Podcasts about announcers

The Lucky Mojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour is a real, live call-in show where the general public gets a chance to ask about actual problems with love, career, and spiritual protection, and we recommend and fully describe hoodoo rootwork spells to address, ameliorate, and remediate their issues. We begin this show with a Tutorial on Incense in the Bible. You will learn a lot just by listening -- but if you sign up at the Lucky Mojo Forum and call in and your call is selected, you will get a free consultation from three of the finest workers in the field, cat yronwode, ConjureMan, and a special guest from AIRR, Dr. Jeremy Weiss. Sign up before the show to appear as a client! Post at the Lucky Mojo Forum at: https://forum.luckymojo.com/lmhrhour-free-readings-may-22-2022-incense-in-the-bible-t96860.html Then call in at 818-394-8535 and dial '1' to flag our Studio Board Operator that you want to be on the air! We select new client sign-ups first and then call-back sign-ups. Call in just before the show begins and listen via your phone. Message the Announcer or the Studio Board Operator ("Lucky Mojo Curio Company") in chat to let them know you're available.

Dave Mishkin joined Zach to discuss how his broadcasting style developed and if he's surprised that the Lightning are up 2-0 on the Panthers. 

Joey Zanaboni joins the show to talk about going viral, his unique broadcasting style, Chinese buffets, celebrity guest appearances, a dog that joined the team on the road, and so much more!

Kevin Harlan joins the Nation before Mavs vs Warriors Game 1 

1st Hour of the G-Bag Nation  Biggest stories of the day NBA Announcer Kevin Harlan joins the Nation GBAG of the DAY Crusty's Corner 

Chuck Cooperstein joined Zach to discuss if he's surprised that the Mavericks are in the Western Conference Finals and what Jason Kidd has brought to the team. 

Mavs play by play man Mark Followill chats with Greg Papa & John Lund ahead of the Western Conference Finals See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mavs play by play man Mark Followill chats with Greg Papa & John Lund ahead of the Western Conference Finals See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

info@podcastone.com9b83450d-b44d-4be9-807a-9ef03edce5ffTue, 17 May 2022 12:17:48 PDT00:14:52

Vegas Golden Knights radio play-by-play announcer Dan D'Uva joins Darren McFarland, Willy Daunic, and Derrick Mason to discuss the Knights firing Peter DeBoer yesterday, where they go from here, and their 2021-22 season.

Last week the Mega Millions announcer got the golden ball wrong. He said it was a 6 when it was 9. Luckily no one had a winning ticket either way. 

(00:00) Eric Reid is the TV Play-by-Play Announcer for the Miami Heat and joins Toucher & Rich to give a Heat perspective of the upcoming series… Until Fred justifiably hung up on him for acting like a giant prick. (15:16) The guys react to the previous segment with Eric Reid. (26:37) THE STACK   CONNECT WITH TOUCHER & RICH Twitter:@Toucherandrich|@fredtoucher|@KenGriffeyRules Instagram:@Toucherandrichofficial |@fredtoucher Twitch:twitch.tv/thesportshub 98.5 The Sports Hub:Website|Twitter|Facebook|Instagram

(00:00) Eric Reid is the TV Play-by-Play Announcer for the Miami Heat and joins Toucher & Rich to give a Heat perspective of the upcoming series… Until Fred justifiably hung up on him for acting like a giant prick. (15:16) The guys react to the previous segment with Eric Reid. (26:37) THE STACK   CONNECT WITH TOUCHER & RICH Twitter:@Toucherandrich|@fredtoucher|@KenGriffeyRules Instagram:@Toucherandrichofficial |@fredtoucher Twitch:twitch.tv/thesportshub 98.5 The Sports Hub:Website|Twitter|Facebook|Instagram

P-Mac, Ted, JP and Katie go DTA this week, and this episode you get a Katie rant for the ages.  

The Lucky Mojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour is a real, live call-in show where the general public gets a chance to ask about actual problems with love, career, and spiritual protection, and we recommend and fully describe hoodoo rootwork spells to address, ameliorate, and remediate their issues. We begin this show with a Tutorial on Using Cards for Magic and Manifestation. You will learn a lot just by listening -- but if you sign up at the Lucky Mojo Forum and call in and your call is selected, you will get a free consultation from three of the finest workers in the field, cat yronwode, ConjureMan, and a special guest, Stuart Palm. Sign up before the show to appear as a client! Post at the Lucky Mojo Forum at: https://forum.luckymojo.com/lmhrhour-free-readings-may-15-2022-using-cards-for-magic-and-manifestation-t96711.html Then call in at 818-394-8535 and dial '1' to flag our Studio Board Operator that you want to be on the air! We select new client sign-ups first and then call-back sign-ups. Call in just before the show begins and listen via your phone. Message the Announcer or the Studio Board Operator ("Lucky Mojo Curio Company") in chat to let them know you're available.

Episode #133 features Chef, Reuben Harley aka Big Rube and New York Yankees Public Address Announcer, Paul Olden, and an Extra Special Rant from Co-host, Jeff Reuben Harley is known to everyone as Big Rube.  We invited him on to discuss the product he created, Diamond Dirt Rub which is perfect for your grilled foods and can be found at baseballbbq.com https://baseballbbq.com/products/big-rubes-diamond-dirt-rub.  Big Rube's love of fashion and baseball helped turn a passion for throwback jerseys into the marketing plan that helped Mitchell & Ness cross over from a niche supplier of old jerseys to older men into a pop-culture phenomenon. Throughout his career, Big Rube has used cooking to fuel his passion, selling homemade cakes, operating a food truck, and cooking in pop-ups to satisfy hungry customers. Over many acts of a varied career, Big Rube has become an accomplished photographer, a fashion designer, and a sought-after chef.  We talk about so many things, including his mother being a seamstress for Muhammad Ali's wife, his grandfather driving Jackie Robinson, his 35-year friendship with Will Smith and Jazzy Jeff, and his decision not to appear in their music video as to not lose out on tip money, and the perfect Philly Cheesesteak which he makes and serves at Philadelphia's, Pitchers Pub.        Paul Olden has had an incredible and distinguished career in the world of sports, which has led him to his current position as public address announcer for the New York Yankees at Yankee Stadium.  The journey has included working as a radio and television play-by-play announcer for the Yankees, Tampa Bay Devil Rays, California Angels, Cleveland Indians, Philadelphia Eagles, UCLA Bruins, Los Angeles Rams, New York Jets, New Jersey Nets, and ESPN as well as serving as a sports update guy for WFAN radio.  Paul is another of our guests who have been a target of an infamous profanity-laden rant from the late, Los Angeles Dodgers manager, Tommy Lasorda.  From 1994 to 2005, Paul worked as the Super Bowl public address announcer.  We discuss all of this and so much more as Paul leads us through his wonderful life and career. Between the two interviews, Jeff has a rant you will not want to miss. We recommend you go to baseballbbq.com https://baseballbbq.com for special grilling tools and accessories, the Pandemic Baseball Book Club, https://www.pbbclub.com  to find many of the wonderful books we have featured as well as some additional swag, BBQ Buddha, https://bbqbuddha.com/ for rubs and award-winning sauces and Magnechef https://magnechef.com/ for excellent and unique barbecue gloves. We conclude the show with the song, "Baseball Always Brings You Home" by the musician, Dave Dresser, and the poet, Shel Krakofsky. We truly appreciate our listeners and hope that all of you are staying safe. If you would like to contact the show, we would love to hear from you.   Call the show:  (516) 855-8214 Email:  baseballandbbq@gmail.comTwitter:  @baseballandbbqInstagram:  baseballandbarbecueYouTube:  baseball and bbqWebsite:  https//baseballandbbq.weebly.com Facebook:  baseball and bbq

Craig Bolerjack joins the guys today to talk about the Jazz off season, the start of summer league, and how Boler is filling his spare time. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Back in a New York Groove! This is The Zone of Disruption! This is the I AM RAPAPORT: STEREO PODCAST! His name is Michael Rapaport aka The Gringo Mandingo aka aptain Colitis aka The Disruptive Warrior aka Mr. NY aka The Inflamed Ashkenazi aka The Sultan of Sniff is here to discuss: Having the docket be empty & not turning the motor on, The Crayon Box, NBA Playoff Action & Consistency, Re-Viewing The Last Dance, Magic Johnson's Documentary, James Harden's shortcomings, Tom Brady's Announcement, Elon Musk playing games & wanting DTRUMP back on, Kendrick Lamar's Album & a whole lotta mo'! This episode is not to be missed!   Stand Up Comedy Tickets on sale at: MichaelRapaportComedy.com   For all things sports wagering use MyBookie.AG with Promo Code: RAPAPORT   If you are interested in MLB, NHL, NBA & UFC Picks/Parlays Follow @TheCaptainPicks on Instagram & subscribe to packages at www.CaptainPicks.com   www.dbpodcasts.com   Produced by DBPodcasts.com Follow @dbpodcasts, @iamrapaport, @michaelrapaport on TikTok, Twitter & Instagram Music by Jansport J (Follow @JansportJ) www.JansportJMusic.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Danny Parkins and Matt Spiegel hosted a special broadcast at Harry Caray's Tavern at Navy Pier for the 24th annual Worldwide Toast to Harry Caray. Former Bulls announcer Tom Dore joined the show to share the lessons he learned from Caray.

UNPACKIN' it Presented by MEDI-SHAREBIO:Jerry Schemmel is a play-by-play announcer and color analyst for the Colorado Rockies. Before that, he did play-by-play for the Denver Nuggets, Minnesota Timberwolves, and Colorado State. He is a survivor of the crash-landing of United Airlines Flight 232 on July 19, 1989. After escaping the plane, he returned to the wreckage to rescue an 11-month-old baby. His book, Chosen to Live, describes the experience. He is also the host of the nationally syndicated radio show, "Amazing Americans." TOPICS:Jokic earning back to back NBA MVP's His return back to the Rockies after being away for two years The benefits of taking two years away from baseball The joy of being back with the Rockies The dream job growing up The joy of calling games in the NBA and Major League Baseball The experience of being around Ed McCaffrey this past year at Northern Colorado His approach to speaking to Christian groups – surviving a plane crash His faith journey His encouragement to others on their faith journey The influence of his wife on his faith Louisiana brand Hot Sauce! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Mac and Bone close down a Wednesday show by chatting with Connor O'Gara about the latest around college football, discussing announcers that deserve the money Brady is getting and wrapping up the show with listener texts. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Author Laura Lippman discusses her novel, What the Dead Know, along with her other novels and mysteries. Interviewer, Floyd McKay.Musical guests: Holmes Shea BandPoet's Corner: Samuel Green, the first Washington State Poet Laureate.Essayists: Alan Rhodes ...A new episode of The Bellingham Bean performed by the Chuckanut Radio Players.Announcer, Rich Donnelly and hosts, Chuck and Dee RobinsonPerformed live in Bellingham, Washington, the city of subdued excitement. 

Treble Trouble & Tom Brady News - Play By Play AnnouncerSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Will the White Sox loss last night derail their hot streak? Kap and Hoodie critique a single-A announcer with too much energy. Kap's wife left the garage door open all night, and an Animal Story.

