Podcasts about esops

Greg Hawks is a keynote speaker, author, and corporate culture specialist who challenges leaders and teams to Act Like an Owner. For more than 25 years, he has partnered with organizations across the country to reshape culture, deepen trust, and activate ownership mindsets.  Earlier in his career, Greg spent a decade as Executive Director of a nonprofit, leading teams through complex challenges and building environments where people contributed their best. That experience became the foundation for his work with companies of every size, from ESOPs and credit unions to Fortune 500 corporations and national associations.     In his upcoming book, Act Like an Owner: Five Unlocks for Creating Culture People Love and Results Leaders Need, Greg introduces vivid metaphors and frameworks such as Owners, Renters, Vandals, the Five Unlocks, and the 3D Plan for designing culture intentionally. Known for his energetic presence, distinctive language, and practical strategies, Greg equips executives and employees alike to re-engage, increase accountability, and spark growth.  Today, his work transforms workplaces into ecosystems where an ownership culture becomes the competitive advantage.  

Fresh off the sale of Eucalyptus to Hims & Hers in a $1.6 billion deal, co-founder Tim Doyle joins Equity Mates to unpack the journey from startup idea to global healthcare platform. He shares what it was really like in the deal room, the early lessons from Koala and digital marketing, how GLP-1 medications transformed the business, why Australia needs better startup infrastructure, and what founders can learn about risk, ambition and building at scale.In this episode:00:00 – The $1.6 billion exit and signing day chaos02:49 – Why Eucalyptus decided to sell10:31 – The origins of Eucalyptus and early startup lessons17:54 – Good businesses, bad businesses and portfolio thinking26:34 – Building telehealth amid industry criticism30:52 – How GLP-1s changed everything40:53 – AI, startups and the next technology wave47:50 – ESOPs, startup talent and the future of Australia's ecosystemETFs and Stocks mentioned: Meta Platforms (NASDAQ: META), Alphabet (NASDAQ: GOOGL), Eli Lilly (NYSE: LLY), Novo Nordisk (NYSE: NVO), Amazon (NASDAQ: AMZN), Netflix (NASDAQ: NFLX), Atlassian (NASDAQ: TEAM), Woolworths Group (ASX: WOW)———Want to get involved in the podcast? Record a voice note or send us a messageAnd come and join the conversation in the Equity Mates Facebook Discussion Group.———Want more Equity Mates? Across books, podcasts, video and email, however you want to learn about investing – we've got you covered.Keep up with the news moving markets with our daily newsletter and podcast (Apple | Spotify)We're particularly excited to share our latest show: Basis PointsListen to the podcast (Apple | Spotify)Watch on YouTubeRead the monthly email———Looking for some of our favourite research tools?Download our free Basics of ETF handbookOr our free 4-step stock checklistFind company information on TIKRResearch reports from Good ResearchTrack your portfolio with Sharesight———This podcast is intended for education and entertainment purposes only. Any advice is general advice and has not taken into account your personal financial circumstances. Before acting on general advice, you should consider if it is relevant to your needs. If unsure, speak to a financial professional. The host of this podcast and their guests may have positions in the companies mentioned. Equity Mates Media is part of the Betashares Group but maintains editorial independence and operates under Australian Financial Services licence 540697. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Chirag Taneja built GoKwik into 1 in 5 D2C checkouts in India. But the path there was a series of bets that didn't work, jobs that didn't last, and one moment in 2020 where the suitcases for Canada were packed and waiting in his living room.In Episode 12 of Unstarted, Chirag sits down with Avnish Bajaj to talk about what it actually means to keep tinkering, and when tinkering becomes the thing that holds you back.They get into: 1. What's really important to start a business: idea, capital, or knowledge? 2. Why choosing the right problem matters more than solving any problem 3. The Canada PR that almost happened (and the suitcases that are still in his house) 4. Probabilistic thinking, and why "generate choices" beats "make decisions" 5. Should you have a co-founder you don't already know? 6. How he thinks about ESOPs, the size of the pieUnstarted is a Z47 series. For founders, by founders. New episode every Thursday.Chapters 00:18 From the shop floor to a 1-in-5 D2C company01:35 A banker father, a single parent, and "play with intent"03:15 Why he chose Delhi College over IIT Delhi Civil05:30 The first Asian team to build a Formula race car06:25 The Maruti bet that landed him on the shop floor07:10 Q: Idea, capital, or knowledge — what matters most?08:50 How Bombay Shaving Company became the foundation of GoKwik09:35 The right problem matters more than the right solution10:55 Payments were broken in 2005. They were still broken in 2017.11:50 Pick your game: badminton or golf?13:20 The Canada PR, the suitcases, and the trip that never happened15:25 Generate choices before you make decisions17:50 When the tinkerer turns on himself19:15 Why "what worked then" stops working at 1-to-1022:45 Q: When should you have a co-founder?24:45 Why arranged co-founders are too risky28:30 Closing

In this episode of Journey to an ESOP and Beyond podcast,  Jason  and Mackenzie discuss the full lifecycle of an ESOP company. The conversation covers what changes in the first 90 days after an ESOP transaction, including new debt obligations, administrative responsibilities, and the importance of employee communication and engagement. The podcast also discusses how boards and leadership teams evolve over time, why committee structure matters, and how companies can successfully navigate the growing complexities of mature ESOPs. From early-stage growing pains to long-term planning challenges like diversification, repurchase obligation, and balancing opportunities between long-tenured employees and newer participants, this episode provides a practical and candid look at what it truly means to operate as an ESOP company for the long haul.

In this episode of the Journey to an ESOP podcast, Jason and Makenzie interview brothers Marc and John Farrell of to discuss their company's transition to employee ownership and the multi-generational legacy behind it. The Farrell brothers share the history of their 80-year family business, why they chose an ESOP over other transition options, and what they've learned in the early stages of becoming employee owned. From succession planning and leadership transitions to culture and communication, this conversation offers practical insight for business owners thinking intentionally about the future of their company. 

>> Get A Free Copy Of The Book (Big Idea To Bestseller): https://www.bigideatobestseller.com/free-book>> Book A Call With Our Team: https://write.bigideatobestseller.com/booking-page>> Step-By-Step Process To Becoming A Bestselling Author: https://write.bigideatobestseller.com/vsl-watch-pageIG: @jakekelferLinkedIn: @jakekelferDiscover how Bob Whalen uses ESOPs to help owners secure their future, reward staff, and protect their legacy. Learn to build a thriving, trust-based culture and a smarter succession plan. Tune in now to transform how you grow and exit your business.>>LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bob-whalen-4023a21b/>>BOOK LINK: https://a.co/d/00dCnIeR

We weren't aware of ESOPs before this conversation, and chances are you haven't heard of them either. Employee Stock Ownership Plans can drastically change how you run your business and transform the lives of your employees. Publix is one of the best examples of making their employees' lives better. Cashiers who may never make more than $20 an hour but stay there 20-30 years retire as multimillionaires because of employee ownership. Matt Middendorp helps business owners understand this transition option that most have never heard of. He started working at an ESOP company in college without knowing what it meant, but recognized the culture felt completely different from corporate retail. People collaborated and took ownership of problems instead of waiting for someone else to solve them. Matt Middendorp helps business owners explore this transition option. He started working at an ESOP company in college without knowing what it meant, but recognized the culture felt completely different from corporate retail. People collaborated and took ownership of problems instead of waiting for someone else to solve them. We talk about how ESOPs work, why they offer better tax benefits than other transitions, what makes a business a good fit, and how this approach solves problems for both owners looking to exit and employees building toward retirement.HighlightsHow employee ownership changes company culture when people take ownership of problems instead of waiting for others to solve them.Why ESOP companies grow faster than non-ESOP companies once employees have real financial stakes in success.The tax advantages that make ESOPs attractive for both sellers and companies compared to other transition options.What makes ESOP transactions collaborative instead of the combative due diligence process with private equity or strategic buyers.How long-term employees build wealth that solves the retirement gap many Americans face.Make sure to subscribe to Blue Collar BS where we talk about the real gaps between generations in blue collar work and what it takes to lead across different age groups in today's trades. Be the first to hear conversations like this that introduce options you didn't know existed and challenge what you thought was possible in business.Get in touch with Matt: WebsiteLinkedInPhone - 715-897-0879Get in touch with us:Check out the Blue Collar BS website.Steve Doyle:WebsiteLinkedInEmailBrad Herda:WebsiteLinkedInEmailThis podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Podtrac - https://analytics.podtrac.com/privacy-policy-gdrpOP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

What does it take to create an ownership culture when most employees don't literally own the business? In this episode, Kevin talks with Greg Hawks about the mindset shifts leaders need to make to help people act like owners by bringing more of their heart, head, and hands to work. Greg explains how his framework of owners, renters, and vandals influences behavior and why leaders must pay close attention to the environments they create. He shares how organizations unintentionally produce renters by limiting contribution, tolerating toxic behaviors, and failing to help people see the bigger picture. They also discuss why the desire for responsibility is often driven by more than money, how leaders can broaden the circle, so people think beyond their own "room" in the house, and why shaping a culture of trust, contribution, and shared perspective is one of the most important responsibilities any leader has. Listen For 00:00 Why Ownership Mindset Matters (Beyond Financial Ownership) 00:38 Creating an Ownership Culture 02:54 The Big Idea: Why Acting Like an Owner Changes Everything 03:42 What "Ownership" Really Means at Work and in Life 05:20 The 3 Workplace Mindsets: Owners, Renters, Vandals 06:20 How Each Mindset Shows Up (Heart, Head, and Hands) 07:21 The Real Problem: Why Vandals Drive Disengagement 08:23 The Tipping Point Strategy: Reduce Vandals, Grow Owners 09:01 Should You Fix or Remove Toxic Employees? 10:11 Why Organizations Tolerate "Vandals" 12:08 Leadership Responsibility vs. Labeling People 14:05 How Leaders Accidentally Create "Renters" 14:35 The Power of Contribution in Building Ownership 16:32 "Reach for Responsibility" – The Key to Ownership 23:05 Breaking Silos: Widening Perspective Across Teams 28:03 Final Leadership Insight: Culture Shapes Everything Greg's Story: Greg Hawks is the author of Act Like an Owner: Five Unlocks for Creating Culture People Love and Results Leaders Need. He is a keynote speaker and corporate culture specialist who challenges leaders and teams to Act Like an Owner. For more than 25 years, he has partnered with organizations across the country to reshape culture, deepen trust, and activate ownership mindsets. Earlier in his career, Greg spent a decade as Executive Director of a nonprofit, leading teams through complex challenges and building environments where people contributed their best. That experience became the foundation for his work with companies of every size, from ESOPs and credit unions to Fortune 500 corporations and national associations. Known for his energetic presence, distinctive language, and practical strategies, Greg equips executives and employees alike to re-engage, increase accountability, and spark growth. https://www.greghawks.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/ghawks https://www.instagram.com/greghawks/?hl=en Looking to Develop Stronger Leaders? Want help developing the leaders in your organization? Reach out to explore how the Kevin Eikenberry Group can support your team. info@kevineikenberry.com  Book Recommendations Act Like an Owner: Five Unlocks for Creating Culture People Love and Results Leaders Need by Greg Hawks Right Kind of Wrong: How the Best Teams Use Failure to Succeed by Amy C. Edmondson Like this? Compassionate Accountability with Nate Regier How Leaders Can Inspire Accountability with Michael Timms Leave a Review If you liked this conversation, we'd be thrilled if you'd let others know by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Here's a quick guide for posting a review. Review on Apple: https://remarkablepodcast.com/itunes    Join Our Community If you want to view our live podcast episodes, hear about new releases, or chat with others who enjoy this podcast join one of our communities below. Join the Facebook Group Join the LinkedIn Group  

This evening, we assess market movements with Otto1890, we examine the resilience and performance of gold in the second quarter with the World Gold Council, we outline ESOP recommendations aimed at empowering workers with the Competition Commission, we discuss the challenges entrepreneurs face due to late government payments with Small Business Institute, and in our Executive Lounge, we find out how finance and faith helped shape an entrepreneurial journey with the Regenesys Investment Fund. SAfm Market Update - Podcasts and live stream

In this episode, Jason Miller speaks with Steve Baker of The Great Game of Business about the critical role of financial literacy in building successful employee ownership and ESOP cultures. They explore why ownership alone does not automatically create an ownership mindset and why education is essential for helping employees understand how businesses actually work. Steve shares practical insights on how organizations can strengthen engagement, accountability, and performance by teaching teams to think and act like owners through a deeper understanding of financials and business performance. The conversation highlights a key takeaway for ESOP companies and leadership teams: financial literacy is the foundation that connects employee ownership to real behavioral change and long-term business success.

