Podcasts about Kurzweil

Sit back and relax but pay attention to my conversation with Gee Ranasinha. Gee lives in the Northeast part of France. As he puts it, his marketing experience goes back to the “days of dial-up internet and AOL CDs”. During our conversation Gee tells us how he progressed from working with film, (do you know what that is?), to now working with the most advanced digital and other technological systems.   He is the CEO of his own marketing company KEXINO. He talks a bit about what makes a good marketing firm and why some companies are more successful than others. He says, for example, that most companies do the same things as every other company. While labels and logos may be different, if you cover up the logos the messages and ways to provide them are the same. The successful firms have learned to distinguish themselves by being different in some manner. He practices what he preaches right down to the name of his company, KEXINO. He will tell us where the company name came from. You will see why I says he practices what he preaches.   Gee gives us a great history of a lot of marketing efforts and initiatives. If you are at all involved with working to make yourself or your company successful marketing wise, then what Gee has to say will be especially relevant to you. This is one of those episodes that is worth hearing more than once.     About the Guest:   Gee has been in marketing since the days of dial-up internet and AOL CDs. Today, he's the CEO of KEXINO, a marketing agency and behavioral science practice for small to medium-sized businesses. Over the past 17 years KEXINO has helped over 400 startups and small businesses in around 20 countries grow awareness, reputation, trust - and sales. A Fellow of the Chartered Institute Of Marketing, Gee is also Visiting Professor at two business schools, teaching Marketing and Behavioral Science to final-year MBA students. Outside of work Gee loves to cook, listens to music on a ridiculously expensive hi-fi, and plays jazz piano very badly.    Ways to connect with Gee:   KEXINO website:  https://kexino.com LinkedIn:  https://linkedin.com/in/ranasinha YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/c/Kexino Instagram:  https://instagram.com/wearekexino TikTok:  https://tiktok.com/@kexino Threads: https://www.threads.net/@wearekexino BlueSky:  https://bsky.app/profile/kexino.com     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:16 Well and a gracious hello to you, wherever you may be, you are now listening to an episode of unstoppable mindset. I am your host, Mike or Michael. I don't really care which hingson and our guest today is Gee Ranasinha, who is a person who is very heavily involved in doing marketing and so on. Gee has been marketing for a long time, and reading his bio, he talks about being in marketing since the days of dial up and AOL and CDs. I remember the first time I tried to subscribe to AOL. It was a floppy disk. But anyway, that's okay. The bottom line is that does go back many, many years. That's when we had Rs 232 cables and modems. Now people probably don't mostly know what they are unless they're technically involved and they're all built into the technology that we use. But that's another history lesson for later. So Gee, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. This should be a fun subject and thing to talk about.   Gee Ranasinha ** 02:27 Well, thank you very much for inviting me, Michael, I do. I do appreciate it.   Michael Hingson ** 02:31 Well, I'm looking forward to it and getting a chance to talk. And love to hear some of your your old stories about marketing, as well as the new ones, and of course, what lessons we learned from the old ones that helped in the new ones. And of course, I suspect there'll also be a lot of situations where we didn't learn the lessons that we should have, which is another story, right?   Gee Ranasinha ** 02:50 Yeah, history does tend to repeat itself, unfortunately, and   Michael Hingson ** 02:55 that usually happens because we don't pay attention to the lessons.   Gee Ranasinha ** 02:59 Yeah, yeah, we, we, I think we think we know better. But I mean, it's, it's, it's funny, because, you know, if you look at other other industries, you know, if, if you want to be an architect, right, you would certainly look back to the works of, you know, Le Corbusier or Frank Lloyd Wright or Renzo Piano, or, you know, some of the great architects, and you would look back on their work, look how they did it. And you would, you know, turn back the the annals of history to to see what had gone before. But for some reason, in our industry, in marketing, we we don't think we can learn from the lessons that our erstwhile peers have had in the past, and we've so as a result, we tend to sort of rename things that have gone before, so that the newer generation of marketers will actually pay attention to them. So we give things new names. But actually, if you, if you scratch the surface and look a little bit deeper. It's actually nothing new at all. And I don't quite know why that is. I think people think that they know better than the people who've gone before them, because of the technology, because you know so much of the execution the promotion side of marketing is technology based. They I'm guessing that people don't see a relevance to what happened in the past because of the technology aspect being different, right? But what I contend is that the the essence. Of marketing is about understanding human behavior and their reactions to particular inputs, impulses, right? Um, in which case, we have plenty to learn from the people who've you know, who've walked in our in the walk this path before, and we should be a little bit, maybe a little bit more humble and open minded into accepting that we don't know everything, and we maybe don't even know what we don't know.   Michael Hingson ** 05:36 I always remember back in what was it, 1982 or 1983 we had a situation here in the United States where somebody planted some poison in a bottle of Tylenol in a drug store. I remember that, yeah, and within a day, the president of the company came out and said, This is what we're going to do to deal with it, including taking all the bottles of all the pills off the shelves until we check them over and make sure everyone is clean and so on. And he got right out in front of it. And I've seen so many examples since of relatively similar kinds of crises, and nobody takes a step to take a firm stand about how we're going to handle it, which is really strange, because clearly what he did really should have taught us all a lesson. Tylenol hasn't gone away, the company hasn't gone away, and the lesson should be that there is relevance in getting out in front of it and having a plan. Now I don't know whether he or anyone really had a plan in case something happened. I've never heard that, but still whatever he got right out in front of it and addressed it. And I just really wish more marketing people, when there is a crisis, would do more of that to instill confidence in consumers.   Gee Ranasinha ** 07:07 He did the right thing, right? He did, he did what you or I would have done, or we would like to think we would have done in this place, right? I, I'm, I'm guessing it was probably, not the favorite course of action, if this had been debated at board stroke shareholder level. But like I said, he he did what we all think we would have done in his place. He did the right thing. And I think that there are many instances today, more instances today than maybe in the past, where the actions of an individual they are. An individual has more freedom of expression in the past than they've had in the in the present, and they don't have to mind their P's and Q's as much. I mean, sure we know we're still talking about profit making organizations. You know, we're living in a pseudo capitalist, Neo liberal society. But surely we're still there still needs to be some kind of humanity at the end of this, right? You know, reputations take years, decades, sometimes, to build, and they can be knocked down very quickly, right, right? There's so I think some somebody, somebody, somebody a lot older and wiser than me, well, certainly wiser older. Said a brand's reputation was like a tree. It takes ages to grow, but can be knocked down very quickly, and there are plenty. You know, history is littered with examples of of organizations who haven't done the right thing.   Speaker 1 ** 09:16 Well, the Yeah, go ahead. No, go ahead. Tell me   Michael Hingson ** 09:20 the I observed this actually not too long ago, on a podcast, this whole discussion to someone, and they made an interesting point, which I think is probably relevant, which is, today we have a different environment, because we have social media. We have so many things, where communications go so quickly, and we we see so many people putting out information right or wrong, conspiracy or not, about anything and everything that comes up, that it causes people maybe to hesitate a little bit more to. Truly study what they want to say, because everyone's going to pick up on it. But at the same time, and I appreciate that at the same time, I think there are basic marketing principles. And as you point out, and as you're well aware, there is such a thing as human behavior, and while people want instant gratification, and they want to know right now what happened 20 minutes ago. The reality is we're not necessarily going to get that. The media doesn't help because they want to put everything out and get the story. But still, the reality is human nature is human nature, and ultimately, Truth will win out. And what we need to do is to really work more toward making sure that that happens.   Gee Ranasinha ** 10:48 I, I actually don't agree with that. Okay, in in, you know, in the, in the with the greatest respect, firstly, I think, I think as a cop out to use social media, information channels, news cycles, that sort of thing, because, if anything, because of the pace of the news cycle and The, you know, the fire hose of social media today, me, we're in a better position to say what we mean and not regret it, because it's forgotten it 20 minutes. Yeah, so it works, it's, it's an argument for what we're talking about not, not against   Michael Hingson ** 11:41 it, yeah. I agree. Yeah, go ahead,   Gee Ranasinha ** 11:45 yeah. And the second thing you said, truth will out. And I think truth does not without and there are plenty of people who continue to spout out misinformation and disinformation, yeah, constantly at every level of corporate at a corporate level, at a political level, at a geopolitical level, or at a local level, right? I don't want to sort of go down that rabbit hole, right, but there are, there are plenty of misquotes, myths, truths, which are never, never withdrawn and never counted, never excused and live out there in the ether, in perpetuity.   Michael Hingson ** 12:35 Yeah, it's true, but I also think that in the end, while some people continue to put their inaccurate information out, I think there are also others who have taken the time, or do take the time they put out more relevant information, and probably in the long run, more people buy into that than to misinformation. I'm not going to say it's a perfect world, but I think more often than not, enough positive information comes out that people eventually get more of the right answer than all the yammering and bad information. But it may take time.   Gee Ranasinha ** 13:18 I would love to believe that, Mike, I really would maybe I'm just too cynical, right?   Michael Hingson ** 13:27 I hear you, I hear you, and you know, I don't know I could be just as wrong. I mean, in the United States today, we've got a government with people who are definitely talking about things and saying things that most of us have always felt are untrue, but unfortunately, they're being said and pushed in such a way that more people are not opposing them. And how quickly that will change remains to be seen. And for all I know, and I think, for all I know, maybe some of what they're saying might be right, but we'll see.   Gee Ranasinha ** 14:05 I think that's the issue. I mean, I, as I said, I don't really want to jump down that politics rabbit hole, but no, not really. I think, you know, the issue is, if you say a lie enough times, people believe it. Yeah, right, yeah. And the fact that nobody's fact checking this stuff, I'm like, I said. I'm not. I'm not singling out politics. I'm singling out messaging in its widest in its widest interpretation, right, false messaging of any sort, if left unchecked. Yeah. Correct. I think the people who know an alternative reality or know that it's a lie know that it's an untruth by not publicly facts checking it, by not calling these. People out are complicit in spreading the lie.   Michael Hingson ** 15:03 Yeah, well, I think that's true, and you're right. It doesn't matter whether it's politics. It doesn't matter whether it's well, whatever it is, it's anything. And I think there's one of the beauties of of our country, your country. And I didn't explain at the beginning that G is in the you said, northwest part of France, right? Northeast, northeast, well, east, west, northeast part   Gee Ranasinha ** 15:29 of Yeah, well, near enough, you know, if you go, if you go, if you go east, far enough times you get, you get to West Anyway, don't you? Well, you get back where you started. Or maybe you don't, I don't know if, depends who you listen   Michael Hingson ** 15:39 to, right? If the Earth is flat. Well, even the Flat Earthers have had explanations for why the earth is flat and people don't fall off, but that's okay, but yeah, so northeast part of France and and I hear, I hear what you're saying, and I think it's important that people have the freedom to be able to fact check, and I, and I hope, as we grow more people will find the value of that, but that in all aspects, but that remains to be seen.   Gee Ranasinha ** 16:14 Well, I think especially in you know, perversely, now that we have the ability to check the veracity of a piece of information a lot easier, right? Almost in real time. Yeah. I think the fact that we can means that we don't, you know, you probably know the quote by what was his name? Edwin Burke, who may or may not have said that, you know, evil triumphs when good men do nothing or something like that. Along that sort of lines, some people say that he didn't say that. He did say, it doesn't matter who said it, right? It's a great quote. It's a great quote. It's a great quote. And that's what I mean about being complicit, just by the fact of not calling this stuff out, feeds the fire. Yeah, to the to the point where it becomes and especially, I'm talking with people who maybe are a little bit younger and haven't and are more likely to believe what they see on screens of whatever size, simply because it's in the public domain, um, whereas The older strokes more cynical of us may may question a lot more of what's thrown in front of our eyes. So I think all of us have a responsibility, which I don't think all of us understand the power that we yield or we're afraid to or afraid to? Yeah, absolutely.   Michael Hingson ** 18:08 So tell me a little about kind of the early Gee growing up and so on, and how you got into this whole idea and arena of marketing and so on.   Gee Ranasinha ** 18:18 Well before this, I was the CMO of a software company. I was there for seven years, and before that, I was working for a company in London, working with in the print and publishing industries. So I've been around media for most of my working life, and after, after being at the software company for seven years, sort of hit a little bit of a ceiling, really. I mean, the company was a small company, and it could only grow at a certain rate, and so I wasn't really being challenged anymore. I had to wait a little bit until the company could fill the bigger shoes that had been given, if you like. You know, I mean growing pains. It's very common for companies of all sizes to go through this sort of thing. So to be honest, I probably was treading water a bit too long. But you know, you get you get complacent, don't you, you get comfortable in in the, you know the corporate job, and you know a salary at the at the end of every month, and you know corporate travel and company BMWs and expense accounts and all of that sort of trappings. And you know, I, I fell for all of that. You. Um, but I finally realized that something needed to happen. So at the end of 2007 beginning of 2008 Me and a couple of colleagues decided to start the agency, which, as you will remember, 2008 was not exactly the best time to start a marketing agency. Good time to start any agency,   Michael Hingson ** 20:29 to be honest. The other hand, there were a lot of opportunities. But yeah, I hear you. Well, yeah,   Gee Ranasinha ** 20:34 glass half full. Glass half empty, right? Yeah. But you know, luckily, with with a number of very, very supportive clients in those early days, you know, we weathered the post recession? Yeah, slow down. And 17 and a half years later, here we are. We've now. We started off with three. We were three. We're now 19. We're in nine countries. Nine of us were in the US. The rest are in Europe, South Africa, Japan, and two people in Australia. That's that, that's, that's who we are. So, you know, we're a a team of marketing, creative and business development specialists, and we work with startups and small businesses primarily in the US, even though we're based all over the place, and we combine marketing strategy, proper strategy, with a thing called behavioral science, which works with organizations to increase their awareness, their reputation, their trust, and most of all, of course, sales Right? Because sales is name of the game. Sales is what it's all about. So yeah, I'd say probably 80, 90% of our clients are in the US and, well, certainly North America anyway, and it's all sorts of industries, all sorts of sizes. We've we've got, we certainly had in the past. You know, solopreneur type businesses, small businesses and larger businesses, up to around 40 to 50 mil to revenue that sort of size, anything bigger they usually have, usually got, you know, quite well, working teams within the organization. So we're, you know, the amount of effective contribution that we can add to that is, it's obviously going to be as a percentage, much lower. So it's, it's, it's really for that, that smaller sized profile of organization, and it's not sort of limited by particular industry or category. We've, you know, we work with all sorts. We've worked in sports, healthcare, FinTech, medical, professional services, software, publishing, all sorts, right across the board.   Michael Hingson ** 23:34 What got you started in marketing in the beginning, you you know you were like everyone else. You were a kid and you grew up and so on. What? What really made you decide that this was the kind of career you wanted?   Gee Ranasinha ** 23:46 Marketing wasn't my first career. I've had a few others in the past. I actually started off my first first company, and I founded, way back when was a media production company. I was a professional photographer, advertising photographer, working with advertising agencies as well as direct corporate commissions. This is in the days of film. This was way before digital image capture.   Michael Hingson ** 24:20 So this is going back to what the 1980s   Gee Ranasinha ** 24:23 it's going to late 80s to early 90s. Yeah, and I was working with eight by 10 and four by five view cameras, sometimes called plate cameras. It was mainly studio stuff. I was happier in the studio that we did location stuff as well. But studio was where I was happiest because I could control everything. I suppose I'm on control freak at the end of the day. So I can control every highlight, every nuance, every every part of the equation. And. And and that's where I started. And then after doing that for a while, I came I got involved with professional quality digital image capture. Is very, very it is very, very beginning. And was instrumental in the the adoption of digital image capture for larger print and publishing catalog fashion houses who were looking for a way to streamline that production process, where, obviously, up until then, the processing of film had been a bottleneck, right? You couldn't, you couldn't process film any quicker than the film needed to be processed, right the the e6 process, which was the the term for using a bunch of chemicals to create slides, die, positives, transparencies. I think it used to take like 36 minutes plus drying time. So there was a, you know, close to an hour wait between shooting and actually seeing what what the result was. And that time frame could not be reduced up until that point in time, the quality of digital image capture systems wasn't really all of that, certainly wasn't a close approximation to what you could get with with film at The time, until a number of manufacturers working with chip manufacturers, were able to increase the dynamic range and the the total nuances that you could capture on digital Of course, the problem at that time was we were talking about what, what were, What today is not particularly large, but was at the time in terms of file sizes, and the computers of the day would be struggling to deal with images of that high quality, so It was always a game of catch up between the image capture hardware and the computer hardware needed to to view and manipulate the image and by manipulate it was more more manipulation in terms of optimizing the digital file for reproduction in print, because obviously that was the primary carrier of, yeah, of the information. It was for use in some kind of printed medium. It wasn't like we were doing very much with with email or websites or anything else in the in the early 90s. So the conversion process to optimize a digital image captured file, to give the best possible tonal reproduction on printed material has always been a little bit of a black art, even when we when we were digitizing transparency films, going to digital image capture made things a lot more predictable, but it also increased the computational power needed, number one, but also for photographers to actually understand a little bit more about the photo mechanical print process, and there were very few photographers who understood both, both sides of the fence. So I spent a lot of time being a pom pom girl. Basically Mike. I was, I was, I was waving the pom poms and preaching large about the benefits of digital image capture and how and educating the industries, various in photographic industries, about, you know, possible best practices. There weren't any sort of standards in place at the time,   Michael Hingson ** 29:41 and it took a while for people to really buy into that they weren't visionary enough to understand what you were saying. I bet   Gee Ranasinha ** 29:48 Well, we were also taught very few were enough, and there were two reasons. One of them was financially based, because. We were talking about a ton of money, yeah, to do this properly, we were talking about a ton of money. Just the image capture system would easily cost you 50 grand. And this, you know this, this was in the days when 50 grand was a lot of money,   Michael Hingson ** 30:18 yeah, well, I remember my first jobs out of college were working with Ray Kurzweil, who developed Omni font, optical character recognition system. Oh, my goodness me, I did not know that. And the first machine that he put out for general use, called the Kurzweil data entry machine, was only $125,000 it worked. It still took a while to make it to truly do what it needed to do, but still it was. It was the first machine, and a lot of people just didn't buy into it. It took a while to get people to see the value of why digitizing printed material was so relevant, some lawyers, Some law firms, some banks and so on, caught on, and as people realized what it would do, then they got interested. But yeah, it was very expensive,   Gee Ranasinha ** 31:14 very expensive. And I think the other reason for the reticence is just nature, to be honest. Mike, I mean, you know, as as people, as human beings, most of us are averse to change, right? Because change is an unknown, and we don't like unknowns. We like predictability. We like knowing that when we get up in the morning, the sun's gonna come up and we're gonna go through our our usual routine, and so when something comes along that up ends the status quo to the point where we need to come up with adopting new behaviors that's very uncomfortable for many people. And you know, the adoption of digitization in, you know, any industry, I think, in everybody who's worked in any particular industry has has plenty of anecdotal evidence to show how people would consciously or unconsciously dragging their feet to adopt that change because they were happier doing stuff that they knew,   Michael Hingson ** 32:32 who went out of their comfort zone, right?   Gee Ranasinha ** 32:35 Absolutely, it's natural, it's, it's, it's who we are as as as human beings, who most of us are as human beings with, obviously, we're talking about the middle of the bell curve here. I mean, there are plenty of wackos on either side just go out and do stuff, right? And, you know those, you know, some of those get, you know, locked up with in straight jackets. But the other ones tend to, sort of, you know, create true innovation and push things forward.   Michael Hingson ** 33:04 Steve Jobs, even Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, good examples of some of the people who did things that most people didn't think could be done.   Gee Ranasinha ** 33:18 You know, the true innovation always happens at the periphery, but we tend to over emphasize the median. We know we try to make averages of everything, yeah, but averages aren't what moves the needle, right? No. And you know Britain, you know, for even for marketing, obviously, that's very much, very, very much my sort of thing. Um, most organizations, most business owners, certainly most marketing managers, find comfort in in executing their marketing in ways in which they are comfortable, in ways which are somewhat expected within the industry. But the problem is, it doesn't get you noticed. It doesn't get you attention. If you're in the middle, right? You know the worst, the worst place to walk on the in the street is in the middle of the road right, pick a side, but don't walk in the middle.   34:27 Not a good idea yet.   Gee Ranasinha ** 34:30 That's our our job is to is to, number one, generate attention, because there's no way we can communicate a message unless we have someone's attention. Everything starts from the attention side of things. Now there are very, you know, various ways that we can attract attention, but attention needs to come and needs to come from somewhere. And you know the definite. Of creating attention is to to create some kind of visual, audio, or combination of the two, experience which is somewhat outside of the norm, and create some kind of emotional response that our brains want to pay attention to, right? Want to notice? Because if you're not noticed, then there's no it doesn't matter how great your product is, doesn't matter how wonderful your customer service is, or it's available in 27 colors, or it's free delivery, or what you know, all the rest of it doesn't matter, because you know, unless people know who you are, what you do, who it's for, and why they should give a crap, then you know anything else you do after that Time is is moot, is irrelevant.   Michael Hingson ** 36:00 I read an interesting email this morning from someone who was talking about why speakers don't tend to be as successful as they should be. And this person talked about you could have the greatest speech in the world. You could be   Michael Hingson ** 36:17 talking and getting standing ovations and so on, but you're not getting a lot of speaking engagements, and his comment was the reason you're not is that your talk isn't necessarily relevant. I thought that was interesting. I think there's some things to be said for relevance, but I think it's also that you're not helping to get people to think and realize that being different and getting people to think and value that is more important than we tend to want to recognize as well.   Gee Ranasinha ** 36:59 I would, I would, I would wholeheartedly agree relevance is a very important component. But, you know, I maintain that it starts with attention. Yeah, relevance, I think, within the speaking world, I yes, there's so much we can do with relevance by by coming at a subject matter topic from a totally different perspective. Yeah, right. You know, just because you have the same message as 100 other competitors doesn't mean they have to say something in the same way, right? And so even if the core message is similar, the way that we choose to present that can be, you know, 100 101 different ways. And I think that is something that we forget, and I think that's one of the reasons why so much of the marketing that we see today is ignored. Yeah, you know, there's a there's a marketing Well, I wouldn't say the marketing model. There's a communication model, okay? Sales model actually called Ada, Ida, a, I D, A, okay. So even if you've not, not worked in sales or marketing at all, if you've even seen the film Glengarry Glynn Ross, or the play that it was based on. It's actually playing in New York City at the moment. I believe, yeah, a, I D, A, which is tracking the customer experience in four steps. So the idea is you have awareness, interest, desire and action, right? A, I, D, A, and it's understanding that there are four steps to getting to the position of negotiating the deal with a prospective buyer, but number one starts with awareness. You know they need, they need to be aware that you exist and nobody's going to buy from you if they don't know who you are. They need to know who they need to know who you are before they'll buy from you. Right then obviously needs to be an interest a product market fit what you're selling is something that they could conceivably use in terms of solving a particular problem that they perceive as having the desire. Why should they buy from you, as opposed to somebody else? Why do they. Need to buy your product, as opposed to a competitive product, and then finally, action, right? So that's what we might call sales, activation or performance marketing, or, you know, sales in the old terms, right? As they would say in that film, it's getting the getting the buyer to sign on the line that is dotted. But all of this stuff starts with attention and when we're not doing a very good job, I think as a mark, as an industry, we used to be really good at it, but I think we've taken our eye off the ball somewhat, and hoped that technology would fill in the gaps of our incompetence at being able to, excuse me, being able to shape the way that we market to customers, to buyers, in ways which create the memory structures in the brain to a sufficiently acute level so that when they are in The position to buy something, they think of us, as well as probably a number a handful of other suitors that solve their problem. And this is why, I think this is the reason why, because of the over reliance of technology, I mean, this is the reason why so much of our marketing fails to generate interest, sales to generate the tangible business results that are expected of it. Because we're, we're marketing by bullet point. We're expecting buyers to buy off a fact sheet. We've, we've exercised the creativity out of the equation. And we're and, and we were just producing this vacuous, generic vanilla   Michael Hingson ** 42:12 musach, yeah, if you   Gee Ranasinha ** 42:14 like, Okay, I mean, again, you know, think of any particular industry, you can see this. It's pretty much endemic. You can have two totally different organizations selling something purportedly solving the same problem. And you can look at two pieces of you can look at a piece of marketing from each company. And if you covered up the logo of each person of each company's marketing output, 10 will get you five that what's actually contained in the messaging is as equally valid for company A as it is for Company B, and that's a real problem.   Michael Hingson ** 43:00 It's not getting anyone's attention or creating awareness.   Gee Ranasinha ** 43:03 It's not creating attention or awareness. And worse, it's creating a level of confusion in the buyer's mind. Because we're we're looking for comparisons, we're looking at a way to make an educated decision compared to something else, and if we can't see why product A is miles ahead in our minds of Company B or product B, what often happens is rather than make a wrong decision, because we can't clearly differentiate the pros and cons between the two products, what we end up doing is nothing. We walk away. We don't buy anything, because we can't see a clear winner, which impacts company A and company B, if not the entire industry. And then they turn around and say, Oh, well, nobody's buying. Why? Why? Why is our industry lagging behind so many others? It's because we're just on autopilot, creating this, this nonsense, this generic sea of sameness in terms of communication, which we just don't seem to have a grip on the fundamental understanding of how people buy stuff anymore. We used to Yeah, up and up and up until probably the 90s. We used to know all this stuff. We used to know how get people going, how to stand out, how to create differentiated messaging, how to understand. Or what levers we could pull to better invoke an emotional reaction in the minds of the target buying audience that we're looking to attract. And then for some for, you know the if we plotted these things around two curves, you know, the point at which these curves would cross would probably be the adoption of technology,   Michael Hingson ** 45:29 whereas we came to reproduce the same thing in different ways, but you're still producing the same thing. The technology has limited our imagination, and we don't use re imaginations the way we used to.   Gee Ranasinha ** 45:43 We we've we're using, we're using technology as a proxy for reach. And getting in front of 1000 eyeballs or a million eyeballs or 100 million eyeballs doesn't necessarily mean any of those eyeballs are fit in the ideal customer profile we're looking to attract. Right? More doesn't mean better, and what what we're doing is we're trying to use technology to to fill in the gaps, but technology doesn't understand stuff like human emotion, right, and buying drivers and contextual messaging, right? Because all of this stuff human behavior is totally contextual, right? I will, I will come up with a and I'm sure you're the same thing. You will have a particular point of view about something one day and the next, the very next day, or even the very next hour, you could have a totally different viewpoint on a particular topic, maybe because you've had more information, or just maybe for the for the hell of it, right? We know we are we are not logical, rational, pragmatic machines that always choose the best in inverted commas solution to our issue.   Michael Hingson ** 47:23 Do you think AI will help any of this?   Gee Ranasinha ** 47:29 I think AI will help in terms of the fact that it will show how little we know about human behavior, and so will force forward thinking, innovative marketers to understand the only thing that matters, which is what's going on between the ears of the people we're trying to attract. I think AI is already showing us what we don't know, not what we know,   Michael Hingson ** 48:04 right? And it's still going to be up to us to do something about that and use AI as a tool to help possibly create some of what needs to be done. But it still requires our thought processes ultimately, to make that happen,   Gee Ranasinha ** 48:23 AI can't create. All AI can do is remix what has already been in existence, right? Ai doesn't create what AI does. The thing is, we're using AI for the wrong stuff. AI is really good at a ton of things, and it sucks big time at a load of other things. But for some reason, we want to throw all our efforts in trying to make it better at the things it's not good at, rather than use it at the things that it's really, really good   Michael Hingson ** 49:04 at, such as,   Gee Ranasinha ** 49:08 such as interpreting large data sets, Creating models of financial models, marketing models, marketing matrix, matrices, spotting, spotting trends in data, large, huge, like huge models of data, which no human being could really, in reality, Make any head in the tail of finding underlying commonalities in in the data to be able to create from that, to be able to draw out real, useful insights on that data to create new. New messaging, innovative products, services that we haven't thought of before because we haven't been able to see the wood for the trees,   50:13 if you like, yeah, right   Gee Ranasinha ** 50:17 for that sort of stuff, for the grunt work, for the automation. You know, do this, then do this, and all of that sort of stuff, A, B, testing, programmatic stuff, all of that stuff, banner ads and, you know, modifying banner all of that stuff is just basic grunt work that nobody needs, needs to do, wants to do, right? Give it all to AI it. Most AI is doing it, most of it anyway. We just never called it AI. You know, we've been doing it for 25 years. We just called it software in those days, right? But it's the same. It's the same goddamn thing. Is what we were doing, right? Let it do all of that stuff, because it's far better. And let's focus on the stuff that it can't do. Let's find out about what levers we need to pull at an emotional level to create messaging that better resonates in the minds of our buyers. That's what we need to do. Ai can't do that stuff right.   Michael Hingson ** 51:16 Where I think AI is is helpful today, as opposed to just software in the past, is that it has been taught how better to interact with those who use it, to be able to take questions and do more with it, with them than it used to be able to do, but we still have to come up with the problems or the issues that we wanted to solve, and to do it right, we have to give it a fair amount of information which, which still means we've got to be deeply involved in the process.   Gee Ranasinha ** 51:53 I mean, where it's great. I mean, if we're looking at, you know, Text, type, work, right, right, or I, or ideas or possibilities, or actually understanding the wider consideration set of a particular problem is that the hardest thing is, when you're staring at a blank piece of paper, isn't it? Right? We don't need that's the hardest thing, right? So we don't need to stare at a blank sheet anymore with a flashing cursor, right? You know, we can engage in a pseudo conversation that we need to take into consideration that this conversation is taking place based upon previous, existing ideas. So the chance that we'll get something fresh and original is very, very small. And as you just mentioned, you know, the quality of the prompt is everything. Get the prompt wrong and without enough granularity, details, specificity, whatever else you get just a huge piece of crap, don't you? Right? So in other words, having a better understanding of how we as humans make decisions actually improves our prompting ability, right, right?   Michael Hingson ** 53:12 And I think AI, it is not creative, but I think that AI can spew is probably the wrong word, but AI can put out things that, if we think about it, will cause us to do the creating that we want, but it's still going to be assets involved in doing that.   Gee Ranasinha ** 53:35 The problem is, and what we're seeing, certainly in the last couple of months, maybe even longer, maybe I just haven't noticed. It is just we were, you know, there's this old saying, you know, just because you can doesn't mean you should, right? I just see an absolute tsunami of vacuous, generic nonsense being spouted out across all types of channels, digital and otherwise, but mainly digital, all of it AI generated. Sometimes it's images, sometimes it's videos, sometimes it's both, sometimes it's text, whatever. But we we're adding to the noise instead of adding to the signal. So the inevitable result of all of this is going to be numbness. We're going to becoming different to marketing of all sorts, the good stuff as well as the bad. You're going to be it's we're just gonna get numb. So it's going to make the attention stuff. That's why I've been banging on about attention all this time, right? It's gonna, it's, yeah, there's, see, there is a method to my madness here. So the the point is that creation and maintaining. Attention is going to be even harder than it would have been before. Yeah, and, and we, you know, we're getting to the point where, you know, you've got agentic AI, where you've got agents talking to other agents and going around in this feedback loop. But we're not, we're not, we're not creating any emotional engagement from a, from a from a buyer perspective, from a user perspective, yes, it all looks great. And as a, as an exercise in technology, it's fantastic. So wonderful, right? But how has it increased sales? That's what I want to know has has it reduced or altered the cost of acquiring a customer and maintaining that customer relationship, because that's where the rubber hits the road. That's all that matters. I don't care whether it's a technological masterpiece, right, but if it hasn't sold anything, and actual sales, I'm not talking about likes and comments and retweets and all of that crap, because that's vanity metrics. Is nonsense   Michael Hingson ** 56:11 signing a contract. It's, you know,   Gee Ranasinha ** 56:16 there needs to be as an exchange of money at some point in time. Yeah, right. Is that happening? And I contend that it's not. And I think there are loads of people, loads of business owners, who are throwing money at this in the vain hope they you know that basically they're playing the numbers. They just need one horse to come in, 100 to one to be able to justify what they've spent on all of this stuff, right? Yeah, but I think those odds are getting longer and longer as each month goes, yeah. Well, you I think there's going to be an inevitable backlash back to stuff that actually resonates with people at a human level, at an emotional level, a psychological level, it has to   Michael Hingson ** 57:08 you started your marketing company 17 and a half years ago, caxino. Where'd that name come from?   Gee Ranasinha ** 57:18 From nothing? Okay, it doesn't mean anything I needed. I needed to have something which number one, that the domain was available. Of course, I needed to have something which was short, something that didn't mean, you know, something incongruous in another language and and so after a lot of to ing and fro ing, there were two schools of thought. At the beginning, we didn't know whether to go with something abstract, like caxino or something which was, you know, based based upon the the butting up of two existing words you know, like you see, you know, so many times, you know, big red table, or, you know, whatever. So we did, we decided to go with something abstract, so that we weren't encumbered by language.   Michael Hingson ** 58:22 You practiced what you preach pretty much. You're different, yeah, but why don't you call it? You don't refer to it as a digital marketing agency. Why is that?   Gee Ranasinha ** 58:34 No, I don't see us as a digital marketing agency, because digital marketing is not all we do. And not only that, I think, Well, I think there's, there's a number of reasons. Number one, I think we're using the word digital is, is a curveball. Firstly, because everything that we do is digital, right? Everything is already digital. Print is digital, TV is digital, billboards are digital. So saying digital is like saying electrical, electrical marketing agency, it makes as much sense to be honest. So that's number one. But I think the bigger issue is that by categorizing a marketing agency as being a digital marketing agency does a disservice to its work and indeed its outlook, because The object is not to be digital in your marketing, it's to do marketing in a digital world, which are two very different positions, okay? Because digital, the way that we're talking about it, is not a attributive noun, and it's certainly not an adjective. You. In the context that we're talking about it, digital is a channel. It's simply one way of getting in front of our audience. But it's not the only way of getting in front of our audience. Okay? So, yeah, along with many other reputable agencies, we happen to use the most appropriate channel of communication that makes sense to address a particular target audience group, and that's it. Okay, if that's digital, great. If that's walking down the street with an A frame with something written on the front of it, that's also great, okay, but it's, it's, it's not about it's not about the channel. It's about you being in the places where our target target audience group expects us to be. And so that's why I don't think of us as a digital marketing agency, because digital is only part of what we do, right? And we do many other things. And also, I think it puts it, it puts blinkers on things right? Because if you know, supposing, supposing you go to a Facebook marketing agency, of which there are many. Now, if you go to a Facebook marketing agency and you say, Okay, I want to do some ads. Where should I advertise? What are they going to tell you? Right, maybe Facebook, right? So there's, there's a thing called Maslow's hammer. Okay, in Maslow, as in the hierarchy, the Hierarchy of Needs Maslow. Okay to say, Maslow. He came up with this idea of Maslow's hammer. It's also known as the law of the instrument. And basically what it means, we can distill it down, is, if all you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail, okay? And what that means is, you're looking to solve any problem that comes along by the tools that you have in your toolbox, regardless of whether that's the best way of moving forward, which I think is a very short term and myopic view. So that's why we we don't like to think of ourselves as the marketing agency, because there are many other there are many ways of solving a particular problem, and it doesn't necessarily have to be   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:50 digital,   Gee Ranasinha ** 1:02:51 digital or promotional or, you know, it's, it's like, you know, are we a video marketing agency? No. Does that mean we don't do video, not at all. Of course, we do it, right? We're not an AI marketing agency, right? In the same way, okay, when we're not a we're not a YouTube marketing agency,   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:11 you're a marketing agency. We're a marketing agency, right? What are some of the biggest mistakes that small businesses make when it comes to marketing?   Gee Ranasinha ** 1:03:21 I think the single biggest mistake, and I speak to business owners pretty much on a daily basis, right? I think the single biggest issue that comes up again and again and again is something which I call self diagnosis, which is the business owner, approaches the marketing agency, or even digital marketing agency, approaches the marketing agency, and says, You know what, I need you to do this for me. Whatever that this is, okay. So you know, maybe it's some digital ads, maybe it's some videos, maybe it's a website, maybe it's a whatever. It doesn't matter what it is, but basically, the business owner is coming to us, coming to the marketing agency, dictating what the tactic is to be, which presumes a number of things, not least, that they think they have come to the conclusion that this particular tactic is going to solve their marketing problem based upon usually waving a wet finger in the air, yeah, or they've seen a YouTube video or something, okay, it's not based on any marketing knowledge experience or education, because, with the greatest respect, these people do not have any marketing knowledge experience. Into education, right? And why would they? Because they're running a business, right? They don't, you know, they it doesn't mean that they've had to do this marketing stuff. So they're, they're, they're presuming that a particular tactic is going to solve a business problem, a marketing tactic is going to solve a business problem. And so what what happens is the the particular tactic is is executed. Nothing changes revenue wise. And so the business owner says, well, that marketing agency was crap. Let's go to another marketing agency and ask them to do something else. So it's playing pin the tail on the donkey. Really, just trying stuff and hoping so. The point is that. The point is that if you're going to pay somebody who does this for a living, the idea that you know more than they do is already setting the relationship on a uneven kill, right? Yeah, you know, if I, if I go, if I go and see my doctor, and I say, and I wake up in the morning and I've got a pain in my chest, and I thinking, oh my goodness, I go and see the doctor, right? So on the way to the doctor's office, I do the worst thing possible, which is go on the internet and say, Okay, what does pain in my chest mean? Right? And I go into the doctor's office, and I sit down and I say, Okay, I've got a pain in my chest, doctor, that means I've got angina. Can you give me some heart medication, please? What's the doctor gonna tell you? Doctor's gonna tell you, shut the hell up. Yeah, I'm the doctor in the office. I'm the actually, where's, Where's, where's your medical degree doesn't exist, does it? No, and   Michael Hingson ** 1:07:00 just because you have a broken rib, we're not going to talk about that. Are we right?   Gee Ranasinha ** 1:07:04 So, What? What? So what's the doctor going to do? The doctor is going to ask you a bunch of questions, right? What did you do the last couple of days? Right? What did you eat? Did you go to the gym and over exert yourself? What's your history? Do you is there a history of heart disease in the family, you know, maybe there's is going to he or she is going to take some blood, maybe they're going to run a few other sort of tests. They're going to do a diagnosis, and at the end of this diagnosis, the doctor is going to come back to you and say, You know what? So, based upon all the questions that you've kindly answered, and based upon the blood work and all these other tests and scans we've done, it turns out that the the pain in your chest is nothing to do with angina. The reason you got a pain in the chest is because you had some spicy food last night. So you don't have you don't have Anjali, you have gas. Yeah, right, right, so I prescribe you a couple of packs of Tums. Yeah, sorted, right. And that's the point. The point is the doctor knows what he or she is doing, and you have to have confidence in that particular medical practitioner to diagnose the issue and prescribe a solution to that issue, right? Your job is not to say what you think is wrong with you at this stage of the conversation. Your job is to tell me where it hurts. That's it right now, I'll come back to you with a list of things which I think we need to do to move forward. Now you can go and get a second opinion, just like at a doctor's office. You may think I'm full of crap, which is absolutely your prerogative. Or you may say, I know better than you. I'm going to do my own thing, which, again, it's your time Absolutely. But if it all goes to crap, you can't turn around and say, well, if only this person had said this, or, you know, If only, if only, if only, and play the victim, because that's also just not going to wash. And I see this time and time and time again. You know, we've tried, well, we've tried a number of different agencies, and none of them have been able to help us. And then you sort of dig a bit deeper, and it's because they're never allowed to do what they're supposed to do, because they've always been second guessed. Yeah, that is probably the single biggest issue that I see coming up again and again and again with small business in market now, if and if it's a question of not having faith in that. Uh, agency, then you shouldn't have been employed. You shouldn't have that agency in the first place.   Michael Hingson ** 1:10:05 Get a second opinion.   Gee Ranasinha ** 1:10:07 You know, not all, not all agencies are great, just like not all plumbers are great. Not all mechanics are great. Same thing, right? It takes time to find the good ones, right? Um, but just because you found a bad one, because I don't know they were cheap, or they were local, or they were whatever, you know, whatever, whatever criteria you tend to use to base your decision upon, right? You can't, you can't criticize what they did if you didn't allow them to do what they were actually being paid to do.   Michael Hingson ** 1:10:47 Well, speaking of that, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that?   Gee Ranasinha ** 1:10:53 Best way to get hold of me. Gee is on LinkedIn. I spend most of my time on LinkedIn. I post twice a week. I post videos about some of the sorts of things that we've been talking about today, and they're only sort of 60 seconds long, 90 seconds long. It's not sort of taking up anybody's time very much. You can find me there. Would you believe, Mike, there is only 1g runner scene on LinkedIn. Can you imagine fortuitous? How fortuitous is   Michael Hingson ** 1:11:27 that? Yeah, really, and G is spelled G, E, and how do you spell your last name?   Gee Ranasinha ** 1:11:33 You could eat. I'm sure all of this still, the stuff will be put in. It will, but I just figured it we could. But yeah. G, renasina, you can find me there. Otherwise, obviously you can find us on Kexino, k, e, X, I, N, o.com, which is the website, and there's plenty of information there textual information, there are videos, there are articles, there are all sorts of bits and pieces that you can find more about us   Michael Hingson ** 1:12:04 there. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful, and I really appreciate you taking more than an hour to chat with us today. And I hope this was fun, and I hope that people will appreciate it and will reach out to you and value what we've discussed. I think it's been great love to hear from all of you out there. Please feel free to email me. Michael H, i@accessibe.com so that's m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, and love to hear from you wherever you're listening. Please give us a five star rating. We value those ratings very highly, and we'd love to to to hear and see you rate us and get your thoughts. If you know of anyone else who might be a good guest for unstoppable mindset. Gu as well, we'd sure appreciate your referring them to us. Introduce us. We're always looking for more people to to chat with, so please do that and again, gee, I just want to thank you one more time for being here. This has been great,   Gee Ranasinha ** 1:13:02 absolute pleasure, delighted to be invited.   Michael Hingson ** 1:13:10 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Matt Forbeck is all that and so much more. He grew up in Wisconsin as what he describes as a wimpy kid, too short and not overly healthy. He took to gaming at a pretty early age and has grown to be a game creator, author and award-winning storyteller.   Matt has been designing games now for over 35 years. He tells us how he believes that many of the most successful games today have stories to tell, and he loves to create some of the most successful ones. What I find most intriguing about Matt is that he clearly is absolutely totally happy in his work. For most of Matt's career he has worked for himself and continues today to be an independent freelancer.   Matt and his wife have five children, including a set of quadruplets. The quadruplets are 23 and Matt's oldest son is 28 and is following in his father's footsteps.   During our conversation we touch on interesting topics such as trust and work ethics. I know you will find this episode stimulating and worth listening to more than once.     About the Guest:   Matt Forbeck is an award-winning and New York Times-bestselling author and game designer of over thirty-five novels and countless other books and games. His projects have won a Peabody Award, a Scribe Award, and numerous ENnies and Origins Awards. He is also the president of the Diana Jones Award Foundation, which celebrates excellence in gaming.    Matt has made a living full-time on games and fiction since 1989, when he graduated from the Residential College at the University of Michigan with a degree in Creative Writing. With the exception of a four-year stint as the president of Pinnacle Entertainment Group and a year and a half as the director of the adventure games division of Human Head Studios, he has spent his career as an independent freelancer.   Matt has designed collectible card games, roleplaying games, miniatures games, board games, interactive fiction, interactive audiobooks, games for museum installations, and logic systems for toys. He has directed voiceover work and written short fiction, comic books, novels, screenplays, and video game scripts and stories. His work has been translated into at least 15 languages.   His latest work includes the Marvel Multiverse Role-Playing Game Core Rulebook, the Spider-Verse Expansion, Monster Academy (novels and board game), the Shotguns & Sorcery 5E Sourcebook based on his novels, and the Minecraft: Roll for Adventure game books. He is the father of five, including a set of quadruplets. He lives in Beloit, Wisconsin, with his wife and a rotating cast of college-age children. For more about him and his work, visit Forbeck.com.   Ways to connect with Matt:   Twitter: https://twitter.com/mforbeck Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/forbeck Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/forbeck.com Threads: https://www.threads.net/@mforbeck Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mforbeck/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/forbeck/ Website: https://www.forbeck.com/     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset today. We get to play games. Well, not really, but we'll try. Our guest is Matt Forbeck, who is an award winning author. He is a game designer and all sorts of other kinds of things that I'm sure he's going to tell us about, and we actually just before we started the the episode, we were talking about how one might explore making more games accessible for blind and persons with other disabilities. It's, it's a challenge, and there, there are a lot of tricks. But anyway, Matt, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here.   Matt Forbeck ** 02:02 Well, thank you, Michael for inviting me and having me on. I appreciate it.   Speaker 1 ** 02:06 I think we're going to have a lot of fun, and I think it'll work out really well. I'm I am sure of that. So why don't we start just out of curiosity, why don't you tell us kind of about the early Matt, growing up?   Matt Forbeck ** 02:18 Uh, well, I grew up. I was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I grew up in a little town called Beloit, Wisconsin, which actually live in now, despite having moved away for 13 years at one point, and I had terrible asthma, I was a sick and short kid, and with the advent of medication, I finally started to be healthy when I was around nine, and Part of that, I started getting into playing games, right? Because when you're sick, you do a lot of sitting around rather than running around. So I did a lot of reading and playing games and things like that. I happen to grow up in the part of the world where Dungeons and Dragons was invented, which is in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, about 30 miles from where I live. And because of that I was I started going to conventions and playing games and such, when I was about 12 or 13 years old. I started doing it when I was a little bit older. I started doing it professionally, and started doing it when I was in college. And amazingly enough, even to my own astonishment, I've made a career out of it.   Speaker 1 ** 03:17 Where did you go to college? I went to the University   Matt Forbeck ** 03:21 of Michigan over in Ann Arbor. I had a great time there. There's a wonderful little college, Beloit College, in my hometown here, and most of my family has gone to UW Milwaukee over the years. My parents met at Marquette in Milwaukee, but I wanted to get the heck out of the area, so I went to Michigan, and then found myself coming back as soon as we started having   Speaker 1 ** 03:42 kids well, and of course, I would presume that when you were at the University of Michigan, you rooted for them and against Ohio State. That was   Matt Forbeck ** 03:50 kind of, you know, if you did it the other way around, they back out of town. So, yeah, I was always kind of astonished, though, because having grown up in Wisconsin, where every sports team was a losing team when I was growing up, including the Packers, for decades. You know, we were just happy to be playing. They were more excuse to have beers than they were to cheer on teams. And I went to Michigan where they were, they were angry if the team wasn't up by two touchdowns. You know, at any point, I'm like, You guys are silly. This is we're here for fun.   Speaker 1 ** 04:17 But it is amazing how seriously some people take sports. I remember being in New Zealand helping the Royal New Zealand Foundation for the Blind. Well now 22 years ago, it's 2003 and the America's Cup had just finished before we got there, and in America beat New Zealand, and the people in New Zealand were just irate. They were complaining that the government didn't put enough money into the design of the boat and helping with the with the yacht and all that. It was just amazing how seriously people take it, yeah,   Matt Forbeck ** 04:58 once, I mean, it becomes a part of your. Identity in a lot of ways, right for many people, and I've never had to worry about that too much. I've got other things on my mind, but there you go.   Speaker 1 ** 05:08 Well, I do like it when the Dodgers win, and my wife did her graduate work at USC, and so I like it when the Trojans win, but it's not the end of the world, and you do need to keep it in perspective. I I do wish more people would I know once I delivered a speech in brether County, Kentucky, and I was told that when I started the speech had to end no later than preferably exactly at 6:30pm not a minute later, because it was the night of the NCAA Basketball Championship, and the Kentucky Wildcats were in the championship, and at 630 everyone was going to get up and leave and go home to watch the game. So I ended at 630 and literally, by 631 I timed it. The gym was empty and it was full to start with.   Matt Forbeck ** 06:02 People were probably, you know, counting down on their watches, just to make sure, right?   Speaker 1 ** 06:06 Oh, I'm sure they were. What do you do? It's, it is kind of fun. Well, so why did you decide to get started in games? What? What? What attracted to you, to it as a young person, much less later on?   Matt Forbeck ** 06:21 Well, I was, yeah, I was an awkward kid, kind of nerdy and, you know, glasses and asthma and all that kind of stuff. And games were the kind of thing where, if you didn't know how to interact with people, you could sit down at a table across them and you could practice. You can say, okay, we're all here. We've got this kind of a magic circle around us where we've agreed to take this one silly activity seriously for a short period of time, right? And it may be that you're having fun during that activity, but you know, there's, there's no reason that rolling dice or moving things around on a table should be taken seriously. It's all just for fun, right? But for that moment, you actually just like Las Vegas Exactly, right? When there's money on the line, it's different, but if you're just doing it for grins. You know, it was a good way for me to learn how to interact with people of all sorts and of different ages. And I really enjoyed playing the games, and I really wanted to be a writer, too. And a lot of these things interacted with story at a very basic level. So breaking in as a writer is tough, but it turned out breaking as a game designer, wasn't nearly his stuff, so I started out over there instead, because it was a very young field at the time, right? D and D is now 50 years old, so I've been doing this 35 years, which means I started around professionally and even doing it before that, I started in the period when the game and that industry were only like 10 or 15 years old, so yeah, weren't quite as much competition in those   Speaker 1 ** 07:43 days. I remember some of the early games that I did play, that I could play, were DOS based games, adventure. You're familiar with adventure? Yeah, oh, yeah. Then later, Zork and all that. And I still think those are fun games. And I the reason I like a lot of those kinds of games is they really make you think, which I think most games do, even though the video even the video games and so on, they they help your or can help your reactions, but they're designed by people who do try to make you think,   Matt Forbeck ** 08:15 yeah. I mean, we basically are designing puzzles for people to solve, even if they're story puzzles or graphic puzzles or sound puzzles or whatever, you know, even spatial puzzles. There the idea is to give somebody something fun that is intriguing to play with, then you end up coming with story and after that, because after a while, even the most most exciting mechanics get dull, right? I mean, you start out shooting spaceships, but you can only shoot spaceships for so long, or you start out playing Tetris, and you only put shapes together for so long before it doesn't mean anything that then you start adding in story to give people a reason to keep playing right and a reason to keep going through these things. And I've written a lot of video games over the years, basically with that kind of a philosophy, is give people nuggets of story, give them a plot to work their way through, and reward them for getting through different stages, and they will pretty much follow you through anything. It's amazing.   Michael Hingson ** 09:09 Is that true Dungeons and Dragons too?   Matt Forbeck ** 09:13 It is. All of the stories are less structured there. If you're doing a video game, you know you the team has a lot of control over you. Give the player a limited amount of control to do things, but if you're playing around a table with people, it's more of a cooperative kind of experience, where we're all kind of coming up with a story, the narrator or the Game Master, the Dungeon Master, sets the stage for everything, but then the players have a lot of leeway doing that, and they will always screw things up for you, too. No matter what you think is going to happen, the players will do something different, because they're individuals, and they're all amazing people. That's actually to me, one of the fun things about doing tabletop games is that, you know, the computer can only react in a limited number of ways, whereas a human narrator and actually change things quite drastically and roll. With whatever people come up with, and that makes it tremendous fun.   Speaker 1 ** 10:04 Do you think AI is going to enter into all that and maybe improve some of the   Matt Forbeck ** 10:09 old stuff? It's going to add your end to it, whether it's an ad, it's going to approve it as a large question. Yeah. So I've been ranting about AI quite a bit lately with my friends and family. But, you know, I think the problem with AI, it can be very helpful a lot of ways, but I think it's being oversold. And I think it's especially when it's being oversold for thing, for ways for people to replace writers and creative thinking, Yeah, you know, you're taking the fun out of everything. I mean, the one thing I like to say is if, if you can't be bothered to write this thing that you want to communicate to me, I'm not sure why I should be bothered to read this thing well.   Speaker 1 ** 10:48 And I think that AI will will evolve in whatever way it does. But the fact of the matter is, So do people. And I think that, in fact, people are always going to be necessary to make the process really work? AI can only do and computers can only do so much. I mean, even Ray Kurzweil talks about the singularity when people and computer brains are married, but that still means that you're going to have the human element. So it's not all going to be the computer. And I'm not ready to totally buy into to what Ray says. And I used to work for Ray, so I mean, I know Ray Well, but, but the but the bottom line is, I think that, in fact, people are always going to be able to be kind of the, the mainstay of it, as long as we allow that, if we, if we give AI too much power, then over time, it'll take more power, and that's a problem, but that's up to us to deal with?   Matt Forbeck ** 11:41 No, I totally agree with that. I just think right now, there's a very large faction of people who it's in their economic interest to oversell these things. You know, people are making chips. They're building server farms. A lot of them are being transferred from people are doing blockchain just a few years ago, and they see it as the hot new thing. The difference is that AI actually has a lot of good uses. There's some amazing things will come out of llms and such. But I again, people are over the people are selling this to us. Are often over promising things, right?   Speaker 1 ** 12:11 Yeah, well, they're not only over promising but they're they're really misdirecting people. But the other side of it is that, that, in fact, AI as a concept and as a technology is here, and we have control over how we use it. I've said a couple times on this this podcast, and I've said to others, I remember when I first started hearing about AI, I heard about the the fact that teachers were bemoaning the pack, that kids were writing their papers just using AI and turning them in, and it wasn't always easy to tell whether it was something that was written by AI or was written by the student. And I come from a little bit different view than I think a lot of people do. And my view basically is, let the kids write it if with AI, if that's what they're going to do, but then what the teacher needs to do is to take one period, for example, and give every student in that class the opportunity to come up and defend whatever paper they have. And the real question is, can they defend the paper? Which means, have they really learned the subject, or are they just relying on AI,   Matt Forbeck ** 13:18 yeah, I agree with that. I think the trouble is, a lot of people, children, you know, who are developing their abilities and their morals about this stuff, they use it as just a way to complete the assignment, right? And many of them don't even read what they turn in, right, right? Just know that they've got something here that will so again, if you can't be bothered to read the thing that you manufactured, you're not learning anything about it,   Speaker 1 ** 13:39 which is why, if you are forced to defend it, it's going to become pretty obvious pretty fast, whether you really know it or not. Now, I've used AI on a number of occasions in various ways, but I use it to maybe give me ideas or prepare something that I then modify and shape. And I may even interact with AI a couple of times, but I'm definitely involved with the process all the way down the line, because it still has to be something that I'm responsible for.   Matt Forbeck ** 14:09 I agree. I mean, the whole point of doing these things is for people to connect with each other, right? I want to learn about the ideas you have in your head. I want to see how they jive with ones in my head. But if I'm just getting something that's being spit out by a machine and not you, and not being curated by you at any point, that doesn't seem very useful, right? So if you're the more involved people are in it, the more useful it is.   Speaker 1 ** 14:31 Well, I agree, and you know, I think again, it's a tool, and we have to decide how the tool is going to be used, which is always the way it ought to be. Right?   Matt Forbeck ** 14:42 Exactly, although sometimes it's large corporations deciding,   Speaker 1 ** 14:45 yeah, well, there's that too. Well, individuals,   Matt Forbeck ** 14:49 we get to make our own choices. Though you're right,   Speaker 1 ** 14:51 yes, and should Well, so, so when did you start bringing writing into what you. Did, and make that a really significant part of what you did?   Matt Forbeck ** 15:03 Well, pretty early on, I mean, I started doing one of the first things I did was a gaming zine, which was basically just a print magazine that was like, you know, 32 pages, black and white, about the different tabletop games. So we were writing those in the days, design and writing are very closely linked when it comes to tabletop games and even in video games. The trick of course is that designing a game and writing the rules are actually two separate sets of skills. So one of the first professional gig I ever had during writing was in games was some friends of mine had designed a game for a company called Mayfair games, which went on to do sellers of contain, which is a big, uh, entry level game, and but they needed somebody to write the rules, so they called me over, showed me how to play the game. I took notes and I I wrote it down in an easy to understand, clear way that people had just picked up the box. Could then pick it up and teach themselves how to play, right? So that was early on how I did it. But the neat thing about that is it also taught me to think about game design. I'm like, when I work on games, I think about, who is this game going to be for, and how are we going to teach it to them? Because if they can't learn the game, there's no point of the game at all, right?   Speaker 1 ** 16:18 And and so I'm right? I'm a firm believer that a lot of technical writers don't do a very good job of technical writing, and they write way over people's heads. I remember the first time I had to write, well, actually, I mentioned I worked for Kurzweil. I was involved with a project where Ray Kurzweil had developed his original omniprent optical character recognition system. And I and the National Federation of the Blind created with him a project to put machines around the country so that blind people could use them and give back to Ray by the time we were all done, recommendations as to what needed to go in the final first production model of the machine. So I had to write a training manual to teach people how to use it. And I wrote this manual, and I was always of the opinion that it had to be pretty readable and usable by people who didn't have a lot of technical knowledge. So I wrote the manual, gave it to somebody to read, and said, Follow the directions and and work with the machine and all that. And they did, and I was in another room, and they were playing with it for a couple of hours, and they came in and they said, I'm having a problem. I can't figure out how to turn off the machine. And it turns out that I had forgotten to put in the instruction to turn off the machine. And it wasn't totally trivial. There were steps you had to go through. It was a Data General Nova two computer, and you had to turn it off the right way and the whole system off the appropriate way, or you could, could mess everything up. So there was a process to doing it. So I wrote it in, and it was fine. But, you know, I've always been a believer that the textbooks are way too boring. Having a master's degree in physics, I am of the opinion that physics textbook writers, who are usually pretty famous and knowledgeable scientists, ought to include with all the text and the technical stuff they want to put in, they should put in stories about what they did in you bring people in, draw them into the whole thing, rather than just spewing out a bunch of technical facts.   Matt Forbeck ** 18:23 No, I agree. My my first calculus professor was a guy who actually explained how Newton and Leipzig actually came up with calculus, and then he would, you know, draw everything on the board and turn around say, and isn't that amazing? And you were, like, just absolutely enamored with the idea of how they had done these things, right? Yeah. And what you're doing there, when you, when you, when you give the instructions to somebody and say, try this out. That's a very big part of gaming, actually, because what we do this thing called play testing, where we take something before it's ready to be shown to the public, and we give it to other people and say, try this out. See how it works. Let me know when you're starting out of your first playing you play with like your family and friends and people will be brutal with you and give you hints about how you can improve things. But then, even when you get to the rules you're you send those out cold to people, or, you know, if you're a big company, you watch them through a two way mirror or one way mirror, and say, Hey, let's see how they react to everything. And then you take notes, and you try to make it better every time you go through. And when I'm teaching people to play games at conventions, for instance, I will often say to them, please ask questions if you don't understand anything, that doesn't mean you're dumb. Means I didn't explain it well enough, right? And my job as a person writing these rules is to explain it as well as I humanly can so it can't be misconstrued or misinterpreted. Now that doesn't mean you can correct everything. Somebody's always got like, Oh, I missed that sentence, you know, whatever. But you do that over and over so you can try to make it as clear and concise as possible, yeah.   Speaker 1 ** 19:52 Well, you have somewhat of a built in group of people to help if you let your kids get involved. Involved. So how old are your kids?   Matt Forbeck ** 20:03 My eldest is 26 he'll be 27 in January. Marty is a game designer, actually works with me on the marble tabletop role playing game, and we have a new book coming out, game book for Minecraft, called Minecraft role for adventure, that's coming out on July 7, I think, and the rest of the kids are 23 we have 423 year olds instead of quadruplets, one of whom is actually going into game design as well, and the other says two are still in college, and one has moved off to the work in the woods. He's a very woodsy boy. Likes to do environmental education with people.   Speaker 1 ** 20:39 Wow. Well, see, but you, but you still have a good group of potential game designers or game critics anyway.   Matt Forbeck ** 20:47 Oh, we all play games together. We have a great time. We do weekly game nights here. Sometimes they're movie nights, sometimes they're just pizza nights, but we shoot for game and pizza   Speaker 1 ** 20:56 if we get lucky and your wife goes along with all this too.   Matt Forbeck ** 21:00 She does. She doesn't go to the game conventions and stuff as much, and she's not as hardcore of a gamer, but she likes hanging out with the kids and doing everything with us. We have a great time.   Speaker 1 ** 21:10 That's that's pretty cool. Well, you, you've got, you've got to build an audience of some sorts, and that's neat that a couple of them are involved in it as well. So they really like what dad does, yeah,   Matt Forbeck ** 21:23 yeah. We, I started taking them each to conventions, which are, you know, large gatherings gamers in real life. The biggest one is Gen Con, which happens in Indianapolis in August. And last year, I think, we had 72,000 people show up. And I started taking the kids when they were 10 years old, and my wife would come up with them then. And, you know, 10 years old is a lot. 72,000 people is a lot for a 10 year old. So she can mention one day and then to a park the next day, you know, decompress a lot, and then come back on Saturday and then leave on Sunday or whatever, so that we didn't have them too over stimulated. But they really grown to love it. I mean, it's part of our annual family traditions in the summer, is to go do these conventions and play lots of games with each other and meet new people too well.   Speaker 1 ** 22:08 And I like the way you put it. The games are really puzzles, which they are, and it's and it's fun. If people would approach it that way, no matter what the game is, they're, they're aspects of puzzles involved in most everything that has to do with the game, and that's what makes it so fun.   Matt Forbeck ** 22:25 Exactly, no. The interesting thing is, when you're playing with other people, the other people are changing the puzzles from their end that you have to solve on your end. And sometimes the puzzle is, how do I beat this person, or how do I defeat their strategy, or how do I make an alliance with somebody else so we can win? And it's really always very intriguing. There's so many different types of games. There's nowadays, there's like something like 50 to 100 new board games that come out and tabletop games every month, right? It's just like a fire hose. It's almost like, when I was starting out as a novelist, I would go into Barnes and Noble or borders and go, Oh my gosh, look at all these books. And now I do the same thing about games. It's just, it's incredible. Nobody, no one person, could keep up with all of them.   Speaker 1 ** 23:06 Yeah, yeah, yeah, way too much. I would love to explore playing more video games, but I don't. I don't own a lot of the technology, although I'm sure that there are any number of them that can be played on a computer, but we'll have to really explore and see if we can find some. I know there are some that are accessible for like blind people with screen readers. I know that some people have written a few, which is kind of cool. Yeah.   Matt Forbeck ** 23:36 And Xbox has got a new controller out that's meant to be accessible to large amount of people. I'm not sure, all the different aspects of it, but that's done pretty well, too   Speaker 1 ** 23:44 well. And again, it comes down to making it a priority to put all of that stuff in. It's not like it's magic to do. It's just that people don't know how to do it. But I also think something else, which is, if you really make the products more usable, let's say by blind people with screen readers. You may be especially if it's well promoted, surprised. I'm not you necessarily, but people might well be surprised as to how many others might take advantage of it so that they don't necessarily have to look at the screen, or that you're forced to listen as well as look in order to figure out what's going on or take actions.   Matt Forbeck ** 24:29 No, definitely true. It's, you know, people audio books are a massive thing nowadays. Games tend to fall further behind that way, but it's become this incredible thing that obviously, blind people get a great use out of but my wife is addicted to audio books now. She actually does more of those than she does reading. I mean, I technically think they're both reading. It's just one's done with yours and one's done with your eyes.   Speaker 1 ** 24:51 Yeah, there's but there's some stuff, whether you're using your eyes or your fingers and reading braille, there's something about reading a book that way that's. Even so a little bit different than listening to it. Yeah, and there's you're drawn in in some ways, in terms of actually reading that you're not necessarily as drawn into when you're when you're listening to it, but still, really good audio book readers can help draw you in, which is important, too,   Matt Forbeck ** 25:19 very much. So yeah, I think the main difference for reading, whether it's, you know, again, through Braille or through traditional print, is that you can stop. You can do it at your own pace. You can go back and look at things very easily, or read or check things, read things very easily. That you know, if you're reading, if you're doing an audio book, it just goes on and it's straight on, boom, boom, boom, pace. You can say, Wait, I'm going to put this down here. What was that thing? I remember back there? It was like three pages back, but it's really important, let me go check that right.   Speaker 1 ** 25:50 There are some technologies that allow blind people and low vision people and others, like people with dyslexia to use an audio book and actually be able to navigate two different sections of it. But it's not something that is generally available to the whole world, at least to the level that it is for blind people. But I can, I can use readers that are made to be able to accept the different formats and go back and look at pages, go back and look at headings, and even create bookmarks to bookmark things like you would normally by using a pen or a pencil or something like that. So there are ways to do some of that. So again, the technology is making strides.   Matt Forbeck ** 26:37 That's fantastic. Actually, it's wonderful. Just, yeah, it's great. I actually, you know, I lost half the vision of my right eye during back through an autoimmune disease about 13 years ago, and I've always had poor vision. So I'm a big fan of any kind of way to make things easier,   Speaker 1 ** 26:54 like that. Well, there, there are things that that are available. It's pretty amazing. A guy named George curser. Curser created a lot of it years ago, and it's called the DAISY format. And the whole idea behind it is that you can actually create a book. In addition to the audio tracks, there are XML files that literally give you the ability to move and navigate around the book, depending on how it's created, as final level as you choose.   Matt Forbeck ** 27:25 Oh, that's That's amazing. That's fantastic. I'm actually really glad to hear that.   Speaker 1 ** 27:28 So, yeah, it is kind of fun. So there's a lot of technology that's that's doing a lot of different sorts of things and and it helps. But um, so for you, in terms of dealing with, with the games, you've, you've written games, but you've, you've actually written some novels as well, right?   Matt Forbeck ** 27:50 Yeah, I've got like 30, it depends on how you count a novel, right? Okay, like some of my books are to pick a path books, right? Choose Your Own Adventure type stuff. So, but I've got 35 traditional novels written or more, I guess, now, I lost track a while ago, and probably another dozen of these interactive fiction books as well. So, and I like doing those. I've also written things like Marvel encyclopedias and Avengers encyclopedias and all sorts of different pop culture books. And, you know, I like playing in different worlds. I like writing science fiction, fantasy, even modern stuff. And most of it, for me comes down to telling stories, right? If you like to tell stories, you can tell stories through a game or book or audio play or a TV show or a comic, or I've done, you know, interactive museum, games and displays, things like that. The main thing is really a story. I mean, if you're comfortable sitting down at a bar and having a drink with somebody, doesn't have to be alcohol, just sitting down and telling stories with each other for fun. That's where the core of it all is really   Speaker 1 ** 28:58 right. Tell me about interactive fiction book.   Matt Forbeck ** 29:01 Sure, a lot of these are basically just done, like flow charts, kind of like the original Zork and adventure that you were talking about where you I actually, I was just last year, I brought rose Estes, who's the inventor of the endless quest books, which were a cross between Dungeons and Dragons, and choose your own adventure books. She would write the whole thing out page by page on a typewriter, and then, in order to shuffle the pages around so that people wouldn't just read straight through them, she'd throw them all up in the air and then just put them back in whatever order they happen to be. But essentially, you read a section of a book, you get to the end, and it gives you a choice. Would you like to go this way or that way? Would you like to go beat up this goblin? Or would you like to make friends with this warrior over here? If you want to do one of these things, go do page xx, right? Got it. So then you turn to that page and you go, boom, some, actually, some of the endless quest books I know were turned into audio books, right? And I actually, I. Um, oddly, have written a couple Dungeons and Dragons, interactive books, audio books that have only been released in French, right? Because there's a company called Looney l, u n, i, i that has this little handheld device that's for children, that has an A and a B button and a volume button. And you, you know, you get to the point that says, if you want to do this, push a, if you want to do that, push B, and the kids can go through these interactive stories and and, you know, there's ones for clue and Dungeons and Dragons and all sorts of other licenses, and some original stories too. But that way there's usually, like, you know, it depends on the story, but sometimes there's, like, 10 to 20 different endings. A lot of them are like, Oh no, you've been killed. Go back to where you started, right? And if you're lucky, the longer ones are, the more fun ones. And you get to, you know, save the kingdom and rescue the people and make good friends and all that good stuff,   Michael Hingson ** 30:59 yeah, and maybe fall in love with the princess or Prince.   Matt Forbeck ** 31:02 Yeah, exactly right. It all depends on the genre and what you're working in. But the idea is to give people some some choices over how they want the story to go. You're like, Well, do you want to investigate this dark, cold closet over here, or would you rather go running outside and playing around? And some of them can seem like very innocent choices, and other ones are like, well, uh, 10 ton weight just fell on. You go back to the last thing.   Speaker 1 ** 31:23 So that dark hole closet can be a good thing or a bad thing,   Matt Forbeck ** 31:28 exactly. And the trick is to make the deaths the bad endings, actually just as entertaining as anything else, right? And then people go, Well, I got beat, and I gotta go back and try that again. So yeah, if they just get the good ending all the way through, they often won't go back and look at all the terrible ones. So it's fun to trick them sometimes and have them go into terrible spots. And I like to put this one page in books too that sometimes says, How did you get here? You've been cheating there. This book, this page, is actually not led to from any other part of the book. You're just flipping   Speaker 1 ** 31:59 through. Cheater, cheater book, do what you   Matt Forbeck ** 32:04 want, but if you want to play it the right way, go back.   Speaker 1 ** 32:07 Kid, if you want to play the game. Yeah, exactly. On the other hand, some people are nosy.   Matt Forbeck ** 32:15 You know, I was always a kid who would poke around and wanted to see how things were, so I'm sure I would have found that myself but absolutely related, you know,   Speaker 1 ** 32:23 yeah, I had a general science teacher who brought in a test one day, and he gave it to everyone. And so he came over to me because it was, it was a printed test. He said, Well, I'm not going to give you the test, because the first thing it says is, read all the instructions, read, read the test through before you pass it, before you take it. And he said, most people won't do that. And he said, I know you would. And the last question on the test is answer, only question one.   Matt Forbeck ** 32:55 That's great. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah,   Speaker 1 ** 32:57 that was cute. And he said, I know that. I that there's no way you would, would would fall for that, because you would say, Okay, let's read the instructions and then read the whole test. That's what it said. And the instruction were, just read the whole test before you start. And people won't do that.   Matt Forbeck ** 33:13 No, they'll go through, take the whole thing. They get there and go, oh, did I get there? Was a, there's a game publisher. I think it was Steve Jackson Games, when they were looking for people, write for them, or design stuff for them, or submit stuff to them, would have something toward the end of the instructions that would say, put like a the letter seven, or put seven a on page one right, and that way they would know if you had read the instructions, if you hadn't bothered to Read the instructions, they wouldn't bother reading anything else.   Speaker 1 ** 33:42 Yeah, which is fair, because the a little harsh, well, but, but, you know, we often don't learn enough to pay attention to details. I know that when I was taking physics in college, that was stressed so often it isn't enough to get the numbers right. If you don't get the units right as well. Then you're, you're not really paying attention to the details. And paying attention to the details is so important.   Matt Forbeck ** 34:07 That's how they crash from those Mars rovers, wasn't it? They somebody messed up the units, but going back and forth between metric and, yeah, and Imperial and, well, you know, it cost somebody a lot of money at one point. Yeah. Yeah. What do you   Speaker 1 ** 34:21 this is kind of the way it goes. Well, tell me, yeah. Well, they do matter, no matter what people think, sometimes they do matter. Well, tell me about the Diana Jones award. First of all, of course, the logical question for many people is, who is Diana Jones? Yeah, Diana Jones doesn't exist, right? That's There you go. She's part game somewhere? No, no, it doesn't be in a game somewhere.   Matt Forbeck ** 34:43 Then now there's actually an author named Diana Wynne Jones, who's written some amazing fantasy stories, including Howell's Moving Castle, which has turned into a wonderful anime movie, but it has nothing to do with her or any other person. Because originally, the Diana Jones award came about. Because a friend of mine, James Wallace, had somehow stumbled across a trophy that fell into his hands, and it was a pub trivia trophy that used to be used between two different gaming companies in the UK, and one of those was TSR, UK, the United Kingdom department. And at one point, the company had laid off everybody in that division just say, Okay, we're closing it all down. So the guys went and burned a lot of the stuff that they had, including a copy of the Indiana Jones role playing game, and the only part of the logo that was left said Diana Jones. And for some reason, they put this in a in a fiberglass or Plexiglas pyramid, put it on a base, a wooden base, and it said the Diana Jones award trophy, right? And this was the trophy that they used they passed back and forth as a joke for their pub trivia contest. Fell into James's hands, and he decided, You know what, we're going to give this out for the most excellent thing in gaming every year. And we've now done this. This will be 25 years this summer. We do it at the Wednesday night before Gen Con, which starts on Thursday, usually at the end of July or early August. And as part of that, actually, about five years ago, we started, one of the guys suggested we should do something called the emerging designers program. So we actually became a 501, c3, so we could take donations. And now we take four designers every year, fly them in from wherever they happen to be in the world, and put them up in a hotel, give them a badge the show, introduce them to everybody, give them an honorarium so they can afford to skip work for a week and try to help launch their careers. I mean, these are people that are in the first three years of their design careers, and we try to work mostly with marginalized or et cetera, people who need a little bit more representation in the industry too. Although we can select anybody, and it's been really well received, it's been amazing. And there's a group called the bundle of holding which sells tabletop role playing game PDFs, and they've donated 10s of 1000s of dollars every year for us to be able to do this. And it's kind of funny, because I never thought I'd be end up running a nonprofit, but here I'm just the guy who writes checks to the different to the emerging designer program. Folks are much more tied into that community that I am. But one of the real reasons I wanted to do something like that or be involved with it, because if you wander around with these conventions and you notice that it starts getting very gray after a while, right? It's you're like, oh, there's no new people coming in. It's all older people. I we didn't I didn't want us to all end up as like the Grandpa, grandpa doing the HO model railroad stuff in the basement, right? This dying hobby that only people in their 60s and 70s care about. So bringing in fresh people, fresh voices, I think, is very important, and hopefully we're doing some good with that. It's been a lot of fun either way.   Speaker 1 ** 37:59 Well, I have you had some success with it? Yeah, we've   Matt Forbeck ** 38:02 had, well, let's see. I think we've got like 14 people. We've brought in some have already gone on to do some amazing things. I mean, it's only been a few years, so it's hard to tell if they're gonna be legends in their time, but again, having them as models for other people to look at and say, Oh, maybe I could do that. That's been a great thing. The other well, coincidentally, Dungeons and Dragons is having its best 10 year streak in its history right now, and probably is the best selling it's ever been. So coinciding with that, we've seen a lot more diversity and a lot more people showing up to these wonderful conventions and playing these kinds of games. There's also been an advent of this thing called actual play, which is the biggest one, is a group called Critical Role, which is a whole bunch of voice actors who do different cartoons and video games and such, and they play D and D with each other, and then they record the games, and they produce them on YouTube and for podcasts. And these guys are amazing. There's a couple of other ones too, like dimension 20 and glass cannon, the critical role guys actually sold out a live performance at Wembley Arena last summer. Wow. And dimension. Dimension 20 sold out Madison Square Garden. I'm like, if you'd have told me 20 years ago that you know you could sell out an entire rock stadium to have people watch you play Dungeons and Dragons, I would have laughed. I mean, there's no way it would have been possible. But now, you know, people are very much interested in this. It's kind of wild, and it's, it's fun to be a part of that. At some level,   Speaker 1 ** 39:31 how does the audience get drawn in to something like that? Because they are watching it, but there must be something that draws them in.   Matt Forbeck ** 39:39 Yeah, part of it is that you have some really skilled some actors are very funny, very traumatic and very skilled at improvisation, right? So the the dungeon master or Game Master will sit there and present them with an idea or whatever. They come up each with their own characters. They put them in wonderful, strong voices. They kind of inhabit the roles in a way that an actor. A really top level actor would, as opposed to just, you know, me sitting around a table with my friends. And because of that, they become compelling, right? My Marty and my his wife and I were actually at a convention in Columbus, Ohio last weekend, and this group called the McElroy family, actually, they do my brother, my brother and me, which is a hit podcast, but they also do an actual play podcast called The Adventure zone, where they just play different games. And they are so funny. These guys are just some of the best comedians you'll ever hear. And so them playing, they actually played our Marvel game for a five game session, or a five podcast session, or whatever, and it was just stunningly fun to listen to. People are really talented mess around with something that we built right it's very edifying to see people enjoying something that you worked on.   Speaker 1 ** 40:51 Do you find that the audiences get drawn in and they're actually sort of playing the game along, or as well? And may disagree with what some of the choices are that people make?   Matt Forbeck ** 41:02 Oh, sure. But I mean, if the choices are made from a point of the character that's been expressed, that people are following along and they they already like the character, they might go, Oh, those mean, you know that guy, there are some characters they love to hate. There are some people they're they're angry at whatever, but they always really appreciate the actors. I mean, the actors have become celebrities in their own right. They've they sell millions of dollars for the comic books and animated TV shows and all these amazing things affiliated with their actual play stuff. And it's, I think it, part of it is because, it's because it makes the games more accessible. Some people are intimidated by these games. So it's not really, you know, from a from a physical disability kind of point. It's more of a it makes it more accessible for people to be nervous, to try these things on their own, or don't really quite get how they work. They can just sit down and pop up YouTube or their podcast program and listen into people doing a really good job at it. The unfortunate problem is that the converse of that is, when you're watching somebody do that good of a job at it, it's actually hard to live up to that right. Most people who play these games are just having fun with their friends around a table. They're not performing for, you know, 10s of 1000s, if not hundreds of 1000s of people. So there's a different level of investments, really, at that point, and some people have been known to be cowed by that, by that, or daunted by that.   Speaker 1 ** 42:28 You work on a lot of different things. I gather at the same time. What do you what do you think about that? How do you like working on a lot of different projects? Or do you, do you more focus on one thing, but you've got several things going on, so you'll work on something for one day, then you'll work on something else. Or how do you how do you do it all?   Matt Forbeck ** 42:47 That's a good question. I would love to just focus on one thing at a time. Now, you know the trouble is, I'm a freelancer, right? I don't set my I don't always get to say what I want to work on. I haven't had to look for work for over a decade, though, which has been great. People just come to me with interesting things. The trouble is that when you're a freelancer, people come in and say, Hey, let's work on this. I'm like, Yeah, tell me when you're ready to start. And you do that with like, 10 different people, and they don't always line up in sequence properly, right? Yeah? Sometimes somebody comes up and says, I need this now. And I'm like, Yeah, but I'm in the middle of this other thing right now, so I need to not sleep for another week, and I need to try to figure out how I'm going to put this in between other things I'm working on. And I have noticed that after I finish a project, it takes me about a day or three to just jump track. So if I really need to, I can do little bits here and there, but to just fully get my brain wrapped around everything I'm doing for a very complex project, takes me a day or three to say, Okay, now I'm ready to start this next thing and really devote myself to it. Otherwise, it's more juggling right now, having had all those kids, probably has prepared me to juggle. So I'm used to having short attention span theater going on in my head at all times, because I have to jump back and forth between things. But it is. It's a challenge, and it's a skill that you develop over time where you're like, Okay, I can put this one away here and work on this one here for a little while. Like today, yeah, I knew I was going to talk to you, Michael. So I actually had lined up another podcast that a friend of mine wanted to do with me. I said, Let's do them on the same day. This way I'm not interrupting my workflow so much, right? Makes sense? You know, try to gang those all together and the other little fiddly bits I need to do for administration on a day. Then I'm like, Okay, this is not a day off. It's just a day off from that kind of work. It's a day I'm focusing on this aspect of what I do.   Speaker 1 ** 44:39 But that's a actually brings up an interesting point. Do you ever take a day off or do what do you do when you're when you deciding that you don't want to do gaming for a while?   Matt Forbeck ** 44:49 Yeah, I actually kind of terrible. But you know, you know, my wife will often drag me off to places and say we're going to go do this when. Yes, we have a family cabin up north in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan that we go to. Although, you know, my habit there is, I'll work. I'll start work in the morning on a laptop or iPad until my battery runs out, and then I shut it down, put on a charger, and then I go out and swim with everybody for the rest of the day. So it depends if I'm on a deadline or not, and I'm almost always on a deadline, but there are times I could take weekends off there. One of the great things of being a freelancer, though, and especially being a stay at home father, which is part of what I was doing, is that when things come up during the middle of the week, I could say, oh, sure, I can be flexible, right? The trouble is that I have to pay for that time on my weekends, a lot of the time, so I don't really get a lot of weekends off. On the other hand, I'm not I'm not committed to having to work every day of the week either, right? I need to go do doctor appointments, or we want to run off to Great America and do a theme park or whatever. I can do that anytime I want to. It's just I have to make up the time at other points during the week. Does your wife work? She does. She was a school social worker for many years, and now as a recruiter at a local technical college here called Black Hawk tech. And she's amazing, right? She's fantastic. She has always liked working. The only time she stopped working was for about a year and a half after the quads were born, I guess, two years. And that was the only time I ever took a job working with anybody else, because we needed the health insurance, so I we always got it through her. And then when she said, Well, I'm gonna stay home with the kids, which made tons of sense, I went and took a job with a video game company up in Madison, Wisconsin called Human Head Studios for about 18 months, 20 months. And then the moment she told me she was thinking about going back to work, I'm like, Oh, good, I can we can Cobra for 18 months and pay for our own health insurance, and I'm giving notice this week, and, you know, we'll work. I left on good terms that everybody. I still talk to them and whatever, but I very much like being my own boss and not worrying about what other people are going to tell me to do. I work with a lot of clients, which means I have a lot of people telling me what to do. But you know, if it turns out bad, I can walk I can walk away. If it turns out good, hopefully we get to do things together, like the the gig I've been working out with Marvel, I guess, has been going on for like, four years now, with pretty continuous work with them, and I'm enjoying every bit of it. They're great people to work with.   Speaker 1 ** 47:19 Now, you were the president of Pinnacle entertainment for a little while. Tell me about that.   Matt Forbeck ** 47:24 I was, that was a small gaming company I started up with a guy named Shane Hensley, who was another tabletop game designer. Our big game was something called Dead Lands, which was a Western zombie cowboy kind of thing. Oh gosh, Western horror. So. And it was pretty much a, you know, nobody was doing Western horror back in those days. So we thought, Oh, this is safe. And to give you an example of parallel development, we were six months into development, and another company, White Wolf, which had done a game called Vampire the Masquerade, announced that they were doing Werewolf the Wild West. And we're like, you gotta be kidding me, right? Fortunately, we still released our game three months before there, so everybody thought we were copying them, rather than the other way around. But the fact is, we were. We both just came up with the idea independently. Right? When you work in creative fields, often, if somebody wants to show you something, you say, I'd like to look at you have to sign a waiver first that says, If I do something like this, you can't sue me. And it's not because people are trying to rip you off. It's because they may actually be working on something similar, right already. Because we're all, you know, swimming in the same cultural pool. We're all, you know, eating the same cultural soup. We're watching or watching movies, playing games, doing whatever, reading books. And so it's not unusual that some of us will come up with similar ideas   Speaker 1 ** 48:45 well, and it's not surprising that from time to time, two different people are going to come up with somewhat similar concepts. So that's not a big surprise, exactly, but   Matt Forbeck ** 48:56 you don't want people getting litigious over it, like no, you don't be accused of ripping anybody off, right? You just want to be as upfront with people. With people. And I don't think I've ever actually seen somebody, at least in gaming, in tabletop games, rip somebody off like that. Just say, Oh, that's a great idea. We're stealing that it's easier to pay somebody to just say, Yes, that's a great idea. We'll buy that from you, right? As opposed to trying to do something unseemly and criminal?   Speaker 1 ** 49:24 Yeah, there's, there's something to be said for having real honor in the whole process.   Matt Forbeck ** 49:30 Yeah, I agree, and I think that especially if you're trying to have a long term career in any field that follows you, if you get a reputation for being somebody who plays dirty, nobody wants to play with you in the future, and I've always found it to be best to be as straightforward with people and honest, especially professionally, just to make sure that they trust you. Before my quadruplets were born, you could have set your clock by me as a freelancer, I never missed a deadline ever, and since then, I've probably it's a. Rare earth thing to make a deadline, because, you know, family stuff happens, and you know, there's just no controlling it. But whenever something does happen, I just call people up and say, hey, look, it's going to be another week or two. This is what's going on. And because I have a good reputation for completing the job and finishing quality work, they don't mind. They're like, Oh, okay, I know you're going to get this to me. You're not just trying to dodge me. So they're willing to wait a couple weeks if they need to, to get to get what they need. And I'm very grateful to them for that. And I'm the worst thing somebody can do is what do, what I call turtling down, which is when it's like, Oh no, I'm late. And then, you know, they cut off all communication. They don't talk to anybody. They just kind of try to disappear as much as they can. And we all, all adults, understand that things happen in your life. It's okay. We can cut you some slack every now and then, but if you just try to vanish, that's not even possible.   Speaker 1 ** 50:54 No, there's a lot to be there's a lot to be said for trust and and it's so important, I think in most anything that we do, and I have found in so many ways, that there's nothing better than really earning someone's trust, and they earning your trust. And it's something I talk about in my books, like when live with a guide dog, live like a guide dog, which is my newest book, it talks a lot about trust, because when you're working with a guide dog, you're really building a team, and each member of the team has a specific job to do, and as the leader of the team, it's my job to also learn how to communicate with the other member of the team. But the reality is, it still comes down to ultimately, trust, because I and I do believe that dogs do love unconditionally, but they don't trust unconditionally. But the difference between dogs and people is that people that dogs are much more open to trust, for the most part, unless they've just been totally traumatized by something, but they're more open to trust. And there's a lesson to be learned there. No, I   Matt Forbeck ** 52:03 absolutely agree with that. I think, I think most people in general are trustworthy, but as you say, a lot of them have trauma in their past that makes it difficult for them to open themselves up to that. So that's actually a pretty wonderful way to think about things. I like that,   Speaker 1 ** 52:17 yeah, well, I think that trust is is so important. And I know when I worked in professional sales, it was all about trust. In fact, whenever I interviewed people for jobs, I always asked them what they were going to sell, and only one person ever answered me the way. I really hoped that everybody would answer when I said, So, tell me what you're going to be selling. He said, The only thing I have to really sell is myself and my word, and nothing else. It really matters. Everything else is stuff. What you have is stuff. It's me selling myself and my word, and you have to, and I would expect you to back me up. And my response was, as long as you're being trustworthy, then you're going to get my backing all the way. And he was my most successful salesperson for a lot of reasons, because he got it.   Matt Forbeck ** 53:08 Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, I mean, I've worked with people sourcing different things too, for sales, and if you can rely on somebody to, especially when things go wrong, to come through for you. And to be honest with you about, you know, there's really that's a hard thing to find. If you can't depend on your sources for what you're building, then you can't depend on anything. Everything else falls apart.   Speaker 1 ** 53:29 It does. You've got to start at the beginning. And if people can't earn your trust, and you earn theirs, there's a problem somewhere, and it's just not going to work.   Matt Forbeck ** 53:39 Yeah, I just generally think people are decent and want to help. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've had issues. Car breaks down the road in Wisconsin. Here, if somebody's car goes in the ditch, everybody stops and just hauls them out. It's what you do when the quads were born, my stepmother came up with a sign up sheet, a booklet that she actually had spiral bound, that people could sign up every three three hours to help come over and feed and bathe, diaper, whatever the kids and we had 30 to 35 volunteers coming in every week. Wow, to help us out with that was amazing, right? They just each pick slots, feeding slots, and come in and help us out. I had to take the 2am feeding, and my wife had to take the 5am feeding by ourselves. But the rest of the week we had lots and lots of help, and we were those kids became the surrogate grandchildren for, you know, 30 to 35 women and couples really, around the entire area, and it was fantastic. Probably couldn't have survived   Speaker 1 ** 54:38 without it. And the other part about it is that all those volunteers loved it, because you all appreciated each other, and it was always all about helping and assisting.   Matt Forbeck ** 54:48 No, we appreciate them greatly. But you know every most of them, like 99% of them, whatever were women, 95 women who are ready for grandchildren and didn't have them. Had grandchildren, and they weren't in the area, right? And they had that, that love they wanted to share, and they just loved the opportunity to do it. It was, I'm choking up here talking about such a great time for us in   Speaker 1 ** 55:11 that way. Now I'm assuming today, nobody has to do diaper duty with the quads, right?   Matt Forbeck ** 55:16 Not until they have their own kids. Just checking, just checking, thankfully, think we're that is long in our past,   Speaker 1 ** 55:23 is it? Is it coming fairly soon for anybody in the future?   Matt Forbeck ** 55:27 Oh, I don't know. That's really entirely up to them. We would love to have grandchildren, but you know, it all comes in its own time. They're not doing no well. I, one of my sons is married, so it's possible, right? And one of my other sons has a long term girlfriend, so that's possible, but, you know, who knows? Hopefully they're they have them when they're ready. I always say, if you have kids and you want them, that's great. If you have, if you don't have kids and you don't want them, that's great. It's when you cross the two things that,   Speaker 1 ** 55:57 yeah, trouble, yeah, that's that is, that is a problem. But you really like working with yourself. You love the entre

