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Plenty of companies make the move to employee ownership—ESOPs, EOTs, buyouts—and then wonder why nothing really changes. The shares transfer, the announcement goes out, and then... people still feel like employees. The ownership is technically there, but the culture hasn't caught up. In this mini episode, Rodney and Sam respond to a listener who's seen this gap firsthand and wants to know which parts of the operating system to examine first. Drawing heavily from The Ready's own experience as an EOT, Rodney and Sam make the case that ownership culture lives in three places most companies underinvest in and why checks and balances between long-term purpose and short-term operations are the structural move that makes distributed power meaningful. -------------------------------- Ready to change your organization? Let's talk! Get our newsletter: Sign up here. Follow us: LinkedIn Instagram -------------------------------- Mentioned references: ESOP (Employee Stock Ownership Plan) EOT (Employee Owned Trust) The Ready's EOT transition The Ready's OS Canvas Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of Coupe Studios.
This episode is a re-run. It was originally published in April 2023.Most subs think the money is made on site.It's not. It's made in the terms.I've seen tier ones win projects at a loss because they know they can claw the margin back post-award through variations and EOTs.Meanwhile the subs underneath them are signing the worst version of the contract, because nobody told them there was a game being played.If you've ever felt like you're doing all the work and somehow keeping none of the profit, tune in.Struggling with unfair contracts or slow payments in construction? With 6,000+ contracts reviewed and $20 billion in contracts managed, Quantum Contracts' proven framework is designed to help you negotiate fair contracts, secure faster payments, avoid disputes, and improve cash flow.Work With Us: HereGet The Subcontractor's Edge Book: HereTimestamps:(1:44) - The returns are in the terms, that's where your money is made(5:10) - Liquidated damages are to compensate your client for the delay and the cost of the delay(8:37) - A lot of times there's an option to submit an alternative bid(18:56) - There can only be one angry man in the boat(22:24) - Chat GPT is very very powerful so it's just gonna continue to get betterDISCLAIMER: The content of this podcast does not constitute legal advice, is not intended to be a substitute for legal advice, and can not be relied upon as such. You should seek legal advice or other professional advice in relation to any matters you or your business may have.
This episode is a re-run. It was originally published in March 2023.Most projects don't hurt you early. They hurt you at closeout.In this episode, find out what “squeaky bum time” is and why the final quarter is when notices, EOTs, and paperwork decide if you get paid or get cut back.Also, dive into how AI will shape construction and why the smartest companies make the complex simple.Click play to tune in.Struggling with unfair contracts or slow payments in construction? With 6,000+ contracts reviewed and $20 billion in contracts managed, Quantum Contracts' proven framework is designed to help you negotiate fair contracts, secure faster payments, avoid disputes, and improve cash flow.Don't let contract issues hold you back—gain the confidence to focus on growing your business. Ready to take control and make more profit per project?Click here to GRAB the FREE Industry Standards Guide: quantumcs.co/ISYtClick here to IMPROVE your contracts using the Quantum Contract System: quantumcs.co/Yt2025Click here to GAIN expert advice weekly for FREE: quantumcs.co/YTNewsOptInTimestamps:(2:35) - Everything happens in that final quarter(5:58) - People are more worried about losing money and getting ripped off than making lots of money and growing(7:21) - It gave us confidence that you knew what you were doing(10:23) - Machinery replaces blue-collar workers(12:05) - Construction is a little behind as well as an industry(13:35) - The most successful construction companies are the companies that do one thing(15:01) - The innovation is just getting better and better at the one thingDISCLAIMER: The content of this podcast does not constitute legal advice, is not intended to be a substitute for legal advice, and can not be relied upon as such. You should seek legal advice or other professional advice in relation to any matters you or your business may have.Follow our Socials and let's get connected! ⤵️Facebook | LinkedIn | YouTube | Instagram | TikTok | Twitter
Episode Summary: Canada's Employee Ownership Trust legislation is relatively new. The UK's has been in place since 2014. In this episode, host Colleen O'Connell-Campbell crosses the Atlantic - virtually - to sit down with Christine Nicholson, a UK-based exit strategist who has spent her career founding, selling, and helping others exit businesses. Christine brings 12 years of firsthand perspective on what happens when EOTs work, when they fail spectacularly, and what separates the two. The conversation covers the three phases of exiting a business (the day-to-day, control, and ownership), why the EOT structure has been fastest-growing among professional services and architecture firms in the UK, a good-bad-ugly breakdown of real EOT outcomes, the psychology of letting go, and three practical steps any business owner can take in the next six to 12 months - whether they pursue an EOT or not. Christine also shares a powerful client story about a founder who was afraid his team would succeed without him, and what happened when he finally let them try. Key Takeaways: Christine frames every exit as three separate transitions: exiting the day-to-day operations, exiting control and decision-making, and transferring shares. Most founders fixate on the third while neglecting the first two - which are often the real barriers to a successful outcome. The UK introduced EOT legislation in 2014, offering zero capital gains tax when a business owner sells shares to an employee trust. The owner is paid out of the future profits of the business up to the value at the time of transfer. Canada's legislation was modelled in part on the UK's structure. In the UK, professional services firms - particularly architecture, engineering, and other talent-dependent businesses - have been the fastest-growing adopters of the EOT model, because it serves as both a succession vehicle and a powerful talent retention tool. The good, the bad, and the ugly of UK EOTs: The bad involved an owner who completed the transaction without telling employees, threw his keys on the desk Monday morning, and said "don't muck it up". The ugly involved an owner who gave employees only two weeks' notice, disappeared on day one, never got paid, and the company went into liquidation within 14 months. The good involved two burned-out owners who built a strong team, communicated clearly, elevated their employees, and are now working part-time in a business that has become the market share leader in its sector - with employees actively driving efficiency because they understand the link between performance and their bonus pool. The common thread in failures is not the EOT structure itself - it is the absence of preparation. An owner who disappears without building bench strength will see the business fail regardless of the ownership model. The typical timeline from owner disappearance to liquidation is about 12 months. Christine's three practical steps for any owner considering an EOT (or any exit): First, write down every decision you make and every thought you have about the business that would not happen without you - be ruthlessly honest, like keeping a food diary. Second, get your team to do the same, and identify who the "self-levelling cement" person is - the fixer who papers over every crack and prevents others from knowing they would have failed. Third, join those two pictures together and begin empowering employees to make decisions incrementally - millimetre by millimetre, not all at once. These three steps will increase the value of your business whether you pursue an EOT or not. Removing the owner as the sole decision-maker is the single most important thing a founder can do to make their business survivable, sellable, and scalable. Christine shared the story of a client who built a brilliant team over 25 years but could not see a successor because none of them looked like him. The breakthrough: he did not need another version of himself. He needed someone who could take what he built and elevate it. That business is now worth many multiples of what it was, runs without him, and has a queue of potential buyers - but his wealth advisor told him to keep owning it, because no investment could match the return. Culture eats strategy for breakfast - and Christine has watched PE buyers destroy great businesses within two years by gutting the culture and losing every employee. EOTs, by contrast, create alignment between ownership, performance, and retention. Whether you are exploring an EOT or simply thinking about your eventual exit, the work starts the same way: building a business that does not depend entirely on you. Book a one-on-one Wealth Gap Analysis with Colleen O'Connell-Campbell to map the gap between what you have built and what you need personally to fund your life after the exit. Reach out on LinkedIn or email. Please leave a five-star rating - it helps more founders find the show. *** The Cash Rich Exit Podcast is brought to you by O'Connell-Campbell Wealth Management at RBC Dominion Securities. All opinions expressed by the host, Colleen O'Connell-Campbell, and podcast guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of RBC Dominion Securities. This podcast is for informational purposes only before taking any action based on information in this podcast you should consult with a qualified professional. Colleen O'Connell-Campbell is a Wealth Advisor at RBC Dominion Securities, a member of the Canadian Investor Protection Fund.
What happens when a company that is already employee-owned realizes its ownership model is not built for the next chapter? In this episode, host Colleen O'Connell-Campbell sits down with Michael (Mike) Fotheringham, CEO of Taproot, and Robert MacDougall, Board Trustee. Taproot is a 42-year-old national social enterprise with 775 employees and over $65 million in annual revenue. They unpack how and why the organization became Canada's largest Employee Ownership Trust (EOT). Taproot's journey runs from its founding by a laid-off public servant in British Columbia, through a management buyout that created an ESOP with seven shareholders, to the realization that the next succession needed a cleaner, broader, and more scalable structure. Mike and Robert walk through the real story: how a LinkedIn podcast discovery sparked the conversation, why the EOT legislation provided a template that other structures could not, what governance looks like four months into the new model, and why transparency with employees started years before the transaction - not after. Key Takeaways: Taproot was founded 42 years ago by Bill Stelmachek, a former British Columbia public servant, and operates in two domains: children and youth services (including group homes) and direct support for adults with diverse abilities, across BC, Alberta, and Northern Ontario. When Bill decided to exit 18 years ago, he had interest from U.S. private equity and real estate buyers, but chose to sell to employees. Seven employees purchased the company and paid him out over several years, forming an ESOP. That ownership group grew to 30 shareholders over time. The succession challenge resurfaced as major shareholders began approaching retirement. The board explored multiple options - another management buyout, private equity, gifting share certificates to all employees, trust company arrangements, and buy-co structures - but each had significant drawbacks, particularly the administrative burden of managing shares across nearly 800 employees. The EOT conversation began when Mike heard a podcast from Social Capital Partners about the employee ownership trust model, shared it with the board, and connected with Tiara LeTourneau at Rewrite Capital Advisors. A feasibility study confirmed Taproot was a strong fit, and the board green-lit the transaction in January 2025. The EOT's capital gains tax exemption was not the primary driver of the transaction, but became a strong motivator during the process and contributed to 100% of shares being transferred into the trust. The more fundamental appeal was that the EOT legislation provided a clear template - parameters, structure, and guidance - that other models lacked. Governance under the new EOT structure includes three employee trustees (staggered three-year terms, elected by employees), an independent board of directors (confirmed by the trustees), and the management team. These three groups are now more distinct than the previous model, where senior management, majority owners, and the board overlapped heavily. Day-to-day operations have not changed dramatically. Taproot had already been practicing quarterly all-staff financial updates for two years before the transaction - a transparency habit that made the cultural transition smoother. Employees are now waiting for the first year-end to see what dividend distribution looks like. The design and governance work began before the transaction closed, with joint sessions between trustees-to-be, the incoming board, and management to establish how the groups would work together. Four months in, the structure is still being refined - but the right mix of continuity and new perspective is in place. Rewrite Capital Advisors guided the feasibility study, due diligence, and transaction design. Previous Cash Rich Exit Podcast episodes with Rewrite Capital and Firefly Insights cover the technical structure of EOTs in more detail. Taproot's story shows that selling your company does not have to mean selling out your values. A thoughtful process - including governance at the board level - can create both liquidity and long-term stewardship. If today's episode sparked questions about your own transition, book a one-on-one Wealth Gap Analysis with Colleen O'Connell-Campbell. Reach out on LinkedIn or email.
Jon Shell, Chair of Social Capital Partners and a board member at Employee Ownership Canada, explains employee ownership trusts (EOTs) and how they allow employees to collectively own a privately held business through a trust. They cover what changed in 2024, why policy and tax incentives matter, how EOTs are financed, and what research from the US and UK suggests about performance, investment, and long-term incentives. Connect with Jon on LinkedIn.
