Podcasts about Carbondale

Branch Cafe and Market: Legacy, Values-Driven Food, and Community in Downtown CarbondaleHosts Jennifer Olson and Russell Williams interview Elaine Ramseyer and Nina Donovan about The Branch Cafe and Market (formerly Long Branch), a legacy downtown Carbondale business and regional draw that expanded by merging with Town Square Market. Elaine recounts buying the cafe in 1998, growing from coffee and cookies into a full kitchen, adding a separate bakery/catering kitchen after purchasing the former Tokyo Restaurant, and evolving from a long-time vegetarian menu to include items like grass-fed beef burgers, wild-caught Alaskan salmon patties, and organic chicken, while staying focused on fresh, handmade food and quality ingredients. Nina describes the market's specialty grocery offerings, prepared foods, local artisan gifts, supplements, and a homeopathic pharmacy, plus its role as a welcoming “third space” hosting meetings, art, memorials, showers, and community events. They discuss post-COVID staffing challenges, changing customer habits, marketing via social media and email, and their service- and relationship-driven mission, including support for international orphanages and local trade scholarships.00:00 Podcast Welcome00:50 Meet The Guests02:05 Branch Origin Story02:46 Growing Into A Kitchen04:26 Bakery Expansion Move05:19 Menu Evolution Values07:14 Market Merge Explained08:52 Entrepreneur Backgrounds12:40 Elaine New York Tales13:27 Nina Community Roots16:29 Third Space Events20:14 Hosting And Staffing20:48 Hours And Rentals21:28 Post Covid Staffing Shift23:29 Slow Food Versus Fast25:54 Marketing And Specials28:30 Artisan Gifts And Pantry29:09 Dietary Needs Focus30:21 Health Shop And Supplements31:02 Finding The Location32:36 Values Over Profit36:25 Community And Giving Back39:36 Connections And Networking42:16 How To Find Branch43:31 Sponsor Thanks And Wrap

This episode of The Other Side of the Bell, featuring trumpet composer, performer and producer Gabriel Johnson, is brought to you by Bob Reeves Brass. This episode also appears as a video episode on our YouTube channel, you can find it here: "Gabriel Johnson Trumpet Interview" And, find the expanded show notes, transcript and more photos here --- Gabriel Johnson went to the Monterey Jazz Festival at 9 years old - by himself - and witnessed Dizzy Gillespie and Freddie Hubbard on stage. He went home, switched instruments to the trumpet, and the rest is history. Gabe learned to play the trumpet by ear, playing along to Miles Davis, learning "the excitement inside the sadness." A glimmer of hope for Gabe during a difficult childhood. Self taught until later in high school, it wasn't until he was at the New England Conservatory when he learned that what seemed second-nature all along was in fact perfect pitch. A chance encounter with Chris Botti on Gabe's last night in Boston before moving to Los Angeles led to a friendship of over 20 years, and pivotal connections including meeting the manager of Blood, Sweat & Tears, who invited him to be the band's musical director for a year. From hanging out with Clint Eastwood and Robert Redford, to learning recording techniques and producer psychology from David Foster, Gabe has built a remarkable career full of originality and spontaneity, covering soundtracks, jazz, pop and more. With AI creeping into musicians' livelihood, Gabriel has some pertinent advice: individual artist expression is something that can never be replicated, whether by artificial intelligence or another human. Be yourself, be creative, be original. The rest will follow. About Gabriel Johnson:  Gabriel Johnson is an American jazz trumpeter whose lyrical sound and deep musical fluency have earned praise from artists, including David Foster, Clint Eastwood, and Chris Botti.  Gabe studied at New England Conservatory and then moved to Los Angeles and built a wide ranging career as a solo artist, session musician and featured performer. Recording and performing with artists such as Gladys Knight, Steven Tyler, David Foster, Chris Botti , Andrea Bocelli, Lyle Lovett, and Burt Bacharach, he was featured by Clint Eastwood as a trumpet soloist on the film scores for Changeling and Invictus, and has released a substantial catalog of recordings on his Sunset Horn label, blending jazz tradition with cinematic electronic and modern production influences. Episode Links: Website: www.gabrieljohnsonmusic.com Bandcamp: https://gabrieljohnson.bandcamp.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/GJTrumpet Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/gabriel-johnson/336452318 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gjtrumpet/?hl=en Bob Reeves Brass Events and Appearances: William Adam Trumpet Festival July 9-12, Southern Illinois University, Carbondale, Ill. Book your trumpet alignment here: https://trumpetmouthpiece.com/products/william-adam-trumpet-festival-valve-alignment-presale Podcast Credits: "A Room with a View" - composed and performed by Howie Shear Podcast Host - John Snell Photo Credits - Courtesty Brian Shaw and Equinox Publishing Audio Engineer - Ted Cragg

As part of Pride Month, Jonny and Heather conduct interviews with local LGBTQ+ advocates. In the front half of the shaow, Jonny interviews Father Jerry Anderson, author of Ordained by Angels; A Memoir of an AIDS Chaplain. Father Anderson, a native of Southern Illinoi and co-founder of The Episcopal Caring Response to AIDS (ECRA), will be giving a reading from his book at 11:30am this Sunday (June 14th) at the St. Andrews Episcopal Church on Mill Street in Carbondale. He will also be givig the sermon there (referencing Matthew Shepard) at 10am. In the back half of the show, Heather interviews Lindsay Church, a recent independent candidate for US Representative from Illinois District 4. Lindsay Church is a Navy veteran and co-founder of Minority Veterans of America.

For over a century, Pennsylvania has been a hotspot for UFO encounters that baffle experts and leave witnesses questioning reality. From glowing discs in remote lakes to crafts that defy physics, the Keystone State's skies are filled with the mysterious, paranormal, and extraterrestrial.EPISODE BLOG PAGE (includes sources):  https://weirddarkness.com/PennsylvaniaUFOsREAD or DOWNLOAD the full transcript of this episode: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/ye247nxkFEATURED STORIES IN THIS EPISODE: Pennsylvania has always been a land of mysteries in the skies. It has become one of the most intriguing destinations for UFO sightings throughout the years, with tales that date back long before the term “flying saucer” was even coined. From glowing discs hovering over fields, to objects that break the laws of physics, the state's history is filled with encounters that leave you wondering what might actually be out there. And these are not mere passing glimpses; these are encounters that can leave a witness profoundly shaken – altered for life. There's the Carbondale incident, where strange lights in a lake sent people into a panic. There's the experienced aviator who encountered something that decades in the cockpit could not explain. There are numerous accounts of silent craft and disc-shaped objects, eerie lights in the sky — occasions when the stars were blotted out. There are reports of the stopping of time, an encounter that had state troopers speechless, and even an extraterrestrial werewolf-like entity. From the earliest sightings in 1917 through more modern accounts, Pennsylvania's connection to the UFO phenomenon is undeniable, if not unbelievable. What's going on in the skies over the Keystone State? And why is it happening there in particular?CHAPTERS & TIME STAMPS (All Times Approximate)…00:00:00.000 = The Foreboding00:01:37.162 = Show Open00:02:45.008 = Chapter 01: Lanterns and Lies: The Carbondale UFO Mystery00:11:48.101 = Chapter 02: Eerie Lights in Erie ***00:15:12.728 = Chapter 03: The Oil City Light Show00:16:46.996 = Chapter 04: Saylor's Lake, Silent Lights, and a Stunned State Trooper00:18:09.833 = Chapter 05: A Tent, A Grandmother, And A Silent Visitor Overhead00:20:02.281 = Chapter 06: The Wainwright's Werewolf00:25:33.631 = Chapter 07: The Black Circle In The Sky ***00:27:55.349 = Chapter 08: Friday Night Lights In The Sky00:30:36.853 = Chapter 09: Playing Chicken With An Experienced Pilot00:32:40.481 = Chapter 10: Mind Probing and Time Stopping00:35:41.135 = Chapter 11: The First Saucers00:41:31.466 = Chapter 12: Why Pennsylvania? ***00:44:16.924 = Show Close & Bloopers*** = Begins immediately after inserted ad breakLISTEN ON PODCAST APPS: Look for this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Amazon Music, Pandora, TuneIn Radio, and other podcast apps. Get a list of free listening apps here: https://weirddarkness.com/wdapps*No AI Voices Are Used In The Narration Of This Podcast*SOURCES and RESOURCES:UFOs in Pennsylvania: Encounters with Extraterrestrials in the Keystone State, Patty A. Wilson, ISBN 9780811 706483The Carbondale UFO Crash, 11-11-1974, The Reality, the Hoaxes and the Legend, M.J. Graeber https://www.ufocasebook.com/carbondalecrash1974.htmlHovered- Colored lights went out- sped away -left trail, National UFO Reporting Centerhttp://www.nuforc.org/webreports/068/S68976.htmlUFO Over Westline, National UFO Reporting Center http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/032/S32964.htmlUFO Over Erie, National UFO Reporting Center http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/019/S19817.htmlBright lights in the sky seperated by several miles, National UFO Reporting Centerhttp://www.nuforc.org/webreports/043/S43145.htmlWar of the Worlds Sighting, National UFO Reporting Center http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/054/S54491.htmlVery large circular craft with engine problem, descends, stabilizes, restores engines and tests them, National UFO Reporting Center http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/016/S16875.htmlOne larger white object & 2 smaller round white objects, National UFO Reporting Center http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/048/S48591.htmlUFO Sighting Johnstown 1951, National UFO Reporting Center http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/132/S132897.htmlBright Blue Object Sighting, National UFO Reporting Center http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/035/S35223.htmlSix craft observed that brought people out of their homes to look up, National UFO Reporting Center http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/043/S43006.htmlThe Discreetly Intriguing Carbondale Case – A Downed UFO In Pennsylvania, Marcus Lowth, UFO Insighthttps://www.ufoinsight.com/ufos/cover-ups/carbondale-case-downed-ufo-pennsylvania(Over time links may become invalid, disappear, or have different content. I always make sure to give authors credit for the material I use whenever possible. If I somehow overlooked doing so for a story, or if a credit is incorrect, please let me know and I will rectify it in these show notes immediately. Some links included above may benefit me financially through qualifying purchases.)WeirdDarkness® is a registered trademark. Copyright ©2026, Weird Darkness.Originally aired: February 24, 2025Weird Darkness traces more than a century of unexplained encounters in the skies over Pennsylvania, from a glowing disc submerged in a Carbondale lake to a werewolf-faced figure tied to a silent craft, the apparent stopping of time outside New Kensington, and the geography researchers believe may explain why the Keystone State draws so many sightings.It opens with the Carbondale incident of November 1974, when teenagers Bill Lloyd, John Lloyd, and Bob Gillette watched a golden-white light streak from the direction of Salem Mountain and drop near the lake outside Russell Park. A disc-shaped glow moved beneath the water, the surface fizzed and turned a sickly green-yellow, and when Officers Barbero and Jacobina fired their weapons at it, the object appeared to dodge the shots. The boys overheard a police radio order to hold off the news media, watched a scuba diver surface screaming, and saw a crane and delivery truck brought to the water's edge under the eye of Police Chief Francis Dottle — only for divers to later produce a single old railroad worker's lantern and declare the whole thing a hoax. Matt Graeber of the UFO Report and Information Center in Philadelphia arrived at five in the morning to find a crowd of between fifteen hundred and three thousand people ringing the lake.From there the episode moves to February 1975 in Simpson, where a driver on Route 171 joined other motorists pulled over to watch red and green lights hover before a white beam appeared and the object shot off faster than a fighter jet. That June, two friends fishing at Red Bank near the Allegheny Reservoir tracked a craft that stopped dead in midair and hovered for roughly an hour, then heard KDKA radio report at six-thirty that morning that a UFO had crashed into an eastern Pennsylvania lake and the National Guard had it surrounded, before the story disappeared from every outlet. Near Erie around the same stretch, two motorists stopped to study a silent disc about eighty feet across hanging a thousand feet up, ringed with red, yellow, blue, and green lights, and afterward never spoke of it to each other again.Next comes Oil City on November 1, 1974, where CB radio chatter about lights near the Vocational Technical Center across from Oil City High School drew a group of brothers out to look. They found three or four bright lights spread miles apart, moving in geometric formations no aircraft could manage, performing for nearly two hours in front of hundreds of onlookers.The account then shifts to Saylor's Lake in Monroe County on the evening of March 1, 1973, where lights began darting fifteen hundred feet above the water around seven-thirty, shifting between white, red, and blue. State Trooper Jeffrey Hontz, sent to investigate, later told the press the display looked like Christmas trees flying in the air. Witnesses counted roughly forty separate lights, all of them silent at an altitude where planes or helicopters would have roared, and the spectacle lasted until just before eleven.That summer of 1973 in Erie, a teenager sleeping in a backyard tent to escape the heat saw a red, star-like object cross the sky with apparent purpose and ran inside to fetch his grandmother. By the time the two returned, the sky had filled with colored star-like objects moving at impossible angles and near-collisions before they winked out of existence rather than flying away, and the grandmother, though she had watched the whole half-hour, afterward refused to discuss any of it.The most frightening encounter belongs to Bensalem on August 27, 1973, when Alan and Elsie Wainwright saw a boomerang-shaped craft glide silently over their home, halt overhead, and d

In this episode, spiritual director John Bruna guides us deeper into Buddhist wisdom. He helps us deepen our understanding and practices for cultivating the deeper states of wisdom that alleviate suffering in our lives. This episode was recorded on May 6th, 2026.Welcome to the Way of Compassion Dharma Center Podcast. Located in Carbondale, Colorado, the Way of Compassion Dharma center's primary objective is to provide programs of Buddhist studies and practices that are practical, accessible, and meet the needs of the communities we serve.  As a traditional Buddhist center, all of our teachings are offered freely. If you would like to make a donation to support the center, please visit www.wocdc.org.  May you flourish in your practice and may all beings swiftly be free of suffering.

Jonny interviews local drag superstar Leah Fantasy about their life, their experiences growing up nonbinary and Southern Illinois, and their amazing performances in local venues. They discuss the vibe needed for this year's Pride and how to generate it. In the back third of the show, Heather and Jonny discuss the flexibility of labels in the Alphabet Soup and why we need to claim and deploy them gently. 