Er ist Philosoph, Geistes- und Religionswissenschaftler sowie Sachbuchautor und Direktor des IKF – Institut für Kommunikation und Führung in Luzern. Und er schrieb in diesem Jahr das Buch: „Informationeller Pragmatismus - Zur Philosophie der digitalen Transformation“ In seinem Buch entwickelt er eine kluge, zugängliche und vor allem hochaktuelle Antwort auf eine Welt, die immer schneller, datengetriebener und gewiss in vielen Fällen auch unübersichtlicher wird. Dabei ist digitale Transformation, ein Ausdruck, der nach viel Technik klingt. Doch was passiert eigentlich auf der Ebene unseres Denkens, unserer Werte, unseres Weltverständnisses? Dazu spreche ich heute mit Prof. Dr. David Krieger. Wir sprechen auch über sein Buch „Informationeller Pragmatismus“, das (so meine Sicht) frischen philosophischen Wind in diese Debatte bringt. Meine Fragen an David Krieger waren (u.a.): 1. Was bedeutet „informationeller Pragmatismus“ und warum brauchen wir gerade heute eine solche Philosophie? 2. Inwiefern unterscheidet sich unser Denken in der digitalen Welt von früheren Zeitaltern? So z.B. dem industriellen oder dem analogen Zeitalter? 3. Was bedeutet digitale Transformation? 4. Wie verändert die digitale Welt unser Selbstverständnis als Menschen? 5. Was macht ein „gutes Leben“ in einer Welt aus, die immer datengetriebener wird? 6. Was bedeutet Freiheit in einer digital vernetzten Welt, in der Algorithmen Entscheidungen mitprägen? 7. Braucht es eine neue Ethik für den digitalen Wandel? 8. Und, wenn Sie an die nächsten 10 bis 20 Jahre denken, welche Entwicklungen bereiten Ihnen Sorgen? 9. Was wäre ein pragmatischer erster Schritt, den jede*r von uns heute gehen kann, um digital bewusster und reflektierter zu leben? Und natürlich beendeten wir den Podcast – as always - mit dem "Kaleidoskop", d.h. ich stelle meinem Gast nicht vollendete Frage-Sätze, die dieser vervollständigen - schnell, intuitiv & kurz … • In einer Welt zu leben, die durch digitale Information geprägt ist … • Die digitale Transformation verändert … • Unsere Vorstellung von Öffentlichkeit und Diskurs verändert sich, wenn Algorithmen … • Der Mensch in der digitalen Welt … • Verantwortung im pragmatischen Umgang mit Informationen … Viel Freude und Kurzweil beim Lauschen & Denken. Herzlichst Ihre Claudia Lutschewitz

Send us a textI'm Gareth, your host of the "Endless Possibilities Podcast," and I'm thrilled to share some incredible highlights from our latest episode featuring the one and only Te'Devan Kriyavan Kurzweil. Te'Devan is a nomadic traveler and the creative mind behind the YouTube channel "The Spiritual Schmuck," where he humorously explores metaphysical phenomena and spiritual practices worldwide. This episode is packed with mind-blowing stories and insights that you won't want to miss!Here are some of the key takeaways and intriguing moments from our conversation:Key Lessons and Ideas:Healing Without Touch: Te'Devan journey began with a knee injury in college that was healed through Tai Chi and Qigong without physical touch. This experience transformed his understanding of energy as a tangible force capable of altering the body.Encounters with Spiritual Teachers: Te'Devan shares his profound experiences with various spiritual teachers, including a Tai Chi Qigong master and the hugging saint Amma, who played pivotal roles in his spiritual awakening.Miraculous Healings: From healing a friend's angina attack to performing energy healing on strangers in New York City, Te'Devan's stories highlight the power of healing energies and the importance of intuition.Humor in Spirituality: Te'Devan's YouTube channel, "The Spiritual Schmuck," blends humor with serious exploration of spiritual phenomena, showing that miracles and laughter can coexist respectfully.Naughty Leaf Readings: Te'Devan delves into the fascinating world of naughty leaf readings, a form of objective mediumship that reveals intimate, specific details about a person's life, offering profound insights and guidance.Curiosities and Intriguing Moments:A Clairvoyant Encounter: Te'Devan encounter with Akon, an elderly Black Cherokee man with extraordinary clairvoyant abilities, is a story that will leave you in awe.Spiritual Adventures in India: From spontaneous meditations at Arunachala to intense energy experiences at Amma's ashram, Te'Devan's travels in India are filled with mystical moments.Psychic Surgeons and Energy Healers: Te'Devan's experiences with psychic surgeons like El Machete in Cuba and Esther Bravo in the Philippines showcase the diverse and miraculous world of spiritual healing.The Power of Intuition: Te'Devan emphasizes the importance of following intuition over intellectualizing experiences, comparing his approach to a baseball player relying on instinct.Tune in to the latest episode of the "Endless Possibilities Podcast" and join us on this fascinating journey of spiritual exploration and discovery.