What does career minimalism really mean, and why is it showing up in Gen Z work culture? Bruce Sellery speaks with Glassdoor career pivot strategist Janel Abrahami about the idea of doing the minimum at work to create space for health, family, and life outside the office, plus what this trend can look like for employees and employers. Then, Wealthsimple's David Mak breaks down securities lending (stock lending), including how investors can potentially earn extra income by lending shares, what borrowers use those shares for, and how risk and collateral work. Next, Jon Shell from Social Capital Partners explains employee ownership trusts in Canada, how EOTs can help business owners transition succession to employees, and why employee ownership could strengthen communities and the Canadian economy. Plus, wealth manager and author Geoff Saab (Low Risk Rules: A Wealth Preservation Manifesto) shares why simple, low-fee, liquid investing can beat “prestige” products over the long run. Listen for practical takeaways you can use right now, whether you are building a career, growing a portfolio, or planning a business exit. To find out more about the guests check out: Janel Abrahami: janelabrahami.com | Instagram | TikTok | LinkedIn David Mak: wealthsimple.com | X | Instagram | Facebook Jon Shell: LinkedIn Geoff Saab: Substack | X Bruce Sellery is a personal finance expert and best-selling author. As the founder of Moolala and the CEO of Credit Canada, Bruce is on a mission to help you get a better handle on your money so you can live the life you want. High energy & low B.S., this is Moolala: Money Made Simple. Find Bruce Sellery at Moolala.ca | X | Facebook | LinkedIn
Selling your business to a new buyer isn't the only way to exit. What if you could transition ownership to your employees, rewarding their hard work while securing your legacy? In this episode, Chris Fredericks, CEO at Empowered Ventures, discusses Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOPs) and how they offer a powerful alternative to traditional exit strategies. Chris explores the advantages of ESOPs and other employee ownership models, such as co-ops and Employee Ownership Trusts (EOTs). He shares examples of how these models help businesses thrive and create lasting value for both owners and their teams. If you're considering your exit options, this episode offers valuable insights into the potential of employee ownership. In this episode, you will: Learn the nuances of ESOPs, Co-ops, and EOTs for employee ownership Understand the process of transitioning a company to employee ownership Learn how to navigate the legal and compliance aspects of ESOPs Highlights: (00:00) Meet Chris Fredericks (02:35) ESOP vs Co-Op vs EOT (05:17) Succession and transition to ESOP (08:34) Life after the ESOP (19:34) Deal sourcing through brokers vs direct outreach (23:09) The pressure & culture shift of employee ownership (24:55) Scaling ESOPs: employee-led demand & policy momentum Resources: For past guests, please visit https://www.defendersofbusinessvalue.com/ Follow Chris: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frederickschris/ Learn more about Empowered Ventures: https://empowered.ventures/ Follow Ed: Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edmysogland/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/defendersofbusinessvalue/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bvdefenders
Last November, the architecture and engineering firm Guidon – a Krieg DeVault client – became partially employee-owned through an Employee Ownership Trust, or EOT. Guidon's general counsel, Sonya Seeder, joins Brian Heaton, a longtime Krieg DeVault partner who helps middle- and lower-middle market corporate clients solve problems, to explore this emerging alternative to ESOPs. As they explain to host George Lepeniotis, EOTs operate through an employee ownership trust agreement, as opposed to an ESOP, which is governed by ERISA. Tune in as Brian and Sonya detail implications of the EOT mechanism, post-implementation employee education strategies, and ways that a firm like Krieg DeVault helps companies navigate the EOT process.Connect and Learn More☑️ Brian Heaton | LinkedIn☑️ Krieg DeVault LLP☑️ Sonya Seeder | LinkedIn☑️ Guidon on LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook☑️ George Lepeniotis | LinkedIn☑️ Krieg DeVault LLP | LinkedIn | X | Facebook☑️ Subscribe Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Amazon Music
Live Work with Madeleine I'm Helpless! Part 2 of 3 Today, we are pleased to present the exciting conclusion of our work with Madeleine, a loving mother who fears that her eldest daughter might be in mortal danger during her year abroad. Last week, you heard about the T = Testing and E = Empathy phase of the live work with Madeleine, a mother feeling intense panic and helplessness and inadequacy because she fears that her daughter could be in grave danger of abduction and worse. This week, we will focus on A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting, using the Miracle Cure Question, Magic Button, Positive Reframing, and Magic Dial to see if we can melt away her resistance to change. You can see the Emotions table of the Daily Mood Log Madeleine during the Magic Dial portion of the session if you Click Here As you can see, she wanted to reduce her negative feelings somewhat, but thought she still wanted to keep them fairly elevated, since she still sensed that her daughter might be in real danger, and clearly did not want to abandon her. This is one of the significant refinements in TEAM CBT. First, we want to bring the patient's resistance to full conscious awareness. Second, we want patients to full grasp that their negative thoughts and feelings do NOT result from some "defect" or "mental disorder," but rather from what is most beautiful and awesome about them as human beings. After the Magic Button, David and Jill went on to the final, M = Methods portion of the TEAM session, using tools such as Identify and Explain the Distortions, the Double Standard Technique, and the Externalization of Voices, with the Acceptance Paradox, the Self-Defense Paradigm, and the CAT (Counter-Attack Technique). We will, of course, do numerous role reversals to see if we can get Madeleine to a "huge" victory over her many distorted thoughts. You can see the Daily Mood Log Madeleine prepared at the end of the session if you Click Here As you can see, the reductions in negative feelings were dramatic, but in several areas (anxiety, inadequacy, frustration and anger), Madeleine's negative feelings were still minimally elevated. That is one of the reasons we decided to schedule an additional session together several weeks later to see if we could intensify Madeleine's responses to her negative thoughts, and hopefully due some Cognitive Flooding to complete her "treatment." At the end of these show notes, you will find an email from Madeleine after the session that includes her end-of-session scores on the BMS and EOTS. You will also see comments submitted by many participants who attended the webinar live. This email below from Madeleine following the session shows her end of session scores on the Brief Mood Survey as well as the Evaluation of Therapy Session at the end of her session with Jill and David. Hi David, Yes, here are my BMS & ETS score totals after the extended session. Please let me know if you have any questions. A relapse prevention session would be nice; however, I hesitate to accept your offer as you all are so busy. Please know that I am practicing the PTs and keeping the NTs in check for now. Thank you again a million times over
Live Work with Madeleine I'm Helpless! Part 1 of 3 Today, we are pleased to present one of our favorite podcast topics—live work with a real human being who is suffering. We will be working with Madeleine, a woman who read a disturbing article while at the hairdresser and freaked out, sensing that one of her daughters might be in mortal danger. This live and unedited session was first presented as part of a free webinar on September 11, 2025. There was no preparation or role-playing—everything was absolutely real and spontaneous, exactly as it evolved in real time. We present Part 1 as our final Feeling Good Podcast for our 2025 season. This is our most powerful and popular type of podcast, and we hope you enjoy it. We also give a big thanks to our courageous "patient," Madeleine. My co-therapist will be Dr. Jill Levitt, a clinical psychologist and Director of Training at the Feeling Good Institute in Mountain View, California. Jill and I greatly enjoy working together as co-therapists when we teach and we typically see our "patient" for an extended, two-hour session. We find that this is the most effective format for teaching, and that way, we can frequently complete a course of therapy in a single session. However, you do not need more than one therapist to do effective TEAM CBT, and you can do it in conventional 50 minute sessions as well. But often, you can do vastly more in a double session. We will not be engaged in an ongoing therapeutic relationship with Madeleine. When we work with therapists, they are doing personal work as a part of their training. We feel that this experience is vital for every therapist who hopes to do world-class TEAM CBT with their own patients / clients. More than 2,000 individuals registered for this workshop. Although the workshop was open to everyone, only 13% of the participants identified as general public, while 87% identified as mental health professionals. In Part 1, which we present today, we focused on T = Testing and E = Empathy phases of the TEAM session. In Part 2, which you will hear next week, we will focus on A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting and M = Methods. We will also show you the changes in her scores on the Daily Mood Log (DML) and Brief Mood Survey (BMS) from the start to the end of the session, as well as Madeleine's scores on the Evaluation of Therapy Session (EOTS) at the end, including what she liked the most and least about the session. That way, we can see clearly how much improvement there was (or wasn't) during the session, and how Jill and I did in terms of empathy, helpfulness, and other scales that evaluate the patient's view of the session. In Part 3, which you will hear in two weeks, we did more Externalization of Voices along with Cognitive Exposure, since we had some loose ends we wanted to tie up before completing our work with Madeleine. This follow-up session occurred many weeks after the initial session at the workshop, and will also serve as a follow-up to see how Madeleine did in the days following the live work. Part 1 of 3 Our "patient," Madeleine, is a courageous woman who experienced sheer panic after being triggered at the hair salon while reading an article about a young woman who was abducted. Since Madeleine's oldest daughter's is away at college, taking a year abroad, Madeleine realized she could not protect her from predators and freaked out, thinking about all the horrible things that could happen to her. In addition, Madeleine had many self-critical thoughts about ways she thought she had failed her daughter when her daughter was growing up, and worried about her daughter's judgement: She hasn't always made the best decisions about guys she's gone out with, and she's shared everything with me. She says, 'Don't worry mom. I've learned from this.'" At the start of the session, we reviewed Madeleine's scores on the Brief Mood Survey (BMS). This indicated only minimal depression (5/20), with no suicidal urges or anger, but her anxiety was still extremely elevated (18/20). In addition, her Positive Feelings score was only 20 out of 40, with 0 meaning no positive feelings at all, and 40 being the highest possible feelings. However, her Relationship Satisfaction score with her husband was 25 out of 30, which indicates strong satisfaction, with just a little room for improvement. We will ask Madeleine to complete the BMS again, along with the EOTS, so we can see precisely what changed, and by how much, during the session. Our goal, of course, with TEAM CBT, is nearly always to cause a near-complete, or complete, elimination of symptoms during a single, extended therapy session. In addition, we want every patient to have a crystal clear understanding of how and why they got upset, along with how to use the tools that were the most helpful to them in the session. That way, they'll be armed to deal with future relapses, which are inevitable for all human beings. And here's the big point. Our goal in sharing this session with you is so you can feel inspired, and see that rapid recovery really IS possible. And if you're a therapist, we hope that you will feel motivated to learn TEAM CBT so you can significantly improve your outcomes with your own patients. You can see the Daily Mood Log Madeleine prepared just prior to the session if you Click Here The upsetting situation was reading the article about the young abducted woman in the hair salon. On the Emotions table she indicated that she was feeling sad, down, and unhappy (85%), anxious, frightened and panicky (100%), inadequate (100%), frustrated (90%), and angry and upset (100%). These extremely high ratings tells us that Madeleine's negative feelings were about as intense as a human being can experience. Although your life is undoubtedly very different from Madeleine's, perhaps you, too, have felt panic and helplessness when you thought the life of a loved one might be in danger. Madeleine generated several additional negative Thoughts during the empathy phase of the session, including, I'm totally responsible for how she's turned out. 95% I was not present enough for her. 95% She may not trust that I'm there for her. 60% She's anxious and insecure and a people-pleasure, and she's also perfectionistic, and it's all my fault. 75% I should have been more sensitive when she was growing up. I expected too much. 100% Again, if you're a parent, you may have had similar negative thoughts about your own parenting. I know that I have! During the Empathy phase, Madeleine described her horrors when reading the article at the hairdresser's, with thoughts of Natalie Hollaway's brutal murder as well as other women who were abducted and murdered. Madeleine explained that she and her husband both married late, and felt somewhat insecure as parents: "It wasn't easy having children late in life. . . . When our first baby was born, the milk was not coming down. My daughter would look deep into my eyes, and I had the thought, 'I'm letting my daughter down.'" She said she had a rough time when she was growing up and her parents got divorced: "My heart was broken, and I had to learn to be strong. I had to learn not to let so much emotion through. I had to learn how to keep guys at arm's length. I had to protect myself from getting hurt." She said that wanted her daughters to grow up being strong and independent, but as she reflects back, she thinks she may have failed them and not provided enough warmth and support. Our goal during E = Empathy is not to help or even try change anything, but simply to go with our patients to the gates of hell, so they can vent, cry, and express their deepest and most private feelings. At the end of the Empathy portion of the session, we asked Madeleine to grade us on the three key elements of empathy, using letter grades: How accurately did we understand how you were thinking? How accurately did we understand how you were feeling inside? To what extent did we convey the spirit of trust, warmth, and acceptance? She gave us 3 A's, indicating it was time to move on to A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting, which you will hear next week. We will want to find out what Madeleine might want help with. We will also try to melt away her resistance to change using the Miracle Cure Question, the Magic Button, Positive Reframing, and the Magic Dial. Why would we anticipate resistance? After all, Madeleine is asking for help. But remember, the desire for change cannot always be take for granted in anyone. Nearly all of us have mixed feelings about change. After all, a loving and concerned mother might NOT want to stop worrying about a beloved daughter who seems to be in grave danger! But if you deal with this resistance in a compassionate way, you may open the door to the possibility of rapid healing when you come to the M = Methods portion of the session. We can check it out at the exciting conclusion of the work with Madeleine next week!
