Podcasts about Wesley Theological Seminary

BIO:The Reverend Dr. Starlette Thomas is a poet, practical theologian, and itinerant prophet for a coming undivided “kin-dom.” She is the director of The Raceless Gospel Initiative, named for her work and witness and an associate editor at Good Faith Media. Starlette regularly writes on the sociopolitical construct of race and its longstanding membership in the North American church. Her writings have been featured in Sojourners, Red Letter Christians, Free Black Thought, Word & Way, Plough, Baptist News Global and Nurturing Faith Journal among others. She is a frequent guest on podcasts and has her own. The Raceless Gospel podcast takes her listeners to a virtual church service where she and her guests tackle that taboo trinity— race, religion, and politics. Starlette is also an activist who bears witness against police brutality and most recently the cultural erasure of the Black Lives Matter Plaza in Washington, D.C. It was erected in memory of the 2020 protests that brought the world together through this shared declaration of somebodiness after the gruesome murder of George Perry Floyd, Jr. Her act of resistance caught the attention of the Associated Press. An image of her reclaiming the rubble went viral and in May, she was featured in a CNN article.Starlette has spoken before the World Council of Churches North America and the United Methodist Church's Council of Bishops on the color- coded caste system of race and its abolition. She has also authored and presented papers to the members of the Baptist World Alliance in Zurich, Switzerland and Nassau, Bahamas to this end. She has cast a vision for the future of religion at the National Museum of African American History and Culture's “Forward Conference: Religions Envisioning Change.” Her paper was titled “Press Forward: A Raceless Gospel for Ex- Colored People Who Have Lost Faith in White Supremacy.” She has lectured at The Queen's Foundation in Birmingham, U.K. on a baptismal pedagogy for antiracist theological education, leadership and ministries. Starlette's research interests have been supported by the Louisville Institute and the Lilly Foundation. Examining the work of the Reverend Dr. Clarence Jordan, whose farm turned “demonstration plot” in Americus, Georgia refused to agree to the social arrangements of segregation because of his Christian convictions, Starlette now takes this dirt to the church. Her thesis is titled, “Afraid of Koinonia: How life on this farm reveals the fear of Christian community.” A full circle moment, she was recently invited to write the introduction to Jordan's newest collection of writings, The Inconvenient Gospel: A Southern Prophet Tackles War, Wealth, Race and Religion.Starlette is a member of the Christian Community Development Association, the Peace & Justice Studies Association, and the Koinonia Advisory Council. A womanist in ministry, she has served as a pastor as well as a denominational leader. An unrepentant academician and bibliophile, Starlette holds degrees from Buffalo State College, Colgate Rochester Crozer Divinity School and Wesley Theological Seminary. Last year, she was awarded an honorary doctorate in Sacred Theology for her work and witness as a public theologian from Wayland Baptist Theological Seminary. She is the author of "Take Me to the Water": The Raceless Gospel as Baptismal Pedagogy for a Desegregated Church and a contributing author of the book Faith Forward: A Dialogue on Children, Youth & a New Kind of Christianity.  JennyI was just saying that I've been thinking a lot about the distinction between Christianity and Christian supremacy and Christian nationalism, and I have been researching Christian nationalism for probably about five or six years now. And one of my introductions to the concept of it was a book that's based on a documentary that's based on a book called Constantine Sword. And it talked about how prior to Constantine, Christians had the image of fish and life and fertility, and that is what they lived by. And then Constantine supposedly had this vision of a cross and it said, with this sign, you shall reign. And he married the church and the state. And ever since then, there's been this snowball effect of Christian empire through the Crusades, through manifest destiny, through all of these things that we're seeing play out in the United States now that aren't new. But I think there's something new about how it's playing out right now.Danielle (02:15):I was thinking about the doctrine of discovery and how that was the creation of that legal framework and ideology to justify the seizure of indigenous lands and the subjugation of indigenous peoples. And just how part of that doctrine you have to necessarily make the quote, humans that exist there, you have to make them vacant. Or even though they're a body, you have to see them as internally maybe empty or lacking or less. And that really becomes this frame. Well, a repeated frame.Jenny (03:08):Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And it feels like that's so much source to that when that dehumanization is ordained by God. If God is saying these people who we're not even going to look at as people, we're going to look at as objects, how do we get out of that?Danielle (03:39):I don't know. Well, definitely still in it. You can hear folks like Charlie Kirk talk about it and unabashedly, unashamedly turning point USA talk about doctrine of discovery brings me currently to these fishing boats that have been jetting around Venezuela. And regardless of what they're doing, the idea that you could just kill them regardless of international law, regardless of the United States law, which supposedly we have the right to a process, the right to due process, the right to show up in a court and we're presumed innocent. But this doctrine applies to people manifest destiny, this doctrine of discovery. It applies to others that we don't see as human and therefore can snuff out life. And I think now they're saying on that first boat, I think they've blown up four boats total. And on the first boat, one of the ladies is speaking out, saying they were out fishing and the size of the boat. I think that's where you get into reality. The size of the boat doesn't indicate a large drug seizure anyway. It's outside reality. And again, what do you do if they're smuggling humans? Did you just destroy all that human life? Or maybe they're just fishing. So I guess that doctrine and that destiny, it covers all of these immoral acts, it kind of washes them clean. And I guess that talking about Constantine, it feels like the empire needed a way to do that, to absolve themselves.Danielle (05:40):I know it gives me both comfort and makes me feel depressed when I think about people in 300 ad being, they're freaking throwing people into the lion's den again and people are cheering. And I have to believe that there were humans at that time that saw the barbarism for what it was. And that gives me hope that there have always been a few people in a system of tyranny and oppression that are like, what the heck is going on? And it makes me feel like, ugh. When does that get to be more than just the few people in a society kind of society? Or what does a society need to not need such violence? Because I think it's so baked in now to these white and Christian supremacy, and I don't know, in my mind, I don't think I can separate white supremacy from Christian supremacy because even before White was used as a legal term to own people and be able to vote, the legal term was Christian. And then when enslaved folks started converting to Christianity, they pivoted and said, well, no, not all Christians. It has to be white Christians. And so I think white supremacy was birthed out of a long history of Christian supremacy.Danielle (07:21):Yeah, it's weird. I remember growing up, and maybe you had this experience too, I remember when Schindler's List hit the theaters and you were probably too young, but Schindler's listed the theaters, and I remember sitting in a living room and having to convince my parents of why I wanted to see it. And I think I was 16, I don't remember. I was young and it was rated R and of course that was against our values to see rated R movies. But I really wanted to see this movie. And I talked and talked and talked and got to see this movie if anybody's watched Schindler's List, it's a story of a man who is out to make money, sees this opportunity to get free labor basically as part of the Nazi regime. And so he starts making trades to access free labor, meanwhile, still has women, enjoys a fine life, goes to church, has a pseudo faith, and as time goes along, I'm shortening the story, but he gets this accountant who he discovers he loves because his accountant makes him rich. He makes him rich off the labor. But the accountant is thinking, how do I save more lives and get them into this business with Schindler? Well, eventually they get captured, they get found out. All these things happen, right, that we know. And it becomes clear to Schindler that they're exterminating, they're wiping out an entire population.(09:01):I guess I come to that and just think about, as a young child, I remember watching that thinking, there's no way this would ever happen again because there's film, there's documentation. At the time, there were people alive from the Great war, the greatest generation like my grandfather who fought in World War ii. There were other people, we had the live stories. But now just a decade, 12, 13 years removed, it hasn't actually been that long. And the memory of watching a movie like Schindler's List, the impact of seeing what it costs a soul to take the life of other souls like that, that feels so far removed now. And that's what the malaise of the doctrine of Discovery and manifest destiny, I think have been doing since Constantine and Christianity. They've been able to wipe the memory, the historical memory of the evil done with their blessing.(10:06):And I feel like even this huge thing like the Holocaust, the memories being wiped, you can almost feel it. And in fact, people are saying, I don't know if they actually did that. I don't know if they killed all these Jewish peoples. Now you hear more denial even of the Holocaust now that those storytellers aren't passed on to the next life. So I think we are watching in real time how Christianity and Constantine were able to just wipe use empire to wipe the memory of the people so they can continue to gain riches or continue to commit atrocities without impunity just at any level. I guess that's what comes to mind.Jenny (10:55):Yeah, it makes me think of, I saw this video yesterday and I can't remember what representative it was in a hearing and she had written down a long speech or something that she was going to give, and then she heard during the trial the case what was happening was someone shared that there have been children whose parents have been abducted and disappeared because the children were asked at school, are your parents undocumented? And she said, I can't share what I had prepared because I'm caught with that because my grandfather was killed in the Holocaust because his children were asked at school, are your parents Jewish?(11:53):And my aunt took that guilt with her to her grave. And the amount of intergenerational transgenerational trauma that is happening right now, that never again is now what we are doing to families, what we are doing to people, what we are doing to children, the atrocities that are taking place in our country. Yeah, it's here. And I think it's that malaise has come over not only the past, but even current. I think people don't even know how to sit with the reality of the horror of what's happening. And so they just dissociate and they just check out and they don't engage the substance of what's happening.Danielle (13:08):Yeah. I tell a friend sometimes when I talk to her, I just say, I need you to tap in. Can you just tap in? Can you just carry the conversation or can you just understand? And I don't mean understand, believe a story. I mean feel the story. It's one thing to say the words, but it's another thing to feel them. And I think Constantine is a brilliant guy. He took a peaceful religion. He took a peaceful faith practice, people that literally the prior guy was throwing to the lions for sport. He took a people that had been mocked, a religious group that had been mocked, and he elevated them and then reunified them with that sword that you're talking about. And so what did those Christians have to give up then to marry themselves to empire? I don't know, but it seems like they kind of effed us over for eternity, right?Jenny (14:12):Yeah. Well, and I think that that's part of it. I think part of the malaise is the infatuation with eternity and with heaven. And I know for myself, when I was a missionary for many years, I didn't care about my body because this body, this light and momentary suffering paled in comparison to what was awaiting me. And so no matter what happened, it was a means to an end to spend eternity with Jesus. And so I think of empathy as us being able to feel something of ourselves in someone else. If I don't have grief and joy and sorrow and value for this body, I'm certainly not going to have it for other bodies. And I think the disembodiment of white Christian supremacy is what enables bodies to just tolerate and not consider the brutality of what we're seeing in the United States. What we're seeing in Congo, what we're seeing in Palestine, what we're seeing everywhere is still this sense of, oh, the ends are going to justify the means we're all going to, at least I'll be in heaven and everyone else can kind of figure out what they're going to do.I don't know, man. Yeah, maybe. I guess when you think about Christian nationalism versus maybe a more authentic faith, what separates them for youAbiding by the example that Jesus gave or not. I mean, Jesus was killed by the state because he had some very unpopular things to say about the state and the way in which he lived was very much like, how do I see those who are most oppressed and align myself with them? Whereas Christian nationalism is how do I see those who have the most power and align myselves with them?(16:48):And I think it is a question of alignment and orientation. And at the end of the day, who am I going to stand with even knowing and probably knowing that that may be to the detriment of my own body, but I do that not out of a sense of martyrdom, but out of a sense of integrity. I refuse. I think I really believe Jesus' words when he said, what good is it for a man to gain the world and lose his soul? And at the end of the day, what I'm fighting for is my own soul, and I don't want to give that up.Danielle (17:31):Hey, starlet, we're on to not giving up our souls to power.The Reverend Dr.Rev. Dr. Starlette (17:47):I'm sorry I'm jumping from one call to the next. I do apologize for my tardiness now, where were we?Danielle (17:53):We got on the subject of Constantine and how he married the sword with Christianity when it had been fish and fertile ground and et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, that's where we started. Yeah, that's where we started.Starlette (18:12):I'm going to get in where I fit in. Y'all keep going.Danielle (18:14):You get in. Yeah, you get in. I guess Jenny, for me and for you, starlet, the deep erasure of any sort of resemblance of I have to look back and I have to be willing to interrogate, I think, which is what a lot of people don't want to do. I grew up in a really conservative evangelical family and a household, and I have to interrogate, well, one, why did my mom get into that? Because Mexican, and number two, I watched so slowly as there was a celebration. I think it was after Bill Clinton had this Monica Lewinsky thing and all of this stuff happened. My Latino relatives were like, wait a minute, we don't like that. We don't like that. That doesn't match our values. And I remember this celebration of maybe now they're going to become Christians. I remember thinking that as a child, because for them to be a Democrat in my household and for them to hold different values around social issues meant that they weren't necessarily saved in my house and my way because they hadn't fully bought into empire in the way I know Jenny muted herself.(19:31):They hadn't fully bought into empire. And I slowly watched those family members in California kind of give way to conservatism the things that beckoned it. And honestly, a lot of it was married to religion and to what is going on today and not standing up for justice, not standing up for civil rights. I watched the movement go over, and it feels like at the expense of the memory of my grandfather and my great-grandfather who despised religion in some ways, my grandfather did not like going to church because he thought people were fake. He didn't believe them, and he didn't see what church had to do with being saved anyway. And so I think about him a lot and I think, oh, I got to hold onto that a little bit in the face of empire. But yeah, my mind just went off on that rabbit trail.Starlette (20:38):Oh, it's quite all right. My grandfather had similar convictions. My grandmother took the children to church with her and he stayed back. And after a while, the children were to decide that they didn't want to go anymore. And I remember him saying, that's enough. That's enough. You've done enough. They've heard enough. Don't make them go. But I think he drew some of the same conclusions, and I hold those as well, but I didn't grow up in a household where politics was even discussed. Folks were rapture ready, as they say, because they were kingdom minded is what they say now. And so there was no discussion of what was going on on the ground. They were really out of touch with, I'm sending right now. They were out of touch with reality. I have on pants, I have on full makeup, I have on earrings. I'm not dressed modestly in any way, shape, fashion or form.(21:23):It was a very externalized, visible, able to be observed kind of spirituality. And so I enter the spaces back at home and it's like going into a different world. I had to step back a bit and oftentimes I just don't say anything. I just let the room have it because you can't, in my experience, you can't talk 'em out of it. They have this future orientation where they live with their feet off the ground because Jesus is just around the corner. He's right in that next cloud. He's coming, and so none of this matters. And so that affected their political participation and discussion. There was certainly very minor activism, so I wasn't prepared by family members to show up in the streets like I do now. I feel sincerely called. I feel like it's a work of the spirit that I know where to put my feet at all, but I certainly resonate with what you would call a rant that led you down to a rabbit hole because it led me to a story about my grandfather, so I thank you for that. They were both right by the way,Danielle (22:23):I think so he had it right. He would sit in the very back of church sometimes to please my grandmother and to please my family, and he didn't have a cell phone, but he would sit there and go to sleep. He would take a nap. And I have to think of that now as resistance. And as a kid I was like, why does he do that? But his body didn't want to take it in.Starlette (22:47):That's rest as resistance from the Nat Bishop, Trisha Hersey, rest as act of defiance, rest as reparations and taking back my time that you're stealing from me by having me sit in the service. I see that.Danielle (23:02):I mean, Jenny, it seems like Constantine, he knew what to do. He gets Christians on his side, they knew how to gather organically. He then gets this mass megaphone for whatever he wants, right?Jenny (23:21):Yeah. I think about Adrian Marie Brown talks a lot about fractals and how what happens on a smaller scale is going to be replicated on larger scales. And so even though there's some sense of disjoint with denominations, I think generally in the United States, there is some common threads of that manifest destiny that have still found its way into these places of congregating. And so you're having these training wheels really even within to break it down into the nuclear family that James Dobson wanted everyone to focus on was a very, very narrow white, patriarchal Christian family. And so if you rehearse this on these smaller scales, then you can rehearse it in your community, then you can rehearse it, and it just bubbles and bubbles and balloons out into what we're seeing happen, I think.Yeah, the nuclear family and then the youth movements, let us, give us your youth, give us your kids. Send us your kids and your youth to our camps.Jenny (24:46):Great. I grew up in Colorado and I was probably 10 or 11 when the Columbine shooting happened, and I remember that very viscerally. And the immediate conversation was not how do we protect kids in school? It was glorifying this one girl that maybe or maybe did not say yes when the shooters asked, do you still believe in God? And within a year her mom published a book about it. And that was the thing was let's use this to glorify martyrdom. And I think it is different. These were victims in school and I think any victim of the shooting is horrifying. And I think we're seeing a similar level of that martyrdom frenzy with Charlie Kirk right now. And what we're not talking about is how do we create a safer society? What we're talking about, I'm saying, but I dunno. What I'm hearing of the white Christian communities is how are we glorifying Charlie Kirk as a martyr and what power that wields when we have someone that we can call a martyr?Starlette (26:27):No, I just got triggered as soon as you said his name.(26:31):Just now. I think grieving a white supremacist is terrifying. Normalizing racist rhetoric is horrifying. And so I look online in disbelief. I unfollowed and blocked hundreds of people on social media based on their comments about what I didn't agree with. Everything he said, got a lot of that. I'm just not interested. I think they needed a martyr for the race war that they're amping for, and I would like to be delivered from the delusion that is white body supremacy. It is all exhausting. I don't want to be a part of the racial imagination that he represents. It is not a new narrative. We are not better for it. And he's not a better person because he's died. The great Biggie Smalls has a song that says you're nobody until somebody kills you. And I think it's appropriate. Most people did not know who he was. He was a podcaster. I'm also looking kind of cross-eyed at his wife because that's not, I served as a pastor for more than a decade. This is not an expression of grief. There's nothing like anything I've seen for someone who was assassinated, which I disagree with.(28:00):I've just not seen widows take the helm of organizations and given passion speeches and make veil threats to audiences days before the, as we would say in my community, before the body has cooled before there is a funeral that you'll go down and take pictures. That could be arguably photo ops. It's all very disturbing to me. This is a different measure of grief. I wrote about it. I don't know what, I've never heard of a sixth stage of grief that includes fighting. We're not fighting over anybody's dead body. We're not even supposed to do it with Jesus. And so I just find it all strange that before the man is buried, you've already concocted a story wherein opposing forces are at each other's throats. And it's all this intergalactic battle between good and bad and wrong, up and down, white and black. It's too much.(28:51):I think white body supremacy has gotten out of hand and it's incredibly theatrical. And for persons who have pulled back from who've decent whiteness, who've de racialize themselves, it's foolishness. Just nobody wants to be involved in this. It's a waste of time. White body supremacy and racism are wastes of time. Trying to prove that I'm a human being or you're looking right at is a waste of time. And people just want to do other things, which is why African-Americans have decided to go to sleep, to take a break. We're not getting ready to spin our wheels again, to defend our humanity, to march for rights that are innate, to demand a dignity that comes with being human. It's just asinine.(29:40):I think you would be giving more credence to the statements themselves by responding. And so I'd rather save my breath and do my makeup instead because trying to defend the fact that I'm a glorious human being made in the image of God is a waste of time. Look at me. My face is beat. It testifies for me. Who are you? Just tell me that I don't look good and that God didn't touch me. I'm with the finger of love as the people say, do you see this beat? Let me fall back. So you done got me started and I blame you. It's your fault for the question. So no, that's my response to things like that. African-American people have to insulate themselves with their senses of ness because he didn't have a kind word to say about African-American people, whether a African-American pilot who is racialized as black or an African-American woman calling us ignorance saying, we're incompetence. If there's no way we could have had these positions, when African-American women are the most agreed, we're the most educated, how dare you? And you think, I'm going to prove that I'm going to point to degrees. No, I'll just keep talking. It will make itself obvious and evident.(30:45):Is there a question in that? Just let's get out of that. It triggers me so bad. Like, oh, that he gets a holiday and it took, how many years did it take for Martin Luther King Junior to get a holiday? Oh, okay. So that's what I mean. The absurdity of it all. You're naming streets after him hasn't been dead a year. You have children coloring in sheets, doing reports on him. Hasn't been a few months yet. We couldn't do that for Martin Luther King. We couldn't do that for Rosa Parks. We couldn't do that for any other leader, this one in particular, and right now, find that to beI just think it just takes a whole lot of delusion and pride to keep puffing yourself up and saying, you're better than other people. Shut up, pipe down. Or to assume that everybody wants to look like you or wants to be racialized as white. No, I'm very cool in who I'm, I don't want to change as the people say in every lifetime, and they use these racialized terms, and so I'll use them and every lifetime I want to come back as black. I don't apologize for my existence. I love it here. I don't want to be racialized as white. I'm cool. That's the delusion for me that you think everyone wants to look like. You think I would trade.(32:13):You think I would trade for that, and it looks great on you. I love what it's doing for you. But as for me in my house, we believe in melanin and we keep it real cute over here. I just don't have time. I think African-Americans minoritized and otherwise, communities should invest their time in each other and in ourselves as opposed to wasting our breath, debating people. We can't debate white supremacists. Anyway, I think I've talked about that the arguments are not rooted in reason. It's rooted in your dehumanization and equating you with three fifths of a human being who's in charge of measurements, the demonizing of whiteness. It's deeply problematic for me because it puts them in a space of creator. How can you say how much of a human being that's someone? This stuff is absurd. And so I've refuse to waste my breath, waste my life arguing with somebody who doesn't have the power, the authority.(33:05):You don't have the eyesight to tell me if I'm human or not. This is stupid. We're going to do our work and part of our work is going to sleep. We're taking naps, we're taking breaks, we're putting our feet up. I'm going to take a nap after this conversation. We're giving ourselves a break. We're hitting the snooze button while staying woke. There's a play there. But I think it's important that people who are attacked by white body supremacy, not give it their energy. Don't feed into the madness. Don't feed into the machine because it'll eat you alive. And I didn't get dressed for that. I didn't get on this call. Look at how I look for that. So that's what that brings up. Okay. It brings up the violence of white body supremacy, the absurdity of supremacy at all. The delusion of the racial imagination, reading a 17th century creation onto a 21st century. It's just all absurd to me that anyone would continue to walk around and say, I'm better than you. I'm better than you. And I'll prove it by killing you, lynching you, raping your people, stealing your people, enslaving your people. Oh, aren't you great? That's pretty great,Jenny (34:30):I think. Yeah, I think it is. I had a therapist once tell me, it's like you've had the opposite of a psychotic break because when that is your world and that's all, it's so easy to justify and it makes sense. And then as soon as you step out of it, you're like, what the what? And then it makes it that much harder to understand. And this is my own, we talked about this last week, but processing what is my own path in this of liberation and how do I engage people who are still in that world, who are still related to me, who are, and in a way that isn't exhausting for I'm okay being exhausted if it's going to actually bear something, if it's just me spinning my wheels, I don't actually see value in that. And for me, what began to put cracks in that was people challenging my sense of superiority and my sense of knowing what they should do with their bodies. Because essentially, I think a lot of how I grew up was similar maybe and different from how you were sharing Danielle, where it was like always vote Republican because they're going to be against abortion and they're going to be against gay marriage. And those were the two in my world that were the things that I was supposed to vote for no matter what. And now just seeing how far that no matter what is willing to go is really terrifying.Danielle (36:25):Yeah, I agree. Jenny. I mean, again, I keep talking about him, but he's so important to me. The idea that my great grandfather to escape religious oppression would literally walk 1,950 miles and would leave an oppressive system just in an attempt to get away. That walk has to mean something to me today. You can't forget. All of my family has to remember that he did a walk like that. How many of us have walked that far? I mean, I haven't ever walked that far in just one instance to escape something. And he was poor because he couldn't even pay for his mom's burial at the Catholic church. So he said, let me get out of this. And then of course he landed with the Methodist and he was back in the fire again. But I come back to him, and that's what people will do to get out of religious oppression. They will give it an effort and when they can. And so I think it's important to remember those stories. I'm off on my tangent again now because it feels so important. It's a good one.Starlette (37:42):I think it's important to highlight the walking away from, to putting one foot in front of the other, praying with your feet(37:51):That it's its own. You answer your own prayer by getting away from it. It is to say that he was done with it, and if no one else was going to move, he was going to move himself that he didn't wait for the change in the institution. Let's just change directions and get away from it. And I hate to even imagine what he was faced with and that he had to make that decision. And what propelled him to walk that long with that kind of energy to keep momentum and to create that amount of distance. So for me, it's very telling. I ran away at 12. I had had it, so I get it. This is the last time you're going to hit me.Not going to beat me out of my sleep. I knew that at 12. This is no place for me. So I admire people who get up in the dead of night, get up without a warning, make it up in their mind and said, that's the last time, or This is not what I'm going to do. This is not the way that I want to be, and I'm leaving. I admire him. Sounds like a hero. I think we should have a holiday.Danielle (38:44):And then imagine telling that. Then you're going to tell me that people like my grandfather are just in it. This is where it leaves reality for me and leaves Christianity that he's just in it to steal someone's job. This man worked the lemon fields and then as a side job in his retired years, moved up to Sacramento, took in people off death row at Folsom Prison, took 'em to his home and nursed them until they passed. So this is the kind a person that will walk 1,950 miles. They'll do a lot of good in the world, and we're telling people that they can't come here. That's the kind of people that are walking here. That's the kind of people that are coming here. They're coming here to do whatever they can. And then they're nurturing families. They're actually living out in their families what supposed Christians are saying they want to be. Because people in these two parent households and these white families, they're actually raising the kind of people that will shoot Charlie Kirk. It's not people like my grandfather that walked almost 2000 miles to form a better life and take care of people out of prisons. Those aren't the people forming children that are, you'reStarlette (40:02):Going to email for that. The deacons will you in the parking lot for that one. You you're going to get a nasty tweet for that one. Somebody's going to jump off in the comments and straighten you out at,Danielle (40:17):I can't help it. It's true. That's the reality. Someone that will put their feet and their faith to that kind of practice is not traveling just so they can assault someone or rob someone. I mean, yes, there are people that have done that, but there's so much intentionality about moving so far. It does not carry the weight of, can you imagine? Let me walk 2000 miles to Rob my neighbor. That doesn't make any sense.Starlette (40:46):Sounds like it's own kind of pilgrimage.Jenny (40:59):I have so many thoughts, but I think whiteness has just done such a number on people. And I'm hearing each of you and I'm thinking, I don't know that I could tell one story from any of my grandparents. I think that that is part of whiteness. And it's not that I didn't know them, but it's that the ways in which Transgenerational family lines are passed down are executed for people in considered white bodies where it's like my grandmother, I guess I can't tell some stories, but she went to Polish school and in the States and was part of a Polish community. And then very quickly on polls were grafted into whiteness so that they could partake in the GI Bill. And so that Polish heritage was then lost. And that was not that long ago, but it was a severing that happened. And some of my ancestors from England, that severing happened a long time ago where it's like, we are not going to tell the stories of our ancestors because that would actually reveal that this whole white thing is made up. And we actually have so much more to us than that. And so I feel like the social privilege that has come from that, but also the visceral grief of how I would want to know those stories of my ancestors that aren't there. Because in part of the way that whiteness operates,Starlette (42:59):I'm glad you told that story. Diane de Prima, she tells about that, about her parents giving up their Italian ness, giving up their heritage and being Italian at home and being white in public. So not changing their name, shortening their name, losing their accent, or dropping the accent. I'm glad that you said that. I think that's important. But like you said though, if you tell those stories and it shakes up the power dynamic for whiteness, it's like, oh, but there are books how the Irish became White, the Making of Whiteness working for Whiteness, read all the books by David Broer on Whiteness Studies. But I'm glad that you told us. I think it's important, and I love that you named it as a severing. Why did you choose that word in particular?Jenny (43:55):I had the privilege a few years ago of going to Poland and doing an ancestry trip. And weeks before I went, an extended cousin in the States had gotten connected with our fifth cousin in Poland. We share the fifth grandparents. And this cousin of mine took us around to the church where my fifth great grandparents got married and these just very visceral places. And I had never felt the land that my ancestors know in my body. And there was something really, really powerful of that. And so I think of severing as I have been cut off from that lineage and that heritage because of whiteness. And I feel very, very grateful for the ways in which that is beginning to heal and beginning to mend. And we can tell truer stories of our ancestry and where we come from and the practices of our people. And I think it is important to acknowledge the cost and the privilege that has come from that severing in order to get a job that was not reserved for people that weren't white. My family decided, okay, well we'll just play the part. We will take on that role of whiteness because that will then give us that class privilege and that socioeconomic privilege that reveals how much of a construct whitenessStarlette (45:50):A racial contract is what Charles W. Mills calls it, that there's a deal made in a back room somewhere that you'll trade your sense of self for another. And so that it doesn't, it just unravels all the ways in which white supremacy, white body supremacy, pos itself, oh, that we're better. I think people don't say anything because it unravels those lies, those tongue twisters that persons have spun over the centuries, that it's really just an agreement that we've decided that we'll make ourselves the majority so that we can bully everybody else. And nobody wants to be called that. Nobody wants to be labeled greedy. I'm just trying to provide for my family, but at what expense? At who else's expense. But I like to live in this neighborhood and I don't want to be stopped by police. But you're willing to sacrifice other people. And I think that's why it becomes problematic and troublesome because persons have to look at themselves.(46:41):White body supremacy doesn't offer that reflection. If it did, persons would see how monstrous it is that under the belly of the beast, seeing the underside of that would be my community. We know what it costs for other people to feel really, really important because that's what whiteness demands. In order to look down your nose on somebody, you got to stand on somebody's back. Meanwhile, our communities are teaching each other to stand. We stand on the shoulders of giants. It's very communal. It's a shared identity and way of being. Whereas whiteness demands allegiance by way of violence, violent taking and grabbing it is quite the undoing. We have a lot of work to do. But I am proud of you for telling that story.Danielle (47:30):I wanted to read this quote by Gloria, I don't know if you know her. Do you know her? She writes, the struggle is inner Chicano, Indio, American Indian, Molo, Mexicano, immigrant, Latino, Anglo and power working class Anglo black, Asian. Our psyches resemble the border towns and are populated by the same people. The struggle has always been inner and has played out in outer terrains. Awareness of our situation must come before interchanges and which in turn come before changes in society. Nothing happens in the real world unless it first happens in the images in our heads.(48:16):So Jenny, when you're talking, you had some image in your head before you went to Poland, before it became reality. You had some, it didn't start with just knowing your cousin or whatever it happened before that. Or for me being confronted and having to confront things with my husband about ways we've been complicit or engaged in almost like the word comes gerrymandering our own future. That's kind of how it felt sometimes Luis and I and how to become aware of that and take away those scales off our own eyes and then just sit in the reality, oh no, we're really here and this is where we're really at. And so where are we going to go from here? And starlet, you've talked from your own position. That's just what comes to mind. It's something that happens inside. I mean, she talks about head, I think more in feelings in my chest. That's where it happens for me. But yeah, that's what comes to mind.Starlette (49:48):With. I feel like crying because of what we've done to our bodies and the bodies of other people. And we still can't see ourselves not as fully belonging to each other, not as beloved, not as holy.It's deeply saddening that for all the time that we have here together for all the time that we'll share with each other, we'll spend much of it not seeing each other at all.Danielle (50:57):My mind's going back to, I think I might've shared this right before you joined Starla, where it was like, I really believe the words of Jesus that says, what good is it for someone to gain the world and lose their soul? And that's what I hear. And what I feel is this soul loss. And I don't know how to convince other people. And I don't know if that's the point that their soul is worth it, but I think I've, not that I do it perfectly, but I think I've gotten to the place where I'm like, I believe my interiority is worth more than what it would be traded in for.(51:45):And I think that will be a lifelong journey of trying to figure out how to wrestle with a system. I will always be implicated in because I am talking to you on a device that was made from cobalt, from Congo and wearing clothes that were made in other countries. And there's no way I can make any decision other than to just off myself immediately. And I'm not saying I'm doing that, but I'm saying the part of the wrestle is that this is, everything is unresolved. And how do I, like what you said, Danielle, what did you say? Can you tune into this conversation?Jenny (52:45):Yeah. And how do I keep tapping in even when it means engaging my own implication in this violence? It's easier to be like, oh, those people over there that are doing those things. And it's like, wait, now how do I stay situated and how I'm continually perpetuating it as well, and how do I try to figure out how to untangle myself in that? And I think that will be always I,Danielle (53:29):He says, the US Mexican border as like an open wound where the third world grates against the first and bleeds. And before a scab forms it hemorrhages again, the lifeblood of two worlds. Two worlds merging to form a third country, a border culture. Borders are set up to define the places that are safe and unsafe to distinguish us from them. A border is a dividing line, a narrow strip along a steep edge. A borderland is a vague and undetermined place created by the emotional residue of an unnatural boundary is it is in a constant state of transition. They're prohibited and forbidden arts inhabitants. And I think that as a Latina that really describes and mixed with who my father is and that side that I feel like I live like the border in me, it feels like it grates against me. So I hear you, Jenny, and I feel very like all the resonance, and I hear you star led, and I feel a lot of resonance there too. But to deny either thing would make me less human because I am human with both of those parts of me.(54:45):But also to engage them brings a lot of grief for both parts of me. And how does that mix together? It does feel like it's in a constant state of transition. And that's partly why Latinos, I think particularly Latino men bought into this lie of power and played along. And now they're getting shown that no, that part of you that's European, that part never counted at all. And so there is no way to buy into that racialized system. There's no way to put a down payment in and come out on the other side as human. As soon as we buy into it, we're less human. Yeah. Oh, Jenny has to go in a minute. Me too. But starlet, you're welcome to join us any Thursday. Okay.Speaker 1 (55:51):Afternoon. Bye. Thank you. Bye bye.Kitsap County & Washington State Crisis and Mental Health ResourcesIf you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.Kitsap County / Local ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call LinePhone: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach TeamEmergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS)Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now”Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the PeninsulasPhone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-ResourcesLocal crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap CountyWebsite: https://namikitsap.org/Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.Statewide & National Crisis ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988)Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line1‑866‑789‑1511Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesHelp for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line877‑500‑9276Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis LifelineDial 988 then press 4Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesCulturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.Additional Helpful Tools & Tips• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

