All That's Holy Blue Collar Podcast - the missionplace

A belated happy new year. We're finally showing up here. As the year begins, we look at the upcoming Super Bowl, and will be focusing on the Academy Awards. And just because Craig was feeling nostalgic, the transition music is all from Five Iron Frenzy's musical search for Reese Roper's pants. And, as we recognize Lent is coming soon, we are looking for suggested acronyms for Lent. We try out a few and are looking for some more! Send us your LENTen acronyms!

After getting it figured out what time of the year it is (year's end - Gregorian calendar, year's beginning - lectionary calendar), we agree it is Christmastide. Odd word, “Christmastide”, but as of this recording, it is the 4th Day of Christmas, so the Christmas tide is still rising. As always we begin with random talk about bagels and smoothly segue into hefty theological discussions and conversations about lists. This is the season of lists. The best of the year, the worst of the year, and more. We look at some of those often overlooked lists. Here are some links for what we discussed:Google Search TrendsWorst Things to Spill in Your CarVarieties of Axe FragrancesAnd the inventor of auto-tune, Dr Andy Hildebrand(Apologies to Botticelli's Nativitiy, thanks PhotoShop Generative Fill AI)

Cody and Craig discussed the process of deconstructing theological assumptions by thinking about coconut macaroons, letting go of beliefs that are no longer true or beneficial, and the potential for reconstructing beliefs to align with a deeper truth. We've been using Sesh.com (Dear Sesh, sponsorship?) to guide our conversations. It's a great app that can work with Zoom. By providing a shareable agenda, with timers, meetings can stay on topic and on time. As an added bonus, we've been using the “ice-breaker” feature, which poses random questions, to begin and end our conversations.The conversation also covered a range of other topics including, sports as panentheistic (big word warning: we go against our own motto about not using big words), Christmas celebrations beyond Christmas Day, and experiences at various gourmet restaurants. Support us on Patreon

Zoom AI Companion has been helping to write up the summaries of our conversations. So here's what Zoom said, in part, edited (a little) for accuracy (sort of).Cody and craig discussed a variety of topics, including the new control interface, their podcast which covers a range of topics, household chores, and the societal assumptions about gender roles in household chores. They also engaged in a theological conversation about the historical context of Jesus, the Christmas story, and the concept of Jesus as a nonviolent resistor. They touched on the historical and mythical elements of the Christmas story, the financial and sporting implications of a high-profile player's transfer, their finances and future plans, music, making fruitcake, and casual conversations about classic Christmas movies and action figures.We also spent some time trying to pronounce the Latin term for the third Sunday of Advent, gaudete.It's pretty close. Here are a few of the links to things that were discussed:NCAA Volleyball tournament: https://www.ncaa.com/brackets/volleyball-women/d1/2023 Shohei Ohtani's payout: https://theathletic.com/5126812/2023/12/11/shohei-ohtani-contract-10-numbers-dodgers/?source=user-shared-article ActionAid Sweden and the Christmas Goats: https://youtu.be/ELvsokKcydM?si=VE7dMZPr6y9lP0qG Fruitcake, by the Superions: https://open.spotify.com/track/2KsftzifufXI5ukgcfis77?si=3b826cbf58364e60 Wet Bandits, by The Home Alones: https://open.spotify.com/track/12XnacmXLpsZFE1yn84XDS?si=ca5fa6b06ddd4226 And, especially since it is chilly outside here in North America, support us through Patreon so we can have a warm cup of tea or coffee.

As we open up, we're watching the new captioning tools on Zoom and noticing a few errors, or might they be more correct than we know? To quote Zoom captions: “profound things will be sad…”Craig and Cody talked about sports, with a focus on volleyball and hockey, and a look at the ranking of sports based on player salaries. Cody talked about Advent music, focusing largely on nontraditional (i.e. not in hymnals) songs.Follow the NCAA Volleyball tournament at: Where to watch: https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/38992406/how-watch-2023-ncaa-women-volleyball-championship-espnFind the bracket: https://www.ncaa.com/brackets/volleyball-women/d1/2023 Common Hymnal – Humble PeopleThe Hound + The Fox – What Child is This/Child of the PoorTracey Thorn – JoyDave Bazan – I Heard the Bells on Christmas DayAlana Levandoski – First Advent Starting off, though, continuing the conversation about theological assumptions, Cody and Craig talked about the proper order of themes for Advent. Here are some possible themes:What is the proper order of Advent themes and why?a. Joy, Peace, Love, Hopeb. Hope, Justice, Peace, Joyc. Peace, Peace, Peace, Peaced. Faith, Hope, Joy, Love, Lighte. Prophecy, Promise, Fulfillment, Faithf. Signs, Saviors, Serpents, Songg. Waiting, Preparing, Singing, Laboringh. wear, wash, rinse, repeatWhat do you think would be the best? Login to Patreon and give us a boost, if you will. Also, make sure to rate, like, and share our podcasts. We do all this on a shoestring budget (both money and time are scarce).

We continue talking about the nature of assumptions we carry in our theology, with a slight nod to James Fowler's stages of faith. What would your present theological understanding say to your 20-yr old theological self? What makes it change? Fowler noted that there are some folks who don't get beyond their early faith, and then live on with assumptions that resist maturing. Here's a little cheat-sheet on Fowler's ideas: https://www.ngumc.org/files/fileslibrary/james+fowlers+stages+of+faith.pdfPopular SportsCraig quizzes Cody's sports knowledge on the popularity of global sports. And together, we realize we have no idea how cricket works! Let us know. We're willing to learn. https://aeonledlighting.com/2023/07/top-world-sports/Make-up or Break-up Church Edition?We took off on a tangent conversation about a segment on a local pop music radio station. One Boise's, 102.7, the hosts do a recurring segment on the Joey and Loren Show, called, “Make-Up or Break-Up.” After listening to a portion of a recent broadcast, we wonder if we should start a church version of make-up or break-up. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/joey-and-lauren-in-the-morning/id1481402629 Let us know if you have been a part of some weird church visits, or have not gone back, or you have witnessed some bad church “first-dates.”Patreon SupportSupport Cody and Craig and their emerging podcast media empire at patreon.com/craigdmorton https://www.patreon.com/craigdmorton

ATHBCP Episode 86 After walking down memory lane and thinking about favorite holiday traditions of the past, Cody and Craig move into some more difficult topics. As pastors, how do we talk about, or pray, and lead our congregations to think about the news emerging from Gaza and Israel. Craig talks about going way back to the children of Noah and opening up the notion of “Semitic” culture and language to begin think about what a more pro-Semitic conversation might be. One of the sources for conversation was an article from National Archives which sets some of the history in a longer context. 1917, 1922 League of Nations, 1948 Provisional defacto recognition of state of Israel: https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/press-release-announcing-us-recognition-of-israel Continuing With Theological Assumptions Craig and Cody try to define the idea of a theological assumption. Cody describes his recent sermon which has some tricky interpretive ideas when speaking about God's ability to forgive. More to come on the assumption front. Patreon – go to for our developing Missionplace Media. Support will go for this podcast as well as other podcasts, blogs, and research. Wanna go to Vegas? Las Vegas grand prix discount tickets, https://www.8newsnow.com/sports/vegas-full-throttle/f1-tickets-on-steep-discount-buzz-building-on-las-vegas-prices/ What's the best thing you've heard recently? We reflect on the Country Music Award for best single to Tracy Chapman and Luke Combs. What a wonderful, unexpected couple! Listening to Fast Car, brings back memories and still feels fresh. Listen to Tracy Champman at: Tracy Chapman: https://youtu.be/AIOAlaACuv4?si=yBQk9VZNxndl_Kl0Luke Combs at: https://youtu.be/Fr7oYjnt3bM?si=iRsFus-bU1qdGTEP Follow us and join the conversation at https://www.facebook.com/allthatsholy/

Craig and Cody had a wide-ranging discussion covering technology, New Year's resolutions, theological assumptions, sports ethics, and popular TV shows. They also touched on racial issues in sports and the issues around 'sportswashing', responsible gambling.Regarding theological assumptions, we would love to hear your ideas. To get your mind wrapped around this theme, we played a portion of Gungor's song, God is Not a White Man. The song goes on to describe a lot of ideas that get attached to conceptions of God. Give it a listen. Does it make you think of other assumptions. Tell about those assumptions through our Facebook page. Cody and Craig spent time with having a “commercial” and explaining the new and upcoming resources being developed. Check it out and sign on to become a Patreon supporter. In the future, we will create some merch that will be available.

