Life with Fire

Welcome to the third and final episode of our Community Wildfire Resilience Series, supported by Fire Aside!In this episode, we spoke with Butte County Fire Safe Council Executive Director Taylor Nilsson. Butte County, CA has seen more catastrophic fire in the last eight years than most places in the West, possibly even the world. Starting with the Camp Fire in 2018 (85 killed, 14,000 homes lost), then the North Complex in 2020 (16 killed, 2,300 structures lost), then the Park Fire in 2024 (700+ structures destroyed), Butte County has seen 50% of its Wildland Urban Interface impacted by wildfire in the last seven years, and over 90% of its WUI impacted since 1999. This being the case, folks in this area have a deep understanding not only of preparing for wildfire, but of the long process of recovering from it—while knowing from experience that they simultaneously need to be preparing for the next one. Taylor spoke about the challenges of preparing for more fire while also recovering from—in Butte County's case—multiple deeply impactful wildfires that communities are still reeling from. In what has become an increasingly common occurrence in California, communities can still be deep in the recovery phase as a fire scar cycles back into susceptibility to wildfire. The Camp Fire scar, for example, is becoming increasingly at risk to more wildfire, particularly as these previously forested landscapes have become more brush-dominated post-fire. Reforestation and restoration in such landscapes (particularly those undergoing a vegetation type conversion) is tricky, and Taylor speaks to this too—to the realities of salvage logging and how this practice can fit into sound restoration planning, as well as to the lack of technology to handle the significant biomass that needs to be removed to make recently un-burned landscapes in Butte County more resilient to future fire. We talked about the immense community trauma, and how Taylor and the Butte County staff have worked through their own healing processes while facing this community trauma firsthand. Above all, this episode highlighted the critical work that Fire Safe Councils in California do, in part because they are working one-on-one with community members in many cases and can therefore be a consistent, guiding presence through the wildfire preparedness, response and recovery phases. Communities and residents recovering from wildfire need a sustained, familiar presence like this, and this is exactly the type of thing that reduces recovery timelines and helps communities heal. As we wrap up this series, we want to once again thank Fire Aside for their support of the last three episodes of the podcast. Support like this allows us to keep this thing rolling, and we can't express how grateful we are to our supporters—past and present, including on Patreon! Thank you, thank you, thank you for believing in what we're doing!Check out Butte County FSC on their socials (linked below)! Whether you live in Butte County or not, I think their website and some of their programming is very replicable elsewhere, so give them a follow and remember—imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/buttefiresafeInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/buttefiresafe/?hl=enWebsite: https://buttefiresafe.netLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/butte-county-fire-safe-council/ Time Stamps: 00:00 - Episode Start00:42 - Amanda Intro07:39 - Taylor's Background09:45 - Recent Fires In Butte County12:08 - Dealing with Hazard Trees14:56 - Trauma-Informed Care Post-Fire17:36 - Recovery Takes Multiple Years18:52 - Current Butte County Work On Burn Areas21:45 - Cost Of Removing Hazard Trees22:41 - Presence of Blue Stain In Recently Burned Areas24:56 - Salvage Logging as Part of Restoration Planning25:45 - Mill Infrastructure In Butte County28:26 - Butte County Population Response29:47 - Participation Rates in Fire Safe Council Programming31:35 - How Fire Aside Has Bolstered The Work the Butte County FSC Is Doing38:04 - Communities Are Struggling With Staffing—What Does This Mean For Recovery?40:12 - Fire Safe Council In Collaboration with Other Local Entities41:06 - Butte County Collaborative Group43:51 - The Importance of Sharing Lessons Learned 45:43 - Prioritizing the Knowledge and Practices Of Local Indigenous Tribes46:45 - Amanda Outro47:32 - End Of Episode

Welcome to the second episode in our series about community-level wildfire resilience, supported by Fire Aside! We spoke with Fire Aside CEO and co-founder Jason Brooks about how Fire Aside—a home assessment platform that allows agencies to have direct 1:1 engagement with residents on resilience actions they can take—fits into bigger picture policy, data and decision making around community wildfire resilience in California and beyond.Fire Aside was developed in Marin County, CA alongside the county fire department there, a partnership that was spurred by Jason's own interest in improving the wildfire resilience of his own property and not knowing exactly where to start. That was in 2020—now, Fire Aside is being used by over 100 departments in nine states to increase the efficiency of their home assessment processes and improve engagement with residents who want to improve their defensible space and home hardening. It's become clear that increasing resilience actions at the neighborhood level, rather than just the homeowner level, is the best way to meaningfully reduce risk in the WUI, where fires often spread home to home rather than via vegetation; this scale piece is a huge part of what Fire Aside does, and is what makes it such a compelling technology in an era of urban conflagrations like those in LA this winter (or Boulder, Lahaina, Paradise etc before). Jason and I spoke about the impetus for developing the platform, as well as how it can potentially be utilized to help inform decision making and even funding needs at the city or county level. Down the road, the data procured from Fire Aside may even be useful in informing state policy or other big picture decision making. (Disclaimer: Fire Aside does not own any of the data that is compiled through the app/platform. Residents and departments using the platform own this data.)We appreciate Fire Aside's work and their support of this series on community resilience—if you or your organization are responsible for wildfire risk assessments, we really can't recommend this technology enough. A few action items!Consider following Fire Aside on Linkedin. Check out some Fire Aside testimonials on Youtube. Slightly unrelated but please consider supporting justice and exoneration for firefighter Brian "Hakiym" Simpson. You can read about the case here. You can sign the petition here, or donate to a local mutual aid organization supporting Hakiym here. 

Welcome to the first episode in a three-part series about community wildfire resilience, sponsored by Fire Aside. This episode explores a number of big, meaty topics you've likely been hearing about in the wildfire space, from wildfire insurance to categorical exclusions to NEPA to wildfire resilience policy in the era of urban conflagrations like those in LA this winter. Our fearless leader on this journey is former CAL FIRE Chief Deputy Director Chris Anthony, who has worked with some major players in the wildfire space since retiring in 2023. His consultation clients have included entities in the nonprofit, academic, philanthropic, agency and private industry (including Fire Aside) spaces, while also serving as a board member for the Earth Fire Alliance and California Fire Safe Council.Chris has a deep understanding of wildfire resilience at both the landscape scale (think fuels management and big-picture restoration projects) as well as at the community scale (think home hardening, defensible space and how counties and cities engage with homeowners). This breadth of experience has made him instrumental in informing and advancing critical wildfire policy at the state level in California, while also getting involved in projects that leverage technology to help us better understand and mitigate risk to wildfire. After 30 years in CAL FIRE, his goals upon leaving the agency were simple: 1. Bring fire back to fire-adapted ecosystems.2. Build more understanding around what strategies and mitigative actions can meaningful reduce risk in communities.3. Develop and support policies that help us meet these two goals.4. Find innovators and technologies that can help scale up some of the critical actions we need to take to move the needle on fire resilience. We would like to extend a huge thank you to Fire Aside for sponsoring this series. Fire Aside is a home assessment platform that helps fire departments, conservation districts and other entities perform more thorough wildfire risk assessments, while also providing a platform for directly engaging homeowners in taking meaningful action to improve their resilience. Learn more at FireAside.com.

Today's episode is all about post-fire—how to plan and prepare for post-fire challenges like debris flows and landslides, how to recover at a community and landscape scale, how to maintain a love of place after it's impacted by fire, and how we can reduce suffering in this often dynamic phase of wildfire response and recovery.Our guest on this topic is Collin Haffey, the Post Fire Recovery Program Manager for the Washington DNR, who prior to working with the DNR worked as the Forest and Watershed Health Coordinator for the New Mexico Forestry Division during the catastrophic 2022 Hermits Peak-Calf Canyon Fire. This fire burned over 340,000 acres in largely rural areas that were also, subsequently, impacted by intense debris flows and mudslides, spurred by monsoonal rain events only weeks after the fire burned through the area. These debris flows were in many cases more devastating to residents in these areas than the fires themselves—they destroyed wells and water systems, devastated roads and other infrastructure and destroyed hundreds of homes, including century-old adobe homes that had housed multiple generations of native New Mexicans. If you're interested in learning more about the HP-CC Fire, I highly recommend the in-depth reporting of Patrick Lohmann at Source NM. I also wrote about the post-fire impacts of the Hermits Peak-Calf Canyon, as well as potential policy solutions, for Land Lines Magazine back in 2023. For some background: post-fire concerns range from erosion and flooding events that can have major impacts on infrastructure and watersheds (and systems), but also includes the process of reforestation, erosion reduction and reducing the incursion and spread of invasive species in delicate post-fire landscapes. How communities prepare and plan for these challenges can make an immense difference in how quickly they recover, and Collin's work focuses heavily on encouraging communities to better prepare not just for wildfire, but for what comes after it. One of Collin's biggest projects at present is the After the Fire Washington website, where you can find tried-and-true recovery practices, resources for landowners, community members and community leaders, case studies and other information. Finally, if you'd like to read a bit more about Collin's experiences and insights gained from seeing the HP-CC Fire impacts first hand, check out this great blog post he wrote for the Fire Adapted Communities Learning Network: Stuck in the Mud: Gaps in Post-Fire Recovery Programs - Fire Adapted Communities Learning NetworkTimestamps: 00:00 - Episode Start 00:38 - Amanda Monthei Intro 06:54 - Start of conversation—Collin's background 08:17 - Gaps In post-fire conversation, preparedness and planning 09:57 - Lessons From Calf Canyon/Hermits Peak Fire12:41 - Good examples of post-fire response 14:25 - Need someone to direct post-fire tasks16:14 - Is the only way to learn about recovery through experience? 16:52 - Suppression vs. recovery teams—a need for both18:39 - The importance of community recovery collaboratives 21:00 - Developing a CWPP 24:35 - Overthinking CWPP documents26:35 - Common post-Fire challenges 29:02 - Managing mental & emotional trauma (both community and practitioner) during the post-fire period33:12 - How community and resident relationships to the land change after wildfires32:33 - Fostering a love of place after (and despite) wildfire35:03 - Getting community involved in post-fire preparedness36:43 - Disconnect between FEMA & local organizations 38:36 - What does a community that is well-prepared for post fire challenges look like?

