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Born in Los Angeles in 1986, Sable Elyse Smith works across a variety of media, including photography, painting, and sculpture, to investigate the US prison-industrial complex and its role in and effects on society.Her work has been featured at numerous prestigious institutions including the Museum of Modern Art, New Museum, Guggenheim Museum, and ICA Boston - among many others. In 2022, she participated in the Whitney Biennial and the 59th Venice Biennale. Smith is a recipient of several distinguished awards from Creative Capital, Skowhegan School of Painting and Sculpture, Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation, and most recently - the 2026 Suzanne Deal Booth / FLAG Art Foundation Prize - just to name a few.She is currently an Assistant Professor of Visual Art at Columbia University.Follow along with all Art from the Outside updates on Instagramhttps://www.instagram.com/artfromtheoutsidepodcast

For more than three decades, trailblazing artist and activist Joyce J. Scott has elevated the creative potential of beadwork as a relevant contemporary art form. Scott uses off-loom, hand-threaded glass beads to create striking figurative sculptures, wall hangings, and jewelry informed by her African American ancestry, the craft traditions of her family (including her mother, renowned quilter Elizabeth T. Scott), and traditional Native American techniques, such as the peyote stitch. Each object that Scott creates is a unique, vibrant, and challenging work of art developed with imagination, wit, and sly humor. Born to sharecroppers in North Carolina who were descendants of enslaved people, Scott's family migrated to Baltimore, Maryland, where the artist was born and raised. Scott hales from a long line of makers with extraordinary craftsmanship adept at pottery, knitting, metalwork, basketry, storytelling, and quilting. It was from her family that the young artist cultivated the astonishing skills and expertise for which she is now renowned, and where she learned to upcycle all materials, repositioning craft as a forceful stage for social commentary and activism. In the 1990s, Scott began working with glass artisans to create blown, pressed, and cast glass that she incorporated into her beaded sculptures. This not only allowed her to increase the scale of her work, but also satisfied her desire to collaborate. In 1992, she was invited to the Pilchuck Glass School, Stanwood, Washington. Continuing her interest in glass, Scott has worked with local Baltimore glassblowers as well as with flameworking pioneer Paul Stankard and other celebrated glass fabricators. In 2012, Goya Contemporary Gallery arranged to have Scott work at Adriano Berengo's celebrated glass studio on the island of Murano in Italy, creating works that were part of the exhibition Glasstress through the Venice Biennale. Scott has worn many hats during her illustrious career: quilter, performance artist, printmaker, sculptor, singer, teacher, textile artist, recording artist, painter, writer, installation artist, and bead artist. Her wide-ranging body of work has crossed styles and mediums, from the most intricate beaded form to large-scale outdoor installation. Whether social or political, the artist's subject matter reflects her narrative of what it means to be Black in America.  Scott continues to live and work in Baltimore, Maryland. She received a BFA from the Maryland Institute College of Art and an MFA from Instituto Allende in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico. Selected solo museum exhibitions include The Baltimore Museum of Art (2024); Seattle Art Museum (2024 – 2025); and Grounds for Sculpture (2018), Trenton, NJ. She is the recipient of myriad commissions, grants, awards, residencies, and prestigious honors including from the National Endowment for the Arts, Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation, Anonymous Was a Woman, American Craft Council, National Living Treasure Award, Lifetime Achievement Award from the Women's Caucus for the Arts, Mary Sawyers Imboden Baker Award, MacArthur Foundation Fellowship (2016), Smithsonian Visionary Artist Award, National Academy of Design Induction, and Moore College Visionary Woman Award, among others. In March of 2024, Scott opened a major 50-year traveling Museum retrospective titled Joyce J. Scott: Walk a Mile in My Dreams co-organized by the Baltimore Museum of Art and Seattle Art Museum. Also in 2024, Scott opened Bearing Witness: A History of Prints by Joyce J Scott at Goya Contemporary Gallery. Her latest exhibition, Joyce J. Scott: Messages, opened at The Chrysler Museum of Art on February 6, 2025 and will run through August 17, 2025 at the Glass Projects Space. This exhibition is organized by Mobilia Gallery, Cambridge, MA. Says Carolyn Swan Needell, the Chrysler Museum's Barry Curator of Glass: “We are thrilled to host this focused traveling exhibition here in Norfolk at the very moment when Scott's brilliant career is being recognized more widely, through a retrospective of her work that is co-organized by the Baltimore Museum of Art and the Seattle Museum of Art.”  In Messages, 34 remarkable beaded works of art spanning the artist's career express contemporary issues and concepts. Included in the show is Scott's recent beaded neckpiece, War, What is it Good For, Absolutely Nothin', Say it Again (2022). A technical feat in peyote stitch, infused with color and texture, this multilayered and intricate beadwork comments on violence in America. Embedding cultural critique within the pleasurable experience of viewing a pristinely crafted object, Scott's work mines history to better understand the present moment. The visual richness of Scott's objects starkly contrasts with the weight of the subject matter that they explore. She says: “I am very interested in raising issues…I skirt the borders between comedy, pathos, delight, and horror. I believe in messing with stereotypes, prodding the viewer to reassess, inciting people to look and then carry something home – even if it's subliminal – that might make a change in them.”   

Molly Lowe (b. 1983, Palo Alto, CA) received her MFA from Columbia University and her BFA from Rhode Island School of Design (RISD). She has had solo exhibitions and performances at the Hammer Museum, Los Angeles, CA; Lilith Performance Studio, Malmo, Sweden; Pioneer Works, Brooklyn, NY; Anat Ebgi, Los Angeles CA; Suzanne Geiss Company, New York, NY; SculptureCenter, Long Island City, New York; and Performa 13, New York, NY. Her films have screened at the Museum of Modern Art, New York, NY and JOAN, Los Angeles, CA. Lowe has participated in residencies at the Shandaken Project, Storm King Art Center, New Windsor, NY; Pioneer Works, Brooklyn, NY; Recess Art, New York, NY; and the Skowhegan School of Painting and Sculpture, Skowhegan, ME. In 2015, she received the New York Foundation for the Arts interdisciplinary artist fellowship award, and she was recently nominated for a Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation award. Lowe lives and works in New York. Molly Lowe, Wrestle in the Grass, 2023, Oil on canvas, 68 x 80 in, 172.7 x 203.2 cm Molly Lowe, Domestic Embrace, 2023, Oil on canvas. 48 x 56 in, 121.9 x 142.2 cm. Molly Lowe, 2024, LAP, 83 x 66 in.  

Ep.128 features Arcmanoro Niles (b. 1989, Washington, D.C.; lives and works in New York, NY). He makes vivid, brightly hued paintings that expand our understanding of traditional genre painting and portraiture. Niles offers a window into seemingly mundane moments of daily life―a child seated at the table for breakfast, a man about to get into his car, a couple in their bedroom―with subjects drawn from photographs of friends and relatives and from memories of his past. The paintings, though intensely personal and autobiographical, engage in universal subjects of domestic and family life while also making reference to numerous art historical predecessors, including Italian and Dutch baroque, history painting, Color Field painting, and ancient Egyptian sculpture. Though drawing from many styles and genres, Niles is particularly inspired by the paintings that 16th-century Italian painter Caravaggio created of daily life through representations of his family and friends. In depicting not only people close to him but the places and times they inhabit, Niles creates his own record of contemporary life.  Photo credit: Arcmanoro Niles in his studio, 2022 Photo by Daniel Kukla Courtesy the artist and Lehmann Maupin, New York, Hong Kong, Seoul, and London Artist http://www.arcmanoro.com/ Lehmann Maupin Gallery Arcmanoro Niles - Hey Tomorrow, Do You Have Some Room For Me: Failure Is A Part Of Being Alive - Exhibitions -Lehmann Maupin November2022 Exhibitionhttps://www.lehmannmaupin.com/exhibitions/arcmanoro-niles2 Long Gallery https://www.long.gallery/the-arena-exhibition-page Hypebeast https://hypebeast.com/2020/2/arcmanoro-niles-i-guess-by-now-im-supposed-to-be-a-man-uta-artist-space-exhibition UTA Artist Space http://utaartistspace.com/press/2020/02/18/arcmanoro-niles-first-solo-show-on-the-west-coast-at-uta-artist-space-in-los-angeles/ PAFA Org https://www.pafa.org/news/arcmanoro-niles-bfa-13-featured-current-exhibit-bacchanal-110821 GuildHall https://www.guildhall.org/people/arcmanoro-niles/ Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation https://www.louiscomforttiffanyfoundation.org/2019/arcmanoro-niles Rachel Uffner https://www.racheluffnergallery.com/exhibitions/detail/arcmanoro-niles/installation-stills Wikipedia Arcmanoro Niles - Wikipedia Ocula https://ocula.com/artists/arcmanoro-niles/ Galerie Magazine https://galeriemagazine.com/arcmanoro-niles-lehmann-maupin/ SAIC Arcmanoro Niles (saic.edu) Elephant Glitter and Ghosts in the Paintings of Arcmanoro Niles - ELEPHANTICA Boston https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g_0nAeWcF0 The Artist Profile Archive  https://www.theartistprofilearchive.com/artist-profiles/arcmanoro-niles/#video