In recognition of April as Financial Literacy Month, this episode explores an important question: what happens when employees are given ownership but don't fully understand its value? Jason and Makenzie dive into the critical role financial literacy plays in helping employee-owners make the most of their ownership stake. From understanding equity to building confidence in financial decision-making, this conversation highlights how empowering employees with knowledge can unlock the full potential of employee ownership.

For many family business owners, the succession question is more complicated than it looks — especially when some family members want to stay involved, others don't, or there's simply no heir apparent willing or able to take the reins. An Employee Stock Ownership Plan can bring remarkable clarity to exactly these situations. Kelly O. Finnell, J.D., CLU, AIF®, President of EFS ESOP Consultants and one of the nation's foremost ESOP authorities, joins Pat, Walter, and Corby to explore how ESOPs can serve as a powerful and often underutilized tool in family business succession planning. With more than 40 years helping business owners design and execute ESOPs — and author of the preeminent guide The ESOP Coach: Using ESOPs in Ownership Succession Planning — Kelly brings unmatched depth to this conversation. He covers the general parameters for when an ESOP makes sense, the specific benefits in a family business context, how ESOPs can minimize taxes while maximizing shareholder legacy, and why owners with no clear successor should be looking hard at this option.Conversations that move you closer to a regret-proof exit. Subscribe To The Channel By Clicking HERE!Learn more about Pat and Walter: https://ennislp.com/about CONNECT ON SOCIAL MEDIA:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOwUmJP3Fm4rYbRAQhYQkpg ExitReadiness Blog: https://ennislp.com/read-our-blogFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/exitreadinessWebsite: Ennislp.com#PatEnnis #WalterDeyhle #ExitReadinessDISCLAIMER: The information in this presentation is provided as education only. Neither the presenter nor ENNIS Legacy Partners is engaged to render legal, accounting, or other professional services. Consult a qualified professional for advice specific to your situation. ENNIS Legacy Partners assumes no legal liability for any loss related to information contained in this presentation.

What's the right first question when an owner starts exploring an ESOP? It may not be “Can my company do one?” In this episode, we unpack why technical possibility and strategic fit are not the same thing. Using the metaphor of the kitchen in a family home, we explore what owners are really trying to preserve, strengthen, and pass on through transition — and why an ESOP works best when it supports the fundamentals rather than distracting from them. A thoughtful conversation for owners considering employee ownership, succession, continuity, and legacy.

In this episode of Poised for Exit, Steve Storkan, Executive Director at The Employee Ownership Expansion Network, discusses how employee ownership is gaining traction as a business exit strategy. He shares the growth of employee ownership across the U.S. and explains why more business owners are considering it as part of their transition planning.Steve breaks down how increased awareness, new sources of capital, and impact investing are making employee ownership more accessible. He also highlights research showing the significant wealth created for employees through these models, along with the flexibility and legacy benefits for business owners.This conversation explores the different forms of employee ownership, including ESOPs, and what makes a company a good fit. Steve also emphasizes the importance of having the right advisors and ensuring strong financial feasibility when considering this path.This episode offers a practical look at how employee ownership can support both successful exits and long-term business continuity. Connect with Steve Storkan hereLearn more about The Employee Ownership Expansion Network hereConnect with Julie Keyes, Keyestrategies LLCFounder, Consultant, Author, Pod-caster and Instructor

The importance of early succession planning, cannot be overstated for business owners. Tim Staton and Byron McFarland emphasize that starting the process as soon as possible—ideally years in advance—makes a huge difference. Many owners procrastinate until their seventies, but building an exit strategy early helps you get paid properly and maximize the sale value of a business. Byron suggests a three-year lead time for a solid plan that ensures the owner gets compensated, while committing to seven years can secure the full value of a business. This proactive mindset lets owners envision life after the business, reducing delays and emotional hurdles when selling a business.   A common pitfall is overestimating your company's worth, often because owners enjoy a lifestyle funded by pre-tax dollars. Normalizing those expenses reveals the true financial picture and impacts how to evaluate value of a business. Key methods include looking at multiples of EBITDA, discounted cash flow, or comparable sales—far beyond just the book value of a business or simple asset tallies. Owners often hear "four times EBITDA" as a benchmark, which might be the ceiling for smaller businesses relying heavily on bank financing. Larger buyers, like private equity firms, can offer higher multiples (six to eight times EBITDA) due to their capital structure.   When considering exit options, owners typically have three paths: selling to a management team (internal buyout), to an external buyer (strategic, financial, or owner-operator), or via an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP). Selling to management demands heavy preparation to create "bankable buyers"—employees with an ownership mindset, strong emotional intelligence, and the ability to handle stress, personal guarantees, and risks like pledging assets. These buyers must be groomed in finance, risk management, and HR to qualify for buying a business loan, often through SBA-backed options or bank financing in phased transactions. External buyers frequently pay premium multiples because they inject more equity. ESOPs provide timing flexibility but add complexity.   Buying and selling a business involves significant risks on both sides. For owners, risks of business ownership extend into the exit phase, including financial exposure from personal guarantees and the emotional toll of letting go—founders often tie their identity so deeply to the company that they experience breakdowns or last-minute "red zone fumbles," finding excuses to back out even when the deal benefits them financially. Potential internal buyers may walk away once they fully understand these commitments.   To minimize risks and boost the sale value, engage key employees early. Share your vision for the company's future to foster loyalty and prevent talent loss (as in cases where key staff departed after a surprise sale announcement, slashing the price by 25%). Make employees "heroes" in due diligence by highlighting their expertise—this lowers buyer-perceived risk and can increase the final price. Discuss aspirations with your team to align goals and build buy-in.   The steps to selling a business generally include early valuation, cleaning up financials, assembling a deal team (brokers, advisors, attorneys), identifying buyers, negotiating terms, and handling due diligence and closing. Preparation is key—whether selling a business near me locally or to a broader market, thorough planning ensures a smoother transition.   In this episode, Byron McFarland dives deep into the nuances of business succession planning, stressing preparation, creating bankable successors, and addressing the financial and emotional challenges of when selling a business. He reminds us that people are at the heart of any organization—understanding their needs and risks is essential for a successful exit and long-term value.   Connect with Byron Website: https://www.themcfarlandgroup.com/ LinkedIn: www.linkedIn.com/in/byronkmcfarland Website: https://thebankablebuyer.com/     Connect With Tim Website: timstatingtheobvious.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/timstatingtheobvious YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHfDcITKUdniO8R3RP0lvdw Instagram: @TimStating TikTok: @timstatingtheobvious LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-staton-04b41a271/ SKOOL Community: https://www.skool.com/timstatingtheobvious-9537/about?ref=de9c7e65d8ba4eeabc1a8eea413c125b

