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19 episodes with andrew here
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2 episodes with andrew here
2 episodes with andrew here
2 episodes with andrew here
2 episodes with andrew here
3 episodes with andrew here
Welcome to another episode of the Private Equity Podcast. Today, I'm joined by Andrew Towne, Partner at Olympus Pines. We break down what it really takes to grow a portfolio company—hiring the right team, aligning goals, building execution plans, and pulling the right levers for revenue and EBITDA growth. If you're after a practical playbook on scaling businesses in the lower mid-market, this episode delivers.[00:00] Andrew Towne returns to discuss how to grow portfolio companies through team building, planning, and execution.[00:28] Success in business = aligned goals, right people in the right seats, clear plans, and proper tools/incentives.[01:55] Biggest failures come from misaligned goals. Everyone must row in the same direction.[02:26] Use role charters and RACI charts to align responsibilities and decision-making across the org.[04:22] Attracting top talent means clarity on role, expectations, comp, benefits, culture. Be transparent up front.[07:06] Retention comes down to delivering on promises, offering development, paying fairly, and giving feedback.[09:37] Managers should seek upward feedback – your team's opinion matters more than your boss's.[11:32] Evaluate talent by hard skills (resume, technical test) and soft skills (learning ability, judgment, self-starting).[14:53] Roadmaps keep execution on track – break down goals into sub-goals and timed milestones across the team.[17:38] Regular team accountability meetings ensure goals stay on track and interdependencies are met.[18:43] Training, tools, and incentives must align to role and company success – weight comp more to team wins.[20:39] You don't need fancy systems – role clarity and RACI charts can live in Word and Excel.[22:07] Deal sourcing: pick a sector, build your own target list, run a disciplined, high-integrity outreach campaign.[24:57] Be transparent with sellers – don't hide your intentions. Build trust from the first call.[26:16] Consider: can you build instead of buy? Sometimes starting from scratch is the better play.[27:37] Avoid shiny object syndrome – write down what matters to you first, then find sectors that match it.[30:37] Six top-line levers: optimize product mix, segment customers, fix pricing, retain the right customers, improve collections, manage working capital.[35:33] Hire execs aligned with the thesis – if transformation is needed, bring in people who've done it before.[38:56] Cost isn't just headcount – optimize procurement, renegotiate vendors, rethink distribution, and energy use.[41:58] Retooling and reskilling can outperform layoffs – invest in your people and slow unnecessary hiring.[42:56] Thanks to Andrew for sharing his portfolio playbook and growth strategies.[43:24] Subscribe for more episodes every week. Till next time – keep smashing it.Connect with Andrew Here.Subscribe for more episodes on iTunes & SpotifyGot feedback or questions? Email Alex at alex.rawlings@raw-selection.com. Until next time—keep smashing it!
*Special Replay* My guest today, Andrew Giancola, started from nothing. He had no idea how to manage his money. He was scared to ask for a raise and felt clueless about investing. Then he made a decision that changed his life. He decided to take control. Fast forward to today. At 34 years old, Andrew achieved a personal net worth of $1.5 million. And he's on a mission to teach others how they can create generational wealth starting at ground zero. In our conversation today, Andrew reveals that dealing with money is more mental than skill and the two money management options you have to choose from. Plus, Andrew shares his best advice for entrepreneurs who feel worried about ruining their kids by giving them money they didn't earn. He even shares exactly what to say to your boss if you want a raise in the next 6 months. If you're feeling discouraged about your financial situation right now and need some straight-forward, easy-to-implement money advice, this episode is for you. Connect with Andrew HERE. Are you a financial advisor? Join the exclusive email list for financial advisors HERE. Get access to Simple Teen Success HERE. Order your copy of the USA Today and Wall Street Journal bestselling book Good Money Revolution here: https://amzn.to/34hSonE Book Derrick to speak at your next event HERE. For daily tips to help you make and save money, follow us on Instagram @derricktkinney
Episode Notes To support this podcast you can follow me on Patreon where there is a bunch of video content and tabs avail! My guest this week is Andrew Collins. Andrew is back to talk about the newest Andrew Collins trio release “The Rule Of Three” As usual, the album is an incredible showcase of playing and songwriting and Andrew shares some stories and insight to go along with the release! Follow along with Andrew HERE where you can find his store, tour dates and social links! Songs featured on this episode are available at the link above! As Always a HUGE thank you to all of my sponsor's that make this podcast possible each week! Mandolin Cafe Acoustic Disc Peghead Nation promo code mandolinbeer Northfiled Mandolins Ellis Mandolins Pava Mandolins Tone Slabs Elderly Instruments String Joy Strings promo code mandolinbeer
My guest today, Andrew Giancola, started from nothing. He had no idea how to manage his money. He was scared to ask for a raise and felt clueless about investing. Then he made a decision that changed his life. He decided to take control. Fast forward to today. At 34 years old, Andrew achieved a personal net worth of $1.5 million. And he's on a mission to teach others how they can create generational wealth starting at ground zero. In our conversation today, Andrew reveals that dealing with money is more mental than skill and the two money management options you have to choose from. Plus, Andrew shares his best advice for entrepreneurs who feel worried about ruining their kids by giving them money they didn't earn. He even shares exactly what to say to your boss if you want a raise in the next 6 months. If you're feeling discouraged about your financial situation right now and need some straight-forward, easy-to-implement money advice, this episode is for you. Connect with Andrew HERE. Get access to Simple Teen Success HERE. Order your copy of the USA Today and Wall Street Journal bestselling book Good Money Revolution here: https://amzn.to/34hSonE Ready to take your business to the next level? Schedule a call with Derrick today here: www.GoodMoneyFramework.com/consulting For daily tips to help you make and save money, follow us on Instagram @derricktkinney
Chapters 0:00-Intro 1:20- I'm Playing No Games About ?.... 4:22- Keep Dame In PDX 18:00- If the Journey Stopped Today ? 26:10- Staying Content 33:00- What is Your Public Speaking Voice Vs Others 48:20- Motivating Yourself 56:10- Do Your Speeches Work on your Family LOL 01:09:15- Motivational Speaking is Easy ? 01:27:14- You Look Like Josh hart ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ Like Tyler Follow Him Here. https://theunderdogmentality.net https://linktr.ee/theunderdogmentality https://www.instagram.com/the_underdogmentality/ Follow T.U.M ____________________________________________________________ Follow and support our Pages ! Follow US on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.playnogamespod/ ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics
Chapters 0:00-Intro 1:20- I'm Playing No Games About ?.... 13:22- Lionel messi' Deal; Player Contracts 22:04- Keke Palmer: & Usher is Menace 37:54- Zion William Speak on Moriah Mills 44:17- What is Harm reduction ?! PDX Drug Habits ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________ Follow and support our Pages ! Follow US on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.playnogamespod/ ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics
Chapters 0:00-Intro 1:20- I'm Playing No Games About ?.... 20:07- The Match No more , What happened ?! No More PDX Dating Events Right Now. 29:50- Why Do Men struggle to Show up in Modern Day Dating41:24- Natural medicine vs Western medicine 53:30- Power of Somatic BreathWork01:05:58 - Is Clubbing Overrated ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ Like Aaron Follow him & Support ! https://linktr.ee/openingpresence https://www.instagram.com/aaronrobinson/?hl=en https://www.instagram.com/opening.presence/?hl=en _____________________________________________________________________________ Follow and support our Pages ! Follow US on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.playnogamespod/ ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics
Chapters 0:00-Intro 1:22- I'm Playing No Games About ?.... 15:08- Adam22 & Lena Da Plug. Would you let your Wife be with another Man 40:23- The Lost Submarine Titian. How do you grieve ?! 51:52- NBA Free Agency. Chris is where ?! ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ Follow and support our Pages ! Follow US on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.playnogamespod/ ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics
After Dark with Hosts Rob & Andrew – Here we go again, another “damn” leak by the government. It is just one “damn” leak after another, and all of the leaks are evidence involving the investigation of former President Donald Trump. You can't make this stuff up. From the moment word got out that Trump would possibly be indicted, and eventually was, the leaks started. And the leaks are always to the same usual suspects...
After Dark with Hosts Rob & Andrew – Here we go again, another “damn” leak by the government. It is just one “damn” leak after another, and all of the leaks are evidence involving the investigation of former President Donald Trump. You can't make this stuff up. From the moment word got out that Trump would possibly be indicted, and eventually was, the leaks started. And the leaks are always to the same usual suspects...
Chapters 0:00- Intro 2:18- I'm Playing No Games About ?.... 25:00- Netflix Won't let you share Passwords 35:20- Tyler James Targeted for being perceived as Gay 46:30- Derrick Jaxn's Ex Wife strikes back ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ Follow and support our Pages ! Follow US on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.playnogamespod/ ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics
Chapters 0:00- Intro 1:30- I'm Playing No Games About ?.... 26:01- Zion Williamson Situation/ Who's sexually Responsible 44:07- Krispy Creme Dumpster Doughnut 54:32- New York Smoke Crisis. ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ Follow and support our Pages ! Follow US on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.playnogamespod/ ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics#zionwilliamson #newyorkcity #krispykremedoughnuts #playnogamespodcast
Chapters 0:00- Intro 2:26- I'm Playing No Games About ?.... 12:25- NBA head Coach Dilemma 24:09- Meg Up , Pardi Feminist Tattoo Down, Soccer Up 43:06- Would you drop out of the wedding ? ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ Follow and support our Pages ! Follow US on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.playnogamespod/ ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics
Chapters 0:00- Intro 1:20- I'm Playing No Games About ?.... 23:00- Ja Morant. Are people Overreacting ?! 45:16- Did Bad Bunny Sold-out 01:02:20- Are we complaining about Gifts Now ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ Follow and support our Pages ! Follow US on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.playnogamespod/ ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics
Chapters 0:00- 100 Episodes Acknowledgement ?!15:57- Meet Andy Pham 18:26- What is ENJIN HAUS and Renegade motorsports28:29- Car & Culture43:28- To Service your Car or DIY 59:45- How do shops overprice people ?! 01:12:49- Bring Clothing to the Car Culture ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ Follow and support our Pages ! Follow US on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.playnogamespod/ ________________________________________________________________________ Like Andy Follow his brands Renegade Motorsports https://www.instagram.com/_renegademotorsports/ https://renegademotorsports.comEnjin haus https://www.instagram.com/enjinhaus/ _______________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics
Trigger Warning: Extensive discussion of suicideToday we talk with one of the most knowledgeable, compassionate psychology doctoral candidates (and professional writers) we've had the pleasure of meeting. Andrew schools us on what “stigma” actually means, helpful stats on depression and mental health, mental health literacy, and (warning) suicide. We're all mental health professionals here, but this episode will show you just how hard it (still) is to talk about these tough topics.Andrew Devendorf, M.A., is a PhD candidate in clinical psychology at the University of South Florida. He is also about to embark on his one-year clinical psychology internship/residency at the Seattle, Puget Sound Veteran's Affairs Healthcare System. Andrew studies depression, suicide, and mental health stigma toward these experiences. He is passionate about communicating science to increase mental health awareness and reduce stigma. His freelance work has appeared in outlet like the HuffPost, the Conversation, Psyche Magazine, and the APS Observer. You can follow him on Twitter at @AndrewDevendorf.Links from Andrew:Here's a link to my brother's Tumblr page with some of his comics:https://mathew-comics.tumblr.com/page/5 Here's a link to a water carafe he designed for CB2 during his Master's Program at SAIC, which is still being sold:https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/shop/product/saic-watering-carafe-154108Here's a video in memory of him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dZR04W41SU&ab_channel=AndrewDevendorfMy personal website: https://sites.google.com/view/andrewdevendorf Welcome to The Psychologists Podcast, where we talk about all things psychology through a very personal lens. Gill Strait PhD and Julia Strait PhD are both Licensed Psychologists (TX) and Licensed Specialists in School Psychology (LSSPs, TX). They are alumni of The University of South Carolina School Psychology Doctoral Program (Go Gamecocks). Gill is a teacher, researcher, and supervisor at a university graduate psychology training program. Julia is owner and therapist at Ocean Therapy in Houston, TX, offering telehealth therapy to young adults in their 20s and 30s who are struggling with anxiety. Check it out here: https://www.oceantherapy.net/
Chapters 0:00- Intro 1:29- I'm Playing No Games About ?.... 11:10- Current State of MMA 18:16- Self Defense or Sport. Philosophy Matters 27:21- Women in Martial Arts 39:38- gender roles even in Firefighting ?! 49:20- Break Gender Roles/ Norms 01:11:30- Marriage Life ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ Follow and support our guest Katie Howard & Cierra She Doesn't Have Social Media but follow where she trainshttps://girlsgympdx.com/index.html Sign Up for a Class ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Follow us on our IG page : lookhere.fri We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics #martialarts #marriage #genderroles #playnogamespodcast
Chapters 0:00- Intro 1:40 - PNG About + Shenanigans 15:50- Phil Knight Donates to black N & NE pdx 36:00- Washington Ban Assault Weapons 49:45- Mens & Women's Values are.......??? 59:46 - How DO you Flex ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ Subscribe !!!!! ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Follow us on our IG page : lookhere.fri We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics
Chapters 0:00- Intro 1:29- PNG About 9:41- Met Dj_Solo 12:46- Bring African Communities Together 21:30- Cultural Ambassador with Music. 28:54- African vs African American Beef ?! 43:03- Djing Internationally 47:45- Wizkid did what ?! 55:00 - Catching Sunsets 01:01:30 - Leave America 01:15:40- Passport Bros Unite ?! ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ Follow and support our guest IG: djsolo_pdx Follow For Updates here https://linktr.ee/djsolo_pdx ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Follow us on our IG page : lookhere.fri We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics
Chapters 0:00- Intro 1:31- PNG About ( Moving out , Are you Passionate or Not ) 13:27- Angel Reese College Women's Championship Game 33:41- Israel Adesanya Fight Breakdown 44:55- Dalai lama is Wildin. Can We believe in religious leaders 1:00:01- Green Ring Experiment1:12:12 - Left On Read * Fan Responses ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Follow us on our IG page : lookhere.fri We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics
Chapters 0:00- Intro 2:30- What are you Playing no Games About 19:01- Are FairyTale Ending Closing Our Judgement ? _______________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Follow us on our IG page : lookhere.fri We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics#cinderella #disney #gladiator #playnogamespodcast
Chapters 0:00- Intro 1:26- PNG About (, AI, 4 day work Week, and Weather again ) 13:00- Who's Slim Guini & More 16:52- Starting your Passion 30:04- What song would you choose ? Has Rap Changed. 41:13 - Can you Separate the Artist from their craft. CB, Tory Lanez , Bill Cosby ?! 01:03:41 - Dreams & aspirations ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ Follow and support our guest IG: slimguiniFollow For Updates herehttps://linktr.ee/slimguini?fbclid=PAAabeDg7GW0-JhsJqCJz364tkXDMujgoxMD61HJ6sW3WiSFJd9js9o_iCUfg ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Follow us on our IG page : lookhere.fri We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics#djing #sza #playlist #playnogamespodcast
Chapters 0:00- Intro/ Meet our Guest Dj_hnst 1:26- PNG About ( Cars, More Sleep ) 8:00- Welcome to the DJing World 13:34- Humble Beginnings 24:05- Therapy Improves your Craft 30:26 - The Art of Spinning41:25 - Restrictions placed on DJ's ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ Follow and support our guest here : IG @dj_hnsthttps://www.mixcloud.com/DJ_HNST/nothing-like-the-rest-vol-2/ ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Follow us on our IG page : lookhere.fri We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics
Chapters 0:00- Intro 2:30- Play No Games About ? 17:40- NIL Deals 35:30- The First African Champ ?! Where are you from Does it Matter ?! UFC 49:16- Ciara's Dress Appropriate or fake outrage? 01:07:19 - Call into the show?! ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Follow us on our IG page : lookhere.fri We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics
Chapters 0:00- Intro/ Meet our Guest Stephanie Pozuelos 1:37- PNG About ( Creed 3, London 2024, Consistency, Openness) 10:09- Behind the chair with Therapist Stephanie 25:04- Therapeutic Alliance 39:14- What's your safe space 01:02:00 - Her Art Inspiration 01:19:35 - Who's Corny Part 2/ City Guy & Gal Culture ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ Follow and support our guest here : IG @ojomuchacha ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Follow us on our IG page : lookhere.fri We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics
Chapters 0:00- Intro 1:30 - PNG About ( PDX Snow Storm, Coaching, Bball return ) 11:14- Jake Paul Defeated / Beat on Jon Jones or naw 27:08- Olympic Progress 34:00- Who's Corny, Micheal B Jordan, Ayesha Curry, Or Men 01:06:12 - Left on Read ( * Answering Fan Questions) ________________________________________________________________________ Play No Games is a society and cultural podcast that is…. P.N.G delivers genuine thoughts, conversations, humor, relationship enlightenment and authentic introspection. They say "if you know better, you do better", yet we see that there needs to be motivation! Join Cas, Arthur, RJ, Andrew, and Cartier Bob as they give you their unfiltered, and unapologetic, ways to digest life so you can be ready to PLAY NO GAMES. ________________________________________________________________________ SUPPORT THE PLAY NO GAMES SHOW Donate Donate Here $herobob ________________________________________________________________________ Follow: Arthur @chefboyrdickson https://open.spotify.com/show/2NNGYTt... https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast... Follow us on our IG page : lookhere.fri We have Audio only on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5P0jSBq... Check US out on IG https://www.instagram.com/lookhere.fri/ Follow RJ & Andrew Here: https://linktr.ee/thebackseatcritics
In this rebroadcast - Rainmaker podcaster Andrew Olsen, CFRE interviews Mark P. Fisher of Inspiring Growth. According to Andrew - Here are 6 key points we hit in this discussion: 1. Mark's personal story of going 100+ miles per hour as a leader until he hit a wall...and it nearly killed him. He talks about how this experience helped him reset his priorities and focus, and create Inspiring Growth, his life's calling. 2. The importance of caring for yourself as a leader in order to allow you to truly serve those you lead. 3. The power of kindness, and how it helps you lead well. 4. The importance of resilient thinking, and how that allows you to pick up the pieces and move on after failure or setbacks. 5. As a leader, why you should strive to believe the best about people, and how that can radically change the culture in your organization. 6. How to use a post mortem or after action review to overcome failure and create learning that will move your organization forward in a healthy way, even when a major project or initiative doesn't turn out the way you'd hoped. ________________ Today's Inspiring Growth podcast is brought to you by the number one real estate company in America. Thanks Keller Williams & Sheila Tome. Here's how to reach Sheila Tome Cell: 443-907-2185 Website: https://sheilatomerealtor.com/ ________ The Simple Reason Why CEO's Trust Inspiring Growth. Results. FREE strategy session with Mark P. Fisher https://www.inspiringgrowth.biz/ ________________ JOIN THE INSPIRING GROWTH COMMUNITY SHOW YOUR LOVE: Become a monthly $$ supporter of the Inspiring Growth podcast: https://anchor.fm/inspiringgrowth/support. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/inspiringgrowth/message
