Podcasts about Getting to Yes

Welcome back to Your World of Creativity, where we travel the globe talking with creative professionals who turn ideas into impact.In recent episodes, we've explored creativity through design, dance, music, and innovation—how ideas come to life across disciplines.Today, we're taking that conversation inside the organization. Because creativity isn't just about what you make—it's about how you lead, how you adapt, and how you bring people with you.We're focusing on what it really means to perform at your very best, especially during moments of transition, uncertainty, and transformation.Our guest is Stephen Frenkel, a coach and consultant with more than 25 years of experience in leadership development, team optimization, conflict resolution, and change management. He brings a systems-thinking approach to help organizations clarify where they're going, what's getting in the way, and how to move forward with purpose.Stephen is also a contributing author to Lives Lost and Leadership Found, a powerful collection exploring how grief and loss shape leadership.Stephen's Websitehttps://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-frenkel-voyager/1. Defining “At Their Very Best”Stephen, you help leaders and teams “be their very best.” That's a powerful phrase—but it can mean different things to different people.How do you help leaders define what “their very best” actually looks like—and why is that clarity so critical before any real progress can happen?2. What Gets in the Way Once that vision is clear, the next step is identifying what's getting in the way.From your experience, what are the most common obstacles—whether at the individual, team, or organizational level—that prevent people from performing at their best?And how do you begin to surface those issues in a way that people are willing to address?3. Systems Thinking + Team Performance You take a systems-thinking approach, which I find really compelling.How does looking at the whole system—instead of just individuals or isolated problems—change the way leaders approach team effectiveness, culture, and performance?Can you share an example where that shift in perspective made a meaningful difference?4. Conflict, Change, and Creative Tension You've spent a lot of your career working in conflict resolution and change management.Many leaders try to avoid conflict—but I suspect you see it differently.How can leaders reframe conflict as something productive—or even creative—and what are some practical ways to navigate tension during periods of change? Stephen says he often refers to the book, Getting To Yes by Roger Fisher and William L. Ury.https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Yes-Negotiating-Agreement-Without/dp/01431187575. Leadership, Loss, and Perspective You contributed to a recent book, Lives Lost and Leadership Found, where leaders reflect on how loss shapes their leadership.What inspired you to share your story—and what did that process unlock for you, personally or professionally?And how has that experience influenced how you show up today as a coach, advisor, and leader?Closing QuestionStephen, for leaders listening today—especially those navigating change or uncertainty—what's one question they should be asking themselves right now to move closer to being “at their very best”?Thanks for joining us on Your World of Creativity.If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, share, and leave a review.And remember — creativity isn't just about ideas. It's about how you lead, adapt, and move forward.

Kelly sits down with Dr. Jeremy Levin, Executive Chairman and founder of Ovid Therapeutics, a public company focused on medicines for epilepsies and seizure-related brain disorders. He has a fantastic new book titled “Biotech in the Balance: Saving a Strategic Industry in an Age of Distrust.”  “Misinformation spreads faster than corrections.”  “Talented people learn that candor carries risk.”  “Medicines […]

Kelly has a fascinating conversation with King’s College London professor Fay Bound-Alberti about her compelling new book, “The Face: A Cultural History.” “The idea that a commoner would have their image captured for posterity was unthinkable.”  “The average person today takes 450 selfies a year.”  “Most people in the past didn't spend as much time looking at […]

Kelly connects with Amy Kurtz, a patient advocate, health coach, and author of the trailblazing book “Kicking Sick: Your Go-To Guide for Thriving with Chronic Health Conditions.” Amy has been featured on Good Morning America, Oprah Daily, The Boston Globe, Fox and New York Magazine. She has a new book, “But You Look Fine: Trapped in the Hell […]

Kelly meets Daryl Davis, a noted musician who is even more widely known for his extraordinary journey seeking out conversations with members of the Ku Klux Klan – a feat made more astonishing when you learn that Daryl is a Black man. In this conversation, we learn why Daryl has made this work his life […]

Kelly welcomes Marcus Buckingham back to the podcast. For over 25 years, Marcus has been the world's leading researcher on strengths, engagement, and human performance. He began his career at Gallup and was the co-creator, with Donald O. Clifton, of StrengthsFinder. He is a bestselling author with a brand-new book: “Design Love In: How to Unleash the Most […]

Nearly ten years ago, Kelly got connected with Stephanie Weaver, a speaking coach assigned to him for a TEDx-style talk in Chicago. Now, Stephanie has written a book, “Bitter, Sweet: How to Heal Yourself When Your Family is Broken.” Warning: this episode contains discussion of family sexual abuse. Please listen with care. “I help people […]

In this week's episode of the High Performance Podcast with Josh Phegan and Alexander Phillips, they talk through the critical skill of understanding the client and their situation, so you can get to yes. Learn the trial closes and situational awareness that the best agents use, to get to yes.