There's been a lot of postulating about whether the firing of some 4400 (and counting) Forest Service and National Park employees on Friday will have an impact on fire operations this summer. We spoke with Riva Duncan, who has decades of experience in fire operations for the US Forest Service (before retiring with the agency), and her answer couldn't be more clear: yes, these losses in capacity are already having an impact on our ability to suppress wildfires this summer. Riva is vice president of Grassroots Wildland Firefighters, which advocates and provides a voice for the wildfire workforce. Consider donating to support their work! 

In our sixth and final episode of the Fire in the Southwest Series—sponsored by the Southwest Fire Science Consortium and the Arizona Wildfire Initiative—we explore the complex, multicultural fire histories and management dynamics in New Mexico, with State Forester and Tribal Liaison Lindsey Quam.New Mexico's recent relationship with fire has been fraught with distrust in the aftermath of the 2022 Calf Canyon Hermits Peak Fire, which started from an escaped prescribed fire and an escaped pile burn. Lindsey's career has been bookended by such events, having started his career in Los Alamos, NM in the aftermath of the 2000 Cerro Grande Fire, which also started as an escaped prescribed fire. This has allowed him to witness first hand how public trust has ebbed and flowed around the use of prescribed fire. It's also presented opportunities for him to help shape and better understand the many mixed emotions New Mexicans have around this topic.Lindsey spoke to how the intersecting cultures and management values across New Mexico—including Indigenous peoples, the Hispanic population and, well, white people—presents challenges but also opportunities in trying to extoll the merits of prescribed fire."There's no dispute amongst native New Mexicans who live off the land—there is a recognition that fire is important and necessary, but there's also a fear," Lindsey, who is himself a member of the Zuni Pueblo, said.Lindsey also shared how his agency is scaling up forest treatments through collaboration, and establishing priority landscapes to implement landscape-scale resilience projects.If you'd like to learn more about acequias, which are mentioned in this episode, I can't recommend Patrick Lohmann's reporting enough. He is a journalist with Source NM and did some stellar reporting on the impacts of the Calf Canyon Hermits Peak Fire on acequias and traditional (and often rural) communities in northern New Mexico. 

For our fifth episode of the the Fire in the Southwest Series, we're talking managed wildfires, which has a number of alter egos depending on who you talk to in the wildfire world, some of which include "wildland fire use" or "managing wildfires for resource benefit".Dr. Jose "Pepe" Iniguez, a research ecologist at the Rocky Mountain Research Station, is our fearless leader on this journey through the fraught, occasionally contentious world of managed fire. Pepe has had a long career studying wildfire impacts in forested landscapes while building a better understanding of how our public lands have been shaped by disturbances like wildfire. His takeaway? We can't effectively manage forests at the landscape scale without the help of wildfires, and managed fire is the most feasible answer to the question of how we reach "scale" in our ability to build landscape resilience.In short, managed fires are often lightning-caused wildfires that are determined to be burning in an area that is not likely to impact nearby communities, infrastructure, watersheds etc. As such, they are not managed with "full suppression" as the main priority. They are heavily monitored by ground resources (if its accessible) and aircraft, though on occasion these fires become "wildfires for resource benefit" merely because there are no resources to attend to them. See: the 2021 fire season in California. Often, these types of fires are burning in wilderness areas where fire suppression is often extremely difficult because of a lack of access and, and made all the more difficult by designations that disallow the  use of things like chainsaws and helicopters. Want more information about managed fire? Check out this fact sheet from our sponsor for this episode, the Southwest Fire Science Consortium. A huge thank you to both the Southwest Fire Science Consortium and the Arizona Wildfire Initiative for supporting this episode and all of the other episodes from our Fire in the Southwest Series. Timestamps: 00:00 - Episode Start 01:31 - Pepe's Background 07:56 - 1996 Fires11:04 - The Early Days Of Managed Fire 14:01 - Thinning Versus Fire, Thinning PLUS Fire16:00 - Prescribed Fire Scales As A Tool 17:40 - Pepe's View On Managed Fire 19:48 - Lessons Learned with Managed Fire22:24 - The Benefit of Starting Small in Building A Managed Fire Program 25:24 - Experimental Forests 28:27 - Hotshot Crews Work On the Long Valley Experimental Forest 30:47 - Smaller, More Local Incident Management Teams Often Work Better 32:56 - Social Implications Of Managed Fires 35:29 - Thoughts on Improving Public Perception of Managed Fires  38:30 - Prescribed Fire and Managed Fire Have Different Liabilities40:06 - Do We Need A Fire Influencer? Pepe suggests Britney Spears. 41:37 - The Work of the Southwest Fire Consortium 49:50 - Episode End

If you've found yourself wondering "where the heck is the aircraft?" while watching a fire burn near you, this is the episode for you.Guest Matt Lynde—a helicopter operations specialist for the Forest Service's Regional Office in California—gave us a run-down on why some fires have huge airshows and others have almost none, and even tackled a few common misconceptions about the use of aircraft in fighting wildfires. Among these misconceptions is the idea that aircraft put fires out and that if you don't see aircraft on a fire, that means it's not a high priority for fire managers. As Matt explains in this episode, there's a ton that goes into the decisions on where aircraft goes and when, and noted how challenging it is to prioritize certain fires over others during big fire seasons when resources are limited.Matt also spoke about his career as a helicopter coordinator, and how he climbed the ranks from being on engines and helitack for the Forest Service early in his career to finding an interest in aerial supervision and coordination later in his career. If you have an interest in working on the aerial side of things within the Forest Service, this is a good episode for you.This episode of Life with Fire was created in conjunction with Region Five of the Forest Service, for a project that explores some of the common public misconceptions about aerial firefighting. The full Storymap can be found here. Timestamps: 00:00 - Episode Introduction05:07 - Matt's Introduction And Background 06:51 - Helicopter Coordinator Position Details08:38 - Matt's Initial Interest In Aviation 10:22 - Changes In Air Attack 12:19 -  Safety Procedures And Risk Factors of Aerial Firefighting14:45 - Misconceptions About Aircraft Firefighting17:36 - Benefits Of Helicopter Coordination18:53 - Fire Retardant Use—Benefits and Limitations20:14 - How Aircraft Supports Firefighters On The Ground 23:32 - Other Limitations To Fighting Fire With Aircraft 25:06 - What Factors Inform Availability of Aerial Support 28:02 - Lack Of Resources Problem 30:03 - Outro 

With fire season escalating across the West this week, many people are downloading Watch Duty App for the first time. But what is Watch Duty all about? Why was it created? Where does their information come from? What do agency employees think about it?We spoke to Watch Duty CEO John Mills about the Watch Duty app as well as fire technology more broadly, and gave him a chance to respond to some listener questions from PIOs, wildland firefighters, community resilience experts and others in the Life with Fire community. His responses are about as no-BS as they come, and he provided an honest assessment of where the app is currently and where he'd like it to be in the near and far-off future. A few things they're adding in the near future include a version of the app just for first responders, which John speaks to in the episode, while in the longer term he's looking forward to exploring how Watch Duty can provide more opportunities for community education about wildfire and wildfire resilience. Timestamps: 07:33 - Interview starts, John explains his background in Silicon Valley10:10 - The Beginnings Of Watch Duty 12:12 - John's experiences of the Walbridge Fire 13:21 - Watch Duty's Functionality 16:20 - How they find reporters/contributors for Watch Duty 18:06 - Concerns and Questions from PIOs/PAOs 21:07 - Gaining Trust And Users 22:25 - The Future of The App25:01 - Upcoming Watch Duty Features   26:48 - Public Education Features 29:40 - Watch Duty's Role In The Fire Tech Space 34:48 - John's Thoughts On the Fire Tech Industry 42:39 - Watch Duty's Main Benefit Is Efficiency 47:16 - How People Use Watch Duty 49:50 - The Reason They Don't Allow Comments on Watch Duty50:49 - Outro 