In this episode of The Matt Feret Show, Matt Feret sits down with ESOP consultant Matt Middendorp to explore how employee ownership is reshaping the way people think about work, wealth, and career fulfillment—especially in midlife. Moving beyond traditional conversations about retirement or business exits, the discussion examines Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOPs) as an alternative model that aligns employee success with company performance. Middendorp shares real-world insights into how employee-owned companies foster stronger cultures, higher retention, and long-term financial security while offering business owners a legacy-driven transition strategy outside of private equity or layoffs. Together, they unpack why so many professionals have never heard of ESOPs, what employee ownership teaches us about purpose and identity at work, and how individuals at any career stage can rethink success, stability, and the value they help create.The Matt Feret Show is about thriving in midlife, retirement, and beyond. Each week, Matt shares smart conversations on Medicare, Social Security, retirement planning, health, wealth, wellness, caregiving, and life after 50.Explore more episodes and sign up for The Matt Feret Newsletter: TheMattFeretShow.comNeed Medicare help? Book a no-obligation consultation: BrickhouseAgency.comWatch full episodes on YouTube: The Matt Feret ShowSubscribe on Apple, Spotify, or YouTube for more insights on wealth, wisdom, and wellness in retirement. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of the Foundations of Transition series, Jason and Makenzie focus on the theme of Communication, Culture & Trust, exploring how these elements shape the success of an ESOP transaction. Each workshop-style conversation in this series is designed to help business owners think more intentionally about the future of their company and the role they play in shaping it. This episode encourages owners to consider not just the structure of a transition, but the human side of the process. Jason and Makenzie discuss why clear communication, a healthy company culture, and strong trust between leadership and employees are essential to building momentum and confidence throughout an ESOP journey. Through practical insights, they unpack how intentional communication and cultural alignment can reduce uncertainty and help create a smoother, more successful transition for everyone involved.

(0:00) Intro (1:40) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel (2:26) Start of interview (3:19) Eric's origin story (5:00) The Lean Startup Journey (10:23) About The Long-Term Stock Exchange (18:00) Governance and Eric's New Book Incorruptible (24:14) On Governance in Startups vs. Public Companies and so-called "best practices." "One of the key ideas in the book is that it's always too early until it's too late." (28:37) Why the title Incorruptible. How to become an incorruptible force for good in the world. (33:15) The board members' sacred obligation. The call for a director's oath. (34:40) The concepts of Financial Gravity and Career Equity. "The force that no one controls, but everyone obeys." "The number one thing CEOs notice before and after the IPO: every employee is looking at the stock ticker every day." (41:38) Innovations in AI Governance (OpenAI, Anthropic, etc) "A new old idea" (44:36) On the Public Benefit Corporation (PBC) structure.  (46:25) The Case for New Governance Structures. "The shareholder primacy debate has become completely divorced from the actual material interests of shareholders." The example of Costco. (52:45) On Dual-Class Share Structures. "I don't think emperor for life is a great political system" "[The] standard governance [model] has to be really bad for dictator for life to be an improvement." "I'm interested in trying to create what I call the architecture of institutional longevity. What would it take to create organizations that can endure for decades or even centuries? In order to do that, by definition, we have to find ways to encode the ethos." (56:51) Mission-Locked Constellations. "Structures that involve many different entities that are locked together to act as a bit of an immune system against corruption." "The spiritual holding company: a constellation of multiple entities where some entity has the responsibility of being at the center to provide basically mission protection as a service to the for-profit entities under its purview." (1:01:07) The Novo Nordisk story. *reference to the Acquired podcast episode. (1:07:10) Books that have greatly influenced his life: The Machine that Changed the World, by James P. Womack, Daniel T. Jones, and Daniel Roos (1990) Toyota Production System, by Taiichi Ohno (2001) Toyota Way, by Jeffrey Liker (2003) Dune, by Frank Herbert (1965) The Dawn of Everything, by David Graeber and David Wengrow (2021) The Enlightened Capitalists, by James O'Toole (2019) (1:12:20) His mentors. Steve Blank, Ken Duda, Maliz Beams, Dario Amodei, Brian Chesky, Matthew Prince, Sid Sijbrandij, Dustin Moskovitz, James Reinhart, Todd Park.  (1:14:00) Quotes that he thinks of often or lives her life by "Nothing real can be threatened, and nothing unreal exists" (from A Course in Miracles) (1:15:25) An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves (1:16:08) The living person he most admires Eric Ries is the Creator of the Lean Startup method and author of The Lean Startup, he has spent two decades reshaping how companies are built and managed. He is also the founder of the Long-Term Stock Exchange (LTSE) and host of The Eric Ries Show podcast. More info on his latest book Incorruptible here. You can follow Evan on social media at:X: @evanepsteinLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/__To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/__Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

This week, Jason and Makenzie cover what could go wrong in an ESOP transaction. From concerns about overpaying for shares to the burden of debt service, unrealistic projections, and the momentum that can build during negotiations, this episode unpacks the risks that can make an ESOP feel “off track” and what causes those outcomes. Jason and Makenzie explore the difference between a deal that is truly broken and one that simply needs course correction, offering an honest look at the warning signs, human dynamics, and importance of sustainable structure.

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie walk listeners through the step-by-step process of an ESOP transaction, breaking down what can often feel like a complex and overwhelming journey into a clear, approachable roadmap. They cover common questions business owners often ask at the start of the process, including: How do I know if my company is a good fit for an ESOP? and who should be involved? From evaluating readiness to understanding the key players involved, Jason and Makenzie share practical insights on who to engage first, what steps to expect, and how to navigate the early stages of exploring employee ownership with confidence.

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie explore what is often one of the most challenging roles in an ESOP transition: frontline management. Immediately after a transition to employee ownership, frontline managers often take on the greatest level of responsibility as they help employees navigate change while keeping the business moving forward. Jason and Makenzie unpack six key threads that can help frontline managers better support their teams and guide the company through a successful transition. 

