Podcast appearances and mentions of bill hale

Advent devotions from our members who share about the ways they have experienced the light, and hope, and meaning of God's magnificent gift. Today's devotion is given by Bill Hale. 

A new MP3 sermon from First Baptist Church of Parker Texas is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: The God of all Comfort Subtitle: Study in 2 Corinthians Speaker: Bill Hale Broadcaster: First Baptist Church of Parker Texas Event: Sunday Service Date: 4/7/2024 Bible: 2 Corinthians 1 Length: 45 min.

A new MP3 sermon from First Baptist Church of Parker Texas is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: Preach the True Word Speaker: Bill Hale Broadcaster: First Baptist Church of Parker Texas Event: Sunday Service Date: 3/10/2024 Bible: 2 Timothy 4 Length: 41 min.

A new MP3 sermon from First Baptist Church of Parker Texas is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: The Wicked Prospering Speaker: Bill Hale Broadcaster: First Baptist Church of Parker Texas Event: Sunday School Date: 2/4/2024 Bible: Job 21 Length: 31 min.

A new MP3 sermon from First Baptist Church of Parker Texas is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: Why Do You Call me "Lord, Lord?" Speaker: Bill Hale Broadcaster: First Baptist Church of Parker Texas Event: Sunday Afternoon Date: 1/28/2024 Bible: Matthew 7 Length: 27 min.

This week on Fabulous Film and Friends with the glow of our 75th episodeebbing, it's time to pick up the empty champagne bottles, sweep the floor and go back to discussing one measly film, o' but what a film it is: 2023's Killers of the Flower Moon, directed by the legendary Martin Scorsese and starring Leonardo DiCaprio, Robert DeNiro, Lily Gladstone, Jesse Plemons, John Lithgow, Brendan Fraser, and a veritable host of craggy-faced old coots on the white end, and on the Native American end, a who's who of Oklahoma and Montana actors who either got their big break from doing Community Theater or who have never acted in a major feature film before, including the Oscar nominated Lily Gladstone, who, like myself, got her start acting in Montana's Missoula Children's Theater. Who knows? It may have been my heralded performance as the Narrator in Jack in The Beanstalk or my talents at hawking sweatshirts after the big show that gave a young Lily Gladstone the acting bug.  My guests this week are a full sweat lodge of opinionated tribal elders, I'm talking Roseanne Caputi, Alex Robertson and not one but  two celebrated authors returning to the program, George Young and David Johnson, DMD Okay before we get into all-out movie war the synopsis:Based on true accounts of Osage Nation member who were murdered after oil was discovered on Oklahoma tribal land in the 1920's. The tribal members had retained mineral rights on their reservation, but Bill Hale, a corrupt local, schemes with his dull-witted and greedy nephews Byron and Ernest Burkhart to steal the tribal members' wealth. 

A new MP3 sermon from First Baptist Church of Parker Texas is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: The Importance of Righteous Discipline Speaker: Bill Hale Broadcaster: First Baptist Church of Parker Texas Event: Sunday Service Date: 12/9/2023 Length: 37 min.