Cody and Craig resume their award-winning podcast (what awards, you ask?) after several months. And just for nostalgia, we go back to the 2018 introduction with Tom Joad telling what he's been thinking about. We also play around a little with some new artificial intelligence tools to help summarize our conversation. See the podcast write up.

Sarah Augustine Episode 83Cody and I have been on break for a while. Summer means a different pace of work, family time, and travel. We both had church conferences, and other work-related activities. And there were delays because of health issues as well. We spoke with Sarah Augustine earlier this Spring about her work as an advocate for indigenous people's justice in the USA and in Suriname. Sarah is a descendant of the Tewa people, also known as the Pueblo, and lives among the Yakima nation in central Washington. One of the major themes the indigenous people have had to resist is the Christian Nationalist policies emerging from terra nulius. In it various expressions, it has treated indigenous people as mere raw materials on the land; as a part of the land to be exploited (Bureau of Indian Affairs is a subsection of the Department of the Interior, for instance). Terra nulius has justified land theft, kidnapping, killing and domination, and the removal of children from the homes of the birth to be educated in church-based boarding schools. These experiences, established in the age of discovery, instituted, and maintained by the church, demonstrate what Christian Nationalism looks like, and that it is not hypothetical. We've been here before. Sarah Augustine's author page at Anabaptist World : https://anabaptistworld.org/author/sarah-augustine/ and at MennoMedia https://www.mennomedia.org/author/sarah-augustine/ The Land is Not Empty: Following Jesus in Dismantling the Doctrine of Discovery, by Sarah Augustine at Herald Press https://heraldpress.com/9781513808291/the-land-is-not-empty/ https://dofdmenno.org/ https://www.facebook.com/dismantlediscovery/

Together, Craig and Colin discuss how even those traditions (Craig's Mennonite church, and Colin's Friends meetings) can be lured into Christian Nationalism. Additionally, we spend some time discussing the experience of early Quakers in colonial America and execution of the “Boston Martyrs,” by the Massachusetts Bay Colony. From 1659-1661, the theocratic colony executed Marmaduke Stephenson, William Robinson, Mary Dyer, and William Leddra for their alternative beliefs. This history exemplifies one of the false promises of “Christian” nationalism, that is, who's definition of Christian will become the official orthodoxy. In a small way, the experience of the Boston Martyrs is a prequel, or a forecast, of Margaret Atwood's Handmaid's Tale.Follow Colin Saxton at: https://walkingintheway.blog/ and on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/colinb.saxton Our transition music this week comes from Idaho's own, Paul Revere and the Raiders rendition of, Eve of Destruction.

Episode 80 Angela Denker, Part 2Continuation the conversation with Angela DenkerJust a reminder, it isn't too late to hear more from these scholars and writers we're been talking with over the past few months. Drew Strait (episodes 77 and 78) will be hosting a seminar leading voices in studying and describing Christian Nationalism through the Associated Mennonite Biblical Seminary. Follow this link to learn more: https://youtu.be/EIeORYinedo 1 QrtTeddy Wilson from Radical Reports (https://radicalreports.substack.com/) ANNIKA BROCKSCHMIDT & THOMAS LECAQUE at Religion Dispatches “Fascists need martyrs—they need blood to sanctify the ground they walk on, and to call for even more sacrifice from supporters. Trump hasn't explicitly spoken of “Blutzeugen” yet, of “blood witnesses,” as the Nazis called their “martyrs,” or of a “baptism of blood,” as Hitler and his cronies called the Nazis regarding their failed coup of 1923. But he doesn't have to at this point to make the parallel more obvious—because Ashli Babbitt has long become a martyr of the movement, as Jeff Sharlet has shown, as have the still-living insurrectionists behind bars (who can, conveniently, still record propaganda songs).”Paul D. Miller The Religion of American Greatness: What's wrong with Christian Nationalism, “Being an evangelical [religiously understood] does not lead one to enthusiastically support border walls with Mexico, favoring Christian nationalism does. Being an evangelical does not seem to sour Americans' attitudes toward stronger gun control legislation; endorsing Christian nationalism does. Being an evangelical was not an important predictor of which Americans voted for Donald Trump in 2016; supporting Christian nationalism was.”“Nationalism is the belief that humanity is divisible into mutually distinct, internally coherent cultural groups defined by shared traits like ethnicity, language, religion, or culture; that these groups should each have their own governments; that one of the purposes of government is to promote and protect a nation's cultural identity; and that sovereign nations with strong cultures provide meaning and purpose for human beings.”2-3 Qrt Part 2 with Angela DenkerTransition music Mars, by Sleeping at Last on Spotify 4th QrtWe talk about little bit about sports, especially the breakthrough tournament for the Women's NCAA tournament. For more information about women's sports, and women's perspectives on sports in general, listen to The Gist of It Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-gist-of-it/id1496908555

Episode 79, Angela Denker, Part 1First Quarter:· The governmental imposition of religion, and religion's happy acceptance:o Lerone Martin's new book, The Gospel of J. Edgar Hoovero Weaponizing Jesus: Prince Of Peace? Christian Nationalists Push Jesus As Military Leadero Who is Policing the Military: The Coup & The Military-Christian Nationalist Industrial Complexo The Military Religious Freedom Foundation, check out their archives for all the projects they continue to report and work on. Second and Third Quarter – Conversation with Angela Denker part 1. Author of Red State Christians: A Journey into White Christian Nationalism and the Wreckage It Leaves Behind Angela is a multi-talented creative person. Along with being an athlete, a sports journalist, an ordained Lutheran pastor (ELCA), a writer, and also (now) a substitute teachers. Angela now lives in Minneapolis with her husband and children. Previously, Angela served a Lutheran parish in one of the most maga-friendly parts of the country in Orange County, California. Visit Angela Denker's writings and substack at: https://www.angeladenker.com/ and at I'm Listening on SubstackHang out with some of our podcast friends at the Resisting Christian Nationalism with the Gospel of Peace seminar at Anabaptist Mennonite Biblical Seminary. An online short course taught by Drew Strait. Dates: April 12 – May 9, 2023. Early registration deadline: March 22, 2023. Final registration deadline April 5, 2023Transition music by Fields and Fortresses, Freedom has a SoundFourth Quarter:· March Madness· Spring plans

First Quarter – Order, Freedom, and Violence the big three of Christian Nationalism (Perry and Gorski, The Flag and the Cross)Additional Informationhttps://bjconline.org/bringing-more-engagement-to-the-fight-against-christian-nationalism/https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/05/20/white-christian-nationalism-buffalo-abortion/Institutions of CN propaganda: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claremont_Institutehttps://americanmind.org/salvo/why-the-claremont-institute-is-not-conservative-and-you-shouldnt-be-either/ “Let's be blunt. The United States has become two nations occupying the same country. When pressed, or in private, many would now agree. Fewer are willing to take the next step and accept that most people living in the United States today—certainly more than half—are not Americans in any meaningful sense of the term…They do not believe in, live by, or even like the principles, traditions, and ideals that until recently defined America as a nation and as a people. It is not obvious what we should call these citizen-aliens, these non-American Americans; but they are something else…. Authentic Americans are men, not gerbils—or robots…If you are a zombie or a human rodent who wants a shadow-life of timid conformity, then put away this essay and go memorize the poetry of Amanda Gorman. Real men and women who love honor and beauty, keep reading. Authentic Americans still want to have decent lives.”Hillsdale College and the 1776 Report an unveiled response to the 1619 Project. Horrible lack of peer review! Lack of citation evidence Second and Third Quarter – Drew Strait, part 2 Fourth Quarter – Transition music by James and the Shame, In VainSports, Culture, Cooking

