Podcasts about jenai

You can find a deeper dive into Keener's book on my Substack.Check out Jenai at her website.SummaryIn this conversation, Jon Pyle and Jenai Auman delve into the complexities of 1 Corinthians 14, particularly the controversial verses regarding women's roles in the church. They explore the cultural context of Corinth, the misinterpretations of Paul's letters, and the importance of hermeneutical principles in understanding scripture. Jenai shares her journey through different theological perspectives and emphasizes the need for a nuanced approach to biblical interpretation, advocating for the empowerment of women in ministry and the church.TakeawaysThe cultural context of Corinth was chaotic and hedonistic.Paul's letters often address specific issues rather than providing comprehensive theology.Misinterpretations of scripture can lead to harmful applications in church settings.Hermeneutical principles are essential for understanding biblical texts accurately.Women played significant roles in the early church, often as leaders and supporters.Paul's intent was to bring order to disorder, not to reinforce patriarchal structures.The importance of educating women in the church is highlighted in Paul's letters.Contextualizing scripture is crucial for modern application and understanding.The church should reflect the inclusive nature of Christ's teachings.The conversation encourages humility and openness in theological discussions. Chapters00:00 Introduction and Context of 1 Corinthians 1402:54 Personal Journeys and Interpretations of Scripture05:54 Hermeneutical Principles in Understanding Paul09:03 The Church in Corinth: Specific Contexts and Errors11:57 Interpretive Considerations for Paul's Letters15:31 Understanding the Corinthian Context16:43 Paul's Approach to Order and Disorder23:45 The Role of Women in Early Christianity29:45 Cultural Context and Interpretation35:21 The Call for Theological Humility

Today, Jenai Auman and I talk about reclaiming our agency after experiencing othering and religious trauma. Jenai Auman (she/her) is a Filipina American writer, artist, and author of Othered. She draws from her years in church leadership as well as her trauma-informed training to write on healing and holistic spiritual formation. She received her bachelor's degree in behavioral health science and is currently pursuing a master's in spiritual formation at Northeastern Seminary. You can follow Jenai on IG and Threads @jenaiauman. Grab your copy of Othered wherever you buy books! Get your Found Family Cheat Sheet and create the belonging you've always wanted. Available when you join the Found Family crew over on Substack. Support the show

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!This episode tackles the topic of being "othered" by those in church leadership, an important conversation for anyone in ministry leadership who wants to understand how to create an environment of embrace, of love, of belonging—and of being a healthy team.Jenai Auman, the author of Othered, discusses her personal experiences of being othered by church leaders, the impact it had on her, and how leaders can cultivate communities marked by shalom and hesed.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Jenai Auman shares her struggles with toxic issues and resistance at a church where she was on staff.Advocacy for personal boundaries led to Jenai being labeled as the problem and asked to leave the church.Individuals often remain in unhealthy environments due to a shallow understanding of love and belonging, influenced by past trauma.Jenai Auman identifies with domestic violence survivors in her determination to fix the system from within.Through her painful experience, Jenai Auman gained transformative wisdom and spiritual growth.Emphasizing the importance of healing, Jenai Auman aims to avoid bitterness and repeating the harm done to her.The hesed of God demonstrates loving kindness and compassion, aiming for wholeness in a fractured world.The zero-sum game misconception causes competition for comfort and peace, but God's shalom advocates for abundance.By adopting an open-handed posture towards others, we mirror God's nature, fostering inclusivity and belonging.Jenai Auman advises those feeling othered to recognize their inherent belovedness without seeking external validation.Church leaders should focus on self-reflection and compassion, avoiding defensive othering.Jenai Auman discusses the concept of shalom as a state of peace involving love, wisdom, and understanding personal stories.Naming experiences of othering is crucial for healing, enabling reconciliation and peace.Jenai Auman reflects on how her experiences with othering have shaped her understanding of mutuality and divine love.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Jenai Auman:WebsiteSubstackEmailBooks mentioned:Othered, by Jenai AumanRelated episodes:82: Narcissism and Spiritual Leadership, with Chuck DeGroat92. Against a Culture of Abuse, with Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer163. You Can't Be Found if You're Never Lost, with Steve CarterClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

“Look, Honey! Our new friends just walked in!” I'm still not exactly sure what made my friend, Jenai, think that when we first encountered one another at a local winery. Was she simply trusting her gut? Was it discernment? Was it something else? Whatever the case, I'm glad she went with it, moved a bit closer, and struck up a conversation.   That first conversation between strangers at the winery was the start of something special. Over the next few months, there were shared text messages, goofy Instagram videos, baby christenings, family dinners, couples' dates, birthday parties, prom send offs, more wineries, and even a choir rehearsal hangout as we nurtured our new friendship. We covered a lot of friendship ground in a short period of time, building trust and authentic connection each step of the way.   Making new friends and nurturing new friendships as an adult isn't easy, but it's possible and beautiful when everything aligns just so - when you meet the right person, at the right time, in the right place, and when you share a mutual openness to genuine friendship.   Join Jenai Eustache and me for a discussion about making new friends and nurturing new friendships. Next Steps: 1. Leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 2. Share THE FRIENDSHIP TOUR with a friend! 3. Keep listening! Want More Episodes About Making New Friends? Check out Episode 11 | Making New Friends - Airport Edition - featuring Kinnari Patel.    

"What does self-compassion look like for me in this moment?" Author Jenai Auman wants you to speak up. When years of spiritual abuse became clear, Jenai's decision to push back resulted in a loss of her job and spiritual community. Now, she's sharing her story and inviting you to experience belonging in your faith in a whole new way. Links + Resources from this episode: Buy a copy of Othered Learn more about Jenai's work Become a patron of Restorative Grief Learn more about Restorative Grief

Season 4: Episode 41 In this series, Mike celebrates authors. People who have a message and a story to share and who have done the hard work to get their message out there. In this episode, Mike interviews Jenai Auman, Author of ⁠Othered.⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Everything Numa⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Queer and Affirming Writer's Collective⁠ Jenai Auman Website | 
Instagram | Substack Subscribe to her Substack, and she'll send you her notes on the publishing process, how it works, and what you can expect.

Watch Randy Robison from LIFE Today Live To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.lightsource.com/donate/872/29

Watch Randy Robison from LIFE Today Live To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.lightsource.com/donate/872/29

When was the last time you had to check the "other" box during a survey? Social Identity Theory, developed by Henri Tajfel in the 1970s, explains how people define themselves through group memberships like nationality or religion. This often leads to favoritism toward one's in-group and distancing from out-groups, fostering stereotypes and discrimination. When we "Other" people—seeing them as outsiders—we lose compassion and focus on differences instead of shared humanity, reinforcing division. This issue is both psychological and spiritual. God's people are called to bless and care for the marginalized, yet misuse of power often causes harm. My guest today is Jenai Auman. Jenai, work offers hope to those who feel "Othered" by the church, reminding them that God sees and loves the outcast, even when the church fails to. Join me as I walk in Jenai's shoes. 

Whether you are in the pulpit or the pews, you might question how much of yourself is welcome in faith spaces. In this episode, Sarah chats with Jon Pyle (Community Care Pastor in San Antonio) about authenticity, vulnerability, and belonging within the church, especially when you carry questions or wounds.Find episode notes and additional essays on the communal life at Human Together . Sarah's book The Way of Belonging is available wherever you typically buy your books.Connect with Jenai on Instagram or grab a copy of her book Othered.Human Together is written and recorded by Sarah E. Westfall and is produced and edited by Ben Westfall. Theme music is “Sit with Me” by Sarah Scharbrough.

Sarah is joined by Jenai Auman to talk about our human tendency to lean toward sameness and distance ourselves from people who are different. Jenai shares her own experience of being “othered” and how placing people into us-versus-them categories can be so damaging to not only our worth but also how we relate. Together, they explore how we can move toward a wider, more welcoming way.Find episode notes and additional essays on the communal life at Human Together . Sarah's book The Way of Belonging is available wherever you typically buy your books.Connect with Jenai on Instagram or grab a copy of her book Othered.Human Together is written and recorded by Sarah E. Westfall and is produced and edited by Ben Westfall. Theme music is “Sit with Me” by Sarah Scharbrough.

Influencer Essence Jenai joined Dr. Chris Featherstone this week on UnSKripted, to talk about the circumstances surrounding her dealings with Hulk Hogan's Real American Beer brand. She spoke about how her first meeting with the WWE legend happened, how things progressed afterward, her being eventually replaced, and much more. The views expressed by Essence Jenai are her own and do not reflect the views of Dr. Chris Featherstone or Sportskeeda. #WWE #HulkHogan #EssenceJenai You can also visit our site: https://www.sportskeeda.com/wwe For more updates on Wrestling, follow us on: - Sportskeeda Wrestling: https://www.youtube.com/c/Sportskeeda... - Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/749eMMN... - Facebook:   / skwrestling   - Twitter:   / skwrestling_   - Instagram:   / skwrestling_   - TikTok:   / sportskeedawrestling  

This episode features an amazing new author, Jenai Auman having a beautiful and sacred conversation with host, Matt Mattson. Her new book, Othered is for anyone who has felt left out or pushed out of the church, Othered is your invitation to find spiritual rest and belonging in a God who loves, restores, and blesses the outcast and the marginalized. Jenai Auman draws on her experience growing up as a biracial kid in the American South as well as working within toxic ministry environments to reveal a hopeful, trauma-informed way forward. Her book illuminates how hurt and betrayal in the church are longstanding problems that God neither sanctions nor tolerates. It offers holistic responses to the grief, anger, and trauma that come with being ostracized or oppressed by the church. And it shows how God provides shelter and provision in the midst of the wilderness. Buy the book: https://www.jenaiauman.com/otheredbook Learn More about Jenai: https://www.jenaiauman.com/about-jenai Subscribe to Jenai's Substack newsletter: https://jenaiauman.substack.com/

Jenai Auman, a writer and artist, talks with Word&Way President Brian Kaylor about her new book Othered: Finding Belonging with the God Who Pursues the Hurt, Harmed, and Marginalized. She also discusses church trauma, the importance of lament, and misuse of Scripture. Note: Don't forget to subscribe to our award-winning e-newsletter A Public Witness that helps you make sense of faith, culture, and politics. And order a copy of Baptizing America: How Mainline Protestants Helped Build Christian Nationalism by Brian Kaylor and Beau Underwood. If you buy it directly from Chalice Press, they are offering 33% off the cover price when you use the promo code "BApodcast."

In this episode, Jenai Auman covers her personal experience of feeling othered within the church, and how that led her to write the book "Othered". She discusses the biblical themes of othering and marginalization, and how God pursues and cares for the marginalized. Jenai also shares insights on building healthy communities that welcome and embrace those who are different, centered on the "hesed" or steadfast love of God. We talk about the importance of self-compassion, forgiveness, and creating space for people to be in process as they journey together. Whether you've been othered or are learning how to see the marginalized, this is the episode for you.Jenai Auman is a Filipina American writer and artist. She draws from her years in church leadership as well as her trauma-informed training to write on healing, hope, and the way forward. She is passionate about providing language so readers can find a faith that frees. She received her bachelor's degree in behavioral health science and is currently pursuing a master's in spiritual formation at Northeastern Seminary. Jenai lives in Houston, Texas, with her husband, Tyler, and their sons, Quinn and Graham. Jenai's Book:OtheredJenai's Recommendation:The Lord of the Rings as read by Andy SerkisJoin Our Patreon for Early Access and More: PatreonConnect with Joshua: jjohnson@allnations.usGo to www.shiftingculturepodcast.com to interact and donate. Every donation helps to produce more podcasts for you to enjoy.Follow on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or Threads at www.facebook.com/shiftingculturepodcasthttps://www.instagram.com/shiftingculturepodcast/https://twitter.com/shiftingcultur2https://www.threads.net/@shiftingculturepodcasthttps://www.youtube.com/@shiftingculturepodcastConsider Giving to the podcast and to the ministry that my wife and I do around the world. Just click on the support the show link belowSupport the Show.