The latest episode of Late Edition: Crime Beat Chronicles is in partnership with the Tulsa World to introduce the story of the Osage Reign of Terror and the feature film Killers of the Flower Moon. In this episode, show producer Ambre Moton is joined by two writers from the Tulsa World, Randy Krehbiel and Jimmie Tramel to discuss the film Killers of the Flower Moon as well as the film and the Reign of Terror's places in pop culture. More coverage Read all of the coverage of the film Killers of the Flower Moon and related stories here. All episodes from this series can be found here. Also, for more on the movie, listen to the latest episode of Streamed & Screened: Martin Scorsese's 'Killers of the Flower Moon' might be the best film you see this year. Episode transcript Note: The following transcript was created by Slack and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically: Welcome to Late Edition Crime Beat Chronicles, a Lee Enterprises Podcast. I'm Ambre Moton, the producer and editor of the show, filling in for Nat Cardona who's taking some well-deserved time off.  If you haven't listened to the first three episodes and our latest series about the Osage reign of terror, please go back and listen to those before starting this one. So far, we've talked about the history of the Osage tribe and how they ended up in what became the state of Oklahoma, their oil rich land, and how those rights to that land led to the horrible series of suspicious deaths. Kidnapings and the general environment of fear that made up the reign of terror. We've talked about the blue eyes, investigation and eventual conviction of those who are found guilty of the crimes. In this episode, we talk about the place in history and in pop culture that the reign of terror holds. This episode was recorded prior to the release of the film The Killers of the Flower Moon. Those age reign of terror may not have a prominent spot in the United States history curriculum, but it has established its place in popular culture with multiple books, plays, radio shows, films and more created about the events that went on during the 1920s. Most recently, the film Killers of the Flower Moon, based on a book by David Grann, was released on October 20th, 2023. Martin Scorsese directed and Leonardo DiCaprio and Lily Gladstone star in the film. The Tulsa World's pop culture reporter Jimmy Trammell and I talked about the place the reign of terror holds in pop culture, and a little more about the film. Why should people go see the movie, especially our true crime fans? I can't think of a reason that they should not go to see the movie. It's one of the. From a true crime standpoint, it's one of the biggest crimes in our nation's history that really has not been expounded on. It's crazy. This happened 100 years ago. And as far as us knowing about it, as far as the story being fleshed out, that it never really came to light nationally at all until David Grann's fantastic book became a bestseller. And then and then Scorsese's movie is going to take it to the next level. And I should tell you that initially the movie was going to be, here comes the FBI to solve these murders. And then Scorsese. DiCaprio I think that huddled and decided to pivot. And now this movie is not going to be strictly about FBI coming in. It's going to be. It's going to be wrapped around the marriage of DiCaprio's character and Lily Gladstone's character. It's going to focus on this very personal story. And by the way, we're going to wrap it in to the Osage reign of terror, which I think is a fantastic way of going about it in a personal story is always going to resonate more than a story of another kind. Completely agree that everyone is giving Martin Scorsese, the director, props 100% because he didn't just come in and say, I have adopted this book. We're going to make a movie at every step along the way. He has incorporated and involved and consulted the Osage people were I mean, it's their story. They were impacted. They should have a say in this. And so their language, their costumes, everything about their way of life is portrayed authentically in this film. It's not an outsider coming in and saying, to heck with that. We'll do it my way. You're going to see it portrayed legitimately. You did profile Julie O'Keefe, who was a wardrobe consultant on the film. Can you tell us a little bit about her, her background and why she was important to the portrayal of the Osage as in the movie? Julie O'Keefe, who has had some costume shops, but her resumé is far more extensive than having a costume shop. She was enlisted to be a costume designer, an Osage costume consultant on the film. And so they used pictures from back in the day. Other reference to really make sure the people you see in the film dressed in the way they were, you know, in the 1920s, 100 years ago. And that's another example of Martin Scorsese and his team just taking every measure possible to make sure the Osage, what you see on the screen, is authentic. I mean, he Martin Scorsese, he even said, well, I'm sorry. I was standing there with the Osage who said at the premiere in France that some of the actors on the screen are speaking Osage as well as some of the Osage Nation members. I love that we've come so far from having Italian actors playing natives to respecting the history, the people and the living history that's going on. And yeah, Chief Strongbow, the Native American wrestler, was an Italian word. So what you're talking about. Exactly. I mean, I can turn on any Western on TV in the next room and see Mr. Spock playing a Native American. I love Leonard Nimoy, but he's not a Native American. So we we love. Yes. That people of a certain ethnicity are playing those people in pop culture. No better example of this than Reservation Dogs, the television series that wrapped up a three year run and was shot in Oklahoma as well. I grew up in small town Oklahoma and primarily a Cherokee community, and the people I see, the people I saw in reservation dogs. I look at them and think, I grew up exactly with these people. Especially with everything else going on in the world. It's just great to see the respect to culture being given. Well, typically, how the Native Americans have been portrayed and in movie and TV is John Wayne is shooting at them and that's it. I mean, I I've had I have many native friends, but I had one native friend tell me like, hey, when I was young, I would watch Cowboy and Indian movies and root for the Cowboys. How crazy is that? And he's native because, you know, that's the story being told and and you buy in. But I mean, it's so important now that we can see the Native American not as a stereotype, but just as as a human being, as someone who you don't have to tell a native story per se. You can tell a human being story. And by the way, they happen to be native. I know you talked about it a little bit, but what kind of reactions have you heard or seen from Julie and the other Osages. They had an Osage Nation premiere in Tulsa for only the Osage and people who took part in the film And kind of a takeaway was very powerful, very emotional. Glad to see this story being brought to light. But also it's a lot to wrap your head around because if you were in the movie and that premiere in Tulsa, you're probably sitting with people whose grandmother grandfather died as a result of these murders. So it's a lot to process, a lot to wrap your head around. Did anybody express any discomfort about participating in the movie? I mean, you mentioned that some of the people who were there, they might have had grandparents who were, you know, their lives were taken because of all of this. Were there people who might have been reticent at first to participate? Well, because of history, you couldn't blame anyone for being a little tread cautiously. But I think Martin Scorsese, he got rid of all that wariness early on because he met with the Osage. Is right away before they started filming and made it clear that the Osage people would be treated respectfully. I think this movie is going to create a lot of opportunity for the Osage, and as other films go out forward, we've seen, you know, Native Representation and the Great Prey Predator movie last year. Many of the people who were extras or worked on Killers of the Flower Moon now have an opportunity to go on and work on some other things. Oklahoma has a pretty rich film history, you know, you wouldn't think. But they do. Like The Outsiders was filmed here in 82 that launched the careers of Matt Dillon, Patrick Swayze and Rob Lowe. Tom Cruise, he told me, Tell Ralph, Marty, Mojo, all those guys. And in fact, the exact county where killers of the Flower Moon was filmed was where August Osage County was filmed ten years ago. But by far, this figures to be the biggest blockbuster film ever shot on Oklahoma soil. And I think everyone is just happy that instead of going to California and on some down soundstage, Martin Scorsese brought those actors to where everything occurred. So it could be as true to life as possible. We have to take a quick break, so don't go too far. And of course, I caught up with Randy Krehbiel about the film, why people should see it, and how the reign of terror had something in common with another major criminal event that took place in the same area and at the same time period, as I understand it, Martin Scorsese, he shot the film in Osage County. I think the majority of it was shot there. A little bit of it was shot here in Tulsa. In fact, catty corner from our office at the federal courthouse. And I think they shot some in Guthrie, which is a town over north of Oklahoma City and maybe a few other places. But most of it was shot there. And from everything we've heard from the Osage, is he really made an effort? Leonardo DiCaprio made an effort to be very authentic with it in terms of the the people, the language. My understanding is, is that the actors, the main actors all learned some Osage so they could deliver lines in Osage. So my understanding is, is that, you know, it's about betrayal. The movie the movie is about betrayal. And I think betrayal is asked is almost always support a crime. You're betraying someone in some way. And and it's about how, you know, it focuses I think a lot on this one couple and and in in the birchard he's played by Leonardo DiCaprio his struggle with you know apparently he really did care for his wife but he was also he also was kind of under the influence of this uncle who only cared about money and had been taught, you know, to think only about money. And also that, you know, Indian people were not really they didn't really count. Right. Right. And that and I think, you know, and that also often plays into crime. But I think there's a lot psychologically that people who are interested in crime would would find insightful. I think it's a good way for us to start exploring the history that we aren't all taught. Sure, it might be Leo's face up there, but I know there are tons of times where I've gone to see movies that are based on true stories. And then I start Googling and I start reading. And, you know, you kind of fall down that rabbit hole. Well, you hope so. And, you know, it's. I mean, history is almost always more complicated than you can sit. And this is is a very long movie. Apparently, it's I'm told it's three and a half hours long that. Scorsese. But even in with that, you know, yeah, there are things that are left out but but hope that hopefully it takes people's attention interest and as you mentioned there is just an awful lot of history that gets. Swept under the rug neglected over. Yeah well, you know, I've told this a lot. I've said this a lot of times, but I think it's true is that you know, history, the teaching of history serves to almost oppositional purposes. One is one is to try and create this sort of legend about the place we live and who we are. And it's all, you know, we're all the good guys and they're all the bad guys. And that sort of thing. And it's all positive. It's more about image and building community and and patriotism and all that stuff. And then there's sort of and then there's the grittier history that requires some critical thinking and and shows you that, you know, what the the rules tend to favor the people who make the rules. And you mentioned that you had done a lot of writing about the Tulsa race massacre, which was, what, 1921, I believe? Yep. Yep. Was there overlap? I mean, obviously timing. Yes. But I a little bit. And one of the stories that talks about that a little bit so and Brian was found about I think it was ten days before the Tulsa race massacre. so so, you know, so that was very close in time. And there are some people who show up in both stories. One of them is a guy named John Gustafson, who was the police chief of Tulsa and was removed from office. He was basically impeached and removed from office after the massacre for dereliction of duty. Well, he was also a private detective. And so at the same time, he was the chief of police and being removed from office in Tulsa. He'd been hired by Inner Brown's family to find out who killed her. And so he spent a lot of time traipsing around Osage County and according to the FBI and that what they concluded was that he was trying to play both sides. He'd come up with information and then he'd try and chop it and see who he could get the most money for. So from. And so there is that. And then there's another guy that is semi important, a a couple more. One is a guy named John Goldsberry who at the time of the race massacre was the assistant county attorney in Tulsa. And he was the guy who was in who was part of the prosecution of John Gustafson and was also kind of involved in telling the people who I don't know how much of the Tulsa story, you know, but there was this group of people that were trying to take over the Greenwood area and they and they failed. And he was kind of in the group that was telling them, you can't do that. That's a bad idea. So then eight years later, in 1929, he was the U.S. attorney in Tulsa and he was involved in the final prosecution. Bill Hale and in John Ramsey. And then finally, I'd mentioned, well, I guess there's a team or so also there is an attorney again named Prince Freeling. And Prince Freeling was the attorney general at the time of the Tulsa race massacre. And he came in and blow in and go in and he ran the grand jury and all that stuff. By the time that the Ramsey and Hale were on trial, he was out of office and he was part of their defense team. And then and so then I know these guys are all lawyers. It's amazing how many lawyers there are involved in this. But anyway, there's a lawyer named TJ Leahy who is from Pawhuska, and he was guest Gaston's attorney in the in his impeachment trial. But then he was hired by the Osage people to look out for their interests in these prosecutions. And he was involved in the prosecution of every one of these people who went to trial, whether it was in state trial or state court or federal court. He was there as part of the prosecution and and was the guy that Burkhart went to during a state trial in Pawhuska and said, I'm tired of lying. I just want to tell the truth. And he turned on his turned on his uncle. So there are people that I've never seen like a direct, you know, like the people who burned down and were stealing money from people. And I haven't seen that. But there are there are some familiar names. Gotcha. I would say there is this connection, which is that in both cases you see where the lives of, you know, minorities, of people of color and especially women just didn't matter very much. You know, in Tulsa when they decided they were going to do something different with, with the Greenwood area, They didn't ask the black people who lived there. They just tried to do it. Yeah. All right. Well, if you owned the property. By the way, for the most. Part, so they formed this community. Well, so in, you know, in in the Osage, it was like, in fact, there's a quote in one of the FBI reports from there was a notorious outlaw, who was approached about killing a bill and ready to smear who's there, the folks who were blown up in the movie. And he said he wouldn't do it, that he had never he had never stoop so low that he would kill a woman even if she was an Indian. That's something that, you know, that that says it right. These these folks, they just you know, it it wasn't so much in my observation, it wasn't so much that they hated them. It was that they just didn't care anyway. Yeah. They were. They weren't worth anything. Yeah, that's exactly right. And so that is the connection. Very. I hate to say it's interesting because it's such a horrific things happened, but it's impossible to teach comprehensive history, you know, especially at junior high, high school, you know, elementary level. I just wish that it was a little more comprehensive, I guess I should say. Yeah. I mean, I think one of the hard things about teaching school, whatever it is, is deciding what's important in what you know, what's what are the priorities as far as teach. Well, So you do have to learn the fundamentals of history. But somewhere in there, you know, I think there's also room to learn about, you know, not everything was done, you know, virtuously. And it and you do have to question, motivations and things like why do people do the things they do? I think that's just a useful life. You know, I think one of the things that's really hard when you're writing about things like this, whether it's Tulsa or or we're talking about it or the Osage deal is how you talk about a singular event that's particularly horrific and then put it in a larger context without appearing to or actually diminishing that one event. And so, you know, the only thing I'd say is that what happened in Osage County was a singular, ah, event and particularly distressing. But things like that happened all over the and Oklahoma had some of the during the during the oil booms of the early 20th century, some pretty, pretty bad places. And they say something about, you know, human greed and and just sort of the human condition that we should be aware of and like what we were talking about earlier, where we had a I hope we've passed it. But, you know, I'm not always convinced we are that, you know, people who are different than us just don't matter. Are people who are in the in our way don't matter. You know, as a reporter, always trying to look at what is singular about this event, but also how does it fit into sort of the universe of things and how do you tell that story without how do you balance it, you know, and how do how do you not diminish, you know, this one group or one individual's story and yet presented in the full context. And that's where we're wrapping things up with the reign of terror. For more details about the crimes life in the area in the 1920s, the film Killers of the Flower Moon and the Hostages, please visit the Tulsa World's website. There are links in the show notes to all of the content. The reporters and editors at the paper created. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you don't miss what's coming up next. And you can go back in and check out any of our past episodes that you may have missed.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The latest episode of Late Edition: Crime Beat Chronicles is in partnership with the Tulsa World to introduce the story of the Osage Reign of Terror and the feature film Killers of the Flower Moon. In this episode, show producer Ambre Moton is joined by three writers from the Tulsa World, Randy Krehbiel, Jimmie Tramel and Tim Stanley, to discuss how the Bureau of Investigation came to investigate the killings, the handling of the case, the people held responsible for the killings and why the federal government had jurisdiction.  More coverage Read all of the coverage of the film Killers of the Flower Moon and related stories here. All episodes from this series can be found here. Also, for more on the movie, listen to the latest episode of Streamed & Screened: Martin Scorsese's 'Killers of the Flower Moon' might be the best film you see this year. Episode transcript Note: The following transcript was created by Slack and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically: Welcome to Late Edition Crime Beat Chronicles, a Lee Enterprises Podcast. I'm Ambre Moton, the producer and editor of the show, filling in for Nat Cardona who's taking some well-deserved time off.  If you haven't listened to the first two episodes of our series about the Osage reign of terror, please go back and listen to those before starting this one. So far, we've talked about the history of the Osage tribe and how they ended up in what became the state of Oklahoma. Their oil rich land. And how those rights were divided. And the horrible series of murders or suspicious deaths. Kidnappings and the environment of fear that made up what historians and journalists call the reign of terror. This week we're talking about the investigations into the crimes, what they found and more. Randy Krehbiel of The Tulsa World reminds us about how difficult it was to get proper investigations into the deaths of the Osage community. Who hired a private detectives to find the cause for the suspicious deaths? The Osage Tribal Council finally petitioned the federal government to send investigators, and in April of 1923, the Bureau of Investigation, the precursor to the FBI, assigned agents to the case. Here's what Randy had to say about the investigation. Well, it was called the reign of terror, because people just lived in terror. They were afraid to to talk. And when the FBI came in there in 1923 to try and sort things out in their in their letters and reports and so forth from that time, you know, they talk about how people are just terrified to talk and and they would not talk to outsiders at all. And, in fact, this is just been talked about a lot with with this book and movie. They wound up putting some some men undercover to try and insinuate themselves into the community so they could get information because people were afraid if they if they told what they knew or what they thought and they were honest about it, they they'd be killed. And and this and this was true of a lot of a lot of people. And, you know, I think Mollie Burkhart, at one time, she told her priest that she was afraid. People just, you know, people people who were not part of the and even some of them who were part of the these these organizations that were that were doing these things were afraid to talk about it. And sometimes they were afraid to talk about it because they were involved, too. You know, but but they often they were afraid to talk about it because of repercussions against themselves. Tulsa World's Jimmy Trammel commented about the investigation's primary target. Who were the the FBI, you know, kind of focusing on or suspecting of all these crimes? Well, Jesse Plemons plays the FBI character, I think, in the in the film. And as far as the actual suspects, you had some other people had kind of amateurish early tried to be the detective or figured this out or, you know, paid to find things out. What ended up happening was the gentleman who was ultimately the suspect and the primary culprit and was put on trial, many people was like, oh, my, he couldn't it couldn't be that guy. He couldn't do it because he's friendly. He was probably the most soldiers. But I mean, you just never know. I mean, it was some kind of wolf in sheep's clothing kind of deal. I asked Tulsa World's Tim Stanley about how well the boy investigated and who they held responsible for the 24 murders that they determined were on an official record. Federal investigators did a good job in so far as it went. I mean, they did they did investigate it. They did bring charges. And they did get convictions. I think the problem is, is that they were more or less content to kind of tie a bow on the whole thing at that point and then move on, which I mean, that's we see that even today in cases of mass killings or where you have serial killers or who are suspected of being connected to any number of deaths, once they get the conviction on on one or two deaths and they get that person off the street, often that's the end of it. You know, for them that, you know, the value in the case to them has, you know, they've they've achieved. But that's yeah. I mean, I think that's kind of what you had here is it was investigated and the federal agency which you know, as we may have discussed previously, the one that it would become the FBI, they did they did a solid job and bringing at least some justice in this case. But they were they didn't really want to dig any further than than just the initial investigation. I mean, J. Edgar Hoover, you know, who was the boss at the time? You know, he got he was well-known for enjoying publicity. And he saw that as valuable to the agency. And he's right. I mean, public relations matter. So, you know, coming in and getting this getting some convictions here, getting a lot of good press out of it, I think satisfied him. And he had no reason to to investigate it or direct that it be investigated further. So, yeah, unfortunate. But you know what that leads us here. You know, 100 years later and tribal members over the decades leaves us all asking a lot of questions that unfortunately can never be answered. How many people were eventually held responsible or convicted, at least of some of these crimes? There were three principal convictions. And the one that's, you know, most significant is the trial and conviction of William Hale and two of the others who were convicted along with him were associates of his. He he has always been considered the mastermind behind many in the slayings, although, again, I think, as we just discussed, the investigators were pretty happy to hang the whole thing on him that made it, you know, a cleaner case and then they could move on in all likelihood. You know, there were many other perpetrators acting independently of Mr. Hale, just opportunists, again, close family members who saw an opportunity to inherit. He was the primary conviction. He was. And he was important, very significant. Even if even if the feds didn't, you know, go any further than this. I mean, it's just, you know, without a doubt, he was behind several of them. And, you know, he ended up I think everyone, the three Hale and his associates were given life sentences, but they were all eventually paroled after just a handful of years, which, you know, is kind of a sad, you know, footnote to this is that while they did face justice, well, they were convicted. You know, they they did end up not serving all of that long. And so while the people obviously it's often this way with justice, but obviously the people that they killed, you know, that that was it for them that these guys did eventually get to get out. But yeah, so three primary, there may have been some others and some tangentially related cases, but three primary convictions. And with William Hale being the chief one. We have to take a quick break. So don't go too far. And Randy added more details about those held responsible and a little about those who weren't. How many people were held responsible for the reign of terror? Almost no one. Almost no one. So in the case of the murders that are highlighted in killers of the flower moon, the two main defendants, as it turned out, were Bill Hale, who was accused of being that kind of the mastermind, and a guy named John Ramsey, who was kind of a ne'er do well cowboy, who basically just, you know, did whatever Hale told him to do. And so each of them was tried three times in federal court for the same murder. And and they were of the first time was a hung jury. They were convicted. This is they were convicted in the next two. And and after the first conviction, there was an appeal. And so they had to be tried again. So those two guys went to prison. Molly Burkhart has been also went to prison. A guy named Kelsey Mawson who killed Anna Brown, who was who was Molly Burkhart sister, he went to prison. Byron Burkhart, who was a Molly Burkhart brother in law, even though he had confessed to killing Hannah Brown, never went to prison. He he testified against Kelsey Morse and in his trial ended in a hung jury. He was never retried. And I'm getting a little bit off your your question here, but I think you'll find this interesting. In the sixties, there was an Osage woman die and she left behind a letter that said, if something happens to me, look at Byron. Well, she was living with Byron Burkhart, who had been involved in these things 40 years before and in and again, he nothing ever happened to him. So I think there were some others that were prosecuted, but but they were very few. And one of the things you realize, especially in going through these FBI papers and reading the trial stories, is how hard it was to get convictions in these things. And and emails case. He had a lot of money and he just pretty blatantly went out and bought tried to buy alibis. I mean the the federal officials and some of the state officials that they were working with were just furious at what they considered to be dishonest and unethical behavior, behavior by his lawyers and some of these lawyers were pretty well known. One of them was a former attorney general in the state of Oklahoma, the the his defense lawyers. So the answer to your question is not many and not only not many, you know, go to prison over this. They really didn't stay very long. They'll have all got out in 16 years. But Burkhart got out before that but then got in trouble again. He violated parole. And so they put him back in in prison. Kelsey Morrison got out in a few years and was killed in a shootout in Texas. So, you know, most of these guys, they didn't serve very long in it. I remember, you know, I was reading some of this stuff and at the same time, we had the the Jones case going on here. And and, you know, whether you think he's guilty or whatever. But I just I couldn't help thinking about the difference in the way, you know, we think about that, at least in Oklahoma. It's pretty routine for people to get life without parole, if not the death penalty. And these guys were out in 16 years. So, you know, I'm sure somebody who is a lot smarter than I am to try and figure out what all of the different racial biases and so forth were in the criminal justice system or in the criminal justice system. I will say just in general, at that time, they didn't they tended not to keep people in prison any longer than they had to. They were you know, they were. It wasn't for profit back then? It wasn't. Well, no, it was it was a cost. And a lot of the states didn't have a lot of money to to they'd rather turn the guys loose and than keep housing and feeding them. Right. Yeah, exactly. How did the government kind of impact this? The FBI came in to investigate. Was the federal government making sure allocations and money were going to the right places and right people? Was it state or was it tribal responsibility? So in theory and this is one of the things that we're still fighting about in Oklahoma, but in theory, the the Osage reservation was dissolved, that statehood. And that's pretty much held up even with some recent Supreme Court decisions that have decided that some of the other reservations weren't dissolved, that statehood. So it was dissolved, that statehood. However, you still had the Osage is owned a lot of the land there because it had been allotted to them. So again, this gets a little complicated, but the state officials did not think they could get a conviction in this case, in state court and in Pawhuska. They wanted the federal government to come in. They wanted. And so the federal government has jurisdiction over Indian land. And and so and there was a lot of discussion at the time to our guys even have any kind of authority here. The the FBI was not even the FBI at that time. It was just the Bureau of Investigation in the Department of Justice. And it had very, very limited authority. And so the key sort of the key thing in bringing this case down, or one of the key things was that one of the men who who was killed, Henry Roan, was killed on an allotment that was still owned by the original L.A. The federal judge in Oklahoma originally ruled that the federal government didn't have authority over that allotment, and it went up to the U.S. Supreme Court. The US Supreme Court said no and allotment is Indian land. And that means the federal the federal government has the authority to to to do this. And so almost all of the real police work, if you will, on this was done by the by the Bureau of Investigation. And they were helped by somewhat by state and local officials. But in their letters, they talk about they just didn't feel like there were many of those people they could trust because of their interest in, first of all, what was going on in Osage County. But then more broadly, you know, they did not want anybody looking too closely into the what was going on with these Indian allotments and in the mineral rights. So. So the involvement of the federal government was key. It's really unlikely that that anything could have been done in the Osage Nation, had actually gone to Congress and asked them to intervene. The Osage is pay a big part and maybe all of the federal government's expenses in prosecuting this case. They paid the federal government to investigate these, or at least they paid the expenses of the federal government to do that. I think another important person in this does not get a lot of attention was Charles Curtis. Charles Curtis was a U.S. senator from Kansas, his whose mother was a college Indian, who was born in in that in what is now Oklahoma. And he was later the vice president of the United States. And he got involved in it and and pushed the Department of Justice to do something. And that, folks, is where we're leaving it for this episode. Thanks for listening to Late Edition Crime Beat Chronicles. Don't forget to hit that. Subscribe button so you don't miss what's coming up next. A look at where the head write stand currently with the Osages and how the Reign of Terror has its own place in pop culture.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Bill Hale, CEO and co-founder of FetchGoat joins Kevin to talk about moving from phone calls to dashboards. FetchGoat is on a mission to take the confusing communication networks of LTL networks and move this to a new streamlined dashboard system. We also talk about his career and lessons in freight sales. And yes the goat in FetchGoat stands for greatest of all time.  Follow the Put That Coffee Down Podcast Other FreightWaves Shows Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bill Hale, CEO and co-founder of FetchGoat joins Kevin to talk about moving from phone calls to dashboards. FetchGoat is on a mission to take the confusing communication networks of LTL networks and move this to a new streamlined dashboard system. We also talk about his career and lessons in freight sales. And yes the goat in FetchGoat stands for greatest of all time.  Follow the Put That Coffee Down Podcast Other FreightWaves Shows Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Episode 26- We speak with Bill Hale CEO/Co-Founder of FetchGoat.  A platform for Enterprise Shippers and Delivery Companies. FetchGoat solves the biggest issue for companies using multiple last-mile providers: How to manage and monitor all delivery companies in real time through a single dashboard. The co-founders at FetchGoat set out to connect delivery providers in every city across the country with the vision to create the world's largest delivery network. About FetchGoat:FetchGoat founders and Industry veterans knew the largest delivery network in the world already exists – it needed FetchGoat to connect that delivery network in a single easy-to-access system.We decided that providing this delivery management system for enterprise shippers was the fastest way to connect a nationwide network of the highest performing delivery agents.Learn More:www.fetchgoat.com

