Podcast appearances and mentions of zena hitz

What a lot of fun I had talking to Zena Hitz about Gulliver's Travels. As well as discussing Swift, slavery, genocide, rationality, Christianity, and science, Zena told me that good philosophy is like a box of cake mix and that a liberal education requires you to be freed of false expertise. I also took Zena on a detour to discuss Iris Murdoch, the Catherine Project, and modern philosophy. TRANSCRIPTHENRY OLIVER: Today I am talking to Zena Hitz. Zena is a tutor at St. John's College. She is a philosopher, the author of Lost in Thought. She runs the Catherine Project. She's famous on Twitter. We don't know how she does it all. Zena, welcome.ZENA HITZ: Thank you, Henry. It's great to be here.OLIVER: And we're talking about Gulliver's Travels because it is 300 years since it was published, and it's a book that you love.HITZ: A book that I've loved for a long time.First Encounter with Gulliver's TravelsOLIVER: So tell me, when did you first read it?HITZ: Well, it was an important moment for me. I was in high school, and I was admitted to a scholarship summer program which offered college courses at different campuses. There were some normal-looking college courses at normal-looking colleges. And then there was this course at St. John's called Science as Literature, Literature as Science. [laughs] It had this description that was just unbelievable. And I thought to myself, “This is the one, obviously the one to go to.”So I went, and we read books that no one in their right mind would assign to high school students now, and maybe not then. The fragments of Parmenides, Plato's Timaeus, selections from Aristotle's Physics, Gulliver's Travels. After reading a number of—preface to Ptolemy's Almagest, geocentric astronomy. And we read Gulliver's Travels after reading selections from Hooke's Micrographia, so the inventor of the microscope, and Galileo's Starry Messenger, which is one of the great first uses of the telescope to discover the nature of the moon and the satellites of Jupiter.So then we read Gulliver's Travels. We also read Emma and Flannery O'Connor and various other things. And one of the faculty who was running it said at one point, “Well, we thought we'd throw a bunch of things together and see what you could do, what you could make of it. We didn't actually have an idea of how these all fit together,” which I think was probably true.At any rate, I think I came to Gulliver's Travels thinking about these scientists who were looking at very large things and very small things, and thinking in general about the follies of human perception, whether that was shown in literature or philosophy or what have you, the ways in which human perception and knowledge don't work very well. And I think Swift is still one of the best people to—Gulliver's Travels is still one of the best books about that because it's in the mode of a travel diary, an eyewitness account.Gulliver is trained as a surgeon, by his own account. He at one point says he was a bit of a projector in his younger days, someone who undertook scientific projects. And he's a terrible observer, the worst imaginable observer, and Swift so brilliantly lets us see through his eyes, lets us see all the things he doesn't see. And I think it's not just about seeing and knowing. It has a very profound, I think, moral and political set of commitments. So it's a very humane book. It's social criticism, but from a point of view of a very deep humanity. So I've always loved the book for these reasons since then.I came back to it more recently because it is part of the curriculum at St. John's. So when I came back to teach there, I began to reread it. The other experience I had was that I wrote a long essay on it when I was an undergraduate. So those are my—I'm not any kind of expert. My knowledge of the historical context of the book is limited. It's not zero, but it's limited. But I have always loved it as an account of human understanding and its failures and the way that might impact how we live and how happy we can be.The Houyhnhnm ProblemOLIVER: Have you changed how you think about it as you've taught it?HITZ: I have not really changed the way I think about it. It gets more—like all of these books, the more you read them, the more comes out of them, the more details come up. Hilarious. The more jokes you get, the more . . .I think the one more recent insight I had was, I hadn't understood the full horror of the Houyhnhnms in the last book until relatively recently. I think that took me some time to really take on. It's one of the cases where Gulliver's misperceptions are a bit harder to see, and I think many readers just assume that Swift is endorsing the praise of the Houyhnhnms in some sense or other.OLIVER: There are some very serious critics in the past who have called them Swift's ideal beings. Which at this point in history seems unthinkable, but it has been a belief among serious readers.HITZ: Yes, yes. And also common among students. Yes, it's absolutely one of the wrongest opinions you could have about anything, I think.OLIVER: Why does Swift allow us to make that mistake? Are we bad readers out of the context, or has he made too good a job of his diversions and concealments and ironies?HITZ: That's a great question, and I'll just take a stab at it. I think that he has hit on a mode of misperception which is very deep to us, and it's something that we're much more guilty of. We could imagine that if we were in a place where everyone was small or everyone was large, we might make mistakes like Gulliver makes. But we all live, I think, in communities that are a bit like the Houyhnhnms. And so we are all very subject to these kinds of deceptions, and I think that's how he gets us.That's not to really excuse the bad readings because, you know, Gulliver does leave the land of the Houyhnhnms with a boat made out of human skin, which should—I think that moment should make you realize, if you haven't yet, that something is very seriously wrong with Gulliver. Gulliver has been kind of destroyed as a person by his travels, and especially by this last trip. But if you pass over that little detail, maybe you think, “Oh, wow, he found some very simple beings.”OLIVER: Well, there's also the great council where they debate the genocide of the Yahoos.HITZ: [laughs] Yes.OLIVER: And it directly contradicts several things Gulliver has come to believe about the Houyhnhnms, about the Yahoos, and about himself. And he's completely unaware of these contradictions and so in awe of the Houyhnhnms that he doesn't quite understand, I think, that he's accounting a genocide.HITZ: That's right. That's right.OLIVER: Even though he uses a phrase from Genesis that's very unmistakable. It's a sort of remarkable moment of—particularly to us, having had the 20th century. I think that's why Swift came back into favor in a way, because people used to say, Swift's unbearable view of human nature . . .This is a great bit in Boswell's Life of Johnson where, when they're traveling through Scotland, they're with a lady, and she says to Johnson, “Is any man naturally good?” And Johnson says, “No, no more than a wolf.” And Boswell says, “Well, sir, what about ladies?” And Johnson says, “God, no, absolutely not.” And this woman says, “Oh my God, this is worse than Swift,” utterly horrific view of human nature.But of course, we can actually say, did he go far enough? [laughter] I mean, Swift clearly understands something very real and deep. The council of genocide is horrifyingly familiar to us. And I think that's much to Swift's credit that he can see that, and to show that Gulliver would blind himself to it. And people still blind themselves to it, right?HITZ: That's right. And I wonder—you would know more about this than me because it is a bit of a historical question, but my understanding is that quite a lot of the savagery, the worst parts of rule over men that we see in Gulliver's Travels are pictures of Ireland in the 17th, 18th centuries. And I wonder if that took some time to reveal itself to the British, and in some ways it's still not really as known as it might be. We think of the colonial project as being something that was directed at India and Africa—OLIVER: Faraway countries.HITZ: —faraway countries where people looked really different. And we're not as familiar with the kinds of things that were done to the cuddly Irish with their nice music, and who we don't think of as being people that you would savagely oppress like that. So I think—OLIVER: So, I think partly the English are not interested in their own history in the way that they are expected to be. And partly the English interest in Irish history has become very focused on the more recent events. And it's very hard to get back past that. And it all becomes very complicated, and it's a sort of different country. So there's some of that, but I think generally we don't want to know what we did, yes.HITZ: Well, and I think in anglophone countries in general, there's going to be a history of something like that. To attribute it to the British is not to say that—I mean, Americans have chattel slavery and the genocide of the natives, and the Australians have their own situation. All of the anglophone countries have something like this on their conscience.I think that obscures the meaning of that final book. I think we don't recognize—and that's really to Swift's credit, to have a social critique that is so real and so deep that you may not even recognize yourself in the picture.Slavery in Gulliver's TravelsOLIVER: Yes. When I read it again—I read it as an undergraduate, but I really was actually more interested in the other parts of Swift's work. And I thought it was brilliant, and then I read it again. And it was more recently that—I didn't understand how I couldn't have seen it, but it's basically a book about slavery, as I come back to it.And in each of the books there is enslavement of a different sort. So, to begin with, Gulliver is the one being kept in a box or kept in a house, or he's chained up by the Lilliputians or Glumdalclitch.HITZ: Right. That's right.OLIVER: She's a very nice sort of master, as it were, [laughter] but he has that box that can be sealed, and the dwarf has him swiping at the wasps. And then the enslavement that the flying island has of the country below is like England and Ireland. And then in the final book, you know, the Houyhnhnms are whipping the Yahoos.HITZ: That's right.OLIVER: The slavery thing gets worse and worse as the book goes on. And one of the things that's clever is that it's funny when Gulliver is enslaved, right? When the wasps are let out and he has to—and Swift sort of does that clever thing where he undermines things by making it a joke at the end. By the book of the Houyhnhnms, there is really very little humor. And the twist at the end is always dark.Gulliver can't see that—he can see that he's a bit like the Yahoos. But he can't see that they've been enslaved in the way that he—the farmer wanted to take him around the kingdom and show him off, and he says, “I couldn't possibly have had children in that condition because I couldn't have it on my conscience that I had begotten a slave, someone born into slavery. I couldn't do that.”HITZ: Right.OLIVER: Then he's in the Houyhnhnms and he can't—it's quite remarkable.HITZ: [laughs] Yes. I don't think it's quite true that in the end there's no humor. I read it with some Catherine Project group a couple of years ago, and one of the readers pointed out that it's not obvious Gulliver isn't leaving his home and sitting out in the ocean and always landing on England every single time; just every time, he lands there.And there's something hilarious about an Englishman that discovers a place where there's all horses, [laughter] and his love of horses overwhelms him, and he becomes persuaded that they're the only rational beings that there are. I mean, that is funny.OLIVER: Yes, I agree. There's a lot of irony and stuff. But I think it's in Lilliput when he describes their manner of writing. And he says they don't write from left to right as we do in England, or from right to left, or up-down like the Chinese, but from one corner to the other, as the ladies do in England. This is very funny, dry humor, and that sort of thing is gone. And the things that surprise you at the end of a sentence or a paragraph are more like, “Oh, and of course I used Yahoo skin to cover the boat.” And you're like, oh my God, this is not a joke anymore.You know, in A Modest Proposal, he makes real humor out of those kind of horrors. And with the Houyhnhnms, I think he actually refuses the joke to make you feel the disgust, in a way.HITZ: Yes, that might be right. That might be right.Swift and PhilosophyOLIVER: What do you think about the idea that the Houyhnhnms are drawn from the Phaedrus and Socrates's idea of the soul with the two horses? And there's the good, rational horse and the vulgar, passionate horse, and the Yahoos are the other horse. You see what I mean?HITZ: Yes, yes.OLIVER: Is Swift showing us the two sides, and Gulliver's mistake is to prefer the one and not the—HITZ: Right, I think I have heard something like this before. I'm a bit skeptical. Swift doesn't strike me as someone who uses philosophy in quite that way. I think he's much more interested in Gulliver's—the Houyhnhnms' self-deception about the kinds of beings they are. They do not say “the thing which is not,” yet Gulliver's master hides from him this conversation about the genocide for quite some time. And maybe we don't know if he tells him quite the whole truth about it. So there's—OLIVER: And he also conceals the fact that the others don't like Gulliver because he's a partial—a reasonable Yahoo, as it were.HITZ: Right. So their self-deception, Gulliver's being taken in by their self-deception, the ways in which they—this is one of the ways that I think it's profound about the nature of slavery. And to cheer us all up, I'll make a Holocaust analogy, as you also did.When I was traveling in Germany some years ago, in one of their Holocaust museums, there was an image from a Nazi-era German newspaper of Jewish people living in complete squalor in the ghetto. And of course, they had forced them into squalor. But somehow they forced them into squalor, and then this reinforces the sense that they're these rat-like beings.And there's something very similar that the Houyhnhnms do to the Yahoos. They force them into this animal state, and then they say, “Oh God, look, these people are disgusting. They just don't know how to act.” That seems to me the kind of level at which Swift is working. He is interested in the nature of a human being, but not in the abstract Platonic sense, I don't think.He strikes me as someone who believes in common sense, common decency, basic freedom, and basic use of reason. And he finds in his time that there's distorting teachings, distorting ways of behavior that have gotten people far off track. To me, that's what it feels like it comes from. It doesn't feel like Plato is in the background to me.OLIVER: Is there an extent to which, though, it's a work of sort of anti-philosophy? As you say, Swift, he likes common sense. He likes ordinary reason, and he likes what he would call the revealed truth of Christianity. So he talks, in his sermons about people, it comes to you from God like a light. It's revealed to you. And he doesn't like this idea that the philosophers can work it all out.And in a way, that's the same sort of mistake that the scientists think they can discover all this stuff, and they go in these crazy ways. And the Houyhnhnms are a bit like that. If you had philosopher-kings, they would end up being perverted examples of rationality because they're ignoring the—so do you think it's anti-philosophy in a way? The book is saying, “No, no, I don't want philosophers”?Criticizing Elite Intellectual CultureHITZ: That's definitely a plausible reading. But it's hard to tell whether it's anti-philosophy or anti a particular style of thinking. It's worth pointing out, in that light, that Gulliver, when he arrives in the land of the Houyhnhnms, before he even meets a horse, he sees a Yahoo who, from what I can tell from the text, is trying to wave at him and say hello, who recognizes him. And he's horrified. He sees him instantly as a monster.So I think immediately upon landing, he sees the Yahoos as monstrous, and that tells me that he must already be off kilter. So he's not just corrupted by the Houyhnhnms; he's been somehow led off track, away from the capacity to recognize fellow human beings before that.And he's come from this—the third book is all about various kinds of inquiry, scientific endeavors, practical endeavors, talking to the greats of the past, necromancy, and various kinds of inquiry into wisdom or things like wisdom. And somehow that's the thing that seems to push him to the point where he can no longer tell what a human being is.OLIVER: One of my favorite parts is when he's with the wizards, and he asks to be shown Homer and Aristotle and all their commentators. And he says that there were vast rooms full of these commentators, endless numbers of them. But Homer and Aristotle didn't recognize any of them because they were all so ashamed of the terrible things they'd said about these great men's works that they kept themselves forever in a different part of the underworld. They couldn't bear the shame of being revealed to having told lies and said second-rate things.It's very, very funny. And I think that's another sort of angle on which the book says, “You're so tempted to make a comment and have an idea and be a philosopher, and you should just accept the revealed truth of what is known. Just stop it. Just stop it.” [laughter]HITZ: Well, I suppose maybe I would also put it this way, that Swift sees the condition of 18th-century Ireland, which is quite poor, very bad. And it's ruled in a savage way by the English, who have a quite flourishing intellectual culture, as it happens, at this time.So I think what he might be is not a critic of philosophy so much as a critic of intellectual culture. Because intellectual culture seems to not only not help with existential concerns like slavery and oppression and savage poverty, but even serves to mask and hide and create illusions behind it.So that's, I guess, how it strikes me, as a book that's hostile to what you'd now call elite intellectual culture. And I don't know how fundamental that critique is, in light of its inability to solve problems for real human beings or to obscure the causes of what's going on with real human beings.OLIVER: I think it's quite fundamental because outside of Gulliver's—I think this comes into Gulliver's Travels, but what he might have said more explicitly elsewhere is, there are people starving in the streets of Dublin. And we've got corrupt politicians and intellectuals saying all these things, but you know, here she is starving. You don't need to work that out. [laughter] There's no question—the reveal—just be a Christian and, like, for goodness' sake . . .HITZ: Yes.OLIVER: And when, for example, he talks to the king of Brobdingnag, and there's that wonderful satire of the English government and everything. And he says, “Those people understood mathematics and poetry and whatever, but I could never drive into their head any sense of the abstract or any of these speculative—they simply didn't know what that was. They didn't know what I was saying.” [laughter]And so in a way, his ideal government is anti-philosophical because it would just look at the human problem in front of it. It wouldn't do speculative science. It wouldn't think of itself as rational, all this Platonic stuff. It would just—she's in rags, she has bare feet, you know?HITZ: Yes, that's right.OLIVER: What do we need a philosopher-king? Like, what are you talking about?HITZ: Exactly.OLIVER: The priest understands this because he's there in the city doing it. And is there something of that in the book, that constant resistance of the cleverness of people who cannot see daily life?HITZ: I think that's absolutely true, and I think it's probably one of the things I love about the book, because I think this somehow gets to something in my own heart. Even though I'm a professional intellectual—I have been my whole life—the distance between the concerns of professional intellectuals and the concerns of living, real people in various parts of the world is very large.And it's even worse when, as it was when I was coming up in grad school, there's a ton of explicit concern and various operations underway to improve life for others, which have zero connection with anything that anyone actually does. So I think the Laputans, which is the beginning of the third book, when Gulliver—OLIVER: The flying island.HITZ: Yes, when Gulliver visits the people on the flying island, who have one eye towards the heavens and one eye pointed inward. And they study music and mathematics, and they live in a giant flying saucer, which has the—OLIVER: And the flappers.HITZ: That's right. [laughter] When someone needs to talk to them, someone flaps their ears so that they pay attention. And their wives all run off with working people because they can't bear to be treated the way they are by men like this. And the flying saucer is not just distant. It also has the power to crush the towns underneath it if it judges them to be rebellious.This image will stick with you for the rest of your life. I mean, it's absolutely perfect, and the perfect image of bad government of a kind when intellectual culture is prized. And it's hinted early on in the book in Lilliput, when the rulers in Lilliput have to do these elaborate dances with ropes.OLIVER: Oh, with the king and the chief minister hold the pole, funny angles, and if you get under it, you get a green ribbon or a red ribbon.HITZ: Exactly. [laughter] And they have these athletic contests of grace and various colored ribbons, and that determine how far you get in the halls of power.OLIVER: Yes. Are you a cabinet minister or a junior minister? Yes, yes.HITZ: Exactly. So there, it's all just a funny joke. But it develops, I think, into the Laputans, people who have kinds of expertise that are actually hostile to them doing any kind of humane governing. So yes, that seems right to me.Christianity in GulliverOLIVER: To what extent is it a Christian book?HITZ: That's an interesting question. I've never found a strong Christian element in it myself. There are satires of religious wars, both in Lilliput, where Lilliput's at war with its neighboring city. Oh, wait a second, there's two different disputes in Lilliput. One is about what side you cut your egg on.OLIVER: There are the Little-Endians and the Big-Endians,HITZ: Right. And then there's also one about heel size. So there's two different kinds of disputes.OLIVER: With the marvelous image that the king is a Short-Heeler. But they think that the heir to the throne might be favorable to the High-Heelers because he has one heel slightly higher than the