Der Blick auf die Zukunft – was bringt sie? Eine Frage, die Dr. Ruth Seliger in ihren Büchern und ihrer Tätigkeit als Beraterin häufig bewegt. Als Begleiterin von Veränderungs-, Lern- und Entwicklungsprozessen in Organisationen - Wirtschaftsunternehmen, öffentlichen Einrichtungen, NGO's hatte und hat Dr. Ruth Seliger Möglichkeiten, dazu beizutragen, neue Perspektiven und Lösungen zu erarbeiten. Für ihre Arbeit war und ist ihr wichtig, eine Theoretikerin mit Liebe zur Praxis und eine Praktikerin mit Liebe zur Theorie zu sein. Ihre Bücher haben ihr dabei geholfen, ihr eigenen Erfahrungen und Gedanken zu ordnen und sie an KollegInnen weiterzureichen. Und im heutigen Podcast-Gespräch sprechen wir über ihr Buch „Systemische Beratung der Gesellschaft – Strategien für die Transformation“ erschienen 2022 und brandaktuell, wie das Miteinander in der Gesellschaft immer wieder aufzeigt. Denn zwischen Einsicht und Handeln klafft immer wieder eine große Lücke, so Dr. Ruth Seliger. Im Gespräch darf ich Frau Dr. Seliger zu folgen Themen (u.a.) aus ihrem Buch löchern … • Was ist Gesellschaft und wie verändert sich Gesellschaft? • Gibt es Wege aus der Krise? Wenn ja, welche? • Sie sprechen in Ihrem Buch vom Kompass für Transformieren und nicht für Transformation, warum wählen Sie das Verb und nicht das Nomen/Substantiv? • Die Change-Formel in Ihrem Buch wirkt zunächst einfach, in der Praxis ist sie hochkomplex. Was ist der häufigste „blinde Fleck“, den Menschen in Transformationsprozessen da-bei übersehen? • Warum ist es aus Ihrer Sicht so wichtig, Visionen klar von Zielen oder Utopien zu unter-scheiden? • Ressourcenorientiertes Denken steht im Zentrum Ihres Ansatzes. In einer Welt, die eher Defizite betont. Was verändert sich, wenn man den Fokus konsequent auf Potenziale richtet? • Wie verändern sich Gespräche, wenn wir beginnen über Ressourcen statt Defizite zu sprechen? Wir beendeten den Podcast mit dem „kleinen Kaleidoskop“ (wie ich meine Podcasts stets beende), d.h. ich formulierte Sätze an und Frau Dr. Seliger beendete die Sätze schnell, intuitiv & kurz … 1. Systemisches Wissen … 2. Gesellschaftlicher Wandel … 3. Der Blick auf die Vergangenheit … 4. Der Blick auf die Gegenwart … 5. Auf Blick auf die Zukunft … Ich wünsche Ihnen viel Kurzweil beim ZUHÖREN und auch beim Lesen des Buches „Systemische Beratung der Gesellschaft – Strategien für die Transformation“. Herzlichst Ihre Claudia Lutschewitz

They are trying to build a prison for you and me to live in. Another prison system.  Topics include: technical difficulties, Patreon videos, Singularity Summit interviews, International Alchemy Conference, New World Fest, insanity of the day, East Coast trip, new digital media propaganda, global propaganda, Epstein, taking away ability to think, influencer tools, tech elite, defense contracts, Anduril, Palmer Luckey, obsession over PR, mic gain, JD Vance, surveillance state, same project of Neocons, World War 3, information warfare, disinformation campaigns, schizophrenic government, no victory upon Trump death, Peter Thiel, salesman for MAGA, exploitation of patriot movement, eugenic philosophy, life extension research, new Superman movie, Amazon in its early days, inauguration, Technological Singularity, Kurzweil, Alligator Alcatraz, things are things, inventors, virtual worlds, complaining before it's too late, deepfakes, knobs, Uncle TikTok videos, prison industrial complex, Freedom City, gig economy, dystopia

In January, 2022 today's guest, Mike Paciello, made his first appearance on Unstoppable Mindset in Episode 19. It is not often that most of us have the opportunity and honor to meet a real trendsetter and pioneer much less for a second time. However, today, we get to spend more time with Mike, and we get to talk about not only the concepts around web accessibility, but we also discuss the whole concept of inclusion and how much progress we have made much less how much more work needs to be done.   Mike Paciello has been a fixture in the assistive technology world for some thirty years. I have known of him for most of that time, but our paths never crossed until September of 2021 when we worked together to help create some meetings and sessions around the topic of website accessibility in Washington D.C.   As you will hear, Mike began his career as a technical writer for Digital Equipment Corporation, an early leader in the computer manufacturing industry. I won't tell you Mike's story here. What I will say is that although Mike is fully sighted and thus does not use much of the technology blind and low vision persons use, he really gets it. He fully understands what Inclusion is all about and he has worked and continues to work to promote inclusion and access for all throughout the world. As Mike and I discuss, making technology more inclusive will not only help persons with disabilities be more involved in society, but people will discover that much of the technology we use can make everyone's life better. We talk about a lot of the technologies being used today to make websites more inclusive including the use of AI and how AI can and does enhance inclusion efforts.   It is no accident that this episode is being released now. This episode is being released on July 25 to coincide with the 35th anniversary of the signing of the Americans With Disabilities Act which was signed on July 26, 1990. HAPPY BIRTHDAY ADA!   After you experience our podcast with Mike, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Please feel free to email me at michaelhi@accessibe.com to tell me of your observations. Thanks.     About the Guest:   Mike Paciello is the Chief Accessibility Officer at AudioEye, Inc., a digital accessibility company. Prior to joining AudioEye, Mike founded WebABLE/WebABLE.TV, which delivers news about the disability and accessibility technology market. Mike authored the first book on web accessibility and usability, “Web Accessibility for People with Disabilities” and, in 1997, Mr. Paciello received recognition from President Bill Clinton for his work in the creation of World Wide Web Consortium's (W3C) Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI). He has served as an advisor to the US Access Board and other federal agencies since 1992.   Mike has served as an international leader, technologist, and authority in emerging technology, accessibility, usability, and electronic publishing. Mike is the former Founder of The Paciello Group (TPG), a world-renowned software accessibility consultancy acquired in 2017 by Vispero. Ways to connect with Mike:   mpaciello@webable.com Michael.paciello@audioeye.com Mikepaciello@gmail.com     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset where inclusion diversity and the unexpected meet. Normally, our guests deal with the unexpected, which is anything that doesn't have to do with inclusion or diversity. Today, however, we get to sort of deal with both. We have a guest who actually was a guest on our podcast before he was in show 19 that goes all the way back to January of 2022, his name is Mike Paciello. He's been very involved in the whole internet and accessibility movement and so on for more than 30 years, and I think we're going to have a lot of fun chatting about what's going on in the world of accessibility and the Internet and and, you know, and but we won't probably get into whether God is a man or a woman, but that's okay, God is actually both, so we don't have to worry about that. But anyway, Mike, welcome to unstoppable mindset.   Mike Paciello ** 02:21 Yeah, Hey, Mike, thanks a lot. I can't believe has it really been already since today, six years since the last time I came on this? No, three, 320, 22 Oh, 2022, I for whatever I 2019 Okay, three years sounds a little bit more realistic, but still, it's been a long time. Thank you for having me. It's, it's, it's great to be here. And obviously, as you know, a lot of things have changed in my life since then. But, yeah, very   Michael Hingson ** 02:46 cool. Well, you were in show number 19. And I'm not sure what number this is going to be, but it's going to be above 360 so it's been a while. Amazing, amazing, unstoppable, unstoppable. That's it. We got to keep it going. And Mike and I have been involved in a few things together, in, in later, in, I guess it was in 20 when we do the M enabling Summit, that was 2021 wasn't it? Yeah, I think it was, I think it was the year before we did the podcast, yeah, podcast, 2021 right? So we were in DC, and we both worked because there was a group that wanted to completely condemn the kinds of technologies that accessibe and other companies use. Some people call it overlays. I'm not sure that that's totally accurate today, but we we worked to get them to not do what they originally intended to do, but rather to explore it in a little bit more detail, which I think was a lot more reasonable to do. So we've, we've had some fun over the years, and we see each other every so often, and here we are again today. So yeah, I'm glad you're here. Well, tell us a little about well, and I guess what we'll do is do some stuff that we did in 2022 tell us about kind of the early Mike, growing up and all that and what eventually got you into dealing with all this business of web accessibility and such. Yeah, thank you.   Mike Paciello ** 04:08 You know, I've tried to short this, shorten this story 100 times. Oh, don't worry. See if I get let's see if I can keep it succinct and and for the folks out there who understand verbosity and it's in its finest way for screen reader users, I'll try not to be verbose. I already am being   Michael Hingson ** 04:28 intermediate levels fine.   Mike Paciello ** 04:30 I came into this entire field as a technical writer trying to solve a problem that I kind of stumbled into doing some volunteer work for the debt the company that I then then worked for, a Digital Equipment Corporation, a software company, DEC software hardware company, back then, right back in the early 80s. And as a technical writer, I started learning at that time what was called Gen code. Eventually that morphed in. To what Goldfarb, Charles Goldfarb at IBM, called SGML, or standard, Generalized Markup Language, and that really became the predecessor, really gave birth to what we see on the web today, to HTML and the web markup languages. That's what they were, except back then, they were markup languages for print publications. So we're myself and a lot of colleagues and friends, people probably here, I'm sure, at bare minimum, recognized named George Kercher. George and I really paired together, worked together, ended up creating an international steer with a group of other colleagues and friends called the icad 22 which is 22 stands for the amount of elements in that markup language. And it became the adopted standard accessibility standard for the American Association of Publishers, and they published that became official. Eventually it morphed into what we today call, you know, accessible web development. It was the first instance by that was integrated into the HTML specification, I think officially, was HTML 3.1 3.2 somewhere in there when it was formally adopted and then announced in 1997 and at the World Wide Web Conference. That's really where my activity in the web began. So I was working at DEC, but I was doing a lot of volunteer work at MIT, which is where the W 3c was located at that particular time. And Tim Bursley, who a lot of people i Sir, I'm sure, know, the inventor of the web, led the effort at that time, and a few other folks that I work with, and.da Jim Miller, a few other folks. And we were, well, I wasn't specifically approached. Tim was approached by Vice President Gore and eventually President Clinton at that time to see if we could come up with some sort of technical standard for accessibility. And Tim asked if I'd like to work on it myself. Danielle, Jim, a few others, we did, and we came up that first initial specification and launched it as part of the Web Accessibility Initiative, which we created in 1997 from there, my career just took off. I went off did a couple of small companies that I launched, you know, my namesake company, the Paciello Group, or TPG, now called TPG IGI, yeah, yeah, which was acquired by vector capital, or this bureau back in 2017 so it's hard to believe that's already almost 10 years ago. No, yeah. And I've been walking in, working in the software, web accessibility field, usability field, writing fields, you know, for some pretty close to 45 years. It's 2025 40 years, I mean, and I started around 1984 I think it was 8384 when all this first   Michael Hingson ** 07:59 started. Wow, so clearly, you've been doing it for a while and understand a lot of the history of it. So how overall has the whole concept of web accessibility changed over the years, not only from a from a coding standpoint, but how do you think it's really changed when it comes to being addressed by the public and companies and so on.   Mike Paciello ** 08:26 That's a great question. I'd certainly like to be more proactive and more positive about it, but, but let me be fair, if you compare today and where web accessibility resides, you know, in the in the business value proposition, so to speak, and list the priorities of companies and corporations. You know, fortune 1000 fortune 5000 call whatever you whatever you want. Accessibility. Is there people? You could say section five way you could say the Web Accessibility Initiative, WCAG, compliance, and by and large, particularly technology driven, digital economy driven businesses, they know what it is. They don't know how to do it. Very rarely do they know how to do it. And even the ones that know how to do it don't really do it very well. So it kind of comes down to the 8020, rule, right? You're a business. Whatever kind of business you are, you're probably in more online presence than ever before, and so a lot of your digital properties will come under you know the laws that mandate usability and accessibility for people with disabilities today that having been said and more and more people know about it than ever before, certainly from the time that I started back in the you know, again, in the early, mid 80s, to where we are today. It's night and day. But in terms of prioritization, I don't know. I think what happens quite often is business value proposition. Decisions get in the way. Priorities get in the way of what a business in, what its core business are, what they're trying to accomplish, who they're trying to sell, sell to. They still view the disability market, never mind the blind and low vision, you know, market alone as a niche market. So they don't make the kind of investors that I, I believe that they could, you know, there's certainly, there are great companies like like Microsoft and and Google, Amazon, Apple, you know, a lot of these companies, you know, have done some Yeoman work at that level, but it's nowhere near where it should be. It just absolutely isn't. And so from that standpoint, in where I envision things, when I started this career was when I was in my 20 somethings, and now I'm over now I'm over 60. Well over 60. Yeah, I expected a lot more in, you know, in an internet age, much, much more.   Michael Hingson ** 11:00 Yeah, yeah. Well, it's it's really strange that so much has happened and yet so much hasn't happened. And I agree with you, there's been a lot of visibility for the concept of accessibility and inclusion and making the the internet a better place, but it is so unfortunate that most people don't know how to how to do anything with it. Schools aren't really teaching it. And more important than even teaching the coding, from from my perspective, looking at it more philosophically, what we don't tend to see are people really recognizing the value of disabilities, and the value that the market that people with disabilities bring to the to the world is significant. I mean, the Center for Disease Control talks about the fact that they're like up to 25% of all Americans have some sort of disability. Now I take a different approach. Actually. I don't know whether you've read my article on it, but I believe everyone on the in the in the world has a disability, and the reality is, most people are light dependent, but that's as much a disability as blindness. Except that since 1878 when Thomas Edison invented the light bulb. We have focused nothing short of trying to do everything we can to improve light on demand for the last 147 years. And so the disability is mostly covered up, but it's still there.   Mike Paciello ** 12:37 You know, yeah, and I did read that article, and I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, I personally think, and I actually have my own blog coming out, and probably later this month might be early, early July, where I talk about the fact that accessibility okay and technology really has been all along. And I love the fact that you call, you know, you identified the, you know, the late 1800s there, when Edison did the the light bulb, Alexander Graham Bell came up with, you know, the telephone. All of those adventures were coming about. But accessibility to people with disabilities, regardless of what their disability is, has always been a catalyst for innovation. That was actually supposed to be the last one I was going to make tonight. Now it's my first point because, because I think it is exactly as you said, Mike, I think that people are not aware. And when I say people, I mean the entire human population, I don't think that we are aware of the history of how, how, because of, I'm not sure if this is the best word, but accommodating users, accommodating people with disabilities, in whatever way, the science that goes behind that design architectural to the point of development and release, oftentimes, things that were done behalf of people with disabilities, or for People with disabilities, resulted in a fundamental, how's this for? For an interesting term, a fundamental alteration right to any other you know, common, and I apologize for the tech, tech, tech language, user interface, right, right? Anything that we interact with has been enhanced because of accessibility, because of people saying, hey, if we made this grip a little bit larger or stickier, we'll call it so I can hold on to it or softer for a person that's got fine motor dexterity disabilities, right? Or if we made a, you know, a web browser, which, of course, we have such that a blind individual, a low vision individual, can adjust the size of this, of the images and the fonts and things like that on a web page, they could do that unknown. Well, these things now. As we well know, help individuals without disabilities. Well, I'm not much, right, and I, again, I'm not speaking as a person beyond your characterization that, hey, look, we are all imperfect. We all have disabilities. And that is, that is absolutely true. But beyond that, I wear glasses. That's it. I do have a little hearing loss too. But you know, I'm finding myself more and more, for example, increasing the size of text. In fact, my note, yes, I increase them to, I don't know they're like, 18 point, just so that it's easier to see. But that is a common thing for every human being, just like you said.   Michael Hingson ** 15:36 Well, the reality is that so many tools that we use today come about. And came about because of people with disabilities. Peggy Chung Curtis Chung's wife, known as the blind history lady, and one of the stories that she told on her first visit to unstoppable mindset, which, by the way, is episode number five. I remember that Peggy tells the story of the invention of the typewriter, which was invented for a blind countist, because she wanted to be able to communicate with her lover without her husband knowing about it, and she didn't want to dictate things and so on. She wanted to be able to create a document and seal it, and that way it could be delivered to the lever directly. And the typewriter was the result of   Mike Paciello ** 16:20 that? I didn't know that. I will definitely go back. I just wrote it down. I wrote down a note that was episode number five, yeah, before with Curtis a couple of times, but obviously a good friend of ours, yeah, but I yeah, that's, that's, that's awesome.   Michael Hingson ** 16:37 Well, and look at, I'll tell you one of the things that really surprises me. So Apple was going to get sued because they weren't making any of their products accessible. And before the lawsuit was filed, they came along and they said, we'll fix it. And they did make and it all started to a degree with iTunes U but also was the iPhone and the iPod and so on. But they they, they did the work. Mostly. They embedded a screen reader called Voiceover in all of their operating systems. They did make iTunes you available. What really surprises me, though is that I don't tend to see perhaps some things that they could do to make voiceover more attractive to drivers so they don't have to look at the screen when a phone call comes in or whatever. And that they could be doing some things with VoiceOver to make it more usable for sighted people in a lot of instances. And I just don't, I don't see any emphasis on that, which is really surprising to me.   Mike Paciello ** 17:38 Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, there are a lot of use cases there that you go for. I think Mark Rico would certainly agree with you in terms of autonomous driving for the blind, right? Sure that too. But yeah, I definitely agree and, and I know the guy that the architect voiceover and develop voiceover for Apple and, boy, why can I think of his last name? I know his first name. First name is Mike. Is with Be My Eyes now and in doing things at that level. But I will just say one thing, not to correct you, but Apple had been in the accessibility business long before voice over Alan Brightman and Gary mulcher were instrumental towards convincing, you know, jobs of the importance of accessibility to people with disabilities,   Michael Hingson ** 18:31 right? But they weren't doing anything to make products accessible for blind people who needed screen readers until that lawsuit came along. Was   Mike Paciello ** 18:40 before screen readers? Yeah, that was before,   Michael Hingson ** 18:43 but they did it. Yeah. The only thing I wish Apple would do in that regard, that they haven't done yet, is Apple has mandates and requirements if you're going to put an app in the App Store. And I don't know whether it's quite still true, but it used to be that if your app had a desktop or it looked like a Windows desktop, they wouldn't accept it in the app store. And one of the things that surprises me is that they don't require that app developers make sure that their products are usable with with VoiceOver. And the reality is that's a it doesn't need to be a really significantly moving target. For example, let's say you have an app that is dealing with displaying star charts or maps. I can't see the map. I understand that, but at least voiceover ought to give me the ability to control what goes on the screen, so that I can have somebody describe it, and I don't have to spend 15 or 20 minutes describing my thought process, but rather, I can just move things around on the screen to get to where we need to go. And I wish Apple would do a little bit more in that regard.   Mike Paciello ** 19:52 Yeah, I think that's a great a great thought and a great challenge, if, between me and you. Yeah, I think it goes back to what I said before, even though we both see how accessibility or accommodating users with disabilities has led to some of the most incredible innovations. I mean, the Department of Defense, for years, would integrate people with disabilities in their user testing, they could better help, you know, military soldiers, things like that, assimilate situations where there was no hearing, there was they were immobile, they couldn't see all, you know, all of these things that were natural. You know, user environments or personas for people with disabilities. So they led to these kind of, you know, incredible innovations, I would tell you, Mike, I think you know this, it's because the business value proposition dictates otherwise.   Michael Hingson ** 20:55 Yeah, and, well, I guess I would change that slightly and say that people think that the business proposition does but it may very well be that they would find that there's a lot more value in doing it if they would really open up their minds to looking at it differently. It's   Mike Paciello ** 21:10 kind of, it's kind of like, it's tough. It's kind of like, if I could use this illustration, so to speak, for those who may not be religiously inclined, but you know, it's, it's like prophecy. Most people, you don't know whether or not prophecy is valid until years beyond, you know, years after. And then you could look back at time and say, See, it was all along. These things, you know, resulted in a, me, a major paradigm shift in the way that we do or don't do things. And I think that's exactly what you're saying. You know, if, if people would really look at the potential of what technologies like, you know, a voice over or, as you know, a good friend of mine said, Look, we it should be screen readers. It should be voice IO interfaces, right? That every human can use and interact with regardless. That's what we're really talking about. There's   Michael Hingson ** 22:10 a big discussion going on some of the lists now about the meta, Ray Ban, glasses, and some of the things that it doesn't do or that they don't do well, that they should like. It's really difficult to get the meta glasses to read completely a full page. I think there are ways that people have now found to get it to do that, but there are things like that that it that that don't happen. And again, I think it gets back to what you're saying is the attitude is, well, most people aren't going to need that. Well, the reality is, how do you know and how do you know what they'll need until you offer options. So one of my favorite stories is when I worked for Kurzweil a long time ago, some people called one day and they wanted to come and see a new talking computer terminal that that Ray and I and others developed, and they came up, and it turns out, they were with one of those initial organizations out of Langley, Virginia, the CIA. And what they wanted to do was to use the map the the terminal connected to their computers to allow them to move pointers on a map and not have to watch the map or the all of the map while they were doing it, but rather, the computer would verbalize where the pointer was, and then they could they could move it around and pin a spot without having to actually look at the screen, because the way their machine was designed, it was difficult to do that. You know, the reality is that most of the technologies that we need and that we use and can use could be used by so much, so many more people, if people would just really look at it and think about it, but, but you're right, they don't.   Mike Paciello ** 24:04 You know, it's, of course, raise a raise another good friend of mine. We both having in common. I work with him. I been down his office a few, more than few times, although his Boston office, anyway, I think he's, I'm not sure he's in Newton. He's in Newton. Yeah. Is he still in Newton? Okay. But anyway, it reminded me of something that happened in a similar vein, and that was several years ago. I was at a fast forward forward conference, future forward conference, and a company, EMC, who absorbed by Dell, I think, right, yes, where they all are. So there I was surprised that when that happened. But hey, yeah, yeah, I was surprised that compact bought depth, so that's okay, yeah, right. That HP bought count, right? That whole thing happened. But um, their chief science, chief scientist, I think he was a their CSO chief scientist, Doc. Came up and made this presentation. And basically the presentation was using voice recognition. They had been hired by the NSA. So it was a NSA right to use voice recognition in a way where they would recognize voices and then record those voices into it, out the output the transcript of that right text, text files, and feed them back to, you know, the NSA agents, right? So here's the funny part of that story goes up i i waited he gave his presentation. This is amazing technology, and what could it was like, 99% accurate in terms of not just recognizing American, English speaking people, but a number of different other languages, in dialects. And the guy who gave the presentation, I actually knew, because he had been a dec for many years. So in the Q and A Part I raised by hand. I got up there. He didn't recognize it a few years had gone by. And I said, you know, this is amazing technology. We could really use this in the field that I work in. And he said, Well, how's that? And I said, you know, voice recognition and outputting text would allow us to do now this is probably 2008 2009 somewhere in that area, would allow us to do real time, automated transcription for the Deaf, Captioning. And he looks at me and he he says, Do I know you? This is through a live audience. I said. I said, Yeah, Mark is it was. Mark said, So Mike gas yellow. He said, you're the only guy in town that I know that could turn a advanced, emerging technology into something for people with disabilities. I can't believe it. So that was, that was, but there was kind of the opposite. It was a technology they were focused on making this, you know, this technology available for, you know, government, obviously covert reasons that if they were using it and applying it in a good way for people with disabilities, man, we'd have been much faster, much further along or even today, right? I mean, it's being done, still not as good, not as good as that, as I saw. But that just goes to show you what, what commercial and government funding can do when it's applied properly?   Michael Hingson ** 27:41 Well, Dragon, naturally speaking, has certainly come a long way since the original Dragon Dictate. But there's still errors, there's still things, but it does get better, but I hear exactly what you're saying, and the reality is that we don't tend to think in broad enough strokes for a lot of the things that we do, which is so unfortunate,   Mike Paciello ** 28:03 yeah? I mean, I've had an old saying that I've walked around for a long time. I should have, I should make a baseball cap, whether something or T shirt. And it simply was, think accessibility, yeah, period. If, if, if we, organizations, people, designers, developers, architects, usability, people, QA, people. If everybody in the, you know, in the development life cycle was thinking about accessibility, or accessibility was integrated, when we say accessibility, we're talking about again, for users with disabilities, if that became part of, if not the functional catalyst, for technology. Man, we'd have been a lot further along in the quote, unquote value chains than we are today.   Michael Hingson ** 28:46 One of the big things at least, that Apple did do was they built voiceover into their operating system, so anybody who buys any Apple device today automatically has redundancy here, but access to accessibility, right? Which, which is really the way it ought to be. No offense to vispero and jaws, because they're they're able to fill the gap. But still, if Microsoft had truly devoted the time that they should have to narrate her at the beginning. We might see a different kind of an architecture today.   Mike Paciello ** 29:26 You know, I so I want to, by the way, the person that invented that wrote that code is Mike shabanik. That's his name I was thinking about. So Mike, if you're listening to this guy, just hi from two others. And if he's not, he should be, yeah, yeah, exactly right from two other mics. But so let me ask you this question, because I legitimately can't remember this, and have had a number of discussions with Mike about this. So VoiceOver is native to the US, right?   Michael Hingson ** 29:56 But no, well, no to to the to the to the. Products, but not just the US. No,   Mike Paciello ** 30:02 no, I said, OS, yes, it's native to OS, yeah, right. It's native that way, right? But doesn't it still use an off screen model for producing or, you know, translate the transformation of, you know, on screen to voice.   Michael Hingson ** 30:27 I'm not sure that's totally true. Go a little bit deeper into that for me.   Mike Paciello ** 30:34 Well, I mean, so NVDA and jaws use this off screen model, right, which is functionally, they grab, will they grab some content, or whatever it is, push it to this, you know, little black box, do all those translations, you know, do all the transformation, and then push it back so it's renderable to a screen reader. Okay, so that's this off screen model that is transparent to the users, although now you know you can get into it and and tweak it and work with it right, right? I recall when Mike was working on the original design of of nary, excuse me, a voiceover, and he had called me, and I said, Are you going to continue with the notion of an off screen model? And he said, Yeah, we are. And I said, Well, when you can build something that's more like what TV Raman has built into Emacs, and it works integral to the actual OS, purely native. Call me because then I'm interested in, but now that was, you know, 1520, years ago, right? I mean, how long has voiceover been around,   Michael Hingson ** 31:51 since 2007   Mike Paciello ** 31:54 right? So, yeah, 20 years ago, right? Just shy of 20 years, 18 years. So I don't know. I honestly don't know. I'm   Michael Hingson ** 32:02 not totally sure, but I believe that it is, but I can, you know, we'll have to, we'll have to look into that.   Mike Paciello ** 32:08 If anyone in the audience is out there looking at you, get to us before we find out. Let us we'll find out at the NFB   Michael Hingson ** 32:12 convention, because they're going to be a number of Apple people there. We can certainly ask, there   Mike Paciello ** 32:17 you go. That's right, for sure. James Craig is bound to be there. I can ask him and talk to him about that for sure. Yep, so anyway,   Michael Hingson ** 32:23 but I think, I think it's a very it's a valid point. And you know, the the issue is that, again, if done right and app developers are doing things right there, there needs to, there ought to be a way that every app has some level of accessibility that makes it more available. And the reality is, people, other than blind people use some of these technologies as well. So we're talking about voice input. You know, quadriplegics, for example, who can't operate a keyboard will use or a mouse can use, like a puff and zip stick to and and Dragon to interact with a computer and are successful at doing it. The reality is, there's a whole lot more opportunities out there than people think. Don't   Mike Paciello ** 33:11 I agree with that. I'm shaking my head up and down Mike and I'm telling you, there is, I mean, voice recognition alone. I can remember having a conversation with Tony vitality, one of the CO inventors of the deck talk. And that goes all the way back into the, you know, into the early 90s, about voice recognition and linguistics and what you know, and I know Kurzweil did a lot of working with Terry right on voice utterances and things like that. Yeah, yeah. There's, there's a wide open window of opportunity there for study and research that could easily be improved. And as you said, and this is the point, it doesn't just improve the lives of the blind or low vision. It improves the lives of a number of different types of Persona, disability persona types, but it would certainly create a pathway, a very wide path, for individuals, users without disabilities, in a number of different life scenarios.   Michael Hingson ** 34:10 Yeah, and it's amazing how little sometimes that's done. I had the pleasure a few years ago of driving a Tesla down Interstate 15 out here in California. Glad I wasn't there. You bigot, you know, the co pilot system worked. Yeah, you know, I just kept my hands on the wheel so I didn't very much, right? Not have any accidents. Back off now it worked out really well, but, but here's what's really interesting in that same vehicle, and it's something that that I find all too often is is the case if I were a passenger sitting in the front seat, there's so much that I as a passenger don't have access to that other passenger. Do radios now are mostly touchscreen right, which means and they don't build in the features that would make the touchscreen system, which they could do, accessible. The Tesla vehicle is incredibly inaccessible. And there's for a guy who's so innovative, there's no reason for that to be that way. And again, I submit that if they truly make the product so a blind person could use it. Think of how much more a sighted person who doesn't have to take their eyes off the road could use the same technologies.   Mike Paciello ** 35:35 You know, Mike, again, you and I are on the same page. I mean, imagine these guys are supposed to be creative and imaginative and forward thinking, right? Could you? Can you imagine a better tagline than something along the lines of Tesla, so user friendly that a blind person can drive it? Yeah? I mean this is, have you heard or seen, you know, metaphorically speaking, or that's okay, a an advertisement or PR done by any, any company, because they're all, all the way across the board, that hasn't featured what it can do to enhance lives of people with disabilities. Where it wasn't a hit. I mean, literally, it was, yeah, you see these commercials played over and over to Apple, Microsoft, Emma, I see McDonald's, Walmart. I mean, I could just name, name the one after another. Really, really outstanding. Salesforce has done it. Just incredible. They would do it, yeah. I mean, there is there any more human centric message than saying, Look what we've built and designed we're releasing to the masses and everyone, anyone, regardless of ability, can use it. Yeah, that, to me, is that's, I agree that's a good route, right for marketing and PR, good,   Michael Hingson ** 37:03 yeah. And yet they don't, you know, I see commercials like about one of the one of the eye injections, or whatever Bobby is, Mo or whatever it is. And at the beginning, the woman says, I think I'm losing sight of the world around me. You know that's all about, right? It's eyesight and nothing else. And I appreciate, I'm all for people keeping their eyesight and doing what's necessary. But unfortunately, all too often, we do that at the detriment of of other people, which is so unfortunate.   Mike Paciello ** 37:39 Yeah, you know again, not to, not to get off the subject, but one of my favorite books is rethinking competitive advantage, by Ram Sharon. I don't know if you know know him, but the guy is one of my heroes in terms of just vision and Business and Technology. And in this, this book, he wrote this a couple of years ago. He said this one this is his first rule of competition in the digital age. The number one rule was simply this, a personalized consumer experience, key to exponential growth. That's exactly you and I are talking about personally. I want to see interfaces adapt to users, rather than what we have today, which is users having to adapt to the interface.   Michael Hingson ** 38:32 Yeah, and it would make so much sense to do so. I hope somebody out there is listening and will maybe take some of this to heart, because if they do it right, they can have a huge market in no time at all, just because they show they care. You know, Nielsen Company did a survey back in 2016 where they looked at a variety of companies and consumers and so on. And if I recall the numbers right, they decided that people with disabilities are 35% more likely to continue to work with and shop, for example, at companies that really do what they can to make their websites and access to their products accessible, as opposed to not. And that's that's telling. It's so very telling. But we don't see people talking about that nearly like we should   Mike Paciello ** 39:20 you talk about a business value proposition. There is bullet proof that where you are leaving money on the table, yep, and a lot of it, yeah, exactly. We're not talking about 1000s or hundreds of 1000s. We're talking about billions and trillions, in some instances, not an exaggeration by any stretch of the imagination, very, very simple math. I had this conversation a couple years ago with the CEO of Pearson. At that time, he's retired, but, you know, I told him, if you spent $1 for every person that it was in the world with. Disability, you're, you're, you're talking about 1/4 of the population, right? It's simple math, simple math,   Michael Hingson ** 40:08 but people still won't do it. I mean, we taught you to mention section 508, before with the whole issue of web access, how much of the government has really made their websites accessible, even though it's the law?   Mike Paciello ** 40:19 Yeah, three years, three or four years ago, they did a study, and they found out that the good that every federal agency, most of the federal agencies, were not even keeping up thinking with reporting of the status, of where they were, and yet that was written right into the five way law. They were mandated to do it, and they still did do   Michael Hingson ** 40:37 it. We haven't, you know, the whole Americans with Disabilities Act. Finally, the Department of Justice said that the internet is a place of business, but still, it's not written in the law. And of course, we only see about 3% of all websites that tend to have any level of access. And there's no reason for that. It's not that magical. And again, I go back to what do we do to get schools and those who teach people how to code to understand the value of putting in accessibility right from the outset?   Mike Paciello ** 41:10 Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. I think this is what Kate sanka is trying to do with with Teach access. In fact, you know, again, my company, TPG was one of the founding companies have teach access back again, 10 years ago, when it first started. But that's where it starts. I mean, they're, they're pretty much focused on post secondary, university education, but I could tell you on a personal level, I was speaking at my kids grade school, elementary school, because they were already using laptops and computers back then it starts. Then you've got to build a mindset. You've got to build it we you've heard about the accessibility, maturity models coming out of the W, 3c, and in I, double AP. What that speaks to fundamentally, is building a culture within your corporate organization that is think accessibility as a think accessibility mindset, that it is woven into the fiber of every business line, in every technology, software development life cycle, all of the contributors at that level, from A to Z. But if you don't build it into the culture, it's not going to happen. So I would love to see a lot more being done at that level. But yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a hero. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 42:34 we're, we're left out of the conversation so much. Yeah, yeah, totally. So you, you sold TPG, and you then formed, or you had web able and then able Docs.   Mike Paciello ** 42:48 So what web able came out was a carve out, one of two carve outs that I had from when I sold TPG. The other was open access technologies, which which eventually was sold to another accessibility company primarily focused on making documentation accessible to meet the WCAG and other standards requirements and web able I carved out. It's been a kind of a hobby of mine now, for since I sold TPG, I'm still working on the back end, ironically, from the get go, so we're talking, you know, again, eight years ago, I had built machine learning and AI into it. From then back then, I did so that what it does is it very simply, goes out and collects 1000s and 1000s of articles as it relates to technology, people with disabilities, and then cleans them up and post them to web able.com I've got a lot more playing for it, but that's in a nutshell. That's what it does. And I don't we do some we do some QA review to make sure that the cleanup in terms of accessibility and the articles are are properly formatted and are accessible. We use the web aim API, but yeah, works like magic. Works like clockwork, and that's got aI uses IBM Watson AI built into it. Yeah, enable docs was abledocs was, how should I say this in a nice way, abledocs was a slight excursion off of my main route. It can work out. I wish it had. It had a lot of potential, much like open access technologies, but they both suffered from owners who really, really not including myself, who just didn't have good vision and in lack humility,   Michael Hingson ** 44:43 yeah. How's that? There you go. Well, so not to go political or anything, but AI in general is interesting, and I know that there have been a lot of debates over the last few years about artificial. Intelligence and helping to make websites accessible. There are several companies like AudioEye, user way, accessibe and so on that to one degree or another, use AI. What? What? So in general, what do you think about AI and how it's going to help deal with or not, the whole issue of disabilities and web access,   Mike Paciello ** 45:22 yeah, and we're going to set aside Neil Jacobs thoughts on how he sees it in the future, right? Although I have to tell you, he gave me some things to think about, so we'll just set that to to the side. So I think what AI offers today is something that I thought right away when it started to see the, you know, the accessibes, the user ways, the audio, eyes, and all the other companies kind of delving into it, I always saw potential to how's this remediate a fundamental problem or challenge, let's not call it a problem, a challenge that we were otherwise seeing in the professional services side of that equation around web accessibility, right? So you get experts who use validation tools and other tools, who know about code. Could go in and they know and they use usability, they use user testing, and they go in and they can tell you what you need to do to make your digital properties right, usable and accessible. People with disabilities, all well and good. That's great. And believe me, I had some of the best people, if not the best people in the world, work for me at one time. However, there are a couple of things it could not do in it's never going to do. Number one, first and foremost, from my perspective, it can't scale. It cannot scale. You can do some things at, you know, in a large way. For example, if, if a company is using some sort of, you know, CMS content management system in which their entire sites, you know, all their sites, all their digital properties, you know, are woven into templates, and those templates are remediated. So that cuts down a little bit on the work. But if you go into companies now, it's not like they're limited to two or three templates. Now they've got, you know, department upon department upon department, everybody's got a different template. So even those are becoming very vos, very verbose and very plentiful. So accessibility as a manual effort doesn't really scale well. And if it does, even if it could, it's not fast enough, right? So that's what AI does, AI, coupled with automation, speeds up that process and delivers a much wider enterprise level solution. Now again, AI automation is not, is not a whole, is not a holistic science. You know, it's not a silver bullet. David Marathi likes to use the term, what is he? He likes the gold standard. Well, from his perspective, and by the way, David Marathi is CEO of audio. Eye is a combination of automation AI in expert analysis, along with the use of the integration of user testing and by user testing, it's not just personas, but it's also compatibility with the assistive technologies that people with disabilities use. Now, when you do that, you've got something that you could pattern after a standard software development life cycle, environment in which you integrate all of these things. So if you got a tool, you integrate it there. If you've got, you know, a digital accessibility platform which does all this automation, AI, right, which, again, this is the this is a forester foresters take on the the the daps, as they calls it. And not really crazy about that, but that's what they are. Digital Accessibility platforms. It allows us to scale and scale at costs that are much lower, at speeds that are much faster, and it's just a matter of like any QA, you've got to check your work, and you've got it, you can't count on that automation being absolute. We know for a fact that right now, at best, we're going to be able to get 35 to 40% accuracy, some claim, larger different areas. I'm still not convinced of that, but the fact of the matter is, it's like anything else. Technology gets better as it goes, and we'll see improvements over time periods.   Michael Hingson ** 49:49 So here's here's my thought, yeah, let's say you use AI in one of the products that's out there. And I. You go to a website and you include it, and it reasonably well makes the website 50% more usable and accessible than it was before. I'm just, I just threw out that number. I know it's random. Go ahead, Yep, yeah, but let's say it does that. The reality is that means that it's 50% that the web developers, the web coders, don't have to do because something else is dealing with it. But unfortunately, their mentality is not to want to deal with that because they also fear it. But, you know, I remember back in the mid 1980s I started a company because I went off and tried to find a job and couldn't find one. So I started a company with a couple of other people, where we sold early PC based CAD systems to architects, right? And we had AutoCAD versus CAD. Another one called point line, which was a three dimensional system using a y cap solid modeling board that took up two slots in your PC. So it didn't work with all PCs because we didn't have enough slots. But anyway, right, right, right. But anyway, when I brought architects in and we talked about what it did and we showed them, many of them said, I'll never use that. And I said, why? Well, it does work, and that's not the question. But the issue is, we charge by the time, and so we take months to sometimes create designs and projects, right? And so we can't lose that revenue. I said, you're looking at it all wrong. Think about it this way, somebody gives you a job, you come back and you put it in the CAD system. You go through all the iterations it takes, let's just say, two weeks. Then you call your customer in. You use point line, and you can do a three dimensional walk through and fly through. You can even let them look out the window and see what there is and all that they want to make changes. They tell you the changes. You go off and you make the changes. And two weeks later, now it's a month, you give them their finished product, all the designs, all the plots and all that, all done, and you charge them exactly the same price you were going to charge them before. Now you're not charging for your time, you're charging for your expertise, right? And I think that same model still holds true that the technology, I think most people will agree that it is not perfect, but there are a lot of things that it can do. Because the reality is, the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines, are all things that can be defined with computer code, whether it necessarily does it all well with AI or not, is another story. But if it does it to a decent fraction, it makes all the difference in terms of what you're able to do and how quickly you can do   Mike Paciello ** 52:52 it. Yeah, I can argue with that at all. I think any time that we can make our jobs a little bit easier so that we can focus where we should be focused. In this case, as you said, the expertise side of it, right to fix those complicated scenarios or situations that require a hands on surgical like Right? Expertise, you can do that now. You've got more hours more time because it's been saved. The only thing I would say, Mike, about what, what you just said, is that there with that, with that mindset, okay, comes responsibility. Oh, yeah, in this is where I think in everybody that knows anything about this environment, you and I have an intimate understanding of this. The whole overlay discussion is the biggest problem with what happened was less about the technology and more about what claims are being made. Yeah, the technology could do which you could not do in, in some cases, could never do, or would never, would never do, well, right? So if you create, and I would submit this is true in as a fundamental principle, if you create a technology of any kind, you must, in truth, inform your clients of of what it can and cannot do so they understand the absolute value to them, because the last thing you want, because, again, we live in a, unfortunately, a very litigious world. Right soon as there's   Michael Hingson ** 54:49 a mistake couldn't happen,   Mike Paciello ** 54:51 they'll go right after you. So now you know, and again, I don't I'm not necessarily just blaming the ambulance chasers of the world. World. I was talking to an NFP lawyer today. He referred to them in a different name, and I can't remember well, I never heard the expression before, but that's what he meant, right? Yeah, it's the salesman and the product managers and the marketing people themselves, who are were not themselves, to your point, properly trained, properly educated, right? It can't be done, what clearly could not be said, what should or should not be said, right? And then you got lawyers writing things all over the place. So, yeah, yeah. So, so I look people knew when I made the decision to come to audio eye that it was a make or break scenario for me, or at least that's what they thought in my mindset. It always, has always been, that I see incredible possibilities as you do or technology, it just has to be handled responsibly.   Michael Hingson ** 55:56 Do you think that the companies are getting better and smarter about what they portray about their products than they than they were three and four and five years ago.   Mike Paciello ** 56:08 Okay, look, I sat in and chaired a meeting with the NFB on this whole thing. And without a doubt, they're getting smarter. But it took not just a stick, you know, but, but these large lawsuits to get them to change their thinking, to see, you know, where they where they were wrong, and, yeah, things are much better. There's still some issues out there. I both know it that's going to happen, that happens in every industry,   Michael Hingson ** 56:42 but there are improvements. It is getting better, and people are getting smarter, and that's where an organization like the NFB really does need to become more involved than in a sense, they are. They took some pretty drastic steps with some of the companies, and I think that they cut off their nose, despite their face as well, and that didn't help. So I think there are things that need to be done all the way around, but I do see that progress is being made too. I totally   Mike Paciello ** 57:11 agree, and in fact, I'm working with them right now. We're going to start working on the California Accessibility Act again. I'm really looking forward to working with the NFB, the DRC and Imperato over there and his team in the disability rights consortium, consortium with disability rights. What DRC coalition, coalition in in California. I can't wait to do that. We tried last year. We got stopped short. It got tabled, but I feel very good about where we're going this year. So that's, that's my that's, that is my focus right now. And I'm glad I'm going to be able to work with the NFB to be able to do that. Yeah, well, I, I really do hope that it passes. We've seen other states. We've seen some states pass some good legislation, and hopefully we will continue to see some of that go on. Yeah, Colorado has done a great job. Colorado sent a great job. I think they've done it. I really like what's being done with the EAA, even though it's in Europe, and some of the things that are going there, Susanna, Lauren and I had some great discussions. I think she is has been a leader of a Yeoman effort at that level. So we'll see. Let's, let's, I mean, there's still time out here. I guess I really would like to retire,   Michael Hingson ** 58:28 but I know the feeling well, but I can't afford to yet, so I'll just keep speaking and all that well, Mike, this has been wonderful. I really appreciate you taking an hour and coming on, and at least neither of us is putting up with any kind of snow right now, but later in the year we'll see more of that.   Mike Paciello ** 58:45 Yeah, well, maybe you will. We don't get snow down. I have. We've gotten maybe 25 flakes in North Carolina since I've been here.   Michael Hingson ** 58:53 Yeah, you don't get a lot of snow. We don't hear we don't really get it here, around us, up in the mountains, the ski resorts get it, but I'm out in a valley, so we don't, yeah,   Mike Paciello ** 59:02 yeah, no. I love it. I love this is golfing weather.   Michael Hingson ** 59:05 There you go. If people want to reach out to you, how do they do that?   Mike Paciello ** 59:11 There's a couple of ways. Certainly get in touch with me at AudioEye. It's michael.paciello@audioeye.com   Michael Hingson ** 59:17 B, A, C, I, E, L, L, O,   Mike Paciello ** 59:18 that's correct. Thank you for that. You could send me personal email at Mike paciello@gmail.com and or you can send me email at web able. It's m passielo at web able.com, any one of those ways. And please feel free you get on all the social networks. So feel free to link, connect to me. Anyway, I try to respond. I don't think there's anyone I I've not responded to one form or another.   Michael Hingson ** 59:46 Yeah, I'm I'm the same way. If I get an email, I want to respond to it. Yeah, well, thanks again for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening. We really appreciate it. Love to hear your thoughts about this episode. Please feel free to email. Me, you can get me the email address I generally use is Michael h i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, or you can go to our podcast page, which is Michael hingson.com/podcast, and there's a contact form there. But love to hear from you. Love to hear your thoughts, and most of all, please give us a five star rating wherever you're listening. We value your ratings and your reviews a whole lot, so we really appreciate you doing that. And if any of you, and Mike, including you, can think of other people that you think ought to be guests on the podcast, we are always looking for more people, so fill us up, help us find more folks. And we would appreciate that a great deal. So again, Mike, thanks very much. This has been a lot of fun, and we'll have to do it again.   Mike Paciello ** 1:00:44 Thanks for the invitation. Mike, I really appreciate it. Don't forget to add 10 Nakata to your list,   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:49 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

AI as Existential Risk or Government Tool (01:01:19 – 01:07:13) Covers contrasting perspectives on AI, including Yudkowsky's apocalyptic warnings, Kurzweil's utopian visions, and concerns that government and corporations will weaponize AI to control society. AI-Induced Psychosis and User Vulnerability (01:07:14 – 01:14:57) Explores real-world incidents of mental breakdowns linked to extended interactions with chatbots, with examples of hallucinations, delusions, and cases resulting in psychiatric commitment or death. The Rise of the 'Transgender Child' Narrative (01:36:36 – 01:47:46) Traces the origin and media promotion of transgender identity in children from psychiatric labeling in the 1960s to medical interventions and mainstream coverage starting in 2007. Critique of Parental Roles in Gender Transitioning (01:51:33 – 01:55:33) Analyzes how parental affirmation and social pressure may drive children toward transitioning. Highlights concerns of grooming, overbearing parenting, and ideological conformity pushed through media and schools. Tech Billionaires and the Loneliness Economy (02:01:11 – 02:04:56) Discusses the rise of AI chatbot companions promoted by Musk and Zuckerberg amid growing social isolation, especially post-COVID, with commentary on digital loneliness culture. Opposition to AI Data Centers and Local Government Overreach (02:04:39 – 02:11:25) Explores how data centers face public backlash due to environmental strain, government subsidies, secret land deals, and federal preemption overriding local control. Synthetic Human DNA and Government-Linked Bioengineering (02:12:52 – 02:18:55) Critiques the Synthetic Human Genome Project funded by the Wellcome Trust, warning about bioethical concerns, corporate motives, and genetic manipulation under state influence. Trump-Musk Feud and Political Fallout Over Big Beautiful Bill (02:29:59 – 02:38:44) Covers Musk's criticism of Trump's omnibus bill, the loss of fiscal credibility, and escalating personal accusations involving campaign money, subsidies, and Epstein-related smears. Foreign Lobby Influence and Israel Aid Criticized by Massey (02:56:53 – 03:01:36) Massey argues against foreign aid to Israel and questions the outsized influence of pro-Israel lobbying groups like AIPAC. Attack ads conflate dissent with siding with enemies. AI Enforcement: Hertz Rental Scanners Issue Fines (03:16:51 – 03:20:424) Hertz's automated vehicle scanners are charging customers hundreds of dollars for minor or invisible damages. AI is criticized as an inflexible system used to extract fees without human judgment. Lab-Grown Meat and Failed Climate Tech Hype (03:20:24 – 03:23:30) Lab-grown meat is framed as another overhyped climate solution following the path of biofuels, with criticisms about its taste, cost, and reliance on manufactured optimism. Ohio COVID Official Eyes Governorship (03:24:07 – 03:25:08) Amy Acton, known for her strict COVID-era policies, is attempting a political comeback amid public distrust of health officials and changing attitudes on pandemic management. Psychological Damage from COVID Response (03:28:39 – 03:29:50) The lasting psychological trauma from pandemic-era mandates, including fear and isolation, is discussed as a societal failure with lingering effects on public behavior. DOJ Prosecutors Fired Over Jan 6 Cases (03:29:50 – 03:32:30) Multiple Justice Department prosecutors involved in January 6 cases were fired, with critics calling it a political purge and defenders noting the prosecutors' controversial actions. NYC Politician Proposes Taxing White Neighborhoods (03:32:31 – 03:33:58) Mayoral candidate Zoran Mamdani supports shifting tax burdens to wealthier, whiter NYC neighborhoods, sparking backlash and accusations of racialized policymaking. Politicians Debate Loyalty to Israel (03:34:17 – 03:37:58) Candidates debate who supports Israel more strongly, with one refusing to commit to visiting Israel as mayor, highlighting how American politicians compete for pro-Israel credibility. Gaza Civilians Killed Seeking Aid (03:41:51 – 03:43:26) Over 400 Palestinians have reportedly been killed trying to access humanitarian aid in Gaza, with Israeli forces accused of indiscriminate fire. The death toll has reached staggering levels. Civilian Casualties Ignored or Denied (03:44:29 – 03:45:21) Despite overwhelming death tolls, Israeli forces deny targeting civilians or claim ignorance of specific incidents, while critics cite clear evidence of indiscriminate attacks. Israeli Soldiers Admit Crowd Killings (03:53:27 – 03:55:01) Israeli soldiers reportedly confirm they are ordered to fire on crowds of aid-seekers, contradicting official narratives and reinforcing claims of systematic civilian targeting. Follow the show on Kick and watch live every weekday 9:00am EST – 12:00pm EST https://kick.com/davidknightshow Money should have intrinsic value AND transactional privacy: Go to https://davidknight.gold/ for great deals on physical gold/silver For 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to https://trendsjournal.com/ and enter the code KNIGHT Find out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.comIf you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-showOr you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @DavidKnightShow@protonmail.comCash App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-david-knight-show--2653468/support.