First Quarter· Christian Nationalism and the Perfect Storm· Some of the resources mentioned:o https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/groups?f%5B0%5D=field_ideology%3A183o Marcia Pally, Twitter @marcia_pally author of White Evangelicals and Right-Wing Populismo PRRI: Understanding the Threat of White Christian Nationalismo Samuel Perry and Andrew Whitehead, Taking America Back for God: Christian Nationalism in the United Stateso Robert Putnam, Bowling Alone: Revised and Updated: The Collapse and Revival of American CommunitySecond and Third Quarter· Dr. Drew Strait, Twitter: @DrewStrait Assistant Professor of New Testament and Christian Origins at Anabaptist Mennonite Theological Seminary. “The church is behind the ball in constructing resistance and developing strategic peacebuilding.”“Whiteness is the gravitational center of Christian nationalism.”“I'm not primarily coming at this to save democracy…but to reinscribe the church with the life a teachings of Jesus, and to recognize and acknowledge that white Christian nationalism is the greatest threat to the church's public witness.”Drew presents a solid three-part theological working definition of Christian nationalism: “A movement wherein theological imagination is coopted by state power…where a ethno-racial identity becomes more important than one's baptismal identity in Christ; a view that sees militarized kingdoms of this world rather the unarmed multicultural church as the primary context for bearing witness to Jesus and the kingdom of God, it is a perversion of Jesus' way of peace that ends up endorsing state violence, police brutality, and personal armament as expressions of Christian discipleship.”Fourth QuarterWe banter about revival for the perspective of a sarcastic Lutheran (Nadia Bolz Weber) and a poet (Jessica Ice), while also taking time to consider shut-put world records (Ryan Crouser) and the Banshees of Inisherin. Wow! We can diversify. Follow us on Twitter @allthatsholy; and Facebook @allthatsholy

Episode 76: Pamela Cooper-White, part twoLike a football game, or a basketball game, we're trying to outline our podcast into four quarter. After checking in with each other, we begin by continuing our conversation from the last episode regarding Christian Nationalism. There are numerous resources mentioned in this conversation, especially scholars who are producing new research on Christian nationalism. Notably, these scholars represent the fields of politics, history, and social science. There is information below abut how to follow them. Also, some key quotes from some of their amazing work. In the second and third quarters, we hear the second half of Craig's conversation with Dr. Pamela Cooper-White. By the time we get to the fourth quarter, the hot topics have cooled and we do our muddled review of the Super Bowl. Our next episodes in this series will be with Drew Strait, Assistant Professor of New Testament and Christian Origins at the Anabaptist Mennonite Theological Seminary. Key scholars to follow (Twitter handles)Samuel Perry @profsamperry Philip Gorski @GorskiPhilipKristen Du Mez @kkdumezKathleen Belew @kathleen_belew Andrew Whitehead @ndrewwhitehead Bradley Onishi @BradleyOnishiMatthew Taylor @TaylorMatthewDJamar Tisby @JemarTisbyAngela Denker @angela_denker Jamar Tisby's definition: “White Christian Nationalism is an ethnocultural ideology that uses Christian symbolism to create a permission structure for the acquisition of political power and social control.”Stephen Wolfe: a recent manifesto written as a defense and a directive for White Christian Nationalism. The Gospel Coalition provided a helpful review of Wolfe's book in which these Wolfe quotes were noted. Christian nationalism is, “a totality of national action, consisting of civil laws and social customs, conducted by a Christian nation as a Christian nation, in order to procure for itself both earthly and heavenly good in Christ.” For example: Wolfe says a mark of nationalism is that “each people group has a right to be for itself” (118), and that “no nation (properly conceived) is composed of two or more ethnicities” (135), and that our “instinct to conduct everyday life among similar people is natural, and being natural, it is for your good” (142), and that “to exclude an out-group is to recognize a universal good for man” (145), and that “spiritual unity is inadequate for formal ecclesial unity” (200), and that “the most suitable condition for a group of people to successfully pursue the complete good is one of cultural similarity” (201).Whitehead and Perry: speak of CN as “Christianity co-opted in the service of ethno-national power and separation” and “Christian nationalism is a cultural framework–a collection of myths, traditions, symbols, narratives, and value systems–that idealizes and advocates a fusion of Christianity with American civil life”” (Taking America Back for God)Key categories of types of people: Accommodators and Ambassadors were both characterized as being “supportive” of “Christian nationalism” while Resisters and Rejecters “opposed” Christian nationalism.Also see the latest research from PRRI https://www.prri.org/research/a-christian-nation-understanding-the-threat-of-christian-nationalism-to-american-democracy-and-culture/ Kathleen Belew, Bring the War Home, “White power should be recognized as something broader than the Klan, encompassing a wider range of ideologies and operating simultaneously in public and underground. Such an understanding is vital lest we erroneously equate white power with covert violence and thereby ignore its significant inroads into mainstream society, which hardly came under cover of night.” Code words: Mating calls, Dog Whistles, Triggers (Samuel Perry)Music played in this episode is from Thrice, A Better Bridge, and Jackie DeShannon, What the World Needs Now

In this episode we begin our series on describing a pastoral response to Christian nationalism. We also learn from scholar, Dr Pamela Cooper-White and her work at helping to bridge and create meaningful conversations with those who are Christian nationalists. Pamela Cooper-White is the Christine Brooks Johnson Professor of Psychology and Religion at Union Theological Seminary in New York. Dr Cooper-White is also a certified clinical fellow in the American Association of Pastoral Counselors. In her book, The Psychology of Christian Nationalism: Why People are Drawn In and How to Talk Across the Divide, from Fortress Press. Dr. Cooper-White provides cultural background, a psychological frame of reference, and key practices to work at building empathetic and meaning relationships with those who think differently, sometime very differently, than we do. In the first part of this conversation, Dr Cooper-White provides the trends and social developments, and the group psychology that has led to the emergence of the current expression of Christian nationalism. In the next episode, we will continue the conversation and look at the practices the will help people to “talk across the divide.”Also, we spend a bit of time making Super Bowl predictions on certain aspects of the game that are often left out of conversations. Let us know what you think. As we continue to talk about Christian nationalism, are there ideas or questions you have? Respond to us on Twitter @allthatsholy, or on Facebook.Music this week was from, A Better Bridge, by Thrice, and can be found on our developing Spotify playlist, called No SWAJ (SWAJ refers to the notion of a straight white American Jesus). Or, you can find it on Youtube. Make sure to review us on Apple podcasts with a positive review. If you have something negative to say, just send it to us - or maybe just to Cody.

Cody and Craig are back. This episode is a preview of some of the topics we are looking to jump into as 2023 moves along. We will be a bit more organized, maybe. One can hope! We are pursuing two different series. We've never really carried out a series before, so this might not only be a challenge for us, but for you, our listeners. We continue to speak from a shared theological framework of open and relational theology, aka ORT. We have conducted interviews with Johnathan Foster and Bruce Epperly and will be adding more conversations regarding ORT as we build the series on this theological framework.The other series is seeking to develop resources to respond to the growth of Christian nationalism. We have had conversations with Pamela Cooper-White, Drew Strait, and Angela Denker to workout what is a pastoral response to Christian nationalism. For now, we just have ourselves to talk to in this episode so you can reacquaint yourselves with what we sound like. We also included some music from our new Spotify playlist, No SWAJ (link below):Anti-Flag: Victory or Death: https://youtu.be/bWVAVTUcxUc Spinifex Gum: Locked up: https://youtu.be/imWGnlzLPiU Make sure to review us on Apple podcasts with a positive review. If you have something negative to say, just send it to us - or maybe just to Cody. Also, follow us on Twitter @allthatsholy. Also, Craig is creating his playlist to resist Christian nationalism on Spotify, called No SWAJ (SWAJ refers to the notion of a straight white American Jesus)

In this conversation Craig gets to visit with Dr. Brittany Wilson associate professor of New Testament at Duke University Divinity School about her book, Embodying God: Seeing the Divine in Luke-Acts and the Early Church, and the different ways that ways we can be enabled to consider the presence of God. One of the things that this book creates is a little bit of a conflict with the classic hymn, Immortal, Invisible, God Only Wise. Rather we end up finding that God is not always so invisible. Relying on both in the Hebrew tradition that Luke leans on, as well as the way he uses language to describe the presence of Jesus in the Gospel of Luke and the way Jesus maintains his presence through the Holy Spirit in the Book of Acts.Along the way we pick up other ideas of how this book, and the ideas presented in it, can be helpful in congregational settings. We get a bit curious about whether or not the concept of God's embodiment plays out in charismatic churches. And conclude with a bit of conversation about the Durham Bulls minor League Baseball team.You can follow Professor Brittany Wilson's work at her faculty page at Duke divinity school: https://divinity.duke.edu/faculty/brittany-e-wilson

Before we get around to discussing the value of public apiologies, we queue up Youtube and Spotify tunes. We got into a discussion of what music we've been listening to this summer. Eventually, we get around to discussing one of Cody's favorite bands, Mewithoutyou which just completed their farewell your. We'll hear more about Mewithoutyou in a podcast later this year. Sorry for the delay…I apologize, can you forgive me. We got sidetracked talking about music when we really wanted to discuss the value of public apologies. Specifically, Cody references an apology from the Pope to the First People of Canada, which gets us onto the wider topic of apology and forgiveness. Wrapping up this episode, we give a bit of a preview of the amazing people with whom we are working to schedule some time for a conversation.