other, and he walks with a wobbly gait.HITZ: [laughs] That's right. This, again, in Lilliput is just utterly hilarious, outrageous, very silly, obviously a parody of religious wars between different kinds of Christians. But it resurfaces towards the end. It's the Houyhnhnms, where he talks to the Master Horse—OLIVER: And the horse sort of pretends to this great rationality, simply can't understand that men would kill each other over the question of whether flesh is bread or bread is flesh.HITZ: That's right. That's right. That's right. So there's definitely disparaging remarks about religious wars. And as you're talking about it, where along with Swift's praise of common sense, there's a kind of basic Christian morality, which is that the poor and the suffering need attention. That all strikes me as Christian. Apart from that, I'm not sure. If you have a religious take, I'd be interested to hear it.OLIVER: I find it very interesting that Swift had quite strict beliefs. He was not in favor of Catholics. He thought Dissenters should be tolerated, but he wanted the Test Act. He was very particular about all these things. And in his other works, he's quite direct about that. But in this book, he achieves a kind of high ambivalence. And he's not a Little-Ender or a Big-Ender.HITZ: That's right.OLIVER: And he says the religious text on which this is based simply says that you must break the egg at the most convenient end.HITZ: [laughs] That's right.OLIVER: Now, of course, in reality, he's a Little-Ender, and he's very committed to the Reformation, and he thinks it's all terrible that they're not. And it's interesting that someone with such angry, insistent beliefs on the Anglican Church would take this ambivalent position.And he satirizes so much. But the anti-slavery stuff, the description of the Laputans bringing the island down, and then he says, “I've never seen so much want and misery, and there's a wild look in their eyes, and they're wearing rags.” I mean, this is Dublin, right? This is just, along with the slavery, this basic Christian concern for the oppressed, the poor, the suffering.HITZ: Yes, that's right.OLIVER: And so I don't quite know. It's almost like the book is saying, again with this anti-intellectual thing, all these doctrinal disputes and which church this and who believes that. And here we have slaves and poor people and beggars and starving people.HITZ: Right.OLIVER: Christianity should deal with that first. So is the implicit criticism of his fellow Christians, in a way, that they're more interested in these disputes than in the fact that there are enslaved people and suffering people and—you see what I mean?HITZ: Yes, that's right.OLIVER: And Gulliver—the Houyhnhnms are highly rational but not Christian, which is a significant omission. And by the end, are you supposed to wonder if Gulliver actually isn't very much of a Christian? Because he can see this suffering and not respond to it at all.HITZ: Right, when maybe the—is the best person in the book the King of Brobdingnag? Does that seem right? The person with the—at least who says the best things?OLIVER: He says the best things. I think the best person is Glumdalclitch. She shows real charity and real love towards him.HITZ: What about the Houyhnhnm, the one who likes him, who says, “Fare thee well, gentle Yahoo”? It's tear-jerking—OLIVER: Oh, the sorrel nag.HITZ: The sorrel nag. I can literally weep at that moment when she says, “Fare thee well, gentle Yahoo.”OLIVER: That's true. That's true. She and Glumdalclitch are maybe more similar characters. Yes, yes, yes.HITZ: They're similar characters. Okay.OLIVER: And they have that basic, you don't need to call it Christian. You don't need—it doesn't need theology.HITZ: Humane. I would call it humane. Yes.OLIVER: They have that basic love of their fellow. You know, Glumdalclitch doesn't say, “Oh, how amusing this little man is, or how entertaining, or I can make—” She says, “He must be cared for. He looks a bit like me. He must be cared for.”HITZ: Right.OLIVER: And the sorrel nag, again, has the love of the fellow creature.HITZ: That's right. That's right.OLIVER: So I think Swift might be bringing in this, what he thinks of as the revealed truth of Christianity. Like, you shouldn't need telling, you shouldn't need to argue. It's there.HITZ: Right. This is just me making things up, which is what I'm here for. We're podcasting. Yes.OLIVER: Yes, of course. Also, is that not what the philosophers would do? That's what Swift would say.HITZ: But if I was going to make something up, what I would say is something like this: that Swift to me, from the testimony of Gulliver's Travels, which is the book of his I really know the best. I don't know much about the rest of it. He has a level of self-awareness and sophistication. So, he knows that that religious difference is being used as a pretext. He knows that it is obscuring the suffering of these people. So, for the purposes of the book, he says, “Look, if you're a smart person, if you're a smart ruler, if you're an actually humane, intelligent, commonsensical ruler, you know that the fact that they have the wrong religious views is not a reason for them to be enslaved and oppressed and starved.” So that would be my suspicion.And that's why I think, to me, the religion is so light, because it's not really a religious problem. It's actually just a human problem and a political problem that is, how do you run your country so that these subject peoples are allowed to be free and develop themselves and be full human beings? That would be my made-up guess.Students' Views of GulliverOLIVER: What do undergraduates think? What is it that they find interesting in the book, and what do they like or dislike?HITZ: It's been a couple of years. I think they like this idea that—we all think travel is very broadening, a great way to think about the world. You know, you can learn so much about one's fellow human beings. And whatever else is going on in Gulliver's Travels, travel does not necessarily produce enlightenment.So I think they like the attention to the ways in which, even when we are trying to learn, we fail to learn. And the ways in which structures of learning, like traveling or studying science, might actually make you worse and not better, things like that. But it's not a book—I think it's fair to say it's not one of the favorite books of the undergraduates.OLIVER: Okay.HITZ: I think they find it a little bit distant, and I'm not sure why that is.OLIVER: Is it because it sort of looks like a novel, but it's not what we have come to expect a novel to be? And it sort of has that—HITZ: I think that's right.OLIVER: The pre–Jane Austen novel is kind of weird to us now.HITZ: Well, they love Don Quixote.OLIVER: Okay.HITZ: And that is a challenge of a similar kind. It's a novel which doesn't quite read like a novel, and the humor is kind of old. I mean, it's also true—undergraduates, in my experience, in general—I hope they'll forgive me for saying this on a podcast—they're not always good at comedy. They tend to think that serious things must be tragic.OLIVER: You can't get an A by making a joke.HITZ: Well, more that they have a sense that an intellectual life is something serious. It's serious.OLIVER: Oh, yes. Okay. And the syllabus slightly reinforces that, doesn't it?HITZ: Well, it's sort of self-reinforcing because we used to read more Aristophanes. We used to read Rabelais.OLIVER: If you do Shakespeare, it'll be the tragedies.HITZ: No, no, we do Shakespeare comedies.OLIVER: Oh, you do? Okay.HITZ: Yes. We have As You Like It and The Tempest. And do we have more tragedies? Maybe one more tragedy than comedy, but not a terrible imbalance.OLIVER: Well, that's good.HITZ: It's not Shakespeare-type comedy that's—maybe, correct me if I'm wrong, a Shakespeare comedy is something that ends in a marriage, more or less.OLIVER: More or less.HITZ: It's things that are funny—they don't necessarily think that humor is a way of thinking.OLIVER: Do they struggle with irony?HITZ: No, not usually. As long as it's serious irony, Anyway, I'm not sure why. I think I'm making things—I'm going too far out of the grounds for drawing conclusions.Favorite Parts of the BookOLIVER: Sure. Do you have a favorite passage?HITZ: One of my favorites is the part—is it Balnibarbi where they have people who try to speak with objects?OLIVER: Oh, yes, yes, yes.HITZ: And they have to carry around wagons full of things because they never know what you might want to talk about. [laughter] That's so weird. Because I think I spent a lot of time studying with philosophers, there's a bit of—something's on the nose about this.OLIVER: Yes.HITZ: You know, it's like, “No, you've got to say exactly—no, that's too imprecise. You have to say exactly what you mean.” Bernard Williams, the great philosopher, has something complaining about how contemporary philosophers are very controlling of their readers. They don't want anyone to make the slightest mistake about what they mean by a particular word. That's how the people who speak by objects strike me.OLIVER: Do you think that is a problem of contemporary philosophy?HITZ: Oh, sure. Yes, absolutely. Yes. The way Williams puts it is that when you write something, it should be like a cake mix, and the reader should be able to put their own egg and bake the cake themselves.OLIVER: Oh, I see. You mean like a box of mix, yes.HITZ: Yes, yes, exactly. It's like a box of cake mix. Whereas making the cake painstakingly and force-feeding it bite by bite to the reader is not actually an—OLIVER: Telling them how it tastes.HITZ: Telling them how it tastes is not an educational endeavor.OLIVER: When does this become too dominant in philosophy?HITZ: It's a feature of 20th-century analytic philosophy to be very careful with the meanings of words. And it's by no means universal; it's just a natural vice to the territory.Iris MurdochOLIVER: Is this a problem for someone like Iris Murdoch, or is it more the A. J. Ayer type?HITZ: No, it's the A. J. Ayer type, not Iris Murdoch. No, Iris Murdoch is heterodox outside of the—OLIVER: Do you like her philosophy?HITZ: I do, yes.OLIVER: What do you like about it? Platonic?HITZ: Now, see, I came here to talk about Swift. [laughter]OLIVER: I know, but you made such a good point about the satire of philosophers.HITZ: I like her writing for a more general educated audience, her not making assumptions about the philosophical training of her readers, and her use of Plato for sure, which is quite interesting and creative. She sort of ingests Plato and does something with it that I think is very interesting.OLIVER: Is she properly appreciated as a Platonist, or do you think there's more attention to be paid?HITZ: There's probably more attention to be paid, but she gets some attention. She gets some attention. I also don't think it was particularly helpful, these two books that came out a couple of years ago about Murdoch, Foot, Midgley, and Anscombe.OLIVER: Oh, yes, yes, yes. I only read one of those. It was quite good.HITZ: It might be quite good, but those four women are quite different from one another. So it's an example of where attention to identity could obscure as much as it—OLIVER: Well, one of the books was more about the ideas—they were both obviously about the ideas—and one of them was more about the fact that they were together in Oxford. And that they benefited from hanging out, talking, doing different sorts of work, sleeping with each other's husbands, et cetera.HITZ: Yes, all the good stuff.OLIVER: And from the more sociological point of view, it was very interesting to see that, actually, a lot of what Murdoch did was bound up with her friendships and relationships, in that the argument basically is, A. J. Ayer and the others get sent away because of the war. So these four women are actually—they've been banned from this seminar and told they're not allowed.Well, now they can sit around and do what they want to do. And it worked, and they all produced very interesting things. So from that point of view, I think it was—but I agree with you, Elizabeth Anscombe and Iris Murdoch are not the same. [laughter]HITZ: Not even particularly similar. I also feel like I've read enough of Murdoch's novels to have a sense of what the sociological situation was like.OLIVER: You like the novels?HITZ: I do like them, yes.OLIVER: Do you have favorites?HITZ: I can't remember the name of my favorite because I haven't read them for years. It's one of the things I read years ago, the one—I'd remember it if I saw the title. There's an LSD trip at the beginning of it.OLIVER: Oh, The Good Apprentice. I love that book.HITZ: The Good Apprentice, yes. I think that was my favorite. But I never fell in love with it. I just liked it, and I found it interesting, and I found the sociology interesting. Okay, this is what academics at this time period were doing.What to Pair with SwiftOLIVER: We got diverted.HITZ: “We” got diverted. [laughs]OLIVER: We did. If Swift is on a great books syllabus, what is it good to pair him with? If people are reading Swift, on or off a syllabus, do you think there are other—Hooker, you said, which I think would be interesting.HITZ: No, Hooke. It's Hooke.OLIVER: Hooke. Hooke. That's a very good point.HITZ: The guy who wrote Micrographia, who has the enormous picture of the flea.OLIVER: Yes, yes, yes. So that would be good. But any other? Is it worth reading Plato alongside him?HITZ: Well, I like to—he's on the list for something we called Life of the Mind Seminar at Catherine Project, which is our introduction to the life of the mind.OLIVER: And just to tell people, the Catherine Project—this is not a university. Anyone can join a seminar.HITZ: That's right. It's an open online readers community. Consists of small, high-quality conversations, mostly on Zoom, some in person.OLIVER: You could be some kid, an accountant, a dentist, whatever, and you come and do a—you've got a PhD running a seminar, and you get that experience.HITZ: Right. Some of them are peer led, so they're not necessarily PhDs running them. The reading groups are not necessarily run by PhDs. But the core program in which the Life of the Mind Seminar is—either a PhD or an ABD [all but degree] or someone with some academic experience is usually leading that. We have it there, and we have it there with a set of books that are meant to disorient rather than to orient.So one of the difficulties with reading great books with more or less random selections of adults is that people feel uncertain, out of place. And they bring expertise, real or fake, to the table, which makes it very difficult to have a conversation. It's usually fake expertise, for what it's worth.OLIVER: Give us an example of what you mean by fake expertise.HITZ: Well, so someone will have—we'll be, say, reading Hamlet. Someone will have taken a class on Shakespeare in college, and they'll say, “Actually, we're asking this question. But what I learned, my professor told me, is that Hamlet actually symbolizes—he has an Oedipus complex and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then this is what this means, and this is what that means.” And then your conversation's over, because you need to focus just on the text that's shared between the—OLIVER: It's not a crossword puzzle.HITZ: Exactly. It's not a crossword puzzle, and it's not something where—or the other—people often, again, they feel a bit on their back feet. So they'll google a bunch of stuff about the author, and they'll start tossing out random facts about the book or about the author, about the context. And again, you don't get really into the meat of the book that way.So, Gulliver's Travels is there to help us think about ways in which we might not be expert in things we're expert. Ways in which we might think we understand something and not understand it. And ways in which people who, with every appearance of seriousness and scientific principle, can just say unbelievably stupid things.So it's a very, very good book for that, where in that sense, it's I think very good for any liberal education program. It's liberating that way. One of the things we need to be liberated from is false expertise.OLIVER: You're talking really about these secondhand opinions that you haven't interrogated and come to understand yourself.HITZ: Exactly. Exactly, exactly, exactly.OLIVER: This is what Mill says. Everything is new to someone, and the real genius is that you find it out.HITZ: Exactly.OLIVER: You don't get taught it. Yes, yes.HITZ: Exactly, exactly. So real learning is things you find for yourself. Anyway, that's what I like it with. As for pairing it, yes, I think it would just depend on what you were—I don't have a clear thought about that. I think it'd be good to pair it with Galileo's Starry Messenger and preface to Hooke's Micrographia.But you could also pair it with Emma. Be quite good, actually, because Emma is also about someone who really doesn't know what they're doing and has no idea. Thinks they know what's going on; they really have no idea what's going on.OLIVER: Yes. Hamlet as well, in fact.HITZ: I guess so. Does he not know what's going on?OLIVER: Who's diverting now? [laughter] Well, there's an interesting question, isn't there, about whether Hamlet has legitimate doubts. So he says, “This ghost could be a demon. I should be careful. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm going to pretend to be mad. I'm going to find out.” Or whether he just doesn't want to see the truth in front of him, and he quote-unquote “delays” because of that. I don't know if you have a view.HITZ: I don't think he's deluded. I think the problem is something different, but I haven't thought enough about it recently to know what his volitional obstacle is. But I don't think he's deluded. I think he sees what's going on, but there's something about acting that doesn't work for him.OLIVER: An internal—HITZ: Something internal. Something internal. In a way, I find the play very hard. I don't know what, for instance, what does that obstacle have to do with Ophelia? What's going on with that? Anyway, he's very mysterious, but I don't—yes, that'd be my sense, is that he's not—OLIVER: Do you buy this idea that he's a nihilist?HITZ: No, although he's definitely faced with something like nihilism. He has to look at it. And of course, the play does end with everyone dead, [laughs] so it's not obvious that he's wrong.Sympathy for GulliverOLIVER: This question hangs over Gulliver as well. Is the problem by the end that he's basically become a nihilist? His response to the Yahoos is to deny meaning, deny the possibility of meaning, to shut himself away.HITZ: He is a true misanthrope. He hates human beings and refuses to interact with them and in that sense, in some way, removes himself from any further mistakes. In another way, the mistake that he's in is so massive that that hardly seems like a consolation. But yes, he's definitely stuck, and he's stuck in a place where who he is—because he's a human being. We have to remember that.So he's in a place of total self-hatred and the hatred of his neighbor, what you'd call from the Christian perspective a total loss of charity. Is that nihilist? I don't know, but it's definitely bad. It's not a good state to be in. Maybe I don't know what you mean by nihilism exactly.OLIVER: Are we supposed to disapprove of him at the end or sympathize with him?HITZ: Disapprove, I think.OLIVER: Yes? You don't feel sorry for him?HITZ: I do a bit.OLIVER: But not much.HITZ: Well, should I?OLIVER: I have come to believe—yes, this is what I've come to feel in subsequent readings, is that Gulliver, as you say, is very mistaken. He thinks he understands things that he does not understand. He has the sort of pretense of rationality, but he lacks any sort of meta rationality to see what his limits are.And he becomes, therefore—he doesn't advocate genocide, and he doesn't take any pleasure in using Yahoo skin, but he's just completely null to it. There's a sort of void there where human feeling ought to be. And it's tragic for him. It's a tragic ending that he is so isolated. And we can't sympathize with him, as it were, but we can feel sort of awful that he's shriveled into this state rather than judging or blame.I think one of the persistent themes of the book is, as I say, this kind of basic love of fellow creature, the Glumdalclitch or the sorrel. And if you take that from the book, you will wish you could bring Gulliver back.HITZ: Right. What you're saying reminds me that there is an interesting parallel in Plato's dialogues that I hadn't thought of before, Plato's Parmenides, which is perhaps the most difficult Plato's dialogue. So it's a conversation between young Socrates and the philosopher Parmenides. The first third of it is relatively clear, some arguments against what people think of as Plato's theory of forms.Then there's an extensive, insane dialectical process where various theses about the connection between being and oneness are both argued for and then refuted, and argued for and then refuted, pages and pages and pages and pages of it. So this seems to be—it's Parmenides and Zeno who are running Socrates through this ringer.And the person at the very beginning of the dialogue who they have to go find, to tell him the story of how Socrates met Parmenides, used to study philosophy. But now he just trains horses. [laughs] One of my teachers pointed this out to me, and I've never been able to get over it, that he spent this time doing philosophy, and he's like, “You know what? I'm going to work with horses for the rest of my life. If I never hear another human voice, that's fine with me.”So I think that is an interesting parallel. And I think it is not really that uncommon to see people who are totally disillusioned with relating to humans, who then relate to animals instead, like they devote themselves to animals.OLIVER: But on that reading, it might be a disillusionment with philosophical humanity. It might be philosophy that's killed Gulliver's human feeling.HITZ: That's right. Well, I think that's one possibility, one very strong possibility. That's why I think the Houyhnhnms come after the Laputans. Going to the furthest reaches of his intellectual interests just destroys his humanity.But it doesn't seem like exhaustion in the same way that whoever, I can't remember his name, the character who relates the Parmenides, where you just think he must be exhausted from having heard more than one conversation like this. [laughter] And just in the stable with the horses eating oats, I mean, it's just delightful. It's just so peaceful, you know?OLIVER: Bucolic, pastoral, yes.HITZ: Yes, exactly. Exactly. Maybe you're right that we should be more sympathetic to someone in that situation.OLIVER: Well, next time you read it, you can tell me if you change your mind.HITZ: All right. I will tell you if I change my mind.OLIVER: Very good. Zena Hitz, thank you very much.HITZ: Thank you very much, Henry Oliver. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.commonreader.co.uk