Chris Maslin, a speaker at The Finance, Accounting and Bookkeeping Show (FAB), joins the podcast to discuss selling a controlling stake in his firm to an employee ownership trust (EOT). He explains why he chose this route, how the transition worked, adjusting to reduced control and the alternatives he considered. Maslin also talks about launching Go EO, his consultancy helping other businesses explore EOTs, and gives his reaction to the Budget announcement cutting capital gains tax relief on EOT disposals from 100% to 50%. He'll be going more in-depth into his journey at FAB on 11-12 March at the NEC. Tom Herbert covers ICAEW's new tech hub for ACA students, created to close the skills gap by giving graduates free access to industry-standard apps. He and Maslin share their thoughts and what's still missing. Finally, Matthew Ord discusses Grant Thornton data showing CFOs and FDs often being left out of the loop. Drawing on chats with FAB speaker Clare Elliott and fractional CFO Marc Obrart, the team explore the risks of poor communication and why alignment across finance teams matters.
In this episode, Tommy D sits down with Marie Davis and Matthew Epperson from the Georgia Center for Employee Ownership (GACEO) to unpack how business owners can use succession planning to keep companies, jobs, and legacies in their communities. They outline the three major models of broad-based employee ownership—ESOPs (a regulated retirement trust invested in the company), worker cooperatives (direct ownership with patronage profit sharing), and employee ownership trusts (EOTs) (mission-driven trusts that share value broadly)—and explain when each fits. Key clarifications: employees don't pay to join an ESOP, governance typically remains with a board, and sellers may access tax advantages such as a §1042 capital-gains rollover (for ESOPs and co-ops). The conversation anchors these ideas in the “silver tsunami” of boomer-owned businesses and why proactive planning preserves local economies.Marie and Matthew share real-world examples: Clegg Auto's EOT-backed expansion that kept Augusta's Regency Auto open with the same team and a new profit-sharing purpose trust; the growth of Love Is Love Cooperative Farm from five founders to 20 employees; and Athens-based JOMA Construction, which went 100% ESOP early, aligning a young workforce around long-term wealth building and retention. Beyond the why and how, they highlight practical on-ramps for owners and advisors—GACEO's Employee Ownership Ambassador Program and Exit Pro 101—and point to a national ecosystem of state centers (via EOX) that can match companies with experienced legal, accounting, valuation, and financing partners.If you're a founder, CFO/CPA, exit planner, or community leader exploring alternatives to traditional M&A, this episode shows how to transition ownership to employees, protect culture, and keep profits local. Learn more at GACEO.org and connect with Tommy D to continue the conversation.
Ken Shuttleworth of Make Architects reflects on his 50 year (and counting) career in architecture and chats with Louise and Rachel about not having his name above the door; founding one of the first EOTs in the sector; and leading a multi-generational practice.Coaches On The Couch is co-hosted by Louise Rodgers and Rachel Birchmore who are exec and leadership coaches. They design and deliver bespoke leadership development programmes and coaching for architects, engineers and other consultancies across the built environment. For more information, please visit www.StepUpLondon.com
In this episode of WealthTalk, Christian Rodwell is joined by Omar Aswat, Chartered Tax Adviser and founder of ASWATAX, to unpack the urgent changes coming to Business Property Relief (BPR) in April 2026 and what they mean for business owners and property investors. Omar explains how the new BPR limits could expose significant business value to inheritance tax, highlights the practical steps you should be taking now, and delves into strategies like family investment companies, trusts, and smart incorporation. The discussion also covers the impact of Section 24 on landlords, practical tax-saving tips for business owners, and succession planning tools for those looking to future-proof their wealth. Whether you're scaling a business, building a property portfolio, or planning your exit, this episode is packed with actionable insights to help you stay ahead of the curve.Key TakeawaysMajor Change to Business Property Relief (BPR) in 2026From April 6, 2026, BPR will only exempt £1 million of value per trading company/group from inheritance tax (IHT); any value above will be taxed at 20%.Urgent need for business owners to review structures and plan ahead.Who Is Affected?Owners of trading companies/groups with assets above £1 million.Property investment companies already subject to IHT—this rule change doesn't benefit or worsen their position.Mitigation & Planning StrategiesFamily investment companies (FICs)Growth and freezer sharesDiscretionary trustsGifting, sale acceleration, and succession planningCase-by-case: bespoke advice is essentialSection 24 & Incorporation for Property InvestorsSection 24 restricts mortgage interest relief for personally held property; incorporation can offer tax savings but must be weighed against capital gains and stamp duty costs.Comparative calculations are vital before transferring property into a company.Inheritance Tax Allowances Explained£325,000 nil-rate band per person, plus £175,000 residence nil-rate band (if passing main home to direct descendants).Married couples can combine for up to £1 million, but the rules are technical and not inflation-linked.Family Investment Companies (FICs)FICs provide flexibility in dividend planning, control, and succession.Can be set up new or by converting existing companies; often used in combination with trusts for asset protection.Smart Moves for Business OwnersAlphabet shares for flexible dividend planning.Utilise directors' loan accounts, charge rent for company premises owned personally, and salary sacrifice schemes.SSAS pensions remain a powerful, underused tool.Planning for Exit or SaleEarly, proactive planning is essential—some reliefs require shares to be held for 24+ months.Options: third-party sale, management buyout, employee ownership trust (EOT), company purchase of own shares, or new holding company.EOTs: allow sale for 0% CGT if structured correctly, but success depends on a strong management team post-sale.Omar's Experience & PodcastOver a decade in finance, founder of ASWATAX (Leicester & London).Hosts “Talking Tax Podcast,” covering EOTs, IHT, R&D, and more.Contact DetailsWebsite: www.aswatax.co.ukEmail: omar@aswatax.co.uk or taxadvisory@aswatax.co.ukPractical TipsDon't delay—review your business and property structures now ahead of April 2026.Always seek bespoke, specialist advice before making structural tax decisions.Consider both current and future family/succession needs in your planning.Use comparative calculations to assess incorporation or restructuring benefits.Mention WealthBuilders if contacting Omar for tailored support.Resources MentionedJoin the Inheritance Tax Guide WaitlistWT103 - Employee Ownership Trusts w/ Chris BuddWT295 - The Exit Roadmap: How to Sell Your Business for Maximum Value w/ Chris SpratlingConnect with Us:Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, and all major platforms.For more inspiring stories and actionable tips, subscribe to Wealth Talk and leave us a review!Next Steps On Your WealthBuilding Journey: Join the WealthBuilders Facebook CommunitySchedule a 1:1 call with one of our teamBecome a member of WealthBuildersIf you have been enjoying listening to WealthTalk - Please Leave Us A Review!If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review WealthTalk on your favourite podcast platform
Finish Big - The Podcast with Mark Dorman from Legacy Business Advisors.
In this episode of the Finish Big Podcast, host Mark Dorman welcomes back Corey Rosen, founder of the National Center for Employee Ownership (NCEO), for Part 2 of their conversation on alternative ownership structures—specifically, the Employee Ownership Trust (EOT). Following their earlier discussion on Employee Stock Ownership Plans (ESOPs), Mark and Corey explore how EOTs differ, their origins, and why some business owners may choose them over ESOPs. They cover the practical, cultural, and philosophical factors driving this emerging succession strategy in the U.S. Mark and Corey discuss: EOT Origins & Growth: How the model evolved in the UK (inspired by the John Lewis Partnership) and its rapid adoption overseas. Key Differences from ESOPs: Costs, complexity, tax implications, and the flexibility to set custom rules for ownership and profit distribution. Ideal Candidates: Why smaller companies (often under 50 employees) and owners committed to long-term independence may benefit most. Purpose Trusts: How some companies, like Patagonia, use ownership trusts for social and environmental missions. Succession Planning Considerations: When an EOT makes sense versus a management buyout, phantom stock, or other equity models. NCEO's Role: Resources, research, and networking opportunities for companies exploring employee ownership. Connect with Mark Dorman: Succession Plus US LinkedIn: Mark Dorman LinkedIn: Succession Plus Facebook: Succession Plus (330)-416-9271 mdorman@succession.plus About the Guest: Corey Rosen is the founder of the National Center for Employee Ownership (NCEO). A former Capitol Hill staffer and political science professor, Corey helped draft early ESOP legislation in the 1970s and has since authored numerous books and research papers on employee ownership. Today, he leads NCEO's mission to educate and support businesses considering employee ownership as a sustainable, wealth-building alternative to traditional exits.
In this week's episode of Business Buying Strategies, Jonathan speaks with Neil — a former accountant who lost his job in early 2020 and built a million-pound business in just five years. Neil shares how he went from doing the odd tax return to running a team of 12, managing 650 clients, and completing three acquisitions in just two years. You'll hear how he turned redundancy into opportunity, overcame the chaos of COVID, and used acquisitions — not marketing — to scale rapidly and strategically. What You'll Learn in This Episode: How Neil built his business from scratch during lockdown Why acquiring 100 clients in a day beats signing 5 clients a month What he learned from buying a micro business — and what he did differently the next time The behind-the-scenes reality of two back-to-back acquisitions in 2024 How he transformed from overworked solo founder to true business owner with a team and systems The mindset shift that turned Neil into a dealmaker — and future investor Key Quotes: “I had three or four clients in January 2020. Now, we have 650 and a million-pound turnover.” “You don't have to do this for 30 years to build real value — you just have to start.” “Acquisitions changed everything. I became a business owner, not just a technician.” Key moments: 00:30 – Intro: Meet Neil, from redundancy to dealmaker 04:00 – Starting a business with two months of savings 07:00 – His first acquisition: a micro business and proof of concept 11:00 – Deal two: 100 clients added in a single day 15:30 – Deal three: A 350-client acquisition and a management overhaul 21:00 – Letting go, building systems, and becoming the owner 26:00 – Dealing with challenges: TUPE, communication, and integration 30:00 – What's next: succession, EOTs, and giving back 34:00 – Final thoughts: De-risking, legacy, and your next chapter Want to learn how to buy a business like Neil? Download Jonathan's free book: https://dealmakers.co.uk/free-book Or explore our trainings at: https://dealmakers.co.uk ** Looking for a great acquisition lawyer in the UK? Use mine! ** If you are looking for a lawyer in the UK to help you get the deal over the line, then use my own lawyer, John Andrews. You can phone his office at (0345) 2412494 or email him at johnandrews.deallawyer@jmw.co.uk. Ready to get started? Here's how you can start your business buying journey… Download our free Business Buying Toolkit https://dealmakers.co.uk/business-buying-toolkit Join our Business Acquisition FastTrack programme https://www.dealmakers.co.uk/fast Already bought a business? if you've already bought a business, you should be part of my Inner Circle group where we discuss raising capital, integration management, and exiting. Email Maria on hello@thedealmakersacademy.com for more information.