Welcome to episode four of our Fire in the Southwest Series, supported by the Southwest Fire Science Consortium as well as the Arizona Wildfire Initiative! Today's guest, Zander Evans, is the executive director of the Forest Stewards Guild, which has a mission of promoting ecologically-, economically-, and socially-responsible forestry as a means of sustaining the integrity of forest ecosystems and the human communities dependent upon them. Based in Santa Fe, New Mexico, the Guild's team—including Zander, who has worked there for over 17 years—has seen the first-hand impacts of some of the most destructive wildfires of the last two decades, including the 2022 Calf Canyon/Hermits Peak Fire.Zander and Amanda spoke about the role of the Forest Stewards Guild in helping provide more capacity for often resource-strapped agencies, as well as how their roles are shifting with the legacy and rise in megafires like the CC/HP Fire. We discussed the Guild's objective to connect work on the ground to policy, while creating a network of land stewards that can learn from each other and share resources, lessons learned and other critical information that can help others dealing with similar issues across the country. We covered a lot in this episode, and in classic form, Amanda asked many difficult-to-answer questions that Zander did a great job of tackling—including questions about trauma-informed community engagement, how to continue to get good work done within a legacy of escaped prescribed fires and how communities can more effectively prepare for the "post-fire" piece of the resilience equation. Things mentioned in the episode:Santa Fe FireshedGoFundMe for Smokey Bear Hotshots. Many of the crew's members tragically lost their homes in the fires near Ruidoso, NM last week. They were responding to the fire when this happened. Please support if you're able! Timestamps: 07:56 - The Guild's Intersection With Wildfire Management13:38 - Engagement Practices Since Calf Canyon/Hermits Peak15:38 - Keeping Agency Folks In Same Roles/Locations Would Help Collaborative Efforts16:44 - Guild Partnership With The Forest Service19:27 - Hermits Peak Calf Canyon Fire Aftermath And Community Perception of Prescribed Fire23:57 - Zander's Recommendations For Other Fire Prone Communities26:12 - Santa Clara Pueblo Takeaways28:00 - Community Wildfire Protection Plans (CWPPs) Should Include Post Fire Element30:20 - Preplanning For Post Fire Impacts and Things To Consider In Pre Planning37:14 - Encouraging People To Go Back Outside After Experiencing Fire Trauma39:05 - The Santa Fe Fireshed and Using Watershed Concerns to Frame Management Practices44:24 - Implementation Takes Community Engagement!

Welcome to our third episode of our Fire in the Southwest series! In this episode, we spoke with Jon Martin, who is the Director of Native American Forest and Rangeland Management Programming at the Ecological Restoration Institute at Northern Arizona University. Jon spent three decades working in forestry before retiring, and now uses his extensive interagency background to find pathways that can help tribes achieve their management goals within a Western fire management framework.This topic is especially prescient right now, as the Wildfire Commission Report was explicit in its recommendations to incorporate more Indigenous knowledge into land management (see: recommendations 12, 15, 16). However, while this directive is a step in the right direction, actually accomplishing it will require overcoming significant workforce and budget constraints at the ground level, especially within tribal communities.Jon and Amanda spoke about what this integration of different management practices can look like, how to overcome those barriers, the differences between cultural and agency fire, as well as the fundamental question of whether or not the differences between cultural and agency fire can be meaningfully reconciled. Jon also provided a great example of this integration working (the San Carlos Apache Tribe's use of Crisis Strategy/Infrastructure Bill funding). Finally, we wrapped the episode up with a discussion about the nature of federal land agency employment, which all but requires employees to move locations every 3-5 years to move up in their careers. Jon spoke about how the collaborative/shared stewardship pathway that is needed to meaningfully integrate Indigenous management into Western management requires a wholesale commitment to developing interagency relationships, and how this should be a major priority moving forward. "It's not about going out and managing forests, silvicultural prescription or even forest management," Jon said in our conversation. "It's become all about people management, almost a social science. I think people are starting to realize that. It's a softer approach but it's very real.”This conversation and the rest of our Fire in the Southwest series is supported by the Southwest Fire Science Consortium, as well as the Arizona Wildfire Initiative. We're so grateful for their support! Time stamps: 06:23 - Jon's Background and Navajo Upbringing 09:42 - Northern Arizona University And Its Programs 11:51 - Native American Forest And Rangeland Management Program 13:00 - San Carlos Apache Tribe14:12 - Western Land Management Agencies Working With Tribes 15:38 - Opportunities And Funding Becoming Available To Bolster Tribal Management18:45 - Fire History and Research in the Piñon Juniper Ecosystems of the Southwest20:38 - Indigenous Fire History In Piñon Juniper Ecosystems 22:41 - Culturally Informed Management In Higher Elevation Forests 25:56 - Increasing Acknowledgement Of Cultural Burning 26:33 - Wildland Fire Management And Mitigation Report Directives for Indigenous Burning28:10 - San Carlos Apache Tribe—Wildfire Crisis Strategy Funding Leading to Tribal Management Success Story29:34 - Collaborative Efforts Require Long-Term Commitments and Relationship Building33:50 - Tribal Management Is Inherently Collaborative 34:20 - Jon's Career Wins 37:32 - End 

What is it like to watch vegetation type-conversion in real time? How are invasive grasses changing the ecology of the desert and broader Southwest? What's being done to protect and restore Southwest ponderosa pine forests? This episode with Tonto National Forest fire ecologist Mary Lata dives into the fire regimes of the Southwest, how they're changing by the year, how invasive grasses are influencing those changes, and particularly how she's beginning to see more fire in the Sonoran Desert, which historically did not burn very often. We also spoke about her work within the Four Forest Restoration Project, which aims to restore and protect the significant ponderosa pine forests within the Apache-Sitgreaves, Coconino, Kaibab and Tonto national forests. Mary was preparing for a public meeting the day of our conversation and had a few great slides that she showed me during our conversation, so I've uploaded the full video of our conversation to Youtube for folks who would like some more context for the topics we discussed in the podcast. This episode and our entire series on Fire in the Southwest was made possible with support from The Southwest Fire Science Consortium  and the Arizona Wildfire Initiative.  

Welcome to the first part of our six-episode series all about the Southwest, sponsored by the Southwest Fire Science Consortium!In this episode, which is serving as an introduction to the series, we spoke with Mary Stuever, who is the Chama District Forester for New Mexico State Forestry. Mary has a breadth of experience across disciplines in the fire world, which is well-reflected in our conversation. She's worked in suppression, prevention, fire ecology, community education, post-fire support and public information, among other roles in her long career in fire. As such, we touched on everything from her background in suppression (and subsequent health problems from smoke exposure) to her time providing post-fire community support for the folks in Mora, NM, which was devastated by the 2022 Calf Canyon/Hermits Peak Fire. Mora was not only impacted by the fire itself, but also by subsequent flooding and debris flows that destroyed wells, choked out acequias (critical agricultural waterways) and destroyed untold homes, properties and livelihoods. Mary reflected on the situation she found herself in in such a devastating post-fire environment, including what was needed and opportunities she saw for helping other communities prepare for similar situations. She also gave us a quick Southwest Fire Ecology 101 lesson, and was all around a great guest to chat about the huge diversity of wildfire issues facing the Southwest right now. Most of the topics we spoke to will be elaborated on in greater detail in upcoming episodes, so we hope you'll stick around and listen in as we release more episodes of this series over the next six weeks. For more information on post-fire impacts in Mora, check out some of the fantastic reporting  Patrick Lohmann of Source NM did both during and after the fire.For more information about our sponsor for this series, the Southwest Fire Science Consortium, check out their website, which is chock-full of resources related to Southwest fire ecology, research, management and communications. Timestamps: 08:55 - Role Of Fire In The Landscape10:10 - Health Issues in Wildland Firefighting12:13 - Basing Operational Decisions On Smoke Exposure14:18 - Fire Ecology of the Southwest 10123:22 - Intersecting Cultures And Fire Management in the Southwest25:34 - Ecosystem-Specific Challenges and Different Tactics For Different Landscapes27:51 - Mary's Experience Providing Post-Fire Support In Mora, NM (Following Calf Canyon/Hermits Peak)36:29 - Post-Fire Recommendations For The Southwest40:49 - Utilizing Art And Theater For Fire Education44:03 - Bringing Community Members In As Partners

The long-awaited beaver episode! In this episode, we learn about how beavers are not only champions of wildfire resilience but are also sleeper endurance athletes (climbing mountains to find new watersheds), dedicated anti-capitalists (not giving a **** about the regulatory or material concerns of humans), expert engineers (casually restoring entire watersheds) and pretty handy companions to have in our pursuit of restoring habitat and landscape resilience across the West (and beyond).Dr. Emily Fairfax and Dr. Sophie Gilbert joined us to talk about everything from nature-based climate solutions to why we should learn to better coexist with beavers to that one time Idaho Fish and Game decided to try parachuting beavers into mountain meadows in Idaho. Rest assured there were also a lot of beaver puns.Beaver's role in building fire resilience is probably one of the most requested episode topics we've had since starting the podcast in 2020. We got a pretty solid Beavers and Fire 101, but also had the chance to dig in deeper to talk about areas where beavers have made an impact in protecting structures during wildfires, how Sophie's work at Vibrant Planet is helping to prioritize areas where beavers and nature-based interventions (like beaver dam analogs) could make the biggest difference, as well as what both of their visions are for an idyllic beaver-friendly and more fire-resilient world. Also, be sure to stick around to the end of the episode where we speak about the concept of a "Stewardship Economy," or creating a world that is more supportive of community building and stewardship/restoration work that supports both resilience and community—in other words, the things we really need not only in the wildfire space but also in the broader climate/conservation etc spaces. Here are links to a few of the things mentioned throughout the episode: Beaver, Bison, Horse Book—The Traditional Knowledge and Ecology of the Northern Great PlainsEmily Fairfax's website/research. A fantastic stop-motion rendering of how beaver's change the landscape and build fire resilience (created by Emily!)Vibrant Planet's Land Tender— a multi-faceted planning and monitoring platform for treatment area prioritization, risk mapping and decision making. "Leave It To Beavers," Patagonia's Cleanest Line Blog—Amanda's story about Trout Unlimited and Northwest Youth Corps crews building BDA's in the John Day River watershed.   