In this special episode, recorded as part of AEI's American Dream Lecture Series, Dr. Zena Hitz addresses the role of liberal education in sustaining the democratic project. She also identifies the most significant threats to liberal learning and offers practical remedies that might address them. After her lecture, Zena sat down with Chris for a […]

Real Presence Live - Bishop Scott Bullock + Zena Hitz | Feb 25, 2026 by Catholic Diocese of Rapid City, SD

Zena is the speaker invited by Bishop Bullock to the Rapid City diocese's upcoming pastoral ministry days. We discuss what will be happening during the ministry days with them

Film critic Joe Wilson joins to share his take on Pope Leo's favorite flicks and the similar themes they all have, and the role film can play in forming young minds and hearts especially during this holiday season. We also talk with Zena Hitz about the Catherine Project, an open education endeavor, and the many 'hidden pleasures of an intellectual life.' Msgr. Roger Landry also shares the real meaning of the Immaculate Conception as we prepare for the feast day on Monday, as we continue through this Advent season. Catch the show every Saturday at 7amET/5pmET on EWTN radio!

Hello, Today, we have back on one of our favorite guests, Zena Hitz, a philosopher who teaches at St. John's College. We talk about Kimmel's canceling and uncanceling, the history of free speech in a conformist country like America, and the university's place as the crucible for all discourse refereeing. Is this a good thing or is the modern university uniquely unqualified to hold such importance? Enjoy! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodbye.substack.com/subscribe

In an overloaded, superficial, technological world, in which almost everything and everybody is judged by its usefulness, where can we turn for escape, lasting pleasure, contemplation, or connection to others? While many forms of leisure meet these needs, Zena Hitz writes, few experiences are so fulfilling as the inner life, whether that of a bookworm, an amateur astronomer, a birdwatcher, or someone who takes a deep interest in one of countless other subjects. Drawing on inspiring examples, from Socrates and Augustine to Malcolm X and Elena Ferrante, and from films to Dr. Hitz's own experiences as someone who walked away from elite university life in search of greater fulfillment, Lost in Thought is a passionate and timely reminder that a rich life is a life rich in thought.Today, when even the humanities are often defended only for their economic or political usefulness, Dr. Hitz says our intellectual lives are valuable not despite but because of their practical uselessness. And while anyone can have an intellectual life, she encourages academics in particular to get back in touch with the desire to learn for its own sake, and calls on universities to return to the person-to-person transmission of the habits of mind and heart that bring out the best in us. Reminding us of who we once were and who we might become, Lost in Thought is a moving account of why renewing our inner lives is fundamental to preserving our humanity. Our guest is: Dr. Zena Hitz, who is a Tutor in the great books program at St. John's College. She has a PhD in ancient philosophy from Princeton University and studies and teaches across the liberal arts. She is the founder of the Catherine Project, and the author of Lost in Thought. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, who works as a developmental editor and grad student coach. She is the founder of the Academic Life project including this podcast, and writes the Academic Life Newsletter at ChristinaGessler.Substack.Com. Playlist for listeners: Once Upon A Tome Skills for Scholars: How Can Mindfulness Help? The Well-Gardened Mind Community Building and How We Show Up The Good-Enough Life Look Again: The Power of Noticing What Was Already There Tackling Burnout How To Human Common-Sense Ideas For Diversity and Inclusion Hope for the Humanities PhD Welcome to Academic Life, the podcast for your academic journey—and beyond! Please join us again to learn from more experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world. Missed any of the 275+ Academic Life episodes? Find them here. And thank you for listening! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

In an overloaded, superficial, technological world, in which almost everything and everybody is judged by its usefulness, where can we turn for escape, lasting pleasure, contemplation, or connection to others? While many forms of leisure meet these needs, Zena Hitz writes, few experiences are so fulfilling as the inner life, whether that of a bookworm, an amateur astronomer, a birdwatcher, or someone who takes a deep interest in one of countless other subjects. Drawing on inspiring examples, from Socrates and Augustine to Malcolm X and Elena Ferrante, and from films to Dr. Hitz's own experiences as someone who walked away from elite university life in search of greater fulfillment, Lost in Thought is a passionate and timely reminder that a rich life is a life rich in thought.Today, when even the humanities are often defended only for their economic or political usefulness, Dr. Hitz says our intellectual lives are valuable not despite but because of their practical uselessness. And while anyone can have an intellectual life, she encourages academics in particular to get back in touch with the desire to learn for its own sake, and calls on universities to return to the person-to-person transmission of the habits of mind and heart that bring out the best in us. Reminding us of who we once were and who we might become, Lost in Thought is a moving account of why renewing our inner lives is fundamental to preserving our humanity. Our guest is: Dr. Zena Hitz, who is a Tutor in the great books program at St. John's College. She has a PhD in ancient philosophy from Princeton University and studies and teaches across the liberal arts. She is the founder of the Catherine Project, and the author of Lost in Thought. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, who works as a developmental editor and grad student coach. She is the founder of the Academic Life project including this podcast, and writes the Academic Life Newsletter at ChristinaGessler.Substack.Com. Playlist for listeners: Once Upon A Tome Skills for Scholars: How Can Mindfulness Help? The Well-Gardened Mind Community Building and How We Show Up The Good-Enough Life Look Again: The Power of Noticing What Was Already There Tackling Burnout How To Human Common-Sense Ideas For Diversity and Inclusion Hope for the Humanities PhD Welcome to Academic Life, the podcast for your academic journey—and beyond! Please join us again to learn from more experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world. Missed any of the 275+ Academic Life episodes? Find them here. And thank you for listening!