In this episode we delve into the intriguing world of Employee Ownership Trusts (EOTs). Claire Hancott, a seasoned finance director and chartered accountant, guides listeners through the mechanics and benefits of EOTs, revealing why they are becoming an increasingly popular exit strategy for business owners. Discover how EOTs offer a tax-free way to sell your company while ensuring a seamless transition to your employees. We unveil practical insights and a candid debate on whether an EOT might be the right path for your business. ⭐ Rate, Review & Share this episode with fellow business owners, and let's grow together! ⭐ Subscribe to the weekly newsletter to get Expert Advice Straight to Your Inbox: https://www.profitcashgrowth.com/subscribe ⭐ Get a Free copy of Claire's book Profit By Numbers: https://www.profitcashgrowth.com/book VALUABLE RESOURCES Website LinkedIn YouTube Facebook ABOUT THE HOST: Claire Hancott through Profit Cash Growth helps 6 & 7 figure business owners to increase their profit, improve their cashflow and grow their business using their numbers. As a finance director & chartered management accountant, Claire has nearly 20 years' experience in finance and running businesses of her own. This gives her a unique insight into the information and support business owners need to grow a financially successful business. Claire passionately believes that every business should be run by the numbers because the numbers in your business are telling you a story about what is and isn't working and where your opportunities lie. Claire's mission is to provide insightful management accounts, reports and advice to business owners and support them to make smarter decisions. *The content of this podcast is for entertainment purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.
Send us a textWhat really happens after a business becomes employee-owned?In this insightful episode, Caroline Summers, CEO of PBShop – a successful book distribution company – shares her five-and-a-half-year journey through an Employee Ownership Trust (EOT) transition. From renegotiating a sky-high valuation to building a culture of ownership among long-serving staff, Caroline walks us through the highs, the hard truths, and the powerful lessons learned.
This week, in Episode 254, Jay Goltz, Mel Gravely, and special guest John Abrams have a frank conversation about what business owners can do to avoid what John calls the “fat-wallets-and-broken-hearts syndrome.” That's his term for what can happen when an owner sells to private equity and the company ends up getting stripped. Jay, Mel, and John all agree they want no part of that. They all would like to see their businesses continue on without them. And yet, in thinking about succession, they've chosen different paths. In a conversation sparked by the recent publication of John's book, From Founder to Future, we discuss those choices along with such issues as: why there are so few employee-owned businesses, whether they outperform other businesses, how you can finance the sale of a business to employees, whether the employee owners of an ESOP are truly owners, and whether a worker co-op model just might work for a hard-bitten, old-school owner like Jay Goltz.
Host @Michael Kerr speaks with @Honor Northam about her journey in business ownership and her advocacy for employee ownership. They discuss the challenges and benefits of transitioning to employee ownership trusts (EOTs), the impact of small businesses on local communities, and the cultural barriers that hinder the adoption of employee ownership in Australia. Honor shares her experiences with her bakery, @Honorbread, and how with limited formal business qualifications she has successfully run multiple businesses.The discussion covers;the upside of employees having a real stake in the companies they work for#employeeownership as a way to reward those who contribute to a business's success.how transitioning to an employee ownership trust can be financially beneficial for business ownerswhy #communityimpact is a significant consideration for small business owners when thinking about #exitplanninghow small businesses play a crucial role in supporting local communitieswhy understanding #EOTs is essential for business transitions.why cultural perceptions of ownership can hinder the adoption of employee ownership models.why regular business valuations are important for planning transitionshow the future of employee ownership in Australia is promising but requires more advocacy and understanding.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Employee Ownership02:47 Honor's Business Journey and Employee Ownership Experience05:59 Challenges and Misconceptions in Employee Ownership09:09 Financial Benefits of Employee Ownership11:56 Transitioning Businesses to Employee Ownership15:01 Community Impact and Responsibility18:01 Supporting Local Youth and Employment20:52 The Complexity of Business Succession24:09 Opportunities in Employee Ownership26:09 Exploring Employee Ownership Trusts (EOTs)29:20 Challenges of Employee Buy-In32:30 Cultural Perceptions of Employee Ownership37:43 Valuing Business Equity and Its Implications Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au
Life and political podcast. Brought to you from The Divided States of America. Videos of the Week: 15 Videos this Week. Show Opening: Discussion of a mutual friend of ours... Our Father's Day celebrations... Fishing stories... Iran–Israel war... Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys dies at 82. EOTS salutes him! Israel undermined Trump's position... Discussion of last weeks videos: Truth about LA (PoliticsGirl) Trump-Elon feud... (MSNBC) Wrong (Lincoln Project) That's not who we are... (Paul Lance) Some Interesting Stuff: TikTok ban deadline extended again.
In part two of this three-part series, Colleen welcomes back Jennifer Williams to explore the financial power behind Employee Ownership Trusts (EOTs). This isn't just a values-based feel-good exit. EOTs now offer significant tax advantages that can rival, and even exceed, traditional business sale routes. From how to qualify for the new $10M lifetime capital gains exemption to why Canada introduced this legislation, Jennifer breaks it all down - plus, the importance of doing it right with guidance from experts. ✨ Key Highlights and Timestamps
In this captivating episode, hosts Robin and Al sit down with Jon Shell, Chair of Social Capital Partners, for a compelling conversation about the transformative potential of employee ownership and the stakes involved. Jon takes us on his journey from the private sector to championing public policy changes that support Employee Ownership Trusts (EOTs) in Canada. Together, they explore how EOTs can preserve businesses, empower employees as owners, and create a more equitable economy. Tune in to discover the benefits, challenges, and profound impact employee ownership could have on wealth distribution and economic resilience in Canada."You can't salary your way to wealth." ~ Jon ShellKey Takeaways:Economic Resilience: Employee ownership enhances job security, loyalty, and company performance, particularly during economic downturns.Public Policy and Wealth Distribution: Policy initiatives, like those supported by the Canadian Employee Ownership Coalition, are key to broadening access to wealth and fostering economic change.Succession Planning with EOTs: Employee Ownership Trusts (EOTs) offer a tax-advantaged, sustainable succession option for business owners, with the first $10 million in capital gains being tax-free in Canada.Ideal Candidates and Growing Interest: Stable, mature companies with strong cash flow are well-suited for EOTs, reflecting the growing interest in employee ownership across Canada.Brought to you by Aria Benefits and Life & Legacy Advisory Group
Transitioning to a cooperative structure isn't just a trend; it's a transformative journey. In this episode, Sarah welcomes a panel of leaders to explore the real-life experiences and benefits of transitioning to employee ownership and cooperative business structures. Stacey Smith from Project Equity explains the different models like ESOPs, EOTs, and worker cooperatives, emphasizing their role in economic stability and community retention. Devra Gartenstein, founder of Patty Pan Cooperative, shares her journey of converting her food business into a worker cooperative to improve employee quality of life. And Monica Rocchino discusses her experience transitioning The Local Butcher Shop to a cooperative, highlighting the importance of financial literacy and structured management. You'll hear: About the challenges and successes in converting traditional business structures to cooperatives. The role that financial literacy and education plays in employee ownership The variety of Governance and management structures in employee-owned businesses The importance of financial viability for transitioning to employee ownership How employee ownership promotes equity and fair compensation in the workforce The ongoing support and resources available for businesses considering employee ownership transitions And more! Connect with our Panel: Stacey Smith - Project Equity Monica Rocchino - The Local Butcher Shop Devra Gartenstein - Patty Pan Co-Op The Good Food CFO Book Club: BookShop https://www.thegoodfoodcfo.com/live-events Stay Connected! Instagram: @TheGoodFoodCFOYouTube: @thegoodfoodcfo Join us in The Good Food CFO Community
Are you thinking about selling your business to an Employee Ownership Trust (EOT)? Let's unpack a crucial insight from a recent conversation with Andrew Evans, a tax lawyer, about the sale of EOTs. One vital lesson from this is the need for patience when it comes to deciding on selling an EOT. Andrew stressed the importance of not rushing into such a significant decision. It's essential for business owners to take their time, seek financial advice, and carefully assess the valuation offered for the business. Selling to an EOT involves complex considerations, including legal, financial, and cultural aspects. Rushing into a decision without thoughtful consideration can have long-term implications for the business, its employees, and the legacy it aims to leave behind. By taking the time to seek advice, evaluate valuations, and understand the legal responsibilities as trustee directors, business owners can make informed decisions that align with the best interests of the company and its employees. This approach enhances the likelihood of a successful and mutually beneficial sale to an EOT. As a business owner or entrepreneur, it's crucial to approach the sale of an EOT with a strategic and patient mindset. Your decision-making process can ultimately impact the future of the business, the employees, and the overall legacy you aim to create. Watch the episode here: https://succession.plus/uk/podcasts-uk/selling-an-employee-ownership-trust-eot-strategies-with-andrew-evans/ If you would like to learn more about how to start preparing your business, then you can get more information here: It All Begins with Insights. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
On this episode I rank my favorite "Enema of the State" songs in order. Host/Music/Produced by: poppincurbsPod IG: 182newspod#BillboardWasWrong
On this episode we dive deep into the blink-182 "Enema of the State" album. We look back at 1998/1999 and how the band exploded in popularity during this time period. EOTS demos, finals tracks, Travis Barker joining the band full time, and many more topics are discussed. Enjoy!Host/Produced by: poppincurbsPod IG: 182newspodSupport The Pod:https://streamlabs.com/tip/poppincurbs
Bret Keisling is joined by Jesse Tyler, Hypertherm Associate and host of the "Owner to Owner" podcast, to share brief highlights from the National Center for Employee Ownership (NCEO)'s 2024 Annual Conference, held April 29-May 1 in Tampa Florida. Jesse describes two panels he presented on, one on inspiring newer employee owners and another with Sargent Corp of Maine about EO podcasting. Jesse notes how employee ownership conferences have evolved in the last decade by including more forms of employee ownerships than just ESOPs and worker co-ops to include EOTs, ESOP acquisition and holding companies, and even private equity. Jesse also applauds two inspiring quotes Jennifer Briggs made at the conference. Head to our website for the video, full transcript, and links to further information for this episode: https://www.theesoppodcast.com/post/264-jesse-tyler-s-reflections-on-the-nceo-2024-annual-conference
From April 2023. To celebrate the NCEO's 2024 Annual Conference, Bret Keisling reshares an exciting announcement made at The National Center for Employee Ownership's Annual Conference last year by Loren Rodgers (NCEO) and Steve Storkan (EOX) about the formation of the NCEOX Initiative. This collaboration will combine the excellent messaging of the NCEO with the amazing messengers at Employee Ownership Expansion Network and their state employee ownership centers, which currently cover 70% of the US. At a time when EO is ascending in the US (and around the world), the NCEOX Initiative could drive a dramatic increase in ESOPs, worker co-ops, and employee ownership trusts (EOTs). The full transcript of this episode including a link to the NCEOX press release is available on our website at https://www.theesoppodcast.com/post/mini-cast-263-icymi-the-nceox-initiative