Reality and Faith Prompts1. What are the formations or structures for how you know you are in reality in regards to your faith? Do you have indicators? Internal senses? External resources? 2. Who are you in active dialogue with in regards to your faith? Who that is living and who that is passed on? 3. When you encounter dissonance with your reality of faith, how do you stay grounded in your experience?TranscriptsDanielle (00:00):To my computer. So thank you Starlet. Thank you Tamis for being with me. I've given already full introductions. I've recorded those separately. So the theme of the conversation and kind of what we're getting into on this podcast this season is I had this vision for talking about the themes have been race, faith, culture, church in the past on my podcast. But what I really think the question is, where is our reality and where are our touchpoints in those different realms? And so today there's going to be more info on this in the future, but where do we find reality and how do we form our reality when we integrate faith? So one of the questions I was asking Tamis and Starlet was what are the formations or structures for how you know are in reality in regards to your faith? Do you have indicators? Do you have internal senses? Do you have external resources? And so that's where I want to jump off from and it's free flow. I don't do a whole lot of editing, but yeah, just curious where your mind goes when you hear that, what comes to mind and we'll jump from there.Starlette (01:12):I immediately thought of baptism, baptismal waters. My baptismal identity forms and shapes me. It keeps me in touch with my body. It keeps me from being disembodied. Also, it keeps me from being swindled out of authority over my body due to the dangerous irrationalism of white body supremacy. So that's one thing. Protest also keeps me grounded. I have found that acts of defiance, minor personal rebellions, they do well for me. They keep me spiritually that I feel like it keeps me in step with Jesus. And I always feel like I'm catching up that I'm almost stepping on his feet. So for me, baptismal identity and protesting, those are the two things come to me immediately.Tamice (02:04):Whoa, that's so deep. Wow, I never thought about that. But I never thought about protests being a thing that groundsBecause I mean I've just been, for me I would say I've been working on the right so, and y'all know me, so I got acronyms for days. But I mean I think that the radical ethical spirituality that's tethered to my tradition, that's a rule of life, but it's also a litmus test. So for me, if you can't tell the truth, we don't have conversations about non-violence and loving enemies. I don't get to ethical spirituality unless you come through the front door of truth telling and truth telling in that sense of the r. And the rest arrest mix tape is radical. Angela Davis says radical and that's grasping stuff at the root. So before we have conversations about forgiveness for instance, or Jesus or scripture or what is right and what is moral, it's very important that we first tell the truth about the foundations of those realities and what we even mean by those terms and whose those terms serve and where they come from. I talk about it asking to see the manager. We need see the manager(03:24):Me that grounds me is now if something comes in and it calls me to move in a different way or corrects me or checks me in a certain way, I say yes to it if it comes through the door of truth telling because it means I also got to be true and tell the truth to myself. So that keeps me grounded. That kind of acronym is kind of how I move, but it's also how I keep toxic ways of doing religion out. And I also have come back into relationship with trees and grass and the waters and that's been really powerful for moving down into different types of intelligence. For me, the earth has been pulling me into a different way of knowing and being in that part brings me to ancestors. Just like you starlet my ancestors, I keep finding them in the trees and in the water and in the wind. So it's like, well I need them real bad right now. So that's where I'm kind of grounding myself these days.But to your point about grounding and protest, I feel most compelled to show up in spaces where the ground is crying out screaming. I feel like it beckons me there. And we talked about the most recent news of Trey being found and you talked about truth telling and what resonated immediately. And it didn't sit right with me that African-American people, people of African descent know not to take their lives in that way because of the traumatic history that when you say things like you don't suspect any foul play, it sounds like what has historically been named as at the hands of persons unknown where that no one is held responsible for the death of African-American people. That's what ties it in for me. And I feel like it's an ancestral pool that they didn't leave this way, they didn't leave in the way that they were supposed to, that something stinks and that they're crying out to say, can you hear me? Come over here Terry a while here. Don't leave him here. Don't let up on it because we didn't call him here somebody. So I love that you said that you are, feel yourself being grounded in and call back to the earth because I do feel like it speaks to us,But there are telltale signs in it and that the trees will tell us too. And so I didn't have a hand in this. It was forced on me and I saw it all come and talk to me. Put your hand here, put your head here and you can hear me scream and then you can hear me scream, you can hear him scream. He was calling out the whole time. That's what I believe in. That's how I test reality. I tested against what the earth is saying like you said, but I think we have to walk the ground a bit. We have to pace the ground a bit. We can't just go off of what people are saying. Back to your point about truth telling, don't trust nobody I don't trust. I don't trust anybody that's going to stop because you can't fix a lie. So if you're going to come in with deception, there's not much else I can do with you. There's not much I can say to you. And I find that white body supremacy is a supreme deception. So if we can't start there in a conversation, there's nothing that I can say to youTamice (06:46):That's facts. It's interesting that you talked about baptism, you talked about grounding and I had this story pop up and while you were talking again it popped up again. So I'm going to tell it. So we are not going to talk about who and all the things that happened recently, but I had made some comments online around that and around just the choice to be blind. So I've been talking a lot about John nine and this passage where it is very clear to everyone else what's happening, but the people who refuse to see, refuse to see.So in that, I was kind of pulled into that. I was in Mississippi, I was doing some stuff for the book and this lady, a chaplain, her name is Sally Bevin, actually Sally Bevel, she walked up to me, she kept calling me, she was like, Tam me, she want to come. I have my whole family there. We were at the Mississippi Book Fair and she kept saying, Tam me, she want to come join, dah, dah, dah. Then my family walked off and they started to peruse and then she asked me again and I was like, no, I'm good. And I was screaming. I mean I'm looking in the screen and the third time she did it, it pulled me out and I was like, this woman is trying to pull me into being present. And she said to me, this is funny, starlet. I said, I feel like I need to be washed and I need a baptism because this phone feels like so on right now and the wickedness is pulling me. So she poured, she got some ice, cold water, it was 95 degrees, poured cold water on my hands, had me wash my hands and she took the cold water. She put a cross on my forehead. And you know what she said to me? She said, remember your baptism?She said, remember your baptism? And when I was baptized, even though it was by a man who will not also be named, when I was baptized the wind, there was a whirlwind at my baptism. It was in 2004, that same wind hit in Mississippi and then I felt like I was supposed to take my shoes off. So I walked around the Mississippi Festival with no shoes on, not knowing that the earth was about to receive two people who did not deserve to be hung from trees. And there's something very, I feel real talk, I feel afraid for white supremacy right now in the name of my ancestors and I feel like I'm calling on everything right now. And that's also grounding me.Starlette (09:36):I was with Mother Moses last week. I went to Dorchester County just to be with her because the people were here. Take me. I said, I'll leave them all here. I know you said there are a few here, but give me the names, give me the last names of the people because I don't have time for this. I see why she left people. I see why she was packing. So to your point, I think it's important that we talk to the ancestors faithfully, religiously. We sit down at their feet and listen for a bit about how they got over and how they got through it and let them bear witness to us. And she does it for me every time, every single time she grounds, she grounds meDanielle (10:23):Listening to you all. I was like, oh wait. It is like Luke 19 where Jesus is coming in on the show and he didn't ride in on the fanciest plane on a donkey. And if you're familiar with that culture that is not the most elevated animal, not the elevated animal to ride, it's not the elevated animal. You don't eat it. Not saying that it isn't eaten at times, but it's not right. So he rides in on that and then people are saying glory to God in the highest and they're praising him and the Pharisees are like, don't do that because it's shameful and I don't remember the exact words, but he's basically be quiet. The rocks are going to tell the story of what happened here. He's walking his way. It kind of reminds me to me. So what you're saying, he's walking away, he's going to walk and he's going to walk that way and he's going to walk to his death. He's walking it in two scenarios that Jesus goes in to talk about. Your eyes are going to be blind to peace, to the real way to peace. It's going to be a wall put around you and you're going to miss out. People are going to destroy you because you missed your chance.Starlette (11:50):Point again creation. And if you're going to be a rock headed people, then I'll recruit this rock choir. They get ready to rock out on you. If there's nothing you're going to say. So even then he says that creation will bear witness against you. You ain't got to do it. You ain't got to do it. I can call these rock. You can be rock headed if you want to. You can be stony hearted if you want to. I can recruit choir members from the ground,Tamice (12:16):But not even that because y'all know I'm into the quantum and metaphysics. Not even that they actually do speak of course, like words are frequencies. So when you hold a certain type of element in your hand, that thing has a frequency to it. That's alright that they said whatever, I don't need it from you. Everything else is tapped into this.Starlette (12:39):Right. In fact, it's the rocks are tapped into a reality. The same reality that me and this donkey and these people throwing stuff at my feet are tapped into.You are not tapped into reality. And so that's why he makes the left and not the right because typically when a person is coming to Saka city, they head towards the temple. He went the other direction because he is like it was a big fuck. I don't use power like this. And actually what I'm about to do is raise you on power. This is a whole different type of power. And that's what I feel like our ancestors, the realities that the alternative intelligence in the world you're talking about ai, the alternative intelligence in the world is what gives me every bit of confidence to look this beast in the face and call it what it is. This isTamice (13:52):And not going to bow to it. And I will go down proclaiming it what it is. I will not call wickedness good.And Jesus said, Jesus was so when he talks about the kingdom of heaven suffering violence and the violence taken it by force, it's that it's like there's something so much more violent about being right and righteous. Y'all have to use violence because you can't tell the truth.Danielle (14:29):Do you see the split two? There's two entirely different realities happening. Two different kingdoms, two entirely different ways of living in this era and they're using quote J, but it's not the same person. It can't be, you cannot mix white Jesus and brown Jesus. They don't go together. TheyStarlette (15:00):Don't, what is it? Michael O. Emerson and Glenn e Bracy. The second they have this new book called The Religion of Whiteness, and they talk about the fact that European Americans who are racialized as white Tahi says those who believe they are white. He says that there's a group of people, the European Americans who are racialized as white, who turn to scripture to enforce their supremacy. And then there's another group of people who turn to scripture to support and affirm our sibling.It is two different kingdoms. It's funny, it came to me the other day because we talk about, I've talked about how for whiteness, the perception of goodness is more important than the possession of it.You know what I mean? So mostly what they do is seek to be absolved. Right? So it's just, and usually with the being absolved means I'm less bad than that, so make that thing more bad than me and it's a really terrible way to live a life, but it is how whiteness functions, and I'm thinking about this in the context of all that is happening in the world because it's like you cannot be good and racist period. And that's as clear as you cannot love God and mammon you will end up hating one and loving the other. You cannot love God. You cannotStarlette (16:29):Love God and hate your next of kin your sibling. Dr. Angela Parker says something really important During the Wild Goose Festival, she asked the participants there predominantly European American people, those racialized as white. She said, do you all Terry, do you Terry, do you wait for the Holy Spirit? Do you sit with yourself and wait for God to move? And it talked, it spoke to me about power dynamic. Do you feel like God is doing the moving and you wait for the spirit to anoint you, to fill you, to inspire you, to baptize you with fire? You Terry, do you wait a while or do you just the other end of that that she doesn't say, do you just get up? I gave my life to Jesus and it's done right handed fellowship, give me my certificate and walk out the door. You have to sit with yourself and I don't know what your tradition is.I was raised Pentecostal holiness and I had to tear all night long. I was on my knees calling on the name of Jesus and I swear that Baba couldn't hear me. Which octave do you want me to go in? I lost my voice. You know them people, them mothers circled me with a sheet and told me I didn't get it that night that I had to come back the next day after I sweat out my down, I sweat out my press. Okay. I pressed my way trying to get to that man and they told me he didn't hear me. He not coming to get you today. I don't hear a change. They were looking for an evidence of tongues. They didn't hear an evidence, a change speech. You still sound the way that you did when you came in here. And I think that white body supremacy, that's where the problem lies with me. There's no difference. I don't hear a change in speech. You're still talking to people as if you can look down your nose with them. You have not been submerged in the water. You did not go down in the water. White supremacy, white body supremacy has not been drowned out.Terry, you need to Terry A. Little while longer. I'll let you know when you've gotten free. When you've been lifted, there's a cloud of witnesses. Those mothers rubbing your back, snapping your back and saying, call on him. Call him like you want him. Call him like you need him and they'll tell you when they see evidence, they'll let you, you know when you've been tied up, tangled up. That's what we would say. Wrapped up in Jesus and I had to come back a second night and call on the Lord and then they waited a while. They looked, they said, don't touch her, leave her alone. He got her now, leave her alone. But there was an affirmation, there was a process. You couldn't just get up there and confess these ABCs and salvation, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Why do you think they'll let you know when you got it?Danielle (18:56):Why do you think that happened? Why? I have a question for You'all. Why do you think that became the reality of the prayer in that moment? And we're talking about Africans that have been brought here and enslaved. Why do you think that happened on our soil that way? Why question?Tamice (19:12):I mean I'm wondering about it because when stylists talk and I keep thinking the Terry in and of itself is a refusal. It says what I see is not real. What's in front of me is not right. I'm going to wait for something else.I'm saying, the slave Bible, them taking stuff out of the Bible and it's like, but I feel like the ground, there was something about the ground that indigenous people, that indigenous people were able to help them tap into over here. It was waiting on that.Starlette (19:49):We didn't have punishment. We had a percussion session. So they ring shouted me. I didn't know what it was at the time. We didn't have all the fancy stuff. Everybody had put me in key. We didn't have, we had this and feet them people circled around me. We don't do that no more.Danielle (20:06):We don't do that no more. But don't you think if you're a person that is, and I believe Africans came here with faith already. Oh yes, there's evidence of that. So put that aside, but don't you think then even if you have that faith and it's not so different than our time and you're confronted with slave owners and plantation owners also preaching quote the same faith that you're going to have to test it out on your neighbor when they're getting saved. You're going to have to make sure they didn't catch that bug.Don't you think there's something in there? Block it. Don't you think if you know faith internally already like we do and run into someone that's white that's preaching the same thing, we have to wait it out with them. Don't you think our ancestors knew that when they were here they were waiting it out. I just noticed my spirit match that spirit. We have to wait it out. Yes, because and let's say they didn't know Jesus. Some people didn't know Jesus and they met Jesus here for whatever reason, and your example is still the white man. You have to wait it out to make sure you're not reflecting that evilness. I mean that's what I'm thinking. That's it's the absolutelyStarlette (21:20):Truth. There's a book titled Slave Testimony, and I know this because I just read about it. There's a testimony of an enslaved African-American, he's unnamed. It was written on June 26th, 1821. He's talking to Master John. He said, I want permission to speak to you if you please. He talked about, he said, where is it? Where is it? A few words. I hope that you will not think Me too bull. Sir, I make my wants known to you because you are, I believe the oldest and most experienced that I know of. He says in the first place, I want you to tell me the reason why you always preach to the white folks and keep your back to us is because they sit up on the hill. We have no chance among them there. We must be forgotten because we are near enough. We are not near enough without getting in the edge of the swamp behind you. He was calling him to account. He said, when you sell me, do you make sure that I'm sold to a Christian or heathen?He said, we are charged with inattention because of where their position. He said it's impossible for us to pay good attention with this chance. In fact, some of us scarce think that we are preached to it all. He says, money appears to be the object. We are carried to market and sold to the highest bidder. Never once inquired whether you sold to a heathen or a Christian. If the question was put, did you sell to a Christian, what would the answer be? I can tell you, I can tell what he was, gave me my price. That's all I was interested in. So I don't want people to believe that Africans who were enslaved did not talk back, did not speak back. They took him to task. He said, everybody's not literate. There's about one in 50 people who are, and I'm one of them and I may not be able to speak very well, but this is what I want to tell you. I can tell the difference. I know that you're not preaching to me the same. I know that when you talk about salvation, you're not extending it to me.Yikes. You need to know that our people, these ancestors, not only were they having come to Jesus meetings, but they were having come to your senses, meeting with their oppressor and they wrote it down. They wrote it down. I get sick of the narratives that we are not our answer. Yes we are. Yes I am. I'm here because of them. I think they called me. I think they call me here. I think the fussing that I make, the anger that I possess this need to resist every damn thing. I think they make me do thatTamice (23:35):Indeed, I think. But I didn't get my voice until they took the MLE off, had an honor with my ancestors and they came and they told me it's time. Take that mle off, MLE off. Shoot. Why Jesus ain't tell me to take no muzzle off. I'm going to tell you that now.Danielle (23:52):That's why I mean many indigenous people said, Jesus didn't come back for me because if that guy's bringing me Jesus, then now Jesus didn't come back for me.Starlette (24:07):Come on.Make it plain. Danielle, go ahead. Go ahead. Walk heavy today. Yeah, I meanDanielle (24:17):I like this conversation. Why Jesus, why Jesus didn't come back for us, the three of us. He didn't come back for us. It didn't come back from kids. He didn't come back for my husband. Nope. And so then therefore that we're not going to find a freedom through that. No, that's no desire to be in that.Tamice (24:33):None. And that's what I mean and making it very, very plain to people like, listen, I actually don't want to be in heaven with your Jesus heaven. With your Jesus would be hell. I actually have one,Starlette (24:47):The one that they had for us, they had an N word heaven for us where they would continue to be served and they wrote it down. It's bad for people who are blio foes who like to read those testimonies. It is bad for people who like to read white body supremacy For Phil. Yeah, they had one for us. They had separate creation narratives known as polygenetic, but they also had separate alon whereby they thought that there was a white heaven and an inward heaven.I didn't even know that. Starla, I didn't even know that because they said they want to make sure their favorite slave was there to serve them. Oh yes, the delusion. People tell me that they're white. I really do push back for a reason. What do you mean by that? I disagree with all of it. What part of it do you find agreeable? The relationship of ruling that you maintain over me? The privilege. White power. Which part of it? Which part of it is good for you and for me? How does it help us maintain relationship as Christians?Danielle (25:47):I think that's the reality and the dissonance we live in. Right?Starlette (25:51):That's it. But I think there needs to be a separation.Are you a white supremacist or not?Tamice (26:03):That's what I'm saying. That's why I keep saying, listen, at this point, you can't be good and racist. Let me just say that. Oh no, you got to pickStarlette (26:12):And I need to hear itTamice (26:13):Both. Yeah. I need you to public confession of it.Starlette (26:19):Someone sent me a dm. I just want to thank you for your work and I completely agree. I quickly turned back around. I said, say it publicly. Get out of my dms. Say it publicly. Put it on your page. Don't congratulate me. Within two minutes or so. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to disturb you. You are right. Okay. Okay. Okay. Did he post anything? No. Say it publicly. Denounce them. Come out from among them.Very, very plain. As a white supremacist or na, as a kid, as children. HowDanielle (26:56):Hard is it? I think that's what made this moment so real and it's a kind of a reality. Fresher actually for everybody to be honest, because it's a reality. All certain things have been said. All manner of things have been said by people. This is just one example of many people that have said these things. Not the only person that's lived and died and said these things. And then when you say, Hey, this was said, someone's like, they didn't say that. You're like, no, some people put all their content on the internet receipts. They did it themselves. That's not true. And I went to a prayer vigil. I didn't go. I sat outside a prayer vigil this weekend and I listened in and they were praying for the resurrection like Jesus of certain people that have passed on. I kid you, I sat there in the car with a friend of mine and then my youngest daughter had come with me just to hang out. She's like, what are they praying for? I was like, they're like, they were praying for a certain person to be resurrected from the dead just like Jesus. And I was so confused. I'm so confused how we got that far, honestly. But I told my kid, I said, this is a moment of reality for you. This is a moment to know. People think like this.Starlette (28:13):Also, white bodyDanielle (28:14):Supremacy is heresy. Yes. It's not even related to the Bible. Not at all.Why I steal away. This is why even the mistranslated Bible, even the Bible that you could take,Starlette (28:33):ThisThe version Danielle started. If you wouldn't have said that, I wouldn't have said that. This is exactly why I steal away. This is exactly why I leave. Because you can't argue with people like that. Now we're resurrected. IAll I need, it's like away. This is exactly why, because I can't hear what Howard Thurman calls the sound of the genuine in that. It's just not going to happen.Danielle (29:01):Can you imagine what would've happened if we would've prayed for George Floyd to be resurrected? Listen, what would've happenedStarlette (29:08):That he called the scumbag.Danielle (29:10):Yeah, but what would've happened if we would've played for their resurrection? Adam, Adam Polito. ThatStarlette (29:19):Was foundTamice (29:19):Psychosis.Starlette (29:21):Yeah. What would've happened? See, don't push me now. I feel like I need to pack. As soon as I said fill away, it's like people keep saying, what are you going to do if gets worse? I'm going to leave my, I'll sell all this crapAbout this stuff. This booby trap of capitalism. I'll it all don't about none of it. What matters most to me is my sense of ness. And when you get to talking, I almost said talking out the side of your neck. Jesus God, today, lemme God Jesus of your neck. You just need to know that's a cultural thing. That's going to have to be reevaluated. God. It just came right on out. Oh Lord. When you start saying things that go against my sense of ness that you think that I have to defend my personhood, that you want to tell me that I don't exist as a person. I don't exist as a human. Back to your reality testament. It's time for me to leave. I'm not staying here and fighting a race war or a civil war. You mamas are just violent. It's what you've always been.Tamice (30:28):Why would I stand in the middle? Why would I stand in the middle of what I know is a confrontation with yourself?Starlette (30:36):Oh, okay. Alright. I'm going to justTamice (30:38):You all. What happened last week is it, it is a confrontation with a really disturbed self and they're trying to flip it. Oh yes. They're trying to make it. Yes. But this is like, I'm trying to tell people out here, this is beyond you, Jack, that was a prophetic witness against you because now you see that what you're fighting is the mirror. Keep me out of it. I won't fight your wars. Keep me out of it. Look, James Baldwin said, y'all have to decide and figure out why you needed a nigger in the first place.I'm not a nigger. I'm a man. But you, the white people need to figure out why you created the nigger in the first place. Fuck, this is not my problem. This is a y'all and I don't have anything invested in this. All I'm trying to do is raise my kids, man. Come on. Get out of here with that. I'm sorry.Danielle (31:48):No, you keep going and then go back to starlet. Why do you think then they made her Terry? They had to make sure she doesn't buy into that. That's my opinion.Tamice (32:00):It's funny too because I see, I mean, I wasn't Pentecostal. I feel like who's coming to mind as soon as you said that de y'all know I'm hip hop. Right? So KRS one.Starlette (32:12):Yes. Consciousness.Tamice (32:14):The mind. Oh yes, the mind, the imagination. He was, I mean from day one, trying to embed that in the youth. Like, Hey, the battlefield is the mind. Are you going to internalize this bullshit?Are you going to let them name you?Starlette (32:34):This is the word.Tamice (32:34):Are you going to let them tell you what is real for the people of God? That's That's what I'm saying, man. Hip hop, hip hop's, refusal has been refusal from day one. That's why I trust it.Because in seen it, it came from the bottom of this place. It's from the bottom of your shoe. It tells the truth about all of this. So when I listen to hip hop, I know I'm getting the truth.Starlette (32:57):Yeah. EnemyObjection. What did public enemy say? Can't trust it. Can't trust it. No, no, no, no. You got to play it back. We got to run all that back.Danielle (33:11):I just think how it's so weaponized, the dirt, the bottom of the shoe, all of that stuff. But that's where we actually, that's what got it. Our bodies hitting the road, hitting the pavement, hitting the grass, hitting the dirt. That's how we know we're in reality because we've been forced to in many ways and have a mindset that we are familiar with despite socioeconomic changes. We're familiar with that bottom place.Tamice (33:38):Yeah. I mean, bottom place is where God is at. That's what y'all don't understand. God comes from black, dark dirt, like God is coming from darkness and hiddenness and mystery. You don't love darkness. You don't love GodStarlette (33:56):Talk. Now this bottom place is not to be confused with the sunken place that some of y'all are in. I just want to be clear. I just want to be clear and I'm not coming to get you. Fall was the wrong day. TodayI think it's good though because there's so much intimidation in other communities at times. I'm not saying there's not through the lynchings, ongoing lynchings and violence too and the threats against colleges. But it's good for us to be reminded of our different cultural perspectives and hear people talk with power. Why do you think Martin Luther King and Cesar Chavez wrote letters to each other? They knew something about that and knew something about it. They knew something about it. They knew something about why it's important to maintain the bonds. Why we're different, why we're similar. They knew something about it. So I see it as a benefit and a growth in our reality. That is actually what threatens that, that relationship, that bond, that connection, that speaking life into one another. That's what threatens that kingdom that you're talking about. Yeah.You just can't fake an encounter either.When I was tear, no matter what I've decolonized and divested from and decentered, I cannot deny that experience. I know that God was present. I know that God touched me. So when mother even made sister, even made, my grandmother would call me when I was in college, first person to go to college. In our family, she would say before she asked about classes or anything else, and she really didn't know what to ask. She only had a sixth grade education. But her first question was always you yet holding on?Right. She holding on. And I said, yes ma'am. Yes ma'am. Then she would, because it didn't matter if you couldn't keep the faith. There really wasn't nothing else for her to talk to you about. She was going to get ready to evangelize and get you back because you backslid. But that was her first thing. But what I've learned since then is that I can let go.The amazing thing is that the spirit is guiding me. I didn't let go all together. You got it. You got it. If it's real, if you're real, prove it. Demonstrate it. I'm getting chills now talk to me without me saying anything, touch me. I shouldn't have to do anything. Eugene Peterson says that prayer is answering speech. In fact, the only reason why I'm praying is because you said something to me first. It's not really on me to do anything. Even with the tear. I was already touched. I was already called. The reason why I was on my knees and pleading is because I'd already been compelled. Something had had already touched me. FirstThey called Holy Spirit. The hound of heaven. Damn right was already on my heels. I was already filled before I could even refuse. I was like, I don't want this. I'm going to always be star Jonah, get your people. I prefer fish guts. Throw me overboard. I don't like these people. Certified prophet because I don't want to do it. I never want to do it. I'm not interested at all. I have no too much history. I've had to deal with too much white body supremacy and prejudice and racism to want anything to do with the church. I see it for what? It's I'll never join one. By the way, are we recording? Is it on? I'm never joining a church ever. Until you all desegregate.You desegregate. Then we can talk about your ministry of reconciliation. Until then, you don't have one. Don't talk to me about a community day or a pulpit swap. I don't want to hear it. All Your praise. What did he say? A clinging, stumble, put away from me. Your conferences, all your multiracial. I don't want to hear none of it. Desegregate that part desegregate you, hypocrites, woe unto all of you white supremacists. If nobody ever told you that's not God. It's not of God. So I don't, for me, my reality is so above me, I know that Paul, because when I don't want to say anything, somebody is in my ear. Somebody was talking to me this morning. Somebody was writing a note in my ear. I had to get up. I said, please. I'm like, now I'm not even awake all the way. Stop talking to me. You can't fake that as much as I push against the Holy Spirit. You can't fake that. I don't want to do it. I don't want to say it. I'm of saying it. And yet I get up in the morning and it's like, say this, that post that. Write that. Somebody else is doing that. That's not me.As the mothers say, my flesh is weak. My flesh is not willing at all. I want to, all of y'all can go on. I'll pack this up and move somewhere else. Let them fight it to the death. I'm not going to, this is just my flesh speaking. Forgive me. Okay. This Raceless gospel is a calling friends. It's a calling. It's a calling, which means you coming into it. I'm an itinerant prophet. I'm heavy into the Hebrew scriptures. I come up with every excuse. My throat hurts. I got a speech impediment. The people don't like me. I'm not educated. It don't work. You need to know when people come to you and say, y'all need to get together, God speaking to you, the Pendo is coming. That's not like an invitation. That's kind of like a threat whether you want it or not. You're getting together.Everybody up. There's a meal ready, there's a banquet that is set and the food is getting cold and you are the reason why the drinks are watered down. That's go. You don't hear me calling you. ComeWhat I keep hearing. You have to know that God is speaking to people and saying that there's an invitation coming and you better get right. You better get washed up. Tam me said, you better let somebody pour that water over your hands. You better get washed up and get ready for dinner. I'm calling you. Come on in this house. Come on in this house. And this house is for everybody. Martin Luther King called it the world house. Everybody's coming in and you ain't got to like it doesn't matter. Get somewhere and sit down. That's that old church mother coming out of me and lemme just confess. I didn't even want to be on here this morning. I told God I didn't feel like talking. I told the Lord and you see what happened.Promise you. I'm a child. I'm full of disobedience.I was not in the mood. I said, I don't want to talk to nobody. I'm an introvert. I don't want to deal with none of this. Get somebody else to do it and look at it.Tamice (40:39):Yeah. It's funny because I woke up this morning, I was like, I'm not, I forgot. And then after all of the news today, I was like, I just don't have it in you, but this is, wait a minute. And it was three minutes past the time. Come on. And I was like, oh, well shoot. The house is empty. Nobody's here right now. I was like, well, lemme just log on. So this is definitely, it feels like definitely our calling do feel. I feel that way. I don't have time to bullshitSo I can't get out of it. I can't go to bed. I might as well say something. It won't let me go. I cannot do deceit. I can't do it. I can't sit idly by while people lie on God. I can't do that. I can't do it. It won't let up. And I'm trying to get in my body, get in this grass and get a little space. But I'm telling you, it won't let me go. And I feel it's important, Dee, you can't stop doing what you're doing. That's right. I mean is this thing of it is beyond me. It is living out of me. It's coming through me. And there has to be a reason for this. There's got to be a reason for this. And I don't know what it is because I know my eschatology is different, but I feel like, buddy, we got to manifest this kingdom. We have to manifest it until it pushes all that shit back. Come on. I'm telling you. Till it scurries it away or renders it and null and void, I'm talking. I mean, I want the type of light and glory on my being. That wicked logic disintegrate, wicked people drop dead. I mean that just in the Bible. In the Bible where Hert falls, headlong and worms eat em. Y'all celebrate that. Why can't I think about that? It's in your scriptures or daykin and the thing breaks and the legs of this false God break. I want that. I'm here for that. I'm going after that.Danielle (43:14):You think that this is what the definition of Terry is? That we're all Terry serious. I'm rocking the whole time. I'm serious. Right. That's what I told my kids. I said, in one sense, this is a one person of many that thinks this way. So we can't devote all our conversation in our house to this man. And I said in the other sense, because Starlet was asking me before he got here, how you doing? I said, we got up and I took calls from this person and that person and I told my kids, we're still advocating and doing what we can for the neighbors that need papers. And so we're going to continue doing that. That is the right thing to do. No matter what anybody else is doing in the world, we can do this.Tamice (43:56):Yeah, that's a good call. I mean, I'm headed to, I ain't going to say where I'm going no more, but I'm headed somewhere and going to be with people who are doing some innovation, right. Thinking how do we build a different world? How do our skillsets and passions coalesce and become something other than this? So I'm excited about that. And it's like that fire, it doesn't just drive me to want to rebuke. It does drive me to want to rebuild and rethink how we do everything. And I'm willing, I mean, I know that I don't know about y'all, but I feel like this, I'm getting out of dodge, but also I'm seeking the piece of the city. I feel both. I feel like I'm not holding hands with ridiculousness and I'm not moving in foolishness. But also I'm finna seek the piece of the city. My G I'm not running from delusion. Why would I? I'm in the truth. So I don't know how that maps onto a practical life, but we're finna figure it out. Out in it. I mean, the response of leadership to what has happened is a very clear sign where we are in terms of fascism. That's a very clear sign.What else y'all are looking for To tell you what it is.Danielle (45:36):But also we're the leaders. We are, we're the leaders. They're a leader of something, but they're not the leader of us. We're the leaders. We're the leaders. So no matter what they say, no matter what hate they spew, I really love Cesar Chavez. He's like, I still go out and feed the farm worker and I don't make them get on the boycott line because if they're pushed under the dirt, then they can't see hope. So people that have more economic power, a little more privilege than the other guy, we're the leaders. We're the ones that keep showing up in love. And love is a dangerous thing for these folks. They can't understand it. They can't grasp it. It is violent for them to feel love. Bodies actually reject it. And the more we show up, you're innovating. You're speaking Starla, you're preaching. We're the leaders. They're leaders of something. They're not leaders of us. We're leaders of freedom.Tamice (46:31):Come on now. D, we're leaders of give us thisStarlette (46:34):Bomb. We're leaders of compassion. You coming in here with the Holy Ghosts, acting like one of them church mothers. We were in the room together. She put our hand on us. YouDanielle (46:43):We're the ones that can remember Trey. We're the ones that can call for justice. We don't need them to do it. They've never done it. Right. Anyway. They have never showed up for a Mexican kid. They've never showed up for a black kid. They've never done it. Right. Anyway, we're the ones that can do it now. We have access to technology. We have access to our neighbors. We can bring a meal to a friend. We can give dollars to someone that needs gas. We're the the one doing it. We're the one that doing itTamice (47:11):Fill usDanielle (47:12):Up. They cannot take away our love.Starlette (47:15):Receive the benediction.Danielle: Yeah. They can't take it away. I'm telling you, if I saw someone shooting someone I hate, I would try to save that person. I don't own guns. I don't believe in guns, period. My family, that's my personal family's belief.And I would do that. I've thought about it many times. I thought would I do it? And I think I would because I actually believe that. I believe that people should not be shot dead. I believe that for the white kid. I believe that for the Mexican kid. I believe that for the black kid, we're the people that can show up. They're not going to come out here. They're inviting us to different kind of war. We're not in that war. That's right. We have love on our side and you cannot defeat love, kill love. You can'tTamice (48:04):Kill love and you can't kill life. That's the only reason somebody would ask you to be nonviolent. That's the only way somebody would've the audacity to ask that of you. Especially if you're oppressed. If the true is truth is that you can't kill love or life, damn man. It's hard out here for a pimp.Starlette (48:38):Really. Really? Yeah. Because what I really want to say isTamice (49:27):I can't. Your testimony a lie. No. Your testimony. That would be a lie. And like I said, truth telling is important. But there are days where I could be that I could go there, but I witnessed what happened that day. I watched the video. It's just not normal to watch that happen to anybody. And I don't care who you are. And the fact that we're there is just objectively just wow. And the fact that all of the spin and do y'all not realize what just happened? Just as a actual event. Right. What? You know, I'm saying how has this turned into diatribes? Right? We need reform. I, whichDanielle (50:29):Which, okay, so I have to cut us off. I have a client coming, but I want to hear from you, given all the nuance and complexity, how are you going to take care of your body this week or even just today? It doesn't have to be genius. Just one or two things you're going to do. Oh, I'm going toTamice (50:51):Take a nap. Yeah, you taking a nap? Y'all be so proud of me. I literally just said no to five things. I was like, I'm not coming to this. I'm not doing that. I won't be at this. I'm grieving. I'm go sit in the grass. Yeah, that's what I'm doing today. And I have stuff coming up. I'm like, Nope, I'm not available.Starlette (51:14):What about you Danielle? What are you going to do?Danielle (51:16):I'm going to eat scrambled eggs with no salt. I love that. I've grown my liver back so I have to have no salt. But I do love scrambled eggs. Scrambled eggs. That's the truth. Four. Four scrambled eggs.Starlette (51:31):And we thank you for your truth. BIO:The Reverend Dr. Starlette Thomas is a poet, practical theologian, and itinerant prophet for a coming undivided “kin-dom.” She is the director of The Raceless Gospel Initiative, named for her work and witness and an associate editor at Good Faith Media. Starlette regularly writes on the sociopolitical construct of race and its longstanding membership in the North American church. Her writings have been featured in Sojourners, Red Letter Christians, Free Black Thought, Word & Way, Plough, Baptist News Global and Nurturing Faith Journal among others. She is a frequent guest on podcasts and has her own. The Raceless Gospel podcast takes her listeners to a virtual church service where she and her guests tackle that taboo trinity— race, religion, and politics. Starlette is also an activist who bears witness against police brutality and most recently the cultural erasure of the Black Lives Matter Plaza in Washington, D.C. It was erected in memory of the 2020 protests that brought the world together through this shared declaration of somebodiness after the gruesome murder of George Perry Floyd, Jr. Her act of resistance caught the attention of the Associated Press. An image of her reclaiming the rubble went viral and in May, she was featured in a CNN article.Starlette has spoken before the World Council of Churches North America and the United Methodist Church's Council of Bishops on the color- coded caste system of race and its abolition. She has also authored and presented papers to the members of the Baptist World Alliance in Zurich, Switzerland and Nassau, Bahamas to this end. She has cast a vision for the future of religion at the National Museum of African American History and Culture's “Forward Conference: Religions Envisioning Change.” Her paper was titled “Press Forward: A Raceless Gospel for Ex- Colored People Who Have Lost Faith in White Supremacy.” She has lectured at The Queen's Foundation in Birmingham, U.K. on a baptismal pedagogy for antiracist theological education, leadership and ministries. Starlette's research interests have been supported by the Louisville Institute and the Lilly Foundation. Examining the work of the Reverend Dr. Clarence Jordan, whose farm turned “demonstration plot” in Americus, Georgia refused to agree to the social arrangements of segregation because of his Christian convictions, Starlette now takes this dirt to the church. Her thesis is titled, “Afraid of Koinonia: How life on this farm reveals the fear of Christian community.” A full circle moment, she was recently invited to write the introduction to Jordan's newest collection of writings, The Inconvenient Gospel: A Southern Prophet Tackles War, Wealth, Race and Religion.Starlette is a member of the Christian Community Development Association, the Peace & Justice Studies Association, and the Koinonia Advisory Council. A womanist in ministry, she has served as a pastor as well as a denominational leader. An unrepentant academician and bibliophile, Starlette holds degrees from Buffalo State College, Colgate Rochester Crozer Divinity School and Wesley Theological Seminary. Last year, she was awarded an honorary doctorate in Sacred Theology for her work and witness as a public theologian from Wayland Baptist Theological Seminary. She is the author of "Take Me to the Water": The Raceless Gospel as Baptismal Pedagogy for a Desegregated Church and a contributing author of the book Faith Forward: A Dialogue on Children, Youth & a New Kind of Christianity. Dr. Tamice Spencer - HelmsGod is not a weapon.  Authenticity is not a phase.Meet  Tamice Spencer-Helms (they/she). Tamice is a nonprofit leader, scholar-practitioner, pastor, and theoactivist based in Richmond, Virginia. For decades, Tamice has been guided by a singular purpose: to confront and heal what they call “diseased imagination”—the spiritual and social dis-ease that stifles agency, creativity, and collective flourishing. As a pastor for spiritual fugitives,  Tamice grounds their work at the intersection of social transformation, soulful leadership, womanist and queer liberation theologies, and cultural critique.A recognized voice in theoactivism, Tamice's work bridges the intellectual and the embodied, infusing rigorous scholarship with lived experience and spiritual practice. They hold two master's degrees (theology and leadership) and a doctorate in Social Transformation. Their frameworks, such as R.E.S.T. Mixtape and Soulful Leadership, which are research and evidence-based interventions that invite others into courageous truth-telling, radical belonging, and the kind of liberating leadership our times demand.​Whether facilitating retreats, speaking from the stage, consulting for organizations, or curating digital sanctuaries, Tamice's presence is both refuge and revolution. Their commitment is to help individuals and communities heal, reimagine, and build spaces where every person is seen, known, and liberated—where diseased imagination gives way to new possibilities. Kitsap County & Washington State Crisis and Mental Health ResourcesIf you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.Kitsap County / Local ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call LinePhone: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach TeamEmergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS)Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now”Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the PeninsulasPhone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-ResourcesLocal crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap CountyWebsite: https://namikitsap.org/Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.Statewide & National Crisis ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988)Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line1‑866‑789‑1511Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesHelp for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line877‑500‑9276Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis LifelineDial 988 then press 4Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesCulturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.Additional Helpful Tools & Tips• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

