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The lessons that shape us often come from the places we never planned to go and the challenges we never expected to face. In this conversation, I speak with Eric Fisher about the experiences that shaped his approach to mental wellness, resilience, grief, and personal growth. Eric shares how martial arts taught him balance, self-control, and perseverance, and how those lessons now help him guide people through addiction recovery, relationship challenges, and life's hardest moments. We explore the realities of grief, the power of trust, the difference between inpatient and outpatient counseling, and why healing often begins with self-acceptance. Eric also discusses his books, including The Martial Art of Recovery and Buried Alive, revealing how personal experiences and family stories continue to shape his work. If you've ever faced loss, adversity, addiction, or the challenge of rebuilding after setbacks, I believe you will find both practical insights and encouragement in Eric's story. Highlights: 08:10 - Eric shares lessons learned from his FBI internship experience. 18:43 - A friend's crisis leads Eric and his wife to move to New Zealand. 23:38 - Martial arts becomes a foundation for recovery and mental wellness. 37:05 - Eric reflects on grief, loss, and the importance of support. 43:12 - Self-acceptance plays a critical role in addiction recovery. 50:26 - Couples learn to face problems together instead of against each other. About the Guest: Eric Fisher, a Canadian transplant, is a counselling therapist who resides in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Originally from Tennessee, he has over 15 years of experience working outpatient and inpatient treatment settings in the US and Canada. He has two books published at this time: The Martial Art of Recovery: Self-Mastery Practices to Subdue Addiction and Achieve Mental Wellness, and Buried Alive: Four Ways to Free Yourself from the Dirt. Eric is a master practitioner of Accelerated Resolution Therapy (ART) and is also trained in EyeMovement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR), both of which are evidence-based treatments for trauma. Eric's private practice, Recovery Arts Counselling, serves individuals, couples, and families both locally and remotely. In the past, Eric has supervised masters-level graduate students and counsellors early in their careers. He has won multiple awards for his screenwriting: The Departure - official finalist in biographical/historical genre - 2014 Beverly Hills Screenplay Contest. Only 16 Miles - Finalist - 2014 Horror Screenplay Contest. Universal Escapade (Finalist - Top 25) - WeScreenplay International Screenplay Competition. Hipster Z (co-written) - best feature screenplay - 2017 Action On Film International Film Festival. Hipster Z - Best horror/comedy Screenplay - 2017 International Horror Hotel Film Fest. Additionally, Eric has a black belt in two martial arts styles: American Kenpo and Wadō-ryū. One interesting thing about Eric is that he had the opportunity to be an intern with the FBI -- twice. Eric enjoys hiking and riding his bike outdoors, music concerts, tasting new food dishes to keep his taste buds guessing, travelling near and far, and meeting people. . Ways to connect with Eric: Website: https://www.recoveryartscounselling.com Linktree:  https://linktr.ee/ericfisherauthor  Instagram - @recoveryartscounselling - https://www.instagram.com/recoveryartscounselling/ @ericfisherwriter - https://www.instagram.com/ericfisherwriter Linkedin - Eric Fisher - www.linkedin.com/in/eric-m-fisher-5b83724a Facebook - Recovery Arts Counselling - https://www.facebook.com/RecoveryArtsCounselling About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:03 One of the biggest things holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe. Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Well, hello there, everyone. I am your host Michael Hinkson, and you have found the Unstoppable Mindset Podcast. Today, we get to chat with Eric Fisher, who is a rather interesting person. I believe he's a counseling therapist, he's a transplant, he now lives in Calgary, but he used to live in Tennessee, very similar. I'm sure we'll have to find out more about that, but I'm really glad that that you're here with us. Eric, welcome to Unstoppable Mindset. Eric Fisher  01:29 Yes, thank you for having me on, Michael. I appreciate it. Glad to be here. Michael Hingson  01:32 Well, I'm going to have to ask, how did you get from Tennessee to Calgary, besides by Claire? But you know, but Speaker 1  01:41 it's a bit to make a long story short. The wife, you know, yeah, she's from Calgary originally, so I surrendered up here. Michael Hingson  01:52 Yeah, well, is there a backstory that you want to tell? Speaker 1  01:57 You know, the quick version would be from Mississippi to New Zealand to Calgary, and that was over a span of, you know, two and a half years, and then finally to Calgary. After those other two places, was she Michael Hingson  02:10 with you during all of those? Mississippi, New Zealand, and then Calgary. Speaker 1  02:14 She was for the long haul. Yeah, yeah, she's experienced humidity and the dryness, all the extremes. Michael Hingson  02:24 When we moved to New Jersey in 1996 my wife didn't really want to go. She was a California native, but it was where the job had to take me, and it was either that or go find a new job, and I really didn't want to undertake a job search, because that's pretty traumatic. So, especially if you happen to be blind, because people think blind people really can't do stuff, and that's why the unemployment rate among employable blind people is in the 70% range. So the bottom line is that we moved to New Jersey, we were there for six years, and then of course the World Trade Center happened, which is kind of a dramatic way to allow us to get back to California, but it worked, so here we are. Speaker 1  03:05 Yeah, that is a lot of different places, and it's unfortunate with that percentage, right? Michael Hingson  03:10 Yeah, well, and she passed. She was in a wheelchair her whole life, and she passed in November of 2022 We were married 40 years, and I'm sure she's monitoring me from somewhere, so I work on continuing to be a good kid, because if I'm not, I'm going to hear about it somehow, Speaker 1  03:27 one way or another. There's, there's still some surveillance happening. There Michael Hingson  03:31 is, I am absolutely sure of it. Well, tell us kind of about the early era growing up, and all that. Speaker 1  03:37 Grew up in Arkansas, yeah, Newport, Arkansas, you know, grew up behind a Walmart in a small subdivision, and moved to Tennessee at an early age. I was around five years old, going over, going on six at the time, I believe, and so I understand what it means to kind of get uprooted from somewhere and place somewhere else, and my dad was in the medical profession, so that's the reason that we moved, and so that's a little bit about that. My mom's family is from Kansas City, so I really did enjoy going up to the city there and being with my mom's family during holiday seasons. That was really my only exposure to, like, a city, like an urban population, more than what I experienced anywhere else. So, and yeah, got one brother, played with him a lot, and a lot of it was being creative outside, getting outside and doing stuff, and having fun outside, you know, little bit different from a lot of kids today, perhaps. Michael Hingson  04:44 Yeah, well, it's also a lot scarier, I think, today, even though there's a lot of value in being outside. There are just so many crazy things going on. It's got to be scarier for kids, and certainly even more scary for parents, and they tend. To want to really monitor their, their children a lot more, and that's got us pluses, minuses, but it still has got to be really scary to let them just go outside. Speaker 1  05:09 Yeah, just, you know, looking at what's on the news and the possibilities of what could happen. Michael Hingson  05:16 Yeah, so where did you, or did you go to college? I assume you went to college. Speaker 1  05:22 I did. Yeah, I went to a small private Christian university in Tennessee called Freed Hardiman, and you know it was interesting because there's this whole thing about townies versus us being called freedies because of Freed Hardman. The course, the joke is, you know, free hardly because of the expense of going to the institution. Yeah. Michael Hingson  05:48 Well, with your experience and your observation in life, what do you think about going to a small college as opposed to a larger college? Speaker 1  05:55 I really enjoyed it, being from a rural area. I mean, it was a good transition for me, and just getting to know people I feel like might have been easier in a more rural setting, as opposed to urban. Michael Hingson  06:10 I went to University of California, Irvine, way back, starting in 1968 and when we started at UCI, there were like 25 2600 students, and I think when I graduated with my bachelor's, it was like a little over 3000 students, but I loved the fact that it was a smaller college. I think it was for me a lot better, and I, I really like the smaller college environment, and I understand why colleges have advantages when they're bigger, but by the same token, for students, if you want to really stand out, it's kind of harder to do with a big college. Well, and now University of California, Irvine, where I went to school, has 32,000 undergrads in it, Speaker 1  06:52 32,000 as opposed to the around, that's a huge jump from like 25 2600 yeah, Michael Hingson  07:00 yeah, and so it's, it's a huge place. I was there last a year and a half ago. I was invited to join. I couldn't do it as an as a student because the chapter was formed just as I was leaving, but Phi Beta Kappa, and they heard about me along the way, and I was invited to join as an alumni member back in 2024 So that's the last time I've been to UC Irvine. What a huge place! Speaker 1  07:29 Wow, yeah. Of course, UC Michael Hingson  07:30 Irvine, UCI really stands for Under Construction Indefinitely, so you know Speaker 1  07:38 they make that, they made that kind of humorous remark up here, with like winter and construction, that's the two seasons of Calgary. Yes, I totally get that. Michael Hingson  07:47 My brother-in-law lives in Sun Valley, Idaho, in Ketchum, and has been a skier for most of his life, and in the summer he's a master cabinet maker. Now he's a general contractor, but he's thinking about retiring, but in the winter everything goes by the wayside for skiing, Speaker 1  08:10 everyone's out on the slopes, you know. Well, and what he did Michael Hingson  08:12 to even make it more fun is he got his professional ski guide status in Europe and became a professional ski guide, taking people to do off-piece skiing in the French Alps, which is, Speaker 1  08:25 that's really nice, awesome. Michael Hingson  08:28 I love to, I love to say that I'm not gonna go skiing, because I know those trees are out to try to get me. Speaker 1  08:35 They start to grow their branches, you know? They just spring Michael Hingson  08:38 out at you when you're not looking. Speaker 1  08:40 Yes, I just.. Michael Hingson  08:42 I've never skied. I don't have anything against it. It's just not one of those things that I've done, but he enjoys it, and I'm sure it's a lot of fun to do. Speaker 1  08:51 Yeah, I can appreciate people that do. Michael Hingson  08:53 Yeah. Well, what did you do after college? Well, you got your undergrad, then you went on. Speaker 1  08:58 Yeah, so after my undergrad, I stayed at the university, and you know, I had a bachelor's in psych, and I was like, well, what do I do with this degree? And so I decided to move forward, since I didn't see too much availability, and did a master's in clinical mental health counseling, and during that time of my master's, I was able to intern with the FBI, which was a great opportunity. Michael Hingson  09:25 What caused you to do that? Speaker 1  09:28 I found, I mean, part of it was just a lot of curiosity, and of course, watching a lot of media and the work that they do. Yet I also found the possibility of implementing the psychology from a law enforcement angle on a federal level with this, so I did interning in my bachelor's FBI, that was really nice at a local office, and then later on in my master's at the FBI headquarters in DC, and just really interested in just the field and this the different. Psychological opportunities, Michael Hingson  10:02 you didn't stick with it, though. Or Speaker 1  10:05 I did the internships, I did the agent exam, and failed. Oh boy, just kind of had my time with it, and then moved on. It was a great experience. Michael Hingson  10:16 What you learned from it, the Speaker 1  10:19 importance of teamwork, the importance of community, the importance of intention to detail, and I can't say how I came to those, because then I have to bring up certain things that I can't talk about, but yeah, just the importance of being able to work with other people from other walks of life, and just seeing everyone's different perspectives is something that I learned, coming from, you know, small town, quite homogeneous, small university, and then being able to meet people from different parts of the country, even different territories, like Wall, it was, it was amazing to branch out and just have that life experience, Michael Hingson  11:06 get a lot of different experiences, and you saw how people in other parts of the world live, which obviously has to be an interesting perspective. Speaker 1  11:18 Yes, yes, it was really interesting, and just seeing how they think and their outlook on the world, and I had to take a polygraph examination for both internships, so the importance of honesty, and not that I didn't think honesty was important before, but definitely when you're under the microscope of being asked yes or no questions, it's an interesting experience. Michael Hingson  11:40 Yeah, well, I guess you must have passed the lie detector test. They didn't throw you away or put you in jail. Speaker 1  11:48 That's right. Neither of those happened. I did have one question asked of me that was a little bit ambiguous. It was coming up that I deceived. It's something that happened earlier in the day, and then they asked me about it, and then I said something that was not the truth, and then I explained the reasoning as to why. And then the agent was like, okay, thanks for letting me know, it's all good. It's like, okay, that's good. Michael Hingson  12:21 Yeah, they have to be pretty skilled interrogators to really be able to do that, and, and ask questions, and I, and I know no matter what's going on with the lie detector technology, they're observing you as well, so they're looking for things, and I suppose it's possible to fool the lie detector technology, but I know that it continues to get better too. Speaker 1  12:45 Yeah, and wondering if that's because, like, people are sociopaths, or they don't have any - they actually believe what they're saying. Yeah, yeah, Michael Hingson  12:54 I've never taken lie detector tests, but I know that for me, I'm not a good fibber, so I've got to tell the truth, and like I said, my wife's watching anyway, so I gotta always be a good kid. Speaker 1  13:06 If you were taking a lie detector test knuckle and you said something, you might get an invisible slap, like, oh, Michael Hingson  13:12 exactly, Speaker 2  13:13 okay, I get it, or Michael Hingson  13:16 a poke or something. Yeah, yeah, no. So, better, better to just be honest about it, but yeah, I understand what you're saying, but it is, it is fascinating. I'd love to experience taking a test sometime, but because I only understand all about it intellectually, having never seen it on television or anything like that, but by the same token, I'm glad that the technology exists, and I'm glad that the people do what they do, and I, I too very much believe in law enforcement. I believe in the value of the FBI and police, and so on. I took a couple of police-oriented courses when I was at UC Irvine. We had an engineering professor who was a reserve deputy sheriff, so we, we got to do ride-alongs, and even went down and visited the Orange County Jail once, and you know, because he, he said it all, so it's kind of fun to be able to do it, and I learned a lot and value that. Speaker 1  14:19 That's awesome. I'm glad you had that experience. Michael Hingson  14:21 Yeah, I think it's kind of cool to be able to have had that. So, you got a master's degree? Did you get a PhD? Speaker 1  14:29 No, you know, I was encouraged to do so, to pilot higher and deeper, as the PhD acronym goes. Yeah, and I just, I decided to not go that route. Michael Hingson  14:40 So, what did you do after you got your master's? Speaker 1  14:43 After the master's, I started to do well. I was doing my practicum during the master's, yet after the master's, I started to work primarily where I did my practicum in Mississippi and started actually doing counseling work. So I was doing what's called a mobile therapist. For this organization, where I would go to people's houses and speak with people, do counseling work, which was pretty cool. I got to be out in the community, meet a lot of folks, made confidentiality sometimes a little bit of a challenge, small town. And then two days a week I was in the office, doing whoever came in through the clinic, so I was in the, I was in the work, I was in the grind, just doing what I had been trained to do. Definitely learning on the job, though, for sure. Michael Hingson  15:27 Where in Mississippi, Speaker 1  15:29 Corinth, Mississippi, which is like right at the state line. Yeah, they actually have a road called State Line Road, where houses on one side, North or Tennessee houses on the other side have Mississippi license plates. Michael Hingson  15:45 That's pretty funny. In New Jersey, when we lived there, there were a number of streets in towns that had a very interesting environment, and that is that every town had its own tax base. There wasn't a statewide thing for property taxes and everything else, or for a lot of taxes, so every town had its own, and you could be on a street where someone may pay 1213, $14,000 a year in taxes, and if you lived on the other side of the street, you were in a different town, and your taxes were like 4800 $5,000 Speaker 1  16:24 Whoa, no, Michael Hingson  16:26 it's crazy. Speaker 1  16:27 That is a sheer difference. Michael Hingson  16:30 It is a huge difference, and the other thing that that we experienced is that a lot of the the work is done by lawyers when you're closing a house, for example. Back there, they didn't really have escrow, was all done through attorneys, and so on. And some of those people were involved in the tax stuff as well. It's kind of a very fascinating and interesting place to be, certainly different than what we experienced in California. Speaker 1  16:57 Yes, that sounds like a very, very different type of experience, for sure. Wow, wow. Okay, Michael Hingson  17:04 but you know things happen. Well, so you, you started doing counseling and therapy, and as you said, and I can appreciate how it must have been difficult sometimes from a confidentiality standpoint, because it is a small town and people overhear or talk about, and that's not always a good thing. Speaker 1  17:24 Yeah, you know, things like that come up. You know, you hear the whispers, and one time I was actually trying to find a place in a lower-income part of town, and I was doing circles in the neighborhood, and a police cruiser started to follow me, and so I stopped my car, got out with my credentials, towed the towed the police officer who I worked for, and then he was just kind of like, oh, okay, carry on. So, did Michael Hingson  17:46 you ask him for directions? Speaker 1  17:49 You know what, I did not know, like that would have made sense. I'm trying to look at find this house, never. Oh, over there, sir? Okay, but no, I did not. Michael Hingson  18:05 So, how long were you in Mississippi? Then Speaker 1  18:09 I was in Mississippi from around 2009 to 2013 I want to say, we left. We left for New Zealand for the whole year 2013 so no, 2012 sorry, the end of 2012 so about three and a half, three or so years. Okay, yeah. How did you Michael Hingson  18:33 meet your wife in all this Speaker 1  18:34 online? Yeah, back when it was clandestine, like you met somebody online, are they an ax murderer? Can you trust them? Do you need to get references, which she did. Yeah, yeah. And we checked you out, huh? She checked me out for sure. She even called people that I gave references for. And then we courted for two and a half years. And then after that, tied the knot in Tennessee, moved to Mississippi. Well, she moved to Mississippi, where I was already living, and yeah, we were there until we went to New Zealand about 10 months later. Michael Hingson  19:06 So she was living in Tennessee at the time, Speaker 1  19:09 she was up here in Calgary, or she was in Calgary. Michael Hingson  19:12 Okay, Speaker 1  19:12 we, we got married in Tennessee, Michael Hingson  19:14 okay. Well, that's that's cool though. What, what prompted the trip and moving to New Zealand for a year, I've been there, and I actually spent three weeks there, and very much enjoy it. Speaker 1  19:28 Whereabouts? Well, I wanted to ask, all over New Michael Hingson  19:30 Zealand, I mean, I was there with the Royal New Zealand Foundation of the Blind. They asked me to come and speak in 2003 talk about September 11, and so on, and they were trying to raise funds, so we helped them raise something like over $375,000 in a three week period, and literally I had 21 speaking events in 13 days all over both islands. Speaker 1  19:55 Wow, that's that's a, that's a lot of speaking events, and a certain amount of days. Days you've been, you probably been close more than I've been, more places than I've been. So, what, what prompted the move was a friend of mine I had made previously being there. He reached out to me through just electronic media. He was having a spiritual emergency, and he asked me, he asked me to come to come help him, and so I just said, "Sure, let's do it. My wife and I left the rental unit, the rental house where we were staying, and left furniture behind, two cars behind, appliances, and we just, just left him, or there for 13 months, didn't look, didn't look back. Michael Hingson  20:45 Did you spend any time in Dunedin while you were there? Speaker 1  20:49 We didn't spend any time in Dunedin. We weren't only there for like a week when we did some vacation time. Michael Hingson  20:57 Yeah, I, they gave me literally a half, three quarters of a day off from speaking. In fact, they said you can play in Dunedin, and so we were there, and it was one, I guess, was a one full day. They had some unique toys to play with in New Zealand. They had a thing called a bungee rocket. Have you ever heard of that? Speaker 1  21:22 A bungee rocket. No. So, Michael Hingson  21:24 you know what bungee cords are, and you stretch them out and all that. Well, the bungee rocket, you attach bungee cords to this platform, this cage, but the bungee cords are attached to a device way up high, and then they're also attached to this plat, this cage, then they pull the cage down, and they fasten it, so the bungee cords are very stretched, and then people get in, and they sit down, and they fasten seat belts, and then when everybody's all secure, they loose the platform, and the bungee cords pull this thing up like a rocket. Speaker 1  22:01 Whoa, yeah. I wasn't about to do that. I was with someone who Michael Hingson  22:05 did, and he came off apparently as white as a sheet. He said, "I'm never gonna do that. Speaker 1  22:10 It was a one and done experience for him. It was Michael Hingson  22:16 for me. It was, "I'm not gonna do that, brother. And I had my guide dog, and somebody would have held the dog, but I wouldn't do that. I have other memories, which are more fun, I think, and probably for me more pleasurable. Speaker 1  22:31 Yeah, one of the things we did down on the South Island was some knife making, and it was really.. it was something I surprised my family with. They didn't know we were doing that day, and this guy was hilarious. I mean, something straight out of a documentary about New Zealand, as far as, like, locals, you would see he had a witty sense of humor, and he would, he would like, finish off the knives for us after we did the preliminary steps, just to make them look nice. Yeah, that was one of my favorite memories down there. Michael Hingson  23:00 Wow, yeah, I've, I've got a lot of memories, even though it was back in 2003 so 22 years, 22 and a half years, but I love the memories, and love being down there was a wonderful place, Speaker 1  23:13 awesome, so that was pretty cool. Well, so you, you came back, and, and you eventually ended up in, in Calgary, which is, which is great. So, what do you do now? Got a few hands in a few honey jars. I have a private practice for the counseling. I work for a retreat center company out of a place called Brad Creek, called Vita Wellness. I work for a nonprofit up in a place called Erdrie as a consultant. I work for a clinic remotely that's in the city as an associate. Am I forgetting anything? I think that's the main ones right now. Also, work doing like couples therapy for a relationship-based app. Yeah, so that's a lot of people that are in the States, there. So, it's yeah, few things to keep me busy. Speaker 3  24:13 If you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the unstoppable mindset community, Michael Hingson  24:47 they do well. You also write Speaker 1  24:50 that as well. Yeah, Michael Hingson  24:52 you've written a couple of books, and I guess you've also done some screenwriting and all that, and love to hear more about all that. Tell. You bought your books. Speaker 1  25:01 Yeah, the first book that I published, self-published, and that was two years ago now. That was called, that is called The Martial Art of Recovery: Self Mastery Practices to Subdue Addiction and Achieve Mental Wellness. Say three times real fast. So, yeah, that book is all about the intersection of martial arts concepts with addiction and mental health treatment, so that has personal experiences, and my times in the martial arts, and also I just bring in like holistic health techniques, and also I get some interviews, some of them are a little bit shorter than others, but at least some some chunks from people that I know in different disciplines, different fields, like an old martial arts teacher, a medicine family medicine doctor here in the Calgary area, people like that. So that was that was about a 14 month writing experience before it was published. Michael Hingson  25:57 When was it published? Speaker 1  26:00 Back in March of 2023 Michael Hingson  26:05 Okay, not your first book. Speaker 1  26:07 Not that's my first book. Yes, Michael Hingson  26:09 yeah, Speaker 2  26:10 yeah. Michael Hingson  26:12 What do you, what do you think of being an author and the whole experience of writing? Speaker 1  26:19 There was not. there was a lack of faith, for sure. I had a really difficult time, even acknowledging, "Hey, this is something I could do. Had a lot of self-doubt, and so even the process I found pretty daunting, pretty, like pretty challenging, for sure. And I do enjoy the process. It's like a double helix, though. I, I enjoy it, yet it kind of puts the screws to me, as far as enjoyment, but also challenge, yet I do enjoy the experience and being able to get my voice out there, yet I listen to someone else talk about publishing, and the person said, you know what, when you publish it, now it's that person's turn to take it on and they can make it their own, Michael Hingson  27:04 yeah. Speaker 1  27:04 So I found that to be a really cool way to look at it. So yeah, and I enjoy it. It's been, it's been good, it's been fun. Michael Hingson  27:13 And then you wrote a second book, Speaker 1  27:15 I did. Yeah, that one's called Buried Alive: Four Ways to Free Yourself from the Dirt. It's a lot more personal, I think, because it is about a true story that happened to my dad, and something that was quite harrowing for him, which, yes, as the book title suggests, is what happened, and part of the book is about the interviews I did with the three men involved with this very scary incident back in February of 2000 so 25 years now, and talks about their different perspectives on what happened that day when they were digging for Native American artifacts, arrowheads, and I bring in some self-help concepts that apply to what happened that day, and also just for anyone that's looking to bring those into their own lives, Michael Hingson  28:03 what happened? Speaker 1  28:05 Yeah, so they were digging at what's called an overhang, which is like a cliff face that shuts out small little, I don't know if you would even call it a cave, but there was a place underneath the overhang that kind of came in anyway, when Native Americans would come to an area, they wouldn't ever bring dirt out, they would always bring dirt in, and so there was so much dirt that was piled up over the years that my dad and the people that were digging with him, I was there six months to the day before this incident happened, we would, we would have to dig, they would dig to get to their arrowheads that were quite far down underneath the dirt, Michael Hingson  28:46 yeah, Speaker 1  28:47 yeah, yeah, and so this unfortunate day, my dad was in a hole, probably I don't know, eight or nine feet, and a little dirt fell on him, and you know, he kind of joked with his friend Jason, who was further up this hall, and a few seconds later all that dirt just came in, just, just quickly, automatically. He was vanished without a trace, and then a big rock came down on that dirt. If it wasn't for that third person that decided to come that very morning, they did not come before. His name's Jerry. Then I'm sure that my dad would have died, Michael Hingson  29:25 because Speaker 1  29:25 there was no way that Jason, who also was stuck up to like his knee in dirt, could have got out in time to get the rock and then to unearth my dad. So, Michael Hingson  29:39 yeah, a fascinating book. Now, you, you self-published that one as well. Speaker 1  29:43 I did, didn't wait around, just went ahead, and yeah. Michael Hingson  29:49 Do you have other books in you? Speaker 1  29:51 I have one done. I needed to get it edited, and editorial reviews, and get my book cover designer over in Italy to do her magic. She did on the last two books, so yeah, I do have one in the, in the oven. Michael Hingson  30:05 Can you tell us a little about what it will be about, or what it's called, or anything? Speaker 1  30:08 Sure, the book right now is called I'm Listening, and it's all about my experiences, my pitfalls, my learnings as a therapist, and so it's a bit of a memoir of my professional work in the field, and some, some personal experiences. Michael Hingson  30:25 I think one of the most powerful things about books, especially when you're, when you're dealing with more nonfiction, because fiction books usually have stories with them, but a lot of nonfiction books don't really provide enough, I think, of a personal inroad to the individual who wrote the book. One of my big beliefs, one of my pet peeves, is I think textbooks are so boring, like physics. My master's degree is in physics, and I maintain that the big problem is that none of the physics professors who are writing all these books ever put anything in about their own personal experiences to really get people excited because of of their their stories and what they can teach through their stories. It's just all math and equations and and words, just about the physics, but never the other part. I think that textbooks would be better if they put some stories in them, Speaker 1  31:22 I think. So, too, I think people's eyes wouldn't come out of their sockets, and they wouldn't, you know, be comatose. You know, they can actually keep up, and they can be engaged and involved with the material. Yeah, Michael Hingson  31:35 I had a colleague when we were at UC Irvine. We were in the same physics class together, and he had this one book, and he noticed that there didn't seem to really be any typos or whatever in it, and he meticulously, through the whole quarter, went through that whole book, and I think he finally found one misspelled word, and he was so proud of both that there were there were no others other than the one, but that he found one misspelled word we do with our lives. Speaker 1  32:07 What people do sometimes for kicks. Well, I'm glad. I wonder where that word was. Like, did he go through the whole book, and it's like on the last page, or you know, where is that at? It was Michael Hingson  32:22 near the end, but it wasn't on the last page, but it was.. it was.. it took him a long time to find it. Speaker 1  32:29 I wanted to do that with my first book. I could have easily done a book about the intersection of martial arts themes with, you know, mental wellness, but I mean, why not? I mean, I had that experience for over four years in the martial arts. Why not do that? Michael Hingson  32:48 So, tell me about that. You've mentioned martial arts several times, so obviously you've had some involvement with martial arts. Speaker 1  32:54 I have. Yeah, so when I was a preteen, I got a black belt in what's called a Water Rule Karate, so it's like W A D O R Y U, and when I was a teenager, like 16 to 18, I was doing what's called American Campo, and that did have a little bit of Jiu Jitsu thrown into the mix, Michael Hingson  33:16 so what prompted the interest in doing that Speaker 1  33:20 first was my dad, you know, part of my family was interested, so the guy, why not? And I don't know at that time whether I was experiencing bullying. Unfortunately, I experienced bullying like going to church before church started, which was unfortunate, say. So I mean, I think it was just a really good experience for me, looking back for balance and discipline in that way, and getting to meet people in the community. I can't, I can't initially remember what prompted that. My dad was interested, my brother was too, so was I. And then when I was 16, I was like, let's pick it up, let's do something different, let's try something new, and so we were able to go to this really small outfit, which was called the Snake Pit at the time, very different from the more like larger dojo in the community from my early years. Michael Hingson  34:14 What has being involved with the martial arts done to help you or to you or for you in dealing with mental wellness and the whole issue of what you do today. How is martial arts affecting all of that? Speaker 1  34:35 Yeah, it's a really good question. Martial arts showed me the importance of balance when we're doing sparring, when we're doing more, so when we're doing training on techniques, I can't be too far away when I'm sparring someone, because then it's not natural, it's not organic, nor, but I can be so close that I might hit them, so there needs to be some type of balance and self control, and that's. Something else, as well as being out of some self control. Yeah, Michael Hingson  35:05 well, martial arts is, I understand, it seems to me, as much about your mental being as learning physical techniques, because there is a whole lot that really comes down to how you approach it mentally. Am I correct? Speaker 1  35:24 Yeah, there's a big piece when it comes to stamina. When I was doing sparring, I actually had to find a place between being so passive, but also not being super aggressive. Like, how do I get that mental, emotional stamina to do this powering, you know, in a way that was quite balanced. Yes, but there is a lot when it comes to being in touch with my body, being in touch with where my mind is, with focus, with being not beating myself up, not really being perfect, or trying to achieve perfection. Yet, there's a certain vulnerability that comes with that in the mind, and also when it comes to the body, Michael Hingson  36:06 how so Speaker 1  36:10 well, there's vulnerability just simply with doing different techniques, because if you don't, if you don't like being touched, then it's going to be really difficult, because there's often a lot of touch happening, and and when it comes to the mind, it's there's vulnerability with putting myself out there and being seen by others, because we're often watching one another with training, and so there is this piece around vulnerability around, hey, you know what, whatever they think, okay, they can think I'm still working on this technique, Michael Hingson  36:40 mm and it, and it does, as you grow mentally with, with martial arts, I'm sure that it also helps in terms of your resilience. Speaker 1  36:55 Resilience plays a key factor, indeed, because you know, when it comes to even with sparring, you know, getting hit, I can't just kind of, oh, I got hit and I want to go back and I want to go in the corner. Well, no, I've got to keep going. Yeah, gotta keep moving, gotta keep walking and deflecting, and you know, going with the punches. And I, there was one experience with a young man, at least two years younger than me, he was a silver glove boxer, like a champion silver glove, and there had to be some resilience for me there, because I was getting clobbered, I was getting, I was getting hit over and over, because he was using a boxing type of, you know, boxing moves I wasn't used to defending against, and he was quick, and there comes a certain level of humility when it comes to being in the martial arts as well, because there's going to be experiences like that. Michael Hingson  37:49 Well, did you eventually get to the point where you could defend yourself against him? Speaker 1  37:55 He wasn't there for too long. Yeah, the more yet, the more that I was able to work with him, the more I was able to, you know, understand a little bit more where he was coming from with the moves, Michael Hingson  38:05 right. Well, in your life and all the things that you've done, have you experienced grief in any way? And kind of, what was that? Speaker 1  38:14 Yeah, there was a moment, there wasn't an issue when it came to a disenfranchised loss. My wife had a silent miscarriage, and so that was pretty brutal. How that turned out for her, and vicariously for me, and seeing her go through that really difficult, emotionally painful situation was hard. And so I mean, I've sure I've lost all but one grandparent at this point, and I did lose some child, like one childhood friend, when I was 16 to a car accident that was pretty brutal. Yet this loss was, yeah, was really difficult, because it's something that a lot of people don't understand, they don't want to talk about, they don't know what to say, or it's really difficult just to listen, and that was hard. Michael Hingson  39:09 Yeah, but at the same time, as you well know, from all that you've experienced, God doesn't give us things that we can't handle, and we have to learn to move forward Speaker 1  39:22 with resilience, with God's help. Michael Hingson  39:24 Yeah, Speaker 1  39:24 yeah, with prayer, perseverance. Yeah, Michael Hingson  39:27 I lost my father, actually, on November 1 of 1984 and my mother in May of 1987 and then my brother actually developed breast cancer in 2011 and they, they dealt with it, and he went into remission, but it came back, and he didn't take care of himself very well, as I understand it, because he lived in Florida, and we were in California, but anyway, it came back, and it metastasized, and so we lost him in 2015 so at the same time. Yeah, there were relatives on my wife's side that we lost a couple very unexpectedly, and yeah, you do learn to deal with grief, but you learn that you got to go forward, and so when Karen passed in 2022 at least it wasn't totally all of a sudden, so I had some time to prepare, but you know, I still miss her, and I wouldn't want it any other way. Speaker 1  40:23 Yeah, for sure. I, and I mean, losing your parents around two and a half or so years apart, and with your brother, and then with your wife, that's a lot. That's a lot. Yet I hear that even though there was some preparation time for you, it can still be, it can still be difficult, it can still hit the nail, you know. I was doing some grief work, a grief course, and they showed us this poem called Whose Whose Grief Is Worse, basically. And there were these two experiences of someone that lost someone suddenly and someone that knew, and at the end of the poem. Basically, it's both are painful. There is no worse grief. Michael Hingson  41:05 There's no, there's no wrong or right answer to all of that. It's, it's different, but we all can learn to deal with it. I know when the events of September 11 happened, for me, ironically, the greatest blessing I had was that the media got my story and we started getting a lot of requests for interviews and my wife and I decided we would accept them and I got asked so many questions by so many different reporters, some dumb questions were absolutely stupid, idiotic questions, but some that were very insightful, and so I probably was able to move on from that day much more because of all of the questions and getting used to dealing with those questions than anything else that could have come along. It Speaker 1  41:58 was a choice, and you probably appreciated those reporters that took the time to ask those carefully planned questions. Michael Hingson  42:06 I've had some people, no matter how many times the story gets repeated, who still say, "What were you doing in the World Trade Center, anyway? And I'm sitting there going, "Have you read Thunderdog? Have you read any of the stories in the press? What do you mean, what was I doing in the World Trade Center? Speaker 1  42:23 It's not like, you know, it's out there, you know, it's been published, you can read it. Yeah, Michael Hingson  42:30 I wasn't a spy for the terrorists, I can tell you that. Speaker 1  42:36 I wouldn't, I wouldn't have thought that for a second, Michael Hingson  42:41 but but, but you know, things happen, and you never know where you're going to be, you never know what might come up, and it's just one of those things that we, we all really need to deal with in one way or another, and that's just what's so important. Speaker 1  42:56 Absolutely, you know, one of the quotes I heard from my training was, and I take it with me, and I, I definitely relate to it personally. Is joy shared is joy doubled, and grief shared is grief halved, and the stuff we're doing, even today, and even those listening that might have been through grief, is as long as we're able to talk about it, and just talk about something that does not make any sense whatsoever to us, that's part of the healing process. Michael Hingson  43:23 Yeah, it's important to talk about it. It's important to share, and I understand you want to be careful. You don't want to just talk necessarily about it with anyone, but you do need to find people that you can share with and that you can talk to about Speaker 1  43:39 it. Totally, yeah, the grocery store clerk, you know, that I'm getting my bread and butter from, maybe they're not ready for that, that particular topic, Michael Hingson  43:48 yeah, Speaker 1  43:48 yeah, Michael Hingson  43:50 and and the thing that we all need to do is to really, I think, do a lot more to listen to our inner voice, it'll tell us what we need to do if we listen, Speaker 1  43:58 yes, I believe that for sure, I've seen, I've seen that. Yeah, Michael Hingson  44:03 so you've dealt with all the, this, the psychological work that you do. You dealt with addiction, and so on. How does martial arts play into that? What have you learned from martial arts that helps you in dealing with recovery from addiction? Speaker 1  44:16 Oh, well, where to start. I think that one piece to really focus on is this concept of self love, and I don't mean self love like I'm better than other people out there, but just being okay with where I'm at for myself, but still pushing myself to learn new things, so some acceptance about where I'm at when it comes to martial arts, that has to be there. I might not be doing the technique perfectly, and I, there was times where I could really easily beat myself up mentally, like, "Oh, why can't I get this? Yet it's just trying to take a step back and see that I'm worthy enough to make the. Approach to make these changes when it comes to addiction. I'm worthy enough to seek out help. These feelings I have that they're okay to feel, and I don't have to beat myself up for this. Michael Hingson  45:11 Yeah, because addiction is is a disease, and I think anyone who condemns somebody just because, for example, they use drugs, and, well, they shouldn't do that. They're dumb for doing it. They really miss assess what's going on. Speaker 1  45:28 People that have that mindset that it's more of a mere choice, they don't understand that if you put, you know, a shot of alcohol in front of someone and you tell them not to drink it, and you put a gun on them, they're going to be wondering, maybe he'll slip his hand off the trigger, you know, that kind of thinking, that's that's the disease aspect. And I recommend anybody that wants to know more about addiction being a disease, check out Kevin McCauley's documentary, Pleasure Unwoven. It's a really good documentary that shows the different aspects of the disease. Yeah, Michael Hingson  46:08 I have never taken drugs in that way, and don't want to, but again, that's my choice, and I've learned enough from other people that I know that if, if I'm having a problem, taking drugs isn't going to help me solve the problem, and it isn't going to even really help me hide from it, but I guess that's just my makeup that I know that I have to face whatever comes along head on. Speaker 1  46:33 Yes, the resilience piece, Michael Hingson  46:36 the resilience piece, and I've wanted to do that. Speaker 1  46:39 Awesome, I can see with everything you've been through, Michael, you've definitely lent in, you've leaned in, you've pushed forward. Michael Hingson  46:47 Well, I think that part of the issue is as a, as a blind person who's faced a lot of challenges and seen things, what I choose to do whenever anything happens to me is I want to learn from it, so I don't want to ignore it, even if it's something that's totally not related to me in any way. I want to learn from it, if I'm involved, because I think that's the only way I'm going to be able to make sure that I deal with anything like that, any kind of surprise. The next time I talk about a lot when I am talking to people about blindness, about surprises, and I talk about the fact that I could be crossing a street, I could get to the corner and listen to the traffic, and when I hear the traffic going the way I want to go, then I'll cross the street. So I start crossing a street, and all of a sudden I hear a car from behind me, and it's not going the way I want to go, suddenly it's, it's turning, or there's somebody that is is across the street from me, not the way I'm going, and I start to cross the street when it's supposed to be my turn, and they decide they're going to go, and so I am, I've learned to constantly be alert, but at the same time, what I have to do is figure out very quickly, do I want to go forward or do I want to go backwards to have the best chance of getting away from this, Speaker 1  48:11 which way do I move in my direction with my spatial awareness with your spatial awareness, and that, and that brings me to another, I think, actually, another piece with martial arts and how it intersects is treating the addiction like an opponent that may be sauntering around that corner at any moment in time, and being able to see that I need to be on the alert, I need to know more than one direction, as you mentioned a moment ago, more than one direction that I could go, rather than just the free, the ability to have choice. Yeah, Michael Hingson  48:51 can addiction truly be cured? Not the reason I asked the question is I know so often I hear when I hear people talking about alcoholism, you can't really cure alcoholism, and maybe that's true. I don't know, Speaker 1  49:10 you know, it depends on how you ask, from a medical standpoint, from a disease standpoint, since we see it as a chronic progressive primary condition, which means nothing necessarily causes it every time. The answer would be no, because of its progression. However, can it can addiction, whether it's alcoholism, whatever, be stunted as far as its progression? Absolutely. Can be, can people live fulfilling lives? Absolutely. Can there be reversal of certain symptoms and signs. Yes, however, just I think that to say, you know, one day someone's gonna wake up and they no longer have cravings or the warning signs or the the neurobiology. Logical strings, it's tough to say that's a no. Michael Hingson  50:04 Yeah, thanks. That's the makeup of the individual that brings that about. I, I have.. I take an occasional drink. In fact, Karen and I used to have a drink on Friday night, one drink, and I kind of honor her by having a bourbon and seven every Friday night when I make, when I cook dinner, but one, because I've never been a great fan of the taste of alcohol, but I understand there are a lot of people who really like the taste of it, and that has led them into pretty dark places, which is unfortunate. Speaker 1  50:36 Yeah, still Michael Hingson  50:37 happens. Speaker 1  50:38 It does still happen, for sure. And I appreciate you liking bourbon. We make a bourbon walnut ice cream, and I don't ever drink the bourbon by itself. It's been in the cupboard for months now. And anyway, Michael Hingson  50:55 well, my bourbon and seven is a whole lot more seven up than bourbon. Speaker 1  50:59 Totally right, and good for you for having that ritual, you know, for you and for Michael Hingson  51:06 her. That's kind of neat to be able to do that, but I've just never felt that I need to, and I'm, and I'm glad. So it's continuing to share that. Well, you do a lot of couples therapy. How does all that go, and what kind of challenges does that make for you and for them? Speaker 1  51:29 Well, I'll give you this short story. We were eating at Denny's with this man, and just a friend of a friend, and he said to us, he asked me about my work, and I told him, yeah, I'm working with, you know, a lot of addiction, and with couples, he's like, I heard from another counselor, Eric, that if you really want to make it hard on yourself, you work in addiction, and you work with couples that always make it have a challenge, and, like, yeah, true. And so, when it comes to working with couples, it is challenging. There's something about having two people to work with, there's so many dynamics at play, different than perhaps being with just one person, you know, coming from two different histories, biographically different life upbringings, family upbringing, personalities. It can be really challenging. I do appreciate challenge. I've learned so much. I learned from each couple that I work with, and it's a whole different beast. Michael Hingson  52:29 Yeah, and, and it is. I like what you said, though. You learn from it, and that's probably the most important thing that any of us can do with anything in any endeavor that we undertake is that we learn from it. Speaker 1  52:44 If I can't learn from something, what am I, what am I doing there? And if I'm not learning from something, how can that benefit other people that I'm trying to help support? So, yeah, I tried to get the couple to start to be, you know, them versus the concern, rather than you versus me. That's a big goal of couples therapy. Michael Hingson  53:08 That's an interesting way to put it. That makes a lot of sense. I've never thought of it that way, but it's them. It does have to be them, but them versus the concern. That, that's interesting. Speaker 1  53:18 Yeah, yeah. Then they start, they start looking at how can we collaborate rather than trying to annihilate each other. Michael Hingson  53:26 Yeah, Speaker 1  53:27 metaphorically speaking, Michael Hingson  53:31 so you've talked about the work that you did when you were in Mississippi, when you worked in small towns, and so on, and you worked in probably some fairly substantive places as well. What do you find that's different about outpatient versus inpatient work, and in terms of what you do and how you approach it? Speaker 1  53:52 Well, I'll just say that doing inpatient work is kind of like raising kids, so not.. I mean, I don't have any experience, because I don't, I don't have kids, I got nieces and nephews yet. I know that feeling well. Yeah, there's just something about being around someone more than just like that hour, hour and a half, seeing them like eight or nine hours a day, you get to know them pretty well, as opposed to, you know, once an hour every one or two, three weeks, that in that comes some benefits with the inpatient work. Yet also it can be really difficult when it comes to boundaries. They feel like you can do things that maybe you're not able to do professionally with them, maybe like as far as like self-disclosure wise or things like that, and there's just there's just a thing around boundaries, and even with the inpatient work, you know, I'll have one client come and say, 'Hey, this other counselor said I could do this, and I would be like, 'Okay, and then I found out later the counselor didn't say that at all, so there's that type. The drama got to deal with, with it, with the inpatient work, Michael Hingson  55:04 but you don't find that as much without patient, because you tend to be able to get closer to the individual, and that probably also develops a higher trust level. Speaker 1  55:14 There is a higher trust level if you mean, like, doing outpatient work, or outpatient, but we have the outpatient, for sure, because I am solely with them, and they know that time is of the essence, whether it's weekly or bi-weekly, whatever, and I'm being able to focus on them, for sure, yeah, Michael Hingson  55:35 and it's a lot harder to do that when it's an impatient kind of situation Speaker 1  55:40 in my two experiences, both up in Calgary and also Mississippi, with inpatient, there's so many other things in the inner workings of doing inpatient going on that sure I can still add that time with somebody, yet I'm also thinking about, you know, the next class and next group offering other logistical duties, it's a little bit easier to do that one on one. Yeah, indeed, indeed. Michael Hingson  56:10 Do you think that you can develop? I assume the answer is yes, but I'll ask, do you think that it's possible to develop the same level of trust in doing inpatient work, or it may be harder, but can you do it? Speaker 1  56:28 That can happen on a case by case basis, depending on my relationship with someone. Yes, I can get there, and you know, just.. and sometimes, paradoxically, it can happen even quicker than outpatient, depending on the situation, because I am with them. There is a positive with that. Yes, Michael Hingson  56:48 it's.. it's a matter of working to build it, you know. And, unfortunately, human beings, especially nowadays, are so mistrustful of so many things, we've learned not to trust, and so in my latest book, Live Like a Guide Dog, I talk about that a lot, because while I think dogs love unconditionally, they don't trust unconditionally, but they're open to trust, they want to develop trusting relationships, and we just assume everyone has their own hidden agendas, and it's so hard to develop trusting relationships, Speaker 1  57:24 very hard, very difficult. It takes time and effort and patience, tolerance for myself, the other person, and that makes sense with dogs, because I mean, enough's, you know, when a dog's been abused, they don't want to trust right away, no, for sure. Michael Hingson  57:38 Well, but even even dogs that aren't abused, like I believe it takes for me, and I think if you really analyze it, for most people with a guide dog, I think it takes a good year to develop such a working relationship that you develop such a trust that essentially you each know what the other is thinking and you really know how to work it. It's not that they're not mistrustful, but they're open. They're open to trust, but you've got to, you've got to gain their trust, and that's my job as the team leader. And I'm supposed to be the team leader, but it also means that I have to agree, well, earn or gain their trust. The neat thing, and what makes it possible to do that, assuming that you approach it the right way and don't assume a dog is just a dumb animal, which they're not, is that in fact working with a dog, you know that they're more likely to be open to trust, and that makes it a little bit easier than our prejudice that says everybody's got a hidden agenda that we got to focus on, Speaker 1  58:47 yeah. And appreciate you sharing that, and it shows just the amount of work that comes into play with trust. Michael Hingson  58:54 Yeah, it's it's a challenge, but it is doable. Well, so what's next for you? Speaker 1  59:01 Yeah, just doing some work after this with the work that I do, and yeah, it's starting to get that book into the place of having editorial reviews and starting to get that edited professionally. Michael Hingson  59:14 Have either of your books been converted to audio? Speaker 1  59:17 The second one has. Yes. Michael Hingson  59:22 Is it? Where is it available? Audible, or how is it available? Speaker 1  59:25 It's my own special design. It's actually got a, it's got a Texan man, a doing it. He's got a nice voice, pretty soothing. Yet it's through what's called the Hero app, H I R O. And I can send you the link if you're interested. For that, Michael Hingson  59:40 love to, yeah, Speaker 1  59:42 yeah. Michael Hingson  59:44 Well, this has been enjoyable, certainly by any standard. If people want to reach out to you, maybe use your services or talk with you. How do they do that? Speaker 1  59:53 They can find me, Michael, through Recovery Arts counseling.com and that's Counseling with 2l's since I'm up here in Canada. You can find me through Instagram at Eric Fisher Writer or Recovery Arts Counseling. You can find me Facebook the same way on LinkedIn, just type in my name. You can look for, like, Calgary, like counselor recovery counseling. What do else? That's right, everybody learned something new today, if they did not, if they didn't already. So, those are a few Michael Hingson  1:00:25 ways. Well, that's great. Well, I really appreciate you taking the time to be here, and I value greatly your insights. I've learned things, and I always enjoy doing that. And I hope all of you out there listening have as well. Love to get your thoughts, so I'd love to hear from you. Feel free to email me at Michael M I C H A E L H I at Accessi B A C C E S S I B e.com Wherever you're listening or watching, or both, this podcast, please give us a five star review. But even more important than a review, a rating, five star rating, give us a review. We really value reviews and people who might be interested in listening to our podcasts, are going to read those reviews. I can tell you for sure that people love to know what others think. So, we value your reviews a great deal. And if any of you, including you, Eric, know of anyone else who ought to be a guest on Unstoppable Mindset, we'd love an introduction, because we're always looking for people who want to come on and tell their stories, so I hope that that we'll find ways to do that, and definitely value you being here, Eric, and doing all this, and I want to thank you again for being here. This has been a lot of fun. Speaker 1  1:01:37 Thank you, Michael. Happy to be on you. thank Michael Hingson  1:01:43 you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others. I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them, so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable min