WSL Commentator Shannon Hughes joins the pod to talk about the Mid-season Cut and her journey to becoming a Championship Tour broadcaster. First, she shares her thoughts on the Mid-season Cut, what it was like to experience it on the ground in Margaret River, witnessing all the emotions, and also seeing how the pressure pushed the level of performance through the roof. She then takes us through her own personal journey in the sport, growing up in a surfing family, moving to J-Bay at 21, starting to compete in longboard events at a later age, commentating her first event in 2013, and finally getting called up to announce the CT. She breaks down the challenges of the job, describes talking live on air for full eight-hour days, discusses overcoming some unwelcoming co-commentators early in her career, and shares some key advice from Joe Turpel for aspiring announcers. Finally, Shannon talks about all the other projects she's currently got in motion, from hosting The Double Up podcast, to starting The Women's Surf Network, to working on the “Make or Break” series and commentating at the Olympics. Keep up to date with Shannon here, check out the Women's Surf Network here, and listen to the Double-Up Podcast here. Watch her next at the Boost Mobile Gold Coast Pro presented by Rip Curl live May 7-15. Join the conversation by following The Lineup with Dave Prodan on Instagram and subscribing to our Youtube channel.  Stay up to date with all things WSL. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is the Counseling Compact Good for Therapists? Curt and Katie chat about the brand-new Counseling Compact and what therapists may not know or understand about these interstate agreements. We explore the proposed benefits as well as the potential risks and complications like regulatory discrepancies and a lack of consumer protections. We also look at how big tech can benefit while individual clinicians may be left unable to compete in a larger market. In this podcast episode we talk about the new Counseling Compact and Psypact The counselors got their 10th state and officially have Counseling Compact to practice in other states. We thought it would be a good idea to talk about what that means (and what we might want to pay attention to). What is the Counseling Compact? Opportunities for practicing privileges (not licensure) in other states The complexity of putting together these interstate compacts Implementation and regulation hurdles Scope of practice discrepancies and concerns Law and Ethics practices across states Benefits of Interstate Compacts for Mental Health Providers Continuity of care Ease of meeting with clients who are moving around the country Bringing clinicians to areas where there is a workforce shortage Potential Problems with the Counseling Compact “This very much goes against, according to the FBI, any sort of patient protection – that any of these licensing boards are put into place in the first place: to protect consumers.” – Curt Widhalm Not bringing more clinicians, if only states with workforce shortages join Doesn't solve the infrastructure problems (i.e., stable Wi-Fi) for rural areas that typically don't have local therapists The people who most benefit: the big tech companies like Better Help The FBI is opposing this legislation due to lack of federal background checks Lack of consumer protection or consistency in what consumers can expect from their therapist Costs for the therapists to get practicing privileges Large gigantic group practices and tech solutions will contract with insurance and leave smaller practices unable to compete and required to be private pay Solving the Problems with the Counseling Compact “It may actually delay [a national license], because it's a band aid where people can go practice in other states. So why would I get a national license, if I can practice in a couple other states and not worry about taking another test, getting another background check…?” – Katie Vernoy Overarching regulation and expectations at a national level Federal bodies to oversee background checks and consumer protections Expensive, time-intensive We don't have universal healthcare, so insurance parity will need to be addressed (and not just by big tech) Our Generous Sponsors for this episode of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide: OOTify OOTify. "OOT" or "uth" (उठ) means "lift up" in the Hindi language. OOTify is a digital health solution that acts as an evidence-based hub to unify relevant mental health resources. Community, Connection, and Collaboration are critical to OOTIFY.  As they lift the mental healthcare system, they ensure providers are part of the process. OOTIFY is a platform for providers, built by providers, and owned by providers. OOTIFY is the process of lifting up mental healthcare, while lifting each other up. We need to talk about our mental health. We need to make our mental health stronger so we can withstand the things that happen in our life. We're going to go through trials and tribulations. But if we can work on our mental health, proactively, our wellness, we can handle all that as a community and come together. People are more open to talk about these stories and say, “Hey, listen, I'm going through this too.” Do be you want to be a part of the solution by joining a new web three community focused on mental health and wellness? Join the OOTify community as an investor or mental health provider by visiting ootify.com/contact. You can also give us a follow on social media to stay tuned on exciting updates. Turning Point Financial Life Planning Turning Point Financial Life Planning helps therapists stop worrying about money. Confidently navigate every aspect of your financial life - from practice financials and personal budgeting to investing, taxes and student loans. Turning Point is a financial planning & coaching firm that helps therapists stop worrying about money. Dave at Turning Point will help you navigate every aspect of your financial life - from practice financials and personal budgeting to investing, taxes and student loans. He'll help you move through that feeling of being stuck, frustrated and overwhelmed... And arrive at a place where you feel relief, validation, motivation and hope. And for listeners of MTSG, you'll receive $200 off the price of any service. Just enter promo code Modern Therapist. Be sure and visit turningpointHQ.com and download the free whitepaper “7 Money Mindset Shifts to Reduce Financial Anxiety” Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We've pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Counseling Compact Psypact Very Bad Therapy Podcast Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Special Series: Fixing Mental Healthcare in America Fixing Mental Health in America: An interview with Dr. Nicole Eberhart, Senior Behavioral Scientist, and Dr. Ryan McBain, Policy Researcher, The RAND Corporation Online Therapy Apps Why You Shouldn't Sell Out to Better Help   Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: www.curtwidhalm.com Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: www.katievernoy.com A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We're working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren't trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don't want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Patreon Buy Me A Coffee Podcast Homepage Therapy Reimagined Homepage Facebook Twitter Instagram YouTube   Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: The Fifty-Minute Hour Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group   Modern Therapist's Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/ Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/   Transcript for this episode of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide podcast (Autogenerated): Curt Widhalm  00:00 This episode is brought to you by OOTify.   Katie Vernoy  00:03 OOTify is an immersive digital mental health ecosystem. It's designed to help minimize the fragmentation, trial and error and overwhelm felt by both patients and providers in the process of giving and receiving care. OOTify is the process of lifting up mental health care while lifting each other up.   Curt Widhalm  00:20 Listen at the end of the episode for more information.   Katie Vernoy  00:23 This episode is also brought to you by Turning Point.   Curt Widhalm  00:26  Turning Point Financial Life Planning helps therapists stop worrying about money. Confidently navigate every aspect of your financial life from practice financials and personal budgeting to investing taxes and student loans.   Katie Vernoy  00:39 Visit turningpointhq.com. To learn more and enter the promo code 'moderntherapist' for $200 off any service.   Announcer  00:47 You're listening to The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide where therapists live, breathe and practice as human beings. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, here are your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy.   Curt Widhalm  01:03 Welcome back modern therapists. This is The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide. I'm Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy. And this is the podcast for therapists about things going on in the therapy worlds. And recently, the 10th state has joined the counseling compact, which initiates that it is all coming together for licensed professional counselors here in America. And what this does is creates a whole lot of space for people to make up what they think that it is. And we are here to correct that information. So, Katie, lots of things to talk about in this episode, what are your initial reactions.   Katie Vernoy  01:49 So my initial reactions typically with all of these pacts, so there's Counseling Pact, there's PSYPACT or Counseling Compact and PSYPACT, which is a psychologist, and then the social workers are working on something. As for MFTs so far, we don't have something going on. But I have mixed feelings. Because I think for me, I have clients who travel around to different states. And so I can only see them when they're in states I'm licensed in, I've got ideas around being able to support folks in areas that have fewer clinicians or clinicians who specialize in and what they need. And I also recognize I live in a state that has a very high cost of living. And so if there are therapists in states with much lower cost of living who are quote, unquote, taking my clients, I think it would be something where that that may make it harder for me to compete in my own market. So lots of mixed feelings. And I'm not quite sure at least until we started prepping for this episode, I wasn't quite sure what these compacts meant. And so I think probably we should start with, What's the Counseling Compact? If we, you know, it's PSYPACT different? What's the social workers working on? But broadly, what are these things? And why do people care about them?   Curt Widhalm  03:05 So these pacts are going to be slightly different between the counselors and the psychologists and psychologists is PSYPACT. The Counseling Compact is for counselors, we're not really going to talk a whole lot about social workers and MFTs, because they have not gotten their act together and have anything moving in this direction yet. Social workers do. But in talking about the two that are already in place, or quickly moving into place, what it does is allows for somebody, this is language from the Counseling Compact, what it does is allows for somebody who is licensed in and resides in one of the member states to have practicing privileges through some regulation stuff in other states. So it's not just like a license reciprocity where you are granted now a 10 state license, you have to go through some certain steps of just picking a couple of states out of this here. But if you are, say, practicing in Nebraska, and you have a person in West Virginia, who wants to utilize your services, you would need to go to the West Virginia Board and have a streamlined ability to get a privilege to practice with clients in West Virginia.   Katie Vernoy  04:30 Okay, but you have to live in Nebraska, it can't be like I live in California, and I'm licensed in Nebraska. So now then I can practice with somebody in West Virginia, if I get that streamlined.   Curt Widhalm  04:42 Yes, and this is the language that you have to be licensed in and reside in one of those states. So many people have licensure in multiple states already. If you are not one of the 10 states as a resident this does not apply to you. So this is not like a, you know, huge like opening up the gates to everybody living all over the place. California being where Katie and I reside, we can't just go and get licensed in Utah and now have the ability to practice in all of these other states. A residency requirement is part of this as well.   Katie Vernoy  05:20 Well, one thing, I think that it does start things moving, because I know with PSYPACT, there are 34 states in process. So it is the beginning of something, it's just a matter of right now, this is the very beginning stages and other states may join. But in some of the conversations and research we've done, it sounds like there's a lot that goes into it once a state joins. And even in putting together the overarching compact, there is this need to get kind of almost universal expectations, kind of an overarching, regulatory body, there's also needs to, you know, look at scope of practice issues, which at least as we're aware of MFT stuff, but there's very different scope of practice for California MFTs than there is for Texas, or West Virginia MFTs, for example. And so there's a lot of complexity that's going to be sorted out as this starts to get implemented. But the idea is that these compacts these interstate compacts are meant to provide a launchpad for more states to join, right?   Curt Widhalm  06:29 And this is some of the stuff that's got to be ironed out over the next couple of years. And frankly, I'd be surprised if all 10 of these states are able to address some of these discrepancies over the next few years. And for example, and I know not all of these states are currently part of the 10. But they do sometimes have some legislation to get them involved in the Counseling Compact here. But looking at the different requirements in different states, Georgia as an example, one of the 10 States does have a pretty high barrier to entry when it comes to becoming licensed within the state. And so I'm going to emphasize again, this is practicing privileges in other states, that is not a full reciprocity of license. So if somebody is practicing, gets practicing privileges in Georgia as a member of this Counseling Compact, one of the things that needs to be addressed is the discrepancy between what is allowed from one state to the next, for example, some states allow counselors to provide diagnostics of clients, other states do not and what has yet to be ironed out on this is how much does this change the scope of practice in these other states? What's unclear at this point is how these things are going to be regulated. While there is a central body that will oversee this compact, because of the way that it's set up each of these states are the ones who are still overseeing their own licensees, disciplinary actions and abilities to practice. So it's not like you're gonna be able to sit at home and do telehealth across all of these 10 states, and be able to practice just in the way that you are at home with your home state's clients, you're also going to run into well, I can diagnose this client but not this one. Or I need to be aware of, you know, my ability to do things ethically, one way in one state, but because of the ways that the laws are written in another state, I'm not allowed to do this. So these are some of the things that now have to be centrally addressed across all of these states here.   Katie Vernoy  08:48 And I think it's something that can get very confusing, but I want to re emphasize that there is this element of expectation that this means I'm in licensed and these other states and and because it's practicing privileges, is it telehealth only? If I go visit the state, could I still see those clients in person? Like what is the what is the practical difference between practicing privileges and licensure? In this regard.   Curt Widhalm  09:12 The differences is, it's not a license in another state. It's the allowance of you to be able to provide services to people in that state. But it is not the equivalent of having a license in both states.   Katie Vernoy  09:30 But what is the practical difference there? Like why do I care if I'm licensed or have practicing privileges?   Curt Widhalm  09:37 One of the major differences is that it's a lot easier to revoke practicing privileges than it is to revoke somebody's license. Having a license in both states means that you are obligated to both states licensing boards. What practicing privileges means is that you're allowed to practice here but you're still responsible to your own state's governing body for disciplinary actions, and so on and so forth. So it could be very easy. If a therapist is working with a client who's out of state and residing in Georgia, for example, Georgia could very easily be like, you're not meeting the requirements of practice in our state where you're doing out things, things outside the scope of practice in our state. And we don't like that, and you're no longer allowed to practice here. So it's a lot easier than going through a lot of the big disciplinary actions that may require revoking somebody's license in a state that they're actually licensed in.   Katie Vernoy  10:40 So for the clinician, it means that they would really need to be able to identify all the different scope of practice, how to really stay up to date in all these different states, as well as what is that kind of fine line that I can walk, either to treat all my clients the same, but super restricted, or, you know, like having different rubrics for how I treat each client. So it can get pretty complicated is what you're saying, for the clinician to pay attention to what's required of them.   Curt Widhalm  11:11 Yeah, and I think to this is where the goal is over the next couple of years to change some of this information. So that way, we're able to make it a lot simpler for people because the goal in this is with the intention of making practice easier, allowing for more people to have access to more mental health providers. However, these obstacles exist, and giving kind of the next couple of years of the ability for state legislatures to change the subsequent laws that now need to go into effect because this is in place, the goal probably is to simplify this stuff.   Katie Vernoy  11:50 Okay.   Curt Widhalm  11:51 And I haven't heard or seen anything where any of these member states have, you know, any real opposition in this way, it's just that things in the legislature can take other priorities. I mean, we saw this with the COVID 19 pandemic, where it's like all the states for a couple of years where like, everything now has to focus on COVID. So some of these obstacles are still in place. And it's just a acknowledgment that that's the system that we currently live in.   Katie Vernoy  12:21 So you mentioned kind of getting more providers for places that have provider shortages. And I think that's one of the biggest stated benefits, I think, clinician match and finding clinicians that have a specialty when you don't have a lot of clinicians in your state can be very helpful. There's also continuity of care. I've talked about my clients traveling around and especially as things open back up, there's clinicians or clients that are traveling a lot more and so we have to time their sessions versus just being able to meet at a regular time via telehealth, I think there's a lot of positives that are being seen here. We've started talking about some of the hesitations and and and we are aware that the for the MFT stuff CAMFT, AAMFT and AAMFTRB, you know, what least AMFT and CAMFT are talking and have reached out to AAMFTRB, whatever that is.   Curt Widhalm  13:12 Yeah, you got it right.   Katie Vernoy  13:13 So there's, there's conversations happening, I think, and obviously different stages for all the licenses, there's, there's a, there isn't a knowledge that this is something it's kind of the wave of the future, because we can interact so freely across state lines, like why not get this process in place, but there's a lot of complications, you know, the overarching scope of practice, the complication of setting it up and running it and all those kinds of stuff. There's a lot of stuff that's very challenging there. How much do we want to talk about that, that element versus you, you've already previewed for me anyway, that you are a little bit of a skeptic here. When do we want to what do we When do we want to shift gears to that? Because I think that there's so many folks are super excited about this. And I think there are things that are exciting about it. But there are some real concerns that I want to make sure we get to. So where should we go next? I guess is the question that I'm asking here.   Curt Widhalm  14:06 So this has all of the makings of a wonderful piece of legislation and cooperation that I don't know actually addresses what it's saying that it's intended to address.   Katie Vernoy  14:21 Okay.   