What you'll learn in this episode: How Jonathan moved from sculpture to jewelry to drawing, and why he explores different ideas with each medium How the relationship between craft and fine art has evolved over the years Why people became more interested in jewelry during the pandemic Why jewelers working in any style benefit from strong technical skills How you can take advantage of the 92nd Street Y's jewelry programming and virtual talks About Jonathan Wahl Jonathan Wahl joined 92nd Street Y in July 1999 as director of the jewelry and metalsmithing program in 92Y's School of the Arts, the largest program of its kind in the nation. He is responsible for developing and overseeing the curriculum, which offers more than 60 classes weekly and 15 visiting artists annually. Jonathan is also responsible for hiring and supervising 25 faculty members, maintaining four state-of-the-art jewelry and metalsmithing studios, and promoting the department locally and nationally as a jewelry resource center. Named one of the top 10 jewelers to watch by W Jewelry in 2006, Jonathan is an accomplished artist who, from 1994 to 1995, served as artist-in-residence at Hochschule Der Kunst in Berlin, Germany. He has shown his work in the exhibitions Day Job (The Drawing Center), Liquid Lines (Museum of Fine Arts Houston), The Jet Drawings (Sienna Gallery, Lenox MA, and SOFA New York), Formed to Function (John Michael Kohler Arts Center), Defining Craft (American Craft Museum), Markers in Contemporary Metal (Samuel Dorsky Museum of Art), Transfigurations: 9 Contemporary Metalsmiths (University of Akron and tour), and Contemporary Craft (New York State Museum). Jonathan was awarded the Louis Comfort Tiffany Emerging Artist Fellowship from the Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation, two New York Foundation for the Arts Fellowships in recognition of "Outstanding Artwork," and the Pennsylvania Society of Goldsmiths Award for "Outstanding Achievement." As part of the permanent collections of The Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York, The Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, TX, and The Museum of Arts and Design in New York, his work has been reviewed by Art in America (June, 2000), The New York Times (June 2005), and Metalsmith Magazine (1996, 1999, 2000 2002, 2005, 2009); his work was also featured in Metalsmith Magazine's prestigious "Exhibition in Print" (1994 and 1999). Jonathan's art work can be seen at Sienna Gallery in Lenox, Massachusetts, which specializes in contemporary American and European art work, and De Vera in Soho, New York. His work can also be seen in the publications The Jet Drawings (Sienna Press, 2008), and in three collections by Lark Books: 1,000 Rings, 500 Enameled Objects and 500 Metal Vessels. Before joining 92Y, Jonathan was, first, director of the jewelry and metalsmithing department at the YMCA's Craft Students League, and later assistant director of the League itself. Mr. Wahl holds a B.F.A. in jewelry and metalsmithing from Temple University's Tyler School of Art and an M.F.A. in metalsmithing and fine arts from the State University of New York at New Paltz. He is a member of the Society of North America Goldsmiths. Additional Resources: Website: www.jonathanwahl.com Website: www.92y.org/jewelry LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jonathancwahl Instagram: @jonathancwahl/   Photos: Available at TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript: With more than 60 jewelry classes offered weekly, the 92nd Street Y's Jewelry Center is by far the largest program of its kind in the country—and it's all run by award-winning sculptor, jeweler and artist Jonathan Wahl. He joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about the different relationships he has with jewelry and sculpture; why craftsmanship should be embraced by the art world; and what he has planned for 92Y in 2022. Read the episode transcript here. Interview with Jonathan Wahl 4/3/22     Sharon: Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast.  Today, my guest is Jonathan Wahl, Director of the Jewelry Center at the 92nd Street Y in New York.  Jonathan was recently on the podcast, but we had to rush through the description of the many jewelry programs that are going on at the Y.  So, I asked him back to tell us about the programs in more detail.  Many of them are online and are recorded, so it doesn't matter where you are in the world.   Jonathan, nice to see you again.   Jonathan: Nice to see you, Sharon.  Thanks for having me back.   Sharon: You ran through it very quickly at the end because I didn't realize how much you had to say basically.  So, tell us first about your interviews you have with sculptors and jewelers.  Tell us about those.  Are there any upcoming?   Who are the next ones?  Give us--   Jonathan: Sure, so the lecture series came out of the pandemic obviously.  I think I've done about 25 or 30 lectures or interviews so far.  The most recent series was a series of three talks about female sculptors who are jewelers or jewelers who are sculptors.  As you could tell from our last conversation, I'm really interested in this line be-tween the fields of art, particularly between jewelry and sculpture or fine art and decorative art.  So, I was really curious to talk to these three in particular New Yorkers who practice in both fields and it was Joe Platner who is a longtime jeweler in New York City, Michelle Okeldoner(?) whose work was primarily sculpture and also does jewelry and Anna Corey whose work also started in sculpture, but now is primarily a jeweler.  So, it was really fascinating to talk to these women artists about how they practice and what inspires them in their practice.     Sharon: And do you have series upcoming more in the spring or summer?   Jonathan: Yup, I'm working on a series about enamel.  Enameling seems to be having a re-surgence in our department and I think in jewelry in general, we're seeing a lot more enamel and a lot more color in metals.  So, it will be with a contemporary artist, a historical collection and a contemporary fine jeweler.   Sharon: It sounds very interesting and enamel, at least in the view I see now, is becoming much more popular.   Jonathan: Yeah, yeah, I'm not exactly sure why.  I'm really curious.  I think maybe it's happy; it's colorful; it's as close to painting, I guess, as you can get in jewelry in a way.   Sharon: It's such a skill if you do it right.  It's an artistry.  Jewelry is an art, but it's such an artistry within the art in a sense.   Jonathan: Absolutely, you can, as we say, shake and bake and get color on metal pretty easily.  So, you can get pretty direct results and get color on your metal pretty simply.  Of course, to be an expert enamellist, to practice grisaille or cloisonne or brioche, you need to become master craftsman.  So, there's a lot to dig into.   Sharon: So, do we need to keep our eyes on the spring session, the summer session or when?   Jonathan: It's going to be the summer session.  I think it's going to take place in June.   Sharon: O.K., I look forward to it.   Jonathan: I'm not sure of the dates, but it's coming and you'll see it.  Most of the talks so far are on our archives at 92Y.org in the jewelry center page.   Sharon: Yeah, I know there are some that I'd really like to go look at that I missed.   Jonathan: The previous three were with three Brazilian jewelers.   Sharon: Now, you just had an interview with—I don't know how to say her last name—but she was talking about a Brazilian jeweler, Roberto Burle Marks.   Jonathan: Uhum, correct.   Sharon: But that was separate.   Jonathan: It was part of the Brazilian series because Roberto Burle Marks was a Brazilian.   Sharon: But it wasn't part of the Sculpture and Artist Series; it was a different series.   Jonathan: Correct, right, they were three and three.   Sharon: There's a lot going on.  So, tell us about this jewelry residency.  I was just looking at your Instagram and the ads for it.  So, tell us about it.   Jonathan: The Jewelry Residency Program, it would be its fifth year, but we took two years off because of the pandemic.  The Jewelry Residence Program is something that I've always dreamed of doing and I'm so happy that it's back on.  What it provides is a studio apartment here in our facility, 24-hour access to one of our studios and air-fare to and from New York City from anywhere in the world.   Sharon: Are people applying now?  When does it start?   Jonathan: Yes, the applications are open until April 15.  We extended the deadline.   Sharon: Does it start in September--   Jonathan: Sorry, it's August 18-September 19, if I'm not mistaken.  That's the residency program.   Sharon: And you get applications from all over the world or what?   Jonathan: We had applications from fifty countries in 2019.  I would love to have applications from farther afield.  Most of them come from western Europe.  We're still trying to figure out how we reach populations in Asia or sub-Saharan Africa or Africa in gen-eral or even more in South America.  It's been kind of hard to get to some of those areas.  I'm working on a trip to Korea which you know about, so I sent it to all the artists that we're going to visit in Korea.  So, I hope we get some applications from Korea and I also just was in contact with an artist who's a Ukrainian jeweler and she has started on Facebook to try and raise money and funds and help Ukrainian jewel-ers who've been displaced, so of course I've shared that residency with her and the opportunity.  We would love to support a Ukrainian jeweler and have them here in New York City for a month, particularly if they're not in a studio, but I'm also looking forward to seeing how we can support a Ukrainian jeweler in general if they are here in New York City.   Sharon: And so it doesn't matter, a male, female, anybody in between.   Jonathan: It doesn't matter and it is open to Americans.  It is an international jewelry resi-dency, but you are welcome to apply as an American.  The reason for the residency is, as I mentioned, to expand New York City's access to jewelers who don't maybe normally get here and the type of work that isn't often shown in New York City, but it's also for an artist who might not normally be able to come to New York City to come to New York City, but it's also about why an artist needs to be in New York, what would New York City do for them and that could be for a whole host of reasons and there is a jury panel that I assemble every year that helps me decide who that next person should be.     Sharon: Wow!  That sounds pretty competitive, but it's sounds really worthwhile.   Jonathan: Well, there's only one spot.  Sharon, with funding, we could expand that.  So again, if anyone wants to help support a residence.  The residency program, I'm completely open to a conversation.   Sharon: Well, I will suggest that people get in touch with you, O.K., or at least send the checks.  O.K., so tell us about the travel program to Korea.   Jonathan: I do a trip every other year to somewhere in the world and we have gone to Israel, Italy, Austria, the Czech Republic, India, Japan and this year hopefully to Korea.   Sharon: Wow!  That really sounds fabulous.   Jonathan: Yeah, the trips are centered around historical collections and contemporary jewelers and if you're not familiar with the Korean jewelry scene, it's really vibrant and really robust. It has its roots in Europe and the United States as well as with Korean tradi-tion.  So, I'm really excited to meet these artists who blend a lot of techniques and traditions and they're doing some really extraordinary work.   Sharon: Well, the Korean artists who have exhibited at the international shows have really been creative and really amazing.    Jonathan: Really strong work, yeah.   Sharon: So, the last I talked to you, I just wanted to double check.  Are you still thinking you'll be going October 6, whenever?   Jonathan: Yeah, that's the tentative plan.  The one thing.  Korea has lifted quarantine restric-tions which is great, but groups are still restricted to six or fewer, so it's a bit of a problem for our group which is about fifteen people.  So, I'm a little bit on edge about that.  I'm waiting to see if that will change.   Sharon: Wow!  Six or fewer, that's pretty--   Jonathan: That would make going out to dinner a problem and just going to into groups and staggering them, it's like taking two trips frankly.   Sharon: Yeah, no, it sounds like a lot of logistics.   Jonathan: With that being said, I have a trip to the southwest in the wings for the end of October.  If for some reason the gods are not with us to go to Korea, I'm putting together a trip to San Jose and Taos.   Sharon: There's lots to see there.     Jonathan: Uhum.   Sharon: So, you also have a program for highschoolers to teach them about the jewelry industry.  Tell us about that.   Jonathan: Yeah, this is certainly a program that's been a dream of mine for a long time.  It is a program that is offered to Title 1 art and design school in New York City and Title One schools tend to service underserve populations in general in New York City and most of those students wouldn't normally get access to a jewelry studio in high school.  Most kids don't get access to a jewelry studio in high school in general.  Particularly this population most likely wouldn't be taking a class at the 92nd Street Y as a fee-for-service program for obvious reasons.  So, this is a program to get kids who would normally be in the studio into the studio and expose them to the tech-niques and materials and offer them a view into a possible career path, if that's something they would like to pursue.  We're coordinating with New York City Jewel-ry Week who has organized wonderful guest speakers with these kids and with NYCJWM and the Department of Education, are able to offer paid internships this summer which is really exciting.  It's the first year of this program, so we're still find-ing our footing and I know there are going to be some kids who decide to go into the next year and I think particularly the juniors and seniors will hopefully take advan-tage of some of these opportunities and perhaps go deeper into the field.   Sharon: It sounds like a great opportunity, yeah.   Jonathan: Even master soldering to a teenager, regardless of whether or not you go into the field as a career, it's a great skill to have.   Sharon: I don't know that much about New York and the school system, but I would assume that there are not a lot of opportunities like this that are going on in New York.   Jonathan: To my knowledge, there is not a functioning jewelry studio in any of the public high schools in New York City.   Sharon: Now, that's really amazing to me.  Would a shop class teach jewelry and metal-smithing?   Jonathan: To my knowledge, there aren't any functioning jewelry programs classes in New York City public schools right now and we don't have trade schools for jewelry in America.  There are art schools and we've talked about how that's always the best fit if you're going into the trade.   Sharon: It sounds like a program that would really take off.  So, what else should we know about—and what else is coming up?  I know you have some great—you've had Tony Greenbaum teaching a class who teaches about modernist jewelry.   Jonathan: Yup and Bella Neyman just finished a great series on costume jewelry that was really fascinating.   Sharon: Uhuh, I do have to say it was great.  I did listen to it.  It was great because it was in Los Angeles and it was at seven in the morning which is usually not the time I'm up to watch class.  So, I watched the recorded classes which was great to have.   Jonathan: Yeah, and we're working on our fall programming, so I'm not exactly sure what the talks will be, but I'm sure there will be one.  I'm working on another few initiatives—well, one initiative in particular that is not confirmed yet, but I would like to also create a younger designer's award or fund in which we would help support a new jeweler and help them with classes and to continue their education as well as men-torship through our faculty and through our connections.  One of the huge leaps is to go from undergrad or grad in these very supportive environments and then to be let loose to fly free.  Many people hone their skills while working for another artist doing benchwork, but I would like to help an artist or a young designer home their skills through our classes and through our faculty mentorship and our professional mentorship opportunities.  So, I'm working on that.  I would love to see it happen by the fall, but TBD.   Sharon: O.K., well, you can keep us posted.  I know you have so much going on, so thank you so much.  I just envision you juggling so many balls.   Jonathan: There's always a lot going on as well as continuing to support the programing that we do on an ongoing basis here.  Every day, every week--there's a class going on right outside my office right now, one of three or four classes going on right now in the center.  We do offer over fifty classes a week for jewelry alone, so that in itself is enough of a job--   Sharon: For hands-on jewelry.   Jonathan: Hands-on jewelry, hands-on making.  To my right, there's a wax covering class going on.  To my left, there's a jewelry two class going on.  Further down the road is a goldsmithing class and then—yeah, I can't remember what's in the fourth studio right now, but the most pressing thing is if you are interested or know someone who might apply for the Jewelry Residency Program, I'd strongly encourage them to do so.  We've got some wonderful press from Town and Country Magazine last year and in the cut from New York Magazine, so there are some great opportunities.   Sharon: It sounds like it and since the deadline is right around the corner, April 15, people need to get on it.   Jonathan: But it's easy.  It's a submittable application.  You upload your images.  You make the case for why you want to be in New York City and away you go.   Sharon: I don't know.  That still involves somebody sitting down and really putting their brainpower behind it.   Jonathan: Get on it, people.   Sharon: Jonathan, thank you so much for being here today.   Jonathan: You're welcome.   Sharon: And we'll keep everyone posted on what else is going on at the Y.     Jonathan: Thank you, Sharon, it's always a pleasure.  Hope to see you soon.                    