On today's episode of WHAT THE TRUCK?!? Dooner is talking to Federal Maritime Commission Commissioner Carl Bentzel about his just released Maritime Transportation Data Initiative report. The MTDI is setting the goal for ocean freight to pass the “pizza test,” allowing shipment visibility on par with Domino's pizza tracker. With the advent of OpenAI, marketing is getting much more sophisticated. We'll learn all about the latest trends and how to launch a successful campaign from Hawke Media founder and CEO Erik Huberman. FetchGoat is a real-time last-mile delivery monitoring and management company. We're joined by FetchGoat co-founder and CEO Bill Hale to learn the latest in last-mile freight. We'll also learn how firms are using OpenAI in this space.SONAR has a big announcement as new integration features launch. FreightWaves' Paul Howard shares the good word. Plus, a cheetah versus a robot dog; immaculate tarp work; getting body shamed by a Tesla; why armadillos are the best lumpers; and using a Ritz cracker to cut cheese. Visit our sponsorWatch on YouTubeSubscribe to the WTT newsletterApple PodcastsSpotifyMore FreightWaves Podcasts

On today's episode of WHAT THE TRUCK?!? Dooner is talking to Federal Maritime Commission Commissioner Carl Bentzel about his just released Maritime Transportation Data Initiative report. The MTDI is setting the goal for ocean freight to pass the “pizza test,” allowing shipment visibility on par with Domino's pizza tracker. With the advent of OpenAI, marketing is getting much more sophisticated. We'll learn all about the latest trends and how to launch a successful campaign from Hawke Media founder and CEO Erik Huberman. FetchGoat is a real-time last-mile delivery monitoring and management company. We're joined by FetchGoat co-founder and CEO Bill Hale to learn the latest in last-mile freight. We'll also learn how firms are using OpenAI in this space.SONAR has a big announcement as new integration features launch. FreightWaves' Paul Howard shares the good word. Plus, a cheetah versus a robot dog; immaculate tarp work; getting body shamed by a Tesla; why armadillos are the best lumpers; and using a Ritz cracker to cut cheese. Visit our sponsorWatch on YouTubeSubscribe to the WTT newsletterApple PodcastsSpotifyMore FreightWaves Podcasts

Bill Hale, CEO & Founder of FetchGoat shares his story of how growing up poor and serving his country set the stage for a successful career later in life. Listen in as he shares the FetchGoat story and how protecting your time is essential as a Founder.The Love's retread warranty is simple: We cover the retread and casing for the full life of the retread. With over 430 locations, Love's Truck Care and Speedco network is committed to providing a tire program to meet your needs. Visit loves.com to learn more about our retread warranty.Follow The Bootstrapper's Guide to Logistics on Apple PodcastsFollow The Bootstrapper's Guide to Logistics on SpotifyMore FreightWaves Podcasts

Bill Hale, CEO & Founder of FetchGoat shares his story of how growing up poor and serving his country set the stage for a successful career later in life. Listen in as he shares the FetchGoat story and how protecting your time is essential as a Founder.Follow The Bootstrapper's Guide to Logistics on Apple PodcastsFollow The Bootstrapper's Guide to Logistics on SpotifyMore FreightWaves Podcasts

A new MP3 sermon from First Baptist Church of Parker Texas is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: All Believers Will Not Perish Subtitle: Study in Acts Speaker: Bill Hale Broadcaster: First Baptist Church of Parker Texas Event: Sunday Service Date: 6/19/2022 Bible: Acts 11:1-18 Length: 30 min.