In an overloaded, superficial, technological world, in which almost everything and everybody is judged by its usefulness, where can we turn for escape, lasting pleasure, contemplation, or connection to others? While many forms of leisure meet these needs, Zena Hitz writes, few experiences are so fulfilling as the inner life, whether that of a bookworm, an amateur astronomer, a birdwatcher, or someone who takes a deep interest in one of countless other subjects. Drawing on inspiring examples, from Socrates and Augustine to Malcolm X and Elena Ferrante, and from films to Dr. Hitz's own experiences as someone who walked away from elite university life in search of greater fulfillment, Lost in Thought is a passionate and timely reminder that a rich life is a life rich in thought.Today, when even the humanities are often defended only for their economic or political usefulness, Dr. Hitz says our intellectual lives are valuable not despite but because of their practical uselessness. And while anyone can have an intellectual life, she encourages academics in particular to get back in touch with the desire to learn for its own sake, and calls on universities to return to the person-to-person transmission of the habits of mind and heart that bring out the best in us. Reminding us of who we once were and who we might become, Lost in Thought is a moving account of why renewing our inner lives is fundamental to preserving our humanity. Our guest is: Dr. Zena Hitz, who is a Tutor in the great books program at St. John's College. She has a PhD in ancient philosophy from Princeton University and studies and teaches across the liberal arts. She is the founder of the Catherine Project, and the author of Lost in Thought. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, who works as a developmental editor and grad student coach. She is the founder of the Academic Life project including this podcast, and writes the Academic Life Newsletter at ChristinaGessler.Substack.Com. Playlist for listeners: Once Upon A Tome Skills for Scholars: How Can Mindfulness Help? The Well-Gardened Mind Community Building and How We Show Up The Good-Enough Life Look Again: The Power of Noticing What Was Already There Tackling Burnout How To Human Common-Sense Ideas For Diversity and Inclusion Hope for the Humanities PhD Welcome to Academic Life, the podcast for your academic journey—and beyond! Please join us again to learn from more experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world. Missed any of the 275+ Academic Life episodes? Find them here. And thank you for listening! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/academic-life

In an overloaded, superficial, technological world, in which almost everything and everybody is judged by its usefulness, where can we turn for escape, lasting pleasure, contemplation, or connection to others? While many forms of leisure meet these needs, Zena Hitz writes, few experiences are so fulfilling as the inner life, whether that of a bookworm, an amateur astronomer, a birdwatcher, or someone who takes a deep interest in one of countless other subjects. Drawing on inspiring examples, from Socrates and Augustine to Malcolm X and Elena Ferrante, and from films to Dr. Hitz's own experiences as someone who walked away from elite university life in search of greater fulfillment, Lost in Thought is a passionate and timely reminder that a rich life is a life rich in thought.Today, when even the humanities are often defended only for their economic or political usefulness, Dr. Hitz says our intellectual lives are valuable not despite but because of their practical uselessness. And while anyone can have an intellectual life, she encourages academics in particular to get back in touch with the desire to learn for its own sake, and calls on universities to return to the person-to-person transmission of the habits of mind and heart that bring out the best in us. Reminding us of who we once were and who we might become, Lost in Thought is a moving account of why renewing our inner lives is fundamental to preserving our humanity. Our guest is: Dr. Zena Hitz, who is a Tutor in the great books program at St. John's College. She has a PhD in ancient philosophy from Princeton University and studies and teaches across the liberal arts. She is the founder of the Catherine Project, and the author of Lost in Thought. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, who works as a developmental editor and grad student coach. She is the founder of the Academic Life project including this podcast, and writes the Academic Life Newsletter at ChristinaGessler.Substack.Com. Playlist for listeners: Once Upon A Tome Skills for Scholars: How Can Mindfulness Help? The Well-Gardened Mind Community Building and How We Show Up The Good-Enough Life Look Again: The Power of Noticing What Was Already There Tackling Burnout How To Human Common-Sense Ideas For Diversity and Inclusion Hope for the Humanities PhD Welcome to Academic Life, the podcast for your academic journey—and beyond! Please join us again to learn from more experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world. Missed any of the 275+ Academic Life episodes? Find them here. And thank you for listening! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/education

In an overloaded, superficial, technological world, in which almost everything and everybody is judged by its usefulness, where can we turn for escape, lasting pleasure, contemplation, or connection to others? While many forms of leisure meet these needs, Zena Hitz writes, few experiences are so fulfilling as the inner life, whether that of a bookworm, an amateur astronomer, a birdwatcher, or someone who takes a deep interest in one of countless other subjects. Drawing on inspiring examples, from Socrates and Augustine to Malcolm X and Elena Ferrante, and from films to Dr. Hitz's own experiences as someone who walked away from elite university life in search of greater fulfillment, Lost in Thought is a passionate and timely reminder that a rich life is a life rich in thought.Today, when even the humanities are often defended only for their economic or political usefulness, Dr. Hitz says our intellectual lives are valuable not despite but because of their practical uselessness. And while anyone can have an intellectual life, she encourages academics in particular to get back in touch with the desire to learn for its own sake, and calls on universities to return to the person-to-person transmission of the habits of mind and heart that bring out the best in us. Reminding us of who we once were and who we might become, Lost in Thought is a moving account of why renewing our inner lives is fundamental to preserving our humanity. Our guest is: Dr. Zena Hitz, who is a Tutor in the great books program at St. John's College. She has a PhD in ancient philosophy from Princeton University and studies and teaches across the liberal arts. She is the founder of the Catherine Project, and the author of Lost in Thought. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, who works as a developmental editor and grad student coach. She is the founder of the Academic Life project including this podcast, and writes the Academic Life Newsletter at ChristinaGessler.Substack.Com. Playlist for listeners: Once Upon A Tome Skills for Scholars: How Can Mindfulness Help? The Well-Gardened Mind Community Building and How We Show Up The Good-Enough Life Look Again: The Power of Noticing What Was Already There Tackling Burnout How To Human Common-Sense Ideas For Diversity and Inclusion Hope for the Humanities PhD Welcome to Academic Life, the podcast for your academic journey—and beyond! Please join us again to learn from more experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world. Missed any of the 275+ Academic Life episodes? Find them here. And thank you for listening! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Dcn. Harrison Garlick, Chancellor and General Counsel of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Tulsa, welcomes Dr. Zena Hitz, a tutor at St. John's College and founder of the Catherine Project, to discuss Aristophanes' comedic masterpiece, The Clouds. The episode dives into the play's biting humor, its critique of Athenian society, and its timeless questions about education, piety, and moral decay. From the Thinkery's absurd teachings to the mysterious Clouds, Dcn. Garlick and Zena unpack the play's relevance to modern audiences, exploring themes of social ambition, familial breakdown, and the consequences of abandoning traditional values.Check out thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule and more!Check out our Patreon page for our library of written guides!Key Discussion PointsAristophanes and The Clouds: Born around 446 BC, Aristophanes, the father of comedy, wrote The Clouds in 423 BC, nearly a decade into the Peloponnesian War. The play, a revised version not performed but circulated for reading, critiques Athenian decadence and intellectual trends through the story of Strepsiades, a debt-ridden father, and his son Phidippides. “Aristophanes in general is interested in portraying through this kind of ridiculous, sometimes slapstick, sometimes obscene comedy, certain truths” – Dr. Zena Hitz (16:47).The Thinkery and Education: The Thinkery, led by Socrates, teaches deceptive rhetoric and speculative inquiries, parodying new intellectual movements. It raises questions about education's societal role. “The question about what an education is for and whether it helps the community or hurts it is a very basic fundamental question” – Dr. Zena Hitz (19:53).Piety and Political Stability: The play links reverence for traditional gods to social cohesion, showing how the Thinkery's impiety destabilizes family and polis. “Belief in the gods is standing in for… sticking to the moral code that's keeping the whole society together” – Dr. Zena Hitz (31:08).Socrates' Portrayal: Socrates is depicted as a buffoonish sophist, but his role is ambiguous—possibly a stand-in for broader trends rather than the historical figure. “Strepsiades is the target… Socrates in a way is just being used to show something up about Strepsiades” – Dr. Zena Hitz (44:01).The Clouds' Role: The personified Clouds, worshipped in the Thinkery, symbolize deceptive speech and align with comic poets, adding complexity. “Clouds cover things up. So there's some kind of image for deceptive speech” – Dr. Zena Hitz (49:20).Socio-Economic Context: Set in a wealthy but decadent Athens, the play critiques social ambition and debt, mirroring modern struggles. “It's in a way a very American story” – Dr. Zena Hitz (24:00).Moral Precedent and Human Nature: Strepsiades' attempt to bend moral standards for gain backfires, reflecting universal human flaws. “You never want the full consequences of that one piece of wrongdoing… It never works out that way” – Dr. Zena Hitz (33:47).Translation Challenges: The episode highlights the importance of choosing a translation that preserves Aristophanes' puns and humor, with recommendations for Arrowsmith and Sommerstein. “The translation on the Aristophanes actually matters a lot” – Dcn. Harrison Garlick (54:58).About Our GuestDr. Zena Hitz is a tutor at St. John's College and the founder and president of the Catherine Project, a nonprofit offering free, open-access reading groups and tutorials on great...

This lecture is entitled A Conversation on Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of the Intellectual Life. It was presented by Zena Hitz of St John's College and Erin Walsh of the Universty of Chicago on February 2, 2022, at the University of Chicago's Swift Hall.

Hello! Today we're talking about a new essay in the New Yorker that asks how we might think about knowledge, learning, and the meaning of life in a world where Chat GPT replaces a lot of our core knowledge functions. To discuss this piece and its implications (and to argue back on it) we brought on Zena Hitz, a philosopher, a tutor at St. John's College, and a founder of the Catherine Project. We talked about great books, luddism, overblown AI doomerism and how to think. We really enjoyed this conversation and honestly was hoping it would never end bc Zena was such a fun and compelling guest. Enjoy! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodbye.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode, the guys are all here, and joined by Zena Hitz of St. John's College. Together, the group dive into Plato's Charmides. What does true wisdom look like? Can self-knowledge lead to a well-ordered soul? Listen in as the cast explore the dialogue's reflections on temperance, philosophy, and the limits of human understanding. Plato's insights offer a compelling perspective on the pursuit of wisdom in the modern world.

I've been a big Zena Hitz fan since I read Lost in Thought in 2020, a book I am still recommending to people nearly five years later. We talked about Shakespeare, children's books, St John's College, the Catherine Project, whether you should read secondary literature, Tolkien, nuns, and we had a giggle while we did so. Zena is one of the best public intellectuals who remains deeply committed to reading the Great Books and I was very pleased to record this conversation with her. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.commonreader.co.uk/subscribe

Think for a second briefly about the excitement of learning something new as a child. That sense of wonder and accomplishment when you first figured out how to write a bike, solve a puzzle, or read a book. That joy doesn't have to end with childhood, and in fact, lifelong learning is the secret to maintaining that spark of happiness throughout our lifetime.To find out the art of unlocking happiness, Harvesting Happiness Podcast host Lisa Cypers Kamen speaks with the founder and president of the Catherine Project, Dr. Zena Hitz.This episode is proudly sponsored by:Nutrafol — Offers a drug-free whole-body health approach to hair wellness and growth. Get $10 off your 1st month's subscription + free shipping. Visit nutrafol.com and use promo code HH.Like what you're hearing?WANT MORE SOUND IDEAS FOR DEEPER THINKING? Check out More Mental Fitness by Harvesting Happiness bonus content available exclusively on Substack and Medium.

Think for a second briefly about the excitement of learning something new as a child. That sense of wonder and accomplishment when you first figured out how to write a bike, solve a puzzle, or read a book. That joy doesn't have to end with childhood, and in fact, lifelong learning is the secret to maintaining that spark of happiness throughout our lifetime.To find out the art of unlocking happiness, Harvesting Happiness Podcast host Lisa Cypers Kamen speaks with the founder and president of the Catherine Project, Dr. Zena Hitz.This episode is proudly sponsored by:Nutrafol — Offers a drug-free whole-body health approach to hair wellness and growth. Get $10 off your 1st month's subscription + free shipping. Visit nutrafol.com and use promo code HH.Like what you're hearing?WANT MORE SOUND IDEAS FOR DEEPER THINKING? Check out More Mental Fitness by Harvesting Happiness bonus content available exclusively on Substack and Medium.

What is the meaning of intellectual life? In modern education, educators and students alike are often disillusioned by the attitude prevalent in educational institutions that emphasizes usefulness and practicality rather than contemplating the meaning and purpose of life. Zena Hitz shares her own disillusionment and frustrations as an educator, and how she found the true… Download Audio

The Jepson School of Leadership Studies Gary L. McDowell Institute presents Zena Hitz, tutor at St. John's College and the author of "Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life," for a discussion of the same name. March 21, 2024 The Gary L. McDowell Institute is dedicated to its namesake's values and principles: free inquiry, thoughtful deliberation, and rigorous discussion of classical texts and issues in political economy. The Institute welcomes all members of the University of Richmond community and a wide range of political perspectives.

The past year or so hasn't been the best one for higher education. Debates over affirmative action, free speech, and affordability, combined with recent cuts to the humanities, have led many to wonder what the future holds.  Here to speak about all of this is Nicholas Dirks, former chancellor of the University of California, Berkeley, and author of City of Intellect: The Uses and Abuses of the University.  Dirks argues that we certainly need structural change. Even more important is that colleges and universities return to their core functions: the pursuit of free inquiry, reasoning about fundamental human values, and training future generations of engaged citizens.  For further reading:  Zena Hitz on why we need the humanities Nancy Dallavalle on whether Catholic colleges have a future Our recent editorial on affirmative action and affordability

Zena Hitz on our time, its value, and how we might spend it if we had more of it.

On this special year-end episode, we're revisiting four of our favorite conversations from the past year.  Sociologist Matthew Desmond explains how the United States can choose to abolish poverty. Sr. Helen Prejean and singer Ryan McKinney discuss the Metropolitan Opera's production of Dead Man Walking. Poet-scholar and slam champion Joshua Bennett talks about the history of spoken word. And philosopher Zena Hitz unpacks the spirit of “wholeheartedness” at the center of religious life.  Listen to the full conversations here:  Matthew Desmond on poverty in America Sr. Helen Prejean and Ryan McKinney on Dead Man Walking Joshua Bennett on spoken word poetry  Zena Hitz on the essence of religious life

I sit down with Zena Hitz and we dive into the intricacies of religion and spirituality, exploring how they shape our personal and societal landscapes. This episode offers a unique perspective on the transformative power of faith, the role of religion in fostering personal growth, and the balance between asceticism and living in a modern, materialistic world. Zena's insights provide a deep understanding of the complexities of religious life, inviting listeners to reflect on their own spiritual journeys. Tune in for an enlightening discussion that transcends conventional views on religion and spirituality. Zena Hitz is a Tutor at St. John's College in Annapolis, where she teaches across the liberal arts. She is the author of Lost In Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life (2020) and A Philosopher Looks At the Religious Life. In 2020 she received the Hiett Prize in the Humanities and founded the Catherine Project, an open liberal arts program for adults, where she now serves as president. SHOWNOTES -  00:00:00 - Coming Up... 00:00:45 - Show Intro 00:01:19 - Guest Intro 00:04:15 - What led to the conception of 'A Philosopher Looks at the Religious Life' 00:09:15 - The approach to maintain when you talk about religion 00:12:15 - Transformative power of faith 00:17:20 - Choosing spirituality over religion 00:22:30 - Religion using fear to control people 00:28:00 - How to begin your religious journey 00:32:35 - Signs of a 'healthy' religious community 00:36:30 - Surrender vs Conviction  00:39:50 - Understanding asceticism 00:43:00 - Ego and Religion 00:48:40 - Coexistence of religious inclinations and hatred towards others 00:59:30 - Maintaining an ascetic soul in a materialistic society 01:04:00 - Sharing your religious beliefs with non-believers  01:11:00 - Meeting God   CONNECT WITH ZENA HITZ -  A Philosopher Looks at the Religious Life by Zena Hitz -https://www.cambridge.org/us/universitypress/subjects/religion/philosophy-religion/philosopher-looks-religious-life?format=PB Zena Hitz | Website - https://www.zenahitz.net/ Zena Hitz | X - https://twitter.com/zenahitz   CONNECT WITH ME - Take the EmoPersona Quiz - https://www.kratimehra.com/emopersonaquiz/ Subscribe to the Newsletter - https://www.kratimehra.com/newsletter/ Follow me on Instagram - https://www.kratimehra.com/mehra_krati/

This lecture was given on September 14, 2023, at Yale University For more information on upcoming events, please visit our website at www.thomisticinstitute.org. About the speaker: Zena Hitz is a Tutor at St. John's College where she teaches across the liberal arts. She is interested in defending intellectual activity for its own sake, as against its use for economic or political goals. Her forthcoming book, Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life, is rooted in essays that have appeared in First Things, Modern Age, and The Washington Post. Her scholarly work has focused on the political thought of Plato and Aristotle, especially the question of how law cultivates or fails to cultivate human excellence. She received an MPhil in Classics from Cambridge and studied Social Thought and Philosophy at the University of Chicago before finishing her PhD in Philosophy at Princeton.