Ted speaks with Rich Gioia, co-founder of Gioia Capital and Managing Director of Lazear Capital, an investment banking firm specializing in ESOP transactions. Rich shares his path from leaving a legal career to acquiring and growing businesses in the lower middle market, eventually discovering the advantages of Employee Stock Ownership Plans while selling one of his companies. The conversation breaks down how ESOPs work as a business succession strategy, including how owners can sell their company while maintaining control, receiving liquidity, and potentially eliminating capital gains taxes through unique provisions in the tax code. Rich explains the structure of ESOP transactions, including bank financing, seller notes, and equity warrants, while demystifying common misconceptions that employee ownership is purely altruistic or requires employees to contribute capital. Ted and Rich also explore why ESOPs are particularly relevant for contractors, builders, and other owner-operated businesses where private equity interest may be limited. They discuss the importance of succession planning, preserving legacy, and aligning incentives between ownership and employees. The episode highlights how ESOPs can create a win-win structure—providing business owners with liquidity and tax advantages while giving employees a meaningful ownership stake and incentive to drive long-term success. TOPICS DISCUSSED 01:10 Introduction & Meeting Rich Gioia at Sundance 02:45 Rich's Background: Lawyer to Entrepreneur 04:45 Building Companies in the Lower Middle Market 06:40 Selling a Business & Discovering ESOPs 09:00 Common Misconceptions About ESOPs 11:20 Why ESOP Exits Can Outperform Traditional Sales 13:30 How ESOP Financing Works 16:00 Breaking Down a Real ESOP Transaction Example 19:00 Tax Advantages & Section 1042 Explained 22:30 Employee Ownership Without Financial Risk 24:40 Why More Businesses Don't Consider ESOPs 27:30 Legacy, Ownership & Selling to Employees 30:00 Incentives, Productivity & Employee Alignment 32:20 Exit Planning for Contractors & Builders 35:00 Private Equity vs. ESOP Outcomes 37:40 Preserving Company Culture & Legacy 40:10 ESOPs as a Succession Strategy 42:30 Final Thoughts & How to Learn More About ESOPs   CONNECT WITH GUEST Rich Gioia Website LinkedIn KEY QUOTES FROM EPISODE “You as a business owner could sell your company effectively tax-free, tax-deferred and ultimately eliminated.” “Your employees don't contribute any cash in an ESOP.” “There are no personal guarantees with that and the employees aren't raising or contributing any capital.”

In this episode of the Foundations of Transition Series, Jason and Makenzie focus on the theme of Strategic Direction, asking the critical question: What direction are we moving in, and how are we getting there? Each workshop-style conversation in this series is designed to help business owners think more intentionally about the future of their company and the role they play in shaping it. This episode challenges owners to step back and “look up” from the day-to-day demands of running a business to look ahead. Jason and Makenzie discuss why better questions lead to better strategy, and how defining what you hope to gain from the future of the company can lead to a plan that is both realistic and effective. Through practical insights, they explore how thoughtful strategic direction creates clarity, momentum, and a path forward for both the owner and the organization.

What if you could create a buyer for your company without selling to private equity or a strategic acquirer? In this episode of Grow With Purpose, Joey Brannon sits down with Jason Miller of Berman Hopkins to demystify Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOPs) so you can understand how employee ownership works as a real exit option before ruling it out.IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:･What it means to “create a market” for the shares of your privately held company･How fair market value standards shape ESOP negotiations･Why leadership communication determines whether employee ownership succeedsLEADERSHIP GUIDE:･178 - Demystifying ESOPsRESOURCES & LINKS:･ Journey to an ESOP Podcast･ Berman Hopkins･ Jason Miller LinkedInCONNECT WITH AXIOM STRATEGIC:･Website･LinkedIn･Instagram･Facebook･YouTubeHELP US IMPROVE THE SHOW:

Selling your business to a new buyer isn't the only way to exit. What if you could transition ownership to your employees, rewarding their hard work while securing your legacy?  In this episode, Chris Fredericks, CEO at Empowered Ventures, discusses Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOPs) and how they offer a powerful alternative to traditional exit strategies. Chris explores the advantages of ESOPs and other employee ownership models, such as co-ops and Employee Ownership Trusts (EOTs). He shares examples of how these models help businesses thrive and create lasting value for both owners and their teams. If you're considering your exit options, this episode offers valuable insights into the potential of employee ownership.   In this episode, you will: Learn the nuances of ESOPs, Co-ops, and EOTs for employee ownership Understand the process of transitioning a company to employee ownership Learn how to navigate the legal and compliance aspects of ESOPs   Highlights: (00:00) Meet Chris Fredericks (02:35) ESOP vs Co-Op vs EOT (05:17) Succession and transition to ESOP (08:34) Life after the ESOP (19:34) Deal sourcing through brokers vs direct outreach (23:09) The pressure & culture shift of employee ownership (24:55) Scaling ESOPs: employee-led demand & policy momentum   Resources: For past guests, please visit https://www.defendersofbusinessvalue.com/   Follow Chris: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frederickschris/  Learn more about Empowered Ventures: https://empowered.ventures/  Follow Ed: Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edmysogland/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/defendersofbusinessvalue/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bvdefenders

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie sit down with Steve Thornton and Eric Harris of Monte Sano Research Corporation (MSRC) to discuss the company's evolution to employee ownership. They reflect on their company's journey to an ESOP and how succession was intentionally embodied well before the formal transition, and the cultural foundations that made ESOP alignment a natural fit. The conversation also explores how employee ownership can bridge founders to successors, along with candid advice for leaders considering this path, including preparation, key decisions, and lessons learned along the way.

In this episode, Makenzie and Jason explore how anyone, regardless of title or department, can create enterprise value from their seat in the company. In an employee-owned environment, revenue generation isn't limited to sales roles; it's a mindset rooted in ownership. They break down how every function contributes to profitability and long-term value, and how both extroverts and introverts can leverage their unique strengths to drive impact. If you've ever wondered how your role ties to the bigger financial picture, this conversation will challenge you to think and act like an owner.

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie dive into everyone's favorite word — equity — and examine what it really means beyond payouts and financial rewards. They explore how equity extends far beyond cash, defining it instead through fairness, ownership value, and property such as home equity. They also explore the responsibilities, risks, and long-term mindset that come with equity ownership, highlighting how equity represents control, alignment, and time horizon. Whether you are a business owner or simply curious about how equity works, this episode delivers a thoughtful perspective on what it truly means to have a stake in something — and why that stake matters.

