Podcast appearances and mentions of Booker Prize

Sir Salman Rushdie is a writer who has written over 20 books, seven of which have been nominated for the Booker Prize. In 1981 he won with his novel Midnight's Children which also topped the polls for the 25th and 40th anniversaries of the prize, making it the most lauded novel in Booker history.He was born in Bombay in 1947 and educated at Rugby School in Warwickshire. After studying history at the University of Cambridge he worked as a copywriter at various advertising agencies before publishing his first novel Grimus in 1975. His breakthrough came with Midnight's Children and he was one of 20 writers named on Granta magazine's inaugural list of Best Young British novelists alongside writers including Martin Amis and AN Wilson.He attracted considerable controversy with his fourth novel the Satanic Verses which won the Whitbread Award and was shortlisted for the Booker. Some Muslims considered the subject matter blasphemous and Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwa calling for the death of Salman and the publishers of the book. Salman spent the following decade in hiding under police protection.In 2022 he was stabbed multiple times while on stage at the Chautauqua Institution in upstate New York. He had been invited there to talk about keeping writers safe from harm. He survived devasting injuries – including the loss of his right eye – and wrote about the attack and its aftermath in his memoir Knife.That same year he was awarded a Companion of Honour for services to literature.Salman is married to the poet and novelist Rachel Eliza Griffiths and they live in New York. He has two grown up sons and two grandchildren.DISC ONE: Walk on the Wild Side - Lou Reed DISC TWO: Yeh Hai Bombay Meri Jaan - Mohammed Rafi and Geeta Dutt DISC THREE: Blowin' in the Wind - Bob Dylan DISC FOUR: (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction - The Rolling Stones DISC FIVE: I Wanna Dance with Somebody (Who Loves Me) - Whitney Houston DISC SIX: Me and Julio Down by the Schoolyard - Paul Simon DISC SEVEN: Isn't She Lovely – Stevie Wonder DISC EIGHT: For the Love of You, Pts. 1 & 2 - The Isley Brothers BOOK CHOICE: Homer's Odyssey (Translated by Emily Wilson) LUXURY ITEM: A bed with a mosquito net CASTAWAY'S FAVOURITE: For the Love of You, Pts. 1 & 2 - The Isley Brothers Presenter Lauren Laverne Producer Paula McGinley

David Szalay wurde in Montreal geboren, wuchs in London auf und lebt in Wien. Seine Bücher erzählen von globalisierten Schicksalen. Für „Was nicht gesagt werden kann“ erhielt Szalay nun den Booker Prize. Weihnachtstipp von Christoph Schröder

Hannah Murray will start by looking at the bestseller lists on Amazon.co.uk and The Sunday Times, the oldest and most influential book sales chart in the UK, and seeing what new entries there are. Guy Lloyd is the International Sales Manager at Penguin Random House, and joins us once a month to talk all things books. Among other things, this month he's talking about the recently announced Booker Prize Winner, the Baillie Gifford Non-Fiction Prize, plans for a Children's Booker Prize, and actor Stephen Graham's new book project.  Antony Johnston's career has spanned books, award-winning video games and graphic novels, including collaborations with Anthony Horowitz and Alan Moore. He wrote the New York Times bestseller Daredevil Season One for Marvel Comics, and is the creator of Atomic Blonde, which grossed over $100 million at the box office. 'The Dog Sitter Detective's Christmas Tail' is book 4 in his canine cosy crime series about Gwinny Tuffel, who spends her time between dog sitting and sleuthing. There is a new dog of a different breed at the heart of every story, on this occasion, a cocker spaniel.  David Everard has been a consultant physician, the Deputy Head of the UK Medical Research Council, a Special Advisor to the International Agency for Research on Cancer, and a Trustee of Macmillan Cancer Support.  'The Long Shadows of War' is historical fiction inspired by David's father's wartime service.  ... Ed Needham is the Editor of Strong Words Magazine. He joins us monthly to review a selection of new Fiction and Non Fiction titles, which this week includes Ian McEwan's new novel What We Can Know.  JL Spears is a software engineer and author with over 25 years of experience in the technology industry. He crafts stories that bridge the gap between technology and humanity, exploring the profound ways innovation shapes our world and future. 'Daemon Protocol' is an AI thriller that captures the possibilities and the threat of unlimited AI with a clever plot, authentic details and a glimmer of hope.  Keith Campion is a primary school teacher from Cheshire. His debut book 'The Last Post' has been used widely in schools for English and History lessons and was adapted into a touring theatre production. 'Rock the World' is a poignant novel inspired by Ryan White's courageous battle with AIDS. It's also a dive into the vibrant 1980s music scene Adam Baron is the author of five successful novels for adults. He wrote his first book for young readers, 'Boy Underwater' because his children told him to. It went on to be a Waterstones Children's Book of the Month, and was nominated for the Carnegie Medal. 'The Very Last Christmas Present' is his latest book, illustrated by Benji Davies. It's about a small pup on a VERY big Christmas adventure!

On this week's show, Dana and Steve are joined by guest host Rebecca Onion for a Gabfest first: a segment about something from the sprawling Taylor Sheridan television universe. They strap on their cowboy boots and hop in the pickup for a conversation on season 2 of Landman which stars a rangy and world-weary Billy Bob Thornton as an oil industry fixer. Next, they turn north of the border for some good, old fashioned, Canadian gay hockey romance. They discuss HBO's surprise—and surprisingly graphic—hit Heated Rivalry. The series sure is steamy, but does it feature enough hockey?  Finally, they mourn the passing of legendary filmmaker and Hollywood omnipresence Rob Reiner. They share their favorite moments from his films. Given those films include Stand By Me, When Harry Met Sally, Misery, The Princess Bride, and many more indelible classics, there's much to share. Endorsements Rebecca: The podcast Posting Through It featuring hosts Jared Holt and Michael Edison Hayden discussing the ins and outs of rightwing infighting and the recipe Holiday Rocky Road by Sohla el-Waylly in New York Times Cooking. Steve: For more melancholic Christmas music, Duke Ellington's Nutcracker Suite. Also, the Booker Prize short-listed novel The Rest of Our Lives by Ben Markovits, who Steve will be in conversation with at an event on January 5, 2026 at the Upper West Side Barnes & Noble— details here. Dana: The Rob Reiner-directed documentary Defending My Life about his childhood friend Albert Brooks and this brilliant clip of Rob Reiner at his 2000 Friar's Club Roast reading from Roger Ebert's legendary pan of Reiner's film North . Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fashion icon Bella Freud on abandoning psychics, learning to trust herself and realising that what happens next is entirely up to her. Freud is a designer and creative whose clothes have adorned the likes of Zadie Smith, Kate Moss, Little Simz and…well…me. She's also a cult podcaster with her hit show, Fashion Neurosis, where guests are invited to examine what clothes mean to them. She's lived a fascinating life: the daughter of Lucian Freud, the great-granddaughter of psychoanalyst Sigmund and the sister of novelist Esther who wrote the novel Hideous Kinky about their childhood. Now in her 60s, she joins me to explore why she's always late, why she regrets never joining the circus and what it's really like carrying the weight of such an instantly recognisable family name. Plus: why she no longer goes to psychics. Bella is so smart, considered and stylish. This free-ranging conversation will make you think, laugh and feel unexpectedly hopeful about getting older. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 00:00 Introduction 04:04 The Power of Fashion and Design 06:47 Challenges in the Fashion Industry 11:52 The Significance of Punctuality 17:02 Childhood Memories and Their Impact 22:18 Therapy and Family Loss 26:13 Reflecting on a Peaceful Passing 27:43 Family Dynamics 30:04 The Circus Job That Never Was 32:33 Sibling Relationships and Childhood Roles 36:06 The Legacy of the Freud Name 41:23 Embracing Failures and Life Lessons 46:28 Living Authentically and Joyfully

On this week's show, Dana and Steve are joined by guest host Rebecca Onion for a Gabfest first: a segment about something from the sprawling Taylor Sheridan television universe. They strap on their cowboy boots and hop in the pickup for a conversation on season 2 of Landman which stars a rangy and world-weary Billy Bob Thornton as an oil industry fixer. Next, they turn north of the border for some good, old fashioned, Canadian gay hockey romance. They discuss HBO's surprise—and surprisingly graphic—hit Heated Rivalry. The series sure is steamy, but does it feature enough hockey?  Finally, they mourn the passing of legendary filmmaker and Hollywood omnipresence Rob Reiner. They share their favorite moments from his films. Given those films include Stand By Me, When Harry Met Sally, Misery, The Princess Bride, and many more indelible classics, there's much to share. Endorsements Rebecca: The podcast Posting Through It featuring hosts Jared Holt and Michael Edison Hayden discussing the ins and outs of rightwing infighting and the recipe Holiday Rocky Road by Sohla el-Waylly in New York Times Cooking. Steve: For more melancholic Christmas music, Duke Ellington's Nutcracker Suite. Also, the Booker Prize short-listed novel The Rest of Our Lives by Ben Markovits, who Steve will be in conversation with at an event on January 5, 2026 at the Upper West Side Barnes & Noble— details here. Dana: The Rob Reiner-directed documentary Defending My Life about his childhood friend Albert Brooks and this brilliant clip of Rob Reiner at his 2000 Friar's Club Roast reading from Roger Ebert's legendary pan of Reiner's film North . Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Cult American filmmaker Paul Thomas Anderson on One Battle After Another, in which Leonardo DiCaprio leads an action thriller about a washed-up radical living off-grid with his spirited young daughter, who goes missing. Plus, Brisbane-born Hollywood star Jacob Elordi fronts Justin Kurzel's TV adaptation of Richard Flanagan's Booker Prize-winning novel The Narrow Road to the Deep North.

Cult American filmmaker Paul Thomas Anderson on One Battle After Another, in which Leonardo DiCaprio leads an action thriller about a washed-up radical living off-grid with his spirited young daughter, who goes missing. Plus, Brisbane-born Hollywood star Jacob Elordi fronts Justin Kurzel's TV adaptation of Richard Flanagan's Booker Prize-winning novel The Narrow Road to the Deep North.

Booker Prize winning author - Marlon James joins Afua and Peter to tear open Jane Austen's world — from slavery shadows to savage social critique — and reveal why her novels still cut like a knife.Stay connected with LegacyFollow us for clips, behind-the-scenes stories, and new episode drops:Instagram: @originallegacypodcast | BlueSky: @legacy-productions.bsky.social | TikTok: @legacy_productionsExplore more from Peter and Afua — essays, sources, and ideas: Substack: peterfrankopan.substack.com | afuahirsch.substack.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Gleich zwei grosse Namen vereinigt dieses BuchZeichen eine gute Woche vor Weihnachten: Den des aktuellen Booker Prize-Träges David Szalay und den der britischen Literaturikone Jane Austen. Vor einem Monat gewann der 51jährige kanadisch-ungarisch-britische Autor David Szalay den Booker Prize. Es ist der wichtigste britische Literaturpreis, und Szalay bekam ihn für ein Buch, das im Original den provozierenden Titel «Flesh» (menschliches Fleisch) trägt und von einem vermurksten Männerleben erzählt. Der deutsche Titel, «Was nicht gesagt werden kann», trifft es aber auch. Szalays Held ist ein Mann ohne Worte. Er ist eine Leerstelle und eine Projektionsfläche, insbesondere für die Frauen. Sein Lone-Wolf-Gebaren gefällt ihnen – bis sie ihn wieder loshaben wollen. Schillernd und schroff erzählt David Szalay davon, was es heissen kann, ein Mann zu sein. Ihre Romane wie «Stolz und Vorurteil», «Emma» oder «Überredung» haben sich in den literarischen Kanon und auch in die Herzen vieler Lesenden eingeschrieben. Doch Jane Austens Leben war nicht ganz so rosig, wie die Happy Ends ihrer Bücher. Sie blieb bis zu ihrem frühen Tod unverheiratet und kämpfte um Anerkennung für ihr Schreiben. Die Graphic Novel von Austen-Expertin Janine Barchas, illustriert von Isabel Greenberg bietet einen einzigartigen Einblick in Austens Biografie. Wir lernen, wo Austen auf Gegenwind traf, wo sie Inspiration fand und wo ihre Unterstützerinnen. leichter Einstieg für angehende Austen-Fans und ein Muss für Austen-Begeisterte meint Ariane Schwob. Buchhinweise: David Szalay. Was nicht gesagt werden kann. Aus dem Englischen von Henning Ahrens. 384 Seiten. Classen, 2025. Janine Barchas und Isabel Greenberg. Jane Austen. Ihr Leben als Graphic Novel. Aus dem Englischen von Eva Bonné. 144 Seiten. Penguin, 2025.