By now, regular listeners to this podcast have observed that I begin episodes with the word “Unstoppable”. I stole the idea from the old-time radio show Dragnet which began every show with the words “The Big” followed by other title words. Hey, it worked for Dragnet so why invent something new? You will hear near the end of this episode why I used “Unstoppable Guy” as the title.   Anyway, meet Dr. David Schein, JD, Ph.D. who currently is a Professor, Endowed Chair of Management and Marketing, and Director of Graduate Programs at the Cameron School of Business at the University of St. Thomas. Throughout his lifetime, Dr. Schein has worked first as a real estate salesperson, and then later as a lawyer for many years. Now he is teaching others his skills and giving them his knowledge and wisdom through his teaching efforts.   As you will discover, David made choices that moved his career along. His story is quite fascinating, and he is by any definition unstoppable. I hope you enjoy listening to David Schein's conversation and that he will inspire you with his thoughts. Please let me know your thoughts and, as always, please give us a 5-star rating after you hear what David has to say.     About the Guest: Dr. David D. Schein, MBA, JD, Ph.D. is a Professor, Endowed Chair of Management and Marketing, and Director of Graduate Programs at the Cameron School of Business at the University of St. Thomas. Dr. Schein is frequently interviewed on employment and business law matters. He speaks for business and industry groups throughout the United States on various current topics. His new book is: Bad Deal for America. He is also the author of The Decline of America: 100 Years of Leadership Failures (2018). He has been quoted in numerous national and local publications, including Forbes and US News and World Reports. In addition to hosting “Saving America” and “Business Law 101” webcasts, he has been interviewed on numerous webcasts and podcasts in the United States and England. He also is President and General Counsel of Claremont Management Group, a national human resource consulting and training firm, which is celebrated its 30th anniversary in 2019.   Author Website/Blog: https://claremontmanagementgroup.com/ Author Profile Page on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09RNG3YY3/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i1 Goodreads Profile: https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/17164693.David_D_Schein Facebook Profile: https://www.facebook.com/authordavidschein/ Twitter Account: https://twitter.com/dschein1 LinkedIn Account: David Schein | LinkedIn       About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is an Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.     Transcription Notes UM Intro/Outro  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson  01:20 Welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today, we get to talk with Dr. David Schein, who lives in Houston. And Dr. Shein, or David, as he likes to sometimes be called, is the Endowed Chair of the Cameron School of Business at the University of St. Thomas. And we'll get into all of that, and lots of other stuff. But David, I'm gonna go ahead and call you David, if that's okay. Welcome to mindset.   Dr.David Schein  01:54 Well, thank you. And I appreciate the invitation. And, you know, we had an opportunity for a pre interview recently. And I'm fascinated by your background and your accomplishments. So it's, it's it's fun to be back with you.   Michael Hingson  02:08 So do you do a podcast?   Dr.David Schein  02:10 Yes, I actually do two series right now I do. The main one is called saving America. And we're in our fourth season of that. And it's called the intersection of business and politics. And then the other series, which is more recent is called Business Law 101. And as I teach business law, to college seniors, we've selected different lectures and clipped them into just three to five minute portions. And we're now adding new sections of current business news events that have a legal aspect. So the case would be pretty busy.   Michael Hingson  02:52 Well, if you ever need to guest if you think we're a fit, after all of this, would love to explore it. That'd be great. Certainly, and certainly anyone who is listening to this, by the end, we will go through how you can reach out to David and you might be a guest on his podcast as well or certainly learn more about what he has to offer, but we'll get there. So, you said in our earlier discussions, that you grew up in a large family, I'd love to learn about that. Sure. I only had one brother so of course two parents, but only one brother. So we didn't have the luxury or, or challenges or joy of a large family.   Dr.David Schein  03:35 Well, it is a two bladed sword. I'm the oldest of seven children. My dad was a career enlisted member of the US Navy and especially in the time period I don't think they're well paid today. But certainly when he was doing his career in the military from shortly after World War Two until around 1980 The pay was was not good. And he had to you know struggle financially keep food on the table and keep a roof over our heads. And my mom because of the seven children really couldn't work outside the home because she had quite a bit to take care of it the house. We all had family responsibilities, the boys so we were very traditional background, the three boys we were responsible for yard maintenance and taking the trash out stuff and the girls helped my mom in the kitchen and with with laundry and things like that. So we all had our own responsibilities and basically clean up your own stuff. But it was it was a bit of a challenge at the same time. It's it's funny because of what you just said about having one on one brother because you get used to kind of it's it's more of a crew and An approach than an individualistic approach if you know what I mean.   Michael Hingson  05:04  Yeah. So I do understand what you're saying. So what what did your dad do?   Dr.David Schein  05:12 He was a chief Yeoman. And he retired as the chief Yeoman in the US Navy. He did 28 and a half years in the Navy, he actually was afforded an opportunity. The crossover degree or the enlisted level is called an ensign. An ensign is the crossover from enlisted to Officer. But he felt that at the time, they offered that to him, that the cost of uniforms to go to Officer uniforms and so forth, would would put too much of a financial crunch in the family. So he actually career to out as a as the senior enlisted officer, which is the chief in the Navy sergeant in the Army.   Michael Hingson  05:57 Interesting. So the military didn't pay for the uniforms and all that.   Dr.David Schein  06:04 Apparently, they they give you an allowance, but like in a lot of things, it's not enough to actually have a complete redo. And my dad was a very modest fellow. And I think he also felt socially pressured because he had not yet finished college. And generally speaking, in the military, the standard, pretty much post World War Two is that you finished college and you can start as a junior lieutenant, or, you know, junior officer, but then you can move up from there. So since he didn't have a college degree at the time, I think that was another factor,   Michael Hingson  06:41 a factor that kind of limited what he was able to get,   Dr.David Schein  06:46 right or that he was willing to take on, because he would have been dealing primarily with other officers who did have a college degree already.   Michael Hingson  06:54 So when did he actually term out in the military, then?   Dr.David Schein  06:59 I'm looking back I said, 1980, actually, I think it was around 1974. And so he actually was in the military through the Vietnam War. And at one point, he did have orders to go to Vietnam, which for a navy cabin person, if you will, Yeoman manages the business of the ship. That's a relatively safe position. But he would have been sitting on the ship outside of Tonkin Harbor, rather than being on land or flying planes over North Vietnam, which was, of course, as you know, from John McCain story, much more dangerous activity. But because he had so many children, there was some intercession there. And he was moved to a three year position at Norfolk, Virginia, which in turn ended up my strong connection to the state of Virginia. You know, Norfolk is navy town, USA,   Michael Hingson  07:59 right. So you grew up more than in Virginia than anywhere else?   Dr.David Schein  08:06 Well, I went to the school that I went to was divided in a very neat fashion. It had the school system in Norfolk, Virginia, which by the way, was a fully integrated system, which I thought was very beneficial. I went from a high school in Massachusetts, with a total of 12 black students in the whole school, in small town in suburban Boston, to a high school, a large high school that was 1/3, black. And so it was my first experience dealing with a much more diverse student population. And in fact, when I was in high school, this was still a transition period in the late 60s, where we're one of the first integrated high school debate teams. I know it seems strange today, but they the people around us were not used to seeing black and white students on the same high school debate team. And we had some interesting experiences because of that. But it was a great experience for me to go to a different state. But because it was a senior high school system when I moved there, starting my sophomore year in high school, all of the other students were starting there at the same time. So whereas many military families, you would just get dropped in at whatever day or semester that your father or mother ended up being transferred. You were kind of at the mercy of what was happening, but that did help me a great deal to be on the same level as the other students. In other words, we all were starting in a new school and our sophomore year, and it's quite a big high school. My graduating, the whole school had 2700 students for just three grades, and my graduating class had over 700 students.   Michael Hingson  09:57 What school was it again?   Dr.David Schein  09:59 It was called Norview Senior High and the novel Cavs gone back to the traditional system where the middle schools are sixth, seventh and eighth grade. And the high schools for the traditional four year high school, and but at the time was called Norview, Senior High. And it was one of the four high schools and Northfolk. And they expanded to five high schools while I was in high school I was fortunate enough to stay with, with Norview. But it was, it was very interesting experience because we were living in government housing, which was when you're in the military, especially as an enlisted man living in government, housing is a better deal, because the token cost of your housing, it cannot be replaced in the civilian marketplace. But it was very interesting, because I was the one of the first honors graduates that the high school ever had, who was living in the housing project that was served by that high school. And then my sister did it the the year behind us. So we kind of turned things around a little bit. I came in second in my high school graduating class, my sister graduated year behind me and was first in her class. So I think we redefined what it was like to have students coming out of a government housing project   Michael Hingson  11:21 must have been a little bit of a challenge, having seven kids and, and dealing with school and so on. Did you guys help each other a lot. We said we had a team network.   Dr.David Schein  11:34 Yeah, we had a particular system. Like I said, we all had family responsibilities, you know, chores to do. So what it looked like is the family would retire to the living room and watch the little black and white tea. But if they had at the time, and my sister Catherine and I who were the two oldest, would stay at the kitchen table and do homework until you know from say, you know, dinnertime until 10, sometimes later at night. And we did that every every night pretty much during the school year. So we there was my parents understood the need for us to do that. And the funny part was my parents, my mom had a GED, my dad was a high school graduate, my parents had no concept of what it was like to actually go to college, but they kept telling us you will go to college, you will go to college, college. And it's like, you know, once I got to college, it was like, I don't think my parents really quite handy that I had a clue. But in i in i didn't take any money from my parents once I left for college. And then my sister a year later also did not take any money when she left for college. So it was an unusual thing. And I find it interesting today that the federal government is talking about dismissing student loans. And, you know, all I can say is my sister, I don't know if my sister borrowed very much money at all. But I borrowed a modest amount of money for federally guaranteed loans, and I paid all of them back this year once I got out of school. And I think that's the appropriate thing to do. Because you're making an investment in your own future.   Michael Hingson  13:24 It is a lot more expensive to to do college. Now. I know when I went to university, California, Irvine. So it's the A state university system. I think it was like $273 of quarter for registration and so on. And I know living in the dorm. It was I think, if I recall, right. I'm trying to remember it was not it grossly expensive was like $1,200 to live in the dorm. And you know, it's of course, a lot different nowadays.   Dr.David Schein  14:09 Yes, it is it there's no question about it. And I just had my younger son finished college in 2018. And he attended, actually a branch of Texas a&m University, a state university here in Texas. And it was the cost of education was not trivial. But he did very well. He did very well when he's finished school. And I actually think he makes about what I make and he's working half as much so I think he had a good investment. And so you know, and one of the things that statistically they look at on the student loans is the two schools that have the largest student debt, our law school and medical school. Now in fairness law school is not a good Guaranteed payout a lot of people think it is. But, you know, speaking as a law graduate, you have to get out there and get job done and work hard. And especially if you hang out your shingle, it's certainly not a guaranteed paycheck. But for medical school, there's such an enormous demand for medical doctors, that the the normal payout is 10 to $20,000 a month as soon as they get their their medical license. So in that ballpark, I'm not sure why we would forgive student loans for those people unless they go to low income communities and do things like that. And then parallel to that, is the students who pursue education that go to work in urban school districts also get a certain balance. I think students with disabilities also can apply for student loan relief. So I favor more targeted programs than just blanket just saying, oh, we'll just write off all the student debt. I don't think that's I don't think it serves a social interest. In other words,   Michael Hingson  16:11 so you left high school and went to college. And you also, as I recall, started a radio show and eventually started your own business. Yes, early, you're doing a lot of innovative things and your family taught you well, how to think and how to move forward. And of course, the terminology we use is Be unstoppable. But tell us about college in your your business and the radio show, if you Well,   Dr.David Schein  16:39 thanks for bringing that up. I started I've been a writer since I was fairly young. And I went to K through 12k through eight rather, in the Catholic school system. And you know, that's a back then, especially when it's a very good school system with the nuns, who really focused on the three R's. And especially writing. And I'm not saying every every one of us can write, but certainly it inspired me to write and I was a very avid reader. And so when I was in high school, I was quite capable of writing papers, I used to type papers for other students and things like that. And so when I got to college, I started with the student newspaper. And the thing I ran into is they kept editing and changing my articles. I got a little upset with that after a while, when they would take an article I'd spent a lot of time writing and cut it in half. And not not very creative editing either didn't come out very good. So I had an opportunity to move into radio, went and got my license. And initially just was being a college, radio station DJ, a bit of trivia WX pn, which is the FM radio station at the Penn campus was started by none other than Hamlet prince, the famous Broadway producer just recently passed away. Yes. And I while I was doing the entertainment radio, which is what I morphed into, I actually had the opportunity to interview him several times. And he was very gracious and cordial to allow a, you know, a college student to interview him. I think he did that. Also, because we were at the SPN station initially. And so I morphed into doing a entertainment radio show from seven to 8pm on a Thursday night, and about a year into that the W H Y. Y, which is the public radio station for the greater Philadelphia area, approached me and said, Dave, how would you feel about moving your radio program, which was called the arts Menagerie? How would you feel about when we got over to h y, y. And the advantage for me is that   Dr.David Schein  19:08 while WX, pn had a very good broadcast area, in fact, the two radio stations ironically had about the same power and about the same geographic coverage, the being affiliated with H Y, Y, and gave me a much broader access to traditional press outlets like I got invited to press luncheons, that things that involve the entertainment community, and it just gave me a foot in the door. So it was a very exciting time period. For me, I covered all sorts of things, and the show was recorded in the early evening, and then broadcasts from 10 to 11pm on the East Coast, and I would cover stage plays, fine art exhibits and would include interviews with different people. were touring. And I also provided reviews of different stage place and art shows. So it, it certainly opened a lot of doors for me. And of course, an experience like that. It's a very maturing experience. I did not ever look at it as a business. But the business came about because of kind of an odd situation. I am one of those stone sober people. And I've never done drugs, I don't really understand why you would want to do drugs. And I was doing this at a time when which I colloquially referred to as sex, drugs and rock'n'roll. And the summer before I started college was Woodstock, which famously was quite a celebration of sex, drugs and rock and roll. And so it was kind of a Woodstock generation. But what what I ran into was just a very, very just oddball situation. So there was an art gallery called the painted bride on South Street in Philadelphia, and South Street had been where all the bridal galleries were affiliated, and were associated they would be there was a neighborhood of art galleries, and it was kind of a neat area. And by 1970, South Street was a ruin. All the businesses had closed and there was a lot of crime and everything. So these fellows got together these art artists and art appreciator people started an art gallery called the painted bride. And what, what they did was, they would have live entertainment on Friday and Saturday night to help out local artists, you know, folk singers and similar performers. So they somehow connected with me, and I began to cover events at the painted bride. And what happened during that time period is South Street, blossomed into an arts district. And it became very popular and very trendy, and they had some high end restaurants open on South Street and other art galleries and   Dr.David Schein  22:18 nice bakeries, and all sorts of things happened during the several year period that we're talking about. But in any event, I'm over the painted bride. And talking to some of the folk singers, and we actually had some of the folk singers come on my radio program and perform live. And you know, just with a guitar, they would just show up and you know, we didn't do any special miking or anything, we just sit them back from the mic a little bit. So we got to do some pretty interesting stuff. But what happened was several the folks on yours approached me and they said, you don't do drugs, do you? And I know that sounds like a funny question. But what was happening at the time, is that the traditional model is you have a manager if you're a performer, most performers do not have business backgrounds. There's a few out there who do, but most do not. And so what what would happen is, is that the manager would get paid for the evening, and we're not talking about a lot of money, it might have been $60, it might have been $100 would be a nice night for folks. So you're back in 1970. But if the manager was on drugs, the performer might only get 20 out of the $100 or might get nothing and so they became very concerned because they needed management help but they didn't want some drug addict taking the bulk of the money or taking most of the money. After all, they had done the work. And so I began to to slowly represent some folks or years and once the word got out, it was all word of mouth. This is course before the internet, and I didn't have the money to buy any advertising or anything. And so I we said we created an acronym. So the arts Menagerie is T A M. So we call the business operation tam productions. And I had an artist who worked with me a wonderful artist named Alan Walker, who sadly passed away about four years ago and Al did some wonderful artwork created logos and letterhead and things like that. And I would get on the phone and call various colleges mostly but also clubs and book the folk singers and then it morphed in added rock bands and add some fine arts and I put on some art shows to display the artists created artwork. So there's a lot of fun and and I was able to break even I didn't make any enormous amount of money out of it. If you can think about it. Somebody's per forming for 60 or $100. The Management Commission is between six and $10. So you have to have a lot of $10 conditions to kind of pay the rent rent wasn't bad. I remember the rent was around 110 or $115 a month.   Michael Hingson  25:19 Did you manage anyone who we might know?   Dr.David Schein  25:23 Well, unfortunately, not I, what happened is I was accepted to a full time MBA program at the University of Virginia, when I came out of my undergrad at the University of Pennsylvania. And so, because of the pressures of that, and leaving Philadelphia, were the artists all were local in the Philadelphia area, I turned over the business to a young fellow who had already started an agency and he absorbed my people. And unfortunately, and again, you know, pre email, I think the current generation forgets how much more work it was when you didn't have mobile phones and you didn't have email to stay in touch with people. And of course, I was, you know, working very hard at grad school. But I did unfortunately lose con contact. I do know that one of the performers, one of my very first performers that I worked with, did release a children's recording around 2005 or 2006. I found that on the internet, and but I wasn't able to find any of the other performers. I did have the opportunity as a member of the press to meet a number of very famous people, including Carol Channing. Helen Hayes, Edward Maul hair. Just quite a list of people. Probably one of the most fun luncheons I had was the rock promoter, Bill Graham. And Bill Graham came to Philadelphia as part of a tour. What had happened is that rock had exploded during the several year period that we're talking about in the early 1970s. And it went from small venues like the Fillmore Fillmore east and Fillmore West, into big stadiums that could absorb the sound from the who and these other big groups. And so, Graham did very intelligent thing. He did a big concert promotion, run at the very end, and then close the two play analysis. And he released a triple album of the closing of the Fillmore. And so what happened was, is that as when he's promoting that, I had an opportunity to have lunch with him. And of course, unfortunately, several years later, he died in a helicopter crash. But that was, you know, there, it was very interesting to get a chance to talk with him. Close up.   Michael Hingson  27:57 I remember being at UC Irvine one Sunday, and we learn that there was a symposium on the presidency. And one of the speakers was going to be Hubert Humphrey. So this was after he was vice president. Yeah, we have this little college radio station, we decided that we were going to interview him, there were a few of us. So we went over. And we learned where he they were going to park his limo, and then he would walk to the gymnasium to do the presentation. And we intercepted the car. And as he got out, we said, Mr. Vice President, could we interview you and and he was very gracious. He said, You know, after my presentation, I'll be glad to talk with you boys. And and sure enough after the the meeting was over, the symposium was over. There were other people at a Gallup from Gallup polling organization. I remember even asked him a question. We were pretty impressed by Gallup being there but anyway, he did. Humphrey did his his session and came back out and they were trying to hustle him right back into the car. And he said, No, I promised these boys an interview and we're going to do it. He did, which was was a lot of fun.   Dr.David Schein  29:15 You know, it's interesting. You mentioned Hubert Humphrey. We talked a little bit about my high school days. And in order to get a full scholarship to an Ivy League college, I worked pretty hard in high school. And one of the things that happened while I was in high school is the beginning of the fall semester of my senior year, I was invited to the national citizenship conference, which was held in Washington DC, and I got to stay at the Mayflower Hotel, and just all sorts of exciting things happened. And one of the things I did while I was there is I went to the Hubert Humphrey for President headquarters. There you go. And I actually have a full color poster of Hubert Humphrey for president and I'd never displayed it, I did display it in my dorm room, briefly. So it's got a few pinholes in the corners. But I haven't in storage at this time. And I will probably put that up at eBay at some point. And you know, it should be a kind of a fun item. But it's an authentic, I can vouch for it, because I personally picked it up in September 1968, from the uebert Humphrey for President headquarters. But it was very interesting. I do have a few other bits and pieces from my visit to their political office there. So and I've been, you know, following politics for, you know, very long time. And so, in addition to my interest in business is my interest in politics.   Michael Hingson  30:47 So you went on to Virginia after undergraduate school, right? Correct. Yeah,   Dr.David Schein  30:53 UVA, at that time, had a kind of a take off on the Harvard program. It was a two year case method program. And most of the professors at the Virginia Darden School, Colgate Darden School of Business, had attended Harvard and done their doctor Business Administration DBA program. And so it was a heavily case method program, which is why the Harvard system was was styled. And because of Charlottesville, being Charlottesville, especially back then today. It's a hotbed of startups. But back then it was kind of a sleepy town that just happened to be hosting a top notch Business School. And while I was in their two year program, which is very intense program, the school moved into the top 20. And I think it's been in the top 20 business schools since.   Michael Hingson  31:51 So you eventually went to the Wharton graduate school?   Dr.David Schein  31:55 Well, while I was an undergraduate at Penn, I attended, I took about a year's worth of credit at the Wharton graduate division. And that was a very interesting experience. At that time. I don't know how pennant structure today, but at that time, there was no barricade between taking undergraduate graduate courses. And so I took a full years equivalent at Wharton graduate. And as I finished, the people at Wharton graduate knew me because they started the first entrepreneurship center in the United States collegian Entrepreneurship Center. And the person who started that center, love to interview the young David shine. Because I was out there doing it, you know, with, you know, running it out of the second bedroom in my little apartment, and they got kind of a kick out of it. And they would periodically when I would blow through their building, they'd say, hey, you know, let's talk to you for a few minutes. You know, what's the latest and kind of things that you and I just talked about? They would talk to me about it as they got it started. And to give you an idea of recently UPenn opened an entire building dedicated to that entrepreneurship center. So that center has been very successful. But what happened was, is the Wharton graduate people said, you know, look, they and they were blunt, they said, Look, shine, we know you too well, we don't want you to just stay here and get an MBA, go someplace else. And I was very ambitious and wanted to get my credentials. And the Darden School at Virginia was a similar program, they really wanted people who had been out working for, you know, two or three years and then come back for their doctorate, or master's degree rather. But in my case, they they allowed me to come in directly from college, because I have, I did have the radio show. And I did have the business experience of having my own business. Now, if I had it to do over again, I would really should have gone out and worked, as we say, worked corporate for a couple years and gotten a little bit more background before I got my MBA. But you know, that's, you know, that that's all news at this point. And in fact, I went directly from the Darden program to law school. And my connection to Euston was, I had family here in Houston. And they said, Hey, we heard you're thinking of going to law school, lunch, come down here and check out the University of Houston. So that was how I ended up at Euston.   