Cody and Craig take on a number of topics on their way toward discussing the theological metaphors arising in season four of Stranger Things. If you have not watched it yet, you should. Cody's family would suggest that you have a few boxes of tissues readily available. But, before we talk about that, we cover a range of topics, unrelated other than the fact that they emerged from our minds. Is there a better Greek prefix we should begin using when talking about “good news?” Evangellion, has pretty much become over-ripe and may need replacing. Maybe.We talk about the great news of a new hot line being unveiled nationally for mental. 988 will take over the suicide prevention hotlines as well as widen the scope to other mental health needs. We talk about the greatest idea in Major League Baseball in a generation: sudden-death tie-breakers. We eventually get around to talking about Stranger Things. Let us know how you theologize!And we announce our big idea for a new series of podcasts beginning next summer. It is an awesome idea. If you happen to have a boat load of cash for us to use, you can help bring this great idea to fruition.

Cody and Craig catchup with each other post-Fourth of July. We also discuss the upcoming conversation guests are planning to talk with and some of the topics we will be looking at in the near future. Spoiler Alert: We will be talking about Stranger Things without restraint and without calling out any spoiler alerts. So, if you haven't binged on it yet, it's time to catch up.

After getting an update on Cody's health (and what I heard as “butt nerves”?) we have a conversation (with a number of technical difficulties) about some quick updates on: Stanely Cup, golf and the LIV league, and then a bit about of youth basketball as Angela joined us, as we to talked way too briefly about DeShaun Watson and the questions about the state of the NFL regarding sexual misconduct and ethics. We had a fun conversation with someone whose venn diagram of interests looks a bit like Cody's and Craig's. Years ago, when Cody wondered who could discuss theology, sports, and pastoring, he asked Craig. And today's guest covers those three areas with astounding excellence. We speak with writer, pastor, and athlete, Angela Denker around the upcoming release of her updated book, Red State Christians. Revising and updating parts of the book, Angela is highlighting the emerging impact of white Christian nationalism. Since having written the book, there's been a pandemic, George Floyd was murdered just miles from her home, there was a movement toward racial reckoning and justice, and an attempted insurrection. In all these things, the voice of white Christian nationalism broadcast an over-sized voice, and it needs to be called out. Additionally, we got into some deep theological issues around atonement and incarnation. The white Christian nationalistic movements have, in effect, denied Jesus his ancient Palestinian identity, and evangelicals (as well as any other Christians) need to wake up to this. Pre-order Angela Denker's updated book, from https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781506482507You can read at her site https://www.angeladenker.com/ and her blog, which also points to other published work at: https://agoodchristianwoman.blogspot.com/ And Angela keeps an active Twitter feed, which is a great place to follow her.

Episode 68 Matthew Paul TurnerWe've been hearing a LOT about deconstruction the last few years, even featuring episodes about the topic here and there on this podcast. But what comes AFTER deconstruction? The answer will of course be different for each person. Matthew Paul Turner– a forerunner of the current deconstruction movement by over a decade– has found an answer that suits him well, and might work for many others: telling better stories. Specifically in the form of picture books.His work in this particular genre began with When God Made You, and since then he has published many more, including What is God Like?, When I Pray For You, and his most recent book, I Am God's Dream.https://matthewpaulturner.com/https://matthewpaulturner.com/category/jesus-needs-new-pr/Our broad ranging discussion covers a LOT of ground, including: How the campaign of George W. Bush gave him a spiritual orgasm with the catchy phrase “compassionate conservatism,” but eventually left him empty, especially in the wake of Hurricane Katrina (which Matthew notes as the deconstruction starting point for him) “I no longer wanted my theology to be against people.”How he started first critiquing what was wrong with his Evangelical subculture in his classic blog, “Jesus Needs New PR.” The path led him to start writing children's books, because he was “looking for words to read over their kids” that weren't destructive of left his children thinking God was a monster. How “children's literature” is a misnomer, and his preference for the term “picture books”, which enable others to see the spiritual life anew. The importance of representing all people in his books, and having a girl of color , first Illustrated by David Catrow, provide a powerful way forward by be the stand in for us all in his books.About his latest book I Am God's Dream being written during hard times, and includes that reality in the pages– but is ultimately driven by hope and joy. Matthew shares withs us a little about how he finds joy.AND MUCH MORE

Is there any hope for “Recovery” after dismantling the scaffolding of your faith? Can you find a spiritual community after the painful challenges of walking away from a church culture in which you have been deeply enmeshed?Cody and Craig had a fun and thoughtful conversation with musician, go-kart czar, and pizza delivery guy, Forrest Clay who faced all of this himself over the last decade plus.At one time, Clay was deeply involved in worship music leadership and was even part of a touring Christian band, on the precipice of releasing albums and discussing record deals.And then he wasn't. Clay discusses the cognitive dissonance of evangelical messaging, Northern Ohio politics, and his own journey of deconstruction and finding a new path forward. His current perspective gives him some unique insight to share “warning signs” with churches and ministers about the lure of power, influence, and celebrity.He shares about his most recent EP, Recover, a four-year musical journal of sorts. The record gives voice to the pain and challenges Clay faced while deciding to walk away from the church community and culture in which he was deeply rooted. The separation was hard, and yet he found hope in a deeper and more expansive vision of the “image of God” that he paints in his music.Other tidbits:There is such a thing as go-kart cultureDelivering pizza can be a liberating experienceIt IS possible to find a spiritual community after deconstructionWe listen to Forrest Clay's song “Recover”Follow Forrest Clay on Facebook, Spotify, and Bandcamp

Episode 66 Sunia GibbsUMC pastor at The Groves in Portland, Oregon. Born in South Korea and raised in Minneapolis, Sunia arrived in Portland to work with the Assemblies of God campus ministries at Portland State University. Through the United Methodist church, Sunia became a church planter and worked at restoring and renewing and rooting the church in the neighborhood. We cover a lot of ground with Sunia in this conversation:A methodology for church life: It is the impulse toward justice, a strategic organizing of the church that is part of a larger strategy of sustained movements of justice in Portland”The experience of living in different cities and interacting with differing cultures: “Former assimilators make the best interpreters.”Reflections of pastoring through the pandemic: “There is no return to normal…we are changed forever.”Listen to Sunia perform, There is a River links to Parish Collective and to the upcoming Inhabit ConferenceLink to The Groves Church

Craig and Cody connect for a shorter episode to discuss two topics in particular: The recent wave of retirements in the world of professional athletics (headlined by Tom Brady) prompts Cody to ask: When do you know it's time to quit? We don't leave the discussion in the realm of sports—we talk about careers, ministry, and relationships.The conversation naturally flows to the popular topic of deconstruction. While both hosts are pro deconstruction, both notice a couple troublesome aspects that can suck the life and positive intent out of deconstruction: 1. marketing/capitalizing on it as a trend; and 2. getting frozen in deconstruction as a “calling card,” rather than building anything new from the rubble.Articles and addenda mentioned: “Why We Should Not Redeem ‘Deconstruction'” article by Alisa Childers“Why We Should Not Redeem ‘Fundamentalist Evangelicalism'” by Jared ByasThe Bible for Normal People, Episode 194: Staying Christian is Hard, isn't it?“5 Challenges to Staying Christian,” by Pete Enns