This is one of the most important and practical episodes you will likely ever listen to! As more people speak out publicly, sharing their stories of abuse in the church, more and more churches, denominations, and pastors are growing litigious, further abusing victims in civil court. If you're thinking of going public with your story, LISTEN TO THIS EPISODE! Featuring Jenai Auman, author of the recently released book Othered. We'll Cover: Question to ask yourself before going public with your storyThings to consider before going publicTips to mitigate your riskHOW to prepare IF you get suedWhat to expect from lawyersAnd More* Disclaimer: This is NOT legal Advice! * Read this article, written by Jenai, that inspired Katherine to ask her to talk about this on the podcast. This is seriously one episode Katherine has REALLY wanted to do. Jenai wrote a companion article with examples of corroboration here. Jenai Auman is a Filipina American writer, artist, and author of Othered. She draws from her experience and education to write on healing, hope, and holistic spiritual formation practices.Looking for a trauma-trained mental health professional to work with? www.traumaresolutionandrecovery.com/meet-our-practitionersSign up for Tears of Eden's newsletter to receive updates on the release of Katherine Spearing's upcoming book: www.tearsofeden.org/aboutUncertain is a podcast of Tears of Eden, a community and resource for those in the aftermath of Spiritual Abuse. If you're enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to like, subscribe, or leave a review on your favorite podcasting listening apparatus. You can support the podcast by going to TearsofEden.org/supportTo get in touch with us please email tearsofeden.org@gmail.comFollow on Instagram @uncertainpodcastTranscript is Unedited for Typos and Misspellings[00:00:00] I'm Katherine Spearing and this is Uncertain.Starting in April of this year, I began partnering with Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery, working as a practitioner for this organization. This organization's CEO is Dr. Laura Anderson. You may be familiar with her. She's been on the pod a couple of different times. She's also the author of the book, When Religion Hurts You.She's awesome. She's the boss. I work with her and a bunch of other really great practitioners over there. If you are looking for mental health professional, a trained, highly qualified, highly experienced mental health professional that can help you navigate religious trauma, spiritual abuse, and all of the sub categories that fall beneath that.I encourage you to check out Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. I am currently accepting a few new clients, and there are several other practitioners that are also accepting clients. I know that's a big thing that comes up a lot in the religious trauma spiritual abuse [00:01:00] world is folks just really struggling to find a mental health professional that understands religious trauma and spiritual abuse and the nuances and complexities of the subculture of evangelicalism and church culture.So if that is something that you are looking for, I encourage you to check them out. The link will be in the show notes. Also in April of this year, I signed a book deal with Lake Dry Books. My book, Surprise Surprise is about spiritual abuse. It will be coming out in sometime in 2025. Date is yet to be determined, so I encourage you to sign up for Tears of Eden's mailing list for updates on the release of that book. The need that this book is going to fill in the world of religious trauma and spiritual abuse recovery, that is something that I see lacking in theIt's the need of making the connection between the theology of evangelicalism that actually leads [00:02:00] to the abuse happening. I'm not seeing that a lot in the literature today. Our guest a couple of weeks ago, Krista Brown, she made that connection in her memoir, Baptist Land. But outside of that, it's not really a common thing that folks are addressing. So I felt like it was a pretty important subject to navigate in my book. It's going to be mostly. Following my journey of recovery, but it's not a memoir and it is also going to be pulling some stuff from the work with Tears of Eden. There are direct quotes from podcasts that you may have listened to So sign up for the mailing list so that you can get updates about that. Today's guest is my friend and colleague Janai Allman, and I am so excited about this episode. This is an episode that I have been wanting to do for a couple years. And a few weeks before Janai had, and I had this episode scheduled to record, she sent out a Substacks article about the very subject [00:03:00] that we're going to be talking about today.We are going to talk about her book that just came out, Othered, and we are going to talk about the book a little bit as well, But Janai graciously agreed to have this conversation with me because we both learned a lot of things about telling our stories publicly and how to stay safe and also make sure we get to say our side of the story and those two things are super important on the other side of abuse.So very excited about this episode. I hope this is one that people will re listen to over and over and over again, and I am so excited to be able to include this as a resource for Tears of Eden and for folks who encounter Tears of Eden. Janai Almon is a Filipina American writer and artist who draws from her years in church leadership as well as her trauma informed training to write on healing, hope, and the way forward.She is passionate about providing language to readers so they can find a faith inspiring that freeze. She received her bachelor's degree in behavioral health science, and is currently pursuing a [00:04:00] master's in spiritual formation at Northeastern Seminary. Janiyah lives in Houston, Texas with her husband, Tyler, and their sons, Quinn and Graham.Here is my interview with Janiyah Allman Katherine: Hello, Janai. Jenai: Hi. How are you? I'm really good. I'm so glad we're doing this. Katherine: Yes, me too. I'm very excited about this episode and the subject that we are going to talk about today because it is one, as you and I have, talked about prior to the episode is something that is a big discussion within the survivor community for folks who are wanting to go public with their stories and discussing how to protect ourselves from the potential for a civil lawsuit.It is not an uncommon thing and it's becoming more common like I'm, I'm seeing it happen a lot. You just went through experience of writing a book before we [00:05:00] jumped on, you talked about going through a legal review when you were writing your book. So everything that we're sharing today is going to just be to help people have some awareness about this experience of going public with your story and protecting yourself because you want to, you want to protect yourself. As we jump in, I definitely want to highlight your book . So give folks a just rundown of what your book is and why you wanted to write this book. Jenai: Yeah, I, so my book is a faith oriented book, so I know that some people who might listen to Uncertain, they might be in varying degrees of faith, or totally deconverted altogether, I make space for the deconverted, and but also, I wrote this space reorienting, or I wrote the book reorienting, like, how I posture myself to Like the stories in the Bible and I weave in personal narrative.So this is what I experienced. How does that, how is that at all in accord with scripture? How, and it isn't [00:06:00] a lot of what I experienced while working on staff at a church, one of those churches that are often in those podcasts where they talk about the main guy who started the affiliation yelling at people.Like, I think people, I was a part of a very high control, very toxic masculinity church planting network. And I was ostracized and kicked out essentially othered in from my church because I wouldn't, I wouldn't shut up and I wouldn't, I wouldn't stop advocating for myself. And so I wrote othered.To tell my story and to essentially provide a road map to this is why I still am a Christian. I kind of detangled my experience of that space from the harm I experienced. And I have found a renewed relationship in God. However, it doesn't land per like I'm not in a church today. I'm not and some people, they are so mad that I'm not in a church today.Which, that's like a whole other thing. And then other people are going to be mad that Katherine: you still identify as a [00:07:00] Christian. Yeah. Jenai: Yeah. Like I'm not in a church. I still identify as a Christian. I'm in seminary. So that makes it like even kookier for people. And, and so I sit in a weird place where even as I tell my story, sometimes I still feel very othered because I haven't landed where other people wanted me to land.But that's kind of the whole point. Like I want people to feel free to land wherever, even my, like, I don't mention my husband very often, but even my husband has landed somewhere different in faith. And that's like much more toward deconversion. And so I hold space for a lot of different people. So anyway, I wrote other, I share, it's not a memoir.So it doesn't tell even people get mad whenever I say, I don't say everything that happened in the book, and I think we're going to talk about all of that and maybe why I didn't do that. A lot of that is just to protect myself. I think a lot of people want that, though, and they don't understand the risk that goes into telling everything like in a memoir style.I just use [00:08:00] pieces of the story. Like, my story is not up for debate. But I just used these instances, instances and moments to say, here's where something in me fractured and I had to find my way back to myself again. So yeah, I'm really glad to share. Katherine: Absolutely. And I really appreciate you sort of setting things up and just kind of letting folks know like this is where I have landed.Yeah, I had space for other people for where they have landed. I think that's really helpful because I think a lot of folks from evangelicalism will, like, come on and talk about you know, what they believe. And there is this, like, very subtle agenda of, like, I want you to believe the same thing as me which comes straight out of, These toxic evangelical cultures of like, we can't interact with you unless you believe the same thing.And so I really appreciate that. You've set it up that way and that you have written the book that way pertaining to the subject that we're going to [00:09:00] discuss today. What did you, what made you feel like it was important to write this story? in a public way and put it in a book and put it on all of the other public writing that you have written. You may already know this, but the uncertain podcast is the affiliate podcast of tears at Eden, a nonprofit that serves as a community and resource for survivors of spiritual abuse. This podcast and the work of tears are supported by donations from generous listeners. Like you. If you're enjoying this podcast, please consider giving a donation by using the link in the show notes or visiting tears of eaton.org/support. You can also support the podcast by rating and leaving a review and sharing on social media. If you're not already following us, please follow us on Facebook at tears of Eden and Instagram at uncertain podcast. Thanks so much for listening.And now back to the show. Katherine: what made you feel like it was important to write this story? in a public way and put it in a book and put [00:10:00] it on all of the other public writing that you have written.Jenai: Yeah. Well, it was, I can imagine cause there was a lot of back and forth between me and the leadership of the church of like, what was wrong, what wasn't wrong. And, and I was watching them and this is probably something you, you resonate with also, but like watching them make it make sense in their heads, like take this really.dumb argument that they've made and they've kind of loaded it with a lot of Christian speak to somehow justify like whatever conclusion that they came to. So in short, I was terminated from my position. They never used the word terminated though. They always used transition out. That was kind of a part of the The Christian speak, you know, yes, it made it sound like more polite to them as if what they weren't what they were doing to me was not impolite or like rude or loving.They were like, Oh, we're just transitioning her out. We're just like jet [00:11:00] gently pushing her out and telling her to shut the hell up. I'm sorry. I don't know if this is a you're allowed to pass. Katherine: Yes. Jenai: And so Yeah, I was like, you use these grace laced words and so I kind of started fighting back with no, you're not supposed to do this isn't so in many ways the book and the book's not an argument.It's not formatted as an argument. It is essentially kind of how I kept fighting back. And I don't even say this in the book. It's it was my resistance and how my resistance played out over the course of time Using the very scriptures that they were trying to use against me and I was saying no, no, no, no, no Like Katherine: yeah, Jenai: you know I think a big a big banner scripture and it's not in the book at all Ezekiel 34 like you are feeding on the sheep I am a sheep that was in your care and the ways in which I was treated wasn't okay And you're supposed to hear my voice And you didn't just not hear me.You like silenced me. And [00:12:00] so writing the book was pivotal for me because I think many other people are having to deal with that too. That doublespeak, duplicitousness. And they don't know how to combat it. And for whatever reason, maybe it's my stubborn, Filipina nature or maybe it's a little bit of like Texas stubborn in me as well, but I was like you You will not overpower me.You have done everything to like push me out, but I I will Like there was something stubborn in me that was like, I will dig down. Cause I know something in this is not right. And I'm going to keep speaking up. So yeah, I thought it was super pivotal to give people language. And I think some of that says that in my bio, like I want to provide people with language.I don't know what it is. I don't want to tell people what to do, but I want to give them language to say, this is what my resistance looks like, and Katherine: I Jenai: hope and healing, I think healing and resistance are both and and I think this is what you can envision for yourself also. Katherine: Right. I love that healing and resistance are both [00:13:00] and and for whatever reason that someone chooses to go public with their story.Part of that reason could just could be the healing reason like that. That is that feels important to me as a part of my healing. I need this story to be public. It could be just to teach people as you, as you chose to do just to sort of show people. Here are. other ways to interpret these things that these power hoarders are just, you know, funneling at you and there's so many of them and they're so powerful and they're so convincing and they're so nice when they say it, it's really hard to, to fight back even just in our own minds.So there's so many reasons why someone feels that it's important. to go public with their story. And what we're going to talk about today, folks, is how to protect yourself if you decide to go [00:14:00] public with your story. Disclaimer at the very beginning. Neither Janai nor I are legal counsel, we are not lawyers, we have life experience that we are going to share, we are going to give recommendations, but we encourage everyone to do your own research, look into this yourself, know what the risks are because there are risks.When you put your story of being abused in public and make the best wise decision for you and your health and where you are in your story. So with that disclaimer, we're going to kind of talk about two different parts in this episode. One, we're just going to talk about ways that you can safely tell your story that might mitigate your opportunities or the potential risk of being sued by someone.Yeah. That said. Someone can file a civil lawsuit for anything. They don't have to have corroborating evidence or anything. [00:15:00] They can make up a total lie to file a civil lawsuit. All they need is Money, really, that's really the only thing that they need. And so we're never going to be able to completely eliminate the risk for being sued, but there are some things that we have learned on our journeys that can help us navigate and protect ourselves in the event that that actually happens.So that's going to be the part two of this episode. jumping right in. If you have some things that you have learned in your process about ways to phrase things, how to phrase things, things that you learned while writing your book of, okay, I can't say that, but I can say this, would love to hear just a rundown of some stuff that you have learned in your process of telling your story publicly.Jenai: Yeah, yeah. Well, and I'll say sometimes I share parts of my story on Instagram and no [00:16:00] one's really policing what I say on Instagram. But there was much more kind of like being cautious and careful in a publication, like a book. And so just before I wrote. Or finished the manuscript of Othered. I think it was Prince Harry's memoir.Yeah, his memoir came out. And I, and I was like, I want to read that. And I just read it before even finishing the manuscript. Just because I wanted to see, how does he tell this? And not have the power of the throne come down at him. And if anyone, I began paying attention, I mean the story is wild, but also began paying attention to how he told it, or how the ghost writer was telling it for him.And I don't know if anyone else has read it, but there's kind of like, sometimes you read like, him saying, did this happen? He's like self doubting. Yes. In, in the book. Did you pick up on that also? Huh. Katherine: Yeah. Jenai: Like he was like, I, am I remembering this correctly? Almost as [00:17:00] if like, you can't come after me.I'm telling you that it's just my memory. It's just Katherine: memory. Jenai: So I learned that it is different to write something as 100 percent fact, even though there are things in my book that were 100 percent fact. This is what happened, but because I didn't have evidence or I didn't have like a screenshot or a recording of the meeting to say this is 100 percent fact, I had to say.And this is such, it's weaker. It makes for weaker writing, but it protects you more. I had to say, I remember this person saying, Katherine: yeah. Jenai: Whereas before I had it written in dialogue, like so and so said this to me, and I responded in this way, and they said, we need this corroborated, or we need evidence, or you need to re write it and say, I remember.this happening. I remember this happening. And I thought, man, like, it kind of sucks a little bit. It sucks the, like the, the wind from your sails. But I remember that being a [00:18:00] pivotal a pivotal point in like, Oh, then there were some things I do. And I, I remember, I don't know if anyone's in the middle of anything.And I'm in a one party state, meaning as long as one party in the conversation consents to a recording. You can record the conversation. And so long as I was a party, I, I, I was like, I give myself consent to record this conversation, something in my gut before I even left my position, something in my gut said, Start recording these conversations.And so I did. You're going to have to look up your own local laws to see if you're a one party or a two party state. Sometimes you need consent from everyone in the meeting before you can record. I know California is like that and maybe others. Yeah. And so I remember hitting record. And feeling a little bit bad about that.I'm like, this is, this is, this seems weird and creepy on my part at the time, but there was something in my gut [00:19:00] that was telling me, record this conversation. And I remember texting a fellow coworker who was also experiencing the same like mess that I was. And I texted her and I said, is it wrong of me to record this conversation?And she goes, Oh my gosh, yes. And I thought it was wrong. Yes. She, even she like, even in who, And even she couldn't, cause it feels that creepy. Yeah. Like even the people who are in it with you might think, oh, this isn't gracious of you. But I didn't listen to her and I thought I was going to keep recording.And now, like if I talk to her now. And I told her, Hey, remember when you told me I should stop recording? I didn't, she would probably say, I'm so glad you didn't listen to me. Right. I'm so glad you just kept doing it. And so I, I did have evidence. I did have evidence. I had screenshots. Instagram messages, or not Instagram, my goodness.IPhone, iMessage. Katherine: Yeah. Jenai: Like they have like these settings where it says, you know, delete my messages after a month, delete 'em after a year or whatever. I [00:20:00] turn that feature off, so I have a ton of like, storage on my phone from all my stored messages, but that's really so that I have all the evidence.And so I took screenshots. Yeah. And I put all of that in a folder to send off. For those that don't know, when you read a, when you write a book, they usually do what's called a permissions read. Meaning if you added stories of other people your editor will go through and read to see who do you need permission from.And they'll give you like a form to send to that friend who says, I give permission for this story to be in the book. And for me, I thought, well, I don't know how this is going to work. I'm not going to get permission from anyone to tell the story. Katherine: Yeah, Jenai: and they emailed me back and they were like, congratulations, you don't need to get permission.However, we do need to do a corroboration read or a legal read of the book, and this is what our lawyer has flagged as like comments in the document for like, this is where you need [00:21:00] corroboration or change the word or evidence and Yeah, so that's kind of like an overview of the process. Katherine: And corroboration is another person saying, yes, that.Yes, Jenai: yes, that happened. Even, even though you don't have evidence, if someone else can say, yes, this happened, I was there, I witnessed it. I know that that is exactly how that it played out. They are kind of like your witness. It is not evidence. It's your witness. Katherine: Yeah, absolutely. And that is. For them and for you in the event that you do get sued.We already have this ready, we have to go, we have someone backing this up, we have someone that has verified that this is true for that again doesn't necessarily prevent the lawsuit from happening, but it is stuff that can just protect you in the event. Some other things that are helpful that you are.Probably alluding to saying things like allegedly, or it is my opinion [00:22:00] appeared to me that X, Y said this, or it seemed as if, and that feels so weird saying that when it's like your story and it happened to you, but it's also just kind of acknowledging. A human limitation. So just kind of putting it in that category.And, and memory memory does change over time. It doesn't mean that it wasn't 100 percent true, but it we're just we're just kind of acknowledging human beings have limitations and I am a human being, and it's and it's protection. It's okay to protect yourself. You are not being dishonest, but it is, it does feel so weird, especially when we come out of these environments where we have been silenced and our story and our narrative gets taken by other people and twisted and reframed.We just want to say it like this happened and this person was so horrible, awful, blah, blah, blah, blah. And there are [00:23:00] spaces to do that. And. Maybe write the first draft with like every expletive you ever wanted to use, get it all out and then go back. and adjust it for public consumption. Maybe wait a few days.And so yes, those emotions need to be felt. Those emotions need to be gotten out and you also want to protect yourself. So both of those things can happen. And the importance of just the reality that the story is out there and there may be some things that just feel a little weird to say them a certain way, but it has a story out there.How do you navigate that of like, this wasn't the most ideal way to write this but it was the safest way to write this. How do you navigate that experience? Jenai: Yeah. I remember In, I think it's in the first chapter of the book, I am certain it's in the first chapter of the book, because I start the book with a story [00:24:00] of my first day of work that started with my executive director yelling Or, you know, whatever your definition of, yeah, I think it was yelling I called it not yelling, but he was raising his voice because, you know, there is no, I can't track the decibel level of what he's saying, and like, I don't want that to be a whole argument, but even that, I kind of cushioned and said, He wasn't yelling, but he was raising his voice to the degree that everyone in the building could hear him.You know what I mean? Katherine: Yeah, and so people are going to be like, he was yelling. Jenai: Yeah, he was yelling. And so it's subversive little things like that. And so. I, I kind of cushioned where I could, but then later in the chapter when I, my first chapter is kind of about giving people terms, because people use spiritual abuse in different ways, or church hurt in different ways, and so I kind of tracked with like, this is how I'm using them for the book.So I tell that [00:25:00] story, and then I share kind of my definition of these terms, and because I put some cushion in the story later when I talk about that experience, when I name what happened in that experience, I say, this was spiritually abusive. And I just say it. I felt like I had the confidence to say it there, because I had the allegedly in the cushion.I didn't, I didn't have to write this was a, I alleged that this was spiritual abuse. I could just say it with punch and power later in the chapter. And so there are kind of subversive ways like that, that you as a writer, or even if you tell your story because I know some people might be Not everyone's writing, some people are podcasters, some people are sharing their stories in different ways and so there are there are subversive ways to tell the truth, such that you are clever, and you can protect yourself as well.There's something, some verse in Matthew that's like, you know, be as wise as a serpent. But be as gentle as a dove [00:26:00] and I think I do that in the book like I had to navigate this I wanted the book to be compassionate, but I also wanted to be clever and I wanted to show like I could still tell my story and so yeah, there's places you can put cushion when you need to.And then if you're, if you're clever with your writing, the imagery and or the, you know, the imagination of the reader will fill in the gaps. Thanks. Yeah, Katherine: but then you are still protected. Jenai: Yeah. Katherine: Another, another thing that feels weird is when we're writing about someone who's not a public figure changing names, changing physical identifiers, that also feels super weird.Cause we're like, we just want them to know that it was this person. But the reality is that most people don't know that person. And so thinking of it as a wider. public facing thing rather than the 5, 10, 20, 100, or a thousand people within that space who would know who that is. And that vindication that we [00:27:00] would get from making it obvious who the person is versus protecting ourselves and, and just changing their name, changing physical identifiers.That's different if it is a public figure. When it's a public figure, you can phrase it. a way to phrase it is, or a way to, to angle it or approach it is to write it as if it is for the public good. Like, Hey, a lot of people are asking me about this person. And so I'm sharing this story so that the public will know that this happened, or it isn't, it is important to me that people know that this, you know, public figure.You know, Robbie Zacharias is a predator, you know, like, like stuff like that, where you are, you are saying you're doing it for the public good. And in essence, you are. So that is another way where they, again, they can still see you for [00:28:00] defamation and libel, all of the things. But when you're approaching it as I'm doing this for the, like, Oh, I'm just doing this for the public.And that's what, that's what journalists do. Like they, that's why they write, like, you know, Or that's the ethics that they are supposed to follow of this is important information. This is truth that the public needs to be aware of. And so that's another angle to approach it as and even a way to kind of approach the story as a, as a whole, as you, you did of It's important that people know there's a different way to interpret these verses and making sure that the public knows that there are other ways to say this.And that's another angle. And Jenai: that's why I actually don't use names or even fake names at all in my book. And I think that's a reason why I think people approach it. They're like, this is Jani's story. And I was like, this is really the story of my resistance. It's not the [00:29:00] story of like everything that happened.And so I think that might, like, you know, I think people want to hear like the nitty gritty and I. I would have had to use so much more mental and emotional labor if I was telling stories of how they allegedly kept using my social security number for their church credit card 18 months after I was fired.You know, like, I, I would have to, like, it would take so long. So much more mental labor for me to talk about, like how financial fraud came about or how, how all these other things happened and changing names. And so that's why I was like, I can't write a memoir. I'm not a memoirist. Katherine: Mm-Hmm, . Jenai: But I can tell my story of my resistance and in doing it, framing it that way, I could tell pieces of my story and then not use names.And so I say things like executive director. Yeah, or a senior pastor or lead pastor. And so the people who [00:30:00] are there who read the book will know exactly who I'm talking about. And another way that I've protected myself, and I don't know if a lot of people know this, is that I actually helped plant the church.And what I mean, what I say, what I mean when I say that is, In Texas, when you file for a non profit or corporate, a non profit corporation status with our state, you have to have three signing directors to kind of legalize this organization with, you know, the Austin. the state capitol. And I was one of the signers.So there, it was me and two other guys as signing directors that that stuff is open access. So if you go and Google that stuff, you find my name connected to that church. One way that I've protected myself is I don't write under my full name, Jani Amen. That's my first and my middle name. And When you, I mean, they could still probably find, if someone digs enough, [00:31:00] they can find it.But I can say I put, like, measures in place to not be connected. I don't name the church, that's another thing. I don't talk about even the neighborhood that it was in in the book. So people can't geographically locate it. So, in many ways, I have hemmed myself in from further harm that they could do, and I've just, I've provided cushion in other ways, not just in the book, but in how I approach telling my story, and a pen name, that's not deceptive to readers, that's like, pen names Yeah, pen names are, yeah, it's like industry standard people I mean, that's happened, pen names have happened for a long time.And so I didn't, I'm still writing under my genuine names. I'm just writing under my first and my middle name. Which is what a lot of people do. So yeah, that was just another way I protected myself. Katherine: Yeah. And then another [00:32:00] small detail that could play a role is the names of states lawsuits are, are usually organized by a state and it's called jurisdiction. So if it's if it's possible to remove even state identifiers and just use the area of the country or change the state or whatever, then that just that ties things up. Legally within the context of of a lawsuit and can make it like if it's outside of the, the person who did the wrong, allegedly did the wrong outside of their state and