Many people report that their attention spans have diminished—but what if you can rebuild your concentration skills? Gloria Mark is a professor of informatics at UC Irvine who studies the impact of digital media on people's lives. In this episode, Gloria joins Adam to dig into her research on multitasking, interruptions, and focus, sharing insights on why we're so easily distracted and how to train your brain to improve concentration. Gloria also answers a question from historian Daniel Immerwahr, a past Re:Thinking guest, and makes the case for moderation as a more effective prescription than a full digital detox.Featured guestFollow Gloria Mark on LinkedIn, and https://gloriamark.com/Buy Attention Span: A Groundbreaking Way to Restore Balance, Happiness and ProductivityConnect with the teamFollow Adam on Instagram, LinkedIn, and at adamgrant.net/Subscribe to Adam's substack GrantedWatch ReThinking videos on YouTube at TEDAudioCollectiveFollow TED on X, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and TikTokReThinking is produced by Cosmic Standard. Our Senior Producer is Jessica Glazer, our Engineer is Aja Simpson, our Technical Director is Jacob Winik, and our Executive Producer is Eliza Smith.For the full text transcript, visit ted.com/podcasts/rethinking-with-adam-grant-transcripts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Towards the end of last year, Australia did something no other country had ever tried: it banned social media for kids under 16. And a bunch of others are following with similar laws, first Denmark, then France, then Indonesia and Austria. All in, there are now more than 25 countries that have either implemented, or are actively considering, social media bans for kids. It seems like Canada is moving there as well. In April, the Liberal party adopted a non-binding motion to restrict young people's access to both social media and AI chatbots. All over the world, you can hear parents breathing a sigh of relief. They've spent the last decade watching their kids become hooked on their devices, and now we're doing something about it. It looks like we're finally going to get our kids back. But researchers like Candice Odgers are skeptical. Odgers is a psychology professor at UC Irvine who's been studying the digital lives of young people for almost 20 years now, long before anyone was worried about what social media was doing to their brains. She says there isn't really any research to suggest these bans will work. But her argument goes even deeper than that: she says the idea that smartphones have caused a youth mental health crisis just isn't supported by the evidence. So as governments all over the world start to kick kids off social media, and maybe even AI chatbots as well, Candice Odgers thinks we're making a serious mistake. And I want to know if she's right. Mentioned The Anxious Generation, by Jonathan Haidt (Penguin Press, 2024).  Australia's under-16 social media ban — the Online Safety Amendment (Social Media Minimum Age) Act 2024, in effect 10 December 2025 — eSafety Commissioner. National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, “Social Media and Adolescent Health” (2024). Hunt Allcott et al., “The Effects of School Phone Bans: National Evidence from Lockable Pouches,” NBER (2026) — near-zero effects on test scores, attendance, and bullying. The University of Manchester #BeeWell study finding no link between social media/gaming use and later anxiety or depression, Journal of Public Health (2026). “The Kids Are All Right,” Scientific American (2026) — young people doing better than prior generations on many metrics. The Stanford-led evaluation of Australia's ban (Stanford Social Media Lab with the eSafety Commission), finding most teens stayed on the platforms — The Conversation. The early-1980s Pac-Man moral panic (Surgeon General C. Everett Koop's 1982 warning; municipal moves to restrict arcades) — Freethink. Section 230 of the US Communications Decency Act (47 U.S.C. § 230) — Cornell Legal Information Institute Canada's Gen(Z)AI youth assembly on AI (~100 young Canadians aged 17–23), Centre for Media, Technology and Democracy, findings presented in Ottawa. Machines Like Us is hosted by Taylor Owen, produced by Paradigms, and distributed by The Globe and Mail. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On this episode of Star Warsologies, we chat with chemistry professor (and Melissa's former boss!) Seth Cohen. We get into a discussion of lightsabers, of course, and learn about the real-life crystals involved in laser experiments that sound a lot like Kyber crystals. There's also a lot of cool info about different metals, including how the strength of beskar might not be in the material itself but how it's prepared. We get into some fun new questions about the cortosis helmet in The Acolyte too. Seth calls chemistry "the central science" and we really do find a variety of topics to cover when it comes to Star Wars! Show Notes: Seth's research group is currently at UCSD but he's moving soon to UC Irvine! And learn more about DARPA projects like Atmospheric Water Extraction and LifeStraw that we talked about. Learn more about MOFs (the chemistry kind) that earned the Nobel Prize! You can also check out Mike Sailor's research at UCSD that we talked about in terms of beskar armor! Check out our related episodes on lasers in Star Wars and one about prosthetics. You can order James's crossword puzzle book now! For a free puzzle, download the activity kit from Star Wars Reads! Subscribe to Star Warsologies on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Did you miss an earlier episode? Catch up here! Follow us on BlueSky and Instagram or join our Facebook fan group! Star Warsologies is a podcast about science and other fields in a galaxy far, far away. Hosts James Floyd and Melissa Miller combine their love of storytelling in the franchise with their keen interest in all things academic.