Cody and Craig visit with Katie Hargrove. Katie was also with us in earlier episodes, Episode 52: Kalie and Pride Month, and Episode 53: Kaile, A Look at Genesis 1 & 2. Kaile is a pastor at First Christian Church of Decatur, Ga., and a seminary student. In the midst of Kalie's seminary education, suddenly her academic world was changed when her school informed her that they could not accept her as a transperson. Fortunately, she has found a new school in which she can continue her education. But that shift was not her idea, not her intention. We cover a variety of topics:Title IX, a US law that is intended to provide equal access to education creates loopholes for exclusions based on religious exceptions. You learn what Title IX is at www.ed.gov/category/keyword/title-ixKalie introduces us to REAP, The Religious Exemption Accountability Project We spend some time talking about the Independent Christian Church and the Restoration Movement, and the fruit that Kalie sees in parts of this stream of Christianity. In our wind down of the discussion, Kalie shares with us what she is reading (Nevada, by Imogen Binne; and Spiritual Care in an Age of #BlackLivesMatter, by Danielle J. Buhuro); what she is watching (The Good Place); and what she is listening to (the album Late Bloomer, by Semler)To learn more about Kalie, read her devotional on OurBibleApp.com, Celebrating Gender Diversity at: https://www.ourbibleapp.com/new-blog/rev-kalie-hargrove and read more about Kalie's Title IX complaint and the class-action lawsuit here and here. ______________Follow and interact with The All That's Holy: Blue Collar Podcast on Facebook and TwitterFollow and buy music from At The Speed of Darkness on Bandcamp and Instagram.

When we first started, we outlined our podcast conversations around the daily liturgy - kinda. We even had an offering of sorts where we'd ask for money to support the podcast and the sponsor (themissionplace.org). But rather than having a benediction at the end, we would have a “Two-Minute Warning.”In football, the two-minute warning represents a fast-paced offense, and an edge-of-your-seat defense. The two teams can go head-to-head, sometime playing more focused and deliberate football than in the previous minutes that preceded it. We turned that into an offense and defense speaking to a proposition with one-minute each. We even used a whistle. We leave it up to you, dear listener to determine who scores. In the following two-minute warnings, Cody and Craig flex their intellectual muscles. The power of reason. And the sheer determination to bend rational processing to squeeze out a victory. Enjoy!

We spoke with Tobin, Professor of African American Studies, several months ago (https://www.themissionplace.org/allthatsholybluecollar/episode45) and learned that he wasn't keeping up with University of Montana Football (nonetheless, Go Griz). We speak to Tobin again and meet his long-time friend and partner in struggle to dismantle racism, Dr. Regina Shands Stoltzfus of Goshen College. Regina is professor in the Religion, Justice, and Society department and worked at anti-oppression and anti-racism for over thirty years. Over that time, she and Tobin co-founded several anti-racism initiatives for institutions, leaders, and the general public. We're visiting with them because of their new book, Been in the Struggle: Pursuing and antiracist spirituality, by Herald Press.We gained some insight, and we hope you'll be curious to learn:· what is racialization?· how does culture play a role in developing both our spirituality and our racialization?· in the midst of injustice and oppression, how do both compassion and reckoning function? When might “grace” not be the best approach?Follow and interact with The All That's Holy: Blue Collar Podcast on Facebook and TwitterFollow and buy music from At The Speed of Darkness on Bandcamp and Instagram.

Black Friday Record Store Dayhttps://recordstoreday.com/ Listen to Cody rattle off new pressings of albums and some pressed-again (not repressed) albums. Buy Black Friday – https://twitter.com/BBFInitiativehttps://twitter.com/blkfoodfridaysSmall Business Saturday, November 27, 2021https://www.americanexpress.com/us/small-business/shop-small/

Jacob and Katie O'Neall Eckeberger, aka My Anchor Holds, write and perform music “music for those with an evolving faith.” We had a really fun conversation with them as we learned about their musical/theological journey. But before we got into that conversation, Cody and Craig were marveling at one of the events in sports culture. The Washington Post had reported that a pair of Michael Jordan's used shoes sold for $1.4 million, “shattering a record for game-used footwear.” That's a lot of money for used shoes. But you learn something new every day – there's a category of auction items actually called “game-used footwear.” There's probably a category for just plain used footwear. Maybe your shoes, too? After about 40 minutes of nonsense covering Advent (learn about Katheen Lundquist and Of the Father's Love Begotten), sneakers, March Madness medical procedures, and Vikings, we talked with Katie and Jacob. Then, we began talking about music, worship, and My Anchor Hold's upcoming EP, Holding Out Faith, being released November 19th. And we also get to listen to the title track “Holding Out Faith”. Their faith journey provides a hopeful path, especially for all those who are reconsidering the faith they entered into. Theirs is a process of reconstruction. Their music brings both music for audiences to listen to and reflect, while other songs are intended not for an audience, but for fellow journeyers to sing in worship and community. Jacob and Katie comment that worship music is a way to see outside of ourselves. As they describe this perspective and this journey, they state: “we want to connect with anyone from anywhere that has the same passion for finding God in unlikely places and movements of justice that fight for space for everyone” (myanchorholds.net)One of the questions that lingered long before our conversation began arose from a social media post from Katie, pondering where is worship music to be found for the progressive, left-leaning church, inclusive, and justice-oriented church? We discuss that a many other things.You can follow on social media, and My Anchor Holds on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/MyAnchorHolds/ On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/myanchorholds/and Twitter https://twitter.com/My_Anchor_Holds and TikTok @mrsobergerBuy their upcoming EP, being released November 19 Music can be found on Spotify, iTunes, and CDBaby Follow and interact with The All That's Holy: Blue Collar Podcast on Facebook and TwitterFollow and buy music from At The Speed of Darkness on Bandcamp and Instagram.

The F Episode: How to Have an EnemyThis is the F episode, perhaps it seems we don't know our letters well. Don't we mean frenemies, you might be asking yourself. But no! Cody and Craig do stick with the letter “F” through our 50-plus minutes of banter and commentary and opinion, before getting into conversation with our guest. Some the F's we talk about include:· Felix, as in Allyson, not the cat. Look up Allyson Felix's new shoe company, Saysh.· Freedom, as in the type sung about by the New Respects· Fourth-down conversation stats· Fantasy FootballWe visit with author and Mennonite pastor, Melissa Florer-Bixler and hear about her new book, How to Have an Enemy (Herald Press). Melissa is a writer and pastor with degrees from Duke University and Princeton Theological Seminary. Her ministry at Raleigh Mennonite Church has been featured in The Atlantic and Sojourners. She writes for Geez Magazine, Christian Century, Mennonite World Review, and The Mennonite, among others. She lives with her husband and three children in Raleigh, North Carolina.Learn about the value of truth-telling, when the truth is that there are forces working against God's good news.Ponder what is means to pastor in a purple church.Melissa also talks a bit about her latest Netflix interest and what's on her playlist.Follow and interact with The All That's Holy: Blue Collar Podcast on Facebook and TwitterFollow and buy music from At The Speed of Darkness on Bandcamp and Instagram.

