Podcasts about Montecito

Q new celebrity gossip report claims Taylor Swift is furious after comments about her wedding guest list, and Meghan Markle unexpectedly finds herself pulled into the story. Plus, Harry and Meghan's final Montecito days, questions over the future of their California mansion, explosive new Radar claims about Queen Camilla and Harry, fresh scrutiny of Prince Andrew, and reports that Sarah Ferguson has quietly taken refuge in Portugal.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/palace-intrigue-harry-meghan-the-crown-royal-family-news-and-gossip--4522904/support.Palace Intrigue is a daily British royal family podcast covering King Charles, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry, Kate Middleton and the House of Windsor. New episodes every day. Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Part of the Caloroga Shark Media network.

Prince Harry and Meghan Markle are packing their bags for the U.K., but the royal welcome mat is nowhere in sight. King Charles made it official this week: no royal titles, no special treatment, and definitely no VIP perks for “Prince Ginger Balls” and “Duchess of Montecito.” Kennedy Now Available on YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.podtrac.com/kstw_yt⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow on TikTok:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@kennedy_foxnews⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join Kennedy for Happy Hour on Fridays!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWlNiiSXX4BNUbXM5X8KkYbDepFgUIVZj⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Prince Harry and Meghan Markle are facing criticism as they search for a British home while keeping their Montecito base and American businesses. Meanwhile, Nikki Glaser admits she didn’t even know Taylor Swift before scoring an invite to her star-studded wedding to Travis Kelce. And Bravo has officially cut ties with Below Deck Mediterranean star Nathan Gallagher following his domestic violence arrest. Rob’s latest exclusives and insider reporting can be found at robshuter.substack.com My new novel, Queen Elizabeth III, is available for pre-order right nowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Meghan Markle's return to Britain could reportedly put her back into the same social orbit as former friend Victoria Beckham, with claims their relationship remains deeply strained years after the Sussex-Beckham falling-out. Meanwhile, another report claims Harry and Meghan abandoned plans for a star-studded California farewell party after celebrity friends proved difficult to pin down. We also look at whether the Sussexes will avoid a potentially explosive Sandringham Christmas by returning to California with Doria Ragland, what could happen to their forty-million-dollar Montecito mansion, Meghan's reported demands for a nine-bedroom UK home and studio, and warnings that her return could eventually produce another royal tell-all.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/palace-intrigue-harry-meghan-the-crown-royal-family-news-and-gossip--4522904/support.Palace Intrigue is a daily British royal family podcast covering King Charles, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry, Kate Middleton and the House of Windsor. New episodes every day. Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Part of the Caloroga Shark Media network.

Prince Harry and Meghan Markle are reportedly staying indefinitely at a wealthy friend's property while searching for a permanent British home, with Meghan said to want nine bedrooms and studio space and Harry prioritizing privacy and extensive grounds. Friends describe the move as “Finding Freedom 2” and say Archie and Lilibet's education and a more outdoors-focused childhood are central to the decision. But reports also claim Harry still expects an apology from the Royal Family and remains angry about the same issues that fueled Megxit. Plus, Meghan could make an early UK appearance at a Princess Diana event, while neighbors in Montecito offer a less-than-sentimental farewell to the Sussexes' California chapter.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/palace-intrigue-harry-meghan-the-crown-royal-family-news-and-gossip--4522904/support.Palace Intrigue is a daily British royal family podcast covering King Charles, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry, Kate Middleton and the House of Windsor. New episodes every day. Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Part of the Caloroga Shark Media network.

Justin Bieber Biography Flash a weekly Biography. September 2, 2026, and Justin Bieber's last few days have been a mix of polished romance, viral drama, and some quietly big moves in his business universe, all of it biographically significant for a star in his early thirties pivoting into veteran-era fame. Over the weekend, Justin and Hailey Bieber were front and center at Finneas O'Connell and Claudia Sulewski's wedding in Montecito, California, a star-studded event where he traded streetwear for a sharp black suit and dark sunglasses, while Hailey turned heads in a citrus-toned dress. Geo.tv and People-style coverage report that Justin shared a series of glam selfies from the ceremony on Instagram, captioned simply with red heart emojis, reinforcing the public narrative of a united, camera-ready power couple. However, footage and photos from the same wedding triggered a fresh wave of marriage speculation. Outlets like The Blast and other entertainment sites describe an “intense” or “animated” exchange between Justin and Hailey, followed by the two walking away in opposite directions, which some tabloids framed as a potential fight and used to revive long‑running split rumors. A Taiwanese entertainment report from United Daily News likewise notes that while Hailey appeared emotional and gesturing, there has been no statement from the couple, and the imagery alone cannot confirm whether it was a serious argument or just a heated conversation. Other commentators, including anonymous sources cited by gossip insiders, insist they were not fighting and point to Justin's affectionate wedding selfies as a counterweight. That discrepancy is important: the argument narrative is speculative and unconfirmed, while the affectionate posts are verified. Beyond that flare-up, recent weeks show Justin leaning into the family-man chapter of his biography. Entertainment coverage notes that he and Hailey recently celebrated their son Jack Blues's second birthday, with Hailey posting family photos and Justin sharing summer snapshots from a lake getaway, a Dodgers game, and a boat day, all filled with PDA and a relaxed, domestic tone that contrasts sharply with the old teen-idol image. On the business side, lifestyle and culture outlets report that Justin's independent brand SKYLRK has been teasing new Y2K-inspired audio products, including a tiny MP3 player and neon headphones, suggesting a deliberate push into nostalgic tech-fashion that could shape his post‑music legacy. Thanks for listening, and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an update on Justin Bieber, and search the term Biography Flash for more great biographies. Thanks for listening. This has been a Quiet Please production. Get the best deals https://amzn.to/3ODvOta

Daejon Love scammed women by pretending to be an NFL player, Eli Zaret stops by, Howard Stern trades Howard 101 for HBO, Lindsay Clancy crazies, Death of a Pastor's Wife on Netflix, Corey Feldman fibs, and no Hooters for Brian Hickerson. Eli Zaret joins the show today to declare the Detroit Tigers finished for the third time this season, the ending of Justin Verlander's career, the glorious return of College Football, USC's poor attendance, UM & MSU predictions, elderly CFB players, never-ending drama in the WNBA, Deshaun Watson's triumphant return, Green Bay Packers Josh Jacobs legal issues, Aaron Donald comes out of retirement, CTE ravaging former NFL players, Cowboys rookie Shiyazh Pete's trailblazing and more. Dolly Parton: Garth Brooks' daughter made Dolly's death all about her. CNN had to apologize after eulogizing Dolly with an incorrect photo. Dolly's charting like crazy. She once did a duet with Pee Wee Herman. Barbara Walters hated Dolly. Howard 101 is now Andy Cohen 101 on SiriusXM. Stern apparently has an HBO deal.  Drew breaks down the good and bad in the world today. Zohran Mamdani mourns a murderer. Lindsay Clancy fans are out of control. Karen Read fans have a new hero. 85-year-old Donna Mills is raking in the dough on OnlyFans. Meanwhile, Honey Boo Boo's fat sister is getting other gigs due to her OnlyFans earnings. Brooklyn Beckham and Nicola Peltz are the most annoying nepo-couple ever. Brian Hickerson is not welcome at Hooters or Twin Peaks. Former NFL player, Alan Page, is a judge now. Hopefully he doesn't have CTE. Daejon Love scammed a bunch of chicks by pretending to be a wide receiver for the San Francisco 49ers. Drew and Marc recommend Untold: The Testimony of Vince Young on Netflix. Robert De Niro stars in The Whisper Man. Spoiler: It sucks. Death of the Pastor's Wife on Netflix covers the sad tale of Mica Miller. Blake Lively posted about Hayden Panettiere and Michelle Trachtenberg saying "Be Kind" and it doesn't go well. Blake Lively wanted $8M from Justin Baldoni but only got $400K. She calls it a "win". Hugh Jackman still loves her. The 'It Ends With Justice: Justin Baldoni vs Blake Lively' doc is available now. Drew's stream is excellent thanks to Flomax. Markleverse: Meghan and Harry are booed in the UK. Montecito is glad to see the couple out of their town. The poor UK has to deal with her now and they're not happy about it. Fergie has weaseled her way back in the country under the cover of Harry and Meghan. Ian Wace funded the royal losers trip back to the UK because they don't pay for anything. We're hoping the citizens of the UK rise up against them. We learn that they give nauseating hugs. Corey Feldman clips continue to leak from Corey Feldman vs The World. Jim & Them may be responsible for the famous Monster Truck attack. Alabama Barker is accused of cultural appropriation. Nice parenting, Travis. Kylie Jenner wants bigger boobs. Better Half with Stas & Vic had Kylie on their crappy podcast. Stas & Vic are hot, but suck at their job. Hot privilege is rampant. Merch is available if you want to rep the show. You'd look amazing too. If you'd like to help support the show… consider subscribing to our YouTube Channel, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter (Drew Lane, Marc Fellhauer, Trudi Daniels, Jim Bentley, BranDon, and Roberto).

Prince Harry and Meghan Markle are back in the United Kingdom—but is their return really about the children, or is something much bigger happening behind the scenes? Tudor Dixon is joined by British journalist and Outspoken host Dan Wootton for an explosive conversation about Harry and Meghan’s reported return to the UK, the state of their marriage, and what could come next for the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. Wootton argues that Harry and Meghan have been living through an increasingly troubled marriage and explains why their move could mark the beginning of an effective “trial separation,” with Harry focused on life in Britain and Meghan potentially spending significant time back in Montecito. The two also examine what the move could mean for Archie and Lilibet, Harry’s relationship with King Charles, and the possibility of a future custody battle. They also dig into Harry’s fractured relationship with Prince William and Catherine, Princess of Wales; whether the Royal Family could ever welcome Harry back; Meghan’s future without the monarchy; and why Wootton believes Prince William could take a much tougher approach to Harry and Meghan when he becomes king. Plus, Tudor and Dan revisit the infamous Oprah interview, Harry’s memoir Spare, the brothers’ longtime rivalry, Meghan’s relationship with royal staff, and how Harry went from one of Britain’s most popular royals to one of its most controversial figures. Could Harry and Meghan ultimately divorce? Can Harry repair his relationship with the Royal Family—or have too many lines already been crossed? And could their return to Britain set the stage for the next major royal family showdown? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Could Meghan Markle and Kim Kardashian be competing for a role in Guy Ritchie's The Gentlemen? Is Meghan genuinely returning to acting—or are both sides using the media to influence negotiations as the Netflix series launches its second season?Reports suggest Harry and Meghan may also be considering projects with the BBC and other British broadcasters. Could Prince Harry build his own television career? Richard Osman proposes putting him on The Wheel or creating a feel-good series called Harry's Special Forces, pairing the Duke with military veterans on community projects.Plus, does Gayle King know that Meghan's return may be temporary? Can the “old Harry” win back the British public? Could he eventually become a wingman to King William? And how much will it cost the Sussexes to maintain homes in Montecito, Portugal and Britain while paying for security, staff, international travel and Harry's legal obligations?Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/palace-intrigue-harry-meghan-the-crown-royal-family-news-and-gossip--4522904/support.Palace Intrigue is a daily British royal family podcast covering King Charles, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry, Kate Middleton and the House of Windsor. New episodes every day. Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Part of the Caloroga Shark Media network.

HARRY AND MEGHAN ARE HOME — AND THE WEEK EVERYONE TRIED TO SELL A PIECE OF DIANAMark Francis on the week the rumour became a runway. The Sussexes flew privately into Birmingham before midday Wednesday with Archie, 7, and Lilibet, 5, and their dogs; the chickens stayed in Montecito. They'll live at a private property in the Cotswolds as non-working royals, with the children starting British schools next week. There was no visible police presence at the airport, and nobody will say who is paying for protection. Plus: twenty-nine years since Paris, Earl Spencer's memoir, a Reagan Library exhibition, and the costs order in the Daily Mail case.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/palace-intrigue-harry-meghan-the-crown-royal-family-news-and-gossip--4522904/support.Palace Intrigue is a daily British royal family podcast covering King Charles, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry, Kate Middleton and the House of Windsor. New episodes every day. Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Part of the Caloroga Shark Media network.

How much did Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's private flight back to Britain cost? What was its environmental impact—and where have the Duke and Duchess of Sussex taken Prince Archie, Princess Lilibet and their dogs after landing in Birmingham?New clues suggest the Sussexes may have settled near Chipping Norton in the northern Cotswolds, placing them close to King Charles III at Highgrove. How do local residents feel about Harry and Meghan becoming their neighbors—and could Sussex tourism create a Jeremy Clarkson-style traffic problem?Plus, Meghan faces criticism after As Ever continued promoting its new Spiced Apple Butter following Dolly Parton's death; a source makes new claims about the Duchess's difficulty hiring Montecito housekeepers; and King Charles announces a major Caribbean tour amid speculation about his health.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/palace-intrigue-harry-meghan-the-crown-royal-family-news-and-gossip--4522904/support.Palace Intrigue is a daily British royal family podcast covering King Charles, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry, Kate Middleton and the House of Windsor. New episodes every day. Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Part of the Caloroga Shark Media network.

This PRmoment News Review opens with Ben Smith framing three big themes of the week: the return of Harry and Meghan to the UK, Meta's eye‑watering $18 billion settlement with dozens of US states, and an uneasy communications environment around Russia, Ukraine and NATO. Here are some highlights from this week's episode:“Harry is built for purpose, he's built for service, and being stuck out under an orange tree in Montecito is hardly fulfilling for someone who still has a lot to give to this country.” – Mark Borkowski [0:02:48]“I think the days of the paid influencer are changing… a lot of them are just on the make, on the take – they're not authentic partners.” – Angie Moxham [0:12:40]“Facebook was always going to be more toxic than big tobacco, and it's clearly proved to be the case.” – Mark Borkowski [0:08:13]“Eighteen billion sounds a lot to us, but it's a drop in the ocean to Zuckerberg – I'm glad he had his ass slapped, but it hasn't gone far enough.” – Angie Moxham [0:11:08]“Social media is now a utility – it's as important as water, heat and food in our lives, so it's going nowhere.” – Angie Moxham [0:12:40]“The Royal Family has survived Wallis Simpson and Princess Diana, and it will survive Meghan Markle – its prime concern is to keep the institution alive and relevant.” – Mark Borkowski [0:05:47]“UK society doesn't seem to be ready for any sort of hardship – we've become incredibly complacent.” – Angie Moxham [0:17:04]“The fabric of society is more likely to be broken by cutting our digital umbilical cords – the undersea cables, the ATMs, the supply chains – than by nuclear weapons flying across our skies.” – Mark Borkowski [0:18:06]Across the episode, Ben, Angie Moxham and Mark Borkowski keep circling back to power, ego and the fragility of modern institutions – from the Royal Family to social platforms and digital infrastructure.On Harry and Meghan, Mark argues the comeback has been handled with precision PR. The story is seeded in the US, the Telegraph and key West Coast outlets so that, by the time Britain wakes up, the narrative is everywhere. He sees the move as a smart test of the UK market and a reaction to things “not working” in America. In his view, Harry is “built for service”, and life “under an orange tree in Montecito” was never going to be enough. He also points to worries about US gun crime in schools and the King's poor health as likely drivers of a return.Angie is more sceptical that this signals long-term reconciliation. She reads it as a short-term move shaped by Charles's health and by Meghan wanting to be a “big fish in a small pond” after an underwhelming US celebrity run. For Angie, the deeper blocker will be William's character: she paints him as stubborn and profoundly wounded by Harry's book and its challenge to the fabric of the monarchy. While Mark insists “anything is retrievable” given the brothers' shared trauma and the institutional resilience of the Royal Family, Angie feels the relationship is fundamentally broken, even if everyone can fake unity for PR optics.The conversation then pivots to Meta's $18 billion settlement. Ben notes the paradox that Meta's share price rose after the deal, despite the size of the fine and the absence of any admission of wrongdoing. Mark characterises Facebook and Meta as structurally “more toxic than big tobacco”, driven by profit with no real social value. He cites whistleblower literature that details knowing failures to protect children and sees the settlement, plus Meta's open letter inviting TikTok and YouTube into a “better internet”, as a reputational sugar rush that tries to shift blame onto rivals while preserving a rotten culture.Angie agrees that, in Meta terms, $18 billion is a slap rather than a reckoning. She makes the point that social platforms could, technically, make themselves less addictive but won't. For her, social media is now a utility – as essential as electricity water and food – which makes genuine disengagement impossible. She also suggests the era of the paid influencer is waning as audiences increasingly view them as inauthentic, with brand spend cycling back towards big, bankable celebrities.The final section zooms out to geopolitical risk. Mark, casting himself as a “Cold War baby”, worries less about nuclear war than about asymmetric attacks on digital and infrastructure systems: undersea cables, ATMs, the NHS, supply chains.Angie notes repeated tabloid stories urging people to “stock up”, plus recent emergency alerts, as unsettling signals. Both suggest the UK public is complacent and unprepared for real disruption, while Russia's messaging and capabilities point towards a future where the most effective attacks target connectivity and the fabric of civil society rather than physical territory.Support the show

Are Prince Harry and Meghan Markle truly moving back to Britain—or could Harry spend months in the Cotswolds while Meghan remains primarily in California? How long is the Sussexes' “extended period” in the UK, and do even they know whether it will last six months, one year or longer?We examine Harry's determination to establish a British base, Meghan's new friendship with Geri Halliwell-Horner, and reports that Netflix cameras could document the family's return. Is the Sussex homecoming really becoming a new television series?Plus: Was Meghan ever offered a role in Guy Ritchie's The Gentlemen? Was “ActingGate” a genuine negotiation, an audience test or a carefully engineered publicity campaign? What is Meghan teasing for As Ever? Why is Harry leaving the African Parks board? And which Sussex pets are coming to Britain—with the Montecito chickens apparently staying behind?Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/palace-intrigue-harry-meghan-the-crown-royal-family-news-and-gossip--4522904/support.Palace Intrigue is a daily British royal family podcast covering King Charles, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry, Kate Middleton and the House of Windsor. New episodes every day. Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Part of the Caloroga Shark Media network.

This week's episode starts by looking at an all too common problem in modern politics… angry, white, liberal women. To make sense of it all we're joined by our good friend journalist Jenny Holland. We start this week's show working with Jenny trying to make sense of a world where women idolize a stranger who killed her own children. This army of Liberal women rush to either blame the husband, invent conspiracies, or otherwise absolve a woman from blame for the worst crime imaginable.We examine the death of the disgraced former Cambridge professor Jason Arday, once celebrated as the university's youngest Black professor and a DEI trophy. Found dead in Battersea aged 41, it is widely believed he took his own life after his fabricated life story, extreme plagiarism, and extraordinary claims (marathons on a broken leg, millions raised for charity, late literacy, etc.) collapsed. You can read my Substack article about it from the link below. Jenny and I ask the question the establishment avoids: who put an unstable man on a pedestal he could never sustain and what role did they play in his death.Watch the podcast for the full, unfiltered discussion of how DEI kills.Harry and Meghan are reportedly heading home – after failing to build real careers in Montecito. We reveal why their US projects flopped. Quite simply they chose to live in a retirement community instead of a creative one, skipped the hard work, produced staggeringly fake content, and treated everything as a prop for their own glory. What could possibly go wrong. And we ask: Is Meghan one of the strangest, most off-putting celebrities of our time? Watch the podcast to hear why their return to a poorer, angrier Britain looks like another spectacular misreading of the room.*****************************************************To Donate: https://secure.anedot.com/unreported-story-society/main_donate_2026 Projects You Need to Check Out: https://unreportedstorysociety.com/our-projects/ Guest: Jenny HollandSocial Tags: X: @SemperFemina21Instagram: @jennyeholland Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jenny.holland.180?mibextid=wwXIfr&mibextid=wwXIfr YouTube: https://m.youtube.com/@SavingCultureFromItself?ra=m Substack: jennyeholland.substack.com Ann & Phelim SocialsPhelim's X: (https://x.com/PhelimMcAleer)Ann's X: (https://x.com/annmcelhinney)USS SocialsInsta: (https://www.instagram.com/unreportedstorysociety/)Facebook: (https://www.facebook.com/TheAPScoop/)X: (https://x.com/AP_Unreported)*****************************************************

Prince Harry and Meghan Markle have arrived in the UK with Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet—but how long are the Duke and Duchess of Sussex planning to stay? Did their private flight from California cost as much as $300,000, and what was its environmental impact?A friend of Harry's claims the Duke plans to remain in Britain for at least 12 to 15 years, spending his weekends watching Archie play rugby while Meghan maintains a more international career. Will Harry become a stay-at-home father? Are Archie and Lilibet attending the same British private school? And did King Charles III and Prince William know about the move months earlier?We also examine concerns about the renewed British media attention surrounding Meghan, unconfirmed claims that the Sussex marriage is under strain, and the latest twist in Meghan's possible role in Guy Ritchie's The Gentlemen. Plus: “Egg-xit” for the Montecito chickens—and the Royal Family's musical tribute to Dolly Parton.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/palace-intrigue-harry-meghan-the-crown-royal-family-news-and-gossip--4522904/support.Palace Intrigue is a daily British royal family podcast covering King Charles, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry, Kate Middleton and the House of Windsor. New episodes every day. Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Part of the Caloroga Shark Media network.

Why are Prince Harry and Meghan Markle leaving California? Did the Sussexes run out of momentum in Hollywood? Was Harry desperately lonely in Montecito—and are their neighbors really pleased to see them go?As Jennie Bond warns against a new “pile-on” against Meghan, American commentators including Megyn Kelly, Meghan McCain and allies of Donald Trump celebrate the couple's departure. Hollywood sources claim Harry and Meghan never established a clear identity outside the Royal Family, while Montecito residents accuse them of entitlement and creating endless drama.We examine whether Harry was always destined to return to Britain, why Meghan may be making a major sacrifice for her family, and what the move will mean for Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet. Could the children finally develop relationships with King Charles, Prince George, Princess Charlotte and Prince Louis? Will Meghan and Princess Catherine arrange royal playdates? And how will Prince William react when the brother he no longer trusts is suddenly living nearby?Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/palace-intrigue-harry-meghan-the-crown-royal-family-news-and-gossip--4522904/support.Palace Intrigue is a daily British royal family podcast covering King Charles, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry, Kate Middleton and the House of Windsor. New episodes every day. Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Part of the Caloroga Shark Media network.

Are financial pressures behind Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's return to the UK? How much money did the Sussexes actually receive from Netflix? Could Harry face a multimillion-dollar legal bill—and is Meghan returning to acting for a new British production?Page Six reports that Harry and Meghan are not broke, but their Montecito mortgages, private security, household staff and properties in California and Portugal create enormous expenses. Meanwhile, sources around Prince William reportedly suspect that money, inheritance and proximity to King Charles III may all be part of the calculation.We examine Tina Brown's claim that Meghan has landed a new role, whether Harry is trying to return before William becomes King, and Robert Jobson's theory that Megxit is becoming “Regrexit.” Plus: Must Harry publicly apologize to William? Could the Sussexes spend Christmas with the Royal Family? And does Doria Ragland's decision to remain in California mean Harry is bringing Archie and Lilibet back to Britain primarily to reconnect with the Spencers?Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/palace-intrigue-harry-meghan-the-crown-royal-family-news-and-gossip--4522904/support.Palace Intrigue is a daily British royal family podcast covering King Charles, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry, Kate Middleton and the House of Windsor. New episodes every day. Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Part of the Caloroga Shark Media network.

HARRY AND MEGHAN ARE MOVING BACK TO BRITAIN — AND NOBODY WILL SAY WHO PAYS FOR THE SECURITYMark Francis on the week the one fixed point in this whole saga stopped being fixed. The Sussexes will relocate from California later this month to a private, non-royal home outside London; Archie, 7, and Lilibet, 5, are enrolled at a British school starting in September. They are keeping Montecito. There is no return to royal duties and no royal residence. King Charles was told on Sunday — not during July's Highgrove visit — and welcomes seeing more of them privately. Plus: twenty-nine years since Paris, and Eugenie names her daughter.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/palace-intrigue-harry-meghan-the-crown-royal-family-news-and-gossip--4522904/support.Palace Intrigue is a daily British royal family podcast covering King Charles, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry, Kate Middleton and the House of Windsor. New episodes every day. Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Part of the Caloroga Shark Media network.