Evolution of TEAM from CBT Porn Compulsive Liars Angry Patients Who Resist Where's the App? and More! Note: The answers below were written by David prior to the podcast, just to give some structure to the discussion. Keep in mind that the actual live discussion by Rhonda, Matt and David will often go in different directions with different information and opinions. So, please listen to the podcast for the more complete answers! Today's live discussion was especially fun and lively, so make sure you listen to the actual live podcast. Questions for this Ask David Podcast Stan asks if any of my early methods have been abandoned by newer and more effective methods as CBT evolved into TEAM. Stan asks if mild porn is harmful or helpful. Rima ask how you can deal with compulsive liars. Pretika asks what to do with patients who angrily resist positive reframing. Anonymous asks several questions about the Feeling Great App. 1. Stan asks about new approaches in TEAM for habits and addictions, as well the evolution of TEAM, as compared with the much earlier classical CBT. 2. Stan also asks if mild porno is helpful or harmful. Hi David. I read in the eBook (I think it was) that you have radically changed your approach and have many new methods for Habits and Addictions. I actually have many of your books such as: Feeling Good Feeling Good Handbook When Panic Attacks Intimate Connections Feeling Good together Feeling Great eBook I wonder if you could please tell us in one of your Ask David podcasts which methods described in your earlier books you no longer recommend, because they have been superseded by more effective ones described in Feeling Great for example. I am sure there must be a lot of material that is still valid in those earlier books and which is not mentioned in Feeling Great. It would be great to know which ones you no longer recommend for the general public. I also want to ask you about Porn Addiction. Do you think occasional mild porn use is harmful or beneficial? I read in a BBC article that porn probably isn't harmful for most men, and can even be positive for couples. For example, some couples start to engage in oral sex after seeing it on the internet. Porn seems a bit like alcohol, if you abuse it it will be bad for your health but if you don't go for the strong stuff and don't over use it, it could be OK. I think some people might misinterpret your references to porn addiction as being any kind and intensity of porn use. Maybe these people feel anxious and shameful for using it as a result. I would welcome your clarification on this issue. Finally, even though I know you have heard it thousands, or hundreds of thousands of times, your work is having a really positive effect on my life. I am truly grateful for all that you do. Thank you, David. Warm regards Stan David's Reply Hi Stan, I can turn this into a couple Ask David questions for the podcast if you like. There have been many upgrades of the therapy ideas and techniques over the years, as we develop greater understanding of how people change, and what works and what tends not to work. In addition, I would say that we develop new methods and ideas on a weekly basis. The TEAM models lends itself very nicely to evolution, perhaps one of the strong points. I can speak in more detail on the podcast, but here are two ideas. First, I have come to appreciate more and more that all change in emotions comes from a reduction in belief in the negative thoughts that trigger negative feelings with few, if any, exceptions. In addition, any reduction in belief in negative thoughts will case an immediate reduction in the negative feelings that thought causes. This insight angers many people who don't really “get” it, so I don't push it. I find that people sometimes do not take kindly to statements that challenge their sacred beliefs. A simple example would be jogging, or aerobic exercise. Some people believe on faith or personal experience that exercise has a mood elevating effect due to release of endogenous “endorphins” in the brain, and many even claim that exercise is the most effective antidepressant known. While some people do experience a mood lift after strenuous exercise, I believe this is due to the change in their thoughts, telling themselves and believing that this is going to be good for the health and outlook. So that thought can have potent effects on mood. I can describe some experiments on exercise and mood. Second, I have tilted much further in the direction of appreciating the existence and power of resistance in all emotional and behavioral problems, and the often magical power of the new resistance-melting techniques I've developed in opening the door to the possibility of rapid and dramatic change. I'm also very aware of the therapy wars, predicated on the belief that our group as THE answer and your group consists of fools! And typically, one or both of those who are arguing have never measured anything in their patients on a session by session basis to see if things are working or not. This is just the tip of the iceberg, however! You can find a free offer of two free chapters on Habits and Addictions on every page of my website in the right-hand panel. You will find a strong emphasis on powerful new techniques that focus on motivation, such as the Triple Paradox, the Decision-Making Tool, the Devil's Advocate Technique, and more. Most of the techniques I developed in the early days of CBT still have a lot of power and I use almost all of them, sometimes with various modifications and upgrades. For example, I have added the CAT to the Acceptance Paradox and Self-Defense Paradigm in the Externalization of Voices (EOV), and now there are two versions of the CAT, one of them created just last week! On the porno question, I am not an expert in sociology research, so I don't know, and I try to avoid giving expert answers on things I don't have expertise in. My goal is not to proclaim what people should or shouldn't do, but rather to help people who come to me asking for help. It is tempting to assume your own views are straight from God, but I find that my own narcissism just gets me into trouble most of the time! I do like your thinking, though, that much of the time there are no absolute answers, rather personal preferences, and the impact will often depend on how things are used. As you say, a glass of wine could add to your meal. A bottle of wine daily might get you into trouble with your health and habits! Warmly, david 3. Rima asks about compulsive liars How do you deal with people who are compulsive liars? I found that even when using the five secrets, they either get really angry and start on the offensive or completely deny no matter what you say. If you have a client or someone in your personal life that you have deal with that lies a lot even when faced with facts and proof, what is the best way to handle it? On another point, I know that we all tell lies to a certain extent but I'm wondering whether you can impart some wisdom on why some people are compulsive liars. David response: I have a policy of NEVER answering general questions. If you want help with a relationship problem, please fill out the first four steps of a Relationship Journal. That way, we can see what the other person said, and what you said next. Otherwise, you might frame it as wanting help figuring out how to “handle” this other person who is “to blame,” or behaving badly, and so forth, without pinpointing your own role in the problem, which is the whole key to interpersonal therapy. Then we will have some dynamite to play with, as opposed to bullshit which tends to be too gooey in my experience! Certainly, people who lie compulsively can be challenging and irritating for sure, but let's take a look at the whole picture so we can also answer this question: Are you responding in a way that reduces the likelihood that they'll be honest? I'd LOVE to answer this question again once you send an RJ partially filled out. Thanks! 4. Preetika Chandna asks about patients who angrily resist Positive Reframing My client was offended by the positive reframe questions (any benefits and values for anxiety). She was unable to 'see' any benefits to her anxiety despite 'priming the pump' and gathered evidence from friends to emphasize her point. She ultimately dropped out of therapy. I'm wondering if we can move forward without positive reframing and circle back later, or is an open hands with empathy the best option when a client refuses to reframe and is actually offended by the suggestion? David's Take Sometimes you can do effective work without the A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting step in a highly motivated patient. However, I suspect a more fundamental problem is occurring here. Whenever you're stuck with an angry patient, immediately go to E = Empathy, and don't use any methods until you get an A, and have really re-established a warm, trusting relationship with the patient. I have emphasized the importance of using the BMS and EOTS with every patient at every session. Have you been doing this, and have you been getting a perfect score on the Empathy and Helpfulness Scales? This seems unlikely to me. Often anxious patients feel shame, especially if they have social anxiety, but this is also common with panic attacks and some other forms of anxiety. If she's ashamed of her anxiety, it would make sense that he might get defensive when asked to positively reframe it. At this point, I can only speculate, since I don't know the details of this case. Sometimes, it makes sense to pay a colleague for a couple consultation sessions to get “unstuck.” These are always extremely productive learning sessions. Positive Reframing, or Assessment of Resistance, is an art form, and sometimes you just can't “see” the reasons for the resistance at first. You might recall, or want to listen to, our live session with Sunny, who developed a sudden relapse of intense anxiety when he decided to change his approach to work, or non-work. (see podcast # X). The traditional positive reframing was not effective, but then when we started on methods, I suddenly “saw” something none of us had seen before during the session. His “anxiety” was actually a sign that something wonderful was happening! You can always start with M = Methods, and then when you run into resistance, you can revisit resistance with a Paradoxical CBA, or Externalization of Resistance, or some other approach. But the crucial thing is to get on the same page, and stay on the same page, with your patient. David 5. From a therapist who wishes to be anonymous I have a question, I think that habits and addiction (including the online additional chapters) are very important. I wonder if they will ever get their own book and app? David's take: Eventually we hope to include that dimension in our Feeling Great App. The Feeling Great book is designed for self-help. I wonder if you have suggestions regarding using the different role-playing techniques (such as externalization of voices) for patients or individuals that works on their own? David's take: Yes, we use these role-playing techniques in the Feeling Great App. When are we expecting the app? David's take: First quarter of 2024. Thank you ! Thanks for listening today!
Employee Ownership Trusts (EOTs) are an incredible tool for business owners looking to secure a smooth exit strategy while ensuring financial benefits for both themselves and their employees. But how exactly do EOTs unlock these financial benefits, and what should you know about the valuation and pricing process? Darryl had the pleasure of speaking with Richard Cowley, an expert in EOTs, on the latest episode of Exit Insights. Richard shared some valuable insights on how EOTs can maximise the value of your business exit strategy. One key aspect is understanding the valuation and pricing process in EOT transactions. By being knowledgeable about this process, you can ensure a fair and profitable transition of ownership, allowing you to reap the rewards of your hard work. Future profitability and cash generation are also crucial factors in EOT valuations. Richard emphasised the importance of assessing these elements to guarantee the long-term success of your business and the financial benefits for both you and your employees. During the discussion, they also explored how to effectively address and manage key staff members' reactions to EOT transactions. Ensuring a smooth transition and continued success hinges on maintaining a motivated and engaged workforce. Richard provided valuable insights and tips on how to navigate this process, ensuring the transition is as seamless as possible. Lastly, it's important to stay informed about the government's response to the growing popularity of EOTs. By keeping up with any regulatory changes and seizing new opportunities, you can adapt your exit strategy accordingly. Watch episode here: https://succession.plus/uk/podcasts-uk/richard-cowley/ If you would like to learn more about how to start preparing your business, then you can get more information here: It All Begins with Insights.
We're not quite done with summer, so we're continuing our annual EO/ESOP Podcast Summer School series. We selected some of our favorite episodes over the past year for your enjoyment while we spend the rest of our summer catching our breath and working on launching our exciting Season 7, beginning in late September 2023. In this episode, Bret Keisling shares an exciting announcement made at The National Center for Employee Ownership's Annual Spring Conference by Loren Rodgers (NCEO) and Steve Storkan (EOX) about the formation of the NCEOX Initiative. This collaboration will combine the excellent messaging of the NCEO with the amazing messengers at Employee Ownership Expansion Network and their state employee ownership centers, which currently cover 70% of the US. At a time when EO is ascending in the US (and around the world), the NCEOX Initiative could drive a dramatic increase in ESOPs, worker co-ops, and employee ownership trusts (EOTs).