Today's episode is a special one. We collaborated with the Montana Media Lab—a program of the University of Montana's School of Journalism—to help support their winter "Youth Voices" workshop, which empowers young rural and Indigenous storytellers to learn more about audio storytelling while sharing stories from their communities. This episode features five stories from high school students in Browning and Florence, Montana, all of which are centered around wildfire's presence in their communities.Story one (timestamp: 6:32) centers on the experiences of volunteer wildland firefighters on the Blackfeet (Niitsitapi) Reservation, as well as on the history of Indigenous burning on Blackfeet Nation ancestral lands.Story two (12:29) is a profile of a student's grandfather, who spoke about his experiences as a Chief Mountain hotshot back in the 70s and 80s.Episode three (16:34) focuses on the experiences of a few modern day members of the Chief Mountain Hotshots.Story four (19:49) highlights how wildfires impact wildlife, and provided an opportunity for students to speak with employees at their reservation's fish and wildlife office.Finally, story five (24:11) shows the unexpected impacts of having an incident command post pop up at your high school during a major wildfire in your area.We owe a huge thank you to the students and teachers who worked hard to make this episode possible, as well as to Mary Auld of the Montana Media Lab, who pitched and coordinated this initiative. This episode was made possible with support from the American Wildfire Experience and Mystery Ranch Backpacks. For updates on the American Wildfire Experience's 2024 Digital Storytelling Micro Grants Program, follow them on Instagram at @wildfire.experience and @thesmokeygeneration.  

In this episode, we had a chance to sit down with author John Vaillant, who recently published a new book about the 2016 Fort McMurray fires in Northern Alberta. The book, Fire Weather: A True Story from a Hotter World, is an in-depth exploration of the fires, which released in June 2023. We not only spoke about his reporting process in the aftermath of a catastrophic wildfire, but we also touched on some of the book's major themes and how these were, in many cases, paralleled by the 2023 fire season in Canada. We even did some deep diving into the oil and gas industry's role in increasingly catastrophic fire seasons, about climate change and how we keep having unprecedented fire seasons—but our processes and protocols aren't catching up with how extreme conditions and fire behavior have become in some cases. We also highly recommend  Fire Weather for those who haven't read it yet. You can pick it up from my favorite local bookstore, Village Books, here. Timestamps: 06:00 - Introduction08:14 - 2016's Alberta Fire Warning of the Future09:42 - John's Thoughts on the 2023 Fire Season12:28 - The Shifting Baseline for Fire Fighting Efforts16:55 - Weather Conditions Affect How Fire Behaves19:26 - People's Humanity Makes Evacuation Efforts Possible23:40 - Humanizing the Evacuation Process25:01 - Interviewing Evacuees28:18 - This Evacuation Changed Everyone's Lives Forever29:34 - The Oil and Gas Industry Connection to Wildfire31:56 - Humans are a Fire Species35:32 - Society's Wealth Comes From Fire37:38 - Gaps in Conversation Surrounding Wildfires40:11 - We Have to Rethink Our Relationship With Fire42:39 - John's Lessons Learned44:12 - Houses Are Made From Petroleum Products46:49 - Firefighting 90s Style Will Not Help Us48:40 - No Precedent for Recent Fire Events51:40 - This Requires a Nuanced Conversation53:45 - Outro

In this episode, we spoke with Dr. Jessica McCarty—the branch chief for the Biospheric Sciences branch at NASA—about her career, her work on fire in boreal and arctic ecosystems (within the context of the Canadian wildfires last summer), her perspectives on fire technology (spoiler: she's a big fan of predictive modeling) and so many other topics that we couldn't possibly list them all here. Here's her NASA bio, which explains her background better than we ever possibly could: Dr. McCarty has more than 15 years' experience in applications of Earth observations and geospatial and data science to accurately quantify wildland and human-caused fire management and emissions, agriculture and food security, climate change impacts and adaptation, and land-cover/land-use change. Quick note that this episode was recorded in August 2023, so there are a few things we spoke about that are maybe not exactly timely right now, but are nonetheless relevant to the ongoing conversation about wildfire resilience (for example, the tragedy in Lahaina and the, at that time, still ongoing fire season in Canada).To learn more about Dr. McCarty's background and research, check out her full NASA bio page. 07:42 - Wildfire and Different Plant Species09:05 - What Satellites Can and Cannot Tell Us10:49 - The Lahaina Tragedy—Response, Fire/Management History on Maui13:41 - Preparing To Deal With Fire and Building Resilience At Scale17:06 - Invest In Being Good Neighbors19:22 - Landscaping Choices as They Relate To Wildfire20:43 - How We Can Thrive With Fire22:41 - Why We Need More Prescribed Fire24:49 - The Energy Grid As A Fire Risk25:44 - New Emergency Notification System/Emergency Management Perspectives27:59 - Agency Scientists Are Underutilized30:12 - Emergency Management/Response and How It Can Save Lives31:45 - Fire: Everybody's Problem, Everybody's Solution33:08 - Fire Regimes in Boreal Forests36:33 - Extreme Fire Year In Canada38:28 -The Realities of Wildfire Evacuations40:25 - The Arctic Council44:43 - Closing

In our second Backbone Scholarship episode—sponsored by Mystery Ranch and the American Wildfire Experience—we chatted with Nez Perce wildland firefighter Riston Bullock, who spoke about his experiences working in fire over the last decade, about the challenges that have come up as he has gotten older and become a father, as well as the challenges of the Nez Perce Reservation to have more authority over their own fire management. Riston also spoke about his experience of seeing a fatality on a wildfire last summer, as well as the processing he's had to do in the aftermath of this incident. As we wrap up this year of Life with Fire, we want to thank Mystery Ranch Backpacks for the ongoing support not only of this podcast, but of storytelling in the wildland fire space more generally. For one stellar example, we cannot recommend their series on Sasha Berleman ("The Fire Poppy") enough. Go check it out if you're looking for something to do in these wierd days between Christmas and New Years.   

Life with Fire Podcast, Mystery Ranch Backpacks and the American Wildfire Experience (AWE) have joined forces to bring you this episode with Junior Lazaro—a wildland firefighter who received a Backbone Scholarship from AWE to share his experiences of fire through the Mystery Ranch Backbone Series and Life with Fire Podcast. Junior is a young wildland firefighter who shared his experiences of working in fire in his third season on a BLM handcrew out of eastern Oregon. In this episode, he spoke to some of his challenges and triumphs in pursuing wildland firefighting, and spoke especially to the role his father had in inspiring him to pursue this job. We appreciate both AWE's and Mystery Ranch's commitment to sharing the experiences of those working on the fireline, especially those from communities often underrepresented in content/media around wildland fire. This episode is the first of two that center the operational experiences of folks whose perspectives are not well represented in wildfire media.  Need a gift for the outdoorsperson in your life? For mountain bikers, day hikers, travelers and festival lovers, I recommend the MR Hip Monkey.  It's almost too spacious—I always end up packing way more in it than I end up needing, but you never know when you're gonna need an extra layer or that second bag of gummy bears. For folks who love a good overnight ski trip, I can't recommend the Gallatin Peak 40 Liter pack enough. I've used this pack for everything from hut trips in the winter to traveling through Europe this fall to backpacking to alpine lakes in the summer. For those who don't have a ton of space to have a bag for every activity in their life, the Gallatin Peak checks multiple boxes and is a wonderfully multipurpose pack that can keep your life simple. Who needs four bags when you really just need this one!?