Are Prince Harry and Meghan Markle truly moving back to the UK? What does their carefully chosen promise to remain for an “extended period” actually mean—and could the Sussexes leave Britain again after only a few months?As Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet prepare to attend British schools, reports suggest Harry and Meghan will keep their homes in Montecito and Portugal while creating a more international family life. Is the return about King Charles, Princess Diana's Spencer family and stronger European roots—or is Harry trying to secure his position before Prince William becomes King?We examine demands that Charles force the Sussexes to choose between commercial independence and working royal status, calls to remove their titles, and warnings that Harry and Meghan could establish an alternative royal court. Could independent Sussex charity appearances clash with official Royal Family engagements? Is their return destabilizing the monarchy during the King's cancer treatment? And can Harry and Meghan win back the British public without recreating the drama of Megxit?Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/palace-intrigue-harry-meghan-the-crown-royal-family-news-and-gossip--4522904/support.Palace Intrigue is a daily British royal family podcast covering King Charles, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry, Kate Middleton and the House of Windsor. New episodes every day. Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Part of the Caloroga Shark Media network.

Was Meghan Markle preparing to join season three of Guy Ritchie's Netflix series The Gentlemen? Why were the discussions described as “hypothetical”—and did intense British backlash cause the opportunity to be withdrawn?We examine “ActingGate,” whether returning to acting could revive Meghan's career, and why some Hollywood observers believe the Duchess of Sussex needs a bold dramatic role rather than another lifestyle project. Could acting succeed where With Love, Meghan struggled—and what would a popular British television role mean for Princess Catherine and the Royal Family?Plus: Can Harry and Meghan afford an £8 million UK home while maintaining their Montecito mansion? How much are security, mortgages and their international lifestyle costing them? And are Harry and Meghan developing separate professional identities, with Meghan pursuing entertainment and business while Harry concentrates on Invictus, charity and his legacy in Britain?Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/palace-intrigue-harry-meghan-the-crown-royal-family-news-and-gossip--4522904/support.Palace Intrigue is a daily British royal family podcast covering King Charles, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry, Kate Middleton and the House of Windsor. New episodes every day. Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Part of the Caloroga Shark Media network.

Prince Harry and Meghan Markle have announced plans to return to the United Kingdom, moving their family to a private, non-royal residence outside London after six years in Montecito, with Archie and Lilibet already enrolled in British schools for the September term. Kate is joined by Kinsey Schofield, creator and host of To Di For Daily, a royal-focused podcast with a pop-culture perspective, and host of the YouTube show Kinsey Schofield Unfiltered. Schofield has covered the British monarchy since 2017 and reported live from London on the Platinum Jubilee, Queen Elizabeth II's funeral, and King Charles III's coronation, to unpack why the Sussexes are making this move now and what it signals for their relationship with the royal family. Reality Life with Kate Casey Summer Reading List: https://katecasey.substack.com/p/books-i-cant-stop-talking-about-this Vanity Fair Article: https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/story/martha-moxleys-diary What to Watch List: https://katecasey.substack.com Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/katecasey Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/katecaseyca Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@itskatecasey?lang=en Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/113157919338245 Amazon List: https://www.amazon.com/shop/katecasey Twitter: https://twitter.com/katecaseySee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Prince Harry and Meghan Markle are reportedly packing up and heading back to the UK after their Hollywood ambitions tanked. From lost Spotify and Netflix deals to getting publicly shaded by Martha Stewart, Kennedy unpacks why their Montecito fantasy has completely fallen apart. Kennedy Now Available on YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://link.podtrac.com/kstw_yt⁠⁠⁠ Follow on TikTok:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@kennedy_foxnews⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join Kennedy for Happy Hour on Fridays!⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWlNiiSXX4BNUbXM5X8KkYbDepFgUIVZj⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bored with avocado toast & gratuitous Netflix checks in Montecito, Prince Harry & Meghan have decided the UK needs their special brand of drama injected straight back into the royal bloodstream. After spending years casually implying the entire country is a racist hellscape, they're packing up the kids and their victim complex for a triumphant return!

In potentially the biggest Sussex development since Megxit, Prince Harry and Meghan Markle are reportedly preparing to move back to Britain with Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet. Reports say the children will attend school in the UK beginning in September while Harry and Meghan establish a private British residence and retain their homes in Montecito and Portugal. King Charles has reportedly been informed and is said to welcome having his grandchildren closer, but Harry and Meghan are not returning as working royals. We break down what the reported move means for Harry's security battle, his relationship with King Charles and Prince William, Meghan's As Ever business, the 2027 Invictus Games, and whether the Sussexes may finally be creating the independent British-and-American life they originally wanted after leaving royal duties in 2020Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/palace-intrigue-harry-meghan-the-crown-royal-family-news-and-gossip--4522904/support.Palace Intrigue is a daily British royal family podcast covering King Charles, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry, Kate Middleton and the House of Windsor. New episodes every day. Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Part of the Caloroga Shark Media network.

"You really have to love the process. It can't be about, 'Oh, if I am an author, everyone will respect me so much.' You really have to love the process of it or there kind of isn't any point to doing it." — Carol Snow About This Episode Carol Snow is the author of ten books spanning romantic comedy, young adult fiction, and now psychological thrillers. She holds a BA in psychology from Brown University and a master's in teaching English from Boston College. Originally from New Jersey, she now splits her time between Cape Cod and Southern California. Her latest novel, The Girl on the Beach, is a gripping psychological thriller set along the coastline of Santa Barbara's American Riviera. It follows a wealthy Montecito couple, their four-year-old daughter, and the babysitter whose summer with the family ends in tragedy — and whose obsession with the truth may be the only thing keeping hope alive. Mike and Carol talk about growing up as an avid reader in Chatham, Massachusetts (where they share deep roots), the 16-year journey from first serious writing to first publication, switching genres multiple times, recovering from creative burnout, and why aspiring writers should focus on craft long before they worry about getting published. Key Takeaways 1. Readers become writers. Carol grew up in a family of avid readers, spent summers at a Cape Cod beach house without television, and devoured stacks of library books. That foundation — reading widely and constantly — is where her writing life began. 2. Sixteen years is not unusual. From the time Carol got serious about writing to the publication of her first novel, roughly sixteen years passed. Overnight success stories exist but are rare. Persistence and love of the craft are what carry you through. 3. Writing groups matter. After taking a fiction-writing class at Harvard Extension School, Carol and half the class formed a monthly writing group that applied the critique principles they'd been taught. That community kept the work moving forward. 4. Switching genres follows your reading life. Carol moved from romantic comedy to YA to psychological thrillers not out of strategy but because her reading interests evolved. She writes what she wants to read — and her psychology degree gives her thrillers an extra layer of character insight. 5. Burnout is real — and recoverable. After nine books in ten years, Carol hit a wall. She took time away, learned oil painting, and eventually returned with renewed gratitude and a fresh perspective. The ten-year gap between books taught her that stepping back can be a form of progress. 6. Wealth can't replace connection. In The Girl on the Beach, the ultra-wealthy parents are paradoxically the most isolated when tragedy strikes. Their money insulated them from building deep relationships, and when they need support most, no one is truly there. 7. Focus on craft before publication. Carol's single biggest piece of advice for aspiring writers: work on the writing itself before worrying about getting published. If you rush to publication before your craft is ready, you won't be prepared to sustain a career even if you get lucky early. 8. Don't take rejection personally — but do listen to feedback. A college professor told Carol she wasn't good enough. She ignored the verdict but kept working. The key distinction: rejection stings, but using feedback to improve is what separates writers who grow from those who quit. Get the Book The Girl on the Beach by Carol Snow Amazon: https://amzn.to/4wwfTjS Bookshop.org: https://bookshop.org/a/54587/9798892425773 Connect with Carol Website: https://www.carolsnow.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/carolsnowbooks/ Connect with Your Host Mike Carlon | Uncorking a Story Website: https://uncorkingastory.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@uncorkingastory Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/uncorkingastory/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/uncorkingastory TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@uncorkingastory Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/uncorkingastory Subscribe & Leave a Review — It helps more readers and writers find the show! Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/uncorking-a-story/id563636205 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5HZiAEtFlhAzk60Z4eAkhY --- Uncorking a Story is produced by Mike Carlon. New episodes drop every Tuesday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Billy Baldwin of Hit the Floor, Dr. Pam Mullarkey Robbins, The Walking Dead's David Morrissey, and XzibitThis edition of The Neil Haley Show opens with a Total Celebrity conversation with actor Billy Baldwin about his guest-starring turn on VH1's Hit the Floor. Baldwin, reflecting on the rowdy, rambunctious upbringing that shaped the famous Baldwin brothers, described the series as a scripted soap opera set inside a professional basketball franchise, the fictional Los Angeles Devils, full of behind-the-scenes drama among players, wives, cheerleaders, and a front office locked in a power struggle. He plays Everett, a billionaire pulling strings behind the scenes, and likened the dynamic to the real-life Lakers tug-of-war between Jeanie Buss and Phil Jackson. Baldwin praised showrunner James LaRosa and co-star Dean Cain, marveled at the caliber of the dancers, and joked that playing a master of the universe required no research given the billionaires strolling his Montecito neighborhood. He noted he is producing and starring in his third Hallmark Channel film and had just wrapped a movie in Italy with Michael Madsen. Hit the Floor airs at 10 p.m. Eastern.Neil then welcomed Dr. Pam Mullarkey Robbins, author of What's So Funny About Dementia?, a counselor and psychologist and four-time caregiver who explained how humor became her survival tool during her mother's Alzheimer's journey, always laughing with the person and never at them. She walked through prevention, the protein BDNF and the habits that support it, diet, exercise, rest, lower stress, and socialization, and named early warning signs like repeated questions and unexplained car damage. Because a caregiver who collapses cannot care for anyone, her counseling starts with the caregiver. Her second book, The Brighter Side of Dementia, collects a hundred reader-submitted stories.Neil then spoke with acclaimed British actor David Morrissey, unforgettable as the Governor on The Walking Dead, about the Starz and BBC thriller The Missing. Morrissey said he treasures the friendships and the visceral response to a character audiences love to hate, then turned to the new season's story of a soldier whose daughter, abducted as a child, walks back into the family's life eleven years later. Told across two timelines, the series follows not the search for a missing child but the harder aftermath of her return, as a delighted father and a suspicious mother are driven apart and a tenacious French detective, Julien Baptiste, played by Tchéky Karyo, reopens the case. Morrissey, who stars opposite Keeley Hawes, reflected on the guilt and grief such a homecoming stirs and the truth that you must be careful what you wish for. He also invited listeners to his Boogaloo Radio music show.The hour closes with a Total Education segment featuring recording artist, television host, and entrepreneur Xzibit. A recording artist since his 1996 debut who went on to work with Dr. Dre, Eminem, and Snoop Dogg and to host Pimp My Ride, Xzibit explained why, as the first millionaire in his family, he chose ownership over mere endorsement, becoming a partner in the Bonita Platinum tequila brand rather than simply lending his name. He detailed a market-by-market rollout built on events and local brand ambassadors, his goal of taking the brand everywhere, and a charitable streak that spans a breast-cancer campaign and homes he has helped build for wounded warriors near San Antonio. He also previewed continued touring behind his album Napalm. Find Billy Baldwin's work on VH1, David Morrissey in The Missing on Starz, and Xzibit's Bonita Platinum tequila as it expands.

Dave Fansler is joined by Nick Marziliano of the famed Sam's Italian Deli. The guys dine on stuffed chicken served with a couple of knock-out pino noirs from Sonoma County. Dave regales the audience with tales from his family vacation in Montecito. Plus, Shaver Lake needs a Mexican restaurant! #ShaverLake #BassLake #Fresno #YosemiteRanch #SamsDeli #KMJ #RickCaruso #TyWarren #BeanieBabies #SantaBarbara #JoshAllen #JFK #Montecito #VRBO #Ballers #FunkZone See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Share my vison and experiences running a trauma response volunteer network in Santa Barbara (The Santa Barbara Response Network). Learn steps for offering compassionate psychological first aid — to yourself and others The powerful lessons learned as a caregiver for my husband who died at home and how I developed tools for resilience and my self-care How to deal with the fear and uncertainty that shows up in our bodies and minds The power of poetry and the arts - As a published poet I can talk about how the arts can be such a valuable tool in healing and self-care. Discuss the motivation to start my group at Unity of SB. https://unitysb.org/. I lead an ongoing gathering “Healing Through Connection” in person and zoom held the last Wednesday of every month This interactive experience is a place to explore how mindful connection can support emotional and spiritual healing. Together we slow down, listen. And practice simple tools that help us meet ourselves and each other with compassion. She believes the most powerful and radical things we can do is to come together to create community and to care for ourselves we remind each other that we are not alone. Jina Carvalho guides individuals and organizations through personal and professional challenges while building supportive community. Jina's unique approach blends healing technologies with practical creative life tools empowering individuals and organizations to break through limitations, rediscover happiness, and create meaningful change. Jina has been in the field of mental health and trauma recovery for over 40 years. She is a performance artist, author, and poet. Her publications include a poetry memoir entitled “The Weight of Desire” and recently in the poetry anthology “Women in a Golden State”. In recognition of her community service, she was awarded the “Santa Barbara Independent, Hero of the Year Award” for her trauma response work in the Santa Barbara community. www.jinacarvalho.com Jina Carvalho holds a BA in Psychology and the performing Arts and is Director of Communication for the Glendon Association and PsychAlive.org. Their mission is to save lives and enhance mental health by addressing the public health issues of suicide and violence and disturbed family relations. They fulfill that mission through research, education and training in mental health field and to the general public www.glendon.org and www.psychalive.org Ms. Carvalho was a founder of the Santa Barbara Response Network (SBRN), a grassroots volunteer organization dedicated to offering Psychological First Aid (PFA) and support for resilient recovery from traumatic incidents including disasters, suicide and violent injuries, especially among underserved populations and youth. For over ten years, Jina has personally responded to hundreds of traumatic incidents, also trained thousands of community volunteers. She coordinated trauma support efforts to dozens of traumatic incidents in the Santa Barbara community including the Isla Vista mass shootings, the wildfires, the Montecito debris flow, Conception boat fire, Han family murders and violent incidents and suicides in schools and throughout the community. In recognition of her service, she was awarded the “Santa Barbara Independent, Hero of the Year Award” for her trauma response work in the Santa Barbara community. As a skilled creativity coach and motivational speaker, Jina guides individuals through creative blocks and professional challenges while building supportive community. Jina's unique approach combines healing methodologies with practical communication strategies, empowering individuals and organizations to break through limitations, rediscover happiness, and create meaningful change. anthology “Women in a Golden State”.

What do our clothes reveal when status, shame, ambition, and self-protection begin controlling the person we pretend to be? Costume designer Olga Mill joins Voice of Costume for a thoughtful deep dive into Season 2 of Netflix's BEEF, exploring how clothing can expose the hidden anxieties beneath wealth, taste, success, and carefully constructed identities. Olga traces her journey from immigrating from Ukraine and learning to "read the room" visually to studying costume design at NYU and cold-calling her way onto Boardwalk Empire. She then reveals how the costumes of BEEF distinguish Baby Boomers, Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z, while also showing that every generation wrestles with the same desire to feel original, accomplished, secure, and seen. The conversation explores Carey Mulligan's Lindsay, whose fear of appearing "basic" produces an elevated but increasingly suffocating world of bold patterns, curated luxury, emerging designers, and Montecito style. Olga also discusses building characters with Oscar Isaac and Charles Melton, drawing inspiration from Instagram, art photography, regional fashion, the Fisher King myth, generational cycles, class aspiration, and emotional decay. Beyond fashion, this becomes an honest conversation about vulnerability, creative collaboration, fear of rejection, identity, status, shame, and the freedom that comes from separating your worth from your work. A must-listen for: Fans of BEEF, Carey Mulligan, Oscar Isaac, Charles Melton, Netflix dramas, A24, costume design, luxury fashion, generational culture, character psychology, and emotionally layered storytelling. The "Voice of Costume" is the first podcast created between working costume designers sharing stories, inspiration, struggles, and insights into the creative career of costume design. A behind-the-scenes podcast to showcase the voices of Costume Designers around the world. Listen in on this inspirational, one-on-one conversation with Catherine Baumgardner. Audio available wherever you get podcasts. https://voiceofcostume.com/

This episode is a wild ride around the world with one of the travel industry's most respected and well-travelled voices. Glenn Johnston has lived across continents, shaped how people explore the world and collected a lifetime of extraordinary travel experiences along the way.   Episode Highlights & Destination Gems: 1. Australia's Northern Territory - A Journey Back in Time Most people think of Australia and picture its cities. Glen takes us somewhere far more profound. • Home to the world's longest continuing culture, stretching back 40,000 years • Ancient rock art sitting open in nature, unchanged and accessible to anyone willing to make the journey • Landscapes that look exactly as they would have millennia ago, with no manmade developments as far as the eye can see • Katherine Gorge, Kakadu National Park and extraordinary wildlife including saltwater crocodiles in their natural habitat 2. California - The One Destination Everyone Must Visit Glen's pick for the single place every traveller must experience at least once in their lifetime. • Something for every kind of traveller, whether you seek luxury, adventure, food or nature • San Francisco's culinary scene and the extraordinary experience of riding through the city in a driverless car • Napa Valley for world class wineries and Michelin starred dining • The iconic Pacific Coast Highway drive from Half Moon Bay down through Monterey, Big Sur and Santa Barbara • Post Ranch Inn at Big Sur for breathtaking ocean views and a stay you will never forget - https://www.instagram.com/postranchinn/ • Newport Beach and Montecito for relaxed luxury   3. AlUla, Saudi Arabia - Where History Lives and Breathes • Breathtaking rock formations surrounding a lush oasis of date farms and greenery • Hegra, one of the most remarkable ancient sites in the world • A destination that is new and exciting even for many Saudis themselves • Accessible directly from Dubai and outstanding value, particularly during Ramadan and the summer months 4. The Faroe Islands - Where the World Feels Untouched Glen's personal bucket list destination and perhaps the most surprising gem of the entire episode. • Located between Scotland and Iceland, accessible via Copenhagen • Landscapes and nature that are genuinely out of this world • The most charming and characterful townships you will ever encounter • Weather that changes in moments, adding to the raw and dramatic atmosphere • Restaurant Raest, a wonderful culinary surprise in the heart of the tiny capital - https://www.instagram.com/raestrestaurant/ • A place that offers something rare in today's connected world, true isolation and the chance to be completely present 5. Malta - The Destination That Can Surprise You • A place layered with history • Maltese language rooted in Arabic • Centuries of influence from the Arabs, the French, the British and the Knights of Malta all layered one on top of the other • History built on layer upon layer that makes every corner of Malta feel significant 6. Trnava Region, Slovakia - Europe's Best Kept Wellness Secret Glen's most transformational wellness experience and a destination almost no one is talking about. • A town with roots going back to Roman times, drawn there by its natural healing waters • Piešťany, a small town within the region entirely dedicated to wellness • Natural mud treatments with a remarkable purification process that takes months and returns the mud to the river when its work is done • Outstanding value and a genuinely immersive wellness experience that goes far beyond a spa day 7. Kyrgyzstan - Nomadic, Raw and Completely Unforgettable One of the most underrated destinations on earth and one that can be surprising at every turn. • Soviet mosaics and brutalist architecture in the capital Bishkek for architecture lovers • A culinary scene that exceeded all expectations • Staying in a yurt in the mountains during summer with no electricity, no running water and no distractions • Horse and jeep trails through landscapes that have never seen a single manmade structure • A way of travelling that is inherently sustainable and deeply connected to the natural world 8. Japan - The Number One Foodie Destination in the World • Tokyo has more Michelin starred restaurants than any other city on earth • Japanese cuisine goes far beyond sushi and sashimi and rewards every curious eater • Exceptional value right now thanks to the yen and decades of stagflation keeping prices low • The Izu Peninsula seafood shacks south of Tokyo where you can taste fresh shellfish cooked over open fires for free • Quality that holds whether you are in a Michelin starred restaurant or a tiny ramen shop at a train station 9. Slovenia - Hidden Gem A small country with an enormous amount to offer and one that not nearly enough people have discovered. Ljubljana, a beautiful university city with a wonderful energy and a thriving café and restaurant scene Mountain landscapes sitting alongside a city that is small enough to cover completely in just a few days Slovenian wine that deserves far more recognition than it currently receives The extraordinary Postojna Cave where a little train takes you deep into one of the most spectacular natural wonders in Europe 10. Bhutan – Bucket List   Connect with Glen Johnston: https://www.instagram.com/glennjohnston88/ Thank you for tuning in to Travel Stories with Moush! If you loved this episode, please hit subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and leave us a rating or review - it truly helps us reach more travelers like you.   Drop a comment and tell us which destination from today's episode is going straight to your bucket list? Stay connected with me on https://www.instagram.com/moushtravels/ to find out who's joining me next week.   Explore all past episodes and destinations here: https://podcasts.apple.com/ae/podcast/travel-stories-with-moush/id1691525895 https://open.spotify.com/show/1pAUXiXuRLv1E9WFznWm7T?si=qA_E3Cf8RqKT97pUJcINxQ https://www.youtube.com/@travelstorieswithmoush Until next time…safe travels and keep adventuring. Connect with me on the following: Instagram @moushtravels Facebook @travelstorieswithmoush LinkedIn @Moushumi Bhuyan You Tube @travelstorieswithmoush "Want a spotlight on our show? Visit https://admanager.fm/client/podcasts/moushtravels and align your brand with our audience."Connect with me on the following:Instagram @moushtravelsFacebook @travelstorieswithmoushLinkedIn @Moushumi BhuyanYou Tube @travelstorieswithmoush Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Reports claim Prince Harry and Meghan Markle could be facing financial pressure as critics argue their royal connection remains their most valuable asset. We look at suggestions the Sussexes may need to downsize their Montecito lifestyle, reaction to Meghan's Netflix series from one of her celebrity defenders, and growing speculation over a possible Diana anniversary project that could reignite tensions between Harry and Prince William. Plus, biographer Andrew Morton discusses Harry's long-standing concerns about being overshadowed, and King Charles reflects on the deep personal significance of Balmoral in a moving new foreword.Palace Intrigue is a daily British royal family podcast covering King Charles, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry, Kate Middleton and the House of Windsor. New episodes every day. Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Part of the Caloroga Shark Media network.

What really happens to the people who hurt you when they die? The narcissist. The abuser. The one who broke you and never once looked back. Is there justice waiting for them on the other side, or something far more surprising, far more humbling, and far more healing than anything a courtroom could ever deliver?  Michael welcomes back Suzanne Giesemann, former naval commander, one of the world's most respected evidential mediums, and the author of seventeen books, including her stunning new release Always Connected, for a conversation that covers the full spectrum of what it means to be human, to be hurt, and to finally understand why none of it, not one moment, was ever wasted. From two back-to-back readings with men she can only describe as monsters, to the missing boy found after three years through a dead crow and an X on a log, to the two words - here, open, that pulled her back from the edge of overwhelm, Suzanne delivers the kind of evidence-based, soul-level reassurance that only comes from someone who speaks to the other side every single day. This isn't about psychics getting it wrong. This is about what actually happens when the nervous system drops away, and every soul, without exception, is met by the one thing it never expected: love. Key Topics: What happens to truly evil people the moment they cross the veil, and why being met by unconditional love is, for them, the most shocking and disorienting experience imaginable. The two back-to-back readings that changed everything: the man who said "I was a monster," the man who wasn't yet allowed to speak, and the angelic escorts that functioned, with total love and zero tolerance, like cosmic MPs.  Why hell is not a place but a state of consciousness, and what the life review actually feels like for those who caused the most harm (hint: they feel every single thing they made others feel, in full).  The Sylvia Browne lesson: why even gifted psychics can get it catastrophically wrong, and the sacred triangle of coherence that separates genuine evidential mediumship from dangerous guesswork.  The missing boy, Jack Canton: the dead crow, the rushing river, the painted X on the log, the cairn, and how Suzanne's conversation with a boy in spirit led searchers to bone fragments three years after the Montecito mudslide took him.  Why empaths and sensitive souls keep attracting swizzle straws, and the fear-based belief buried beneath every relationship where you couldn't stop caring for someone who was hurting you.  The nervous system as filter: why narcissists genuinely cannot feel the pain they cause in a body, and why that filter vanishes the instant they cross the veil, making every wound they ever inflicted instantly, viscerally, undeniably real to them.  Hey, Spirit - the napkin that became a book deal over brunch: how Siri, a missing P and T, and a conversation with the VP of Hay House turned into Suzanne's most profound work yet.  Returning to base: the two-word practice - here, open, that instantly drops you out of overwhelm and back into pure awareness, no matter how many transparencies have piled up on the overhead projector.  What to do when someone you love has Alzheimer's and has gone non-communicative, and why soul-to-soul conversation in meditation may be the most healing gift you can offer them, and yourself. Spirit has never once told Suzanne, "I'm not fine" from the other side. Not once. Not the grief-stricken, not the traumatized, not even the ones who were cocooned and couldn't speak yet. Every single soul, without exception, is held, guided, and moving forward. That includes yours. That includes everyone you've lost. And the moment you stop hoping that's true and start knowing it, the way Suzanne does, is the moment everything changes. Join the Inspire Nation Soul Family!