We're not quite done with summer, so we're continuing our annual EO/ESOP Podcast Summer School series. We selected some of our favorite episodes over the past year for your enjoyment while we spend the rest of our summer catching our breath and working on launching our exciting Season 7, beginning in late September 2023. In this episode, Bret Keisling shared a collection of EO A-ha Moments from the "Owner to Owner" podcast with Jesse Tyler, collected from his five-part "Women in Manufacturing" series which dropped in March 2022. Jesse guests are all colleagues at Hypertherm, a 100% employee-owned company with international operations. The EO A-ha Moment isn't the first time someone heard about employee ownership, but rather that moment when they realized that ESOPs, worker co-ops, and EOTs could be transformative. Show notes with links to the full episodes featuring each of the highlighted EO A-ha moments are on our website at https://www.theesoppodcast.com/post/esop-summer-school-35-eo-a-ha-moments-volume-iv
Welcome to our annual EO/ESOP Podcast Summer School series. We selected some of our favorite episodes over the past year for your enjoyment while we spend the rest of our summer catching our breath and working on launching our exciting Season 7, beginning in late September 2023. In this episode, Bret Keisling shared a collection of EO A-ha Moments from EOX and many state centers. Featuring Steve Storkan (EOX), Matt Cropp (VEOC), Michael Palmieri (OEOC), John Burgess (FLCEO), Anne-Claire Broughton (NCEOC), Sue Crockett (MNCEO), Andy Spears (TNCEO) and Keith Davenport (MOCEO & KSCEO). The EO A-ha Moment isn't the first time they heard about EO, but rather that moment when they realized that ESOPs, worker co-ops, and EOTs could be transformative. Featuring excerpts from full episodes of "The EsOp Podcast" and the "Owner to Owner" podcast. Show notes with links to the full episodes featuring each of the highlighted EO A-ha moments are on our website at https://www.theesoppodcast.com/post/esop-summer-school-33-eo-a-ha-moments-volume-iii
What if there was an innovative way to transition out of your business while ensuring stability for your staff and clients? This is exactly what our guest, Chris Maslin, Founder of Go EO, managed with a unique concept - the Employee Ownership Trust (EOT). As Chris recounts his successful departure from his accountancy practice using EOT, he uncovers the challenges of a traditional Management Buyout (MBO) and shares the multifaceted benefits of EOT for the business owner and the existing workforce. Whether you're looking to retire or embark on a new venture, this conversation will shed light on EOT's potential to shape your business transition in an advantageous way.Transitioning to EOT ownership is not a walk in the park, as Chris shares from his own experience. His personal journey is a testament to the importance of clear communication with key staff members during this process. From preparing the staff for the transition, to conveying the message of stability to clients, there are many nuances that need to be navigated. This episode is an eye-opener for entrepreneurs considering EOT as an exit strategy, as Chris breaks down the complexities involved in an honest and insightful manner. So, tune in and uncover the possibilities of an EOT transition for your business. Support the showAm I adding value to you?If so - I'd like to ask you to support the show.In return, I will continue to bring massive value with two weekly shows, up to 3 hours per month of brilliant conversations and insights.Monthly subscriptions start at $3 per month. At $1 per hour, that's much less than the minimum wage, but we'll take what we can at this stage of the business.Of course, this is still free, but as an entrepreneur, the actual test of anything is if people are willing to pay for it.If I'm adding value to you, please support me by clicking the link now. Go ahead, make my day :)Support the show here.
Welcome to Episode 526 of the Yeukai Business Show. In this episode, Chris Maslin discusses the importance, benefits, and challenges of employee ownership trusts and the trend of businesses moving to cloud-based bookkeeping. So, if you want to know more about Employee Ownership Trusts, tune in now! In this episode, you'll discover: The rising trend of cloud bookkeepingThe potential risks and benefits of employee ownership trusts (EOTs) for business owners and their employeesThe importance of adapting to market trends About Chris Maslin Chris Built an accountancy practice from scratch. Sold it to an Employee Ownership Trust (EOT) in 2021. The guilt-free way to step away! More Information Learn more about Employee Ownership Trusts at https://goeo.uk/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris--maslin/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/GoEmployeeOwned Thanks so much for being with us this week. Have some feedback you'd like to share? Please leave a note in the comments section below! If you enjoyed this episode on How to Expand Your Business, please share it with your friends by using the social media buttons you see at the bottom of the post. Don't forget to subscribe to the show on iTunes to get automatic episode updates for our "Yeukai Business Show !" And, finally, please take a minute to leave us an honest review and rating on iTunes. They really help us out when it comes to the ranking of the show and I make it a point to read every single one of the reviews we get. Please leave a review right now Thanks for listening!
Adam Cox is joined by Simon Blake, Head of Strategic Corporate Finance at Price Bailey, for an insightful discussion surrounding recent data that has come to light through a Freedom of Information Request (FOIA). This data highlights a substantial increase in the number of Employee Ownership Trusts (EOTs) receiving tax clearance. Simon provides an overview of the findings and offers his perspective on the factors that have contributed to this surge of interest in EOTs. They examine the influence of tax incentives on the decision-making process for business owners contemplating the adoption of an EOT and explore the potential future implications of employee ownership trusts in the United Kingdom. https://www.pricebailey.co.uk/
Bret Keisling shares a clip from the "Owner to Owner" podcast. Host Jesse Tyler speaks with Matt Cropp, Executive Director of the Vermont Employee Ownership Center (https://veoc.org/), about the 2023 Annual VEOC Conference on June 1, 2023. VEOC23 is a great chance to learn about worker co-ops, ESOPs, EOTs, and employee ownership in general, in a beautiful setting that has a much more intimate feel than national and most regional conferences. This year's keynote speaker is Derek Peebles, Senior Director of Policy and Advocacy, Inclusive Economy of the American Sustainable Business Network. Derek's work situates employee ownership within the context of strengthening place-based finance and promoting restorative investments in local economies. O2O host Jesse Tyler will be co-presenting at two sessions: "Trials and Tribulations of Returning to Working In Person & Impact on Employee Ownership Culture," and "What is Working in Recruiting, Onboarding, Learning and Development as the Workforce Evolves." Links to the conference page along with a full transcript of this episode are available on our website at http://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.wav/soundcloud.com/theesoppodcast/mini-cast-230-the-2023-veoc-annual-conference
Bret Keisling shares an exciting announcement made at The National Center for Employee Ownership's Annual Conference this week by Loren Rodgers (NCEO) and Steve Storkan (EOX) about the formation of the NCEOX Initiative. This collaboration will combine the excellent messaging of the NCEO with the amazing messengers at Employee Ownership Expansion Network and their state employee ownership centers, which currently cover 70% of the US. At a time when EO is ascending in the US (and around the world), the NCEOX Initiative could drive a dramatic increase in ESOPs, worker co-ops, and employee ownership trusts (EOTs). The full transcript of this episode including a link to the NCEOX press release is available on our website at https://www.theesoppodcast.com/post/mini-cast-226-the-nceox-initiative
Bret Keisling shares a collection of EO A-ha Moments from the "Owner to Owner" podcast with Jesse Tyler, collected from his five-part "Women in Manufacturing" series which dropped in March 2022. Jesse guests are all colleagues at Hypertherm, a 100% employee-owned company with international operations. The EO A-ha Moment isn't the first time someone heard about employee ownership, but rather that moment when they realized that ESOPs, worker co-ops, and EOTs could be transformative. Show notes with links to the full episodes featuring each of the highlighted EO A-ha moments are on our website at https://www.theesoppodcast.com/post/235-eo-a-ha-moments-volume-iv
Bret Keisling shares a collection of EO A-ha Moments from EOX and many state centers. Featuring Steve Storkan (EOX), Matt Cropp (VEOC), Michael Palmieri (OEOC), John Burgess (FLCEO), Anne-Claire Broughton (NCEOC), Sue Crockett (MNCEO), Andy Spears (TNCEO) and Keith Davenport (MOCEO & KSCEO). The EO A-ha Moment isn't the first time they heard about EO, but rather that moment when they realized that ESOPs, worker co-ops, and EOTs could be transformative. Featuring excerpts from full episodes of "The EsOp Podcast" and the "Owner to Owner" podcast. Show notes with links to the full episodes featuring each of the highlighted EO A-ha moments are on our website at https://www.theesoppodcast.com/post/234-eo-a-ha-moments-volume-iii
Yikes! Do I REALLY have to share my feelings? Last week, we featured Part 1 of a live therapy session with Keren Shemesh, PhD, a licensed clinical psychologist who began having intense panic attacks when her mother and father visited from Israel. Today, we feature the exciting conclusion of that session, with follow-up. If you are interested, you can listen to the follow-up with Keren and Jill who joined us st the end of today's podcast. They comment on the session as well as the details of what happened following the session. I (David) raised the question of why so many of us have trouble being honest and open with our feelings, especially anger. Jill suggested that it might be due to the false dichotomy people see, contrasting aggression with love. But you can be honest and loving at the same time, including when you express feelings of anger. Of course, we make the Five Secrets of Effective Communication sound easy, but these powerful tools actually require an enormous level of skill as well as commitment. Part 2 of the Keren session: M = Methods We began the Methods part of the session with a bit more Paradoxical Agenda Setting, and listed some really GOOD reasons NOT to open up more to her mother. I want to protect her because it may be hard and upsetting to her. I'm not used to being vulnerable with my parents. I don't want to rock the boat or change the status quo. I'm not sure I want a closer relationship with my mother. NOTE: David and Jill were thinking that we often resist intimacy because we have negative pictures in our mind of what real closeness is. For example, if you think it means something yucky and upsetting, you obviously won't want to get “close.” Jill tried to finesse around this by suggesting Keren might aim for a more “honest” relationship instead of a “closer” relationship. There are things about me that they've rejected, like the fact that I don't really want children. And I'm not so sure I want to make myself vulnerable and get rejected again! I'm afraid I'll get swallowed up and enmeshed. We asked Keren what kinds of feelings she was hiding from her mother. My feelings of nervousness and intense anxiety, and the intense somatic symptoms, like the knot in my stomach. I am scared for her future, since she is not in good health and she's not taking care of herself. I have feelings of anger and resentment about the fact that I'm not the kind of daughter they wanted. I'm sad about her health and seeing her struggle. I feel hurt when I think how I have failed them and let them down. I sometimes feel like I don't really belong. At this point, I became so absorbed in the session that I stopped taking notes, so you will have to listen carefully to the recording of the session which was fascinating. I do recall, however, that we began working on communication, using the Five Secrets of Effective Communication (LINK), as well as tips on how to proceed, taking it one step at a time and not trying to do it all at once, and role playing practice. Then we did some Externalization of Voices with the thoughts on Keren's Daily Mood Log, using several strategies: Self-Defense, the Acceptance Paradox, and the CAT, or Counter-Attack Technique. You can see the Daily Mood Log she completed after the session, based on the work we did in the session, at this LINK. Keren's end-or-session Brief Mood Survey and Evaluation of Therapy Session In addition, Keren and Jill will be with us to record the follow-up. T = End-of-Session Testing You can review Keren's BMS and EOTS (Patient's Evaluation of Therapy Session) at the end of the session at this LINK. Keren's end-or-session Brief Mood Survey and Evaluation of Therapy Session As you can see, her depression score fell to 1, indicating substantial improvement, while her suicidal thoughts and urges remained at 0. Her feelings of anxiety vanished, but her feelings of anger remained fairly elevated, falling from 7 to 4. We would not expect further improvement in this dimension until she's had the chance to share more of her feelings with her mom. Her feelings of happiness only increased from 10 to 13, again any further improvement would not be expected until she's had the chance to do her “homework” following the session. However, her satisfaction with her relationship with her mom increased from 19 to 26 out of 30, which is substantial, while still leaving some room for improvement. On the EOTs, you will see that our Empathy and Helpfulness scores were perfect, along with our scores on the Satisfaction with Session, Commitment to homework, unexpressed Negative Feelings, and honesty scales. Here's what she like “the least” about the session: “Nothing. This has been a powerful experience.” Here's what she like “the best” about the session: “This has been empowering. The hidden emotion is like a blind spot. I know it is there, but I cannot see it. I loved when David pointed to my avoidance, and