What does it mean to lead the church toward vitality in a time of disruption, decline, and shifting cultural landscapes? In this episode, Loren sits down with Dr. F. Douglas Powe Jr., President of Phillips Theological Seminary.  Recorded live at the General Assembly of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), this conversation explores how seminaries and congregations alike can foster authentic belonging, support diverse pathways into ministry, and reimagine theological education for the future. Doug reflects on his first six months at Phillips, the seminary's bold tuition initiative, and the vision behind Bedford House—a new space designed to embody belonging for marginalized and underrepresented communities. He also shares his hopes for how churches can model unity and reconciliation in a divided world. Topics include: Why belonging must come before believing for new generations How Bedford House embodies Phillips Seminary's commitment to inclusion The challenges and opportunities of rural and small-church ministry Alternative pathways into ministry beyond the traditional M.Div. Why theological education must adapt without losing its core formation The role of social justice engagement in calling new leaders Dr. Powe's hopes for the church in an age of disruption and division   Rev. F. Douglas Powe Jr., PhD is President of Phillips Theological Seminary in Tulsa, Okla., where he leads the seminary in its work toward deep learning, faithful leadership and global impact. An ordained elder in The United Methodist Church, Dr. Powe is a respected scholar, teacher, and author whose work explores congregational vitality, urban ministry, and innovative approaches to evangelism. Before leading Phillips, he served as Director of the Lewis Center for Church Leadership and James C. Logan Professor of Evangelism at Wesley Theological Seminary. His books include Sustaining While Disrupting, The Adept Church, and Transforming Evangelism. A graduate of Ohio Wesleyan University, Emory University's Candler School of Theology, and Emory's Graduate Division of Religion, Dr. Powe is widely sought after for his insights on faith, leadership, and the changing ministry environment.   Mentioned Resources:

On Friday, February 2, 2024, TMC hosted Finnegan-Hosey for this virtual seminar titled, "Stewarding Sacred Stories: A Shared Vocation." David is the author of "Christ on the Psych Ward" and "Grace is a Pre-Existing Condition: Faith, Systems, and Mental Healthcare." He currently serves as the minister of Bon Air Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), having previously worked in a variety of campus ministry, non-profit, and congregational settings. He holds an M.Div. from Wesley Theological Seminary and a unit of Clinical Pastoral Education from the National Institutes of Health Clinical Center.

Today I'm delighted to welcome back Leah Rampy, from Episode 41, but this time we're also joined by Beth Norcross to discuss their new book Discovering the Spiritual Wisdom of Trees. Having worked together for several years guiding groups into the forest to seek wisdom from the trees, they created a 6 week online video course & wrote their new book, which offers opportunities to consider new ways of connecting with trees.The forest can teach us about love & light but also about darkness & death. During these challenging times that are calling us to examine the path we have walked & take responsibility for creating a future that is inclusive & nurturing for all beings, we can turn to the trees for more than just strength & support. Beth & Leah share the lessons they discovered of resilience, adaptation, hope & renewal whilst amongst our tree folk. Guidance on how to connect & collaborate more closely, shifting out of the mind, allowing the heart to guide us beyond our current confined perception of life & our illusion of separation.Simple practices gently guide us to remember to walk more consciously, rediscovering the relationships familiar to our ancestors & finding the courage to move through our discomfort to ensure we do what is ours to do.Learn more about BethBeth brought her training & experience in both theology & ecology to founding The Center for Spirituality in Nature. She regularly speaks, teaches, & writes about the importance of immersion in nature as an essential way to encounter Divine Mystery deeply & intimately, & to foster a healthy, active, & loving relationship with Earth. Beth spent the early part of her career working for the U.S. Senate National Parks & Forests Subcommittee. After leaving the Senate, Beth served as Vice President of Conservation for American Rivers, then returned to school to study the interface between ecology & theology at Wesley Theological Seminary, specializing in eco-spirituality.Website: https://www.bethnorcross.com/Learn more about LeahLeah Rampy, Ph.D. is a writer, speaker, & retreat leader who weaves ecology, spirituality, personal stories, & practices to encourage others to deepen their relationship to the natural world. She is the author of Earth & Soul: Reconnecting amid Climate Chaos & the coauthor with Beth Norcross of Discovering the Spiritual Wisdom of Trees. She frequently speaks & leads programs on contemplative leadership & spiritual ecology. Leah offers retreats & programs through Friends of Silence, the Center for Spirituality in Nature, & a variety of other organizations. Leah publishes weekly essays on Reweaving Earth and Soul. Website: www.leahmoranrampy.comSpiritual Wisdom of Trees video course: https://www.centerforspiritualityinnature.org/spiritualwisdomoftreesSupport the showThank you for being part of this journey with me, please Subscribe so you don't miss our future episodes, leave a review & share with friends to help these messages ripple out across the world. More information about the Podcast & our host Fiona MacKay: Fiona Mackay Photography WebsiteConnect with us & join the conversation on social media:Instagram @FionaMacKayPhotographyFacebook @FionaMacKayPhotographyTwitter @FiMacKay

Our guest speaker for the 2025 Annual Conference is Rev. F. Douglas Powe, Jr., PhD. In this episode, we learn more about him, and what he will share with us during his time at Annual Conference. Learn more about how it's time to re-examine John Wesley's model of evangelism as a full, natural circle, where it's a communal beginning point rather than a solitary end.   Dr. Powe is the President of Phillips Theological Seminary. Powe comes to Phillips from Wesley Theological Seminary, where he served as director of The Lewis Center for Church Leadership and the James C. Logan Chair in Evangelism (an E. Stanley Jones Professorship). Powe is an ordained elder in the Baltimore/Washington Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church. He received his BA from Ohio Wesleyan University in 1987, his MDiv from Candler School of Theology at Emory University in 1998, and his PhD from Emory University in 2004. Books: Transforming Evangelism: The Wesleyan Way of Sharing Faith Sustaining While Disrupting: The Challenge of Congregational Innovation

Join us for Episode 4179 of Day1 with Rev. Dr. Hyemin Na, Assistant Professor of Worship, Media and Culture at Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, D.C. In her sermon, “Resurrection in Fits and Starts and the Abiding Jesus,” based on John 20:19-31, Dr. Na reflects on how resurrection unfolds through trauma, presence, and persistent peace. This message invites us into the second Sunday of Easter with honesty and hope. Tune in for a thoughtful exploration of faith that lingers, heals, and abides.

The Reverend Dr. Russell L. Meyer, Pastor at St. John's Lutheran Church in Jacksonville/Florida, graduated from Yale Divinity School in 1981 and was ordained in 1984. Russell has served congregations in Florida, South Carolina, Maryland and New York. He received a Doctorate of Ministry in 2013 from Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington DC, with a Certificate in Christian-Muslim Relations from the Washington Theological Consortium.Russell is a social justice pastor. He serves as Executive Director for the Florida Council of Churches. He is also the current president of the European Descent Lutheran Association for Racial Justice and chairs the Local and Regional Ecumenism Committee of the National Council of Churches.