they have to sue across state lines or, or something like that.And, and there's no, indication that it actually happened within the state, within the writing then that can just make it a little bit trickier to file a lawsuit and to, to get it [00:33:00] through. And so it just makes it a little bit more challenging. So those are just some other things to consider as you're, as you're writing.I know when I write about my family, I always say the South. I never say the state. I always say the South. I've started doing very recently. And even if people ask me like in person where I grew up, I just say the South and they'll be like, where? And I was like, I just say the South. Just cause I don't want that connection to a specific state for those jurisdiction reasons.Another fun fact tidbit that is not legal advice. Interested in listening to more than 40 archived Uncertain Podcast episodes? All you have to do is sign up to become a monthly supporter of 5 or more. Becoming a monthly supporter will give you access to popular episodes such as Confessions of a Christian Parent and When Bad People Do Good Things.You'll also get access to this episode without any interruptions from yours truly. Become a monthly supporter today by going to tiersofedian. org slash [00:34:00] support.Katherine: All right. Anything more we want to say about that before we jump into the experience of. working with lawyers and what what might happen on the other side of a lawsuit. Jenai: No, I, I think that kind of tidies up the I will say I have a very unique name.Not every, if you're like a Rachel Smith, You know, you probably have, if someone Googles you they're gonna find so many other Rachel Smiths. And so with the pen name thing, I don't want anyone to freak out or feel like they have to change their name, especially if your name means a lot to you. So please, I just want to be like really sensitive to that.As a Jani Amon, I, you know, or just a Jani in general, they're going to find me. I'm going to be on page one of the Google there, there are more of us than I realize, but the, there aren't as many who are public on the internet. And so, yeah, I would say that's the only thing I can say a Houston church and everyone's like Katherine: Yeah. We'll find you. People find you. And I mean, that is something that you can do. It's not, you know, [00:35:00] It's a it's an option for for protection using using the the pen name.And I think, as you said, if it's. very intentional that we're not trying to like go after this person and take them down. It, it helps. Those are just little things that can help. As we jump into talking about the bum, bum, bum, bum, what if you do get sued? Let's talk about some ways that We can protect ourselves in the event that that happens.It is not uncommon and just want to let folks know from where I sit in the work that I do, I am seeing, if you're talking about the spiritual abuse space and going public about abuse that pastors have done or denominations or whatever, I am watching pastors and denominations and organizations become more litigious.They are, they are fighting back. By filing civil suits. [00:36:00] Now it is my opinion. We need to also be fighting back and filing civil suits. But when you've been abused, a lot of times you don't want to do that. And that is it's over for you. You are moving on and health and you do not want to interact with that person anymore.But the, the increase of lawsuits and civil suits from. Pastors suing folks who have accused them of abuse that is growing and I project is probably going to continue to grow as they fight back and they lose power. So it is not. a unlikely event if you start going public and start talking about specific people especially and specific denominations especially.Very sad, just going to acknowledge that right here that that even needs to be a reality but as you absolutely quoted at the beginning Be Wise is Wise as serpents and gentle as doves and this is just a way to be [00:37:00] real wise when we start going public with our stories. Now, one thing to just be aware of, of I don't know that a lot of people know this but you can get Insurance for yourself for things like liable defamation, slander.And if you, I recommend talking to a local broker in your city and just say, Hey, this is what I'm doing. I have a podcast or I put a lot of stuff on my website or I'm writing a book and I need coverage. What are your recommendations? The brokerage will do, broker will do the research for you and likely present you with some options of things that you can purchase for your own protection.When you do that, when you have insurance and if these, you know, alleged abusers know that you have insurance, it does increase the likelihood that you're going to get sued. And the reason why is because if you get [00:38:00] sued and you have no money there, you file bankruptcy and they get nothing. If you, if they see you and have insurance, then they are increasing the likelihood that they are going to get money because insurances can just decide.This is, it's more expensive to defend this case than to settle this case and they can make that decision that they're going to settle instead of defend. That's just a nuance of how the system works. It does not mean that you are admitting fault. You never have to admit fault. But if an insurance company is covering you, then they might make that choice on your behalf.They can do that. And lawyers know that and so if you have insurance, it does increase. slightly increase your chance of getting sued. However, the alternative is basically you don't have insurance and then you then not only are going through the horrendous [00:39:00] emotional stress of a lawsuit, you're also having to pay for it.So that is just something to consider. As you are going public with your story and something very simple that you can do to protect yourself. You can add it on to your renter's insurance. You can add it on to your mortgage. I think it's a, if it's something that you do regularly, like for you and I, or for myself forming an LLC, forming a nonprofit so that you have the insurance to cover that specific entity and you do all of the work under that entity.So then you are not on the hook should something happen because it's under that entity. Those are just real weird nuances and something that most people are never going to have to know or be aware of. But for this particular thing of going public about our story of abuse is something for folks to be aware of.Would you like to share about what someone might expect [00:40:00] when, if they have to interact with lawyers? Jenai: Yes. And that was hard. That was hard. I don't remember if we said this during the recording, but lawyers are not. Dental? Yes. They're not trauma informed.They don't really, their concern is, Like winning and not necessarily, I mean, that's kind of like what I feel like with pastors, pastors are so many pastors, not all pastors are concerned about like upping the numbers. And sometimes the spiritual abuse happens because they look at the metrics and not at the people.And in many ways, I kind of felt some of that with like, Katherine: Hey, Jenai: just want to make sure that they win, not necessarily that this person is cared for. That's someone else's job. I will say I do not have a lawyer. I had, I worked with the lawyer, the legal representation with my publisher, so when I, when they did that permissions read, that was [00:41:00] not a permissions read, and they transferred it over to a legal read the editor read through, but then the editor also had the lawyer read through.And the lawyer went through and commented on the document certain things. Sometimes I don't know if I was supposed to see these comments or if they were supposed to scrub them. And I, I, because in reading some of their comments, they're trying to think about how can this writer say this? So that really so that everyone is protected, but sometimes they write it as if the writer did something wrong here and it just lands on you kind of hard.And getting the email that said, you know, we need, we need you to provide corroboration. It felt a lot like, They don't believe me. Katherine: Yeah. You have to prove that this was true. Jenai: Yes. Katherine: Yeah. And Jenai: that I knew it was coming from other people I had spoken with and other writers and authors that I know of. I knew that this was coming, so it didn't [00:42:00] hit me too hard.Katherine: Mm-Hmm. . I Jenai: can imagine that it might if other, other people aren't experiencing that, and I think. Oh, I'm so grateful for my agent. So if someone, if you can work with an agent some people say find whatever agent that you can find. But really my encouragement is if you can land with an agent, not just somebody who will have you, but someone who will have your back.Katherine: Yeah, that Jenai: is pretty pivotal. And she was sensitive enough. She also, that was another thing, all my emails between me and my publisher go to my agent as well. My agent is a part of an agency who has a lawyer at the head. And so he kind of, he's not my agent, but he's connected. And so I, I feel very kept at that particular, like, and held.Katherine: Yeah at Jenai: that agency, but my agent was sensitive enough that she got the email and before I responded to the email Or before I even texted her she texted me I want to say five [00:43:00] minutes after the email hit my inbox and she said I want you to know This doesn't mean that they don't believe you. They're all everyone's just concerned about making sure The book is protected that you're protected.This doesn't mean that they don't believe you and I You I knew that it was just really nice to have someone else tell me that. And I know that depending on, I think self publishing is a totally valid journey especially after going through publishing. So not everyone has an agent, but even if you can get someone in your corner, who's a part of walking through the process with you, even if it's not an agent who can read this stuff with you and tell you the things that Even you yourself know, I know that this means that they don't believe me.Hearing it from another person really does help just take care of like your body, your nervous system. And so that, but it was a very hard thing to read. And then the comments from the lawyer herself were also really. really hard. I think [00:44:00] sometimes some people think it's the men and I'm like, no, not Katherine: really.No, no, no, no, no. It is not. It is not. And they, they, again, as you said, they want to win. And so they are thinking about this from a perspective of like, if we get into a lawsuit, how will we win? What are the things that we need in order to win? And so much of the civil lawsuit there are absolutely situations.I know someone who is suing someone for financial fraud right now and it is a genuine situation in which they should be suing that person, but this can also just be this very capitalistic way for power holders to just be bullies. There aren't a lot of like regulations about like, is this a legitimate reason to sue someone.And so. It's a game. A lot of it's a game. And the, the lawyers, a certain type of person ends up being a lawyer, and they are, they're, they're, they're about strategy and the game, and how do I win this game, and they are [00:45:00] not, thinking you are an abuse survivor who has been extremely traumatized and they're not thinking how is this going to land for you.They also tend to have very little other than just like very high level understanding of like rape is sexual abuse. They don't have a lot of understanding about the nuances of abuse and what exactly is abuse. And so. That when you've already gone through an experience of having to justify and defend yourself and, and convince yourself that this is real and this really happened and, and what you are experiencing and how you are navigating your trauma is real to then have this real life experience of people just like not believing you, even though that's not necessarily the case, but it feels like they don't believe you.It can be very re traumatizing, and so we're just, we're just sharing this to just like, just be aware. Make, make a wise choice of, of this with [00:46:00] awareness. And as Janai said, surround yourself with people, give yourself some good people who are going to be there to support you. Also, something to keep in mind, a civil suit is not a criminal suit.You are not a criminal. You do not commit a crime. It might feel like it, but you didn't do anything wrong. Again, people can sue for any reason whatsoever. They do not have to have any, any corroboration. All they have to do is be a bully and have a lot of money. Jenai: Yeah. I write in other actually, like if people, if people you are calling out someone for misuse of power, they will continue to misuse their power and abuse their power to silence you.And so they're going to be like, oops, my bad. They will keep doing it. They will keep coming after you. And I think really the only way to stop it from happening is you have to find your power back. And, and that can be through a number of things, [00:47:00] whether, like, people can corroborate your story, you've gathered evidence I will say for anyone gathering evidence or in the middle of that process, don't necessarily do everything under, like, if you get something to your work email and that work email is connected to the abusive situation, start forwarding everything to your personal email because they will close that email account eventually and you will lose evidence, that was in my case, I've also, there was a pastor in my story.It's not in the book at all, but who has been trying to meet with me or he has been meeting with me for coffee, trying to reconcile, and I feel safe enough to have these conversations with him and not feel talked down to, or not feel, you know, gaslit. I won't let that happen. But because he has extended an olive branch and has kind of admitted to some of the wrongdoing he's done in the corroboration process, I needed to corroborate that I was given, you know two severance options, and I didn't have that screenshot.It was in, [00:48:00] like, a slide. I have a Slack channel that I'm no longer a part of. It was in my old work email that I never forwarded to my personal email. And so I had to get corroboration for that. And I asked this pastor, I will say lawyer or the lawyer for the publisher, they said, if your husband can corroborate, he is allowed to corroborate for your story.Right. So that was super helpful. And I, but instead of in title, my husband did corroborate for some of the things, but for this severance option, I thought I'm going to ask the pastor, my friend to do this, my former friend to do this because he can use the one that gave me the severance options. And it was really like a, let me see the test of your character, whether you'll do this, and he didn't, he said, Katherine: oh, goodness, he Jenai: said, there's just so much more nuance.And I'm not saying whether or not there is nuance to the situation. And by the way, I reject his nuance. It was total crap. I was just saying, the [00:49:00] corroboration is. Did you or did you not give me two severance options? And he wanted to say, you know, he wanted to say, but this happened, like, and I was like, yeah.And I said, can you do this? Can you confirm this? And he said, no, I won't corroborate for you. And I was like, you dirty liar. I was like, fine. I, I, I wasn't upset. I was just like, okay. Katherine: You showed, you showed your colors. Jenai: Yeah, you are actually Like confirming that you are still in alignment with the character of the person that I knew before.And like my lack of trust with you is validated. Like I can no longer trust. I can't, like my, my gut is telling me the right things. I gave you an opportunity to mend some of that trust and you did not. So I still have it in the book that I was given two severance options because my husband was like, yes, you were given two severance options.And I remember that. And if it ever [00:50:00] goes to court and everyone gets deposed, that's what they're going to say, you know, like you, yeah, Katherine: you have to. Yeah. And exactly. I can cut this from the episode, but was one of the options, Like you have to sign an NDA and you get this? Jenai: No. Okay. There was no NDA.We can keep this in. I was given two severance options. Here's the thing, and this is how pivotal, I was the primary on the bank account. Like my, I could have done anything with the finding. I didn't. But that I, I had the passwords to everything. I was the primary check signer. I had a lot of things that I was responsible for.I had no power over because they, you know, kind of cuffed me in terms of like what did and didn't happen. And I was trying to follow the rules. But because I had the access and the responsibility to maintain everything, they couldn't just get rid of me super quick because they needed that access. And [00:51:00] so my severance options were two weeks notice and two months severance.Or I work for two months and I get another three months severance and I, this was 2020. This is when people are losing their jobs. And I thought I need, I actually asked, I said, can I have more severance? Like, this is, you are my brothers. Yes. You are, you are like, tying my hands behind my back.You have given me no voice and no choice, even though I have consistently told you that this man's harmful. Can I have more severance? They ignored that request. I actually met with somebody who, and I told him, I said, remember you were ignored this request. And he was like, did we? And I said, yes, I remember asking for six months of severance.Because they do whatever they can't have to in their mind to protect their male fragility that they've done something wrong my husband was there, but the severance thing was [00:52:00] really really hard The kicker is is they did eventually get rid of the senior pastor They gave him like nine ten months worth of severance His salary.I, his salary was six figures. My salary was in the fifties. Mm-Hmm. . And so I, I felt like I wasn't asking a lot. A lot. I wasn't asking for a lot. Katherine: Right, exactly. Jenai: They gave him my salary and then some through his severance, like later, and I thought. Man, like, I, whatever, this is obviously, like, here is another instance where you have made a value statement that one person was more valuable than another, and even in sending them away, you wanted to send him away with so much care, and you just freaking threw me off.Yeah. It threw me overboard. So, Katherine: yeah. Oh my gosh. I have heard so many stories [00:53:00] like that of just like, they'll be so stingy with the person who blew the whistle. And then when they, you know, get forced to like, get rid of the pastor because it's just, too much collateral to keep him on because so many people are leaving or for whatever reason and and then they just send him off with like a year of severance and like you know continue to pay his insurance and like all this kind of stuff and you're just like guys yeah it is not an equitable system in any way shape or form Jenai: i would say i probably if i had to venture a guess i will never find a civil suit filed against me because I in gathering evidence and in kind of trusting my gut.They didn't know that I was recording things after they let me go and terminated me. They began a quote unquote internal investigation. And if anyone knows, it's not really that much of an investigation where they investigate themselves, [00:54:00] you know, like, come on, man. But. In these internal investigation talks, I recorded everything, and I was kind of triangulating the information with some members.And I was asking them, what are they telling you? Because this is what I was told. And what are they telling you? And thankfully, some of those what they were telling the members, some of that's recorded in member meetings. And so I was like, okay. One way. I think we mentioned before pastors still feel like they are just leaders in general feel like they have power.That's why they keep coming after you. And then 1 way to prevent that is to get your own power back. Once I revealed to them that I had been recording things. and catching them in their lies. Katherine: Yes. Jenai: They realized, Oh, we can't just tell her one thing and tell the members another thing. Cause I remember, I remember them telling me, you know, pastors on [00:55:00] probation, pastors, this, I recorded that meeting without their, their knowledge, because it's one party consent.And then I heard from the member meeting that Pastor went on stage and he said, they've given me time off. Like he wasn't, he wasn't forthright with I'm on probation. They also gave him the power to tell the story himself. Katherine: Yeah. Jenai: Which I thought, don't you know? And they were like, we gave him like an opportunity to own.And I was like, no, you didn't. You gave him an opportunity to save face and Katherine: I Jenai: sent them an email. And I said, this is what you've done. This is what I was told. Here is the screen recording. I don't know if this is the case anymore, but there's an app called Loom, where I, I think they might have disabled this feature.This was early days, 2020, when people were figuring out screen recording and all that stuff. But Loom will record, did record my screen. And because I didn't do it through Zoom, it didn't let the person know that I was [00:56:00] recording the call. Katherine: And so, Jenai: I sent them that video that said, This is what you said. Here it is in the transcript.And they stopped. Like, they just, they realized, Oh my gosh, we have to be more careful with her. Katherine: Mm hmm. And then at Jenai: that point, they, I noticed significantly that they were mincing words with me. Because, Katherine: they knew. Jenai: Well, and because I got my power back, they just couldn't just tell me anything anymore.I was weighing and measuring it against everything else they were telling other people. Katherine: Yeah, yeah. And if you are still happen to be in your situation, your abusive situation, document, document, document, document, document. If you can't record it, you can, you can leave a meeting and you can write your own notes.You can save the emails, as you know, I was saying, save the screenshots. Have your have all of your things that feel so weird to do that. Like you're just like a double agent. But just think of it that [00:57:00] way. Like, like you are a double agent in a hostile regime, just like, like that person. And yeah. and protect yourself and give yourself what you need to survive that.Speaking of survival in the event that you do get sued it is a very traumatizing situation to, like, have to be interacting with this stuff again and to not have agency over when you interact with that stuff. And, and it can be very re traumatizing. Litigation abuse is a real thing, such as. A, you know, woman tries to leave her violently abusive husband, even has a restraining order out.And for that husband to just want, he just wants to keep controlling her and maintain contact with her. We'll just sue her for nothing just to, to maintain the contact. So litigation abuse is a real thing. And that might help to just kind of look at it. That way of like, I'm [00:58:00] being abused in real time and care for yourself.If that were true, surround yourself with people, take a lot of naps be in therapy, if you can and give yourself a lot of tenderness and care in that situation. And you don't have to be this strong, bad ass all the time. Like if it's hard for you and it is a struggle, that's okay. It's okay if that is a struggle for you and you and it impacts you.That's why they're doing it. Like they're trying to impact you and for it to actually impact you and actually be like real time abuse that you're experiencing and for that to have an effect on you, that's okay. And give yourself resources in that situation so that you are actually being supported.when that is happening. One final thought and then I'll let you share final thoughts [00:59:00] too. If you decide that you want to file a civil suit against against a perpetrator or an abuser and you got a lot of evidence and a lot of corroboration and you think you got a good case, there are lawyers that work on contingency who will look at your case and say, I'm going to defend this case for free and I get paid if you get paid.So that is an option to do your research and not legal advice, but I really hope more people will do that. Do that, do that thing and just let them know, Hey, you're going to sue us. We're going to sue you. Monique, any final thoughts or any other things that you want to add to something that we left out or holes to fill?Yeah, Jenai: yeah. I will say if you live in a two party state and you have to get consent before recording, that can still work in your favor too. So after my former leaders found out I was recording, they eventually asked me to partake in a reconciliatory meeting. And I, I know I was like, I [01:00:00] will, I will come to that.And I told them I will come to that on two conditions. I, I had already sat on one side of the table with all six of them before. And I said, I need advocates there for me. Beyond my husband, I, I, I want people there who are for there for us. And the second request was that I record the meeting.If you, I thought, well, it's going, they're going to be much more careful with their words when they record the meeting, but still in that meeting, there were still some tells. Katherine: Yeah. For Jenai: instance, one thing I wrote about in other, I think maybe it's chapter three about apologies. And how I'm sorry, you feel that way is different than I, I'm sorry, I did this to you.Katherine: Yeah. Jenai: And in this rec, like this meeting that they, that they, they said, yes, they let me record it. They still said, I'm sorry, you feel that way. I'm sorry. You feel like you, I would, I had dismissed you and I'm sorry. And like, they still [01:01:00] kind of tell on themselves. So if you live in a two party state and you feel like you can't do these clever one party things.You can still gather good information, even if you ask. And they will still, they show their colors, even if they don't think that they're showing their colors. Like, I really think sometimes, sometimes some people know what they're doing and I think sometimes the self deception is so deep, they just don't know how bonkers it is.Or they're Katherine: super arrogant and they, they really genuinely feel like they can do whatever they want. Jenai: Yeah, yeah. And so there are ways in which you can gather information, even if, like, you don't have a similar one party state situation, like I do. I will also say that when it comes time to providing corroboration, you know, Asking for corroboration, I mentioned, was really hard, but also going back through the evidence, some of my evidence was audio or video recording, and [01:02:00] I had to go back and listen to Jenai: Or watch the video and provide a timestamp.I had to send them the audio or video link and give them a timestamp, and I, that was very difficult. Very hard on me. I did it because I needed to, but if that sounds like something you don't want to do try to find you'll, you'll, if you want to write it the way that you have it and not say, I remember this, you want to actually use that.Just be gentle with yourself. That is a really hard thing. I think I needed to not look at the book for a while after providing evidence because that was listening to those voices and seeing those faces again. It was really hard. And so I just wanted, I didn't want to not say that because people think, Oh, I have all this evidence going back and looking at the evidence can be really, really hard on you.Yeah. Katherine: Yeah, absolutely. And it's so important to just have our, our agency and interact with the [01:03:00] material in our own way in our own time. And when you have something like a book deadline, You don't always have that that capacity to just, yeah. You know, do it on your own time and just when you, when you feel good enough for it.And and a and a civil suit similar is there's deadlines, there's timelines, and you can't just like, oh, I just wanna block out this day and then the next day I'm gonna go get a massage. Like, you don't always have that agency. And just that, just that lack of control within that. Contacts can also feel retraumatizing.And so since we probably discouraged everybody listening to from going public with their stories, what let's remind folks again, like why it's sometimes important to go public with our stories. Jenai: I think it was important to me personally to keep my integrity. I did everything I could do to stop someone else from getting hurt.I, I stood up, I did exactly what my [01:04:00] faith had encouraged me to do. I did exactly the thing I, I believe. And I write this in the book sharing your story and telling your story and owning your story is a way to be like what I think the prophets of the old Testament did. The prophets, they didn't tell fortunes.They were calling people in power to account. I now realize the weight of that, like, oh my gosh, like that is, I did exactly, I spoke up and I don't, I know that not everyone will speak up, not everyone, you know, I had power, I had gathered all this evidence, I had the power to speak up because I had kind of things that bolstered me, not everyone has that, and I, I don't want anyone to feel shame If they feel like they can't tell their story because they don't have that same kind of support or evidence but keep telling your story to yourself so that you're validating yourself.If, if no one else will affirm you, there is still so much power in [01:05:00] affirming your own truth, your own story. No one can take that away from you, but they will do their damnedest to take it away from you. I will also say that it is. mentally grueling. It is I just want people to take care of themselves.Above all, just, just to, if you do and do this work and you know you're going to tell your story give yourself a lot of space and say no to other things that Yeah. Other expectations, other, you know, there are other friends who I'm promoting this book and it's a very vulnerable book. There are other friends who are also writers who also want me to write endorsements or who also in this particular time want me to do something for them and support them.And as much as I love them, I have had to say no to a lot of them as I promote this book or do this work because I'm trying to do it well and with capacity. And because the story is so vulnerable, it takes a lot out of me. So say like, just be [01:06:00] understanding that you have to say no to a lot of people that you love and like, that's okay.Yeah, the people who love you who hear no from you will still like acknowledge that this is okay. Katherine: Absolutely. Jenai: If they take offense to that, then maybe they aren't as big a support as you thought they were and just redraw the boundaries of that relationship, but make a lot of space for you and doing this work.Katherine: Absolutely. And the reality that it's really important to tell our story, to tell our version of the story, to reclaim our narrative, to reclaim our power post an abusive situation, but there are many ways to do that. And telling a story publicly does not have to be the only or only way. Or even an option like we it's important to tell those stories 100 percent highly encouraged finding safe places where you can tell your story.You don't have to go public with it. [01:07:00] Absolutely. And, and. There are things you can do if you decide that that's important to you to make sure that you are taking care of yourself and protecting yourself. Listen to this episode for that. As we wrap up, how can people find you, find your book, interact with you, and yeah, what are the easiest places for people to get in touch with you?Jenai: I am everywhere on the internet at Janiyah Amin. And I'm usually hanging out on Instagram, not really on Twitter or X or whatever it is anymore. It's getting more vitriolic over there. I also, what prompted this conversation was not only that I'm promoting a book, but I also wrote about this experience on Substack.And if you want, Catherine, I can send you the link and you can include that in any show notes on the website, but also what I've considered doing and wha