Divorce, breakups, custody battles and how to navigate these situations. Ashley Wood is a divorce coach helping people navigate these unfortunate situations (Andrew and I can tell you from experience how terrible custody battles are.) Having someone like Ashley next to you as you step into a new and scary chapter of your life can make all the difference! You can find Ashley on Tiktok HEREConnect with Erika HEREConnect with Andrew HERE
In this unique episode - Rainmaker podcaster Andrew Olsen, CFRE interviews Mark P. Fisher of Inspiring Growth. According to Andrew - Here are 6 key points we hit in this discussion: 1. Mark's personal story of going 100+ miles per hour as a leader until he hit a wall...and it nearly killed him. He talks about how this experience helped him reset his priorities and focus, and create Inspiring Growth, his life's calling. 2. The importance of caring for yourself as a leader in order to allow you to truly serve those you lead. 3. The power of kindness, and how it helps you lead well. 4. The importance of resilient thinking, and how that allows you to pick up the pieces and move on after failure or setbacks. 5. As a leader, why you should strive to believe the best about people, and how that can radically change the culture in your organization. 6. How to use a post mortem or after action review to overcome failure and create learning that will move your organization forward in a healthy way, even when a major project or initiative doesn't turn out the way you'd hoped. ________________ Thinking of buying or selling a house? With mortgage rates at historic lows, now may be the best time for you to downsize or upgrade. When choosing a real estate agent, most of the time we ask a friend for a recommendation. If you live in Cecil, Kent or Harford Counties we at Inspiring Growth recommend Sheila Tome with Long & Foster Real Estate. Here are 3 Reasons Why. · Sheila knows her stuff. She gives you insights not found on Zillow. · Sheila loves people. Once you meet, you’ll feel her warm and caring vibe. · Sheila is a professional. You’ll be tapping into all the recourses of the nation’s #1 real estate firm Long & Foster – which BTW has a 97% customer satisfaction rating. Give Sheila a call at 443-907-2185 if you are thinking about buying or selling in Cecil, Kent or Harford Counties and mention Inspiring Growth when you call. ________________ The Simple Reason Why CEO's Trust Inspiring Growth. Results. Mark P. Fisher inspires growth with CEO’s by increasing revenues, organizational leadership, & overall joy. Mark is offering a 45-minute growth strategy session FREE oF CHARGE ($300 VALUE) go to www.InspiringGrowth.biz .biz, click on VIP Strategy Session. ________________ JOIN THE INSPIRING GROWTH COMMUNITY: SEND A MESSAGE: Send me a voice message: https://anchor.fm/inspiringgrowth/message SHOW YOUR LOVE: Become a monthly $$ supporter of the Inspiring Growth podcast: https://anchor.fm/inspiringgrowth/support. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/inspiringgrowth/message
Join us as we find out from Andrew Cummings how he went from 10 Downing street, advising the Prime Minister on Counter Terrorism to selling $19million properties in Dubai. Learn More about Andrew Here: https://www.instagram.com/dubailuxurybroker/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCErzTynybwrHwLp9LHzQnfw? www.luxuryproperty.com
This episode is a bit different than most, featuring a game designer who also supports Kickstarter campaigns through pre-marketing, consultation, landing page creations, and more! Andrew Lowen, with his company Next Level Web, has helped several games develop strong marketing strategies to get their games in front of people who would really like them (and in turn, back them). Games include The Isofarian Gaurd, Mint Control, Open Ocean, and DIE in the Dungeon! (yes, thats my game there). Learn some of his thoughts on how to market early on (and how EVERY post you make is actually a form of marketing), how to advertise, and thoughts on other aspects of game sharing. Want to reach out to Andrew? Here's a link to Next Level Web. Curious about his highest performing consultation? Here's a link to Isofarian Gaurd. Haven't seen DIE in the Dungeon yet? Check it out! To learn more about FunDaMental Games feel free to visit www.thefundamentalgames.com Introduction Music provided by: https://www.purple-planet.com Voice introduction by Marilena D.
The Hermit's Lamp Podcast - A place for witches, hermits, mystics, healers, and seekers
In this episode T. Susan Chang plays host to interview me about my new deck from Llewellyn – The Orisha Tarot. We talk about my 18 year journey with the Lukumi tradition that brought me to this point. This episode is a deep dive into the how and why of this deck an dthe role the spirits have played in its creation too. You can see the deck and get it from my website here, Amazon, or at your local bookshop. Think about how much you've enjoyed the podcast and how many episodes you listened to, and consider if it is time to support the Patreon You can do so here. And you should go see all the good stuff Susan is up to here. If you want more of this in your life you can subscribe by RSS , iTunes, Stitcher, or email. Thanks for joining the conversation. Please share the podcast to help us grow and change the world. Andrew You can book time with me through my site here. Transcription SUSIE: Hello, everybody! You're hearing a different voice as the host of this week's Hermit's Lamp podcast. I'm Susie Chang, friend of Andrew, and Andrew has kindly invited me to come on the show in order to interview him about his new deck, the Orisha Tarot, since he obviously could not interview himself! [laughs] Normally, at the beginning of an interview, what I would do is introduce the guest, but since the guest is the host, I guess I'll just do a very cursory introduction of what I know about my friend, Andrew. As you know, he is the proprietor of The Hermit's Lamp, the store, which is a touchstone for all of us in the tarot community, and he is the voice behind The Hermit's Lamp podcast. He is an artist in his own right and a creator of beautiful works, decks, and he is also a priest in the Lucumí tradition, and we'll be talking about that some more. But the reason that we're here today is to talk about the Orisha Tarot, which is coming out from Llewellyn in September … What day is it? ANDREW: Basically, today, according to Amazon. SUSIE: For real! Fantastic! Yeah, this is very exciting. So, I understand decks are already shipping out, and I was also particularly interesting -- interested -- in doing this podcast because we're both Llewellyn authors. I've got a book coming out from Llewellyn on tarot correspondences just next month. So, shout out to Llewellyn for supporting the work of tarot lovers everywhere. ANDREW: Absolutely. SUSIE: Yeah! So the Orisha Tarot is officially out. Congratulations! ANDREW: Thank you! SUSIE: It's been many years in the making, hasn't it? ANDREW: Yeah, I mean it's … It's always one of those things. Where do you count that from? You know? SUSIE: [laughs] ANDREW: I signed my contract for it about two years ago, maybe a little bit less than that. So that's probably as good a time as any. But even at that point I had already made a dozen cards and had spent five or six years prior to that thinking about it and trying to figure out what I wanted to do and how I wanted to do it. So. You know? SUSIE: Right. And actually, I'd like to back up even further, to the beginning of your story in this tradition. And to find out a little bit. Because it's been about ten years, I think you said? Something like that? ANDREW: Ten years as a priest. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: As of August. It was 2000 when I started getting involved in this tradition. So it's been about 18 years that I've been involved. SUSIE: Wow. So that's … Really, it's been a long journey for you. And I was listening to your wonderful interview with our friends at the Tarot Visions podcast, and I think you mentioned that you came into it through kind of a circle of friends who were exploring different esoteric traditions, and I kind of wanted to know a little bit more about what drew you. You mentioned that you were, you know, a friend had brought in his own explorations of Lucumí, and I wanted to, first of all, sort of talk a tiny bit about the context of Lucumí, since not everyone will be familiar with it, and also, a little bit more about your attraction to it. Now, as I understand it, Lucumí is a Cuban offshoot of the greater Yoruba African traditional religion, yeah? ANDREW: So, the story you get will depend a lot on who you talk to. Like many things. Right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: You know, so, at the time of the Atlantic slave trade, Yoruban wasn't really cohesive at all. That whole area was a bunch of city states and so on, right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: So, this idea that there was sort of one cohesive African traditional religion, or ATR, which these things spread from, isn't really historically accurate. You know? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: If you came from, you know, the city of Ife, then, you know, your tradition slants in one direction, certain deities are, you know, held above others; if you come from Oyo, then, you know, that's going to have a different set of traditions and sort of a different kind of more primary veneration and tilting towards certain deities over others. If you're down sort of in the coastal parts of kind of western Africa, towards the south end of that sort of prominence, the way in which some of the Orisha are going to manifest, especially the water Orisha, are different than if you're sort of further north, or inland, or in other places. You know, and so … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: It's important to understand that these sort of … All of these Orisha traditions and their diasporic manifestations, you know, as they found themselves in different countries, throughout the Caribbean and North and South America, they all varied depending on which groups of people were enslaved and brought over, which traditions survived, what happened in relationship to the indigenous culture that was present, you know, in Cuba indigenous culture was sort of pretty much wiped out, so there wasn't much inclusion of that into the traditions, whereas in other parts, you know, especially in South America, you know, some of those cultures continue to sort of live alongside and there's sort of more sharing of ideas. SUSIE: Yeah, it seems like in many of the diasporic manifestations, you see fates that have been heavily syncretized with whatever was going on locally. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think that, you know, the question of syncretization is always an interesting one, you know? SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: The story that some people like to say is that they were syncretized in order to conceal them and to prevent … SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And to protect them and to allow them to practice covertly, you know … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And I'm sure that that's true in some ways. But also, you know, there's a lot of … In nonwestern approaches to magic and to spirituality, there's often a real sense of "hey, what's that guy good for? What's that spirit …?" SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: "What's that one going to do for me?" Whereas this sort of very practical notion of, you know, you come across somebody and you're like, "well, I read about this guy, what's that saint good for?" SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And there's the syncretization that happens, for sure, but there's also the notion of like, having more spiritual people in your corner is not a bad idea at all. Right? SUSIE: Exactly, exactly. ANDREW: And so, so I think the history is interesting to try and unravel, but I think that we'll never really fully understand exactly what was going on with everybody involved. SUSIE: Exactly. And I think that, you know, people of faith kind of make faith work however they can, right? You know, it's sort of like you'll always have schools of thoughts that try to keep, you know, try to distinguish and separate and go towards a purist mentality in terms of practicing faith, and then there are others who'll say, well, we work with what we've got, you know? ANDREW: Exactly. SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: So, and so, to kind of answer your kind of like, about my lineage … My lineage, as far back as we know it, originates with this woman Monserrate, you know, she's the farthest back that we can trace that, and my lineage originates in Cuba and through those sort of Cuban traditions. So. Variations of the diasporic traditions, for sure. SUSIE: Right, right. So we're talking about … We're specifically talking about a tradition that came to Cuba through the slave trade. ANDREW: Exactly, yeah. SUSIE: And do … You actually have some reference to that in, I think, your Ten of Swords card. ANDREW: Absolutely. SUSIE: Which seems really appropriate, yeah. So, I wanted to know a little bit more about your personal journey, in terms of whether you yourself grew up in any kind of faith community, or whether you were … you know, did you have to rebel against one? did you long to belong to a faith community? What was that like for you and what was discovering this community like for you? ANDREW: So, I think that one of the best things that my parents did was not raise me with any traditions at all. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: My parents weren't particularly religious, you know ... SUSIE: So what did you rebel against? [laughs] ANDREW: I didn't rebel against any- I mean I rebelled against everything. But we'll get to that. But what that meant was, you know, when I said to my mom, I want to go to the psychic fair and find some books on magic, when I was 12, my mom was like, okay. You know, when I like, picked out Alistair Crowley, she was like, sure, go ahead. SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: So, that meant that I like had a lot of space to really get involved and think about other things, you know? SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: You know, other than sort of when my parents split up and we started going to Anglican church, mostly I think because my mom wanted some community … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: I didn't really have a lot of connection or experience with any kind of organized religion. But what happened was, when I was 14, I almost died in a car accident. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And after that I wanted to understand everything. And so, I didn't rebel against anything as such, but what I really wanted to know was, like, what does this all mean? Right? Like all of it. You know. At that point I'd already been reading tarot for a year … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: I'd already been studying Crowley for a couple of years. It was already really invested in sort of a magical world view. And at that point then I just started reading everything I could get my hands on, right? So I'm like in grade 9 and 10, and reading Nietzsche and … SUSIE: Sure. ANDREW: Picking out, you know, people who can talk about these things. The youth group at the church was run by an ex-Jesuit, and so I would like corner him and be like "hey, tell me about this, tell me about that, tell me about this," and for the most part, people would indulge me and have conversations with me about it, you know? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. Was there another organized religion that you were drawn to? Before Lucumí? ANDREW: No. I mean, Crowley's work. You know? SUSIE: Yes. ANDREW: For me it was basically all about Crowley's work. SUSIE: And you were in the OTO? ANDREW: Yeah. When I was in my ... It wasn't until much later though. It wasn't until I was, you know, well into my 20s that I actually even considered … I was like, oh, maybe the OTO exists here in Toronto. Maybe I could find people. Mostly I just practiced independently and pursued and tried to talk to people. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: Yeah. And then basically I left the OTO and the Armed Solace, which was another initiatory group, and moved into practicing Lucumí, you know? That was my journey. SUSIE: Yeah, yeah. And it's been, as you said, like an 18-year journey at this point. And, so that's something I wanted to sort of ask you about, in terms of doing the artwork, telling the stories, introducing the wider world to this tradition. You know, often when we are talking about faiths we didn't grow up in, you know, there's this question of whether it's your story to tell, or whether, you know, at what point do you become a representative? And so that's a question I have for you, at what point did you feel that you were invested enough or, you know, that you had a strong enough sense of belonging to be able to bring this to other people? ANDREW: Sure. So, there's a whole bunch of pieces to that answer. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. It's a complex one. [laughing] ANDREW: Yeah! We'll start with this. When you … When you become a priest, right? You become initiated into a lineage, right? So, you know, and when we talk about ancestors, the word we use most of the time is Egun. Right? We mean Egun to mean, ancestors by blood, and ancestors by initiation, right? SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And so, you know, my Egun are those priests of the Orishas, going back to Montserrate and beyond, you know, and they're lost to history beyond that. And so, part of the conversation for me is, this is my lineage, this is my, these are my ancestors at this point, right? And this is something that we take pretty seriously within the tradition, right? Initiation and lineage are really significant. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And so that's part of the thing. Part of it is, although my parents did not practice this tradition, I am initiated into this lineage in a traditional way. SUSIE: So, so there's a difference here between blood lineage and spiritual lineage. ANDREW: But the word does not differentiate. We don't differentiate, right? So, if you … We could … You could get a reading, and, your traditional reading, and your reading could come in a good way or a bad way, depending on what's going on with you, from the Egun, right? SUSIE: Right, right. ANDREW: And when we're divining, if it's possible, we want to mark who that is, and we would ask, ancestors from the lineage, and ancestors from the blood line, and depending on what the reading came out as, it would guide us. And we could narrow it down, and be like, "Oh, yeah, the ancestors are upset with you, and in this case it's someone from your blood family, or in some other case it's somebody from your initiatory lineage," but we don't differentiate, the word means the same, right? SUSIE: Yes, I seem to remember reading something this past week about the idea that your, your, they're sort of one set, one bloodline sort of over one shoulder and spiritual guidance over the other, but they sort of combine and you need both. And I guess, you know, speaking about the outlook and cosmology of the faith, would it fair to say that, you come into this religion, but the religion itself proceeds from the assumption that everybody, no matter where you come from, no matter who your parents, or grandparents etc. were, has a relationship, or a potential relationship they haven't yet realized, with the Orisha? ANDREW: I don't think that that's actually true. SUSIE: Okay. So that's what I'm trying to get to the bottom of here. ANDREW: Okay. Before we come to Earth, we choose our destiny. We choose our Ori, right? Ori is sort of, not easily translated into one thing, but if you think of it as sort of your guardian angel, your destiny, and your higher self, all as one entity, that's probably a reasonable set of points to make sense of it, for people who have those ideas already. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And when you choose your destiny, before you come to Earth, it's sealed, right? SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And so, we don't know what all it entails before we come, but if it's part of your destiny to get initiated into the Orisha tradition then opportunities will present themselves for that. It's not to say that you couldn't force them otherwise, but those wouldn't be in alignment with your destiny. And really, when we're talking about sort of initiation, and sort of connection, and those kinds of things, they really all ought to be dictated by either divination, or dictated by Orisha in possession of people, right? SUSIE: Yes. ANDREW: It's not really, you know. There are many people who will come, people will come and Orishas are like, "yeah, okay, we'll help you," right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: Or the people will come, and they'll be like, "no, you should go do something else," right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: Either direction, go over that way, go look at these people, you know, like go look at these other traditions. It's definitely not for … It's not meant for everybody, per se, and it's not closed in any, you know, in any particular way, although certain houses and certain, you know, lineages, might be more closed to outsiders than others, based on a whole bunch of different factors, but … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: It's much more so that, you know, if it's part of your destiny the opportunity will arise, if it's not, then, you know, you might run into it, but they might say, no, you're good, go to the other side. SUSIE: Right. Well, this is interesting to me because I've noticed that there seem to be a lot of people who are clearly didn't grow up within the culture who have become drawn to this religion or some form of it, some form of the faith, and, you know, taken it on. And, it seems as though there is, you know, a certain openness to those who commit themselves, whether or not they grew up or had family or, you know, understood the culture. Right? ANDREW: Yeah, I mean I think that, I think that there are opportunities definitely for people to engage and connect with these traditions. And there are definitely practitioners around who are, you know, open to people who didn't grow up in these traditions and so on, for sure, right. SUSIE: Right, right. ANDREW: That's definitely a thing, and you know, I mean that, I think one of the things I see that's going on is that, certain people seem like they're looking for tradition, right? They're looking for … They're kind of doing something that doesn't have a long living history, and they're kind of looking backwards for, or looking around for those things that do, you know? SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: I think that's part of why the Tarot de Marseilles is sort of resurfacing. SUSIE: Right, right. ANDREW: You know, it's, I think that it's why the Orisha traditions are shifting and coming forward more. You know? SUSIE: Right. That's one of the things that … I guess that's why I was asking you so much about your own background in terms of, you know, working independently versus belonging, right? Because I think that that's something that a lot of us struggle with, especially those of us who grew up, you know, in an era where religious community isn't something that one takes for granted. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. SUSIE: Yeah. So anyway, I think that we should probably turn a little bit to the work itself. ANDREW: Well, let me finish answering … Cause we started with this question of me and sort of, you know, doing this deck, right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: You know, sort of … And we kind of started talking about the ancestral piece and drifted away, and there are a couple of other things that I want to sort of … SUSIE: Okay, good. ANDREW: So I mean, one of the things, like I did a bunch of things around creating and starting this process, and getting permission before I started this process, and certainly one of them was sitting with my elders and talking about what I wanted to do, and, you know, getting advice from them. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And certainly part of it was asking the Orishas themselves, asking Elegua for, you know, his blessing to proceed with this project. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And also, you know, sort of sitting down with people and sort of showing my art with, you know, with different people and people of color and so on to kind of consult with my choices around representations and so on, so. SUSIE: Absolutely, absolutely. ANDREW: I really wanted to, you know, you can never please anybody, and I'm sure there'll be some people who'll be upset by the deck, and well, you know, that's life. Right? But … SUSIE: Right. But it sounds as though you have a lot of support. At least within the community you have access to for the work that you undertook. ANDREW: Exactly. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Cool. So I wanted to talk a little bit about making a tarot deck, approaching a tarot deck, coming out of the various traditions you come out of. So I know that you started out with Crowley and the Thoth deck -- or, I know you pronounce it "Toth," [laughing] and also that your primary commitment as a reader for quite a while has been the Marseilles deck. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. SUSIE: So, how … Why did it seem like a natural choice to you to translate or to represent what you know from Orisha as a tarot deck? You know, I think a lot of people would say, well, you know, since there isn't an obvious 78 card structure, you know, number of deities, all the sort of correspondences that tend to underlie at least the Golden Dawn-derived decks, or the general tradition of tarot reaching back to the 15th century, you know, why, why do a tarot deck and not something more free form like an oracle deck? ANDREW: Well, because, one of the reasons why I made this deck was because I wanted to create a bridge between the people who have traditional experience with the Orishas, and people who have experience with the traditional tarot structure. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And I wanted to use that … those two pieces as a way of creating a bridge so that people could sort of have more understanding of each other. And of what's going on, right? SUSIE: Yeah, yeah. ANDREW: And so, I really, you know, I mean, I've got nothing against oracle decks, I mean I released one earlier in the year. But, in trying to think about something as large and expansive as the Orisha traditions, it really … Having a clear structure, like the tarot structure, allowed me to frame and set the conversation in a way that allowed me to finish it [laughing] cause otherwise … SUSIE: [laughing] Right, it's ... otherwise, how do you know when it's done? [laughing] ANDREW: Yeah, right? I mean, we divine with, you know, upwards of 256 different signs. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: Each of those signs is as complicated or as a trump card, or as sophisticated as a trump card … SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: and then there's, you know, depending on who you ask, you know, a bunch of primary Orishas and maybe, you know, like even hundreds if you start getting into different paths and roads, it can expand infinitely in every direction, right? So. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. I'm curious in whether there's much crossover between the two communities, that you've noticed. I mean tarot, and Orisha. ANDREW: Sure, lots of people. I know lots of people who are initiated. You know, I mean, that sort of … syncretic piece, kind of "what can I do with this?", you know, that continues to be a problem with a lot of Orisha practitioners' lives, right? SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: It's more purely, just the Lucumí Orisha stuff. Many people practice some combination of, you know, Paulo Moyumbe, and espiritismo, and card reading, and, you know, other things, depending on who they are and what they feel is important and what they have access to. So there's not like … There's not a lot of hard rules … SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: About the Orisha tradition. Certainly not the tradition I practice. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: I mean, definitely don't mix them in one ceremony. SUSIE: But it's okay if you practice them separately. ANDREW: If you go to church on Sunday, and then you tend your ancestral Boveda, and then you have some Orisha, and you go between them, depending on what you feel and need, it depends on where you go, it's a really common experience for a lot of people. So. SUSIE: Yeah, yeah, I'm glad you addressed that, cause that's something I was really curious about. You know, you don't dilute your practice by sort of mixing a bit of everything. On the other hand, you're one person, and, you know, if you're drawn to different practices, then perhaps you're drawn to different practices for different needs. ANDREW: Sure. And if the Orisha don't want you doing that, they'll tell you! For sure. SUSIE: [laughing] Right. ANDREW: They'll be like, "stop it!" SUSIE: That's not cool. Yeah. ANDREW: Yeah. SUSIE: So, a little bit about what people can expect when they're approaching the cards. Now, it's not like there's a particular Orisha per card. There's Orisha in some representations of some cards, some cards have concepts from Lucumí, some cards have one of the Odu on them, so, sort of like, how did you approach how you wanted to impart all of this information structurally into the deck? ANDREW: Mm-hmm. So, I really, I wanted to try and avoid what I had seen done in other decks in the past. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: Not because it's wrong per se, but because it doesn't give the conversation enough meat. Right? You know a lot of decks would say, well, Shango is the king, and therefore, he's the emperor, and so when I draw the Emperor I'm going to draw Shango. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And that's fair, you know, I mean Shango is the emperor, he's the king of the Orishas. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: But, but there's a lot more to it than that. What does that mean? In what way does kingship or power in that way show up in a variety of different contexts, and what are the different conversations that we could have, right? SUSIE: Exactly. ANDREW: And so, when I was sort of working with the trump cards, I wanted to embody the ideas that I see being behind, you know, behind the cards themselves: spiritual authority, earthly authority, fortune and chance, you know, like different things. I wanted to sort of embody those bigger ideas and kind of avoid kind of just a straight, this symbol = this symbol here … SUSIE: Yeah, I call that the matchy match. [laughing] ANDREW: Right? Exactly. SUSIE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. ANDREW: When I was looking at the number cards, which for me often represent sort of more the what and the how of life, right? I wanted to kind of focus more on stories, and those things that tend to be more about particular patakis, or stories or ideas from the lives of the Orishas and the lives of their practitioners and where that kind of overlaps and integrates with those numbered cards. And then when I got to the court cards, I wanted to, I wanted to really kind of explore the way the court cards can be sort of seen to line up with roles people might play in the community. Right? SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: So, when we're looking at those, we see … One of them, the Aleyo, the new person who's just coming to this tradition, who's ready to learn, and they're making an offering to, you know, the butcher, who is a very skilled and important part of the ceremonies in the community, to the elders who run the ceremonies, and the singers and the drummers and the artists and all of those things, so I kind of went through and sifted those ideas into where I felt they aligned with the court cards best. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: So, the court cards then become really positions or roles one might find oneselves in, in religion, and over time, with the traditional idea of the court cards, over time we might [00:29:27]. Over time we might be, you know, we might play this role in this community and that role in another community. And so on. So. SUSIE: Right, right. And I think hat underscores what I think sometimes we forget about court cards, which is that we can be any of them, and we are any and all of them at different times. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. SUSIE: So, about that … A word you brought up just before, which I think is pretty important for us to discuss, the word Pataki, the story. So can you tell us a little bit about how that is contextualized within the faith and also, we should mention, that that is the name of the book that goes with the deck, Patakis of the Orisha Tarot. Yeah. ANDREW: So, patakis are the stories of the Orishas and their practitioners that are meant to be instructive, right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: The word parable, you know, is a way to maybe give a different word for it in English. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And, you know, especially when we're divining, right, we'll often give a proverb, and we'll often, you know, tell a story about the Orishas. And, this is part of this oral tradition of it, that we are expressing these ideas in ways that allow us to tell the person things, in ways that are easier to hold onto, easier to integrate, that give us some meat, rather than just saying, "hey, don't do this thing," which we might also say … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: We might also tell the story of when one of the Orishas did that thing and what happened to them. SUSIE: Yes. ANDREW: "Oh yeah yeah, okay I see that. I shouldn't do that thing, cause this is gonna happen," right? There'll be a problem. SUSIE: There's something about these stories that's so human and relatable, right? You know? I mean is it not the case that the Orisha themselves were at one time human or before they became more than human? ANDREW: Well, that's a … That's a contested … Somewhat contested point of view. Many Orisha are what's known as urumole. They came from heaven. Right? They originated purely from spirit. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: There are Orishas who are considered deified ancestors, Shango being one of them, you know, Oduduwa being another one. You know, there are these spirits, these people who led great lives and led their communities and so on, and became, you know, deified after their death. The question that comes up in those conversations, then, also is were those lives that Orisha descending and living on Earth for a period of time? SUSIE: Yes, right. Yeah. ANDREW: So, I mean, I think that it … I think that there's no clear answers to that. But in general, the majority of the Orishas did not start as human, but originated as part of the unfolding of creation, and then came to sort of live these lives and, you know, have these stories and experiences that we now understand. And also, when we're talking about some of these stories, I think that we also need to understand that some of them, and there's no easy historical way to say which ones are not, but a good chunk of them were probably stories about priests of those spirits. SUSIE: I see. ANDREW: Made these mistakes in their lives. It's like, "Oh yeah, you're Bill, the priest of Obatala who lived down the road …" SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: "Remember when you did this?" "Yeah, I remember," right? SUSIE: [laughing] Right, right. ANDREW: And those stories become, you know, part of the myth, right? Part of the lexicon of these traditions. SUSIE: Yes. I guess what makes me wonder, you know, what their relationship with mortality and humanity is, is because these stories, the emotions and the sort of currents that they represent are things that anyone can relate to. You know, there's jealousy, there's anger, there's, you know, there's infidelity, there's theft, there are things that you don't sort of in the same way that in the Greek mythology you see people, you see deities acting badly, right? Or in ways that show that they can make mistakes too. ANDREW: Definitely. One of my elders likes to say, you know, "They made those mistakes, you don't need to, okay?" SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: Right? But, you know. We're all human. We're gonna learn or we're not gonna learn. But we'll learn one way or another. Right? SUSIE: Right, right. So, a little bit more about deck structure. So, first of all, I noticed immediately that there were some sorts of ways in which your experience with tarot informed the deck. First of all, there's a little bit of a thought sensibility, in that your Strength and Justice are ordered in the way that the Thoth deck and the Marseilles deck do, rather than the Rider-Waite-Smith. I noticed that you have ordered it wands, cups, swords, disks, fire, water, air earth, which is a very hermetic thing. And the very fact that you call them disks also comes out of the Thoth tradition. But, I also wanted to know a little bit, for example, of ... I can sort of understand where the structure for the majors comes from, but what I wanted to know a little bit more is about the pips. Because your primary reading background comes from, as far as assigning meaning to the pips, I guess would be based in Thoth originally? I wondered if there was sort of more relationship …. Would someone who comes from a Rider-Waite-Smith tradition instantly recognize, or from a Golden Dawn tradition, instantly recognize the concepts in each of these minor cards? ANDREW: Well, I mean I think so. [laughing] SUSIE: [laughing] I can tell you that I certainly did. ANDREW: I mean, here's my hope about this deck. You know? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: I mean, so, obviously, I started with the Thoth deck, and I read with that deck for many years, exclusively. But I also read a ton of books on tarot, right, during that time. And had a lot of conversations, especially once I started branching out in the communities more, and you know, I mean, I've read lots of books on the Waite-Smith tradition, and, you know, all of that sort of and a bunch of that older stuff, you know? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: Hermetic or otherwise. So when I was, when I was creating this deck, there are … People who are reading the book, you'll come to some spots, you'll hit a few cards where it's like, you know, in the Marseilles tradition, people often think of this card this way, and I'll give a little bit of context, and then when you go and read it, it'll make a ton of sense. SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: And, that's really mostly because I could have, you know, I could have written ten times as much about these cards as I did. But Llewellyn said, you can only make the book [cross-laughter [00:37:02] SUSIE: Right, right. ANDREW: And, and I really endeavored to sort of kind of hold what I see as kind of the middle of the road on these meanings, right? I mean I didn't … the numbering is the numbering, and to me ultimately the numbering … I mean, this might be blasphemy from a hermetic point of view, but to me the numbering of the trump cards is really largely irrelevant. SUSIE: I think it's arbitrary, yeah. ANDREW: It's a historical precedent that's [inaudible at [00:37:30]. SUSIE: Although, although, Andrew, I think it's important that you made Elegua the Fool. I think, you know. ANDREW: For sure! SUSIE: Yeah. As the Orisha who comes first. ANDREW: For sure, yeah, yeah. But, but, you know, choosing Justice to be this number or that number, I'm like, eh. I almost never read the numbers when I read cards, because I just see the cards, right? SUSIE: Right, right. ANDREW: So, you know, this deck is really meant to be, you know, a kind of relatively even representation of tarot as it exists today, right? SUSIE: Yeah, yeah. ANDREW: And so, there's not … none of it's slanted too much one way or the another. There's no like "Well, you need to know that Crowley called this card the Aeon means, you know the goddess Nuit means this... SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: It's just not like that at all, right? SUSIE: Yeah, I mean, my sensation as I was getting to know the deck was really that it was about the stories, and which story fit which card best. ANDREW: Yeah. It's one of the things that I actually really … I wouldn't have guessed that I would have felt this was so important, but the feedback that I've gotten from the people who've gotten their books already, or gotten their copies already, who I shared advance copies with and stuff, is … including some non-tarot people who just are reading it because they really like me. SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: The feedback I keep getting is that the material is really accessible. And to me, that's like a really important thing. You know? I didn't want to make this difficult, I avoided using as much jargon, or like, you know, Lucumí words, as much as possible. I really, you know, I didn't get into hermetic philosophy particularly anywhere. You know there are all these branches and wings of my own personal experiences and practice, that I just brought them all down to the dining hall, I was like, "All right! Let's all have lunch to talk about stuff in a general way." SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: You know, it's hard to make that happen, so. SUSIE: Right. Well I think that, you know, I think it's really important for anyone coming to this deck to get to know the book, to read the book, really read the book, because it's, you know, it's 350 pages, it's real, it's got every single page not only has a story that's associated with the card, but also sort of breaks down the symbols that you included in the card, what its divinatory meaning might be, and sort of what the advice might be that goes with it. And I found that incredibly helpful in terms of, like, you know, if I came across a card where my own sort of tarot background wasn't making it immediately obvious to me what you were trying to do, I could just go to the book and it was really clear, you know, like within a minute. So, I think that it's … This is one of those things where … And I generally am not a person who believes that readers always have to go to the book, but I think it is really enriching and helpful to contextualize using what you wrote for this deck. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think unless somebody has a strong living practice with like, you know, with a traditional Orisha practice, yeah, it might be hard to start just by looking at it … SUSIE: Yeah, yeah. ANDREW: Most people who come from those traditions and read cards, as well, then maybe they don't need the book as much, you know. It's always interesting as I share the images on the, you know, on social media and stuff, I get, you know, priests jumping on the thing, and like, "how you choose to represent this here! it's perfect!" you know? SUSIE: [laughing] right. ANDREW: They just get it, right? Because they have both of those pieces. But it's so nice to see people be moved to see themselves and to see the tradition in this way, which is really gratifying. SUSIE: Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm. Before we move off structure and start talking a little bit more about the art and the specific cards, is there a sort of through line in each suit that we should be looking for? Something that's going on in wands only, something that's going on in cups or swords or disks? ANDREW: That was … That was a notion that I abandoned along the way. You know, in making a deck there always comes this point where the reality check steps in, and you're like, this is the limit of what I can do, you know. SUSIE: Yeah, yeah. ANDREW: And the sort of the idea that there was sort of one through line for each set of suits, I didn't really, I couldn't really find it, and you know there are a couple other ideas about levels of detail and symbolic representations that I just realized I'd be spending another five years like hand-drawing beaded things all day… SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: I'm like, that can't happen. SUSIE: Right, and if … I mean there are certainly color and number correspondences you could have worked with but, by forcing it into you know, existing tarot structure or hermetic structure I think you would have been doing something that was not necessarily conducive to the most rich environment of reading these cards. ANDREW: Exactly. SUSIE: You know what I mean? Yeah, although, I'm looking at … I've sorted it out, separated my deck out, Ace, Cups Swords, sorry, Wands, Cups, Swords, I'm looking at the Aces, and there's definitely, I get at least just from my background, I get an elemental feeling off of those cards, you know, a fire, water, air, earth feeling, and even if that's not something that you intended to do or carried throughout the deck, there's still something there, I think. ANDREW: For sure. I mean, in making this deck it's definitely … A lot of stuff just emerged in the creative process. And although I spent a lot of time thinking and writing and making notes about what went where and why and so on, when I sat down to make the cards, a lot of stuff just emerged as part of that process, you know, from the news, from the creativity, by chance or whatever, my own conscious formulated it, so there's a lot of stuff in there that happened as I was making the cards, it wasn't necessarily fully thought out … SUSIE: But which is just part of you, as a reader and a practitioner. ANDREW: Yeah. I mean, you spend 32 years working with the tarot, right? SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: It's a lot of ideas in the back of the brain there that are trying to come out in one way or another. SUSIE: Right. So, let's talk a little bit about the way the cards look for those people who haven't been lucky enough to pick up their decks yet. It's a gorgeous production, first of all, I think you, you know … the artwork's just stunning, and Llewellyn did a great job, I think, as well. First of all it's a borderless deck, which, thank you! [laughing] That's … ANDREW: Llewellyn let me do something that they had never done before, which was: all of the titles are handwritten. SUSIE: Yeah! Yeah! ANDREW: [crosstalking [00:44:55] to the cards. They're not obscured, they're easy enough to see when you're looking … SUSIE: You can find them. ANDREW: [crosstalking] Off of the bottom. They fit in more with the artwork, so it's easier to kind of just look at the artwork, or just look for the title when you need to. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: That was something that we had a bunch of conversations with … SUSIE: I think it was a brilliant choice. Because, you know, it really foregrounds the story of the art. The art fills the frame, you know, everything about it allows you to immerse yourself in what's going on in that picture, and then secondarily you, you know, check out whatever title it was so you can sort of match it up with your own tarot knowledge. But I really appreciated that and I'm really glad that they made that decision and you, you know, suggested it. And also, the colors are so saturated and so bold. So the texture and look that you were going for was based on Gwash, right? ANDREW: Well, so, actually, what I was … So, I used to paint in Gwash a lot, before I had kids. But, you know, having kids, and having a space to set up art, you know, a small, urban space, isn't really that easy, right? SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: So certainly, that's a piece of my sensibility and my aesthetic, but part of what I was really looking for was, you know, starting, it's hard to date now, but starting quite a while ago, I went from being super structured and really trying to sort of make everything perfect, to really kind of moving to a more gestural and looser way of working. And so, you know, this kind of comes out of that, you know, sort of move away from you know, sort of pursuing absolute realism to pursuing something else. And then, the other piece of the aesthetic is, you know, I wanted to include different pieces of symbolism, but I didn't want to make it look like the Thoth deck where there are so many symbols that you don't really know what to look at sometimes. SUSIE: Yes, yes. ANDREW: And so, one of the things that I decided along the way was, you know, there's a lot of use of textiles, especially in Africa and west Africa, and the Orisha traditions, there's a lot of use of textiles in making thrones, in making ceremonial outfits, you know, in making panuelos, which are these elaborate cloths that we put on top of the Orisha sometimes. And so I wanted to kind of have a reference to that without trying to like emulate it or create like, recreate specific patterns, but use that visual idea to create a space for that symbolic language to hold, right? SUSIE: Yes. ANDREW: For the use of number, and through whatever other symbols got added to those designs and so on. So. SUSIE: Yeah, I really picked up on the fact that the design sensibility behind this had that sort of sense of, you know, scope and flow and bold lines that you get in textile. And, you know, that's not something you always see in tarot, and so it was really kind of a relief to the eye to sort of not get too, I don't know, bound up in the busy? ANDREW: mm-hmm. SUSIE: Yeah. I think what we see is sort of a looseness of the line, and … But at the same time a real exactness in terms of what symbols you wanted to portray and the way that you foregrounded them in each card. So, so, you did this actually on an iPad, right? ANDREW: I did, yeah. I did all of this digitally. I've been working pretty much exclusively digitally for the last five or six years now, I guess, ever since … SUSIE: Yeah. And does that have to do with being busy, being a parent, you know, just trying to live life in addition to being an artist? ANDREW: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean I don't have a studio space, you know, I don't have … Toronto is apparently one of the most expensive cities in the world to live in, thanks for that, whoever's responsible for that … SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: But space is certainly at a premium. And, you know, the only space where I maybe could do more studio type work is at the shop, and I already spend lots of time at the shop seeing clients and doing other stuff. I don't really want to be at work even if it's sort of as a creative outlet. And the iPad, you know, it's always with me, and when I was making this deck , I would just be like, oh, I've got an hour, time to work on one of the cards a bit. You know? SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: Here's some writing. Or whatever. It's just, it's always at hand, it's super portable, and especially, I got an iPad Pro, like one of the big ones, and an Apple pencil, which finally I was able to make happen through the process and you know, it's the best thing ever, it's just … SUSIE: Yeah, and if you get interrupted, you can just save it, and pick it up later. ANDREW: And I'm sure, like from a production point of view too, you can work in layers, like in Photoshop … SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: It's a real treat. So all the backgrounds are their own layers and all the symbols SUSIE: That's great, yeah. ANDREW: The line work symbols and stuff. So if I make a mistake, if I change my mind later … SUSIE: Right, right. Plus it gives you more freedom. I mean if you're doing a background you don't want to just stop to make room for the foreground, right? ANDREW: Right? Yeah. All also, I just sent all the Photoshops to Llewellyn, and they asked me if they could take some of them apart and use pieces for making the box and other stuff, which they did, which is fantastic. I'm so delighted with it. It just, it allows for a variety of options in a way that traditional mediums just don't, you know? SUSIE: Yeah, I was really excited to realize that you did this in a digital format like that just because I didn't know that you could create art like this in that way and have it come out looking so good. You know? ANDREW: Mm-hmm. SUSIE: And the other thing is that I just, I thought it was really funny, that just practically speaking, that it made so much sense for you. This is one of my hobby horses, the idea of just how difficult it is to be both a parent and a practitioner, you know, just to live your life and try to do this work is a constant struggle. Like, you know, you're in the middle of a banishing ritual and some kid is like, coming through saying, Mom, I missed the bus! ANDREW: Yeah! SUSIE: I mean, it's like it's every day, you know, trying to make that work is tricky for a lot of us. So I'm glad you found a way to make this happen. ANDREW: Me too. SUSIE: Okay, so I'd love to, if you feel like it, I'd love to talk a little bit about specific cards. If you could just give me a second, I have to plug … My laptop's going to run out of charge. I just have to plug it in real quick. ANDREW: Yeah. SUSIE: Just, be right there. [pause] Okay, we're good. And I can strip that out of the tape, later on, if you want. Okay. So, let's talk about a couple majors. I wanted to return to the Fool card, cause I think that's super important, where you have Elegua, who is, I guess, you know I don't want to make the mistake of trying to do too much equivalency here, but he is the one who makes communication possible as I understand it. ANDREW: Yeah. Elegua is the Orisha we speak to first in every ceremony, because he opens and closes the ways, and Elegua is all of the communication everywhere, on every single level, right. If we think about the communication between every cell in your body is that communication between the parts of the universe, you know, nothing exists or could happen without Elegua being there to facilitate that transfer of information from one place to another. SUSIE: Right. Right. And so, I think, you know, that's what makes it so important and so appropriate that he's the first card in the deck. You have to, even to open your mouth, to gather the air to speak, you have to be there, right, although he also has a presence in a number of other cards as well. And what people will see, when they look at it, is, I guess the, a common representation of Elegua is the kind of stone or concrete head with the cowrie shells embedded in it, right? ANDREW: Mm-hmm. Yeah, when people … A common solution, a relatively common solution to troubles in people's lives is to receive what's referred to as the Warriors … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: Which is Elegua, Ogun and Ochossi. It's an initiation that you don't have to be a priest to have. Anybody can receive this if it's marked or required. And they come into your life to help you fight your problems and overcome your obstacles and so on. And what there's actually, people are really accustomed to seeing these cement heads with the cowrie shells, but traditionally depending on your lineage, Elegua is … they have marked the path of Elegua, and there are many ways in which Elegua might be made. But I chose to make the one that people understand the most because I wanted it to be somewhat familiar to people, for sure. SUSIE: Right, and this is actually a symbol that ordinary people might have in their homes, right? ANDREW: Maybe. SUSIE: Yeah, yeah. Well, just real quick, after I got your deck, I had the craziest dream, where I dreamed that I got up and I went outside. And this was around midnight. And the UPS truck comes, [laughing] and gives me a package with my name on it, and I open it and I suddenly start to feel really strange like I'm high or I've taken something or ingested some kind of substance, like, just through opening the package. And then I was instantly transported into some kind of rite that was going on in my dining room. And Elegua was there. [laughing] And I thought this was, obviously this is not, I knew almost nothing before this week about this tradition, but, and I certainly have no way of knowing what significance that had or what, you know I certainly can't speak for the tradition in any way, but I thought it was, so interesting that, you know, my dream maker chose to take the delivery of your deck to me as this kind of mind-altering frame-shifting event. and then introduce, you know, this personification of communication, the opener of the ways, into the dream. ANDREW: Yup. Indeed. SUSIE: So I was very grateful for that experience. Okay. The only other major I really wanted to make sure we talked about was the Priestess card. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. SUSIE: Because it's not what people would ordinarily expect to see in a Priestess card, and I thought you could talk a little bit about what we're looking at and how it relates to the High Priestess we know and love. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. So, this is actually one of the cards that gave me the biggest trouble. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: I spent a lot of time working on this card, they're a bunch of drawings that got scrapped along the way, because I was just like, no, nope, no, no, no, that's not gonna cut it, that's too simple, that's too this, that's too whatever, right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: You know, so what we see in the Priestess card, is we see a bunch of cowrie shells, right? SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And the dillogun, or the cowrie shells, are you know one of the traditional tools of divination. For olocha, for priests in the way that I'm a priest, it's the way in which we speak with the Orishas. And, when we divine with the shells, we pray, and we invoke an opening with Elegua or whoever, for an Odu, for a sign, like a, the idea almost like a card to sort of … But those energies, those Odu, are the living unfolding of the universe, right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: So, they represent all of the knowledge that was and is and all of the possible knowledge of the future, or the possible unfoldings of the future. And so, those energies that arrive when we do a reading, and come to play in the life of the person who gets the reading done … It's actually a serious ceremony to get a reading. SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: It alters the course of your life, right? And, you know when we think of the Priestess or the Papess, right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: One of the things that we can talk about is knowledge, right? And it's deep metaphysical knowledge, right? SUSIE: Right. Which isn't readily accessible to you at a surface level. ANDREW: And, when we think about the Hierophant or the Pope as sort of the outer face of spirituality, the High Priestess is the inner face. She's the inner mystery of that, right? SUSIE: Right . ANDREW: And she is that knowledge which is hard to get to, that knowledge which is hard won, and that knowledge which is tied to a deep respect and a deep cosmic awareness of the nature of the universe, right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And so this Odu and the method of divination and the process of divination, to me mirrors that, right? SUSIE: Correct. ANDREW: And so the shells become the mouth of the Priestess, right? And if we look at it in a sort of Rider Waite symbol, right? Cascarilla and the Ota, the black stone? SUSIE: Yes! ANDREW: They mirror, we use those in the divination process, but they mirror those two columns … SUSIE: The boas and jacim, yeah. ANDREW: The positive and negative vibrations that are in that sort of duality. SUSIE: And those are a kind of … Are they a yes/no kind of stand-in? ANDREW: Yeah, we use them and other things to ask specific questions within a reading. We each have … There's about a half dozen Ibo that all have ritual significance, and we use them in different ways depending on the nature of the question we're asking. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And then the other thing that's going on in this card is, usually people divine on a straw mat or a tray … SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: With cowrie shells. And some people use a wooden tray, maybe, but more often than not a straw mat. So, I wanted to create this idea of the straw mat, but then this idea that below it is this sort of cosmic opening, right? This connection to everything. SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: So, this is actually probably one of the most abstracted cards in the whole deck … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: In that it doesn't really show an Orisha or a thing that is sort of easily connectable, but I think that it really represents a sort of, that depth of knowledge and connection, direct connection to the voice of creation, that I associate with the High Priestess and that you know I associate with this divination process. SUSIE: Yes. Now the Odu themselves, they're transmitted orally, right? It's not something that you just pick up a book, and not anyone can do it. ANDREW: Yes. If you're not a priest, you cannot do cowrie shells, right? SUSIE: Got you. ANDREW: There's no … The best thing we could say is that you don't have the spiritual license, and my elders would be quite clear, you know, you can do anything you want with these shells, but they don't speak for the Orishas, therefore whatever you get is irrelevant. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: You know … SUSIE: So it's not like what we think of … As tarot readers, we just pick up a deck and anyone can give it a go, this is something that you really need to go through initiation and be crowned as a priest to do. ANDREW: And spend a long time studying, right? You know you need to understand that there are 256, technically 257 signs. Each of those signs has a specific hierarchical order of Orishas that speak in them. Each of them has proverbs, songs, ceremonies, offerings, taboos, patakis, and then each of those signs can come in ire, like the sign of blessing, or asobo, the negative sign, and then there are many kinds of ire and osogbo, and if you start to multiply those out, you start to realize how many different permutations are possible in this system . SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: It takes a very long time and a lot of study to really come to understand what all those things mean. SUSIE: Yeah, and is that something that … So, this is something that you might do as a priest, correct? ANDREW: Yeah. SUSIE: And did you internalize all of those 256, 257 signs or was it, is it an ongoing study? How does that work for you? ANDREW: There's no end to the study. [laughing] SUSIE: Right. [laughing] ANDREW: Like hermeticism. When do you know enough? SUSIE: Oh, you never know enough. No no no … [laughing] Right. Okay. Well that's really helpful in terms of getting into the card. Are there any other majors that you'd kind of like to draw attention to before we look at minors? ANDREW: No, I'm happy to take your lead. SUSIE: Great. And honestly I would like to go through every single card in the deck, and I was having a lot of trouble sort of singling out a few that might be interesting to talk about, but given our time constraints, we'll just focus on some. I was looking at … the Nine of Wands, we're kind of going in order here, Nine of Wands [static at [01:04:39] see in this card, it's so interesting, because as I understand it, from your story, this is a representation of Yamaya, or one of her avatars I guess … ANDREW: Yeah. SUSIE: And there's a shipwreck, or an underwater ship, and [static] got a knife, and the knife has clearly just been used. So, maybe you can tell us a little bit about that. ANDREW: Yeah, I mean, one of the things that people … In making the deck, I wanted to disrupt people's preconceived notions, right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: Of certain things. You know, like people, it's common for people to say, yeah yeah yeah, if you want love, go and talk to Ochún. Right? And Ochún will help you find love. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: He might, it's possible, but sometimes [inaudible] Ochún in what context and so on and so on, right? But you know, Ochún also doesn't really dig people complaining very much, it's not a thing that she's really that into … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: So, depending on the attitude that you're feeling about this, Ochún might also be irritated by you approaching her about it, it's very hard to say. SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: Which is why, you know, traditional practitioners divine, right? SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: Because the good answer is, in traditional divination, any Orisha that offers to help you with a problem can help you with that problem. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: Whether we sort of generally associate that with being their purview or not, doesn't really matter, because if they say they're gonna help, they're gonna help, and you just say thank you, right? SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And, so when we think about Yamaya, people think about Yamaya as a sort of loving mother energy, as a sort of always supportive energy, right? You know? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: We really sometimes people are sent to work with her when they need sort of grounding and stabilizing of emotions … SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: But, you know, Yamaya also has many roads and many avatars, right? So we're talking about, you know, Obu Okotu, it's not gentle, she's really a lot more like a shark, right? SUSIE: mm-hmm. And so, you know, the idea, the thing that people often say, is that when the ship wrecks, she grabs the sailors and takes them down to their fate, right? SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: And so there's this real sort of show of strength and power with her that isn't what we would normally associate with it, but which is 100 percent a part of her personality, or at least her personality on that path, right? SUSIE: Right. And I actually thought that this was … You know, the more I thought about it, the more it tied to my own understanding of this card. I mean when I think of the Nine of Wands, I think of someone who has been derived their strength from the vicissitudes of life, from the experiences of having suffered and having learned. ANDREW: Yeah. SUSIE: And I think that … I also think of it as a very lunar card, so that made it kind of feel familiar to me as well. But also, the fact that power has a personality and ruthlessness to it, as well. ANDREW: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean the Nine of Wands often turns up to speak of people who are strong clear incredibly competent, and sometimes hard for other people to relate to because of those things, right? SUSIE: Yeah. They've been through a lot. ANDREW: Yeah, for sure. SUSIE: Yeah. Okay. Fascinating. And plus, it's just beautiful. You see the body of Yamaya, but at first you may not even recognize that it's a human form because of the blue on blue, it's a very underwater card. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Looking at -- Oh, you know, one of my favorite cards of all is your Ten of Cups. And, which I did receive this week, once, and what I love about it is the story that goes along with it. So maybe you could talk about that a little bit. Sure. So when we were talking earlier in the podcast about picking your Ore or picking your destiny, right? This card represents that process, right? SUSIE: mm-hmm. ANDREW: You know, when everybody's hanging out in Orun, up on the other side, you know where we're all spirits, eventually, people for whatever reasons decide it's time to come back to earth. You know, decide it's time to come back down here, you know, to the marketplace, to hang out and party, to fulfill something they haven't fulfilled, whatever it may be. And when they make that decision, they go, as my elders described it, you go down the hall to this room where Adela, who is the Orisha who crafts these destinies, as a series of sealed gourds … SUSIE: And that's the picture that we see on the card, we see Ajala with the gourds. ANDREW: Yeah, I mean I think of it more as a person choosing their destiny. SUSIE: Oh, I see! ANDREW: But maybe. SUSIE: Could be. ANDREW: Adula, as far as I know, I've never come across any personifications of them … SUSIE: So this, so in your mind, this was the soul choosing which one. ANDREW: But, and we don't have a sort of super clear sense of karma or carry over from one life to another. It's not really … it's a mystery that we acknowledge that we don't fully understand, right? So you go into a room full of sealed gourds, and you pick something, and you really don't know, it could be horrible, right? It could be great, whatever. But if you've been good friends with Elegua, you know, and you've kind of kept good faith with him, maybe you reach out for something and he gives a little cough and says hey, not that one. SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: Don't take that one. Right? SUSIE: And I love this that you have this little sketch of Elegua under the table, you know, very quiet. Very subtle. Yeah. [laughing] Just giving you a hint. ANDREW: Yeah. So once you pick your destiny, you go back and see your creator, and then your soul goes into a body. SUSIE: And you can see in the background of the card, you can see the outline of the Earth, so this idea that you're outside the material realm at that moment, choosing your fate, yeah, mm-hmm. I think that's just really beautiful. And I think it's quite relatable to, you know, in a traditional sense to the Ten of Cups, which I at least think of as the end of a cycle, you know, I often think of it as the end of the complete sequence of minors in some ways, because if you go through correspondences it immediately precedes the Two of Wands. But there's also this feeling, you know when you see the family on the Rider-Waite-Smith Ten of Cups, of this sort of being, they're taking a bow. This destiny is finished! And we're looking towards the next. ANDREW: People … the belief is that people tend to reincarnate along family
The Hermit's Lamp Podcast - A place for witches, hermits, mystics, healers, and seekers
Daniel and Andrew talk about different ways of relating to the ancestors. Especially getting into how to help the ancestors evolve and make our lives better in the process. They also get into their relatinoships to the orisha and ways of thinking about practicing a tradition that you were not born into. Daniel can be found through his site here. His events are there too. Daniel's talk on practicing other peopels traditions is here. Andrew's upcoming Ancestral Magick Course can be found here. Think about how much you've enjoyed the podcast and how many episodes you listened to, and consider if it is time to support the Patreon You can do so here. If you want more of this in your life you can subscribe by RSS , iTunes, Stitcher, or email. Thanks for joining the conversation. Please share the podcast to help us grow and change the world. Andrew You can book time with Andrew through his site here. Transcription ANDREW: Welcome to the Hermit's Lamp podcast. I'm hanging out today with Daniel Foor, and Daniel is a Ifá priest and has done all sorts of wonderful work along the lines of ancestral healing. And Ancestral Medicine is the name of the book that he has out. And he and I have a lot of similarities in practices and the kinds of things we're interested in, so, you know, lots of people have been suggesting I have him on for a while, and, and well, today's the day! So, welcome, Daniel! Thanks for being here! DANIEL: Thanks so much. It's good to be here. ANDREW: There are people who might not know who you are. Who are you? What are you about? DANIEL: Yeah, well, I ... to locate myself a bit, I'm a 40-year-old, white, cis-gendered American living in western North Carolina. From Ohio, originally, but traveled a good amount, but live in the States, and have a PhD in psychology. I'm a licensed therapist, so I have a background in mental health. But mostly I'm a ritualist, and I've been training with different kinds of teachers and traditions for over 20 years now, and started out with more shamanic pagan background with magical things, and migrated into involvement with Islam, and Sufism, Buddhist practice, and then circled back to involvement with indigenous systems and earth-honoring traditions. And in the last decade have been immersed in west African Ifá practice, lineages in the Americas and also in west Africa, and so I'm an initiate of Ifa, Obatala, and Oshun, and Egungun priesthood, [inaudible], and in the lineage of Oluwo Falolu Adesanya Awoyade, Ode Remo, in Ogun State. So I've been four times to Nigeria, and that's one influence on my practice. But mostly I teach and guide non-dogmatic, inclusive, animist ancestor-focused ritual practice. The last two years or so I have shifted to training others, which has been really satisfying after years of doing more public-facing ritual, I'm now ... I do some of that but mostly I'm training other people in how to guide the work. And I have developed a specialization in repair work with blood lineage ancestors. But I also operate from a broader animist or earth-honoring framework that isn't limited to just that. So. And I'm a dad, I'm a, you know, married, and love the earth here, and live in the American South, which is kind of strange, but also okay. Yeah. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. That's awesome. DANIEL: Yeah. ANDREW: So, I mean, I guess, my first question for you is, when did you start feeling the ancestral stuff calling you? DANIEL: Well, my own lineages are German, English, Irish, early settler colonialist to North America, and so I didn't inherit any religious or spiritual framework or culture that was of value to me in any conscious way as a young person. And so, my first teachers in shamanic practice, Bekki and Crow with the Church of Earth Healing, in the late 90s, nudged me to get to know my ancestors ritually. And it was really impactful, actually. I was surprised by it. I'd never thought about them really before that. And I ended up assisting with an older ancestral guide or teacher, my father's father who had taken his own life, and just showing up for that work, which was powerful. And it was a catalyst for me to research, do a lot of depth genealogy research about my own family history, and that dovetailed in with my training as a therapist, so I was in a period of connecting a lot of dots and valuing my own heritage, and, in a grounding way ... Not in like some awkward, go white people way, but in a way that helped me to reclaim what is beautiful about European, you know, northern western European cultures, and ... including earlier pre-Roman, pre-Christian magics and lineages. And so, I ran with that ritually. And have guided 120 maybe, multi-day, ancestor healing intensives since 2005 in that work, so I spent about six or seven years getting grounded with all of it myself. Then started to help other people with it. And it just organically developed as a specialization. And I tend to be a little obsessive about a thing, when I'm into it. I'll do that like crazy, until it's ... yeah. ANDREW: Yeah, I think ... I mean, I think it's interesting how ... Cause I do a lot of ancestral work as well, you know ... DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: I do ancestral divination work and, you know, ancestral sort of healing and lineage healing and so on. DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: You know, I've been teaching it with my friend Carrie, we have this, we developed this system of people working with charm casting as a tool ... DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: To get into that work. And, you know, we've been traveling around and teaching it everywhere. We were in China last year teaching it, and stuff like that, with people ... DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: You know, I think that the thing that sort of stands out in your story, that I think stands out everywhere, is so often, like the last little bit, you know, the last few generations, it's kind of wonky, or like there's not a lot, there's not a lot of connection or living connection. Even, you know, it wasn't until last year that I found out that my grandmother read tea leaves when she was alive ... DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And she's been gone for like 12 years, and it just never came up before. She never talked about it, and my mom just never brought it up. Not for any particular reason but it just, it just was never a thing. Even though that's the same grandmother who bought me a tarot deck when I was like 13, long ago. DANIEL: Right. Of course she did. ANDREW: But I would have talked about it, right? But how ... Often when you kind of go back, you know, a few generations or somewhere a bit deeper, you know, there are these sort of more ... evolved isn't the word that I super like, but you know, like, more grounded, more helpful, you know, ancestors with a, with a sort of more capacity to be really guides and assist you in this process, right? DANIEL: Yeah, often. It ... Where those cut-offs happen varies so widely from one demographic or even one individual to another, and I know in a lot of my own lineages, it's been over 1,000 years since anyone during life had a culturally reinforced and supported framework for honoring the ancestors. And so the older ones, the ones even before that, are quite available. So it's not ... I mean I could ... reinforce some kind of orphan victim culturally-damaged white person narrative, but it's not that sexy or useful, and so at a certain point, you're just like, well, you pick up the pieces where they're at, and get the fire going again. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: And the older ancestors are happy to do that. And so even if someone comes from a really recently and before that culturally fragmented set of lineages, the ancestors are still available, the older ones, and the main repair orientation or practice that I encourage people to try on at first is to partner with those older ancestors and with them, assist any of the dead who are not yet well, any of the ones between those older ones and the present, who are not yet really well-seated, really vibrant. Help them to become well-seated ancestors. So the dead change. It's very important for us living folks to not fix them in some static condition. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: Just cause people were a pain in the ass or really, you know, culturally in the weeds during life doesn't mean they're doomed to that condition forever. They can really change and become, not only, like, not ghosty, but they can become dynamic, engaged, useful allies for cultural healing work in the present. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: So. ANDREW: Yeah, I think it's, you know, it's a misconception that a lot of people have that they automatically change on crossing over. DANIEL: Oh, sure, yeah, that's different. (laughing) ANDREW: And then the other side of that is, you know, they can change, but it might take a bunch of work, even if they did change, right? DANIEL: Yeah, totally. Yeah, both, both are true. Yeah. The idea that just dying makes you wise and loving and kind is really hazardous actually, as a world view. So. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: Cause it'll lead to a view of ... I've seen it at times in pagan circles as well, where it's “Oh, the ancestors, ancestors are good, let's invoke them all. Okay, here are all the names of my ancestors, and the pictures, and let me light a candle and strongly invoke all of them.” ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: Well, I hope your invocation doesn't work. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: Because if it does, you're going to get a mixed bag! Cause your people are, you know, if they're well, awesome, but if they're not yet well, and your invocation works, then what you have is some not yet well ghosty energy in your space. ANDREW: For sure, right? And some of those spirits can be pretty tumultuous, you know, if they're ... DANIEL: Oh, no doubt. Yeah. ANDREW: [crosstalking 09:53] here. I have one grandfather that I continue to work with who, sort of, work on, let's put it [laughing]. DANIEL: Right. ANDREW: It's been a long time and they're still not ready to be, you know, front and center in anything, cause they just, so caught up in so much deep, deep trauma in their own life and in their generations before them, and, you know. DANIEL: One of, one of the things that I don't, I won't say it's unique to how I approach it, but it's emphasized in how I approach ancestor work, which isn't across the board, is I take a very lineage-based approach. Like I don't even really encourage, necessarily, relating with individual ancestors that much. ANDREW: Hmm. DANIEL: So in the case of someone, not to speak to your specific case necessarily, but let's say someone's grandmother is really quite entrenched in the unwell ghosty range of wellness. My strategy is to make sure that her mother and her mother and her mother and her mother and the lineage of women before them on back through time to the ancient weird witchy deity-like grandmothers, that that whole lineage is deeply well, and the repair happens from the older ones toward the present. And so, once you have the parent of the one who is quite troubled in a deeply well condition, and the whole lineage before them deeply well, as a group energy, asking them to intervene to address the rowdy ghosty grandparent tends to be ... It can ... Well, it can be more effective, simply because there's a re-anchoring of the rogue individuality in a bigger system, in a collective energy. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: And there's a respect for seniority or hierarchy, by having that person's elders be the ones to round them up. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: So, so that's. I shared that because in the West, generally, I find that people tend to conceive of ancestor reverence primarily as a relating of one individual to another individual, and, and some of the lineage or group level aspects of it can get lost, or they're not as emphasized. And so I find that's an important nuance to include, and then another is, and we've spoken to it, is just the way in which one's ancestors are not at all just the remembered dead, the ones, the recent ones, but they include ... The vast majority of them are living before remembered names. And that's helpful for people who are like, my family are abusive trolls. I'm like, okay, I believe you, but I think what you mean to say is all the generations you know about, which is probably not more than two or three. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: And so, it's like, you're at the ocean, at a windy, cloudy day, and you're saying, “Oh, the ocean is tumultuous,” well, I believe it is, right there at the beach. But the ocean's a big place, yeah. So expanding our frame for who we mean when we say ancestor is gonna be helpful too. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. For sure. Yeah, and there's lots of times when, you know, we'll make offerings or do work with all of those ancestors, right? With the Egun, right, with everybody? Right? DANIEL: Yeah. ANDREW: You know? And in those ways and so on, right? Yeah, yeah, I mean it's interesting how ... It'd really be interesting to make sure that you're looking at those things. And some of my, some of my best ancestral allies have been gone, you know, three, four hundred years, right? DANIEL: For sure. ANDREW: Or longer. DANIEL: Yeah, totally, yeah. ANDREW: They arrive, and they're just like, “Yes! You're the beacon of light amongst all of these things, and let's radiate that out to everybody afterwards and anchor further and deeper,” right? DANIEL: Yeah. For sure. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. So, when you're doing work with people, are you mostly focused on ... you know, because a lot of people come to ancestor work because they want to get messages and receive stuff and do ... DANIEL: Right. ANDREW: ...[inaudible at 13:59] kind of stuff, right? I mean, I think that that can be fruitful, too, I enjoy that kind of work as well, but that's not really what we're talking about here either, right? I mean not explicitly, right? DANIEL: Yeah. If we say like, what's the point? It can ... There are a lot of different motivations that can drive someone to want to engage their ancestors. The most common one is, “I'm suffering, will this help?” ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: That's legit. Sometimes it will help indirectly. Sometimes it will help directly because the source of the suffering is unmetabolized intergenerational trouble that's directly connected to ancestral interference, and so sometimes it, you know, it can help in different ways. Another motivator for the work is seeking life guidance, cause the ancestors have insight into our unique destiny, and can help us to move into closer alignment with that, you know, our unique instructions or soul level work in the world. As you know, in Yoruba culture, we sometimes talk about the world as the marketplace and Orun or the spirit world as home, and, and so if you forget your shopping list, working with the ancestors can be like, “Let us show you, you said this, this, this, and this,” and be like, “Oh, yeah, okay, thanks,” and so that's helpful to not waste our lives. And ancestors can be great for being a resource to parents or supporters in family, like they're especially good with all the family sphere, the domestic sphere, like being a responsible family human. And they're also good allies for cultural healing. A lot of the racism and colonialism and sexism and other kinds of cultural toxicity and garbage and bad capitalism that we're stewed in and trying to get out from underneath and help transform ... Those are ancestor, those are troubles created by the ancestors. Like, they're implicated in the trouble. And so they have, appropriately, a hand in resolving the trouble as well. And so they're great allies, by whatever form, activism, cultural change, all that. And so I really think that working closely with one's ancestors helps cultural change-makers to up their game, so to speak. So that's another motivation. And this is, I guess it's related to the one about destiny, but, inspired a bit from the Yoruba frameworks. The collective energy or wisdom of the ancestors is associated strongly with the Earth. Like the onile, the earth is like the calabash that holds the souls of the dead. And because the Earth is associated with accountability and, you know, moral authority, and is the witness through of all interactions, in that way also the ancestors carry that same quality of accountability. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: And I think whether or not people can consciously own it, some part of us craves accountability. Like we want to be seen and checked when needed. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: There's something really like ... our daughter almost made it to the top of the steps. Like, the door was open the other day. She's nine months old. But we caught her. It was good. It was way better than had we not held her in that moment. ANDREW: Right. DANIEL: And there's a way in which that kind of love and connectivity is like, “Oh, I'm not alone in the universe.” ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: If I crawl to the top of the steps, someone will pick me up. So we want that, and the ancestors bring that, as well, when we live with them. ANDREW: I think it's a, I think it's a thing that, especially, you know, in my experience, people, in Western culture, struggle with too, right? This sort of willingness to acknowledge an authority or an awareness or a position that's sort of above them in a way that they can allow in to say, “You know what, actually, we do know what's better for you in this moment.” DANIEL: [laughing] Oh, yeah, it's- ANDREW: You what, my friends, you know, going down that road has nothing to do with your destiny, or what have you, right? DANIEL: Oh, yeah! [laughing] ANDREW: Here's your fault in this mess that you're trying to put on this other person, right? DANIEL: Oh, yeah, no, people, look, I'm a teacher, also, and so often it's great and fine, and sometimes people are idealizing in awkward ways, and like, oh, don't do that, don't do that. But, but just whatever, fine, it's fine, it tends to burn out and even out. And also sometimes people are really just not okay with anything resembling a power differential or a student teacher relationship. ANDREW: Right. DANIEL: And it's ... It's tiring a little, as a teacher. Because there is a difference between telling someone just what to do in an authoritative way, and also saying, like, “Well, do you want to learn a thing? Because I know this skill. Like, what do you ... do you want to tell me how it goes, cause ... ?” So, so yeah, it is ... I think it's a function of power so often being abused, that people understandably have mistrust. ANDREW: Yup! DANIEL: Yeah. So I have compassion for it, and also the piece around hierarchy and authority is really, is challenging. In the coming months, some dear friends are going to Nigeria to do initiations and I was talking to them last night, and I was like, in the nicest possible way, “Really, your main job as the initiate is to obey.” ANDREW: Yes. DANIEL: Just to, like, the ritual is done to you, nobody really cares what you think about it. And it's totally fine. ANDREW: Stand here, stand there, [crosstalking 19:59]. DANIEL: Right! Yeah, totally, sit down, drink it, sit, eat it, say thank you. Like ... ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: Yeah. Like you're the thing being consecrated. Your input is not needed. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: Nothing personal. Next time you go back, then you can have an opinion. ANDREW: Yeah. And even then-- DANIEL: And even then, so you get one small vote. [laughing] Yeah. ANDREW: No, for sure. Yeah, let's see what people who ... I mean come for readings of all kinds, but you know, people who approach, you know, getting dillogun readings and stuff like that, and you know, the Orishas come through, and they're like, “Oh, you know what? Don't drink this year, don't, you know, whatever. Don't get tattooed. Don't, you know, no, no red beans for you.” They're like, “Well, what do you mean? I don't understand.” It's like, “Well...” [crosstalking 20:52] DANIEL: Obey! [laughing] ANDREW: What is the understanding? I mean, in a lot of that situation ... in some of those situations, the understanding is more obvious, right? DANIEL: Right. ANDREW: I had a conversation with a person who'd say, “Well, it seems like you kind of have this kind of challenge, and this is kind of the thing that might counter that,” and they're like, “Okay, yeah, maybe.” But other times it's just energetic or on other levels that it's just like, you know, it's kind of the ... It's an equivalent of saying “Hey, carry this citrine with you for the next year, it's going to help your energy,” but it's in a different structure that people don't relate to in the same way, right? DANIEL: For sure, yeah. ANDREW: And then they're like, “But, but, I don't want to be told what to do!” I'm like, “What else are you gonna do?” DANIEL: You just paid me to do that. ANDREW: Yeah, you asked, right? DANIEL: [laughing] ANDREW: You didn't have to, I wouldn't worry about it ... DANIEL: But some part of us does, some part of us really, I think wants to be told what to do. And that could go awry, and I'm not saying it's an entirely healthy impulse, but there's something about accountability and structure and community and limits, that's actually really intimate. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: And if you can't hear and accept “no,” your “yes” is meaningless. ANDREW: Mm. DANIEL: And so there's something that's precious and sweet about protocol and tradition and about structure. ANDREW: I also think that a lot of people don't really ... Faith is a really complicated and difficult thing for a lot of people too, you know? DANIEL: Mm. ANDREW: And especially when entering a new tradition, you know? And, and I think that part of what we're talking about here is also a matter of faith, right? What is your faith in the ancestors or the Orisha or whatever, and how, how do you sustain that faith through being deeply challenged by all that stuff? DANIEL: Yeah, and for me, look, I was involved with different Orisha teachers in the States, American, for the most part, and ... it didn't work out that well, for the most part. I mean, complicated. But I ... I felt like there was a lot of restrictive and unhealthy and kind of confused energy around it. And I had an opportunity to go to Nigeria to reset some of the initiation-like things that had happened here, so I took a risk on it, and I'm like, “Well, this is either gonna be like the final straw, or some breakthrough,” like, “let's pray for the latter.” And I saw kind of a non-dogmatic group community like, in my Ifá initiation, there were men aged like 80 to five, holding space. Like, and 20, 30 people there. And people were teasing each other, playing, and having a good time. Like the people were well human beings, they seemed happy. And so that relaxed, teasing heart aware energy. I'm like, “Oh, good, this is what I was looking for.” And it helped ... For me, it helped me to trust, and just not fight the system. I'm like, “Just tell me what to do.” Just okay, “eat the pig dung,” okay, “Leave me a bite,” or whatever. Whatever it is. Just tell me what to do. So. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: Yeah, it's great. ANDREW: I used to, you know, get some people who would bring their, you know, like, elderly, Cuban elders to the store. You know? And pick up stuff. DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: You know, they're here in Toronto to do a thing, and they'd bring this person to the store, right? And you know my Spanish is not great [laughing] and their English was not great, and we'd like, know some like, Yoruban words in common or whatever. And you would see how sweet and genuine and nice they were. And then they'd notice that like, you know, I've got plants growing at the front of the store for working with religion, and they'd be like, “oh, alamo,” I'd be like, “yeah, yeah,” and we'd have this like sort of pidgin conversation and a bunch of other things, and mostly what it would be is our hearts being opened, all this sharing of our love of this religion and these spirits ... DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And the continuity of that. And it was such a beautiful and uplifting experience, even though there wasn't a lot of words that were associated with it. There was just so much communication happening at other levels, and you could, you know, I could feel my Shango just being happy about it, you know, be like whoever there, too, just being happy about it, and so on. You know? It's so uplifting in that way, right? But ... DANIEL: That's good. It's one of the things in, you know, we had mentioned in our previous chat about my talk on practicing the traditions of other people's ancestors. And-- ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: I respect it a lot about the necessary and important dialogues around cultural appropriation, and especially, not only, but especially around respecting different Native North American or First Nations, as you say, traditions, and being mindful of what the conditions of involvement, if that's open, to non-Native people are, etc., and what's important to understand is those same parameters are not universal, and how cultures are shared and understood from one part of the world to another really vary. And Yoruba culture, for example, is generally an open system. Yoruba people in my experience, in Yorubaland, have never had anyone feel off about me being there and training in Orisha, except for the Christians, who were like, “Why don't you want Jesu?” I'm like, “We have Jesu where I'm at,” it's like, “It's fine, like, go Jesu!” but it's not why I'm here. And one of the things that is important though, is, it's family, like you're stepping into a family, a spiritual family. It's not like a “Hey bro, thanks for the culture, now I'm gonna go back and set up shop, I got what I need.” There's a ... And so when your teachers hit you up for money, it's family. That's what like, you can't be part of a family and have a bunch of stuff, and then other people don't have something, and you don't share it. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: And so it's ... It's not like you're getting exploited. I mean, that also happens. But just the ethic of sharing and supporting one another. If people don't want that, then they might not want to get involved. because most indigenous systems that I know of that are open to people not of that blood ancestry hold things in a family-oriented way. There's intimacy with that, but there's also connectivity, reciprocity, accountability. Yeah. ANDREW: And, you know, so, you know, my immediate family where I was initiated lives in the Detroit area, and my, you know, my elders are in Miami, you know, and like, but like, especially when the Detroit folks are doing work, you know, especially bigger things like making priests, you know, I always show up, like, you know, it's like you, when they're doing the work, and you're like, “Oh, it's so inconvenient for me to take four or five days off and go down there and help out, right?” And it's like, yeah, it's inconvenient, and you know, it's time off work, and it's whatever, but it's what those people did for me, right? And it's what allows all of that to continue, and it's a chance to, you know, to also sustain those connections, and you know, sing together, and sit and joke together, and, you know, complain about handling the ... cleaning up after the animals together, and whatever, it's just part of it, right? Like ... DANIEL: Right. ANDREW: And in the absence of being willing to engage that community element of it, right? It's pretty ... If you don't have the community element in one way or another, especially in the Orisha tradition, you don't really have much of anything, you know? DANIEL: It's true, with the tradition, it in my experience is very communal, and there are a lot of ritual domains of activity you just can't pull off solo. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: And it's just that, you know, it's a lot of hard work, it's heavy lifting. And for people who have worked with psychoactives, there's a certain kind of feeling among the group after a long, successful, like all night acid trip, when the sun's coming up, you're sort of like, “Oh, we've just gone through something together.” ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: And, and, minus the LSD, there can be a sense after a multi-day ritual of a strong sense of magic and beauty and intimacy that's shared through all the effort and all the devotion ... ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: That it takes to keep old lineages of practice alive. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: Yeah. ANDREW: For sure. And I think it's, I mean, one of the other points that I think was super important ... It's been a while since I listened to that talk and we'll link to it in the show notes, cause it was a good talk. Folks should go back and listen to it. You know, is also the fact that these are living traditions, right? They have continuity. DANIEL: Yeah. ANDREW: And, you know, but there's a big difference between, hey, we're gonna call up some Greek deities and see what happens, you know, and, like, or you know, see what happens sounds dismissive, I don't mean it in that way. And you know, there's nobody, there's no continuity to ancient Greece, in that particular way, versus there are people who've been practicing these traditions from person to person to person, all the way through until now, and you can actually go and ask those people and they can answer you as to what's done and how it's done and why it's done. DANIEL: Yeah. No, it's true. People don't ... If they don't know something, would be in the habit of divining on it, but I wouldn't want someone to, like, not go to flight school and then divine on how to fly the plane. [crosstalking] Yeah. ANDREW: Yeah. There's that great proverb, which I'm sure you know, which is “Don't ask what you already know,” right? DANIEL: Right. ANDREW: And I think that there's a sort of choleric glory to that which is, you know, there are things you just shouldn't ask, cause you should already know them, right? DANIEL: Right. ANDREW: You don't need to ask if we do this thing because we know we don't. You know? DANIEL: Yeah. ANDREW: We know that Oshun won't take this as an offering. We know that we don't do this kind of thing. We know that, like, you know, you don't ask if you could rob a bank cause the answer's already no. You know? DANIEL: Right. And there's a beautiful essay [inaudible 31:07] by Ologo Magiev [31:09], a child being asked to divine, and their parents died young and so they didn't get the information. And so they invoke their ancestors, and bring a lot of humility, and wing it, and it turns out fine. And, and I think there's also this kind of an implicit message, “And don't do that again. Don't pull that card too many times.” ANDREW: Right? DANIEL: [laughing] Then go train! ANDREW: For sure, right? DANIEL: So, it's both. The deities have kindness, and benevolence, and also, careful! ANDREW: Yeah. And, you know, I was traveling, and I got a call that a friend of mine was like at death's door in the hospital, basically, right? And, you know, and I was just literally at a rest stop getting, gassing up the car when I checked my phone in the middle of New York State, right? DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And I was just like, all right. And so I went and, you know, kind of looked around for some stuff, and it's like, there's nothing, like I can't, there's nothing I could really sort of put together here, so I just collected a bunch of white flowers and, you know, it's really hilly, right, so I just took them to a spot that I thought was appropriate for Obatala ... DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And I was like, Obatala, this is all I have today. I'm here, it's this situation, and I need you to accept these and intercede in the situation. And you can get away with that. But that's not practicing the tradition. And that's not gonna, as you say, it's not gonna fly all the time, right? DANIEL: Yeah. ANDREW: When you're at home, you can do all sorts of other things, you have your shrines or your ancestors or wherever you're working with, right? They will accept these things, cause they do understand circumstance and they're not tyrannical about it, right? They just say, you don't want that to be your way of practicing forever. DANIEL: I spent years like, I don't know, not quite 20 years, not involved in a really dedicated way in one set tradition. I was training with different traditions for a period of time, and would definitely learn stuff, and would develop my own ashe [33:20] or whatever, but I wasn't like embracing one fully, as an operating system. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: But I learned that it's possible to do it that way. That was actually really helpful to me. That it's possible to go deep with one's own ancestors, to go deep with the spirits of the land, where you're at. ANDREW: Sure. DANIEL: And to get to know them, and to get clarity about your own destiny and to just constellate in the different powers and forces and spirits that are gonna help you to do that. And I also ... that there's loneliness in going it solo, as well. There's like a freedom and a loneliness, both. And it drove me eventually to ... You know, I spent almost ten years involved in Orisha practice and Yoruba ways before I decided to initiate. And it's like a long slow dating process. It wasn't a lot of charisma. It was like, oh, you're the last one left standing, and ... ANDREW: [laughing] DANIEL: We have a ton of compatibility, why are we not doing this? And I go, okay, I guess we're gonna do this. So we just had the high match on the dating, you know, religious dating profile website. So I'm like, oh, maybe we should try this. And, and I haven't regretted it at all. It's very ... It's been a relief. The sense for me is of being held in a bigger frame. And it's not really ... It's not what I teach publicly, I'm not publicly offering services in that way, even though there are certain ones I could, in integrity. I'm still in training, I'm still trying to learn Yoruba language, and especially with a west African orientation of practice it's such an aural language-based tradition, especially Ifá practice in particular, so I'm trying to hold a ... I think if you're not ancestrally of a tradition, the standards are even a bit higher for you to get it right, which I think is fair and understandable. Especially with the cultural climate of racism in the west and all that, for European ancestor people to be doing west African Ifa, you need to not look like a fool doing it, and so part of that looks like studying the language and really, you know, taking to heart the training. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: But, it's possible to go really deep without stepping into a tradition. And there are a lot of ritual advantages to having a system to work from, as well. So I appreciate both sides of that. Yeah. ANDREW: Yeah, for sure. I think you can get there ... I think you can accomplish the same ends either way, right? DANIEL: Yeah, yeah. ANDREW: I think that where it gets, where it gets touchy is where you're solely working independently, but within the set of spirits that has a living tradition. If you're only working independently and devoid of traditional teaching, you know, that's where it starts to become a question for me of what ... DANIEL: Well, yeah, no, if the main powers you're working with are the Orisha, it's like, well, you've got to, here's the front door. You can try crawling in the window, but it's going to go badly, so. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: Yeah. But if you're just working with the weird old land gods and your own ancestors, you can get away with it. yeah. ANDREW: For sure. DANIEL: Yeah, for sure. ANDREW: Yeah. I also like the weird old land gods. You know? There's this beautiful ravine, you know, about a two-minute walk from the shop, [crosstalking 36:45] in Toronto. It runs through and you know, under there, there's sort of part of a buried river, that was once upon a time up on the surface, and all sorts of stuff, and there's wonderful and magical energies that are there, and really fascinating things have happened in that space over time. You know? Like I was ... I was there making a ... dealing with something and helping somebody, and making an offering essentially to the spirit of that place in the snow, right? And then when I came out of sort of the wood part back onto the path, all of these moths emerged, these white moths. And I'm like, there's snow on the ground, and it's snowing right now, what is going on with these things? And I'm like, all right, I'll take it. Big old yes from the spirits of this place on that thing, you know? DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: So I mean yeah, there's some amazing stuff that can happen in those ways, for sure. DANIEL: Nice. Yeah. ANDREW: So, I mean, first thing is, I'm going to ask you now if people should, if they're listening to this, and they want to think about starting a, you know, where they should start? And I know that one of the answers is definitely, they should go read your book, cause your book is great. DANIEL: Sure. ANDREW: But like, for the context of our conversation today, where would you kind of point people? Where, where do you point people [inaudible 38:02]? DANIEL: I'm not a very trusting person, really. So, if I were to listen to this conversation, and I didn't know that I'm a good person, I would go to my website, which is ancestralmedicine.org. Root around there, see what the vibe is, and there are other talks, or whatever, and see if you, you know, get an instinctual, this guy's not crazy vibe from where I'm coming from, and if you're drawn to the ancestral work, there are three main ways to engage. One is to connect with one of the practitioners in the directory there. And there are 30 some people at this point who are trained in the work. Men, women, all different genders of people [38:43--not sure I've got his exact words here], ancestrally diverse people, lots of different opportunities for low income sessions, sessions in seven languages, so, opportunities to connect with people directly for session work. That's the most efficient way. Another is that I offer an online course that starts in December, that's thorough, and it maps along the heart of the book, chapters 5 through 9, which is lineage repair work, and there's a lot of support throughout that course, so that's an option, and I'll also be offering a course through the Shift network in the fall. And then, a third way is the in-person trainings. And the last one I'm going to guide probably in North America will be in just over a week in Ottawa, the 24th to the 26th, and there's a talk on August 22, next Wednesday, in Ottawa as well, and all the info on that is on my site, and additionally, to that, there are trainings in maybe ten cities and also coming up in Australia and Mexico and maybe Russia and Canada and Victoria, so. And those are done by students who I trust to guide the work. So in person work, online course, or sessions, are, in addition to the book, the three main ways to plug in. Yeah. ANDREW: Perfect. DANIEL: And, and, you know, like just to say it, if you're wary of people, which is warranted, this approach to the work doesn't involve the practitioners or me or anybody saying, “Hey, this is what your grandmother says to you.” It's about stepping the individual through a process of reclaiming and re-energizing their ability to connect directly with their own people. So, it's an empowering approach in that way. It's not somebody getting all up in the mix and channeling messages to your people. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not this approach, so. And especially if your family's a mess, it's useful to do ancestor work. Cause you get some space from all that, and connect with what's beautiful and trustworthy in your own blood and bone lineages. So that's grounding, it's helpful, also for the cultural healing that's needed. ANDREW: Yes. Well and I think it can be quite liberating, you know, because we're carrying those patterns, right? DANIEL: Oh, yeah. So you can relate consciously or unconsciously with your people, but you don't get to opt out of relatedness. Yeah. ANDREW: Exactly, right? And if we can tidy those up and take some of that burden off of us or free ourselves from that, right? Then we get to show up much differently in that way, right? DANIEL: Yeah. I think the masquerades in Yoruba culture, Egungun, and it's a blessing when they come around, but it's also a lot of people try not to be touched by them. And so there's ... It conveys something about the ancestors, like, they're dangerous to avoid and they're dangerous to have around. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: But, whatever, it's just like living humans. [laughing] ANDREW: For sure. People are challenged on both sides of the veil, right? DANIEL: [laughing] Yeah, exactly. ANDREW: For sure. DANIEL: So, good. ANDREW: Well, thank you so much for making time today, Daniel. It's been great to hang out and chat with you. DANIEL: For sure, thanks, Andrew, thanks for your service, here. Blessings on everything you're up to. ANDREW: Thank you. DANIEL: Yeah. Good.
[spp-playlist] Andrew was born in 1987 in Catskill, NY, then grew up in Jackson Hole WY. He is a novelist and playwright, producing a his original plays in Wyoming and New York City. His writing has appeared in Thrillist, American Trails Magazine, Planet Jackson Hole, and other publications. An avid traveler to Iceland, he has worked as a whale watching guide and a sous chef in a remote, rural fjord. As a novelist, he is represented by Bradford Literary Agency. WATCH Andrew's TEDx Talk HERE LEARN more about Andrew HERE. BeTheTalk is a 7 day a week podcast where Nathan Eckel chats with talkers from TEDx and other branded events. Learn the tips tools and techniques that can help you give the talk to change the world at www.BeTheTalk.com !
[spp-playlist] Andrew was born in 1987 in Catskill, NY, then grew up in Jackson Hole WY. He is a novelist and playwright, producing a his original plays in Wyoming and New York City. His writing has appeared in Thrillist, American Trails Magazine, Planet Jackson Hole, and other publications. An avid traveler to Iceland, he has worked as a whale watching guide and a sous chef in a remote, rural fjord. As a novelist, he is represented by Bradford Literary Agency. WATCH Andrew's TEDx Talk HERE LEARN more about Andrew HERE. BeTheTalk is a 7 day a week podcast where Nathan Eckel chats with talkers from TEDx and other branded events. Learn the tips tools and techniques that can help you give the talk to change the world at www.BeTheTalk.com !
[spp-playlist] Andrew was born in 1987 in Catskill, NY, then grew up in Jackson Hole WY. He is a novelist and playwright, producing a his original plays in Wyoming and New York City. His writing has appeared in Thrillist, American Trails Magazine, Planet Jackson Hole, and other publications. An avid traveler to Iceland, he has worked as a whale watching guide and a sous chef in a remote, rural fjord. As a novelist, he is represented by Bradford Literary Agency. WATCH Andrew's TEDx Talk HERE LEARN more about Andrew HERE. BeTheTalk is a 7 day a week podcast where Nathan Eckel chats with talkers from TEDx and other branded events. Learn the tips tools and techniques that can help you give the talk to change the world at www.BeTheTalk.com !
BeTheTalk is a 7 day a week podcast where Nathan Eckel chats with talkers from TEDx and other branded events. Learn the tips tools and techniques that can help you give the talk to change the world! Andrew is a freelance writer that devised 90 Strangers In 30 Days, a challenge he hoped would alleviate the social anxiety he struggled with. A reddit post he wrote made the site's front page & years later still generates messages, questions, and comments from those looking to improve their own social skills. Watch Andrew's TEDx Talk HERE. Learn about Andrew HERE.
BeTheTalk is a 7 day a week podcast where Nathan Eckel chats with talkers from TEDx and other branded events. Learn the tips tools and techniques that can help you give the talk to change the world! Andrew is a freelance writer that devised 90 Strangers In 30 Days, a challenge he hoped would alleviate the social anxiety he struggled with. A reddit post he wrote made the site's front page & years later still generates messages, questions, and comments from those looking to improve their own social skills. Watch Andrew's TEDx Talk HERE. Learn about Andrew HERE.
Another episode of tales at sea. Following on from the mysterious tales of the Dark Gentleman, we find another curious passenger on board…although will they turn out to be any less disturbing to the crew? Music: Creepy — Bensound.com. Andrew: Here are some Totally Made Up Tales, brought to you by the magic of the internet. This week: The Stowaway. James: Martin, the First Mate, thought he knew everything about this ship, as First Mates really ought to. Andrew: It was not the largest ship the world had ever seen, but nevertheless it contained many nooks and crannies and corners that men who had served on it across journeys of several months had still not managed to explore. James: Martin, however, knew them all. But something was not quite right. Andrew: There was a strange energy on board the ship, that was quite different to the masculine peace that settled aboard the boat once the shore was safely left behind. James: It reminded him of the one or two times when they'd transported families from Southampton across to the New World looking for a new life. Andrew: It was not as strange as the time when the famous occultist traveled with them and disappeared halfway across the ocean, but it was still something not quite right. James: Martin didn't like it when things weren't quite right, it upset the smooth running of the ship and it made the men grumble, and that was one of the worst things to contend with. Andrew: He decided that he would determine for himself whether there was anything untoward going on, on the ship, but he would do it in a subtle and determined manner. James: He drew up a schedule where he could regularly walk every turn and every corner of every deck, both above and below. Andrew: He began his exploration and very soon began to have an even more acute sense that there was something either just ahead of him or just behind him, but it was as if, whenever he turned his head, the thing it was that was following him or that he was following — and he could not be sure which it was — had disappeared, and he was left once more alone. James: He had first had the sense a day or two out of port, and it continued for a full week, gradually making him more and more frustrated, until one day, Timothy, the old cook, came to him. Andrew: Timothy was a grumpy man, perpetually red in the face with irritation, and missing his right leg. He had adapted his kitchen galley successfully so that he could navigate his way around, but in all other areas of the deck he moved on traditional sailor's wooden crutches. James: He came to Martin with a complaint about theft. Andrew: An entire barrel of biscuits, which he had been intending to use later that week, had disappeared from the kitchen, lock, stock, and barrel. James: Martin knew that none of the men would have tried to secrete an entire barrel anywhere else about the ship, it was a ridiculous and foolhardy notion that you could even get away with it, and so he continued his pacing about the decks until he discovered the barrel, now empty, in one of the smaller holds. Andrew: Scattered on the floor around the barrel here and there were biscuity crumbs. James: Martin spent some time checking the rest of the hold, looking behind the crates and boxes, and underneath the tarpaulins, but he could not find any indication, other than the barrel and the crumbs, that anything was amiss. Andrew: Later that day, in the evening, he sat down with the Captain for dinner, and the Captain turned to him with his customary question and said, "Well then, First Mate, what are the news?" James: He recounted how Timothy had come to him and his investigation and what he'd discovered, and the Captain looked at him with suspicion crossing his face, "Have you felt a presence onboard ship?" he asked. Andrew: "Well sir, as it happens," Martin replied, "I have felt a rather different atmosphere on the ship than usual… it has seemed that there has been something here." "What do you make of… this?" said the Captain. He opened the draw of his work desk and took out a piece of paper covered in a strange childish scrawl, and laid it out in front of the First Mate. James: "Was that? It looks like it was drawn by a child, sir." Andrew: "Yes, it could be a child or possibly a madman, or I'm not entirely sure. I dismissed it entirely of course, read it through for me." James: "I can't make it out at all, sir. It doesn't seem to be written in English, or indeed any other language as I recognise." Andrew: "Yes, I thought that," said the Captain. "But here, look, when you hold it up to a mirror, now try." James: "Oh my word," said Martin. "You're right. It's a diary." Andrew: "Yes, that's right. A page from a diary. A diary that's been kept while on this ship. I found it fluttering along the passage outside the door to the hold." James: "Do you really think so sir? We have a stowaway?" Andrew: "I think we should consider the possibility. Nothing has been quite right on this ship since the time that mysterious man disappeared after saving us from pirates, and I wonder if the forces of the occult have returned to haunt us." James: "I shall organise the men to do a thorough inspection, sir. I'm sure we will catch them." And indeed Martin was sure that he would catch the stowaway. Andrew: Duly assembled, the men set out in groups of two around the various passages of the ship in search of the mysterious diary writer. James: Creeping down the passageways, hunting through the holds, peering into the dark corners, the men gradually covered every inch of the ship. Andrew: Each pair in their turn, returned from their searching to the main deck to report to the First Mate, and came back empty handed. Not a sign, not a scrap, not the slightest clue as to the writer of the diary had been found. James: Two by two, Martin ticked them off in his head until there were five pairs still out, then four, then three, then two. The last pair that had gone down into the holds below reported that they could see nothing out of the ordinary, and he was just wondering how the other pair was getting along when the sound of a struggle came from the cabins that they had been searching. Andrew: The cries and thuds muffled by the several layers of decking nevertheless could be heard and stirred an immediate call to action in the First Mate. He grabbed two of the pairs nearest him, his trustiest men, and set off down the hatches to go and investigate for himself. James: He burst in, the men hard behind him, on an amazing scene. Andrew: Inside the passengers' cabin, standing quietly and unassumingly in the centre of the passenger cabin was a small elfin faced girl with close cropped hair, beaming at them with her hands on her hips. Lying on the ground of the cabin in front of her were the two burly sailors, out for the count. James: A thought flashed through Martin's mind, wondering how on each how such a small child had managed to overcome such large men, but he was too well trained to voice this concern. "Seize her!" he cried. Andrew: The men who had come down with him and to whom his order was addressed looked at the girl, looked at their fallen comrades, looked nervously at each other, and hesitated upon the threshold. "Didn't you hear me, men?" said the First Mate, "in and seize her!" James: Greg looked at Harry, and Harry looked at Greg, and neither of them wanted to be the one to make the first move. So Martin reached forward and grabbed the girl by the scruff of the neck. Andrew: At once, she burst into tears, and paying no heed to her bawling, Martin dragged her through the passageway, dragged her up onto the deck, into the Captain's cabin, where he threw her roughly to her knees in front of the ship's commander. James: "Good work, Martin," said the Captain. "And what are you, eh?" Andrew: The little girl looked at him, sobbing, wide eyed, and said, "oh please sir, please, have mercy on me." James: Martin nudged her with his foot. "Captain asked you a question," he said. Andrew: "Oh, oh, I am ..." The girl took a deep breath in and looked directly at the Captain imploringly and said, "I am but a poor child, sir. My father was a sailor of many years standing and spent his life at sea and one day in a tragic accident was killed when his ship caught fire. My mother was unable to support herself, me and my brother, and my brother signed up to sail to the New World in the Navy and I decided that the only way forward for me was to follow him and so I ended up here on the first ship I was told was sailing to the New World and I hid in the hold." James: The Captain looked at her sternly. "I cannot just let stowaways use my ship as free transport between the continents." He said. "We cannot throw you overboard, we're in the middle of the sea, but if you are to remain here, you must work to earn your keep." Andrew: "We have no use for you on deck, this is man's work requiring a man's strength, but the kitchen is short of a boy, you shall serve there for the remainder of the voyage. Go, at once. You will be directed by Timothy the cook." James: And so Martin took her down to the galley, and introduced her to Timothy, and Timothy immediately put her to work scrubbing the Brodie stove to keep it clean or at least as clean as Timothy deemed necessary for basic sanitary food production purposes. Andrew: With a dedication and an application and a thoroughness that seemed uncharacteristic for someone that looked outwardly so delicate, the little girl scrubbed at the stove, scrubbed and polished and shined. Bucket after bucket of dirty water was emptied over the rail into the sea, until the Brodie stove was as good as new. She turned to the cook and said, "sir, I have scrubbed the stove. What would you have me do next?" Tim looked at her and said, "sir? I'll have no sir in my kitchen! I'm Tim the cook, and what's your name?" James: In a small voice, Elsie introduced herself and told her story of how she had come to be on the boat. In return, Timothy gave her a history of the vessel, including some of the rare goods that they had transported and the confusing and perplexing tale of the Master of the Dark Arts, who had recently bought passage with them to the New World. Andrew: Over the days that followed, Tim and Elsie built up an extraordinary rapport. The cook, who was usually one of the grumpiest and least sociable fellows aboard the ship, had taken a shine to this little girl, and she to him. The atmosphere in the kitchen changed from one of shouting and swearing to one of laughter and camaraderie, and the quality of the food rose remarkably as a result, raising the morale of the rest of the crew. James: Over dinner one night at the Captain's table, the Second Mate, Will, turned to the First Mate, Martin, and mentioned sotte voce that perhaps they should have a stowaway on every voyage. Andrew: They laughed, looking at their empty plates wiped clean by freshly baked bread, when suddenly they were interrupted by a cry from the lookout tower. "Ship ahoy!" James: Coming onto the deck, the Captain looked at the lookout, who was pointing hard astern. Behind, somewhere in the darkness, there was a light. Andrew: A half a mile off or so it seemed, there was a ship shaped object bobbing backwards and forwards with the motion of the waves with an eerie glow that seemed almost otherworldly. James: Slowly, the shadowy shape was gaining on them. Andrew: The Captain summoned the crew to their action stations, called for the sails to be hoisted full up, and observed the mysterious shape still gaining on them. James: The faster they went, the faster it pursued. As the spectre came closer, the lanterns from their own ship, and the light inside it, gradually made the shape clearer. Andrew: The First Mate turned to the Second Mate and, furrowing his brow, said, "this is going to sound like a very strange thing to say, but does that look to you like a ship made out of smoke?" James: "Not any ship," said the Captain. "That is the ship that we saw burn to the waterline." And it was true, the superstructure looked identical, the rigging, the position of the masts and sails. It was the pirate ship that had chased them so recently. Andrew: And as it came closer, the mysterious glow that had revealed it when it was at a distance to the lookout resolved into the flickering embers of the final burning pieces of wood floating on the water underneath the smoky shape. James: "Can we even fight that, sir?" asked the Second Mate. Andrew: "Do we need to fight it, sir?" said the First Mate. "What's its intention? It's just smoke." James: "It's evil," said the Captain. "Prepare the cannon." Andrew: "How do you know it's evil, sir?" said Will. James: "I just have a feeling," said the Captain. "The feeling that evil has been dogging us ever since that ship burned." Andrew: The cannon trundled forward on its heavy wheels to the ship's rail and was being loaded by the men responsible for it. They turned to the Captain and said, "Ready to fire, sir", and the Captain said, "Very well, fire at —" But before he could finish the command, a small tug on his elbow revealed that Elsie had come up to the deck and was looking at him with a serious face. "Please sir," she said, "don't fire on the vessel, it's me that it's come for. Please let me go and speak to it." James: Agog, the Captain let her pass. Elsie walked right up to the rail and held her hand out towards the ship that was now only a few dozen feet away. Andrew: Out of the swirling mass of smoke that made up the shape of the ship, with its amorphous and shifting edge, there seemed to solidify an additional shape of a man standing opposite Elsie, face to face, where the rail of that ship would be if it had a rail, and it seemed to that an arm came out from his smoky body and extended across the water and gently, gently, gently made its dark tendrily way to her hand until it touched it. James: As soon as it did, the smoky ship started to dissolve and waft away on the fresh breeze coming in from the ocean behind it. "Daddy," she called out gently. And in response, a deep thrumming sound seemed to make the word "Elsie" from across the water. Andrew: With the contact between the two having been made, the form of the smoke ship dissolved and it became once more the mists that roll over the seas at night and ceased to have any shape or solidity. James: And as it dissolved, so too did Elsie's form gradually fade away until the Captain, the First and Second Mate and the crew members could see plain through her. Andrew: As she was on the verge of disappearing before their very eyes, she turned looking at the crew in turn and taking them all in with her penetrating gaze, finally her eyes rested on the Captain and she said, "thank you" — and vanished. There came from the hatch leading down to the galley a sobbing which caused the First Mate to turn and there to his surprise he saw Tim with his face buried in his cook's apron, uncharacteristically emotional. James: The crew were quiet for the rest of the journey, less banter and less grumbling than usual. In the Captain's cabin, a number of hushed conversations over dinner attempted to discern just what Elsie had been and where she had gone — but without coming to any conclusions. Andrew: The only thing that everybody could agree on was that the quality of the food had improved, and from that day forward it remained the best on the high seas.