“This day will end like all others.”“And after that?”In this conversation, Caleb speaks with Zena Hitz about her recent book “A philosopher looks at the religious life.” They discuss meaning, Christianity, and Stoicism.https://catherineproject.org/(01:10) Wholeheartedness(06:59) Meaning(14:18) Abandonment(17:45) Devotion and Role Ethics(30:08) Service and Happiness(40:32) Freedom(44:33) Nietzsche***Subscribe to The Stoa Letter for weekly meditations, actions, and links to the best Stoic resources: www.stoaletter.com/subscribeDownload the Stoa app (it's a free download): stoameditation.com/podIf you try the Stoa app and find it useful, but truly cannot afford it, email us and we'll set you up with a free account.Listen to more episodes and learn more here: https://stoameditation.com/blog/stoa-conversations/Thanks to Michael Levy for graciously letting us use his music in the conversations: https://ancientlyre.com/

In this episode:Zena Hitz joins the podcast to talk about the enduring value and necessity of a liberal arts educationhow class and economic considerations describe the shifts towards “practical” studies and coursework to the neglect of “the fundamental questions”the connection between ascetic practice and proper reasoning, and how education requires retreat from the present thingsTexts Mentioned:Lost in Thought by Zena Hitzcatherineproject.orgNicomachean Ethics by AristotleSophist by PlatoPhaedrus by PlatoWealth of Nations by Adam SmithCity of God by AugustineRepublic by PlatoDemocracy in America by Alexis de TocquevilleConfessions by AugustineGenesisBecome a part of ISI:Become a MemberSupport ISIUpcoming ISI Events

To lead into the next season of Enduring Interest, we're re-releasing our first two seasons, covering totalitarianism and ideology and liberal education.  We'll be back on September 8 with a new season covering free speech and censorship. This month we are pleased to bring you a special episode that departs from our normal path. For the past several months, we've been looking at forgotten or neglected books and essays on liberal education. We're very excited to bring you this conversation with three authors who've all written recently published books on liberal education. We have Zena Hitz, author of LOST IN THOUGHT: THE HIDDEN PLEASURES OF AN INTELLECTUAL LIFE; Jonathan Marks, author of LET'S BE REASONABLE: A CONSERVATIVE CASE FOR LIBERAL EDUCATION; and Roosevelt Montás, author of RESCUING SOCRATES: HOW THE GREAT BOOKS CHANGED MY LIFE AND WHY THEY MATTER FOR A NEW GENERATION. All three books provide a defense of liberal education rooted in the great books, but they do so in strikingly different ways. We discuss desire, shame, and the how the encounter with great authors can shape your soul. Each author talks about the importance and difficulties of the teacher-student relationship. And we discuss the various threats and challenges to liberal education today. Zena Hitz is a Tutor at St. John's College and the founder of the Catherine Project. Jonathan Marks in Professor of Politics and chair of the Department of Politics and International Relations at Ursinus College. Roosevelt Montás is Senior Lecturer in American Studies and English at Columbia University. He is the Director of the American Studies' Freedom and Citizenship Program. Here are some links to reviews: Zena on Jonathan Jonathan on Zena Jonathan on Roosevelt Roosevelt on Zena Flagg on Zena

Throwback to the big five-oh: Episode 50 with Zena Hitz and Chad Wellmon! On April 26, 2022, ⁠The Institute for Human Ecology⁠ at the Catholic University of America hosted a launch event to reveal the new design and website of Sacred and Profane Love. I am pleased to share the audio of that event as episode 50, but you can also watch a video of it ⁠here⁠. This event, with ⁠Zena Hitz⁠ and Chad Wellmon, was titled “Are the Humanities in Crisis” and the two starting points for the conversation were two books that we have already discussed separately on the podcast: Zena's ⁠Lost in Thought⁠ and Chad's ⁠Permanent Crisis⁠. I wrote about the first book ⁠here⁠, the second book ⁠here⁠, discussed the first book ⁠here⁠, and discussed the second book ⁠here⁠.  It seems fitting that our fiftieth episode should get into the very issues that gave rise to the impetus to start the podcast in the first place, which was and remains the need to show the value of humanistic inquiry and reflection, both inside and outside of the academy.  As always, I hope you enjoy our conversation.

Throwback to the big five-oh: Episode 50 with Zena Hitz and Chad Wellmon! On April 26, 2022, ⁠The Institute for Human Ecology⁠ at the Catholic University of America hosted a launch event to reveal the new design and website of Sacred and Profane Love. I am pleased to share the audio of that event as episode 50, but you can also watch a video of it ⁠here⁠. This event, with ⁠Zena Hitz⁠ and Chad Wellmon, was titled “Are the Humanities in Crisis” and the two starting points for the conversation were two books that we have already discussed separately on the podcast: Zena's ⁠Lost in Thought⁠ and Chad's ⁠Permanent Crisis⁠. I wrote about the first book ⁠here⁠, the second book ⁠here⁠, discussed the first book ⁠here⁠, and discussed the second book ⁠here⁠.  It seems fitting that our fiftieth episode should get into the very issues that gave rise to the impetus to start the podcast in the first place, which was and remains the need to show the value of humanistic inquiry and reflection, both inside and outside of the academy.  As always, I hope you enjoy our conversation.

Religious life stands in radical opposition to much of modern culture. But what is it, exactly?  On this episode, philosopher Zena Hitz speaks with senior editor Matt Boudway about her new book on religious life—a crucial part of the Catholic Church, and one that remains poorly understood.  Religious life is not primarily about what you give up, Hitz explains. Rather, it's a way of orienting your whole self around a single purpose: loving God, and serving God's people.  For further reading:  Zena Hitz on renunciation and happiness Jonathan Malesic visits a desert monastery Regina Munch farms with lay Catholics

Caravaggio, David and Goliath: a dangling self-portrait My guest Scott Samuelson didn't visit Rome until he was in his mid 30s. Since then, with COVID exceptions, he has gone to Rome every summer.  These trips, and his thoughtfulness and wonder at what he  has seen there  has resulted in a wonderful and idiosyncratic book. He describes it as “an exploration of both the city and the visions of life inspired by it, an eclectic guide that blends history, art, literature, religion, and philosophy. My aim is to see how much our souls can be instructed not only by thinkers like Cicero, Seneca, and Giordano Bruno but also by sites like the Forum, the Villa Farnesina, and the Galleria Borghese.” The result is Rome as a Guide to the Good Life: A Philosophical Grand Tour.  Scott Samuelson is a professor at Kirkwood Community College in Iowa. He  also works with the Catherine Project—brainchild of friend of the podcast Zena Hitz–where experienced teachers engage great books with a small group of readers for free. For his work in bringing philosophy to the public, he won the 2015 Hiett Prize in the Humanities. This is his third book.   For Further Information If you enjoyed this conversation, and are new to the podcast, then give a listen to my conversations with Zena Hitz (mentioned above), and with Scott Newstok–who introduced me to Scott Samuelson. And if you are a student, and want to see Rome as Scott Samuelson sees it, why not go with him?. It's too late to do it this year, but there's always 2024...

Cultivating a Life of Learning with Zena Hitz How can we cultivate the habits and discipline required for a life of learning, especially in an age of distraction? And is such a life really worth it?Zena Hitz is a humanities scholar and author of Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life, and she joins our podcast to argue that few experiences are as formative and fulfilling as the cultivation of a rich inner life of learning and contemplation:“Virtually any intellectual activity, any piece of thinking or contemplation involves others. Even just sitting reading a book, there's an author that wrote that book and there are characters within the book that the author is sharing with you. And a lot of what I think we do and in a great books education is you encounter the minds of these authors and…even if they're long dead you see something about who they were and what they saw. So there's a human connection at the bottom of it.”Learning in Community, and the need for PerseveranceZena argues that learning is worth doing for its own sake, as something intrinsically valuable, reflective of, and fortifying to our dignity as human beings and a vital part of the good life. And when we find our energy flagging or our motives for learning to be mixed, community and perseverance are the necessary prescription for deepening and sustaining our intellectual lives.Our podcast is an edited version of an Online Conversation with Zena from September, 2022. You can access the full conversation with transcript here.Learn more about Zena Hitz.Authors and books mentioned in the conversation:Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of the Intellectual Life, by Zena HitzAugustinePlatoAristotleJonathan HaidtDavid HumeJessica Hooten WilsonRelated Trinity Forum Readings:On Happiness, by Thomas AquinasOn Friendship, by CiceroMan's Search for Meaning, by Viktor FranklAugustine's ConfessionsThe Long Loneliness, by Dorothy DayWrestling with God, by Simone WeilRelated Conversations:Strength in the Second Half with Arthur BrooksCultivating a Life of Learning with Zena HitzBeing, Living, and Dying Well with Lydia DugdaleHope, Heartbreak, and Meaning with Kate BowlerThe Burden of Living and the and the Goodness of God with Alan NobleAll the Lonely People with Ryan Streeter and Francie BroghammerTo listen to this or any of our episodes in full, visit ttf.org/podcast and to join the Trinity Forum Society and help make content like this possible, join the Trinity Forum SocietySpecial thanks to Ned Bustard for our podcast artwork.

In their final "Particular Good" episode, Charles and Heather Hughes-Huff review most all the episodes they have done over the years - from Zena Hitz and Jordan Wood, to Jason Blakely and Matt Kuhner, among many others . A huge thanks goes out to each guest who joined them to discuss particular topics and goods therein. Stay tuned this fall for more of St. Bernard's podcast!

On this episode, Zena Hitz joins Mark Bauerlein to discuss her new book, "A Philosopher Looks at the Religious Life."

In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Zena Hitz; tutor at St. John's College, author of Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life, and Co-founder and President of the Catherine Project. Listen as she discusses what it means to live the good life. Learn more about St. John's College & check out their own podcast, Continuing the Conversation

Intellectual Life In Dark Times | Zena Hitz by Angelicum Thomistic Institute

What would drive someone to renounce all their possessions, relationships, and ambitions to join a religious community? Sean talks with Zena Hitz, whose new book A Philosopher Looks at the Religious Life explores this question — drawing from her own experience. They discuss the occasionally perplexing relationship between faith and reason, why Hitz thinks the act of renunciation is the pinnacle of Christian belief, and why the radicalism at the heart of Christianity seems so absent from mainstream practice. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area Guest: Zena Hitz, (@zenahitz) author; tutor, St. John's College References:  A Philosopher Looks at the Religious Life by Zena Hitz (Cambridge; 2023) Lost In Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life by Zena Hitz (Princeton; 2020) The Madonna House in Combermere, Ontario, Canada Confessions by St. Augustine (401 AD) Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky (1866)   Enjoyed this episode? Rate The Gray Area ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of The Gray Area. Subscribe in your favorite podcast app. Support The Gray Area by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts This episode was made by:  Producer: Erikk Geannikis Engineer: Patrick Boyd Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What are the "great books"? What makes them great? Is the cultivation of an intellectual life especially important to citizens of a democratic republic? Zena Hitz, Tutor at St. John's College, joins the show to discuss all this and more! You can buy Hitz's book Lost in Thought here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/literary-studies

What are the "great books"? What makes them great? Is the cultivation of an intellectual life especially important to citizens of a democratic republic? Zena Hitz, Tutor at St. John's College, joins the show to discuss all this and more! You can buy Hitz's book Lost in Thought here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/intellectual-history

What are the "great books"? What makes them great? Is the cultivation of an intellectual life especially important to citizens of a democratic republic? Zena Hitz, Tutor at St. John's College, joins the show to discuss all this and more! You can buy Hitz's book Lost in Thought here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/education

What are the "great books"? What makes them great? Is the cultivation of an intellectual life especially important to citizens of a democratic republic? Zena Hitz, Tutor at St. John's College, joins the show to discuss all this and more! You can buy Hitz's book Lost in Thought here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is a book dead or alive? Can one be friends with a book or with the author behind the book? What are the promises and hazards of such friendships? Should we seek stability, loyalty, and reassurance of our deepest convictions and impulses? Or do real friends provide conflict, mystery, and depth, challenging and surprising us continually with new insights and contradictions? What if a friendship isn't dyadic in nature but triadic, requiring a third element to complete it—such as fine wine or a shared spiritual yearning? Are some friends more suited to lifelong friendship than others and, if so, why? In this episode, Annapolis tutor Mary Elizabeth Halper and host Zena Hitz explore the very personal relationships that humans have with books, and with the complex questions they bring up in all of us. 

Liberal education is education for freedom. What kind of freedom does it or should it cultivate?  Freedom without discipline is anarchy, and life without freedom is tyranny—or so says Annapolis tutor David Townsend, who joins host Zena Hitz in this probing conversation into the nature of freedom, the ways in which individuals and communities can cultivate it, and the need for self-discipline in tempering our freedoms. The two also discuss how a liberal education can free minds from the prejudices connatural to all human communities, and how the St. John's education strives to do just that. 

Are some books “great” in a way others are not? Can a core curriculum represent all the members of a university community? What should students get out of their classes in the Core? How should we justify liberal education today? These questions shaped many universities' curricula, including Columbia's Core, and today are at the center of debates about the purpose of education and the university.On Friday, February 3, 2023, the Morningside Institute hosted a conversation between Roosevelt Montás (Columbia) and Zena Hitz (St. John's College), moderated by Emmanuelle Saada (Columbia). Zena Hitz is a tutor at St. John's College and the author of Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life. Roosevelt Montás directed Columbia's Center for the Core Curriculum for ten years and is the author of Rescuing Socrates: How the Great Books Changed My Life and Why They Matter for a New Generation. The Morningside Institute brings scholars and students together to examine human life beyond the classroom and consider its deepest questions through the life of New York City. For more information about upcoming events, please visit https://www.morningsideinstitute.org.