Are you secretly running on empty, wondering if burnout is targeting you next?In this episode, Alen Voskanian, COO of Cedars-Sinai Medical Network and author, pulls back the curtain on the raw realities beneath operations leadership. From the constant grind of clinical environments to the personal toll of endless firefighting, Voskanian exposes why burnout hits high performers hardest and how ignoring your creative side can quietly sabotage your impact. This isn't just about wellness platitudes. It's a real-world look at chasing fulfillment, designing systems that beat chaos, and the unexpected arts that make leaders resilient.If you're a COO (or run with one), you can't afford to miss these insights. The game has changed. Listen now or risk staying stuck in cycles that will bury both your team and your spirit. This is the side of leadership nobody else is showing you.Sponsored byGenius Network - An exclusive community for highly successful entrepreneurs, connecting you with top-tier leaders, strategic insights, and powerful relationships to help you grow your business faster and smarter.Learn more: https://www.geniusnetwork.com/Timestamped Highlights00:25 – The real reason burnout is rampant among COOs and physicians04:12 – The under-the-radar roles that secretly prepared him for operations07:29 – Three unconventional ways to master leadership fast12:18 – Why stand-up comedy became his secret tool for resilience15:57 – The hidden danger in neglecting your creative life as a leader19:53 – Brutal realities of burnout nobody is willing to admit29:55 – How lean principles are quietly transforming healthcare operations39:09 – What people on their deathbeds taught him about fulfillment and regretAbout the GuestAlen Voskanian, MD, MBA, is the Vice President and COO of Cedars-Sinai Medical Network. A board-certified physician in Family Medicine and Hospice & Palliative Medicine, he's also an author and sought-after keynote speaker. Alen is known for transforming healthcare to improve access and quality. He holds degrees from UC Berkeley, UC Irvine, and an MBA from Indiana University. He's a former innovation advisor for CMS, a Cunniff-Dixon/Hastings Center Physician Award winner, and a Health Innovators Fellow with the Aspen Global Leadership Network.

Subscribe now⁠ for the full episode. Danny and Derek speak with Roland Betancourt, Chancellor's Professor of Art History at UC Irvine, about Disneyland and the rise of automation in the U.S. They talk about Walt Disney's move from animation to theme parks, the relationship between amusement parks and industrial production, Cold War technology and Southern California, Disney's use of automation and control, labor in the theme park, Disney World and Epcot, and more. Grab your copy of Roland's book Disneyland and the Rise of Automation: How Technology Created the Happiest Place on Earth. Don't forget about our weekly livestream, tomorrow night at 8pm ET over on our YouTube channel! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Danny and Derek speak with Roland Betancourt, Chancellor's Professor of Art History at UC Irvine, about Disneyland and the rise of automation in the US. They talk about Walt Disney's move from animation to theme parks, the relationship between amusement parks and industrial production, Cold War technology and Southern California, Disney's use of automation and control, labor in the theme park, Disney World and Epcot, and more.Grab your copy of Roland's book Disneyland and the Rise of Automation: How Technology Created the Happiest Place on Earth.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Professor of Global and International Studies at UC Irvine, Dr. Tiffany Willoughby-Herard, and her attorney, Justice Project Director at the Advancement Project Thomas Harvey, discuss her work and her case of political prosecution in the era of Trump. Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/tavis-smiley--6286410/support.

Dr. Sydney Glassman is an Associate Professor in the Department of Microbiology & Plant Pathology at the University of California, Riverside. She studies how wildfires affect soil bacteria and fungi, with a particular interest in how soil microbial communities help ecosystems recover after disturbance. Her work focuses especially on mycorrhizal fungi, which form beneficial relationships with plant roots, as well as other fascinating bacteria and fungi that play important roles in nature. Outside of work, Sydney spends most of her time with her husband, her young children, and their two dogs (one an extra-large mixed breed and one an extra-small mixed breed). Reading books together is a favorite family pastime. She completed her B.A. in Biology with a Concentration in Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at the University of Pennsylvania. Next Sydney received a Master's of Environmental Studies degree in Environmental Biology from the University of Pennsylvania working with Professor Brenda Casper. She was awarded her PhD in Environmental Science, Policy, & Management from the University of California, Berkeley working with Professor Tom Bruns. Afterwards, she conducted postdoctoral research at UC Irvine working with Professor Jennifer Martiny in the Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology before joining the faculty at UC Riverside in 2018. In this interview, Sydney shares more about her life and science.

Dr. Troy Rohn has spent two decades in neuroscience research, lived with anxiety his entire life, and co-founded a biotech company trying to treat it in a way no drug has managed before. In this conversation with host KAJ, he makes a quiet but striking case: that anxiety is not a mystery, it is a circuit problem — and gene therapy may finally be precise enough to address it at the source.The conversation covers what anxiety actually is, why current medications fail a third of the people who take them, the difference between RNA and DNA therapies, and what a world looks like where mental health treatment is personalised to your own genetic makeup. Accessible, honest, and quietly hopeful.=========================================KAJ Masterclass LIVEA video-first, live-first global conversation ecosystem — editorially independent, depth-driven, and supporter-sustained. Hosted by independent journalist Khudania Ajay (KAJ), KAJ Masterclass explores leadership, business, AI, careers, health, creativity, ideas, and the evolving human experience through thoughtful, unscripted conversations grounded in lived experience, clarity, and real-world insight.Every conversation is designed to leave you with something meaningful to think about, understand, or apply.

Support the Institute today. https://givenow.nova.edu/the-institute-for-neuro-immune-medicine-inim-2025   In today's episode, Haylie Pomroy talks with Dr. Rafael Gonzalez, a PhD immunologist from UC Irvine and founder of ReStem, for a conversation that brings cutting-edge cell therapy research directly to the chronic illness community.   Dr. Gonzalez breaks down the science of immune exhaustion, explaining why so many patients with ME/CFS, long COVID, POTS, and autoimmune disorders are stuck in a state of dysfunction that conventional labs and appointments often fail to capture. He introduces the concept of senescent cells, what he calls zombie cells, and explains the specific role natural killer cells play in clearing viral burden and restoring immune balance.   Together, Haylie and Dr. Gonzalez explore how cell therapies, specifically quality-cultivated umbilical cord lining stem cells and activated natural killer cells, are being used in clinical studies to re-regulate immune systems that have gone into either hyper-inflammatory overdrive or complete exhaustion. Dr. Gonzalez also clarifies the significant difference between legitimate, rigorously tested cell therapies and the inconsistent products flooding the market under the stem cell label.   Dr. Rafael Gonzalez, PhD is a regenerative medicine expert and researcher with over 20 years of experience in cell biology, stem cell science, and immune health. He earned his PhD and BS from the University of California, Irvine, where his research focused on immune system interactions following spinal cord injury. Known for his work in regenerative medicine, longevity, and cell therapeutics, Dr. Gonzalez has authored scientific publications, holds multiple patents in the field, and frequently teaches and speaks internationally on stem cell biology, immune health, and anti-aging science. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rafael-gonzalez-6026672a/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drgonzalezphd/  Haylie Pomroy, Founder and CEO of The Haylie Pomroy Group, is a leading health strategist specializing in metabolism, weight loss, and integrative wellness. With over 25 years of experience, she has worked with top medical institutions and high-profile clients, developing targeted programs and supplements rooted in the "Food is Medicine" philosophy. Inspired by her own autoimmune journey, she combines expertise in nutrition, biochemistry, and patient advocacy to help others reclaim their health. She is a New York Times bestselling author of The Fast Metabolism Diet.   Learn more about Haylie Pomroy's approach to wellness through her website: https://hayliepomroy.com   Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hayliepomroy  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hayliepomroy  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@hayliepomroy/videos  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hayliepomroy/  X: https://x.com/hayliepomroy    Thank you for tuning in to the Hope and Help For Fatigue and Chronic Illness Podcast. Sign up today for our newsletter.

How does Jesus-shaped change happen? It happens when you commit God's Word to your heart, give it time to grow, water His Word with prayer and continuously tend to the soil of your heart. Continue listening to find out more about HOW to do just that!▶SUBSCRIBE: https://www.youtube.com/c/SouthernHillsLV▶Do you know Jesus as your Savior? https://www.southernhillslv.com/the-gospel▶ DONATE: https://pushpay.com/g/southernhills?src=hpp&r=monthly▶ Visit Southern Hills: https://www.southernhillslv.com/▶ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/southernhillslv▶ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/southernhillslv/Pastor Brian Krum serves as the Discipleship Pastor at Southern Hills Church in Las Vegas. He has an undergrad in Cross-cultural Sociology from UC Irvine, a Masters of Divinity from Palmer Seminary, and a Doctorate in Missional Leadership from Fuller Seminary. Before coming to Southern Hills, he served for 28 years in New Zealand in various roles including youth pastor, teaching pastor, seminary professor, and the leader of National Youth Ministries.

In this episode, Bernadette Boden-Albala, MD, MPH, DrPH, Founding Dean, Joe C. Wen School of Population & Public Health; Professor, Health, Society & Behavior and Neurology, University of California, Irvine, discusses building a next-generation public health school, advancing prevention and community health, and preparing future leaders to tackle today's biggest healthcare challenges.

Henry Park is the Co-founder and CEO of Pandoblox, a Platform-as-a-Service company unifying data, IT & security to make mid-market companies AI-ready. A serial tech entrepreneur with over 20 years of experience, he has navigated major shifts like VoIP, cloud, and blockchain. He is also the Founder of Guerilla Community Movement, a nonprofit supporting at-risk youth through mentorship and rite of passage programs. Henry holds a degree in economics from UC Irvine, with a background in psychology, and an executive MBA from Tuck University.  In this episode… Sometimes the most important question about AI is not what it can do, but what it should never replace. As businesses race to automate decisions, workflows, and data operations, how do leaders keep human wisdom at the center? For Henry Park, the answer starts with building AI around people, not the other way around. He explains that his journey led him to build solutions focused on outcomes, not just tools, introducing a "service as software" model that removes complexity for growing businesses. He highlights how listening closely to customers and adapting through major tech shifts enabled long-term relevance. This approach helps companies leverage data and AI without heavy internal resources. He also emphasizes the role of mentorship in shaping both individuals and organizations, creating ripple effects beyond business. In this episode of the Inspired Insider Podcast, host Dr. Jeremy Weisz sits down with Henry Park, Co-founder and CEO of Pandoblox, to discuss human-centered AI for mid-market growth. They explore how to adapt to tech shifts, solve mid-market SaaS challenges, and build outcome-driven platforms. Henry also shares insights on mentorship, leadership, and creating impact beyond business.

In 1949, Mental Health America established that each May would be recognized as Mental Health Awareness Month. The theme for 2026 is “More Good Days, Together,” and it encourages everyone to think about what a “good day” looks like – for both ourselves and our communities. Here to share insight on that is Susan Charles, UC Irvine professor of psychology and nursing, who examines emotional processes across the adult lifespan. In this episode of The UC Irvine Podcast, she will discuss her award-winning findings on how people's perceptions of good days – and their priorities – change as they grow older. The director of the Emotion Research Lab will also highlight several factors her team has learned contribute to well-being over the years and answer a common question: How do individuals know if they're aging well? “The Day Is Close,” the music for this episode, was provided by The 126ers via the audio library in YouTube Studio.

The Rainbow Warriors are national champions again after UH beat UC Irvine for the third title in program history. State leaders broke ground on the Wahiawa Dam Improvement Project. Plus, health officials are trying to calm fears of a pandemic after Americans from a hantavirus-affected cruise ship arrived at a quarantine center in Nebraska.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hawaii Island police have launched a negligent homicide investigation after a Waimea man was hit and killed while changing a tire on the roadside. A late Maui police officer is being honored in Washington, D.C., as the nation recognizes law enforcement officers this week. The Rainbow Warriors beat UC Irvine to win the national volleyball championship.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode, we explore the hidden downsides of open-door leadership and how it can quietly impact productivity, focus, and team performance. While the intention is to create accessibility and strong communication, constant interruptions can derail priorities and create unintended bottlenecks. Drawing on research from UC Irvine, I share how frequent disruptions affect deep work, along with a real case study of a CEO who found himself overwhelmed by team dependencies. You'll hear how he restructured his leadership approach by setting clearer boundaries, empowering independent thinking, and implementing focused one-on-one meetings. The result was more time, stronger team confidence, and improved overall performance. If you're a leader looking to support your team without sacrificing focus, this episode will help you rethink how accessibility and accountability can work together. Episode Highlights & Time Stamps 1:07 The Reality of Open Door Policies 2:47 Hidden Costs of Open Door Leadership 4:52 Strategies for Better Leadership 7:01 Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Martha Trujillo joins Dr. Sandie Morgan to ask what changes when communities stop seeing vulnerable youth as problems to be managed and start seeing them as young people in need of support.About Martha Trujillo Martha Trujillo is the founder of Full Circle Orange County, an organization dedicated to supporting risk-impacted and at-risk students through mentorship, education, and community. Her work is informed by lived experience: she grew up in Orange County and faced significant challenges as a young person, including foster care, gang involvement, expulsion from school, juvenile detention, substance use, and victimization. She now uses her story to guide and empower students facing similar obstacles. Trujillo holds a master's degree in criminology from UC Irvine and a bachelor's degree in criminal justice from California State University, Fullerton, and is preparing to pursue a doctorate in education at UC Irvine. Through Full Circle, she practices “diversion through mentorship,” combining workshops, re-entry support, and one-on-one guidance for youth in schools, group homes, and detention centers across Orange County and beyond.Chapters (00:00) - Introduction (01:09) - Know More, Do Better and Full Circle Orange County (05:50) - Martha's Journey: Foster Care, Gangs, and Juvenile Hall (12:49) - Feeding Before Teaching: An Approach Built on Lived Experience (15:39) - Why Prevention Must Start Earlier (21:15) - Mentorship, Lived Experience, and Dual Status Kids (27:53) - Hopes for Full Circle and Coming Full Circle Key Points • Full Circle Orange County's mission is preventing youth incarceration in adulthood by helping kids be identified early as victims rather than written off as criminals.• Martha's “feeding before teaching” approach — breaking bread with youth before any workshop — builds trust and recognizes the unmet basic needs that often shape kids' behavior.• Lived experience is one of three pillars (alongside academic training and direct work with youth) that shapes how Martha builds rapport with students no one else has been able to reach.• Early human trafficking prevention should begin between ages 9 and 14, in language that's age-appropriate but not avoidant — and not reserved only for kids in poverty-stricken environments.• “Dual status” youth (both foster and probation-involved) need support that recognizes them as children first, not as labels — and the juvenile justice system has resources to help them, if we use them well.• Mentors who share appropriate pieces of their own story give kids something to relate to; without that connection, real rapport is rarely possible.• Survivors going through religious rites of passage may be carrying hidden trauma; faith communities have a vital role in trauma-informed prevention conversations.• Coming full circle: Martha was expelled from Nicolas Junior High in eighth grade — and years later returned to receive an honorary promotion certificate alongside its current eighth graders.Resources • Full Circle Orange County• Know More, Do Better (OC Human Trafficking Task Force)• Global Center for Women and Justice (Vanguard University)• CASA of Orange County

6'10 Kyle Evans is about to fill a desperate need for this year's Wolfpack. Evans was the nation's block leader at UC Irvine last season; however that stat overshadows the entire package he'll bring to the table next year. We sat down with him to hear about his journey, why he chose NC State, and what we can expect from him this coming season.

Host Holly Wayment brings us Houston spine surgeon Rex Marco who, after a terrible cycling accident , faced  life-changing paralysis to recovery through mindfulness, the RAIN method, and radical acceptance.   He describes what happened to him and how in one moment everything can change. His work now explores how compassion, mindfulness, and vulnerability can reshape how we live, lead, and heal. In 2019, Dr. Marco sustained a C3–4 fracture-dislocation in a cycling accident, resulting in C2 quadriplegia. Today, he serves as the Chief Medical Ambassador for the Christopher & Dana Reeve Foundation, advocating for research, cure, and improved quality of life for individuals living with spinal cord injury. He is also a certified mindfulness meditation teacher and is passionate about integrating resilience, presence, and emotional healing into medicine, leadership, and life. He's known for creative and transformative teaching and shares that his most profound transformation came through recovery, where he confronted longstanding patterns in how he related to himself and others.  This episode explores how he says acceptance, gratitude, and recovery programs transformed his leadership, clinical practice, and family life, offering actionable tools for cultivating presence and emotional safety. Dr. Rex Marco is an internationally recognized orthopedic spine and musculoskeletal oncology surgeon whose career has centered on caring for patients with complex spinal disorders and tumors. He completed his undergraduate studies at UC Irvine and conducted research at the National Institutes of Health through the Howard Hughes Medical Institute before earning his medical degree from the UCLA School of Medicine. He went on to complete surgical training at Virginia Mason Medical Center, orthopedic residency at UC Davis, and dual fellowships in musculoskeletal oncology at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and reconstructive spine surgery at Rush University. Dr. Marco has held leadership roles at MD Anderson Cancer Center, Texas Children's Hospital, Houston Methodist Hospital, and UTHealth Houston, where he serves as Spine Fellowship Director.  