What you'll learn in this episode: How Jonathan moved from sculpture to jewelry to drawing, and why he explores different ideas with each medium How the relationship between craft and fine art has evolved over the years Why people became more interested in jewelry during the pandemic Why jewelers working in any style benefit from strong technical skills How you can take advantage of the 92nd Street Y's jewelry programming and virtual talks About Jonathan Wahl Jonathan Wahl joined 92nd Street Y in July 1999 as director of the jewelry and metalsmithing program in 92Y's School of the Arts, the largest program of its kind in the nation. He is responsible for developing and overseeing the curriculum, which offers more than 60 classes weekly and 15 visiting artists annually. Jonathan is also responsible for hiring and supervising 25 faculty members, maintaining four state-of-the-art jewelry and metalsmithing studios, and promoting the department locally and nationally as a jewelry resource center. Named one of the top 10 jewelers to watch by W Jewelry in 2006, Jonathan is an accomplished artist who, from 1994 to 1995, served as artist-in-residence at Hochschule Der Kunst in Berlin, Germany. He has shown his work in the exhibitions Day Job (The Drawing Center), Liquid Lines (Museum of Fine Arts Houston), The Jet Drawings (Sienna Gallery, Lenox MA, and SOFA New York), Formed to Function (John Michael Kohler Arts Center), Defining Craft (American Craft Museum), Markers in Contemporary Metal (Samuel Dorsky Museum of Art), Transfigurations: 9 Contemporary Metalsmiths (University of Akron and tour), and Contemporary Craft (New York State Museum). Jonathan was awarded the Louis Comfort Tiffany Emerging Artist Fellowship from the Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation, two New York Foundation for the Arts Fellowships in recognition of "Outstanding Artwork," and the Pennsylvania Society of Goldsmiths Award for "Outstanding Achievement." As part of the permanent collections of The Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York, The Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, TX, and The Museum of Arts and Design in New York, his work has been reviewed by Art in America (June, 2000), The New York Times (June 2005), and Metalsmith Magazine (1996, 1999, 2000 2002, 2005, 2009); his work was also featured in Metalsmith Magazine's prestigious "Exhibition in Print" (1994 and 1999). Jonathan's art work can be seen at Sienna Gallery in Lenox, Massachusetts, which specializes in contemporary American and European art work, and De Vera in Soho, New York. His work can also be seen in the publications The Jet Drawings (Sienna Press, 2008), and in three collections by Lark Books: 1,000 Rings, 500 Enameled Objects and 500 Metal Vessels. Before joining 92Y, Jonathan was, first, director of the jewelry and metalsmithing department at the YMCA's Craft Students League, and later assistant director of the League itself. Mr. Wahl holds a B.F.A. in jewelry and metalsmithing from Temple University's Tyler School of Art and an M.F.A. in metalsmithing and fine arts from the State University of New York at New Paltz. He is a member of the Society of North America Goldsmiths. Additional Resources: Website: www.jonathanwahl.com Website: www.92y.org/jewelry LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jonathancwahl Instagram: @jonathancwahl/   Photos: Available at TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript: With more than 60 jewelry classes offered weekly, the 92nd Street Y's Jewelry Center is by far the largest program of its kind in the country—and it's all run by award-winning sculptor, jeweler and artist Jonathan Wahl. He joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about the different relationships he has with jewelry and sculpture; why craftsmanship should be embraced by the art world; and what he has planned for 92Y in 2022. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. Today, my guest is Jonathan Wahl, Director of the Jewelry Center of the 92nd Street Y in New York City. The program is the largest of its kind in the country. In addition to his life in jewelry, Jonathan is an award-winning artist whose work is in the permanent collections of prestigious museums. Welcome back.    When do you have time to work on your jewelry?    Jonathan: I'm here Monday through Wednesday in the studio here. Then I'm in my studio the rest of the time, so Thursday, Friday, Saturdays and Sundays.   Sharon: Your home studio or a studio at the Y?   Jonathan: No, it's not here. It's in Brooklyn. I wouldn't be able to work here. People would be finding me. No, I maintain a studio in Brooklyn. That's where I've done all my work basically for the past 25 years.   Sharon: Tell us about your work. I was reading about you. You have a whole series of different things, drawings, collections.   Jonathan: Lest I forget, I have had a jewelry line. In 2005—and I'll get to the larger bodies of work—when I moved to New York, my work was primarily sculpture. It was the tinware. It became the oversize tinware. I got a Tiffany fellowship which gave me a nice chunk of cash, and I made a series of work based on Frederic Remington, a series called Cowboys and Unicorns. I made a series of tasseled heads for this exhibition. It took about a year. There were many bodies of work, like Aztec Astronauts, which is inspired by Jared Diamond's book, “Guns, Germs, and Steel.” There's no jewelry in it at all, but it was interesting. I had a wonderful Foundation for the Arts fellowship for Cowboys and Unicorns. I had this Tiffany fellowship. I thought I was hot to trot. I was an artist, but because I've also been very self-directed in my work, I have made choices on my own, and I certainly hadn't thought of the larger picture, like, “Who am I marketing to?”    At one point, I felt like maybe I should do something different. I saw these people putting jewelry lines together and I thought, “Well, let me try that. I'm going to throw together a jewelry line.” I did put together a jewelry line in 2004 and 2005, and it got a lot of press. Barneys called and Bergdorf called. It was exciting and, true to myself, I looked at this opportunity and thought, “What they're asking for sounds like I'm going to have to start a real business.” Between my role here as Director of the Jewelry Center and my studio practice, I wasn't sure I wanted to run a full-time jewelry business.    What this position here affords me is the time and space to work in my studio on what I want to make. I thought that if I put together a jewelry line, that was a different kind of hustle, and a hustle that was going to take over. As a consequence, I declined Barneys and Bergdorf. I did sell my line at De Vera in New York, which is a much more boutique, gorgeous store that has since moved. Interestingly enough, launching the jewelry line brought me to drawing. People who knew me and knew my work as a sculptor, when I said I'd launched a jewelry line, to put it politely, they looked confused. I've said this in many interviews: a jeweler in the art world, people don't really get. An artist who makes jewelry is different than a jeweler who makes art, may I say.   Sharon: That's interesting.    Jonathan: I think that has changed. It has changed to some extent, but it's different. It's a one-way street. A potter and a sculptor, interesting, particularly with clay being very hot right now. A painter and a bartender makes sense; people get that. Anyway, I found this look of confusion quite perplexing. I started these large drawings, renderings of jet jewelry. I was working on a series of drawings about jewelry, about history, about my love for history, and I happened upon jet jewelry. I thought it was so out of the ordinary: monochromatic, at times really epoch-shifting in terms of what it was. So, I decided to start drawing these objects to take them out of the realm of jewelry and present them to the viewer as an object. Rendered large, they took on a completely different identity. It paralleled my experience of having this conversation with people saying I'm a jeweler and a sculptor. I thought, “If I present them with these drawings that are straight-up portraits of jewelry, maybe they'll think differently about what those edges are about or what those lines are, what those determinations are.”   Sharon: That's interesting about people not getting a jeweler as a painter or an artist. That's what you said, right?    Jonathan: I wish I could deny it. Again, this is 20 or 15 or 17 years ago; I can't remember. Things have changed a lot in the art world. I'll probably get in trouble for this; I don't know if any of the Whitney curators are going to hear this, but the Whitney, one of my favorite museums, had an exhibition of artists who employ craft, I think. It was all artists who made objects or used material that represented craft in some way. It was such an artist's use of craft, and done in a way that was pure aesthetics and abstraction, which was such a different experience with respect to the materials that I think a craftsperson has. I also find that curators are really only looking at artists who use craft techniques or craft materials from this artistic, old-school, may I say modernist perspective.    I truly mean that because it was fascinating to see how a fine art museum presented craft in this way. To me, it reiterated how these fields are viewed, certainly from each corner of the art world. I found the show at the Whitney really underwhelming in terms of how they represented craft. Just because you use yarn doesn't mean it's craft. That's the takeaway. I think that represents this weird, one-way street or one-way mirror of how crafts and art are viewed together. Martin Puryear was not in that show.   Sharon: Pardon?   Jonathan: Martin Puryear, whose work definitely involves craftsmanship. He wasn't in that exhibition. There were people who I thought could have been in that exhibition to represent how craft is employed in the fine art world and would have made the statement better.   Sharon: So, what is craft? It always seems to me the question that's has no answer. How do you know, when you're looking at something, whether it's craft or fine art or jewelry made with yarn? What's the difference? Not difference, but how do you separate it?   Jonathan: I think it's many times subjective. To that point, the curators at the Whitney could have put whatever they wanted and called it craft, but I think when you see craft, you know it. I think you really do. I think their lines can be crossed. I think there's craft that's art, and I think there's art that's craft, but for myself, I know it when I see it.    I think it also depends on how you employ the materials and for what end. I've been thinking about this recently. Craft was never really thought of as espousing an agenda other than its function. That was how it started, but now in some ways, the art world is looking at craft that explores itself beyond its function. It's making social commentary and is actually functioning in the way fine art would have explained itself, as material subjugated to the thought process of the artist. Craftsmen can be both, explaining or using functional materiality. They can also use a fine arts strategy, if they're making a commentary or going beyond the object's functionality into a realm that makes you think about the object differently. That is more of a fine arts strategy. So, it gets really sticky.   Sharon: It's one of those questions. I'm thinking about craft in jewelry. I'm thinking about when you were in camp, the lanyards you would make, the necklaces you'd make with plastics. I guess you could call it a type of craft jewelry.   Jonathan: For sure. I don't think craftsmen should be offended by lanyard jewelry. That's how you start. It's weaving; it's one of the most basic weaving skills. Voice that history. Those are old skills. That's how we built civilization. Believe in that. We wouldn't be here without those skills. Don't be afraid of that. I think my own jewelry journey, if you will, has been influenced by these experiences. I love jewelry. I love objects. I love technique. I love skill. I'm so in awe of people who can make, who can really fabricate something. It takes skill. It takes work. It takes focus.    I love jewelry. I wear one ring and a watch. I change my ring up whenever I feel like that. They're mostly rings I've made, but they're a specific type of ring. Apart from my look in the 80s, I'm a relatively conservative-looking guy, so I wear jewelry that reflects the aesthetics of myself. It tends to be kind of traditional, so I have no problem with great jewelry that has a great stone, that's made well, that some would consider traditional. I'm O.K. with that. You know what? Wear whatever kind of jewelry makes you feel right.    I love art jewelry and I think it's important in pushing the boundaries or the materiality of the field. I'm happy to see and support that. I love going to SCHMUCK. I'm always blown away when I see what's happening in the world of contemporary jewelry. I think contemporary or art jewelry, the field is also changing. I have to say everything's moving more towards the middle in a way, whether it's contemporary jewelry, studio jewelry or art jewelry. When I look at work today, it's all moving a little bit towards the middle, which is fascinating. But when it comes to jewelry, I don't have any problem with good jewelry, period. I love good jewelry.   Sharon: Big stones are nice.    Jonathan: I'm just saying good jewelry, however you classify jewelry, I like jewelry.   Sharon: Why are things moving towards the middle? Why do you think that? Is that part of the ethos of the country, or that people don't want to be extreme? They don't want purple hair anymore?   Jonathan: With all that being said, the generation that's coming up now wants to have purple hair, absolutely. I look at the trends that are going on right now, and I think of myself in art school in the high 80s with my hoop earrings and my dyed red hair and my capri pants and my corny shoes and my vests and yada, yada, yada. I look at this younger generation thinking, “Wow, it's coming back around again, interesting.” Maybe I talk out of two sides of my mouth, but I think in general, the bulk of those fields are moving a little bit closer together. I think there's an appreciation in the art jewelry world for techniques and processes that might not have been so accepted 10 or 20 years ago. I think there's an appreciation all around. I think I see contemporary jewelry making gestures that might have only happened in the art jewelry world 10 or 20 years ago.    Sharon: You also talk about the rift between fine art and jewelry. Can you talk a little bit about that?   Jonathan: I've got to say, I've met some great fine art collectors in New York and their jewelry has really stunk. I find it really funny when I see people who've got a great dress on and have a great art collection and mundane jewelry. It's the last thing that people think about sometimes. Although, the one person I'll say that always bucks the trend is Lindsay Pollock, who has great jewelry and has great art and knows great art.   Sharon: Who? I'm sorry; I didn't hear.   Jonathan: Lindsay Pollock, who used to be an editor at Art Forum. Now she also works for the Whitney Museum of Art, I think, as Director of Communications. I'm not sure, but she's a wonderful collector.    Sharon: And she has great jewelry.   Jonathan: Yes, and she knows the art world really well. Your question; please repeat it.   Sharon: The rift between fine art and jewelry. Is there a rift?   Jonathan: There's a difference. I think for so long people were trying to justify themselves, so people got defensive. Now people are starting to own what they do and who they are without the defense: “I'm not an artist, I'm a craftsperson” or “I'm a craftsperson, not an artist.” I think there's less apprehension about that now in terms of owning those fields. This is a conversation had by many people, but when modernism took its toll on craft, it stepped up its identity in many ways. I think since then, craftsmen and jewelers have been trying to figure out their way back to be on par with the rest of the arts. I think for a long time, because it wasn't modern art or contemporary art, there was a real apprehension about how we define artwork.   I think about how jewelry was, for a long time, just photographed on a white background so it reads as an object, like you're presenting it like a little sculpture. For many years, that's how it was presented. I find that representative of how we explain the work we were making. When you saw it, you generally saw it sitting on nothing except white, in a void, outside of any wearability or reference to the person, which I get. But when you think about that, for me, it has resonance. I also think that's kind of who we are and what we do. I think that's changing to some extent, but the art world and the craft world have been trying to figure out the relationship for a while.   Sharon: Do you make jewelry now?   Jonathan: I do. I just made a ring for myself with a beautiful piece of lapis that I came across. It's very plain and modernist. I had an old necklace from my former landlord who passed away and left it to me. I melted down this necklace, I milled the jewelry, I rolled down the sheet and I made a half-round wire that I put through the mill again so it was more like a trapezoid and set it again. Man, I was a jeweler for a day. I love good jewelry, and I like to represent.   Sharon: You like to represent? What do you mean?   Jonathan: I like to represent the field with a good piece of jewelry.   Sharon: Wow! You made the sheet metal and then you rolled your wire. The first time I saw somebody rolling wire, I thought, “You could buy wire. Why would anybody roll it?”   Jonathan: One great thing is I didn't have to buy new gold. Another great thing is I'm recycling the gold. I recycle, recycle, recycle whenever possible. I worked it all the way down, but I do not have a jewelry line. I rarely make jewelry on commission. Most of my studio practice is focused in other ways, although as I've been drawing for the past 12 years, I recently picked up my tin shears again. I have actually been making more tinwork, which is also reflective of our current state of politics and our country again. It's been fascinating to work in metal again, so stay tuned.    Sharon: How does it reflect where we are as a country or politically?    Jonathan: I'm making tinware again, and I think a lot of what's in question right now in our country is what is traditional? Who are Americans? There's a lot of questioning about do you fit, do you belong, what are those parameters, how are you judged as an American or not as an American. The painted tin I'm making right now is so understood as a traditional object and a traditional way of making. Mixing and presenting that work within this very traditional material and history of making is, again, a metaphor for traditionality. The viewer automatically looks at this thing and things it's an original object. It's meant to look very traditional, although right now I'm working on a six-foot-by-four-foot painted stenciled decal tray, which, after a few minutes of looking at it, you will know is definitely not from the 19th century. But again, the techniques and the feeling and the look are traditional, I find that that's what we're questioning right now. We're questioning what is traditional. What are these traditions?    The more I dig into these traditions, particularly in painted tinware—Japanware is what it was called. It was meant to imitate Japanese lacquerware. It had nothing to do with America. Another iteration is painted tinware that comes from a German and Scandinavian aesthetic, also not traditional American. So, these objects that you'd see in a folk museum and be like, “Yeah, Ohio, 1840, I got it,” these traditions and materials were not traditional until they became traditional. There's a lot of this material culture history that I find fascinating. It's very layered for me. I hope it's as interesting to the viewer. I have never really found the right format for many of my ideas or questions that fit into jewelry, and that's one of those cruxes. I've never found the right way for me to use jewelry or engage in jewelry with the same intents that I have in other materials or formats.    Sharon: What do you mean exactly? It doesn't fit into a category?   Jonathan: No, I can be really political with this tinware. I've never figured out how to get the same effect, with the same feeling, in jewelry. I find, for me, the wearing of jewelry is the great part of it, and I don't want my jewelry to say the same thing as my tinware. This is personal: I don't want my jewelry to work the same way as this giant tinware piece does, because I like this ring that fits on my finger. I love it, and I love when I get compliments on it. I think jewelry is special. It's great because we wear it.    As a sidenote, it was fascinating that during the pandemic, jewelry took off. Sales of jewelry took off. All my friends in the field of luxury jewelry and studio jewelry, they had great years. Jewelry is the stuff you take with you. Jewelry is the stuff you wear. Jewelry is the intimate stuff, and I think it was fascinating to know that in this time of extreme stress and trouble, people were going to jewelers to buy these things they could hold and keep and literally run with it if they had to. There is this intimacy of jewelry that people sought out, and that's special. It doesn't exist in other places. Those are the kinds of things, the resonance, that I want to embrace and love about jewelry and that I will not run away from.    One of the reasons why I started even playing around with images of jewelry, which led me to the drawings, is because I did this class at the Met called Into the Vaults. We went through all these different departments of the Met, jewelry and old jewelry. I came across the story of the Hannebery Pearls, which were pearls that were given to Catherine de Medici from her uncle, who was the Pope. This string of pearls went through the Hanoverians and then eventually into the British Crown Jewels. I thought, “Wow, if this string of pearls could talk, what we would know. What has it seen?” I was fooling around with this image of a gem, a ring that I had Photoshopped a historical scene from a movie on top of, so it almost looked like this gem was reflecting what it saw. I thought, “Wow, wouldn't it be amazing if there was a ring from ancient Greece that was passed down every generation until now, and that ring was held and worn by 200 generations?” I don't know how many generations that would be. That intimacy and history of an object doesn't exist in other places in the same way, where it's worn and carried with it. There's something about the intimacy of jewelry and the history that it can be embraced in a specific way that I really love.   Sharon: It's something very different and novel. I don't know if it's been done already.   Jonathan: I have an idea for a novel. I'll talk about it off-camera. We should talk about it. It's about that same kind of story, a will to survive.   Sharon: All right. Jonathan, thank you so much for talking with us today.   Jonathan: You're welcome.   Sharon: I expect an invitation to the opening of the 92nd Street Y in Los Angeles. I can't wait.   Jonathan: In the meantime, I hope you can come with us to Korea. As you know, I do trips around the world. South Korea is on the books, and there are a number of other wonderful things happening. The only residency for jewelry in New York City, called the JAIR, Jewelry Artist in Residence, that's happening this summer. Applications are open on our website. We had applications from 50 countries in 2019. It has been suspended since the pandemic.   Another little sidenote: I'm excited about a program called Team Gems, which is a fully-funded program for high school kids in New York City, Title 1 high schools in New York City. It's a fully-funded program for kids to get experience in jewelry that they wouldn't normally have, and will maybe create a pathway for a career in jewelry outside the academic model. I hope I'm going to be able to tell you more about it, but it's the first year and it's very exciting. Also, keep your ears open for my new series of talks coming up. I think this topic is going to be about enamel, and then hopefully a series in June in honor of Pride Month. A lot's going on at the Jewelry Center.   Sharon: Well, thank you for being here. We want to hear more about it in the future. Thank you so much, Jonathan. We greatly appreciate it.   Jonathan: Thank you, it's such a pleasure. Be well.   Sharon: You, too.   Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.