Meghan Markle finds herself back in the headlines after a seemingly simple social media post about her family's favorite As Ever preserves reignites discussion about her long estrangement from father Thomas Markle. We also look at Meghan's latest lifestyle advice, the timing of her new candle launch, her surprise gift to a prominent social media supporter, and fresh questions about the performance of the As Ever brand following reports of declining website traffic and slipping poll numbers.Meanwhile, Prince Harry is spotted enjoying a solo evening in Los Angeles with chef José Andrés, while new reports suggest he believes Prince William may be behind his apparent exclusion from Peter Phillips' upcoming wedding. Plus, we examine a theory gaining traction online that California child influencer laws may play a role in Harry and Meghan's decision to keep Archie and Lilibet largely out of public view, and why the Sussex approach differs so dramatically from that of William and Catherine.Palace Intrigue is a daily British royal family podcast covering King Charles, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry, Kate Middleton and the House of Windsor. New episodes every day. Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Part of the Caloroga Shark Media network.

#124 A Cup of Tea with Flowing River On this episode we sit down with Flowing River, a heart-centered mystic and ceremonialist who runs a tea house in Montecito, California. The conversation covered Flowing River's spiritual journey, including his travels to 34 countries seeking personal healing and spiritual understanding, beginning at age 29 with yoga training in Guatemala. We discussed the challenges of Western capitalism and consumer culture, with Flowing River sharing stories from his time living in a Filipino ghetto where he learned about contentment and the human capacity for adaptation. The discussion touched on topics ranging from technology addiction and social media habits to alternative governance models, permaculture, and the importance of reconnecting with nature through growing food. We end with Flowing River reading a poem about the futility of pursuing material wealth in the search for true happiness and spiritual fulfillment. https://drishti.house/  

"Montecito makes for a fascinating short stay dabble, edging Santa Barbara and just a 90-minute drive from LA. Home to just over 8000 residents, Montecito is a pint-sized California enclave, but home to a horde of A-listers and a certain royal couple." "Despite its A-list credentials, Montecito has retained its small-town vibe with understated glamour. It is calming, woodsy and charming, where soft coastal light meets mature oaks and sweeping mountain views—with glimpses of the ocean at every turn." Read Mike's full article. LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Casey Anthony was spotted shopping in Central Florida after spending much of the past year in New Hampshire. Ray J was knocked out during a celebrity MMA match against YouTuber Supa Hot Fire in Las Vegas. Kendall Jenner and Jacob Elordi were seen getting affectionate during a dinner outing in Montecito. Plus, Timothée Chalamet celebrated courtside with New York Knicks players after the team clinched a trip to the NBA Finals. Hosts: Antonio Smith, Deven Rall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This morning, Jacob Elordi and Kendall Jenner continue with their public but as-yet-unconfirmed dates, Kimmy K is auditioning off her old clothes, and the hugest Euphoria plot development yet. ☕ Kim Kardashian is having a closet sale ☕ Three more Kyle and Jackie O producers are made redundant as the ARN fallout continues ☕ Stephen Colbert trolls CBS on public access TV one day after his Late Show finale ☕ Kendall Jenner and Jacob Elordi get very cosy at a Montecito dinner date ☕ Euphoria shockingly kills off a main character and nobody is coping with how it happened on screen. THE END BITSOnce you’ve devoured this morning’s celeb stories, get your daily news headlines from The Quicky here.You can now watch some of our episodes in full length video on the Apple Podcast app - make sure your phone is up to date and we can't wait for you to see LINK: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-spill/id1473523403Support independent women's media New Mamamia subscribers get $40 off — $20 off an annual membership and $20 off your TWOOBS order. Click here to subscribe. Already a subscriber? Click here for your $20 TWOOBS discount code. T&C's apply.Follow us on TikTok, Instagram and Facebook. And subscribe to our Youtube channel.Read all the latest entertainment news on Mamamia... here.Discover more Mamamia Podcasts here.CREDITSHost & Producer: Ash LondonExecutive Producer: Monisha Iswaran Mamamia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we have recorded this podcast.Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Meghan shuts down claims of a Suits return as commentators question the Sussex finances and future plans. Plus, Harry's reported Balmoral hopes, criticism of their Montecito home, falling As Ever traffic, and another sharp look at Harry's public contradictions.Get episodes of Palace Intrigue by becommming a paid subscriber on Apple Podcasts. Click the button that says uninterrupted listening.  Just $5 a month, and that includes many ofther shows on the Caloroga Shark network.A new season of King William is available now.Our royal newsletter written by Deep Crown is available for free.Royal Books:Revenge: Meghan, Harry, and the War Between the Windsors by Tom BowerWilliam and Catherine: The Monarchy's New Era: The Inside StoryThe Royal Insider: My Life with the Queen, the King and Princess Diana

Samira Close e Desirée Beck são as queriduxas do Wanda de hoje em que abrem o jogo sobre os perrengues drag e Desirée pede dicas como recém-chegada em São Paulo. Também adivinhamos divas canceladas jogando Nome na Testa!LISTERINE®️ Cuidado Total — o enxaguante mais completo da marca. Ele tem 5x mais poder de limpeza*, alcançando áreas que muitas vezes a gente não consegue chegar com apenas escovação e fio dental. Saiba mais: https://bit.ly/4sIvTOR  *Do que apenas uso da escovação e fio dental.#LISTERINE #publiLOTUSCadeira de madeira de barLugares de São Paulo simples e caroInstants do InstagramStylist da RobynFiscal de dragMERYLEpisódio “Montecito” de “Hacks”Michael Jackson relembrado2ª temporada de The Pitt”Edifício RolimME AJUDA, WANDA!O gringo cafajeste do cruzeiro me fisgou!FAÇA PARTE DO CLUBINHO WANDA!Episódios extras toda segunda e sexta a partir de R$10!Apoiase: https://apoia.se/podcastwandaOrelo: https://orelo.cc/wandahttps://linktr.ee/podcastwandaQuer mandar seu caso pra gente? Mande um desabafo, uma rapidinha ou dilema para o e-mail redacao@papelpop.com. Coloque qualquer coisa com "Wanda" no assunto!Episódio #736 apresentado por:@phelipecruz@eusousamir@sadeekenya@lucas.simpolioProdução:Julia Gomes (julia@papelpop.com / @g0mesjulia)Edição / Captação:Felipe Dantas (dantas@papelpop.com / @apenasdantas)Toda quarta-feira, 20h, ao vivo no Youtube e em todas as plataformas de streaming.

Meghan Markle is taking the lead financially as pressure grows to sustain the Sussexes’ lavish Montecito lifestyle, while Travis Kelce says girlfriend Taylor Swift is transforming him in unexpected ways — including expanding his culinary horizons during their romantic London getaway. Meanwhile, Stephen Colbert confessed Michelle Williams once left him completely starstruck backstage at “The Late Show,” admitting he “didn’t know what to do with my eyeballs” during her appearance. Rob’s latest exclusives and insider reporting can be found at robshuter.substack.com My novel, It Started With A Whisper, is available now See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Commentators pile on Prince Harry and Meghan Markle over reports of financial pressures, shrinking staff numbers, and growing unhappiness in Montecito. Plus: Meghan reportedly fumes over a Saturday Night Live joke and jokes herself about renewing vows with Harry.Get episodes of Palace Intrigue by becommming a paid subscriber on Apple Podcasts. Click the button that says uninterrupted listening.  Just $5 a month, and that includes many ofther shows on the Caloroga Shark network.A new season of King William is available now.Our royal newsletter written by Deep Crown is available for free.Royal Books:Revenge: Meghan, Harry, and the War Between the Windsors by Tom BowerWilliam and Catherine: The Monarchy's New Era: The Inside StoryThe Royal Insider: My Life with the Queen, the King and Princess Diana

Stucco arches, red tile floors, exposed beams — the look and feel of the houses in the oceanfront towns of Santa Barbara and Montecito can be attributed to a woman architect known by one name: Lutah. The Ohio-born and California-bred architect Lutah Maria Riggs was on track to be a teacher, one of few professions to welcome women in the early 20th century, when she won a scholarship to Berkeley by selling newspapers. Like architect Julia Morgan before her, she gained entry to the university's Beaux Arts influenced architecture program – one of only four women in her class. Also like Morgan, she was talented enough to capture the interest and mentorship of the head of the program, John Galen Howard, and a series of other older male architects who helped her launch her career and chaperoned her travel to Mexico, Spain, and other countries whose architecture was highly influential in California in the 1920s. Riggs's most famous public project, the Lobero Theater in downtown Santa Barbara, was directly influenced by a serendipitous stop in Spain. Traveling on her own, Riggs took advantage of the network of women's hotels and clubs available in those days. She was always up for a dance, and was even friends with Martha Graham when the modern dance pioneer spent time in Santa Barbara. Her work has helped define the indoor-outdoor, casual, one-story style that is most identified with southern California today. That has made her houses highly prized for their luxurious materials, swoon-worthy views, and easy living. Unlike many architects who focused on public commissions, many of her houses are still extant, and the real estate agents know what they've got. Zoe Saldana lives in a Lutah today, and architecture enthusiast Ellen DeGeneres has in the past. Riggs – who lived until the 1980s – continues to be one of Santa Barbara's most celebrated architects.  Produced by Brandi Howell for the New Angle Voice Podcast presented by the Beverly Willis Architecture Foundation.The Kitchen Sisters Present is produced by The Kitchen Sisters (Nikki Silva & Davia Nelson) with Nathan Dalton and Brandi Howell.The Kitchen Sisters Present is part of PRX's Radiotopia podcast network.

Prince Harry's memoir Spare has been named Britain's most popular bathroom read, topping a new survey that highlights its easy, conversational style.Meanwhile, Meghan Markle is facing renewed online criticism after sharing a video of daughter Princess Lilibet with the family's chickens, with some questioning the authenticity of the carefully curated glimpse into their California life.We break down the latest wave of scrutiny, including claims about their standing in Montecito, ongoing questions about their brand, and whether their public image continues to work in their favor.Plus: commentary from across the media landscape on why the Sussexes may be better suited to life in California than the United Kingdom, and new reports suggesting Prince Harry's relationship with King Charles remains strained.Get episodes of Palace Intrigue by becommming a paid subscriber on Apple Podcasts. Click the button that says uninterrupted listening.  Just $5 a month, and that includes many ofther shows on the Caloroga Shark network.A new season of King William is available now.Our royal newsletter written by Deep Crown is available for free.Royal Books:Revenge: Meghan, Harry, and the War Between the Windsors by Tom BowerWilliam and Catherine: The Monarchy's New Era: The Inside StoryThe Royal Insider: My Life with the Queen, the King and Princess Diana