On this episode (LONG in the making but well worth the wait), Cody and Craig quickly discuss a few S topics before chatting with their guest Dominique DuBois Gilliard (author of Subversive Witness: Scripture's Call to Leverage Privilege.Episode 57: Subversively Sly Sunshine (with Guest Dominique DuBois Gilliard)ATHBPDominique DuBois Gilliard is the Director of Racial Righteousness and Reconciliation for the Evangelical Covenant Church. He is the author of Rethinking Incarceration: Advocating for Justice that Restores, which won a 2018 Book of the Year Award for InterVarsity Press and was named Outreach Magazine's 2019 Social Issues Resource of the Year. Gilliard's latest book, Subversive Witness: Scripture's Call to Leverage Privilege was just published by Zondervan. Gilliard also serves as an adjunct professor at North Park Theological Seminary in its School of Restorative Arts and serves on the board of directors for the Christian Community Development Association. In 2015, the Huffington Post named him one of the “Black Christian Leaders Changing the World.”In addition to the fascinating discussion about Dominique's book, Craig and Cody also spent a little time talking about a couiple of S topics:Both agree that the the coaches and administrators and parents and EVERYONE INVOLVED with the Bishop Sycamore scandal were incredibly SLY, SHADY, and SLIMYWe talk about the SUN finally making an appearance after so much smoke all SUMMER long.We highlight some SERIOUS SCRIPTURAL ABUSE from the Biden AdministrationPLUS a bit more from here and there!Pertinent Links from the Dominque DuBois Gilliard portion:Learn about Domique's denomination, the Evangelical Covenant ChurchCheck out the Christian Community Development Association, where Dominique serves as board memberRead about the School of Restorative Arts at Northpark Theological SeminaryFollow and interact with The All That's Holy: Blue Collar Podcast on Facebook and TwitterFollow and buy music from At The Speed of Darkness on Bandcamp and Instagram.

Craig and Cody make a majestically triumphant return! And this time, they keep the alphabet momentum going by showcasing the letter “M,” including an interview with a new band called Thinking About You Underwater (TAYU).Mayhem, Magic Beans, and Meteorology Craig recounts the mishaps on his trek home from Arizona, featuring motor vehicle mayhem, a magic coffee concoction he discovered at a coffee shop while waiting for his car to be fixed, and how smoke affected his journey—which led us into a discussion of the term “contained” when reading reports about wildfires.MusicCody interviews the fresh new band TAYU (Thinking About You Underwater). Hailing from Eugene, Oregon, they have an updated retro sound (if that makes sense). They cover the ins and outs of making their debut album in the middle of pandemic, how they formed in the first place, and share a little bit about themselves. TAYU is: Wade Bulger (Guitars/Background Vocals); Grant Williamson (Vocals/Keys); Brandon Ferguson (Bass); and Nick Smo (Drums/Percussion)learn more and find their socials:https://linktr.ee/tayuMental Health & Athletics With the recent news surrounding athletes making mental health a priority, Craig and Cody discuss: performance anxiety; pressure from within and without; what athletes owe the public; what coaches can do and prioritize to help athletes be healthy; dealing with choking and the yips; and more.Pertinent Links:Angela Duckworth, Grit: The Power of Passion and PerseveranceSian Beilock, Choke: What the Secrets of the Brain Reveal About Getting It Right When You Have To Masks, Mandates, and Micromorts 18 months into a pandemic, and we're still discussing issues about personal liberty vs. public responsibility; how and why American Christians are failing Following Jesus 101 and choosing to bow to the idol of personal liberty. Craig shares about a museum exhibit in Arizona that featured hand beaded COVID masks crafted by Indigenous artists in response to the pandemic and in protest of the high-rate of mortality among the Indigenous populations that is linked to their historic treatment in the USA. We also learn about micromorts—a measure of risk of mortality—and a resource that uses your local data to calculate your Micromort in relation to COVID-19.Pertinent Links: Microcovid.org Behind the Mask: Indigenous Artists Speak Out (Heard Museum) Christians and the VaccineManual Dexterity (Craigs upcoming surgery)Craig reveals that he has been suffering from Dupuytrens contracture in his hands—which is slowly turning his hands into permanently balled-up fists. But he is having surgery to fix it!Follow and interact with The All That's Holy: Blue Collar Podcast on Facebook and TwitterFollow and buy music from At The Speed of Darkness on Bandcamp and Instagram.

With Joe, we tackle the following “F” topics:Food & FaithWe discuss how the pandemic led Joe to discover a passion for cooking food at home with his family and learning the joy of discovery, creativity, and “ownership” with his children when it comes to preparing and eating foodHow the restaurant industry is showing the church how to face the new normal, coming out of the pandemic Joe shares his vision for a restaurant church that would feature a common table setting and a shared family meal from the mind of a top-notch chefFilthy RichWe talk about the Great Space Race and Rocket Measuring Contest of the Billionaire Class, and whether there is any benefit to be gainedWe discuss the differences in approach between each mission and Billionaire (Branson vs. Bezos vs. Musk) and their connection to the common good, if anyWhy simply taxing them more won't ever work, and how the approach to taxing them and their enterprises will require a creative new tax approach (we even offer some ideas) because the current tax burden falls on the employees, not CEO's or the corporation.FootballThough we are talking “F's” in this episode, we discuss Aaron Rodgers who appears not to give any this offseasonWe briefly discuss the revelation that he was offered the largest contract in NFL history—and turned it downFantastic FailureWe discuss the hottest new serial style podcast, “The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” by Christianity TodayWe examine the draw toward charismatic, authoritarian leadersWe revisit the early 2000's through 2015 period discussed in the podcast, plus our own small perspectives on when we realized Mark Driscoll was a bad eggAll this PLUS our usual amount of foolishness and frivolity!Pertinent LinksLearn more about Joe and connect with his church: Bothell UMCOrder the coffee Joe is drinking: Mt. Comfort CoffeeCheck out the podcasts Joe listens to on a regular basis: The Ringer Network and The Dave Chang ShowListen to the beautiful and amazing Korean music Joe references, a band called LEENALCHI, combining ancient Korean musical storytelling (pansori) with modern K-Pop elementsCheck out the podcast The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill from Christianity TodayRead the book The Pastor: A Crisis, by Bradley Jersak and Wm. Paul YoungFollow and interact with The All That's Holy: Blue Collar Podcast on Facebook and TwitterFollow and buy music from At The Speed of Darkness on Bandcamp and Instagram.

Keeping the alliteration theme going, Craig and Cody talk about the letter “O” on this episode! Opening with some, um… QUESTIONABLE (at best) beatboxing and a MUCH too deep of a dive into the anthropological implications of Disney's Pinocchio (although some profound things were definitely accidentally said), we moved quickly to our O topics for the day: OHTANI Like every other baseball fan (and an increasing number of non-baseball fans), we are ENTHRALLED with Shohei “Shotime” Ohtani. What he is achieving this season so far is unprecedented in the history of the game. This discussion was recorded prior to the All-Star Game, where Ohtani became the first player in MLB history to start in the mid-season classic as both a pitcher and a hitter. He is leading the majors in home runs AND pitching very well (one disastrous outing aside). We discuss: Preaching illustrations using Ohtani's ability to “be ready in season or out of season. Why self-labeled “purists” need to get over their disdain of the Babe Ruth comparisons and just enjoy what we are witnessing OLYMPICS Our discussion of comparing eras of sports led to a discussion on activist athletes in history, and competitors whose mere existence and life story inspired minorities and moved change forward. The Olympics have historically been a place where international politics have led to some dismal decisions—and this years Olympics are no different. We discuss: The Nigerian Olympic team being unable to field a 400 team because the JUDGES placed the cones wrong, leading to disqualifications of all competitors. Caster Semanya, and her lifetime ban from competing due to hormone levels beyond her control Two Nambian Olympic sprinters, Christine Mboma and Beatrice Masilingi were disqualified from competing in the 400 meter for the same reason as Caster—natural testosterone levels too high (though they CAN compete in the 200?) Sha'carri Richardson essentially being banned from the Olympic team for he use of marijuana. Brianna Rollins-McNeal and her HIGHLY questionable five-year ban for “tampering with medical records,” when she CORRECTED the medical records incorrect date that was listed (she adjusted the doctor's mistaken date of a procedure). We notice the common denominator in ALL of this: women of color being forced not to compete. OPEN & RELATIONAL THEOLOGY, OORD We share some insights on Dr. Thomas Oord's newest book Open & Relational Theology: An Introduction to Life-Changing Ideas (which features an endorsement from the All That's Holy Blue Collar Podcast. We give a basic overview of the book, with Cody sharing some of his favorite things about the book How open & relational theology is a perfect avenue to explore God during times of trauma and upheaval And of course a whole lot more! Follow and interact with The All That's Holy: Blue Collar Podcast on Facebook and Twitter Follow and buy music from At The Speed of Darkness on Bandcamp and Instagram.

Kalie joins us once again— last installment, Kalie shared with us her personal story of transition and embracing fully who she is. This time, Kalie drops some insight on familiar scripture, Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. Highlights from this episode include:How LGBTQ+ people fit in to the creation narrative.The ways our cultural views shape our take on the creation story, and vice versa.Kalie notes that we don't hold nature to strict binary categories, even though the creation story presents God's creation in general binary categories (earth/sky, land/water, etc.). So why humans?ACCIDENTALLY PROFOUND STATEMENT ALERT: Cody notes that limiting the image of God even by a factor of one (down to binary) creates a false image, and is thus idolatry.ACCIDENTALLY PROFOUND STATEMENT ALERT 2: Kalie notes that being like Christ does NOT mean giving up who you are, but is rather about being FULLY who you are.Kalie talks about how the early church took Jesus' teachings seriously, and thus began exploding patriarchal norms and cultural constructs of masculinity. UNTIL some leaders put a stop to it with a new interpretation on Jesus' teachings.and much, MUCH more. Pertinent Links:here is a recently published article Kalie penned for Whosoever (an online magazine that serves as a resource for LGBT Christians)A book Kalie mentioned:Transforming: The Bible and the Lives of Transgender Christians A sermon Kalie preached:Loved and Affirmed from Creation: How LGBTQ+ are Expressions of God's Image in HumanityFind Kalie and interact with her on instagram: @JustKalieHFollow and interact with The All That's Holy: Blue Collar Podcast on Facebook and TwitterFollow and buy music from At The Speed of Darkness on Bandcamp and Instagram.

Keeping the alliteration theme going, Craig and Cody are joined by Kalie— a transgender woman serving as associate pastor and intern at a congregation in Decatur, GA. This is the first episode of a two-part conversation with Kalie— the highlights of this episode include:Pride Flags and marketing— is the embrace of Pride Month by corporate giants and professional sports leagues capitalism run amok? Merely a marketing tool? A sign of progress? What does it mean?!Transgender laws and resolutions popping up all over the country for debate in sessions of state legislatures, paricularly in the world of sports. Why now? Kalie discusses the impact these laws and the debates about them have on transgender kids.Kalie shares her experience as a closeted trans kid, and discusses the ways her experience is similar to trans kids today, and the many ways their experience is different from her own.Kalie talks about her background (being raised in an ultraconvservative family, in an ultraconservative religious tradition) affected her acceptance of herself and others in the LGBTQ+ community, and why it took so long to become inclusive of others who were like her.Kalie shares stories of when and where she finally felt safe in her own skin in a church congregation, and in her new city/community.AND, in an All That's Holy FIRST, boobs are mentioned!— not once, not twice, BUT THRICE!We concliude the episode with a mutual agreement: Kalie MUST join us again for an episode dedicated specifially to her insight and understanding of the Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 scriptures as it pertains to the full expression of human sexuality and identification. Look for part 2 SOON! Pertinent Links: here is a recently published article Kalie penned for Whosoever (an online magazine that serves as a resource for LGBT Christians)A book Kalie mentioned: Transforming: The Bible and the Lives of Transgender Christians Follow and interact with The All That's Holy: Blue Collar Podcast on Facebook and TwitterFollow and buy music from At The Speed of Darkness on Bandcamp and Instagram.

episode 51 the “b” episodeWe got a bit alliterative. We got hung up on the letter “b”. No, you did not miss the “a” episode. And with Code-man Cody and Crash-test Craig, we’ve got the letter “c” covered already. This week we stay with this wonderful letter and allow it to usher us into theological imagination, homiletical insights, as well as a helping us to further the missio dei (see if you can sense the missiological implications, let us know). This is the BBQ, Books, and Baseball episode BarbequeCody fires up his brand-new grill with his dog at his side. The audio carries all the sound effects of charcoal bags opening, a dog barking, the clattering of the coals pouring into the chute. BaseballFrom there, Craig get opinionated about how American’s fixation on home runs is ruining baseball and he calls for an alternative to the home-run derby – the base-hit derby. There’s a place for small ball! BooksWe are reading a lot of books. Some for fun, others for formation (transformation and information). We rattle on about some of the books we’ve been reading. Let us know if you have some suggestions. We are reading and keeping authors in mind for conversations on the podcast. Since we didn’t start with the letter “a”, we see no reason to follow this with the next letter in the alphabet. We will begin thinking about the next alliterative episode. We wonder what that letter might be? Follow and interact with The All That’s Holy: Blue Collar Podcast on Facebook and TwitterFollow and buy music from At The Speed of Darkness on Bandcamp and Instagram.

episode 50 Christine Longhurst: will worship “get back to normal”?Professor of Music and Worship, Dr. Christine Longhurst is our interview this week. However, Cody and Craig hadn’t talked for along time and had a lot of catching up to do. After a few minutes of us gabbing, if you want to hear some real wisdom, forward to 1:24 into the episode and listen to Christine Longhurst discuss her research, Worship in a Time of Pandemic: A Survey of Congregational Practices.We talk about her mid-pandemic research on the different ways congregations were responding at the time. Of particular interest was the section of the study which contemplated what, if any, effects or learnings churches had encountered would be carried on following the resumption of traditional worship. Would things actually “get back to normal”?You can read Christine Longhurst’s study by going to her worship resources blog. While, there, look around at the great selection of resources she has developed for liturgical and lectionary-based worship. Follow Christine at: re:Worship; and at Canadian Mennonite University. Dr. Longhurst’s research can be found at: http://pandemicworshipsurvey.blogspot.com/Follow and interact with The All That’s Holy: Blue Collar Podcast on Facebook and TwitterOur intro and concluding music is by At The Speed of Darkness. Follow on Instagram, and buy music from At The Speed of Darkness on Bandcamp.

After spending a number of years talking and thinking about Paul, Kurt Willems realized he wanted to talk about Jesus as the “center of faith.” Kurt’s first book, Echoing Hope: How the humanity or Jesus redeems our pain, provides reflections and exercises and practices to allow the reader to participate. Echoing Hope is published by WaterBrook.Follow Kurt on social media on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter; as well as on the site for Echoing Hope at echoinghope.com where you find bonus material to accompany the book. Follow and interact with The All That’s Holy: Blue Collar Podcast on Facebook and TwitterFollow and buy music from At The Speed of Darkness on Bandcamp and Instagram.

Cody introduces us to Anthony Smith, pastor, poet, and imaginaut in Salsbury, NC. Anthony introduces us to a lot of incredible perspectives on Black History Month. Linking Black History month to liturgical imagination and historical reflection, Anthony brings out some remarkable insights. Around the 40:00 minute mark, Cody and Craig learn about unlearning whiteness and about “would-be” white people. Also, for aspiring “allies” listen closely. Follow Anthony Smith at The Transformation Network and on social media on Facebook and Twitter Following our conversation with Anthony, Cody and Craig cover a lot of ground from Daft Punk and the Blind Boys of Alabama to the contract signing of Fernando Tatis; commemoration of the half-million lives lost in the Covid-19 pandemic and the hopes arising from Perseverance landing on Mars; the politics of (electrical) power in Texas; and concluding with listening to Common Hymnal’s medley of Rose Petals and Lift Every Voice as we recognize the one-year mark following the death of Amhaud Arbery. Follow and interact with The All That’s Holy: Blue Collar Podcast on Facebook and TwitterFollow and buy music from At The Speed of Darkness on Bandcamp and Instagram

episode 46: positively seinfeldianPositively, no negatively. Seinfeldian, seinfeldish, maybe even incorporating seinfeldianizationary rhetoric. If you are aware of the show, Seinfeld, you might now how the show was described: https://youtu.be/EQnaRtNMGMI In a wide-ranging conversation, Craig and Cody talked about something. A lot of somethings, even. But just nothing in particular. However we did discuss a new resource to watch as we are part-way through Black History Month. Beginning February 16 on PBS, The Black Church, “will explore the 400-year-old story of the Black church in America, the changing nature of worship spaces, and the men and women who shepherded them from the pulpit, the choir loft, and church pews.” Follow and interact with The All That’s Holy: Blue Collar Podcast on Facebook and TwitterFollow and buy music from At The Speed of Darkness on Bandcamp and Instagram