What you'll learn in this episode: How Jonathan moved from sculpture to jewelry to drawing, and why he explores different ideas with each medium How the relationship between craft and fine art has evolved over the years Why people became more interested in jewelry during the pandemic Why jewelers working in any style benefit from strong technical skills How you can take advantage of the 92nd Street Y's jewelry programming and virtual talks About Jonathan Wahl Jonathan Wahl joined 92nd Street Y in July 1999 as director of the jewelry and metalsmithing program in 92Y's School of the Arts, the largest program of its kind in the nation. He is responsible for developing and overseeing the curriculum, which offers more than 60 classes weekly and 15 visiting artists annually. Jonathan is also responsible for hiring and supervising 25 faculty members, maintaining four state-of-the-art jewelry and metalsmithing studios, and promoting the department locally and nationally as a jewelry resource center. Named one of the top 10 jewelers to watch by W Jewelry in 2006, Jonathan is an accomplished artist who, from 1994 to 1995, served as artist-in-residence at Hochschule Der Kunst in Berlin, Germany. He has shown his work in the exhibitions Day Job (The Drawing Center), Liquid Lines (Museum of Fine Arts Houston), The Jet Drawings (Sienna Gallery, Lenox MA, and SOFA New York), Formed to Function (John Michael Kohler Arts Center), Defining Craft (American Craft Museum), Markers in Contemporary Metal (Samuel Dorsky Museum of Art), Transfigurations: 9 Contemporary Metalsmiths (University of Akron and tour), and Contemporary Craft (New York State Museum). Jonathan was awarded the Louis Comfort Tiffany Emerging Artist Fellowship from the Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation, two New York Foundation for the Arts Fellowships in recognition of "Outstanding Artwork," and the Pennsylvania Society of Goldsmiths Award for "Outstanding Achievement." As part of the permanent collections of The Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York, The Museum of Fine Arts in Houston, TX, and The Museum of Arts and Design in New York, his work has been reviewed by Art in America (June, 2000), The New York Times (June 2005), and Metalsmith Magazine (1996, 1999, 2000 2002, 2005, 2009); his work was also featured in Metalsmith Magazine's prestigious "Exhibition in Print" (1994 and 1999). Jonathan's art work can be seen at Sienna Gallery in Lenox, Massachusetts, which specializes in contemporary American and European art work, and De Vera in Soho, New York. His work can also be seen in the publications The Jet Drawings (Sienna Press, 2008), and in three collections by Lark Books: 1,000 Rings, 500 Enameled Objects and 500 Metal Vessels. Before joining 92Y, Jonathan was, first, director of the jewelry and metalsmithing department at the YMCA's Craft Students League, and later assistant director of the League itself. Mr. Wahl holds a B.F.A. in jewelry and metalsmithing from Temple University's Tyler School of Art and an M.F.A. in metalsmithing and fine arts from the State University of New York at New Paltz. He is a member of the Society of North America Goldsmiths. Additional Resources: Website: www.jonathanwahl.com Website: www.92y.org/jewelry LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jonathancwahl Instagram: @jonathancwahl/   Photos: Available at TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript: With more than 60 jewelry classes offered weekly, the 92nd Street Y's Jewelry Center is by far the largest program of its kind in the country—and it's all run by award-winning sculptor, jeweler and artist Jonathan Wahl. He joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about the different relationships he has with jewelry and sculpture; why craftsmanship should be embraced by the art world; and what he has planned for 92Y in 2022. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. Here at the Jewelry Journey, we're about all things jewelry. With that in mind, I wanted to let you know about an upcoming jewelry conference, which is “Beyond Boundaries: Jewelry of the Americas.” It's sponsored by the Association for the Study of Jewelry and Related Arts, or, as it's otherwise known, ASJRA. The conference takes place virtually on Saturday and Sunday May 21 and May 22, which is around the corner. For details on the program and the speakers, go to www.jewelryconference.com. Non-members are welcome. I have to say that I attended this conference in person for several years, and it's one of my favorite conferences. It's a real treat to be able to sit in your pajamas or in comfies in your living room and listen to some extraordinary speakers. So, check it out. Register at www.jewelryconference.com. See you there.   This is a two-part Jewelry Journey podcast. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it comes out later this week. Today, my guest is Jonathan Wahl, Director of the Jewelry Center at the 92nd Street Y in New York City. The program is the largest of its kind in the country. In addition to his life in jewelry, Jonathan is an award-winning artist whose work is in the permanent collections of prestigious museums. It has been exhibited nationally and internationally. We'll hear more about his jewelry journey today and how art fits into that. Jonathan, welcome to the program.   Jonathan: Thank you, Sharon. It's a pleasure to be here. It's a pleasure to see you.   Sharon: It's nice to see you. Hopefully next time, it'll be in person.    Jonathan: I would love that.   Sharon: Jonathan, tell us about your jewelry journey. How did you get to jewelry? Was that where you originally started out?   Jonathan: Recently I've been doing a lot of interviews myself with artists around the world—virtually since the pandemic—as Director of the Jewelry Center, and one of the questions I always ask them is “How did you find your way to jewelry?” It's one of the questions I love to be asked because, at least for myself, it was interesting. I think all of us start out as artists, unless we're born into a jewelry family. Everyone learns how to draw. Everyone paints on their own. Maybe they have classes in high school. If you're lucky, you have a jewelry class in high school. I didn't, so like many people, I discovered jewelry in college at Tyler School of Art, which has one of the best jewelry programs in the country, but I didn't know jewelry existed until I went to art school.    When I went to art school, I thought I was going to be a graphic designer. Being the son of a banker and coming from a prep school, I figured I was going to be an artist, but I had to make a living. I wasn't going to be a painter, so I was thinking I was going to be a graphic designer when I grew up. At the college, I discovered jewelry in my sophomore year. Stanley Lechtzin said to me—I'll never forget it—“After you graduate you could design, if you wanted, costume jewelry in New York City,” and I thought, “That sounds kind of exotic and fun in New York City.” That's how my jewelry journey really began, in an elective class as a sophomore at Tyler School of Art.   Sharon: Where is Tyler? I'm not familiar with it.   Jonathan: In Philadelphia. It's part of Temple University.   Sharon: And Stanley Lechtzin, is he one of the professors there? I don't know that name.   Jonathan: Stanley Lechtzin really put the program on the map. He's in collections internationally. He pioneered the use of electroforming in individual objects. Electroforming was a commercial process used throughout the country for many different industrial applications, but Stanley figured out how to finetune it for the individual artist. His work has recently had some new-found appreciation because of the aesthetics from the 60s and 70s that are also coming back into vogue. His pieces are extraordinary.   Sharon: Before you came to the Y, did you design jewelry? Did you do art? Did you come home from your banking job and work on that stuff?   Jonathan: My father was a banker. I was not a banker. The closest I got to banking was working at a casino in Atlantic City one summer. My family has a house in Ocean City, New Jersey, so I could get to Atlantic City. I had to count a bank of anywhere between $30,000 and $70,000 a night. That's the closest I got to being a banker.    I quickly then moved to London. This was the summer of my senior year after Tyler. After I graduated from Tyler, I moved to London briefly and worked for a crafts gallery in northern London. Then I decided I wanted to go to graduate school. I came back for about a year to work towards applying to graduate school, which ultimately became SUNY New Paltz. I graduated Tyler in 1990, so most of my undergraduate years were in the 80s. If you're familiar with 80s jewelry, it was no holds barred. It was any kind of jewelry you wanted. My work—or at least my practice—quickly started to veer away from jewelry and towards objects and what I would call small sculpture. My choice to go SUNY New Paltz was specific because I didn't really want to make jewelry, but I was interested in the field and decorative arts, the material culture of jewelry and metalsmithing. That's what I pursued while I was in graduate school. I was recreating early American tinware about my experience as a gay American at that time. I wish there were visuals included, but that's what I was doing at SUNY New Paltz.    Sharon: How did you find that material?   Jonathan: The tinware was a metaphor for America, for traditionalism. The pieces were metaphors for the function or dysfunction of America. These objects were a little perverse, a little sublime and really honest about how frustrated I felt about being an American and growing up in Philadelphia during the bicentennial. I thought life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness was for everybody, but I found myself not really able to access the full extent of that saying, like many people in our country even today. But I'm happy to report that a piece from that era was just acquired by the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston. I'm thrilled that the older work is getting some interest. There's some interest from the New York Historical Society, which is not finalized yet, but it's interesting to see that work with new eyes 20-some years later.   Sharon: Congratulations!   Jonathan: When I was in Germany, my partner at the time was finishing his master's degree, and I was an artist in residence there at the Hochschule der Künste, which is now the Academy of Art, I think it's called. That was an interesting experience because Europeans in general, and Germans in particular, approach craft differently. They have a much longer and supportive tradition of craft of all kinds, so when they saw my tinware, it was a little confusing to them. I ended up in a program called small sculpture as an artist in residence because there was no jewelry program at this art university. It was interesting. It was curious.   Sharon: Tell us how you came to jewelry.   Jonathan: Jewelry eventually gets into my story. After leaving Berlin, I moved to New York. I knew I wanted to be a New York artist. That's the place I had to go. That's the place I had to find my destiny. I was walking around looking for positions in a gallery, which was what I thought I was supposed to do. I walked into one gallery and the director there said, “I don't have any gallery work for you, but I'm on the board of a not-for-profit gallery at the YWCA. That's the home of the Craft Students League. They are looking for a program associate, which pays a ridiculously low hourly wage but has health benefits.” I thought, “O.K., I can do that.”    That's when I found myself in the not-for-profit arts administration position that was developed into what I do now, at least part time. I was the program coordinator for the Craft Students League, which is unfortunately gone now, but had a wonderful ceramics, jewelry, painting, and book arts department. I ultimately became director of the jewelry studio and metalsmithing studio there, and then I became the assistant director of the whole program before I moved to the 92nd Street Y to become the director of the Jewelry Center here.   Sharon: Did they have an opening? How did you enter the 92nd Street Y?   Jonathan: Yes, there was an opening. There was John Cogswell. The Jewelry Center has some wonderful previous directors. It was Thomas Gentile from the late 60s to mid-70s, who really put this program on the map. He was followed by John Cogswell until the early 90s. Then briefly Shana Kroiz took over. She was between Baltimore and New York, and when she left the department, there was a call for a new director. That's when I joined the program here.   Sharon: Wow! I didn't know that Thomas Gentile was one of the—I don't know if you want to call it the founders, but one of the names that launched it.    Jonathan: Yeah. The program began in 1930 in its earliest form as a class in metalworking and slowly evolved into a few more classes. It became part of the one of the largest WPA programs in the country here at the 92nd Street Y, but it kind of floated along until Thomas came—and Thomas, forgive me if I get this wrong—in the mid-60s, I think, maybe later. He came in and really started to formulate a program of study here. He was the one who really created the Jewelry Center as a center.   Sharon: Was he emphasizing art jewelry or all jewelry?   Jonathan: There was a great book put out by the Museum of Modern Art in the 50s about how to make modern jewelry. Now, I don't know if the MOMA realized that they put out a book on how to make jewelry, but my point is in New York, I think there was still this idea of the modernist aesthetic and the artist as jeweler or jeweler as artist. I would say that Thomas was focused more on artist-made jewelry, the handmade, the one-of-a-kind object. It was still not looking in any way towards traditional or commercial jewelry.   Sharon: Jonathan, tell us what the 92nd Street Y is, because people may not know.   Jonathan: The 92nd Street Y is a 140-year-old institution here on the Upper East Side of New York City. It is one of New York City's most important cultural anchors. It has many different facets. We have a renowned lecture series. The November before the pandemic, I remember we had back-to-back Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Lizzo. Wednesday night it was Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and Thursday night it was Lizzo. Last night we had Outlander here, and I think we had a full house of 900 people plus 2,000 people online. We also have a world-renowned dance center that has a long history with Martha Graham and Bill T. Jones. In many ways, modern dance coalesced at the 92nd Street Y. The Jewelry Center has had a presence here at the Y since 1930. We have a wonderful ceramic center. We also have one of the most prestigious nursery schools in New York City. You name it.    The 92nd Street Y is a Jewish cultural center. It's part of the UJA Association, but it's kind of its own thing. It's a whole other story about what Ys are and the difference between YWCAs, YMCAs and YM-WHAs, which is what we are, but the 92nd Street Y is really a cultural center.   Sharon: When are you opening your West Coast branch in Los Angeles? Because you have such an incredible number of speakers and programs.   Jonathan: Many of them come from the West Coast. We had Andrew Garfield here the week before last to talk about his amazing performance for a Reel Pieces program with Annette Insdorf. I think that was a full house of 900 people for a performance from “Tick Tick Boom,” which was great. I don't know when we're coming to LA. We're just reemerging from the pandemic here in New York.   Sharon: This is not related to jewelry, but do you think that without the pandemic, you would have gone online to such an extent? Would it have been possible for people around the world, including on the West Coast, to see what's going on?   Jonathan: The pandemic was the catalyst to do something we'd always thought about, but yes, the pandemic definitely forced us to do it. On March 13, New York City shut down. That Monday, we flipped all of our classes, every single one of our classes in the Art Center, which is about 200 classes, to be virtual. That worked for some classes better than others, obviously for painting and drawing. It was fine for jewelry. It's tough if you don't have a studio. What we did through the summer is offer online classes. We still offer online classes to some extent, but my focus is on building back our in-person class schedule, which we're doing. We're over about half enrollment now from the pandemic and moving quickly towards three-quarters.   Sharon: Did the people who enrolled in hands-on jewelry classes, did that just stop with the pandemic?   Jonathan: Yes, it stopped from March 2020 until September 2020. In September, we actually opened back up for in-person classes. We wore masks. We were socially distanced. We were unvaccinated. I was taking the subway and it worked. It was slow at first, but I think this process is a part of many people's lives and this program is so meaningful for so many people. Being in New York, access to a studio is important, and very few people have studios at home. This is not only an important part emotionally of their lives, it's also literally, physically, an important part of making jewelry their practice.   Sharon: Since you started as director of the program, I know you've been responsible for growing it tremendously. Was that one of your goals? Did you have that vision, or there was just so much opportunity? What happened?   Jonathan: All of the above. There was a lot of opportunity. Unfortunately, the Crafts Students League closed shortly after I left. Parsons closed their department. There were a number of continuing education programs that left Manhattan, and this is before the country of Brooklyn was discovered, even though I lived there. There were no schools in Brooklyn, really. The 92nd Street Y became one of the few places to study when I came on.    Also, to my point about studying jewelry in art school, you're studying to be an artist generally in art school; you're not really studying to be a jeweler in the way most people understand jewelers to be. Although certainly at Tyler, it was a great technical education and I learned a lot of hard skills, many people, including myself, were not adept at those hard skills. We're not taught at a trade school, and I found that most of the people who were looking for jewelry classes wanted to make more traditional jewelry than the classes we were offering. Most of our faculty came from art school. There were some amazing people, Bob Ebendorf and Lisa Grounick(?) to name just a few, but as the 90s wore on and the aesthetic changed, I found that people really wanted to learn how to work in gold, how to set a stone. The aesthetics of jewelry shifted. You probably know yourself that the art jewelry world shifted a little bit too. For myself, I wanted to learn more hard skills, and I basically started creating classes that reflected my interests in how to make better wax carvings, how to set a brilliant-cut stone. I can then make that into what I want: studio jewelry, art jewelry, whatever, but those hard skills were lacking.    I've said this many times: I don't know that this program would exist in another city other than New York because there was so much talent here. There were people from the industry here. There were artists who were studio jewelers and art jewelers all at my fingertips. I think that was one of the ways it grew, not because I reduced the perspective of what was being made here, but because I enlarged the perspective of what was being made here or taught here.   Sharon: How did you do that? Did you do that by identifying potential teachers and attracting them? What did you do?   Jonathan: I was lucky to have some wonderful people in New York City at that time. We had a wonderful faculty to begin with, but we also were able to expand the faculty with incredible people who had recently resigned. Pamela Farland, who was a master goldsmith and was the goldsmith at the Metropolitan Museum of Art for many years, was on our stuff. Klaus Burgel, who was trained at the Academy of Munich, was here in New York and came to us as a faculty member. Tovaback Winnick(?), who was a master wax carver and worked for Kieselstein-Cord for many years, came on as well. Some people work here for a shorter period of my time. My good friend, Lola Brooks, was here and taught stone setting. There was some really stellar talent around that helped me build this program.   Sharon: That's quite a lineup you're mentioning.   Jonathan: And a really diverse lineup.   Sharon: Diverse in what sense?   Jonathan: Klaus' work is pure art jewelry: the iconic object, incredibly crafted, but what one would consider as art jewelry in its most essential sense. Lola Brooks, her work crosses the lines of both art and jewelry, and she's got a beautiful studio jewelry line. Then there are people like Pamela Farland, who made very classical, Greco-Roman, high-carat granulated stones, classical goldsmithing. Then there was Tovaback Winnick who teaches carving, which is how the majority of commercial jewelry is made. We had real range as well as your regular Jewelry 1, Jewelry 2, Jewelry 3 classes where we're teaching the basics of sawing, forming and soldering.   Sharon: You answered my question in part, but if somebody says, “I'm tired of working as a banker; I want to be a jeweler,” can you come to the Y and do that? Can you go through Jewelry 1, Jewelry 2, Jewelry 3 and then graduate into granulation? I don't know if there's a direct line.   Jonathan: Absolutely. We don't have a course of study. We don't have a certificate, but you can definitely come here and put your own skillset together. That's also what I found strong about the program, that it gave people access to put their skillsets together without going through art school or going through college. You're able to learn those hard skills in an environment where it's no frills.   Sharon: Are they mostly younger people, older people, people of all ages?   Jonathan: It's people of all ages. When I joked about the country of Brooklyn not being discovered yet, I lived in Williamsburg, Brooklyn for my whole New York life, so I'm speaking the truth. There really wasn't anything out there. If you were young and hip and cool when I lived in Brooklyn, you had to come here. So, for a long time, we had a much younger population that was cool, hip. Now, everybody has moved to the country called Brooklyn. That demographic has aged a little bit for us.    We have three classes during the day. We have a morning class, an afternoon class, a late afternoon class and then an evening class. If you're a younger person, it's most likely that you have a job, so you're going to come at night for our classes. That's only one-quarter of the population that can take a class here, because there's only one slot of night classes. There could be four classes happening at the same time, but all from 7:00-9:30. So, in general our population skews old because those are the people who are generally available during the day.    That being said, it's New York City. There are lots of different ways to make a living here. There are definitely people who are actors or bartenders or artists or what have you who do have time during the day and come here. It really depends on what class, but absolutely; we have all ages for sure. We also have kids' classes in the afternoon from 4:00-6:30.

Angela Westwater at 257 Bowery, 2020, photo by Alexei Hay Angela Westwater co-founded Sperone Westwater Fischer in 1975 with Italian art dealer Gian Enzo Sperone and German gallerist Konrad Fischer, opening a space at 142 Greene Street in SoHo, New York. (The gallery's name was changed to Sperone Westwater in 1982.) An additional space was later established at 121 Greene Street. The founders' original program showcased a European avant-garde alongside a core group of American artists to whom its founders were committed. Notable early exhibitions include a 1977 show of minimalist works by Carl Andre, Dan Flavin, Donald Judd, and Sol Lewitt; seven of Bruce Nauman's seminal early shows; six early Gerhard Richter shows; two Cy Twombly exhibitions in 1982 and 1989; eleven Richard Long exhibitions; and the installation of one of Mario Merz's celebrated glass and neon igloos in 1979 -- part of the gallery's ongoing dedication to Arte Povera artists, including Alighiero Boetti. Other early historical exhibitions at the Greene Street space include a 1989 group show, "Early Conceptual Works," which featured the work of On Kawara, Bruce Nauman, Alighiero Boetti, and Joseph Kosuth, among others; a 1999 Fontana exhibition titled "Gold: Gothic Masters and Lucio Fontana"; and selected presentations of work by Piero Manzoni. From May 2002 to May 2010, the gallery was located at 415 West 13 Street, in a 10,000-square foot space in the Meatpacking District. In September 2010, Sperone Westwater inaugurated a new Foster + Partners designed building at 257 Bowery. Today, over 45 years after its conception, the gallery continues to exhibit an international roster of prominent artists working in a wide variety of media. Artists represented by Sperone Westwater include Bertozzi & Casoni, Joana Choumali, Kim Dingle, Shaunté Gates, Jitish Kallat, Guillermo Kuitca, Wolfgang Laib, Helmut Lang, Amy Lincoln, Richard Long, Emil Lukas, David Lynch, Heinz Mack, Mario Merz, Katy Moran, Malcolm Morley, Bruce Nauman, Otto Piene, Alexis Rockman, Susan Rothenberg, Tom Sachs, Peter Sacks, Andrew Sendor, and William Wegman. Past exhibitions, press, and artworks can be found on the gallery website. Born in Columbus, Ohio, Westwater received her BA from Smith College and her MA from New York University. She arrived in New York City in 1971 and landed her first job as a “gallery girl” at the John Weber Gallery at 420 West Broadway. From 1972 to 1975, she served as Managing Editor of Artforum magazine. In 1975, the same year the gallery was founded, Westwater was appointed to the Board of Trustees of The Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation, where she has served as President since 1980. The books mentioned in the interview are The Free World, Art and Thought in the Cold War by Louis Menand and A Life of Picasso, The Minotaur Years by John Richardson. Joana Choumali, Untitled (Ça Va Aller), 2019, mixed media, 9 1/2 x 9 1/2 inches (24 x 24 cm), 16 1/4 x 16 1/4 inches (41,3 x 41,3 cm) Joana Choumali, WE ARE STILL NOW, 2022, mixed media, 4 parts; 38 1/2 x 78 inches (97,8 x 198,1 cm)

Kurt Kauper was born in Indianapolis, Indiana in 1966, and raised in a suburb of Boston, Massachusetts. He received his BFA from Boston University in 1988, and his MFA from UCLA in 1995. He has lived in New York City for the past 20 years. His figure paintings of historical and imagined people tend to leave expectations unfulfilled, and elude simple categorization. In contradistinction to his clear and precise articulations of form, Kauper's content is characterized by indeterminacy, unintentionality, ambiguity, fluidity, destabilization, strangeness, amorality, uselessness, and neutrality. He's had solo shows at ACME Gallery in Los Angeles, Deitch Projects in New York City, and Almine Rech Gallery, New York. He has been included in numerous group exhibitions both in the United States and Europe, including venues such as the Whitney Museum of American Art in New York, The Pompidou Center in Paris, the Kunsthalle Vienna, and the Stedelijk Museum in Gent. He has received numerous awards, including grants from the Elizabeth Greenshields Foundation, the Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation, and the Pollock Krasner Foundation. His work is included in the collections of The Museum of Modern Art, New York, The Whitney Museum of American Art, The Hammer Museum, The Oakland Museum of Art, the Weatherspoon Museum, and the Yale University Art Gallery. He has taught at The School of the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, Yale University, Princeton University, and the New York Academy of Art. He is currently a Professor of Art at Queens College in New York City.

Episode No. 517 features author Tyler Green with curator and art historian Elizabeth Kornhauser; and artist Lisa Corinne Davis. Tyler Green is the author of "Emerson's Nature and the Artists," which features a new appraisal of Ralph Waldo Emerson's classic text, new research that reveals how it was informed by Emerson's engagement with American art, and critical analysis of how the ideas Emerson offered in "Nature" informed American art for 100 years after it was published. Green is (usually) the producer/host of The Modern Art Notes Podcast. Green is interviewed by Elizabeth Kornhauser, a curator in the American Wing at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Along with Tim Barringer, Kornhauser curated "Thomas Cole's Journey: Atlantic Crossings" at New York's Metropolitan Museum of Art and London's National Gallery, which helped motivate his new book. Kornhauser's "Jules Tavernier and the Elem Pomo," which she co-curated with Shannon Vittoria, is on view now at the Met. She discussed it on Episode No. 515 of The MAN Podcast. "Emerson's Nature and the Artists" was published by Prestel. Indiebound and Amazon offer it for $25. For a personalized, signed copy, contact the author. On the second segment, Lisa Corinne Davis discusses her work on the occasion of "Point of Departure: Abstraction 1958–Present" at the Sheldon Museum of Art at the University of Nebraska. The exhibition, drawn primarily from the museum's collection, surveys two-dimensional abstraction and is on view through December 23. Davis' work is in the collection of museums such as the Museum of Modern Art, New York, the Philadelphia Museum of Art, and the Fine Arts Museums of San Francisco. Among her many awards are a National Endowment for the Arts Visual Artist Fellowship and a Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation award.

Rubén Ortiz-Torres es un artista nacido en México que vive y trabaja en Los Ángeles desde 1990. Comenzó su carrera como fotógrafo, grabador y pintor en la década de 1980, mucho antes de que recibiera su MFA en el California Institute of Arts en 1992. Ortiz-Torres es considerado uno de los artistas contemporáneos mexicanos más relevantes hoy, creador de una forma específicamente mexicana del posmodernismo durante la década delos ochenta. En los últimos diez años ha producido un cuerpo de trabajo en una amplia gama de medios— series de fotografías, de readymades alterados, una película, varios videos (incluyendo tres en 3D), instalaciones de video a gran escala, importantes series de pintura, esculturas, coches personalizados y máquinas, collages fotográficos, performance y también ha curado exhibiciones. Desde 1982, el trabajo de Ortiz-Torres ha sido presentado en 25 exposiciones individuales, más de 100 exposiciones colectivas en Estados Unidos, Europa, Australia, Nueva Zelanda y Canadá, y más de 50 proyecciones de sus películas y obras de vídeo. Los Angeles Times, The New York Times, Reforma (México), La Jornada (México) y El País (España), así como importantes publicaciones del mundo del arte como Artforum, Art Imágenes, Frieze, New Art Examiner, Poliester, Bomb, Flash Art y Art in America han escrito numerosos artículos sobre su trabajo. Ortiz-Torres ha sido el destinatario de numerosos premios y becas como Andrea Frank Foundation, Foundations for Contemporary Performance Art, U.S. Mexico Fund for Culture, Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation, the Banff Center for the Arts, y la beca de la Fullbright Foundation por mencionar algunas. Tracklisting DJ Dewey Decibel - Manhattan Dub / Sister Mantos, Gabriela Ortiz, Saúl Hernández - Como TV Gabriela Ortiz - El suicidio de Eleazar / Gabriela Ortiz - Las fronteras del mundo Rubén Ortiz - La Internacional --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/dominiopublico/message

Rubén Ortiz-Torres es un artista nacido en México que vive y trabaja en Los Ángeles desde 1990. Comenzó su carrera como fotógrafo, grabador y pintor en la década de 1980, mucho antes de que recibiera su MFA en el California Institute of Arts en 1992. Ortiz-Torres es considerado uno de los artistas contemporáneos mexicanos más relevantes hoy, creador de una forma específicamente mexicana del posmodernismo durante la década delos ochenta. En los últimos diez años ha producido un cuerpo de trabajo en una amplia gama de medios— series de fotografías, de readymades alterados, una película, varios videos (incluyendo tres en 3D), instalaciones de video a gran escala, importantes series de pintura, esculturas, coches personalizados y máquinas, collages fotográficos, performance y también ha curado exhibiciones. Desde 1982, el trabajo de Ortiz-Torres ha sido presentado en 25 exposiciones individuales, más de 100 exposiciones colectivas en Estados Unidos, Europa, Australia, Nueva Zelanda y Canadá, y más de 50 proyecciones de sus películas y obras de vídeo. Los Angeles Times, The New York Times, Reforma (México), La Jornada (México) y El País (España), así como importantes publicaciones del mundo del arte como Artforum, Art Imágenes, Frieze, New Art Examiner, Poliester, Bomb, Flash Art y Art in America han escrito numerosos artículos sobre su trabajo. Ortiz-Torres ha sido el destinatario de numerosos premios y becas como Andrea Frank Foundation, Foundations for Contemporary Performance Art, U.S. Mexico Fund for Culture, Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation, the Banff Center for the Arts, y la beca de la Fullbright Foundation por mencionar algunas. Tracklisting Rubén Ortiz - La zamba del Ché / Rubén Ortiz Torres - La Zamba del Chevy. Clorofila - llantera / Gabriela Ortiz - El jardín de las delicias. Professor Angel Dust - Leda y el Cisne. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/dominiopublico/message

Rochelle Feinstein is an artist who was born in the Bronx and grew up in Queens in NYC. She has exhibited her works nationally and internationally, has written about art and artists. A collection of selected writings, Pls. Reply, was published by Ugly Duckling Presse in 2019. Feinstein’s four concurrent retrospectives (2016-2019) were presented, and respectively titled, at these venues: In Anticipation of Women’s History Month, Centre d'Art Contemporain, Geneva, CH, I Made A Terrible Mistake, Lenbachhaus Stadtische, Munich, DE, Make it Behave, Kestner Gesellschaft, Hannover, DE, and Image of an Image, The Bronx Museum of the Arts, NYC. Recent solo exhibitions include, Rainbow Room/The Year in Hate, Campoli Presti, London, UK (2019), Fredonia!, and Nina Johnson Gallery Miami, FL (2020). Her works are represented in numerous public and private collections, and have been featured in numerous publications. She has been awarded fellowships and grants from Anonymous Was A Woman, the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Fellowship, the Foundation for Contemporary Arts, the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study, the Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation, and the Joan Mitchell Foundation. She was a recipient of the 2017-2018 Rome Prize Jules Guerin Fellowship in Visual Arts, American Academy in Rome. In 2017, Rochelle became Emerita Professor of painting/printmaking, Yale School of Art. Yale University. Her work has been covered in The New York Times, the Brooklyn Rail, Artforum, Time Out NY, the New Yorker, Artinfo and many others.

This week on the podcast we were blessed to talk to Amanda Pajak to talk all about Astrology and Tarot cards. Amanda was born and raised in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.  One of four siblings. She has a Masters's degree in Art History and Dress History from the Courtauld Institute of Art in London, UK, with a specialization in Costume and Material Culture.   She currently works at the American Federation of Arts (AFA) in NYC as Executive Administrator and the Manager of the Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation (a subset of the AFA).  She is also currently working on my second Masters's degree in Art Business at NYU. She an avid yogi and cyclist, and of course an astrologer and tarot card reader. Her favorite Astrologer is Cris Brennen http://www.chrisbrennanastrologer.com/ Her favorite app for astrology is Astro gold Email Amanda to set up an appointment amandapajak65@gmail.com FIND US! Husband and Wife Talk Follow along for all the extra fun! @husbandandwifetalk Alex Instagram @dancinggingeralex www.dancingginger.com Corey Instagram: @corey_loren  @halleloocreative www.halleloo.com - The H&WT Team

This week on the podcast we were blessed to talk to Amanda Pajak to talk all about Astrology and Taro cards. Amanda was born and raised in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. One of four siblings. She has a Masters degree in Art History and Dress History from the Courtauld Institute of Art in London, UK, with a specialization in Costume and Material Culture. She currently works at the American Federation of Arts (AFA) in NYC as Executive Administrator and the Manager of the Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation (a subset of the AFA). She is also currently working on my second Masters degree in Art Business at NYU. She an avid yogi and cyclist, and of course an astrologer and tarot card reader.Her favorite Astrologer is Cris brennen http://www.chrisbrennanastrologer.com/Her favorite app for astrology is Astro goldFIND US!AmandaEmail her to set up an appointment amandapajak65@gmail.comHusband and Wife TalkFollow along for all the extra fun!@husbandandwifetalkAlexInstagram @dancinggingeralexwww.dancingginger.comCoreyInstagram: @corey_loren @halleloocreativewww.hallelooproductions.com- The H&WT Team

Jonathan Wahl is an artist and jeweler whose art ranges from drawing and sculpture to jewelry and the decorative arts. His work is exhibited both nationally and internationally, and is part of the permanent collections of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the Houston Museum of Fine Arts and the Museum of Arts and Design in New York City. He has been featured or reviewed in publications as diverse as The New York Times, Art in America, The New Yorker, Architectural Digest, Oprah Magazine, W Jewelry, Philadelphia Inquirer, Metalsmith Magazine, Harper’s Bazaar and Advocate, among others. Jonathan has been awarded the Louis Comfort Tiffany Emerging Artist Fellowship from the Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation, two New York Foundation for the Arts Fellowships and the Pennsylvania Society of Goldsmiths Award for "Outstanding Achievement." In 2006, he was named one of the “Top 10 Jewelers to Watch” by W Jewelry. He has served as the Director of the Jewelry Center at the 92nd Street Y since 1999 and has guided the Center’s growth to become the largest program of its kind in the nation and the oldest open studio in NYC. What you’ll learn in this episode: Why Jonathan was originally planning on becoming a graphic designer and segued to become successful in jewelry. What inspires his work. How jewelry design and graphic design are connected. What is “bad” jewelry. Looking forward to New York Jewelry Week. Ways to contact Jonathan and learn more about his work: Website: www.jonathanwahl.com Website: www.92y.org/jewelry Upcoming group show at Katonah Museum “Outrageous Ornament” curated by Jane Adlin: www.katonahmuseum.org/exhibitions/upcoming New York Jewelry Week and 92Y’s programming in conjunction with it. Jewelry Talks: ‘Made in NYC’ with Stellene Volandes editor of Town and Country Magazine, Nov 12, 7 pm ‘Influencers’ with Marion Fasel author of the Aventurine Tuesday, Nov 13, 7 pm Newest work: www.jonathanwahl.com/inverted-water LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jonathancwahl Instagram: @jonathancwahl/  

Today we're shouting out to Vote Save America, AND the NY Times podcast from last weekend, The Last "Year of the Woman". Our first guest is Judy Linn, photographer and Vassar professor, best known for her book Patti Smith 1969-1976 : Photographs by Judy Linn. Judy talks about her relationship to photography which started out quite rocky and quickly becomes the thing that she needs to try and figure out leading her to a lifelong relationship with the art form, and a very successful career. Judy has had portfolios published in Artforum and BOMB magazine, and her photographs are included in the collections of the Museum of Modern Art, the Whitney Museum of American Art, the Detroit Art Institute, the Dallas Museum of Art, and the Getty Collection, among others. She has received an award from the American Academy of Arts and Letters and grants from the Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation, Anonymous Was A Woman, and the Peter S. Reed Foundation. Judy shares so honestly about her life and her unique perspectives including her belief that all photographs lie. She's working on another book of photography taken in the early 70's from her time in Detroit working for a local paper. Can't wait for this...hint, bouffant hair and pointy collars. Our second guest is Jessica Vecchione, videographer and documentarian. Her company is Vecc Videography, she's been an accomplished videographer in the Hudson Valley for over 20 years. She recently released SMACKED, her new documentary film about the opiate crisis. This 69 minute film was her way of truly uncovering all that is happening with the police, the health care system, and those who struggle with the addiction. Jessica shares how she really broke through in film by making a documentary about the town of Fleischmans. She works with many nonprofits in the Hudson Valley and across New York State. Jessica's advice to aspiring videographers/filmmakers, just do it, follow your passion, and be kind along the way Self care! Be KIND!!! Move from the heart space. Don't fall into the patriarchal trap of operating from the analytical mind. Vote Save America: | NY Times Podcast "Year of the Woman: Today's show was engineered by Manuel Blas of Radio Kingston, www.radiokingston.org. We heard music from Shana Falana, http://www.shanafalana.com/, and audio from the film, She's Beautiful When She's Angry, http://www.shesbeautifulwhenshesangry.com ** Please: SUBSCRIBE to our pod and leave a REVIEW wherever you are listening, it helps other users FIND US :) Follow Us: INSTAGRAM * https://www.instagram.com/iwantwhatshehaspodcast/ FACEBOOK * https://www.facebook.com/iwantwhatshehaspodcast TWITTER * https://twitter.com/wantwhatshehas

MARSHA COTTRELL (b. 1964) lives and works in Brooklyn, NY. Cottrell was educated at The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (MFA) and Tyler School of Art (BFA). Cottrell is a recipient of the 2013 Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation, Biennial Award; the 2007 Pollock-Krasner Foundation, Fellowship Grant in Drawing; the 2004 Harvestworks Digital Media Arts Center, Educational Grant; the 2003 New York Foundation for the Arts, Fellowship Grant in Drawing; the 2001 John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation, Fellowship; the 1999 New York Foundation for the Arts, Fellowship Grant in Digital Arts; and the 1999 Marie Walsh Sharpe Art Foundation, Space Program. Cottrell has had solo exhibitions at Anthony Meier Fine Arts, San Francisco (2016); Eleven Rivington (2015), New York, NY; g-module, Paris, France (2003); Henry Urbach Architecture, New York, NY (2003); Gaga, New York, NY (2000), among others. Group exhibitions include Gray Matters, organized by Michael Goodson, Wexner Center for the Arts, Columbus, OH; Worlding: Lucas Blalock, Marsha Cottrell, Ben Hagari, Ajay Kurian, and Hayal Pozanti, organized by Mia Curran, University of Western Michigan, 2017; One Third White, Kunst im Tunnel (KIT), Dusseldorf, Germany, 2013; and Field Conditions, San Francisco Museum of Modern Art, San Francisco, CA, 2012. Selected public collections include The Museum of Modern Art, New York, NY; The Morgan Library and Museum, New York, NY; The National Gallery of Art, Washington, D.C.; Philadelphia Museum of Art, Philadelphia, PA; Pollock Gallery, Southern Methodist University, Dallas, TX; and San Francisco Museum of Modern Art, CA. Brian met up with Marsha at her solo show to talk about quiet and light and more.

An-My Le’s work explores the American military. She presents photographs of landscapes transformed by war or other military activities, blurring the boundaries between Hollywood portrayals and photojournalistic documentation. Much of her work is inspired by her own experiences of war and dislocation. Lê was born in Saigon and moved to the United States as a political refugee when she was fifteen. She received her Bachelor of Applied Science and Master of Science degrees in biology from Stanford University and her Master of Fine Arts in photography from Yale University. Her work has been widely exhibited internationally. Le has had solo exhibitions at the Baltimore Museum of Art; Museum annde Stroom, Antwerp; Dia:Beacon, New York; Henry Art Gallery, Seattle; San Francisco Museum of Modern Art; Museum of Contemporary Photography, Chicago; and MoMA PS1, New York. Le is the recipient of numerous awards including fellowships from the New York Foundation for the Arts, the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation, the Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation and the MacArthur Foundation. She is a Professor of Photography at Bard College. Lê is represented by Murray Guy Gallery in New York. The Audain Distinguished Artist-in-Residence Program has a mandate to bring internationally renowned contemporary artists to Vancouver, create curriculum specific to each individual visiting artist and support the creation of new works. The residency program is generously funded by Michael Audain.

This week: Amanda and Patricia have a .... spirited....discussion with two of BAS's favorite artists (and the greatest oversight in our interview history until now) Stan Shellabarger and Dutes Miller. Go see their show, it's awesome! Next, Brian and Duncan talk to Courtney Fink of Art Publishing Now while at Southern Exposure. Did we really get the "bums rush" from the Propellor fund, oh yes we did!   Lifted relevant info: Art Publishing Now is a two-day event dedicated to the investigation and showcasing of art publishing practices in the Bay Area. It includes a day of presentations and critical discussions, an after-party, an art publishers fair, library and archive.   Western Exhibitions is pleased to present an exhibition by husband-and-husband artist team Miller & Shellabarger. The show opens on Friday, October 15 with a reception, from 5 to 8pm, which is free and open to the public. This second showing at Western Exhibitions of Miller & Shellabarger's collaborative pursuits will focus on works from several inter-related projects including Volume 6 of their large-scale silhouette artist books, documents from a recent performance involving funeral pyres and intimate, discrete objects that utilize embroidery and carved shells. The silhouette is a key component in several of these new works. Miller & Shellabarger first employed silhouettes in large-scale artist books that contained their individual profiles, each one cut by the other. We will show the most recent book in this series as well as other silhouette-based works that use the silhouette as a starting point, including conjoined beard silhouette collages traced by friends and two embossed lead pieces that feature similar imagery. We will also show larger-than-life, phantasmagorical images, created during their  "Summer Studio" artist residency at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago's Sullivan Galleries in 2010 which take advantage of the distortions of the silhouetted figure in light and shadow. Life-size body tracings of each other are realized in large drawings on paper made with gunpowder, and in a small book of photographs of body tracings made with seeds. Additional work will include a twin set of pillowcases, each monogrammed with their initials using hair from their beards as thread, a delicate cameo depicting the two with their beards intertwined carved out of sardonic shell by an Italian master carver, and photographs from a recent performance "Untitled (Pyre)" where they found two naturally fallen trees in the forest, chopped them, and stacked the fireplace-sized pieces into roughly human-size forms, and burned these pyres at dusk. Miller & Shellabarger are a 2009 recipient of the Peter S. Reed Foundation Grant, 2008 recipient of an Artadia Award, and a 2007 recipient of a Louis Comfort Tiffany Foundation award. Their work is in the collections of the Nerman Museum of Contemporary Art and the National Gallery of Canada in Ontario. In 2010 they showed a major selection of work at the Institute of Contemporary Art, Portland, Maine, participated in the Time-Based Arts (TBA) festival in Portland, Oregon and will have a solo exhibition in 2011 at the Illinois State University Galleries in Normal, Illinois. Their work has been written about in Artforum.com, Art & Auction, Frieze, Artnet, The Art Newspaper, Flash Art, TimeOut Chicago, and the Chicago Sun-Times. Dutes Miller and Stan Shellabarger also maintain separate artistic practices. They live and work in Chicago.