Winnaar van de Booker Prize 2025. Uitgegeven door Nijgh & Van Ditmar Spreker: Louis van Beek

David Szalay's award-winning novel, "Flesh," follows the life of one Hungarian man from adolescence to old age. And it manages to do a lot with precious few words.

Mother Mary Comes to Me by Arundhati Roy. This is by the author of the Booker Prize winning The God of Small Things - about her life growing up in India, the forces that shaped her, and particularly her very difficult relationship with her mother, Mary, who is always referred to in the book as Mrs Roy. Mrs Roy was a formidable force of nature and in trying to make sense of the dynamic between them, and to find her own way in the world, Arundhati has written a deeply moving, entertaining and profound memoir. How to Say Babylon by Safiya Sinclair. The author grew up in Jamaica where her father was a radical Rastafarian and was paranoid about keeping his daughters away from the secular world which they referred to as Babylon. Safiya's childhood was often brutal, peripatetic and poor but she had the soul of a poet and the dream to eventually become one. It's an extraordinary and deeply moving memoir – how one young woman eventually found the courage to stand up to her father and became the woman she never thought she could be. Anyone who read Educated and loved it will love this. The Breath of the Gods by Simon Winchester: A remarkable exploration of our atmosphere, and the role played in our lives by wind – which can be both benign and malevolent. It's a fascinating story told through history, literature, science, poetry and engineering – and includes a piece on our own Wahine disaster. Simon Winchester has an ability to make the everyday and apparently mundane, extraordinary. The Hollows Boys by Peta Carey. The story of the three Hollows brothers Gary, Mark and Kim, who were pivotal in the helicopter deer recovery era in Fjordland in the 1970s which was a dangerous and unregulated time. Gary Hollows died (as did many others) and the pain of that is still felt keenly today, more than 40 years on. The work they did against the backdrop of such a beautiful part of the country is jaw dropping, with high deer tallies helping keep that population down (and thereby protecting the environment), lots of money sloshing around and amazing stories of real derring do by a group of extraordinarily brave and reckless men who lived by their own rules. Mana by Tame Iti. The deeply personal account of the life of one of our greatest rebels and radicals who grew up being forbidden to speak te reo and became one of its biggest advocates (amongst many other causes). He's lived much of his life in the public eye, going from bad boy status to that of a national treasure and the journey is well documented in this beautiful and thoughtful book. It's a lovely production and includes lots of photographs, including some of his own artwork. LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Booker Prize-winning writer, John Banville, screen and stage actor, Clelia Murphy and former Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar joined Brendan with books, old and new, that they would gift someone this Christmas.