Michael Hingson  34:32 What cause you though, to get a doctrine of jurisprudence or go into law, even though you had clearly been kind of going in another direction?   Dr.David Schein  34:41 Well, a couple of things that it I found that there were hitches. And frankly, I tried to get some legal help for like drafting contracts for my performers and things like that. And the attorneys that I worked with, I'll be very blunt. On work was sloppy. They didn't take, you know, young guy who was still in college seriously. They didn't give us the quick turnaround that we needed with contracts and things like that. And so I said, you know, I want to make sure that I'm a different kind of attorney at a business attorney who really, you know, get stuff out the door quickly. And so that was one factor. The other factor is at that time, a number of major corporation print presidents were also law graduates. So people either had an MBA and a law degree or just a law degree, and had been moved into the corner office. So I saw it as, as a win win move to go to law school. If I had that to do over again, I would probably law schools interesting, because for most people, it's a three year full time gig, or four year part time gig. And I would probably have taken some of the very generous offers I had finishing the MBA program and gone to law school at night on the four year cycle. So again, you know, there's a lot of options that you come across on the road there, but I did do college, the MBA in the law degree back to back to back, and all of them full time. I did finish law school a semester early. So that that helped me a little bit.   Michael Hingson  36:28 Something that I'm curious about, you have, clearly so far, we're talking all about your education, but you've done some pretty well rounded things, you've gotten an MBA, you went and got a law degree and so on. How did your upbringing and your your family life kind of shaped you to have that kind of mental attitude about going after education and just being really a survivor in what you did in college, and then later?   Dr.David Schein  36:59 Well, my parents worked very hard. Like I said, my mom did a little bit of gig work outside the house from time to time, but generally was a full time homemaker. And I can tell you, when you're raising seven kids, and you're doing a great job, which she did, she did a phenomenal job. That's That's dedication. That's hard work. That's you get you get up early, and you work hard all day. My dad, at the same time, had a successful military career. And he often worked a second job, especially when I would have been in middle school. Before we moved to Norfolk, Virginia, he works seasonal work in the evenings that would accommodate his military schedule when he was on shore duty. The way the Navy works, you're on a ship for two years, and then you're on shore duty for two years, and they rotate that. And so when he was on his shore duties schedule, he would work a second job to make some additional money and help keep the bills paid. So having seen my parents work that hard, certainly set a good example for us. The other thing, as I mentioned is my parents were they were pretty tough on us in terms of you will go to college, you will study hard, you will go to college. So my parents, you know, the paid attention to that and imbued us with this overall drive. My dad's family had a business interest and so my father's father was a mom and pop grocer in a small town in Massachusetts before the a&p opened the first major supermarket chain, open one of their locations in Taunton. Again, Tom's a small town between Boston and Providence, and over on the eastern part of Massachusetts, but it was kind of interesting, because that's a tough business and Joe shine. My father's father ran that grocery store during the Great Depression, when people were you know, they were giving food away up the street to people who weren't working. And here he was selling food. So he was a very creative person and in so the, you know, it's kind of a blood line   Michael Hingson  39:16 there. What did you do after you got your law degree?   Dr.David Schein  39:23 Well, being here in Houston, Texas, it was pretty straightforward. A while I was in law school, second half of law school, I worked for Gulf Oil, part time you get on an hourly basis working with natural gas contracts. When I finished law school, I got a minor offer from Gulf that I turned down another offer from another oil company. And I turned that down and then I hit the right one is I was given a job offer by Shell Oil Company, and I then had a nice, brief career with Shell Oil I work for Shell Look, the three states in three years, I had two promotions in that time period. And it was a tremendous place to work. The people say, Well, Dave, it was such a great place to work. Why did you leave? Well, I left to be a manager at a midsize oil company. And part of the problem with a Shell Oil is it's such a big organization, that if you're very ambitious, the opportunity to move up tends to be a little slower, just because there's so much competition, there's so many people between you and the next rung up the ladder. So I did you have a great deal more physical freedom and opportunity to do more things with a smaller oil company. But that's so I did, I went with another old company. And so my total corporate employment was about 10 years. And at that point, I hung out my shingle. And so I did private practice for about a dozen years after that.   Michael Hingson  40:59 You couldn't convince them to change the name of the company from Shell Oil to Schein oil Hmm.   Dr.David Schein  41:05 Well, I'll tell you, they after I left shell that they, at some point, shell did start a new ventures division. And I thought that was pretty interesting. And I actually knew some people worked in the shell ventures operation. And I think if they'd had that when I was still there and had an opportunity to go over there, that might have been a pretty interesting thing, because basically, shell would let some of their executives work on some of the startup company ideas. And I think that was a pretty creative approach. Shell also went through some major changes. It used to be there was shell, USA, and shell, Dutch Shell, that parent company, and then they kind of liquidated shell USA and created like Shell global or something like that. So the company did go through some changes, but that was after I left and gone to the technical Oil Company. Technical Oil Company was one of the big conglomerates at the time when conglomerates were sexy. Of course, ITT was the most famous one, Harold Geneen. But tenneco was a very successful adult, primarily, the money originally came from the oil and gas industry following World War Two. But unfortunately, while I was there, the company kind of self destructed. And one of the reasons why I decided to set out in private practice was I could see that the tentacle was on the way out. So organization, and I felt it's better to get out there and do my thing. And, and that was a very interesting and enjoyable period. And you know, as I tell people, and I left corporate, and went out, hung out my shingle, and I did that, and never missed a mortgage payment. But, again, similar to starting my business in college, it was certainly not an easy path.   Michael Hingson  43:01 What did what did you do? What kind of law did you practice once you went out on your own?   Dr.David Schein  43:05 I have always been a small business representative. And my main focus is employment law. So I do a lot of business contracts, and I do lots of employment law. And when I was corporate, that was my responsibility. I was a human resource representative. I worked in industrial relations, which is working with unions when I was at Shell Oil. And then when I went to tenneco, I worked with unions and I also did a lot of retail employment law, technical at the time was operating about 500 large cell service gas stations in the south in the southeast, and I handled a bout 1500 EEOC complaints over a five year period, that's a pretty good volume.   Michael Hingson  43:58 Well, somewhere along the line, you got involved in some way or another and Equal Employment and Disability Law and so on. I gather   Dr.David Schein  44:08 that is correct. When I was at tenneco, I was I got involved with the Texas Commission on employment of the handicap, which of course, we use the term disabled today. But Texas was actually ahead of the fence because this was in the 80s, the Texas law related back to the 70s. And so I did have an opportunity to work with a fellow named Bill Hale who headed up that commission for the state of Texas and was also kind of on the ground floor when President Bush signed the Americans with Disabilities Act in 1990. And then that was phased into effect between 90 and 94. So I was one of the early people understand it because it has a lot of the features that the state law passed. And you know, I'm very active advocate for employment of the disabled. As recently as yesterday, when I was teaching business law, I was talking with my students about the, the, you know, importance of consideration of how reasonable accommodation works under the Americans with Disabilities Act, and how the important thing is to take a look at people for what they can do, not what they can't do.   Michael Hingson  45:26 Yeah, and of course, today, we would probably even call it the commission for the disabled, rather commission for persons with disabilities, because we really, the words do matter. And yes, saying I'm disabled, because I happen to be blind, should really be no different than saying you're disabled, because you happen to be able to see and without lights, you don't have a lick of probability of being able to travel around. But you know, we, we all have our challenges. And we also all have our gifts. So I appreciate persons with disabilities as opposed to other things. One of the I had a discussion with someone this morning, who was talking about the fact that I'm visually impaired, and I said, I don't think so. Again, words matter, because I said, Why do you say I'm visually impaired? Do I look different? Simply because I'm blind? Is my whole appearance change visually? Because I'm blind? Yeah, I don't like vision impaired because I think I have lots of vision, as I love to tell people I just don't see so good. But I say and vision are enough synonymous that vision impaired is something I could tolerate, although I think that either I'm sight impaired, or you're blind, impaired. And you know, one way or the other. We we work that out. But disability is a term that has to become different than what people have believed in and decided that it is because the reality is, having a so called disability has taught me that everyone has a disability, and why should I be different than anyone else, just because I'm in a minority. And of course, that's a real problem, right? I happen to be in a minority. And the result is that people who are not tend to think, because we're taught that way that we're better.   Dr.David Schein  47:23 Well, I think, obviously, might be made some very, very good points there. And as a person who does management, training, for EEO sensitivity, and things like that, I emphasize the fact that there's so many opportunities in life. And it's interesting what you say, I have very good daytime vision. But I have large eyes. But I didn't really realize they don't look that big to me. But I have large pupils, which means that in light, I have to protect my eyes from too much light. And in the dark, I have extreme trouble seeing in the dark. So I'm one of those people that when I walk into a room late in the afternoon, or in the evening, the first thing I do is run for lights and turn all the lights off. Because that way I don't trip and fall over something and I actually clear paths so that I'm able to function if if I don't turn the lights on, and I decide to, you know, get up before daylight or something like that. So yeah, all of us have to make adjustments for whatever is unique about us. And probably a better word is saying what are your unique qualities and qualifications versus saying what are your disabilities?   Michael Hingson  48:47 And I think that's an absolutely valid point. And one I wish more people would would recognize, how do you think the Americans with Disabilities Act? Looking back on it now? Because it's been 31 years since it was signed? Yes. How do you how do you feel that it is really changed? Well, our our whole outlook on people with minorities such as I have, or have we really mentally changed all that much.   Dr.David Schein  49:24 You know, I don't think we've changed it. First of all, I think the Act has helped. That's, that's number one. I think it's a positive in itself. I think there's a couple of major issues with it. One of them is that my experience, which is extensive, I've handled over 2000 EEOC complaints at this point, again, a very high volume when I was working with retail gasoline stations, is that the least competent federal agency I've dealt with which is really saying something when you consider how incompetent So many of the federal agencies are is, is EEOC, and in my experience with them has been that they're there, they're not serving the public interest, sadly, and they're not well run, and they, they don't train their people well. And I think if you're going to have a dis, you know, a division that helps people with discrimination, that it ought to be a lot more effective that it should be number one focused on education before everything else. And I don't see them doing much of that. Number two, what's happening throughout the United States with the EEOC is they are flooded with complaints, they are flooded. And what the EEOC needs to do is they need to put a tough person in charge at each office, who, who sells people to get a life and show up for work and do your damn job. And pick out the cases that require attention that really should have attention. Because by trying take every case that comes in the door, they end up not giving good service to the people who are legitimately discriminated against, which is a fairly small percentage of the population, by the way. And they're, they're not, they're not getting anybody's job done. So I'd like to see them run a lot better than the alr. And I don't have a magic wand for that. But that's part of what I'm seeing, again, as somebody who's had a lot of work with the the see. But in terms of education, I think that we have done a better job of sensitizing our population, particularly our younger population, to the realities of we're all different. And I think part of making people more sensitive to what color people are protection of LGBT, and things like that, that if you know, as developing a more accepting population, and frankly, a better educated population. And Michael, you touched on some key points of that is that you, you have certain positives and attributes that you use to be an effective person. And that's what we need to focus on is what are the pieces that somebody can do that makes them effective. And what I talked with my students about just yesterday is to if you there used to be if somebody would would come in to a employment application. And when we used to have paper applications, almost everybody courses using online today, but a person in wheelchair would roll into an office and say to the person at the front desk, I'd like an employment application. And the person that front desk would say, Well, sir, you're in wheelchair, you know, we're not going to give you a we're not going to give you an employment application, because your wheelchair and the Americans Disability Act, of course, you know, interfered with that took a while for employers to figure that out. But to avoid that knee jerk reaction that this person can't do the job, let's focus on what they can do. And when somebody gets hurt at work and can't do the job they could previously do. That doesn't mean you just dump them on the street, it means that you make reasonable accommodation, and you try to see the best way to put that person to work. Do they have other skills, they may not be able to drive a truck or do certain mechanical things anymore? But are they capable of being a dispatcher or bookkeeping or sales calls? Is there someplace else that that person can be valuable to your company?   Michael Hingson  53:47 One of my favorite speeches that I deliver is called moving from diversity to inclusion is actually part mostly the second episode and unstoppable mindset. And one of the things that I talk about in there is how people deal with disabilities. And I actually play a segment from a television show called What would you do that John, Ken Jonas and IB, Elan ABC does, and this particular episode had? Well, the premise of the show is they get actors to play different roles. And they do it to see how people will react to uncomfortable situations. So they had in this case, two women from the Rochester Institute for the Deaf, they were deaf, and they go into this coffee shop where there's a guy behind the counter who happened to be an actor, a a barista, and there's a sign out that they're looking for employees. And so one of them goes up and says, I want to apply for a job and the guy goes, well, what what can you do? And she says, Well, you have a kitchen job available here and he said Yeah, but you can't do that you're deaf. And she and by the way, this is only in the last 12 or 13 years. So it's way post ADA. Yeah. And she says, well, but it's a kitchen job, I'm not really being out here I would be in the kitchen. Well, but what if I need something immediately? And she's, well, you could, you could write it down Well, I don't might not have the time to write it down. You're just not someone that I could hire. And the whole point is to see how people who over here this react and so part of the, the show, and they record it all, of course, part of the show had three HR people come up to this barista not knowing that he's just an actor, and say, Look, you handled that all wrong. These people have more rights than we do, this is all recorded, these people have more rights than we do, you should have just taken the application written not a fit, and filed it and sent them on their way.   Dr.David Schein  56:01 Oh, my goodness.   Michael Hingson  56:03  And some, some others really hit the roof about what this barista guy was doing. And of course, they they intercept everyone and tell them what's really going on somewhere on the line. But, but we really have still a very long way to go in terms of how we, we deal with so called disabilities. And it's in part because of that show that I came up with this whole concept. And in reality, we all have disabilities, most of you are like dependent, and we love you anyway. But, you know, the, the fact is that we shouldn't be judging what someone's abilities are or aren't. And it's, it's so unfortunate that we do well, it   Dr.David Schein  56:44 this is a, you've raised an important example. And as I indicated, that is the classic that I try and untrained people from, if you will, to have that knee jerk reaction, it's like, let's focus on what this person can do. And unfortunately, because of decades and decades of discrimination against people with disabilities, you have a very interesting situation out there, where when a person has been accommodated, and does get a position where the company has reached out and said, let's see how we can get afford this person opportunity. A lot of times they tend to be great employees, and tend to have be very loyal to the companies that are more accepting and inclusive. And so it's, it's, you know, it's a win win for the situation.   Michael Hingson  57:39 Sure. How did you get into education, college education, and so on from law?   57:47 Well, I had decided that as I left law school, that about the 25 year marker, that I would move into education, it's just something I felt that that was an appropriate, you know, career path for me. So I did a, you know, a decade corporate and about 12 years in private practice full time. And then when my last kid left for college, I said, you know, it's time for me to do something. And I had been adjunct teaching very actively. And what happened was, is I realized that with even though I had a law degree in an MBA, I was very well qualified, that without a PhD, I would not be successful and competing for tenure. And if you're not a tenured professor, you know, that's kind of the gold standard in higher ed. And so I went back to the University of Virginia where I'd got my MBA, and I worked on my PhD full time. And it was quite an eye opener. And I know we're running out of time, I'll just say very quickly. The MBA PhD program went very, very well for me, I did quite well like finished program a year ahead of my cohort, because I was so focused and went year round and so forth, managed to continue to work with my clients here in Houston, to you know, least keep keep the bills paid. But unfortunately, when I finished my PhD, it took me two years to get my first full time appointment. And the discrimination that I faced as a person who got their PhD in the mid 50s, H mid 50s. Whereas the traditional and this touches on classic discrimination. The traditional PhDs are in their mid 30s. So I was 20 years older than the normal quotation marks PhD recipient, and it's been a bit of a struggle, so I'm very appreciative of the universities that did afforded me a full time teaching opportunity. And once I got into the track, I progressed from a visiting Peru Professor to a full professor to tenure, endowed chair, but I had to have that opportunity in the first place.   Michael Hingson  1:00:08 So in addition to all of that you mentioned earlier that you like to write even when you were young, what's writing done for you, in all of your experiences?   Dr.David Schein  1:00:23 Well, you cannot get a PhD. If you're not a writer, you cannot be a successful attorney without being a writer. And you cannot be an author unless you sit down in your write. And so one of the things that PhD did for me is it gave me the understanding of doing deep research and things like that. And that enabled me to write decline of America 100 years of leadership failures, which was released by postale press on Presidents Day 2018. And then my newer book, a bad deal for America, was released on Presidents Day 2022. And I'm hoping not to have a four year gap between that and my next book, but I am working on as we talked about briefly on a musical review, called novel T, the letter T. And it is a musical review of novelty songs from the 50s through the 70s and 80s, when there were variety of novelty songs that became gets on the radio. So that's a throwback to my days of doing the arts Menagerie.   Michael Hingson  1:01:30 Flying purple people eater was Shep willing, I would assume   Dr.David Schein  1:01:34 you are very good. That is definitely in the list. And I'll have to go back. And look I have one of my research assistants has been talking to the different publishing houses to make sure that we have the rights to to present that. So the review focuses on the music. There's not a lot of text in between. But we actually through doing podcasts to promote my current book, met a gentleman, Douglas Coleman, and Douglas has a podcasting show. And he has actually written a theme song for the new musical. And that's very close to being ready.   Michael Hingson  1:02:16 That sounds like a lot of fun.   Dr.David Schein  1:02:19 That's the plan. It's designed to be family friendly.   Michael Hingson  1:02:22 It should be that would be a good thing. Well, how do people get ahold of you reach out to you learn about you and your books and so on, as well. You've been an unstoppable guy. There's no question about things. And you're driven.   Dr.David Schein  1:02:39 I'm still working on it, Michael. It's, it's a it's a work in progress. And my consulting firm is called Clermont management group. So we're Wide Web Claremont management group.com. I am on Facebook. I'm on LinkedIn, Twitter, Geter, and I'm trying to remember some others. But I'm pretty easy to find and of course of both of my books, bad deal for America and decline of America are on Amazon.   Michael Hingson  1:03:08 So is there a specific email address or LinkedIn address or anything that people should?   Dr.David Schein  1:03:14 It's D shine and you know, about the only hard part is my last name is s ch, e i n, it's, it's spelling. You know, the EI is announced sign for the German spelling. But other than that, if people can put in David de shine, and it'll probably pop up several places. I think Amazon is got enough market power that that tends to pop up first.   Michael Hingson  1:03:40 Right? Well, David, thank you very much. This has been fun. And as I told you, initially, and I say, on the podcast, one of the reasons for doing this is to tell stories that will inspire people. And I've got one last question I've got to ask, what would you advise both for young people today and parents today, having grown up in a time when information wasn't so readily available, or self-gratification wasn't so readily available? Now, both of those kinds of things have changed and everyone wants everything immediately? How would you advise people, kids and adults?   Dr.David Schein  1:04:23 Well, I think it's extremely important to mirror what my parents did, which is that the focus of childhood should be on education and a solid three Rs education. Even though I'm a business professor. I encouraged stem and I'd like to see us get as many children motivated for Science, Technology, Engineering and Math stem as possible in the United States because we are trailing other countries, and I would encourage parents to be involved in their children's education. Trying to make sure that the children are getting a real education and not a bunch of political malarkey is let's focus on the three R's. And let the students when they get a little bit older, figure out how they want to move in life in terms of politics, and you know, those kinds of things. And everybody can get through college, again, this student loan dismissal stuff, clouds, the fact that there are plenty of scholarship opportunities. There are financial loans out there. The school that I teach at, we have 92% of our undergraduates on financial aid, many of that is grants, that doesn't mean loans. I mean, that's money, they don't have to pay back. And so if students do well in high school, and they perform well, there are opportunities for them. And again, I'm living proof that if you if you've put in the time, and you do it, it can be I was successful as a corporate person and successful in private practice and successful in higher ed. But it came with putting in that time, and having that good parental support at home at the critical period when I needed a   Michael Hingson  1:06:12 course, if we're going to be totally technical. And this was even a Jeopardy question recently, out of the three R's. There's only one that's really an art. And that's the reading because writing isn't an art and arithmetic doesn't start with. You are absolutely correct.   Dr.David Schein  1:06:31 I wasn't a very good speller when I was in grammar school, and the nuns used to really take me to task I think spelling used to be a separate grade when I was in grammar school with the nuns. And I flunked several years in a row and you say, well, let's get this straight. You are a young high school graduate, you've just graduated before you turned 80. How the heck did you get through flunking all those courses, and it was very straightforward. My mother was the secretary for the church operation down the street. And the nuns knew that Dave shine sometimes flunked spelling, and cursive writing, but he was a pretty smart kid, and his mom was right there with him. And so they passed me, you know, probably fourth, fifth and sixth grade. But what happened was, is when I got to that point where the light switch went on, and I said, Gosh, I can really do this, I had a very successful seventh and eighth grade, and then a very successful high school experience, because I did absorb that even if I didn't show it on my report card.   Michael Hingson  1:07:38 And then you went on from there. Well, David Schilling, thanks for being here. We really enjoyed it. And I hope it inspires parents and kids and and I hope it inspires people to reach out to you.   Dr.David Schein  1:07:54 Well, I'm delighted to do it, Michael, it's been an absolute pleasure to meet you and my folks of work with your folks to see about having you make an appearance on saving America   Michael Hingson  1:08:05 would love to do it. And for all of you definitely go find David's saving America podcast. And we hope that you enjoyed this, please give us a five star rating. Wherever you're listening to the podcast, go and rate us it's the way we are able to, to know what you think. And of course, we like good ratings. We like to hear whatever you have to say and if you want to comment about this or any of our podcasts, feel free to email me at Michael M I C H A E L H I acessibe.com. And, or you can go to our podcast page, which is www dot Michael hingson.com/podcast. And check out whether it's there or anywhere you get podcasts. Go check us out and listen to some of the other episodes. And we hope that you'll join us again next time on unstoppable mindset. Thanks again for listening. And Dave, thanks for me. Thank you.   UM Intro/Outro  1:09:07 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Brandon is joined by Bill Hale who photographed Metallica in the early club days, as well as Megadeth and many other legendary artists. Bill shares stories of the early years of Metallica, including Dave Mustaine exiting the band, James and Lars reaction hearing Megadeth for the first time, the passing of Cliff Burton and so much more. BUY Metallica: The Club Dayz 1982-1984 and Megadeth: Another Time, A Different Place Follow Bill Hale on Twitter and Instagram Metallicast Intro Music by Bison: Twitter: https://twitter.com/bisonmusicuk Instagram: http://instagram.com/bisonmusicuk/ SoundCloud: http://soundcloud.com/bisonmusicuk Bison T-shirts: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/bisonmusicuk Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/40yidBirnH2jhF21ipV825 Bandcamp: https://bisonmusicuk.bandcamp.com Follow @MetallicastPod on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/metallicast/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/metallicast/support