Welcome to Mindful Leader. Your host is Dennis Shaw, a retired elder in the Mountain Sky Conference of the United Methodist Church, as he delves into the topic of leadership within the local church. In this two episode conversation, Dennis talks with Dr. Lucy Hogan, Professor Emerita of Preaching and Worship at Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, D.C. Several sites with summaries of Dr. Hogan's distinguished credentials are:  Wesley Theological Seminary Working Preacher Ministry Matters Last week (on Podbean) is here.   Dennis and Dr. Hogan discuss the importance of community, highlighting that being prophetic is not a solitary journey but one engaged in communal fellowship, challenging status quos, and offering hope. Through personal anecdotes and thoughtful reflection, the episode urges leaders to embrace empathy and imagination, cultivate courage, and rely on the Holy Spirit to guide their prophetic voice. Whether tackling social concerns or offering a pastoral approach to preaching, the episode encourages a new perspective on leadership that honors both individual and collective gifts in the pursuit of justice and truth. Anamnesis and Prolepsis defined here.  We play with this idea a little.   We mention in the podcast preaching professor Leonora Tisdale.  Here is her Yale Divinity School information and here is the book discussed.  Transcript here and this expires March 31, 2025.   Dennis here I try and weekly recommend an excellent podcast.  Today, that is here.  This is Bari Weiss speech to the Federalist Society receiving the Olson award.  Powerful.  Should you listen, ask if Weiss is speaking the truth to power.  I am an admirer of Bari.   Share, share, share!

  Welcome to Mindful Leader. Your host is Dennis Shaw, a retired elder in the Mountain Sky Conference of the United Methodist Church, as he delves into the topic of leadership within the local church. In this two episode conversation, Dennis talks with Dr. Lucy Hogan, Professor Emerita of Preaching and Worship at Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, D.C. Several sites with summaries of Dr. Hogan's distinguished credentials are:  Wesley Theological Seminary Working Preacher Ministry Matters Dr. Hogan shares her insights on leading prophetically in today's interesting times, underlining the importance of speaking truth to power. The conversation explores how both clergy and laity can engage in prophetic leadership, drawing on examples from church history and modern-day scenarios. The episode starts with a reflection from the headlines in January, 2025. It highlights inspiring stories and challenges faced by leaders who seek to navigate the intersection of faith and societal issues, inviting listeners to reflect on their roles in the broader community. This is Episode 1 of a thought-provoking, two-episode, discussion that encourages courage, humility, and love in leadership. Transcript, in theory, is HERE.  (Have been experiencing a few difficulties here. Don't hesitate to send me a note.) Episode 2 will be released on March 3, 2025. Share, share, share! Dennis email is HERE.  

(Normal release for this Podcast is Mondays.  I generally post it when it is ready, usually a few days before Mondays.  Note:  it can be shared. A reward to subscribers and those looking for the podcast on their service. A transcript is HERE. The Transcript Service provides the recording, so if you desire, you can listen while you read. (I won't get a count of you logging on, but ... )) Join Dennis Shaw, host of Mindful Leader, in a compelling conversation with Dr. Bruce Birch, retired Dean Emeritus at Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC. In this episode, they delve into the profound theme of exile as depicted in the Bible and its relevance to today's world. Dr. Birch's expertise in Old Testament and Biblical Theology sheds light on the historical and emotional aspects of exile. He explores how the concept of exile has molded responses in times of crisis, offering hope and a path to renewal. Through stories from the Biblical era to modern-day challenges, Dr. Birch discusses the importance of turning towards God's new paths, embracing change, and finding new ways to sing the Lord's song amidst adversity. Whether you are part of a faith community or navigating your personal journey, discover the lessons of resilience, creativity, and community in times of loss and transformation. This engaging dialogue examines how the faithful can find strength and purpose when the familiar is uprooted, encouraging us all to look forward to God's new future beyond nostalgia. **** Some Potential Links of Value **** Amanda McDow is the Pastor at Los Angeles First United Methodist and they are singing a new song.  Mindful Leader Podcast is HERE.   Here is Jonathon Haidt on a different topic than I promised and it is good.  I refund your subscription price if you don't like it!   The real Haidt talk I am referring to in my conversation with Dr. Birch is HERE -- it is a TED Talk from 2012.  Quite good I felt.   Next week I expect the Podcast to be on church leadership on health and wellness.  One of the guests is Tracy Reinhard and HERE is a YouTube video of her story.   Dennis email is HERE.

Join host Dennis Shaw on the Mindful Leader podcast as he engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Bruce Birch, retired Dean Emeritus at Wesley Theological Seminary. Together, they delve into the concept of exile and its impact across generations. Bruce Birch shares profound insights on the challenges faced when familiar foundations of life are questioned. Through this dialogue, listeners are invited to reflect on the resilience needed to navigate these "exile times." The entire PODCAST is HERE and on your podcast service.  

Rev. Dr. Bruce Epperly believes it can! Join us for this groundbreaking discussion about doubling down on the power of Jesus and the Holy Spirit as forces for good in our nation and the world. In the dark aftermath of the January 2020 storming of the US Capitol, Epperly was inspired to fly to his writing desk to lay out a sweeping vision for healing the American spirit. Far from shying away from Christian teaching as the source of revival in the US, he dives in deep into the prophetic iconoclasm and system-shaking theology of progressive Christianity, and makes the case for reclaiming our relationship with Jesus as a mystic, healer, and prophet.  Rev. Bruce Epperly PhD, is a multi-talented theologian, minister, professor, and author of over 80 books, including his latest, "Saving Progressive Christianity to Save the Planet." He is a pioneer in progressive Christianity and process/open and relational theology. He regularly speaks in person and on Zoom at conferences, seminars, churches and classes studying his books, and urgent topics of society, culture, politics, and faith. He also continues to teach as Adjunct Faculty at Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington DC. From his website: "I believe that we are all mystics, and that there is a mystic in you. Each of us, whether we are spiritual, religious, agnostic, seeking, struggling with belief, is on a holy adventure. Find out more about Bruce at  https://www.drbruceepperly.com. Find your guides at Quoir Academy! If you've ever deconstructed your faith you know it's not easy. But just imagine if you could have people to guide you through your process? People like, Jim Palmer, Kristin Du Mez, Jennifer Knapp, Brad Jersak, Brian Zahnd, Paul Young, and more? Well, if you head over to Quoir Academy and register for SQUARE 2 using the Promo Code [RAD] you'll get 10% off the regular registration cost of this awesome course and community just for being a fan of our show. Follow this registration link: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction?coupon=RAD

In case you were wondering, “hymnody” is an actual word and we didn't make it up. It simply means the singing or composition of hymns, religious songs or poems of praise to God. And today's guest has a lot to say about hymns.  Ted Campbell is the Albert C. Outlet Professor of Wesley Studies at Perkins School of Theology at Southern Methodist University. He has served as a United Methodist pastor and has taught at the Methodist Theological School in Ohio, Duke Divinity School, and Wesley Theological Seminary. He is the author of many books, including Wesleyan Beliefs, The Gospel of Christian Tradition, and most recently A Core Methodist Hymnal, which is more like a devotional and less like a traditional hymnal.Resources:Learn more about Ted at his website, tedcampbell.comBuy A Core Methodist Hymnal

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!How can our churches reach out to families with autistic members in such a way that the Gospel is good news for them?  And how might we need to adapt the way we do church in order to be good news for those with autism in their families?Dr. David Quel, adjunct professor at Wesley Theological Seminary--and father to three autistic sons--reveals strategies for creating a welcoming environment in our churches for families with autistic members, how to adapt our ministries to meet their needs, and the emotional and spiritual journey of parenting autistic children.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:David Quel shares how he and his wife discovered that not just one, but all three of his sons were autistic.It was difficult for David Quel and his wife to find the kind of family and church support they needed as a family with three non-high-functioning autistic children.David Quel underscores the essential need for emotional, spiritual, mental, and compassionate awareness of autism in church ministry.David Quel shares a story about his church setting up a sensory room designed specifically for children with autism.This sensory room included items like big fluffy pillows, beanbags, and sensory toys to ensure children's safety.David Quel discusses challenges and solutions in creating worship services tailored for children with autism.Traditional formats like responsive readings and long sermons are challenging for children with autism.David Quel highlights the need for music that is more upbeat to engage children with autism compared to traditional hymns.Efforts by David's church to create separate worship services showed significant commitment but also revealed the struggle to let go of traditional practices.David Quel recommends the book Autism and Your Church by Barbara J. Newman for further guidance.Interviewing families to understand their specific needs and triggers is crucial to contextual ministry.Identifying willing volunteers with relevant experience or a willingness to learn can make a significant difference when adapting your church ministry to families with autism.David Quel emphasizes seeing individuals with autism as God's creations, deserving of love and support.Steps churches can take to support families with autism:Set up sensory roomsTailor specialized worship servicesInterview and understand families with autismIdentify and train volunteersPromote inclusivityRELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:BeADisciple.comAutism and the Church Part 1Autism and the Church Part 2Wesley Theological SeminaryBooks mentioned:Autism and Your Church, by Barbara J. NewmanRelated Episodes:Tackling Adaptive Challenges in Your Church, with Angie WardExploring New Forms of Church, with Shannon KiserDid you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Navigating end-of-life conversations can be emotionally challenging and riddled with uncertainties. Many individuals and families struggle to broach topics surrounding preferences for care, leaving them ill-prepared for crucial decisions during times of crisis. In this episode, we embark on a journey to explore practical strategies and insights aimed at facilitating these delicate discussions with compassion and clarity. By providing actionable guidance and fostering a deeper understanding of end-of-life care, this episode equips listeners with the tools needed to approach these conversations thoughtfully, empowering them to honor personal values and preferences with confidence. Dr. Bob and Elizabeth Uslander co-founded Empowered Endings, a unique palliative and end-of-life care model addressing the physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual needs of patients and families. Bob Uslander, MD, received his Medical Degree from the UCLA Geffen School of Medicine and practiced medicine in Emergency, Palliative, and end-of-life care for over 30 years. Elizabeth Uslander, MSW MTS, received her BA cum laude from Georgetown University and earned her Master's degrees at USC and Wesley Theological Seminary. Check out the transcript of this episode on Dr. Jessica Higgin's website. In this episode 03:49 Bob's transition from emergency medicine to palliative care and the founding of Empowered Endings with Elizabeth. 09:12 Elizabeth's journey in spiritual care and social work shaping palliative and end of life care focus. 11:47 Integrating end-of-life doulas in comprehensive care planning and support. 18:48 The importance of having proactive, intentional discussions about end-of-life preferences within couples. 32:54 The role of spiritual practices and emotional connection in navigating end-of-life conversations within relationships. 38:29 Cultivating readiness and practical tools for end-of-life conversations. Mentioned Links here Connect with Dr. Bob and Elizabeth Uslander Websites: empoweredendings.com Facebook: facebook.com/empowerendings YouTube: youtube.com/@Empowered-Endings Instagram: instagram.com/empowered_endings_ LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/empowered-endings Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins Facebook: facebook.com/EmpoweredRelationship  Instagram: instagram.com/drjessicahiggins  Podcast: drjessicahiggins.com/podcasts/ Pinterest: pinterest.com/EmpowerRelation  LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drjessicahiggins  Twitter: @DrJessHiggins  Website: drjessicahiggins.com   Email: jessica@drjessicahiggins.com If you have a topic you would like me to discuss, please contact me by clicking on the “Ask Dr. Jessica Higgins” button here.  Thank you so much for your interest in improving your relationship.  Also, I would so appreciate your honest rating and review. Please leave a review by clicking here.  Thank you!   *With Amazon Affiliate Links, I may earn a few cents from Amazon, if you purchase the book from this link.

Unleash Your Leadership Superpowers Bishop Warner H. Brown is a retired bishop of The United Methodist Church, serving from 2000 to 2016.  He is currently serving as an interim bishop of the Sierra Leone Episcopal Area in the West Africa Central Conference.  

 From 2014 to 2016, Bishop Brown was the President of the Council of Bishops.
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Bishop Brown was born and raised as an only child in Baltimore, Maryland, the son of Ida and Warner Brown. At the age of thirteen, while reading the New Testament, he felt a call to serve. He began preaching as a youth and was encouraged to continue doing so. As a young adult, he attended the University of Maryland, (B.A. in Sociology, 1969.) He also graduated from Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC with a Master of Divinity degree.

 In 1973 Warner was ordained deacon in the Baltimore Annual Conference by Bishop James K. Mathews. Yet his movement west had already begun with a pastoral appointment in the Western Pennsylvania Annual Conference as both the pastor of a church and Director of Bethany House Ministries in Pittsburgh, a social service ministry for two housing projects. While serving in western Pennsylvania, he was ordained elder in 1975 by Bishop Roy C. Nichols. In 1979, he answered a national search for an associate conference staff position in the California-Nevada Conference and transferred there. Once in California, it was only six months later that he was asked to serve as Conference Council Director.

 From this role of program and administrative oversight for the Conference, Warner was appointed just four years later to the Superintendency of the Golden Gate District, the richly diverse area including San Francisco and several rural and suburban counties along the Pacific Coast. Four years after that, he was given the charge of the Taylor Memorial UMC in Oakland, CA. While serving this significant congregation, the community was then assaulted by the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake and two years later the holocaust of fires in the Oakland hills. As chairperson of the Oakland Inter-religious Network for responding to this disaster, Warner led the community's ecumenical disaster response.

 Throughout these years, Warner has been active in the social justice ministries and programs of those communities and church connections where he has been appointed. To list but a sampling: Volunteer Police Chaplain, Trustee of the Glide Foundation, vice-chair of the Community Advisory Commission for Alameda County Medical Center, member of the Governing Board of United Way for Kern County, a member of the. Board of Directors for the Bakersfield Homeless Shelter, recipient of the 1996 Outstanding Leadership and Service Award for Emergency Response Ministries, given by UMCOR, and recipient of a 1998 Special Congressional Recognition from Congresswoman Barbara Lee. 

Warner's leadership in the church has included service as a delegate to General Conference twice, member of the General Commission on Religion and Race, a faculty member for New DS/CCD training, Harry Hoosier Member of and twice the host for the National Black Methodists for Church Renewal, chair of the Board of Missions in California-Nevada Annual Conference as well as numerous other conference boards and agencies, adjunct consultant to the Alban Institute, and a Wesley Seminary Distinguished Alumni. 

Following a successful eleven-year pastorate in Oakland, Warner was given a new challenge as Senior Pastor of the predominantly white yet multi-ethnic First UMC of Bakersfield, CA. Only two years into this pastorate, he was nominated and endorsed by his conference for the episcopacy: at the Western Jurisdiction Conference Sessions in Casper, Wyoming, and in July of 2000 he was elected to the episcopacy on the 19th ballot and assigned to the Denver Area. He retired in July 2016.

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A Time and A Place A Guest Sermon by Michel Martin at Foundry United Methodist Church on Sunday April 28th, 2024 as part of the "The Power of So That" Series at Foundry. Today's Guest Preacher: Michel Martin is a host of Morning Edition on NPR. Previously, she was the weekend host of All Things Considered and the Consider This Saturday podcast, where she drew on her deep reporting and interviewing experience to dig into the week's news. Outside the studio, she has also hosted “Michel Martin: Going There,” an ambitious live event series in collaboration with Member stations. Martin has also served as a contributor and substitute host for NPR news magazines and talk shows, including Talk of the Nation and News & Notes. A native of Brooklyn, N.Y., Martin graduated cum laude from Radcliffe College at Harvard University in 1980 and earned a Master of Arts from the Wesley Theological Seminary in 2016. Michel has been a longtime Foundry member, along with her family, Billy, Aminah, and William.          Scripture Text: PSALM 22:25-31 AND 1 JOHN 4:7-21 https://foundryumc.org/archive

So, you're trying to sustain a church for continued health... while also disrupting the status quo... impossible, right? Not so, says Pastor and author Doug Powe. In this episode, we talk about his book Sustaining While Disrupting, emphasizing the importance of thinking like an outsider, taking risks, and putting aside convictions. Doug makes his case from the stories of the early church in Acts.  He also addresses the challenges of navigating disputes in the church, particularly regarding issues like women pastors and LGBT inclusion. Doug advises honoring convictions while allowing for change over time. He emphasizes the need for clarity in mission and the reasons behind initiatives, while also pointing out why change fails and the importance of authentic conversations. Frederick Douglas Powe, Jr. is the Director of the Lewis Center for Church Leadership and the James C. Logan Professor of Evangelism at Wesley Theological Seminary. Dr. Powe is an ordained elder in the Baltimore/Washington Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church.  His newest co-authored book, Sustaining While Disrupting: The Challenge of Congregational Innovation, was the number newly released church leadership and administration book. Another recent book, The Adept Church: Navigating Between a Rock and a Hard Place, was the number one newly released church growth book just a month after being released. Dr. Powe is also known for his work in Wesleyan evangelism with titles like, Transforming Community: The Wesleyan Way to Missional Congregations and Transforming Evangelism: The Wesleyan Way of Sharing Faith, both co-authored with H. Henry Knight III.  Dr. Powe is a forerunner in African American evangelism, a few of his contributions include: Not Safe for Church: The Ten Commandments for Reaching New Generations, co-authored with Rev. Jasmine Smothers, and New Wine, New Wineskins: How African American Congregations Can Reach New Generations.  He holds a Ph.D. in Systematic Theology from Emory University (2004), a Master of Divinity from Candler School of Theology (1998), and a Bachelor of Arts from Ohio Wesleyan University (1987).   Doug's socials are: Twitter/X: @fdpjr Facebook: @frederick.powe   Lewis Center socials: Twitter/X: @lewisleadership Facebook: @lewisleadership Instagram: @lewiscenterleadership YouTube: @lewisleadership https://www.churchleadership.com.   Previous Episode with Doug: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/doug-powe-describes-the-adept-church/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer Danny Burton - Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer  

Building on their conversation in Part 1, Ilia Delio and Bruce Epperly unpack what it means to see the divine in the other. They discuss the need for sacrificial living and a return to some of the basic practices of global spiritual traditions. Bruce tells us how these ideas affect his understanding of his own privilege, and how process theology can help us build better relationships in our communities.ABOUT BRUCE EPPERLY“Healing can occur in any circumstance, because God is the source of abundance and new life in all things. Even when no physical cure is possible, we can experience a peace that enables us to face life's most difficult challenges with a sense of hope and equanimity.”Bruce Epperly, Ph.D., has served as a congregational pastor and university chaplain, university and seminary professor and administrator, and is a prolific author and lectionary commentator. With over forty years joining pulpit and classroom, Bruce recently retired from congregational ministry after serving eight years as Senior Pastor of South Congregational Church, United Church of Christ, Centerville, MA. He has relocated from Cape Cod to the Washington D.C. suburbs to be closer to his family. He continues to teach as Adjunct Faculty at Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington D.C.Support the showA huge thank you to all of you who subscribe and support our show! Support for A Hunger for Wholeness comes from the Fetzer Institute. Fetzer supports a movement of organizations who are applying spiritual solutions to society's toughest problems. Get involved at fetzer.org. Support 'Hunger for Wholeness' on Patreon as our team continues to develop content for listeners to dive deeper. Visit the Center for Christogenesis' website at christogenesis.org to browse all Hunger for Wholeness episodes and read more from Ilia Delio. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter for episode releases and other updates.

Ilia Delio is joined by process theologian Bruce Epperly for an honest conversation looking at the divisiveness at work in our communities and politics. Bruce gives an introduction to process theology (or process relational theology) and together they unpack how the basic conceptual shifts promoted by process theology can help to heal our communities and guide our interactions with people who challenge us to a better future. ABOUT BRUCE EPPERLY“Healing can occur in any circumstance, because God is the source of abundance and new life in all things. Even when no physical cure is possible, we can experience a peace that enables us to face life's most difficult challenges with a sense of hope and equanimity.”Bruce Epperly, Ph.D., has served as a congregational pastor and university chaplain, university and seminary professor and administrator, and is a prolific author and lectionary commentator. With over forty years joining pulpit and classroom, Bruce recently retired from congregational ministry after serving eight years as Senior Pastor of South Congregational Church, United Church of Christ, Centerville, MA. He has relocated from Cape Cod to the Washington D.C. suburbs to be closer to his family. He continues to teach as Adjunct Faculty at Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington D.C.Support the showA huge thank you to all of you who subscribe and support our show! Support for A Hunger for Wholeness comes from the Fetzer Institute. Fetzer supports a movement of organizations who are applying spiritual solutions to society's toughest problems. Get involved at fetzer.org. Support 'Hunger for Wholeness' on Patreon as our team continues to develop content for listeners to dive deeper. Visit the Center for Christogenesis' website at christogenesis.org to browse all Hunger for Wholeness episodes and read more from Ilia Delio. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter for episode releases and other updates.