Tuesday is the 250th anniversary of Jane Austen's birth, so today I spoke to John Mullan, professor of English Literature at UCL, author of What Matters in Jane Austen. John and I talked about how Austen's fiction would have developed if she had not died young, the innovations of Persuasion, wealth inequality in Austen, slavery and theatricals in Mansfield Park, as well as Iris Murdoch, A.S. Byatt, Patricia Beer, the Dunciad, and the Booker Prize. This was an excellent episode. My thanks to John!TranscriptHenry Oliver (00:00)Today, I am talking to John Mullen. John is a professor of English literature at University College London, and he is the author of many splendid books, including How Novels Work and the Artful Dickens. I recommend the Artful Dickens to you all. But today we are talking about Jane Austen because it's going to be her birthday in a couple of days. And John wrote What Matters in Jane Austen, which is another book I recommend to you all. John, welcome.John Mullan (00:51)It's great to be here.Henry Oliver (00:53)What do you think would have happened to Austin's fiction if she had not died young?John Mullan (00:58)Ha ha! I've been waiting all this year to be asked that question from somebody truly perspicacious. ⁓ Because it's a question I often answer even though I'm not asked it, because it's a very interesting one, I think. And also, I think it's a bit, it's answerable a little bit because there was a certain trajectory to her career. I think it's very difficult to imagine what she would have written.John Mullan (01:28)But I think there are two things which are almost certain. The first is that she would have gone on writing and that she would have written a deal more novels. And then even the possibility that there has been in the past of her being overlooked or neglected would have been closed. ⁓ And secondly, and perhaps more significantly for her, I think she would have become well known.in her own lifetime. you know, partly that's because she was already being outed, as it were, you know, of course, as ⁓ you'll know, Henry, you know, she published all the novels that were published in her lifetime were published anonymously. So even people who were who were following her career and who bought a novel like Mansfield Park, which said on the title page by the author of Sense and Sensibility and Pride and Prejudice, they knew they knew.John Mullan (02:26)were getting something by the same author, they wouldn't necessarily have known the author's name and I think that would have become, as it did with other authors who began anonymously, that would have disappeared and she would have become something of a literary celebrity I would suggest and then she would have met other authors and she'd have been invited to some London literary parties in effect and I think that would have been very interesting how that might have changed her writing.John Mullan (02:54)if it would have changed her writing as well as her life. She, like everybody else, would have met Coleridge. ⁓ I think that would have happened. She would have become a name in her own lifetime and that would have meant that her partial disappearance, I think, from sort of public consciousness in the 19th century wouldn't have happened.Henry Oliver (03:17)It's interesting to think, you know, if she had been, depending on how old she would have been, could she have read the Pickwick papers? How would she have reacted to that? Yes. Yeah. Nope.John Mullan (03:24)Ha ha ha ha ha!Yes, she would have been in her 60s, but that's not so old, speaking of somebody in their 60s. ⁓ Yes, it's a very interesting notion, isn't it? I mean, there would have been other things which happened after her premature demise, which she might have responded to. I think particularly there was a terrific fashion for before Dickens came along in the 1830s, there was a terrific fashion in the 1820s for what were called silver fork novels, which were novels of sort of high life of kind of the kind of people who knew Byron, but I mean as fictional characters. And we don't read them anymore, but they were they were quite sort of high quality, glossy products and people loved them. And I'm I like to think she might have reacted to that with her sort of with her disdain, think, her witty disdain for all aristocrats. know, nobody with a title is really any good in her novels, are they? And, you know, the nearest you get is Mr. Darcy, who is an Earl's nephew. And that's more of a problem for him than almost anything else. ⁓ She would surely have responded satirically to that fashion.Henry Oliver (04:28)Hahaha.Yes, and then we might have had a Hazlitt essay about her as well, which would have been all these lost gems. Yes. Are there ways in which persuasion was innovative that Emma was not?John Mullan (04:58)Yes, yes, yes, yes. I know, I know.⁓ gosh, all right, you're homing in on the real tricky ones. Okay, okay. ⁓ That Emma was not. Yes, I think so. I think it took, in its method, it took further what she had done in Emma.Henry Oliver (05:14)Ha ha.This is your exam today,John Mullan (05:36)which is that method of kind of we inhabit the consciousness of a character. And I I think of Jane Austen as a writer who is always reacting to her own last novel, as it were. And I think, you know, probably the Beatles were like that or Mozart was like that. think, you know, great artists often are like that, that at a certain stage, if what they're doing is so different from what everybody else has done before,they stop being influenced by anybody else. They just influence themselves. And so I think after Emma, Jane Austen had this extraordinary ⁓ method she perfected in that novel, this free indirect style of a third-person narration, which is filtered through the consciousness of a character who in Emma's case is self-deludedly wrong about almost everything. And it's...brilliantly tricksy and mischievous and elaborate use of that device which tricks even the reader quite often, certainly the first time reader. And then she got to persuasion and I think she is at least doing something new and different with that method which is there's Anne Elliot. Anne Elliot's a good person. Anne Elliot's judgment is very good. She's the most cultured and cultivated of Jane Austen's heroines. She is, as Jane Austen herself said about Anne Elliot, almost too good for me. And so what she does is she gives her a whole new vein of self-deception, which is the self-deception in the way of a good person who always wants to think things are worse than they are and who always, who, because suspicious of their own desires and motives sort of tamps them down and suppresses them. And we live in this extraordinary mind of this character who's often ignored, she's always overhearing conversations. Almost every dialogue in the novel seems to be something Anne overhears rather than takes part in. And the consciousness of a character whodoesn't want to acknowledge things in themselves which you and I might think were quite natural and reasonable and indeed in our psychotherapeutic age to be expressed from the rooftops. You still fancy this guy? Fine! Admit it to yourself. ⁓ No. So it's not repression actually, exactly. It's a sort of virtuous self-control somehow which I think lots of readers find rather masochistic about her. Henry Oliver (08:38)I find that book interesting because in Sense and Sensibility she's sort of opposed self-command with self-expression, but she doesn't do that in Persuasion. She says, no, no, I'm just going to be the courage of, no, self-command. know, Eleanor becomes the heroine.John Mullan (08:48)Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But with the odd with the odd burst of Mariannes, I was watching the I thought execrable Netflix ⁓ persuasion done about two or three years ago ⁓ with the luminous Dakota Johnson as as you know, as Anne Elliot. You could not believe her bloom had faded one little bit, I think.John Mullan (09:23)And ⁓ I don't know if you saw it, but the modus operandi rather following the lead set by that film, The Favourite, which was set in Queen Anne's reign, but adopted the Demotic English of the 21st century. similarly, this adaptation, much influenced by Fleabag, decided to deal with the challenge of Jane Austen's dialogue by simply not using it, you know, and having her speak in a completely contemporary idiom. But there were just one or two lines, very, very few from the novel, that appeared. And when they appeared, they sort of cried through the screen at you. And one of them, slightly to qualify what you've just said, was a line I'd hardly noticed before. as it was one of the few Austin lines in the programme, in the film, I really noticed it. And it was much more Marianne than Eleanor. And that's when, I don't know if you remember, and Captain Wentworth, they're in Bath. So now they are sort of used to talking to each other. And Louisa Musgrove's done her recovering from injury and gone off and got engaged to Captain Benwick, Captain Benwick. So Wentworth's a free man. And Anne is aware, becoming aware that he may be still interested in her. And there's a card party, an evening party arranged by Sir Walter Elliot. And Captain Wentworth is given an invitation, even though they used to disapprove of him because he's now a naval hero and a rich man. And Captain Wentworth and Anna making slightly awkward conversation. And Captain Wentworth says, you did not used to like cards.I mean, he realizes what he said, because what he said is, remember you eight years ago. I remember we didn't have to do cards. We did snogging and music. That's what we did. But anyway, he did not used to like cards. And he suddenly realizes what a giveaway that is. And he says something like, but then time brings many changes. And she says, she cries out, I am not so much changed.Henry Oliver (11:23)Mm. Mm, yes, yes. Yep.Yes.Cries out, yeah.John Mullan (11:50)It's absolutely electric line and that's not Eleanor is it? That's not an Eleanor-ish line. ⁓ Eleanor would say indeed time evinces such dispositions in most extraordinary ways. She would say some Johnsonian thing wouldn't she? so I don't think it's quite a return to the same territory or the same kind of psychology.Henry Oliver (12:05)That's right. Yes, yes, yeah.No, that's interesting, yeah. One of the things that happens in Persuasion is that you get this impressionistic writing. So a bit like Mrs. Elliot talking while she picks strawberries. When Lady Russell comes into Bath, you get that wonderful scene of the noises and the sounds. Is this a sort of step forward in a way? And you can think of Austen as not an evolutionary missing link as such, but she's sort of halfway between Humphrey Clinker and Mr. Jangle.Is that something that she would have sort of developed?John Mullan (12:49)I think that's quite possible. haven't really thought about it before, but you're right. think there are these, ⁓ there are especially, they're impressionistic ⁓ passages which are tied up with Anne's emotions. And there's an absolutely, I think, short, simple, but extraordinarily original one when she meets him again after eight years. And it says something like, the room was full, full of people. Mary said something and you're in the blur of it. He said all that was right, you know, and she can't hear the words, she can't hear the words and you can't hear the words and you're inside and she's even, you're even sort of looking at the floor because she's looking at the floor and in Anne's sort of consciousness, often slightly fevered despite itself, you do exactly get this sort of, ⁓ for want of a better word, blur of impressions, which is entirely unlike, isn't it, Emma's sort of ⁓ drama of inner thought, which is always assertive, argumentative, perhaps self-correcting sometimes, but nothing if not confidently articulate.John Mullan (14:17)And with Anne, it's a blur of stuff. there is a sort of perhaps a kind of inklings of a stream of consciousness method there.Henry Oliver (14:27)I think so, yeah. Why is it that Flaubert and other writers get all the credit for what Jane Austen invented?John Mullan (14:35)Join my campaign, Henry. It is so vexing. It is vexing. sometimes thought, I sometimes have thought, but perhaps this is a little xenophobic of me, that the reason that Jane Austen is too little appreciated and read in France is because then they would have to admit that Flaubertdidn't do it first, you know. ⁓Henry Oliver (14:40)It's vexing, isn't it?John Mullan (15:04)I mean, I suppose there's an answer from literary history, which is simply for various reasons, ⁓ some of them to do with what became fashionable in literary fiction, as we would now call it. Jane Austen was not very widely read or known in the 19th century. So it wasn't as if, as it were, Tolstoy was reading Jane Austen and saying, this is not up to much. He wasn't. He was reading Elizabeth Gaskell.Jane Eyre ⁓ and tons of Dickens, tons, every single word Dickens published, of course. ⁓ So Jane Austen, know, to cite an example I've just referred to, I Charlotte Bronte knew nothing of Jane Austen until George Henry Lewis, George Eliot's partner, who is carrying the torch for Jane Austen, said, you really should read some. And that's why we have her famous letter saying, it's, you know, it's commonplace and foolish things she said. But so I think the first thing to establish is she was really not very widely read. So it wasn't that people were reading it and not getting it. It was which, you know, I think there's a little bit of that with Dickens. He was very widely read and people because of that almost didn't see how innovative he was, how extraordinarily experimental. It was too weird. But they still loved it as comic or melodramatic fiction. But I think Jane Austen simply wasn't very widely read until the late 19th century. So I don't know if Flaubert read her. I would say almost certainly not. Dickens owned a set of Jane Austen, but that was amongst 350 selecting volumes of the select British novelists. Probably he never read Jane Austen. Tolstoy and you know never did, you know I bet Dostoevsky didn't, any number of great writers didn't.Henry Oliver (17:09)I find it hard to believe that Dickens didn't read her.John Mullan (17:12)Well, I don't actually, I'm afraid, because I mean the one occasion that I know of in his surviving correspondence when she's mentioned is after the publication of Little Dorrit when ⁓ his great bosom friend Forster writes to him and says, Flora Finching, that must be Miss Bates. Yes. You must have been thinking of Miss Bates.John Mullan (17:41)And he didn't write it in a sort of, you plagiarist type way, I he was saying you've varied, it's a variation upon that character and Dickens we wrote back and we have his reply absolutely denying this. Unfortunately his denial doesn't make it clear whether he knew who Miss Bates was but hadn't it been influenced or whether he simply didn't know but what he doesn't… It's the one opportunity where he could have said, well, of course I've read Emma, but that's not my sort of thing. ⁓ of course I delight in Miss Bates, but I had no idea of thinking of her when I... He has every opportunity to say something about Jane Austen and he doesn't say anything about her. He just says, no.Henry Oliver (18:29)But doesn't he elsewhere deny having read Jane Eyre? And that's just like, no one believes you, Charles.John Mullan (18:32)Yes.Well, he may deny it, but he also elsewhere admits to it. Yeah.Henry Oliver (18:39)Okay, but you know, just because he doesn't come out with it.John Mullan (18:43)No, no, it's true, but he wouldn't have been singular and not reading Jane Austen. That's what I'm saying. Yes. So it's possible to ignore her innovativeness simply by not having read her. But I do think, I mean, briefly, that there is another thing as well, which is that really until the late 20th century almost, even though she'd become a wide, hugely famous, hugely widely read and staple of sort of A levels and undergraduate courses author, her real, ⁓ her sort of experiments with form were still very rarely acknowledged. And I mean, it was only really, I think in the sort of almost 1980s, really a lot in my working lifetime that people have started saying the kind of thing you were asking about now but hang on free and direct style no forget flow bear forget Henry James I mean they're terrific but actually this woman who never met an accomplished author in her life who had no literary exchanges with fellow writersShe did it at a little table in a house in Hampshire. Just did it.Henry Oliver (20:14)Was she a Tory or an Enlightenment Liberal or something else?John Mullan (20:19)⁓ well I think the likeliest, if I had to pin my colours to a mast, I think she would be a combination of the two things you said. I think she would have been an enlightenment Tory, as it were. So I think there is some evidence that ⁓ perhaps because also I think she was probably quite reasonably devout Anglican. So there is some evidence that… She might have been conservative with a small C, but I think she was also an enlightenment person. I think she and her, especially her father and at least a couple of her brothers, you know, would have sat around reading 18th century texts and having enlightened discussions and clearly they were, you know, and they had, it's perfect, you know, absolutely hard and fast evidence, for instance, that they would have been that they were sympathetic to the abolition of slavery, that they were ⁓ sceptics about the virtues of monarchical power and clear-eyed about its corruption, that they had no, Jane Austen, as I said at the beginning of this exchange, had no great respect or admiration for the aristocratic ruling class at all. ⁓ So there's aspects of her politics which aren't conservative with a big C anyway, but I think enlightened, think, I mean I, you know, I got into all this because I loved her novels, I've almost found out about her family inadvertently because you meet scary J-Night experts at Jane Austen Society of North America conferences and if you don't know about it, they look at scants. But it is all interesting and I think her family were rather terrific actually, her immediate family. I think they were enlightened, bookish, optimistic, optimistic people who didn't sit around moaning about the state of the country or their own, you know, not having been left enough money in exes will. And...I think that they were in the broadest sense enlightened people by the standard of their times and perhaps by any standards.Henry Oliver (22:42)Is Mansfield Park about slavery?John Mullan (22:45)Not at all, no. I don't think so. I don't think so. And I think, you know, the famous little passage, for it is only a passage in which Edmund and Fanny talk about the fact it's not a direct dialogue. They are having a dialogue about the fact that they had, but Fanny had this conversation or attempt at conversation ⁓ a day or two before. And until relatively recently, nobody much commented on that passage. It doesn't mean they didn't read it or understand it, but now I have not had an interview, a conversation, a dialogue involving Mansfield Park in the last, in living memory, which hasn't mentioned it, because it's so apparently responsive to our priorities, our needs and our interests. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think it's a it's a parenthetic part of the novel. ⁓ And of course, there was this Edward Said article some decades ago, which became very widely known and widely read. And although I think Edward Said, you know, was a was a wonderful writer in many ways. ⁓I think he just completely misunderstands it ⁓ in a way that's rather strange for a literary critic because he says it sort of represents, you know, author's and a whole society's silence about this issue, the source of wealth for these people in provincial England being the enslavement of people the other side of the Atlantic. But of course, Jane Auster didn't have to put that bit in her novel, if she'd wanted really to remain silent, she wouldn't have put it in, would she? And the conversation is one where Edmund says, know, ⁓ you know, my father would have liked you to continue when you were asking about, yeah, and she says, but there was such terrible silence. And she's referring to the other Bertram siblings who indeed are, of course, heedless, selfish ⁓ young people who certainly will not want to know that their affluence is underwritten by, you know, the employment of slaves on a sugar plantation. But the implication, I think, of that passage is very clearly that Fanny would have, the reader of the time would have been expected to infer that Fanny shares the sympathies that Jane Austen, with her admiration, her love, she says, of Thomas Clarkson. The countries leading abolitionists would have had and that Edmund would also share them. And I think Edmund is saying something rather surprising, which I've always sort of wondered about, which is he's saying, my father would have liked to talk about it more. And what does that mean? Does that mean, my father's actually, he's one of these enlightened ones who's kind of, you know, freeing the slaves or does it mean, my father actually knows how to defend his corner? He would have beenYou know, he doesn't he doesn't feel threatened or worried about discussing it. It's not at all clear where Sir Thomas is in this, but I think it's pretty clear where Edmund and Fanny are.Henry Oliver (26:08)How seriously do you take the idea that we are supposed to disapprove of the family theatricals and that young ladies putting on plays at home is immoral?John Mullan (26:31)Well, I would, mean, perhaps I could quote what two students who were discussing exactly this issue said quite some time ago in a class where a seminar was running on Mansfield Park. And one of the students can't remember their names, I'm afraid. I can't remember their identities, so I'm safe to quote them. ⁓ They're now probably running PR companies or commercial solicitors. And one of them I would say a less perceptive student said, why the big deal about the amateur dramatics? I mean, what's Jane Austen's problem? And there was a pause and another student in the room who I would suggest was a bit more of an alpha student said, really, I'm surprised you asked that. I don't think I've ever read a novel in which I've seen characters behaving so badly as this.And I think that's the answer. The answer isn't that the amateur dramatics themselves are sort of wrong, because of course Jane Austen and her family did them. They indulged in them. ⁓ It's that it gives the opportunity, the license for appalling, mean truly appalling behaviour. I mean, Henry Crawford, you know, to cut to the chase on this, Henry Crawford is seducing a woman in front of her fiance and he enjoys it not just because he enjoys seducing women, that's what he does, but because it's in front of him and he gets an extra kick out of it. You know, he has himself after all already said earlier in the novel, oh, I much prefer an engaged woman, he has said to his sister and Mrs. Grant. Yes, of course he does. So he's doing that. Mariah and Julia are fighting over him. Mr. Rushworth, he's not behaving badly, he's just behaving like a silly arse. Mary Crawford, my goodness, what is she up to? She's up to using the amateur dramatics for her own kind of seductions whilst pretending to be sort of doing it almost unwillingly. I mean, it seems to me an elaborate, beautifully choreographed elaboration of the selfishness, sensuality and hypocrisy of almost everybody involved. And it's not because it's amateur dramatics, but amateur dramatics gives them the chance to behave so badly.Henry Oliver (29:26)Someone told me that Thomas Piketty says that Jane Austen depicts a society in which inequality of wealth is natural and morally justified. Is that true?John Mullan (29:29)Ha⁓Well, again, Thomas Piketty, I wish we had him here for a good old mud wrestle. ⁓ I would say that the problem with his analysis is the coupling of the two adjectives, natural and morally right. I think there is a strong argument that inequality is depicted as natural or at least inevitable, inescapable in Jane Austen's novels.but not morally right, as it were. In fact, not at all morally right. There is a certain, I think you could be exaggerated little and call it almost fatalism about that such inequalities. Do you remember Mr. Knightley says to Emma, in Emma, when he's admonishing her for her, you know, again, a different way, terribly bad behavior.Henry Oliver (30:38)At the picnic.John Mullan (30:39)At the picnic when she's humiliatedMiss Bates really and Mr Knightley says something like if she'd been your equal you know then it wouldn't have been so bad because she could have retaliated she could have come back but she's not and she says and he says something like I won't get the words exactly right but I can get quite close he says sinceher youth, she has sunk. And if she lives much longer, will sink further. And he doesn't say, ⁓ well, we must have a collection to do something about it, or we must have a revolution to do something about it, or if only the government would bring in better pensions, you know, he doesn't, he doesn't sort of rail against it as we feel obliged to. ⁓ He just accepts it as an inevitable part of what happens because of the bad luck of her birth, of the career that her father followed, of the fact that he died too early probably, of the fact that she herself never married and so on. That's the way it is. And Mr Knightley is, I think, a remarkably kind character, he's one of the kindest people in Jane Austen and he's always doing surreptitious kindnesses to people and you know he gives the Bates's stuff, things to eat and so on. He arranges for his carriage to carry them places but he accepts that that is the order of things. ⁓ But I, you know Henry, I don't know what you think, I think reading novels or literature perhaps more generally, but especially novels from the past, is when you're responding to your question to Mr. Piketty's quote, is quite a sort of, can be quite an interesting corrective to our own vanities, I think, because we, I mean, I'm not saying, you know, the poor are always with us, as it were, like Jesus, but... ⁓ You know, we are so ⁓ used to speaking and arguing as if any degree of poverty is in principle politically remediable, you know, and should be. And characters in Jane Austen don't think that way. And I don't think Jane Austen thought that way.Henry Oliver (33:16)Yes, yes. Yeah.The other thing I would say is that ⁓ the people who discuss Jane Austen publicly and write about her are usually middle class or on middle class incomes. And there's a kind of collective blindness to the fact that what we call Miss Bates poverty simply means that she's slipping out of the upper middle class and she will no longer have her maid.