In this episode, spiritual director John Bruna offers guidance regarding the wisdom aspect of Buddhism. He describes how the sense of self that we have is a dependently originated phenomenon that is actually empty of any inherent existence. Importantly, John helps us understand how we need to engage in cultivating a healthy sense of self first before we can be successful in realizing these deeper truths on the Buddhist path. This episode was recorded on April 29th, 2026.Welcome to the Way of Compassion Dharma Center Podcast. Located in Carbondale, Colorado, the Way of Compassion Dharma center's primary objective is to provide programs of Buddhist studies and practices that are practical, accessible, and meet the needs of the communities we serve.  As a traditional Buddhist center, all of our teachings are offered freely. If you would like to make a donation to support the center, please visit www.wocdc.org.  May you flourish in your practice and may all beings swiftly be free of suffering.

In this episode, spiritual director John Bruna hosts a discussion and offers commentary about how we can engage with the perfection of wisdom in our daily lives. He encourages us to explore how dependent origination and emptiness impact our experience and then gives guidance on ultimate and conventional reality which are known as the two truths. This episode was recorded on April 22nd, 2026.Welcome to the Way of Compassion Dharma Center Podcast. Located in Carbondale, Colorado, the Way of Compassion Dharma center's primary objective is to provide programs of Buddhist studies and practices that are practical, accessible, and meet the needs of the communities we serve.  As a traditional Buddhist center, all of our teachings are offered freely. If you would like to make a donation to support the center, please visit www.wocdc.org.  May you flourish in your practice and may all beings swiftly be free of suffering.

This episode of The Other Side of the Bell, featuring historical, classical and jazz trumpeter Brian Shaw, is brought to you by Bob Reeves Brass. This episode also appears as a video episode on our YouTube channel, you can find it here: "Brian Shaw Trumpet Interview" And, find the expanded show notes, transcript and more photos here --- Whether it's big band jazz, classical baroque, or any number of styles in between, Brian Shaw's trumpet career is a reflection of the word, "versatility." Brian is the type of musician who, when having trouble deciding whether to major in classical or jazz, decided to simply do both! Hence a double major in jazz studies and classical performance, which yes, did result in him having to do two senior recitals. But Brian embraced the challenge, just as he did in finishing his doctorate in one year instead of three, so that he would have more time to pursue all the various avenues he wanted to explore. Today, Brian pursues teaching, writing, performance, arrangement and more from his home base near Seattle, WA. And, as you'll know from our recent "Kenny Wheeler Special," he and Nick Smart recently collaborated on a biography of inspirational trumpeter Kenny Wheeler, Song For Someone: The Musical Life of Kenny Wheeler, which added published author to Brian's resume as well. Brian joins us today to talk about his early inspirations coming from a non-musical family in small town southern Illinois, to being the first in his family to attend college, taking control of your musical education, and the various stops and projects he's pursued along his trailblazing journey. About Brian Shaw: Brian Shaw is an active performer, arranger, and educator known for his versatility. He is one of the few trumpet players in the world equally comfortable in early music, orchestral, jazz, and commercial settings on modern and period instruments, and enjoys an international performing career as a modern and historical trumpet soloist. He holds principal positions with the Dallas Winds, Santa Fe Pro Musica, Spire Baroque Orchestra. He is also a regular guest instructor of Historical Trumpet at the Eastman School of Music. From 2007-2021, he was Professor of Trumpet and Jazz Studies at Louisiana State University and was Principal Trumpet of the Baton Rouge (Louisiana) Symphony from 2014-2021. Brian has also served as guest Principal Trumpet of the Oregon Symphony, Kansas City Symphony, St. Louis Symphony, and Pacific Northwest Ballet Orchestra (US). A noted Baroque trumpet player, Shaw's 2008 recording Virtuoso Concertos for Clarino includes some of the most difficult pieces ever written for the instrument. Early Music America observed: "Shaw's tone is beautiful, and his playing unfailingly musical… His is a voice that will make a major mark on Baroque trumpet playing." His critically-acclaimed 2014 solo trumpet recording redshift was accompanied by the Dallas Wind Symphony and conductor Jerry Junkin. Brian has also released a collaborative album of classic recital pieces with pianist Jan Grimes called Sonatas and Fantasies: A Century of Standards for Trumpet and Piano, and has just completed another recording project called Virtuosic Versatility, outlining the history of the trumpet, from early music to modern jazz.  As a jazz musician, Brian plays solo and lead trumpet professionally in the Seattle area and leads a big band in Baton Rouge every December, which released a holiday-themed album titled Christmas at the Manship! in 2017. He is in demand as an arranger as well, with many scores for jazz band, brass ensemble, studio orchestra, and wind ensemble to his credit. Brian Shaw lives near Seattle with his wife Lana, their sons Thomas and Elliot, and their dog, Ernie. Episode Links: www.brianshawmusic.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/bshawmusic Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/brian-shaw/1564984803 Kenny Wheeler book: https://www.equinoxpub.com/home/song-someone-musical-life-kenny-wheeler/ Bob Reeves Brass Events and Appearances: William Adam Trumpet Festival July 9-12, Southern Illinois University, Carbondale, Ill. Book your trumpet alignment here: https://trumpetmouthpiece.com/products/william-adam-trumpet-festival-valve-alignment-presale Podcast Credits: "A Room with a View" - composed and performed by Howie Shear Podcast Host - John Snell Photo Credits - Courtesty Brian Shaw and Equinox Publishing Audio Engineer - Ted Cragg

On today's newscast: The Aspen-Pitkin County Housing Authority will ease up on its work hour requirements for residents while the airport is closed next year; after a two-year dry spell, Carbondale again has an outdoor pool; and reproductive health advocates in Idaho are working to get an abortion vote on the November ballot. Tune in for these stories and more.

In this episode, spiritual director John Bruna dives deeper into the perfection of wisdom within the Mahayana path of Tibetan Buddhism. He skillfully presents how our misperception of reality is the root of our suffering and then offers a variety of practices as methods for slowly clarifying our view of reality and thus relieving suffering from our experience. This episode was recorded on April 15th, 2026.Welcome to the Way of Compassion Dharma Center Podcast. Located in Carbondale, Colorado, the Way of Compassion Dharma center's primary objective is to provide programs of Buddhist studies and practices that are practical, accessible, and meet the needs of the communities we serve.  As a traditional Buddhist center, all of our teachings are offered freely. If you would like to make a donation to support the center, please visit www.wocdc.org.  May you flourish in your practice and may all beings swiftly be free of suffering.

Jonny and Heather welcome summer on the other side of Memorial Day, remembering what this coming weekend is meant to recognize. The provide some updates on the Southern Illinois Pride plans in Carbondale for Saturday, June 13th. They then celebrate that Carbondale's Pride is not (as of now) being cancelled, as too manyothers are--including China's cancelling of Hong Kong's Pride festivities. Given how excellent China proved itself at dishing out shade to our President this week, we are surprised they don't want a Pride Parade. In the back half of the show, they examine somestories closer to home that are a bit shady in the gray zone between black and white. They conclude with a confused turn to athletcis and art, noting the connections between shades and values.

On today's newscast: The June primary will decide who becomes Garfield County's next sheriff, Aspen officials want to review greenhouse gas emissions in the upper valley, Carbondale is not planning to install license plate tracking cameras, Silt's new $28 million-dollar water plant comes online this month, and more.

The Sopris Sun team speaks with the Carbondale Beautification Club about upcoming gardening projects at the Miners Memorial Garden in Sopris Park and various beds in Gianinetti Park on May 16. Tune in to Everything Under the Sun on KDNK.org every Thursday at 4pm.

This episode of The Other Side of the Bell, featuring trumpet performer, composer and designer Thomas Gansch, is brought to you by Bob Reeves Brass. This episode also appears as a video episode on our YouTube channel, you can find it here: "Thomas Gansch Trumpet Interview" And, find the expanded show notes, transcript and more photos here From his groundbreaking Mnozil Brass to his original take on a rotary valve trumpet, the "Gansch Horn," Thomas Gansch has made an indelible impact on professional music. Thomas joins us today to share his musical journey from a young boy, surrounded by instruments in a musician's family, to becoming a prominent trumpet player in Austria and beyond. He opens up quite honestly about his struggles with classical music education, and family expectations, before eventually making his transition towards jazz, which he embraced as part of his wide-range of musical interests. Growing up as the son of renowned Austrian composer Johann Gansch, and as the much younger brother of Hans Gansch, a prominent trumpet soloist and professor himself (and principal trumpeter of the Vienna Philharmonic), there was a lot of push and pull as both brothers sought their own place of identity, creativity and freedom to pursue their musical dreams. It was through humor and originality that Thomas truly found his wings, particularly with the Mnozil Brass septet, considered the "Monty Python of the musical world." Going strong since 1992, Mnozil forms just part of Thomas' busy schedule that comprises all sorts of musical styles and groups. And he gives us a tour of the original Gansch Horn, a rotary trumpet that can be played with one hand, which gives it its distinctive arced bell shape. Thomas worked directly with the noted Austrian manufacturer Schagerl in the early 2000's to create the horn that has become his identity. From practice routines to juggling gigs, jamming with Wynton Marsalis and Jerry Hey to looking after your body and mind, this is a wonderful conversation of breadth and inspiration! About Thomas Gansch: Thomas Gansch, born in 1975, has always successfully eluded any categorisation. Whether in the formation "Mnozil Brass", which he co-founded and with which he has been performing around the world for thirty years, in the legendary "Vienna Art Orchestra", as a soloist with a large orchestra or as part of a family theatrical ensemble with his wife Theresia and the joint programme "Doppelgansch", whether as a composer, arranger, compere, pop singer, big band leader or brass band conductor, the native of Lower Austria does not allow himself to be confined to any musical genre. He likes to summarise all varieties of his art under the term "music" that "either touches him or doesn't touch him" in order to put all prejudices to one side and to give listeners an intuitive approach to listening. Various projects have taken Gansch to over 45 countries and his first musical experiences in the brass band of his father Johann Gansch S. (1925 - 1998), which he - in the spirit of the gifted improviser - always integrates directly into his work. Today, Gansch draws on his wealth of artistic experience and also brings his engaging personality to every project, from symphony orchestras to chamber music ensembles, from jazz to new music, from pop acts to musical theatre and comedy programmes, into his performances. There are no hierarchies in his understanding of art, and so he manages to inspire and "pick up" the audience again and again. Episode Links: Mnozil Brass: https://mnozilbrass.at/en YouTube: @ThomasGanschOFFICIAL Instagram: @thomasgansch  Facebook: @thomasganschofficial  Bob Reeves Brass Events and Appearances: Next Up! Concert Series: Watch the live streamed premier of Dan Rosenboom's special composition, "In a World Like This," with the Los Angeles Brass Alliance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xfR6Gwtyw4 And stay tuned for the fully HD version coming soon! William Adam Trumpet Festival July 9-12, Southern Illinois University, Carbondale, Ill. Podcast Credits: "A Room with a View" - composed and performed by Howie Shear Podcast Host - John Snell Photo Credits - ©Daniela Matejschek Audio Engineer - Ted Cragg

Jonny and Heather face the summer with news of Southern Illinois Pride plans. This information has recently been circulated on local social media. In the process, of course, lots of anti-Pride community members have had...."interesting" things to say about Pride. Jonny and Heather remind them that their comments are public and turn to rebutting the common propaganda talking points critical of Pride and the LGBTQ+ community. In the back half of the show they run with the theme of why (this year especially) Pride is so necessary because of the ludicrous, systemic discriminations against queer and trans people. 

In this episode, spiritual director John Bruna continues last week's discussion on the Perfection of Wisdom in the text “How to Meditate on the Stages of the Path”. He introduces and gives guidance on three different types of wisdom that are presented in the text, while also more broadly discussing various wisdoms that we will encounter on the Path to Awakening. This episode was recorded on April 8th, 2026.Welcome to the Way of Compassion Dharma Center Podcast. Located in Carbondale, Colorado, the Way of Compassion Dharma center's primary objective is to provide programs of Buddhist studies and practices that are practical, accessible, and meet the needs of the communities we serve.  As a traditional Buddhist center, all of our teachings are offered freely. If you would like to make a donation to support the center, please visit www.wocdc.org.  May you flourish in your practice and may all beings swiftly be free of suffering.

In this episode, spiritual director John Bruna begins his commentary on the topic of the perfection of wisdom. He gives us some practical steps to take that can help us to experience the positive shifts that wisdom can have in our lives while keeping in touch with the depth of wisdom that will eventually free us from all suffering. This episode was recorded on April 1st, 2026.Welcome to the Way of Compassion Dharma Center Podcast. Located in Carbondale, Colorado, the Way of Compassion Dharma center's primary objective is to provide programs of Buddhist studies and practices that are practical, accessible, and meet the needs of the communities we serve.  As a traditional Buddhist center, all of our teachings are offered freely. If you would like to make a donation to support the center, please visit www.wocdc.org.  May you flourish in your practice and may all beings swiftly be free of suffering.

This special episode of The Other Side of the Bell, featuring the trumpet section of the Star Wars Orchestra: Jon Lewis, Barry Perkins, David Washburn, Daniel Rosenboom, Jim Grinta and Rob Schaer, is brought to you by Bob Reeves Brass. This episode also appears as a video episode on our YouTube channel, you can find it here: "Star Wars Special" And, find the expanded show notes, transcript and more photos here --- It's Star Wars Day, and wouldn't you know it, we have a a great way to celebrate: our live stream conversation with the members of the Star Wars Orchestra trumpet section! Joining us are  Jon Lewis, Barry Perkins, David Washburn, Daniel Rosenboom, Jim Grinta and Rob Schaer, who recorded the soundtrack for Episodes 7, 8 and 9 of the Star Wars universe. The only one missing in fact was Wayne Bergeron, who has made other appearances on The Other Side of the Bell, but that comes back to the backstory of getting this live stream together: The date was May 4th, 2020. We were in the depths of Covid lockdown. John Snell thought to himself that morning, "Maybe I'll see if my friend Jon Lewis is around and we can chat trumpet and Star Wars, and put out a little live stream." He got a hold of Jon, who basically said, "Hold my beer (or coffee) - " and an hour later had gathered six of the seven members of the section for a wholly spontaneous, gregarious conversation on recording techniques for orchestras, practice and warm up tips, playing for John Williams, and life during lockdown. So as much as this episode is a celebration of a remarkable series of films, and their iconic music, it's also a blast from the past of what life was like just a few years ago, and a chance to reflect on how things have changed since. Bob Reeves Brass Upcoming Events and Appearances: Next Up! Concert Series: Los Angeles Brass Alliance, with special composition by Dan Rosenboom Pasadena Presbyterian Church, May 9, 7:00 pm PDT https://www.labrassalliance.org/events/next-up-2026 Streaming link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xfR6Gwtyw4 William Adam Trumpet Festival July 9-12, Southern Illinois University, Carbondale, Ill. Podcast Credits: "A Room with a View" - composed and performed by Howie Shear Podcast Host - John Snell Audio Engineer - Ted Cragg

On today's newscast: Carbondale's Board of Trustees has decided to stay in a regional law enforcement task force — for now; Gov. Jared Polis signed a bill into law this week that supporters say will put an end to puppy mills in Colorado; and Colorado is one step closer to getting passenger rail on the Front Range. Tune in for these stories and more.