What happens when you delete every app off your phone for 21 days? In this solo episode, Erik shares what he discovered during a Christmas break internet break — and what the research says about why so many of us feel like we can't put the phone down in the first place.In this episode, Erik covers:How We Got Here Without Deciding To: The boiled frog drift into five-to-seven hours of daily screen time wasn't a choice anyone made — it happened gradually, and the data from researcher Gloria Mark at UC Irvine shows exactly what it's cost our attention spans.It's Not Just Social Media: Email, Slack, the news app — your brain doesn't distinguish between Instagram and Outlook. The real pattern is letting an outside ping decide what you think about next, and that pattern is everywhere.The Research That Should Actually Motivate You: Studies from the University of Bath and Beth Israel found measurable reductions in anxiety, depression, and insomnia after just one week off social media — improvements that typically take months of therapy to achieve.The Five-Level Detox Ladder: From turning off notifications and going grayscale all the way to Cal Newport's 30-day deep reset protocol, Erik walks through a tiered framework so you can pick the experiment that fits your life right now.The Healthy Cadence Framework: A reset alone isn't enough — Erik lays out how to build purposeful, sustainable habits around when and why you use each channel, so you don't just slide back to baseline.If you've ever felt less busy the moment you put your phone down — or wondered what your brain might feel like with a little less noise in it — this episode is the permission slip and the practical roadmap to find out. Connect with Erik:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠This Podcast is Powered By:Brain.fm - 20% off your first month⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Descript⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Descript 101⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Castmagic⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ecamm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Podpage⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Rodecaster Pro⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Make sure to grab Shortcasts from Beyond The To-Do List by Blinkist. A Shortcast is a 7-10 min version of a podcast where you get the core takeaways. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You sit down to work and forty minutes later you have nine tabs open and no memory of what you started. You pick up an article and reach for your phone before the second paragraph. If this sounds familiar, you are not broken. You are experiencing what researchers are calling a structural shift in human attention — and the data behind it is striking. UC Irvine researchers found that the average attention span on a screen has collapsed from about two and a half minutes in 2004 to just forty seven seconds today. This is not a generational quirk or a personality flaw. It is the direct result of how your devices were designed — and how your brain has adapted to them. Every time you check your phone for no reason, your brain receives a small dopamine reward. Over time it starts to associate stillness and mild boredom with that urge to check. The result is a nervous system that actively resists sustained focus. Microsoft research confirmed the pattern: people who multitask heavily across devices score measurably lower on attention tests, and the effect compounds the longer the habit runs. The good news is the brain is trainable in both directions. Researchers point to a practice called intentional boredom — short daily windows of deliberate doing-nothing, no phone, no audio, no low-key scrolling. It sounds trivial. But it teaches your nervous system that stillness is survivable and slowly rebuilds your baseline capacity to hold focus. The core insight of this episode is this: your focus did not disappear because something went wrong with you. It was pulled away by tools designed by some of the most talented engineers on the planet, whose job was to keep you from looking away. Knowing that is not a reason to give up. It is a reason to be intentional. Your attention is worth reclaiming. Key Insights The average screen attention span dropped from two and a half minutes in 2004 to forty seven seconds today (UC Irvine) Dopamine dysregulation from habitual phone checking trains the brain to resist sustained focus Microsoft research links heavy device multitasking to measurably lower attention test scores Intentional boredom practice — ten to fifteen minutes of deliberate stillness — is one of the most evidence-backed ways to rebuild focus Loss of focus is a design outcome, not a personal failing Subscribe If this episode made you think differently about your attention, subscribe to The Healthier Tech Podcast for more evidence-based conversations on living and working better with technology.   This episode is brought to you by Shield Your Body — a global leader in EMF protection and digital wellness. Because real wellness means protecting your body, not just optimizing it. If you found this episode eye-opening, leave a review, share it with someone tech-curious, and subscribe to Shield Your Body on YouTube for more insights on living healthier with technology.

The Dedeaux Download Podcast returns with Shotgun Spratling and podcast co-host Kasey Kazliner breaking down USC baseball's continued success at home after the Trojans recorded their eighth sweep of the season, improving to a nation's best home record of 28-1 at Dedeaux Field. They also talk with USC hitting coach Travis Jewett about the team's offensive production, which has seen an uptick in driving the baseball, knocking 19 extra-base hits over the weekend in a sweep of Rutgers. Jewett joins the first half of the show to discuss how USC's offense continues to progress with hitters like Augie Lopez and Isaac Cadena really tapping into their power. (The duo has combined for 16 home runs since the start of April.) He discusses the approach USC's hitters are taking to the plate and why it may not be sexy, but it's good to take free base on balls. After a break, Shotgun and Kasey take a look at the Trojans' 3-1 week that began with a disappointing offensive effort at UC Irvine before USC broke loose against Rutgers, notching a pair of run-rule victories to close out the weekend after Mason Edwards was nearly unhittable once again Shotgun and Kasey close out the show taking a look at where the Trojans' stand in the rankings and preview a non-conference week for USC as it takes on Cal State Fullerton Tuesday before a three-game series against Nevada that will begin a day early on Thursday. Please review, rate and subscribe to the Peristyle Podcast on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Make sure you check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠USCFootball.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for complete coverage of USC Trojans football, basketball, baseball and recruiting.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Candidates in the Governor's race face off in a fiery debate on issues including affordability and health insurance. New UC Irvine research is warning parents about giving their small kids too much screen time. Why a judge needs more time to rule over claims that ICE detainees are being treated inhumanely. Plus, more from Morning Edition. Support The L.A. Report by donating at LAist.com/join and by visiting https://laist.comSupport the show: https://laist.com

The Dedeaux Download Podcast returns with Shotgun Spratling and podcast co-host Kasey Kazliner breaking down USC baseball's bounce back series sweep of Purdue after a four-game losing streak and previewing the Trojans' upcoming week of action. They also talk with USC junior center fielder Kevin Takeuchi about his recent power surge and the vibes around the program with the Trojans now 34-11 (16-8). In the first half of the show, Takeuchi talks about how he's been able to tap into his power more in recent games and how he's become such a good defender despite having barely any prior experience at the premium position he plays. He also discusses why USC continues to have so much success at new Dedeaux Field and what the Trojans have to do to play better on the road . After a break, Shotgun and Kasey break down the Trojans' 4-0 week in the Three Up, Three Down segment, looking at the positives and negatives from the Purdue sweep following a get-right game at Cal State Fullerton. Shotgun and Kasey close out the show taking a look at where the Trojans' stand in the rankings, where their hosting chances stand and previewing a week of take-care-of-business games against UC Irvine and Rutgers. Please review, rate and subscribe to the Peristyle Podcast on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Make sure you check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠USCFootball.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for complete coverage of USC Trojans football, basketball, baseball and recruiting.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Jerry & Jerry Show headlines: UVA Hoops Earns 1st Transfer Portal Commitment What Do We Know About UC Irvine's Jurian Dixon? Hoo Else Is Ryan Odom Targetting In The Portal? 0 Wahoos Drafted, 10 Sign NFL Free Agent Deals What Virginia Football Snub Surprised You The Most? CVille's Malachi Fields Drafted By NYG In 3rd RD What's Wrong With Baseball? Other News & Notes Subscribe To JerryRatcliffe.com For Only $8 Per Month Read Viewer & Listener Comments Live On-Air Jerry Ratcliffe & Jerry Miller were live on The Jerry & Jerry Show! The Jerry & Jerry Show airs live Tuesday from 10:15 am – 11:15 pm on The I Love CVille Network. Watch and listen to The Jerry & Jerry Show on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, iTunes, Apple Podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Fountain, Amazon Music, Audible and iLoveCVille.com.