⁓ It doesn't actually mean, she'll still be living on a lot more than a factory worker, who at that time would have been living on a lot more than an agricultural worker, and who would have been living on a lot more than someone in what we would think of as destitution, or someone who was necessitous or whatever. So there's a certain extent to which I actually think what Austin is very good at showing is the... ⁓ the dynamics of a newly commercial society. So at the same time that Miss Bates is sinking, ⁓ I forget his name, but the farmer, the nice farmer, Robert Martin, he's rising. And they all, all classes meet at the drapier and class distinctions are slightly blurred by the presence of nice fabric.John Mullan (34:24)Mr. Robert Martin. Henry Oliver (34:37)And if your income comes from turnips, that's fine. You can have the same material that Emma has. And Jane Austen knows that she lives in this world of buttons and bonnets and muslins and all these new ⁓ imports and innovations. And, you know, I think Persuasion is a very good novel. ⁓ to say to Piketty, well, there's nothing natural about wealth inequality and persuasion. And it's not Miss Bates who's sinking, it's the baronet. And all these admirals are coming up and he has that very funny line, doesn't he? You're at terrible risk in the Navy that you'd be cut by a man who your father would have cut his father. And so I think actually she's not a Piketty person, but she's very clear-eyed about... quote unquote, what capitalism is doing to wealth inequality. Yeah, yeah.John Mullan (35:26)Yes, she is indeed. Indeed.Clear-eyed, I think, is just the adjective. I mean, I suppose the nearest she gets to a description. Yeah, she writes about the classes that she knows from the inside, as it were. So one could complain, people have complained. She doesn't represent what it's like to be an agricultural worker, even though agricultural labour is going on all around the communities in which her novels are set.And I mean, I think that that's a sort of rather banal objection, but there's no denying it in a way. If you think a novelist has a duty, as it were, to cover the classes and to cover the occupations, then it's not a duty that Jane Austen at all perceived. However, there is quite, there is something like, not a representation of destitution as you get in Dickens.but a representation of something inching towards poverty in Mansfield Park, which is the famous, as if Jane Austen was showing you she could do this sort of thing, which is the whole Portsmouth episode, which describes with a degree of domestic detail she never uses anywhere else in her fiction. When she's with the more affluent people, the living conditions, the food, the sheer disgustingness and tawdryness of life in the lodgings in Portsmouth where the Price family live. And of course, in a way, it's not natural because ⁓ in their particular circumstances, Lieutenant Price is an alcoholic.They've got far too many children. ⁓ He's a useless, sweary-mouthed boozer ⁓ and also had the misfortune to be wounded. ⁓ And she, his wife, Fanny's mother, is a slattern. We get told she's a slattern. And it's not quite clear if that's a word in Fanny's head or if that's Jane Austen's word. And Jane Austen...Fanny even goes so far as to think if Mrs. Norris were in charge here, and Mrs. Norris is as it were, she's the biggest sadist in all Jane Austen's fiction. She's like sort Gestapo guard monquet. If Mrs. Norris were in charge, it wouldn't be so bad here, but it's terrible. And Jane Austen even, know, she describes the color of the milk, doesn't she? The blue moats floating in the milk.She dis- and it's all through Fanny's perception. And Fanny's lived in this rather loveless grand place. And now it's a great sort of, ⁓ it's a coup d'etat. She now makes Fanny yearn for the loveless grand place, you know, because of what you were saying really, Henry, because as I would say, she's such an unsentimental writer, you know, andyou sort of think, you know, there's going to be no temptation for her to say, to show Fanny back in the loving bosom of her family, realising what hollow hearted people those Bertrams are. You know, she even describes the mark, doesn't she, that Mr Price's head, his greasy hair is left on the wall. It's terrific. And it's not destitution, but it's something like a life which must be led by a great sort of rank of British people at the time and Jane Austen can give you that, she can.Henry Oliver (39:26)Yeah, yeah. That's another very Dickensian moment. I'm not going to push this little thesis of mine too far, but the grease on the chair. It's like Mr. Jaggers in his horse hair. Yes. That's right, that's right. ⁓ Virginia Woolf said that Jane Austen is the most difficult novelist to catch in the act of greatness. Is that true?John Mullan (39:34)Yes, yes, yes, it is these details that Dickens would have noticed of course. Yes.Yes.⁓ I think it is so true. think that Virginia Woolf, she was such a true, well, I think she was a wonderful critic, actually, generally. Yeah, I think she was a wonderful critic. you know, when I've had a couple of glasses of Rioja, I've been known to say, to shocked students, ⁓ because you don't drink Rioja with students very often nowadays, but it can happen. ⁓ But she was a greater critic than novelist, you know.Henry Oliver (39:54)Yeah.Best critic of the 20th century. Yes, yes. Yeah. And also greater than Emson and all these people who get the airtime. Yes, yes.John Mullan (40:20)You know.I know, I know, but that's perhaps because she didn't have a theory or an argument, you know, and the Seven Types, I know that's to her credit, but you know, the Seven Types of Ambiguity thing is a very strong sort of argument, even if...Henry Oliver (40:31)Much to her credit.But look, if the last library was on fire and I could only save one of them, I'd let all the other critics in the 20th century burn and I'd take the common reader, wouldn't you?John Mullan (40:47)Okay. Yes, I, well, I think I agree. think she's a wonderful critic and both stringent and open. I mean, it's an extraordinary way, you know, doesn't let anybody get away with anything, but on the other hand is genuinely ready to, to find something new to, to anyway. ⁓ the thing she said about Austin, she said lots of good things about Austin and most of them are good because they're true. And the thing about… Yes, so what I would, I think what she meant was something like this, that amongst the very greatest writers, so I don't know, Shakespeare or Milton or, you know, something like that, you could take almost a line, yes? You can take a line and it's already glowing with sort of radioactive brilliance, know, and ⁓ Jane Austen, the line itself, there are wonderful sentences.)Mr. Bennett was so odd a mixture of quick parts, sarcastic humor, reserve and caprice that the experience of three and 20 years had been insufficient to make his wife understand his character. I mean, that's as good as anything in Hamlet, isn't it? So odd a mixture and there he is, the oddest mixture there's ever been. And you think he must exist, he must exist. But anyway, most lines in Jane Austen probably aren't like that and it's as if in order to ⁓ explain how brilliant she is and this is something you can do when you teach Jane Austen, makes her terrific to teach I think, you can look at any bit and if everybody's read the novel and remembers it you can look at any paragraph or almost any line of dialogue and see how wonderful it is because it will connect to so many other things. But out of context, if you see what I mean, it doesn't always have that glow of significance. And sometimes, you know, the sort of almost most innocuous phrases and lines actually have extraordinary dramatic complexity. but you've got to know what's gone on before, probably what goes on after, who's in the room listening, and so on. And so you can't just catch it, you have to explain it. ⁓ You can't just, as it were, it, as you might quote, you know, a sort of a great line of Wordsworth or something.Henry Oliver (43:49)Even the quotable bits, you know, the bit that gets used to explain free and direct style in Pride and Prejudice where she says ⁓ living in sight of their own warehouses. Even a line like that is just so much better when you've been reading the book and you know who is being ventriloquized.John Mullan (43:59)Well, my favourite one is from Pride and Prejudice is after she's read the letter Mr Darcy gives her explaining what Wickham is really like, really, for truth of their relationship and their history. And she interrogates herself. And then at the end, there's ⁓ a passage which is in a passage of narration, but which is certainly in going through Elizabeth's thoughts. And it ends, she had been blind, partial, prejudiced, absurd. And I just think it's, if you've got to know Elizabeth, you just know that that payoff adjective, absurd, that's the coup de grace. Because of course, finding other people absurd is her occupation. It's what makes her so delightful. And it's what makes us complicit with her.Henry Oliver (44:48)Yeah.That's right.John Mullan (45:05)She sees how ridiculous Sir William Lucas and her sister Mary, all these people, and now she has absurded herself, as it were. So blind partial prejudice, these are all repetitions of the same thought. But only Elizabeth would end the list absurd. I think it's just terrific. But you have to have read the book just to get that. That's a whole sentence.You have to have read the book to get the sentence, don't you?Henry Oliver (45:34)Yep, indeed. ⁓ Do we love Jane Austen too much so that her contemporaries are overshadowed and they're actually these other great writers knocking around at the same time and we don't give them their due? Or is she in fact, you know, the Shakespeare to their Christopher Marlowe or however you want to.John Mullan (45:55)I think she's the Shakespeare to their Thomas Kidd or no even that's the... Yes, okay, I'm afraid that you know there are two contradictory answers to that. Yes, it does lead us to be unfair to her contemporaries certainly because they're so much less good than her. So because they're so much less good than her in a way we're not being unfair. know, I mean... because I have the profession I have, I have read a lot of novels by her immediate predecessors. I mean, people like Fanny Burnie, for instance, and her contemporaries, people like Mariah Edgeworth. And ⁓ if Jane Austen hadn't existed, they would get more airtime, I think, yes? And some of them are both Burnie and Edgeworth, for instance. ⁓ highly intelligent women who had a much more sophisticated sort of intellectual and social life than Jane Austen ⁓ and conversed with men and women of ideas and put some of those ideas in their fiction and they both wrote quite sophisticated novels and they were both more popular than Jane Austen and they both, having them for the sort of carpers and complainers, they've got all sorts of things like Mariah Regworth has some working-class people and they have political stuff in their novels and they have feminist or anti-feminist stuff in their novels and they're much more satisfying to the person who's got an essay to write in a way because they've got the social issues of the day in there a bit, certainly Mariah Regworth a lot. ⁓ So if Jane Austen hadn't come along we would show them I think more, give them more time. However, you know, I don't want to say this in a destructive way, but in a certain way, all that they wrote isn't worth one paragraph of Jane Austen, you know, in a way. So we're not wrong. I suppose the interesting case is the case of a man actually, which is Walter Scott, who sort of does overlap with Jane Austen a bit, you know, and who has published what I can't remember, two, three, even four novels by the time she dies, and I think three, and she's aware of him as a poet and I think beginning to be aware of him as a novelist. And he's the prime example of somebody who was in his own day, but for a long time afterwards, regarded as a great novelist of his day. And he's just gone. He's really, you know, you can get his books in know, Penguin and Oxford classics in the shops. I mean, it's at least in good big book shops. And it's not that he's not available, but it's a very rare person who's read more than one or even read one. I don't know if you read lots of Scott, Henry.Henry Oliver (49:07)Well, I've read some Scott and I quite like it, but I was a reactionary in my youth and I have a little flame for the Jacobite cause deep in my heart. This cannot be said of almost anyone who is alive today. 1745 means nothing to most people. The problem is that he was writing about something that has just been sort of forgotten. And so the novels, know, when Waverly takes the knee in front of the old young old pretender, whichever it is, who cares anymore? you know?John Mullan (49:40)Well, yes, but it can't just be that because he also wrote novels about Elizabeth I and Robin Hood and, you know... ⁓Henry Oliver (49:46)I do think Ivanhoe could be more popular, yeah.John Mullan (49:49)Yeah, so it's not just that this and when he wrote, for instance, when he published Old Mortality, which I think is one of his finest novels, I mean, I've read probably 10 Scott novels at nine or 10, you know, so that's only half or something of his of his output. And I haven't read one for a long time, actually. Sorry, probably seven or eight years. He wrote about some things, which even when he wrote about and published about, readers of the time couldn't have much known or cared about. mean, old mortalities about the Covenant as wars in the borderlands of Scotland in the 17th century. I mean, all those people in London who were buying it, they couldn't give a damn about that. Really, really, they couldn't. I mean, they might have recognized the postures of religious fanaticism that he describes rather well.But even then only rather distantly, I think. So I think it's not quite that. I think it's not so much ignorance now of the particular bits of history he was drawn to. I think it's that in the 19th century, historical fiction had a huge status. And it was widely believed that history was the most dignified topic for fiction and so dignified, it's what made fiction serious. So all 19th century authors had a go at it. Dickens had a go at it a couple of times, didn't he? I think it's no, yes, yes, think even Barnaby Rudge is actually, it's not just a tale of two cities. Yes, a terrific book. But generally speaking, ⁓ most Victorian novelists who did it, ⁓ they are amongst, you know, nobodyHenry Oliver (51:22)Very successfully. ⁓ a great book, great book.John Mullan (51:43)I think reads Trollope's La Vendée, you know, people who love Hardy as I do, do not rush to the trumpet major. it was a genre everybody thought was the big thing, know, war and peace after all. And then it's prestige faded. I mean, it's...returned a little bit in some ways in a sort of Hillary man, Tellish sort of way, but it had a hugely inflated status, I think, in the 19th century and that helped Scott. And Scott did, know, Scott is good at history, he's good at battles, he's terrific at landscapes, you know, the big bow wow strain as he himself described it.Henry Oliver (52:32)Are you up for a sort of quick fire round about other things than Jane Austen?John Mullan (52:43)Yes, sure, try me.Henry Oliver (52:44)Have you used any LLMs and are they good at talking about literature?John Mullan (52:49)I don't even know what an LLM is. What is it? Henry Oliver (52:51)Chat GPT. ⁓ John Mullan (53:17)⁓ God, goodness gracious, it's the work of Satan.Absolutely, I've never used one in my life. And indeed, have colleagues who've used them just to sort of see what it's like so that might help us recognise it if students are using them. And I can't even bring myself to do that, I'm afraid. But we do as a...As a department in my university, we have made some use of them purely in order to give us an idea of what they're like, so to help us sort of...Henry Oliver (53:28)You personally don't feel professionally obliged to see what it can tell you. Okay, no, that's fine. John Mullan (53:32)No, sorry.Henry Oliver (53:33)What was it like being a Booker Prize judge?heady. It was actually rather heady. Everybody talks about how it's such a slog, all those books, which is true. But when you're the Booker Prize judge, at least when I did it, you were treated as if you were somebody who was rather important. And then as you know, and that lasts for about six months. And you're sort of sent around in taxes and give nice meals and that sort of thing. And sort of have to give press conferences when you choose the shortlist. and I'm afraid my vanity was tickled by all that. And then at the moment after you've made the decision, you disappear. And the person who wins becomes important. It's a natural thing, it's good. And you realize you're not important at all.Henry Oliver (54:24)You've been teaching in universities, I think, since the 1990s.John Mullan (54:29)Yes, no earlier I fear, even earlier.Henry Oliver (54:32)What are the big changes? Is the sort of media narrative correct or is it more complicated than that?John Mullan (54:38)Well, it is more complicated, but sometimes things are true even though the Daily Telegraph says they're true, to quote George Orwell. ⁓ you know, I mean, I think in Britain, are you asking about Britain or are you asking more generally? Because I have a much more depressing view of what's happened in America in humanities departments.Henry Oliver (54:45)Well, tell us about Britain, because I think one problem is that the American story becomes the British story in a way. So what's the British story?John Mullan (55:07)Yes, yes, think that's true.Well, I think the British story is that we were in danger of falling in with the American story. The main thing that has happened, that has had a clear effect, was the introduction in a serious way, however long ago it was, 13 years or something, of tuition fees. And that's really, in my department, in my subject, that's had a major change.and it wasn't clear at first, but it's become very clear now. So ⁓ it means that the, as it were, the stance of the teachers to the taught and the taught to the teachers, both of those have changed considerably. Not just in bad ways, that's the thing. It is complicated. So for instance, I mean, you could concentrate on the good side of things, which is, think, I don't know, were you a student of English literature once?Henry Oliver (55:49)Mm-hmm.I was, I was. 2005, long time ago.John Mullan (56:07)Yes. OK.Well, I think that's not that long ago. mean, probably the change is less extreme since your day than it is since my day. But compared to when I was a student, which was the end of the 70s, beginning of the 80s, I was an undergraduate. The degree of sort of professionalism and sobriety, responsibility and diligence amongst English literature academics has improved so much.You know, you generally speaking, literature academics, they are not a load of ⁓ drunken wastrels or sort of predatory seducers or lazy, work shy, ⁓ even if they love their own research, negligent teachers or a lot of the sort of the things which even at the time I recognise as the sort of bad behaviour aspects of some academics. Most of that's just gone. It's just gone. You cannot be like that because you've got everybody's your institution is totally geared up to sort of consumer feedback and and the students, especially if you're not in Oxford or Cambridge, the students are essentially paying your salaries in a very direct way. So there have been improvements actually. ⁓ those improvements were sort of by the advocates of tuition fees, I think, and they weren't completely wrong. However, there have also been some real downsides as well. ⁓ One is simply that the students complain all the time, you know, and in our day we had lots to complain about and we never complained. Now they have much less to complain about and they complain all the time. ⁓ So, and that seems to me to have sort of weakened the relationship of trust that there should be between academics and students. But also I would say more if not optimistically, at least stoically. I've been in this game for a long time and the waves of student fashion and indignation break on the shore and then another one comes along a few years later. And as a sort of manager in my department, because I'm head of my department, I've learned to sort of play the long game.And what everybody's hysterical about one moment, one year, they will have forgotten about two or three years later. So there has been a certain, you know, there was a, you know, what, what, you know, some conservative journalists would call kind of wokery. There has been some of that. But in a way, there's always been waves of that. And the job of academics is sort of to stand up to it. and in a of calm way. Tuition fees have made it more difficult to do that I think.Henry Oliver (59:40)Yeah. Did you know A.S. Byatt? What was she like?John Mullan (59:43)I did.⁓ Well...When you got to know her, you recognized that the rather sort of haughty almost and sometimes condescending apparently, ⁓ intellectual auteur was of course a bit of a front. Well, it wasn't a front, but actually she was quite a vulnerable person, quite a sensitive and easily upset person.I mean that as a sort of compliment, not easily upset in the sense that sort of her vanity, but actually she was quite a humanly sensitive person and quite woundable. And when I sort of got to know that aspect of her, know, unsurprisingly, I found myself liking her very much more and actually not worrying so much about the apparent sort of put downs of some other writers and things and also, you know, one could never have said this while she was alive even though she often talked about it. I think she was absolutely permanently scarred by the death of her son and I think that was a, you know, who was run over when he was what 11 years old or something. He may have been 10, he may have been 12, I've forgotten, but that sort of age. I just think she was I just think she was permanently lacerated by that. And whenever I met her, she always mentioned it somehow, if we were together for any length of time.Henry Oliver (1:01:27)What's your favourite Iris Murdoch novel?John Mullan (1:01:33)I was hoping you were going to say which is the most absurd Aris Murdoch novel. ⁓ No, you're an Aris Murdoch fan, are you? Henry Oliver (1:01:38)Very much so. You don't like her work?John Mullan (1:01:59)Okay. ⁓ no, it's, as you would say, Henry, more complicated than that. I sort of like it and find it absurd. It's true. I've only read, re-read in both cases, two in the last 10 years. And that'sThat's not to my credit. And both times I thought, this is so silly. I reread the C to C and I reread a severed head. And I just found them both so silly. ⁓ I was almost, you know, I almost lost my patience with them. But I should try another. What did I used to like? Did I rather like an accidental man? I fear I did.Did I rather like the bell, which is surely ridiculous. I fear I did. Which one should I like the most?Henry Oliver (1:02:38)I like The Sea, the Sea very much. ⁓ I think The Good Apprentice is a great book. There are these, so after The Sea, the Sea, she moves into her quote unquote late phase and people don't like it, but I do like it. So The Good Apprentice and The Philosopher's Pupil I think are good books, very good books.John Mullan (1:02:40)I've not read that one, I'm afraid. Yes, I stopped at the sea to sea. I, you know, once upon a time, I'm a bit wary of it and my experience of rereading A Severed Head rather confirmed me in my wariness because rereading, if I were to reread Myris Murdoch, I'm essentially returning to my 18 year old self because I read lots of Myris Murdoch when I was 17, 18, 19 and I thought she was deep as anything. and to me she was the deep living British novelist. And I think I wasn't alone ⁓ and I feel a little bit chastened by your advocacy of her because I've also gone along with the ⁓ general readership who've slightly decided to ditch Irish Murdoch. her stock market price has sunk hugely ⁓ since her death. But perhaps that's unfair to her, I don't know. I've gone a bit, I'll try again, because I recently have reread two or three early Margaret Drabble novels and found them excellent, really excellent. And thought, ⁓ actually, I wasn't wrong to like these when I was a teenager. ⁓Henry Oliver (1:04:11)The Millstone is a great book.John Mullan (1:04:22)⁓ yes and actually yes I reread that, I reread the Garrick year, the Millstone's terrific I agree, the the Garrick year is also excellent and Jerusalem the Golden, I reread all three of them and and and thought they were very good. So so you're recommending the Philosopher's Apprentice. I'm yeah I'm conflating yes okay.Henry Oliver (1:04:31)first rate. The Good Apprentice and the Philosopher's Pupil. Yeah, yeah. I do agree with you about A Severed Head. I think that book's crazy. What do you like about Patricia Beer's poetry?John Mullan (1:04:56)⁓ I'm not sure I am a great fan of Patricia Beer's poetry really. I got the job of right, what? Yes, yes, because I was asked to and I said, I've read some of her poetry, but you know, why me? And the editor said, because we can't find anybody else to do it. So that's why I did it. And it's true that I came.Henry Oliver (1:05:02)Well, you wrote her... You wrote her dictionary of national... Yes.John Mullan (1:05:23)I came to quite like it and admire some of it because in order to write the article I read everything she'd ever published. But that was a while ago now, Henry, and I'm not sure it puts me in a position to recommend her.Henry Oliver (1:05:35)Fair enough.Why is the Dunciad the greatest unread poem in English?John Mullan (1:05:41)Is it the greatest unread one? Yes, probably, yes, yes, I think it is. Okay, it's great because, first of all, great, then unread. It's great because, well, Alexander Poet is one of the handful of poetic geniuses ever, in my opinion, in the writing in English. Absolutely genius, top shelf. ⁓Henry Oliver (1:05:46)Well, you said that once, yes.Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, yes. Top shelf, yeah.John Mullan (1:06:09)And even his most accessible poetry, however, is relatively inaccessible to today's readers, sort of needs to be taught, or at least you have to introduce people to. Even the Rape of the Lock, which is a pure delight and the nearest thing to an ABBA song he ever wrote, is pretty scary with its just densely packed elusiveness and...Henry Oliver (1:06:27)YouJohn Mullan (1:06:38)You know, and as an A level examiner once said to me, we don't set Pope for A level because it's full of irony and irony is unfair to candidates. ⁓ Which is true enough. ⁓ So Pope's already difficult. ⁓ Poetry of another age, poetry which all depends on ideas of word choice and as I said, literary allusion and The Dunciad is his most compacted, elusive, dense, complicated and bookish poems of a writer who's already dense and compact and bookish and elusive. And the Dunceyad delights in parodying, as I'm sure you know, all the sort of habits of scholarly emendation and encrustation, which turn what should be easy to approach works of literature into sort of, you know, heaps of pedantic commentary. And he parodies all that with delight. But I mean, that's quite a hard ask, isn't it? And ⁓ yeah, and I just and I think everything about the poem means that it's something you can only ever imagine coming to it through an English literature course, actually. I think it is possible to do that. I came to it through being taught it very well and, you know, through because I was committed for three years to study English literature, but it's almost inconceivable that somebody could just sort of pick it up in a bookshop and think, ⁓ this is rather good fun. I'll buy this.Henry Oliver (1:08:26)Can we end with one quick question about Jane Austen since it's her birthday? A lot of people come to her books later. A lot of people love it when they're young, but a lot of people start to love it in their 20s or 30s. And yet these novels are about being young. What's going on there?John Mullan (1:08:29)Sure, sure.Yes.I fear, no not I fear, I think that what you describe is true of many things, not just Jane Austen. You know, that there's a wonderful passage in J.M. Coetzee's novel Disgrace where the reprehensible protagonist is teaching Wordsworth's Prelude.to a group of 19 and 20 year olds. And he adores it. He's in his mid fifties. And he, whilst he's talking, is thinking different things. And what he's thinking is something that I often think actually about certain works I teach, particularly Jane Austen, which is this book is all about being young, but the young find it tedious. Only the aging.You know, youth is wasted on the young, as it were. Only the aging really get its brilliance about the experience of being young. And I think that's a sort of pattern in quite a lot of literature. So, you know, take Northanger Abbey. That seems to me to be a sort of disly teenage book in a way.It's everything and everybody's in a hurry. Everybody's in a whirl. Catherine's in a whirl all the time. She's 17 years old. And it seems to me a delightfully teenage-like book. And if you've read lots of earlier novels, mostly by women, about girls in their, you know, nice girls in their teens trying to find a husband, you know, you realize that sort ofextraordinary magical gift of sort Jane Austen's speed and sprightliness. You know, somebody said to me recently, ⁓ when Elizabeth Bennet sort of walks, but she doesn't walk, she sort of half runs across the fields. You know, not only is it socially speaking, no heroine before her would have done it, but the sort of the sprightliness with which it's described putsthe sort of ploddingness of all fiction before her to shame. And there's something like that in Northanger Abbey. It's about youthfulness and it takes on some of the qualities of the youthfulness of its heroine. know, her wonderful oscillations between folly and real insight. You know, how much she says this thing. I think to marry for money is wicked. Whoa. And you think,Well, Jane Austen doesn't exactly think that. She doesn't think Charlotte Lucas is wicked, surely. But when Catherine says that, there's something wonderful about it. There is something wonderful. You know, only a 17 year old could say it, but she does. And but I appreciate that now in my 60s. I don't think I appreciated it when I was in my teens.Henry Oliver (1:11:55)That's a lovely place to end. John Mullen, thank you very much.John Mullan (1:11:58)Thanks, it's been a delight, a delight. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.commonreader.co.uk/subscribe