In this episode, spiritual director John Bruna offers a clarifying talk about the practice of shamatha meditation, also known as calm abiding. He gives useful guidance on how to encourage this meditation practice in our lives, describes its many benefits, and uncovers some obstacles we will face when seeking to cultivate shamatha. This episode was recorded on March 25th, 2026.Welcome to the Way of Compassion Dharma Center Podcast. Located in Carbondale, Colorado, the Way of Compassion Dharma center's primary objective is to provide programs of Buddhist studies and practices that are practical, accessible, and meet the needs of the communities we serve.  As a traditional Buddhist center, all of our teachings are offered freely. If you would like to make a donation to support the center, please visit www.wocdc.org.  May you flourish in your practice and may all beings swiftly be free of suffering.

On today's newscast: The ICE holding facility in west Glenwood Springs could be forced to close; Carbondale-based nonprofit Youthentity is hosting its first civics bee tomorrow; and boaters in Mesa County recently removed 5,400 pounds of trash from the Colorado River. Tune in for these stories and more.

Jonny and Heather conduct separate interviews in this episode, featuring talks with transgender writers doing presentations in Carbondale this coming weekend. In the front half of the show, Heather interviews Nico Lang, an impressive award winning journalist who will be giving a talk about their book, American Teenager: How Trans Kids are Surviving Hate and Finding Joy in a Turbulent Era. In the back half of the show, Jonny interviews Polish cultural anthropoligist, Dr. Jay Szpilka, who will be ging a presentation titled, "Drones, Puppies, and Mecha Pilots: Erotic Stykes beyond Cisness."Presentation Schedule:Nico Lang, May 3rd, 1 pm at the Carbondale Unitarian FellowshipDr. Jay Szpilka, May 4th, 4 pm in the Kleinau Theatre, 2nd floor of the Communications Building on the SIU campus.

On today's newscast: Carbondale has streamlined the permitting process to build additional housing on existing properties; Vail Resorts Rocky Mountain properties — which includes those in Colorado — took a 25% hit to visitor numbers this winter due to the lack of snow; and a group of states that use the Colorado River are trying to break a standstill in negotiations about its future. Tune in for these stories and more.

On today's newscast: Aspen's teachers' union hopes to reach an agreement with the school district over salary negotiations; a Carbondale startup is bringing floor tiles made from tulip buds to the Roaring Fork Valley; and with the rise of AI, Indigenous people around the world are growing more concerned about data sovereignty. Tune in for these stories and more.

In this episode, spiritual director John Bruna focuses on the topic of training the mind in attention by giving clear guidance on the practice of shamatha and its benefits. He also describes how concentration and the other 5 perfections weave together and support one another on the path to enlightenment. This episode was recorded on March 18th, 2026.Welcome to the Way of Compassion Dharma Center Podcast. Located in Carbondale, Colorado, the Way of Compassion Dharma center's primary objective is to provide programs of Buddhist studies and practices that are practical, accessible, and meet the needs of the communities we serve.  As a traditional Buddhist center, all of our teachings are offered freely. If you would like to make a donation to support the center, please visit www.wocdc.org.  May you flourish in your practice and may all beings swiftly be free of suffering.

This special episode of The Other Side of the Bell, featuring the life of trumpet composer, performer and innovator Kenny Wheeler, a conversation with biographers Nick Smart and Brian Shaw, is brought to you by Bob Reeves Brass. This episode also appears as a video episode on our YouTube channel, you can find it here: "Kenny Wheeler Special" And, find the expanded show notes, transcript and more photos here --- Kenny Wheeler has been an inspiration to trumpet players for generations, but in typical Kenny style, we haven't known a lot about his back story, career path and personality.   Until now.   Nick Smart and Brian Shaw, trumpet trailblazers in their own right, have collaborated on a new biography of Kenny Wheeler called Song For Someone: The Musical Life of Kenny Wheeler, which draws from interviews and archival material and research to tell a compelling and touching story.   Kenny went from small town Canada to becoming one of the most influential yet enigmatic jazz musicians in Europe. Along the way, he navigated through all kinds of obstacles, personal and professional, with quiet and understated courage, to truly become a distinct performer. Kenny's solos, improvisation and technical abilities were so unique that he garnered unmatched praise and respect as his career evolved.   And yet, underneath it all were what we would now consider mental health struggles, lack of confidence, imposter syndrome - all things that weren't discussed or acknowledged at the time.   Those who knew Kenny personally were full of universal acclaim for his warmth, kindness and subtle humor. Brian and Nick join John Snell on today's special episode to share some of the stories from their book, which paints a full picture of Kenny Wheeler's life and music.   About Kenny Wheeler: From Song For Someone: The Musical Life of Kenny Wheeler:   Trumpeter and composer Kenny Wheeler (1930–2014) was one of the most enigmatic and influential musicians in recent memory. His instantly recognisable sound was a driving force within every major innovation in modern European jazz during the last half of the 20th century. More importantly, his life provides us with a profound example of the way music can manifest itself in the most unlikely of vessels.   About Nick Smart: Head of Jazz Programmes at the Royal Academy of Music, Nick Smart is an internationally renowned Grammy nominated jazz trumpeter, conductor and educator who has given guest masterclasses and performances around the world.   Nick was a close colleague and friend of the late Kenny Wheeler and has been instrumental in keeping Wheeler's legacy alive. As well as being a member of Kenny's big band, Nick helped manage the latter stages of Kenny's career, secured the Kenny Wheeler Archive into the Royal Academy of Music Collections, and completed a PhD focused on Wheeler's development.   He also led and produced the Grammy nominated album recording, Kenny Wheeler Legacy - Some Days Are Better - released to critical acclaim on the US label Greenleaf Music in January 2025, featuring the Academy Jazz Orchestra in collaboration with the University Miami's Frost Jazz Orchestra.   About Brian Shaw: Brian Shaw is an active performer, arranger, and educator known for his versatility. He is one of the few trumpet players in the world equally comfortable in early music, orchestral, jazz, and commercial settings on modern and period instruments, and enjoys an international performing career as a modern and historical trumpet soloist.   Brian holds principal positions with the Dallas Winds, Santa Fe Pro Musica, Spire Baroque Orchestra. He is also a regular guest instructor of Historical Trumpet at the Eastman School of Music. From 2007-2021, he was Professor of Trumpet and Jazz Studies at Louisiana State University and was Principal Trumpet of the Baton Rouge (Louisiana) Symphony from 2014-2021.    Music Links From This Episode: Some Days Are Better: The Lost Scores (Dave Douglas, Kenny Wheeler Legacy), 2025 Gnu High, 1976 Deer Wan, 1978 Anthony Braxton, New York Fall, 1975 Ralph Towner Old Friends New Friends, 1979 Around Six, 1980 Music for Large and Small Ensembles, 1990   Purchase Song For Someone: The Musical Life of Kenny Wheeler    Bob Reeves Brass Upcoming Events and Appearances: Arkansas Trumpet Day, April 18th, Arkansas State University, Jonesboro, AR Valve alignments: First come, first served! Next Up! Concert Series: Los Angeles Brass Alliance, with special composition by Dan Rosenboom Pasadena Presbyterian Church, May 9, 7:00 pm https://www.labrassalliance.org/events/next-up-2026 Streaming link will appear in advance. William Adam Trumpet Festival July 9-12, Southern Illinois University, Carbondale, Ill. Podcast Credits: "A Room with a View" - composed and performed by Howie Shear Podcast Host - John Snell Cover Photo Credits - Courtesy Nick Smart, Brian Shaw and Equinox Publishing Audio Engineer - Ted Cragg

In this episode, spiritual director John Bruna discusses one of the main obstacles to our Dharma Practice called the Laziness of Busyness. He gives us many examples of how this obstacle shows up in our lives and encourages a shift in our motivation which can transform the busyness of daily life into a path to awakening. This episode was recorded on March 11th, 2026.Welcome to the Way of Compassion Dharma Center Podcast. Located in Carbondale, Colorado, the Way of Compassion Dharma center's primary objective is to provide programs of Buddhist studies and practices that are practical, accessible, and meet the needs of the communities we serve.  As a traditional Buddhist center, all of our teachings are offered freely. If you would like to make a donation to support the center, please visit www.wocdc.org.  May you flourish in your practice and may all beings swiftly be free of suffering.

Watch the video version here: https://youtu.be/Iv2VcEQHrGQOn this episode:

In this episode, spiritual director John Bruna offers a commentary on The Perfection of Joyous Effort. He speaks about the benefits of this practice and some obstacles that prevent us from engaging in meaningful dharma practice. This episode was recorded on March 4th, 2026.Welcome to the Way of Compassion Dharma Center Podcast. Located in Carbondale, Colorado, the Way of Compassion Dharma center's primary objective is to provide programs of Buddhist studies and practices that are practical, accessible, and meet the needs of the communities we serve.  As a traditional Buddhist center, all of our teachings are offered freely. If you would like to make a donation to support the center, please visit www.wocdc.org.  May you flourish in your practice and may all beings swiftly be free of suffering.

On today's newscast: Unofficial election results are in for Basalt, Carbondale and Parachute; more than 200 Colorado Army National Guard soldiers are heading to the Middle East; and a class-action lawsuit filed in late March says the two biggest ski companies in the U.S. have unlawfully inflated pass prices. Tune in for these stories and more.

Watch the video version here: https://youtu.be/ppgWZLWc-SEOn this episode:

In this episode, spiritual director John Bruna offers an overview of the path through a brief description of the Noble Eightfold Path. He then specifically focuses on the importance of ethics by expanding on the truth that all happiness comes from virtue. This episode was recorded on February 25th, 2026.Welcome to the Way of Compassion Dharma Center Podcast. Located in Carbondale, Colorado, the Way of Compassion Dharma center's primary objective is to provide programs of Buddhist studies and practices that are practical, accessible, and meet the needs of the communities we serve.  As a traditional Buddhist center, all of our teachings are offered freely. If you would like to make a donation to support the center, please visit www.wocdc.org.  May you flourish in your practice and may all beings swiftly be free of suffering.

Jonny and Heather are joined by T--Dr. T!--who recently defended his dissertation about leaving a local cult. They discuss the No Kings protest, the Supreme Court's decision on conversion therapy bans, and the cult like qualities of MAGA all through the lens of surviving an actual cult. Now that the dissertation is done and the degree is earned, Dr. T moves on to diving into local engagement through a variety of art and performance projects, motivated by connection to community as the best response for the global and national news that keeps pressing us down. 

On today's newscast: Candidates for Carbondale's Board of Trustees and mayor shared their thoughts on town issues at a candidate forum last week; the Colorado House passed a bill that would make it easier for homeowners to sell part of their property; and the Navajo Nation has come out in formal opposition to the SAVE America Act, saying it would disproportionately affect Navajo voters and other Indigenous tribal communities. Tune in for these stories and more.

In this episode, spiritual director John Bruna teaches on Losar, welcoming in the year of the Fire Horse with a teaching about the 3 higher trainings of ethics, wisdom, and concentration. He follows these foundational and transformative teachings with a Chenrezig purification practice focused on the 4 opponent powers. This episode was recorded on February 18th, 2026.Welcome to the Way of Compassion Dharma Center Podcast. Located in Carbondale, Colorado, the Way of Compassion Dharma center's primary objective is to provide programs of Buddhist studies and practices that are practical, accessible, and meet the needs of the communities we serve.  As a traditional Buddhist center, all of our teachings are offered freely. If you would like to make a donation to support the center, please visit www.wocdc.org.  May you flourish in your practice and may all beings swiftly be free of suffering.

On today's newscast: A wildfire in Carbondale closed Highway 133 in both directions for about an hour and a half yesterday; Colorado lawmakers are working to finalize the state's budget and fill a billion and a half dollar shortfall; and the Environmental Protection Agency recently axed measures meant to ratchet down pollution from coal plants. Tune in for these stories and more.

Dayempur Herbals & Midwest Medical Thermography: Natural Health Businesses Growing in Southern IllinoisOn the Small Town Big Business podcast in Marion, Illinois, host Joe Kuski interviews Carbondale-based natural health entrepreneurs Anita Brown and Terry Hickey, who collaborate through DME Health Services, LLC. Brown runs Midwest Medical Thermography, a mobile digital infrared screening service focused on physiology and early detection of inflammation and disease, and also practices naturopathy/functional medicine through Radiant Functional Health. Hickey owns Dayempur Herbals, which grows and manufactures herbal supplements and personal care products at Dayempur Farm in Anna, Illinois, ships nationwide, and supports education through events and a new podcast, Healing Connections. They discuss building supportive practitioner networks, challenges of rural population density, and growing businesses organically with help from resources like ETHOS and the SBDC. Upcoming events include the Women's Health Naturally Expo & Workshops (March 28, hormone balance theme), a Women's Networking Breakfast (April 16), and an Herbal Medicine Workshop at Dayempur Farm (June 20).00:00 Podcast Welcome Sponsors00:50 Meet Today's Guests02:09 Sister Businesses Collaboration04:29 Anita's Origin Story06:04 Terry's Herbal Journey08:24 Thermography Explained10:29 Mobile Scans Scheduling12:13 Barriers to Natural Healing16:48 Client Success Stories21:44 Thermography Age Breast Health24:19 Groovy Booby Breast Oils26:40 Men's Health Hotspots28:01 Hawthorn Heart Support28:37 Bodybuilding Detox Concerns29:21 Why Southern Illinois30:58 Farm Grown Herb Operation32:27 Growing Beyond Local Limits34:35 Organic Business Growth37:36 Help With Admin Tasks39:46 Best Parts Of The Work41:39 How To Find Them43:36 Women's Health Expo48:21 Women's Networking Breakfast50:52 Herbal Workshop At The Farm52:59 Wrap Up And Sponsors