Curt Widhalm  14:21 It is no surprise to anybody who listens to our podcasts that we have a mental health crisis, and we have a very understaffed mental health workforce. This theoretically allows for more clients to address more providers, but many of these states are amongst the most impacted as far as having the fewest providers available. And so if you combine 10 states who don't have enough workforce for each of their own individual states, by their 10 powers combined, theoretically can't address that even more people are going to be able to access a limited number of providers. It's not like we have, you know, a bunch of people who are all just residing in Utah, there's, you know, 9 million LPCs in Utah, who now just have like all of this free time to go and see clients who need to see counselors that Utah just has this, you know, mass amounts of people who have been confined to by state lines. This is, you know, a bunch of people without enough food now sharing that they don't have enough food with more people in more places.   Katie Vernoy  15:38 It doesn't make it worse. It just doesn't solve it is what is how I see it. But I think if folks who, if these states that have those needs don't get it started, I think it's hard because I think the big states don't need those extra jobs. Right? I mean, it maybe they do. I mean, I think there's a lot of clinicians in California, they're like, yeah, let me practice somewhere else, because I need I need clients, there's, you know, you could trip over a therapist, every few steps in California. So I mean, it's possible that with this starting, I mean, PSYPACT is going on 34 states. So we've moved beyond the the threshold in PSYPACT, where it's just states that are having provider shortages. I think I think I see what you're saying this does not solve? Did you want to start it?   Curt Widhalm  16:28 But I do want to correct one thing that you're saying is, we have a bias because we hang out with a lot of therapists in a very populated city.   Katie Vernoy  16:38 Sure.   Curt Widhalm  16:38 But California has a mental health workforce shortage as well. It's just that, this goes to address that there's rural parts of our states. And there's rural parts of a lot of these other states that are part of this, that we we have our own shortages, and we're not able to address this inviting more people to address, you know, people in rural areas. It's well intended, but it doesn't motivate or necessarily get people to the jobs that are needed in these positions.   Katie Vernoy  17:12 What you just said actually made me think about the series that we're still somewhat in the process of Fixing Mental Healthcare in America. But I think there's that that piece that the the RAND Corporation identified where there has been efforts and telehealth is a great effort to try to bring, you know, therapy to these rural areas, but the infrastructure and you know, good good WiFi, and all of the pieces to actually be able to address these things potentially are more impactful than just adding clinicians from another state that are probably going to want to access or your wealthy urban clients anyway.   Curt Widhalm  17:52 Which leads to my second criticism of this is that because of the scramble that's going to happen, the people who are most likely able to address the shortcomings of this public policy position across these 10 states are venture capital led groups like BetterHelp, that will do all of the legwork to match you up with clients in all of these rural areas. And we've got other episodes that we will talk in, you know, in BetterHelp's defence it's not just BetterHelp who can take advantage of these. But I have my concerns that the people who have already been doing this against the law, as we've discussed in our previous episodes are motivating therapists to practice across state lines, when they're not allowed to are the ones who are going to continue to contribute to the already capitalistic problems of our profession. And once again, not really with the best intentions of what clients have in store for them. But just by virtue of being able to match people more easily than any of the individual therapists in private practice. Where like, hey, my clients going on vacation, I can still see them for their regular session.   Katie Vernoy  19:21 We'll link to a lot of those episodes in the show notes. But but what I'm hearing you say Curt, is that this is super charging the big tech problem.   Curt Widhalm  19:31 Yes, it is.   Katie Vernoy  19:32 Okay. Mic drop.   Curt Widhalm  19:39 Pick that mic right back up, because they're, I don't know, I'm the resident, you know, contrarian of the show, the one who's maybe trying to poke at things and often I hear from listeners or from Katie or other people in my life is like, Why let perfection be the enemy of good? And so I am looking, you know, for who else opposes this? And I did come across somebody else on the opposition side of this. And it's a little group called the FBI.   Katie Vernoy  20:20 Why? Why is the FBI opposing this?   Curt Widhalm  20:25 For those unfamiliar with the FBI, they are a law enforcement agency. And they are one of the generally two places that when you go to get licensed that your background checks go to.   Katie Vernoy  20:38 Ah, yes.   Curt Widhalm  20:39 And so the rationale in other interstate compacts, including Counseling Compact, including PSYPACT, including medical compacts, and nurses compacts, the FBI has had a pretty consistent position on this. And their reasoning is that these states entering into these agreements, does not give them the right to supersede federal background checks. Now, allowing for practicing privileges in another state allows for the bypass of doing a background check for that state.   Katie Vernoy  21:13 Oh, interesting.   Curt Widhalm  21:14 And the way that the Department of Justice allows for some of these states to get the results of background checks, does not allow for them to share the information from those background checks.   Katie Vernoy  21:27 Oh, that's why if you get licensed in another state, even if you can say like, Hey, I'm licensed over here, they did my background check. The new state still needs a background check.   Curt Widhalm  21:37 And giving practicing privileges as I understand this legislation to be written today does not require background checks. It allows for the disciplinary boards to share information about discipline. But let's say that a therapist from one of these 10 states, goes on a weekend Bender in Vegas and ends up in the Clark County Jail. That information does not necessarily get shared with either licensing states because why, but then also doesn't get shared with any of the other practicing privileged states. It's not something that would mess like up. Overall therapists don't get arrested.   Katie Vernoy  22:22 Yeah, just don't   Curt Widhalm  22:23 Yes. But especially don't get arrested in your practicing states, because you're practicing states have with their own State Department of Justice's, like, California BBS. Like if somebody gets arrested, and they're licensed California, they get a little like, ping the next morning of like, hey, one of your licensees was arrested. But if you're, if you're gonna get arrested, don't get arrested, you know, being outside of your jurisdiction, at least, there's some opportunities to fall through the cracks there. And the...   Katie Vernoy  22:55 Are you telling people to how to avoid getting in trouble?   Curt Widhalm  22:58 This is not legal advice. And legal advice, once again, is don't get arrested. But what the FBI's database does, is allows for this information to be pinged in each time that somebody goes through a background check. The FBI is saying that this does not actually empower any of the states to know information if somebody was to have a an offense against them that wasn't caught or happened after their own background check to get a license in their own state.   Katie Vernoy  23:31 Well, I'm just even thinking for myself, I have not been arrested. I don't have anything that I have to worry about. But yeah, I haven't had a background check for 15 years? So I could be doing all kinds of stuff and get practicing privileges elsewhere - is what you're telling me?   Curt Widhalm  23:48 Yes. And so this very much goes against, according to the FBI, any sort of patient protection that any of these licensing boards are put into place in the first place to protect consumers.   Katie Vernoy  24:03 Well, I haven't think taking this further the whole consumer protection angle, and I think I'm gonna give you credit, you mentioned this before we started recording. But as a consumer, I have no place to check if you actually do have practicing privileges in my state, or if there's any problems. I mean, I guess I could look at your licensing state if I knew how to do that, knew where to do it, and can see if there's any any dings on your license, but, but it really takes some of the stuff out of the consumers hand being able to identify, you know, anything about the person that they're working with.   Curt Widhalm  24:41 And I imagine that these are things that are going to need to be addressed over the next few years as having some way of centrally notifying each other's state licensures or any of that kind of stuff. And I'm sure that there's somebody out there saying, But Curt this hasn't been a problem with PSYPACT yet. And the answer that I have back in response to you is "that we know of, and it will likely happen."   Katie Vernoy  25:13 Well, I think it's something where there's, and this was something that I hadn't thought about. But in a conversation that we had, I think it's something where, with psychologists, the, as far as I know, the licensing exams, their expectations are pretty constant across the United States. And so if somebody messes up in the state that they're licensed in, that's going to have a big impact, because it is the same pretty far across and I, this doesn't address the federal background checks. But I think it does address this kind of idea of all the complexity and and consumers having an issue because what they're expecting from their clinician is not what they get, because their clinician practices way differently than anybody in their state, for example, but MFTs don't have that. I mean, there's that there's a national association, but all 50 states basically have different expectations. Counselors, I think, are a little bit more streamlined and so that's probably why they're moving forward. Social workers are very streamlined, and I'm sure they're going to probably get, you know, glide through this. But I think it's something where that feels solvable, you know, getting a getting some way that there's this the background checks and that kind of stuff, if you're if you're part of this compact, if you choose to get practicing privileges, there's a federal body that you then have to get a background check. And then that, you know, somebody at the federal level is running it versus each state having to do it. You know, I think there's some legislation that could probably really help this. But that seems really expensive. And I'm wondering, you know, there's part of me, that's like do therapists care? Do to consumers care? I mean, like, we're worried about this regulation and there's part of me, and there's a whole podcast devoted to this Very Bad Therapy. But there's, there's bad clinicians that are not going to have oversight. But then there's also all of these clients, who don't have access to therapists who accept them as who they are. And so having some of these things come into place, like to me, it seems like it could be good. So I'm getting all over the place. So bring us back to something that's that's helpful. But I think there's, there's this element of it feels solvable. I just don't know the timeline, or how much money, but...   Curt Widhalm  27:36 That those two points are the problems that I foresee with this, that it's none of these things that I'm bringing up are unsolvable. Maybe the BetterHelp thing. But...   Katie Vernoy  27:52 That's a different problem. It's separate from this problem to solve.   Curt Widhalm  27:55 Right. But it's probably going to be a lot more costs that are passed on to the providers than anybody sees. The buzz that I'm initially hearing from people on this is very much like you that most people are taking this as, oh, I can just kind of see my clients wherever they travel, as long as they're in one of these 10 states.   Katie Vernoy  28:19 Yeah.   Curt Widhalm  28:19 And that is not true. And each one of these states is going to be additional costs. And you know, the background checks thing is, all right, you still go down to your local fingerprinting place, you do your live scan, you're just having it reported to a different state board and the FBI each time. And those things add up, you know, 50 bucks at a time adds up. Yeah, times that by 10 states, times it by the application fees, because part of the legislation that was written for all of these states is basically written by the same people. And it's, you know, quote, unquote, not actually a direct quote here, but not going to have anything more than administrative costs passed on to clinicians. There's a lot of administration costs in this that any of the licensing boards are more or less operating at a break even point that adding on a bunch of new staff to process out of state therapists and to verify things. Those are going to be cost that add up. Are they going to be cheaper than getting a license and meeting all the requirements in these other states? Absolutely. But these are costs that are going to add up for people. This is not going to be a free for all that all of these state licensing boards are going to allow here.   Katie Vernoy  29:40 Yeah, I think that's the thing that's that's hard because there's a lot of elements to this, that says that like this is this, this makes everything smooth and easy. This really provides additional access and the more we've talked together about it when we've talked to other folks about it, it just I'm hearing that there is so much complexity to how this operates, that it may not happen for all states, because you know, states that have enough clinician, states that have a higher cost of living, they may not feel the need to, to add to their costs, or their clinician base. And so they're not going to take it on. But but when I look at, you know, really what we're talking about, it's, it's trying to put a bandaid on this problem. And hopefully, it's it's something that there's actually real federal legislation that can help to increase the infrastructure in places that need more clinicians, help to, to create systems that actually address some of these concerns that you're bringing up. But that would require tax dollars, versus clinicians paying application fees, and all those things. I mean, I heard, I think that's the thing I heard was like, millions of dollars to get this setup, you know, I mean, like, that's, I guess, if you've got a lot of clinicians, that's a cross of a lot of clinicians, you know, if they are savvy clinicians, those fees are then incorporated into the fees they charge, which then for private pay clinicians anyway means that they're charging more. Insurance panels aren't going to pay you more just because you've got some extra that's under your belt. And so it's something where the cost thing hasn't been figured out, nor has the infrastructure both on the client side, but also on this regulatory side, it feels like there's just so much to figure out here.   Curt Widhalm  31:35 And that's something that I haven't even seen how insurance is going to work across state lines that I willingly admit that I don't know the inner workings of a lot of the insurance process, but knowing that, all right, yeah, it's great that you can see a client to timezones away. But does their insurance allow it? And this is another factor that's going to be in it. And, you know, we can talk all day long, and I'm already pre addressing some of the criticisms of this episode from people. We don't yet have universal health care. Don't even bring that up, like...   Katie Vernoy  32:14 Sure.   Curt Widhalm  32:15 Don't make arguments about systems that we don't have. These are problems that need to be addressed in the meantime. And yeah, I know that some people are going to say that this is the first step towards national licensure and this kind of stuff. OK or maybe...   Katie Vernoy  32:32 It may, it may actually delay it, it may delay it, because it's a band aid where people can go practice in other states. So why would I get a national license, if I can practice in a couple other states and not worry about taking another task, getting another background check, blah, blah, blah. I before we before we finish up, because I think there's probably going to be responses that then lead to additional episodes on this topic. But I think that just to kind of maybe poke the beast here a little bit. But with the with the insurance stuff, I think we're already seeing what insurance companies are going to do. And that is contract with these large tech companies that have clinicians across all the states pay them more so clinicians can get more, but it means that individual practitioners almost de facto have to be private pay, because they're going to get worse insurance rates, and they're not going to be able to really compete, certainly not in advertising dollars, or whatever. And we have a whole episode on this, but they're not able to compete with a gigantic quote unquote, tech solutions and or group practices. And so I think, I think it's something where there is a lot to consider here. I think there's going to be a lot of conversations that we want to have related to the disruptors, the tech disruptors in the space, who are the good ones, who are the ones that are challenging, and potentially hurting our profession? How do we, you know, step into this and, and take ownership of this space because, you know, there is so much and and potentially these these compacts allow for us to compete at this level. Or it may make it harder and I guess that's to be seen, I really think.   Curt Widhalm  34:14 Giving over the power, giving over the insurance contracts to publicly traded corporations means decisions get made quarter by quarter based on profits. And that is not what the healthcare system should be. We're kind of in a space where some people are able to compete against that but so many more episodes to be done on this. We will include some links to some stuff in our show notes. You can find those over at mtsgpodcast.com. You can bring up your concerns or tell us why you think that I am wrong on our social media.   Katie Vernoy  34:54 Or I'm wrong. I we've got a lot that we said here. So definitely join us over at the Facebook Group, tell us what we're what we missed, because we certainly missed a lot, I'm sure.   Curt Widhalm  35:04 And until next time, I'm Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy.   Katie Vernoy  35:08 Thanks again to our sponsor, OOTify.   Curt Widhalm  35:10 “OOT” or “uth” (उठ) means “lift up” in the Hindi language. OOTify is a digital health solution that acts as an evidence based hub to unify relevant mental health resources. Community connection and collaboration are critical to OOTify. As they lift the mental health care system, they ensure providers are part of the process. OOTify is a platform for providers built by providers and owned by providers. OOTify is in the process of lifting up mental health care while lifting each other up.   OOTify  35:43 We need to talk about our mental health. We need to make our mental health stronger so we can withstand the things that happen in our life. We're gonna go through trials and tribulations. But if we can work on our mental health proactively our wellness, we can handle all that as a community and come together, people are more open to talk about these stories and say, Hey, listen, I'm going through this too. Do you want to be a part of the solution by joining a new web three community focused on mental health and wellness? Join the unified community as an investor or mental health provider by visiting ootify.com/contact. You can also give us a follow on social media to stay tuned on exciting updates.   Curt Widhalm  36:25 This episode is also brought to you by Turning Point.   Katie Vernoy  36:29 We wanted to tell you a little bit more about our sponsor Turning Point. Turning Point is a financial planning and coaching firm that helps therapists stop worrying about money. Dave, our good buddy over atTurning Point will help you navigate every aspect of your financial life from practice financials and personal budgeting to investing, taxes and student loans. He'll help you move through that feeling of being stuck, frustrated and overwhelmed, and arrive at a place where you feel relief, validation, motivation and hope.   Curt Widhalm  37:00 And for listeners of MTSG you'll receive $200 off the price of any service. Just enter the promo code 'moderntherapist', be sure and visit turningpointhq.com and download the free white papers Seven Money Mindset Shifts to Reduce Financial Anxiety. That's turningpointhq.com   Announcer  37:18 Thank you for listening to The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide. Learn more about who we are and what we do at mtsgpodcast.com. You can also join us on Facebook and Twitter. And please don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss any of our episodes.