The Rev. Dr. Amy Butler is a master at facing reality and claiming leadership. In her newly released memoir, Beautiful and Terrible Things: Faith, Doubt, and Discovering a Way Back to Each Other, she weaves together what is real and messy and hard with what is true and hopeful and redemptive, reminding us that the journey of faith is inextricably all those things. In our conversation with Pastor Amy, we get to experience a powerful leader, whose vulnerability and honesty offer a witness of the kind of leadership our beautiful (and terrible) world needs today. We hope you find it inspiring as you seek to navigate and lead in this season! If this podcast is meaningful to you, please share with friends and colleagues and leave us a review. Thanks for listening!In this conversation, you'll hear:Why Amy chose “Beautiful and Terrible Things” as her theme and book titleThe beautiful and terrible things present in the church todayThe connection between vulnerability and leadership and how Amy has leaned into vulnerabilityAmy's vision for Invested Faith, the philanthropic initiative she founded An excerpt from Amy's bookAbout Amy ButlerRev. Dr. Amy Butler is the founder of the philanthropic initiative Invested Faith. She previously served as the first woman senior minister of The Riverside Church in New York City, senior pastor of Calvary Baptist Church (D.C.), associate pastor at St. Charles Avenue Baptist Church in New Orleans, and intentional interim minister at National City Christian Church (D.C.). Pastor Amy holds degrees from Baylor University, the International Baptist Theological Seminary, and Wesley Theological Seminary. A mother of three children, she currently lives in Hawaii.Amy Butler's website: https://www.pastoramy.com/Invested Faith's website: https://www.investedfaith.org/Amy's book is Beautiful and Terrible Things: Faith, Doubt, and Discovering a Way Back to Each Other.To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode's topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?

Episode Summary: In this episode of the L3 Leadership Podcast, Dr. Asa Lee, President of the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, joins us and shares his unique journey from the classrooms of public education to the holy halls of ministry and academia and the reasons for his professional choices. About Dr. Asa Lee: Rev. Dr. Asa J. Lee, a respected leader in theological education, assumed the role of President at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary on June 7, 2021. With degrees from Hampton University, Wesley Theological Seminary, and Virginia Theological Seminary, Dr. Lee brings a wealth of academic and pastoral experience. Previously serving at Wesley Theological Seminary in various capacities, including vice president and director of African-American studies, Dr. Lee is known for fostering inclusive and academically rigorous environments. He is an ordained minister with a decade of pastoral experience at Mount Olive Baptist Church in Arlington, Va. Dr. Lee is a member of several prestigious organizations, reflecting his commitment to advancing equity, diversity, and inclusion in theological education. As President, he envisions leading Pittsburgh Theological Seminary to rediscover its core strengths and embrace new opportunities in theological education. With a collaborative spirit and innovative thinking, Dr. Lee, alongside his wife, the Rev. Chenda Innis Lee, is set to shape the future of the seminary, equipping students for pastoral ministry in the Presbyterian tradition.4 Key Takeaways:1. Dr. Lee navigates through the sacrifice necessary to hone leadership skills.2. He shares his views on the power of intentional community building and the surprising perspective gained from parenthood. 3. He also reveals his unconventional stress-busting techniques i.e., Lego building and gardening, which might inspire you to pick up a new hobby!4. We delve into the significance of availability in leadership, the art of building a robust culture, and handling the weight of pressure.Quotes From the Episode:“Who you choose on your team helps to build the culture you want to have.”“The demands on being a neighbor aren't religious, they're communal, they're shared.”Resources Mentioned:LegosPittsburgh Theological SeminaryConnect with Dr. Lee:Linkedin | BlogRegister for our L3 One Day 2024 Leadership Conference at L3OneDay.com!

In her recent memoir, Beautiful and Terrible Things: Faith, Doubt, and Discovering A Way Back to Each Other, Rev. Dr. Amy Butler shares about finding her way through wreckage after wreckage. A deeply personal, yet incredibly universal memoir. She's here with us today to share more of her story, talk about where God's Spirit has been nudging her lately, and, of course, what she is still learning.Important LinksLearn more about Pastor AmyLearn more about Invested Faith   Order Pastor Amy's new book, Beautiful and Terrible ThingsAbout AmyPastor Amy believes deeply that courageous communities of people who live with tenacious love can change the world.  Much of her career has been spent helping build communities of radical witness in the institutional church. She is currently serving as Designated Pastor at the Community Church of Honolulu in Hawai'i.Before that, Amy served for for five years as the seventh Senior Minister and first woman at the helm of The Riverside Church in the City of New York. She holds degrees from Baylor University, the International Baptist Theological Seminary, and Wesley Theological Seminary. Pastor Amy's professional ministry career began as the director of a homeless shelter for women in New Orleans, Louisiana; she later became Associate Pastor of Membership and Mission at St. Charles Avenue Baptist Church in the city of New Orleans. In 2003, Butler was called to the position of Senior Minister of Calvary Baptist Church in Washington, D.C.'s Chinatown, where she was also the first woman to lead that historic congregation.  Though leading institutions of faith in this moment can be one of the most challenging leadership tasks around, she is optimistic about the impact faith communities have on the world. When she's not busy leading, teaching, preaching or writing, Pastor Amy enjoys the beach (obviously), and hanging out with friends. She is an avid reader and loves to write, recently completing her first memoir, now published by Penguin Random House Books. Pastor Amy is mom to three amazing young adults who are each making their way in the world; they are her favorites.  Connect with us!Sign up to receive a little Gospel in your inbox every Monday Morning with our weekly devotional.Check out our website for great resources, previous blog posts, and more.Get some Lady Preacher Podcast swag!Find us on Instagram and Facebook

How can churches foster innovation and reinvent their ministry in today's changing world? Meghan Hatcher, the Director of the Innovation Laboratory at the Center for Youth Ministry Training, joins the pod to share ideas. Meghan talks about her personal experience of taking a break and returning to the church. She also explains the purpose and approach of the Innovation Lab, which aims to help faith communities reinvent ministry models across the whole church. Meghan emphasizes the importance of creating psychological safety and fostering inclusivity within churches. She also discusses measuring ministry effectiveness, the value of buy-in and democratized leadership, and supporting churches dealing with affiliation challenges.  Meghan Hatcher currently serves as the director of the Innovation Laboratory, an initiative of the Center for Youth Ministry Training (CYMT). She holds a Bachelor of Journalism and Master of Science in Sustainable Development & Applied Sociology from the University of Missouri, and a Master of Divinity with a specialization in community engagement from Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, D.C. The thread that runs throughout Meghan's academic and professional experiences is the power of story to knit communities together around a collective vision. She is a graduate of The Life Stories Institute in Washington, D.C., and has a tremendous passion for guiding individuals to reflect on their personal stories and the timeless stories of faith. Meghan has served rural, urban, and suburban congregational settings in the areas of pastoral leadership, innovative ministry development, youth ministry, new church development, and community engagement. Meghan makes her home in Austin with her spouse Corey.   Future Christian is supported by: Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian' Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.  

Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! During the summer, we take a pause from the Narrative Lectionary, and we are delighted to offer three unique sermon series opportunities over the coming weeks. Today's sermon is part 2 of a 4-week series on the theme of "Wisdom." This sermon is based on Proverbs 8. We hope it will be a word of encouragement and blessing to you this week. We were delighted to welcome the Rev. Dr. Starlette Thomas to our pulpit to share it. Author, activist, visual artist, race abolitionist and archivist, Reverend Dr. Starlette Thomas is a womanist in ministry and the principal architect of a raceless world. A pastor, denominational leader and clergy coach, she is a natural shepherd of words and people, leading them to their most authentic and best expression. Starlette regularly writes on the sociopolitical construct of race and its longstanding membership in the North American church as an associate editor and the director of The Raceless Gospel Initiative at Good Faith Media. Her podcast, The Raceless Gospel, takes her listeners to church and to a virtual church service where she and her guests tackle that taboo trinity— race, religion and politics. An unrepentant academician and bibliophile, Starlette graduated in May with a Doctor of Ministry degree from Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, D.C. Her thesis is titled "Take me to the water: A raceless gospel as baptismal pedagogy for a desegregated church." To find out more about our summer sermon series, you can visit https://www.williamsburgbaptist.com/2023-summer-sermon-series.html. If you have a moment, we'd also love for you to click over to follow us on Instagram or Facebook. We are a small but vibrant and growing congregation, and there are lots of ways to connect. Please don't hesitate to reach out if we can help support you in any way! Thanks so much for tuning in!

Mary Amendolia Gardener reads her review, "Spirit in the Dark Brings Religious Influence to Light," a review of the Smithsonian National Museum of African American History and Culture's exhibit, Spirit in the Dark: Religion in Black Music, Activism and Popular Culture. The exhibit is on view through November 2023. A companion searchable digital exhibit is also available through the Searchable Museum website. The Rev. Dr. Mary Amendolia Gardner is an Anglican priest and Spiritual Director with Coracle. She recently completed her DMin. in Curating Community through the Arts at Wesley Theological Seminary and is also a practicing artist. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/vita-poetica/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/vita-poetica/support

This month's episode of the Academy Podcast features teaching from Amy Oden on the topic of “Meeting God in Our Longing” from the 2021 cohort of Spiritual Formation in Today's World. Amy explores the art of discerning between the way that leads to life and the way that leads to death by paying attention to our deepest longings. She emphasizes that in our fast-paced and noisy world, practicing mindfulness, or pausing to listen within, can help us recognize what our soul needs and guide us in making the choices that will bring freedom and aliveness. Born and raised on the prairies of Oklahoma, Amy has found her spiritual home under the wide-open sky. She earned her PhD in Religious Studies at Southern Methodist University, writing her dissertation on Augustine. Over the last 30 years, she has served on the faculties of Oklahoma City University, Saint Paul School of Theology and Wesley Theological Seminary where she also served as Dean. She now is an itinerant professor, teaching at several schools in the areas of theology and history of Christianity and spiritual formation. She is also a spiritual director, companioning people as they listen for God in day-to-day life. Amy is committed in her scholarship to illuminating ancient voices for Christian life today, introducing spiritual practices that can ground and nourish lives of following Jesus into the world. Her most recent book is "Right Here, Right Now: The Practice of Christian Mindfulness." The 2024 cohort of Spiritual Formation in Today's World begins February 1-3, 2024. You can learn more and apply at academy.upperroom.org/event/sftw-2023/.

When it comes to participation in church, the stats about Millenials and Gen Z are startlingly low. What if part of the problem is the "expression" of church they have available to them? In this talk from Kris Beckert, you'll learn from her experience of forming Fresh Expressions of Church with and for Young Adults.Fresh Expressions is a worldwide movement of everyday missionaries who want to see churches thrive in the places we live, eat, work and play by leveraging the creativity and endurance of the inherited church. To learn a simple five-phase process for starting a new expression of church go to freshexpressions.com/howtostart.Kris is pastor of Table Life Church. She completed the M.Div. at Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC and has served at churches in the Baptist, United Methodist, and Nazarene traditions. Prior to being called to ministry, she received an M.S. in environmental science from the University of Maryland, where she also worked in the field, researching coastal environments and enhancing science communication. Kris is an avid runner, cartoonist, and archer and enjoys cheering for her Carolina TarHeels and Philadelphia Phillies.Season three is brought to you by FX Connect, an online community full of other church leaders passionate about reaching new people in new places. Access our entire library of practical and inspiring training materials and connect with other church leaders at fxconnectus.org.

How do you teach people about Jesus without using a typical "sermon?" In this episode, you'll hear from Verlon Fosner and Kris Beckert about "Jesus Stories," a simple, Biblical and enjoyable approach that fits well in settings like Dinner Church.Fresh Expressions is a worldwide movement of everyday missionaries who want to see churches thrive in the places we live, eat, work and play by leveraging the creativity and endurance of the inherited church. To learn a simple five-phase process for starting a new expression of church go to freshexpressions.com/howtostart.Season three is brought to you by FX Connect, an online community full of other church leaders passionate about reaching new people in new places. Access our entire library of practical and inspiring training materials and connect with other church leaders at fxconnectus.org.Verlon Fosner & his wife Melodee have been in church leadership for 35 years, and for the past 18 years have served a 93 year-old church in Seattle, Washington. In 2004, their long effective church began to decline, and they were faced with the decision: move to the suburbs or become an urban church. They felt called to not only stay, but to dive further into the urban neighborhoods of Seattle – especially the ones with a sparse church presence.  What began as an urban Dinner Church spread into a multi-site Dinner Church, and then expanded into a national Dinner Church Network. Kris Beckert is pastor of Table Life Church. She completed the M.Div. at Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC and has served at churches in the Baptist, United Methodist, and Nazarene traditions. Prior to being called to ministry, she received an M.S. in environmental science from the University of Maryland, where she also worked in the field, researching coastal environments and enhancing science communication. Kris is an avid runner, cartoonist, and archer and enjoys cheering for her Carolina TarHeels and Philadelphia Phillies. 

Our traditional understanding of church and unity is being stretched as we make room for unconventional forms of community such as house churches and independent congregations. The Holy Spirit is moving, revealing, shifting, empowering, guiding, and gifting churches in new ways! It can be kind of scary too. In this interview we discuss the difference between biblical unity versus organizational conformity. What does the Bible say about Unity? In what ways has your congregation embraced unity? How has conformity affected the next generation? Why did your congregation leave the ICOC? How does culture contribute to an understanding of unity? About Will Archer: William Archer is a visionary Lead Pastor with over twenty-five years of experience leading missional communities in diverse ministry settings. He is an innovative Evangelist with a proven capacity to cultivate and amplify theologically sound and culturally relevant messaging across multiple digital platforms. He is deeply devoted to developing healthy communities of faith that engage the business community and community partners committed to helping the least of these in the Commonwealth of Virginia. He has served on several boards nationally and internationally. He is an alumnus of the 2019 Class of Leadership Prince William and of the 2022 Class of Lead Virginia. Pastor Archer has an Undergraduate degree in Public Policy from Arcadia University and a Master's degree from Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC. He is currently a Doctorate of Ministry candidate at Virginia Theological Seminary in Alexandria, Virginia. He has been married to the love of his life, Latosha Archer, for 23 years, and they have two adventurous children, 20-year-old Mekhi and 14 year-old Journey. He serves as the Lead Pastor for the Potomac Valley Church. The Potomac Valley Church is an Independent Christian congregation in Northern Virginia with a deep commitment to serving all people.

Join us as we delve into the fascinating and complex world of religion in American diplomacy as your Faithful Host chats with former diplomat, Shaun Casey, who created the first state department agency to explore the role of religion in American foreign policy. Casey, a seasoned diplomat, has been at the forefront of bridging the gap between diplomacy and religion. He offers recommendations based on his unique experiences and shares some of the key lessons and best practices he's gleaned over the years. Casey is known not only for his professional prowess but also for maintaining a fine balance between his personal faith and his role as a diplomat. We delve into the nuances of his approach and explore some of the ethical dilemmas or challenges that arise when engaging with religious actors and partners then we discuss the groundbreaking office that Casey created and directed at the US Department of State. We explore its mission, its achievements, and its potential future trajectory. One of the most enlightening parts of our conversation revolves around Casey's definition of religion and its critical role in diplomacy. He sheds light on the importance of understanding religious contexts in international relations, using concrete examples of how misinterpretations have led to tragic consequences."Decoding Diplomacy" is your passport to understanding the intertwined worlds of religion and diplomacy, providing a fresh perspective on international relations. Join us as we unpack the intricate dynamics at play in our increasingly interconnected world.If you're interested in the book that was discussed on the episode, "Chasing the Devil at Foggy Bottom: The Future of Religion in American Diplomacy" please visit https://www.eerdmans.com/Products/8170/chasing-the-devil-at-foggy-bottom.aspxGuest Bio:Shaun Casey is a senior fellow with the Luce Project on Religion and Its Publics at the University of Virginia and a Pulaski Institution non-resident fellow. He served as director of the Berkley Center for Religion, Peace, and World Affairs and professor of the practice in the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University from 2017 to 2021. He previously was U.S. special representative for religion and global affairs and director of the U.S. Department of State's Office of Religion and Global Affairs. He has also served as professor of Christian ethics at Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC, and held positions at the Center for American Progress and the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Casey has written on the ethics of the war in Iraq, as well the role of religion in American presidential politics. He is the author of The Making of a Catholic President: Kennedy vs. Nixon 1960 (2009) and co-editor of The Oxford Handbook of Political Theology (forthcoming, with Michael Kessler); he is writing a book on ethics and international politics tentatively titled Niebuhr's Children. Casey holds a B.A. from Abilene Christian University, MPA from Harvard Kennedy School, and M.Div. and Th.D. in religion and society from Harvard Divinity School.Support the showTo learn more about the show, contact our hosts, or recommend future guests, click on the links below: Website: https://www.faithfulpoliticspodcast.com/ Faithful Host: Josh@faithfulpoliticspodcast.com Political Host: Will@faithfulpoliticspodcast.com Twitter: @FaithfulPolitik Instagram: faithful_politics Facebook: FaithfulPoliticsPodcast LinkedIn: faithfulpolitics

This is the second episode in a series of three talking about Christianity and the Church today. The hope for this series is to go beyond denomination and institution.  The purpose is to dive into hard topics that come up as challenges for Christians and Church culture today; and simply talk about it with Christian leaders. This deep dive, is with Reverend Megan Blanchard. She is bringing deep thought, reflection and a real passion for the topic. The conversation ended and I felt like going to church, because Rev. Megan shines a joyful light on church even in challenging times. We talk about the hypocrisy of Christianity today, the church and community connection and the need for trust, and there seems to be a theme of exploring: What is it that Christians are called to do? Rev. Megan Blanchard is a “Carolina Girl” from the small town of Midland, NC. She graduated from Davidson College with a BA of Spanish and BA of Political Science. Post graduation she worked in finance and operations in corporate America for over five years before sensing a call to ministry. Upon discerning her call, she relocated to the Washington, D.C. area in 2013 to pursue a dual Masters in Theological Studies from Wesley Theological Seminary and International Development from American University. Rev. Blanchard is an ordained Deacon of the Baltimore-Washington Conference of the United Methodist Church. Her call and passion are to serve in ministry areas that connect the church and the world, protect the vulnerable, and serve the marginalized. She currently does this through her ministry as an English teacher at Epworth's Ana A. Brito Foundation in Gaithersburg, MD and local church ministry at Fairhaven UMC in Darnestown, MD. When she is not serving in these places you can most likely find her having fun with her family: her husband – Trey, her two young daughters – Susannah and Emma, and their dog – Layla. I'd love to hear from you, send me an email at info@kariprimozic.com. Follow me on IG at: Kari, Courageous Living (@karicourageousliving) | Instagram or FB at: (2) Courageous Living | Facebook --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/thecourage/message

This is the first episode in a series of three talking about Christianity and the Church today. The hope for this series is to go beyond denomination and institution.  The purpose is to dive into hard topics that come up as challenges for Christians and Church culture today; and simply talk about it with Christian leaders. In this episode, Reverend Timothy B. Warner is sharing his wisdom, insight and experience as a Church Leader with us. We are talking about the demands of discipleship, church hypocrisy, and can we Christians really be Jesus like? (And so much more!) Reverend Timothy B. Warner was called to the gospel ministry while serving as a Deacon at Mt. Calvary Baptist Church of Rockville, MD in 1996. He was licensed to preach in 1998 and ordained to pastoral ministry after he completed his Master of Divinity degree at Wesley Theological Seminary in 2003. Reverend Warner was trained as a bacterial geneticist and enjoyed a productive career in pharmaceutical research and development, where he held various scientific and executive leadership positions for over 18 years before committing to full-time ministry. He has served as the Associate Council Director for Community and Economic Development in the Baltimore-Washington Conference of the United Methodist Church, on the staff of the Montgomery County Executive in his Office of Community Partnerships as the Community Liaison for the African American and Faith Communities, and as Chief Engagement and Partnership Officer for Montgomery County Public Schools. He is a frequent lecturer in community engagement for several graduate schools, and has received Wesley Theological Seminary's Urban Ministry Distinguished Alumnus Award.  Rev. Warner is proud to have served for the last 9 years as Senior Pastor of the Emory Grove United Methodist Church in Gaithersburg, MD, where he is a co-founder of the Racial Justice Coalition. Most recently, he has founded The Heritage Emory Grove Community Development Corporation which is leading in a partnership to redevelop the historical Emory Grove community and restore a sense of authentic community.  He also serves as the Director for Faith Relations at Habitat for Humanity of Metro Maryland where he helps to engage faith communities in the justice ministry of affordable housing in Montgomery and Prince Georges Counties. He believes in the power of prayer, and attributes whatever success that has been ascribed to his ministry to the great many conversations so many have had with God on his behalf.  Rev. Warner shares an extreme sense of pride in the family God has given him with his wife, Paula, of nearly 4 decades.  I would love to hear from you!  Leave me a message via Anchor at:  https://anchor.fm/momcourage/message or send me an email at info@kariprmozic.com. Check out my website to learn more about courageous conversations:  ⁠Courageous Conversations | Courageousliving (kariprimozic.com) --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/thecourage/message

There has been increasing attention to the issue of food insecurity among college students. Estimates vary, but to provide some perspective, one report found that a staggering 30% of all college students experienced food insecurity at some point in their college careers. In response to the COVID-19 pandemic, the US temporarily extended the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits to college-aged students. But now this pandemic help is set to expire, impacting more than three million college students who have relied on this program for food. Today we speak with Heather Taylor, a former US delegate to the United Nations, and now managing director of Bread for the World. Having experienced severe food insecurity as an undergraduate student at Georgetown University, she now advocates for SNAP expansion for college students and other marginalized groups facing food insecurity. Interview Summary   This is a really interesting topic and an important one because so many people are affected. I know recently there have been more surveys, more awareness to the issue and so finally people are beginning to pay attention. I know judging from the response at our own university, that universities are paying attention to this too. But let's talk about the bigger picture of this: how the benefits at the national level are important. Tell me a little bit more about your work with Bread for the World.   Bread for the World is a faith-based organization that works alongside community groups and congregations across the country to urge primarily members of Congress to pass legislation that addresses hunger and poverty, both here in the United States and abroad as well. We spend a lot of our time equipping community groups so that they are empowered to speak with their members of Congress and talk about issues that are impacting them on the ground.   I mentioned in my introduction that you experienced food insecurity yourself as a college student. How has that impacted your work today?   It really underscores the conviction and the passion that I have around food insecurity, including the way in which it impacts college students. It's such a critical time in one's life, if one is blessed to have the opportunity to attend college, to shape their future, their career path. It's essential that students are nourished and that they have the time necessary to invest in their studies, in some cases extracurricular activities, to perform well and to be able to compete in the market, to contribute to society as a whole. I have experienced firsthand how difficult it can be, what a struggle it is to worry about working on top of investing some 60 to 80 hours a week in one's studies and classes alone, to worry about where one's next meal is coming from. It's really put me in a position to hopefully speak effectively firsthand about what one's experience may be. But also, about what some of the practical solutions are to address food insecurity that individuals, and in this case college students themselves may be experiencing today.   That this problem occurs among college students might come as a surprise to some people because they think kids go to college, they pay for tuition and they pay for room and board and they get fed meals in their dorms and things like that. How does food insecurity come about?   So a lot of times the financial aid, be it student loans or other grants, goes toward college tuition, but not necessarily meal programs. Students are given options to choose meal programs. Some may be three to five meals per week. That was typically the program that I selected, not necessarily 14 to 21 square meals which is what is necessary to ensure that students are not food insecure. That is because these individuals simply may not be able to afford these meal programs. Secondly, while they may not be able to afford them, they could under certain laws be eligible to receive SNAP benefits, but oftentimes students aren't even aware that they may be eligible. While they may have access to certain programs, like federal work study programs that are advertised when students are filling out FAFSA forms, for example, information around the SNAP program may not be as readily available. Because again, any support that they may receive through loans or grants is typically going toward tuition, perhaps books and other necessities, then food security is still an issue that is at stake.   Very helpful background. I know in addition to that, there are large numbers of individuals who don't live on campus, like those who are attending community colleges or graduate and professional students who may not be living in dormitories and don't have meal plans and things like that. It's easy to see how so many people might be affected by this. Let's talk about the SNAP changes at the onset of the pandemic. What can you tell us about that?   Sure. As a result of the expansions that were made available at the onset of the pandemic, students eligible for SNAP benefits could receive up to an additional $95 a month. This is a decent amount that can help put a dent in someone's monthly food bill on a regular basis. The second important change that was made as a result of the expansion is that students who were eligible for SNAP, because they were eligible for the federal work study program did not necessarily have to participate in the work study program in order to get the SNAP benefit. Again, this is important because before the pandemic, students who participated in work study if they were attending school more than halftime they had to work at least 20 hours a week. We know through various studies that typically students are investing three hours in study time for every credit hour that they are signed up for in a given semester. Many students are enrolled for 12 credit hours. That means that they are studying approximately 36 hours on top of their 12 hours of classes. And so we see how they're already investing a significant amount of time and then required to work an additional 20 hours. And so when we're looking at students who are spending some 50, 60 hours and in my case personally, because I had to register for 15 credit hours, up to 80 hours a week. It creates a highly stressed environment for students to work in. At the same time, they're expected to compete, they're expected to make good grades, they're expected to be on par with their peers who may have other support systems in place. The pandemic benefit expansion allowed students to participate regardless of whether they tacked on an additional 20 hours to their already 40 to 60 hour work week was an essential benefit. This is one that we at Bread would like to see continue.   You mentioned some of the hurdles for college students who could potentially utilize SNAP benefits, the work study requirement is one. Are there others the college students have to face?   The work study is one of the essential requirements that they have to face. There are some exceptions. For example, if a student has a differing ability or another term might be a disability. There are some exceptions, but they're so specialized that we want to make sure that students who may be on their own, may be low income themselves, not receiving any support from their families are able to still access the benefit without having to partake in this requirement.   - What's known at the moment about food insecurity among college students?   There are studies that were actually taken right before the pandemic. One in particular done by Temple University showed that nearly 167,000 surveyed, 40% of these individuals experienced food insecurity. And we also know that of these fewer than one in five were accessing SNAP. Again, it speaks to the lack of awareness and how severely underutilized the program is.   You've painted a really striking picture of the number of people affected and how seriously it can affect their lives. You mentioned several really important things. One is just the stress of not knowing whether you'll have enough food or having to have so many requirements imposed on you, work requirements, study requirements, getting food requirements can really add an awful lot of extra pressure to what's a pretty pressured time of life anyway for people. And then adding to that, what you mentioned at the outset that an under-nourished person can't learn and function as well as somebody who's well-nourished is really is very serious issue. What do you think might be done?   The hope is that some of the expansion that was put in place, specifically in correlation to the pandemic, that this would continue, that students would still have the opportunity, those who are eligible, to receive up to $95 a month. When we think about inflation and when we think about how high food prices are, we know how necessary this is. While the benefit may suddenly expire in a couple of months, inflation will not necessarily disappear. Food insecurity that was already high before the pandemic will still continue to persist. We know that some 40% of individuals who attend college come from low income families. So the need is still there. What we would like to see is that the availability of this amount of up to $95 a month would continue. We would also like to see the hourly work requirement be dropped. Those who are eligible for federal work study should not be mandated to work an additional 20 hours a week when they're already investing 40 to 60 hours a week in a given week in their studies. And so we want to ensure that they can invest their time, their energy in their studies, in their schoolwork, what they are there to do, and that they have the energy, that they have access nutrition to be able to perform well.   Those things sure make sense. Let me ask you one final question. You mentioned that only a fraction of the students who are eligible for SNAP are actually enrolled in the program. Are there efforts underway that you're aware of to just get that number higher so that students are made aware they're eligible and they have some coaching or assistance on how to sign up?   To my knowledge, there are no efforts and there's no requirement in the law to make students aware. So this is one of the changes that we are advocating for, that schools would be required by the law to ensure that all students are made aware of the program, what the eligibility requirements or criteria may be so they can access it because it is available to them.   That sounds like something where the colleges themselves could be a big help. They provide lots of guidance to students on all kinds of things. And boy, this could be one thing where colleges could really take the lead in letting the students know about these benefits and providing some help to get people signed up. I'm not aware of any places doing that, although they might very well exist. But if they are out there, it would be good to create a model that could be replicated in other places.   Exactly. As I understand, there are a number of student groups now that may help to make students aware of food donation programs, of food banks. I was informed recently that some schools allow students to donate some of their meals that they already purchased through the school program to their peers. While these programs are helpful it means that students, their food security is contingent on the generosity of their peers, that their access to nutrition is contingent on food that is made available through the food bank system. We know in recent years because of the pandemic, also because of inflation that it has been difficult for food banks to keep stocked up and to also have the number of volunteers that are necessary to distribute. Again, we support these programs, they are important, but alone they do not have the ability to really put dent in hunger like a federally supported program does. We know that the SNAP program is the most effective anti-hunger program in America. It is our moral responsibility to ensure that our young people as they are eligible, have access to this program as well. It's important to know that students who are food insecure are 43% less likely to graduate than their food secure peers and 61% less likely to get an advanced degree. When we think about helping to ensure students ability to succeed personally, but also their ability to contribute to our society and economy, it makes strategic and moral sense to ensure that they are food secure.   Bio   Heather Taylor oversees Bread's public policy and program divisions and operations as Managing Director. She is passionate about developing communications and advocacy strategies to organize and inspire faith communities, policymakers, and partners to engage in our mission to end hunger. Heather spent her career as a dedicated advocate lifting the voices of people who experience racial, gender, and economic injustice. She previously led organizations to increase access to legal and social services, as well as protect the rights and dignity of historically marginalized populations. She advocates to secure the economic rights of women in Sub-Saharan Africa as a fellow at International Justice Mission, a Christian nonprofit seeking to protect people in poverty from violence by transforming justice systems; and twice served on U.S. delegations headed by the UN Commission on the Status of Women to promote women's political participation in emerging democratic societies. Heather holds a J.D. from the University of Iowa, a Master of Divinity from Wesley Theological Seminary and a B.S. from the Georgetown University School of Foreign Service.  

Are you a Unicorn? Have you been called a unicorn? Unicorn is a popular term used when there is an “only” or a “few” and it often means – according to Wikipedia – “a very rare find”.In celebration of Women's History Month, I'm turning over my hosting duties, all month long, to a dear friend and a past guest of the show, Jennefer Witter. Jennefer is the CEO and founder of The Boreland Group, a 20-year-old boutique public relations firm headquartered in New York City. Jennefer's agency specializes in women-led and minority owned businesses as well as grassroots non-profits. Today, I'm sharing a conversation between Jennefer and the Rev Dr. Theresa Thames, talking about unicorns as well as occupying spaces, being our true selves, and how they all wrap into each other.This is the first of this special 4-part Women's History Month feature, hosted by Jennefer Witter. More about Rev Dr. Theresa Thames:Rev Dr Theresa Thames is the founder of Soul Joy Coaching & Yoga, LLC, an in-person and online gathering that centers womxn of color, inviting them to honor their whole divine selves and tap into radical joy. She is also a Dean at an Ivy League university.Dr. Thames is a graduate of Howard University and received a Master of Divinity with a concentration in Gender, Theology, and Ministry from Duke University Divinity School. She has a Doctorate of Ministry from Wesley Theological Seminary in Leadership Excellence which explored how best to equip young clergywomen of color to thrive in ministry. As an ordained Elder in the United Methodist Church, she served as a local pastor in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area for nine years.More about Jennefer Witter:Jennefer Witter is the CEO and founder of The Boreland Group Inc. (TBG – www.theborelandgroup.com), a 19-year-old boutique public relations firm headquartered in New York City. The agency specializes in women-led and minority owned businesses as well as grassroots non-profits. Jennefer is an active public speaker, with presentations to military, trade and academic organizations on implicit bias; gender-based workplace conversation; inclusive leadership; personal branding; and networking. Jennefer is the author of “The Little Book of Big PR: 100+ Quick Tips to Get Your Small Business Noticed,” published by Amacom/HarperCollins.Connect and follow:https://theresathames.comhttp://www.theborelandgroup.com/ Leave us a rating and reviewPlease leave Trailblazers.FM: I Am Black Success, a 5-star rating and review if you'd not yet done so, on Apple Podcasts and/or Spotify. Partner with usWe're also exploring new partners and sponsors. If you're interested in possibly working with us, please shoot me an email to stephen@stephenahart.comLearn more about our show:https://iamblacksuccess.com 

Brian is a 2018 graduate of Wesley Theological Seminary where he received a Master of Divinity. Following Seminary, he served as a licensed local pastor in the Virginia Annual Conference. He served churches in Albemarle County, Virginia for 14 months until coming out as gay and being forced to surrender his clergy credentials. Presently he and his husband reside in Ladysmith Virginia. Both are teachers in Spotsylvania County. Brian teaches Business Education at his alma mater, Courtland High School Brian Lamb has had an up-and-down journey of self-care, and the more he has learned about himself, the better he has been able to focus on his own care and has enhanced his relationship with others. Join this conversation to hear about Brian's journey, where he is today, and the lessons he has learned along the way.Find Brian on Social Media:@wvublamb on Instagram@wvublamb on Twitter Don't forget to join our Active Faith Community on Facebook to share your journey and encourage and support others in their active journeys as well.Active Faith Facebook CommunitySupport me and this podcast on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/runninrevConnect with Andrew: https://linktr.ee/runninrevBackground Music from Yevhen Lokhmatov, 'Race For Glory' www.melodyloops.com/tracks/race-for-glory/ Granted permission to use this Music by Melody Loops and its licensees, including Andrew Ware.

In this episode of the Climate Changed podcast, you will experience: Aram Mitchell leads a guided reflection called Flood on the Horizon A conversation with Rev. Dr. Veronice Miles Next Steps for Engaged Hope About Veronice Miles The Rev. Dr. Veronice Miles is a preacher, teacher, scholar, mentor, and artist committed to a life of ministry in the church and in the academy. She serves as the Mary Elizabeth McGehee Joyce Professor of Preaching at the Wesley Theological Seminary, Washington, DC. Answering the call to ordained ministry in 1994, she was licensed by the First Missionary Baptist Church, making her the first woman to be licensed without contestation in a Missionary Baptist Church, in Gainesville, Florida. She was ordained in 1999 at the Greater Bethany Baptist Church in Atlanta, Georgia. Dr. Miles has taught preaching for more than 16 years and has preached extensively. She has also contributed to various academic and church related journals, commentaries, and books. Her publication, Embodied Hope: A Homiletical Theology Reflection (CASCADE Books), explores the human capacity to live with Hope and the power and potential of preaching to amplify Hope's resonance in our lives. Preaching, she believes, neither ignores nor concedes defeat to the despairing realities of life. Rather, preaching emboldens individuals and communities of faith to live with Hope and respond in the affirmative to God's “yes” for creation and for our lives. With these thoughts as foci, her research highlights the formative and transformative potential of preaching, including the role of preaching in redressing persistently threatening challenges that pervade U.S. culture. As a lifelong learner, Dr. Miles has earned several degrees, including the Doctor of Philosophy in Religious Education and Homiletics from Emory University's Graduate Division of Religion in Atlanta, GA, and a Master of Divinity from the Candler School of Theology at Emory University with certificates in Religious Education and Black Church Studies. She also earned the Bachelor of Arts in Psychology, Master of Education in Counseling, and Education Specialist in Student Personnel Services, all from the University of Florida. Grounded in the belief that God still anoints women and men “to bring good news to the poor... to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free and to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor” (Luke 4:18-19), Dr. Miles endeavors to embody these practices in her life and ministry. Click here for full transcript of this episode Some Highlights from the Conversation “The people in my congregation are only the people in my community, but the world is our neighbor. And if we were to preserve, personify the earth and the environment, I feel like we almost have to, then the earth, these hands, and neighbor as well, is in the same care, compassion, concern that we have for one another.” — Veronice Miles “It is an incarnational kind of understanding of hope, that hope is within us. It's not something that we go and get from a place out there somewhere. It's not even something that is motivated by whether or not things are well in this moment, or terrible in this moment.” — Veronice Miles “So what happens if we get off the consumptive hamster wheel, and we have to start purchasing less things? What fills those spaces when we are no longer able to be addicted to our stuff, and it's actually beautiful things fill that space? It's nature, it's friends, it's community, it's art, it's spaciousness?” — Ben Yosua-Davis Next Steps for Engaged Hope Nicole wants to recommend a book that has helped her understand what is going on. The Story of More by Hope Jahren. Jahren walks through many aspects of climate change and how it's affecting our world. It is very accessible and helped Nicole build her own knowledge base.  Check out the on-line workshop Pursuing our Passions in a Climate Changed World, which is available for free through The BTS Center's Leadership Commons. It was created by this podcast's producer, Peterson Toscano. You will begin a process of discovering how to imagine a better world and use what they love to get there. This can be done on your own, but it is especially designed for groups. You will find a full facilitator's guide, video, and more.  Rob Hopkins' book From What is to What If: Unleashing the Power of Imagination to Create the Future We Want. He outlines ways in which humans are inherently imaginative beings, and he points out how important it is to tap into the imaginative capacity today.  Come to the on-line Convocation 2022: Imagination and Collective Liberation for a Climate-Changed World October 6 - 7, 2022. You will hear presentations with Rev. Dr. Veronice Miles, Rob Hopkins, and more. There will also be opportunities to connect with other participants in affinity groups and break-out sessions.   Create 72-hour disaster supply kits for neighbors. According to ready.gov: “After an emergency, you may need to survive on your own for several days. Being prepared means having your own food, water and other supplies to last for several days. A disaster supply kit is a collection of basic items your household may need in the event of an emergency.” They provide a full list of the basics you want to have in your kit. And they suggest, “Once you take a look at the basic items, consider what unique needs your family might have, such as supplies for pets or seniors.” Creating a 72-hour kit for a neighbor is a practical way of showing love and building community. It will also help you to learn more about your neighbors as you talk to them about what they would like in their kit. Learn more at ready.gov/kit.  Climate Changed is a podcast about pursuing faith, life, and love in a climate-changed world. Hosted by Nicole Diroff and Ben Yosua-Davis. Climate Changed features guests who deepen the conversation while also stirring the waters. The Climate Changed podcast is a project of The BTS Center. The show is produced by Peterson Toscano.  

In this introductory episode of the second season of The Podechesis Podcast, the guys are joined by Dr. Ryan Danker, Director of The John Wesley Institute, and talk about the document, “The Faith Once Delivered” that came out of a summit of over 50 Wesleyan scholars.  This document will be the foundation of the Podechesis discussions throughout this season. Listen and Subscribe to Podechesis on: Apple (Leave a 5-Star Review!!!), Spotify, Stitcher, Podbean, Google, YouTube, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, TuneIn, Listen Notes, and Deezer. Questions? Send us an email or leave a voicemail. questions@podechesis.com Voicemail: (404) 635-6679‬ Spirit & Truth The Podechesis Podcast is a proud member of the Spirit & Truth Podcast Network. Spirit & Truth is a movement of Wesleyan-minded Christians seeking to awaken and equip the 21st century church, through the power of the Holy Spirit, to share the Gospel and make disciples of Jesus Christ. We long to see a new movement of Christians who are empowered by the Spirit, rooted in the truth, and mobilized for the mission. For more information and resources visit www.spiritandtruth.life Dr. Ryan Danker Dr. Ryan N. Danker was named the Director of the John Wesley Institute in October 2021. Danker is an author, historian, and Wesley scholar committed to the Wesleyan vision. He has degrees from Northwest Nazarene University, Duke University, and Boston University. His doctoral research, overseen by David Hempton and Karen Westerfield Tucker, ultimately became his first monograph, Wesley and the Anglicans: Political Division in Early Evangelicalism (IVP Academic, 2016). Danker edited Exploring a Wesleyan Political Theology (GBHEM, 2019) and he co-edited The Next Methodism (Seedbed, 2022). Danker is currently finishing a monograph on the context of the Evangelical Revival and the Wesley brothers' ministry in eighteenth-century Britain. He has published articles in the Wesleyan Theological Journal, the Proceedings of the Charles Wesley Society, Methodist Review, and Wesleyan and Methodist Studies. His popular work has appeared in The Living Church, New Directions, and Firebrand Magazine where he is also an assistant editor. Danker has extensive work in ecumenical efforts having served on the United Methodist-Roman Catholic Dialogue and now serving on the Steering Committee of the Wesleyan Holiness Connection. Danker has served on the faculty of Greensboro College and Wesley Theological Seminary. He has taught at Trinity School for Ministry and Virginia Theological Seminary. He lives in Arlington, Virginia.   Important Links The Faith Once Delivered The John Wesley Institute John Wesley Institute Videos Firebrand Magazine The Daily Text Plain Truth Podcast Reclamation Podcast Episode Credits: Episode written, produced, and hosted by Brett Maddocks, Jim Morrow, and Allen cason. Post Production by Stanton Creative, LLC. About Stanton Creative Stanton Creative seeks to serve by providing inspiration & support for fellow creatives through a variety of resources including podcast and video editing. But it's not just WHAT we do that excites us…it's WHY. As followers of Jesus Christ, we strive to honor God in everything that we do. This includes using our creativity to ascribe glory to our Creator. But our mission doesn't stop there! Our goal is to empower other creatives to utilize their gifts, talents, and imaginations to glorify God through their creations. Need help on your next project? Then book your consultation now! Stanton Creative LLC

Lord, Do You Not Care? A guest sermon preached by Stacey Cole Wilson at Foundry UMC July 10th, 2022. “Living The Questions” series.         Text: LUKE 10:38-42 Stacey Cole Wilson is the Executive Minister of Beloved Community for the Baltimore-Washington Conference of The United Methodist Church. She is a wife, mother, ordained minister, igniter of social change, and a champion for human rights. She received a call into ministry as a youth and is a believer that the greatest gift of God is unconditional love. Before joining the Conference Staff, Dr. Wilson served as the Lead Pastor of Good Hope Union UMC in Silver Spring, MD (2012-2016), the Pastor of Mount Winans United Methodist Church in Baltimore (2007- 2012), and as the Associate Pastor of Linthicum Heights United Methodist Church in Linthicum, Maryland (2003-2007). As a writer and minister, she has received national acclaim for her prayers and litanies published in the award-winning Africana Worship Book; and, she has been honored to receive and share the Word of God nationally and internationally for the glory of God and upbuilding of the nations. She has served as Wesley Theological Seminary's Commencement Preacher/Speaker at the National Cathedral in Washington, D.C., Princeton University Chapel's Guest Preacher for their Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Service of Recommitment, and United Theological Seminary's Distinguished Doctoral Alum of the Year. As an ardent believer in education and community service, Dr. Wilson serves on the Board of Governors for Wesley Theological Seminary, is an executive member of the Northeastern Jurisdiction United Methodist Volunteers in Mission (NEJUMVIM), is a member of the International Coaching Federation (ICF) and is a founding member and chaplain of the Female Clergy Support Group of Maryland among many other committees, boards and agencies. Stacey earned her undergraduate degree in Chemistry from Morgan State University and has worked professionally as a Senior Analytical Chemist specializing in Petroleum and Materials Characterization via Mass Spectrometry, X-Ray Fluorescence (XRF), and X-Ray Diffraction (XRD). She has earned a Master of Divinity degree from Wesley Theological Seminary and a Doctor of Ministry degree from the United Theological Seminary with an emphasis on Collaborative Community-Church Partnerships. She is a distinguished Foundations of Church Leadership Duke Divinity Fellow, Lewis Fellow, Lewis Community Leaders Fellow, Transition in Ministry (TiM) Excellence Fellow, and was a participant in The Joseph Engle Preaching Roundtable (3 Yr. Program) at Princeton Theological Seminary in NJ. She is the daughter of Gary and Pearl Cole; wife of International Music Producer and Pastor Wayne Wilson; and, mother of two great joys in her life, Ava, and Christian Wilson. https://foundryumc.org/archive

About the guestMojdeh Rezaeipour is an Iranian-born interdisciplinary artist who works primarily in mixed media, installation, and film. Her recent research and creative projects are excavations of material memory at the intersection of her own story and a collective diasporic story. She is a graduate of University of California Berkeley, where she studied architecture, and of Alt*Div, an alternative divinity school centering healing justice and art as spiritual practice. Her practice is process-led and adaptive at its core, bridging over a decade of Mojdeh's work in the world as an architect, storyteller, and community organizer. In the past few years, her exhibitions and stories have appeared in publications and broadcasts such as The Washington Post, Washingtonian, BmoreArt, DIRT, Image Journal, WPFW, and The Moth Radio Hour. Mojdeh has worked at award-winning architecture firms in San Francisco, New York and Tokyo, and has exhibited nationally and internationally in a wide range of venues from DIY project spaces in Berlin to museums such as The Phillips Collection. She is the recipient of numerous awards and fellowships, including The Studio Visit Fellowship at Takt Berlin (2018), Second Place at The Trawick Prize (2019), Virginia Museum of Fine Arts Fellowship (2020), The Nicholson Project Artist in Residence (2020), VisArts Studio Fellowship (2021), a Wherewithal Research Grant (2021) and 2022 Sondheim Semifinalist. Mojdeh is currently based in Washington, DC, where she is a Studio Fellow with Henry Luce III Center for Art and Religion at Wesley Theological Seminary. (Photo by Senna Ahmad)The Truth In This ArtThe Truth In This Art is a podcast interview series supporting vibrancy and development of Baltimore & beyond's arts and culture.The Station North Arts & Entertainment Interview Series is supported by the Station North Art's District & Central Baltimore Partnership.Mentioned in this episodeMojdeh's websiteTo find more amazing stories from the artist and entrepreneurial scenes in & around Baltimore, check out my episode directory.Stay in TouchNewsletter sign-upSupport my podcastShareable link to episode★ Support this podcast ★

Who Is My Neighbor? A guest sermon preached by Reverend Bryant M. Oskvig at Foundry UMC July 10th, 2022. “Living The Questions” series.         Text: LUKE 10:25-37 The Reverend Bryant M. Oskvig, an ordained elder of the United Methodist Church, has been working on university campuses since 1998. He received his Master of Divinity from Boston University, where he also earned an MBA in Public/ Non-Profit Management. Rev. Oskvig is now completing his doctoral studies focused on the Black Christian mysticism of Howard Thurman and personal moral awakening at Wesley Theological Seminary where he was also a Lewis Fellow in the center of Congregational Leadership. Rev. Oskvig, known as Rev. O on campus, served in a number of United Methodist congregations in New York, Massachusetts, DC, and Maryland prior to full-time campus ministry. He further has been involved in the broader United Methodist Church having served in leadership on administrative councils and committees. Rev. Oskvig was elected by his peers to serve as delegate to the Northeast Jurisdictional Conference, and he has participated in several conversations and gatherings across the United States about LGBTQIA+ belonging, white supremacy, and the future of the United Methodist Church. Having come to American University in 2019, Rev. Oskvig was confirmed as the 11th University Chaplain and designated as a Scholar in Residence for the Department of Philosophy and Religion. Rev. Oskvig is responsible for animating the broadly inclusive Methodist spirit as a founding principle of American University. He does this through engagement in conversations and worship experiences connected to the Christian identity and through raising awareness and sensitivities to the needs of the many different religious and cultural traditions represented at American University. Rev. Oskvig is married to Dr. Devon R. Oskvig who is a Program Director in the Division of Neuroscince at the National Institute on Aging, where she oversees a large federal program of basic science and clinical research studies. They have four children, who swim, hike, and eat ice cream. https://foundryumc.org/archive

"The church can break our hearts more often than it does the gospel work of healing us" says pastor Amy Butler, who in being the first woman to serve at 3 different churches knows what it's like to find heartbreak rather than healing. In this conversation, Pastor Amy shares why she still believes the church can be a powerful force for healing and hope, talks about Invested Faith - one of the ways she is seeking to lead the church forward into more healing and hope,  and explains why she's fascinated with the question, "what does it take to build community that can change the world." Rev. Dr. Amy Butler currently leads National City Christian Church as intentional interim Senior Minister. Before that, Amy served for for five years as the seventh Senior Minister and first woman at the helm of The Riverside Church in the City of New York.  She holds degrees from Baylor University, the International Baptist Theological Seminary, and Wesley Theological Seminary. When she's not busy leading, teaching, preaching or writing, Pastor Amy is an avid reader and loves to write, recently completing her first memoir which will soon be published by Penguin Random House Books. Pastor Amy is mom to three amazing young adults who are each making their way in the world; they are her favorites.   The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.

Welcome to episode sixty-six of New Creation Conversations. I'm excited to be joined in today's conversation by Dr. Mark Teasdale. Mark is the E. Stanley Jones Professor of Evangelism at Garrett Theological Seminary. Mark is an alum of The American University, has both MDiv and DMin degrees from Wesley Theological Seminary, and has a PhD from Southern Methodist University. Mark has written extensively on evangelism. Our conversation is centered on his most recent book Participating in Abundant Life: Holistic Salvation for a Secular Age – published by IVP Academic.In his new book, Mark argues that our world is hungry for salvation, but we don't always know how to talk about it. Christians agree that God cares about people's lives both in this world and into eternity. But the ways we describe salvation often separate these two spaces: the spiritual from the material. Many groups emphasize one at the expense of the other, limiting the picture of what God has to offer. Mark works to bridge the gap by taking up Jesus' language of abundant life. The abundant is something Jesus invites us to participate in―to seek both for ourselves and for others. The abundant life is rich and multidimensional, not splitting spirits and minds from bodies and material needs. By connecting a vision of “holistic salvation” to contemporary concepts of well-being, Mark's book attempts to show how Christians can both better communicate in secular settings as well as partner with all people regardless of their faith to seek the common good.As Mark and I will discuss, evangelism can be an often-overlooked discipline in the Christian academy, and an overlooked practice in the local church. The abundant life in Christ is not meant to be kept to ourselves, it is meant to be extended to others. I really appreciated Mark's book and his holistic perspective, and I think you will glean a great deal from our conversation. So, thanks for leaning into this week's New Creation Conversation. 

In Episode 91 of the Charity Charge Show, Stephen talks to David Street, Strategic Director Next Gen Organizing of Bread for the World, whose mission is to be a collective Christian voice urging our nation's leaders to end hunger at home and abroad. Stephen and David Street talk about the mission of Bread for the World, Street's work with adolescence and social media through his nonprofit P.E.N. (Promote, Enrich and Nurture) DMV, and the process of setting up a new nonprofit. David Street is a native of Washington, D.C. and has over 13 years of grassroots organizing and engagement experience. He also serves as the Strategic Director of Next Gen Leadership for Bread for the World. Outside of his work in the organizing space, Street also serves as the Executive Director for P.E.N. (Promote, Enrich and Nurture) DMV, a non-profit that specializes in mentoring and social media training with high school students and aspiring leaders living in Washington, D.C. Street received his Bachelors in Political Science from North Carolina A & T State University and holds a Masters in Theology from Wesley Theological Seminary. David Street on starting a nonprofit: It took me about a year to get my nonprofit off the ground; because I interviewed people who had already set up nonprofits, who were already in a similar space, and I just asked a whole bunch of questions. I did about 8-10 interviews with people who had small to medium sized nonprofits. I've been working in nonprofits all my life so I was able to tap into the vast set of knowledge that my colleagues have. I also did other types of research, along with bringing people together and asking questions. After this year of research, we then filed the paperwork and all the other legal aspects. Since we took the time beforehand we already knew what our mission was going to be and who from that advisory board during the planning process would transfer into the board of directors. In that time we also had acquired seed funding, so it wasn't just like we only existed on paper, we had actually acquired some funding from a couple of local churches. I would advise others to do their homework, reach out to people and don't just jump in there; figure out if you have a niche and if there isn't a niche, create one.

The latest research about youth ministry and its actual effect on the lives and faith of young people can seem disheartening, and the data tells us that something has to change. Kenda Creasy Dean, the Mary D. Synnott Professor of Youth, Church, and Culture at Princeton Theological Seminary and an ordained United Methodist pastor in the Greater New Jersey Annual Conference, has a few ideas on what we can learn and what we should remember about our Christian roots: that the Church itself started as a social innovation movement. In addition to teaching in practical theology, education, and formation (specifically youth and young adult ministry, Christian social innovation, and theories of teaching), Dean works closely with Princeton's Institute for Youth Ministry and the Farminary. Dean is the author of numerous books on youth, church, and culture, the best known of which include Almost Christian: What the Faith of Our Teenagers Is Telling the American Church (Oxford, 2010), Practicing Passion: Youth and the Quest for a Passionate Church (Eerdmans, 2004), and The Godbearing Life: The Art of Soul Tending for Youth Ministry with Ron Foster (Upper Room, 1998).She has directed numerous grants on youth, innovation, and the church, including The Zoe Project (2017-2021), and was co-director with Harold Masback of The Joy and Adolescent Faith and Flourishing Project through Yale's Center for Faith and Culture. In 2013, she co-founded Ministry Incubators, Inc., an educational and consulting group that supports Christian social innovation and entrepreneurial ministries. A graduate of Wesley Theological Seminary, she served as a pastor in Virginia, Maryland, and New Jersey and as a campus minister in suburban Washington, D.C. before receiving her PhD from Princeton Seminary in 1997.Resources: Princeton Seminaryhttps://www.ptsem.edu/people/kenda-creasy-deanMinistry Incubatorshttps://ministryincubators.com/about/who-are-we/kenda-dean/instagram.com/mincubatorsZoe Projecthttps://zoeproject.ptsem.edu/Fuller StudioRe-imagining Church as a Missional Incubatorhttps://fullerstudio.fuller.edu/re-imagining-church-as-a-missional-incubator-kenda-creasy-dean/

This week, I sit down and talk to Rev. Jaz. We talk about her call into ministry at a young age and how she has navigated operating in that call and moving into pastoring. You can follow Rev. Jaz on Twitter at @revjaz Follow SWNF on IG: @shewillnotfallcollective Learn more about Rev. Jaz: Rev. Jazmine Brooks, more affectionately known as Rev. Jaz, is the proud pastor of Macedonia AME Church in Accomac, Virginia. She serves as the Program Director for the Office of Inclusive Excellence at Mary Baldwin University and co-facilitates the African-American Religious History course with an emphasis on the lineage of resistance. Her work includes cross-cultural programming, leadership and professional development, civic, social, and community engagement, academic support, and advocacy. In 2016, Rev. Jaz received her Bachelor of Arts degree in Criminal Justice and Philosophy & Religion and is a 2021 graduate of Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC with a Master of Divinity. Rev. Jaz has served in several capacities to include but not limited to youth and young adult programming, congregational and community asset mapping, congregational and generational culture research, and leading Black Liberation and Womanist studies. She has served the Washington, DC Poor People's Campaign as a social media coordinator, organizer, and tri-chair member. In addition to her formal duties, Jazmine has consistently invested in liberative education through her leadership in the Sacred Circle Womanist Conference and the Literacy to Liberation Initiative. She facilitated the formation of a local committee on equity, achievement, and opportunity in Staunton, Va and serves the community in voting and census registration initiatives. She also serves as the 2nd Vice President of the Staunton Branch NAACP. Earlier this year, Rev. Jaz joined the leadership of the Staunton Equity Coalition, a citizens organization committed to proposing policy that addresses inequities in education, policing, employment, and housing. Rev. Jaz is a contributing writer for the AME Church Christian Recorder and was recently featured in a national USA Today series on citizens who inspire change in their local community. She is committed to the work of creating spaces for the innovative engagement of formal and informal education, multicultural programming, and liberative theology as an investment in the life of our beloved community. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/shewillnotfall/support

Guest preacher Rev. Tonetta Landis-Aina looks at the intersections of identity and power in the story of Hagar and Sarai. She challenges us to examine our own identities and privileges in order to live into the vision of being a “multi” church. [Genesis 16:1-14] Rev. Tonetta Landis-Aina is a native of North Carolina and moved to Washington DC in 2004. She holds a Masters of Divinity from Wesley Theological Seminary and is passionate about marginalized people finding their stories in scripture as well as about the new shapes the church will take in the 21st century. When Tonetta isn’t geeking out on the Bible or trying to piece together what God might be doing in the beautiful city that is DC, she is enjoying time with her wife and 4-year-old son.

What is sanctification?  What is Christian perfection?  Is entire sanctification in this life possible?  How does the promise of salvation continue beyond the “altar experience?”   In this episode of The Podechesis Podcast, the guys are joined by Dr. Scott Kisker, professor of church history at United Theological Seminary in Dayton, OH to discuss Question 35 of John Wesley's Revision of the Westminster Shorter Catechism: Q35-What is sanctification?  Dr. Kisker adds his voice to and important discussion about holiness, the Christian life, and recovering the “great depositum” of Methodism–Sanctification.   Along the way, Jim dreams of Olympic glory, Brett disappears unexpectedly, and Allen states that all he really wants is a cookie.   Listen and Subscribe to Podechesis on: Apple (Leave a 5-Star Review!!!), Spotify, Stitcher, Podbean, Google, YouTube, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, TuneIn, Listen Notes, and Deezer.   Bio For Rev. Dr. Scott Kisker Scott Kisker is an elder in the Iowa Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church, having served as Senior Pastor of Colesburg United Methodist Church in Colesburg, IA. Prior to coming to United Theological Seminary as professor of Church History and Associate Dean for Masters Programs, he was Professor of History of Christianity at Wesley Theological Seminary and Director of the Course of Study Program for the Northeast Jurisdiction of the United Methodist Church. Dr. Kisker also served as Director of the Charles Wesley Heritage Centre in Bristol, UK and as Associate Pastor for the American Protestant Church in Bonn, Germany.  His education includes a B.A. from Swarthmore College, an M.Div. from Duke Divinity School, and a Ph.D. from Drew University.    Scott's publications include The Band Meeting: Rediscovering Relational Discipleship in Transformational Community, co-authored with Kevin M. Watson ( Franklin, TN: Seedbed, 2017), Longing for Spring: A New Vision for Wesleyan Community, co-authored with Elaine Heath (Eugene, OR: Cascade, 2010), Mainline or Methodist? Recovering Our Evangelistic Mission (Nashville: Discipleship Resources, 2008), and Foundation for Revival: Anthony Horneck, the Religious Societies, and the Rise of an Anglican Pietism (Lanham, MD: Scarecrow Press, 2007). Dr. Kisker is also one of the host of the podcast, Plain Truth: A Holy-Spirited Podcast and he also is currently pastoring McKendree UMC in Troy, OH. His academic interests include Pietist and Wesleyan Methodist history and theology, Wesleyan discipleship and small group formation, and evangelism.  Scott is married to Roberta Willison Kisker. They have five children: Maria, Susanna, Isaac, Tabitha, and Naomi.   Dr. Kisker can be reached at stkisker@united.edu.   Questions? Send us an email or leave a voicemail. questions@podechesis.com Voicemail: (404) 635-6679‬   Important Links For This Episode   Scripture Proofs:    Scripture Proofs for Question 35 2 Thessalonians 2:13; Ephesians 4:23-24; Romans 6:4, 6   Wesley's Revision of the Shorter Catechism (From Seedbed.com)   Wikipedia article of Westminster Shorter Catechism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_Shorter_Catechism   Wesley For Armchair Theologians by William Abraham   Absolute Basics of the Wesleyan Way by Phil Tallon and Justus Hunter   Sermon: Scripture Way of Salvation by John Wesley   Perfect Love by Kevin Watson   Daily Text by Seedbed.com   Firebrand Magazine   Plain Truth: A Holy-Spirited Podcast  

Roger Butts is a hospital chaplain in a 500-bed hospital in Colorado Springs. An ordained Unitarian Universalist minister for nearly 20 years, he is a member of the International Thomas Merton Society and the Unitarian Universalist Christian Fellowship. His wife, Rev. Marta Fioriti, is minister of Black Forest Community Church. He attended Appalachian State and Wesley Theological Seminary (DC). Seeds of Devotion: Weekly Contemplations on Faith is Roger's first book.Amazon link