What if the real secret to business growth is not creativity but competition? I sat down with Chris Dreyer, founder of Rankings.io, who built one of the fastest-growing legal marketing companies by mastering SEO, niche focus, and relentless execution. Chris shares how his early work ethic shaped his path, why he chose the highly competitive personal injury space, and how treating business like a math-based game helped him scale. You will hear how content, reviews, and authority drive Google rankings, why most lawyers misunderstand marketing, and how narrowing your focus can actually expand your results. I believe you will find this useful as Chris shows how discipline, data, and consistency can turn any business into an unstoppable force. Highlights: 00:56 – How early work and family habits built a strong work ethic05:00 – Why taking the hardest job created resilience and grit12:12 – How serving people helped develop communication and confidence24:22 – Why choosing a competitive niche leads to greater success37:08 – What it takes to rank at the top of Google consistently51:16 – How doing free work early builds skill and long-term growth Bottom of Form About the Guest: Chris Dreyer is the CEO and Founder of Rankings.io, the category-defining SEO agency built exclusively to help elite law firms and personal injury lawyers dominate Google's organic search results. Under his leadership, Rankings.io has become synonymous with measurable results, helping attorneys secure life-changing cases through visibility at the exact moment potential clients are searching for help. The company has achieved what few in the legal marketing space ever have, earning a spot on the Inc. 5000 list of fastest-growing private companies for eight consecutive years, proof of both sustained growth and relentless execution. Beyond Rankings, Chris is a builder of platforms and a voice of authority in legal marketing and entrepreneurship. He is the Wall Street Journal and USA Today best-selling author of Niching Up: The Narrower the Market, the Bigger the Prize, where he details how focus creates outsized impact. He is also a seasoned real estate investor and the host of the Personal Injury Mastermind podcast, where he interviews top attorneys and business leaders shaping the future of law. His influence extends across respected councils and networks, including the Forbes Agency Council, Rolling Stone Culture Council, Business Journals Leadership Trust, Fast Company Executive Board, and Newsweek Expert Forum, cementing his reputation as both a practitioner and thought leader. Chris's path to entrepreneurship has been unconventional yet relentlessly instructive. Once a world-ranked collectible card game competitor, he carried that same strategic mindset into business. After earning a History Education degree, his first professional role was as a detention room supervisor, hardly glamorous, but it provided the unstructured time that sparked his obsession with digital marketing. He began experimenting with affiliate sites and, at his peak, managed more than 100 properties simultaneously. This side hustle soon eclipsed his day job, propelling him into full-time entrepreneurship. When affiliate marketing's golden age waned, Chris pivoted into legal SEO and quickly carved out a niche. Along the way, he also became a top-ranked online poker player, honing skills in risk management and probability that would serve him well in scaling his companies. Today, Chris runs Rankings.io with the same competitive fire he once brought to cards and poker, driven to outthink, outwork, and outlast the competition. His mission is simple: help the best personal injury law firms win more cases, build enduring legacies, and dominate their markets. Ways to connect with Chris**:** website: rankings.io https://x.com/chrisdreyerco https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisdreyerco/ https://www.facebook.com/chrisdreyerco https://www.instagram.com/chrisdreyerco/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe Welcome to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. I'm your host. Michael Hingson, speaker, author and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear, together, we focus on mindset resilience and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi everyone, and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset. Today, our guest is Chris Dreyer. Chris, Chris has formed a company called rankings.ai. And I'm going to let him describe what all that is about. And he's done some pretty interesting things with it. It has been on inks top 5000 companies, growing companies for the past eight years. Eight years is a long time, which is pretty cool. So I'm sure he's got lots of adventures and lots of stories to talk about. So Chris, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're Chris Dreyer  01:35 here. Yeah, thanks for having me, Michael. I'm excited to chat. Michael Hingson  01:39 Well, let's start with kind of the early Chris growing up and all that, and see where we go from there. It sounds Chris Dreyer  01:45 good to me. So yeah, Michael Hingson  01:46 let's go. Why don't you tell us a little bit about Yeah, school and all that stuff. Chris Dreyer  01:51 Okay, yeah, let me, let me, and then you just cut me off at any point, because I can be a long Michael Hingson  01:55 talker the so can I? I Chris Dreyer  01:56 know what you mean. I, I grew up in a very small city, elkville, Illinois, my high school had 100 people in it. I was a graduating class of 28 I grew up, I would say it's kind of weird. My mom and dad, if they heard me say poor, would not love me saying poor, but I we weren't. We were certainly at the bottom of middle class or the upper or poor. I had a lot of chores. I every single weekend, I cleaned a law office with my mom or did something at the farmers market. So and at the time, it wasn't work. It was just what we did as a family, right? I didn't even understand it. We had, we didn't have city water. We had to get a truck and bring in our water, and we had well water, right? And in my family, and that was, that was early on, right? My dad was a milk carrier. My mom was a cook and and ultimately, they did better over the years and made more money. But it started off, it was a lot, a lot of grit, perseverance, working hard. And I like to share that, because my parents work ethic is very strong, very dependable, very consistent. And that's kind of where I got my drive. But that's, that's kind of how I grew up, small, small town, you know, a lot of side hustles with the parents. And once I went to college, I got that, that shock of, oh, here's a whole bunch of go from 100 to, you know, 20,000 Yeah, it's a bit of a shock there. 03:35 Where'd you go to college? Chris Dreyer  03:36 Yeah, I went to SIU, Southern Illinois University. There in Carbondale, Illinois. I actually live in Carbondale today. And, you know, I went to college. I was always had that entrepreneurial bug, and, but I went to college, it was kind of to make mom and dad happy to get that degree and, but I just knew that I was going to own my own business. And I kind of had that conversation with them out of the gate, but so I was a terrible student. Partied a lot, you know, chase the women, so to speak, and but somehow, ended up with a degree, got a job at a high school as their JV basketball coach, and I started doing internet marketing on the side to make a little extra money because I had some downtime. And by the end of my second year teaching, I was making about four times the amount doing that that I was teaching. So that was kind of my sign, and to go pursue that full time, and that's what I did. That's when I left to do affiliate marketing and digital marketing full time was after Michael Hingson  04:41 that second year, of course. Now the real question is, you were chasing the women? Did any of them 04:44 chase you? Oh yeah, oh yeah. Just Michael Hingson  04:49 want to make sure it's reciprocal here. Yeah, that's that's pretty cool, though. And I was going to ask you, and you sort of answered it, about your workout. Ethic and so on. I find that if people do grow up in an environment where they're working and they appreciate what they do get and the amount of work that they do, and they develop a strong work ethic, or their parents have it, they generally do as well, although sometimes there's some rebellions, but still, ultimately, the right stuff shows through. Chris Dreyer  05:24 Can I tell just a brief story about that? My mom, when I turned 16, it was like, you're getting a job, son, right? And it was not, we had, we were fine without, but it was like, so she took me to this place. It was called Ken's antiques, and they used to do the semi truck deliveries of aluminum, and I used to go to auctions and unload furniture. And I asked her, I was like, Why did you take me there? Well, you know, why didn't you take me to the mall? Why didn't you know to go work at a the buckle or the gap or something, you know, why did you take me? There she goes. Well, I knew if you could, if you could succeed here, you'd be fine anywhere, because it was the hardest job that I could think of. And I was like, Oh, really, thanks, Mom. Like, send me to the to the hardest job that you could think of and see if I could thrive. And I did well there. But that just kind of goes to show you the mindset that my mom had racing me, which also kind of, you know, attached to me as well. Michael Hingson  06:26 Yeah, well, and I can appreciate course, now looking back on it, of course, but I can appreciate what she said, because if you can survive in one place, and you can if it's if it is a tough job and you approach it the right way, then you'll probably be good anywhere, and there you go. Chris Dreyer  06:47 Yep, yep, to her credit, it was a very tough job. It is as still to this day, the hardest job from a physically demanding perspective that I had, but, but yeah, and it was good. It built resilience, you know, kind of helped me get that that put that true grit on and yeah, so that's kind of my background. Michael Hingson  07:08 I never did really work at a job growing up, my brother did. He worked at a restaurant and so on and bus tables and did other things. But I remember, when he got his first job, he went and applied at a at a restaurant, and the owner or manager, I guess probably both said, so, you know, we'll, we'll consider you. Would you do us a favor? There's some weeds out in the in the front, would you go pull those? And he said, within about a half hour, he got the whole place completely cleaned up of weeds. And the boss came out and said, You did all of that. And my brother said, Yeah. And guy said, You're hired. You know, amazing, you know, because my brother didn't even realize, I think at first, that that was really a test, but it was, and of course, he passed, which was cool. That's a great story, but I never got really to do much work. I kind of was more the intellectual guy in the family, and finding jobs would have been a little bit more of a challenge for me. I did do some babysitting, but that was about all I could do. I've been blind my whole life, and a lot of the jobs that were available in Palmdale, where I grew up in Southern California, were not jobs I was going to realistically be able to do anyway, but I could babysit, and that worked out pretty well. Yeah, yeah. So I mainly studied, Chris Dreyer  08:41 love it. So So studied. Can I? Can I do the reverse interview? What's some of your your top motivational books, business books? Because I'm sure you've got some that just pop top of the dome. Well, sort of, kind Michael Hingson  08:55 of, I really have a slightly different idea about that, but I'll tell you, I've read a number of the main books in the whole motivational and and management world. One Minute Manager is a book I appreciate a great deal. And I also like Dale Carnegie books like How to Win Friends and Influence People. But for me, I point out, and even to this day point out that I've learned more about teamwork and trust and leadership from working with eight Guide Dogs for the last 61 years than I ever learned from all the management and leadership books and everything else that's out there, mainly because working with dogs, you have several things that are An issue, first of all, respecting them and the job that they do, knowing that you're really forming a team with a guide dog, where each member of the team has a job to do. So in my case, the dog, and the case of people who use guide dogs, the purpose of the dog is to make sure that we walk safely as. We're walking somewhere, but my job is to know where to go and how to get there, and then I have to learn how to communicate that to the dog, and also be the leader of the pack in the truest sense of the word, which also means that if the dog is upset, or there is any kind of an issue with the dog, I have to figure out what that is, and I have to read what is going on so that I understand that and can then figure out what is occurring and make sure that the dog stays happy so it's you. There's so much to learn about trust, and one of the main things I've learned over the years is while dogs do, I think love unconditionally, unless they're just so badly traumatized by somebody for some reason they don't trust unconditionally. But the difference between dogs and people is that dogs are open to trust a whole lot more than we are. We have just had so many things go on. We read we bought them in the newspapers, we see it on the news and so on. Nobody trusts anyone. The feeling is basically everyone has their own hidden agenda, and so you can't trust anyone. And so there's very little communications today. There's very little real interaction. And people, by definition, don't trust. Dogs are open to trust, and you can earn their trust, and likewise, they get to and can earn your trust, and it is a it is a combination and kind of thing. So what I really learn when I go to get a new guide dog every time is I'm learning how to form a team with this other dog who doesn't speak the same language I do, who doesn't think the way I do. But I have to figure out what this dog does, what this dog is all about, and I'm the one that has to become the leader of the of the team and make things work. So I think that working with a dog is a lot more of a practical experience kind of thing than just reading about whatever there is to read about in books and so on. So that's why I say that. I think I've learned a lot more by working with dogs than I ever got from all the management books in the world, any of the Tony Robbins books, or any Chris Dreyer  12:07 of those. I love, every bit of that I just I was on x the other day, and it was talking about the the new CEO for Starbucks, right? Because the former CEO was McKinsey trained, right, but didn't have any actual experience at the helm. And then they brought back the former CEO of Taco Bell over to Starbucks, and the stock immediately shot up because of the application aspect of it. He had, he had done the job and been in the grind. So it's kind of interesting, kind of corollary there. But yeah, thank you for sharing. I was really intrigued, and I had to jump in and and ask, Michael Hingson  12:45 Oh, fair question, and then this is a conversation, so nothing wrong with asking questions on either side. So it's perfectly fine to to be able to do that well, so what did you do right out of college? Chris Dreyer  12:59 Right out of college, the one thing I'll tell you that I still to this day, I call myself an introvert. I don't think that, you know, introvert, extrovert. I think we have the tendencies at all times to be either one, right? But I think for me, I was more shy, but I built a lot of friends because I played sports and I knew them in college, and then they met, they introduced me to their friends. Because you got to imagine, when I had a class of 28 kids, it's like super small community versus, you know, everybody I'm interacting through their connections and their extended connections. So through college, I'd say the main education thing I got was, I did get a job waiting tables for three years, and so I got a lot of client service training, dealing with people having a ton of conversations through that, through my through my job, and also through my personal relationships with my friends and and other, you know, Students at the University, but so I think that kind of helped, helped me succeed afterwards, but afterwards, really, when I student taught at Heron, they saw my work ethic. They saw a shoe up, that I showed up, that I listened and I took action. So they, they hired me immediately, and I did the same when I was a JV basketball coach. I never missed a practice. Was always on time. Really tried to develop the kids and bring the most out of them, treated the parents well, and so I think that's what I did well, and it kind of put me in the position to have time to learn internet marketing. So I think that's kind of how it all started, Michael Hingson  14:47 when I was getting my teaching credential at UC Irvine, and I also got my master's degree in physics from there. But I student taught at the local high school, at University High School, and I student. Taught two classes. One was a physics class, and it was kind of for they called it dumbbell physics, but you know, it was kids who were sort of interested in science, but really didn't know where they wanted to go. But the other class was algebra one, and I remember one day I was teaching, and one of the students asked a question, and I didn't know the answer to it, and I probably should have, but I didn't. But what I said was, I don't know the answer right off, tell you, what do you mind if I look at it tonight, get you the answer and bring it back tomorrow. And the kid who was an eighth grader, actually accelerated, so it was high school algebra one, but he was from the eighth grade. He said, Sure, so I went home and found the answer in the book, when I should have known that, but anyway, came back in the next day, and even before I could say anything, he said, Mr. Hingson, I went home and got the answer, and I said, Well, come up and write it on the board. And one of the things that I did with with all of my classes when, of course, we had blackboards and all that, back in those days, I would want a student to come up and be the board writer, because they write a lot better than I do. And so we, we had pretty good competitions of people who wanted to write on the board. They all thought it was kind of fun, and I did spread that wealth around, but Marty came up and I said, now you got to explain what you're writing. And he had actually found the answer, which was cool, but my master teacher was also the football coach, and when I first told Marty and the rest of the class, I don't know the answer, but I will get it after class was over, Mr. Redmond said you did something that's absolutely amazing and was absolutely the right thing to do, and most people wouldn't do it. And that was you admitted you didn't know the answer, but you would go get it rather than trying to blow smoke, because these kids can see through that in a second. And he said, So you did the right thing, and I've always felt that's the way to do it. If I don't know the answer, I'll go figure it out, but I will also tell you that I don't know the answer, and you can decide whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, but I think it's a good thing, to be honest, Chris Dreyer  17:22 I couldn't agree more. Michael Hingson  17:25 And so it was fun. And and what the the other part of the story, and I think I've told it a couple times on the podcast, is 10 years later, I was at the Orange County Fairgrounds, and this kid comes up to me, Well, he was, he didn't sound like a kid anymore. And he said, Mr. Hingson, do you know who this is? Deep voice. And I went, No, not right off. And he said, I'm Marty. I'm the guy that was in your algebra class 10 years ago. Nice to be remembered, but, but he he also just remembered what happened. And I think he even said it was so cool that I was honest with him about it, which was, you know, a life lesson anybody should learn. Chris Dreyer  18:09 That's incredible. That's incredible. So Michael Hingson  18:10 it was a lot of fun. Well, so you student taught and so on, but eventually you ended up deciding to go into the entrepreneur world. But you also were a card collector, right? A game collector, yeah. Chris Dreyer  18:25 And in high school, I played this collectible card game. I played a combination of two. I mean, most people are familiar with Magic, The Gathering, but I also played this other game called Legend of five rings. And both, you know, the collectible card games, but they're really math based games based upon advantage and and, you know, you so now it's applicable to today. I can look at any whether it's Pokemon or whatever card game there is. It's, it was very, you know, it's force based, you know, benefits to attack and things like that. It attributes everything. But anyways, I played it competitively, and I was a top I was a world ranked player at one time. I won four state championships or CO days. No one had done that at the time in a two consecutive years, and it was just a top player, and when you get to the top, you become friends with the other top players, and then you talk strategy and and that even takes you to an even higher level. And so I did that, you know, for many years, competed all over the country. It was a great experience. And so, yeah, that in my house. My dad very so he had, he was a civil engineer. He has an engineer degree, but he was traveling. He was on the railroad at all times, and he wanted to stop traveling, so he accepted this job as a mail carrier so he could stay put. And. Yeah, and that's what he did. He retired as a mail carrier, but, you know, a top math expert to the to the point where there would be conversations where you could, like, I couldn't understand him, right? He couldn't understand himself, right? And, and, and there's many conversations in different aspects of this. But when we played games, whether it was Yahtzee or monopoly or whatever, every game, there was a math based lesson to it, like, which dice you rolled for advantage at Yahtzee, which ones to hold after the first roll. Poker games, pitch games, Rummy, every single game it was, it was game theory. It was math on what was the precise the best role, like Monopoly, the best properties and the probability to get an orange property over other properties and and how much you should spend at certain points of the game. And I realized saying that outline that's that that's not normal. Some people just play yatse and roll the dice and they roll what they want, and some people play Monopoly and just buy the properties they want. That was not how games were played in my household, and it was very applicable to poker and to the collectible card games. Michael Hingson  21:22 Yeah. So how often did you want to buy Boardwalk and Park Place? Chris Dreyer  21:28 Not often. But I mean, so there. That was just how I was brought up. And yeah, and it turned into a lot of what I do today. Michael Hingson  21:42 Actually, I always like free parking. We had a thing where any money and and any kind of thing that you had to pay on all went into the free parking pot. So getting free parking was always fun. Oh yeah, but yeah, I hear what you're saying. I love monopoly and love to even play it against the computer, which was always a kind of a neat thing to do, but played Monopoly against other members of my family. Some we actually made a Well, we took a regular Monopoly board, and I think my father outlined the entire board and all the squares using elmer's glue so that we had raised lines for me to look at. Then we also did things to mark the paper money so I could tell what bills I had and and so on, and even Braille the cards. And I still have that game to this day, very neat, which is kind of cool, but monopoly spun. Chris Dreyer  22:36 Yeah, there's a lot of games that you know, there's no winner. You take my wife wants to play Scrabble all the time, and I'm like, there's just not a winner in Scrabble. Because if I challenge you on a word, and I'm right, you're wrong. You're mad if I beat you, you know, and then if I lose, it's not fulfilling for me. That's one of those games. There's no winner. Michael Hingson  23:02 I have a friend who plays Scrabble with his mother all the time, and and he, I think he loses more than he wins, but he's always proud when he beats her. And he's almost 60, so you know, she's, she's older than he is, but they, they play and have a lot of fun with Scrabble. Chris Dreyer  23:21 That's incredible. That's Michael Hingson  23:22 great. Yeah, it is kind of cool. But anyway, so you eventually decided to go off and go into the entrepreneurial world, and you started your company, or went well, when did you actually start the company? Chris Dreyer  23:37 Started the company officially in 2013 it was attorney rankings.org, that was the original name. Now it's rankings.io, I worked at a few agencies previously, while I was also doing the affiliate marketing, and kind of got to see the agency world of providing, you know, the professional services space. And after working at a few agencies. Thought that I could do it right. I got the confidence from the competence, and that's when I launched it. 2013 we've always been focused on legal. The difference today is primarily, we're focused on a sub niche of legal for personal injury law. And, you know, we work with other practice areas, criminal defense, family law, etc. But really personal injury is the is 85% of our business. Michael Hingson  24:27 So what is it that rankings.io? Does, Chris Dreyer  24:31 yeah, we do digital marketing. We do search engine optimization now, AI search, we do pay per click paid social web design. A lot of performance marketing, I would say more performance, less creative and branding. And that's what we do. We work with the top, the biggest pi firms, personal injury law firms in the country. We're in chiefs, I think every state we work with about. 