IN THIS EPISODE: - It's our Season 27 finale! - "Am I the only one who thinks Vince McMahon is one of the greatest announcers of all time?" - NBC's Friday Night Videos 7/27/1990, hosted by Bobby Heenan AND SO MUCH MORE! Video version of the review:  https://vimeo.com/705841241/cb24f9a74d For extra content: patreon.com/ovppodcast Website: ovppodcast.com Twitter: @ovppodcast

The Lucky Mojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour is a real, live call-in show where the general public gets a chance to ask about actual problems with love, career, and spiritual protection, and we recommend and fully describe hoodoo rootwork spells to address, ameliorate, and remediate their issues. We begin this show with a Tutorial on How to Speak with Spirits: Entering into Trance States. You will learn a lot just by listening -- but if you sign up at the Lucky Mojo Forum and call in and your call is selected, you will get a free consultation from three of the finest workers in the field, cat yronwode, ConjureMan, and a special guest from AIRR, Freya Rose. Sign up before the show to appear as a client! Post at the Lucky Mojo Forum at: https://forum.luckymojo.com/lmhrhour-free-readings-may-8-2022-how-to-speak-with-spirits-t96593.html Then call in at 818-394-8535 and dial '1' to flag our Studio Board Operator that you want to be on the air! We select new client sign-ups first and then call-back sign-ups. Call in just before the show begins and listen via your phone. Message the Announcer or the Studio Board Operator ("Lucky Mojo Curio Company") in chat to let them know you're available.

New IU PA announcer Jeremy Gray talks about replacing legendary Chuck Crabb. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ethan Graham joins the show to chat about the art of PA Announcing, sales, narrating Tim & Alyssa's breakup, dating a former coworker, the Cleveland Browns, and why competing in a pizza eating contest may not be a great idea right before you do a tarp pull!

LowcoSports.com's Justin Jarrett and Wes Kerr keep you in the know with the latest sports news and analysis from the South Carolina Lowcountry in the LowcoSports Lowdown. This week's show includes high school spring sports playoff updates, another PGA Tour start for Bryson Nimmer, and a star-studded lineup of camp coaches for the 2022 All-American Football Camp with a great lineup of former Seahawks and a strong Notre Dame Fighting Irish flavor. Plus, USCB play-by-play announcer Dylan Kerns pops in with Wes to talk about the Sand Shark baseball team's upcoming trip to the Sun Conference Tournament. THE LOWDOWN • Intro/check-in • (5:00) Spring playoffs roundup/ Beaufort tennis reaches lower state final, golf wins Region 7-4A tourney • (10:00) Bryson Nimmer earns sponsor exemption at Wells Fargo Championship • (15:00) USCB Baseball talk with Dylan Kerns • (36:00) Coaches named for 2022 All-American Football Camp • (44:00) Teams/Athletes of the Week Local sports content that is not sponsored is now available only to LowcoSports.com's Patreon supporters. Pledge your monthly support here for as little as $1 per month to ensure you have access to all of our grassroots LOCAL sports coverage!

He's the voice of the Boston Celtics, and he joins us to preview Bucks-Celtics Game Two. Sean Grande joins The Wendy's Big Show!

SHOUT OUTS  Thanks to all our patrons and everyone in the Runcation Nation for your support and encouragement.  Because of you, we have been able to keep the show going over the last two years, and now that the races are returning, we look forward to meeting up with you, too! Congratulations to John Schroeder, who invited us to do our weekend coffee chat from his Cars and Coffee event at Innisbrook Resort. Susie, JoJo, and Darlene took their runcation to Kentucky for the Kentucky Derby Mini Marathon this past weekend.  They celebrated JoJo's big birthday in true “Runcation Nation” fashion with excellent running, eating, and drinking!  Darlene carried her running into Sunday when she completed the Flying Pig Half Marathon in Ohio.  Kelly from our crew ran it, too!  Way to get it done, ladies!   For anyone who would like a shoutout on the show, please don't forget to send them to us.  We do our best to collect shoutouts throughout the week, but please send them our way!  Please send them to info@runeatdrink.net or call 941-677-2733! Thank you to Joanne Blatchley, Associate Producer of our show.   Thank you to Josh Ozbirn, Executive Producer of the podcast, too!  We couldn't do it without you. If you'd like more of the Run Eat Drink Podcast, including bonus content and early access to episodes, become a patron!  Go to www.patreon.com/runeatdrinkpodcast to find out more. RUN This week, we share our “noisy” interview with race announcer and half of Team Noisy, cancer survivor, runner, inspiration, and author, Fitz Koehler. We want to thank Fitz for the inspiring conversation in this episode.  We hope you will give her book a listen or a read.  It is so valuable.  You will find the wisdom to help you, no matter where you are in life or what challenge you may be facing at the moment.   You can get it on her website, and she will autograph it for you!  And, if you want to connect with Fitz, as she said in the chat, say hi and introduce yourself.  Let her know you heard her on the Run Eat Drink Podcast. Links are here: Instagram: Fitzness Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/Fitzness  Team Noisy Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/TeamNoisy  Twitter:  https://twitter.com/fitzness  TikTok: https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdbYrQqC/ (@fitzness13) https://www.youtube.com/c/fitzness  Website: https://www.fitzness.com/  Fitz,  if you are reading this now, thank you.  Those words seem too small to express our appreciation for all the race experiences you create for all runners and the time you took to inspire the rest of the “Runcation Nation" and us on this week's episode.  We can't wait to see you again at a finish line soon! EAT & DRINK As we like to do on our show when we have a special interview episode, we asked Fitz to tell us her favorite food and beverage options when we talked to her.  Did they surprise you?  Do you love the same things she does?  Let us know! THAT'S A WRAP! Runcation Nation,  don't forget your discount code for the Black Knight DONNA Mother's Day 5K and Your Way!   You can go to www.runeatdrink.net/donna.   You can be a part of it virtually or in person, and there's a discount code exclusively for all of you.  Use RUNEATDRINK for 5% off an entry for either the in-person or virtual race options.   Thank you for listening!  We are looking forward to YEAR NUMBER 5 of the podcast because of your support! Don't forget to follow us and tell us where to find you next on our website, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.  Also, check out our store on the website and get some swag, thanks to Pure Creative Apparel.  Thanks to PodcastMusic.com for providing the music for this episode, too!