On this episode old friends from Metal Rendezvous Magazine, journalist John Strednansky and photographer Bill Hale, join host Bob Nalbandian as they talk about some of the classic concerts they witnessed in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s as well as some other crazy stories! --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/cmspn/message

Smile! You're on a legendary photographers roll of film.  Bill Hale captured Metallica basically from day one during the Kill 'Em All era of 1982-1984.  His Book “Metallica - The Club Dayz” captured just what raw energy was created on and off stage back then.Mustaine holding the beer pitchers pic, thank Bill.  Lars being held horizontal in his silver spandex, thank Bill.  The shot of Lars looking over his short lived roto-toms, thank Bill.  Cliff and Dave captured tuning their axes in a dirty old dressing room, thank Bill.  You get the idea.  Without Bill's vision, and effort, we believe these memories form the formative years could have been non existant.He mentions a few bands he's worked with you might recognize.  AC/DC, Rainbow, UFO, Sammy Hagar, Thin Lizzy, Judas Priest, and the list goes on….not to mention doing this with all the old school photography skills that have been long forgotten about.  A few fun Lars stories, 3132 MetalliManshion parties, and we play “…And Voting For All” on our 20 week to go countdown to the 40th Anniversary.  Thank you again Bill, we appreciate your time and legendary work.  See you soon on Waikiki!Instagram - andpodcastforallTikTok - andpodcastforallFaceBook - ...And Podcast For AllLiquid Death - Official sponsor of APFA liquiddeath.com -Murder your Thirst, Death To Plasticandpodcastforall@gmail.com for all your wants, wishes, comments, Hate Train mail, needs, desires, or just to say what's up to the guys.  Email us and let us know if you want to be our next guest!  After all, it's a Podcast FOR ALL.

A new MP3 sermon from First Baptist Church of Parker Texas is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: Israel's Destruction - part 1 Subtitle: Study in Luke Speaker: Bill Hale Broadcaster: First Baptist Church of Parker Texas Event: Sunday Service Date: 3/14/2021 Bible: Luke 21:1-4; Luke 21:5-19 Length: 40 min.

A new MP3 sermon from First Baptist Church of Parker Texas is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: The Resurrection In Exodus Subtitle: Study in Luke Speaker: Bill Hale Broadcaster: First Baptist Church of Parker Texas Event: Sunday Service Date: 1/31/2021 Bible: Luke 20:27-40; Exodus 3:1-6 Length: 38 min.

A new MP3 sermon from First Baptist Church of Parker Texas is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: Wicked Tenants Destroyed Subtitle: Study in Luke Speaker: Bill Hale Broadcaster: First Baptist Church of Parker Texas Event: Sunday Service Date: 1/3/2021 Bible: Luke 20:9-18 Length: 38 min.

METALLICA: THE CLUB DAYZ, 1982 - 1984: Live, Raw and Without a Photo Pit! collects the multitude of killer pictures of Metallica captured in their formative years by Bill Hale. He was there for six of the band’s early shows, including their first with Cliff, the band's last with Dave, and the first Metallica show with Kirk. Megadeth: Another Time, A Different Place is similarly stuffed with seminal photos, and features a foreword by Dave Mustaine himself. Bill talks about those shows, those guys, that early scene, and his current life in Hawaii. Speak N' Destroy podcast theme composed, performed, and produced by Scott Mellinger. Visit SpeakNDestroy.com. Support us on Patreon. Follow on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Follow Ryan J. Downeyon Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Speak N' Destroy is part of the PopCurse podcast network.

Squirt and Sprout dive into the deep blue sea to explore the world of sharks. These finned friends vary in size, shape, and color. We read a book picked out by Sprout, Clark the Shark - Too Many Treats written by Bill Hale and illustrated by Guy Francis. We learn a valuable lesson about sweet treats and have fun saying he word "googly."

A new MP3 sermon from First Baptist Church of Parker Texas is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: The Forgotten Weapon of Christianity Subtitle: Study in Luke Speaker: Bill Hale Broadcaster: First Baptist Church of Parker Texas Event: Sunday Service Date: 9/13/2020 Bible: Luke 18:1-8 Length: 36 min.