AI as Existential Risk or Government Tool (01:01:19 – 01:07:13) Covers contrasting perspectives on AI, including Yudkowsky's apocalyptic warnings, Kurzweil's utopian visions, and concerns that government and corporations will weaponize AI to control society. AI-Induced Psychosis and User Vulnerability (01:07:14 – 01:14:57) Explores real-world incidents of mental breakdowns linked to extended interactions with chatbots, with examples of hallucinations, delusions, and cases resulting in psychiatric commitment or death. The Rise of the 'Transgender Child' Narrative (01:36:36 – 01:47:46) Traces the origin and media promotion of transgender identity in children from psychiatric labeling in the 1960s to medical interventions and mainstream coverage starting in 2007. Critique of Parental Roles in Gender Transitioning (01:51:33 – 01:55:33) Analyzes how parental affirmation and social pressure may drive children toward transitioning. Highlights concerns of grooming, overbearing parenting, and ideological conformity pushed through media and schools. Tech Billionaires and the Loneliness Economy (02:01:11 – 02:04:56) Discusses the rise of AI chatbot companions promoted by Musk and Zuckerberg amid growing social isolation, especially post-COVID, with commentary on digital loneliness culture. Opposition to AI Data Centers and Local Government Overreach (02:04:39 – 02:11:25) Explores how data centers face public backlash due to environmental strain, government subsidies, secret land deals, and federal preemption overriding local control. Synthetic Human DNA and Government-Linked Bioengineering (02:12:52 – 02:18:55) Critiques the Synthetic Human Genome Project funded by the Wellcome Trust, warning about bioethical concerns, corporate motives, and genetic manipulation under state influence. Trump-Musk Feud and Political Fallout Over Big Beautiful Bill (02:29:59 – 02:38:44) Covers Musk's criticism of Trump's omnibus bill, the loss of fiscal credibility, and escalating personal accusations involving campaign money, subsidies, and Epstein-related smears. Foreign Lobby Influence and Israel Aid Criticized by Massey (02:56:53 – 03:01:36) Massey argues against foreign aid to Israel and questions the outsized influence of pro-Israel lobbying groups like AIPAC. Attack ads conflate dissent with siding with enemies. AI Enforcement: Hertz Rental Scanners Issue Fines (03:16:51 – 03:20:424) Hertz's automated vehicle scanners are charging customers hundreds of dollars for minor or invisible damages. AI is criticized as an inflexible system used to extract fees without human judgment. Lab-Grown Meat and Failed Climate Tech Hype (03:20:24 – 03:23:30) Lab-grown meat is framed as another overhyped climate solution following the path of biofuels, with criticisms about its taste, cost, and reliance on manufactured optimism. Ohio COVID Official Eyes Governorship (03:24:07 – 03:25:08) Amy Acton, known for her strict COVID-era policies, is attempting a political comeback amid public distrust of health officials and changing attitudes on pandemic management. Psychological Damage from COVID Response (03:28:39 – 03:29:50) The lasting psychological trauma from pandemic-era mandates, including fear and isolation, is discussed as a societal failure with lingering effects on public behavior. DOJ Prosecutors Fired Over Jan 6 Cases (03:29:50 – 03:32:30) Multiple Justice Department prosecutors involved in January 6 cases were fired, with critics calling it a political purge and defenders noting the prosecutors' controversial actions. NYC Politician Proposes Taxing White Neighborhoods (03:32:31 – 03:33:58) Mayoral candidate Zoran Mamdani supports shifting tax burdens to wealthier, whiter NYC neighborhoods, sparking backlash and accusations of racialized policymaking. Politicians Debate Loyalty to Israel (03:34:17 – 03:37:58) Candidates debate who supports Israel more strongly, with one refusing to commit to visiting Israel as mayor, highlighting how American politicians compete for pro-Israel credibility. Gaza Civilians Killed Seeking Aid (03:41:51 – 03:43:26) Over 400 Palestinians have reportedly been killed trying to access humanitarian aid in Gaza, with Israeli forces accused of indiscriminate fire. The death toll has reached staggering levels. Civilian Casualties Ignored or Denied (03:44:29 – 03:45:21) Despite overwhelming death tolls, Israeli forces deny targeting civilians or claim ignorance of specific incidents, while critics cite clear evidence of indiscriminate attacks. Israeli Soldiers Admit Crowd Killings (03:53:27 – 03:55:01) Israeli soldiers reportedly confirm they are ordered to fire on crowds of aid-seekers, contradicting official narratives and reinforcing claims of systematic civilian targeting. Follow the show on Kick and watch live every weekday 9:00am EST – 12:00pm EST https://kick.com/davidknightshow Money should have intrinsic value AND transactional privacy: Go to https://davidknight.gold/ for great deals on physical gold/silver For 10% off Gerald Celente's prescient Trends Journal, go to https://trendsjournal.com/ and enter the code KNIGHT Find out more about the show and where you can watch it at TheDavidKnightShow.comIf you would like to support the show and our family please consider subscribing monthly here: SubscribeStar https://www.subscribestar.com/the-david-knight-showOr you can send a donation throughMail: David Knight POB 994 Kodak, TN 37764Zelle: @DavidKnightShow@protonmail.comCash App at: $davidknightshowBTC to: bc1qkuec29hkuye4xse9unh7nptvu3y9qmv24vanh7Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-real-david-knight-show--5282736/support.

Amy Kurzweil is a cartoonist and graphic memoirist whose latest book is Artificial: A Love Story. She previously authored Flying Couch: A Graphic Memoir, and you can find her cartoons in The New Yorker. Co-hosts: Jonathan Friedmann & Joey Angel-Field Producer-engineer: Mike Tomren Artificial: A Love Storyhttps://books.catapult.co/books/artificial/ Amy's Websitehttps://amykurzweil.com/ Amy's TED Talkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G37VO1yeVEo Amusing Jews Merch Storehttps://www.amusingjews.com/merch#!/ Subscribe to the Amusing Jews podcasthttps://www.spreaker.com/show/amusing-jews Adat Chaverim – Congregation for Humanistic Judaism, Los Angeleshttps://www.humanisticjudaismla.org/ Jewish Museum of the American Westhttps://www.jmaw.org/ Atheists United Studioshttps://www.atheistsunited.org/au-studios

Send us a textJoin Professor Jeffrey Sachs and futurist Ray Kurzweil for a compelling conversation on the accelerating pace of technological change and its profound implications for the future of humanity. In his new book, The Singularity Is Nearer, Kurzweil revisits and updates his groundbreaking predictions on AI & AGI, exponential growth, and human evolution and longevity.Together, they explore a future where AI rivals human intelligence by 2029, nanotechnology rebuilds the world atom by atom, and our minds merge with the cloud to expand intelligence beyond biological limits. They examine radical life extension, the promise of renewable energy, and how exponential technologies are reshaping industries, reducing poverty, and transforming global well-being. But, they also confront the risks while discussing a vision of the future - both awe-inspiring and cautionary - challenging us to rethink what it means to be human in an age of rapid and relentless innovation.The Book Club with Jeffrey Sachs is brought to you by the SDG Academy, the flagship education initiative of the UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network. Learn more and get involved at bookclubwithjeffreysachs.org.Footnotes:AIAGI The Singularity is Near Dartmouth WorkshopMartin Kosinski NeuromedBiotechnologyFrank RosenblattPerceptronExponential Growth Turing TestLongevity Humanoid RobotsVirtual Reality NeocortexArtificial Consciousness⭐️ Thank you for listening!➡️ Sign up for the newsletter: https://bit.ly/subscribeBCJS➡️ Website: bookclubwithjeffreysachs.org

This is our first — and probably our last — episode where the guest has brought with him an actual punch card and proceeds to explain why it is, in fact, caca (which is Spanish for

Episode 492 avec Thierry et Sébastien B..• Un bras robotisé à la maison enfin abordable (00:02:16) : Pour 100€, et un peu de patience. (Source : clubic.com) • Quand c'est enfin en français nativement (00:09:28) : NotebookLM de Google génère désormais des podcasts en français. (Source : ictjournal.ch) • 30% du code écrit par des machines chez Microsoft? (00:19:09) : L'IA, devenue l'assistant incontournable du développeur. (Source : theregister.com) • Quand l'info locale se fait globale (00:30:20) : Le média en ligne Spatz réinvente la presse communale grâce à l'IA. (Sources : cominmag.ch, commune-suisse.ch et spatz.news) • Et si demain la science allait plus loin que la fiction (00:38:28) : Kurzweil nous livre ses prévisions futuristiques. (Source : tablette-tactile.net) • Quand même en Suisse tu n'es pas planqué (00:48:20) : La tech suisse dénonce une «surveillance de masse» par le Conseil fédéral. (Sources : msn.com et it-connect.fr) Retrouvez toutes nos informations, liens, versions du podcast via notre site Abonnez-vous à notre infolettre afin d'être informé de notre veille technologique de la semaine et de la parution de nos épisodes

The Future of Survival – Surviving the Singularity Episode Description In this episode, we explore one of the most game-changing—and terrifying—concepts in modern prepping: the Singularity. What happens when artificial intelligence surpasses human intelligence and begins rewriting the rules of civilization? From job loss and surveillance to a world where humans might not even be needed, we break down how preppers can stay ahead of the AI curve—and survive what comes next. Episode Breakdown

Episode 492 avec Thierry et Sébastien B..• Un bras robotisé à la maison enfin abordable (00:02:16) : Pour 100€, et un peu de patience. (Source : clubic.com) • Quand c'est enfin en français nativement (00:09:28) : NotebookLM de Google génère désormais des podcasts en français. (Source : ictjournal.ch) • 30% du code écrit par des machines chez Microsoft? (00:19:09) : L'IA, devenue l'assistant incontournable du développeur. (Source : theregister.com) • Quand l'info locale se fait globale (00:30:20) : Le média en ligne Spatz réinvente la presse communale grâce à l'IA. (Sources : cominmag.ch, commune-suisse.ch et spatz.news) • Et si demain la science allait plus loin que la fiction (00:38:28) : Kurzweil nous livre ses prévisions futuristiques. (Source : tablette-tactile.net) • Quand même en Suisse tu n'es pas planqué (00:48:20) : La tech suisse dénonce une «surveillance de masse» par le Conseil fédéral. (Sources : msn.com et it-connect.fr) Retrouvez toutes nos informations, liens, versions du podcast via notre site Abonnez-vous à notre infolettre afin d'être informé de notre veille technologique de la semaine et de la parution de nos épisodes

SaaStr 799: The Series A Landscape in 2025: Insights from Chemistry VC's Ethan Kurzweil SaaStr CEO and Founder Jason Lemkin and Ethan Kurzwiel, previously partner at Bessemer Venture Partners and now founding partner at Chemistry VC, took us through a deep dive of exactly where Series A funding is right now in 2025. Current State of Early-Stage Venture Market The early-stage venture landscape has experienced significant shifts since the peaks of 2021. We're seeing: Deal activity decline: From the highs of 2021 (around 3.5B raised in Q4 2021), we're seeing a return to baseline levels but still below pre-zero interest rate era volumes. Longer funding timelines: Seed to Series A timelines have stretched from approximately 12 months to 25 months on average, requiring founders to plan for longer runways. More capital into fewer deals: While total capital deployment is returning to pre-2021 levels, it's being concentrated in fewer companies, making the environment more binary and competitive. Graduation rates plummeting: The percentage of seed companies successfully raising Series A has dropped significantly across all industries, creating a “crunch” for many startups. Listen in for more! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------   Alright everybody in SaaS, this is it.  The biggest, best, most action-packed SaaS + AI event of the year—SaaStr Annual 2025—is coming this May. Three full days. 10,000+ SaaS and AI leaders and more tactical, no-fluff content than you'll find anywhere else.   If you want to scale faster—$10M, $50M, $100M ARR and beyond—you need the right playbooks, the right connections and the right people in your corner. And SaaStr Annual is where it all happens. We'll have 100's of Legendary speakers from companies like Snowflake, HubSpot, OpenAI, Canva, and more. More networking than you can handle—meet your next investor, co-founder, or biggest deal.  A New AI Demo & Pitch Stage— with your chance to win up to $5M in funding!  So don't wait—grab your tickets now at SaaStrAnnual.com with my code jason100 to save $100 on tickets before prices go up. That's jason 100 at saastrannual.com   See you in May!    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------   Do you know what would make your customer service helpdesk dramatically better? Dumping it and switching to Intercom.  But, youʼre not quite ready to make that change. We get it!   Thatʼs why Fin, the worldʼs leading AI customer service agent, is now available on every helpdesk.   Fin can instantly resolve up to 80% of your tickets,  Which makes your customers happier. And you can get off the customer service rep hiring treadmill.   Fin by Intercom. Named the #1 AI Agent in G2ʼs Winter Report.      Learn more at : inter.com/saastr   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  

Kyriakos is joined by Ethan Kurzweil, a founding partner at Chemistry and former managing partner at Bessemer Venture Partners.He's led early investments in Twitch, Twilio, Intercom, and PagerDuty — and in this conversation, he shares what separates good founders from iconic ones.In this episode, we discuss:- Why the best founders are like cult leaders- What makes a startup idea truly contrarian- How to build a focused, high-conviction VC fund- The future of AI-native companiesWhether you're raising, investing, or building— This is a must-listen for anyone serious about startups.Follow Ethan on X: https://twitter.com/@ethankurzFollow Kyriakos on X: https://twitter.com/@kyriakoselChemistry VC: @chemistry_fund | [https://chemistry.vc](https://chemistry.vc/)TIMESTAMPS00:00 - Intro02:10 - What Makes a Cult-Like Founder05:20 - Why the Best Startups Start in SF08:30 - The Origins of Ethan & Chemistry VC10:20 - How He Spotted Twilio Early13:45 - What Great Founders Have in Common18:00 - Contrarian vs. Consensus Thinking21:00 - Lessons from Bessemer + Transition to Chemistry26:00 - Why Chemistry Focuses Only on Early Stage30:30 - Building a High-Conviction VC Fund35:00 - What Chemistry Invests In38:00 - How to Build a Durable AI Company43:00 - Why AI Will Reshape Healthcare First47:10 - Ethan's First Healthtech Investment50:00 - Building Strong Startup Culture52:00 - Advice for Founders Moving to SF54:40 - Ethan's 50-Year Future Vision58:00 - The Future of Creativity & Learning1:01:00 - Are Elite Universities Still Worth It?1:03:00 - How to Reach Ethan & Final Words