Clinical Considerations When Working with Asian Immigrants, Refugees, and Dreamers: An Interview with Soo Jin Lee Curt and Katie interview Soo Jin Lee, LMFT on the clinical implications of working with Asian American immigrants, refugees, and dreamers. We explore how best to assess these clients, specific clinical considerations related to the immigration experience (and legal status in the country), and ideas for working with these clients clinically. We also talk about the impact of societal views, media portrayals, and representation on AAPI clients. An Interview with Soo Jin Lee, LMFT Soo Jin Lee is a co-director of Yellow Chair Collective and co-founder of Entwine Community. She is a licensed marriage and family therapist in CA and has a special focus on training and consulting on Asian mental health related issues. She is passionate about assisting individuals find a sense of belonging and identity through reckoning of intersectional identity work and those that are navigating through difficult life changes.   In this podcast episode, we talk about what therapists should know about Asian American immigrants, refugees, and dreamers In preparation for Asian American Pacific Islander Heritage month, we wanted to dig more deeply into specific issues relevant to the AAPI community that are often not discussed in grad school or therapist training programs. What assessment questions should be included for AAPI immigrant clients? How to assess and ask about the immigration story (including about whether someone is documented or undocumented) The assumption of citizenship status during the assessment Exploration of cultural values and family dynamics The definitions for refugee, asylum seekers, immigrant, undocumented immigrant, dreamer Looking at reasons behind coming to the United States as well as legal status in the country   What is the impact of societal views and media portrayals of Asians on AAPI clients? The common stereotypes and the gap in the representation in the Asian diaspora The typical portrayal of undocumented immigrants from Latin America, Mexico, etc. Lack of representation in the media of the broad experience of being an undocumented immigrant or refugee The misrepresentation of families being all documented or undocumented (it's actually a mix of statuses) Language, cultural and values differences between the generations   What are the unique clinical issues for refugees and undocumented immigrants? “We call ourselves dreamers, but at the same time the dreams tend to be a lot smaller or not attainable because there are also educational barriers and there are financial barriers as well.” – Soo Jin Lee, LMFT The uncertainty of staying in the country The hidden traumas and the fear of being kicked out The lack of planning for the future Education and financial barriers to pursuing the future Trauma and PTSD are key elements, but sharing the story means that their survival is at risk   How do therapists more effectively work with refugees and undocumented immigrants in therapy? “Provide a safe enough space and perhaps a more creative space, so that the story, the entirety of their journey, does not have to be nitpicked and talked about in a verbal manner. Are there modalities that you can adapt as a therapist, that they can go through in their mind, in a story book, in an art format, or any other way… that they can tell their story without being asked and interrogated about their story?” – Soo Jin Lee, LMFT The fear and risk involved in disclosure and the challenge of talking about identity Exploring their story creatively, without nitpicking or having to interrogate or make them verbalize their story The importance of building trust and building a safe space within therapy Bringing the mainstream media into the session Addressing fear and decision-making Soo Jin Lee's healing journey to become a therapist and advice for other dreamers   Our Generous Sponsors for this episode of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide: Turning Point Financial Life Planning Turning Point Financial Life Planning helps therapists stop worrying about money. Confidently navigate every aspect of your financial life - from practice financials and personal budgeting to investing, taxes and student loans. Turning Point is a financial planning & coaching firm that helps therapists stop worrying about money. Dave at Turning Point will help you navigate every aspect of your financial life - from practice financials and personal budgeting to investing, taxes and student loans. He'll help you move through that feeling of being stuck, frustrated and overwhelmed... And arrive at a place where you feel relief, validation, motivation and hope. And for listeners of MTSG, you'll receive $200 off the price of any service. Just enter promo code Modern Therapist. Be sure and visit turningpointHQ.com and download the free whitepaper “7 Money Mindset Shifts to Reduce Financial Anxiety”   OOTify OOTify. "OOT" or "uth" (उठ) means "lift up" in the Hindi language. OOTify is a digital health solution that acts as an evidence-based hub to unify relevant mental health resources. Community, Connection, and Collaboration are critical to OOTIFY.  As they lift the mental healthcare system, they ensure providers are part of the process. OOTIFY is a platform for providers, built by providers, and owned by providers. OOTIFY is the process of lifting up mental healthcare, while lifting each other up. We need to talk about our mental health. We need to make our mental health stronger so we can withstand the things that happen in our life. We're going to go through trials and tribulations. But if we can work on our mental health, proactively, our wellness, we can handle all that as a community and come together. People are more open to talk about these stories and say, “Hey, listen, I'm going through this too.” Do be you want to be a part of the solution by joining a new web three community focused on mental health and wellness? Join the OOTify community as an investor or mental health provider by visiting ootify.com/contact. You can also give us a follow on social media to stay tuned on exciting updates. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We've pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Yellow Chair Collective Yellow Chair Collective on Instagram Asian American Experience Support Group   Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Asian American Mental Health: An interview with Linda Yoon, LCSW Let's Talk About Race Again: An interview with Yin Li, LMFT Therapy with an Accent: An interview with Nam Rindani, LMFT Invisible and Scrutinized: An interview with Dr. Sheila Modir Therapy for Intercountry Transracial Adoptees: An interview with Moses Farrow, LMFT     Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: www.curtwidhalm.com Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: www.katievernoy.com A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We're working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren't trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don't want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Patreon Buy Me A Coffee Podcast Homepage Therapy Reimagined Homepage Facebook Twitter Instagram YouTube   Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: The Fifty-Minute Hour Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group   Modern Therapist's Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/ Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/   Transcript for this episode of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide podcast (Autogenerated):   Curt Widhalm  00:00 This episode of Modern Therapist's Survival Guide is brought to you by Turning Point.   Katie Vernoy  00:04 Turning Point Financial Life Planning helps therapists stop worrying about money. Confidently navigate every aspect of your financial life from practice financials and personal budgeting to investing taxes and student loans.   Curt Widhalm  00:17 Visit turningpointhq.com to learn more and enter the promo code "moderntherapist" for $200 off any service.   Katie Vernoy  00:25 This episode is also brought to you by OOTify.   Curt Widhalm  00:28 OOTify is an immersive digital mental health ecosystem. It's designed to help minimize the fragmentation, trial and error, and overwhelmed felt by both patients and providers in the process of giving and receiving care. OOTify is the process of lifting up mental health care while lifting each other up.   Katie Vernoy  00:45 Listen at the end of the episode for more information.   Announcer  00:48 You're listening to The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide, where therapists live, breathe, and practice as human beings. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, here are your hosts, Curt Widhalm, and Katie Vernoy.   Curt Widhalm  01:04 Welcome back modern therapists, this is The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide. I'm Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy and this is the podcast for therapists about the things that we do, the things that we should be aware of in helping our clients and making the therapy a better place. And we are joined today by Soo Jin Lee, LMFT, and director of the Yellow Chair Collective, and wanting to have a really good conversation today about working with immigrants and refugees. Particularly, we're going to focus this episode around working with Asian clients, Asian immigrants and refugees, some of the considerations that we should have and how this fits within kind of the broader discussions around immigrants. And we're working with these kinds of clients that we've either ignored or not really had a great conversation about. So welcome to the podcasts. Thanks for joining us.   Soo Jin Lee  02:05 Thank you for having me.   Katie Vernoy  02:06 We are so excited to have you here and have this conversation. You and I met like almost probably a year ago and talked about this. And so I'm so glad we were able to make this happen. The first question we ask everyone is who are you? And what are you putting out into the world?   Soo Jin Lee  02:23 Yeah. So as Curt introduced, my name is Soo Jin Lee, I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and the director here at Yellow Chair Collective. I guess a little bit about me outside of that is I myself am also an immigrant. So I am what's considered a 1.5 generation immigrant. And that just means that I came here at a very young age. I will also talk about this a little bit, I'm sure within this podcast, but I also grew up as an undocumented immigrant. And so those are aspects that I would love to introduce everyone to today.   Curt Widhalm  03:02 So we usually start with questions to help people in the learning process. This is not a shaming sort of question. This is a if we can prevent people from making the same mistakes that other people have made in the past. But what do therapists typically get wrong in working with immigrants and refugees?   Soo Jin Lee  03:22 Yeah, so one of the biggest things that come to mind for me is not having a proper assessment questions, or maybe even just having a lot of fear, general fear around asking clients about their immigration story. Right? When I say immigration story, I imagine that when people see me when I went to go see a therapist, my therapist also never bothered to ask me about my immigration story. So she'd never, in the span of two years, found out that I was an immigrant, and that even I was an undocumented immigrant, which speaks to a big chunk of my life, right. And so those are missing pieces, I think, in the therapy room, oftentimes, because those are not asked. So the therapists don't really get a full picture of a lot of immigrant and refugee experiences or the family of origin backgrounds. And I think this comes often for the case for a lot of mono lingual clinicians that are speaking English. And they find themselves sitting with a client that also speaks English very fluently. So then the assumption is that we're both American citizens sitting in the room together, right?   Curt Widhalm  04:46 There seems to be a lot of space for assumption in here and wondering if you could maybe give a little bit more guidance as far as like, on one hand, I don't want to assume that you're American by birth, but also don't want to assume that you're in immigrant just because you would appear different than a monolingual like clinician. I can see this potentially going both ways here and you have maybe a recommendation for people working with communities outside of their own backgrounds to maybe navigate that line a little bit.   Soo Jin Lee  05:20 Yeah, for sure. And I think one of the things that we'll go into detail about a little bit later is about how to frame and ask these questions. But I think the first thing is to quick get into the mindset of when you're assessing a client, just as much as you're asking them about their trauma history, that you get into the habit of asking about their cultural values and backgrounds and belief systems, which not only includes their immigration story, but it also includes their spiritual backgrounds as well.   Katie Vernoy  05:51 I would imagine that even just broadly asking about family and about cultural values, that that would be something that would organically come up. Is that your experience?   Soo Jin Lee  06:01 Exactly.   Katie Vernoy  06:01 Your immagration story?   Soo Jin Lee  06:02 Yeah, exactly. Right. And so when the therapist was asking me and I often are asking about family dynamic issues, or things that are impacting barriers that your parent and you are having, oftentimes, the immigration story is part of that if they are immigrants or refugees.   Katie Vernoy  06:23 It seems like there's a knowledge here that we need to have that we don't quite have yet. And so I want to ask more of a basic question, which is we're kind of using immigrant, refugee and undocumented immigrant, can you help us kind of make sure that we're all on the same page on those definitions?   Soo Jin Lee  06:40 Yes. So let's start by definitions, the fun stuff, right. All right. So I'm going to add another term to this conversation as well. Another definition as well. But first things, let's define refugees, right? This is a term that is being thrown around a lot on the news right now. So refugees are people who have fled their own country, because they are at the risk of serious human rights violation and persecution, from where they're residing, right. They're fleeing their country, they're fleeing their home. Okay, so those are widely known as refugees and can be defined as being refugees. Now, another term that I want to define that you didn't ask, is asylum seekers. And the reason why I want to do that is because on the news, they're also used, you know, interchangeably.   Katie Vernoy  07:34 Yeah.   Soo Jin Lee  07:34 Yeah. So asylum seekers are exactly the same, like a person that is leaving their country and seeking protection from persecution and serious human rights violations from their own country, but who haven't yet been legally recognized as a refugee, and they're waiting to receive the decisions for the claim of their asylum. Right? So there's kind of this legal status, that is the difference. So on the news, they're kind of thrown around, you know, interchangeably. But if a client is defining themselves to be either asylum seeker or refugee, that really speaks into kind of this political legal status of standing that they're in, in this country. So now we go into immigrants then. And immigrants, like I identified myself as an immigrant, right, are people that have made a conscious decision to leave their country, their home and to move to a foreign country and their intention of moving is to resettle there, right, to not go back home and relive there but to resettle into this new country. So we have a lot of immigrants in this country, right. A lot of people come from other places around the world and their intention and they make that decision very consciously. They plan for this immigration journey. And they intend on resettling here making this into their home, right. A lot of the reasons for resettling, a lot of people ask me this too like, what why do people want to live here? Why the United States? Some of them with a little bit of a snarky attitude, right, like why would anybody want to live here? Right. And there's a bunch of reasons. So I can't tell you exactly what those reasons are. And that's for you to find out with your client.   Katie Vernoy  09:37 Sure sure.   Soo Jin Lee  09:38  There are that immigrants if they're the refugees, and you know that these are two different kind of journey that they have gone through, if they're refugee, they've really left out of a need, while for immigrants to they do leave out of a need oftentimes, too. But for refugees, really they had no choice but to leave. But for most of the times, a lot of immigrants did would have the choice to leave. Now I'm gonna add to that just a little bit. Because for me, as I've introduced myself, it was kind of a unique, where I didn't really get a choice to leave, but I am still an immigrant too, right. And so an undocumented immigrant are people who are born in another country, but have no legal status in the United States. You know, it's funny, because as I was kind of preparing this, and I was trying to think about how to define these kinds of terms, I read an article that was defining undocumented immigrants as foreign born person who does not have legal rights to remain in the United States. Right. And so when I saw this definition, I felt like, wow, this is perfect portrayal of how many Americans think about undocumented immigrants, right, that they don't have any rights to be here.   Katie Vernoy  11:03 Hmm, interesting. Yeah.   Soo Jin Lee  11:07 So my definition is that I just don't have or had in the past, a legal status here, a document that tells me my identity as anything here in the United States.   Curt Widhalm  11:20 You're talking about dreamers. Right.   Soo Jin Lee  11:22 So dreamers? Well, I do identify as dreamers, but undocumented immigrants or anyone that does not have any legal status in the United States.   Curt Widhalm  11:32 Okay.   Soo Jin Lee  11:33 Yeah, dreamers, I identify as dreamers. And that's another term where they came so with their parents, as young children in the United States, and became undocumented through that journey, right.   Curt Widhalm  11:49 Okay.   Soo Jin Lee  11:49 So an example of that is, and you can add this too. So the reason why I was undocumented is because my parents came here with a ToR visa, a visitor's visa. So a visitor's visa in the United States from where I'm from, allows you to stay in the United States for up to six months. Their intention was to overstay the visa and resettle here. But they could not find any other way of staying in the United States. Without having found a job in the six months of visiting the country, right, which they really couldn't, they couldn't find a right sponsor and the job. So then, during the time that my parents were looking for a job that would sponsor them to become residents, we all became undocumented. And then, during the time, where that sponsorship, was gained and lost, and this whole process of becoming a resident, I ended up becoming 21 years of age and older, which meant that my parents were able to gain their residency status, where I had to now be an adult here by myself, applying to become a resident. So that defined me to be a dreamer. Dreamers are under this umbrella of undocumented immigrants.   Curt Widhalm  13:22 So depending on the mainstream news source that people watch, there's some different portrayals of people. And I think that that has created an overarching narrative around some of these terms, and especially around you know, as you're describing undocumented, and refugees, and I don't know that the media necessarily separates them as well as you do here. Katie, and I is born and bred, people from America, we have a different perspective on how the media portrays immigrants. How are from your side of things, how are Asian immigrants portrayed? And what does that impact like?   Soo Jin Lee  14:04 Yeah, that's a really good question. So Asian Americans in general, right, whether they are immigrants, whether they're refugees, whether they're undocumented, or and all of these terms, whether they were born here, or whether even they might be fourth or fifth, sixth generation Americans, they're all portrayed into this box. And often this box is painted as Asians with lighter skin color, often East Asians, and often a lot more recently, too, as wealthy or quote unquote, Crazy Rich, right? They're often portrayed to be smart, law abiding, but not yet citizens. They're still foreigners, but they are law abiding right? So there's this huge gap of representation in the Asian diaspora. So geographically, Middle East, Southeast Asians are still part of Asia too. Right. But in the United States, it really seems that how Asian and Asian Americans are displayed is really just one way in one picture. And I fall under that category to as Korean American as East Asian, often I find myself seeing people that look like me have my colored skin being displayed on the media. But yeah, they don't really have the full scale of experience that I carry, right. They're usually very wealthy, I have no idea what they, how those people got their wealth. But often, right, that those are the stories that are being told. And none of the other stories get to be represented in the media.   Katie Vernoy  16:02 Or it seems like if they're represented in the media, there is this kind of sinister tone to it. And there's kind of a negative portrayal. And so I guess the question I have we've, we've had some of this conversation before, we've talked a few times about the model minority myth, we've talked about kind of some of the representations in the media, but but like, holding this conversation into immigrants, refugees, and undocumented immigrants, it seems like that experience is a bit different than the folks that are fourth, fifth generation, those types of things. Because I think there's, there's something that we're missing, when we don't have that full perspective. So maybe speaking into that would be helpful for our audience today. And we'll link to the other episodes in the show notes so people can dig deeper into kind of the broader topic of AAPI mental health.   Soo Jin Lee  16:52 Yeah, for sure. And so going off of that a little bit. So then when you think of undocumented immigrants, right, oftentimes, there is absolutely no portrayal or representation of Asian immigrants in that picture in that light at all. Right? Oftentimes, you are seeing on the news of people from Mexico or Latin America, Central America that are crossing the border, or they're criminals, or they are portrayed to be drug dealers, and undocumented immigrants, for a lot of them, although around half of them are from either Mexico or Latin America. A lot of the other half are from all other parts of the world, and a big chunk of that are Asians. And yet, we're not being displayed in that way. Right? We don't We are not represented in that manner.   Curt Widhalm  17:50 What's the impact on people growing up without that representation?   Soo Jin Lee  17:55 A lot of the things the, I guess, the commonly shared concerns that undocumented immigrants and refugees have, first of all, most of the immigrants and refugee families when we also think about them, it's that family unit that we think are all immigrants, or refugees, right? Because that's also portrayed in the media, like all the families are coming together to have this survival. But in the United States, most immigrants and refugee families are what we like to call a mix immigration status. Right. So one of the examples of that is, of course, what I've mentioned, right, where my parents became president, and then now citizens were I wasn't able to I was undocumented. Right. So there's this mix immigration status within one family unit. So I read that about two thirds of children of undocumented parents, right. Have US foreign citizen, kids. So then they also have a lot of this, you know, mixed status within families. Right. And then there's also children, like me, who move to the country at a young age and then stay undocumented. And then their parents got status. So there's a lot, right. Commonly shared concern that this family unit can have is this gap, right? between parents and children. There's a huge gap of sometimes language barrier, but cultural barrier and value barriers to an understanding each other. And so these are things that a lot of our clients, my own clients are bringing to the table of being able to kind of discuss, hey, here's my identity as this one person And my parents do not share that identity in a similar manner, or their struggles are looks so different from me. And yet I'm trying to figure out how to connect with them, and connect with myself and connect with the community. And so these are very, very common struggles that I hear.   Katie Vernoy  20:20 I'm thinking that you have two clients, similar age, potentially similar heritage, you know, let's say both are Korean American, and one is a refugee and one or, or an undocumented intergroup immigrant. And you can decide which one is more relevant here. And one is fourth or fifth generation. I may make assumptions if I don't understand the different stories, but But what might be the nuance there of what I need to be aware of for this client that has either refugee undocumented immigrant status, like what what what are the things that are important for me to be aware of separate from kind of the experience as an Asian American, or Korean American in the United States?   Soo Jin Lee  21:02 Yeah. So as undocumented or refugee immigrant, that daily struggles of unhidden trauma that they endure, can look really different. If you can imagine, if you're an undocumented immigrant in the United States, you always can be thrown out of your home at any time of the day, they literally come to your door, say pack up your things, and then you're headed to the jail, where then you will wait to be sent to the airport, and then out of here. For a lot of undocumented immigrants like me, who consider themselves to be dreamers, this is our home. This is where we grew up, we have no other home, we have, oftentimes, the dreamers may not even speak the language of their parents origin or where they come from themselves, right? So then there's this continual fear of is this going to be it. So a lot of times, you'll find that we call them dreamers, we call ourselves dreamers. But at the same time, the dreams tend to be a lot smaller or not attainable, because there's also educational barriers. And there's financial barriers to right. Undocumented immigrants also suffer from the fact that after you graduate from high school, you may not be able to go to college, because oftentimes, undocumented immigrants need to go through this whole other other paperwork in order for them to be admitted, and pay for the tuition. And out of college, if they do get through college, then how to find a job, right. Without documentation, oftentimes, they are unable to find employment, or when they do, it's what's called, you know, under the table, pay, right? So then this whole question of what is my future going to look like? I want to become this or that I want to be an engineer, just like everyone else. And I'm told that in America, that we can fulfill this dream, right? I'm told I can be anything. Except I'm not an American. So that dream is not really applicable to me. Right? What I have to think about is, what I'm, what am I going to do to survive here? What am I going to do to obtain status here so that that dream can come true? Right, so this extra barrier, extra concern, extra fear, that is always in the back of their minds.   Curt Widhalm  23:48 What do you recommend for therapists to do to work with this? I mean, there seems to be such great existential exploration here. But a lot of existential stuff can kind of come with the, at least the traditional ways that it seems to be taught comes with the security of at least you have this time in this space that is going to be yours. But what do you recommend therapists do in working with clients presenting with kind of this fear that's kind of constantly always sitting there?   Soo Jin Lee  24:20 Yeah, so I think for a lot of therapists, you're pretty familiar with being able to work with trauma, and being familiar with working with PTSD. And so the first thing that I do want to note is for a lot of undocumented immigrants and for refugees, sharing the story oftentimes meant that they their survival was at risk. And it speaks true still for undocumented immigrants that are living here, right. For refugees, that might mean that back home that that was the case, if they identify themselves in a certain way or if they find And if people find out or the government finds out about their their identity, their status, then they might be murdered, right? For undocumented immigrants here, if their undocumented status becomes known to the public known to the government, anybody reports them, or anything like that, there's always the fear that now my home is going to be taken away, my everything will be taken away, right. So there's always that fear. So being able to come to therapy, and to be asked to speak on your identity, to speak on your journey is quite a huge gap of what's being told for you to do on a survival basis. Right. And to get to that story, I think, takes a long time of building rapport. And, of course, that is the basic of all therapy. But really, though, to treat it, treat it very carefully, and being able to provide a safe enough space, and perhaps a more creative space. So that perhaps the story, the entirety of their journey, does not have to be nitpicked and talked about in a verbal manner, right? Are there modalities that you can adapt as a therapist, that they can go through in their mind, in a storybook, in an art format, or any other way in a motion format, right? That they can tell their story, without having to be asked and interrogated about their story.   Katie Vernoy  26:39 I feel like I want to know more about what you're describing here. Because this I think I'm understanding but I don't want to make, I want to make sure I'm not making assumptions. So you're talking about putting creative methods forward.   Soo Jin Lee  26:53 Yeah.   Katie Vernoy  26:54 Tell me more. I'm still kind of trying to sort this out.   Soo Jin Lee  26:56 Okay. I don't know. So, I really love utilizing EMDR as part of my practice. And I know brainspotting can be another another one that goes off of EMDR. Because it utilizes the body, and it goes through the journey of people's trauma without having to verbalize it. I think that's a perfect example of how people can go through processing their fear and trauma responses, without having to tell me about it.   Katie Vernoy  27:29 That makes sense. Thank you.   Soo Jin Lee  27:32 Yeah. Another thing EMDR is definitely not for everyone. And it may not be very acceptable for some of my clients too, especially some of the older older folks. They really don't like having to move their eyes or, you know, they they really don't understand, like, Why Why am I keep tapping myself. So, so then I introduce just another format of like, being able to draw out their story. So literally trying it out, like is there a color that represents how you're feeling is there, or a rock or any item on your on your table that you want to tell me about? Right, that speaks to your culture, that speaks to your value. So then we're talking about this headband, that's sitting on their table, we're talking about sensory oriented things, too. We talk about the weather a lot, actually, as a way to imagine and use imagery of going back into their place of origin. Because weather exists everywhere, it's a common thing that we are experiencing. And we are using our sensories to connect with it all the time, connect with ourselves, and our sense of belonging in the world is oftentimes through temperature through weather through the humidity in the air. So then we talk about that, and we talk about in comparison to how it was back in your country as well, right. And so then that brings about a little bit of healing in a way I get to explore, I get to talk about my other self, or my other parts that I was told that I have to be hiding. And I get to bring that in here without being interrogated.   Curt Widhalm  29:25 And like you said earlier, this for clinicians who are coming from different backgrounds takes a lot of time to develop that trust and that ability to create and honor the space and the stories of people being able to tell them in their own ways. You know, one of the things and this is totally not on our list of questions, but one of the things that I've seen a lot of excitement about is even just kind of the positive representations of like the movie Turning Red coming out that has really opened up a lot of these stories and opportunities to talk about things in ways that haven't necessarily been so mainstream that clients, clinicians are really resonating with as an opportunity to say, oh, yeah, this is this is now something that allows for me to connect to this in a way that you might not have understood before.   Soo Jin Lee  30:22 Yes. What is the question in that?   Curt Widhalm  30:25 There is not a question.   Soo Jin Lee  30:30 Okay, yes, for sure. I think if I were to kind of just add to that, yeah. For a lot of clinicians, you can do a lot of research now, on looking at these shows, and being able to bring that into the therapy room, I think being able to talk about some of the mainstream media, that is how they are portraying certain cultures, and how clients they resonate with that or not resonate with that, what the differences are, what were you drawn to, what emotions came out of you from that watching that? Those are really good conversations to have about their family immigration journey, or they're just their own understanding of their, their own cultural backgrounds.   Katie Vernoy  31:14 I want to address a couple of things. I know, we don't have a lot of time, but I want to address a couple of things that you've talked about, because I think they're just so visceral to me. And I think that that element of fear, and dreams are small, and some of these ideas around when you have either an undocumented status, or if your refugee status maybe is at risk, depending on I know, there's a lot of different ways that folks are able to seek refugee status. And I know that there's some folks that have to keep reupping it every, you know, whatever, few years, those types of things. And I think it can be extremely hard to build a life when you don't know if the future is what the future holds. And so maybe a little bit more into that topic, because there's the trauma, of course, and I love how you talked about kind of assessing that and being able to heal that. But I'm a practical person, I'm like, Okay, well, part of our mental health is being able to set a course for our lives and be able to do some of these things. And I know that just doesn't sound like it's completely possible. So maybe if you can talk a little bit about how you walk in that space of finding mental health and wellness, while also knowing that these fears are completely justified. And this temporary status is something that that really does impact folks on a day to day basis.   Soo Jin Lee  32:41 Yeah. So when we talk about how fear interrupts their day to day basis, then we're getting into more of the behavior and the cognition of what what it looks like on their day to day and how it impacts their day to day, right. So if the client is interested in working through their decision making, because the fear is getting in the way of making certain decisions of, for example, let's say should I even accept this college? Because I'm not even sure if I'm going to continue into graduation? Why bother? Right? Now, that's a mindset and a cognition, and that belief system that we can work through, within whatever, you know, therapists modality of choice in order for them to achieve the whatever it is that the client wants to achieve. Is it that they really want to go into college, but the fear is getting getting in the way, right. Another thing, I think, on a very practical level, is just the level of anxiety and the threshold that they're living with on a day to day basis. So then the fear response, and the trauma response comes out in a way where it's oftentimes is insomnia, within their relationships. Right. So those are things that I think, as mental wellness practitioners can really provide the tools for, right on a day to day basis of like, okay, what are you eating? What, how are you sleeping? And are these things that we really should be concerned about? Right.   Katie Vernoy  34:15 And just the the final question that I have is, is about, you're walking this journey yourself. And so I'm thinking about our audience members, who are also undocumented immigrants or folks who are in this space and you've accomplished becoming a therapist and doing those things, but it seems like it's something where there would be some additional things for our health, mental health providers who are in these spaces to be able to take care of themselves and to think about their journey as a therapist. And so kind of the survivor guide element for our our therapists who are, are grappling with being undocumented or being a dreamer.   Soo Jin Lee  34:56 For me, I think I and everyone has their story of why they became a therapist. For me, I became a therapist because of my immigration journey. And that practice of finding myself, my story, my voice, and how to even understand that was the healing journey for me. And I found that through working with others that were telling about their story and was willing to open up their lives, their emotions, their family dynamic issues with me, I think. So oftentimes people find understanding, through relating their stories with others. The theme of what we're talking about today is how we're not being represented enough, that we're not being seen enough, we're not being heard enough, right? In all these different aspects of layers, in the media, in the government, through this whole legal journey. So I think what I want to say is, finding myself was the most healing thing that I could have done for my community at the end.   Katie Vernoy  36:28 I love that.   Curt Widhalm  36:30 Where can people find out more about you and the work that you're doing?   Soo Jin Lee  36:34 So you can find us at yellowchaircollective.com and on Instagram at YellowTreeCollective. We provide individual, family, couples therapy services. But the unique thing that I think we're providing is the cultural specific identity issues. And the support groups that built around those issues. Right, we have a support group, just called the Asian American Experience support group. And although we wanted to make it a little bit of a therapy group, where people can be doing doing a lot of processing, which we do, but we call that a support group, because we realized that a lot of people outside of California were in need of mental health support and community spaces that they couldn't find it within their own states. So that we expanded it to be a support group. That way anyone in the United States can find us and sit in this online space, and hear other people's stories like and connect and relate and find healing and that   Curt Widhalm  37:48 We will include links to all of that in our show notes. You can find those over at mtsgpodcast.com. And follow us on our social media, join our Facebook group, The Modern Therapist group. And let us know your reactions to this episode as well as, especially if you are a therapist with a similar story around being a refugee, immigrant. we would love to continue to elevate voices in our community around that. And until next time, I'm Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy and Soo Jin Lee.   Katie Vernoy  38:26 Thanks again to our sponsor, Turning Point.   Curt Widhalm  38:29 Wanted to tell you a little bit more about our sponsor Turning Point. Turning Point is a financial planning and coaching firm that helps therapists stop worrying about money. Dave at Turning Point will help you navigate every aspect of your financial life from practice financials and personal budgeting to investing taxes and student loans. He will help you move through that feeling of being stuck, frustrated and overwhelmed and arrive at a place where you feel relief, validation, motivation and hope.   Katie Vernoy  38:58 And for listeners of The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide. You'll receive $200 off the price of any service. Just enter promo code 'moderntherapist' and be sure and visit turningpointhq.com and download the free white paper Seven Money Mindset Shifts to Reduce Financial Anxiety. Thanks again to Turning Point.   Curt Widhalm  39:18 This episode is also brought to you by OOTify.   Katie Vernoy  39:22 "OOT" or "uth" (उठ) means "lift up" in the Hindi language. OOTify is a digital health solution that acts as an evidence based hub to unify relevant mental health resources. Community connection and collaboration are critical to OOTify as they lift the mental health care system. They ensure providers are part of the process. OOTify is a platform for providers built by providers and owned by providers. OOTify is a process of lifting up mental health care while lifting each other up.   OOTify  39:54 We need to talk about our mental health. We need to make our mental health stronger so we can withstand the things that happen in our life. We're gonna go through trials and tribulations. But if we can work on our mental health, proactively our wellness, we can handle all that as a community and come together. People are more open to talk about these stories and say, Hey, listen, I'm going through this too. Do be you want to be a part of the solution by joining a new web three community focused on mental health and wellness? Join the OOTify community as an investor or mental health provider by visiting ootify.com/contact. You can also give us a follow on social media to stay tuned on exciting updates.   Announcer  40:35 Thank you for listening to The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide. Learn more about who we are and what we do at mtsgpodcast.com. You can also join us on Facebook and Twitter. And please don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss any of our episodes.