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie continue “The Foundations of Transition” series by highlighting the courage it takes to transition a company and its leadership. Each workshop-style episode builds on the last, offering practical guidance to help business owners move forward with confidence. This second foundation explores what should be included in a thoughtful transition plan and how leaders can focus on long-term vision rather than falling into fear. Jason and Makenzie discuss how intentional planning, clear direction, and courageous decision-making can shape a successful future for both owners and their organizations.

Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOPs) are often talked about—but rarely understood. For many business owners, they represent one of the most powerful (and misunderstood) succession and liquidity strategies available today. In this episode, Adam sits down with Kelly Finnell, one of the nation's foremost ESOP experts, to break down how ESOPs really work, why they offer unique tax advantages, and when they may outperform traditional exits like private equity or third-party sales. Whether you're a business owner thinking about succession—or an advisor guiding clients through exit planning—this conversation delivers clarity without the jargon. Episode Timestamps 00:00 – Introduction to ESOPs and Kelly Finnell's background 02:00 – What an ESOP is (and why it's both a succession strategy and a retirement plan) 05:00 – How ESOPs create liquidity and operate tax-free 07:30 – The biggest benefits of ESOPs for employees 09:00 – Owner tax advantages, including Section 1042 deferral 11:00 – Who is a good candidate for an ESOP? (financial + cultural fit) 14:30 – ESOPs vs. private equity and strategic buyers 17:00 – Common myths and misconceptions about ESOPs 19:30 – Why ESOPs are growing rapidly right now 22:00 – "Compassionate capitalism" and preserving company legacy 25:00 – Final advice for business owners and advisors considering ESOPs Key Takeaways

In this episode, Jason explores the feeling of being dropped into a class you never signed up for; where something important is happening and you didn't realize you were expected to know it. He discusses how fear and overwhelm during business transitions often come from delayed awareness, not a lack of effort, and reframes what readiness really means in the context of succession planning and ESOP transitions.

In this episode, Jason sits down with Pete Schuler, Senior Vice President and Head of Consulting at Blue Ridge, who brings more than 30 years of experience in the ESOP industry. As a trusted advisor on ESOP transactions and compliance, Pete has worked across all stages of the ESOP lifecycle and offers a deep, practical perspective on what makes these transactions successful. Jason and Pete dive into the key “R's” of an ESOP transaction, unpacking critical considerations around plan design, compliance, and transaction readiness. Drawing on Pete's extensive experience advising companies, working alongside investment banks, and leading complex ESOP projects, this conversation provides valuable insights for business owners and advisors navigating ESOP planning and execution.

An employer stock option plan can be a valuable company benefit as a compliment to your employees' retirement savings, but it can also be a powerful tool to facilitate a business owner's exit strategy. Nathan discusses the ins and outs of ESOPs, who they may be appropriate for, and why an employer may choose sell their company to their employees rather than on the open market. Also, on our MoneyTalk Moment in Financial History, Nathan and Daniel take us through the complicated legacy of one of the Industrial Revolution's greatest contributors, Henry Ford. Host: Nathan Beauvais, CFP®, CIMA®, CPWA®; Special Guest: Daniel Sowa; Air Date: 1/14/2026. Have a question for the hosts? Leave a message on the MoneyTalk Hotline at (401) 587-SOWA and have your voice heard live on the air!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode, Makenzie Wirth interviews Joe Jones, Audit Partner at Berman Hopkins. As lead of the firm's Construction Advisory Services Team, Joe shares his perspective on the recent trend of construction companies transitioning ownership to ESOPs. From audit considerations, valuation risks, bonding, backlog quality, governance, and jobsite culture, Makenzie and Joe provide practical advice for construction owners considering employee ownership.

From process consultant to helping businesses increase their enterprise value through systematization, Adi Klevit shares proven strategies for documenting operations, preparing companies for successful exits, and ensuring post-merger integrations don't fall apart. In this episode of the DealQuest Podcast, host Corey Kupfer sits down with Adi Klevit, founder of Business Success Consulting Group, who has spent over 30 years helping entrepreneurs bring order to their operations. Adi hosts the Systems Simplified podcast and contributes articles to Inc.com. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN: In this episode, you'll discover how documented processes dramatically increase enterprise value when selling a business, why buyers light up when they realize they're purchasing a system rather than just a company, and the concept of "unconscious competence" that keeps valuable knowledge trapped in entrepreneurs' heads. Adi shares how to extract hidden systems behind your natural talents, why entrepreneurs resist systematization even though it creates freedom, and how to get teams to actually follow documented processes. You'll also learn how process documentation complements entrepreneurial operating systems like EOS and Scaling Up, what breaks down in post-merger integration when documentation doesn't exist, and why AI is a powerful tool but cannot replace human judgment. ADI'S JOURNEY: Adi started a tutoring business in 9th grade that grew entirely through referrals, teaching her early lessons about balancing promotion with delivery. After working as VP of Marketing at an international consulting company, she launched her own firm when partnership wasn't available. As a general business consultant, she kept telling clients they needed documented processes, and nothing would happen. Finally, she offered to do it for them, and a niche was born. KEY INSIGHTS: A painting company owner documented all their processes with Adi's help. When he went to sell, the buyer's eyes lit up because he realized he wasn't just buying a painting company. He was buying a complete system and operation. On the flip side, Adi recently got a call from someone who bought a company with 60 employees and nothing documented. If everyone quit tomorrow, he would have no idea how to run what he just purchased. EOS implementers are Adi's biggest referral source because operating systems tell you that you need documented processes but don't create them for you. Adi's firm serves as a fractional process team that does the implementation work entrepreneurs keep pushing off. Too many people think deals are done when documents are signed. Adi works with companies that grow through acquisition, helping them bring new employees up to speed on unified systems. Even when both companies have good systems independently, those systems differ. Integration work determines whether the combined entity functions as one or remains two disconnected operations. For Adi, freedom means the ability to create. The systems she builds generate the freedom she values. Perfect for business owners preparing for exits, entrepreneurs struggling to extract knowledge from their heads, and acquirers concerned about post-merger integration. FOR MORE ON THIS EPISODE: https://www.coreykupfer.com/blog/adiklevit FOR MORE ON ADI KLEVIT: https://www.bizsuccesscg.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/adiklevit/ https://www.successreplicator.com FOR MORE ON COREY KUPFER https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreykupfer/ https://www.coreykupfer.com/ Corey Kupfer is an expert strategist, negotiator, and dealmaker. He has more than 35 years of professional deal-making and negotiating experience. Corey is a successful entrepreneur, attorney, consultant, author, and professional speaker. He is deeply passionate about deal-driven growth. He is also the creator and host of the DealQuest Podcast. Get deal-ready with the DealQuest Podcast with Corey Kupfer, where like-minded entrepreneurs and business leaders converge, share insights and challenges, and success stories. Equip yourself with the tools, resources, and support necessary to navigate the complex yet rewarding world of dealmaking. Dive into the world of deal-driven growth today! Episode Highlights with Timestamps: [00:00] - Introduction: Adi Klevit's journey from childhood entrepreneur to process consultant [09:13] - Starting a tutoring business in 9th grade and learning about business cycles [15:22] - How passion for systematization developed through frustration with clients [18:31] - The painting company story: Buyers purchasing systems, not just businesses [22:04] - Corey's business development system he didn't know he had [26:37] - Getting teams to actually follow documented processes [34:05] - How process documentation complements EOS and other operating systems [38:56] - Post-merger integration: Where good deals go to die [46:26] - Which business areas prove most problematic in integration [51:03] - Why AI cannot replace human judgment in process work [52:56] - Freedom as the ability to create through systems Guest Bio: Adi Klevit is passionate about helping businesses bring order to their operations. With over 30 years of experience as a process consultant, executive, and entrepreneur, she is an expert at making the complex simple. Adi founded Business Success Consulting Group after recognizing that entrepreneurs needed someone to actually do the documentation work they kept putting off. She has been featured on numerous podcasts and delivered many webinars and live workshops sharing her insights on systemizing a business. She hosts the Systems Simplified podcast and publishes a weekly blog, with articles appearing in Inc.com. Known for turning what some see as a dry topic into something fun and practical, Adi shows audiences how to document, implement, and maintain systems that really work. Host Bio: Corey Kupfer is an expert strategist, negotiator, and dealmaker with more than 35 years of professional deal-making and negotiating experience. Corey is a successful entrepreneur, attorney, consultant, author, and professional speaker deeply passionate about deal-driven growth. He is the creator and host of the DealQuest Podcast. Show Description: Do you want your business to grow faster? The DealQuest Podcast with Corey Kupfer reveals how successful entrepreneurs and business leaders use strategic deals to accelerate growth. From large mergers and acquisitions to capital raising, joint ventures, strategic alliances, real estate deals, and more, this show discusses the full spectrum of deal-driven growth strategies. Get the confidence to pursue deals that will help your company scale faster. Related Episodes: Episode 337 - Mastering Post-Merger Integration with Jonathan Gardner: Explore how integration teams need authority and cross-functional participation to succeed after deals close. Episode 330 - From Operator to Owner: Business Freedom with Pete Mohr: Discover why being exit-ready creates freedom whether or not you plan to sell. Episode 341 - Avoid Major Scaling Mistakes with Robert Levin: Learn how sustainable growth strategies prevent the chaos that makes systematization essential. Episode 325 - ESOPs as Exit Strategy with Kelly Finnell: Understand alternative exit structures that preserve company culture and employee relationships. Episode 332 - The Art of Lucrative Exits and Business Growth with John Martinka: Master the fundamentals of preparing businesses for successful exits. Episode 333 - How to Franchise Your Business the Right Way with Greg Mohr: Learn how documented systems enable business replication and growth. Follow DealQuest Podcast: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreykupfer/ Website: https://www.coreykupfer.com/ Follow Adi Klevit: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adiklevit/ Company: https://www.bizsuccesscg.com E-Book: https://www.successreplicator.com Keywords/Tags: business systematization, process documentation, enterprise value, exit preparation, post-merger integration, unconscious competence, scaling businesses, EOS implementation, operational systems, business processes, M&A integration, due diligence, business valuation, entrepreneur freedom, knowledge transfer, team training, business operations, deal readiness, exit strategy, business consulting

In this episode of the Journey to an ESOP podcast, Jason and Makenzie kick off a new series that will continue throughout 2026: The Foundations of Transition, a workshop-style series focused on owner readiness. Each episode builds on the last, creating a practical framework for navigating ownership transition. The first foundation explores owner readiness and identity, helping owners define their vision for ownership and the future of their business. The conversation centers on identity: how your values and beliefs shape who you are as an owner, guide your decisions, and influence the life of your company. Understanding identity is critical, as it affects not only who your business is today, but also what it becomes after transition. 

Season 7 begins with a simple truth: change is inevitable, but being unprepared is optional. In this opening monologue, Jason introduces Continuity Through Change and outlines what this season will explore: leadership under motion, foundations that hold through transition, and the often-ignored emotional mechanics behind ownership decisions. 

In this episode of the Journey to an ESOP podcast, Jason sits down with Danny Massey, Head of Strategy and Communications for Expanding ESOPs--a national coalition working to dramatically broaden employee ownership across the United States. Danny shares how he became involved in the ESOP world, and the conversation dives into the powerful benefits of employee ownership, why it matters now more than ever, and how expanding access can create lasting impact for workers and businesses alike.

In this holiday episode, Jason and Makenzie explore the ESOP as a meaningful gift to a company's employees. They break down how ESOP benefits work for both owners and employees and unpack the mechanics behind inside notes versus outside notes. This episode is a helpful resource in understanding ESOP verbiage and the real benefits that employees receive through a company transitioning to an ESOP. 

In this episode of Just Compensation, Andrew E. Graw, Taryn E. Cannataro, and Zachary Bocian discuss ESOPs, employee stock ownership plans. The conversation covers the tax and non-tax benefits of ESOPs, and how ESOPs can be used by shareholders of closely-held companies to diversify all or some of their equity in the company. Speakers: Andrew E. Graw, Partner and Chair, Executive Compensation and Employee Benefits Taryn E. Cannataro, Counsel, Executive Compensation and Employee Benefits Zachary Bocian, Associate, Executive Compensation

In this episode, Jason and Makenzie let three “ESOP ghosts” guide us through the employee-ownership journey. They revisit the origins of your ESOP, take a candid look at how things stand today, and discuss how to intentionally choose its future. They highlight how the decisions, habits, and culture shape long-term ESOP success.

In this episode, the Journey to an ESOP podcast speaks directly to founders who feel the weight of leadership and wonder how their team will successfully shift into an ESOP model. Through a blend of personal story and practical insight, Jason explores how identity, encouragement, and intentional leadership can help bridge that gap and prepare both leaders and teams for a confident, sustainable ESOP transition.