BUY JENAI's BOOK! Click the link or purchase a copy wherever you buy books. And you can find more of her stuff on her website and the Othered Substack: https://jenaiauman.substack.com/ Everyone knows what it feels like to be “othered”. As Jenai unpacks in our conversation, “othered” is a very provocative word that evokes some kind of emotion in us. While her experience is based primarily on being Filipina-American woman in predominantly white male spaces, there are countless ways to be othered: how much money we make, our hairstyle, the clothes we wear, our education, our faith, the books we read, our values, where we live, what we eat for lunch… the list goes on and on. When have you been othered? What did it feel like? As followers of Jesus, we cannot lose sight of creating community and belonging in diversity, not forced conformity. We represent a faith that encompasses an incredibly wide swath of humanity from every continent and nearly every country on the globe. Christianity is weird and eclectic. Let's embrace that weirdness as a way to include everyone. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/betterontheinside/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/betterontheinside/support

God's people are meant to be a blessing to others. Yet in the Scriptures, throughout history, and in our own times we too often see the people of God causing harm to people on the margins. Rather than caring for the widowed and the orphaned or loving the sojourner, too often we see abuse of power that breaks spirits and inflicts lasting harm. For anyone who has felt left out or pushed out of the church.. we hear you. God hears you. https://www.amazon.com/Othered-Finding-Belonging-Pursues-Marginalized/dp/1540903915See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Othering is pervasive in our climate of tribalism today, and its effects alienate us from ourselves and others. Jenai Auman joins me to discuss othering and ...the signs we often miss that we have been othered ourselvesthe role of anger in healingwhat do in the wildernessthe small and simple way to find belonging even when you can't be at churchand the #1 question to ask yourself when trying to help others heal from their othered experiencesJenai Auman is a Filipina American writer and artist. She draws from her years in church leadership as well as her trauma-informed training to write on healing, hope, and the way forward. She is passionate about providing language so readers can find a faith that frees. She received her bachelor's degree in behavioral health science and is currently pursuing a master's in spiritual formation at Northeastern Seminary. Jenai lives in Houston, Texas, with her husband, Tyler, and their sons, Quinn and Graham.WEBSITE AND SOCIAL MEDIA LINKShttps://www.jenaiauman.com/https://www.instagram.com/jenaiaumanhttps://www.facebook.com/jenaiaumanhttp://twitter.com/jenaiaumanPurchase Othered hereKate Boyd - Book | Newsletter | Instagram | Twitter

There is a lot of talk these days about the hurts and abuses taking place inside of churches. Unfortunately, that is true because such instances are not uncommon. Not only does it seem like every week a new story breaks of pastor or other Christian leader failing in his (usually these awful stories feature men) … Continue reading Episode 253 – Jenai Auman

This week, Merideth chats with two fellow writers, Sarah E. Westfall and Jenai Auman. They explore ways to foster joy for the long haul as they discuss their experiences writing and publishing their first traditionally published books together. (They come out within weeks of each other!) Merideth, Sarah, and Jenai emphasize the importance of community, celebrating milestones, and managing vulnerability, and offer encouragement for finding joy in the creative process itself and staying true to oneself despite challenges. Merideth's book: The Artist's Joy Artists for Joy IG Jenai Auman, author and artist Jenai's book: Othered Sarah E. Westfall, author and speaker Sarah's book: The Way of Belonging

You can learn more about Jenai by checking out her instagram, substack, and other socials. GO GET HER BOOK! The Cosmic CoupleOur short-form podcasts will put a smile on your face as we talk about relationships.Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify Ladder To Heaven On Earth Podcast (Hosted by LeVar Pompey)Join me in the step by step process of rebuilding our families, rebuilding our...Listen on: Apple Podcasts Support the Show.

The FINAL episode of Season 10 arrives featuring Jenai Auman! Don’t forget to rate the show and share it widely! In this episode…. Our conversation revolves around themes explored in Jenai’s book “Othered,” focusing on her experiences navigating toxic church environments and the subsequent journey toward healing and liberation. After introductions, Jenai and Rohadi dissect the dynamics of gaslighting and DARVO within toxic church environments, shedding light on the emotional turmoil and internal fractures caused by oppressive church systems. We delve into Jenai’s personal narrative of betrayal and resilience, emphasizing the profound cost of leaving toxic communities while highlighting the transformative power of reclaiming agency and identity. Throughout the conversation, we underscore the importance of boundaries and cultivating genuine belonging outside of oppressive structures, ultimately revealing the potential for liberation and renewal found in embracing one’s “otherness.” (more…)

How does trauma shape the journey of an entrepreneur? In this episode, Kiley Peters sits down with Corban David Jenai to tackle this complex question. Corban, a serial entrepreneur, speaker, writer, and the leader of HopeGuide, brings his personal and professional experiences to the forefront of the discussion.Corban defines trauma not simply as events but as our body's response to these events, affecting our nervous system and thought patterns. He shares his experiences by highlighting the importance of understanding and addressing these responses for personal growth and resilience.The conversation covers the specific challenges entrepreneurs face, like hypervigilance and workaholism, and how these can stem from unresolved trauma. Corban offers insights into recognizing and overcoming these issues including 4 key steps to address trauma and reduce barriers to healing. These include:Paying attention to what you put in your body, focusing on healthy and nourishing foods to support your nervous system.Prioritizing quality sleep to enhance your capacity to handle difficult situations and process emotional experiences.Engaging in regular physical movement to release stress and tension stored in the body, promoting overall well-being.Cultivating meaningful relationships and connections with others to heal from relational trauma and experience support and understanding.Corban's perspective offers a roadmap for entrepreneurs looking to navigate their own experiences with trauma and find a path to healing and success.Quotes“I think that it can be helpful to identify in our lives where we may have trauma that's sort of left unaddressed. But I want to be very clear, as I've said in the beginning, it doesn't mean that something is broken. It doesn't mean that you're broken. Our ability to handle hard things and store it in our body is a f***ing miracle. Like, it's not something that's wrong with us. It's something that's very, very right with us. But at some point, we need to be able to have a release valve. (24:57 | Corban David Jenai)“We live in a world where a lot of the natural mechanisms for releasing what The hard things of the past, that's how I refer to it. Those don't have to become trauma. But when they are undealt with and there is emotional processes that have not been allowed to complete, particularly the hard ones, that can turn into a trauma, that can turn into trauma in our bodies.” (25:32 | Corban David Jenai)“It's better to start with purpose than profit. And just trust that if you start with purpose, and of course, don't ignore profit, we need that. But if we start with purpose, we can find our way to profit. And if you start with profit, you don't always find your way to purpose.” (40:11 | Corban David Jenai)“There's just lots of different ways that we can find ourselves in trauma, kind of an endless number of ways. However, the way that trauma can manifest in our lives, the kind of issues that we can have is, it is very common for people to be um, in, in fight or flight, for example, which means that we're, we're not using our executive functioning as much. We're really reacting instead of acting.” (10:57 | Corban David Jenai)Links:Connect with Welcome to Eloma:Instagram: @welcometoelomaWebsite: WelcometoEloma.comConnect with Kiley:Social: @kileypeters + Linkedin.com/in/kileypetersWebsites:

If you need the motivation to take the next step in your health and happiness goals, this is the episode for you! I sat down with one of our incredible clients, Jenai Finnigan, to hear about her inspiring 16-pound weight loss journey since joining the Maverick Online Coaching program. During the interview, Jenai gets real about overcoming her fear to investing in herself, and finding our simple yet sustainable approach to weight loss to be life-changing. In this episode, I discuss: [00:00] Intro[00:19] Maverick Online Coaching brand manifesto[02:25] Jenai's background and journey in the program[04:09] What made Jenai join the program[05:58] Jenai's initial fears around the program's price [08:39] Jenai's experiences working with coach Denise[13:03] How realistic has the program has been for Jenai[15:00] Overcoming fitness and nutrition misinformation on social media[17:38] Advice for someone hesitant about joining the program[20:01] How the program's community has helped Jenai[24:26] Closing remarksResourcesIf you wanna finally escape dieting culture and get body results that make your ex wish he never mistreated you, Click here for the Revenge Body Metabolic RevampFollow Maverick on InstagramJoin Maverick Online Coaching on FacebookFollow SLAE Hormone Solutions on InstagramWebsite for SLAE Hormone Solutions Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

****There's a moment at 8:14 where Jenai misspoke.  She said white supremacy isn't inherently racist.  She meant it isn't overtly racist. It is racist, but not always overtly so. Resources to share:Websites-doctrineofdiscovery.orghttps://dismantlediscovery.org/Books- (all by Native American authors)Unsettling Truths by Mark Charles and Prof Soong-Chan RahNative by Kaitlin B. CurticeLiving Resistance by Kaitlin B. CurticeFirst Nations Version of the BibleBecoming Kin by Patty KrawecRescuing the Gospel from the Cowboys by Richard TwissSo We & Our Children May Live by Sarah Augustine & Sheri HostetlerSupport the show

Episode Highlight With Corban David JenaiWhy he choose his own name and how it lines up with his storyHis incredible story and how it led to the work he does nowHealing through physiology and mythology and how using both approaches is helpfulWhat HopeGuide is and how it helps people find their own specific path to healingApproaches that help expand our nervous systems' capacity and increase resilience His definition of trauma: our interpretation of events that are stored in our nervous system and bodyOur bodies and our psyche are miracles of adaptation and our bodies are always on our side and trying to help usTrauma is a solvable problem and how he's helping to solve itResources We MentionHopeGuideHow We Heal PodcastHis Website - Corban David Jenai

Episode Highlights With Corban David JenaiHow we've exchanged depth of connection with breadth of connection and how this has affected our mental healthThe importance of leaning into the experience you have of another person in your own body and how this is transformationalThe importance of intuition and how to tune into itSo much of the wounds we've experienced in life are relational and often need to be healed in relationship with othersHow he learned to tune into his intuition again after years of ignoring it and even being hostile to itChildhood trauma can often lead to an ignoring of intuition and a mental pathway of assuming the abuser is correct because it's necessary for survivalHow this concept is especially helpful in our relationship with our childrenResources We MentionHopeGuideHow We Heal PodcastHis Website - Corban David Jenai

Episode Highlights With Corban David JenaiWe are each our own healer, and how to even begin the journeyHow he started his own healing journey and how some things like talk therapy actually seemed to make things worse at certain pointsNo one can know us as well as we can know ourselves and why we are the experts on ourselvesTherapy is a major intervention often made necessary by lack of a thousand smaller interventions along the wayHealing hinges on connection with our bodies, with each other, and with the ineffableWhat somatic experiencing therapy is and how it can help with reconnection to our bodiesDissociation is not a malady; it is a remedy and is there to tell us somethingHow spending over $300k helped him learn that it is often the simple and inexpensive things that can make the most difference over timeHis core, sleep, diet, and exercise strategies that helped his mental healthResting is investing!How sleep and a healthy diet directly influence the brain and mental healthEmotions happen within our bodies, and our bodies can give us a clue to healingHow lack of connection with others (true, deep connection) connects to mental health strugglesWhy are we more lonely now than we ever have been and what to do about itResources We MentionHopeGuideHow We Heal PodcastHis Website - Corban David Jenai

How do we differentiate between ADHD symptoms and trauma responses?  What strategies can parents employ to navigate these conditions? How can we provide a safe and supportive environment to be fostered at home? In this episode of the Soaring Child podcast, explore more about ADHD and trauma in children. Both ADHD and trauma manifest in ways that can impact a child's behavior, their emotional wellbeing, and their academic performance. It can also put a strain on families and the peace in their house.  Corban David Jenai is an entrepreneur, a speaker, an artist, and the Chief Hope Officer for Hope Guide, an organization committed to the cause of reducing the barrier of entry to trauma healing. Corban has built and sold four companies and traveled to over 80 countries with his wife and six children.   Link mentioned in the episode:  Book a free call with the ADHD Thrive Institute here: https://info.adhdthriveinstitute.com/meet    Key Takeaways: [3:24] Corban's personal experience with ADHD [5:31] Why Corban sees ADHD as his superpower [6:53] Why Corban became interested in trauma [8:50] How trauma and ADHD symptoms can overlap [11:03] How does trauma exacerbate symptoms of ADHD? [12:13] What constitutes a traumatic event? [17:04] Advice for parents who are helping kids work through trauma [21:40] Ways parents can give kids back their agency [23:41] Ways parents can help angry kids express their anger safely [25:14] How parents can create a safe, supportive environment for their kids [27:48] HopeGuide [30:54] Where to find Corban online Memorable Moments: “I view ADHD as a type of superpower. The things I experienced in my life, I didn't see them as negative. I saw them as positive.” ”When you call something a disorder, you're saying something is broken. I didn't feel disordered.” ”There actually is a way to transform the negative things that have happened into something positive.” ”A lot of the symptoms [of trauma and ADHD] overlap.” ”People who have PTSD are far more likely to also be diagnosed with ADHD.” ”Trauma is never the thing that happened. It's the way that our bodies responded to the things that happened.= ”One of the central things for something to turn into trauma is the ability or the inability to take action.” ”It's not the event. It's the response of the body.” ”Trauma is a solvable problem.” ”We tend to believe that some emotions are good and others are bad…The moment you say, ‘No, anger is bad,' you are teaching them that they don't actually have agency….that their reaction to an unjust event is itself unjust. And that is incorrect.” ”Giving room for those emotions to be expressed in a healthy way can go a long way.” How to Connect to Corban David Jenai Website: https://www.hopeguide.com/ Podcast: https://www.hopeguide.com/podcast    Dana Kay Resources: Website: https://adhdthriveinstitute.com/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ADHDThriveInstitute/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adhdthriveinstitute/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ADHDThriveInstitute  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/adhd-thrive-institute/mycompany/  Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.ph/adhdthriveinstitute/  Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@adhd_thriveinstitute  International Best Selling Book, Thriving with ADHD – https://adhdthriveinstitute.com/book/  Free Reduce ADHD Symptoms Naturally Masterclass - https://bit.ly/3GAbFQl  ADHD Parenting Course – https://info.adhdthriveinstitute.com/parentingadhd ADHD Thrive Method 4 Kids Program – https://adhdthriveinstitute.com/packages/  