In this week's Interview Classic episode, we jump back five years to PWTorch editor Wade Keller's Apr. 27, 2017 interview with longtime pro wrestling announer Mick Karch regarding newly announced Vince McMahon biopic, the role Hulk Hogan played in McMahon's journey, could the Verne & Greg Gagne have competed with the WWF if Hogan stayed, the place of Curt Hennig in the AWA history as one of the last big stars to headline as champion and whether he had the career he deserved in the WWF. Then an in-depth conversation about indy wrestling and how it's changed over the decades, the attitudes of wrestlers today compared to the 1980s, how fans' expectations at indy shows have changed, and more.

The Lucky Mojo Hoodoo Rootwork Hour is a real, live call-in show where the general public gets a chance to ask about actual problems with love, career, and spiritual protection, and we recommend and fully describe hoodoo rootwork spells to address, ameliorate, and remediate their issues. We begin this show with a Tutorial on Scrying. You will learn a lot just by listening -- but if you sign up at the Lucky Mojo Forum and call in and your call is selected, you will get a free consultation from three of the finest workers in the field, cat yronwode, ConjureMan, and a special guest from AIRR, Jon Saint Germain Sign up before the show to appear as one of our two clients! Post at the Lucky Mojo Forum at: https://forum.luckymojo.com/lmhrhour-free-readings-may-1st-2022-oracle-hour-scrying-t96478.html Then call in at 818-394-8535 and dial '1' to flag our Studio Board Operator that you want to be on the air! We select new client sign-ups first and then call-back sign-ups. Call in just before the show begins and listen via your phone. Message the Announcer or the Studio Board Operator ("Lucky Mojo Curio Company") in chat to let them know you're available.

Adam Jones and Matt McCarthy react to some of the more interesting announcers from day two of the NFL Draft

Holmberg's Morning Sickness - The Entertainment Drill - Friday April 29, 2022

When you cross a finish line and think "Wow, that was the best race announcer ever," well, you get her on the podcast.  As the voice of the Los Angeles Marathon, Philadelphia Marathon, Donna Marathon, Big Sur Marathon, and more, Fitz Koehler brings an incredible kind of energy to the finish line. She has also inspired millions of kids to get active with her wildly successful school running/walking program, The Morning Mile.  We talk with her about her race announcing career, her cancer diagnosis, her book, and much more.  Learn more about Fitz and pick up her book "My Noisy Cancer Comeback: Running at the Mouth, While Running": https://www.fitzness.com/   This episode is sponsored by Inside Tracker, which helps you optimize your body and running, using science and technology to deliver ultra-personalized guidance for your training and health. Drop listeners save 20% on any product (no code necessary): https://www.insidetracker.com/dropin

Philadelphia Flyers public address announcer Lou Nolan comes in studio to talk about how he started with the Flyers, the historic 50th anniversary ceremony, the Broad Street Bullies, the game against the Russians, PECO power play, the Ed Snider culture, current Flyers team, memorable calls, Olympics, and a ton more! Nasty Knuckles is an original show created by co-hosts, Riley Cote and Derek "Nasty" Settlemyre. The show will feature a mix of interviews, never before heard story-telling, hockey-talk, and maybe some pranks... The guys will bring in some of the biggest names in the hockey world all for your enjoyment! Make sure to check back every Wednesday as the guys release a new episode weekly! ► Follow the show on Twitter: https://twitter.com/NastyKnuckles ► Follow Riley Cote on Twitter: https://twitter.com/rileycote32 ► Follow Riley Cote on Instagram: https://instagram.com/rileycote32 ► Follow Derek Settlemyre on Twitter: https://twitter.com/dnastyworld ► Follow Derek Settlemyre on Instagram: https://instagram.com/dnastyworld

The Pawah Town Updaters are back and get going with the major review and giveaways and then discuss last week's follow up (1:45)!  We then have the news segment featuring the POWER TOWN UPDATE (31:17) and follow that up with the Ringside top ten (45:39).  We then get weekly purchases (31:37) and the Major Mark Purchases of the Week (1:15:21).  Next we talk about the Incarnation of Domination for Announcers (1:25:32), and we answer some questions with our Q and A  (1:34:25)!  We finish out the show with Good House Keeping and all our plugs and upcoming events (1:47:31)!This episode is brought to you by Ringside Collectibles ( https://www.ringsidecollectibles.com/ ). Wrestlingfigures.com is your one stop shop for all your wrestling figure needs! Use code major to save 10 percent! SCRATCH THAT FIGURE ITCH!When: Each Friday morningWhere: Wherever you get your podcasts Social Media:Twitter: @MajorWFPod , @TheMattCardona , @Myers_Wrestling, @majorpodnetwork @SilverintuitionInstagram: @MajorWFPod , @TheMattCardona , @Myers_Wrestling, @SmartMarkSterling , @majorpodnetwork