A young professional steps into leadership faster than expected and learns what really drives success. In this conversation, I sit down with Dana Prenger, a rising marketing manager at SmartSolve, who shares how growing up in a small town, competing in sports, and navigating college shaped her mindset around drive, resilience, and growth. You will hear how she turned uncertainty into clarity through programs like Life Design, how early career risks helped her step into leadership, and why she believes failure is simply a learning moment. We also explore SmartSolve's mission to create water-soluble packaging and reduce waste, showing how purpose-driven work can fuel motivation. This episode is a reminder that progress comes from consistent effort, not one defining moment, and that your mindset will shape how far you go. Highlights: 00:10 Discover how stepping into new opportunities before feeling ready builds real confidence 06:02 Learn how sports shape discipline, time management, and long-term success habits 10:00 Understand how exploring different paths helps you find the right career direction 20:00 See how real-world internships can define and accelerate your career path 34:36 Discover how early sales experience builds resilience and confidence under pressure 51:39 Learn how reframing failure as a learning opportunity changes how you grow and move forward Bottom of Form About the Guest: Dana Prenger is a Marketing Manager at SmartSolve, a zero-waste packaging technology company with a bold mission to make packaging no longer trash. In her mid-20s, Dana has quickly built a career in B2B marketing, contributing across content creation, social media, email campaigns, event marketing, video projects, website management, and brand storytelling. As SmartSolve celebrates its 10-year anniversary, she is grateful for the opportunity to wear many hats and help bring an innovative, sustainability-driven vision to life. She grew up in a small town in Ohio, where she learned the value of hard work, teamwork, and community. A three-sport athlete in high school, Dana was a member of the 2019 Ohio state basketball team and graduated as her class Salutatorian—experiences that shaped her competitive mindset and leadership style long before her professional career began. Dana earned a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration with a specialization in Marketing from Bowling Green State University. During her time at BGSU, she was a Dean's Scholar, recipient of the Women in Business Leadership Scholarship, and an active member of the American Marketing Association. She was selected for the inaugural Ohio Export Internship Program, where she was matched with SmartSolve—an experience that ultimately launched her career with the company. Driven by curiosity and connection, Dana thrives in fast-paced environments where creativity meets strategy and marketing feels intentional and human. Outside of work, she loves to travel and has visited more than ten countries and counting. She is motivated by meaningful work, strong relationships, and conversations around marketing, sustainability, packaging innovation, and career growth. Ways to connect with Dana: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dana-prenger/ SmartSolve website: https://smartsolve.com/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe Welcome to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. I'm your host. Michael hingson, speaker, author and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear, together, we focus on mindset resilience and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hello everyone, and welcome once again to another episode of unstoppable mindset. I'm really excited to be here today. We've been waiting for this one for a while, and I'm glad we were finally able to do it. I found Dana Prenger online, and her boss and she decided to come on, and then we'll have to get her boss on, because then we want to find out the real truth about Dana. Dana Prenger  01:28 Yes, thanks, Michael, thanks. Michael Hingson  01:31 I'm such a big help, right? But Dana, Dana Prenger  01:35 I was debating on joining. I was like, we should have John, the president of smart solve, share about our story first, and I didn't feel worthy enough to share my story right away, but Michael was very reassuring, and it's like you got this let's give it a go. Michael Hingson  01:48 Yeah, you can tell us a little about smart solve. It's not going to affect having John on because he'll tell more of the story, and he'll tell it from his point of view. So I'm not too worried about that? Well, Dana. Dana is a marketing person. She graduated from Bowling Green State University. I didn't know it was a state university, Dana Prenger  02:10 yep, BGSU. A lot of people get confused with Bowling Green. They think of Kentucky, but northern Ohio, yeah, nice College in town. Oh, cool. Is it? How large is it? Pretty big. It's a d1 school. Michael Hingson  02:25 When I went to UC Irvine, out here in California, one of the reasons I went was that it was a small school. It was actually a new school. The year I was a freshman, was the first year they actually had a graduating class at UC Irvine, there were, like about 2500 2600 students. They had their first graduating class, and I went and visited it in 19, excuse me, in 2024 because when I left, they were just getting ready to start a phi, beta, Kappa chapter, and it was too late for me to become a member. And in 2023 the there was a, there's a magazine that generally is all about Sigma Pi Sigma, the physics honor society. And they discovered me, and they wanted to do an interview. And during the interview, as I love to put it, I shot off my mouth and said that, in fact, I was was going to the school when they were forming the phi, beta, Kappa chapter, but it was too late for me to join, because I was leaving. And one of the people who read that story was a physics professor who came to UC Irvine, basically the year I left, and she is still there. She's still a professor. And she called me and she said, I am the historian for the local mu chapter of Phi Beta, kappa, and we want you to come back and become an honorary member of Phi two. Well, a member of, I guess it'd be an honorary it's not an honorary member. I'm actually a member, but it's of later on, not at the time being a student. So anyway, I went back down and there are 32,000 undergrads at that campus. Now it's crazy. Dana Prenger  04:16 Wow. So cool to see the growth. Michael Hingson  04:18 Of course, UC Irvine or UCI, as they love to say. UCI actually stands for under construction indefinitely, because they're always building something there. Dana Prenger  04:30 It's crazy. Yeah, yeah. BGSU has around 4000 students, so it's cool that it's a big enough college, but they had really great professors and instructors where you didn't feel like just a number there, you got to know people by name. I was involved, yeah, and a lot of different student groups. One of the programs that was really cool was being a life design student ambassador. Michael Hingson  04:53 Ah, well, we'll have to talk about that. But I like, I like the size 4000 is plenty low. Large that's pretty cool. Well, tell us a little bit about you, the the the early Dana, growing up and all that. Where did you grow up? And tell us about some of that. Dana Prenger  05:10 Yeah, of course. I grew up in a small town, Minster, Ohio, so that town's a lot smaller than, Bg, about a square mile. Very good community. A lot of my family's from there. My mom's a school teacher at the school. So very great place to grow up, good traditions, and it's still close to Bowling Green, so it's an hour and a half drive away, so I still go home quite frequently and visit family and friends. Michael Hingson  05:36 So you went you went to school. What time were you Where did you come from? Where were you born? Dana Prenger  05:43 Yeah, born in a local hospital, right near Minster, Minster, Minster, Ohio. We have a lot of German heritage. We do a big Oktoberfest festival every year, which draws a lot of people to it. But besides that, a lot of corn fields. Grandpa's a farmer family. Michael Hingson  06:01 So are you a beer drinker? Dana Prenger  06:05 Yes, I am. I Michael Hingson  06:07 never did like the taste of beer, but that's okay. I did take three years of high school German, so maybe that counts for something. Yeah, there you go. Well, so you, you, you went to school. There you went to high school and all that, and then you decided to go to Bowling Green, huh? Dana Prenger  06:26 Yep, and that's the thing I liked about being in this from a small town, you got to do a lot of things. I was very much a multi tasker, or tried to be well rounded as I could be So, doing school, different clubs, sports. I was a three sport athlete, doing volleyball, basketball and track. So coming to BG, it was fun. I did like an intramural volleyball league. And, yeah, I chose BG. A lot of people, kind of from our area, went there. After being on campus, it did feel kind of like a second version of home. Michael Hingson  06:59 So Wow. So three sports, that's that's pretty cool. That kept you busy. Dana Prenger  07:05 Thanks, yes. And I graduated minster in 2021 so I'm not sure if you, I might be your youngest podcast guest you've had on, Michael. You might Michael Hingson  07:15 be well. You clearly have done well. So you graduated from school in minster in 2021 Dana Prenger  07:22 Yeah, I was born in 2000 to June of 2002 so yeah, nine months after 911 911 Michael Hingson  07:30 so for you, though you were at Bowling Green State four years, Dana Prenger  07:37 three years. Oh, you graduated a year early Michael Hingson  07:40 for you. Now, when you graduated, you were what second in your class? Dana Prenger  07:50 Yep, from Minster. Yep, I was a salutatorian, so had to give a speech at my high school graduation ceremony, Michael Hingson  07:57 and so, so what did you talk about as a as a speaker, as a salutatorian? Dana Prenger  08:05 I shared a story and equated kind of the grade schools reflecting on memories as a clock. So I was like, as the clock strikes one, and I would throw in a funny little memory from first grade to second to third, kind of going around until it was clock striking 12 as we're about to graduate. Michael Hingson  08:23 There you go. So you you had some experience at public speaking? Do you still do public speaking today? Dana Prenger  08:30 I've joined a few podcasts before, but being in marketing too, when students come or groups visit, smart solve, I'll do some speaking there, but not near as much speaking engagements or experience that you have well. Michael Hingson  08:48 So you, you went right into Bowling Green, and you decided right up front you were going to do marketing. Or what did you major in at first? Or did you always stick to one? Dana Prenger  08:59 I was debating between two things. So yeah, I liked marketing, like the business element. I had an older brother who went to BGSU as well. He was in the College of Business. But I also liked design. And in high school, I was on the yearbook committee. So I liked to take pictures, like to design the pages. So I tried out a few different classes before officially declaring my major. VCT is the program visual communication technology. I took a few classes in that but ultimately, after my first year, decided to go on with business and marketing as my specialization. Michael Hingson  09:37 Well. But even so, VCT is, in a sense, related to marketing, although I understand it's a specialty as well, correct? Dana Prenger  09:48 Yep, very much related into it work hand in hand. I'm actually hiring for a digital content coordinator right now, so it's cool to have somebody that I'm looking for. With more of that specialized experience Michael Hingson  10:04 and and are we looking at people from Bowling Green? Dana Prenger  10:08 Yep, it's a in person position. So looking at people around the area or willing to commute? Michael Hingson  10:15 Yeah, because otherwise, bringing somebody in from out of state or from a long way away, and paying moving expenses and all that. That's a bigger challenge. Dana Prenger  10:25 Yeah, and one of the things I was involved at at BGSU that I really loved this program, it was a new program they were implementing called Life Design. So basically, it's based off of the book and research that the Stanford Bill Burnett and Dave Evans did, designing your life, but basically saying that a lot of students come and come to college and don't know their major and are undecided and trying to figure out classes. So it's just a way to build community along the way, and it's a class for first year students to help them prototype different pathways and different avenues for their life. Michael Hingson  11:05 And so do they get a chance to look at different kinds of curriculum, different disciplines and so on? Dana Prenger  11:11 Yep, different curriculum, different careers, thinking, planning out your years. If you would go in this major, join this major, do this club, basically just getting people to think outside of the box, and prototype is a big word that they used in design different pathways that work for you. How's that working? Yeah, it was really great program. I was one of the first people to come as a freshman, to have that class, and then the class evolved and grew. My second year at BG, when I became the life design ambassador, I joined the class and was helping the first year students out, and the program continued to grow, continued to grow. We actually had a new building dedication, Jeffrey, Jeff and Jan, rad, Bill center for life design, so I got to be a part of the whole new building opening, grand ribbon cutting ceremony. And just cool to see something build up. Michael Hingson  12:10 Is it still going on? Dana Prenger  12:12 Yeah, still going on. And it's a big kind of differentiator of what BGSU has compared to other colleges across Yes, Michael Hingson  12:20 I can imagine that is pretty unique, but it really sounds like a great tool, because I think a lot of people aren't necessarily as ready, and I don't know whether as ready as is the right way to put it, but as ready to make a commitment as to what major or maybe this Is that people want to really look at options before they make a decision. But either way, it's great to have that kind of a program, Dana Prenger  12:47 and being a student ambassador just helped students get adjusted. Like this is the first time a lot of kids are living off on their own, and so just being there as a reference and resource for them some things they don't feel comfortable asking a professor even just about living in a dorm or college life. I was there for a group of students. Michael Hingson  13:08 Yeah, well, I remember going down to UC Irvine and starting and I didn't know a lot about a lot of the different things that would go on. But for us back in the day, as it were, you were just kind of thrust into it and you you could learn it and but again, I think that's one of the reasons I really liked the fact that it was a fairly small college or university at the time, and I remember I was put in the dorm with all of The athletes for the campus not being an athlete, but they had World Champion water polo team and other things like that. And people would occasionally pray play pranks on me, until the day came when I got to play a prank on them. Gained a lot of respect for that. So I was pretty cool. Dana Prenger  14:00 Are you going to share the prank or keep it a secret? Michael Hingson  14:03 Well, what happened was my my guide dog, my first guide dog, Squire, who's a golden retriever with a wicked sense of humor. Squire was in my room and I was next door with another freshman. We were trying to solve a physics problem. My master's is in physics. I went back into my room and there was no squire. Well, it turns out that they had stolen squire, and they hid him and and I kind of figured that part out, but I went through the dorm looking and of course, everybody was snickering and watching me. I went into the restroom and called him, and he didn't respond. He you know, I didn't hear him anywhere. I even opened the showers, and there was no response. And finally, one of the students who had seen all this happen came over and he said, Look, Squire is in the shower. Or and we went in and opened the door, and Squire comes right out, bouncing and having a good old time, having put it all over on me, as it were. But what we did was they didn't, you know, most all the students weren't paying attention to the fact that this guy was showing me where Squire was. We hit squire again, and I went out and got really ticked, saying, What did you guys do with my dog? I'm sure you took the dog, and everybody was laughing, always in the shower, and they went in the shower, and there's no dog because we hit him elsewhere. So, you know, we got back at him. It was kind of fun. And Squire made no noise when I was looking for him, what a horrible sense of humor. Dana Prenger  15:44 Golden Retrievers are great dogs. Michael Hingson  15:46 They are. Well, it was fun. I mean, you know, it was all in it was all in good fun, but still not the best thing to do to a guide dog. But that's okay. But the the jocks were, were were, were the major players of the campus. Actually, there's a great story. Every room had a phone in the dorm. And so in one of the women's dorms, one day, one of the women started getting some obscene phone calls from somebody, and she told her boyfriend about it, who was one of the jocks, and they, one day, they they told her, if you get him on the phone, this guy calls back, try to keep him on the phone and get somebody to let us know. And they, when this guy called, One day, she got word to her, her boyfriend, and all of the other jocks. They went through the entire phone book on campus in 10 minutes, dialing every number. Found three numbers that were busy, two of which were clearly not the right ones, because they were offices and all that. And so there was this one, and they all went over, knocked on this guy's door. Can you imagine all these big water polo and football players and all that went over and knocked on his door and they said, Hang up the phone and don't you ever do it again. It was great. I mean, teamwork, what? What teamwork? So, you know, they were all pretty neat guys. I gotta Dana Prenger  17:19 say, Yeah, being part of a team is just so good, and for building your character, like growing up being on basketball team, volleyball team, my basketball team actually made it to state in the year 2019, so you really do form a nice bond with them. And even now, as I'm in a different phase of life, your work, team, workplace, just really important, Michael Hingson  17:47 just really important too. Yeah. Well, if you were to describe your hometown with one word or whatever, how would you describe it? Dana Prenger  17:55 Ooh, that's a good one. I would say tradition, just because we do have so many traditions that bring the community together, or minster school motto is tradition of excellence. So that's what I would use. Michael Hingson  18:09 So that's pretty cool, though. But you had, you've had parents who who honored you, but who also, I'm sure, did a lot to teach you things and and help you grow up in the right way. Dana Prenger  18:26 Yes, yeah, a lot of thanks to both my parents, yeah, Mark and Jody. And then I had two siblings, two brothers, siblings and one sister. So family of six, wow, the second oldest, so I had older brother kind of paving the way me younger sister, and then a younger brother, who's a senior right now, and he's debating on where to go for college, and I think he's also going to be going to BGSU Michael Hingson  18:56 well, and I'll bet Older brother especially made sure that sister was treated well, Yep, yeah, brothers do that, right, what? That was fair. That's okay. Well, so you, you worked pretty hard at it all and, and, and had a lot of fun. So tell me more about your your whole time at college, getting marketing degrees and and what all that was like, and then how you ended up going to work and going to work for somebody close by. That must have been a joy. Dana Prenger  19:34 Yeah. So yeah, I loved marketing. And as I said, VCT, I was considering that, and I could have graduated like I did in three years with just marketing, or I could have stayed longer and did an international business specialization. I love traveling. I've been to 10 plus countries, and yeah, thought about doing a study abroad because that older brother of mine, he did do a study abroad in Strasbourg. Of France, and loved it, but instead, I came across this program called the Ohio export internship program. So basically, it's a program designed for small to mid size companies in the state of Ohio, and the state helps them out by going through the whole interview process for candidate, all the screening, teaching them adequate coursework, and then they'll pay for half of the interns wages for the summer. So in the spring, I did a three credit hour course. Had a group of 20 students in my cohort, and then all different colleges in the state of Ohio participated in this too. But then I could have been matched up with the business anywhere in the state of Ohio for my summer internship, summer of 2023 and I just so happened to get matched up with smart solve and that's how I came to know about them Michael Hingson  20:57 cool well, so having been a three sport person and all that. What do you find today from all of your sports experiences that helps you in your career and and how is that all stuck with you? Dana Prenger  21:15 Yeah, definitely the hard work and the grit and drive being able to focus your energy and really go when you have to go, yeah and yeah, managing your time effectively, like when I was in sports, you still had school, you still had other things you had to do in the evening. So being able to manage your time and get a lot of things done. Michael Hingson  21:42 So you you learned a lot about time management, having to juggle three sports and everything else that you were doing. And so how did all that work when you got to Bowling Green, though, did you? Did you have as many different kinds of activities you weren't doing three sports at Bowling Green, I presume? Yeah, no Dana Prenger  22:01 less sports and more trying to focus the academics and, like I said, what I wanted to do with my life. So, yeah, I spent a lot of time being the ambassador for life design. Still did sports just for enjoyment, fun. I did an intramural volleyball League. Yeah, I was involved in the American Marketing Association. Once I found out my true passion, I really liked marketing. Was involved with that, and I was also involved in through the College of Business Dakota Dean's Advisory Council on diversity and inclusion. Michael Hingson  22:37 What did you think about that? Dana Prenger  22:42 Yeah, it was really good for me to be a part of and opened my eyes to a lot of things, because my small hometown, though I love it, and we have great tradition, we are kind of a little bubble of not a ton of diversity. So being opened up to new, new perspectives and new things that was really beneficial. Michael Hingson  23:06 Well, certainly there were other small colleges around. Why did you specifically choose Bowling Green? Dana Prenger  23:13 Yeah, I think I wanted it was a perfect distance. I still wanted to be close to my family and close to home, but also I wanted to go out and experience on my own. If I chose a school too close to home, I would just be driving home, coming, eating dinner with my parents, and not really fully immersing into my independence. Michael Hingson  23:34 So so it was kind of just the ideal distance, if you will. Dana Prenger  23:42 And being like I said, a bigger college, so there is more opportunities sporting events and games, but they had it at an affordable price too, like going to football games my friends and I love to go watch and cheer on the Falcons, but it wasn't like a big school where we had to pay a lot for the tickets as well. Students got free tickets to all sporting events. So I enjoyed that. Michael Hingson  24:06 Oh, that's cool. How big was the stadium? Dana Prenger  24:10 Pretty big. I don't know the exact size, but yeah, it's right off the highway too. So as you drive on 75 through Ohio, you'll see the stadium in the road Michael Hingson  24:24 well, but you, but you enjoyed it. Do you still do any work or activities at Bowling Green? Dana Prenger  24:32 Yeah, so I'm living in BG right now, as I work at Smart solve, they do have a program called the regional network leaders, which tries to keep alumni engaged. So I joined that, and I'm on a team with seven other individuals just helping keep the alumni connected to the university. How's that working? It's good. It's good. Great to meet. With people, and just gives me something else to do besides work in the evenings. But it's not a huge time commitment. We meet about once a month, Michael Hingson  25:10 but it works out pretty well. Well, so you worked, you worked as a life design ambassador. Do you still do anything with that program today? Dana Prenger  25:24 No, not as much as I would like to. I think they are also in the progress, because I was one of the first people to graduate with having to keep us engaged and involved. I still am connected with a lot of them on LinkedIn, and sometimes one of the life design coaches will message me if a student has questions or wants to just have a quick prototype call or conversation to learn more about marketing or their field. Michael Hingson  25:53 You're you're available to help. Which is cool. It's neat to be able to to be a part of all of that. Yeah. Which is cool. So anyway, you you were part of the export internship program and so on, and that eventually got you connected with smart solve. What attracted you to specifically to smart solve? Why did you decide that that's what you, at least were were willing to explore? Dana Prenger  26:20 Yeah, I really liked smart solve. How strong we are with our core values and vision, mission and purpose statement. Most companies say these are our core values, but they're just words on the wall, and they don't get lived out each and every day. But here at Smart solve, we do something called the daily word of inspiration. So we have about 20 full time employees on our team, and we'll just have a calendar we rotate whose day it is for inspiration, and it's just a brief 15 minute meeting, how we start our day every day. And you can share a personal life story. You can share a Bible verse, any watch a video, motivational video, anything you want to give for your inspiration. And then we start our day with word of prayer, optional. Word of prayer. Michael Hingson  27:13 Well, that's pretty cool, and certainly that's a lot of commitment. I was going to ask, why you feel that the whole idea of smart solving what it's doing generates so many important values, but it's pretty clear why that's the case. Dana Prenger  27:31 Yeah, the core values are character, drive, innovation, joy, humility and growth. All right, it's really cool to hear those lived out, and you can see our team members each embody it smart. Solve is a faith based company, but we don't discriminate or only hire people of the same faith. In fact, not everybody's Christian that works here, but we are open about it because we want people to be comfortable about it, or be knowing that we do have that optional daily prayer every day Michael Hingson  28:07 well, and I think there's value in that. I mean, it's, I think, important to recognize that there are a lot of different religions in the world. And the fact is, if you really study most religions, they all pretty much essentially end up going to the same place, and they all believe in the same basic rules anyway, which is, which is pretty important, which is, which is kind of good. Well, where did the term or the title of the company, smart solves come from? Dana Prenger  28:38 Yeah. So John, he's our current CEO, co founder of smart solve. He smart solve. He calls himself intrapreneur, because smart solve was under CMC group, which is they had a bunch of different businesses. One of their main things was supplying labels, any and all kind of labels. And this is kind of the evolution story of smart salt, water salt. One of the customers was like, our labels are great, but it would be nice if they could just dissolve or wash away, because it was an application in the back of a kitchen. How you have, like, containers, the plastic containers you have to label food days of the week and expiration dates for food safety loss. But when they were putting the containers in the dishwasher, after trying to, like, peel or scrub the labels off, there would still be adhesive, sticky residue on it. Yeah. So, so, yeah, they developed water soluble label. And so, yeah, a label that can dissolve and wash away. So day mark still sells water soluble labels to food rotation business, but John was an intern at that time and was like, I think there's a much bigger. Market for water soluble materials, besides just label for food rotation so he can, they allowed him to take that idea and run with it. So smart solve is specifically water soluble materials. We sell just water soluble paper that dissolves the labels and then also pioneering water soluble, flexible packaging, so power stock applications Michael Hingson  30:27 I remember many years ago, and I still don't know how they knew it, but I got a package in the mail and it had popcorn in it, you know, the shipping stuff, and somebody said, Oh, this is that water soluble popcorn. If you put it in water, it'll it'll melt. And I was going, No. And sure enough, it was, I don't know what visually was the clue that that was water soluble, but it was, Dana Prenger  30:58 yeah, so our company, smart solves vision is to make packaging no longer trash. We realize the increased amount of plastic packaging, or just any packaging unnecessary consumption going on in the world today. So having an avenue or a smart solution of how to solve the problem, Michael Hingson  31:21 well, you can always come up with a new kind of straw that everybody can use, that they if they throw it away, it's not going to fill the world full of plastic. That's another story. Dana Prenger  31:35 Yeah. But in microplastics, to the increasing research and studies how microplastics are impacting human health and the environment. One of the fun facts we like to share is, well, not fun fact, but sad fact that by 2050 they project that plastic in the ocean will outweigh fish in the ocean. Michael Hingson  32:04 I hadn't heard that one, but I'm not surprised which it's so unfortunate. Dana Prenger  32:09 Yeah, great garbage patches of just waste forming out in the ocean. Michael Hingson  32:15 Is there a way, has anybody looked at the fact that, yeah, there's a lot of trash out there and so on, and it's great to come up with trash that won't be trash that will dissolve. But what do you do with all the stuff that's there? Has anybody been working at all on finding ways to dissolve that stuff as well? Dana Prenger  32:35 Yeah, I think that's harder, because it's already all out in the ocean, but there are efforts and people who go out and try to collect it, but then it's like, once we take it out of the ocean, where do we put it, just into massive landfill areas? Well, that's Michael Hingson  32:51 why I was wondering if there is some sort of a chemical process that could be introduced that would dissolve a lot of that material, rather than trying to collect it and take it somewhere, but I realize it's a much more of a significant challenge to do, because you don't want to hurt the fish and you don't want to hurt the ocean. But nobody has come up with a way to just dissolve all that plastic Dana Prenger  33:15 and stuff yet. Yeah, and our material is non toxic to fish, so it's we don't want people to we wouldn't say, just throw it in the ocean, but if it would end up litter becoming there, it would dissolve. Be safer fish. There's multiple end of life avenues for smart solves packaging, which is, yeah, flushable too. So some customers of ours are like toilet bowl cleaner cleaners or feminine care tampon packages that is flushable, so you can just flush the packaging down the toilet Michael Hingson  33:49 right, which, you know, and all of that is very important, but it still seems to me that hopefully somebody someday will figure out a way to dissolve All the stuff that's out in the ocean, yeah? Because I think collecting it is never going to happen as fast as it gets thrown in the ocean in the first place, Dana Prenger  34:09 yeah, especially in different countries around the world where there's not as adequate systems set up for landfills or recycling and waste is just much more incremental. Michael Hingson  34:22 So when you graduated and you started at Smart solves full time, what did you do? Dana Prenger  34:31 Yeah, so, actually, so the Ohio export internship program, I was a full time intern for the summer of 2023, okay, and then I was finishing my final year at school at BGSU, but they offered me to stay working part time. So I did work part time at Smart solve. My senior year of BGSU, I was a sales development rep, so business development, I had to do a lot of cold calling, so you just pick up the phone try to call people. So tell them about smart solve and so, yeah, I did that until I graduated in May, and then they kind of knew that they wanted more marketing support, and I liked marketing better than the sales prospecting. Sales, yeah, so they created a position for me, marketing coordinator, what was Michael Hingson  35:22 it like selling smart solve did you find that there were a lot of people who were very pessimistic or skeptical about what it could do? Or were you able to demonstrate pretty, pretty easily that in reality, sports fans it works? Dana Prenger  35:38 Yeah, I think smart solve products were easier than most things to sell and communicate about because, like we said, it really is a product that is better for people, better for the planet. I said our core values earlier in our vision, but our mission statement is enabling people to better care for the planet by pioneering Zero Waste packaging technologies, so smart solves. Big slogan is zero waste, zero hassle, zero hassle in the consumer. So it's cool to share that with prospects, and they would be more receptive, I feel like, than selling products that people don't necessarily need or want, but still in any industry, no matter how cool the product you have, when you're cold calling people on the phone, you're going to get some of those people that are like, how did you get my number? Or I don't want to talk, or just denies and ends the phone on you. So yeah. Well, that happened a lot of character building, doing that. Michael Hingson  36:38 I experience it oftentimes today, looking for speaking opportunities, even so, same concept, yep, and I've been selling my whole life, so I'm I'm fine when there are objections, when I at least there's a lot of truth to the to the fact when I at least get an objection, at least I can then go off and deal with it, but the people who just shut you down and you don't even get the opportunity to deal with the objection. That's a different story. Dana Prenger  37:06 Yeah, it really does. Michael Hingson  37:07 So was John a chemist? Or how did he develop Dana Prenger  37:11 all of this? Yeah, so John had a team of like, independent contractors that he would work with, and also just some of the knowledge with the water soluble label coming from CMC, but yeah, we have a lot of different team members now, research chemist employees that helped bring this product to life. And one of the cool things is doing a new product launch. So all of our typical water soluble materials we have today you can still buy, but we just now launched a new product called Pure nil zero, which is a completely plastic free, 100% bio based packaging substrate solution Michael Hingson  37:58 is packaging constructed like that, more are less stringent or sturdy than the more traditional kinds of packaging. Or is that something that you've been able to overcome and it's not any less durable? Dana Prenger  38:16 Yeah, it depends. It all depends on what you're trying to package in it. Yeah, it won't be as strong as plastic, but a lot of customers will use it for, like, powdered solutions. So obviously, if you have, like, liquid hand soap, you can't put that in our package, or it will start to break apart. But there's a lot of like, travel and convenience powdered packets that work great in our material. And the thing about pure no which is this new product, it is approved for direct food contact. So our other packaging is more agricultural, personal care, laundry, dish, a lot of those applications, this new product is approved for direct food packaging. So say you would have a powder drink, pack, mix, instant coffee, and eventually we want to get into more snack packaging, but there becomes certain limitations with oxygen and moisture barrier, Michael Hingson  39:12 yeah, well, you know, but that's still, it's it is really fascinating to hear about this, though, because there's, there's so much that that goes into it, it's really kind of fascinating to to see. Do you have customers all over or mainly in Ohio or what? Dana Prenger  39:33 Yeah, we do have customers all over the world. In fact, a lot in the European, European union, union that area, a few customers in the UK, since sustainability, new laws are happening all over. Michael Hingson  39:49 So you recently became the marketing manager. Tell us about that. Yeah. Dana Prenger  39:54 So yeah. I was very, very rapid upward marketing coordinator. For a while, and then just the end of this year, I got the promotion to Marketing Manager, which is great because I yeah, thank you. Get to manage content creators, to have somebody that creates blogs for us, somebody that helps with video support, especially because the water soluble material, it is so cool to see it, dissolve yourself. So yeah, doing a lot of video creation, and then, as I mentioned earlier, we're hiring for a digital content coordinator, a full time in office role. Michael Hingson  40:34 So are other companies doing the same kinds of things that smart solve does? Dana Prenger  40:39 There's a few, not a ton, but there's other bio based solutions. So for example, one company is using seaweed to make packaging, and there's other bio based materials, but not many water soluble packaging. Michael Hingson  40:57 So what makes smart solve unique? Dana Prenger  41:00 Yeah, we are unique for the ability to help you come to market with it. Our materials printable too. So some of the other like plastic PVA based, say laundry packs or dish packs, it's that plastic ours. You can print on it so you can have certain branding or safety warning instructions. Remember the challenge few years back when kids were trying to eat Tide Pods? We say, how different would it be if you could have had a big warning logo or image on the pod itself for them not to consume? Michael Hingson  41:38 Yeah, well, that's of course, the issue is, will they really pay attention to it or not? Dana Prenger  41:45 Yeah, also true, but we do think there's a good branding perspective too. Just to have brand on it, have instructions. We get. Our packaging is a little bit more expensive than just plastic and traditional uses, but we try to show our benefit by being better for the planet, better for the environment, and you do get a lot of good marketing. ROI, some of our customers have said using the materials and videos and being able to make a lot of sustainable claims has helped their company Michael Hingson  42:21 as a whole. So what kind of goals do you basically have as the marketing manager at Smart solve for what you're looking to do over the next few years? Dana Prenger  42:31 Yeah, one of my big grows goals is just growing, growing our followers, growing our reach. I feel like not a lot of people know about smart solve or know about our materials. So we have a LinkedIn page, since we are a B to B business, we also have Facebook and Instagram, but LinkedIn is our primary social that I'm looking to grow. So I think I shared with you smart solves LinkedIn profile, if you want to include that, or if any of the listeners today want to give us a follow, I'd really appreciate it. Michael Hingson  43:03 Well, absolutely that makes sense to do. Dana Prenger  43:07 Well also just increasing website. I help add new pages on our website, increasing our web visitors, new traffic, and creating more leads and sales qualified opportunities for our sales team, Michael Hingson  43:21 so dealing with diversity and and such, what do you do to make sure that your materials are accessible for people who don't necessarily read the print or who aren't going to be able to see pictures on the websites and so on. Do you have you all done a lot with that yet? Dana Prenger  43:42 Yeah, we're getting into improving and open to recommendations and suggestions. A lot of with the package itself, we leave up to the individual brands who sure have the product, because we're just the packaging supplier, not actually the end brand that uses it, but yeah, our website, I we use a site to do that, trying to become more accessible. There's so many ways to learn and do it, so, yeah, Michael Hingson  44:15 well, but it makes sense to do so with all the sports and stuff background that you've had, and we talked about this a little bit already, but what lessons from sports and leadership and all of your experiences have translated most into what you're doing today? Dana Prenger  44:37 Yes, I would say I'll tie it back to drive that one of our core values at Smart solve, and just as an athlete, having to really drive, whether that be your mental state, getting in the right mindset before a game or big competition meet, you. And just putting your effort into your skill to perfect it Michael Hingson  45:06 well, and an important thing to do by any standard. So, you know, a lot of people have jobs, they have worked in various places, they've matured and so on, but a lot of times there's kind of a defining moment that shows them that what they're doing is really what they wanted to do and so on. Do you have a defining moment like that that said this is really it? Dana Prenger  45:37 Yeah, that's a good question. And I think life is a journey, and there's always going to be small moments throughout I haven't had one big knock me off my feet moment that's shaped everything, but more kind of collectively built up small moments, small hurdles, small challenges that's got me where I am Today, any specific challenge that comes to mind, yeah, I would say. I would say, just going through college and yeah, figuring out my path and different setbacks along the way, throughout, trying to figure out my major and things and one of a small, funny setback, but not that big of one. I mentioned it as I was 16 years old, going to get my driver's license from sports. I had an injury and sprained my ankle, so I couldn't walk at the time, but I really wanted to get my driver's license, and it was my left foot, so not my right foot. So I my parents, the car that we had was a minivan with all my siblings, so Driver's Ed test, I'm pull up in this minivan, and I didn't want to let that setback delay me from passing my driver's test, so I had my crutches, crutched out, put my crutch in the back of the car, and then drove, using my right foot to pass my driver's test. Michael Hingson  47:10 And you passed your test, huh? Yes, and you did well on the written part as well, yep. Well, all I have to say is I think you should come out here to Victorville and spend a little bit of time the way people drive out here is crazy. I still submit that they ought to let me have a license, because I am sure that the way I would drive is every bit as good as the way people drive in Victorville right now. Wow, I don't see the problem myself. Dana Prenger  47:40 Yeah, and it's crazy. With innovation, the new things coming up, like nowadays, the autonomous vehicles, I'm curious to see in the next years how that will impact driving. When I am older and have children, when will they have to get their driver's test like that? Or there's some bold suggestions that say in many years to come, you won't have to drive a car. Michael Hingson  48:07 Well, I, in all seriousness, am really of the opinion that it will be great when autonomous vehicles are really as stable and as foolproof as they ought to be, because I think that we really do need to take driving out of the hands of drivers. It's just too many people to do too many crazy things on the road. The reality is that for blind people, and it's not going to be in prime time, certainly in the very near future, but the National Federation of the Blind challenged private universities and companies to develop a car a blind person could drive, and I don't mean an autonomous vehicle, but literally one that would provide the information so that a blind person could drive it just like a sighted person. And if you really look at driving, what is driving and why is it that blind people can't do it well, the answer is, because we don't have a way to get the information in as timely and as functional a way as sighted drivers do with eyesight. And the the people who realize that actually developed a vehicle that a blind person could drive. If you go visit the website of the National Federation of the Blind nfb.org, and search for Blind Driver Challenge, you can actually see a video of a blind man driving a vehicle around the Daytona Speedway right before the 2011 Rolex 24 race. Wow, and he wasn't driving it with people communicating with him through walkie talkies or anything like that, the car was literally transmitting the information to him that allowed him to drive the vehicle, drive through obstacle courses and do a variety of other things, pass a vehicle and so many other things. Because the fact is, today, the technology exists to provide that information to blind people, but it's not ready for prime time, and probably won't be, but autonomous vehicles are coming, and I really am looking forward to the time that they really work and work well, because they're going to make life a whole lot better for everyone. And I'm serious when I say taking the hand, the driving out of the hands of drivers, is pretty important to look at, yeah, so it'll be interesting to see how all that goes. So we've been talking about drive why other why? Else wise, did you really want to use Drive and make that kind of a theme for what we're talking about today? Dana Prenger  50:48 Yeah, I think drive just reflects the path that people have for life. And drive you always want to keep going being a goal oriented, focused person. There's a lot of things, and other people do experience many setbacks. And what I've learned from your story as well. When trouble would come your way, you didn't just stop. You kept moving, kept driving in a direction. Sometimes you might not always get from point A to point B. You might have to do a little bit of a detour in the journey of the drive, but yeah, that's kind of why I thought drive would be a good conversation topic word for today's podcast. Michael Hingson  51:29 But the reality is that that you can succeed. I tell people all the time that I reject the concept of the term fail, because if you fail, that's kind of an end all. You just, you just screwed up. Well, you didn't screw up. The issue isn't failure. The issue is what do you learn from it? And the issue is how you you move forward. And so I've learned that in reality, when things don't go right, I'm my own best teacher. I'm the one that has to take that information and internalize it and figure out how to move forward, people can suggest people can help. And I think that's important. But for me, personally, and for every individual on the planet, ultimately, we have to internalize it and make it succeed, which is, I think, so very important. Dana Prenger  52:19 Yeah, connecting some of those points is what we would talk about in life design too, because students would come and if they wouldn't pass a certain class or wouldn't do a certain thing, they would see it as a failure. And it's reframing failure and redefining it that, yeah, it's not, in fact, a failure, but a learning opportunity and experience Michael Hingson  52:41 it is. It's a growth opportunity by any standard, and that is something that we all really need to work on, because failure just isn't isn't fair and it isn't right, and we've got to get away from thinking that it is, Dana Prenger  52:56 and even reframing your experiences or statements you choose to say and think and believe about yourself like I could. I'm, as I said, one of a younger professional. Sometimes it can be intimidating or room full of people that know more than you. I could be down on myself. And look at it and say, Oh, I'm the youngest here. I am most inexperienced. I don't have as much skills or sets, or I could reframe it and think of it in a positive light and say, I am young, I do. I offer a new mindset. I bring new skills, new things that aren't already established. So kind of having that confidence and positive outlook to be able to reframe Michael Hingson  53:42 the other part of that. The other part of that, though, is that, yeah, you're young and all of that. But clearly some people have thought that you have a lot to contribute, and you're already doing that. And so obviously life is, is a is a place where we can learn, and we do need to continue to learn, but, but the reality is that we can always find learning as an end, as an adventure, and something that we need to do. And I think that that's exactly what we should we should be doing regularly, because it's always all about learning, yep, which really makes a lot of sense. So for you, what's next? For you? Do you have any notion? Dana Prenger  54:32 Yeah, I think I'm excited to continue developing this role, this new marketing manager role at Smart solve. I do like to travel. As I said, I've been to a lot of different countries, so wanting to further learn more about the world, new people, new places. Yeah, I want to have a family. I have a boyfriend that we're getting kind of serious. So looking for. To that next phase of my life and how well of a role model my mom was for me, I do want to be a mom as well someday. Cool. What countries have you been to? Yeah, I've been to Mexico, been to Portugal, been to Spain, one of the recent family trips. We just got back from Costa Rica. It was gorgeous there. We left right after Christmas and got back January 7 of this year. So that's why I'm still a little tan from the trip for you. But yeah, it was a good mix of adventure, zip lining, rock climbing, hiking, and then also just getting to relax and be in warm weather by a beach. Michael Hingson  55:46 What are what other countries, Dana Prenger  55:49 other countries that I've been to, went to Punta Cana, that was a very nice one, that Dominican Republic as the country, yeah. Michael Hingson  56:02 Cool. So the whole family went, Dana Prenger  56:07 yeah, all six of us. Wow. It works out nice because I have one sister and two brothers, and then my mom and dad. So it's kind of perfect, three and three, three girls, three boys. Michael Hingson  56:18 Yeah, that's, that's pretty cool. I'm glad that you you get a chance to have some of those experiences. What have you learned by going to other countries? Dana Prenger  56:29 Yeah, I've learned a lot just the way of life, the way they do things. Speaking of since we just got back from Costa Rica, one of the sayings they say all the time is Pura Vida, just pure life and kind of a more, not as upbeat, fast, hard paced environment as the US more free, yeah. But also it depends on the trip too. I've done some local mission trips. I wanted to do an international mission trip. I had it scheduled, but then that's when covid happened, so I had to cancel that. So bucket list coming up soon, I'm going to do a international mission trip. But it is different when you're traveling for just enjoyment vacation versus other purposes. Michael Hingson  57:19 You find that a lot of places where you visited, don't tend to take, and I don't mean this in a negative way at all, but don't take life as seriously as we tend to try to do here. Yeah, yeah. And it's, and it makes a lot of sense to lighten up a little bit, and then ought to do more of that. Well, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Dana Prenger  57:42 Yeah, they can message me on LinkedIn if they have a LinkedIn profile, or they can go to smart solve website, contact us through there. What's your LinkedIn name to me? Yeah, Dana, just my name. You can search it. Dana pranger. Dana, D, a n, a pranger, P R, E N, G, E R, Michael Hingson  58:04 okay, well, I hope people will do that. This has been fun, and you've got a lot of good insights that you've offered, and we're going to have to after you your marketing for a while, we'll have to have you come back and tell us Dana Prenger  58:19 more stories. Yeah, that would be wonderful. And, yeah, thank you for having me as a guest. Super fun. Yeah, we'll see you, John. Yeah. Now we'll get John on and he can, I gave you a little warm up to smart solve. He can get into more of the details. Michael Hingson  58:36 Well, I want to thank you, and I want to thank everyone for being here today. We really appreciate it. Love it. If you'd give us a five star rating wherever you are, and also, even more important than a rating, please give us a very positive review. We really love your reviews. People will and do monitor and read and watch these podcasts more when people review them. So we'd love you to voice your thoughts. If you'd like to reach out to me. I would love to hear from you, and especially if you might know and Dana you as well. If anyone else, in addition to John, who ought to come out on on unstoppable mindset podcast, feel free to email me, and we're changing the address so it's easy. It's speaker, S, P, E, A, K, E, R, at Michael hingson, M, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, O, n.com. Love to hear from you. Love to get your thoughts. And we'll we'll value them a lot. And if you know people who ought to come on, please introduce us. But again, Dana, I want to thank you for being here. This has been absolutely a lot of fun, and hopefully we'll get to do it some more in the future. Dana Prenger  59:48 So thank you. Yes, this was great. Thank you, Michael, Michael Hingson  59:55 thank you for being here with me on unstoppable mindset. I hope to. Day's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about if you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook blinded by fear, it explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening, keep learning, keep questioning and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset. You you.

