Podcasts about steamboats

Smaller than a steamship; boat in which the primary method of marine propulsion is steam power

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THE PAYOFF
MORE SAVAGE & STEAMBOAT! Randy Savage v Ricky Steamboat @ Wrestling Classic '85

THE PAYOFF

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 28, 2022 24:08


The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast
Podcast #107: Leitner-Poma of America President Daren Cole

The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 23, 2022 71:10


To support independent ski journalism, please consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on Nov. 23. It dropped for free subscribers on Nov. 26. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription.WhoDaren Cole, President of Leitner-Poma of AmericaRecorded onNovember 10, 2022About Leitner-Poma of AmericaHere's the website boilerplate:Leitner-Poma of America offers a complete line of cable transport systems, including surface lifts, chairlifts, gondolas, MiniMetro® urban transport, trams, inclined elevators, and industrial trams.And this, which makes me go cross-eyed:Leitner-Poma of America, Inc. is a North American subsidiary of Poma S.A., a corporation with headquarters in Voreppe, France and a sister company of Leitner AG, a corporation with headquarters in Sterzing, Italy. Leitner–Poma of America engineers, manufactures, installs and services all types of ropeway systems for the ski industry, amusement parks, and urban transport.Cole and I sort through all of this on the podcast. What you need to understand though is that Leitner-Poma is basically one half of the U.S. ski-lift industry. The company also owns Skytrac, which only builds fixed-grip lifts. The other half of the industry is Doppelmayr, though saying “half” is not exactly correct: Doppelmayr claims more market share than Leitner-Poma. Other companies also claim a handful of lift projects most years - MND is building Waterville Valley's new six-pack, for example, and Partek is building the new Sandy quad at Saddleback.Why I interviewed himThe Storm is built around a very specific ethos: that machines are good, and that we should allow them to transport us to mountaintops. I respect and admire Uphill Bro. If I lived in the mountains, perhaps I would be him. But I do not and I am not. I am a tourist. Always and everywhere. I want to arrive to an organized experience. Uphilling is too much work, too much gear, too much risk for my coddled city soul.And so I ride lifts, and I've very specifically focused this newsletter and podcast on the world of lift-served skiing. This is the disconnect between 99 percent of skiers and 99 percent of ski writers. The former live in cities and suburbs and ski Seven Springs three to eight days per year and take a weeklong trip to Park City in February. The latter live in ski towns and hunt the novel by trade, normalizing the fringe. And while I enjoy the occasional Assault Mission recap of the skin up Mount Tahoe Grizzly Ridge, I don't really care (though I do enjoy following - and highly recommend - the WFG on Twitter or simpleskiing.com).What I care about is The Machine: how is this sprawling, tangled world of lift-served skiing continuously morphing into the wintertime realms of the 21st century, in which a relatively unchanging number of ski areas must accommodate a megapass-driven increase in skiers armed with rectangular megaphones capable of instantly broadcasting #LiftFails to Planet Earth's 5 billion internet users? How will an industry still spinning a not-immaterial number of Borvig, Hall, Riblet, and Yan lifts that pre-date the invention of written language modernize without bankrupting the hundreds of family-owned ski areas that still dot the continent? How far can technology push these simple but essential machines, and how high can that technology push their pricetags? How far can ski areas tap them to suck skiers out of the base before they multiply, Midwest cityhill-style, like ants across the mountain and create something more dangerous than congested liftlines – congested, and perilous, trails?This podcast does not really answer any of those questions, though all are recurring themes within The Storm. Instead, it acts as a primer on what is essentially one half of the U.S. ski industry: what is Leitner-Poma (and how, for God's sake, do you pronounce it)? What do they build, and where and how? Why are ski areas building so many lifts all of a sudden, and why are those projects encountering so many and so varied delays, from labor shortages to supply chain knots to permitting issues to locals rocking their pitchfork-and-bag-of-rotten-tomatoes NIMBY starter kits to town meetings? Is all this construction sustainable, and can Leitner-Poma and their main competitor, Doppelmayr, adapt to this demand and streamline their processes to forestall future construction delays?Lift design, construction, and installation is a fascinating, complicated world tucked into - and a fundamental component of - the fascinating, complicated world of lift-served skiing. And it is evolving as fast as skiing itself. Here's a peek inside.What we talked aboutThe wild and unexpected travel routes of an old-school salesman for Purgatory-Durango ski resort; working for Vail Associates in the Arrowhead/pre-Summit County days; Wild West days at Crested Butte; the insane, rapid evolution of the U.S. lift industry; the days when you could order a lift in August and have it spinning by Christmas; how Covid changed the lift game; when you take over a giant company just before a global pandemic; U.S.A.!; the legacies Leitner and Poma, and why the companies merged in 2000; Grand Junction as old-school ski hub and why it's a great place for manufacturing; how the Leitner-Poma subsidiary-parent company relationship works between Europe and America; Direct Drive; U.S. America hates mass transit; “a chairlift or a gondola is essentially an electric vehicle”; what it will take to spur greater urban lift development in America; what Leitner-Poma of America (LPOA) builds in Grand Junction, and what's imported from Europe; why LPOA bought Skytrac; expansion time; why the fixed-grip lift persists in our era of bigger-faster-better; how long can America's antique lift fleet last?; what may finally push independent ski areas rocking ancient Halls and Riblets to upgrade; a record year for LPOA; the changing culture around chairlift permits; breaking down the delays in Jackson Hole's Thunder lift as a mirror for lift-installation delays around the country; why haul ropes aren't made in America, and whether they could be; “at the end of the day, I own those delays”; building a better supply chain; are two-year lift builds the future?; labor shortages and building a better place to work; examining the lifts that are on time and why; building the Palisades Tahoe Base-to-Base Gondola; the differences between building on an all-new liftline versus building a replacement lift; how LPOA, the ski area, and the ski area planner work together to decide which lifts to put where; the return of the high-speed quad; and designing a better 2023 lift-construction season.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewWe are witnessing one of the busiest lift-construction seasons in modern times: 66 new or relocated lifts are rising across North America, according to Lift Blog. Some monsters, too: new gondolas at Palisades Tahoe, Whistler, and Steamboat; eight-packs at Boyne Mountain and Sunday River; 13 high-speed six-packs. Here's an overview of the 25 (or 26, if you insist) lifts that Leitner-Poma of America and its subsidiary, fixed-grip specialists Skytrac, are building:Cole joined Leitner-Poma of America in 2014. The company built six lifts that year (Skytrac, then an independent company, built another six). Scaling up any business is challenging, but scaling up amidst a re-ordering of the global economy and geopolitical environment, and in the midst of a pandemic, is flipping the game to MAXIMUM CHALLENGE mode.The modern world is both miraculous and mysterious. Where does all this crap come from? An incomprehensible network of mines and foundries and factories and warehouses and tools and vehicles and fuel and laborers and engineers and designers transform the raw materials of planet Earth into medicine and chairs and soccer balls and televisions and Broncos and yard furniture and suitcases and Thule boxes and Hanukkah candles and plastic dinosaurs and Optimus Prime toys. And chairlifts. A book documenting that journey would be an atlas of modern life and this spinning ball it occupies. It would also expose the enormous risks and faults in this impossibly far-flung system, and how a haul rope spun out of a European factory can impact construction on a lift rising up a Wyoming mountainside.Questions I wish I'd askedCole said that LPOA had re-sourced all the materials it had been getting in China to U.S. suppliers. I should have followed up to get a clearer understanding of why the company pulled out of China, and which parts had been flowing from that country.What I got wrong* In our discussion of urban gondola networks and whether we could ever see one in the United States, I pointed to how well existing systems had worked in “South America, Central America, and Mexico.” While such networks exist throughout South America (in Colombia, Bolivia, and Venezuela), and Mexico, none yet exist in Central America, as far as I can tell. While such systems have been proposed for Panama and Honduras, the one that appears closest to approval is an 8.9-kilometer, 11-station network in Guatemala City that would be built by Doppelmayr.* I stated that only seven of New York's 51 ski areas ran high-speed chairlifts. The correct number is eight: Belleayre (1), Windham (4), Hunter (3), Gore (2), Whiteface (1), Holiday Valley (4), Bristol (2), and Holimont (1).* I pronounced the name of the company as “Lee-tner-Poma” several times throughout the interview. I actually butchered it so bad that I re-recorded Cole's introduction – during which I included the name four times – after we spoke. Sorry dudes.Podcast NotesCole, in discussing his time with what was then known as “Vail Associates,” referred to the “Arrowhead days.” This is a reference to what is now the Arrowhead section of Beaver Creek, but was for a short time in the 1980s and ‘90s a separate ski area. Here's the 1988 trailmap:The modern Beaver Creek retains some of the old trailnames on what tends to be a very empty part of the resort:Additional thoughts on urban gondolasIt took about four seconds from the invention of the chairlift for engineers to realize they could attach a little house to the overhead cable instead of a chair. Tada: the gondola. Let's go skiing.But a gondola, it turns out, is a pretty efficient means of transit just about anywhere. It just took the world a while to realize it. Since 2014, La Paz, the high-altitude (12,000 feet!) Bolivian capital city, has built a massive gondola network stringing together its far-flung districts:While Mi Teleférico – as the system is known – was not the world's first urban gondola system, it is the first to consist solely of cable cars – other systems complement trains or buses. It is also the longest and most extensive. And it is getting longer – at full buildout, the system could consist of 11 lines and 30 stations. The only thing more astonishing than the speed with which this network has materialized is how incredibly inexpensive it has been to build: gondolaproject.com puts the total cost of the 11-line network at around $1.4 billion. For comparison's sake, New York City's three-station expansion of the Q subway line, which opened in 2017, ran $4.5 billion.Gondolas are relatively cheap, efficient, environmentally friendly, and insanely easy to build compared to new roads or rails. Which of course means U.S. Americans are terrified of them. It's true that the nation, as a whole, is allergic to mass transit, preferring to tool around in 18-wheel-drive F-950s. Fighting anything new is the U.S. American way (where were these NIMBYs when we were punching interstate highways through city centers in the 1950s?). But generations raised in the backs of minivans seem especially horrified by gondolas. The hysteria around the proposed Little Cottonwoods gondola – which would substantially mitigate atrocious powder-day and weekend traffic on a road that probably never should have been built to begin with – is indicative of U.S. American reaction toward non-ski gondolas in general. Everywhere such systems – or even simple, two-station lines – are proposed, they meet instant and widespread resistance.There are practical reasons why the U.S. has not yet developed an urban gondola network: most of our cities are too sprawling to tie together with anything other than surface transportation (i.e. buses). La Paz, the Bolivian model city cited above, is hilly and tight, laced with narrow webs of centuries-old roads that would be difficult to widen. But there are places such systems would make sense, either as standalone networks or as complements to existing train-and-bus lines: Chicago, Portland (Oregon), New York City, many college towns. A forthcoming gondola connecting a Paris suburb to the city's metro, soaring over a “hellish carscape” of highways, demonstrates the potential here.Any such proposal in U.S. America, however, will have to overcome the reflexive opposition that will attend it. In Utah, Little Cottonwood gondola proponents are fighting a basket of idiotic arguments ranging from aesthetic concerns over the height of the towers (as though a car-choked paved road is not atrocious) to indignance over taxpayer funding for the machine (as though tax dollars don't build roads) to warped arguments that mass transit is somehow elitist (instead insisting that we all need personal vehicles equipped with $1,000 sets of winter tires). It's all a little pathetic. And that's for a simple, three-station line way up in the mountains. Just wait until some Portland resident launches a Save Our Cats campaign because a rider in a passing gondola car might glimpse Fluffy pissing in her litterbox.I'm cynical, but Cole, fortunately, is far more optimistic and diplomatic, suggesting that it will really only take one successful instance of a non-ski, non-tourist-attraction gondola for the notion to take hold in America. I hope he's right.The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 126/100 in 2022, and number 372 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane, which, given the Little Cottonwood take above, I fully expect). You can also email skiing@substack.com. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

The Best of The OG with Ovies & Giglio
Wrestling Legend Ricky Steamboat returns to the ring

The Best of The OG with Ovies & Giglio

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 22, 2022 43:04


Hall of Fame Wrestler Ricky 'The Dragon' Steamboat tells Joe Ovies why he is returning to the ring, his relationship with Dax Harwood and Cash Wheeler of FTR, how he helped CM Punk make it into the WWE, and more. Also, Ovies breaks down how Clemson and other colleges are pushing for NIL collectives to help student-athletes.

Wrestling Compadres Slamcast
Relatively Speaking : Wrestling's Fake Families

Wrestling Compadres Slamcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 22, 2022 74:05


The Palskis are talking all about wrestling's iconic families... that have no blood relation whatsoever. The Holly cousins, the Steamboats, The Giants, The Benjamins, The Burchills, the Hogans,  whatever the hell is going on with the Andersons and much more. It's Relatively Speaking : Wrestling's Fake Families! Become a Patreon Palski and support the show while getting access to the live chat, exclusive episodes, series, and the weekly pre-show! http://www.patreon.com/pwpalskis   Smark out with the boys on our official Discord https://discord.gg/gcRb48rkw3  Pro Wrestling Palskis is part of the Dragon Wagon Radio independent podcast network. Visit www.dragonwagonradio.com for more!

VOC Nation Radio Network
IN THE ROOM - Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat interview

VOC Nation Radio Network

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 16, 2022 40:53


Live, Tuesday nights at 9PM ET on vocnation.com, it's IN THE ROOM! ITR features topics introduced by the panel, your calls, PWI's Brady Hicks, and WCW's Maestro. This week: Brady and the crew are off. Check out this great Ricky Steamboat interview from 2018. Call in (914) 338-1885. Full Video Episode Available for only $3/mo at premium.vocnation.com! Subscribers also get commercial free audio and video of Wrestling with History featuring Bill Apter and Ken Resnick, In the Room featuring PWI's Brady Hicks and former WCW Star the Maestro, No BS with The Bull Manny Fernandez, and more! VOC Nation takes you behind the scenes of your favorite moments in pro wrestling history. Notable show hosts include legendary pro wrestling journalist Bill Apter, former WWE/TNA star Shelly Martinez, former WWE and AWA broadcaster Ken Resnick, former WCW performer The Maestro, former TNA Impact talent Wes Brisco, Pro Wrestling Illustrated's Brady Hicks, independent pro wrestling and Fireball Run star Sassy Stephie, and more! Since 2010, VOC Nation has brought listeners into the minds of the biggest stars in pro wrestling and entertainment. Subscribe to the podcasts for free on most major directories, and visit vocnation.com for live programming. Subscribe to premium - only $3/mo - for commercial full commercial free audio and video episodes. Exclusive access to 50 years of Bill Apter's interview archives is available for a nominal charge. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ski Moms Fun Podcast
Steamboat Family Fun Made Easy with Erica Frank of Ski Butler

Ski Moms Fun Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 11, 2022 35:28


In this episode Nicole and Sarah host Erica Frank, the GM of Ski Butlers in Steamboat, Colorado. Erica gives tons of tips and insights to plan the perfect family trip to Steamboat. Erica grew up in Utah, skiing at Brighton, Alta & Snowbird. She moved East for college still managed to find time on snow - she taught skiing at Shawnee Mountain and Camelback Mountain.  She tells us about her first time visiting Steamboat on a family trip and falling in love with the area and all the incredible snow. She knew she would make her way back there and has been living in Steamboat for the past 3 years now. Erica explains exactly what families can expect to find at Steamboat and how Ski Butler makes getting to the slopes fun and easy for families. Ski Butler is a premier ski rental delivery company that brings all the ski gear right to you in your condo or hotel. Imagine having a glass of wine in your condo while your kids try on boots - instead of sweating it out in the rental line. Ski Butlers rents skis, poles, snowboards, boots and even helmets and goggles.  Ski Butlers provides ongoing support throughout your stay, you can try different skis during your stay depending on your needs or even the snow conditions.  Then at the end of your trip, they pick up everything. We loved learning about Ski Butlers' partnership with Steamboat Sports where families can rent soft goods like ski jackets and snow pants. Erica even shares some of her favorite apres ski spots around town - like T Bar and Timber & Torch.Create your Ski Butlers Profile here: https://www.skibutlers.com/portal/momtrendsSuppor the Ski Moms: Order your Ski Moms Cookbook here. Find out more about Ski Butlers here: https://www.momtrends.com/ski/why-you-should-use-ski-butlers-for-your-ski-rentalsResources:Steamboat Website: https://www.steamboat.com/ Steamboat Sports Ski Clothes Rentals: https://www.steamboat.com/plan-your-trip/rentals/ski-and-snowboard/clothing-rental-adult T Bar http://www.tbarsteamboat.comTimber & Torch - https://www.steamboat.com/things-to-do/dining/timber-and-torchKeep up with the Latest from Ski Butlers:Instagram: https://instagram.com/skibutlersFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/skibutlers/Twitter: https://twitter.com/skibutlersYouTube: https://youtube.com/c/SkibutlersJoin the Ski Moms Fun Community! Follow us on Instagram @skimomsfunCheck out the Ski Moms Fun Store at www.skimomsfun.comContact us sarah@skimomsfun.com

Bad Dads Film Review
Lightyear & Steamboat WIllie

Bad Dads Film Review

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 11, 2022 77:09


Bad Dad Peter has recently spent some time with his children in the USA and having sampled the finest our cousins from the other side of the Atlantic have to offer, he thought he'd recognise the high watermark of American culture, the film offerings of the Disney company, for this week's show. Our top 5 Memorable Disney Moments features a broad spectrum of Walt's offerings. It would be easy to dismiss the latest Disney Pixar movie as being a shameless TOY STORY cash-in and just like any normal adult my enthusiasm for a Buzz Lightyear origin story was virtually non-existent, so when the reviews came in and decreed almost universally that LIGHTYEAR was mediocre my expectations were lower than a crypto bros credit score. When Space Ranger Buzz Lightyear (Chris Evans) accidentally maroons the 1200 strong crew of The Turnip on an uncharted planet, he will stop at nothing to save their lives, even if it costs him his own. Buzz learning that he cannot fix everything and that he has to be willing to accept help is a meaningful  character arc allowing the movie to discuss its themes of male vulnerability, what it means to inspire someone, how to respond to mistakes in life and wraps all that up in a plot which features an interesting use of real world physics like the Theory of Special Relativity. Enjoyed by all of our kids, this was a surprise hit. Whilst there is an extremely unpleasant Urban Dictionary definition pertaining to STEAMBOAT WILLIE, which involves parts of the male anatomy, cigarettes and locomotive impressions, it's the slightly less scatological 1928 animated debut of Mickey and Minnie Mouse we're chatting about this week. It's a Disney classic so of course it features brutal animal violence which we know you all enjoy.We love to hear from our listeners! By which I mean we tolerate it. Try us on twitter @dads_film, on Facebook Bad Dads Film Review, on email at baddadsjsy@gmail.com or on our website baddadsfilm.com. Until next time, we remain... Bad Dads

The North-South Connection
Seven Months of Danger #7: The Bobby Eaton Show

The North-South Connection

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 6, 2022 68:29


On this episode of Seven Months of Danger,  the crew go to the weekend of 12/14/91 for a heavy dose of Steve Austin and Bobby Eaton. They discuss how Austin and Eaton were positioned in the Alliance, an interesting TV Title contender, a hidden gem between Steamboat and Eaton match and, of course, the Freebirds. Don't be in danger of missing this great episode!