CRY WOLF (B&B Investigations, Case 1) In a world part 1940s film noir and part Grimms, B&B Investigations are hired to clear the name of one "Mr. Wolf", who was allegedly killed after devouring a grandmother...  Written and produced by Julie Hoverson   Cast List Paul Bette - Joel Harvey Donna Bella - Julie Hoverson Captain Oftheguard - Reynaud LeBoeuf Mrs. Wolf - Rhys TM Rumplestiltskin - Philemon Vanderbeck Red - Julia Carson Little Boy Blue - Beverly Poole Portia - Chandra Wade Prince - Mr. Synyster Additional Voices - Cole Hornaday Music:  Buz Hendricks, Somewhere Off Jazz Street (via Jamendo) 19 Nocturne Main Theme:  Kevin McLeod (incompetech.com) Editing and Sound:   Julie Hoverson Cover design:  Front: Brett Coulstock   "What kind of a place is it?  Why it's a private detective's office, can't you tell?" ************************************************ CRY WOLF Cast: Olivia (opening credits) Donna Bella - slumming society dame Paul Bett - roughneck P.I. Mrs. Wolf - distraught widow Red - hot tamale and damsel in dis dress Captain Oftheguard - police investigator Boy Blue - patticake ragamuffin Winky, Blinky, Noddy - sewing Crones Rumpy Stiltskin - snitch Portia - Lawyer from across the pond Prince Officer Sees-Real-Far ANNOUNCER    19 Nocturne Boulevard. CABBIE    Nocturne Boulevard?  Not far.  When you hit Howard, hang a right.  Howard meets Phillip at a weird kind of angle, then you cross James and Poe.  You can't miss Nocturne - it's just past the automat. ANNOUNCER    19 Nocturne Boulevard, your address for suspenseful stories of the speculative, strange, and supernatural.  Tonight's story is called Wolf's Clothing SOUND    KNOCK ON DOOR.  DOOR OPENS. OLIVIA    [sultry voice]  Yes.  This is 19 Nocturne Boulevard, won't you step inside? SOUND    FOOTSTEPS OLIVIA    Did you have any trouble finding it?  What do you mean, what kind of a place is it?  Why, it's a private detective's office, can't you tell? MUSIC    SULTRY NOIR SAX MRS. WOLF    I know he was a beast-- PAUL    Hey! MRS. WOLF    But he was mine.  And now he's dead. DONNA    Seems like a cut and dried case, Mrs. Wolf.  What exactly do you want us to do? MRS. WOLF    They're saying my dear sweet husband Loopy killed this old lady and was taken down by a "good Samaritan" before he could escape.  But he would never do anything like that! VOICEOVER MUSIC BEGINS DONNA    [voiceover]  We'd seen it all before.  But that's what you get in P-I work - more of denial than Egypt in flood season, and more grief than happily ever afters.  Lives are like mirrors - once they're shattered, they can never be quite put back together. PAUL    [voiceover] Mrs. Wolf was a typical criminal's window.  Never willing to admit that the dead beloved might have actually been a predator-- DONNA    [voiceover]  Hey!  This is my voiceover. PAUL    [voiceover]  You said we were going to start splitting them.  And you kept top billing. DONNA    [voiceover]  That's my Paul.  Paul Bette.  Despite his excruciatingly gruff and intimidating exterior, he always has to be the logical one. PAUL    [voiceover]  And that's my Donna.  Donna Bella.  She's a lot more than just a pretty face.  VOICEOVER MUSIC STARTS TO FADE OUT DONNA    [voiceover]  I am right here. PAUL    [voiceover]  Hmph.  Maybe you'll learn something.  Is it my turn now? DONNA    [voiceover]  Nah, let's cut back to the scene. VOICEOVER MUSIC ENDS MRS. WOLF    It's like you're not even listening to me!  DONNA    Sorry.  So your husband was killed in the commission of a crime-- PAUL    Alleged crime.  Alleged commission. MRS. WOLF    Loopy would never do that!  He's always been a good husband and father-- DONNA    Forgive me for asking, Mrs. Wolf, but has he been known to, well, hunt in other pastures? PAUL    That was surprisingly tactful. DONNA    Thank you. MRS. WOLF    You're asking if he ever ran around on me? DONNA    You know, a little howl at the moon?  A little lamb on the side? MRS. WOLF    Well Loopy was no saint-- PAUL    It will help us help you. MRS. WOLF    [Sobs, then grudgingly] Yes. I always knew he was a bit of a dog, but I loved him.  And there were always the cubs to consider. DONNA    Let's get down to the teeth of the matter.  What exactly do you want us to do?  Your husband's killer is no secret - in fact he's all over the papers as a big hero.  "Simple woodcutter saves young girl from fate of devoured gramma."  Story on page 7. MRS. WOLF    It's the insurance.  They're refusing to pay out since he died while committing a crime.  I wouldn't ask if it was just for me, but our pack - well, we'll hardly be able to hold our muzzles up in public. VOICEOVER MUSIC BEGINS     PAUSE DONNA    [voiceover] ... OK, you go. PAUL    [voiceover]  Thank you.  The case was the biggest thing to hit the hot sheets since the disappearance of debutante White last year.  Nothing sparks the interest like someone getting devoured. DONNA    [voiceover] ...And a little heavily implied sex.  The facts were pretty cut and dried.  Red reached gramma's cottage at 10 p.m., only to find the door unlocked and most of the light bulbs unscrewed.  A voice from the bedroom called out for her to come in. VOICEOVER MUSIC CUTS OUT PAUL    We should check and see if Mr. Wolf was known for voice impersonations. DONNA    Noted.  So-- PAUL    [cutting her off] So Red went in to deliver gramma's goodies-- DONNA    [upping the ante] --and didn't realize at first that the person tucked up in bed was not her dear sweet gran-- PAUL    [stealing the punchline, almost breathless] --but a bloodthirsty wolf, dressed in the clothes of the little old lady he had devoured just moments earlier. DONNA    [sigh]  Why didn't she notice?  We need to check on Red's eyesight.  Seems fishy to me.  Could she have been expecting something? PAUL    I've heard some interesting things about Red.  Maybe I should tackle her alone. DONNA    Me too - [catty] I've heard that if her riding hood was a car, it would come with a rumble seat and a convertible roof.  PAUL    [wolfish] They do say she likes to run around with the top down. DONNA    [sweetly]  Well, you go on ahead.  I'll stop in on the Captain and see if I can wiggle loose a copy of the official report. PAUL    Nothing doing!  I know just what kind of wiggling you-- [cut off by music] VOICEOVER MUSIC STARTS DONNA    [voiceover, very satisfied]  So we paid a little call on Red.  Together. PAUL    [voiceover]  Hey!  Let me finish. DONNA    [voiceover]  Tell me on the way. SOUND    CAR DOORS.  CAR DRIVES OFF  CAR ENGINE UNDER PAUL    Bella? DONNA    [romantic-ish] Yes, Paul? PAUL    [musing] What would you do if you walked into, say, my bedroom... DONNA    Oh, Paul? PAUL    [not noticing] And crept up to the burly figure tucked up in bed.... DONNA    [giggles]  Um-hum? PAUL    [still oblivious] and when you got close enough to get a good look, you see-- DONNA    [sultry] What would I see, Paul? PAUL    --A wolf in a nightcap? DONNA    What?  I mean, you're a bit shaggy around the edges, but-- PAUL    Huh?  I was thinking of Red.  What were ... you...? DONNA    [snappish] Teasing.  You're right.  Even if she had to get close before noticing, there's too much chance she'll spot the switch.  That's quite a risk he took. PAUL    Why are you so flushed?  Are you OK? DONNA    Huh?  [covering badly]  Thrill of the chase.  Are we there yet? VOICEOVER MUSIC STARTS DONNA    [whispering]  I think he's - yep - he's gone.  Well, as you might have noticed, my big lug of a partner doesn't seem to know I'm alive - except as a sidekick and a sleuth.  I've heard of girls who want to be loved for their minds, but everything from my neck down was getting lonely.  So I --- Oops, here he--  [clears throat] When we got to Red's address-- PAUL    Did I miss anything? DONNA    Nope!  --the windows of the bungalow were dark and a FOR SALE sign sat in the yard. PAUL    What's ... wrong? DONNA    [snap] Nothing. VOICEOVER MUSIC ENDS SOUND    OUTDOOR NOISES PAUL    No, really. DONNA    Well, there is one thing... [beat]  Why would she sell her house right after her brush with death? PAUL    Bad memories? DONNA    But that would be Gramma's house, wouldn't it? PAUL    So where's Red? CAPTAIN    [off, coming on]  She's staying at the Perrault Hilton - makes it easier to avoid the press. DONNA    [all sweetness, not fake] Captain Oftheguard, what are you doing here? PAUL    [growls] CAPTAIN    I could ask you the same thing.  What's the deal?  This is hardly the most interesting case in town, seeing as we've already got everything handled - one dead killer, one live hero-- PAUL    And one red hot media bombshell.  Getting any good press lately? DONNA    Ssh!  We've been asked to look into a couple things.  You know how insurance companies are.  CAPTAIN    [warning] Look, this case is wrapped up tighter than a ballgown in a walnut, and the last thing I need is you two poking your noses into it and messing it up.  I don't want to see you anywhere near this case, you hear?  I've got a glass mountain just waiting for the first one to get in my way. PAUL    Oh yeah? DONNA    Shh. Bruce-- CAPTAIN    [softening, but stern] Don't Bruce me, Donna.  Why a nice girl like you wants to be a private eye is beyond me.  Call me when you want to go legit. PAUL    [growls] CAPTAIN    Take it up with the king, pal. SOUND    FOOTSTEPS STOMP AWAY DONNA    Why can't you be civil? PAUL    I don't like him.  He treats you like you should be locked in a tower. DONNA    Tsch.  He just-- BOY BLUE    Pardon me, good miss, good sir, have you seen a mangy cur? PAUL    Pfui.  Get away. DONNA    No need to-- PAUL    I hate patticakes. DONNA    If not for them, who'd do all the scut work? Cartoon mice?  Paul, why don't you run along and see if you can talk to Red?  I'll catch a cab late - it's Bee night anyway. PAUL    But--? VOICEOVER MUSIC STARTS DONNA    I have to explain the patticakes, dear.  You'll have plenty of time to get across town. PAUL    [muttering, going off] They come in here, take all the jobs... DONNA    You may have noticed a certain theme to our world.  Well, the patticakes hail from a completely different land. PAUL    [off, yelling]  They don't even speak good English! DONNA    [sigh]  They're stuck in the past, and limited in their abilities, but they do just fine at menial labor, so they get hired under the table by people too cheap or too broke to find someone local.  Luckily, when I was a kid, my nanny was an old woman who lived in a shoe, so I knew the lingo. VOICEOVER MUSIC ENDS PAUL    [yelling, off] And they do stupid things like jump over candle-sticks--  DONNA    [yelling back] It's over! PAUL    [off, not yelling]  Oh. DONNA    [sigh]  Right.  Hmm...  [thinking noises] question - no that's a hard one, little boy blue... wait, no... I've got it!  [to boy]      I've seen no dog, my boy in blue, but I have something to ask you. BOY BLUE    Lovely Lady, kind and fair I'll answer anything I dare! DONNA    Just a moment.  [thinking again, then]      I need to know about Miss Red Or about the wolf that's dead BOY BLUE    The wolf is dead? Oh lackaday! He had me watch his car for pay. DONNA    You mean the wolf came here?  What-- oh! [thinking hard, trying to rhyme]  BOY BLUE    I see the sinking of the sun My mother worries - I must run! SOUND    FOOTSTEPS RUN OFF DONNA    Damn!  But why would Mr. Wolf have come here?  If Red knew him-- VOICEOVER MUSIC CUTS HER OFF DONNA    What? PAUL    I need to muse.  Take a break. DONNA    Are you spying on me? PAUL    [genuinely shocked] No!  I wouldn't-- DONNA    Good.  PAUL    [clears throat] I figured this was as good a time as any to tap my underworld contacts, see if there was any connection between red and the wolf-- DONNA    Don't you dare!  That's my clue! PAUL    Now who's spying? DONNA    I'll go away, but only if you don't follow my clue. PAUL    [growl]  Oh, Done. DONNA    Fine. PAUL    [loudly] Then I decided to tap my underworld contacts to see if the woodcutter had any prior grudge against the wolf-- DONNA    [off] That's better! PAUL    And I figured after that, I could swing by ...Captain ...Oftheguard's... office--  [quietly] Donna?  [waits]  Whew.  [chuckles, then fondly]  She's a real salamander when she gets started.  Look, don't tell her this, [listens again for a second] but, I feel like such a - well, a beast - when I see her and Oftheguard together.  He's an old friend of the family - when her father the big time importer had a few bad business breaks, he helped them keep the wolf from the door, and I always figured it was to get close to her, since her sisters are no prize.  That's how Donna ended up coming to work for me.  Times were tough.  [putting a brave face on it] Now that her father's back in the shipping fast lane, I figure it's just a matter of time before she gets bored with keeping company with a roughneck like me and goes back to her high society friends.  PAUL    [breaking a little]  I don't know how I'll get by without her, but there's no way a gorgeous dame like her could ever be interested in a big hairy brute like yours truly.  And what could I say?  Every time I try and come up with something romantic, all I think of is "will you marry me?" which is bound to be slapped down.  So I make light and pretend I don't see her lovely eyes and shiny red hair... [sigh that's almost a growl]  DONNA    I'm back - miss me? PAUL    I, no, I-- [going off] have to meet a guy. DONNA    I'll never understand him.  [beat]  What?  Oh, fine - [sigh] I got to the bee.  [beat] Why isn't the music ending?  I've arrived.  [beat]  Tsk.  [exasperated sigh]  Grand balls may be the obvious social events of high society, but the sewing bees are the true heart of the old dame's network.  We get together to spin and weave and sew ... and dish.  [calling off]  Good enough? VOICEOVER MUSIC ENDS ABRUPTLY DONNA    [sarcastic]  Thanks.  SOUND    KNOCK ON DOOR WINKY    [muffled] Come in! SOUND    DOOR OPENS, FOOTSTEPS  DONNA    Hey, ladies!  Winky, nice glasses.  Blinky, how's the gout?  Nod - What happened to your hunch? NODDY    [sounding like Marty Feldman] What hunch? DONNA    Huh?  Nevermind.  I brought Pies! THE LADIES    [noises of happy excitement] WINKY    Is this that Pieman friend of yours? DONNA    Might be.  [chuckles]  Never hurts to have pals in low places.  Hey, Tilda's not here?  Did she finally finish those shirts for her seven brothers? BLINKY    All but one sleeve, can you believe it?  No one ever understand how long these things take.  DONNA    I'd'a thought she be here chatting up a storm, just about now. NODDY    She's on her honeymoon, the wench! PAUL    [off, calling]  Enough of this Lifetime moment.  Can I have the narrative for a while?  There's actually something happening over here. DONNA    [loud whisper] Oh, all right, but - where's the-- VOICEOVER MUSIC STARTS HASTILY DONNA and PAUL    Thank you! PAUL    May I? DONNA    [fondly] Brute.  [long sexy sigh, then fading away]  Very well.  PAUL    [lustful growl, then shakes himself out of it]  That woman.  Where was I?  Right.  My best contact, Rumpy - that little weasel - was just coming out of his basement for the night as I rolled up. VOICEOVER MUSIC FADES SOUND    STREET NOISES, FOOTSTEPS PAUL    Hey Rump.  Any straw to gold today? RUMPY    [surprised]  Oh!  Oh, it's you, Bett.  Whadja want? PAUL    Come on old pal!  Can't a guy just look you up for old times sake? RUMPY    You know, and I know, we got no old times, me old son.  Show me the money.  Unless you have, uh, something a bit more round and pink handy? PAUL    No babes today, Rump.  You're old enough, you wouldn't know what to do with one if you did get one.  Right, then.  I want the skinny on the Wolf massacre. RUMPY    Wolf?  I don't seem to recall-- SOUND    CLINK OF HEAVY COINS PAUL    This refresh your memory?  RUMPY    Oh, you mean the Red Riding Hood rescue.  PAUL    I want to know more about the wolf, and I heard you two sometimes ended up at the same watering holes.  What kind of guy was he? RUMPY    [losing the sly undertones]  Truly, I never would have pegged him as a grammavore.  Never saw him touch anything harder than lamb kebobs, if you get my drift.   PAUL    No steak tartare?  No little pigs? RUMPY    Truly, Bett, on my mother's grave.  He was a bit secretive the last few days, though, leering and preening and hinting he had a new lady friend.  Said something about her being real hot stuff.  PAUL    Red hot? RUMPY    [cagey again] Yes... he might have said something like that.  But he did say one thing solid, that I almost recall... SOUND    CLINK OF MORE COINS RUMPY     Ah, yes, it all comes back to me.  He mentioned how she was, um, a bit experimental, in the...  boudoir, so to speak. PAUL    Kinky? RUMPY    To put a bald face on it, yes.  He said she liked him to 'dress up'. VOICEOVER MUSIC DONNA    [after a pause] What, no snappy wrap up? PAUL    Frankly, I'm a little creeped out. DONNA    Oh, all right, let's meet up outside the office. PAUL    Yeah, good. VOICEOVER MUSIC FADES AMBIANCE    STREET NOISES SOUND    HORSE GOES BY QUICKLY, THEN SUDDENLY HOOFBEATS STOP DONNA    [yelling off] Hey!  Just because that thing can fly doesn't mean there isn't a scoop law! PAUL    [very tired]  Morning. DONNA    What happened to you?  Phew - you smell like an elvish cobbler shop. SOUND    FOOTSTEPS ON SIDEWALK, THEY AMBLE OFF TO WORK PAUL    I was tapping rumpy.  [flustered] I mean , I was getting the low-down from my contacts. DONNA    Stiltskin's about as low down as they get... PAUL    You get anything at the Bee? DONNA    Not much.  Neither one sees to have run in our circles.  Seems Gramma didn't get out much, and Red moves in - well, much FASTER circles... PAUL    I see. DONNA    One thing, though.  Rapunzel showed up for a bit - she's legal counsel for the highway board, you know? - and said that SHE'd heard of Gramma‑‑ PRINCE    Halt there!  PAUL    What?  It's too early for-- PRINCE    Unhand that fair maiden! PAUL    Who, her? DONNA    What? PRINCE    Don't worry - I am here to save you!  Take heart, dear lady!  PAUL    Um, fellow-- DONNA    [ramping up] What? PRINCE    This foul beast cannot harm you ever again!  Rescue is at hand! PAUL    Look out, he's gotta sword! PRINCE    Have at!  Hah! DONNA    WHAT! MUSIC STING CAPTAIN    I am disappointed in you.  That poor, poor prince-- PAUL    [muttered] He started it. CAPTAIN     Brawling on the street like a couple of - drunken...  um... drunkards. DONNA    He must be annoyed, he's dropping his similes. CAPTAIN    Shut up!  You'll be lucky if he doesn't press charges!  I'm still trying to decide if I should toss you in a dungeon. DONNA    Huh?  I didn't even break his nose until he brought up Stockholm Syndrome. PAUL    She was very understated. DONNA    Thank you. CAPTAIN    I don't CARE!  I won't have it in my town! PAUL    Look, if it will get him to forgo filing a complaint, tell him he can tell everyone it was me that done him over.  Much less embarrassing to the folks back home. CAPTAIN    [sigh, resigned] Fine.  Get outta here.  I know where to find you. SOUND    CHAIR SCRAPE, FOOTSTEPS, THEN STEPS PAUSE PAUL    One thing, Captain - was there an autopsy on Mr. Wolf? CAPTAIN    Autopsy?  Why would we do that?  It was obvious how he died! PAUL    I was more interested in his stomach contents... CAPTAIN     Besides, after the woodcutter got through with him, there wasn't much cutting left to --  stomach contents? PAUL    Just curious.  We'll get out of your way. SOUND    FOOTSTEPS, DOOR SHUTS DONNA    Think he'll go for it? PAUL    fifty-fifty. DONNA    Is that a bet? VOICEOVER MUSIC PAUL    We decided to speak with the only killer we were sure of - even if he was the hero of the day.  The woodcutter had been mighty quiet.... END VOICEOVER DONNA    That was short and sweet. PAUL    I'm still hung over. DONNA    This is the place. SOUND    KNOCKING ON A DOOR, PAUSE THEN KNOCKING AGAIN PAUL    Uh-oh. DONNA    What? PAUL    In the window. DONNA    [gasp!]  Is he--? PAUL    Well, he could be sleeping.  On the floor.  In a puddle of blood... Here--[effort] SOUND    DOOR BEING FORCED, HIS FOOTSTEPS DONNA    [off, calling] Anything? PAUL    Nothing obvious. DONNA    [off] Check him for combs and poison apples, but be careful, Paul! PAUL    [quiet]  I love it when she worries. DONNA    [off] What? PAUL    Nothing.  [grunts as he rolls him over]  Aha.  Stabbed in the back. DONNA    With what? PAUL    I have an idea...  And look at this! SOUND    HER FOOTSTEPS COME ON DONNA    What is--?  Why would he have one of those? PAUL    Maybe a souvenir from Gramma's house? DONNA    No - she only had one, and the wolf was wearing it when he died. PAUL    Hmm.... DONNA    I'll call Captain Oftheguard-- PAUL    No, we'll need him. DONNA    Need him for what? VOICEOVER MUSIC STARTS PAUL    [importantly] The denouement. DONNA    Are we there already? PAUL    Oh, yes.  [clears throat]  So we rounded up all the unusual suspects - DONNA    There's actually only the one.  Red. PAUL    Oh, well, we got Red and Oftheguard to meet us at Gramma's cottage, a one-room, run-down little affair that had definitely seen better days - three or four kings ago. VOICEOVER MUSIC STOPS DONNA    All present and -- who are you? RED    [VERY SULTRY]  That's my attorney Portia. PORTIA    [VERY BRITISH, acknowledging the intro]  Most noble lady. PAUL    Portia? DONNA    [whispered] I think she's from across the pond. PAUL    [growls, then mutters] First patticakes, now Shakespeareans - what's next?  DONNA    Shh.  Denouement, remember? PAUL    Right.  [pulls himself together]  Daymoo-- [sighs, almost a growl] Denouement.  DONNA    Should I start? RED     Well somebody should. CAPTAIN    We're all here. PAUL    Fine.  We were hired to investigate the circumstances of a violent death-- RED    My Gramma? PAUL    Actually, no.  We're talking about the death of Mr. Wolf, at the hands of a woodcutter. RED    But he was protecting little old me.  That's not murder! DONNA    Stuff it up your riding hood, Red.  Let Paul talk. PAUL    [growls appreciatively]  As I was saying, Wolf's wife, loyal to the end, insisted that while he might have been on the prowl, he wasn't a killer.  And she was right, wasn't she, Captain? CAPTAIN    He?  [grudgingly]  Turns out you're right.  There was no sign of gramma in the wolf's stomach contents. DONNA    Great! CAPTAIN    [defensive]  But there was Gramma - bits - found in his mouth and teeth - so there was no reason for us to look any farther. PAUL    Understandable.  CAPTAIN    The guard is always busy, and understaffed.  DONNA    We're agreeing with you. PAUL    So the wolf was a patsy.  A fall guy.  PORTIA    What, like icarus? DONNA    Don't confuse him. PAUL    And once we rule out who seemed to be the murderer, we have to look at motive.  CAPTAIN    Which is? RED    Yes, enlighten us - If you think I want to own this run-down little rathole, you're sadly mistaken.  It's so old, it might as well have been built out of gingerbread. DONNA    Ah!  Well I found out, from a contact in the D-A's office and highway planning board, that there's been a highway supposed to go through this very spot, but it's been held up in the planning stages, since Gramma didn't want to sell. RED    [gasp] PORTIA    Is there something I should know? SOUND    KNOCK ON THE DOOR CAPTAIN    That will be Officer Sees-Real-Far.  [raising voice] come in! S-R-F    We did what you said sir, and-- CAPTAIN    [lowering his voice] And? S-R-F    [low] out behind the woodshed sir. CAPTAIN    Very good. PORTIA    In the interest of disclosure, sire--[don't forget her best line - the devil is in the details, milord] CAPTAIN    In a bit.  Go on. DONNA    But even if Red had a very good motive - by the way, my contact also said the board bought the land this morning - and for a pretty penny. RED    [petulant] I may be in mourning for my gramma, but business is business. DONNA    Right.  We come to the death of the woodcutter.  Supposedly an innocent bystander, dragged in to the whole mess out of pure chivalry and civic duty. PAUL    Or was he--? RED    What are you implying?  You won't find anyone who saw us together until AFTER the fact. PORTIA    I ought to caution you to remain silent. RED    Why?  I have nothing to hide. PORTIA    Yes, I can tell by your dress. DONNA    Back to the subject.  PAUL    Funny you should mention dresses, there, mouthpiece.  Because the wolf - who also was probably never seen with you, Red, was howling to all his friends about a hot little number‑‑ DONNA    --red-hot-- PAUL    --who was keeping company with him, and how she was a little kinky. RED    Shut up! PAUL    She liked him to dress up-- RED    Tell him I'll sue! PAUL    In an old lady's nightgown. RED    [collapses into tears] DONNA    It started out as part of the plot, didn't it?  Just a way to get him into the nightie before he tucked himself up and waited for you?  PAUL    But you realized it really got your ball rolling.  DONNA    Otherwise, why would we have found this-- SOUND    NIGHTGOWN PULLED OUT OF BAG DONNA    In the woodcutter's bedroom? CAP, RED, POR    [GASP!!] RED    I forgot about that... PAUL    Not hard, since just as you didn't actually kill the wolf, you didn't actually kill the woodcutter either. DONNA    [completely surprised]  She didn't? PAUL    [pleased with himself]  Nope.  Captain, I think you already have that killer in custody. CAPTAIN    [baffled]  I do? DONNA    Come on!  Spill! PAUL    That prince who attacked us on the street, beautiful.  While you were -- CAPTAIN     Causing a disturbance. DONNA    Defending myself. PAUL    Turning into a whirlwind, I happened to notice his sword had a tiny smear of dried blood on it.  It didn't strike me at the time, except that he was pretty careless with his weapon. DONNA    And the woodcutter--? PAUL    When I saw the stab wound in his back, I thought it looked strange - awkward.  Sword's aren't made for that, but they'll do.  I think you'll find, Captain when you do an autopsy on the poor fellow, that it's the same caliber. CAPTAIN    Swords don't have calibers. DONNA    So it's an Ex-caliber? PAUL    [growls]  Size, shape, whatever.  Don't nitpick, this is the big payoff! DONNA    So she vamped him into killing the wolf-- PAUL    Not too hard, a poor but honest woodcutter, and a tamale like that-- DONNA    He must have thought he died and went to heaven. PAUL    And he did, just the other way round. CAPTAIN    So this prince--? DONNA    She must have heard we were onto her. PAUL    And she gave him a sob story and sent him round to take me out. DONNA    Possibly hoping I'd get caught in the crossfire-- um cross sword, um... PAUL    Fray? DONNA    Fray.  Yes. PORTIA    But you still have no proof of any of this.  CAPTAIN    [chuckles] That's where you're wrong, milady. PAUL    Oh? CAPTAIN    My officer just now?  Well, I had some of my boys dig around out back, and guess what they found? RED    Oh No! PORTIA    My client is admitting nothing. CAPTAIN    They found Gramma.  Dead.  Buried under the woodshed.  And I think we're going to find she wasn't killed by wolf, woodcutter or demented prince.  Eh, Red? RED    All right!  I did it!  She was a tiresome senile old biddy who stockpiled newspapers and put food out for the bluebird of happiness!  She had no reason to live, let alone to keep me from my dreams! DONNA    Which are? RED    [unconvincing] Oh, you know - fame fortune, marry a prince. PAUL    Really? RED    [admitting] Ok, so my only dream is to kill her and get a bunch of money, is that so wrong? VOICEOVER MUSIC STARTS DONNA    A nice end to another tough case.  Mrs. Wolf got her insurance money, and the cubs can go to college-- PAUL    Red got her comeuppance, and the prince went into therapy-- DONNA    And the money from the sale of gramma's land went to a distant relation living in a pumpkin shell. PAUL    [grumbling] Patticakes. DONNA    And we-- PAUL    --we got our fee-- DONNA    --and the warm feeling-- PAUL    --of helping someone in need. DONNA    Stop!  Darn it Paul.  I'm tired of this. PAUL    Of what? DONNA    All of this.  Fighting over voiceovers, everything. PAUL    You-- you mean? DONNA    Yes. PAUL    Well, I can't say I wasn't expecting it. DONNA    I've just been holding out to be nice. PAUL    [wilting] Of course. DONNA    So, as of tomorrow-- PAUL    [growly sigh, very small] Yes? DONNA    I want my own damn voiceover music! PAUL    [immensely cheered] Oh! CLOSING OLIVIA    Now that you know how to find us, you'll have to come back.  Maybe next week?  Don't be a stranger - we have enough of those already...