250 law firms across the country. Michael Hingson  25:03 What made you decide to focus on law in the beginning? Chris Dreyer  25:09 Yeah, I'll say a few reasons. One, I had an experience working with attorneys, and I liked working with them. So there was the like component when I worked at an agency, I had a few firms that would I spoke with, and I enjoyed it. The second thing was, if I'm being honest, the status like I wanted to tell my parents that I did marketing for lawyers, and not just, you know, any industry. And then the other thing is, is I'm very, very, very competitive, and I kept seeing and hearing these reports about more and more attorneys going to law school and and just all this competition for legal and the thing that I differ you hear a lot of coaches and mentors. They'll say, hey, go to the blue ocean. You know, everyone's read the blue ocean book, or, you know, Peter thiel's zero to one, and everyone thinks so, go where there's no competition. And I'm like, That's fine if you're Elon or Peter Thiel or Zuckerberg creating something new, but if you're going into an existing category, you want to go where there is competition, because it demands expertise, and that's the way that I've looked at it. Like, you take the agency perspective, I don't want to go to, you know, lawn care, SEO like, do they really want to do search engine optimization? Do they really have a ton of competition? Maybe that's not a great example. But you get my point where, if you go into the city, there's a ton of personal injury law firms, but there's only a few that can rank at the top. And there's, they're all trying to gather cases from one another, so they want an expert to help them, you know, get that visibility. And that's, that's the mindset that Michael Hingson  26:58 went into it. What strikes me is interesting, though, is that with all of that, you bring a very competitive level to what you do. And I'm not sure that I find that a lot of people necessarily even do that, so you consider even search engine optimization to be a very competitive thing, I don't want to say sport, but you consider it all about competition, and you want to really bring the best and the most significant aspects of it to what you do. And that clearly has to show up when you're talking about Inc ranking you in the top companies for eight years in a row. Chris Dreyer  27:47 Yeah, it's very status orientation. You know, that's why I like working with trial attorneys. There's a winner and loser in court, and there's only one top position in Google or on these llms, and it's, who's gonna win, who's the best? Yeah, and it's right there for everyone. Here's here's the tally. Everyone can see who's the best. And I've always loved that. I think I heard a podcast recently by John Morgan. He's the founder of Morgan, Morgan, right? Of course. And you know, he's always a character and funny to listen to, but, yeah, he talks about being insatiable. Like, how did you grow this? He's like, Well, I'm insatiable. I I want to continue to grow. And for me, it's, it's the exact same thing. It's like, I'm insatiable. We hit a milestone. I want the next milestone. It is the game that I'm playing. I am playing like my hobby is my business. I enjoy it. I look forward to a Monday. It rewards me mentally. I enjoy the people I work with. And that's that's how we're at you know, Inc, 5008 years in a row, we'll definitely be on the ninth year next year, due to our growth this year. And it's that's just, that's just how I treat it. It's just a big game. And, you know, like any game, you play Sim City, whatever, you get a little bit more money, you get a little bit more buildings, right? You do a little bit better, you hire more talent, you expand your capabilities, and you just, if you don't stop, you're going to Michael Hingson  29:22 continue to grow. But it's a game in the mathematical sense, and it's it's a game in the the productive sense of what you're trying to do is, isn't the game just, although you obviously have to have fun in what you do, otherwise you wouldn't enjoy doing it. But it's a game in the mathematical sense of the word, oh, 100% Chris Dreyer  29:44 and so many people don't understand what I'm about to say. But like, every move that you make is a move based upon leverage in some capacity, yeah, and you take, because our time is all limited. You take. I'll give you some examples, like from a from a distribution perspective, hosting my podcast or being on your podcast is going to have more listeners than if I go speak on stage, if I go speak on stage now that that has its own benefits of authority and and different you know, belly to belly relationships from a trust perspective, but from a distribution perspective, I would be better off doing more podcasts than I would speaking on stage, sure. So there's an advantage there, right? And then there's also advantages through pricing arbitrage, and it's if, if I hire labor and talent in in the Midwest, and I pay them above average fees and salaries, and I pay my employees well, but compare that to New York or California. And I think some people, you know, these are things that they don't talk about, but when you start to look at leverage closely, it's everywhere. Capital, economies of scale, if I you know, there's leverage based upon my my buying power in certain areas, and that's what I look for. It's an interesting way to make decisions. Is based upon that leverage component. Michael Hingson  31:20 Do you think that that works in other kinds of arenas, other than just what you do? Chris Dreyer  31:27 Oh, I won 1,000% yes, yeah. It works in you could see it. You know, the closest would be, closest arena would be sports. There's so many, whether it's the salary caps or the talent of one person's labor based, you know, what they can do from a utilization or capacity versus another one's people talk about it on the business side of like, you know, You have one software programmer is worth, potentially 1,000x another one just because of that individual's capabilities. So it's literally everywhere, and it's also dissecting different scenarios into fractional leverage. So I'll take give you a different way of thinking about this. Is like, you take a an SEO specialist, a top tier SEO specialist might be 100 200 grand, right, technician, right? But you you break down their capabilities into the smaller parts. You know someone that just writes, someone that just does the title tags and the website, and someone that just does the links and that, like you can assemble, that individuals that that superstars talent through the FRAC breaking it down from a fractional perspective. It's just a big game of puzzles and how you get there and you look at like what your competitors are doing and how you can, I wouldn't say, exploit in a negative way, but, but what I mean is how you can take advantage in a positive way to to help your business succeed, right? Michael Hingson  33:15 Well, do you so if, if you're playing a game like football, of course, everybody, every team, wants to crush the other team, and it's all about winning and beating the heck out of the other guy. Is that really the way you view it, in terms of the game, as you play it, and do you enjoy being able to just crush the competition? Or is it a different mindset than that? Chris Dreyer  33:42 That's a really good question, because I am an abundance mindset. I don't think everything is a zero sum game. It's, I'll tell you something super nerdy. I was talking to my chief of staff the other day that he's we're big gamers, big nerds. And he, we were talking about Warhammer 40k and the dwarves in that game have a book of grudges. So anybody that that goes against the dwarves, they they're listed in the book of grudges, right? Yeah. And it's like all the dwarves are trying to, you know, right? This wrong. And I kind of look like that. I'm like, treat people respect like, you know, abundance zero, you know, like, abundance mentality. Do the referral thing until it's like, okay, you've done X, Y and Z, and I could give you examples of x, y, z, and it's like, okay, well, you're not my friend. You're not my ally, so now you are a true competitor by all since you know, by all definitions, right? That's how I've treated it. Michael Hingson  34:48 And so it isn't the joy of just beating everybody in sight. No, which is different, which is cool, because certainly. I would, I would also bet, though, that you have people who are competitors, but they're not unfriendly, so you can absolutely, yeah, you can develop Chris Dreyer  35:10 working relationships. Rattle off, and we have great conversations. We're friends, and people are surprised when they see us, and we're friendly, and it's like, no, it's like, we have families, we have life. We want to do good work. We want to and it's so you can absolutely have that too. Yeah. Michael Hingson  35:27 Why did you decide to specifically choose personal injury Chris Dreyer  35:33 for me? And it's this is turning into the math conversation. But really, I looked at our revenue, and it was like over 70% of our revenue. Was from less than 50% of our clientele. And it was a clear directional signal to pursue this area. And that's it was the math like, these are our best clients. They pay the most, they stay the longest we could do the best work. Also the PI space is the Super Bowl. Is the major leagues. In the legal arena, it's, it's very difficult to rank. There's a lot of competition versus, you know, I get a family law attorney. I don't care what market you're in, Los Angeles, it's like a sneeze to get them the number one or two? Yeah, it's and I like that. I like the competition. I like having to work at it and be creative and think about different things to try to obtain that top position. Michael Hingson  36:33 Yeah, well, so I would, I would presume that John Morgan's happy with you. Chris Dreyer  36:40 I, you know, I had Dan Morgan as a keynote for my 2024 conference, his son. And I haven't personally talked to John. I think he's well, he says he's retired, but he's not really retired, yeah, right. The I couldn't work with Morgan and Morgan, I can have a great relationship with them, but I can't work with them because they're in every market, and my I would, they would be my only client, so that's why, but certainly have a great relationship. I've got a text relationship with Dan, but yeah, they, I think they do everything in house. Michael Hingson  37:20 Anyways, you don't want to be the consularity for Morgan and Morgan, in other words, Chris Dreyer  37:25 your only client, right, right? That would put a lot of risk on the old client concentration problem, Michael Hingson  37:33 and it would, but still. So what does it mean for a law firm to dominate Google's organic search. And I guess the other question is, why is that the legal battleground that personal injury lawyers can't really ignore? Chris Dreyer  37:53 There's, there's so much here. Okay, where do I go? That's a lot of take. You take any channel, broadcast television has been the main vehicle for channel for distribution. It's the lowest CPMs cost per 1000. The distribution is very wide, because an individual doesn't know typically, when they're going to be in an accident, right? So you got to have a lot of reach and touch a lot of individuals. There's also radio and billboards. But typically, even if they watch you on television or hear you on the radio or what have you, they still convert. They go to Google to make that conversion that go to the website. Typically, it's not always and and things are changing due to these llms and the native experiences on platform. But even today, it's still the final destination before they contact a firm. So it's really important that you show up at the top of Google to capture all of those opportunities that you've advertised for in other mediums. Michael Hingson  39:09 How do you do that? Chris Dreyer  39:12 Well, so you know, I'll say, I'll try to simplify for the audience. Let's just keep it really, think of like a Venn diagram of, you know, the three circles overlaying and you've got the middle. You have to do all three. The first one is you have to have excellent content. You have to have, you know, if you're an auto accident attorney, you have to have content about auto accidents. You have to have, you know, you have to have content that targets phrases and words that consumers will search for, right? It starts with the content. It has to be thematically and topically relevant. Has to be excellent content. The second component would be related to. Views. You got to get Google reviews to show up on in the LSA, the local services ads location, you have to get reviews to show up in Google Map Pack. You need reviews now on Yelp to show up on and be discovered on these different llms, particularly a chat GPT. And just due to how okay for the SEO nerds listening, let me explain, because typically when you get reviews on Yelp and when you get reviews or recommendations on Facebook, they aggregate that information to other sites, which is then the listicles that form the basis of discovery for these llms. So you got to have a review background. So content reviews and then links. Google, the way that they differentiated, again, way against lo AOL was they use links as a categorization method. So if you're trying to win an election, you want to get as many votes as possible. If you're trying to win the first page of Google, you want to get as many high quality links as possible. High quality being authoritative, relevant, trustworthy, you know, sites that get a lot of traffic, so you need great content, lot of reviews and links. That is the very 8020, high end summer summary of of how to rank in Google search and on the llms, yeah. Michael Hingson  41:24 Well, and how does LinkedIn fit into what you do? Chris Dreyer  41:29 LinkedIn is a bit different. I you know LinkedIn more B to B platform. I think if you're a business attorney or a B to B firm, it's an excellent channel. I use it from a distribution perspective. I get a lot of reach. I get a lot of followers on there. A lot of attorneys congregate on there. And it's a great, you know, channel for recruiting talent, and it's cited frequently if you have some type of reputation perspective that you want to control around your name. LinkedIn typically ranks in one of the top three positions for your name if you have your profile set up properly. So yeah, it's, it's, it's got great distribution from a leverage perspective, and, you know, has other applications as well. Michael Hingson  42:15 If you were starting a law firm today, or you were advising someone who's starting a law firm, how would you deal with and start their marketing efforts? How would you organize marketing for them? Chris Dreyer  42:28 Yeah, in the beginning I would, I would do almost all performance marketing. I would not do. I would do very little with brands, because you need to get on your your cash acceleration cycle is very poor. From a PI perspective. I'm always thinking from an injury law firm perspective, because, you know, if you get an auto accident case by the time they get treatment and go through the whole process, you know, it could be 12 to 18 months before you get paid. So you know, I would think about performance marketing, Facebook ads, Google ads, LSA, SEO, a lot of the ads platforms that are, you know, very performance driven. That would be the majority of my investment. Facebook ads. So in a vacuum, you know, different markets are, there's different channels that are more effective. But in a vacuum, I would say today, right now, Facebook ads would be the best platform, the best channel for that, Michael Hingson  43:29 because so many, because it has such a high volume of viewers, or what Chris Dreyer  43:34 they're well, it's just the cost per lead. The amount that you pay on that platform to reach your target prospect is going to be cheaper than say, you go to Google ads and you're paying $600 a click for a phrase, or, you know, it's just now, there's, again, this is in a vacuum. There's very effective Google Ad strategies you can get, you know, creative with performance, Max campaigns and and different strategies. But I would say just in general, Facebook ads out of the gate would be one that I would start with, and I would start the SEO early, just because it takes time to develop. Michael Hingson  44:14 Yeah, well, that makes sense, and it does take a long time, and I think a lot of people don't necessarily understand how all of that works, but it's still something that they should, should deal with Chris Dreyer  44:28 1,000% and, you know, it's, it's a game of, it's a long game, but it, you know, even SEO can be on a shorter time horizon, if, if You're, like, if you target Car Accident Lawyer in that phrase and that segment, then sure, yeah, 12 to 18 months is, you know, you know, even two years before you start to get some visibility. But you target dog bites, you target, you know, some other case types that aren't as competitive like you can get traction sooner. Michael Hingson  45:00 Hmm, well, and that kind of brings up the question you You talk a lot about, and you wrote a book about niche. Why is it that going into like a smaller niche can yield sort of a greater opportunity, or by narrowing focus, you're creating bigger opportunities? Why is that? So? Chris Dreyer  45:22 What comes top of mind? Some of the biggest, the most important reason is it all centers around this word focus. When you focus in a single area, you become better. Well, because you were better, you can you can at your you can charge more because you're worth it. The other thing is, is when you focus on a single area, you you can create, create repeatable processes, and everything is not bespoke when it comes in. So you can set up your internal productization of a certain area. You it makes training easier by immersion. So there's a lot of benefits, even even the perception aspect of it, right? So when you think of like, who's better, a generalist versus a brain surgeon, you think a brain surgeon is a specialist. And you think, Well, who do you think, just offhand, whose fees would be higher? Well, you think the brain surgeon would would charge higher fees. And so from a perception perspective, and when you're thinking about trust, the that's the other one, right? You would think from a trust perspective, they would be more qualified because they're in this certain area. So, and when we're trying to convert someone in sales, it's always a conversation based upon trust. So those are some of the main advantages, the one heavy, heavy disadvantage. Disadvantage is Tam, total addressable market. It's you focus on personal injury. You're at 50, 60,000 firms. You focus on all law firms. United States, you're at 400,000 law firms. So there's trade offs for you know, there's pros and cons on both sides well Michael Hingson  47:03 and and that makes sense, but there is a lot of merit to the to the whole concept of specializing, and you've proven it with what you do, and you continue to be pretty successful about it. And then that makes a lot of sense, but you also do something else that I think is interesting. You've written a book, niching up, you've got a podcast, you have other things that you do, and, of course, just the company itself, but you put all of that together, and all of that not only has to help your brand, but it makes you more visible in the marketplace overall. Don't you think? Chris Dreyer  47:42 Yeah, it certainly does, and it is our flywheel, right? It's somebody that's on my podcast could be a potential quote in my book, and I have a personal injury lawyer marketing book, right? And there's quotes from the pod. I have now a quarterly magazine that goes out. We could cherry pick a couple episodes, you know, to include in the magazine. We have retreats that are quarterly. They're, they're in person that, because we have a community, they're easier to to fill. We have a yearly event for personal injury law firms called, you know, Pim con. So it's all this, this flywheel that kind of compounds over time due to the community aspect, Michael Hingson  48:25 but people obviously react well to it, because you continue to be successful. Chris Dreyer  48:32 Yeah, and I think the biggest thing for me is I am I am not the the expert. I am bringing on the experts in their field, the people that are eating their own dog food, so to speak, right? They're practicing what they preach. It is, I can orchestrate a great conversation because I know the space and can ask very specific questions based upon my knowledge. But I'm bringing on, you know, Dan Morgan's on the pod. I've had, let's see Morris Bart. You know, I've had frank Azar in Colorado. I've had the biggest of the big pi attorneys on sharing what works for them, which, which is very valuable, because it's not, you know, some, you know, a consultant or me or whoever, speaking about like, Oh, this is how you can grow a law firm. It's no this is the owner of a law firm explaining how he or she is growing their law firm right, Michael Hingson  49:31 and providing that advice for other people, which also helps you gain trust, which is pretty cool. What's the best way for an attorney who wants to stand out to truly build authority in the market? Chris Dreyer  49:50 Well, if you're if you're b Look, okay, so there's a couple types of firms. If you're a trial attorney and you want to get peer referrals, I would say. See, I would say start a podcast would be one of the best ways, you know, interview your peer, interview other attorneys around the country, talk shop, you know, speak at C les. You know, do the those types of aspects it, you know, a podcast. I'm not saying it's not good for B to C, but it's, it has to be a different type of podcast. So I think, I think B to B, if you're a litigation attorney, a podcast would be great if it's B to C. That's, that's tricky. I think I think probably social media in some capacity, but really it's just sharing your knowledge on a platform and being consistent. Michael Hingson  50:51 Yeah, consistency counts for a lot, and it is something you can you can show is being relevant in almost any kind of business. I mean, look at McDonald's. One thing you can generally tell about McDonald's is that their quarter pounder is going to taste the same everywhere, and it's going to be the same and, and, and companies and people can learn a lot by seeing a company that truly develops that level of trust, 51:24 yeah, couldn't agree more. Michael Hingson  51:26 And that's pretty important to do, to be able to get someone who is going to earn that trust by vigorously working to earn that trust. And so there's something to be said for that, needless to say, so you've built a very large company. What would you say are some of the pivotal moments that sort of helped shape your trajectory? I know you've talked about some things, but what, what kind of really, are the things that stand out that really helped you create all of that? Chris Dreyer  52:00 I think in the beginning, I did a lot of free work, and had to prove my work, prove my abilities. I think so many people just want to charge a lot out of the gate. And I think there's when you do things for people, they're more willing to reciprocate. And it from an application perspective, it makes you better. So I did a lot of free work early, a ton of free work. I took a lot of jobs or contracts that maybe not, maybe for certain, that I wouldn't take today, that were just not perfect, but like they were my opportunities that I didn't, you know, let them pass by. I think hiring the right people, having super high standards is incredibly important, people that share your values. In the beginning, I used to, every time I heard a speech or taught speech speaker talk about culture values, I used to kind of roll my eyes and say I just didn't get to get to work, right? But now I know it's more important than ever that they share my values, right? Because they're important to me, and that's how you move forward. And I think the other one, if I had to say, the bigger I get, the more important good data, is to make decisions like, if I just don't have good data, it's very difficult. I'm just guessing and and the better the data, the better decisions well. Michael Hingson  53:32 So the the other thing that comes to mind when you talked about doing a lot of free work and jobs that you wouldn't necessarily take today, I don't know how much it really entered into your mindset, but think of all the knowledge you gathered by doing that that you might not have ever gotten. Yeah. Chris Dreyer  53:49 I mean, that's true, and a lot of other people wouldn't have done those jobs, so that's kind of some unique perspectives. Michael Hingson  53:56 Yeah, I when I hired sales people, one of the first things I always told them was, you're coming into this be a student for at least the first year. Don't hesitate to ask questions of your customers, because they're not if you gain their trust at all. They're not in it to see you fail. They want you to succeed, but they want to be able to trust you. And so there's a lot to be said for being a student, asking questions and learning from that. I agree. I agree, which makes a lot of sense. What's the biggest misconception that lawyers typically have about marketing? Chris Dreyer  54:33 They underestimate how many dollars and what it takes for someone to actually be memorable or build a brand. I talked to, I heard Alex hermosi talking recently about, you know, no one really knew who Jennifer Lawrence was before the mockingbird movie, and they spent $50 million on advertising for that movie. And then, oh, suddenly, everyone knows who she is. But it took $50 million To do so. I think a lot of times people think they oversaturate a channel when they haven't even scratched the possibilities or the capabilities of a particular channel. Michael Hingson  55:10 How do you help lawyers break through that misconception? I agree with what you're saying. I hear it a lot, in so many ways, but how do you break through that and get them to understand the value. Chris Dreyer  55:22 It's a dance, yeah, you know, I try to get them to look at the blended cost to acquire a case, as opposed to, you know, the CAC to LTV ratio, versus trying to pinpoint each individual channel and but it is try to try to solve with data and proof over, you know, guesses, but or promises, but it is always a song and dance. Michael Hingson  55:52 The data and proof is out there. If people can learn to look for it, it's, it's, the reality is, mostly it's not a guess, but you have to know where to look or learn how to find the data to be able to get the answers that you need to demonstrate that marketing is just as valuable as anything else. I mean, there's so many strong lessons about marketing. We talked about Morgan and Morgan, but think about it, he's out there doing TV commercials all the time, and I'm sure that that's helping his company. He and Ultima continuing to to grow, and now they got the boys all in it. And the reality is they've demonstrated that they understand something about what marketing is all about. I remember back a long time ago when it was taboo for lawyers to even advertise. And then a couple of companies out here started to do it. And finally, people realized there's a lot of value in marketing. Chris Dreyer  56:50 Absolutely. And Michael, I should have said this in advance. I've got a I got a hard stop, I got a I got a hat, I got a client call here in two minutes. Michael Hingson  56:59 Well, then let me just ask, is there anything else that you want to add? Or how can people reach out to you if they'd like to do that? Chris Dreyer  57:06 Well, first of all, I really enjoyed our conversation, so thank you for having me. Yeah, you know, for anybody that has a question or wants to connect with me, the best way to get in touch with me is by email. I'm an inbox zero guy. It's Chris, C, H, R, i s@rankings.io I'm most active on LinkedIn. You'll just do a search for Chris Dreyer, and you'll find me cool. Michael Hingson  57:29 Well, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for tuning in today, wherever you are, I'd love to hear from you. Love your thoughts on the podcast. Give us an email at Michael h i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, also, you can listen to any of our podcasts. They're all available. And you can find us at Michael hingson.com/podcast and you can see and hear all the episodes that you want from there. Please give us a five star review and great rating wherever you're listening and watching us, we value it a lot. And if you know anyone who you think might be able to be a good guest, love to hear from you. Chris, you as well. If you know anybody else who you think ought to be a guest, I'd love to definitely get your help to bring them on, because we're looking for all the people who want to come on and show that we're all more unstoppable than we think. But again, I want to just thank you for being here today. Chris Dreyer  58:20 Thank you, Michael. I really enjoyed it. Michael Hingson  58:26 Thank you for being here with me on unstoppable mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about if you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others. I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook, blinded by fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening, keep learning, keep questioning and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset you.