Socrates is credited with saying, “the unexamined life is not worth living”. Yet, our contemporary world of results-driven work leaves us very little time for ponderance. To unearth the benefits of growing our inner worlds through examination and contemplation,Positive Psychology Podcast Host Lisa Cypers Kamen speaks with author and founder of the Catherine Project, Zena Hitz. Zena shares examples of individuals, real and imagined, who enrich themselves with life-long learning to discover the pleasures of intellectual development. She also shares key elements of her book, Lost in thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life

Socrates is credited with saying, “the unexamined life is not worth living”. Yet, our contemporary world of results-driven work leaves us very little time for ponderance.To unearth the benefits of growing our inner worlds through examination and contemplation, Harvesting Happiness Podcast Host Lisa Cypers Kamen speaks with author and founder of the Catherine Project, Zena Hitz.Zena shares examples of individuals, real and imagined, who enrich themselves with life-long learning to discover the pleasures of intellectual development. She also shares key elements of her book, Lost in thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life.To learn more, visit Harvesting Happiness Talk Radio.

We live in a world that seems to value productivity and external accomplishments over everything else. How can we shift our mindset so that we not only survive but thrive as teachers, students and human beings? Today I explore the deceptively simple insights of Zena Hitz on the true nature of genius. (Hint: think attitude not inborn trait). As a bonus I share one of my favourite websites for thought-provoking essays and articles. https://ethosenglish.com/advancedenglishpodcasts2e5/ Music is from "Strings" by Another Day under a Creative Commons license. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/ethosenglish/message

In this episode, Dr. Williams interviews Dr. Zena Hitz, a tutor at St. John's College and the author of Lost In Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life. Her book has been reviewed by Jesse Hake in the newest issue of The Principia Journal and it is the subject of this episode's discussion.

The philosopher Zena Hitz asks me five questions about myself. Zena Hitz is a Tutor at St. John's College in Annapolis, Maryland, and the author of "Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life" (2020). Kieran Setiya is a Professor of Philosophy at MIT. He is the author of “Midlife: A Philosophical Guide” (2017) and “Life is Hard: How Philosophy Can Help Us Find Our Way” (2022)—now available in bookstores!

On the season premiere of Old Books With Grace, Grace welcomes Dr. Zena Hitz, author of Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life, tutor at St. John's College, and founder of the Catherine Project. Why is it important to love learning for its own sake and not instrumentalize it? How can we cultivate an intellectual life? What does Augustine of Hippo mean by curiositas? Hear Grace and Dr. Hitz's thoughts on these questions and more...

When was the last time you learned something just out of curiosity? Not for school or to advance your career, with no end goal in sight. To learn something new just to learn it? Zena Hitz is a Tutor at St. John's College in Annapolis and the author of “Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life.” Her book explores the meaning and the value of learning through images and stories of bookworms, philosophers, scientists, and other learners, both fictional and historical. She writes and speaks on the human need to learn for its own sake and what it means for educational institutions to take that need seriously. Fun fact: she tweets at @zenahitz, where she is a frequent interlocutor with the rapper-turned-philosopher, MC Hammer.In this conversation, Zena and Greg talk about what “learning for its own sake” means, solitary learning and detaching from the world, wasting time and attention and living life on autopilot.Episode Quotes:How would you define learning for its own sake?So say I'm thinking about a mathematical theorem. I'm not doing it for work. I'm not doing it to get a grade in my class. I'm just doing it because I'm interested in it. I want to know what the answer is. Now in a way I'm working towards a goal. But in another way, what I'm doing is from the outside kind of pointless. That's an example of learning for its own sake. Real thinkingReal thinking is a way of connecting with others. It's an engagement with someone else's thoughts. Usually, at the outset, something provokes you: a conversation, a book, a theorem, an idea, an observation, and you think about it.How social class shapes religionIn our culture, religion is for working class, lower class people. And the higher you go, the less religion you have. The fewer commitments your religion requires of you. So, it's something I think about sometimes, it's the unspoken obstacle to diversity, which is supposed to be this thing that all the universities want.Show Links:Recommended Resources:The Clouds - WikipediaDorothy DayThe Room Where It HappensCitizenship in a RepublicGuest Profile:Faculty Profile at St. John's CollegeSpeaker Profile at Princeton University PressZena Hitz WebsiteZena Hitz on TwitterHer Work:Catherine Project WebsiteLost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life

In this episode I chat to Zena Hitz. Zena is currently a tutor at St John's College. She is a classicist and author of the book Lost in Thought. We have wide-ranging conversation about losing faith in academia, the dubious value of scholarship, the importance of learning, and the risks inherent in teaching. I learned a lot talking to Zena and found her perspective on the role of academics and educators to be enlightening. You can download the episode here or listen below. You can also subscribe the podcast on Apple, Spotify, Google, Amazon or whatever your preferred service might be. #mc_embed_signup{background:#fff; clear:left; font:14px Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; } /* Add your own MailChimp form style overrides in your site stylesheet or in this style block. We recommend moving this block and the preceding CSS link to the HEAD of your HTML file. */ Subscribe to the newsletter

In this episode I chat to Zena Hitz. Zena is currently a tutor at St John’s College. She is a classicist and author of the book Lost in Thought. We have wide-ranging conversation about losing faith in academia, the dubious value of scholarship, the importance of learning, and the risks inherent in teaching. I learned […]

On April 26, 2022, The Institute for Human Ecology at the Catholic University of America hosted a launch event to reveal the new design and website of Sacred and Profane Love. I am pleased to share the audio of that event as episode 50, but you can also watch a video of it here. This event, with Zena Hitz and Chad Wellmon, was titled “Are the Humanities in Crisis” and the two starting points for the conversation were two books that we have already discussed separately on the podcast: Zena's Lost in Thought and Chad's Permanent Crisis. I wrote about the first book here, the second book here, discussed the first book here, and discussed the second book here. It seems fitting that our fiftieth episode should get into the very issues that gave rise to the impetus to start the podcast in the first place, which was and remains the need to show the value of humanistic inquiry and reflection, both inside and outside of the academy. As always, I hope you enjoy our conversation. Audio edited and music produced by: Anthony Monson

On April 26, 2022, The Institute for Human Ecology at the Catholic University of America hosted a launch event to reveal the new design and website of Sacred and Profane Love. I am pleased to share the audio of that event as episode 50, but you can also watch a video of it here. This event, with Zena Hitz and Chad Wellmon, was titled “Are the Humanities in Crisis” and the two starting points for the conversation were two books that we have already discussed separately on the podcast: Zena's Lost in Thought and Chad's Permanent Crisis. I wrote about the first book here, the second book here, discussed the first book here, and discussed the second book here. It seems fitting that our fiftieth episode should get into the very issues that gave rise to the impetus to start the podcast in the first place, which was and remains the need to show the value of humanistic inquiry and reflection, both inside and outside of the academy. As always, I hope you enjoy our conversation. Audio edited and music produced by: Anthony Monson

Why We Make Music, Part 6: Peter and Susannah talk with friend of the pod Zena Hitz, author of Lost in Thought, about the state of the liberal arts, how those not in academia can continue their humanist education, and the Catherine Project, her new organization dedicated to helping people do this. What is the value of the “great books?” Why these books and not others? How do we read closely, and why is it important to do that in community? Zena, Peter and Susannah address all of these questions. Then Peter and Susannah tackle listener questions, facing #Imaginegate head-on. Other listener questions include the question of bad music: can music make you worse? Also, the importance of silence. Read the transcript. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, Zohar is joined by philosopher and classicist Zena Hitz to discuss authenticity, faith, learning for its own sake, moral fragility, Socratic irony, and how to save the humanities. Meditations with Zohar is sponsored by Cometeer, an exceptional new coffee company using cutting-edge technology to preserve and deliver specialty coffee in its purest, most original form. Use the link cometeer.com/zohar to get $20 off your first order. Read more from Zohar at his Torah newsletter Etz Hasadeh or his philosophy newsletter What is Called Thinking. Meditations with Zohar is a production of SoulShop and Lyceum Studios.

This week, Zohar is joined by philosopher and classicist Zena Hitz to discuss authenticity, faith, learning for its own sake, moral fragility, Socratic irony, and how to save the humanities. Meditations with Zohar is sponsored by Cometeer, an exceptional new coffee company using cutting-edge technology to preserve and deliver specialty coffee in its purest, most original form. Use the link cometeer.com/zohar to get $20 off your first order. Read more from Zohar at his Torah newsletter Etz Hasadeh or his philosophy newsletter What is Called Thinking. Meditations with Zohar is a production of SoulShop and Lyceum Studios.

This month we are pleased to bring you a special episode that departs from our normal path. For the past several months, we've been looking at forgotten or neglected books and essays on liberal education. We're very excited to bring you this conversation with three authors who've all written recently published books on liberal education. We have Zena Hitz, author of LOST IN THOUGHT: THE HIDDEN PLEASURES OF AN INTELLECTUAL LIFE; Jonathan Marks, author of LET'S BE REASONABLE: A CONSERVATIVE CASE FOR LIBERAL EDUCATION; and Roosevelt Montás, author of RESCUING SOCRATES: HOW THE GREAT BOOKS CHANGED MY LIFE AND WHY THEY MATTER FOR A NEW GENERATION. All three books provide a defense of liberal education rooted in the great books, but they do so in strikingly different ways. We discuss desire, shame, and the how the encounter with great authors can shape your soul. Each author talks about the importance and difficulties of the teacher-student relationship. And we discuss the various threats and challenges to liberal education today. Zena Hitz is a Tutor at St. John's College and the founder of the Catherine Project. Jonathan Marks in Professor of Politics and chair of the Department of Politics and International Relations at Ursinus College. Roosevelt Montás is Senior Lecturer in American Studies and English at Columbia University. He is the Director of the American Studies' Freedom and Citizenship Program. Here are some links to reviews: Zena on Jonathan Jonathan on Zena Jonathan on Roosevelt Roosevelt on Zena Flagg on Zena

This is the central theme of a new book Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of Intellectual Life published by Princeton University Press in 2021. Its author, Dr. Zena Hitz is a philosopher and tutor at St. John's College in Annapolis, Maryland. She has an unusual prescription for our everyday woes. In her book, Dr. Hitz says we can enrich our lives by accessing the less-known joys of learning for its own sake. She argues that intellectual pursuits untrammeled by mundane considerations can help us reclaim our dignity, attain communion with fellow human beings, and find meaning in our lives.

I talk with philosopher and writer Zena Hitz about the importance of learning for its own sake in this third episode in a series on How To Live,

This lecture was given at University of California, Berkeley on November 16, 2021. For more events and info visit thomisticinstitute.org/events-1. Zena Hitz is a Tutor at St. John's College where she teaches across the liberal arts. She is interested in defending intellectual activity for its own sake, as against its use for economic or political goals. Her forthcoming book, Intellectual Life, is rooted in essays that have appeared in First Things, Modern Age, and The Washington Post. Her scholarly work has focused on the political thought of Plato and Aristotle, especially the question of how law cultivates or fails to cultivate human excellence. She received an MPhil in Classics from Cambridge and studied Social Thought and Philosophy at the University of Chicago before finishing her PhD in Philosophy at Princeton.

In his 1987 bestseller, The Closing of the American Mind, Allan Bloom explores how abandoning a Classical education in favor of political correctness leads to indoctrination over independent thinking.  Anya Leonard sees a further erosion of the American mind today, where social media is driving us further and further into isolated silos. Where independent thought and the exchange of ideas is frowned upon. And under pressure from the ‘woke mob,' universities are eliminating their Classics departments.  So, what can we do to combat this demolition of the American mind? How can studying history and the Classics reverse this dangerous trend?  Anya is the Founder of Classical Wisdom, a platform dedicated to preserving Classical ideas. She earned an MA in Sociology from the University of Edinburgh and studied at St. John's College with a double major in Philosophy and the History of Math and Science. On this episode of The Wiggin Sessions, Anya joins me to share her experience in the Great Books Program at St. John's and explain how we might distill the wisdom of the Classics to take inspired action now. Anya explains her decision to travel the globe with her daughter Freida and challenges us to expand our view of the Classics, offering insight around the ancient world as a huge and diverse place. Listen in for Anya's take on the parallels between Mao's China and America today—and learn to leverage the Classics to ‘vaccinate' yourself against the demolition of the American mind. Key Takeaways   How Anya defines the Classics and her experience in the Great Books Program at St. John's What's important about the Classics and what we can learn from studying the Western cannon Anya and her husband's decision to travel the globe with their daughter Freida What inspired Anya's essays around her idea of the demolition of the American mind How social media impacts our brains and drives us into isolated silos How we might distill the wisdom carried in history and stories to take inspired action now Anya's explanation of stoicism and how we can apply its principles in modern life The guest lecturers Anya is featuring on Classical Wisdom, e.g.: Zena Hitz and Anika Prather Anya's insight around the ancient world as a huge and diverse place Anya's passion for preserving Classical ideas (and the resources she provides to that end) Connect with Anya Leonard Demolition of the American Mind  Classical Wisdom Classical Wisdom Speaks Connect with Addison Wiggin Consilience Financial Be sure to follow The Wiggin Sessions on your socials. You can find me on— Facebook @thewigginsessions Instagram @thewigginsessions Twitter @WigginSessions Resources  5-Minute Forecast  Anya Leonard on The Wiggin Sessions EP006  The Closing of the America Mind: How Higher Education Has Failed Democracy and Impoverished the Souls of Today's Students by Allan Bloom Emily Wilson's Translation of The Odyssey  Dan Denning, Anya Leonard and Joel Bowman on The Wiggin Sessions EP013 Kathleen Stock Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of ‘Brainwashing' in China by Robert Jay Lifton Jeffrey A. Tucker at the Brownstone Institute  Anthony A. Long William B. Irvine Donald Robertson  Zeno of Citium Meditations by Marcus Aurelius  Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life by Zena Hitz Dr. Anika T. Prather The Dying Citizen: How Progressive Elites, Tribalism and Globalization Are Destroying the Idea of America by Victor Davis Hanson Niall Ferguson James Hankins Angie Hobbs Empire of Debt: The Rise of an Epic Financial Crisis by Will Bonner and Addison Wiggin The Essential Classics Classical Wisdom Society Litterae Magazine

This week we're talking with, Zena Hitz, a tutor at St. John's College and author of “Lost in Thought”. We'll be talking about the state of education and get her thoughts on learning for the sake of learning. This week's action item: Continue to keep respect life issues at the forefront beyond October. Register for a Nov. 18th webinar discussing assisted suicide and the loss of dignity in secularized health care. Links mentioned in the podcast: Webinar: www.ethicalcaremn.org/webinars Catherine Project: www.catherineproject.org Zena's website: www.zenahitz.net

What is thinking? What isn't? When does technology move from aiding to impeding human flourishing? How can limitations help us live better? Zena Hitz joins David McDonald to consider these questions and many more. Also discussed are higher education, tragedy and comedy, Don Quixote, depth and longing, the complexities of technological progress, and the influence of upbringing. Links: Zena Hitz, Lost in Thought Matthew Crawford, “Shop Class as Soul Craft” Gerard Manley Hopkins, “Spring and Fall” We welcome your feedback and questions at booksandabalance@sjc.edu.

In this episode, Erik Rostad discusses books 30 & 31 from his 2021 Reading List – Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life by Zena Hitz and The Second Mountain: The Quest for a Moral Life by David Brooks. Show Notes Author: Zena Hitz Author: David Brooks Support the Podcast! Buy me a Book... The post The Intellectual & Moral Life appeared first on Books of Titans.

Dr Zena Hitz (St John's College, Annapolis) “The Spontaneity of the Mind and the Desire to Learn” part of the 2021 Aquinas Seminar Series on the theme De Magistro: Aquinas and the Education of the Whole Person, exploring what Aquinas offers towards a philosophy and praxis of education, bringing him into con­versation with other thinkers and with movements towards educating the whole person.

This lecture was delivered via Zoom for the Cornell University chapter on 5/17/2021. For more information on upcoming events, please visit our website at www.thomisticinstitute.org. About the speaker: Zena Hitz is a Tutor at St. John's College where she teaches across the liberal arts. She is interested in defending intellectual activity for its own sake, as against its use for economic or political goals. Her forthcoming book, Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life, is rooted in essays that have appeared in First Things, Modern Age, and The Washington Post. Her scholarly work has focused on the political thought of Plato and Aristotle, especially the question of how law cultivates or fails to cultivate human excellence. She received an MPhil in Classics from Cambridge and studied Social Thought and Philosophy at the University of Chicago before finishing her PhD in Philosophy at Princeton.

A conversation with Zena Hitz, author of "Lost in Thought: the Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life."

Can we understand the Classics without the Classroom? A guide to getting (really) educated… with Dr. James Hankins, Professor of History at Harvard University, Anya Leonard of Classical Wisdom, and Alexandra Hudson of Civic Renaissance. If you already know WHY we should preserve the classics... It's time to ask HOW... and how YOU can help. What are the resources? Where can we begin? And who can help? As mainstream educational institutions move away from a classical core in the liberal arts, it can be tempting to feel despondent about the future of this educational model that has educated men and women for millennia. Yet there are a growing number of organizations around the world committed to remedy this. These non-accrediting institutions are nourishing those who care about ideas and the wisdom of the past and are offering people a chance to engage in the Great Conversation.What can we learn from these initiatives? How can we promote more of them? How can these new organizations nurture the values of curiosity and lifelong learning?About the Speakers: Dr. James Hankins, professor of History at Harvard University and an intellectual historian specializing in the Italian Renaissance. He is author of many books, including, Virtue Politics: Soulcraft and Statecraft. You can purchase his book here.Anya Leonard, Founder and Director of Classical Wisdom, a platform dedicated to bringing ancient wisdom to Modern Minds. You can learn more about Classical Wisdom here.Alexandra Hudson, curator of Civic Renaissance, a publication and intellectual community dedicated to the wisdom of the past. Sign up for Civic Renaissance here.ResourcesPodcasts: Classical Wisdom Speaks Ancient Greece DeclassifiedHellenistic Age PodcastThe Partially Examined Life PodcastCommunity/E-learning:Ralston CollegeClassical Pursuits (travel with the classics)Modern StoicismArticles:"The Forgotten Virtue" explores the classical notion of humanitas, or love of humanity, that the ancients cultivated through education and the Renaissance Humanists revived in their own era.  "What are the classics for?" By Alexandra Hudson. This essay explores recent criticisms of the classics and looks at what an omnicultural core might look like today.Books: "A Great Idea at the Time" by Alex Beam"Know Thyself" by Ingrid Rossellini"How to live on 24 Hours a day" by Arnold Bennett"Virtue Politics" by James Hankins. "Lost in Thought" by Zena Hitz. 

Dr. Zena Hitz is a tutor at St. John’s College and the author of an inspirational book called Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life. Dr. Hitz encourages us in our pursuits to live as “everyday intellectuals,” even if we don’t recognize that that’s what we’re doing when we study birds, or go star gazing, or participate in a book club. We also discuss the importance of the virtue of “seriousness” and the relationship between intellectual pursuits and the call to care for one’s neighbors. You can purchase her book here: https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691178714/lost-in-thought ********* Free video series: The Person: Action and Influence: https://www.catholicfaithandculture.udallas.edu/landing-the-person-action-influence Liberal Learning for Life @ University of Dallas: udallas.edu/liberal-learning/​ Twitter: twitter.com/lib_learning_ud​ Instagram: www.instagram.com/liberallearningforlife/ Facebook: www.facebook.com/liberallearningforlife

How can we Truly be lost in thought? What does the love of learning look like... can it be corrupted? And how can we find the time for leisure? This week’s episode is with Dr. Zena Hitz, Tutor at St. John's College in Annapolis, MD and Winner of the Hiett Prize in the Humanities, The Dallas Institute. Zena is also the author of Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life. We discuss how we can find leisure, why it's important, and the fantastic story behind MC Hammer and Zena’s friendship. You can purchase Zena’s book Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life Here.For more information about Classical Wisdom's Podcast Classical Wisdom Speaks, please check out our website at: http://classicalwisdom.com

Charles talks with Zena Hitz about her beautiful book Lost in Thought: The Hidden Treasures of an Intellectual Life. They cover why and how she chose her vivid examples of particular goods of the intellectual life, the importance of treating the intellect as an end to itself rather than instrumentalizing it for prestige or politics, the role of withdrawal—forced or free, physical or internal—MC Hammer's love of the philosophy of science and Zena's book, and the integration of intellectual life within Christianity.

We live in a culture that teaches that if you're not pursuing some practical end — say, wealth, a career, social advancement, physical fitness — you're wasting your time. So it's unsurprising that so many of us end up feeling horribly empty, caught in an infinite loop of winning money, power and friends…so that we can win more money, power and friends. How often do we stop and ask ourselves: what has ultimate meaning in life? What are we doing during our short time on this earth that we can be truly proud of? This week, Rabbi Lamm speaks to Zena Hitz of St. John's College — author of “Lost In Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of An Intellectual Life”, to talk about how to cultivate a love of learning; what differentiates Greek and Hebrew civilization; why “leisure” time is so crucial; whether we owe Shakespeare our attention; and whether your average person should see learning as an “obligation.”

A discussion with Professor Zena Hitz (St. John's College), moderated by Professor Jared Ortiz (Hope College). Originally broadcast as a live online event November 10, 2020. In a world where efficiency and utility are the standards by which we measure success, how do we appreciate what resists quantification? And at a moment of institutional change and instability for higher education, what do we hold onto? In her new book, Lost in Thought, Zena Hitz lays out the case for the inner life as a good in itself. Today, when even the humanities are often defended only for their economic or political usefulness, Hitz says our intellectual lives are valuable not despite but because of their practical uselessness. Within or without institutional structures, the intellectual life offers a source of meaning and fulfillment. In this webinar conversation with Jared Ortiz, Hitz will elucidate the hidden pleasures of contemplation, assess the possibilities for its re-emergence in the contemporary university, and debate whether figures as dissimilar as the Virgin Mary, Albert Einstein, and Malcom X can be said to participate in a common intellectual activity.

You can listen to the newsletter by clicking the play button above or you can click the “Listen in Podcast app” link and follow the directions to open this feed in your podcast app. Currently, you may find the feed on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, and Spotify.In our “Readings in the Christian Imagination,” reading group this past Monday, we had the pleasure of hosting Zena Hitz for a time of discussion centered on her recent book, Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life. In today's podcast, you can listen to that event. During the first part of the hour, Mike Sacasas interviewed Prof. Hitz about her book, and during the latter part of the hour she fielded questions from other members of the group. In our next session (Monday, October 12th, 8: 00 PM), the group will continue to reflect on the life of the mind by reading and discussing “Reflections on the Right Use of School Studies with a View to the Love of God,” by the 20th century French thinker, Simone Weil. Please contact Mike Sacasas (mike@christianstudycenter.org) if you are interested in joining. Study Center ResourcesThis week our director's classes continue. If you're subscribed to this newsletter, you've been seeing our posts with the recordings of both classes. Our Wednesday Dante reading group continues making its way through Purgatorio as well. If you are interested in joining any of these offerings, contact Mike Sacasas. Recommended Reading— From Gracy Olmstead's newsletter, drawing on the work of John Sommerville, a retired UF professor and dear friend of the study center:Journalists can do their part here by refusing to write “hot takes,” and seeking to offer readers better researched, more thoughtful news stories and op-eds. Reading biographies and histories, books of essays and longer analyses can also help us to “remember” better as we read.Sommerville, for his part, suggests putting news “in its place” by reading it monthly, rather than daily. This would be hard to do in some seasons, but the idea of prolonging the time between news readings suggests that we could perhaps skip some of the unnecessary or repetitive content in order to develop a more storied, context-filled understanding of what's currently taking place. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit christianstudycenter.substack.com

You can listen to the newsletter by clicking the play button above or you can click the “Listen in Podcast app” link and follow the directions to open this feed in your podcast app. Currently, you may find the feed on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, and Spotify.In 1943, Simone Weil, the French philosopher and activist who was living in England at the time, was tasked by the Free French government with writing a report exploring how French society might be revitalized after its liberation from Nazi Germany. Despite suffering from debilitating headaches and generally poor health, Weil completed her work during a remarkable burst of activity. She died later that year at the age of 34. The report was published in 1949. The first English translation appeared in 1952 as The Need for Roots: prelude towards a declaration of duties towards mankind. I was immediately struck by how Weil began her report. In the midst of a global cataclysm of unprecedented scope and scale, tasked with drawing up plans for the renewal of society, she begins by arguing for the primacy of human obligations rather than human rights. The very first sentence reads: “The notion of obligations comes before that of rights, which is subordinate and relative to the former.” Quite the claim coming from a French thinker, as she is well aware. As Weil sees it, rights are ineffective so long as no one recognizes a corresponding obligation, and obligations are always grounded in our common humanity. “Duty toward the human being as such—that alone is eternal,” she writes. Our obligations toward our fellow human beings, Weil goes on to argue, “correspond to the list of such human needs as are vital, analogous to hunger.” Some of these needs are physical, of course—housing, clothing, security, etc.—but Weil identified another set of needs, which she described as having to do not with the “physical side” of life but with what she calls life's “moral side.” The non-physical needs “form … a necessary condition of our life on this earth.” In her view, if these needs are not satisfied, “we fall little by little into a state more or less resembling death.” And while she acknowledges that these needs are “much more difficult to recognize and to enumerate than are the needs of the body,” she believes “every one recognizes they exist.”I'm inclined to believe that Weil is right about this. As she suggests, “everyone knows that there are forms of cruelty which can injure a man's life without injuring his body.” Weil goes on to call for an investigation into what these vital needs might be. They should be enumerated and defined, and she warns that “they must never be confused with desires, whims, fancies and vices.” Finally, she believes that “the lack of any such investigation forces governments, even when their intentions are honest, to act sporadically and at random.” Naturally, the rest of the work is an attempt to provide just such an enumeration and discussion of these vital needs with the express purpose of supplying a foundation for the rebuilding of French society. She deals briefly with a set of fourteen such needs before turning to a longer discussion of “rootedness” and “uprootedness,” a discussion which opens with this well-known claim: “To be rooted is perhaps the most important and least recognized need of the human soul.” It is useful to pair this claim with Hannah Arendt's discussion of loneliness, alienation, and superfluousness, which, in The Origins of Totalitarianism, she identifies as ideal conditions for the emergence of totalitarian regimes. “Under the most diverse conditions and disparate circumstances,” Arendt wrote, “we watch the development of the same phenomena—homelessness on an unprecedented scale, rootlessness to an unprecedented depth.” Combining Weil and Arendt, then, we might say that to the degree that the need for rootedness—which is to say, a sense of belonging in relatively stable communities—goes unfulfilled, to that same degree human beings become vulnerable to destructive political regimes. My aim here, however, is not to discuss the merits of Weil's particular enumeration of these vital needs nor to elaborate on Arendt's argument. Rather, it is simply to recommend that we, too, undertake a similar radical analysis along the lines Weil proposed, recalling, of course, that our word radical comes to us from radix, the Latin word for roots. In other words, as we examine the multiple ills that beset our society, it may be that by returning to a fundamental consideration of human needs we may find the resources that lead to cultural renewal. Presently, we are focused on formal injustices that manifest themselves in key institutions. This work is always crucial, but its essentially critical nature may prove inadequate to the task of building a good society. To borrow a set of distinctions made by the philosopher Albert Borgmann, we may achieve a formally just society and still not have a good society. In other words, it may be possible in theory to eliminate political and economic inequalities without also providing for genuine human flourishing. Moreover, Borgmann argued that without a vision for a good society, even formal justice may prove unachievable. In his last essay for this newsletter, Dr. Horner wrote about the inadequacies of a posthumanist framing of our cultural disorders, one which accounts only for our differences without also recognizing our shared humanity or providing a vision for what a society ordered toward the common good might look like. He challenged his Christian readers, especially, to recover a distinctly Christian humanism as a foundation for our pursuit of justice. As Dr. Horner reminded us, the posthumanist framing of our experience emerged out of the distinctly modern understanding of the human being, one which ruled out any normative account of human nature or human purpose. And as Alasdair MacIntyre, among others, has pointed out, the loss of a model of human flourishing undermined all efforts to formulate a new moral theory to replace traditional models of the ethical life.Clearly this posthumanist framing poses a serious challenge to any effort to imagine a good society ordered toward virtue and human flourishing. But perhaps Weil's project offers us a way forward, a renewed humanism premised not merely upon human exceptionalism and self-sufficiency but rather upon human needs, interdependence, and mutual obligations. Indeed, it recalls MacIntyre's own efforts to reground an account of human nature not merely upon our capacity for reason, as was typical of the classical tradition, but also upon upon our fundamentally dependent status as human creatures. We are, as the title of a 1999 work puts it, “dependent rational animals.” The mere acknowledgement of our dependent status and a renewed attention to what constitutes genuine human needs, the satisfaction of which can serve as the foundation of a good society, will hardly heal all our rifts. And a determination of how exactly our dependence is manifested and what are, in fact, genuine needs will itself be a source of debate and contention. But it may prove a more productive starting point than those which currently frame our public discourse. Over the coming weeks, this newsletter will feature a series of reflections exploring both the nature and conditions of human flourishing as well as the forces that undermine such flourishing. We hope these reflections will prove helpful to those seeking a thoughtful and faithful way to address the myriad of problems that now confront us. Michael SacasasAssociate DirectorStudy Center ResourcesThis week, we especially want to draw your attention to our Zoom reading group on Tuesday, September 29th, at 8:00 p.m. We will be joined by Dr. Zena Hitz, the author of Lost In Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life. Dr. Hitz will discuss her work with Mike Sacasas during the first part of the evening and then field questions from participants. Please feel free to join in even if you have not read Lost In Thought. Use this link to join the Zoom session.The rest of our program enters its third full week with our Director's classes meeting via Zoom and in-person and our Dante group meeting via Zoom on Wednesday afternoons. If you have any questions about taking part in these events, please email Mike Sacasas at mike4416@gmail.com.Recommended Reading— In “The Supply of Disinformation Will Soon Be Infinite,” Renée DiResta, technical research manager at the Stanford Internet Observatory, examines the challenges posed by GPT-3, a program that is capable of churning out meaningful text:The letters in GPT-3 stand for “generative pre-trained transformer.” It works by taking text input  and predicting what comes next. The model was trained on several massive data sets, including Wikipedia and Common Crawl (a nonprofit dedicated to “providing a copy of the internet to internet researchers”). In generating text, GPT-3 may return facts or drop the names of relevant public figures. It can produce computer code, poems, journalistic-sounding articles that reference the real world, tweets in the style of a particular account, or long theoretical essays on par with what a middling freshman philosophy student might write.— Alan Jacobs reflects on the value of plurality (as opposed to pluralism):In a recent conversation with Cherie Harder of the Trinity Forum, I recommended what I called — then half-jokingly, and now that I think about it more seriously — the Gandalf Option. I take that phrase from something Galdalf says to Denethor, the Steward of Gondor, who believes that Gandalf is plotting to rule that kingdom:“The rule of no realm is mine, neither of Gondor nor any other, great or small. But all worthy things that are in peril as the world now stands, those are my care. And for my part, I shall not wholly fail of my task, though Gondor should perish, if anything passes through this night that can still grow fair or bear fruit and flower again in days to come. For I also am a steward. Did you not know?” This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit christianstudycenter.substack.com

Have you ever wanted to memorize Scripture but just didn't think you could do it? Join me as I share my story of how Scripture memory has benefited me and then talk to my friend Jennifer Beck about how God has used that discipline in her life. God's word truly is powerful and will change your life. Books and resources mentioned in this episode include: All That's Good by Hannah Anderson; Lost in Thought by Zena Hitz; Revive Our Hearts ministry with Nancy DeMoss Wolgemuth (reviveourhearts.com); His Word in My Heart by Janet Pope; Remember Me Bible Memory app; YouVersion Bible app; READ MY BLOG @ www.dayofsmallwonders.wordpress.com. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/meredith43/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/meredith43/support

You can listen to the newsletter by clicking the play button above or you can click the “Listen in Podcast app” link and follow the directions to open this feed in your podcast app. Currently, you may find the feed on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, and Spotify.Before I start to address an issue that has been much on my mind – and on yours, I want to thank Lauren Babb and Mike Sacasas for their faithful service to the Study Center and to the entire community in my absence. I especially want to thank them for leading the way in thinking about the challenges that have been on all our hearts and minds in recent weeks. I have been deeply appreciative of both Lauren's statement on behalf of Pascal's several weeks ago, and Mike's constant, wise voice in recent newsletters. Part of what has been so hard about being gone for most of the past two months is that I feel like I abandoned these friends in a time of need and that I especially left Mike to bear the weight of being the voice of the center through very difficult times. It was hard for me to leave that burden on “the new guy.” But I am also so very thankful to have been able to lean on him as I have.Thank you, Lauren. Thank you, Mike.As Mike noted a few weeks ago, “As this year has unfolded, we have been confronted by one crisis after another with barely a chance to catch our breath.” And as he went on to say, “A crisis can simultaneously call for thinking and make it difficult to think.” This has been especially true given the fact that these crises and our responses are playing out on what we call “news” media and on social media platforms. Mike is very insightful in exposing the reductive and counterproductive impact that these social technologies often have, and I want very much to return to some of these issues in weeks to come, but at present, I want to push past these issues and move on to the issue that has been much on my mind and heart not only in recent weeks but for over five decades. That is the issue of race in our country—the inequities, unfairness, injustice, misunderstandings, distance, and more that fall along racial lines. There are numerous lines of racial and ethnic diversity in our country today, and numerous stories that need to be told for everyone from native Americans to immigrants who continue to come to our country from a wide variety of nations. Sadly, these stories typically include hard issues. There are stories of inequities and unfairness in every direction. I will confess, however, that for me personally the question of how a light-skinned race, of European origin, has treated a dark-skinned race, of African origin, over nearly four centuries of our country's history has always been a central concern. I trust I care about all people and that I act on behalf of minorities and the underserved or disadvantaged of any race or ethnicity, but black/white relations have played a crucial role in the American story from the beginning and have always been of particular importance to me personally. Just to be clear, I am a sixty-eight-year old white male. I was not born yesterday, so I did not just get “woke” in the past several months. I do fear and fight my sad tendency to “doze off,” but I first got woke back in middle school. I am old enough to remember water fountains and restrooms in stores in Lakeland, Florida, marked “colored” and “white.” I remember the infuriating way that white Christians pronounced the word “negro,” and while I did not throw stones through windows, nor did I think it was ultimately the best way forward, I remember being pretty sympathetic with those who did. I also recall quite vividly numerous eye-opening experiences that came with what was called “forced integration.” In my case, it occurred during my high school days, and I have always been thankful that it did. Virtually everyone complained about it, but it was a good thing and had good consequences for many of us. These experiences played a tremendous role in awakening me, educating me, and motivating me to participate actively in seeking to see integration be the good thing that many of us knew it to be, even as we – white and black – struggled with what we didn't like about it. Partly because these issues mean what they do to me, I chose not to jump when social media said “jump” two months ago, but please do not interpret my choice not to participate in the social media frenzy as some indifference on my part. To the contrary, it is because I see these issues as the sort of important, enduring human issues that they are that I have waited before addressing the issue explicitly. Thank you, then, for allowing me to share a couple simple lessons that have been formative for me and that continue to serve me as I seek the sort of healing to which I pointed a month ago. I offer these thoughts quite meekly and with no pretense about having gotten something right, but only in the hope of being helpful as we seek to engage important issues together.  The bedrock for my own thinking about racial and ethnic injustice and inequity lies in the rich Humanism that Scripture teaches. Using the word “Humanism” here may puzzle you, but it is exactly the right word, and it is desperately needed today. I was raised on a biblical understanding of human beings by parents who loved God and therefore loved their neighbors—all their neighbors. I won't pretend that I grew up in a racially mixed neighborhood, school, or church, but I grew up with a concern for all people—for Jew and Gentile, for people of every race and ethnicity, for Kenyans, Peruvians, and Indians. Because we were Christians, respect and love for all people was a given. Humans are made in the image of God – all humans, and “God so loved the world that he gave his only Son.” This was all we needed to know. This is what I mean by biblical Humanism, and it laid the foundation for my life both through my parents' teaching and through their example. A second, important contribution to my own thinking about race came by studying history. It has taken many forms over the years, but it began with my Social Studies teacher in high school – a white man who grew up in the rural South. He was perfect for the job. He had learned the history, and it had changed him. He was perfect for teaching a bunch of naïve, mostly white kids. He shared honestly, stayed vulnerable, spoke boldly, and helped us learn the history of our country and face the sad and often horrifying story of how one race of humans came to think of another race of humans not simply as inferior but as property that could be bought, sold, and enslaved. He helped us confront the inhumanity of our own history and recognize that we had dug a hole so deep that we were and are still very much working our way out of it and will be for a long time. A society does not recover from such a history easily or quickly.All of us would do well to keep studying history, and as we study the history of our own country, we would be wise to study well beyond our own borders. The stories of human beings mistreating other human beings across a variety of lines of difference are many, and they are global. There is something about us that is sadly bent, and we do well to recognize it as the deeply human tendency that it is. Our prejudices run deep, and this is just one of many reasons why it is so important that our efforts be rooted in a biblical Humanism and framed ultimately by Jesus' declaration that the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.The third great contribution to my thinking about race has come through relationships that cross racial and ethnic lines of difference. As simple as this is, it has made all the difference. I am convinced that the single most important social contribution to making progress where racial inequity, unfairness, injustice, animosity, and misunderstanding are involved is for us to be in life together—simply to have meaningful relationships that cross racial divides. This was why “forced integration” was a good thing. No matter how much everyone complained, it at least opened up the possibility for us to get beyond caricatures and get to know each other as actual human beings. With that experience came knowledge, with that knowledge came changed attitudes, and with changed attitudes came meaningful action. One thing led to another—not because someone condemned me on social media and demanded that I say the right thing, but because I got the chance to interact with fellow human beings from which my history had separated me. It gave me the chance, for instance, to get to know my friend Willie well enough for him, in turn, to trust me well enough to give him a ride home after band practice. With that experience came knowledge—knowledge, among other things, of the fact that there were unpaved streets and small frame shacks not far from my own home; and knowledge, in turn, changed my attitude and motivated me to action – to a commitment to see integration work, to address hard issues, to keep listening and learning, to speak up. Without going into any deep analysis, I fear that a re-segregation has taken place over the past few decades, and it has hurt us all. We are all the poorer for it. I am convinced that racial and ethnic integration remains key, and when we are blessed with it, we do well to celebrate it and be thankful.I recognize that in offering just a small glimpse into my own story, I am not offering anything profound, but I offer it nonetheless – especially to my young friends who find themselves caught in the world as they encounter it on their cell phones and laptops. That is an especially difficult place to live these days, but all the more reason to be well founded in biblical wisdom; informed by historians, sociologists, and others; and committed to cultivating relationships across lines of racial difference – and across other lines of difference as well. I trust you know that I offer these thoughts haltingly and humbly in the hope of the gospel and of healing for all.Dr. Richard HornerExecutive DirectorStudy Center ResourcesThis coming week we will be discussing the last section of the Inferno. The Dante reading group will pause during the month of August, but will resume with Purgatorio in September. This would be a great time to jump in if you weren't able to join us for our reading of the Inferno. Contact Mike Sacasas at mike@christianstudycenter.org, if you'd like to be on the email list for the reading group. Come September, we will also be kicking off our fall program. We'll be featuring two Director's Classes, an additional online reading group alongside the Dante group, and more. Stay tuned for more details in the coming weeks.Be sure to check out the archive of resources available online from the study center. Classes and lectures are available at our audio archive. You can also peruse back issues of Reconsiderations here.Recommended Reading— Philosopher Jennifer Frey reviews Zena Hitz's recent book, Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life. We will be reading Lost in Thought this fall at the Study Center and look forward to hosting an online interview and Q/A with Prof. Hitz.Hitz notes that what is intrinsically valuable for a human being is grounded in what a human being is—what it needs in order to flourish as a member of its kind. Even more boldly, Hitz frames her argument in terms of ancient Greek thought about the highest good. Such a good was understood by Plato and Aristotle as that sort of human activity we have a natural affinity for above all others and would be something “in which one's whole life would culminate.” For Hitz, the highest good structures all of our choices and reveals something about the sort of person we are. It is the good for which, at the end of the day, we will sacrifice all else.— Michael Wear offers his theologically informed reflections on “a politics worse than death”:Our political problem is not simply a function of those who haven't thought about their own death, but of those who aren't motivated by the death of others. Our political problem is that we have a system that requires tremendous energy to be heard, and a citizenry that cannot find the energy, resources, and will to be heard. At some point, we must question the conventional wisdom that the stratification and sophistication of media, including social media, has been a neutral democratizing force, and instead ask whether it has empowered and incentivized unrepresentative voices at the cost of a representative politics. We should ask the question now, while we still can, before we become so limited by the extremes in our politics that we can't imagine there are any other options. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit christianstudycenter.substack.com

Michial Farmer interviews Zena Hitz about her recent book "Lost in Thought."

Author & St. John's College tutor Zena Hitz joins the show to talk about her wonderful new book, Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life (Princeton University Press). We get into the nature of learning for its own sake, the corruption of academia and its potential reform, how St. John's prepared us for the world by not preparing us, and why the Newton's Principia is the toughest thing on the SJC curriculum. We also talk about the joy of autodidacts and our shared love of The Peregrine, why she disagrees with the notion that learning-for-its-own-sake is a privilege of the elite, the challenges of leading seminars by Zoom, and how bureaucracy creeps into every system. We also tackle my lightning round of questions for SJC tutors, what she'd add to the curriculum and what she'd subtract, and answer the long-standing question: What is virtue and can it be taught? Follow Zena on Twitter • More info at our site • Support The Virtual Memories Show via Patreon or Paypal

Do you have an active intellectual life? That is a question you may feel uncomfortable answering these days given that the very phrase “intellectual life” can strike some people as pretentious or self-indulgent, even irresponsible in a time of pandemic disease. But what better time could there be for an examination of the subject of the inner life? And what is “the intellectual life,” anyway? In her 2020 book, Lost in Thought: The Hidden Pleasures of an Intellectual Life (Princeton University Press, 2020), Zena Hitz explores the interior world and shows that intellectual endeavor is not simply a matter of reading by oneself but can encompass everything from a lifelong fascination with falcons to strategies for retaining one's sanity and humanity in a gulag or producing ground-breaking political and sociological writings in a prison cell in Mussolini's Italy. In the course of her book, Hitz deploys real-world examples from young Einstein in his day job in a Swiss patent office to Malcolm X's encounter with the fellow prison inmate who first urged him to embark on a life-changing course of reading to Dorothy Day's encounters with books throughout her life and their influence on her youthful secular radicalism to her conversion to Catholicism and continued activism. We also encounter St. Augustine and take a deep dive into Elena Ferrante's Neapolitan Novels and travel with a Preston Sturges hero in a screwball comedy/social commentary film. Hitz's reader-friendly examination of the intellectual life is ideal reading for the millions of us confined to our homes due to the coronavirus and who now have time to read and think seriously about matters of mortality and the meaning of life, which are suddenly front and center in our daily lives. And at a time of pandemic-related economic peril for liberal arts colleges and programs, Hitz's take on what ailed them even before our current crisis and her prescription for a way forward for those that survive the next several years are must reading for not only academics but all citizens who care about how civilization itself carries on. Give a listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/psychology

I ask the philosopher Zena Hitz five questions about herself. Zena Hitz is a Tutor at St. John's College, Annapolis. Her new book, "Lost in Thought," is about the pleasures of intellectual life.

John J. Miller is joined by Zena Hitz of St. John's College to discuss Gustave Flaubert's 'Madame Bovary.'

John J. Miller is joined by Zena Hitz of St. John's College to discuss Aristophanes's 'The Clouds.'