Alan Ritchson won't be charged after getting into a fist fight with his neighbor, Harry & Meghan are apparently getting cold shoulders from their Montecito neighbors and Kevin Nealon doesn't like when Saturday Night Live cast members break character.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Bradley and Dawn welcome Maria Aziz, a volunteer coordinator at Alight, as part of our She Speaks series to talk about her amazing personal journey and the work Alight is doing with displaced people. Prince Andrew put his staff in a trailer. Harry and Meghan are tiring their Montecito neighbors. Britney went to Starbucks. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I recently had a long conversation with a very successful professional. He's 58 years old. Highly educated. Respected in his field. Financially sophisticated — in fact, his job depends on understanding money. If you looked at his résumé, you would assume he was completely set for life. He wasn't. A couple of bad investments. Some concentration risk. A few decisions that looked reasonable at the time. And suddenly he's essentially back at ground zero — trying to start a new business at 58. This story is far more common than people realize. The Dangerous Assumption is that many successful professionals assume they'll be fine. Doctors. Lawyers. Executives. Entrepreneurs. They make high incomes. They understand finance. They know about markets and interest rates and diversification. They focus on their career. They focus on income. They even focus on investing. What they don't focus on is their own financial future with the same intensity they focus on their profession. There's a difference. Being financially literate is not the same thing as being financially intentional. Especially when you assume you always have more time. The Good News at 58 is that he still has time. A lot of time. For entrepreneurs especially, it doesn't take 25 years to rebuild. It can take five. There's a quote often attributed to Bill Gates: “Most people overestimate what they can accomplish in one year and underestimate what they can accomplish in five.” That quote is brutally accurate. In one year, starting a business feels overwhelming. Progress feels slow. Revenue is inconsistent. Doubt creeps in. But five years? Five years of focused effort, smart strategy, capital discipline, and experience compounded? That can change your entire financial trajectory. I've Seen This Movie Before. I have a very good friend who was worth over $40 million in his early 30s during the real estate boom. Then 2008 happened. The real estate debacle didn't just dent him — it wiped him out. For years, he struggled. Pride gone. Lifestyle reset. Just trying to survive. Most people would have mentally retired at that point. They would have blamed the market, blamed the system, blamed bad luck. But about six or seven years ago, he found his rhythm again. New strategy. New focus. New discipline. Today, he's worth over $60 million. I get that's not normal. But it proves something important. It Doesn't Take a Lifetime. The examples I just gave are extreme. Most people don't lose $40 million. Most people aren't rebuilding at 58. But the principle is universal: It doesn't take a lifetime to secure your future. It takes a focused season. A defined period where you are intensely clear about your objective. A stretch where: • You work harder than you're comfortable with • You manage risk better than you used to • You stop assuming income equals security • You align your decisions with a specific financial target for the future There's another quote I love: “The harder you work, the luckier you get.” Luck isn't random. It compounds around preparation, visibility, and persistence. When you are laser-focused on a financial goal, you start seeing opportunities others miss. You make better introductions. You ask sharper questions. You move faster when something makes sense. And over time, it looks like “luck.” The story of the 58-year-old professional isn't a warning about markets. It's a warning about complacency. Success in your profession does not automatically translate into security in your future. Income is not wealth. Financial literacy is not financial strategy. And intelligence does not eliminate risk. But here's the good news. If you're in your 40s or 50s and feel behind — you're not done. If you made a bad investment — you're not finished. If you took a hit — that's not your final chapter. You may just be at the beginning of your five-year season. The key is focus. Direct yourself to a destination you can visualize. That's the only way you will get there. Because in the end, securing your future rarely requires a lifetime of perfection. It requires a concentrated period of intensity. And the sooner you decide to enter that season — the sooner your next five years will start compounding in your favor. There is no one who knows this reality more than this week's guest on Wealth Formula, Rod Khleif . Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qogQNGbK9wk Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/549-youre-successful-until-youre-not-with-rod-khleif/id718416620?i=1000753860685 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7mTzyRJxjnkeiVFGCXfOni Transcript Disclaimer: This transcript was generated by AI and may not be 100% accurate. If you notice any errors or corrections, please email us at phil@wealthformula.com.  welcome everybody. This is Buck Joffrey with Dwell Formula Podcast. Coming to you from Montecito, California, I wanna remind you that there is a website associated with this podcast called wealthformula.com. That’s where you go if you wanna. Become, uh, more, uh, involved with this community, including our accredited investor club, AKA investor club, uh, very easy to join. It’s free. All you do is you get onboarded and you see lots of, uh, potential deal flow that you wouldn’t otherwise see again, that is wealthformula.com. Simply click on investor club and get onboarded. Now, as for today’s show, I had a, uh, a long conversation with a very successful professional, recently 58, highly educated, respected, financially sophisticated, in fact, in the money business. Uh, and if you look at his resume, you would assume he was completely set for life, but he wasn’t. A couple of bad investments, some concentration risk. A few decisions that looked reasonable at the time, and suddenly he’s back pretty much to ground zero trying to figure out what to do, and he’s thinking about starting a new business or maybe buying a business. Well, that got me thinking because the reality is this story is far more common than people realize, and I actually hear it fair amount. Right? Many successful professionals assume they’re gonna be fine. Doctors, lawyers, executives, entrepreneurs, making high incomes. Maybe they understand finance, they know about markets, interest rates and diversification in theory. But here’s the trap. You focus on your career. You focus on income. What they don’t focus on is their own financial future with the same intensity. They focus on the profession, and that’s. The difference, right? The issue is that being financially literate is not the same thing as being financially intentional. Now, I actually hate that word because it’s a very, uh, uh, neo agey word intentional. But in this case, I will use it because that it’s very, it’s very appropriate. But here’s the good news, even at 58, right, you still have time. You have a lot of time for, especially for entrepreneurs, it doesn’t take 25 years to rebuild. It can take five. And there’s this quote, um, it’s often attributed to Bill Gates, who, who’s been in the news lately for a lot of other stuff, but this is a good quote. He says, most people overestimate what they can accomplish in one year and underestimate what they can accomplish in five. And that quote is so true. I will, it’s incredibly powerful and it’s very, very useful to think about and. Put in the back of your mind because in a year, like you’re saying, you’re starting a business, it’s gonna feel overwhelming. You may lose money, you know, slow progress, revenue, inconsistent five years, you know, with focused effort and you know, good strategy and discipline. The financial trajectory of your life could completely change over that five years. In fact, I will say that with my first business that I ever started, that is absolutely what happened. I was just pretty much outta residency, didn’t have any money, and within five years I was rocking and rolling. You know, it was a, it was, you know, it wasn’t worth, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars. But I, I, I was, I was doing way better. If you look over five years, it’s an incredible trajectory. And it’s not just me. I mean, there’s guys who’ve done it more extreme ways. I talk about this friend, a lot of times he was worth like 30 or $40 million in his early thirties, and then 2008 happened. It didn’t just kinda dent him, it wiped him out, and for years he struggled. Lifestyle kind of reset a little bit, just trying to survive. You know, there’s this saying in business that the key to su success in business is to stick around long enough until you get lucky again. Well, sometimes that’s true. And a lot of people might have, uh, kind of mentally retired at that point. But the reality is he stuck with it. He rebuilt about six or seven years. He was kind of sideways, then another six or seven years, new focus, new discipline, and today worth 60 million bucks. Now, that’s not normal, right? But it does provide, uh, it does, it does kind of provide an important point. It doesn’t take a lifetime always. Now most people don’t lose $40 million, and most people aren’t rebuilding necessarily from zero at 58, but the principle really is universal. It doesn’t take a lifetime to secure your future. It takes a focus season to find period where you’re intensely clear about your objective. It’s a stretch where you work harder than you’re comfortable with, and maybe it’s not fun to do that in your fifties or sixties. You manage risk better than you used to. You stop assuming income equals security. You align your decisions with a specific financial target. You know what, there’s a another line I love, another quote, and I don’t know where this one comes. I, I, I think it was some hockey coach of mine way back. It’s that the harder you work, the luckier you get. The thing is that luck isn’t random, right? It compounds. Around preparation and visibility and persistence. And when you’re laser focused on a financial goal, you’re gonna start seeing opportunities that are out there that others might miss. You’re gonna make, you know, better introductions, ask sharp questions. You move faster when something makes sense, and over time it starts to look like luck. I think the real lesson, um, about the situation that people get into, like this person I was talking about is. That it, it’s not a warning about markets per se, although markets have a lot to do with it. It’s a warning about complacency. You know, success in your profession does not automatically translate into security in your future. You know, income as you know, is not really wealth and financial literacy is not financial strategy. Although literacy is really, really important. You gotta have a strategy. And you can be really, really smart and not eliminate, you know, or mitigate risk enough. So if you’re in your forties or fifties and feel behind, you’re not done. Okay? You made a bad investment, you’re not finished. If you took a hit, I’ve taken plenty of heads, especially the last few years. It’s not your final chapter. You may just be looking at the beginning of your next five year season. And the key is focus clear goals, define targets, discipline, action. The sooner you decide to enter that season, the sooner your next five years will start compounding in your favor. Man, I gotta tell you, this is a, an ongoing story I hear a lot about, so again, think about that Bill Gates quote, you, you know, people tend to way overestimate what they can do in a year. Grossly underestimate what they could do in five. Anyway. There’s no one who knows this better than my guest on this week’s Wealth Formula podcast. Rod Cleef. Many of you already know him. We’ll have that conversation right after these messages. Wealth Formula banking is an ingenious concept powered by whole life insurance, but instead of acting just as a safety net, the strategy supercharges your investments. First, you create a personal financial reservoir that grows at a compounding interest rate much higher than any bank savings account as your money accumulates. You borrow from your own bank to invest in other cash flowing investments. Here’s the key. Even though you’ve borrowed money at a simple interest rate, your insurance company keeps paying you compound interest on that money even though you’ve borrowed it. At result, you make money in two places at the same time. That’s why your investment. Get supercharged. This isn’t a new technique. It’s a refined strategy used by some of the wealthiest families in history, and it uses century old rock solid insurance companies as its backbone. Turbocharge your investments. Visit wealthformulabanking.com. Again, that’s wealthformulabanking.com. Welcome back to the show everyone. Today my guest on Wealth Formula podcast is Rod Thief. He’s a real estate investor, author, and mentor with decades of experience in multifamily investing. Uh, he’s built and sold hundreds of millions, uh, in, in apartment assets and teaches thousands of investors through coaching masterclasses and his life. Uh, lifetime Cash Flow Academy. Uh, rod, how you doing? Good, brother. Good to see you, my friend. Let’s review, but you know a little bit about you, your background. Sure. You know, uh, sure. We have an interesting story. Okay, well I’m a Dutch immigrant, you know, think wooden shoes and windmills. I immigrated to this country, uh, when I was six years old with my brother Albert, my mother’s cia. Um, and we ended up in Denver, Colorado. Uh, struggled initially. Really struggled actually. And, and I remember, uh, wearing hand me down clothes all the way through junior high school until I finally lied about my age when I was 14 ’cause I was tall and said I was 15 so I could flip burgers at Burger King. You know, and I’m sure you’ve got listeners that had it harder than I did, but I knew I wanted more. And luckily my mom had an incredible work ethic and so she babysat kids so we’d have enough money to eat. And with her babysitting money, she was an entrepreneur and invested in real estate. Um, and her first real estate acquisition was the house right across the street from us. When I was 14, she paid about $30,000. And then when I was 17, she told me she’d made $20,000 in her sleep. It had gone up in value. And I’m like, what? Forget college. I’m getting into real estate. So I. Went and got my real estate broker’s license right when I turned 18, which you could do back then with education. Now they got, they got smart you, they need some, you need some experience. But, uh, I was a broker. I was smart enough to go work for a broker. But, um, you know, my first year in real estate I made about eight grand. My second year, maybe 10 grand, but my third year I made over a hundred thousand dollars, which back in 1980 was some pretty decent money. And so what happened between year two and year three? Uh, the 10 x my income was what? What happens? I met a, a guy, he was a broker. I was working for actually, it taught me about the importance of mindset and psychology and how really 80 to 90% of your success in anything is just that your mindset and psychology. So fast forward to today, I’ve, I’ve owned over 2000 houses that I’ve rented long term. I own thousands of apartments now, and I’m also buying senior housing now, which I’m excited about. And you know, in 2006, my net worth went up $17 million while I slept. And you might say, wow. I said, wow, I got a head so big I could barely fit it through a door. And I thought I was a real estate God. And you know, when that happens, God of the universe will give you a nice little SmackDown. Well, that was 2008. I conservatively lost $50 million in 2008 and nine. What I’m known for talking about on my podcast, which I’m blessed to say at this point’s, the largest, uh, commercial real estate podcast really in the world at this point is, and, and the reason being is I spend time talking about mindset. You know, people don’t remember what you said, but they remember how you make him feel. And I do little clips every week called Own Your Power, their motivational clips. And, and I think that’s the reason it’s been so well received. But, uh, you know, I’m known for talking about the. Mindset it took to have 50 million to lose in the first place. And you know, maybe more importantly, the mindset it took to recover from losing it. But, uh, you know, I’d love to, we can chat about that if you like, or I’d love to talk about the state. Yeah. Whatever you It’s a, it’s, I think it’s appropriate to talk about that right now, rod. I mean, I think Okay. You know, in this, in this market with what we had, you know, um, you know, there’s been a, there’s been a lot of pain in multifamily and Yeah. You know, it’s, you know, you and I have talked about this before where. Part of success is, is trying to recognize particular situations. Um, you know, you talk about Warren Buffet and how Warren Buffet says be greedy, when others are fearful and all that, that’s great, but it’s really hard to do. Right? And so help us understand like, sure. You know, uh, how, how do you, how do you do that? Sure. How did you go and how bad did it get? Well, I lost 50 million. I lost $50 million, so it got pretty freaking bad. Okay. I call ’em seminars. That was an expensive seminar. Yeah. Yeah. And very little, uh, so it was, it was ugly. It was ugly, but. It was, it’s, I, I’ll be, I’ll be candid. The strategies I’ll share very briefly here, the strategies, I’ll share the same strategies you would use to get started. Okay. You know, if, if you know you need to do something, and we talked about this, uh, uh, before we started recording, you know, the. With ai, a lot of jobs are going away. You know, if you heard of Elon Musk on, on Joe Rogan’s last epi episode, or the last interview he did with Joe Rogan, you know, he said any job in front of a computer is pretty much gonna be gone like lightning, like a year or two. I mean that fast. It’s crazy. And so, you know, and even, you know, surgeons are, are, are, are gonna be replaced by robotics and, and on and on and you know, and I think there’s gonna be it professionals, uh, you know, there’s gonna be a lot of. Pain for the people that don’t proactively, you know, reinvent themselves, start thinking about what they’re gonna do to reinvent themselves. Maybe it’s an ai, maybe you’ll learn ai, but, but you better think about it now or if you’re in one of these positions. So when the shoe drops, you’re ready because. Uh, there’s a lot of opportunity. I mean, there’s 10,000 people a day turning 65 in this country. You could buy businesses, um, you know, uh, I’m in, I’m, I’m excited about senior housing. They need beds, you know, and, and there’s a huge shortage of beds, but, so there’s a lot of opportunity, but you better pick something if you’re in one of these fields and get busy starting to study it and learn it, and do it on the side so that when the shoe drops, you’re ready. That’s, I don’t wanna scare you, but I just wanna open your eyes. To that fact. But so how, how I recovered from losing $50 million again, is the same strategy I would tell you to use to get started. And it’s first thing, it starts with goals. You gotta figure out what it is you want. ’cause how do you get anything if you don’t know what it is? Because with the goals you create a burning desire or a hunger and you’ve gotta have that to push through fear and limiting beliefs and so on and so forth. And, um. You know, I, I, that’s, if you come to one of my bootcamps, I do a virtual bootcamp every couple of months. It’s two days. I don’t sell anything there. And I’ll tell you later how you can come for 47 bucks. So it’s no excuse. But, but the first thing we do is goal setting on steroids, uh, because you’ve got, again, you’ve gotta create that hunger. Now, I’ll, I’ll say this to you, if you have no interest in, in, uh, learning what I teach. At my link tree, I did my goal setting workshop. It’s an hour. There’s a guide you can download if you go to rodslinks.com or text the word links if you’re driving, uh, to 7, 2, 3, 4, 5 at the bottom. My, is my goal setting workshop. And you know, here’s the thing, buck, people spend more time planning a freaking birthday party than they do designing their lives. Doing your goals is designing your life. So you know, if, if, uh, if you haven’t done ’em in a while, go to Rods, links, go at the bottom. There’s my workshop, there’s a guide. You can download ’em. Not gonna try to sell you anything. Spend an hour with me. Have your spouse do it. Have your kids do it if they’re over 10 years old, and design their lives. So again, it starts with goals. So that’s the first thing I did was reassociate with my goals. Then the second piece is you gotta make a decision. And I don’t mean dip your toe in the water. I don’t mean one foot in, one foot out. I mean, you decide it’s done. Okay. The Latin root for the word decision means to cut off. If you’re gonna attack the island, you burn your ships ’cause you’re taking their ships home. That’s a decision. And, and that’s what I did. I said, okay, enough, quit feeling sorry for yourself. Pick yourself up and go make something happen. And that’s, that’s what I did back then when I lost everything. But it’s the same thing again. If you’re, if you’re in a job and you’re. You’re just not where you want to be. So we make that decision and then you gotta take the first step, uh, you know, buck. And that’s, that’s pretty much it. You know, Dr. Martin Luther King said, you take that first step in faith, the next step will be revealed. And you know, LA Sue said the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. But, you know, in our business and, and, and the investors that we deal with and, and the, you know. Uh, active investors and, and, and passive both, as many of ’em are very analytical and you know who you are. If that’s you and I love you, you’re some of the most successful students that I have and successful people in our businesses. However, I also know how you have to check off every single box before you make a move, and you can’t do that here. Okay? You’ve got to, you’ve got to recognize that you’ve gotta have enough faith. To get started, you know, you can go all the way across the United States at night with your headlight only seeing 50 feet in front of you. And, you know, you can make it, you know, other people have done it before you, you know, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a, a road. And, uh, it’s the same way. You may have some obstacles, but, uh, it’s the same way with this business or really any business. But you, you, you’ve got to take that first step. And, you know, a, a lot of people fear failure, and I’m gonna tell you, don’t fear failure. Fear being in the same place you are right now, a year or two from now, unless you absolutely freak. Love where you are right now. Fear, fear, regret. That’s what I would fear if I were you. I, I, there was this nurse in Australia, a hospice nurse, uh, and her name was Bronny Ware. She asked patients when, who were about to die, if they had any regrets, and she wrote a book about it as a national bestseller. Something like The Five Regrets of Dying. You know what the number on regret was? It was Living the, not Living the Life I could have lived living someone else’s life, not doing what I know. I’m capable of fear that don’t fear failure, you know? Well, the next piece is fear and limiting beliefs. So fear, you know, every successful person have has fear. Now we, we, we, entrepreneurs call it stress, but it’s fear. And, you know, action mitigates fear. You wanna mitigate fear, take action. Go do something. If I’m, if I’m laying in bed at night, it’s three in the clock in the freaking morning and something stresses me out again, stress is fear. That’s what we achievers call stress. Uh, it’s fear. Uh, and, and, um. If something wakes me up and I’m stressed about it, I literally will get outta bed and just go write down some notes. I used to have a pen with an electrical pen that drove my ex-wife crazy and I’d, I’d write notes sometimes fill up pages of notes in bed so that I’m taking some action so I can go back to sleep. So there’s a, there’s a very simple example of it, but anytime that I am fearful about something, I take massive action towards it. Just, just taking steps, doing things. That will mitigate it. And it’s just how it works. So, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s as simple as that buck. I mean, you just have to do some things. Towards that fear now. Now, the other thing is, if you don’t take action, the fear expands. So that’s the, uh, uh, that’s the antithesis there. So, so you, you need to take action because that’ll, that’ll mitigate it. The, the next piece really is limiting beliefs. You know, when I immigrated this country, I didn’t speak English. I got thrown into school, found out what bullies were for the first time. So I got my butt kicked occasionally, hadn’t learned how to fight back, and then my mom, this is the prop, sent me to school in these wooden shoes. And these are the actual wooden shoes. We found them. When we put her in senior house, senior living in, and these leather shorts, the Germans wear for October Fest, I had to wear that to school. And of course that was crack cocaine for the fricking bully. So I got my ass kicked again. And don’t wooden shoes, rod Or, or those, yeah. Yeah. Wooden shoes. Wooden shoes. Yeah. These are from Holland, man. That’s where I was born. Yeah. My mom. Proud Dutch woman. Yeah. This is, they’re wood. They’re real wood. The farmers still wear these things, uh, ’cause they’re good to go through mud, but they’re crack cocaine for bullies. Okay? And so, yeah, you know, uh, I, I, I got my butt kicked again and, and I came up with this belief system that I wasn’t good enough. I used to ask myself, how can I show them I’m good enough? And a lot of people have these limiting belief systems. I’m not good enough. I’m not courageous enough. I’m not strong enough. I’m not old enough. I’m not young enough. Here’s the thing to remember. There’s a reason the acronym for Belief Systems is BS because 99% of them are bs, but we believe they’re real. I mean, I used to be afraid to raise my hand in front of 10 kids in a classroom, and because of fear of rejection, now I speak in front of thousands of people a year, usually in flip-flops. Okay, so you know, you can mitigate this. So if you’re aware of one of these. Limiting beliefs, BS belief systems, drag it out into the daylight. Look at it with your adult rational mind. You’ll recognize that it’s BS and it will dissipate. But you gotta, you gotta think about it consciously and it’ll, it’ll go away. Um, the, the next piece is focus. Um, you know, focus really is power and whatever we focus on gets bigger, both positive or negative. Okay? So it’s very important that you focus on what you want, not what you don’t want. I’ll get, people call me and say, how do I get outta my student loan debt? I’m like, wrong question. How do you make so much money? The debt’s irrelevant, is the question you need to be asking. They asked Mother Theresa if she was anti-war. She said, no, I’m pro peace. I mean, you get it, right? And, and so, and in fact, I’ll give you another example. So I, I, my podcast is over, I believe, over 30 million downloads, which doesn’t sound like a lot in our social media world, but in, in the podcasting space, it’s not bad. But I listened to two podcasts, Joe Rogan and Tim Ferris. I try to get both sides of the aisle. I’m definitely on, on one side. Uh, but, but, um. They get, and the reason I bring that up is they get about 30 million a week, you know, but that big podcast. But, but, um, on, on Tim Ferriss’ show, he interviews the best of the best in the world. You know, the best athletes like Michael Phelps, NFL players and NFL players, NBA players, actors like Hugh Jackman, ed Norton, Jamie Fox, Arnold billionaires like Ray Dalio, heads of the biggest companies on the planet like Zuckerberg. And he deconstructs their success. It’s very intelligent conversation. I mean, I, I love listening to it. I started to hear a pattern, uh, they almost all meditate. What does meditation enhance? Focus, right? So focus is a really important piece of, of, of success. And just a couple more. One is playing, the next one is playing to your strengths. You know, when, when you, when you go to reinvent yourself or if you’re struggling, you know, or, or gonna start something. Play to your strengths and hire a align or partner for your weaknesses. Like in our world, you know, there’s lots of different hats you can wear. It’s a team sport. You could be the person that finds the deals and analyzes them. If you’re analytical, you could be the mouthpiece like me or you, and you’re, you know, raising money, talking to brokers and, and getting the word out. You could be the. You know, the um, asset manager, if you’ve got some project management experience, construction experience, there’s lots of different hats you can wear, but you wanna play to your strengths. Your strengths are your greatest assets. Don’t try to maximize your fears. You’re gonna get much further. Like I said, if you hire aligner partner for your weaknesses, you know, some of the most successful. Um, partnerships I see in the business are an analytical, introverted person with an extroverted, outgoing person. I mean, that’s a match made in heaven in our business. ’cause our business is primarily empirical. You ask the right questions, uh, and, and you get the numbers right. You know, it’s kind of hard to make a big mistake. Um, and so. You know, just make sure you’re playing to your strengths and when you’re playing to your strengths, you’re gonna have passion and passion’s required to influence people. Right? ’cause you love what you do, so you’re passionate about it. So again, real heavy duty argument to play to your strengths. Yeah, I think the last piece, the last piece is, is peer group. Um, you know, who you hang out with is who you become. You’ve heard it, you’ve heard it before. So if you’re gonna get into something, get around people that are doing it. Like my Warrior Coaching program, I’m, I’m gonna brag. I, I, like I said, they own 300,000 multifamily units that we know of. I’m, I, it’s, we’re counting, uh, we know it’s close to 300,000. We’re at like 275,000 or something. I know there’s a lot we’re missing. And, you know, tons of senior housing, tons of self storage, tons of industrial flex space, um, retail mixed use, you name it. Uh, mobile home parks, and. Almost all of those deals were done between warriors, between my students. So you know, ha, who you hang out with is who you become. You know, if you show me your three best friends, I’ll show you who you are in your relationships, your happiness, your health, and definitely your finances. But see, so many people default to a peer group they went to school with or they work with, and those people with their own fears or limiting beliefs might hold you back, you know, afraid of losing you, afraid of feeling less than if you succeed. And sometimes it’s family. I’m gonna tell you, love your family, but proactively choose your peers. Right? You know, and when I was losing everything in 2008 and oh nine, I was in Tony Robbins Platinum Partnership and there were people there that were killing it in that crash, uh, you know, thriving. And they’re like, get up, you puss. 50 million Schmill. Go make something happen. That’s who you wanna be around, not only while you’re building, but certainly when the proverbial stuff hits the fan, right? Uh, so anyway. I, that those are, those are some of the big pieces. Yeah. Well, that, I mean, that’s, let, let’s talk a little bit about the, the business that you’re in. Um, you know, you’re, you’re heavily involved with real estate. Obviously these, uh, mindset things are a great place to start. Now you go out there, let’s talk about where the market actually is and what you’re seeing in this market right now. Does your represent opportunity to you? There’s a ton of opportunity because there’s a ton of people in trouble, sadly. Right. Okay. A lot, a lot of people got adjustable bridge debt. You know, these rates have gone through the moon. I’ll give you a small example. We were looking at a small asset in San Antonio where I’ve got some assets and I. And there, the lender reserve payment that this guy had to pay to prepare for a refinance went from 8,000 a month to 80,000 a month. Do you think that’s painful? Right. And you know, and, and when you’ve got a multi tens of millions of dollar loan on a property and the interest rates adjust several points, you’re done. And, and so that’s just on the interest rate piece. Uh, mentioning my SEC attorney had six foreclosures in one day, apartment complexes, uh, clients, new clients that came to him, he told me like three weeks ago. So who knows how many since then. But you know, there’s a lot of deals and trouble and it’s sad. It’s very sad. But, uh, that’s just one piece is the loans. Uh, the expenses have gone through the thick and roof. I mean, I’ve got maintenance supervisor that’s making $40 an hour at this point, which is crazy. Uh, you know, I, I teach at my bootcamps. Uh, I used to teach a 50% expense ratio. That’s what you want to have. Now I teach 60% ’cause they’ve gone up that much. And so, you know, there’s a lot of pain in the market. But with crisis comes opportunity. There’s incredible deals. I’ve got a a, a 200 unit asset in San Antonio. Um. That is on a lake, and right next door is a 300 unit, 300 plus unit asset. Um, it’s sold the 300 units sold for 43 million in 21 or 22. It’s, it’s with the bank, it’s down to 28 million now. And I’m not even interested unless it gets to 24, unless the rates drop significantly. And so 43 to 24. So that’s what’s out there right now. And di I think you just bought a, a deal at like a 40% discount, didn’t you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And here’s the thing, which is what I wanted to get into as well, and I I just bring, bring people’s attention to it, is that these times in history don’t happen that frequently. Right? Right. And it, and it’s interesting what the, the last multiple, uh, opportunities we’ve, we’ve, we’ve capitalized on, they have been all these situations where it’s a debt problem, right? It’s, it’s an asset that’s performing fine. But someone’s got a month, uh, to go and they just need to get out. They’re gonna lose all their equity, their debts due. Um, yeah, their debts do, there’s like this, this wall of debt, like, I think it’s like a trillion dollars of debt due by the end of this year. So what we’re seeing is, you know, the last several opportunities, 30 to 40% discounts on basis, uh, compared to just two or three years ago. And I think the challenges for investors is that like. In the background, those of us who’ve been through the pain are still feeling the pain and you feel very gun shy about it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, and you also start thinking, well, 30 to 40% discounts. Uh, you know, this, this is, this sounds very scary, but in, in reality, I, I’m trying to get people to understand that, that those discounts only last for so long, right? I mean, that if you look at like the, the debt. That’s out there. Most of that really bad debt washes away at the end of this year. At 2026. Yeah. After that, like those 30 to 40% discounts that like people are hearing so often, they’re not gonna be there anymore. No, that’s, and what I, and what I hate to see is people wait two or three years from now and all of a sudden there’s a frothy market and everybody’s jumping on the bwa. ’cause that’s what they always do. That’s not, you wanna be a net seller in that market. That’s right. And, and you know, it’s like you mentioned Warren Buffet’s famous quote, be greedy when others are fearful and fearful when they’re greedy. And, and so right now they’re fearful, which is making harder to raise money. And I’m, I’m having the same conversations. It’s like, Hey, if there was ever a time, it’s right now and now. Now the key, now the key. Differentiator or key factor is it’s all about cash flow. You know, like I said, that that deal at 43 is down to 28. 28 still doesn’t make sense for me. So it’s all about cash flow. And so, you know, I wrote a bestselling book. I’ll brag about, hang on, I’ll show it here. It’s called How to Create Lifetime Cash Flow through Multifamily Properties. The reason I bring this up is the subtitle is The New Rules of Real Estate Investing IE The new rules is it’s all about cash flow. I don’t, you know, I can brag about what you, you know, the discounts you can buy a property for, but it, it’s all about the numbers. It’s got a pencil, it, so cash flow is king. Um, so would you agree with that? Oh, a hundred percent. No. The interesting thing is though, that like, that’s a, that’s actually in real estate. That’s a principle I think a lot of people had, and I think what ends up happening is when the market gets frothy, you kind of skip that step, right? Because then what you’re, then what happens is that the market becomes so competitive that you’re trying to project, okay, I can get this from here to here and I can make it cash flow pretty quickly. And that’s when it gets dangerous, right? Yeah, yeah. Because listen, when Mark, when, when, when rates were, were as low as they were, you could do that. Now what? As soon as they started accelerating, well then you just got behind and, and you, you couldn’t catch up. And that’s kind of what happened. No, that’s it. And the expenses. Yeah. Yeah. They, the business about this market though, and maybe you can get some perspective on this, is what happens. You’ve experienced multiple real estate cycles and one of the opportunities that real estate investors have had throughout the decades is investing in a market where interest rates start to fall. What happens? Well, what happens is, is, is, is, is values As values go up, you know, and here’s the other thing, you know, uh, uh, with inflation, inflation’s not going away. And when you buy a property, the debt’s locked unless you do the adjustable rate thing. But if, if you get a normal, a normal mortgage. The, the rent, the debt is locked, but your, your interest, your rents are gonna continue to climb here. They’re going up, they’re gonna keep going up. And, you know, and, and of course the value of, of what we do is based on a multiple of the net income, the NOI, the net operating income. So any increase of the rents is gonna go to the bottom line. And, and so your values are gonna go up. So again, incredible opportunity to get into this real estate now. With the debasement of the US currency, with with, with all the money they’re printing and everything else, you’re, you’re seeing incredible rises in, in hard assets like gold, silver, of course, we saw a crash in Bitcoin ’cause it’s ethereal, it’s air, but, but real estate, uh, is, is you look at it over, over, you know, 50 years and, and it only goes one direction. It has some dips, but it continues to go one direction. And, and so, you know, I, I love real estate. I always have and. And, and always will. And so, you know, that’s why I teach it, you know, I do, I teach multi and I now teach multiple asset classes. I just taught multifamily for a long time, but now I teach pretty much every asset class and I’m, yeah. So what’s, uh, housing too? Yeah. Tell us a little bit about senior housing and um, yeah, what you’re doing there. I, I, I’ve only purchased one assisted living facility so far, but my students, my God, I can’t even count how many assisted living facilities and memory care units they have. But I, I’m, I’m gearing up. I have a whole team doing it. Uh, we’re cold calling and, and, and the, the, the out, the goal is. Is, uh, uh, 12 units in the next 18, I’m sorry, 12 separate facilities in the next 18 months. And we’re growing up to do that. Uh, we’ve got a ton of interest. And here’s the, here’s the reason why they call it the silver tsunami. There’s, there’s six, 10,000 people a day turning 65, and it goes forever. And it seems like forever. I mean like literally a over a decade and. And again, um, you know, those people. Uh, so there’s a lot of opportunity with that. There’s an opportunity to buy businesses as well. A lot of ’em wanna retire and own businesses, so there’s an opportunity there. But, but, um, in senior housing, there’s, there’s a huge shortage of beds. And, and I’m quite candidly, I’m not sure we’re gonna be able to match the need in the shortage of beds, but there’s a huge shortage of beds and, and so, um, you know, and to build new. The about the least you can build a place for is $200,000 a bed. Well, there are facilities that got crushed by COVID where you can buy. Facilities for sub a hundred dollars a bed. So there’s, there’s a, there’s an opportunity there that we’re capitalizing on. It’s very exciting. Uh, that won’t be around there a lot of, is there a lot of competition from, you know, big money institutions, that kind of thing in this space that are sort of pushing prices up? Because I would think if they would have to, yeah. Yeah. I would think they would have the same sort of thesis overall. So the larger facilities, yes. The, you know, I, I’m not doing the, the 200 bed facilities, you know, I’m in the 50 to a hundred range, you know, uh, kind of the mom and pop range as it were. Uh, and. So, at least to start, I mean, at some point I’ll compete with the larger ones, but we’re starting there and, and there’s just an incredible opportunity to, to get to, and the returns are fantastic. I mean, we’re seeing 15% cash on cash, 25% IRR, realistically not BS returns. And so, you know, it’s very exciting, honestly. And, and, and, and, and again, it’s got legs. It’s not going anywhere. It’s not like one of these things that’s cyclical. There’s, there’s the, these people are retiring. They’ve impacted everything from Pampers diapers to suburbia, and they’re gonna impact, you know, senior housing in a big way. So, um, you know, it’s, it’s that, that’s exciting. Yeah. I got crushed by that wave in 2008. I got crushed by that wave. I’m surfing this wave. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Good for you. So tell us, you know, a little bit more about how people can get involved. It sounds like you got a lot going on there. So tell us about Well, I, I, I teach, you know, I teach this stuff. I have, I’ve had, I dunno, upwards of 20,000 people attend my bootcamps by the way. Really never had a complaint except that the breaks are too short. ’cause I, I packed three days into two days, but I teach this business and soup to nuts, how to find deals, how to pick a market, how to pick a team, how to underwrite them, how to finance them, how to raise all the money for them, on and on. And so if you go to Rods. links.com. That’s my link tree. That’s where my goal setting workshop is. If you want to do your goals, do it there. But, uh, if you come to my bootcamp, that’s the first thing we do. Uh, ’cause I, I need to have you get very focused on what you want. But, um, you know, it’s two days of training. I don’t sell anything and you can come for $47. So tell me your excuse. Okay? And the bonus, the bonuses are thousands of dollars. You get my deal evaluator software, my document library. You get all this stuff. And you know, and candidly, if you come to the bootcamp and. On Monday, you decide it wasn’t worth it, you didn’t love it. I don’t mean like it, I mean, love it. I’ll give you your 47 bucks back. It’s never happened, but it’s first time for everything. So, yeah, no, I, I, I love what I do. It comes out and what I do, and I, I spend time on mindset too, because again, that’s 80 to 90% of it. That’s why my students are so freaking successful. They actually do it. Um, and so. I, I, I really love it, and that’s where I’ll continue to do it. So I’m, I’m doing one of these virtual events pretty much every month and a half. I’ve got one coming up, I don’t know when this’ll air. I’ve got one coming up in March, March 7th and eighth, and there’ll be one, you know, 60, 45, 60 days after that. So, yeah. Fantastic. Rod, thanks so much for being on the show today. Oh, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Uh, thank you. And, and again, it’s Rod’s links or text links to 7 2 3 4 5. Matt, thanks. Thanks for having me on. Buck, it’s great to see you again. You make a lot of money, but are still worried about retirement. Maybe you didn’t start earning until your thirties, now you’re trying to catch up. Meanwhile, you’ve got a mortgage private school to pay for and you feel like you’re getting further and further behind. Now, good news, if you need to catch up on retirement, check out a program put off by some of the oldest and most prestigious life insurance companies in the world. It’s. Called Wealth Accelerator and it can help you amplify your returns quickly, protect your money from creditors, and provide financial protection to your family if something happens to you. The concepts here are used by some of the wealthiest families in the world, and there’s no reason why they can’t be used by you. Check it out for yourself by going to wealthformulabanking.com. Welcome back to the show everyone. Hope you enjoyed it. We talked about a lot of things, but I think the mindset step is really important. So if you’re one of those people. Who is worried about, you know, a time in your life right now, or that that things aren’t going well? Things can turn around really quickly. You just gotta have some, you know, you gotta have the right mindset. You gotta have the right goals. That’s it for me this week on Wealth Formula Podcast. This is Buck Joffrey sign now. If you wanna learn more, you can now get free access to our in-depth personal finance course featuring industry leaders like Tom Wheel Wright and Ken McElroy. Visit wealthformularoadmap.com.