The Gravel Ride.  A cycling podcast
Matt Lieto - Protect our Winters

The Gravel Ride. A cycling podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 1, 2022 40:19


This week we sit down with Protect our Winters ambassador and gravel athlete, Matt Lieto to talk about the importance of voting in relation to protecting the environment we love to ride in. Protect our Winters    Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos:   Matt Lieto [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the show. I welcome Matt. Lieto from bend Oregon onto the show matzoh, former triathletes. We'll get into that a little bit. And a gravel racer been doing it out of bend for a number of years has been involved in organizing some of the great events up there in Oregon. But more importantly for today's show, Matt's been involved with protect our winters, a nonprofit organization founded by snowboarder Jeremy Jones back in 2007. But the basic premise that he was seeing the world that he calls home out there in the big mountains. Getting destroyed by climate change. He wasn't seeing the same kind of snowpack. He was observing change and decided to make some change. He decided that athletes outdoor enthusiasts of all kinds, we have a voice in the political process and he set about to create an organization to help passionate outdoor people, productive places, and lifestyle. They love. From climate change. We're sitting here in the first week in November next week's the midterm elections. There's still time to get out there and vote. Do your civic duty. I'm a little bit on a soap box with Matt during this conversation, but I think it's important. Head on over to protect your winters.org. You can find out everything you need to know about the voting process. In your local community, there's still time in many states to get registered and absolutely there's time to prepare your ballot and get it submitted for the midterm elections. Without said. Let's jump right into my conversation with Hey, Matt, welcome to the show. [00:01:59] Matt Lieto: Thanks, man. Appreciate you having me Excited. [00:02:01] Craig Dalton: I am looking forward to getting into gravel, your background, but I'm most excited to talk about p and we'll get into that later. [00:02:09] Matt Lieto: Yeah, it's, it's okay if you if you prioritize climate and the world in, in, in front of getting to know me, that's fine. I'll let it go. [00:02:16] Craig Dalton: Wow. Very modest ego. I like it. So Matt, we always start out just by getting a little bit of background about you, how you got into the sport, and how you got into gravel. We gotta talk a little bit about your, your, your skinny bike background and that arrow position you used to have, but not too much. I don't wanna scare the listeners off. [00:02:33] Matt Lieto: I can't ignore it. I know there's a, you know, no matter what the, the triathletes do and the time trialists do, they're always gonna have, they're gonna have their, their work cut out for 'em for sure. But the reason I've like always got along with Mount biker's, cyclists, and why I'm one myself as I don't mind making fun of myself. Self deprecation is my, my biggest strength slash weakness. So let's go [00:02:55] Craig Dalton: It's important. It's important that the regular listener will know that I have admitted to my Ironman triathlon past. I don't wear it like a badge, but I, I'm not afraid to say that I did that. [00:03:06] Matt Lieto: So you literally, like you don't have a tattoo or anything. [00:03:10] Craig Dalton: No, no, I would, if I could aim the camera down there, I would show you my calf. There's [00:03:15] Matt Lieto: don't move your, [00:03:16] Craig Dalton: down there, [00:03:17] Matt Lieto: I don't wanna see you. Move your canvas south, man. Keep it up. [00:03:21] Craig Dalton: So how did you, you're up in, you're up in Bend these days. Is that where you kind of found the bike and found triathlon originally? [00:03:28] Matt Lieto: No, actually I had started doing try when I lived in Northern California. So like, 98 maybe. And kind of the cheesy story is my brother actually was a, a great professional triathlete, was second at Kona and another world championships a couple times. And I watched him race a race in Hawaii and at the time I was like 260 pounds. And I was like, Wow, these guys are, have more fun than me. And Losts a bunch of weight. Went home and started training for triathlon, trying to get it across the finish line on one of those things. And turned out I. Decent at it and was training with my brother, had a good guide and you know, just kind of kept plugging away. Became a professional triathlete after maybe three years of that. And yeah, kind of just enjoyed that experience. And I, I'm telling you, off air, like the. If I would've started younger and if I had the better pain tolerance I probably would've tried to be a cyclist. Cause that was kind of my, my strength and what I loved doing. But turns out I'm kind of mediocre at three sports. So triathlon worked for me. [00:04:28] Craig Dalton: Nice. What distances were you running and racing in? Triathlon. [00:04:31] Matt Lieto: I did, I've done 'em all. Like I did the [00:04:34] Craig Dalton: Okay. [00:04:34] Matt Lieto: Olympic distance did Xera cuz again, I, I just enjoy riding all kinds of kinds of bikes. So I went to National World champs a couple times for Xera. I did half Ironman was probably my strength in triathlon, just because you could, like, as a cyclist you could Ironman at least then, or for me, was. What watts can you hold for the whole thing and not crack where the half distance is, Oh, I'm faster than you and I'm gonna try to rip your legs off. Like that to me was fun cuz I just love riding a bike hard. And then yeah, that's pretty much it. Did d Athlon, d Athlon, National Champion once, way back in the day. And yeah, just kind of, kind of did it all. But through all that I did road racing, crits, raced a bunch of pro like NRC stage races and all that good stuff. So [00:05:20] Craig Dalton: Gotcha, gotcha. And was finding kind of gravel, just a natural thing up there and bend. [00:05:25] Matt Lieto: Yeah, I mean it's, you know, we, we've got winter here, or we had winter. We'll get, you know, this great segue into what we'll talk about here eventually. But you know, so cinders on the roads, you know, instead of salt to, to keep the roads clear. Here we have cinders, so, those can be a little bit sketchy if you're riding a road bike. So, originally when I moved to town, I was working at a bike shop, wrenching and stuff. Bought a cross bike for that. And then once I had my cross bike, I was like, and I have good buddies with like Carl Decker and Rancher boat and those guys. And every ride we just ended up on dirt every, you know, whether it be single track or whatever. And after a while, like I. And there, those guys are all capable of anything, right? So we'd be on a ride and I'd be on my TT bike and we'd end up on single track and I'm like, Guys, this is like not that awesome. my time trail bike. So eventually I got the right, right bike for the job. And yeah. And in Bandish there's so many dirt and gravel roads, certainly in the winter to be able to to ride when a lot of the pavement isn't clear and you're going slower. So it's. You're less cold, you know, it's 35 degrees outside, going 20 on a road bike doesn't sound that fun. But going 12 on a travel bike is pretty sweet. So [00:06:35] Craig Dalton: Yeah. And when did you start to see like the gravel bike events take off and capture your attention? [00:06:40] Matt Lieto: Well yeah, in Oregon we had, we had like kind of a, we have a rad, I think a really cool like road racing scene. Are we used to? And. A guy actually ended up working with. Now, Chads Barry helped him put on the Oregon Trail gravel grinder. He'd been putting on road races for years and there was a road race. Man, I wanna say. He must have started in oh five, but it was a gorge Rube called it, and we had like six miles of gravel on every lap that was like a 20 mile lap. And it was a cat one, like proper full on road race. And I think one year like net overran was out there with us and like all sorts of like fast dudes. And so we we're riding 23 c. Road tires on gravel, you know, in oh eight or oh nine. And then we slowly started, like after that race he put on a race, he's like, Why don't we just do a race that's totally on gravel? And I think maybe started that in, in 12 and then obviously with everybody else kind of catching up. It was kind of, kind of natural, but it was, it was funny. It was almost weird going to races where we're riding like 30 plus c like cross tires for gravel cuz we're so used to like picking through everything on 20 fives. But, [00:07:47] Craig Dalton: I think my first, in fact, I know my first gravel event was one of those events outside of Bend, maybe in Sisters, and I went up there. I had like a first gen niner. Gravel bike, maybe 30 twos on it. But my buddy that came with me only had a road bike and we kind of read and they were like, You can do it on a road bike. So he was out on a road bike on that. He did get the ship beat out of him, I will say, in all the stutter bumps, but he may manage to survive it. [00:08:16] Matt Lieto: Yeah. Was that the, the, was that the gorge or was it at in Bend? Like near Bend. [00:08:21] Craig Dalton: It was near bend. [00:08:23] Matt Lieto: Okay. Yeah. I mean, dude, yeah, more power. More power to him for sure. And all this being said, like when we were doing this stuff, you know, there was one year when we went from going from like the race with just the eight mile segment to like the full race. I mean, there must have been. 25 guys that flatted in the race, like I've flatted 20 miles in and like the support vehicles like do we're well outta tubes, man. Like you're on your own. So there's definitely like growing pains with how we tried to do it, but it's it's pretty fun. Pretty [00:08:54] Craig Dalton: Yeah, it's so interesting. I mean, we talk about it a lot here just how the equipment has evolved to just make the disasters less frequent, right? Like I just, I had a cross bike back in the day and every time I rode it hard off road on Mount Tam, I would flat and I was just like, Why am I bothering doing this? I might as well just ride a mountain bike and not flat. [00:09:11] Matt Lieto: Yeah, totally. It's, yeah, it's crazy. I think people forget at times what the technology has allowed for us. Like right now I'm looking, I'm, my studio is also where my trainer is, right? So I'm looking at my cella sitting on there and it's, I mean, there, gravel riding wouldn't be around if there would, if disc brakes weren't a thing, right? Like if, if, if we didn't make that move, we wouldn't be doing this. That's why the biggest tires I could ride at those old gravel races were 28. Cause that was on, you know, if you had a cross bike, obviously you could ride something bigger, but it's yeah, it's, it's cool. It's fun. Interesting to see where, where it all goes and where we like stop and we're like, Okay, I'm now riding a mountain bike again. [00:09:51] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I'm, I'm very much there. I mean, people look at my gravel bike. I now have one of those Rudy Suspension forks on it, and I tell people like, you know, where I ride? It's just, it's better, it's faster, it's safer. I'm more comfortable. I go straight up and down the coastal range, there's no in between and I'm flying into things and having the suspension just means I flat less and have more fun. [00:10:13] Matt Lieto: Totally. And so we're, we're on the same page. We're gonna geek out here for a second, but, so I also have, I have the competitor to yours. I have the fox fork. I'm on the East Overland gravel team. We've got Fox and it's, you know, Before that somebody, somebody said, Hey, I want a bike with a fork on it. I'm like, Dude, if you're gonna ride something where you need a suspension fork, ride your fricking mountain bike. Right? Like that was always my line. And they sent me one. They're like, Try it out. And I'm like, just mind blown. Right? Like it is. So much fun. And I'm not even, I used to say, I'm embarrassed to say, I'm not embarrassed to say anymore. It is my favorite bike and I do have like an embarrassment of riches that I've got a couple of my as sparrows. So I have one set up without and one with, and it's just for old dudes with neck issues and like, just everything that comes with being old. It is so much more comfortable, so much more fun. And I did this huge well, not that huge bike packing trip from. Boulderer to Steamboat with Decker this summer and I had my front suspension on and bike packing. It was like game changer cuz like, you're going down embedded rock at 20 miles an hour with all that weight on. Like when you see it, you just like, ugh. This one, I'm like trying to jump stuff and going off little drops and stuff. It's great. [00:11:30] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. Same way. Same [00:11:32] Matt Lieto: it'll be, it'll be, it'll be interesting to see where it, where it goes. [00:11:36] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I'm, I'm super interested to see like when the kind of average cyclist starts to see that as being an advantage. Cuz you, you would imagine like people who are really into the sport, like you and I, like, we could suffer, like we could take the abuse if we wanted with a rigid fork and you know, we could make that choice, but we're not, we would seemingly be more willing to take that abuse than the average cyclist should. [00:11:58] Matt Lieto: Totally. And, and, and this is what is, It's like a, I think gravel hit the accelerator when we hit Covid right On like where it was gonna go. Like I'm, I don't know if anybody buys a road bike as their first bike anymore. Right. But a bunch of people buy gravel bikes for their first bike, which is great. I mean, dude, more people on bikes is all great things. I love it. But it's interesting that the, it seems like I, I see people move to Bend and people that live in Bend are on forums and like, Hey, I can, I, can I ride this single track on the gravel bike or da da da, and I'm. That you shouldn't, you shouldn't be doing all this on a full rigid bike. Like, it actually doesn't, like, it's not fun. Like I, I encourage you, like I, I'm, I'm sure you can and I'll support you in trying, but you'll have way more fun if you're on a bike that actually is like, suited for it. And I think, I think those bikes and dude, like, I'm probably a year away from thinking e gravel bikes are the best thing ever. You know, just, you know, seeing people, like I know people, Carl's. Rides an e-bike and they go on 60 mile rides now, where that couldn't happen before. You know, it's just cool. There's, it's great to see where renovation has taken us for for sure. [00:13:07] Craig Dalton: Yeah, a hundred percent. I didn't know I'd see alignment with you so well on these subjects. [00:13:13] Matt Lieto: Oh, it's just Man, Cupid's Cupid's shooting his arrow over here. [00:13:18] Craig Dalton: as you got sucked into kind of gravel racing and I, I remember a few years back you were part of the Eastern Overland team. Sounds like you still are. Did that become more of like where you were getting your kind of racing outta your system? [00:13:33] Matt Lieto: Yeah. Compared to triathlon. Yeah, for sure. And I, when, when I, when I stopped racing triathlon, I, I mean, probably for the last few years I didn't, like, I didn't love it and I, I might not have ever been the person that like loved it, but going from my background as an overweight dude to someone who's. Flying around the world, making a living in a professional sport, it was like pinching me, right? But I always was bummed when I couldn't do the stuff that I really wanted to do. You know, racing bikes and skiing and that and that sort of thing. So when I had the opportunity, you know, Easton Overland, it was probably after my first year at Unbound, I raised with. Craig Richie and some other Michael Vanderham and some dudes there and were like, Hey, we should start this team. They're like, Hey, do you wanna be on this team? I'm like, Okay. And this is way back in the day. And this is funny, like looking back at it now, they're like okay, what will it take you to be on the team? And I said, Okay. Two things. You can never refer to me as a professional gravel racer. Because at the time that didn't exist. Right. And I'm like, Don't do that. And second, you can't pay me anything. , Of course now it's like the, the opposite, going ahead, but just a, a rad group of people and it's all kind of a hobby for us. And you know, the goal is trying to find people that could maybe use gravel as a platform to become athletes, right. And make living off of it. And like we fell into finding Amity the first year and like three months later. One Unbound and it's like, All of us were like, we get no credit for that because we didn't. No offense. Amity, if you're listening, we didn't think you were gonna win on down that first year. Right? So, we are, and she's still involved and she's, she's a sweetheart and she, yeah, she's awesome to still, still be around, but So we continue wanting to try to open doors for people that might not have it. And then for old timers like us that just kind of wanna still have a good time, it allows me to to be around cool folks and ride cool equipment and still go on adventures, which is sweet. [00:15:25] Craig Dalton: Yeah, absolutely. When you think about like the experience of a gravel event, a good gravel event, and then you compare that to like an Ironman day. Are there similarities, like just sort of how you feel, the accomplishment, the journey you have to take throughout some of these events? [00:15:42] Matt Lieto: For for sure. And I definitely, and I think the most similar was Unbound and because it just, I did it in 18 and it, it gave me challenges in ways I didn't think mostly like I flatted three times and that was like, I kind of had some assumption that that would happen, but not to that extent and like, Getting back to the front group till the last flat, like kept going. Like that was, you know, it was like all these, and then you're used to that in triathlon where it's like, it's never the person that has the clean race that wins cuz nobody does. Right. So it's like adapting and, and that I love. So that was really similar but the, the depth of like, it's hard cuz I think I'm gonna get crap for this, but I think every gravel race besides Unbound in my experience is. Way easier than an Ironman. And that's because you're not running, man. And maybe if you're a great runner, you would not say the thing. But I was a shitty runner and I was just trying to get to the finish line every time. Right? So like coasting when you're really freaking tired. That wasn't a thing in triathlon and it is in gravel. So like for me, the shorter ones totally like up to six hours, way easier the unbound. Because you can keep going when you're tired. The like depth of how fatigued you get is like a different level cuz Ironman, I've done it like nine hours max. And if you're struggling it's your like legs that are tweaking out or like you like stop where in. In Kansas, you're just, you have to keep going and you're like, your, your level is well below E so it's it's cool. Like you definitely have to like figure out where, where your energy's coming from. And again, the similarities for me, the, the problem solving is, is fun. I mean, the last, the last aid, the last stop at Unbound, after I had, I'd finally kind of cracked after the third flat. And I call into the guys and I'm like, It's. Coke and gummy orange slices, and they're like, What do you mean? I'm like, Everything . And they like changed it. I literally ate like, you know, three pounds of orange slices you get at the gas station and, you know, 96 ounces of Coke to get to the finish line. Like it's, it's, it's chaos. It's awesome. It's super awesome. [00:18:10] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I, you know, it's interesting, you know, I enjoy talking to people with a triathlon background cuz I was a hobbyist triathlete. Like, I'm like a, I don't know, a 11 and a half hour Iron man kind of guy. But what I learned early on was like, you just, you can't cut corners. Like you have to think about your nutrition. You have to think about what's next. Something's always gonna go wrong. And then when I started doing these gravel events, it was the same way. It was like, not like I was an exceptional athlete, but I just. Get bothered if stuff went wrong. Like my bike was gonna break, I was gonna fix it. I was gonna keep going. I was gonna bonk, but you know, half the people ahead of me were gonna go through the same thing and it's just a matter of keeping the pedals going forward. [00:18:49] Matt Lieto: Totally. And I think you get to the point where when something happens and you have a struggle, whether it's nutrition or mechanical, like as quickly as possible, you figure out and triage like, is this fixable? Okay. If it's not, then like, what's my clears out? Like how do I get what I need? And then, Then you keep going. It's, yeah, it's super fun. And that being said, like I don't know that I've ever not finished a gravel race. And in most cases, like again, like at Unbound, that first year, Not that like, whatever, but a lot of people then didn't know what they do now, and people would've been like, Okay, my race is over. But it's like, No, stick a plug in it, Chase back on blah, blah, blah. Like I was still in the race till, you know, 140 miles or something, till I got my third one. So it's like, it's not the way you'd wanna do it, but it's like there's always opportunities and all that being said, game has changed since then. I'm not, that's not an option I don't think at the the frog group anymore over [00:19:42] Craig Dalton: Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I think you're right. All right. I wanna take a pretty hard detour and talk about protect our winters. Can you just kind of give the listener an overview? What, what the heck is it? [00:19:56] Matt Lieto: So it's Protect Our Winners is a nonprofit that was started actually by. Jeremy Jones I wanna say it was like 2007. And he's a professional snowboarder. Now runs a company called Jones Snowboards. The people, if you search for him, you'll, you'll find him. Pretty, pretty rad dude. Pretty, pretty cool. Like in hindsight, now looking at him, I went to DC with him and it's like, it's hilarious. It's like, You know, Broey snowboarder dudes like started this like full machine. That's like helping us survive the next little bit on earth. But yeah, I think I won't assume what his story was cause like, I won't tell it as well as he did, but basically just going out in the, and exploring the, the zones that he loved, but also obviously depended on to make a living. He saw that it was all changing, right? Like the winters. I mean, it's a very, it is a very yeah, I mean, he, he, he, he definitely saw, he saw the issue and was like, Man, what can I do to fix this? And like, I think it was a very bold, at the time, thought to be like, I'm gonna be able to make a difference. But I think he and I, dude, I mean, I'm sure if he talked to him now, there's no way he, he would. Protector what is, would be where it's at. But basically he's, you know, trying to, to make a change and use voices of, you know, obviously it started in winter sport, so winter sport athletes to to, you know, he obviously had a platform to talk to people that were fans of snowboarding and for him specifically to be like, Hey, This is real. The, the world is changing and it's, it's not going in the right direction for us to be able to do what we want to do for fun. And then started obviously using other people in winter sports and then summer sports and so on and so on. To try to, to broaden the, you know, I think it, it was not lucky, but like maybe a little bit lucky. The growth of protect our winners happened at the same time. Is social media kind of taking off because the kind of ambassadors and alliance members that these guys have aligned with are able to reach a lot of people that care about where they live, but maybe don't think that they can have an impact or do anything with it. And I think that the overarching vibe I get from protect our winners and talking to the folks is just like, Man, you. You can be involved, you can make a difference. And if, And right now, especially like voting is, is huge. And if these alliance members or these, you know, people like Jeremy can, you know, influence or followers to no matter what your viewpoint is, to go out and and vote. And preferably if you're part of what we refer to as an outdoor state, which is anybody that participates in outdoor sports, whether you're a hunter or fisherman or whatever, like you probably. About what's gonna happen to our planet in the next little bit. Whether it's cuz it's what you do for spare time or you know, for me, living in Bend, know, it affects the community. You know, like fire is real and fire season has always, always kind of been a thing. But now it's like fire season is like a month and it might. [00:23:09] Craig Dalton: Yeah. [00:23:10] Matt Lieto: Two weeks, man, where like the AQI is over 400 and you're not going outside to do anything if, and like if you're inside, you got an air filter and you're still not doing anything, right. So it's, for me, that was kind of the, the crux was, was getting out and you know, seeing that, that there's a problem that needs to be solved. But again, I think protect our winners does a good job and be like, there is. Something that you can do to, to help. And I mean, I know you've got a similar, you know, viewpoint and concern and you know, wanting to to impact as well. What was it like for you to try to be like, Okay, I'm this like little dot, how do I like, I think that's the first thing, right? Is like, well, there's nothing I can do. Right? Like me recycling isn't gonna [00:23:53] Craig Dalton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, you know, going back to Jeremy's like the origin story, like it's really natural, like as a snowboarder who goes back to the same mountain year after year, to kind of understand visually like where the snow pack level is, where you know what's possible to ride and that's what's not possible to ride. And I think what I started seeing in California, With the droughts and the wildfires is like the reservoirs I would go by were just shockingly low. And then combine that with, as you were just saying, like having to actually know what AQI is and get a little app on my phone to look at it every single year to see the effect of smoke blowing into our community from forest fires. It was just really stark. . And that's what I found interesting about the Athletes Alliance is like anybody who touches the outdoors, if you're a gravel cyclist, a rock climber, you're seeing it firsthand happening in front of you. [00:24:48] Matt Lieto: Oh for sure. And it's, it's funny you say that cuz you know, living in Bend and I grew up in Northern California and cut my teeth raising bikes and stuff down there and I'll go down for MIGS races in Grasshopper stuff and in Norco. And I mean, one year on the way back, I had to like go a different way home because the way I was wanted to go home was on fire. And it's, you know, not the same as it used to be. And it's it's sketchy, right? And it's it's, it's real. But again, honestly like. I've got buddies that are involved with Protect our winners. And that's why I kind of got involved myself is them just chatting and thinking I had a platform, and obviously knowing that I'm aligned politically and care about the same things, but for me, and I don't know if it's the same for you, but for me it was like, well, what, what the heck can I do? Right? Like if, if I, I think the, the last few years people just feel like be down. Like we're not gonna be able to, to change anything. Right? Like, where, where are you? Where's your head? [00:25:48] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I think, you know, early on in my, my sort of life post college, I used to think about politics, honestly, like every four years in the filter of. Who's the presidential candidate that I get behind and is probably the last kind of maybe eight to 12 years that I just started to realize, like having a say in who's representing you locally and having those preponderance of voices. Starts to, to make a difference. And I did some phone banking to try to get people out to vote for candidates. And I started to realize there was like this huge disconnect for people. Like, they just didn't even make a plan to vote. They didn't make it a priority. And I, I just started to think to myself like, it's only a few times a year you're asked to vote. It's not that big a deal and spend a little time getting educat. About what the candidates are there for, and if it whatever lands for you, support them, do it. This is like our civic responsibility not to be up on a [00:26:49] Matt Lieto: Yeah, for sure. And it, yeah, it's not, it's not, again, it's not that hard and depending, and I'm speaking from a, a place of privilege, right? For me, it's not that hard. For you, it's probably not that hard either. In Oregon we have male and voting, so it's like incredibly easy. If someone in Oregon said it's hard, it's because they're lazy in my opinion. Or you. I shouldn't judge. But anyways, it, it is pretty darn easy compared to, to what it used to be. We're not standing in line for an hour at a time. Right. It's, it's pretty simple and it. It's impactful. Right? And I think that's the important thing and, and there's so many resources to be able to, It's not like these days, like clearly you can go and get the pamphlet they send you and read through everything, or you can, I mean, you could probably Google, what should I vote for having this opinion? And I'll find it conveniently. Here's a plug. Stoked the Vote Campaign from Powell. You can actually just text 6 5 3 51 text stoke to that number and they'll like tell you where their nearest polling spot is. And if you want, they'll actually give you you know, some, a voter guide that kind of tells you who to vote for or what This is under the action fund of protect our winners, kind of a sister, sister company and they'll, they'll tell you kind of where to vote and what line to vote on. Your concern is the environment and specifically this go around. It's like Montana, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado. I think Utah are like super, super important. So if you live in any of those states and you happen to be listening text 65, 3 51 and they'll let you know. But like, I mean, me and my buddies and, you know, cycling I think is a very social pastime and me and my cycling buddies every year. Every four years or every two years, we'll, like have a dinner party and everybody brings their, like, not their ballots necessarily brings their pamphlets and will like talk about it. Right. And like, we're never getting in arguments or anything. We're just like saying what everything is and kind of, I don't know. I, I think it's it brings something more to our like friendship and like our casual hanging out more than just like talking about bikes. And it's, it's kind of fun to like hash it out, you know. [00:28:58] Craig Dalton: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I was visiting the protect our winters.org site today and clicked on the Stok Stoke vote and saw that whole process that you mentioned over text message, like I put in my name, my address clicked through, told me all about the California deadlines, how to return the ballot, how to track the ballot. And I think I was, I was reading cuz they had, it sort of had an interesting breakdown. The fundamentals. It's like, okay, make sure you're registered to vote and how can kind of help facilitate you finding that information out. If you're not registered to vote, make a plan to vote. So make it easy. Get the stuff in front of you so you can figure out how physically you're gonna vote, whether you're gonna mail it in, whether you're gonna walk in and, and, and submit the ballot and cast your vote. And again, how, how you should be looking at your local ballot measures from the context of we all love this thing, gravel cycling. Whether you believe it or not, it's happening that it's, it's it's being impacted and whether it's massive rainstorms in the Midwest for the early season, mid-south gravel races or mammoth tough getting canceled because of California wildfires. Same thing's happening in Oregon. Like all this stuff, it's right as our, at our doorstep as gravel athletes and you cannot close your eyes. You have to get out there. [00:30:18] Matt Lieto: No. Totally. Yeah, a hundred percent. You you said it said it perfectly and I think it's hard too, cuz I think at at times with how crazy our political environment is right now, that people just, you know, don't believe. Everything, you know, people have, have some people have doubts in the political system in general that is like, look at the facts. We're not gonna go down that, that rabbit hole. But even if it is, like, try, like all you can do is try, right? And I, I'm pretty confident that my vote's gonna make a difference. But I think the big thing that you can ignore is I think sometimes, especially in you know, where I live from where I live and my beliefs, people just, we just assume, like you look at the polls, you're like, everything's. It's like, no dude, do not trust the polls. Like we, That is not something that we can rely on and I think for so many reasons outside of what we're talking about now, even it's so important this next election and, and I think it's hard because I think a lot of the people that are disillusioned a little bit, Are folks that are young folks and a lot of those people aren't voting. And a lot of people that like myself are kind of live in a, a area of, of privilege to a certain extent. You think, Wow, whatever. Everything's fine. Like, I don't need to vote, But it's like, man, no, you do. And no matter what, where you live and what your socioeconomic zone is or what you do for a past time, Something in this next election is going to affect you. Right? So if you care about it or you care about, it's certainly gonna affect someone you love. So get out there and get off your ass. And in my case, I don't even have to get off my ass. They just send the ballot to me and I put it in my mailbox and send it back. So there's yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a great time to want to be involved, [00:32:06] Craig Dalton: And I think there's, there's such a thing as political will and just whether you're in a region that has climate favorable policies and that's the prevailing kind of political, political wisdom, great. You still need to st show up and show that we've got massive amounts of support. For these kind of things because there's other parts in the country that you know, don't have the same kind of support, have a lot more headwinds to addressing climate change, and every little bit helps. [00:32:36] Matt Lieto: For sure. And I think there's the, even the, the other side of it is there's, and me. The first, when I first got involved with P I was like, Man, I'm not gonna be able to make a difference. Like, People have been trying to, to make a change in this for years. It's, you know, there's still people that don't believe that climate change is real and all this stuff. Right? And then I went, I was lucky enough to be able to go to Washington DC with protect our winners and, and a bunch of folks through the Athlete Alliance and the Creative Inside Alliance and like sitting down and talking to senators and congressmen and stuff, and, Crazy. I'm like, Whatever. I'm here. We'll see if you guys think I can make a difference, whatever. Not that I'm, I think that I did, but in every conversation we're sitting down with very conservative representatives and not one of them did we spend any time debating whether or not it's real and like, that's stinking huge man. Like that was not the case four years ago. And like I was in a couple meetings with Jeremy Jones and he left. He's like, Dude that is, That is not how this used to be. So keeping like being annoying and knocking on the door and saying, Hey, this is important to me. And of course like we're going there with the like facts, like, hey, the outdoor state is, you know, over 600 million people and this many dollars is going into it. So you start talking their language a little bit, be like, Hey, if my town burns down, then they're gonna lose this much money and blah, blah, blah, whatever it is. But like to leave that. Have the, like, conservative Congress people like High Five and be like, Hey, send me an email. Let us know how we can help. Is like awesome. It's really cool. [00:34:15] Craig Dalton: Yeah. That's amazing. What an amazing experience to see government working like that. Maybe it's not working fast enough, but just to, to be there and having the conversation like that's important. [00:34:25] Matt Lieto: totally. And, and you know, and, and, and p is definitely. I feel lucky being able to have that firsthand experience. But anybody who's involved in power or supporting p is, you know, helping all that infrastructure be around for us to go there and do that. And like, you know, before the last vote for the bill for you know, bunch of money going to climate change and relief and stuff, you know, I was like, email. Swing voting representatives, right? It's like, that's crazy, man. They're emailing back like, it's pretty cool. So like, you know, bragging a little bit about what Powell does, like there's a bunch of stinking smart people making the right moves and. It's hard too. Cause I think go a little bit of a tangent. I think, and this was my barrier to being involved with Powell. And if it wasn't for my buddies, I probably wouldn't have been because man, I don't know how good you are at like sorting your recycling, but like, I'm not very good like, I'm, I'm imperfect when it comes to this stuff. Right? And one of P's big things is it's imperfect advocacy, man. Like in the end, like I'm still trying to get better at all that, Right? And like, I want to eventually get an ev cuz it makes a lot of sense on a bunch of different levels. And, you know, I, I recycle and I try to do everything. I can take my bag to like everything I can, but in the end, the, the personal change isn't really as big of an impact. And I'm being polite. It's the systemic change that is gonna get us out of this shit. And that's what protect our winners is, is shooting for. And they're like combining all these resources of these people to go where it actually matters. And if we can get, you know, every ski resort to change to, to being more efficient and, you know, you know, government to be able to, to, to function at a level where we're using renewable resources and things that we can do now. And that's one big thing with POW two is that right now they're just like, Keep an eye down the road, but like we're looking like right now, like near horizon stuff, stuff we can change now because if we can convince people in the government to put, give energy into doing something like let's do the stuff that we can take care of now. And so they're like kind of cleaving on that, where I think there's, there's a lot of other people looking down towards the road, you know, further down the road. [00:36:39] Craig Dalton: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad this conversation was able to happen now, and you know, I kind of turned myself a little bit inside out thinking, Oh, I got a couple podcasts I'm supposed to put out there. Then it dawned on me like, What, what, what am I doing? Like we got one week until the midterm elections, If we can change the couple minds and get some people to make a plan to vote. If we can expose them to Powell's efforts over the long term, like that's what I need to be doing and I hate to be soak boxy to the listener. As I mentioned to you offline, Like I tend to sit back and not say a whole hell of a lot, but I really do believe it's important to get out there and make a plan and vote, and you've got time to do it this year. [00:37:17] Matt Lieto: dude. For sure. For sure. And I mean, I, I, I don't mean to diminish as I did in the past, like, you know, I've been a slacker in the past too. I mean, when I was younger I didn't vote because I was lazy or whatever. But. And I'm sure there were issues that were very, very important then that I ignored. But I think now it's kind of hard to, to look and think that this election specifically isn't super important. And again, kind of the, the, the, the moves that have been made just in the last couple months to help in climate change. You know, if everything changes in two weeks. They can cleave a bunch of that and take that stuff back, right? Like the way our, our system works. So it's like we're all celebrating high fiving that we've got this thing across the line, but in the end, if we vote the wrong people in in two weeks, then that's gone and we're back at ground zero. Right? [00:38:08] Craig Dalton: Yeah, you're back at Mile one 50. The Unbound 200, right, right. Again, [00:38:12] Matt Lieto: That's the worst place to. [00:38:15] Craig Dalton: Exactly. [00:38:16] Matt Lieto: That's the worst place to be. So close, but yet so far. That's a great analogy. I think we're gonna start using that at Powell one 50 at [00:38:23] Craig Dalton: Right on. [00:38:24] Matt Lieto: Yeah. That's too funny. Well, dude, yeah, no, and it, I will echo what you just said. And again, I, I'm similar to you. I don't assume that people wanna listen to my opinion very often, but it comes to a point where, like, right now I don't care. So I apologize if you, you guys don't wanna hear my opinion, but in the end, I don't even care who you vote for or what you vote for. Go out and vote, right? Like that's your responsibility and we're able to do that in this country. And I don't think we should take that for granted. Clearly. I'd, I'd like you to support you know, voters or people that are coming in to, to help with climate change cuz it's affecting what we're doing, gravel racing, what we're doing in winter sports and, you know, us surviving the next. The next century. So, if you've got the capability, get out, get out and vote. [00:39:10] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Goodness. Said it better myself, Matt. Cool. Well, great to get to know you a little bit. I can't wait to run into you at some of these gravel events down the line, and I appreciate all your. [00:39:20] Matt Lieto: Yeah. Thanks. The, thanks for having me on and bringing a little attention, Toal and, yeah, we'll, we'll get some, we'll get some gravel riding in a bend or Norco. I'll be down there soon enough. [00:39:29] Craig Dalton: Right on.   [00:39:30] Craig Dalton: That's going to do it for this week's edition of the gravel ride podcast. Normally I would be taking a moment to ask for your support with a rating or review. But this week, I just want you to get out there and vote. Make sure you're organized. Make sure you've got your ballot. If you're not registered already figure out if it's possible to register at this moment in your state. But get out there and do it. No excuses this year. Until next time. Here's to finding some dirt under your wheels

I am Northwest Arkansas
Did You Know The Greatest Maritime Disaster In The United States Happened In Arkansas?

I am Northwest Arkansas

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 31, 2022 39:40


About the Show: Being a member of https://www.facebook.com/rotary/ (Rotary) certainly has its privileges. We heard the next guest of the podcast at a Rotary meeting. Retired Judge John Fogleman shared a historically significant story with our club about the greatest maritime disaster in US History. We were surprised to learn that this disaster did not occur off our East (Atlantic) or West Coast (Pacific). It happened just off the shores of Arkansas on the Mighty Mississippi River about seven miles North of what is now downtown Memphis.  Judge Fogleman sat down with us to share the whole story of the Sultana disaster, which took place in April of 1865, only a few weeks after the assassination of President Abraham Lincoln. There are so many plots and subplots in this story, and Judge Fogleman does a great job outlining them all.  You will never look at a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steamboat (steamboat) the same again.  We hope you enjoy this episode of The I Am Northwest Arkansas podcast. We had a lot of fun sitting down with the judge, and this is a piece of history that we all need to be aware of. This story moves you. We encourage you to support the building of the https://www.facebook.com/sultanadisastermuseummarion/ (Sultana Disaster Museum) so that this story and all of the remaining artifacts from the ship have a permanent home.    All this and more on this episode of the I am Northwest Arkansas podcast. Important Links and Mentions on the Show*: Judge Fogleman Email https://www.facebook.com/rotary/ (Rotary Facebook) https://www.facebook.com/sultanadisastermuseummarion/ (Sultana Disaster Facebook)   This episode is sponsored by*: https://www.signature.bank/ (Signature Bank of Arkansas) -   https://www.signature.bank/ (Signature Bank) was founded here in Northwest Arkansas in 2005 and focuses on personal and community banking. When you bank with a community bank, you're investing in local businesses, local entrepreneurs, local charities, and causes close to home. They have worked hard to earn their tagline, “Community Banking at its Best.” You may ask why bank at Signature?  Because they focus on the customer instead of having a branch on every corner, you can have your questions answered by a real person, whether you're reaching out to the call center or your banker's cell phone. You can access any ATM in the country without fear of a fee.  They will refund all of those fees at the end of every month. Finally, they are constantly improving their digital offerings to ensure you can access the best financial tools from your laptop, phone, or tablet 24 hours a day. Signature Bank of Arkansas is a full-service bank offering traditional checking and savings accounts, investment accounts, business and personal loans, and mortgages. Give the folks at Signature Bank a call (479-684-4700) or visit their websitehttps://www.signature.bank/ ( Signature.Bank) and let them know you heard about them on the I am Northwest Arkansas Podcast.  https://www.signature.bank/ (Signature Bank of Arkansas) is a Member of the FDIC and an Equal Housing Lender.     http://www.iamnorthwestarkansas.com/canva (Canva) -   Are you looking for ways to build a Digital Marketing Strategy from scratch? Whether you need to design things for your family or personal brand or need a versatile design tool to help you with your social media presence. Canva can help.   Need new Business Cards? Canva has you covered.  Need to create and post Social Media images quickly? Canva has you covered. Need to create videos for Social Media and beyond? Canva has you covered. Need to create a sharp-looking resume? Canva has you covered. Need access to more than 3-Million Royalty-Free Images?  Ok, you get the point! Canva covers just about anything you need from a design perspective, and it costs pennies a day to open a Canva Pro...

A beer A crime A tale
Episode 49: Halloween 2022- The Haunted Eliza Battle

A beer A crime A tale

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 28, 2022 26:20


The Eliza Battle was a Tombigbee River steamboat that ran a route between Columbus, Mississippi and Mobile, Alabama in the United States during the 1850s. She was destroyed in a fire on the river near modern Pennington, Alabama on March 1, 1858. It was the greatest maritime disaster in Tombigbee River history, with an estimated thirty-three people killed, out of roughly sixty passengers and a crew of forty-five.  Her tragic end now haunts the Tombigbee River on cold spring nights. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe, download and rate so you can know when our next episode is available.  Thanks for listening!!Resources:https://www.southerngothicmedia.com/blog/episode-56-eliza-battlehttps://cdispatch.com/opinions/2012-03-10/ask-rufus-the-tragic-story-of-the-eliza-battle/https://www.al.com/life/2021/10/the-ghost-ship-of-the-eliza-battle.htmlThirteen Alabama Ghosts and Jeffery by Kathryn Tucker Windhamhttps://seeksghosts.blogspot.com/2011/08/steamboat-harbinger-eliza-battle.html

Prestigious Minds
18. Cornelius "Commodore" Vanderbilt goes International with his Steamboat Operation

Prestigious Minds

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 25, 2022 38:37


Once the Commodore had gathered resources from selling his prized steamboat routes in the New York Sound, he started focusing on a new enterprise: The California Gold Rush. See many people were traveling to California after 1849, but there were only two ways to get there - trek across America in hostile territory or take a ship around the the tip of South America. Both gave their own set of troubles for the settlers. Vanderbilt, however, saw a third option. Subscribe https://prestigiousminds.captivate.fm/listen (here) for FREE on your platform of choice! We would appreciate it if you would leave us a five star review on Spotify or apple podcasts! If you want more history, but with pictures to go along with the story go check out our Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Go tag us in a post and tell us your favorite brew of choice, or for those of you who prefer something else you can drop that in the comments as well! Prestigious Minds - Learn from those who did it best Website: https://prestigiousminds.captivate.fm (Prestigious Minds website) for news and updates Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pmindspod (Prestigious Minds Page) Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pmindspod/ (@pmindspod) Twitter: https://twitter.com/pmindspod (@pmindspod) Jeremiah DeWitt Copyright 2022 Jeremiah DeWitt

The Rest of the Story: Revisited | Paul Harvey
Treasure Found in the Missouri River! | The Arabia Steamboat

The Rest of the Story: Revisited | Paul Harvey

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 24, 2022 3:31


400 steamboats lie beneath the surface of the Missouri River, victims of its treacherous waters. One of the boats is the Arabia which sunk with her 200 tons of precious cargo. Generations of failed attempts to salvage the treasure were trumped by one man who dedicated his life to finding the ghost ship. Tune in for the rest of the story!https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabia_(steamboat)#:~:text=The%20Arabia%20is%20a%20side,a%20team%20of%20local%20researchers.

Snark Marks, A Retrospective Wrestling Podcast
Episode 74: Chi-Town Rumble: 1989 NWA PT. 1

Snark Marks, A Retrospective Wrestling Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 23, 2022 132:45


Dusty has long wanted to introduce Andrew to the NWA's 1989 offerings, and we are finally taking the plunge. Things were in a transitional (and sometimes tumultuous) phase following a few changes to WCW including the firing of Dusty Rhodes as booker, but they still had Flair, and they still offered a brand of wrestling that appealed to the classic fan: the characters were believable, the wrestling was believable, and Rick Steiner was in the building. In this episode, we discuss the Chi-Town Rumble from February 1989, which featured a lot of fun and was anchored by a 5-star classic turned in by Flair and Steamboat for the NWA title. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram @SnarkMarksPod and subscribe to our YouTube channel! 00:00 - 25:01 Music, Andrew went to Six Flags 25:01 - 2:12:46 Chi-Town Rumble

They're Terrified & Tipsy
105. Ghoulies (1985) - Patreon Pick! - All aboard the awful 80's movie STEAMBOAT! Toot toot!

They're Terrified & Tipsy

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 19, 2022 69:12


Hi Friends! This week we watched the Patreon Pick Ghoulies from 1985. Guys! It's become pretty clear that our Patreon loves to pick some REALLY bad 80's movies for us! So buckle up, pack your bags, and enjoy the ride on this awful 80's STEAMBOAT! Toot toot! Cheers!———Live on https://www.tispypod.com for all things Tipsy Pod!Patreon: https://www.tipsypod.com/patreon — Ad-free episodes a day early — Exclusive content including 8 full episodes covering the Archive 81 series — Free swag — Monthly Patreon Picks, and more, join our Patreon community!———YouTube blind reaction short scary movie watch alongs: https://www.youtube.com/theyreterrifiedtipsyFacebook BUZZWORDS: https://www.facebook.com/groups/tipsypodMentioned merch: — Weak Arms: https://bit.ly/3ToWHBNMentioned episode: — 17. Halloween 1978 – Part 1: https://www.tipsypod.com/17-halloween-1978-part-1/ — 17. Halloween 1978 – Part 2: https://www.tipsypod.com/17-halloween-1978-part-2/———https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089200/Directed by Luca BercoviciA young man and his girlfriend move into an old mansion home, where he becomes possessed by a desire to control ancient demons.———Part of the Slash 'N Cast Podcast Network: https://www.slashncast.network/All podcast links: https://www.bio.link/tipsypod#comedy #podcast #film #review #horror

American Countryside
Steamboats in the Desert

American Countryside

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 14, 2022 3:00


When you picture steamboats, we may have images of stately paddle wheeled ships moving up and down the Mississippi River.  So, it may seem odd...

Sanity at the Movies
Steamboat Bill, Jr. (1928)

Sanity at the Movies

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 13, 2022 69:48


Silent comedy rules. Especially when it's done by an artist of the caliber of Buster Keaton. And Steamboat Bill, Jr. is one of his best. It contains stunts that are still breathtaking, and comedy that still makes you laugh. And some heart, too. What else can you ask for? We also threw in Disney's Steamboat Willie just for the heck of it. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

The Gravel Ride.  A cycling podcast
Josh Poertner - Silca

The Gravel Ride. A cycling podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 12, 2022 102:09 Very Popular


In this week's episode, Randall has Josh Poertner on to talk aerodynamics. In a wide-ranging conversation, the two touch upon Josh's time as Technical Director at Zipp, involvement in the development of computational models for rotating wheels, early collaboration with Cervelo founders Phil White and Gerard Vroomen, founding and leadership of the product brand Silca and The Marginal Gains Podcast, and ongoing consulting work with elite athletes and teams. Silca Website  Marginal Gains Podcast Episode Sponsor: Logos Components  Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Silca - Josh Poertner [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the show, I'm handing the microphone back to my co-host Randall Jacobs. Who's got Josh Portner, the CEO of Silka on the shout out a wide range in conversation about the sport and high performance. Many of you may be familiar with the storied Silka brand. It's been around for close to a hundred years. But josh took over back in 2013 with a mission of merging the highest quality materials and craftsmanship with cutting edge design and manufacturing When you visit the Silca website, you notice a tagline, the pursuit of perfection, never settling, always improving. And I think that embodies how Josh approaches the sport. . So I'm excited to pass you over to Randall to dig into this conversation. Before we jump in i want to thank this week sponsor logos components Yeah, I've been itching to get back on a set of six 50 B wheels, and I've been waiting for my logo's components, wheels to arrive. They literally just arrived last night and I'm super stoked. But yet disappointed because I have to go away for the weekend and I won't be able to actually ride them until sometime next week. I chose the Atara six 50 B model. As you know, I'm sort of big on the big tires, big fun philosophy. So I've been eager on my unicorn, which I've been riding on a 700 SEASET for a while now. To get into the six 50 bees again and see what a six 50 by 50 combined with that rock shock fork is going to yield for me on the trails here in Marin. You guys may remember. Me sitting down with Randall, talking about what makes a great gravel wheel set and everything that went into these logos component wheels. I encourage you to go back to that conversation because whether or not the logo's wheel set is for you or not. I think Randall does an excellent job of teasing out. All the various considerations. You should be having when considering buying a gravel wheelset, It is no small expense when getting into a carbon wheel set, but the team at logos has endeavored with their direct consumer model. Uh, to make it as affordable as possible and make them as durable and high performing as anything out there on the market. I written wheels designed by Randall for the last three years. So I'm super excited. To see his latest vision come to fruition. With these new wheels and I'll have them underneath me soon enough. I encourage you to check them out@logoscomponents.com. Randall's also an active member of the ridership community. So if you have questions for him, feel free to join us over there at the ridership and connect with other riders. I seen people paying that their wheels have arrived so you can get some real, real people answering your questions. About whether they're enjoying the wheelset and how they perform, et cetera. And I'll have more on this in future additions. At this point. I'm going to hand the microphone over to Randall. And i hope you enjoy this conversation with josh [00:03:30] Randall: Josh Portner, thank you for joining us on the podcast. This is a conversation I've been looking forward to for quite some time. Some deep bike nerdy is probably about to ensue, so, uh, let's dive, let's hope. Dive right into it. [00:03:43] Josh: Well, thank you for having me. Always, always up for some deep bike. Nerdy. I like that. [00:03:49] Randall: So a number of our listeners will already know who you are, but just give folks a high level summary of what you do now. [00:03:55] Josh: Oh gosh. So I own Silca, um, or I own Arrow Mind, which, uh, owns the Silca brand and trademark, um, and, and all that that entails. And then we also have a, uh, we own Marginal Gains, which is a podcast and a YouTube channel. And, um, Yeah, our goal is to, a mind works with a lot of pro riders, pro teams, world tour teams. Um, you know, we do everything, Excuse me. We do everything from, you know, performance consulting, uh, modeling, uh, you know, setting up our record attempts for people or, or helping them design our record attempts. Um, you know, we do tire pressure work with pros. We do equipment choices for teams. We think some of the most interesting stuff we do, um, is around where like, uh, teams or national federations don't trust the equipment they're getting from somebody. And they'll come to us and say, you know, the, you know, bike brand X says that this does this, and our writers don't think so. Can you tell us what's true? And. We'll find a way to make that happen. So we, we've had some pretty interesting ones of those with, uh, particularly around the Olympics with the national federations. You know, no, nobody wants to have another Under Armor speeds skating suit, uh, situation, , right? Where all the, all the athletes think something is true and therefore it becomes true and, and nobody knows. And so, um, you know, so we do a lot of that. Arrow mind does that, essentially. And so that's a lot of the performance work I was doing in my old world. I was technical director at ZIP for almost 15 years. Um, and, and then Silca is the product arm of the company. Uh, that's probably how, you know, most people know us. You know, we make pumps and tools and, and, but we also make a lot of crazy things that people look at me and go, Oh, where the hell did that come from? Well, that probably came from some project or another. We did it in the Arrow Mind side of the business, Um mm-hmm. . So that's how we've gotten into sealants and lubricants and 3D printing and, and all sorts of other craziness. Right? That's sort of how the one flows into the other. And then, you know, Marginal Gains is a podcast and, and YouTube channel where we talk about it all and, and we, we typically with a, a team or a company have like a two year. Secrecy period on a technology. And then after that we can do something with it and, and talk about it and tell the story. So, you know, it's always, it's always fun to go through those periods where like, Oh, thank God we can talk about that now, . Cause you know, we're talking about it internally all the time. And, and you're like, Oh, can we put that in the podcast? I don't know. So, so that, that's what I do now. We, I, I play with bikes basically. [00:06:34] Randall: Very, very cool. And, um, when you talk about the consulting work you do, is this kind of full stack performance consulting, is it very a focused, is it all technical sides, including say, like bearing drag or, or things like this? Is it, um, obviously positioning falls into Arrow Nutrition. Like where, where do you, ooh, where does your domain physiology start? [00:06:57] Josh: And I draw the line at physiology, you know, there's a whole, there, there are people who are, are like my equivalent in that world. And, and my God, I can never even dream to. You know, clean their shoes. So, um, no, you, you need someone to talk physiology, you know, And I'll, I'll pull my phone out and we'll call Allen Li or somebody, you know, Yeah. With a bunch of contacts. But, uh, you know, Alan's one of my favorite go-tos for things like that and be like, Oh dude, I've been over my head help . You know, [00:07:21] Randall: he, he's, um, he's actually been on the pod before, but Craig interviewed him, so I might bring him on in the future to do, you know, my, my more kind of nerdy type of interview. Alan's great. Yeah, no, [00:07:31] Josh: he's, he's a lovely guy. He's a lovely guy. And, and I just love, I mean, he, you know, like I find myself pretty quickly sometimes getting into places where people's eyes just glaze over, like, what the hell is this guy talking about? And, you know, I love that Alan can do that to me in about 30 seconds, you know, we're talking about the stuff that he does. You're like, Oh, whoa, shit, way over my head way. I, I didn't even recognize the last four words that you used in that sentence, . And, uh, so it's, it's awesome to be able to be surrounded by people with that. But no, you know, we. The stuff that they come to us for. I mean, you know, when I left sip and started soak, of course everybody and their brother, you know, came and said, Oh, design us a wheel. I'm like, well, like I can't do that for a couple years. But also I'm kind of just done with that, you know, like I've lived that life. I, you know, it, it was fun. But, you know, we, we continually updated wheels for 15 years, but it, it really is kinda like doing the same thing over and over again, you know? And, and so it just wasn't fun for me. So, you know, they'll come and say, um, you know, help us design this cockpit, or we, we do a lot of, with our, our in-house, uh, 3D titanium printing, we do a lot of custom cockpits for, uh, teams, riders, things like that. You know, where we laser scan the rider, get the position, lock that down to the wind tunnel, design the part, 3D print it, um, you know, stuff like that, that, that's really exciting. We, we'd get a lot of, you know what, um, You know, help us optimize for this time trial at the tour or the Olympics or whatever, where, you know, what tires should we run and we can, we have systems and tools and, and spreadsheets and a million other things that we can, um, Yeah. Help, help them determine. And then a lot of times we, you know, we get companies coming to us, um, really just wanting to know, like, you know, if, like, which of their sponsor products should they use and when should they go off sponsor? You know, you'll see that a lot at like, the tour where, excuse me. Um, you know, like they, they ride the sponsor correct product, you know, 98% of the time, and then they're gonna sneak it in here or there when it's really critical. So, you know, what, what are those really critical points? And then, you know, if, if they're gonna risk getting in trouble or outright get in trouble, like it needs to be worth it, right? And so they might come to us with like, okay, you know, we need. I need a time trial tire for this rider for this day. You know, what should we do? And, and we'll help him with that. But yeah, you know, if you, if you were a, a brand, uh, or a world tour team there, or approach our athlete that wanted to go to the win tunnel, you know, you might pay us to come along. Um, a lot of what I do too is kind of fun is just act as like a fly on the wall in these team to sponsor interactions. You know, I think I was probably at half a dozen wind tunnel tests last year where I really had pretty much nothing to contribute other than being the neutral third party in the room, um mm-hmm. you know, so that everybody was comfortable that everybody was. Comfortable . [00:10:26] Randall: Well, I would imagine there's a mix of the, uh, the political, if you're talking about, you know, what should be using our own sponsors gear versus slipping something else in all the way to, um, balancing the competing goals of say, like comfort and pure power output on the bike versus aerodynamics. Um, if you're talking about a time trial position. Yeah. [00:10:47] Josh: Oh yeah, for sure. And, and I think even down to, you know, and I think as much as we love to talk science and testing and, and try to be as scientific as possible, I mean, this stuff is really, it's emotionally hard. It's politically hard. It's, you know, companies will bring new equipment in, they're with their engineers. I mean, those guys and girls want that stuff to work so bad. And you know, sometimes you just see things coming out where, Oh yeah, that's clearly faster. And you're like, Well, actually, the way I would interpret that is it's probably about. The same, um, or mm-hmm. , you know, let's, let's rerun that test or, um, you know, it's always, I don't know, it, it, they, they like, people like to get themselves in these loops where, you know, Oh, we did this and it's 10 seconds faster and it's that, And I feel like back in the, you know, when I was with zip, we did this a lot during the Lance Armstrong area and he was writing our disc and, and we were coming in as consultants for the first probably five tours or whatever. And um, you know, every wind tunnel test you'd get to the end and they would have this chart that's like, we just made him 90 seconds faster. And it's like, look guys, that. There is no 90 seconds faster. I mean, you know? Mm-hmm. like, like that is not gonna happen. You know, you, you just did a whole bunch of stuff that's not sustainable that he can't hold his head like that. Mm-hmm. that helmet tails gonna come off the back, you know, I mean, cuz he, people do things like, Oh, oh, the helmet tail moved, rerun. You're like, Yep guys, when you ride in the real world, like the tail's gonna move. Like you don't, you know, people like to, they select data, um, without even realize they're selecting data. And so, you know, it is, it's just good always to have a third party in the room. Um, you know, it's kinda like funny story, you know, back to, you know, my zip days, how Firecrest came about, you know, Firecrest was literally the name of the prototype that, that kind of blew all of our minds. And the reason the prototypes had weird bird names was that we had to double blind them across engineers because you just didn't want anybody. Kind of, you know, having an effect on their product, right? I mean, we all, you know, we all fall in love with our children, right? . And, and in this world, like you, you can't love your children. Um, and you have to be willing to kill them when they're not good. And, um, you know, we would do this double blind thing where we would like assign them all a number and then we would assign bird name, these bird names a number, and then we would randomize it and then they would get all put up. And then nobody really knew whose idea was what, when you were in the tunnel. Um, that's necessary, right? Cause you're, you know, you can be your own worst enemy at that stuff. I think we've, you know, we've all been guilty of that a time or two in our lives. But, uh, you see it all the time, particularly in these performance, um, improvement coaching type things where, you know, people just wanna will something into existence even when it's not. Yeah. [00:13:38] Randall: Well, and I can see, um, you know, the marketing oftentimes has it much more, uh, presented, much more like a, you know, this is just, it's physics. It's more, it's more exact, it's more, um, it's more controlled. And, um, there are competing variables, particularly when you have, you know, a monkey in the middle. You have to, this, this, you know, this animal needs to be comfortable. This animal needs to be fueled, This animal needs to be able to control this machine through a varied environment. And that varied environment may be varying in real time if weather changes or things like this. Um, and so there's just all these competing interests. And so when you see, you know, I often laugh at like, You add up all the different arrow benefits that, you know, different companies claim for components and you should be doing. Right. Right. You know, you might be looking at, um, uh, relativistic effects potentially at some of the speeds you'd be able to achieve. Uh, Jen, just like how, how many watts can be saved. Totally. Being a little bit facetious there. [00:14:37] Josh: Yeah. No, no, it's totally true. I mean, and I still have this photo somewhere, I think I even showed it a couple years ago on social media. But as this, this really great photo that I love that ended up, um, on the wall at the Texas A and Wind tunnel, but it's me with next to Lance Armstrong, um, in the, what became the Nike Swift spin suit, um, that had been flown down there from, you know, Seattle. And it's, uh, oh God, the guy in from his book college or whatever he calls him, and then a guy from Nike, so it's the four of us. And I'm kind of standing there like doing, you know, like pointing at something on his back and it, like, a college student took it for the school newspaper and then they had him autograph it and it ended up on the wall. And so like, Oh, that's me. You know, it's kind of funny. But, but the real story there was that suit, you know, they were paying like 3000 bucks a meter for this suit. They'd been putting it on a mannequin in the tunnel. I mean, it was gonna save three minutes per 40 k. And you're just sitting like going, guys, like, I, I mean, just quick doing the math, like three minutes for Lance Armstrong, you know, like the guys already, That's not possible. And, and of course we get it. We put it on him. Um, the whole thing, you know, it, it's, it's cool, it's fancy, it was very red and it does nothing. I mean, it literally, we were, and the Nike people are there and they're like, Oh, that's not possible. It, it can't do nothing like whole. Let's run it again. Okay. Now get 'em out of it. Put 'em in the normal suit. Run that one. You're like, it, it just doesn't do anything. And, and they just kept going. Well run it again. Well do this. Let's, let's close pin it up. Let's tighten it. Let's, do, you know, I mean, I bet we, we lost two hours trying to make that stupid thing look like it would do anything. You know, And again, it's, it's just people being people and we've all done it. But [00:16:21] Randall: I hear like something of stages, of, stages of grief. Like, you have your baby and like first it's denial, and then you, then you have bargaining. Yeah. Yes. Put so much into this. Yeah, that's exactly, [00:16:32] Josh: that is exactly what it is. And, and you know, the, the crazy reality with that one was, you know, three months later at the tour, they launched it anyway, and they said it saved three minutes and he , you know mm-hmm. . And we, we. It, you know, I just had to laugh. I mean, I remember, you know him, you know, winning whatever one of the time, trials by like a minute and like going, No. So Nike's essentially saying he would've lost that time trial by two minutes had it not been, had he not been wearing that suit. Come on guys. Um, yeah. [00:17:00] Randall: Well, and I think that, that maybe that's, um, you know, headline number one from this interview is don't believe everything you read, especially if it's coming from a party, has a financial interest in it. [00:17:10] Josh: That is true. That is true. Yeah. I, I, I tell don't, don't even believe yourself. Right? I mean, truly like you, you are a bad, um, a bad predictor of things and, and you're a bad feeler of things and nobody wants to admit that. Um, but it's just true. You know, that's, I've been preaching that gospel for, for years. But, you know, I mean, 90, I, I would say 90% of the things you. That you feel when you're on your bike. Total, total crap. Um, and, and we know that cuz we, we've done blind testing with riders. I mean, like unbelievable world class rider. And if you blind them to what they're actually riding, they can't tell you almost any Yeah. Um, you know, all that perception, but still, but the stories away, the [00:17:56] Randall: stories we tell ourselves are powerful. There is a strong placebo effect. Oh, for sure. Uh, for sure. But it has to be acknowledged that that is the placebo. And if you actually had those beliefs about things that had genuine benefits, you would get both, You would get the actual [00:18:11] Josh: benefits. Yes. The, the most powerful thing in the world is a placebo that actually works. Right. , where you get, it's like a, it's a double whammy benefit. Um, and so yeah. That, that's where, you know, I mean, in a nutshell that's a lot of what, you know, I've made my career doing right, is trying to help, help sway people towards the, the, the placebos that, that actually do have a, a, a benefit for them. [00:18:34] Randall: So this has the conversation going in a slightly different direction than I was anticipating, which I'm really enjoying. So I've been, I've been diving into this lecture series from this guy Robert Sapolsky at Stanford. It's on, um, the, uh, uh, behavioral biology, and it's looking at all the different ways in which studies go wrong. And so there's like, you know, beliefs about something, uh, for a long period of time, you know, eminence, people in the field, uh, promulgate these, you know, these ideas. And then it's shown that, you know, the study was, was not, uh, taken, uh, done properly or what have you. And so I'm curious, let's dive more into things that go wrong in the study of aerodynamics and, um, maybe kind of the edge of, say, human performance where interfaces with aerodynamics [00:19:17] Josh: Hmm, ooh. Interest. So, I mean, a, a good. I would say career defining for me, example of that was, um, you know, we, from like 2009 to 2012, we were really all in on developing, uh, CFD for the, for bicycle wheels. And it, it just wasn't working right. Everybody was talking about it and showing papers, and, but I mean, it just, the reality was like the CFD just never looked like the wind tunnel. The curve shapes were different. The data was, we're, we're talking It [00:19:47] Randall: wasn't mid, mid [00:19:48] Josh: nineties, right? Oh, no, Mid, mid late two thousands. Yeah. Like mid, late, late [00:19:53] Randall: thousands. Okay. Yeah. And you're not using, you're having to develop something ground up or you're having to, uh, adapt something from Desso or, or one of these bigger [00:20:02] Josh: vendors. Yeah, So I think the question at the time was, you know, how do you, how do you really properly model the spinning wheel in, in flow that's also translating, right? And you look at. You know, all the CFD stuff with aircraft, um, you know, there's no rotational flow, you know, and then you look at, there's special models that people have built to look at, like, um, turbine jet, turbine engine combustion or whatever. But those are incredibly unique. And they're also, you know, there's RO flow rotating, but in a different access and Yeah. [00:20:36] Randall: The F1 guys perpendicular access. [00:20:38] Josh: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so, and then you got the F1 guys who weren't really modeling, um, they were modeling the rotation of the wheels, but they were doing it by modeling a rotational component at the surface of the tire. So you were, you weren't essentially like spinning the wheel, you were just saying, Oh, there's a induced rotation a about this surface. Um, which has been in the, the solvers forever. So [00:21:02] Randall: in interesting, this is taught because the, those wheels are traveling so quickly, especially the top of the wheel. If you're doing 200 miles an hour, the top of the tire is traveling at 400. And so you're having sign significant turbulence at that interface, right? Well, [00:21:15] Josh: and you, you have like Magnus effect, right? You're actually getting pressure differential top to bottom, um, you know, from , the direction of the wheel spinning. And so, you know, we, we could do stuff like that pretty accurately, right? You know, you could look at the, you know, a rotating baseball and, and predict the direction that's gonna curve. I mean, things like that were possible. But, you know, every single, and, you know, my God, I used to get, I still do occasionally, but I, I used to probably get 20 PhD papers a year from kids all over the world. Um, you know, Oh, what do you think of my paper on, you know, CFD of bicycle wheel? And we're like, Oh, it's beautiful pictures, but your data's crap. Um, . And it just wasn't figured out. And, and in 2009, I, I met a guy, Matt, uh, Godo, who's a triathlete, but he also worked for a company called FieldView. And they had built all of the CFD automation for, uh, Red Bull F one, um, and probably half the F1 grid, but his, his big account was Red Bull. Um, and he, I met him at Interbike and he had a paper that he was working on. He said, I think, I think I might have figured this out, but I really need to be able to like, Like, build a wind tunnel in the computer and then look at it so we can directly compare them back and forth. And, and so we, we did that. We published a paper at the a I a, which was at MIT that year, and it went over really well and people liked it. And we published another paper the next year, um, at, at the a i A conference. And that went well. And then we got this big grant, like an $80,000 grant from Intel, um, to really tackle this problem. Cause the, the head technologist at Intel at the time was a guy, uh, Bill Fry Rise, and one, one of the coolest guys I ever met. Um, you know, the kind of guy who, whose resume just has like a five year period that says like Los Alamos , like, [00:23:01] Randall: okay, you're cool. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Not, not allowed to talk about it. What do you do? Yes. Uh, yes, exactly. . But, [00:23:08] Josh: uh, but he was a cyclist and he was some senior, somebody at Intel. And, and, um, And they, they gave us this money and we, we, we really went hard at this and we ended up developing a, essentially all of the little nuance details. Uh, we did it in star ccm. We post processed it in field view. I think we processed it on like a thousand cores, which for 2010 was, you know, a lot. Right. [00:23:33] Randall: Um, and these are, these are, um, CPUs and not GPUs for that era. Right. A lot of the stuff of that era GPUs now, right? [00:23:40] Josh: Yeah. Yeah. I remember we, yeah, I mean, that was the beginning of, uh, that was the beginning of the cloud. It was pretty cool, like 2008, 2009, people were still traveling. I remember at one point in that process there was discussion that like, we might have to travel, um, to, Oh God, what is it? The, the university over there in Illinois had a huge, had like a 1200 core machine and they're like, Okay, we, we might have to go there and, and buy, you know, two days of time. And then as that was happening, cloud. Kind of the beginnings of cloud was there. And I remember we, we met a guy who had a cloud thing, and they had just been bought by Dell. And, uh, we were at a conference and he's like, Oh, no, you know, with our, our thing, What was that called? But, uh, with our thing, you, you can just do it like up in the ether. We're like, Whoa. You had never heard of that before. Yeah. Um, it was just exciting times and, and, uh, but, but we, you know, had this great team. We pulled it together. I mean, that's really where Firecrest came from, right? It was, it was largely designed using, um, Hundreds of iterations of capes predicted to be fast, uh, using this cfd. And, and ultimately we won. We, we became like, I think the first non university and non-governmental group to ever win a, uh, uh, innovation excellence award from the Supercomputing Society. So it was pretty cool. Salt Lake City's like this huge super computing conference and you know, it's like darpa, this and university of that. And it was like these four guys from this bike brand and, you know, was, uh, it was a pretty cool experience. But, but in that, so that's like a huge tangent. No, [00:25:17] Randall: no, this is, this is great. And, and just to take a, uh, stop for a second, CFD computational Fluid Dynamics software that is used to model complex multi-variate systems where there's second order effects and, you know, fluids and, and things like this. So anyone who's not, uh, who's not with us on that, like complicated software for complicated system models, in your [00:25:39] Josh: ideal world, it's like a wind tunnel on your laptop, right? In the, in the George Jetson's version of things. It, it's the wind tunnel on the laptop. And in the reality of things, it's kind of more like, eh, it's about as good as guessing most of the time. But, but, but sometimes it's really good at finding certain really specific things. So I won't, uh, I won't knock it too hard, but why the thing I wanna [00:25:59] Randall: dive in a little bit [00:26:00] Josh: here. Oh, go ahead. Yeah, yeah. Well, let me, so let me finish the, the thing that we discovered in this process that was super cool. Um, was that once we had all of these transient, we were solving for all these transients, um, and we really started looking at not just like the, you know, the, the side force or the yaw force or you think of um, you know, the whole thing with like wheels and handling, right? This all came out of this project cuz you could, you could predict the steering torque on the wheel, which, you know, none of the balances being used to test wheels at the time even had torque sensing, right? You had drag side force and lift, but none of them had the rotational components in there. And so that for us at first was like, oh shit, we've never thought about torque cuz we weren't measuring it. Right? It's sort of one of those, yeah, like you've biased your study all along, but then the big one was looking at the predicted, um, data and there were all of these, uh, harmonic effects. and we kind of looked at each other and we're like, Oh my God, every wind tunnel you've ever been in, Right? The first thing everybody discusses is, you know, what's the, what's the, the time across which you're taking the data and at what frequency? And then you're averaging that data, right? Cuz we're all after a data point. And you could look at the tunnel data and the CFD data, and when you pulled them out of their point form into their wave form, essentially you could see the harmonics kind of lined up, the frequencies match when, oh shit, we've been averaging out a really important piece of data for 30 years. You know, this harmonic thing is big. Like what's your, [00:27:39] Randall: your standard? So it's operating on a, it's operating on a frequency that is smaller than the sample rate. Or how [00:27:46] Josh: was it essentially? Essentially we were just idiots and we were just, we were just time averaging the all of that out. Right. I mean, it's, you know, if you need to Okay. Any wind tunnel you, you went to in the world and be like, Oh, well, we'll take, we here, we take data for 30 seconds at, you know, whatever, a hundred hertz, 60 hertz, 120, or whatever it is, and then we'll, we'll take an average. Oh, okay. That, that's fine. Got it. You're averaging out in there is real, um, uh, like amplitude changes, uh, largely due to vortex shedding is, as it turns out with bicycle wheels. But a lot of that high frequency handling stuff, particularly as wheels get deep, um, , sorry, I'm in, uh, I'm in our studio, which is off of our kitchen and somebody's lunchbox just, just leapt off of the top of the [00:28:34] Randall: refrigerator. Um, yeah, sometimes I'll have a niece or nephew come in screaming, so No worries. Yeah. So, but, [00:28:39] Josh: uh, but no, we, we realized there, there was a, a. About a factor of five difference in amplitude between wheels in terms of that, those oscillating effects. Right. Which typically it's just, it's generally vortex shedding. And the CFD can predict that really well, right? Where your little pressure builds up, sheds off, sets off a counter rotation that sheds off. Um, but as a, as a cyclist, you, you feel that as the wheel, you know, kind of oscillating left to right. Um, and we, and let's, let's for 20 years, you know, [00:29:12] Randall: Yeah. So you're just taking the, the lump, you know, 30 seconds averaged out data and saying, Okay, it gives you this amount of benefit and you're not seeing those. Um, I mean, really what we're talking about is, uh, you know, instability that may. Or, you know, otherwise result in, in control issues on the bike. And I want to take a moment to just like, define some terms, uh, because not, you know, many of our listeners are not overly technical. Um, but uh, I think some of these concepts are easy enough to get your head around, like, so, you know, describe at a very high level you're talking about vs. So, you know, maybe describe lader flow and flow attachments and vortices sheddings. How, how does this, how does this, uh, how can you understand this without a, a technical background? [00:29:59] Josh: Oh, those are awesome questions. Okay. So Lader LaMer flow is kind of what you. What the, the world wants you to think of in the wind tunnel. You see the wind tunnel picture and they've got like the, the 10 lines of smoke and they're all kind of flowing together cleanly and beautifully. That's, that's meant to, to evoke lam or flow, right. That if you were to drop a, a smoke or a particle in there, that they would all flow in lamini, you know, like sheets of paper. Um, yeah. Uh, so, so [00:30:29] Randall: it's going in a straight line. Smooth, [00:30:31] Josh: controlled, Predictable, yeah. Flow. And it, it follows the contours of the thing that it's flowing against. So, [00:30:38] Randall: so kinda like water flowing down a river sort of thing. It's not perfectly laminate, but it's all going roughly in the same direction. And there's not a lot of water [00:30:46] Josh: in a pipe disturbance, you know, would be in a pipe better example, presumably pretty laminate, right? And then you start to add stuff, you know, water in the river. Now you're, you're, you know, you've got a rock and now all of a sudden there's a disturbance and it starts to swirl. Um, and so you, you get into, you know, more complicated types of flow. I, I think the, the big ones, you know, for us to think about are, you know, most, so most drag that we deal with comes from, um, uh, pressure related things. So you either have like the, the high pressure on the front of the rider, right? The wind that you're pushing into this when you stick your hand out the car window, right? The mm-hmm. the air you feel hitting your hand, you know, that's, uh, that's a pressure drag, uh, in the positive direction. And then you have the flow, the vacuum in the back. Yeah. The flow will detach off of the object and that'll create a vacuum behind. And so that's a suction drag, um mm-hmm. . And then when you have something like vortex shedding, it's when, uh, the, the. Description I ever have for vortex sheddings. If you've ever driven an old car with, uh, like the metal antenna on the hood, you know, at some speed on the highway, that antenna starts vibrating, oscillating sideways, which is like the last thing on earth you think it would do, right? Like your brain's like, well, it should just keep bending backwards with speed. Mm-hmm. , why is it going sideways? Well, that's that you get this thing where you have a little, uh, a little curl of flow will kind of detach more on one side than the other, and that creates a side force. Mm-hmm. . But in doing so, the suction that that has now left behind will pull a similar vortex from the opposite side. Mm-hmm. . And that creates an opposite side force. And so you get these, see an oscillation, you get these oscillations and uh, you know, that's, it's huge in architecture and mm-hmm. , it, it's why you see so many of those super tall buildings or kind of have pyramid shapes or might have some sort of like, feature that spirals down them to, to kind of break that up. I, I live [00:32:46] Randall: in Boston. We actually have, um, a skyscraper here that was flexing so much, the windows were popping out. This is, you know, decades ago. And, you know, it's still, you know, they have this like funnel of air that's going through there and just the nature of the shape of it and how air gets funneled in, it was causing enough torsion to, um, you know, cause window de bonding. Um, so yeah. That's crazy. Uh, so then, you know, think applying this to the bike and particularly a wheel, um, you know, this is the biggest effect is, is presumably your front wheel where you're having this oscillation, this shift in pressure from one side to the other at a very high, high level, um, that's causing instability. It's making it so that you may lose control of the bike. It's not predictable. [00:33:34] Josh: Yeah. Correct. Correct. And, and the, the other thing we learned through CFD that it was doing, which is not obvious until you think about it, but so you think of the. So you might have, say it that the trailing edge of the front half of the rim, you're, you, you set up a little vortex shedding situation. Mm-hmm. . Um, and so you've got a little side force, but it's kind of at the, the trailing edge of the rim there. Right? So it's got a little bit of leverage on your steering, but the other thing that's happening is that alternating attachment and detachment of flow, um, changing the side force, but you're a side force at an angle. So there's a lift component, right? Which is how the drag is being reduced. And as that happens, what, what's also now changing is what we call like the center of pressure. And the center of pressure. You think of like the wheel from the side, like, like the sum, the aggregate of all the, the arrow forces on that has a center point about which it's balanced. It's kinda like a center of mass. Um, you know, so it's, it'd be center of pressure. Well, that center of pressure when you have. Shedding happening somewhere that's now moving forwards and backwards and very [00:34:40] Randall: rapidly [00:34:41] Josh: as well. Potentially, Yeah. Rather rapidly. I mean, and, and when you really look, look in on it, it, the frequency actually can be quite close to, um, the, uh, speed wobble frequency, right? Which is somewhere in that like three to four hertz range. Uh, which also happens to be really close to the frequency of human, uh, shivering, which is kind of cool's why you're more likely to, to speed wobble when you're really cold. Um, [00:35:05] Randall: and not everyone just push will have experienced speed wobble. But if, you know, if this is basically your, you, you hit a certain resonant frequency of, of the frame based on the frames geometry, uh, the head tube angle, the what are the factors that go into that, [00:35:20] Josh: Uh, it's top tube stiffness is big and so, yeah. Yeah. And it's actually this speed wobble's. Interesting. It's. It starts as a residency issue, but it's really a, it's a hop bifurcation and, um, a hop B. Okay. And so, yeah. And so what you have in a hop, uh, bifurcation is you essentially have two st two stability, um, would be the best way to think of it. And you are jumping from the one to the other. And so like, right up until that, so the [00:35:48] Randall: system wants to be in one state or the other, but not in the middle [00:35:51] Josh: and there's no middle. Right. And, and what's, what's so cool, like, like early in, um, uh, early in covid, you know, we were all talking about this, you know, what is it the are not value, the, you know, like if it's above or below one. And when you, you line that out that are not, when are not crosses one, it's a hop bifurcation that looks just like the speed wobble, bifurcation, I mean the graph. It's amazing how like, cool those things, you know, mathematically you're like, Oh yeah, that's exactly the same as this. It's just here, it's in a, you know, you get the exact same graph if you're looking at, um, Uh, wing flutter in an aircraft, uh, in the wing tunnel. Mm-hmm. , similar bifurcation problem, but yeah. So you, you, you have essentially two states and the system can get tripped from one end into the other. And in the one the bike is stable and wants to go straight, and in the other it wants to oscillate because each oscillation mm-hmm. is setting up the, the counter oscillation. Um, and so like, it, it's, you know, in resonance it's more of like a runaway you, you think of like the, how that's tradition. Yeah. It amplifi forcing. Yeah. It, it just keeps growing and growing and growing. Um, and in this one it just, it, it, it's not growing and growing, but it just trips you into this spot where like it's really bad. Um mm-hmm. and it will just shake the crap outta you at the front end. And um, and in fact motorcycles quite [00:37:07] Randall: scary. The high performance motorcycles will sometimes have a steering damper for this very reason. Um, because you'll, yeah, you'll get these speed wobbles. And so the damper is essentially making it so there's some exponentially increasing resistance. Um, I, I know you know this, I'm explaining it for our, our audience just in, you know, cause again, I wanna keep bringing it back down to earth, but, you know, having just like your, your suspension, you don't just have a a just a spring, you have some sort of damping circuit so it doesn't feel like a pogo stick. Um, which is a related effect. Um, but, uh, very cool. And are not for our listeners as well. [00:37:47] Josh: Funny. I hadn't thought about that. I haven't thought about that in like two years as we were talking like, Oh, I remember now. That was, uh, yeah. Yeah, that was, uh, But what or not was the, um, Oh shit. It was the. The contagion ratio or whatever, like how, how many people, each person would transmit to mm-hmm. And so if it's, which makes sense, right? If every person's gonna transmit it to 1.1, it grows. If you're gonna transmit it to 0.8, it, it dies. Um, [00:38:12] Randall: so the analogy here is that, that the increasing amplitude of that, you know, those pressure differentials, sending it to the, the system to one state or the other and causing that increasing oscillation, Is that a exactly correct characterization? [00:38:26] Josh: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like you, you can take it right up to a line, um, and you don't have a problem. And then as soon as you cross the line, you're in a different state. Mm-hmm. . And, and that's where I think, you know, speed wobble for those of you who've experienced it or chase tried chasing it on a bicycle, um, you can solve it sometimes with like, the stupidest stuff. Um, you know, one of the, the common ones is to just put a little bit of like, um, like, like a heavier bar tape or a little bit of lead weight in like your, um, Uh, your plugs. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . You can oftentimes change it with a tire pressure or a different tire cuz you can add just enough damping at the contact patch. Um, that it just pushes it up high. You know, if, if, cause typically what people will find is like, Oh, it's, I'm totally fine. Then I hit, you know, 38.5 miles an hour and all hell breaks loose. Well. Mm-hmm. , you change the mass at the top of the system a little bit and maybe you've now pushed that point out to 45 miles an. but if you never go 45 miles an hour, you've affected, that's not a problem. Right? Yeah, yeah. Like, oh yeah, I [00:39:28] Randall: fixed it. I think another example that people may have experienced too is like, uh, sometimes you'll have an issue with your car that, you know, won't notice except that certain speeds and it's because of those speeds. There is some, you know, oscillation that's happening. If it's a tire and balance or something in your drive train or the like. Um, you know, I've, I once had a vehicle that was really good up to 60 and then like 60, 61, it was problematic and then it would smooth out a bit after that and it was just like this wobbling effect that would balance out beyond that, that speed. Um, alright, so then bringing things back down to earth. Um, this is delightful by the way. I, I could do this all day, . Um, and I, I hadn't quite appreciated. Um, the, the basic r and d and like basic science and tool building that you were involved in. Uh, so. That's, its its own topic. That's probably not one for, for a podcast of this particular [00:40:22] Josh: def. Yeah. I, I will say on that, I think that's the part that I think never, you know, the marketing never really tells that side of the story cuz it's just too complicated. Yeah. But if you're, if you're out there and you're, you're into this stuff, like that's the fun stuff. Like, I love launching product and, and the product itself. But like, that crazy journey to get there is usually like, that's where all the fun is happening. And, and, and typically cuz we're, you know, you're doing it wrong, like 90% of the time you're like, you know, it's just can be months or years of like, we suck, you know, this doesn't work, we're getting our sasses kicked. And then you, you know, if you persevere long enough, you will come out the other end and it's like, wow, we, we needed all that stuff. Like, we needed to get our heads handed to us over and over again, or we never would've figured this stuff out. Um, Yeah. I really, really enjoy that part of, um, of, of technology development or whatever you wanna call it. [00:41:16] Randall: Yeah. Basic, like real basic r and d right down to building the tools that you need to do the r and d you want to do, um, Right. . Yeah. Very cool. And obviously like the compute power and the, the algorithms available and, you know, the switch to GPUs and all these other things that have, um, changed since you were developing that make it such that today's models are both vastly more powerful and still yet trivial in complexity relative to the system itself. [00:41:44] Josh: Yeah, totally. [00:41:46] Randall: Yeah. Um, well let's dive into some more practical topics. So let's talk about like, alright, so a lot of our listeners we're the Gravel Ride podcast, right? So thinking about that particular experience, um, what should, what are, what is worth, um, a gravel rider thinking about. Uh, with relation to arrow. Uh, so things that can be done that will improve aerodynamics, but then not take away from the ride experience that a lot of riders are after, particularly when they're going to grab, you know, they wanna be comfortable, they wanna have a good time, they wanna have good control over a variety of different terrain and so on. So what are the arrow? Um, and, and they don't wanna look silly, so they might not be, want wanting to wear a skin suit or something like that. Not that it looks silly, but, but you know, a more, a more serious enthusiast type of rider. Uh, what are the Yeah, what are the things to think about? [00:42:36] Josh: Oh, gosh. That's, that's a good question. Um, I mean, I think it really depends on, on what. Th the particular rider, you know, is after, I mean, are you, are you racing? Do you wanna go fast? Do you wanna not get dropped? Mm-hmm. , um, you know, do you need to carry stuff? I mean, I would say one of, one of the big ones that I, I just see and, and you know, we, we make a ton of stuff in our company and one of, one of them being bags. And, you know, we're constantly accused of not making bags that are big enough. And so I've been on this mission for a couple years of like, you know, what is in there, , Like Really? Mm-hmm. what's in there. Yeah. And it is amazing to me just how much crap people are carrying. You know, you, you open some of these monster seat bags, it's like, man, just because you bought it doesn't mean you need to fill it or use it. Um, you know, it, and, and absolutely there's, there's like time and place for it. But, um, you know, I. Some of the stuff like that, like, Oh, okay. You've, you know, do you, you show up on the local gravel right here and you know, people look like they're, they're almost like bike packing, like mm-hmm. , you just don't need, you know, it, it's a 40 mile loop, you know, that starts and ends at a bike shop. Like, you, you don't need to bring a bike [00:43:49] Randall: shop with you. Well, you, you need your coffee grinder, you need your, your mini stove and you need your neuro press. Yeah, Yeah. Um, different experience. You know, let's assume that we're going after like a performance rider who's, um, like doing, doing, you know, a hundred, uh, a hundred mile events than they're, they're training for it and they wanna squeeze out more performance, um, out of their existing setup. Or they're considering, you know, what bike to get, what wheels to get, what, um, how to set it up, even considering bike fit. Yeah. Or, you know, clip on arrow bars and the, like, what are the different things that people can do and what are the compromises and so on. [00:44:24] Josh: Yeah. I mean, the, I, I think certainly for gravel. The one clear cut, no compromise. Better all around product that I can just always recommend is like a, an arrow top drop bar. I mean, it is amazing how much faster those things are than round section bars. I mean, any really, you know, like pro vibe or the zip fuca or whatever, you know, there's, I think every company makes one. It's that big, you know. Oh, it's hu I mean it like wind tunnel speeds. It's a flattop bar can be like 28 to 30 watts. I mean, it's nuts. Yeah. Cause you're, you're replacing round covered in tape with something that's like pretty thin and shaped Well, sure. Or it can be massive, but, but the, [00:45:05] Randall: I didn't, cuz the cross sectional areas is not that big compared to, you know, the rider and the, the rest of the bike and so on. Some [00:45:12] Josh: No, it's, it's, well and in gravel it has the double effect of being, you know, shaped or ized in the direction that is also gonna add compliance, right? Yeah, yeah. And, and comfort. And so you, you know, it's one of the few products I can really look at and go, okay, that thing is more arrow and more comfortable and has more service area for your right. I mean, better all around. Um, that's a pretty easy one to, to go with. And, and similarly, you know, if you've, you've got the money. I mean some of these, the, the integrated cockpit solutions that are out there are even faster, right? Cause it's just even less. Stuff in the wind. Um, so let's talk you, let's [00:45:48] Randall: talk about that. That's big, a big serviceability compromise and, and you know, fit can be a concern with that too cause it's harder to swap components and so on. How much of that is coming from, um, simply not having the cables running into the down tube? Like, can you get the vast majority of those benefits with cables coming out from, say, underneath the bar? If they're tucked in on the bar or even coming out from the bar and dropping underneath the stem into the, the headset from there? [00:46:14] Josh: Yeah. Yeah. My, my rule of thumb for cables that I always use cuz it's so memorable is, um, You know, Greg Lamond versus Fon in the 89 tour time. Mm-hmm. , So 2020 kilometer time trial. Um, the eight second gap, there was more or less equivalent to Fons ponytail, Right. As we, we loved to joke about a cyclist, but was also the equivalent of one number two pencil length worth of cable housing. So, and [00:46:46] Randall: this is, and this is true even if the cable housing is say, in front of the head tube, so it's going to be disturbed by the head tube anyways, cuz you're getting the drag off of it. Be, you see what I mean? Like, so I, I'm trying to hone my understanding of the [00:46:59] Josh: Yeah. I mean, you think, Yeah. So I, I would think, uh, good way to put that would be that, Yeah. Putting, putting a slow. Crappy thing in front of a smooth thing, you're, you're still getting the drag of the slow, crappy thing. Yep. Um, and you may actually be worsening the flow, um, on the arrow thing. So Yeah. Got it. Absolutely. Still, you still have that effect. Um, you know it, and it's hard to say, you know, in some cases, you know, it's, it's close enough or it's just in like the goldilock zone where it's a good distance away where you're like, Ooh, we can kind of make them disappear. And they become, you know, uh, a almost like the cable isn't there, but that's not typically what we see. And typically, you know, you, you throw a bike in the wind tunnel with that and then you rip the cables out and you run it again and you're, every time it's like, Oh shit. Big difference. Difference. You've, in [00:47:50] Randall: terms of watts, like a few watts here, like, so, so the handlebar is the big one, you said as much as 30 watts at wind tunnel speeds, which granted gravel riders generally are, are, we're [00:48:00] Josh: not going that miles an hour. But you, Yeah, you we're out for a long time. Yeah, but you are out there for a long time, so you don't have the speed. But yeah, you, you definitely have the, the, the potential time saving. So, yeah, I, you know, hidden cables. I agree with you. Total pain in the ass. And, you know, my God, I've spent a career working on world tour bikes and, and you know, Ironman, world champion bikes and things like that. And I, I feel everybody's pain, you know, people are always like, Why is the industry doing this to us? Like, like, Well, cuz you want it and cuz it works. I mean there's no, like, it, it's a pain in the ass, but it works. Mm-hmm. . So anywhere you can get rid of cable. get rid of cables, um, you know, skin suit. I have to say not everybody loves it, but man, it can be a huge, huge difference. Uh, I mean, you look at, you know, we were just out at lead, uh, Leadville and Steamboat, and you know, all the top. Guys at Leadville and skin suits now, cuz it, it makes that big of a difference. Um, arrow bars can be huge and, you know, I think that's, that's one I I think everybody's got their own sort of flavor that they like. But, you know, to me, like for gravel, a stubby, a stubby bar that has functional pads mm-hmm. , um, really can be worth it just because it's a different hand position and it, it's enough that it, it's effectively changing your, kind of, your whole torso position and it, it, it's just giving you a, a break all around. Right. It's different pressure points in your shammy for the time that you're using it. It's different, you know, muscles in your back. Um, I think there's a good, this is the, the extent of my physi physiological knowledge, but I, I think it's good to, to mix things up. Um, like that. I, I know a lot of people have kind of gone to these super. Narrow, stubby, I don't even know what you call 'em. Like semia bars that Yeah, [00:49:46] Randall: mini arrow bars. [00:49:48] Josh: Nowhere to put your, nowhere to rest your weight. And, and it just feels like everybody I know using those is constantly complaining about their wrists, you know? Um, and so I, I, again, not a physical, but the change [00:50:00] Randall: in the change in frontal area, um, is that just an unmitigated benefit or are there circumstances where you can reduce frontal area and, you know, have a negative result within the realm of, you know, changing a Roger's position? [00:50:16] Josh: Yeah, you know, a lot of it depends on your, your baseline and, and how good you are. Positionally, I think, you know, when, you know, we do a lot of position training with top athletes and you know, the. The best place you can be that's not an arrow bar is on the hoods with level forearms. Mm-hmm. , right? Like that's the, and and ideally with relatively narrow bars, [00:50:37] Randall: so, and perpendicular upper arms as well, presumably, [00:50:40] Josh: or give or take. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it is, it's, you're gonna roughly get there depending on what the rest of the position looks like and, you know, obviously different body shapes and whatnot. But yeah, I mean, you think horizontal forearms are keeping that pretty much out of the wind. Mm-hmm. , Um, and, and they are also keeping it, it's just hard to hold that position, um, with, in a way that you're also still opening your chest. Because, you know, you were really trying to keep air from getting blocked up under the chest. And when you get a rider doing that, they just always kind of form, which I say always, I'm sure there's some counterexamples out there, but they, they almost always, um, kind of adjust their back and their shoulders in a way that they kind of turtle their head a little bit. You know, the head comes down and you're just kind of now pushing more air up over the body and less down into it. Um, but from there, arrow bars are almost always an improvement, right? Cuz you're narrowing the arms, um, you know, you're tightening things up even further and now you're pushing more flow around the sides, um, and less into the chest and less into the hips. And there's some physiological things. You know, people, you know, wide hips, big hands, certain shoulders, certain back shapes, right? That's why we go to the tunnel, you know, it's, it. 90% of the time, you could look at somebody and go, Oh, do this, this, and that, but man, 10% of the time it looks good and you run it and you're like, That's not good, We can just find a different solution. Um, [00:52:10] Randall: yeah. So air bars are huge. Another thing that we're starting to see is, uh, so BMC has their new cas uh, uh, line. They went with a super narrow, uh, handlebar, so narrow at the hoods, and then, you know, flare at the bottom. Uh, that seems like another thing that again, is, Well, I mean, on the one hand, yeah, you're getting narrower, but on the other hand, you're also closing up the chest and maybe, you know, you're not getting as much oxygen, like air turnover or something. Or like, are there issues where I, so [00:52:38] Josh: I, I have been beating the narrow handlebar drum for 25 years. Um, you know, I am yet to actually see or be told by a real physiologist that that whole. Oxygen lung thing that we were all told as juniors is true, is an issue. Um, yeah, I I've just, yeah, we've just never, I mean that, that I know of and I'm sure somebody out there will say, Oh, here's a paper. But, you know, I, I know whenever we've studied it, looked at it, we've looked at it with athletes, I mean, look at what's happening at the world tour. A lot of that is, you know, we've been beating that drum. I'm starting to see that for years, and people are doing it and they're winning. Um, so, you know, and I wonder [00:53:17] Randall: why aren't we seeing it with extreme flare as well, like a compound flare at least, so that you can still keep a, you know, a reasonably vertical lever position because then you could go even narrower and have, um, still have the leverage for the descending and so on. Is that a [00:53:32] Josh: tradition thing? Yeah, I, yeah, I think some of it's that. I think some of it is just, you know, how far do you really wanna push the uci? Um, [00:53:42] Randall: you know, oh, the UCI cares about the flare in your bars. [00:53:46] Josh: Oh, they will. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I think there are actually rules putting some limits on that, but yeah, at some point it's gonna look funny enough that you're gonna draw attention and they're gonna go, Wait a minute. Um, and, and you know, we've, we've [00:53:58] Randall: seen them, I've got a 28 centimeter wide bar with huge flares on there, and I've got specially made levers that come off of it so that I can actually still touch them from the job. [00:54:07] Josh: We have seen it with, I, I can't remember the name of that bar, but I think it's out of Belgium or something. But it's got like, you know, uh, 180 millimeters of reach, um, super narrow with long, and you can kind of lay your forearms. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember seeing that and they quickly were like, Nope, that's out. Um, so I, you know, I think we just, people are, people are cautious. I think the, the setups that are working now, um, are very largely built around that, uh, three T track bar. I can't remember what it's called, but, uh, I know. You know, it's got that kind of cool like wing, like gulling shape to it, but it's super narrow, arrow tops, um, relatively vertical, uh, drops. But, but that's a bar that the ucis allowed for years, right? And so I think that as a, you know, when, when conversations are happening behind closed doors, that's the kind of thing of like, Oh, well this looks enough like that, that if they call us out, we, we go in there and be like, Well, it looks a whole lot like this thing that you've allowed for 20 years. Um, you know, we, we have tons of those conversations. Yeah. So, so I, you know, I, I think, but I, I will say, I, I think too, that's where, um, you know, a lot of people might look at the pro tour and things that they're writing. Oh, well if this worked, they'd use it. You know? I mean, that was what people told us when we were building zip in the early days. Well, if they worked, the Pro Pros would ride it. I'm like, Yeah, but they. They don't know what they're, they don't believe in aerodynamics. You know, they, the pros, they don't riding [00:55:34] Randall: super skinny tires at super high pressures cuz they felt faster for a long time, even though, you know, at least, well, you know this better than than I do. I mean, the data has been saying for quite some time that it's more efficient. Never mind the accumulated fatigue that you get when your body's just being, you know, rattled at, you know, high frequency over the course of many hours. [00:55:56] Josh: Yeah, yeah. No, it's, you know, that I would say they're quite often the last, at least as a group to change. Right. But you, you are seeing it now. I mean the, you know, and, and, and you know, the team like Nios hiring a guy, hiring Dan Bigham to come in and, you know, you, you are seeing some changes, right? Uh, that when teams are bringing full-time people like that in, um, we are gonna start moving the needle there, but it's still a delicate dance with the. With the UCI and, and all the sport governing bodies, right? Nobody, You hear it all the time. Nobody wants a repeat of the whole fna. Uh, I don't follow swimming, but I was the technical, uh, committee director for cycling at the World Federation of Sporting Good Industries. And, uh, at the time when FNA Band banned all of the super tight, uh, swimming suits, and it was just a cluster, right? I mean, they just came out and said, Nope, you've pushed it too far. We're done. And if the whole industry was sideways with like, we've invested millions of dollars in this and the records are breaking, and people wanted and on and on and on, and they just said, Nope, you're done. And, uh, I think it took them five years to under undo all that damage. You know, I mean, you just wanna [00:57:11] Randall: something parallel with running too with, uh, carbon fiber insoles and like what is, what is allowed in terms of the amount of spring that can be delivered and so on. Um, Yeah, I, I see, I see them showing up on my local run. And, um, I might have to get a set just to keep up with the people I used to beat, to keep up with [00:57:29] Josh: It's totally true. [00:57:31] Randall: Uh, that's, I mean, that's, that's, to some degree, that's the nature of the game. And that's why in, in significant part, that's why the gear is as good as it is right now is because, you know, people are looking for, as you would say, those marginal gains. Um, yeah. Um, I wanna dive in. So, uh, I want to put, bring in a few, uh, listener questions. Uh, so we posted in the ridership that you were gonna be coming on, and so we had some folks asking questions there. Probably the biggest one that came up was, um, talking about, you know, we've, uh, Craig and I brought up the rule of 1 0 5 or 5% on the podcast before, but, you know, citing, citing it, it's not a deep understanding, uh, at all. So tell us about how that emerged in. How it applies. Um, you know, particularly in the gravel scene where you're looking at tires that are much bigger. Um, and I mentioned, uh, earlier that, you know, specialized as a video for their reval wheels where they're running a a 42 mill tire on i, I think a 35 or less external rim, and they're claiming some arrow benefit. Does that seem plausible? Is there, uh, given, given, given what you have seen in the wind tunnel and in your modeling? [00:58:41] Josh: Yeah. Um, yeah, it's totally plausible and I guess, we'll, we'll start with rule of one. Oh, so rule 1 0 5 was really, you know, I, I realized pretty early in my career that you had to come up with sort of rules of thumb for things or nobody would listen to you Mm-hmm. and, you know, spent two years traveling Europe trying to sell Arrow. Sell World Tour or pro tour at the time, uh, directors and team owners on aerodynamics and you know, I mean literally got thrown out of every single team, team over there. Uh, I mean, it was just, we just got laughed out of the room. Just imagine [00:59:20] Randall: any of those team directors could have just adopted it at that time and had this huge advantage and didn't, [00:59:26] Josh: uh, that was, I mean, I always said, you know, Uli at srm, thank God, you know, he was developing his thing. And when I walked in to pitch Reese, um, he was alrea

The Wrestling Memory Grenade
Episode 65: WWF 1987 February TV - Honky Smashes Jake, Hulk/Andre Contract Signing

The Wrestling Memory Grenade

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 12, 2022 131:07


 In Episode #65 we talk the Hulk/Andre Contract Signing, Honky Tonk Man BLASTS Jake "The Snake" with a Guitar, The WrestleMania 3 Card, Bruno Sammartino in action, Hacksaw Duggan Arrives, Piper Retiring, Brutus gets a Haircut, The Macho/Steamboat Saga continues, Haynes vs. Bundy, and SO MUCH MORE including Soundbites Galore! Available everywhere your Podcast Streaming needs are met.Visit our Podcast Network https://wrestlecopia.comFollow us on Twitter @RasslinGrenade and be automatically entered into our FREE PRIZE GIVEAWAY CONTESTS!Follow and LIKE our FACEBOOK PAGE located at https://www.facebook.com/RasslinGrenadeSubscribe to our Youtube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/RasslinGrenade as we continue to add new videos from throughout wrestling history.Please Subscribe to our REVAMPED Patreon account to help keep us going, a dozen Tiers to choose from!!! https://www.patreon.com/wrestlecopiaIncludes a $5 “All Access” Tier featuring SIX GIFTS FOR $5! Including our Patreon Watch-Along Series, all of Ray Russell's insanely detailed show notes (for both the Grenade and Monday Warfare), unedited TR SHOCKS episodes, Early Show Releases, REMASTERED editions of the early Grenade episodes including NEW content that was originally edited out! PLUS, now a sixth gift of monthly DIGITAL DOWLOANDS for your viewing and reading pleasure!Listen at your leisure and pick back up later if need be! Timestamps below for easy navigation.WWF PRIME TIME WRESTLING FEBRUARY 16, 1987Enjoy Soundbites Galore, of hosts Gorilla Monsoon & Bobby "The Brain" Heenan! The duo discuss topics including Andre the Giant joining the Heenan Family, The Hulk/Andre Saga, WrestleMania 3, the Hercules/Haynes feud, and King Kong Bundy making "Midget H'orderves". Plus, Gorilla interview Dr. of Style, Slick and Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat. WWF TV – Weekend of FEBRUARY 21st & 22nd, 1987 (00:20:33)The Honky Tonk Man BLASTS Jake "The Snake" Roberts with his GUITAR on the Snake Pit set. We talk the Honky/Jake angle and host Ray Russell breaks it down from both men's perspectives. Did Honky REALLY injure Jake, or was it all a work? New Tag Champs The Hart Foundation face The Islanders."Natural" Butch Reed takes on George "The Animal" Steele. We have our first WrestleMania Report! Ricky Steamboat faces Chic Donovan! Koko B. Ware has an altercation with Butch Reed. The Bulldogs & Tito Santana sign a Contract for WM3.  Action featuring the likes of Billy Jack Haynes, "King" Harley Race, The Dream Team, Koko B. Ware, Junkyard Dog, Barry O, Don Muraco, Bob Orton, and more! Soundbites & promos from Hulk Hogan, Roddy Piper, Billy Jack Haynes, "Macho Man" Randy Savage, Bobby Heenan, and Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat. Plus, "Rowdy" Roddy Piper talks RETIREMENT!  WWF PRIME TIME WRESTLING FEBRUARY 23, 1987 (01:05:42)Even more Soundbites from Gorilla & Bobby Heenan as they talk the upcoming Hogan/Andre Contract Signing, Roddy Piper Retiring, The Islanders, George Steele being the cornerman for Steamboat at WrestleMania 3, and more. We'll also hear Mean Gene with a WrestleMania 3 Report as he talks mystery managers??? We discuss Referee Rita Marie and unruly fans picking fights with Haku. Plus, The Brain has FAR too much fun with "Midget" Jokes this week!WWF TV – Weekend of FEBRUARY 28th & MARCH 1st, 1987 (01:26:06)It's the HULK HOGAN/ANDRE THE GIANT CONTRACT SIGNING. Billy Jack Haynes battles King Kong Bundy. It's our very first "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan vignette, as Duggan promises to clean up the WWF. "Living Legend" Bruno Sammartino steps into the ring vs. Nikolai Volkoff. Tito Santana & The Bulldogs enter Piper's Pit. Danny Davis gets physical. The celebrities come out for WrestleMania 3 as Bob Uecker and Mary Hart appear. Hogan hates French? Who's Zoomin Who? Jimmy Powers returns. Hercules enters The Snake Pit. Action featuring the likes of IC Champ "Macho Man" Randy Savage, the Rougeau Brothers, Honky Tonk Man, Kamala, Tag Champion The Hart Foundation, "King" Harley Race, Koko B. Ware, and more. Soundbites & promos from Hulk Hogan, Ricky Steamboat, Honky Tonk Man, George "The Animal" Steele, The Rougeaus, Billy Jack Haynes, Hillbilly Jim with his "Little Buddies" Haiti Kid & Little Beaver, and more. Plus, 6-Man Tag action with The Can-Am Connection & Lanny Poffo vs. The Dream Team & Adrian Adonis. Brutus does some struttin', but it's Adonis who does the cuttin'.. to the displeasure of Beefcake!!! ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Barks Remarks - a Carl Barks Podcast
47 - the Great Steamboat Race

Barks Remarks - a Carl Barks Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 10, 2022 54:00


Guest Host: Warren Harmon Time to head back to the Mississippi, listeners! Don't be a dog in the manger, join us for this episode, where we cover "the Great Steamboat Race," one several of Barks' competition/race stories. This jaunty adventure features Horseshoe Hogg, who refreshingly, is a foil but not a true villain. It also includes some great Junior Woodchuck ingenuity and some fun running gags, so check it out!

THE PAYOFF
PILLMAN & STEAMBOAT! Brian Pillman v Ricky Steamboat @ Halloween Havoc '92

THE PAYOFF

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 10, 2022 29:56


Tom and Jeff do a deep dive into this fun match!

Colorado Real Estate Podcast
Calculating Taxes, Steamboat Springs Short Term Rentals, & The Barbarian/Airbnb Movie

Colorado Real Estate Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 4, 2022 17:06


On todays show we go over tax implications for property owners, what you need to know about Airbnb in Steamboat Springs, and the new Barbarian movie, a horror movie about an Airbnb. For more information visit https://www.erinandjamesrealestate.com

Sunday Night's Main Event
SNME 248 (Free Edition) - Antonio Inoki, Mo Jabari, Andrade, Steamboat, More!

Sunday Night's Main Event

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 3, 2022 46:00 Very Popular


This week, we take a look back at the incredible contributions, experiments, and legacy of the legendary Antonio Inoki.   Mike McGuire is joined by Dave Meltzer from the Wrestling Observer and the two talk about Inoki's biggest gambles, his innovations to the business, and of course, the match against Muhammad Ali.   Daniel Cormier is a BIG fan of professional wrestling, and is headed to WWE to referee the Fight Pit match between Rollins and Riddle - is this the gateway to getting Cormier/Lesnar in WWE? Also, Dave and Mike discuss the announcement that Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat is returning to the ring to tag with FTR, and whether or not this means Ric Flair will want one last, last match.   Andrade El Idolo is hinting that he's unhappy in AEW - does a virtually non-existent build to a "career vs. mask" match against The Dark Order's "10" signify his exit from the company?   Also, fresh from surviving a match against "The Nigerian Giant", Omos, Alberta's Mo Jabari, who wrestled as "Greg Lester" talks about the experience of being on Raw in front of millions, being under the guidance of Lance Storm and Bret "Hitman" Hart, and his involvement in Dungeon Wrestling, which has another star-studded card coming up at the end of the month in October.

Smacked Raw Podcast
BSCS: Flair vs Steamboat | Botched Spots and Chair Shots | S2:E57

Smacked Raw Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 29, 2022 102:44


Will, Bobby and Allison sit down to break down one of the most iconic rivalries in wrestling. They sort of do this, end up spending an hour talking about a war Bobby started on TikTok. They do eventually get there with the conversation discussing the matches, the titles and what made Flair and Steamboat such a historic rivalry.   Listen now, out on all platforms!!!

Prestigious Minds
11. Cornelius "Commodore" Vanderbilt sets out on his own steamboat operation

Prestigious Minds

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 27, 2022 29:12


After Thomas Gibbons dies, his son, William Gibbons, takes over handling all of the businesses and assets of the Gibbons family. Less than two years later William puts up the entire steamboat operation for sale at $400,00 without consulting Vanderbilt. However, there were no buyers, so operations continued a little while longer as Vanderbilt planned his next move. Subscribe https://prestigiousminds.captivate.fm/listen (here) for FREE on your platform of choice! We would appreciate it if you would leave us a five star review on Spotify or apple podcasts! If you want more history, but with pictures to go along with the story go check out our Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Go tag us in a post and tell us your favorite brew of choice, or for those of you who prefer something else you can drop that in the comments as well! Prestigious Minds - Learn from those who did it best Website: https://prestigiousminds.captivate.fm (Prestigious Minds website) for news and updates Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pmindspod (Prestigious Minds Page) Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pmindspod/ (@pmindspod) Twitter: https://twitter.com/pmindspod (@pmindspod) Jeremiah DeWitt Copyright 2022 Jeremiah DeWitt

Story Time with Dutch Mantell
Episode #19 - Dutch on Wrestling: Ricky Steamboat's return to the ring, AEW Grand Slam, strangest places he ever wrestled

Story Time with Dutch Mantell

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 23, 2022 92:24


DUTCH MANTELL NOW HAS HIS OWN YOUTUBE CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/c/StoryTimewithDutchMantell If you want YOUR question answered by the Dirty Dutchman, then email to: questionsfordutch@gmail.com After a busy week in the wrestling world, Dirty Dutch is sharing his thoughts about some of the AEW Grand Slam results, Ricky Steamboat announcing his return t the ring at the age of 69 and what is was like to wrestle the wrestling legend back in the day.  He will also touch on the return of Braun Strowman and who many think might be behind the recent White Rabbit vignettes on WWE shows,  War Games, Kurt Angle's admitted memory problems.  And stay tuned for some great stories about how many miles Dutch has traveled on the road and the strange but true places he has wrestled! WSI | Wresting Shoot Interviews on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/WSIWrestlingShootInterviews/ Dutch Mantell's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dutch.mantell Dutch Mantell's Twitter: https://twitter.com/dirtydutchman1 Dutch Mantell's Tales From a Dirt Road: https://www.amazon.com/dp/145644090X/ Dutch Mantell's The World According to Dutch: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1449953417/

Engines of Our Ingenuity
Engines of Our Ingenuity 2329: Thurston and Fulton

Engines of Our Ingenuity

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 23, 2022 3:49


The Lapsed Fan
Ep. 330: Coliseum Collection: Ricky 'The Dragon' Steamboat (Part 2)

The Lapsed Fan

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 22, 2022 108:47


Offbeat Oregon History podcast
Steamboat monopoly's clever coup was a big mistake

Offbeat Oregon History podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 21, 2022 7:52


Buying the connecting boat put a competitor out of business ... but left him free to use his boat to eat their lunch on an even more lucrative steamboat route. (Cascade Locks, Multnomah County; 1880s) (For text and pictures, see http://offbeatoregon.com/o1110e-steamboat-monopoly-clever-coup-cost-them-plenty.html)

The Lapsed Fan
Ep. 330: Coliseum Collection: Ricky 'The Dragon' Steamboat (Part 1)

The Lapsed Fan

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 21, 2022 294:56


Engines of Our Ingenuity
Engines of Our Ingenuity 2326: More on Steam Warships

Engines of Our Ingenuity

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 18, 2022 3:50


Episode: 2326 Emerging from the muddle of war to invent the modern steam vessel.  Today, ocean warships struggle to come of age.

The Adventure Stache
Meg Fisher, Paralympic Gold medalist and professional cyclist

The Adventure Stache

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 16, 2022 81:15 Very Popular


When Meg Fisher went to college, she was a walk-on for the University of Montana's Division 1 tennis team, but was taken out of the sport and the life she knew when a catastrophic car accident left her in a coma. When her leg was amputated, it was the least of her doctors' worries. Most of them assumed that she would never be able to live independently, let alone walk, but Meg proved them (and herself) wrong, earning a Doctorate in Physical Therapy and becoming a 3x triathlon world champion and a multi-medal winning Paralympian at the 2012 and 2016 Games. More recently, she's been focused on bringing paracycling categories to gravel races and expanding resources for physically impaired people in under-served countries. In this conversation, Meg tells Payson about marking the 20th anniversary of the crash, accidentally melting one of her prosthetic legs at Rebecca's Private Idaho, and why she attributes "everything in her life" to a cattle dog named Betsy. She also talks about how meaningful it has been to be recognized within the cycling community, and being overcome with emotion when her teammates from the 2012 Paralympic Games came to cheer her on at Steamboat this year. 

Engines of Our Ingenuity
Engines of Our Ingenuity 2322: The Steam Navy

Engines of Our Ingenuity

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 16, 2022 3:50


Episode: 2322 Civilians and the making of the steam-powered U.S. Navy.  Today, pruning hooks into spears.

The Mississippi Valley Traveler Podcast
6. Twin Tragedies: Cholera and Fire Devastate St. Louis in 1849

The Mississippi Valley Traveler Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 14, 2022 24:51


In 1849, St. Louisans must have wondered what they had done so wrong to deserve suffering through two terrible tragedies. Steamboats brought cholera to the city, triggering a deadly epidemic that would ultimately kill thousands of people. In the early waves of the epidemic, a steamboat fire on the levee got out of control and quickly spread on land. While only three people died in the fire, the central part of the city was devastated. In this episode of the Mississippi Valley Traveler podcast, I describe how these two events unfolded and the impact they had on the booming city.

The Walking Dead Talk Through
TWDTT 143 – TOTWD – Dee (S1E3)

The Walking Dead Talk Through

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 10, 2022 108:50


For episode 143 of The Walking Dead Talk Through, Kyle, LT, and Brian talk through Tales of The Walking Dead Season 1, Episode 3 titled Dee. It was written by Channing Powell and directed by Michael E. Satrazemis. A story of Dee's evolution. Dee must revisit her violent past in order to protect her child.

Talk Through Media All-Inclusive Feed
TWDTT 143 – TOTWD – Dee (S1E3)

Talk Through Media All-Inclusive Feed

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 10, 2022 108:50


For episode 143 of The Walking Dead Talk Through, Kyle, LT, and Brian talk through Tales of The Walking Dead Season 1, Episode 3 titled Dee. It was written by Channing Powell and directed by Michael E. Satrazemis. A story of Dee's evolution. Dee must revisit her violent past in order to protect her child.

I Like Wrestling
The (Mr.) Perfect Match

I Like Wrestling

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 1, 2022 56:11


Matt and Rachel break down what makes for a “perfect” wrestling match and they revisit some of the contenders from classics like Steamboat vs. Savage and Nakamura vs Zayn to underrated gems like Molly Holly vs. Victoria in a Hair vs Hair at Wrestlemania. The ILW universe weighs in with their picks as well!Matt has a new favorite wrestler in Luigi Primo, Best Pizza Chef and he is appalled to hear Rachel refer to The Rock as “the epitome of 90s era grunge.” Rachel educates Matt about Cherry, they finally agree on a mutual dislike of Johnny Gargano and Rachel tells us who is the Jane Austen of professional wrestling. FOLLOW US ON SOCIALS:TWITTER @ilwpodINSTAGRAM @ilwpodTIKTOK @mattvogel5 and @ilwpod#ilikewrestlingpod

Army of Smarkness
Episode 6: Flair vs. Steamboat Trilogy

Army of Smarkness

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 1, 2022 72:03


The Turner/Herd era is having its best year. Business is good and we're about to witness the best trilogy in wrestling history. Join the guys as they review the Flair and Steamboat trilogy from 1989! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/army-of-smarkness/support

Today in the History of Freedom
Episode 26: The Steamboat

Today in the History of Freedom

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 26, 2022 3:11


Because what else would Willie ride on?

Mi Duole Cycling Podcast
Race Reports: Leadville & Steamboat

Mi Duole Cycling Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 25, 2022 59:06


After a big weekend of racing at some pretty rad events we thought it would be fun to hear some race reports. These are coming from both Leadville: Stu, Chip, Jesse and Taylor.  We are also hearing about Steamboat Springs Gravel: Dave Sharp and Cherell Jordin.  Enjoy the recaps of these events. 

Grid Penalty: A Formula 1 Podcast for Everybody

Week three of the Summer Break and our boys are getting wild. Bottas wins a bike race in Steamboat, Kimi Raikkonen comes out of retirement for NASCAR, and we talk about Spa next week. Plus, Brent's appearance on The Smoking Tire with his Corvette BMW. Follow our hosts @iambrentgill @geoffreytice and our producer @korecording

FasCat Cycling Training Tips Podcast
Euro Road vs US Gravel with Coach Ricky Arnopol

FasCat Cycling Training Tips Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 19, 2022 62:00


Fresh off pro racing in Europe on the road this summer, Coach Ricky Arnopol joined five of his Project Echelon teammates at SBT GRVL, the big gravel race in Steamboat Springs, Colorado. On this episode, Ricky and show cohost Ben Delaney talk about the similarities and differences between the two styles of racing in terms of tactics, power numbers, stress, and fun. There are four distances at SBT GRVL, and Ben won the 100-mile Blue course in the men's division, with Tiffany Cromwell of Canyon-SRAM taking the women's Blue title. Keegan Swenson and Lauren De Crescenzo won the 140-mile Black race that Ricky participated in. You can see Ben's power file and analysis up on fascatcoaching.com now. The whole FasCat team who attended SBT GRVL had a great time, so much so that we have even bigger plans for 2023, when we hope that you can join us in Steamboat for long weekend. Further, we are cooking up an SBT gravel training camp for next year, likely in June.   Check out www.fascatcoaching.com and use code 25PODCAST for 25% off.   Follow us on Instagram for training tips: @fascatcoaching

WhatCulture Wrestling
AEW Dynamite Preview - Is Kenny Omega Returning? Ricky 'The Dragon' Steamboat On Dynamite! Toni Storm Vs. KiLynn King! What Next For Jon Moxley & CM Punk?!

WhatCulture Wrestling

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 17, 2022 49:52 Very Popular


Adam and the Dadley Boyz preview tonight's AEW Dynamite and discuss...Is Kenny Omega returning?Ricky 'The Dragon' Steamboat on Dynamite!Toni Storm vs. KiLynn King!Varsity Blonds challenge Gunn Club!What next for Jon Moxley & CM Punk?!ENJOY!Follow us on Twitter:@AdamWilbourn@MichaelHamflett@MSidgwick@WhatCultureWWEFor more awesome content, check out: whatculture.com/wwe Our GDPR privacy policy was updated on August 8, 2022. Visit acast.com/privacy for more information.

Cycling in Alignment with Colby Pearce
Nathan Haas: I Am Not a Bike Racer - Ep86

Cycling in Alignment with Colby Pearce

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 16, 2022 117:07


This episode of Cycling in Alignment is a conversation with gravel superstar Nathan Haas. It is technically a CARPOD, as we are driving to Steamboat, Colorado for the latest stop on Nathan's calendarNathan explains why FTP is stupid, and what he means when he says he is not a bike racer.    We also talk about Nathan's relationship with his sponsors, including Colnago and Castelli, and how the project came together to make five new kits to match five new bikes for him to ride this season. It's a showcase of the abilities of Colnago to paint gorgeous bikes, and for Castelli to make perfectly matching, gorgeous kits, while both platforms can enjoy a canvas unencumbered by logo placements or design restrictions typically found when working with an athlete of Nathan's caliber. Have a look at the photos below for shots of kits one through four. Number five will be revealed at UCI Gravel Worlds later this year.  Nathan's insight for each of the Jerseys Jersey 1: The Full Circle - Inspired by my phases of cycling, this jersey is to tell a story of my journey so far, from MTB, to Road to now beginning on gravel. The radar that links to the center of the jersey has drawn each phase, staring with the outermost circle (part circle) being my MTB career, the middle circle, the biggest of them the Road career, and the small red slither, the start of a circle is my time on gravel The texture dots in the jersey are actually an illustration of all my race days in all sports, with certain dots being in colors representing either wins, podiums, team mate wins or special races like the TDF and world championships. ––––––––––––––––– Jersey 2: Kansas- Art Decor. We looked at Kansas and asked, what is it famous for? Nothing really.  But we loved the state flag colors and thought it would be a fun way to bring back the art decor era of colnago and their Master olympic bike. The jersey was built around the bike, in the colors of the state flag with the state motto on. Plus, we called the jersey, the Wizard of Aus. Great pun.  ––––––––––––––––– Jersey 3: DOPAMINE - Designed to be raced in Iceland against the grey scale of the black earth and grey skies, Dopamine was to be the excitatory neuron of the race. Inspired yet again by the full circle concept, as my season had begun to build and my time in gravel, so too have the circles changed. This is a variation of the circles in motion.  ––––––––––––––––– Jersey 4: PURPLE RAIN - Again another variation of circles, this time, in the form of blurred color droplets that cause a blur throughout the jersey to give a fluid effect, whilst staying true to the full circle philosophy. It's all a story building and evolving.  --------- Don't forget to go to https://cycling.endurobearings.com your exclusive Enduro Bearings discount code mentioned in the episode.  

Unlikely Explanations
The Fate of the Springs: Steamboat Springs part 6 of 6

Unlikely Explanations

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 16, 2022 30:21


Steamboat Springs finds an unlikely savior in Karl Hovelsen, or, as he was known in the United States, Carl Howelsen. He kicked off the skiing craze in Colorado that continues to this day. But the natural wonders of the area continue to be damaged by tourism and construction. Hear how local conservationists are working to stop this alarming trend.Support the show

The Gravel Ride.  A cycling podcast
Nick Marzano - 2022 Tour Divide Finisher

The Gravel Ride. A cycling podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 3, 2022 56:38 Very Popular


This week we sit down with Nick Marzano to explore his experience during the 2022 Tour Divide.  The 2022 Tour Divide began with over 200 riders following the 2,745-mile Great Divide Mountain Bike Route from north to south starting in Banff, Alberta, Canada and finishing at the US/Mexico border in Antelope Wells, New Mexico. Episode Sponsor: Trek Travel - come join The Gravel Ride Podcast crew on the November 6th trip. Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Nick Marzano [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the show, we've got Nick Marzano from Philadelphia. Here to talk to us about the tour divide. Nick recently finished the tour divide routes during the grand depart from Banff, Canada, and made it all the way to the edge of the border of Mexico. If you don't know about the tour divide, it's roughly follows a route called the great divide mountain bike route, and it's recognized as one of the most important off pavement cycling routes in the United States of America. If not the world, the root criss crosses the continental divide from north to south, starting in Banff, Alberta, Canada, and finishing at the U S Mexico border in antelope Wells, New Mexico. I've been following the tour divide for many years. In fact, in some small part, I credit it with getting me excited. About making the transition from mountain bike, riding to gravel riding. It's an amazing accomplishment. To have achieved this event. It's 2,745 miles, and God knows how much climbing along the way. When Nick picked his head up in the ridership forum and mentioned to the community that he was doing it, I was super stoked to not only follow along. is.as he completed the route, but hear his stories along the way. It's amazing to get a firsthand account of what the tour divide experience looks like. . It varies every year, as you can imagine, with 2,745 miles. Across the United States. You've got all kinds of things to contend with. This year, there were some late season snow up in Canada. Which wreaked havoc. On the race and ended a lot of people's tour divides efforts before they even began. As you'll hear Nick persevered and had an amazing experience out there. It was a real pleasure talking to them. Before we jump into that conversation i need to thank this week sponsor trek travel You may recall last year when we had Trek on talking about the Jarana gravel bike tour, I was super excited. What you don't know is I've been talking about going on this trip since that moment in time. I'm super excited to go to Jarana this year in November, and I'm inviting you to join me. I'm going on the November 6th trip. From Trek travel just you're on a bike tour. You know, Jarana is a cycling gym. There's a reason why all the pros call it home with butter, smooth, tarmac, and perfect weather. But the road riding is just the beginning. And after that conversation with you, and I've looked at a number of routes out of Jarana and I'm super excited to get over there and experience the amazing gravel, the quiet mountain passes and the little villages of Spain. I feel like I've had this trip in my mind for. The entirety of the pandemic, and we're finally pulling it off. Trek wanted me to invite you to join me on this trip. Any of our listeners are going to get a free handlebar bag and a free pair of socks when they joined the trip. You simply head on over to Trek, travel.com and search for the Jerone gravel bike tour. It's a five day four night trip. The team over a, truck's going to handle all the logistics from the hotel to the routes. They're going to have guides on hand. It's actually one of the Trek travel service course locations. So they're gonna have a lot of beautiful track. Demani SL disc brake bikes available for us. As well as the option to bring your own, I'm super excited to get over there myself. We've got a small crew that's already signed up for this trip, but I want to invite you the listener. How amazing would it be for us to finally get together? And in Jarana of all places. I'm certainly looking forward to finally getting some dirt under my wheels in Europe, on a gravel bike. Simply visit truck travel.com. Find that you're on a gravel bike tour and make sure during booking that you mentioned, you're a gravel ride podcast listener, or a member of the ridership to get that free handlebar bag. With that said let's dive right into my conversation with nick Nick welcome to the show. [00:04:42] Nick Marzano: Hey, thanks for having me, Craig. [00:04:44] Craig Dalton: You look surprisingly refreshed considering it's not too long ago, you just completed a 2,700 mile off-road bike ride. [00:04:52] Nick Marzano: Yeah. I mean, I'm gonna rack that up to the, the food monster has been strong. The sleep monster has been strong. I've been, you know, you can indulge in both of those for, for about a solid week. I've been trying to get back to. The sleep has, has rectified itself, the, the nutrition and the food monster. I'm working on getting back to a, a normal diet. But I, yeah, I'm feeling back to a hundred percent for [00:05:15] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I gotta imagine. After an event like the tour divide, you're you just want to eat, eat, eat all day long. [00:05:22] Nick Marzano: You look sort of longingly, like whenever you pass a gas station, like, should I stop and get. 10 Snickers. Should I stop and get some little debes? But, and I typically eat pretty healthy. So it, it is kind of like no holds barred when you're, , when you're only resupplies gas stations for a few days. But yeah, trying to get back to, to some greens in my diet, some fruit [00:05:45] Craig Dalton: Nice. I've given a little bit of preamble in the intro about what the tour divide is, but it's such, it's something I've been following for, gosh, I feel like a decade and it's such an event that if the listener hasn't heard of it, you're going from Canada to Mexico. On gravel effectively, except it's pretty extreme gravel along the way. [00:06:06] Nick Marzano: Yeah, that's, that's pretty much, it, it is mostly dirt. There's some paved sections and this year. I think more than prior years, there were more paved sections because of the initially we were all looking at the, at the black fire in, in New Mexico and, and a couple of other fires that cropped up that forced some some reroutes on pavement. But we made up, we more than made up for that in difficulty with late season snow on the mountain paths in Canada, and then early season monsoons when we hit New Mexico. So it, the route looked a little different this year than it has in years past. Once you hit around New Mexico. But it was still very challenging and a lot of fun. It was very beautiful. [00:06:43] Craig Dalton: With a 2,700 mile plus route, we've got a lot of ground to cover, but as you know, I always like to start off by just learning a little bit more about your background. As a cyclist. And when you discovered gravel cycling and then let's get into, like, when did the tour divide creep into your mind as something you wanted to do? [00:07:01] Nick Marzano: Yeah, it was kind of a rapid progression. So I was a, I'm a, I'm a COVID gravel bike baby around July, 2020. I had, I had wanted to get some kind of, you know, I didn't know the terminology for it until I started researching. I wanted to get something that would, that would allow me to get offroad. I had a hybrid single speed that I had used to try to keep up with people who were doing road rides every now and then if I was on vacation, I used it for commuting almost daily. It was just like a red line, 20 Niner hybrid kicking around Philadelphia. It was great. Did you know, I would, I did like one alley cat race with it. At some point in Philly just used it for ridiculous purposes, but mostly, mostly commuting. And then around 2020, I wanted to transition into something with maybe a little, a little bit of gearing and got my first gravel bike really started listening to, you know, in the research came, wanted to, to find community and, and find some advice and came across the gravel ride podcast. Pretty soon after that. And immediately started signing up for, you know, signed up for like a 60 mile race nearby here to see if, if racing was, was something that was into, I don't remember when the concept of bike packing got a hold of me, but it was pretty quick because by the fall of that of 2020. I was, I, I, I definitely roped a couple of buddies into a 60 mile bike pack trip out to just like an overnight or out to French Creek, state park, which I know you're, I think you're familiar with, from your time out [00:08:31] Craig Dalton: absolutely. [00:08:33] Nick Marzano: Yeah. So it ramped up from there. The following year. I, we had a vacation my partner and I had a vacation planned for the finger lakes. And I said, well, why don't I try to take the long route? I've been reading a lot about bike packing. Let me meet you up at the finger lakes. And I'm gonna take a four day trip and try to link together forest roads and some rail trails that will kind of take me from near Philly up to the New York finger lakes and had fun building that route. Learned a lot, you know, about gear learned a lot about you know, how to plan resupply, how to plan, how long could I make it? I had, I had not done a, I don't believe a, a century ride at that point or had only done one century ride. So figuring out that I could link together, you know, a hundred mile days was kind of a revelation I had planned for six days. I did it in three and change. [00:09:28] Craig Dalton: Yeah, it's kind of hard, like, you know, two things there, one, like it's unusual that you have all day to ride, right? So who knows how long they can ride when they have all day to ride. And two, when you're loaded down on the bike, it's a totally different factor, right? You don't know how long can I ride with a fully loaded bike? [00:09:48] Nick Marzano: totally. Yeah. So , you know, and I, and I had sort of under I conservatively booked each of those days I had put out a sort of an itinerary for myself for six days and was really conservative and realized the other, the other concept with solo bike packing is you get to camp at the end of A long day. And if you're not worn out, you really, you don't wanna get to camp at, at six o'clock seven o'clock, there's nothing to do. You know, I'm fine with solo time. But I think I got into one campsite around like four o'clock and was just sort of twiddling my thumbs for the rest of the night. So I knew, you know, I was capable of, of pushing a little bigger and I can go, I can go further, but I kind of went down, you know, from there. Every couple of months, I would pick an event or design something where I would like add one new challenge to that. And so quickly from 2020, I kind of ramped up in that way. Let me, let me pick a new challenge to sort of add complexity to what I've been doing. Add racing into the mix, add cold weather, camping into the mix. Add, you know, you add rain and, and riding in the elements pretty quickly when you're linking big days. Yeah. And that, you know, Where are we at two years later? I feel like I've got a, a pretty good amount of experience under my belt and at least, you know, 2,600 more miles from the, the tour of divide, [00:11:05] Craig Dalton: And had you, had you had an a background with endurance athletics prior to coming to cycling? [00:11:10] Nick Marzano: Your, you know, your normal running events around Philly, do the broad street run and the Philadelphia marathon a couple of times. But it, it kills my knees. And so I knew. While I still run for just bone health and, and a little cross training that was part of the reason, you know, I wanted to get a bike in 2020 cuz I was I'm. I was pushing 40 at that point. I'm I'm now over 40 and, and wanted something that I could do much longer than I think I'll be able to do running event. [00:11:37] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Do you recall when the tour divide first came into your, your head? [00:11:43] Nick Marzano: Yeah. Yeah, so things ramped up after that finger lakes trip pretty quickly. I reached out to, I reached out to Nelson trees who, who runs the silk road, mountain race and the Atlas mountain race and asked him if I could get a last minute sign up for the Atlas mountain race that. Which is ridiculous and was probably not the right next challenge. If I'm, you know, I've talked about adding sort of stepwise challenges that would've been probably a little out of my wheelhouse, but he accepted my application and I was set to go and it got, it got canceled at the last minute, which worked out perfectly. Because I ended up going to Virginia for something called the trans Virginia five 50. Where I met this great community of bike Packers. It was a much more it's about the same length. It's a little shorter than Atlas mountain. The, the elevation really, and the, the difficulty is, you know, we'll see, I'm going to Atlas next February. We'll see if, if this checks out, but it it's a pretty difficult race. And the elevation is. Not exactly comparable, but it's, it's pretty hefty. So it was a great challenge, nonetheless, and I, you know, more importantly, I met this great community, which gets to, you know, the answer to your question is around December the organizer of the trans Virginia, five 50 Dave Landis reached out to a bunch of us and said, Hey, I'm setting aside the time I'm doing tour divide. Does anybody want to get a little training group together? Anybody who might wanna put this on their, on their calendar? And I think it was like a week after that I talked to my boss at work and said, I've been here 10 years. Can I link together PTO and, and take a month off. This is really important to me. And, and he's great. You know, my company's great. They, they said we support you completely take the time. And, and then I was, I was in, [00:13:31] Craig Dalton: That's amazing. Yeah, I think it's one of the things that as the listener does some research about tour divide and realizes like you really need to have a month long block of time available unless you're one of the elite elite athletes that might be able to do it in half a month. But that that in and of itself is a huge challenge. Let alone just the logistics of planning, your equipment, your nutrition, your pacing, everything else that goes into it. So you, you sign up for the event you graciously get the time off from your employer. You're ready to go in your mind. What type of preparation did you need to do? Obviously you've been doing some of these bike packing races at that point. You'd kind of presumably ironed out a lot of the equipment questions you might have had of what works for you. What type of bags, et cetera, but with a 2,700 mile race over the tour divide based out of Philly, what did you feel like you needed to do to prepare for that start? [00:14:29] Nick Marzano: The one of the very first things I did was get Kurt re Schneider had a, had a sale on his, just like PDF six month training guide. And a lot of people use that for the tour of divide. If you're looking for a place to start, I totally recommend it. I didn't work directly with Kurt, although I got a chance to meet him briefly at, at a. A training ride in, in April and thank him for, for putting that guide together. It was just great to have a framework. So that training framework started in January. It very quickly and. You know, I got a full swift set up because Philly winters are, are really rough and I couldn't get out early enough to not have ice on the road or, or tons of salt on the road. So I, and I was also recovering. I was nursing an injury that I, we can gloss over for now, but a, an injury from a fall on a, on a November bike packing trip that I took with the, the Virginia crew. So, yeah, it was, it was trainer straight through February. I, I started researching gear the Virginia crew and actually another guy out of, out of Philly who, who had also done that trans Virginia race. So I consider him part of that Virginia crew, but we were able to ride together once you know, once we got into late February, March. And that was it. I mean, I, I planned the schedule. I, I did. You know, picking up new equipment. I picked up a, a salsa cutthroat. My first gravel bike was a GT grade and it didn't really have the tire clearance for the sort of mud I knew we would get into or, or for the comfort that I knew I would need. So, it wasn't cheap and there are a lot of barriers to entry that, you know, I, I feel very privileged to have been able to get a second bike that quickly and and get the time off work. But at that point, nothing was really gonna stop me. It was it, you know, that once we all got very dialed on that goal and, [00:16:12] Craig Dalton: do feel like that cutthroat it's if, if you don't want to think about it, there's just so many people who have used that bike that it's kind of a no brainer to go down that road route. If you have the option of getting a new bike for it. [00:16:24] Nick Marzano: totally, [00:16:26] Craig Dalton: I don't wanna get too much into the specific training plan, but I'm just curious, like, were you encouraged to do a bunch of overnights, a bunch of big back to back days? How were you fitting this into your normal work life? [00:16:41] Nick Marzano: Yeah, a lot of it was waking up, you know, 5:00 AM jump on the trainer and it was typically one to two hour rides. Throughout the week, there would be a couple of two hour like high intensity efforts. But it was really just getting that time on the bike and, and doing the base level plan that, that Kurt provides. Then yeah, he does build in, he starts to build in, you know, back to backs. I looked for events like the one in, in April that I mentioned where I met, you know, I got to meet Kurt himself there which was another Virginia part of the Virginia endurance series, like a 250 mile overnighter called rockstar gravel. Which is great, but they, yeah. Other than that, you know, worked with my buddy, Tim, who was the, the gentleman in, in Philly, who I was training with and lined up some more overnights to French Creek and just did our best to find as much elevation and as much gravel as we could around here. That was, that was about it. I mean, the, the timing lined up in life where I, I was able to put a lot of time in the saddle Re it was the, the, the dur during the week rides were really it was really just about jumping on the bike as soon as, as soon as I got up. And, and as long as I did that, it was pretty easy to fit to, to my schedule. [00:17:55] Craig Dalton: When you were riding outdoors, were you always riding fully loaded? [00:18:00] Nick Marzano: No there, that really came closer to the like a month before, maybe a month and a half before there were a bunch of fully loaded ride. [00:18:08] Craig Dalton: Yeah, so to give the listener some perspective and it doesn't have to be precise, but when your bike is not loaded, how much did it weigh? And when you had your full tour divide kit on it, how much did it weigh? [00:18:21] Nick Marzano: So I know it's it's about 21 pounds with nothing else on it. No water, just dry weight with everything on it. I'm estimating also dry weight. No, not counting water. Based on I use air table to kind of just roll up the extra gear that I'm I'm putting on there. I think it was somewhere in the 45 pound range. Dry. Yeah. [00:18:41] Craig Dalton: got it. And as you're thinking about the tour divide, and you're starting on the start line in Canada, what type of mentality did you have with respect to sleep? Obviously, like there's all different ways of going about this and, and it may have very well evolved and changed along the way, but I'm curious as you mapped out, like what your experience was gonna look like I imagine you had a number of days goal in mind. How did that play out? And what was your thought process around. How much you were gonna sleep. [00:19:12] Nick Marzano: Yeah, I knew early on. So I had, I, I wanted to experience one of the, the, the big things I hadn't done, I'd ridden through the night, I'd ridden into like midnight 1:00 AM on the trans Virginia, five 50, but I'd never gotten through the night to see if I was capable of that. What does that feel like? And I used that training ride that rockstar gravel two 50, you know, one of my goals was I may not be competitive in this sort of way, but I'm gonna ride through the night. And I, I did it in, you know, a full push. In like a day and a half, which felt, you know, rough. But I it also didn't feel that bad. I knew, I knew that weapon was there if I wanted to use it. But the tort divide, you know, is a very different race than a 250 mile race. So I knew I wouldn't pull that out unless I was feeling awesome in the third week. And my goal was somewhere between. December before I started training, it was 23 days is what I put in the, the initial sign up. And by the end of that training, I, I was getting a little cocky and had, had posted 19 days as my goal on track leaders. I never, the like the sleep, the sleep thing was always going to be somewhere in the four to six hour mark for the majority of the race. [00:20:21] Craig Dalton: Okay. [00:20:22] Nick Marzano: And I can talk, I'm glad to talk about sleep system. I think that's kind of a lesson learned on that if you want, but yeah, that was the expectation was I wasn't going to crush myself on sleep deprivation and then you know, blow up early on and, and not be, I mean, finishing the race was so much more important than finishing the race in 19. [00:20:40] Craig Dalton: Yep. And so with that mindset around six hours of sleep a day or an evening were you riding that whole time other than resupply and things like that? Or is that sort of saying like, I'm gonna ride, I'm gonna stop and have a lunch. I'm gonna maybe take a nap. I'm gonna ride some more. How did, how did you kind of think about it? [00:20:58] Nick Marzano: it. So the way that I thought about it, oh, well, see, like there were days where this, this thinking didn't play out, but the way I thought of it was I'm gonna ride when I'm not resupplying and when I'm not sleeping. And it was when I looked back at my my data, it, it was more in the like four to five hours a night sort of range. Where that sort of, where that changed is I had a, we, I took a knee for a day as a lot of rider did just before getting into seal lake, there was a big peak Richmond peak that already had one to two feet of snow pack on it. And a, as some of your listeners may have read if they were keeping up with the tour divide, the first few days in Canada, they got hit with another major snowstorm. A lot of riders were airlifted. I came into, into the other side of Richmond peak, a little town called con Montana, soaking wet, and most of my kit was wet. So I took a day because I didn't feel comfortable going up in a snowstorm. So that was a complete day off the bike. Fill out rest. And then there was another day, right around Pinedale, which is about halfway through the race famously where you dump your bear spray, where you're out of grizzly country. Just before Pinedale, I had kind of, I hit a low point and I talked about that a little bit with that was right around the time I talked to Patrick at bikes or death and considered taking an entire other day off the bike and basically taking myself out of race mode entirely. I didn't, but I took some shorter days. and then the closer I got to, you know, once I hit Colorado got into New Mexico, I really found my stride again and was hitting some like 1 50, 200 mile days, which was kind of my expectation going in that I was gonna try to pound like one 50 to 200 a day resupply real quick and then, and then head to bed. So I deviated from that for sure. And it was, it, it was rejuvenating. And I, you know, if I, if I needed to take that time, I needed to take. but that, that was certainly not the plan going into it. [00:22:52] Craig Dalton: Yeah. So impressive. Stepping back for a second. I mean, we think about registering for an event, you know, like an SBT, gravel, or an Unbound, and there's a lottery and you pay an entrance fee. Why don't you talk about what it's like to, to enter toward divide and what it actually means? [00:23:10] Nick Marzano: Yeah. It's so, it's if you've never done a grand apart before The concept is, and, and this is how the trans Virginia five 50 is as well. The concept is that there is a course director and they're going to define the rules and they'll give you more or less information. David with the trans Virginia does an incredible job of outlining what a six day, nine day, 12 day touring pace looks like and what resupply looks like. He's just, he, he, you know, reviews the course each year. He's extremely involved in that the tort divide Is similar in that it's a grand depart where they provide the course, they provide the track leaders link. Matt and Scott I think founded track leaders. And, and so they, they provide the, the tracking, but really, I think I read in the New York times article that Matt Lee calls himself, the chief disorganize or something like that as opposed to the course director they. They're not there to monitor folks along the route. They're not there's, you know, there's obviously no resupply, it's self supported. And you don't really get any information until we got the course maybe a week before. So you sign up on a Google form you, which is your letter of intent basically. And then it's radio silence until, until that GPX file drops. In this case a week before, because they had a lot of detouring to, to figure out with those fires. [00:24:31] Craig Dalton: And is that, is that why you're given the GPS file? Obviously like the root in general is known from. What was it? The the, the mountain bike divide route is the general scope of the route. But that GPX file is, Hey, here's the current up to date thing on what passes are passable, where there's fires, where there's detours. [00:24:51] Nick Marzano: Yeah. So there is the, and there's a lot of confusion on this, by the way, too. There were some riders who didn't have the, the GPX file that you need to from. It's it's posted on, on a very old forum on bike packing.net. It gets reposted into Facebook and linked. There's not, there's not necessarily an email that goes out to all of the folks who signed up on that Google forum. So you really have to be engaged in the community on Facebook and the conversation to even find the file. But it's based on the great divide mountain bike. Which was established by the adventure cycling association, you know, decades ago as a touring route and adapted for racing, you know, in the, in the early odds, late nineties. So even without the Rero for the fires there are a couple of changes that Matt Lee who's the primary course director that he's made over the years to add more challenge. There's. Infamous section early on called Coco claims, which you hit on day one, which is like a six mile section where you are just pushing your bike up boulders at what feels like a 45 degree angle for six miles five miles that is not anywhere on the ACA map. And there are a couple of changes like that here and there. So it is it's distinct, but certainly inspired by and matches up with a large portion of the GD. [00:26:15] Craig Dalton: Yeah, and I know there's a lot of information out there on the internet and people have published guides and whatnot. How researched were you in advance about how you were gonna structure your days and is it confusing on where you're gonna resupply? Are there a lot of challenges there? How much of it do you think you had a handle on versus not when you showed. [00:26:36] Nick Marzano: Man. So there. There are so many more. I can't imagine racing this back when Matt, Matt Lee and, and others were, you know, if you, if you watch the old ride the divide documentary, which I think is on Amazon prime, I, I just, I bought the DVD cuz I, I want to have a hard copy. I can't imagine what that was like these days there are. Some really good resources online. There's a good community of people who have of veterans who are sharing resupply. So you can start to piece things together. What was still overwhelming. I was knowing what it looks like when, when boots hit the ground. Every time I've tried to put together an itinerary, it falls apart on day one because I either feel stronger or I run into. You know, I didn't know how long it would take to make it through some of these snowy sections. You can look at the snow pack layer and try to estimate that and set a target for where you want to get to. But when you put boots on the ground all of that can change. So my approach, which I, I would adapt a little bit if I did this again and, and maybe do a little bit more planning and research was to plan in the morning, set a target in the morning, using the tools that I had and, and. Try to piece together where resupply was going to be day to day, rather than it just felt too overwhelming to try to map the map out. A plan early on that I had had a good feeling I would diverge from immediately. [00:27:58] Craig Dalton: What were some of those tools at your disposal? Obviously you're looking at a map. What kind of apps were you using and were, were other writers sharing information back saying, oh, it took me eight hours to get up this pass. [00:28:10] Nick Marzano: Yeah, that, I mean, that's where it gets tricky because you're, you really shouldn't be. But I think it, it happens for sure. And you can watch track one of the, the tools that is sort of available to everyone. So within the rules is you can look at track leaders and see. Oh, this person was moving at 15 miles an hour, and then they were moving at two miles an hour for about three hours over this pass. So that probably means hike a bike. [00:28:33] Craig Dalton: So are you looking at that in real time? So say you're approaching a pass. Obviously you're aware that it's a 3000 foot climb or whatever. Are you then taking a moment and saying, gosh, well, I should do a little research to see are people crawling up this thing or are people riding? [00:28:46] Nick Marzano: yeah, in some cases for sure. Yeah. And that's kind of the, the benefit, one of the benefits of being. Mid pack or, you know, a little bit behind the, the leaders is if, if so Sahi is, is struggling at three miles an hour going across something, you know, it's pretty gnarly and, and probably hike a bike. And so you can zoom in on track leaders to their history and see those dots get closer together. And that was one tool, the other tools. So the ACA does have a great map. An app that has the map with a lot of resupply information on it. And that was super useful. You just need to be really aware of where that actually lines up with the official race route and not some folks navigated with that app and were relegated because they, they missed some of the, the unique turnoffs that Matthew Lee is built in. The other tools there's, there's a number of guides from a website called one of. Where they, they list resupply. He actually provided some updates to us like a week before, or a couple of days before, once he got the the updated course from from Matthew Lee. So those resources were great. And then there, there were some things that writers share on the Facebook community ahead of time, where people have built out elevation profiles that are really useful. You can kind of get a sense Chris Ellison showed up. I think that was his name showed up at the, at, at the Y w C a in BAMF with these laminated elevation profile maps that also had the terrain type, which you, I couldn't find anywhere else. So you could see when Jeep track was coming up, because that's always going to take you longer than you think it's always gonna be mud or snow. That was really helpful in kind of planning. How fast miles would go? Nothing, nothing really in one place. If this sounds like a hodgepodge, it really was like, let me take a look at the, [00:30:30] Craig Dalton: Yeah. [00:30:30] Nick Marzano: The surface type. Let me take a look at the elevation. Let me take a look at the, you know, whatever the Gaia snow layer looks like. and let me take a look at track leaders and then piecing all of that together. You get a sense for where you could potentially make it that day. [00:30:43] Craig Dalton: It's unquestionable that you just need to continue to be adaptable along the way. And, and, and read the tea leaves, honestly, as to what's going on, you experience so many dramatic bits of weather in the north part of the country, along the way that you couldn't have expected going in, [00:30:58] Nick Marzano: Yeah, it was intense. [00:31:00] Craig Dalton: were you using then sort of a, an iPhone or a mobile phone plus a GPS computer on your bike? [00:31:06] Nick Marzano: yeah, I was following the purple line on my ere, so just, I used like really simple ere 22 X. For most of the navigation and then I had it loaded on ride with GPS as well. If I just needed more detail or, or wanted to make sure I didn't miss turns that were coming up, I [00:31:21] Craig Dalton: I've always read that the tour divide riders tend to favor that eTrex battery powered, old style GPS device versus the bike computer kind of style. [00:31:31] Nick Marzano: Yeah. Some people seemed to get along with the bike computer. No problem. I didn't have. A dynamo hub that it lit my my headlamp really well, but I didn't really trust it to charge anything. It was a little older and had a lot of miles on it and just seemed to I didn't rely on it for, for too much battery management. So I was glad to have the, even though it's it's wasteful, but I was glad to have a, you know, a bunch of spare double A's that I could just throw in the etre. [00:31:57] Craig Dalton: Yeah. For those of you who don't know, dynamo hub actually generates. And stores electricity. Right. And can power something like your headlamp? [00:32:06] Nick Marzano: Yeah, it generates it. I don't think too many of them store it, but it will you know, you can throw power to a headlamp and then, or a a transformer is probably the wrong word converter and use it to charge up a, a cash battery as well. A, a battery bank, power bank. As you go, so during the day you could be charging the bank and then you could flip a switch and have your light on as long as you're going fast enough for that light to be, to be powered. [00:32:28] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I've heard sometimes going uphill. It doesn't actually generate enough to really shine the way. [00:32:34] Nick Marzano: Yeah. I have a sine wave beacon, which I love because it has the, the converter right in it. So. On on another bike where I also have a, a dynamo in my gravel bike, it does charge my cash battery really well during the day. And then I can plug the cash battery into the, to the beacon and power it from that. And it, it SAPs so little energy that I can charge my phone on it as well. So, but yeah, if you're going less than like five miles an hour or so, you're gonna have kind of a strobe light effect until you, until you build up a little. [00:33:06] Craig Dalton: So let's jump over to that grand depart moment. Where is that? And what was the feeling like at that point? Sounds like you had a couple buddies that were there at the start line with you. [00:33:17] Nick Marzano: Yeah, that was really beautiful. It was, it was really cool to be there with, I mean, first of all, bam is, you know, you bike packing is a, is a niche sport. And to be in a place where so many people who, you know, are ready to talk gear who have been investing as much time and energy into this Are are all lining up together and you're running into them at dinner was really exciting. But then to have a group of five, five of us from the east coast who had trained together, been on rides together was really cool. We lined up at the w or Y WCA in BMF, which is the traditional starting point and it was really subdued. There was not. Presentation like Matt Lee doesn't show up. There's not a course director sendoff. We had instructions to go off in waves of about 15, I think which is different than past years where it's just, it's a grand apart. Everybody heads out at the same time. And the reason for that was that Canada parks was a little, they, they were getting a little They were advising Matt Lee that something needed to happen because of the number of people who were showing up 170 people were, were signed up and, and they were a little nervous about 170 people departing. So I think we're doing waves for the foreseeable future with tour divide. And it seemed to work really well. Nobody was there flagging us off. It was just sort of, you know, we would check and say, is it, is it time? Is it seven 20? All right. We're going everybody. And everybody. Left and, and that was it. It was the start and finish are. So anti-climatic that it's, it's you know, it kind of underscores what bike packing is all about. We're all out there to ride our own race and have, you know, an experience that's inevitably gonna be really personal. And I love that about the sort of subdued start and finish of Tor divide, especially, but a lot of, a lot of races you'll finish in the middle of the night and nobody will, nobody will be around to to welcome you in. And there's something special about that. As fun as, you know, finish lines of at parties at big gravel races can be a lot of fun too. [00:35:14] Craig Dalton: Did you have an expectation of riding with some of the members of your crew? Or was it clear that you guys were gonna be on different paces? [00:35:20] Nick Marzano: Yeah, this is where I don't, I don't know if not that I was in any sort of contention. I don't know if I'll relegate myself for this, cuz this rule is kind of unclear you can't draft for sure. And there was no drafting. But you know, we come from the east coast. We don't have Grizzlies out here and none of us were scared out of our, out of our you know, mountain bike shoes. But we. We're gonna ride. I was gonna ride together with one or two of them through grizzly country and ended up riding with, with David Landis for a large portion of it. And riding together, didn't always look like riding side by side. We would end up at the same place. Often start from the same place. He, he, for a couple of days was on a middle of the day nap schedule and I I'm not a napper, so he would. Roll off to the side of the road and then catch up with me a little bit later. But yeah, grizzly country, it was nice to have just that conversation prevents you from having to yell hay, bear all the time as you're going through those areas. [00:36:16] Craig Dalton: Yeah, that makes sense. I gotta imagine it's. Yeah, it's next to impossible to imagine that over that distance, you're gonna feel the same. Throughout the day and nights and wanna ride at the same pace. Even there, like you said, you may end up in the same places. [00:36:31] Nick Marzano: Yeah. Having like I had explicit conversations with Tim who we started. We, we did sort of our pre ride together and we were we're supposedly, we were like on the same pace we had 19 day, 20 day goals and he, he changed up his pace pretty soon wanted to ride sort of a different race, but we had had an explicit conversation early on. We're each gonna ride our own race and if it works to ride together, great, if not, we'll yell hay, bear a lot, and we'll, we'll figure it out. David, who is just an incredibly strong rider. And I, I didn't think I was gonna be able to keep up with, I was able to keep up with him. And so that was really cool for me. It was, it was, it worked out, but we also had an explicit conversation. At breakfast one morning, we were like, Hey, you know, if you need to take off or, or if you're worried about what it looks like for us to be riding next to each other it's probably more of a concern. If you're at the front, it might look like you're drafting on track leaders. But more importantly for each of our own races, like, you know, I get it. If you need to take off, if you're feeling really good and you need to take off, or you're gonna, you're gonna do an overnight push an overnight. And I can't do that. You ride your race and it just worked out. [00:37:37] Craig Dalton: Let's paint the picture of what, what happens at night when it's time to lay your head down? [00:37:43] Nick Marzano: Yeah, well, so it, it involved more motels this year than I than I had planned for, for sure. [00:37:50] Craig Dalton: I, I mean, I, I can't blame you and a couple long bike trips that I've done, like having a night in a hotel in the middle just meant all the difference in the world. It just felt so refreshed. [00:38:00] Nick Marzano: Yeah, I knew it would be somewhere on like maybe 40% it's in bear country. If you don't find a pit toilet and there's, you know, some of the motels are pretty affordable. It's refreshing after a 200 mile day to just get four hours in a bed. And I think it did help with saddle sores were not, were not a huge issue. They, you know, But yeah, I mean the, the night basically looked like rolling in at 11, 12, sometimes two or 3:00 AM to a motel or rolling out my B and. Quick. I mean, it's, it's resupply. It is prep your stuff, and I got better at this. As we went along, hit a resupply cram as many calories as you can try to cram some protein in there as well. Try to drink as much as you can, so you don't go to bed dehydrated or wake up even more dehydrated. Figure out what your sleep situation is. If it's Bing down or if it's grabbing a motel, do that very quickly and then make a plan for tomorrow. And fall asleep as quickly as you can, so you can maximize that time. So that is really the tiring part of, I like the riding certainly physically exhausts you and, and makes that part harder. But the time management of making sure, as soon as you're off the bike, you do those sort of things. Is that wears on you after three weeks? For sure. I can't imagine. I mean, it gives me such a greater appreciation for Sophie on and Actually a member of our Virginia sort of crew Abe Kaufman finished fourth overall first American, like these are folks who are doing that at a much higher level than I was even doing that for sure. And, and it's still exhausting. Like just, you need to be on as soon as you get off the bike and make sure that you're maximizing that time. And then you wake up and throw your stuff on. Try not to Dole too much and, and get right back out. [00:39:47] Craig Dalton: How concerned were you about your busy situation and in terms of warmth when you're in the Northern part of the country? [00:39:54] Nick Marzano: Warmth, not at all. It was more about the wet. I would take a tent if I went again and oddly, you know, David had sort of the opposite reflection. He brought a tent and, and would've preferred prefer to bivy. But I think I would've been a little bit bolder camping out in some of the wetter areas. If I had had something a little more substantial but my B would let water in if it was more than a little sprinkle and then my down sleeping bag would be wet and then I would be cold and, and wet. And that's not a good recipe. [00:40:23] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Did you have days where you were concerned about where you were gonna lay your head that night? [00:40:31] Nick Marzano: Not not completely. I mean, the nice, the nice thing about the root is that there are a lot of, there are a couple of, of, of tricky sections, but really if you, if you have a B, I didn't get into a bad spot where I was, I was really worried. And I had an emergency plan. I mean, I had a ground cloth wi with me that if, if I was really caught out in a storm, I could cover myself with that