On today's newscast: The town of Carbondale wants to make it easier for people to build new housing on their own, existing properties; despite some disagreement, a majority of the Aspen-Pitkin County Housing Authority gave initial approval to ban registered sex offenders from the employee-housing program; and the unprecedented heat that's hitting our region this week brings an unexpected risk to mental health for some people. Tune in for these stories and more.

Our ‘Women Leading with Heart' series for Women's History Month continues with Dr. Khalilah Doss, the Vice President for Student Affairs and Strategic Enrollment Management at California State University, Fullerton. This first-generation Jamaican track scholar became an educational trailblazer who simply wanted to “be who I needed.” Dr. Doss shares why seeing the humanity in students—as someone's children—guides every decision she makes. She models heart-led leadership and relationship-building with a deep commitment to ensuring students never feel like a bother—only seen, valued, and supported. Find out why asking for help, admitting “I don't know,” and understanding that seeking support is actually a strength, not a weakness. ⁠ Dr. Doss completed her Ph.D. in Educational Administration and Higher Education at Southern Illinois University, Carbondale, and she received her Bachelor of Business Administration in Economics, Finance and Marketing at McKendree University. She has been in the field of student affairs for over 20 years and most recently served as the Vice President for Student Affairs and Dean of Students at Middle Tennessee State University (MTSU). In this capacity, Dr. Doss had oversight for a portfolio of units that are germane to the successful transition, support, and engagement of the students who call MTSU home. Throughout her career, Dr. Doss has been successful in developing and executing innovative programs that are rooted in diversity and inclusion; and has been known to foster a culture of evidence-based decision making, that is tied to community and campus wide partnerships on the campuses she has served. To learn more about Dr. Doss, connect with her via email at kdoss@fullerton.edu or visit her at Fullerton.edu.