I am glad we focused on the hidden emotion. Jill and David were able to see the depth in situation and I feel seen and understood.” Follow-Up We exchanged a number of emails following the session, and will also talk to Keren and Jill live on the podcast so you can catch up on what happened. But here is an excerpt from one of Keren's emails: Here is what has happened so far: On Friday morning, she made some comments about my gray hair and that the fridge gasket was not properly clean. I got really annoyed, but did not say anything. To be honest, I was too angry to use the 5 secrets and needed time to cool off. About after half an hour later, on our way to the acupuncturist, I told her that I love having her over and that it is special to me that we spend time together. She thanked me for everything that I am doing for her on this trip. Then I added: "this morning, when I came to check on you, you commented on my hair and then you told me to clean the fridge gasket..." I was going to follow up with 5 secrets, but before I was able to finish, she interrupted me and said "Gosh, I am so critical! I am sorry, I didn't mean it that way. I can see now why your sister gets upset with me. I can't believe myself." I told her that I love her honesty and while her criticism comes from a caring loving place the how and when she says things sets tone. This was a breakthrough because even though I did not finish using the 5 secrets I got through to her and felt heard. It was encouraging for me to feel that I could be understood and accepted by her. I have clients who say that they love the 5 secrets, but like to call it the 3 secrets because they find it effective enough to use only 3. (I still encouraged them to use all 5). I can see now what they mean, I did not finish my 5 secrets spiel and got some good results. I believe that my conservation with my mother will further trickle during her stay. Perhaps because there is a lot to cover, or perhaps it's the way we communicate. In either case, I feel good about having the talks that I previously dreaded. I have not had any panic attacks since, but I don't think they have completely gone. I believe they will be there to remind me to address certain emotions that need addressing.. . . I will keep you posted and may even send this to the group. Just need to think about it a bit longer. Responses from the Tuesday Group who observed our work with Keren Here are just a few of the comments from the 35 therapists who observed the session. This is part of the feedback we get on the quality of our teaching at the end of every Tuesday training group. Please describe what you specifically disliked about the training/ Nothing. The live work was fascinating to watch. David and Jill were masterful as always! This was a truly moving and inspiring and helpful session. I can't think of anything I didn't like about it. Nothing I disliked. I think I would have liked to see Keren do more deliberate practice with the 5 secrets with grading and more roleplaying. Conceptualization was a bit hard to follow. Please describe what you specifically liked about the training. Thank you for such an authentic, moving, beautiful session. And tour-de-force demonstration of TEAM therapy. Observing David and Jill as co therapists in service of Keren was an amazing learning opportunity! The power between them was exponential and felt like they successfully addressed every angle. . . I had not considered using EOV and loved how effective that was in crushing Keren's thoughts. I also loved how Jill finessed gently guiding her to address Hidden Emotion, having clear conviction that this was where the "action" was. I can understand what Keren said that she wants to be closer but does not want to be enmeshed. I think that it helped us in our work with immigrants and those who live away from where they were born. The discussion about the desire to be a parent or not, was another aspect of the work that I really respected. Excellent class tonight! Keren's gift to the class was priceless and David and Jill's masterful teaching was outstanding as always. Thank you!!! I got to feel closer to her and to several group members through their sharing. David touched me with the notion that opening up to one's parents is an important gift that many of them don't get to receive. Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Keren, Jill, and David
When the Hidden Emotion isn't Hidden! Today's podcast will feature a live therapy session on September 13, 2022 with Keren Shemesh, PhD, a licensed clinical psychologist and certified TEAM-CBT therapist. The entire session was recorded and will be presented in two consecutive podcasts. The two co-therapists are Jill Levitt, PhD, a clinical psychologist, and Director of Clinical Training at the FeelingGoodInsititute.com. Part 1 of the Keren session I will summarize the work that Dr. Jill Levitt and I did with Keren according to the familiar sequence of a TEAM-CBT Session: T = Testing, E = Empathy, A = Assessment of Resistance (formerly Paradoxical Agenda Setting), and M = Methods, with a final round of T = end-of-session Testing. In today's podcast, we will include the T, E, and A. In Part 2, we will include M = Methods and the final T = Testing. T = Testing Just before the start of the session, Keren completed the Brief Mood Survey (BMS) which you can review at this link: Keren's Pre-Session BMS As you can see, her depression score was only 3 out of 20, indicating minimal to mild depression. There were no suicidal thoughts, and her anxiety score was 10 out of 20, indicating moderate anxiety. She was also moderately angry (7 out of 20) and her happiness score was 10 out of 20, indicating very little happiness. Her relationship satisfaction level with her mother was 19 out of 30, indicating lots of room for improvement. However, she rated “degree of affection and caring” at 6 for “very satisfied,” which is the highest rating on this important item. We will ask her to take the BMS again at the end of the session, along with the Evaluation of Therapy Session, so we can see what the impact of the session was on her symptoms, as well as how empathic and helpful we were during the session. These ratings will be important, because the perceptions of therapists can be way off base, but the perceptions of our patients will nearly always be spot-on. Keren also brought a partially completed Daily Mood Log, which you can see at this link: Keren's Daily Mood Log (DML) at the start of the session As you can see, the upsetting event was her mother's visit from Israel. She had moderately to severely elevated negative feelings in nine categories, along with 17 negative thoughts, along with her rather strong beliefs in all of them. Most of her thoughts were of a self-critical nature, with lots of Hidden Should Statements as well. E = Empathy At the start of our session, which took place in front of our Tuesday evening training group at Stanford, Keren described her struggles like this: On Wednesday I woke up at 3 AM with panic attacks, one after another, and no way of getting back to sleep. I get somatic symptoms, I felt weak, nauseated, with no strength, almost paralyzed, and emotionally unstable. This was four days after my mother arrived form Israel. In the last 20 years, she and my dad visited me only once, on my graduation. I always had to visit them in Israel every year and was frustrated they none came to visit me in the Bat Area. On my last visit in May, I expressed my frustration about them not visiting me. They took it to heart and made plans to come for the Jewish high Holidays. My mom arrived first a few days ago and It's my first time alone with her. She's a Jewish mom and she stresses me out. Of course, I was really excited when she first arrived, but after four days I feel overwhelmed. This is SO MUCH WORK! I feel sad. I'm afraid I won't be able to function. I just cannot seem to enjoy my time with her. I feel fragile, but I'm hiding it. She's 73, and the signs of aging are obvious now. She needs more care, and it's tough to see her aging. Dad has always been super athletic, and he's in great shape, but she doesn't exercise or take care of herself. She's frustrated about aging and is angry with us for not accepting her as she is. I don't want to seem unhappy. I'm overwhelmed and just feel bad! David and Jill empathized, and Jill emphasized how much her parents must love her, coming from such a great distance to be with her, but also acknowledged how hard it must be for them and for Keren to be living at such a great distance. Jill pointed out that one of the issues Keren may be struggling with is the belief that their time together should be fun and conflict-free, since the time is so precious. Keren continued: My biggest problem is that I feel I cannot be me when I'm around them . . . . They want me to be a different version of myself. . . . They want me to be a mother, and they want grandchildren. But I'm in the 5% of women who don't have any interest in having children. I'm 46 years old now, and I guess I could see myself adopting, but having a family is a big job, and I've never had the passion. So, I feel like I'm a disappointment to them. But we never talk about it. I sometimes feel invisible and unseen when I'm around them. They'd be so much prouder of me if I had children they could brag about. Keren also shared her frustration and anger with her mom for not taking better care of her health. Since her mom has been in town, Keren has arranged all kinds of fun activities for them to do together, but Keren's joy is dampened by the many unspoken feelings she is constantly trying to hide, for fear of conflict and upsetting her parents. A = Assessment of Resistance Keren gave us an A+ in Empathy, so we went on to the Assessment of Resistance phase of the session, where we set the Agenda. Keren's goal was to get over her panic attacks, and we discussed three possible treatment strategies with Keren: The Hidden Emotion Technique: This technique would be based on our hunch that Keren's panic attacks are the direct result of the many feelings she is consciously, and subconscious trying to hide and sweep under the rug. Dealing with the self-critical thoughts on the Daily Mood Log she provided at the start of the session. LINK Using Forced Empathy to help her see the world through her mother's eyes, as we did in a fairly recent podcast with Zeina, another member of our Tuesday training group who was in conflict with her mother. Keren expressed considerable enthusiasm for options 2 and 3. I (David) pointed out that she appeared to be ignoring / avoiding the first option, and raised the question of whether that meant it might be the most productive, but scariest, of the three options. Keren conceded that this rang true, and wanted to start out with learning to express her feelings more openly and directly, but in a respectful and loving way. In next week's podcast, you'll find out what happened! Part 2 of the Keren session: M = Methods We began the Methods part of the session with a bit more Paradoxical Agenda Setting, and listed some really GOOD reasons NOT to open up more to her mother. I want to protect her because it may be hard and upsetting to her. I'm not used to being vulnerable with my parents. I don't want to rock the boat or change the status quo. I'm not sure I want a closer relationship with my mother. NOTE: David and Jill were thinking that we often resist intimacy because we have negative pictures in our mind of what real closeness is. For example, if you think it means something yucky and upsetting, you obviously won't want to get “close.” Jill tried to finesse around this by suggesting Keren might aim for a more “honest” relationship instead of a “closer” relationship. There are things about me that they've rejected, like the fact that I don't really want children. And I'm not so sure I want to make myself vulnerable and get rejected again! I'm afraid I'll get swallowed up and enmeshed. We asked Keren what kinds of feelings she was hiding from her mother. My feelings of nervousness and intense anxiety, and the intense somatic symptoms, like the knot in my stomach. I am scared for her future, since she is not in good health and she's not taking care of herself. I have feelings of anger and resentment about the fact that I'm not the kind of daughter they wanted. I'm sad about her health and seeing her struggle. I feel hurt when I think how I have failed them and let them down. I sometimes feel like I don't really belong. At this point, I became so absorbed in the session that I stopped taking notes, so you will have to listen carefully to the recording of the session which was fascinating. I do recall, however, that we began working on communication, using the Five Secrets of Effective Communication (LINK), as well as tips on how to proceed, taking it one step at a time and not trying to do it all at once, and role playing practice. Then we did some Externalization of Voices with the thoughts on Keren's Daily Mood Log, using several strategies: Self-Defense, the Acceptance Paradox, and the CAT, or Counter-Attack Technique. You can see the Daily Mood Log she completed after the session, based on the work we did in the session, at this LINK. Keren's end-or-session Brief Mood Survey and Evaluation of Therapy Session In addition, Keren and Jill will be with us to record the follow-up. T = End-of-Session Testing You can review Keren's BMS and EOTS (Patient's Evaluation of Therapy Session) at the end of the session at this LINK. Keren's end-or-session Brief Mood Survey and Evaluation of Therapy Session As you can see, her depression score fell to 1, indicating substantial improvement, while her suicidal thoughts and urges remained at 0. Her feelings of anxiety vanished, but her feelings of anger remained fairly elevated, falling from 7 to 4. We would not expect further improvement in this dimension until she's had the chance to share more of her feelings with her mom. Her feelings of happiness only increased from 10 to 13, again any further improvement would not be expected until she's had the chance to do her “homework” following the session. However, her satisfaction with her relationship with her mom increased from 19 to 26 out of 30, which is substantial, while still leaving some room for improvement. On the EOTs, you will see that our Empathy and Helpfulness scores were perfect, along with our scores on the Satisfaction with Session, Commitment to homework, unexpressed Negative Feelings, and honesty scales. Here's what she like “the least” about the session: “Nothing. This