Lara Rhame, FS Investments Chief US Economist, breaks down today's core PCE price index which showed that both inflation and consumer spending rose in September. Isaac Boltansky, BTIG Policy Research Director, predicts that the chaos in the House will lead to a shutdown later this year. Lisa Shalett, Morgan Stanley Chief Investment Officer of Wealth Management, says that we've entered within 50 basis points of a peak in rates. Poonam Goyal & Anurag Rana, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Analysts, discuss a big week in Big Tech earnings. Chris Marinac, Janney Montgomery Scott Analyst, expects banks to set aside reserves to build confidence going into 2024. Get the Bloomberg Surveillance newsletter, delivered every weekday. Sign up now: https://www.bloomberg.com/account/newsletters/surveillance      FULL TRANSCRIPT:     This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Lisa A. Bromoids, along with Tom Keen and Jonathan Ferrell. Join us each day for insight from the best in economics, geopolitics, finance and investment. Subscribe to Bloomberg Surveillance on demand on Apple, Spotify and anywhere you get your podcasts, and always on Bloomberg dot Com, the Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg Business App. We're waiting for the PC data. We're joined by Mike Nicky Aron the Deak. So we're waiting for the personal spending, the deflator. Mike, will it be disinflationary? Roll of the dice, that's the question. We're waiting for the numbers to come down on the Bloomberg Terminal. Well, I got about four seconds until that happens. But the ideas we may get a little more disinflation. Let's find out from the Bureau of Economic Analysis, and here come the numbers. And we'll start with the inflation numbers. They come in hotter than anticipated, up four tenths of a percent. I don't know month over a month basis. For the headline, the core comes in up a three tenths which is about what was expected, although there was some leaning towards maybe a little lower number year over year. Now we see the PCE headline number at three point four percent, that's down from three to five, and the core comes in at three seven, down from three to nine. Both of those expected. All the people who like to dive into all those numbers and figure out what actually changed will be with us in a few seconds. Personal income up three tenths. That's lower than the prior month of four tenths gain, but also lower than what was anticipated a four tenths gain. Spending up seven tenths, I mean not strong. On the back of that, on the back of that GDP and the connginut well, this number is in the GDP because this is a September number. It was the third month of the quarter, so he kind of sort of backed out the numbers and anticipated that this would be fairly strong. We were up four tenths the prior month. The question is now do we continue to see that spending happen, Because if incomes are falling behind and they have been the spending levels over the last couple of months, that would suggest that maybe there's a pullback ahead. Now I'm not the expert here. There's one more there is, indeed, La Rain chief economists out with us this morning. First take, I think that we continue to see inflation coming down, but it's still uncomfortably It's still unacceptably high from the point of view of the Fed, and I think the conversation as we go into next year continues to the options for the Fed continue to narrow because if inflation stays about where it is and it's going to take a long time for it to get closer to too, their room to maneuver should the economy slow at all, is going to be very narrow. And look by these numbers, it looks like the economy is just still incredibly strong. We know that from the GDP numbers that we already got, but I mean the spending has just by the households that has defied every expectation of it to slow, and it's accelerated so much in the third quarter. That's what's extraordinary. I think savings rate comes in a three point four percent. People have been watching that for some indication of whether or not they're going to run out of money in the American consumer. It's down from four percent and it's been a steady decline. But historically, before the pandemic, we used to say people spend what they make. They don't dip into savings the way people tend to think they do. And so if that's the case, then there's more of a case now for maybe a slow down. People don't have as much to dip into if they wanted to, but they're also not making as much as they were. Well, I had johnat Henry with me this morning from HSBC and she said, actually Americans are more likely to dip into their savings and spend, spend, spend right to the very end. But I want to bring you an idea from UBS, which is Paul Donovan, where he said, you know, when we go to write the history of twenty twenties, do not bet against the headonism of the US consumer. It's very rich. I love it. I mean, there's a there's a brilliant wine place in London called Hedonism Wines. Whole other story the hedonism. You can tell us that later. I could tell you that later, but I want to understand from you laya the hedonism of the US consumer. Is that real or do you think that runs out of mileage as well. Next sure, listen, he's got a point. That's a really colorful way to put it. But that's what the third quarter felt like. Between the headlines about the concerts, Yeah, all of that, and then and all everyone who followed. I think, you know, people seem to be looking for that next experience and looking to pay whatever is required to get it. You know, this issue of savings has gotten so complicated because we of course have the excess savings that accumulated during the shutdown. Is that more you know, bucketed with these you know sort of now the highest quintile of quartile of household that sort of maybe aren't going to spend them as much. We know that that access savings is run out for a lot of the lower you know sort of strata. The other seventy five percent of us, we're not in that upper quintal. I think as we think about it, people, the normal people, I think, and yet you know, we just see the strong job growth I think reinforces the foundation of the household, and we just see this reacceleration is really unexpected in terms of your hedonism. Example, here services spending went up eight tenths whereas goods spending went up seven tents. There was always a story about people switching away from goods, but they still seem to be spending a lot on goods. Services don't go into the retail sales numbers that we got earlier this month, except for bars and drinking places fitting your theme, but eight tenths of a percent to gain for services pretty strong. So it looks like people were spending money during the third quarter on all sorts of things. I do think there's an interesting dynamic here, which is that if you look at consumer confidence, it's still well below where it was before the pandemic, and that's, you know, despite strong growth. So can you tie those two together. You know that the consumer confidence is being a little bit battered, but the spending it remains unabated. To me, it really, I think inflation is something that is still really casting a long shadow over the household, because you know, when I'm not here, I'm the mom at the grocery store and I've got one bag of groceries and it still cost me ninety five dollars and I can't figure out what's in it, you know, So I think you know this idea that your over year inflation is coming down, but the sticker shock is still a very real and present pain point to household budgets. And Coca Cola are raising prices, and Netflix are raising prices, and there are a Whole and Apple TV they're raising prices as well, and we are moderately immune to those. Do you know that you'll still order a Coca Cola? You'll still order You'll still order your Netflix movie. Mike Well, I was looking here to see if we get super Core. I haven't got that number pulled out yet, but that's the one that the Chairman of the Fed says he likes the most. See if we have that number calculated yet, because you got to take out and then the CPI number that had risen the most since you know, about a year, so it had. I think that's going to be a key piece of today's report too. Well, just looking at the bond market, it's virtually flat. I mean four eighty five is where we are on tenure government bonds. So there's a sort of a flat, sort of unknown entity within the bond market. Let's just check in on equities up for tenenths of one percent again, you've got an Amazon recovery and nice kicker there. It was up six percent at one juncture, giving a little bit back. You're looking at ten year years, just still incrementally rising. This morning at four eighty five, we just had Bmo in Lingen here with us saying look, the next three weeks will define where the endpoint is for the bond spike. Use oil is up one point ninety three percent this morning. Again there's more geopolitical anks with military action in Syria from the US side, and that has brought again a geopolitical bid back to the oil markets. But personal income rises zero point three percent. The estimate was for plus point four percent, So Mike this the takeaway from this is the core price index rises to three point seven percent, pretty much in line with the estimates. We're seeing disinflation, I mean O creative inflation is slowing down. It's not slowing down as perhaps fast as people would like. And to Lar's point, especially about the being the moment at the grocery store, prices go up at a slower rate, but they don't come down. So you're paying more for a lot of staples and they're going to just stay at that price. And so people look at that and they're still experiencing inflation, even if inflation is not as bad as it was before. What what happens then to this view in the market that we're going to get right cuts into twenty twenty four does not debate change. It's got to continue. The FED, I think now has to just continue to ring rate cut expectations out of that future's curve. I feel like this is the deal with the devil right now, because if you had told me that we were going to have GDP growth of almost five percent and the FED was not going to cut rates again, I would have just not believed that was a possible outcome. But FED future's markets are not pricing in another rate cut. Markets seem very convinced the Fed is done. And I think the only way that works is if we continue to get this drift higher in long term yields. And there's a room for that because today markets have seventy five basis points of rate cuts priced in for next year, So if the FED is going to kind of stay on hold, there's room for that to continue to come out, for long term rates to continue to move higher. How do you think they look at this in the Fed? In the Fed might give you look at this the top line is pce is it a four month high consumer spending picks up. It doesn't leave them that huge optionality to be very very dubbish, does it. They can just sit on this at the moment because they forecast in September, the last time they did forecast that we would see PCEE core at three point seven percent at the end of the year. Well, I'm with there bang on where we are. So most economists think with a couple of months to go, we're going to come in below that. So the Fed could argue its targets are being hit. And you mentioned Ian Ling, and he had a great note this morning about how we're starting to see more impacts from higher FED rates and that is slowly getting into the economy and we should see more. So the Fed is probably going to sit there and say what we're doing is working. We're at a level where inflation is still coming down. We don't have to go up more right now with all this uncertainty out there about what's going to happen. Well, and unless inflation is a nine percent there really is no emergency reason to raise rates. That's usually you know, not a thing. So they you know, to your point, they have the time and yet. To me, this increase in long term interest rates is the reason that they can be patient, and that is going to continue to sort of pump the brakes on activity. You know, when I look ahead at next year, my forecast is for slower growth. I think these higher interest rates have actually increased the chance of a recession, not decreased. Is that slower growth? No landing, soft landing, not hard landing. I think it has to be as soft landing. I still feel like there is very real risk of recession next year, and we cannot discount that. But all the reasons why we've been saying it might be a mild recession could also mean that you just end up with some sluggish growth. So, Mike, as we go to the close of the year, what's the next piece that you're going to hang your hat on in terms of dead We've got Michigan at University of Michigan. Yeah, I don't think that's going to move the needle a whole lot. But I think what we are going to focus on is all the data next week, particularly the ISM numbers and then jobs at the end of the week. The Fed meets on Wednesday, so they won't have the jobs figures, but at this point to get an idea of where they're going to go, and nobody is less than a two percent chance they do anything on Wednesday, but nobody expects that. But the question is then what happens January December, January, and the jobs report will contribute to that. That's what will be joining us is Isaac Boltanski, director of policy research at BTIG. Can you give us a sense, to Isaac, of just what kind of leader Mike Johnson is going to be? Can he find some sort of consensus within a very fractured party. I think the simple answer to that is now. I think I think that there are lots of folks who are breathing this deep sigh of relief because now there's someone with a gavel and we can begin handling the people's business again. But when you take a step back, you've got to see that the House Republican caucus is still deeply fractured. It's not clear how well they're going to be able to govern going forward. There's no semblance of bipartisanship anywhere on Capitol Hill, and frankly, Lisa I think that people are downplaying the risk associated with a prolonged government shutdown. I still think that is distinctly possible because we are nowhere, and I mean this nowhere when it comes to figuring out a way to fund the government and deal with all the supplemental funding requests that have been sent from the White House. There's a lot to impact there, and a lot of people have pushed backed against that and said that actually, the fact that we have a speaker makes it less likely that we will have a government shutdown. Are you disagreeing with that? Are you saying that basically this is just a window dressing over a pretty big fracture fissure in the Congress. In Congress, though, the unknown right now is how much of a honeymoon speaker the new speaker is going to get. But my sense when you start to look at some of the specific issues here and really hone in on things like Ukraine funded, or you take a step back and you look at the fact that we haven't even agreed on overall spending levels, I think it's incredibly difficult to believe that that this group is going to be able to easily avert a shutdown. My base case is that we are going to see a shutdown later this year. I don't think that's going to be a massive market moving event, but I do think that the getting the gabble to Speaker Johnson has lessened fears in the market, and that that's unfounded at this point. So the President wants a total of what one hundred and sixty two billion dollars from Congress across Ukraine, Israel, supplemental spending, et cetera. How contentious is this going to be? How much of a flashpoint is this going to be? Will it all be cojoin? Will it just be a great dissipation of this request. So first and foremost, they haven't even agreed on basic funding levels yet, right, so we're not even at a point of agreement over the normal funding levels, and that's going to be the fight for the next few weeks when we then dig into the supplementals, where you do have over one hundred billion in different ass I think that there is clearly political support for things like funding Israel and supporting Israel and it's battle with Hamas. I think that fourteen billion dollars is very likely to get done. There's clearly support for more money at the US southern border. I think that that's bipartisan and by Camel on Ukraine, it's going to be a little bit tougher. And note that this is something that the News Speaker has actually fought against in the past. Last night he did suggest that there is a way to move forward on Ukraine funding, but that they're going to have to be conditions attached to that. No one knows what those conditions are yet. Put it all together, and I think that there is a way forward on this spending package. I just think that we're going to have to go through the same type of pain that we were seeing before when Speaker McCarthy lost the gap. How long do you think this speaker lasts or do you think he is there for the duration? So what of the first things he's going to have to do is try to get rid of that motion to vacate which pulled Kevin McCarthy out of the chair. I think that this speaker has a decent runway to get into first quarter of next year at a minimum. My conversation suggests that there's a real focus on at least getting to April of next year. As a reminder, that's when the one percent across the board. Budget cuts will go into effect if Congress does not pass the twelve appropriation spills. So I think that that's the date that a lot of people have circled on their calendar just trying to make it to that point. So, Isaac, how do you deal with the fact that you are in a situation where the interest that the government has to pay continues to go up? Where does that fall in these budgetary arguments? No one seems to talk about it, but it's on the rise. So if we can't cut the budget at all to do what we want to do, how are we dealing with spending that we now are compelled to do. That's one of the most frustrating parts of the past three weeks is that we weren't talking about the real issues. We weren't talking about the thirty three trillion in debt, we weren't talking about the two trillion deficit we're running this year. We weren't talking about the seven hundred billion dollars it costs US just this year to fund our deficits. And so I think that I remain deeply disheartened because we're not having those conversations, and more broadly, no one, no one, No one cares about the deficit when they're in the majority. They only care about the deficit when they're in the minority. And so until we see something that shocks DC tou to the point where it's forced to think about the debts and deficit differently, it's going to be status quo business as usual. How do you force someone to take a look at their own balance sheet and say, your payment next year is going to be double what your payment was this year, and you couldn't afford your payment this year. Why do we not? Why is that not part of the conversation. I know nobody wants to have it when they're in the majority. Nobody wants to not spend because everybody wants they get there, has a million things they want to spend on. But it's sort of like no one is dealing with the elephant in the room, no pun intended, which is the fact that we've got all this spending that still has to come through on this And I find that particularly frustrating in general. So I just how do we get to that conversation? You should run for office, come on down here and try to try to figure it out. But look, We're going to have a real, real fight over this with the Trump tax cuts expiring. You've got trillions of dollars in tax cuts that are coming due in twenty twenty five from the expiration of the Trump tax cuts, and I think that that could be a forcing mechanism for a broader conversation, but it's going to depend who's in power, right and sot. The next hurdle is to understand who's ahead in the elections. How much is Jennet Yellen's idea the mainstream that yields are going to go back down once we get past this blip, and that higher yields in the US is not a reflection of deficits but really just a reflection of how strong the US economy is. Is that the main idea and belief in Washington, DC. It's the hope of many on Capitol Hill. I don't think that there is anyone who has a firm feel for where yields are going, surely not on Capitol Hill. But it is definitely the hope at this point that everything will fix itself. Because our politics are so broken, they're unable to fix the problems, and so there is a hope that that's the direction that's going, Lisa. But I don't think anyone has a firm feeling one way or the other. Hope is not a strategy. I just keep thinking about that. Isaac Boltanski of BTIG, thank you so much for being with us. Joining us now is Lisa Shallatt CIO at Morgan Stanley Wealth Management, And Lisa, I just want to start with have we sold off enough? Because I know you've been bearished, particularly on tech. Has this been a big enough sell off for you? Look, we're not interested in getting in here unless you're a trader. What we, you know, tend to point our clients to is being investors, being long term investors. And you know, our perspective is going has been that we're going to continue to trade in this bear market range, which is where we've been for two years. I mean, people have to pull out their telescope and look at where we've been. You look at the s and P five hundred. We were here in the summer spring of twenty twenty one, and so you know, this is a trader's market right now. We don't think we break out of this range of somewhere around forty two forty five hundred really until the middle of next year, and that's when the fog clears on whether or not we're really going to see growth reaccelerate or we're going to see us you know, probabilities of recession increase. And we've been in the camp that we're going to be in that second scenario where next year economic growth, particularly in the second half, disappoints. I mean, look at the third quarter GDP, we're doing nominal eight percent. What kind of a cop year over year is that going to be in the second half next year. It's a great point. You said that this is a trader's market when it comes to equities. Is it also a trader's market when it comes to bonds. You've been bullish on longer term bonds at a time where there's a feeling that maybe this selloff has legs and actually is fundamentally driven, including by how much the US has to finance. Yeah. I mean, look, our perspective is that we are probably within fifty basis points of a peak in rates, and that having clients begin to embrace this market lock in some of these coupons with the potential for rates on a cyclical basis to reset, creates a double digit return with a third of the volatility. So again, as as as UH you know investors, we think that that the buy and hold on some of these bonds UH is a good value proposition. But I think here too, there's a lot of volatility, and that means you've got to be a trader if you're going to be uh, you know, in this market looking for returns on the month or on the quarter. Lisa, good morning, it's manas. I think that's one of the most honest interpretations. You're not prepared to step and buy into this market in a trading market that we've heard in quite a while. But there is the other side, which is you either view that you've got to build some kind of defense, and I'm drawn to your view that you want real assets and you want gold. Gold is nearly a two thousand dollars and so are you actively adding more real assets than if you're not convinced on pure equity. We are adding and encouraging folks to add some real assets here. I mean, one of our themes has been that, you know, the equity markets in particular are just not pricing real risk premiums. And you know, one of the things that has, you know, given us has been heartening to us is the fact not only are we getting higher real rates in the bond market, but that there's a term premium that suddenly people realize that in a new inflation and in a new interest rate regime where the FED is going to be data dependent, there is lumpiness and there is uncertainty over time about how that data is going to come out. Add in all the geopolitical dimensions to what's going on right now, the dimensions of dysfunction in Washington, d C. The fact we're rolling into an election year in the US where I think that the headlines and the developments are going to be extraordinarily volatile. Our view is that real assets, things like commodities, things like real estates, things like energy, infrastructure assets could really, you know, be a source of protection here in stability in portfolios. We just had in Lincoln here from BMO. We talked about a number of different things that could drive the bond market, term premium being one, fiscal deficit's being another. He thinks that the peak, the peak spike in rates could be over the next couple of weeks. Would you agree with that, and if so, what part of the bond market. Would you like to take a portion off or add to if you're adding real commodities, what would you add in duration? Yeah, we're we're looking at Our perspective is that the best value right now is really intermediate, somewhere between four to six. We're finding some value in sevens in the treasury market in fact, but we're looking at investment and great corporate, so you know, we're taking the treasury yield and taking some of that spread. We do believe that there are quality balance sheets out there that can service you know, these coupons. So we're we're enthusiastic that the middle of the curve could produce double digit returns over the next you know, twelve to eighteen months. Lisa, I'm curious about this really different reaction when it's come to this geopolitical these devastating geopolitical events. Normally we would see US yields plunge in the face of this, and we had that reaction. But you know, you blinked and you missed it. We're right back up again. Does that represent a more fundamental reassessment of treasuries as a risk free asset? You know, you were going into this government shutdown again, an episode which historically has given us lower yields, and we sort of shrug it off. Is this time going to be different because people are fundamentally reassessing the dollar as a flight to quality and the result treasures. Yeah, I mean, I love that you're bringing up this issue. I mean, this is one of the issues that we talk about with our clients all the time because it is our sense that something fundamental is going on and that the appetite for US treasury debt is different this time. Clearly, you know, the market is readjusting to not having the FED as a price and sensitive buyer, right, we know that, and and QT is certainly a weight here. But you know, you look at what's going on among Japanese investors. They're facing the realities of a tough currency compare and really tough hedging costs in terms of their ability to buy treasuries in the size that they have been buying really over the last decade. The geopolitical dimensions of this, you know, historically, we know China has has been a big buyer given their you know, trade balances and foreign currency reserves and US dollars. Uh, there's a lot of complexity UH, and a lot I believe to question about why we haven't seen that flight to safety UH manifest as it historically has in US treasuries. I do think that this is something we need to watch and study and really think hard about about whether or not something is changing and whether the US treasury market is vulnerable to geopolitics for the first time, maybe since World War Two. Lisa Chalatte Morgan Stanley Wealth mentioned it is clear cut that when people are spending on clothes, Amazon does well. But that seems to be what we experienced yesterday in the Earth, straining us now to really pass through it. Anor A Karana and Punam Goyle of Bloomberg Intelligence covering the tech and the retail side of things. Anag, I want to start with you, are we basically just learning that Microsoft is taking the lead when it comes to cloud computing and Amazon and Google are falling behind. See I'm a big fan about Microsoft's down over the years, but I would not say that they are leading here. I would just say that in the Genai, you know, Frenzy, they just have a leg up because of their relationship with open Ai. But Amazon is still the biggest cloud out there. They have more, yeah, I would say revenue than anybody else. That's partially the reason why their relative growth rates are not as strong. But last night's comments on the conference call were so positive and I think that's what's driving the stock up here. Before that, the stock was flat, and you know, it was just the positive I would say body language of the management team that you know, the cloud bottom may be here for them. Okay, who's got the strongest who has the strongest cloud offering, and who will win the most market share? Well, Amazon's far bigger in terms of you know, revenue, the revenue boundard is closer to ninety billion dollars compared to Microsoft, which is closer to sixty billion, and with Google somewhere around twenty four to twenty five billion. So Amazon's clearly the leader with the biggest network and biggest footprint. But let's bring you into the conversation here. This has been a brutal week. At one junction, we lost two hundred billion dollars in market cap of some of these biggest and most loved, most owned stocks in the US. As you go to the close of the week, there was a brutalization of stocks that disappointed on Clyde, But the one thing that stood out to me is that there are these tech companies and they are raising prices. How does that play into your thinking? Yeah, I think on the retail side, Amazon actually has done a great job in maintaining its share and even growing it. You know, when you talk about raising crisis, do then in flee. I think it's quite the opposite at Amazon. You're actually seeing them push forward low crisis, especially on those deal days that they have, like Prime Days, and that's driving the consumer spend. We're expecting Amazon to use it scale and speed to really push the pedal on prices even more as we go through the holiday season, and that's going to drive consumers to their platform, allowing them to go gain share over competitors. Plunum advertising revenue has been growing at a double digit clip based on what two hundred million global Prime subscribers were able to get an early WED on that Prime Video ads edition. I think the ad edition is going to take time to build right now. The bulk of that advertising revenue is driven from the retail side, and I think that's really key here that's going to continue to climb. And remember that advertising is a much more profitable business than the retail business and even the cloud business. So as that business scales beyond fifty billion, which it's trending to right now, it's going to drive the bottom line for Amazon. And that edition of the ads that you're talking about, I think that's just icing on the cake. I mean, that's really going to also help build revenues for Amazon and allow customers to choose do they want the ads or do they want the content without the ads where they would have to pay attlefore that. And you're right, we've now digested earnings from Alphabet, Meta, Intel, IBM, you name it. You know, what are the primary takeaways from you from three third quarter performance? I think if we are not very close to the bottom, you know, we have probably a quarter or two away, and I think that really sets up well for a big rebound in twenty twenty four. And I think this was the biggest fear that we have that what's going to happen beginning of next year with geopolitical conditions getting worse. And I think last night's results and even Microsoft's comments give us some hope that things are not as bad as you know, you know, people are making out to be. It does raise a question though, about the differentiation on rog within the cloud space, within the AI space, and whether companies are being reward for investing in some of the AI intelligence AI programming that could make a lot of money. Did you get the sense that Amazon was rewarded more on that front than Google. See. One of the biggest thing I think it's the scale matters now, And you have to remember most enterprises around the world fortune two thousand companies are going to experiment with this technology over the next twelve to twenty four months. Who are they going to go to. All these companies have the building blocks for people to experiment, So I'm not saying one's going to win over the other. All three of them are going to get their fair share of revenue from the clients. The problem is on the other side, they actually don't have enough GPU capacity to go out and build some of that AI workloads or training models and other things. But I'm fairly confident that over the next twelve for twenty four months, all three of them are going to see some benefit from Jenai. Who's got the ability to deliver the best margins. You note that revenue grew by twelve percent of aws, but the margin jump by third thirty percent. Who else is at thirty percent or beating that? Or is that where the aspiration is to deliver stronger margins? Is that part of the buy thesis. So one of the things we have talked about, think about all the three companies in the long run. Now the long run could be five years or ten years. These businesses have potential to grow operating margins north of forty percent. Now that's the reason why we say that is if you look at you know, processing companies and other things, when they reach maturity stage, these are highly scalable business Once you you know, go through the cycle of capax, you don't really require that much money to maintain them. We are confident in the the long run all three of them will have great margins. The other two companies don't really disclose it at the cloud level, at that infrastructure level, but to that extent, I mean, I mean, frankly, alphabet is still losing money in their cloud portfolio. But there is a lot of different things that go into that. Put on what's the takeaway that we've gotten in terms of these earnings about how much retailers in the US continue their hedonistic tendencies. Yeah, I thank you for the retailers. It's going to be mixed. As we moved through holiday, there is going to be clear winners and losers. And we do think that the consumer is really focused on value and that trend isn't going away for the holiday season, so they're going to have to suction the pedal on price and inventories aren't as high as they were last year, so it's really going to depend on their ability to bring product in to drive demand and really keep prices well the holiday season. Un I'm Gail on our grounda both of you. Thank you so much for being with us. One aspect of the market that's kind of flown under the radar is the regional banks in particular, especially as we talk about the big banks and the successors and all of that, and we could see that so far you're to date the BKX, the KBX KBW index is down twenty five percent, close to the lows that we saw during the crisis back in March. Now is Chris Marinac, director of research at Jenny Montgomery Scott. And I know Chris that you've been really bullish on the banking sector and I want to get your take on what you make of the selloff that has persisted. Well. I think, Lisa, there's been some continued struggles about the fears of credit quality getting worse in twenty twenty four. I think that there's been some passive flows against the banks. I've heard of a lot of folks shorting the KRX and the KRE and then going along in the Nasdaq one hundred, So that has been a challenge in terms of incremental selling. I think to some extent, the banks are not sexy here and they're not doing anything from a growth perspective that causes investors to dive in. And I think most of the fun flows has been to other growth areas and other areas that are kind of avoiding anything that's economically sensitive and perhaps recession recession proNT So have you gotten less bullish on this area because we have seen a bit of underperformance versus expectations, particularly in the regional space, and there isn't a clear pathway to growth. Well, the stocks have an opportunity to trade back to forty five to forty seven on the KRE. I think the question is can we get investors to pay attention to what really matters, which is cash flow. The operating cash flow for most banks is only down about ten percent from the August estimate's pre third quarter earnings, and so I think the other ninety percent of PP and R is actually very strong to allow banks to earn through the cycle on credit issues and anything that comes their way. I think their capacity to absorb losses is extremely good, and that's one of the reasons I've thought the stocks have opportunities to do better. I don't think we'll go back to where we would have been on the KRE pre Silicon valley, but I do think we can be better than we are, and I think we have to get through this recession discounting that the market is doing at the moment. Yeah, we are pretty obsessed with the recession dis kind in it just hasn't come home Durus yet, Chris good Morning. Provisioning was something that stood out for me as being on the low side in this reporting season. Of course, if there is no dramatic slow dying and there is no hard landing, then that's all justified that The