Well we finally got a chance to speak with Marek Smith, who is the North American Fire Director for the Nature Conservancy and the co-director of the Fire Networks, which houses the Fire Adapted Learning Network, the Prescribed Fire Training Exchange (TREX) and the Fire Learning Networks. Before I get too far into this intro, I do want to note that the Fire Network has a new website that is a veritable clearinghouse of good fire resources, knowledge and anecdotes—I highly recommend you go check it out!New Fire Networks Website!!Marek has quite a background of working in good fire implementation and policy, and recently represented 501 c3 organizations with expertise in forest management and environmental conservation on the Wildfire Commission which released its report and recommendations back in September.In his role with the Nature Conservancy, Marek works to, quite simply, bring fire to the people while leading an organization that prioritizes our collective relationship with fire. All of TNC's programming through the Fire Networks is focused on developing more avenues for people to connect with fire, whether by exchanging knowledge/training,  sharing resources or empowering individuals and communities to build resilience to or change their relationships with fire.We covered some ground with this one—not only about his role in the Wildfire Commission, but also his work with the Fire Networks, Amanda's experience at her first TREX back in October, and the future of the Fire Networks. This was such a fun conversation that was a long time coming, and we were left feeling like we could have talked to Marek for much, much longer than we did! Maybe a part two is in order....Don't forget to check out the Fire Networks' new website!You can also learn more about the new partnership between the Nature Conservancy and the Forest Service here. Looking for Christmas gifts for the outdoorsperson/backpacker/firefighter/hunter/skier in your life? Well boy howdy you should probably check out Mystery Ranch's selection of packs, made for every hobby you could possibly need a pack for.I'm a huge fan of Mystery Ranch packs and am an especially big fan of their Saddle Peak ski pack and their Hip Monkey pack, which is a glorified fanny pack that is durable as hell and has SO MUCH SPACE. I use it for long days on my mountain bike, and also recently used it basically as a purse during a three-week trip backpacking around Italy. Timestamps:03:55 - Episode Introduction05:57 - Process For The Wildfire Commission08:02 - Themes In Marek's Work09:29 - Work Groups Within The Commission 10:02 - Marek's Current Action Items10:52 - Collaborative Approach To Recommendations 12:11 - An All-Society Approach13:02 - Multi-Year Funding13:58 - Community Wildfire Defense Grants15:21 - Wildfire Adaptation PODs17:13 - Focus On What Is In Reach18:14 - Community Level Practitioners19:00 - The Fire Networks Partnership21:24 - The Indigenous Peoples Burning Network22:37 - Proactive Community Building23:47 - Amanda's Experience On TREX24:56 - The PIO Position25:48 - Current Happenings At Nature Conservancy27:21 - Indigenous TREX Experiences28:41 - Women In Prescribed Fire Training30:09 - How To Get Involved31:04 - Ongoing Efforts 

The Wildfire Mitigation and Management Commission, established in 2022 at the behest of Congress following the 2021 Infrastructure Act, recently released a substantial report highlighting recommendations that will shape the future of wildfire policy and action in the US. Fifty commission members were charged with creating the recommendations, one of which was Kelly Martin—who is a founding member of the Grassroots Wildland Firefighter organization and a longtime wildland firefighter. We had the chance to chat with Kelly about the commission, and she was able to provide us a glimpse into the process and efforts behind their whopping 340-page report. We spoke explicitly about how the recommendations relate to wildland firefighters, as well as what Kelly was able to bring to the commission with her extensive background working in wildland fire operations.We're hoping to release a few more episodes about the commission report, which will focus on other recommendations and themes—including community resilience/adaptation, Indigenous burning and scaling up projects that reduce wildfire risk. Stay tuned!Kelly is an outspoke advocate for wildland firefighters through her work at Grassroots Wildland Firefighters, which you should definitely check out if you haven't already. This episode is brought to you by Mystery Ranch, which makes the best fire pack in the business--we will die on this hill! If you're looking for a fire pack (or a backpacking pack, or a briefcase, or a hunting pack, or a...well you get it), then Mystery Ranch is the place to go. You'll probably never have to buy a pack again!

You've probably heard of Traditional Ecological Knowledge (TEK) but how about Traditional Ecological *Practices*?In this episode, we spoke with Dr. Melinda Adams of the N'dee San Carlos Apache Tribe about translating Indigenous knowledge into Indigenous-led action—which means giving Indigenous practitioners the "space, opportunity and action" to see their knowledge systems play out on the landscape. We spoke about a whole lot more than that, though; we heard about Dr. Adams' PhD work at UC-Davis, about her new assistant professor position at the University of Kansas, about "rematriating" fire (bringing  women back into cultural fire decision making) and generally bringing more humility into the use of fire. We also spoke at length about her recent paper titled "Solastalgia to Soliphilia: Cultural Fire, Climate Change, and Indigenous Healing," which she co-authored with Erica Tom and Chairman Ron Goode of the North Fork Mono Tribe (who coined the term "Traditional Ecological Practices").A bit more about Melinda: As a fire scholar, Dr. Adams concentrates on encouraging public participation in prescribed and controlled burns, getting more people fire certified, and placing more Indigenous-led cultural fire to the ground with allies, agencies, and Tribal members— “decolonizing fire” as she describes. She holds a Bachelor of Science from Haskell Indian Nations University (one of thirty-seven tribal colleges located across the United States), her Master of Science from Purdue University, and PhD from the University of California, Davis. Her research focuses on the intersection of ecology, environmental science, environmental policy and Native American studies; through her research and work, she envisions a future where cultural fire is used as a climate adaptation strategy while mitigating the frequency and intensity of catastrophic wildfire.This is an important episode for those interested in Indigenous knowledge, understanding and practice of land stewardship—including the use of fire—but is absolutely essential for anyone who works in an agency or organization that emphasizes the importance of TEK, and especially for those who recognize a need for a different and more humble approach to fire and active stewardship.  Beyond that, if you're looking for an antidote to your climate grief, look no further than this conversation with Melinda. Her energy for the work is incredible, and is bolstered by countless other Indigenous practitioners and allies who envision a more sustainable, Indigenous-led, community-based future of land stewardship and fire use. Timestamps: 07:17 - Introduction09:42 - Fire in Tribe's Cultural Stories10:35 - Soliphilia12:32 - California and Tribal Recognition15:19 - Healing Powers of Cultural Fire17:34 - State Agencies Invited to Cultural Fire Demos18:37 - Wildfires and A Lack of Relationship with the Land21:20 - Community Education23:30 - Generational Protocol and Practices24:46 - Traditional Ecological Practices27:25 - Melinda's Teaching and Her Students' Focus31:50 - The Humble Fire Approach34:12 - Learn Homeland History Where You Burn36:15 - Caring for the Place You Live38:28 - Collaboration with Different Tribes39:31 - Storytelling to Translate Scientific Findings44:02 - Final Thoughts from Melinda 

Isabeau Ottolini is one of the foremost experts on imbuing risk communications with values that are informed by communities themselves. As a PhD candidate on community-based communications at the Open University of Catalonia in Spain, Isabeau spends a significant amount of time thinking about how we can best reach those most at risk of wildfire's impacts, while also allowing those folks to inform how we approach them on this subject.The ways we talk about wildfire are often highly localized—and dependent on a number of factors like community values, history and available resources. However, the things that make for successful risk communication are largely universal, with mutual respect being chief among the elements of successful communication. This is a primary point of Isabeau's: that when we are talking to community members about wildfire or other climate risks, embracing a two-way communication approach (rather than top-down, as she calls it) is essential. In other words, ensuring that you're actually listening to the community you're attempting to communicate with.Isabeau is also a current member of PyroLife, which is a PhD training program that supports students across the globe to pursue cross-disciplinary, wildfire-focused research projects. She recently published a paper called "A toolkit for fostering co-creation and participative community engagement with vulnerable communities at risk," where she expands on many of the topics we cover in this episode—we'd highly recommend giving it a read. Timestamps: 05:36 - Introduction 06:51 - Interest in Wildfires 09:05 - Community Collaboration Over Expert Dictation 10:36 - Community Experience as Starting Point 11:35 - Limitations of Wildfire Communication 15:07 - Spain vs. US Wildfire Management and Communications17:43 - Communication as Top Priority 18:23 - Leveraging Social Media Platforms 19:38 - Tips for the Upcoming Wildfire Season 23:09 - Future of Wildfire Prevention Gaps 24:50 - Complexity of Wildfire Management

We're big fans of the Mt. Adams Resource Stewards here at Life with Fire. You may recall our episode with the organization's Executive Director back in 2022 (episode 28), but we're back today with an episode with MARS' Stewardship Crew Lead, Lucas King, who shared his thoughts on expanding capacity for more burning and fuels reduction from the ground up in Washington State. Lucas and Amanda spoke about expanding capacity for (and acceptance of) local burning in MARS' backyard—primarily through private lands burning and engaging community members through contractual opportunities and the Stewardship Crew itself. They also spoke about the Washington State Certified Burn Manager Program, engaging recreationists in the act of fuel reduction and land stewardship and a number of other topics, as well as what the stewardship crew has been up to this spring and summer. Speaking of expanding capacity for prescribed burning in Washington State—have you heard about the two TREX events taking place in Washington this fall? The Selkirk and Gorge TREX events are accepting applications for a few more days (July 17th is the deadline), so if you're available and interested, be sure to apply asap! 

