Podcasts about Drury Lane

Not many people kick off their sobriety journey with a pact made with their mum - but for Ryan and his mum, it worked. And it's transformed both of their lives.For Ryan, the energy he unlocked by quitting drinking didn't just stay bottled up - it burst open a world of new opportunities. And he said yes to all of them.Welcome to The Next Round -the podcast that explores what happens after you change your drinking. Whether you're wondering how to fill all that new free time or feeling supercharged with so many ideas you need help saying no, this show is your source of inspiration for whatever comes next.When Ryan gave up drinking, he didn't just close a door -he opened a portal. What followed wasn't just sobriety, but a full-blown transformation that turned him into a festival-hopping, breathwork-leading, mushroom-coffee-brewing creative force. This is the story of what happens when you say no to booze and yes to everything else.When Ryan gave up drinking, he didn't just close a door -he opened a portal. What followed wasn't just sobriety, but a full-blown transformation that turned him into a festival-hopping, breathwork-leading, mushroom-coffee-brewing creative force. This is the story of what happens when you say no to booze and yes to everything else.Ryan didn't just stop drinking. He and his mum made a pact, and it stuck. It became an anchor that kept him grounded when life threw him curveballs—grief, stress, pressure. And rather than slide back into old habits, he leaned into something new. Actually, many things new.“As soon as I closed that door, every opportunity just fell at my feet.”His first year of sobriety looked nothing like what you might expect. It began with a love story—he met his girlfriend at a sober-friendly community festival. She opened the door to a world of conscious living: breathwork, ice baths, and music-fueled self-exploration.“It was like, okay, here's everything you're going to do: this, this, and this. And you've just got to have the balls to do it.”What followed was a summer of sober festivals, including Medicine Festival and Boom in Portugal—seven days of breathwork, dancing, Kung Fu, and sound healing in the mountains. He wasn't just attending these gatherings. He was performing, drumming with his girlfriend's band, and even leading guided meditations at immersive sound healing events. At Hackney Round Chapel, he took the stage after a 20-year hiatus and led a meditation through the chakra system, paired with a cup of Blue Lotus tea and sacred geometry visuals on the ceiling.“It was the first time I was holding space in that kind of way.”Then came the deepening. He enrolled in an eight-month breathwork facilitator course, digging into trauma, PTSD, and shadow work. He's now running free sessions as part of his training and sees this as part of his longer-term path: helping others—especially men—through sobriety and healing.But his creativity doesn't stop there.“I used to drink quite a fair bit of coffee, but now I've had it with Reishi mushrooms… I've always had a passion for mushrooms.”So he's building “Holy Mush,” a tree-slab-cart-powered mushroom coffee business with a side of kindness and storytelling. Think Lion's Mane espresso served with a dose of human connection. He's also cooking up plans to document his journey on social media using first-person glasses.You can find Ryan's podcast 'Find Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

It was a health scare that pushed Jeff out of his comfort zone. He was diagnosed with a fatty liver at 29.Now he's reversed fatty liver disease and gained an amazing and active personal life.Welcome to the Next Round, when things that scare you have the potential to improve your life in ways you never imagined. Your next round can be more than getting better physically, it can help you create a new point of difference.Meet Jeff Smith, he works in finance by day, a notoriously boozy industry, but in his spare time he now performs improv on stage, jumps into icy fjords, learnt his mother tongue Tagalog, and has even launched a podcast. Most importantly he has reversed a health condition that could have killed him.When Jeff changed his drinking habits, he didn't just remove something from his life- he unlocked a more exciting life and imporved his health to boot!A health scare in his late twenties pushed him to re-evaluate how alcohol fit into his lifestyle. What followed wasn't just abstinence – it was expansion. From improv stages to ecstatic dance and even launching his own podcast, Jeff's life now pulses with more energy, creativity, and meaning than ever before.“It's just such a lazy option to go down the route of the pub when there's so many other things.” The catalyst was a diagnosis: fatty liver. At just 29, Jeff found himself dealing with elevated liver enzymes, fatigue, and unpleasant stomach issues. His drinking wasn't daily, but it was intense – classic binge behavior.“I reached a point where I didn't feel booze was doing anything anymore… I just didn't like that hangover slash low-energy feeling.”The health wake-up call forced him to stop. Cold. But instead of spiraling, he got curious.“You end up having much more free time because I wasn't low energy and didn't feel hungover… and that just made me think, gosh, push yourself out your comfort zone.”His first discovery? A run club that served matcha instead of beer. That led to Club Soda events, then the Social Wellness Club, and eventually a plunge into activities he never imagined himself doing. Like ecstatic dance.“What an amazing way to just be free… you could be any sort of background. And I just thought, this is so damn cool.”Even more surprising for an introvert in the corporate finance world? Improv.“Try improv. That would have scared the living daylights out of me a year and a bit ago… but I've pushed myself out the comfort zone.”Jeff also co-created a podcast with a university friend, “The English Footy Podcast.” With his evenings no longer lost to wine or recovery, he had time and clarity for passion projects. He even began learning Tagalog – his mother's language – fulfilling a long-held desire to connect more deeply with his heritage.But perhaps the most meaningful change came from social confidence.“I just feel more confident in socialising alcohol free and not feeling embarrassed. Just feeling positive about that choice.”Navigating the finance world – a bastion of long-standing drinking culture – hasn't been easy. Jeff still finds pressure in client meetings and among old university friends who knew him as a drinker. But with confidence and a kombucha in hand, he's learned to draw his own line.“It's been a bit of a re-education for some colleagues… but actFind Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

Wurde der bekannte Kinderreim „The Muffin Man“ wirklich gedichtet, um Kinder vor einem gefährlichen Serienmörder zu warnen, der sie mit seinen Backwaren in den Tod lockt? Hat im 16. Jahrhundert wirklich ein Mörder namens Frederick Thomas Lynwood sein Unwesen in der Londoner Drury Lane getrieben? Kommt mit Katharina und Nina auf eine Reise in die Untiefen des Internets und findet heraus was dran ist, an dieser schrecklichen Geschichte. // Die Besprechung des Falles startet bei 5.40 Min. // // Quellen & Shownotes // - Anonymus; Life High & Low; London 1818; https://books.google.de/books?id=matYAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=de&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false - Uncyclopedia; The Muffin Man; https://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/The_Muffin_Man - Dapcevich, M.; Was „Muffin Man“ Song a Warning to Kids about 16th Century Serial Killer?; Artikel auf Snopes vom 12. Januar 2023; https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/muffin-man-song-serial-killer/ - The Londonist; Who Was The Muffin Man That Lived On Drury Lane?; Beitrag vom 30. Januar 2024; https://londonist.com/london/history/muffin-man - BSHistorian; The Muffin Man?, Blogpost vom 12. Februar 2021; https://bshistorian.wordpress.com/2021/02/12/the-muffin-man/ - London Dark Tourist; The Muffin Man Murders: Death in Drury Lane?; Beitrag vom 1. Dezember 2023; https://londondarktourist.com/the-muffin-man/ - Opie; I. & P.; The Singing Game; Oxford 1985 - Twisted Roots: A Genealogist's True Crime Podcast; The Muffin Man Debunked!; Episode vom 7. April 2024; https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-muffin-man-debunked/id1741834780?i=1000661142845 // Folgt uns auf Instagram // https://www.instagram.com/frueher.war.mehr.verbrechen/?hl=de // Karte mit allen „Früher war mehr Verbrechen“-Tatorten // https://bit.ly/2FFyWF6 // Mail //: https://linktr.ee/fwmv // Kaffeekasse //: https://ko-fi.com/fwmvpodcast GEMAfreie Musik von https://audiohub.de

This week's episode is an extended, uncut interview with the one and only, Vanessa Riley. She is the preeminent voice in historical romance and fiction, writing Black characters who feature prominently in Regency Romance. A PhD in Engineering from Stanford and author of well over 25 books, Vanessa combines her love of learning, facts and figures with... well... love.We talk about her process, how she chooses her topics, and what is it about the Regency that she is drawn to.Bio: Vanessa Riley is an acclaimed author known for captivating novels such as Island Queen, a Good Morning America Buzz Pick, and Queen of Exiles, an ABC View Lit Pick. She was honored as the 2024 Georgia Mystery/Detective Author of the year for Murder in Drury Lane and the 2023 Georgia Literary Fiction Author of the Year for Sister Mother Warrior. Her craft highlights hidden narratives of power, love, and sisterhoods of Black women and women of color in historical fiction, romance, and mystery genres. Her works have received praise from publications like the Washington Post, Entertainment Weekly, NPR, Publisher Weekly, and the New York Times. In addition to penning over twenty-five novels, Vanessa holds a doctorate in mechanical engineering from Stanford University and STEM degrees from Penn State, adding a research-oriented approach to her writing while emphasizing inclusive storytelling about the Caribbean, Georgian, and Regency eras. As a member of Regency Fiction Writers, Crime Writers of Color, Mystery Writers of America, Women's Fiction Writers Association, Christian Book Lovers Retreat, and the Historical Novel Society, Vanessa advocates for diverse voices. She's also working to increase Sickle Cell Anemia awareness. When she's not writing, she can be found baking, crafting her Trinidadian grandma's recipes, or relaxing on her southern porch sipping caffeine. For more on Vanessa, visit her website. VanessaRiley.com Follow Romance in Colour on Social MediaIG ⁠@RomanceInColour⁠Twitter: ⁠@RomanceNColour ⁠Facebook Groups: ⁠www.facebook.com/groups/RomanceinColour⁠Follow Yakini on her Instagram @OurNycHomeFollow Tati Richardson on social media and pick up her books here, ⁠here⁠

Anneka has a story many of us recognise — that moment where one drink turns into four, and suddenly you've lost the night again.Like so many, she used alcohol to take the edge off anxiety. It worked — until it didn't.Now, she's alcohol-free and in tune with a completely different kind of energy. She turns to her tarot cards — not just for guidance, but to help others explore their own stories too.Welcome to The Next Round — the podcast that asks what happens after we stop drinking. Maybe you're wondering what's next for you. Who knows — maybe it's written in the cards.Like Anneka Davie, who's turned her passion for tarot into a tool for self-discovery and connection. In this episode, she shares how ditching alcohol opened up a whole new path — and yes, she even pulls a few cards for me.When Anneke Davie stopped drinking, she didn't just give up wine – she made space for something entirely new. A quiet force emerged. It started with crystals, then crept into her life with the pull of tarot cards and the clarity of a new routine that no longer centred around hangovers or hazy memories.She'd always been a binge drinker.“Friday was my big sort of day. But my problem was I couldn't ever stop at one glass no matter how much I tried.”Like many, Anneke believed drinking gave her confidence, especially in social situations, but the next day was always brutal.“I'd be lying in bed crying, couldn't look at my phone. I just felt like everyone I'd been out with probably now hated me.”Her final drink came after a day at the races. Drunk and disoriented, she lost the diamond out of her engagement ring and found herself on hands and knees, scrabbling through the grass.“The next day I just thought, I don't want to do this anymore.”That was three years ago.What came next wasn't just sobriety – it was a reconnection with a part of herself that had been long dormant. As a child, she'd been fascinated by dreams, superstitions and horoscopes. Lockdown gave her the pause she needed to revisit that part of herself. Crystals came first, and soon her house was filled with them – much to the despair of her husband. But then came tarot. She found a reader on Instagram, began training, and started doing readings for herself. The cards became mirrors, windows, and conversation starters.“I use tarot more as helping people get insight into something they're struggling with. It doesn't predict your future. It gives you a bit of a slap in the face about what you already know.”It wasn't long before others began asking for readings, and what started as a hobby slowly began to evolve into something more purposeful. At a retreat, someone asked her for a reading and, despite feeling way out of her comfort zone.The more distance she put between herself and alcohol, the stronger her sense of direction became.“I think actually believing I could do it came once I'd fully stopped drinking.”Find Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

Alcohol affects everyone – no matter who you are or where you're from. Take John  from Ghana. Sound familiar?Today, he's leading the charge for alcohol-free living in Africa – a true trailblazer.Welcome to the next round, where we dig into the stories that shape us. The journeys that brought people to where they are now.Like John Asogonnde – who swapped booze and weed in his   for purpose, passion, and change.We recorded this live during John 's visit to the UK last autumn — so please excuse  the audio quality!When John stopped drinking and smoking weed at 24, he didn't just walk away from substances -he walked into a mission. Five months after taking his last drink, John knew he had changed. He didn't feel like he was missing out. Instead, he felt sharper, more alert, more present. And he wanted to create a space where others could feel that way too.That's how Eden Bar was born -Ghana's first alcohol-free nightlife experience.“I wanted to create an experience for people who wanted to go out and still have a good time, get some nice, sophisticated drinks, cocktails, beers and all of that, but not have to deal with the pressure of alcohol.”Launched on October 2nd, 2022 – World No Alcohol Day – Eden Bar started as a one-day pop-up. John raised money from friends and family after being roasted online for even suggesting the idea. But the launch was a success. Word spread fast, and John knew he was onto something bigger.“There were so many people that came through, the news spread across social media and everything. From there, we were able to do the actual Eden Bar later in December, and that's what we've been building on till date.”John's journey to sobriety was a long one. He started drinking at 13, not because he liked the taste – his first drink was a 40% spirit that gave him a hangover the next day – but because he liked the way it made him feel.“It gave me a false sense of confidence. I was able to move along smoothly in the party scene… It was like an elixir to make me feel more alive.”By the time he reached university, drinking and smoking weed had become daily habits. His grades collapsed. Once a first-class student, he failed every course in his second year.“My hostel became a party headquarters. We didn't do anything apart from party.”Even after relocating to a different hostel, the habits stayed. And when he graduated, he went straight into Ghana's nightlife industry, managing a nightclub for a popular musician. The access to substances was constant – and partaking was expected.“This was a job where even on a Monday morning, I could go to the office, roll up a joint and smoke.”But inside, he was miserable. The high never lasted. The low always deepened. He started to rebuild from the inside out – with faith, family, books, long walks, and intention.You can follow John on @edenbargh but a hard copy of his book on https://joinclubsoda.com/product/john-asogonnde-unchained-book/Find Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

Angie Thompson  grew up in a turbulent home, where shouting, swearing, slammed doors, and harsh words were the norm.But when she quit drinking, she uncovered a truth that changed everything—her past wasn't just something to escape from; it held the key to her transformation.Welcome to The Next Round, where we explore what happens after the last drink—because sometimes, understanding why you drank in the first place is the first step to discovering a new purpose. For Angie, that purpose became clear: by healing herself, she could help others do the same.When Angie Thomson decided to quit drinking, she had no idea it would lead to a complete transformation -not just in her own life, but in the lives of others. Nearly two years into her alcohol-free journey, she's now a trauma-informed coach, guiding people through the deeper reasons behind their drinking.“Take that leap of faith and just go for it. You won't regret it – you'll never look back.”For Angie, sobriety wasn't just about removing alcohol. It was about understanding why she drank in the first place. That realisation pushed her into a new career, one rooted in healing.Finding the ‘Why' Behind the DrinkingAngie describes herself as the life of the party -the first to arrive, the last to leave, always pushing others to drink just as much as she did. But behind the fun-loving image was something deeper.“Drinking was something to stop myself feeling all of that trauma people tend to suppress.”Like many, she didn't initially connect her drinking to her past. She grew up in a volatile household, where shouting and name-calling were the norm. As a child, she internalised it. “We don't think logically as kids. We think, ‘My parents are arguing because of me.'” Those feelings of unworthiness followed her into adulthood, shaping her drinking habits.It wasn't until she stopped drinking that she recognised the underlying wounds that alcohol had been numbing.“Trauma isn't what happens to you. It's what happens inside of you because of what happened to you.” You can find out more about Angie at  angiethompson.thementalwellbeingcompany.com/  and on instagram @AngieMWCFind Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

Looking back it is easy to see how alcohol drains your time, but for a long time Anna couldn't quite admit what the problem was.But Anna is not looking back, and her positive attitude is helpful for us all.Welcome to the next round where we explore how you fill the space once occupied by wine, hangovers, and the mental weight of drinking culture.When Ex advertising exec Anna Donaghey stopped drinking, she found herself with a new problem – time. What do you do with it? For Anna, the answer lay in something she'd been drawn to for years but had never quite pursued – podcasting.“I had many obstacles in my mind—confidence, self-doubt, perfectionism. But just cracking on and doing it proved to be easier than I thought.”Anna launched The Big Drink Rethink, a podcast exploring our relationship with alcohol, the culture around it, and what life can look like without it. It was a creative outlet, a way to channel her curiosity, and, unexpectedly, an anchor that kept her steady in her alcohol-free life.“It keeps me very intact in this world of alcohol freedom, which is very important to me.”But her journey to this point wasn't smooth. It was a long, slow unraveling of drinking habits that had once felt normal, even essential. Anna's story isn't one of dramatic rock bottoms, it's one of creeping dissatisfaction, of realising that drinking wasn't just stealing her time, but also her sense of self.Advertising, Drinking, and a Life on RepeatAnna spent over 25 years in advertising, an industry where drinking wasn't just acceptable – it was expected. She remembers long lunches, late nights, and the endless socialising that blurred into work.“I sometimes think about whether I was attracted to the industry because there was permission within that space to drink.”She wasn't an outlier. Alcohol was woven into the job – client meetings over wine, celebratory drinks, networking events. It was an industry where drinking was both professional and personal, making it even harder to see when it had crossed the line from social to habitual.When she got married, her drinking didn't slow down. In fact, it ramped up. Parenthood brought a new challenge: identity loss. Motherhood was disorienting, and the reality of maternity leave was nothing like the glowing, fulfilling image sold to women.“I found maternity leave deadly dull. I found being a young mum incredibly boring. And I felt shameful that I wasn't reveling in it the way I was ‘supposed' to.”The loneliness, the shift in identity, the quiet grief for the life she had before, Anna managed it the way she had always managed difficult feelings: with wine.“I knew that life had changed forever. I was no longer the advertising girl, but I wasn't quite an established mum. I worried I never would be.”You can find Anna on instagram at bigdrinkrethink and The Big Drink Rethink podcast on all platformsFind Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

Seana spent most of her adult life in a love-hate tango with alcohol. But in writing her story, she unearthed the reasons she drankWelcome to The Next Round – where the things you do after booze can often lead to feelings you never expected and can help the adult you in ways you could never imagined.This week's guest, Seana Smith, set out to document her first year alcohol-free, but in the process, she delved into her childhood- finding answers to questions she never even knew she had.A Life Entangled in AlcoholSeana spent much of her adult life in a push-pull battle with alcohol. On the surface, she was a high-functioning drinker—never the one causing scenes or spiraling visibly out of control. But behind closed doors, she was stuck in a vicious cycle of stopping, starting, berating herself, and repeating the pattern all over again.“I was driving myself absolutely mad – internally. My friends wouldn't have thought I had a big drink problem, but in my own mind, I was trapped.”Her drinking wasn't just about the present—it was rooted in a painful past. Seana grew up in a home overshadowed by addiction and domestic violence. Her father was an alcoholic, and his drinking shaped the way she saw herself, the world, and alcohol itself.“I had a great big push-pull because I didn't want to be like that. But on the other hand, I did want to be like that.”A Legacy of TraumaThe echoes of her father's drinking didn't just haunt her childhood—they followed her into adulthood. As she tried to make sense of her own drinking, she realized she was wrestling with something far bigger than just a bad habit.“I think I was berating myself because I didn't want to behave like Dad had and cause trouble like he had. But it was all caught up in my mind, and I just didn't believe I could ever actually stop permanently.”The turning point came when she lost her mother—a moment that unraveled a lifetime of emotions and unresolved pain. Her father's drinking had defined so much of her childhood, but her mother's silent endurance had shaped her just as much.“I waited until they both died to start writing my story. Growing up, we weren't allowed to talk about what was going on. I didn't feel free to put it down on paper until Mum had passed away.”You can find Seana's book on Amazon and AudibleAmericaAustraliaUKAudibleSpotifyFind Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

For years, Cecilia lived a life dedicated to health and fitness and encouraged others to prioritise their well-being. But one thing didn't align with her values: alcohol.Cecilia didn't drink often, but when she did, she didn't like how it made her feel. It clashed with the lifestyle she professionally advocated.Welcome to the next round—where we explore what happens after people evaluate their relationship with alcohol. Whether you're a daily drinker or an occasional binge drinker, alcohol can affect your life in both physical and psychological ways. Can quitting open up new perspectives?This week's guest, Cecilia Shandeva, a Workplace Wellbeing Professional and Grief Recovery Specialist, proves that no matter where you start, social pressures remain the same—but cutting out alcohol can make a huge difference. While the physical benefits of quitting are clear, the biggest gains may come from the psychological transformation.“Everything about drinking isn't fully aligned with me, who I really am as a person.”For years, Cecilia lived a life dedicated to health and fitness. She ran marathons, led group workouts, and encouraged others to prioritize their well-being. But one thing wasn't aligning with her values: her drinking habits.“I considered myself a social drinker, I'd go out maybe once a month, and sometimes I'd take a break for a couple of months. But then there were times, like around birthdays or Christmas, when I'd drink more than I planned. Even when I thought I was controlling it, I wasn't.”Despite drinking less frequently than some, the impact was undeniable. The hangovers, the anxiety, the lost days of recovery – Cecilia realised that alcohol was taking away from the life she wanted to live.“If I went out planning to have one or two drinks, it would usually end up being more. I was waking up feeling awful, regretting the night before, questioning my decisions – even if I hadn't done anything particularly bad.”Find Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

In this episode, James Marriott and I discuss who we think are the best twenty English poets. This is not the best poets who wrote in English, but the best British poets (though James snuck Sylvia Plath onto his list…). We did it like that to make it easier, not least so we could base a lot of our discussion on extracts in The Oxford Book of English Verse (Ricks edition). Most of what we read out is from there. We read Wordsworth, Keats, Hardy, Milton, and Pope. We both love Pope! (He should be regarded as one of the very best English poets, like Milton.) There are also readings of Herrick, Bronte, Cowper, and MacNiece. I plan to record the whole of ‘The Eve of St. Agnes' at some point soon.Here are our lists and below is the transcript (which may have more errors than usual, sorry!)HOGod Tier* Shakespeare“if not first, in the very first line”* Chaucer* Spenser* Milton* Wordsworth* Eliot—argue for Pope here, not usually includedSecond Tier* Donne* Herbert* Keats* Dryden* Gawain poet* Tom O'Bedlam poetThird Tier* Yeats* Tennyson* Hopkins* Coleridge* Auden* Shelley* MarvellJMShakespeareTier* ShakespeareTier 1* Chaucer* Milton* WordsworthTier 2* Donne* Eliot* Keats* Tennyson* Spencer* Marvell* PopeTier 3* Yeats* Hopkins* Blake* Coleridge* Auden* Shelley* Thomas Hardy* Larkin* PlathHenry: Today I'm talking to James Marriott, Times columnist, and more importantly, the writer of the Substack Cultural Capital. And we are going to argue about who are the best poets in the English language. James, welcome.James: Thanks very much for having me. I feel I should preface my appearance so that I don't bring your podcast and disrepute saying that I'm maybe here less as an expert of poetry and more as somebody who's willing to have strong and potentially species opinions. I'm more of a lover of poetry than I would claim to be any kind of academic expert, just in case anybody thinks that I'm trying to produce any definitive answer to the question that we're tackling.Henry: Yeah, no, I mean that's the same for me. We're not professors, we're just very opinionated boys. So we have lists.James: We do.Henry: And we're going to debate our lists, but what we do agree is that if we're having a top 20 English poets, Shakespeare is automatically in the God Tier and there's nothing to discuss.James: Yeah, he's in a category of his own. I think the way of, because I guess the plan we've gone for is to rather than to rank them 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 into sort of, what is it, three or four broad categories that we're competing over.Henry: Yes, yes. TiersJames: I think is a more kind of reasonable way to approach it rather than trying to argue exactly why it should be one place above Shelly or I don't know, whatever.Henry: It's also just an excuse to talk about poets.James: Yes.Henry: Good. So then we have a sort of top tier, if not the first, in the very first line as it were, and you've got different people. To me, you've got Chaucer, Milton, and Wordsworth. I would also add Spenser and T.S. Eliot. So what's your problem with Spenser?James: Well, my problem is ignorance in that it's a while since I've read the Fairy Queen, which I did at university. Partly is just that looking back through it now and from what I remember of university, I mean it is not so much that I have anything against Spenser. It's quite how much I have in favour of Milton and Wordsworth and Chaucer, and I'm totally willing to be argued against on this, but I just can't think that Spenser is in quite the same league as lovely as many passages of the Fairy Queen are.Henry: So my case for Spenser is firstly, if you go through something like the Oxford Book of English Verse or some other comparable anthology, he's getting a similar page count to Shakespeare and Milton, he is important in that way. Second, it's not just the fairy queen, there's the Shepherd's Calendar, the sonnets, the wedding poems, and they're all highly accomplished. The Shepherd's Calendar particularly is really, really brilliant work. I think I enjoyed that more as an undergraduate, actually, much as I love the Fairy Queen. And the third thing is that the Fairy Queen is a very, very great epic. I mean, it's a tremendous accomplishment. There were lots of other epics knocking around in the 16th century that nobody wants to read now or I mean, obviously specialists want to read, but if we could persuade a few more people, a few more ordinary readers to pick up the fairy queen, they would love it.James: Yes, and I was rereading before he came on air, the Bower of Bliss episode, which I think is from the second book, which is just a beautifully lush passage, passage of writing. It was really, I mean, you can see why Keats was so much influenced by it. The point about Spenser's breadth is an interesting one because Milton is in my top category below Shakespeare, but I think I'm placing him there pretty much only on the basis of Paradise Lost. I think if we didn't have Paradise Lost, Milton may not even be in this competition at all for me, very little. I know. I don't know if this is a heresy, I've got much less time for Milton's minor works. There's Samuel Johnson pretty much summed up my feelings on Lycidas when he said there was nothing new. Whatever images it can supply are long ago, exhausted, and I do feel there's a certain sort of dryness to Milton's minor stuff. I mean, I can find things like Il Penseroso and L'Allegro pretty enough, but I mean, I think really the central achievement is Paradise Lost, whereas Spenser might be in contention, as you say, from if you didn't have the Fairy Queen, you've got Shepherd's Calendar, and all this other sort of other stuff, but Paradise Lost is just so massive for me.Henry: But if someone just tomorrow came out and said, oh, we found a whole book of minor poetry by Virgil and it's all pretty average, you wouldn't say, oh, well Virgil's less of a great poet.James: No, absolutely, and that's why I've stuck Milton right at the top. It's just sort of interesting how unbelievably good Paradise Lost is and how, in my opinion, how much less inspiring the stuff that comes after it is Samson Agonistes and Paradise Regained I really much pleasure out of at all and how, I mean the early I think slightly dry Milton is unbelievably accomplished, but Samuel Johnson seems to say in that quote is a very accomplished use of ancient slightly worn out tropes, and he's of putting together these old ideas in a brilliant manner and he has this sort of, I mean I guess he's one of your late bloomers. I can't quite remember how old he is when he publishes Paradise Lost.Henry: Oh, he is. Oh, writing it in his fifties. Yeah.James: Yeah, this just extraordinary thing that's totally unlike anything else in English literature and of all the poems that we're going to talk about, I think is the one that has probably given me most pleasure in my life and the one that I probably return to most often if not to read all the way through then to just go over my favourite bits and pieces of it.Henry: A lot of people will think Milton is heavy and full of weird references to the ancient world and learned and biblical and not very readable for want of a better word. Can you talk us out of that? To be one of the great poets, they do have to have some readability, right?James: Yeah, I think so, and it's certainly how I felt. I mean I think it's not a trivial objection to have to Milton. It's certainly how I found him. He was my special author paper at university and I totally didn't get on with him. There was something about his massive brilliance that I felt. I remember feeling like trying to write about Paradise Lost was trying to kind of scratch a huge block of marble with your nails. There's no way to get a handle on it. I just couldn't work out what to get ahold of, and it's only I think later in adulthood maybe reading him under a little less pressure that I've come to really love him. I mean, the thing I would always say to people to look out for in Milton, but it's his most immediate pleasure and the thing that still is what sends shivers done my spine about him is the kind of cosmic scale of Paradise Lost, and it's almost got this sort of sci-fi massiveness to it. One of my very favourite passages, which I may inflict on you, we did agree that we could inflict poetry on one another.Henry: Please, pleaseJames: It's a detail from the first book of Paradise Lost. Milton's talking about Satan's architect in hell Mulciber, and this is a little explanation of who or part of his explanation of who Mulciber is, and he says, Nor was his name unheard or unadoredIn ancient Greece; and in Ausonian landMen called him Mulciber; and how he fellFrom Heaven they fabled, thrown by angry JoveSheer o'er the crystal battlements: from mornTo noon he fell, from noon to dewy eve,A summer's day, and with the setting sunDropt from the zenith, like a falling star,On Lemnos, th' Aegaean isle. Thus they relate,ErringI just think it's the sort of total massiveness of that universe that “from the zenith to like a falling star”. I just can't think of any other poet in English or that I've ever read in any language, frankly, even in translation, who has that sort of scale about it, and I think that's what can most give immediate pleasure. The other thing I love about that passage is this is part of the kind of grandeur of Milton is that you get this extraordinary passage about an angel falling from heaven down to th' Aegean Isle who's then going to go to hell and the little parenthetic remark at the end, the perm just rolls on, thus they relate erring and paradise lost is such this massive grand thing that it can contain this enormous cosmic tragedy as a kind of little parenthetical thing. I also think the crystal battlements are lovely, so wonderful kind of sci-fi detail.Henry: Yes, I think that's right, and I think it's under appreciated that Milton was a hugely important influence on Charles Darwin who was a bit like you always rereading it when he was young, especially on the beagle voyage. He took it with him and quotes it in his letters sometimes, and it is not insignificant the way that paradise loss affects him in terms of when he writes his own epic thinking at this level, thinking at this scale, thinking at the level of the whole universe, how does the whole thing fit together? What's the order behind the little movements of everything? So Milton's reach I think is actually quite far into the culture even beyond the poets.James: That's fascinating. Do you have a particular favourite bit of Paradise Lost?Henry: I do, but I don't have it with me because I disorganised and couldn't find my copy.James: That's fair.Henry: What I want to do is to read one of the sonnets because I do think he's a very, very good sonnet writer, even if I'm going to let the Lycidas thing go, because I'm not going to publicly argue against Samuel Johnson.When I consider how my light is spent,Ere half my days, in this dark world and wide,And that one Talent which is death to hideLodged with me useless, though my Soul more bentTo serve therewith my Maker, and presentMy true account, lest he returning chide;“Doth God exact day-labour, light denied?”I fondly ask. But patience, to preventThat murmur, soon replies, “God doth not needEither man's work or his own gifts; who bestBear his mild yoke, they serve him best. His stateIs Kingly. Thousands at his bidding speedAnd post o'er Land and Ocean without rest:They also serve who only stand and wait.”I think that's great.James: Yeah. Okay. It is good.Henry: Yeah. I think the minor poems are very uneven, but there are lots of gems.James: Yeah, I mean he is a genius. It would be very weird if all the minor poems were s**t, which is not really what I'm trying… I guess I have a sort of slightly austere category too. I just do Chaucer, Milton, Wordsworth, but we are agreed on Wordsworth, aren't we? That he belongs here.Henry: So my feeling is that the story of English poetry is something like Chaucer Spenser, Shakespeare, Milton, Wordsworth, T.S. Eliot create a kind of spine. These are the great innovators. They're writing the major works, they're the most influential. All the cliches are true. Chaucer invented iambic pentameter. Shakespeare didn't single handedly invent modern English, but he did more than all the rest of them put together. Milton is the English Homer. Wordsworth is the English Homer, but of the speech of the ordinary man. All these old things, these are all true and these are all colossal achievements and I don't really feel that we should be picking between them. I think Spenser wrote an epic that stands alongside the works of Shakespeare and Milton in words with T.S. Eliot whose poetry, frankly I do not love in the way that I love some of the other great English writers cannot be denied his position as one of the great inventors.James: Yeah, I completely agree. It's funny, I think, I mean I really do love T.S. Eliot. Someone else had spent a lot of time rereading. I'm not quite sure why he hasn't gone into quite my top category, but I think I had this—Henry: Is it because he didn't like Milton and you're not having it?James: Maybe that's part of it. I think my thought something went more along the lines of if I cut, I don't quite feel like I'm going to put John Donne in the same league as Milton, but then it seems weird to put Eliot above Donne and then I don't know that, I mean there's not a very particularly fleshed out thought, but on Wordsworth, why is Wordsworth there for you? What do you think, what do you think are the perms that make the argument for Wordsworth having his place at the very top?Henry: Well, I think the Lyrical Ballads, Poems in Two Volumes and the Prelude are all of it, aren't they? I'm not a lover of the rest, and I think the preface to the Lyrical Ballads is one of the great works of literary criticism, which is another coin in his jar if you like, but in a funny way, he's much more revolutionary than T.S. Eliot. We think of modernism as the great revolution and the great sort of bringing of all the newness, but modernism relies on Wordsworth so much, relies on the idea that tradition can be subsumed into ordinary voice, ordinary speech, the passage in the Wasteland where he has all of them talking in the bar. Closing time please, closing time please. You can't have that without Wordsworth and—James: I think I completely agree with what you're saying.Henry: Yeah, so I think that's for me is the basis of it that he might be the great innovator of English poetry.James: Yeah, I think you're right because I've got, I mean again, waiting someone out of my depth here, but I can't think of anybody else who had sort of specifically and perhaps even ideologically set out to write a kind of high poetry that sounded like ordinary speech, I guess. I mean, Wordsworth again is somebody who I didn't particularly like at university and I think it's precisely about plainness that can make him initially off-putting. There's a Matthew Arnold quote where he says of Wordsworth something like He has no style. Henry: Such a Matthew Arnold thing to say.James: I mean think it's the beginning of an appreciation, but there's a real blankness to words with I think again can almost mislead you into thinking there's nothing there when you first encounter him. But yeah, I think for me, Tintern Abbey is maybe the best poem in the English language.Henry: Tintern Abbey is great. The Intimations of Immortality Ode is superb. Again, I don't have it with me, but the Poems in Two Volumes. There are so many wonderful things in there. I had a real, when I was an undergraduate, I had read some Wordsworth, but I hadn't really read a lot and I thought of I as you do as the daffodils poet, and so I read Lyrical Ballads and Poems in Two Volumes, and I had one of these electrical conversion moments like, oh, the daffodils, that is nothing. The worst possible thing for Wordsworth is that he's remembered as this daffodils poet. When you read the Intimations of Immortality, do you just think of all the things he could have been remembered for? It's diminishing.James: It's so easy to get into him wrong because the other slightly wrong way in is through, I mean maybe this is a prejudice that isn't widely shared, but the stuff that I've never particularly managed to really enjoy is all the slightly worthy stuff about beggars and deformed people and maimed soldiers. Wandering around on roads in the lake district has always been less appealing to me, and that was maybe why I didn't totally get on with 'em at first, and I mean, there's some bad words with poetry. I was looking up the infamous lines from the form that were mocked even at the time where you know the lines that go, You see a little muddy pond Of water never dry. I've measured it from side to side, 'Tis three feet long and two feet wide, and the sort of plainness condescend into banality at Wordsworth's worst moments, which come more frequently later in his career.Henry: Yes, yes. I'm going to read a little bit of the Intimations ode because I want to share some of this so-called plainness at its best. This is the third section. They're all very short Now, while the birds thus sing a joyous song,And while the young lambs boundAs to the tabor's sound,To me alone there came a thought of grief:A timely utterance gave that thought relief,And I again am strong:The cataracts blow their trumpets from the steep;No more shall grief of mine the season wrong;I hear the Echoes through the mountains throng,The Winds come to me from the fields of sleep,And all the earth is gay;Land and seaGive themselves up to jollity,And with the heart of MayDoth every Beast keep holiday;—Thou Child of Joy,Shout round me, let me hear thy shouts, thou happy Shepherd-boy.And I think it's unthinkable that someone would write like this today. It would be cringe, but we're going to have a new sincerity. It's coming. It's in some ways it's already here and I think Wordsworth will maybe get a different sort of attention when that happens because that's a really high level of writing to be able to do that without it descending into what you just read. In the late Wordsworth there's a lot of that really bad stuff.James: Yeah, I mean the fact that he wrote some of that bad stuff I guess is a sign of quite how carefully the early stuff is treading that knife edge of tripping into banality. Can I read you my favourite bit of Tintern Abbey?Henry: Oh yes. That is one of the great poems.James: Yeah, I just think one of mean I, the most profound poem ever, probably for me. So this is him looking out over the landscape of Tinton Abbey. I mean these are unbelievably famous lines, so I'm sure everybody listening will know them, but they are so good And I have feltA presence that disturbs me with the joyOf elevated thoughts; a sense sublimeOf something far more deeply interfused,Whose dwelling is the light of setting suns,And the round ocean and the living air,And the blue sky, and in the mind of man:A motion and a spirit, that impelsAll thinking things, all objects of all thought,And rolls through all things. Therefore am I stillA lover of the meadows and the woodsAnd mountains; and of all that we beholdFrom this green earth; of all the mighty worldOf eye, and ear,—both what they half create,And what perceive; well pleased to recogniseIn nature and the language of the senseThe anchor of my purest thoughts, the nurse,The guide, the guardian of my heart, and soulOf all my moral being.I mean in a poem, it's just that is mind blowingly good to me?Henry: Yeah. I'm going to look up another section from the Prelude, which used to be in the Oxford Book, but it isn't in the Ricks edition and I don't really know whyJames: He doesn't have much of the Prelude does he?Henry: I don't think he has any…James: Yeah.Henry: So this is from an early section when the young Wordsworth is a young boy and he's going off, I think he's sneaking out at night to row on the lake as you do when you with Wordsworth, and the initial description is of a mountain. She was an elfin pinnace; lustilyI dipped my oars into the silent lake,And, as I rose upon the stroke, my boatWent heaving through the water like a swan;When, from behind that craggy steep till thenThe horizon's bound, a huge peak, black and huge,As if with voluntary power instinct,Upreared its head. I struck and struck again,And growing still in stature the grim shapeTowered up between me and the stars, and still,For so it seemed, with purpose of its ownAnd measured motion like a living thing,Strode after me. With trembling oars I turned,And through the silent water stole my wayBack to the covert of the willow tree;It's so much like that in Wordsworth. It's just,James: Yeah, I mean, yeah, the Prelude is full of things like that. I think that is probably one of the best moments, possibly the best moments of the prelude. But yeah, I mean it's just total genius isn't it?Henry: I think he's very, very important and yeah, much more important than T.S. Eliot who is, I put him in the same category, but I can see why you didn't.James: You do have a little note saying Pope, question mark or something I think, don't you, in the document.Henry: So the six I gave as the spine of English literature and everything, that's an uncontroversial view. I think Pope should be one of those people. I think we should see Pope as being on a level with Milton and Wordsworth, and I think he's got a very mixed reputation, but I think he was just as inventive, just as important. I think you are a Pope fan, just as clever, just as moving, and it baffles me that he's not more commonly regarded as part of this great spine running through the history of English literature and between Milton and Wordsworth. If you don't have Pope, I think it's a missing link if you like.James: I mean, I wouldn't maybe go as far as you, I love Pope. Pope was really the first perch I ever loved. I remember finding a little volume of Pope in a box of books. My school library was chucking out, and that was the first book of poetry I read and took seriously. I guess he sort of suffers by the fact that we are seeing all of this through the lens of the romantics. All our taste about Shakespeare and Milton and Spenser has been formed by the romantics and hope's way of writing the Satires. This sort of society poetry I think is just totally doesn't conform to our idea of what poetry should be doing or what poetry is. Is there absolutely or virtually nobody reads Dryden nowadays. It's just not what we think poetry is for that whole Augustine 18th century idea that poetry is for writing epistles to people to explain philosophical concepts to them or to diss your enemies and rivals or to write a kind of Duncia explaining why everyone you know is a moron. That's just really, I guess Byron is the last major, is the only of figure who is in that tradition who would be a popular figure nowadays with things like English bards and scotch reviewers. But that whole idea of poetry I think was really alien to us. And I mean I'm probably formed by that prejudice because I really do love Pope, but I don't love him as much as the other people we've discussed.Henry: I think part of his problem is that he's clever and rational and we want our poems always to be about moods, which may be, I think why George Herbert, who we've both got reasonably high is also quite underrated. He's very clever. He's always think George Herbert's always thinking, and when someone like Shakespeare or Milton is thinking, they do it in such a way that you might not notice and that you might just carry on with the story. And if you do see that they're thinking you can enjoy that as well. Whereas Pope is just explicitly always thinking and maybe lecturing, hectoring, being very grand with you and as you say, calling you an idiot. But there are so many excellent bits of Pope and I just think technically he can sustain a thought or an argument over half a dozen or a dozen lines and keep the rhyme scheme moving and it's never forced, and he never has to do that thing where he puts the words in a stupid order just to make the rhyme work. He's got such an elegance and a balance of composition, which again, as you say, we live under romantic ideals, not classical ones. But that doesn't mean we should be blind to the level of his accomplishment, which is really, really very high. I mean, Samuel Johnson basically thought that Alexander Pope had finished English poetry. We have the end of history. He had the end of English poetry. Pope, he's brought us to the mightiest of the heroic couplers and he's done it. It's all over.James: The other thing about Pope that I think makes us underrate him is that he's very charming. And I think charm is a quality we're not big on is that sort of, but I think some of Pope's charm is so moving. One of my favourite poems of his is, do you know the Epistle to Miss Blount on going into the country? The poem to the young girl who's been having a fashionable season in London then is sent to the boring countryside to stay with an aunt. And it's this, it's not like a romantic love poem, it's not distraught or hectic. It's just a sort of wonderful act of sympathy with this potentially slightly airheaded young girl who's been sent to the countryside, which you'd rather go to operas and plays and flirt with people. And there's a real sort of delicate in it that isn't overblown and isn't dramatic, but is extremely charming. And I think that's again, another quality that perhaps we're prone not to totally appreciate in the 21st century. It's almost the kind of highest form of politeness and sympathyHenry: And the prevailing quality in Pope is wit: “True wit is nature to advantage dressed/ What often was thought, but ne'er so well expressed”. And I think wit can be quite alienating for an audience because it is a kind of superior form of literary art. This is why people don't read as much Swift as he deserves because he's so witty and so scornful that a lot of people will read him and think, well, I don't like you.James: And that point about what oft was thought and ne'er so well expressed again, is a very classical idea. The poet who puts not quite conventional wisdom, but something that's been thought before in the best possible words, really suffers with the romantic idea of originality. The poet has to say something utterly new. Whereas for Pope, the sort of ideas that he express, some of the philosophical ideas are not as profound in original perhaps as words with, but he's very elegant proponent of them.Henry: And we love b******g people in our culture, and I feel like the Dunciad should be more popular because it is just, I can't remember who said this, but someone said it's probably the most under appreciated great poem in English, and that's got to be true. It's full of absolute zingers. There's one moment where he's described the whole crowd of them or all these poets who he considers to be deeply inferior, and it turns out he was right because no one reads them anymore. And you need footnotes to know who they are. I mean, no one cares. And he says, “equal your merits, equal is your din”. This kind of abuse is a really high art, and we ought to love that. We love that on Twitter. And I think things like the Rape of the Lock also could be more popular.James: I love the Rape of the Lock . I mean, I think anybody is not reading Pope and is looking for a way in, I think the Rape of the Lock is the way in, isn't it? Because it's just such a charming, lovely, funny poem.Henry: It is. And probably it suffers because the whole idea of mock heroic now is lost to us. But it's a bit like it's the literary equivalent of people writing a sort of mini epic about someone like Elon Musk or some other very prominent figure in the culture and using lots of heroic imagery from the great epics of Homer and Virgil and from the Bible and all these things, but putting them into a very diminished state. So instead of being grand, it becomes comic. It's like turning a God into a cartoon. And Pope is easily the best writer that we have for that kind of thing. Dryden, but he's the genius on it.James: Yeah, no, he totally is. I guess it's another reason he's under appreciated is that our culture is just much less worshipful of epic than the 18th century culture was. The 18th century was obsessed with trying to write epics and trying to imitate epics. I mean, I think to a lot of Pope's contemporaries, the achievement they might've been expecting people to talk about in 300 years time would be his translations of the Iliad and the Odyssey and the other stuff might've seen more minor in comparison, whereas it's the mock epic that we're remembering him for, which again is perhaps another symptom of our sort of post romantic perspective.Henry: I think this is why Spenser suffers as well, because everything in Spenser is magical. The knights are fairies, not the little fairies that live in buttercups, but big human sized fairies or even bigger than that. And there are magical women and saucers and the whole thing is a sort of hodgepodge of romance and fairy tale and legend and all this stuff. And it's often said, oh, he was old fashioned in his own time. But those things still had a lot of currency in the 16th century. And a lot of those things are in Shakespeare, for example.But to us, that's like a fantasy novel. Now, I love fantasy and I read fantasy, and I think some of it's a very high accomplishment, but to a lot of people, fantasy just means kind of trash. Why am I going to read something with fairies and a wizard? And I think a lot of people just see Spenser and they're like, what is this? This is so weird. They don't realise how Protestant they're being, but they're like, this is so weird.James: And Pope has a little, I mean, the Rape of the Lock even has a little of the same because the rape of the lock has this attendant army of good spirits called selfs and evil spirits called gnomes. I mean, I find that just totally funny and charming. I really love it.Henry: I'm going to read, there's an extract from the Rape of the Lock in the Oxford Book, and I'm going to read a few lines to give people an idea of how he can be at once mocking something but also quite charming about it. It's quite a difficult line to draw. The Rape of the Lock is all about a scandalous incident where a young man took a lock of a lady's hair. Rape doesn't mean what we think it means. It means an offence. And so because he stole a lock of her hair, it'd become obviously this huge problem and everyone's in a flurry. And to sort of calm everyone down, Pope took it so seriously that he made it into a tremendous joke. So here he is describing the sort of dressing table if you like.And now, unveil'd, the Toilet stands display'd,Each silver Vase in mystic order laid.First, rob'd in white, the Nymph intent adores,With head uncover'd, the Cosmetic pow'rs.A heav'nly image in the glass appears,To that she bends, to that her eyes she rears;Th' inferior Priestess, at her altar's side,Trembling begins the sacred rites of Pride.What a way to describe someone putting on their makeup. It's fantastic.James: It's funny. I can continue that because the little passage of Pope I picked to read begins exactly where yours ended. It only gets better as it goes on, I think. So after trembling begins the sacred rites of pride, Unnumber'd treasures ope at once, and hereThe various off'rings of the world appear;From each she nicely culls with curious toil,And decks the Goddess with the glitt'ring spoil.This casket India's glowing gems unlocks,And all Arabia breathes from yonder box.The Tortoise here and Elephant unite,Transformed to combs, the speckled, and the white.Here files of pins extend their shining rows,Puffs, Powders, Patches, Bibles, Billet-doux.It's just so lovely. I love a thing about the tortoise and the elephant unite because you've got a tortoise shell and an ivory comb. And the stuff about India's glowing gems and Arabia breathing from yonder box, I mean that's a, realistic is not quite the word, but that's a reference to Milton because Milton is continually having all the stones of Arabia and India's pearls and things all screwed through paradise lost. Yeah, it's just so lovely, isn't it?Henry: And for someone who's so classical and composed and elegant, there's something very Dickensian about things like the toilet, the tortoise and the elephant here unite, transform to combs. There's something a little bit surreal and the puffs, powders, patches, bibles, it has that sort of slightly hectic, frantic,James: That's sort of Victorian materialism, wealth of material objects,Henry: But also that famous thing that was said of Dickens, that the people are furniture and the furniture's like people. He can bring to life all the little bits and bobs of the ordinary day and turn it into something not quite ridiculous, not quite charming.James: And there is a kind of charm in the fact that it wasn't the sort of thing that poets would necessarily expect to pay attention to the 18th century. I don't think the sort of powders and ointments on a woman's dressing table. And there's something very sort of charming in his condescension to notice or what might've once seemed his condescension to notice those things, to find a new thing to take seriously, which is what poetry or not quite to take seriously, but to pay attention to, which I guess is one of the things that great perch should always be doing.Henry: When Swift, who was Pope's great friend, wrote about this, he wrote a poem called A Beautiful Young Lady Going to Bed, which is not as good, and I would love to claim Swift on our list, but I really can't.James: It's quite a horrible perm as well, that one, isn't it?Henry: It is. But it shows you how other people would treat the idea of the woman in front of her toilet, her mirror. And Swift uses an opportunity, as he said, to “lash the vice” because he hated all this adornment and what he would think of as the fakery of a woman painting herself. And so he talks about Corina pride of Drury Lane, which is obviously an ironic reference to her being a Lady of the Night, coming back and there's no drunken rake with her. Returning at the midnight hour;Four stories climbing to her bow'r;Then, seated on a three-legged chair,Takes off her artificial hair:Now, picking out a crystal eye,She wipes it clean, and lays it by.Her eye-brows from a mouse's hide,Stuck on with art on either side,Pulls off with care, and first displays 'em,Then in a play-book smoothly lays 'em.Now dexterously her plumpers draws,That serve to fill her hollow jaws.And it goes on like this. I mean, line after this is sort of raw doll quality to it, Pope, I think in contrast, it only illuminates him more to see where others are taking this kind of crude, very, very funny and witty, but very crude approach. He's able to really have the classical art of balance.James: Yes. And it's precisely his charm that he can mock it and sympathise and love it at the same time, which I think is just a more sort of complex suite of poetic emotions to have about that thing.Henry: So we want more people to read Pope and to love Pope.James: Yes. Even if I'm not letting him into my top.Henry: You are locking him out of the garden. Now, for the second tier, I want to argue for two anonymous poets. One of the things we did when we were talking about this was we asked chatGPT to see if it could give us a good answer. And if you use o1 or o1 Pro, it gives you a pretty good answer as to who the best poets in English are. But it has to be told that it's forgotten about the anonymous poets. And then it says, oh, that was stupid. There are quite a lot of good anonymous poets in English, but I suspect a lot of us, a lot of non artificial intelligence when thinking about this question overlook the anonymous poets. But I would think the Gawain poet and the Tom O' Bedlam poet deserve to be in here. I don't know what you think about that.James: I'm not competent to provide an opinion. I'm purely here to be educated on the subject of these anonymous poets. Henry: The Gawain poet, he's a mediaeval, assume it's a he, a mediaeval writer, obviously may well not be a man, a mediaeval writer. And he wrote Sir Gawain and The Green Knight, which is, if you haven't read it, you should really read it in translation first, I think because it's written at the same time as Chaucer. But Chaucer was written in a kind of London dialect, which is what became the English we speak. And so you can read quite a lot of Chaucer and the words look pretty similar and sometimes you need the footnotes, but when you read Gawain and The Green Knight, it's in a Northwestern dialect, which very much did not become modern day English. And so it's a bit more baffling, but it is a poem of tremendous imaginative power and weirdness. It's a very compelling story. We have a children's version here written by Selena Hastings who's a very accomplished biographer. And every now and then my son remembers it and he just reads it again and again and again. It's one of the best tales of King Arthur in his knights. And there's a wonderful book by John Burrow. It's a very short book, but that is such a loving piece of criticism that explicates the way in which that poem promotes virtue and all the nightly goodness that you would expect, but also is a very strange and unreal piece of work. And I think it has all the qualities of great poetry, but because it's written in this weird dialect, I remember as an undergraduate thinking, why is this so bloody difficult to read? But it is just marvellous. And I see people on Twitter, the few people who've read it, they read it again and they just say, God, it's so good. And I think there was a film of it a couple of years ago, but we will gloss lightly over that and not encourage you to do the film instead of the book.James: Yeah, you're now triggering a memory that I was at least set to read and perhaps did at least read part of Gawain and the Green Knight at University, but has not stuck to any brain cells at all.Henry: Well, you must try it again and tell me what you think. I mean, I find it easily to be one of the best poems in English.James: Yeah, no, I should. I had a little Chaucer kick recently actually, so maybe I'm prepared to rediscover mediaeval per after years of neglect since my degree,Henry: And it's quite short, which I always think is worth knowing. And then the Tom Bedlam is an anonymous poem from I think the 17th century, and it's one of the mad songs, so it's a bit like the Fool from King Lear. And again, it is a very mysterious, very strange and weird piece of work. Try and find it in and read the first few lines. And I think because it's anonymous, it's got slightly less of a reputation because it can't get picked up with some big name, but it is full of tremendous power. And again, I think it would be sad if it wasn't more well known.From the hag and hungry goblinThat into rags would rend ye,The spirit that stands by the naked manIn the Book of Moons defend ye,That of your five sound sensesYou never be forsaken,Nor wander from your selves with TomAbroad to beg your bacon,While I do sing, Any food, any feeding,Feeding, drink, or clothing;Come dame or maid, be not afraid,Poor Tom will injure nothing.Anyway, so you get the sense of it and it's got many stanzas and it's full of this kind of energy and it's again, very accomplished. It can carry the thought across these long lines and these long stanzas.James: When was it written? I'm aware of only if there's a name in the back of my mind.Henry: Oh, it's from the 17th century. So it's not from such a different time as King Lear, but it's written in the voice of a madman. And again, you think of that as the sort of thing a romantic poet would do. And it's strange to find it almost strange to find it displaced. There were these other mad songs. But I think because it's anonymous, it gets less well known, it gets less attention. It's not part of a bigger body of work, but it's absolutely, I think it's wonderful.James: I shall read it.Henry: So who have you got? Who else? Who are you putting in instead of these two?James: Hang on. So we're down to tier two now.Henry: Tier two.James: Yeah. So my tier two is: Donne, Elliot, Keats, Tennyson. I've put Spenser in tier two, Marvell and Pope, who we've already discussed. I mean, I think Eliot, we've talked about, I mean Donne just speaks for himself and there's probably a case that some people would make to bump him up a tier. Henry: Anybody can read that case in Katherine Rudell's book. We don't need to…James: Yes, exactly. If anybody's punching perhaps in tier two, it's Tennyson who I wasn't totally sure belonged there. Putting Tenon in the same tier as Donne and Spenser and Keets. I wonder if that's a little ambitious. I think that might raise eyebrows because there is a school of thought, which I'm not totally unsympathetic to this. What's the Auden quote about Tennyson? I really like it. I expressed very harshly, but I sort of get what he means. Auden said that Tennyson “had the finest ear perhaps of any English poet who was also undoubtedly the stupidest. There was little that he didn't know. There was little else that he did.” Which is far too harsh. But I mentioned to you earlier that I think was earlier this year, a friend and I had a project where we were going to memorise a perva week was a plan. We ended up basically getting, I think three quarters of the way through.And if there's a criticism of Tennyson that you could make, it's that the word music and the sheer lushness of phrases sometimes becomes its own momentum. And you can end up with these extremely lovely but sometimes slightly empty beautiful phrases, which is what I ended up feeling about Tithonus. And I sort of slightly felt I was memorising this unbelievably beautiful but ever so slightly hollow thing. And that was slightly why the project fell apart, I should say. Of course, they absolutely love Tennyson. He's one of my all time favourite poets, which is why my personal favouritism has bumped him up into that category. But I can see there's a case, and I think to a lot of people, he's just the kind of Victorian establishment gloom man, which is totally unfair, but there's not no case against Tennyson.Henry: Yeah, the common thing is that he has no ideas. I don't know if that's true or not. I'm also, I'm not sure how desperately important it is. It should be possible to be a great poet without ideas being at the centre of your work. If you accept the idea that the essence of poetry is invention, i.e. to say old things in a fantastically new way, then I think he qualifies very well as a great poet.James: Yes..Henry: Well, very well. I think Auden said what he said because he was anxious that it was true of himself.James: Yeah, I mean there's a strong argument that Auden had far too many ideas and the sorts of mad schemes and fantastical theories about history that Auden spent his spare time chasing after is certainly a kind of argument that poets maybe shouldn't have as many ideas, although it's just reading. Seamus Perry's got a very good little book on Tennyson, and the opening chapter is all about arguments about people who have tended to dislike Tennyson. And there are all kinds of embarrassing anecdotes about the elderly Tennyson trying to sort of go around dinner parties saying profound and sage-like things and totally putting his foot in it and saying things are completely banal. I should have made a note that this was sort of slightly, again, intensifying my alarm about is there occasionally a tinsely hollowness about Tennyson. I'm now being way too harsh about one of my favourite poets—Henry: I think it depends what you mean by ideas. He is more than just a poet of moods. He gives great expression, deep and strongly felt expression to a whole way of being and a whole way of conceiving of things. And it really was a huge part of why people became interested in the middle ages in the 19th century. I think there's Walter Scott and there's Tennyson who are really leading that work, and that became a dominant cultural force and it became something that meant a lot to people. And whether or not, I don't know whether it's the sort of idea that we're talking about, but I think that sort of thing, I think that qualifies as having ideas and think again, I think he's one of the best writers about the Arthurian legend. Now that work doesn't get into the Oxford Book of English Verse, maybe that's fair. But I think it was very important and I love it. I love it. And I find Tennyson easy to memorise, which is another point in his favour.James: Yeah.Henry: I'm going to read a little bit of Ulysses, which everyone knows the last five or six lines of that poem because it gets put into James Bond films and other such things. I'm going to read it from a little bit from earlier on. I am become a name;For always roaming with a hungry heartMuch have I seen and known; cities of menAnd manners, climates, councils, governments,Myself not least, but honour'd of them all;And drunk delight of battle with my peers,Far on the ringing plains of windy Troy.I am a part of all that I have met;Yet all experience is an arch wherethro'Gleams that untravell'd world, whose margin fadesFor ever and for ever when I move.I think that's amazing. And he can do that. He can do lots and lots and lots of that.James: Yeah, he really can. It's stunning. “Far on the ringing planes of windy Troy” is such an unbelievably evocative phrase.Henry: And that's what I mean. He's got this ability to bring back a sort of a whole mood of history. It's not just personal mood poetry. He can take you into these places and that is in the space of a line. In the space of a line. I think Matthew Arnold said of the last bit of what I just read is that he had this ability in Ulysses to make the lines seem very long and slow and to give them this kind of epic quality that far goes far beyond the actual length of that poem. Ulysses feels like this huge poem that's capturing so much of Homer and it's a few dozen lines.James: Yeah, no, I completely agree. Can I read a little bit of slightly more domestic Tennyson, from In Memoriam, I think his best poem and one of my all time favourite poems and it's got, there are many sort of famous lines on grief and things, but there's little sort of passage of natural description I think quite near the beginning that I've always really loved and I've always just thought was a stunning piece of poetry in terms of its sound and the way that the sound has patented and an unbelievably attentive description natural world, which is kind of the reason that even though I think Keats is a better poet, I do prefer reading Tennyson to Keats, so this is from the beginning of In Memoriam. Calm is the morn without a sound,Calm as to suit a calmer grief,And only thro' the faded leafThe chesnut pattering to the ground:Calm and deep peace on this high wold,And on these dews that drench the furze,And all the silvery gossamersThat twinkle into green and gold:Calm and still light on yon great plainThat sweeps with all its autumn bowers,And crowded farms and lessening towers,To mingle with the bounding main:And I just think that's an amazing piece of writing that takes you from that very close up image that it begins with of the “chestnut patterning to the ground” through the faded leaves of the tree, which is again, a really attentive little bit of natural description. I think anyone can picture the way that a chestnut might fall through the leaves of a chestnut tree, and it's just an amazing thing to notice. And I think the chestnut pattern to the ground does all the kind of wonderful, slightly onomatopoeic, Tennyson stuff so well, but by the end, you're kind of looking out over the English countryside, you've seen dew on the firs, and then you're just looking out across the plane to the sea, and it's this sort of, I just think it's one of those bits of poetry that anybody who stood in a slightly wet and romantic day in the English countryside knows exactly the feeling that he's evoking. And I mean there's no bit of—all of In Memoriam is pretty much that good. That's not a particularly celebrated passage I don't think. It's just wonderful everywhere.Henry: Yes. In Memoriam a bit like the Dunciad—under appreciated relative to its huge merits.James: Yeah, I think it sounds, I mean guess by the end of his life, Tennyson had that reputation as the establishment sage of Victorian England, queen of Victoria's favourite poet, which is a pretty off-putting reputation for to have. And I think In Memoriam is supposed to be this slightly cobwebby, musty masterpiece of Victorian grief. But there was just so much, I mean, gorgeous, beautiful sensuous poetry in it.Henry: Yeah, lots of very intense feelings. No, I agree. I have Tennyson my third tier because I had to have the Gawain poet, but I agree that he's very, very great.James: Yeah, I think the case for third tier is I'm very open to that case for the reasons that I said.Henry: Keats, we both have Keats much higher than Shelly. I think Byron's not on anyone's list because who cares about Byron. Overrated, badly behaved. Terrible jokes. Terrible jokes.James: I think people often think Byron's a better pert without having read an awful lot of the poetry of Byron. But I think anybody who's tried to wade through long swathes of Don Juan or—Henry: My God,James: Childe Harold, has amazing, amazing, beautiful moments. But yeah, there's an awful lot of stuff that you don't enjoy. I think.Henry: So to make the case for Keats, I want to talk about The Eve of St. Agnes, which I don't know about you, but I love The Eve of St. Agnes. I go back to it all the time. I find it absolutely electric.James: I'm going to say that Keats is a poet, which is kind of weird for somebody is sent to us and obviously beautiful as Keats. I sort of feel like I admire more than I love. I get why he's brilliant. It's very hard not to see why he's brilliant, but he's someone I would very rarely sit down and read for fun and somebody got an awful lot of feeling or excitement out of, but that's clearly a me problem, not a Keats problem.Henry: When I was a teenager, I knew so much Keats by heart. I knew the whole of the Ode to a Nightingale. I mean, I was absolutely steeped in it morning, noon and night. I couldn't get over it. And now I don't know if I could get back to that point. He was a very young poet and he writes in a very young way. But I'm going to read—The Eve of St. Agnes is great. It's a narrative poem, which I think is a good way to get into this stuff because the story is fantastic. And he had read Spenser, he was part of this kind of the beginning of this mediaeval revival. And he's very interested in going back to those old images, those old stories. And this is the bit, I think everything we're reading is from the Oxford Book of English Verse, so that if people at home want to read along they can.This is when the heroine of the poem is Madeline is making her escape basically. And I think this is very, very exciting. Her falt'ring hand upon the balustrade,Old Angela was feeling for the stair,When Madeline, St. Agnes' charmed maid,Rose, like a mission'd spirit, unaware:With silver taper's light, and pious care,She turn'd, and down the aged gossip ledTo a safe level matting. Now prepare,Young Porphyro, for gazing on that bed;She comes, she comes again, like ring-dove fray'd and fled.Out went the taper as she hurried in;Its little smoke, in pallid moonshine, died:She clos'd the door, she panted, all akinTo spirits of the air, and visions wide:No uttered syllable, or, woe betide!But to her heart, her heart was voluble,Paining with eloquence her balmy side;As though a tongueless nightingale should swellHer throat in vain, and die, heart-stifled, in her dell.A casement high and triple-arch'd there was,All garlanded with carven imag'riesOf fruits, and flowers, and bunches of knot-grass,And diamonded with panes of quaint device,Innumerable of stains and splendid dyes,As are the tiger-moth's deep-damask'd wings;And in the midst, 'mong thousand heraldries,And twilight saints, and dim emblazonings,A shielded scutcheon blush'd with blood of queens and kings.I mean, so much atmosphere, so much tension, so many wonderful images just coming one after the other. The rapidity of it, the tumbling nature of it. And people often quote the Ode to autumn, which has a lot of that.James: I have to say, I found that totally enchanting. And perhaps my problem is that I need you to read it all to me. You can make an audio book that I can listen to.Henry: I honestly, I actually might read the whole of the E and put it out as audio on Substack becauseJames: I would actually listen to that.Henry: I love it so much. And I feel like it gets, when we talk about Keats, we talk about, On First Looking into Chapman's Homer and Bright Star and La Belle Dame Sans Merci, and these are great, great poems and they're poems that we do at school Ode to a Nightingale because I think The Great Gatsby has a big debt to Ode to a Nightingale, doesn't it? And obviously everyone quotes the Ode to Autumn. I mean, as far as I can tell, the 1st of October every year is the whole world sharing the first stands of the Ode to Autumn.James: Yeah. He may be one of the people who suffers from over familiarity perhaps. And I think also because it sounds so much what poetry is supposed to sound like, because so much of our idea of poetry derives from Keats. Maybe that's something I've slightly need to get past a little bit.Henry: But if you can get into the complete works, there are many, the bit I just read is I think quite representative.James: I loved it. I thought it was completely beautiful and I would never have thought to ever, I probably can't have read that poem for years. I wouldn't have thought to read it. Since university, I don't thinkHenry: He's one of those people. All of my copies of him are sort of frayed and the spines are breaking, but the book is wearing out. I should just commit it to memory and be done. But somehow I love going back to it. So Keats is very high in my estimation, and we've both put him higher than Shelly and Coleridge.James: Yeah.Henry: Tell me why. Because those would typically, I think, be considered the superior poets.James: Do you think Shelly? I think Keats would be considered the superior poetHenry: To Shelly?James: Certainly, yes. I think to Shelly and Coleridge, that's where current fashion would place them. I mean, I have to say Coleridge is one of my all time favourite poets. In terms of people who had just every so often think, I'd love to read a poem, I'd love to read Frost at Midnight. I'd love to read the Aeolian Harp. I'd love to read This Lime Tree Bower, My Prison. I'd love to read Kubla Khan. Outside Milton, Coleridge is probably the person that I read most, but I think, I guess there's a case that Coleridge's output is pretty slight. What his reputation rest on is The Rime of the Ancient Mariner, Kubla Khan, the conversation poems, which a lot of people think are kind of plagiarised Wordsworth, at least in their style and tone, and then maybe not much else. Does anybody particularly read Cristabel and get much out of it nowadays? Dejection an Ode people like: it's never done an awful lot for me, so I sort of, in my personal Pantheon Coleridge is at the top and he's such an immensely sympathetic personality as well and such a curious person. But I think he's a little slight, and there's probably nothing in Coleridge that can match that gorgeous passage of Keats that you read. I think.Henry: Yeah, that's probably true. He's got more ideas, I guess. I don't think it matters that he's slight. Robert Frost said something about his ambition had been to lodge five or six poems in the English language, and if he'd done that, he would've achieved greatness. And obviously Frost very much did do that and is probably the most quotable and well-known poet. But I think Coleridge easily meets those criteria with the poems you described. And if all we had was the Rime of the Ancient Mariner, I would think it to be like Tom O' Bedlam, like the Elegy in a Country Churchyard, one of those great, great, great poems that on its own terms, deserves to be on this list.James: Yeah, and I guess another point in his favour is a great poet is they're all pretty unalike. I think if given Rime of the Ancient Mariner, a conversation poem and Kubla Khan and said, guess whether these are three separate poets or the same guy, you would say, oh, there's a totally different poems. They're three different people. One's a kind of creepy gothic horror ballad. Another one is a philosophical reflection. Another is the sort of Mad Opium dream. I mean, Kubla Khan is just without a doubt, one of the top handful of purposes in English language, I think.Henry: Oh yeah, yeah. And it has that quality of the Elegy in a Country Churchyard that so many of the lines are so quotable in the sense that they could be, in the case of the Elegy in a Country Churchyard, a lot of novels did get their titles from it. I think it was James Lees Milne. Every volume of his diaries, which there are obviously quite a few, had its title from Kubla Khan. Ancient as the Hills and so on. It's one of those poems. It just provides us with so much wonderful language in the space of what a page.James: Sort of goes all over the place. Romantic chasms, Abyssinian made with dulcimer, icy pleasure dome with caves of ice. It just such a—it's so mysterious. I mean, there's nothing else remotely like it at all in English literature that I can think of, and its kind strangeness and virtuosity. I really love that poem.Henry: Now, should we say a word for Shelly? Because everyone knows Ozymandias, which is one of those internet poems that goes around a lot, but I don't know how well known the rest of his body of work is beyond that. I fell in love with him when I read a very short lyric called “To—” Music, when soft voices die,Vibrates in the memory—Odours, when sweet violets sicken,Live within the sense they quicken.Rose leaves, when the rose is dead,Are heaped for the belovèd's bed;And so thy thoughts, when thou art gone,Love itself shall slumber on.I found that to be one of those poems that was once read and immediately memorised. But he has this very, again, broad body of work. He can write about philosophical ideas, he can write about moods, he can write narrative. He wrote Julian and Maddalo, which is a dialogue poem about visiting a madman and taking sympathy with him and asking the question, who's really mad here? Very Swiftian question. He can write about the sublime in Mont Blanc. I mean, he has got huge intellectual power along with the beauty. He's what people want Tennyson to be, I guess.James: Yeah. Or what people think Byron might be. I think Shelly is great. I don't quite get that Byron is so much more famous. Shelly has just a dramatic and, well, maybe not quite just as, but an incredibly dramatic and exciting life to go along with it,Henry: I think some of the short lyrics from Byron have got much more purchase in day-to-day life, like She Walks in Beauty.James: Yeah. I think you have to maybe get Shelly a little more length, don't you? I mean, even there's something like Ode to the West Wind is you have to take the whole thing to love it, perhaps.Henry: Yes. And again, I think he's a bit like George Herbert. He's always thinking you really have to pay attention and think with him. Whereas Byron has got lots of lines you can copy out and give to a girl that you like on the bus or something.James: Yes. No, that's true.Henry: I don't mean that in quite as rude a way as it sounds. I do think that's a good thing. But Shelly's, I think, much more of a thinker, and I agree with you Childe Harold and so forth. It's all crashing bore. I might to try it again, but awful.James: I don't want move past Coledridge without inflicting little Coledridge on you. Can I?Henry: Oh, yes. No, sorry. We didn't read Coledridge, right?James: Are just, I mean, what to read from Coledridge? I mean, I could read the whole of Kubla Khan, but that would be maybe a bit boring. I mean, again, these are pretty famous and obvious lines from Frost at Midnight, which is Coledridge sitting up late at night in his cottage with his baby in its cradle, and he sort of addressing it and thinking about it. And I just think these lines are so, well, everything we've said about Coledridge, philosophical, thoughtful, beautiful, in a sort of totally knockout, undeniable way. So it goes, he's talking to his young son, I think. My babe so beautiful! it thrills my heartWith tender gladness, thus to look at thee,And think that thou shalt learn far other lore,And in far other scenes! For I was rearedIn the great city, pent 'mid cloisters dim,And saw nought lovely but the sky and stars.But thou, my babe! shalt wander like a breezeBy lakes and sandy shores, beneath the cragsOf ancient mountain, and beneath the clouds,Which image in their bulk both lakes and shoresAnd mountain crags: so shalt thou see and hearThe lovely shapes and sounds intelligibleOf that eternal language, which thy GodUtters, who from eternity doth teachHimself in all, and all things in himself.Which is just—what aren't those lines of poetry doing? And with such kind of confidence, the way you get from talking to your baby and its cradle about what kind of upbringing you hope it will have to those flashes of, I mean quite Wordsworthian beauty, and then the sort of philosophical tone at the end. It's just such a stunning, lovely poem. Yeah, I love it.Henry: Now we both got Yeats and Hopkins. And Hopkins I think is really, really a tremendous poet, but neither of us has put Browning, which a lot of other people maybe would. Can we have a go at Browning for a minute? Can we leave him in shreds? James: Oh God. I mean, you're going to be a better advocate of Browning than I am. I've never—Henry: Don't advocate for him. No, no, no.James: We we're sticking him out.Henry: We're sticking him.James: I wonder if I even feel qualified to do that. I mean, I read quite a bit of Browning at university, found it hard to get on with sometimes. I think I found a little affected and pretentious about him and a little kind of needlessly difficult in a sort of off-puttingly Victorian way. But then I was reading, I reviewed a couple of years ago, John Carey has an excellent introduction to English poetry. I think it's called A Little History of Poetry in which he described Browning's incredibly long poem, The Ring in the Book as one of the all time wonders of verbal art. This thing is, I think it's like 700 or 800 pages long poem in the Penguin edition, which has always given me pause for thought and made me think that I've dismissed Browning out of hand because if John Carey's telling me that, then I must be wrong.But I think I have had very little pleasure out of Browning, and I mean by the end of the 19th century, there was a bit of a sort of Victorian cult of Browning, which I think was influential. And people liked him because he was a living celebrity who'd been anointed as a great poet, and people liked to go and worship at his feet and stuff. I do kind of wonder whether he's lasted, I don't think many people read him for pleasure, and I wonder if that maybe tells its own story. What's your case against Browning?Henry: No, much the same. I think he's very accomplished and very, he probably, he deserves a place on the list, but I can't enjoy him and I don't really know why. But to me, he's very clever and very good, but as you say, a bit dull.James: Yeah, I totally agree. I'm willing. It must be our failing, I'm sure. Yeah, no, I'm sure. I'm willing to believe they're all, if this podcast is listened to by scholars of Victorian poetry, they're cringing and holding their head in their hands at this—Henry: They've turned off already. Well, if you read The Ring and the Book, you can come back on and tell us about it.James: Oh God, yeah. I mean, in about 20 years time.Henry: I think we both have Auden, but you said something you said, “does Auden have an edge of fraudulence?”James: Yeah, I mean, again, I feel like I'm being really rude about a lot of poets that I really love. I don't really know why doesn't think, realising that people consider to be a little bit weak makes you appreciate their best stuff even more I guess. I mean, it's hard to make that argument without reading a bit of Auden. I wonder what bit gets it across. I haven't gotten any ready. What would you say about Auden?Henry: I love Auden. I think he was the best poet of the 20th century maybe. I mean, I have to sort of begrudgingly accept T.S. Eliot beside, I think he can do everything from, he can do songs, light lyrics, comic verse, he can do occasional poetry, obituaries. He was a political poet. He wrote in every form, I think almost literally that might be true. Every type of stanza, different lines. He was just structurally remarkable. I suspect he'll end up a bit like Pope once the culture has tur

Tabbin is on a mission to shake up booze-soaked workplace culture -but her own journey with alcohol was anything but smooth. After going alcohol-free for years, a cancer diagnosis sent her back to the bottle, even though drinking may have played a role in her illness.Like so many, her drinking started at work – where long lunches and late nights weren't just accepted but expected. Now, she's challenging the norms that make alcohol a workplace staple, so others don't fall into the same trap.Welcome to The Next Round, where we dive into why we started drinking, how that history shapes our future, and what an alcohol-free life can really look like. From personal challenges to changing the world (or at least your office happy hour), there's more on the other side than you ever imagined.Meet Tabbin Almond -an ex-advertising pro who knows firsthand how the industry's macho, drink-fuelled culture can spiral out of control. She yo-yoed between sobriety and drinking for years, but now she's free and fighting to create healthier, more inclusive workplaces. Let's get stuck in!She believes that drinking should not be an expectation in corporate environments, nor should it be a measure of professional success or sociability.“It starts out as a perk of the job, but it becomes a requirement of the job.”For years, she worked in industries where drinking was not only normalised but encouraged. Client entertainment meant keeping up with drinking expectations, and refusing a drink could be seen as a lack of team spirit.“Do you check with somebody before you send a gift, whether or not they drink alcohol? The most common reply is, no, who doesn't love a bottle of bubbly?”She challenges workplaces to rethink corporate gifting, expense policies, and the psychological safety of employees who may struggle with alcohol. She argues that alcohol should not be the default, nor should abstaining from it come with stigma.“If leaders don't lead on this, there's no psychological safety for people saying, ‘Do you think I could have a bit of help?'”You can buy Tabbin's Book: Bottling Up Trouble: How alcohol is harming your business… and what to do about itUKUSACanadaAustraliaFind Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

Hattie may be a clear-headed, cold-water queen these days, but getting here was harder than mastering butterfly stroke! Even pregnancy didn't create the clean break from alcohol she had hoped for.And despite a few trials with moderation along the way, she now knows—this time, sobriety is for good.Welcome to The Next Round—the podcast about the bold, brilliant, and sometimes downright bonkers things people do after quitting booze. But remember, folks, you don't have to freeze your bits off to get sober!Unlike this week's guest, Hattie, who prefers being neck-deep in icy water rather than in booze. She kicked off her journey with the Dry January Challenge, and alongside a whole lot of learning and reflection, she's now alcohol-free and bouyant.Finding Peace in the WaterFor Hattie Underwood, cold water swimming is more than just a pastime – it's a sanctuary. The icy plunge slows everything down, giving her a rare sense of hyper-focus and clarity.“I just feel really hyper-focused. And, you know, afterwards, I just feel so energised by them.”Her love for swimming started young, training competitively for Southampton. But it was her mother, an avid swimmer in Hampshire's rivers and along the South Coast, who instilled a love for wild swimming. As she embarked on her sobriety journey, this practice took on new meaning.“It quietens my mind in a way that nothing else does. I just feel so in the moment.”Living in London, Hattie became a member of an ice bath club, pushing her limits and embracing the mental resilience required to withstand freezing temperatures.“It's a bit of mind over matter going into it. But I just love it.”A Relationship with Alcohol That Had to ChangeDespite a successful life on paper, Hattie's relationship with alcohol had always been problematic. From sneaking drinks in school to drinking alone before socialising, she felt an intense need for alcohol to function socially. The dependency escalated over time, leading to morning drinking and a fear of being ‘found out.'“I would drink before seeing anybody, even if they were a really close friend.”When she became pregnant, she assumed nine months of abstinence would change her relationship with alcohol. However, once her child was born, she quickly fell back into old patterns.“Even with nine months of not drinking, nothing had changed, and in fact, it had picked right back up where it had left off. And it just got so much worse.”Find Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

rWotD Episode 2831: The Apparition (play) Welcome to Random Wiki of the Day, your journey through Wikipedia’s vast and varied content, one random article at a time.The random article for Sunday, 2 February 2025 is The Apparition (play).The Apparition: or, The Sham Wedding is a 1713 British comedy play written by an anonymous author.It premiered at the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane in London. The original cast included Henry Norris as Sir Tristram Getall, William Bullock as Sir Thomas Etherside, John Bowman as Mendwell, Barton Booth as Welford, John Mills as Friendly, James Spiller as Foist, George Pack as Plotwell, Susanna Mountfort as Aurelia, Hester Santlow as Clarinda and Margaret Saunders as Buisy.This recording reflects the Wikipedia text as of 00:07 UTC on Sunday, 2 February 2025.For the full current version of the article, see The Apparition (play) on Wikipedia.This podcast uses content from Wikipedia under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License.Visit our archives at wikioftheday.com and subscribe to stay updated on new episodes.Follow us on Mastodon at @wikioftheday@masto.ai.Also check out Curmudgeon's Corner, a current events podcast.Until next time, I'm neural Stephen.

When Gavin quit drinking, he didn't expect to gain listening skills—but he's embraced his new life with open arms!Now, you can't stop him from filling his time with meaningful activities.Welcome to the next round: exploring life after quitting drinking and discovering the many ways to find purpose—like helping others.This week, meet Gavin Chase, care industry recruiter by day and Samaritan volunteer by night. Through volunteering, Gavin has honed new skills, found deep purpose, and even become a role model for others.Gavin Chase's story is one of transformation and dedication—a journey marked by his decision to quit drinking, his commitment to volunteering, and his belief in living a life of purpose. Far from leaving his corporate job, Gavin's spare time is dedicated to initiatives that complement his professional life and fulfill his personal aspirations.“Sobriety isn't just about saying no; it's about saying yes to a better life.”Gavin's decision to quit drinking was a pivotal moment in his life.“It wasn't just about giving up alcohol; it was about reclaiming my life”The journey to sobriety was not without its challenges, but it profoundly shaped who he is today.“You start to see the world differently. It's like waking up from a fog.”This newfound clarity and energy have allowed him to focus on what truly matters, inspiring others to consider the transformative potential of a sober lifestyle.Volunteering with the SamaritansOne of the most profound aspects of Gavin's journey is his dedication to volunteering with the Samaritans, a charity that offers support to those in emotional distress.“Being there for someone in their darkest moments is humbling.” His work with the Samaritans has given him a deep sense of purpose and perspective.“While I'm there to help others, I've learned so much about empathy, resilience, and the strength of the human spirit.”This experience has reinforced his belief in the importance of listening and being present for others—lessons that resonate in every aspect of his life.“Service has a way of bringing out the best in you.”This candid insight highlights Gavin's belief in the transformative power of giving. He describes volunteering as a grounding force, one that reminds him of what truly matters.Beyond his role with the Samaritans, Gavin is actively involved in other community initiatives. From mentoring young people to supporting local environmental projects, his volunteering efforts are diverse and impactful.“Helping others isn't just a responsibility—it's a privilege” Gavin's volunteering not only enriches his life but also allows him to build meaningful relationships with people from all walks of life.Overcoming Challenges and Finding PurposeNo personal transformation is without its hurdles, and Gavin's was no exception. From self-doubt to navigating the complexities of balancing work and volunteering, he has faced his share of challenges.“What keeps you going is the belief that what you're building matters.” For Gavin, purpose extends beyond personal achievements. Whether through mentoring, supporting community projects, or sharing his story of sobriety, his focus remains on leaving a lasting impact.“Your journey doesn't have to look like anyone else's.”This powerful reminder underscores Gavin's belFind Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

For the past 25 years, Marie Morice has been at the forefront of global climate change, and with some big shifts in her life, including quitting drinking she has added gender initiatives and campaigning within organisations such as the UN to her passions. She has now retrained as a clinical sexologist and uses her skills to support individuals as well as wider systems change.Today, Marie helps women rediscover their sexual agency and pleasure. Her journey to this point has been anything but linear, but it was quitting alcohol that catalysed her transformation. Now post-menopause and living a life full of clarity and energy, Marie is a walking testament to the power of change.“There's a Life Energy in Me That I've Never Had”Marie's relationship with alcohol was intense. As she puts it:“It was part of my celebrations and my commiserations. Let's have a drink—no matter what.”Over the years, however, her body began reacting less and less well to alcohol, something that became especially apparent as she went through hormonal changes during menopause. Despite several attempts to take breaks from drinking, she always found herself returning to it.But a heavy night a year and a half ago was the turning point.“I woke up and thought, I can't do this anymore. I can't keep waking up knowing I'll feel hungover in two or three days. My life was being wasted.”For Marie, it wasn't about hitting rock bottom but rather a constellation of factors—the end of a long-term relationship, a desire to invest in her work helping women, and a need to prioritise her health and energy.Giving up alcohol wasn't easy, but the rewards have been profound.“There's a life energy in me that I've never had, or maybe that I had but was tamed by alcohol, – I have a clarity now that I didn't know I was missing. It's incredible.”Reclaiming Pleasure and AgencyMarie's journey away from alcohol coincided with her decision to retrain as a coach. Originally inspired by friends and family who praised her listening skills, she realised her true passion lay in helping others on a deeply personal level. While her early coaching clients brought a range of issues to her, many women came to her seeking guidance on their sexuality. That's when Marie decided to specialise as a sex coach and clinical sexologist.“Our relationship to pleasure is so important. For many women, it's fraught with guilt, whether that's related to drinking or societal expectations. The first thing I work on with my clients is understanding their relationship to pleasure—not just sexual pleasure, but pleasure in life.”Marie believes that for women, especially those in midlife, this work is vital.“As we go through menopause, there's a natural reevaluation of who we are and what we want. It's a chance to reconnect with our bodies and desires.”And she's quick to emphasise that pleasure is a skill that can be relearned.“It's about creating new pathways to joy. What gives you pleasure? It could be anything, from a quiet moment of doing nothing to an incredible orgasm. The point is to explore.”Find Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

Socialising and networking alcohol-free can be tough—even for the pros. But for Narmeen, it's a choice she's never looked back on.Now, she's shaking up the events industry, challenging organisers and caterers to rethink how they cater to guests. Her mission? To make events more inclusive and ensure everyone feels part of the party, regardless of what's in their glass.

Alasdair Gill has a passion for cooking and an abundance of creativity. However, years of working in hospitality and drinking heavily left him facing a difficult decision—one he took reluctantly, despite a dire prognosis.His advice is valuable for everyone, no matter where you are in your relationship with alcohol.Welcome to the next round, where I talk to people who have inspired me—not just with the changes they've made to their drinking habits, but with what they've gone on to achieve next. From reigniting old passions with renewed vigour to making bold life and career changes, there's no template. What you do next is entirely up to you!Alasdair Gill is now a private chef. Since rehab, he has rediscovered the skills and passion for cheffing that he developed early in his career, building a new way of working that aligns with who he is today. His story is a powerful reminder that the things you loved before life fell apart can still be part of your future.Alasdair Gill's journey from battling addiction to becoming a successful private chef is a powerful testament to resilience and reinvention. His story highlights the challenges of working in hospitality while struggling with alcohol and drug dependency and how recovery transformed not only his outlook on life but also his career.The Beginning of the Journey: Struggles in HospitalityFor Alasdair, the hospitality industry was both a lifeline and a trap. He describes the kitchens and bars he worked in as a “pressure cooker,” a space that both attracted and enabled his struggles with alcohol.“Hospitality is accepting of what you are—it will take us in.”While kitchens initially provided a way to earn money, Alasdair admits they didn't spark joy or passion.“For a long time, it was just about making money. There wasn't much love there,” The Turning Point: RecoveryThe tipping point came when Alasdair faced severe health issues, including cirrhosis of the liver, and was told he wouldn't survive to see Christmas. Even then, his decision to enter rehab was reluctant.“I didn't want to live, but I didn't want to die either. I was in between—a numbness of fine.”Rehab became the space where Alasdair could pause, reflect, and start to piece his life back together.“It gave me a sober mind for the first time since I was 15. Suddenly, I started questioning whether what I'd been doing was normal.”Finding Purpose Through CookingPost-recovery, Alasdair returned to the one industry where he had experience -hospitality. But this time, he approached it differently. Together with a friend who was also in recovery, Alasdair launched a private catering business.“Every gig is a completely different adventure, and I love that,” Sobriety has not only allowed Alasdair to rebuild his life but also to rediscover creativity and care in his craft.“I give much more of a shit about the product than the paycheck,”Book Alasdair at gordonandgill.co.ukFind Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

Earlier this week, Mickey-Jo finally caught THE TEMPEST at Theatre Royal, Drury Lane in the West End. This William Shakespeare play is produced in a new production by director Jamie Lloyd and stars Sigourney Weaver as Prospero, with Mason Alexander Park, Forbess Mason, Mathew Horne, and more. Check out this full review to find out what Mickey-Jo thought of this show, and don't forget to share your thoughts in the comments! • 00:00 | introduction 02:53 | synopsis 08:08 | my verdict 11:40 | creative choices 21:11 | performances • About Mickey-Jo: As one of the leading voices in theatre criticism on a social platform, Mickey-Jo is pioneering a new medium for a dwindling field. His YouTube channel: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠MickeyJoTheatre⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is the largest worldwide in terms of dedicated theatre criticism, where he also share features, news and interviews as well as lifestyle content for over 60,000 subscribers. Since establishing himself as a theatre critic he has been able to work internationally. With a viewership that is largely split between the US and the UK he has been fortunate enough to be able to work with PR, Marketing, and Social Media representatives for shows in New York, London, Edinburgh, Hamburg, Toronto, Sao Pãolo, and Paris. He has also twice received accreditation from the world renowned Edinburgh Festival Fringe. His reviews and features have also been published by WhatsOnStage, for whom he was a panelist to help curate nominees for their 2023 and 2024 Awards as well as BroadwayWorldUK, Musicals Magazine and LondonTheatre.co.uk. He has been invited to speak to private tour groups, at the BEAM 2023 new musical theatre conference at Oxford Playhouse, and on a panel of critics at an event for young people considering a career in the arts courtesy of Go Live Theatre Projects. Instagram/TikTok/X: @MickeyJoTheatre

After quitting alcohol, Michelle Righini has dedicated herself to championing the wellbeing and skills of hospitality staff.On The Next Round podcast, we dive into life after quitting drinking—especially for those in hospitality, where alcohol is often center stage. What's next if you love the industry but not the booze?Michelle, founder of We Recover Loudly, joins us to share her mission: creating a supportive space for drinks professionals who've ditched alcohol but not their passion for hospitality. Let's talk change, advocacy, and keeping talent thriving!You can find Michelle instagram @werecoverloudly.“The thing that we put down is alcohol, but we don't put down our creativity, our minds, our drive to make great drinks.”This is a rallying cry for the hospitality industry to rethink its relationship with alcohol from Michelle. Creativity and skill are at the heart of what makes this industry thrive, and neither depends on the presence of alcohol. Removing it doesn't mean losing artistry—it means opening up new possibilities.Hospitality  Culture: Why Is Addiction So Prevalent?“What we're not doing yet is going, why are we an industry that has such high levels of addiction? To be a good manager, you have to be able to drink? Like, what? What other industry does that make sense in?”The hospitality sector has long celebrated a culture of drinking, but this norm raises significant questions about its impact on mental health and job performance. Changing these outdated perceptions is crucial to creating a more sustainable industry.Sober Weekends and Smug Mornings“Weekends are my favourite time to be sober because I get to do the thing I love the most, which is be smug. I get to wake up very smug at about eight o'clock and look at my life and go, this is a great choice.”Sobriety transforms weekends from blurry recoveries to opportunities for enjoyment and reflection. This shift underscores the profound personal benefits of a life without alcohol.The Cost of Industry Norms“I slowly started to realise that alcohol was becoming the thing that was holding me together.”For many in hospitality, alcohol becomes a crutch rather than a tool for connection. The realisation that it's holding people back rather than propelling them forward is a pivotal moment in the journey toward change.Addiction and the Industry's “Throwaway” Culture“When that line is crossed, so many of us just get thrown away, and that, for me, just never sat right.”The industry's tendency to discard talent once addiction becomes visible is a tragic waste. Recovery and reintegration need to be prioritized to retain valuable employees and demonstrate compassion.See the full blog here.Find Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

Denise has produced 18 editions of her new magazine dedicated to low and no alcohol drinks. Something she would never have considered if she had no re-evaluated her relationship with alcohol.Welcome to the next round, where we speak to people about the next stage of their life once they have reviewed how alcohol impacts them.You don't have to be totally alcohol-free to gain benefits from rethinking your drinking. But as this week's guest Denise Hamilton Mace has shown, you need to have a determination to change your life, and some ideas to get going with.Denise has moderated her drinking habits, which led her to a degree in sports fitness and then she got brave, and started writing – something she was told way back when, that she may not be suited to. We love it when a guest proves their nay sayers wrong!Exploring the Low and No Alcohol Revolution: Denise's Journey of Discovery and InnovationThe rise of low and no alcohol options is transforming how we think about drinking, and Denise's story provides a unique perspective on this cultural shift. As a hospitality professional turned advocate for mindful drinking and editor of Low and No Drinker magazine, Denise shares her journey of personal growth, career transformation, and creative exploration.Redefining Life Through Moderating Alcohol For Denise, the decision to cut back on alcohol wasn't a dramatic turning point but a series of realisations. “I started to notice how alcohol affected me over time. It wasn't just the hangovers; it was the brain fog, the mood swings, and feeling like I wasn't operating at my full capacity”Her journey began with small lifestyle changes.“I stopped eating red meat because it made me feel moody, and alcohol was the next thing I recognized as not serving me.”Denise emphasises that she doesn't identify as teetotal or in recovery but rather someone who found more balance by drinking less.“It's about discovering who you want to be and whether alcohol helps or hinders that.”Find Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

Welcome to “The Next Round,” where we explore the remarkable stories of those who found new beginnings once they stopped seeking answers at the bottom of the bottle. Today's episode is a reflection on recovery, redemption, and the power of turning the past into a foundation for the future.For some, the journey to the other side can feel like a wall between who they were and who they've become. But perhaps, just perhaps, the life they once lived holds the key to the one they're building now.In this episode, we meet Paul Bayes Kitcher, a man who never lost his love for dance. On the other side of recovery, he found himself uniquely placed to channel its transformative power—helping others navigate their own recoveries from addiction or mental health challenges through movement and artistry.Along with Claire Morris he co-founded Fallen Angels Dance Theatre (FADT) in 2011, fostering creativity and using dance to transform lives.In this podcast Josh Kelly, our brand manager who himself used to be a dancer interviews Paul. He shares his story, the life-changing work of his organisation,offering a future through dance. It's a story of resilience, creativity, and the beautiful steps forward when we reclaim what once felt lost. Find out more  you how you can join them or support their work by becoming a guardian angel.Fallen Angels Dance Theatre (FADT) has become a powerful symbol of transformation and hope, helping individuals in recovery from addiction and trauma reconnect with their bodies and rediscover joy. Founded by Paul Byers Kitchen, a former professional ballet dancer and someone in long-term recovery, FADT merges the therapeutic power of movement with the artistic discipline of dance. Over the past decade, it has grown into a flourishing community, offering a safe and creative space for people to heal and thrive.A Journey from Ballet to RecoveryPaul's story is one of both brilliance and struggle. Trained at world-renowned institutions such as the Royal Ballet School and Rambert, he had a successful career with companies like Scottish Ballet and Birmingham Royal Ballet. Yet behind the scenes, unresolved childhood trauma and the relentless pressures of the ballet world led him into addiction.“I never felt comfortable in my own skin – Alcohol and drugs became my solution—a way to escape myself.”Despite his talent and dedication, the demands of perfectionism combined with his personal struggles led him to resign from Birmingham Royal Ballet at 30. Without the structure of his career, his addiction spiraled into chaos.Through recovery, Paul found clarity and purpose. He realised the therapeutic potential of movement for people in recovery and began developing what would eventually become Fallen Angels Dance Theatre.The Birth of Fallen Angels Dance TheatreEstablished over 10 years ago, FADT was born from Paul's passion for recovery and his deep understanding of movement. Recognising that the word “dance” might intimidate some, particularly those unfamiliar with formal training, Paul instead emphasizes “movement.”“Everyone can move. We start with natural movement and somatic practices, creating a space where people feel safe to explore their bodies and emotions.”Read the full blog   Find Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

When Xiomara Wimmer decided to give up drinking, she didn't just change her life—she found herself becoming part of an alcohol-free super couple.Little did she know that sharing her journey alongside her husband would turn into a mission that's now helping countless others navigate socialising alcohol-free.Welcome to The Next Round, the podcast where we dive into the inspiring stories of people who've redefined their lives by changing their relationship with alcohol. From mending relationships to taking on life-changing challenges, the possibilities are endless when booze is no longer center stage.In this episode, we meet Xiomara, a trailblazer in the alcohol-free community. Since embracing an alcohol-free lifestyle, she and her husband have inspired countless others by sharing their journey on their social platform—showing how vibrant and connected life can be without alcohol. Now, Xiomara is taking her mission even further, leading empowering workshops designed to help others socialise with confidence, authenticity, and joy in an alcohol-free world.You can find xiomara and Patrick @theafcoupleFor Xiomara and her husband Patrick, alcohol was a common element in their relationship—until they realised it was holding them back. When they decided to give up drinking, everything changed. It wasn't just about cutting out alcohol; it was about rediscovering their connection, their purpose, and their shared passions.A Life-Changing DecisionXiomara and Patrick, also known as The AF Couple, shared their story of going alcohol-free over two and a half years ago. For years, they enjoyed their life together but noticed that alcohol often brought unnecessary conflict and tension into their relationship. While it wasn't always the source of their problems, it tended to amplify any existing issues.Finally, they reached a breaking point. They decided to remove alcohol from their lives completely. The result? A newfound clarity in their relationship and their communication.Building an Alcohol-Free Life TogetherGoing alcohol-free is a personal journey, but for Xiomara and Patrick, it was also a shared one. They chose to navigate this path side by side, creating a unique and powerful dynamic. “We've always been told we're a beautiful couple, but when alcohol was involved, that didn't always align.”  Xiomara WimmerBy quitting together, they strengthened their bond and rediscovered what made them such a great team.They now share their journey on their Instagram account, @theafcouple, where they document the highs and lows of their alcohol-free lifestyle. Their posts reflect the reality of sobriety, showcasing both the good and the messy moments, inspiring others to reconsider their relationship with alcohol.Follow Xiomara and Patrick's journey on Instagram at @theafcouple, and discover how an alcohol-free lifestyle can open up a world of possibilities.Find Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

Welcome to The Next Round – the podcast that celebrates the journey to your next chapter. Because let's face it, getting there isn't always smooth sailing. It might be a little bumpy, just like Clare's story—but here's the thing: it's absolutely possible.In this series, we dive into the highs, the lows, and the game-changing transformations of people who've decided to reimagine their relationship with drinking. It's not just about what they've left behind—it's about what's next.

In this podcast, anaesthetist and breathwork expert James Brunning shared the story of his journey away from alcohol and towards a life of emotional clarity, mindfulness, and gentle peace. From using breathwork as a way to manage anxiety and support his relationships, James now brings his expertise into the wellness space, helping others find calm through simple yet powerful techniques.The Impact of Alcohol on Presence and ConnectionJames's relationship with alcohol began like many of ours—woven into social events and family traditions. However, he noticed over time that drinking wasn't just impacting his mornings; it was pulling him away from being present for those he loved. Reflecting on a relationship crunch point, James realised that alcohol was taking a toll on his mental energy and emotional availability. This revelation prompted him to make a change, finding support through Club Soda's mindful drinking community.“I wasn't my whole self, and I wasn't able to give emotional clarity to myself or my wife.”James BrunningEmbracing Breathwork and the Science of CalmJame's Next Round saw his immersion in breathwork. As a trained anesthetist, James was already familiar with the physiological impacts of breath on anxiety reduction and heart rate control. His studies in hypnosis further deepened his understanding, leading him to see breathwork as “meditation without the effort and twice the effect.”Breathwork leverages the vagus nerve, one of the largest nerves in the body, which regulates heart rate and stress levels. By practicing controlled breathing—such as extending exhales—James found he could manage his anxiety effectively. This practice became especially valuable in his professional life, where he helped patients calm down before surgery by guiding them in breathing exercises.The Power of Mindfulness and Finding “Gentle Peace”Removing alcohol from his life, James noticed a reduction in what he calls “background anxiety,” a heightened state of alertness and tension he'd previously taken for granted. Breathwork allowed him to tap into a sense of calm and clarity he'd never experienced before. This transformation was both personal and powerful, giving him what he describes as a “gentle peace” that replaced the anxious energy alcohol once fueled.James's approach to breathwork now goes beyond self-care; he's dedicated to sharing this knowledge with others, helping them find clarity and calm through accessible techniques. His mantra is simple: “A few minutes of breathwork can make a massive difference.”Bringing Breathwork to OthersJames's journey now involves spreading awareness about the impact of mindful breathing on mental and physical well-being. He has started wellness workshops and courses for Doctors, sharing techniques that benefit everyone—from those seeking anxiety management to individuals interested in boosting their mitochondrial fitness and overall oxygen utilisation.For those looking to begin, James recommends starting with extended exhales and brief breath holds, practices that activate the body's natural relaxation response. He gave Laura a demonstration on the podcast!“There's good science behind it,. Eveen a few minutes of daily breath work can have on one's mood, energy, and outlook on life."James BrunningSee the full blog on joinclubsoda.comFind James on Instagram.Find Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

It was great to have this conversation with Shaun Reany, a performance poet, advocate for mindful living and founder of the Sober Af Poetry Night. He opened up about his journey through sobriety, creativity, and self-acceptance. He has used his experiences with mental health struggles and personal growth as a foundation for creating safe, non-judgmental spaces for self-expression. His story reflects the power of poetry and public speaking to help navigate complex emotions and foster a supportive community.From Self-Investigation to SobrietyShaun's journey toward sobriety started with a deep introspection after an incident that shocked him, and nearly got him into big trouble.  He wanted to reconcile his true self with his actions. Therapy played a crucial role, allowing him to unpack years of cognitive dissonance—feeling disconnected from his values while under the influence of alcohol. After a long process, Shaun found clarity: to achieve the life he truly desired, he had to let go of alcohol. This decision marked the final piece of his puzzle, setting him on a path of self-discovery and acceptance.Creativity Unleashed: Poetry as a Healing ToolThrough writing and performing, Shaun found an outlet for expressing the emotions he previously struggled to confront. His poetry, initially inspired by song lyrics and personal reflections, became a therapeutic vehicle for self-understanding. Contrary to the myth that creativity thrives on substances, Shaun's sober reflections have brought newfound depth and honesty to his work, proving that authenticity can drive powerful artistic expression.Building a Judgment-Free CommunityIn January, Shaun launched *Sober AF Poetry Club*, an open mic event that offers a judgment-free environment for people to share their stories. Here, individuals from all walks of life present works that range from lighthearted humor to profound self-reflection, often touching on personal experiences with mental health, family dynamics, and sobriety. The club's inclusive nature fosters a community where vulnerability is met with support, offering attendees a rare chance to connect over shared challenges.Looking Ahead: The Unscripted JourneyShaun's future remains open, driven by a commitment to personal growth and creative exploration. While he acknowledges the value of planning, he emphasises staying true to what feels right, allowing each step to shape his path organically. For Shaun, the journey is about doing what brings him joy, from writing to creating safe spaces for others to express themselves authentically.As Shaun continues to explore his creative potential, his story reminds us that embracing change and supporting one another can lead to unexpected and meaningful transformations.Find the Sober Af Poetry Club on Instagram and dates for next events here.Find Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

Paul goes behind the curtain with the multi-talented jazz artist Bryan Eng. Bryan grew up on the east coast but found his musical grounding at Northwestern University and Chicago where he worked as a street musician, performer at Marriot Lincolnshire, Lookingglass Theatre, and Drury Lane and went on to the great venues of Kennedy Center, Lincoln Center, Birdland Jazz […]

Live from the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane, Dan, James, Anna and Andy discuss failure, theatrics, fraud and a highly litigious member of the Trump family.   Visit nosuchthingasafish.com for news about live shows, merchandise and more episodes. Join Club Fish for ad-free episodes and exclusive bonus content at apple.co/nosuchthingasafish or nosuchthingasafish.com/patreon

Victoria Vanstone is best known for the Sober Awkward Podcast. A candid and humorous podcast co-hosted with Hamish Adams-Cairns. The duo dives into the ups and downs of living an alcohol-free life, sharing personal stories, practical advice, and the awkward moments that come with sobriety. It won Best Wellbeing Podcast award at the British Podcast Awards, cementing its place as a valuable resource and support for the sober-curious community.Victoria has been a mate of Club Soda for a long time. You can read and hear her  prevous contribution to our Online Mindful Drinking Festival held in lockdown in 2020. She recently visited the Club Soda tasting Room with her co-host Hamis, and we had a chance to catch up and disucss her book – A Thousand Wasted Sundays.In this chat, Victoria shares how she transformed her life by quitting drinking, reclaiming her Sundays, and finding joy in the simple things. Her story is both inspiring and relatable, as she talks about the ups and downs of ditching alcohol and how she's building a life she loves, one sober day at a time. Here's how she did it and why it mattered so much.Breaking the Binge-Drinking Cycle: “I Knew I Needed Help”Victoria's journey started with the familiar cycle of binge drinking on weekends and the inevitable anxiety-filled Sundays. Despite trying countless ways to cut back, she found herself stuck in the same pattern.“I tried every trick in the book—water between wines, everything—but nothing ever worked.” The turning point came after the birth of her second child. She woke up with what she called the “anxiety monster” at the foot of her bed. This moment of clarity made her realise she needed a different approach.“I remember walking out and seeing my husband, and I said, ‘I think I need help. I need someone else to intervene because what I'm doing isn't working.”That realisation led her to seek therapy, and it changed everything. She learned that the root of her drinking went much deeper than she thought.“It's About Finding Out Who You Were Before Alcohol”For Victoria, quitting drinking wasn't just about giving up booze; it was about rediscovering who she truly was. Therapy helped her connect the dots between her past and her drinking habits, including childhood experiences of rejection that shaped her into a “people pleaser” and the life of the party.“I was always the mad one, the entertainer, because I wanted to keep people close. It all stems back to childhood stuff,”Read the full blog on joinclubsoda.com/hub/Find Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

This week on Rockonteurs we welcome Pete Townshend and Rachel Fuller to the podcast to discuss their new musical and literary collaboration, The Seeker. Authored and composed by Rachel with additional music and lyrics by Pete, it brings to life the Hesse novel Siddhartha in a brand new and beautiful way. You can see it live in London at a one-off show on November 6th at the Theatre Royal on Drury Lane. Tickets at www.theseekermusic.comPlus, Pete shares some incredible and never before heard stories about his life, his music and his journey. You can also watch some of our latest episodes on our Rockonteurs YouTube channel.Instagram @rockonteurs @guyprattofficial @garyjkemp @officialthewho @yaggerdang @rachelfullertownshend @gimmesugarproductionsYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@rockonteursFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/RockonteursProduced for WMG UK by Ben Jones at Gimme Sugar Productions Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on Rockonteurs we welcome Pete Townshend and Rachel Fuller to the podcast to discuss their new musical and literary collaboration, The Seeker. Authored and composed by Rachel with additional music and lyrics by Pete, it brings to life the Hesse novel Siddhartha in a brand new and beautiful way. You can see it live in London at a one-off show on November 6th at the Theatre Royal on Drury Lane. Tickets at www.theseekermusic.comPlus, Pete shares some incredible and never before heard stories about his life, his music and his journey. You can also watch some of our latest episodes on our Rockonteurs YouTube channel.Instagram @rockonteurs @guyprattofficial @garyjkemp @officialthewho @yaggerdang @rachelfullertownshend @gimmesugarproductionsYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@rockonteursFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/RockonteursProduced for WMG UK by Ben Jones at Gimme Sugar Productions Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Live from the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane, Dan, James, Anna and Andy discuss cassettes, cruising, cliffs and clowns. Visit nosuchthingasafish.com for news about live shows, merchandise and more episodes. Join Club Fish for ad-free episodes and exclusive bonus content at apple.co/nosuchthingasafish or nosuchthingasafish.com/patreon

"I've been in the presence of ghosts on several occasions"Sandi Toksvig is an internationally renowned and much-loved comedian, broadcaster, writer and campaigner. Now, Sandi announces One Night Only, a new live theatrical comedy extravaganza, for two nights only on Wednesday 13th and and Thursday 14th November 2024 at the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane in London's West End. The QI Elves, the researchers from the hit BBC2 show, will be delving into the theatrical archives to help Sandi unearth the funniest facts and anecdotes.Go see Sandi's show one night only: http://lwtheatres.co.ukRead her new book: https://www.welbooks.co.uk/shop/p/friends-of-dorothy-by-sandi-toksvig-signedGet tickets to Sandi Clause: https://www.royalalberthall.com

At our Low, Light and Alcohol Free Conference I Interviewed Briony May Williams. Briony is a TV presenter and self-taught baker who has appeared on The Great British Bake Off, Escape to the Country, and Food Unwrapped.In a world where socialising often revolves around alcohol, choosing to go alcohol-free can feel like a daunting prospect. But for Briony May Williams, the decision to give up drinking opened up a world of new experiences and joys, proving that sobriety doesn't mean sacrificing the fun or flavour. Briony, best known for her work in the culinary world and her charismatic presence on television, has become a passionate advocate for the alcohol-free movement. Her story is one of transformation, empowerment, and a mission to elevate the standards of alcohol-free drinks.Discovering the “Game Changer”Briony vividly recalls the moment that changed everything. It wasn't just a decision to stop drinking; it was about finding an alcohol-free alternative that sparked joy.“Nicolas [at Club Soda] introduced me to a really nice alcohol-free wine, and it was a game changer.”For Briony, the discovery of a quality non-alcoholic option didn't just satisfy her taste buds; it ignited a passion. She even recounts how she immediately bought several bottles and shared them with a close friend who was also sober.“It's amazing how movements grow. You find something you like, and you share it. You shock people into enjoying alcohol-free.”Raising the Standards: It's Time for ChangeBriony is quick to point out that not all alcohol-free options are created equal. Her experiences have shown her the highs and lows of the market, and she's not afraid to challenge establishments when they fall short.“It infuriates me when I go to a cocktail bar, and they give me some elderflower with soda water. That's just lazy,”Briony's frustration is not just about the lack of options; it's about the missed opportunity to create something memorable.Her message is clear: alcohol-free drinks deserve the same attention to detail and creativity as their alcoholic counterparts. For Briony, it's not just about replicating the taste of alcohol.“It doesn't have to taste exactly like a glass of rosé; it just has to taste amazing. I want it to be packed full of flavour, to have that dryness on the palate, and most importantly, to feel special.”Mental Health and Sobriety: A Transformative JourneyGoing alcohol-free hasn't just changed what Briony drinks; it's transformed her life. She openly discusses how her decision has had a profound impact on her mental health and well-being.“I've always struggled with depression, but in the last 10 months, it has been infinitely better.”She attributes much of her improvement to her decision to quit drinking. Alongside better mental health, Briony has experienced weight loss, better eating habits, and an improved relationship with her husband and daughter.This newfound clarity has fueled Briony's excitement for the future.“I'm so happy. I used to love going out and getting drunk; I loved the experience. But now, I feel so much better.”It's a message that resonates with many people exploring alcohol-free options—not as a compromise but as a way to enhance their overall well-being and relationships.A Mission for Better Drinks: Consumers as Catalysts for ChangeBriony's enthusiasm for alcohol-free drinks goes beyond personal enjoyment; she's on a mission to change the market. She's oftFind Club Soda:The Club Soda Tasting Room is at 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RRFind us on Instagram

In which our hero does NOT know the Muffin Man

Sandi Toksvig is someone we've wanted to have on Rosebud for a long time... so we're really delighted that she's today's guest! Sandi talks to Gyles about her amazing father, the most famous man in Denmark; she tells Gyles about her fascinating childhood, spent in Africa, the USA and the UK. She talks about playing hooky from school, about getting found out and being sent to boarding school, where she spent four miserable years. She shocks Gyles with her description of the prejudice she discovered was still alive and well when she was at university. This is as witty, wise and entertaining as you would expect, but it's also moving and profound. Sandi's new book, Friends of Dorothy, is out now, from Virago Books, and Sandi is on a UK tour - tickets at www.sanditoksvig.com. Sandi is also doing two special "One Night Only" shows at the Theatre Royal on Drury Lane on 13 and 14 November 2024 - tickets are on sale now via www.lwtheatres.co.uk. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this edition of The Arts Section, host Gary Zidek catches up with the multi-talented filmmaker and musician Haroula Rose. Her new movie, ALL HAPPY FAMILIES, opened in theaters this weekend. Gary sits down with Chicago Shakespeare Theatre artistic director Edward Hall to talk about his new interpretation of HENRY V. Later in the show, theater critic Kelly Kleiman joins Gary to review Drury Lane's new production of THE AUDIENCE. And Gary highlights the work of a local non-profit theater company that's been presenting Gilbert and Sullivan operettas for the past 60 years.

The past few days have brought news about major new shows from director Jamie Lloyd on either side of the Atlantic.Keanu Reeves and Alex Winter will star in a new production of WAITING FOR GODOT on Broadway in 2025, while Sigourney Weaver, Tom Hiddleston and Hayley Atwell will appear in Shakespeare plays THE TEMPEST and MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING at Theatre Royal, Drury Lane in the West End.With the director's theatrical exposure at an all time high due to his recent productions of SUNSET BOULEVARD and ROMEO & JULIET, Mickey-Jo is looking back over Jamie Lloyd's career and sharing his thoughts on Lloyd's much talked about style and theatrical approach...•00:00 | introduction01:57 | history / background08:41 | Jamie Lloyd's ethos11:49 | West End news19:38 | Broadway news•About Mickey-Jo:As one of the leading voices in theatre criticism on a social platform, Mickey-Jo is pioneering a new medium for a dwindling field. His YouTube channel: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠MickeyJoTheatre⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is the largest worldwide in terms of dedicated theatre criticism, where he also share features, news and interviews as well as lifestyle content for over 70,000 subscribers. Since establishing himself as a theatre critic he has been able to work internationally. With a viewership that is largely split between the US and the UK he has been fortunate enough to be able to work with PR, Marketing, and Social Media representatives for shows in New York, London, Edinburgh, Hamburg, Toronto, Sao Pãolo, and Paris. He has also twice received accreditation from the world renowned Edinburgh Festival Fringe. His reviews and features have also been published by WhatsOnStage, for whom he was a panelist to help curate nominees for their 2023 and 2024 Awards as well as BroadwayWorldUK, Musicals Magazine and LondonTheatre.co.uk. He has been invited to speak to private tour groups, at the BEAM 2023 new musical theatre conference at Oxford Playhouse, and on a panel of critics at an event for young people considering a career in the arts courtesy of Go Live Theatre Projects. Instagram/TikTok/X: @MickeyJoTheatre

On this edition of The Arts Section, host Gary Zidek previews Drury Lane's new production of AIN'T MISBEHAVIN'. We'll hear from director E. Faye Butler. The Dueling Critics, Kelly Kleiman and Jonathan Abarbanel, join Gary to review Steppenwolf Theater's much anticipated world premiere starring Laurie Metcalf, LITTLE BEAR RIDGE ROAD. Later in the show, we'll hear about a new jazz singing competition taking place in July. And Gary visits a suburban exhibit that looks back at life in the Chicago-area during World War II.

Don't have time for terrible ❤️ books? Kim and Aimee help you choose, with a short review of Regency romance ‘Drury Lane Darling' by Joan Smith. (With reference to our review of ‘Imprudent Lady', also by Joan Smith.) Want to recommend a book? Send us a text!We LOVE it when our listeners ask us to read books! Please hit us with your suggestions via Twitter @or_treasure or email trashortreasurepodcast@outlook.com

Laura Willoughby MBE is the founder of the world's largest mindful drinking movement, Club Soda, and the UK's foremost expert in low and no alcoholic drinks. Laura began a cultural revolution of not drinking "for tonight or good" after she decided to quit drinking and attended an unethical workshop on alcohol cessation. In this episode, you'll learn how Club Soda evolved into a campaign, the work Laura's doing to make pubs in the UK a more inclusive place that profits everyone, differences in no and low-alcohol communities between the UK and the US, and Laura's journey of many paths to found Club Soda. Club Soda is the UK's mindful drinking specialist. Experts in alcohol and behavior change, they also run the Club Soda Tasting Room & Bar in Covent Garden. The Tasting Rooms are a space for consumers to try and buy low and no alcohol drinks and for brands to connect with consumers and the trade. Club Soda is a social impact B Corp Business and creates change, choice and connection through research, events, drinks expertise, corporate workshops, menu conclusion and more. You can find Club Soda at joinclubsoda.com on social @joinclubsoda and at: The Club Soda Tasting Rooms, 39 Drury Lane, London, WC2B 5RR ___ Dr. Nzinga Harrison's book, "Un-Addiction: Six Mind-Changing Conversations That Could Save a Life" is out now! Order here: https://www.nzingaharrisonmd.com/ Find Nzinga on Threads and X (Twitter): @nzingamd // LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nzingaharrisonmd/ Follow us on IG @unaddictionpod. If you'd like to watch our interviews, you can catch us on YouTube @unaddictionpod. Questions, suggestions, and anything else? Email us at: unaddictionpod@gmail.com If you or a loved one are experiencing addiction, have questions about recovery, or need treatment tailored to you, visit eleanorhealth.com  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's just been announced that Disney's Hercules will open at Theatre Royal, Drury Lane in the West End in Summer 2025.The musical has previously been seen at Paper Mill Playhouse in New Jersey and currently runs in Hamburg, Germany.Check out today's new theatre news recap video to find out why this is so exciting, and what you can expect from this stage production!•00:00 | introduction02:40 | Hercules stage history07:53 | the West End news11:59 | casting thoughts...•About Mickey-Jo:As one of the leading voices in theatre criticism on a social platform, Mickey-Jo is pioneering a new medium for a dwindling field. His YouTube channel: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠MickeyJoTheatre⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is the largest worldwide in terms of dedicated theatre criticism, where he also share features, news and interviews as well as lifestyle content for over 70,000 subscribers. Since establishing himself as a theatre critic he has been able to work internationally. With a viewership that is largely split between the US and the UK he has been fortunate enough to be able to work with PR, Marketing, and Social Media representatives for shows in New York, London, Edinburgh, Hamburg, Toronto, Sao Pãolo, and Paris. He has also twice received accreditation from the world renowned Edinburgh Festival Fringe. His reviews and features have also been published by WhatsOnStage, for whom he was a panelist to help curate nominees for their 2023 and 2024 Awards as well as BroadwayWorldUK, Musicals Magazine and LondonTheatre.co.uk. He has been invited to speak to private tour groups, at the BEAM 2023 new musical theatre conference at Oxford Playhouse, and on a panel of critics at an event for young people considering a career in the arts courtesy of Go Live Theatre Projects. Instagram/TikTok/X: @MickeyJoTheatre

The Theatre Royal in Drury Lane is one of the oldest theatres in London, and its also said to be one of the most haunted too. Is this amazing stage haunted by past actors or is it just the audiences saying boo to plays they don't like? Tiernan and Athena look into all the drama and then it's up to you, our Chief Detectives to solve the case. Brought to you by Small Wardour, makers of some of the best podcasts for kids. *** If your chief detectives want to hear more from the investigations, including more compelling evidence and extra fun facts, then you can become a paid subscriber of the show. Just click Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or visit patreon.com/bustortrustpodcast to get access to weekly bonus episodes, ad-free and early listening and exclusive extras. Your support will help us to investigate even more amazing mysteries. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

George III narrowly dodged a bullet for the SECOND time in one day on 15th May, 1800, as he attended a performance at the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane.   The assassination attempt came from James Hadfield, a clinically insane former soldier, who rose from the pit and fired a pistol at the King, causing uproar in the audience. Despite the danger, George remained composed, even using his opera glasses to survey the disarray. In this episode, Arion, Rebecca and Olly reveal how the leading playwright of the era swiftly calmed nerves with some poetic ingenuity; explain why George III remained popular in this era, despite the repeated attempts on his life; and marvel at how, amidst apparent danger everywhere, the Show really did Go On… Further Reading: ‘The Theatre Royal and The Case of Two Mad King Georges' (The National Archives, 2013): https://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk/the-theatre-royal-and-the-case-of-two-mad-king-georges/ ‘James Hadfield: His Attempt on King George III's Life' (Geri Walton, 2021): https://www.geriwalton.com/james-hadfield-his-attempt-on-king-george-iiis-life/#_ftn1 ‘The Madness of King George' (Channel Four Films, 1994): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8lJ8XzX_GM Love the show? Support us!  Join 

Step into the world of theatrical hauntings with Lisa Morton in the latest Ghost Report! From ghostly actors offering tips to mysterious TV channel flipping, the spirits of Drury Lane Theater are sure to give you a spine-tingling experience! #TheaterGhosts #LondonLegends #GhostReport

Today's poem (from an oft-maligned poet) makes frequent appearances in poetry anthologies for children, but hides a satisfying subtlety.Colley Cibber (6 November 1671 – 11 December 1757) was an English actor-manager, playwright and Poet Laureate. His colourful memoir An Apology for the Life of Colley Cibber (1740) describes his life in a personal, anecdotal and even rambling style. He wrote 25 plays for his own company at Drury Lane, half of which were adapted from various sources, which led Robert Lowe and Alexander Pope, among others, to criticise his "miserable mutilation" of "crucified Molière [and] hapless Shakespeare".He regarded himself as first and foremost an actor and had great popular success in comical fop parts, while as a tragic actor he was persistent but much ridiculed. Cibber's brash, extroverted personality did not sit well with his contemporaries, and he was frequently accused of tasteless theatrical productions, shady business methods, and a social and political opportunism that was thought to have gained him the laureateship over far better poets. He rose to ignominious fame when he became the chief target, the head Dunce, of Alexander Pope's satirical poem The Dunciad.Cibber's poetical work was derided in his time and has been remembered only for being poor. His importance in British theatre history rests on his being one of the first in a long line of actor-managers, on the interest of two of his comedies as documents of evolving early 18th-century taste and ideology, and on the value of his autobiography as a historical source. Get full access to The Daily Poem Podcast at dailypoempod.substack.com/subscribe

Natalie Kassanga is a professional actress and singer from England, and she is best known as a musical theatre performer. A 10-year-old Natalie was first seen in the West End as Young Nala in The Lion King, a role she portrayed for about a year. Later, she joined Oliver! In its original cast as Fagin alongside the renowned Rowan Atkinson. Most recently Natalie was seen playing Irene Roth in Susan Stroman's West End Revival of Crazy For You!  For the first time, Natalie returned to the West End ever since she was a child, to pick up the lead role. She has been in the West End for about a decade. Her first work as the leading lady happened in Motown: The Musical at the Shaftesbury Theatre, where she portrayed the character of Diana Ross.   Awards: Natalie was nominated for the Best Female Performer Award in the 8th annual Mousetrap Awards. Theatre: Credits include her role as Diana Ross in the West End's Motown: The Musical (Shaftesbury Theatre); Dear Evan Hansen (Noel Coward Theatre) where she is a part of the original West End cast and understudies Zoe Murphy and Alana Beck. She also plays Young Nala in The Lion King (Lyceum Theatre). She is an original cast member of Cameron Mackintosh's Oliver! At the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane. Want to try working with your own Broadway fitness coach? www.builtforthestage.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

“Collaboration is the most crucial thing you can do. Even if you are writing a solo show for yourself, for your family's story, show it to somebody – share it with somebody.” - Rob Madge Rob Madge is about to open their solo play on Broadway – so how did it go from home videos to fringe to West End to Broadway? Listen to this amazing episode and learn all about the new play My Son's a Queer (But What Can You Do?). This is the second part to Dear Multi-Hyphenate's 100th Episode celebration! Transitioning from a child actor into an adult actor. How does a show go from Fringe to Broadway? Handling the weight of Broadway with humor. Sense of play.  Rob Madge is a theatre maker, writer and actor. They began working professionally in theatre at the age of 9, having spent the majority of their childhood forcing their family to help them put on shows in the living room, most of which are now documented on Rob's social media channels. Rob is best known for their show My Son's A Queer (But What Can You Do?) which was nominated for Best Entertainment or Comedy Play at the 2023 Olivier Awards. Following this ongoing success, Rob won Best Creative Debut at The Stage Debut Awards, 2023 and the Attitude Award for Best Theatre Production, 2023. Most recent credits as a performer: Peter Pan (London Palladium). Theatre credits as a performer include: My Son's A Queer (Writer/Performer: Turbine Theatre, Edinburgh, West End); Jack and the Beanstalk (London Palladium); Mary Poppins (Prince Edward Theatre), Macbeth (Gielgud Theatre), Oliver! (Theatre Royal, Drury Lane), Les Misérables (25th Anniversary International Tour and Concert), Matilda the Musical (Courtyard Theatre, RSC), Bedknobs & Broomsticks (UK Tour/World Premiere),Timpson the Musical, Held Momentarily, Leave A Light On, Roles We'll Never Play. TV credits include: The Sarah Jane Adventures, That Mitchell and Webb Look, The Armstrong and Miller Show, Kröd Mändoon and the Flaming Sword of Fire, Poirot: Appointment with Death. Rob's debut play My Son's a Queer (But What Can You Do?) played to sold out audiences at the Turbine Theatre in 2021 and won the WhatsOnStage Award for Best Off-West End Production. My Son's a Queer is headlined the Edinburgh Fringe Festival at Underbelly (George Square) in 2022, and debuted to five-star reviews at the Garrick and Ambassadors in the West End. The play script is published by Nick Hern Books. Rob graduated with a Masters in Musical Theatre from the Royal Academy of Music, being awarded the DipRAM. Rob writes and performs their own skits on their social media channels which, as a result, have amassed a following of over 300,000 collectively, with over 11.3 million likes. Twitter: @rob_madge_02 Instagram: @robmadge02 TikTok: @rob_madge_ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, I'm thrilled to have acclaimed historical novelist Vanessa Riley here to discuss Murder in Drury Lane, which portrays the true diversity of the Regency-era and the hidden intrigue of England's abolitionist movement, with an engaging heroine who has a talent for sleuthing.

In this Cantina Conversation Megan welcomes author Vanessa Riley. They talk about her book, Murder in Drury Lane, the sequel to Murder in Westminster. Both books are available now. .    We ask that you support the show in any way possible.  You can like, share, rate or comment on any of the various social media and podcast players.  Join the conversation in our closed Facebook group at thenerdcantina.com/community, or become a patron on our Patreon page (https://www.patreon.com/thenerdcantina) where a pledge of as little as $1 will get you a free sticker.   Visit and subscribe to our YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKXYWzoYKvoZopZLX8YA0Bg    Links to authors pages and books discussed in this episode:   Website: https://vanessariley.com/           Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vanessarileyauthor/   Twitter: https://twitter.com/VanessaRiley/     Link to purchase: https://vanessariley.com/ladyworthing.htm#Drury