Our fourth episode of Totally Made Up Tales, with more tales of wonder and mystery. Spread the word! Tell a friend! Music: Creepy – Bensound.com. Andrew: Here are some totally made up tales. Brought to you by the magic of the internet. James: One Andrew: Day James: Elise Andrew: Held James: Her Andrew: Boyfriend James: Tightly Andrew: And James: Whispered Andrew: That James: She Andrew: Was James: Pregnant. Andrew: He James: Was Andrew: Surprised James: But Andrew: Delighted. James: Together Andrew: They James: Planned Andrew: For James: A Andrew: Home James: That Andrew: Would James: Welcome Andrew: A James: New Andrew: Life. James: Painting Andrew: The James: Nursery Andrew: In James: Bright Andrew: Green James: With Andrew: Some James: Dinosaurs Andrew: On James: The Andrew: Walls. James: Building Andrew: A James: Crib Andrew: Out James: Of Andrew: Ikea James: And Andrew: Reading James: To Andrew: Each James: Other Andrew: The James: Day Andrew: Of James: Delivery Andrew: Arrived James: And Andrew: They James: Took Andrew: Elise James: To Andrew: The James: Hospital, Andrew: Where James: She Andrew: Gave James: Birth Andrew: To James: A Andrew: Healthy James: Baby Andrew: Dinosaur James: The Andrew: End. James: This is the story of the Gamekeeper's Family. Once upon a time, not so very long ago, there lived a couple in a wood. Andrew: The husband was a gamekeeper at the local estate. James: His wife was a housekeeper for the same. Andrew: They had lived in their little cottage very happily for the last fifteen years. James: But ... they longed for a child. Andrew: They had tried many things, been to doctors, healers and priests but without success. James: They had traveled the world looking for witches that might be able to cure their barrenness, but all in vain. Andrew: After many years of searching and hoping, they had resigned themselves to their situation and were content to mind the children of their neighbours and fellow workers. James: But one day, as the gamekeeper walked home through the forest paths, he came across a basket. Andrew: Attached to the basket was a note, read, “please take care of me” and inside wrapped up in blankets there was a tiny baby. James: He rushed home to his wife to show her what he had found. Andrew: They spent a long time discussing whether or not it would be right for them to keep this child. Who had left it there and why? James: Eventually, they chose to consult the local vicar who assured them that with all of their experience helping to look after their neighbours' children and given that almost everyone else in the village already had children of their own, the right thing would be for them to keep it and raise it as their own. Andrew: This they did, with great success and a fine healthy young man was the product of their labours. James: They had named him Benjamin, after the wife's father and as Benjamin grew in stature, he also grew in the love given to him, not only by them but by others in the village. For everyone enjoyed his outgoing and pleasant company. Andrew: As the years passed the time came for him to take over his father's job as gamekeeper on the estate and this he did. James: He had spent his childhood growing up amongst the forest and knew how to look for the different types of woodland animal and also how to protect them. How best to defend them from poachers and so forth. And so, continuing the charm of his childhood as he started his job, he proved to be more than adept as a gamekeeper and was rapidly promoted until he became head gamekeeper. Andrew: After many years, his parents passed away in a peaceful old age and he moved back to the cottage where he had grown up. James: By this time, he was himself, married, although as with his parents, he and his wife Amelia, had not been able to have a child. Andrew: One day, while out walking in the estate, completing his rounds and jobs, Benjamin too came across a basket with a note attached. James: The note, as the note on his own basket, said “please take care of me” and inside was a tiny child that he took home to Amelia and which as with his parents before him, they decided it was right to adopt. Andrew: Now, the listener will not know that Benjamin's parents had not chosen to share with him the story of how they had found him in a cradle in the woods. And so, it did not occur to him that there was anything unusual about this coincidence. James: As Benjamin and Amelia's daughter, Susanna, grew, she also, much like Benjamin was much loved around the village and when it came time for her to start working, she took over Amelia's job as housekeeper, as Amelia had taken over the job of Benjamin's mother before her. Andrew: And so it was that this story played out from generation to generation. Susanna had a son named Robert. Robert had a daughter named Barbara. Barbara had a son named Tom. James: And always, down through the generations, the same jobs were passed from father to daughter, from daughter to son, across the generations, gamekeeper and housekeeper both. Andrew: But why? Why was it that these popular, lovable, outgoing people were never able to have children of their own? And where was it that the mysterious foundlings were coming from? James: For that, dear listener, we must go back to the first gamekeeper and housekeeper, Benjamin's parents, and see their story from another angle. Andrew: Once upon a time there was a magical forest where there dwelled many sprites and pixies. James: Chief among them was a fairy who had lived for many hundreds of years, spending her time looking after the non-magical creatures of the kingdom. Andrew: Now, many fairies have an ambiguous and complicated relationship with human beings, seeing them somewhat like a tree sees a fungus growing on its bark. James: At times, the fairy would help humans through stumbling difficulties in their lives, but at other times she would punish them for what she saw as a transgression against the magical forest. Andrew: She was, to our eyes, capricious in her whims. Sometimes kind, sometimes cruel. James: One day, the gamekeeper, while walking home through the forest spied a rogue pheasant which had somehow escaped from, as he thought, the forest that he managed. Andrew: What appeared to be a pheasant to his eyes, was in fact the fairy, wandering through her domain. James: He carefully set a trap and as she did not consider him a threat, she walked right into it and was quickly bound and trussed with him carrying her home towards the pot. Andrew: He was not by nature a sentimental person, having spent his life working with the wild animals of the forest. But, there was something about the way this bird fixed him with a seemingly knowing stare as he set it down on the kitchen table that made him think twice about instantly wringing its neck. James: In the moment that he hesitated, the fairy, as fairies sometimes do, cast a spell, not only for her to be released and free but also so that he would forget having ever encountered her. And, as fairies are also sometimes wont to do, she cursed him at that moment, annoyed and upset that she had ignominiously been bound and walked over the forest. She cursed him that he should never have a child to love him. Andrew: Sometime later, the fairy observed his wife walking through the forest and weeping and lamenting her lack of children. James: Unaware that this woman was in any way related to the gamekeeper she had previously cursed, she cast a beneficial spell over the housekeeper that she would have a child that she so clearly desired. Andrew: The child of course, was easy to provide for fairy folk often have children which they need to be raised in the human world. James: And no one ever questioned from Benjamin through Susanna, through Robert, through Barbara, through Tom, why, when their feet touched the ground in the forest, flowers grew in their footsteps. Andrew: And from generation to generation, they continued to live, in the small charming cottage in the middle of the wonderful magical wood. James: Sally Andrew: Held James: Her Andrew: Handbag James: Defensively Andrew: When James: The Andrew: Mugger James: Threatened Andrew: Her James: With Andrew: A James: Knife. Andrew: She James: Balanced Andrew: On James: The Andrew: Balls James: Of Andrew: Her James: Feet Andrew: And James: Lashed Andrew: Out James: With Andrew: Her James: Handbag Andrew: Knocking James: Him Andrew: Over James: And Andrew: Giving James: Her Andrew: The James: Chance Andrew: To James: Escape. Andrew: She James: Reported Andrew: The James: Incident Andrew: To James: The Andrew: Police James: Who Andrew: Promptly James: Ignored Andrew: Her James: And Andrew: Carried James: On Andrew: Filling James: In Andrew: Paperwork. James: The Andrew: End. James: Our next story is Jeremy's Place. One Andrew: Day James: Jeremy Andrew: Was James: Walking Andrew: Along James: The Andrew: High James: Street Andrew: When James: He Andrew: Noticed James: That Andrew: The James: Shops Andrew: Were James: All Andrew: Closed. James: In Andrew: Normal James: Times Andrew: They James: Would Andrew: Be James: Open Andrew: On James: Fridays Andrew: But James: Today Andrew: They James: Were Andrew: Not James: “Hmmm?” Andrew: He James: Thought Andrew: “Is James: There Andrew: A James: Special Andrew: Occasion? James: Perhaps Andrew: It's James: Remembrance Andrew: Day? James: But Andrew: That James: Is Andrew: Always James: On Andrew: A James: Sunday.” Andrew: So James: He Andrew: Knocked James: On Andrew: The James: Door Andrew: Of James: The Andrew: Post James: Office Andrew: And James: Waited Andrew: For James: Someone Andrew: To James: Open Andrew: It. James: Waited Andrew: And James: Waited Andrew: Then James: Waited Andrew: Some James: More. Andrew: He James: Gave Andrew: The James: Putative Andrew: Post-mistress James: Half Andrew: An James: Hour Andrew: And James: She Andrew: Didn't James: Appear. Andrew: So James: He Andrew: Pushed James: And Andrew: The James: Door Andrew: Opened. James: “Funny,” Andrew: He James: Thought Andrew: And James: Stepped Andrew: Inside. James: Inside Andrew: There James: Was Andrew: No James: Light. Andrew: In James: The Andrew: Space James: Reserved Andrew: For James: Packages, Andrew: There James: Was Andrew: A James: Small Andrew: Dog. James: “Strange,” Andrew: He James: Thought, Andrew: And James: Approached. Andrew: The James: Dog Andrew: Looked James: At Andrew: Him James: And Andrew: Opened James: His Andrew: Mouth. James: “Why Andrew: Are James: You Andrew: Here?” James: Asked Andrew: The James: Dog Andrew: “I James: Want Andrew: To James: Know Andrew: What's James: Going Andrew: On?” James: Said Andrew: Jeremy. James: “This Andrew: Is James: Not Andrew: A James: Place Andrew: For James: You.” Andrew: Said James: The Andrew: Dog James: “Where Andrew: Am James: I?” Andrew: “You James: Are Andrew: In James: The Andrew: Seventh James: Kingdom.” Andrew: Jeremy James: Backed Andrew: Away James: From Andrew: The James: Dog Andrew: And James: Fled. Andrew: Once James: Outside Andrew: He James: Started Andrew: To James: Calm Andrew: Down James: Again. Andrew: He James: Convinced Andrew: Himself James: That Andrew: Nothing James: Strange Andrew: Had James: Happened Andrew: To James: Him Andrew: And James: Proceeded Andrew: To James: Walk Andrew: Down James: The Andrew: High James: Street Andrew: And James: Knocked Andrew: On James: The Andrew: Door James: Of Andrew: The James: Butchers. Andrew: Again James: There Andrew: Was James: No Andrew: Reply James: So Andrew: He James: Pushed Andrew: The James: Door Andrew: Open James: And Andrew: Stepped James: Inside. Andrew: Within, James: There Andrew: Was James: No Andrew: Light. James: In Andrew: The James: Area Andrew: Where James: Meat Andrew: Would James: Be Andrew: Chilled James: There Andrew: Was James: Another Andrew: Dog. James: “What Andrew: Are James: You Andrew: Doing James: Here?” Andrew: Said James: The Andrew: Dog. James: “I'm Andrew: Just…” James: “No!” Andrew: Said James: The Andrew: Dog. James: “This Andrew: Is James: Not Andrew: A James: Place Andrew: For James: You!” Andrew: Jeremy James: Looked Andrew: Confused. James: “Where Andrew: Am James: I?” Andrew: “Go! James: This Andrew: Is James: The Andrew: Kingdom. James: You Andrew: Must James: Leave.” Andrew: Jeremy James: Backed Andrew: Away James: From Andrew: The James: Dog Andrew: Into James: The Andrew: Doorway, James: And Andrew: Stepped James: Back Andrew: Onto James: The Andrew: High James: Street. Andrew: Now James: He Andrew: Was James: Having Andrew: Second James: Thoughts Andrew: About James: The Andrew: Shopping James: Trip Andrew: That James: He Andrew: Had James: Planned Andrew: And James: Walked Andrew: Back James: Towards Andrew: Home. James: Passing Andrew: The James: Police Andrew: Station, James: He Andrew: Went James: To Andrew: The James: Door Andrew: And James: Knocked. Andrew: The James: Door Andrew: Was James: Not Andrew: Locked, James: And Andrew: So James: He Andrew: Went James: Inside. Andrew: Within, James: There Andrew: Was James: No Andrew: Light. James: In Andrew: The James: Cells Andrew: Where James: Prisoners Andrew: Usually James: Resided, Andrew: There James: Was Andrew: A James: Third Andrew: Dog. James: “Seriously!” Andrew: Said James: The Andrew: Dog. James: “What Andrew: Are James: You Andrew: Doing James: Here?” Andrew: Jeremy James: Panicked Andrew: And James: Ran Andrew: At James: The Andrew: Dog. James: “Give Andrew: Me James: Back Andrew: My James: Place!” Andrew: He James: Exclaimed. Andrew: The James: Dog Andrew: Jumped James: Sideways Andrew: And James: Avoided Andrew: Jeremy's James: Grasping, Andrew: And James: Replied, Andrew: “This James: Is Andrew: Your James: Place Andrew: Here.” James: Slamming Andrew: The James: Cell Andrew: Door James: Shut, Andrew: Jeremy James: Collapsed Andrew: Into James: The Andrew: Corner James: And Andrew: Slept. James: The Andrew: Next James: Day Andrew: He James: Awoke Andrew: In James: The Andrew: Cell James: To Andrew: Discover James: Three Andrew: Policemen James: Looking Andrew: At James: Him Andrew: In James: Confusion. Andrew: “What's James: All Andrew: This James: Then?” Andrew: They James: Said Andrew: In James: Unison. Andrew: Jeremy James: Stumbled Andrew: Out James: Into Andrew: The James: Open Andrew: Air James: And Andrew: Saw James: That Andrew: Things James: Were Andrew: Back James: To Andrew: Normal. James: The Andrew: Post James: Office Andrew: Was James: Open, Andrew: The James: Butchers Andrew: Had James: Customers, Andrew: The James: High Andrew: Street James: Was Andrew: Bustling. James: “What Andrew: Happened James: Yesterday?” Andrew: He James: Thought Andrew: As James: He Andrew: Opened James: His Andrew: Front James: Door. Andrew: “I James: Swore Andrew: I…” James: And Andrew: In James: Front Andrew: Of James: Him Andrew: Were James: Three Andrew: Dogs. James: The Andrew: End. James: Peter Andrew: Liked James: Jam Andrew: And James: Toast. Andrew: He James: Regularly Andrew: Ate James: Ten Andrew: Slices James: Of Andrew: Them James: For Andrew: Breakfast. James: His Andrew: Constitution James: Was Andrew: As James: Solid Andrew: As James: A Andrew: House. James: One Andrew: Day James: He Andrew: Ran James: Out Andrew: Of James: Jam Andrew: And James: Had Andrew: To James: Use Andrew: Marmite James: Instead. Andrew: This James: Gummed Andrew: His James: Works Andrew: Up James: And Andrew: He James: Slowly Andrew: Died. James: The Andrew: End. I've been Andrew, and I'm here with James. These stories were recorded without advanced planning and then lightly edited for the discerning listener. Join us next time for more totally made-up tales ...
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