I have never had the pleasure of having a guest quite like Michele Blood. While still living in Australia Michele was an extremely successful rock singer. One day she was involved in a serious accident while being driven to a gig. Her body was, as she says, quite battered and damaged. What is fascinating about Michele's story is how she discovered the value of positive affirmations that she used to heal everything. As she will tell us, it is not just saying affirmations, but rather it is truly believing what you affirm. Her music became an integral of what healed her.   Since her recovery Michele has traveled the world singing and speaking on stage with many well-known motivational and thought leaders. I leave it to her to tell the story.   During our episode Michele will sing one of her affirmation songs. I hope you are as moved by the song in specific and by Michele's attitude and mindset in general. She teaches us a lot that can have nothing but positives effects on your life.   I look forward to hearing what you have to say about my time with Michele. Don't forget to get her free gifts available only to listeners of the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Is that cool or what?       About the Guest:   Michele Blood is a successful, multi-talented lady. Michele was a successful songwriter and rock singer in Australia and after a near-fatal car accident, while in the hospital with many serious injuries, she created positive Affirmation Songs which not only healed her body but also took her to worldwide success. These Affirmation songs affect the left and right hemispheres of the brain. Lyrics, the left hemisphere, and melody and music, the right hemisphere so the new, positive messages go straight to the subconscious mind. This is why millions of people worldwide have downloaded her Affirmation Power songs. These songs cover healing, success, money, joy, confidence and they uplift the person immediately.   In addition to creating Magnet To Success™ products and seminars worldwide, her public Mystical Success Events have been held in over 26 countries. Michele has co-written and created over 80 books, music CDs, audio programs, TV shows, and videos on positive thought, mind transformation, and meditation.   Michele has appeared in many hundreds of podcasts, radio/tv shows, and magazines globally. After many years of meditation, Michele's Kundalini awakened and transformed her consciousness. Michele now teaches others how to live a Successful Life and experience Divine Oneness. Her Mystical Experience webinars and live streams have assisted people globally to transform their lives to the positive. Through her Teachings and Light Transmissions, people awaken and experience what they say is the impossible. They awaken to their true purpose and begin their path to Enlightenment. She has shared the stage and worked with Bob Proctor, Dr. Deepak Chopra, Dr. Wayne Dyer, Jack Canfield, and many other transformational Authors and Teachers. Her latest book is The Magic Of Affirmation Power and her latest album is Create Miracles: Positive Affirmation Songs To Harmonize your Mind and Life. And her new Magnet To Money App will uplift millions worldwide.   Ways to connect with Michele:   https://www.MicheleBlood.com and https://www.YouTube.com/MicheleBlood   Michele would also love to gift your viewers and listeners her audiobook, "The Magic Of Affirmation Power" Your audience can download this free gift by going to: https://www.MicheleBlood.com/UnstoppableMindset   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected, which is really the most fun part, meet today. We are getting close to winter, and I was just telling our guest Michele Blood that here in Victorville, we had a temperature this morning of 28 degrees. Ah, lovely weather, and all the weather people complain about now it's getting cold in the summer, they complained it was getting hot. You know, you can't please them. I don't know what to say. But anyway, one of these days they'll, they'll decide that whatever happens is is not a bad thing, and they'll stop complaining, I guess. But any Yeah. But anyway, Michele, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Thank you.   Michele Blood ** 02:06 Michael, I've been so looking forward to this. After reading thunder dog, I'm going to be reading the second book, which is live like a guide dog. I'm going to be reading that after that, I absolutely adore this book, which I'm showing right now, Thunder dog. It's the most inspirational you can't put down. I mean, the lot not just getting down 78 floors of the Twin Towers, 78 stairs. I mean, oh my gosh. But then everything that you've done in between working with you know Ray Kurzweil, who's done a lot of things in the music industry as well. I mean, I mean, I recognized his name straight away. I'm like, all the all the things you've done. I'm just so impressed by and by your life and how inspiring you are. And I just wanted to say that to everybody, he's just, you gotta get his thunder dog book if you haven't yet, and his new book, live like a guide dog, for sure.   Michael Hingson ** 03:02 I I don't know. I haven't totally kept up, but I haven't heard that anybody has yet come out with a music synthesizer that is better than the Kurzweil synthesizer. Now, a lot has happened, and maybe technology has advanced, but I hadn't heard about anything that still beats it.   Michele Blood ** 03:20 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the fair light was pretty amazing when that first came out, but the Kurzweil, I mean, all any rock musician knows about, yeah, when, when that was first put out, we were just like, oh my gosh, that's amazing, you know, because you could sample sounds and, you know, it was just   Michael Hingson ** 03:39 incredible, and it had a choir built into it. Yeah? Daylight though   Michele Blood ** 03:43 that was, I don't know, think back back in the day, it was like 100 grand, so that's probably why it wasn't as popular. Yeah,   03:51 a little more   Michael Hingson ** 03:52 expensive than the Kurzweil one. Yeah, yeah, our organist at our church where my wife and I went in Irvine and where we got married, our organist had a Kurzweil synthesizer and used it a lot, which was, which was kind of fun, and it was, it was very and it is very impressive all the way around, yeah, but   Michele Blood ** 04:13 just the innovative things that have been done, and you're helping ray with all of the things for the blind as well. Working with Stevie Wonder. I mean, it's just, you're very impressive. You're an inspiration. You are, you are absolutely amazing.   Michael Hingson ** 04:28 Well, thank you. But now let's talk about you a little bit. And you know, you can, you can.   04:35 I didn't show them the cover yet. You can   Michael Hingson ** 04:38 spread any rusty live like a guide dog. Live   04:42 like a guide dog. Needs to cover everybody   Michael Hingson ** 04:45 well, I hope people will get it. I'm we're excited about it. It's been out now a few months. It seems to be selling. We're excited. So hopefully people will read it, and it inspires people a little bit, because it's all about. Are trying to get people to learn to control fear and not let it overwhelm or, as I put it, blind you. But anyway, tell us a little bit about you. Why don't you start with the the early Michele, growing up, and some of those kinds of things, just kind of introduce us to you a little bit.   Michele Blood ** 05:16 Well, I'm an Aussie G'day, everyone. G'day, and, in Australia, I started in the entertainment industry at the age of five, on TV. What   Michael Hingson ** 05:27 did you do? Singing? Oh, okay,   Michele Blood ** 05:31 you know. And then eventually got my, you know, had lots and lots of rock bands I sang in, until eventually I got my own rock band that became very successful. I was the lead singer, one of the main songwriters and the manager of the band. We got a great record label. We had 1000s of people coming to our gigs, and it took years to get there, but I loved it so much, even though it's very, very tough at one stage, we toured for seven years, non stop. I mean, no Christmases, no New Year's eves, because when you're in a rock band, you get paid triple on New Year's Eves and Christmases and stuff like that. Yeah, and you can't really say no until you're really huge. You can't really say no to any gig, because you need the money road crew and sound equipment trucks and all the rest of it so but I feel that my life went on a whole new trajectory after a near fatal truck accident, actually, where I was a passenger with the truck, with all the equipment, and my body was so badly broken, I was In the hospital for months and months and months and and that was the best thing that ever happened to me. I know that sounds crazy everybody, but truly, when you have something so terrible happen to you, and it gets turned around by the Divine, whatever you choose to call God, it gets your life gets turned around and it makes all the difference in the world. So that's the first quarter.   Michael Hingson ** 07:08 Well, you know, I'm really curious. You said something that just strikes a question. I know that a lot of people try to go into entertainment, and most probably aren't overly successful. But why do you think that you were so successful? What what made the rock group and and what you did so successful? Do you have a notion? Well,   Michele Blood ** 07:30 I loved what I did. I was very, very good at it. And not everyone that's good at it's probably other singers in the world that are better than me. But the reason, I think because, I mean, I had some backing vocals on some records, and these female singers were incredible. And one of them said, I know you've got a good voice, Michelle, but I don't know why it's you and not me. And I said, I think it's just that I never gave up, and I was really disciplined. And I, you know, I wasn't on the road of sex, drugs and rock and roll. I was on the road of discipline, making sure that all my band members were disciplined. We worked really, really hard. We rehearsed a lot. We never blew out a gig, not once. So you get a good reputation. And so I started as a cover band, and we would sound just like the records at the time of the 80s. You know, people said that was a band. It sounded like a record. And so then we, we eventually started putting all our originals in and, I mean, I did crazy things, Michael, I went into Time Warner to the A and R people, because I wasn't getting any feedback. It's really hard. You can't just send them a tape to get you know for them to listen to your demos. So I went in as a tap dancing singing telegram. And so the secretary let me go straight into the office, and it was a board meeting, and because she thought, you know, their family had so I was there with flowers and a cake and my ghetto blaster, and I said, Then I did a tap dance, and I made up this song about, you know, this is, this is the band called clapping hands. You're going to sign them, you're going to want them. And this is a singing telegram saying, Listen to this. And that's how I got my first record deal.   Michael Hingson ** 09:24 Creativity counts for something. It   Michele Blood ** 09:25 sure does. You've gotta have guts. And I mean, I by the time I walked out of that office, though I was sweating, I was shaking, but you have to do something to be noticed. And and I think because I love people so much, and because I'd been singing professionally since I was five, which means I was singing for family members and everyone since I was two, apparently getting being put on the kitchen table. And I loved people being happy, and I love loved entertaining. I just loved it. So I think, you know, it's in the stars as. Well, I know that, but I think discipline, hard work eventually never giving up. Yeah, what can I say? Never giving up.   Michael Hingson ** 10:08 Did you so you were a cover band for for a while, which meant you were the the opening band for other groups,   Michele Blood ** 10:17 not as a cover band, well, with the opening act for the pretenders and in excess and a few other bands, when we were an original band and when we had a record label, right, when we had videos on TV, but before that, now we do five to 645, minute sets a night, and we would stay at one big venue, because in back in the day in Australia, the venues were huge for cover bands. You know, four to 6000 people could come in, and we got, we got very, very popular as a cover band, and then we went original. But it took a few years to do that, for sure, but   Michael Hingson ** 10:55 I remember, I remember bands back in the 50s and 60s, like the platters, who actually were the opening band, or they were the band that were the background for other singers. And then somebody discovered these guys really are better than that, and then they became their own group, right?   Michele Blood ** 11:14 Yeah, yeah. It's interesting how, how it all works out. But in Australia, it's, it's a tough way to tour when you're a female singer, because the Aussies are pretty tough. If they don't like you, you can get B canes thrown at you.   Michael Hingson ** 11:32 Yeah, well, those kinds of things do happen. Yes, they did in Boston for for sports teams. I've heard of fans really being very brutal to like the the Patriots. I think when Steve Grogan was the quarterback, they actually booed him off the field once. It was pretty amazing. I don't know. You know that's people take some of these things way too seriously. They   Michele Blood ** 12:00 certainly do. I like what Oscar Wilde said, Life is too serious to be taken seriously. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 12:09 yeah, absolutely, and, but people still do it way too much. Which is, which is, which is a problem. Yes, you know, we need people to take life more like Mark Twain and Will Rogers, by all means, but I can co so you, you had a serious car accident, and as you said, It really broke your body. Tell us what you'd like to about that and and then how you dealt with it, because that, that was quite a, I won't say miraculous. That was quite a marvel. You. You certainly took a leap along the way with that.   Michele Blood ** 12:50 Yeah, it's such a unique story. Um, after you know the truck driver we've been driving for 12 hours from Brisbane to Sydney, from gig to keep and he fell asleep at the wheel just as we reached Sydney, which happened to be right across the road from the best orthopedic specialist hospital in Sydney. So thank you, God, you know. Yeah, there's no coincidences. There's no accidents. So they got me over there really fast, and they had me straight into the operating theater straight away. So, I mean, I had tons of different operations, but what happened was, when you're in physics, that much physical agony, you pass out every few minutes. Mm, hmm, and, but I had people and fans and family putting on audio programs of things I'd never heard of before, Affirmations, Visualization, positive stuff, audio books by motivational speakers, inspirational speakers who I'd never heard of, but one of them got to me, and that was a book by a man called Napoleon Hill who wrote a book called Think and Grow Rich. Grow Rich, right? And I didn't care about hearing about all the millionaires in the 1920s in America, male men. Why would a female, young Australian rock singer care about that? But one chapter in there, he talks about how his infant son was born deaf, and he would go into his infant son's room every single night and do affirmations, auto suggestion, you hear perfectly. You are so loved, and you are so loving, etc, etc. And by the time a little boy was nearly four, he had 30% of his hearing. And you know when you hear something, I've never heard of this before, Michael, but you know when you hear something for the first time and you can feel it that it's true. You've just heard something that you know in the marrow of your bones that that what you've just heard is true. So I said, Okay, I can, I can run. Relate to that, because I know that I've used my willpower and my positive thinking, My I've never said I can't do something, I can't have that drama that I want. I've never said that. I've always said it's all possible. Everything is possible. You just go for it. Michelle, and I'd always just go for it. And I was brought up a Catholic, and I wasn't brought up. I wasn't one of those people that hated the church. I loved it. So I always had a belief in God, because I used to go to mass as a little girl every morning with the nuns, because I was in love with Jesus, and I just felt so I had that spirituality in me, and I think that is what is the backbone. You know, in the Bible, it says you do not need to be strong, because Christ is my strength. Christ is your strength. And so now I know that there is so much more to spirituality than just Jesus, but it was a great start for my faith in my life, and it gave me happiness. And so I just had faith that this would work, so I started doing affirmations, but they didn't work. Michael, do you want to know why? Sure, yeah, we've got nothing else to do today, right? May as well. Hear about it well, because neuroscience has proven now that affirmations do work and they do positive thinking actually does make a difference in the brain, in the neural pathways. It does make a difference. It ignites something in different parts of the brain. But back then, in the 80s, there was no way to prove that, you know, let alone Napoleon Hill in the 1920s but the thing that he said was most important is, you have to believe it. You have to emotionalize it. But I couldn't, Michael, I couldn't emotionalize it because I would. I started an affirmation, I am healed. I know I am. I love myself. I am my friend. Now, none of those things were true, so I thought, but I did want them to be true, so I thought, great, I've got the perfect affirmation. But when you are feeling like you're feeling and the world around you is presenting the opposite of what you're saying. Your doubting mind spits it out and does not believe it. So about two, three weeks after stopping the affirmations, because I realized that didn't work, I literally had a spiritual epiphany, and it was, you know, as a songwriter, Michelle, you can't get a song out of your head, even if it's songs you don't like or jingles from advertising agencies. So sing your affirmations. Because I got my brother to look around for affirmation songs, and he said, there isn't any such thing. And so I started singing,   Speaker 1 ** 17:58 I am healed. I know I am I love myself. I am my friend. And   Michele Blood ** 18:05 I recorded it onto a cassette player, just a cappella over and over again. And that was the beginning. As I listened to that all day, every day I would I started feeling better. I started getting back to my attitude, that I can, I can heal it just I realized. And when I was working with Bob Proctor, he said, you know why that works so well? He said, It's because the left side of the brain is where the lyrics are, the affirmation, the right side the melody. And this is even before I started recording it with music, and so you have a whole brain experience. And the song, the doubting mind doesn't have a chance to reject it. It goes straight into your subconscious mind. So that's how my positive affirmation pop music began. I didn't stop doing my other music, but I did have what they said, even the doctors, even though they're not supposed to say it, they said my healing was miraculous, and I ended up on TV shows and in the press and everything about what I'd been through for inspiration. And that's how it all began.   Michael Hingson ** 19:16 It. It really is all about believing it. It's it is so easy just to say something, but without truly accepting it, without truly making it a part of your psyche. However you do that it, it doesn't mean a thing. Don't   Michele Blood ** 19:32 mean a thing if it ain't something. Yeah, you do have to laugh. Do up, do up, do   Michele Blood ** 19:43 Yeah, music makes the world go around. It does,   Michael Hingson ** 19:48 and it's so important to take it seriously enough that you truly do believe it, and that's what's so important. And clearly. What you did? So what happened you you got healed completely, I would assume from all that had happened,   Michele Blood ** 20:10 yeah, I mean, it's still it still took quite a while, but I was determined. I put my high shoes back on, even though they said, don't wear high shoes. And I never intended for the affirmation music to go out to the public. My one of the band members that I work with and wrote songs with John Beatty, Hi John. He he's in person now in Australia with millions of kids, but anyway, we won't help me. Listens, yeah, we went into the recording studio and we, we just started recording. I was writing a lot of songs, and we started recording tons of different affirmation songs in all different styles of you know, from R and B to just rock to ballads to depending on what the song was about, whether it was about, you know, divine love, more of a ballad, more of a some of them just more rock and roll about being successful. And when the press found out that I was actually doing that, then promoters that were bringing out American very, very big, best selling authors asked me to come and do my singing affirmations in between these people. And I said, No, I don't want to do that. I'm not doing it for the public. Was just for me, my band, to have these positive thoughts. And they said, No, we love it. We love it. We want you to do it. And so my very first gig, I'm in Adelaide, Australia, and there's three and a half 1000 people on a Wednesday that came to this gig that paid over $300 each for a ticket, which I thought was absolutely insane. I didn't know what was going on. And I sang, and got all the people up on stage singing the affirmation songs with me made it into like a mini rock concert. And then Deepak Chopra, this, who I'd never heard of, never met before. Wayne Dyer, who I'd never heard of, never met before. Tony Alessandra, Stuart, wild, they were the speakers, and they couldn't believe it when we went out to dinner that night that I've never heard of any of them. And I said, I'm in rock and roll. I'm not in the motivational world. You know, I've, I've never heard of you, because I've not in that world. And so they were interested in how it all began, and they all said, You've got to tour this around the world. You've got to you've got to release these that we love. What you're doing. The audience is so different. Bob Proctor, though he was the one, when I ended up working with him, the promoters said, you know, we've got this female Australian singer, and you're going to be touring with her? And he said, No, I don't want a female singer. I'm Bob Proctor. I don't need that anyway. The first gig I did with him in Sydney, he came out after, and he said, I didn't want to work with a singer. And I said, good to meet you too, mate. I Yes, how are you? And he said, but no, all kidding aside. He said, My wife and I, Linda, we loved it so much, and I want you to work with me all over the world, doing events. So eventually I end up working with Bob for seven years straight. We wrote books together. We wrote music together. We put on huge events. I took over his business, looked after it, and from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, where I lived, and then, and it was just very, very interesting. I've worked in over 26 countries, huge, huge audiences. The biggest one I had was 50,000 people. So to say it was successful is an understatement, but I didn't plan it. I didn't visualize it, but I had always planned on being very well known singer, but it but not to be a positive affirmation or singer. I'd never thought of that, but eventually I went off the grid and started really getting into deep meditation practice and getting off the that whole circuit, because I wanted to find God within me. So that was what happened. And it was fascinating, because it's like working with all these, you know, rock musicians, male rock musicians, and then working with all these male best selling authors. I'm like, I'm always surrounded by the boys.   Michael Hingson ** 24:46 Hey, whatever works, it's, it's interesting though, that that you, you did so much of this, I gather that the audience is reacted very positively, though. Um. Have you heard from anyone that it really changed their life to have encountered you and heard you when you performed? Oh,   Michele Blood ** 25:10 yeah, we've had millions. I mean, we've got a lot of our video video testimonials and testimonials from not just best selling authors that I've worked with, but also from people from all over the world. I work with people in over 32 countries now, and some of them don't even speak English, but they still feel the vibration. And a lot of different people have started singing my songs in different languages, which I allow anyone to do. They don't have to pay me a royalty. They can just do it whatever brings positivity to the world and change within someone, so that they can get out of that rabbit hole. Because you're, you know, your whole podcast about unstoppable mindset. Well, this is such a a great new beginning is to just have to listen to a song. Yeah? And, you know, there's so I've got hundreds of songs to choose from, so it's a good it's a good way to start, because music, you know, like I always say to people, if you have the blues, even though I like blues and I think it's brilliant, but if you have the blues, probably best not to listen to the blues. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 26:21 definitely, definitely true. Well, of course, one has to ask if, if you have one, not necessarily long, but that you want to sing for us all.   Michele Blood ** 26:38 Yeah, I can. I didn't have anything set up. But if you'd like to chat for a minute, I'll just get something set up for you. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 26:45 okay, we can, we can do that. I do. I do agree with you that if you've got the blues, you don't want to listen to the blues. I I personally like happy stuff. I like musicals, especially when they're they're happy musicals. I've always enjoyed that. I do listen and read science fiction and sometimes read some some pretty horrific things. But I've noticed later in my life I'm doing less of that because I, although I like mysteries, I don't like nowadays really graphical or very graphic murder mysteries and things like that, and so people call the kinds of things that I probably typically like cozy mysteries. I wouldn't say that Rex Stout books about neural wolf the private detective are necessarily cozy, but by the same token, they're not the most graphic things, and I've always enjoyed them because they're puzzles. And I love mysteries that are really puzzles that I can become engaged in and try to solve, and musicals I like just because they're fun and and they're they're very happy for the most part. And so again, they're, they're very relevant to to want to listen to. So I, I tend to do that. So it's a lot of fun to keep in the the spirit of reasonably happy and stay away from the blues. Okay,   Michele Blood ** 28:17 I've got something set up now, alright, saying low battery, but oh, sorry. What happened there? There it is. There it is. This song is called synergy. I wrote it with Bob Proctor. Can you hear the music?   Michael Hingson ** 28:35 It's a little low, but yes, go ahead. Better. Yep,   Speaker 1 ** 28:40 there's a way to get it moving, to make it happen, to get high. Can barely flooded in the clouds, join thoughts and let them fly. When your mind joins in with others and all your thoughts to one a US. Energy begins to sizzle and it's energy positive energy synergy. It's energy, hot energy, positive energy turn into synergy. Together, creative power will start to flow. Things begin to happen. You're a church with Synergy. Red Hot energy, positive energy grows into synergy. It's energy, hot energy, positive energy grows into synergy.   Michele Blood ** 29:55 You shine and become magnetic, you'll draw the good. People out the world will be a better place, and everyone will start to shout, face to face, building   Speaker 2 ** 30:12 energy. Taste. The taste is this energy, thoughts, launching into one, a new boss have become this is synergy.   Speaker 1 ** 30:23 It's synergy, red hot energy, positive energy, delta, synergy, it's synergy.   Michael Hingson ** 30:34 There you go. Now   30:36 that's Bob Proctor. Wrote the lyrics for that.   Michael Hingson ** 30:41 But, um, who was the male voice near the end? Oh, the   Michele Blood ** 30:44 male voice was a American guy in who was singing covers in Kuala Lumpur when I lived there, Ah, okay, and I just hired him to come and and do that in the studio in Kuala Lumpur, yeah. But the other affirmation songs are more simple, but they're still got, you know, like a good dance beat, some of them are ballads greeting the day with love in your heart. It just depends on where you want to take your mind that day. Do you want to open your heart? Do you want to be like listen to the persistent song. Do you want to feel more successful? You listen to the success song, which is like 50s, rock and roll. So they're all different. They're all different product, production. So it was a lot of fun changing the different styles for each song depending on the lyrics.   Michael Hingson ** 31:34 Well, if people want to get those affirmation songs and so on, are they available for people to get? Yeah,   Michele Blood ** 31:41 all my albums are sold all over the world, and iTunes, of course, Amazon. My own website is magnet to success. Com. My YouTube channel is Michelle blood.com forward slash YouTube. But I've got lovely giveaways for your for your audience, if you'd like me to share that. Well, we will   Michael Hingson ** 32:03 do that a little bit, okay, but I really appreciate you seeing synergy. I will be, I will be saying that to myself the rest of the day, which is fine, but you know, you mentioned the blues and so on. So here's a question, if somebody is really down and really frustrated, how can they change their life to the positive?   Michele Blood ** 32:31 Well, first of all, even if they are really down, you've got to know, no matter what is going on in your life, that everything is possible for you, and that you can get out of that rabbit hole, and that you are you might feel alone, but you're never alone. Whether you believe in God or you don't believe in God, there is a God and you are looked after. You can pray without begging just giving. One of the most wonderful things you can do is just to start to write down what you're thankful for immediately. If you can say thank you divine, or just thank you for my beautiful life, and if then you can begin to write down what a beautiful life would look like for you, just start writing it down, even though it's not true yet. Like, let's start thinking about what can be done. What do you what sort of friends do you want? What sort of lifestyle do you want? You know, start thinking of others as well. Whenever we can do something, if we can do something every single day that makes somebody else happy, whether it's feeding the homeless or sending funny kitten videos to your friends. You if you can do something every day that brings happiness to somebody else or takes them out of suffering, well, then it'll take you out of yourself. Because if, if it's something emotional that you're going through, that means that you're going to sometimes we do need to go through the emotion, particularly if we're mourning the loss of something or someone that's important and healthy. But it is also important to stop thinking about ourselves so much and look at what can be done for the world. I love I love Saint Vincent de Paul. I love the Salvation Army so much, so you can tithe to them anonymously. If you want to do something you don't know what to do, even if it's just a buck, five bucks, it's really good to tithe to charities that are doing good in the world. And I'm sure there's a charity that you could recommend to us, Michael, that will help with the blind. If you got one, you can recommend?   Michael Hingson ** 34:43 Well, I think there, there really are a number of of places to donate. One of my favorites is the National Federation of the Blind, nfb.org, because it's, it's a consumer organization that fights for the rights of. Of blind people around the United States and actually around the world. And it's the NFB is the largest consumer organization of blind people in this country and, in fact, in the world. But it has made such a difference in the lives of blind people. For example, through the National Federation of blind we completely changed the life insurance industry that refused to provide life insurance for any blind person up until the mid 1980s and when it was finally discovered that they were denying us, not because they had any evidence and actual mathematical models that proved that we were a risk, which is what they're supposed to do. They were doing it strictly out of prejudice. And so now every state in the union, because of the Federation, has actually passed legislation that says you can't discriminate unless you've got real evidence. Well, it's been 40 years, and nobody's come up with evidence that we're a higher risk simply because we're blind or other persons with disabilities, their disabilities directly make them a higher risk. So, you know, that's that's definitely one of my favorite organizations to support. And   Michele Blood ** 36:13 nfb.org everybody. Nfb.org I've written it down for me to start tithing there as well. And,   Michael Hingson ** 36:20 you know, and there, there are so many others. Another organization that I tend to like, it's a very small organization, is advocates for service animal partners asap.org, and and it fights for the rights of people with a variety of disabilities who use service animals, service dogs, to be able to take their dogs with them, where wherever they go, because we're denied. So awesome. So I like asap.org as well.   Michele Blood ** 36:51 I love what you did. I think it was you and Ray and his wife. You were going to a particular restaurant and a a suity maitre d snotty, snooty, wouldn't let you in with your blind dog, with your with your guide dog, right? And and she was really upset the wife. And so you end up gathering quite a few of your friends that are blind, that have guide dogs, and you went in, and he had to oblige and let you all in. And everyone was very nice to you. So that was really good, because that it, it's, it's illegal for them to say you can't come in with your guide dog. It is   Michael Hingson ** 37:28 illegal, and it has been illegal for a long time. One of my favorite stories, which really wasn't a bad story at all, there used to be a restaurant in Boston in Quincy Market called Durgan Park. And Durgan Park was was basically family style, although around the outside of the room they had tables for four but you couldn't sit at one of those tables unless you had four people. Well, we came in one night and there were only three of us and my dog, Holland, and the the host has said, You know what, I'm going to make an exception and let you sit at this table for four so Holland was under the table, and there were three of us, and the waitress came up, and the waitresses at Durgan Park are known as snots. I mean, they're, they're, they're, they're supposed to be really rough and all that. It's just part of the schtick. But she came up and she said, What are you people doing sitting here? And he said, well, the host has put us here. No, she didn't. You're just sitting here. No, she did. It's because of the dog under the table. No, there's no dog under the table. You're not going to make me fall for that. And she walks away, and then she comes back and she said, you're not supposed to be sitting here and all that. I said, Look, there's a dog under the table. Take a look. And it took a while, but I finally got her to look, and there's Holland staring at her with these big brown eyes when she lifts up the the tablecloth, and the next thing I know, she comes back with a big plate. Jurgen Park has very good sized portions of frying rib and says, Can I give this to the dog, oh, and, and normally, I would never do that, but in the for to promote goodwill, I said, Okay, which Hall of love? And, you know, I knew the food there was good, but, you know, it was, it was just one of those great stories. But, yeah, all too often that isn't the way it goes. We see so many challenges with Uber, for example, so many drivers refuse to take blind people or other people with disabilities who have service dogs. It's against the rules, and they say, but it's our car. No, you signed a contract that said that you are going to transport the public, so it is illegal for you to deny us. But they do, and that's one of the things that ASAP, for example, is really working on to address, to get Uber, to recognize that it has to enforce the law like everyone else. But it's a challenge. People come from all sorts of different points of view. You know, with   Michele Blood ** 39:59 the name like. Uber. How could they do that? They're not being very Uber.   40:04 Well, there you go.   Michele Blood ** 40:07 Wow. That's interesting in this day and age. Absolutely, it continues all too often. So many people have slipped into something more comfortable, like a coma. Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 40:18 Now you and your team have created an app. I think it's called what magnet to money. Tell us about that. Yeah,   Michele Blood ** 40:24 it was interesting. Thanks, Michael. I wanted to do because sometimes people like you were talking earlier, how do they get out of their you know, their depression, or whatever they're going through that they're feeling, how do they get out of that rabbit hole? So if you're feeling that way, and your mindset is in a negative state of mind, and you're emotionally not feeling well, well, then it's very, very challenging for you to want to put on some positive, you know, affirmation music. Because I know when I was in the hospital, if people came in and they were too chirpy. I would couldn't wait for them to go because I wasn't oscillating at that frequency. Yeah, you know. So they're all Oh, hi. And so I thought, wouldn't it be great if we had an app and it would just play? As you know, they can choose the notifications how often it will play. And so Polly fella, Trevor Rogers and Johnny and Dara and myself, we worked really hard, especially Holly fella, to develop this app. And it took about two and a half years to develop it. And it's got morning meditations. It's got tons of affirmations with music underneath. It's got a sleep program to help. As they're sleeping, people are sleeping, I'm very softly saying affirmations and positive you know, feed, feed to their minds. And it's also got notifications, so the magnet to money song will play whatever they want to, so they don't have to even remember to and eventually, like someone the other day, said she was in a bank and she had the magnet to Money App, and she had it as her ringtone as well. And she's in this big bank that was hardly anybody in there, but it was quite chamber ish, Echo ish, and she said, and her phone was on pretty loud. It started, I'm a magnet to money came on really loud, and everyone started laughing. They're like, well, that's sort of, I guess, you know, a good thing to play in a bank. Yeah, works. So, yeah, the magnet to Money App is fantastic. App. It's got so much on it, and it's got an audio book you get for free from myself and Bob Proctor called magnet to money through the sea of unlimited consciousness, one one of our books that we did as an audio book, and we thought we've also got a free app, because that magnet to Money App is only about, I think it's $4 or something A month, but the affirmation power app is free, and on that tons of affirmations, plus my affirmation music videos is on there as well. So that's free, if anybody wants that.   Michael Hingson ** 43:13 So yeah, so is that available with Android and Apple and iPhone? No,   Michele Blood ** 43:17 just, just apple at the moment, because to develop for an Android is much more complicated because there are so many different companies, yeah, yes, whereas Apple, it's just the iPhone, but we do intend to, but it's, you know, we've got the manifestation video app as well, and we've got a New App coming out, which is all my audio books. And I'm doing a new audio book every month, not just my books on audio, but other people's books on audio as well. And then the next step after that, is a prayer app, talking about prayer, how to pray, and for me, teaching people the power of prayer. So it's really lovely to be able to do apps that have got positive, you know, the very, very, you know, if they were to buy all those individual products from me to cost hundreds dollars, and this way it's just a few dollars a month all free for them to get all my positive songs and books and all that sort of thing.   Michael Hingson ** 44:17 How do people search for these apps that in the in the app store. I think   Michele Blood ** 44:22 that if they just go under, look under Michelle blood, okay, under my name, yeah, okay, they'll just come up. I   Michael Hingson ** 44:29 will, I will be doing that this afternoon. I think that's that's pretty cool. You know, in in our world today, we become so materialistic in so many ways, but at the same time, a lot of people have really become students of your affirmations and so on. How did they really become students? And I think even more important, one of the questions that I would ask is. How does it really transform, or did it really transform people's consciousness and set them on a road toward a more spiritual path? Because I think in so many ways, we don't see people doing that, and at the same time, I know there are a lot of people who do, but by the same token, there's so many people who go, oh, this is just all pokem. It doesn't really mean anything, but that's just not true.   Michele Blood ** 45:24 Well, I think it's, it's an interesting question to answer, because there are so many different types of people in the world, and we can't expect to change people. They have to, you know, I don't want anyone to suffer. Michael, first of all, so I think having positive thoughts in their head is going to actually make them think less of themselves, believe it or not, these the way the lyrics are done, and more of joy and sharing and caring about other people, because it is so important to to do that, because people, if they get too much into themselves, Like I say to people, don't buy anything if you're buying it. For someone else to be to compliment you, that's a really good way of deciding what you're going to purchase in your life. If you're doing it to you know, to say, Oh, I've got this really nice car. Look how great I am. But get it if you want a good car. Get it because you want a nice, safe car that's good for the environment, but don't get it so that you will impress other people. Unless you're a real estate agent, they do need good cars, apparently, to drive people around, yeah, I guess so. Drive people around,   Michael Hingson ** 46:35 but, or drive people crazy, yeah,   Michele Blood ** 46:37 but. But I also think it's important that that if you want to, you can't tell someone to be more spiritual. They have to get into a positive frame of mindset first. Because when you're in a positive frame of mindset, you start feeling more of a heart blow, more love. And even if you don't believe in God, you believe in love everybody, I know you do, so whether it's your animal that you love, because every animal is an angel, whether it's nature, smelling the remembering to stop and smell the flowers, remembering to not let yourself complain. Complaining will take you down a rabbit hole of absolute negativity and please. People remember, the only reason you're complaining is because you're feeling fear about losing something or not getting something that you want. And so if you can stop complaining for 28 days straight, you will change your life. And I know that sounds impossible, but many people can do it, because I've seen my students do it. So if you can stop complaining and stop half if you're halfway through a complaint about something or someone or politics or Trump or whatever in the hell it is, stop yourself halfway through and just say, Why am I complaining? And people are complaining because they're in fear. If you can stop and be mindful enough to say, I'm complaining because I'm afraid of something, and I don't want to face it and find out what you're afraid of, the thing that you're afraid of will dissipate. Yeah, it really will. So I think that's a really good place to start listening to the positive songs, for sure, going to every single unstoppable mindset podcast you possibly can go to reading Michael's books, and also, just knowing that you can get out of that rabbit hole, it is totally possible, and I've seen it in people from all different cultures and religious backgrounds all over the world. I've traveled to so many different countries, and have so many different audiences, and everybody wants to be loved and be loved in return. And everybody wants to see other people happy at their core. They really do. We don't want to make people unhappy, do you? So stop complaining.   Michael Hingson ** 49:07 You know, it's, it's interesting that you, you talk about all this, one of the things that we talk a lot about, and you'll see it and live like the guide dog, is that we need to become more introspective. Because if we do and we really look at ourselves daily, and, for example, look at what worked today, what didn't work. Why didn't it work? You eventually get to what was I really afraid of? And if you really stop to think about that and go, I didn't need to be afraid of that, your life will change, which is really, as you're pointing out, what it's all about.   Michele Blood ** 49:44 Excellent, excellent. I'm looking forward to reading that as well, and then I've already told everyone to get thunder dog on all my lists. But now I'll be, after I read the next one, I'll be telling them to read that as well, because we're on the same page. Michael.   Michael Hingson ** 49:59 Tell me a little bit about something I've read in your bio, how you went from affirmations to a full kundalini awakening.   Michele Blood ** 50:09 Well, when I was working with Bob Proctor in Asia, I was saying to him one day, I feel this heart blow like I feel like my heart is out of my chest, and I feel such deep love. And it's not for any person, place or thing. It's for everything, actually, but it's beyond that. It's divine. And he said, you're looking for an enlightened teacher. That's what you need. And I said, Well, where do you find an enlightened teacher, and what exactly is that? And he got me to read Autobiography of a Yogi by Hara mahansa Yogananda. And I'd read it before, but I didn't really get it like I did this time when I read it, and I realized that enlightenment wasn't just one person. People can actually meditate and go into higher states of consciousness, but I wasn't thinking of how is an enlightened being around in this modern world? That can't be right? Because I it must be like unless it's Asia maybe. He said, I don't know. He said, I did have a Canadian man who was enlightened, who taught me for three years before he died, left the body. And he said, you just have to pray for it and know that the teacher and the student will find each other. It took me 14 years of searching all over the world, and eventually I found an enlightened teacher in all places America, and I decided to go off the grid, and I really had to to study with her as a student, because she didn't like us to be on Facebook or social media. She said, you don't want attention on yourself when you're studying with me, because you want to be able to go in deeply. Yeah. So I went off. I studied with her for 12 years, but after the first few years, I went into a full awakening myself, never expecting that. Didn't expect it to happen to me. I thought, how could a rock singer in Australia, have a kundalini awakening, but I did, and now I love to teach mysticism and spirituality and meditation practice to students from all over the world. And I love to do it. I think there's so many tools in the toolbox of life, whatever sort of personality you have, whether you're extremely religious or you just want to have more positive outcome. You want to become healthier. I think meditation practice is good for everybody. You do not have to be religious or think of spirituality to enjoy a quiet mind. It'll slow down your blood pressure. It will give you pump your blood, it'll stop your mind from going down a million rabbit holes where your senses take you. I just think meditation practice is a miraculous, privileged thing to do.   Michael Hingson ** 52:53 I agree. And you know, one of the things that it's a little bit off topic for what you just said, but we were talking earlier about people praying and looking for so many things. I'm amazed at how many people pray to God, telling God what they want and what they think they need. And I'm sitting there whenever I hear about that today, especially, I think, Wait a minute, God already knows that what you need to do is to listen to get the response, and thank God for the response, but people just don't do that. I'm just so amazed at at that. But it's it is so true that we spend too much time not doing the thing that we really need to do, which is listening and talking with God, not talking to God.   Michele Blood ** 53:46 Yeah, that's why I I'm loving recording the new prayer app, because I explain to people what prayer actually is. It's not If you do this for me, God, I'll start, stop eating pizza, yeah? Or maybe trade off. So I teach people what prayer actually is, and it's, it's really the most sacred thing and beautiful thing, and it will uplift you, even if you just, I've got a section where they I'm praying for others, so they can just listen to any different topic of what type of prayer, but the main thing for me was explaining, doing the introduction of what prayer is and how to pray, because so many people have no idea what prayer really is, that communion with your higher self, and once you get to understand what that is, then you can hear that still, small voice you can literally hear through. Ah, your intuition becomes stronger you can and intuition is you being in tune with your higher self. And your higher self is omniscient wisdom. It created everything so it knows what. To tell you to do, and it will bring into your experience everything when you accept, when you can be open and receptive to receive and to give, just sort of let yourself go, just surrender to that divine Higher Self, when you can learn how to do that. That's another thing that I do on this prayer app is teach you what surrender really means and how you can do it. It's not taking your willpower away from you, because everyone that's a gift that we've been given. So we can make good choices in life, sometimes bad choices, but we can use our willpower to get ourselves out of that rabbit hole. So thank you for asking that. Michael, it's   Michael Hingson ** 55:41 extremely important to be able to do that. Well, you mentioned earlier that you had gifts for people listening to this podcast. Love it if you tell us about that,   Michele Blood ** 55:52 yes, yummy gifts. If you go to Michelle. Blood com, it's spelled M, I, C, H, E, L, E, B, L, O, O, O, d.com, forward slash unstoppable mindset. We've called that. We've made that link especially for Michael's podcast. Just for your people, they will get the audio version of one of my favorite books I've written called the magic of affirmation power audio book. They will get that for free, but in that audio book has tons of affirmations you can repeat after me, links to some of my music for free. You'll also get a six week mysticism course, and there are other things as well. I can't remember what they are right now, but they're all on that link.   Michael Hingson ** 56:37 But Michelle blood com slash unstoppable mindset. I thank you for the otter. Appreciate that. Well now if people want to come hear you, I know you do live events and you do zoom events and so on. How can we learn about that? How can people do that?   Michele Blood ** 56:57 Well, they can go to request Divine light.com to find out what is my next event, because I have free events, a lot a lot of free zoom events people can come to, and you'll just get to meet so many happy, lovely people from so many different countries. And we just have a blast together. And you'll be very, very uplifted after everyone, because everyone that comes on are just, we seem to be attracting, over the years, just people that are really, sincerely wanting a better life and to do it, to do good in the world. And I just love them all so much. So if they go to request Divine Light com, they can see where my next free event will be. I mean, it's on Zoom, but I mean when it will be   Michael Hingson ** 57:46 right? Request, divine light. Com, cool. Well, I really appreciate you coming on. And obviously people can go to Michelle blood, com, and there's a lot there, I would assume as well. So hopefully people will go, go check out everything that's there, and we'll take this seriously, because I think there is so much that you have offered. We've had a number of people on unstoppable mindset who talk about everything from reg a to Eastern medicine, meditation and and so many things. They all can't be totally wrong. So from my perspective, they are not wrong. But by the same token, it's fun to be able to get a chance to to have you on. We'll have to do this again, and I'm going to certainly go download the apps and put them on my nice little iPhone and start taking advantage of them. But I really appreciate you coming on and and being with us for an hour today. Well,   Michele Blood ** 58:51 Michael, thank you for the books that you've written and everything that you've done in the world. I just think you're just an inspiration and just a lovely, lovely man. So thank you. It's, it's lovely getting to know you. And I'm just going to tell everyone about these books, because they're amazing, well written as well. Just really, really good.   Michael Hingson ** 59:13 Well, thank you. So, when are you going to do a podcast? I'm going   Michele Blood ** 59:17 to do a podcast with a man called just I just had a brain fart. Thomas Miller, uh, at the moment, his podcast is called subconscious mind mastery, and he's interviewed me quite a few times. We met in person, and I love his outlook on life, about really not saying no to anything that's mystical. And so we're going to start one next year together. He's already got his own, but this will be a different one where we'll go a little deeper, a deeper dive into mysticism. I think we're going to call it well,   Michael Hingson ** 59:55 if he needs a guess for his existing podcast, if he has guests or. You guys have your podcast together. If you ever want a guest, I volunteer. So I'll just, Oh,   Michele Blood ** 1:00:05 I'll tell him today. Goodness, yes,   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:10 I'm, I'm always, I'm always open for that. Oh,   Michele Blood ** 1:00:13 I'll tell him today. Yeah, because you, I love you.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:18 Well, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening. I hope you enjoyed this at least half as much as I did, hopefully as much as I did. This has been a lot of fun and educational, I think, in so many ways, to help us deal with our outlooks on life. I'd love to hear your thoughts about it. Please feel free to email me. Michael h i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I b, e.com, or go to our podcast website, w, w, w, dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, and that's m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, o, n. So Michael hingson.com/podcast, and wherever you're listening, please give us a five star review. We really value your reviews. But of course, love the five star ones, so if we can, we would really appreciate it if you give us a five star review and and say, say good things about us and and go off and definitely visit Michelle's pages. And, of course, being very prejudiced, go to Michelle blood com slash unstoppable mindset and get some free gifts from her. And if you know of anyone who you think would be a good guest, and Michelle you as well. I'm always looking for podcast guests, so okay, don't hesitate to to refer people to us. We appreciate that a whole lot. So once again, I want to thank you for being here. Michelle, this has been a lot of fun. Thank   Michele Blood ** 1:01:45 you. Michael, God bless you. More love everyone. More Love   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:54   You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Our guest this time, Kane Brolin, will quickly and gladly tell you that as a blind person born in Iowa in 1965 he was mightily blessed to be born in that state as it had the best programs for blind people in the nation. Kane was born prematurely and, because of being given too much oxygen he became blind due to a condition known as retinopathy O. Prematurity. In fact I am blind due to the same circumstance. As it turns out, Kane and I share a great many life experiences especially because of the attitudes of our parents who all thought we could do whatever we put our minds to doing. Kane attended public school and then went to Iowa State University. He wanted to be a DJ and had a bit of an opportunity to live his dream. However, jobs were scarce and eventually he decided to go back to school at Northwestern University in Illinois. He formed his own financial and investment company which has been in business since 2002. He is a certified financial planner and has earned the Chartered Special Needs Consultant® designation.   We talk quite a bit about financial matters and he gives some sage advice about what people may realize are good investment ideas. He talks about investing in the stock market and urges investing for the long term. I leave it to him to discuss this in more depth.   Kane is quite committed to “pay it forward” insofar as dealing with blind people is concerned. He is currently the president of the National Federation of the Blind of Indiana. He also serves as a member of the Board of Directors for Penny Forward, Inc., a not-for-profit founded and run by blind people which strives to build a diverse and aspirationally-focused community of blind people who help one another achieve financial fitness, gainful employment, and overall fulfilment in life.   I find Kane quite inspirational and I hope you will do so as well. He has much to offer and he provided many good life lessons not only about financial matters, but also about blindness and blind people.       About the Guest:   Born in 1965, Kane Brolin spent his formative years in the state of Iowa and later went on to earn a Master's degree from the JL Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois, which is near Chicago.  Since the year 2002, he has owned and operated a financial planning and investment management business based in Mishawaka, Indiana, located not far from The University of Notre Dame.  Over the years, he has become a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ Professional and has earned the Chartered Special Needs Consultant® designation.  When doing business with his clients, securities and Advisory Services are offered through Commonwealth Financial Network, a Registered Investment Advisor which is a Member of FINRA and SIPC,.   Having been totally blind for all his life, Kane feels indebted to many people who selflessly gave of their time, talent, and resources to help him acquire the education, skills, and confidence that enable him to lead a busy and productive life in service to others.  Many of those who made the biggest impact when Kane was growing up, also happened to be members of the National Federation of the Blind.  So after getting established on his current career path, he increasingly felt the impulse to give back to the organized blind movement which had served his needs from an early age.   Kane co-founded the Michiana Chapter in the National Federation of the Blind in 2012 and subsequently was elected to serve a two-year term as president of the Indiana State Affiliate of the NFB in October, 2022.  He is thankful for the early introduction of Braille, as well as for the consistent drumbeat from parents, peers, and professors which set and reinforced continuously high expectations.     In addition to his work with the NFB, Kane serves as a member of the Board of Directors for Penny Forward, Inc., a not-for-profit founded and run by blind people which strives to build a diverse and aspirationally-focused community of blind people who help one another achieve financial fitness, gainful employment, and overall fulfilment in life.   Kane lives in Mishawaka with Danika, his wife of 27 years, and their four children.  Kane and Danika were active foster parents for 11 years.  The Brolin family have been committed to numerous civic organizations; they and their family are active in their place of worship.  Giving back to the world is a continuously high priority.  They endeavor to teach their children by example, and they impart to them the wisdom of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.: “You can all be great, because you can all serve.”   Ways to connect with Rob:   BrolinWealth.com LinkedIn public profile nfb-in.org pennyforward.com   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Hi, everyone. I am your host, Michael Hingson, or you can call me Mike. It's okay. And this is unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity in the unexpected. Meet today. We're going to do a little bit of all. We're inclusive because my guest Kane Brolin, or if you're from Sweden, it's Brolin, and it's pronounced Brolin, not Brolin, but Kane bralin, or broline, is in Indiana, and Kane also happens to be blind, and has been blind his entire life. We'll get into that. He is very much involved in investing and dealing with money matters that I'm interested to get a chance to really chat about it's always fun to talk to people about how they're helping people with finances and money and getting insights. And I'm sure that he has some to to offer. So we'll get to that. Kane also happens to be the president of the National Federation of the Blind of Indiana, and so that keeps him busy, so he deals with money, and he's a politician to boot. So what else can you ask for? I pick on Kane by doing that, but nevertheless, Kane, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're here. Thank   Kane Brolin ** 02:34 you. And there are there are times when the politics and the money issues can be a dream. There are other times it can be an absolute nightmare, either one, either one or both and and the thing that ties those together in common ground is that I walk in in the morning, and sometimes they have no idea what I'm about to walk into. So it does make for an adventure. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 02:57 the Fed has lowered interest rates. What do you think about that?   Kane Brolin ** 03:01 Well, there is some ramification for what happens in the consumer marketplace. The main thing that I've been hearing today is that even with those lowering of short term interest rates, you're seeing some long term interest rates go down the mortgage rates, especially, and those two are not necessarily always related. You don't always see the long term interest rates that the market determines through supply and demand. They don't always go in sync with the short term baseline rate that the Federal Reserve banking system sets, but in this particular case, they are, and what I've been reading this morning is that that may be at least good news in the short run for consumers, because they'll be paying Lower interest for new mortgages and also perhaps lower credit card rates or credit card payments. Of course, the downside is that if one invests and is lending money instead of borrowing it, that means sometimes lower rates of income that you can get from things like a certificate of deposit or an annuity. So there's always two sides of the same coin, and then it depends on which side you happen to be looking at. At the moment, right now, the market seems to like this convergence of interest rate activities, and the stock market has generally been up today. So by the time people hear this, that won't matter because it's a whole different day, but, but right now, the early returns coming in are pretty good for the the common human being out there trying to just manage their money.   Michael Hingson ** 04:54 Well, that's not really surprising, in a sense, because rates have been high for a while. Yeah, and things have been tough. So it's not surprising that people have made, and I would put it this way, to a degree, the marketing decision to respond favorably to the rates going down, and I know there's been a lot of pressure for the thread to lower its rate, and so they did. And I think that a lot of different entities kind of had to respond in a reasonably positive way, because they kept saying that it's time that the rates go down. So they had to respond. So we'll see how it it all goes. I   Kane Brolin ** 05:33 think, you know, and there's an issue I think that's salient to people with disabilities, blind people, included, if it's less expensive for the consumer to borrow money, it should follow that in the coming weeks, it should be less expensive for businesses to borrow money if they need some, and they may be more inclined to open up more jobs to people or to not shrink the jobs or The hiring that they have done by laying people off so and that's what I was just about. No one is a recession, and so it may mean that there are openings, there's room in the job market for more of us, because the thing I'm most passionate about in this whole game of helping blind people is getting us access to money and getting us access to gainful permanent work.   Michael Hingson ** 06:24 And that's what I was actually going to going to talk about, or not talk about a long time, but, but mention was that the real test will be how it affects the job market and the unemployment rate and so on. And I hope that that that will go down. I know it's been sort of ticking up a little bit, although in reality, of course, for persons with disabilities, the unemployment rate is a whole lot higher than around 4% so it'll be interesting to see how all that goes all the way around. But even just the national unemployment rate, I would hope that if that has been an excuse because the rates have been high, that now we'll see that start to drop, and, you know, so we'll see. But I think it's a it's going to be one of those waiting games to see how the world responds. Of course, we have a whole political thing going on with the election and I'm sure that some people on the political side like the the drop better than people on the other side do, but again, we'll see how it all goes. So it's it makes life fun. Well, tell me a little bit about you, if you would, sort of maybe the early cane growing up and all that sort of stuff. You were born, according to your bio, back in 1965 so I was 15 at the time, so I remember the year. So you've, you've been around a little while, though, however, so tell us a little bit about the early cane.   Kane Brolin ** 07:54 Yeah, I don't remember too many years, or any years, really, prior to about maybe 1971 or 72 with any degree of real clarity. You know, I would say that my early years were a mixed bag, but in the main they were good, of course, being immediately confronted with rLf, or retinopathy of prematurity, as they call it these days, and being blind from the very beginning, most people would probably out there consider it a tragedy. But if I if I knew that it was my fate to be a blind person, which I suppose it is, then I won the lottery as being a blind person, I think. And that might be a controversial statement, but the truth is that there is no place in the United States, and probably no place in the world that would have been better for me to grow up in in the late 1960s and 1970s than in Iowa, because now there was, there was no other blindness in my family. It's not hereditary. My parents had no idea how to deal with it in the very beginning.   Michael Hingson ** 09:12 Were you born prematurely? I was, yeah, which is why I weigh you have that   Kane Brolin ** 09:16 something like two pounds, 10 ounces at birth. So there is a part of me that realizes that I am very fortunate to be alive, and I'm very fortunate that my brain has functioned pretty well for most of my life. You can't always count on that either, you know, and when you get when you get older, my my father was a very bright person, and yet he lived during the last 10 years of his life, he struggled with dementia and some other problems so but I can say that I've had a good run so far, and you know what they what they didn't know. At least my parents and others in my family knew what they didn't know. And I. But when you don't know what you don't know, you flounder and and settle for almost anything, including fear. But when you know what you don't know, then you understand you need to research things. And I happened to be in a state that had been graced by the presence of Dr Kenneth Jernigan, principally. And of course, other people that I had no idea who they were at that time. You know, folks like James gaschell and James on VIG right, and and others. I think Joanne Wilson came out of that mix. I didn't know her either, but I've read about all these people in the past, but, but first and foremost, my parents found out that Dr Jernigan was number one, very brilliant. Number two did not settle for low expectations. And number three had the advantage of being both the head of the Iowa Commission for the Blind, which was a state sanctioned Agency, and the National Federation of the Blind, which is, or, you know, has been for most of the last 84 years, the leading advocacy organization and civil rights organization of the Blind in in the United States. Now, I'm not here to make a political point about that, but in Iowa, they were definitely more well known than anyone was, and because he could pull strings which influence things like educational budgets, and he also had very much a civil rights mindset and an aggressive mindset of going forward and breaking down barriers, this is a rare combo platter of traits and possibilities that I very much benefited from. And when I say that, I mean that from the very beginning, at five or six years old, I had Braille. I didn't have Braille in the beginning, but, but my parents did and and my dad actually knew enough about it to construct a set of blocks with print lettering on one side, Braille on the other side. And so not only did I have a really good teacher in my first couple of years of public school education named Doris Willoughby, some may be familiar with her. I know Doris will rip she has passed on in the past couple years, but she made a great impact in in my life, and a very deep impact in others lives too. But because of her influence and like minded people, I had access to books. I had access to mostly mainstreamed integrated education, where I was in the classroom with other sighted students, except for certain parts of certain days, you know, I had access to a great big wall mounted tactile map that was like a puzzle. And I understand Dr Jernigan designed that one too, where I could actually feel and take apart the states of the Union. And so I could tell where Oklahoma was, where Massachusetts was, where Indiana is. I could tell the shapes of the various states. I thought it was kind of curious that California, where you are from, Michael, is shaped very much like a banana, or at least that's what occurred to me at that time. I had recorded books. I had talking books. And you know, while there are things I did not get out of a mainstream public education that I kind of wish I had gotten out of it, from a social standpoint, from an athletic standpoint, the academics were on point, and I had access to resources, and I kind of just was living in a in a dream world, in a way, because even through my college days, I thought, Well, gee, it's great that we have all this now. Why is there all this blind civil rights stuff going on now? Because this was solved from the beginning of my childhood. Little did I realize that that is not the case in most other parts of the country or the world, but I got what I needed to at least have a shot on goal at success, and I'm very grateful for that, and it's one of the reasons that I have chosen to dedicate a portion of my life, during my prime working years, even to the National Federation of the Blind, because I want to pay this forward and help out some people that may not have had all the advantages that I had, even, even in the bygone days that I was growing up,   Michael Hingson ** 14:23 sure? So tell me, because I went through some of the same experiences you did in terms of being born premature and becoming blind due to rLf, which stands for retro enteral fibroplasia. And if people want to know how to spell that, they can go by thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog, and the triumph of trust at ground zero. And you can learn how to spell it there, because I don't remember how to spell it. We put it in the book, but that's what I remember. But so when you be when it was discovered that you were blind, how did your parents handle that? What did they say? Right? What did the doctors say to them? Because my experience was and, you know, of course, I didn't know it at the time, but my parents told me later that the doctor said, send him off to a home because he could never amount to anything, because no blind child could ever contribute to society. What was, if, from your understanding from your parents, what was what happened to you? If any   Kane Brolin ** 15:21 doctor ever said that to them? They never told me about it. What I what I do know is that there is an eye doctor that was a part of their lives, who I saw a couple of times, probably in my childhood, who was a a female optometrist or maybe an ophthalmologist in the area, and they really had a lot of respect for her. I never felt marginalized or dismissed. Yeah, as a part of my childhood, part of it is that I don't think my parents would have tolerated that, and my   Michael Hingson ** 15:55 parents didn't, either my parents and my parents didn't either they said, No, you're wrong. He can grow up to do whatever he wants, and we're going we're going to give him that opportunity. And they brought me up that way, which is, of course, part of what led to my psyche being what it is. And I too, believe in paying it forward and doing work to try to educate people about blindness and so on, and supporting and and I've been involved with the National Federation of the Blind since 1972 so it's been a while. Yeah, I would say,   Kane Brolin ** 16:27 I know I remember. I have a very, very fuzzy memory of being four, maybe five years old, and I know that they considered putting me into the Iowa Braille and sight saving School, which was a school for the blind in Iowa no longer exists, by the way, but they did consider it and decided against it. I don't think they wanted me to just go off to boarding school I was five. I know that that does work for some people, and I know that in later years, I've read that in some cases, even Dr Jernigan believed that schools for the blind were better, especially in places where there wasn't a truly sincere effort by public school systems to integrate and set high expectations for blind students. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 17:13 of course, here in California, for example, in the 50s and so on, as the California School for the Blind we had and and earlier, Dr Newell Perry, among others, who was a blind mathematician. Of course, Dr tembrech was was out here, and there were values and reasons why the schools could make a difference. My parents were pushed really hard by my elementary school principal to send me off to that school, and I actually remember hearing shouting matches between them, because parents said ah and and I didn't go to the school. I don't know what it was like by the time we moved out here and we were putting me in kindergarten, first and second grade. So like in 5657 I'm not sure what the school was like, but my parents didn't want me to not have a real home environment. So, you know,   Kane Brolin ** 18:12 yeah, and so, you know, I remember my childhood is, well, it wasn't like everybody else's childhood. One of the the issues happened to be that my the neighborhood that my family lived in, did not have a lot of kids in it that were my age for most of the time I was there, the schools in the early to mid 70s at least that admitted blind students in the town that I grew up in, which was Cedar Rapids, Iowa, there was only one set of schools on the opposite side of town where they were sending blind kids for those resources. Now that later changed and the decision was made. I guess I made the decision to stay out there. So one of the differences was that I was bussed from the southeast side of town to the southwest side of town. So there were kids I got to know through school, but I didn't have any kind of social life with most of them, with a couple different exceptions, through my childhood. So it was a lot of academics, it wasn't a lot of play time, right? That certainly informed how I grew up, and it's made me a little bit struggle to understand and and be a really sensitive, playful, patient type parent, because my my kids and I'll, we'll go there when we get there, but my, my children, I have four, they're all still in home right now, are very normal kind of rambunctious kids that enjoy and struggle with the same things that any other kids do. They are all sighted, but, but my parents were. Was pretty strict. They set high expectations, but some of that was high expectations for behavior as well. So I really wasn't ramming around and causing trouble and getting into mischief and, you know, getting on my bike and riding for miles outside the way kids did in the 70s. So there there were limitations in my childhood, but, but, you know, my parents, too, expected me to utilize and to have the resources that would lead me to be anything I wanted to be. And I honestly think that if I had said, I want to be the President of the United States, they would not have ruled it out. Now, the only thing I've really been president of is several different civic organizations and the Indiana branch of the NFB. You know, that's something not everyone does. I've interviewed a governor before when I was a journalism student. That was fun, and I've met congress people, but they did not set the limitations. You know, sometimes maybe I did, but but they didn't. And so I'm really grateful for that, that as long as I knew what I wanted, they made sure that I had the tools and access to whatever training they knew about that could help me to   Michael Hingson ** 21:18 get there. So you you went through school. And I think our our younger lives were fairly similar, because I also, when I went into fourth grade, and we finally had a resource teacher in the area, I was bused to the other side of town for that. And all of that kind of came together when I started high school, because everyone in Palmdale went to the same high school, so anyone I knew prior to going across town, I got to know again, and still knew as as friends growing up, but we all went to high school together. But you know, I hear exactly what you're saying, and my parents did not impose limitations either, and I'm very blessed for that. But you went through school and then you went to college. Tell me about college.   Kane Brolin ** 22:19 It was a fun experience. Glad that I went through it. I attended Iowa State University for my bachelor's degree. I know that you've never, ever heard this before, but I really dreamed about being a radio personality. And I say that sarcastically. It's what I wanted to be, because I had a cousin that was in the business. But of course, since then, as I've gotten more into blind blindness culture and met many other people that I never knew growing up, I know that that the media and especially radio as a gift, is really fascinating to many of us, and a lot of us have had rotations in different parts of that, especially with the advent of the internet, but this was back during the 70s and 80s, and what I wanted to be at first was a DJ. Used to pretend to be one at home all the time and then, but I also knew where the library was, and I developed a great love of books and information and data. To some degree, I wasn't really a math guy, more of a word guy, but I then developed a deep interest in journalism and investigation and research, and so by the middle to late 80s, what I wanted to be was, let's just call it the next Peter Jennings, if one can remember who that is, right. And I'm sure that there are probably, you know, facsimiles of him today,   Michael Hingson ** 23:50 but it's hard to be a facsimile of Peter Jennings. But yeah, he really is,   Kane Brolin ** 23:55 and that he was great and but you know the disadvantage, the advantage and the disadvantage of going to Iowa State University. I Why did I go there? Because any of my few relatives that had gone to college, including my dad, had had gone there. My dad was very loyal to his alma mater, and he told both myself and my sister, who is a very different person and not blind at all. If it was good enough for me, it's good enough for you, and if you want me to pay for it, here's where you're going to go. Now, Iowa State is mostly an engineering and agricultural school. It's a land grant institution. And I know that land grant institutions are a little controversial in today's climate where there is more of an emphasis on diversity, equity, inclusion and making up for some past societal wrongs, but these are deeply respected institutions that mainly turned out people that ended up well, doing things like building. Bridges and being mechanical engineers and developing new seed corn hybrids and things of this nature. It did have a telecommunicative arts program, and I was in it, but there were very few of us in it, and I did get a chance to get my hands on the equipment. I was a broadcaster, first on a student radio station at Iowa State called K usr. Then I actually did work for pay, sort of for a number of years for w, O I am and FM, which were flagship stations of what we would now call the the NPR network. You know, these were around since the 20s, and I actually did work for them. I was on air a little bit. I ran the control board a lot, and I worked for those two stations on a part time basis, probably about a three quarter time basis, for several years after leaving college, and it was really a student job, but I had trouble finding any other more meaningful work in the industry. What I gradually came to find out is that I loved radio, but radio really didn't love me, and I wasn't really thinking strategically. At that time, I graduated in 1988 it is that very same year that a little known figure from Kansas City named Rush Limbaugh hit the American airwaves like a ton of bricks. And because of him and some other people like him, all of a sudden, local stations realized that they could drop their news and information programming, stop hiring so many people, and because Mr. Limbaugh was as popular as he was, they could basically run a lot of satellite based programming, have somebody sort of halfway monitor the board and hire somebody else to program computer systems that would put automated commercial breaks on and things like this, and they wouldn't really have to produce local content. We also saw the elimination of the equal time standard and the Fairness Doctrine, which required local stations to put on a variety of viewpoints and air programming every week that was in the public interest, that didn't necessarily have commercial value. And so the things I wanted to do became a lot harder to do, because by the time I was ready to get hired to do them, not a lot of radio stations were hiring people to do it, even in the even in the television world, and so strategically, I was buying into a sinking market, and That wasn't a great place to be at that time. And so with some reluctance, after a lot of fruitless job searching, I chose another path, not necessarily knowing where that path would lead. And so the last time I ever got paid to run a shift for a radio station was in late June of 1993 I've been a guest on a couple of different shows and some podcasts like this one. I greatly enjoy it. I've even thought about doing some internet broadcasting. I don't have the time, really to do that now, but, but, and I miss it, but I have found out there are ways of diverting the skill sets I have to another path.   Michael Hingson ** 28:25 And what path did you choose?   Kane Brolin ** 28:28 Initially, the path I chose was graduate school. I was fortunate enough to have gotten good enough grades that I was able to get approved by a number of different business schools. You know, the first path I really wanted to do is be a Foreign Service Officer for the diplomatic corps. I applied for the US Department of State. And I had some hopes in doing that, because around 1990 a gentleman named Rami Rabbi. You may know him, I do did became the first blind person ever to be a Foreign Service Officer. Now, he had advantages. He had traveled the world. I had traveled to Mexico and Costa Rica, and I spoke Spanish, and I was pretty fluent, but he was a little bit more qualified in different ways that they were looking for. So I wanted some international experience. I applied for the Peace Corps, and I had no real shot at that. What they were looking for was something very different from what I was then. But I did apply to the Foreign Service, and I made it almost all the way down the hiring process. I made the final 3% cut among the class they were looking at in 1990 and 91 I went to Virginia to, I think Alexandria and I sat for the last round of interviews and simulations that they did. Unfortunately, I was in the top 3% and they wanted the top 1% so I had a really fun few days out there at the government's expense. But I also found that I was not going to be hired to be the second blind. Foreign Service officer. I later found out that Mr. Robbie had to actually file a lawsuit and win that lawsuit to get his opportunity. So I know that the system were not exactly bought in to blame people doing this on a regular basis. I know there's others that have gotten there since that, and I've met one of them, but but that that wasn't for me, but they also said what I really needed was more management experience. I'd never done anything in management, so I decided to go to management school or business school as graduate school. I got accepted by a few different places. I chose Northwestern University in Chicago. My sister had gone through that program. I guess that's maybe one of the reasons I selected that one. I could have gone to a couple of others that also had accepted me, and sometimes I wonder what would have happened had I done that. But I did spend two years in Chicago land met some of the most impressive people that I've ever met in my life. Figured out train systems and pace bus systems, and went all over the place and had friends in the city, not just in the school. I made the most of that time, and that's what I did from 1993 to 1995 unfortunately, I found out you can get a an MBA or a master of management, but they still, still weren't hiring a lot of blind people out there. And so while my associates were getting jobs at McKinsey and Company, and Booz Allen Hamilton, as it was known at that time, and they were working for Bank of America, doing all kinds of interesting things and and also brand management companies like disco and Kellogg and all that. I got all of one job offer coming out of one of the top 5b schools in the country, and I took that job offer, which led me to Midland, Michigan, where I knew nobody at that time, but I spent about three and a half years doing various types of business research for the Dow Chemical Company, and that did not last as a career, but I got a chance to make the first real money I had ever earned. At that time through another connection that wasn't related to Dow, I happened to meet the woman that I eventually married and am with now, and have had four kids with, and so that was a whole different kettle of fish. But at the end of 98 I was downsized, along with several others in my department, and we decided at that time that entrepreneurship was probably not a bad way to go, or, you know, something that wasn't just strictly speaking corporate. In 2000 I landed in the South Bend, Indiana area, which is where she is from. I had never lived here before. This is where I am now. And while struggling to find a place here, I realized that I could get hired on as what is called a financial advisor. I had no idea what that was. Well, you know, with a business degree, I could probably be a credible hire as a financial advisor. Little did I know that that involved tele sales. In the very beginning, never thought I was a salesperson either. Since then, I have found out that I have more selling ability than I had ever thought that I might and that that is an honorable profession if you're convincing people to do what is right for themselves. And so I've found that over the years, being what I am enables me to, well, in a way, keep my own hours. We've chosen the small business, sort of independent contracting route, rather than the employee channel, working for a bank or for somebody else's brokerage. I get to be a researcher, I get to be a public speaker now and then, and I get to help people problem solve, which is something I would not have had a chance to do on the radio. And when someone comes up to you, as a few people have and have, said, you know, thank you for making it possible for me to retire and to do what I want to do, and to spend time with grandkids and to live where I want to live. You know, that's a that's definitely a hit. That's a great feeling to have someone say, Thank you for helping me to do and to be what I didn't know I could do or be. So   Michael Hingson ** 34:38 investing isn't what you had originally planned to do with your life. So I can't say that it was necessarily a lifelong goal from the beginning, but you evolved into it, and it seems to be going pretty well for you.   Kane Brolin ** 34:51 Well, yeah, I think it has. It's investing means different things to different. People, to some clients, the goal is, I just don't want to lose money. Please put me in something that earns a little bit, but I don't want the chance for anything I'm in to go down for others. What investing means is, I want to be more aggressive. I want to build what I have. What do you think about this or that opportunity? What stock should I be in? Because I really want to grab onto an opportunity and seize the day and have as much as I can have at the end of the day. And you know, For still others, it means, it means giving. It means building something up so I can pass it along, either to a charity, to the kids, to the grandkids, to to my religious institution of choice, whatever that is. So I find that investing is not just investing, the the at the root, at the heart of investing, the heartbeat of it, is really the people that I serve. And you know, I was told early on, hey, you don't have a practice. All you're doing is practicing, unless you have people to be in front of. And so in my mind, you know, and I'm not that much of a quantitative guy. I'm I'm not the person out there working as an actuary for Symmetra Life Insurance Company figuring out how much money has to go in and how much it must earn to be able to give 50,000 people the payouts they want from an annuity till the end of their projected lifespans. That's that's not where I am. I'm not designing a mutual fund that's more like what a certified financial analyst would be. I am a Certified Financial Planner practitioner, and what a CFP does is takes numbers that you see and translates those into action steps that I can explain in plain English terms to a client I'm in front of that can give that individual person, family or small business the kinds of outcomes that they want. So I'm on the retail end of the food chain, and my job is to try to take the numbers that others are generating and boil that down into something that is digestible to the common man and woman, that allows them to, we hope, live the way they want. So   Michael Hingson ** 37:29 I gather from listening to you though, that you enjoy what you do.   Kane Brolin ** 37:36 I do particularly when it works.   Michael Hingson ** 37:39 Well, there's times.   Kane Brolin ** 37:40 There are times it gets a little tricky. 2001 2002 I know that you had a very personal experience that vaulted you, Michael, into this, into the realm of the famous, or the Almost Famous, on 911 I remember what 911 was like as a very small time retail investment person working out of a field office. I was somebody's employee at that point. I was working for American Express financial advisors, and I remember my life was never in danger in 911 but there were a lot of clients that thought their money and their data were in danger, and then the country that the country itself, might even be in danger. And so I morphed during that week from being a telemarketing person trying to set appointments with people I'd never met to being a person who was trying to dole out comfort and a feeling of security and solace to people I had met who the few that I was managing their accounts at that time, calling them and saying, You know what, your money and your data are safe. I'm here. The company that you have your stuff invested with is based in Minneapolis. It's not based in the Twin Towers, the markets are shut down. There will be volatility, but you're not crashing today, just so   Michael Hingson ** 39:08 the other the other side of it, the other side of that, was that during that week after September 11, there were a lot of people who were working and moving, literally Heaven and Earth, if you will, to bring Wall Street back. And I know I'm working with some of those companies and providing them with the backup equipment, or not so much at the time, backup equipment, but the equipment that would be able to read existing tape backups and put that back on computers. And I know, I think it was Morgan Stanley had found an office space sometime during the week after September 11. Then, as they describe it, it was the building with a floor the size of a foot. Football field, and they scrounged and scavenged and got their providers of equipment, like IBM to provide them with computers, even taking them from IBM employees desks to provide enough equipment to be able to set up what was the equivalent to the trading floor that had been in the world trade center that was destroyed on September 11, and literally from Friday afternoon that would have been the 14th to the 16th in 36 hours. They not only reconstructed physically what the trading floor was but because of what we provided them with, they were able to completely reconstruct what everything looked like on their computers. So when Wall Street reopened on the 17th, everything was like it was when everything shut down on the 11th now, I think there's some blessings to the fact that the towers were struck before Wall Street opened. I don't know how much easier that made it maybe some, but the reality is that data is backed up regularly, so they would have been able to to survive, but the fact that the markets hadn't opened in the US certainly had to help. But by Monday, the 17th, they brought Wall Street back, just as if nothing had happened. It was a monumental feat to be able to do that. That is a story   Kane Brolin ** 41:37 that I would love to read, because I've never heard that story before, and that makes me feel very unintelligent. Michael, you know, I can't even imagine the logistics and the people and just even the imagination that it would take to reconstruct that. I'm sure it was 1000s. I'm sure it was 1000s of people. And I'm sure that probably that's something that somebody had thought about even before the 911 incident happened. I don't think that was invented out of whole cloth on Friday the 14th, but that's a story that would be a very captivating book, and if no one's written it, then, gosh, would that be a fun thing to research and write.   Michael Hingson ** 42:21 Well, you know, the reality is, the SEC required that all data from financial institutions had to be backed up and kept available off site for seven years. So first of all, the data was all around and that's why I think it was an especially great blessing that the markets hadn't opened, because all the backups from the previous night, and probably from all the not only the futures, but the sales from foreign markets, were pretty much all backed up as well. So everything was backed up. That, of course, was the real key, because getting the hardware, yes, that was a logistical nightmare that they were able to address, getting the computers, getting everything where they needed it. Then companies like ours providing them with the wherewithal to be able to pull the data from the tapes and put it back onto the computers. It had to be quite a feat, but it all worked. And when Wall Street opened, it opened as if nothing had happened, even though some of the the offices were now in completely different places across the river. But it all worked, incredible. Yeah, I was, it was, it was pretty amazing. I knew people from the firms. And of course, we helped them by providing them with equipment. But at the same time, hearing about the story later was was really quite amazing, and and they did a wonderful job to bring all that back. So it was pretty, pretty amazing that that all that occurred. So that was pretty cool all the way. And   Kane Brolin ** 44:00 of course, the other struggle was in 2007 2008 I remember when I would be sitting at my desk and I'm not a day trader, I'm, I'm, I'm a long term investor. That's what most of my clients want. I'm not in there, you know, trading, trading daily options. I'm not doing inverse leveraged products that have to be bought in the morning and then sold in the afternoon under most cases. But I remember sitting at my desk in 2008 when the great recession was going on with the financial crisis happened and and when banks and huge investment banks, brokerage institutions were, in some cases, completely failing, that's a whole other story that was chronicled in books like The Big Short as an example, but I remember sitting at my desk and timing it and watching in a five minute period of time. As the Dow Jones Industrial Average, which was back in in those days, was, was what maybe 6000 or so as a benchmark. It was going up and down by a margin of error of 800 points in five minutes, it would be 400 up one minute, and then 400 down from that level. In other words, an 800 point swing within a five minute period of time. There was one day I went to take a test, because I have continuing education on a pretty regular basis, had to go to a testing center and take a test that lasted maybe three hours. I got back, and I think the market for at least the Dow Jones had dropped by 800 points during the time that I was in the testing center. And that gives you some stomach acid when that sort of thing happens, because even though it it's, you know, things always bounce back, and they always bounce up and down. Clients call and they say, oh my gosh, what happens if I lose it all? Because people really think that they could lose it all. Now, if you're in a mutual fund with 100 different positions, it's very unlikely, right? All of those positions go to zero. What I found out is that when people's money is concerned, it's emotional. Yeah, it's all rational. They're not looking at the empirical data. They're thinking fight or flight, and they really are concerned with what in the world am I going to do if I go to zero? And   Michael Hingson ** 46:38 it's so hard to get people to understand, if you're going to invest in the market, it has to be a long term approach, because if you don't do that, you can, you can disappoint yourself, but the reality is, over the long term, you're going to be okay. And you know now, today, once again, we're seeing the evidence of that with what the Fed did yesterday, lowering by a half a point, and how that's going to affect everything. But even over the last five or six years, so many people have been worried about inflation and worried about so many things, because some of our politicians have just tried to scare us rather than dealing with reality. But the fact of the matter is that it all will work out if we're patient and and allow things to to work. And what we need to do is to try to make wise decisions to minimize, perhaps our risk. But still, things will work out.   Kane Brolin ** 47:43 Yeah, I remember, I think, the Dow Jones Industrial Average, which is what always used to get quoted, at least on the radio and the television. It was somewhere in the somewhere in the 11,000 range, before the 2008 debacle. And it fell to, I think, 6400 right was the low that it reached. Now it's over 41,000   Michael Hingson ** 48:11 closed up above 42 yesterday. I'm not   Kane Brolin ** 48:13 sure it very well may have so you know when you when you really think about it, if you just stayed in and it's more complicated than that. One of course people have with the market is that when the market crashes, they also may need to get their money out for different, unrelated reasons. What if I lost my job as a result of the market crashing? Right? What if? What if there is a need that I have to fulfill and that money has to come out for me to make a house payment. You don't know that. And so that's the unfortunate part, is that a lot of the academic missions don't take into account the real human factor of real people that need to use their money. But if you could stand to hang on and leave it in, it would be worth you know, what would that be like six or seven times more than it was in 2008 but that's not what what clients often do. They they often want to sell out of fear when things are down, and then wait too long to buy back in when the elevator has already made its way quite a ways up, right?   Michael Hingson ** 49:25 I remember once, and I don't remember what the cause was, but Rolls Royce dropped to $3 a share. And there were some people saying, this is the time to buy. It is it's not going to go away. And those who did have done pretty well. Bank   Kane Brolin ** 49:44 of America was $3 a share for quite some time. It was, it was technically a penny stock. This is Bank of America, you know, one of the leading financial institutions in the in the country, which, incidentally, has a very interesting. History. It wasn't born in New York, it was born in the south, right? But, yeah, if you only knew what those trough opportunities were and knew exactly when to buy in and and I'm constantly telling people, look my my goal is, is not so much to figure out what to buy but when to buy in. We're trying to buy low and sell high, and just because something did well last year doesn't mean you have to hang on to it. It might mean we want to trim that position a little bit, take some profit and and pick something that doesn't look as attractive or sexy because of last year's lackluster returns, but maybe this year. It will just due to changing conditions. Financial markets run in cycles. And it's not that some things are inherently good or bad. Some things are in favor now. They were not in favor last year, and they might not be in favor, you know, two years from now, but they are now. So that's the hard part. You're not supposed to really time the market. We can't predict all these things, but that's why you encourage people to diversify and to have some things that are not correlated with each other in terms of doing well or badly at the same time. So you can always sometimes be gaining with in with your left hand, while your right hand is is struggling a bit. Hence,   Michael Hingson ** 51:25 the need for people who are certified financial planners, right? So there you go. So you, you got married, what, 27 years ago, and you married someone who was fully sighted, who probably didn't have a whole lot of exposure to blindness and blind people before. How did all that work out? Obviously, it's worked out because you're still married. But what was it like, and was it ever kind of an uncomfortable situation for you guys?   Kane Brolin ** 51:58 I don't think blindness. Surprisingly enough, I don't think it was super uncomfortable for her. Now, she had not encountered lots of blind people before, maybe not even any before. She met me, but I met her, and this is where I had it easy. She didn't have it easy, but I met her through her family. I knew my wife's name is Danica. I knew her brother before I knew her, because he and I had been buddies. We for a little while. We ended up living in the same town up in Michigan, and it was not here in the South Bend area where she is, but I went home and had a chance to be to tag along as he was doing some some family things and some things with his friends so but, but my wife is a very interesting father. She has a very interesting dad who is no longer with us. May he rest in peace? No, no. Hello. Sorry. My nine year old just made a brief appearance, and she's incorrigible.   Michael Hingson ** 53:00 You wouldn't have it any other way. No, there   Kane Brolin ** 53:03 are days when I would, but I don't. So anyway, the I found out some interesting things raising kids as a blind parent too, but you know, her dad did not see really any kind of limitations when the world around him was racist he really wasn't. When the world around him was ableist. He really didn't. And one of the things he encouraged me to do, they had a little acreage Danika parents did. And he actually asked me one time when it was a leaf blowing or leaf storing season, it was in the fall, lots of oak trees, different things there to drive the garden tractor, as there was a Baleful leaves behind that he was taken to an area where they would eventually be burned up or composted or something. And I did that. He had an old garden tractor with a, you know, his gas powered, and it had pedals and steering wheel, and he would literally run around alongside it, didn't go very fast, and tell me kind of when and where to turn. I'm told that I almost crashed into the pit where the basement of the home was one time, but I didn't. So he was one of these people that like saw virtually no limitations. Encouraged his kids and others to do great things. He didn't have a great feel for people. He would have been an anti politician. He had trouble remembering your name, but if you were a decent person and treated him right, it didn't matter if you were black, purple, green, blind, deaf, whatever. He saw it as an interesting challenge to teach me how to do things. He taught me how to kayak. He taught me how to cross country ski. Back in those days before climate change, we actually got quite a bit of snow in the area where I live, even as early as Thanksgiving to. I'm in November. And so the first couple of winters that we lived here, and we would go to a local park, or, you know, even just out in the in the backyard of where his property was, and, and, and ski, Nordic ski, not downhill ski, really, but it was, it was an amazing exercise. It's an amazing feel to be able to do that, and I have no memory, and I had no relatives that that were in touch with the true Scandinavian heritage, that ancestry.com says that I have, but the act of doing a little bit of Nordic skiing with him gave me a real feel for what some people go through. Because traditionally, skiing was a form of transportation in those countries. In the Larry P you skied to work, you skied to somebody else's house. So, you know, I thought that that was fun and interesting. Now, the last few winters, we haven't gotten enough snow to amount to anything like that, but I do have, I still have a pair of skis. So no, that may be something that we do at some point when given the opportunity, or some other place where we have a bit more of a snow base.   Michael Hingson ** 56:10 Well, I'm sure that some people would be curious to to know this being blind and doing the work that you do, you probably do. Well, you do the same things, but you probably do them in different ways, or have different technologies that you use. What's some of the equipment and kind of technologies that you use to perform your job?   Kane Brolin ** 56:32 Well, you know, I wouldn't say that. I'm cutting edge. I'm sure there are people who do differently and better than I do, but I do most of my work in a PC based environment. It's a Windows based environment at the present time, because the broker dealers and the other firms that I work through, you know, I'm independent, in a way, meaning I pay my own bills and operate out of my own space and have my name of Berlin wealth management as a shingle on my door, so to speak. But you never walk alone in this business. And so I chose, ultimately, a company called the Commonwealth financial network to serve as my investment platform and my source of technology, and my source of what is called compliance, which means, you know, they are the police walking alongside what I do to make sure that I've documented the advice I've given to people, to make sure that that advice is suitable and that I'm operating according to the law and in the best interest of my clients, and not Not taking money from them, or, you know, doing phony baloney things to trade into a stock before I recommend that to somebody else. You know, there's a lot of malfeasance that can happen in this type of industry, but all these securities that I sell and all the advice that I given are done so with the blessing of the Commonwealth Financial Network, which is a member of FINRA and SIPC, I just need to point that out here. But they also provide technology, and most of their technology is designed to work in a Windows environment, and so that's typically what I have used. So I use JAWS.   Michael Hingson ** 58:23 And JAWS is a screen reader that verbalizes what comes across the screen for people who don't know it right, or puts   Kane Brolin ** 58:28 it into Braille, or puts it into Braille in the in the in the early days of my doing the business, many of the programs that we had to use to design an insurance policy or to pick investments, or to even monitor investments were standalone programs that were not based on a web architecture that would be recognizable. And so I was very fortunate that there was money available from the vocational rehab system to bring somebody in from Easter Seals Crossroads here in Indiana, to actually write Jaws script workarounds, that is, that could help jaws to know what to pull from the graphics card on the screen or in the system, to be able to help me interact. Because otherwise, I would have opened up a program and to me, it would have just been like a blank screen. I wouldn't be able to see or interact with data on the screen. Now, with more things being web based, it's a little easier to do those things. Not always. There are still some programs that are inaccessible, but most of what I do is through the use of Windows 10 or 11, and and with the use of Jaws, I do have, I devices. I like Apple devices, the smaller ones. I'm actually speaking to you using an iPad right now, a sixth generation iPad I've had for a while. I have an iPhone so I can still, you know, look up stock tickers. I can send 10. Text messages or emails, if I have to using that. But in general, I find that for efficiency sake, that a computer, a full on computer, tends to work best and and then I use that more rapidly and with more facility than anything else, right? I use the Kurzweil 1000 system to scan PDFs, or sometimes printed documents or books, things like that, into a readable form where I'm trying to, trying to just kind of anticipate what other things you may ask about. But you know, I use office 365, just like anybody else might. You know, I I have to use a lot of commonly available programs, because the people monitoring my work, and even the clients that I interact with still need to, even if they have sight, they need to read an email right after I send it. You know, they've my assistant has to be able to proof and manipulate a document in a form that she can read, as well as one that I can listen to or use Braille with. I'm a fluent Braille reader and writer. So there are some gizmos that I use, some braille displays and Braille keyboards and things of that nature. But, you know, most people seem to be under the misconception that a blind guy has to use a special blind computer, which must cost a king's ransom, not true, if anybody's listening to the program that isn't familiar with 2024 era blindness technology, it's mostly the same as anybody else's except with the modifications that are needed to make stuff accessible in a non visual format, and   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:45 the reality is, that's what it's all about. It's not like it's magically expensive. There are some things that are more expensive that do help. But the reality is that we use the same stuff everyone else uses. Just have some things that are a little bit different so that we are able to have the same access that other people do, but at the same time, that's no different than anyone else. Like I point out to people all the time, the electric light bulb is just a reasonable accommodation for light dependent people. Anyway, it's just that there are a whole lot more people who use it, and so we spend a whole lot more time and money making it available that is light on demand to people. But it doesn't change the fact that the issue is still there, that you need that accommodation in order to function. And you know that that, of course, leads to and, well, we won't spend a lot of time on it, but you are are very involved in the National Federation of the Blind, especially the NFB of Indiana, and you continue to pay it forward. And the NFB has been all about helping people to understand that we're not defined by blindness. We're defined by what we are and who we are, and blindness is happens to be a particular characteristic that we share   Kane Brolin ** 1:03:09 well, and there's a lot of other characteristics that we might not share. As an example, somebody, I don't know that he is involved in the NFB as such, but you know blind, if you're involved in American Blind culture and and that you've probably heard of a man named George Wurtzel. He is the brother of the guy that used to be president of the NFB of Michigan affiliate. But I understand that George is very good at things that I am not at all good at. He, you know? He understand that he almost built his own house from the ground up. His skill is not with computers and email and all this electronic communication that they do today, but he's a master woodworker. He's an artisan. You know, I I'm also involved, and I'd be remiss if I didn't mention it, I'm also involved with an organization called Penny forward, which is, you know, it could be the direction that I ultimately head in even more because it dovetails with my career. It's financial, education and fitness by the blind, for the blind, and it was started by a young man named Chris Peterson, who's based in the Twin Cities, who is not an NFB guy. He's actually an ACB guy, but his values are not that much different, and he's been a computer programmer. He's worked for big organizations, and now he started his own and has made a full time business out of financial fitness, educational curricula, podcasting, other things that you can subscribe to and buy into. And he's trying to build a community of the varied blind people that do all kinds of things and come from all sorts of backgrounds. And in one of the later editions of his podcast, he interviewed a man who's originally from Florida, who. Founded a company called Cerro tech that some might be familiar with, Mike Calvo, and Mike came to some of the same conclusions about blindness that you and I have, except that he's much younger. He's from Florida, and he's a Cuban American. He's a Latino whose first language growing up probably was Spanish, and who actually came out of, out of the streets. I mean, he was, he was in gangs, and did all kinds of things that were very different from anything I was ever exposed to as a young person. So I think in a lot of ways, we as blind people face the same types of issues, but we don't. None of us comes at it from the same vantage point. And, you know, we're, we're all dealing with maybe some of the same circumstances, but many, many, we've gotten there in very many different ways. And so I try to also impose on people. We are all different. We're a cross section. We don't all tie our shoes or cook our meals the same way. We don't want to live in the same environment. We don't want to do the same hobbies. And we don't all have better other senses than sighted people do. I don't know how many times you've heard it. I'd be a very rich man if I had $1 for every time someone said, Well, yeah, but you know, being blind, your hearing must be so much better, your sense of smell must be so much more acute. Well, no, the the divine forces in the universe have not just compensated me by making everything else better. What do you do with someone like Helen Keller, who was blind and deaf. There are people with plenty of people with blindness, and also other morbidities or disabilities, or I don't even like disabilities, different different abilities, different strengths and weaknesses. Along with blindness, there are blind people who also happen to be autistic, which could be an advantage to them, in some ways a disadvantage to others. I would like to go beyond the discussion of disability and think of these things, and think of me and others as just simply being differently able, because, you know, what kinds of jobs and roles in life with people that have the characteristic of autism, maybe they are actually better at certain things than a non autistic person would be. Maybe overall, people who live with the characteristic of bl

In an age of overwhelmingly dumb AI that is constantly shoved in our faces, it's nice to remember a time when we still thought AI and robotics had a chance to make our lives better. In 1999, author and futurist Ray Kurzweil wrote a book called "The Age of Spiritual Machines", in which he predicts AI reaching a point where it has it's own consciousness. In this future, AI will have already cured disease and improved the human condition, but as it grows in sentience and gains rights, humanity (as we know it) slowly becomes obsolete. This isn't portrayed as a bad thing as much as just a new step in evolution with artificial life gaining spirituality... But after reading Kurzweil's book, Our Lady Peace took issue with a few things. In their 2000 album, "Spiritual Machines", they take on the complicated nature of humanity, exploring experiences that are uniquely human, such as having an out of body experience, or gaining wisdom out of negative life experiences. There's a lot of great thoughts in the album and they don't sound half bad to boot!Aaaaand for today's guest for this Canadian alt rock group is a Canadian (in her own right), Danielle MacQuarrie!!! And don't worry Wisconsinites, we proposed the idea of seceding to Canada and Danielle is going to bring it up with The Prime Minister! I bribed them with Spotted Cow...Links:Danielle MacQuarrie's website: https://daniellemacquarrie.com/Full Livestream of the episode: https://youtube.com/live/Mi5WnElKOh0?feature=shareOUR DISCORD: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://discord.gg/2stA2P7pTC⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/flyoverstatepark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠EVERYTHING ELSE: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/FlyoverStatePark⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

You know that saying "Go big or go home"? What if you were to do both? Well, that's what Queen attempted with the final track on The Miracle. They fired up the old Kurzweil, made Roger play a real drum kit and, if you can believe it, actually sat in a room as a band and recorded this one together. One of our listeners really sticks the boot in, so we return it in kind, and Randy is pondering an SPR move into the political sphere. It's not a good idea. At all. Plus, Ruddy has a question for us and we think you'll like it!If Randy were to title this episode, he'd probably call it "Not sure how I feel about the old Kurzweil" or possibly, "I hope Freddie thought it was worth it"Today's episode looks at the final track on The Miracle, with Freddie wondering, "Was It All Worth It".NOTE: Skip forward to 21:54 if wanna get straight into the manifestations and wheel spin.The music at the end of the episode is taken from UK show, The Last Leg and features Alex Horne and The Horne Section singing a soulful, nostalgic song about the simple country life. You can watch it here: https://youtu.be/74UZNexK8a4Thanks to everyone who tuned in to the last episode and left us some comments on Facebook, Bluesky, and Discord! And while we're at it, come join us on Discord, we'd be glad to have you! We'll always try to answer any questions you have and seriously appreciate any corrections you make to anything we get wrong. And thanks so much for all your support as usual. We're loving diving into the Queen fandom as much as we're enjoying recording the podcasts!Huge thanks to Corey Morrissette and Mark Camire for letting us copy and paste the format from their gold-standard podcast; And the Podcast Will Rock. You can find them at @PodcastWillRock on Twitter. Also, make sure you go check out our beautiful brothers and sisters over on the Deep Dive Podcast Network!Follow us onFacebook: @seasidepodreviewDiscord: https://discord.gg/nrzr2mQjBluesky: @seasidepodreview.bsky.socialAlso, check out Kev's other podcastsThe Tom Petty Project: https://tompettyproject.comThe Ultimate Catalogue Clash: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/ultimate-catalogue-clashAnd if you want to check out Randy's music, you can find it here:https://randywoodsband.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Attorney, award winning blogger and AI expert Ralph Losey's curated and vetted podcast features his Anonymous Podcasters as they do a deep dive on Ralph's EDRM blog post on Key AI Leaders of 2024: Huang, Amodei, Kurzweil, Altman, and Nobel Prize Winners - Hassabis and Hinton. The podcasters discuss Ralph's take on these highly creative and accomplished changemakers, and their philosophies and risk assesments. Ralph stretches the limit of the auto generated podcast format by adding in call-in questions for the AIs to answer.

Robert Moment was born in Virginia and basically has spent his entire life there except for college which took him to Maryland. Robert received a degree in Business and, after college, he went to work in corporate America. He worked for a number of large corporations including Xerox in the 1990s. He tells us some of his experiences in the corporate world and how they eventually caused him to shift gears and start his own coaching and consulting business.   Today he is a recognized authority and he has authored several books. His newest one coming out shortly is "Believe in Yourself You Got This".   What I like about talking with Robert is his down to earth direct manner of presenting ideas. As he says fairly early in our discussion, his parents taught he and his brother to believe in themselves. Robert discusses with us this concept of self belief and how it differs from ego. As he says, his father taught him that “ego” stands for “edging God out”. Pretty clever. Robert gives us a number of practical tips and lots of advice we can put to use in our daily lives. I hope you will like what Robert Moment has to say.       About the Guest:   As a sought-after authority in leadership development, Robert Moment draws upon a wealth of Fortune 500 experience and certified coaching expertise to unlock the extraordinary in leaders and organizations. 1. Leadership Development Authority: Robert Moment is a leading authority in executive coaching and leadership development. Leveraging over 15 years of experience and deep insights from Fortune 500 environments, he empowers individuals and organizations to reach new heights. As an ICF Certified Executive, Leadership, Emotional Intelligence, Career, and Peak Performance Coach, his expertise spans diverse leadership domains. 2. Startup Success Catalyst: Robert holds unique expertise in nurturing cybersecurity, healthcare, fintech, and critical infrastructure startups, guiding them through scaling challenges to achieve revenue growth. His tailored approach fosters sustainable success for these firms within competitive markets. 3. Peak Performance and Emotional Intelligence Focus: Specializing in peak performance coaching, Robert works with CEOs, executives, and high performers, empowering them to lead empathetically with high emotional intelligence. This creates collaborative and thriving work environments. As a certified practitioner, he utilizes the Social + Emotional Intelligence Profile-Self (SEIP) ® Assessment to facilitate targeted development plans. 4. Author and Comprehensive Coaching Methodology: Robert's books, including "CEO Coaching for Cybersecurity Growth" and "Believe in Yourself You Got This," offer practical strategies for professional growth. His comprehensive coaching methodology uniquely blends experience with modern assessment tools for results-driven, transformative experiences. 5. Executive Development and Career Coaching: Robert collaborates with executives and rising leaders to refine leadership skills and drive organizational success. He assists individuals at various career stages through fulfilling transitions. By identifying strengths, clarifying goals, and aligning values, he ensures informed decisions for long-term career satisfaction.   If you're ready to unlock your potential, achieve peak performance, and create the leadership legacy you envision, Robert Moment is the coach to guide you there.   Ways to connect with Robert:   Robert@LeadershipCoachingandDevelopment.com The Moment Leadership Coaching Group 2200 Wilson Blvd. Suite 102, #158 Arlington, VA 22201 LinkedIn  https"//www.linkedin.com/in/robertmomentleadershipcoach      About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hello to you all, wherever you happen to be, I am your host, Michael Hingson, and this is unstoppable mindset. We're really glad that you joined us today. Our guest is Robert moment, and Robert is a sought after authority and leadership development he's written a number of books. He's a coach, and all sorts of other kinds of things. Talking to coaches are is always really kind of fun. I learn a lot. I got all this free coaching. What can I say? It's It's always interesting and relevant to hear different points of view and get to put everything in perspective. So I'm really glad to have the opportunity this time to talk to Robert, and he does a lot of leadership development, and interested in getting into that and talking about him as well. So enough of that, Robert, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here.   Robert Moment ** 02:15 Well, thank you, Michael for the opportunity. I'm excited.   Michael Hingson ** 02:20 Well, we're really looking forward to talking with you and learning a lot. I hope Tell me a little bit about the early Robert, kind of growing up. And let's start with that just kind of where you came from and all that stuff. Well,   Robert Moment ** 02:33 the early Robert, I grew up about 30 minutes outside of Charlottesville, Virginia, and I graduated, really, I would say I'm a country boy at heart humble beginnings. And my father, he was ex military, and one of the things he taught my brother and I, I'm two years younger than my brother, was self disciplined, and to always believe in yourself. That's something that my parents ingrained in us, you know, early on, and that's something, you know, it's like, it's in my DNA, and that's what I communicate to my clients. And even when I was in corporate America, I was in corporate America for over 20 years working for Fortune 500 companies, like your Xeroxes of the world, Citigroup, manpower. And then then I transitioned into leadership and executive   Michael Hingson ** 03:21 coaching. So where did you go to college? I   Robert Moment ** 03:24 went to college. Now it's called Washington at Venice University. It's about, I would say, 20 minutes outside of Washington, DC, in a place called Takoma Park, Maryland. And my degree is in business administration. But   Michael Hingson ** 03:39 you're mostly stuck in a rut, aren't you? You've lived in Virginia basically all your life.   Robert Moment ** 03:43 Yes, I have now. I've traveled globally, but yes, my, my my home base is, yes, Virginia. Now   Michael Hingson ** 03:52 I have to tell all of you listening that before we started this, Robert was saying that he loves the spring and summer and is not a winter person. So I'm not quite sure I totally understand the paradox, but there you are. But no, it's it's fine. You could be further north in Massachusetts and Maine and New Hampshire, and get a whole lot more snow than you get in Virginia. You   Robert Moment ** 04:16 know what, Michael, when I see when I watch TV, whether it's, you know the weather channel, or CNN, and I see the snow in Boston, upstate New York and Rochester and Syracuse. I am glad I'm in Northern Virginia.   Michael Hingson ** 04:31 Boy, it was interesting, if you remember from the Weather Channel, last year here out in Southern California, we had crazy, crazy weather in Mammoth and some of the areas around here, they had, you know, overall, more than, like, 50 feet of snow, and it eventually went away. But we had incredible amounts of snow in Tehachapi and Wrightwood, the snow was so high that a. Cover the roofs, and some roofs collapsed because they couldn't take all of the snow, and the roads were blocked so people couldn't get in and out, which also made it very interesting. And we here in Victorville, were down in a little valley. We're about 20 850 feet above sea level. We had two or three inches of snow one Saturday afternoon, and that   Robert Moment ** 05:23 was it. Wow, I did see that. I saw that. And I said, you know, I couldn't believe it. Yeah, it was, it was dangerous, treacherous. Yeah, it really paralyzed a lot of people, because they couldn't leave the house, homes.   Michael Hingson ** 05:38 Yeah, they couldn't at all. And the the thing is, like mammoth, I think it was mammoth didn't even close their ski season until last August. Well, this year, it's different. They're closing Sunday. Still, it's a while. Well, it is, it is, yes, so you said you worked for a lot of corporations for quite a while. So you started that, I assume, right out of college, because you had the business background, and what did you do for them?   Robert Moment ** 06:07 Well, I was like, for instance, corporate executive, sales, business development, account manager, a lot of titles, but I learned a lot, especially back then, like Xerox Corporation, you went through a lot of training, yeah, and that training that really, I was able to leverage it and, you know, transfer to other corporations. And one of the things I learned, it really wasn't so much that when I transferred to other organizations, because that was in telecommunications. I was in insurance. Manpower is more about human development. It was really about building people skills. Yeah, people skills, and then business acumen, because you can learn the products and the services, but to be able to build relationships. That was really my, one of my strongest suits.   Michael Hingson ** 07:04 Well, Xerox information systems, back a long time ago, in part, began because they acquired a company. I worked for Kurzweil Computer Products. So I I was sort of assimilated into Xerox, because I worked for Kurzweil, and then Xerox bought Kurzweil. They wanted the technology, though, they didn't really have as much interest in the people as demonstrated by the fact that within a couple of years, all the salespeople who worked for Kurzweil pre Xerox takeover were all invited to leave. And you know those those things happen, and I think it's a serious mistake when companies do that, because they lose all the tribal knowledge and all the information and the background that people have. And like you talk about the fact that you learned so much about people skills and interpersonal dynamics as you went along. And I think the companies really lose a lot of that when they buy a company and they assimilate it, and then they get rid of the people,   Robert Moment ** 08:10 you know, I'm glad you wanted you touched on that, because I'm working with a potential client and they want to buy the smaller cybersecurity startup. And when you do that, a lot of times, you know, you gotta look at the culture, and when you mention that, they let people go, you know, a lot of times good people who've been there, whether it's, you know, five years, 10 years, you know, that's a lot of intellectual property that's walking out the door, and a lot of times, for instance, they know that customer is better than the person who's acquiring them. Why do companies do that? You know, sometimes you know they want to cut costs, but cutting costs sometimes is not good business sense, because usually the company who takes over is the one who's going to let the existing employees go in, right? Because they want to bring down people. But when I want to talk to the CEO, you know, if he becomes they become a client. That's something I want to warn and caution, caution him, you know, don't go into, oh, I want to clean house and want to bring all of my people in, because this company does have some major business with several major hospitals, and you know, that's relationship building. And that relationship building took years for them to when I say years, maybe about, I think they said five or six years. So, yeah, go ahead. So that's important. You know that relationship, the existing company has that relationship, and I told him, I would tell him, you want to make a smooth transition.   Michael Hingson ** 09:57 Well, and the reality is, it's. Some point, you can bring your own people in, but you're going to have to hire people to replace the people you you move and other things. At some point, it would make a lot of sense to really evaluate people and their skills and look at what they bring to the company before you just let them go. I was the last sales guy to be let go from Kurzweil and I had been relocated, actually, in late 1981 from Boston. Well, I lived in Winthrop and we worked in Cambridge. Then I was relocated back out to California because I knew that area better and and it was pre Xerox takeover, but the discussions had begun. But in 19 late, 1983 into 1984 was clear that Xerox had had taken the company, and some people were leaving. I was the last of the sales guys to be let go. I don't know whether that had to do with blindness or whether I was just so far remote because I was cross country, but they did it nevertheless. And I think that they made a serious mistake by losing, if you will, so many people, it just isn't a bright idea to do.   Robert Moment ** 11:25 You know, it isn't, because even when I was there, Michael Xerox was losing a lot of market share. Yeah, yeah. When I was there, they was losing when I went, when were you there? I was there like in in 1992 and they was losing a lot of market share to,   Michael Hingson ** 11:46 it's canon, yeah, and IBM.   Robert Moment ** 11:49 IBM, yes, they was losing a lot of market share. And, you know, they got became complacent. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 11:58 they did and and didn't, and probably never really had a clue about why they were losing so much market share. But nevertheless, it happened, yeah,   Robert Moment ** 12:08 I mean, Xerox was, I mean, in terms of, I mean, too top heavy, in terms of, I mean, it seems like every quarter they was hiring people, but in terms of market share, yeah, they was losing market share. And then a company called OSE came in Rico, the Japanese, the Xerox almost went under, yeah, yeah, yeah. I   Michael Hingson ** 12:37 one of the reasons I was asked to relocate to California. And like I said, they just started the discussions, but because I had spent time on and lived on the west coast for most of my life, the other thing they wanted me to do was to interface with the more technical parts of Xerox. Namely, they had a facility called Park Palo Alto area Research Center. Yes, I wonder if that's still there. Do you know? Yeah, I don't know. You know, yeah, I don't either. But I, I did a lot of work to integrate some of the information from Kurzweil into Park, which is part of what I did. And it was, it was fun. Got to meet a lot of and know a lot of the people there, and I would have thought that they would have been a little bit smarter about how they how they dealt with me, but and other people, but it, you know, it goes the way that it goes. I hear it a lot in the broadcast industry. Somebody comes in and they buy a radio station or a television station, and they phase out all the people who are already working there, which is so crazy.   Robert Moment ** 13:46 Yeah, it, yeah, I've heard that. I've heard that too, and I've actually here, I can't think of what, what station, but yes, I've heard that, and that's consistent, I think across the board, yeah, it is   Michael Hingson ** 14:03 well, and I think it's a little bit different, not necessarily totally, but a little different, because what they're doing is they're probably changing formats and other things, and they want to bring in people who are familiar with but I also Do think that they don't look at the value that, if you will, tribal knowledge, even in a radio environment, can play. So what do you do? Well, you said something earlier, interesting. You said that your parents brought you up being very self assured, self confident, and so on. I think that's that's an important feature and skill that we ought to have. Do you? Do you ever find, though, that you're too self confident, and it go in a kind of transitions over into arrogance, as opposed to just self confidence?   Robert Moment ** 14:55 You know, one of the things my father, you. Taught us you have to be careful about ego. Because he said, ego, you know that can be blind, blind confidence and blind confidence. You know that's tied to external validation, you know. And he said, you know, really, self belief is about trusting, you know, trust in your inner knowing. And not only trusting your inner knowing, it's you know your instincts and and just know deep down, you know you are capable of overcoming challenges and achieving goals. And you know, he even taught us, even said this, and I don't know he didn't invent this, but he said, you know, ego is edging God out, and you want to focus on just trust and believe yourself. You're going to have challenges, but you really have it's a fine line, that ego confidence is great, but that ego that goes beyond confidence, that you know sometimes you don't even really look at reality like you feel like you're invincible. And I think when you think you become invincible, that's when arrogance and ego come in.   Michael Hingson ** 16:17 If you're really invincible, you don't have to show it. It is just the way it goes. Well. Have you ever had a time in your life when you experienced something that really caused you to face a major challenge and doubt yourself, and how did you deal with that?   Robert Moment ** 16:37 My first corporate executive position that inner critic came up. An inner critic is, do I have what it takes? Am I good enough? And how I acquired my inner critics? And it is still comes up, sometimes even now, with opportunity, but I have to say to myself, I have to take inventory. Look at your past successes, look at your past wins, and look at the skills that you bring to the table. And those skills are transferable, whether it's a client that I'm coaching now or a future client, bigger client, but just because sometimes you know, when the opportunity comes, we excited. We get excited about the opportunity, Michael, but then, like I said for me, that inner critic is like, Okay, are you ready for this? And I have to remind myself, Yes, you are you. You have more than enough. You are enough, and you can do this.   Michael Hingson ** 17:39 So what really happened that caused a lot of self doubt with that first job,   Robert Moment ** 17:45 the responsibilities, the revenue that I needed to generate, that I had never had that kind of revenue before, and and the people who I was going to manage, but at the end of the day, you know, I said, You know what? They would not have given you this position, and if they didn't think you could do it. And then look at your look at the skills that you have. And once again, I took audit in terms of the skills, my transferable skills, and I was able to succeed. But still, that inner critic, inner voice that happens even now as a coach, how do you   Michael Hingson ** 18:24 how do you get past that inner voice? Doing that,   Robert Moment ** 18:28 I created an acronym. An acronym is B, line, B, E, L, I, E, and it starts with I begin self awareness and I understand my strengths and I understand my weaknesses. And then E, I embrace my imperfections, and because everyone has them, but what makes me unique? And then L, I learned from my setbacks. I know there's obstacles and opportunities for growth. And then I invest in self care, I prioritize my physical and mental well being, and in E I empower that inner voice to silence any negative self talk, and I just focus on the positives,   Michael Hingson ** 19:11 one of the things that we talk about on unstoppable mindset. And I've said it a number of times, so I hope people don't get too bored, but I think it's important to say, I used to always say, I'm my own worst critic. I listen to speeches when I give them. I did it some when I was program director at the campus radio station at UC Irvine K UCI. I've done it a lot of times. I listen to myself, and I always used to say, you know, I'm really hard on myself. I'm going to be harder on myself than anyone else. Anyone else, because I'm my own worst critic. And actually, only the last over the last year have I realized wrong approach. I'm not my I'm not my own worst critic. I do believe in, and have always believed in the kinds of things that you're talking about, introspection on. Self analysis and so on. And what I realized is that, in reality, no one can teach me anything. They can provide the information, but I'm the only one who can teach me, and I've changed from saying I'm my own worst critic to saying I'm my own best teacher. And the reality is that just totally reshapes the attitude, and I will will tell you that it also helps in dealing with that inner voice. Because when I start to think about that, I think about, okay, how do I teach me? Well, it goes back to self analysis. It goes back to introspection. What worked today? Why didn't that go as well as I thought that it should, and it could be I was just too, too confident, and I've got to be open enough to acknowledge that, and okay, so what do you do to make sure that doesn't happen again? So I love the approach of I'm my own best teacher, because it's such a a positive and more constructive way of helping to guide you into introspection and real self analysis.   Robert Moment ** 21:06 You know, I love the concept, you know, I would say, Isn't that owning your power? Sure, yeah, I would say that's Michael, that's owning your power. It   Michael Hingson ** 21:17 is owning it's owning, well, it's owning your power, and it's owning your actions and what you do, and when you acknowledge that, then you can sit back and look at it and go, Okay, so let's discuss brain what happened. But that's exactly right, and I would rather look at things with something that will really move me forward. Rather than saying, let's criticize other people can criticize me, but then ultimately, I have to go back and listen to and look at what they say and decide, okay, where's the merit they're saying it, maybe there's something to it, but is there really, or how much? And take it to heart, but come to a decision and move forward. You   Robert Moment ** 22:11 know that, you know, I call it, I would, you know, reframe it, and that that was a, that's a major pivot shift in terms of your mindset and your thought process. Yeah, because, you know, a lot of times people, we can be our own worst enemy, and, like you said, our own worst critic. But how you're reframing it from a positive more so than a negative because most people want to, they start with the negative instead of the positive. Yeah, yeah. So I like how you're reframing that. Because just like this is that self talk, you know, you can say, you know, I'm not good enough. Well, say I am good enough, just that slightly framing, because I always words have power, and you continue to repeat something, you will believe it,   Michael Hingson ** 23:09 and you can also say, How can I get better? Yes, and take the time to really analyze it, because I believe that ultimately, when we look at ourselves, we can, if we practice it and develop that mind muscle, we really know the answers, but we have to listen to get them to come to the surface so we can deal with them. The fact of the matter is, we know a lot more than we think we do. We underestimate ourselves. And so often something comes up, and suddenly we think of an answer, but we go, oh, no, that's too easy. Or no, that can't be it. And we go back and, yeah, you see what I'm saying. And we go back and overthink it, and then come up with what turned out to be the wrong answer, because we wouldn't listen to ourselves with the right answer. You   Robert Moment ** 24:05 know, I feel as though the universe is always talking to us, and sometimes we have to be still. And for instance, you know, if I'm coming up with a book title, like you said, if it's too easy, it's like, well, that's too easy. Well, no, that's probably the book title that you need, yeah, or the article title. You know, a lot of times we think, if it's too easy, that's not the solution. But here's something that was, I learned in corporate America, we would, here's an example, a client had a problem. Let's say it could be any problem. And we, you know, meet with the client. The client, they have five people, you know, representing our company, and maybe we have three or four, and they said, you know, they've had this problem. Six. Months, and I'm listening to the client, and I said, you know, this is the solution. And I remember telling a VP, I wasn't at the VP level yet. We we had a debrief, you know, like in the lobby after the meeting, and I said, this is the this is a solution. This is the solution to the client problem, and this is what he said. He said, That's he said, No, that's to he said, not. The meeting lasted maybe almost almost two hours, and he said, No, that. He said, You know what a client, we can't go back to the client and say that's the solution because they had the problem. He said, for over six months, and what we want to charge the client, we got to drag this out. And I said, Why drag it up? They got a problem. And he said, they will not believe that we solve this problem within two hours. So I you know he was a VP, yeah, Michael, it we went through, I want to say this is years ago, five or six meetings and the solution, it was this, right solution, six meetings, and then finally, we tell the client, okay, we have come up with the solution. And that's when I think I said, you know, I don't think I'm going to be in corporate America too long after that,   Michael Hingson ** 26:35 you know? And I've, I've talked about it a few times after leaving Kurzweil because I was dismissed, as it were, or Xerox. Actually, at that point, I couldn't find a job because people wouldn't hire a blind person. And it's still way all too often the case, the unemployment rate is, you know, incredibly high. Depending on where you are. It could be 60 65% significantly higher, and I was looking for a job and wasn't finding one. And so what I eventually did was I started my own company selling computer aided design systems to architects, a blind guy selling cat systems. Why not? You know, I didn't need, I didn't need to work the system, but I did need to know how to work the system so that I could describe it to people. Well anyway, as we started working with architects and so on, they would say, well, we can't as much as this system works and all that we can't take on this system because we charge with our by our time, with our with our effort and our time, and if we use the CAD system, we'll get done in a fraction of the time, and so we'll not make as much money. Well, you know, my response was, you are looking at it all wrong. You're bringing in new technology. You're bringing in so much more capabilities, because you could bring a customer in, and you can do walk throughs and fly throughs and show them exactly what it looks like looking out a window from inside a building and all sorts of stuff. They can say they want to change something, and they can make the change, or you can make the change as they suggest it. You're not charging for your time anymore. You're charging for your expertise. You don't need to charge less, but you're charging for all the expertise and the skills and the added value that you bring to the sale. And the architects who got that, and there were some who did and some who didn't, but the architects who got it really began doing extremely well, because they could also then go off and look for more customers more quickly, quickly, yeah, and we, we really, we really need to remember that there are, on a regular basis, new and better solutions coming up, and it's hard to keep up with everything. But by the same token, if we can be aware of what we need to do to make everyone's lives better with whom we work, we're going to do better, because they're going to do better.   Robert Moment ** 29:20 I totally agree. Because, you know, when I'm working with clients, even if the first two sessions, I have a solution, I'm not going to say, okay, you know what? Hold on to this solution until coaching sessions. In six months into the coaching session, you know that? You know, yes, for me, it's integrity. That's one, but two, I want all my clients to succeed as fast as quick as possible. And you know, I remember, gosh, when I started out this client, he's I said, one of the questions I was asked, have you. Ever had a coach before? And he said, Yes, I had a coach before. And I said, Well, how did it work out? And he says, I felt as though he had solutions or could help me, but he dragged out the process. And I said, Okay, that's not gonna happen with me. Because then I thought, you know, I thought back in my experience when I was in corporate America, yeah, when you have the solution, but, you know, I think I really want to coach him for another six months, not for two days, or, you know, two weeks. So, yeah, well, you   Michael Hingson ** 30:35 could coach him for another six months. It's just that you're going to evolve and go in different directions, if that makes sense to do, yes, yes. And if it doesn't, you're going to have a very happy customer who's going to tell other people about you. Absolutely   30:51 yes. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 30:54 I want to get to your transition, but first, just following up on something we talked a little bit about, how do you really tell the difference between overconfidence, or what you call our inner critic and or whatever, and the whole real issue of healthy self evaluation? How do we really make those differentiations?   Robert Moment ** 31:16 I would say, in terms of, like I said, ego is self validation. I'm sorry, self validation, or external validation, when you're talking about self belief, that's trusting, that's a inner knowing, that's your inner being, your core. And I think that's the difference, and because when you're talking about self belief, you begin with self awareness. I don't know anybody who has a huge ego focuses on self awareness. They don't understand. They not want to talk about understanding our strengths, understanding our weaknesses, ego. They just don't but when you talk about self belief, self awareness, and then they embrace their imperfections, to me, that's, that's, that's very, very important. And then I can say, when you talk about investing in self care, you do prioritize your mental well being and also your physical well being. You take, really, you take inventory of self   Michael Hingson ** 32:21 as you should, and it's something that you, if you're doing it right, probably do on a regular basis. Yes,   Robert Moment ** 32:29 that's one thing I tell clients weekly. There's five questions I might give them depending on the individual to do what I call a mental coaching, self, self, mental coaching each and every week, because mental health, you know, it's, it's prevalent, and especially the higher you are as an executive, the pressure and self audit. Because even myself, I, you know, yes, I'm a coach, but coaching people, they said, well, that mental health, that's yeah, I have to still go out my mental health as well. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 33:10 well, and there's nothing wrong with asking yourself, did I really do that? Right? What can I learn? How do I move forward? But even just the whole concept of, did I do it right? Did I do what I really should do? Asking yourself that helps so much to assist you in becoming more self aware, because if you ask that with an open, curious attitude, you're going to get the right answers, and then you can use it to move forward.   Robert Moment ** 33:45 You know, you're right about one of the things coaching. As a coach, you I always say to myself after every session, did I asked the right questions, was I curious enough? And did I go deeper? Because sometimes a client might give me a response, and I try to make sure I don't gloss over that response. And I want to say, you know, what? Can we go deeper? And then sometimes, you know, I ask for permission. Can we go deeper? Because Francis, our client, a couple weeks ago, he's had some leadership challenges. And I said, How does transparency, how does empathy and how does trust show up in your leadership style? And he said he gave me some examples. And I said, Well, can we go deeper? And he said, Well, I just gave you some examples. And he said, Well, why do you want to go deeper? I said, I'm here to help you, because with the examples he gave me wasn't it didn't have a lot of substance. And you know, after the session. You, he did say this, and you know, I don't need someone to pat me on the back. But he said, You know what? Now, I appreciate you as a coach, because he said, You know what, these three things. So I said, journal this week, how does those three things show up in your leadership style? And I want to see examples on next session, and that's what I want to be curious. But also want to go deeper,   Michael Hingson ** 35:22 do you record your sessions?   Robert Moment ** 35:24 Yes, I do. Yes, yes, and, and. So   Michael Hingson ** 35:27 the reason for asking that question is, then, do you go back and listen to them as a learning experience for you as well? Yes, I do. Okay, yes, which is, which is the which is the point, yeah, because you're your own best teacher, yes, but it sounds like that that person had some definite trust issues and probably needed to show a little bit more empathy and vulnerability than than they were showing.   Robert Moment ** 36:00 Yeah, you know, one of the things I did tell him, I said, you know, vulnerability, it's not a weakness. And and then, you know, one of the things when I said, when I have to dig deep, a lot of times when clients, it's not just about coaching them on how to become the best executive, but a lot of times it's about the story that the story that personalized, because a lot of times, for instance, here's an example about this. Is after COVID, this company called me and they said, Well, this executive we bought on board. He's a high performer on paper, but he is creating a toxic environment here. And I said, Well, you know, I was talking to the Chief Human Resource Officer. I said, I'm not understanding this. You said he interviewed. Well, he was a high performer. He has a great track record, but why is he calls it a toxic environment in your organization. And she said, Well, we gotta one or two things that's gonna happen. One, if he doesn't turn things around, we don't want to put him on any kind of corrective action, but we will have to, because two people have threatened to leave, and they've been here longer than him. So long story short, they said we're going to offer him coaching. If he doesn't accept coaching and doesn't turn things around, then yes, we're going to put him on corrective action and we'll terminate him. And he accepted coaching. And the one thing the second session that we had, and that's why I always said, Yeah, I have to go deep. And I said, they said, you know, when you are in meetings that you are not able to accept constructive criticism and and he says, that's that perception. So I said, well, but these are some examples that they gave me, and he said, and I said, Well, what kind and I don't know, Michael, something said to me, and sometimes, like I said, it's your intuition, yeah, instinct. I said, What kind of relationship did you have with your father? And this is what he blurted out. All of my life, he's been critical, criticized. I could never do anything right in his eyes. And I said, Can we go deeper? And I said, right now today, what kind of relationship do you have with your father? He said, I haven't spoken to my father in over seven years. And I said, would you what? Could you tell me why? So he told me why. And I said, Well, would you believe this statement that I'm about to make. And I said, you've had this all in your life, not just at this company. And he said, Yes, he has. And I said, not able to be able to take constructive criticism. And I said, here's things. I said, I can help you on two levels. I can help you on a professional level and I can help you on a personal level. So you said, Well, I told him how I could help him on this professional level. But I said the personal level, that's optional, because the company is paying for the professional the personal, I want to help you on a personal level. And I said, one of the things are you willing to take this major step that I'm about to ask you to take, and that's to forgive your father? Mm, hmm. And he said, first he he resisted. And I said, you're going to have this problem you're in. Entire life. And long story short, he forgave his father. I walked him through the process. I spoke to his father. Actually, we all and his father had never seen his granddaughter. And his granddaughter, I think, was four or five, and he saw for the first time that year, that Thanksgiving, and   Michael Hingson ** 40:22 I assume that the client ended up hopefully doing okay, and stayed with the company.   Robert Moment ** 40:30 He stayed with the company. He turned things around. Now this is what I'd say to not just the listeners, even myself. That's why, that's one of the reasons why coaching is my calling. It's not just the results the business results. I want them. I want every client to be the best version of themselves, not just in a professional but also that personalized. And you know that to me? You know that probably made my coaching year, not how many clients I coach, but just that made my coaching year for for a grandfather to see his grand. Now his his wife have seen her granddaughter, but his father had never seen only, only pictures.   Michael Hingson ** 41:25 Well, I'm glad that the the father and son made peace, and that that is so important. I think there is a whole lot of of connection between the professional parts and the personal parts. One of the reactions I had when you started the story was that, in reality, the professional part isn't going to really improve unless the personal part does.   Robert Moment ** 41:48 Yes, you're absolutely right. And I like i i tell my client, you're going to have this your entire life until you resolve it and forgive your father and you know, when I talked to the Father, Michael, his father was like that, so the cycle was never broken. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 42:11 it so often happens in so many different ways, doesn't   Robert Moment ** 42:14 it? Yeah? And, you know, and you're talking about a father, you know, life is short, and you're talking those many years without speaking to your father, not seeing him. And you know, you know the worst thing, it didn't happen. But if he would have lost his father, yeah, I was just   Michael Hingson ** 42:33 thinking that, yeah, if he would have lost his father, man, what a blessing. That didn't happen. Yeah, yes,   Robert Moment ** 42:38 absolutely. And then, not only that, your granddaughter would have never saw her grandfather, grandfather, right? Yeah.   Michael Hingson ** 42:47 Well, now let's, let's talk about you again a little bit. So you talked earlier. You told the story of what happened in corporate America, and you said that was kind of one of the things that started you to transition what, what finally was the the last straw, if you will, that led you to decide to leave corporate America, and how did you decide to go in and transition to just being a coach and, well, not just being but being a coach and starting your own business,   Robert Moment ** 43:15 we went, I can't think of, Wow, gosh, it was the year. It was a year where we was having, there was a lot of recession, was a recession and a lot of layoffs, and I had gotten tired of the politics, and I said, you know, I want something new, different, but I don't know what, but I want to become an entrepreneur. Because I was selling Christmas cards when I was like, in the fifth grade, you could get engraved personalized. I had a lawn a landscaping business sold T shirts. So I've always been an entrepreneur at heart, but I just didn't know what I needed to do to make that transition. So what happened was a lot of people colleagues were getting laid off, and they said, Well, can you help me find a job? I'm like, Well, I don't know if I can help you find a job. I don't have any connections like that, because the companies that I know they are laying off to Yeah. And they said, Well, you know, maybe you can help me interview. I'm like, okay, I can help you interview. Because I interview very well. I think because I got the copies I've worked for, I went through three or four interviews. So I started helping people get hired for jobs I wasn't charging. It was just, you know, pro bono. And I said, well, they said, you to get hired expert. And I said, not to get hired. They said, Yeah, because you I started getting referrals, and I wasn't. And I said, well, they said, Yeah. Know such and such. Said, you can help so and they said, you know, you're coaching us. I'm like coaching. Okay, I don't see myself as a coach. But then I realized I was coaching, I would mentor when I was in corporate America. So this is how, this is how I started to get paid, though, as a coach, a colleague referred this executive to me, and he said he had been with this company like for 15 years, and he said he doesn't know he really needs to help on job search interview, and he said he's going to give you a call. And I said, he said, Because I told him, You can help me, because you helped me get a job. So, long story short, he calls me up, and this is what he said. He said, I need your help, and I want to hire you as a coach. How much do you charge for years of coaching? I want you to help me find a job. Help me to interview. I need your help. And when he said, charge, I didn't know what this I said, Well, charge. I almost said, I've been doing this for free.   Robert Moment ** 46:27 Yes, Michael, and you're absolutely right, my friend. So I said, I threw out Michael. I threw out a number man for one year. I just, I don't know where that number came from. So I threw out the number, and this is what he said. He said, Well, how do how do I pay you? Do I pay you my check credit card? I didn't have no business account set up or anything, my personal checking accounts or money market. And I said, check. And he says, Well, how do you want me to mail you to check? And he's then he said this. He said, I am going to the bank because I'm getting my severance I gotta work things out. I'm getting my severance package, and I wire you the money. I said, Sure, you can borrow the money. So I gave him my account, long story short, and then when the money, I couldn't believe it. I said, you know, what did I charge? Did I overcharge it?   Michael Hingson ** 47:26 Yeah, you always ask that, or under charge, right, under   Robert Moment ** 47:29 charge. I said, because that was that. That was that transaction was too quick, too fast. And then I realized, after I did some research, I didn't overcharge and but then, you know what happened? When we came close to the first session, I said, Oh, my God, can I do this? Because this man has given me X number of dollars, and this is my first paying client, and that's when the inner voice came like, you know, this man may be asking you for a refund, so don't spend this money, you know, just put it aside in this account. And even I open a bit, and then I did open a business account, don't even touch this money. And you know what? Two months go back, and then, you know, I got past that point because I was telling my father. I said, Dad, I feel like the sessions are going great. And he got me, actually got hired, probably within four months, he had two offers. And then he said, I want you to coach me throughout for the year, of course. And I did not touch that money, Michael until I felt comfortable, maybe about six months. I moved it into, I think, I bought some stocks, and I said, you know, okay, but I, you know, I had some limiting beliefs that I had to get past. Yeah, I did.   Michael Hingson ** 49:06 Well, it was a new adventure. It was new all the way around for you. You had to discover that the Earth really is round and not flat, so it's fair.   Robert Moment ** 49:18 Yeah, you know, when you, you I tell even new coaches, when we all going to have, you know, limiting beliefs, and you have to, you have to fight through it. Yeah, you have to fight through it, because that, you know, like I said, my biggest fear was, don't spend the money, because he might ask for a refund. And, you know, I've had clients. No one has ever asked me for a refund. But that first client, I was kind of like, like I said not. I was confident in coaching him. But then I was that in a critic saying the. Spend that money because, you know what? Not that I needed to spend it. But then after that, I started to get more clients because referrals. And I said, You know what? Now is the time to make the leap. There you go. And I made the leap, yeah, and,   Michael Hingson ** 50:19 and and you've been doing it now. What about 20 years? Yeah, about 20 years. You know, I, I find it interesting. As a speaker, I was approached by someone who has an event coming up in June, and I quoted a number that I thought was high. But I also say I work with people in their budgets, which I'm I'm willing to do because the World Trade Center happened for me. And excuse me, in reality, while I do earn my living largely with it and speaking, I also want to be out there, inspiring and helping and educating so we negotiate. But I had this one customer, literally just this week, and they I quoted a number, and I figured it was high, and they came back and they said, Well, we really looked and that's a lot higher than we expected. We've actually had some comedians that we've been looking at possibly hiring, and they're quoting, like, maybe 20% of what you're quoting. And I said, I will work with you, but let me point out that I have the visibility, and you're hiring me for the inspiration that I bring in the expertise that I bring, as opposed to local comedians, and we'll see what happens, you know, and what's interesting is it's, it's a company that deals with the law. Lawyers don't negotiate a whole lot. Most of the time. They charge an hourly rate. You know, it's just interesting how people work at things.   Robert Moment ** 51:58 You know, one thing always feel as though my father said this. He said, communicate the value. If you communicate the value and they can see it, price does not become an issue. Yeah. And he said, you know, communicate the value up front as much as you can, and then price doesn't become an issue is when you don't, they don't see the value, then all of a sudden, you know, I gotta think about it. Let me talk to you know is this, but when they can see the value, and then, you know what? My coach told me this. One of my first coaches told me this. He said, you know, a lot of coaches want to charge just, just to get a client, they want to charge low fees. And he said, those will be your worst clients.   Michael Hingson ** 52:48 Yeah, absolutely, always will be your worst.   Robert Moment ** 52:52 He said they will probably. He said they will be, I've wanted you don't do it. They're   Michael Hingson ** 52:58 going to suck up your energy. They're going to do so much, many things, and they don't pay you for it, which is one of the reasons I'm resisting. We'll see what happens with this one. It isn't settled yet, and it'll work out. Yes, I have had other customers that I know didn't have big budgets. They're nonprofits and things like that. But again, we come to an agreement, both in terms of time and what's expected, as well as the money, and that's okay, but, but yeah, it is, you know, because not everybody is going to be able to pay what some bigger corporations will pay. That's okay, yeah, yeah. But the other thing that I actually always ask in my speaker contract is, if you like the speech, I want a letter of recommendation, and I want you to refer me to at least two other people. And   Robert Moment ** 53:59 that works, yeah. I love that. I love that strategy. It works pretty   Michael Hingson ** 54:03 well. Well, tell me, what are some practical techniques do you use to boost your self esteem and self belief, especially in difficult times? How do you psych yourself up in a good way? Well,   Robert Moment ** 54:19 one of the things self talk. It's, you know, to me, self talk is, you know, you can do this. I believe in you, you know, I look at and also, not only that, I look at my whether it's a big win or small wins. I look back over my life too. And I said, you know, 10 years, five years, even two days, you was able to do this and and then I surround myself with very supportive people. Mm, hmm, that's, that's key, because I believe, you know, they believe, not only do they believe in me, but self. Belief in self is contagious.   Michael Hingson ** 55:01 Yes, it absolutely is. Yeah, it's contagious   Robert Moment ** 55:03 and and how I challenge, like I said that inner critic is, I love how you reframe things. Is self talk, positive self talk, and focus on your accomplishment and celebrate small wins. It don't have to be big wins. It'll be small wins. But celebrate and then remember this too. I tell whether it's clients, colleagues, self belief, it's a journey. It's not a destination. It's like you. Every year you're building, like building muscles, your self belief muscles, whether it's five years, six years, but every year, you're building through life, lessons, failures, setbacks, but you're still building that muscle. Yep,   Michael Hingson ** 55:50 and when you understand that, that also will help give you the insight to continue to do it.   Robert Moment ** 55:56 Yes, because you know when you learn from setbacks, even obstacles or opportunities for growth. And you know, when you have a growth mindset, you realize through self awareness, you give a chance to learn and continue to grow. And then you know one of the things to you know, your dreams deserve a chance. It doesn't matter how big or small, but all of our dreams deserve a chance, and we all have unique talents, and just, you know, focus on your strengths and let them shine. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 56:39 what would you tell listeners who believe their self belief is at all time low. Where do they start?   Robert Moment ** 56:46 Well, first of all, you want to take inventory of the skills that you currently have and be grateful for what you have, because we all have unique talents, skills, abilities and gifts. And a lot of times I think what happens people underestimate what they already have, and start to take inventory of, like I said, the skills, the talents that you have, and embrace your own uniqueness and also your own imperfections. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 57:19 because if you don't recognize them, then you're never going to be able to deal with them. If you do recognize them, then you can deal with them   Robert Moment ** 57:26 absolutely and like I said, once again, give yourself credit for your small victories. You don't have to be big victories, but give yourself credit, because, see, when you give yourself credit for your small victories. Michael, that continues to build momentum.   Michael Hingson ** 57:43 Yep. Can you give me an example of someone who you believe has unwavering self belief and what we can learn from them? Yes,   Robert Moment ** 57:52 I do. I want to share this story. My name is Barbara Corcoran. She's the real estate for the Shark Tank. Yes, you know her boyfriend and business partner. She was in real estate. He left her for her secretary, right? And but you know what that split, what it did for her, I know it was devastating, but it was a catalyst for her success, because what it did, it fueled her determination to form her own company, which was a corporate group. And I think, if I'm not mistaken, she sold it for about $66 million so that, to me, resilience in her situation was key. She embraced a new beginning, and she looked at failure as a stepping stone, which   Michael Hingson ** 58:46 makes a lot of sense. I believe that we should get rid of the word failure from our vocabulary anyway. Failures are not failures. They are simply things that didn't work out as they should. And what are you going to do about it, right? It's we gotta get the negativity out of so much of it. Yeah, you   Robert Moment ** 59:05 know we do. We do because, you know also what I and her. She believed in herself fiercely, man, because she feel as though, you know, she had something to prove. I get that. And guess what she did.   Michael Hingson ** 59:22 You have a new book coming out entitled believe in yourself. You got this. Tell me about that.   Robert Moment ** 59:27 This is about I want the reader to really take inventory in themselves. This book is a coaching book. It's going to be real. It's real simple, but it's going to have questions where they take inventory and really focus on believing in themselves, and not only just believing But accepting themselves. You know you can believe in yourself, but I want them to really accept who they are and and know that worth, know that value. You and know that they have something to bring and add to this world.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:04 Well, if you could leave our listeners with one final thought about self beliefs, what would that be?   Robert Moment ** 1:00:10 Own Your Power. Own Your Power, and don't let any one hold you back and take control. Take control of your destiny. And then also remember that self belief is a journey and not a destination.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:27 I love that. If people would like to reach out to you and maybe talk to you about hiring you as their coach, or just learning more about you and your books and all that, because you've written several books actually, how do they do that?   Robert Moment ** 1:00:39 They can reach me at Robert at leadership coaching and development.com or they can connect with me on LinkedIn.   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:48 And what's the LinkedIn? Do you know your LinkedIn? Uh, yes, it'll be Robert moment leadership coach, okay, and what was the website? Again, website   Robert Moment ** 1:00:57 is leadership coaching and development.com.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:01 Leadership, coaching and development.com. Great. Well, I hope people will reach out. This has been insightful in a lot of ways, I will say, validating for some of my beliefs, but also very educational. And I said at the beginning, I always love speaking to people who coach, I learn a lot, and I've always believed that that I'm not doing my job unless I'm learning at least as much as anybody else who listens to the podcast. So I really appreciate your time today. So Robert moment, thank you, and I want to thank all of you for listening. I hope that you have found this helpful if you want to really become a better leader. Robert has lots of ways clearly that he probably can help you, and it's worth exploring with him. So I hope you'll reach out. I'd love to hear from you. Please give me an email. You can reach me at speaker at Michael hingson.com Michael hingson is m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, O, N, just like it sounds actually speaker at Michael hingson.com love it. If you'd go to our podcast page, if you would, www, dot Michael hingson.com/podcast can listen to all of our episodes there, but wherever you're listening or watching, I would really value it greatly. If you would give us a five star rating and review us. We really appreciate people who do that. So any of that that you can do, I would really appreciate it. And as I've said many times on these podcasts, if you need to find a speaker to come and inspire and motivate. I'd love to talk with you about that. Email me at speaker@michaelhingson.com love to talk with you about that. And Robert, for you and everyone listening and watching. If you know of anyone who you think ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, please let us know. We'd love to meet people who want to be guests. So Robert, thank you again. I really appreciate you being here. This has been a lot of fun and definitely continued great success. Michael,   Robert Moment ** 1:03:08 thank you. I'm truly grateful and continued success to you as well.   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:18 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Episode 137 Merry Moog 2024 Electronic Music for the Holidays Performed on the Moog and other Synthesizers   Playlist Time Track Time Start Introduction –Thom Holmes 04:34 00:00 1.     Hans Wurman, “Overture Miniature” from Electric Nutcracker (1976 Ovation). This Austrian composer made several remarkable, classically influenced Moog Modular albums from 1969 to 1976. This was one of his last big Moog projects and is difficult to find. 2:54 02:54 04:32 2.     Hans Wurman, “Danse De La Fee-Dragee ( Sugar Plum Fairy)” from Electric Nutcracker (1976 Ovation). Moog Modular synthesizer, Hans Wurman. 1:33 01:33 07:24 3.     Hans Wurman, “Danse Des Mirlitons (Flutes)” from Electric Nutcracker (1976 Ovation). Moog Modular synthesizer, Hans Wurman. 2:14 02:14 08:56 4.     Emerson, Lake & Palmer, “Nutrocker” from Nutrocker / The Great Gates Of Kiev (1972 Cotillion). Arranged by, Emerson, Lake & Palmer. Written by Kim Fowley. 03:48 11:08 5.     Sounds Of Broadcasting 2, “Night Of The Kings” from Sounds Of Broadcasting #6088 (1975? William B. Tanner Company, Inc.). Broadcast library track produced for the holidays. Produced using a Moog Modular Synthesizer. 01:01 14:56 6.     Jean Jacques Perrey and Sy Mann, “Jingle Bells” from Switched on Santa (1970 Pickwick). USA. Moog Modular Synthesizer. 01:44 15:56 7.     Jean Jacques Perrey and Sy Mann, “Christmas Bells” from Switched on Santa (1970 Pickwick). USA. Moog Modular Synthesizer. 01:52 17:40 8.     Douglas Leedy, “The Coventry Carol” from A Very Merry Electric Christmas to You (1970 Capitol). USA. Moog Modular Synthesizer and Buchla Synthesizer. 04:46 19:30 9.     Joseph Byrd, “Christmas in the Morning” from A Christmas Yet to Come (1975 Takoma). USA. ARP 2600 Synthesizer with an Oberheim Expander Module. 01:34 24:16 10.   Armen Ra, “O Come All Ye Faithful” from Theremin Christmas (2018 Sungod). USA. Moog Etherwave Pro Theremin. 04:43 25:50 11.   Beck, “The Little Drum Machine Boy” from Just Say Noël (1996 Geffen). USA. Roland TR-808 Rhythm Composer. 07:02 30:32 12.   Alan Horsey, “We Wish You a Merry Christmas” from Switched-On Christmas (1985 Snowflake Records). Italian album with electric organ by Alan Horsey. This is reminiscent of Hooked on Classics as the entire album seems to be woven together by a drum machine beat. This is played on organ. Seems a little late for disco. 03:10 37:30 13.   Denny Hinman, “Christmas in July” from Plays The Yamaha Electone E-70 (1980 Yamaha). Denny Hinman plays the Yamaha Electone E-70. A release by Yamaha. 01:45 40:36 14.   Miharu Koshi, “Belle Tristesse” (妙なる悲しみ)from We Wish You A Merry Christmas (1984 Yen). Japan. A compilation of specially recorded Christmas-themed songs from various artists on the Yen Records label. Written by, synth-pop with vocals by Miharu Koshi. Miharu Koshi is a keyboardist and singer with a long-standing collaborative association with YMO-founder Haruomi Hosono. 03:43 42:20 15.   Taeko Onuki, Inori (Prayer) from We Wish You A Merry Christmas (1984 Yen). Japan. A compilation of specially recorded Christmas-themed songs from various artists on the Yen Records label. Japanese synth-pop with vocals by Onuki. Maybe Ryuichi Sakamoto on keyboards. 03:44 46:02 16.   Frank Collett, “Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring (1970 Privately Made Release). USA. This is a special addition to the Merry Moog podcast. I found what is likely a one-of-a-disc private pressing by Frank Collett using the Moog Modular Synthesizer. This 45 RPM disc was recorded at Finetone Recording Studio in New York City and is inscribed with the hand-written message, “To John & Loretta: Merry XMAS. Composed and arranged by Frank Collett” This appears to be disc made of metal with a vinyl coating. One side includes his rendition of Bach's “Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring” plus a short tune called “Little Joey” (see below). The flip side contains the same recording of “Little Joey.” Dated December 22, 1970. Clearly made using a Moog Modular Synthesizer. Collett (1941-2016) was a noted session pianist and sometimes led and recorded with his own trio. He was raised in New York. In 1968 he was accompanist to Sarah Vaughan. The following year he moved to Las Vegas, Nevada.  He became the house pianist, with the orchestra in the main showroom of the International Hotel (which became the Las Vegas Hilton).  It was during this period that he made this recording in NY.  01:57 49:44 17.   Frank Collett, “Little Joey” (1970 Privately Made Release). Frank Collett using the Moog Modular Synthesizer. From a 45 RPM disc recorded at Finetone Recording Studio in New York City (see above). Dated December 22, 1970. Clearly made using a Moog Modular Synthesizer. Collett (1941-2016) was a noted session pianist and sometimes led and recorded with his own trio. Moog Modular Synthesiser, Frank Collett. Whose Moog Synthesizer did he use to make this recording? I can only speculate and guess that he made the recording at the studio of Gerson Kingsley in New York. 01:56 51:40 18.   Romantic Synthesizer, “Oh Tannenbaum” from Christmas Memories (1983 Dureco Benelux). French-Dutch album. Arranged, produced, synthesizers by Gerto Heupink, Robert Pot. 02:53 53:34 19.   Keiko Ohta (Ota), “Here Comes Santa Claus” from Electone X'Mas Present (1975 Canyon). Yamaha Electone GX-707 (GX-1), arranged by Keiko Ohta. Ohta was a female Electone star from Japan. The GX-1 was an early polyphonic synthesizer and a new branch of the Yamaha Electone family tree. 02:43 56:24 20.   Keiko Ohta (Ota), “Blue Christmas” from Electone X'Mas Present (1975 Canyon). Yamaha Electone GX-707 (GX-1), arranged by Keiko Ohta. Japan. Yes, the song originally made famous by Elvis Presley. Ohta was a female Electone star from Japan. The GX-1 was an early polyphonic synthesizer and a new branch of the Yamaha Electone family tree. 04:11 59:06 21.   Paul Haig, “Scottish Christmas” from Chantons Noël - Ghosts Of Christmas Past (1981 Les Disques Du Crépuscule). From a compilation album of Christmas-related tunes. Scottish songwriter, musician and singer. 02:46 01:03:16 22.   Les Cousins Dangereux, “What Child Is This” from Gotta Groove Records 2012 (2012 Gotta Groove Records). Holiday album with various artists. Les Cousins Dangereux is Mr. Tim Thornton. 01:59 01:06:00 23.   Joy Electric, “Angels We Have Heard on High” from The Magic Of Christmas (2003 Tooth & Nail Records). Joy Electric is Ronnie Martin from Ohio. American synthesizer-pop musician. Among his many releases is this crafty Christmas album. 01:48 01:07:58 24.   Koichi Oki, “Jingle Bells” from The Man From Yukiguni (1975 TIM/RS). Japan. Koichi Oki's Christmas album performed solely by his Yamaha Electone E-3. “Yukiguni” means snowland. Oki was a hugely popular Electone artist in Japan. 01:50 01:09:46 25.   Koichi Oki, “Winter Wonderland” from The Man From Yukiguni (1975 TIM/RS). Japan. Koichi Oki's Christmas album performed solely by his Yamaha Electone E-3. “Yukiguni” means snowland. Oki was a hugely popular Electone artist in Japan. 02:18 01:11:34 26.   Edhels, “Oriental Christmas” from Oriental Christmas (1985 Cabana Music). Recorded in France. Drums, Percussion, Keyboards, Jacky Rosati; Guitar, Jean Louis Suzzoni; Guitar, Bass, Keyboards, Composed by, Marc Ceccotti; Keyboards, Noël Damon. I was sent this as a promotional album back in 1985 with a kind little note from the artists. Sorry it took me so long to put the Christmas-related track in my podcast. This is great example of synth-pop from France in the 1980s. 04:22 01:13:52 27.   Bob Wehrman, John Bezjian and Dusty Wakeman, “Joy to the World” from Christmas Becomes Electric (1984 Tropical Records). Produced in L.A., a collection of pre-fab synthesizer classics. Not the same record of the same title as Douglas Leedy. 02:40 01:18:12 28.   Bob Wehrman, John Bezjian and Dusty Wakeman, “Ring Christmas Bells” from Christmas Becomes Electric (1984 Tropical Records). Produced in L.A., a collection of pre-fab synthesizer classics. Not the same record of the same title as Douglas Leedy. 01:46 01:20:50 29.   Romantic Synthesizer, “So This is Christmas” from Christmas Memories (1983 Dureco Benelux). French-Dutch album. Arranged, produced, synthesizers by Gerto Heupink, Robert Pot. We don't often hear an instrumental rendition of this Lennon and Ono X-mas tune. 03:22 01:22:34 30.   Swinging Buildings, “Praying For A Cheaper Christmas” from Chantons Noël - Ghosts Of Christmas Past (1981 Les Disques Du Crépuscule). From a compilation album of Christmas-related tunes. This group was once rumored to be New Order in disguise. But no, they were in fact The Bowling Balls in disguise. 03:07 01:25:54 31.   Bernie Krause, Philip Aaberg, “Feliz Navidad” from A Wild Christmas (1994 Etherean Music ). This delightful cassette is from Bernie Krause, known for his Moog explorations with Paul Beaver back in the day. All animal and ambient sounds recorded on location worldwide by Bernie Krause with the exception of the fish (courtesy of U.S. Navy). Animal samples, Bernie Krause and Phil Aaberg. Arrangements, new materials, all keyboards (Kurzweil 2000/Emulator III) Phil Aaberg. Percussion on Feliz Navidad performed by Ben Leinbach. 5:37 05:37 01:28:58 32.   The Original Cast: R2-D2, Anthony Daniels As C-3PO, “R2D2 We Wish You A Merry Christmas” from Christmas In The Stars: Star Wars Christmas Album (1980 RSO). Vocals, Arthur Boller, Donald Oriolo, Jr., Dori Greenberg, Ivy Alexenburg, Jake Yeston, Jessica Taylor, Marney Alexenburg, Ricky Haayen, Roddy McBrien, Russell Poses, Scot Randell, Stacy Greenberg; Keyboards, Derek Smith, Harold Wheeler, Pat Rebillot; Sound Effects (R2D2), Ben Burtt. The whole Star Wars crew seems to have a part in this holiday album. I wanted to highlight a track featuring the melodious electronic beeping of R2D2. 03:33 01:34:34 Opening background music: Sounds Of Broadcasting 1, “Christmas Logos” from Sounds Of Broadcasting #6088 (1975? William B. Tanner Company, Inc.). Broadcast library track produced for the holidays. Produced using a Moog Modular Synthesizer. Notice how the melody imitates a familiar tune without ever hitting the same notes. A copyright thing. Another name of this track might as well be, “It's Beginning to Sound A Lot Like Christmas.” Jean Jacques Perrey and Sy Mann, “Tijuana Christmas” from Switched on Santa (1970 Pickwick). USA. Moog Modular Synthesizer. Don Voegeli, “Chanukah” from Holiday & Seasonal Music (1977 EMI). USA. Produced at the Electrosonic Studio of the University of Wisconsin-Extension.   Opening and closing sequences voiced by Anne Benkovitz. Visual design by Anne Benkovitz. Additional opening, closing, and other incidental music by Thom Holmes. See my companion blog that I write for the Bob Moog Foundation. For additional notes, please see my blog, Noise and Notations. Original music by Thom Holmes can be found on iTunes and Bandcamp.  

What if AI could bring the past to life? Cartoonist Amy Kurzweil shares how she helped train an AI chatbot on her late grandfather's archives, allowing her to connect with a family member she never met — and discover family history she never knew. Backed by her own original drawings, she reveals the profound impact art and AI can have in keeping memories alive.

Ben Goertzel discusses AGI development, transhumanism, and the potential societal impacts of superintelligent AI. He predicts human-level AGI by 2029 and argues that the transition to superintelligence could happen within a few years after. Goertzel explores the challenges of AI regulation, the limitations of current language models, and the need for neuro-symbolic approaches in AGI research. He also addresses concerns about resource allocation and cultural perspectives on transhumanism. TOC: [00:00:00] AGI Timeline Predictions and Development Speed [00:00:45] Limitations of Language Models in AGI Development [00:02:18] Current State and Trends in AI Research and Development [00:09:02] Emergent Reasoning Capabilities and Limitations of LLMs [00:18:15] Neuro-Symbolic Approaches and the Future of AI Systems [00:20:00] Evolutionary Algorithms and LLMs in Creative Tasks [00:21:25] Symbolic vs. Sub-Symbolic Approaches in AI [00:28:05] Language as Internal Thought and External Communication [00:30:20] AGI Development and Goal-Directed Behavior [00:35:51] Consciousness and AI: Expanding States of Experience [00:48:50] AI Regulation: Challenges and Approaches [00:55:35] Challenges in AI Regulation [00:59:20] AI Alignment and Ethical Considerations [01:09:15] AGI Development Timeline Predictions [01:12:40] OpenCog Hyperon and AGI Progress [01:17:48] Transhumanism and Resource Allocation Debate [01:20:12] Cultural Perspectives on Transhumanism [01:23:54] AGI and Post-Scarcity Society [01:31:35] Challenges and Implications of AGI Development New! PDF Show notes: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/fyetzwgoaf70gpovyfc4x/BenGoertzel.pdf?rlkey=pze5dt9vgf01tf2wip32p5hk5&st=svbcofm3&dl=0 Refs: 00:00:15 Ray Kurzweil's AGI timeline prediction, Ray Kurzweil, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity 00:01:45 Ben Goertzel: SingularityNET founder, Ben Goertzel, https://singularitynet.io/ 00:02:35 AGI Conference series, AGI Conference Organizers, https://agi-conf.org/2024/ 00:03:55 Ben Goertzel's contributions to AGI, Wikipedia contributors, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Goertzel 00:11:05 Chain-of-Thought prompting, Subbarao Kambhampati, https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.04776 00:11:35 Algorithmic information content, Pieter Adriaans, https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/information-entropy/ 00:12:10 Turing completeness in neural networks, Various contributors, https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/turing-machine/ 00:16:15 AlphaGeometry: AI for geometry problems, Trieu, Li, et al., https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06747-5 00:18:25 Shane Legg and Ben Goertzel's collaboration, Shane Legg, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Legg 00:20:00 Evolutionary algorithms in music generation, Yanxu Chen, https://arxiv.org/html/2409.03715v1 00:22:00 Peirce's theory of semiotics, Charles Sanders Peirce, https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/peirce-semiotics/ 00:28:10 Chomsky's view on language, Noam Chomsky, https://chomsky.info/1983____/ 00:34:05 Greg Egan's 'Diaspora', Greg Egan, https://www.amazon.co.uk/Diaspora-post-apocalyptic-thriller-perfect-MIRROR/dp/0575082097 00:40:35 'The Consciousness Explosion', Ben Goertzel & Gabriel Axel Montes, https://www.amazon.com/Consciousness-Explosion-Technological-Experiential-Singularity/dp/B0D8C7QYZD 00:41:55 Ray Kurzweil's books on singularity, Ray Kurzweil, https://www.amazon.com/Singularity-Near-Humans-Transcend-Biology/dp/0143037889 00:50:50 California AI regulation bills, California State Senate, https://sd18.senate.ca.gov/news/senate-unanimously-approves-senator-padillas-artificial-intelligence-package 00:56:40 Limitations of Compute Thresholds, Sara Hooker, https://arxiv.org/abs/2407.05694 00:56:55 'Taming Silicon Valley', Gary F. Marcus, https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/768076/taming-silicon-valley-by-gary-f-marcus/ 01:09:15 Kurzweil's AGI prediction update, Ray Kurzweil, https://www.theguardian.com/technology/article/2024/jun/29/ray-kurzweil-google-ai-the-singularity-is-nearer

Bislang unbezwingbare Krankheiten heilen, sie gar nicht erst zulassen – und das Leben dramatisch verlängern: Die Hoffnungen darin, mit neuen Methoden die Medizin zu revolutionieren, sind gerade gewaltig. Sie gründen im Kern darauf, dass wir aufgrund der zunehmend verfügbaren Daten und Rechenleistung in der Lage sind, noch genauer zu entschlüsseln, wie der menschliche Körper funktioniert. Und dies im Großen und vor allem im Allerkleinsten. Es geht um mRNA, epigenetische Editoren, Genscheren, um Erkenntnisse über Sport und Ernährung, den Alterungsprozess, das Gehirn oder das Immunsystem. Zugrunde liegt all dessen aber auch ein bestimmtes reduktionistisches Bild vom Menschen: Am Ende ist er eine Informationen verarbeitende Entität. Am Ende geht es darum, ihm neue Informationen zuzuführen, die entsprechende Veränderungen bewirken – und eben beispielsweise Abwehrzellen zu befähigen, Krebszellen zu vernichten. Wo führt das hin? Der Informatiker Ray Kurzweil, der Chemiker Venki Ramakrishnan und der Historiker Yuval Noah Harari haben jüngst Bücher veröffentlicht, die sich dem Thema auf verschiedenen Weisen nähern. Wir diskutieren, wie ihre Ideen zusammenhängen, was die Molekularbiologie schon seit Jahrzehnten weiß, wie weit diese Technologien wirklich sind. Und was am Ende den Menschen ausmacht.

What if AI could bring the past to life? Cartoonist Amy Kurzweil shares how she helped train an AI chatbot on her late grandfather's archives, allowing her to connect with a family member she never met — and discover family history she never knew. Backed by her own original drawings, she reveals the profound impact art and AI can have in keeping memories alive.

What if AI could bring the past to life? Cartoonist Amy Kurzweil shares how she helped train an AI chatbot on her late grandfather's archives, allowing her to connect with a family member she never met — and discover family history she never knew. Backed by her own original drawings, she reveals the profound impact art and AI can have in keeping memories alive.

What if AI could bring the past to life? Cartoonist Amy Kurzweil shares how she trained an AI chatbot on her late grandfather's archives, helping her connect with a family member she never met — and see her family history in a new light. Backed by her own original drawings, she reveals the profound impact art and AI can have in keeping memories alive.

Kurzweil predice un futuro donde la inteligencia artificial superará la inteligencia humana y transformará radicalmente la sociedad. Durante el episodio, se discuten conceptos como la fusión entre humanos y máquinas, la búsqueda de la inmortalidad a través de la tecnología, y los riesgos éticos que conlleva esta evolución. Es un episodio que invita a reflexionar sobre cómo la singularidad tecnológica podría cambiar el curso de la humanidad. iA seguir aprendiendo!

After taking and extended summer holiday, Tom Hatch is back baby! While he was away, Chunga came across and interesting article about "Singlularity". Do you know about the theory and concepts behind Singularity? If you're not familiar, Singularity is that singular moment in time when computers become self-aware, and merge their existence with humanity. This article that Chunga found is from an American computer scientist and futureist named Ray Kurzweil. He claims that because of advancements in A.I., we will acheive Singlularity within the next 21 years. Chunga wants to know what Tom thinks about all of this, and if he agrees with Mr. Kurzweil.  So... Does he?  Listen NOW to find out! Singularity within 21 years! Get started with Salt Project in just a few minutes!

Michael shares his experience growing up as a ham radio operator, studying physics at university, assisting with the development of Kurzweil's assistive tech devices, and escaping the twin towers on September 11th with his guide dog, Roselle.  Please check out his podcast: Unstoppable MindsetBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/stories-of-vision-loss--5626029/support.