acinting reason, do you think twenty twenty four is going to be madred by an increase a material increase in provisioning, and if so, word does it hurt the most. So I think that the provisions will rise in twenty four primarily because I think charge offs will go up. We have a lot of companies who are writing off fifteen to twenty basis points of charge offs, which is very very low. So going back to thirty or forty basis points for most mid sized banks is normal. I think your large national companies probably right off between forty five and fifty, so that's a little higher than the forty range that they are today, So that will cause provision to rise. I think generally most banks are going to set aside reserves to kind of build confidence with themselves. Clearly, the accounting on SECOIL has led banks to actually limit their reserve growth this quarter, less than I would have fought. I think to some extent it is driven by unlimited balance sheet growth and also the Moody's forecast that a lot of banks use has actually pushed out the recession, and that is also tamped down the reserve calculations. I mean, you think the consensus is obviously JP Morgan just keeps getting bigger. It's just like this juggernaut that just swallows everything and moves everything out of its way. You've listened to the conference calls, You've listened to a couple of these CEOs. Who's under most pressure in the banking sphere? I know I have my target list, But who do you think is under the most pressure as the CEO at the moment? Well, I think there are regional banks who have capital ratios that are depressed when you take the mark to market for all securities, both for the available for sale and held the maturity, So that issue has to be resolved. I think to some extent, banks will work out of their issues on their own because securities are going to start maturing in four and twenty five and to some extent these marks start to flatten out. We don't have to see FED policy chains for the marks to get better. I think somebody think that some of the payoffs of securities coming due at maturity will help. I think the pressure is on the regional banks who are going to have these new FED accounting rules, which basically means who ratios are lower than they're reported, And even though it's phased in over a three year period, the market just perceives that they have to adopt those capital rules today, so to some extent, I think we have to fight through that. The good news is the banks are profitable, they can pay dividends. There's no changes happening on some of those major items like common and preferred dividends. So I think the attitude for the investors should be better than it is. But I think the pressure is really on the regional banks where the definition is changing on capital. I do think will work through it, but that continues to be the pressure point at the moment. So does that mean that we have to extend the BTFP and do you believe that they will extend that we don't have to extend it. It It would be nice to extend because it simply takes one issue off the table. The use of BTFP has been very limited. It's hovering around one hundred and nine billion for weeks and weeks, and so the banks who have used it have used it. Some may renew if given the opportunity, but if they don't, I don't think it's a big problem. It would be nice to do that. It would be nice to have some FDIC deposit insurance reform to be able to buy insurance on uninsured depositors. I'm not sure the FDIC is going to go there, so that would be my thought on that. So it sounds like the regional banks have a maturity profile that's not as dire as I think some of us were worried about. But I think about some of the assets that are sitting there. Are the regional banks kind of stuck like utilities where I'm in a flat yield curve, so I don't have a lot going on there. I have some things I may have to write off, but I just don't see a lot of growth ahead of me. And they don't have the diversification of some of the money center banks. Well, I actually think the diverse location is actually very good. I mean, you have office real estates very limited, even commercial real estates very limited. Within the C and I space, there's a lot of different mid size and small businesses that regional banks and even community banks do and provide a great service for that. The economy is healthier than I think folks realize. But even if it changes, the ability for companies to earn through is very good. What we see happening is actually less balance sheet growth but more turnover old loans that are at low yields, renewing at high yields. A new loan today is going on the books at eight percent, and that actually is very attractive, and it's going to cosset the mix to shift on netatrist margin. We think margins may actually bottom in the first quarter, if not sooner, and that will help the stocks. I think catch a little bit of a bid. Chris, just real quick here, final word on Ted Pick the idea of some of the succession at Morgan Stanley. Is it significant in terms of the direction of that bank or do you think that it's basically going to be a continuing of the guard. Well, the investment banking business is the highest margin business of these large international firms, so it didn't surprise me at all that he was the choice. I think that his leadership inside the company has been very well thought of for a long time, so it seemed to make sense. I think to some extent they want to put the best foot forward, not to be negative on the wealth management space, because it's certainly a huge driver. They picked up a lot of new customers from the First Republic failure in April and May, so there's a lot happening there. But it seemed to be kind of continuing on the investment banking Angela Chris Marrinac of Jenny Montgomery Scott. Thank you so much. Subscribe to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live every weekday starting at seven am Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can watch us live on Bloomberg Television and always on the Bloomberg Terminal. Thanks for listening. I'm Lisa Abramowitz, and this is BloombergSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jeremy Stretch, CIBC Head of G10 FX Strategy, breaks down the European Central Bank's decision to leave interest rates unchanged. Lindsey Piegza, Stifel Chief Economist, discusses the US economy's fast-paced growth in the last quarter. Ed Mills, Raymond James Washington Policy Analyst, says the US won't face a government shutdown in November after Congress elected a House Speaker. Mandeep Singh, Bloomberg Intelligence Sr. Technology Analyst, says AI will be a key focus for Big Tech going forward. Michael Nathanson, MoffettNathanson Sr. Research Analyst, says 2024 will be a year of consolidation in the streaming market.Get the Bloomberg Surveillance newsletter, delivered every weekday. 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 This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keene, along with Jonathan Farrow and Lisa Abramowitz. Join us each day for insight from the best and economics, geopolitics, finance and investment. Subscribe to Bloomberg Surveillance on demand on Apple, Spotify and anywhere you get your podcasts, and always on Bloomberg dot Com, the Bloomberg Terminal, and the Bloomberg Business App. Jeremy Stretch of CIBC as he considers these headlines, not much movement in the market. I've got ero one oh five forty, Jeremy. A key question to me is simple, and that is the idea of what two percent means. These are different economies, different nations. Do you look at it as two point zero percent? Is the ECB Bundesbank hope two point two percent while the FEDS two percent is two point eight percent? Well, of course, the Eurozone is a difficult beast to manage, and I think President Leguard is very mindful of that because, as we've touched upon, there is a very different degree of performance and activity in a number of the different economies across the zone. Now, the Eurozone and ECB is aiming to get back inflation to that two percent target threshold over the medium term. I think it was notable that obviously inflation in September did fall a little fast and the ECB had been expecting. And as I say, I think the next meeting in December will prove to be particularly instructive as we get forecasts out to twenty twenty six for the first time, but also looking at those longer run inflation expectations and if those are back towards the two percent threshold in aggregate across the whole of the zone, and that of course is the difficulty. We will still get divergence in the individual nations, but as an aggregate measure, the ECB is going to be aiming to get back to that two percent target threshold over the course of the next two years. Jeremy, I'm going to go to a wonderful moment I had with the August and here from Leon Jean Claude Trichet, and he talked to me about transmission, the diffusement of an economy across borders. Europe doesn't have the transmission mechanisms of America, do they. Well, there is obviously one of the inadequacies of the Eurozone project is the you know, the difficulties on the fiscal side on a relative basis that the US obviously has because the US has the you know, the federal system, and we do get that disperse into federal funds across the fiscal dynamics. So we are in a situation where the plumbing, if you like, in terms of the Eurozone economy, in terms of monetary and fiscal policy is very diverse because of course fiscal dynamics, and that's still much more at the behest of national governments. But I think the other interesting dynamic to consider as we move into twenty twenty four is that the Eurozone is thinking about bringing back those fiscal thresholds that were put on or suspending during the COVID period, and that will be an interesting dynasm to add to the rinkle about fragmentation risk, and that of course is one of the big concerns that the ECB has to be mindfulwed even if prisident, Legard will try and downplay any concerns at this particular Poet, Jeremy Stretch, thank you so much. October thirty, Apple to announce new MacBook pros I should say Lindsay Piaggs is pleased with that because as she ran her Excel spreadsheet on the American economy at burn Up or MacBook a couple days ago, Doctor piags it joins us now from Stifel as well. How hard is it to put together an Excel spreadsheet with the mysteries of this American economy. Well, it's typically difficult, but it's become increasingly difficult with all of these ancillary factors that are coming in that are virtually impossible to model. We do have a lot of international factors that are impacting the market's expectations. We do have now unprecedented fiscal variables that we're trying to account for. But I think right now the market is very much discounting that third quarter number, focusing onstead on the latest central bank decisions the BOC the ECB as a proxy for what to expect from the Fed next week, suggesting that developed central banks around the world, despite still elevated inflation, are starting to pull back in anticipation of a slower level of longer term growth. So the market very much anticipating the Fed maybe moving to the sideline for certainly a prolonged period of time, but maybe indefinitely at this point. So, lindsay, just to crystallize what you're saying, are you saying that the Fed can kind of look through what we're getting out of this blowout GDP print, or at least that's the market's expectation. No, that's the market's expectation. But remember the market has been preemptively calling an end to FED rate hikes for the past two years and wrongly pricing in rate cuts. The Fed, however, has been very clear beating drum of higher for longer, very consistent in their message, and I think when we look at some of the underlying data in the Q three report, the resilience of businesses, the resilience of the consumer, and yes, to Lisa's point, we have seen a little bit of an uptick in claims, particularly continuing claims, but broadly speaking, the labor market is still extremely tight. So the FED is looking at all of these data juxtaposed with inflation that's still too high. I think the Committee is going to have a very difficult time selling a prolonged period of a pause. I think there is still more work to be done before they reach a sufficiently restrictive level to ensure that we remain on a disinflationary trend back to two percent. Well, Linda, you're getting of what I've been wondering about. Of course, this is a very binary question, and we live in a shades of gray world. But when you think about the just raft of numbers that we got this morning, you take a look at to blow out GDP print, but then you look at initial jobless claims a little bit higher. What's the stronger signal there? Which one should we be focusing on? Oh, the consumer, certainly, And I understand that this is backward looking, but remember claims are extremely volatile, and we don't want to look at one data point, but rather the underlying trend in claims, which is still extremely low, still signaling that tight labor market or tight labor market conditions, which is going to continue to perpetuate the ability for upward pressure on wages, extending that to further purchasing power for the consumer in the marketplace, suggesting again the backbone of the economy, the underlying support of the economy, i e. The consumer remains resilient. There's been a real angst to underpinning some of the recent sell off in the bond market. The longer end that hasn't been tied to the Fed at all. It's been tied to a widening deficit and likely increasing spending. How much is the FED going to find itself increasingly at odds with fiscal spending because you talk about the need potentially for the Feds do more. How much is the strength that we're seeing in the gd preprint tied directly to that government spending. Oh? Absolutely, this is one of the problems when monetary policy and fiscal policy are moving in opposite directions, that's going to force the Fed's hand to take an even firmer position to counteract that expansion of government outlays. Now, we do know that federal stimulus has largely concluded, but there's other fiscal stimulus that's coming down the pipeline as a result of legislation that was passed over the last twelve to eighteen months, be that infrastructure spending, the IRA, the Chips Act, and other spatterings of state and local stimulus that is still being spent on constituents. So there is still a lot of purchasing power, a lot of borrowing and investment power out in the marketplace that the FED is desperately trying to drain out of the system. But again, the more that we see monetary and fiscal policy moving in opposite directions, the more that becomes a barrier for the FED to achieve its goal of price stability. Lindsay. A lot of people are writing in. They're saying that I didn't really have a right to be confused because it's core PCE. When you look at the actual inflation, yes, you're seeing growth, but it is disinflation stare you are seeing a reduced pace of growth when you strip out energy and food. How much credence do you give the idea that we got in this gdpreprint a core PCE read two point four percent. Is that the sort of number to hinge off. It's certainly encouraging, But again, when we look at some of the other data metrics, when we look at headline pc when we look at the headline CPI, we're not seeing this clear downward trend of disinflation. Now, of course, monetary policy is not based on headline price pressures. We strip out those volatile food and energy composedonents. Lindsay piigs a stiff very near her good conversation with US year Edward Mills. Hugely experienced. He is at Raymond James with far more has legit committee, an individual congresspeople's skills in Washington, particularly working with Maloney of New York ed Mills. This new speaker the uproar that I hear, and yet your research note says he can drive to the center. How does the gentleman from Louisiana move the Republicans to a doable center. I think it's going to be a tough task. I think Tom the thing that I am most focused on with the news speaker is how quickly at the end it happens. In DC things appear impossible right up until the moment it's inevitable. So having a unified Republican caucus is not something we would have thought. But the big question in my mind is this is a speaker who has not been vetted, and as he is vetted, how does he come out of that vet? What type of narrative about his leadership? And I think what we're talking about is for him to keep that, for him to keep the seat, for him to be able to govern. Do you need to find the middle, because what we've seen is that the fringe does not support many legislative packages, and that's paralysis. Help me with the sequence here. Course before Kart is November seventeenth and a government shut down prior to the defense allocations you mentioned, the first task of Senate House House Senate is well war funding if you will. Is that going to be before November seventeen? I think it's kind of a toss up between the two. I think to start with the November seventeenth deadline, Tom, we're not going to have a government shut down. It looks like we are going to punt government funding either into January or maybe as far as April. But in doing that there will be the conversation about defense funding. The President has sent up to Congress a robust supplemental package, and what we're hearing is the Senate will want to have a strong, by hardistan vote on that, trying to put pressure on the House, not differentiating aid for Ukraine from Israel or Taiwan. So how do you understand the fact that Mike Johnson has made a real important issue of his cutting the deficit, and yet there are all of these requests to finance some pretty big military expenditures. How much is that going to be a sticking point that makes it uncertain whether we get this aid across. We were speaking earlier with John Lieber of Eurasia and he was saying, we're going to get it passed. Are you as confident? I am confident that will get something passed. I think that the big question is timing in the scale of this, Lisa. When you go back to some of the other pushes to become speaker, this was probably most out in the focus during the push for Jim Jordan. The only way some of the defense hawks within the Republican Caucus who were willing to support him and the expectation is the only reason why they're willing to sport Johnson was that they needed to get a guarantee on a robust defense bill extra defense funding in the Defense Authorization Act before the end of the year. That group is far greater than the ord needed to keep that speakership. So if he wants to keep that speakership, he's been against that Defense aid in the past, and especially voted against Ukraine aid, but the geopolitical environment's very different now in his political position is completely changed and ed to do all that. You made the point that Johnson really needs to find the middle here. But if he doesn't, I was speaking to Henrietta Treys Yester and she made the point that the Senate is still functional. That's the saving grace because at the end of the day, the House will do what the Senate tells it to do. You agree with that logic largely. I think when you see the Senate, if they pass something with eighty ninety votes, it's not a politically tenable position not to even have a vote on that in the House. And if you were to have a vote on something that ascid with eighty or ninety of one hundred votes in the Senate, in the House is near guaranteed to have a majority go to the president's desk. And I do think Johnson has a little bit of leeway here where he doesn't have the baggage of some of the previous ones. So some of the first fights, which will be government funding and defense funding, he's not necessarily going to get blamed for the position that Republicans are in because he's new to the job. Hey, you know, Ed Mills, I look at this. I was taking ann Rey hoard in three to zero two, which is advanced Civics lessons inside the Beltleigh, and I guess every speaker has a lot of power. Is he going to blow up the leadership of the Republican Party or is he going to attach himself to, say the hockey player from Minnesota and the others. Well, I think he's going to attach himself to the majority leader. I think i'd go back to the last time we had a speaker that no one really had heard of, which was Speaker Hasser. And you have the most empowered majority leader of in decades with Tom Delay when you saw him have the press constraints and there was some booze by Virginia Fox. What I was watching is Steve Scalise, the majority leader from his state of Louisiana, was standing right behind him and told him exactly what he said. He said, next question, let's talk about policy. Then Mike Johnson said, next question. So he is a lockstep with the current majority. And that is the Edmills perspectives. It's so valuable with Raymond James, Edmills, thank you so much. Meta shares not diverging from the rest of the complex, shares falling after the company warned a quote uncertain revenue outlook for next year. This was the dominant narrative, even though the tech giant beat expectations on third quarter revenue. All of this dashing hopes for a long term recovery in the company's advertising business. It's spending, though aggressively in other areas and artificial intelligence and virtual reality. It raises this question, you know, what are people hinging onto just this hope of uncertainty or expectation of uncertainty that we all know just Instagram? You know, it's just Instagram. It's it's what Storm's doing over at Instagram plus six classics, mandeep sexy technology analytics through Instagram and Go. That's a short Bloomberg Intelligence joining us. Now, Mandy, what does it tell you that they came out with really good earnings at least on the fundamental basis that they say that there's uncertainty and that they share sell off. Well, so I think they gave a pretty broad guidance thirteen to twenty four percent for next quarter. When you see that sort of white guidance, you know, you know the company is not sure and they didn't have that sort of uncertain guidance on the expense side, So they said reality labs losses would mount, and I think fear that company is really feeling the investors is not giving them markers around what they're actually doing. I mean, losing fifteen billion dollars a year on reality labs and not telling what you are investing in. Because we know Apple has a new virtual reality headset. It didn't take them fifteen billion dollars to make that headset. So clearly they are investing in something that nobody knows, and I think that's the uncertain How is AI different for Zuckerberg than AI is different for Google where AI is different for Microsoft, So there is an overlap between Google and Meta's version of AI versus Microsoft's and microsofce corporate. I got to get a job done. Let's go Yeah, and what's Meta's AI is? You are consuming Instagram feeds, Facebook feeds, I mean the average user is, and so how can AI enhance that experience both for the consumer as well as for the creator who's creating content for the feed? And AI can offer you a lot of tools to generate images based on text description. So there's a lot that AI can do in messaging, think of customer service, you know WhatsApp, so this AI and Instagram. I don't buy it AI and Amazon this afternoon. What is Josie going to spin on AI? Amazon? I mean amazonal story hardboard box is about compute training the models. Everyone wants these GPUs to train their large language model. They're buying AI from Microsoft. I saw that ten days ago or so, right, Yeah, well they are upgrading their three sixty five on Prime version to Microsoft. So completely lost. And so that's the thing about the generative AI wave that it is quite broad and every company can use it in different ways. Some companies are focusing on training models, some are focused on inferencing use cases. And you don't even know what this is, Cady. It feels like a Morcan mindy skip. You know, Robin Williams is going no, no, no, no. I just everybody's got a different definition of AI or I guess they're trying to play for a different part of this large pie that everyone sees with generator. Save me. Let's talk about something we all know. Let's talk about the cloud business at Amazon. Of course AWS. You saw sales growth there slow to a record low in the second quarter. We know that the cloud business was why Alphabet had such a bad day yesterday. What are we going to see out of the cloud business at Amazon? I mean, the good thing is expectations are lower for Amazon, and we're talking about mid teen's growth for AWS, and yes, it has the largest base in cloud, but everyone perceives them to be behind with generative AI workloads. That may not be the case, and so there is room for an upside as long as they prove to the street that you know, they are catching up with Jenai and offering the compute that everyone needs to train their models and not to go back in time. But you think about what happened at Alphabet, I mean, I'm just stuck on the share price move yesterday down almost ten percent, worst day since March twenty twenty. Is that an overreaction? Was it that bad with Alphabet? It definitely feels felt like an overreaction, simply because the search business actually did remarkably well, and unlike Meta, which continues to see ad pricing declined, Alphabet saw an ad pricing increase, which is a positive sign. It's an auction mechanism, so advertisers are bidding up for your ads. And there was talk about uncertainty yesterday around the Middle East war and everything that will draw down the advertisers spending. But clearly Alphabet had a positive print on the search side and the cloud side. Really the expectations were too high, So I think that's where Amazon may have an advantage going into the print. I want to try to understand the psychology of the investor base in some of these tech names, because it's been shifting over time and we've seen that. What are we learning about what the key triggers are going to be to buy and what the key triggers are going to be to sell after the games that we've seen so far this year. I mean, look, the cost of capital is going up, and so I think the days of spending fifteen billion dollars a year on moonshots are probably gone even for larger companies, as long as they keep deliver bring you know, twenty percent plus growth meta for Meta. Everyone is okay with them spending on reality labs. The moment that growth decelerates, that's when that fifteen billion dollar loss really becomes a sticking point for free cash flow. Is that the reason why you expect things for Amazon to be positive because they have that infrastructure AWS, which is the major player in the cloud space, they have that revenue coming in, they have Tom Keynes offspring buying lots of boxes. How much is that really going to play into a positive that could offset some of the negativity that we're hearing from the likes of ups this morning. Clearly, I think everyone believes that, you know, digital transformation, generative AI. These are secular trends, and right now, I think for Meta to spend thirty billion dollars in capex and not have a cloud business or something equivalent is also sticking out because that could have been a key source of diversification for them. This is an arch question. Do you and Anna rod Rana see the cloud business? I have no idea what I'm saying when you see the cloud business? Is it a classicdopoly or triopoly or can there be a set you know, number five sixty seven players. I just don't buy it. I mean, right now it's a triopoly and Oracle actually is investing a lot in building it's cloud investing. But do you believe people can grab share and come down and make a fundamental free cash flow generation or is it going to squeeze into a triapoly? No? I think you can, because right now the compute. Nature of compute is changing, so it's not CPUs consumed on the cloud anymore, it's GPUs, different types of accelerators, different types of databases, and that's where if you don't have a legacy business, which Microsoft does, I think Google has an advantage. Amazon has an advantage that they don't have a legacy business, and that's where they can keep building that Joining us right now, John Fair on assignment, Kavin Greifeld with us this morning. Michael Nathanson joins. This is senior research analyst at Mofatt Nathanson on a pluthor of things. Lisa, why don't you drag in Nathanson here on Facebook because you know the story better than I do? All right, Michael, thank you for joining us. I want to start with the one note of caution that really drove all of the price action. They came out and said, we don't know what's going to happen. What else is new advertising? Who knows? Oh my goodness, the stock fell. How realistic is this or instructive of what we can expect in the year to come. Yeah, I was disappointed by that fact that the market took that comment around with him. These guys just put up twenty three percent AGROTH in a quarter and a year ago. People were thinking this business was dead, right, all the momentum is behind them. They called out a little bit of choppiness because what's happening in the Middle East. But I don't think it was that big of a deal. I mean, their guidance is still pretty strong, So I think this is This is an amazing story in terms of Tom and T Mobile. This could be. This could be the second story. People have just underestimated the strength of a business model. The recover it has been amazing. There's been a lot of There's been a lot of questions though around just in general the online advertising business, especially at a time where all of the content creators are facing off with consumers that really don't like advertising and are willing to spend to avoid it. How much are we seeing with respect to consolidation of market share at the likes of Meta at a time when Google also saw an increase in ads bend despite their cloud issues. What does that tell us about the overall market versus just consolidation with the leaders? Okay, big picture, those two companies, the growth rates of Meta and Alphabet are back to where they were in early twenty two. So if you remember the past couple of quarters, there's all kinds of worries about e commerce slowing. It's getting better about changes to Apple's IDFA system that's been fixed. So it says to you like the market's actually really healthy and that you're seeing kind of the structural tailwinds and online gaming discontinue. Right. We had a very tough compare in twenty twenty two that's now behind you. So I felt pretty good about the health of this business with the scale. Prayers for a snap for a Twitter go luck to you. It's not going to happen, you know. Michael math is a congratulations. Netflix has done a double. It's off Mark Mahaney. What's he know? He's going up another one hundred dollars on Netflix review for us, the winner of streaming is Netflix and a Microsoft equivalent, even at thirty eight times earnings. It's a good question, Tom. It's different than Microsoft because you don't have the operating leverage you know, longer term, right, so you have to keep investing in content. The great thing about software models is that incremental margins are massive. Once you build it, you get the benefit of scale. In media for the most part. In the streaming model, you have to keep an investing in content, so they'll have margin leverage, but nowhere near the same margin leverage of what we saw last night with Meadow or Microsoft. So but in streaming there a winner. It's because it's such a tough business for everyone that's not in Netflix right now. So it's really there's one winner. There's Disney, and then there's everyone. Disney's not even a winner yet, and they're going to just churning cash flow to get your attention. Yeah, I mean, you know, I just brought up the Disney chart. You know, I just do we do this for Michael Nathanson, folks to give him, give him a little bit of angst here on a Thursday morning, Michael Nathans and Disney is back to twenty fourteen pricing. Help yeap, When does it turn You've been wrong, wrong, wrong. It's been like the New York Yankees. It's a disaster. I say, when does thank you? When does Disney Chern? Can? I say? Upgraded? When Bob Eyer came back in ninety bucks And it's just been painful to me. So thank you Tom for reminding me it's good, so we do about it. It's got exactly and sell and sell houses in the suburbs. So here's what here's what I think is going to happen. Twenty twenty four is a year of they have to consolidate Hulu and Disney plus margins and streaming or negative netflixes are in the twenties. To me, it's about streaming profitability in twenty twenty four, and they have to get who in house, which is going to happen by hopefully the end of the year. So I've a lost hope in Disney. I think that is again, I think this is your meta in twenty four. I mean a year ago people were killing the stock, and I think that Disney could be a great stock in twenty four, but you need to get streaming margins up to a level that people start caring about, which is gonna take some time. Well, Michael, it's really interesting to hear this conversation because you're still a buy on Disney. Okay, it could be a great stock in twenty twenty four, But to meditate a little bit longer on your Netflix comments, you're still neutral on the stock. What would bump you up to a buy bump m to buy would be to have earnings numbers because evaluation to Thomas point to me is it's pretty full. Look at it versus Google, Alphabet or Meta. To me, it's having faith and numbers that are above consensus. And I think we all have the same numbers now we pretty much a model with the companies told us there's no way to doubt it at this point, So you know, pretty much we're just debating multiple at this point. I don't think people have a real edge on earnings. And our numbers pretty much were consensus. We're at Meta and other names. We've been above consensus and that's been our call. You know. We we have conviction that numbers are wrong. To the upside, we will get very aggressive about the buy rating. And when it comes to Netflix and the streaming business in general, how does Netflix maintain market share here? Does that really all just come back to the content slate? Well, it's interesting. You know, when they built their business, they borrowed other people's content, and we were writing for many years and that was a dumb idea. So they would rent the office, they would rent friends. Given the state of media, you're starting to see evidence that they could go back to renting other people's content, which is a very cost effective way to build a business. So what can happen longer term is that they could blend from making all these originals, which is a much tougher business, to renting people's movies and TV shows and given and again the state of media companies, that can happen. You know, I don't think Disney will do that, but you know, Warners, Paramount, you know, NBC Universal talked about licensing more content. Michael, what do you expected to hear after the bell when we get Amazon earnings, particularly around the acquisition of content having to do with sports. NFL the last sort of death now for cable, Right, So Mike Morton covers Amazon for us. He's very bullish on next year's margin opportunity. They're going to be looking at the NBA. Right, So the NFL has gone well for them, The ratings are up in a really strong amount this year, and the NBA is the next big package for grabs, and there's a good chance that they can get a slate of games, you know, getting out Tuesday or Thursday night games. So I think they're going to tell you that, Look, it's going well you see this as a chance, to your point to really distance remediate cable networks thein thing. They're going to go for it. So you know, Amazon to us is is really in the second or third position behind ESPN for getting the next set of big rights. Here for Sports Award winning Michael Nathanson was just decades of good good news is here. Subscribe to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live every weekday starting at seven am Eastern. I'm Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. You can watch us live on Bloomberg Television and always I'm the Bloomberg Terminal. Thanks for listening. I'm Tom Keen, and this is BloombergSee 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Jenai is a writer, artist, Filipina woman who holds stories and makes space for others. She addresses the cultures of marginalization and how we can better set the table for people on the margins. I asked her to join our table to discuss how we set the table for others, but our conversation really dove deep into why we separate ourselves from, or even tear down, people who are different from us. Tune in to hear Jenai share... About her upbringing and how she's navigating her identity as a Filipina woman What "othering" means and looks like; including an example of how we may "other" someone unintentionally How we can all be better stewards of our privilege and influence She has a book on the intersection of faith and othering that comes out next year! A Longer Table Podcast is hosted by Manda Carpenter and sponsored by: Aro - code MANDA for your first month free at https://www.goaro.com/ ABLE - code ALONGERTABLE15 for 15% off all apparel at https://able.sjv.io/c/3929645/1228242/15174