Episode 45: Tobin Miller Shearer(Before we get too far, my mic died. I sound terrible. Sorry for hurting your ears -Craig)Following up on last week’s conversation regarding Lent and Ash Wednesday, we get to premiere a wonderful song just in time for your Ash Wednesday time of worship. From Katie and Jacob Eckeberger, better known as, My Anchor Holds, is their newest song, Ashes. “We love Ash Wednesday and all it stands for. Communion is also one of the most meaningful sacraments for us. A couple years ago during Lent, we decided to write a song that highlights the beauty in these elemental, tangible acts of worship that more deeply connect us to one another and to God. It's a way of reminding us that our communities are healed from brokennes, and we are often more connected with God when we keep things simple. Bread, wine, water, earth - these basics will always help us find our way back.” Katie Eckeberger of My Anchor HoldsWe get to listen to this new song with our guest: scholar, professor, and consultant, Tobin Miller Shearer of the University of Montana (go Griz!), Professor of History; Director of African-American Studies. “We need to grasp something that’s real/the tangible life-giving God, who is here/Bread to sink our teeth into/and wine to wind us down/water to cleanse all we’ve been through/ ashes to keep us on solid ground/By the light of day/this or promise/so we’ll watch and wait/Disconnected, who we fail to find, God own presence, in another’s eyes/We all cause some pain, we all bear the wounds, of the walls we built, help us break them through….From dust we came and to dust we will return, this flesh and bone be ground and holy earth” Follow My Anchor Holds: on Facebook and Instagram, and at http://www.myanchorholds.net/Find My Anchor Holds also on Spotify, CD Baby, and iTunes. Tobin Miller Shearer Widerstand ConsultingUniversity of MontanaWhile Tobin links the events of January 6th and insurrection to the foundations of white supremacy. But, positively – hopefully – Tobin shares the deep practices and infrastructure of the church to transform people to become anti-racist and to dismantle white supremacy. Commitment to baptismal vows, spiritual formation, and Christian education are available tools the church has to engage in this work. Follow and check out Tobin’s work and writing: http://tobinmillershearer.blogspot.com WatchlistedAnd more in scholarly academic journals. Follow and interact with The All That’s Holy: Blue Collar Podcast on Facebook and TwitterFollow and buy music from At The Speed of Darkness on Bandcamp and Instagram

In keeping with our New Year’s Resolution to look into the upcoming lectionary themes at the beginning of each month, we take most of this episode to discuss themes, approaches, and a few resources for Ash Wednesday and Lent. Along the way, we talk about Denver’s need for more heroes as we listen to the newest record yet, by Five Iron Frenzy. Check out their website and YouTube page for more information. Lonesome for Heroes, and Renegades. Remember there’s already at least one hero in Denver, our friend Sarah Jackson at Casa de Paz!Somewhere we diverged and began thinking of the top songs of the rock era, as per Rolling Stone Magazine. Eventually we get around to discussing Ash Wednesday and Lent. Lenten thoughts,https://lectionary.library.vanderbilt.edu/lections.php?year=B&season=LentHere’s a list of links and resources in no particular order:Lent in a Box: https://michiganumc.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Lent-in-a-Box-compressed.pdf Devotions, by Mary Oliver https://www.docdroid.net/FekUA0P/devotions-pdf400 Souls https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/624334/four-hundred-souls-by-edited-by-ibram-x-kendi-and-keisha-n-blain/ Rolling Stone top 500 Songs (we may have been looking at an outdated list) https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/500-greatest-songs-of-all-time-151127/ Five Iron Frenzy Lonesome for Heroes https://youtu.be/bsATXeFhLU8 Renegades https://youtu.be/QbjRZt42bgk Follow and interact with The All That’s Holy: Blue Collar Podcast on Facebook and TwitterFollow and buy music from At The Speed of Darkness on Bandcamp and Instagram

Episode 43: Drew Hart In this episode, we have a conversation with Dr. Drew Hart, Assistant Professor of Theology at Messiah University, Mechanicsburg PA. Drew has written two books which both tell his own story as an African American in predominantly white spaces, as well as provide directions for discipleship to dismantle racism. Our conversation is wide ranging and covers Drew’s personal story as well as the direction of his professional work as a theologian, researcher, anti-racism leader, and social change practitioner. Find Drew’s books here:Trouble I've Seen: Changing the Way the Church Views RacismWho Will Be a Witness? Igniting Activism for God's Justice, Love, and DeliveranceOne of the projects Drew is participating in is the Inverse Podcast. Inverse describes itself this way, “Inverse Podcast belongs to the ones who are dissatisfied with the Bible being used to justify hatred.” One of the books mentioned in the conversation is After Whiteness, by Willie James Jennings. Stay in touch with Drew on social media, and through his personal website:https://drewgihart.com/ and on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter

Enjoying the Days of Christmas following Kate Bowler’s Facebook page - The Catalonian poopperPet Peeves about New Year's? Bringing in the New Year vs Ringing in the New YearBest year in review show: Death to 2020 on Netflix Rotten Tomatoes rating is only 29%, which tells you more about me, I suppose.Trailer https://youtu.be/veUqfcyZ_BoTheological issues for 2021?1. Does theological deconstructionism become a fad leading to fad agnosticism?2. As crucial as community is to faith formation, what difference might the pandemic make to people who are processing their deconstruction in isolation? Thinking about Stages of Faith by James Fowler, pg 293 I think it unlikely that person will develop faith beyond the Individuative-Reflective stage without committing themselves to some image or images of a faithful ultimate environment and shaping their lives in the human community so as to live in complementarity with it….The issue is finally not whether we and our companions on this globe become Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Taoists, Confucianist, or Christians, as important as that issue sis. The real question is, will there be faith on earth (Luke 18.8) and will it be good faith – faith sufficiently inclusive so as to counter and transcend the destructive henotheistic idolatries of national, ethnic, racial, and religious identifications and to bind us as a human community in covenantal trust and loyalty to each other and the Ground of our Being (pg 293). Does the human tendency to find community combine with deconstructionism to move toward polarities?Cody describes just preaching the Beatitudes becomes polemical, “why are you getting so political?”And we conclude with a description of an awesome birthday tradition. See you next year!

"Make these messes matter, make this chaos count"Cody and Craig discuss the Christmas star and Covid on eyelids, as well as a lot of other meaningless and profound things. Cody talks about story while Craig bakes bread. We discuss stories and Christmas preparations; Christmas and church life; and turns toward ranting about seasonal pet-peeves. Craig gets all worked up over the misuse of the Twelve Days of Christmas. Items from this episode:· The cost of the Twelve Days of Christmas by PNC Financial Services· NPR - John Henry Faulk's Christmas Story· SNL – Family Christmas and the Robe: https://youtu.be/FOVCtUdaMCU Songs for ending a year?· Imogen Heap - Last Night of an Empire: https://youtu.be/p_88sLiksOk · Judah & the Lion - Beautiful Anyway: https://youtu.be/RkdV5CTnx6M· The Avett Brothers – Victory: https://youtu.be/kzq5GmX90_E

We covered some of our favorite topics in this latest podcast. We talk about Lifetime TV, listen to singing livestock, discuss how we will continue to miss hockey, and the challenges racial injustice what we need to hear that arising from critical race theory, and the horror of being in a luxury hotel for several months if you are a millionaire (i.e. NBA athlete). Not only that but we discuss our some of our favorite Advent and Christmas songs. We want to find out you favorites, too. Drop us a line on Facebook to let us know your favorite Christmas songs from the categories of silly, sentimental, and sacred. Bonus points for one song that qualifies for all three categories!Songs we highlighted on this podcast: · Sillyo Relient K – I’m Getting Nuttin’ for Christmaso The Kinks – Father Christmas· Sentimentalo Trans-Siberian Orchestra – Christmas Canono Relient K – Merry Christmas, Here’s to Many More· Sacred o Caedman’s Call – It Came Upon a Midnight Clearo Conrad Gebel College Choir – Comfort, Comfort, O My PeopleFollow us on Facebook!