Giving Thanks Chris and Aaron return this week for Giving Thanks; an episode filled with good cheer, good songs, and some guest appearances by old friends. In this hour-plus special, the guys call some of their favorite past guests to thank them for being on the show and find out what they are up to now. Episode 215 Guests include Robert Fleischman, Chip Z'nuff, Hirsh Gardner, Jack Russell, Bill Hale, Mitch Lafon, Victor Ruiz and more! In between calls, the guys spin some of their favorite tracks that are "thank you" themed including songs from Dope, Big Star, Ozzy Osbourne, Sevendust, Kingdom Come, Great White, ZZ Top and more! It's a gratifying listen. We hope you enjoy Giving Thanks and SHARE with a friend! Guest Calls & Songs (In Order) Dope - "Thanks for Nothing" Volbeat - "Thanks" Victor Ruiz (Mars Attacks, Earpeeler) Ozzy Osbourne - "Thank God for the Bomb" Hirsh Gardner (New England, Warrior) Kingdom Come - "Thank You All" Chris Epting (Author, Adrenalized) Sevendust - "Thank You" Jack Russell (Great White) Great White - "Thank You" Toddzilla (Funkhammer, Jones World) Soundgarden - "Thank You (Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin)" Mitch Lafon (One on One with Mitch Lafon) Big Star - "Thank You Friends" Bill Hale (Photographer) Monday Knights - "Thank You for the Metal" Robert Fleischman (The Sky) Zakk Wylde - "I Thank You Child" Chip Z'nuff (Enuff Z'nuff) ZZ Top - "I Thank You" Geeks of the Week: Dave Shirt, Rockin’ Ron Runyon, Chad Pollock, Mike Blount, Miguel Nunez, Greg McGlone, David Alpizar, Kevin Williams, Cobras & Fire Podcast, Michael Bartley, Dan Chaput, Ian Wadley (Rock & Metal Combat Podcast), Billy Hardaway, Antoni Espin Ufano, Wayne Cross, Colin Francis, David Glynn, Andrew Jacobs, Robin Bennett, Warren Money, Jay Fenhaus, Derik Novak, Jay Motown Drummer, Ernesto, Aguilar, Billy Hardcore, Hoops, Adam Cox, Mikael Burrell, PodcastsAreTheBest, Joe Ciambelli, Jody Havenot (Strange Ways Podcast), MusicMagsAndWax, The Mooger Fooger, James McIlheney, Nick Rose, TJ Cullen, Adam Cox, Jay Szczeblewski, Dave Stell Buy Music! Kingdom Come Volbeat Ozzy Osbourne Dope Big Star Soundgarden Sevendust Great White ZZ Top Monday Knights Visit Our Sponsor! HK Collecitbles, Inc. (Specializing in hard to find music and movies as well as authenticated/graded entertainment and historical collectibles.) HK Collectibles , Inc. on Ebay Contact Us! Rate, Review, and Subscribe in iTunes Join the Facebook Fan Page Follow on Twitter Follow on Instagram E-mail Us Subscribe to our Youtube channel! Call us on the Hotline! (540) DBGeek - 1 or (540) 324-3351 Support Us! Shop through our Amazon link! Donate to the show! Stream Us! Stitcher Radio Spreaker TuneIn Become a VIP Subscriber! Click HERE for more info Comment Below Direct Download

This week Decibel Geek presents Where You Come From; a new ongoing series that explores the bands and history of a particular city and the first stop is Detroit, Michigan. With a robust rock history, the Motor City is well-represented from the early days of hard  rock and punk music up through today. Where You Come From - Detroit In this hour-plus special, your hosts discuss the venues and artists that helped make Detroit rock! Tracks from such artists as Iggy & The Stooges, The MC5, The Frost, Ted Nugent, Death, Grand Funk Railroad and many more are featured. It's a piston-poppin' good time as Decibel Geek presents Where You Come From - Detroit. Enjoy and SHARE with a friend! Mentioned: A Band Called Death Rock and/or Roll Podcast - Detroit Episode Andrew WK Information Buy Music! Iggy & The Stooges MC5 The Frost Ted Nugent Kid Rock Death Grand Funk Railroad Trash Brats Andrew WK Electric Six Geeks of the Week: Phillip Cook, Brian Bezotte, William Ortiz, Rolando Gonzalez, Jeff Barela, Dave Shirt, Bryan Hopkins, john Moutell, Joey Corigliano, Wally Norton, Roy Warthen, Matt Ashcraft, Chris Karam, Matt Bradshaw, Brandt Cattell, Jason Wood, Franklin Jackson Hudson, Rockin’ Ron Runyon, Justin Ace Sixx, Donna Spittle, Matt Syverson, Kevin Mataya, Joseph Ciambelli, Gino Ames, Brian Odermatt, David Alpizar, Spicoli, Miguel Nunez, Aaron Baker, Joe Lascon, Rich Meister Dillon, Mike Tyler, Colin Francis, Marc Taylor, Greg McGlone, The Riff of the Day, Dan Chaput, Joe Royland, Sit & Spin with Joe, Chad Pollock, Kevin Williams, Michael Bartley, Ages of Rock Podcast, Unknown elements, Obscure Rock & Metal, David Stonich, Kal Hinz, Andrew Jacobs, Derek Novak, Eric Reed, Antoni Espin Ufano, Eric Jeffreys, Corey Nowlin, Wayne Cross, Trevor McDougall, Andy Parker, Brent Tibbetts, Shane Hebert, Music is My Religion, Paul Korn, The Winery Dogs, Mikael Burrell, The Terrence & Marc Experience, Stealth, Podcasts Are The Best, Billy Hardcore, Ken Chase, Monte, Hoops, Adam Cox, TJ Cullen, Amanda Cagan, George Savastano, Bill Hale, Jay Fenhaus, Ernesto Aguilar, Pep Pep, Jay Motown Drummer, MusicMagsAndWax, Shane Stuckless, Basquiat518 Visit Our Sponsor! HK Collecitbles, Inc. (Specializing in hard to find music and movies as well as authenticated/graded entertainment and historical collectibles.) HK Collectibles , Inc. on Ebay Contact Us Rate, Review, and Subscribe in iTunes Join the Facebook Fan Page Follow on Twitter Follow on Instagram E-mail Us Subscribe to our Youtube channel! Call us on the Hotline! (540) DBGeek - 1 or (540) 324-3351 Support Us! Shop through our Amazon link! Donate to the show! Stream Us! Stitcher Radio Spreaker TuneIn Become a VIP Subscriber! Click HERE for more info! Comment Below Direct Download

Back in 2013, Aaron and Chris set out to do something big, something grand, something.....EPIC. And this week, they're back to do it again with The EPIC Episode 2. The EPIC Episode 2 Aaron and Chris return this week to bring you The EPIC Episode 2 featuring great rock and metal songs over 7 minutes long. This hour-plus episode features tons of great music from artists such as Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Thin Lizzy, Black Label Society, AC/DC, Monster Magnet, and MORE! Settle in, brace yourself, and enjoy The EPIC Episode 2! Geeks of the Week: John Carter, Dennis Gamez, Miguel Nunez, Steve True, Mike Stewart, Dave Shirt, Matt Ashcraft, Marc Alden Taylor, Joseph Ciambelli, Billy Hardaway, Ian Wadley (Rock and Metal Combat Podcast), Joe Vanchieri, Joe Royland, Sit & Spin with Joe, Paul Korn, Joe Lascon, Rockin’ Ron Runyon, Brandt Cattell, Derik Novak, Trevor McDougall, Wayne Cross, Todd Cunningham, Nick Tevelis, Colin Francis, Unknown Elements Obscure Rock & Metal, The Riff of the Day, Gino Ames, David Glynn, Justin Ace Sixx, Cobras & Fire Podcast, James Brendon Dunn, Andrew Jacobs, Adam Cox, Ernesto Aguilar, Viking Girl, hoops, All Over the Podcast, The Rockin’ Donkey, Daniel Chaput, Mikael Burrell, Jay Motown Drummer, Billy Hardcore, Nick Rose, Podcasts are the Best, TJCullen, The Mooger Fooger, The Terrence & Marc Experience, Bill Hale, Crobot, Jussi 69 Fansite, blackdemon69, The 69 Eyes, Kevin E. Williams, Jay Fenhaus, Viper Buy Music! Deep Purple White Lion Monster Magnet Iron Maiden Black Label Society AC/DC Led Zeppelin Thin Lizzy Visit Our Sponsor! HK Collecitbles, Inc. (Specializing in hard to find music and movies as well as authenticated/graded entertainment and historical collectibles.) HK Collectibles , Inc. on Ebay Contact Us! Rate, Review, and Subscribe in iTunes Join the Facebook Fan Page Follow on Twitter Follow on Instagram E-mail Us Subscribe to our Youtube channel! Call us on the Hotline! (540) DBGeek - 1 or (540) 324-3351 Support Us! Shop through our Amazon link! Donate to the show! Stream Us! Stitcher Radio Spreaker TuneIn Become a VIP Subscriber! Click HERE for more info! Comment Below Direct Download  

Shockwaves/HardRadio podcast #63: On this episode host Bob Nalbandian interviews Chuck Billy from Testament, Simon Wright (DIO, AC/DC, UFO, DIO Disciples), bassist Jerry Best and photojournalist Bill Hale reveals his upcoming metal photograph book.

While we don't typically delve deep into thrash territory on the Decibel Geek podcast, 2 bands that came out of California in the early to mid 1980's (one formed out of necessity to battle it out with the other), are truly a part of rock royalty and are the subject of our interview/discussion this week.  Metallica's 1981 lineup that included James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich, Cliff Burton, and lead guitarist Dave Mustaine was a true force to be reckoned with but politics and substance abuse caused it to be short-lived with the band unceremoniously canning Mustaine while on the road. Determined to exact revenge, Mustaine formed Megadeth in Los Angeles in 1983 with bassist Dave Ellefson.  With both bands releasing platinum albums and performing for sold out audiences across the globe, the rivalry remained pretty evenly matched between the groups until Metallica saw mainstream success with 1991's Metallica (aka The Black Album) shooting the band into a new strata for metal music. One could argue, though, that Megadeth have put out material that rivals, and in some cases exceeds, Metallica's output throughout the 1990's and 2000's. This week we take a hard look and listen to the early days of both bands as we chat with rock photographer Bill Hale. Hale was a photographer for Metal Rendezvous magazine in the early 1980's and shot photos of rock legends including KISS, Riot, UFO, and Black Sabbath. He was witness to the ascent of Metallica, as is recounted in his excellent photo book Metallica: Club Dayz 1982-1984 and thus, was in good company to witness the formation and launch of Megadeth which is chronicled in his new book Megadeth: Another Time, A Different Place.  In our conversation you will hear Bill share his stories of what it was like knowing Lars Ulrich when he was just a struggling drummer trying to make contacts in the Los Angeles area. Hear about James Hetfield's early stage fright which caused Dave Mustaine to be the voice between songs for many of Metallica's early shows.  Hale also shares his opinion of what took place when Mustaine was fired from Metallica and the politics that seemed to surround the situation. Interesting stuff here! With a thirst for blood, Dave Mustaine formed Megadeth and Bill shares his memories of the earliest days of the band and the rivalry that exists to this day. We also get his thoughts on the sad losses of both Cliff Burton and Gar Samuelson (of whom the new Megadeth book is dedicated). Aaron, Chris, and Bill also spin some of their favorite tracks from Metallica & Megadeth's first three albums throughout the conversation. It's a fun long-form discussion with a person that caught music history through the lens of his camera and forged friendships with highly diverse personalities that still captivate rock and metal fans to this day. It's time for some Metal up your......ears.

Thanks Bill for the Cool Interview. Go check out Mr. Bill Hale, this guy is a phogotographer who back in the glory days of true rock/metal shot the world's best, we're talking Alice Cooper, Kiss, Metallica, Motley Crue, Slayer, W.A.S.P...the list is endless, his work was published around the world in all the leading rock publications (Rolling Stone, Kerrang! etc..), his work needs to be seen and soon it will in the form of a new book entitled POWER SURGE, so do yourself a favour and go visit/add Bill over at his MySpace page and show some support for POWER SURGE...Make sure you check his work out whilst there, IT ROCKS!!!!!! http://www.myspace.com/photo_books_by_bill_hale

SHOCKWAVES/HARDRADIO Podcast #4: The Bay Area thrash-metal Podcast! Host Bob Nalbandian discusses the early '80s San Francisco metal scene with Bay Area metal pioneers John Strednansky and Bill Hale [former editor in chief and photo editor for the seminal '80s metal magazine Metal Rendezvous]. This episode also features a classic interview segment with System Of A Down from 1999, more classic metal guitar riffs and a phoner with metal expert Sherman P. White.