For most of my career, I've been focused on two things: Operating businesses and Multifamily real estate. The strategy has been pretty simple. Take money generated from higher-risk, active businesses… and move it into more stable, long-term assets like apartment buildings. That shift—from risk to stability—is how I've tried to build durability over time. Now, to be fair, the sharp rise in interest rates a few years ago put a dent in that model. But zooming out, it's still worked well for me overall. So I'm sticking with it. That said, there are other ways to think about real estate. In some cases, the real opportunity is when you combine real estate with an operating business. We've done that before in the Wealth Formula Investor Club with self-storage, and the results were excellent. Storage is operationally simple, relatively boring—and that's exactly why it works. But there's another category that sits at the opposite end of the spectrum. Hotels. They're sexier.They're more volatile.And yes—they're riskier. But the upside can be dramatically higher. One of my closest friends here in Montecito has quietly built a fortune doing boutique hotels over the past few years. He started with a no-frills hotel in Texas serving the oil drilling industry. Over time, he combined his operational experience with his talent as a designer—and eventually created some of the highest-rated boutique hotels in the world. He's absolutely crushing it. Of course, most of us aren't world-class designers or architects. I'm certainly not. Still, his success made me curious. Hotels have been on my radar for a while now—not because I understand the business, but because I don't. When I asked him how he learned the hotel industry, his answer was honest: “I figured it out on the fly—starting with my first acquisition and a great broker.” That's usually how real learning happens. So this week on the Wealth Formula Podcast, I brought on an expert in hospitality investing to educate both of us. We cover the basics: How hotel investing actually worksWhere the real risks are (and where they aren't)How returns differ from multifamilyAnd what someone should understand before ever touching their first hotel deal If you've ever thought about buying or investing in hotels—but didn't know where to start—welcome to the club. You don't have to jump in tomorrow. But you do have to start somewhere. This episode is a good starting point. Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/545-should-you-invest-in-hotels/id718416620?i=1000748759003 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5Lx5Rp4x704lWRazWLqDOK Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/GMFf6-g8w_0 Transcript Disclaimer: This transcript was generated by AI and may not be 100% accurate. If you notice any errors or corrections, please email us at phil@wealthformula.com. Welcome everybody. This is Buck Joffrey with the Wealth Formula Podcast coming to you from Montecito, California. Before we begin today, I wanna remind you, if you’ve not done so and you are an accredited investor, go to wealthformula.com, sign up for our investor club. Uh, the opportunity there is really to see private deal flow that you wouldn’t otherwise see because it can’t be advertised. And, uh, only available to those people who are deemed accredited. And then what does accredited mean as a reminder? Well, if you’re married, you make $300,000 per year combined for at least two years with a reasonable expectation, continue to do so, or you have a net worth of a million dollars outside of your personal residence. Or if you’re single like me, $200,000 per year or a million dollars net worth. Anyway, that’s probably, uh, most of you. So all you gotta do is go to wealth formula.com, sign up for investor club because hey, who doesn’t wanna be part of a club? And, uh, by the way, it’s a great price. It’s free. So join it. Just get onboarded and all you gotta do is just wait for deal flow. What a deal. Now let’s talk about different kinds of things to invest in. For most of my career, I, I have really focused on two things I’ve focused on. Either operating businesses, uh, in my case, those operating businesses largely have been medical and multifamily real estate. Uh, the strategy itself, theoretically the way I think about it, take money from sort of these active businesses, a higher risk, move them into more stable long-term assets like apartment buildings. Okay? The idea is that’s how you build some durability over time. Now, to be fair, okay, to be fair. Sharp rise in interest rates a few years ago. Put a little bit of a dent in that model. But here’s the thing is that you can’t throw out the, uh, baby with the bath water. ’cause when I zoom out, still worked well for me overall. So I’m sticking with it and, uh, that’s my story. I’m sticking with it. That said, there are always other ways to think about real estate, right? Real estate is not just multifamily. Um, in some cases, the real opportunity is when you combine real estate and operating businesses. So. We’ve actually done that before in our wealth formula investor club. Um, and we’ve done that through self-storage, for example, and the results were really good. Storage is operationally, generally pretty simple. Probably not that simple, but you know, but more so than other things, relatively boring. Boring is good, and that’s exactly why it works. There’s another category that sits at the opposite end of the spectrum of boring, and it’s sexier and it’s more volatile and it’s riskier. And uh, that is the area of hotels, right, like leisure, that kind of thing. But the upside in those things can be dramatically higher. You know, one of my closest friends here. Montecito, I talk about him all the time. He’s a, he is a little bit of an inspiration to me, although I wouldn’t tell that to in space. He’s built a fortune doing boutique hotels over the past few years and the way he started, you know, and I think it was only about a decade ago because he bought like this no frills hotel in Texas that was serving the oil industry. There was a bunch of guys, you know, drilling needed a place to say, and you know, he had this and he actually. I don’t know that I would recommend this, but he, he told me he bought it sight unseen just based on the numbers. Ah, man, I gotta tell you, I don’t think I’m that lucky. If I bought something sight unseen, it would not work great for me, but it did work great for him. But over time, what he did is he, he combined his operational experience with his talent as he’s like a designer, like designs, homes, an architect, uh, of sorts, although more than that. Um, and he, he used to build houses for like famous people in Hollywood. Anyway, he took that skill and so he combined it with hotels and he created some of the highest rated boutique hotels in the world. And he’s absolutely crushing it. Just crushing it. Of course, the reality is that most of us aren’t world-class designers or architects. I’m certainly not. I’m not artistic at all. Still, um, you know, the fact that he’s had so much success in this space and that he loves hotels. What got me curious? So, hotels have been on my radar for a while, not because I understand the business, but actually because I don’t. And when I asked him how he learned, uh, about the hotel industry, he just said, you know, I figured out on the fly and, uh, you know, started with my first acquisition, had a great broker who taught me everything I, you know, needed to know at the beginning and. That’s a great story. I mean, and ideally that’s how things happen. As you can tell, this guy is, uh, seems to just hit on everything. So good for him. So this week on Wealth Formula Podcast, I wanted to get a little bit of a hotel investing 1 0 1. So I brought on an expert in hospitality investing that could educate both you and me. So we’re gonna cover some of the basics, how hotel actually works, you know, what are the risks returns. Like, what should people do if they even consider, you know, buying their first hotel or investing in one? So if you’ve ever thought about investing, uh, in hotels, or maybe that’s the first time you’re hearing about it and you’re curious, uh, welcome to the club and uh, we will have a great interview for you right after these messages. Wealth formula banking is an ingenious concept powered by whole life insurance, but instead of acting just as a safety net, the strategy supercharges your investments. First, you create a personal financial reservoir that grows at a compounding interest rate much higher than any bank savings account. As your money accumulates, you borrow from your own. Bank to invest in other cash flowing investments. Here’s the key. Even though you’ve borrowed money at a simple interest rate, your insurance company keeps paying you compound interest on that money even though you’ve borrowed it. At result, you make money in two places at the same time. That’s why your investments get supercharged. This isn’t a new technique. It’s a refined strategy used by some of the wealthiest families in history, and it uses century old rock solid insurance companies as its backbone. Turbocharge your investments. Visit Wealth formula banking.com. Again, that’s wealth formula banking.com. Welcome back to the show, everyone. Today. My guest on Wealth Farm I podcast is, uh, John O’Neill. He’s a, a professor of hospitality management and director of the Hospitality Real Estate Strategy Group at Pennsylvania State University. Uh, he spent decades studying hotel valuation performance, Cabo flows and economic cycles in in the lodging industry. John, thanks for, uh, joining us. You’re welcome. So, you know, we’re talking offline. You’ve been in the hotel business for a long time. We’re trying to figure out how to frame this thing because you know, I mean there are, I know there are certainly people in. Uh, who in, in my group and my listeners, my community who are in the hotel space, but a lot of ’em aren’t. And you know, they’ve been thinking about, well, you know, we do a lot of apartment buildings, that kind of thing. Um, you know, what else should we be thinking about? And so, you know, when we hear, uh, hotel, um, they’re thinking of hospitality. But from an investor’s perspective, I guess the first question ask is what kind of real estate asset is a hotel? And, and may, may maybe just sort of fundamentally how different it is. From apartments office or retail? Yeah, that’s a great question because hotels are fundamentally different. But what I’ve seen over the past few years as well is hotels have increasingly been considered to be a component of commercial real estate. So we’ve always thought about office and retail and residential and industrial as being components of commercial real estate, but increasingly. Investors are thinking about hotels that way as well, because some of the high risk aspects of hotels have been moderated a little bit. So they are still considered to be a high risk and potentially high reward category, but they’re much more cyclical than those other types of businesses. So if we look at apartment leases, maybe being a year or two. Office leases may be being three to five years and retail leases could be five or 10 years. The leases in hotels are one or two nights, so there’s upside, but there’s risk involved in that as well. So when there’s pressure in a market to increase rates, like here where I am in University Park, Pennsylvania, when we have a home football game. We can see hotels with average daily rates of maybe a hundred to $200 a night charging seven, eight, $900 per night, and filling up on those rates. You can’t do that in an office building or in a retail center. And so there’s great opportunity when demand increases to push up rates and to greatly benefit from that. The flip side of courses on Sunday night when all those guests leave. You might be back to a hundred dollars a night and running 20 or 30% occupancy. Do hotels kind of follow the rest of real estate in terms of market cycles though? Yeah, it depends. I, I would say in many cases they’re actually leaders, which again, double-edged sword there. So for, yeah, when we plummeted in 2020 because of COVID hotels were probably the first category really to see it. Demand dried up overnight, and you go back to September 11th, 2001 on September 12th, 2001, a lot of hotels were empty and that wasn’t the case with office buildings and retail centers. The flip side, of course, is when the economy started improving, hotel operators could start pushing their rates very quickly. And so other categories of commercial real estate didn’t receive those benefits. Yeah, I mean, obviously there’s certainly gonna be. Real estate that’s often used that that’s often using debt and, you know, probably has the same sort of, uh, issues with regard to cap rate compression or decompression based on interest rates as well. Right, right. So, um, where are we? Right? What would you say right now, like, I mean, we know that. Our, we’ve been following very closely on the multifamily side. You know, prices are depressed. I mean, from 2022, we’re looking at probably 30% to 40%. Most, most, uh, large apartment complexes are not moving because people don’t wanna sell into a down market. But when they are, they’re being sold at 30, 40% discounts compared to 2022. Where is the, where is the hotel? Market at right now? It it, it’s challenged because right now we’re seeing discrepancies between where buyers wanna buy and sellers wanna sell. We’ve started to see some movement because some sellers have come down a bit in pricing because of what we’ve seen in 2025, the market really did soften as far as the hotel business is concerned. So in 2025. We really saw no increase in occupancy and in many markets we saw some decreases in occupancy. We are still seeing average daily rates going up a little bit, so yeah. Might be worth maybe a quick step backward that the two key indicators in terms of hotel lodging performance would be occupancy and average daily rate. With occupancy being the extent to which the guest rooms are occupied and average daily rate being the average price somebody is paying. We can talk about the mathematics of those, but, um, just I think conceptually, hopefully that makes sense. But, so, you know, at this point what we’re seeing is average daily rates are still going up a little bit, and the forecasts for 2026 are. Pretty much more of the same, where we’re not expected to see great occupancy increases, but we are anticipating that the average daily rates might go up a little bit. Uh, and, and in fact we might see occupancies decline slightly. And, uh, we might see, uh, average daily rates still possibly going up a little bit. That’s usually an indicator of being late in the cycle, you know, being somewhere near the peak and, and, you know, if the trough was 2020. Which was a pretty deep trough. 2021, we started seeing improvements and we saw great improvements in 22, 23, and 24, and so it’s looking like the end of a cycle. The thing we don’t really know for sure is, is there some reason that we’re going to really go into a substantial down period or are we actually in a situation where we’re going to have another upcycle? Yeah. You know, the other thing I was curious about too, like when you talk about these cycles for hotels, even within hotels, there are certainly, you know, different types of hotels. You know, there’s the boutiquey ones that are pe really pure tourism versus the ones that, okay, well maybe they are, you know, good for football games or. There’s others that are people use for, for, for work frequently, right? They’re, they’re just passing through for, for work trips. Do you, is there, um, is that difficult to extricate those types of different economies running at the same time? It’s not, I, I don’t know that it’s that difficult, you know, just to give you a little bit about my background, I’ve been a professor for some time, but prior to being a professor I worked for. Three of the four major hospitality organizations, namely Marriott, IHG, and Hyatt. Uh, and so going back into the 1980s when I was doing feasibility studies for proposed Marriott hotels, we, in most markets, analyzed three markets segments. And, and you essentially said what they are commercial business, which are your business travelers, leisure business, which are your pleasure travelers, and then groups, which includes conventions and, and those are still the three major market segments in most markets. In, in some markets. For example, if you’re approximate to a major international airport, there’s usually a fourth segment, which is that fourth segment is airline crew business, which is, is very different than the other three because. Whereas the other three go up and down throughout, not just the year, but throughout the week. Airline crew business tends to be stable throughout the year, so it, it, it’s in your hotel 365 nights outta the year. So it’s, it’s a very low risk, but also a very low rated market segment. So it, I don’t know if that’s that complicated, but it just needs to be broken out as you delineated it, which is that there’s. Three or four market segments in any market. And in terms of studying a hotel for development or for investment, it’s necessary to understand not just what’s going on on the supply side, in other words what’s going on in the hotels, but what’s going on in the demand side as well. So give you an example. I recently did a feasibility study in a market, which is a big pharmaceutical market. So I actually spent time with major pharmaceutical people talking about, where are you staying now? Why are you staying there? Are you a member of the Frequent traveler program? How does your business vary throughout the year? What rates are you paying? What facilities and amenities are you seeking? And things like that. So to really understand the demand because that demand segment. So important in that market. So it is ultimately a street corner business and what’s going on in a specific market in terms of the mix of commercial, leisure and group business and possibly other market segments. Really is something that we have to study in depth when we conduct a feasibility study or an appraisal for hotel. I, I don’t know if I mentioned, I’m a licensed real estate appraiser too, and although my licenses allow me to appraise any type of property, I only appraise hotels. Got it. Businesses fundamentally changed pre COVID and post COVID. I would assume that there’s probably less travel. Are you seeing impact? On those types of hotels from that kind of, you know, less travel, more zoom type activity. Yeah. And, and that’s a great, that’s a great follow up because with those market segments, although the segments are the same. The demand from each of those segments really has different, and, and as you said, it really changed substantially in COVID. It, it, it’s fascinating how once we were forced to use Zoom and, and other, you know, Microsoft teams and other technology like that, you know, we, we kind of did a kicking and screaming. But once we figured it out, we realized we didn’t get a lot done. Uh, now I spent last week in Los Angeles at America’s Lodging Investment Summit, and I go to this. Function every year, because I see many of the same people year after year, and the business cards might change, but it’s the same people involved in the hotel business, whether they’re brokers or investors or asset managers or consultants or appraisers. But in between. Each year I do a lot on Zoom with these people and you know, we can keep those relationships going. So it hasn’t eliminated, you know, in my personal case, my need to travel, but it has substantially reduced it. And I think a lot of other business people have seen the same thing. So if we look at the recovery since COVID, it was fascinating because the first market segment that recovered and recovered really strongly was leisure business and people, people see it as their right. To have a vacation and, and people were paying high rates, particularly in, in, in mountain locations and in beach locations. And so those rates came up really quickly. And then the group business followed. If people do wanna go to group functions like I did last week in la what has not recovered to the level of 2019 though is the business travel. Right. Interesting. So I, that’s probably a, uh, you know, and he, I can’t really see a particularly promising future for that Subsect either. Right. I think, in fact, bill Gates said it’s never going to be back to the, you know, he, he’s an investor in Four Seasons hotels, and he said it’ll never be back to the way it was in 2019. I don’t know if he’s right. I mean, because I, I still feel like we get a lot of things done. Face-to-face, person to person that we really can’t do in Zoom. I don’t think Zoom is great for establishing relationships. I, I still think that we need face-to-face, uh, personal contact. But, you know, that might be just my perspective because I’ve been working in hotels since I was a teenager and I’m really far from being a teenager now. And, you know, I, I’ve been indoctrinated in this philosophy of the importance of face-to-face contact. But yeah, you know, that might be generational. You with a younger generation. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, just kind of going back to the difference differences, uh, with compared to other real estate hotels, ultimately the, one of the big differences, they’re operating businesses, right? I mean, they’re not that large. Apartment buildings aren’t, but they’re is I think, a specific sort of operational execution that matters a lot in hotels. So, you know, in invest, when investors are kinda looking at that, I mean, they, they should probably be not looking at it as nearly as passive as other real estate investments. Is that fair? I, I think that’s very fair because I think, you know, it, it shows what’s happened in terms of the market with real estate investment trust. Because I’ve sold my entire position in hotel real estate investment trust and, and as you probably know, if we look at real estate investment trust. Different categories in, in commercial real estate, hotels lag, which is fascinating because everything else we’ve been talking about explains why hotel returns tend to outperform other classes of commercial real estate. More volatility, but higher returns on average. If you can withstand the long period, uh, that you need to be an investor. On real estate investment trust, it’s the opposite. Hotels actually lag and, and I think it really is because of exactly what you’re talking about, which is that they really are like an operating business where there’s also real estate as opposed to a real estate play where it’s almost like there’s an annuity of rent that is very easily projected, uh, in hotels. You know, we, we. Project all the time how they’re going to perform. But you know, you know, I hope my projections are very good, but there’s always things that can COVID. For example, you know, now there’s a virus in, in India that you know might be coming and, you know, we don’t know, will this be substantial or will it be really minor in the Americas? We really don’t know. Uh, that won’t have a big effect on, on other classes of real estate investment trust, but. It could have a big effect in hotels, so, so the unknowns in hotels are very high. And then when you combine that with the fact that they are an operating business, which are very labor intensive and wage rates are going up. So the cost structure and the management of that cost structure becomes. Very important and the expertise of the hotel managers becomes very important. And so, yeah, like you say, other classes of commercial real estate or, or institutional real estate investments have an operational component. It’s much greater when it comes to hotels. So I actually have a friend who’s an, um, owns, uh, a few boutique hotels here in, in California, and he was telling me one of the things that he’s kind of worried about is, um, you know, they, they’re, they have some, um. Some mandates coming up with regard to, you know, minimum wage and, and all these things that, uh, hotel workers have to get, uh, give you just outta curiosity. I mean, most of my audience is not in California. I am, but have you heard about this? Can you tell us a little bit about those pressures? Yeah, I have heard about it. And there’s, there’s forces on the other side as well, namely the American Hotel and Lodging Association, which represents hotel owners, managers, and franchisers. And so they have a voice in these things as well. But the, the, the forest, particularly in places like California and, and in the west coast in general, we’ve seen it in Seattle as well. Um, you know, in, in terms of increasing minimum wages to rates that, that are shocking to me. Um, you know, that’s, that’s a big issue. You know, you don’t see it as much in the middle of the country, but you do see it on the coast and particularly in the, on the West Coast. So, you know, if we’re looking at projections, say into 2026 and, and perhaps beyond, we expect in many cases to be seeing higher growth in wage expenses than we expect to see growth in RevPAR, which is room revenue, preoccupied room, which is just occupancy times average daily rate. So the, the overall revenue is expected, at least in the short term, to grow more slowly. Than expenses and, and wages are really driving a lot of it. And then anything that’s affected by wages, so insurance, for example, property taxes, other expenses are really growing at this stage more than what we’ve seen in terms of revenue growth. So that’s, that’s a challenge right now. The, the question I think really then is how much will AI affect that and to what extent will guests become more comfortable with checking in? On an iPad type of a situation as opposed to seeing a person face to face, and there’s probably generational differences there. What it is forcing hotel operators to do is the same kinds of things that restaurant operators have been forced to do, which is find ways to use technology and actually have the guests face the technology and get the guests comfortable with that. In terms of things like check in and check out, you know, but still in hotels the rooms have to be cleaned and, and although there’s robots that. You know, they’re nowhere near what, where they need to be to actually clean Hotel guestroom jet, at least in any sort of economically viable way. But, you know, the long-term question is to what extent will the industry be adopting AI and other technology in order to address that issue? Because that’s what’s going to happen. It’s, it’s, you know, it’s not just going to be a situation where. The operators will accept paying higher wages and have the same number of employees in each hotel. Right. Um, branding, you know, sort of confusing to a lot of people. Not in the space, but you know, what role do hotel brands actually kind of play in, in protecting revenue and value? Um, and I guess when does a brand help an owner versus become a constraint? Yeah. You know, brands have been very important and, and I, I forget if I mentioned but of the, the big brand companies I’ve worked for three of them and, um. You know, they, they, they typically started as management companies. So originally companies like Hilton and Marriott primarily generated revenue through management fees. And so they own some of the real estate, although they’ve become asset light over the years and own very little, if any, anymore. Uh, but they do still manage hotels. So one thing that the brand companies do have is expertise in terms of management. That’s one of the fees that a branded hotel and a non-branded hotel would have as well, would be a management fee, which is usually expressed as a percentage of revenue. And sometimes there’s an incentive structure in there as well. But then there’s a franchise fee, which is just paying for the brand, and, and that’s usually as a percentage of total revenue, higher than the management fee. But what it does is it, it, it. Puts the property in a global distribution system, so the global distribution systems that brands like Marriott and Hilton and IHG and, and HIA have, uh, they. Generate heads and beds. You know, that’s, that’s the term we always, when I worked at Hyatt and Merritt, we always talked about heads and beds. Every night you’re trying to, trying to get people in the rooms. The brands do a lot to put heads and beds, you know, in a typical hotel with a good brand affiliation. Somewhere between probably a third and two thirds of the occupy rooms actually came in through the brand global distribution system, which historically was a toll free reservation system. And although the, you know, those still exist now, it’s really more of a focus on the online system and, and, and sometimes toll-free reservations and direct reservations. But, but that’s what the brand does. It, it, it ultimately is a generator of. So kind of just focusing on somebody who’s potentially thinking about hotels as an investment. So far, what I gleaned from you, and, and correct me if I’m wrong, is that timing probably isn’t perfect right now. We’re probably, you know, we’re probably in a, you know, a peak and you generally not a great idea to buy in peaks. Um. I personally, from what I understand, would stay outta California. You know, uh, you know, like my friend was saying that it was gonna make it very difficult for a lot of hotels to have their, you know, hotel restaurants even. And so he foresees like a lot of them having to close those down. Um, and then the, the next thing I think is, gosh, you really have to be cognizant of the, of the fact that, you know, work patterns are changing. And so maybe that’s not a good. Way to go, either. What other, what are some other big picture things that you think people ought to be thinking about as they evaluate the space? Yeah. Well, I think there’s a couple of things. One of which is. That is a street corner business. So it really depends on what street corner you’re in. Uh, I’ve done some research just on how hotels perform in university towns versus other locations because, for example, there are brands now called graduate hotels, which eventually was acquired by Hilton, uh, and, uh, scholar Hotels and, and these properties are university town hotels. They’re doing okay. You know, they’re, they’re doing okay. If you look at how universities operate, we’ve seen some Ivy League schools pay 60, $80 million or more just to make sure they keep that billion dollars a year coming in from the federal government that they, they get for research grants and, and we’ve seen, you know, look at what’s going on with NIL now in terms of, of university sports. Universities clearly are willing to. You gen willing to spend a lot of money to keep doing what they do, which is, you know, they, they generate a lot of research and I’m talking about. Big universities now, uh, you know, a lot of research and, and there’s a sporting business aspect to universities as well. So university towns are okay, and, and what I ultimately found in my research is they’re much less cyclical than the average. So, you know, we talk about the risk of hotels as things go up and things go down and things go up and down. That doesn’t happen as much in university towns. You know, big universities don’t close and, and don’t even substantially change their business model. So it really depends on, on where you’re located. And then there’s certain cities as well, you know, people, you know, I, I don’t have to go into detail about my last visit to San Francisco and how weird it was, and I was with students and, and told my female students don’t go out at night alone. I mean, it was, it was, it was really freaky, but. San Francisco now might be a place to invest. Now San Francisco probably has bottomed out. Uh, and the same might be true with New York. So, you know, it really depends on where you’re going. I, I think in general, yeah, you know, there’s, there’s concerns, but even so, you know, I think it’s still might be a good time to invest in. Good quality hotel companies, just, you know, in terms of the stock market and, and equity in, in businesses like Marriott and, and Hilton because their franchise fees and their management fees are a percentage of total revenue. So hotels that are not profitable, that are a member of those brand affiliations are still paying. Into those systems and you know, hopefully the goal is that these properties become profitable, but even while they’re not profitable, they owe franchise fees and in some cases management fees as well. So I think there are a lot of ways to still invest in the hotel business. It’s just what vehicles are being used and where. So, you know, it sounds a little overwhelming, um, for someone who, again, who’s new to the space. Any suggestions on how somebody might just learn more about this ecosystem and, you know, start to go down this path of potentially becoming, you know, a hotel investor? Yeah. Well, first thing is, you know, we talked about ai. AI is pretty good for helping people to learn. So if you wanna learn about the hotel business, you can go and have a really good conversation with chat GPT about what makes it click and where could the opportunities lie today. Uh, you know, I’ve gone over the past year from essentially not using AI at all to using it essentially every day. And so that’s a great way because that’ll access a lot of, there, there’s trade journals, for example, but it’ll access those things. Uh, the conference, like I went to last week, the America’s Lodging Investment Summit, which is in LA every year is a. Is a great place to learn as well. There’s, there’s wonderful sessions and that conference is attended by everybody from Anthony Capano, who’s the CEO of Marriott, down to people involved in real estate and investments in the hotels and, and who essentially make their living. Off of those as brokers, appraisers, consultants, asset managers and things like that. So, so there’s ways online to do it and there’s ways to do it actually by attending conferences as well. Yeah. A good broker as well. Right. I mean, you know, going back to my, my friend who, who’s become a very successful hotelier, the first one he bought, he threw a broker and he said he learned everything about hotels that he knows from that guy. Um. So that’s probably, it probably tells you something as well. Yeah. And, and there are some excellent hotel brokers. There’s some who are national in scope and some who are local in scope. So again, it depends on where you’re thinking you might wanna be investing. Uh, but, but there’s some great local brokers, but then there’s national firms like JLL and CBRE and Hunter, uh, that, you know, they have really good people who are very knowledgeable about the hotel business. Yeah. John, thanks so much for, uh, joining us here on Wealth Formula Podcast and giving us sort of an overview of the, uh, um, hotel, uh, real estate, uh, uh, asset class. You bet you make a lot of money, but are still worried about retirement. Maybe you didn’t start earning until your thirties. Now you’re trying to catch up. Meanwhile, you’ve got a mortgage, a private school to pay for, and you feel like you’re getting further and further behind. Now, good news, if you need to catch up on retirement, check out a program put out by some of the oldest and most prestigious life insurance companies in the world. It’s called Wealth Accelerator, and it can help you amplify your returns quickly, protect your money from creditors, and provide financial protection to your family if something happens to. The concepts here are used by some of the wealthiest families in the world, and there’s no reason why they can’t be used by you. Check it out for yourself by going to wealth formula banking.com. Welcome back to the show everyone. Hope you enjoyed and again, uh, hey hotels. Think about it. I guess. Uh, I continue. I will continue to do so, uh, especially given my buddy’s success in this space. Um. Although, I will tell you, I probably am not a boutique hotel guy. Um, you know, I don’t, I don’t know that I could make it super fancy, you know? And then on the other hand, you hear about these, uh, hotels that are. For the people traveling through and they’re not doing this so great. So maybe wait till that we hit that, um, that trough that he was talking about, he said we’re kind of at a peak right now. Anyway, that’s it for me. Uh, this week on Wealth Formula Podcast. This is Buck Joffrey signing off. If you wanna learn more, you can now get free access to our in-depth personal finance course featuring industry leaders like Tom Wheel Wright and Ken McElroy. Visit well formula roadmap.com.