What can life after wildland firefighting look like? With the issues facing wildland firefighters these days (including but not limited to: abysmal pay, nonexistent benefits and perpetually being let down by elected officials who suggest they might actually do something about it etc) many in this essential but overworked workforce are likely considering that question themselves.After asking himself that question for years, today's guest Luke Mayfield finally got his answer in 2019, when he left his job as a hotshot captain to see what life outside of operational fire was all about. He now works as the fire program director at Mystery Ranch Backpacks, and is still very much involved the fire community—both through his policy work at Grassroots Wildland Firefighters and as an emergency fill-in for hotshot crews for the last four summers. He's also spent some time this spring talking to hotshot crews about mental health and general wellness during the fire season, which are topics that he's well-versed in after 18 years in fire.This episode isn't just for the firefighters out there, though. It's increasingly important that folks outside of the fire community better understand the challenges firefighters are facing, and take advantage of advocacy opportunities at the state and federal level. Much of those opportunities for advocacy, in fact, are rooted in Luke's work with Grassroots Wildland Firefighters.Luke was a founding member of Grassroots back in 2019 after recognizing a need for more lobbying power/legislative presence on the part of the wildland fire community, which had historically been left out of the conversation at the policy level and, thus, often in the media and greater public consciousness. If you're looking for a way to support the wildland firefighters in your life or community, supporting the work of Grassroots is a great place to start.Huge thanks to Luke for coming on the show, and an equally huge thanks to Mystery Ranch Backpacks for supporting Life with Fire over the years. We have a fancy new affiliate link program with MR and thought we'd highlight their man purse (aka Murse), which is like the Bugatti of man-purses: https://bit.ly/42CyyN6 TW:  Mental health challenges and suicidal ideation are discussed briefly in this episode. 

We'll be honest—we've been hoping to talk to Washington State Commissioner of Public Lands Hilary Franz since this podcast's inception. Franz is responsible for the management of over six millions acres of public lands and the state's wildland firefighting workforce, so we were pretty excited to finally have the opportunity to have a conversation with her a few weeks ago. Our conversation ran the gamut from the forest resilience measures she's taken while in office, to the All Hands All Lands approach to fuels reduction, to her vision for a more fire-adapted Washington. Life with Fire is based in Bellingham, WA—an admittedly wet place to host a wildfire podcast—so we also spoke a bit about the changing conditions in the west Cascades and how her office is hoping to bring more wildfire awareness to the westside. You can support the Life with Fire Patreon if you dig what we're doing, or maybe write us a review or follow us on social media (@lifewithfirepod). If you're looking for a new pack (especially a fire pack!), be sure to go check out Mystery Ranch's wide range of fantastic packs for any activity you partake in: https://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tool_type=cl&merchant_id=dd2bb191-351c-479c-9877-7efa128a6335&website_id=d8132395-0578-4694-9ba8-65dc5a6ef74a&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mysteryranch.com%2F

Our 50th episode! In today's episode, we spoke to professional forester Emily Dolhansky about the fire-adapted ecosystems of her home state of New Jersey. Perhaps you've seen some footage of the Jimmy's Waterhole Fire (pretty good fire name tbh) in southern New Jersey—as of this writing, it's sitting at nearly 4,000 acres and 75% containment after exhibiting fire behavior that would be extreme by almost any geographic area's standards.Emily filled us in on the fire ecology and history of the pine barrens, where she spent  as a kid growing up in NJ. Emily wrote her master's thesis at Yale on the pine barrens of the northeast (which exist all over the northeast and midwest—not just NJ) and talked through some of the common misconceptions of Northeast wildfires while providing a good bit of context for all those wild videos we're seeing on social media this week. To learn more about the fire history of the pine barrens, check out this piece that Emily penned while at Yale: https://www.firesciencenorthatlantic.org/post/pine-barrens-of-the-northeastern-u-s-emily-dohlansky-2018Looking for a new pack? Check out Mystery Ranch's stellar selection and let them know we sent you by using this link! https://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=pl&ti=4703&pw=348921&mi=13570&pt=3&pri=603   

As indicated by the title of this episode, we covered some SERIOUS ground in our conversation with Dr. Natasha Stavros, Director of the Earth Lab at CU Boulder. Natasha's background in the academic realm combined with personal experiences with wildfire (being evacuated from one of California's first megafires back in the early 2000s, and most recently seeing the impacts of the Marshall Fire on the Boulder community) gives her a strong understanding of fire from both the academic and the community/human perspective. As such, our conversation touched on everything from how the right technology can help build fire resilience if paired with strong policy, the impacts of smoke on vulnerable populations and her own reckoning with the psychological impacts and trauma of wildfire.Learn more about Natasha and the work she is doing at the Earth Lab: https://earthlab.colorado.edu/our-team/natasha-stavrosContribute to the work we're doing here at Life with Fire by becoming a patron!  Need a pack? Our sponsor Mystery Ranch probably has something for ya, whether you're looking for a backpacking setup for the summer or new fire packs for your crew. Check out their selection here: https://bit.ly/410LZ85

In our second episode with Oregon Prescribed Fire Council found Amanda Rau, we discuss how she has connected the dots between her philosophy degree and her fire career, what other agencies and jobs she is interested in pursuing, the Oregon Certified Burn Manager Course and her vision for getting fire in the hands of more people in Oregon and beyond. Learn more about the Oregon Prescribed Fire Council: https://www.oregonrxfire.org/This episode is sponsored by Mystery Ranch Backpacks. Whether you need the toughest load-bearing backpack on the market or a bag for your laptop, Mystery Ranch has what you're looking for. Check out their fire packs (specifically their women's fire packs!) here: https://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=pl&ti=4703&pw=348921&mi=13570&pt=3&pri=603 

This week's guest Amanda Rau has worked for nearly every fire-adjacent agency or organization that exists in the state of Oregon. From the Forest Service to a contract crew to the Nature Conservancy and a current role with the Oregon Department of Lands, Amanda has had a hand in just about every side of the Oregon fire world that you can get.Naturally, that means she has a lot of fantastic perspective on what she has gleaned from each job, as well as the lessons she's brought from the suppression world to her work as a prescribed fire advocate and current chair of the Oregon Prescribed Fire Council.This conversation was recorded back in September in Eugene, Oregon, as fire crews prepped to burn a unit nearby. This conversation is also broken up into two parts—part two will be released next week.  

Hello again! After a hefty mid-winter break, Life with Fire is back with our first episode of 2023. This episode was recorded from the road last fall, with guest Christopher Adlam. Chris is the regional fire specialist for the Southwest Oregon region of Oregon State's Fire Extension, and had some great insights on community and individual fire resilience, OSU's fire extension programming and, finally, how we can better communicate with communities about both prescribed and managed fire. We chatted next to an old burn unit above Ashland, Oregon, in a popular recreation area—this being the case, the audio in this episode has a little more character than normal, thanks to wind, birds and mountain bikers. We also had a short visit from a local hiker, who shared some of his own thoughts on fire use in the area, smoke impacts of prescribed fire units and his perceptions of wildfire risk in Ashland. It was a fun side conversation and a great example of how engaged community members are in what's happening on the land in their backyards.  To learn more about the OSU Fire Extension and stay up to date on its workshops, webinars and other programming, check out its website or Twitter.To support Life with Fire, check out our Patreon.  

In our third and final episode from the International Association of Wildland Fire conference in Edmonton, Alberta, we spoke with FireSmart program manager Magda Zachara about Firesmart's objective to build scalable wildfire prevention and mitigation programming across Canada. Magda spoke about Firesmart's programming and the ways they've build more engagement with communities that want to improve fire resilience and home hardening. To learn more about Firesmart Canada, check out their website. Click here to donate to our Patreon—for a limited time, those who donate at the $20 level this month will receive a Life with Fire Calendar! 

You've probably heard of the Land Back movement, but an essential ingredient of Land Back initiatives will also be  Fire Back—that is, returning land stewardship and burning authority to First Nations and Indigenous communities across North America and the world. We've spoken to a few guests who have highlighted the importance of Indigenous authority in land management in the past, but today we've got a whole episode on how that authority can actually be achieved at the community level and how these practices are informed by traditional Indigenous values and land management objectives. While at the IAWF conference in Alberta last week, we had the opportunity to speak with Francis Johnson, who is the Forest Manager for Alkali Resource Management LLC—a First-Nations-owned land management company that manages a community forest in Alkali Lake, British Columbia. Francis, who is a member of the Secwepemc (Shuswap) First Nations Community, gave us some wonderful insights into how the oral histories of his band continue to inform land management activities on the community forest. We also spoke about the band's collaborations with agencies like the BC Wildfire Service, and the reconciliations that needed to happen to make those relationships both possible and productive.To learn more about the work that Francis and Alkalive Resource Management do, check out the company's website: http://www.armltd.org/To learn more about the oral histories and land management objectives of the Secwepemc Nation, check out this presentation from Francis that was featured by the BC Community Forest Association: https://bccfa.ca/cfa-wildfire-workshop-2019-presentation-francis-johnson/  

We're in Canada at the International Association of Wildland Fire Conference this week, and will be pulling some folks aside for some quick conversations about the conference themes and the research being presented and discussed. Our first "rapid fire" episode guest is Sarah Henderson, who works for the BC Centre for Disease Control as the scientific director of Environmental Health Services. Sarah has some fascinating insights into our perceptions of wildfire smoke, some common paradoxes that come up in the ways we talk and think about smoke, as well as some legitimate, scalable solutions for reducing the impacts of wildfire smoke, especially on susceptible populations like those experiencing homelessness, those who don't have the financial means of improving indoor air quality and those with preexisting health conditions that make them particularly vulnerable to smoke's impacts. Thanks to Sarah for taking a moment to chat with us, and hopefully this conversation provides some useful context for those who felt the effects of smoke this summer and fall. 