In this episode, Tom Mallon, General Partner at Perpetuate Capital, discusses his journey from founding Regent Surgical to pioneering ESOP based financing models, the long term value they create for employees, and how Perpetuate Capital helps founders transition their companies while preserving culture and strengthening future growth.

“For the employees who spend their career with us, we want to create millionaires.”In this episode, Bob Whalen, CEO of HB Global, joins Kate Volman to share his insights on leadership and creating a people-first culture. Bob explains the power of Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOPs) in driving both financial success and a stronger company culture. He also reflects on his leadership journey, highlighting how growth is more than just revenue. It's about creating opportunities for employees to thrive. Bob offers valuable lessons on employee engagement and embracing change in today's evolving business landscape.In this episode, you'll discover:The value of allowing employees to take ownership of their workWhy communication is key when facing challengesThe importance of being adaptable to change, especially in industries impacted by AIInvest in a coach to achieve your dreams: https://www.floydcoaching.com/Discover how to implement The Dream Manager Program:https://www.thedreammanager.com/Things to listen for:(00:00) Intro(01:09) The power of employee ownership(04:47) Hesitations with employee ownership(08:17) Building a thriving ESOP company culture(11:56) Where leaders can learn more about ESOPs(16:34) Finding fulfillment in helping employees(22:29) People-centered leadership, AI, and workforce implications(34:54) Rating HB Global's company culture(39:01) Bob's book and podcast recommendations for leadersResources:Floyd CoachingThe Culture AssessmentMatthew Kelly's BooksFloyd Coaching's BlogConnect with the GuestBob Whalen's LinkedInHB GlobalConnect with the Host & Floyd Coaching:Kate Volman's LinkedInFloyd Coaching on LinkedInFloyd Consulting on FacebookFloyd Consulting on TwitterFloyd Consulting on YouTubeFloyd Consulting on Instagram

If you've ever wondered whether an ESOP could be the right succession or liquidity strategy for your business, this episode breaks it down in practical, owner-friendly terms. ESOPs continue to gain traction among business owners, advisors, and management teams looking for a tax-advantaged way to transition ownership while preserving company culture and leadership continuity. In this conversation, we take a clear-eyed look at how ESOPs actually work, who they're right for, and the real impact they can have on company performance. In this episode of Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder, I'm joined by Kelly Finnell, president of Executive Financial Services and author of The ESOP Coach. Kelly has spent decades helping business owners evaluate ESOPs as part of their succession planning, and he brings both technical knowledge and real-world experience to the table. We discuss: The biggest myths and misconceptions business owners have about ESOPs How ESOPs compare to private equity, competitor sales, and management buyouts The traits that make a company a strong candidate for an ESOP – and the red flags How ESOP valuation works and how trustees influence deal dynamics What business owners should know about deal structure The cultural impact of employee ownership and why engagement tends to improve How leadership should communicate an ESOP to build an ownership mindset The key tax advantages that set ESOPs apart from other succession options Where ESOP efforts tend to go off track and what owners should watch for Whether you're a business owner planning ahead, a manager interested in ownership culture, or an advisor guiding clients through succession decisions, this episode provides a grounded, actionable look at ESOPs from someone who has been in the trenches. Subscribe to Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed this conversation, please share it with your network and leave a review—it helps more business owners and advisors discover the show! About Our Guest: Kelly O. Finnell, J.D., CLU, AIF® is one of the nation's premier ESOP consultants, having spent more than 40 years helping business owners design and execute ESOPs. Kelly is one of the most sought-after speakers about ESOPs, with experience presenting at more than 300 conferences and meetings throughout the U.S. and abroad in London and Sydney. An accomplished writer, Kelly wrote the preeminent ESOP book, The ESOP Coach: Using ESOPS in Ownership Succession Planning in 2010 and this work remains the most comprehensive guide to ESOPs today. Kelly has also published dozens of articles on the use of ESOPs in Ownership Succession Planning, An active member of the National Center for Employee Ownership (NCEO) and The ESOP Association, Kelly is a consistent pillar of leadership in the ESOP community. Kelly has also served in leadership roles in numerous professional and community activities, including: President of the Memphis Chapter of the Society of Financial Services Professionals, Vestry Member and Treasurer of his church, President of Family Services of Memphis, as a member of the Board of Directors of Renasant Bank and the Economic Club of Memphis and on the Dean's Advisory Council at the Christian Brothers University School of Business. Kelly graduated magna cum laude from the University of Memphis and from the Cecil C. Humphreys School of Law. He earned the Accredited Investment Fiduciary- professional designation, awarded by the Center for Fiduciary Studies at the University of Pittsburgh.   About the Host: Dave Bookbinder is known as an expert in business valuation and he is the person that business owners and entrepreneurs reach out to when they need to know what their most important assets are worth. Known as a collaborative adviser, Dave has served thousands of client companies of all sizes and industries.    Dave is the author of two #1 best-selling books about the impact of human capital (PEOPLE!) on the valuation of a business enterprise called The NEW ROI: Return On Individuals & The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers.    He's on a mission to change the conversation about how the accounting world recognizes the value of people's contributions to a business enterprise, and to quantify what every CEO on the planet claims: “Our people are this company's most valuable asset.”   Dave's book, A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know, was recognized as a top new release in Business and Valuation and is designed to provide practical insights and tools to help understand what really drives business value, how to prepare for an exit, and just make better decisions. He's also the host of the highly rated Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder business podcast which is enjoyed in more than 100 countries.  

This week, in Episode 270, we dig into employee ownership with two people who've lived it: Kris Maynard and Justin Jordan of Cathedral Holdings, a 100-percent employee-owned ESOP since 2011. Kris and Justin are enthusiastic proponents of ESOPs, but they're also candid about what can go wrong. Yes, ESOPs come with big tax advantages. But the transaction can be complex. The debt can fundamentally change the risk profile of a business. And perhaps the most under-discussed challenge of all: not all employees embrace employee ownership. Some see it as little more than a glorified retirement plan. And here's the thing: an ESOP can be a far riskier retirement plan than many understand. They differ from 401(k)s in that there's no regulation requiring an ESOP to sequester its employees' retirement funds. If the company fails—and like all businesses, ESOPs do fail—those nest eggs can vanish. Kris and Justin explain how they've addressed these issues and what they might do differently if they were starting over. They also emphasize an important point: Not all ESOPs are created equal. “If you've seen one ESOP,” Justin likes to say, “you've seen one ESOP.”