has been a powerful experience.” Here's what she like “the best” about the session: “This has been empowering. The hidden emotion is like a blind spot. I know it is there, but I cannot see it. I loved when David pointed to my avoidance, and I am glad we focused on the hidden emotion. Jill and David were able to see the depth in situation and I feel seen and understood.” Follow-Up We exchanged a number of emails following the session, and will also talk to Keren and Jill live on the podcast so you can catch up on what happened. But here is an excerpt from one of Keren's emails: Here is what has happened so far: On Friday morning, she made some comments about my gray hair and that the fridge gasket was not properly clean. I got really annoyed, but did not say anything. To be honest, I was too angry to use the 5 secrets and needed time to cool off. About after half an hour later, on our way to the acupuncturist, I told her that I love having her over and that it is special to me that we spend time together. She thanked me for everything that I am doing for her on this trip. Then I added: "this morning, when I came to check on you, you commented on my hair and then you told me to clean the fridge gasket..." I was going to follow up with 5 secrets, but before I was able to finish, she interrupted me and said "Gosh, I am so critical! I am sorry, I didn't mean it that way. I can see now why your sister gets upset with me. I can't believe myself." I told her that I love her honesty and while her criticism comes from a caring loving place the how and when she says things sets tone. This was a breakthrough because even though I did not finish using the 5 secrets I got through to her and felt heard. It was encouraging for me to feel that I could be understood and accepted by her. I have clients who say that they love the 5 secrets, but like to call it the 3 secrets because they find it effective enough to use only 3. (I still encouraged them to use all 5). I can see now what they mean, I did not finish my 5 secrets spiel and got some good results. I believe that my conservation with my mother will further trickle during her stay. Perhaps because there is a lot to cover, or perhaps it's the way we communicate. In either case, I feel good about having the talks that I previously dreaded. I have not had any panic attacks since, but I don't think they have completely gone. I believe they will be there to remind me to address certain emotions that need addressing.. . . I will keep you posted and may even send this to the group. Just need to think about it a bit longer. Responses from the Tuesday Group who observed our work with Keren Here are just a few of the comments from the 35 therapists who observed the session. This is part of the feedback we get on the quality of our teaching at the end of every Tuesday training group. Please describe what you specifically disliked about the training/ Nothing. The live work was fascinating to watch. David and Jill were masterful as always! This was a truly moving and inspiring and helpful session. I can't think of anything I didn't like about it. Nothing I disliked. I think I would have liked to see Keren do more deliberate practice with the 5 secrets with grading and more roleplaying. Conceptualization was a bit hard to follow. Please describe what you specifically liked about the training. Thank you for such an authentic, moving, beautiful session. And tour-de-force demonstration of TEAM therapy. Observing David and Jill as co therapists in service of Keren was an amazing learning opportunity! The power between them was exponential and felt like they successfully addressed every angle. . . I had not considered using EOV and loved how effective that was in crushing Keren's thoughts. I also loved how Jill finessed gently guiding her to address Hidden Emotion, having clear conviction that this was where the "action" was. I can understand what Keren said that she wants to be closer but does not want to be enmeshed. I think that it helped us in our work with immigrants and those who live away from where they were born. The discussion about the desire to be a parent or not, was another aspect of the work that I really respected. Excellent class tonight! Keren's gift to the class was priceless and David and Jill's masterful teaching was outstanding as always. Thank you!!! I got to feel closer to her and to several group members through their sharing. David touched me with the notion that opening up to one's parents is an important gift that many of them don't get to receive. Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Keren, Jill, and David
Andy is joined by Dan for a shorter Breakdown as the gents talk through; The reasons for the delays of the unclassified report due to Congress on the 31st October thats STILL not out yet. What we do knowWhat this means going forwardOpposing NYT/The Hill articlesAn interview with 'Estimate of the Situation' creatorsAnd moreJulian Barnes article; https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/ufo-military-reports.html?smid=url-shareMarik Article ; https://thehill.com/opinion/international/3723079-pro-and-anti-ufo-factions-in-government-it-wouldnt-be-the-first-time/EOTS https://www.blacktielabs.nyc/shopMissing 411 trailer; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrq11wbarUSpotify listeners can now access premium content here > https://open.spotify.com/show/7wnXUAQ3vwdsX1BoyaEvjZSign up to support the podcast via Patreon.com/ThatUFOPodcast or Apple Podcast subscriptions (2 week free trial available)Please support our show sponsors;Babbel, learn a new language today - zen.ai/ufobabbelBetterHelp - 10% off first month with http://www.BetterHelp.com/ThatUFOPartnerhero: to waive set up fees, go to https://www.partnerhero.com/thatufo and mention “That UFO Podcast” during onboarding!Zencastr Advertise - Advertise your business on this and other podcasts follow zen.ai/thatufopod1You can also sign up to Zencastr with 40% off for 3 months with promo code: ufopodcast at https://zencastr.com/pricing?coupon=ufopodcast&fpr=7ooh0 . Start recording your own podcast or meetings today!Buy the official podcast map/guide to UK UFO sightings here; https://www.herblester.com/products/the-skies-aboveGet in touch with the show;Twitter: @UFOUAPAMFacebook, YouTube & Instagram: "That UFO Podcast"YouTube: YouTube.com/c/ThatUFOPodcastEmail: UFOUAPAM@gmail.comLinktr.ee/ufouapamLinktr.ee/TheZignalDon't forget to subscribe, like and leave a review of the showEnjoy folks!Andy
Today, you will hear the the second half of the live therapy session that Dr. Jill Levitt and I did with Nazli, a young woman from Turkey, at our recent “David Burns Live” workshop on May 22, 2022. Nazli has been struggling with intense performance anxiety and generalized anxiety, and generously who volunteered to be a “patient.” Jill and I are very grateful for Nazli's courage in sharing herself so courageously with all of you, and hope you enjoy the session and learn from it. Last week, we played the first half of the therapy session, including the initial T =Testing and E = Empathy. Today, you will hear the exciting conclusion, including A = Assessment of Resistance and M = Methods, and final T = Testing. As a reminder, you can review the Daily Mood Log and Brief Mood Survey (BMS) that Nazli filled out at the start of the session. Part 2 of the Nazli Session: A = Assessment of Resistance and M = Methods After a period of empathizing, Nazli gave Jill and David an A in Empathy, so we moved on to the Assessment of Resistance portion of the session. This often involves the following steps: Invitation Step Miracle Cure Question Magic Button Positive Reframing Pivot Question Magic Dial Jill issued a Straightforward Invitation, asking Nazli if she was ready to get down to work, or if she needed more time to vent. She said she was ready to go to work, so Jill asked what changes she was hoping for during the session. This is the so-called “Miracle Cure Question.” This helps to focus the session on something specific. Nazli said that her hope was to reduce or eliminate the negative thoughts and feelings that were making her clinical work so stressful. And like nearly everyone, she said she'd eagerly press the Magic Button. Then Jill and David pointed out that although we didn't have a Magic Button, we did have some powerful techniques that could help, but it might not be the best idea to use them. That's because there might be some positives hidden in her negative thoughts and feelings, and perhaps we should first take a look. David and Jill asked Nazli these three questions: 1. Given your circumstances, why might this negative thought or feeling be totally appropriate and understandable? 2. What are some benefits, or advantages of this negative thought or feeling? 3. What does this negative thought or feeling show about you and your core values that's positive, beautiful, or even awesome? This technique is called Positive Reframing. The goal of Positive Reframing is to reduce the patient's subconscious resistance to change, along with their feelings of shame about their symptoms.. Paradoxically, the moment patients see the beautiful and awesome things about their negative thoughts and feelings, their resistance to change typically disappears. Positive Reframing is one of the unique features of TEAM-CBT and it opens the door to the possibility of rapid change. As an exercise, see if you can find some positives in five of Nazli's feelings, Anxiety Ashamed, bad Inadequate Hopeless Angry Please do this on paper, and NOT in your head, using the blank Positive Reframing Tool you'll find at the end of the Daily Mood Log. Getting it “right” isn't important. What is important is trying. This will get your brain circuits firing in a new way. Then, when you see the work that we did with Nazli, you might have your own “ah-ha” moment, as well as a powerful new skill that may be helpful to you as well. Okay. Did you do that yet, or do you plan to look at the answer without doing the exercise? Oh! I see! You're planning to look at the answer. If you want to learn at a deep level, whether you're a therapist or lay person, do the exercise first! It may be challenging at first, but it will fire up your brain circuits, so when you look at the answer, you'll suddenly have a new and deeper understanding of Positive Reframing. When you're done, you can check this link to see the work that Jill and I did with Nazli. But either way, I'm grateful that you're listening to these podcasts and reading the show notes! If you click on this link, you can find the Emotions table from Nazli's Daily Mood Log showing her goals for each negative feeling after we use the Magic Dial. After we finished the Magic Dial, we went on to the M = Methods portion of the TEAM-CBT session, and helped Nazli challenge some of her negative thoughts using a variety of techniques including Explain the Distortions, the Externalization of Voices, Examine the Evidence, the Acceptance Paradox, and more. One of the thoughts she wanted to work on first was this one: “If I don't fix this patient or make him/her satisfied, then she/he will judge me and think poorly about me.” Together with Nazli, we identified a number of distortions in this thought, including a couple more that popped into my mind while doing the show notes: Fortune-Telling: Making a negative prediction without good evidence. Mind-Reading: Assuming that I know how my patients are thinking. Hidden Should Statement: Telling myself I should be doing better. Mental Filtering: Selectively noticing the times sessions have not gone well. Discounting the Positive: Overlooking the positive feedback I typically get from patients and supervisors. Magnification and Minimization: Magnifying the importance or “awfulness” of negative feedback from patients, and overlooking the potential value of processing their negative and positive feedback with them at the next session. Emotional Reasoning: Thinking that my feelings of inadequacy and anxiety mean that I really am screwing up with patients Self-Blame: Beating up on myself constantly when I'm seeing patients. Nazli's belief in this thought went down from 80% to the range of 10% - 20%, since there was some truth in the thought. Sometimes you'll want to smash a negative thought, so your belief in it goes all the way to zero. Sometimes, it's okay just to reduce your belief in a thought substantially, but not all the way to zero. We also encouraged Nazli to begin using the Brief Mood Survey (BMS) and Patient's Evaluation of Therapy Session (EOTS) with every patient at every session so she can get immediate and accurate feedback of how she's doing, and so she can fine-tune her therapeutic strategies based on this information. This practice is vastly more effective than Mind-Reading, since therapists' perceptions of how patients feel tend to be wildly inaccurate most of the time. If you are a therapist, T = Testing at start and end of every is a vitally important key to personal and professional growth, although it takes courage because sometimes—or even often—you will have to confront some information that may threaten your feelings of pride! You can see Nazli's final ratings of her feelings on the Emotions table her Daily Mood Log at the end of the session. Since the changes in all of her negative feelings were dramatic, we asked Nazli two questions: 1. Are these ratings valid, or are you just trying to please David and Jill? 2. If so, what were the effective ingredients of your session. What, more than anything else, accounted for the significant and rapid changes you experienced? You will hear how she answered these vitally important questions on the podcast, and you can see Nazli's BMS and EOTS after her session if you click the link. Thanks for tuning in last week and today! Once again, Rhonda, Jill and I want to thank our wonderful and courageous Nazli from the bottom of our hearts! We hope you enjoyed this session, and the chance to look behind closed doors to see how psychotherapy actually works in a real session with a real human being who, like nearly all of us, struggles at times with that ancient belief that “I'm just not good enough!” In fact, we're all, in many ways, “not good enough,” and will probably never be “good enough.” But that is never the cause of our problems, especially our lack of self-esteem. Do you know what the actual cause is? Do you know what the solution is? Take your best shot, make a guess, and then you can click on this link. Thanks! Rhonda, Jill, Nazli, and David
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