If you are around or in conversations about mental health for much time at all, you probably hear the word trauma used relatively often. And if you are in or around conversations at the intersection of mental health and religious life, you'll probably hear the phrase church trauma, or religious trauma used, at least as regularly. Those conversations can be really tricky, can be really difficult, and also can be really necessary. Some of the most helpful voices in those conversations, at least that I've come across, aren't even necessarily folks trained as therapists or even working as pastors. Some of the most helpful folks in conversations about church trauma are those who have experienced it, have done the work in their own hearts, minds, and communities, and then are speaking back into some of those spaces, not even just correctively. But both correctively and compassionately, a lot of what I've enjoyed and benefited from with regards to Janai Auman's work is that posture that she's remarkably articulate, and she is abundantly clear about the places lines have been crossed about the abuse of power in church leadership. She is also speaking from a place of hope. I really enjoyed this conversation with her, and I think you will as well.Check it out. Links for Jenai AumanWebsite - https://www.jenaiauman.comInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/jenaiauman/Links For Justin:JustinMcRoberts.comSupport this podcastNEW Single - Let GoNEW Music - Sliver of HopeNEW Music - The Dood and The BirdNEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)Amazon Barnes and Noble It Is What You Make itHearts and Minds Amazon Barnes and Noble 

This is a rerun of an episode from April 2022. Amy will be back with a new episode next week. In the spring of 2022, a sermon clip from a prominent pastor was shared widely on social media. In it the pastor had some pointed things to say about those talking about unhealthy churches and Christian leaders. Is speaking up like I'm doing here “dogging” on the church? Jenai Auman, writer and advocate for spiritual abuse survivors joins me for this conversation and later in the episode, author Mary DeMuth shares about her new book The Most Misunderstood Women of the Bible.  Links: Jenai Auman on Instagram Sign up for Jenai's Substack Mary DeMuth's book: The Most Misunderstood Women of the Bible: What Their Stories Teach Us About Thriving Mary DeMuth's Instagram Ryan Ramsey tweet thread: Ryan Ramsey on Twitter: "*Long(!)Thread* This is not a new observation but I'm reminded of it in the wake of Bethel Church events in the last week +: Fans/members/devotees of beloved faith communities are highly susceptible to adopting a belief in the ‘inherent goodness' of that community.