In our final episode sponsored by Protect Our Winters, we explored the economics of wildfire (both it's suppression and it's community and recreational impacts) with Jude Bayham, an environmental and resource economist at Colorado State University.Jude told us about some of his upcoming research, which he's hoping will utilize Strava data to determine where people continue to recreate in the aftermath of wildfires, in addition to lots of other cool stuff he has in the works. We also explored the proliferation of Lyme disease as a result of fire exclusion, a problem that is most pronounced in the Northeast, and how that's inordinately impacting the outdoor community in certain regions.  Learn more about Jude's breadth of wildfire and economics research here. You can learn more our sponsor, Protect our Winters, and their Stoke the Vote campaign—which encourages the outdoor community to do their research, register to vote and make their voices heard ahead of this fall's midterms. Learn more about the campaign and POW's other work here. To support Life with Fire, follow us on Instagram and  Twitter; you can also support us/help pay the bills (and our host's burgeoning addiction to iced lattes) by donating to our Patreon. Song featured in POW ad: The Times They Are A Changin' by Goth Babe 

In the fourth episode of our series sponsored by Protect our Winters, we spoke with self-proclaimed snow nerd Andrew Schwartz about his work as the lead scientist at the the UC Berkeley Central Sierra Snow Lab, where he explores all sorts of snowpack-related science but also how wildfires are impacting that snowpack. From less canopy to protect the snow from the sun to ash on the snow attracting more solar energy, Andrew talks us through all the ways that our snowpack and glaciers will continue to be impacted by wildfires that are increasing in size and creeping further into the alpine. To see more of what Andrew's doing, give him and the Snow Lab a follow on Twitter. Learn more about Protect our Winters and their Stoke the Vote campaign at their website. Support Life with Fire by donating to our Patreon! We'll send you some swag for your troubles, and really appreciate the support. Music featured in POW Ad: The Times They Are A Changin' by Goth Babe. 

In a special bonus episode of our recreation X wildfire series sponsored by Protect Our Winters, we spoke with professional skier Cody Townsend about what it's like to live in North Lake Tahoe as the threat of wildfire (or smoke) in that area seems to increase exponentially every fire season, as well as what kind of advocacy work he suggests for listeners who don't know where to get started in the climate or advocacy space. And we know what you might be thinking right now: A professional skier? On a wildfire podcast?You betcha, and for good reason—Cody hasn't just been an outspoken advocate for better climate policy and the politicians that support them, but has also experienced the community impacts of wildfire first hand, whether through air quality, forest and trail closures, figuring out what to put his family's go-bags or otherwise living with the near constant threat of wildfire and smoke. His experiences likely mirror those of many folks in California and beyond, and are particularly pertinent now as the Mosquito Fire continues to burn intensely—blanketing much of the Tahoe and Reno areas in dense smoke.   You can learn more our sponsor, Protect our Winters, and their Stoke the Vote campaign—which encourages the outdoor community to do their research, register to vote and make their voices heard ahead of this fall's midterms. Learn more about the campaign and POW's other work here. To support Life with Fire, follow us on Instagram and  Twitter; you can also support us/help pay the bills (and our host's burgeoning addiction to iced lattes) by donating to our Patreon. Song featured in POW ad: The Times They Are A Changin' by Goth Babe

Today we're talking trails! What do trails have to do with wildfire, you ask? Well, ask any trail builder that question and they'll tell you that they're kind of a pain to rebuild (and cut out) after wildfires. Today's guest Dillon Osleger is a trail builder, an environmental advocate, scientist and Executive Director of the Sage Trail Alliance, and also works with Protect Our Winters as both a creative and an athlete. He's done a fair bit of both trail building and trail rehab in the aftermath of wildfires, and has some great perspectives on how folks who like to use trails can become more engaged in keeping those trails looking good both before and after wildfire impacts. To see what Dillon's been up to, check out his website as well as a recent film he worked on about the impacts of drought, beetle kill and wildfire on trails in southwest Colorado. To learn more about Protect our Winters, the sponsor of our wildfire and recreation series, and their Stoke the Vote campaign, check out their website. Music featured in the POW ad by Goth Babe. To support Life with Fire, check out our Patreon.

Welcome to the first episode of our four-part series discussing the impacts of wildfire on recreation, sponsored by Protect Our Winters! For this episode, Jamie Ervin of the Outdoor Alliance walked us through the myriad ways that wildfires create barriers to recreation access and enjoying the outdoors. From air quality impacts to forest closures, Jamie talks about what recreationists can continue to expect from worsening wildfire seasons, while also talking about why it's important to remember fire's place in many of the landscapes we all love to recreate in. Jamie has a background in wildfire policy and currently works as a policy associate for the Outdoor Alliance—making him a perfect guest guide us through the growing relevance of how wildfires will continue to impact recreation and public lands access, as well as what we can do about it.  Protect our Winters is a climate advocacy organization that engages the outdoor community in on-the-ground and legislative climate action. We encourage you to check out their website, where you can pledge to vote in the upcoming midterm elections, learn more about what they do as well as how to support them.  You can learn more about the Outdoor Alliance here.If you're feeling extra benevolent today, consider becoming a Patron and donating to the Life with Fire Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lifewithfirepod 

Have you seen that C̶o̶l̶l̶e̶g̶e̶ Hotshot shirt from Hotshot Brewery (you can look at it here if you're unfamiliar)? This episode's guest Harrison Raine walks us through doing both of those things at once—and shares why he thinks more firefighters should pursue fire-adjacent degrees and careers that can make use of that invaluable, on-the-ground fire experience. During his undergrad, Harrison scored a fellowship that allowed him to travel the world to explore fire management practices in places like South Africa, Greece and Australia, among others. The result of that work (which can be found here) provided a profound framework for his continued work in academia, which has largely been funded by his work as a wildland firefighter through the summers. Harrison encourages firefighters to lean in to the unique experiences they've had if they leave fire, especially as so many agencies, organizations and businesses are trying to find solutions in the wildfire space. We also spoke about his fellowship experiences, as well as what he is researching as a grad student at UC Berkeley, working primarily in the wildland urban interface realm. A few things that Harrison mentioned that we wanted to link to: The Mountain Legacy ProjectThe Pau Costa Foundation As always, we owe a massive thanks to MYSTERY RANCH for sponsoring this episode of Life with Fire, as well as a number of previous episodes. MYSTERY RANCH is proud to be the first pack company to provide women's specific harnessing in their HOTSHOT Line as well as their HOT SPEED pack in our engine/IA category. To see their entire line of fire packs—including their women's packs and packs for international firefighters who don't use fire shelters—check out their website here. Finally, if you'd like to support Life with Fire with a monthly donation, please check out our Patreon for tier options—Patrons who donate at the $7 tier and above will get some Life with Fire and Mystery Ranch swag! 

Listen—we know that prescribed fire liability insurance is a big, scary topic. But we encourage you to check out this episode, because while liability insurance is one of the bigger challenges in getting more "good fire" on the ground, it's also one of the least understood and more infrequently talked about challenges, likely because it is such a complex topic. With that in mind, learning more about those challenges and how people are working to solve them is critical to having a full understanding of prescribed fire and its usage (or lack thereof).Thankfully, our guest this week—Daniel Godwin of the Ember Alliance—agreed to guide us on this journey into all the behind-the-scenes liability and insurance business that needs to happen before any driptorches are lit. Daniel—who is the director of programs and partnerships at the Ember Alliance in Colorado—brings an obvious passion and long-honed wit to how he talks about wildfire, and our conversation covered the gamut from how these policies affect our current fire reality, why they're impacting prescribed fire initiatives and what is being done to make it better.If you're more the reading type, Daniel just published a piece over on the Ember Alliance's blog about this same topic. You can check it out here. 

How can First Nation and Indigenous communities regain power over their long-honed land stewardship and cultural burning practices? How can these practices be done without the influence of Westernized practices, which includes prescribed burning?Today's guest Amy Cardinal Christianson, a Métis woman and Fire Social Scientist for the Canadian Forest Service, addressed these questions (and so, so many others) for us in today's episode. On top of advocating for greater authority for First Nation communities over their ancestral lands, Amy also has an extensive background in researching the connection between First Nation communities and wildfire. Her most recent research centers heavily on wildfire evacuations in First Nations communities in Canada; various overlapping factors (like remote locations and a lack of emergency response infrastructure) often result in disproportionate wildfire impacts to First Nations communities.We owe a huge thank you to Amy for coming on the show to share her perspective; it was a privilege to learn about the work she's involved in, as well as how First Nations communities continue to reestablish control over their homelands—while touching on some of the roadblocks she's experienced along the way. To hear more from Amy, you can check out her absolutely stellar podcast, "Good Fire," here: https://yourforestpodcast.com/good-fire-podcastFinally, this episode is sponsored by Mystery Ranch Backpacks, which recently came out with women's-specific sizing on their fire packs (!!!) which we are inordinately excited about. Whether you need something that can keep up on day after day of digging line or a bomber duffel bag for weekend trips, you can rest assured that Mystery Ranch packs come ready to be used hard and put away wet, no matter what. You can dig around on their website here: https://www.mysteryranch.com/womens-hotshot-tl-wildland-fire-pack

Triss Seemiller is a trans woman who started gender-affirming hormone therapy when she was on a shot crew in California. She transitioned soon after she left the crew. She has occasionally felt uneasy about sharing her identity with coworkers since transitioning, and in this episodes walks us through her breadth of experiences on different crews to talk about situations where she felt most empowered and comfortable being herself, as well as the situations that made her question her desire to stick with fire as a career. Through it all, she provides some incredible perspective on what it's like to navigate modern fire culture as a trans woman, and offers some suggestions for folks who want to build a more inclusive culture on their own crews and districts. This episode is sponsored by #ForestProud—a community of land stewards focused on keeping forests as forests while fighting for forest climate solutions in the era of climate change. They serve to "connect the dots" between organizations, initiatives, those interested in joining the forest sector and those already involved. To check out some of their great content, follow them on Instagram and Twitter at @forestproud. To become a member, learn more about them or donate, check out their website: https://forestproud.org/. 

Bobbie Scopa has had quite a long and storied fire career—she recently retired after 45 years working in both wildland and municipal fire, during which she worked her way into the Chief position and into numerous leadership positions over her career with the Forest Service. Notably, she was present on the Dude Fire in 1990, where six firefighters were tragically killed, and even served at Ground Zero after 9/11.But Bobbie's story doesn't start and end with firefighting. She's also a trans woman, and has experienced the fire world as both a man and woman, having transitioned to female between fire seasons in the late 1980s. This gives Bobbie an exceedingly rare perspective on gender dynamics on the fireline—perspectives that she now shares widely through her podcast, Bobbie on Fire, as well as her new book, Both Sides of the Fireline, which is available for pre-order and will be released this fall. Through it all, Bobbie maintains an incredible ability to tell stories that serve not only as valuable lessons learned, but often as funny and relatable anecdotes for anyone who has worked in fire—and especially for those who are underrepresented in the fire space. To hear more of Bobbie's stories, check out her podcast and website. To pre-order Bobbie's book, find it on Barnes and Noble  or through our host's favorite local bookstore, Village Books in Fairhaven, WA. For more information on our newest sponsor, #ForestProud, check out their website. To support Life with Fire, check out our Patreon. 

In the second half of our conversation with Jane Park, we spoke about some of the diversity initiatives that Jane has spearheaded within Banff National Park and Parks Canada as a whole. We also spoke about Jane's experiences of working in fire as a Korean-Canadian woman and type 1 incident commander, and why she thinks it's imperative to bring more people of color and women into the wildfire and prescribed fire spaces. Be sure to check out our first episode with Jane, which covers prescribed fire and fire management in Banff National Park! Mystery Ranch's new women's-specific fire packs: https://www.mysteryranch.com/Packs/Fire/NewLife with Fire Patreon: www.patreon.com/lifewithfirepod 

In our second episode of the Women in Wildfire series, we brought on Banff National Park Fire and Vegetation Management Specialist Jane Park, who on top of being a profound presence in the wildfire and prescribed fire management space is also, quite simply, really frickin cool (and very fun to chat with). Jane is a Korean-Canadian woman and a type one incident commander; she has also played a huge role in building more diversity within the Canada Parks system, and has notable on-the-ground achievements in bringing more progressive fire management to Banff National Park. We broke this conversation up in to two parts, with the first focusing on fire ecology/regimes in and around Banff, as well as some of the prescribed fire initiatives Jane has led in the park (and a whole lot more).Stay tuned for the second half of our conversation with Jane, which will be published later next week. We also want to give a big shout out to our new sponsor, Mystery Ranch Backpacks. To browse their seemingly endless catalog of backpacks for any activity you can think of, check out their website: www.mysteryranch.comTo see Mystery Ranch's new women-specific fire packs (!!), check out https://www.mysteryranch.com/Packs/Fire/New.  To donate to Life with Fire, check out our Patreon—patrons who donate at the $15 level and up will recieve a Mystery Ranch swag pack, while those who donate at $20 and up will get a Life with Fire calendar: www.patreon.com/lifewithfirepod

There's a chance you've seen Nez Perce wildland firefighter and model Celilo Miles in a recent advertisement for Victoria's Secret—in it, she wears Nomex pants and holds her hard hat, emblazoned with the Nez Perce Tribe's fire management program logo. After seeing the ad making the rounds in the wildland fire community, we tracked Celilo down to chat about her background as both a wildland firefighter and a model and how her appearance in the VS advertisement came about. She spoke about balancing modeling and fire, and what each vocation has taught her about the other. We also spoke about the dynamic of being a woman in fire, during which she provided some suggestions for other woman who are interested in fire or are just getting started.This episode is the first in our series on women in wildfire, which will run until early May. Celilo in Vogue Magazine: https://www.vogue.com/slideshow/victorias-secret-love-cloud-launch-celilo-miles-interviewLife with Fire Patreon: www.patreon.com/lifewithfirepodLife with Fire website: www.lifewithfirepodcast.comLife with Fire email: lifewithfirepod@gmail.com

The Mt. Adams Resource Stewards in Washington State is an excellent example of a hyper-local solution to community fire resilience. Started in 2004 by this week's guest, Jay McLaughlin, the organization now boasts a community forest, a 10-person stewardship crew, community development programs and fire adaptation resources for nearby communities.Jay has a deep pool of experience in engaging rural (often former logging) communities in fire resilience and more progressive land management; in today's episode, we speak about the challenges of an organization like this, but also the myriad ways this work has been immensely rewarding for Jay and others in the community. He also offers some suggestions and bits of advice for others who hope to develop similar organizations in their own communities.More information on the Mt. Adams Resource Stewards: https://mtadamsstewards.org/Deer Humans Podcast Link: https://player.fm/series/deer-humansLife with Fire website: www.lifewithfirepodcast.comLife with Fire Patreon: www.patreon.com/lifewithfirepodTime stamps:5:48 — Mt. Adams Resource Stewards background/creation; fuels program development8:56 — Working forest creation and introduction of stewardship crew15:00 — Is this type of organization scalable across other Western communities?17:35 — Earning buy-in from resource-dependent communities; outreach insights in rural communities, hearing out detractors20:14 — Original inspiration for starting the organization22:09 — Funding sources.24:20 — Building connections in resource-dependent areas25:41 — Suggestions for other organizers interested in creating a community forest

In the second half of their conversation, Michael Wara and Amanda briefly dive into the nitty gritty of liability regimes as they relate to both wildland and prescribed fires, how smoke will continue to impact communities across the West and finally, how the current suppression workforce structure is not a practical means of moving into a more fire-adapted future.Of course, a suppression workforce will always be important, but Michael considers the abysmal work-life balance of the current wildland fire suppression structure and how that contributes to low retention of skilled employees. Eventually this brings him to consider how women are pushed out of the suppression/operational fire world by way of wanting a family or children, and how this has long-standing implications for the sustainability of the workforce and its objectives.Life with Fire Patreon: www.patreon.com/lifewithfireLife with Fire Website: www.lifewithfirepodcast.comNotes:3:15—Wildfire liability/responsibility regimes8:45—Air quality impacts on communities12:30—Prescribed fire liabilities, California's "claims fund"21:55—Sustainability of suppression workforce; retention and having a family; the engrained misogyny of wildland firefighter work-life balance23:30—Could community fire stewards be the future of sustainable employment in the wildfire/prescribed fire spaces?26:55—The desperate need to build a bigger, skilled workforce to meet our management objectives

President Biden recently rolled out a plan to treat 50 million acres of land with fire over the next 10 years. The question is—is 50 million acres actually realistic with the system we have in place right now? We spoke with environmental law and policy expert Michael Wara about the logistics of actually putting that much fire on the ground to reduce risk in vulnerable communities, how we may not be in a place to scale it to that level yet, and what we can do to get to the necessary level of fuels reduction and fire resilience. We also talked a bit about Michael's job as the Director of the Climate and Energy Policy Program at Stanford, and what he and his students are doing in the environmental and wildland fire spaces to help fire practitioners and build fire resilience into law and policy. This is our episode one of two with Michael, with the next publishing in two weeks. Timestamps:7:55 — Wildfire risk to utilities.15:30 — Biden's plan to burn 50 million acres in 10 years.21:35 — Limitations of Forest Service resources in achieving those acreage goals.26:00 — Thinking radically about the future of fire policy.

When smokejumper Tim Hart passed away from injuries sustained during a hard landing in New Mexico in May, his wife Michelle Hart quickly realized that she needed a way to channel her grief into something tangible. She realized she was in a unique position to draw attention to the needs of wildland firefighters—she had a personal connection to the issues facing them, and as a lobbyist, she also had the legislative chops to make legitimate change at a congressional level. This all culminated in the creation of the Tim Hart Wildland Firefighter Classification and Pay Parity Act, which addresses firefighter compensation, benefits, access to mental health resources and availability of housing for firefighters, among other provisions. We spoke with Michelle about the bill and the grief that influenced its creation back in November. They've continued garnering support for the bill, though not much as changed with the bill since when we chatted with Michelle. As of January 19, the bill has been referred to the subcommittee on Conservation and Forestry, where it awaits support from the senate.