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Ahoy, my friends! Welcome aboard the Afro Tales podcast. Join your Griot, Amon Mazingo, as we embark on an enlightening journey through the rich narratives of Indigenous and African descent cultures in the Americas and the Caribbean. In this episode, we explore the fascinating tale of "The Distribution of Orisha's Powers," where we learn about the divine ruler Olofin and the courageous Obatala, who bravely navigates the mountain to seek help for the Orishas during a time of crisis. Discover how the powers of the Orishas were shared and the significance of each deity's unique gifts. Book: A Treasury of Afro-American Folklore By: Harold Courlander Following the story, Chef shares a delectable recipe for Cuban Churros, a sweet treat inspired by the themes of the episode. Perfect for savoring while reflecting on the blessings we all seek in our lives. Afro Tales Recipe of the week: Cuban Churros https://www.mybigfatcubanfamily.com/2016/07/churros-recipe/ Chapters: (00:00) Welcome aboard the Afroels podcast. Join me as we explore the tales of indigenous people (00:32) Distribution of Orisha's powers Cuban Version (06:20) The Distribution of Orisha's Powers Yoruba Version (17:46) My thoughts (24:34) Cuban Churros (27:49) Until next time Orisha Stories: Obatala's https://www.afrotalescast.com/obatalas-yams/ When the Paths Vanished https://www.afrotalescast.com/when-the-paths-vanished/ Mental Health Phone Number: 988 https://texassuicideprevention.org/ https://www.nami.org/Support-Education/Support-Groups/NAMI-Connection To Support Afro Tales Podcast: Website: https://www.afrotalescast.com YouTube: https://youtube.com/@afrotalescast Podcast Artwork: Artbyshalaye: https://www.instagram.com/artbyshalaye/ Music: Artist: Album: Song: Afrobeat x African x Dancehall x Reggae Type Beat - dope URL: https://pixabay.com/music/afrobeat-afrobeat-x-african-x-dancehall-x-reggae-type-beat-dope-192363/ https://pixabay.com/service/license-summary/ Music: Artist: Album: Song: Salsa Soleada URL: https://pixabay.com/music/folk-salsa-soleada-151637/ https://pixabay.com/service/license-summary/ SFX: https://freesound.org/
Ahoy, my friends! Welcome aboard the Afro Tales podcast. Join your Griot, Amon Mazingo, as we embark on an enlightening journey through the rich narratives of Indigenous and African descent cultures in the Americas and the Caribbean. In this episode, we explore the fascinating tale of "The Distribution of Orisha's Powers," where we learn about the divine ruler Olofin and the courageous Obatala, who bravely navigates the mountain to seek help for the Orishas during a time of crisis. Discover how the powers of the Orishas were shared and the significance of each deity's unique gifts. Book: A Treasury of Afro-American Folklore By: Harold Courlander Following the story, Chef shares a delectable recipe for Cuban Churros, a sweet treat inspired by the themes of the episode. Perfect for savoring while reflecting on the blessings we all seek in our lives. Afro Tales Recipe of the week: Cuban Churros https://www.mybigfatcubanfamily.com/2016/07/churros-recipe/ Chapters: (00:00) Welcome aboard the Afroels podcast. Join me as we explore the tales of indigenous people (00:32) Distribution of Orisha's powers Cuban Version (06:20) The Distribution of Orisha's Powers Yoruba Version (17:46) My thoughts (24:34) Cuban Churros (27:49) Until next time Orisha Stories: Obatala's https://www.afrotalescast.com/obatalas-yams/ When the Paths Vanished https://www.afrotalescast.com/when-the-paths-vanished/ Mental Health Phone Number: 988 https://texassuicideprevention.org/ https://www.nami.org/Support-Education/Support-Groups/NAMI-Connection To Support Afro Tales Podcast: Website: https://www.afrotalescast.com YouTube: https://youtube.com/@afrotalescast Podcast Artwork: Artbyshalaye: https://www.instagram.com/artbyshalaye/ Music: Artist: Album: Song: Afrobeat x African x Dancehall x Reggae Type Beat - dope URL: https://pixabay.com/music/afrobeat-afrobeat-x-african-x-dancehall-x-reggae-type-beat-dope-192363/ https://pixabay.com/service/license-summary/ Music: Artist: Album: Song: Salsa Soleada URL: https://pixabay.com/music/folk-salsa-soleada-151637/ https://pixabay.com/service/license-summary/ SFX: https://freesound.org/
On this episode of the Story of the gods podcast, we unravel a tale of divine intrigue and mistaken identity. Set in the ancient land of Ile-Ife, the story begins with Obatala, the revered god of the earth and humans, embarking on a journey to visit Sango, the formidable god of thunder and lightning. Despite warnings from the diviner Orunmila, Obatala's determination leads him into a perilous trap. Along the way, Obatala encounters Esu, a notorious trickster god known for his mischievous schemes. Esu's cunning manipulations leave Obatala's pristine garments stained and his reputation tarnished. When Obatala finally reaches Sango's home, his appearance and possession of Sango's horse lead to his wrongful imprisonment. Will Obatala ever be freed from his unjust imprisonment? Can the land be saved from the brink of disaster? Join us as we uncover the shocking truth behind Obatala's ordeal and witness the epic showdown between the gods.
Habia una vez un gran orisha (dios) Obatala, Este dios era el creador de la humanidad, y un día decidió visitar a Shangó, el orishá o dios del trueno y del relámpago, que vivía y reinaba en la ciudad de Oyo.Obatala no usaba tambores que anunciaran su presencia. En cambio vestía de un blanco tan absoluto y tan perfecto que todos lo reconocían a distancia por su brillo. Le llamaban «El rey vestido de blanco».Por eso, cuando su esposa supo que su marido quería partir de viaje para visitar a su amigo Shangó, su primera preocupación fue que la ropa de Obatala estuviera impecable. Sin embargo, esa noche tuvo un mal sueño.-Obatala, no deberías ir a Oyo -le dijo a la mañana siguiente a su marido. Soñé que tus prendas blancas no se podían limpiar. Las manchas parecían desaparecer cuando las sumergía en el agua, pero apenas se secaba la ropa, se notaban otra vez.-Pero ahora estás despierta y mi ropa está impecable -dijo Obatala. Y yo me voy a Oyo.Sin embargo, alguna duda le había quedado, porque decidió consultar a Orunmila, el orishá de las profecías.Orunmila arrojó sobre la bandeja unas nueces de palma y, al ver cómo caían, frunció el ceño.-No vayas, Obatala. La desgracia te espera en Oyo.-No puedo sospechar de mi amigo Shangó -dijo Obatala, enojado.Y vestido con sus blanquísimas prendas, comenzó a caminar hacia Oyo. Por el camino se encontró al orishá Eshu, que estaba sentado bajo un árbol junto a una vasija llena de aceite de palma.-Por favor, Obatala -le pidió. ¿Podrías ayudarme? Necesito que me pongas la vasija sobre la cabeza para poder llevármela. Yo no tengo bastante fuerza.Pero cuando Obatala levantó la vasija, unas gotas de aceite mancharon su ropa, de modo que tuvo que volver a su casa para cambiarse antes de reemprender el camino.Por segunda vez se encontró con Eshu. Ahora la vasija era más grande y el pobre Eshu parecía desesperado. Obatala, famoso por su generosidad y sus buenas acciones, lo ayudó una vez más. Por supuesto, volvió a mancharse con aceite y tuvo que volver a su casa.La tercera vez que se encontró en Eshu, la vasija de aceite era gigantesca.-Eshu, tendrás que disculparme, pero estoy un poco apurado -le dijo. Las manchas en su ropa lo tenían preocupado. Eran un mal presagio.-¿Te niegas a ayudarme? -gritó Eshu, enojadísimo.Eshu era famoso por las locuras que era capaz de hacer cuando lo dominaba la ira. Ahora, empujando con las dos manos el enorme recipiente, lo hizo caer, manchando más que nunca la blanca ropa de Obatala.Esta vez el creador de la humanidad decidió seguir adelante, aun con su ropa manchada de aceite. Caminó y caminó a la velocidad que solo un orishá puede darle a sus pasos. Hasta que, en las cercanías de la ciudad de Oyo, vio un hermosísimo caballo blanco que pastaba suelto entre un grupo de arbustos.«Este caballo solo puede ser de Shangó» pensó Obatala. «Se ha perdido y lo deben de estar buscando. Se lo llevaré de vuelta». Y tomando al caballo por la brida, siguió su camino.En ese momento apareció un grupo de servidores de Shangó que estaban buscando al caballo. Cuando vieron que Obatala lo tenía, se lanzaron sobre él y comenzaron a golpearlo brutalmente.-¡Este es el ladrón, que reciba su merecido! -gritaban.Golpeándolo sin parar, sin escucharlo, ni prestar atención a sus protestas, los criados llevaron a Obatala a la cárcel de Oyo y allí lo encerraron en un calabozo. Con su ropa toda sucia de aceite, ¿quién iba a creer que él era de verdad el famoso rey vestido de blanco?El tiempo pasaba y Obatala seguía encerrado. Shangó nada sabía de lo que había sucedido porque ninguno de sus servidores consideró que se tratara de un asunto de tanta importancia como para llegar al gran orishá. La bondad de Obatala estaba llegando a sus límites. Harto de ser maltratado, harto de que nadie lo escuchara, decidió que era hora de usar sus poderes. Y
Aganju has nothing to do, but Obatala is always busy. Is it right for Aganju to become a little jealous
This week we explore Obatala Father of the White Cloth References: Cuoco, Alex. African Narratives of Orishas, Spirits, and other Deities Neimark, Philip. Way of the Orisha Fatunmbi, Fa'lokun. Ebora (The Metaphysical Foundations of Ifa Book 2) OYEDEJI, Dr. Yinka. Yoruba gods & legends: Stories of how different Orishas acquired powers and became deities in Yoruba Land!
Obatala worries about all the injustices in the world but sometimes it can be too much. References: “Osogbo : speaking to the spirits of misfortune / Ócha'ni Lele.”
What could possibly go wrong when you are visiting a friend? Obatala decides to visit Shango in Oyo despite several warnings. Reference: Yourba Gods & Legends by Dr. Yinka Oyedeji
Obatala is the Orisha elemental force of nature. The consciousness of spiritual awareness, creations, and peace. Patience is his virtue as well as persistent efforts towards all spiritual expansion and growth. If you resonate with this message them you maybe a child of Obatala. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/universolwisdom/support
Ancient teachings on the wisdom of Orixa Obatala as a spiritual gateway to elemental energy. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/universolwisdom/support
For this years Black History Month, here at Demyth HQ we wanted to continue on the story from last year. We are also curious with the inclusion of flood myths throughout mythology.This myth continues the Yoruba story of Obatala's adventures with humans and Olokun's revenge.
In this episode of the Biz Bruja Podcast, host Vanessa Codorniu interviews Cynthia Santiago-Borbon, a healer, licensed psychotherapist, and priestess of Obatala. Cynthia shares her journey of ancestral reclamation and how her ancestors have shaped her work in mental health and well-being. She discusses the importance of healing from societal conditioning and trauma, and how connecting with her ancestors helped her heal and embrace her true self. Cynthia also explains how the Orishas, the deities of the West African Yoruba tradition, show up in her business and provide guidance and support. Some takeaways: Connecting with our ancestors can help us heal from societal conditioning and trauma. The Orishas, deities of the Yoruba tradition, can guide and support us in our personal and professional lives. Praying to our ancestors and the Orishas can provide guidance and clarity in our journey. It is important to approach the Orishas and other spiritual traditions with respect and honor. BIO: Cynthia Santiago-Borbon is a healer, licensed psychotherapist, transformational coach, spirituality teacher, empath, and priestess of Obatala. With over two decades of expertise in the mental health and well-being space, Cynthia has supported thousands of clients in liberating themselves from societal conditioning and intergenerational trauma. She provides various services, including private coaching, group coaching, workshops, and retreats. To learn more about Cynthia Santiago-Borbon and her work, visit her website at Website: https://www.cynthiasantiagoborbon.com Timestamp Summary 0:00:01 Introduction to the podcast and the guest, Cynthia Santiago-Borbon 0:03:21 How Cynthia's ancestors shaped her and her sacred work 0:07:31 Patterns Cynthia needed to break ancestrally 0:11:42 Importance of accepting oneself and embracing beauty 0:12:33 Gifts Cynthia leaned into with her ancestors and lineage 0:13:18 Cynthia's realization of her gift to help others heal and empower themselves 0:14:50 Cynthia's decision to start her own business 0:18:03 Cynthia's introduction to the Orishas and her spiritual awakening 0:20:22 The importance of reciprocity and honoring the Orishas 0:23:21 The Orishas' connection to nature and how they can support us 0:25:18 How the Orishas show up in our business 0:26:08 Cynthia's guidance from Obatala for the next phase of her business 0:26:52 Cynthia feels guided by the Orisha in her business. 0:28:00 Oshun, the Orisha of creativity and community. 0:29:08 Getting guidance from Orisha readings for business decisions. 0:31:14 Trusting guides, angels, and ancestors in business ventures. 0:31:46 How to connect with the Orisha tradition. 0:34:30 Praying to ancestors and connecting with nature. 0:36:03 Oya, the Orisha of transformation and change. 0:37:47 Respecting and honoring deities from other cultures. 0:38:31 Practicing reciprocity with deities and traditions. 0:38:52 Importance of not appropriating and taking without giving back. 0:39:19 Cynthia Santiago-Borbon's contact information 0:40:08 Vanessa Codorniu's appreciation for Cynthia 0:40:43 Sacred Pause Retreat in November 0:41:12 Gratitude to ancestors and Orishas 0:41:21 Farewell to listeners #reclaimingintuition #embracingdiversity #healing #healingjourney #ancestralpatterns #business #authenticity #psychicmediumprofessional #clinicalhypnotist #energyhealer #spirituality #yoruba #orishas #ancestors #cynthiasantiagoborbon #ancestrallyrootedbusiness #soulbusinessmentor #bizbrujapodcast #bruja
Today we head to Cuba. We meet a hunter and his family. At this time there is no moon or stars in the sky and animals reign supreme. Trying to keep warm they must get fire from the tiger. How will this end for the family? Who if any will remain? Only one way to find out. Come take a listen. Book: Afro-Cuban Folktales By Lydia Carbrera Chef, has served up a beautiful breakfast. We are having Tortilla de Platano Maduro Frito. This is a pleasure to make in the Galley just for you and I hope you enjoy it. Afro Tales Recipe of the week: https://hispanickitchen.com/recipes/tortilla-de-platano-maduro-frito-sweet-plantain-omelet/ Info on Mutism http://www.healthofchildren.com/M/Mutism.html https://specialeducationnotes.co.in/Mutism.htm Cuban Stories The Monkey Woman https://www.afrotalescast.com/the-monkey-woman/ Walo Wila https://www.afrotalescast.com/walo-wila/ Obatala's Yams https://www.afrotalescast.com/obatalas-yams/ Eya https://www.afrotalescast.com/eya/ Soyan https://www.afrotalescast.com/soyan/ Mental Health Texas https://texassuicideprevention.org/ https://www.nami.org/Support-Education/Support-Groups/NAMI-Connection To Support Afro Tales Podcast: Website: https://www.afrotalescast.com YouTube: https://youtube.com/@afrotalescast Podcast Artwork: Artbyshalaye: https://instagram.com/artbyshalaye?igshid=18dz8daavtsv6 Music: Artist- JuliusH Album- Cuban Piano Music Song- Son Montuno — https://pixabay.com/music/world-son-montuno-cuban-piano-music-1309/ SFX: https://freesound.org/
The full title of today's episode is: “They thought they buried me; They did not know I am a seed” In this community conversation from June 2023, SAND co-founders Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo host Bayo Akomolafe and Chief Oluwo Fayemi peeling back the layers of history and tap into the wellspring of resilience that resides within us all. Weaving Bayo's wisdom and Chief Oluwo Obafemi's ancestral knowledge, they enture into this mystical landscape, navigating the intricacies of existence, embracing the profound beauty of the unfolding journey. Bayo Akomolafe (Ph.D.), rooted with the Yoruba people in a more-than-human world, is the father to Alethea and Kyah, the grateful life-partner to Ije, son and brother. A widely celebrated international speaker, posthumanist thinker, poet, teacher, public intellectual, essayist, and author of two books, These Wilds Beyond our Fences: Letters to My Daughter on Humanity's Search for Home (North Atlantic Books) and We Will Tell our Own Story: The Lions of Africa Speak, Bayo Akomolafe is the Founder of The Emergence Network and host of the online postactivist course, ‘We Will Dance with Mountains'. He currently lectures at Pacifica Graduate Institute, California and University of Vermont, Burlington, Vermont. He sits on the Board of many organizations including Science and Non-Duality (US) and Ancient Futures (Australia). In July 2022, Dr. Akomolafe was appointed the inaugural Global Senior Fellow of University of California's (Berkeley) Othering and Belonging Institute. He has also been appointed Senior Fellow for The New Institute in Hamburg, Germany. He is the recipient of the New Thought Leadership Award 2021 and the Excellence in Ethnocultural Psychotherapy Award by the African Mental Health Summit 2022. Chief Oluwo Obafemi Fayemi Epega is a world-renowned Babalawo and the founder of O.I.D.S.I. (Obafemi Institute for the Divine & Universal Study of Ifa). He was initiated as a priest of Obatala in 2004, and received his Tefa in 2005. He strongly believes that the restoration and preservation of African divine sciences and traditions can restore psychological balance and personal empowerment to all people. A lecturer, teacher and healer and the author of Who is Sambo?, Baba Femi has facilitated Ifa workshops all over the world. He has been invited to share his knowledge and insight on countless radio shows, major universities and colleges. In addition to overseeing more than 400 ceremonies and rituals, Baba Femi has either directly facilitated, or served as the principal liaison for the initiations of more than 50 Ifa and Olorisha priests. With the blessings of Olodumare, his ancestors, and Ifa, this life has allowed him to fully embrace and experience that which his heart has chosen. He is proud to be an African American man, native Houstonian, descendant of slaves, priest of Ifa, teacher, author, mentor, son, a friend to many, a loving husband, and most importantly, an honorable father. We invite you to connect further with Bayo Akomolafe in an immersive recording from the SAND co-presentation Three Black Men Trauma, Ritual & the Promise of the Monstrous live in Los Angeles from June 2023 with your guides: Bayo Akomolafe, Orland Bishop, and Resmaa Menakem for nearly six hours of talks, video, and explorations.
We say “Obatala, Asé!” while pouring libations to the gods ands ancestors. Sage, Incense & Libations clear the air. What Gods & Goddeses are on your playlist?
My journey to owning my true self was a talk with Obatala. Coming out horribly at 16 still left scars at 31. I want to talk it about it and let people that in Orisha practices you can come as you are!
Welcome back everyone! A new season, new episode, is ready for your collective hearts and minds. The Unfolding: Presented by The Loveland Foundation host, Miriam Starobin, is joined by Dr. Shena Young.Dr. Shena Young (she/her) is a licensed body centered psychologist-healer, artist, and Iyalorisa of Osun and Obatala in the Isese tradition of Ifa. affectionately known as dr shena, she intimately works with folks of the global majority, anchored in the pillars of remembrance, sovereignty, authenticity, intuition, and self-determination. she holds space internationally for individuals, couples, groups, and organizations committed to the ritual of calling themselves back into their bodies as a freedom practice. she owns a private practice, embodied truth healing & psychological services, rooted in Los Angeles, CA where she offers mind-body-heart-spirit care in healing from sexual, racial, intergenerational, and ancestral traumas. in fall 2023 her debut book - body rites: an embodied healing workbook for Black survivors of sexual trauma will be available as published by WW Norton & Co. The Unfolding: Presented by The Loveland Foundation podcast is an additional resource not only to the public, but to our therapy fund cohort members. The Loveland Foundation therapy fund and resources are only made possible through support from our community. If you enjoy the podcast please go to the link in our bio to donate.Support the show
This is my first time having a returning guest on the Life Science Success Podcast. Trivia Frazier, PhD, MBA sat down with me to give me an update on Obatala Sciences. They are currently expanding their commercial team and overall footprint. It was such a blast to sit down with someone who has been on the show previously.
Brief summary of episode:Dr. Kokahvah Zauditu-Selassie is a retired Professor of English at Coppin State University in the Humanities Department. She earned her Doctorate in the Humanities from Clark Atlanta University. She is the author of “I Got a Home in Dat Rock: Memory, Orisa, and Yoruba Spiritual Identity in African American Literature” in Orisa: Yoruba Gods and Spiritual Identity in Africa and the Diaspora, as well as several journal articles including, “Women Who Know Things: African Epistemologies, Ecocriticism, and Female Spiritual Authority in the Novels of Toni Morrison, Dancing Between Two Realms: Sacred Resistance and Remembrance in African American Culture. She is also the author of an award-winning book of critical essays titled, African Spiritual Traditions in the Novels of Toni Morrison a 2009 publication of the University Press of Florida. Her research focuses on highlighting ritual acts of memory and resistance. A priest of Obàtálá in the Lukumi Yoruba tradition, she is a descendant of a matrilineal group of Vodun believers from New Orleans, Louisiana. Currently she is studying the traditions of Osain in the Lukumi system and in other global African cultures, as well as indigenous systems in the Americas. Her current publication is a novel titled, The Second Line. She can be found on social media at @comptonauthor. The Truth In This ArtThe Truth In This Art is a podcast interview series supporting vibrancy and development of Baltimore & beyond's arts and culture. Mentioned in this episode:Dr. Kokahvah Zauditu-SelassiePHOTO CREDIT: SCHAUN CHAMPIONTo find more amazing stories from the artist and entrepreneurial scenes in & around Baltimore, check out my episode directory. Stay in TouchNewsletter sign-upSupport my podcastShareable link to episode ★ Support this podcast ★
Ever Velasquez is an artist and curandera/santera.Ever's performance /photo series Baños and collage series use the visual language of Yoruba religious culture to explore the legacy of colonialism and its interweaving with the Lucumi religion, which she practices with a personal look into both personal spiritual look of ancestral self- care.The inspiration for the works were sparked by dreams and spiritual divination. Ever is fully initiated crowned priestess of Obatala and OshúnShe studies so she can preserve and defend this knowledge that has survived colonization while her continued work cultivates traditions for generations to inherent. While resisting the prejudices that continue to battle to this day from colonial religions .
Había una vez en lo que hoy conocemos como Nigeria un mundo Yoruba en el que solo existía el cielo, un inmenso mar que cubría todo y en un gran pantano con algunos seres animales. El dios Obatala, viendo la desolación del mundo, pensó que seria bueno mejorar la tierra con otras formas de vida y con una superficie solida donde pudieran vivir los orichas que representan la diversidad de dioses de los Yoruba. Durante esos primeros tiempos solo la diosa Olokun vivía en la tierra gobernando el inmenso mar ya que los otros dioses vivían en el cielo acompañando a el dios máximo Olorum. El dios obatala se acerco a Olorum y le pidió que le diera el poder para viajar a la tierra y crear tierra para vivir. El dios Olorum, acepto y envió a obatalá donde el dios Orunmila El dios de la sabiduría y la adivinación para que le diera las instrucciones de como crear la tierra firme y sus habitantes. El dios Orunmila recibió a Obatala y le explico que para crear tierra firme en los dominios acuáticos de Olokun tendría que conseguir algunos elementos importantes. Para ello tendría que conseguir una cadena dorada que colgaría del cielo y asi descender sobre las aguas sin caer en ellas. Luego tomando una concha de caracol llena de arena que debería verterla sobre el mar lentamente hasta que se formara un pequeño montículo de arena. Luego debería poner una paloma y una gallina para que ellas, con sus patas escarbaran la arena y asi esparcieran hacia todas las direcciones la arena formando con esto valles y montañas. Y asi lo hizo obatala, bajo por la cadena de oro con una concha llena de arena, una gallina y una paloma y cumpliendo las instrucciones vio como de las patas de la gallina y la paloma comenzaba a formarse extensiones de tierra sobre el mar. Y luego obatala salto sobre las tierra formada y la llamo ife. El reino de la tierra seca. Para celebrar el nacimiento de la nueva tierra seca y para permitir que otros seres vivieran allí, Obatala, tomo una nuez de palmera y la planto. Y de allí surgio la primera palmera en la tierra y esta palmera dio frutos y sus frutos cayeron a la tierra fértil y otras palmeras crecieron formando un primer bosque de palmeras. Olorum envió a su sirviente el chamaleon Agemo para que supervisara los avances de Obatala cuando Agemo llego el dios se quejo de que no había suficiente luz para que los bosques crecieran cubriendo toda la tierra seca. El camaleón llevo la queja a dios supremo Olorum y este viendo los progresos de Obatala, creo el sol para que con sus rayos y su calor le ayudaran a las plantas a crecer y multiplicarse. Y el mundo Yoruma se creo, pero todavía faltaba algo. No había seres que recorrieran y vivieran en esas tierras. Asi que Obatala creo multiples figuras de hombres y mujeres con un poco de arcilla y le pidió al dios supremo Olorum que les diera el aliento de vida. Este soplo sobre ellos y el mundo yoruma se lleno de hombres y mujeres. Obatala se sintió feliz con la creación final del hombre, pero Eshu el espíritu embaucador le ofrecio vino de palma para que celebrara y este gustoso lo tomo. Pero tomo tanto que se emborracho y comenzó a crear figuras con miembros retorcidos, espaldas jorobadas y otras muchas deformaciones. Y cuando Olorum les dio vida, estos seres comenzaron a vagar por la tierra con sus deformación. Obatala al despertar de su borrachera vio estos seres y sintió pena por ellos y arrepentido decidió convertirse en el protector y defensor de aquellos hombres con discapacidades. Y cuentan los yorumas que hasta el día de hoy todo ser con alguna discapacidad es protegido por el dios obatala. Después de terminar su labor Obatala regreso a la cadena de oro que colgaba de el cielo y regreso a el para desde allí vigilar su creación. Olokun la diosa del mar se
Disclaimer: The name of the Orisha Obatala is pronounced differently in many areas and I use the 2 most common pronunciations in this story. Also, the mention of intercourse is present. In this Cuban Tale, Obatala is an Orisha that loves her yams and is looking for someone to help her with her crops. She also possesses and beautiful drum that is coveted by another Orisha who will try anything to take it from her. Will the drum affect her plantation, or will she fulfill her desire? Press play and find out. Book: A Treasury of Afro-American Folklore Compiled by Harold Courlander Chef has served up for your enjoyment a delicious Cuban Yucca. This is a pleasure to make in the Galley just for you and I hope you enjoy. Afro Tales Recipe of the week: Cuban Yucca https://www.quericavida.com/recipes/traditional-cuban-yucca/02bef494-b839-48ff-aae5-8164d76f0a8a To Support Afro Tales Podcast: Website: https://www.podpage.com/afrotalescast/ Podchaser: https://www.podchaser.com/AfroTalesPodcast Voice Message: https://anchor.fm/afrotales/message Email: afrotalespodcast@yahoo.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/afrotalescast Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/afrotalespodcast Teespring: https://teespring.com/stores/afrotalespodcast TeePublic: https://www.teepublic.com/user/afro-tales Twitter (@afrotalescast): https://twitter.com/afrotalescast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/afrotalescast/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Afrotalescast Podcast Artwork: Artbyshalaye: https://instagram.com/artbyshalaye?igshid=18dz8daavtsv6 Music: Artist: John Bartmann Album: Hot Equatorial Night Song: Cuban Heat https://freemusicarchive.org/music/John_Bartmann/hot-equatorial-night/cuban-heat --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/afrotalescast/message
Disclaimer: The name of the Orisha Obatala is pronounced differently in many areas and I use the 2 most common pronunciations in this story. Also, the mention of intercourse is present. In this Cuban Tale, Obatala is an Orisha that loves her yams and is looking for someone to help her with her crops. She also possesses and beautiful drum that is coveted by another Orisha who will try anything to take it from her. Will the drum affect her plantation, or will she fulfill her desire? Press play and find out. Book: A Treasury of Afro-American Folklore Compiled by Harold Courlander Chef has served up for your enjoyment a delicious Cuban Yucca. This is a pleasure to make in the Galley just for you and I hope you enjoy. Afro Tales Recipe of the week: Cuban Yucca https://www.quericavida.com/recipes/traditional-cuban-yucca/02bef494-b839-48ff-aae5-8164d76f0a8a To Support Afro Tales Podcast: Website: https://www.podpage.com/afrotalescast/ Email: afrotalespodcast@yahoo.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/afrotalescast Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/afrotalespodcast TeePublic: https://www.teepublic.com/user/afro-tales Twitter (@afrotalescast): https://twitter.com/afrotalescast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/afrotalescast/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Afrotalescast Podcast Artwork: Artbyshalaye: https://instagram.com/artbyshalaye?igshid=18dz8daavtsv6 Music: Artist: John Bartmann Album: Hot Equatorial Night Song: Cuban Heat https://freemusicarchive.org/music/John_Bartmann/hot-equatorial-night/cuban-heat SFX: https://freesound.org/
Full video: https://youtu.be/8SdNEC6vMzY . Chief Oluwo Obafemi Fayemi Epega (Baba Femi) is a world-renowned Babalawo and the founder of O.I.D.S.I. (Obafemi Institute for the Divine & Universal Study of Ifa). He was initiated as a priest of Obatala in January 2004, and received his Tefa in February 2005 from the late Oluwo Dr. Afolabi Epega at the Epega Compound in Akure, Ondo State, Nigeria. He strongly believes that the restoration and preservation of African divine sciences and traditions can restore psychological balance and personal empowerment to all people. In this talk, he shares the strategies and steps to allow us to make Generational Change. https://www.obafemi.org/ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/get-on-code/message
YOU WILL NOT FIND YOUR JESUS IN THE KING JAMES VERSION BIBLEAs I am traveling down the rabbit trails of Bible history. There comes a point when the evidence is super clear and you have to pause to decide how to move forward.I launched Season 2 of Black Church with studies from the Torah. When I discovered how much information was intentionally omitted. At first, I was angry and hurt and I experienced a moment of religious trauma.My questions of the Bible led me to question the existence of Jesus. But I have to follow my heart and my heart says that there was a Hebrew person who shared a message of love, unity, and the importance of the transcendence of consciousness.This led me to explore the ideas of the Hebrew person that was outside the KJV and the information is not only fascinating, I will be exploring it on Black Church this Season.In this episode, I explore logic, belief, judgment, and wisdom. IFA says that Obatala weaved reality using Knowledge, Wisdom, and Understanding.It is our responsibility to use all three of these tools to form our beliefs. I want this season to be about educating you and giving you the information you need to align logic with your beliefs!In this podcast I will share an uncomfortable life lesson that I learned about being judgemental, I will share some bible history with you, and we will explore FAITH as it relates to our destiny.My attempt is to give you as much historical data about the bible so that you can make a decision to believe ideas that will serve you!You'll hear from some of my mentors including my Babalawo, Baba Odu Shola of @fafore16 explaining what FATE is and Aunt Carla from @redsoulflower as the voice of my Egun encouraging me to educate and stay away from Judgement. It's going to be a packed 90-minutes.So get your headphones, get a notebook, and ENJOY.This video includes music & clips I do not own: Donny Arcade “Return of Enki” featuring TXXD Villian. [https://youtu.be/TaI4qM4kRxA].Today's lesson comes from the History Channel.com:[https://www.history.com/.amp/topics/religion/bible][https://www.history.com/news/king-james-bible-most-popular]Today's video also Includes clips from The National Geographic “The Great Courses Subscription Collection: The History and Archeology of the Bible on Amazon Prime. Instructor: Jean-Pierre Isbouts.
In this episode, we celebrate Day 1 of Kwanzaa [swahili for "first fruits"] - a gateway marking time of connection, community, reflection, rest and forward visioning. Kwanzaa was founded by members of the Black liberation/pan-Africanism movement of the 1960's with Dr. Maulana Karenga credited as the pioneer of the holiday becoming official across the United States and the African Diaspora. Regardless of if you are listening when this was recorded in December 2021 or some time after, know that for us at adé PROJECT these are the values we stand ten toes down on 24/7/365. Journey with us for the full 7 days across 7 episodes or hit the replay for the chakra, orisha or Kwanzaa principle calling to you! ### This is a special holiday presentation in honor of Kwanzaa, curated by Cortina Jenelle, host and founder of House of SOLEIL as well as the coop org adé PROJECT. For more info on Nguzo Saba, principles of Kwanzaa or offer a love offering in support of our Black liberation work, please visit https://www.theadeproject.org. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/sojourn-of-light/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/sojourn-of-light/support
Malika Hadley Freydberg- SOREN LIT Fall Issue 2021 Malika Hadley Freydberg is a multi-medium performance and visual artist based in New Orleans, Louisiana. She's a four time national slam poet, and has graced the final stage in two of those four competitions. She's had a fascination with magick and Conjure Women since she read “Mama Day” by Gloria Naylor at age 9, and became determined to become a woman of magick from that day forward. She works as a tour guide, sharing the history and folklore of Southern Louisiana, which has informed most of her work since 2016.Malika is a Sode in Ifa, an Olorisa of Oya upon completion of initiation at Temple Yemoja in Ibadan, Nigeria in 2019, and Priestess of Osun and Obatala in Louisiana Plantation Vodou as of July 2021. She's been an eclectic Conjurer since she began praying to the moon at 14. She's read tarot cards for 22 years, and cowries for 8. She is also a proud member of the choir at First Grace United Methodist Church in Midcity New Orleans; she sees this as the honoring of as many branches of her ancestry as possible.Malika holds a B.A. in Arts Management-Music from Bennett College in Greensboro, NC (HBCU PRIDE!), and a Masters in Music Education, focus in Choral Conducting and Ethnomusicology from Georgia State. She lives in a house with a purple door with her wife and three cats~ the culmination of every love-obsessed queer witch, in her opinion. SOREN LIT FOUNDING EDITOR & PODCAST HOST: Melodie J. Rodgers www.sorenlit.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/melodie-rodgers/message
Unlimited Opinions is back! In Season 2, we're reading Myths & Legends, a compendium of world mythologies edited by Jake Jackson. In this episode we look at Sub-Saharan African myths of Creation, especially the Yoruba stories of Olorun, Olokun, Obatala, and how they created the world and humanity. We also look at various stories of Death, including the Krache story of the giant Owuo and his ever-blinking eye. We also discuss how darkness was unleashed according to the Kono, the Dahomean pantheon, and the Kakiru story of Wanjiru. Join us as we look at the modern-day relevance of ancient myths and what we can learn about them in the first episode of Season 2 of Unlimited Opinions! Follow us on Twitter! @UlmtdOpinions
When I spoke to @anitakopacz about her new novel, I had only read a few pages, but I knew Shallow Waters would be a book I would love. This book reminds me of books by two of my favorite authors, Tananrive Due and Octavia Butler. It is very similar to Children of Blood and Bone by Nigerian author Tomi Adeyemi. I love how modern day myths are being written about African characters. The Creator, expressing as our African ancestors, are speaking in multiple ways. Our collective consciousness is seeing ourselves as powerful and supported by the mysticism that is the nature of this Universe. We have been taught to ignore it. We have done so at our peril. Shallow Waters, gives us a myth to help us conceive of ourselves differently. Kopacz is Spiritual Psychologist as well as an Artist and healer. Our conversation was so rich that I invited her to come back on the show to discuss the healing work she is doing at her upcoming retreat. Anita talks about the ritual she used to petition Yemaya and how the energy of the ocean responded and much more! Accolades for Shallow Waters, A Novel Spellbinding...A captivating debut.” —Harper's Bazaar In this stirring and lyrical debut novel—perfect for fans of The Water Dancer and the Legacy of Orïsha series—the Yoruba deity of the sea, Yemaya, is brought to vivid life as she discovers the power of Black resilience, love, and feminine strength in antebellum America. Shallow Waters imagines Yemaya, an Orïsha—a deity in the religion of Africa's Yoruba people—cast into mid-1800s America. We meet Yemaya as a young woman, still in the care of her mother and not yet fully aware of the spectacular power she possesses to protect herself and those she holds dear. The journey laid out in Shallow Waters sees Yemaya confront the greatest evils of this era; transcend time and place in search of Obatala, a man who sacrifices his own freedom for the chance at hers; and grow into the powerful woman she was destined to become. We travel alongside Yemaya from her native Africa and on to the “New World,” with vivid pictures of life for those left on the outskirts of power in the nascent Americas. Yemaya realizes the fighter within, travels the Underground Railroad in search of the mysterious stranger Obatala, and crosses paths with icons of our history on the road to freedom. Shallow Waters is a nourishing work of ritual storytelling from promising debut author Anita Kopacz. Anita Kopacz is an award-winning writer and spiritual advisor. She is the former Editor-in-Chief of Heart & Soul Magazine and Managing Editor of BeautyCents Magazine. When she is not writing, you can find her on the dance floor or traveling the world with her children. Anita lives in New York City with her family. Host Sanaa Green is Spiritual Royalty, an Indigo Child, descendant of Madagascar and Lemuria, Reiki Practitioner, Ecopyschologist, Community Activist, Environmental Educator, Youth Development Coach, Teacher of Belly Dance for Earth & Soul and Spiritual Thinker. She is also a graduate of Howard University and a native of Detroit, Michigan. Contact her at Sanaa@centerherpower.com, www.centerherpower.com OR Instagram@centerherpowerpodcast Please subscribe, like or follow @centerherpowerpodcast, leave a message on Anchor, donate! #black healer #biracial #empath #goddess #white allies #black woman #ancestral healing #ancestors #Yemaya #Yemaja #indigenous #ocean #water --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/sanaa-green0/message
Anita Kopacz is an award-winning writer and spiritual advisor. She is the former Editor-in-Chief of Heart & Soul Magazine and Managing Editor of BeautyCents Magazine. When she is not writing, you can find her on the dance floor or traveling the world with her children. Anita lives in New York City with her family. Anita's book Shallow Waters imagines Yemaya, an Orïsha—a deity in the religion of Africa's Yoruba people—cast into mid-1800s America. We meet Yemaya as a young woman, still in the care of her mother and not yet fully aware of the spectacular power she possesses to protect herself and those she holds dear. The journey laid out in Shallow Waters sees Yemaya confront the greatest evils of this era; transcend time and place in search of Obatala, a man who sacrifices his own freedom for the chance at hers; and grow into the powerful woman she was destined to become. We travel alongside Yemaya from her native Africa and on to the “New World,” with vivid pictures of life for those left on the outskirts of power in the nascent Americas.