https://takingthelandpodcast.comWhy do some churches grow while others struggle for years?In this powerful message from the Mid-West Bible Conference in Carbondale, Illinois, Pastor Willis Gordon confronts a hard truth about leadership, discipleship, and spiritual development.PREMIUM SUBSCRIPTION for WORLD EVANGELISM:• NO ADS, Early releases, Full-Length Testimony Tuesdays⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠• Subscribe for only $3/month on Supercast⁠: https://taking-the-land.supercast.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠• Subscribe for only $3.99/month on Spotify⁠: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/taking-the-land/subscribe• ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe for only $4.99/month on Apple Podcasts⁠: https://apple.co/4owjo5ZThe Bible says we carry the treasure of God in earthen vessels. The problem is not the treasure. The problem is the vessel.Using stories from John Wooden, Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, and personal moments with Pastor Wayman Mitchell, this sermon exposes one of the greatest dangers in ministry: believing we are already “good.”If we do not allow God to build the man, we will never build the work.Key themes in this sermon:• Why the greatest works are built by developed men• The danger of giftedness without character• Why spiritual growth cannot be outsourced to sermons or YouTube• The three areas that reveal spiritual maturity• The leadership principle behind “small man, small church”This message is a direct challenge to every believer, leader, and disciple.Because the cost of building men may be high… but the cost of failing to do so is far higher.0:00 The Motto: The Cost of Failing to Build MenShow NotesALL PROCEEDS GO TO WORLD EVANGELISMLocate a CFM Church near you: https://cfmmap.orgWe need five-star reviews! Tell the world what you think about this podcast at:• Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://apple.co/3vy1s5b• Podchaser: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/taking-the-land-cfm-sermon-pod-43369v

Send a textA railroad with no rails, no spikes, and barely any money somehow convinces a frontier to bet on its future. We tell the origin story of the Atchison, Topeka, and Santa Fe as Cyrus Kurtz Holliday tries to turn Kansas from a bruised battleground into a connected, growing state, using a charter, political leverage, and sheer persistence to keep the dream alive through drought and the Civil War. If you love railroad history, Kansas history, and the real mechanics behind westward expansion, this is the moment where the myth meets the math. We walk through what a “paper railroad” really means, why early pledges can't touch the true cost of building track, and how one signature in Washington changes the entire game. Lincoln's 1863 land grant turns prairie into capital and creates a relentless paradox: the rails must be laid to make the land valuable, but the land must be sold to pay for the rails, all under a hard deadline of March 3, 1873. The stakes are financial, political, and moral, because every mile raises the question of who pays and who loses. From the first sod turned in Topeka to the practical choice to chase coal at Carbondale, we follow the Santa Fe's early strategy and its push toward the cattle trade, challenging rival monopolies by reaching closer to the Chisholm Trail. We also spotlight the people who do the backbreaking work, from Irish immigrants and Civil War veterans to Mexican railroad laborers, and we don't look away from the cost to Native lands as the iron trail cuts west. Subscribe, share the show with a friend who loves the Old West, and leave a review with the detail that hit you hardest.Support the showIf you'd like to buy one or more of our fully illustrated dime novel publications, you can click the link I've included.

Self-proclaimed “protest poet” Komal Bukhari tells Jared what this title means to her and how, in her view, speaking truth to power is not an act of bravery—it's a way of being. They also discuss Komal's process, how she approaches the heavy themes of her work with patience to avoid burnout, and how MFA deadlines complicate this process. She also tells Jared about teaching creative writing versus English composition, how the MFA taught her it takes a hundred hours to finish a poem, and what it's like moving from Pakistan to the small town of Carbondale, Illinois. Komal Bukhari is a Pakistani poet and MFA candidate in creative writing at Southern Illinois University. Her work explores theology, dissent, and the personal cost of defying patriarchal and religious boundaries. She writes about honor killing, blasphemy laws, and the politics of faith in Pakistan, often examining her own struggle to seek freedom within and beyond these systems. Her poem “Iconoclast” was featured by BBC Urdu, where she was named an emerging poet, and her poems have appeared in Pakistani anthologies. MFA Writers is hosted by Jared McCormack and produced by Jared McCormack, Hanamori Skoblow, and Brié Goumaz. New episodes are released every two weeks. You can find more MFA Writers at ⁠MFAwriters.com⁠.BE PART OF THE SHOWDonate to the show at⁠ Buy Me a Coffee⁠.Leave a rating and review on ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠.Submit an episode request. If there's a program you'd like to learn more about, contact us and we'll do our very best to find a guest who can speak to their experience.Apply to be a guest on the show by filling out ⁠our application⁠.STAY CONNECTEDTwitter: ⁠@MFAwriterspod⁠Instagram: ⁠@MFAwriterspodcast⁠Facebook: ⁠MFA Writers⁠Email: ⁠mfawriterspodcast@gmail.com