Ed Sheeran's new songs hint at cracks in his seemingly perfect, previously ultra-private marriage, while Jessie J has had to set the record straight on her breakup with Channing Tatum. So just how literally should we take pop stars' lyrics? Also this week, we're diving into the BBC's Gossip Girl-style mother-daughter thriller Wild Cherry, the so-called “female Adolescence", David Szalay's Booker Prize-winning novel Flesh and 2025's Word of the Year. Plus, the surprising news that we're technically teenagers until 32, reports of wild parties from the set of Rivals, and, finally, our (spoiler-free) review of Wicked 2!We love hearing from you, DM us ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@straightuppod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, email at ⁠⁠hello@straightuppodcast.co.uk⁠ and follow us on TikTok @straightuppod too!Recs/reviews:Wild Cherry, BBC iPlayerFlesh by David Szalay Shuggie Bain, Douglas StuartIgnore the pessimists – we are living through a literary golden age, New StatesmanHow to Stop Time, Matt HaigThrew it Away, Jessie JPlay, Ed SheeranStraight Up behind the music miniseries ep with Ed Sheeran's manager Stuart CampAdolescence lasts into your 30s, major new study on brain development finds, The IndependentWicked: For Good, in cinemas now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dit jaar won David Szalay met Flesh (Het vlees, vert. Auke Leistra) de Booker Prize. De literaire prijs die traditioneel gezien wereldwijd het meest effect heeft op de verkoopcijfers, veel meer dan bijvoorbeeld de Nobelprijs. Hoe komt dat? Het vlees beschrijft het leven van de Hongaarse István, dat begint in een appartementencomplex in de jaren tachtig en hem langs de loopgraven van Irak voert, de achterkamers van Londense nachtclubs en de marmeren foyers van de superrijken. Steeds opnieuw belandt hij op een kruispunt, zonder zelf een richting te kiezen. Van jonge minnaar tot soldaat, van uitsmijter tot bodyguard, van echtgenoot tot weduwnaar – Het vlees is het portret van een man die door het leven wordt voortgestuwd, machteloos tegenover zijn verlangens, zijn verleden en het toeval dat hem vormt. Szalays stijl is uitgebeend en sober en hoofdpersonage István lijkt geen rijke binnenwereld te hebben. Zo'n personage kom je in de literatuur maar weinig tegen. Maar is dit wellicht toch een rijke roman? Een luisteraar vraagt: wanneer mag je eigenlijk een oordeel geven over een boek? Kan dat al terwijl je het boek nog niet uit hebt? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Award-winning poet Mary Jean Chan on emotional truth in contemporary poetry, the imagery and juxtaposition that hold big feelings on the page, writing queerness, family and grief with care, and what submissions and prize judging reveal about poems that endure.You'll learn:Why emotional truth sits at the centre of Mary Jean's work and how you can use it as a compass in your own poems.How to move from a single striking line into a finished poem by working on rhythm, line breaks, and imagery.What juxtaposition and understatement can do for poems about grief and other intense subjects (and how to avoid tipping into melodrama).How to decide whether a memory or idea belongs in a poem, a short story, or another form.Ways to write about queerness, family, and other vulnerable themes while setting boundaries that protect your relationships and your wellbeing.How to approach submissions, rejections, and prize lists so they support a long-term poetry practice rather than define your worth.What reading and judging for major prizes can teach you about sentences, images, and books that stand out in a crowded field.How to sustain a poetry life alongside teaching, study, and care by staying attentive to everyday moments and small pockets of time.Resources and Links:

Die Hauptfigur des Romans “Was nicht gesagt werden kann” ist recht wortkarg, erlebt turbulente Ereignisse, hat viel Sex. Er wollte Drama und Alltag in seinem Werk miteinander versöhnen, erzählt David Szalay, der den Booker Prize dafür gewonnen hat. Szalay, David www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de, Lesart

Die Hauptfigur des Romans “Was nicht gesagt werden kann” ist recht wortkarg, erlebt turbulente Ereignisse, hat viel Sex. Er wollte Drama und Alltag in seinem Werk miteinander versöhnen, erzählt David Szalay, der den Booker Prize dafür gewonnen hat. Szalay, David www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de, Lesart

Anna and Geoff discuss their reaction to the 2025 Booker Prize winner, FLESH by David Szalay, and the winner of the Baillie Gifford prize for non-fiction, Australian author Helen Garner for her collection of diaries HOW TO END A STORY.   Our book of the week is CREATION LAKE by Rachel Kushner. Her follow-up novel after the Booker-shortlisted Mars Room, this centres on Sadie Smith, an undercover agent who infiltrates a commune in rural France. It was shortlisted for the 2024 Booker Prize.    This raised questions we weren't expecting from a literary novel, such as: Is it a spy thriller? Is Sadie enough of a slob to be compared with Jackson Lamb? Which Sesame Street character does Bruno remind us of?   Coming up: NESTING by Roisin O'Donnell Follow us! Email: Booksonthegopodcast@gmail.com Instagram: @abailliekaras  Substack: Books On The Go Credits Artwork: Sascha Wilkosz

Hello EICritical Thinkers & happy humping day (or whatever the saying is).This week we're discussing the apparent mass-vanishing act of male authors, after a piece for The Guardian suggested that David Szalay's Booker win has "put masculinity back at the centre of literary fiction." Oh! Ok!In a rebuttal for Vogue, author and friend of the podcast Eliza Clarke argues that it's time to put this debate to bed. She writes: “Male writers still continue to dominate literary awards. They make up a large portion of our bestsellers, all the while continuing to be viewed as more worthy and deserving of critical plaudits. Bernadine Evaristo remains the only Black woman to have won a Booker Prize, ever, and she had to share that win with Margaret Atwood.”With your help and takes we ask: is there any truth to it? And if so: what's driving women's dominion in literary fiction?Thanks for all of your thoughts as ever! Follow us on IG @everythingiscontentpod. Love O, R, B xLinks:Vogue - It's Time To Put The "Where Are All The Male Novelists" Debate To Bed Compact Mag - The Vanishing White Male WriterCurrent Affairs - The White Male Writer Is Fine I PromiseGQ - Why men need to read more novels The Guardian - Do we need more male novelists?VOX - What happened to the bestselling young white man? Unherd - How to read like a man? Wikipedia - Performative MaleThe Guardian - The truth about boys and books Substack - The dawn of the post-literate society Books mentioned:Open Water by Caleb Azumah NelsonAnna Karenina by Leo TolstoyBrooklyn by Colm TóibínAtonement by Ian McEwanNormal People by Sally Rooney Loren Ipsum by Andrew GallixFlesh by David SzalayCaledonian Road by Andrew O'Hagan Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Drunk Guys are Hungary for beer this week when they read Flesh by David Szalay, the winner of the 2025 Booker Prize. They are OK with: Cream on the Inside, Green on the Outside by Other Half and Cone Juice Concentrate by Other Half and Sapwood Cellars Brewery. Join