In this week's episode, we will once again be joined with Golden Gate Fields Race Track Announcer Matt Dinerman! We will discuss the big card at GGF on Saturday, featuring the SF Mile! Tweet us: @mikeabadir @3coltshandicap To call the show: 1-866-472-5787

Today I welcome Ken Daniels, play-by-play announcer for the NHL's Detroit Red Wings and father of Jamie Daniels who, on December 7, 2016 at the age of 23, lost his battle with Substance Use Disorder. Ken is here to share the story of his son's life and the legacy created in his memory, the Jamie Daniels Foundation.

Reflections on Content Creation and the Therapy Profession Curt and Katie chat about our principles and philosophies as they relate to the work we do, including podcast creation. We also reflect on the feedback we've received on episodes with large listenership as well as other typical responses we get to the work we do. Considering content creation as part of your business? This isn't a how-to, but it certainly can give you things to consider before you dive in. In this podcast episode we talk about how we put together the podcast We've received a lot of feedback recently about our episodes and we wanted to talk about how we make decisions on what we talk about, who we interview, whether we call folks out on the podcast, and how we edit the episodes. Our Philosophy and Principles for creating content for the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide “We can talk about how to navigate the career, but at some point, we become complicit in a broken system. And so, we've been talking about how to balance: how do we give the tools to navigate what is, and then also give the empowerment and/or the validation that advocacy needs to happen.” – Katie Vernoy How to navigate the career as is (tools and strategies to survive in this field) The importance of advocacy in moving forward with our field How to strategically time advocacy for best effect How we take in feedback and respond Responding to Feedback from our Audience on our “What's New in the DSM-5-TR?” Episode The concern about the Autism diagnosis changes Whether we should have called out Dr. Michael B. First and the impressions of what was said Grappling with the tension between protecting our audience and getting our guests on record and/or advocating for change in the larger systems How people can impact what becomes DSM 6 (and the efforts we are advocating for) The feedback we received and how we sort through it and improve The limits of our capacity Our plans for additional interviews to address the changes “It's been my experience in advocacy, that large systems end up ignoring those individual voices. Those individual voices are incredibly powerful when they're used in the right place at the right time.” – Curt Widhalm A Broader View of the Feedback We Receive on the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide Podcast The depth of the conversation and our ability to deepen conversations with additional episodes Audience members anchoring on the title or episode artwork and not looking at the whole episode when pieces of the content resonate in a different way Our Plan Going Forward with the Podcast Advocacy, information, and focus on the profession Not as much of a focus on business building, money mindset, and side hustles Real conversations about the realities of working in this profession Working to leave the profession better than we find it   Our Generous Sponsors for this episode of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide: Thrizer Thrizer is a new modern billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible AND clinicians should earn what they are worth. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer, you can potentially save them hundreds every month, with no extra work on your end. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer, an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From there, Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursement quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by check, confusion around benefits, and obscurity with reimbursement status, they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It is very quick to get set up and it works great in completement with EHR systems. Their team is super helpful and responsive, and the founder is actually a long-time therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times The best part is you don't need to give up your rate. They charge a standard 3% payment processing fee! Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit on therapy. Sign up using THIS LINK if you want to test Thrizer completely risk free! Sign up for Thrizer with code 'moderntherapists' for 1 month of no credit card fees or payment processing fees! That's right - you will get one month of no payment processing fees, meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time! Melissa Forziat Events & Marketing Today's episode of The Therapy Reimagined podcast is brought to you by Melissa Forziat Events & Marketing. Melissa is a small business marketing expert who specializes in marketing advice for businesses that have limited resources.  Are you looking to boost your reach and get more clients from social media?  Check out the “How to Win at Social Media (even with no budget!)” course from marketing expert, Melissa Forziat. It can be so hard to get engagement on social media or to know what to post to tell the story of your brand.  It can be even harder to get those conversations to turn into new clients. Social media marketing isn't just for businesses that have a ton of money to spend on advertising.  Melissa will work you step-by-step through creating a smart plan that fits within your budget.  How to Win at Social Media is packed full of information. Usually a course as detailed as this would be priced in the thousands, but to make it accessible to small businesses, it is available for only $247.  PLUS, as a listener of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide, you can use promo code THERAPY to get 10% off.  So, if you are ready to go to the next level in your business, click THIS LINK and sign up for the How to Win at Social Media course today! Please note that Therapy Reimagined/The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide Podcast is a paid affiliate for Melissa Forziat Events & Marketing, so we will get a little bit of money in our pockets if you sign up using our link. Thank you in advance!    Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We've pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! The Therapy Reimagined Mission Our Patreon Buy Me A Coffee Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: What's New in the DSM-5-TR? A Living Wage for Prelicensees Mission Driven Work Therapists are Not Robots Why You Shouldn't Sell Out to Better Help Advocacy in the Wake of Looming Healthcare Shortages   Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: www.curtwidhalm.com Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: www.katievernoy.com A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We're working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren't trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don't want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Patreon Buy Me A Coffee Podcast Homepage Therapy Reimagined Homepage Facebook Twitter Instagram YouTube   Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: The Fifty-Minute Hour Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group   Modern Therapist's Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/ Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano https://groomsymusic.com/   Transcript for this episode of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide podcast (Autogenerated):   Curt Widhalm  00:00 This episode of The Modern Therapist Survival Guide is brought to you by Thrizer.   Katie Vernoy  00:03  Thrizer is a modern billing platform for private pay therapists. Their platform automatically gets clients reimbursed by their insurance after every session. Just by billing your clients through Thrizer you can potentially save them hundreds every month with no extra work on your end. The best part is you don't need to give up your rate they charge a standard 3% payment processing fee. By using the link in the show notes you can get a month of billing without processing fees just to test them out for your clients.   Curt Widhalm  00:30 Listen at the end of the episode for more information.   Katie Vernoy  00:34 This episode is also brought to you by Melissa Forziat Events and Marketing   Curt Widhalm  00:39 Melissa Forziat is a small business marketing expert who specializes in marketing advice for businesses that have limited resources, including the very special course How to Win at Social Media, Even with No Budget. Stay tuned to the end of the episode to learn how you can get the most from social media marketing, even with little to no budget.   Announcer  00:59 You're listening to The Modern Therapist Survival Guide where therapists live, breathe and practice as human beings. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, here are your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy.   Curt Widhalm  01:12 Welcome back modern therapists. This is The Modern Therapist Survival Guide. I'm Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy. And this is the podcast for therapists and things that we do the things that we have come up in our field, the ways that we want to spread our messages. And if you're not a therapist, welcome and listen to it from the angle of our intended audience being therapists. Katie is laughing at me because she said that this is an episode where we're not supposed to sound defensive.   Katie Vernoy  01:53 Oh, dear, we're already off track. Thanks, Curt. No, I think this is an episode where you have to be completely transparent like this is this is an episode that we need to do. And I think that there's positive and wonderful things that we need to talk about. And there's some stuff that we might have some feels about to use the language of the young folks today.   Curt Widhalm  02:15 I don't know who you think is the young folks today?   Katie Vernoy  02:19 Fine, fine. Let's move forward.   Curt Widhalm  02:22 All right. We have a lot of new listeners here over the last few months. And we want to thank you for joining us each week. And it's been a while since Katie and I have clarified a lot of things about our podcast, this is maybe an opportunity for some of our new listeners to get to know us in a little bit different way and for our longtime listeners to maybe be able to have a little bit better understanding of what Katie and my process is. And the working title of this episode is. So you want to be a content creator. This is really less of a how to episode and more of a here's the things that have come up in our process that helps us to define how we largely go about things. Now a lot of our listeners who have joined us recently found us through our DSM five episodes, some of our continuing education content. And what we want to do in this episode is kind of talk about what some of the things are that have come up for us as content creators here over the last few months, and how we made some of the decisions that we've made and kind of some of the principles that we do in making our product, something that hopefully all of you enjoy.   Katie Vernoy  03:49 Starting with the principles. I think when we first started and this was way back in 2017, I think the idea was, let's put together a podcast that has conversations that don't typically happen, at least not in public spaces. A lot of therapists, I think, have some of these conversations in the background. But it's not something that is happening in grad school. It's not something that's happening in supervision frequently, and it's kind of the realities, the survival guide tactics of how do we actually navigate this career. And what we've found over the years is that the additional piece is like yeah, we can talk about how to navigate the career but at some point, we become complicit in a broken system. And so we we've been talking about how to balance how do we give the tools to navigate what is and then also give the empowerment and or the validation that advocacy needs to happen. And then each of us can step up in our own ways, whether it's in how we practice individually in our offices, or what we say to our legislators or those kinds of things like how can we advocate true change for our profession, you know, whether it's equity, whether it's pay, whether it's decolonizing, our practices, all of the things that we've wanted to make sure that stay in the forefront, we recognize that it's a hard way to balance because if we completely destroy mental health right now, because it's not working then, there's no mental health. But if we complicitly and complacently stand by and continue to reinforce how it's being done, then we're not making any progress. And so we're trying to walk that line to be able to say, Hey, this is what the profession is, this is how you can navigate it. And this is what we see as a potential future. And let's give you the tools to be able to help us all come together as modern therapists to push towards that new future.   Curt Widhalm  05:45 A lot of what our conversations on the back end have been here over the last month or so has been about a lot of the response that we've had, hearing from some of our audience members directly, following some of the online interpretations and reactions to our DSM-5 update episode where we had Dr. Michael be first as the APA, co author of the DSM-5-TR. And our background conversations between Katie and I have been why did we make the decisions that we made with this particular episode? And how does this fit within a lot of what Katie was just describing as our principals here. And Katie and I have been long involved in a lot of advocacy work, and know that some of the reactions that we've seen the immediate petitions to change the autism diagnostic criteria, based on the information that was presented in that episode, to prevent the DSM-5-TR from having those very changes made. And Katie and my work in advocacy, we knew that that kind of an effort is mis timed, because those books were already published in sitting in warehouses all around the world at that point that understanding some of the advocacy process is very much an important piece of this, that you hear us in a number of our episodes across time talking about advocacy. I don't know that the emphasis on how freaking long things take...   Katie Vernoy  07:33 So long, so long   Curt Widhalm  07:35 ...is something that people tend to forget. And there's oftentimes this very reactionary in the moment sort of thing that happens that people lose their enthusiasm, because then there's a next in the moment sort of thing happens. And this is why our principals are so important to us is because it helps us in deciding not only what we address, but how and importantly, when we address them. And if you want to hear in depth kind of discussion about it. We'll link in our show notes over at MTSG podcast about our efforts several years ago to get a mental health professionals organization to make a statement on paying pre licensed therapists a living wage. This is a long term process sort of thing. And I think that this starts to speak into some of the criticisms that we've been hearing about the DSM-5 episode from some of our audience here.   Katie Vernoy  08:37 The other element that I think is important is being able to go into conversations with reasonable expectations of what's going to happen in the conversation. And so there's the timing of the advocacy, but there's also getting a full picture of what the actual situation is. And I know for me, in interviewing Dr. First, I was expecting a lot more pushback on the questions we actually asked around inclusion around the discussions with folks with lived experience, around the limitations of the diagnoses. And the fact that he was willing to engage in those made me very excited. Now, as we had the conversation. There were a few different things that I was trying to pay attention to. And this is I guess, this goes into kind of editing choices as well as kind of the advocacy element of it. I wanted him on record about kind of what his perspective was, what his process was those kinds of things and I know that there was some language that he used, it was pretty cringy, there was a lot of outdated language, there was a little bit of editing to try to soften that for our audience as kind of a protective measure for our audience. But we couldn't edit out the cringiness of this individual. My concern, and this is something I've grappled with. And I, maybe maybe we would do it differently if we interviewed him again tomorrow. But I wanted to hear all of the pieces. I wanted it all on record. And so there were things that he said that I might have called him out on in person. But recognize that was potentially risking getting the next question answered. And the next question answered. It potentially risked the interview not happening, him not being recorded and on record with the things that he ended up saying. And to me, I felt like there was this really push pull on how do we protect our audience? And how do we move forward with the advocacy that needs to happen around this outdated medical model book that we all have to use?   Curt Widhalm  10:51 I think to that point, this is our protection of our audience, is within the scope of Katie and my principles. And I hope that our principles aligned with a lot of yours. But, you know, being very clear to what Katie said earlier, we are about advancing our profession, we are about better pay, we're about better education. And we incorporate a lot of social justice work within that. And it's very informed by a lot of social justice work. To peel back the curtains a little bit on our process. We do edit our podcasts, we aren't as clear as what our finished product is. We've edited...   Katie Vernoy  11:09 Clearly not.   Curt Widhalm  11:12 ...we edit out ums and coughs, and we allow our guests to be able to say, Hey, I didn't say that correctly, would you edit that back? Let me restate this in another way. And because we develop relationships with a lot of people who come on this podcast, we're very accommodating of that. And in this particular recording, part of what we consider is, is it important to advocate in this particular moment on something that's informative of our principles, and potentially lose the entire interview in the first place, then it becomes Katie and me pissing off one person and not having a podcast, whereas the 1000s of people who have downloaded, listened to, reacted to, made their own commentary, on what was said, is much more important within the advocacy process than us calling out one particular person at one time.   Katie Vernoy  12:44 Yeah.   Curt Widhalm  12:45 We feel that it's a lot more important to be able to hear, again, the very outdated and potentially harmful ideas of people who are in positions of power, much more so than being able to correct them in a moment by moment basis. And this is part of seeing advocacy as a much bigger unfolding process. And I think that a lot of the commentary that we've seen have separated, Katie and me from the comments by Dr. Michael First. But I see that people are also, you know, kind of holding us accountable on this too. And it's very much a stylistic decision. Just because we didn't push back on it doesn't mean that we agree with it. In fact, hopefully, this gives a lot more emphasis to our calls to action that will be coming over the next few months and several years as it leads up to whenever the DSM-6 comes out, of better being able to advocate for who's on these committees and how their processes are because this is information that had that episode just been. Here's the straightforward updates of what's happening. I don't think that would have ever shown up to the light of day.   Katie Vernoy  14:07 Sure. And I think the additional piece, I guess there's more than one piece, but that additional piece to that is I wanted to get to how do people impact this process, and we have him on record talking about that process and how people can take stances and give feedback and all those things. And I also was able to say to him like, hey, yeah, reach out to these lived experience and diagnostic communities to get feedback, like proactively seek it out. And he said, Oh, well, we kind of do that. Actually. That's a good idea. So it's, maybe it's small, but it's still there's things on record that can be used by folks who are advocating with the APA, that who are advocating around some of these changes where it's like, hey, the guy who is running this Committee, said it was a good idea or said this was their process. Here's why this process isn't happening. We need to address it, I mean, I think it's just it's creating a body of evidence. But I do want to go back to kind of our audience and the, and the harmful language. And I want to take that in. I really want to think about that because to me, I, I recognize that there are spots bias, different things that frame what I think is going to be harmful and not harmful. And I and I know we talked about this, Curt, that like the two of us had a larger goal with that that interview. And so I don't want us to lose sight that there were folks who are were harmed by some of the language that Dr. First used. And I'm not sure how to specifically address that. I mean, maybe we put content warnings on on things, you know, I'm not sure. I'm not sure how to do that. I mean, I don't know what what additional thoughts you've had around it, Curt. But I just for me, I feel like there are two things that are happening. And I think we may lean more towards like the let's get stuff done. Let's not worry about the small things in the moment with the larger picture. But for some of the folks that are responding, it didn't feel small, and it wasn't small to them, and it was harmful to them. And I don't know how to I'm gonna be honest, I don't know how to resolve that, given our advocacy efforts and the desire to get someone with that level of power over the next iteration of both the ICD and the DSM on record. And so I'm not sure where to go with that.   Curt Widhalm  16:27 It's been my experience in advocacy, that large systems end up ignoring those individual voices. Those individual voices are incredibly powerful when they're used in the right place at the right time. And it's kind of looking at where our experience is where our tools really are effective in being able to affect these larger systems that when Katie and I have been in congressional offices, when we've been talking to legislators, when we've been talking to professional organizations, those voices, when they're expressed at the right time, are incredibly impactful for humanizing what is happening, working in the macro systems doesn't negate that the micro systems are happening. But for systemic change to happen, we have to address the macro systems in the ways that the macro systems have shown that they can be changed.   Katie Vernoy  17:30 Sure, yeah. And I think that's it goes back to our principles around recognizing that we have to work within if we want to be therapists, right now, we, we must work at least, you know, sufficiently within the system that's created while also trying to disrupt it. And so it's, it's a hard line to walk I know, we're never, we're never going to say we can always do it, right. You know, like we're gonna have times when we we miss judge or miss title. And I think that, that we, you know, when folks have called us out, when we've missed us in the past, we oftentimes do come back and have deeper conversations. And so please keep holding us to account for the things that are happening in the micro system, so to speak. But recognize that you know, that there are times when we may disagree based on the goals we have in the macro system. Does that make sense?   Curt Widhalm  18:20 Yeah.   Katie Vernoy  18:21 Okay.   Curt Widhalm  18:22 And I think that this also speaks to what we noticed as content creators, is some of the accountability that people feel like they're holding us to, are things that we actually already do. It's just that...   Katie Vernoy  18:38 Exactly.   Curt Widhalm  18:39 Now, in the aftermath of the DSM-5 episode, one of the comments that I keep coming back to is a one from a deleted now deleted user on Reddit. The comment says, the interview starts talking about autism around minute 13. It's not an in accessible interview, and that it has no transcript or subtitles, so fuck them for that, too. And then, in this post, several people posted links to the episode where the transcripts already existed in the first place. And one of the things that if you're considering going into content creation, helping you potentially avoid some obstacles and these kinds of things, and being clear about your principles, really does help in that. We've been making things accessible for quite a while.   Katie Vernoy  19:30 And we haven't always but it does, there's a cost involved. And we're doing this for free for the most part, you know, we've we've been able to start getting sponsors at different points. But we're not making a whole bunch of money where we can have fancy solutions. And so we've, we took this feedback that people couldn't find the transcripts. And so we've we've added a little solution, so they're easier to find now, but we are both two therapists, we both have our own practices. We do some consulting but like this is not our full time job. And so we're trying, I guess maybe this is where I'm sounding defensive, I'm not trying to, but like, we're doing the best that we can. But I think, to me, when I hear this, I see something where we're trying to make a difference. You know, we're trying to do some stuff to bring some things to light to move things forward. And we're not going to always get it right. But we are a way easier target to get mad at than the large system. So don't wait like don't waste your your energy on calling us out for stuff like not having transcript because we actually do, like use that energy towards the actual change you want and not on two random podcasters.   Curt Widhalm  20:40 And we got several comments in the first week, after directing, you know, emphasis towards are we going to have follow up episodes about the changes in the DSM, we will, it takes some turnaround time for us, especially on something that that book wasn't even available for three weeks after the podcast aired, which was nearly a month after we made the interview, to Katie's point of we're two podcasters. If you want us to be able to do more, here's our pitch to join our Patreon and make it to where we can have a full time job doing this kind of stuff. But in the meantime, our turnaround and response times is sometimes very much around what we're capable of doing around our regular day to day practices and families and all of that kind of stuff. In the past, we've been sometimes able to turn things around literally overnight. That's not something that can necessarily be relied upon, in this particular space for us and until you join our Patreon and wonderful things. It's something we're we absolutely do do our best. It's that we're in a slow moving profession too. Nothing about you know, really anything is going to be best addressed by a podcast on something that needs to happen in an extremely timely manner.   Katie Vernoy  22:13 Sure, and I think to expand out kind of what we're doing as our follow on to the DSM-5 updates is that we've been reaching out to folks in the Autistic community in the grief community in the trans and gender nonconforming community. And as well as people in the trauma community to be able to have in depth conversations with folks with lived experience around, for example, with the Autistic community, we want someone that can talk with us about the diagnosis stuff that's going on to DSM-5-TR but also self diagnosis and, and those types of things. So we can really have a conversation with someone that's living it versus us saying like, yeah, we disagree, you know, or, or we agree with this part, but not that part. I mean, like, we have our own opinions, and we'll share them. But we don't want to be the only voices speaking to this. And it takes time to be able to identify the people or persons, the person or persons that people are people. Yeah, I don't know, to find the right, the right folks to be able to have the real conversation that we need to have, as we've continued forward and our audiences grow we've found it even more important not to just say, like, hey, our friends, so and so is in this community, let's reach out to them, but actually saying like, Who is the person that is making the most noise that has the biggest audience who can actually make a difference in this space, let's amplify that voice on the podcast and whatever way that we can. And so we're still learning, we're still growing. And we don't, we can't... People are not popping on the podcast immediately. Like, everybody's got schedule issues. And and we're we're wanting to have a great conversation versus a fast conversation.   Curt Widhalm  23:51 And, you know, this is hopefully where some of the people that we are reaching out to at this point, we'll be able to build and combine our efforts of this community. And their's to elevate some of this stuff. And hopefully, as we get those things organized and recorded in the upcoming months that you'll be able to see that. So here's also your reminder to subscribe and not miss any of our content. One of the other things within this process, though, is also the way that people have anchored on to very slight aspects of the content that we put out whether it's a specific comment within a larger, longer format, whether it's wanting deeper, more informative things out of what is relatively a smaller format, and what I mean by that is, we also try to make our episodes 30 ish minutes. We sometimes wax poetic most of our episodes, I think ended up around 40 minutes or so but it's an incredibly weird balance. Of people on one hand can take one very, very small piece of what is happening in an episode and make assumptions about the rest of the content or ignore the rest of the content based on that, or on the other hand, we've also had some criticisms of, we don't go deep enough and 30 minutes when it's two or three or four voices, depending on how many people that we have on a particular episode. That goes by very, very fast.   Katie Vernoy  25:30 What and when especially the one that said we didn't go deep enough, I mean, we did respond with like two or three more episodes to discuss the nuance of what was was being asked for. I think, to me, the thing that makes sense, and I want to take full ownership of this, because oftentimes, I'm the one that's titling the episode. And sometimes we're, we're framing the episode in a particular way, because we think that's what's most compelling. And that seems to be another thing that folks will anchor on. And if I've titled without thought, you know, to a specific element, or it's been framed in a certain way, I think folks have difficulty looking at the whole piece. And so I wanted to, I want to say, I have very much been trying to be thoughtful about titles so that people will get a sense of what's actually on the episode. But there's definitely times when people have have responded to the title only, and either decided they would not listen to the episode because the title was not one that they liked. Or they framed the whole episode based on that title and their interpretation of the title. And so I'm working on it, folks, I'm trying to get better Curt usually helps. But like sometimes we're you know, we divide and conquer, so to speak, he does more editing, I do more of the show notes and episode artwork. And so this is a two to four person, maybe five person, little enterprise here. And none of us do this only, like we all have other stuff going on. And so and even life stuff, like we talked about a couple weeks ago, can get in the way of us being able to do stuff, but like, we recognize that sometimes something resonates, and it's hard to look at the whole piece. But before, before taking too drastic an action like giving us a really bad review. Or blasting us on social like try to listen it to it as a holistic piece if you can.   Curt Widhalm  27:28 And it does help and we do respond. She can email Maggie over at podcast@therapyreimagined.com with feedback about stuff and she's not Katie or myself. She's a very wonderful part of our team that, be nice to Maggie. But...   Katie Vernoy  27:43 Yes, please be nice to Maggie.   Curt Widhalm  27:45 But I think it helps to, once again, just kind of clarify the things that we do. It's The Modern Therapist Survival Guide, we want to encourage and help each of you along your journey, and be able to provide some guidance or put some things within perspective or advocate for some things. It's why we've really started moving away from some of the more coachy aspects of our content. We've done some in the past and part of keeping conversations going is not having the same conversations over and over again. And while we're hesitant to say we're never going to have a coach on here, again, or something like that, we do have a back catalogue with plenty of people to talk to you about how to set up a practice. There are plenty of other podcasts who can have that same conversation over and over again. And that's a great space for them to be in. It's not where our space is. Our space is about advocacy, it's talking about the things that are affecting our practices, it's being able to provide timely, hey, here's your surprise, here's the no surprises act, it's it's being able to help channel some of the energy and emphasis of the conversations that we're having to make change, it's being able to take the action steps. If you want cheerleaders of here's how you go and set up your office. Great, not us.   Katie Vernoy  29:30 I think there's like you said there's a lot of back catalogue stuff that has business building and practice building and I am also hesitant to say we won't have a coach on I think the the difference that we want to bring to it is that we want to get into the stuff that's not polished. We want the real conversations, we want this stuff that goes into what it's really like to be a therapist now what it really is to be able to do work and have a private practice and...   Curt Widhalm  30:04 Or work in community mental health. And...   Katie Vernoy  30:07 ...well, let me finish my my thought here just really quickly, but like to be able to compete when there's disruptors in the space like BetterHelp, and all of the tech companies that are coming in and dominating the space, to work in community mental health and identify a pathway forward, to have a sustainable career, if that's where you decide to be. I mean, like, there's, there's a lot that is in there, that's not, here are the five steps on how you market your practice. Now, we certainly have episodes like that. But I think, to me, it's more about the reality of the therapist, as a person and a professional. Not, this is how you build your practice. So I don't think we're going to avoid those topics. It's more that we're not going to have the same conversation over and over again, about money mindset, and how you avoid burnout. And how you start a side hustle like, we have those episodes, you can go back and look at them. But we're not going to keep having that conversation over and over again.   Curt Widhalm  31:06 And what we are going to have is, here's the updates as they're coming along in the field. Here's amplifying voices from marginalized communities, whether it's therapists, whether it's the systemic barriers that continue to cause mental health problems, whether it's the systemic barriers to having an appropriate mental health workforce on both an individual and a national and universal level, that at its core, this is a podcast about being able to leave our field in a better place than where it was when we started. And that is going to be an ever evolving conversation. And we're thankful that you're holding us accountable in this process, we just really want to make sure that we're all on the same page so we can actually take these things and make them into change.   Katie Vernoy  32:06 I think that's where we finished. That's a good place to stop. Thanks, Curt.   Curt Widhalm  32:11 We talked about a number of our episodes in the show notes, you can find those at MTSGpodcast.com, as well as all of our back catalogue and we did make some references to Patreon and you can also support us on Buy me a Coffee and very awesome thank you to those people who are patrons and coffee buyers. And until next time, I'm Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy.   Katie Vernoy  32:39 Thanks again to our sponsor, Thrizer.   Curt Widhalm  32:42 Thrizer is a new billing platform for therapists that was built on the belief that therapy should be accessible and clinicians should earn what they're worth. Every time you bill a client through Thrizer an insurance claim is automatically generated and sent directly to the client's insurance. From their Thrizer provides concierge support to ensure clients get their reimbursements quickly, directly into their bank account. By eliminating reimbursement by cheque, confusion around benefits and obscurity with reimbursement status they allow your clients to focus on what actually matters rather than worrying about their money. It's very quick to get set up and it works great in complement with EHR systems.   Katie Vernoy  33:21 Their team is super helpful and responsive and the founder is actually a long term therapy client who grew frustrated with his reimbursement times. Thrizer lets you become more accessible while remaining in complete control of your practice. A better experience for your clients during therapy means higher retention. Money won't be the reason they quit therapy. If you want to test Thrizer completely risk free our very special link is bit.ly/moderntherapists, you sign up for thrice or with the code 'moderntherapists' you will get one month of no payment processing fees meaning you earn 100% of your cash rate during that time.   Curt Widhalm  33:56 This episode is also brought to you by Melissa Forziat Events and Marketing.   Katie Vernoy  34:01 Are you looking to boost your reach and get more clients from social media? Check out the How to Win at Social Media, Even with No Budget course from marketing expert Melissa Forziat. It can be so hard to get engagement on social media or to know what to post to tell the story of your brand. It can be even harder to get those conversations to turn into new clients. Social media marketing isn't just for businesses that have a ton of money to spend on advertising. Melissa will work you step by step through creating a smart plan that fits within your budget.   Curt Widhalm  34:30 How to Win at Social Media is packed full of information. Usually a course as detailed as this would be priced in the 1000s. But to make it accessible to small businesses, it is available for only $247. Plus as a listener of The Modern Therapist Survival Guide. You can use the promo code 'therapy' to get 10% off. If you are ready to go to the next level in your business. Click the link in our show notes over at MTSGpodcast.com. And sign that for the How to Win at Social Media course today.   Announcer  35:04 Thank you for listening to The Modern Therapist Survival Guide. Learn more about who we are and what we do at MTSGpodcast.com. You can also join us on Facebook and Twitter. And please don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss any of our episodes.

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