WhoSusan Cross, Vice President of Operations at Aspen Skiing Company (and former Mountain Manager of Snowmass)Recorded onNovember 14, 2025 - which was well before I traveled to Snowmass and chased Cross around a bit in the pow. There she is tiny in the distance:About Aspen Skiing CompanyAspen Skiing Company (Skico) is part of something called Aspen One. Don't ask me what that is because even though they rolled it out two years ago I still have no idea what they're talking about. All I know or care about is that they own four ski areas and here is what I know about them:Don't be fooled by the scale of the map above - at 3,342 acres, Snowmass is larger than Aspen Mountain, Buttermilk, and Aspen Highlands combined. The monster 4,400-foot vert means these lifts are massively shrunken to fit the map - Snowmass operates three of the 10 longest chairlifts in America, and seven chairlifts over one mile long:You can't ski or ride a lift between the four mountains, but free shuttles connect them all. Aspen Mountain, Highlands, and Buttermilk are all bunched together near town, and Snowmass is a short drive (15 to 20 minutes if traffic is clear and dependent upon which base area you want to hit):Why I interviewed herAmerican ski areas will often re-use chairlifts or snowcats that other operators have outgrown. Aspen Mountain re-used a whole town.In 1879, Aspen the city didn't exist, and by 1890 more than 5,000 people lived there. They came for silver, not snow. In less than a decade they laid out the Victorian street grid of brick and wood-framed buildings using hand tools and horses, with the Roaring Fork River as their supply road.Aspen's population collapsed in the economic depressions of the 1890s and didn't rebound to 5,000 for 100 years. The 1940 Census counted 777 residents. That was 16 years before the first chairlift rose up Ajax, a perfect ski mountain above an intact but semi-abandoned town made pointless by history.It was an amazing coincidence, really. Americans would never build a ski town on purpose. That's where the parking lots go. But hey it all worked out: Aspen evolved into a ski town that offset its European walk-to-the-chairlifts sensibility with a hard-coded American refusal to expand the historic street grid in favor of protectionism and mansion-building. The contemporary result is one of the world's most expensive real estate markets cosplaying as a quaint ski town, a lively and walkable mixed-use community of the sort that we idealize but refuse to build more of. Aspen's population is now around 7,000, most of whom live there by benefit of longevity, subsidy, inheritance, or extreme wealth. The city's median household income is just over $50,000. The median home price is $9.5 million. Anyone clinging to the illusion that Aspen is an actual ski town should consider that it took 25 years to approve and build the Hero's chairlift. Imagine what the fellows who built this whole city in half a decade without the benefit of electricity or cement trucks or paved roads would make of that.The illusory city, however, is a dynamic separate from the skiing. Aspen, despite its somewhat dated lift fleet, remains one of America's best small ski mountains. But it is small, and, with no green terrain and barely any blues, the ski area lacks the substance and scale to draw tourists west of Summit County and Vail.Sister mountain Snowmass does that. And while Snowmass did not benefit from an already-built town at its base, it did benefit from not having one, in that the mountain could evolve with a purpose and speed that Ajax, boxed in by geography and politics, never could. Snowmass has built 13 new aerial lifts this century, including the two-station, mountain-redefining Elk Camp Gondola; the Village Express six-pack, which is the fourth-longest chairlift in America; and, in just the past two years, a considerably lengthened Coney high-speed quad and a new six-pack to replace the Elk Camp chairlift.I've focused on Aspen's story a bit over the years (including this 2021 podcast with former Skico CEO Mike Kaplan), but probably not enough. The four Aspen mountains are some of the most important in American skiing, even if visitation doesn't quite match their status as skiing word-association champion among non-skiers (more on that below). Aspen, a leader not just in skiing but in housing, the environment, and culture, carries narrative heft, and the company's status as favored property of Alterra part-owner Henry Crown hints at deeper influence than Skico likely takes credit for. Aspen, like Big Sky and Deer Valley and Sun Valley, is rapidly emerging as one of the new titans of American skiing, unleashing a modernization drive that should lead, as Cross says in our conversation, to an average of at least one new lift per year across the portfolio. Snowmass' 2023 U.S. Forest Service masterplan envisions a fully modern mountain with snowmaking to the summit. Necessary and exciting as that all is, forthcoming updates to the dated masterplans at Aspen Highlands (2013) and Buttermilk (2008), could, Skico officials tell me, offer a complete rethinking of what Aspen-Snowmass is and how the ski areas orbit one another as a unit.And they do need to rethink the whole package. Challenging Skico's pre-eminence in the Circle of American Ski Gods are many obstacles, including but not limited to: an address that's just a bit remote for Denver to bother with or tourists to comprehend; a rinky-dink airport that can't land a paper plane; an only-come-if-you-have-nine-houses rap on the affordability matrix; a toxic combination of one of America's most expensive season passes and most expensive walk-up lift tickets; and national pass partners who do a poor job making it clear that Aspen is not one ski area but four.A lot to overcome, but I think they'll figure it out. The skiing is too good not to. What we talked about“I thought I had found Heaven” upon arrival in Aspen; Aspen in the 1990s; $200 a month to live in Carbondale; “as soon as you go up on the lifts, the mountain hasn't changed”; when Skico purchased formerly independent Aspen Highlands; Highlands pre-detachable lifts; four ski areas working (and not), as one ski resort; why there is “minimal sharing” of employees between the four mountains; why “two winter seasons, and then I was going back to Boston” didn't quite work out; why “total guilt sets in” if Cross misses a day of skiing and how she “deliberately” makes “at least a couple of runs” happen every day of the winter and encourages everyone else to do the same; Long Shot in the morning; the four pods of Snowmass; why tourists tend to lock onto one section of the mountain; “a lot of people don't realize their lift ticket is good for the four mountains”; “there's plenty of room to spread out and have a blast” even at busy Snowmass; defining the four mountains without typecasting them; no seriously there are no green runs on Aspen Mountain; the new Elk Camp six-pack; why Elk Camp doesn't terminate at the top of Burnt Mountain; why Elk Camp doesn't have the fancy carriers that came with 2024's new Coney Express lift; why Snowmass opted not to add bubbles to its six-packs; how Coney Express changed how skiers use Snowmass; why Coney is a quad rather than a six; why skiers can't unload at the Coney Express mid-station (and couldn't load last season); how Coney ended up with a mid-station and two bends along the liftline; the hazards of bending chairlifts and lessons learned from Alta's Supreme debacle; why Snowmass replaced the Cirque Poma with a T-bar (and not a chairlift); which mountain purchased the old Poma; Aspen's history of selling lifts and how the old Elk Camp wound up at Powderhorn ski area; where Skico had considered moving the Elk Camp quad; “we want everybody to stay in business”; why Snowmass didn't sell or relocate the Coney Glade lift; prioritizing future chairlift upgrades; the debate over whether to replace Elk Camp or Alpine Springs first, and why Elk Camp won; “what we're trying to do is at least one lift a year across the four mountains”; a photobomb from my cat; why the relatively new Village Express lift is a replacement candidate and where that lift could move; why we're unlikely to see the proposed Burnt Mountain chairlift anytime soon; and the new megalift that could rise on Aspen Mountain this summer.What I got wrong* I said that Breck had “T-bars serving their high peaks,” which is incorrect. In fact, Breck runs chairlifts close to the summits of Peak 8 (Imperial Superchair, the highest chairlift in North America), and Peak 6 (Kensho Superchair). I was thinking, however, of the Horseshoe T-Bar, an incredible high-alpine machine that I rode recently (it lands below Imperial Superchair on Peak 8).* I said that Maverick Mountain, Montana, was running a “1960-something” Riblet double. The lift dates to 1969, and is slated for replacement by Aspen Mountain's old Gent's Ridge fixed-grip quad, which Skico removed in 2024.* I referred to the Sheer Bliss chairlift as “Super Bliss,” which I think was fallout from over-exposure to Breck, where 12 of the chairlifts are named [SOMETHING] Superchair or some similar name.Why you should ski Aspen-SnowmassWhy do we ski Colorado? In some ways, it's a dumb question. We ski Colorado because everyone skis Colorado: the state's resorts account for 20 to 25 percent of annual U.S. skier visits, inbounds skiable acreage, and detachable chairlifts. Colorado is so synonymous with skiing that the state basically is skiing from the point of view of the outside world, especially to non-skiers who, challenged to name a ski resort, would probably come up with Vail or Aspen.But among well-traveled skiers, Colorado is Taylor Swift. Talented, yes, but a bit too obvious and sell-your-kidneys expensive. There's a lot more music out there: Utah gets more snow, Idaho and Montana have fewer people, B.C.'s Powder Highway has both of those things. Europe is cheaper (well, everywhere is cheaper). Colorado is only home to 26 public, lift-served ski areas, and only two of the 10 largest in America. Only seven Colorado ski areas rank among the nation's 50 snowiest by average annual snowfall. Getting there is a hassle. That awful airport. That stupid road. So many Texans. So many New Yorkers. Alternate, Man!But we all go anyway. And here's why: Colorado ski areas claim 14 of the 20 highest base areas in North America, and 16 of the 20 highest summits. What that means is that, unlike in Tahoe or Park City or Idaho, it never rains. Temperatures rarely top freezing. That means the snow that falls stays, and stays nice. Even in a mediocre Rocky Mountain winter – like this one – Colorado is able to deliver a consistent and predictable trail footprint in a way that no other U.S. ski state can match. Add in an abundance of approachable, intermediate-oriented ski terrain, and it's clear why America's two largest ski area operators center their multi-mountain pass empires in Colorado.Which brings us back to the thing most skiers hate the most about Colorado skiing: other skiers. There are just so many of them. And they all planned the same vacation. For the same time.But there is a back door. Around half of Colorado's 12 to 14 million annual skier visits occur at just five ski areas: Vail Mountain, Breck, Keystone, Copper, and Steamboat – often but not always strictly in that order. Next comes Winter Park, then Beaver Creek. And all the way down at number eight for Colorado annual skier visits is Snowmass.Snowmass' 771,259 skier visits is still a lot of skier visits. But consider some additional stats: Snowmass is the third-largest ski area in Colorado and the 11th-largest in America. From a skier visits-to-skiable-acreage ratio, it comes in way below the state's other 2,000-plus-acre ski areas (save Telluride, which is even more remote than Aspen):Why is that? The map explains it: Snowmass, and Aspen in general, lost the I-70 sweepstakes. They're too far west, too far off the interstate (so is Steamboat, but at least they have a real airport).Snowmass is worth the extra drive time. I-70 through Glenwood Canyon is slow-going but gorgeous, and the 40 miles of Colorado 82 after the interstate turnoff barely qualify as mountain driving – four lanes most of the way, no tight turns, some congestion but only if you're arriving in the morning. A roundabout or two and there you are at Snowmass.And here's what that extra two hours of driving gets you: all the benefits of Colorado skiing absent most of its drawbacks. Goldilocks Mountain. Here you'll find the fourth-highest lift-served summit in American skiing, the second-tallest vertical drop, and a dizzying, dazzling modern lift fleet spinning 20 lifts, including 9 detachables and a gondola. You'll find glorious ever-cruisers, tree-dotted and infinite; long bumpers twisting off High Alpine; comically approachable green zones at the village and mid-mountain. If Campground double is open, you can sample Colorado skiing circa 1975, alone in the big empty lapping the long, slow lift. And since the Brobots hate Snowmass, the high-altitude Hanging Valley and Cirque Headwall expert zones are always empty.That's one of four mountains. Towering, no-greens-for-real Aspen Mountain and Aspen Highlands are as rugged and wicked as anything a Colorado chairlift can drop you onto. And Buttermilk is just delightful – 2,000 vertical feet of no-stress-with-the-9-year-old, with fast lifts back to the top all day long.Podcast NotesOn Sugarbush and Mad River GlenI always like to make this point for western partisans: there is eastern skiing that stacks up well against the average western ski experience. Most of it is in northern Vermont, and two of the best, terrain-wise, are Alterra-owned Sugarbush - home of the longest chairlift in the world - and co-op-owned Mad River Glen, which still spins the only single chair in the lower 48. Here's Sugarbush:Mad River Glen is right next door. Just keep going looker's right off Mt. Ellen:On pre-Skico HighlandsWhoa that's a lot of lifts. And they're almost all doubles and Pomas.On Joe HessionHession is founder and CEO of Snow Partners, which owns Mountain Creek ski area, the Big Snow indoor ski ramp in New Jersey, Snow Cloud resort-management software, the Snow Triple Play Pass, and the Terrain Based Learning concept that you see in beginner areas all over America. He's been on the pod a few times, and he's a huge fan of Susan's.On Timberline's wonky vertMeasuring vertical drop is a somewhat hazardous game. Potential asterisks include the clandestine inclusion of hike-up terrain (Aspen Highlands), ski-down terrain with no return lift access (Sunlight), or both (Arapahoe Basin). Generally, I refer to lift-served vert, meaning what you can ski down and ride back up without walking. But even that gets tricky, as in the case of Timberline Lodge, Oregon, home to the tallest vertical drop in American lift-served skiing. We have to get mighty creative with the definition of “lift” however, since Timberline includes a 557-vertical-foot lift-served gap between the top of the Summit chairlift (4,290 feet) and the bottom of the Jeff Flood high-speed quad (4,847 feet). This is the result of two historically separate ski areas combining in 2018:Timberline's masterplan calls for a gondola from the base of Summit up to the top of Jeff Flood:For now, skiers can ski all the way down, but have to ride back up to Timberline from the Summit base via shuttle. To further complicate the calculus here, the hyper-exposed Palmer high-speed summit quad rarely runs in winter, acting mostly as a summer workhorse for camp kids. When Palmer's not running, a snowcat will sometimes shuttle skiers close to the unload point.Anyway, that's the fine print annotating our biggest lift-served vertical drop list:On Big Sky's new lifts and pod-stickingSnowmass' recent lift upgrade splurges are impressive, but Big Sky has built an incredible 12 aerial lifts in the past decade, 11 of them brand-new. These are some of the most sophisticated lifts in the world and include two six-packs, two eight-packs, a tram, and two gondolas. This reverse chronology of Big Sky's active lifts doubles as a neat history of the mountain's evolution from striver importing other resorts' leftovers to one of the top ski areas on the continent:Big Sky still has some older chairs spinning along its margins, but plenty of tourists spend their entire vacation just lapping the out-of-base super lifts (according to on-the-ground staff). The only peer Big Sky has in the recent American lift upgrade game is Deer Valley, which has erected nearly a dozen aerial lifts in just the past two years to feed its mega-expansion.On the Ikon Pass site being confusing as to mountain accessI just find the classification of four separate and distinct ski areas as one “destination” confusing, especially for skiers who aren't familiar with the place:On the new Elk Camp chairliftThe upside of taking nine years to distribute this podcast is that I was able to go ride Snowmass' gorgeous new Elk Camp sixer:On my Superstar lift discussion with KillingtonOn Aspen's history of selling liftsI somewhat overstated Aspen's history of selling lifts to smaller mountains. It seemed like a lot, though these are the only ones I can find records of:However, given Skico's enormous number of retired Riblets (28, all but two of which were doubles), and the durability and ubiquity of these machines, I suspect that pieces – and perhaps wholes – of Aspen's retired chairlifts are scattered in boneyards across the West.On the small number of relocated detachable lifts Given that the world's first modern detachable chairlift debuted at Breckenridge 45 years ago, it's astonishing how few have been relocated. Only 19 U.S. detaches that started life within the U.S. are now operating elsewhere in the country, and only nine moved to a different ski area:On Powderhorn's West End chairThe number of relocated detachables is set to increase to 10 next year, when Powderhorn, Colorado repurposes Snowmass' old Elk Camp quad to replace this amazing, 7,000-foot-long double chair, a 1972 Heron-Poma machine:Elk Camp is already sitting in a pile beside the load station (Powderhorn officials tell me the carriers are also onsite, but elsewhere):Powderhorn's existing high-speed quad, the Flat Top Flyer, also came used, from Marble Mountain in Canada.On Snowmass' masterplan and the proposed Burnt Mountain liftSnowmass' most recent U.S. Forest Service masterplan, released in 2022, shows the approximate location of a future hypothetical Burnt Mountain chairlift (the left-most red dotted line below):Unfortunately, Cross and the rest of Skico's leadership seem fairly unenthusiastic about actually building this lift. Right now, skiers can hike from the top of Elk Camp chair to access this terrain.On Aspen's Nell-Bell ProposalOh man how freaking cool would it be to ride one chairlift from Aspen's base to the top of Bell? Cross and I discuss Aspen Mountain's Forest Service application to do exactly that, with a machine along roughly this line parallel to the gondola:The new detachable would replace two rarely-used chairs: the Nell fixed-grip quad and the Bell Mountain double chair, which, incredibly, dates to 1957 (with heavy modifications in the 1980s), making it the fourth-oldest standing chairlift in the nation (after Mt. Spokane's 1956 Vista Cruiser Riblet, Mad River Glen's 1946 American Steel & Wire single chair, and Boyne Mountain's Hemlock Riblet double, moved to Michigan in 1948 after starting life circa 1936 as America's first chairlift – a single standing at Sun Valley).I lucked out with a gondola wind hold when I was in Aspen a few weeks back, meaning Nell was spinning:Sadly, Bell was idle, but I skied the liftline and loaded up on photos:On the original Lift 1 at AspenBehold Lift 1 on Aspen Mountain, a 1946 American Steel & Wire single chair that rose 2,574 vertical feet along an 8,480-foot line in something like 35 or 40 minutes. Details on this lift's origin story and history vary, but commenters on Lift Blog suggest that towers from this lift ended up as part of Sunlight's Segundo double following its removal from Ajax in 1971. That Franken-lift, which also contained parts from Aspen's Lift 3 – which dated to 1954 and may have been a Poma or American Steel & Wire machine, but lived its 52-year Sunlight tenure as a Riblet – came down last summer to make way for a new-used triple – A-Basin's old Lenawee chair.On the Hero's expansionAt just 826 acres, Aspen Mountain is the most famous small ski area in the West. The reason, in part, for this notoriety: a quirky, lively treasure chest of a ski area that rockets straight up, hiding odd little terrain pockets in its fingers and folds. The 153-acre Hero's terrain, a byzantine scramble of high-altitude tree skiing opened just two years ago, fits into this Rocky Mountain minefield like a thousand-dollar bill in a millionaire's wallet. An obscene boost to an already near-perfect ski mountain, so good it's hard to believe the ski area existed so long without it.Here's a mellow section of Hero's:And a less-mellow one (adding to the challenge, this terrain is at 11,000 feet):The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us. Get full access to The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast at www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Recently, Nadine Saylor has been creating a series of gas and oil cans featuring imagery of her local surroundings. These more "masculine" objects remind her of the things her grandfather had in his shed. In thinking about gender and how it relates to the objects with which we surround ourselves, she investigates what role gender plays in our world writ large. Assistant Professor of Glass and Sculpture at University of Nebraska, Kearney, Saylor is originally from Hershey, Pennsylvania. She received her BFA in Photography from the University of the Arts in Philadelphia and her MFA in Glass from Alfred University in upstate New York. Since then, she has taught at Bowling Green State University in Ohio, Harrisburg Area Community College in Pennsylvania, and at Southern Illinois University in Carbondale. In addition to teaching at the collegiate level, she has taught many workshops internationally including The Studio at the Corning Museum of Glass and Penland School of Craft in North Carolina. She has also given demonstrations nationally and lectured internationally. Saylor has exhibited in many exhibitions across the country including the Cafesjian Art Trust, in Shoreview, MN, Toyama's International Glass Exhibition 2024 in Japan and has shown at SOFA Chicago. She recently completed a commission of two works Carrie Oilcan and Copper Kettle Nebraska for the Federal Reserve Board Gallery to be on display in Washington, DC, and to compliment her works commemorating American industry that were purchased in 2024. Derivative of her childhood, Saylor's works are instilled with love of Americana and history along with an interest in the stories behind the objects, the places, and the lives they have touched.  For example, Saylor's series of pincushions began with the familiar Tomato and Strawberry forms. In researching the history of these objects, the artist learned the pincushion was placed on the mantle to ward off evil spirits. When tomatoes were out of season, women made them out of fabric and used them as voodoo dolls. "I enjoy these kinds of historical narratives and use them as a vantage point in my work," she says. Imagery tells a story on the surface of many Saylor works. For example, Foggy Morning in the Black Swamp is a replica of an antique coffee pot she found in an antique store. The imagery on the surface is inspired by the artist's bike rides on the old railroad trail bike path through the Black Swamp.  She states: "My surroundings continue to affect the imagery on my glass as I lived on a farm in Southern Illinois with an array of chickens, goats and horses. This nostalgic life took me back to traveling to my grandmother's house in the countryside of rural Pennsylvania. Not only does my current rural life in Nebraska play a part in my glasswork, but I am also interested in the memories sparked by certain objects and what roles they play in our lives."   

We're back in The Hallmark Cafe with two new Hallmark "Lovuary" movies. First, we take a subway to love with Kim Matula and Aaron O'Connell in, "The Way to You." We continue our journey with a field trip to Carbondale, Illinois to catch the solar eclipse with Sarah Drew and Matt Long in, "The Stars Between Us." Join us at the table where the subject is love by chance on this edition of The Hallmark Cafe!

It's Tuesday which means there's a new Hallmark movie to review! ABOUT THE STARS BETWEEN US Seven years ago, Kim made a connection with a stranger during an eclipse event. Now a fledgling news reporter, Kim returns to Illinois for this year's eclipse, unaware that their paths may cross again. AIR DATE & NETWORK FOR THE STARS BETWEEN US February 21, 2026 | Hallmark CAST & CREW OF THE STARS BETWEEN US Sarah Drew as Kim Matt Long as Malcolm BRAN'S MOVIE SYNOPSIS 7 years ago, we're in Carbondale, Illinois and it's eclipse time! Malcolm is on top of a hill with his telescope, totally nerding out. His girlfriend isn't nearly as pumped as he is and she heads down the hill to snag some Rocket Dogs. While she's gone, a woman named Kim shows up. She's drawn to his telescope. They start talking and bond over their love of space. Right before the eclipse happens, her boyfriend Blake calls her. He's finally arrived, so she scurries off to meet up with him. 7 years later, Kim is now working for a news station. The person who was gonna go back to Carbondale to cover the eclipse bails so she volunteers to take on the case. Who knows, maybe she'll bump into the hunk from 7 years ago. And wouldn't you know it, they're both actually there. But somehow they keep missing each other. At a masquerade party, they get to talking but obviously they're rocking masks. Her first news spot is rocky but goes kind of viral. She ends up getting the invite for her eclipse spot to go national! She's freaking out! Her camera person and Malcolm's best friend end up meeting and really hitting it off. You'd think that would mean that Malcolm and Kim would end up meeting. Nope. They sure don't. They end up going multiple days without realizing they're both there. It's the day of the big eclipse and they were able to secure this GIANT scientist to come and be interviewed. When he ends up getting lost, they go and snag Malcolm. Naturally, they don't chat at all until they come face to face live on air. The chemistry is NUTS! After they go off air, they promptly go and chat and kiss and miss the eclipse. Watch the show on Youtube - www.deckthehallmark.com/youtubeInterested in advertising on the show? Email bran@deckthehallmark.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Two-time Emmy and Three-time NAACP Image Award-winning television Executive Producer Rushion McDonald interviewed Troy Hudson. A deeply personal and insightful interview with former NBA player and author Troy “T-Hud” Hudson. Here's a breakdown of the key highlights and takeaways: