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Courage is not loud. Sometimes it is a 13-year-old girl standing in a courtroom, promising to defend dignity no matter the cost.  Noura Ghazi's life was shaped by detention, disappearance, and resistance long before she became a human rights lawyer. Growing up in Damascus with a father repeatedly imprisoned for political opposition, she chose early to confront injustice through law rather than violence. From defending political prisoners during the Syrian revolution to marrying her husband inside a prison and later founding No Photo Zone, Noura has built a life rooted in resilience, civil rights advocacy, and unwavering belief in human dignity.  Now living in France as a political refugee, she continues her work supporting families of detainees, survivors of torture, and the disappeared. Her story is not simply about survival. It is about choosing mindset over fear, purpose over despair, and love even in the shadow of loss. This conversation invites reflection on what it means to remain Unstoppable when freedom, justice, and even safety are uncertain.  Highlights:  00:07:06 – A defining childhood moment reveals how a confrontation in a Syrian courtroom shaped Noura's lifelong commitment to defending political prisoners.  00:12:51 – The unpredictable nature of Syria's exceptional courts exposes how justice without standards creates generational instability and fear.  00:17:32 – The emotional aftermath of her father's release illustrates how imprisonment reshapes entire families, not just the person detained.  00:23:47 – Noura's pursuit of human rights education demonstrates how intentional learning becomes an act of resistance in restrictive systems.  00:32:10 – The early days of the Syrian revolution clarify how violence escalates when peaceful protest is met with force.  00:37:27 – Her marriage inside a prison and the global advocacy campaign that followed reflect how personal love can fuel public courage.  00:50:59 – A candid reflection on PTSD reveals how trauma can coexist with purpose and even deepen empathy for others.  About the Guest:   Noura Ghazi's life has been shaped by a single, unwavering mission: to defend dignity, freedom, and justice in the face of dictatorship. Born in Damascus into a family deeply rooted in political resistance, she witnessed firsthand the cost of speaking out when her father was detained, tortured, and disappeared multiple times. That lived experience became her calling. Since 2004, she has defended political prisoners before Syria's Supreme Security State Court, and when the Syrian revolution began in 2011, she fully committed herself to supporting detainees and the families of the disappeared. Even after her husband, activist Bassel Khartabil Safadi, was detained, disappeared, and ultimately executed, she continued her advocacy with extraordinary resolve.  Forced into exile in 2018 after repeated threats and arrest warrants, Noura founded NoPhotoZone to provide legal aid, psychological support, and international advocacy for victims of detention, torture, enforced disappearance, and displacement across Syria, Lebanon, and Turkey. Her mission is not only to seek justice for the imprisoned and the missing, but to restore agency and hope to families living in uncertainty and trauma. Recognized globally for her courage and leadership, Noura remains committed to amplifying the voices of the silenced and ensuring that even in the darkest systems, human rights and human dignity are never forgotten.  https://nouraghazi.org/   https://nophotozone.org/   Book – Waiting by Noura Ghazi - https://www.lulu.com/shop/noura-ghazi-safadi/waiting/paperback/product-1jz2kz2j.html?page=1&pageSize=4   About the Host:  Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.  Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.  https://michaelhingson.com   https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/   https://twitter.com/mhingson   https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson   https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/  Thanks for listening!  Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.  Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!  Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can follow the podcast on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app.  Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you are enjoying the show, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. Michael Hingson  00:09 Well, welcome everyone to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today, we get to chat with Nora Ghazi, who lives in, I believe, France right now. She was born in Syria. She'll tell us about that, and she has had an interesting life, and I would say, a life that has had lots of challenges and some treachery along the way. But we'll get to all of that, and I will leave it to her to describe most of that, but I just want to tell you all we really appreciate you being here and hope you enjoy the episode. So Nora, how are you? Noura Ghazi  00:49 Thank you, Michael, for having me in this great broadcast, doing well. Michael Hingson  00:57 Well, there you go. Well, why don't we start? I love to start this way. Why don't you tell us kind of about the early Nora, growing up and so on, where you grew up, what anything you want to talk about, regarding being a younger person and all of that and and however we want to proceed, we'll go from there. Noura Ghazi  01:17 Okay, so since I was a child, my childhood wasn't like normal, like all the kids at my age, because my father was like a leader in opposition party against the previous Syrian regime. Michael Hingson  01:34 So you were born in Syria? Noura Ghazi  01:37 Yes, I work in Damascus. I'm from Damascus, but I have some like multiple origin that I'm proud of. But yes, I'm from Damascus. So since I was five years old, my father was disappeared and because he was wanted with other, like fellows at his party and other, let's say aliens, parties of opposition against the previous regime. So he disappeared for six years, then he was detained and transferred to what was named the supreme security state court. So it was during my adultness, let's say so since I was a child like I had at that time, only one sister, which is one year younger than me, we were moving a lot. We had no place to live. So my mother used to take us each few days to stay at some, someone place, let's say so it caused to us like changing schools all, all the time, which means changing friends. So it was very weird. And at that age, okay, I I knew the words of like cause, the words of leader or dictatorship. I used to say these words, but without knowing what does it mean. Then, when my father detained, it was his ninth detention. Actually, my mother was pregnant with my brother, so my brother was born while my father was in prison. And while he was in prison, the last time he disappeared for one year, three months, he was in like a kind of isolation in security facility. Then he was referred to this court. So in one of the sessions of the trials, I had a fight with the officer who, like who was leading the patrol that bring my father and other prisoners of conscience. So at the end of this fight, I promised my father and the officer that, okay, I will grow up and become a human rights lawyer and defend political prisoners, which I did at the end. Michael Hingson  04:05 So what? What was the officer doing? He was taking people to the court. Noura Ghazi  04:12 Yes, because Okay, so there is many kind of prisons now. They became like, more familiar to like public opinion because of, like 15 years of violence in Syria. So there was, like the the central civil prison in Damascus, which we call ADRA prison, and we have said, NIA jail, military prison. So those two prisons, they were like, holding detainees in them. So they they used to bring detainees to the court in busses, like a kind of military busses, with patrol of like civil police and military police. So the officer was like. Heading the patrol that was bringing my fathers from other prison. Michael Hingson  05:05 So you, so you, what was the fight about with the officer and your father and so on? What? How? Well, yeah, what was the fight? Noura Ghazi  05:16 It's very good question, although at that time, it was a very like scary situation, but now I laughed a lot about it. Okay, so they used to to catch all the prisoners in one chain with the handcuffs. So we used to come to hug and kiss my father before entering the court. So I was doing what I used to do during the trials, or just upon the trials, and then one of the policemen, like pushed me away. So I got nervous, and my father got nervous. So the officer provoked me. He was like a kind of insulting that my father is a detainee, and he is like he's coming to this court. So I, like I replied that I'm proud of my father and his friends what they are doing. So he somehow, he threats me to detain me like my father, and at that time, I was very angry, and I curse the father Assad just in on the like in the door, at the door of the court, and there was people and and Like all the the policemen, like they were just pointing their weapon to me, and there was some moments of silence. Then they took all the detainees into the court. So at this moment, while I'm entering the court behind them, I said, I will grow up and become a human rights lawyer to defend political prisoners. Michael Hingson  07:02 What did the officers say to that? Noura Ghazi  07:06 Because they used to look to us as because we are. We were against father Assad and the dictatorship, so they used to see us, even if we are kids, as enemies. Michael Hingson  07:22 Yeah, so the officer but, but he didn't detain you. I was Noura Ghazi  07:27 only 13 years, yeah, okay, they used to to arrest the kids, but they didn't. Michael Hingson  07:37 So did the officer react to your comment? You're going to grow up to become a civil rights lawyer? Noura Ghazi  07:43 He was shocked, was he? But I don't know if he knew that I become a human yes, there at the end, yeah. Michael Hingson  07:54 And meanwhile, what did your father do or say? Noura Ghazi  07:58 He was shocked also, but he was very proud, and until now, he like every time, because I'm also like, very close to to his friends who I used to visit in prison. Then I become a human rights lawyer, and I was the youngest lawyer in Syria. I was only 22 years old when I started to practice law. So during the the revolution in Syria, which started in 2011 some of his friends were detained, and I was their lawyer also. So I'm very close to them. So until now, they remember this story and laugh about it, because no one could curse or say anything not good about father Assad or or the family, even in secret. So it's still, like, very funny, and I'm still like, stuck somehow in, like, in this career and the kind of activism I'm doing, because just I got angry of the officer 30 years ago. So at this, at that moment, I've decided what I will be in the future. I'm just doing it well. Michael Hingson  09:20 From everything I've read, it sounds like you do a good job. Noura Ghazi  09:25 I cannot say it's a job, because usually you you do a job, you get paid for your job, you go at a certain time and come back at a certain time. You do certain tasks. But for me, it's like a continuing fight, non violent fight, of course, for dignity, for freedom, for justice, right, for reveal the truth of those who were disappeared and got missing. So yes, until now, I'm doing this, so I don't have that. Are the luxury to to be paid all the time, or to be to have weekends or to work until like certain hour at night. I cannot say I'm enjoying it, but this is the reason why I'm still alive, because I have a motive to help and support other people who are victims to dictatorship and violence. Michael Hingson  10:25 So your father went into court and what happened? Noura Ghazi  10:31 He was sentenced. At the end, he was sentenced to three years in prison. And it's a funny story, another funny story, actually, because, like the other latines at that at that trial, like it was only my father and other two prisoners who sent who were sentenced to three years in prison, while other people, the minimum was seven years in Prison, until 15 years in prison. So my mother and us, we felt like we are embarrassed and shy because, okay, our father will will be released like in few months, but other prisoners will stay much longer. So it's something very embarrassing to our friends who whom their fathers got sentenced to like more. Michael Hingson  11:30 Did you ever find out why it was only three years? Noura Ghazi  11:33 We don't know because it's an exceptional court, so it's up to the judge and the judge at that time, like it's it's very similar to what is happening now and what happened after 2011 so it's a kind of continuing reality in in Syria since like 63 which was the first time my father was detained. It was in 63 just after the what they called the eighth March revolution. So my father was only 11 years old when he was detained the first time because he participated in a protest. So it's up to the judge. It's not like a real court with like the the fair trial standards. So it's it's only once you know, the judge said the sentences for each one. So two prisoners got confused. They couldn't differentiate like Which sentence to whom, so they asked like again, so he forgot, so he said them again in different way. So it's something like, very spontaneously, yeah, very just moody, not any standard. Michael Hingson  12:51 Well, so Did your father then serve the three years and was released. Or what happened? Noura Ghazi  12:58 He was released on the day that he should be released, he disappeared for few days. We didn't know what happened. Then he was released. Finally he came. We used to live with my my grandma, so I was the one who opened the door, and I saw just my father. So we we knew later that okay, he was moved again to a security facility because he refused to sign a paper that say that he will not practice any oppositional action against the authority. So he refused, yeah, yeah. Michael Hingson  13:43 Well, I mean, I'm sure there's, there's a continuing story, what happened to him after that. So he came home, Noura Ghazi  13:53 he came out to my grandma. It was a big surprise, like full of joy, but full of tears as well. Michael Hingson  14:01 And you're you were 16 now, right? Noura Ghazi  14:04 I was when he was raised. I was 15, yeah, okay, yeah. And my sister was 14. My brother was two years and a half, so for him, okay, the father is this person that we visit behind bars every Monday, not this one who stay with us. So for him, it was weird. For my brother, he was very like little kid to understand. Then my father went to to see his parents as well. Then we came back to our apartment that we couldn't live more than few months because my father was detained. So at this night, everything was very, very, very new, like because before the three years he he was disappeared for six years, so there was. Nine years. We don't live with my father, so my brother used to sleep just next to my mom, actually my sister and me, but okay, we were like a teenager, so it's okay. So my brother couldn't sleep. Because why he keep, he kept asking why my father is sleeping with us while he's not with his friend at that place. And he was traumatized for many days. But usually when, like a political prisoner released, usually, like, we have a kind of two, three weeks of people visiting the family to say, Okay, it's it's good. We're happy for you that he was released. So the first two, three weeks were full of people and like, social events, etc. Then the, the real problem started. So my father studied law, but he was fired from university for security reasons at the the last year of his study, and as he was sentenced so he couldn't work, my mother used to work, and so like suddenly he started to feel that okay, He's not able to work. He's not able to fulfill the needs of his family. He's not able to spend on the family. The problems between him and my mother started. We couldn't as like my sister and me as teenagers. We couldn't really accept him. We couldn't see that. He's the same person that we used to visit in prison. He was very friendly. We used to talk about everything in life, including the very personal things that usually daughters don't speak with fathers about it. But then he became a father, which we we we weren't used to it, and he was shocked also. So I can say that this, this situation, at least on emotional and psychological level, for me, it lasted for 15 years. I couldn't accept him very well, even my my sister and and the brother and it happens to all like prisoners, political prisoners, especially who spent long time in prison. Michael Hingson  17:32 So now is your father and well, are your father and your mother still alive? Or are they around? Noura Ghazi  17:41 They are still alive. They are still in Damascus, Michael Hingson  17:44 and they're still in Damascus. Yes, how is I guess I'll just ask it now, how is Syria different today than it was in the Assad regime, Noura Ghazi  17:56 like most of Syrians, and now we should differentiate about what Syrians will talk. We're talking so like those Syrians, like the majority of Syrians, and I'm meaning here, I'm sorry, I shouldn't be very direct. Now, the Arab Sunni Syrians, most of them, they are very happy. They are calling what happened in in last eight December, that it's the deliberation of Syria, but for other minorities, like religious or ethnic minorities, of course, it's almost the same. For me, I feel that okay, we have the same dictatorship now, the same corruption, the same of like lack of freedom of expression. But the the added that we have now is that we have Islamist who control Syria. We have extremists who control Syria. They intervene even in personal freedoms. They they are like, like, they are committing crimes against minorities, like it started last March, against alawed. It started last July, against Druze. Now it is starting against Kurdish, and unfortunately, the international community turning like an attorney, like, okay. They are okay with with it, because they want, like their own interest, their own benefits. They have another crisis in the world to take care and to think about, not Syria. So the most important for the international community is to have a stable situation in Syria, to be like, like, no kind of like, no fight zone in the Middle East, and they don't care about Syrian people. And this is very frustrating for those who. Who have the same beliefs that I have. Michael Hingson  20:04 So in a lot of ways, you're saying it hasn't, hasn't really changed, and only the, only the faces and names have changed, but not the actions or the results Noura Ghazi  20:16 the faces and names, and most important, the sects, has changed. So it was very obvious for me that most of Syrians, they don't mind to be controlled by dictator. They only mind what is the sect of this dictator? Michael Hingson  20:35 Unfortunately. Well, yeah. Well, let's go back to you. So your father was released, and you had already made your decision about what you wanted to be, what how does school work over there? Did you go to a, what we would call a high school? Or how does all that work? Noura Ghazi  20:58 Yeah, high school, I was among the like the student who got the highest score in Damascus. I was the fourth one on Damascus when I finished. We call it back like Baccalaureate in Syria, which came from French. And I studied law, and I was also very, like, really hard, hard study person. So I was graduated in four years. Actually, nobody in Syria used to finish studying law in Damascus University only in four years. Like some people stayed more than 10 years because it it was very difficult, and it's different than like law college or law school or university of law, depending on the country, than other countries, because we only like study law. Theoretically, we don't have any practice because we were 1000s of students, it was the like the maximum university that include students. And I registered immediately in the Bar Association in Damascus, and I started because we have, like, a kind, it's, it's similar to stage for two years, like under the supervision of another lawyer who was my uncle at the first and then we we have to choose a topic in certain domain of flow, to write a kind of book which is like, it's similar to thesis, to apply it, to approve it, and then to have the kind of interactive examination, then we have the the final graduated. So all of them to be like a practice lawyer. It's around six years, a little bit more. So my specialist was in criminal law, and my thesis, what about what we call the the impossible crime. It was complicated topic. I have to say that in Syria at that time, I'm talking about end of of 90s, beginning of 2000 so we don't have any kind of study related to human rights. We weren't allowed even to spell this word like human rights. So then in 2005 and 2006 I started to study human rights under international laws related to human rights in Jordan. So I became like a kind of certified human rights defenders and the trainer also, Michael Hingson  23:47 okay, and so you said you started practice and you finished school when you started practice, when you were 22 Yes, okay, I'm curious what, what were things like after September 11, of course, you know, we had the terrorist attacks and so on. Did any of that affect anything over in Syria, where you lived, Noura Ghazi  24:15 of course, like, we stayed talking, watching the news for like four months, like until now we remember, like September 11. But you know, I now when I remember, it was a shock, usually for the Arab world, or Arab people like America is against the Arab world. So everything happened against it was like, this was like, let's say 2030, years ago. Everything that caused any harm to America, they celebrate it. So that. At that time, I was 19 years old, and okay, it's the first time we we hear that a person who was terrorist do like is doing this kind in in us, which is like a miracle for us. But then I started to to think, okay, they it's not an army. They are. There are civilians. Those civilians could be against the the policies of the US government. They could be like, This is not a kind of fight for freedom or for rights or for any like, really, like, fair cause. This is a terrorist action against civilians. And then we started, I'm very lucky because I'm from very educated family. So we started to think about, like, okay, bin Laden. And like, which we have a president from Qaeda now in Syria, like, you can imagine how I feel now. Like, I Okay, all the world is against al Qaeda, and they celebrated that the President in Syria is from al Qaeda. So it's, it's very it's, it's, really, it's not logical at all. But the funniest thing that happened, because, like, the name of Usama bin Laden, was keeping on every like, every one tongue. So I have my my oldest uncle. His name is Usama, and he lives in Germany for 40, more than 40 years, actually. So my brother was a child, and he started to cry, and he came to my mother and asked her, I'm afraid, is my uncle the same Usama? So we were laughing all, and we said, No, it's another Usama. This is the Usama. This is Osama bin Laden, who is like from is like a terrorist group, etc. But like this unfortunate incident started to bring to my mind some like the concept of non violence, the concept of that, okay, no civilian in any place in the world should be harmed for any reason, Because we never been told this in Syria and mostly in most of of countries like the word fight is very linked to armed fights, which I totally disagree with. Michael Hingson  27:56 Well, the when people ask me about September 11 and and so on. One of the things that I say is this wasn't a religious war. This wasn't a religious attack. This was terrorist. This was, I put it in terms of of Americans. These were thugs who decided they wanted to have their way with people. But this is not the way the Muslim the Islamic religion is there is peaceful and peace loving as as anyone, and we really need to understand that. And I realize that there are a lot of people in this country who don't really understand all about that, and they don't understand that. In reality, there's a lot of peace loving people in the Middle East, but hopefully we'll be able to educate people over time, and that's one of the reasons I tell the story that I do, because I do believe that what happened is 19 people attacked the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and so on, and they don't represent the the typical viewpoint of most people, religious wise in the Middle East. And I can understand why a lot of people think that the United States doesn't like Arabs, and I'm not sure that that's totally true, but I can appreciate what you're saying. Noura Ghazi  29:28 Yeah, I'm talking about specific communities actually, who they are, like totally against Israel, and they believe that you us is supporting Israel. So that's that's why they have their like this like attitude towards us and or like that US is trying to invest all the resources in the in the Middle East, etc. But what you were mentioning. Is really very important, because those 19 persons, they like kind of they, they cause the very bad reputation for for Muslims, for Middle Eastern because for for for other people from other countries, other culture or other religion, they will not understand that, okay, that, as you said, they don't represent Muslims. And in all religions, we have the extremist and we have those peaceful persons who keep their their religion as a kind of direct connection with God. They respect everyone, and normally in in in Syria, most of of the population like this, but now having a terrorist as a President, I'm not able to believe how there is a lot of Syrians that support him. Mm, hmm. Because when Al Qaeda started in Syria at the beginning, under the name of japet Al Nusra, then, which with July, who is now Ahmad Al shara, was the leader, and he's the leader of the country now most of Syrians, especially the the the Sunni Syrians, were against this, like terrorist groups, because the most harm they cause is for for Sunnis in Syria, because all other minorities, they will think about every Sunni that they, He or she, like, believe and behave like those, which is totally not true. Michael Hingson  31:47 Yeah, I hear you. Well, so September 11 happened, and then eventually you started doing criminal law. And if we go forward to what 2011 with the Syrian revolution? Yeah, and so what was, what was that revolution about? Noura Ghazi  32:10 It was okay. It started as a reaction against detaining kids from school. Okay, of course, this like the Syrian people, including me, we were very affected and inspired about what was happening in Egypt and Tunisia. But okay, so the security arrested and tortured those kids in their south of Syria. So people came out in demonstration to ask for their freedom and the security attack those protesters with, like, with weapons, so couple of persons died. So then it was, it started to be like a kind of revolution, let's say, yeah, the the problem for me, for lot of people like me, that the the previous Syrian regime was very violent against protesters and the previous president, Bashar Assad, he refused to listen to to to those people, he started to, like dissipated from the reality. So this like, much violence that was against us, like, I remember during some protest, there was not like, small weapon toward us. There was a tank that bombing us as protesters, peaceful, non violent, non armed protesters. So this violence led to another violence, like a kind of reaction by those who defected from the army, etc. And here, my father used to say, when the opposition started to to carry weapon in a country that, like the majority of it, is from certain religion, this could lead to a kind of Jihadist methodology. And this is what happened. So for for people like us, which we are very little comparing of like, the other beliefs of other people like we were, we started to be against the Syrian regime, then against the jihadist groups, then against that, like a kind of international, certain International, or, let's say original intervention, like Iran and Russia. So we were fighting everywhere, and no one. No one wanted us because those like educated, secular, non violent people, they. Form a kind of danger for every one of those parties. But what happened with me is that I met my late husband during a revolution at the very early of 2011 and having the relationship with me was my own revolution. So I was living on parallel like two revolution, a personal one and the public one. And then, like he was detained just two weeks before our our wedding. He was disappeared, actually, for nine months, then he was moved to the same prison that my father was in, to the central prison in Damascus that we got married in prison by coincidence. I don't know if coincidence is the right word in this situation, but my late husband was a very well known programmer and activist. So we were he was kind of, let's say, famous, and I was a lawyer and lawyer that defend human rights defenders and political prisoners. And the husband was detained, so I used to visit him in prison and visit other prisoners that I was their lawyers. And because my like, we have this personal aspect that okay, the couple that got married in prison and that, okay, I'm activist as a lawyer, and my late husband was a well known programmer. So we created a very huge campaign, a global campaign. So we invested this campaign to like, to shed the light about detention, torture, disappearance, exceptional courts, then, like also summary execution in Syria. So then, after almost three years of visiting him regularly, he disappeared again in 2015 and in 2017 I knew that he was sentenced to death, and I knew the exact date of his execution, just in 2018 which was two days ago. It was October 5. So this is what happened then. I had to leave Syria in 2018 so I left to Lebanon. Michael Hingson  37:27 So you left Syria and went to Lebanon? Noura Ghazi  37:33 Yes, the The plan was to stay only six months in Lebanon because I was wanted and I was threatened like I lived a terrible life, really, like lot of Syrians who were activists also, but the plan was that I will stay in Lebanon for six months, then I will leave to to UK because I had A scholarship to get a master in international law. But only two months after I left to Lebanon, I decided to stay in Lebanon to establish the organization that I'm I'm leading until now, which was a project between my late husband and me. Its name is no photo zone, so it was a very big decision, but I'm not regrets. Michael Hingson  38:23 You, you practice criminal law, you practiced human rights, you visited your your fiance, as it were, and then, well, then your husband in prison and so on. Wasn't all of that pretty risky for you? Noura Ghazi  38:42 Yes, very risky. I, I lived in under like, different kind of risk. Like, okay, I have the risk that, okay, I'm, I'm doing my activism against the previous regime publicly because I also, I was co founder of the First Family or victim Association in Syria families for freedom. So we, we were, like, doing a kind of advocacy in Europe, and I used to come back to Syria, so I was under this risk, but also I was under the risk of the like, going to prison, because the way to prison and the prison itself were under bombing. It was in like a point that separate the opposition militias and the regime militias. So they were bombing each other and bombing the prison and bombing the way to prison. So for three years, and specifically for like, in, let's say, 2014 specifically, I was among, like, I was almost the only lawyer that visited the prison, and I, I didn't mind this. I faced death more than 100 time, only on the way to prison, two times the person next to me in the like transportation. It's a kind of small bus. He died and fell down on me, but I had a strong belief that I will not die, Michael Hingson  40:21 and then what? Why do you think that they never detained you or or put you in prison? Do you have any thoughts? Noura Ghazi  40:29 I had many arrests weren't against me, but each time there was something that solve it somehow. So the first couple of Earths weren't actually when, when my late husband was detained, he he made a kind of deal with them that, okay, he will give all the information, everything about his activism in return. They, they canceled the arrest warrant against me. Then literally, until now, I don't know how it was solved. Like I, I had to sleep in garden with my cats for many nights. I i spent couple of months that I cannot go to any like to family, be house or to friend house, because I will cause problem for them, my my parents, my brother and sister, and even, like my sister, ex, until like just three months before the fall of the Syrian regime, they were under like, investigation By the security, lot of harassment against them so, but I don't know, like, I'm, I'm survive for a reason that I don't really realize how, Michael Hingson  41:52 wow, it, it's, it certainly is pretty amazing. Did you ever write a book or anything about all of this, Noura Ghazi  42:02 I used to write, always the only book like, let's say, literature or emotional book. It was about love in prison. Its name is waiting. And I wrote this book in English and basil. My late husband translated it. Sorry. I wrote it in Arabic, and Basset translated it into English in prison. So it was a process of smuggling the poems in Arabic and smuggling the them in English, again out of the prison. And we published the book online just after basil disappearance in 2015 then we created the the hard copies, and I did the signature in in Beirut in, like, early 2018 but like, it's, it's online, and it's a very, like light book, let's say very romantic. It's about love in prison. I'm really keen to write again, like maybe a kind of self narrative or about the stories that I lived and i i I heard during my my journey. Unfortunately, like to write needs like this a little stable situation, but I did write many like legal or human rights book or like guides or studies, etc. Michael Hingson  43:34 Now is waiting still available online? Noura Ghazi  43:37 Yes, it's still available online. Michael Hingson  43:40 Okay? It would be great if you could, if you have a picture of the book cover, if you could send that to me, because I'd like to put that in the notes. I would appreciate it if you would, okay, for sure. But anyway, so the the company you founded, what is it called Noura Ghazi  44:02 it's a non government, a non profit organization. Its name is no photo zone. Michael Hingson  44:07 And how did you come up with that name? Noura Ghazi  44:12 It was Vasil who come up with this name, because our main focus is on prisoners of conscious and disappeared. So for him, it was that okay, those places that they put disappeared in them. They are they. There is no cameras to show the others what is happening. So we should be the the like in the place of cameras to tell the world what is happening. So that's why no photos on me, like, means that prisons or like unofficial detention centers, because they're it's an all photo zone, right? Michael Hingson  44:54 And no photo zone is is still operating today. Noura Ghazi  44:58 It's still operating. We are extending our work, although, like we have lots of financial challenges because of, like, funds issues, but for us, the main issue, we provide legal services to victims of torture, detention, disappearance and their families. So we operate in Syria, Lebanon and Turkey. We are a French woman led organization, but we have registration in Turkey and Syria, and like in seven years now, almost seven years, we could provide our services to more than 3000 families who most of them are women, and they are responsible about kids who they don't have fathers. So we defend political prisoners. We search the disappeared. We provide the legal services related to personal and civil status. We provided the services related to identification documents, because it's a very big issue in Syria. Beside we provide rehabilitation, like full rehabilitation programs for survivors of detention or torture, and also advocacy. Of course, it's a very important part of our our work, even with the lack of fund, we've decided in the team, because most of the team, or all the team, they they were themselves victims of detention, or family members of victims, even the non Syrian because we have many non Syrian member in the team. So for us, it's a cause. It's not like a work that we're doing and getting paid. So we're, we're suffering this this year with the fund issues, because there is a lot of change related to the world and Syrian issues, which affected the fund policies. So hopefully we'll be, we'll be fine next year, hopefully, and we're trying to survive with our beneficiaries this year, Michael Hingson  47:02 yeah, well, you, you started receiving, and I assume no photo zone started receiving awards, and eventually you moved out of Lebanon. Tell me more about all of that. Noura Ghazi  47:16 During my journey, I I got many international recognition or a word, including two by Amnesty International. But after almost two years, like just after covid, like the start of covid, I was thinking that I should have another residence permit in another country because, like, it became very difficult for Syrians to get a residence in Lebanon. So I I moved to Turkey, and I was between Lebanon and Turkey. Then I got a call from the French Embassy in Turkey telling me that there is a new kind of a word, which is Marianne award, or Marianne program, that initiated by the French president. And they it's for human rights defenders across the world, and they will give this award for 15 human rights defender from 15 country. And I was listening, I thought they want me to nominate someone. Then they told me that the French government are honored to choose you as a Syrian human rights defender. So it was a program for six months, so I moved to Paris with my cat and dog. Then they extended the program and to become nine months. And at the almost at the end of the program, the both of Lebanese and Turkish authorities refused to renew my residence permit, so I had to stay in France to apply for asylum and a political refugee currently. Michael Hingson  49:10 And so you're in France. Are you still in Paris? Noura Ghazi  49:13 I'm still yes in Paris. I learned French very fast, like in four months. Okay, I'm not perfect, but I learned French. Michael Hingson  49:25 So what did your dog and cat think about all that? Sorry, what did your dog and cat think about moving to France? Noura Ghazi  49:33 They are French, actually, originally, they are friends. Michael Hingson  49:36 Oh, there you go. Noura Ghazi  49:38 My, my poor dog had like he he was English educated, so we used to communicate in English. Then when I was still in Lebanon, I thought, okay, a lot of Syrians are coming to my place, and they don't speak English, so I have to teach him Arabic. Then we moved to Turkish. So I had to teach him Turkish. Then we came to. France. So now my dog understand more than four languages, Michael Hingson  50:06 good for him, and and, of course, your cat is really the boss of the whole thing, right? Noura Ghazi  50:12 Of course, she is like, the center of the universe, Michael Hingson  50:16 yeah, yeah, just ask her. She'll tell you. And she's Noura Ghazi  50:20 very white, so she is 14 years. Oh, it's old, yes. Michael Hingson  50:29 Well, I have a cat we rescued in 2015 we think she was five then. So we think that my cat is 15 going on 16. So, and she moves around and does very well. Noura Ghazi  50:46 Yeah, my cat as well. Michael Hingson  50:49 Yeah. Well, that's the way it should be. So with all the things that you've been dealing with and all the stress, have you had? Noura Ghazi  50:59 PTSD, yes, I started, of course, like it's the minimum, actually, I have PTSD and the TSD, and I started to feel, or let's say, I could know that the what is happening with me is PTSD two years ago. I before, like, couple of months before, I started to feel like something unusual in my body, in my mind. At the beginning, we thought there is a problem in the brain. Then the psychologist and psychiatrist said that it's a huge level of PTSD, which is like the minimum, and like, we should start the journey of of treatment, which is like the behavior treatment and medical treatment as well. Like, some people could stay 10 years. Some people need to go to hospital. It's not the best thing, but sometimes I feel I'm grateful that I'm having PTSD because I'm able to deal with people who are in the same situation. I could feel them, understand them, so I could help them more, because I understand and as a human rights defender and like victim of lot of kind of violations, so I'm very aware about the like, let's call it the first aid, the psychological first aid support. And this is helpful somehow. Okay, I'm suffering, but this suffering is useful for others Michael Hingson  52:47 well and clearly, you are at a point where you can talk about it, which says a lot, because you're able to deal with it well enough to be able to talk about it, which I think is probably pretty important, don't you think? Noura Ghazi  53:03 Yeah, actually, the last at the first time I talked about it very publicly in a conference in Stockholm, it was last October, and then I thought it's important to talk about it. And I'm also thinking to do something more about PTSD, especially the PTSD related to to prisons, torture, etc, this kind of violations, because sharing experience is very important. So I'm still thinking about a kind of certain way to to like, to spread my experience with PTSD, especially that I have lot of changes in in my life recently, because I got married again, and even the the good incident that people who have PTSD, even if they have, like good incident, but it cause a kind of escalation with PTSD, Michael Hingson  54:00 yeah, but you got married again, so you have somebody you can talk with. Noura Ghazi  54:06 Yes, I got married five months ago. The most important that I could fall in love again. So I met my husband in in Paris. He's a Lebanese artist who live in Paris. And yeah, I have, I have a family now, like we have now three cats and a dog and us as couple. But it's very new for me, like this kind of marriage, that a marriage which I live with a partner, because the marriage I used to is that visit the husband in prison. I'm getting used to it. Michael Hingson  54:43 And just as always, the cat runs everything, right? Yes, of course, of course. So tell me about the freedom prize in Normandy. Noura Ghazi  54:55 Oh, it was like one of the best thing I had in my life. I. Was nominated for the freedom prize, which is launched by usually they are like young people who who nominate the the nominees for this prize, but it's launched by the government of Normandy region in France and the International Institute for Human Rights and peace. So among hundreds of files and, like many kind of round of, like short listing, there was me, a Belarusian activist who is detained, and a Palestinian photographer. So like, just knowing that I was nominated among more than 700 person was a privilege for me. The winner was the Palestinian photographer, but it was the first time they invite the other nominee to the celebration, which was on the same date of like liberating Normandy region during the Second World War. So I chose, I thought for my for couple of days about what I will wear, because I need to deliver a message. So I, I I came up with an idea about a white dress with 101 names in blue. Those names are for disappeared and detainees in Syria. So like there was, there was seven persons who worked on this dress, and I had the chance to wear it and to deliver my message and to give a speech in a very important day that even like those fighters during the Second World War who are still alive, they they came from us. They came from lot of countries. I had the privilege to see them directly, to touch them, to tell them thank you, and to deliver my message in front of an audience of 4500 persons. And it's like I love this dress, and like this event was one of the best thing I had in my life. Michael Hingson  57:21 Do you have a picture of you in the dress? Yes, I would think you do. Well, if you want, we'd love to put that in the show notes as well, especially because you're honoring all those people with the names and so on. Kind of cool. Well, okay, so, so Syria, you're, you're saying, in a lot of ways, hasn't, hasn't really changed a whole lot. It's, it's still a lot of dictatorship oriented kinds of things, and they discriminate against certain sex and and so on. And that's extremely unfortunate, because I don't think that that's the impression that people have over here, Noura Ghazi  58:02 exactly I had a chance to visit Syria, a kind of exceptional visit by the French government, because, as political refugees were not allowed to visit our country of origin. And of course, like after eight years, like out of Syria after six years without seeing my family. Of course, I was very happy, but I was very traumatized, and I I came back to Paris in in July 21 and since that time, I feel I'm not the same person before going to Syria. I'm full of frustration. I feel that, okay, I just wasted 14 years of my life for nothing. But hopefully I'm I'm trying to get better because okay, I know, like much of human rights violations mean that my kind of work and activism is more needed, yeah, Michael Hingson  59:03 so you'll so you'll continue to speak out and and fight for freedom. Noura Ghazi  59:10 Yes, I continue, and I will continue fighting for freedom, for dignity, for justice, for civil rights, and also raising awareness about PTSD and how we could invest even our pain for the sake of helping others. Michael Hingson  59:29 Well, I want to tell you that it's been an honor to have you on the podcast, and I am so glad we we got a chance to talk and to do this because having met you previously, in our introductory conversation, it was very clear that there was a story that needed to be told, and I hope that a lot of people will take an interest, and that it will will allow what you do to continue to grow, if people would like to reach out to you. And and help or learn more. How do they do that? Noura Ghazi  1:00:05 We you have the the link of my website that people could connect me, because it includes my my email, my personal email, and I always reply. So I'm happy to to talk with the to contact with people, and it also include all the all my social media, Michael Hingson  1:00:23 right? What? What's the website for? No photo zone. Noura Ghazi  1:00:27 It's no photo zone.org. No photo zone.org. Michael Hingson  1:00:30 I thought it was, but I just wanted you to say it. I wanted you to say it. Noura Ghazi  1:00:35 It's included in my website. Michael Hingson  1:00:37 Yeah, I've got it all and and it will all be in the show notes, but I just thought I would get you to say no photo zone.org Well, I want to thank you for being here. This has been a wonderful time to have a chance to talk, and I appreciate you taking the time to, I hope, educate lots of people. So thank you very much for doing that, and I want to thank all of you for listening and watching. We'd love you to give us a five star rating. Give us a review. We really appreciate ratings and reviews. So wherever you're watching or listening to this podcast, please give us a five star rating. Please review the podcast for us. We value that, and I know that Nora will will appreciate that as well. Also, if you if you know any guests, and Nora you as well, if you know anyone who you think ought to be a guest on the podcast, we would really appreciate it. If you would let us know you can reach me. At Michael M, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, love to hear from you. Love to hear your thoughts about the podcast. So Nora, very much my I want to thank you again. This has been great. Thank you very much for being here. Noura Ghazi  1:01:56 Thank you Michael, and thank you for those who are listening, and we're still in touch.

Today, we take you inside Professor Robert P. George's talk on the future of the American conservative movement, look at Princeton's eight new faculty appointments, and cover the Baccalaureate speaker for Princeton's Class of 2026.

Fr. Andrew Rowell+ on March 11, 2025

Unique features of RN-Baccalaureate programs can make implementation of the AACN Essentials more challenging. In this podcast, you'll learn about findings from a needs assessment conducted by members of the National RN-Baccalaureate (RN-B) Faculty Forum. They explain some of the major challenges RN-B programs face related to the Essentials, and they describe resources such as a curricular mapping tool and checklist that RN-B educators can use to facilitate program alignment with AACN Essentials. Access more information and their resources in their Nurse Educator article.

Welcome to Episode 191 of The Darlington Podcast! In this special episode, listen to Kevin Hunt, assistant athletic director and senior parent, give his Baccalaureate address on May 16. Hunt was selected by the senior class to serve as the Baccalaureate speaker. Following an introduction from his daughter Emma Hunt ('25), Hunt reflects on the accomplishments of the class and reminds seniors to stay humble, face adversity head on, lean on one another, and live a life of service.Click here for complete show notes >>

For many French people, passing the national end-of-high-school exam, known as the Baccalaureate or "Bac", is an important rite of passage. The French love to brag about the "Bac" and how difficult it is, since this implies French pupils are smart. But with so many people passing the diploma, has it lost its value? Recently, the government completely reformed the Bac to make it a "springboard to success". Will it retain its egalitarian – albeit stressful – appeal? We take a closer look in this edition of French Connections.

05-18-2025 Confirmation & Baccalaureate Sunday The Same but Different -Rev. Nicole Chapman-Farley & Alex Barnes, M.Div.

Watch Dr. Henry P. Davis III from First Baptist Church of Highland Park To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.lightsource.com/donate/857/29

On today's episode of the Illumination by Modern Campus podcast, podcast host Shauna Cox was joined by Angela Kersenbrock to discuss how community colleges are changing access and affordability in higher ed, and the workforce alignment required for everyone to succeed. 

Are you ready to run the race set before you? Life isn't a casual stroll—it's a race that requires endurance, focus, and freedom from the weights that hold us back. Scripture tells us in Hebrews 12 to lay aside every burden and the sin that so easily entangles, and to fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith. Like the ancient runners who stripped off everything that slowed them down, we too must shed the distractions, doubts, and worldly pressures that keep us from running well.Graduates, church family, this message is for all of us. We are not alone on this journey—surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses, from biblical heroes to faithful mentors in our own lives, we are cheered on to persevere. Let us look not to the applause of others or the weight of our past, but to Christ, who endured the cross for the joy set before Him. As we run this race, may we do so with eyes fixed on Him, hearts free of every hindrance, and a spirit eager to hear the words, “Well done, good and faithful servant.” Run well.

Ruth Murdoch Elementary Dedication & Andrews Academy 2025 Baccalaureate

2025 Baccalaureate Message for Covenant Day SchoolDelivered by Dr. Kevin DeYoungRecorded at Christ Covenant Church in Matthews, NCWednesday, May 21, 2025Download our mobile app

Send us a textI gave a Baccalaureate speech this year to my hometown high school, and I wanted you to hear my message as well!Please share it with anyone that could use a hopeful message for the future!!I am sending much love to all graduates and their families! Find my podcastEmail me: ccoufal@cynthiacoufalcoaching.comText me: 785-380-2064More information

If you are joining via YouTube and experiencing any difficulties, consider joining us at https://www.meadowbrookbc.org/live. We also have channels available on the Meadowbrook App as well as Apple TV and Roku.

Wednesday evening service preaching from the pulpit of Woodland Baptist Church – Winston Salem, NC * Please feel free to visit our website at woodlandbaptistnow.com

In our Baccalaureate Service sermon, Mary Beth shares with us from John 4. In His conversation with the Samaritan woman at the well, we see Jesus look past labels and see her. And love her.  Jesus offers us grace, which, like water, flows to the broken places of our lives.

05-04-2025 Pastor Stevison Baccalaureate Service SUN 6PM.wav

AU Baccalaureate 2025

KCBC Baccalaureate Service

This was an interview that I felt only scratched the surface not only of the book, Lebanon's Jewish Community: Fragments of Lives Arrested (Palgrave Macmillan, 2018) but of Professor Salameh's knowledge and understanding of the region. Our discussion spanned the ancient roots of the people of Lebanon through his personal story growing up in the multicultural city of Beirut through the current state of affairs in Lebanon. Growing up as a Maronite his first exposure to Jews in Lebanon was an absentee neighbor who would come to air out and check on the house maybe once a month. He did not know what to make of her - but then when he was studying for his Baccalaureate she sent a message that she was carrying out a nine day novena to the Virgin Mary on his behalf. This cross-culture was the basis for the thriving Jewish community in Lebanon.  Unfortunately we did not touch upon the interviews that he conducted as there was just so much to say. I want to share here one that puts things in context - he writes about Alain who lives today in Northern Israel, a mere two-hour car ride from his native Beirut but worlds away from the port city. Franck himself talks about the last time he was in Lebanon, in 2016, and how he felt he could never go back.  Another moving interview is that of Fady Galen who talks about wearing tefillin (phylacteries) in his Catholic school.  Through the good and bad it was so wonderful to speak about the possibilities and the fanatics. As Franck said, he is human and therefore the passion will show in his scholarly work and his writing - it definitely showed in our discussion.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

This was an interview that I felt only scratched the surface not only of the book, Lebanon's Jewish Community: Fragments of Lives Arrested (Palgrave Macmillan, 2018) but of Professor Salameh's knowledge and understanding of the region. Our discussion spanned the ancient roots of the people of Lebanon through his personal story growing up in the multicultural city of Beirut through the current state of affairs in Lebanon. Growing up as a Maronite his first exposure to Jews in Lebanon was an absentee neighbor who would come to air out and check on the house maybe once a month. He did not know what to make of her - but then when he was studying for his Baccalaureate she sent a message that she was carrying out a nine day novena to the Virgin Mary on his behalf. This cross-culture was the basis for the thriving Jewish community in Lebanon.  Unfortunately we did not touch upon the interviews that he conducted as there was just so much to say. I want to share here one that puts things in context - he writes about Alain who lives today in Northern Israel, a mere two-hour car ride from his native Beirut but worlds away from the port city. Franck himself talks about the last time he was in Lebanon, in 2016, and how he felt he could never go back.  Another moving interview is that of Fady Galen who talks about wearing tefillin (phylacteries) in his Catholic school.  Through the good and bad it was so wonderful to speak about the possibilities and the fanatics. As Franck said, he is human and therefore the passion will show in his scholarly work and his writing - it definitely showed in our discussion.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/jewish-studies

This was an interview that I felt only scratched the surface not only of the book, Lebanon's Jewish Community: Fragments of Lives Arrested (Palgrave Macmillan, 2018) but of Professor Salameh's knowledge and understanding of the region. Our discussion spanned the ancient roots of the people of Lebanon through his personal story growing up in the multicultural city of Beirut through the current state of affairs in Lebanon. Growing up as a Maronite his first exposure to Jews in Lebanon was an absentee neighbor who would come to air out and check on the house maybe once a month. He did not know what to make of her - but then when he was studying for his Baccalaureate she sent a message that she was carrying out a nine day novena to the Virgin Mary on his behalf. This cross-culture was the basis for the thriving Jewish community in Lebanon.  Unfortunately we did not touch upon the interviews that he conducted as there was just so much to say. I want to share here one that puts things in context - he writes about Alain who lives today in Northern Israel, a mere two-hour car ride from his native Beirut but worlds away from the port city. Franck himself talks about the last time he was in Lebanon, in 2016, and how he felt he could never go back.  Another moving interview is that of Fady Galen who talks about wearing tefillin (phylacteries) in his Catholic school.  Through the good and bad it was so wonderful to speak about the possibilities and the fanatics. As Franck said, he is human and therefore the passion will show in his scholarly work and his writing - it definitely showed in our discussion.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/middle-eastern-studies

This was an interview that I felt only scratched the surface not only of the book, Lebanon's Jewish Community: Fragments of Lives Arrested (Palgrave Macmillan, 2018) but of Professor Salameh's knowledge and understanding of the region. Our discussion spanned the ancient roots of the people of Lebanon through his personal story growing up in the multicultural city of Beirut through the current state of affairs in Lebanon. Growing up as a Maronite his first exposure to Jews in Lebanon was an absentee neighbor who would come to air out and check on the house maybe once a month. He did not know what to make of her - but then when he was studying for his Baccalaureate she sent a message that she was carrying out a nine day novena to the Virgin Mary on his behalf. This cross-culture was the basis for the thriving Jewish community in Lebanon.  Unfortunately we did not touch upon the interviews that he conducted as there was just so much to say. I want to share here one that puts things in context - he writes about Alain who lives today in Northern Israel, a mere two-hour car ride from his native Beirut but worlds away from the port city. Franck himself talks about the last time he was in Lebanon, in 2016, and how he felt he could never go back.  Another moving interview is that of Fady Galen who talks about wearing tefillin (phylacteries) in his Catholic school.  Through the good and bad it was so wonderful to speak about the possibilities and the fanatics. As Franck said, he is human and therefore the passion will show in his scholarly work and his writing - it definitely showed in our discussion.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/religion

Dance Talk” ® with Joanne Carey and special guest, Sandra Rivera: Teaching Artist/Dancer/Guest Artist with Dances for a Variable Population  In this episode of “Dance Talk” ® with Joanne Carey, join host Joanne Carey as she chats with Special Guest, Sandra Rivera of Dances for a Variable Population. Sandra is a dancer, choreographer, educator, and writer and together they discuss Sandra's extensive career in dance, starting from her early influences in New York City to her involvement with Ballet Hispanico as an original member and up to her current impactful work with Dances for a Variable Population and the upcoming workshops and performances of DVP. Joanne and Sandra also discuss her work with Omega Dance Company. Their conversation highlights the importance of community engagement through dance, and the significance of creating inclusive spaces for older adults to express themselves through movement. They also discuss the role that her experience with liturgical dance held in Sandra's life. Sandra shares her insights on the transformative power of dance and its ability to foster connection and creativity across generations. Sandra Rivera has an extensive career as a dancer, choreographer and educator.  A founding member of Ballet Hispanico, she performed as a principal dancer creating a number of roles in the company's repertory. Since 1990 she has choreographed and performed contemporary dances with thematic content that reflects the Latino experience in the United States.  Artist-in-residence at the Cathedral of St. John the Divine with the Omega Dance Co. where she served as director.  Her solo dance portraits and choreographies have been presented at El Museo del Barrio, the Caramoor International Music Festival and the Abrons Art Center,the  Julia de Burgos Cultural Center, Aaron Davis Hall and the 92 Street Y.  She is on the faculty of Ballet Hispanico School of Dance and performs and is a teaching artist for Dancers for a Variable Population.  BA in Dance in the Latino Diaspora; CUNY's Baccalaureate for Unique & Interdisciplinary Studies.  Sandra Rivera  ⁠⁠https://www.sandrariveraprojects.com/biography⁠⁠ Find out more about Dances for a Variable Population and catch some of their upcoming performances and worksshops Oct 5th, 18th, Nov 16th https://www.dvpnyc.org/ Follow “Dance Talk” ® with Joanne Carey wherever you listen to your podcasts.  ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://dancetalkwithjoannecarey.com/⁠⁠⁠ Tune in. Follow. Like us. And Share.  Please leave us review about our podcast!  “Dance Talk” ® with Joanne Carey  "Where the Dance World Connects, the Conversations Inspire, and Where We Are Keeping Them Real."

A ten-month scientific UAP study changed everything, with never-before-seen shocking UAP / UFO footage of the vehicles operating off the Long Island, New York coast, including incredible footage of a tic-tac UFO flying past an airliner. In this Good Trouble Show podcast, we interview Gerry Tedesco, John Tedesco, and Donna Lee Nardo, who will present new UFO / UAP footage from their experience with over 50 UAP / UFO encounters.With the recent book release by Lue Elizondo, Imminent, and his appearance on News Nation with Ross Coulthart and on Joe Rogan, UAPs / UFOs are back in the news; whistleblower revelations by former Pentagon employee David Grusch, Navy pilots David Fravor and Ryan Graves, along with new Congressional legislation on UFOs, The UAP Disclosure Act of 2024, authored by Senator Mike Rounds, and Senator Chuck Schumer. It's time for the disclosure discussion.Native Long Islander Gerald T. Tedesco is an electrical engineer who currently toils for a local aerospace firm after decades of helping U.S. defense corporations with his security clearance. Like his twin brother John, Gerald's passion for science, UAPs / UFOs, and the paranormal took root at a young age. He received a Baccalaureate of Science in Public Health and a Professional Certificate in Behavior Profiling and Investigative Analysis. He and his brother John designed a patented scientific instrument called a Modular Multi-Wavelength Light Source Engine. When not busy completing work and personal projects, Gerald is found happily spending quality time with his spouse, Sharon, and their daughter, Tiana.Native Long Islander John J. Tedesco is an electrical engineer and engineering educator/consultant who recently retired from a lengthy, rewarding career at Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL Solutions). Like his twin brother Gerald, John's passion for science, UAPs / UFOs, and the paranormal took root at a young age. He received a Baccalaureate of Science in Electrical and Electronics Engineering and a Master of Education in Career and Technical Education. Along with his brother Gerald, he designed a patented scientific instrument called a Modular Multi-Wavelength Light Source Engine. John enjoys entertaining and enlightening his friends, family, and neighbors in his spare time.A Native Long Islander and New Yorker, Donna Lee Nardo is a journalist, investigator, researcher, and strategic communications pro with a keen interest in science, technology, UAPs / UFOs, and the paranormal. She holds a Baccalaureate of Arts with twin Communications and Political Science majors. Donna's career experience reflects the richness of multiple disciplines, including Private Investigation, Publishing, Corporate Communications, Public Affairs, Technology, Finance, Government, Professional Services, and PR. Her lifelong pursuit of questioning and chasing after nature's many mysteries remains insatiable. Donna schedules downtime to cuddle with her pets, write short stories, and create digital art.The Good Trouble Show: Linktree:  https://linktr.ee/thegoodtroubleshowPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/TheGoodTroubleShow YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheGoodTroubleShow Twitter / X: https://twitter.com/GoodTroubleShow Instagram: @goodtroubleshow TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@goodtroubleshow Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/The-Good-Trouble-Show-With-Matt-Ford-106009712211646Threads:  @TheGoodTroubleShowBlueSky: @TheGoodTroubleShowBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-good-trouble-show-with-matt-ford--5808897/support.

On today's episode of the Illumination by Modern Campus podcast, podcast host Shauna Cox was joined by Angela Kersenbrock to discuss how data-driven decision-making is transforming the community college space and how to foster economic stability.  

No Stone Unturned.This is a revisit Beyond Well. It's one of our earliest shows from 2019. Edan Armas is an award-winning Spoken Word Artist and Poet and graduate of Stanford University. Armas was the 2019 Baccalaureate student speaker, and an outspoken voice on the topic of student mental Health. Edan's undergraduate career focused on how emotion manifests in the body, mind and the collective consciousness. Edan encourages students to embrace both the tribulations and triumphs of the college experience, noting that the process of adulting is difficult—even painful, and how vulnerability became his superpower.

Hi, I'm Jody Sweetin, and welcome to Season 4 of Awkward Conversations. This season, we provide parents with practical advice on raising happy, healthy, substance-free kids. Our focus will be on building resilience, and confidence, and empowering kids to make smart choices. We'll feature our amazing co-host, Amy McCarthy from Harvard's Boston Children's Hospital, and have discussions featuring our expert guests, including Richard Lucy, a Senior Prevention Program Manager from the DEA, and Joseph Bozenko, a Senior Research Chemist from the DEA. They will discuss critical topics such as the current fentanyl crisis, the importance of parent-child bonding, and the significant role of education and awareness. We highlight resources like GetSmartAboutDrugs.com and One Pill Can Kill, and discuss harm reduction strategies like naloxone. Remember, the only wrong conversation is the one you don't have with your kids. Key Takeaways: Fentanyl is a powerful synthetic opioid that is up to 50 times stronger than heroin and 100 times stronger than morphine.    It is being increasingly laced into counterfeit pills and other drugs, leading to a rise in accidental overdoses.    The DEA is working to raise awareness of the dangers of fentanyl through its One Pill Can Kill campaign.    There are resources available to help parents talk to their children about drugs, such as Get Smart About Drugs.com. Naloxone is a medication that can reverse an opioid overdose and is available over-the-counter in many states.      TIME STAMPS / IN THIS EPISODE: [00:00] Welcome to Season 4 of Awkward Conversations [01:14] Meet the Hosts and Guests [02:23] The Fentanyl Crisis: A Terrifying Reality [03:31] Understanding the Fentanyl Epidemic [10:01] Raising Awareness and Prevention Efforts [16:42] The Role of Technology in the Crisis [21:08]Harm Reduction Strategies: Naloxone and Test Strips [25:30]Final Thoughts and Resources for Parents [31:03] Preview of Next Week's Episode: The Faces of Fentanyl    BIOS: Jodie Sweetin is an actress, author, and advocate, best known for her role as Stephanie Tanner on the iconic sitcom "Full House" and its sequel "Fuller House". In 2009 she penned her memoir, "unSweetined", which chronicles her journey through addiction and into recovery. With her frank and open approach, Jodie has emerged as a compelling speaker and advocate who now seeks to use her platform and experiences to educate others and reduce the stigma associated with addiction and recovery. @jodiesweetin   Amy McCarthy, LICSW, is a Director of Clinical Social Work at Boston Children's Hospital's Division of Addiction Medicine. She has been working in the Adolescent Substance Use and Addiction Program since 2019 @amymccarthylicsw   Richard Lucey has more than three decades of experience at the state and federal government levels working to prevent alcohol and drug use and misuse among youth and young adults, especially college students. He currently serves as a senior prevention program manager in the Drug Enforcement Administration's Community Outreach and Prevention Support Section. Rich plans and executes educational and public information programs, evaluate program goals and outcomes, and serves as an advisor to the Section Chief and other DEA officials on drug misuse prevention and education programs. Rich formerly served as special assistant to the director for the federal Center for Substance Abuse Prevention, and worked as an education program specialist in the U.S. Department of Education's Office of Safe and Drug-Free Schools.   Joe Bozenko is a Senior Research Chemist with the DEA's Special Testing and Research Laboratory at Dulles, Virginia, and a Scientific Advisor to DEA's Special Operations Division. He's been with the DEA for 21 years and investigates synthetic drug manufacturing around the world. Mr. Bozenko has processed some of the largest methamphetamine laboratories in the world, traveled extensively, and has authored and presented many reports and scientific articles pertaining to the clandestine synthesis of controlled substances. Mr. Bozenko is closely involved with science-related officer safety and leads DEA's handheld instrumentation testing and evaluation. In addition to this, Mr. Bozenko has also been instrumental in he development of the DEA's High-Hazard Level ‘A' Clandestine Laboratory Response Training Program. Mr. Bozenko is also charged with the specialized analysis of selected fentanyl, methamphetamine, and MDMA samples, both domestic and international, for intelligence purposes. Mr. Bozenko holds both a Baccalaureate and Master's Degrees in Chemistry and is an Adjunct Professor of Chemistry at Shepherd University.   Elks: As a 150-year-old organization, they are 100% inclusive with a membership of close to 1 million diverse men and women in over 2,000 Lodges nationally, and while they consider themselves faith based, they are nondenominational and open to all creeds. The Elks have always prided themselves on civic duty, and the Elks Drug and Alcohol Prevention (DAP) program is the nation's largest all volunteer Kids Drug & Alcohol Use Prevention program. The Elks are also strong supporters of our brave men and women in the military, having built and donated the nation's first VA Hospital to the U.S. government. The Elks have donated more than $3.6 billion in cash, goods, and services to enrich the lives of millions of people!    DEA: The United States Drug Enforcement Administration was created in 1973 by President Nixon after the government noticed an alarming rise in recreational drug use and drug-related crime. A division of the Department of Justice, DEA enforces controlled substances laws by apprehending offenders to be prosecuted for criminal and civil crimes. DEA is the largest and most effective antidrug organization in the world, with 239  domestic locations in 23 field divisions and 91 international field divisions in 68  countries.   Resources/Links SAMHSA | Help and Treatment: https://bit.ly/3DJcvJC Get Smart About Drugs: https://bit.ly/45dm8vY   DEA Website: https://bit.ly/44ed9K9 DEA on Instagram: https://bit.ly/3KqL7Uj DEA on Twitter: https://bit.ly/44VvEUt DEA on Facebook: https://bit.ly/440b6ZY DEA YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/3s1KQB6   Elks Kid Zone Website: https://bit.ly/3s79Zdt Elks Drug Awareness Program Website: https://bit.ly/44SunO6 Elks DAP on Twitter: https://bit.ly/45CfpvR Elks DAP on Facebook: https://bit.ly/3Qw8RKL Elks DAP on YouTube: https://bit.ly/444vMQq   Awkward Conversations on Instagram: https://bit.ly/3QCEmTl Awkward Conversations on TikTok: no https://bit.ly/44cMKMH   Jodie Sweetin's Links Jodie's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jodiesweetin/ Jodie's TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@jodiesweetin?lang=en   Amy McCarthy's Links Amy's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amymccarthylicsw/ Boston Children's Hospital Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bostonchildrens/?hl=en Boston Children's Hospital Addiction Medicine: https://www.childrenshospital.org/departments/addiction-medicine   Richard Lucey's Links https://www.linkedin.com/in/rich-lucey-7795a33/ https://www.instagram.com/deahq/   Joseph Bozenko's Links https://www.linkedin.com/in/joebozenko/ https://www.instagram.com/deahq/  

AU Summer 2024 Baccalaureate

Welcome to Episode 164 of The Darlington Podcast! In this special episode, listen to Heather Shores, Upper School history teacher, give her Baccalaureate address on May 17. Shores was selected by the senior class to serve as the Baccalaureate speaker. In her address, she gives the Class of 2024 six pieces of wisdom that she wishes she knew as a high school graduate. Click here for complete show notes >>

What is the difference between Commencement Mass and Baccalaureate? How are Commencement and Commissioning the same? What about a Charge? And what do they all have to do with Pentecost and the Holy Spirit? Lots of word play in this week's episode of Faith Fondue!

If you are joining via Facebook or YouTube and experiencing any difficulties, consider joining us at https://www.meadowbrookbc.org/live. We also have channels available on the Meadowbrook App as well as Apple and Roku.

If you are joining via Facebook or YouTube and experiencing any difficulties, consider joining us at https://www.meadowbrookbc.org/live. We also have channels available on the Meadowbrook App as well as Apple and Roku.

This message was delivered on May 12, 2024, during our Baccalaureate service. The text being expounded is Proverbs 1:7-9.

Listen in as we celebrate our spring '24 graduates with reflections from President Hoornbeek, Dr. Sommers, and student speaker, Abigail Thelen.  Chapel Date: 5/6/24

In our Baccalaureate Service from April 28, 2024, our Student Pastor, Mary Beth Davis-Ashley, shares with us from 1 Kings, 9: 1-13.  For our seniors and all of us, how do we know when God is speaking?  And we find that God may not be calling us exactly where we expect.

This is a revisit Beyond Well. It's one of our earliest shows from 2019. Edan Armas is an award-winning Spoken Word Artist and Poet and graduate of Stanford University. Armas was the 2019 Baccalaureate student speaker, and an outspoken voice on the topic of student mental Health. Edan's undergraduate career focused on how emotion manifests in the body, mind and the collective consciousness. Edan encourages students to embrace both the tribulations and triumphs of the college experience, noting that the process of adulting is difficult—even painful, and how vulnerability became his superpower.

Jason Miller - As we enter the new year, how do we set an intention for our lives that's worthy of our vision? And how do we respect the terrain we're walking on that path? This teaching includes an audio excerpt from Howard Thurman's Baccalaureate ceremony speech at Spelman College from May 4, 1980. You can hear the whole thing here: https://thurman.pitts.emory.edu/items/show/838   Ways to Get Connected Give to our Christmas Offering. Or head here for more information on how the money will help the organizations we're giving to.  RSVP to our in-person New to SBCC Table on February 4th. There will be no childcare, but your children are welcome to join us. Support the ongoing work of SBCC by giving to the general fund or the Tribune Project. South Bend City Church is a 501(c)3 tax-exempt organization. All donations are tax-deductible. Make sure to select the correct fund when giving.

GDP Script/ Top Stories for Nov 15th Publish Date:  Nov 14th HENSSLER 15 From the Henssler Financial Studio Welcome to the Gwinnett Daily Post Podcast. Today is Wednesday, November 15th and Happy Birthday to Randy Macho Man Savage. ***11.15.23 - BIRTHDAY - MACHO MAN RANDY SAVAGE*** I'm Bruce Jenkins and here are your top stories presented by Peggy Slappy Properties. Lanier High School Bus Driver Arrested and Accused of 'Inappropriate Contact' with Students Georgia Gwinnett College Nursing Program Reaccredited Author of 'The Reformatory' to Speak Thursday at Snellville Library Branch Plus, my conversation with Leah McGrath from Ingle Markets on cottage cheese. All of this and more is coming up on the Gwinnett Daily Post podcast, and if you are looking for community news, we encourage you to listen daily and subscribe! Break 1: PEGGY SLAPPY STORY 1: Lanier High School Bus Driver Arrested and Accused of 'Inappropriate Contact' with Students A former Lanier High School bus driver resigned and was arrested following allegations of "inappropriate contact" with students on the bus. The incident was reported to Gwinnett County Public Schools on Oct. 17, leading to the immediate removal of the driver, who resigned on Oct. 20. The case has been referred to GCPS police and the Human Resources Department. The school reassured parents that a substitute driver has taken over, emphasizing student safety. The specific charges against the driver have not been disclosed as the case is under open criminal investigation.   STORY 2: Georgia Gwinnett College Nursing Program Reaccredited Georgia Gwinnett College's baccalaureate degree program in nursing has received re-accreditation from the Commission on Collegiate Nursing Education (CCNE). The accreditation, based on CCNE's 2018 Standards for Accreditation of Baccalaureate and Graduate Nursing Programs, is valid for 10 years. The achievement reflects the program's consistent high quality and the dedication of faculty, staff, and students. The nursing program, known for its selectivity, will surpass 400 graduates at the upcoming commencement ceremony, with a strong record of over 90% first-time pass rates on the NCLEX professional licensing exam. The spring 2023 graduating class achieved a 100% first-time pass rate.       STORY 3: Tananarive Due — Author of 'The Reformatory' — to Speak Thursday at Snellville Library Branch Author Tananarive Due, set to speak at the Gwinnett County Public Library, discusses her latest book "The Reformatory" and her diverse projects. Having ventured into Hollywood, Due served as an executive producer for the documentary "Horror Noire: A History of Black Horror" and earned her first TV credit for an episode of "The Twilight Zone." She's also working on an adaptation for a pilot based on one of her novels and overseeing the filming of "The Reformatory." Due appreciates the collaborative nature of Hollywood, contrasting it with the solitude of novel writing, and looks forward to engaging with readers during her book tour.   We have opportunities for sponsors to get great engagement on these shows. Call 770.874.3200 for more info. We'll be right back Break 2: M.O.G. – TOM WAGES – DTL   STORY 4: Genetic testing can identify patients with family history of high cholesterol Genetic testing can identify familial hypercholesteremia (FH), an inherited condition affecting around 1 in 250 people, often without visible signs until a heart attack occurs. Research from the HerediGene: Population Study, part of a large DNA mapping initiative, suggests that genetic screening can identify individuals with FH, making them candidates for targeted treatment to prevent heart attacks, strokes, and death. The study highlights the importance of genetic testing for individuals with unexplained high cholesterol, enabling aggressive treatment and reducing the risk of major heart events. Early intervention through medication can enhance the quality of life and save lives.   STORY 5: 2 ways to get a ‘do-over' on Social Security You can get a "do-over" on your Social Security benefits in certain circumstances, allowing you to secure a higher monthly benefit. If you filed for benefits before full retirement age and are not yet 70, you can suspend your benefits, earning delayed retirement credits of up to 8% annually. Alternatively, if you started receiving benefits less than 12 months ago, you can withdraw your benefits and refile later, increasing your potential benefit. It's essential to understand the differences between suspension and withdrawal, including when you can file and the repayment of benefits. Consultation with a retirement advisor is recommended due to Social Security's complexities.   We'll be back in a moment   Break 3:  ESOG - INGLES 9   STORY 6: LEAH MCGRATH And now here is my conversation with Leah McGrath from Ingles Markets on cottage cheese.   STORY 7: LEAH MCGRATH ***LEAH MCGRATH INERVIEW***   We'll have final thoughts after this.   Break 4: Henssler 60   Signoff – Thanks again for hanging out with us on today's Gwinnett Daily Post podcast. If you enjoy these shows, we encourage you to check out our other offerings, like the Cherokee Tribune Ledger Podcast, the Marietta Daily Journal, the Community Podcast for Rockdale Newton and Morgan Counties, or the Paulding County News Podcast. Read more about all our stories and get other great content at Gwinnettdailypost.com. Did you know over 50% of Americans listen to podcasts weekly? Giving you important news about our community and telling great stories are what we do. Make sure you join us for our next episode and be sure to share this podcast on social media with your friends and family. Add us to your Alexa Flash Briefing or your Google Home Briefing and be sure to like, follow, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. www.wagesfuneralhome.com  www.psponline.com www.mallofgeorgiachryslerdodgejeep.com  www.esogrepair.com www.henssler.com  www.ingles-markets.com www.downtownlawrencevillega.com  www.gcpsk12.org  www.cummingfair.net www.disneyonice.com www.downtownlawrencevillega.com #NewsPodcast #CurrentEvents #TopHeadlines #BreakingNews #PodcastDiscussion #PodcastNews #InDepthAnalysis #NewsAnalysis #PodcastTrending #WorldNews #LocalNews #GlobalNews #PodcastInsights #NewsBrief #PodcastUpdate #NewsRoundup #WeeklyNews #DailyNews #PodcastInterviews #HotTopics #PodcastOpinions #InvestigativeJournalism #BehindTheHeadlines #PodcastMedia #NewsStories #PodcastReports #JournalismMatters #PodcastPerspectives #NewsCommentary #PodcastListeners #NewsPodcastCommunity #NewsSource #PodcastCuration #WorldAffairs #PodcastUpdates #AudioNews #PodcastJournalism #EmergingStories #NewsFlash #PodcastConversationsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On “Vatican Insider” this weekend, my guest in the interview segment is Jesuit Fr. Mark Lewis, rector of Rome's celebrated Gregorian University, known in Rome simply as “The Greg.” A native of Miami, Florida, Fr. Lewis has degrees in Philosophy and Theology, a Doctorate in History and a career marked by long Rome-based assignments before being named rector a year ago. In Part II of our conversation, we look at how the Greg, preparing for the 2025 Holy Year, will offer a new Diploma in the History and Art of Jubilees, a one-year course that will be start from the academic year 2023-2024 at the Faculty of History and Cultural Heritage of the Church. We also talk about the University's decision “to strengthen the formation of its students on the themes of safeguarding and care for human dignity through the establishment of a course whose attendance will be considered a necessary requirement for the completion of the Baccalaureate, Licentiate and Doctorate academic degrees. The course is offered by the Institute of Anthropology.

On “Vatican Insider” this weekend, my guest in the interview segment is Jesuit Fr. Mark Lewis, rector of Rome's celebrated Gregorian University, known in Rome simply as “The Greg.” A native of Miami, Florida, Fr. Lewis has degrees in Philosophy and Theology, a Doctorate in History and a career marked by long Rome-based assignments before being named rector a year ago. In Part II of our conversation, we look at how the Greg, preparing for the 2025 Holy Year, will offer a new Diploma in the History and Art of Jubilees, a one-year course that will be start from the academic year 2023-2024 at the Faculty of History and Cultural Heritage of the Church. We also talk about the University's decision “to strengthen the formation of its students on the themes of safeguarding and care for human dignity through the establishment of a course whose attendance will be considered a necessary requirement for the completion of the Baccalaureate, Licentiate and Doctorate academic degrees. The course is offered by the Institute of Anthropology.

Dr. Sherri Brooks is the System Director of Career Development at Baptist Memorial Health Care Corporation. Professionally she has been in leadership roles for over 15 years and is a former associate professor at Arkansas State University where she received her Baccalaureate and Master's degrees in Communication Disorders. Sherri is also an alum of the University of Kentucky where she earned her Doctorate degree. She has a passion for helping others reach their potential by empowering them to see what's possible and inspiring them to believe in better so they can own and achieve personally, meaningful success. Sherri strives to live and lead by Dale Dauten's code: Think like a hero - Who can I help today? Work like an artist - What else can we try? Refuse to be ordinary - Pursue excellence and kill it. Celebrate – but take no credit. She is the wife of Kennen Brooks, mother to six young men, mother-in-law of two, and “Nonna” to one spoiled grandson.Link to claim CME credit: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/3DXCFW3CME credit is available for up to 3 years after the stated release dateContact CEOD@bmhcc.org if you have any questions about claiming credit.

Dr. Jim Herbert, Professor of Counselor Education and Rehabilitation and Human Services at Penn State, is back in the studio today. In this second part of a two-part series, Jim discusses the retention challenges identified in his study- Recruitment and Retention of State Vocational Rehabilitation Counselors: A Mixed Methods Analysis.   Please listen in as Carol and Jim continue to unpack this study and have a frank discussion about the significant challenges and possible solutions you can apply to your situation.   Be sure to check out the Recruitment side of the study by Dr. Jim Herbert in the previous episode of Manager Minute.   Listen Here   Full Transcript:   {Music} Speaker1: Manager Minute brought to you by the VRTAC for Quality Management, Conversations powered by VR, one manager at a time, one minute at a time. Here is your host Carol Pankow.   Carol: Well, welcome to the Manager Minute. Joining me back in the studio today is Dr. Jim Herbert, professor of counselor, education and Rehabilitation and Human services at Penn State. Now we're going to discuss the second part of his study, recruitment and retention of state vocational rehabilitation counselors, a mixed methods analysis. And I'm super happy to have you back with me today. Jim, how's it going?   Jim: It's going well and I'm excited to be with you this morning with the podcast and appreciate the opportunity to kind of build on some of the information that we talked about in the earlier one.   Carol: Absolutely. I'm super excited. And for our listeners out there that did not get to listen to the first part of this podcast in June. Please do go back and look in the archives and you can listen to that so you get the full picture because Jim really painted a great foundational piece on the study that he had done, and we focused on one half of his work. And now today we're going to focus on the other half because there's a lot of really good information to unpack. So as I had said, you know, this is a second part of our two part conversation. We're going to focus on the retention aspects of your study today. And just to set the stage for our listeners again who maybe did not listen last month. I first met you through the CSAVR Operations and Personnel Committee, and I used to co-chair the old HRD committee that was evolved into the new Operations and Personnel Committee. But I did that with Cynthia Speight, and I continued to participate after I entered into this TA world. And Cynthia and I had been interested in this recruitment retention topic going back at least eight years. We were doing some different surveys with our states to see what was happening, and we just saw this shrinkage of people entering the field, the reduction in universities offering a master's in rehab counseling and knew back then even like we've got to do something. So I was really pleased to see your work and you had come to the committee to collaborate on this study that you were doing that was supported in part by the National Institute on Disability, Independent Living and Rehab Research, which is NIDILRR. And in the executive summary, you noted there had been this consistent shortage of qualified rehab counselors employed by the state federal VR program for several decades. I guess you know, some of us were thinking, Gosh, this has really been like the last ten years. Uh, this is actually been going on for a while. But the Covid 19 pandemic, I think, exacerbated the shortage. And so today we're going to look at this again, the retention aspects of your study. So let's dig in. And I do want to go over a few things in case our listeners, you know, didn't have a chance to hear you last time. So, Jim, can you just tell them again a little bit about yourself and how long you've been in academia and how did you get there?   Jim: Okay, so I'm an old guy. I've been here, as I kind of explained in the first podcast, I'll just kind of abbreviate. Yeah, I've been an academic for about 37 years and prior to that I worked as a work adjustment counselor and job placement specialist research specialist. So I've been around and as I explained in the initial podcast, like many of you, I became interested in rehabilitation as a result of having a family member with a disability and then started doing some volunteer work. Absolutely loved the field and I loved doing Voc Rehab because I could see kind of the difference that that you can make and you can impact on improving the quality of life for people with disabilities. So if you want to read more about my background, you have nothing to do and you have trouble sleeping at night. You can just look me up at the Penn State and within two minutes I'm sure you'll be falling asleep after reading my bio. So that's the deal.   Carol: I love it. I love it. So many of us did that, though. We kind of fell into it. I fell into it with my mom used to be the volunteer corridor coordinator at the state hospital in Faribault where I grew up. So she used to bring me up to the Pink Ladies canteen where they had donuts and treats and things that the residents of the campus could come in. And I remember being five and on campus and working with all these people with developmental disabilities and other disabilities and just got super interested in the work kind of through her and having people over to our house for Thanksgiving and Christmases and different holidays. It was super fun and I just grew up in that. And so that is the same case with many of our listeners, I'm sure. So last month we talked about the first part of your study. Today we're going to get into the retention aspect. So let's talk about the retention challenges that you identified in the study. So what are those top challenges VR is facing?   Jim: Yeah, so part of our study, what we did, the first part, we basically interviewed state directors. We had them complete an online survey, but then we did about 20 interviews to sort of unpack. A little bit more. And basically we identified and I'm not sure to be frank, if this part is going to be new information for your readers or for the listeners. But it sets up what I want to talk about how do we address these problems of retention? So when we look at why are counselors leaving? Okay, well, the first thing I'm sure your listeners like no surprise on this one. Low salaries, big number one problem graduates coming out of programs now realize and also people are currently working in the field realizing I think in essence kind of the power really that they have. And I think this is sort of a nationwide thing. People are starting to realize, I've got choice, I have options and I want to exercise those. And so we've got to understand that and be receptive to that. So low salaries and we'll talk about, well, what can we do about that aspect? But just for introductory purposes, that's a big, big reason we're losing people to the Veterans Administration. We're losing them to community mental health programs, we're losing them to universities and colleges such as like the disability support services or even sometimes a career placement services. I know former alum from our program here at Penn State who've been in the state system for a long time and left to work at university settings such as disability services or career development. You know, the issue with that is, of course, when you think about the investment with the RSA training program coupled with the two years post-graduation that they have to use for the payback, well, that's a tremendous amount of investment that we've made in unfortunately we're losing them because after they do their two year payback, they're saying there's some other opportunities. Another big problem, and this is particularly true, I think, of the newer graduates, one of the things we know from research is that many counselors, what they do not enjoy is the amount of paperwork process information that's involved with the job data entry, documentation that's involved with that. And I've heard a number of students will say, I didn't get a master's degree in counseling to sit in front of a computer and enter data. I recognize that's a part of the job, I recognize there's information that needs to be recorded. But for the Gen Z and the millennials in particular, they want to work with clients directly. They want to have that client contact. They enjoy working with people. That's a lot different from interacting on a screen or processing paperwork in that way. So while data management, that's a critical part of the job, we've got to think of some other ways of how can we work with particularly the graduate trained personnel, more efficiently and more effectively in a way that benefits the whole mission of the program? That's a big reason why people are leaving. Another problem kind of related to that caseloads. And while it's different, I think with specialized caseloads such as people who work with persons who are visual impairments, vision loss, blindness, hearing deafness, while their caseloads are lower counselors with general caseloads, it's not unheard to have caseloads of around 200. I mean, that's. So how do you develop an effective working relationship when you have to interact with 200 people? The answer is you can't or it's difficult. So I mentioned these three problems because I think it provides a context for what are we going to do about that? How do we address those kinds of things that are underlying? So that's what we're going to be kind of diving into today.   Carol: Yeah, I agree. I appreciate you setting that backdrop because those are all things as I was reading the study, I'm like, Oh, absolutely. And I keep thinking if folks are continuing to be organized the way they were pre-wioa as far as staffing and structure and roles and responsibilities, man, you really need to rethink that because there are opportunities and I think we'll get into this. There's a lot of cool stuff folks can be looking at doing now differently. We talked about this in the first podcast, you know, about, well, we've always done it that way and I think in VR we can tend to fall into that trap. And you forget like, Hey, we are inventive, creative people. We have got to approach this in a different way. So let's talk about that. Let's get into what are some of the retention strategies I know the state vocal rehab directors believe would contribute to retention. There were a number of things that you had in the study I thought were pretty cool. So let's unpack some of those.   Jim: All right. Well, let's tackle the big problem, the salary issue. And we've mentioned this a little bit in the earlier last month's podcast, but we've got to take a look at what is the salary structure. Okay. And are there ways that we can adjust that And just in terms of wages or benefits. Now, the first thing is, no, we can't. It's too difficult. It's, you know, it's really about. That's true. But at the same time, I know from talking with directors and to come to mind, Kentucky and North Carolina, where there are states, Maryland, I think we mentioned in the earlier podcast that have been effective in getting better pay, more equitable pay for counselors. Now, again, I think as we mentioned, I think actually, Carol, you mentioned this, you know, this isn't something like, okay, well, next week we're going to start that. No, this takes literally years to do because of the political influences. You know, like who are the secretaries of state and the governors, and is there support to do that And yes or no? And how do you build the case? So building that case of, you know, hey, we're losing people when we look at our salaries compared to rehab counselors in the Veterans Administration, compared to mental health counselors, compared to other comparable professions, let's look at what the data. So, you know, you don't need to be a genius to kind of figure out this job is going to pay $20,000 more for what I think is essentially the same job. And so it's like we've got to take a look at this because the thing is, you know, just kind of throw your hands up and say, well, we can't do anything about that. Well, I'm not sure about that. But I do know this, that to institute any kind of change, we have to have some sort of rationale and data to support why do we absolutely need to do that? And we'll talk about this aspect a little bit later. But part of the data collection also, and this is a tool that we have available but very few states use it, is when we conduct those exit interviews with people that they're leaving. And you ask, well, why are you leaving? I'd be willing to bet based on my understanding of either people I know that have left the agency or what I've seen in the review of the literature. These testimonials, I think are really critical and say over the last three years we've lost 50 counselors. We asked them, Why are you leaving? 85% is because of low salary. That's important data. Okay. And that's just not something that hey, wouldn't it be nice? But I can't think in terms of any kind of real data, anything more important than those kinds of testimonials. But the problem is that most states don't use exit interviews or if they conduct them, frankly, I don't think they do a good job or even if they do a good job the problem is the data doesn't always get communicated back to the state director. So here in Pennsylvania, anybody works for labor, Labor and industry. Well, that's just not VR counselors. That's a whole other group of professionals that get kind of lumped in together. And so those are kind of some important data that we need to start monitoring. We need to build a case we just can't keep kind of poor me, blah, blah, What are the data? And then ultimately how is that impacted? And I think those kinds of things are really important.   Carol: I agree 100%. I know as I have talked to different directors across the country, you mentioned Kentucky. Absolutely. Core McNabb talked to her. She's done some things, really big, impactful things with this. Scott Dennis, as we talked about, I know Brett McNeil right now in Florida has a big initiative that's taken several years, started before him, but and he's a newer director in but continued that fight. And I'm hoping fingers crossed that he's able to get that through the legislative session this year to get those increases for his folks. But for our listeners, I know some of you are thinking like, well, it's daunting. Like this is a terrible task. You've got to do all of this work. It's going to take all these years. But if you never start, you're never going to finish. If you never build the case, you never collect the data, you don't go after this. Three years from now, we're going to be talking about the same problem and you've done nothing towards it. And so I just really encourage people like you have to start this is so critical. This is a fundamental issue for your agency that pay piece. You need to work on it. And that's where you have to build your relationships. You got to look at any coalitions that you can engage in. You want to reach out to those other directors that have been successful to find out what they've done. Jane Donellen in Idaho General, she's done some interesting things around this as well. You want to talk to those other people, reach out to your CSAVR colleagues and say like, Hey, how you do that? I know every state is set up differently and you have your own civil service rules in your state. But by and large, doing something like this, what you said, Jim, you get to build the case. And so I don't care what state you're in, you're always going to want to come in with your data. Here it is. And you present it because you may be thinking that HR is like looking out for you. But think about it. HR has had these huge turnovers and staff to they don't know what's going on. You know your story, they don't know it. You're one of a whole bunch of books of business in that state. You've got you. If you're in a labor agency, you've got all these other programs, unemployment insurance, they'll remember that was kind of having problems. You're the one living with it every day. So if you can paint that picture, that helps them because I know there's always a method for doing this within the state. It may be a little daunting, but if you don't start I mean, I'm kind of on my soapbox right now, but if you never start, you're never going to get there.   Jim: You're absolutely spot on. And I would agree with that. One of the things I'll ask my students when we talk about problems and problem resolution and those things is the issue of control. And one of the things I'll ask is, what is it? Because there's so many things we can't control, but what is it that we can control? And I think that's a question that you're asking. And then also, too, is the perception because you think, oh, well, we can't. And it's like, well, maybe we can, but the first thing we've got to collect the information to support the case. So related to that kind of issue of control, and I'm going to spoiler alert to your listeners, I'm going to probably say a few things that might be a little bit controversial. No surprise there. But kind of related to that and this is going to be hard, I know, is the question of how are we conceiving of this job. You know, I said earlier that the millennials and Gen Z in particular, they didn't come in to be a rehab counselor to six out of eight hours of the day in front of a computer and data entry that doesn't light it up for them. And so one of the things we know from a number of studies of graduates, they're saying to us, we want opportunities that are going to give us greater client access. So I got into this because I like working with people. You know, I enjoy that interaction. I love that part of the job. And so what some states are doing and a couple come to mind, North Carolina General, Tennessee, they're saying, okay, how can we reduce the administrative data entry task? Is there a way that we can maybe allocate those aspects to maybe someone that you don't necessarily have to have a master's degree to do that? And we know that, Carol, you know this you know, a number of states now are kind of rethinking this baccalaureate position. Maybe there are opportunities at the introductory level, if you will, professional level that require a baccalaureate degree. So the thinking, of course, being if we can assign those tasks to and sometimes states use different titles, sometimes you'll hear the term counselor, aide paraprofessional, which personally I don't like that because I think at the Baccalaureate you're a professional. I think to me it kind of denigrates that. But the point is the intent here is like, okay, can I have someone's going to help me with the case management functions aspect, the documentation that I might now be able to spend more time with clients. The other thing too, that we learned I found this was interesting New Hampshire developed kind of a pilot project with I think this is I think was a University of Wisconsin Stout. I believe if it's wrong, my apologies to the other university who did, but I think it was with Stout in helping them in the decision making process of eligibility determinations. So they would outsource this to UW stout personnel who then review the case. Now, they didn't make the I want to be clear on this. They didn't make the determination. They made maybe a recommendation for that. The counselor makes the final determination, but was interesting. I believe that by doing that, New Hampshire was saying that saved about 30% of time that a counselor might have to allocate for that, that now that if we outsource that, that allowed them to have greater contact. So that's another thing.   Carol: Yeah. So it's funny you bring that up, Jim. So I'm actually doing a podcast in August with and this really started in Wisconsin. Wisconsin was the spearhead of this and New Hampshire jumped onto it with the Stout doing that. So my August podcast is going to be focused on how Wisconsin created this project with Stout. And we're going to talk about how they did it, because now more and more states I still remember when Wisconsin brought this up back at CSAVR, you know, probably four years ago, and everybody was kind of like, huh, Like, oh, that's interesting. Or why did you do that? Well, now everybody's going, Hey, I want to know more about that. And Lisa Hinson Hatz in New Hampshire. She dug into that to going, Hey, we need help out here. And that's where I was saying earlier, if you're organized in the same way you were pre WIOA stop it. Like you need to think about this because there's a lot of things that fundamentally have changed. And I love what you said about can you use other positions that are maybe more of the case manager of that case and doing all that chasing around? Can you use technology solutions? I did a podcast with our friends from Alaska in March on SARA with a semi-automated rehab assistant. You know, you're chasing down these MSGs and I need your transcript and all of that. Are you looking at other solutions? Friends that can help to automate maybe some of this that your staff are currently doing. I just think to look wide.   Jim: Absolutely. And I think that is again, kind of like, is there another way that we could do this? And I think we talked about this a little bit earlier. Sometimes we fall in the trap. Well, we've always done it this way. Well is it working well. If it's not working, that says we have to change that. So increasing the time again, either through technology or perhaps the creation of and I'll talk about this a little bit later, different levels in terms of a career ladder. Another thing and again and this is it's particularly problematic because when you don't have enough counselors, typically what happens then? The supervisor fills in, the counselor leaves. Now the supervisor or it gets redistributed to other counselors so their caseloads increase. And then here's some academic telling your audience that, well, you got to reduce caseload size. So, yes, I live in the ivory tower. Okay. But let me just say this again. These problems are interdependent and the solutions are interdependent. You can't implement one because we'll have about ten or so that we're going to go through. You can't implement one and think, oh, that's going to solve it. It's not. It's a combination of confluence of all of these that will change, if you will, in terms of the retention aspect. So reducing caseload size, you know, next to salary. The other thing, too, you if you talk with counselors, what is it that they have too many clients and we talked in the earlier podcast, again, while there's some specialized caseloads may be different 30 to 50 clients, other generalized caseloads, they could be 150, 200 clients. So it's difficult to believe that you can have any kind of effective working relationship with that size. And the other thing I'll just mention, it's interesting because when you look at what factors predict who's going to have a successful rehab outcome, when you look at the literature, basically what you find is that a significant contributor is the relationship. There's that word again, the relationship between the client and the counselor. I know we use the term customer. I'm kind of old school. We don't get into that. But anyway, I still use the term client. The point being is when you have an effective working relationship, you have better outcomes. And so it only makes sense then, well, you know how many of you, when you go to your physicians appointment, you get in a rush, you know, two minutes, and then you come at a physician that actually spends 30 minutes with you, you know, like, Wow, this is so good. They feel like they took time to know what my problems are, what the issue is, what's kind of going on. The person that spends too, like, look, I don't you know, I'm overworked, I'm underpaid, I don't have time for this. Those messages get communicated. Clients are pretty savvy and picking that up. I don't think we give them enough credit for that. So part of that is when we were talking about providing more access to clients and developing that relationship, but also reducing the client caseload size. So related to that, we have to think about again, maybe modifying some of those caseload practices. So when we talk about grief, thinking how the job is done, again, maybe there's some components that we could institute that might allow greater access. So I think it was Iowa for the Blind that had a specialist that maybe would assist the counselor. I think the same thing like in Indiana, a case coordinator. So maybe there's specific roles that other people might do, particularly at the baccalaureate level, to maybe determine or help determine eligibility and help with the caseload aspect. So by implementing that in conjunction with that reduction, again, I think is going to contribute to successful outcomes. And the only other thing I'll just mention, I remember one director that made this statement. It's always interesting to me, like Carol, you're talking about in Maryland and Florida and other states, do they have some sort of secret sauce, some magic thing? You know, what did they do? The question that comes up is like, well, if it can be successfully implemented in one state, can we duplicate it in my state? So what is it that we can do with that?   Carol: One of the things I've learned some years ago that Joe started this Joe Xavier out in California was implementing this team model concept. And so the counselors like the orchestrator of the team, but you have a lot of people that surround an individual as they're going through their VR journey. You know, you have placement people that are working with them. You know, your business specialist could be in a blind agency. You might have an assistive technology specialist and you've got your rehab tech and all these different folks. And so we borrowed from California when I was in Minnesota to leverage all the people on the team so that that client could feel supported, even as counselors are working with lots of people. But it could be that the case aide is talking to them. It's your AssistiveTechnology Specialist is talking to them, your business specialist. So they feel surrounded by this team of people that are ultimately supporting the counselor and the customer and getting this employment goal accomplished. So taking a look at leveraging all your resources, because as you say, when you tell me like 200 people on a caseload, I'm like, that is too many. Think about how many days there are in a year and how many days a person works and you have 200 people. You're trying to keep this relationship going. If you can leverage the support of your team members too. So the person is feeling like people are reaching out and they're contacting them and they're in touch, it will lend to a better outcome.   Jim: I'm glad you kind of amplified that a little bit because it lends itself to the next point is when you think of the career ladder structure that exists in old VR, we kind of have that one counselor, one client kind of model. And what you're talking about is more a systemic approach. And recall that I think it was in Indiana where they had I think it was Indiana. If it wasn't, then my mistake. But anyway, I think they have what was called kind of a work project group. And so you had staff that collectively worked together. So when it talks about a particular client, so you had multiple people. So now in their work group, as I recall, they might have like an individual who might be the eligibility determination counselor. And then other people worked as caseload counselors and others work more in terms I'm going to use the term therapeutic counselor relationship aspects. And my recollection from talking with the director there was when they looked at that approach, what they found was that actually the time spent in eligibility that was reduced. So it's like we're providing more effective service, more timely services and the benefit in terms of the counselors, in terms of their training, that also was kind of reduced because they're kind of specializing on this aspect of the job. So part of that is thinking about, well, maybe we have to think things a little bit more systemically. The other thing is when we look at the career ladder structure, this is all over the place because you have states that basically have like level one, level two counselors and some there's three or some four or some five and that's all as a function of how many years that you've been with the agency, whether or not you have a graduate degree, whether or not you're a CRC, all of those things contribute. So one of the things that you have to think about, is there a way that we can kind of build in a little bit more? Because again, basically you kind of go from a counselor to a supervisor and most counselors, at least that I've found, they're not clamoring necessarily to be a supervisor. That's not an easy job. In fact, much of my research and I do a lot of training on clinical supervision for state rehab agencies. And I can tell you, I know firsthand I've been doing this for 20 years. That I think is the most difficult job in State VR, is to be a counselor, a supervisor or a manager. So that being said, it was interesting. I think it was Missouri when they looked at when counselors are leaving, what they had found was that their counselors were their most susceptible were counselors that had been with the agencies 4 to 6 years. Looking at that, one of the actions that they took was, well, maybe what we need to do is try to build in some sort of other kind of a counselor level creating another level so we can retain those because it's bad when you lose anybody. But those are the people that have gained the experience. They've got something to contribute and now they're the ones you can least afford to lose. So they created something specifically for that career ladder to address that problem.   Carol: Absolutely 100%. I have loved it because we've had a number of states reach out to us as we've been doing this recruitment retention pilot through the VRTACQM and other people have been like, Can you help us a little bit? Look at these career ladders for our staff? Because some folks I didn't realize how many states are just sort of flat. You have your counselor come in and then like you said, then you're the supervisor and not everybody wants to go into management of any sort. There's a lot of people that like that individual contributor, but they want to grow that role. And when you look at those people, as you talked about with that vast experience, if you can create more of that team lead or a counselor lead or a senior counselor or whatever, they can take on mentorship of the new people coming in, they're the go to person for those really difficult cases is your problem solving. And they love it because they thrive in that space. And so we have been successful. I know we worked with South Carolina Blind and them instituting some levels in their system. That was really fun work to do and helping folks just think again, like, let's not be organized the way we were pre WIOA. We need to look at this differently.   Jim: Absolutely. And, you know, and I think the other thing, too, Carol, is, again, maybe you can invite me back for a third time. I don't know. Clinical supervision. But and that's exactly the problem because, yeah, a lot of counselors don't want to be the supervisor, the manager. So when you think in terms of the career, it's like, well, you're a counselor and you go right to the supervisor. Is there a way that we could structure so you can also when we think of career ladder, we can do kind of hierarchical, you know, typical, but also we can do kind of across horizontally. And again, I've seen some states that will create kind of a specialist, a job placement specialist or the eligibility determination. There may be some ways that we can kind of create because there are some counselors will say, actually, I love doing the intakes, I love doing the eligibility. I'm not so keen about the paperwork on that aspect. Others will like the job development, The job placement will go getting out, working with the employer. So everybody's different. So the question is how do we tap into that individual strength that the counselor provides and then match it? Basically what we're doing like the same principles of rehab that ostensibly we do with clients is that, well, maybe we should be doing it with our own agency and our own folks, which I know to varying degrees we do. Moving on, because I know I'm cognizant of the time and I'm looking like, oh my Lord, my list. But just very quickly, another thing is how well do we promote within the agency? How many times have we worked with clients? When you think like, well, you know, actually this person would be a really good rehab counselor. Now I know that we do that, but that's something again, you know, just kind of think about, you know, in doing that. But let me get to some other things that maybe we don't do as often and might be a little bit more controversial for some folks. It's always amazing to me how we promote rehabilitation principles and practices for our clients in other employment settings, but how well do we do it in our own settings? So let's unpack that a little bit. Now, one thing that the pandemic has done is if we were to have a room of 100 counselors and supervisors and directors and mixture sampling, let's say we met five years ago and say, okay, well, here's the deal, folks. We're going to move to. Everybody can kind of work at home and we're going to allow you to basically do all that. And in terms of the work schedule, yes, you have to put 37.5 hours. But if you want to do that on your weekends or you want to do that at night, you can do that, like, what are you smoking? It ain't happening. And yet with the pandemic suddenly now we've rethought. And this reminds me of the old way back when, when Henry Ford was building cars and said, Hey, we're going to move from that six day, ten hour work week to a five day, eight hour. People like you can't do that. It's impossible. Yeah. And look what happened? Production. And so we're operating with historic principles that may not be in the best interest for the current worker. And change is hard. Again, particularly, I think as a baby boomer, it's like, well, we've always done it this way. It worked. Then why can it work now? Well, maybe, maybe not. So the big recommendation or a recommendation is we have to offer greater work, flexibility, telework, flexible schedules, job sharing. Interesting enough. And I'm not going to call out any particular states, although I do know particular states. But what I see, and be honest with you, is a little troubling. It's like, well, we're going to go back to where it was before, really. And I'm just kind of wondering, how is that going to work? I'm not really seeing that. It's sort of like you opened up the box. Oh, wow. There's something really nice here that I like. Okay, let's cover it back up. I just don't see that working.   Carol: It's not working. So I know a couple of those states where now we're post pandemic and the governor of the state is like, Oh, everybody's going to come back into the office. You're all coming in five days a week, 100% of the time, and it's killing them. They are losing staff by the droves. It has been an absolute nightmare. I'm not understanding the thinking behind that because it is literally killing them.   Jim: Here's the other thing, too, and this is where, again, we talked about the importance of data collection earlier. There are studies in the business world I haven't seen too many, and there may be some that I'm just not aware of. But studies have said, well, let's look at the impact of offering this kind of what does this do? How does this change in terms of our numbers? The bottom line status 26, it's like, well, have we witnessed a significant drop off of that? And is that attributable because of offering counselors options? I would contend and I'll talk more about what I refer to as the big enchilada. I'll save that to the end. I would contend that giving people greater choice, I think, helps in terms of kind of their morale gives them more control, particularly single parents managing children, you know, and also when you think it mirrors the life that our clients I mean, people can't take off. Necessarily between your 8:30 to 4:30 day, I may have availability at night or maybe on the weekends. So offering workers, not just telework, because I think that's pretty common, although as you say and I would agree, I know states are kind of like, let's go back to the way it was, but also in terms of offering flexible schedules, it's like, where's it written that it has to be 8:30 to 4:30? And I know a number of states all have like four day work weeks or ten hours a day. But then again, here's one of these rehab principles. We talk about job sharing. Do we do any job sharing in rehab counseling, practice? Do we do? How does that. So again, it's something we espouse for our clients, but we don't necessarily how do we practice that in our own offices? That's something that we need to do. Related to that is and again, this might be a little bit controversial is allowing people to work part time. Now, again, it's like, no, no, no, no, no, we can't do that. Or if we do that, it's only under kind of medical reasons. So if someone has a medical issue and they're trying to get back to work, I guess my question is, would you rather lose a counselor 100% of the time? Or would you rather have somebody rather than a complete loss that they're working half time Now? I'm not saying that we should all move to half, but I'm saying allow counselors choice. If there's one thing that's clear, and I think this is what you were alluding to, Carol, People want choice and people I think the thing is, they understand for probably the first time in a long time that I've got choice in the workplace. Okay. So allowing them to work part time.   Carol: I love that one, Jim, because especially when you think about your retirees, you know, you and I are in that age.   Jim: Some might say I should have already been retired. Yeah, Well, and you go, okay, so you know, a lot of times folks are looking at retirement and it's an all or nothing thing. You know, you're working full time, 100%, and then you go to nothing. There's a lot of people that want that staged piece of it. So you take a look at some of your longer term counselors. Sure, they want to retire, but they wouldn't mind helping out work in part time like that would be good for them. And they could still get some benefits and some things and work 20 hours a week. And especially given you can do things with telework and different things that can keep you going like versus having nobody there. And then you're adding on caseload to other people. You keep a person that understands your system, but they're just willing to do it at a reduced rate. And again, it's one of those things like, does it hurt to ask HR like in your practices? So because the state has never done it before doesn't mean they can't. And you are not the only industry isn't the only industry facing that same issue. It's all of state employment. So people are starting to look at things very differently where they may not have done that even five years ago. So again, using your words and at least asking if you could do it, absolutely. Again, they kind of phased in retirement part time. Yeah, because especially the older worker, I mean, all that history there, the people that when you have a staff meeting and a new person comes on hey, let's try such and such. And that's the person that says, Yep, we did that in about 20 years ago. We tried that. Okay. We talked a little bit about exit interviews. Some states, One of the things that they're doing and you've mentioned this several times, ask if you don't know, ask another thing states are starting is the use of stay or exit interviews. So have kind of open ended discussions with your employees about why do you stay here? And then those that are leaving, what are some of the factors that are contributing to your leaving? So having like Kentucky did this kind of open ended listening tour, which was kind of really cool. So talk to your counselors, try to understand like, what are those issues? It might be that, for example, maybe you as the state, the district administrator, rather than that person conducting the interview, maybe someone outside. So because there's questions or concerns about who's asking the questions or those kinds of things. So let me talk about some other strategies that necessarily maybe weren't mentioned by state directors, but our research team have come up with and then our work with the Operations Personnel Committee, with CSAVR. So, we talked about part time options and Carol, actually you mentioned about phased retirement. Again, if you know someone that's going to leave in a year or two, maybe we can kind of phase that in doing kind of a part time. The use of affinity groups that can also be important to enhance career longevity. Affinity groups usually are groups that are created where people share a common characteristic, a common concern. So they might have people that share in terms of maybe disability aspects age, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, where there are common interests, common identities, common kinds of experiences. And. What we know from research in the business world is that affinity groups often can contribute to employee well-being and also reduce workplace stress. And I talk a little bit more of this in the Journal of Rehab article that was just published the other month. So if you want to learn more about that, let me get to the big enchilada, though, while we have a few minutes left. Okay, I know like what I'm about to say may be heresy, but remember that Henry Ford history note? Okay, This is for states that boy, you know, that salary, that all sounds good. It'll take years. But, you know, who knows? And I said to you, well, think about what is it that you can control? So getting salary adjustments may be really kind of difficult. Here's a question I have for you. Where is it written that? Is it possible that rather this sort of five day, 40 hour work schedule, we could go to a four day, 32 hour work schedule? Here's the kicker. At the same pay as the 40 hour work week, if I was with some of the listeners, was like, Oh man, this guy is really kind of gone off.   Carol: They're having a heart attack right now.   Jim: Suddenly everybody just clicked off on the podcast. They just Bloop. That's it. Well, as I mentioned, while there's certain states Kentucky, North Carolina, Florida, Maryland that may have successfully negotiated pay raises, a lot of states it's more difficult. And so the question is, can we create a full time at the same pay for 32 hours? Now, it's interesting. I'd love to work with states who want to implement or think about that. I've heard through the grapevine there may be 1 or 2 that are seriously thinking about this, but I know in the business world, when you look at the evidence of a shorter workweek, while it is mixed, but at least the studies that I've seen, some of the benefits, one of is, is that greater, higher employee retainment, they also have a better work family balance. You know, my wife and I, we have a son who's 26. He's a hard worker. But his view of what's important in life and my view, it's different. So like, why work was everything. Work is important. But he said, Hey, dad, there's more important things to or just my social life, my love life, my recreational life. I want a better quality of life. I want to have a better work family balance. And so when you look at some of the literature, what you see is there are a lot of benefits. So my point is, before you just sort of offhand like, no, that won't work. Think about and start informing. Start looking at, well, what is the literature say about that? So I think working toward that four day, 32 hour, I could be wrong. But I really think and again, state federal government usually are not the leaders to this, usually the kind of the last to react. But I'd be willing to predict that within 5 to 10 years that's going to be happening. And if states start doing kind of pilot studies looking at the impact on that and if they find like, wow, there are ways that we can kind of reduce it because, sure, we waste time. We don't always kind of eight hours every minute we're doing working. But the point is that I think is a proposal worthy of discussion that needs to be had.   Carol: Well, Jim, appreciate you leaving us with the big enchilada for sure. I'm sure folks are going, holy cow. But I know there's been a number of articles done on this and research done on this. I believe it was over even in the UK where they were taking a look at the 32 hour workweek. So it is definitely food for thought. I did want to wrap up and let our listeners know that at VRTAC-QM.org we have recruitment and retention strategies and ideas listed, many of which come from Dr. Herbert's research as well as what your colleagues are doing across the country. So I invite you to go to our website. Probably the easiest way is in the search box. Just go human resources and it'll take you right to that piece of it. But we have a lot of great strategies that folks have implemented with their examples and how they've built the case and done different things. So that could be of help to you as you're on your journey. So Jim, thanks again. I really appreciate having you on. Your work has been super interesting and I look forward to more things that you're doing in this area. So have a great day.   Jim: Thanks, Carol. Appreciate it. Thanks for the opportunity.   {Music} Speaker1: Conversations powered by VR, one manager at a time, one minute at a time, brought to you by the VR TAC for Quality Management. Catch all of our podcast episodes by subscribing on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening!

The nurse staffing shortage has left many hospitals nationwide struggling to fill staffing gaps. This absence of essential workers has left many rural hospitals in desperate need of nurses. Our next guest is looking towards the next generation of nurse leaders and prioritizing rural healthcare in the classroom.  This week, we are talking with Jaimee Gerrie, an Associate Professor of Nursing for Lake Superior State University School of Nursing. Jaimee will discuss how her program is merging leadership and Metaverse technology to not only get nurses in rural but keep them there. “We're working hard so that we can offer nurses a greater opportunity to really grow, develop, and stay with the profession.” -Jaimee Gerrie  Jaimee Gerrie is an Assistant Professor of Nursing for Lake Superior State University in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan. With over 25 years of nursing experience, Jaimee brings a wealth of knowledge related to professional nursing practice in clinical nursing, nursing management and leadership, nursing education, and legal nurse consulting. Jaimee holds national certification from the Institute of Health Care Improvement as a Certified Professional in Patient Safety. She completed a Certificate in Legal Nurse Consulting from Brighton College in 2017. She is a 2011 graduate of Walden University with a Master's in Nursing with a specialized focus on Nursing Management and Leadership. She earned her Baccalaureate in Nursing from Lake Superior State University in 1994. During this time, she has committed her practice to service in rural health.

Welcome to Episode 111 of The Darlington Podcast! In this special episode, listen to Jaclyn Haynes, Upper School science teacher, give her Baccalaureate address on May 12. Haynes was selected by the senior class to serve as the Baccalaureate speaker. In her address, she shares wisdom for the class as they prepared to graduate, encouraging them to focus on their strengths, learn from their failures and lean into curiosity as a catalyst for growth. Click here for complete show notes >>