Podcast appearances and mentions of todd greer

Celebrating 300 Episodes of The Nonprofit Exchange During the past 8 years, we have conducted 300 interviews with some really great people who have shared their wisdom, experiences (both good and bad), and subject matter knowledge to help nonprofit leaders and clergy grow their skill, build higher performing teams, and learn how to attract more revenue to be able to more fully achieve their mission. This episode will consist of the following SynerVision Leaders in a panel discussion: Dr. Todd Greer Dr. Todd Greer is a results-driven developer. Working alongside an individual, team, program, or organization, he partners with them to envision what is possible and shapes the direction to reach this new reality. His life journey has led him through experiences in Politics, Higher Ed, Ministry, Non-profits, Team development, and Startups equipping him to serve leaders and students in a variety of fields. Learning from the strengths of mentors and colleagues, he says, "I been blessed with a holistic focus in the real-world examination of problems for their effective solutions." Specialties: Talent Development, Ideation and Strategy, Lean Startups, Organizational Leadership and Change, Coaching, and Non-Profit Consulting. Russell Dennis Russell David Dennis is a SynerVision WayFinder assisting leaders of nonprofits in running high-performing charities generating enough income to achieve their missions. When you decide to make a difference in the world on your own terms, it is worthwhile to have a conversation with Russell Dennis before you start. His unique blend of experiences, coupled with the business and personal challenges he has overcome, can help you avoid pitfalls that set you back. Focusing on nonprofit difference makers, he provides tools that are easy to access, understand, and implement, that get you results and move you and your organization in the direction you want to go. Russell has been co-host for The Nonprofit Exchange for multiple episodes and brings valuable wisdom to the program. Hugh Ballou Hugh Ballou is a Transformational Leadership Strategist and the Founder and President of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. After forty years of musical conducting experience, he now works as executive coach, process facilitator, trainer, and motivational speaker teaching leaders in many diverse fields the fine-tuned skills employed every day by orchestral conductors. Hugh is the author of ten books on Transformational Leadership and is a recognized expert in working with nonprofit leaders and clergy as well as top leaders in multi-national corporations through his business, SynerVision International, Inc. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My secret weapon to reading more books is a friendly annual Goodreads competition with my childhood friend Todd Greer. Todd is joining the podcast today to share about motivating each other to read more books. We have discovered how we read is very different from one another, but we usually end up almost at the same amount of books every year. We will dive into that more and learn about a few books I haven't gotten to read yet this year. Books Mentioned in Today's EpisodeJoin the Patreon Community For the Bonus ContentProject Hail Mary by Andy WeirPrice of Time by Tim TignerBilly Summers by Stephen KingEffortless by Greg McKeownThe Other Wes Moore by Wes MooreWe Hope for Better Things by Erin Bartels Also Mentioned in Today's EpisodeTodd Greer on GoodreadsEnneagramStrengthsfinder 2.0 by Tom RathGoodreadsSleep headphonesScribdKindleRyan HollidayRobert GreenWill WheatonThe Martian by Andy WeirAndy Wier Interview on MomAdvice11/22/63 by Stephen KingIt by Stephen KingLaura TremaineEssentialism by Greg McKeownMihaly CsikszentmihalyiGreenlights by Matthew McConaugheyPower of Ritual by Casper her KuileThe One by John MarrsLucky Boy by Shanthi SekaranBryce CourtenayJoin the Patreon Community For the Bonus Content

The idea for Veterans Recovery Resources came to John through time and experience. John is a combat veteran of Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm (1990-91), Kosovo (2005-06), and Kuwait in support of Operation Enduring Freedom (2015). He has over 31 years of reserve military service including 12 years as an intelligence analyst in the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve and over 18 years as a Medical Service Corps Officer in the U.S. Army Reserve. He also served an eighteen-month tour at the Pentagon in the Office of the Surgeon General at Headquarters, Department of the Army (2009-2010). While John's specialty is hospital administration, he brings the credibility of being a Veteran himself. John has walked in the shoes of Veterans and those in recovery. He has seen the challenges facing Veterans in receiving the timely and quality care they need, as well as the community of fellowship that is so key to leading a successful civilian life in recovery. John has a bold vision for how military Veterans can recover from the trauma and issues they face. That vision is Veterans Recovery Resources. After the Veterans Access, Choice, and Accountability Act of 2014 expanded the use of non-Veterans Affairs care for veterans located more than 40 miles from a Veterans Affairs facility, and for those for whom care is not available in a timely fashion, John decided to act. He launched the organization in 2015 and created a Board of Directors with Jim Ware and Mike Plattenburg. He started working with Todd Greer and Dr. Joe Currier. The Advisory Board grew. The momentum for Veterans Recovery Resources continues to grow because the need is so dire. John and his team are committed to making Veterans Recovery Resources a reality. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/changeyourpov/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/changeyourpov/support

Todd Greer is one of the up-and-coming business people on the Gulf Coast.  On this podcast, we talked about the Exchange 202, his work at the University of Mobile, and how he became known as a bow-tie wearer. Lots of information and lots of fun.  One of our very best interviews.

Todd Greer is one of the up-and-coming business people on the Gulf Coast.  On this podcast, we talked about the Exchange 202, his work at the University of Mobile, and how he became known as a bow-tie wearer. Lots of information and lots of fun.  One of our very best interviews.

Allen Cave discusses leadership in the business and life of Dr. Todd Greer. Todd is a startup & innovation coach and the Vice President For Academic Affairs at The University of Mobile. Being a developer of others, Todd shares his holistic formula for leading students, organizations, companies, and academia from their present-day reality to reaching their full potential and making the impact they want on their own lives and their communities.   Resources Dr. Todd Greer  -  Facebook  |  Twitter  |  Instagram  |  Linkedin University of Mobile  -  Facebook  |  Twitter  |  Instagram  |  Linkedin   Follow Playing Above The Line on Facebook Please Rate, Review & Subscribe to Playing Above The Line On Apple Allen Cave Twitter LinkedIn   Want to know more about Dennis and Allen?  Visit our website, avizogroup.com

Introducing our real-life Bob-Ullet, Dr. Todd Greer! If you’re a Bob-Ullet, you’re all business up front and party in the back. Ruling the roost in ties and suits, and livin’ it up on the weekends at your favorite haunt. You work hard and play hard. You can learn more about Bob-Ullet in episode 011. In this episode, we talk with Dr. Todd Greer who is representing the Bob-Ullets of the workplace. Dr. Greer has been a successful professor, speaker, preacher, coach, non-profit director, business founder and owner. We’re pretty sure there is nothing this man can’t do! Dr. Greer serves at the University of Mobile as their VP of Academic Affairs and shares his Stand Out Tips for Bob-Ullets to be able to maximize your gifts and minimize your deficits. As a Boss, you’ll walk away from this interview with Todd equipped to make an impression, demonstrate your worth, and expand your influence, and enjoy your job. Follow Dr. Todd Greer on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.   You can watch the video of this episode on our YouTube Channel. Be sure to check out our website, Impresstheboss.com. Get our daily Stand Out Tips on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn. #impresstheboss … share your stories and join our crew!   Podcast production by Studio C Creative Sound in San Diego, CA.

Todd Greer from the University of Mobile and cofounder of the Exchange 202 talks about bowties, Michigan, and why he loves it here on the Gulf Coast.

Todd Greer from the University of Mobile and cofounder of the Exchange 202 talks about bowties, Michigan, and why he loves it here on the Gulf Coast.

Contact Us: bedsidemanners@gowithadvanced.com Website: https://gowithadvanced.com/bedsidemanners Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/advancedtravelnursing Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/advancedtravelnursing Produced by: Jonathan Cary Music and Editing by: Aidan Dykes Powered by: Advanced Travel Nursing

On this week's podcast, Marcus sits down with Todd Greer. Todd is the Dean of the School of Business at the University of Mobile. He is passionate about Mobile's entrepreneurial community and finding ways energize and help it thrive. Listen to this week's podcast to see how he's doing this at the University of Mobile and beyond!

SUMMARY     Matt: Hey, I'm Matt Gray, founder of Leveld. Marcus: Awesome, Matt. Well it's good to have you on the podcast. Matt: Thanks for having me, I appreciate it. Marcus: Yeah, absolutely. So we'll get into a little bit about what Leveld is here in just a minute, but to get started, why don't you tell us the story of Matt. Where are you from? Where did you go to high school? Did you go to college? Married? Anything else you want to share with the audience. Matt: Well I'm a simple creature for the most part. So yeah, I grew up in ... born in Alabama, actually born up near Birmingham, spent a lot of my childhood in Alabama, grew up just out in West Mobile, I actually grew up in Mississippi, West Mobile was always our home. Marcus: That is considered West Mobile by now, right? Matt: Yeah, well you know, some people argue that, right? Marcus: [crosstalk 00:00:51] Matt: Yeah, yeah. So I grew up in Mississippi, all my family is there. Went to school there in Mississippi, near Hattiesburg, I actually graduated high school there, little small town called Purvis, Mississippi, and from there, went to school at Mississippi State University, got my engineering degree. Mechanical Engineering is my background, so the tech venture and all of the things that I'm diving into here with Leveld has been new for me. But yeah, I'm a single entrepreneur if you will. I've spent a lot of my early career, early life traveling the world. My first career out of college took me abroad to about nine different countries, so I spent the first three to four years living out of a suitcase if you will. So just kind of traveling around. I spent a lot of time in Asia and Africa, and made my way back here to Mobile about a year and a half ago, to this area, and started trying to figure out what's next for Matt, what's next in the journey. So I kind of came up with the concept of Leveld, and it started getting really rooted here in this area, here in Mobile on the eastern shore, so this has just kind of been where I set up shop if you will. Marcus: Yeah. Matt: Spending all of my time here, so. I'm calling it home if you will. I'm putting down a flag. Marcus: Yeah. I know you ... I mean, when we talked originally, you had mentioned that you were doing a lot of traveling and stuff- Matt: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Marcus: So I'm glad to hear that some of that's calming down, because I know that as Leveld kind of grows, that the focus you're going to need to have is ... traveling is not going to mix well with that. Matt: Sure. Well there's a good bit of personal time that you could use there that works well for you. I get a lot of my inspiration, a lot of the great ideas I've had, I've learned from abroad, my travels abroad, but yeah, absolutely. It's imperative I guess at this point, when you're trying to launch a business or a company or anything like that, you really have to spend a lot of your time and focus in the business and not so much in airports and traveling, so it's got its balance for sure, so yeah. Marcus: So tell us about Leveld. Matt: Okay. Marcus: What is it? What do people need to know? Matt: So when I kind of brand it to people and people who have no idea what we're doing, I pitch it as we're just like Airbnb, but for tools and equipment. So granted, I'm not licensed to use Airbnb as a reference or their name, but we're taking that platform and we've kind of put our own little spin on it. We've innovated a little bit in trying to implement that type of marketplace, peer to peer interaction, into a new industry that really hasn't had much of that yet. If any yet. So Leveld is an out based marketplace, essentially, where we bring together two people who have a problem. We have, on one side, we have people who have tools, equipment, whether it be large equipment, small equipment, lawn equipment, whatever that is, might have that in their house, their garage. We tend to find, or at least I have so far, where you have a lot of angry spouses who said, "Oh, I've got a garage full of stuff that I would love for my spouse to get out there and get out of our way." So you have these people who have a lot of inventory that's not being utilized. They spend a lot of money, it's being used a few times a year, and it's just kind of thrown out of the way, right? Out of sight, out of mind. So that's one side of the fence. On the other side of the fence, we have people who need items throughout the year to do projects around their home, whether it's a DIY project or some kind of larger undertaking that they've decided to do themselves- Marcus: Renovating a potential office space. Matt: Renovating, right. Building a new office space, absolutely. Just like you. After this is over, hit me up, we might could work. But yeah, you have folks who don't necessarily want to invest time and money in purchasing things, they don't have space to store things, and maybe they don't use it but a few times a year or a few times every couple of years, so it doesn't make economic sense for them to buy something. So the polar opposites there, that's what we're here to connect. So we created this marketplace where we can allow people to put their own items on there. They set their own price, they set their own availability to rent it in and out, and it's a great way for those folks to make some passive income, right? I mean, they've got a lot of money invested potentially into these things, and it's just sitting around, so why not put it out there to work for you? Marcus: Now, I mean, I'm keenly aware because I have tons of tools that literally just sit, and my issue is just time. You know, like the idea of sitting down, and I'm sure this is going to get easier. And I'm not making a judgment call on the app, so let's be clear, but even just sitting down for two or three minutes would be a bit much right now with a renovation project and running a business, but getting some of those in so that I can make those kinds of transactions is interesting to me because I've got all kinds of power tools and torque wrenches and all kinds of other stuff that just sits around unused, so. But yeah. Go back in your history to your first job, and not your first engineering job, but your first burger flipping job or sweeping the floor job, that job. Your first crap job, how about that? Were there any lessons that you still remember from that? Matt: My first job that I ever had, I started when I was fifteen years old working for a local ... he was an entrepreneur himself, he was very successful in real estate and construction, and he had a large farm, and I went to work for him afternoons after school, weekends, that type of thing. And even today, when I'm going through a challenge or when I'm faced with something in business or even in my "day job", there's one thing that resonates with me from working for him, and one thing he used to say all the time, he said, "If there's a will, there's a way." So anytime you're in business, anytime you come across challenges, there is a way, I should say, if you're willing to look for it. If you look hard enough. And that's been something that really has resonated for me. Yeah, is to really think about that anytime you hit a roadblock. If there's a will, there's a way to get around this, there's a way to get through it. Marcus: Absolutely. Matt: Yeah. Marcus: Yeah. And setting your intentions on that positive outlook versus, "Oh my gosh, the sky is falling." Matt: Right. If you focused on the negative, you'd just give up and quit, right? If you focused on the negative, you wouldn't be moving into a new office space, right? You wouldn't be growing your business. So you have to be able to look at the positive side of it and think, "Well, there's always an out. There's always a way to get around something." Right? So- Marcus: Yeah. No, very good. Matt: And search it out. Marcus: So tell us a little bit about how you started Leveld? How did that come to fruition and what efforts have you kind of undertaken so far? Matt: So the idea came about, I was sitting in a conference actually through my prior job, and we were listening to a speaker, the keynote speaker, his name was Jack Uldrich, and he was ... and he is, I think, a New York best-selling author, I guess, if you will ... New York Times best-selling author. And he was giving a presentation on kind of the evolution of technology, and he was really kind of looking in the present where we are and kind of flipping backwards in real time on the screen as to where we came from, what we were. Really, he focused around Uber, right? Twenty years ago, no one would have thought about sharing a car with a random stranger- Marcus: Shoot, man. Five years ago, nobody would have thought about it. Matt: Well five years ago, for sure, and he was really showing the rapid expansion of technology in about a twenty year span, so he was kind of flipping back and forth between twenty years and now, present day. This was a year and a half, two years ago that I sat through that, and that's really started resonating with me, thinking about how we've made strides. And he kind of hit on Airbnb as well, we talked about that at a great deal of length. And now you have a marketplace where strangers are interacting, and the largest hotel chain in the world doesn't actually own a hotel, right? They don't have any inventory, they don't have any "employees". So he was really diving into that, and he made a comment in passing, "Who knows what could be next? We could change how we rent the things in our closet out or how we work independently with each other and start interacting with people on a day to day basis." And when he mentioned renting out things in your house, my mind kind of started working, thinking about, "What do I have in my house that other people might want?" Right? Marcus: Right. Matt: And it came across about a week and a half later, at that time, I was helping my girlfriend at the time who I was dating, and she had a project and didn't have the tools that we needed to get it finished, and I thought, "Man, if I only had a neighbor down the street or if I only knew someone down the street." You know? So it all just started coming together. At that point, the wheels were put into motion, I guess, and I thought back to that presentation and how we were talking about, "Man, this could be a great platform to use. If I'm needing this, there's probably someone else out there needing something similar." You know? Marcus: It's wild how something in passing that somebody said can spawn off a completely different- Matt: Right. Marcus: Yeah. It's incredible. Matt: And his presentation was an hour long, and I took away maybe a ten second blip of that and thought about it long enough that it resonated with me throughout the weeks and days after. Marcus: Now I think it's fair to say, you've been planning this for awhile, but you're still fairly new into this venture? Matt: Right. Yeah. Marcus: Is that fair to say? Matt: Yeah, I started planning it quite awhile back actually. Marcus: Yeah. But if you were talking to someone that was wanting to get started in running their own business, what's the one bit of wisdom that you would impart to them? Because obviously you ... as you've been going through this process, you've learned some things. Matt: I've learned a great deal, absolutely, and I guess it all goes back to what I said a moment ago. If there's a will, there's a way. I had really no business contacts in Mobile. I had a lot of friends here, I've been in the area most of my life, so it really goes back to the beginning when I thought about the idea, and I had no clue where to get started, and I just started reaching out to everyone I could think of, and making cold calls, and cold emailing as I call it, just reaching out to individuals in the city that I thought might could point me in the right direction. So if there are people out there, and I talk to them all the time, that are trying to get started and do their entrepreneur thing if you will, I always tell them that. I always say, "Look. If you want to get into it and you've got a great idea and you're passionate about it, you need to find the right people. The right people that can help you push that along." And when I got started, I connected one person, and they connected me with two people, and those two connected me with four, and then it's just growing in that way. Marcus: Yeah. Network can be everything when it comes to that. Matt: Yeah, and it's not so much networking in the sense where you go out to social hour and have a drink, it was more or less just connecting, "Hey, you've got this idea. I know this person is working on something similar." And then you kind of start building that out. So it was networking unintentionally. It just started building upon itself, and that's one aspect of it I tell people, you really can't be afraid to get out and just start knocking on doors and trying to find people. I was able to reach out to our local chamber, some of the folks there at the time, and they put me in connection with a few folks at the small business group and the entrepreneur center out at south, and then that kind of expanded into Exchange 202, and then it just ... the network's been building ever since. Marcus: It grew from there. Matt: Yeah. Absolutely. Marcus: If you look to the business world, is there someone that motivates you or that you kind of look to and think, "Yeah, I want to get there." Or they've got some skillset like you're ... yeah. Matt: There's a lot of people. There's people from my past. I mentioned the gentleman awhile back that I worked for when I was just starting. He's passed on now, but he was an entrepreneur from the beginning, right? He had been through a lot of financial hardships I believe, and he had been able to rebuild himself and rebrand himself and come back and achieve success ultimately. So he was one I really looked up to just from a ... what's the word? From a persistence- Marcus: A mindset, yeah persistence. Matt: Yeah, persistence standpoint. He never backed down from a challenge. If there was a problem, whether it be a legal issue or financial issue, he always found a work around, he always found a way to get through it and be successful on the other side. There are some folks here that I've met just on this journey in Mobile, somebody from a mindset perspective and a thought perspective, Todd Greer here in Mobile. Todd is a phenomenal individual. Marcus: He keeps coming up. That name and Mel Washington. Those are the names that are kind of ingrained in our- Matt: Well, I can't leave Mel out either, I was going there next. Mel was the first person I connected with in Mobile, and he brought a huge amount of enthusiasm to the project that we're working on with Leveld, and then he helped me meet Todd, and Todd helped me meet the others, and ended up recommending you as well, so it all kind of came through together. So yeah, those two guys just bring a wealth of knowledge, but there's been so many people along the way. I look at the business culture here in Mobile, a lot of entrepreneurs that are starting out, young and old, I think there's something to learn from each of those. Each of their backgrounds, each of their experiences. If you look at the pool here, it is deep. We have a lot of great talent here, and there's a lot of folks here that I look up to. Yeah, absolutely. Marcus: That's very cool. Are there any books or other organizations outside of the ones you've mentioned that have been helpful in moving you forward? Matt: Books? Yeah. Marcus: What are you reading right now? Matt: I tend to read ... so I actually found this book the other day that had been thrown out ... not thrown out, I should say. It had been given to me awhile back and I kind of tossed it aside, never really circled back to it, but it's called "On Fire" it's by John O'Leary, and if you've never heard of John O'Leary, look him up, he's an incredible inspiration, and not just from an entrepreneurial standpoint, but he was injured severely as a child, near death experience. Spent six months in the hospital I think, came back from it. But he puts just such a positive vibe on everything, and basically it's not what happens to you, it's how you respond to it. So I think that goes a long way in life, but that goes a long way as well in business too because there are challenges every day that you face, right? Marcus: Right. Absolutely. Matt: And I face. And you've got to kind of figure out, okay, well I can't change what's happened here. How do we push forward? What do we do? Whether it's money, whether it's any other situation that might come up. So I found that book, I've been reading that. "Lean Start Up" was a good book, that's one that Todd had recommended to me in the beginning. Marcus: Kind of appropriate for you. Matt: Yeah. That was kind of the bible at the beginning, right? Trying to understand and just kind of get introduced into the world a bit more. So, that was a great book. Yeah. That's been the couple that really stick out to me right now, and then I read a book, my mother actually gave to me for my 30th birthday, and it was called "Detour", and it's more of a spiritual, religious type book, and she had given it to me I guess because mothers love in their own bounds, right? So she had given me the book, and I kind of tossed it aside, but it really talks about your life and journey through that, and I really felt like there was a lot of parallels in the business/entrepreneurship side of things too, that really take you through a lot of detours if you will, right? When you get momentum or you get things moving forward, and then all of a sudden you've got a little bit of a sidetrack. Marcus: Yeah. Matt: So- Marcus: We've changed the term from detours to pivot, you know? Right? But it is what it is. You're going to hit something and it's going to change your direction whether you want to call it a detour or a pivot, which is the more modern term. You just have to ... it's a guaranteed. Matt: Sure. Marcus: You just kind of have to accept that's going to be the way things go. Running a business or founding a company is much like the game Plinko, where you stick a quarter or something or a ball in the top and it kind of bounces around. Matt: That's right. Marcus: That is the life of a business owner. Matt: That's right. And you never know where it's going to land until the chips fall. Absolutely. Marcus: What's the most important thing that you've learned about running a business? Matt: Responsibility I think would probably be that. I mean, there's no one looking over your shoulder to tell you what you need to do next. You have to be persistent, you have to be aggressive, you have to be out thinking the next move if you will. And I knew that, right? I say I knew that. I kind of had a sense that, "Hey, this is what a business life is like." But when there's no one there to hold you accountable, it's up to you to achieve success or wither and die. So I think for me, it's the accountability part of things. When you go out and you're looking for investors or you go out to talk with a banker about raising or acquiring some funds to get things started, they're not ... you don't have a ton for them to base things off of, right? They're really putting their money in you as a person, and I think that's been important for me to learn and understand, and I hold that value very close to me because I feel like I am the person that's accountable. I am the person that's looking over my own shoulder if you will to make sure that, "Hey, you're doing all you can to make this a success." We've pushed it this far. You've got to push it the next mile and just trying to keep one up yourself if you will. Marcus: I think people underestimate the ... what's the word I'm looking for? They underestimate the pressure that it takes to even just be able to make the decisions that are required for running a business. Matt: Sure. I had to ... in the beginning, I had to make a decision whether or not I was going to personally spend my own money to fund the beginning of the project. I mean- Marcus: [crosstalk 00:18:42] Matt: We couldn't find the investors, we couldn't find ... right? In the market we were in, we had to proof it out, we had to come up with our MVP, so that was all on my shoulders to do that. So there were a lot of sleepless nights after writing that check or clicking send on that wire transfer, yeah. Absolutely. It's a lot of stress that goes into making the big decisions that have to be made, and no one else can do it for you. Marcus: Well it's even the small ones, too. Even the small decisions, because there's this thing that many people don't know about called decision fatigue, right? So I'm just speaking from personal experience. Getting out of the office at night, sometimes seven, eight, nine o'clock or later, the last thing I even want to think about is what I need to eat. So it's literally just like just go home and have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich because I don't even want to think about that. I just want to go home and get something in me that's going to take away the pain in my stomach, you know? Matt: Right. Right. Marcus: And I don't think people really understand just how even making small decisions throughout the day, all of those get tossed on top of the pile of the larger decisions too, and you get to the end of the day, or the end of the week, or the end of the month, or the end of the year, and you're just like, "Good night, I'm just over this." But I get what you're saying as a business owner, not having somebody else. That's not there for you to bounce those ideas from. There's nobody there that's telling you what to do. There's nobody there that's ultimately going to take responsibility, it lands on your shoulders. Matt: That's right. Yeah, and it's difficult too when you don't have someone who shares a ... maybe your vision, or maybe they don't share your aggression towards the project, so they don't understand exactly how you're looking into it, right? So when you don't have those types of people to bounce ideas off of, it comes back to you, and you have to think through, and like I said a moment ago, you really have to anticipate the next move before you even get close to it so that you can understand a little bit more about, how risky is this situation? How risky will this decision be if it goes wrong? That type of thing. Marcus: No, very good. How do you like to unwind? This is the hardest question. Matt: Outdoors. I love being outdoors. We live in an incredible place here in Mobile on the bay, the beach, right here on the coast. So I love being outdoors, whether it's on a boat, fishing, riding my bike. That's what I get the most stress free weekends, I guess, come from being out on the beach with a book or something, just hanging out, no thoughts in mind. Marcus: Well tell people where they can find out more about Leveld and get the app and all that other stuff. Matt: Sure. Sure. So the app is available for download now in the IOS store. So currently, we're only in the IOS store. We're looking to expand to the Android market hopefully by the end of this year. Marcus: Cool. Matt: But yeah, you can check it out there. And then you can also go on our website, , it's L-E-V-E-L-D. So it's Leveld misspelled. Yes, that was intentional. Marcus: Because you can imagine Leveld all spelled out correctly was probably quite expensive as a domain name. Matt: Well and it makes no sense. Why would you spell it correctly when you can spell it wrong? Marcus: Yeah, exactly. Matt: So there's an interesting story behind that as well, but yeah, you can find out about that on ... and check us out on social as well. We're on  and  @GetLevld as well. Marcus: Nice. Well I want to thank you again for coming on the podcast. To wrap up, any final thoughts or comments you'd like to share?  Matt: Thank you, man. I appreciate you having me. I want to acknowledge you for a moment. Small business of the year in Mobile. That's big for yourself and your team here at Bluefish- Marcus: Very much so. Thank you. Matt: Congratulations on that, and just the work you're doing here with Mobile and what you're trying to do with getting the word out here in Mobile for a lot of the cool stuff that's happening. So yeah, I want to acknowledge you for that as well. Marcus: Yeah, I mean, we've kind of moved away from this, but Jared reminded me of it earlier today because we've recorded ... you're our fifth podcast of the day. Matt: Nice. Marcus: Yeah. Matt: It was strong, I hope. Marcus: Yeah. No, absolutely. No, where I was going to go with that is we started this because we wanted to be cheerleaders for the business community and we wanted to share the stories of people like you and the cool things that are happening here because I think oftentimes, those stories get lost in the larger picture of Airbus and Austal and some of the larger job providers here, but the truth is that Mobile is an economy made up of individuals like you and like me that are providing jobs for fifteen, 20, 30 people or so, and there's just a plethora of people out there that are doing that. Matt: And one thing that's cool I'd like to mention and showcase, even when we launched, my big message pushing Mobile has been the people that are here, the culture that we're building, a lot of the young talent that's here that's coming up with ideas, and they're expanding on it and they're building it. It's bringing a lot of attention to Mobile, right? Marcus: Yeah. Matt: Far too long, Birmingham, Hunstville, they had gotten a lot more of the attention. I think it's time to bring some of that attention south. Bring it to Mobile, bring it to the gold coast here if you will, and I think there's a lot of cool stuff happening especially exciting things, big projects here that are going to be expanding and exploding out of Mobile soon, so it's exciting. Marcus: I couldn't agree with you more because I think I knows some of the same people you're talking about. Well I appreciate your willingness to sit with me and share your journey as a business owner and entrepreneur. It's been great talking with you. Matt: Thanks. Absolutely.

Summary: The idea for Veterans Recovery Resources came to John through time and experience. John is a combat Veteran of Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm (1990-91), Kosovo (2005-06) and Kuwait in support of Operation Enduring Freedom (2015). He has over 31 years reserve military service including 12 years as an intelligence analyst in the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve and over 18 years as a Medical Service Corps Officer in the U.S. Army Reserve. He also served an eighteen month tour at the Pentagon in the Office of the Surgeon General at Headquarters, Department of the Army (2009-2010). While John’s specialty is hospital administration, he brings the credibility of being a Veteran himself. John has walked in the shoes of Veterans and those in recovery. He has seen the challenges facing Veterans in receiving the timely and quality care they need, as well as the community of fellowship that is so key to leading a successful civilian life in recovery. John has a bold vision for how military Veterans can recover from the trauma and issues they face. That vision is Veterans Recovery Resources. After the Veterans Access, Choice and Accountability Act of 2014 expanded the use of non-Veterans Affairs care for veterans located more than 40 miles from a Veterans Affairs facility, and for those for whom care is not available in a timely fashion, John decided to act. He launched the organization in 2015 and created a Board of Directors with Jim Ware and Mike Plattenburg. He started working with Todd Greer and Dr. Joe Currier. The Advisory Board grew. The momentum for Veterans Recovery Resources continues to grow because the need is so dire. John and his team are committed to making Veterans Recovery Resources a reality.  In This Particular Episode You Will Learn: How Veterans Recovery Resources began The need for collaboration rather than competition when it comes to veteran mental health Getting treatment where you live VRR's Peer Support Symposium The Crisis Period of suicide 360 Degree person fitness John's personal recovery story the Army's Confidential Alcohol Treatment and Education Program (CATEP) Connection to others as a key to wellness Community Collaboration Links Mentioned in This Episode: South Alabama Veterans Council Veterans Recovery Resources Want to keep up with all of the Head Space and Timing content? Subscribe Here    You can be sure to find future episodes of Head Space and Timing, and all of the CYPOV Podcast Network Shows, by subscribing through your Podcast player of choice, like iTunes. Using an app makes subscribing and listening to podcasts (both ours and others) so much simpler. Just subscribe to Change Your POV Podcast within your app and it will automatically update every time a new episode is released. Do you want to check out Duane's latest book, Combat Vet Don't Mean Crazy? Check it out by finding it on Amazon 

Summary: The idea for Veterans Recovery Resources came to John through time and experience. John is a combat Veteran of Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm (1990-91), Kosovo (2005-06) and Kuwait in support of Operation Enduring Freedom (2015). He has over 31 years reserve military service including 12 years as an intelligence analyst in the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve and over 18 years as a Medical Service Corps Officer in the U.S. Army Reserve. He also served an eighteen month tour at the Pentagon in the Office of the Surgeon General at Headquarters, Department of the Army (2009-2010). While John’s specialty is hospital administration, he brings the credibility of being a Veteran himself. John has walked in the shoes of Veterans and those in recovery. He has seen the challenges facing Veterans in receiving the timely and quality care they need, as well as the community of fellowship that is so key to leading a successful civilian life in recovery. John has a bold vision for how military Veterans can recover from the trauma and issues they face. That vision is Veterans Recovery Resources. After the Veterans Access, Choice and Accountability Act of 2014 expanded the use of non-Veterans Affairs care for veterans located more than 40 miles from a Veterans Affairs facility, and for those for whom care is not available in a timely fashion, John decided to act. He launched the organization in 2015 and created a Board of Directors with Jim Ware and Mike Plattenburg. He started working with Todd Greer and Dr. Joe Currier. The Advisory Board grew. The momentum for Veterans Recovery Resources continues to grow because the need is so dire. John and his team are committed to making Veterans Recovery Resources a reality.  In This Particular Episode You Will Learn: How Veterans Recovery Resources began The need for collaboration rather than competition when it comes to veteran mental health Getting treatment where you live VRR's Peer Support Symposium The Crisis Period of suicide 360 Degree person fitness John's personal recovery story the Army's Confidential Alcohol Treatment and Education Program (CATEP) Connection to others as a key to wellness Community Collaboration Links Mentioned in This Episode: South Alabama Veterans Council Veterans Recovery Resources Want to keep up with all of the Head Space and Timing content? Subscribe Here    You can be sure to find future episodes of Head Space and Timing, and all of the CYPOV Podcast Network Shows, by subscribing through your Podcast player of choice, like iTunes. Using an app makes subscribing and listening to podcasts (both ours and others) so much simpler. Just subscribe to Change Your POV Podcast within your app and it will automatically update every time a new episode is released. Do you want to check out Duane's latest book, Combat Vet Don't Mean Crazy? Check it out by finding it on Amazon 

On this week's podcast, Marcus sits down with Chris Cockrell with Third Realm Creations. We could try and explain everything Chris dips his toes in but we think you should listen to find out! (Hint, hint: he's developing things of the future!) Tune in and listen or read on , Spotify, or iTunes. Chris: I'm Chris Cockrell, and I am co-founder of 3rd Realm Creations. Marcus: Awesome dude. Well, it is great to have you on the podcast today. I am super excited about what you all are bringing to Mobile, so it's awesome to have you here. Chris: Awesome, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Marcus: Well, before we get into what the Realm is, let's talk a little bit about you. Tell us the story of Chris, where you from? Where'd you go to high school? College if you went? If you graduated, married? Any of that back story that you [crosstalk 00:00:31]. Chris: Okay, gotcha. The life story of me. Marcus: Yes. Chris: I grew up in a small town in Mississippi, called Mount Olive, Mississippi. Most people don't know where that is, but- Marcus: I don't. Chris: You wouldn't unless you stopped to take a piss stop in my hometown on the way, on South 49 or North 49. It was a small town, our claim to fame is that's where Steve McNair, the former Hall of Fame quarterback is ... that's his hometown as well. I went to, again, small town, I went to a high school there called Magee High School, and after high school, went to Millsaps college which is in Jackson Mississippi, actually played football there and had a great time there. After college, I met my wife, Lindsey, and we moved to Memphis, Tennessee and we got married and have two kids now, Luke and Blakeney, my son Luke is five, and Blakeney is three. Luke just started kindergarten on Monday, it was his first day at Mary B. Austin, so time flies man, time absolutely flies. I guess my first ... I mean, I've been working since I was 12. I grew up in a small town, so a small town means, it's child labor. Marcus: Yeah, small town, yeah. Chris: That was just pretty much it. 12 years old, you're out working on a farm or picking vegetables or whatever the case may be. Marcus: Cutting grass. Chris: Exactly, but my first real job was as a human resources representative for a long term health care company, and that's pretty much been my entire career up until we started 3rd Realm Creations. Marcus: Well, pause there, because actually I do want ... When we talk to people on this podcast, often times we talk about the first job that they had. What I mean by that is not necessarily the child labor job, but the first job like flipping burgers or scrubbing toilets, or that kind of thing. Did you have- Chris: I did. My first, I guess my first paycheck from a reputable source would have been Dairy Queen. I actually worked at Dairy Queen for ... I mean it was in the summer job, I guess for three summers. I did pretty much everything. I was actually assistant manager at 16 years old. Marcus: 16 years old. Chris: Yeah, 16 years old. Marcus: The reason why we ask about that, because I often times find that people have lessons that they learned at a very early stage of their working life. Are there any lessons that you can remember from looking back at that? If there's something that sticks out? Like the example I always give and people are probably tired of me saying this, is that there's a proper way to mop a floor, and I've learned that working in a bagel shop, so. Chris: That's right. I think the lessons I learned there, your job and your career are going to be what you make it. Whenever you go to work every day, like you said, if your job is to mop floors, mop them the best way that you can. There is a right way to do things and there is a wrong way to do things, and if you do the right things, typically you're rewarded for those things, especially in a professional environment. That doesn't matter if you own your own business or if you work for someone else, it doesn't matter. That's probably the biggest lesson I learned. If you make the best of your situation and the best of your opportunities, and do things the right way, things are going to pay off for you. You're going to advance, you're going to get better, you're going to have those intangible things- Marcus: You're going to see the success then warranted. Chris: Yeah, you're going to see the success. Exactly. You're going to have the success at the end of the road. It's all about your perspective. Marcus: Right. Chris: That wasn't the most glamorous job and there weren't a lot of jobs where I grew up, so I was actually lucky to get that job- Marcus: And the fact that you made assistant manager by age 16 is saying something. I don't know how old you are, but that's not something that you typically would be handed at 16 years old, because there's a lot of responsibility that goes along with that at a fast food place. Chris: There was. I was actually assistant manager over a lot of people that were way older than me at the time, which has its own interesting dynamics, but yeah, I think that's the biggest thing, work hard, understand that there's a right way and a wrong way to do things, do it the right way and stick to it. Marcus: Were you a good student? Chris: I was a good student. Marcus: Good grades and studied hard and did well in math and science and all that stuff? Chris: I don't know about math so much. I thought I was really good in math until I went to college. Actually I made very good grades in high school. Millsaps College is a really tough school to get into. I was very fortunate to get into that school. I played football and that's how I got- Marcus: What position did you play? Chris: I played middle linebacker. Marcus: I did too. Chris: Oh, awesome. Marcus: Yeah, very cool. I didn't go past ... Honestly I think I stopped after my freshman year of high school, because I hurt my knee and I was like, "Man, this isn't for me," but I switched to lacrosse. Chris: It's tough man. Oh that's ... Yeah, I wish ... I've never even ... We never had that option. Marcus: I grew up in the Northeast, so it was more popular up there. Chris: More common. Marcus: Yeah. Chris: We had no lacrosse and no soccer where I grew up. It was kind of weird. It was a very small town man, very small. Marcus: Well, yeah it's when you have to make a choice, football wins. Chris: Yeah. Marcus: Now, 3rd Realm. Why don't you kind of describe to people what you're doing, because when we've had discussions in the past, what you guys are doing absolutely just kind of blows me away. I see what you're doing as the future of where things are going, so I'm super stoked about the fact that you exist here in Mobile, so go ahead and tell us a little bit about 3rd Realm. Chris: Sure, thanks number one. The kind of "elevator speech" or us in a capsule is that we're a software and development company, and that we specialize in virtual and augmented reality content. Most of the time when we tell people that, their first question is, "What the heck is virtual and augmented reality content and how do you develop it?" We've kind of ... You're right, it's a ... We've only seen the tip of the iceberg, but we're involved in an industry that we fill will revolutionize the way that we- Marcus: It will change everything. Chris: It'll change everything. It will be as common place as your iPhone or you iPad. Marcus: I'm actually having a little bit of jealousy here, because ... no, seriously. A number of years ago I went to [inaudible 00:07:07] and god, I wish I could remember the ... What was ... Robert Scoble who is a prevalent blogger out of Silicon Valley, so he was there to explain to the audience what he saw coming. I left that conference just absolutely blown away by what he was saying, that people like you are going to actually bring to the rest of the world. Not to take away from what you're saying, but I mean like seriously, it's just really exciting stuff. Chris: It really is. When you see the utilization or I guess I should say the multitude of applications that you can do with this technology, it really starts to ... it make your mind race and then you start to get overwhelmed at all the things that you can do. You think about advertising, marketing, education, just the number of ways this can impact our every day life is, it's really endless, honestly. Marcus: Then the lest new listener think that this is all stuff of video games, and geeks sitting in their basement nerding out. The example that Robert gave was imagine that you go into Home Depot, and you are trying to pick out cabinets for your home, and you're having a hard time visualizing what that looks like. Well, Home Depot will come out to your house, they will scan your house, they'll set up a camera, it'll take a scan and then you will go to Home Depot and you will put on a set of goggles and you'll be able to choose the different textures and finishes and stuff like that and actually experience first hand in a virtual world, what that looks like. That's virtual reality. Augmented reality would be like if you are an aircraft mechanic and you are needing to have something in your peripheral view that allows you to see what the socket size is that you need or whatever, that will be right there at your ready and your peripheral vision, and glasses, so you'll actually be able to see the real world in front of you, the engine, and you'll see the augmented world, whatever information it is that you need. These are the kinds of things that, I mean it is really we're on the [inaudible 00:09:26] of changing everything that we understand about how to interact with these spaces. Yes, video games are a large part of that right now, because it's nerds. You know what I mean? Chris: You're right, and a lot of times, a lot of people that we approach, that's their view of augmented, or that's their view of virtual reality specifically,- Marcus: Right. Chris: Is video games. The fact is that 80% of the people that do what we do, are focused on video games, this low hanging fruit, right? Marcus: Right. Chris: You build a game, you put it out for consumer use. Marcus: It's pretty quick. Chris: It's pretty quick. People buy it or they don't buy it. You know pretty quickly how marketable or how well your product is based on who buys it. How we set ourselves apart is that we focus on the business application, the business use of this technology. Everything you just said is absolutely true. Actually, one of ... I think he was our first client here in Mobile, Frank [Lot 00:10:21] with Heritage Homes. He has that app- Marcus: I know Frank. Chris: ... we built that app for him. Or you can go and pick out your siding, your roof- Marcus: You guys showed me that app. I didn't realize it was for Frank, but yeah, that's cool. Chris: Yeah, it was for Frank. He was our first ... You know, it takes people that have that vision to see kind of how to utilize it, but that was one of the first applications that we did, was exactly what you just said. Pick out your paint, pick out your color, pick out your siding, pick out your door, and then you can go in and pick out your other finishes. A lot of the other industries that we worked in are gaming, healthcare, medical device, education. Marcus: You're working at a national level now. I don't want you to say who, but you just went to New York and had some ... closed a deal. Chris: That's right. We've actually we were in San Francisco last week and closed a deal with a fortune 100 company. We've been to ... We've been a lot, we've been to a lot of places. We've been to New York twice already, we've been to Las Angeles, San Francisco, these are the places, kind of the hot beds where this stuff is really, really happening right now and there's a big need, a big demand for it, for especially for businesses that want to engage with their consumers on a new exciting level, but also just a ... It's just a more, it's like a target missile for marketing. This is a way that you can get in front of that consumer at the point of the sale, or before they make that decision, there's a new interactive way that you can advertise to your target market that makes this a very, very valuable commodity. Marcus: How did you guys get started? Because I mean, I didn't hear anything in your background about software development. Chris: Yeah. You won't find any that other than me playing video games and just kind of [crosstalk 00:12:23]. Marcus: I'm guessing you're the business guy behind the company name. Chris: I am. I do the business part, but I also come up with different ideas. One of the reasons I ... I left my job that I had, I was a healthcare executive for 12 years, and there was an opportunity that came to me and my family to either stay here in Mobile, try something new, or to move to Denver and keep doing what I've been doing. I didn't want to uproot my family, I have two small kids. We love Mobile, we love the community, we absolutely just fell in love with the place when we moved here, so I decided to take the leap and do something new, and this all kind of came to be around the same time that I met Nathaniel, and Charles and those guys through a mutual friend, actually at happy hour at Beer Garden. We sat down and we started talking about this. I've always kept up, I've always been a tech kind of- Marcus: Yeah, plugged in. Chris: Yeah, I've always been plugged in, not really a professional at it or anything, but I've always kept up with the technology part of the industry. I've always had my eye on virtual and augmented reality ever since Google Glass. The first kind of version of Google Glass, I saw that and when I saw that, I was like, that will change everything. That will change everything that we know about technology and how we interact with other people. Marcus: The world. Chris: The world, absolutely. I always kept up with it and read articles and when I saw the development of the Oculus and the basically new hardware that made it a lot easier for this to be more common place, I started to research and I found ... or when I met Nathaniel, we started discussing the business applications he was working on and he showed me a hologram that he had built on a computer, on his iPhone, I'm sorry. He pulled up his phone and he clicked the screen and a hologram stood on the table, and my first ... my mind just, it just took off. I started thinking about business cards. Business cards with holograms on them. You can stand on your business card and you can actually interact with the person you just met with. It's just a whole new level of business opportunity. We started to discuss that and we found that there was a lot of opportunities that we could pursue. We put a business plan together and we started to come up with just a handful of products that we could show for demo purposes and we just took off from then. We started that ... We opened our doors, the exchange on May 1st, 2017 and it has been drinking. Marcus: Has it really just been that long? Chris: It's just been that long, and it has been drinking from a fire hose, ever since the day I started. Marcus: Wow dude, that's really cool. Chris: Yeah. It was shocking- Marcus: It was [inaudible 00:15:16], I hope you take that the right way, but that's just really impressive. That's like insane. Chris: I do. Well, we tapped a vein that we're one of the only, besides Orlando, maybe a couple of companies in Nashville, and Atlanta, we're the only company in the Southeast that does what we do, so it's been, like I said, drinking out of a fire hose since the day we've been opened. Marcus: Well, and there's probably only a handful of companies, not handful, there's probably 100 or less in the country? Chris: Yeah, you're right. There's really, in terms of what we do, we do everything in house. We do our own video production, we do our own animation, we do our own graphics, we do all of those things. A lot of companies that do what we do, they just do the apps. They build the apps, then you have to give them content separately. We do all of that on our own. From my research, we are the only company that I can find in the country that does everything. We do everything from ... We can do commercials for you, we can shoot the commercial for you, then we can put it on a billboard for you in augmented reality. I mean, there aren't a lot of companies that do the full gamut, the full scope of what is included in the virtual and augmented reality development. Marcus: Yeah. It's really cool. Now, I've normally asked, do you remember the first time that you made some product or something where you thought there might be something to this, but the truth is, when you've only existed really for a little over a year, this is all still very new to- Chris: It is. It is very new. Pretty much we think all of our ideas are awesome ideas, but we found that some of the ideas are not great ideas for a myriad of reasons. Mostly its finances, I mean there are some industries that would love to take advantage of this, but the method by which they have resources to pay for this type of technology is just not available, but there are some game changers. There are some real game changers we feel like ... the one app we worked on with Nanny Connie, who is a celebrity Nanny, that lives here in Mobile, she's from Mobile, we work with them on augmenting, doing an augmented reality kind of reader guide, or reader supplement to the book that she just published through Simon & Schuster. She was on Good Morning America. We were fortunate to go up there with her to Good Morning America to promote this book. As we were building that, we were like, "Wow." The possibilities of incorporating augmented reality into books, whether it be this instructional book that the Nanny Connie book represents, just kind of teaches new parents how to be parents for the first four months of parenthood, but then you go to the fiction. When I read a book that's fiction and they reference a place I've never seen, and I automatically go to Google- Marcus: How cool would that be. Chris: ... so just have a logo there and just open your phone and bam, you get that reference. Or children's books. When you're reading, fill in the blank, children's book, what if that character was able to stand on that page and talk with you? That's a big idea that we've been working on and we hope to continue to develop. Marcus: That's cool. If you were talking to someone who wanted to get started in running their own business, what's the one bit of wisdom that you would impart to them? Chris: Be careful what you wish for. I mean, it's a big adjustment even though ... it sounds, when you say entrepreneur and you say you own your own business and all these other things, it sounds really awesome, it sounds really cool, but there's a lot of it that's not. It's not for the faint of heart. Marcus: Nope. Chris: One of the biggest adjustments I think that I've had to make is the value of a Saturday. I'm going to explain that to you in a second. In my old job, my old world, Saturdays were no ... everybody else was off, so even if you were ... there was nobody at the office to send you an email or to call you because everybody's off on Saturdays. There lies the value of a Saturday, like, you're off, you're disconnected from work and you really if you wanted to, you can just do whatever you want to do without worrying about it. When you're an entrepreneur, when you're owning your own business, there's no Saturday. There's no Monday, there's no Tuesday, everyday is work. Now, if you love what you're doing and you do it- Marcus: Every minute is work. Chris: every minute is work, but if you really are passionate and love what you do, it doesn't feel like work. Marcus: Right. Chris: It just feels like life. Marcus: I mean, there are some, yes, it doesn't feel like work, but it's also ... I can't shy away from this idea that at some level, disconnecting is something that is healthy and that entrepreneur's do need to do occasionally- Chris: Absolutely. Marcus: ... and you need to figure out ways to do that and it's really, really hard. Chris: It's a work, life, balance thing. Marcus: There is no such thing. Chris: Well, I think you can ... There is no such thing, but there are ways that you can reset your mind, like you were talking about. Marcus: Right, so going to the beach and spending the day- Chris: Absolutely. Marcus: Like at the water, for me, because that's how I kind of rejuvenate myself I guess, is to just go there and just sit with my feet in the sand. That is my way, but I'm mincing words here, but the truth is, you go to the grocery store and people recognize you if you're doing things correctly. Chris: That's right. Marcus: Or if you go to a chamber event, you're there and you're on, right? Chris: Yeah, that's right. Marcus: You're always in, at least in my situation, because we put so much out. It's you're always under the microscope in a sense. Chris: True. Marcus: I'm not complaining because that is necessary for a business. Chris: That's right. Marcus: It is the fuel that drives lead generation and sales and stuff like that, but at the same time, it's nice and like this past weekend I spent Saturday and Sunday working eight hour days at the new building, and this coming Saturday and Sunday, my wife had said, "We're going to the beach," because I think she realizes that I've gotten a lot more gray hair in the last month. [inaudible 00:21:34] and this is being recorded in the past, so hopefully by the time you listen to this, I will be back and be rested. Chris: Well, I think that what a lot of people ... It sounds really exciting to do that. Marcus: It's sexy. Chris: It is, it's sexy. Marcus: It's sexy, yeah. Chris: I think the degree to which you will last, you'll find out pretty soon, kind of the gauge I use is I feel more of my work days feels like Fridays than they do Mondays. Does that make sense? Marcus: True. No, absolutely. Chris: Like Mondays are typically, generally speaking- Marcus: I look forward to Mondays. Chris: I do too. I look forward to getting back in the office and getting [crosstalk 00:22:12]. Marcus: No slight to my family if you're listening to this. They don't listen to the podcast, but if they do listen to this in the future, it's no slight to my family, I love my family, I love my time at the house and stuff, but there's just something about ... I mean, this is like the oxygen for- Chris: It is. Marcus: ... an entrepreneur is to be able to work on your business and see it grow and take care of it and all that stuff. Chris: Yeah, that kind of becomes almost like when you're excited about doing what you're doing, that's invaluable, it really is. A trick that I do is whenever I'm ... When I go to the beach and I have those moments, turn off your device- Marcus: What? Chris: ... leave them home. Marcus: Sacrilege. I can't do it. Chris: I'm telling you. My wife and I, again, this is back in my old life when I was working 10 hours a day, we went to Costa Rica for a vacation and I did not know. I didn't even check, I didn't even research it. You don't have- Marcus: No cell service. Chris: You have no cell service, there is no Wi-Fi,- Marcus: No Wi-Fi. Chris: There's nothing. I didn't know this. Marcus: Did you have a panic attack? Chris: I almost did. The first day, I went to the office and like, "Do you have a computer?" And [inaudible 00:23:23], no, no computer. No, they did everything by like a cell- Marcus: Silly American. Chris: Yeah. I was like ... I started to, I really started to- Marcus: No, I feel you man, because yeah.- Chris: ... but, the flip side of that, when I left, we were there for eight days. When I left, I have never felt more rejuvenated ever in my life. That's something that has always stuck with me, because I was forced to put this down and turn it off. It made me feel ... Its like a feeling that I highly recommend to anyone. Now I try to ... I can't do it eight days in a row anymore, it's just impossible, but I try to find those opportunities and those times where I can absolutely unplug. Marcus: The interesting thing that I find is when you do get a chance to unplug, that's when the vision comes.  Chris: Absolutely. Yes. Marcus: I have three boys, so I don't get to do it much anymore, it's weird because I actually say, I don't get to do it, but mowing the grass. Mowing our yard is a good two hour affair or something like that, because I don't have a riding mower, I'm old school, I got the old self-propelled, but it's a push mower, but spending that time just wish some music on or something along those lines, maybe listen to a podcast, those are the times when I'm not ... I don't know, there's just something in that time, but also going to the beach, it's nice because you don't have those pressures, so it's that time where sometimes I get the clarity that I need on decisions that I'm trying to make or things like that. Chris: That's right. Marcus: It was kind of funny, because yesterday, I had a block of time set in my schedule and it literally just said meeting and I don't think anybody here ... I'm just going to have to start doing that more, because I need those times to just go and be at a coffee shop or some place and just figure some shit out. Chris: Absolutely. Marcus: I know this is a ... We try to keep her somewhat clean, but at some level, you just got to figure it out. You know, I mean, sometimes that's not easy in an office where there are a lot of ... It's a good thing, questions are being asked and decisions are being made, and conversations are being had and stuff like that, but sometimes you just need an extended period of time to get away and think. Chris: I think also the [manoosha 00:25:51], scheduling time away from ... I try to corner and isolate manoosha. Email, voicemail, those types of things that I believe, I'm a strong believer, this goes back to Franklin Covey kind of principles, like manoosha. Marcus: I'm old school like that too. Chris: Yeah. That manoosha will absolutely kill a business. It'll absolutely, it'll drive a person insane. If you're always answering your emails and doing those things, you don't really have time to step back, look at the big picture and start to realize the opportunities or the ideas that might be coming at you, because you're focused on something that at the end of the day, it's important, yeah, and everything is in its- Marcus: Also, in the industry that we work in, there are very complex problems that are being worked on, and even for the staff, we're trying to look for ways that we can bring in that time where they can unpack those problems and really dive into them, because when there's a lot of little things coming your way, sometimes it's difficult to get to the point where, okay, now I know all the things that I'm dealing with and I can start to solve those problems, so we're being diligent about that. If you look to the business world, what's one person that motivates you? Chris: One person that motivates me. Jimmy Buffett. I'm a [inaudible 00:27:24] and I as you know, people can't see on the podcast, but I wear shorts and flip-flops and usually T-shirts pretty much every day. Marcus: Yeah, you dressed up a little bit today for us. Chris: I did. I put on an actual button- Marcus: It's not a white collared shirt, but it's almost. Chris: No collars. Marcus: Yeah, exactly. Chris: To follow a passion relentlessly, and I don't know if you ever read his book, his plural books, but to follow his passion relentlessly for the amount of time he did and to have it pay off, and then to take that success that he had and not sit on it, but to continue to build his brand, continue to build casinos, hotels, now- Marcus: Restaurants. Chris: ... retirement centers. Marcus: A brilliant idea. Chris: Yeah. He has Margaritaville Assisted Living facilities out. Marcus: Wow. Chris: Restaurants, he writes books. Everything that he's been passionate about, he's just followed throughout his life. From right here in Mobile, Alabama as well. Marcus: He could have very easily have just rested on his laurels and lived the good life on the beach with the royalties- Chris: Royalties from Margaritaville. Marcus: Exactly. Chris: Yeah, because he makes ton of money from that, but I just think that his is not ... He wasn't a Steve Jobs, he wasn't Bill Gates that had this crazy technical knowledge and this genius mind, he's just passionate, that's it. He took a passion, he followed it, and he worked on that and then he took that passion and transformed that into a multi-million dollar business. Marcus: I won't unpack this right now, but it's interesting that you talk about Margaritaville and how he's using that as his brand to go into some other things. There's probably a marketing man in this video in there somewhere, so to be continued. Are there any books, podcasts, people or organizations that have been really helpful in moving you forward in the last year? Chris: I would say, yeah, there definitely been some people here in my building that have really helped us. Todd Greer has been- Marcus: Don't say that. Chris: Oh, don't say that? Marcus: No. Chris: I'm sorry. Marcus: Of all people, Todd's [inaudible 00:29:38]. Chris: Do we need to hit pause on that? No, I mean, from the day we moved into the exchange, he was extraordinarily helpful. Always available, you know? It was one of those guys that no matter ... He's always got time for you, he's always got time to talk to you, he's always got time to help you out, especially for a new business like ours when we were trying to do things that no one had heard of, and how do we explain that to people. Hayley Van Antwerp and Corey James at the Innovation Portal, very helpful to us. Scott Tendall, a good friend of mine, he always opened to have lunch and tell me, being a very straight shooter, this is a stupid idea or this is a good idea, this will work, this will not work, let me tell you why. Marcus: We all need those people in our lives. Chris: You got to have those people, you got to have those people. I think that the Mobile community has been incredible with helping us try to find our place and giving us advice when we need it. They give you tons of advice too. Some of it you can say, "Wow, we can't do that, we don't have time to do ... we don't have time to do all the advice, but you through all the advice, because of people that are genuinely trying to help you, you find some gems, and you stick with those and they've helped us tremendously. Marcus: That's really cool. All stellar people and it's very cool that you mentioned the people instead of ... Not to take anything away from books, podcast, or organizations, but the more I am in business, the more I understand that it's really the people that you lean on that make that difference. Chris: Absolutely. We can get into the Franklin Covey stuff and the Stephen Covey books and all those things, and all those things are tremendously helpful, but I agree with you. I think the most important thing are the relationship with people that we met. Marcus: What's the most important thing that you've learned about running a business? Chris: I think that it's important to understand that the highs are never that high, and the lows are never that low. I think that's an old sales adage or something but, I heard that a long time ago and it's kind of stuck with me, but it's never meant as much to me as it does now. You celebrate the successes when you have those successes, and you celebrate them as wins, knowing that tomorrow, you may take a loss. If you can kind of stay in the middle, if you can always just stay right in the middle of being too high and too low, you'll do fine. Again, it takes a ... This is not for everyone. Running your own business is not for everyone. I find it's the people that can stay calm in a crisis and also to stay calm in the success and not say, "Oh, we're going to be billionaires," and the next day think, "Oh we're going to be poor,"- Marcus: We're going out of business tomorrow. Chris: That's right. Yeah, if you can just kind of live in the middle. Marcus: Such is the life of an entrepreneur. Chris: Exactly, because it is. It is a rollercoaster ride as you well know. It is. Every day brings new challenges, every day brings new successes, and just enjoy the ride, because you don't how long you're going to be able to do it, and just living right there in the middle. Marcus: That's cool. Tell people where they can find out more information about what you all are doing and stuff like that. Chris: Well, we are at the exchange, at 202 Government Street, that's where our offices are. We have our most active page is our  page, we post a lot of things on Facebook and we have a website that's still under construction, it's always been under construction, because we keep changing. Marcus: [crosstalk 00:33:22] issues. Chris: Yeah, well we just ... Our business keeps changing, that's the thing. Marcus: Right. Chris: We started out as being one thing, and now we have morphed over the last year, in a handful of months into coming out with more specific things, so every time we think we're ready to finalize the website, we need to add something or we need to take something away. Marcus: Pivot. Chris: Yeah, that's right, pivot. Come see us at the exchange, we always have some cool toys, we're always the people with the goggles on, so you may have to knock on the door, because we may not see you, but our doors are always open and we love to show people new things and show them new toys. Marcus: You guys have open houses as well sometimes too, which is always really fun, so. Chris: Yeah, we do, we set up V-arcades at the exchange where you actually do get to play games, and we're always more than happy to show people the business applications that we've put together for other companies, but yeah, we do a lot of those things, where a lot of fun stuff at the exchange. It's a cool place to be and yeah, come see us. Marcus: Well, I want to thank you again for coming on the podcast to wrap up any final thoughts or comments you'd like to share? Chris: No, thanks for having us. We're really excited about being here in Mobile and being a part of the business community. We would love to have, for anybody listening, we would love to have more business in Mobile. It's really nice to wrack up frequent flyer miles, however, it would be nice to do some business in town and walk down the street and go to lunch at Dauphin Street or somewhere like that, so yeah, it's been a whirlwind and for anybody that's looking to do a ... to start their own business or be an entrepreneur, jump both feet in, but realize you got to swim when you jump in. Marcus: There is no other way. Again, I'm just excited that you all exist here in Mobile, because- Chris: Thanks, thank you very much. Marcus: ... normally you only here about this stuff in far off places, so I know you guys are going to be successful, so I don't need to say that, but I appreciate your willingness to sit with me and share your journey as a business owner and entrepreneur, it's been great talking with you Chris. Chris: Thanks a lot. Marcus: Yeah.

 On this week's podcast, Marcus sits down and talks with Liz Garza of FOY Superfoods. Liz moved to Alabama from Texas to pursue grad school at Springhill and marry her now husband and co-owner of FOY, John. In pursuit of starting a new life here, they have now started many new businesses that all pertain to their passion for health. Tune in and listen or read on  and do yourself a favor by grabbing lunch at FOY! (You might even see us there…)  Liz: Hey guys. I'm Liz Garza, co-owner of Foy Super foods down here in Mobile on Dauphin Street in Bienville Square. Marcus: Awesome. Well, welcome to the podcast, Liz. Liz: Thanks for having me. Marcus: Yeah. We're big fans of yours. We ate there today. Liz: Right. Marcus: That is not just because you were coming on the podcast. That's a couple of time a week. Liz: Oh, for sure. Yeah, I see you guys all the time. Marcus: Yeah. I think I'm addicted to your acai bowls and the jerk, which is a very tasty bowl with chicken and, you can add chicken, with spinach, and rice, and sweet potatoes, and all kinds of there yummy stuff. Liz: Yeah, for sure. Marcus: I don't fall asleep after eating at Foy. Liz: Right. Marcus: I also don't feel like I'm destroying my body when I eat at Foy. Liz: Absolutely. Marcus: Yeah, but we're excited about having you on. So, to get started, why don't you give us some of the back story of who you are and where you're from. Where'd you go to school? High school and college, if it's appropriate. Liz: Yeah. Marcus: And tell us about John 'cause we know that he's a big part of this. So, give us some back story. Liz: Absolutely. I'm from a city in South Texas, right on the boarder to Mexico, it's called Laredo. Marcus: Cool. Liz: And it reminds me a lot of Mobile. It has a lot of that old town charm. Everybody knows everybody, that kind of thing. I'm real comfortable. I feel like I fit in well in Mobile, just growing up in Laredo. I am a first generation US citizen. Both my parents are from Monterey, Mexico. Marcus: Very cool. Liz: Yeah. I went to high school of course, at a school in Laredo and went to college at Texas A&M for my undergrad and then- Marcus: That's it? You just went to Texas A&M. Liz: Right. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. Marcus: Underachiever. Liz: That little school, yeah. But yeah, I have a business degree with an emphasis in human resource management over from Texas A&M then went on to ... When I moved here, got my masters over at Spring Hill College in liberal arts. Of course, it's a liberal arts school, but I concentrated my degree in leadership and ethics. At the time in grad school, I was expecting our only son at the time. John and I were trying to navigate our way through, "Our we gonna go to Corporate America? Are you gonna get a job?" It was kind of slim pickings, really, moving to Mobile and coming out of grad school thinking, "Well, what am I gonna do?" Marcus: Yeah. Liz: We decided, let's start our own business. We saw a need for it and it just fit into our life in more than one way. John and I both have a background family history of obesity related disease, heart disease, cancer, diabetes, all of the above. John's actually a diabetic and so, at home we were wondering, or I was wondering, "How the heck am I gonna cook for this man and not make him sick?" Trying to figure out all that world out. Marcus: And not make him feel like he's wanting for more. Liz: Right. Exactly. Like he's lacking or like you said, wanting. That's when we started Balance, which was six years ago. It was a paleo meal delivery service and we did that for almost four years before we started Foy. Marcus: Does that still exist 'cause that's the first time I'm hearing of that? Liz: Yeah. So, now when you come into Foy, you're gonna recognize all my coolers are wrapped and they say Balance and stuff on them. The business was based on basically, prepping healthy meals, packaging them down. And what we did, we established partnerships with a ton of different crossfit gyms, yoga studios, that kind of thing. We furnished the coolers and we would go make these massive drops of food. We were eCommerce. People would go to our website, they would see our menu, we change every week, and they would order meals for the week. Instead of charging them a delivery fee, we would say, "We have a partnership at a gym in Spanish Fort, or in Fairhope, our in West Mobile. If you work, live, or exercise at this place or nearby, it's convenient for you at no charge to pick up your meals that you've already ordered online and prepaid for". We did this for a few years and it kinda just grew into this big monster that sucked our life away. It was constant. We had no weekend, we had a little one, and we kinda tried to balance home life and work life and it became a little too much. We decided, "Well, why don't we take all the things we know sell really well and open up an actual restaurant." Like a brick and mortar, right? Not having a restaurant background, not even a high school job that I worked at, like a McDonald's or anything. Just passionate about health food and seeing that there was a need for it in the city and just seize the opportunity and it just worked. We realized, "Okay, now we're running Foy." That allows me to have a life. It's a lot easier. I met super cool people. We're in a little niche area here downtown. Marcus: Yeah. Liz: That's just how things came about. We're already going into our second year, so far so good. Marcus: So, you closed Balance? Liz: We closed Balance. Marcus: Okay. Liz: And we have plans to- Marcus: That's really interesting 'cause we know, he was on the podcast so, full disclosure, Lorenzo was on the podcast a while back and he's got a really interesting idea, but he tries to deliver to everybody. Liz: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Marcus: That's gotta be so hard. Liz: It is. Marcus: Your idea of dropping to central locations and then having, especially when it comes to crossfit gyms are real big into paleo eating, which is what your menu typically follows. Liz: Exactly. That's exactly what it was. Marcus: Yeah. Liz: I met Lorenzo when he first got started. He actually reached out to us and just said, "Hey, can we meet? I need some pointers." There were a lot of things that we were able to share with him about lessons that we learned the hard way, and things to avoid, and all that good stuff. Glad to see that he's still doing it. For me, it's like hey, the more the merrier. I'm all about, "Let me help you out." If I have a great idea ... I just talked to a guy with a local up an coming gluten free bakery called Gunkel's. I just met with him right before I came here. Same thing, I was sharing with him that idea 'cause he works out of a commissary kitchen. I'm like, "Well." He's trying to retail his stuff out of different stores and he's like, "I just signed on with The Cheese Cottage and I would love for you to carry my stuff." I said, "What would really seal the deal is if you had a mini Gunkel's refrigerator, wrapped in your logo, to say "Hey, will you house this cooler for me. I'll make these deliveries and you sell my product out of my cooler, that way I have control of the inventory, of how clean the cooler is, of how things are packaged." You know what I mean? Marcus: It puts that on him, that responsibility. Liz: Right. Then you get more brand recognition with, "Hey, you have this super cool cooler wrapped in your logo. They spent all this money on an awesome logo design." So, I'm like, "Put it out there for people to see." If I have an idea, I'm not to shy away from letting anybody hear it. I know you asked about John. I started going off on a tangent, but John's originally from Mobile. Marcus: Okay. Liz: He went to McGill Toolen for high school. He went to Morehouse in Atlanta, which is an all boys school. They call it the Harvard for black men. It's one of those things that he's got generations of family that they've all gone through Morehouse College. Marcus: We did an interview with Carl Cunningham just recently. Liz: Oh, yeah. Marcus: One of his Kapa league guys, Paul Lockett, hopefully is gonna be doing an internship here this summer. Liz: Yes. Marcus: He's going to Morehouse. Liz: He's on a scholarship, right? Marcus: Yes, full ride. Liz: I've heard about that. Marcus: I tried to hire him and he said, "No, I'm going to college." And I was like, "No, you don't wanna do that." He's like, "I've got a full ride." And I was like, "Yeah, I can't argue with that." Liz: Yeah. I didn't know about it until I met John, but they put out a lot of really quality men. Marcus: [crosstalk 00:08:18]. Yeah. Liz: Yeah, they push leadership and they push innovation. Marcus: You're not biased at all. Liz: Right. No, I'm not. I'm not biased at all. But no, even my son, I have a Morehouse man in training. What do you know? Marcus: There you go. Yeah. Liz: He finished from Morehouse and we actually met in Atlanta. He went on to Nova Southeastern out in Fort Lauderdale for his masters. He's got a background in public health, which is totally, you would think the opposite of the realm we're in now, but it kind of opened our eyes to this possibility where ... On the flip side, we have Foy. We also have a mental health agency. We house individuals with intellectual disabilities. Yeah. Marcus: What? Where? Liz: Here in Mobile. Marcus: Wow. Liz: We did that before we did any of this other stuff. Marcus: What's the name of that? Liz: It's called Lifetime Healthcare. Marcus: Very cool. Liz: And they are residential facilities. So, it just looks like a house in a neighborhood. Marcus: Yeah. Liz: Through the department of mental health. We get managed by Altapointe and we're contracted through the state, medicaid funded. We house these individuals and basically rehab them in several ways, but diet is one of them. Marcus: One of them. Liz: Because people don't realize how big of a role food plays into behaviors, and disease, and all these things, right? So, we were working with dieticians getting, they call them PCP, person centered plans, to say, "Okay, well, we're gonna give this person the best quality of life doing all of these things." So, we were developing diets to say, "Okay well, this person has cerebral palsy or this person has epilepsy and so these are the foods that they should avoid." We were working trying to figure that out and we said, that's how balance came about. We were like, "Nobody here in this city that we can say "Hey, I suffer from Celiac." Or "I've got arthritis." There's special diets that you can adhere to. So we were like, "Why don't we do that?" It really was one of those conversations like, light bulb went off. We were like, "Okay, should we do this?" It happened and it grew. The crossfit community embraced us and that's how we went into the whole paleo thing. But that's how this all came about. Marcus: All right. Folks, I had no idea the onion that I was peeling back when we invited you on the podcast. Liz: Yeah. I know. Marcus: We know you from Foy and we obviously, we wanted to have you, but I had no idea. That is so cool. Liz: Right. Marcus: Yeah. Just to tag on, my parents are from Brazil and so I get that, the Latin and black communities both, that there's a ... Even a white community. There's not a whole lot of information given to people depending on your socioeconomic status on eating. It's amazing to me the ... I have friend who's a physician. He's a general practitioner in Washington D.C. Shout out to Terek is you're listening. I don't think you are. Anyways, he's more of a holistic doctor so he believes in eating as one of the ways he treats people. Liz: For sure. Marcus: Out of the blue one day, a couple years ago, he sent me Rob Wolf's book on paleo eating and he was like, "You have to read this." And the reason why is because he knew that my father, I'm 44 I think. Jerrod, come on. You're supposed to keep track of these things. I'm 44. My father had a heart attack when I was 16 years old, which would've been younger than I am today. Liz: Wow. Marcus: For years, I have gone in to get my blood work checked and I've read up on various articles of what's important and hey, news flash, if you're listening to this and you're still having your cholesterol checked, you're checking the wrong thing. Go in and get your C reactive protein checked. The reason why, I know you're kind of looking at me ... C reactor protein is actually an indicator for inflammation in the body and getting that checked will be a better indicator of whether you are at a high risk for heart disease because inflammation is actually the reason for plaque build up in your arteries and stuff like that. Not cholesterol. Liz: Wow. Marcus: That's why the paleo diet and all of these other diets that eliminate some of the things that ... They're all geared towards reducing the items that inflame our bodies. The reason they why they've been so successful is because they remove the gluten and all the other things that- Liz: Processed stuff. Marcus: Yeah, the processed stuff that inflame our bodies and so the doctors should be, those that are progressive in their thinking, should be prescribing these diets more because it will actually eliminate your problems with heart disease, and with diabetes, and with all these other things. Liz: Absolutely. Yeah. Marcus: Wow, I had no idea that we were gonna be having this conversation. Liz: I know, yeah. Marcus: This is so cool. I don't even wanna go ... I'm just so fascinated by this. Did you come here to go to get your masters at Spring Hill? Or did you move back for other reasons? Liz: Well, I came here basically, to be with John. We were in a long distance relationship. Marcus: So, he was here already. Liz: He was here, yeah. I was living in Dallas. Marcus: 'Cause you said you met in Atlanta and I wasn't sure. Liz: Yeah, we had mutual friends and met that way. Both of us had, well, he had already finished his masters and he was here starting the assisted living facility. So, he started that on his own and I kind of help him here and there, but that's solely John. That's his thing. He built that up and that really allowed us to start this business debt free. Marcus: Gives you some freedom. Liz: We didn't have to borrow a dime. We did it on our own and to this day, what I have I own and if I can't afford it, I don't get it. That's our mentality with it all, but thankfully he's done well. He was more established and I was kind of in limbo with my undergrad. I was working HR in Dallas. Living the life, of course. Living downtown with all my friends and my life. I just got to the point where four years into dating, it was one of those, excuse my french, "shit or get off the pot", you know, "What are we gonna do here?" And he thought, "Why don't you just come here and go to grad school?" He was more established, of course. We were heading that direction in our relationship and so I moved to Mobile. Of all places. All my friends were like, "Oh, my God. You're moving to Mobile." Marcus: "You're moving where?" Liz: Right. But it's been the best decision. Marcus: Who's laughing now? Liz: I know. Right. Exactly. Marcus: Those suckers are all working a nine to five and you've got multiple businesses that are up and operating. Liz: Yeah, I've got my brother in town and he's recently retired and he's like, "Man, you've got a really sweet gig." I sleep in a little. I'm like, it will be 8:30 and I'm like, "Okay, let me start getting moving." And I'm here for our little lunch hour and then we can go on to the next thing. It's allowed us a lot of freedom. At the beginning, like I said, it was a grind with Balance and everything. It still is. The restaurant industry is like a monster and it will eat you alive. There's so many elements that people quite realize that are involved in running a restaurant. Not coming from a background at all of food, it was a huge learning curve. We went through all sorts of growing pains, but not the dust has settled, we've developed our processes. We have things that we bring in, like when we hire people, customer service training things, we have checklists for all types of things. The ultimate goal is to franchise and so we're setting ourselves up, basically treating this like a project. In grad school, you've got this big project that you work on when you're in business school. So, we said, "Well, let's just dissect this. Treat it just like a school project and have everything that we could possibly need to franchise this place and Lord willing, it will happen." Marcus: Yeah. Forgive me, but I think every business owner should be looking at their business in that respect. Every business is a project. I think one of the things, I keep alluding to this 'cause I'm in the midst of it people, so forgive me, but I'm in the emerging leaders program here at the chamber and the small business administration. They call that a streetwise MBA, but the biggest thing about that program is they force you to actually work on the business and not just do the business, right? So, it'd be really easy for somebody in your situation just to say, "Well, I'm just gonna work on ordering the food and I'm just gonna work on serving the customers." But you're looking at it from a much bigger picture just like we're having to look at Blue Fish in a much different picture of, "Hey, where do we wanna be in there or five years? What does that look like? What's it gonna take to get there? How do we guide ourselves into a product spaced service business?" Liz: Absolutely. Marcus: I imagine that you're having to look at, "Well, how do we set up all the processes so that we can hand this off to somebody. And that when somebody walks in it's still the same experience?" And all that stuff. Liz: Absolutely. Yeah. The thing with it and in treating it like a school project is that you never stop learning. The industries are constantly changing. You've gotta adapt or die. Really. That's just what it is. Now, with people wanting fast food, they want it fresh, they want it cheap, they want it now. You have to get with the times in this industry. Really, my biggest takeaway from this whole experience is it's like a child. You have to nurture it, it takes a village and you have to know every single rule that you have. If you're hiring somebody, you had to have already done that job. You see what I'm saying? From the beginning up. I will mop floors, I will wash dishes, I will package food, I will chop chicken, everything. Marcus: You have to know what's involved. Liz: Right. To be able to tell somebody, "Well, this is how you're supposed to do it." And to develop the process say, "This is the most efficient way to do it." Because you've trial and errored the whole thing. Marcus: It's funny because here at Blue Fish, with the exception of video editing, there's not a job that I haven't done here. Liz: Yeah. Marcus: When I hire people, I can speak their language even though they're skilled in their roles. I can speak their language because I've already done all of those things. Liz: Yeah. Marcus: But I also, I go back to one of the very first jobs that I had was, I worked in a bagel bakery in Washington D.C. I will never forget that the guy, he was the main manager of the bagel shop. And he literally, I was mopping the floor one day and he was like, "No, that's not how you do it." And he showed me the right way to mop a floor. When you're in a bakery or in a restaurant situation where a lot of stuff gets thrown on the floor, the right action can really make the difference between just pushing stuff around on the floor and actually making things cleaner. It just blew me away that, here's this man who ... I think he had military background, too. So, there was probably some of that coming through. But it was like, I never forgot that, that he knew the right way to mop a floor. Anyway, I recognize what you're saying and when you're in that position you have to know all those different skill sets so that you can train somebody else up in that situation. Liz: Absolutely. Marcus: All right. Question number two. Twenty minutes in. What was your first job? Liz: Okay, I was a lifeguard. I'm a strong swimmer. It's my favorite thing to do. I started life guarding and teaching little kids how to swim when I was a junior in high school. It was an awesome summer job. It paid well. I had a tan. Marcus: Yeah. Liz: I did it with all my friends. Marcus: You're not flipping burgers, for sure. Liz: Right, yeah. It was cool. We worked at the city pool. I was the slide girl so I was up at the top like, "Go. Go."  Marcus: Yeah. Liz: That was cool. I did that for a few years. I actually did that even when I left off for college. I'd come home during the summer and do it just to make a couple extra bucks. Marcus: Where there any lessons from that first job that you still remember, to this day? I told you about my mop experience. Liz: Oh, gosh. Marcus: Was there anything similar to that early on in your career? Liz: I think that just ... That's a hard question. Marcus: That's okay if there wasn't. Sometimes there's not. I can see how lifeguard to where you are today, that might be a reach 'cause you're taking care of people and stuff like that. I assume that there's some level of that. Liz: Yeah. If anything, it just instilled in me that you've gotta work hard for anything that you want. I didn't necessarily get a job when I was a junior in high school. My parents weren't pressuring me to get a job, but I like the fact of having my own money. If I wanted to go and buy a shirt or whatever, I didn't have to ask for the money to go get it. Marcus: Preston, are you listening to this? Liz: Right? It's almost like a sense of empowerment. Like, "Hey, I've done this on my own." You just feel like you're- Marcus: There's a freedom there. Liz: Right, there's a freedom there with that. No matter how tired I was from staying up until two o'clock in the morning the night before and whatnot, I knew that hey, tomorrow morning rain or shine, I'm getting up and I gotta be there. Marcus: I gotta get up. Liz: Right. I think that's really important just all around with employees. That's something that you really can't train. You can't instill that in somebody. Either they have it or they don't. I deal with employees and in the restaurant industry there's a lot of turn around and that's one of the main things of just finding somebody who is reliable and somebody who takes pride in what they do. To say, "I don't care if all I'm doing is mopping the floor, I'm gonna mop it the right way and I'm gonna be here on time to do it." There has to be some sort of pride about what you're doing and just reliability, too. Marcus: There are lessons. So, I guess the point there, when I ask that question is, if somebody is listening to this and they're in that position, because not everybody's a business owner that listens to this podcast. But if they're in that position that knowing that there are lessons to be learned in something even as menial as scrubbing a toilet or mopping a floor, that it is like you're saying, the pride that you put into that because that will carry you way into the future. It's that effort that you put forward. You may not get it right, but that fact that you're trying, it will get noticed and will carry you a long way. Liz: Yeah, absolutely. Marcus: Now, if you were talking to someone that wanted to get started in running their own business, is there one bit of wisdom that you would impart in them? Liz: Don't be afraid. When somebody says no and one door closes, because that definitely happens, keep pushing. Don't get discouraged. There's gonna be times where you're probably just going to be sitting on your living room floor crying like, "What am I getting myself into? What's really going on?" But it's just one of those ... There is a light at the end of the tunnel. It does take time. YOu're gonna have to jump through hoops and do all sorts of things coming from trying to get the money, the capital together to start your business, trying to get somebody to come in and help you, that you can trust and work well with. There's so many different things, but my main, I guess, piece of advise would be, learn your business inside and out. Be able to do every single job that way, when Tommy doesn't show up in the morning, you can jump in and not skip a beat. Marcus: Right. Liz: 'Cause that's what's gonna happen. People will let you down. But on the flip side, for every person that lets you down, you're gonna have five or six more people to come in to bring you up, and to be there for you, and to support you. But it definitely, it's good to network, get out there, talk to people, find people that you have synergy with and join forces. For example, like what we did with the crossfit gyms like, "Okay well, we'll furnish the cooler. Now, you have an extra service to offer your customers that are gonna have all these healthy meals after they work they can just take home and eat. Marcus: Yup. Liz: Then, "Hey, as an owner or coach or trainer, we'll give you everything at cost that way you can be able to help sell the food, too. You know what I tastes like. You know what it's doing for your performance, that kind of thing. Marcus: It's also helping support their mission of helping make people healthier. Liz: Right. Marcus: I would imagine ... You're out of that business now, but even doing something like offering your services of coming in and actually talking about nutrition and paleo, the diet itself and the ins and out and stuff like that would've been extremely helpful to. Liz: Yeah. Marcus: Most gym owners or box owners are gonna know that anyway 'cause paleo's really big in the crossfit world. Liz: For sure. Yeah, and I do stuff like that now. I do, with the board of health and Franklin clinic, they bring me in about once a month. There's a support group for women with heart disease and we have lunch and learns. Every time I come in, it's a different group and they always ask, "Are you a dietician or nutritionist?" And I'm like, "No, not at all." Marcus: No, because they don't really ... I don't know. I don't know if I wanna say that. I'm not saying take it out of the podcast, but I'm just saying ... I've talked to a number of physicians that usually have one credit hour that they take on nutrition and most of it is geared towards the pyramid, the food pyramid. Liz: Yeah. Right. Marcus: And we now know that that was created out of an industry that wanted to push more grains than anything and that those grains are not necessarily the best thing for us. Liz: Right. Marcus: If you look back at ... Historically speaking, if you look back at even 50 years ago when people would wake up in the morning and they would have bacon and eggs. They would have a cup of coffee and that's how they started their morning. Those people tended to be smaller as far as body mass goes and we didn't have nearly the incidents of diabetes and all the other things that are prevalent in our society nowadays. It was because we weren't shoving a piece of bread into our mouth with every meal, or worse. Donuts, I love them. Don't get me wrong I'll eat a dozen or two. When I eat them, I know that they're not good for me and that I'm basically doing damage. Liz: Right. Just think about the amount of processed food that we have just available to us at convenient stores or at grocery stores. To me, if it's not rotting, what's going on? What kind of magic powder do you have on there to have it just last forever? Marcus: Looking at you Little Debbie. Liz: I'm all about, "Hey, in moderation." Yeah, every once in a while yeah, we order pizza. We go get burgers and fries or drink beers or whatever. Enjoy life. Don't restrict yourself to that point, but at the same time be aware of what you're putting in your body and what it's doing to your body. Be an example, too, to people who have children that kind of thing. Their gonna mimic what they see. Make it a point to instill that at a young age now, where, hey, you go to the school cafeterias and you see they're feeding them junk. Marcus: Right. Liz: At least they can get a quality meal for breakfast and for dinner 'cause at school it's like, it's just a lost meal right there. There's a ton of stuff that's just processed things that are at the grocery store that we really should just do away with altogether. There's other countries that I've heard just rumors, "Oh, in Europe, Cheetos are banned. They don't even sell them." Marcus: You can't even get them. Liz: Yeah, you can't even get them. I'm like, "Why are they on every shelf here?" What's going on? Marcus: There are other options, too. Now, if you were to look to the business world, is there a person or organization, or something that motivates you that you've kinda looked to? Liz: Yeah, gosh. That's kind of a loaded question, too. At the local level, there are a lot of entrepreneurs who I admire and I just follow and that kind of thing just because I feel like there's a movement going on right now. Marcus: In Mobile, definitely. Heck yeah. Liz: In Mobile, especially here downtown. There's so many doers. There's so many movers and shakers and everybody has an idea and everybody's like, it just lights a fire up under you to see other people doing it and making it. At the local level, there's tons of them. I follow Scott Tindle a lot. I love what he does. He's been able to reinvent himself over and over. Matt Lamon is another one that I admire, what he's doing. There's so many, gosh. Marcus: Both of them have been on the podcast, too. Liz: Oh, really? Marcus: Yeah. Liz: Yeah. Super cool down to earth people. They're always willing to help. I remember when we first started Balance, Scott came in was just like, "I wanna introduce myself to you and I wanna learn about what you're doing." Marcus: Yeah. Liz: And it just meant so much that it's like, "Hey, this person who's already established is coming, taking the time to figure out ... Like, "Hey, this is a new cool idea and I wanna know more about it." Marcus: Yeah. Liz: With no agenda or anything. Marcus: Matt is really big in crossfit so, I can imagine he really took to what you all are doing. Liz: Exactly. For sure, yeah. He was a customer of ours. It's funny to just see how over the years we've all just found our own way, but still have synergy with each other. Marcus: Absolutely. Liz: It's just cool. We're all in the same age group. It's an exciting time. Marcus: Anybody else? You looked like you were getting ready to say somebody else's name. Liz: You look to people of like, of course, somebody like Oprah or somebody who built this giant empire- Marcus: Nah, it doesn't have to be. I ask the question open ended. I'm appreciative actually, that we've done ... You're our third episode today. Full disclosure, we batch record these. We record four or five in a day. The previous two also mentioned ... One of them, it was his father, but his father's a business owner, a barber. The other one was mentioning some local entrepreneurs that were already doing business in the industry that she wanted to do business in. I think that's cool that people are looking ... 'Cause I'll be honest. Growing up, I was never big into idolizing celebrities or anything like that. So, I have a really hard time with that now, too. Although, I do have a deep appreciation for freaks like Elon Musk and these guys that are just literally changing the world that we live in. At the same time, I would much rather work with other business owners in the area, geographically, or within my own industry, and look to them and see what they're doing. There's a conference for agents and owners that I went to in February and there was a guy there that he had no intentions of building a large agency and as he sat on the stage he was saying, "I've got over a hundred employees." Liz: Wow. Marcus: He probably has one of the largest agencies, and it's a digital agency. So, they're very much like what we are. I was just blown away. Three years ago, I think he said, it was eight people. Liz: Wow. Marcus: So, he went from, it was a small number, it was like eight or twelve people to over a hundred people in just a couple of years. That's the guy that I'm just like, "Holy Cow. How in the world?" Liz: Yes. Marcus: How do you scale at that level and still keep the wheels on the bus? Liz: Yeah, I've got a friend that is, he's a dentist in Dallas. Came out of dental school, worked for one year for a dentist, and came up with a concept ... In a city like Dallas, it lends itself to opulence, valet, and red carpet, and all this kind of thing. Well, he started at a company called Mint where they marketed themselves in such a way that now, he has twenty Mints and they're all over the place, all over Texas. We all started at the same time. And John and I, when we visit, we go to their house and we're like, "oh, my God." They have this super cool, they're driving a Bentley, and we're like- Marcus: 8,000 square foot house in Plano, Texas Liz: Right. Yeah. How on earth did you manage to build this that fast? What's the secret sauce? What's up? What are you doing? I guess some people just have it in them and if we can just have small takeaways from what they do- Marcus: You know what's cool? People are gonna listen to this and they're gonna say the same thing about you. Liz: Hopefully. Marcus: Yeah. All right. Are there any books, podcasts, people, or organizations that have been helpful in moving you forward? Liz: Off the top of my head, for sure, Leadership Mobile was very instrumental in moving us forward and Foy as a brand, downtown. I was a class of 2017 and it was such a diverse mix of people, but a lot of us were in downtown. This was during the process of, "Hey, Foy is gonna be opening." We were doing the construction and stuff. While I was in the class, that's when we opened Foy, and they were just so supportive. I had Todd Greer, who is another person who I just adore and follow. Marcus: He's been on the podcast. Liz: I'm sure. Marcus: Yeah. He's a good friend. Susan Shawl was in that as well. Liz: Susan, well, she wasn't in my class, but I love Susan. Love her, love her. We keep joking about we have a Susan button at Foy 'cause she comes in pretty much everyday and gets the same exact thing. Marcus: She's funny. Liz: Yeah. I love Susan. But there were a bunch of people in our class that were just super supportive. When we first opened, I remember, they all came to the grand opening. They were all sharing it on social media and most of them were people in the city like, "Hey, if you're having an issue with this permit. If you need this, call me." That's big. There's a lot of red tape involved in opening a business, especially a business in downtown Mobile. So, to have that network of people is priceless. Marcus: Yeah. Liz: That was a big organization that, for me, it helped put us on the map, for real. Marcus: Correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause a lot of people may not know what leadership Mobile is. Leadership Mobile is a program where you are meeting on a regular basis and you're also being introduced to various leaders in our community whether it be visit Mobile with all the CVV stuff, so the tours and stuff that's going on. Or people at the city, or just other leadership positions in the city. Liz: Yeah, University, at the hospital. You are meeting where the buck stops. They've got CEO's, CFO's. Marcus: Yeah, you're not meeting the person at the front door. You're meeting the person at the sea level. Liz: Yeah, and they get to tell you their story, which is always interesting. Then they get to talk about the good stuff that they're doing in the community. And you learn a lot, especially not being from Mobile, you learn the history of the city. We did a timeline at our first retreat. They do an overnight retreat out in Fairhope at Camp Beckwith and it's tons of fun. It's bonfire, we all bunk with each other, and they do this thing where they have a big ol' time line and you mark, "Okay, this is the inception of the city." So, you either were born this date or you moved here on this date. So, everybody puts a marker on when you moved here whether you left and came back. At that point, everybody gets to share their story of how they came in, what they perceived, will they stay. All things Mobile. You start to learn ... One of them, she's a city attorney, [inaudible 00:37:25]. What's her name? Marcus: It's okay. Liz: Can't think of her name. Anyway, you would think she was a historian or something. She knew everything about Mobile, but it was so cool coming from somebody who ... I didn't know much about the city, but it just opened up a whole new idea of the city. Thinking it's not a sleepy little old town. There's a lot going on here and there's a lot that has happened here. Marcus: I think as an outsider, and you can appreciate this, too, coming from Dallas. I came from D.C. One of the things that I love about this city is that the people that are doing cool things in this city are people, individuals that are just saying, "Hey, I wanna start this thing." And we're not really a city that larger brands look to. Which is kind of a bummer in some instances because it'd be nice to be able to get some clothes people and stuff like that 'cause shopping is a little bit difficult. Liz: Right. Marcus: It would be nice to have some more options there. Outside of that, it's nice because we do have small businesses that are here, that are providing services. It just makes for a different texture to the city. Liz: Absolutely. Marcus: Instead of D.C. where it's like, you've got an Olive Garden, a Maggiano's , and some other Italian place, I can't remember enough of the names. But three different choices and none of them ... Well, Maggiano's is good, but anyway, none of them are very good. Liz: Right. Marcus: But here we've got a lot of different business owners that have started restaurants. When I think of Foy, or I think of Vaughn's, or I think of Rooster's, or even El Papi, or Five, or all these different restaurants, it's like none of those are huge corporations with hundreds of locations. These are all just individuals that have started restaurants. It's just so cool to go to these places and you're always very friendly and so are all the other restaurateurs, they're always very friendly when you walk in 'cause they know the clientele is keeping them in business. Liz: Right. It's like Cheers. Marcus: Yeah, exactly. It's like where everybody knows your name. Liz: Yeah. It's funny 'cause we get a lot of people that are not from Mobile, Alabama at all. They're from all over, just coming in on the cruise ship, or coming in for a conference, or one thing or the other, 'cause we're near all the hotels. There's a common thread where they're like, number one, there's a ton of entrepreneurs. There's a lot of small business down here. It's so cool, it's just so quaint and all these things. Then they're like, "This is in Mobile?" It's like if we're just underestimated and then they come and see and it's like," [inaudible 00:40:03] pretty cool little town." Marcus: Just don't tell too many people. Liz: Right. Marcus: Not yet. Liz: Yeah, that's the thing. When they come in they're actually impressed. It's cool, I'm proud to be from here and I'm proud to, I have a business here. It's just cool all the way around from literally sourcing our ingredients locally, because we've got the perfect climate for everything as far as fresh produce is concerned. Marcus: You do get some of your stuff from- Liz: Everything. Well, all of our produce comes local. Marcus: Really? Liz: Of course, we have to outsource a lot of our specialty items like how we deal with hemp, and flax, and all- Marcus: You mean you don't get acai locally? Liz: No. We order that online and you'd be Marcus: I know. I joke because acai is actually a Brazilian fruit. I think it's very cool. I'm gonna say this, I very much love what you all are doing. I can literally like paleo pancakes is a favorite, the Thai chicken quesadilla absolutely love it, the jerk bowl is phenomenal, I love the acai bowl. I'm sitting here rattling this stuff off. I don't have a menu in front of me. Liz: I know. I'm like, "Hey." Marcus: She's like, "Hey, he knows my menu." Liz: I know. Marcus: What's the smoothie that I always get? Liz: PB and J? Marcus: No, it's the hummingbird. Liz: Oh, yeah. The hummingbird. Marcus: The hummingbird. See? Even the smoothie. No joke, give them a shot. Tell people where they can find you. Liz: On all social media outlets, we're at Foy Super foods. Foy is an acronym for the Fountain of Youth and we call ourselves the super food café. We of course, take pride in all of our ingredients. We have an open concept so you can see our kitchen, see all the stuff that we're using and putting out. We're in Bienville Square right on Dauphin Street. It's 119 Dauphin in the old Tom McCann building which I've heard was a shoe store that everybody used to shop at back in the day. Marcus: That's too cool. I did not know that. Yeah, that is cool. Liz: Yeah. Yeah, hopefully Foy number two will be right around the corner. We're looking and in negotiation for a couple different spots right now. Marcus: In general, you don't have to say exactly but in general, can you say where that might go? Liz: Yeah, definitely Airport Boulevard. Somewhere with a lot of traffic. Marcus: Over in that direction. Liz: Not too far west, but pretty central to make it easier for people to get to us. Definitely gonna have ample parking. We're shooting for a drive-through and we're trying to step it up a little bit because that's a lot of the feedback that we get from our customers now. Marcus: Nice. Liz: It's like, "Oh, my gosh. I would eat at Foy so much more if I could find a place to park." Marcus: Yeah, there's no parking down where you're at right now. Liz: Exactly, yeah. Marcus: But honestly, with as busy as you are normally when we go in, I don't know that you could handle ... 'Cause that is a true testament. You guys are always busy when I go in there. Liz: Yeah, busting out at the seams of the little place. We've got 1600 square feet and we've added some outdoor seating, but we're rocking and rolling. Marcus: If it's raining or cold outside. Liz: Well, that too. Yeah. When it rains, which is pretty much every day here. Marcus: Well, I wanna thank you again for coming on the podcast. Wrap up any final thoughts or comments you'd like to share? Liz: Well, just pretty much of course, I'm honored that you asked me to come here and share some of my stories.   Marcus: I'm glad we did. I had no idea. Liz: Yeah. Of course, we love seeing you guys. I know you guys come in all the time and definitely just appreciate the love and I love what you guys are doing. Any way that we can help each other out, I'm all about it.   Marcus: Yeah, absolutely. Liz: It's interesting to learn, even too, your background. I saw your face. I'm like, "He's got the olive skin." You've got this look and I was wondering are you from here? But it's cool to just find different people. Especially, of Latin decent here in the city. Marcus: Yeah, yeah. 'cause there's not that many. Liz: No, no there aren't many. Marcus: Not like Dallas or Laredo. Liz: Right. Yeah, Laredo, for anybody who doesn't know, is like little Mexico. Marcus: Yeah, I was gonna say- Liz: You can't even go to McDonald's and order in english. Nobody speaks english. Marcus: Right, yeah. "Hola, Buenos Dias." Liz: Right. Marcus: Well Liz, I appreciate your willingness to sit with me and share your journey as a business owner and entrepreneur. It's been great talking with you. Liz: Cool, thanks a lot.

On this week's podcast, Marcus sits down with Jeri Stroade. From growing up in small farm town in Kansas to developing a heart for the displaced, she finds herself helping a special group of people right here in Mobile, AL. Tune in to hear about where she came from, her greatest life lessons, and her current role as the Executive Director at Dwell Mobile. Jeri: I'm Jeri Stroade, I'm the Executive Director of Dwell Mobile, it's a non-profit in Mobile that helps refugees. Marcus: Awesome. Jeri it's good to have you on the podcast today. Jeri: It's good to be here. Marcus: Yeah. Jeri: Thank you. Marcus: Now, I've learned a little bit about the area in which you operate and so I'm glad that we're getting, this will be able to shine kind of a light on something that people may or may not understand. But before, we get into all of that as part of this podcast we like for people to know a little bit about the person behind the effort. And so, why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are and where you're from, where'd you go to high school, college if you went, are you married? Just give us some backstory. Jeri: Okay. Well, I'm from Kansas, so the Midwest not the south. And I went to high school in a town called Pretty Prairie Kansas. Marcus: Gotta love Kansas for those names. Jeri: Yes, you do. Marcus: Yes. Jeri: And it was named after an old Mennonite woman who when she came through she said, "Oh my, what a pretty prairie." Marcus: Pretty Prairie Kansas. Jeri: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Marcus: I can imagine the graduating class was quite large at your high school. Jeri: Yes, yes. No, I think 27. Marcus: Oh my gosh. Jeri: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Marcus: Wow. Jeri: Yeah. So, the town was 600. Marcus: My graduating class had more people than your town had in it. We had I think close to 700 people in our graduating class. Jeri: Wow. Yep. Marcus: Our high school was close to 4,000 people. Jeri: Wow, yeah. Marcus: So, yeah. Jeri: Yeah, it was very small. Marcus: Anyway. Jeri: I moved around growing up and moved back there in high school and I was a little scared about how small it was, but I loved it. And went to college at Kansas State. Marcus: Very good. Jeri: University. From there got a degree in agricultural economics. Marcus: That's useful. Jeri: It is useful actually. It's very useful. I do use it all the time, you would never think that but I do. Marcus: Speaking as somebody who has an English degree. Jeri: Ha, ha. Marcus: So, I'm similarly useful. Jeri: Right, right. Yeah, you have people when you tell them that degree that everywhere from they don't have any clue what you do to, "Oh, you should know a little bit about everything because that sounds like a very useful degree." Marcus: Yeah. Jeri: I'm single, no family here, family back home. Marcus: Back home. Jeri: But, yeah. Marcus: Still in Pretty Prairie? Jeri: No, Manhattan now. Manhattan, Kansas. Marcus: Oh, wow. Okay. Jeri: Where Kansas State is. Marcus: That's a far stretch from Pretty Prairie. Jeri: Oh my goodness. Marcus: Manhattan? Phew. You gotta love it when states name a city or a town after like a major metropolitan area. I mean like Manhattan, you're like, "Oh, yeah they're in Manhattan but it's Kansas." You know, population 1,200. Jeri: That's right. Marcus: You know. So, how in the world first of all did you find yourself in Mobile, and then starting a non-profit? Jeri: Well, I never thought I would be in Mobile. You know, a funny story about Mobile. I came down here for a conference for Ag Economics. I had like a paper in it and it was down at the ... Marcus: Convention Center? Jeri: ... Convention Center. Marcus: Yeah. Jeri: And I went down, presented, came back and somebody said, "How'd you like it?" And I guess, I do not remember saying this but I guess I said, "Oh, it was nice but I would never want to live there." And this girl reminded me of that when I decided to move here. She said, "Do you remember when you said this?" Which, no. Marcus: Yeah. Jeri: My degree was in Ag Economics, International Development. Marcus: Okay. Jeri: Emphasis, and so I kind of thought I'd be overseas working with like a US Aid type of thing or something like that. And just sort of my path changed a little, I started getting interested in refugees before anybody really knew what they were, and even kind of myself. But I had always kind of had a heart for the poor, had a heart for different cultures, and it seemed to mesh that way. And then basically I came down here because friends of a friend had started this church and did this international student stuff down here. And so, I was looking at what they were doing and I liked what they were doing. I was ready to move away a little bit an I thought, "I'm going to go try that." And that was seven years ago. I didn't expect to be here this long. Marcus: Wow. Jeri: Yeah. Marcus: Yeah, no, it's funny how at times the very thing in which you don't expect to happen is exactly what happens. Jeri: Right. And I love what I'm doing. I wouldn't want to be doing anything else so it's funny to me because I would have never put myself here in doing what I'm doing. Marcus: Well, I mean you kind of answered what is normally my next question. So, I usually ask, what was your first job and were there any lessons that you still remember from that? And I guess that still applies. You talked a little bit about how you found yourself in Mobile and starting this non-profit, but go back in time to ... Do you remember your first job? Jeri: My first job ever? Marcus: Yeah. Jeri: It was probably babysitting. Marcus: Like, no, I mean your first job outside of the normal. Jeri: Like professional job? Marcus: I normally tell people, think of around when you were 15, 16, 17 years of age. Jeri: Okay. Marcus: And you were flipping burgers or making sandwiches somewhere, that job. Jeri: Okay. My job was I drove a wheat truck. Marcus: A wheat truck? Jeri: Yes. Marcus: In Kansas. Jeri: Because I was in Pretty Prairie Kansas. Marcus: Yes, I love it. Jeri: And everybody farmed. Marcus: No, that's cool. Jeri: So, I wanted a summer job and you could make a lot of money. You worked a lot because you had harvest and everything. Marcus: Right, yeah. Jeri: And there was this guy, he was like the head of our youth group sponsor or whatever and he said, "Yeah, you can come work for me." And so, I drove a wheat truck for him. Marcus: Very cool. Now, were there any lessons that you learned out of that first job that you've carried with you? Jeri: I mean, the typical one that I mean it's true, is hard work. There wasn't anything harder than sitting out there waiting. You would sit out there and then you'd work 12, 13, 14 hour days and come back and do it again the next day. I think overall I ended up working for him for like a full, that was just during harvest and then I ended up working for him for a full summer, and he was very gracious to me. I would sometimes drive through the wrong field or mess up his equipment, like hit it on the elevator when I went through, so I wasn't the best wheat truck driver. But he was always very ... I mean I think he got a little irritated but he was always very gracious and generous, and so patient. And so, I feel like I carry that with me now of even for myself being patient with myself when I mess things up. But also trying to be patient with other people I'm working with. Marcus: You know it's interesting because I don't know that I've ever explained why I ask that question. Well, one of the reasons why I ask that question is because of how you just answered. So, you talk about the patience and generousness of this man and how you still carry that with you, well that is the intention behind this. And also just to get business owners thinking about, well if you're hiring people they carry those lessons that you provide to them into their life. And how you impact their life can either be a positive impact or it can be a really negative impact because I think we've all worked for people where it's just like, "How was this person even born? They're just horrible individuals." So, I'm appreciative of how you answered because it is very true. Those lessons, they're oftentimes carried with us into our professional careers and into our adult lives. Jeri: Yeah. Marcus: Right? Jeri: That's good. Marcus: Yeah. Jeri: It's good for me to remember at this point of I'm on the other end now where people are working for me in different capacities. Marcus: Yeah. Jeri: So, it's good. Marcus: Especially anybody that's working with interns or young people of any kind. It is a testing of your patience to deal with young individuals because oftentimes they don't have the skill set and they're coming to you basically for on the job training. Jeri: Yeah. Marcus: Anyway. So, how did you get started as Dwell? And do you call it Dwell or Dwell Mobile? Jeri: Both. Marcus: Both? Okay, so I'll just refer to it as Dwell. Jeri: Yeah, that's good. Marcus: How did you get started as Dwell? Jeri: When I came down here I worked with a group of people called All Nations Community Church and they had an international church. And my question was, do you do anything with refugees? And they said, "Oh, we want to." So, I came down to help them start an outreach for refugees. And as I got into it I saw the guy I worked with was very wise and said, "Why don't you just go listen to them? Get to know them and listen to what they need." And so, I did that and I heard, "We need relationship." And so I started thinking, "How can this group of people, the church, build relationships with this group of people, these people coming as refugees?" And so, as I got into that I saw several things, one of them was it takes a lot to help one family who's coming here. They need a lot. The other one was, so many people I started meeting in Mobile, like outside of that little church, it was little, didn't even know there was refugees here, but they wanted to be involved. Marcus: So, pause there for a second, and I'm going to mess this up. From my understanding is that Mobile is one of x number of communities around the United States that refugees are regularly sent to. Jeri: That's right. I don't know the x number. Marcus: Okay, you don't know the x number either? I wanted to say that it was like one of 12 or 20 or something. I mean it's not a large number of communities that get refugees. Jeri: It's the only city in Alabama. Marcus: Okay. Jeri: I know that. Marcus: And so, I know a little bit about this in the sense that I know that when a refugee family is brought here there are cultural differences, how do they integrate themselves, how do they learn the language oftentimes? They don't know how to get around? You start thinking about if anybody's traveled overseas, that's just going for a vacation and oftentimes you have a lot of disposable income and you're going over and you can pay people to overcome your shortcomings as a member of their society. But when you're thinking about somebody who doesn't have a lot coming here. So, how do you all work with those types of folks to help them integrate? Jeri: Right. When they come they get resettled by an agency, there's nine different ones around the US that have said, "We'll resettle refugees." We are not one of them, it's like Catholic Charities is the one here in Mobile. And so, they get six to nine months of help through Catholic Charities. So, Catholic Charities sets them up with an apartment, gives them a case worker, helps them get a job, helps them get enrolled in school, things like that. We step in kind of at the end after that's over. And so, if you can imagine, I often tell people that too of just like going to a new place where you have to learn the language, any professional skills or training you've had in your former life don't apply here. And then you have to restart over, how long that would take you. And so, we're looking more in the development world. There's a relief and there's development. And sort of like Catholic Charities provides the relief and the start. We look more at trying to provide the development like helping them. And so, one of the things that we do see ... We do several things but a lot of what we do is based in the relationships, that we try to help people ... Marcus: Yeah, it can be very lonely thing to move. Jeri: Yes. And they're often coming from places were community is so much more important than here. So, that's what I hear a lot. Like I just heard, I don't know I got an email a few weeks ago and we had, had this cultural night. This guy emailed and said, "Thank you ..." He had just arrived in February and this was in March, he's from somewhere in Africa. And he said, "For the first time in my life since coming to Mobile I have been lonely. And I want to thank you for everything you're doing because for the first time in a month me and my family felt connected to people when we came to this event you guys had." Marcus: Yeah, that's amazing. Jeri: Yeah. And I think and I'm seeing this of if you ... We do some other things too, some other like practical things, but that relational network when they're come especially from those cultures, that provides a structure. And you're out there on your own, you left, you went through all these circumstances to get here and then you get here and you're on your own again. And so, if you can provide some relationship stuff, that helps them to feel like they have the network they need to try things. And helps with depression, it helps with a lot of things that in our society I think a lot of times we have a fear of some of these people. And so, one of the things that connection can help with, if there is a reason to be afraid of them being radicalized they won't. Marcus: Right. Jeri: If they feel connected to their community. Marcus: They have a familiarity and a connection then they're not going to go in that direction. Jeri: Yeah. Marcus: I know that this is news now because for years refugees have been coming here and nobody really said anything about it. And granted at some level it was a little bit scary just because of the sheer number of people that could have been brought. And there have been some issues in other countries where you bring in so many people into one area and it changes the culture of that area. Putting all that aside, that's not happening here. Jeri: Right. Marcus: And so, doing our best as a country that has a good heart and has a lot to offer, whether it's welfare or education or whatever just being good stewards of that and sharing it with those people that we've brought here, it's cool that you guys have kind of taken on that mantle to kind of help onboard them, to borrow a technolgoy term, we're onboarding you into the American way. That sounds like such a horrible thing to say but hey, it fits, you know. So, anyway, that's very cool that you do that. Jeri: Yeah. And I think one of the things as you're talking about some of that, that I'm thinking about is so many of the people that we talk to and we help we hear from them that they know their lives will not actually be better here. You're talking about acclimating and everything, but they have hope for their children. Marcus: Right. Jeri: And so, they've come and they've left. And these are people who I think that it's important to make the distinction, they have come through the UN, they've been in a refugee camp for five to seven years, they've gone through in all total one and a half to two years of screening, you know vetting. Marcus: Right. Jeri: So they didn't just wander here. Marcus: Right. They didn't land here on a boat. Jeri: Right. And so many of them come because of they see that it's an opportunity, they have opportunities here for their children that they wouldn't have. Marcus: Yeah, and we're often times talking about doctors and lawyers and professional people that you're saying they know that their lives aren't going to be better off but they're hopeful that their children are. You know they're coming here and giving up often times what they fought so hard for as their livelihood and their accepting a lesser position in life because they know that the opportunities that their children are going to have. And interesting to me because I often talk about the immigrant mentality. My father came here with the Peace Corp in the 60's if I remember correctly. Jeri: He came here? Marcus: Came here with the Peace Corp in the 60's. And it's hard for me to recognize the difference in how he raised me because I was raised by him, so I don't know any different, but the truth is that there's something very different about the immigrant mentality when you come to the United States, there's all the acclimation and stuff like that. Now, he came to teach Portuguese to people that were in the Peace Corp because they were going to Brazil in order to help people. And so he had some ability in language and stuff like that, so he didn't have that issue but he did, I'm sure there was some periods of ... I've been to the town where he grew up, there ain't nothing there. Jeri: In Alabama? Marcus: No, so my father in Brazil. Jeri: Oh, in Brazil. Marcus: I've been to the town that he's from in Brazil and no offense Dad if you're listening to this but even I guess it was 30 years or so ... when did I go? It was like 1990, so it was like 30 some odd years later, there still wasn't anything there. Jeri: Wow. Yeah. Marcus: It's a little salt mining town in Brazil in the North Eastern tip. And so, I can only imagine what it was like for him to come to the states. I think he landed if I remember correctly in Upstate New York and then he kind of migrated to Ball State, went to school got his undergrad and part of his Master's degree at Ball State, and then ended up moving out to DC. But all that to say is, I have discussions with people and I very much can tell somebody who was raised by parents who are not of the United States versus somebody that was raised ... there's this scrappiness like this understanding like, you have got to ... And it's not all, I'm generalizing, but the immigrants often times they have sacrificed a lot to be here so there's a lot of pressure put on the children because there was so much sacrifice. Jeri: Right. Well, and I'm not first, second, third generation but I think about a lot of times, I think about the difference between a Mid West culture and a Southern culture. Marcus: Oh absolutely. Jeri: Because I moved here. But, in the Mid West there was always this pioneering type of thing that's going on because that's the people who moved there. Marcus: Right. Jeri: The people who had to go settle the land and all this stuff. And actually statistically like it's real the percentage of immigrants that start their own ... you probably know this. The percentage of immigrants that start their own business is higher than the percentage of native born Americans, and then also the percentage of refugees within that is higher. Marcus: Right. Jeri: And so, you think about there's a, yeah I guess that pioneering spirit because yes these people have left because they were forced in some ways to leave but there's people who stayed too. Marcus: Right. Jeri: And so, if they're forced to leave then they have that ... I mean it's probably sort of a make it or break it, you have to, but also just some of the people I've met and I work with is just like they're just always thinking, "Oh, you could do this. You could do this as a business. You could do this. You could do this." Marcus: Right. Jeri: And that's one of the things and reasons I'm doing what I'm doing is because even more so after I've gotten into it I see, like I feel like our society is missing out on the richness that they have to offer us, if we put them in this box and stick them over here. Marcus: Right. Jeri: Like our mission statement is providing opportunities for refugees to thrive. Like, if we don't do those things then our society I think is missing out. Marcus: Right. Well, and I think there's a lot to learn. I will say that the one thing that I have very much appreciated about the South is their focus on family. Jeri: Yes. Marcus: Right. And so, growing up in the Northern Virginia area it was a very transient area and often times people were moving there because of a job and they weren't moving there because their family was there. They were just passing through, they were going to spend three to five years and then they were moving on to wherever they were going to be stationed next. And so, there's not a big web if you will of extended family but here in the South there, and so, I very much appreciated that. So, what I'm about to say does not apply here but there's a lot to be learned from those other cultures and about the importance of family and the importance of that foundation. Jeri: Yeah. Marcus: And so, I think it's cool that not being from the South but you're giving them, you're showing them the Southern hospitality that this area's known for. Jeri: Right. And one of the things ... I agree. And one of the things that has struck me about working here in Mobile specifically is how much of the focus is on family and so, there's several people I've worked with over the years, both refugees and Mobilians that you bring somebody to visit, which they love it when people come to visit their homes. But sometimes you get a family and you bring that American family to visit and you're bringing like 10 people because you have the kids and the sisters and the whatever. And there's been times that I sit there and I look at it in these little apartments and I'm thinking, "Oh, we're eating too much of their food," or, "Oh, we're really making a mess," or, "We're filling up their apartment, and it's probably too loud for them." And then I have to remember like, "No, they're from somewhere where they have seven sisters and you would visit them every day but they're not there anymore." And so I do think that's a very unique strength that Mobile and the South has as far as welcoming people is like, you bring the whole family and you welcome them as a family, and that's how they think. Marcus: Yeah, absolutely. Jeri: Yeah. Marcus: Alright so we're going to get back on track because I have these questions but I'm just so fascinated by what you really like. Yeah, I'm just wanting to dive into it. If you were talking to someone that wanted to get started and running their own non-profit ... Jeri: Okay. Marcus: ... what's the one bit of wisdom that you would impart to them? Jeri: These are the hard ones. Marcus: Oh yeah. Jeri: The one bit of wisdom? As I have done this and gotten to know myself more, I know I'm the visionary person, which means I'm the person that's not the best at details. Marcus: Sure Jeri: So I think a bit of advice that I would say is, one, you can do it. You know if you're the visionary, if you find yourself like that, because sometimes I get paralyzed cause I think, "Oh there's this huge vision," and I don't even know how to start by making it happen. No, that's not true, break it down into little pieces and do a little bit of a plan and take that next step, and you will have something before you know it. The other thing would be to get a team of people around you, or one, or two people around you who agree with your vision who are good with the details, and then educate yourself. There's so many things when you start some thing that it's just like, "Oh, there's this whole other world of this or whole other world of this," and if you know a little bit you realize how much you don't know. And I think more and more going forward I need to find people who know those things more than, "Oh, I need to just know about everything." Marcus: Yeah, there's this as you're bootstrapping something, to borrow a business term, as you're bootstrapping something there's often times the necessity to go out and learn things because you don't have the ability to have somebody handle something. But as you grow it's more important, the velocity with which somebody else can just execute on something and you hand that off as a responsibility is much more important than you actually learning everything about it and executing it. It's a switch as an organization matures. And there was something else that you said in there about being a visionary. And often times in the business world the visionary is the CEO. Jeri: Right. Marcus: And so, your description is, well the Executive Director is really that role as the CEO of a company. And so, if somebody is a visionary then that's perfectly fine, as a matter of fact starting and running an organization is probably what God intended for you to do. But you also need to be cognizant of who it is that you are and find other people like you were describing that buy into the vision and have them help you execute on the details. Jeri: Right. Marcus: So, now it's perfect. Jeri: Yeah. And the thing I'm noticing now as we're growing, which I don't know if this is going to get into other questions, but, is the structure of it the more I don't get excited about structure, but the more I see that we can have some of that, that doesn't suck the life out of the organization, like a good structure that it will take stress off of me. Marcus: Exactly. Jeri: Because then it's not on your shoulders it's on the structure that you're building. Marcus: Right. No, most definitely. I even tell the team here when I hire people it's because I'm hiring them to take over something that I am just not having time to do. Jeri: Yeah. Marcus: Right? Jeri: Yeah. Marcus: And so, the more that you can kind of hand-off those pieces of responsibility, the more effective your organization becomes. Now, what are you all currently working on at Dwell? Any efforts or anything that you can talk about? Jeri: Yes. Yeah. Well we're finishing this up but we just started our big program is cultural acclimation classes sort of. Marcus: Okay. Jeri: And we partner with Spring Hill College, the Foley Center, and we have the classes actually there because they have English classes on the other nights. And so, we were thinking some of the people going there could also come to our classes. But we restructured them a little this Spring. So, we run them for eight or nine weeks, Spring and Fall, and a lot of it is built around building community and meeting people. And so, that's what most of our programs or events are structured like that. I tell people like you go in and it feels very messy or kind of chaotic, and sometimes it is really chaotic. Marcus: Embrace it if it exists. Jeri: Right. But there's life. There's lots of life to it. So, we meet one night a week, eat dinner and this semester we have changed them so they can pick from different tracks that they want to do. And so, they can pick English, GED, citizenship classes, driving classes. And then we have a whole nother program for the kids at the same time. Marcus: That's cool. Jeri: We're finishing that up and then this summer is going to be more just getting volunteers in homes and vising and stuff like that. And then some of that stuff happening organically. Marcus: Nice. Jeri: Yeah. Marcus: Very cool. Are there any books, podcasts, people, or organizations that have been helpful in moving you forward? Jeri: Yes. Marcus: Okay. You're going to have to expand on that. Jeri: There's a lot. Books, podcasts, organizations, or people? Marcus: People, yeah. Jeri: I always go back to this book and this is not a business book but it was really helpful for me. One of the things that I look at is, I'm a person of faith so I think, how does my faith work out practically in my life? And that's what I'm talking about, how does it inform how I serve people? And there's a book called Pursuing Justice by Ken Wytsma who is a Creative Director at World Vision. Marcus: Okay. Jeri: And he writes about God's heart for justice basically. And so, that has helped me even in the thing that I call our organization is a value based organization, so we have these values we run off of and when we are looking at new things to do, does it match up to this value? And even in how we run things we have these values that we want to make sure get hit on and that we're operating from. And so, just that book has helped me see those things are legitimate. It's not just like a fluffy thing but it's ... I don't know if he would be listening to this, Todd Greer has helped me a lot. Marcus: Oh, don't do that. Jeri: Come on. Marcus: Yeah. Jeri: Yeah. Marcus: Todd can be an influential person. Jeri: Yes, he can be if he wants to be. Marcus: If he wants to be. If he so chooses. No, we love Todd. He's doing wonderful things now up at University of Mobile. Jeri: Yeah. Marcus: Now, what's the most important thing that you've learned about running a non-profit? Jeri: Wow. Marcus: I didn't tell you these were going to be easy questions. Jeri: I know, I was hoping you would send them to me before. Marcus: No, no, no, no. Jeri: So I can look smart. Marcus: I did that once or twice and you could feel it in the answers that the person gave. Jeri: Oh, yeah. Marcus: It was just too polished. Jeri: They were ready. Marcus: And I was like, "No, that's not how we're playing this game." I want everybody giving her a few more seconds here, so I want everybody that's listening to this podcast to know they have never seen these questions. Now granted the questions get asked often times on previous episodes but unless you've listened to these a lot you're not going to recognize that there's some repetition in the questions. Those of you that listen understand that there is a lot of repetition but she's never seen these questions before so she's over here in the hot seat. Jeri: So, the one most important thing? I also like to talk so I can tell you like five. I would say for a non-profit, especially I feel like the area I'm in, knowing when you need to rest is one of the most important things. Marcus: Okay. Jeri: Because I'm doing what I'm doing because I have a heart for helping people but if I don't rest then pretty soon I get bitter and I don't really want to help anyone. Marcus: Right. And giving yourself the freedom to do that. Jeri: Giving yourself the freedom to do that. And having little like ... this was actually a book I started reading that Todd recommended called Called to Create and the guy ... No, it was on something else, anyway. I heard somebody say once, "You get what you celebrate." And so, the idea is you have to celebrate the little things that happen are sometimes reflective of bigger things that are happening. So I always think ... And it's in one of our values of we're not going to meet every need and we can't, but it's more like what you're called to be doing. And so, I just have to remind myself, I can't jump if I see you need a car and a job and an apartment. Marcus: You can't just provide that. Jeri: I'm not going to be able to do all that stuff. Marcus: Yeah. But you can be a friend. Jeri: I can be a friend. Marcus: Right. Jeri: And so, if I can do that and then if I can have my limits of, "Okay, well that's great, sorry you need a car but, okay." Marcus: I'm not Daddy Warbucks. Jeri: Yeah. So, that gives me a lot of freedom to go ahead and then go be your friend. Marcus: Right. Jeri: And I think that's important otherwise I would be burnt out, I would not have any vision or passion left, and I would not be able to help others to do the things that I'm doing as well. Marcus: I think that principle applies in business too. So often times we talk on this podcast about how business owners have a tendency because it is their baby, they have a tendency to get wrapped around the axle when it comes to their business and that's all they want to focus on. And the truth is that you have to force yourself to not just focus on that but also to take time away because it's often times in those times away when you have your greatest visions, and your epiphanies about what it is that you should be doing. Jeri: Yes. Marcus: And you also start to see the weaknesses in your business or the strengths in your business. Anyway, that principle definitely applies in a number of different ways. Now, tell people where they can find you. Jeri: www. Marcus: You don't have to do that. You can leave off the www thanks. Jeri: You can see I'm a very technical person. ​ Marcus: Okay. Jeri: We're on ​. Marcus: Facebook. Jeri: We're on ​. Marcus: Okay, very good. Does your organization have any needs? Jeri: We do have needs, yes. Marcus: Okay, what are some of those needs? So, somebody out there is listening and they're so inclined, what would be the one or two things that you would ask them to do? Jeri: Well, we ... I mean I was just telling you we have a fundraiser coming up soon that's probably passed by the time people will hear this but we're always in need of funds. Marcus: Yeah. Jeri: This is kind of what we tell people, we have a good base of starting of good programming, I like it. And we have great volunteers, we can always use volunteers. The thing about volunteering is I ask for certain levels of commitment to that because it's not helpful to hae somebody like float in and out a lot. Marcus: Good. Jeri: Because we're trying to build relationships. Marcus: Yeah. Right. Jeri: So, if you have the time and you want, volunteering is great. The fundraising part and the money part I feel like we're operating at this level right now, we're growing, it's good. We will not be able to operate at this level very long because I will burn out and so will other people if we do not get money raised. Marcus: Right. Jeri: So, that would be something people can do. Marcus: Yeah, funding and volunteering. Yeah, so if you have money and you're so inclined sometimes that's what you're called to do. Jeri: Right. Marcus: That gift of giving is definitely very strong in some people. And so, this is definitely a worthy organization. And if you just have a heart for people and becoming friends with those that are the disenfranchised of the world. They've been placed in a new place and don't really know anything about it, then this is a great organization to get plugged into. Jeri: Yes. Marcus: Well, I want to thank you again for coming on the podcast. Any final thoughts or comments you'd like to share? Jeri: I don't think so. Thank you for having me. Marcus: Yeah. Jeri: I appreciate it. Marcus: Absolutely. No, I love it. Jeri: It was fun. Marcus: We call ourselves the Mobile Alabama Business Podcast, but we also sit with people that we feel like have something great to offer and you are definitely one of those people with a heart and passion that you're pursuing the refugees in this area. So, thank you for what you're doing. Jeri: Thank you. Yep. Marcus: So, I appreciate your willingness to sit with me and share your journey as a non-profit Executive Director, it's been great talking with you. Jeri: Yes, you too. Thank you very much.

In it's third year of publication, Nonprofit Performance 360 Magazine set' records for quality and inspiration. Dr. Todd Greer, editor shares his vision for starting this great resource and his vision for the future. Todd Greer holds a Ph.D. in organizational leadership with a major in human resource development from Regent University in Virginia Beach, Virginia; a Master of Science in ministerial leadership from Amridge University in Montgomery, Alabama; completed graduate work in communications studies at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan; and a Bachelor of Arts in communication studies from Defiance College in Defiance, Ohio. He has numerous publications to his credit, including journal articles and book chapters, and has presented at national conferences. He has served as lead instructor and board member with the Mobile Area Chamber of Commerce's Innovation PortAL and instructor for the Chamber's Young Entrepreneurs Academy for high school students. He is a board member for United Way of Southwest Alabama and Springboard to Success Inc. which, with the Downtown Mobile Alliance, operates the Urban Emporium retail incubator. He is an advisory board member with Veterans Recovery Resources. He was an instructor with University of South Alabama's Minority Business Accelerator and an adjunct instructor at Spring Hill College. Previously, Greer was executive director of the SynerVision Leadership Foundation in Blacksburg, Virginia; minister of administration for Glen Allen Church of Christ in Glen Allen, Virginia; and head boys' volleyball coach at Highlight Springs High School and assistant women's volleyball coach at Virginia Union University, both in Richmond, Virginia.   Interview Transcript   Hugh: Greetings, and welcome to today's session of The Nonprofit Exchange. Today, we have a very special guest. Russell, it's the first time you've met Todd Greer. Dr. Greer was the one who started The Nonprofit Exchange. He is the founding and current editor of Nonprofit Performance Magazine. Todd, welcome. Todd: Thank you so much, Hugh. Great to be with you. Russell, I've heard such wonderful things about you, and it is great to at least virtually connect with you here. Russell: This is great. I've done my best to bring out your inner English teacher. Todd: It's important. Gaps. Hugh mentioned I was the editor as we started out. Hugh is definitely the publisher. He is not the editor. It is good to have other folks around like you, Russell, to help keep him in check. Russell: It takes a village. That is why there is more than one of us there. Todd: There you go. Absolutely. Hugh: The vision for The Nonprofit Exchange is to interview experts in different fields and to bring really good leadership principles into charities and churches and synagogues, often from business leaders. Todd, in addition to having your Ph. D in organizational leadership, you are ordained as a pastor, and now you are a dean at the University of Mobile. Am I correct? Todd: That is correct. It has been an interesting transition. Hugh and I met in 2014. Hugh had this wonderful vision. SynerVision Leadership Foundation had the vision for a magazine and a community of nonprofit thought leaders that could help to build capacity and to help build and move things forward. I think it's been a beautiful vision to see it come to light, to be something that I've been a part of and that has touched me deeply. Over the past two and a half years, I have been able to move down to Mobile from Virginia where he and I met, start a business down here, see that grow, and see a community of entrepreneurship really raise up. Now I have the opportunity to get in and engage with university students and to work to encourage them for the world that we're inventing each day. Hugh: We're glad to have the academic connection. Even though you have gone on to do some other great stuff, you're still shaping editorial policy. What we have done with the magazine is separate the commercial part from the editorial part. What I do is I'm the champion, and I bring people into the funnel that we set up so brilliantly and around the editorial policy that you shaped so that we keep it really clean and really valid journalism for leadership. Thank you for that contribution to humankind and to SynerVision. You launched The Nonprofit Exchange, which we are doing at 2 pm on Tuesdays EST, and the podcast. We are hitting about 15,000 listeners on this particular podcast, and I have 10,000 on Orchestrating Success. We share some interviews in common, but they are helping people think through their skillset and organizational development and personal skills for developing their teams. Talk about three years ago in September that we launched that first John Maxwell edition. As you were shaping out the vision for this magazine, talk about your thought process. What was important about how you laid down the tracks, and what does that look like? Todd: One of the things that we consistently saw as we were looking at the nonprofit space is that there is good research, and then there is speakers. Then there are some books that are written. But there is a gap in the middle. What we wanted to do was come in and give nonprofit leaders, whether they are board members, staff, or executives, the opportunity to be able to engage with deeper thoughts around a holistic idea. What we started from that day forward is to create these themes within our magazine so that you could look at what we could consider an evergreen concept, something that is not based upon a specific time. It's something that whether you are looking at it three years ago or today, the points are still valid, the theme is still important, it is something that drives home a needed opportunity in that space. We really worked to say, This is not an infomercial. This is not a chance to sell your book. This is not a chance to get yourself engaged in a speaking environment. This is really about bringing the best thought leadership from all over. We have worked with the athletic director of Virginia Tech. We have worked with bestselling authors. We have worked with professors from a number of top-notch schools across the country. We have worked with nonprofit facilitators. We have worked with people that do some speaking across the space. We have tried to engage and bring together for our listeners, for our audience, for our readers as many different engaging and unique perspectives that can help them move it forward. And the reality is we wanted a place that would challenge you. It's one of those things that oftentimes it is very easy for us to become stagnant or to reach a plateau. If we are engaged with new people all the time, it helps. The cornerstone of each issue, there are a couple things we wanted to lay out. One is we wanted to have that big name at that cover that you can look at. John Maxwell was quite a name to be able to start with. You see others that have gone on to head the cover of the magazine. They have done an amazing job. We have wanted to make sure that each magazine touched on board relations. Each magazine touched on that sense of funds attraction. Each magazine talked about a couple things. The second cornerstone of the magazine to me was the Nonprofits that Work Section. It's great to be able to think about these huge nonprofits that have great budgets and are extremely well-known. But how do we seed this idea, this theme exemplified in the life of a nonprofit that is probably going to be one you have never heard of before? We have been able to show these organizations all across the country who are doing exciting things around that theme. It's been one of those pieces where I have learned so many new amazing nonprofits to be able to point to them later on. In fact, there was one that we worked with not that long ago, The Mission Continues. Hugh, I don't know if you remember them from the work that we did with them, but it's exciting right now because Aaron Scheinberg, who we worked with from there, he is running for Congress in West Virginia. He was somebody that we worked with not that long ago on that article. The Mission Continues was a veteran organization to work to continue to engage vets as they come back stateside to continue in that mission, working in the nonprofit community that surrounded them to engage in different missions. You get to see those kinds of things. It's a beautiful thing to be able to engage and think about how all of the good ideas in nonprofit spaces don't come from just nonprofits. They come from all over. Hugh: Good principles are good principles. Part of your inspiration was to have a different theme for each edition. One of the real fun editions I remember was one with Frances Hesselbein on the cover, who is in her late nineties and is expert on millennials. We did this whole issue on millennials. You had an interest in it, as did I. I'm a boomer, you're a millennial. My article was about how we have similarities in core values and principles. You had this really good interview with Frances. Those are the top downloaded interviews on the Nonprofit Exchange podcast. Todd: Hugh, it's a beautiful thing. Frances has now just turned 100 or 101. She is still kicking. I have seen a couple pieces from her recently. I was telling my daughter this last evening. My daughter is a Girl Scout. Frances was for about a decade and a half the CEO of the Girl Scouts of the USA. I was telling her, You have to understand the legacy of those that have gone. My daughter is a third grader. I was explaining to her that what Frances has done, and I use Frances a lot when I am speaking to students, to be able to understand what it looks like that she is engaging, to never stop learning, to always open doors for others in the sense of when you find trustworthy people who are passionate, give them an opportunity. Open the door for them. They may be young or different from you. Whatever it is, understand that everybody needs a door opened for them. Hugh: Absolutely. You have crafted our submissions page. When you go to Nonprofitperofrmance.org, it will forward the URL to SynerVision's magazine page. Then there is a submissions page so people who want to contribute can go there and submit articles. There is very clear guidelines for submissions. The boardroom issue is being designed now, and it will be printed and distributed before the end of this year. Since people are listening to podcasts maybe at any time, it's important that the material on this podcast and in the magazine is timeless. Solid principle. I am going to let Russ insert some questions. Russ, you have been a contributor for the magazine. As you look at the guidelines Todd has crafted, and specifically the identification of the theme- Russ is a very gifted writer. Russ is one of our WayFinders. I don't know if you know that. He has gone through the certification. He is the first certified WayFinder, but we have some more in the chute. He is the guy forging the trail out there. Russ, how do the guidelines for writing and the description of the theme help you as a writer shape your contribution for that article? Russell: It's important to have a clear message that is direct, to the point, that has a lot of punch, and that forces you to really put your best thoughts on paper without any extraneous information. Also, it forces you to up your game because when you are looking at some of the people like Dr. Jeff Magee for example that are sending material into this magazine, you don't want to send a piece in there that is less than your best. People turn to this because they want to know what sort of things they can do to really enhance their performance. What are some of the best practices out there? What are some things that you can take away from this article and actually make it actionable? When I send a piece in, I ask myself what I want people to know, feel, and do. There should be one piece of actionable. If there is more than one, that's better. Sometimes people can get confused. I am trying to either put a sequence of actions or sequence of things to look for or some sort of actionable piece that somebody can take and implement today. It's important to be able to access, understand, and use that information. I was just surfing the Web today, and I came across a list from an organization called Giving Confidence, which points you toward nonprofit resources. It's five podcasts nonprofit people should listen to. I opened that in anticipation of seeing The Nonprofit Exchange. We're not there yet. We're going to make that list. They talk about why people should listen to that. We'll just keep doing what we're doing. At some point, we're going to end up on that list. I think that's a worthy goal for us to shoot for. Hugh: I'm glad to know about that. Russell, you weren't on the journey as we have gone forward. We are on our third year of the magazine, and it is hard to believe that we haven't talked about it on the podcast. We have three years of podcasts. Lots of episodes out there. From an outside perspective catching up, what kind of questions do you want to pose to Todd about the history of the vision or the future? Russell: One of the things I am interested in seeing, because you are in that university space, I was curious as to how many younger people like yourself are moving in to the space because they want to do work that matters and how many are looking at programs that focus on nonprofits and philanthropy. Are you seeing an uptick in that? Todd: That is a great question. If you go back to the work that we did on millennials, that's a huge issue. I don't have the stats in front of me, but the vast majority of millennials say they want to be part of a company and work that makes an impact, and they will do business with a brand that makes an impact. We see a greater sense of social responsibility in this generation than any other generation in quite some time. There is still that struggle of a gap between what I want and what I'm willing to do. So we know that that's not always something where that gap is closed. But we know that there is a desire. We do see it among our students. We happen to be at a university that is a private Christian institution. We have that faith basis in our students where they do want to go make impact. Across the community here in the Mobile area and across the state and the country, we are hearing more and more about programs like social entrepreneurship coming up. We are seeing people including the Beet Corp and other groups where they are saying they think there is a blurring of the line coming before us between the typical business and the typical nonprofit or charity. They do want to engage. They want to do something. The key right now that we are dealing with is how we make sure we are building the right capacity. I think that's to your point. Historically, one of the things we have consistently seen is that the people who come in to the nonprofit space are people who are passionate about a cause. Passion is extremely important. Books upon books upon books have been written of the last decade or so just on passion and why you should pursue your passion. One of the things we are very mindful of—this has been part of the lynchpin for us for the beginning—passion without guidelines, passion without the right framework or strategy or understanding, can be very dangerous. We are asking questions here about how we cross the line between our school of business and our school of ministry, between our school of business and education, between our school of business and music. We are asking those questions. It's already happening a lot in a lot of places, but you are going to see an increase in those. Folks like Businesses Mission is a concept that has really come up over the last handful of years. You have schools that are developing these centers. They are getting out there and serving. We have a great opportunity. I think it means a lot to our communities. I think going back to that millennial piece, and even touching into our current issue that will be coming out here in December about the boardroom. One thing that is important for our nonprofits is to make sure that they are engaging millennials and thinking about what it looks like to have diversity from an age perspective on their board as well. I think the younger generations are incredibly excited about the potential to make impact in the world. Russell: This is important. I have been engaged with my own church here in doing envisioning. We have been basing that on good to great for the social sectors. One of our local guys, Jim Collins, he is just up the road in Boulder. We started envisioning on that. One of the things that was said verbally was we really want to get young people involved. I dove into this process with him. I created a system to work with the faith-based community and created a coding system. What they say and what scores, there is a bit of a disconnect. This is something that is worth exploring further. We want younger people involved, but where are our actions leading us? There is an underlying- This wasn't done to scale to any scientific scale or with the thought of statistical validity in it. There is a lot of open-ended stuff that is my own interpretation of it. It's really interesting. I would love to share some of those codes with you, some of the coding idea with it. The other thing I wanted to say is we have a very strong Businesses Mission chapter. As a matter of fact, I am going tomorrow morning to the monthly meeting. Todd: That's great. What you said is spot-on. There are two pieces that have really stuck out to me. I don't know who said one, but I do know who said the other. Somebody said to me, “You will get what you celebrate.” Step back and think about it. In an organization, whether it's a nonprofit or for-profit, you will get what you celebrate. You say you want something. If you don't celebrate it when it happens, you're not going to get it. That is the reinforcement. When you celebrate something, you are reinforcing that this is the culture we are working to establish. Then the other piece is Chris Argyris. Chris was a theory guy. I want to say he was at Harvard Business School. One piece he brought to light is there is espoused values or theories, and there are values in action. There is often a discrepancy. You think about how many organizations you have come through. You see those values on the wall. You looked at those values and thought, I don't see those organizations. Hugh, you're laughing because you have seen it countless times both in a religious environment and in other nonprofit organizations. It's a hard thing. We set these ideals up, but we often don't create a concrete way to establish those throughout the organization. Going back to the celebration, we often don't celebrate when those things happen. Hugh: We forget that, don't we? I see Russell taking some notes. Russell grabs some sound bites in these that are very astute. Russell, when you were talking about how you construct an article, that was really good information. What do you want people to do? Todd, back to you. As we were putting this together back in the old days, was that part of our thinking? What do we want people to take away? You have a better recollection of some of this than I do. Your focus was on this more. What were some of the takeaways, the impacts, the results that we wanted people to have because they had the magazine? Todd: There are a couple things that really stuck out in the early days we were doing it. Russell, I think you said it great: know, feel, and do. I want people to know, to feel, to do what I want. One of the pieces we said is leading in a nonprofit organization can be lonely. One of the things we wanted to establish is you're not alone. You're not alone in this journey. The things that you're feeling are being felt all across the country by organizations big and small, by religious and those that are community-oriented in the nonprofit space. That was a big key for us because a lot of times when you are doing this on your own, who do you have to talk to? Can you share with your board these challenges? Can you share with your staff these challenges? Who can you talk to? A lot of times you are even afraid to share with other executives because you don't want to feel like you're the idiot in the room and you're the one who is falling short when other people, at least what they present, seem so strong. We want to be very real. These are issues that we're facing. That's one of the things that comes up in each one of these themes. The acknowledgement that we are all facing them. We have challenges we are facing. We need a variety of voices to encourage us moving forward. That was a big piece. Next to that is the big piece of we wanted to say this is more than just from the seat of our pants kind of framework. This is about how we work to establish real strategy in our organizations. I think that's one of the pieces that often gets lost. We do without thinking of the strategy. You go back to Stephen Covey's four quadrants. In the nonprofit space, because we are dealing with not an abundance of resources and staff, we are just going so fast through the things that become urgent or the things that flare up in front of us. We take care of those things. We don't step back to create that holistic strategy. The magazine and podcast were intended to encourage us to really step back and think about our strategy around these types of subjects. When we talk about leadership, what's your leadership strategy? How do you build a leaderful organization? I am going to go back to Joe Raelin; he was one of our guests about two years ago from Northeastern University. How do you create leadership throughout your organization? We have talked about succession planning. How do you make sure that when you're gone, the organization not only continues, but also thrives after you're gone? That was a big piece to this. We want you to think about that sense of strategy. What's going on? What's working? What doesn't work? When we talked with Frances and Joan, we looked at Peter Drucker's five most important questions. A lot of what they do is they want you to make sure you are periodically having that review process. For some time in our country, the after-action review was a pretty typical thing in certain types of organizations. In nonprofits, we don't do enough of that now. What worked, what didn't, how would we change it for the next time, and how do we continue to grow that to make sure that it's better fitting our mission and our customer moving forward? I think that's a really key issue that's often missing. Hugh, when you step back and think of all the organizations you've worked with, how many times do you see- In the for-profit world, we are talking about continuous improvement. Did you see a lot of that? Hugh: No. Todd: It's something that I think we do. When the thing is done, we go, Whooo. That was long and that was tiring and I'm so glad that we can put that in a box for a year. The next year, we'll pull that box out and regurgitate the same thing. We don't think about, Hey, this is something. Heaven forbid we ask, Is this thing necessary anymore? Do I need to do this anymore? Are we just doing it because it's what we've always done? Hugh: Absolutely. I was thinking about Caesar when he lost his wreath. He got off his throne and there it was. He said, “I have been resting on my laurels.” We want to get there and rest. We want to think we've made a plateau and we can stop. That's a dangerous place to be. I find that continuous improvement is the jargon in corporate America. What we work on in SynerVision is continuing improvement and personal development. The journey is never over. Part of crafting the whole process and the whole design of the magazine is there is different categories. I forget what you call them, different categories. There is Member Engagement, Strategy, Point/Counterpoint, Executive Office, Grants Corner, Academic Desk, Design Corner, Nonprofits That Work, Board Relations, and Systems Thinking. Talk about why those categories. We have had something in those categories every single issue. Todd: Those are big ones. We wanted to be able to really narrow in. One of the things that I think is way too easy when you are starting a magazine or any kind of medium is to say, “I'll accept this” and have it in this vague space. We wanted to give people a way to look forward to new things that were coming. Some of the pieces we referenced before that featured personality in the Nonprofit Works and the Board Relations—one of the things that we wanted to engage in this is Design Corner. One of the things in the Design Corner was always that idea that all too often, we tend to forget that things can look good and they can come together. In the church, for a long time, we lost our artists. We lost our designers and their input and their value. I think we are starting to see them come back again. The same thing is true in nonprofits. Just because you are a nonprofit doesn't mean that your website has to be ugly or that your engagement with your members or your engagement with your community has to be lacking thought. We wanted to make sure that happens. What this does is it gives us a framework that when we are going out to seek contributors or contributors are coming to us, they know that this is the target I am seeking. We want to make sure that the people we have are experts. They really are bringing their game to the table, and it's somebody that you can trust as you are hearing from them. I think that's a really important piece for us. Hugh, I want to touch on as well: We talked a little bit about this issue that is getting ready to go to print. I know some people will listen to this at some time in the future. One thing we have coming up is social media. Obviously, we don't live in a world where social media is a might. I might do social media. Whatever your organization is, social media is really important. Going back to strategy, you have to have a strategy for it. My wife and I were talking last night while watching an old episode of Madam Secretary. There is good and bad obviously about where we are in social media. Sometimes social media has created this perception of reality that is so far from it. It also has allowed people to get a platform that some people should never have. There are things that are going on where you think you never should have a platform. But nonprofits have a great opportunity to engage with their community, with their members, with their public through a very intentional strategy in social media. We want to make sure people are really conscious in thinking about it. Another tendency is that we look at whomever is the youngest person on our staff and we say, “You're in charge of social media,” just like we say, “You're in charge of graphic design,” just like we used to say, “You're in charge of web design.” We can't just throw it on the youngest person. They may be good, but you have to have a real consistent strategy for you organization. What does this social media strategy look like throughout? What are organizations that are doing it really well? We always want to find those people who are exemplars in our field. How does that impact the board? What's the board's role in that? Do you expect your board members to tweet out everything that is happening from your Twitter account? Do you expect them to engage? What does that look like? What are the expectations that you have? That one is coming up here soon. Following that is what Russell and I were hinting at: this future of the public/private partnership. We are going to continue to see growth in that area. The moniker “charity” is something that really has a bad connotation in our society now. What a charity does is it comes without strategy and without fiscal strategy and they come and say, “Please give to me so that I can give to others.” We love to give. But we are asking the ROI question. Just like we asked return on investment, we are asking what the return is on my impact, on my giving in the nonprofit sector. We really want to make sure that we are thinking strategically not only about where we are at right now, but also about what is coming down the pipeline. How do we make sure that we build the right partnerships with the corporate entities in our environment? If we care about this issue and you care about this issue, how can we collaborate to be able to make real impact in our community? Hugh: That's a word that most of our charities don't understand. Russell, we are rounding out to the final nine minutes of our interview. I am going to give you some more air time. You have some good questions. Is there one brewing for Todd? Russell: When it comes to social media, it was interesting. I was at the Socratic café at the University of Denver. Me and a few other guys get together on Saturday nights to do that. We had an ongoing discussion for eight weeks about isolation. Social media came up, and one of them pointed out, “You seem to be very comfortable. I haven't seen anybody your age that is that comfortable with social media.” I don't know everything, but we talked about being isolated even though people are on social media. There were a lot of things, pro or con, that were raised with social media. There is a balance to be struck, and it's not totally evil or good. We want to be able to have these face-to-face interactions. There is nothing like face-to-face interaction. Social media is a tool. I think a lot of people view it as some sort of mysterious scale of people. After you turn 25, your brain oozes out of your ears, and you have no clue what to do. You have to find your children and your grandchildren. That is not the case. What sort of things have you heard people talk about when you're talking with them about using social media to engage? Is there some resistance? Is there some people who think it's the Holy Grail? What are you hearing people talk about? I think it's a great thing to devote a whole issue to. Todd: Let me touch real quickly on something you said, and then I will come back to the questions themselves. You talked about isolation. That is a very big reality because it wasn't until social media really crept up that we had this acronym FOMO: Fear of Missing Out. I think what it does is it drives us deeper into that sense of isolation because we don't feel like we're part of something, so we withdraw even more. Social media is amoral. It's not moral or immoral. It's amoral. It's a tool. It's a medium. It's a channel. Yes. The question is how do we use this? That's really important. Yours, what kind of feedback are we hearing? In smaller, more traditional nonprofits that typically are led by older executives, there is a fear. How do I do it? How do I engage? What kinds of media do I put out there? Do I do it for my personal social media channels? I might have Facebook. Do I post about the organization on my personal page? Do I do it in the groups? How do I build a following? All of those are big questions. It's not an easy thing. There is not really a one-size-fits-all response to that. One thing that is important—and I know Hugh has done a masterful job in building that social media following. Hugh created a platform where he said I am going to focus on leadership. I am going to focus on how we empower people around leadership. When you see his messages, they are consistent. He is consistently posting about leadership and organizations, and he has built a following around a theme. In your nonprofit, that is a key thing for you. You have to own the space that you are in. You have to be mindful. It's quick and easy to go chase the shiny object. We have talked about chasing money in nonprofits before. That is something that gets a lot of nonprofits off track. They go and chase money. The same thing is true with social media about chasing the shiny object. Not everybody has to have a perspective on every issue that comes up. When LeBron went to Miami, your nonprofit didn't have to talk about LeBron going to Miami unless LeBron was the spokesperson for you in Cleveland. Then you might have something to say. It's being mindful about putting your blinders on when you need to and knowing what you are good at and what you should be talking about. That is a big thing. Your following will come out when you are consistent in what you are talking about, when you have a definitive framing to your social media messaging. We live in a world where the social media algorithms are consistently changing. It used to be photos, and now it is video. Video is the hot piece. Having opportunities. Here we are live on Facebook right? That is a really important thing. Whether it's video chats or small snippets, you want to be able to create bite-size visual media because it is attractive. It will engage more people. It is more likely to be seen by folks than I ate nachos for dinner last night. Nobody really cares, unless you have a great picture of your artisan nachos with your tofu on it or whatever. Then people might care. But I think that is to make sure that when you do post something, you're harnessing all that is available to you. That is another piece. We will talk about it in the social media issue of the magazine. Something a lot of people don't realize is there are very tangible ways for you and your nonprofit to be able to have good visuals. I know Hugh is an Apple guy. Apple made it very available for people to cut and edit simple but good, clean video. You have those more recently in a design perspective. I am blanking on the name here. Canva.com is an organization that came out. One of the pieces they wanted to promote was the idea that not everybody is a graphic designer and can afford a graphic designer, but everybody needs good design. They created a very simple free platform or premium platform where anybody can go in and create good design to be able to make sure that is consistent with their organization in the top-notch perspective. Hugh: That's great. We are doing the wrap here. We have had a really good session, Todd. Thank you for watching this with your vision that is continuing. I hope we continue to execute it faithfully. As you are sitting in this academic seat, you are still editor at this magazine and shaping the editorial policy in a really helpful way. Are there some points you want to leave people with before we end this information session? I want to encourage people to go to nonprofitperformance.org and at least click on the virtual edition. 15,000 people read it every month. It's a Flip file. Go in there and sign in. You can read the archive editions, and you can subscribe and buy issues. It's very reasonable. If a nonprofit executive or pastor were to get issues for themselves and their whole board, then some people are on the same page, and it gives you something tangible to talk about, especially the board issue. Todd, as we are exiting and wrapping up on this interview, what are some things you want to leave people with? Todd: Hugh, when you go back to the initial vision, it's the idea. How do we make impact in our communities? We really wanted to do that. When you talk about some of the download numbers for the magazine and the podcast and the video series, we started at zero. We started without subscribers. We started without followers. We started without any of that. If we can do it, you can, too. It's really important to make sure you have a good message, that you have something people want to listen to, to follow, to read. But you can do it. You can make great impact in your community. You can do great things. You can build it if you want a platform. The key is that you just have to continue. What ends up happening is we see people in our community who start something and they're not resilient enough when the challenges happen. Hugh, you know. Our core team that we started with, we have all gone through significant challenges, life changes, but the key is to continue through it and continue to work together. Truthfully, if you don't like the people you're working with, you probably won't continue. We have had a great group of people, both our core team and folks who have come around us and great new faces like Russell who are able to invigorate and continue to move things forward. I think that's really important for any organization. Make sure that you continue to invite new people in as you continue to hone what your message is. Have fun. Life is too short not to enjoy what you're doing. Hugh: Good, wise words. Russell, you can do it. We have fun. Todd, thanks to you. Thank you so much. Todd: Thank you so much. 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PART 2 There were few theatrically released concert films in the 1980s, and none that were embraced like U2’s “Rattle and Hum”. While watching the trailer in the theater, I got the same goose bumps Todd Greer recalls and had to see it upon release. It was pure bliss, even to this heavy metal lovin’ teenager. This film delivers both a visual and musical punch with a lot of heart. At times angry, but also with a hopeful tone, as you watch you feel like you are a part of their movement. MTV had made us aware of U2. Now, only two years removed from their groundbreaking Live Aid performance, they peeled back the surface. This revealed how four guys from Ireland became one political voice, preaching against social injustice and for change. To this day, U2 remains purposely focused. Todd Greer came to us through Chuck Oney. Their musical ensemble caught my attention, and when Todd released “Kaleidoscope Mind” after forming tOd and the BAD IDEAS, I certainly noticed. Moving Music has always been about collaboration and great discussion. Once again, I am blown away by the generosity of the person sitting in the chair across from me. Todd reveals his quest for purpose and the drive to move forward in music. Please join us for this two part verbal jam session as we dive into the movie that moved him, U2’s “Rattle and Hum”. TC

PART 1 There were few theatrically released concert films in the 1980s, and none that were embraced like U2’s “Rattle and Hum”. While watching the trailer in the theater, I got the same goose bumps Todd Greer recalls and had to see it upon release. It was pure bliss, even to this heavy metal lovin’ teenager. This film delivers both a visual and musical punch with a lot of heart. At times angry, but also with a hopeful tone, as you watch you feel like you are a part of their movement. MTV had made us aware of U2. Now, only two years removed from their groundbreaking Live Aid performance, they peeled back the surface. This revealed how four guys from Ireland became one political voice, preaching against social injustice and for change. To this day, U2 remains purposely focused. Todd Greer came to us through Chuck Oney. Their musical ensemble caught my attention, and when Todd released “Kaleidoscope Mind” after forming tOd and the BAD IDEAS, I certainly noticed. Moving Music has always been about collaboration and great discussion. Once again, I am blown away by the generosity of the person sitting in the chair across from me. Todd reveals his quest for purpose and the drive to move forward in music. Please join us for this two part verbal jam session as we dive into the movie that moved him, U2’s “Rattle and Hum”. TC

Highlighting the best ideas from the best sessions is our intention. Hugh Ballou and Russell Dennis point to interviews for more listening and more personal growth. Here's the Transcript   NPE Hugh & Russell Hugh Ballou: Greetings, it's an episode of the Nonprofit Exchange that is the Hugh and Russell show. Russell David Dennis and Hugh McPherson Ballou, we are going to chat today about some of the great things that we've heard in the past podcasts. We create a lot of content, and it's time to reflect on that. Russell, how are you doing today? Russell Dennis: It is a beautiful day here in Denver, Colorado. It did snow a little bit yesterday. Now it's gone back to Denver-type weather, at least for the front range here. There is a beautiful cap on the mountains that you can see miles and miles coming in. Life is good. Hugh: Your life is always good. You make it that way. When I lived in Colorado, they had a saying: If you don't like the weather, just wait five minutes. Russell: It does change frequently. We are expecting some pretty mild weather for this time of year. But the skiers are happy. We got a natural cap. The snow machines are going. Let the skiing begin. It will continue through May. Hugh: Through May. Wow. So we are live on Facebook. We record our podcasts as a live video feed, so anybody who is listening to the Nonprofit Exchange podcast, feel free to join us on Facebook live on Tuesdays at 2:00 Eastern Time. You go to thenonprofitexchange.org, and it will lead you there. We post to the past sessions and create new sessions every Tuesday. Russell, I find that when we are doing it live that we have unexpected participants that join us on Facebook. I also find that there is an energy with creating that live event. What is your experience with this? Russell: I have had people come in and share their experience because it enhances the program. It always helps to have people ask questions that are burning in their minds. One of the things to consider because as nonprofit leaders, you're running an enterprise. It's a business like a lot of others. The big difference is the tax status. There are problems with people and business and just operating that can be solved and leadership issues. These are things that people want to talk about. I like to bring people things that they want to hear about. I love when people ask questions because it gives us points for discussion. We find out what sort of things are important to you out there, and that is what matters to us. Hugh: I was with both Burt Oliva and David Dunworth two weeks ago tomorrow down in Florida, and we managed to dodge the weather and do some meaningful things in between the storms. As I spend time with both of those gentlemen who are both watching right now, I really appreciate the level of skill they have and the level of expertise. David Dunworth has been on this podcast. I've talked to Burt, and he and his team are going to be part of this interview process next month. Their calendar is pretty full. I look forward to having them. The fact that you are connected to them is also great. We have been doing this Nonprofit Exchange. Our magazine editor, Todd Greer, Dr. Greer is an organizational psychologist. He has got a degree in organizational leadership… *audio interruption, clearly a network issue* Russell: Can you hear me, Hugh? Can you hear me okay? Hugh: Did I lose you and you're back? Russell: I lost you for a brief- Hugh: Did you go away? Did you hear what I just said? Russell: Very little of that. We had a little bit of a freeze there momentarily. Hugh: High tech is really great when it works. When high tech works, it's great. When it doesn't work, it really stinks. What I was talking about the history of this podcast, and it starts as a video and then goes into the audio on Nonprofit Exchange podcast, which you can find on iTunes and Stitcher and most every platform. The Nonprofit Exchange. Russ, you have showed up faithfully as unofficial co-host, but you are trying to get out of it now. You are part of this process. How long have we been doing this together? Has it been a year? *more technical difficulties* Russell: We started fairly early in the year on a consistent basis. I popped in and out on some broadcasts in late 2016, but I've been consistent since probably about February. We've been co-piloting during the week. One of the things that has been pointed out because we've had people that have come in and talked about the use of technology for nonprofits and using it well. Technology is something that can enhance what we're doing, but it's not primarily what we're doing. It's important to use it well as a nonprofit leader not to be afraid of it. Technology can do a lot of things for you particularly when it comes to getting your message out. *more technical difficulties* I have been talking about technology and how we can leverage it to make it work. It's not a magic bullet, but it's something that can afford nonprofits the opportunity to get their organizations out in front of other people, whether it's through Facebook or using Google. Google has put millions and millions of dollars into the nonprofit arena by offering grants to nonprofits to actually get their message out there. *more technical difficulties* You might be having a bandwidth thing going on there. Hang in there. I don't know if you have some apps open that you might be able to close. Hugh: I was going to blame it on you. I'm hoping that audio continued and I didn't hear anything, but it could have been my own frailty here. I did change devices so I am on a different router now. Russell: It seems to have cleared the problem up. I was talking about technology because that is so important for everything. One of the things that I was talking about getting messages out there, but it can be used to reach your audience. You can actually do a little bit more in terms of determining who the people are that are listening to you. You can get your message out in more cost-effective ways than you were ever able to do before. Like anything else, the thing that has been the overarching message that our guests have put out as far as using technology and social media and connecting with people is it's all about relationships and building strong relationships with people you serve and those that you serve with. Technology is not a substitute for that, but it's a way to factually extend that reach in a cost-effective manner. Hugh: Absolutely. Russ, let's talk about some impressions from- Tell me again when you and I started doing this together. Russell: I think we started moving consistently in February because I pop in and out in 2016. But I've started showing up consistently. We have been here. I have been on just about every broadcast. I have had the honor and privilege of standing in a few times for you when you had other things that you had to get done. It's been beautiful. It's been a great thing for me. I have done other broadcasting, too. I'd like this talk show hosting. I think it suits me. Hugh: You do it very well, and you've had me as a guest on your show. You know we have learned, in our association with our group called CEO Space, the power of cooperation, and we have taken it to the collaborative level. There is plenty of room for everybody to play because it's a big playing field, and we bring it to a new paradigm. Let's look over some of the past podcasts. We have had the pleasure of interviewing some really amazing people. I don't know about you, but I learn from every single one of them. As a matter of fact, every time we talk, I learn something from you. You have some incredible sound bites. You are very well-read. You continue working on self. I remember Jim Rohn would commonly say in his speeches, “Work on yourself harder than you work on your business.” That is my sense of Russell Dennis. You are always improving your own self. You have done many worthy things in your career. What you are doing is bringing all that value to people who need it. Thank you for being here, and thank you for sharing your wisdom. Let's collaborate on thinking about the wisdom we've gathered from some of these people we have interviewed recently. What are some of the messages that jump out to you from some of those great interviews we have had? Russell: Here's the panel discussion that we had that really sticks in my mind. Several weeks ago, we were talking about diversity. This is a discussion that I've been having with people all over the place. In fact, I had a discussion with one of my classmates from the Sponsorship Boot Camp around diversity. This lady is a naval officer. She was a pilot, so she experienced some interesting reactions from her fellow naval pilots. It's pretty much a boys' club. When we get into diversity, we can get stuck on race, but there's not just race. There is age, gender, and socioeconomic status, which is really critical. Some of the things that I've read in the nonprofit press show a lack of diversity in our nonprofit boardrooms. That has an impact when you don't have a diversity of leadership or a diversity of thinking styles. You're leaving a lot on the table, and that's been uppermost in my mind lately as far as some of our discussions go. Hugh: Well, that's Dr. Thyonne Gordon you're referring to. The more I talk to her, the more I appreciate the depth of her wisdom and character. The context behind both her and Mr. William Lewis, they are both doctors and very skilled people. I was the white guy on the call, but it wasn't, as you have carefully placed, about race. We think it's about race. That's a factor. But how about boomers and millennials? How do we get along? We don't, because we don't understand each other. The gender, you talked about. The sexual preference, what is your lifestyle? Did you grow up in the ghetto? There is so many dynamics. When I participated years ago in working with a company in Germany that holds a competitive event called the World Choir Games, there were 400 choirs that show up from 100 countries. That is diversity. That is amazing diversity. People come together around a common thread, which is music, excellence in music. There is community that happens, not because you force it to happen, but because we all celebrate our diversity and celebrate the commonality that is music. I think we forget to think about the things we have in common. We think about what we have that is different rather than what we have in common. Russ, even within a white church that has mostly people from one generation and one economic sector, there are diverse opinions, but they are trapped in this container, not being able to get outside their point of view. Somebody from outside to ask questions: What about this? It opens up the conversation. We do get closed in without thinking about possibilities. We just think about what we have always done. What I have gained out of that particular interview, which was the brilliance of two of our guests, is there are some things we can think about. Here are some other values that we could bring. Is it about diversity, or is it about inclusion? Is it about bringing creative energy into your organization? That call was not only about race; it was about a whole plethora of other really powerful things. Am I remembering some of the same things you are? Russell: Yes, that's true. That is what I took away. Here is where you have these things potentially show up in a bad way, if you don't have that diversity. It's understanding the populations that you serve. A lot of the populations look like everybody else, but some of them don't. If you're running a nonprofit and you're trying to serve a population that you don't have a solid connection with, it could reduce your effectiveness and your efficiency in doing that. There are all sorts of problems and other articles. I would love to bring those up. We discussed maybe doing another panel, and I have talked to a couple of people who would be good for that once we decide we want to do another one. Hugh: Let's spin on that a minute. If you're listening to this podcast and diversity, inclusion, and building creativity on your board and your culture generally, if that is a topic of interest for you, please go to the podcast and do some comments. It is on the SynerVision website, and there is a place for comments. We very much welcome comments. If you are really into growing the culture in a creative way, I don't think you can do without some diversity. What do you think, Russ? Russell: You've gotta have it. That has been recognized by a lot of the new research that is out there. I read in the Chronicle of Philanthropy some of their findings. Those ads are out there. It's really important. People are finding that this is critical. The Denver Foundation, right here where I work, they did an inclusion project and put quite a bit of money and research into it several years ago to actually tackle that problem. They have great material on their website, denverfoundation.org. They actually put some of the questions that they ask with limited information on some of the participants and some of the types of questions that they ask. They will be happy to talk with you about it if you want more information. Hugh: Thank you for bringing this up. This is a really important topic. I think there should be a series of group discussions on this topic because it is such a big topic. It is such an important topic. When we had that call and I did a debriefing for the two guests, they both said there is a lot more content and sub-themes. We introduced so many themes in that call. What I think you ought to do is challenge me, or challenge each other, to put a series of these conversations together. We might have to do it not at this time, but do it at this time and broadcast it to be able to accommodate the variety of schedules. I want Wornie Reed, the race professor at Virginia Tech, on the call, and Andy Morikawa, my original founding board member, who have really good wisdom on boards and diversity. There are some others that you and I have talked about. I think there are lots of subthemes for us to work through and develop. What do you think of us having a series of conversations about that topic? Russell: I'd love to do that. As a matter of fact, I have a preliminary agreement. I've got Andie Sue Phillips who will be appearing on the Nonprofit Culture Success show on November 1 at 4 pm EST. She and I are going to be talking about diversity. We are both veterans. She is very interested in coming on and doing the panel and talking. She has experienced this, and she has actually put together a very interesting program that a number of major businesses are looking at on diversity. They found her and approached her on the subject. I'm excited about that conversation that we'll have coming up where she can talk about some of those tools. And we have a number of things. I think you could spend an hour on gender on one program. You could spend an hour on age, particularly the disconnect between boomers like ourselves and millennials. It's really a communication thing. A good friend of mine, Brooke Chestnut, who I went through the Colorado Speakers Academy with, has put some programs together to help organizations that are looking to recruit millennials actually get that done. He put together an interesting concept that he called reverse mentoring. I think it's about time for me to give young Mr. Chestnut a call. Hugh: He could be one of those panelists, couldn't he? Russell: Very easily. That is a piece of his work. Another good friend in the area, Russ Manery, does a lot of work around making sure you hire the right people. He is masterful at that. He was on my show a few weeks back. You got the conversation around age. You got a conversation around gender. Her being a veteran and me being a veteran, that opens up all sorts of doors for this conversation, and I'm looking forward to that. Hugh: Me, too. Russell: There is a lot to unpack there. Then of course there is socioeconomic status. People who actually are in need of a lot of the services that nonprofits provide. A big mistake I've seen people make over the years is that they have got wonderful ideas and they want to help, but somewhere along the way, they neglected to talk to the people that they are actually putting the program together for. Lo and behold, they had everything to sign, they had it funded, they built it, and nobody came. It's really important to talk to these folks and find out how they want to be helped because if they're accessing different services, they don't know where to buy them so to speak. They are experiencing these gaps, and there is something that falls outside the purview of the guidelines. They are actually struggling to fill all the needs. This happens with everything, especially with school. Students can go out and get scholarships and not be able to take advantage of them because of the hidden costs like the fees, the flights, and the textbooks. There are just things that show up that nobody accounts for. Thandie Caraway was on the Nonprofit Culture Success show last week. I have to put that replay up. Hugh: People will be listening to this way after the dates you gave, so let's give a link so people can find that. Russell: I will. Hugh: What is that link? Russell: For the Nonprofit Culture Success show, it's on Facebook. I have that every week. It's a webinar similar to this broadcast. I deliver it the exact same way. If you look up NP Culture Success on Facebook, you will be connected there. Hugh: NP, meaning Nonprofit, Culture of Success. That is a really good program. You interviewed me a few weeks ago. I have been in a thread with some really fine folks. Russell, when you were talking about programs they hadn't checked out, it reminds me of a Robert Frost poem: “We sit in a circle and suppose/the secret sits in the center and knows.” Does that resonate at all? Russell: That's pretty good stuff. David weighed in and said there is a lot we could talk about where diversity is concerned. These types of discussions are what I really love to see. I would love to have more people weigh in. You want to know what people are interested in and struggling with because that is another way we can add value. Hugh: I'm going to ask David Dunworth what some of those topics are that come to his mind. He said there are lots of topics that would enhance the facets of the show. Russell, we've been looking at some of the past podcasts. Last week we had our friend Joe White who had an amazing presentation on goals. I teach goals. I said in that show that Joe did that module in my workshop. You have done your module twice. Everybody I've had present a module does a far better job than I do. Joe came in and presented goals, and it was resonant with what we have defined in SynerVision. He did a stunning job of that. He talked about his GPS system for setting goals, which I found to be very powerful. The Covey principle, sharpen the saw, comes to mind with people like that. We are always working on our tools, sharpening the saw so we can be better. You and I are no spring chickens. We have learned a lot of stuff; we have a lot of stuff. But we are not sitting on our laurels. We are growing our own skill and being able to share the wisdom and experience and skills we have learned over the years. Do you remember that conversation with Joe? Does anything come to mind from that for you? Russell: The thing I loved about his GPS system is that it is incredibly powerful. There is a lot of power in it. The power comes from the simplicity that he rolls it out there with. Almost everybody that drives can relate to a GPS. It makes me wonder how we ever got anywhere without them. They have become so widespread that we are used to them. The power is the focus that comes from using a simple system, is what comes through. I think that any good system is easy to access, easy to understand, and easy to use. That comes from our friend Brendan Bouchard; that is not one of my originals. But it makes perfect sense because a lot of people in the industry, and I have had that conversation with him and other people in the personal development industry: maybe two or three out of every hundred that actually pick up a system implement it. This is where I want to help people get beyond that. If there is something that people can use in simple steps, they are going to be more likely to apply it. It's not going to be overwhelming. That was Joe's GPS system. It is a textbook example of that principle. Hugh: He did a very good job of explaining it and laying it out. And he had a free gift. We don't number the episodes of Nonprofit Exchange. If you find the one on Joe White setting powerful goals, that is a good one. We are going to expand some other topics coming up. David Dunworth had filled in some. One was outsourcing and its challenges because of preconceived notions. I find a lot of charities and churches and synagogues say we don't have time to do all these things, yet they want to hire people. You could outsource some of these things if you had sufficient time to develop your plan and methodology so you could hand it off. One of the basic tenets of transformational leadership is being able to take things off your plate and empower some other people to do. You and I have talked about the burnout rate with nonprofit leaders, and it is unusually high. Part of it is we get stuck as leaders doing too much, and then we are not effective as we could be because we have too much on our plate. One of them is outsourcing. We think giving things to other people is a weakness in leadership when really it is just the opposite. Some other topics that he threw on the table were gender bias, the glass ceiling, young versus old, the color barrier, and the multi-culture world is here. Those are some of the topics. I think besides being the glass ceiling, and that is commonly used with women who are limited- I find there is a lot more opportunity for growth and taking charge for women in the nonprofit sector because they have a unique ability to engage people and bring in some fresh ideas. A lot of the old white guys like me get stale. There is a freshness in them, especially the woman leaders of any race or age. I think there is a great opportunity. The ceiling that John Maxwell talks about is the lid. The lid is our ability to lead the organization. That is the leadership issue, not a diversity issue. But it also could be a diversity issue if we had somebody that brought different skills. Are we going to put a lid on them? Many times, we have this scarcity thinking. It's not just the lid that Maxwell talks about. His framing is that the organization cannot develop any further than the leaders' ability to lead it, so there is the law of the lid. Sometimes, it's not the leader's fault; the organization and the culture puts a lid on that leader. “No, we don't do it that way here.” You and I have seen circumstances where that happens. We have been in groups where we have participated mutually. Talk about that a minute. The framing of leadership and the ability of the board to let the leader lead, if they show some competence. What are some things you have seen? Russell: I'm working with the group now that has actually got good intent. It's a new organization. They asked me to serve on their board. There have been some struggles with understanding what it is that they want. That speaks to the outsourcing that David was talking about. You have to understand what it is that you want in order to be a good customer. That takes some definition. A lot of social profit leaders are new to doing what they're doing from a social profit realm, or they are taking on a big challenge. There could actually be some fear around whether some things are going to work. They are trying new things. They are trying things outside of their comfort zone. Those are things that can hold folks back. It's really expanding the thinking outside of the old traditional limited realms. Good leaders build on the leaders around them. There is no better way to look good than to have a great team of leaders around you because they are actually doing the stuff on the ground. If you are the leader providing direction, these folks actually make you look good. It's really when you bring people onto a board or you are a board and you bring somebody to lead your organization, you are putting them in a position of trust. There is a lot that you are expecting them to do. If you don't give them the tools or the autonomy to actually get things done, to leverage that creativity, you are going to have a little bit of trouble. One of the things my good friend Doug Crude talks about is the brilliance of the team. You have a lot of brilliance under your roof, a lot of people that are dedicated and motivated. But if you suppress that talent and you don't let them shine the way they want to shine, they will walk away. I don't think that it's fully a pay issue; it's really an issue of am I making a difference here? This is really important for millennials. They want to do work that matters. They don't want to be micro-managed. Nobody wants to be micro-managed. It's having that trust for your team and not being afraid to make mistakes that will propel you forward. Those are several things that transformational leaders do. Hugh: Absolutely. I am looking over some of the recent podcasts. We do develop a transcript from the interviews and put it in the Nonprofit Exchange podcast. Going back a while, you and I did a podcast on the five top things that block a leader's success. That one had a lot of plays; it was in April. There was also an interview we did with Dr. David Gruder, our friend who is an organizational developmental psychologist. It was about the people who are controlling the board with their anger. There were some things he gave us that were really helpful. We have seen lots of boards where they say they can't do something because it will upset so-and-so. So we tiptoe around the topic, and they avoid dealing with it head-on. What I heard with that and some other of my studies is when you have conflict, you move toward it and remain calm and address the facts very directly. We tend to avoid in the effort to be nice. When we are trying to be nice to one person, like on a board, then we are devaluing every other person because we have let that person take us hostage. That was the interview with Dr. Gruder, which was before our discussion on those five things. That one spoke to me especially in a special way because I see that kind of thing happening an awful lot. That was back in February, believe it or not. Russell: I think I've got that- We did that in June, I believe. I believe the February discussion was the discussion on the relationship that we have with money. Hugh: The shadow- you're right. Russell: That particular program, he talked about the strong personalities on the board. If one person dominates a lot of the conversations, he talked about how they go about really getting their way and actually short-circuiting any conversation that people have. That is just not a good thing. As a matter of fact, what I'm going to do is drop that into the chat box. That's a good one to go back and listen to if you have a strong personality that you are concerned about. Dr. Gordon did a podcast that addressed boards, too. Hers was also in June or somewhere close by. That one was April 11. That was about empowering your board and structuring a good board. I was actually absent that week that you and Dr. Gordon talked about boards. What were some of the things that she brought up? Hugh: There were a number of things. But it was empowering the board by asking them to do things. Going back to David Gruder's piece, we let other people's emotions control us. We have our own scripts that sometimes are not true. There was some synergy in the two presentations with Dr. Gruder and Dr. Gordon. She encouraged us to step up and ask board members to contribute money, time, and talent, all three. We tend to overcompensate by saying, “I'll do it for them; they're busy,” when that's not what they want. What they want is meaningful contribution. They are on the board because they want to give their skillset. That doesn't mean they are going to work every day for you, but it does mean they want to do something that is meaningful and see an impact from the organization. Her presentation is very valuable, and it's one of the most listened-to episodes on the podcast over the last three years. Dr. Thyonne Gordon, you said it was in April. That is a very popular podcast. That is a very important podcast. It's on a topic that I think a lot of boards struggle with. David Gruder talked about the shadow in February, but he talked about the anger specifically, how people control boards with their anger. That is something that we tend to cave into but is not very helpful. We are talking about David Dunworth who is watching us on Facebook at the moment. He talked about the brand and connecting it to the board. The board has impact on the brand. The board represents our brand. Your employees represent the brand. You represent the brand. We tend to think, Oh I'm a nonprofit; I don't have a brand. It's important that you have a brand identity, a brand promise. It's important that you know what your brand is, and everybody supports that brand. David has lots of skills. His particular channel that day was talking about your brand and what I remember coming out of that is how people behave around that brand. Do you have some thoughts around David and what he shared? Russell: It addressed leadership. His key message was that leaders are actually the brand, and they present the brand they build that once they build that, they safeguard it. They provide the direction and make sure. The brand is really what you're all about. A lot of times, the word “brand” will bring up thoughts around some sort of packaging or snazzy jingle. We think about that sort of thing. We think about it in terms of marketing, but a brand is really a statement about who you are and everything that you do flows out of that. David was talking eloquently about the leader's responsibility to make sure you have all the integrity and the effectiveness around that brand. You build on that, and it guides what you do. Leaders actually reflect that brand that your nonprofit is out there. That is a very good podcast. I did put that in the chat, too. Those will be in the notes for folks that missed those particular ones. I drop those in the notes because they are great to go back to. I tend to make a list and go out and grab all of these links as they go up so that I could look at them because there is so much that we learn from those that you can't absorb it all. I have to go back and listen to them again and again. That is the beauty of the Internet. We archive these videos, and they are there for our review. The podcasts are even better because you can listen to those on the fly. I put them on my iPod, and I can plug my iPod in the car and get it to go. You don't even have to fight with CDs anymore. There is technology again, and it is beautiful when it works, which is most of the time. Hugh: It is. “The Seven Essential Skills for Nonprofit Leadership Success,” that is one that you and I did. We went around that number seven because you had found seven to be a powerful number. The podcast that Todd Greer did years ago was on community. That is by far the most listened-to episode. It was relaunched on August 11 as an archive replay. The other one is “Drucker Challenge: Managing Oneself in the Digital Age.” That was Frances Hesselbein and her leadership institute. She is an amazing person who is much older than you and I but shows up to work because she has a passion for creating value in people's lives. She is very clear on who she is and what she offers. The other one I wanted to lift up—We are coming close to our time. I like not to go over too much—is the due diligence one with Thomas Moviel. You interviewed Thomas. That was one of the times you got to do an interview and didn't have the burden of Hugh Ballou getting in your way. Before you launch an idea, can you do some due diligence? Does the world need your nonprofit? I thought that was relevant. I met him at a conference and invited him in because- You may have more relevant statistics than this, but my memory is that half of the nonprofits that are formed every year close. They are not able to fully achieve their mission at any level. That might partly be because the world didn't need your idea. You go to all the trouble of launching something before you did a check-up to see if it's really needed. Do you remember that interview you did with Thomas? Russell: Yes, it was quite a while ago. One of the things that David pointed out is that the brand philosophy and its tenets have to be present throughout the whole organization, not just with the leadership. Thomas and I talked about some of that identity, but what we were really talking about was making sure that you understand what it is that you do and what you do differently. The concept behind “Does the world need your nonprofit?” is understanding clearly what the problems that you solve are and focusing on things that you really do well. That was a big key takeaway that a lot of folks just don't do that as well as they could. So we talked a little bit about some tools for doing that, but most of the emphasis was on the importance of doing that, whether it's with a program or specific people that you go to attract to your organization. It's really having that focus on the people that you're serving. Hugh: Amen. That was a really good interview. I saw him on Saturday and thanked him for that. I just had a hunch that would be something valuable. It's been one of the most listened-to episodes. As we do a wrap here, Russell, I thought it would be good for us to pause in our pretty active schedule of interviewing thought leaders and for you and I to reflect on some of the lessons and help people think about what they need next. As I am looking over the list since you and I have been doing this, there are a number of very powerful interviews that have of course the transcription there, but they have things that could be implemented. The David Corbin interview about brand slaughter, which is the title of his book. The Penny Zenker interview about how to gain control over your life. It's about that time robber. George Fraser talked about building a legacy. He has the largest African-American network in the world and is very humble about it. Don Green talked about the Napoleon Hill Foundation. He is going to contribute for the magazine about boards. That board uses business principles to support that nonprofit. Our friend Shannon Gronich did getting unlimited publicity. There is a whole methodology under that, which she is so brilliant about. Russell, as we draw to a close, I customarily ask our guests to think about what they want to leave people with. Maybe you and I could take a turn doing that. What is your thought that from all the wisdom that we've ben able to partake in, what would you say to people listening to this podcast that you would wish they could do with some of this wisdom? Russell: I would say refer back to it regularly. Never stop looking for ways to do what you do better. Always work from your strengths as much as possible. Find partners and other people to collaborate with so that you can cover those areas that you don't necessarily do well because you are going to be much more effective just living it, working in your genius, and trusting that to make an impact than trying to create a new genius for yourself. Do what you do. Do your thing. That is really the most important thing: work from those strengths, and always be learning. Always keep learning. Always continue to look for opportunities to collaborate. Learning is a never-ending process. Don' be afraid to try new things. If you are feeling stuck, stop and think about some of the people that you already have in your payroll or who are volunteering or who are writing your checks. It won't hurt to ask your donors for ideas. Ask them what they'd like to see. It's about getting people more and more engaged with what you're doing and letting them know that what they're contributing, whether it's time, treasure, talent, or all three, how important that is. Let them know what's possible through that regularly. Hugh: Russ, that is really great. You took the words out of my mouth. I find people say, “I don't have time to listen to podcasts.” Do you ever drive in your car anywhere? I never have anything but public radio and my podcasts, and I learn every time I listen to my podcast. What I appreciate about Russell David Dennis is that you are always working on your skill. You have a book you're working on. What you pointed out is that just because you listened to it or read it doesn't mean you know it all. What I have learned from our friend Ken Courtright is he goes back and reads great books again with a different colored highlighter. He finds that when he goes back and highlights passages that stand out to him, they are different than the ones he highlighted the first time. Either you didn't see it or understand it, or you weren't ready to learn it yet. I applaud what you said. That is a very good reminder for me. Just because you read it, just because you listened to it doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to it again because you are ready to learn the next thing. Russell, I'm grateful for you. Thank you for being on this series of podcasts. I would like to encourage people to go back and listen to this library of wonderful resources that we have as a gift for you. Please share your comments and the podcast on social media or on your email because we want people to listen to them. They are free. This is our gift to you. Russell, thank you for today. I am grateful to you, sir. Russell: It's very good. If folks don't already, keep going back to the SynerVision page, the Nonprofit Culture Success page on Facebook, and the Nonprofit Exchange Channel. Make sure you subscribe to that on YouTube. Check back regularly. Go in the comment areas and let us know what you think and what you want to hear about because we are here to serve you and help you make more impact in your communities. Hugh: Good words, Russell. Thank you so much. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Read the Transcript Todd Greer: Good afternoon, and welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange Leadership Tools and Strategies. As always, I am your host, Todd Greer, Executive Director of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. Today, I come to you with a slightly different hat. Today, the hat I am wearing is the role of Managing Editor of Nonprofit Performance Magazine. Today, for the Nonprofit Exchange, I want to share with you a little bit about our upcoming issue for the magazine. Our September issue is just a few weeks away, and we are getting ready to go to the designer and to press. I wanted to share with you a little bit of insight. Before we do that, let's remind you about a couple things. If you ever want to join the community and be a part of these discussions, thinking about what it looks like to serve in the social benefit sector, what does it look like to be able to engage and grow your nonprofit, we invite you to come and join us. You can find us at synervisionleadership.org, and you can feel free to join the community at /register. It's a great opportunity for you to think about other people in your sector who are asking the same types of questions as you, to be able to draw closer to ask tough questions, to share your practices that have worked for you, and to think about new and innovative solutions to problems that are facing your community. We also want to remind you about our magazine, which is what we are going to be talking about today. The June issue of our magazine was focused on giving for impact. I think it's a really important thing for people to jump in to think about high-quality information and content that we share with you every quarter. You can find that through our website at synervisionleadership.org. All you have to do is look for the Magazine button, and you will be able to access it right there. Also, if you have missed any old episodes of the Nonprofit Exchange, the easiest way to find those is either by going to the iTunes Store and searching for the Nonprofit Exchange, or by simply going to hangouts.synervisionleadership.org. Those are all there. They are accessible for you, and they are free and easy. Whether you are downloading or watching, you can have access to some great thought leaders from across the country as they share with you on really important topics affecting the nonprofit landscape. Today, as we said, we want to think of our community. It's a subject that is really deep and important for the SynerVision Leadership Foundation. We have had a lot of blog posts about community. We have had a lot of conversations with nonprofit leaders from academics and practitioners across the globe who are talking about community. For us this time, it's a little bit special. Our September issue is focusing on embracing your community. This is where it really started for us. For us, we came across a co-authored report by Commongood Careers and Level Playing Field Institute. That was called “The Voice of Nonprofit Talent.” It was really focused on the perceptions of diversity in the workplace. It was a study that was published a couple of years ago, but when we saw it in early 2015, it started to prompt some questions for us, as we thought about what is community and how do we think about it. We have talked a lot about community-building, asking questions about what it means for us as we think about communities to be built. What does it mean for us to think about communities as they remain intact and grow? A lot of times, we throw out conversation points like we do community management or we do community building. Those are pieces of the lexicon that are just buzzwords that we use now. We wanted to think about what is community. What does it look like? Peter Block, in his book aptly titled Community, he began his entire treatise with the following words. He said, “The need to create structure of belonging grows out of the isolated nature of our lives, our institutions, and our community.” As we think about community in this upcoming issue of the magazine, we want to think of this sense of membership as a way that we find identity, support, and mutual goals and drivers, but it's also a way that we find the wholeness of community. As we sit and think about our own personal experience, they are but one in the midst of a larger community. We have tried to ask some deep questions as we have thought about what community looks like and how we embrace our whole community. We are really excited about the end product that is going to be coming to you soon. We have contributions from Penny Zenker. She is an expert who has joined us on the show here. Leah Eustace, Kathleen Latosch. They are nonprofit consultants talking about diversity. Al Winseman, who has joined the show. He is a senior consultant at Gallup, talking about the uniqueness and importance of unique talents in your own organization. We have the Second Chance Organization, based out of San Diego County. It's a group that works with formerly incarcerated, formerly homeless, and formerly drug-addicted individuals and helps them on a journey from that place of hurt to sustainability. We are seeing input from the Tamerack Institute, as they think about what is community. We are talking to The Mission Continues, an organization working with veterans as they come back stateside about giving them a sense of focus as they think about volunteering in their own communities. We have input from Angela Spranger. She is a professor of management and leadership in the Newport News area. She is looking at the sense of diversity and conflict from the role of an HR practitioner. We are excited to be able to share with you insight from Stephen Lewis, the executive director of the Forum for Theological Inspiration. We are totally blown away by the opportunity to be able to think about storytelling from Miriam in the Close Up Baltimore group. They are experiencing the challenges of what happens when community is struggling in Baltimore last year. We are excited about that. We have some great insight from C Forbes Sargent III on board development and community. You will see some names you are familiar with. You will see my name. You will see Hugh Ballou, our president and founder at SynerVision. But for us, it's really digging into some important questions. We want to think about what it really means to be in community. We want to think about the uniqueness in community. Sometimes, one of the first things we think about when we talk about community is the importance of diversity and inclusion. You will see the questions that surround that. You will see some prompts. Our hope is that as you think about your own community, as you think about your own organization, you will be asking those kinds of questions that make you step to the next level. Community is so important, and diversity and inclusion are so important. It's not just from that idea of us thinking about a forced implementation. We want to think about proactive perspectives for diversity. How is it that we can embrace the whole community and think about opportunities unless we bring together the unique skills, abilities, and perspectives of the people that make up our community? Or what about for you as a nonprofit leader? When was the last time you had somebody that was part of your population that you were serving at the boardroom table to think about program development? We think it is extremely important, and it is vital to our growth and sustainability as nonprofit organizations, to make sure that the people we are serving are part of the development of service, not just the end user of this service. We want to think about what it looks like for us as we think about coming together. Are we truly embracing our community, or do we just have a specific niche that we have covered? We understand very truly that organizations cannot be a one-size-fits-all. They are not able to do everything for everyone, and I would not entice you or encourage you to do that in your nonprofit. But the question is: Are you missing out on a really important part of your community? Are you failing to give service, even in the specific type that you provide, to a specific aspect of your community? Have you thought lately about language barriers, the struggles of individuals who have English as a second language, what they are dealing with as you seek to provide them with programs, services, and resources in your community? Have you looked at what it would be for somebody who doesn't have the experience of your community as its origination point? How about somebody in an urban community who comes from a rural background, or somebody from a suburban background in an urban setting? What does it look like? Are you bringing those voices to the table? Even for you, as you think about your board, are you including on your board not only people who can give money to the organization, but also people who bring a unique perspective? Are you bringing young and old? Are you bringing racial diversity? Are you bringing diversity of perspective in job functionality? What types of things are you bringing to the table as you develop your organization? Throughout the issue, we are going to be focusing on the importance of unique strengths and abilities of diversity and inclusion because our common theme that we are working off is a quote from Doug Floyd. Doug said, “You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same notes.” That is really important in the nonprofit sector, too. We know it's very easy for us to get a very specific type of person, somebody who comes in. A lot of times, what we have found is that women are overrepresented with nonprofits as compared to men, which is surprising because we don't see that in a lot of other institutions, yet in nonprofits we do. How are we encouraging men to be a part of it, and not just in the boardroom? How are we encouraging them to be involved in various aspects of our nonprofit? We oftentimes see people later in their career who are more involved in nonprofits. But what are we doing to engage our millennial? We oftentimes see people of a higher socioeconomic status that are involved in the nonprofit sector. How are we making sure that we are embracing and encouraging the development of people that come from lower socioeconomic backgrounds? These are all really important questions for us, and they are important questions that we are going to be tackling throughout the September 2015 issue. We want you to think about how you can ask these important questions in your organization so that you can grow the impact of your nonprofit. We are very excited. We want you to join in with us. It's a very important time for us as a nonprofit sector to make sure we are leading the foray into diversity and inclusion. We cannot be at the tail end. We have to be leading the surcharge, the focus. Make sure you are there leading that charge. We encourage you to ask deep and important questions as you function in your organization. Really excited to always join you for the Nonprofit Exchange. These are simple tidbits, tips, strategies, questions, but they are not easy. I encourage you to join in as you ask these questions in your organization. Thanks again for joining us, and we will see you next week. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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