This week's episode of Wealth Formula features an interview with Claudia Sahm, and I want to share a quick takeaway before you listen — because she's often misunderstood in the headlines. First, a quick explanation of the Sahm Rule, in plain English. The rule looks at unemployment and asks a very simple question:Has the unemployment rate started rising meaningfully from its recent low? Specifically, if the three-month average unemployment rate rises by 0.5% or more above its lowest level over the past year, the Sahm Rule is triggered. Historically, that has happened early in every U.S. recession since World War II. That's why it gets cited so much. And to be clear — it's cited a lot. The Sahm Rule is tracked by the Federal Reserve, Treasury economists, Wall Street banks, macro funds, and economic research shops globally. When it triggers, it shows up everywhere. That's not by accident. Claudia built one of the cleanest early-warning indicators we have. But here's the part that often gets lost. The Sahm Rule is not a market-timing tool and it's not a prediction machine. Claudia emphasized this repeatedly. It was designed as a policy signal — a way to say, “Hey, if unemployment is rising this fast, waiting too long to respond makes things worse.” In other words, it's a call to action for policymakers, not a command for investors to panic. What makes this cycle unusual — and why talking to Claudia directly was so helpful — is what's actually driving the data. We're not seeing mass layoffs. Layoffs remain low by historical standards. What we're seeing instead is very weak hiring. Companies aren't firing people — they're just not expanding. That distinction matters. And this is where I think the big picture comes in — not just for understanding the economy, but for investing in general. When you step back, the big picture includes a government with massive debt loads that needs interest rates to come down over time. It includes fiscal pressures that make prolonged high rates politically and economically painful. And it includes the reality that if the current Fed leadership won't ease fast enough, future leadership will. History tells us that governments eventually get the monetary conditions they need — even if it takes time, even if it takes new appointments, and even if it takes a shift toward a more dovish Federal Reserve. That doesn't mean reckless money printing tomorrow. But it does mean that structurally high rates are unlikely to be permanent. And when you combine that with investing, the question becomes less about this month's headline and more about what's positioned to benefit when the environment normalizes. That's why I continue to focus on real assets that are already deeply discounted — things like multifamily real estate — assets that were repriced brutally during the rate shock, but still sit at the center of a growing, rent-dependent economy. This conversation with Claudia reinforced something I've been talking about for a long time:The biggest investing mistakes usually happen when people zoom in too far and forget to zoom back out. I've made this mistake myself. If you want a thoughtful, non-sensational, data-driven discussion about where we actually are in this cycle — and what the indicators really mean — I think you'll get a lot out of this episode. Transcript Disclaimer: This transcript was generated by AI and may not be 100% accurate. If you notice any errors or corrections, please email us at phil@wealthformula.com. Welcome everybody. This is Buck Joffrey with the Well Formula Podcast coming to you from Montecito, California. Before we begin today, I wanna remind you, uh, listen, we’re back in, uh, back in the saddle in here in, uh, 2026. I know it’s takes some time to get used to it, but we’re, gosh, we’re at the end of the month actually by the time this plays. I think we’re in February. It’s time again to start thinking about investing. And so if you are interested in potentially using this year, which I believe and which many believe to potentially be the last year, uh, big discounts, uh, in real estate and, uh, various other types of offerings. Make sure. To sign up for the Accredit Investor group, our investor club, as we call it wealthformula.com. You do need to be an accredit investor and then you get onboarded. An accredit investor is just defined by who you are. If you make over $300,000 per year filing jointly, or 200 by yourself, every reasonable expectation to do so in the future. Or you have a net worth of a million dollars outta your personal, outside of your personal residence, you’re an accredit investor. Congratulations. Join the club wealthformula.com. Interesting podcast. Today we have, uh, Claudia Sahm She’s a Big Deal, Claudia Sahm. You may recognize that last name som, for this som rule. And what is a som rule in plain English. You actually have heard of the som rule multiple times from other economists who’ve been on the show. The som rule looks at unemployment. And asks a very simple question. Now, has the unemployment rate started rising meaningfully from its recent low? So specifically, if the three month average unemployment rate rises 0.5% or more above its lowest level, over the past year, this som rule is triggered. Now, historically, that has happened early in every US recession since the World War ii. That’s why it gets cited so much. It gets cited a lot. By the way, the sum rule is tracked by the Fed treasury economists, wall Street Banks, macro funds, economic research shops globally, and when it triggers, it shows up everywhere, and that’s not by accident. Uh, Claudia has built one of the cleanest early warning indicators we have, but here’s the part that often gets lost. The som rule is not a market timing tool, and it’s not a prediction machine. Claudia, uh, emphasized that repeatedly. It was designed as a policy signal, a way to say, Hey, if unemployment’s rising this fast, wait, waiting too long to respond makes things worse. In other words, it’s call to action for policy makers, not a command for investors to panic per se. So what makes this cycle unusual and why talking to Claudia directly was so helpful? Well, it’s what’s actually driving the data. We’re not seeing mass layoffs. Layoffs remain low by historical standards. Um, what we’re seeing instead is very weak. Hiring companies aren’t firing people, they’re just not expanding, and that distinction matters. This is where the big picture comes in, not just for understanding the economy. For investing in general and when you step back, the big picture includes a government with massive debt loads that need interest rates to come down over time. It includes fiscal pressures that make prolonged high rates politically and economically painful. I’ve mentioned this before and it includes the reality that have to fed, fed, uh, if the current Fed leadership won’t ease fast enough. I am likely the case that future leadership appointed by. Donald Trump himself, uh, will, so history tells us that governments eventually get the monetary conditions they need, even if it takes time, even if it takes new appointments. And even if it takes a shift towards a more dovish federal reserve. Uh, that doesn’t mean, uh, reckless money printing tomorrow, but it does mean that structurally. High interest rates are unlikely to be permanent. Okay? And when you combine that with investing, the question becomes less about this month’s headline and more about what’s positioned to benefit when the environment normalizes. Okay? That’s really, really important, and that’s why I continue to focus on things like real estate, right? Real estate is currently. Not for long, in my opinion, but deeply discounted things like multifamily real estate, um, that were repriced brutally during the rate shot, uh, but are still at the center of a growing and, and rent dependent economy. And again, uh, this conversation with Claudia reinforced something that I’ve been talking about a long time, which is the biggest investing mistakes usually happen when people zoom in too far and forget to zoom back out. I’ve made that mistake myself. I am not immune. I have made lots of mistakes, and that’s one of them. So this is a great conversation. Hopefully you’ll enjoy it, especially if you want a thoughtful, nons sensational data-driven discussion. Where we are actually at in this cycle and what these indicators really mean. I think you’ll get a lot of this episode and we will have this conversation for you right after these messages. Wealth formula banking is an ingenious concept powered by whole life insurance, but instead of acting just as a safety net. The strategy supercharges your investments. First, you create a personal financial reservoir that grows at a compounding interest rate much higher than any bank savings account. As your money accumulates, you borrow from your own bank to invest in other cash flowing investments. Here’s the key. Even though you borrowed money at a simple interest rate, your insurance company keeps. Paying you compound interest on that money even though you’ve borrowed it at result, you make money in two places at the same time. That’s why your investments get supercharged. This isn’t a new technique. It’s a refined strategy used by some of the wealthiest families in history, and it uses century old rock solid insurance companies as its backbone. Turbocharge your investments. Visit Wealthformulabanking.com. Again, that’s wealth formula banking.com. Welcome back to the show, everyone. Today my guest on Wealth Formula podcast is Dr. Claudia Sahm. Uh, she’s an American, uh, macroeconomic expert, uh, known for her work, uh, on monetary and fiscal policy and real-time economic indicators. She developed this som rule, which I think, uh, people have mentioned on this show before, so this is a great opportunity to talk to her about that. Uh, it’s a widely, uh, followed recession signal based on unemployment. She’s also a former Federal Reserve economist and senior policy advisor in government. Um, so welcome, uh, Dr. Sahm. Great. Happy to be here. Thank you. Well, let’s, let’s kind of start out with this som rule because, uh, you know, it’s funny, we, we have had a few different people, uh, at various times bring up the SOM rule, and I think one had actually said that it was triggered, but I don’t don’t think it was at any rate, let’s, let’s start with that. What is the som rule? Lemme start with why is there a som rule, and then we’ll then we’ll get to specifically what the, what the rule is itself. So when I started out on the project, it wasn’t so much about. Calling a recession, like there are some really fancy technical ways that economists like look at the tea leaves and the data and either try to forecast a recession, which is incredibly hard, or even just say we’re in a recession in real time. So like that’s a useful endeavor. But what actually was behind the development of my recession indicator was more of a call to action. How do we develop policies that, that the Congress can put into place very quickly if a recession comes? So these kind of what are referred to as automatic stabilizers, so they’re decided upon ahead of time, but then you do need a trigger that says a recession is here. So now that enhance the unemployment benefits, send out the stimulus checks, whatever it is that we kind of have as our typical tools that are used in recessions, we could have those ready to go as kind of guardrails. Then like you, you turn the policy on. So that was really my emphasis was on how do we do better policy and recessions, get the support out quickly. ’cause that’s the best chance of kind of stabilizing the situation. And then it’s like, well it was in a, it was in a policy volume that they asked for, like a really concrete proposal. So if I’m gonna say an automatic stabilizer, I need to have a proposal for what a trigger could be. So that’s really where the som rule came. So I think it is important. It’s definitely important to me to, I always remember like what the kind of reason for it’s sure. Now that also guided what the indicator itself looks like. So again, it was gonna be in, in fiscal policy. It needs to be simple, it needs to be something that we track it and it needs to, I felt it was important that it capture the reason that we. Fight recessions, why there’s such a bad, uh, you know, outcome. And so it looks at the, the unemployment rate. I use the national unemployment rate, take a three month average. ’cause we wanna smooth out, like there’s bumps and wiggles in the data from month to month. So you kind of, you know, three month average. One way to smooth it out. So you take that series of three month averages, you look at the current value, you compare to the lowest value over the prior 12 months, if you’ve seen an increase of a half, a percentage point or more. Which is really pretty modest, but half a percentage point or more. Historically, we have been in the early months of a recession, so it’s not a forecast. It’s supposed to be like we’re in it. Let’s go. It’s an empirical pattern. It’s one that’s worked in the United States. It reflects kind of our labor market institutions, the way unemployment rate moves and recessions. It historically is the case that once you get past a certain threshold of increased unemployment rate, it tends to build on itself. And in a typical recession, we see increases of. Two, three or more percentage points in the unemployment rate. Uh, so that’s, that’s what the summer rule is. And in fact, it did trigger in the summer of 2024. At that time I had said like, look around, we are not in a recession. GP is still expanding. Job creation is still happening. We don’t see the other hallmarks of a recession. And pointed to the fact that we’d had a very disrupted labor market after the pandemic in particular. You know, there had been a lot of immigration at that point. The unemployment rate is the total number of unemployed. So people who don’t have a job but are actively looking for one out of the labor force, right? And so these people that have to either be employed or looking for jobs, and so we actually saw from the pandemic. Both with the pandemic and then later with the surge and now the reversal in immigration. We’ve seen a lot of movement in the, in the labor force, which makes unemployment rate a little tricky to interpret. And then I’d also argue, we saw early in the pandemic, the unemployment rate dropped very rapidly. We even had labor shortages. So in some ways unemployment rate rising and it has risen over. I mean, it continued to rise last year in 2025. A lot of that’s also normalization. We’d had a very low unemployment rate. So I think the, the pandemic recession has a lot of features that were very unusual. We’ll talk probably more about the labor market continued to be kind of unusual. So the, you know, the somal was not the only recession indicator to fall flat on its face in the cycle. Um, but I think it’s still a useful, useful guide and I, and. You know, even if it’s not a recession, the, the unemployment rate is a full percentage point above, its low in 2023. So, I mean, that, that could, that could be a reason for policymakers to respond, even if it’s not responding to a recession. Right. That was the first time that it, that triggered and, and actually didn’t. End up in a recession, right? There’s some back in the 1950s, earlier, but it’s, it’s the first time where there’ve been some false positives in the past or, or near false positives. Like in 2003. It was kind of close, uh, is like the unemployment rate rises a little bit and then it falls back down. What we saw after it triggered in 2024 is it stabilized. Then last year it continued to rise. So this the pattern that we’ve seen since the pandemic of rapid recovery dropping unemployment rate and then it’s like gradually rising and yet has risen a full percentage point that you go all the way back in the post World War II period. We don’t see anything that looks like that. So that is a very unusual. Paris. So something’s more is going on in the labor market than just our typical business cycle, boom, bust, recession type dynamics. So what is that? What is the thing that’s happening that’s unusual right now in the labor market? Right? So the thing that is driving the unemployment rate up, I think this is a good lesson, a reminder to all of us. It’s not about layoffs. The rate of layoffs in the United States is really quite low. You look at unemployment insurance claims, they’re also quite low. What’s been pushing the unemployment rate up over the last two and a half years has been a very low rate of hiring and, and it’s, and it is something that over time will at least gradually put upward pressure on the unemployment rate and frankly. Until hiring picks up and we really don’t have many signs of it. Even as we enter 2026 unemployment rate’s gonna probably keep drifting up ’cause we’re not keeping job creation’s, not keeping up with, you know, people coming into the, into the labor market and, and that what’s, I think the puzzle right now is that hiring has been very low. But what we’ve seen in terms of consumer spending, business investment, so the kind of the big pieces of GDP, they’ve really held up pretty well, so. Business. It’s not, again, not that recession of the customers have disappeared. And so we’re not hiring, or we may even be firing workers. The customers are there for the businesses, but they’re choosing in this environment not to add, uh, to their payrolls. And that’s slowly pushing up down point rate. Yeah. Um, you know, it, it’s interesting what you’re, you’re talking about, but essentially you’re, people aren’t getting fired. They’re just, when they retire or leave, they’re just not replacing those. Individuals, you know, makes me think a little bit about what’s going on in the big, you know, in the tech push with artificial intelligence and that kind of thing, and increased in efficiency. Certainly you see that in the larger companies like Amazon and all that, where they’re just becoming massively more productive and cutting expenses essentially by, you know, using tech. Do you think that this is sort of an early indication, potentially of that kind of movement? So it. It’s possible, but I think we’re at the very front end of AI disrupting the labor market. This low hiring rate that we’ve talked about. You see this across all kinds of industries, including ones that don’t show high levels of AI adoption, and frankly, a AI adoption is pretty low. I mean, there are some sectors like tech and increasingly finance and some professional services have higher adoption rates. Uh, but in terms of it being able to explain the low hiring. I think it’s pretty tough ’cause the low hiring is such a, such a broad based, um, phenomenon. Now, AI might be, I think, indirectly contributing in that one of, one of the hypotheses about why, um, businesses have been, uh, not hiring despite, you know, economic activity. Continuing to push ahead could be that there’s a lot of uncertainty. Now there is a long list that we could draw of, of factors that might be causing businesses to be uncertain and hesitant to add to their payrolls. Uh, a lot of times you talk about things with tariffs or, you know, economic policy, regulations changing, you know, so there’s a lot going on there. But it could also be, there’s a lot of uncertainty about what this technology means for the future. Maybe you don’t need to bring on more workers because your ability to kind of use and adapt this technologies coming online. And so like that could be part of it. I think there’s another piece, you know, we have a lot of discussion about ai, but I do think that there’s, there could be a, a technology angle to this that’s, that is. Not in the AI technologies, but maybe just some of the more basic kind of automation is again, right after, you know, the, the pandemic recession as we came out of a, you know, very rapid recovery, uh, there was, there was a lot of hiring or that, ’cause businesses had done a lot of firing and they needed to bring back workers really rapidly and we actually had a period of labor shortages. There were workers moving around a lot and there were, that also put a lot of pressure on some employers, particularly in service sector, to automate more ’cause they just couldn’t get the workers, so they needed to bring technology. Online to help, you know, fill the gap. And over time, you know, businesses though, they haven’t done as much hiring, they have been firing. So the workers, they have longer tenures, have more experience, they’re probably more productive. So maybe businesses can kind of, you know, get away with not doing more hiring. ’cause the people they have there can kind of keep up with it. Um, and they’ve done some more automation. I don’t think those are sustainable. I think we’re going to need to see hiring pickup in terms of, of staying with, um, you know, as expanding, uh, demand from customers. But I won’t pretend to know what AI means for the future of the labor force. Right. So like there could be, I think that’s a big conversation about we’re headed, where we’re headed. I think it’s probably a pretty small slice of explaining. Where we’re at right now. You know, it’s interesting because obviously there was a lot of concerns about rising inflation, and particularly in the context of, you know, tariffs and, and among those types of things that were, were, um, coming down the pipe. And as it turns out, inflation seems to be coming down. How do you explain that from where you sit? Because it, it, it seems sort of to contradict a lot of what, you know, many economists believe to be likely. So when thinking about the effects of tariffs on inflation and this, this idea that it didn’t end up being as much of a factors we had really feared, uh, you know, a year ago. I think there’s a few things to keep in mind. One, the announced tariffs, uh. Didn’t come to pass fully. Right? So there’s a big difference between some of the, the, the initial announcements, whether it was on Liberation Day, April 2nd, or the initial kind of retaliation tit for tat with China, where we ended up with some triple digit, uh, tariff numbers. Those didn’t end up being where we, we ended now tariff, the effect of tariff rate. Is much higher than it was before. Right. Uh, president Trump came into office for the second time, so like, I don’t wanna minimize the, the, the increase in tariffs and the US government collected about $200 billion last year in, in additional tariffs. But there is a, there’s a good bit of daylight between what was announced and where we actually ended up. Businesses also proved very capable of trying to avoid those tariffs and not in like a. Illegal kind of way of avoiding them, but, but using inventories like trying to get ahead of them. We know the tariffs are tariffs. There’s been some evidence that, that it’s businesses are gonna start passing on the tariff cost increase when it’s actually tied to the inventories that they’re putting out in front of customers. And for some of our goods, like say apparel or things that have long seasons or come from, you know, all across the world, it actually takes quite a bit of time from the inventories being what actually shows up in front of customers. So there’s been the ability to. Kind of get around the tariffs ’cause they were rolling in. And so do be smart in terms of your inventories. And then it just takes time for those inventories to be, you know, um, to come down. Mm-hmm. By, there’s been several studies at this place, at this point that, that demonstrate that the, the tariffs, the cost of the tariffs is coming into the us. So the, it’s always the importer that pays the tariff, like literally writes the check to the US government. But it’s possible that the foreign producer could say, reduce their prices on what they’re, you know, paying or what they’re asking to be paid for that, uh, imported good. And then that would be a way of the foreign producer sharing the cost of the tariff. But everything that we see from the M Court data suggests that a very small fraction, probably less than 10%. Of the total tariff burden is being born by, at least at this point, born by the foreign producers. So it’s coming into the us. It’s sitting with either US businesses that are importing the goods or have the goods at some point in their, you know, in their supply chains and, and with us customers, the consumers we have, we’ve seen. I think you can really look at the inflation data. You can see the goods prices, which often are kind of a drag on inflation that they did turn around. They’re, they’re putting upward pressure on inflation. It’s not massive. It doesn’t explain all of these, you know, 200 billion in tariff costs, but then it is, it’s sitting with businesses. The effects still, it’s still just not that long enough to really understand. You know what, what the implications. It’s possible. I, I think that’s true with any, with any big policy change. Like it doesn’t happen overnight. I think that’s one thing that a lot of, a lot of economic models that, like, they’re, they’re very sensitive, right? Like as soon as a policy change happens, the models will kind of tell us something pretty dramatic in terms of adjustments. But this last year was a reminder, like when there’s, when there’s a big cost, there’s gonna be a lot of attempts to adjust around it to try to minimize that cost and then. It takes time, like in the real world, like the interactions are much more complex. You know, inventory lags all of the, like, it takes time to move its way through. So I think we’re not done with the pass through. I think we’ll probably still see more come to consumers, but businesses could decide to bear that cost. They, they could, you know, with profit margins. I mean some of, some of the inflationary environment in the pandemic did allow. There were very broad base increases in prices. You did see some companies be profitable from that because it was, there was a, you know, some of the costs were more targeted, but the, you know, the, the price increases were broad. So it could be a time where businesses see that, you know, consumers are more price sensitive now than they were in 21, 20 21, 20 22, so they’re not passing as much on it. Could be that that’s part of where. Like the cost businesses are dealing with that cost by maybe doing less hiring as opposed to passing it on to consumers. Uh, you know, they could be taking a hit with their profits. They, you know, so like, it doesn’t have to go all the way through to consumers. There are different levers that can be pulled. I do think we’ll still see some pass through in the, in probably the first half of this year, and that’s assuming that our whole tariff regime. Sit still, right? It looks like once again we might be, uh, increasing those tariffs, but, um, so yeah, I think it’s just tracing, you know, the tariffs through the system is really complicated. And one last thing I’ll say about the tariffs is they’re not just tariffs on goods that go to consumers. These tariffs have been broad enough that we’re also taring imported goods that are used by our manufacturers used for our, by our businesses in their production. So then it can take a really long time for that to end up with the, you know, the end customer could be a business to start with, and then it moves its way down. So I think these are just, you know, the costs are real. We can see the tariffs have been collected, the costs are there. We can see in the import data, there haven’t been import price data, there haven’t been a lot of adjustments by the foreign suppliers. So then it’s just a question of, we have these costs. Where did the cost go? I believe the last GEP was 4.3% and, uh, inflation was around 2.6, 2.7, or at least core. You’ve obviously, uh, worked at the Fed. Um, give us a sense of the situation that the Fed is trying to figure out here. Like what do they do with these numbers and, you know, all of the issues that surround them. The work at the Fed, I mean, it, it’s laser focused on the, the response, the mandates that the Fed has. So with maximum employment and price stability and with maximum employment, that’s not something that can be easily defined. It’s not like it’s a particular unemployment rate, it’s not a particular payroll number. But I mean, broadly speaking, it’s, you know, do, are, you know, the people who wanna work, are they working? In such a way that it’s not putting pressure on inflation, right? Like labor shortages that end up with wage increases that just, you know, end up with inflation. Like that would be a situation where the Fed would actually want to kind of help restrain some of the. Uh, employment growth. And we, we saw that in this cycle. I mean, the Fed raised rates a lot in 2022 and 2023. Uh, so that’s the maximum employment on the stable prices. The Fed has set a target of the 2%, uh, year over year PCE inflation. So a little different than the CPI inflation, but very much related. And, and it’s one, I mean, that’s, that’s the goal, right? And it, uh. So it starts with those two pieces and, and what’s been, I think what’s been challenging in say the last year as the Fed was, you know, trying to figure out what it was gonna do with interest rates was the fact that it, there was pressure on both sides of the mandate. Mm-hmm. Um, and not necessarily the, well, I mean, inflation itself has, was above the 2%. It continues to be above the 2%. Target has been. Since 2021. Now the Fed’s policy doesn’t have a look back, but I mean, they do worry that the longer inflation stays closer to three than two businesses. Consumers are gonna start to kind of embed three into their actions, their expectations. Then you kind of get stuck there. So like that, that both, you know, they were missing on the inflation mandate and there were, there were concerns that the, that we might see inflation get stuck above the mandate and the way you dislodge it if it gets stuck. Could end up risking a recession, right? So the Fed doesn’t want that to happen. So that’s a real concern. But then on the employment side, you know, we started out talking about the small rule, the rising unemployment rate. We’ve seen the unemployment rate rising. And then last year in particular, it wasn’t just the unemployment rate rising, we saw job creation just really take a leg down. Um. Some of that probably is less immigration population aging, so less supply of workers, which isn’t something the Fed would react to. ’cause that, I mean, if you don’t have as many people that wanna work, you don’t need to create as many jobs. But the unemployment rate was rising, so it’s clear, like there just wasn’t, there wasn’t enough job creation to keep up with, um, the workers who were there, uh, to work. And, and there was a concern that this could, could spiral out. Those small increased unemployment rate that, that very low level of job creation. And frankly, if you look at, I mean the, I mean, we have multiple months and probably more after revisions of declines in payroll employment. Mm-hmm. Like if you looked at the labor market data, you’d be like, aren’t we in a recession or like on the edge of one? Again, that’s not where we’re at, but it, it certainly gave that, that risk. Things could be slowing down. And, and the, the last piece that was really important in the Fed’s decisions was where, where’s the federal funds rate? Where are the interest rate, the policy interest rate they control? And it was still relatively high. For, for recent history, right. Not in the long history of the Fed, but mm-hmm. And so, like the Fed had raised, they’d raised interest rates quite aggressively to fight the inflation in 2022. They’d very gradually lowered it. Some was taken out in 2023 because made some pro, made quite a bit of progress on inflation in, or in 2024, they lowered the rates in 2025, the 75 basis points of cuts that the Fed did. It was out of concern. Of the labor market unraveling a risk, not a, not saying, hey, the labor market is unraveling, but saying the risk that the downside risk to employment are larger and more worrisome than the upside risk to inflation. So this inflation getting stuck, is that still the case as a going into 2026 here? So, you know, even, even last year we saw, we listened to Fed officials, there’s quite a bit of disagreement. Because it was a tough situation to read. There are some Fed officials that were more focused on inflation, some that were more focused on the employment side. Uh, and it really was just a matter of kind of reading the economy and trying to figure out this, a very unusual situation, like where, where was this headed? What did the Fed need to do? In the end, the consensus on the Fed was to do the rate cuts, kind of front load them. They talked a lot about it as insurance. They’re taking out insurance against the labor market deteriorating. And I think with that approach, in all likelihood, and there’s been certainly signaling of this, that when they meet at the end of January, it’ll, they’re unlikely to move again. That this is, this will be an opportunity to hold steady, be patient the Fed has, has taken out their restriction. So they don’t have the higher rates, so they’ve pulled rates down. We also know that early this year there’s various kinds of fiscal support that are coming online or tax cuts to households and to businesses that should give a little extra lift, uh, to the economy. So I think it’s a period of the Fed waiting to see what the effects of their policy changes are, seeing what the effects of the fiscal policy with the expectation this will be enough to stabilize the labor market. Even help get it back on track and really what the Fed would like. I mean, we’ll see what they get, but they’d really like the next cut to be a good news cut. Like inflation. Oh look, it’s moving back down again. We’re making clear progress back to 2%. I think that’s probably gonna take maybe even till the middle of this year to build that case. A strong case for the disinflation. Mm-hmm. But that’s, that’s what they would, would like to do. But they’re gonna keep an eye on the labor market. But nothing we’ve seen in the most recent data suggests that they gotta get moving like that. There’s some, you know, real pressure building. Um, in fact, the labor market looks a little bit better probably than when they met in December and inflation. Showing some signs of progress, but it, it’s pretty bumpy in terms of, there’s a lot of noise in the data at the moment. You mentioned, um, the Fed’s mandate and you know, certainly that’s something, um, that, uh, you know, that, that we know the Fed looks at these unemployment numbers that look at inflation. I’m curious though, that there’s, you know, there is this push and pull with the treasury. In particular, you know, looking at the amount of, of, of, of bonds that need to be refinanced, that kind of thing. I mean, presumably that’s one of the reasons why the Trump administration is pushing so hard, uh, on the Fed to reduce, um, you know, to reduce rates so that you know, this sovereign debt can be refinanced at a, something a little bit more palatable. How much of that actually. I know it’s not supposed to play a part in the Federal Reserve’s actions, but in reality is there, is there that kind of, you know, thinking that, you know, they have to, they, they may try to play ball a little bit with the, with the situation, with the debt. Yeah. There, the, the Fed is not playing ball right now with the administration. Uh, but, but there have been, there have been times in our past. So during World War II, there was an explicit cooperation between the Fed and the Treasury. The Fed kept interest rates low. Both the federal funds rates, so the short term interest rates, they also did, uh, some purchases of longer term to help keep longer term rates down. Right. So I mean, the, the Fed really, they, their policy was oriented exactly on this objective, keeping the borrowing cost of the US government low because it was financing the war effort. So, so there have been times where the Fed has cooperated with treasury. Now, when they came out of World War ii. What happened is, you know, treasury wants to keep interest rates low. This is good for, you know, the economy, good for growth, but it was, it really was creating a lot of inflationary pressures and it took until the early 1950s for the Fed to kind of regain its kind of operational independence from treasury and then go back to pursuing, you know, inflation as a key goal. And then also in the late seventies and maximum employment was added as an explicit goal. So we’re in a place now where. It’s employment, it’s inflation, it, there was quite, um, I mean, president Trump and some other officials have been, you know, very open about saying rates should be low to help with the deficit, with funding the gov. So like, it’s, it’s been in the discussion in the air. But that’s not, that’s not a mandate that Congress has given the Fed. That’s not what they’re pursuing. It does, you know, but things can change at the Fed. We’re gonna see a change in leadership this year with a new Fed chair. Um, the Fed always, I mean, Congress created the Federal Reserve. It’s changed its abilities, its responsibilities over time. I don’t wanna say that we’ll never get back to a place where the Fed thinks about. Its effect on the deficit. I mean, they’re watching it, they know, right? They’re tracking all these aspects of the economy. But in terms of what’s driving the Fed’s decisions about what the, the federal funds rate should be, that’s not part of the calculus right now. Yeah. Um, you know, another, just another question is for clarity. You know, the, the, um, officially right now there’s, there’s no quantitative easing. However, there is. Uh, you know, I’ve been reading, uh, about even, I think even today, there was a, a fair amount of liquidity, uh, being injected in by the Fed. Can you, for people who don’t understand the mechanics of this and what the difference in terminology is, can you explain to us maybe what the difference is between quantitative easing and what’s being done right now? So just as for context, where quantitative easing even came from. So if we go back to the global financial crisis in 2008, the Federal Reserve, in response to that recession, pulled the federal funds rate all the way to zero. Cut rates to zero And as sure many of us remember that that recession was a very deep and long recession. So, and the unemployment rate was, you know, 10% and inflation was not a problem. So the, the Fed would want in that environment to do more to support the economy. But when the federal funds rate is at zero, that’s, its, that has been its primary tool. Well, that’s, that’s. Stepped out. So then as a question of, well, what else could we do to help support the economy? And, and there, there were. Different possibilities. Uh, some European central banks looked at, you know, they actually did negative interest rates or tried to pull their policy rates, and that’s not what the US did. What was done was to do purchases of, uh, treasuries. Uh, there’s also been purchases of mortgage backed securities, and this is where the Fed is. I mean, and, and they’re creating reserves. So the fed, I guess, secretary, uh. Treasury doesn’t refer to it as magic money. Um, you know, they create reserves and then they’re going out and they’re buying tr so they’re pushing that liquidity, that demand into markets. And if you’re, if there’s a lot more demand for treasuries, well, the price of the treasuries will go up. The yield comes down. Interest rates go down. Yep. Interest rates go down. So they. They were, the Fed wanted to support the economy more. That was the tool that they used to do it. So when, when the Fed talks about quantitative easing, it’s not just the tool, the asset purchases, it’s also the intent, right? They wouldn’t do quantitative easing right now. ’cause if the Fed thought they really need to stimulate the economy more, they’ve still got like. More than three percentage points they could cut from the federal funds rate. Like if the issue were right now, we need to like get the economy going, they’re gonna like cut the funds rate and do it that way. They wouldn’t be pur like purchasing assets, purchasing treasuries to do that. But what what happened is between the global financial crisis, the Great recession, so all the asset purchases done then. There was some, some runoff of the balance sheet, but then again, in the pandemic there were a lot of asset purchases. Uh, the Fed has a really big balance sheet, and it has, uh, it, it kind of changes the way that the Fed can even just move around the federal funds rate. Like, I don’t wanna get too much into the, the technicals, but it’s, it’s just, you know, when the Fed says, well, we wanna lower the, the funds rate to 3.5%. In the old days, they could kind of do, you know, with the bank reserves and they could like, make these small purchases and it would, it would make that stick. Now with, there’s, uh, banks have a lot of reserves, so they’re not as responsive. And so just to kind of, there’s like the, the technical, the tools, the Fed has to just make it happen. In terms of operationally, it means that they have to do some purchases now and then they call their, I mean the new name they have for these are reserve management. Purchases. So it’s really about operations. It’s not about, but it does mean they’re purchasing assets. So if you’re just focused on like the Fed’s purchasing assets, they’re putting liquidity into the system. Yes, they are doing that, but it’s not with the intent to kind of push the economy to run harder. It’s just enough liquidity to keep. The federal funds rate stable at the level that they wanted to be at, to just make sure that all these operations are short in the very short term lending markets amongst banks, that it’s all kind of working as mm-hmm. As it should be. So it’s more about operations and it’s about stimulus policy. Right. A lot of our, um, a lot of our listeners are real estate owners, investors, and they’re, you know, they think about, um. Mortgage rates and that kind of thing. There was recently a, a pretty significant, well, I don’t know how significant it really was. I think it was about, was it maybe $250 billion worth of mortgage backed securities purchased by Fannie Mae. Um, that ca can you talk about the purpose of that and really the, you know, what kind of effect that would actually, we could actually expect from that. It’s certainly been, I mean it’s, it is clear. You know, we talked about one reason that the administration would want interest rates down. It’d be like financing the deficit. Right. Another reason that very much pulls into kind of the affordability debate is we want interest rates lower, one of them lower for consumers. Now the White House has put a lot of pressure on the Fed for them to lower rates even faster than they have. Has not played ball with that. But then the Fed has lowered its rates. The Feds rates are very short term rates, and the federal funds rate is like an overnight rate with between banks. Right. So it, and it has an effect on, you know. Credit card rates, short term rates, but it’s not one, it, it has an effect, but it’s really not like driving necessarily 30 year mortgage rates or you know, some of the longer term rates. There’s a lot of other factors that go into that, and so in this kind of, you know, push for lower mortgage rates. Pushing on the Fed is not the only lever to pull, right? The administration has other levers that they could potentially pull, um, in trying to influence mortgage rates. Now, there, I’d argue the administration’s tools here, like the, the $200 billion, Fannie and Freddie purchase that you mentioned. That really is about trying to reduce the spread. Between mortgages and treasuries. So in some ways it sounds similar, like, oh, fed and Franny, which are, you know, GSEs. So part, part of the, you know, government right now, at least they were privatized during the global financial crisis. You think, oh, they’re going out and purchasing this Sounds a lot like the Fed going out and purchasing. There are there, there’s some parallels, but we need to remember, Fannie and Freddie don’t create money. The Fed, when they start, when they start the process of their quantitative easing, they’re creating reserves like they’re actually creating liquidity and money supply. Fannie and Freddie have authorization to be able to make these purchases, but they’re not like the fed. They’re not creating reserves, but they can, so I don’t wanna think about them like bringing down the whole set of interest rates, but they can affect this spread between mortgages and say treasuries. Right? And so, because again, if you’re, if the. If the GSEs are going out, they’re purchasing mortgage backed securities, well that’s increasing demand for those, and that can push down the rates, that can like squeeze that spread. And, and while the announcement has been made, you know, I mean they’re, they’re in the early stages of putting that in place, but we even on the announcements, saw a response in financial markets and you’re seeing some movement down, uh, in mortgage rates now. It was. Pretty modest, right? And, and 200 billion while, you know, not nothing, uh, really pales in comparison to like the scale of say, the quantitative easing that the Fed did. Um, and there are probably other, but the, you know, the administration’s not done. It doesn’t necessarily have to be that Fannie and Freddie do more purchases. The the spread between mortgage rates and treasuries is pretty substantial. There’s other places where, you know, the fees that go into getting a mortgage are quite a bit larger than they were before the, the global financial crisis. So maybe they go in and try to chip away at the fees and, you know, so there’s, there’s different levers. And I fully expect, and I think we’re gonna get some announcements here again soon on the White Houses. Housing affordability agenda. So there may be other, other ways that they’re trying to, uh, influence, uh, the mortgage spreads. But that’s, that’s what that is all about. And it, it should have, and it looks like, you know, it’s having some effect in terms of bringing rates down, but it likely, it’d be modest, like in the 10 basis points, maybe 20 if they ramp up the program some. But like, it, you know, it’s, it, it, you know, every, every bit counts. But this is not a. Uh, this won’t be enough to, you know, move rates down, dramatic mortgage rates down dramatically, uh, when you, when you look at the economy. Um, and I, I, I think just, you know, one last question. I mean, I just in terms of, you know, the people listening to this are. They’re, they’re people, you know, with jobs and who are trying to invest their money, and they’re trying to, you know, build long-term wealth, but they’re, you know, everybody’s worried about what’s happening with the economy. What, what, what do you think, like, just as, um, um, you know, perspective for people to understand or try to have some framework for how to look at what’s going on in the economy. How they should judge it. Like what would you suggest, like just for mom and pop investors trying to, what is happening with the economy? I’m not an economist. What, what are the, what are the things that you think they should consider studying up on, looking into a little bit? One challenge for a lot of investors, I mean, frankly, it’s, it’s been a challenge that I try to deal with too. Uh, we’re, we’re in an environment where there’s just. There’s so much news coming out of DC uh, with the White House and policies and the Fed, and you know, I mean, like, there’s just, there’s a lot. The headlines are big. And like I talked about with the tariffs, we had like really big tariff announcements. The really scary numbers were, and then it like dialed back and then we pushed through it and it’s like, and it’s this remembering that, um. There’s always a tendency to have this idea that the, the president really runs the economy. I mean, that’s not just about this administration. That’s like a longstanding, you know, the president gets, uh, blame or credit for the economy when really, right. Like we have a over 33, $30 trillion economy, hundreds of millions of workers, tens of millions of businesses. Like this is not about one administration. And so we always need to be careful about. Putting too much weight on the policies coming out of dc. Uh, and you know, last year if you really just listened to all the, you know, we’re cutting immigration, we’re raising tariffs, we’re doing, you know, all, there’s a lot of uncertainty in Doge. Well then you might have missed, like, there’s a bunch of AI investment happening and we’ve got a lot of growth in the economy and while consumers are still pretty resilient, so you, it’s kind of like. Tuning down the volume, some coming out of Washington, especially the like every twist and turn. Uh, and then kind of focusing in on the fundamentals. I will say, you know, you don’t wanna turn down DC too far because we, we do have some like big picture events that could play out over many years. Right. So kind of keeping an eye on it, but for the long game. As opposed to reacting to every twist and turn, every policy announcement, because a lot of this clearly is more of a negotiation than it is like, we’re gonna actually do this. So, you know, as investors, you don’t wanna get whipped around by the latest headline, but you also can’t put your head in the sand. Like you gotta kind of try and find a way to pull the signal out of the noise. And it is really. It’s really hard. Yeah. Like this has been a challenging time and the, the US economy’s been doing things that are not typical. We talked about some of the things with the labor market and we are running some policy experiments that haven’t been run in a long time, so things could change pretty dramatically. But I think it’s just trying to absorb the information, not get too wound up about it, but like also keep an eye on like what’s good for long-term growth. Yeah. Because it’s good for long-term productivity. Thank you so much Dr. Sahm. It’s uh, it’s been a pleasure talking to you on, uh, wealth Formula Podcast today. Great. Thank you so much. You make a lot of money but are still worried about retirement. Maybe you didn’t start earning until your thirties. Now you’re trying to catch up. Meanwhile, you’ve got a mortgage, a private school to pay for, and you feel like you’re getting further and further behind. Now, good news, if you need to catch up on retirement, check out a program put out by some of the oldest and most prestigious life insurance companies in the world. It’s called Wealth Accelerator, and it can help you amplify your returns quickly, protect your money from creditors, and provide financial protection to your family if something happens to you. The concept. Here are used by some of the wealthiest families in the world, and there’s no reason why they can’t be used by you. Check it out for yourself by going to wealthformulabanking.com. Welcome back to the show everyone. Hope you enjoyed it. It was Claudia Sahm. She is, uh, she’s a very, very smart lady. And, uh, just a reminder, if you have not done so, uh, I, I don’t frequently ask to do, do this, but, uh, make sure you give the show. Five stars and a positive review because that’s how we’re getting, you know, really high quality people like Claudia on the show, I’ve been around for a long time. It helps that the show is, you know, like over a decade old and all that stuff too. But, uh, anything you can do to support would be very helpful. And also one more reminder, uh, if you have not done so and you weren’t a credit investor, make sure you sign up for that investor club. At Wealth formula.com. That’s it for me. This week on Wealth Formula Podcast. This is about Joffrey signing out. If you wanna learn more, you can now get free access to our in-depth personal finance course featuring industry leaders like Tom Wheelwright and Ken m. Visit wealthformularoadmap.com.

One of the biggest risks people face when trying to understand the economy, investing, or personal finance isn't a lack of information. It's the illusion of being informed—while quietly limiting the sources that shape your thinking. We live in a world where information is everywhere. Podcasts, X threads, YouTube clips, newsletters, reels. But abundance doesn't equal diversity. In fact, the algorithms behind social media are designed to do the opposite: they show you more of what you already agree with. Over time, your worldview narrows—not because you chose it to, but because it was curated for you. I noticed this years ago when I started listening to alternative asset podcasts. At first, it felt refreshing—new ideas, new language, new opportunities outside the mainstream. But after a while, something became obvious. Many of these shows were operating inside an echo chamber. Different hosts. Same conclusions. Same narratives. Same villains. Same heroes. It was as if they were all listening to one another and simply regurgitating the same ideas, reinforcing them in a closed loop until they felt like truth. And to be fair—knowing many of these hosts personally—that's often the business model. Audience reinforcement is rewarded. Dissent is not. Ever since then, I've made a conscious effort to study people I don't naturally agree with. Not because I want to adopt their views—but because I want to stress-test my own. This matters more now than ever because social media accelerates groupthink at scale. When an idea gains traction online, disagreement quickly becomes social friction. It's easier to conform, retweet, and nod along than to pause and ask, “What if this is wrong?” I once had a conversation with Robert Kiyosaki where he told me he actually gets worried when everyone in the room agrees about the economy. When viewpoints converge too neatly, it's usually a sign that critical thinking has been replaced by consensus comfort—and that's exactly where blindsides are born. If your goal is to get closer to the truth, you must seek out opinions that challenge your own. That includes people you disagree with—especially people you disagree with. Truth doesn't emerge from unanimity. It emerges from tension. And that applies to me as well. Daon't let me—or anyone else—be your sole source of information. No matter how much you trust someone, outsourcing your thinking is always a risk. I can tell you from personal experience that in economics and personal finance, narrow perspectives lead to surprises you only recognize in hindsight. Those are the moments people regret most—not because they lacked intelligence, but because they lacked perspective. Financial education is critical. But a real curriculum doesn't just confirm what you already believe. It exposes you to competing frameworks, conflicting data, and uncomfortable questions—and forces you to think for yourself. That's how you build conviction that actually holds up when the world changes. This week's episode of Wealth Formula Podcast examines this groupthink problem on a broader scale throughout society with an author who wrote a bestseller on our inherent appetite for misinformation. It's a fascinating conversation that will surely get you thinking about the way you view the world. Transcript Disclaimer: This transcript was generated by AI and may not be 100% accurate. If you notice any errors or corrections, please email us at phil@wealthformula.com.  You can imagine people who are conflict avoidant, probably not so likely to post online, as opposed to people who are conflict approaching who love a fight, right? If that’s, if those are the folks who are more likely to post, that’s gonna shape our information space in really, really important ways. Welcome everybody. This is Buck Joffrey with the Wealth Formula Podcast. Coming to you from Montecito, California today. Uh, wanna remind you before we begin, there is a website associated with this podcast called wealthformula.com. That’s where you go if you wanna get more involved with, uh, the show, with the community, uh, specifically, um, if you are interested. There is a sign up there for something called investor club, which if you aren’t a credit investor, you sign up basically, uh, you, uh, get onboarded and then you can see potential deal flow that’s not available to the public. And, uh, lots of things going on in there. Real estate, we’ve had stuff in the aircraft spaced, um, interesting stuff. You should check it out for sure. If you are, uh, enter credit investor. And again, that is wealthformula.com. Just click on investor Club. Now today, let’s talk a little bit of, you know, just let’s talk a little bit about one of the biggest risks that people face when trying to understand the economy of investing personal finance. It’s not lack of information, right? These days, there’s an enormous amount of information. It’s just the illusion of being informed while quietly limiting the sources that shape your thinking in the first place. So we live in this world. I live in this world too, where information is everywhere. You got podcasts, you got X, you got YouTube newsletters, reels, random emails. Abundance of information doesn’t really equal diversity. In fact, the algorithms behind social media are designed to do the opposite. They just show you more of what you already agree with, and that is a little bit of a problem because over time your worldview really starts to narrow. And not because you chose to narrow it necessarily, but because it was curated for you. You know, I noticed this myself, uh, several years ago when I started listening to podcasts like my own. Even before I started my podcast. And what happens is that you get, initially you get kind of interested ’cause the stuff resonates with you. You get some ideas, you get new language, new opportunities outside the mainstream. But after a while you start to realize, or I start to realize that, you know, these shows were sort of operating inside of an echo chamber. They’re saying the same thing, different house, same conclusions, same narratives, villain. Same heroes, you know, it was as, again, it was as if they were all listening to one another and, and simply regurgitating the same ideas and reinforcing them, uh, in a, in a closed loop. Um, and when you do that, it starts to feel like truth. And to be fair, knowing many of these hosts personally, that is kind of the business model. You know, audience reinforcement is rewarded, descent is not so ever since then. You know, I’ve actually made a conscious effort to study people. I don’t, uh, naturally agree with. I actually don’t listen to any other personal finance podcasts, uh, that are sort of in this alternative space because I already know kind of what our narratives are. I wanna know what others think. I wanna, uh, I, it’s not necessarily that I’m looking to adopt their views, but because I wanna kind of, you know, challenge my own and this matters more now than ever. Again, because of social media. How that accelerates group think at scale. You know, when an idea gains traction online, um, you know, disagreement quickly becomes social friction. Now I think the thing to do is, you know, always be questioning yourself and asking the question really, what if I’m wrong? What if this narrative is wrong? And it reminds me actually once, uh, you know, I’ve had a chance to spend a little time with Robert Kiyosaki. Period, uh, different, different times, and I still. Kind of consider him a mentor. And I remember being at a table with him, a bunch of people talking about, you know, where the, where the economy was, what’s going on. And he looked at me and he says, this is what gets me nervous. I said, what, what gets you nervous? And he says, everyone here, everyone here, even people who normally disagree with one another, are agreeing with each other. Uh, the point is that when some of these, you know, viewpoints converge too neatly. Uh, it’s usually a sign, uh, that, you know, that critical thinking has kind of been replaced, and that’s exactly where you start to get blindside and where, you know, there’s a danger there that there’s something that no one’s, no one else has really even mentioning anymore. So if your goal is to get closer to the truth, you actually have to seek out opinions that challenge your own, and that includes. People you disagree with, especially people you disagree with. Because you know, truth doesn’t really emerge from unanimous thought. It emerges from sort of that tension and challenging, and that applies to me as well. You know, if I’m the only personal finance podcast you listen to, you probably shouldn’t be because I have, you know, made my own conclusions based on what I’m thinking and what I’m listening to. I try to get people. Um, you know, from different spaces talking about stuff, but the reality is that, you know, everyone’s biased. I’m biased too. So, um, you know, I can tell you from personal experience, uh, that in economics and in personal finance, the problem is that when you have these narrow perspectives, um, they often lead to. To prizes. Uh, you can’t, you know, they only recognize in hindsight, and those, uh, those are the moments that most people, I think, regret more than anything. Not because they lacked intelligence necessarily, but they lacked perspective, right? Listen, financial education is critical and we, we know that that’s the point of doing the show in the first place, but, you know, any real curriculum is, isn’t there, just to confirm what you already believe. I, I, if you, it should expose some competing frameworks. And, you know, different questions or different takes on things and, and that’s how you know, if you listen to those and you listen to those arguments, that’s how you can really build conviction that you can stand behind. And even if you’re wrong, you say, yeah, you know, I heard the other argument too. I didn’t buy it, but I guess I was wrong. Believe me, I’ve been wrong, uh, more than once myself. So the reason I bring that all up is because this week’s, uh, episode of Wealth Formula podcast really examines. Greater than just the idea of, you know, personal finance and macro economics and that type of thinking, but a greater problem, which is group think in general on a broader scale throughout society. And my, uh, my guest is a, a woman who wrote a best seller on this topic. It’s fascinating stuff. I think it’ll get you think. Make sure to listen in and we’ll have that interview right after these messages. Wealth Formula banking is an ingenious concept powered by whole life insurance, but instead of acting just as a safety net, the strategy supercharges your investments. First, you create a personal financial reservoir that grows at a compounding interest rate much higher than any bank savings account. As your money accumulates, you borrow from your own. Bank to invest in other cash flowing investments. Here’s the key. Even though you’ve borrowed money at a simple interest rate, your insurance company keeps paying you compound interest on that money even though you’ve borrowed it. At result, you make money in two places at the same time. That’s why your investments get supercharged. This isn’t a new technique. It’s a refined strategy used by some of the wealthiest families in history, and it uses century old rock solid insurance companies as its backbone. Turbocharge your investments. Visit Wealth formula banking.com. Again, that’s wealthformulabanking.com. Welcome back to the show everyone. Uh, today my guest on Wealth Formula podcast is Professor Dana Young, who’s a professor of communication and political science at the University of Delaware, where her research explores how media psychology and identity shape belief systems she’s the author of Wrong, how media politics and Identity drive our appetite for misinformation and examines why people clinging to false narratives, and how understanding identity can improve persuasion. Our work helps decode the emotional and cognitive forces behind how we process risk, truth, and decision making. Welcome, professor Young. Great. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks for that intro. Someone has done their homework. I like that. Well, I try to, uh, well, let’s start with this. You know, one of the central arguments, uh, that you have is that people often believe things, not because they’re true, but because those beliefs serve as an identity function. Interesting concept, which I can kind of see in, uh, when you watch TV these days, can you, can you talk a little bit about that? Sure. And, and realize this is not happening at a conscious level. This isn’t something that we are thinking about. We’re not thinking, I wanna believe things that are untrue, but make me feel like I’m a part of my team. It doesn’t work that way. It is the, the truth, value of the things that we perceive is contingent on how those beliefs serve our team. Mm-hmm. So if there are things that our team believes. Those are the things that sort of historically, based on evolutionary psychology, those are the belief systems that would’ve made us probably really good members of our, of our tribe. Mm-hmm. That would’ve, um, if we had embraced those beliefs that would have. Give an indication to the shared members of our team that we are a good team member and therefore they should protect us. They should protect me, I will protect them. There’s a reciprocity there. So that belief sharing with our teammates is something that historically has served us well. And when it comes to survival, we really prioritize our social motivations above all else, because that is such a huge predictor of what allows us to survive and thrive. Is being a part of a community. And so, yeah. So the empirical validity of those claims is a little bit beside the point. The obvious, uh, the, the things that I think about there, I guess the, the sort of analogy there is like, you know, being a a, like I’m a big football fan, right? So I’ve been a big fan of the Minnesota Vikings for my entire life, although I’ve not lived there in from, you know, three quarters of my life. I grew up as a kid and that was my team. People come in, right? People go out. They’re people who, you know, were never there at the beginning, but I still root for them. Yeah. Yeah. And I still believe in them. And so, yeah, it, it reminds me of the sort of a, uh, you know, this tribal thing you’re talking about. The other place you see it, uh, is, is in politics. Uh, you know, when I, when I think about like, the way the parties have changed without getting political at all here. The, the, there’s some very, very significant changes that have happened in the ideologies, uh, or maybe not in the ideologies, but in the actuality of these parties and what they believe. They’ve changed so much in the last 30 or 40 years, yet the same people believed, uh, or identify as those party members. Is that kind of what you’re getting at? Yes, and, and because I’m a political scientist and political communication scholar, a lot of my interest in this area was born out of my concerns about our political, the political moment that we’re in, and how we really lack. A shared reality that’s necessary for democratic governance. Um, we, and we are seeing that literally there are dozens of examples every single day of different perceptions of reality across the left and the right. And so, so that was sort of why I tried to understand this, um, in the first place. But the. What you can glean from these theoretical dynamics, um, extend far beyond politics, right? To, as you were saying, and everything from economics to health, to the environment. Um, but because the shift that I think has been most impactful in this area regarding political identity is that in the United States, the. How the parties, what the parties are made up of, who the parties are made up of has changed dramatically over the last half century. And so rather than being these sort of loose coalitions of interest groups that would kind of come together and perhaps share a platform on specific policies, the way that the parties have shifted, especially sort of after the Civil Rights Movement made it that. Individuals began to identify with political parties based on like fundamental characteristics of who they are. Things like race, religion, geography, and, and fundamental aspects of culture. And so you have two political parties that actually look very different from one another in their racial and ethnic and religious and geographic sort of composition that is not good for democracy. Because we actually do not want our political parties to map onto such primal aspects of identity. ’cause it creates sectarianism and opens the door for dehumanization and violence, all kinds of bad stuff. But it also really tends to fuel some of these identity-based processes that we’re talking about because when you look around and everyone on your, in your political party. Lives like you do. They look like you do they worship like you do? They have the same hobbies as you. They drive the same kind of car. You know, those kinds of things. Like there’s a lot of that overlap that really makes your political identity take on a life of its own, and that life is increasingly. Um, unrelated to policy and more about kind of culture and aesthetics. So all of these caricatures that we think about of the left and the right, the, there’s. Stereotypes for a reason. They exist for a reason and they are so exaggerated through as a result of this political party shift over time. And, um, uh, as I talk about in the book, these differences are also exploited by our media environment. It’s really good for targeting and target marketing to have these kinds of divisions, uh, not great for democracy. Um, but they, these identities become further exacerbated. The more media we consume that tends to play into these identities. Yeah. It, it’s interesting to me, I think sometimes when you, when you think about what people believe mm-hmm. And then, you know, and then. Identifying those beliefs with like a, a political party or something like that. It’s interesting to think of the actual identification of the party coming first. Yeah. And then the beliefs following. Based on the identification. So that’s almost like religion, right? Exactly. Exactly. Right. And that’s a lot of the, the metaphors that we’ve been drawing from in political science. A lot of political scientists have been writing about this, really drawing upon the sociology of religiosity and how it operates because it, it, you’ll notice there’s another similarity too, that people will. Have this large identity as like a Catholic, right? Like I was raised Catholic. It’s, it’s part of who I am. Now. Do I believe everything that they say at church? No, but my identity as a Catholic is still very big. I, I, I will let it drive certain things, but I’m gonna write off other things as like. Not as important as my overarching identity. In the same way that we will find people who have a Democrat or Republican identity, and they live like a Democrat. They live like a Republican. However, when it comes to their actual policy positions. They don’t necessarily agree with their party platform. And that actually is where I get a little more optimistic because even though these caricatures seem so distinct when you drill down to actual policy positions, Americans have a lot in common. Those divides are not as giant as we think they are. I’m curious in terms of understanding the United States versus other countries, um, we, we seem to have a certain polarity which. It’s relatively new. I would say that, you know, even compared to, um, being a kid in, in the eighties, um, feeling like, you know, there was these two parties, but they seemed to get along pretty well. Mm-hmm. And for the most part, they were both kind of near the center. Yeah. And, um, but there’s this, there’s a much bigger division now. Um. What, I guess what drives the, the changes and when you look at different countries, like if you can compare and contrast like Sure. Are there certain specific variables Yes. That about our culture that that makes us who we are. Yes. Yeah. So that first question, um, I, I think that what’s really important is that when you think about how our political parties used to operate, um, in the aftermath of the Civil War, the two parties. We’re kind of in agreement when it came to racial issues in a way that was not good for African Americans in this country. Once the great migration happened and you had blacks from, from former slave states moving north and west, there was real pressure on leaders in those cities to advance or civil rights. Platforms, civil rights legislation, and to advance the rights of African Americans. That really put pressure on the parties in such a way that then it was the Democratic Party who became the party of championing civil rights. Then there was a response from the Republican party that was framed in terms, right, in terms of. State’s rights. That really drove the sorting of different kinds of people into the parties. It’s also fascinating to look at how religiosity and religion. Play a role here because during this very moment under the Nixon administration, there were efforts to revoke the tax exempt status of certain Christian schools that were sort of defacto segregated schools that were in violation of the policy at the time, which was to integrate those, the school system well. Those Christian parents were very unhappy with this, you know, revoking their tax exempt status. And there was a man named Paul Wyrick who came in and said, you know what, this is a moment to really bring together these two issues regarding race and religion. And he mobilized and created a grassroots movement out of this effort to sort of like protect our schools. And that actually became the conservative group, the Heritage Foundation. So that, that bringing together sort of the, the project of evangelical Christianity with this sort of move in opposition to integration that has a long history in our country. To your second piece though, about why the United States is, is. Special. Um, one, we have our, our history of slavery is not fundamentally unique, right? There are many countries that also practice slavery. I think the role that slavery already p played in the founding of our nation was important to keep in mind in terms of how the, the issue of race played into these shifts across political parties. And two, probably the biggest thing of all is that we have a. Two party system in countries that are dealing with some of these same pressures related to race and ethnicity, immigration, right? Where you see some of this polarization happening on ideology and a lot of those places they have multi-party systems. Which play a real amazing role at buffering some of these dynamics. So it’s not black or white, yes or no left, left or right. Uh, so we are uniquely positioned to have a hell of a time with polarization. When I, um, uh, I, you already sort of referenced, um, media. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, like when you think about polarization or you think about like. Re um, sort of constantly, um, emphasizing the things that you already suggest that you believe, uh, social media in particular is, I mean, is just pounding away at that, right? Yeah. I mean, sure. I just think about like my own feed, the things that I Yeah. You know, respond to or the things that I, you know, show affirmative, uh, reactions to the next thing. You know, like on x, you know, on Twitter, which I’ve been in. You know, doing more of, that’s all I get. Right? Sure. And it’s interesting because the next thing you know, you feel like. Everybody agrees with you. Sure, sure. And you’re like, oh, this is, this is amazing. I’m so Right. Right. No one has, right. No one believes the opposite of me. Right. Yeah. And it feels amazing. What role is that playing? Uh, I guess in, in your view? Social media dynamics are, are really fascinating because let’s, let’s realize, talk for a second about why it is that a lot of the content that we’re exposed to on social media is so divisive and identity evoking. Um. The reason that that happens is because the algorithms really just want us to be more and more engaged, obviously, because the only way that they’re able to, to micro target us with ads, et cetera, is by making use of the data points, the breadcrumbs that we have left behind. The only time that we leave those data points that we leave those breadcrumbs is when we do things. So if we’re just lurkers, we are not serving them at all. If we’re just hanging out looking at stuff, if we are actively liking or doing an angry thing, or writing or sharing, that’s what they need. So the algorithm is going to prioritize the content that is sort of outrage inducing, especially because negative emotions are exceptionally sticky. And there’s been some amazing work by um, uh, Jay Van Beil and his team who studied the sort of virality of different kinds of content online. And they found that the kind of content that is especially suited to virality is content that is both moral. Emotional that makes claims about what ought to be and what ought not to be, but is also like really emotionally and effectively evocative. And the kinds of content that tends to check those boxes is the content that is identity activated. Us versus them. They are doing this awful thing to us. Our way of life is under threat. Um, they are the bad guys. We are the good guys. So that’s how that happens, right? So that’s the kind of content that tends to be privileged across these platforms. That’s a piece of the puzzle. Another piece of the puzzle is that the kinds of people who tend to produce the most content online. Are weird, uh, as someone who posts online, uh, I, I just offended myself, but that’s fine. Um, the people who post a lot online tend to be more ideologically extreme. They also tend to have certain kinds of personality traits that maybe aren’t great is some of my work is looking at the, the trait of conflict orientation. You can imagine people who are conflict avoidant. Probably not so likely to post online as opposed to people who are conflict approaching who love a fight, right? If that’s, if those are the folks who are more likely to post, that’s gonna shape our information space in really, really important ways. Well then you get responses that are much more aggressive too, right? Like sure. In either direction. Sure. Something that’s kind of lukewarm. No one really cares to respond to it. Right. That’s exactly right. And then, and then those, those particular posts are rewarded by the media companies themselves because they’re getting all sorts of attention rising the top and those influencers who getting paid for that. So yeah, I mean, that’s the thing that really, that’s where I, I, I get to the point sometimes with this work where I, I’ve, I do feel a bit demoralized because I don’t necessarily see. Where there are really empowered agents to who can work within the system, we have to try to dismantle the incentive structure. So you know, if there are entrepreneurs out there who can think about ways to incentivize different kinds of content, I applaud that kind of development there. There are some, of course, who, who do the sort of, um. Positivity posts, you know, posts for good and viral videos about people help helping other people, and there is some indication that those also, they’re people love those. Those do go viral, but they don’t have the immediacy of the outrage, I guess, that when you think about, you know. The implications of this is really just, you know, I guess polarization, maybe some misinformation. Even misinformation is difficult because Sure. You don’t even actually know what is real information anymore. You don’t have like, sure. You know, when I was a, again, going back to being a kid in the eighties, it’s like you had one set of. Set of facts, you know? That’s right. But now that’s, there’s lots of different sets of facts, and in reality it’s hard to know what’s real. You just, you know, you just, you, you believe something and the next thing you know, something comes out and it, boy, that wasn’t real at all. Um, yeah. And, and let’s just, I’ll pause you for a second because, you know, as someone who studies misinformation, I, I have been through quite a journey with how I’ve thought about digital technologies, right? Yeah. Whereas. When I first started in this field 20, 25 years ago, I really lamented the fact that there were these voices on high at the news organizations who got to gatekeeper. They were the ones who decided what was true and what was not. And because of the way that they produced the news, that tended to reinforce certain kinds of official narratives. You know, there were times when conspiracies were exposed later on, when we learned that Wow. They did not tell us the truth, right? So early on I thought, oh wow, digital technologies are gonna be revolutionary, citizen journalists and iPhones. Mm-hmm. And in 2011, we saw the Arab Spring and we watched all these, these, you know, dictatorships. Topple. And then we saw the real tide shift with misinformation, with and disinformation deliberate efforts to exploit those. The lack of gatekeepers to exploit the, the lack of professional, quote unquote truth tellers, and really just make hay of our information space. And now sometimes it’s amazing, right? Because sometimes. The official account is not true, and other times the official account not only is true, but belief in the official account is necessary for us to sort of make progress as a society, right? So. The trouble is we don’t know which time is which. Well, well that, that’s, that’s what I was gonna say. I mean, I, I used to actually kind of in my own rein, have this narrative that, you know, certain sources were true and certain not, but even, yeah. You know, even after, you know, things that happened during COVID, for example. Yeah. Um, um, you know, the Wuhan Laboratories and, and things like that, that, you know, everybody looked at as a. A conspiracy theory and all this stuff, right? A tinfoil hat theory, a tinfoil hat, and you brought it up and you were crazy and everybody, you know, and, and the next thing you know, that’s the truth. That’s what happened. Yeah. So it, I think you’d even take people, um, it, it makes people who, uh, believe in the system, not believe in the system anymore. And, and I think that’s kind of where a lot of people are headed. That’s where the huge danger is. Yeah. And, and I think one area of research that is so. That is empowering and is hopeful. I have a, a doctoral student who is doing her dissertation on this. It’s a, it’s a concept called intellectual humility, which is just the extent to which we acknowledge that our beliefs and our perceptions of the world could be wrong. And what happens is when you operate in an intellectually humble way when you have beliefs, but you also are open to the fact that new information could come in at any moment, that could tell you that the things that you thought were true are not true. When you live that way, you tend to. Be closer to empirical truth than the people who are intellectually arrogant because the people who are intellectually arrogant, they’re so sure they’re right and they’re never looking to update their views. Yeah. You know, curiously on that too, like what, what does a research show about like highly educated or quote unquote intelligent people? Are they just as vulnerable? Are they more vulnerable? Because of this. And you know, in some ways I would think they’re almost more vulnerable. Yeah. And, and I think that it depends. So when we look at individual level factors and how they interact with susceptibility to MIS and disinformation, all of these different, so there’ll be psychological traits that interact with education level, that interact with what kinds of things you then are exposed to. So it is complicated. It’s complicated. So it tends to be the case that people who are. Perhaps more educated are more likely to seek out information from more like legacy journalistic sources. Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. So, and on average, those sources tend to have more things that are empirically true than if you’re just sort of like looking on the internet for whatever you can find. Um, in fact, there’s also some research that shows that the people who report, um, quote unquote doing their own research. They are statistically more likely to believe misinformation, which actually makes sense because when you think you’re doing your own research, you’re actually doing what we call selecting on the dependent variable, which is you are looking for the information that confirms what you think is true. That is just what we tend to do. Unless you’re doing a controlled experiment. Yeah. You’re not actually looking for information that contradicts your beliefs. So, you know, we do this, this is, uh, a lot of times, um, you know, we talk about, uh, personal finance and mm-hmm. And macroeconomics and stuff. How does this translate over to like, beliefs about. Economy, the, you know, ’cause these are, these are important things that, again, there is incredibly different, uh, views on. Sure. You know, um, an example now, uh, an example is that everyone, you know, whether, whatever you believe the pol policy or not, that, that, that, that tariffs were going to drive inflation, a hundred percent inflation was gonna skyrocket. The last CPI number comes under like under three right? 2.7%. Yeah. Like what, what, tell me how this all applies to that kind of news, that information. Yeah, so, so I, I’m going to make a, a couple points that I think will, will get to your question. Yeah. Because, you know, a, a lot of what I have landed on is this role of social identity, right? In shaping belief systems and. One thing that I’m sure you’re familiar with is that when the party in the White House switches overnight from Democrat to Republican, people’s perception of how the economy is doing as a function of political party flips over. So when the White House went from Biden to Trump in January, 2025, overnight, Republicans went from thinking the economy was in the trash to thinking the economy was doing excellent, and Democrats did the opposite. So is that an actual empirical observation of the world, or is that an expression of their. Perception that their team is in charge. Therefore, things must be better. Or now my team is no longer in charge, so now things must be worse. Right. That’s the big one. We see that. You know, I’m. Every election back to who, however long this has been tracked, we see this. Um, another thing that I think is interesting is in terms of people’s perceptions of whether or not the economy is good or bad, that is very much shaped by who we’re talking to and what information we’re exposed to. So this, this in invites a whole host of questions about how should elites talk about. Economic health, right? You had under Biden, Biden trying to tell people, the economy is doing really well, the economy is doing great. Look at all these metrics. The economy is doing great. And so you have Democrats saying, oh yeah, the economy is doing well, and Republicans saying, I am looking at how much things cost. I am looking at, you know, various things in my bank account. I’m gonna say the economy is not doing well. I also think that Biden is not a great president, so I tend to think that things aren’t going well when the other party’s in charge. And then you look now under Trump. Trump is in a bit of a pickle, right? Because he is saying the economy is doing well. He’s saying, look at these metrics, look at these numbers, and you have this sort of. Viral perception among people that we are in a stagnant economy. I even heard my 15-year-old, we were at Costco and we got, you know, their pizza slices are like $2. We got pizza slices and she said, well. You can get a whole dinner for $8 in this economy, Rick. I was like, what? Economy? But, but those perceptions are so, and it, it’s also very, very difficult to figure out where did that perception come from? Yeah, yeah. How do we isolate the source of that perception that this economy is, is not good. Yeah. Well then certainly like behaviors follow, right. And yeah. So I guess, yeah. I guess that’s like, I mean, I’m sure that’s a completely different thing. Like, I mean, how do, how do these, you know, different perceptions. Party based perceptions Sure. Ultimately influence the economy because of the way people think of the economy. Exactly. Right. And how, how do mm-hmm. When it comes to what have tariffs done, right? Mm-hmm. Like I’m not an economist. I do not know what tariffs have done. My understanding from my media exposure is that there are, on some certain kinds of items, prices have gone up a bit, but that some of the other. Like at the grocery store, for example, some of the price increases that we see there are not the result of tariffs. So then what are they the result of when it comes to how we attribute responsibility and blame, that is also very much shaped by our social identity. So if it helps me to think my grapes are expensive because of Donald Trump, then that’s what I’m going to think. Give us your sort of final thought here. Mm-hmm. Just in terms of, you know, what’s, what’s the learning. Here and how can we apply this to our own thinking? So, so I, I like to leave things on, on a kind of positive note because there is a lot to be concerned about in such a fractured information space. Um. One of the things that has been bringing me some, some hope that I think we could carry with us into how we think about what it is that people yearn for, what it is that people want. Even in this, this very splintered environment, I am convinced that even though all of our technology is creating atomized spaces for us to become our most exaggerated version of our self. I think what we really crave as human beings are shared experiences, opportunities for us to share experiences together, whether that be media content that we then want to talk about, whether those be events. There is a reason why football is still such a successful, um. Kind of entertainment. Right? And there’s also a reason why when there are cultural stories that allow us to all talk about them, like the couple at the cold play concert that was outed or whatever, there are reasons why those moments just catch fire. And I think it is because despite the fact that our technology platforms are trying to give us. Atomized, individualized, discreet spaces. At the end of the day, we really do want to share things with one another. Good stuff. Uh, professor Young, uh, uh, Dana Young, it, the book again is Wrong. How Media, politics and Identity Drive Our Appetite for Misinformation. Thank you so much for being on Wealth Formula Podcast. Great. Thanks so much. It was fun. We’ll be right back. You make a lot of money, but are still worried about retirement. Maybe you didn’t start earning until your thirties. Now you’re trying to catch up. Meanwhile, you’ve got a mortgage, a private school to pay for, and you feel like you’re getting further and further behind. Now, good news, if you need to catch up on retirement, check out a program put out by some of the oldest and most prestigious life insurance companies in the world. It’s called Wealth Accelerator, and it can help you amplify your returns quickly, protect your money from creditors, and provide financial protection to your family if something happens to you. The concepts here are used by some of the wealthiest families in the world, and there’s no reason why they can’t be used by you. Check it out for yourself by going to wealthformulabanking.com. Welcome back to the show everyone. Hope you enjoyed it. Again, just make sure that you are getting multiple sources of information. Whether that comes to, you know, this show really is about personal finance and macroeconomics and only politics and all that is not what I’m into, but the point is. That, uh, when it comes to, uh, when it comes to anything including personal finance and microeconomics, make sure you have multiple sources of information. Listen to the arguments and, uh, you know, make a decision that you can live with, whether you’re right or wrong. That’s it for me this week on Wealth Formula Podcast. This is Buck Joffrey signing up. 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