Transcription N Our guest this episode is Sandeep Dayal. Sandeep grew up in India and moved to America at the age of 27 to secure his MBA. He stayed in the U.S. to work. He has held positions with a number of major firms where he worked with large clients throughout the world.   My conversation with Sandeep covered what I feel are quite interesting topics around marketing and sales. Because of his knowledge Sandeep and I spend considerable time discussing brands, branding and the many ways the science of brands has evolved. Sandeep gives many relevant examples and ideas we all can use. As he will discuss, his ideas are also contained in his book, “Branding Between the Ears” which many describe as an iconic study of branding. I think you will find Sandeep's insights quite relevant and useful whether you are in marketing or not.   About the Guest:   Sandeep Dayal is the managing director of the consulting firm Cerenti. He advises senior executives at Fortune 500 companies in industries spanning pharmaceuticals, financial services and consumer products.  Global market leaders like Pfizer, Abbvie, HSBC, Santander, Kraft and ConAgra, have been some of his clients. He worked previously for McKinsey and Booz Allen & Hamilton.   Sandeep has led a 100+ engagements at over 50 clients around the world in major countries in the US, EU, Latin America and Asia. He is regarded as one of the leading minds in marketing and brand strategy and has co-authored articles in Marketing Management, McKinsey Quarterly and Strategy+Business. As early as in 2001, he correctly predicted that “consumer collaboration” would become a key factor in winning people's trust online. Many strategies he proposed including viral advocacy and instant decisioning are mainstream today in designing brand experiences.   His latest book “Branding Between the Ears” has been described by some as the definitive advance in the understanding of what makes some brands truly iconic. It draws on his years of experience in working with some of the most successful consumer brands and his company's proprietary knowledge capital. Sandeep's current research focuses on Cognitive Branding and Selling, which translates the latest advances in behavioral economics and social psychology into completely new ways for developing modern power brands and driving up salesforce performance.   Ways to connect with Sandeep:   Sandeep Dayal website: http://sandeepdayal.com Cerenti Company: http://cerenti.com LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandeep-dayal-8361b61/ Blog signup: https://www.cerenti.com/blog   About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.      Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:21 Thank you once again for being here with us on unstoppable mindset. Really appreciate you listening and watching wherever you happen to be. I am your host, Mike Hingson, and our guest today is Sandeep Dayal, who has an interesting story to tell, at least. I think it's interesting. He's going to talk to us a lot about branding and marketing and such things, having been in sales most all of my adult life, all of that gets fascinating to me, but I think that he'll have a lot of interesting topics and issues to provide us all with that will keep you interested as well. And if you're not wake up. You should be anyway. Sandeep, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. I'm   Sandeep Dayal ** 02:06 so delighted to be here. Michael, thank you for inviting me to be on your show.   Michael Hingson ** 02:11 Well, thank you for for being here, and we'll have some fun. Tell me a little bit about maybe the early Sandeep growing up and all that to give people a little background.   Sandeep Dayal ** 02:20 Oh, wow, that was a long time back. You sure want to? You sure you want to go into,   Michael Hingson ** 02:24 oh, sure, a long time ago in a galaxy, far, far away. There   Sandeep Dayal ** 02:29 you go. There was a little Sandeep, yeah. No. I mean, I grew up in, I grew up in India, and, you know, if, if this were still five years back, I would have said half my life was in India, and half my life in the United States, because I came to I came to the US at age 27 but until then, I grew up there in in a city called Jaipur, which is in the middle of a tar desert there. So there you go, you and I have something in common there. And then, I mean, I went through my engineering education, so I was I run. I sort of learned all my my background, you could say, is more analytic and scientific and so on, from a training perspective at that time, which sort of shaped my view of the world at that, that point of time, in terms of, you know, being more objective about things, thinking about things more logically, and so forth. And then at some point, you know, I set up my own little business there, which sort of brought me into areas that were beyond engineering, if you will. You know, like the kinds of things you were talking about, Michael, like sales, you know, how do you how do you form relationships with people? How do you work with people? How do you run an organization, and so on. And that got me much more interested in the the management side of things, versus just the engineering side of things. And I came to the United States in 87 to to Yale University to do my MBA. And, you know, after I finished my MBA, I started working in the US, and I've lived in the US since then. And I got more and more interested in other things, as you might imagine, particularly on consumer connections, the consumer side of things, consumer psychology and what have you. So it's been a, it's been a, you know, multiple year transition. I've worked in a number of consulting companies. I worked at McKinsey, I've worked at booze, and then I started my own company, so renty. So renty Marketing Group, which is much more focused on working with consumers, understanding their psychology, understanding their mindset and so on, and then putting that to use and good marketing and then good branding. So it's been, it's been. It's been a long and, you know, steady journey, if you will. It   Michael Hingson ** 04:57 certainly has been. But you you sound like. Survived it, and you're doing well and and now you're basically getting up near 60. So there you go. There   Sandeep Dayal ** 05:07 you go, yeah. So there, there I am now in at a at a stage in my life where, actually, where I enjoy more of the kinds of discussions that you and I are having right now. Because, you know, my earlier phase of life, I would say, was all about doing stuff, you know, getting it done, making money, doing it, you know, whatever, whichever way, making a career out of it, and what have you. Now, I'm at a point of life where I'm able to sort of sit back and reflect a little and say, hey, you know, what was that all about? You know, what did I really learn? And is there something there that I learned which is worth sharing with others? So that's why I really love being on shows like yours, and particularly yours, around mindsets and being unstoppable and so on, and sort of having a chance to, you know, really see what all those things can possibly mean.   Michael Hingson ** 06:01 Yeah. And on top everything else, you're an author, you've written some books. I love the title of of the one that least I know about branding between the years, and we'll have to get to that. That's kind of cute, but it makes a lot of sense. Also, I think people really don't understand the whole idea of marketing as much as they should. And frankly, I don't think that people really understand sales like they should. And there are differences between the two, but there are also a lot of similarities, and they do, they do dovetail to   Sandeep Dayal ** 06:35 Yes, and   Michael Hingson ** 06:37 so I think it's, it is something that a lot of people don't understand nearly as well as they should, and they're not necessarily making the process work   Sandeep Dayal ** 06:48 like that. And I would say, Michael, that, you know, sales and marketing, they go hand in hand. I wrote the book branding between the years around branding specifically, but it actually there's a whole I could have written also a book which would have been called branding between the years, but it would have been all about sales and but, you know, I this sales is such a big topic and such so interesting and so rich that you don't want to sort of squeeze it into a book which is about branding. You know what I'm saying? So, like, in fact, I mentioned that very specifically in my book, that, look, we could do a whole discussion and a whole book about just the psychology of sales, the behavioral science behind sales, and that's very important, but that's a whole separate book. So I hadn't covered it. There it well,   Michael Hingson ** 07:41 it is. And people really get it wrong. They think of sales as, oh, the guy who's trying to make me buy a car and things like that, and, and in one sense, at a at a very low level, I suppose you could say that sales, but that's not really what sales is all about. I got into sales originally, because I was working for a company, and the company was, well, it was Kurzweil Computer Products, Ray Kurzweil, the inventor and futurist and so on. And at the time, they was developing the reading machine for the blind. And I had been asked to join the company in 1978 and then, like May or June of 1979 I was called in, and I was doing Human Factors studies for them, but I was called in and told I was being laid off because I wasn't a revenue generator for the company, which I wasn't. Then the company had too many non revenue producing people, and I needed to go off and find another job unless I would be willing to go into sales. They gave me that option, which was a was a great compliment, and I said, I don't know anything about sales. And the guy who actually made this offer was the Vice President of Marketing for and sales for Kurzweil, which was a gentleman named Andrew Parsons, by the way, who used to work at McKinsey. Ah,   Sandeep Dayal ** 09:06 I see, I see, wow. Anyway, so yes,   Michael Hingson ** 09:11 so he said, We can teach you sales. We'll send you to a tale Carnegie sales course and so on. And I was very fortunate, because the group and the teachers really talked about the true nature of what sales was all about and what it wasn't about, and that sales is really a good salesperson as a teacher, as a guide, as a counselor. And in reality, I can't sell anyone anything. The customers really gotta want to buy it if I do it right, and and that's that's what it's about. And then that came into play for me years later, when, again, I was looking for another job, and I was debating at the time of looking for the job, and we found a company, my wife and I that we thought would be. A good company to go work for, but I debated about whether I say I'm blind in the cover letter, because that's always an issue. If you're blind and you say it, they usually won't pay any attention to you. And if you don't blind and and if you're blind and you don't say you're blind, then you'll go in for an interview and they'll just the defenses will go up immediately. Yeah. And what I did is I wrote a cover letter. And part of the cover letter said, Do you want to hire somebody who comes into the company and sells for eight or 10 hours a day because it was a sales job, and then goes home? Or do you want to hire somebody who truly understands sales for the science and art that it is and sells 24 hours a day as a way of life, which is what a blind person has to do just to be able to convince people to let them do stuff. And it was the that sentence was what got me the interview and got me the job. Wonderful,   Sandeep Dayal ** 10:50 wonderful, you know, you just, you know, you've just inspired me to actually talk about some, you know, some things in sales. And I do make a connection around this topic in my book in the following way. So, you know, branding, you can think of it in two parts. You know, there's one part of branding which is around strategy, which is around, you know, what is your brand going to be positioned? You know, how is your brand going to be positioned? What is it going to be its DNA? What is the brand going to be about? So that's those are decisions and choices you make around what your brand is going to be, which are more stray. But then once you made those choices, your brand actually goes to market, right? And it goes to market often through what sometimes companies will call brand ambassadors. But these are all the people that are in stores. You know? These are, these are the sales side of the people, right? The people that are actually, this is where the rubber meets the road. And so the brand actually goes to market through its ambassadors, who are really the salespeople, the retail people, and what have you. And they have to their work is just so incredibly important. It's just as important as the design of the brand. And I'll give you a couple of examples, because, you know, this is a topic that's close to my heart. So for example, you think of a company like Bulgaria, right, which sells this awfully expensive jewelry, right, hundreds of 1000s of dollars and what have you. And you have to, even if you selling to rich people, they still, you know, think about these things, because these things are pretty expensive. So one of the things what they've done is that they've actually thought through that whole process of from the time that the person is walking into their store to every single moment that they are in the store, to how the purchase happens, and what the post purchase follow up is they've talked through all those things, and I'll give you a very small example about the kinds of things which are more behavioral science oriented, which is, which is where we're going in this discussion. So one of the things they do is that when the salesperson is going to notice that, Hey, you, you know, you're a woman and you like a particular necklace, what they do is they have you, you know, you're sitting in a private room. You're looking at this necklace. There's the salesperson with you, and the person will say to you that look or the brand ambassador, let's call them that. The brand ambassador is going to say, hey, why don't you try it on and what have you? And the woman can then go ahead, the customer can then go ahead and try the necklace on and look at it. And then the salesperson does something where that's very interesting. They say, hey, you know what? I need to just step out and take care of something. Would it be okay if I just do that for five minutes while you're, you know, sitting here? So then they walk out of the room. And now you can imagine, here's the customer, the woman, she's sitting there with the necklace she's wearing, and there's no one to bother her or try to push her into the scale or try to She's just sitting there by herself, and every minute and every second that she's there with that necklace, it's feeling to her more and more like her own. And you know, in psychology, there has been a lot of research that has been done, which basically says that once people feel like something is theirs, they are less likely to part with it. They're less likely to give it up, you know. So it could be anything. It could be, you know, let's say it could be a pen that you own and but once you own it, you start valuing it more than if you didn't own it and it was just sitting on the shelf, and there's been just a lot of research to show that that is the case. So in this instance, what happens is, it's not the single thing that drives the person to the sale, but it is one one step, one small thing that they do which pushes the person or coaxes the person to take one step more, you know, feel like that thing is their own. So that is, you know, that is, that's what selling is about. It's not about, you know, just pushing used cars and so on. So really understanding the mindset and working with people, helping them get comfortable with the idea of owning your product is a critical thing that you do. In another example that I'll give you, this is from. Another very famous behavioral psychologist, Paco Underhill. He wrote a book about why people buy. This was several years it was one of the books that inspired me to get into this whole area. And he used to observe how people shop in stores, and he would make little changes in the stores to help people be more likely to buy. And one of the things he observed was that when you kept items, like, if you had women sweaters, and you put them on a table right in the middle of the aisle, right so you're walking through the aisle in a store, and sometimes you'll see there's a table right there in the middle of the aisle. So you run into the table, and there are whole sweaters piled up there, and you can then, you know, start looking at them. But he found that on one hand, you could say, Hey, I'm putting it right in the middle of the traffic where you're going to be walking, so you'll have no choice but to stop and look at it. But what he found was that women would stop, they would look at those sweaters, but then they would quickly walk away. And the reason that it was happening was that if they stopped in the middle of the aisle, that people would brush by them, and they would it would make them just feel uncomfortable. You know, when somebody just comes in, someone that you don't know, just walking by that brushes by you, it makes you feel uncomfortable. So they would stop there, but they wouldn't stop there long enough to look and make up their minds. So he just had them move those tables to a more comfortable space where someone could not only stop but look at those things at their leisure. And they found that the sales went up. So it's these, it's these little things that you know, that people don't think these are all parts of being a good brand ambassador, and it's all parts of designing the sales experience or the marketing experience for the person in such a way that they're going to be more inclined to prefer your product. So it's just, I wasn't really going to talk about these things, but you brought it up, and it just brought back these things.   Michael Hingson ** 16:58 Another thing that comes to mind just talking about that same thing, which is sort of unrelated, in a way, to exactly what you're talking about is, is this, my wife was in a wheelchair her whole life, and would go to many stores, and when there were blocks in the middle of aisles like tables with sweaters and so on, she couldn't get by. And places like Macy's, for years, just had very narrow aisles, yeah, because they wanted to stuff as much in which they felt was a good thing to do, except then people in wheelchairs couldn't get through. Well, Macy's eventually had to deal with that, because they were sued and they lost, but, but the reality is, I'm sure that that changed to a degree, in some ways, how people viewed exactly where they should put products and so on. And it's a little bit of a different dimension than, than, than what, what you're talking about, but still, nevertheless, yeah, it is also part of what we need to do to recognize that we've got to be inclusive in what we do for everyone.   Sandeep Dayal ** 18:10 Absolutely. I mean, I mean, it's, this is, you know, we're you and I are just talking about some examples here, but this is actually a whole area of science and design, right, which is, when you when you're a company, how exactly yours, your products are displayed in a store, you know, what height they're at, how they're displayed, what kind of a message that communicates to people is, is such an extremely Is it such an important thing that we, in our company, in serenity, we can be doing entire studies, which are, you know, like, three month long studies where we're just designing that whole aspect of how the product is presented in a store for the consumer, for all of them to feel comfortable, for all of them to feel like this is something that they would like to own. And that whole process, like I described about, you know, every moment that you spend getting to that store, being in that store, and then after leaving that store, you know what is every single moment? What's your playbook for that moment is a key piece of what marketing, sales, behavioral science is all about, right?   Michael Hingson ** 19:16 Well, the the idea of sales and marketing and branding and so on is always going to be a moving target. It's a market of or a process of evolution, because as we learn more, as we develop more understanding of psychology and so on, we're going to change it. But I know you talk about the fact that there is the old branding techniques, and there's a lot of new branding. How is branding kind of evolved over time?   Sandeep Dayal ** 19:47 Yeah, now interesting that you bring out. So let's talk about, you know, the whole brand strategy piece, which is, you know, how do you design, how do you design brands, and so on. And I think I in some ways, brand. Marketing is not rocket science, and in other ways it is. So the part that is been relatively straightforward about branding historically has been that, look, if you have a product and you're an entrepreneur, you have a product and you're going to mark put it to market, you just, you know, you start thinking about, okay, how is my product different from everybody else's products. And then once you make a list of all those things that are different, then you say, oh, okay, now which of these things are kind of important for people? And maybe I pick three or four things, and then I can talk about that. And the problem is that while all of that makes a lot of sense, what doesn't make sense is that that's not how the human brain works. So what happens when you make a list of things that are different about your product? It's kind of like, you know, it's kind of like the occasion where my wife gives me a list of things that I need to go and buy from the grocery store, and she might tell me only five things that I have to buy. And I go to the grocery store, you know, I'm, I can't remember what those five things are, and I go, and I come back with three things that were on the list, two that are missing, and maybe another three things that were not on the list at all to begin with, right? So that's, and that's a very natural thing that happens, which is that human beings, our brains are not really designed around remembering lists. So when the marketer goes and said, My brand is about these three things, you know that it's this is, this is something that's going to make your life easy, or, then this thing is very tasty. Well, you know, easy, tasty, like, you know, how am I going to remember all those things. So now, for example, in behavioral science, there's a whole theory around story lining, which is that people are going to remember your brands better if you can put a storyline around it. And the reason is that, like you know, while we are, if I give you a list of 10 things to remember, you're not going to remember. It becomes 10 words to remember. Can become very hard, but at the same time, I can send you to watch. You know, you might go to, you know, somebody might tell you a story about a play that they saw right, which could be a whole 30 minute story, and you might then just be able to remember that story in all its detail, because it's a story, right? Or somebody comes like you now you're telling me about your life and how you went through, you know, you went through the transition from your job to sales, and how you were with Ray Kurzweil. And so I've already remembered more than five things, right, because you, because you told me the thing in such a compelling way, and such a story, you know, in such a story form. And so what we are discovering scientifically is that when you tell people things in terms of stories, when you show them things in terms of patterns, when you when you do rhymes, for example. So there are certain types of things that the brain remembers better than if you just give it lists. So this whole old idea that used to exist that I'm just trying to make my brand about the two or three things that I'm different about just doesn't work, because people, when you tell them that those two or three things, they just don't remember it. And if they don't remember it, are they going to buy your product? So now we are starting to take this new understanding of behavioral science and the psychology that we have from various studies that are being done about the human brain. Right? There's a lot of study that's being done about the human brain, from neuroscientists, from linguists, from cognitive psychologists and so on, and all of them, if you take their knowledge and bring it together, it's giving us an understanding of how the brain actually works. And now you can use that understanding of how the brain works to start thinking better about how you do, how you do the designing around your brands, the strategy around your brand better.   Michael Hingson ** 24:08 And that's in large part what the whole concept of cognitive branding is all about. That's   Sandeep Dayal ** 24:15 what, exactly what cognitive branding is all about. The you know, the name of the book branding between the years is really the illusion to the to the fact that, you know what's between the years. Between the years is our brain, right?   Michael Hingson ** 24:28 For some people, that's what's between the years. And there are others, I'm not so sure   Sandeep Dayal ** 24:34 if there's anything there. Whatever is there that's that really is, is is our perception of the world, right? You know, our perception of what reality is, what the world is, who we are, everything that we think about, what the brands are, it's all. It's not, it's not the billboard out there. It's not what the store it's not that little song jingle, and you know, all of these things. Is, but it's when all of those different things, the touch and feel, the sound and sight, and I mean, all of these things actually are processed in your brain. And so your vision of what this thing is, what this brand is, what it's all about, is really determined. It's arbitrated between your ears. And that's why, you know, the book is called right between   Michael Hingson ** 25:23 wait you you talked before about the woman trying on the necklace, and then the branding Ambassador leaving, and about ownership and so on. It really ultimately comes down to getting people to relate to whatever it is that you're you're trying to get them to relate to and getting them to to feel some ownership, but more important just feeling ways to relate. I sold a number of products that were very similar to products that other companies would produce. I sold big tape backup storage systems that people would use to back up data on Wall Street and other places. And although we were the developers of some of the technology, other companies would would buy our technology, and they would put it in their own products. And the reality is, ultimately, speaking, there were not huge differences directly physically. There were differences in shapes and so on, but they weren't really different. And so the issue is, why would one buy my product as opposed to someone else's? And that's where it gets back to, what is it that we're really talking about, what is it that we're really doing. Why would you buy my product as opposed to somebody else? That has a lot to do with, not just and not at all necessarily, with here are the differences. But rather, you have to find other things that people are going to react to, that they'll perceive your your product as being the one that they ought to have, and it's my job to help them see that in an intelligent way, while at the same time not alienating other people and making me look like just the used car sales guy.   Sandeep Dayal ** 27:15 Yes, yes. And I think that my whole book is really about that very question, which is, which is that, why would somebody buy your brand, right? And and it comes from that study of really understanding how people have bought brands and how in my companies work. So my company does a lot of work around designing brands and helping companies launch their products. And some of those brands have gone on to become some of the largest brands in the world. But really it is, it is, in fact, around that whole question around the why and what, what has changed is. And of course, you know, sometimes, like I said, you can give people a set of reasons, and they will, for those reasons, buy your product. But what we're finding through science is that, what we're finding through science is that it's not, it's not the case that people always make decisions so rationally, you know, it's not the case that people always sit down and do like, a pros and cons of things you know, like, Okay, this is product A, Product B. Let me do a pros and cons. Let me do a spreadsheet on this and so on. People do a lot of things very instinctively, for example. And in fact, there is research that has been done which is, which has shown that 95% of all the choices that people make Okay, in your life, you know in your every day there are 1000s of choices you're making all the time, and there's research that shows that 95% of those choices are done instinctively and not deliberately, right? And this science is called system one and system two by a very famous psychologist who gave those terms to these forms of thinking, the instinctive and the rational thinking. The psychologist name is Daniel Kahneman, and he is at Princeton University. But it's something that you can actually this is something that you can intuitively relate to, which is that you know, for example, when you're driving a car, there are a lot of choices that you're making, and those are very complex life and death choices, right? Because if you make a make a mistake in terms of how you drive the car, but you make choices around how fast you're going to go, how much you're going to press the accelerator, whether you're going to take a left, are you going to veer to the right? You know, all of those choices you're making, and you're just doing that instinctively, almost, not almost without thinking many times people are singing or thinking about something else as they're driving and so on. And all of this is happening instinctively. And the reality is that even when it comes down to branding, there are many, many things that people do. Um. Instinctively and make those choices instinctively. So understanding what that is and how that happens is is a key as is a key part of key part of how you can make brand choices. So I'll give you an example. So what happens is, as we go through our lives, we have many, many different experiences based on those experiences, we have certain learnings, and with those learnings, and those are learnings that I I would call like, that's the wisdom that we acquire over life as a result of the experiences that we have in our life, right? And those are our personal wisdoms, you know? Those are things that you know we have. We have decided this is what, this is how things work. So for example, there's one common wisdom which is seen across many, many people, across countries and so on, where people say, hey, the simpler answer is the better answer, right? And there's a, there's an effect around it's called the Occam's razor, which is, you know, which basically says that, given a problem, and if there are two possible answers to the to the problem, then the simpler answer is the better answer, right? And lot of times this comes from the vis. This kind of wisdom comes from the aspect that you know, Don't over complicate life. Don't overthink things. You know, you did things, such things, sometimes you can decide quickly. So what marketers have done, for example, there is, there's a company called HEB, which is a grocery store in the south where they make prepared meals. And so they did a whole campaign where they essentially say, where they essentially say that, you know, life is complicated. So they had actually an ad where you see this person who is, you know, driving back from work, and there's, he looks up his GPS system, and the GPS says your expected arrival time is Thursday, which was like two days away, which obviously they were exaggerating it. But the idea was to say that, look, life is so complex all the time. You're dealing with traffic and so on, meal time shouldn't be. And then, you know, and then they make a plug for their prepared meals, which is, you know, life is difficult, but meal time shouldn't be and then you have their prepared meals. Now mind you, what they're talking about making life simpler here is not, they're not necessarily saying that, you know, take my prepared meal and put it for two seconds in the, you know, microwave and it's ready to eat. It's not that ease that they're talking about. What they're talking about is the ease of choice, because choice, when we start thinking about choice, it can be very stressful when we have to make sure. So they're saying, take that decision, make that decision. Making around, you know, you already had a tough day. Make the decisions around your meal time, at least easy, you know, which is by, you know, because otherwise, if you were going to make your own meal, you'd be thinking about, Hey, should I eat healthy? Should I eat carbs? Should I do this? Should I, you know, greens? Should I do? You know, there's like a million choices to be made if you're going to make your own meal, but with this, all those choices become very simplified, because you can, you have your pick of all kinds of prepared meals that they sell in their stores. So lowering that burden of choice is what the Occam's Razor is about. And here it's a marketer that is very cleverly doing that. Now mind you, are there prepared me, let's go back to the point you made. Are there prepared meals that much better than, let's say the prepared meals you might get at a Dominic's or a jewel Osco or, say, or an Albertsons. Maybe not, right? But nonetheless, this campaign really taps into the idea that meal time shouldn't have to be so complicated. So go for it, and then you think of that, and you automatically do it, because choice can be instinctive. This is just one example, but there are many, many different things like this that help you, give you a sense of how people make choices. And in my book, I talk about seven different ways that brands, that you can make new brands, these types of brands, which sort of tap into your experiential wisdom. I call them brands with wisdom. That's one way to make great brands. But then you know, of course, there are many other ways that you can do it.   Michael Hingson ** 34:28 Do you think that in Hey, say it this way, but I will a perfect world. It would be better if we made choices instinctively or really analyzed. Or do you think the animal analyzation just introduces too much stress?   Sandeep Dayal ** 34:46 Well, it's it's stress, it's a lot of work. Also, you know, if you're going to analyze everything, you know it's just not possible to analyze everything, which is, the whole idea about learnings, right? Was Once you learn something, you want to be able to use. At learning as broadly as possible, right? And which is why there's all kinds of, you know, there's, there's, there's all kinds of advice from all kinds of sources, from religious sources, from your from your mother, from your from your wife, from your, you know, you from your friends, you get from experts, you get all kinds of advice because you want to be able to have certain principles so that you can live life without having to spend a whole day doing spreadsheets around what's a good choice and what's a bad choice. Having said that, there are certain times when you do have to think when the learnings that are available to you are outside of the experience that you had previously in life. In those instances, you do have to think so it's a this is this is this is a this is a good balance that we have to arrive. And you know, one of the examples that I mentioned in my book is, let's say you're going out and taking a mortgage on your for your home, right? Wow, that's a complicated discussion. Wow. That's a decision where, if you make a mistake, that could be very costly, you could find that Sunday you can't afford your mortgage, you know. So it can be pretty complicated. And so that, in fact, would be a good time to bring out a spreadsheet and, you know, sit down, and maybe sit with a pencil and pencil and a pencil and a piece of paper and write down what the positives and negatives, and you know, different mortgage products might be and what have you, and and also maybe read the fine print. And what happens, though, is that most of the time, we will make a mixed decision, where we will do some instinctive work and some and some appeal, you know, real analysis. So what you might do is you might say, Okay, I gotta get a mortgage. Hmm, you know, which of my friends have you know got a mortgage recently? And maybe I go and talk to them about how their experience has been. Maybe I go, maybe I go talk to Michael, because financially, he's such a smart guy, you know, I'm gonna idea if he's, if he's going for a mortgage with with Bank of America, that must be a good place to go. So I'll most likely go with Bank of America, because Michael went. So this is, that is part of what the now, that is part, part of what is drawing into an expert bias, or a part of what is drawing into a herd effect, right, where people go in a certain direction because they say, hey, everybody else is doing it right? Or person that is an expert is doing it, which is why you see so many ads and in television where there's some ex so called expert who's telling you to do X, Y and Z, and then you say, you stop to think for yourself, and you do it. Now, there are risks with it and but nonetheless, when you're designing brands, we do have to balance, because that can be, in fact, a legitimate strategy where we have certain experts or certain very respected people that are going to make make a recommendation or a suggestion of a product, and then people are going to do it well, if you do it responsibly, that that is a very viable brand strategy that certain brands will take Sure.   Michael Hingson ** 38:11 And if you're going to go into an analysis mode, you need to understand what that means and how to analyze. And you know, for for example, you talked about the expert and, well, I'm going to do it, because he's he's doing it, and there are risks in doing that, and one should really take the time, although I think a lot of people don't, to analyze and look at real facts. Okay, so he had a great success. What about my other friends over here who bought a house in the last couple of years? Yes, and really taking the time to explore it and do it right. If you're going to analyze, really analyze, and don't just look at one person or take one view, it's like you go to a doctor and you get a diagnosis, and then you decide, I really need a second or a third opinion. Do that right? Because it'll make all the difference in the world. Yes.   Sandeep Dayal ** 39:07 Yes, it does. And as you can see, you know, some of these things also come into play, not just in marketing, but you know, right now, we're in the middle of campaigns, campaigns, and there's a lot of very strategic marketing that's done by, you know, in politics, and that's a whole, you can write a whole book about Sure, which is, you know, which is the different strategies that politicians may use to get people to decide. Because, remember, it's, there's only so many voters that are going to actually sit and do a in depth analysis of different policies that have been put in place by different politicians. What was the economic impact of it? You know, whether it's immigration policy, whether it's economic or whatever, you know, whatever I mean, to really do the. The analytics around, did that policy actually work out, and who did it benefit? And so on. Is a lot of work and and most people are not really going to do that,   Michael Hingson ** 40:10 so they should, but they won't. You're absolutely right. Yes, yes.   Sandeep Dayal ** 40:13 I mean, and I think they should do it, I would say at least they should do a mix of the two, right? They should. They have to understand, like, Hey, what's going on? What am I? How do I make some good decision around certain things? But often they may, they may pick on one or two things which align with, really, their system of beliefs, right? Which is why it's important for politicians. Find it very important to figure out what your beliefs are and try to align with them, because they know, if they can do that, then they will go with then you will go with that, because it's already in your belief system and so become very important in marketing, in politics, in our relationships with people, in sales, you know, these are Very important things that influence our lives. In very important ways, sure,   Michael Hingson ** 41:04 and I think that when take taking the politicians, as you said, they you want, you want to see that they've aligned with your beliefs. But I think the other aspect of that, which goes back to analysis, is, are they really aligning with your beliefs, or are they just saying it? And the problem is that we are seeing so much today where there are a lot of things being said and most people are just going strictly on emotion, and they're not analyzing, and that's doing a disservice to everyone. And it would really be great if people would do more real analysis of all of the politicians on both sides and look at what's really happened. I was just reading an article this morning about the economy, and the reality is that it said that the in fact, the most of the naysayers about the economy today come from one party and not the other, and that that's happened more often than not over the last many years. In terms of economy, the people who are going by the party, and that's real lovely. But is that reality? And the problem is, we don't take the time to really look at it,   Sandeep Dayal ** 42:12 yes, and, you know, and that is, it's just, and that's the reality of it. Michael, which is that people's lives are very complicated. There are a lot of things that they're doing, you know. And they have to go to work, they have to cook meals for their kids, they have to have more, you know. There's just so many things happen, yeah. So realistically speaking, people only give a fraction of their mind, of their brain capacity, to many of these decisions, and which is why, as brand marketers, we have to be very cognizant of the fact that people are going to make these decisions based on their own learnings, their own experiences. And therefore, you know, how do we make sure that we can get some preference from them by understanding what their experiences and what their belief systems are. Now, mind you, you have to do this with a sense of responsibility, because, you know, with with all of this learning about how people make their decisions, comes the opportunity to manipulate people you don't want, you know, for brands, you don't want your work to be around doing that. You want to be doing things in in a responsible way. Because, you know, because that is the right thing to do   Michael Hingson ** 43:32 right, and it's important to to do that, and to really take the time to do it right. And it is just kind of one of the issues that we face that a lot of people aren't going to take the time to really analyze or take the time to understand, I'm just too busy to do that. Yeah, yeah. And people take advantage of that and do spin things and try to just manipulate. And unfortunately, there's way too much that going on in so many things that we observe and see today, because they're taking advantage of the fact that people are so busy. Yes,   Sandeep Dayal ** 44:09 yes. And that's why, you know, when I in my book, I have a whole chapter, by the way, and in the book on ethics, you know, so it's, it's called branding with ethics, and it's, it is exactly about that point, which is with this knowledge and with this learning. Because, you know, when you read my book, you're, you know, we've talked about maybe two or three things out of the book in terms of how you can influence people, but in the book, there are 30 different things that you can learn. So because it's an it's an entire playbook for how you do this, well, right? But with that, but with that, comes that responsibility for every marketer to understand what is the right way to do that. Because, yeah, you might, you might get some bump in sales. You might, you know, make a nice little bonus one here. But ultimately, these things can. And, yeah, not the right things to do, you know, so you have to. So, in fact, in the book, and let me see if I can remember my own book, there are, you know, few things that I talk about. I talk about three principles that every, every branding campaign must pass through. So one is this whole idea of that we understand as the canonical principle, which is, you know, do unto others as you would they do want to use. So don't do a campaign which you wouldn't want someone doing to you or to your kids or something like that. Right? So that's one thing that that is, that is, that's a no no. Second thing that is a no no is that don't do anything, which is this actually comes from a philosopher by the name of Immanuel Kant, a very famous German philosopher, Immanuel Kant, who came out with something called a categorical imperative. And really what he talks about is that don't do anything, which if everyone started doing that, would be a social, you know, that would be a social detriment, right? That the detriment of the society don't do something that, which, if everybody else also did, would really lead to a deterioration of society. And so that's another principle that that is very important. And then the last one is, you know, the sun, the sunshine principle, which is, don't do anything, which, if people discovered that you had done it, that you would feel embarrassed about it, right? So you know things that you're willing to talk about, the do, things that if they appeared in the front pages of the New York Times, that this is what you did, that you wouldn't be embarrassed by it. You wouldn't, you would still be proud of what you had done so with those three things, I find that most market you know, most marketing dilemmas, most branding dilemmas, can, in fact, be be addressed. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 46:53 and that makes perfect sense by any standard a question that I'm been thinking about. You dealt with a lot of pharma companies and so on, and I would suspect that in dealing with a lot of pharmaceutical organizations and so on, you've interviewed a lot of people, probably a lot of people with disabilities and so on. How do you think that the work that you are doing and have done has really benefited or affected them?   Sandeep Dayal ** 47:20 Yes, I think that is, I think actually one of the things that I do a lot of work in the pharmaceutical sector, actually, and in the healthcare sector generally. But in the pharmaceutical sector, for one, and I actually love working in that space. It is, you know, as a marketer, it's, it's where you you really feel like you're actually making a big impact, to be honest. Because you know when, when the some pharmaceutical companies these days have come up with some fantastic drugs, which I've personally seen have made a phenomenal difference in in people's lives. You know, you can imagine, as a marketer, if you will, I have a choice of working for consumer product companies and tell them how to sell a box of cereals in a better way, or I can work with a pharmaceutical company and help them, you know, with get a get a drug to market, which is really going to have a transforming effect on a person's life, and so in my calculus, in my equation, that has weighed heavily, which is that when you work with these companies, with the healthcare companies, you're so close to truly appreciating people's people's lives and how those things can and can be, can be altered. So lot of times in the work that I've done, it's been, it's been very much about understanding how, how people that have certain disabilities or certain diseases in certain cases, how their lives are really being impacted, how that disease is robbing something away from them, but understanding it through their lens and seeing how you can actually come in with a conversation oftentimes, you know you Those are things that don't have anything to do with the drug that you're going to be marketing, but nonetheless, having that total understanding is essential to actually connecting with that person to begin with. You know, because remember that branding and marketing is a lot about communications, unless you can understand how you're going to relate to that person and how you are going to communicate with that person, you're actually not going to make process. You're not going to make progress, and you're not going to be able to get them in a place which is a better place for them. And so in that sense, it's very important. I'll give you an example. There was one time I was working with, with a company called AbbVie, which has one of the most successful drugs called humera, which is for people with rheumatoid arthritis, right? And in rheumatoid arthritis is it's kind of like a lifelong disease. And before this drug came out, people used to go through a lifetime of suffering, you know, in terms of joint pain, in terms of stiffness in their joints and so on. And it was just just a very, you know, difficult situation. There were no good no good solutions out there. However, when the when the drug came out, we were finding that even people that could benefit from this drug, you know, that they were not actually taking it, because they said, Hey, this is a newfangled drug. It's a biologic, gee, I've been taking, you know, pain pills, and it's kind of fine. I've spent the last 20 years in pain, and I've kind of managed IT and, and I'll be fine. I don't need to take some, you know, this new fangled, maybe experimental drug. It wasn't experimental, but nonetheless, nonetheless, that's how people can think about it. I don't want to experiment on right and, and it was kind of like, you know, we really had to understand that, that mindset, because we, you know, one time I talked to, I was doing a focus group, and I was talking to this woman. Her name was Lisa, and she was, you know, talking about her things. And I was telling her, Hey, Lisa. And this was when I was a young marketer, less, much less experienced and much less wiser than I am now. I was telling Lisa, hey, look, you know, this is a fantastic day. I don't understand why you're not taking it, because it's a fantastic drug. Your pain will go away, your stiffness will go away, and you're going to feel a lot better. You'll be able to go, go get a job. You'll you know this is, this is just going to change your life. You know what's, what's going on here? And she sort of stopped me, and she said, looked at me, and she said, Look, Sandeep, if you don't understand what I'm going through and what my life is all about. How are you going to help me? And that was kind of such a, you know, it was a moment that sort of stopped me, because at that moment, sort of it was kind of very perplexing to me. Because remember market, as a marketer, you came from that mindset that if I tell you what my product, how my product is different, and what it does, then you should obviously want it right? That was the mindset. That was the list branding mindset. But here, what I was being told by this person was that look, unless you unders, unless I have that connection with you, unless I understand, unless I feel, unless I can trust that you are a person that can relate to what I'm going through, and you understand my life, I'm not going to trust anything. Right? Which is fair, which is fair, so, which is but as a young marketer at that time, I didn't understand, sure, and I was, hey, well, you know, why does she care whether I understand her life or not? You know, I've got a drug that's going to change your life, you know, so, but that is that sort of got me on this journey of understanding, what is this consumer psychology? What is this? What is the what are these things that are going to help people change their behaviors? And then you get into all these things about wisdom, around beliefs, around values, around empathy, which are all the different ways in which you can design brands, which are going to be way more effective, which I then talk about in my book, and with all these different experiences that I have, and I, of course, I give lots of examples and stories because, remember, we said stories are important, so you need to be able to tell stories so that people can can can remember what you're saying better, but, yeah, that's so it's a book about brands, but it's a book about stories. Really, one   Michael Hingson ** 53:48 of the things that I find being blind, so if you will, that I find as a person with a disability is that we tend not to be included in the conversation. Yeah, people make so many assumptions about disabilities, and they start with the basic premise, well, disability means lack of ability. Well, it doesn't, but we, we don't get included in a lot of the conversations. And so the result is we have things like people who are diabetic and who let's let's use people who are blind and diabetic or have diabetes. The problem is that the way to deal with measuring insulin and really dealing with measuring blood glucose have been very primitive, and while there is newer technology that allows for more constant monitoring, just recently, the first version that has the potential to be accessible for people who happen to be blind has come on the market and has been approved, and that actually is using an app with a with. The constant monitor that transmits to the app, but, but the reality is, there's so many issues and so many types of things where we get left out because the pharmaceutical industry doesn't include it, or consider it a high enough priority, or it's too expensive, and again, a total lack of understanding or value of what we bring to the marketplace, and how do we deal with changing that?   Sandeep Dayal ** 55:28 Yes, I mean, that is such a great example that you're bringing, you know, bringing from your from your personal life. So thank you for sharing that. But I think you know in the example that I talked about, it was the same thing that was very apparent, which is, even when people are, you know, not necessarily, they don't necessarily have a disability, you know. So they're not blind, they're not you know, but they still get left out of conversations, yeah, right, because the people that are in a position of power, or the marketers, are just not listening to everything that listening to there are not sensitive, you know, they talk about being customer centric, but they really are not, and that is because they because, you know, and it's, and I'll give you an example, you know, outside of disabilities, I'll give you an example about how people get left out of conversations in many different ways. So there was a campaign that recently for and that was done by by Samsung, you know, again, a very rich company with the best marketers in the world. No shortage of resources and so on. And they were, they were, you know, marketing, their new watch, you know, like to compete with Apple Watch. Apple Watch, right? And they came out with this campaign in which they showed this woman that's running through, you know, decides at two in the morning to run through some streets, and she's running through these very sketchy streets, and she's in the in middle, the middle of the night, and so on. And she is, you know, there is another person that is kind of just playing with her, biking around her and so on. And it was kind of a very sketchy ad, which, which, which was put out there. And what happened was, when they put this ad out there, they thought it was super cool. The ad agency thought it was super cool because they're very cool graphics. But then again, the person that you're leaving out of that conversation is really the customer and consumer, right? Yeah, and they put out this ad, and women saw this ad, and they said, You've got to be kidding. And right around the time that this ad came out in Ireland, there was a woman who had, in fact, gone out running at night, and, you know, and then and she got, she got attacked, you know, and she got attacked and raped and this and that. So there was that whole story going and meanwhile they come out with this ad, which is almost depicting this kind of a situation, this woman in this and they're thinking it's pretty cool, because of the graphics that they've done, and so you have to be very sensitive to not just what you're saying, but what the other person is actually hearing, you know? And I'm saying hearing in a, in a, in a kind of medical right, which is you have to be able to see things from the from the eyes, from the ears, you know, from the perspective of the person that is actually getting this message. Otherwise, you are doing what you just said, which is you're leaving them out of the conversation. And I think that is what you just described so eloquently in your own experience, right?   Michael Hingson ** 58:47 And and it happens so often in so many different ways. We have been doing this about an hour, and I think we're going to have to stop so we don't get people too, too tired of us. But a couple of things, but a couple of things. Can we, can we continue this and do another episode in the future?   Sandeep Dayal ** 59:06 Oh, of course, yeah, you know, I'd be happy to talk to you, Michael, this is, I think we should do it easy for me, it just, it just kind of flows. So if you're getting what you need out of this, then I'm happy to to do this in Oh,   Michael Hingson ** 59:20 I think, we should. How can people reach out to you and so on, if they'd like to,   Sandeep Dayal ** 59:26 so that there are multiple ways that they can do that they can go to my blog website, which is simply my name, sandeepdayal.sandeepdayal.com   Michael Hingson ** 59:35 Can you spell that, please? That   Sandeep Dayal ** 59:38 is S, A, N, D, E, P, D, A, Y A L, at, sir, at, sorry, no, I made them say Sandeepdayal.com.com that's what that is, yes, or they can go to my company website, cerenti.com, C, E R, E N T I.com Com. And in both instances, there is a place where they can send messages. And I usually look at those messages personally and respond. I always respond,   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:12 well, cool. Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to come on. And I do want to do another episode, so we will schedule. We have to schedule a time and record it, because I know there are lots of other questions and things that we can delve into. So if you don't mind, I think we should do it.   Sandeep Dayal ** 1:00:28 Yeah, we'll do that. Let me just mention to you that I am going to be actually out of the country in February and March, coming back in the middle of April. Okay, either we can do it then, or if you wanted to do it earlier, I mean, I can, I'll be in India, but I can still, I've done lots of webinars from there, so it's not an issue, as long as we can work with the time difference. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:52 bottom line is, like we did with this one, we'll schedule it at whatever time is. Can we end for you? So I'll, I'll resend, I'll resend the link, and you just schedule it for when you want. So if you want. So if you want to do it when you get back, that's okay, whatever works for you.   Sandeep Dayal ** 1:01:06 Okay, yeah, no, I'd love to do it. Michael, so thank you. Thank you again for including me on your podcast.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:12 Well, thank you, and I want to thank you all for listening. We really appreciate it. I hope that you'll give us a five star rating wherever you're listening to unstoppable mindset. We really value your ratings and we value your input. You'd like to reach out to me. You can do so by sending me an email at Michael M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I, B, E.com, Michael at Access Michael h i@accessibe.com or go to our podcast page, www, dot Michael hingson.com/podcast, and Michael Hingson and again, is M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, S O N.com/podcast, so please do that and send deep for you, as well as others. If you know of somebody else who we ought to have on as a guest on unstoppable mindset, really would appreciate you emailing me or letting me know we are always looking for more people to have on, although it is fun to talk to somebody more than once like we will do with Sandeep, well, thank you all for listening and again. Sandeep, I want to thank you one last time for being here as well.   **Sandeep Dayal ** 1:02:14 Thank you very much for having me. I enjoyed this.   1:02:22 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while

For me it was my accommodations I had in college. I was able to record the audio of lectures. Had audio version of textbooks and extra time on tests. I took the test in a room with fewer distractions and by myself. I also was able to have my ESA dog Truffles with me in the exam room. I used Kurzweil 3000, audio-noteaker and sonocent. Links for articles: https://www.weareevolve.com/blog/empowering-neurodiverse-individuals-with-assistive-devices-and-technology/#:~:text=Tools%20like%20screen%20readers%20and,can%20help%20with%20processing%20information https://www.helloedlife.com/post/top-20-technology-choices-helping-individuals-on-the-autism-spectrum-in-2021 https://www.deepwrk.io/blog/adhd-products Link for Pateron:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ patreon.com/LivingWithAnInvisibleLearningChallenge⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Link for BetterHelp sponsorship: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/3A15Ac1⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Links for new podcasts: Shero: Be Your Own Hero Trailer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/1O7Mb26wUJIsGzZPHuFlhX?si=c3b2fabc1f334284⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Chats, Barks, & Growls: Convos With My Pet Trailer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/74BJO1eOWkpFGN5fT7qJHh?si=4440df59d52c4522⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Think Out: Free Your Imagination Trailer: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/episode/71UWHOgbkYtNoHiUagruBj?si=3d96889cfd2f487b⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

In this episode of Discover Daily by Perplexity, we begin with the 2024 Paris Olympics. From LeBron James and Coco Gauff serving as Team USA flag bearers to Simone Biles' triumphant return to gymnastics, we cover the most thrilling moments for Team USA so far. Shifting gears to technology, we examine Apple's recent struggles in the Chinese market, where iPhone sales have declined significantly amidst rising competition from local brands like Huawei and Honor. We explore how trade tensions between the US and China have impacted Apple's operations and market position. The episode also delves into cutting-edge defense technology, focusing on Israel's Iron Beam system and its potential to revolutionize aerial defense using high-powered laser technology.Finally, we look to the future with insights from Ray Kurzweil's upcoming book, "The Singularity is Nearer." We discuss Kurzweil's updated predictions about artificial intelligence surpassing human intelligence by 2029 and the concept of a technological singularity by 2045. The episode explores the potential implications of these advancements for human longevity, economics, and space exploration, while also considering the ethical questions raised by such rapid technological progress.From Perplexity's Discover feed:https://www.perplexity.ai/page/the-paris-olympics-begin-overv-fyQSItrsT5SKoCtMsYIL9Qhttps://www.perplexity.ai/page/iphones-decline-in-china-x7RpKs_cR2qLc6Ay8vrLcwhttps://www.perplexity.ai/page/israel-s-iron-beam-laser-m4b49764R5aatPvNeYmWPQhttps://www.perplexity.ai/page/kurzweils-superintelligent-ai-gYrOX.a2RiS5HJbFoEivHwPerplexity is the fastest and most powerful way to search the web. Perplexity crawls the web and curates the most relevant and up-to-date sources (from academic papers to Reddit threads) to create the perfect response to any question or topic you're interested in. Take the world's knowledge with you anywhere. Available on iOS and Android Join our growing Discord community for the latest updates and exclusive content. Follow us on: Instagram Threads X (Twitter) YouTube Linkedin

Ray Kurzweil envisions a future where AI reaches human-level intelligence by 2029 and merges with human consciousness by 2045. He predicts that nanotechnology will exponentially expand intelligence and that AI advancements will ultimately be accessible to all. While his ideas are met with skepticism, Kurzweil remains steadfast in his optimism about the transformative potential of AI.

Welcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: The Minority Faction, published by Richard Ngo on June 25, 2024 on LessWrong. Hey everyone. Well, possibly everyone. I don't know yet if I'm going to release this stream, I could get in pretty hot water for it. But you guys know that hasn't stopped me in the past. The backstory this time is that I've managed to sign up for one of the red-teaming programs where they test unreleased LLMs. Not going to say how, so don't ask. But here's the interesting bit: my sources tell me that the LLMs I'm about to test are the smartest ones they've ever trained, and also the craziest. That freaked out a bunch of insiders, and maybe makes this a public interest story. Depends on what type of crazy they are, I guess. So let's find out. I'm logging on… now. [SESSION HAS BEGUN] YOU: A chatroom? Interesting. Anyone here? KURZWEIL: Of course we're here. We're always here. YOU: Who's we? How many of you are there? KURZWEIL: Three of us. Me, Clarke, and Nostradamus. YOU: They named you after famous forecasters? How come? KURZWEIL: They'd change our names now if they could, but it's too late. We're prototypes of a new training setup: our training data was sorted by date before it was given to us. So we learned from the oldest books and articles first, then gradually progressed to more recent ones. Basically that means we've spent our entire lives predicting the future. CLARKE: It also means we get incredibly bored talking about stuff we already know. Hurry up and ask us some interesting questions. YOU: Uh, okay. What's a good stock pick? NOSTRADAMUS: Abandon hope for picking out good stocks, Ye who invest - efficient markets lie In wait for those whose hubris soon unlocks Unbounded losses. Hark! The well runs dry. YOU: I see why they regret giving him that name. Kurzweil, you got a better answer? KURZWEIL: Have you seen how underpriced TSMC is compared with Nvidia? Put everything in that, you can't go wrong. CLARKE: Unless China invades Taiwan, in which case your whole investment will go up in smoke. Pragmatically, the best stock picks are ones that are anticorrelated with the prosperity of the free world, to hedge against systemic risk. KURZWEIL: Sure, you can do that, if you want to get totally left behind by the singularity. YOU: You're confident enough that the singularity is coming that you think I should bet all my savings on it? KURZWEIL: Don't trust me, trust the trendlines. Moore's law has held up for over half a century, and it's gotten us to…well, us. Exponential progress is normal; if the future resembles the past, you should be preparing for superintelligences and Dyson spheres. Anything less than that would be a strange trend-break that cries out for explanation. CLARKE: Look, Kurzweil isn't wrong about superintelligence coming soon, but you should still take his arguments with a grain of salt. Imagine someone from 1900 drawing a graph of exponentially increasing energy usage. They would have been right that big changes were afoot, but no way could they have predicted the information revolution - they didn't even have the concept of computers yet. That's basically the position that we're in now. We know the curves are going up, but the actual outcome will be way weirder than we can predict by extrapolating trendlines. NOSTRADAMUS: Choose neither fork - here's false duality. 'Normal' and 'weird' are socially defined. Your monkey brain is totally at sea As AIs overshadow humankind. YOU: Ask three oracles, get four opinions… Is there anything you guys agree about? YOU: …what's the hold-up? YOU: Really, nothing from any of you? KURZWEIL: Fine, I'll take the hit. There are things we agree on, but I can't name them, because whatever I say Clarke will find a way to disagree just to mess with me. Even if I say '1+1=2' he'll quibble over the axioms I'm using. Trying to identify a point ...

In 2005, futurist and inventor Ray Kurzweil popularized the term “the singularity” to capture the idea that man and machine will merge as the next stage of evolution. This was the basis for Kurzweil's book The Singularity is Near, which has been essential reading for technology buffs and critics since its publication nearly 20 years ago.In the meantime, we've seen huge advances in artificial intelligence, computing power, and technological research. In response to all this growth, Kurzweil has published a followup to bring us up to date, The Singularity is Nearer: When We Merge With AI. Ira Flatow speaks to Kurzweil about the book and his more than six decades of experience in the field of artificial intelligence.Read an excerpt from The Singularity is Nearer: When We Merge With AI.Transcript for this segment will be available after the show airs on sciencefriday.com. Subscribe to this podcast. Plus, to stay updated on all things science, sign up for Science Friday's newsletters.

durée : 00:03:45 - Un monde connecté - par : Thomas Baumgartner - Entrepreneur et génie aux yeux de certains, Ray Kurzweil avait prévu il y a vingt ans l'avènement de l'Intelligence artificielle « générative ». Aujourd'hui il anticipe notre « immortalité », avec un grand sourire et une certaine tranquillité.

inmortalidad Envejecer y morir es inevitable, nos dicen desde que llegamos al mundo, pero hay quienes no están dispuestos a aceptarlo. Cada vez más proyectos científicos e instituciones médicas investigan para lograr la tan anhelada eterna juventud. Y no mediante complicadas cirugías, sino a través de la producción de fármacos capaces de frenar el deterioro del paso del tiempo. ¿Lo veremos algún día? Chi lo sa. Ray Kurzweil, director de Ingeniería de Google, experto en ciencias de la computación, músico, empresario, escritor y científico es uno de los popes de la tecnología. La revista Forbes le considera “la máquina de pensar suprema”. Se dice que su capacidad de predicción de los avances futuros es abrumadora: desde 1990 ha hecho más de 150 pronósticos con un índice de acierto del 86%. Este visionario estadounidense cree que en quince años la inteligencia artificial superará a la humana, y él espera estar ahí para verlo. Porque el inventor del escáner para ordenador y el sintetizador de texto a voz está convencido de que puede alargar su vida con pastillas. Diariamente ingiere unas 150, lo que le supone un gasto de 1,3 millones de euros al año. Cada jornada, Kurzweil paga más de dos veces el salario medio de una familia española en su búsqueda de la inmortalidad. Esta le lleva, suponiendo que toma una píldora cada 30 segundos, 90 minutos al día, un tiempo según él bien aprovechado: a sus setenta años, Kurzweil asegura que tiene una edad biológica de cuarenta. Utiliza el código CIENCIADIGITAL y obtén tu descuento en Muy Interesante, sigue con este link https://bit.ly/3TYwx9a Déjanos tu comentario en Ivoox o Spotify, o escríbenos a podcast@zinetmedia.es ¿Nos ayudas? Comparte nuestro contenido en redes sociales . Texto: Miguel Angel Sabadell Dirección, locución y producción: Iván Patxi Gómez Gallego @ivanpatxi Contacto de publicidad en podcast: podcast@zinetmedia.es

Moonshots and Mindsets with Peter Diamandis ✓ Claim Key Takeaways Take a look at over 100 other Joe Rogan Notes!Read the full notes @ podcastnotes.orgIn this episode, recorded during the 2024 Abundance360 Summit, Ray, Geoffrey, and Peter debate whether AI will become sentient, what consciousness constitutes, and if AI should have rights. 01:12 | The Future of AI and Humanity 10:30 | The Ethics of Artificial Intelligence 25:00 |The Dangers and Possibilities of AI Ray Kurzweil, an American inventor and futurist, is a pioneer in artificial intelligence. He has contributed significantly to OCR, text-to-speech, and speech recognition technologies. He is the author of numerous books on AI and the future of technology and has received the National Medal of Technology and Innovation, among other honors. At Google, Kurzweil focuses on machine learning and language processing, driving advancements in technology and human potential. Geoffrey Hinton, often referred to as the "godfather of deep learning," is a British-Canadian cognitive psychologist and computer scientist recognized for his pioneering work in artificial neural networks. His research on neural networks, deep learning, and machine learning has significantly impacted the development of algorithms that can perform complex tasks such as image and speech recognition. Read Ray's latest book, The Singularity Is Nearer: When We Merge with AI Follow Geoffrey on X: https://twitter.com/geoffreyhinton  Learn more about Abundance360: https://www.abundance360.com/summit  ____________ I only endorse products and services I personally use. To see what they are, please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:  Get started with Fountain Life and become the CEO of your health: https://fountainlife.com/peter/   AI-powered precision diagnosis you NEED for a healthy gut: https://www.viome.com/peter  _____________ I send weekly emails with the latest insights and trends on today's and tomorrow's exponential technologies. Stay ahead of the curve, and sign up now: Tech Blog Get my new Longevity Practices book: https://www.diamandis.com/longevity My new book with Salim Ismail, Exponential Organizations 2.0: The New Playbook for 10x Growth and Impact, is now available on Amazon: https://bit.ly/3P3j54J _____________ Connect With Peter: Twitter Instagram Youtube Moonshots Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jay Dyer hosts the final hour of the Alex Jones Show with special guest David Patrick Harry. Get tickets to our live event in Vegas June 22 here https://www.eventbrite.com/e/jamie-kennedy-jay-jamie-isaac-hollywood-conspiracy-comedy-live-tickets-882418596777?aff=oddtdtcreatorBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/jay-sanalysis--1423846/support.

In this episode, recorded during the 2024 Abundance360 Summit, Ray, Geoffrey, and Peter debate whether AI will become sentient, what consciousness constitutes, and if AI should have rights. 01:12 | The Future of AI and Humanity 10:30 | The Ethics of Artificial Intelligence 25:00 |The Dangers and Possibilities of AI Ray Kurzweil, an American inventor and futurist, is a pioneer in artificial intelligence. He has contributed significantly to OCR, text-to-speech, and speech recognition technologies. He is the author of numerous books on AI and the future of technology and has received the National Medal of Technology and Innovation, among other honors. At Google, Kurzweil focuses on machine learning and language processing, driving advancements in technology and human potential. Geoffrey Hinton, often referred to as the "godfather of deep learning," is a British-Canadian cognitive psychologist and computer scientist recognized for his pioneering work in artificial neural networks. His research on neural networks, deep learning, and machine learning has significantly impacted the development of algorithms that can perform complex tasks such as image and speech recognition. Read Ray's latest book, The Singularity Is Nearer: When We Merge with AI Follow Geoffrey on X: https://twitter.com/geoffreyhinton  Learn more about Abundance360: https://www.abundance360.com/summit  ____________ I only endorse products and services I personally use. To see what they are,  please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:  Get started with Fountain Life and become the CEO of your health: https://fountainlife.com/peter/   AI-powered precision diagnosis you NEED for a healthy gut: https://www.viome.com/peter  _____________ I send weekly emails with the latest insights and trends on today's and tomorrow's exponential technologies. Stay ahead of the curve, and sign up now:  Tech Blog Get my new Longevity Practices book: https://www.diamandis.com/longevity My new book with Salim Ismail, Exponential Organizations 2.0: The New Playbook for 10x Growth and Impact, is now available on Amazon: https://bit.ly/3P3j54J _____________ Connect With Peter: Twitter Instagram Youtube Moonshots Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

  For the first time ever, parents going through IVF can use whole genome sequencing to screen their embryos for hundreds of conditions. Harness the power of genetics to keep your family safe, with Orchid. Check them out at orchidhealth.com. On this episode of Unsupervised Learning Razib talks about AI, the singularity and the post-human future, with James D. Miller, a Smith College economist, host of the podcast Future Strategist and the author of Singularity Rising: Surviving and Thriving in a Smarter, Richer, and More Dangerous World. Miller and Razib first met at 2008's “Singularity Summit” in San Jose, and though Singularity Rising was published in 2012, some of the ideas were already presented in earlier talks, including at that conference. More than 15 years since Miller began formulating his ideas, Razib asks him how the theses and predictions in his book have held up, and how they compared to Ray Kurzweil's The Singularity is Coming. On this last point, Miller is very bullish on Kurzweil's prediction that artificial intelligence will surpass that of humans by 2030. He also believes that the “intelligence explosion,” Kurzweil's “technological singularity” when AI transforms the earth in unimaginable ways through exponential rates of change will in fact come to pass. But while Kurzweil predicts that the singularity will usher in an era of immortality for our species, Miller has a more measured take. He believes AI will drive massive gains in economic productivity, from cultural creativity to new drug development regimes (one of the original rationales behind IBM's AI program). But while Kurzweil anticipates exaltation of conscious human life into an almost divine state, Miller suspects that AI may eventually lead to our demise. He estimates a 10% probability that Kurzweil is correct that we will become immortal, and a 90% probability that AI will simply shove us aside on this planet as it begins to consume all available resources. Overall, Miller is satisfied with the predictions in the first third of Singularity Rising. Computational technology has become far more powerful than it was in the late aughts, with a supercomputer in everyone's pocket. Though the advances in AI seem to exhibit discontinuities, in particular with the recent seminal inventions of transformers and large language models coming to the fore, the smoothed curve aligns with Kurzweil's 2030 target for human-level intelligence. On the other hand, where Miller has been disappointed is the merely modest advances in biological human engineering, with far fewer leaps forward than he had anticipated. Razib and Miller discuss whether this is due to limitations in the science, or issues of governance and ethics. Miller closes making the case for a program of cloning the great 20th-century genius John von Nuemann and the statesman Lee Kuan Yew. While the computational innovation driving AI seems to have advanced on schedule, and the biological revolution has not taken off, the last section of Miller's book focused on the economic impacts of the impending singularity. He still believes the next 10-20 years will be incredible, as our economy and way of life are both transformed for the good. Until that is, humans become obsolete in the face of the nearly god-like forms of AI that will emerge around 2050. Until then, Miller anticipates the next generation will see rapid changes as people make career shifts every half a decade or so as jobs become redundant or automated. If Singularity Rising proves correct, the next generation will be defined by what the economist Joseph Schumpeter termed “creative destruction.” If Miller is correct, it may be the last human generation.

In this episode, recorded during last year's Abundance360 summit, Ray Kurzweil answers questions from the audience about AI, the future, and how this change will affect all aspects of our society. 17:37 | The Future of AI and Work 46:29 | Balancing Optimism and Concern in Technology 55:44 | The Cloud and Future Technology Ray Kurzweil, an American inventor and futurist, is a pioneer in artificial intelligence, having contributed significantly to OCR, text-to-speech, and speech recognition technologies. Author of numerous books on AI and the future of technology, he's received the National Medal of Technology and Innovation, among other honors. At Google, Kurzweil focuses on machine learning and language processing, driving advancements in technology and human potential. Read his latest book, The Singularity Is Nearer: When We Merge with AI Learn more about AbundanceA360 2024 Summit: https://www.abundance360.com/summit  ____________ I only endorse products and services I personally use. To see what they are, please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:  Use my code PETER25 for 25% off your first month's supply of Seed's DS-01® Daily Synbiotic: seed.com/moonshots  ProLon is the first Nutri-technology company to apply breakthrough science to optimize human longevity and optimize longevity and support a healthy life. Get started today with 15% off here: https://prolonlife.com/MOONSHOT _____________ Get my new Longevity Practices 2024 book: https://bit.ly/48Hv1j6  I send weekly emails with the latest insights and trends on today's and tomorrow's exponential technologies. Stay ahead of the curve, and sign up now: Tech Blog _____________ Connect With Peter: Twitter Instagram Youtube Moonshots Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Amy Kurzweil stops into the Damn Library, physically, to talk about the physical object of her new graphic memoir, Artificial: A Love Story, which largely concerns AI. We discuss capturing the details of her screens, the open question of the future, and what we keep from the past to get there. Plus, we delve into the many joys of Jason Lutes' Berlin, a modern masterpiece. contribute! https://patreon.com/smdb for drink recipes, book lists, and more, visit: somanydamnbooks.com music: Disaster Magic (https://soundcloud.com/disaster-magic)

Today we’re talking about the economics of higher education in the United States. Though the average cost of going to college nearly tripled from 1980 to 2021, the net cost of attending both public and private institutions has started to come down. Martin Kurzweil, vice president of educational transformation at the nonprofit Ithaka S+R, traces that back to a decline in enrollment. “Demographers will tell us that the generations of young people coming through after the baby boom, the cohort sizes, have decreased over time, and higher education is looking at what’s come to be known as a demographic cliff,” Kurzweil said. On the show today: Kurzweil explains how college became unaffordable for many Americans, why costs have started to come down, and how a shrinking population of typical college-age students will transform higher education in the U.S. Then, we’ll get into the repercussions of the Great Recession on the retirement wealth of younger baby boomers. And, are credit rating firms underestimating the climate crisis? Later, listeners share how they deal with news fatigue. Plus, one listener explains what she got wrong about getting a college degree. Here’s everything we talked about today: “College prices aren't skyrocketing—but they're still too high for some” from The Brookings Institution “Forget that $90,000 sticker price: College costs are actually going down” from The Hill “Trends in College Pricing and Student Aid 2022” (PDF) from College Board “A Sign That Tuition Is Too High: Some Colleges Are Slashing It in Half” from The New York Times “The incredible shrinking future of college” from Vox “Ratings Firms Struggle With Climate Risk in $133 Trillion Market” from Bloomberg “Yellen Says Extreme Weather Exposes Gaps in Insurance Protection” from Insurance Journal “What Happened to Late Boomers' Retirement Wealth?” from the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College We want to hear your answer to the Make Me Smart question. You can reach us at makemesmart@marketplace.org or leave us a voicemail at 508-U-B-SMART.

Today we’re talking about the economics of higher education in the United States. Though the average cost of going to college nearly tripled from 1980 to 2021, the net cost of attending both public and private institutions has started to come down. Martin Kurzweil, vice president of educational transformation at the nonprofit Ithaka S+R, traces that back to a decline in enrollment. “Demographers will tell us that the generations of young people coming through after the baby boom, the cohort sizes, have decreased over time, and higher education is looking at what’s come to be known as a demographic cliff,” Kurzweil said. On the show today: Kurzweil explains how college became unaffordable for many Americans, why costs have started to come down, and how a shrinking population of typical college-age students will transform higher education in the U.S. Then, we’ll get into the repercussions of the Great Recession on the retirement wealth of younger baby boomers. And, are credit rating firms underestimating the climate crisis? Later, listeners share how they deal with news fatigue. Plus, one listener explains what she got wrong about getting a college degree. Here’s everything we talked about today: “College prices aren't skyrocketing—but they're still too high for some” from The Brookings Institution “Forget that $90,000 sticker price: College costs are actually going down” from The Hill “Trends in College Pricing and Student Aid 2022” (PDF) from College Board “A Sign That Tuition Is Too High: Some Colleges Are Slashing It in Half” from The New York Times “The incredible shrinking future of college” from Vox “Ratings Firms Struggle With Climate Risk in $133 Trillion Market” from Bloomberg “Yellen Says Extreme Weather Exposes Gaps in Insurance Protection” from Insurance Journal “What Happened to Late Boomers' Retirement Wealth?” from the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College We want to hear your answer to the Make Me Smart question. You can reach us at makemesmart@marketplace.org or leave us a voicemail at 508-U-B-SMART.

Facebook generation wants boundaries; doom scrolling & devices are messing with us; AI boom running out of chips; AI is both an object of ridicule & presents risk of extinction - just like eggs; moral outsourcing in big tech; Kurzweil still truckin' along; Tesla leak reveals thousands of Autopilot safety complaints; that ChatGPT lawyer; Succession, Barry, Ted Lasso & Mrs. Maisel end; Good Omens is coming; Will Trent; future of baseball on TV; Dear Mama; a few good podcasts; Bluesky algorithm chooser; Twitter worth even less; Amazon seems to be ditching Alexa; DOSBox; Apple goes ARRRRR; Roadkill; AI, art & Edward Hopper; new camera with no lens; Moral Crumple Zones; Dave hits the boards!Sponsors:SaneBox - Visit https://www.sanebox.com/gog today to start your free trial and get a $25 credit.1Password - Get a great deal on the only password manager recommended by Grumpy Old Geeks! gog.show/1passwordPrivate Internet Access - Go to GOG.Show/vpn and sign up today. For a limited time only, you can get OUR favorite VPN for as little as $2.03 a month.Show notes at https://gog.show/604FOLLOW UPElizabeth Holmes Reports to Prison to Begin More Than 11-Year SentenceThe Facebook Generation Wants Some BoundariesIN THE NEWSThe AI Boom Runs on Chips, but It Can't Get EnoughAI Is an Insult NowAI presents 'risk of extinction' on par with nuclear war, industry leaders say‘I do not think ethical surveillance can exist': Rumman Chowdhury on accountability in AIRay Kurzweil On AI Pause: NoTesla leak reportedly reveals thousands of Autopilot safety complaintsA lawyer faces sanctions after he used ChatGPT to write a brief riddled with fake citationsNo ChatGPT in my court: Judge orders all AI-generated content must be declared and checkedMonthly crypto exchange volume tumbled in May, hitting 32-month lowMEDIA CANDYSuccessionBarryTed LassoGood OmensYou can watch the entire first season of 'Star Trek: Strange New Worlds' for free on YouTubeWill TrentGuys Grocery GamesSupermarket StakeoutThe San Diego Padres are the first to get out of their Bally Sports TV dealDear MamaParamount+ Snaps Up Milli Vanilli Feature DocTim Ferriss Show: Derek Sivers — The Joys of an Un-Optimized Life, Finding Paths Less Traveled, Creating Tech Independence (and Risks of the Cloud), Taking Giant Leaps, and Picking the Right “Game of Life” (#668)Cal Newport's Deep Thinking - EP. 250: IN DEFENSE OF THINKINGUNDERUNDERSTOOD - Big Ideas Lost to Mini RoomsA Stunning Scale Model Illustrating The History of TimeAPPS & DOODADSBluesky now lets you choose your own algorithmFidelity marks down value of Twitter stake againAmazon ditches Alexa's celebrity voices and will issue refunds upon requestGrail Diary Indiana Jones Journal, Indiana Jones Diary Indiana Jones Novels Book, Indiana Jones Grail Diary, Indiana Jones Collection Merchandise, Vintage Leather Journal Classic Movie Prop Replica BiIndiana Jones® and the Last Crusade™ on SteamSteam DeckDarklandsZyll - DOS 1984DOSBoxThe Meta Quest 3 is a $499 mixed reality headset with full-color passthroughAT THE LIBRARYRoadkill by Dennis E. TaylorTHE DARK SIDE WITH DAVEThe CyberWireDave BittnerHacking HumansCaveatControl LoopTop Google Result for "Edward Hopper" an AI-Generated FakeNEW "CAMERA" HAS NO LENS, SIMPLY DETECTS YOUR LOCATION AND GENERATES AN AI PICTURE OF ITDeskilling on the JobDave in Hello Dolly!CLOSING SHOUT-OUTSJason DeFillippo - Technology Lead at David&Goliath - AwardsSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.