CBC Books' Ryan B. Patrick gives his take on Flesh, this year's Booker Prize winner. David Szalay's buzzy book follows the life of man from adolescence in Hungary to his wealthy middle age in London. Plus, writer Rabindranath Maharaj shares the most influential books in his life.Books discussed on this week's show include:Flesh by David SzalayA Quiet Disappearance by Rabindranath MaharajCoral Island by R. M. BallantyneWatchmen by Alan Moore, illustrated by Dave Gibbons, coloured by John HigginsOne Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel García MárquezA House for Mr Biswas by V.S. Naipaul

Lennie James is a British actor and writer. In 2025, he received the BAFTA for Leading Actor for his portrayal of Barrington Walker in the TV adaptation of Bernadine Evaristo's novel Mr. Loverman.This award adds to his collection, which also includes accolades for writing. At seventeen, he wrote Trial and Error and won the National Youth Theatre–Texaco Playwriting Competition, earning the title of Most Prominent Playwright Under 21.For a decade, Lennie played Morgan Jones in The Walking Dead and its spin-off Fear the Walking Dead, gaining such global recognition that he was even recognised by Vatican guards.He also created and starred in the critically acclaimed Sky Atlantic drama Save Me, which premiered in 2018. Its second season, Save Me Too, won the BAFTA TV Award for Best Drama Series in 2021.Raised by his mother Phyllis, who emigrated from Trinidad to work as a nurse, Lennie faced hardship after her death when he was eleven. He and his brother Kestor were placed in a children's home, and later Lennie moved into foster care after the home was sold by Wandsworth Council.Encouraged by a youth theatre group, Lennie pursued acting and later trained at the Guildhall School of Music and Drama in London.He met his wife, Giselle, at seventeen in the same youth theatre group. They have three daughters and divide their time between the US and the UK.DISC ONE: Touch The Hem Of His Garment - Gene Martin DISC TWO: I Found Lovin' - Fatback Band DISC THREE: Doesn't Make It Alright - The Specials DISC FOUR: Living For The City - Stevie Wonder DISC FIVE: Any Old Time - Artie Shaw and his Orchestra with Billie Holiday DISC SIX: For me... Formidable - Charles Aznavour DISC SEVEN: Champagne Supernova - Oasis DISC EIGHT: Try a Little Tenderness - Otis Redding BOOK CHOICE: The Collected Novels of Toni Morrison LUXURY ITEM: A guitar CASTAWAY'S FAVOURITE: For me... Formidable - Charles Aznavour Presenter: Lauren Laverne Producer: Sarah TaylorDesert Island Discs has cast many actors and writers away including the author of Mr. Loverman, Booker Prize winner Bernadine Evaristo and the creator of Line of Duty, Jed Mercurio. You can hear their programmes if you search through BBC Sounds or our own Desert Island Discs website.

Joseph O'Neill is the author of the novel Godwin, now available in trade paperback from Vintage. O'Neill was born in Ireland and grew up in Mozambique, Iran, Turkey, and Holland. His previous novels include the PEN/Faulkner Award–winning Netherland and the Booker Prize long-listed The Dog. O'Neill's short fiction appears regularly in The New Yorker and his political essays in The New York Review of Books. He lives in New York City. *** ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Otherppl with Brad Listi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a weekly podcast featuring in-depth interviews with today's leading writers. Available where podcasts are available: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, etc. Get ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠How to Write a Novel,⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ the debut audio course from DeepDive. 50+ hours of never-before-heard insight, inspiration, and instruction from dozens of today's most celebrated contemporary authors. Subscribe to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Brad's email newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Support the show on Patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Merch⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Email the show: letters [at] otherppl [dot] com The podcast is a ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠proud affiliate partner of Bookshop⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, working to support local, independent bookstores. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Georgina Godwin meets David Szalay, winner of the 2025 Booker Prize, at Charleston Literary Festival. They discuss his winning novel, Flesh, his connection to the UK, his multicultural upbringing and the prize’s impact.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Literature isn't a horse race. Taste is subjective, and artistic value can't be measured in terms of “winners" and “losers.”That doesn't mean it's not fun to try.The book world's awards season officially kicked off on Oct. 9, when the Hungarian novelist Laszlo Krasznahorkai won the 2025 Nobel Prize, and continued this month when the Booker Prize in England went to the novel “Flesh,” by the British writer David Szalay (also of Hungarian descent, as it happens). Then this week, five National Book Award winners were crowned in various categories at a ceremony in New York.On this episode of the podcast, the host MJ Franklin talks with his fellow Book Review editors Emily Eakin, Joumana Khatib and Dave Kim about the finalists, the winners and what this year's big book awards might tell us about the state of literature in 2025.We would love to hear your thoughts about this episode, and about the Book Review's podcast in general. You can send them to books@nytimes.com. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Nella carne dello scrittore canadese di origine ungherese David Szalay ha vinto il Booker prize, il più importante premio letterario del Regno Unito. Stile Alberto è un documentario che restituisce i tanti aspetti e le contraddizioni di Alberto Arbasino, uno dei più grandi intellettuali italiani della seconda metà del novecento. I fratelli Dardenne tornano nelle sale con un nuovo film intitolato Jeunes mères e dedicato alle storie di cinque ragazze madri. Sono stati pubblicati diversi brani inediti del periodo d'oro del grane pianista Bill Evans che ci fanno entrare nel vivo del processo creativo del più grande trio jazz della storia. CONFrancesco Pacifico, scrittoreMichele Masneri e Antongiulio Panizzi, sceneggiatori e registi Annalisa Camilli, giornalista di InternazionaleAlberto Riva, giornalista e scrittore che collabora con InternazionaleDua Lipa e David Szalay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mtIYqzJQXA Stile Alberto: https://www.raiplay.it/programmi/stilealbertoJeunes mères: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sCWhxQW0YwBill Evans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpVXH3Vm2wgCi piacerebbe sapere cosa pensi di questo episodio. Scrivici a podcast@internazionale.it Se ascolti questo podcast e ti piace, abbonati a Internazionale. È un modo concreto per sostenerci e per aiutarci a garantire ogni giorno un'informazione di qualità. Vai su internazionale.it/abbonatiConsulenza editoriale di Chiara NielsenProduzione di Claudio Balboni e Vincenzo De SimoneMusiche di Tommaso Colliva e Raffaele ScognaDirezione creativa di Jonathan Zenti

The 2025 Booker Prize went to Flesh, a novel about a Hungarian teenager who enters into an affair with a married woman, a relationship that will have consequences for the rest of his life. Author David Szalay discusses his book, fresh off his Booker win.

Leila Mottley was only 17 years-old when she wrote her debut novel, Nightcrawling … and she was 20 when she became the youngest author ever to make the Booker Prize longlist. After that incredible start, Leila is now back with her second novel, called The Girls Who Grew Big. It's about a group of young mothers who navigate growing up and raising children in a town that ostracizes them. This week, Leila joins Mattea to talk about the nuances of teen motherhood, why she's so focused on “home” and how she handles major success at a young age.Check out these prize-winning authors:What happens to fiction in times of war? For Indigenous players, ice hockey is a ceremony of its own

Host Jo Reed welcomes AudioFile publisher Michele Cobb to discuss three powerful memoirs, narrated by their authors. Booker Prize–winning writer Arundhati Roy returns with a complex look at her relationship with her challenging and ‘visionary,' mother in MOTHER MARY COMES TO ME; an unflinching, polarizing memoir about Elizabeth Gilbert's sex and love addiction in ALL THE WAY TO THE RIVER; and VAGABOND, a restrained dive into the long, varied career of inimitable actor Tim Curry. Read our reviews of the audiobooks at our website:  MOTHER MARY COMES TO ME: Published by Simon & Schuster Audio ALL THE WAY TO THE RIVER: Published by Penguin Audio VAGABOND: Published by Hachette Audio Discover thousands of audiobook reviews and more at AudioFile's website Support for AudioFile's Behind the Mic comes from HarperCollins Focus and HarperCollins Christian Publishing, publishers of some of your favorite audiobooks and authors, including Reba McEntire, Bob Goff, Kathie Lee Gifford, Max Lucado, Lysa TerKeurst, and so many more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From Buckingham Palace to the ballroom — Prince William sends sparkly wishes to Robert Irwin on Dancing with the Stars, proving even heirs to the throne love a little glitter. Queen Camilla hosts Sex and the City's Sarah Jessica Parker for the Booker Prize bash, then surprises everyone by soundtracking it with a Taylor Swift song. Sophie Winkleman calls royal life “total hell,” Meghan Markle's Montecito pop-up gets accused of selling unlicensed wine (spoiler: it was water), and Swift herself is reportedly plotting a lifestyle brand to outshine Meghan's As Ever.Hear our new show "Crown and Controversy: Prince Andrew" here.Check out "Palace Intrigue Presents: King WIlliam" here.

Vanessa Diaz sits in for Rebecca this week and talks to Jeff about the challenges of making a best books of the year list before getting into the news of the week. Follow the podcast via RSS, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify. Subscribe to The Book Riot Newsletter for regular updates to get the most out of your reading life. The Book Riot Podcast is a proud member of the Airwave Podcast Network. Discussed in this episode: Check out Zero to Well-Read! The Book Riot Podcast Patreon Amazon's best books of the year David Szalay has won the 2025 Booker Prize for his novel Flesh B&N's best book of the Year is Mona's Eyes The 2025 Goodreads Choice Awards.  I'm bookmarking this deep dive into the fashion industry's recurrent interest in literature for knife-and-fork reading this weekend Reader's Digest asked three professional designers to pick the best book covers of the year Kindle translate Somebody is Walking On Your Grave by Mariana Enriquez Stolen Crown by Tracy Borman Devouring Time by Tod Goddard One Day, Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This by Omar El Akkad The Loneliness of Sonia and Sunny by Kiran Desai Flashlight by Susan Choi This content contains affiliate links. When you buy through these links, we may earn an affiliate commission. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Georgina Godwin is joined by Kiran Desai, whose novel ‘The Loneliness of Sonia and Sunny’ was shortlisted for the 2025 Booker Prize. She discusses her New Delhi childhood, political unrest and the influence of her mother, Anita Desai.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

"If he feels talking about his favourite novel is politically disadvantageous, that's a sad state of affairs" - David Szalay on Keir Starmer's reading habits.--David Szalay is the winner of the 2025 Booker Prize for Fiction.He disputes claims that his novel, Flesh, is a tale of modern masculinity as reviewers have claimed. Though it certainly explores the male expression of emotion. In Flesh, Szalay's protagonist, István, navigates sexual grooming, violence and prison before rising to the ranks of the super-rich - narrating his story in economical, tightly packed sentences.Nicholas Harris met Szalay in London shortly after his win. They discuss the role of the novel, Szalay's "post-brexit" identity as a "European author", and why the Prime Minister should be reading more.LISTEN AD-FREE:

A new week means new questions! Hope you have fun with these!Mn is the chemical symbol for which element?Nancy Cartwright, the voice of Bart Simpson, is the Aunt of what pop star who just released her seventh studio album, "Man's Best Friend"?Switching from overhead to an isometric view, which 1993 game was released as a sequel to the original SimCity?Aleppo is the largest city in which country?What rags to riches story by David Szalay just won the 2025 Booker Prize?Enjoy a Freshmaker while visiting this 555 foot tall shining white obelisk in the middle of the National Mall of Washington DC.In the TV show "Friends", what is the name of Central Perk's main barista, played by actor James Michael Tyler?With over 400 active volcanoes, what is the most geologically active object in the Solar System?Miroslav Klose, Ronaldo, Gerd Müller and Just Fontaine are the top four scorers in what event?According to an over the counter product's ads from the 1970s, "How do you spell relief"?With over 800 species, what type of crab lives in a cast-off mollusc shell?"Into the Woods", "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum" and "Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street" are all musicals with music and lyrics by which composer?What Renowned painter of classical and mythological scenes — works like Flaming June and The Return of Persephone, was the first painter to be given a peerage title and only held it for one day before his death, the shortest in history?Which branch of mathematics is latin for "small pebble"?What Spanish sauce containing roasted peppers, almonds, garlic, & tomatoes sounds very similar to a member of the broccoli family?In 1779, where did Captain James Cook die?MusicHot Swing, Fast Talkin, Bass Walker, Dances and Dames, Ambush by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/Don't forget to follow us on social media:Patreon – patreon.com/quizbang – Please consider supporting us on Patreon. Check out our fun extras for patrons and help us keep this podcast going. We appreciate any level of support!Website – quizbangpod.com Check out our website, it will have all the links for social media that you need and while you're there, why not go to the contact us page and submit a question!Facebook – @quizbangpodcast – we post episode links and silly lego pictures to go with our trivia questions. Enjoy the silly picture and give your best guess, we will respond to your answer the next day to give everyone a chance to guess.Instagram – Quiz Quiz Bang Bang (quizquizbangbang), we post silly lego pictures to go with our trivia questions. Enjoy the silly picture and give your best guess, we will respond to your answer the next day to give everyone a chance to guess.Twitter – @quizbangpod We want to start a fun community for our fellow trivia lovers. If you hear/think of a fun or challenging trivia question, post it to our twitter feed and we will repost it so everyone can take a stab it. Come for the trivia – stay for the trivia.Ko-Fi – ko-fi.com/quizbangpod – Keep that sweet caffeine running through our body with a Ko-Fi, power us through a late night of fact checking and editing!

Grace Lin and Alvina Ling discuss how regret factors into their decision making, and they discuss five styles of decision making, and which style they both fall under. They also talk about the endowment effect and how that factors into their decision making, and their feelings about making mistakes and whether they consider themselves to be careless or careful. For the Fortune Cookie segment, they discuss various pieces of publishing news, including a follow up on the closing of Baker & Taylor, a new Dr. Seuss book discovered, and the announcement of a Children's Booker Prize. They end as always with what they're grateful for. Click here to become a Patreon member: https://www.patreon.com/Bookfriendsforever1.  See info about Grace's new book "The Gate, the Girl, and the Dragon": https://linktr.ee/gracelinauthor.  Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Bookfriendsforever_podcast  Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bookfriendsforever_podcast/ https://shop.carlemuseum.org/product/ling-tings-lunar-new-year-two-times-lucky-hardcover

This week, how well does Alan Hollinghurst's novel The Line of Beauty translate to the stage? And Toby Lichtig interviews the newest winner of the Booker Prize, David Szalay.'The Line of Beauty', by Jack Holden, based on the novel by Alan Hollinghurst, Almeida Theatre, London, until November 29'Flesh', by David SzalayProduced by Charlotte Pardy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Explore this year's Booker Prize shortlist on the latest episode of the Book Club Review! Hosts Kate and Laura and contributors Phil Chaffee and Martin Vovk discuss and debate the six shortlisted novels.Listen in to hear our predictions, and then find out our reaction to the winner as we listen in to the live Booker Prize ceremony. We won't spoil the plots for you, just whet your appetite to read some or all of the books, all of which make for brilliant discussion.BooklistPaddy Clark, Ha, H, Ha by Roddy DoyleLincoln in the Bardo by George SaundersFlesh by David SzalayAll That Man Is by David SzalayStarling House by Alex E. HarrowAny Human Heart by William BoydThe Rest of Our Lives by Benjamin MarkowitzCarmageddon by Daniel KnowlesYou Don't Have To Live Like This by Benjamin MarkowitzOh William by Elizabeth StroutAll Fours by Miranda JulyThe Loneliness of Sonia and Sunny by Kiran DesaiThe Inheritance of Loss by Kiran DesaiAudition by Katie KitamuraOrbital by Samantha HarveyFlashlight by Susan ChoiNothing to Envy by Barbara DemickPachinko by Min Jin LeeThe White Tiger by Aravind AdigaProphet Song by Paul LynchSeascraper by Benjamin WoodBooker Longlist episodeEpisode 181 of The Book Club ReviewMartin's Eyes On the Prize blogBrowse Martin's archive and discover his extensive reviews (including The Women's Prize) here.PatreonHead to www.patreon.com/thebookclubreview for all the benefits (extra shows, readalongs, book club and more) and how to sign up.Serious ReadersTo take advantage of the special offer code for any Serious Readers HD Essential Reading Light head to SeriousReaders.com/bcr and use the code BCR at checkoutInstagramFollow Kate for updates between shows @bookclubreviewpodcastSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Booker Prize is one of the world’s most prestigious literary awards, given annually to a single novel written in English and published in the United Kingdom or Ireland. This year’s winner is David Szalay's novel, “Flesh.” Senior arts correspondent Jeffrey Brown spoke with him for our arts and culture series, CANVAS. PBS News is supported by - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/about/funders. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy

The US says Syria is joining the international coalition to combat the Islamic State group, and Damascus is resuming diplomatic relations with Washington. The announcement came hours after Donald Trump met the Syrian president, Ahmed al-Sharaa, at the White House, describing him as a strong leader. President Trump said he wanted Syria to be a "big part" of his plan for a wider Middle East peace. Also: The Indian capital, Delhi, is on high alert after a deadly explosion. The woman known as the "Chinese Cryptoqueen" is due to be sentenced for stealing billions of dollars from investors. And the novel "Flesh", by David Szalay wins the Booker Prize, Britain's most prestigious award for literary fiction. The Global News Podcast brings you the breaking news you need to hear, as it happens. Listen for the latest headlines and current affairs from around the world. Politics, economics, climate, business, technology, health – we cover it all with expert analysis and insight. Get the news that matters, delivered twice a day on weekdays and daily at weekends, plus special bonus episodes reacting to urgent breaking stories. Follow or subscribe now and never miss a moment. Get in touch: globalpodcast@bbc.co.uk

The Senate passed a deal to end the shutdown, but air travel could take a while to recover even after the government reopens. The Washington Post’s Lori Aratani joins to discuss the roadblocks ahead for the aviation industry. Two top executives at the BBC resigned after a scandal involving a misleading story about Trump. CNN’s Brian Stelter explains how it went down. Car-loan delinquency rates are reaching record highs and those in the automotive-recovery industry are feeling the pinch. Scott Calvert at the Wall Street Journal details what it all means for the larger economy. Plus, Trump hosted Syria’s new leader at the White House, the Supreme Court will take up the legality of mail-in ballots, and why this year’s Booker Prize winner could be truly unique. Today’s episode was hosted by Shumita Basu.

Indian officials say at least twelve people have now died in Monday's car explosion in Delhi. Reports in the Indian media say that investigators suspect a Delhi-based Kashmiri doctor was in the driver's seat. There's also been an explosion near a crowded courthouse in neighbouring Pakistan today.Also in the programme: voting is underway in Iraq to choose a new parliament as both Iran and the US vie for influence; the new research that suggests that speaking more than one language could delay the ageing process; and we speak to this year's Booker Prize winner. (Picture: Security personnel and members of the forensic team work at the site of an explosion near the historic Red Fort in India. Credit: REUTERS/Adnan Abid)

The Drunk Guys feel less lonely with beer this week when they read The Loneliness of Sonia and Sunny by Kiran Desai. They feel more sunny after drinking: Hop Duos by Other Half, Can I Get a Witness by Van Ewing Brewing, and ETNYC Proudly Presents The Real Mexican Cake

Our November Get Lit with All Of It book club selection is the novel Flashlight by Susan Choi. The novel is a finalist for the Booker Prize, and tells the story of a family reeling after the strange disappearance of their father and husband. Click here to find more information about our Get Lit event, and to find out how to borrow your e-copy courtesy of our partners at the New York Public Library.

Salman Rushdie is one of the world's most acclaimed, award-winning contemporary authors.  Translated into over forty languages, his sixteen works of fiction include Midnight's Children – for which he won the Booker Prize in 1981, the Booker of Bookers on the 25th anniversary of the prize and Best of the Booker on the 40th anniversary – Shame, The Satanic Verses, Quichotte and Victory City. His latest non-fiction book, Knife: Meditations After an Attempted Murder was a number one Sunday Times bestseller. A former president of PEN American Center, Rushdie was knighted in 2007 for services to literature and was made a Companion of Honour in the Queen's last Birthday Honours list in 2022. In this episode, Rushdie sits down with broadcaster and journalist Kavita Puri to discuss his reflections on legacy, mortality, and returning to fiction in his new short story collection The Eleventh Hour. The stories in The Eleventh Hour span the three countries that Rushdie has called home – India, England and America – and explore what it means to approach the eleventh hour of life.  If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The museum displays, for the first time, the entire contents of Tutankhamun's tomb, along with some 100,000 artefacts covering seven millennia of the country's history. We hear from the renowned Egyptologist Dr Zahi Hawass, a former Egyptian minister and one of the prime movers behind the museum.Also in the programme, the incumbent president of Tanzania has been declared the official winner of controversial national elections, after days of violence; the sixty-something British man who is running the equivalent of 200 marathons in 200 days; and an interview with the writer Kiran Desai, whose latest novel, her first in almost twenty years, is on the shortlist of the Booker Prize.(Photo: Final preparations ahead of the opening of Grand Egyptian Museum, Giza, Egypt - 01 Nov 2025; Credit: MOHAMED HOSSAM/EPA/Shutterstock)

Venezuela's president accuses the Trump administration of fabricating a war in sending a naval strike force to the Caribbean to lead its controversial sea campaign against alleged drug traffickers. Also: Ukraine's allies pledge to take Russian oil and gas off the market to pressure Vladimir Putin to end the war; calls grow for more humanitarian corridors in Gaza as 15,000 Palestinians wait for medical evacuation; the US places sanctions on the president of Colombia; Thailand's Queen Mother Sirikit dies at the age of 93; the Children's Booker Prize is launched; and we delve into the murky world of art forgery. The Global News Podcast brings you the breaking news you need to hear, as it happens. Listen for the latest headlines and current affairs from around the world. Politics, economics, climate, business, technology, health – we cover it all with expert analysis and insight. Get the news that matters, delivered twice a day on weekdays and daily at weekends, plus special bonus episodes reacting to urgent breaking stories. Follow or subscribe now and never miss a moment. Get in touch: globalpodcast@bbc.co.uk

*This is a teaser for this Patreon and Substack-only bonus episode, click here to listen to the full episode*In this bonus episode, I chat with author Kiley Reid for the inside scoop on the Booker Prize, an annual literary award given to the best fiction book written in English and published in the UK and Ireland. As a 2025 judge—and the author of a 2020 Booker Prize-longlisted book—Kiley offers insider knowledge on everything from what makes a "Booker book" to the process of narrowing down the list from 153 titles to one winner.You can find links to everything we discuss on today's show on The Stacks Website: https://www.thestackspodcast.com/unabridged/2025/10/24/tsu-52-kiley-reidConnect with Kiley: Website | Instagram | TwitterConnect with The Stacks: Instagram | Twitter | Shop | Patreon | Goodreads | SubscribeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.