Jenai Lane has been seeing and talking to spirit guides and angels since she was a child. While this might seem like a special gift to you and me, Jenai says everyone has access to information from the invisible realms. To quote the Beatles – “All you need is LOVE.” Once you're able to tap into your innate being, which is pure love, the answers you've been waiting for come naturally. Jenai's book, “What Would Love Say?” can be used as a guide to help you do just that.In this episode you'll hear:Simple ways to access messages from your spirit guides and angelsHow to tune out negativity in your lifeWhat you need to know right now to live a more loving lifeHow self-love will ignite all kinds of love in your lifeIf you enjoyed this episode and it inspired you in some way, we'd love to hear about it and know your biggest takeaway. Take a screenshot of yourself listening to the episode on your device, post it to your Instagram Stories, and tag me @debbiegisonni on Instagram and @debbiegisonnipage on Facebook. You can also watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Ham8DGdf-U0About Jenai Lane:Jenai Lane is the Founder of the Spirit Coach® Method, a non-dogmatic approach to accessing the spirit within. Through her gift of seeing and illuminating the Divine Self, she has helped thousands of people around the world transform their lives and awaken to their true nature. Jenai is the author of, What Would Love Say?, Spirit Led Instead: The Little Playbook of Limitless Transformation and Spirit Led Instead Playbook. She is a sought after intuitive, speaker and coach trainer. She also leads spiritual pilgrimages and retreats to sacred sites around the globe to activate the light within. Jenai is an award-winning entrepreneur who has appeared in media world-wide. Learn more about Jenai at SpiritCoachTraining.com. Connect with Jenai:Website: SpiritCoachTraining.comBook Webpage: SpiritCoachTraining.com/love Free Online Course: https://app.ruzuku.com/courses/5045/enroll Connect with Debbie:Website – Books, Online Courses, Podcasts: https://www.selfpowernow.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DebbieGisonniPage/IG: https://www.instagram.com/debbiegisonni/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dgisonni/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/DebbieGisonni

Become a patron of this podcast, and enjoy free merch. Join other patrons of this podcast at Patreon. **********Jenai Auman (pronounced jih-nEYE Ah-mun) is a Filipina American writer & artist in living in Houston, TX who writes on hope and faith for outcasts & misfits. Her work currently focuses on the woes of spiritual abuse and religious trauma in the church.Her recent writing and drawing on Advent for those who find themselves trying to make sense of a Western church riddled with abuse of power in its various forms, brings her to the podcast this week to share how her own journey has led her to walk alongside others in the sense-making of this moment in church history.Follow Jenai's writing, art and speaking at: www.jenaiauman.comOn Instagram at: jenaiaumanOn TwitterOn FacebookThe A World of Difference Podcast is brought to you in partnership with Missio Alliance.Join us to discuss this episode, previous episodes or for other thoughtful conversations at our Facebook group. We'd love to have you stop by and share your perspective. Stay In Touch: Connect on Facebook and Instagram with thoughts, questions, and feedback. Rate, review and share this podcast with anyone that would love to listen. Find Us Online: @aworldof.difference on Instagram and A World of Difference on Facebook, on Twitter at @loriadbr & on Clubhouse @loriadbr.https://linktr.ee/aworldofdifference or loriadamsbrown.comInterested in one-on-one or group coaching on how to live a life that makes a difference? Check out: https://www.loriadamsbrown.com/coachingBecome a patron of this podcast, and enjoy free merch. Join other patrons of this podcast at Patreon. Mentioned in this episode:PatreonSupport us at Patreon.com/aworldofdifference for as little as $5 a month and get exclusive audio and free merch!Coaching Sept 22Want to get unstuck and make a difference? Go to loriadamsbrown.com/coachnig for a free exploratory session.This podcast uses the following...

Lauren Jenai is the co-founder of the multi-million-dollar CrossFit enterprise, which continues to pioneer the health and wellness industry. Now a female powerhouse, the story of how she fell in love with fitness is both inspiring and all-too-relatable.    Growing up, Lauren always thought of herself as unathletic, but in her late 20s, she would be at her local gym every day by 5am, creating a consistent habit. Walking on the treadmill, cycling, and a few lifts were her routine; not all workouts are made equal, however, and for all her early mornings, Lauren had yet to witness any results. Sound familiar to you?   When her ex-husband Greg Glassman, the other co-founder of CrossFit came to town as an innovative personal trainer. Here is where Lauren's passion was sparked. His training sessions with Lauren became the predecessor for what we now know as CrossFit — the high-intensity mixed-modality training that is found everywhere in CrossFit gyms throughout the nation. Finally, Lauren had found a workout that “made her body feel awake and alive.”   All of Lauren's endeavors have been with one idea in mind: “Give people the resources and opportunity to be self-reliant.” After all, her story followed a similar path — and now she is a model businesswoman, fitness expert, and mother of four.

Lauren Jenai is the co-founder of the multi-million-dollar CrossFit enterprise, which continues to pioneer the health and wellness industry. Now a female powerhouse, the story of how she fell in love with fitness is both inspiring and all-too-relatable.    Growing up, Lauren always thought of herself as unathletic, but in her late 20s, she would be at her local gym every day by 5am, creating a consistent habit. Walking on the treadmill, cycling, and a few lifts were her routine; not all workouts are made equal, however, and for all her early mornings, Lauren had yet to witness any results. Sound familiar to you?   When her ex-husband Greg Glassman, the other co-founder of CrossFit came to town as an innovative personal trainer. Here is where Lauren's passion was sparked. His training sessions with Lauren became the predecessor for what we now know as CrossFit — the high-intensity mixed-modality training that is found everywhere in CrossFit gyms throughout the nation. Finally, Lauren had found a workout that “made her body feel awake and alive.”   All of Lauren's endeavors have been with one idea in mind: “Give people the resources and opportunity to be self-reliant.” After all, her story followed a similar path — and now she is a model businesswoman, fitness expert, and mother of four.

Go kick it with my friend in all her spaces hereSupport the show

Jenai Auman joins Amy Fritz to talk about why people stay in unhealthy faith communities or organizations and why people continue to support these institutions and leaders even when there are reputable sources reporting red flags. This is part 2 of the conversation that Amy and Emily Snook started last week. This podcast is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. For more information and for 10% off your first month, visit Faithful Counseling here: https://faithfulcounseling.com/untangled Other episodes you might like: Untangled Faith: 59: Why Do People Stay and Support Unhealthy Communities and Leaders. Guest: Emily Snook on Apple Podcasts 46: When Narcissism Comes to Church. Guest: Chuck DeGroat – Untangled Faith Podcast 51: Celebrities for Jesus. Guest: Katelyn Beaty – Untangled Faith Podcast Leave a review for the podcast: https://podcasts.app.com/us/podcast/untangled-faith/id1561001170 Subscribe to my newsletter: https://untangledfaith.substack.com Join us on Patreon: https://patreon.com/untangledfaith   Where you can find Jenai: Instagram: https://instagram.com/jeaniauman Substack: https://jenaiauman.substack.com   Where you can find me: https://untangledfaithpodcast.com https://instagram.com/untangledfaith  https://instagram.com/amyhenningfritz https://twitter.com/faithuntangled https://twitter.com/amyfritz https://facebook.com/untangledfaith Host/Creator: Amy Fritz Producers: Michelle Pjanic, Phil & Susan Perdue

Guest Bios Show Transcript What is it like to be a person of color in a predominantly white evangelical church? Does fitting in require someone to change their behavior, appearance, and speech? And if so, what does that say about the church? In this latest podcast, Julie explores these issues with Jenai Auman. Jenai is a survivor of spiritual abuse in an Acts 29 church.

Hello and welcome to another episode of the podcast - today I want to share with you some fun information about four Eastern European cookbooks being released this fall. This is from an article I read in the Wall Street Journal over the weekend. I've linked to all of the cookbooks discussed in the show notes below. And remind you that the Pan to Profit Swag Bag offer is still open until October 1st. The swag bag is a digital bundle of courses, workbooks, templates, and pieces of training put together by Jenai over at Pan to Profit to help cooks and bakers learn more about how to turn their love for cooking or baking into a business. To learn more about the swag bag and all the amazing digital products included head on over to the Pan to Profit website link linked below. Things We Mention In This Episode: Get in on the Pan to Profit Digital Swag Bag Action Budmo!: Recipes from a Ukrainian Kitchen - Anna Voloshyna Home Food: 100 Recipes to Comfort and Connect: Ukraine - Cyprus - Italy - England - And BeyondPierogi: Over 50 Recipes to Create Perfect Polish DumplingsTava: Eastern European Baking and Desserts from Romania & Beyond

Jenai Lane has allowed herself to follow her guidance and intuition, coming full circle, as she now lives her life knowing her purpose in this incarnation. She is the founder of Spirit Coach Training. An award-winning entrepreneur, intuitive coach and trainer, she certifies coaches in a method to be spirit-led. Her Spirit Coach® Methodology has been used for over 15 years with clients one-on-one, online, in retreat settings and to train master coaches. She is the author of Spirit Led Instead: The Little Tool Book of Limitless Transformation, The Spirit Led Instead Playbook and is a contributing author in the new book, Meditation; Intimate Experiences with the Divine through Contemplative Practices, which includes over 30 contributing authors sharing their experiences with the Divine. Jenai joins Sister Jenna to discuss her evolution from being a highly successful award-winning entrepreneur with appearances on national TV, and magazine articles written about her to a spiritual path and Spirit Coaching for others. Visit https://www.spiritcoachtraining.com. Check out Sister Jenna's new book, Meditation: Intimate Experiences with the Divine through Contemplative Practices. Listen to the Om Shanti album by Sister Jenna on Spotify. Visit www.americameditating.org and if you like this show, please subscribe and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts, so other people can find us.

Jenai Lane has allowed herself to follow her guidance and intuition, coming full circle, as she now lives her life knowing her purpose in this incarnation. She is the founder of Spirit Coach Training. An award-winning entrepreneur, intuitive coach and trainer, she certifies coaches in a method to be spirit-led. Her Spirit Coach® Methodology has been used for over 15 years with clients one-on-one, online, in retreat settings and to train master coaches. She is the author of Spirit Led Instead: The Little Tool Book of Limitless Transformation, The Spirit Led Instead Playbook and is a contributing author in the new book, Meditation; Intimate Experiences with the Divine through Contemplative Practices, which includes over 30 contributing authors sharing their experiences with the Divine. Jenai joins Sister Jenna to discuss her evolution from being a highly successful award-winning entrepreneur with appearances on national TV, and magazine articles written about her to a spiritual path and Spirit Coaching for others. Visit https://www.spiritcoachtraining.com. Check out Sister Jenna's new book, Meditation: Intimate Experiences with the Divine through Contemplative Practices. Listen to the Om Shanti album by Sister Jenna on Spotify. Visit www.americameditating.org and if you like this show, please subscribe and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts, so other people can find us.

Jenai Lane has allowed herself to follow her guidance and intuition, coming full circle, as she now lives her life knowing her purpose in this incarnation. She is the founder of Spirit Coach Training. An award-winning entrepreneur, intuitive coach and trainer, she certifies coaches in a method to be spirit-led. Her Spirit Coach® Methodology has been used for over 15 years with clients one-on-one, online, in retreat settings and to train master coaches. She is the author of Spirit Led Instead: The Little Tool Book of Limitless Transformation, The Spirit Led Instead Playbook and is a contributing author in the new book, Meditation; Intimate Experiences with the Divine through Contemplative Practices, which includes over 30 contributing authors sharing their experiences with the Divine. Jenai joins Sister Jenna to discuss her evolution from being a highly successful award-winning entrepreneur with appearances on national TV, and magazine articles written about her to a spiritual path and Spirit Coaching for others. Visit https://www.spiritcoachtraining.com. Check out Sister Jenna's new book, Meditation: Intimate Experiences with the Divine through Contemplative Practices. Listen to the Om Shanti album by Sister Jenna on Spotify. Visit www.americameditating.org and if you like this show, please subscribe and leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts, so other people can find us.

Today's conversation is with Jenai Auman. Jenai is a mom of two, wife to one, and book-owner of many. She is a prolific writer and blogger on "To till the soil", a resource for the ones who are grieving in the area of Christianity. She is also the creator of the wilderness forum, a private online community for those who are deconstructing or were harmed in Christian environments and advocates who listen. Jenai is a survivor of church abuse and makes it her mission to help people in similar situations. Jenai Auman instagram here Wilderness Forum here Patrion here --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/stephen675/support

A week ago a sermon clip from a prominent pastor was shared widely on social media. In it the pastor had some pointed things to say about those talking about unhealthy churches and Christian leaders. Is speaking up like I'm doing here “dogging” on the church? Jenai Auman, writer and advocate for spiritual abuse survivors joins me for this conversation and later in the episode, author Mary DeMuth shares about her new book The Most Misunderstood Women of the Bible. {00:03:35} Jenai Auman and the Wilderness Forum {00:08:15} Seeing institutional protection in faith communities {00:11:30} The cost of being an advocate. We didn't choose this. {00:16:06} The Evangelical Industrial Complex {00:20:51} The Exodus {00:24:31} The sermon clip that inspired our conversation {00:27:36} Are we expecting grace without offering it? {00:32:24} Are we still welcome at the table? {00:36:16} Wrap-up of our conversation regarding the MC video. {00:38:18} Sponsorship. The Ten Minute Bible Hour. Check them out here: link  {00:39:12} Mary DeMuth {00:46:30} Misconceptions about women in the Bible {00:50:05} Is this book just for women? {00:52:20} Healing in community {01:02:00} Speaking up v. being silence when there is a misunderstanding. Links: Jenai Auman on Instagram Sign up for Jenai's Substack Mary DeMuth's book: The Most Misunderstood Women of the Bible: What Their Stories Teach Us About Thriving Mary DeMuth's Instagram Ryan Ramsey tweet thread: Ryan Ramsey on Twitter: "*Long(!)Thread* This is not a new observation but I'm reminded of it in the wake of Bethel Church events in the last week +: Fans/members/devotees of beloved faith communities are highly susceptible to adopting a belief in the ‘inherent goodness' of that community.

We're back and the husbands have invaded the podcast.  Inspired by Nikki Giovanni & James Baldwin, we learn that Emond (Entrepreneur / State Farm Agent) is pretty sick and tired of hearing Jenai's entrepreneurial ideas. Zuri & Mike (Assistant Principal) discuss the importance of communication.  In listener letters, the guys say shoot your shot.  --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/plentyopinions/message

Ugh, Scorpios - Amirite? Jenai and Jermaine (Associate Vice President for Student Affairs at Southern Connecticut State University) support each other while Zuri and Tiffany (Postal Inspector for the Federal Government) gang up on them. Is it or isn't okay to be a petty betty? We may never know. In listener letters, not all baby names are good names.  --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/plentyopinions/message