Obatala defends the world against death and destruction from his vengeful sister, Olokun, orisha of the sea. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
This Yoruba tale from West Africa tells of Obatala, a restless Orisha whose boundless creativity led him to create the world as we know it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
https://linktr.ee/HoodMysticHOOD IN THE MORNING | Topics: are you too educated to be spiritual, venus conjunct mars, Obatala, and understanding CHAOS THEORY and More... | The Hood Mystic brings you Astrology, Currents, and Cosmic Events like no other. It's time to Tap In!!!https://www.thecaterpillarroom.com/#HoodInTheMorning#ShadowWork#twerkforthekyballion
Oba Obatala, Obatayese, Obanla, Orishala, Father of our people, father of the sacred grove of the forest, the sculptor of our heads of higher consciousness. Thank you for your beauty in the world. I would like to give thanks to the sacred powers of the sacred spirits of the wise ancestors of our lineages. May the powers of the spirits within guide you towards your destiny of light. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/fusionz-holistics/support
HOOD IN THE MORNING | Topics: Mercury Retrograde, Obatala, Oshun, Ecstasy, Purity and More... | The Hood Mystic brings you Astrology, Currents, and Cosmic Events like no other. It's time to Tap In!!!https://linktr.ee/HoodMystichttps://www.thecaterpillarroom.com/#HoodInTheMorning#ShadowWork#twerkforthekyballion00:00 Show Starts4:30 Show Intro14:54 Show Overview25:21 Moon in Obatala33:54 Ecstasy in Retrograde | Mercury in Oshun50:13 Mars/Pollux Trine Neptune1:00:37 Going the Extra Mile on the Road Less Travelled
How to make Generational Change, A talk from Baba Femi. Chief Oluwo Obafemi Fayemi Epega is a world-renowned Babalawo and the founder of O.I.D.S.I. (Obafemi Institute for the Divine & Universal Study of Ifa). He was initiated as a priest of Obatala in January 2004, and received his Tefa in February 2005 from the late Oluwo Dr. Afolabi Epega at the Epega Compound in Akure, Ondo State, Nigeria. He strongly believes that the restoration and preservation of African divine sciences and traditions can restore psychological balance and personal empowerment to all people. Born Stephen Benjamin Clark Mackey on December 30, 1957 in Houston, TX, Chief Oluwo Obafemi Fayemi Epega is the fifth child of Vivian and Fletcher Mackey, Sr., and the father of four boys: Stephen Jr., Corey, Sheldon and Jordan. Baba Femi is the author of the book entitled “Who is Sambo?”, and has also established a substantial YouTube presence for himself via Ifa-related lectures and classes over the years. He has been a diligent scholar of, as well as an active practitioner of Ifa for more than a decade. As a lecturer, teacher and healer, Baba Femi has facilitated Ifa workshops all over the world, including Mexico, Australia, Brazil, Europe and the Caribbean. He has been invited to share his knowledge and insight on countless radio shows, as well as on major university and college campuses. He has also participated as a panelist, in conjunction with prominent Black psychologists, in comprehensive discussions regarding the assessment and improvement of the mental and spiritual health of the Black community. In addition to overseeing more than 400 ceremonies and rituals, Baba Femi has either directly facilitated, or served as the principal liaison for the initiations of more than 50 Ifa and Olorisha priests. With the blessings of Olodumare, his ancestors, and Ifa, this life has allowed him to fully embrace and experience that which his heart has chosen. He is proud to be an African American man, native Houstonian, descendant of slaves, priest of Ifa, teacher, author, mentor, son, a friend to many, a loving husband, and most importantly, an honorable father. Focused on #Empowerment, specifically #BlackEmpowerment, the Get On Code (The Fly Guy Show), is built on the #EmpowermentAgenda. #GetOnCodeShow #GetOnCodePodcast #TheFlyGuysShow Interested in sponsoring the podcast? Email TheFlyGuysShow@gmail.com . Private Money for Real Estate Investments: PositiveVibesFinancial@gmail.com Invest with Acorns: https://www.acorns.com/invite?code=zd3daa Invest in stocks via STASH: https://get.stashinvest.com/sekosq72j Fix your credit: https://positivevibes.myecon.net/my-credit-system/ Healthy Health & Beauty products: http://commonscents4u.org/ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/get-on-code/message
Brief History of Afro-Cuban Santeria (Yoruba Religions, Orishas, Blood Sacrifice, Magic)An exploration of Santeria and how this Yoruba religion syncretized with Catholicism. This hour long podcast is my aim to combat misinformation about Santeria. With research from Migene Gonzalez-Wippler and some additional context, this episode is great for anyone who enjoyed my episode on Rastafarianism and wanted to learn more about another religion originating from West Africa.This podcast is on the lighter side and I'll talk about all the interesting parts of Santeria you're dying to learn about. I'll give details about the Orishas such as Chango, Oshun, Yemaya and Obatala amongst others. Learn about the rites and rituals of Santeria NEVER seen in the media... You can find out how people "join" Santeria and learn about Afro-Cuban magic as well as the TRUTH about blood sacrifice within the faith. This has an Afro-Caribbean historical focus and might be a great listen if you're interested in Afro-Latino history or Caribbean history. Sources: Brief History of Afro-Cuban Santeria (Orishas, Blood Sacrifice, Magic) by Migene Gonzalez-WipplerPowers of the Orishas: Santeria and the worship of the Saints by Migene Gonzalez-WipplerE-MAIL blackhistorypod@gmail.comFind me on social media and say hello.SUBSCRIBE and follow for a new weekly podcast.Find me on twitter:www.twitter.com/blkhistorypodSubscribe on Patreon:www.patreon.com/blackhistorypodMusic by rising star Pres Morris:Twitter: www.twitter.com/pres_morrisradiofreeglobe.bandcamp.comClosing Track License https://www.epidemicsound.com/track/xhCgbUS5Qo/
In this episode, Dr. Dery talks with Dr. Trivia Frazier, Ph.D. of Obatala Sciences. Dr. Frazier is the CEO and founder of Obatala Sciences and in this episode, Dr. Dery interviews Dr. Frazier about how she fell in love with science as a teenager, and how she parlayed that love for science into her success story of starting Obatala Sciences. Stay until the end of the show, where Dr. Obatala explains how her work is an inspiration for young women to seek a career in science.
Ancestral Eyes S2E2 “ROUNDTABLE discussion” welcomes back Daniel Barreiro, (Bokonon Dafodji of Abomalé-Kpenglá Vodoun-Fá Community in Uruguay) and Oluawo Nelson Freire Ifabiyi, Ifaworld Conference with your hosts Teresa Sliwinski and Jean-Jerome C. Baudry (Awo Ifálọdún Akínyode, AP) Daniel is a Bokonon in the Fá Agbassá Vodoun-Fá line, initiated in Benin-Abomey 7 years ago, Writer and Cultural Advisor. He studied at the University of the Republic-Faculty of Psychology and is currently carrying out studies in a Bachelor of Anthropology-Archeology at the Universidad de la República, Faculty of Humanities and Sciences Our second special return guest is Baba Ifabiyi, Nelson Alvarez who was born in Habana Cuba and was initiated to Obatala and to Ifa by the customs of the Regla de Ocha-Ifa in Cuba 40 years ago. Baba Nelson later travelled to Mexico DF, Mexico where he became the Vice-President of the Sociedad Yoruba de Mexico under Leonel Gamez, Oshe Niwo. He later founded the Ifa World Conference, a nonprofit organization focused on research on the Ifa and Orisa practice from a Lineage in Lagos studying both the language, practice and customs and reconciling them with the Afro-Cuban practice. Ifaworld Conference has worked with the Consejo Cultural Yoruba de Canada and also the VODOUN-FA BOKONON ABOMALE-KPENGLA Community of Uruguay to also study and compare practices between Fa-Gbassa Vodoun Fa and Regla Ocha-Ifa of Cuba. Our discussion tonight will focus on the Spiritual Guide as seen from Fá Agbassá Vodoun-Fá and with commentary and comparison to Yorùbá Ifá-Òrìsà and Afro-Cuban Regla de Ocha-Ifa . We will look at the central role that the Ancestor or "Djoto/Guia Spiritual" plays in a person's spiritual journey or mission and how that takes shape in terms of the Yoruba concept of “Ori” and the Vodoun-Fá concept of the “Se”. We will also talk about the process of Ifá/Fá divination and the concept of the Ancestral Guide Divination. We will pull from both the historical, abstract and modern-day actual practice of these West African traditions as well as concepts that stem from Egypt and Mesopotamia. We will also talk about the Book "Noire" written by Bokono Dafodji, now on sale through the Consejo Cultural Yorùbá de Canada, at https://consejoculturalyoruba.ca/shop. If you would like to be a future guest on our show, please write to us at jjbaudry@ancestraleyes.ca!
The Heroes get into a skirmish on their infernal flying machine and are sent crashing to the ground by Obatala, Bitch! On foot they help out a wizard looking fellow trapped in a circle of Obelisk's and have to make a pit stop at the Mirror of Mephistar to ask Mephistopheles for help, but his […]
a continuation of gangs and santeria pt1, a deeper dive in the rabbit hole, ase yemaya and eleggua.
initiation system in ifa PT 1
Ancestral Eyes welcomes back Kabiyesi Ifagbemi Faseye Efunsola on Episode 33 of our show with special guest Gbolahan Macjob, journalist BBC World Service with your hosts Teresa Sliwinski and Jean- Jérôme C. Baudry! Our main guest: Kabiyesi Ifagbemi Faseye Efunsola talks about the Ifá-Òrìsà Indigenous worship and his 28 trips to West Africa including Nigeria, Republic of Benin and Togo for the purposes of initiations and religious study. On this special edition return show, he also announces his Oba Òrìsà Obatala of America title after all religious rights were done in Ile Ife by the spiritual Head of Obatala in Ife Obalesun. Baba Faseye began his formal, comparative religious study in 1998. For over 20 years now he has diligently served my community as a healer, diviner, educator, and steward of indigenous spiritual tradition. Before becoming a respected leader in the tradition, he underwent many years of study and practice as an Ifa priest (Babalawo), communicating with the Spirit of Destiny known as Orunmila in order to divine a person's destiny and, when needed, make edits or changes to this destiny through ritual (or, ebo). As a leader within this culture and tradition, he also specialized in various other forms of divination such as mirror and water gazing, cowry divination and other mystical spiritual disciplines in order to assist devoted seekers to find working solutions to many of life's various challenges. For more information on the Ifá-Òrìsà Indigenous worship and Baba Faseye's practice, please visit her website: https://oracleifa.com/ Our second special guest: GBOLAHAN MACJOB is a Multimedia journalist at BBC World Service. He is an author and filmmaker. Being an Ifa devotee since 2014 If you would like to be a future guest on our show please write to us at jjbaudry@ancestraleyes.ca! Remember to tune-in every Friday @ 8 pm EST for our live show!
What does Afro-Latinx mean?Afro-Latin refers to people from Latin American countries with African ancestry. In both Latin America and the United States, this population is usually coded as being Black.Afro-Latin, and other identifiers like the Spanish afrodescendientes (those of African descent), have long been used by governments and academics for Latin American people with African roots. Due to slavery and colonization, there are large populations of Afro-Latin people in Latin America, including Mexico, the Caribbean, Colombia, and Brazil. In this show We will explore what is means to be Afro-Latinidad. the Discussion will be Seasoned with some Incredible Poetry! From Shaggy Flores: Nuyorican-Massarican Poet Shaggy Flores hails from Guaynabo (Borinken), El Barrio and Shaolin (Nueva Yol), Springfield (New England), and the DMV area. He is the author of Sancocho: A Book of Nuyorican Poetry and Obatala’s Bugalu: A Book of Nuyorican Sights and Sounds. His work can also be found in Manteca! An Anthology of Afro-Latino@ Poets.Mercy Tullis-Bukhari is an ELA Teacher at NYC Department of Education, an Adjunct Professor at The College of New Rochelle. She is a poet, fiction writer, essayist, lover, mezcal aficionado, poet... Blaize the Poet "Blaize The Poet" is a Baton Rouge native by way of Chicago. She has inspired many audiences around the nation with her authentically southern poetry and personality. John Robinson also known as Jrob the Wise Son is a Poet, Writer, Performer Harlem Writers Guild Member, Epiphany Radio Host and Bronx Native.Founder of A DEEPER SHADE OF SOUL, ENTERPRISES, LLC, John is the author of the soon to be released A Spoken Word Soliloquy and co-author of the book “ Sygnifyn Harlem “ in collaboration with the poet Jade Banks. 319-527-6300 press 1 to be heard
In this episode, Dr. Frazier shares with us her background starting with both Physics and Biomedical Sciences translating into becoming CEO of Obatala Sciences. We discuss the tissue on a chip industry, what "Fat on a Chip" is used for and how Obatala is also working on wound solutions. For more information, detailed show notes and links to Dr. Frazier please visit: www.lifesciencesuccess.com
This episode we kick off the podcast taking a look at Africa, where a chicken literally scratches the earth into existence. And for our fact, we’re taking a quick dive into an ancient Nigerian storytelling ceremony called “Tales by Moonlight.” While you get tuned in, we about to get turnt up (Looking for a high five on that one!) here... on the Colored Folklore podcast! 00:44 - Music: https://musicvine.com/track/all-good-folks/mr-mischief (Mr. Mischief), https://www.allgoodfolks.co.uk/ (All Good Folks) (via https://musicvine.com/ (Music Vine)) 01:05 - Logo: https://www.behance.net/arthurmask (Arthur) 01:08 - Episode Art: https://www.behance.net/JacquelineNicolau (Jacqueline) 01:59 - Colored Folklore, Episode Format 02:32 - https://www.everyculture.com/wc/Mauritania-to-Nigeria/Yoruba.html (Yoruba People) http://www.gateway-africa.com/stories/Yoruba_Creation_Myth.html (Gateway Africa version) http://www.allfolktales.com/wafrica/yoruba_creation.php (All Folk Tales version) https://sites.google.com/a/asu.edu/mythology-of-africa/the-creation-of-the-universe-and-ife (Mythology of Africa version) http://www.bigmyth.com/download/YORUBA_CREATION.pdf (Big Myth version) http://railsback.org/CS/CSGoldenChain.html (Railsback version) 02:58 - https://africa.com/heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-nigeria/ (Nigeria, Africa) 03:06 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itan (Itan) 03:15 - https://medium.com/@Illulife/breathtaking-images-of-african-orisha-deities-youve-never-heard-of-before-a0e686c00e3#:~:text=An%20Orisha%20(spelled%20%C3%B2r%C3%AC%E1%B9%A3%C3%A0%20in,%2C%20Olofi)%20in%20Yoruba%20religion. (Orisha) 03:25 - https://elements.envato.com/african-7ZUY6BR (African), by florews 03:38 - The Beginning of our Tale: 03:44 - http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Ni-Pa/Olorun.html (Olorun) 04:34 - http://ileife.org/oba/obatala.html (Obatala) 04:50 - https://www.originalbotanica.com/blog/chango-shango-orisha-santeria/ (Shango) 05:49 - https://religion.wikia.org/wiki/Orunmila (Orunmila) 08:28 - https://elements.envato.com/the-african-tribe-NMS6UV8 (The African Tribe), by LukePN 12:00 - Chicken time 12:11 - https://www.ancient.eu/Ife/ (Ife) 16:43 - https://elements.envato.com/ca8-ambience-villagefair-crowd-02-RX7NAWD (CA8 Ambience VillageFair Crowd 02), by Soundbits_SoundFX 19:20 - https://elements.envato.com/african-delight-L9ZU2WH (African Delight), by simonleng 20:09 - https://elements.envato.com/african-drums-logo-XNSHT9C (African Drums Logo), by plain cask 20:11 - https://www.originalbotanica.com/blog/the-orishas-olokun/ (Olokun) 21:50 - http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Dr-Fi/Eshu.html (Eshu) 23:08 - https://elements.envato.com/cartoon-goat-7C4QTBZ (Cartoon Goat), by FXProSound 23:13 - https://elements.envato.com/cartoon-sad-goat-8VH5BN3 (Cartoon Sad Goat), by FXProSound 28:13 - https://elements.envato.com/african-travel-FT49QU7 (African Travel), by skimming 32:40 - https://elements.envato.com/africa-hip-hop-AS5C2UG (African Hip Hop), by soundroll-music 33:00 - Take Aways 33:40 - African Fact: Tales by Moonlight https://www.anikefoundation.org/african-stories (African Folk Tales) http://www.africanbookscollective.com/books/moonlight-stories (African Stories) https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.1047.7669&rep=rep1&type=pdf#:~:text=The%20programme%2C%20called%20%22Tales%20by,foreign%20option%2C%20the%20Sesame%20Street. (Identity, Culture and Politics), Volume 3, Number 1, July 2002 https://guardian.ng/art/osewas-rekindling-of-tales-by-moonlight/ (Guardian Arts) https://steemit.com/story/@bat-junior/tales-by-moonlight-old-stories-moments-that-can-t-be-forgotten (Tales by Moonlight) http://allfolktales.blogspot.com/2006/10/tales-by-moonlight-on-nta.html (Tales by Moonlight, NTA) https://www.academia.edu/34798844/An_Appraisal_of_the_Impact_of_NTA_s_Tales_by_Moonlight_in_the_Edutainment_of_Children_in_Lagos_State_doc (Academia) 35:46 - End credits and Allies 35:58 -... Support this podcast
Our heroes flirt with danger and return to Arkhan's Tower for a knock down brawl with Obatala. She given those tiger eyes.
Neste episódio você ouvirá o itan "Obatalá cria Ikú, a Morte", um conto sobre como e por qual motivo foi necessário criar a Morte aqui no Ayê, na Terra. Narrado por Juliana Iyadunni Porto.
The Hermit's Lamp Podcast - A place for witches, hermits, mystics, healers, and seekers
Andrew, Fabeku, and Aidan (aka Stacking Skulls) get together to talk about living during this ongoing pandemic. They talk about astrology, racism, colonialism, magic, getting by, and so much more. Think about how much you've enjoyed the podcast and how many episodes you listened to, and consider if it is time to support the Patreon You can do so here. If you want more of this in your life you can subscribe by RSS , iTunes, Stitcher, or email. Aidan is here. Fabeku is here. Andrew is here. Thanks for joining the conversation. Please share the podcast to help us grow and change the world. Andrew You can book time with Andrew through his site here. Transcript is below. Andrew: Hey, folks. Welcome to another episode of The Hermit's Lamp Podcast. At the time of this recording, it is, basically, the end of August, and been on a hiatus since the earth of spring from podcasting. Just too busy with dealing with all of the chaos of COVID and all of that chaos and everything else. But, I was thinking that the last episode that I did with Stacking Skulls was called WTF, and I think that the title for this one is probably WTF Still? Because, here we are so many months out from what's going on, and yet still life is chaotic and uncertain, and, really, especially for folks in America, way worse in some ways than it was back then. I don't think that we are still cruising around the idea that it might be, "Yeah, three weeks of lockdown, maybe a little bit longer," and now we're in the phase of, "Is there an end? When's the end? How does an end of this come together?" And, all that wear and tear that's kicked around. So, anyways, if you don't know Stacking Skulls, well, number one, you're in for a treat. There's a whole bunch of episodes of us clowning around together. But, I'm here with Fabeku and Aidan, and we're just going to check in as my fall relaunch of the podcast happens. So, yeah, who wants to go first, what's going on? How's the last five months been? Aidan: The last five months have been ridiculous. Andrew: Yeah. Aidan: It's been crazy busy, partially. We were pointed at doing... When I say we in this context, that's me and my wife... doing another class but with COVID and everybody being sent home, we realized that that didn't make any sense to try and put anything out that was a larger money thing. Because, it seemed like it was quite possible we weren't going to have much money and we didn't really feel great about trying to get 300 bucks or something out of people at that moment in time, because, really, we couldn't tell how things were going. So, we changed gears back to my second book, and so I've been rapidly finishing that and then learning InDesign to put it all together and get it printed. So, that's launched as an e-book now and in 10 days, 9 days, something like that, the print books start landing on people's doorsteps. Andrew: Nice. Aidan: It's overall just been weird. We're in one of the states that are... our governor has always taken this thing really seriously. So, we didn't get hit nearly as hard as most other places with the exception of some places on the reservation got hit really bad. So, we've been in lockdown way before a lot of places that didn't get hit as hard have been. We're now at the place that it's masks if you are outside of your home, period. So, I haven't really been on the bike for a while, because it is not fun to go riding around on that. We're super supportive of it. Because, it's just not being one of the people that is necessarily at as much risk as other people are, though... obviously, everybody can get it and can get messed up by it. You certainly don't want to be involved in spreading the shit. Andrew: For sure. Aidan: So, it's been crazy on that sense, but at the same time, we're homebodies anyway, and it's us at home with the animals. So, we've shifted a few things, but they've not been great. Not been huge for us. Then yeah, just doing book promo stuff and then launched the first episode of my podcast. But other than that, it's just been working on the book, working on getting the book out there, working on understanding InDesign. Andrew: It's not at all a small task to do a thing like that, right? Aidan: Yeah, it's interesting. I'm glad I know how to do it because it sets me up to do more. So, I'll be doing the e-book of Six Ways next and then I've already got part of the third book going. So, it's nice because it allows me to take the reins for that whole project now, but it is a lot of work. Keeping busy with that. Chickens, lots of chickens. Andrew: Yum, yum. I mean, wonderful. Aidan: I don't eat them but I yum yum for their eggs. Andrew: How about you Fabeku? Fabeku: Yes, same. It's been crazy, like everybody. I think the last time I left the house was end of February, maybe first couple days of March. Have not been out of the house since then. Like Aidan, I don't go out of the house much anyway. But, this many months has been a strange thing. Yeah, I've been busy with a ton of stuff too. I just finished a book with some writing and art and some shit like that, that's going to be published by Revelore in October. [inaudible], so that's a cool thing. It was weird for a while. The first few months, I had a hell of a time doing art. I could do some stuff for clients or collectors or whatever but my own stuff is just, "What the fuck am I doing?" It was awhile that I didn't do any art which is weird for me. So, finally, back at that which is good. I feel like that was sanity preserving kind of things. Yeah, excited about the book, excited about the couple of books after that, that I'm finally back in motion after stalling out for a while and just busy with a ton of people stuff and trying to help people manage this fuckery that is 2020 at this point. Yeah, it's been a pretty high bandwidth task moment. Yeah, I don't know. It's a strange time in so many ways. In so many ways. Andrew: Yeah, I feel like this hit, probably around the time we were doing the last episode, things were slow-ish for me, and I was just trying to figure out what was going on and all that kind of stuff. Then, just things got super busy between the store and client work and suddenly having two kids that I'm solo parenting half the time. Not in school, all that kind of stuff. All of a sudden, it's just, wow, I'm just working as a parent or working as my regular job continuously and all the time. That was just an intense run all the way through until, really, maybe two weeks ago or three weeks ago, when I... here in Toronto, things went pretty good. We had a lot of stuff going on, but we're down to maybe 20 new cases a day, maybe less. We've had some single digits and restaurants are open and a lot of stuff. Gyms are open, with social distancing, of course, but it hasn't brought about a big spike in anything. So, cautiously optimistic about it. Have been, and then, of course, the next big question is, school starts next month, and it's, what's going to go on with that and so on. Right? So, it's just trying to have a wrangle all that stuff with COVID. Then, I think, the other big thing that... this happened in this time since we last talked, right, was George Floyd's death. Right? Aidan: Absolutely. Andrew: The resurgence of what, really, should be a continuous thing of, how do we fix these racial divides and inequities and all this stuff. It's definitely a thing that's taken up a chunk of my attention as well in terms of trying to stay attentive to it, right. To not just drift back into day-to-day life, and whatever. Because, that's been the history of it, right? It erupts into the media and into our consciousness because there's some horrible thing that happens. Then, from a broader perspective, it dissipates, right? It doesn't build momentum. So, yeah, I would say I'm hopeful that it's going to change at this point. I have no idea, right. But, I think that there, definitely, felt like there's a different quality to what's been going on around that stuff, that I have some hope that it will make bigger changes. Yeah. Aidan: Yeah, that's been a huge thing too, obviously. And, it's interesting because it's even where you get stuff that's... I have folks in my family that still don't perceive what the issue is, you know? Which is weird to me on a personal level because I have, in my immediate, immediate-immediate family, people of color. So, you don't even want to take their word for what they're experiencing, even though they are technically your family, right? You're so set in your belief structure here that you can't see that or can't see the difference or the shifts between it. There's folks in my family that, again, have children that are children of color, that still don't see it. It's, really? How are you that unaware? How do you maintain that? That's what, I guess, I don't understand. I've never been able to maintain that. I didn't start with it, I think, and that's why. But, it's been good to see the attention. So, the reasons behind why it needs to be there are horrible, but yeah, I don't know. Then, for us in the US, to me, there's like an almost psychotic nature to the United States right now. Where the whole discourse is so stratified and so divisive and so peculiar in where people can and will go. It's really, you don't see that in yourself or you don't see that in the people that you're supporting? How do you pull that off? I just don't get it. Fabeku: Its been interesting for me, my mother is in her 80s and grew up in a little teeny tiny, literally, a shack in the hills of Kentucky. After George Floyd was killed, every single time I've talked to her, that's almost all she's talked about, and how she realizes, at this stage of the game, that she's spent 80 something years oblivious to this shit, and not paying attention and not listening to people, and having the privilege to not pay attention to it because it didn't affect her. And, she's trying to have conversations with her sisters and her brothers, almost all of whom are completely oblivious to it and entirely entrenched in, what's the big fucking deal, kind of thing. I It's interesting to me, the way it's shaken things, loosened her in a way that I've never seen before, right? It's not that we didn't have conversations about it before but, I don't know, I don't think she got it. As opposed to her sisters and brothers, will actively push against it. It was never that so much, it was just, well, yeah, that's really bad. But now, I mean, we have hours and hours of conversations of just, how the fuck have I not paid attention to this? How the fuck if I lived my entire life not understanding how, and completely, fucked things are for people that aren't white in this country? It's been an interesting thing to see. I think she's hopeful that her sisters and brothers will wake up and get it. I don't think they will. They're about as deeply entrenched in that kind of bullshit as it gets. But, yeah, it's been interesting to listen to my mother, of all people, have long conversations about this. When John Lewis passed, she was talking about, how did I never really pay attention to who this man was? How did I not know his life and his legacy and his history? Yeah, it's been an interesting come to Jesus moment, in some ways for her. Andrew: Mm-hmm (affirmative). It's funny, when I started this podcast many years ago, the first thing I did was a series of interviews on why some people change and why some people don't, right. I talked to people [inaudible] they're right there, the early episodes still existent. Should be on iTunes, and whatever I talk to. That time I was mostly tarot focused so I've talked to a bunch of tarot readers about it. It's, nobody's got an answer for that, right. I think that it's such a significant question now, right. Can we understand how to make change in society? I think that we're seeing a lot of stuff around that, that the answer is, maybe it doesn't. Maybe it can't be polite, maybe it can't be quiet, maybe it can't be whatever, right? Because, I see the things that make change, and the quiet, polite route is predominantly a route of quiet and polite with money and power behind it, right? You know? Aidan: Oh, yeah. You get to be very quiet and polite if you have lots of privilege. Andrew: Right? But also, thinking about the people who follow Stalking Skulls. They're our groupies, right? They are those people who are part of our magical communities, right? I think that it's such a... number one, if we want to work magic, we have to try our best to see the world as it is, right? That means, from my point of view, seeing racism and sexism, and all the different things that are going on, right, and engaging with that, right. I think that it's not that you can't do magic without being aware of lots of things, but I think that the more aware we are, the more it gives us capacity to see and make change both in ourselves, and depending on what's going on in the world too, or see where change might be able to happen. Aidan: Yeah, I think that it's very interesting on the magic side, because I agree with you totally. The more aware you are of how things are unfolding or how things can unfold or how things... for me, my own tendencies to, where will I not consider change? Because, there are places that I really don't want to do that, like quitting coffee, which I did. Andrew: What? Aidan: Because, my wife finally said, I don't think this is working well for you, even though you've been doing it for 40-something years so you should drop all of the caffeine. I, totally, entrenched for several hours and then went, Okay, I know that this is not good. I said, I need some space to go and think about this, and went, okay, let's examine myself and go, oh, yeah, this is typical junkie behavior. It's the same as any other addiction I've dealt with, so I'm not really down with that. So, something's got to change. But, if I didn't have the ability to go, okay, I'm being given information of everyone outside of me that I don't like. I've been given a suggestion that I don't like. Yes, this is an entirely personal and minor one, but if I can't actually go, okay, this is also from somebody that I believe is serious and has intelligence. So maybe, I should take some time and figure out why I don't want to hear it, let alone consider it. It's an interesting thing. I think that's critical in magic. I think it's critical in life, but we can get away with it without doing it. It's just not necessarily the best way, I don't think. Andrew: Yeah, I don't even know what else to say about this. I'm just, "Fuck!" I think that's part of what's tough about the racial issue. It's like, "Man." I think that there are plenty of places to go look up what you could do, right? You know I mean? Fabeku: Absolutely. Andrew: It's not that I [crosstalk] specific things or I'm not taking actions around it, right. But, I think that this moment where the scope of COVID, the scope of these issues is so big, so daunting, right? Yeah, it's [inaudible] this space where it's [inaudible], so big so much. It's, yeah, staring at that abyss, right, and know that it's staring back at you and then start walking into it, right. But, nonetheless, it's interesting. It's interesting times, for sure. Fabeku: Yeah. I think, for me, a lot of the magic, personally, has been aimed at either expanding or maintaining that capacity, right? Because, I think that one of the things that's easy to do when we're looking at something daunting, whether it's the racial issues or the virus stuff or personal, whatever it is, you just shut down, numb out, turn off. Obviously, I think, for the people that have the privilege to be able to do that, that's the thing a lot of people do. The reality is, there's a ton of people that never have that option, right? Because, they're so fucked, they just can't say, "Well, this is too big. I'm going to watch Netflix for a few hours and not give a fuck." I think that I've really been looking at that capacity thing. How do you expand the capacity enough to keep your eye on the abyss? To keep walking forward, to not tune out. To not say, well, somebody else will handle it, because, listen, we've done that shift for too long, and, obviously, it's failed in every possible fucking way. Yeah. Yeah, capacity seems to be a big thing right now. Andrew: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, I think it's huge, right. I think that it's a piece that I learned mostly from you, right, actually. I had some very clumsy ideas around it, and your work clarified it. It gave me a real focus. It's, yeah, that's what I've been trying to get at, but I couldn't quite see it, right? I think that working to increase capacity, in whatever way you want to work on it, magically and otherwise, I think is crucial, right? I mean, in my parenting, there are definitely times when it's, all right, somebody, somewhere give me some more capacity right now because I am overwhelmed by this business. I think that working to call that in and expand that and stretch that and so on is super, super important, right? Aidan: It's interesting. I think, three days ago, we hit a place, my wife and I, where we went, Okay, we're not actually doing things the way that we know work well for us. So, how do we get that space back? Because, we lived in a cabin with no power or anything for a couple years, and we were really looking at that time, and going, there's a way that we were very well in that space. Anyway, as a result of this... this ties into your capacity thing for BQ, we decided that once we're both awake in the morning and ready to go, we turn on our cell phones, and we turn on the wifi, and we do, maybe, an hour of stuff that needs to happen through those tools. Then, we turn them all the way off, we turn off the wifi, we unplug the router, we turn off our cell phones all the way. We might have some stuff stored on our computer that we downloaded that we need to work on or whatever, but that's it for being connected. Then, usually, we'll do that again in the afternoon and try and be done with that by about six. This is sharing not... primarily, because it's been incredible for us for just these last few days. So, it's not as much as suggestion as something to think about if people are super overwhelmed, because the 24-hour cycle has become just crushing in a way right now. But, we had a weird day. The first day was really weird. Like, okay, well, what do you do if we're not streaming Netflix for the last three hours of the day? Well, then I'm playing guitar for the last three hours of the day. One of these things is good for me, one of these things is at best neutral, right. The same thing during the day, that the amount of time that we're actually spending talking and working on our plans and thinking about how we do stuff together, is huge. It's probably an 80% increase in the last few days. Instead of the magical overt side of building capacity, which, I'm with you, I learned from Fabeku. But, there's also the really base level of just going, can you step out of all of the noise and then check in to get what you need. It causes you to weed your sources out, figure out what do you need to see, what do you need to know, and if your time is limited to that and you're not going in and out of it all day, at least, for us, it's been an immense change that I don't see going back to that at all. It's, no, two hours of fucking net and cell phone access is more than planning for us. Everybody's going to be in a different situation. Fabeku: Yeah, this summer, my partner and I have been doing more leisure, and more, just, super-leisure. I've been lucky to be able to take a bit of time off and so on. So, we went to this place and it's a spa place and spent the second day there, literally, just either in the pool, on a lounger beside the pool or eating, having lunch or whatever. Yeah, no phone, no mess, no whatever. I didn't look at my phone, I think I looked at once through the, almost, two days that I was away. What actually needed to be responded to during that time? Not very much, right? I've been working on trying to institute more of this space, right? And, noticing, I like my movies and my TV, but also, I've been reminding myself that if I'm looking at my phone while I'm watching TV, something is wrong, right, for me? People do whatever makes you happy, right? But its, either the show's not interesting enough, or I'm not looking at something that I need to address or, whatever, in order to be present with the thing that I'm doing. I think that if something's not engrossing me enough that it's holding my attention, well, then what's going on with that, right? I think about, I've been doing a lot of rock climbing again, and when I go by myself and do boulder, I will, sometimes, keep my phone around and read things on my phone while I'm resting in between climbs because I'm just sitting there by myself. But, last night, I went with my friend who I go with every week, and I left my phone in my locker, which is not a thing I would have done, at some point. I would have brought it with me, I would have checked in every now and then and whatever. But, it's, what am I doing, I've got a person to talk to, I've got an activity that I'm engrossed in. Yeah. Aidan: Yeah, it's an interesting thing. Yeah, I had a place, I guess, it was about a month and a half ago which is interesting because, again, my life isn't that different, pandemic-wise than it is usually. But, I hit a place where I really couldn't get into any of the movies, any of the TV shows, anything. Even stuff that I like, wasn't happening. That moved me in that direction, and I shifted back towards reading more. Then, one of the weirdest things that we've had and I'm sure that there's lots of people that have studied things like EMF and all of that is, we live in a really quiet house because we're on a couple acres in a really quiet town. But, at the point that the phones are actually turned off and the computers are off and the wifi is off, it feels so quiet. In a way that even if the router is still on, it doesn't. Which makes sense, we know that these things are radiating stuff. But yeah, it's a crazy difference to go, "That's noticeable. That is really different", and then balancing that out from, we're all old enough to have not had these things. So you go, "How interesting is that? This is really the first big chunk of my life, probably, felt like this, and what did I do? I played music, I read books, I talked to the people who around me, I engaged in a very different way." It's not to say I want to throw all that stuff away, but, definitely, it's opened my eyes to finding its place, rather than just letting it find its place in my life, I want to be the one that decides what its place is. Andrew: Yeah, I think it's a really good way to put it, right? Aidan: Mm-hmm (affirmative)- Andrew: So, now we all need to do a group working to break the internet's hold on us. It's an exorcism of sorts. Aidan: I don't if we're the ones who need it from what I see. Andrew: Wow. Did you do any magic around quitting coffee or did you just stop? Aidan: No, my wife is our house apothecarist and herbalist so she treated it as a situation that could be dealt with herbs and using them in a homeopathic way. Not really using homeopathic medicines, but using some tinctures that she'd made. So, she's having me check-in with her every couple hours, "Tell me what's going on? How's your head? How's your... How's this, how's that?" Because, my tonsils were going off a little bit. I definitely detoxed like a crazy person for the first five days. That's always one of those signs. I had that same experience when we quit... when we went paleo, and we dropped all processed foods and all the grains and stuff. This is the total TMI, but you can absolutely tell how foul you are inside by how foul your poop is when you quit eating it. Your body goes, "Oh, you're not going to put more in, okay, well have this because we don't want it anymore." Andrew: Get rid of all of it. Aidan: Get rid of all of it, because oh, that's nasty. So, I think that now that my liver and all of that have had some time to back off away from the caffeine, things feel good, but I didn't have to do magic on this one. Andrew: Mm-hmm (affirmative). [inaudible], Fabeku, is giving up coffee in your future? Fabeku: You know, actually, yeah, I haven't had any caffeine since early May, I think? Andrew: Wow. Fabeku: Yeah, for me, I reached a point to, between some body stuff and just the chaos and the anxiety of the moment, I'm, "What fuck am I doing? What the fuck am I doing?" Because, I really think up until then, I was drinking either coffee or yerba mate, then I'd throw in some caffeine pills. I'm, "What the fuck am I doing? This makes no sense." Andrew: What are you, 16? Fabeku: Exactly. Acting like [inaudible] 7-Eleven to get [manodos] or whatever the fuck those things were. It was absurd. I think, for me... and this is what Aidan was talking about, about not doing things in a way that works. It was like, listen, if I'm structuring my life in a way that this makes sense, then something's wrong because this doesn't make any sense at all. If you're recreationally enjoying coffee, one thing. Chugging caffeine all day and then throwing a fistful of caffeine pills on top of it, it's, listen, something is sideways. So, yeah, for me, it's been, yeah, late April, early March, or early May, since I've had any caffeine at all. Aidan: Oh, very good. Fabeku: Yeah. Aidan: So, I could blame you, it was you, reaching out through the ethers, right? Fabeku: I want decaffeinated company. Andrew: Oh, boy. No, I feel so embarrassed about my coffee cup [inaudible]. Fabeku: [inaudible] on. Andrew: I actually know that it's not great for me. Well, it's part of a bad