This interview is with Doug & Dionne Irvine of Irvine & Roberts Vineyards. In this interview, Doug and Dionne talk about moving to Ashland to raise their family, discovering a love for wine in Europe, and beginning their brand.Dionne shares about growing up in Los Angeles county until high school, when her family moved to Brookings. Though she now realizes that she developed a fondness for Oregon at that time, she went back to California after graduation and started her real estate career. She met Doug when he came to her to purchase a house.Doug talks about growing up on a ranch near Jacksonville and moving to Huntington Beach for high school. He went to college at UC Irvine and stayed in the area after graduation. He also played baseball growing up, and for a short stint in Australia.Later in the interview, Doug and Dionne discuss moving back to Oregon to raise their daughters. Unbeknownst to them, they had purchased a site that was perfect for growing Burgundian varietals like Pinot Noir and Chardonnay. After falling in love with wine in Europe, they wanted to begin planting vines in Ashland in 2007.As they started to produce more wine, they moved winemaking operations to Quady North/Barrel 42, where Brian Gruber was part of the team. After the completion of the tasting room and winery building onsite, they hired Vince Vidrine to oversee winemaking. When he left to pursue wine elsewhere, Brian Gruber came on as their head winemaker once again, but this time in their own facility.This interview was conducted by Rich Schmidt at Irvine & Roberts Vineyards in Ashland on March 16, 2026.

Meet Brittni Miller, everyone! Interior designer by day, dancer by night and weekend. Brittni is a very talented dancer and choreographer, but according to her, she didn't start out that way. It wasn't until her freshman year of high school when she made it for the JV dance team, that her coaches really started to see her potential and invest in training her well. It was also her love for dance that drove her to practice diligently and work hard on her own, which led her to make the varsity team her sophomore year. Brittni grew up doing ballet, tap, and jazz, but her main focus in high school was jazz and pom. She even thought about pursuing cheerleading professionally! But she considers herself more of a calculated-risk type of person and wanted to have a more stable job rather than solely relying on dance for money. Even so, she got into UC Irvine by auditioning and being accepted into their competitive dance program. She ended up majoring in social ecology but still took dance classes there and performed in many dance pieces, often contemporary. (Sidenote: She also studied abroad and learned ballroom while in the UK!) Since college, she takes classes at various studios around LA and performs regularly with LA Unbound and NACHMO, among others. She's choreographed multiple pieces, where she loves to use dance to tell a story of relationships and connection, often with her signature whirling contemporary style. Brittni is so passionate about dance and finding good dance teachers, as she recognizes the life-changing influence they can have. She also loves teaching herself and hopes to one day have a regular class where she can do the same for others.Follow our dance journeys on Instagram:@brittnimillerryo    @DanceJourneyPodcast@TracyinLA

Daniel Whiteson is a particle physicist at UC Irvine and an active researcher at CERN's Large Hadron Collider — the largest machine ever built — where 5,000 scientists are using high-energy collisions to read the universe's secret menu. He co-hosts the show Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe, co-created an award-winning science show for preschoolers, and recently wrote a book asking whether aliens would even recognize our physics at all. His work sits at the collision point of experimental science, philosophy, and the biggest unanswered questions in physics — what everything is made of, why gravity is so weak, and whether the universe has a bottom. DANIEL LINKS sites.uci.edu/daniel X - @DanielWhiteson Podcast - Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

STREAMING THE MAKING OF THE JOHN BATCHELOR SHOW, FEATURING JEFF BLISS AND GERMANICUS (MICHAEL VLAHOS). 4-17-202681 BCE SULLAJeff Bliss and John Batchelor discuss the vibrant developments in Las Vegas, where the President of the United Statesrecently arrived on Air Force One to promote a "no tax on tips" policy. The city is diversifying, becoming a sports mecca with Formula 1, World Wrestling at Allegiant Stadium, and a potential NBA franchise. Bliss recalls the legacy of the Rat Pack, Elvis, and Sinatra, while noting new landmarks like the Museum of Ice Cream in Area 15. Additionally, a massive In-N-Out burger restaurant is being built on the Strip, and the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino is adding rare balcony suites. Batchelor even jokes about a future Museum of Potato Chips featuring Lays.In California politics, the race to succeed Governor Gavin Newsom is intensifying under the Jungle Primary system. Newsom reportedly spent 1.5 million dollars to purchase 67,000 copies of his own book. Current candidates include Steve Hilton, a former Fox contributor; Tommy Steyer, a multi-billionaire; and UC Irvine professor Katie Porter. In Los Angeles, Mayor Karen Bass faces a tight race against Spencer Pratt. Batchelor mentions an interview between Bass and Jim Acosta on CNN, where she appeared defensive regarding homeless encampments in Venice and Hollywood.Other local issues involve the California Coastal Commission canceling Long Beach fireworks. On Catalina Island, once a secret CIA training ground, Batchelor recalls the Four Freshmen singing about the sea while discussing a police canine apprehending a suspect in Avalon. Bliss recounts his own experience being bitten by a German Shepherd when analyzing the intensity of such arrests. Additionally, a massive Animal Crossing bridge is under construction across a Southern California freeway to protect wildlife like buffalo.Globally, Germanicus warns of the "consolidation" of wars. Russia is reportedly upset by Ukrainian drone attacks launched from the Baltic states and Finland. Germanicus explains that 96% of Russian casualties are now caused by drones produced in Europe, Israel, and Turkey. Germanicus also highlights that leaders like Emmanuel Macron and Keir Starmer are meeting to address the crisis at the Strait of Hormuz. Despite a fragile ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon, there remains a risk of "spasmodic responses" involving Russia's hypersonic Oreshnik missiles. John Batchelor concludes the session by noting that there is no certainty anywhere in the world except for their conversation. This dialogue captures the intersection of local entertainment, state politics, and global military strategy during a volatile and high-stakes historical period in history.

Bioethicist and psychiatrist Dr. Aaron Kheriaty, author of “Making the Cut: How to Heal Modern Medicine,” discusses declining public trust in healthcare. Kheriaty describes his medical training and argues medicine has become an industrial, bureaucratic “turnstile” system that dehumanizes care, turns physicians into data-entry clerks, and relies on reimbursement-driven “guidelines” and narrow evidence-based medicine that favors costly pharmaceuticals. He proposes creating “parallel” grassroots medical institutions—such as direct primary care—analogous to homeschooling and Eastern European dissidents' “parallel polis,” since systemic reform from within is difficult. Kheriaty recounts opposing COVID vaccine mandates at UC Irvine, being fired after suing, and participating in Missouri v. Biden and Ho v. Newsom, which challenged government-influenced social-media censorship and California's physician “misinformation” law. He also discusses informed consent, assisted suicide opposition, and advocating opt-in organ donation.

Dr. Coleman is a psychologist in private practice in the San Francisco Bay Area and a Senior Fellow with the Council on Contemporary Families, a non-partisan organization of leading sociologists, historians, psychologists and demographers dedicated to providing the press and public with the latest research and best practice findings about American families. He is a frequent contributor to The Atlantic and The Washington Post's "Ask a Therapist" column and has also written for The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Scientific American, NBC THINK, The Behavioral Scientist, Maria Shriver Sunday Paper, CNN, MarketWatch, the San Francisco Chronicle, and more. He has given talks to the faculties at Harvard, the Weill Cornell Department of Psychiatry, UC Irvine, Ohio State and other academic institutions. A frequent guest on the Today Show, NPR, New York University Doctor's Radio, he has also been featured on Oprah, Sesame Street, 20/20, Good Morning America, PBS, as well as podcasts for The Atlantic, The Economist, CNN with Audie Cornish and Yasha Mounk's The Good Fight. He is the author of numerous articles and chapters and has written four books: The Rules of Estrangement (Random House); The Marriage Makeover: Finding Happiness in Imperfect Harmony (St. Martin's Press); The Lazy Husband: How to Get Men to Do More Parenting and Housework (St. Martin's Press); When Parents Hurt: Compassionate Strategies When You and Your Grown Child Don't Get Along (HarperCollins) He is the co-editor, along with historian Stephanie Coontz of seven online volumes of Unconventional Wisdom: News You Can Use, a compendium of noteworthy research on the contemporary family, gender, sexuality, poverty, and work-family issues. His books have been translated into Chinese, Korean, Russian, Polish, and Croatian. Dr. Coleman is the father of three adult children, has a teenage grandson and lives with his wife in the San Francisco Bay Area. He also writes music for television which has appeared on Keeping Up With the Kardashians, Lethal Weapon, Chicago Fire, Chicago PD, Pretty Little Liars, Longmire, Shameless, RuPaul's Drag Race, and many other shows. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When the first Earth Day was recognized, on April 22, 1970, 20 million Americans – at the time, 10 percent of the total U.S. population – demonstrated in gatherings around the country to protest industrial developments that had led to serious human health impacts. And so began the modern environmental movement. The theme for Earth Day 2026 is “Our Power, Our Planet” – chosen to emphasize that everyone can further environmental progress. One wrong trying to be righted by researchers in UC Irvine's Joe C. Wen School of Population & Public Health involves per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances – a massive group of synthetic chemical compounds that don't break down easily. Known as PFAS, they are pervasive and persistent. The most studied of these “forever chemicals” indicate a toxicity that affects liver and thyroid function, and some have been shown to lead to cancer. In 2019, Scott Bartell, professor of environmental and occupational health, launched the UCI PFAS Health Study after receiving a grant from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to lead California's contribution to a national multisite probe. In this episode of The UC Irvine Podcast, Bartell will share what drew him to the study of environmental contaminants, where PFAS are found and how people can decrease their exposure. He'll also update what his team has learned about PFAS and what work is left to be done, as well as grade how the human race is doing in its efforts to take better care of the planet. “Walking in the Sky,” the music for this episode, was provided by Nico Staf via the audio library in YouTube Studio.

Kanoa and Billy talk about Hawaii Athletics and the end of the NBA Regular Season as they give their LTS NBA Awards.UH baseball coach Keith Zuniga joins the show to talk about his pitchers after a solid weekend against UC Irvine, as well as an important road trip coming up for the Rainbows. Christian Shimabuku joins the show to talk about his opinions on everything, from the NBA Awards, to Hawaii's Bare Knuckle Fighting Championship on Saturday and Hawaii Athletics.

The American Public Health Association was formed in 1872, when scientific advances were starting to reveal the causes of contagious diseases. For over 150 years, the APHA has championed “optimal, equitable health and well-being for all,” and in 1995, President Bill Clinton signed an executive order declaring that the first full week of April each year would be National Public Health Week – a celebration organized annually by the APHA. In 2026, National Public Health Week will be celebrated April 6 through 12. This year's theme is “Ready. Set. Action!” The APHA is asking people to “look back at the progress we've made” and “look forward to the steps needed for an even healthier future.” We'll request the same of Bernadette Boden-Albala in this episode of The UC Irvine Podcast. In a wide-ranging conversation, the founding dean of the Joe C. Wen School of Population & Public Health reflects on the transformations she's witnessed since arriving at UC Irvine in 2019 and what it will take for health and well-being to thrive. She shares insights from her latest research on stroke and cardiovascular disease, the role of social networks in disease prevention, and how community partnerships – paired with stronger advocacy for science and investment in women's health – can improve health outcomes for everyone. “Rising Sun,” the music for this episode, was provided by DivKid via the audio library in YouTube Studio.

COVERING IT ALL IN THIS 50 MIN INTERVIEW...BOTOX, GLPs, SUPPLEMENTS, ANXIETY/STRESS, HEALTHCARE OUTSIDE STATES, RED LIGHT THERAPY, With over 30 years as a board-certified primary care physician, Dr. Jeffrey Barke offers trusted medical expertise and a bold, unapologetic voice in the fight for patient autonomy. A graduate of UC Irvine and co-founder of Personal Concierge Physicians in Newport Beach, he combines conventional medicine with natural solutions through personalized care, Telehealth services, and physician-grade supplements.As an author, educator, and co-host of the Informed Dissent podcast, Dr. Barke is known nationwide for challenging the medical establishment and defending freedom in healthcare. His work has earned him a loyal following among patients and professionals seeking truth, transparency, and choice.His mission continues through RxForLiberty — a platform dedicated to restoring common sense in medicine and empowering Americans to take control of their health.instagram: @rxforlibertWebsite: rxforliberty.com

What if the real secret to business growth is not creativity but competition? I sat down with Chris Dreyer, founder of Rankings.io, who built one of the fastest-growing legal marketing companies by mastering SEO, niche focus, and relentless execution. Chris shares how his early work ethic shaped his path, why he chose the highly competitive personal injury space, and how treating business like a math-based game helped him scale. You will hear how content, reviews, and authority drive Google rankings, why most lawyers misunderstand marketing, and how narrowing your focus can actually expand your results. I believe you will find this useful as Chris shows how discipline, data, and consistency can turn any business into an unstoppable force. Highlights: 00:56 – How early work and family habits built a strong work ethic05:00 – Why taking the hardest job created resilience and grit12:12 – How serving people helped develop communication and confidence24:22 – Why choosing a competitive niche leads to greater success37:08 – What it takes to rank at the top of Google consistently51:16 – How doing free work early builds skill and long-term growth Bottom of Form About the Guest: Chris Dreyer is the CEO and Founder of Rankings.io, the category-defining SEO agency built exclusively to help elite law firms and personal injury lawyers dominate Google's organic search results. Under his leadership, Rankings.io has become synonymous with measurable results, helping attorneys secure life-changing cases through visibility at the exact moment potential clients are searching for help. The company has achieved what few in the legal marketing space ever have, earning a spot on the Inc. 5000 list of fastest-growing private companies for eight consecutive years, proof of both sustained growth and relentless execution. Beyond Rankings, Chris is a builder of platforms and a voice of authority in legal marketing and entrepreneurship. He is the Wall Street Journal and USA Today best-selling author of Niching Up: The Narrower the Market, the Bigger the Prize, where he details how focus creates outsized impact. He is also a seasoned real estate investor and the host of the Personal Injury Mastermind podcast, where he interviews top attorneys and business leaders shaping the future of law. His influence extends across respected councils and networks, including the Forbes Agency Council, Rolling Stone Culture Council, Business Journals Leadership Trust, Fast Company Executive Board, and Newsweek Expert Forum, cementing his reputation as both a practitioner and thought leader. Chris's path to entrepreneurship has been unconventional yet relentlessly instructive. Once a world-ranked collectible card game competitor, he carried that same strategic mindset into business. After earning a History Education degree, his first professional role was as a detention room supervisor, hardly glamorous, but it provided the unstructured time that sparked his obsession with digital marketing. He began experimenting with affiliate sites and, at his peak, managed more than 100 properties simultaneously. This side hustle soon eclipsed his day job, propelling him into full-time entrepreneurship. When affiliate marketing's golden age waned, Chris pivoted into legal SEO and quickly carved out a niche. Along the way, he also became a top-ranked online poker player, honing skills in risk management and probability that would serve him well in scaling his companies. Today, Chris runs Rankings.io with the same competitive fire he once brought to cards and poker, driven to outthink, outwork, and outlast the competition. His mission is simple: help the best personal injury law firms win more cases, build enduring legacies, and dominate their markets. Ways to connect with Chris**:** website: rankings.io https://x.com/chrisdreyerco https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisdreyerco/ https://www.facebook.com/chrisdreyerco https://www.instagram.com/chrisdreyerco/ About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:04 What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe Welcome to unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. I'm your host. Michael Hingson, speaker, author and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head on and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear, together, we focus on mindset resilience and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi everyone, and welcome to another edition of unstoppable mindset. Today, our guest is Chris Dreyer. Chris, Chris has formed a company called rankings.ai. And I'm going to let him describe what all that is about. And he's done some pretty interesting things with it. It has been on inks top 5000 companies, growing companies for the past eight years. Eight years is a long time, which is pretty cool. So I'm sure he's got lots of adventures and lots of stories to talk about. So Chris, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're glad you're Chris Dreyer  01:35 here. Yeah, thanks for having me, Michael. I'm excited to chat. Michael Hingson  01:39 Well, let's start with kind of the early Chris growing up and all that, and see where we go from there. It sounds Chris Dreyer  01:45 good to me. So yeah, Michael Hingson  01:46 let's go. Why don't you tell us a little bit about Yeah, school and all that stuff. Chris Dreyer  01:51 Okay, yeah, let me, let me, and then you just cut me off at any point, because I can be a long Michael Hingson  01:55 talker the so can I? I Chris Dreyer  01:56 know what you mean. I, I grew up in a very small city, elkville, Illinois, my high school had 100 people in it. I was a graduating class of 28 I grew up, I would say it's kind of weird. My mom and dad, if they heard me say poor, would not love me saying poor, but I we weren't. We were certainly at the bottom of middle class or the upper or poor. I had a lot of chores. I every single weekend, I cleaned a law office with my mom or did something at the farmers market. So and at the time, it wasn't work. It was just what we did as a family, right? I didn't even understand it. We had, we didn't have city water. We had to get a truck and bring in our water, and we had well water, right? And in my family, and that was, that was early on, right? My dad was a milk carrier. My mom was a cook and and ultimately, they did better over the years and made more money. But it started off, it was a lot, a lot of grit, perseverance, working hard. And I like to share that, because my parents work ethic is very strong, very dependable, very consistent. And that's kind of where I got my drive. But that's, that's kind of how I grew up, small, small town, you know, a lot of side hustles with the parents. And once I went to college, I got that, that shock of, oh, here's a whole bunch of go from 100 to, you know, 20,000 Yeah, it's a bit of a shock there. 03:35 Where'd you go to college? Chris Dreyer  03:36 Yeah, I went to SIU, Southern Illinois University. There in Carbondale, Illinois. I actually live in Carbondale today. And, you know, I went to college. I was always had that entrepreneurial bug, and, but I went to college, it was kind of to make mom and dad happy to get that degree and, but I just knew that I was going to own my own business. And I kind of had that conversation with them out of the gate, but so I was a terrible student. Partied a lot, you know, chase the women, so to speak, and but somehow, ended up with a degree, got a job at a high school as their JV basketball coach, and I started doing internet marketing on the side to make a little extra money because I had some downtime. And by the end of my second year teaching, I was making about four times the amount doing that that I was teaching. So that was kind of my sign, and to go pursue that full time, and that's what I did. That's when I left to do affiliate marketing and digital marketing full time was after Michael Hingson  04:41 that second year, of course. Now the real question is, you were chasing the women? Did any of them 04:44 chase you? Oh yeah, oh yeah. Just Michael Hingson  04:49 want to make sure it's reciprocal here. Yeah, that's that's pretty cool, though. And I was going to ask you, and you sort of answered it, about your workout. Ethic and so on. I find that if people do grow up in an environment where they're working and they appreciate what they do get and the amount of work that they do, and they develop a strong work ethic, or their parents have it, they generally do as well, although sometimes there's some rebellions, but still, ultimately, the right stuff shows through. Chris Dreyer  05:24 Can I tell just a brief story about that? My mom, when I turned 16, it was like, you're getting a job, son, right? And it was not, we had, we were fine without, but it was like, so she took me to this place. It was called Ken's antiques, and they used to do the semi truck deliveries of aluminum, and I used to go to auctions and unload furniture. And I asked her, I was like, Why did you take me there? Well, you know, why didn't you take me to the mall? Why didn't you know to go work at a the buckle or the gap or something, you know, why did you take me? There she goes. Well, I knew if you could, if you could succeed here, you'd be fine anywhere, because it was the hardest job that I could think of. And I was like, Oh, really, thanks, Mom. Like, send me to the to the hardest job that you could think of and see if I could thrive. And I did well there. But that just kind of goes to show you the mindset that my mom had racing me, which also kind of, you know, attached to me as well. Michael Hingson  06:26 Yeah, well, and I can appreciate course, now looking back on it, of course, but I can appreciate what she said, because if you can survive in one place, and you can if it's if it is a tough job and you approach it the right way, then you'll probably be good anywhere, and there you go. Chris Dreyer  06:47 Yep, yep, to her credit, it was a very tough job. It is as still to this day, the hardest job from a physically demanding perspective that I had, but, but yeah, and it was good. It built resilience, you know, kind of helped me get that that put that true grit on and yeah, so that's kind of my background. Michael Hingson  07:08 I never did really work at a job growing up, my brother did. He worked at a restaurant and so on and bus tables and did other things. But I remember, when he got his first job, he went and applied at a at a restaurant, and the owner or manager, I guess probably both said, so, you know, we'll, we'll consider you. Would you do us a favor? There's some weeds out in the in the front, would you go pull those? And he said, within about a half hour, he got the whole place completely cleaned up of weeds. And the boss came out and said, You did all of that. And my brother said, Yeah. And guy said, You're hired. You know, amazing, you know, because my brother didn't even realize, I think at first, that that was really a test, but it was, and of course, he passed, which was cool. That's a great story, but I never got really to do much work. I kind of was more the intellectual guy in the family, and finding jobs would have been a little bit more of a challenge for me. I did do some babysitting, but that was about all I could do. I've been blind my whole life, and a lot of the jobs that were available in Palmdale, where I grew up in Southern California, were not jobs I was going to realistically be able to do anyway, but I could babysit, and that worked out pretty well. Yeah, yeah. So I mainly studied, Chris Dreyer  08:41 love it. So So studied. Can I? Can I do the reverse interview? What's some of your your top motivational books, business books? Because I'm sure you've got some that just pop top of the dome. Well, sort of, kind Michael Hingson  08:55 of, I really have a slightly different idea about that, but I'll tell you, I've read a number of the main books in the whole motivational and and management world. One Minute Manager is a book I appreciate a great deal. And I also like Dale Carnegie books like How to Win Friends and Influence People. But for me, I point out, and even to this day point out that I've learned more about teamwork and trust and leadership from working with eight Guide Dogs for the last 61 years than I ever learned from all the management and leadership books and everything else that's out there, mainly because working with dogs, you have several things that are An issue, first of all, respecting them and the job that they do, knowing that you're really forming a team with a guide dog, where each member of the team has a job to do. So in my case, the dog, and the case of people who use guide dogs, the purpose of the dog is to make sure that we walk safely as. We're walking somewhere, but my job is to know where to go and how to get there, and then I have to learn how to communicate that to the dog, and also be the leader of the pack in the truest sense of the word, which also means that if the dog is upset, or there is any kind of an issue with the dog, I have to figure out what that is, and I have to read what is going on so that I understand that and can then figure out what is occurring and make sure that the dog stays happy so it's you. There's so much to learn about trust, and one of the main things I've learned over the years is while dogs do, I think love unconditionally, unless they're just so badly traumatized by somebody for some reason they don't trust unconditionally. But the difference between dogs and people is that dogs are open to trust a whole lot more than we are. We have just had so many things go on. We read we bought them in the newspapers, we see it on the news and so on. Nobody trusts anyone. The feeling is basically everyone has their own hidden agenda, and so you can't trust anyone. And so there's very little communications today. There's very little real interaction. And people, by definition, don't trust. Dogs are open to trust, and you can earn their trust, and likewise, they get to and can earn your trust, and it is a it is a combination and kind of thing. So what I really learn when I go to get a new guide dog every time is I'm learning how to form a team with this other dog who doesn't speak the same language I do, who doesn't think the way I do. But I have to figure out what this dog does, what this dog is all about, and I'm the one that has to become the leader of the of the team and make things work. So I think that working with a dog is a lot more of a practical experience kind of thing than just reading about whatever there is to read about in books and so on. So that's why I say that. I think I've learned a lot more by working with dogs than I ever got from all the management books in the world, any of the Tony Robbins books, or any Chris Dreyer  12:07 of those. I love, every bit of that I just I was on x the other day, and it was talking about the the new CEO for Starbucks, right? Because the former CEO was McKinsey trained, right, but didn't have any actual experience at the helm. And then they brought back the former CEO of Taco Bell over to Starbucks, and the stock immediately shot up because of the application aspect of it. He had, he had done the job and been in the grind. So it's kind of interesting, kind of corollary there. But yeah, thank you for sharing. I was really intrigued, and I had to jump in and and ask, Michael Hingson  12:45 Oh, fair question, and then this is a conversation, so nothing wrong with asking questions on either side. So it's perfectly fine to to be able to do that well, so what did you do right out of college? Chris Dreyer  12:59 Right out of college, the one thing I'll tell you that I still to this day, I call myself an introvert. I don't think that, you know, introvert, extrovert. I think we have the tendencies at all times to be either one, right? But I think for me, I was more shy, but I built a lot of friends because I played sports and I knew them in college, and then they met, they introduced me to their friends. Because you got to imagine, when I had a class of 28 kids, it's like super small community versus, you know, everybody I'm interacting through their connections and their extended connections. So through college, I'd say the main education thing I got was, I did get a job waiting tables for three years, and so I got a lot of client service training, dealing with people having a ton of conversations through that, through my through my job, and also through my personal relationships with my friends and and other, you know, Students at the University, but so I think that kind of helped, helped me succeed afterwards, but afterwards, really, when I student taught at Heron, they saw my work ethic. They saw a shoe up, that I showed up, that I listened and I took action. So they, they hired me immediately, and I did the same when I was a JV basketball coach. I never missed a practice. Was always on time. Really tried to develop the kids and bring the most out of them, treated the parents well, and so I think that's what I did well, and it kind of put me in the position to have time to learn internet marketing. So I think that's kind of how it all started, Michael Hingson  14:47 when I was getting my teaching credential at UC Irvine, and I also got my master's degree in physics from there. But I student taught at the local high school, at University High School, and I student. Taught two classes. One was a physics class, and it was kind of for they called it dumbbell physics, but you know, it was kids who were sort of interested in science, but really didn't know where they wanted to go. But the other class was algebra one, and I remember one day I was teaching, and one of the students asked a question, and I didn't know the answer to it, and I probably should have, but I didn't. But what I said was, I don't know the answer right off, tell you, what do you mind if I look at it tonight, get you the answer and bring it back tomorrow. And the kid who was an eighth grader, actually accelerated, so it was high school algebra one, but he was from the eighth grade. He said, Sure, so I went home and found the answer in the book, when I should have known that, but anyway, came back in the next day, and even before I could say anything, he said, Mr. Hingson, I went home and got the answer, and I said, Well, come up and write it on the board. And one of the things that I did with with all of my classes when, of course, we had blackboards and all that, back in those days, I would want a student to come up and be the board writer, because they write a lot better than I do. And so we, we had pretty good competitions of people who wanted to write on the board. They all thought it was kind of fun, and I did spread that wealth around, but Marty came up and I said, now you got to explain what you're writing. And he had actually found the answer, which was cool, but my master teacher was also the football coach, and when I first told Marty and the rest of the class, I don't know the answer, but I will get it after class was over, Mr. Redmond said you did something that's absolutely amazing and was absolutely the right thing to do, and most people wouldn't do it. And that was you admitted you didn't know the answer, but you would go get it rather than trying to blow smoke, because these kids can see through that in a second. And he said, So you did the right thing, and I've always felt that's the way to do it. If I don't know the answer, I'll go figure it out, but I will also tell you that I don't know the answer, and you can decide whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, but I think it's a good thing, to be honest, Chris Dreyer  17:22 I couldn't agree more. Michael Hingson  17:25 And so it was fun. And and what the the other part of the story, and I think I've told it a couple times on the podcast, is 10 years later, I was at the Orange County Fairgrounds, and this kid comes up to me, Well, he was, he didn't sound like a kid anymore. And he said, Mr. Hingson, do you know who this is? Deep voice. And I went, No, not right off. And he said, I'm Marty. I'm the guy that was in your algebra class 10 years ago. Nice to be remembered, but, but he he also just remembered what happened. And I think he even said it was so cool that I was honest with him about it, which was, you know, a life lesson anybody should learn. Chris Dreyer  18:09 That's incredible. That's incredible. So Michael Hingson  18:10 it was a lot of fun. Well, so you student taught and so on, but eventually you ended up deciding to go into the entrepreneur world. But you also were a card collector, right? A game collector, yeah. Chris Dreyer  18:25 And in high school, I played this collectible card game. I played a combination of two. I mean, most people are familiar with Magic, The Gathering, but I also played this other game called Legend of five rings. And both, you know, the collectible card games, but they're really math based games based upon advantage and and, you know, you so now it's applicable to today. I can look at any whether it's Pokemon or whatever card game there is. It's, it was very, you know, it's force based, you know, benefits to attack and things like that. It attributes everything. But anyways, I played it competitively, and I was a top I was a world ranked player at one time. I won four state championships or CO days. No one had done that at the time in a two consecutive years, and it was just a top player, and when you get to the top, you become friends with the other top players, and then you talk strategy and and that even takes you to an even higher level. And so I did that, you know, for many years, competed all over the country. It was a great experience. And so, yeah, that in my house. My dad very so he had, he was a civil engineer. He has an engineer degree, but he was traveling. He was on the railroad at all times, and he wanted to stop traveling, so he accepted this job as a mail carrier so he could stay put. And. Yeah, and that's what he did. He retired as a mail carrier, but, you know, a top math expert to the to the point where there would be conversations where you could, like, I couldn't understand him, right? He couldn't understand himself, right? And, and, and there's many conversations in different aspects of this. But when we played games, whether it was Yahtzee or monopoly or whatever, every game, there was a math based lesson to it, like, which dice you rolled for advantage at Yahtzee, which ones to hold after the first roll. Poker games, pitch games, Rummy, every single game it was, it was game theory. It was math on what was the precise the best role, like Monopoly, the best properties and the probability to get an orange property over other properties and and how much you should spend at certain points of the game. And I realized saying that outline that's that that's not normal. Some people just play yatse and roll the dice and they roll what they want, and some people play Monopoly and just buy the properties they want. That was not how games were played in my household, and it was very applicable to poker and to the collectible card games. Michael Hingson  21:22 Yeah. So how often did you want to buy Boardwalk and Park Place? Chris Dreyer  21:28 Not often. But I mean, so there. That was just how I was brought up. And yeah, and it turned into a lot of what I do today. Michael Hingson  21:42 Actually, I always like free parking. We had a thing where any money and and any kind of thing that you had to pay on all went into the free parking pot. So getting free parking was always fun. Oh yeah, but yeah, I hear what you're saying. I love monopoly and love to even play it against the computer, which was always a kind of a neat thing to do, but played Monopoly against other members of my family. Some we actually made a Well, we took a regular Monopoly board, and I think my father outlined the entire board and all the squares using elmer's glue so that we had raised lines for me to look at. Then we also did things to mark the paper money so I could tell what bills I had and and so on, and even Braille the cards. And I still have that game to this day, very neat, which is kind of cool, but monopoly spun. Chris Dreyer  22:36 Yeah, there's a lot of games that you know, there's no winner. You take my wife wants to play Scrabble all the time, and I'm like, there's just not a winner in Scrabble. Because if I challenge you on a word, and I'm right, you're wrong. You're mad if I beat you, you know, and then if I lose, it's not fulfilling for me. That's one of those games. There's no winner. Michael Hingson  23:02 I have a friend who plays Scrabble with his mother all the time, and and he, I think he loses more than he wins, but he's always proud when he beats her. And he's almost 60, so you know, she's, she's older than he is, but they, they play and have a lot of fun with Scrabble. Chris Dreyer  23:21 That's incredible. That's Michael Hingson  23:22 great. Yeah, it is kind of cool. But anyway, so you eventually decided to go off and go into the entrepreneurial world, and you started your company, or went well, when did you actually start the company? Chris Dreyer  23:37 Started the company officially in 2013 it was attorney rankings.org, that was the original name. Now it's rankings.io, I worked at a few agencies previously, while I was also doing the affiliate marketing, and kind of got to see the agency world of providing, you know, the professional services space. And after working at a few agencies. Thought that I could do it right. I got the confidence from the competence, and that's when I launched it. 2013 we've always been focused on legal. The difference today is primarily, we're focused on a sub niche of legal for personal injury law. And, you know, we work with other practice areas, criminal defense, family law, etc. But really personal injury is the is 85% of our business. Michael Hingson  24:27 So what is it that rankings.io? Does, Chris Dreyer  24:31 yeah, we do digital marketing. We do search engine optimization now, AI search, we do pay per click paid social web design. A lot of performance marketing, I would say more performance, less creative and branding. And that's what we do. We work with the top, the biggest pi firms, personal injury law firms in the country. We're in chiefs, I think every state we work with about. 250 law firms across the country. Michael Hingson  25:03 What made you decide to focus on law in the beginning? Chris Dreyer  25:09 Yeah, I'll say a few reasons. One, I had an experience working with attorneys, and I liked working with them. So there was the like component when I worked at an agency, I had a few firms that would I spoke with, and I enjoyed it. The second thing was, if I'm being honest, the status like I wanted to tell my parents that I did marketing for lawyers, and not just, you know, any industry. And then the other thing is, is I'm very, very, very competitive, and I kept seeing and hearing these reports about more and more attorneys going to law school and and just all this competition for legal and the thing that I differ you hear a lot of coaches and mentors. They'll say, hey, go to the blue ocean. You know, everyone's read the blue ocean book, or, you know, Peter thiel's zero to one, and everyone thinks so, go where there's no competition. And I'm like, That's fine if you're Elon or Peter Thiel or Zuckerberg creating something new, but if you're going into an existing category, you want to go where there is competition, because it demands expertise, and that's the way that I've looked at it. Like, you take the agency perspective, I don't want to go to, you know, lawn care, SEO like, do they really want to do search engine optimization? Do they really have a ton of competition? Maybe that's not a great example. But you get my point where, if you go into the city, there's a ton of personal injury law firms, but there's only a few that can rank at the top. And there's, they're all trying to gather cases from one another, so they want an expert to help them, you know, get that visibility. And that's, that's the mindset that Michael Hingson  26:58 went into it. What strikes me is interesting, though, is that with all of that, you bring a very competitive level to what you do. And I'm not sure that I find that a lot of people necessarily even do that, so you consider even search engine optimization to be a very competitive thing, I don't want to say sport, but you consider it all about competition, and you want to really bring the best and the most significant aspects of it to what you do. And that clearly has to show up when you're talking about Inc ranking you in the top companies for eight years in a row. Chris Dreyer  27:47 Yeah, it's very status orientation. You know, that's why I like working with trial attorneys. There's a winner and loser in court, and there's only one top position in Google or on these llms, and it's, who's gonna win, who's the best? Yeah, and it's right there for everyone. Here's here's the tally. Everyone can see who's the best. And I've always loved that. I think I heard a podcast recently by John Morgan. He's the founder of Morgan, Morgan, right? Of course. And you know, he's always a character and funny to listen to, but, yeah, he talks about being insatiable. Like, how did you grow this? He's like, Well, I'm insatiable. I I want to continue to grow. And for me, it's, it's the exact same thing. It's like, I'm insatiable. We hit a milestone. I want the next milestone. It is the game that I'm playing. I am playing like my hobby is my business. I enjoy it. I look forward to a Monday. It rewards me mentally. I enjoy the people I work with. And that's that's how we're at you know, Inc, 5008 years in a row, we'll definitely be on the ninth year next year, due to our growth this year. And it's that's just, that's just how I treat it. It's just a big game. And, you know, like any game, you play Sim City, whatever, you get a little bit more money, you get a little bit more buildings, right? You do a little bit better, you hire more talent, you expand your capabilities, and you just, if you don't stop, you're going to Michael Hingson  29:22 continue to grow. But it's a game in the mathematical sense, and it's it's a game in the the productive sense of what you're trying to do is, isn't the game just, although you obviously have to have fun in what you do, otherwise you wouldn't enjoy doing it. But it's a game in the mathematical sense of the word, oh, 100% Chris Dreyer  29:44 and so many people don't understand what I'm about to say. But like, every move that you make is a move based upon leverage in some capacity, yeah, and you take, because our time is all limited. You take. I'll give you some examples, like from a from a distribution perspective, hosting my podcast or being on your podcast is going to have more listeners than if I go speak on stage, if I go speak on stage now that that has its own benefits of authority and and different you know, belly to belly relationships from a trust perspective, but from a distribution perspective, I would be better off doing more podcasts than I would speaking on stage, sure. So there's an advantage there, right? And then there's also advantages through pricing arbitrage, and it's if, if I hire labor and talent in in the Midwest, and I pay them above average fees and salaries, and I pay my employees well, but compare that to New York or California. And I think some people, you know, these are things that they don't talk about, but when you start to look at leverage closely, it's everywhere. Capital, economies of scale, if I you know, there's leverage based upon my my buying power in certain areas, and that's what I look for. It's an interesting way to make decisions. Is based upon that leverage component. Michael Hingson  31:20 Do you think that that works in other kinds of arenas, other than just what you do? Chris Dreyer  31:27 Oh, I won 1,000% yes, yeah. It works in you could see it. You know, the closest would be, closest arena would be sports. There's so many, whether it's the salary caps or the talent of one person's labor based, you know, what they can do from a utilization or capacity versus another one's people talk about it on the business side of like, you know, You have one software programmer is worth, potentially 1,000x another one just because of that individual's capabilities. So it's literally everywhere, and it's also dissecting different scenarios into fractional leverage. So I'll take give you a different way of thinking about this. Is like, you take a an SEO specialist, a top tier SEO specialist might be 100 200 grand, right, technician, right? But you you break down their capabilities into the smaller parts. You know someone that just writes, someone that just does the title tags and the website, and someone that just does the links and that, like you can assemble, that individuals that that superstars talent through the FRAC breaking it down from a fractional perspective. It's just a big game of puzzles and how you get there and you look at like what your competitors are doing and how you can, I wouldn't say, exploit in a negative way, but, but what I mean is how you can take advantage in a positive way to to help your business succeed, right? Michael Hingson  33:15 Well, do you so if, if you're playing a game like football, of course, everybody, every team, wants to crush the other team, and it's all about winning and beating the heck out of the other guy. Is that really the way you view it, in terms of the game, as you play it, and do you enjoy being able to just crush the competition? Or is it a different mindset than that? Chris Dreyer  33:42 That's a really good question, because I am an abundance mindset. I don't think everything is a zero sum game. It's, I'll tell you something super nerdy. I was talking to my chief of staff the other day that he's we're big gamers, big nerds. And he, we were talking about Warhammer 40k and the dwarves in that game have a book of grudges. So anybody that that goes against the dwarves, they they're listed in the book of grudges, right? Yeah. And it's like all the dwarves are trying to, you know, right? This wrong. And I kind of look like that. I'm like, treat people respect like, you know, abundance zero, you know, like, abundance mentality. Do the referral thing until it's like, okay, you've done X, Y and Z, and I could give you examples of x, y, z, and it's like, okay, well, you're not my friend. You're not my ally, so now you are a true competitor by all since you know, by all definitions, right? That's how I've treated it. Michael Hingson  34:48 And so it isn't the joy of just beating everybody in sight. No, which is different, which is cool, because certainly. I would, I would also bet, though, that you have people who are competitors, but they're not unfriendly, so you can absolutely, yeah, you can develop Chris Dreyer  35:10 working relationships. Rattle off, and we have great conversations. We're friends, and people are surprised when they see us, and we're friendly, and it's like, no, it's like, we have families, we have life. We want to do good work. We want to and it's so you can absolutely have that too. Yeah. Michael Hingson  35:27 Why did you decide to specifically choose personal injury Chris Dreyer  35:33 for me? And it's this is turning into the math conversation. But really, I looked at our revenue, and it was like over 70% of our revenue. Was from less than 50% of our clientele. And it was a clear directional signal to pursue this area. And that's it was the math like, these are our best clients. They pay the most, they stay the longest we could do the best work. Also the PI space is the Super Bowl. Is the major leagues. In the legal arena, it's, it's very difficult to rank. There's a lot of competition versus, you know, I get a family law attorney. I don't care what market you're in, Los Angeles, it's like a sneeze to get them the number one or two? Yeah, it's and I like that. I like the competition. I like having to work at it and be creative and think about different things to try to obtain that top position. Michael Hingson  36:33 Yeah, well, so I would, I would presume that John Morgan's happy with you. Chris Dreyer  36:40 I, you know, I had Dan Morgan as a keynote for my 2024 conference, his son. And I haven't personally talked to John. I think he's well, he says he's retired, but he's not really retired, yeah, right. The I couldn't work with Morgan and Morgan, I can have a great relationship with them, but I can't work with them because they're in every market, and my I would, they would be my only client, so that's why, but certainly have a great relationship. I've got a text relationship with Dan, but yeah, they, I think they do everything in house. Michael Hingson  37:20 Anyways, you don't want to be the consularity for Morgan and Morgan, in other words, Chris Dreyer  37:25 your only client, right, right? That would put a lot of risk on the old client concentration problem, Michael Hingson  37:33 and it would, but still. So what does it mean for a law firm to dominate Google's organic search. And I guess the other question is, why is that the legal battleground that personal injury lawyers can't really ignore? Chris Dreyer  37:53 There's, there's so much here. Okay, where do I go? That's a lot of take. You take any channel, broadcast television has been the main vehicle for channel for distribution. It's the lowest CPMs cost per 1000. The distribution is very wide, because an individual doesn't know typically, when they're going to be in an accident, right? So you got to have a lot of reach and touch a lot of individuals. There's also radio and billboards. But typically, even if they watch you on television or hear you on the radio or what have you, they still convert. They go to Google to make that conversion that go to the website. Typically, it's not always and and things are changing due to these llms and the native experiences on platform. But even today, it's still the final destination before they contact a firm. So it's really important that you show up at the top of Google to capture all of those opportunities that you've advertised for in other mediums. Michael Hingson  39:09 How do you do that? Chris Dreyer  39:12 Well, so you know, I'll say, I'll try to simplify for the audience. Let's just keep it really, think of like a Venn diagram of, you know, the three circles overlaying and you've got the middle. You have to do all three. The first one is you have to have excellent content. You have to have, you know, if you're an auto accident attorney, you have to have content about auto accidents. You have to have, you know, you have to have content that targets phrases and words that consumers will search for, right? It starts with the content. It has to be thematically and topically relevant. Has to be excellent content. The second component would be related to. Views. You got to get Google reviews to show up on in the LSA, the local services ads location, you have to get reviews to show up in Google Map Pack. You need reviews now on Yelp to show up on and be discovered on these different llms, particularly a chat GPT. And just due to how okay for the SEO nerds listening, let me explain, because typically when you get reviews on Yelp and when you get reviews or recommendations on Facebook, they aggregate that information to other sites, which is then the listicles that form the basis of discovery for these llms. So you got to have a review background. So content reviews and then links. Google, the way that they differentiated, again, way against lo AOL was they use links as a categorization method. So if you're trying to win an election, you want to get as many votes as possible. If you're trying to win the first page of Google, you want to get as many high quality links as possible. High quality being authoritative, relevant, trustworthy, you know, sites that get a lot of traffic, so you need great content, lot of reviews and links. That is the very 8020, high end summer summary of of how to rank in Google search and on the llms, yeah. Michael Hingson  41:24 Well, and how does LinkedIn fit into what you do? Chris Dreyer  41:29 LinkedIn is a bit different. I you know LinkedIn more B to B platform. I think if you're a business attorney or a B to B firm, it's an excellent channel. I use it from a distribution perspective. I get a lot of reach. I get a lot of followers on there. A lot of attorneys congregate on there. And it's a great, you know, channel for recruiting talent, and it's cited frequently if you have some type of reputation perspective that you want to control around your name. LinkedIn typically ranks in one of the top three positions for your name if you have your profile set up properly. So yeah, it's, it's, it's got great distribution from a leverage perspective, and, you know, has other applications as well. Michael Hingson  42:15 If you were starting a law firm today, or you were advising someone who's starting a law firm, how would you deal with and start their marketing efforts? How would you organize marketing for them? Chris Dreyer  42:28 Yeah, in the beginning I would, I would do almost all performance marketing. I would not do. I would do very little with brands, because you need to get on your your cash acceleration cycle is very poor. From a PI perspective. I'm always thinking from an injury law firm perspective, because, you know, if you get an auto accident case by the time they get treatment and go through the whole process, you know, it could be 12 to 18 months before you get paid. So you know, I would think about performance marketing, Facebook ads, Google ads, LSA, SEO, a lot of the ads platforms that are, you know, very performance driven. That would be the majority of my investment. Facebook ads. So in a vacuum, you know, different markets are, there's different channels that are more effective. But in a vacuum, I would say today, right now, Facebook ads would be the best platform, the best channel for that, Michael Hingson  43:29 because so many, because it has such a high volume of viewers, or what Chris Dreyer  43:34 they're well, it's just the cost per lead. The amount that you pay on that platform to reach your target prospect is going to be cheaper than say, you go to Google ads and you're paying $600 a click for a phrase, or, you know, it's just now, there's, again, this is in a vacuum. There's very effective Google Ad strategies you can get, you know, creative with performance, Max campaigns and and different strategies. But I would say just in general, Facebook ads out of the gate would be one that I would start with, and I would start the SEO early, just because it takes time to develop. Michael Hingson  44:14 Yeah, well, that makes sense, and it does take a long time, and I think a lot of people don't necessarily understand how all of that works, but it's still something that they should, should deal with Chris Dreyer  44:28 1,000% and, you know, it's, it's a game of, it's a long game, but it, you know, even SEO can be on a shorter time horizon, if, if You're, like, if you target Car Accident Lawyer in that phrase and that segment, then sure, yeah, 12 to 18 months is, you know, you know, even two years before you start to get some visibility. But you target dog bites, you target, you know, some other case types that aren't as competitive like you can get traction sooner. Michael Hingson  45:00 Hmm, well, and that kind of brings up the question you You talk a lot about, and you wrote a book about niche. Why is it that going into like a smaller niche can yield sort of a greater opportunity, or by narrowing focus, you're creating bigger opportunities? Why is that? So? Chris Dreyer  45:22 What comes top of mind? Some of the biggest, the most important reason is it all centers around this word focus. When you focus in a single area, you become better. Well, because you were better, you can you can at your you can charge more because you're worth it. The other thing is, is when you focus on a single area, you you can create, create repeatable processes, and everything is not bespoke when it comes in. So you can set up your internal productization of a certain area. You it makes training easier by immersion. So there's a lot of benefits, even even the perception aspect of it, right? So when you think of like, who's better, a generalist versus a brain surgeon, you think a brain surgeon is a specialist. And you think, Well, who do you think, just offhand, whose fees would be higher? Well, you think the brain surgeon would would charge higher fees. And so from a perception perspective, and when you're thinking about trust, the that's the other one, right? You would think from a trust perspective, they would be more qualified because they're in this certain area. So, and when we're trying to convert someone in sales, it's always a conversation based upon trust. So those are some of the main advantages, the one heavy, heavy disadvantage. Disadvantage is Tam, total addressable market. It's you focus on personal injury. You're at 50, 60,000 firms. You focus on all law firms. United States, you're at 400,000 law firms. So there's trade offs for you know, there's pros and cons on both sides well Michael Hingson  47:03 and and that makes sense, but there is a lot of merit to the to the whole concept of specializing, and you've proven it with what you do, and you continue to be pretty successful about it. And then that makes a lot of sense, but you also do something else that I think is interesting. You've written a book, niching up, you've got a podcast, you have other things that you do, and, of course, just the company itself, but you put all of that together, and all of that not only has to help your brand, but it makes you more visible in the marketplace overall. Don't you think? Chris Dreyer  47:42 Yeah, it certainly does, and it is our flywheel, right? It's somebody that's on my podcast could be a potential quote in my book, and I have a personal injury lawyer marketing book, right? And there's quotes from the pod. I have now a quarterly magazine that goes out. We could cherry pick a couple episodes, you know, to include in the magazine. We have retreats that are quarterly. They're, they're in person that, because we have a community, they're easier to to fill. We have a yearly event for personal injury law firms called, you know, Pim con. So it's all this, this flywheel that kind of compounds over time due to the community aspect, Michael Hingson  48:25 but people obviously react well to it, because you continue to be successful. Chris Dreyer  48:32 Yeah, and I think the biggest thing for me is I am I am not the the expert. I am bringing on the experts in their field, the people that are eating their own dog food, so to speak, right? They're practicing what they preach. It is, I can orchestrate a great conversation because I know the space and can ask very specific questions based upon my knowledge. But I'm bringing on, you know, Dan Morgan's on the pod. I've had, let's see Morris Bart. You know, I've had frank Azar in Colorado. I've had the biggest of the big pi attorneys on sharing what works for them, which, which is very valuable, because it's not, you know, some, you know, a consultant or me or whoever, speaking about like, Oh, this is how you can grow a law firm. It's no this is the owner of a law firm explaining how he or she is growing their law firm right, Michael Hingson  49:31 and providing that advice for other people, which also helps you gain trust, which is pretty cool. What's the best way for an attorney who wants to stand out to truly build authority in the market? Chris Dreyer  49:50 Well, if you're if you're b Look, okay, so there's a couple types of firms. If you're a trial attorney and you want to get peer referrals, I would say. See, I would say start a podcast would be one of the best ways, you know, interview your peer, interview other attorneys around the country, talk shop, you know, speak at C les. You know, do the those types of aspects it, you know, a podcast. I'm not saying it's not good for B to C, but it's, it has to be a different type of podcast. So I think, I think B to B, if you're a litigation attorney, a podcast would be great if it's B to C. That's, that's tricky. I think I think probably social media in some capacity, but really it's just sharing your knowledge on a platform and being consistent. Michael Hingson  50:51 Yeah, consistency counts for a lot, and it is something you can you can show is being relevant in almost any kind of business. I mean, look at McDonald's. One thing you can generally tell about McDonald's is that their quarter pounder is going to taste the same everywhere, and it's going to be the same and, and, and companies and people can learn a lot by seeing a company that truly develops that level of trust, 51:24 yeah, couldn't agree more. Michael Hingson  51:26 And that's pretty important to do, to be able to get someone who is going to earn that trust by vigorously working to earn that trust. And so there's something to be said for that, needless to say, so you've built a very large company. What would you say are some of the pivotal moments that sort of helped shape your trajectory? I know you've talked about some things, but what, what kind of really, are the things that stand out that really helped you create all of that? Chris Dreyer  52:00 I think in the beginning, I did a lot of free work, and had to prove my work, prove my abilities. I think so many people just want to charge a lot out of the gate. And I think there's when you do things for people, they're more willing to reciprocate. And it from an application perspective, it makes you better. So I did a lot of free work early, a ton of free work. I took a lot of jobs or contracts that maybe not, maybe for certain, that I wouldn't take today, that were just not perfect, but like they were my opportunities that I didn't, you know, let them pass by. I think hiring the right people, having super high standards is incredibly important, people that share your values. In the beginning, I used to, every time I heard a speech or taught speech speaker talk about culture values, I used to kind of roll my eyes and say I just didn't get to get to work, right? But now I know it's more important than ever that they share my values, right? Because they're important to me, and that's how you move forward. And I think the other one, if I had to say, the bigger I get, the more important good data, is to make decisions like, if I just don't have good data, it's very difficult. I'm just guessing and and the better the data, the better decisions well. Michael Hingson  53:32 So the the other thing that comes to mind when you talked about doing a lot of free work and jobs that you wouldn't necessarily take today, I don't know how much it really entered into your mindset, but think of all the knowledge you gathered by doing that that you might not have ever gotten. Yeah. Chris Dreyer  53:49 I mean, that's true, and a lot of other people wouldn't have done those jobs, so that's kind of some unique perspectives. Michael Hingson  53:56 Yeah, I when I hired sales people, one of the first things I always told them was, you're coming into this be a student for at least the first year. Don't hesitate to ask questions of your customers, because they're not if you gain their trust at all. They're not in it to see you fail. They want you to succeed, but they want to be able to trust you. And so there's a lot to be said for being a student, asking questions and learning from that. I agree. I agree, which makes a lot of sense. What's the biggest misconception that lawyers typically have about marketing? Chris Dreyer  54:33 They underestimate how many dollars and what it takes for someone to actually be memorable or build a brand. I talked to, I heard Alex hermosi talking recently about, you know, no one really knew who Jennifer Lawrence was before the mockingbird movie, and they spent $50 million on advertising for that movie. And then, oh, suddenly, everyone knows who she is. But it took $50 million To do so. I think a lot of times people think they oversaturate a channel when they haven't even scratched the possibilities or the capabilities of a particular channel. Michael Hingson  55:10 How do you help lawyers break through that misconception? I agree with what you're saying. I hear it a lot, in so many ways, but how do you break through that and get them to understand the value. Chris Dreyer  55:22 It's a dance, yeah, you know, I try to get them to look at the blended cost to acquire a case, as opposed to, you know, the CAC to LTV ratio, versus trying to pinpoint each individual channel and but it is try to try to solve with data and proof over, you know, guesses, but or promises, but it is always a song and dance. Michael Hingson  55:52 The data and proof is out there. If people can learn to look for it, it's, it's, the reality is, mostly it's not a guess, but you have to know where to look or learn how to find the data to be able to get the answers that you need to demonstrate that marketing is just as valuable as anything else. I mean, there's so many strong lessons about marketing. We talked about Morgan and Morgan, but think about it, he's out there doing TV commercials all the time, and I'm sure that that's helping his company. He and Ultima continuing to to grow, and now they got the boys all in it. And the reality is they've demonstrated that they understand something about what marketing is all about. I remember back a long time ago when it was taboo for lawyers to even advertise. And then a couple of companies out here started to do it. And finally, people realized there's a lot of value in marketing. Chris Dreyer  56:50 Absolutely. And Michael, I should have said this in advance. I've got a I got a hard stop, I got a I got a hat, I got a client call here in two minutes. Michael Hingson  56:59 Well, then let me just ask, is there anything else that you want to add? Or how can people reach out to you if they'd like to do that? Chris Dreyer  57:06 Well, first of all, I really enjoyed our conversation, so thank you for having me. Yeah, you know, for anybody that has a question or wants to connect with me, the best way to get in touch with me is by email. I'm an inbox zero guy. It's Chris, C, H, R, i s@rankings.io I'm most active on LinkedIn. You'll just do a search for Chris Dreyer, and you'll find me cool. Michael Hingson  57:29 Well, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for tuning in today, wherever you are, I'd love to hear from you. Love your thoughts on the podcast. Give us an email at Michael h i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, also, you can listen to any of our podcasts. They're all available. And you can find us at Michael hingson.com/podcast and you can see and hear all the episodes that you want from there. Please give us a five star review and great rating wherever you're listening and watching us, we value it a lot. And if you know anyone who you think might be able to be a good guest, love to hear from you. Chris, you as well. If you know anybody else who you think ought to be a guest, I'd love to definitely get your help to bring them on, because we're looking for all the people who want to come on and show that we're all more unstoppable than we think. But again, I want to just thank you for being here today. Chris Dreyer  58:20 Thank you, Michael. I really enjoyed it. Michael Hingson  58:26 Thank you for being here with me on unstoppable mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about if you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others. I have a free gift for you. Head over to Michael hingson.com and download my free ebook, blinded by fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening, keep learning, keep questioning and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset you.

Recorded live at SAND's Wisdom of the Ancestors event for the launch of the film series The Eternal Song, four powerful voices converge to address colonization, extractivism, and ecological injustice — and what it takes to move toward healing. Moderated by Rae Abileah, social change strategist, Jewish faith leader, and co-creator of the global Climate Ribbon art ritual. Abby Reyes, author of Truth Demands and Director of Community Resilience at UC Irvine, shares her harrowing personal story of the 1999 murders of her partner and colleagues near U'wa territory in Colombia, and a landmark recent Inter-American Court victory for Indigenous collective rights. Osprey Orielle Lake, founder of WECAN International and author of The Story Is in Our Bones, brings a worldview-shifting lens to the climate crisis as a justice and relational emergency. And Casey Camp-Horinek, elder, actress, and Hereditary Drumkeeper of the Ponca Nation, grounds the conversation in Indigenous sovereignty and the Rights of Nature. Together they call for community-rooted action, mutual aid, and what they name "post-traumatic growth." Topics: 00:00 Host Welcome and Land Acknowledgment 03:12 Session Theme and Intentions 04:48 Meet the Panelists 08:10 Why We Are Here 18:59 Indigenous Rights and Knowledge 25:14 Casey on Nature and Purification 34:29 Abby Story and Legal Victory 43:56 Meaningful Action and Getting Started 50:32 Community Practice and Post Traumatic Growth 57:58 Closing Reflections and Thanks Resources Rae Abileah CreateWell — Website Beautiful Trouble Bio Abby Reyes Website Truth Demands — Penguin Random House UC Irvine Community Resilience Osprey Orielle Lake WECAN International The Story Is in Our Bones — New Society Publishers Casey Camp-Horinek Movement Rights Bio SAND Feature Connect with more talks from The Wisdom of the Ancestors in the SAND film Series The Eternal Song Support the mission of SAND and the production of this podcast by becoming a SAND Member

For Women's History Month, we're highlighting someone whose story represents real strength. Our guest today is Jolie Robinson, a Division I track and field athlete at UC Irvine. Jolie is also a two-time Big West champion, a record-holding long jumper, a dedicated student, and a Mom. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hi, friends, and welcome back to our series, "On Becoming: The Art and Craft of Personal Storytelling." In this series, we take a close look at personal essays written by real students, talking about why we love them, what makes them work, and how they came to be.  In this episode, we explore an essence objects essay, which is to say an essay that was written about objects in the author's room, each one of which reveals a different aspect of their life. I'm joined by Ali McKeon, an essay coach and program advisor here at College Essay Guy. Ali worked with the student who wrote this essay, so she gives us a behind-the-scenes look at the process of working with this student, how the topic came to be, plus the questions she asked along the way. For those of you who love seeing how things get made, whether it's a great meal, a film scene, or a piece of writing, this episode offers a little window into that process. Ali McKeon is a writing coach and veteran college admissions essay specialist with a BA in English from Stanford University and MFA from UC Irvine. She is passionate about building her students' confidence in the writing process and developing them into strong self-advocates for their individual learning needs. One of the highlights of her career has been mentoring bright students with learning differences. In addition to teaching, she is an arts entrepreneur, former professional ballet dancer, and mom to a busy toddler. We hope you enjoy.    Play-by-Play: 1:50 – Who is the student behind the essay, and what stood out about working with her? 4:29 – Ali reads the essay, which we're calling "Tiny Windows into My Being"  9:00 – What ideas inspired the student's writing?  10:35 – What makes an "objects in my room" essay stand out? 12:36 – What is an "essence objects" essay, and how does it connect to the montage essay structure? 13:23 – How did the student decide which objects to include in the opening paragraph? 18:02 – How can students weave accomplishments into an essay without sounding like they're bragging? 20:22 – Why does pairing achievements with curiosity strengthen this paragraph? 22:18 – In what ways does the essay show the student is more than just a STEM student? 26:24 – How does the author reflect on her cultural identities? 30:42 – What led the student to include the migraine story in the essay? 36:50 – What makes this essay's ending so effective? 41:26 – What does Ali enjoy most about working with students on essays? 45:21 – Closing thoughts   Resources: "Tiny Windows into My Being" Essay College Essay Guy's Personal Statement Resources College Essay Guy's College Application Hub

Today on AirTalk: Oscars recap (0:30) Chalamet's comments on ballet and opera (12:07) SoCal History: L.A .'s oil boom (23:33) Winter heatwave (32:12) UC Irvine professor on her immigration research (40:31) March madness (54:34) Visit www.preppi.com/LAist to receive a FREE Preppi Emergency Kit (with any purchase over $100) and be prepared for the next wildfire, earthquake or emergency

The Context of White Supremacy hosts the Counter-Racist Weekly Review 03/14/26. This broadcast examines current events from across the globe to learn what's happening in all areas of people activity. We cultivate Counter-Racist Media Literacy by scrutinizing journalists' word choices and using logic to deconstruct what is reported as "news." We'll use these sessions to hone our use of terms as tools to reveal truth, neutralize Racists/White people. #ANTIBLACKNESS The conflict in Iran has lasted just over two weeks. Reports indicate a school was bombed where Al Jazeera reports 170 people were killed - a number of them children. We'll also discuss a White Terrorist attack at California's UC Irvine, where a black teen student was reportedly attacked by a gang of e-bike-riding Race Soldiers. The black teen was allegedly spat on and assaulted. A black female was the Victim of a White Terrorist attack at an Illinois transit stop. She reported being stunned that none of the males who witnessed the assault came to her rescue. The C.O.W.S. has discussed this situation before in great deal with Neely Fuller Jr. He recommended that black females and black males not expect anyone to intervene on their behalf if any sort of violence occurs. And, Fuller specifically recommended that non-white people's only intervention be to escort the female to safety. He detailed the infinite variables and dangers of Victims of Racism joining a random incident of violence that you did not initiate. In a related matter, an alleged shooter at Virginia's Old Dominion University was reportedly killed by onlookers after 3 people were shot. There was one casualty in addition to the black male gunman - who's reportedly affiliated with "ISIS." #EndStageWhiteSupremacy INVEST in The COWS – http://paypal.me/TheCOWS Cash App: https://cash.app/$TheCOWS CALL IN NUMBER: 720.716.7300 CODE 564943#

In this episode, R explores a reality that sets today's children apart from every previous generation: they have never known a world without smartphones and screens. Unlike the arrival of radio, television, or even the early internet, there is no collective memory of "before" for kids born after 2012. The numbers are striking. Children aged 8 to 18 now average seven and a half hours of daily screen time. Attention spans on digital devices have plummeted from two and a half minutes in 2004 to just 47 seconds today, according to research from UC Irvine. Nearly half of preschoolers already own a tablet. R examines why the common rebuttal of "people said the same thing about TV" falls short. Unlike television, smartphones are interactive, algorithmic, personalized, and socially mandatory. More than a dozen countries have now moved to ban or restrict phone use in schools, from France and Sweden to Brazil and South Korea. The episode closes with a reflection on what it means to be the last generation with a memory of life before screens, and why that perspective is something worth preserving and passing on. Key Data Points: Children ages 8-18 average 7.5 hours of daily screen time 87% of children exceed recommended screen time guidelines Attention spans on devices dropped from 2.5 minutes (2004) to 47 seconds (today) Nearly half of preschoolers own a tablet; by age 8, 1 in 4 have a phone 12+ countries have passed or are passing school smartphone bans (France, Sweden, Brazil, South Korea, Finland, Chile, Belgium, and more) Subscribe to The Healthier Tech Podcast for more episodes on living well alongside technology. This episode is brought to you by Shield Your Body—a global leader in EMF protection and digital wellness. Because real wellness means protecting your body, not just optimizing it. If you found this episode eye-opening, leave a review, share it with someone tech-curious, and don't forget to subscribe to Shield Your Body on YouTube for more insights on living healthier with technology.

Shotgun Spratling and Kasey Kazliner return on the Dedeaux Download Podcast to break down another unblemished weekend for USC baseball as they improve to 15-0 on the season after opening the Big Ten season with a sweep of Illinois! They also talk with junior left-handed pitcher Sax Matson about the expansion of his role and the team's hot start to the season. Matson discusses the development of his arsenal during his time at USC, including the addition of a cutter this season to a fastball that's climbed five miles per hour since his freshman year and a breaking ball that has devastated hitters this year. He also chats about Sean Allen's coaching and the mentality he takes to the mound where he hopes to visit at least 40 times this season to tie the program appearances record. Matson again played a critical part in the Trojans' pitching efforts that were again electric as Mason Edwards and Grant Govel helped USC throw back-to-back 4-0 shutouts with the staff allowing only three runs over the weekend. USC fell behind early Sunday, but rallied back to take a 5-3 win to bookend the week with two-run victories after also rallying to defeat UC Irvine, 6-4, during a midweek matchup. Shotgun and Kasey break down all the action and look forward to the upcoming double midweek matchups and the Trojans' first road trip out of Southern California this weekend when they travel to Nortwestern. Please review, rate and subscribe to the Peristyle Podcast on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠! Make sure you check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠USCFootball.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ for complete coverage of USC Trojans football, basketball, baseball and recruiting.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Shotgun Spratling and Kasey Kazliner return on the Dedeaux Download Podcast to break down another unblemished weekend for USC baseball as they improve to 11-0 on the season after recording their first four-game series sweep since 1978! They also talk with junior second baseman and leadoff hitter Abbrie Covarrubias about his and the team's hot start to the season. The Trojans' starting pitching was again electric as Mason Edwards, Grant Govel and Andrew Johnson all three were spectacular and Chase Herrell joined the mix with five scoreless innings on Thursday. The Trojans nearly had their second no-hitter of the season as Edwards and Sax Matson combined to throw TEN hitless innings Friday, but the game remained scoreless until the top of the 11th inning when USC broke the game open with six runs. That left the only question being whether the Trojans could get the final three outs before Cal Poly could get its first hit. They fell one pitch shy. Freshman Diego Velazquez got the first out but a grounder up the middle bounced off second base and out of the grasp of a sliding Covarrubias for an infield single. On the next pitch, Velazquez got a ground ball for a 5-4-3 double play to end the game. After being bottled up Friday, USC's bats responded in a big way, pounding out 21 hits and scoring 16 runs -- both season highs -- while Govel again was outstanding on the mound despite giving up his first earned run of the season on a solo homer late in his seven-inning start. The Sunday matchup appeared to be going similarly to the dominant performances USC had shown the rest of the weekend until the ninth inning. After Johnson had been lights out, allowing one run on four hits in 6.2 innings, the Trojans held a 6-1 lead going into the ninth inning. That's when the Mustangs finally showed some life, scoring five runs with the help of a two-out error to tie the game and send it into extra innings for the second time in the series. The 10th inning remained scoreless, but USC burst through with a pair of runs in the 11th and freshman Gavin Lauridsen closed it out for the 8-6 win to complete the sweetp. Shotgun and Kasey break down all the action and look forward to the upcoming matchups against UC Irvine and the start of Big Ten play against Illinois. Please review, rate and subscribe to the Peristyle Podcast on ⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠! Make sure you check out ⁠⁠⁠USCFootball.com⁠⁠⁠ for complete coverage of USC Trojans football, basketball, baseball and recruiting.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Southeastern 16 crew predicts outcomes for each of the 16 SEC weekend series. Texas and Ole Miss each face Coastal Carolina, Baylor and Ohio State at the Bruce Bolt Classic in Houston, Texas. Alabama faces Iowa, Oregon State and Houston in the Frisco (Texas) College Baseball Classic. Mississippi State, Tennessee and Texas A&M take on Arizona State, Virginia Tech and UCLA in the Amergy Bank College Baseball Series in Arlington, Texas. Vanderbilt faces UC Irvine, Arizona and Oregon in the Las Vegas Classic. Florida travels to Miami for a huge rivalry series. South Carolina plays a home, away and neutral-site game with Clemson. Meanwhile, the rest of the league plays at home including Arkansas (hosting UT Arlington), Auburn (Nebraska), Georgia (Oakland) and Kentucky (St. John's), Missouri (North Dakota State), LSU (hosting Northeastern and Dartmouth) and Oklahoma (Gonzaga). Southeastern 16 Merch: https://se16.printify.me/ &COLLAR Stretchy. Wrinkle-proof. Built to look sharp. Welcome to Workleisure. Use promo code SEC16 for 16% off! https://andcollar.com/ HOMEFIELD https://www.homefieldapparel.com/ ICON WALLETS Use promo code SEC16 for 20% off! https://icon-wallets.com/ ROKFORM Use promo code SEC25 for 25% off! The world's strongest magnetic phone case! https://www.rokform.com/ JOIN OUR MEMBERSHIP Join the "It Just Means More" tier for bonus videos and live streams! Join Link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv1w_TRbiB0yHCEb7r2IrBg/join FOLLOW US ON SOCIAL MEDIA Twitter: https://twitter.com/16Southeastern ADVERTISE WITH SOUTHEASTERN 16 Reach out to se16.caroline@gmail.com to find out how your product or service can be seen by over 200,000 unique viewers each month! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Cognitive Scientist, Dr. Donald Hoffman returns to the mind meld! Are we, as Plato argued thousands of years ago, mistaking shadows on a cave wall for reality?

In this episode of Talk Nerdy, Cara is joined by UC Irvine Law Professor, and acclaimed author, Mehrsa Baradaran. They talk about her latest book, The Racial Wealth Gap: A Brief History. Follow Mehrsa: @mehrsab