cycle for me, right? For me, coffee and being too busy, just go hand in hand, right? When I stop being too busy, then I stop hitting the coffee. It's just it rolls back. I remember when I moved into the last location where the fire was, I had quit coffee, I quit sugar, and I was just eating food, right? Making my own food most of the time, and I felt great. Then, I spent a month building a new shop. So, getting up as early as I could, doing construction, going to my old space, seeing clients, going to the new space, working until I felt like I might be a danger to myself, stopping, and I was just doing that. I did that every day for a month, right? Somewhere in there, one of the people who was helping was, "I've got to take a coffee break and go to Tim Hortons and get something." I was, "Yes, give me coffee." Right? Then, probably, a few days later it was, "Yeah, get me a donut, too." And, that it was that was it, right, because it was just an unreasonable time. Then, been sort of, on and off wrestling with it ever since, right? I think that this time actually... again, going into COVID, I was maybe drinking more coffee when I get up kind of thing, right? But now, I'm having three again and I'm, ah, it's not ideal, but also, this is hangover of the massive pace that I've been running on, and trying to... my life is slower, but I have that velocitization like I've been on the highway, right, where I feel like I've go faster than I do. So, I'm sure everybody's loving it right now, conversation about our caffeine habits. All right, it's official, Stacking Skills is anti-coffee. Stop it, it's bad for you. Just kidding, do what you want. There's a show called Beastmaster. You guys know that show? It's a super obstacle course kind of thing, right? If you like watching people with ridiculous physical capacities, to ridiculous challenges and climbing over things and swing from stuff, go check it. But, either way, it doesn't matter so much. But, I was noticing that all the people who were on it were working on themselves to get better, physically, and working on themselves as a person and working whatever. You see a lot of that in a lot of places, right. Certainly, if you're on the socials, you'll see that stuff a lot, right. I was, "Maybe, I'm done working to evolve. Maybe this idea of self-improvement is one that I should just jettison." What happens if I don't try and self-improve, but instead, just live and navigate? Right? Does that mean that I'm going to stop learning new things? Of course, it doesn't, right? Does it mean that I'm going to stop making changes in my life? No. But, if there's this narrative of improvement, or evolution or whatever around these kind of things, I feel like there's a real pitfall in that. I don't buy into too much, but a little every now and then I do. I'm, "It's okay to be done with that. Just be like, this is just my life. I'm just navigating my life now". Is it going to change? Yeah. Is it going to change radically over the next 10 years? Maybe. But, does it have to do with evolution or, that kind of stuff? The perpetual cycle of self-improvement and so on. I don't know that I want anything to do with that, in the way that I see it anyway. Aidan: I go off about this somewhere, recently, I think. It's probably in Weaving Fate, I don't know. Which is about the whole thing about optimal now, right? I think this is totally tied in there. It's optimal nutrition, optimal training, optimal study habits, optimal work habits. I think it doesn't serve anything. It's, well, that's great if you're already... if you're already on Beastmaster and you're trying to win, then yes, you need to be worried about optimization. But, if you're climbing rocks or lifting weights, because you enjoy it, or you think it makes you healthier, then optimization is probably not actually all that relevant to you. It's another marketed obsession. Andrew: But I feel like I see it in magic, too, right? Aidan: Mm-hmm (affirmative)- Andrew: A little while back, I posted something being, "Hey, everybody, don't forget, astrology is completely optional, right? You actually don't need to do anything with astrology to do magic." This isn't a criticism of this direction, right. But, the swing into grimoire magic and the resurgence of astrology as a prominent influence in spiritual and occult communities over the last five years, or whatever it's been. It's always been there, but it's really been ramping up, right, to be a thing that you see on the internet all the time. I think that there's this notion towards optimal and less around magic too, right. Well, I better make sure that this is the most astrologically auspicious moment that I have summoned the angels and the four governors, and the four kings and the [inaudible], and on and on and on, towards stuff. I think that there's a direct or indirect pressure from things moving in that direction that I think doesn't need to be a part of any of it, right. It's all really deeply optional. Yet, isn't presented as optional, right. There's a drive behind it. Because, one of the things that was really interesting in the comments on that post, right, was people... it's the internet, people want to share their opinions and stuff, which is great, and people jumping in and being, "Well, you're being influenced whether you know it or not. Whether, you're whatever." I'm, "But, are we? Are we really?" I don't know about that. I'm not sure that I believe that big, grand narrative behind all these different things, is universal. You know what I mean? Yeah. I've talked- Aidan: Yeah, I'm with you on that. It's an interesting one. Lonnie and I were talking about this a little bit. My take has been since I got what I thought was... I started getting respectable results from my magic, was to go really hard on those things. The things that are working, I want to get really good with. I think the term I used... it made Lonnie laugh because I said, "If sigils are your jam, be a savage sigil magician, right, and see if you need anything else. Because you may not." I think this is where I totally agree with that is, there's an amassing of classically, historically relevant information that is fabulous, if that's what you're into. But, there's some dude out in the bush somewhere in some country who is whatever, he's got the skull of some rodent, and a little fire made of twigs, and you don't want to fuck with that guy. He's never heard of any of this shit you're talking about? It is totally my take. I also think that if we look at it historically, that's the history of magic, except for the last equivalent of 10 minutes. So, people want to go, "Well, this is the thing." Yeah, for the last few hundred years, and that's a blip. That's, of course, my take. Take whatever you want. Fabeku: I was talking to somebody. I made some planetary magic talismans and turned out remarkably potent and effective. They were saying, "Oh, but, when you made them, this planet was doing this thing in the sky. So, the talismans should have been fucked. How did you make them and they worked?" I said, "Because, I don't give a fuck what the planets are doing in the sky. It doesn't matter." So, this idea that it's always an influence whether you know it or not, I'm with you, I don't know that that's true. At least, I don't know that it's a prominent enough influence to matter. I think a lot about currents, right? I think that for people immersed in a particular current, the effects or the shaping influence of that current is going to be stronger because you're immersed in it. I'm not saying there's no effect, but it seems to be less of a factor than somebody who is super centered in whatever current is, whether it's astrology or anything else, I think it's the same shit. I think there's this idea that you have to be immersed in a billion different currents and have your eye on them and line them all up in some kind of perfect Venn diagram of magic. That doesn't make any sense to me. One, I don't know if it's doable. Two, I don't know that it is actually necessary for most people. I think it's a weird thing. Going back to the self-improvement stuff, a conversation I had with a client last week, they showed up with all of the shit that they wanted to sort out this magical strategy for. As they were talking, my body started to tighten up. There was just this feeling of grinding and grinding and grinding and it was, "I don't know how to do this, and what to do about this." I said, "Listen, we can circle back to this in a second but"... It was all like, doing more. More money, more this, more that, which is, again, fine, there's nothing wrong with it. I've done a shitload of magic for more stuff, it's fine. But I said, "Have you considered doing magic for more joy, for more flow, for more peace, for more ease, for more creativity?" There was this long silence, and then they started to cry because they never considered that. They came with this To-Do List of, "Okay, help me figure out how to do these 10 things to do more, to optimize, to improve.? I said, "Cool, do that. But, what if you also had more joy in your life, and that was the focus? Especially now as fucked as everything is." I agree, I think that's this weird trap that we get into with the self-improvement stuff. It's just another version of grinding. It's just another version of never being enough. Never having enough, not pushing hard enough. Again, I think in this global moment of all moments, fuck. Let's look at some shit that's not that, let's look at some shit that is ease and peace and coherence and whatever the fuck it is. Because again, I'm going back to the capacity stuff, at some point, you can't expand capacity infinitely enough to just keep grinding on every possible fucking front. It's just not doable. Yeah, I think it's super easy to fall into that shit with magic and everything else. But yeah, it's a mess. Andrew: So I want to circle back to something you said, and then come back to this as well because I want to talk about both. But, I think that, I [inaudible] this way. There was this big push to go back to, is there a singular truth, right? We can't deny that influence of Greek thought and other thought on our culture, right? You know what I mean? If we can go back to those philosophers and see the origin of stuff and see the origin of Western magic, going back to some of that stuff, in certain ways, right? That's cool and dandy and all, right. I think that if we look at the astrologies or other systems, I think that they're holistic models of everything, right, which is amazing. I think that having, and participating in, a holistic model of the universe, magically speaking, is a powerful thing to be engaged with. I think that the thing is that in Kumi, right, Orisha tradition, it's a holistic model of the universe that has no relationship to planets at all. So, if both are describing something, and they're both describing it accurately within their holistic model, it doesn't mean that anything crosses over from those, and whatever that actual experience of the universe or... whatever's going on that we're engaging through one of these models, it's all accounted for in one way or another, right? Aidan: Mm-hmm (affirmative)- Andrew: And, it's not necessarily to say that we could equate, well, Egon said you were having this problem right now, ancestors say you're having this problem right now through divination, astrology says you're having this problem because of whatever, this hard planetary placement in your family situation or whatever, but those things aren't the same. Right? They don't have the same meaning. They don't have the same lived experience. They certainly have very different solutions and approaches, right. I think that this notion, which to some extent goes back to the Greeks and people who are smarter than me about philosophy might trace it further, that there's this true universal core that we can participate in through our intellectual perception. Then, you compound that with, basically, the Victorian era magicians, Golden Dawn, Crowley. All those people who are like, everything is interwoven. Right? Everything is the same and symbolically resonant with each other at some level. I think it's an extension of colonialism and of that Victorian worldview to continue that process. Somebody sent me a list of [inaudible] and how they line up on the tree of life and they're, "What do you think? I'm, "I think this is colonial crap. I think it's not helpful. I think it's completely meaningless and disrespectful to this other completely coherent and self-reliant worldview." It's not to say that there aren't philosophical things or similarities that we could talk about the crossover those things, but I think that the minute that we start to say that one is inherently true, or that those bridges are inherently true, I think that we start to get into very dicey waters, and probably we're wrong. Does that make sense? Aidan: Yeah, totally. This came up recently in the Six Ways group, that somebody was saying that their background is in Western magical Kabbalah. Andrew: Yeah. Aidan: They were, "I'm having trouble mapping this kind of elements, middle world, world above, world below to that map." It's, because they're not talking about same thing. You can find somebody, I'm sure, who can give you something that says that this is, but if we look at it, the model that I'm using is rooted on, what would now be considered, very primitive people's viewpoints of the world. This was not folks who were trying to work out mathematics of language in the written word, this is a totally different thing. They were just looking at, what do we see and what do we interact with, and what is that thing? It's not a map of something that you fit everything into? It's not a tool to categorize. It's, these are places you can interact with, or beings you can interact with that dwell in those places. In that sense, it's, yes, it's a metaphorical model, but it's not trying to be a universal model. It's, if you want to know what the underworld is, go there and learn that thing. You're not going to be able to map enough information on top of that lack of experience to make up for that experience, right? It's, again, it's nothing against any of the systems, it's just realizing that they are not all the same. Like you said, with the Orisha tradition and the tree of life, they're not the same thing. They're not intended to do the same things. They're not experiential tellings of the same event, however you want to view it. I think it's a very interesting thing. I wanted to also tap into what Fabeku said because I'm also a total current guy. So, I'm going to do the work when I need to do the work, and when the allies are on board with it. That may be related to what's going on in the heavens, I don't know, but I'm certainly not going to start work based on what I think that is according to what somebody tells me is going on astrologically if the allies aren't going, "This is a good time to do that." But, if they'll say, hey, it's a go, and everybody else is, it's total shit city, it's, I don't care what you're seeing because my people say, it's a go and maybe we need to do this thing in total shit city. Again, what does that have to do with optimal. Sometimes it's shit city and you've still got to work. Fabeku: It's the title of your third book, Shit City. Aidan: Shit City. No, at least the subtitle. Fabeku: I totally get what you're talking about, Andrew, with the colonialism kind of thing, right? Because, I remember having a conversation with somebody, I was talking about was Oshun, the Orisha, and they were saying, "Oh, yeah, I totally get it because I've worked with Venus for however long. I'm, "What the fuck does that have to do with what I just said? I'm not talking about Venus, I'm talking about Oshun." They said, "It's the same thing." I said, "It's not the same fucking thing. It's not the same thing. They're entirely different." Are there places that, like you said, might crossover or ping a little bit? Sure, But, it's not the same thing. It's weird to me that we apply it with shit like this, but we don't say, well, this river is the same as that river or that ocean is the same as that creek, or a rose is the same as an orchid. It's not the fucking same. Sure, they both have roots, they grow in soil, they're flowers, so they're similar in that way. But beyond that, it's not the same shit, right. I think, at best, it's sloppy thinking, at worst, it's all sorts of other shit, when we start pretending that this is that, is that, is that, and it's all different names for the same shit. I don't think that's true. I think it's it's lazy thinking, right, because it's convenient to say, Oh, well, no, I know Oshun because I know Venus, so I know Aphrodite. So, but that's not real. I think then when we do that, we miss the nuance, we miss the capacity to build a relationship that's coherent with whatever we're building a relationship with. Because, that would be like me saying, well, Andrew and Aidan are the same. No, you're not. Andrew: [inaudible] start with A. [crosstalk]- Fabeku: Exactly, right. Aidan: We wear glasses and we have tattoos. All the evidence is there. Fabeku: For sure. We don't do that in this way, but we do it with magic. I think it's a total failure of perception, and logic and relationship and understanding and nuance, and I'm just unconvinced that it works. Andrew: Well, I think, as animism has resurfaced as a world model in certain pockets of the occult communities, I think that people are starting to understand that all of these plants are people, right. All of these stones and places, that they are their own things. I think that we haven't extended that to spirits, right? To say that, does Oshun have their own concrete specific existence, right? Sure. Beyond that, even, Fabeku's Oshun has its own concrete, specific, singular, individual manifestation that's different than my Oshun. Right? Not just because, maybe, our paths are different, or maybe this or that or who it came from, no, it's own distinct, separate living entity that is not the same as all the rest of them and there are relationships and, within religion, there are those, well, they're all Oshuns. But you know, Eleggua versus [inaudible] versus whatever, they're all different. The priests who have those Orisha's, each of those Oshuns has their own character, right, because they're their own people. Right. I think it's a place where the magical community... I'm going to be curious to see if there is a point at which people stop doing this and start really holding that devotion to Kali or to whoever without any sense of crossover, and, so on. I think it'll be very interesting to see what comes of it, if anything. Fabeku: I think even beyond spirits... spirits in the usual sense, if we go to plants as people, you and I can talk about our experiences with rose or with sunflower or with gardenia or with mandrake. I'm willing to bet that your experience with rose is different than mine. Maybe they overlap in places, but there's nuances, there's differences, right? Just like two different people that know you are going to experience you in different ways. It's the same thing, which is where I think the common logic of, okay, well, what does rose do, what does rose quartz do, what is amethyst? I don't know, what the fuck does it do for you? I can talk about what it does for me and that might have nothing at all to do with your relationship with it. that might have nothing to do with whether that stone person or plant person will work magic with you, the type of magic that it works, how well you get on with that particular spirit. That's the thing. I was just talking about this yesterday when I was teaching, there's a worldview problem, right, because we think that what does rose do, is a real question. It's not really a real question. But, we keep answering it, and so we're perpetuating the idea that it's a real question, but I don't think in practice it is. Andrew: Yeah, I think it's true, plants, in the same way it's true of Orisha, within the traditional context, within traditional context of their religion, we don't say, "Oh, you've got a problem with work, who's the Orisha of work who's going to fix this thing for you, right?" We say, "You have a problem with work, will anybody come forward to fix this for you?" Maybe, it's an Orisha that we associate with work, like Ogun. Or maybe, Obatala is, "I've got you, brother, don't worry. You're covered. Give me this and we'll be good." The answer's to those are super nuanced by divination, by Odu, by story, by knowledge of Ebo, like, offerings, and so many things that are impossible from the outside. Those kinds of ways of working, only, can exist within the traditional context, I think. In the same way, burdock is a really close friend of mine. Me and burdock, we're tight. And, the things that burdock and I have had conversations and done, have nothing to do with traditional associations, but it is also a source of power that can be applied in many directions, if the spirit of the plant is amenable, right? It's, yeah, maybe spearmint would be better at getting you some luck right now. It's a more traditional association, right? "But, you know what, I'm going to work a little extra hard, because it's not my area of expertise, but I'm still going to make it happen for you." Problem solved, right. Fabeku: Well, I think the other super relevant point of what you said is that, not only is that the way to do it, but it's an individual thing. So, all three of us could have problems with work, all three of us could sit in Divine and get entirely different solutions to how to fix the work shit, even if the works shit looks the same. Right? So, one of the things that happens a lot when I'll do some divination in a private space of mine, when I post them, I get the question... It's not a criticism of anybody that asked the question, but I'll answer somebody's question... usually I'll include some magical stuff to do, and, inevitably, people will say, "Oh"... Well, let's say somebody's asking about a relationship thing and then we talk about whatever the solution is, inevitably, somebody will come along and say, "Oh, is this a thing that anybody can do for relationship stuff?" No, it's not. Listen, I don't know, maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. But, this was a specific solution given to a specific person with a specific problem based on these cards that were pulled. It's not, here's the cure-all for everybody with a relationship problem. It's one conversation, one relationship in this moment. Again, to me, that's the way that this shit really works. But, if we try to turn that into, oh, well, this thing will do the same shit for everybody having a relationship thing. I don't think that's real. I think if it does work, I think we've gotten lucky. But, I don't think that's an indicator that it's some universal solution. I get it- Andrew: [crosstalk], you can be the same solution for the same person down the road- Fabeku: Exactly- Andrew: On the same spot, right? Fabeku: Right. It is a very specific solution to that person, with this thing, with me, in this conversation, in this moment. Aidan: Absolutely. Yeah. That's, I think, the thing that I hit on a lot with people, and even with people with Six Ways that have got that, we'll be trying to figure out, "I'm now working on this, but I haven't got here yet, and I feel bad that I haven't got here yet." I'm, "Don't do that. Just find a way in. That's the whole idea here, is find a way into anything that works for you, and see where you can go with it." Because, that's where you get that depth. Then, you go, "Oh, yeah." I've got people saying I need to talk to the goats or I need to talk to some deity and or I need to get right with... to do some stuff to remediate some astrological influences, but maybe you can do all of the things that you need to do with your allies that you don't even know their names, that you just make offerings to and that's your only relationship, and all that you might have to do, is to go in and go, "This is hard, I need help with this or I would like to more capacity for joy in this because I feel really just fucked up by what's going on", right. For everybody that I know that figures this piece out, they're really good magicians, with the work that they do works for them, and that doesn't have anything to do. Some of them know everything about everything, and some of them know nothing, essentially, from that other person's point of view. So, it is, it's about current, it's about relationship, it's about that reality of context. So, that, yeah, you and I could both be having trouble getting our point of view across to our partners, and it could have, on the surface, in the way we describe it, in the way we describe that it feels, it can all seem exactly the same, and it could be totally not the same. I think this is going on constantly. It has to, right? But, magic tends to go, here's the formula to fix this. I've not really ever seen that to be true. It was, realizing, oh, if I'm just playing within the structure of, what Jason called zone rights... So this was, for me, LBR star ruby-based stuff, just as the shape of the operation, not using those words forever, but I figured out I could do all of the various operations that I read about in the magical books using these, even without learning all the different pentagrams. I wasn't doing that, I was doing incredibly basic versions of it. It's, no, I can connect to the powers and the quarters and the above and below and then put forward that I want help healing this or help this person out in their relationship, right, because I was building relationship with my allies and with that current. So, yeah, great. So, Hermanubis is the one who does that. I don't know that guy, why would I go there? I've people saying, "Yeah, we got it." It's, I don't know if they are the ones who do that. They say they are and I have faith in them, so I'll go that route. Fabeku: Yeah, maybe it's time for faith to make a comeback. How about that? [crosstalk]. What would that look like in the magical world, right? Aidan: Man. What is faith if you don't have religion? Fabeku: Good question. Aidan: What is your faith in? Fabeku: Uh-huh (affirmative)- Aidan: Or rather, what is your faith for, which might be the better question. Andrew: Really, the only answer to that should be, everybody's face should be in Stacking Skulls. In Stacking Skulls we trust. Stack them 23 high, and you're good. Everything [crosstalk]. The world will unlock, [crosstalk] will open. Aidan: Once the stack gets taller than you, while you're standing up, things get better. Andrew: Right. Back to my mind, we went on this lovely detour into things and I'm still, all right, but, what the hell? What the hell, universe? What the hell, 2020? What the hell is going to go on? Does anybody find feel like they're doing stuff or needing to do stuff? Maybe this is just a reiteration of the capacity conversation, but to just manage themselves through this time. You know? Aidan: I definitely have some of that. Again, we talked about that earlier for me, backing off of the internet and connectivity and just going, Oh, yeah, I really like fooling around on the guitar for hours. I like talking to my wife for hours. Then, being really aware. In our house, we have this saying that, that the end of the world is happening all the time. But, sometimes it's very obvious for the people that it's happening in because it's clearly catastrophic, right. But, it's happening. It's ending, it's reforming, it's changing. I think, right now, is a really interesting moment because it's so clear that it's changing in a really huge way for a lot of people. I don't think, we, in America... using the US term of America, which is totally wrong, but I'm going to do it here, because that's the language that's most appropriate here in America... I don't think all of this stuff has piled in on each other simultaneously in such an obvious and unrelenting way. So, it is. It seems clear to me that we're in a really major crisis point, at least in North America, which is what I can see in the United States primarily. It is an interesting thing, because if I look forward or in backwards, I can see the roots of the moment we're in, I can see logical outcomes, I can see outcomes that I would prefer, I can see the potential backlashes to the outcomes that I would prefer, right. That's, I think, what's really interesting to me, is, I see, because we're in this election cycle and because things have been so insane politically here... I hope that people aren't assuming that if we have a change in the presidency, that that will fix what's going on. Because, we've had a whole lot of changes in the presidencies and they have not fixed what's going on. Andrew: Yeah. Aidan: So, yes, I would think that that would be a step in the right direction, for sure, but then you got to step on the gas at that point, if you want to see a lasting and real change. That's step one. Andrew: Yeah, for sure, right. Because, if there's a change in the presidency, that's great. But, that doesn't automatically change the system, and that systemic piece of stuff. The piece that is [inaudible]. Yeah. I've been going back to an old mantra of mine, which I've adapted slightly for this situation. It goes like this, other people's urgency doesn't need to be my urgency. I think that because there's so much going on right now, there are a lot of people who have a lot of urgency around stuff, right. I remember, when my first godfather always used to say... because he ran a store and was a really well-known psychic in the Detroit area, and he used to say, "Look, if it's an emergency, you call 911. Otherwise, you can make an appointment and come see me whenever you can come and see." I've been working to not act with urgency, because I think that when stuff is as wonky and strange as it is, consideration and pacing and time and respecting capacity, and all those kinds of things, is super helpful, super important, I think. So, it's really, well, that's cool and all, but I'm not going to run around for this, I'm not going to run around for whatever. With my kids too, it's, is there an actual emergency, or is there some discomfort that maybe I'ma let you sit with for a bit so you can learn how to sit with discomfort instead of jumping into things, right? It's an imperfect science, for sure. Right? It's just a general approach. But, I think that, yeah, that, I can't run around on this. I can't make myself do whatever. I can just do what I can do and I'm going to own my own directive around that, right. Sometimes I might be looking at something like, yeah, that is really urgent, I should jump on that. I should push myself to do that, even though I know there'll be a falling for it someway. But, yeah, that's been my thing. Fabeku: I think, for me, it's been, because the clients stuff has been super busy, I've had to figure out a way beyond what I did previous to this, too, to not absorb that high-level, constant anxiety, angst, panic, fear, whatever it is, because, after a few weeks of that shit when all this stuff really ramped up, I just felt like I'd been through the blender. It's, okay, well, this is not ending anytime soon, and I'm happy to support people, and this can't be the way it goes. This can't be the way it goes. I think that's probably been the biggest piece, for me, was figuring out how to keep how to keep that capacity, but also how to not end up, at the end of the day or the end of the week, feeling like I've just been taken apart with this stuff. So, part of that has been magical practice, part of that has been mundane stuff, part of it has just been, okay, realistically, given this intensity, this is how many times a week I can have conversations with people that are really difficult and adjusting accordingly. Like you said, in some ways, not giving in to that, okay, but there's more people. There's 10 spots and 30 people, so let me figure out how to get 30 spots. That's not the answer, because then we end up back with coffee all day, caffeine pills, nonsense shit, right. So, it really is like, this is what I can do and do it well, do it effectively, and also not be dismantled at the end of this, and it is what it is. That's it. There's no more space, there's no more bandwidth. There's no more room to fuck around with a calendar. Andrew: Hmm, yeah. Aidan: I think that that thing too, which is what you brought on, the realizing where you've got to back down, or ramp things down, is really important, because there is so much out there, just saying, no, just go harder. Grind. There's times for that, but all of them all of them are not that time. Andrew: For sure. By where I go climbing... it's probably not surprising, it's an industrial building and there's some CrossFit type stuff in there, right? One of them has something painted on their garage door to their space. I think it says, "Somebody with less time than you is working out right now." I'm, that's cool. Good, for fuckin' [inaudible]. You know what I mean? A couple years ago, I shifted my climbing goals to be, still be climbing at the end of the year. That's my climbing goal, right. I have some very loose... I'd like to be able to consistently climb 5.8, 5.9. I'd like to be able to cycle 40 kilometers, 50 kilometers anytime. There's some very loose things that are indicators to me that I'm spending enough time being active to be able to continue being active, and that I believe that those things are good for me. Not in and of themselves, because they're indicators of a broader attention to my health, right. Am I ever going to climb super higher levels than I'm climbing right now, I have no idea. Maybe, probably not. Does it matter? It doesn't matter. Am I always going to be able to cycle as far as I can cycle today? I'm doing a lot of distance cycling. Nah, probably not. There'll be times where I'm, I can't cycle that far right now. It doesn't matter. You know? Just keep showing up. Keep showing up. Keep doing the stuff to rest and recharge to show up. Aidan: Yep, absolutely. I've definitely had to make adaptations on all of that stuff just because I'm getting smart enough to go, oh, this isn't really doing what I want it to do. So, instead of more, what does less do? I'm working out about half as much as I used to, and it's working better because my body can recover from that better. Interesting, okay. Andrew: It makes sense, right? It makes sense. Well, maybe, we'll wrap it up here. I assume everybody knows where everybody is, but just in case, Aidan, where do people find you? Aidan: You can find me at aidanwachter.com and as Aidan Wachter on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook, whatever that other one is. Andrew: What's the name of your podcast, that people search? Aidan: My podcast is called Aidan Wachter Six Ways. It's up on Google, Stitcher, Apple, and someone else... I can't think who the other one is right now, but it's generally out there in the main places. Andrew: I hear it gets heavy rotation in the underworld, so you can just go there and listen to it. Aidan: Exactly, you can find it down there. Yeah, you can get my books at all the major retailers. Andrew: Fabeku? Fabeku: Fabeku.com, Facebook, and, yeah, the book will be out in October with Revelore. Andrew: It's exciting. Aidan: I'm stoked about that. Fabeku: Hmm, me too. Andrew: Yeah, and, obviously, I'm the Hermit's Lamp everywhere. Podcast is the Hermit's Lamp Podcast everywhere. I didn't talk about it, really, in this, but I'll throw it out here at the end. I'm going to be launching a Kickstarter for my next Oracle deck, which has the title of the Bacon Wizard Breakfast Oracle. So, if you like food and you like divination, I can certainly... I was going to launch it, actually, back in March. My original timeline was end of March, Kickstarter, but obviously didn't do that. But, it's going to be end of September, early October, Kickstarter for that, and you can check it out on my website and other places as I'm building up to that. So, all right. Thanks, folks. Have a great rest of your day. Aidan: Thanks for having us. Andrew: Oh, my pleasure.
Yorubas unarguably are one of the majority ethnic group in Nigeria. This African narrative told with humor and suspense will delight the listener with its wealth of details of the Yoruba's belief of how all things were created, including humans, by a pantheon called Obatala through the help of other gods. Every beat reveals the several deeds of some of this pantheon when and after humans were created...
Yorubas unarguably are one of the majority ethnic group in Nigeria. This African narrative told with humor and suspense will delight the listener with its wealth of details of the Yoruba's belief of how all things were created, including humans, by a pantheon called Obatala through the help of other gods. Every beat reveals the several deeds of some of this pantheon when and after humans were created...
Yorubas unarguably are one of the majority ethnic group in Nigeria. This African narrative told with humor and suspense will delight the listener with its wealth of details of the Yoruba's belief of how all things were created, including humans, by a pantheon called Obatala through the help of other gods. Every beat reveals the several deeds of some of this pantheon when and after humans were created...
Dr. Monica A. Coleman is back on the podcast and it is fun ride! Adam Clark and I were thrilled to welcome her as a special guest in the Black Theology Reading Group. Monica A. Coleman is committed to connecting faith and social justice. She is a widely sought speaker and preacher on the topics of mental health and faith, sexual violence and church responses, liberation theologies, and religious pluralism. An ordained elder in the African Methodist Episcopal Church and priestess of Obatala and Osun in traditional Yoruba religion, Coleman has earned degrees at Harvard University, Vanderbilt University and Claremont Graduate University. Coleman is Professor of Africana Studies at the University of Delaware. Check out all her books here. Previous Podcast Visits from Dr. Coleman Spiritual Terrorism and Liberation with Monica Coleman 5 Reasons to Go Process, theologically speaking w/ Monica Coleman Christian Feminist Theology with Elizabeth Johnson, Monica Coleman, and Cindy Rigby Special Bonus Episode: Cynthia Rigsby, Monica A. Coleman, and Scott MacDougall Womanist Theology Goes Process with Monica Coleman BONUS TRACK: Process Theology Q&A with Monica Colemann, Doug Pagitt, & Julie Clawson What is Process Theology? Let Monica A. Coleman Tell You! Follow the podcast, drop a review, send feedback/questions or become a member of the HBC Community. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Iya Dr. Funlayo E. Wood-Menzies, is your favorite Ifa-orisa scholar priestess bringing love and light to the community through academic and spiritual programming. Currently a Postdoctoral Fellow in the Center for Black Studies Research at the University of California, Santa Barbara, she earned a Ph.D. from Harvard University and an M.A. in History from the City College of New York. An initiate of Obatala and Iyanifa, she is delighted to contribute her voice as a scholar-practitioner and is dedicated to combining scholarship with social praxis. A native of New York City, Iya Funlayo has conducted research in Nigeria, Ghana, Cuba, Trinidad, Peru, and the United States. Her research on Ifa-Orisa and other African and diasporic traditions centers epistemology, gender and sexuality, healing, and intersections between religion, science, and technology. She serves as the managing editor of the Africana Studies Review and her work has been published in academic and popular venues including the Journal of Africana Religions, Crosscurrents, and the Journal of Interreligious Studies, and Medium. Committed to public scholarship, Iya Dr. Funlayo consistently seeks to share her knowledge beyond the ivory tower. She lectures regularly and was featured in the PBS documentary, Sacred Journeys: Osun-Osogbo (2014) and an episode of National Geographic's The Story of God with Morgan Freeman (2017). She is the founding director of the African and Diasporic Religious Studies Association (ADRSA) and of Ase Ire, an Ifa-Orisa temple and Communiversity. Payment Links; Cashapp: $Funlayo, Venmo: @FunlayoW, Email: Funlayo@aseire.com --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/the-full-set-podcast/support --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/the-full-set-podcast/support
Nate and Roger come swinging at the forces of darkness in this episode, The First Serbian Vampire and Other Stories to Tell in the Dark. Nate begins with informing us of the "first" Serbian Vampire, Petar Blagojević and ends with a recent vampire emergency involving a homeless vampire due to a water mill collapsing. Roger wraps up the episode by continuing as his educational journey of African Gods; this week, Obatala! Jordan, while on a road trip, picked up some amethyst from the Rocky Mountains and is now in the possession of the Purple Bishops. Enjoy the episode and remember to punch the sky! -------------------------------- If you laughed, loved, or lived because of this episode, consider becoming a Patron and supporting the team! You'll get access to exclusive content and other, mysterious rewards, so check it out for more info. Thanks to Chuck Coffey for our snappy little theme song, and, as always: Punch the sky, Spaceman Joe! Twitter Facebook Patreon
Baba Ifabiyi, Nelson Alvarez was born in Habana Cuba and was initiated to Obatala and to Ifa by the customs of the Regla de Ocha-Ifa in Cuba 40 years ago. Baba Nelson later travelled to Mexico DF, Mexico where he became the Vice-President of the Sociedad Yoruba de Mexico under Leonel Gamez, Oshe Niwo. He later founded the Ifa World Conference, a nonprofit organization focused on research on the Ifa and Orisa practice from a Lineage in Lagos studying both the language, practice and customs and reconciling them with the Afro-Cuban practice. Ifaworld Conference, has worked with the Consejo Cultural Yoruba de Canada and also the VODOUN-FA BOKONON ABOMALE-KPENGLA Community of Uruguay to also study and compare practices between Fa-Gbassa Vodoun Fa and Regla Ocha-Ifa of Cuba. Baba Ifabiyi, Nelson Alvarez nació en La Habana, Cuba y fue iniciado en Obatala y en Ifa por las costumbres de la Regla de Ocha-Ifa en Cuba hace 40 años. Baba Nelson viajó más tarde a México DF, México, donde se convirtió en el Vicepresidente de la Sociedad Yoruba de México bajo Leonel Gamez, Oshe Niwo. Más tarde fundó Ifaworld Conference, una organización sin fines de lucro centrada en la investigación sobre la práctica de Ifá y Orisa de un Linaje en Lagos que estudia el idioma, la práctica y las costumbres y los reconcilia con la práctica afrocubana. La Conferencia Mundial de Ifa, ha trabajado con el Consejo Cultural Yoruba de Canadá y también con la Comunidad VODOUN-FA BOKONON ABOMALE-KPENGLA de Uruguay para estudiar y comparar prácticas entre Fa-Gbassa Vodoun Fa y Regla Ocha-Ifa de Cuba. We look forward to having you tune-into our broadcasts every Friday, @ 8 pm EST live on Facebook. Esperamos que pueda sintonizar nuestra transmisión los viernes a las 8 pm EST en vivo en Facebook.
Sam Shadow - Mage, Musician And Crowned Child of Obatala - speaks with Keats about their wonderful journey into various pantheons of magick, identity and creativity.
Chief Oluwo Obafemi Fayemi Epega aka Baba Femi has his thoughts. #GetOnCode - Will Jesus Fix It? (A theological question). #GetOnCode - Higher #Covid19 rates, Systemic issues, political neglect, domestic violence, higher #poverty rates, lower academic scores, higher unprepared parenthood rates, higher self-hate, etc. Will Jesus or #Christianity provide answers and actions to solve the problems that WE face in OUR communities? Seko's question isn't "Can Jesus fix it?", his question is "WILL Jesus fix it". Chief Oluwo Obafemi Fayemi Epega has his thoughts. Chief Oluwo Obafemi Fayemi Epega is a world-renowned #Babalawo and the founder of O.I.D.S.I. (Obafemi Institute for the Divine & Universal Study of Ifa). He was initiated as a #priest of #Obatala in January 2004, and received his Tefa in February 2005 from the late Oluwo Dr. Afolabi Epega at the Epega Compound in Akure, Ondo State, Nigeria. He strongly believes that the restoration and preservation of African divine sciences and traditions can restore psychological balance and personal empowerment to all people. Interested in sponsoring the podcast? Email TheFlyGuysShow@gmail.com . On Code (formerly The Fly Guy Show) is a series of Conscious Melaninated conversations focused on solving OUR situations via #Empowerment. Led by the Power Broker @SekoVarner, with a host of Fly Folk and Platformers, OUR show gives you stuff you need to know with an underlying focus on Black (Afro-Melaninated) Economics, Uplift, and politics. Join us with yOUR comments as WE discuss Uplift, Conscious Consumerism, Business activity, Social progress, and Community activism with fellow investors, educators, business people, authors, content creators, and community activists. #EmpowermentAgenda --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/get-on-code/message
Obatala usa uma coroa com penas de ekodide e realiza seu sonho
In the interview made by the Cuban essayist Miguel Barnet, Esteban Montejo, a former runaway, recounts his life as a slave in the Cuban Plantation Flor de Sagua. Later we explore slavery in the Cuban plantations and how Haiti’s abolition and conquest of self-government affected the slave trade and the sugar industry in Cuba. Read the transcript
En la entrevista realizada por el ensayista cubano Miguel Barnet, Esteban Montejo, un cimarrón, relata su vida como esclavo en la Plantación Cubana Flor de Sagua. Más adelante exploramos la esclavitud en las plantaciones cubanas y cómo la abolición y la conquista del autogobierno de Haití afectaron el comercio de esclavos y la industria azucarera en Cuba. Lee la transcripción
The Hermit's Lamp Podcast - A place for witches, hermits, mystics, healers, and seekers
Eni and Andrew discuss how to approach traditional religions from a place of respect. They explore some misunderstandings and how to get around them. They also talk about the realities of practicing from a distance. Both share from their journey in two different lineages in two countries. This conversation is important in the wider dialogue of appropriation going now around traditional knowledge. Be sure to check out the bonus episode on proverbs around this topic for Patreon supporters here. If you want more of this in your life you can subscribe by RSS , iTunes, Stitcher, or email. You can book time with Andrew through his site here. You can find Eni on her site here or Facebook here. Andrew is as always here. Thanks for joining the conversation. Please share the podcast to help us grow and change the world. Andrew Transcript Andrew: Welcome to another episode of The Hermit's Lamp podcast. I am here today with Eni Acho, who is an Orisha practitioner and priestess. She runs a wonderful Facebook group, but also ... website's called About Santeria, where there are lots of great conversations about the traditional practices and approaching the traditional practices of Orisha traditions, especially centered in Cuba. I think that given what I've seen more and more online and other places in conversations with people, this conversation about how do we approach a traditional religion as outsiders, is one that I think is really important. Andrew: I think that there's a lot of misunderstandings, I know I had a lot of misunderstandings or misconceptions about what things might be like. I think that these dialogues are important and obviously for my own personal tradition, but I also think that some of these conversations apply to any other traditional religion that you might approach as well. Eni, for those who don't know you, give us the lowdown. Who are you? What are you up to? Eni: Hi. My full Ocho name is Eni Acho Iya, which means the yellow dress of my mother. That's because I'm crowned to Oshun. Oshun is always associated with the color yellow. I was crowned in Palmira, Cuba and my lineage is called Palmira lineage. It's called the countryside or [inaudible 00:01:47] in Cuba to distinguish it from maybe what you might find in Havana or Mantanzas. But Palmira is one of the traditional centers of the Lucumi religion in Cuba. It was founded by the descendants of slaves who were taken to that part of Cuba to work in the sugarcane fields. After they were emancipated, they founded their own town, Palmira. Eni: It has three of the most traditional and oldest Lucumi religious societies in Cuba. The Sociedad Santa Barbara, Sociedad San Roque, and mine, the Sociedad el Cristo which is associated with the Sevilla family. A lot of people who practice Ifa know the name of [inaudible 00:02:30] or [inaudible 00:02:32] famous Babalawo's from Palmira. And that's my religious family, the Sevilla family. So I guess that's probably who I am, religiously speaking. And I've been running this website "About Santeria" for around six years, I think. As an educational website that aleyo's, outsiders can go to, to get basic questions answered. And just recently I created this page you referred to on Facebook so people can discuss some of the ideas. I'd like to invite anyone who's interested to take a look at that and welcome to the community if you decide to join us. It's a good community. I think lots of very knowledgeable priests in there and good conversations are taking place, so I'm happy with that. Andrew: I think it's great. There's lots of really knowledgeable priests, which is a great part of the equation. They're all, at least all the ones that I know, personally or through online interactions, they're all really solid people as well. Which is a really important part of that conversation too, right? Just because people know something doesn't necessarily mean anything anymore. There's this distinction that can happen between those things. That's one of the things that I also dig about that space and why I'm actually hanging out there as opposed to other spaces, where maybe people know stuff, but their character isn't as inspiring to me. Andrew: One of the things that I find really interesting is this idea of the distinction between what's going on now in a general way, and how stuff was a little while ago, or how things still are in certain parts of the world. Right? So you're from ... your practice and your connection, your family is in Palmira. What's it like there to sort of be born there and live there and practice this religion from that place, from a sort of real traditional community structure? Eni: I feel really fortunate to have had glimpses into everyday life there. I've been going there for over 20 years. And because of my work, I've been able to go and spend considerable amounts of time, like three months at a time, six months at a time, because my university here in Washington state has an exchange program with the university of Cienfuegos. And as an academic, that gave me a license, as ... the United States, it's not always that easy to go to Cuba, but because of my academic license, I've been able to go to Cuba pretty often, spend a lot of time there and really get to know the people very well. I've literally seen a whole generation of people grow up and I know what it's like from their point of view to be born there and be surrounded by this community. Eni: And I think it's important for your listeners to understand that this need that we have as outsiders, as people living in a different culture, we're always thinking, "how can I get in to that community"? Or "how can I get into the religion How do I find my way there"? It's always this destination or goal that people are looking for. And the big difference to me is that for people in Palmira, you're already there. You don't have to look for anything. It's all around you. It's in the air you breathe. And that's not to say that every single person that lives in the town is initiated in a religion, they're not, but certainly their neighbors are, or their cousin or their aunt or their grandma, people down the street. It's everywhere around you. And so if you have a concern, if you want to go get a reading done, you don't have to wonder where can I find a Babalow, where can I find a Santero? They're right there. And everybody knows them. Eni: There's a lot of accountability because literally these same people have lived there and their ancestors have lived there for 150 years and everybody knows who everybody is. Small town in Cuba, you don't have secrets. And I think that that makes it a really different experience because I've seen babies in their mother's arms at drumming ceremonies, because our ceremonies, our drumming for example, tend to be open to the public, people who live in Palmira, everybody comes and the whole family comes. So you have babies that can't even walk yet in their mothers' arms who are keeping time to the rhythm of the drum. And they are totally comfortable in that environment and they grow up with that. I've seen four year olds playing with their little stuffed animals, their bunny rabbits and teddy bears, and they're acting out an ocha ceremony that they've seen their parents do. So when you grow up with it all around you, that takes away a lot of the mystery. So it's not secretive. It's not hard to find. It's there. Eni: Our tradition in Palmira tends to be, for the most part, that we don't initiate very young children. Most people, if their family is religious, everybody in their family tends to get initiated, but they always leave it up to the individual to decide once they reach a certain level of maturity. And so typically you'll find people not getting initiated until maybe they're in their early twenties. That's changing. People now are doing more younger children, but we believe that it's not everybody's destiny to be initiated. That has to be something that's determined on an individual basis. But there are lots and lots of families where half the brothers and sisters are initiated, half aren't, and the cousin show up and they help out with the cooking and the cleaning before and after the ceremony. So everybody is involved in it and everybody feels connected to it, whether they're initiated or not. It's very comfortable. It's very organic and natural to just have it there. And that's such a different experience from what most of us outside Cuba. Andrew: I was in Matanzas last year playing for egun, for my godmother, passed away. Some of the things that struck me were, first of all, everybody knows everybody as you say. Right? You know, we're driving around the city with my godfather and he's like, "Hey, pull over" he leans out the window and has conversation with somebody and they'd keep going. Secondly, I don't know about architecturally in Palmira, but in Matanzas there are no windows on the windows, the doors are open. It's hot and you want those breezes. And so we're there doing the formal meal that's part of the ceremony and neighborhood kids who people know, or maybe they're children of people who are there, drift in, say hi, act like kids and run at the back and go and get some sweets or some food-[crosstalk 00:10:08] and they leave. Andrew: We were doing the drum in the front room and there's no ... the window's open and people are just walking by looking. People are walking by and they'll just start having a conversation with somebody who's there that they know. And it's very different than my experience of other things which it's done in somebody's house probably in their basements where do you see it? You don't see it anywhere. Right? As opposed to there. And also, as you say, driving around, you drive around and Oh, is that another drum going on over there? Oh yeah, it is. We should go by, Oh, is that another drum going on over there? There you go. You know? Eni: It's exactly like that in Palmira and it's hard to hide a drumming ceremony when the houses are so close together and all the doors are wide open. And everybody kind of spills out into the street and that interaction you were describing what the kids coming and going and people coming in and out all day. That happens literally every single day. When I'm in Palmira, I feel like I'm sitting in my godmother's house but it's like a train station with people coming and going and just, "Hey, what's going on?" and "anything going on?" And they have, you maybe know this expression in Spanish, radeo bemba, which means word of mouth, how the word spreads really quickly from person to person. So if somebody is going to have a drumming or somebody who's got an ocha birthday party or whatever's going on, everybody in the town knows everybody and they're very likely to just go by and drop in And see what's going on. Andrew: I think that this sort of leads to this idea of what does it look like to, as I said, is what are we looking to arrive in? I mean, really one of the things that we're looking for, whether we understand it or not when we start out is, we're looking to be welcomed into somebody's family. Eni: Yes. Andrew: We are looking to build a relationship and a connection hopefully to the community, to those people. I was at an event, I'd been hanging out with the Orisha community in Michigan where I was initiated 19 years now, 20 years, a long time. And we were having a conversation and somebody mentioned something and I'm like, "I was there when ... I helped make that person, I helped make that person, I helped make this person. I was there when this person was made, but I wasn't made yet". And there's this like longevity of connection, right? Whereas a lot of people sometimes come to these things with this idea that you're going to just arrive and be welcomed in, just arrive and suddenly everything's great or just arrive and you suddenly can get access or get recognized or whatever. But it's not really that way. I mean ideally it's not that way, right? Eni: No, you're absolutely right. And I think that a lot of this has to do with our understanding and we use the words in our religion. We talk about aleyo's, outsiders, strangers literally. And people in our culture tend to find that a little bit offensive. They think that means that they're not welcome. But in Cuba, that's not what it means. We simply differentiate for ceremonial purposes the people who are initiated, the Oloricha's. They have a certain role, a certain function, they do certain things. And if you're not initiated, you do other things and the rules are not identical. There is a hierarchy there. Not based on your worth as an individual or how smart you are or anything else. It's just are you initiated or not initiated? If you are, go in that room, if you're not going the other room. Right? Eni: I think Americans and, I don't know, maybe Canadians as well, people from outside that culture had a really hard time with that because we here in the U.S. where I live, we have such a consumer mentality and we identify something that we want and then we think "I'm going to get it. It's my decision, it's my choice. I'm in control of the process, here's my money, how much does it cost? Here's the money, okay, now I have it and it's mine." And they expect some kind of immediate acceptance or, "now we're the same. Okay. Because I paid my money and I'm just like you." And that is not how it works. Andrew: No, exactly. And that sense of entitlements that can be there is definitely a problem. And I think in two ways. One, as I know you do too, I get contacted by people sometimes who are like, "I need you to crown me" and I'm like, "my friend, I am not ... I don't even know." Why would I choose to incur a lifelong and perhaps more than this lifelong connection with you as being responsible for your spiritual wellbeing and to some extent your practical wellbeing forever, when I've never even met you. You know? So that's the challenge. And then the other side of that, of course, in a world where we're approaching people that we don't know who are not aleyos, but complete strangers irregardless, there's not that community knowledge of you should go see ... whatever, right? It should be because "I think they could be a good person for you, I think they could guide you, this person's a renowned diviner you should go see them." You don't have that connection. Andrew: And so all of these people, no matter what we think we know about them from seeing them on social media, they're all strangers too. And that's where so much of those problematic situations where people will be like, "Sure, yeah, absolutely. You've got the money, just give it to me, we'll be good." And then it's not good because those people on the other side are just looking to take that money and take advantage as well. It's a big problem. Eni: It's a big problem. And I think that a lot of it has to do with the fact that people just get too impatient and they want it now. And a lot of times they don't even know why they want it and they don't even actually know what it is. And so the process always, in my opinion, has to be organic. It has to happen in kind of a natural way, right time, right people, right place. And you can't force it. I think that that's the key thing. You're not in control really. It's going to happen when the Orishas and your egun want it to happen. And the more you push and resist and try to get it all to go your way, I think you're just creating a lot of trouble for yourself. Andrew: One of the expressions that ... I didn't have the pleasure to meet your magua but a very famous oricha who's connected to my godparents ... one of the expressions that I hear, they used to say a lot was, "no, no, what you need to understand is, orisha is the boss here". We as people, we have our say and we get to make our choice. And it doesn't mean we have to accept everything or ... it is a relationship. But at a certain points your orisha needs to be the ones that we trust to dictate and to find the right time and space and, and all of those things. It's like the proverb, "every head is looking for its home". Not every little person, not every house, not everybody's situation is in right alignment for anybody. Right? Maybe someone comes to Palmira and they're like, "Oh, this actually doesn't fit for me". And not pushing there, not trying to push ahead one way or another makes the most sense in that situation. Eni: My own experience I think is a good example of that because I went to Palmira for the first time just because I was invited to somebody's house for dinner and I had absolutely no intention of making ocha there. It wasn't even on the horizon for me. I knew about the religion, I liked it, I was interested in it, but kind of from an academic standpoint. And I went to dinner at a colleagues house, a professor from the university and she introduced me to another professor from the university, her neighbor who lived the next block over and he turned out to be the head of the Sevilla family, a familia who was running a casto at that time. Eni: And I just became friends with that family and visited them for years, just dropping in and having coffee and chatting with them. And I wasn't showing up on the doorstep all the time saying, "teach me about the religion I want in help me, you have to be my godfather. It happened in a very gradual way where I started getting readings. I think most of us began that way where we get readings that guide us. Eni: Then over a long period of time, year. Little by little it came out that I needed to get this or I needed to get that. I got my warriors, I got cofa de orula and then it wasn't until I got cofa de orula [inaudible 00:20:06] in eka, was that I eventually needed to make ocha, and that was really stressed. Eventually, one day before you die. And my godfather said, "Think about it. Don't do it now. You need to kind of wrap your head around this and think about what it means and take your time and do it when you're ready". And I don't know, about four, three or four years later, it just happened like serendipity. That's what we're talking about here. These things just kind of all come together magically almost. I got a sabbatical from my university, I got a scholarship, it was a grant, that paid me to go to Cuba to do this research project I was working on and that turned out to be the gear I was able to make ocha because I was able to be in Cuba. Eni: And that's the experience I wanted with those people that I have known for many, many years and it just happened in a very natural way. And if someone had said to me 15 years earlier, "Oh yes, you're going to go to Palmira and make ocha". I would have said, "what's Palmira I don't even know what you're talking about." Andrew: I think that it's, even for me, I went looking for the religion. I had been explore ... doing Western ceremonial traditions and initiatory groups for a long, long time. And I had sort of hit this place where I felt like I really needed to connect with something deep and traditional. I was trying to figure out what that was, where this was in a pre-internet era. It wasn't like you could just jump on Facebook and find a bunch of things. And eventually I found my way to the community in Michigan and even at that, although I received my elekes and my warriors, I still was involved in that community for eight, nine years before I was crowned. I was one of those things like, "yeah, someday you should do that". Andrew: You should start putting aside your money and when you have the money you should think about doing it. One of the things that I noticed with people I have conversations about it now sometimes is they get to the end of the reading and they're like, "okay, but what do I need to receive? When do I need to make ocha?" One of the questions that I often returned to them with is, "well, is your life horrible? Is your life a hot mess? Are you sick? Are you like having horrible problems? You're reading doesn't say you're magically afflicted? Is there something going on? Your life is a disaster and you need to be saved from it". They're like, "Nope". I'm like, "man just keep living your life and as you need things, stuff will surface if you need things". Andrew: And I think that's another thing that, we don't understand. I didn't understand fully myself, even though I was aware of it going into it, is this notion that within the tradition, these things are medicines of a sort. They're there to either provide very specific kinds of guidance or specific energies or to counter specific energies so that we can live our life to the fullness of our destiny. As opposed to being things that we can collect or accumulate or that give us status or those kinds of things. You know? Eni: That's exactly right. That's how I feel about it too. And, and I think it's hard for people to understand that maybe they don't want to hear it when they're so enthusiastic and so determined that this is going to be their path. That's what they want to do. And one of the things that I hear a lot, and I think you do too, is people get frustrated and say, "okay, you're telling me to be patient, but what am I supposed to do? Just sit here and wait?". They want tips, how can I do something to make me feel like I'm moving forward? And so I actually do have some suggestions if you're determined that you want to learn and do more with this religion, I have some kind of practical tips that might get you started. Andrew: I'd love to hear them. Eni: I break down things into little lists, but I think many people begin with kind of an academic approach to it. So they read books and you mentioned 20 years ago we didn't have as many resources as we have now. Now we have the internet, we have lots more books than we used to have. We have all these religious forums on Facebook and many people are offering online classes of this kind or that kind. And all of those approaches are limited. I think that's the first thing I want to stress is that there's nothing wrong with reading books. There's nothing wrong with reading stuff on the internet, but there are lots of buts attached to that, lots of limitations because yes, there are some good books out there. Fortunately, thank goodness people like Willie Ramos is writing really good books on David Brown and other people who have the credentials and the research methodology down. And what they present is accurate and very good and very helpful. And that's always great to read. Eni: But I remember when I first started looking for books on religion, there are some really wacko books out there because now anybody can publish a book. It's all self publishing. You might go on Amazon and look for books and you might find 20 different titles and you just don't know which ones are good and which ones are not good. You can read the reviews but those are always written by somebody's friend and they don't necessarily tell the truth. You have to be careful when you're reading books too. First of all, evaluate the source. Who is this person writing the book? And if they say magic moon goddess has been practicing 300 world religions for the past year and a half and she's the author of this book on Santeria, I would not necessarily consider her a reliable source because if she's not even initiated what does she know about the religion? Eni: But if it says, "Willie Ramos is a professor of history who wrote his thesis on Havana in the 19th century" and whatever, and he has written these books that are published by university presses and published in scholarly journals. For me, that's an indication that those are serious things that I can read. And even after I read them though, I remember when I first started reading some of those books like David Brown's "Santeria Enthroned". It's a great book. Eni: But I didn't understand it. I was reading it and half of what he was talking about I had no idea what any of that meant and it took me years to realize that I was going to have to piece together all of this information I was accumulating and put it into some meaningful pattern because to my knowledge, there's not one book, a Bible that you just go to and it tells you everything you need to know. Every book will tell you a little bit or something, but nobody's going to tell you the whole story and you have to decide how does this information fit in with other things. You have to analyze it. And the same is true, especially on the internet because there is some good stuff on the internet but there's also a lot of terrible misinformation and the religious forums are the same. Andrew: One of the things that's really important to understand is, not only is there not one book that can tell you everything, It wouldn't even be possible, Right? Like the scope of this tradition is so massive. And when you start talking with someone who's an elder [inaudible 00:28:41] they're a knowledgeable Babalawo, whatever right? Someone who has lived in the tradition for such a long time, the amount of things that come up that are just different situations. I was at a ceremony recently and the person running it was like, "Oh yeah, you know what, your name's Oba tilemi right? Because I know the sound for that one." And so they sang the song that relates to my ocha name, which maybe I had heard it before, nobody had highlighted it, but I never pick that up before because there are so many songs for Shango. There's so many songs for everybody. There's so many stories, there's so many pieces and ceremonies and ideas and advices that it just expands in an unbelievably sophisticated way. Eni: They say the more you know the more you realize you don't know. It truly is a lifelong, lifelong process. But reading books is not a bad place to start given all these limitations that I've talked about. Because I think the positive thing about it is that way at least people who are interested and burning and to know something, feel like they have a little bit of control. Like, Oh, I found a book, I'm so excited and that's great, but it's limited. And eventually, like you mentioned earlier, this is about belonging to a community. And so sooner or later you have to get out of the world of books and meet people in a religion. It must be a personal experience and you must become part of a community because you cannot do this on your own. Eni: And you know that's full of challenges as well because then you have to say, how do I meet these people and are they legitimate? Are they going to cheat me? Is this community a good fit for me? You have to consider things like your physical proximity, because if you're like my ocha community is in Cuba and when I made ocha there, I had to decide, am I going to be able to go back to Cuba on a regular basis? Do I have the money to be able to travel? Does my job allow me to go there whenever I want? Eni: You have to really think about these things because if you don't live near your ocha community, you've got to travel. You know that. You also have to think about the language and the culture, and this just completely confuses me. I hear about people who go to Cuba, they don't speak Spanish, they know nothing about Cuban culture. They make ocha, they're there for a week and they go home and then they say, "I don't have a good relationship with my godparent". I'm like,"well, who is your godparent"? "I don't know. Some guy that lives in Havana." Eni: If you don't speak the language, if you don't know the culture, how can you fit in that community? How can you learn anything? And like you mentioned, you also have to consider a character there of the people. Are they upright people? Are they honest people? Do they have good reputations in the community? I've been talking just about the Lukumi practice, which is my practice. But for a lot of people who are at the very early stages, they have to decide what branch of this religion do they want. A lot of people want traditional Yoruba and they want to know about those practices in Nigeria. I don't know about that. I can't teach you that. I'm Lukumi. Andrew: Well I think that's also a whole other branch, right? But the problem remains the same. You and I would likely have equal ... we'd be next to ground zero by just dropping into Nigeria or wherever. I'm just going to go hang out with some traditional people. It's a roll of the dice. Right. You just never, hopefully it's good, but you never know given that every other day I'm befriended on Instagram by a Nigerian Prince wants to help remove the curses on me if I'll just send them a bunch of money by wire transfer. That stuff is out there, it's everywhere. Eni: And not only that, but our actual ceremonies are different and we have the same basic route. But, I only know how to do ocha ceremonies in Cuba and if I went to Nigeria, I'm sure they do it differently. I can't just walk in there as a functioning priest and expect to be accepted in this community because I don't know anything about them and they don't know anything about me. Before you waste time reading a million books on Lucumi, and then you decide I don't really like Lucumi, I want to be a traditional Yoruba. Make that decision first I think. And focus on what resonates with you. Andrew: I think one of the other things that I would say if you're reading books and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this as well, is the more a book on Orisha tradition talks about what you could do or should do on your own, the more likely I am to think that it's not helpful at all. There are some folks that there where they're like, do this super power Orisha bath and it's like, well, probably not right? These things come from, ideally come from, divination or they come from the ashy of an elder who speaks of where they come from. You know, an Orisha possession.And they don't come from, "huh, I really wish that this was different, maybe I should do this thing", right? Eni: I honestly don't think a reputable priest would write a book like that. I'm sorry, that probably sounds really harsh. But the books that I value ... Andrew: Please, feel free to be harsh, that's fine. Eni: The books that I value are written either from a historical perspective, maybe I'm just a history buff. But that really, really helped me to understand how this religion came to Cuba and how it transformed and who are founding mothers and fathers were and how the religion spread. And having a historical foundation, to me, has just been so valuable. That really helped me. Eni: And I also like books, like the most recent series that Willie is doing where there's a whole book that's just about, Oshun and another book that's all about Obatala and he talks about, these are the songs and these are the prayers, and these are the herbs, and these are the characteristics of Oshun and these are the different roads. That's great. Because it gives you more profound insight into who that Orisha is. But it ... I never ever have found a book helpful that starts telling you, "okay, you're not initiated but you can still throw the shells and learn how to read them and do these spiritual baths and make up all this stuff. And you don't need a priest and you don't need to be initiated". If I see that, I throw that book in the garbage. Andrew: Yeah, that's totally fair. I think one of the things I think is also significant and understanding tradition is one of the things about understanding initiation, especially, well even becoming, just taking on somebody, becoming someone's godparents, you're becoming part of, in a way that lineage, right? That lineage is tied to those people and to those places. My lineage goes back to Mantanzas and when I was there with my godfather, he took me to meet certain people and certain Orishas who are close to the sort of origin of that. And there's this living legacy of those connections from me to my godparents, to their godparents and so on, all the way back to the beginning of this tradition as it stands now in Cuba and then beyond into sort of the, the reaches of history. And that's really significant. That's a really important part of this tradition because without that lineage, in some ways nothing happens, right? Like what happens without that. Eni: That's exactly how I feel. I feel so grateful to be able to go to a place like Palmira and [inaudible 00:37:22] when you go to Mantanzas, same thing, it's like you have a very clear sense of this is where it comes from. I'm connected to this and it gives you such a grounding that it ... I don't even know how to explain it, but it's just really powerful. And I want to connect to something that you said earlier because when you were talking about somebody just contacting you out of the blue and saying, I want you to be my godfather, or please initiate me immediately. Here's the money. I think it's important that people understand that priests have to be selective about who they choose to initiate because it's a big responsibility. Like you said, it's a lifelong commitment. Eni: And if I don't know you and you turn out to be a crazy person, I'm bringing you into my religious family. I'm bringing you into my house and you're going to disrupt everything and make everybody miserable and cause trouble. I don't want that. There really is this kind of trial period and a lot of people who want an immediate access are so put off by that. They'll say, "I went to somebody's house and I asked them to be my godfather and he said, no". Well that's because he doesn't know you and it's premature and it's like you said, why do you need to be talking about making ocha right now? There's nothing to indicate you need that. So this idea that priests should be available 24/7 and a lot of people think "Oh, our religious communities or our centers or wherever we do our ceremonies. They imagine it like some kind of community center or maybe a Christian Church where there's this physical building and there's a little office attached and the priest gets paid a salary and sits there 9:00 to 5:00 and receives people. Eni: And to my knowledge, I have never seen anything like that in our religion. We do our ceremonies in our homes most of the time. And I'm not going to invite a stranger into my home. It's my home. That can really be off putting to people who are new to the religion, but they need to understand that you have to gain someone's trust. They just think they're protecting themselves. Like, "how do I know my Godfather's not a crook and he's cheating me"? Well, that is a concern. You need to know that. But at the same time, the godparent is looking at the potential godchild saying, "is this person a good fit? Do I want to do something with this person"? And people don't like to be judged. They think, here's the money, take it, give it to me. Andrew: No, for sure. I think it's kind of like asking somebody to marry you on the first date. It doesn't make sense. And if the person agrees, well, 99% of the time you should be really suspect about that because that person's got some issues. Go deal with those issues, right? Eni: Exactly. Or it could be like "we have never met, we just know each other from Facebook. Do you want to get married"? Andrew: It's such an interesting modern phenomenon. Right? Eni: Yeah. And another thing that's connected to this that I think is really difficult for newcomers or people who are looking for the way in, is they don't understand that some knowledge in our religion is only meant for priests. It's not open library, here's all the information in the whole world that anyone can access. Traditionally it's been passed by oral communication from generation to generation. You learn it from your elders, you learn it from hands on experience, some information you simply cannot know before you've been through the ceremony yourself. So when somebody comes with a million questions and the potential godparent is saying, "I can't tell you about her. That's not for you to know", Or "that's something only priests do". People get offended by that and think, "Oh, it's secretive they won't share their knowledge". Andrew: I think it's one of those things, and also depending on what we're talking about, I think it's fair for people to ... for the keepers of the tradition to honor the tradition by managing where that information goes. And if they think you're going to be online telling all your friends about this and that and making orisha baths and selling them on the internet when you're not even initiated or whatever, then probably they're going to hold that back as well. There needs to be the evidence of respect over time. Eni: Yeah, for sure. Going back to my little tip sheet though, after the recommendation of get to know people in the religion, sometimes people don't even know how to do that because they say, "where I live there isn't anywhere, It's not visible or I can't find it". So sometimes you have to start with just a wild goose chase in a sense that you might look for some public events that are advertised maybe on Facebook or in your community. Somehow you might look for like a tribute to Oshun at the river that's going to happen on such and such a date and everybody's invited. You make a point to go to that and you can meet some people. Or maybe if you get invited by somebody you know to an ocho birthday party or a drumming, definitely take advantage of those kinds of invitations that come your way. Eni: If you don't know anybody in the religion who could invite you to something, you could even just start with universities in your city or cultural centers, because a lot of times they'll have performances of some kind that's related to Afro-Cuban culture and there might be dance ... Orisha dancing or there might be drumming as performance. There might be lectures, films, scholars who work on that topic. And that's a place that you can meet people. If you just go to the performance or the dance, you might meet somebody who would then invite you to something. So I think that's a pretty safe way to do it if you can find something like that to attend and just keep going. You're going to see the same people showing up and you'll start talking to them, they'll start talking to you. That's a good way to meet people. Eni: Botanicas, a lot of people will say, "Oh, I went to the botanica and I met somebody". I think that can be good. There are some good botanicals, but there are also some shady ones. Andrew: So many shady ones. Eni: Yeah, so many shady ones you have to be really, really careful. You can't just walk into a botanica and assume that the person behind cash register is an orisha, maybe they're not. You can't just go in there and buy a bunch of stuff and ... be very, very careful about the botanicas. It's possible you could meet somebody legitimate there, but it's very likely you're going to meet as a person who wants to scam you. Andrew: The thing is, because I run a store, right? It's not a botanica the sort of sense that it focuses on orisha stuff in that sense. But it's not that dissimilar either. I sell candles and herbs as well as a bunch of other stuff. But I think that that's where also ... do some reading and know what it's really about, and what things are and so on, that you can ask the person some questions and see what happens. Andrew: There was a time where I sold more orisha specific stuff and people would come in and they'd start asking me questions, who were initiates and then they quickly realize, "Oh yeah, okay, this guy's an initiate, he knows what's going on". You could have a certain conversation about stuff and that doesn't need to mean that you need to be an initiate to know about that. But you could be like, "Oh well, where were your initiatives? Who are you an initiatives? What's your lineage? What's your orisha?" or whatever things that can come up and you can gauge things from that person that way and sort of feel them out a little bit. Eni: Absolutely. And by all means, don't walk into a botanica with a wad of money in your hand and say, "I want to get initiated". That's not going to work out well. Or they'll say, "my uncle can initiate you, step in the back room". Go ahead. Sadly that has happened so you have to be careful. Eni: I think social media is similar in a sense that you can be on these religious forums and you can meet some great people on social media. I met you on social media. There are definitely some good connections to be made on social media, but you have to be so careful and don't just put out there, "Hey, I'm looking for a godparent who wants to initiate me". There are also charlatans on social media. You don't know who's who's going to grab you. So for me, the most reliable starting point, Sooner or later you've got to get to a point or you can go get a reading, a consulta. And by that I mean by an orisha or by a babalawo who will use the traditional divination tools of orisha to tell you what's going on with you. I have nothing against taro cards and psychic readings and all these other things. But that's not how you find out what's going on with oricha. Andrew: Exactly. I've created and made an orisha tarot deck that is not for marketing orisha things. It is for exploring and understanding the philosophies and the ideas. Exploring how some of these worldviews overlap in the worldviews of tarot. But if you go and somebody says, Oh yeah, "[inaudible 00:47:51], your Orisha with my taro deck". You should get up and leave maybe even ask for your money back, because it's not what it's for. It doesn't work that way. Eni: I think that finding a good diviner is so crucial. That's to me, a turning point because if you can find a good, reliable, honest diviner, that person is going to be able to guide you. Even if that person doesn't turn out to be your godparent, that person is going to be able to hook you up with the right people if they're a member in good standing and in their Orisha community. I think that having these kind of warning signs to look out for, that's very important. You need to go understanding that if you sit down with a diviner, you've never been there before, the first thing he says is, "Oh my God, something really horrible, your children are all going to die unless you make ocho right now". If somebody starts pressuring you like that and trying to manipulate you and make you be really afraid and you have to be initiated right now, that's a warning sign to me. Andrew: One of the things I think that people ... in life there's not always solutions. But one of the things that I understand now at this point in my journey is I've been through some very hard stuff. Last year my business burned to the ground. It's not easy, life isn't always easy. But when I got a reading about that with my elder, it was so comforting. Even though there's a ton of hard stuff still in front of me, and there are ways of which we can approach difficulties and there are ways in which we can make a bowl, do little ceremonies and offerings or whatever, to make our situation better for almost every situation. And it's one of the things that I think is fascinating and different is that there's not ... sometimes there's a miraculous transformation. Andrew: Sometimes there's something you do and it just turns everything around. But there's always something to do, even in difficult times. Approaching it with fear or putting fear into the other person's heart, it's one of the worst things that I think people could do. Divination should come with solutions as well. Advice to mitigate it. And even if it comes we have this sort of orientation where it comes Okinawa, where it comes ... what you brought from heaven. Meaning you can't change it. But we can use it. You can find ways to mitigate your suffering. You can find ways to fortify your strength. There are solutions. If people are working to make you afraid, it makes me so mad when that happens. So, don't fall for it. Eni: And the solution doesn't have to cost $2,000 all the time. There are lots of solutions that are much less expensive. We always just start out with fresh water, omi tutu and coconuts and fruit and things like that. And a lot of times a simple abo an [inaudible 00:51:13], prepare some rice pudding or [inaudible 00:51:15] or whatever it doesn't have to be $2,000. Eni: I think that if people get to the point where they can find a good divine and rely on that information and understand the process of divination and what it's for, that is definitely going to put them on the path they need to be on. Because as we said at the very beginning, not everybody needs to be initiated. If your life is fine and you don't need to get X, Y, or Z, you don't need it, you're fine the way you are. And you don't need to go into the religion thinking, "I'm going to acquire ... I want to have 30 ori shots and I want to have the fanciest soperas and beautiful decorations. That's great, but that doesn't make you a more devoted orisha worshiper than the poor, simple Cuban who's just got his Orishas in a little clay pot. Andrew: I remember talking to this person and they gave all their money to buying things for their Orishas. And they're like, "well, the orisha is going to give it back to me twice as much". But then they were always broke because they were always spending all the money they got on ... You know and at a certain point you have to be mindful of the realities of these dynamics and even if the Orishas did reciprocate one of their offerings with double the amount of investment or they were so happy they blessed them, that's great. But then when you take that blessing and you turn it ... and you don't put it to use in the way it's intended. That's not helpful either. Eni: It's not all about material wealth either, because we have to remember that this religion came from, for the most part, very poor people. People in Cuba, the old people, a lot of times they didn't have anything. If they could go out and buy one apple to give to Chango on their Orisha birthday, that represented a big sacrifice. That's all they could do. They weren't going to go get a loan to buy something better, but they spent their money buying that apple for Chango and they gave it with love and they spent the whole day sitting there with Chango and praying and singing and receiving friends and godchildren. Those people are incredibly blessed even though materially they're poor, they have a really rich spiritual life. And for the most part they have long life, good health and they would say that their life is going well. Even though from our perspective it's like, "Oh my gosh, you don't have anything, you're so poor". They have what they need. Andrew: I think that it's funny because people have often a very strong reaction to the financial part of the religion, that we have to pay money for these things to happen. And I get it, it's not always easy, it can be a lot of money, especially in North America. I mean really anywhere, any Cubans, a lot of money for people who are in Cuba. Also, it's not just people ... I almost want to say their, despite the way in which money plays such a significant role in the tradition, so many of them are less capitalists than a lot of people are They're less caught up in that consumerism. And so they are way more content with doing things and being a part of things and showing up. Eni: There are lots of different ways to make sacrifice. You can sacrifice your time, you can give your attention, your love. There are many, many ways to show devotion. It doesn't have to all be about money. Andrew: Exactly. Do you have anything else on your list there? Eni: I have a little summary. Andrew: Okay let's hear it. Eni: We've talked for a long time here, it's been really interesting. But first of all, I guess I want to stress that there's only so much that you can do alone. This is not a religion that you can practice all by yourself. There's no such thing, in my opinion, as self initiation. I really don't like it when people just appropriate and steal little parts of our religion and say, "well I don't like that other part. I'm not going to do that, but I like this little part, I'm going to do this". No, you're either in it or you're not in it. And if you're in it, it means you follow the tradition and the rules of your house. You have to show respect that way in my opinion. Andrew: I want to add to that point, I live in Toronto. There are a few other people in the area, but pretty much everybody here travels to do anything of any consequence. There are no Ochas happening in Toronto, there are no whatever. What it means to, even for me, who has dedicated a lot of time to study and to try to learn the tradition and so on. There's so much that you can only learn by watching somebody do it. And whether that's how you peel the stem out of a leaf or whether that's how you put things together in a certain way. There's all this knowledge that it's just deeply practical that nobody would ever even think to explain to you because you would just see it by being in the room. But when you're not in the room and you're reading about these things, you can learn a bunch of stuff, but still doesn't mean that you know how to do anything, which is a really, I think, important distinction to understand. Eni: Oh, absolutely. That was one of my points as well, that if you're geographically isolated from a large Orisha community, you are definitely going to have to either travel a lot or move. I feel so bad for people who say "I live somewhere in the middle of Nebraska and I want to be initiated". Well unless they moved, I don't think that's going to happen unless they can travel a lot. You have to be practical. Some people live in these isolated communities where there is no Orisha community and if they can't travel and can't go anywhere and can never participate in anything, there's definitely a limit to how far they can go or what they can do. Y Eni: You do have to be proactive like we talked about, you have to get out there and look for opportunities and connections, but at the same time you have to be really careful that you don't fall into the wrong hands and you have to be patient as things happen in their own way. Sooner or later at some point you're going to need a mentor. And usually that turns out to be a godparent who can lead you along. You can only go so far on your own. Eni: My final point, and the one that is the most important that I say over and over again, is you just have to have faith that if it's meant to happen, it will happen in the way it's meant to happen and you can't control the process. Andrew: Absolutely. I think that is a great summary and maybe that's a great place to wrap it up. For people who want to follow along more with what you're doing, how do they connect? Remind us of your websites and how do they connect with your new Facebook project as well? Eni: My website is www dot about Santeria, all one word and no capital letters aboutsanteria.com. www dot about Santeria dot com. If people go to that website, there's a little button, click here to contact me, and you can write to me and I'll write back. Or you can go on Facebook and we have the About Santeria page where people can find connections on Facebook to what's on a website. And there's also the About Santeria community forum and that's open to aleyos, non initiates as well as priests and the Lucumi. I'm keeping a focus on Lucumi because I'm not qualified to talk about traditional Yoruba and I want the focus to be on Lucumi. Andrew: Perfect. All right, well thank you so much, Eni for making time to be here. We've been talking about it for a while and I'm really glad that we finally got our time zones coordinated and made everything happen. Eni: Thank you for the invitation. I really enjoyed the conversation. Andrew: Oh, it's my pleasure.
Radio Omo Obatala Internacional. Transmite en vivo para el mundo via de Internet, todos los viernes en punto de las 23:00 horas, tiempo de la Ciudad de Mexico. Entra y conoce que no todo lo que dicen sobre la santeria es ocultismo... existe un mundo mas alla, cada viernes es una nueva oportunidad de conocer temas y personas que tienen un punto de vista que escuchar. ¡Bienvenidos!
In light of last week's episode, I expand upon the Orishas, mainly the 7 African Powers and the story of Obatala and Oya. I used many sources, including oral tradition, the book "Jambalaya" by Luisah Teish, God's Lwas, Mysteries and Orishas by Oxala Aye and the website Brixology.com. Become a supporter by clicking the link at anchor.fm/iamreveye or drop a tip at paypal.me/iamreveye. Email me at awake@iamreveye.com. Song Credits- Intro Unrest-Elphnt//Outro Lagos-Quincas Moreira. Go to @iamreveye on IG to view related video/pictures. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/iamreveye/support
Hola familia, mi nombre es Oshun Ala Erinle, si es primera vez que visitas mi canal te doy la bienvenida. El día de hoy he querido traerle un video para ayudarlos para que aprendan a hacer ebbo, Esta palabra en nuestra religión significa hacerse una limpia, este tipo de limpia nos va a servir para apartar enfermedades y brujerías. Les comento que utilizaremos El huevo es una poderosa herramienta de absorción de todo tipo de energías, simboliza fecundidad, para nosotros en la religión yoruba, le pertenecen a todos los Orishas, pero especialmente a Obatalá, esto no nace en algún signo especifico, ya que en nuestra religión la mayoría de las cosas han sido transmitidas verbalmente y no hay mucho registro escrito, a consecuencia como fueron sometidos y traídos a la fuerza los africanos al continente americano. Materiales 8 huevos Manteca de cacao 2 velas blancas Algodón Plato blanco Lo primero que haremos será cubrir el plato con algodón, luego acomodar los huevos, que deberemos refrescarlos bajo la llave del agua y secarlos con una servilleta de papel o tela, luego le vamos desbaratar la cascarilla con nuestras manos encima de los huevos y por último vamos a ponerle manteca de cacao esta la debemos de picar con nuestra boca no debemos usar ningún tipo de objeto filoso de metal luego de tener montada la obra para el ebbo para los aleyos (iniciados sin consagración) solo montan la obra y hacen su petición y darán la siguiente oración que les dejaré en pantalla. Para los que tienen santo consagrado deberán presentarlo frente a Obatalá sonarle su agogo(campana) y hacerle su respectiva moyugba. Luego que vamos hacer tomaremos el primer huevo y no los vamos a pasar por los ojos de adentro hacia afuera con cuidado de no romperlo, este será el lugar de comienzo de la limpia, ya que por aquí es donde entra la la mayor maldad a los humanos y luego no los pasaremos por el resto del cuerpo, al día siguiente tomaremos el segundo huevo y haremos así hasta el 8vo día. Para los aleyos recogemos el octavo día los huevos los ponemos en una bolsa de papel amarillo y lo llevamos bajo un árbol de ceiba o en caso de que no tenga un árbol de ceiba cerca lo pone a la basura. Para los que tienen consagración se le dará coco al orisha para saber dónde se lleva. Oración para limpiar con el huevo. En nombre de dios padre todopoderoso, con el poder de las comisiones de limpia, y la bendición y protección de Obatalá al cual invoco para que limpie mi cuerpo y elimine cualquier clase de daño que exista en mi cuerpo mi padre Obatalá tu que riges nuestros cuerpos y nuestras cabezas tráenos paz y calma a nuestras vidas tu que impones justicia y misericordia, (hacer la petición) y así ante usted yo pueda encontrar apoyo levantarme de donde caí. Le pido su bendición y que su manto blanco me cubra. Me despido de ustedes, haciendo esta pequeña solicitud de que se suscriban a mi canal y si les gusto el video lo compartan para así ayudar a otras personas que lo necesiten, Soy Oshun Ala Erinle y te deseo bendiciones. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/oshun-ala-erinle/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/oshun-ala-erinle/support
Descubre quien es obatla y sus tabues.
descubre quien es Obatala U Orisanla.
Descubre quien es obatla y sus tabues.
Descubre quien es obatla y sus tabues.
Chief Oluwo Obafemi Fayemi Epega is a world-renowned Babalawo and the founder of O.I.D.S.I. (Obafemi Institute for the Divine & Universal Study of Ifa). He was initiated as a priest of Obatala in January 2004, and received his Tefa in February 2005 from the late Oluwo Dr. Afolabi Epega at the Epega Compound in Akure, Ondo State, Nigeria. He strongly believes that the restoration and preservation of African divine sciences and traditions can restore psychological balance and personal empowerment to all people. In addition to overseeing more than 400 ceremonies and rituals, Baba Femi has either directly facilitated, or served as the principal liaison for the initiations of more than 50 Ifa and Olorisha priests. With the blessings of Olodumare, his ancestors, and Ifa, this life has allowed him to fully embrace and experience that which his heart has chosen. He is proud to be an African American man, native Houstonian, descendant of slaves, priest of Ifa, teacher, author, mentor, son, a friend to many, a loving husband, and most importantly, an honorable father. The Obafemi Institute for the Divine & Universal Study of Ifa (OIDSI) is committed to promoting sustainable health and well-being among all practitioners. The programs are designed to elevate and motivate on an individual, family and community basis. The mission is to improve the quality of life and provide a holistic approach on a physical, mental and spiritual level through programs, education and community unity. obafemi.org foshoenergywork.com/sacredorgasmicliving opening music: vanark.bandcamp.com/track/2-late-night-lights arkteknologies.wordpress.com/
Radio Omo Obatala Internacional. Transmite en vivo para el mundo via de Internet, todos los viernes en punto de las 23:00 horas, tiempo de la Ciudad de Mexico. Entra y conoce que no todo lo que dicen sobre la santeria es ocultismo... existe un mundo mas alla, cada viernes es una nueva oportunidad de conocer temas y personas que tienen un punto de vista que escuchar. ¡Bienvenidos!
The Hermit's Lamp Podcast - A place for witches, hermits, mystics, healers, and seekers
In this episode T. Susan Chang plays host to interview me about my new deck from Llewellyn – The Orisha Tarot. We talk about my 18 year journey with the Lukumi tradition that brought me to this point. This episode is a deep dive into the how and why of this deck an dthe role the spirits have played in its creation too. You can see the deck and get it from my website here, Amazon, or at your local bookshop. Think about how much you've enjoyed the podcast and how many episodes you listened to, and consider if it is time to support the Patreon You can do so here. And you should go see all the good stuff Susan is up to here. If you want more of this in your life you can subscribe by RSS , iTunes, Stitcher, or email. Thanks for joining the conversation. Please share the podcast to help us grow and change the world. Andrew You can book time with me through my site here. Transcription SUSIE: Hello, everybody! You're hearing a different voice as the host of this week's Hermit's Lamp podcast. I'm Susie Chang, friend of Andrew, and Andrew has kindly invited me to come on the show in order to interview him about his new deck, the Orisha Tarot, since he obviously could not interview himself! [laughs] Normally, at the beginning of an interview, what I would do is introduce the guest, but since the guest is the host, I guess I'll just do a very cursory introduction of what I know about my friend, Andrew. As you know, he is the proprietor of The Hermit's Lamp, the store, which is a touchstone for all of us in the tarot community, and he is the voice behind The Hermit's Lamp podcast. He is an artist in his own right and a creator of beautiful works, decks, and he is also a priest in the Lucumí tradition, and we'll be talking about that some more. But the reason that we're here today is to talk about the Orisha Tarot, which is coming out from Llewellyn in September … What day is it? ANDREW: Basically, today, according to Amazon. SUSIE: For real! Fantastic! Yeah, this is very exciting. So, I understand decks are already shipping out, and I was also particularly interesting -- interested -- in doing this podcast because we're both Llewellyn authors. I've got a book coming out from Llewellyn on tarot correspondences just next month. So, shout out to Llewellyn for supporting the work of tarot lovers everywhere. ANDREW: Absolutely. SUSIE: Yeah! So the Orisha Tarot is officially out. Congratulations! ANDREW: Thank you! SUSIE: It's been many years in the making, hasn't it? ANDREW: Yeah, I mean it's … It's always one of those things. Where do you count that from? You know? SUSIE: [laughs] ANDREW: I signed my contract for it about two years ago, maybe a little bit less than that. So that's probably as good a time as any. But even at that point I had already made a dozen cards and had spent five or six years prior to that thinking about it and trying to figure out what I wanted to do and how I wanted to do it. So. You know? SUSIE: Right. And actually, I'd like to back up even further, to the beginning of your story in this tradition. And to find out a little bit. Because it's been about ten years, I think you said? Something like that? ANDREW: Ten years as a priest. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: As of August. It was 2000 when I started getting involved in this tradition. So it's been about 18 years that I've been involved. SUSIE: Wow. So that's … Really, it's been a long journey for you. And I was listening to your wonderful interview with our friends at the Tarot Visions podcast, and I think you mentioned that you came into it through kind of a circle of friends who were exploring different esoteric traditions, and I kind of wanted to know a little bit more about what drew you. You mentioned that you were, you know, a friend had brought in his own explorations of Lucumí, and I wanted to, first of all, sort of talk a tiny bit about the context of Lucumí, since not everyone will be familiar with it, and also, a little bit more about your attraction to it. Now, as I understand it, Lucumí is a Cuban offshoot of the greater Yoruba African traditional religion, yeah? ANDREW: So, the story you get will depend a lot on who you talk to. Like many things. Right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: You know, so, at the time of the Atlantic slave trade, Yoruban wasn't really cohesive at all. That whole area was a bunch of city states and so on, right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: So, this idea that there was sort of one cohesive African traditional religion, or ATR, which these things spread from, isn't really historically accurate. You know? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: If you came from, you know, the city of Ife, then, you know, your tradition slants in one direction, certain deities are, you know, held above others; if you come from Oyo, then, you know, that's going to have a different set of traditions and sort of a different kind of more primary veneration and tilting towards certain deities over others. If you're down sort of in the coastal parts of kind of western Africa, towards the south end of that sort of prominence, the way in which some of the Orisha are going to manifest, especially the water Orisha, are different than if you're sort of further north, or inland, or in other places. You know, and so … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: It's important to understand that these sort of … All of these Orisha traditions and their diasporic manifestations, you know, as they found themselves in different countries, throughout the Caribbean and North and South America, they all varied depending on which groups of people were enslaved and brought over, which traditions survived, what happened in relationship to the indigenous culture that was present, you know, in Cuba indigenous culture was sort of pretty much wiped out, so there wasn't much inclusion of that into the traditions, whereas in other parts, you know, especially in South America, you know, some of those cultures continue to sort of live alongside and there's sort of more sharing of ideas. SUSIE: Yeah, it seems like in many of the diasporic manifestations, you see fates that have been heavily syncretized with whatever was going on locally. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think that, you know, the question of syncretization is always an interesting one, you know? SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: The story that some people like to say is that they were syncretized in order to conceal them and to prevent … SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And to protect them and to allow them to practice covertly, you know … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And I'm sure that that's true in some ways. But also, you know, there's a lot of … In nonwestern approaches to magic and to spirituality, there's often a real sense of "hey, what's that guy good for? What's that spirit …?" SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: "What's that one going to do for me?" Whereas this sort of very practical notion of, you know, you come across somebody and you're like, "well, I read about this guy, what's that saint good for?" SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And there's the syncretization that happens, for sure, but there's also the notion of like, having more spiritual people in your corner is not a bad idea at all. Right? SUSIE: Exactly, exactly. ANDREW: And so, so I think the history is interesting to try and unravel, but I think that we'll never really fully understand exactly what was going on with everybody involved. SUSIE: Exactly. And I think that, you know, people of faith kind of make faith work however they can, right? You know, it's sort of like you'll always have schools of thoughts that try to keep, you know, try to distinguish and separate and go towards a purist mentality in terms of practicing faith, and then there are others who'll say, well, we work with what we've got, you know? ANDREW: Exactly. SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: So, and so, to kind of answer your kind of like, about my lineage … My lineage, as far back as we know it, originates with this woman Monserrate, you know, she's the farthest back that we can trace that, and my lineage originates in Cuba and through those sort of Cuban traditions. So. Variations of the diasporic traditions, for sure. SUSIE: Right, right. So we're talking about … We're specifically talking about a tradition that came to Cuba through the slave trade. ANDREW: Exactly, yeah. SUSIE: And do … You actually have some reference to that in, I think, your Ten of Swords card. ANDREW: Absolutely. SUSIE: Which seems really appropriate, yeah. So, I wanted to know a little bit more about your personal journey, in terms of whether you yourself grew up in any kind of faith community, or whether you were … you know, did you have to rebel against one? did you long to belong to a faith community? What was that like for you and what was discovering this community like for you? ANDREW: So, I think that one of the best things that my parents did was not raise me with any traditions at all. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: My parents weren't particularly religious, you know ... SUSIE: So what did you rebel against? [laughs] ANDREW: I didn't rebel against any- I mean I rebelled against everything. But we'll get to that. But what that meant was, you know, when I said to my mom, I want to go to the psychic fair and find some books on magic, when I was 12, my mom was like, okay. You know, when I like, picked out Alistair Crowley, she was like, sure, go ahead. SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: So, that meant that I like had a lot of space to really get involved and think about other things, you know? SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: You know, other than sort of when my parents split up and we started going to Anglican church, mostly I think because my mom wanted some community … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: I didn't really have a lot of connection or experience with any kind of organized religion. But what happened was, when I was 14, I almost died in a car accident. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And after that I wanted to understand everything. And so, I didn't rebel against anything as such, but what I really wanted to know was, like, what does this all mean? Right? Like all of it. You know. At that point I'd already been reading tarot for a year … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: I'd already been studying Crowley for a couple of years. It was already really invested in sort of a magical world view. And at that point then I just started reading everything I could get my hands on, right? So I'm like in grade 9 and 10, and reading Nietzsche and … SUSIE: Sure. ANDREW: Picking out, you know, people who can talk about these things. The youth group at the church was run by an ex-Jesuit, and so I would like corner him and be like "hey, tell me about this, tell me about that, tell me about this," and for the most part, people would indulge me and have conversations with me about it, you know? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. Was there another organized religion that you were drawn to? Before Lucumí? ANDREW: No. I mean, Crowley's work. You know? SUSIE: Yes. ANDREW: For me it was basically all about Crowley's work. SUSIE: And you were in the OTO? ANDREW: Yeah. When I was in my ... It wasn't until much later though. It wasn't until I was, you know, well into my 20s that I actually even considered … I was like, oh, maybe the OTO exists here in Toronto. Maybe I could find people. Mostly I just practiced independently and pursued and tried to talk to people. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: Yeah. And then basically I left the OTO and the Armed Solace, which was another initiatory group, and moved into practicing Lucumí, you know? That was my journey. SUSIE: Yeah, yeah. And it's been, as you said, like an 18-year journey at this point. And, so that's something I wanted to sort of ask you about, in terms of doing the artwork, telling the stories, introducing the wider world to this tradition. You know, often when we are talking about faiths we didn't grow up in, you know, there's this question of whether it's your story to tell, or whether, you know, at what point do you become a representative? And so that's a question I have for you, at what point did you feel that you were invested enough or, you know, that you had a strong enough sense of belonging to be able to bring this to other people? ANDREW: Sure. So, there's a whole bunch of pieces to that answer. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. It's a complex one. [laughing] ANDREW: Yeah! We'll start with this. When you … When you become a priest, right? You become initiated into a lineage, right? So, you know, and when we talk about ancestors, the word we use most of the time is Egun. Right? We mean Egun to mean, ancestors by blood, and ancestors by initiation, right? SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And so, you know, my Egun are those priests of the Orishas, going back to Montserrate and beyond, you know, and they're lost to history beyond that. And so, part of the conversation for me is, this is my lineage, this is my, these are my ancestors at this point, right? And this is something that we take pretty seriously within the tradition, right? Initiation and lineage are really significant. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And so that's part of the thing. Part of it is, although my parents did not practice this tradition, I am initiated into this lineage in a traditional way. SUSIE: So, so there's a difference here between blood lineage and spiritual lineage. ANDREW: But the word does not differentiate. We don't differentiate, right? So, if you … We could … You could get a reading, and, your traditional reading, and your reading could come in a good way or a bad way, depending on what's going on with you, from the Egun, right? SUSIE: Right, right. ANDREW: And when we're divining, if it's possible, we want to mark who that is, and we would ask, ancestors from the lineage, and ancestors from the blood line, and depending on what the reading came out as, it would guide us. And we could narrow it down, and be like, "Oh, yeah, the ancestors are upset with you, and in this case it's someone from your blood family, or in some other case it's somebody from your initiatory lineage," but we don't differentiate, the word means the same, right? SUSIE: Yes, I seem to remember reading something this past week about the idea that your, your, they're sort of one set, one bloodline sort of over one shoulder and spiritual guidance over the other, but they sort of combine and you need both. And I guess, you know, speaking about the outlook and cosmology of the faith, would it fair to say that, you come into this religion, but the religion itself proceeds from the assumption that everybody, no matter where you come from, no matter who your parents, or grandparents etc. were, has a relationship, or a potential relationship they haven't yet realized, with the Orisha? ANDREW: I don't think that that's actually true. SUSIE: Okay. So that's what I'm trying to get to the bottom of here. ANDREW: Okay. Before we come to Earth, we choose our destiny. We choose our Ori, right? Ori is sort of, not easily translated into one thing, but if you think of it as sort of your guardian angel, your destiny, and your higher self, all as one entity, that's probably a reasonable set of points to make sense of it, for people who have those ideas already. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And when you choose your destiny, before you come to Earth, it's sealed, right? SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And so, we don't know what all it entails before we come, but if it's part of your destiny to get initiated into the Orisha tradition then opportunities will present themselves for that. It's not to say that you couldn't force them otherwise, but those wouldn't be in alignment with your destiny. And really, when we're talking about sort of initiation, and sort of connection, and those kinds of things, they really all ought to be dictated by either divination, or dictated by Orisha in possession of people, right? SUSIE: Yes. ANDREW: It's not really, you know. There are many people who will come, people will come and Orishas are like, "yeah, okay, we'll help you," right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: Or the people will come, and they'll be like, "no, you should go do something else," right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: Either direction, go over that way, go look at these people, you know, like go look at these other traditions. It's definitely not for … It's not meant for everybody, per se, and it's not closed in any, you know, in any particular way, although certain houses and certain, you know, lineages, might be more closed to outsiders than others, based on a whole bunch of different factors, but … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: It's much more so that, you know, if it's part of your destiny the opportunity will arise, if it's not, then, you know, you might run into it, but they might say, no, you're good, go to the other side. SUSIE: Right. Well, this is interesting to me because I've noticed that there seem to be a lot of people who are clearly didn't grow up within the culture who have become drawn to this religion or some form of it, some form of the faith, and, you know, taken it on. And, it seems as though there is, you know, a certain openness to those who commit themselves, whether or not they grew up or had family or, you know, understood the culture. Right? ANDREW: Yeah, I mean I think that, I think that there are opportunities definitely for people to engage and connect with these traditions. And there are definitely practitioners around who are, you know, open to people who didn't grow up in these traditions and so on, for sure, right. SUSIE: Right, right. ANDREW: That's definitely a thing, and you know, I mean that, I think one of the things I see that's going on is that, certain people seem like they're looking for tradition, right? They're looking for … They're kind of doing something that doesn't have a long living history, and they're kind of looking backwards for, or looking around for those things that do, you know? SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: I think that's part of why the Tarot de Marseilles is sort of resurfacing. SUSIE: Right, right. ANDREW: You know, it's, I think that it's why the Orisha traditions are shifting and coming forward more. You know? SUSIE: Right. That's one of the things that … I guess that's why I was asking you so much about your own background in terms of, you know, working independently versus belonging, right? Because I think that that's something that a lot of us struggle with, especially those of us who grew up, you know, in an era where religious community isn't something that one takes for granted. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. SUSIE: Yeah. So anyway, I think that we should probably turn a little bit to the work itself. ANDREW: Well, let me finish answering … Cause we started with this question of me and sort of, you know, doing this deck, right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: You know, sort of … And we kind of started talking about the ancestral piece and drifted away, and there are a couple of other things that I want to sort of … SUSIE: Okay, good. ANDREW: So I mean, one of the things, like I did a bunch of things around creating and starting this process, and getting permission before I started this process, and certainly one of them was sitting with my elders and talking about what I wanted to do, and, you know, getting advice from them. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And certainly part of it was asking the Orishas themselves, asking Elegua for, you know, his blessing to proceed with this project. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And also, you know, sort of sitting down with people and sort of showing my art with, you know, with different people and people of color and so on to kind of consult with my choices around representations and so on, so. SUSIE: Absolutely, absolutely. ANDREW: I really wanted to, you know, you can never please anybody, and I'm sure there'll be some people who'll be upset by the deck, and well, you know, that's life. Right? But … SUSIE: Right. But it sounds as though you have a lot of support. At least within the community you have access to for the work that you undertook. ANDREW: Exactly. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Cool. So I wanted to talk a little bit about making a tarot deck, approaching a tarot deck, coming out of the various traditions you come out of. So I know that you started out with Crowley and the Thoth deck -- or, I know you pronounce it "Toth," [laughing] and also that your primary commitment as a reader for quite a while has been the Marseilles deck. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. SUSIE: So, how … Why did it seem like a natural choice to you to translate or to represent what you know from Orisha as a tarot deck? You know, I think a lot of people would say, well, you know, since there isn't an obvious 78 card structure, you know, number of deities, all the sort of correspondences that tend to underlie at least the Golden Dawn-derived decks, or the general tradition of tarot reaching back to the 15th century, you know, why, why do a tarot deck and not something more free form like an oracle deck? ANDREW: Well, because, one of the reasons why I made this deck was because I wanted to create a bridge between the people who have traditional experience with the Orishas, and people who have experience with the traditional tarot structure. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And I wanted to use that … those two pieces as a way of creating a bridge so that people could sort of have more understanding of each other. And of what's going on, right? SUSIE: Yeah, yeah. ANDREW: And so, I really, you know, I mean, I've got nothing against oracle decks, I mean I released one earlier in the year. But, in trying to think about something as large and expansive as the Orisha traditions, it really … Having a clear structure, like the tarot structure, allowed me to frame and set the conversation in a way that allowed me to finish it [laughing] cause otherwise … SUSIE: [laughing] Right, it's ... otherwise, how do you know when it's done? [laughing] ANDREW: Yeah, right? I mean, we divine with, you know, upwards of 256 different signs. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: Each of those signs is as complicated or as a trump card, or as sophisticated as a trump card … SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: and then there's, you know, depending on who you ask, you know, a bunch of primary Orishas and maybe, you know, like even hundreds if you start getting into different paths and roads, it can expand infinitely in every direction, right? So. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. I'm curious in whether there's much crossover between the two communities, that you've noticed. I mean tarot, and Orisha. ANDREW: Sure, lots of people. I know lots of people who are initiated. You know, I mean, that sort of … syncretic piece, kind of "what can I do with this?", you know, that continues to be a problem with a lot of Orisha practitioners' lives, right? SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: It's more purely, just the Lucumí Orisha stuff. Many people practice some combination of, you know, Paulo Moyumbe, and espiritismo, and card reading, and, you know, other things, depending on who they are and what they feel is important and what they have access to. So there's not like … There's not a lot of hard rules … SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: About the Orisha tradition. Certainly not the tradition I practice. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: I mean, definitely don't mix them in one ceremony. SUSIE: But it's okay if you practice them separately. ANDREW: If you go to church on Sunday, and then you tend your ancestral Boveda, and then you have some Orisha, and you go between them, depending on what you feel and need, it depends on where you go, it's a really common experience for a lot of people. So. SUSIE: Yeah, yeah, I'm glad you addressed that, cause that's something I was really curious about. You know, you don't dilute your practice by sort of mixing a bit of everything. On the other hand, you're one person, and, you know, if you're drawn to different practices, then perhaps you're drawn to different practices for different needs. ANDREW: Sure. And if the Orisha don't want you doing that, they'll tell you! For sure. SUSIE: [laughing] Right. ANDREW: They'll be like, "stop it!" SUSIE: That's not cool. Yeah. ANDREW: Yeah. SUSIE: So, a little bit about what people can expect when they're approaching the cards. Now, it's not like there's a particular Orisha per card. There's Orisha in some representations of some cards, some cards have concepts from Lucumí, some cards have one of the Odu on them, so, sort of like, how did you approach how you wanted to impart all of this information structurally into the deck? ANDREW: Mm-hmm. So, I really, I wanted to try and avoid what I had seen done in other decks in the past. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: Not because it's wrong per se, but because it doesn't give the conversation enough meat. Right? You know a lot of decks would say, well, Shango is the king, and therefore, he's the emperor, and so when I draw the Emperor I'm going to draw Shango. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And that's fair, you know, I mean Shango is the emperor, he's the king of the Orishas. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: But, but there's a lot more to it than that. What does that mean? In what way does kingship or power in that way show up in a variety of different contexts, and what are the different conversations that we could have, right? SUSIE: Exactly. ANDREW: And so, when I was sort of working with the trump cards, I wanted to embody the ideas that I see being behind, you know, behind the cards themselves: spiritual authority, earthly authority, fortune and chance, you know, like different things. I wanted to sort of embody those bigger ideas and kind of avoid kind of just a straight, this symbol = this symbol here … SUSIE: Yeah, I call that the matchy match. [laughing] ANDREW: Right? Exactly. SUSIE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. ANDREW: When I was looking at the number cards, which for me often represent sort of more the what and the how of life, right? I wanted to kind of focus more on stories, and those things that tend to be more about particular patakis, or stories or ideas from the lives of the Orishas and the lives of their practitioners and where that kind of overlaps and integrates with those numbered cards. And then when I got to the court cards, I wanted to, I wanted to really kind of explore the way the court cards can be sort of seen to line up with roles people might play in the community. Right? SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: So, when we're looking at those, we see … One of them, the Aleyo, the new person who's just coming to this tradition, who's ready to learn, and they're making an offering to, you know, the butcher, who is a very skilled and important part of the ceremonies in the community, to the elders who run the ceremonies, and the singers and the drummers and the artists and all of those things, so I kind of went through and sifted those ideas into where I felt they aligned with the court cards best. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: So, the court cards then become really positions or roles one might find oneselves in, in religion, and over time, with the traditional idea of the court cards, over time we might [00:29:27]. Over time we might be, you know, we might play this role in this community and that role in another community. And so on. So. SUSIE: Right, right. And I think hat underscores what I think sometimes we forget about court cards, which is that we can be any of them, and we are any and all of them at different times. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. SUSIE: So, about that … A word you brought up just before, which I think is pretty important for us to discuss, the word Pataki, the story. So can you tell us a little bit about how that is contextualized within the faith and also, we should mention, that that is the name of the book that goes with the deck, Patakis of the Orisha Tarot. Yeah. ANDREW: So, patakis are the stories of the Orishas and their practitioners that are meant to be instructive, right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: The word parable, you know, is a way to maybe give a different word for it in English. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And, you know, especially when we're divining, right, we'll often give a proverb, and we'll often, you know, tell a story about the Orishas. And, this is part of this oral tradition of it, that we are expressing these ideas in ways that allow us to tell the person things, in ways that are easier to hold onto, easier to integrate, that give us some meat, rather than just saying, "hey, don't do this thing," which we might also say … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: We might also tell the story of when one of the Orishas did that thing and what happened to them. SUSIE: Yes. ANDREW: "Oh yeah yeah, okay I see that. I shouldn't do that thing, cause this is gonna happen," right? There'll be a problem. SUSIE: There's something about these stories that's so human and relatable, right? You know? I mean is it not the case that the Orisha themselves were at one time human or before they became more than human? ANDREW: Well, that's a … That's a contested … Somewhat contested point of view. Many Orisha are what's known as urumole. They came from heaven. Right? They originated purely from spirit. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: There are Orishas who are considered deified ancestors, Shango being one of them, you know, Oduduwa being another one. You know, there are these spirits, these people who led great lives and led their communities and so on, and became, you know, deified after their death. The question that comes up in those conversations, then, also is were those lives that Orisha descending and living on Earth for a period of time? SUSIE: Yes, right. Yeah. ANDREW: So, I mean, I think that it … I think that there's no clear answers to that. But in general, the majority of the Orishas did not start as human, but originated as part of the unfolding of creation, and then came to sort of live these lives and, you know, have these stories and experiences that we now understand. And also, when we're talking about some of these stories, I think that we also need to understand that some of them, and there's no easy historical way to say which ones are not, but a good chunk of them were probably stories about priests of those spirits. SUSIE: I see. ANDREW: Made these mistakes in their lives. It's like, "Oh yeah, you're Bill, the priest of Obatala who lived down the road …" SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: "Remember when you did this?" "Yeah, I remember," right? SUSIE: [laughing] Right, right. ANDREW: And those stories become, you know, part of the myth, right? Part of the lexicon of these traditions. SUSIE: Yes. I guess what makes me wonder, you know, what their relationship with mortality and humanity is, is because these stories, the emotions and the sort of currents that they represent are things that anyone can relate to. You know, there's jealousy, there's anger, there's, you know, there's infidelity, there's theft, there are things that you don't sort of in the same way that in the Greek mythology you see people, you see deities acting badly, right? Or in ways that show that they can make mistakes too. ANDREW: Definitely. One of my elders likes to say, you know, "They made those mistakes, you don't need to, okay?" SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: Right? But, you know. We're all human. We're gonna learn or we're not gonna learn. But we'll learn one way or another. Right? SUSIE: Right, right. So, a little bit more about deck structure. So, first of all, I noticed immediately that there were some sorts of ways in which your experience with tarot informed the deck. First of all, there's a little bit of a thought sensibility, in that your Strength and Justice are ordered in the way that the Thoth deck and the Marseilles deck do, rather than the Rider-Waite-Smith. I noticed that you have ordered it wands, cups, swords, disks, fire, water, air earth, which is a very hermetic thing. And the very fact that you call them disks also comes out of the Thoth tradition. But, I also wanted to know a little bit, for example, of ... I can sort of understand where the structure for the majors comes from, but what I wanted to know a little bit more is about the pips. Because your primary reading background comes from, as far as assigning meaning to the pips, I guess would be based in Thoth originally? I wondered if there was sort of more relationship …. Would someone who comes from a Rider-Waite-Smith tradition instantly recognize, or from a Golden Dawn tradition, instantly recognize the concepts in each of these minor cards? ANDREW: Well, I mean I think so. [laughing] SUSIE: [laughing] I can tell you that I certainly did. ANDREW: I mean, here's my hope about this deck. You know? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: I mean, so, obviously, I started with the Thoth deck, and I read with that deck for many years, exclusively. But I also read a ton of books on tarot, right, during that time. And had a lot of conversations, especially once I started branching out in the communities more, and you know, I mean, I've read lots of books on the Waite-Smith tradition, and, you know, all of that sort of and a bunch of that older stuff, you know? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: Hermetic or otherwise. So when I was, when I was creating this deck, there are … People who are reading the book, you'll come to some spots, you'll hit a few cards where it's like, you know, in the Marseilles tradition, people often think of this card this way, and I'll give a little bit of context, and then when you go and read it, it'll make a ton of sense. SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: And, that's really mostly because I could have, you know, I could have written ten times as much about these cards as I did. But Llewellyn said, you can only make the book [cross-laughter [00:37:02] SUSIE: Right, right. ANDREW: And, and I really endeavored to sort of kind of hold what I see as kind of the middle of the road on these meanings, right? I mean I didn't … the numbering is the numbering, and to me ultimately the numbering … I mean, this might be blasphemy from a hermetic point of view, but to me the numbering of the trump cards is really largely irrelevant. SUSIE: I think it's arbitrary, yeah. ANDREW: It's a historical precedent that's [inaudible at [00:37:30]. SUSIE: Although, although, Andrew, I think it's important that you made Elegua the Fool. I think, you know. ANDREW: For sure! SUSIE: Yeah. As the Orisha who comes first. ANDREW: For sure, yeah, yeah. But, but, you know, choosing Justice to be this number or that number, I'm like, eh. I almost never read the numbers when I read cards, because I just see the cards, right? SUSIE: Right, right. ANDREW: So, you know, this deck is really meant to be, you know, a kind of relatively even representation of tarot as it exists today, right? SUSIE: Yeah, yeah. ANDREW: And so, there's not … none of it's slanted too much one way or the another. There's no like "Well, you need to know that Crowley called this card the Aeon means, you know the goddess Nuit means this... SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: It's just not like that at all, right? SUSIE: Yeah, I mean, my sensation as I was getting to know the deck was really that it was about the stories, and which story fit which card best. ANDREW: Yeah. It's one of the things that I actually really … I wouldn't have guessed that I would have felt this was so important, but the feedback that I've gotten from the people who've gotten their books already, or gotten their copies already, who I shared advance copies with and stuff, is … including some non-tarot people who just are reading it because they really like me. SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: The feedback I keep getting is that the material is really accessible. And to me, that's like a really important thing. You know? I didn't want to make this difficult, I avoided using as much jargon, or like, you know, Lucumí words, as much as possible. I really, you know, I didn't get into hermetic philosophy particularly anywhere. You know there are all these branches and wings of my own personal experiences and practice, that I just brought them all down to the dining hall, I was like, "All right! Let's all have lunch to talk about stuff in a general way." SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: You know, it's hard to make that happen, so. SUSIE: Right. Well I think that, you know, I think it's really important for anyone coming to this deck to get to know the book, to read the book, really read the book, because it's, you know, it's 350 pages, it's real, it's got every single page not only has a story that's associated with the card, but also sort of breaks down the symbols that you included in the card, what its divinatory meaning might be, and sort of what the advice might be that goes with it. And I found that incredibly helpful in terms of, like, you know, if I came across a card where my own sort of tarot background wasn't making it immediately obvious to me what you were trying to do, I could just go to the book and it was really clear, you know, like within a minute. So, I think that it's … This is one of those things where … And I generally am not a person who believes that readers always have to go to the book, but I think it is really enriching and helpful to contextualize using what you wrote for this deck. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think unless somebody has a strong living practice with like, you know, with a traditional Orisha practice, yeah, it might be hard to start just by looking at it … SUSIE: Yeah, yeah. ANDREW: Most people who come from those traditions and read cards, as well, then maybe they don't need the book as much, you know. It's always interesting as I share the images on the, you know, on social media and stuff, I get, you know, priests jumping on the thing, and like, "how you choose to represent this here! it's perfect!" you know? SUSIE: [laughing] right. ANDREW: They just get it, right? Because they have both of those pieces. But it's so nice to see people be moved to see themselves and to see the tradition in this way, which is really gratifying. SUSIE: Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm. Before we move off structure and start talking a little bit more about the art and the specific cards, is there a sort of through line in each suit that we should be looking for? Something that's going on in wands only, something that's going on in cups or swords or disks? ANDREW: That was … That was a notion that I abandoned along the way. You know, in making a deck there always comes this point where the reality check steps in, and you're like, this is the limit of what I can do, you know. SUSIE: Yeah, yeah. ANDREW: And the sort of the idea that there was sort of one through line for each set of suits, I didn't really, I couldn't really find it, and you know there are a couple other ideas about levels of detail and symbolic representations that I just realized I'd be spending another five years like hand-drawing beaded things all day… SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: I'm like, that can't happen. SUSIE: Right, and if … I mean there are certainly color and number correspondences you could have worked with but, by forcing it into you know, existing tarot structure or hermetic structure I think you would have been doing something that was not necessarily conducive to the most rich environment of reading these cards. ANDREW: Exactly. SUSIE: You know what I mean? Yeah, although, I'm looking at … I've sorted it out, separated my deck out, Ace, Cups Swords, sorry, Wands, Cups, Swords, I'm looking at the Aces, and there's definitely, I get at least just from my background, I get an elemental feeling off of those cards, you know, a fire, water, air, earth feeling, and even if that's not something that you intended to do or carried throughout the deck, there's still something there, I think. ANDREW: For sure. I mean, in making this deck it's definitely … A lot of stuff just emerged in the creative process. And although I spent a lot of time thinking and writing and making notes about what went where and why and so on, when I sat down to make the cards, a lot of stuff just emerged as part of that process, you know, from the news, from the creativity, by chance or whatever, my own conscious formulated it, so there's a lot of stuff in there that happened as I was making the cards, it wasn't necessarily fully thought out … SUSIE: But which is just part of you, as a reader and a practitioner. ANDREW: Yeah. I mean, you spend 32 years working with the tarot, right? SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: It's a lot of ideas in the back of the brain there that are trying to come out in one way or another. SUSIE: Right. So, let's talk a little bit about the way the cards look for those people who haven't been lucky enough to pick up their decks yet. It's a gorgeous production, first of all, I think you, you know … the artwork's just stunning, and Llewellyn did a great job, I think, as well. First of all it's a borderless deck, which, thank you! [laughing] That's … ANDREW: Llewellyn let me do something that they had never done before, which was: all of the titles are handwritten. SUSIE: Yeah! Yeah! ANDREW: [crosstalking [00:44:55] to the cards. They're not obscured, they're easy enough to see when you're looking … SUSIE: You can find them. ANDREW: [crosstalking] Off of the bottom. They fit in more with the artwork, so it's easier to kind of just look at the artwork, or just look for the title when you need to. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: That was something that we had a bunch of conversations with … SUSIE: I think it was a brilliant choice. Because, you know, it really foregrounds the story of the art. The art fills the frame, you know, everything about it allows you to immerse yourself in what's going on in that picture, and then secondarily you, you know, check out whatever title it was so you can sort of match it up with your own tarot knowledge. But I really appreciated that and I'm really glad that they made that decision and you, you know, suggested it. And also, the colors are so saturated and so bold. So the texture and look that you were going for was based on Gwash, right? ANDREW: Well, so, actually, what I was … So, I used to paint in Gwash a lot, before I had kids. But, you know, having kids, and having a space to set up art, you know, a small, urban space, isn't really that easy, right? SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: So certainly, that's a piece of my sensibility and my aesthetic, but part of what I was really looking for was, you know, starting, it's hard to date now, but starting quite a while ago, I went from being super structured and really trying to sort of make everything perfect, to really kind of moving to a more gestural and looser way of working. And so, you know, this kind of comes out of that, you know, sort of move away from you know, sort of pursuing absolute realism to pursuing something else. And then, the other piece of the aesthetic is, you know, I wanted to include different pieces of symbolism, but I didn't want to make it look like the Thoth deck where there are so many symbols that you don't really know what to look at sometimes. SUSIE: Yes, yes. ANDREW: And so, one of the things that I decided along the way was, you know, there's a lot of use of textiles, especially in Africa and west Africa, and the Orisha traditions, there's a lot of use of textiles in making thrones, in making ceremonial outfits, you know, in making panuelos, which are these elaborate cloths that we put on top of the Orisha sometimes. And so I wanted to kind of have a reference to that without trying to like emulate it or create like, recreate specific patterns, but use that visual idea to create a space for that symbolic language to hold, right? SUSIE: Yes. ANDREW: For the use of number, and through whatever other symbols got added to those designs and so on. So. SUSIE: Yeah, I really picked up on the fact that the design sensibility behind this had that sort of sense of, you know, scope and flow and bold lines that you get in textile. And, you know, that's not something you always see in tarot, and so it was really kind of a relief to the eye to sort of not get too, I don't know, bound up in the busy? ANDREW: mm-hmm. SUSIE: Yeah. I think what we see is sort of a looseness of the line, and … But at the same time a real exactness in terms of what symbols you wanted to portray and the way that you foregrounded them in each card. So, so, you did this actually on an iPad, right? ANDREW: I did, yeah. I did all of this digitally. I've been working pretty much exclusively digitally for the last five or six years now, I guess, ever since … SUSIE: Yeah. And does that have to do with being busy, being a parent, you know, just trying to live life in addition to being an artist? ANDREW: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean I don't have a studio space, you know, I don't have … Toronto is apparently one of the most expensive cities in the world to live in, thanks for that, whoever's responsible for that … SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: But space is certainly at a premium. And, you know, the only space where I maybe could do more studio type work is at the shop, and I already spend lots of time at the shop seeing clients and doing other stuff. I don't really want to be at work even if it's sort of as a creative outlet. And the iPad, you know, it's always with me, and when I was making this deck , I would just be like, oh, I've got an hour, time to work on one of the cards a bit. You know? SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: Here's some writing. Or whatever. It's just, it's always at hand, it's super portable, and especially, I got an iPad Pro, like one of the big ones, and an Apple pencil, which finally I was able to make happen through the process and you know, it's the best thing ever, it's just … SUSIE: Yeah, and if you get interrupted, you can just save it, and pick it up later. ANDREW: And I'm sure, like from a production point of view too, you can work in layers, like in Photoshop … SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: It's a real treat. So all the backgrounds are their own layers and all the symbols SUSIE: That's great, yeah. ANDREW: The line work symbols and stuff. So if I make a mistake, if I change my mind later … SUSIE: Right, right. Plus it gives you more freedom. I mean if you're doing a background you don't want to just stop to make room for the foreground, right? ANDREW: Right? Yeah. All also, I just sent all the Photoshops to Llewellyn, and they asked me if they could take some of them apart and use pieces for making the box and other stuff, which they did, which is fantastic. I'm so delighted with it. It just, it allows for a variety of options in a way that traditional mediums just don't, you know? SUSIE: Yeah, I was really excited to realize that you did this in a digital format like that just because I didn't know that you could create art like this in that way and have it come out looking so good. You know? ANDREW: Mm-hmm. SUSIE: And the other thing is that I just, I thought it was really funny, that just practically speaking, that it made so much sense for you. This is one of my hobby horses, the idea of just how difficult it is to be both a parent and a practitioner, you know, just to live your life and try to do this work is a constant struggle. Like, you know, you're in the middle of a banishing ritual and some kid is like, coming through saying, Mom, I missed the bus! ANDREW: Yeah! SUSIE: I mean, it's like it's every day, you know, trying to make that work is tricky for a lot of us. So I'm glad you found a way to make this happen. ANDREW: Me too. SUSIE: Okay, so I'd love to, if you feel like it, I'd love to talk a little bit about specific cards. If you could just give me a second, I have to plug … My laptop's going to run out of charge. I just have to plug it in real quick. ANDREW: Yeah. SUSIE: Just, be right there. [pause] Okay, we're good. And I can strip that out of the tape, later on, if you want. Okay. So, let's talk about a couple majors. I wanted to return to the Fool card, cause I think that's super important, where you have Elegua, who is, I guess, you know I don't want to make the mistake of trying to do too much equivalency here, but he is the one who makes communication possible as I understand it. ANDREW: Yeah. Elegua is the Orisha we speak to first in every ceremony, because he opens and closes the ways, and Elegua is all of the communication everywhere, on every single level, right. If we think about the communication between every cell in your body is that communication between the parts of the universe, you know, nothing exists or could happen without Elegua being there to facilitate that transfer of information from one place to another. SUSIE: Right. Right. And so, I think, you know, that's what makes it so important and so appropriate that he's the first card in the deck. You have to, even to open your mouth, to gather the air to speak, you have to be there, right, although he also has a presence in a number of other cards as well. And what people will see, when they look at it, is, I guess the, a common representation of Elegua is the kind of stone or concrete head with the cowrie shells embedded in it, right? ANDREW: Mm-hmm. Yeah, when people … A common solution, a relatively common solution to troubles in people's lives is to receive what's referred to as the Warriors … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: Which is Elegua, Ogun and Ochossi. It's an initiation that you don't have to be a priest to have. Anybody can receive this if it's marked or required. And they come into your life to help you fight your problems and overcome your obstacles and so on. And what there's actually, people are really accustomed to seeing these cement heads with the cowrie shells, but traditionally depending on your lineage, Elegua is … they have marked the path of Elegua, and there are many ways in which Elegua might be made. But I chose to make the one that people understand the most because I wanted it to be somewhat familiar to people, for sure. SUSIE: Right, and this is actually a symbol that ordinary people might have in their homes, right? ANDREW: Maybe. SUSIE: Yeah, yeah. Well, just real quick, after I got your deck, I had the craziest dream, where I dreamed that I got up and I went outside. And this was around midnight. And the UPS truck comes, [laughing] and gives me a package with my name on it, and I open it and I suddenly start to feel really strange like I'm high or I've taken something or ingested some kind of substance, like, just through opening the package. And then I was instantly transported into some kind of rite that was going on in my dining room. And Elegua was there. [laughing] And I thought this was, obviously this is not, I knew almost nothing before this week about this tradition, but, and I certainly have no way of knowing what significance that had or what, you know I certainly can't speak for the tradition in any way, but I thought it was, so interesting that, you know, my dream maker chose to take the delivery of your deck to me as this kind of mind-altering frame-shifting event. and then introduce, you know, this personification of communication, the opener of the ways, into the dream. ANDREW: Yup. Indeed. SUSIE: So I was very grateful for that experience. Okay. The only other major I really wanted to make sure we talked about was the Priestess card. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. SUSIE: Because it's not what people would ordinarily expect to see in a Priestess card, and I thought you could talk a little bit about what we're looking at and how it relates to the High Priestess we know and love. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. So, this is actually one of the cards that gave me the biggest trouble. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: I spent a lot of time working on this card, they're a bunch of drawings that got scrapped along the way, because I was just like, no, nope, no, no, no, that's not gonna cut it, that's too simple, that's too this, that's too whatever, right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: You know, so what we see in the Priestess card, is we see a bunch of cowrie shells, right? SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And the dillogun, or the cowrie shells, are you know one of the traditional tools of divination. For olocha, for priests in the way that I'm a priest, it's the way in which we speak with the Orishas. And, when we divine with the shells, we pray, and we invoke an opening with Elegua or whoever, for an Odu, for a sign, like a, the idea almost like a card to sort of … But those energies, those Odu, are the living unfolding of the universe, right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: So, they represent all of the knowledge that was and is and all of the possible knowledge of the future, or the possible unfoldings of the future. And so, those energies that arrive when we do a reading, and come to play in the life of the person who gets the reading done … It's actually a serious ceremony to get a reading. SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: It alters the course of your life, right? And, you know when we think of the Priestess or the Papess, right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: One of the things that we can talk about is knowledge, right? And it's deep metaphysical knowledge, right? SUSIE: Right. Which isn't readily accessible to you at a surface level. ANDREW: And, when we think about the Hierophant or the Pope as sort of the outer face of spirituality, the High Priestess is the inner face. She's the inner mystery of that, right? SUSIE: Right . ANDREW: And she is that knowledge which is hard to get to, that knowledge which is hard won, and that knowledge which is tied to a deep respect and a deep cosmic awareness of the nature of the universe, right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And so this Odu and the method of divination and the process of divination, to me mirrors that, right? SUSIE: Correct. ANDREW: And so the shells become the mouth of the Priestess, right? And if we look at it in a sort of Rider Waite symbol, right? Cascarilla and the Ota, the black stone? SUSIE: Yes! ANDREW: They mirror, we use those in the divination process, but they mirror those two columns … SUSIE: The boas and jacim, yeah. ANDREW: The positive and negative vibrations that are in that sort of duality. SUSIE: And those are a kind of … Are they a yes/no kind of stand-in? ANDREW: Yeah, we use them and other things to ask specific questions within a reading. We each have … There's about a half dozen Ibo that all have ritual significance, and we use them in different ways depending on the nature of the question we're asking. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And then the other thing that's going on in this card is, usually people divine on a straw mat or a tray … SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: With cowrie shells. And some people use a wooden tray, maybe, but more often than not a straw mat. So, I wanted to create this idea of the straw mat, but then this idea that below it is this sort of cosmic opening, right? This connection to everything. SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: So, this is actually probably one of the most abstracted cards in the whole deck … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: In that it doesn't really show an Orisha or a thing that is sort of easily connectable, but I think that it really represents a sort of, that depth of knowledge and connection, direct connection to the voice of creation, that I associate with the High Priestess and that you know I associate with this divination process. SUSIE: Yes. Now the Odu themselves, they're transmitted orally, right? It's not something that you just pick up a book, and not anyone can do it. ANDREW: Yes. If you're not a priest, you cannot do cowrie shells, right? SUSIE: Got you. ANDREW: There's no … The best thing we could say is that you don't have the spiritual license, and my elders would be quite clear, you know, you can do anything you want with these shells, but they don't speak for the Orishas, therefore whatever you get is irrelevant. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: You know … SUSIE: So it's not like what we think of … As tarot readers, we just pick up a deck and anyone can give it a go, this is something that you really need to go through initiation and be crowned as a priest to do. ANDREW: And spend a long time studying, right? You know you need to understand that there are 256, technically 257 signs. Each of those signs has a specific hierarchical order of Orishas that speak in them. Each of them has proverbs, songs, ceremonies, offerings, taboos, patakis, and then each of those signs can come in ire, like the sign of blessing, or asobo, the negative sign, and then there are many kinds of ire and osogbo, and if you start to multiply those out, you start to realize how many different permutations are possible in this system . SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: It takes a very long time and a lot of study to really come to understand what all those things mean. SUSIE: Yeah, and is that something that … So, this is something that you might do as a priest, correct? ANDREW: Yeah. SUSIE: And did you internalize all of those 256, 257 signs or was it, is it an ongoing study? How does that work for you? ANDREW: There's no end to the study. [laughing] SUSIE: Right. [laughing] ANDREW: Like hermeticism. When do you know enough? SUSIE: Oh, you never know enough. No no no … [laughing] Right. Okay. Well that's really helpful in terms of getting into the card. Are there any other majors that you'd kind of like to draw attention to before we look at minors? ANDREW: No, I'm happy to take your lead. SUSIE: Great. And honestly I would like to go through every single card in the deck, and I was having a lot of trouble sort of singling out a few that might be interesting to talk about, but given our time constraints, we'll just focus on some. I was looking at … the Nine of Wands, we're kind of going in order here, Nine of Wands [static at [01:04:39] see in this card, it's so interesting, because as I understand it, from your story, this is a representation of Yamaya, or one of her avatars I guess … ANDREW: Yeah. SUSIE: And there's a shipwreck, or an underwater ship, and [static] got a knife, and the knife has clearly just been used. So, maybe you can tell us a little bit about that. ANDREW: Yeah, I mean, one of the things that people … In making the deck, I wanted to disrupt people's preconceived notions, right? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: Of certain things. You know, like people, it's common for people to say, yeah yeah yeah, if you want love, go and talk to Ochún. Right? And Ochún will help you find love. SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: He might, it's possible, but sometimes [inaudible] Ochún in what context and so on and so on, right? But you know, Ochún also doesn't really dig people complaining very much, it's not a thing that she's really that into … SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: So, depending on the attitude that you're feeling about this, Ochún might also be irritated by you approaching her about it, it's very hard to say. SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: Which is why, you know, traditional practitioners divine, right? SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: Because the good answer is, in traditional divination, any Orisha that offers to help you with a problem can help you with that problem. SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: Whether we sort of generally associate that with being their purview or not, doesn't really matter, because if they say they're gonna help, they're gonna help, and you just say thank you, right? SUSIE: Right. ANDREW: And, so when we think about Yamaya, people think about Yamaya as a sort of loving mother energy, as a sort of always supportive energy, right? You know? SUSIE: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: We really sometimes people are sent to work with her when they need sort of grounding and stabilizing of emotions … SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: But, you know, Yamaya also has many roads and many avatars, right? So we're talking about, you know, Obu Okotu, it's not gentle, she's really a lot more like a shark, right? SUSIE: mm-hmm. And so, you know, the idea, the thing that people often say, is that when the ship wrecks, she grabs the sailors and takes them down to their fate, right? SUSIE: Yeah. ANDREW: And so there's this real sort of show of strength and power with her that isn't what we would normally associate with it, but which is 100 percent a part of her personality, or at least her personality on that path, right? SUSIE: Right. And I actually thought that this was … You know, the more I thought about it, the more it tied to my own understanding of this card. I mean when I think of the Nine of Wands, I think of someone who has been derived their strength from the vicissitudes of life, from the experiences of having suffered and having learned. ANDREW: Yeah. SUSIE: And I think that … I also think of it as a very lunar card, so that made it kind of feel familiar to me as well. But also, the fact that power has a personality and ruthlessness to it, as well. ANDREW: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean the Nine of Wands often turns up to speak of people who are strong clear incredibly competent, and sometimes hard for other people to relate to because of those things, right? SUSIE: Yeah. They've been through a lot. ANDREW: Yeah, for sure. SUSIE: Yeah. Okay. Fascinating. And plus, it's just beautiful. You see the body of Yamaya, but at first you may not even recognize that it's a human form because of the blue on blue, it's a very underwater card. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Looking at -- Oh, you know, one of my favorite cards of all is your Ten of Cups. And, which I did receive this week, once, and what I love about it is the story that goes along with it. So maybe you could talk about that a little bit. Sure. So when we were talking earlier in the podcast about picking your Ore or picking your destiny, right? This card represents that process, right? SUSIE: mm-hmm. ANDREW: You know, when everybody's hanging out in Orun, up on the other side, you know where we're all spirits, eventually, people for whatever reasons decide it's time to come back to earth. You know, decide it's time to come back down here, you know, to the marketplace, to hang out and party, to fulfill something they haven't fulfilled, whatever it may be. And when they make that decision, they go, as my elders described it, you go down the hall to this room where Adela, who is the Orisha who crafts these destinies, as a series of sealed gourds … SUSIE: And that's the picture that we see on the card, we see Ajala with the gourds. ANDREW: Yeah, I mean I think of it more as a person choosing their destiny. SUSIE: Oh, I see! ANDREW: But maybe. SUSIE: Could be. ANDREW: Adula, as far as I know, I've never come across any personifications of them … SUSIE: So this, so in your mind, this was the soul choosing which one. ANDREW: But, and we don't have a sort of super clear sense of karma or carry over from one life to another. It's not really … it's a mystery that we acknowledge that we don't fully understand, right? So you go into a room full of sealed gourds, and you pick something, and you really don't know, it could be horrible, right? It could be great, whatever. But if you've been good friends with Elegua, you know, and you've kind of kept good faith with him, maybe you reach out for something and he gives a little cough and says hey, not that one. SUSIE: [laughing] ANDREW: Don't take that one. Right? SUSIE: And I love this that you have this little sketch of Elegua under the table, you know, very quiet. Very subtle. Yeah. [laughing] Just giving you a hint. ANDREW: Yeah. So once you pick your destiny, you go back and see your creator, and then your soul goes into a body. SUSIE: And you can see in the background of the card, you can see the outline of the Earth, so this idea that you're outside the material realm at that moment, choosing your fate, yeah, mm-hmm. I think that's just really beautiful. And I think it's quite relatable to, you know, in a traditional sense to the Ten of Cups, which I at least think of as the end of a cycle, you know, I often think of it as the end of the complete sequence of minors in some ways, because if you go through correspondences it immediately precedes the Two of Wands. But there's also this feeling, you know when you see the family on the Rider-Waite-Smith Ten of Cups, of this sort of being, they're taking a bow. This destiny is finished! And we're looking towards the next. ANDREW: People … the belief is that people tend to reincarnate along family
The Hermit's Lamp Podcast - A place for witches, hermits, mystics, healers, and seekers
Daniel and Andrew talk about different ways of relating to the ancestors. Especially getting into how to help the ancestors evolve and make our lives better in the process. They also get into their relatinoships to the orisha and ways of thinking about practicing a tradition that you were not born into. Daniel can be found through his site here. His events are there too. Daniel's talk on practicing other peopels traditions is here. Andrew's upcoming Ancestral Magick Course can be found here. Think about how much you've enjoyed the podcast and how many episodes you listened to, and consider if it is time to support the Patreon You can do so here. If you want more of this in your life you can subscribe by RSS , iTunes, Stitcher, or email. Thanks for joining the conversation. Please share the podcast to help us grow and change the world. Andrew You can book time with Andrew through his site here. Transcription ANDREW: Welcome to the Hermit's Lamp podcast. I'm hanging out today with Daniel Foor, and Daniel is a Ifá priest and has done all sorts of wonderful work along the lines of ancestral healing. And Ancestral Medicine is the name of the book that he has out. And he and I have a lot of similarities in practices and the kinds of things we're interested in, so, you know, lots of people have been suggesting I have him on for a while, and, and well, today's the day! So, welcome, Daniel! Thanks for being here! DANIEL: Thanks so much. It's good to be here. ANDREW: There are people who might not know who you are. Who are you? What are you about? DANIEL: Yeah, well, I ... to locate myself a bit, I'm a 40-year-old, white, cis-gendered American living in western North Carolina. From Ohio, originally, but traveled a good amount, but live in the States, and have a PhD in psychology. I'm a licensed therapist, so I have a background in mental health. But mostly I'm a ritualist, and I've been training with different kinds of teachers and traditions for over 20 years now, and started out with more shamanic pagan background with magical things, and migrated into involvement with Islam, and Sufism, Buddhist practice, and then circled back to involvement with indigenous systems and earth-honoring traditions. And in the last decade have been immersed in west African Ifá practice, lineages in the Americas and also in west Africa, and so I'm an initiate of Ifa, Obatala, and Oshun, and Egungun priesthood, [inaudible], and in the lineage of Oluwo Falolu Adesanya Awoyade, Ode Remo, in Ogun State. So I've been four times to Nigeria, and that's one influence on my practice. But mostly I teach and guide non-dogmatic, inclusive, animist ancestor-focused ritual practice. The last two years or so I have shifted to training others, which has been really satisfying after years of doing more public-facing ritual, I'm now ... I do some of that but mostly I'm training other people in how to guide the work. And I have developed a specialization in repair work with blood lineage ancestors. But I also operate from a broader animist or earth-honoring framework that isn't limited to just that. So. And I'm a dad, I'm a, you know, married, and love the earth here, and live in the American South, which is kind of strange, but also okay. Yeah. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. That's awesome. DANIEL: Yeah. ANDREW: So, I mean, I guess, my first question for you is, when did you start feeling the ancestral stuff calling you? DANIEL: Well, my own lineages are German, English, Irish, early settler colonialist to North America, and so I didn't inherit any religious or spiritual framework or culture that was of value to me in any conscious way as a young person. And so, my first teachers in shamanic practice, Bekki and Crow with the Church of Earth Healing, in the late 90s, nudged me to get to know my ancestors ritually. And it was really impactful, actually. I was surprised by it. I'd never thought about them really before that. And I ended up assisting with an older ancestral guide or teacher, my father's father who had taken his own life, and just showing up for that work, which was powerful. And it was a catalyst for me to research, do a lot of depth genealogy research about my own family history, and that dovetailed in with my training as a therapist, so I was in a period of connecting a lot of dots and valuing my own heritage, and, in a grounding way ... Not in like some awkward, go white people way, but in a way that helped me to reclaim what is beautiful about European, you know, northern western European cultures, and ... including earlier pre-Roman, pre-Christian magics and lineages. And so, I ran with that ritually. And have guided 120 maybe, multi-day, ancestor healing intensives since 2005 in that work, so I spent about six or seven years getting grounded with all of it myself. Then started to help other people with it. And it just organically developed as a specialization. And I tend to be a little obsessive about a thing, when I'm into it. I'll do that like crazy, until it's ... yeah. ANDREW: Yeah, I think ... I mean, I think it's interesting how ... Cause I do a lot of ancestral work as well, you know ... DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: I do ancestral divination work and, you know, ancestral sort of healing and lineage healing and so on. DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: You know, I've been teaching it with my friend Carrie, we have this, we developed this system of people working with charm casting as a tool ... DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: To get into that work. And, you know, we've been traveling around and teaching it everywhere. We were in China last year teaching it, and stuff like that, with people ... DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: You know, I think that the thing that sort of stands out in your story, that I think stands out everywhere, is so often, like the last little bit, you know, the last few generations, it's kind of wonky, or like there's not a lot, there's not a lot of connection or living connection. Even, you know, it wasn't until last year that I found out that my grandmother read tea leaves when she was alive ... DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And she's been gone for like 12 years, and it just never came up before. She never talked about it, and my mom just never brought it up. Not for any particular reason but it just, it just was never a thing. Even though that's the same grandmother who bought me a tarot deck when I was like 13, long ago. DANIEL: Right. Of course she did. ANDREW: But I would have talked about it, right? But how ... Often when you kind of go back, you know, a few generations or somewhere a bit deeper, you know, there are these sort of more ... evolved isn't the word that I super like, but you know, like, more grounded, more helpful, you know, ancestors with a, with a sort of more capacity to be really guides and assist you in this process, right? DANIEL: Yeah, often. It ... Where those cut-offs happen varies so widely from one demographic or even one individual to another, and I know in a lot of my own lineages, it's been over 1,000 years since anyone during life had a culturally reinforced and supported framework for honoring the ancestors. And so the older ones, the ones even before that, are quite available. So it's not ... I mean I could ... reinforce some kind of orphan victim culturally-damaged white person narrative, but it's not that sexy or useful, and so at a certain point, you're just like, well, you pick up the pieces where they're at, and get the fire going again. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: And the older ancestors are happy to do that. And so even if someone comes from a really recently and before that culturally fragmented set of lineages, the ancestors are still available, the older ones, and the main repair orientation or practice that I encourage people to try on at first is to partner with those older ancestors and with them, assist any of the dead who are not yet well, any of the ones between those older ones and the present, who are not yet really well-seated, really vibrant. Help them to become well-seated ancestors. So the dead change. It's very important for us living folks to not fix them in some static condition. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: Just cause people were a pain in the ass or really, you know, culturally in the weeds during life doesn't mean they're doomed to that condition forever. They can really change and become, not only, like, not ghosty, but they can become dynamic, engaged, useful allies for cultural healing work in the present. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: So. ANDREW: Yeah, I think it's, you know, it's a misconception that a lot of people have that they automatically change on crossing over. DANIEL: Oh, sure, yeah, that's different. (laughing) ANDREW: And then the other side of that is, you know, they can change, but it might take a bunch of work, even if they did change, right? DANIEL: Yeah, totally. Yeah, both, both are true. Yeah. The idea that just dying makes you wise and loving and kind is really hazardous actually, as a world view. So. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: Cause it'll lead to a view of ... I've seen it at times in pagan circles as well, where it's “Oh, the ancestors, ancestors are good, let's invoke them all. Okay, here are all the names of my ancestors, and the pictures, and let me light a candle and strongly invoke all of them.” ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: Well, I hope your invocation doesn't work. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: Because if it does, you're going to get a mixed bag! Cause your people are, you know, if they're well, awesome, but if they're not yet well, and your invocation works, then what you have is some not yet well ghosty energy in your space. ANDREW: For sure, right? And some of those spirits can be pretty tumultuous, you know, if they're ... DANIEL: Oh, no doubt. Yeah. ANDREW: [crosstalking 09:53] here. I have one grandfather that I continue to work with who, sort of, work on, let's put it [laughing]. DANIEL: Right. ANDREW: It's been a long time and they're still not ready to be, you know, front and center in anything, cause they just, so caught up in so much deep, deep trauma in their own life and in their generations before them, and, you know. DANIEL: One of, one of the things that I don't, I won't say it's unique to how I approach it, but it's emphasized in how I approach ancestor work, which isn't across the board, is I take a very lineage-based approach. Like I don't even really encourage, necessarily, relating with individual ancestors that much. ANDREW: Hmm. DANIEL: So in the case of someone, not to speak to your specific case necessarily, but let's say someone's grandmother is really quite entrenched in the unwell ghosty range of wellness. My strategy is to make sure that her mother and her mother and her mother and her mother and the lineage of women before them on back through time to the ancient weird witchy deity-like grandmothers, that that whole lineage is deeply well, and the repair happens from the older ones toward the present. And so, once you have the parent of the one who is quite troubled in a deeply well condition, and the whole lineage before them deeply well, as a group energy, asking them to intervene to address the rowdy ghosty grandparent tends to be ... It can ... Well, it can be more effective, simply because there's a re-anchoring of the rogue individuality in a bigger system, in a collective energy. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: And there's a respect for seniority or hierarchy, by having that person's elders be the ones to round them up. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: So, so that's. I shared that because in the West, generally, I find that people tend to conceive of ancestor reverence primarily as a relating of one individual to another individual, and, and some of the lineage or group level aspects of it can get lost, or they're not as emphasized. And so I find that's an important nuance to include, and then another is, and we've spoken to it, is just the way in which one's ancestors are not at all just the remembered dead, the ones, the recent ones, but they include ... The vast majority of them are living before remembered names. And that's helpful for people who are like, my family are abusive trolls. I'm like, okay, I believe you, but I think what you mean to say is all the generations you know about, which is probably not more than two or three. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: And so, it's like, you're at the ocean, at a windy, cloudy day, and you're saying, “Oh, the ocean is tumultuous,” well, I believe it is, right there at the beach. But the ocean's a big place, yeah. So expanding our frame for who we mean when we say ancestor is gonna be helpful too. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. For sure. Yeah, and there's lots of times when, you know, we'll make offerings or do work with all of those ancestors, right? With the Egun, right, with everybody? Right? DANIEL: Yeah. ANDREW: You know? And in those ways and so on, right? Yeah, yeah, I mean it's interesting how ... It'd really be interesting to make sure that you're looking at those things. And some of my, some of my best ancestral allies have been gone, you know, three, four hundred years, right? DANIEL: For sure. ANDREW: Or longer. DANIEL: Yeah, totally, yeah. ANDREW: They arrive, and they're just like, “Yes! You're the beacon of light amongst all of these things, and let's radiate that out to everybody afterwards and anchor further and deeper,” right? DANIEL: Yeah. For sure. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. So, when you're doing work with people, are you mostly focused on ... you know, because a lot of people come to ancestor work because they want to get messages and receive stuff and do ... DANIEL: Right. ANDREW: ...[inaudible at 13:59] kind of stuff, right? I mean, I think that that can be fruitful, too, I enjoy that kind of work as well, but that's not really what we're talking about here either, right? I mean not explicitly, right? DANIEL: Yeah. If we say like, what's the point? It can ... There are a lot of different motivations that can drive someone to want to engage their ancestors. The most common one is, “I'm suffering, will this help?” ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: That's legit. Sometimes it will help indirectly. Sometimes it will help directly because the source of the suffering is unmetabolized intergenerational trouble that's directly connected to ancestral interference, and so sometimes it, you know, it can help in different ways. Another motivator for the work is seeking life guidance, cause the ancestors have insight into our unique destiny, and can help us to move into closer alignment with that, you know, our unique instructions or soul level work in the world. As you know, in Yoruba culture, we sometimes talk about the world as the marketplace and Orun or the spirit world as home, and, and so if you forget your shopping list, working with the ancestors can be like, “Let us show you, you said this, this, this, and this,” and be like, “Oh, yeah, okay, thanks,” and so that's helpful to not waste our lives. And ancestors can be great for being a resource to parents or supporters in family, like they're especially good with all the family sphere, the domestic sphere, like being a responsible family human. And they're also good allies for cultural healing. A lot of the racism and colonialism and sexism and other kinds of cultural toxicity and garbage and bad capitalism that we're stewed in and trying to get out from underneath and help transform ... Those are ancestor, those are troubles created by the ancestors. Like, they're implicated in the trouble. And so they have, appropriately, a hand in resolving the trouble as well. And so they're great allies, by whatever form, activism, cultural change, all that. And so I really think that working closely with one's ancestors helps cultural change-makers to up their game, so to speak. So that's another motivation. And this is, I guess it's related to the one about destiny, but, inspired a bit from the Yoruba frameworks. The collective energy or wisdom of the ancestors is associated strongly with the Earth. Like the onile, the earth is like the calabash that holds the souls of the dead. And because the Earth is associated with accountability and, you know, moral authority, and is the witness through of all interactions, in that way also the ancestors carry that same quality of accountability. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: And I think whether or not people can consciously own it, some part of us craves accountability. Like we want to be seen and checked when needed. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: There's something really like ... our daughter almost made it to the top of the steps. Like, the door was open the other day. She's nine months old. But we caught her. It was good. It was way better than had we not held her in that moment. ANDREW: Right. DANIEL: And there's a way in which that kind of love and connectivity is like, “Oh, I'm not alone in the universe.” ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: If I crawl to the top of the steps, someone will pick me up. So we want that, and the ancestors bring that, as well, when we live with them. ANDREW: I think it's a, I think it's a thing that, especially, you know, in my experience, people, in Western culture, struggle with too, right? This sort of willingness to acknowledge an authority or an awareness or a position that's sort of above them in a way that they can allow in to say, “You know what, actually, we do know what's better for you in this moment.” DANIEL: [laughing] Oh, yeah, it's- ANDREW: You what, my friends, you know, going down that road has nothing to do with your destiny, or what have you, right? DANIEL: Oh, yeah! [laughing] ANDREW: Here's your fault in this mess that you're trying to put on this other person, right? DANIEL: Oh, yeah, no, people, look, I'm a teacher, also, and so often it's great and fine, and sometimes people are idealizing in awkward ways, and like, oh, don't do that, don't do that. But, but just whatever, fine, it's fine, it tends to burn out and even out. And also sometimes people are really just not okay with anything resembling a power differential or a student teacher relationship. ANDREW: Right. DANIEL: And it's ... It's tiring a little, as a teacher. Because there is a difference between telling someone just what to do in an authoritative way, and also saying, like, “Well, do you want to learn a thing? Because I know this skill. Like, what do you ... do you want to tell me how it goes, cause ... ?” So, so yeah, it is ... I think it's a function of power so often being abused, that people understandably have mistrust. ANDREW: Yup! DANIEL: Yeah. So I have compassion for it, and also the piece around hierarchy and authority is really, is challenging. In the coming months, some dear friends are going to Nigeria to do initiations and I was talking to them last night, and I was like, in the nicest possible way, “Really, your main job as the initiate is to obey.” ANDREW: Yes. DANIEL: Just to, like, the ritual is done to you, nobody really cares what you think about it. And it's totally fine. ANDREW: Stand here, stand there, [crosstalking 19:59]. DANIEL: Right! Yeah, totally, sit down, drink it, sit, eat it, say thank you. Like ... ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: Yeah. Like you're the thing being consecrated. Your input is not needed. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: Nothing personal. Next time you go back, then you can have an opinion. ANDREW: Yeah. And even then-- DANIEL: And even then, so you get one small vote. [laughing] Yeah. ANDREW: No, for sure. Yeah, let's see what people who ... I mean come for readings of all kinds, but you know, people who approach, you know, getting dillogun readings and stuff like that, and you know, the Orishas come through, and they're like, “Oh, you know what? Don't drink this year, don't, you know, whatever. Don't get tattooed. Don't, you know, no, no red beans for you.” They're like, “Well, what do you mean? I don't understand.” It's like, “Well...” [crosstalking 20:52] DANIEL: Obey! [laughing] ANDREW: What is the understanding? I mean, in a lot of that situation ... in some of those situations, the understanding is more obvious, right? DANIEL: Right. ANDREW: I had a conversation with a person who'd say, “Well, it seems like you kind of have this kind of challenge, and this is kind of the thing that might counter that,” and they're like, “Okay, yeah, maybe.” But other times it's just energetic or on other levels that it's just like, you know, it's kind of the ... It's an equivalent of saying “Hey, carry this citrine with you for the next year, it's going to help your energy,” but it's in a different structure that people don't relate to in the same way, right? DANIEL: For sure, yeah. ANDREW: And then they're like, “But, but, I don't want to be told what to do!” I'm like, “What else are you gonna do?” DANIEL: You just paid me to do that. ANDREW: Yeah, you asked, right? DANIEL: [laughing] ANDREW: You didn't have to, I wouldn't worry about it ... DANIEL: But some part of us does, some part of us really, I think wants to be told what to do. And that could go awry, and I'm not saying it's an entirely healthy impulse, but there's something about accountability and structure and community and limits, that's actually really intimate. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: And if you can't hear and accept “no,” your “yes” is meaningless. ANDREW: Mm. DANIEL: And so there's something that's precious and sweet about protocol and tradition and about structure. ANDREW: I also think that a lot of people don't really ... Faith is a really complicated and difficult thing for a lot of people too, you know? DANIEL: Mm. ANDREW: And especially when entering a new tradition, you know? And, and I think that part of what we're talking about here is also a matter of faith, right? What is your faith in the ancestors or the Orisha or whatever, and how, how do you sustain that faith through being deeply challenged by all that stuff? DANIEL: Yeah, and for me, look, I was involved with different Orisha teachers in the States, American, for the most part, and ... it didn't work out that well, for the most part. I mean, complicated. But I ... I felt like there was a lot of restrictive and unhealthy and kind of confused energy around it. And I had an opportunity to go to Nigeria to reset some of the initiation-like things that had happened here, so I took a risk on it, and I'm like, “Well, this is either gonna be like the final straw, or some breakthrough,” like, “let's pray for the latter.” And I saw kind of a non-dogmatic group community like, in my Ifá initiation, there were men aged like 80 to five, holding space. Like, and 20, 30 people there. And people were teasing each other, playing, and having a good time. Like the people were well human beings, they seemed happy. And so that relaxed, teasing heart aware energy. I'm like, “Oh, good, this is what I was looking for.” And it helped ... For me, it helped me to trust, and just not fight the system. I'm like, “Just tell me what to do.” Just okay, “eat the pig dung,” okay, “Leave me a bite,” or whatever. Whatever it is. Just tell me what to do. So. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: Yeah, it's great. ANDREW: I used to, you know, get some people who would bring their, you know, like, elderly, Cuban elders to the store. You know? And pick up stuff. DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: You know, they're here in Toronto to do a thing, and they'd bring this person to the store, right? And you know my Spanish is not great [laughing] and their English was not great, and we'd like, know some like, Yoruban words in common or whatever. And you would see how sweet and genuine and nice they were. And then they'd notice that like, you know, I've got plants growing at the front of the store for working with religion, and they'd be like, “oh, alamo,” I'd be like, “yeah, yeah,” and we'd have this like sort of pidgin conversation and a bunch of other things, and mostly what it would be is our hearts being opened, all this sharing of our love of this religion and these spirits ... DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And the continuity of that. And it was such a beautiful and uplifting experience, even though there wasn't a lot of words that were associated with it. There was just so much communication happening at other levels, and you could, you know, I could feel my Shango just being happy about it, you know, be like whoever there, too, just being happy about it, and so on. You know? It's so uplifting in that way, right? But ... DANIEL: That's good. It's one of the things in, you know, we had mentioned in our previous chat about my talk on practicing the traditions of other people's ancestors. And-- ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: I respect it a lot about the necessary and important dialogues around cultural appropriation, and especially, not only, but especially around respecting different Native North American or First Nations, as you say, traditions, and being mindful of what the conditions of involvement, if that's open, to non-Native people are, etc., and what's important to understand is those same parameters are not universal, and how cultures are shared and understood from one part of the world to another really vary. And Yoruba culture, for example, is generally an open system. Yoruba people in my experience, in Yorubaland, have never had anyone feel off about me being there and training in Orisha, except for the Christians, who were like, “Why don't you want Jesu?” I'm like, “We have Jesu where I'm at,” it's like, “It's fine, like, go Jesu!” but it's not why I'm here. And one of the things that is important though, is, it's family, like you're stepping into a family, a spiritual family. It's not like a “Hey bro, thanks for the culture, now I'm gonna go back and set up shop, I got what I need.” There's a ... And so when your teachers hit you up for money, it's family. That's what like, you can't be part of a family and have a bunch of stuff, and then other people don't have something, and you don't share it. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: And so it's ... It's not like you're getting exploited. I mean, that also happens. But just the ethic of sharing and supporting one another. If people don't want that, then they might not want to get involved. because most indigenous systems that I know of that are open to people not of that blood ancestry hold things in a family-oriented way. There's intimacy with that, but there's also connectivity, reciprocity, accountability. Yeah. ANDREW: And, you know, so, you know, my immediate family where I was initiated lives in the Detroit area, and my, you know, my elders are in Miami, you know, and like, but like, especially when the Detroit folks are doing work, you know, especially bigger things like making priests, you know, I always show up, like, you know, it's like you, when they're doing the work, and you're like, “Oh, it's so inconvenient for me to take four or five days off and go down there and help out, right?” And it's like, yeah, it's inconvenient, and you know, it's time off work, and it's whatever, but it's what those people did for me, right? And it's what allows all of that to continue, and it's a chance to, you know, to also sustain those connections, and you know, sing together, and sit and joke together, and, you know, complain about handling the ... cleaning up after the animals together, and whatever, it's just part of it, right? Like ... DANIEL: Right. ANDREW: And in the absence of being willing to engage that community element of it, right? It's pretty ... If you don't have the community element in one way or another, especially in the Orisha tradition, you don't really have much of anything, you know? DANIEL: It's true, with the tradition, it in my experience is very communal, and there are a lot of ritual domains of activity you just can't pull off solo. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: And it's just that, you know, it's a lot of hard work, it's heavy lifting. And for people who have worked with psychoactives, there's a certain kind of feeling among the group after a long, successful, like all night acid trip, when the sun's coming up, you're sort of like, “Oh, we've just gone through something together.” ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: And, and, minus the LSD, there can be a sense after a multi-day ritual of a strong sense of magic and beauty and intimacy that's shared through all the effort and all the devotion ... ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: That it takes to keep old lineages of practice alive. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: Yeah. ANDREW: For sure. And I think it's, I mean, one of the other points that I think was super important ... It's been a while since I listened to that talk and we'll link to it in the show notes, cause it was a good talk. Folks should go back and listen to it. You know, is also the fact that these are living traditions, right? They have continuity. DANIEL: Yeah. ANDREW: And, you know, but there's a big difference between, hey, we're gonna call up some Greek deities and see what happens, you know, and, like, or you know, see what happens sounds dismissive, I don't mean it in that way. And you know, there's nobody, there's no continuity to ancient Greece, in that particular way, versus there are people who've been practicing these traditions from person to person to person, all the way through until now, and you can actually go and ask those people and they can answer you as to what's done and how it's done and why it's done. DANIEL: Yeah. No, it's true. People don't ... If they don't know something, would be in the habit of divining on it, but I wouldn't want someone to, like, not go to flight school and then divine on how to fly the plane. [crosstalking] Yeah. ANDREW: Yeah. There's that great proverb, which I'm sure you know, which is “Don't ask what you already know,” right? DANIEL: Right. ANDREW: And I think that there's a sort of choleric glory to that which is, you know, there are things you just shouldn't ask, cause you should already know them, right? DANIEL: Right. ANDREW: You don't need to ask if we do this thing because we know we don't. You know? DANIEL: Yeah. ANDREW: We know that Oshun won't take this as an offering. We know that we don't do this kind of thing. We know that, like, you know, you don't ask if you could rob a bank cause the answer's already no. You know? DANIEL: Right. And there's a beautiful essay [inaudible 31:07] by Ologo Magiev [31:09], a child being asked to divine, and their parents died young and so they didn't get the information. And so they invoke their ancestors, and bring a lot of humility, and wing it, and it turns out fine. And, and I think there's also this kind of an implicit message, “And don't do that again. Don't pull that card too many times.” ANDREW: Right? DANIEL: [laughing] Then go train! ANDREW: For sure, right? DANIEL: So, it's both. The deities have kindness, and benevolence, and also, careful! ANDREW: Yeah. And, you know, I was traveling, and I got a call that a friend of mine was like at death's door in the hospital, basically, right? And, you know, and I was just literally at a rest stop getting, gassing up the car when I checked my phone in the middle of New York State, right? DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And I was just like, all right. And so I went and, you know, kind of looked around for some stuff, and it's like, there's nothing, like I can't, there's nothing I could really sort of put together here, so I just collected a bunch of white flowers and, you know, it's really hilly, right, so I just took them to a spot that I thought was appropriate for Obatala ... DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: And I was like, Obatala, this is all I have today. I'm here, it's this situation, and I need you to accept these and intercede in the situation. And you can get away with that. But that's not practicing the tradition. And that's not gonna, as you say, it's not gonna fly all the time, right? DANIEL: Yeah. ANDREW: When you're at home, you can do all sorts of other things, you have your shrines or your ancestors or wherever you're working with, right? They will accept these things, cause they do understand circumstance and they're not tyrannical about it, right? They just say, you don't want that to be your way of practicing forever. DANIEL: I spent years like, I don't know, not quite 20 years, not involved in a really dedicated way in one set tradition. I was training with different traditions for a period of time, and would definitely learn stuff, and would develop my own ashe [33:20] or whatever, but I wasn't like embracing one fully, as an operating system. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: But I learned that it's possible to do it that way. That was actually really helpful to me. That it's possible to go deep with one's own ancestors, to go deep with the spirits of the land, where you're at. ANDREW: Sure. DANIEL: And to get to know them, and to get clarity about your own destiny and to just constellate in the different powers and forces and spirits that are gonna help you to do that. And I also ... that there's loneliness in going it solo, as well. There's like a freedom and a loneliness, both. And it drove me eventually to ... You know, I spent almost ten years involved in Orisha practice and Yoruba ways before I decided to initiate. And it's like a long slow dating process. It wasn't a lot of charisma. It was like, oh, you're the last one left standing, and ... ANDREW: [laughing] DANIEL: We have a ton of compatibility, why are we not doing this? And I go, okay, I guess we're gonna do this. So we just had the high match on the dating, you know, religious dating profile website. So I'm like, oh, maybe we should try this. And, and I haven't regretted it at all. It's very ... It's been a relief. The sense for me is of being held in a bigger frame. And it's not really ... It's not what I teach publicly, I'm not publicly offering services in that way, even though there are certain ones I could, in integrity. I'm still in training, I'm still trying to learn Yoruba language, and especially with a west African orientation of practice it's such an aural language-based tradition, especially Ifá practice in particular, so I'm trying to hold a ... I think if you're not ancestrally of a tradition, the standards are even a bit higher for you to get it right, which I think is fair and understandable. Especially with the cultural climate of racism in the west and all that, for European ancestor people to be doing west African Ifa, you need to not look like a fool doing it, and so part of that looks like studying the language and really, you know, taking to heart the training. ANDREW: Mm-hmm. DANIEL: But, it's possible to go really deep without stepping into a tradition. And there are a lot of ritual advantages to having a system to work from, as well. So I appreciate both sides of that. Yeah. ANDREW: Yeah, for sure. I think you can get there ... I think you can accomplish the same ends either way, right? DANIEL: Yeah, yeah. ANDREW: I think that where it gets, where it gets touchy is where you're solely working independently, but within the set of spirits that has a living tradition. If you're only working independently and devoid of traditional teaching, you know, that's where it starts to become a question for me of what ... DANIEL: Well, yeah, no, if the main powers you're working with are the Orisha, it's like, well, you've got to, here's the front door. You can try crawling in the window, but it's going to go badly, so. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: Yeah. But if you're just working with the weird old land gods and your own ancestors, you can get away with it. yeah. ANDREW: For sure. DANIEL: Yeah, for sure. ANDREW: Yeah. I also like the weird old land gods. You know? There's this beautiful ravine, you know, about a two-minute walk from the shop, [crosstalking 36:45] in Toronto. It runs through and you know, under there, there's sort of part of a buried river, that was once upon a time up on the surface, and all sorts of stuff, and there's wonderful and magical energies that are there, and really fascinating things have happened in that space over time. You know? Like I was ... I was there making a ... dealing with something and helping somebody, and making an offering essentially to the spirit of that place in the snow, right? And then when I came out of sort of the wood part back onto the path, all of these moths emerged, these white moths. And I'm like, there's snow on the ground, and it's snowing right now, what is going on with these things? And I'm like, all right, I'll take it. Big old yes from the spirits of this place on that thing, you know? DANIEL: Mm-hmm. ANDREW: So I mean yeah, there's some amazing stuff that can happen in those ways, for sure. DANIEL: Nice. Yeah. ANDREW: So, I mean, first thing is, I'm going to ask you now if people should, if they're listening to this, and they want to think about starting a, you know, where they should start? And I know that one of the answers is definitely, they should go read your book, cause your book is great. DANIEL: Sure. ANDREW: But like, for the context of our conversation today, where would you kind of point people? Where, where do you point people [inaudible 38:02]? DANIEL: I'm not a very trusting person, really. So, if I were to listen to this conversation, and I didn't know that I'm a good person, I would go to my website, which is ancestralmedicine.org. Root around there, see what the vibe is, and there are other talks, or whatever, and see if you, you know, get an instinctual, this guy's not crazy vibe from where I'm coming from, and if you're drawn to the ancestral work, there are three main ways to engage. One is to connect with one of the practitioners in the directory there. And there are 30 some people at this point who are trained in the work. Men, women, all different genders of people [38:43--not sure I've got his exact words here], ancestrally diverse people, lots of different opportunities for low income sessions, sessions in seven languages, so, opportunities to connect with people directly for session work. That's the most efficient way. Another is that I offer an online course that starts in December, that's thorough, and it maps along the heart of the book, chapters 5 through 9, which is lineage repair work, and there's a lot of support throughout that course, so that's an option, and I'll also be offering a course through the Shift network in the fall. And then, a third way is the in-person trainings. And the last one I'm going to guide probably in North America will be in just over a week in Ottawa, the 24th to the 26th, and there's a talk on August 22, next Wednesday, in Ottawa as well, and all the info on that is on my site, and additionally, to that, there are trainings in maybe ten cities and also coming up in Australia and Mexico and maybe Russia and Canada and Victoria, so. And those are done by students who I trust to guide the work. So in person work, online course, or sessions, are, in addition to the book, the three main ways to plug in. Yeah. ANDREW: Perfect. DANIEL: And, and, you know, like just to say it, if you're wary of people, which is warranted, this approach to the work doesn't involve the practitioners or me or anybody saying, “Hey, this is what your grandmother says to you.” It's about stepping the individual through a process of reclaiming and re-energizing their ability to connect directly with their own people. So, it's an empowering approach in that way. It's not somebody getting all up in the mix and channeling messages to your people. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just not this approach, so. And especially if your family's a mess, it's useful to do ancestor work. Cause you get some space from all that, and connect with what's beautiful and trustworthy in your own blood and bone lineages. So that's grounding, it's helpful, also for the cultural healing that's needed. ANDREW: Yes. Well and I think it can be quite liberating, you know, because we're carrying those patterns, right? DANIEL: Oh, yeah. So you can relate consciously or unconsciously with your people, but you don't get to opt out of relatedness. Yeah. ANDREW: Exactly, right? And if we can tidy those up and take some of that burden off of us or free ourselves from that, right? Then we get to show up much differently in that way, right? DANIEL: Yeah. I think the masquerades in Yoruba culture, Egungun, and it's a blessing when they come around, but it's also a lot of people try not to be touched by them. And so there's ... It conveys something about the ancestors, like, they're dangerous to avoid and they're dangerous to have around. ANDREW: Yeah. DANIEL: But, whatever, it's just like living humans. [laughing] ANDREW: For sure. People are challenged on both sides of the veil, right? DANIEL: [laughing] Yeah, exactly. ANDREW: For sure. DANIEL: So, good. ANDREW: Well, thank you so much for making time today, Daniel. It's been great to hang out and chat with you. DANIEL: For sure, thanks, Andrew, thanks for your service, here. Blessings on everything you're up to. ANDREW: Thank you. DANIEL: Yeah. Good.
The Hermit's Lamp Podcast - A place for witches, hermits, mystics, healers, and seekers
TeeDee and Andrew talk about the values of initiation. How it changes a person and how that enhances ones talents. They also talk about Oshun and how Teedee understands her after 20 years of initiation. Connect with TeeDee on her website. Think about how much you've enjoyed the podcast and how many episodes you listened to and think consider if it is time tosupport the Patreon You can do so here. If you want more of this in your life you can subscribe by RSS , iTunes, Stitcher, or email. Thanks for listening! If you dig this please subscribe and share with those who would like it. Andrew ANDREW: Welcome to another installment of The Hermit's Lamp podcast. I'm here today with T-D González, who I know from the Orisha community, and who has been making some wonderful product and really representing some of the things that I think are significant and important about both tradition and initiation. So, for folks who don't know you, T-D, who are you? What are you about? T-D: [laughing] So, I am an Olorisha of the Afro-Cuban Lucumí tradition, initiated to the Orisha Ochún. I was ordained in Cuba in 1999. I live in Los Angeles, California. I'm a mother of two little boys. I'm a widow. I have a lot going on. And I've enjoyed making spiritual baths, which was one of the first things that I learned, one of the first things that many of us learn in the religion. And I've been doing that for about 20 years now, and I just recently began to sell a dried spiritual bath utilizing the herbs that we use in Orisha worship, in Lucumí Afro-Cuban Orisha worship that pertain to Ochún, so it's an Ochún bath. And I'm really excited about it, I love making it, I love working with the herbs, and it's a lifelong learning process for me. ANDREW: Mmmhmm, yeah, it's awesome. I think we need to definitely talk about the herbs but the first question that I want to kind of start with us talking about is, who is Ochún? T-D: [laughing] ANDREW: Right? And I ask this because, you know, I had David Sosa on a while back, and we talked -- T-D: Mmmhmm, mmmhmm, my dear friend. ANDREW: Local human. And, I think it's really important because I think Ochún is, possibly from what I see, one of the most popular of the Orishas, and yet so much of what I see, in general conversation from, you know, people outside of the tradition doesn't often jive very well with my understanding of her from a traditional context at all. T-D: Right. ANDREW: And even in the traditional context, you know, I mean, some of my elders basically say, well she's kind of unknowable. T-D: Right. And she's a deeply misunderstood Orisha. ANDREW: Right! T-D: She's very popular and well loved, probably because of her beauty and because of her dominion over some of the aspects of life that obviously all of us are striving to attain or to enjoy. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: But she is deeply misunderstood. So -- And she means different things, probably, to different people, even among initiates. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: I see Ochún as elegance and beauty, but maybe not necessarily in the most apparent ways or in the most superficial ways. And I definitely see Orisha as working through other people. So Ochún for me is a motherly figure -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And she's forgiving and she's understanding and she's compassion, but she also can be stern, and she also can teach us very difficult lessons. And she also demands respect. And she demands regard for the counsel that she gives us, you know. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: So, in some ways I always say, you know, I'm a little bit afraid of Ochún. I'm dedicated to her, I'm crowned to her, I love her, obviously, I've dedicated my life to Ochún, and she's blessed my life in many many ways. But Ochún is not an easy crown to wear. People make lots of assumptions about her children and things of that nature. Ochún is a very complex Orisha. On, you know, in the most basic terms, you know, we can say Ochún is a healer, Ochún heals with fresh water, Ochún also makes herbal decoctions, Ochún is a diplomat, Ochún is an astute businesswoman, Ochún is multifaceted, she's an incredible cook, she's a wonderful and caring mother, she's a wonderful mate, there are many aspects of Ochún. And obviously, then there is the connective part of Ochún in terms of sparking human connection between one another. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: One of the praise, Oríkìs or praise names for my aspect of Ochún, is Oneabede. A bede is that long brass needle that's used to sew nets. So we can say she knits together the fabric of families ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: Or the web of societies. We could just go on and on. ANDREW: For sure, yeah. And I think about Ochún in my life, who's been, ever since I, ever since I sort of entered the religion in about 2000, she's been a constant. Right? She's always standing up for me, always there to help me, you know, always showing up when I need something ... T-D: And she's a fighter! [laughing] ANDREW: She is a fighter, right? And like you said, she demands her respect in a way that is unquestionable, you know? So before we do a ... what's called a reading of entry ... T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Which is before you get crowned, there's a reading that gets done to make sure that everything's good for the ceremony space, right? T-D: Right. Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Has everything been covered, do we have all the right things, is there some unexpected problem? T-D: Right. Some call it the vista or the obo de entrada, or, you know. ANDREW: Yeah. And Ochún, in my reading of entry, showed up and says, "So no matter who's marked as your mother this weekend, I'm always your mother." T-D: Right. ANDREW: And I was like, "That's right, Mom, you are!" You know? And that continues. And it's definitely that respect piece, but, it's also ... There's a profound intelligence? T-D: Absolutely. ANDREW: That I think that gets overlooked ... T-D: Absolutely. ANDREW: And that diplomat, that business piece, that ... T-D: That social intelligence, that's really really important. You know? ANDREW: Yeah. Mmmhmm. T-D: It's really important. And the whole piece of love, love goddess, and that whole thing, procreation, productivity, which she kind of dovetails, obviously, with our supreme, you know, Obatala, is, I think that the element that has to do with love speaks to self-love. And self-acceptance. And self-forgiveness. As much as anything else. It's not always a sexual kind of thing, you know, and attracting the things that we want to -- Ochún has a lot to do with attraction, Ochún has a lot to do with transformation, but it's not always in a sexual way. It can sometimes be and obviously it is, but those aren't the only, you know, avenues for that element in our lives. ANDREW: Yeah, for sure. So, I think I'm just going to have to collect a bunch of children of Ochún speaking about her nature over time on this podcast. T-D: And I'm sure you'll get 50 different answers -- ANDREW: Yeah! T-D: From 50 different children of Ochún, but -- ANDREW: It will be beautiful. T-D: I want to speak to this thing that you talked about, this whole thing of aché, that we know that we're born with aché, right, and so this aché is this divine, if you want to call it grace, if you want to call it energy, you know, different people call it different things, we're all born with this, right, and we're all made up of this. And some of Vershare's writings even allude to the idea that Oldumare is aché, that God Almighty is aché. We're born with it. And we have our gifts and our grace and our energy, but then to actually be ordained as a priest is to receive the specific aché that we require in order for us to ethically fulfill our destinies, right? That's this idea that we chose a path, that we chose a destiny before we were born. And that we require this aché of these Orishas that we receive aché of, in order to be whole, in a sense, right? Or to be fully aligned with our higher selves. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And so when we receive this aché, this aché that we receive is not the same aché that we're born with. It's really an amplification, an augmentation of what we have. And then it's almost like, you know Willy talks about this in some of his classes, the oreate ritual specialist Miguel Ramos, talks about this idea that it's almost like you have a bank account deposited of aché. ANDREW: Mmm. T-D: And then you receive, you know, augmentations to that from ceremonies or initiations or additional rites that you undergo. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And then your behavior and your character help to augment that or to multiply that or deplete it depending on how we conduct ourselves. So those are kind of some avenues or some conversations about aché, and then obviously we have the aché of our, of the Orisha to whom we're primarily dedicated as priests. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And I think we work for the rest of our lives to kind of develop that and grow that thing, and -- ANDREW: Yeah. And I think there's one other piece that sort of falls into that as well, right? Is that we are initiated, and we receive the energy, the aché -- T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: The grace, right? T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: The connection to the spirit and so on, right? T-D: Yes. ANDREW: But we also are initiated into a lineage. T-D: Absolutely! ANDREW: And we are connected to this line of people and Orishas and aché that go back -- T-D: Absolutely. ANDREW: As far as we can remember. T-D: Absolutely. Absolutely. That's essential. ANDREW: And I think that this notion of, or this practice of, being initiated into a lineage also adds to it, because ... T-D: Absolutely. ANDREW: It gives us permission, or some people might use the word license -- T-D: Right, licencia. Mmmhmm. ANDREW: To work with these spirits, and it forms a contract or a ... you know, most often talked about, like a family bond, right? T-D: Right. ANDREW: Because we use the word egun, which means ancestors ... T-D: Right. ANDREW: And when we use the word egun, we mean our ancestors by blood, our family ... T-D: Right. ANDREW: And our ancestors by initiations -- T-D: Or by lineage, right. ANDREW: And I think that this conjunction of the two forces, right? The energy that we receive directly from people, from our ceremonies, and from the spirits themselves, and that energy that we can access and that we can work with through working with these ancestors, I think that that combination really is where the magic happens? T-D: Absolutely. I agree with you wholeheartedly, cause you're calling on that energy. ANDREW: Yeah! T-D: You're calling on that energy before we do anything, right? ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: When we recite our mouba, we're literally praising God and the deities and the elements and we're literally calling the names ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: Of those who came before us, of our lineage, and we're calling the names of those exalted priests who existed before us even from outside of our lineage ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: I think that's essential. And yeah, that absolutely speaks to that concept of ritual license. That aché that you receive as an initiate endows you with something that will develop in time with training into ritual license and the ability to perform and to function as a priest on behalf of yourself, on behalf of others, to benefit the community, absolutely. And that is an essential piece, and it speaks to what the Cubans call fundamento, because if you don't have that you're just kind of floundering, fooling around, and this is not that type of thing. And there are absolutely different spiritual traditions and there are people who are born with deep gifts ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: With deep connections to their own ancestors, to their own spirit guides. There are people who have to do little to no work to have the things that they do flourish, but Orisha worship is different from those types of systems and traditions. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: This is absolutely a communal system that requires ordination, initiation, training at the foot of elders, recognition by one's elders. As I said, this is definitely a learning path ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: That one sets their foot upon and they will continue to learn for the rest of their lives. ANDREW: True. T-D: My mother in law lives with me. She's 85, she just celebrated her 60th year as an Olorisha of Ochún, she has crowned many godchildren, she's a wonderful Diloggún diviner, she is an incredibly knowledgeable herbalist, she's just an all-around Olocha of the type that was fairly common 60 years ago when people were kind of all living on that island in that environment and didn't have, didn't function or have to deal with some of the stresses of a modern life in a large place, you know? And she still reads, and she still studies, and she still learns, and she still asks questions in rituals. And she may be one of the -- she's definitely one of the most knowledgeable people, you know, functionally, in terms of ritual competence, that I know. And so it just tells me, this is a learning path, we're on this path for life. ANDREW: Yeah, I think it's, I think that it's really a significant point, right? I think that a lot of people have a notion about spirituality, whether it's this path or another path, and I know when I was younger I had this notion, that we will at some point arrive. T-D: Right. ANDREW: At some point we will get there, and we will be, we will know the things, we'll stop having questions ... T-D: Right. ANDREW: We'll stop whatever, right? And, you know, I mean, I look at the elders that I know, and they're always still asking questions, right? T-D: Right. ANDREW: And it's one of those things that the more I learn about these traditions, and even in my Western mystery stuff, even though I decided to walk away from that path ... T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I could see how much more there was to learn, and that it was infinite, right? T-D: Right. ANDREW: And I think that it's really important to cultivate that sort of curiosity and engagement, right? T-D: Absolutely. ANDREW: I also think it's interesting, cause you brought up, and I want to kind of talk about this for a bit, before we lose it in the flow of the conversation -- T-D: Okay. ANDREW: That distinction between like Espiritismo, and muertos, like spirits of the dead, right? T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, you know, what we would call, what more people might call spirit guides ... T-D: Right. ANDREW: You know, guardian angels? T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know, in the sense of like, some spirit that looks over us, and, what do you see as the role of those spirits in your life or in people's lives in general? Because I often see people conflate them with Orisha or with other things, and I'm curious. T-D: Right. And it's -- it's easy to do, especially when we are in a tradition where many of us, and most of our elders even, will use the word egun for everything, right? Anything that's dead is egun. ANDREW: Right. T-D: So, even if they're talking about spirit guides, which we would say muertos, or guías, or protectores, or even ... ANDREW: Ada Orun. T-D: Right, Ada Orun, or even Ada Orun, it's easy to flip that tongue. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: But yeah. Or even where they, some people talk about -- sorry -- even they use the word egun, people who are practitioners of Palo. So it just kind of gets thrown across the board. So it's -- I think it's important for us to be able to kind of designate or understand the differences, so we don't have this kind of totally crucado kind of crossed up situation, but I think that they are important. I think that a lot of that kind of -- I don't want to call it confusion, but kind of mixed up language, comes from the fact that we are ... Our religious practices and our spiritual practices descend from multiple ethnic groups of people that intermixed together in one geographic location, and so we have people practicing multiple spiritual traditions, you know, again, there's a creolization, it's not just strictly this Yoruba thing, because this is not just a Yoruba religion any more, in terms of the ethnic group. And it hasn't -- it hadn't been that way in a long time in Cuba or Brazil either. And now even more so, it is not, because we've got this kind of universal religion now, where people of different races and ethnic groups and backgrounds are practicing these religions, so. Excuse me. But back to your actual question was, I think that spirit guides have a very important place, I think Espiritismo has an important place in the overall practice of Afro-Cuban religion, because I believe that it fills in some gaps that were missing, and this is one school of thought. There are many schools of thought; there are others who will disagree. And I don't necessarily think -- I don't think it's filling in gaps that have to do with egun or ancestral practices, the more I learn about traditional Yoruba religion and the more that I study and read about that, it seems almost like Espiritismo tape kind of fills in some gaps that are missing with Egbe worship, that did not transfer to the New World. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And so, oftentimes you'll hear Yoruba scholars describe Egbe as Yoruba Spiritism. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: Because Egbe is not an Orisha, and it's not one entity, it's like a group of entities that exist in the spiritual realm, and so the more I read of that and learn of that, I see, or I believe, I'm led to believe, that perhaps this filled in a bit of a gap where that was concerned. But I think for all of us, I mean, I come from a house where a lot of Espiritismo is practiced. My elders are espiritistas. I was married to a Palero and espiritista, and I just see how it functions in the life. Once people become developed, it can just help you in so many ways, just in so many little practical ways. But it is a separate practice from Orisha. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And so I think what often happens is, people who are outside of the religion, who do not have elders, are being led by spirit guides to do things, and they believe that they are interacting with Orisha. And, I just don't think that's the case. So all these girls that you see on Instagram and other forms of social media building these empty altars, altar tables, or they're calling them shrines, that don't have any Orisha in them with all kinds of pretty little knick-knacks and afefedes and mirrors and compacts and things -- those are likely -- I believe the impetus for that is a spirit guide that's pushing them to do that. But they just think it's Ochún. Or they think it's Yamaya. And so they've set up their altar, you know. That's what they really believe, and I think that push is so strong coming from those guides that it's pushing them to do something and they are doing something. And these dreams that they have that they're ... ANDREW: Mmm. T-D: You know, that they may be misinterpreting cause they don't have elders to guide them. ANDREW: Well, and I think that there's an important sort of magical concept at play that people lose track of, or they don't like it. T-D: Okay. Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Which is, when spirit speaks to us, right? They can only speak to us through our conscious and our unconscious, right? And so that communication is very easily flavored. Right? T-D: Okay. [nodding] ANDREW: By our ideas, by our hopes, by our aesthetics ... T-D: Right. ANDREW: By our concepts. And this ... The capacity to differentiate between different kinds of spirits or, you know, whatever, right? T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I think is very difficult. And if a spirit shows up and wants to help you, and you're like, "Please be Ochún, please be Ochún, please be Ochún," and it's ... It's kind of in that neighborhood, you know? T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Like, overlaps with that energy, of course that communication is going to get covered with that, right? T-D: Right. ANDREW: You know, it's gonna, it's gonna get clothed in those symbols and ideas, right? T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know? And I think that it's really interesting to sort of try and understand how those communications and how those things happen, right? T-D: It does. ANDREW: And I think sometimes it's an ego piece. Sometimes it's an unconscious piece. Sometimes it's ... You know, sometimes it comes from the spirit too, right? T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know? But I think that it's really important for people who are exploring in directions like this to, you know, to try and be clear about it and to, you know, if you're looking to go in those directions, you know, considering looking for more traditional verification, you know? T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Because that's gonna be way more fruitful over time. T-D: Yeah. ANDREW: You know? Because the challenge that I've noticed with a lot of people is, they get pulled into something and into working in a direction, and then they don't know where to go, and the spirit can't guide them further, and so then they get stuck and their life becomes, you know, not what they hoped it would be. T-D: Right. ANDREW: Or they have problems, and not because the spirit's necessarily making them, but because it can't take them anywhere else ... T-D: Right. ANDREW: And then, and then they become disenfranchised, or bitter, or they get deeper issues kind of emerging from that, right? T-D: Yeah. An important factor, I think, is [sigh]. I don't want to throw this all on millennials this or millennials that. ANDREW: Uh huh. T-D: But, you know, different age cohorts do have some tendencies and so we may see a lot of this with millennials not wanting to, you know, follow the rules, or have guides, or submit themselves to elders, or this kind of thing, but I think it's important to just kind of lay it out on the line, that, number one, one factor that isn't necessarily specific to millennials, is that you have people who are kind of -- they may be rejecting, or seeking something outside of the Abrahamic traditions, and so when they find other religions or Afro-Caribbean spirituality, they may be operating under the misconception that because there's not a church per se, that these are not structured religions that have orthodoxy. ANDREW: Right. T-D: And so that can create conflict and a lot of problems. Because these are very structured religions. There is orthodoxy. They are hierarchical religions. They are oral traditions, largely, even though now we have more learning resources that are not ... ANDREW: I think that that is actually, you know, I mean, I'm, I don't know about the millennialness of it ... T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I mean, you know, I think that the issues ... Every generation has their own ideas, right? T-D: Right. ANDREW: But I certainly think that being ... Everybody in this day and age who has access to the Internet, right? has ideas. T-D: Mmmhmm, mmmhmm. ANDREW: And the amount of people who show up in my orbit who have sort of notions that they've picked up from somewhere that are really quite not traditional, you know? I think it's because of this flood of information ... T-D: There is. ANDREW: And people want it, and so much of it is ... It's kind of half-baked, you know? T-D: It is. There's a lot of incorrect. I mean there are people ... You can go on YouTube and there are people who have tens of thousands of followers who are not giving accurate information. Or who are giving information or who have a perception or what they're voicing is really not orthodox or traditional at all. And so then when someone comes in contact with people who are part of the community and they encounter that orthodoxy, it might throw them off. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: Or even put them off. You know? ANDREW: Right. T-D: Which I think is unfortunate. But I think, you know, there are some aspects of the religion that you can access, just in terms of historical facts, you know? This started out, you know, as an imperial religion that was a part of a culture that believed in the divine right of kings and that the kings are direct descendants of Orisha ... ANDREW: Sure. T-D: And, you know, us, we're, our practice comes largely from the Oyo empire, and so there's lots of structure and strictures and all that kind of thing that exists. It's not just this free-flowing kind of whatever you feel type of thing. And so, I think it's important for people to kind of at least try to learn a little bit about the historical stuff. Just take bites of it, you know? ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: Cause that will kind of put you in a better place, really, than just watching lots of YouTube videos ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And things like that. ANDREW: I also think it's interesting because I think that a lot of people who I run into who come into the tradition or are considering coming into the tradition, right, or are coming for a reading or something ... T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I feel like a lot of them don't know what to do with the reading that they get, right? T-D: Mmmhmm, got it. ANDREW: Someone shows up and they get a reading, and they come in a sign, and it comes out that everything's firm and solid and good, you know? T-D: [laughs] Mmm. ANDREW: And then the reader's like, "Well, the Orishas love you, hugs and kisses, see you later," and they're like, "What do you mean?" T-D: Wow. ANDREW: "What do you mean?" Right? "What do you mean?" T-D: Right. That's problematic too, obviously. ANDREW: Right? T-D: Because those Odos, those divination pattern, which we call Odu, have inherent messages in them. ANDREW: Sure. T-D: And some of them admonish the diviner to speak the more -- I don't want to say negative, but negative side of the pattern, and to give warnings, and --it's a message -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: That they're kind of -- As a priest, you know, we have Ita, which are a number of life divinations, but it's the same concept as a road map. One may be temporary while the other may be permanent ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: But it's still a road map for you to follow for your life, and so even if it's just dealing with a specific point in time and a specific situation, I think, you know, obviously, a lot of people are performing readings [sigh] who just are not conscientious ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: About the work that they're doing. ANDREW: Right. T-D: It's not just about marking an ebbó or an offering or a sacrifice that you can then charge the person for you to perform. You're really -- It's a connection, right? Between the Ori of the person who's come to receive the reading and the diviner connecting with Elegua, and giving them this message that they require, and so I think that is really important in terms of fully exploring and investigating the message of the Odu that's fallen, and taking the time with someone who is not in the religion. You know? When someone comes for a first reading, it's really important to explain to them what that's going to involve, and what it means, and what to expect, on top of what the actual message is going to be. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: Because as we know, it's easier to lose the blessings that are being foretold than it is to convert negativity that's being expected into blessings. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: You know, so, it's a highly responsible task to perform a reading for someone, whether it's a Diloggún reading or a spiritual reading. It's a highly responsible task and the person who's performing that reading needs to take it seriously and they need to convey that level of seriousness and sacredness to the person who's coming to receive the reading. It's not a game or a parlor trick. It's a connection with ... to the divine. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Yeah. And it's also not ... although it has the appearance of fortunetelling sometimes ... T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Like, "hey, watch for this thing ..." T-D: Right. [nodding] ANDREW: It's also not fortunetelling, right? T-D: And the diviner needs to make that clear, also. You know, that this is not fortunetelling. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. And it's also ... The advice about what you don't do is SO important and ... T-D: It really is. ANDREW: Or maybe more important than what you do ... I mean … They're both important, right? T-D: Right. ANDREW: And this notion of the way in which taboos are handed out, right? T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: "Don't do this thing, don't do that thing." I think is something that is also very complicated for people sometimes. T-D: It is. ANDREW: Especially because sometimes those connections are super obvious, right? T-D: Right. ANDREW: Like, you came in a sign that says your head's not very clear, don't drink. Right? T-D: Right. ANDREW: Eh, it's easy to understand, right? T-D: Right. ANDREW: But some of the other connections are less clear, right? T-D: Right. ANDREW: And ... and yet ... they still need to be abided with, and that's sort of ... T-D: Right. And so maybe the diviner could help that person ... you know, kind of give them some insights into it. You may not hit on the exact thing, that that taboo or prohibition pertains to for that person, but it gets them thinking along those lines. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: You know. Don't eat this thing. You know, maybe that thing would make you sick, or maybe when you go to have it, you're going to be at someone's house and it's not going to be well-prepared ... ANDREW: Right. T-D: Or maybe you'll need to make that as an offering one day and it'll save you so it's more of a medicine. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: You've got to kind of open the way that person perceives that prohibition. So that they can think about it differently than just, "I can't have that thing." ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: You know. ANDREW: People don't like to be told they can't have things. T-D: Right. None of us like that, you know? [laughs] ANDREW: So, every time you sit on the mat, be like, "Please don't take away something I like." T-D: Don't take away. Any time you receive another Orisha with any ties, like "oh, don't tell me I can't have this thing." ANDREW: Exactly. T-D: But you know that it's important to observe those taboos because you've chosen this path as your life path ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: But someone who's just going to receive a reading may not understand that, you know, for the next 30 days, or depending on, you know, how you were taught, the next however long amount of time, while this Odu, while the energy of this divination pattern is around you, you need to, you know, refrain from doing this thing or that thing or engaging in this or that or eating this or that. ANDREW: Yeah. For sure. So, I'm going to switch topics a little bit here ... T-D: Okay. ANDREW: Kind of, kind of but not ... T-D: Uh oh! [laughs] ANDREW: So, we've been talking about aché, right? T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, one of the things that I've found fascinating was watching the way in which you described your process around making these new baths that you're offering. Right? T-D: Okay. Yes. ANDREW: You know? And, I mean, can you talk about it, because I think that the commitments to putting your energy into it, and the hands-on-ness of it, I think is fascinating to me, and so I'd love you to share some of that for people to understand. T-D: Oh my goodness. So, I think it's -- There's obviously a little -- This is an unorthodox type of bath, the first bath that I'm offering as an Ochún bath. It's unorthodox in the sense that most people here in the States who practice the religion perceive Orisha herbs as just the herbs we use to consecrate heads and consecrate Orisha. And they're always fresh herbs that we work with. And the herbs that we use for spiritual baths -- Obviously people in Florida and other places, they may use fresh herbs. But in the Afro-Cuban practice, there are some herbs that get boiled. Plenty of herbs are dried, it's fairly common. It's very common for Paleros to work with dry herbs. And so, I'm using -- I'm making a dried herbal product. I'm growing most of the herbs myself. I'm washing them and drying them and confecting the baths with them. And because I'm a one woman show and I'm just starting to do this, I'm labeling all of my tea tins myself by hand, and some of the labels I kind of make, they're not really labels, I wanted it to look a certain way, and I wanted it to have kind of a vintage apothecary look, and I wanted there to be some texture. So I ended up doing a lot more kind of physical hands on -- ANDREW: Cause-- T-D: Crafting, then I had originally thought. ANDREW: You've skipped over a little bit, though, right? T-D: I skipped over a lot! ANDREW: You're growing the herbs -- T-D: [laughing] Yes. ANDREW: And then you're picking them -- T-D: Right. ANDREW: And then you're hand washing them all, right? T-D: Yes, and I'm drying them. ANDREW: And then you're hand drying them -- T-D: Right. ANDREW: So that they can them be properly dried -- T-D: Right. ANDREW: And cured. T-D: Right. Cause I want them to be properly dried and cured. ANDREW: And not like moldy and disgusting, right? T-D: Right. I didn't want them to be moldy or disgusting, and yes, I live in southern California where it's pretty dry, so it's not like I have a big issue with anything getting moldy or disgusting. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: And I have some nice drying racks that I hang that are like the ones that people might use for tea or other herbs. And in terms of the confection of the baths, it's kind of an unorthodox thing cause there's a lot of praying and singing and not the same exact kind of ora that would go on to make omearo, but some of that, you know, a good little bit of that. There's not divining going on but there was some divining going on in terms of what my ingredients would be for the bath -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And there was consulting with my own elders about that. So -- And I do have some really good teachers. As I've mentioned, my mother in law, my madrina, I also work with my Olua here in Los Angeles who is actually a sustainable gardening specialist, and my other Olua teacher, Luis Marín who lives in Maryland who is an expert herbalist, and he practices achéche, traditional Yoruba Ifa but he's initiated to Elegua in the Lucumí system. So I do have some really knowledgeable teachers to confer with. But in terms of the actual process of it, yes, I'm [laughing] -- you know, I'm making it the way that I would make a bath for someone who came to me to make a bath for them. So, and I sing when I work. I sing when I do a limpieza or, you know, spiritually clean the house. And this is an Ochún bath, so I sing Ochún songs and I sing Osayin songs. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. And -- T-D: And I open my work, I actually stand in front of my shrine and I ring my Ochún bell and I recite oríkì and I pray to her before I start my work, and then when I'm finished making the batch of the bath, and I do small batches, when I'm finished I go back and I pray to her and I sing, and I recite oríkì and prayer and once it's done I light a candle and I sing some more -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And I leave it there at the foot of my Ochún. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: And sometimes I put my Ochún sopera on top of it! [laughs] ANDREW: [laughs] Just put a little extra of that energy in there! T-D: Yes! ANDREW: Fire it up a little further? T-D: I do. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: I do, and so, and I want to say, you know, this concept of kind of making magical things, you know, I feel, obviously that the power is inherent in the herbs that I'm working with and inherent in the Orishas and I just have an unwavering faith in that. ANDREW: Mmm. T-D: So, and I have an unwavering faith in my elders and in my lineage and that they put Ochún in my head and they did it properly and they've taught me, and I've conferred with them and that I'm doing this properly, and I do it with a lot of love, honestly. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: A lot of love, and heart, and I say a lot of prayers for -- I'm so emotional, you have to forgive me -- for the people who would use this bath, you know, I pray for them, that they should have good health and that they should have happiness and love in their lives and that they should love themselves and accept themselves, and that they should have prosperity and that goodness should flow to them and to their lives. And so I do a lot of that because that's what I know and that's what I've seen when rituals are performed for me, people pray for me, people pray for my children, and so I pray for the benefit of anyone who would touch anything that I put my hands on, you know. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. Yeah. And I think that, to me, there's that, what I hear and see and what you're talking about is this sort of both the depth of experience, the history of the tradition, right? T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And that sort of connection to aché and to lineage, right? And I think that, you know, it's -- it goes even beyond just some of those things, right, because it's also your aché, right? T-D: Right. ANDREW: Like you can accomplish these things partly because it's in you from your destiny to do so as well, right? T-D: Right. ANDREW: Like not everybody is meant to be an Ochunista or, you know, an herbalist, or whatever, right? T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: We all have different graces and strengths, and I think that that capacity and attention is so wonderful, right? And, you know, how many, if you count the growing of the plants, how long is it from start to finish before one of these comes out in a tin, right? It's a long time. T-D: It's a long time, it is. And I think that from the beginning, my godmother did always kind of try to motivate me to learn about the plants -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And I said, "oh, it's just too much, it's overwhelming, ah," you know, I like to make the baths, I'll use this, what I know, I'll use that ... But as, over time, you know, little by little, you look, and you have more and more plants, and then I married a guy who was a Palero, so there were more and more plants. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: So you just learn, you don't take it all in one big bite, or one big gulp. ANDREW: Right. T-D: There's no way you can do it! And I don't know the Oju this is associated with, it's “bit by bit we eat the head of the rat,” you know ... ANDREW: Right. T-D: It's this idea, the head of the rat has very little sharp bones in it. And so if you're gonna eat that meat, which is a delicacy, right, for our ancestors, our spiritual ancestors, you have to eat it very very carefully. And so, it's a very slow and kind of careful process. And I don't perceive myself as being particularly knowledgeable. I perceive myself honestly as a rank and file Olorisha and I've been very fortunate and blessed to have some really knowledgeable elders who have shared with me and I will spend the rest of my life learning more about herbs and growing herbs and continuing to take classes, continuing to ask questions of other people older than me and younger than me. And maybe one day, you know, 30 years from now, I'll be an Oceanista ... ANDREW: Uh huh. T-D: But, you know, this project, if you will, is just an incredible, an extraordinary opportunity for me, and I love it, and [shrugs], that's all I can say, I love it, and I wish I had begun with more gusto 20 years ago and not felt ... not allowed it to make me feel so overwhelmed. And I also find it interesting that I've received lots of comments and feedback, you know, from elders who are espiritistas, who say "Oh, al fin tu estás haciendo trabajo de tu muerta principal," like, you know, "finally you're doing this work that, you know, that your primary muerta's been trying to get you to do for years and years." And, you know, I have been told of her, and I knew of her, but I didn't really understand that she was an herbalist. I saw her working over a pot, you know, a caldero, kind of bent over, sitting down, and her hands are moving. You know? And I would say that. And my madrino was like, "What did you think she was doing?" [laughs] "What did you think she was working on over that pot?" ANDREW: [laughing] Yeah. T-D: You know, she was working with barks, and bottles, and ojas, and herbs, and leaves, and stuff, you know. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: But it's a process and I think it comes to us when we're ready. When we're ready for it and open to it. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: And sometimes it has come to us little by little over time and we didn't even realize it and then we looked up and said, "Wow! Where did all these doggone plants come from?" ANDREW: Exactly, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think that -- I think that that idea of -- Back to this question about guides and spirits that walk with us, you know? T-D: Yes! ANDREW: I mean, I think that figuring out how to live with that, and work with them, I think is so important, you know? T-D: It's essential but it is so hard for some of us. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: And I'm gonna tell you this, my background, I'm an African American, my family is from New Orleans, so saints and Catholicism and all that was not foreign to me, but many African American people or others who have or Anglo Americans or others who come from a Protestant background, it seems very Catholic to them, and not only that, but it seems very Christian to those who may be looking for something outside of Christianity. And so, until people dig a little bit deeper and really understand about Espiritismo and that they're different and also different ways of working with these spirits, that's when you kind of get that depth or get that connection that, you know, this is something that's really important to me, and when you are surrounded by, or find yourself in the company of people who are really developed spiritually, and how it helps their lives and how it can help your life ... ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: That's when you start to see the importance of that. And when you -- or the importance just of being able to distinguish between your own fears, or your own ego, and messages that are being sent to you from your guides, you know -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: Is hard. And I can say, I lost my husband almost six years ago to cancer. I have struggled financially with two young children, living in a city where the schools were great when I was a child but aren't so great now and have to pay tuition for my kids and stuff like that, and make choices that I didn't think I'd have to make because I didn't think I'd be alone. You know, there's a big difference between two incomes and one income. ANDREW: Yes. T-D: And I will give the credit 100 percent to my muertos, my spirit guides, my protectors, and my ancestors that even gave me the idea to sell these baths or make them available to the public, something that I love to do -- ANDREW: Sure. T-D: And that I have been doing for years, and it never occurred to me, and I have been told, Andrew, so many times, you know, "You're going to have a business, you're going to do well at a business one day." Well, I'm not there doing well yet, you know, I'm just starting, but my parents were small business owners -- ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: And I just never -- and we had a very comfortable life, but I just -- the only thing I was really good at was food things, and food businesses are very expensive and rigorous and require a tremendous amount of capital -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And I just couldn't see that. And so when this idea came to me -- This idea didn't come to me! The idea was given to me. It was a blessing that was given to me. And that just blows me away. ANDREW: Well, you know, from a certain perspective, right? T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: So, I started working as a card reader, 15, almost 16 years ago. T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: You know, I quit my job in advertising and started ... T-D: Wow! ANDREW: Reading cards for a living, right? T-D: Okay. ANDREW: And I decided that I wanted to make a product. T-D: Mmmhmm, mmmhmm. ANDREW: And so I started making herbal baths. And this line of baths that I make now. T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, you know, I got them in some stores around town, and I did some things with it, and in some ways, that starting point is the starting point of the whole store I have now, where I have a full store now, right? T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: So, you know, and it comes from that listening in, and leaning in, and being like, "All right, spirits, I can do these things. Oh yeah, I can work on that," and, you know... T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: What comes from that listening, in my experience, especially if we're faithful to it, right? Over time-- T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: Is everything, everything comes from there, right? T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And I think about, when I show up at the shop, or tonight's Saturday and we're recording and I'm gonna lock up later and go home -- T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: I always lock up everything and sit here and check in with all my guides and my spirits and I thank them for this, and I thank the Orishas when I pray to them every day, because all of this comes from their guidance and their influence, and my work, but -- T-D: And it's a blessing. It's a degree of freedom for your family. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And when I was a young person, a teenager, I just saw the work, you know, my parents did. And they had multiple small business endeavors, and they were successful, but there was a lot of work. ANDREW: Sure. T-D: But working for yourself, there's just a degree of freedom, a space for personal expression and creativity, independence -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: That you'll never find in corporate America or corporate Canada or in the West, you know ... ANDREW: Corporate anything, right? T-D: Anywhere, you're just not gonna find that. ANDREW: It's just corporate Earth now. Isn't that the deal? T-D: Right. That's what it is, right, globalization. But I just, if I could develop this in time, you know, in a few years or whatever, into something that I could do full time and have a small shop and grow some herbs on the roof, or in the back, or whatever, that is my ultimate goal, and to be able to kind of be there for my kids, and they can come into the shop and go in the back and do their homework and help me carry stuff or whatever ... ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: That's a beautiful way of life, because it allows you to engage in something that you value and something that you can share with the community, that you can share with others, and it allows you to continue to grow -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: As a priest, and to grow in your spiritual practice and your knowledge and ultimately, you'll be able to pass that on to other people as well. So yes, definitely, you know, you're someone who I see as a shining example, you know, honestly. ANDREW: Well. Thank you. Well. So, let's see if people want to go and check out your stuff, they should know where to find you. T-D: Oh, yes! ANDREW: Where are you hiding out on the web there, T-D? T-D: So, I have a website, it's https://www.spiritualbathtea.com, and you can order the bath there. It's an Ochún bath for love and prosperity. It has a lot of beautiful things in it. And Andrew, I'll send you one, I know that you're a master bath maker but I'm gonna send you my bath, because it's just like wine, maybe you have your vineyard and I have my vineyard ... ANDREW: Oh yeah, for sure. T-D: You know, but we can enjoy each other's products of one another's labors ... ANDREW: Absolutely. T-D: And I'll definitely be sending you a bath. ANDREW: Super. I can't wait! T-D: But yes, it's got at least five of Ochún's herbs in it, it has more, and it's got some other really nice elements in it that ... it's got three different types of sandalwood in it, it smells really lovely, and it's a really beautiful bath and I've received a lot of really positive feedback about the bath from users, and I love making it and I put a lot of love and care into it. And it definitely gives a new meaning, and you know, the word art, or the word crafts, these have many different meanings, and what were the meanings, the original meanings, of, you know, these things. ANDREW: Well, you know what, the really funny thing is, you're kind of actually doing what the millennials are doing. T-D: I am? ANDREW: You are, cause I mean, what I see a lot in sort of the millennial culture, things that people see about that, is this return to hand crafted, to small batch, to stuff made with love, right? T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: So you see these sort of various things, food wise, and you know, clothing wise and otherwise ... T-D: Right. ANDREW: That, they're not corporate, they're not mass-produced. T-D: Right. ANDREW: They come from people who have learned how to, you know, hand do things -- T-D: Right. ANDREW: In traditional ways or new ways. T-D: And this will never be mass-produced, ever. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: It's just not that -- that's not my concept, it's not that kind of thing. So if I wake up tomorrow and you know, Amara la Negra or Beyoncé put me on their, you know, social media, there'll just be a back log, but the order will get filled, but you know, I might buy a couple of those labeling machines, to label my tins, [laughing] or you know, like I said, my dream is to be able to afford to buy 10,000 from China of those fancy tea tins that are already embossed and printed, but the bath is, it's always going to be something that is beautiful, that I'm going to put as much beauty and love and care into as I possibly can, and that my own hands have touched, because that's it, you know, that's where the magic is -- ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: It's multi-- it's multifaceted, right? It's got these different components. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And so, you've got your spiritual license, your ritual license, your learning competencies, but it's also what you put into that thing, you know? ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: There are lots of people who are well-trained, who are very knowledgeable, and who are duly ordained, who just throw some shit together. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: All day long. And I will never ever do that. Cause that's got a lot to do with personal integrity and accountability to Orisha, too! Why -- I mean, I'm going to try to make the most beautiful thing that I can if it has Ochún's name on it. And when I do my Obatala bath, it's gonna be the most incredible excellent thing that I could ever imagine. ANDREW: Yeah. Because I love Obatala, and he loves me, because he gave me a wonderful husband. You know, I just am always going to do the very best that I can. ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And to try to make something, and plus we want to please people, right? We want people to feel that their money is well spent and that their effort in acquiring the thing is well spent. ANDREW: Right. T-D: And is special to them. ANDREW: Yeah. And I know for myself, whenever I'm in a position to represent the religion in one way or another, I feel a lot of pressure. T-D: Absolutely! ANDREW: Right? To get it right. T-D: Absolutely! ANDREW: I made an Orisha tarot deck, which is coming out in the fall through a major publisher, right? T-D: Oh, wow! Okay. ANDREW: And-- through Llewellyn, it'll be out in September. T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And, it took me a long time to make it because I constantly felt this pressure, from me, right? T-D: Yeah, it's from you, it's just like any overachiever ... ANDREW: Right? T-D: You're not competing with other kids, you're competing with yourself. [laughing] ANDREW: There's nobody else, it's just me and the art, or you and the bath, or whatever. T-D: Right! ANDREW: Yeah, no, it's fantastic. T-D: That's definitely what it is. I definitely put my best into it. And I hope that that shines through and that people will see that and just to add one more thing, you know, it's really important, this idea that we have, of that license [sighs]. I just can't really say enough about that, I kind of get emotional about it. You can't create an Orisha bath if you don't have Orishas. ANDREW: Mmm. T-D: You know? And they're certain herbs that belong to Orishas, and all the herbs belong to Osane, but if you don't have the ritual license to work with those entities, how are you creating a bath? How are you creating a ritual? You can certainly do a spiritual bath, you know, working with your spirit guides, and working with your muertos, your protectors and guides, but working with Orisha requires Orisha. Requires consecrated Orisha. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: So. ANDREW: For sure. T-D: Don't just throw some oranges and some -- ANDREW: [laughing] Cinnamon -- T-D: Yellow flowers and some honey and cinnamon in the bathtub and say that you're doing a bath with Ochún cause Ochún is not there in that bath with you. ANDREW: Yeah. T-D: [laughing] Not to be snarky! ANDREW: No, I think, I think it's important conversations, right? And I think that one of the reasons why it's my intention to have you and David Sosa and, you know, other traditional practitioners on, is I think that it's really important to have a dialogue about what tradition actually has to offer, right? And I think that it's a thing that's hard to understand, it's a thing that is not obvious in sort of the more modern world ... T-D: Right. ANDREW: And it's not obvious if you didn't grow up in a magical tradition or in a magical, you know, I mean, I had the great fortune to not be raised with any religion ... T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And I discovered Western mystery tradition stuff, and Western esotericism when I was like, 11 and 12, right. T-D: Mmmhmm, Mmmhmm. ANDREW: So I grew up self-educating myself in a magical approach to the world. T-D: Mmmhmm. ANDREW: And I think that's what has allowed me to step into it and into the Orisha tradition so well, is that the only traditions I've ever known have been magical. And spiritual in this way. And -- T-D: Yeah. ANDREW: And were also initiatory, right? T-D: Mmmhmm, mmmhmm. ANDREW: Right? You know? They're all pieces that I understood from the beginning, kind of coming into this, right? T-D: Right. ANDREW: I think it's important. T-D: And, it's very important. It's foreign to a lot of people, and, you know, it's important to say, you know, Orisha worship is not a self-initiatory system, it's a communal system, that has an intact priesthood, it has existed for many generations, for thousands of years if you go all the way back -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: And it's an ancient religious system that has an orthodoxy and a priesthood and a specific path that one follows and that's very important. And that you cannot, even though the world changes, things change, things evolve, you can't fit Orisha into your own mold or -- ANDREW: Mmmhmm. T-D: Or mold Orisha to fit your lifestyle, in that type of way. It's not that type -- it's a religion, it's a structured religious system. ANDREW: For sure. All right. Well now we've given everybody something to think about! T-D: Yes. ANDREW: Thank you for making time -- T-D: Thank you! Thank you so much for having me, I really appreciate it, it was very kind of you and I appreciate your time. ANDREW: Oh, it's my pleasure, thanks. T-D: Thanks.
Orisha Obatala Matriarchal Three --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/antiwackpodcast/support
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New World Witchery - The Search for American Traditional Witchcraft
Summary: EDIT: We’ve had a very informative and respectful email from a listener that pointed out a few errors in my retelling of the Haitian tale about Obatala, Yemoja, and Shango. I would like to note that Yemoja is not historically associated with Haitian spiritual practices, and that the selections from Teish’s book are not … Continue reading "Episode 93 – Bright Mothers"
ABR-ACROI BEYO & RADIORISHAS PRESENTA: LOS PODCATS DE RADIORISHAS UNA NARRACION DE LOS YA CONOCIDOS PATAKI DE LA REGLA DE OCHA E IFA, AYUDAN A PODER ENTENDER, COMPRENDER Y DE HECHO AMPLIAR UN REGISTRO, ASI UN RELIGIOSO EN ESTERA PODRA APOYARSE MUCHO MAS DE ESTOS PATAKI ASHE
QueenMother4real Media continues The Journey of Chief Baba Oni Sango Adefunmi the Royal Sango to the King. Call 347-989-0180 to hear her story and ask questions. Chief Baba Oni Sango Adefunmi the Royal Sango to the King shares her experiences living in Yorubaland, America. Joining Chief Iya Baba Oni Sango sometimes is the Chief Omolade the eldest Obatala in America. As a gift to Chief Baba Oni Sango Adefunmi we are asking all of our listening family to send a donation to rebuild the public Orisa (African Gods) Temple that originated in NYC in the 1960's and in the 1970's.Chief Iya Baba Oni Sango asks everyone to please send all donations to: https://www.gofundme.com/c8eatnyg Co-hosting with Her excellency is HE Igberohinjade Oludoye Sared Activist Senior Priestess, Writer and Hostess of Youtube Videos about Nature, Spirituality and Oyotunji Villiage in Shelton, SC. Also Co-hosting is Queen Olori OsunEde Olusegun author of "Secrets That Little Girls Hide," Activist for child sexual abuse prevention and Founder of Ayo's Healing House a safe place for women and children traumatized by sexual abuse.QueenMother4real IyaAwofalola Darlene Dawson MS MSED EdS founder of QueenMother4real Media and Co-Founder of Ifa House of Worship formerly Yoruba House of Worship is the engineer and co-host as well.
QueenMother4real Media continues the Journey of Chief Baba Oni Sango Adefunmi the Royal Sango to the King. Call 347-989-0180 to hear her story and ask questions. Chief Baba Oni Sango Adefunmi the Royal Sango to the King shares her experiences of living in Yorubaland in America. Joining Chief Iya Baba Oni Sango is the Chief Omolade the eldest Obatala in America. As a gift to Chief Baba Oni Sango Adefunmi we are asking all of our listening family to send a donation to rebuild the public Orisa (African Gods)Temple that was originated in NYC in 1970's. All donation can be sent to https://www.gofundme.com/c8eatnyg Co-hosting with Her excellency is HE Igberohinjade Oludoye Sared Activist, Senior Priestess, Writer and Hostess of Youtube Videos about Nature, Spirituality and Oyotunji Villiage in Shelton, SC. Also Co-hosting is Olori OsunEde Olusegun, author of "Secrets That Little Girls Hide," Activist for child sexual abuse prevention and Founder of Ayo's Healing House a safe place for women and children traumatized by sexual abuse. QueenMother4real IyaAwofalola Darlene Dawson, MS, MSED, EdS founder of QueenMother4real Media and Co-Founder of Ifa House of Worship formerly Yoruba House of Worship is the engineer and co-host as well.
QueenMother4real Media continues the Journey of Chief Baba Oni Sango Adefunmi the Royal Sango to the King. Call 347-989-0180 to hear her story and ask questions. Chief Baba Oni Sango Adefunmi the Royal Sango to the King shares her experiences of living in Yorubaland in America. Joining Chief Iya Baba Oni Sango is the Chief Omolade the eldest Obatala in America. As a gift to Chief Baba Oni Sango Adefunmi we are asking all of our listening family to send a donation to rebuild the public Orisa Temple that was originated in NYC in 1970's. All donations please send to https://www.gofundme.com/c8eatnyg Thank you Co-hosting with Her excellency is HE Igberohinjade Oludoye Sared Activist, Senior Priestess, Writer and Hostess of Youtube Videos about Nature, Spirituality and Oyotunji Villiage in Shelton, SC. Also Co-hosting is Olori OsunEde Olusegun, author of "Secrets That Little Girls Hide," Activist for child sexual abuse prevention and Founder of Ayo's Healing House a safe place for women and children traumatized by sexual abuse. QueenMother4real IyaAwofalola Darlene Dawson, MS, MSED, EdS founder of QueenMother4real Media and Co-Founder of Ifa House of Worship formerly Yoruba House of Worship is the engineer and co-hosting as well.
ABR-ACROI BEYO & RADIORISHAS PRESENTA: LOS PODCATS DE RADIORISHAS UNA NARRACION DE LOS YA CONOCIDOS PATAKI DE LA REGLA DE OCHA E IFA, AYUDAN A PODER ENTENDER, COMPRENDER Y DE HECHO AMPLIAR UN REGISTRO, ASI UN RELIGIOSO EN ESTERA PODRA APOYARSE MUCHO MAS DE ESTOS PATAKI
"There is a African American spiritual that says,"It's time to get ready to put on the long white robe."In Yoruba culture,we are taught that the white robe is your character,your Iwa. .When you wear white,you must be very careful of what you do.Obatala is the keeper of the white robe. He represents the universal princiiple of knowledge,patience, wisdom,humility,service and wealth."The white robe also makes you conscious of your environment and how you behave at all times.If you make a wrong move in the wrong direction, you will be seen.If you move carelessly or hasstily, you run the risk of soiling your white robe.Black men are being called upopn not to allow the ways of the world to continue to soil your white robe" - Iyanla Vanzant Long known as the country's leading authority on spirituality and empowerment for Black women, Iyanla Vanzant now offers a message of faith, self-knowledge, and courage for Black men in the struggles, crises, and victories we face in today's society. Teaching Black men to recognize and tap the energy of our own spirits. Vanzant uses a brilliant and transforming blend of ancient African spirituallity, practical self-help advice, and comtemporary faith to help Black men and the women who love them, nurture the strength and power that are our birthright." "Sister Iyanla has given us a first: A Sister's visionary prescription for the transformation of her Brothers. This prescription addresses the unique and special healing of black men, but it speaks to he health of all men" Dr. NA'IM AKBAR, Author of Visions of the Black, and The Psychology of Slavery "Ms Vanzant is the first to offer a concrete path and process to spiritual, political, and economic power in a tradition that is familiar to us.Thank you my sister,daughter,friend." Rev. Jesse Jackson,President, National Rainbow Coalition
"There is a African American spiritual that says,"It's time to get ready to put on the long white robe."In Yoruba culture,we are taught that the white robe is your character,your Iwa. .When you wear white,you must be very careful of what you do.Obatala is the keeper of the white robe. He represents the universal princiiple of knowledge,patience, wisdom,humility,service and wealth."The white robe also makes you conscious of your environment and how you behave at all times.If you make a wrong move in the wrong direction, you will be seen.If you move carelessly or hasstily, you run the risk of soiling your white robe.Black men are being called upopn not to allow the ways of the world to continue to soil your white robe" - Iyanla Vanzant Long known as the country's leading authority on spirituality and empowerment for Black women, Iyanla Vanzant now offers a message of faith, self-knowledge, and courage for Black men in the struggles, crises, and victories we face in today's society. Teaching Black men to recognize and tap the energy of our own spirits. Vanzant uses a brilliant and transforming blend of ancient African spirituallity, practical self-help advice, and comtemporary faith to help Black men and the women who love them, nurture the strength and power that are our birthright." "Sister Iyanla has given us a first: A Sister's visionary prescription for the transformation of her Brothers. This prescription addresses the unique and special healing of black men, but it speaks to he health of all men" Dr. NA'IM AKBAR, Author of Visions of the Black, and The Psychology of Slavery "Ms Vanzant is the first to offer a concrete path and process to spiritual, political, and economic power in a tradition that is familiar to us.Thank you my sister,daughter,friend." Rev. Jesse Jackson,President, National Rainbow Coalition
"There is a African American spiritual that says,"It's time to get ready to put on the long white robe."In Yoruba culture,we are taught that the white robe is your character,your Iwa. .When you wear white,you must be very careful of what you do.Obatala is the keeper of the white robe. He represents the universal princiiple of knowledge,patience, wisdom,humility,service and wealth."The white robe also makes you conscious of your environment and how you behave at all times.If you make a wrong move in the wrong direction, you will be seen.If you move carelessly or hasstily, you run the risk of soiling your white robe.Black men are being called upopn not to allow the ways of the world to continue to soil your white robe" - Iyanla Vanzant Long known as the country's leading authority on spirituality and empowerment for Black women, Iyanla Vanzant now offers a message of faith, self-knowledge, and courage for Black men in the struggles, crises, and victories we face in today's society. Teaching Black men to recognize and tap the energy of our own spirits. Vanzant uses a brilliant and transforming blend of ancient African spirituallity, practical self-help advice, and comtemporary faith to help Black men and the women who love them, nurture the strength and power that are our birthright." "Sister Iyanla has given us a first: A Sister's visionary prescription for the transformation of her Brothers. This prescription addresses the unique and special healing of black men, but it speaks to he health of all men" Dr. NA'IM AKBAR, Author of Visions of the Black, and The Psychology of Slavery "Ms Vanzant is the first to offer a concrete path and process to spiritual, political, and economic power in a tradition that is familiar to us.Thank you my sister,daughter,friend." Rev. Jesse Jackson,President, National Rainbow Coalition
"There is a African American spiritual that says,"It's time to get ready to put on the long white robe."In Yoruba culture,we are taught that the white robe is your character,your Iwa. .When you wear white,you must be very careful of what you do.Obatala is the keeper of the white robe. He represents the universal princiiple of knowledge,patience, wisdom,humility,service and wealth."The white robe also makes you conscious of your environment and how you behave at all times.If you make a wrong move in the wrong direction, you will be seen.If you move carelessly or hasstily, you run the risk of soiling your white robe.Black men are being called upopn not to allow the ways of the world to continue to soil your white robe" - Iyanla Vanzant Long known as the country's leading authority on spirituality and empowerment for Black women, Iyanla Vanzant now offers a message of faith, self-knowledge, and courage for Black men in the struggles, crises, and victories we face in today's society. Teaching Black men to recognize and tap the energy of our own spirits. Vanzant uses a brilliant and transforming blend of ancient African spirituallity, practical self-help advice, and comtemporary faith to help Black men and the women who love them, nurture the strength and power that are our birthright." "Sister Iyanla has given us a first: A Sister's visionary prescription for the transformation of her Brothers. This prescription addresses the unique and special healing of black men, but it speaks to he health of all men" Dr. NA'IM AKBAR, Author of Visions of the Black, and The Psychology of Slavery "Ms Vanzant is the first to offer a concrete path and process to spiritual, political, and economic power in a tradition that is familiar to us.Thank you my sister,daughter,friend." Rev. Jesse Jackson,President, National Rainbow Coalition
"There is a African American spiritual that says,"It's time to get ready to put on the long white robe."In Yoruba culture,we are taught that the white robe is your character,your Iwa. .When you wear white,you must be very careful of what you do.Obatala is the keeper of the white robe. He represents the universal princiiple of knowledge,patience, wisdom,humility,service and wealth."The white robe also makes you conscious of your environment and how you behave at all times.If you make a wrong move in the wrong direction, you will be seen.If you move carelessly or hasstily, you run the risk of soiling your white robe.Black men are being called upopn not to allow the ways of the world to continue to soil your white robe" - Iyanla Vanzant Long known as the country's leading authority on spirituality and empowerment for Black women, Iyanla Vanzant now offers a message of faith, self-knowledge, and courage for Black men in the struggles, crises, and victories we face in today's society. Teaching Black men to recognize and tap the energy of our own spirits. Vanzant uses a brilliant and transforming blend of ancient African spirituallity, practical self-help advice, and comtemporary faith to help Black men and the women who love them, nurture the strength and power that are our birthright." "Sister Iyanla has given us a first: A Sister's visionary prescription for the transformation of her Brothers. This prescription addresses the unique and special healing of black men, but it speaks to he health of all men" Dr. NA'IM AKBAR, Author of Visions of the Black, and The Psychology of Slavery "Ms Vanzant is the first to offer a concrete path and process to spiritual, political, and economic power in a tradition that is familiar to us.Thank you my sister,daughter,friend." Rev. Jesse Jackson,President, National Rainbow Coali
"There is a African American spiritual that says,"It's time to get ready to put on the long white robe."In Yoruba culture,we are taught that the white robe is your character,your Iwa. .When you wear white,you must be very careful of what you do.Obatala is the keeper of the white robe. He represents the universal princiiple of knowledge,patience, wisdom,humility,service and wealth."The white robe also makes you conscious of your environment and how you behave at all times.If you make a wrong move in the wrong direction, you will be seen.If you move carelessly or hasstily, you run the risk of soiling your white robe.Black men are being called upopn not to allow the ways of the world to continue to soil your white robe" - Iyanla Vanzant Long known as the country's leading authority on spirituality and empowerment for Black women, Iyanla Vanzant now offers a message of faith, self-knowledge, and courage for Black men in the struggles, crises, and victories we face in today's society. Teaching Black men to recognize and tap the energy of our own spirits. Vanzant uses a brilliant and transforming blend of ancient African spirituallity, practical self-help advice, and comtemporary faith to help Black men and the women who love them, nurture the strength and power that are our birthright." "Sister Iyanla has given us a first: A Sister's visionary prescription for the transformation of her Brothers. This prescription addresses the unique and special healing of black men, but it speaks to he health of all men" Dr. NA'IM AKBAR, Author of Visions of the Black, and The Psychology of Slavery "Ms Vanzant is the first to offer a concrete path and process to spiritual, political, and economic power in a tradition that is familiar to us.Thank you my sister,daughter,friend." Rev. Jesse Jackson,President, National Rainbow Coalition
IFA WEDNESDAYS: Listen & Call in at 347/215-8967 Featuring: Adeniyi Ajani Elebuibon from Osogbo, Nigeria * Ms. Osaremi Lanloke will be calling into Ifa Wednesdays to discuss the Conference on Community, Family & Marriage. • The House of the Divine Prince www.HouseoftheDivinePrince.com • Ojelola Ifasakin and Osebiile Lejuba Ifa • http://www,blogtalktalkradio.com/The-Divine-Prince • Listen & Call in at 347/215-8967
Today on the anniversary of MARTIN KING's killing we reflect on healing and survival via a variety of perspectives, beginning at 7 a.m. with a conversation with Ifa Priestess Oyafunmike Ogunlano who portrays the role of "Mona" and "Shola," in Haile Gerima's classic: Sankofa. Beginning her career on the theatrical stage, Ms.Ogunlano first graced the stages of Washington, D.C. as a proud member of the D.C. Black Repertory Company under the direction of Robert Hooks in such powerful productions as The Blacks, Imamu, Day of Absence, Changes and more. She has appeared in many stage productions including North Seventeenth Street, Homecookin' and Oursides as member of the renowned the Negro Ensemble Company. With the Nuyorican Poet's Café she performed in Shango de Ima, Julius Ceaser set in Africa and Obatala. She was a member of the Ebony Impromptu Theater Company, under the direction of the late Harry Poe and is also an accomplished African dancer who has danced with the dynamic Olatunji's Drums of Passion, Wo' se, and Mori Nimba to name a few. She will also speak about her Ifa temple project, "Palmaras." We then have an interview with poet and filmmaker, Adimu Madyun, about Hunter Poetry on WolfhawkJaguar. We open with Every Breath of Life. Tico Wells, director of Black Rep's production of John Henry Redwood's play, The Old Settler at Black Repertory Group Theatre Thursday-Sunday, through April 8, 2012, is up next. We speak about everything from PTSS and Dr. Joy DeGruy to Martin King and his legacy on the 44 anniversary of his assasination. We close with David Roach, director of Oakland International Film Festival, April 6-8, 2012 at the Oakland Museum, 10th and Oak. Visit http://www.facebook.com/oyafunmike and http://www.oiff.org/
Osaremi Ogunleye Lanloke, Founder, Host and Producer of Omo Oduduwa Radio Osaremi Ogunleye Lanloke was born in Oyotunji African Village in Sheldon, South Carolina to Chief Alagba Ogunleye and Ayoka Abiomi Lanloke. Her family taught her everything that they could about the customs and traditions of her ancestors. Osaremi is a priestess of Obatala, teacher, speaker, founder, producer and radio host of Omo Oduduwa Radio. By trade, Osaremi has extensive experience in cultural event planning, which includes the Awolawo Festival, Harvest Festival and Ancestral Egungun Conference. In 2002, Osaremi founded the Cultural exchange, an events planning ocmpany which produced the 2004 African Women's Conference, Market days at Lush Life cafe and World Aids day event for Kennesaw State University. Osaremi is currently hosting Omo Oduduwa Radio and produces both Ifa Code of Conduct and Goddess Awakening. She can be reached at osaremi@hotmail.com.
Tonight I am bringing forward the presence, vibration and understanding of the great Serpentine Fire, The Wisdom of the Ancestors, Obatala, Dambala, Kundalini and the Serpentine Deities and understanding. House of the Divine Prince Ty Emmecca Pan African Spiritualist, Practitioner, Author and Advisor. Sharing Love, Light, Ritual and Understanding from a Hoodoo World Spiritualist perspective of Divine Arts and Sciences, Math and Numerology, Light Work and Ritual Processes for spiritual and personal advancement and to gain understanding and application of a variety of all things spiritual, metaphysical, holistic and empowering.
Santero's "El Hijo de Obatala" CD Release Party, Friday, June 26 at the Shattuck Downlow in Berkeley is going to be the PLACE. I've got tickets to give away to the lucky blogger who writes something in the comment section that Santero said which intrigues, motivates or inspires. Joining Santero, whose spiritual name is "Crown of the Father," his dad, Obatala, on this special edition of "Wanda's Picks," is choreographer José Francisco Barroso, whose new work Obokóso debuts Saturday-Sunday, June 20-21 (2 & 8 PM Sat., 2 PM Sun.) at the Ethnic Dance Festival Week 3 at the Palace of Fine Arts in San Francisco. Both men share a tradition more ancient that the African's brief sojourn in this hemisphere, a place marked with tears. Whether it is music or dance, what Barroso and Santero share in these conversations is the African ability to transcend adversity and evidence that art truly is revolutionary and a most powerful, perhaps the most powerful spiritual tool. Obokóso tells the story of Shango, the fifth king of Oyo, Nigeria who was hanged but didn't suffer. Shango represents one's ability to conquer death and he resides in the sky, thunder and lightning aspects of his ashe or life force which is eternal. That term, "everlasting life" is Shango. Shango is "unmatched," Barroso says, "in his mastery of the dance and is the owner of the sacred bata drums." The bata's roar shakes the heavens...its echoes bouncing between the two realms: heaven and earth. Even with one's head buried in the sand, one cannot escape Shango's song. The two: Shango and Obokóso represent, Barroso says, "connection and interdependency between heaven and earth, drum and the dance, dance and the spirit, community and tradition." Santero said he wanted to be like Bob Marley, take Santeria (Ifa) to a level of acceptance and honor it deserves, similar to the way Bob lifted the Rastafarian religion or spiritual practices through his insightful lyrics and music to a place of worldwide respect and admirati
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