President Trump has claimed that the US will sign a nuclear deal with Iran, but there are major obstacles standing in the way. On Today's Show:Nate Swanson, former director for Iran at the National Security Council between 2022 and 2025 and current director of the Iran strategy project for the Atlantic Council, offers analysis. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In today's episode of Change Leadership Conversations, we bring you a practical panel discussion recorded live at the Change Leadership Conference on a challenge many change managers know well: how do you get to yes for change management? I'm joined by Silvia Fraser, Blake Bell and Esther Akinrinlola for a rich conversation on building organizational buy-in, showing value early, and embedding change capability across the organization. This episode explores what it takes to move change management beyond a checkbox activity and position it as a strategic enabler. The conversation gets into the work behind buy-in: understanding what matters to executives, activating informal influencers, creating shared language, and helping teams see change as part of how the organization works, not something that happens off to the side. Together, we explore: • How to build buy-in for change management  • Why showing value early is often more powerful than trying to sell the function • How to use data, business outcomes, and case studies to influence senior leaders • Why change capability must be built across the organization, not held by one team Panel Guests • Silvia Fraser: Director, Workplace Strategy & Transformation, Metrolinx • Blake Bell: Head, Global Change Enablement, Manulife • Esther Akinrinlola: Director, Change Management & Communications Resources & Links • Connect with Silvia Fraser, Blake Bell and Esther Akinrinlola on LinkedIn• Connect with Yvonne Ruke Akpoveta on LinkedIn • Learn more about Change Leadership Training• Explore the Change Leadership Conference 

Kelly goes across the pond to speak to educator Daisy Christodoulou, whose provocative books on education take aim at a lack of teacher autonomy, fact-based curricula, and the misuse of technology in the classroom. “You cannot unscramble knowledge and skills.” “Modern technology can’t do the memorizing for us.” “Good readers are those who tend to […]

Acclaimed journalist Benoit Denizet-Lewis joins Kelly to talk about his new book “You’ve Changed: The Promise and Price of Self-Transformation.” “Any identity is a kind of performance.” “Humans are broken meaning-making machines.”  “There's no freedom without the perception of change.” 

Kelly welcomes Leidy Klotz back to the podcast, where they last talked about his book, “Subtract: The Untapped Science of Less.” He has a new book, “In a Good Place: How the Spaces Where We Live, Work, and Play Can Help Us Thrive.” “Our inner and outer worlds are inseparable.” “Many books tell us how […]

Kelly talks with Erik LeDrew, a photojournalist and US Army veteran who transitioned from the chaos of combat to the chaos of filmmaking. He wrote and co-directed “Alex vs. ARod” for HBO, a fantastic documentary that looks at the life and career of baseball great Alex Rodriguez.  “Once you do something like join the US […]

Kelly sits down with Jake Braun, who has worked at the intersection of politics, national security, and foreign policy for over two decades and was appointed to prominent roles in the Obama and Biden administrations. He wrote the book “Democracy in Danger,” and he has a new book, “Fentanyl: Fighting the Mass Poisoning of America […]

Kelly connects with Dr. Khameer Kidia, a writer, physician, and anthropologist at Harvard Medical School and University of Zimbabwe. A Rhodes Scholar and 2023 New American Fellow, Dr. Kidia has worked on global mental health research practice, and advocacy for the last decade. He has a new book, “Empire of Madness: A Physician’s Case for […]

Kelly speaks with Erin McGoff, an award-winning filmmaker and content creator – known as the “internet’s big sister” through her AdviceWithErin branding. She received a Pulitzer Fellowship in 2017 and was named a Forbes 30 under 30 recipient in 2025. She has a new book: “The Secret Language of Work: Hyper-Helpful Scripts for Every Situation.” […]

Kelly connects with Julia Minson, a professor at Harvard Kennedy School. She is a behavioral scientist with extensive research experience in conflict, communication, negotiations, and decision-making. She has a new book: “How to Disagree Better.” 

Kelly talks to Joe Pine, an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups alike. He is a co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP, a thinking studio dedicated to helping businesses conceive and design new ways to add value to their economic offerings. He is the co-author of the best-seller “The Experience […]

Kelly spends time with Jane Marie Chen, a globally recognized entrepreneur, inventor, speaker, and leadership coach. She is the co-founder of Embrace, which developed an infant incubator that has helped to save over a million babies. Jane has been a TED fellow and a Young Global Leader of the World Economic Forum. She has a new memoir, “Like […]

Kelly talks to Jenny Raymond from the Harnish Foundation and Julie Dumais Osborne from The Second City Training Center to talk about a new partnership that offers free improv-based leadership training for girls in grades 3 through 8 in Chicago called Funny Girls. The best part: IT’S FREE! For more information or to sign up […]

Kelly welcomes futurist Bob Johansen back to the podcast to discuss his book “Navigating the Age of Chaos.” Bob introduces us to the term BANI, which describes the world we live in now: Brittle, Anxious, Nonlinear, and Incomprehensible. Spoiler alert – improvisation is a skill one needs to navigate this world. “In the mid-2010’s, everything […]

Kelly talks to Harvard professor Leslie John, whose research into self-disclosure provides a rich source of insights into how we can better build relationships, foster connection, and lead a more purposeful life when we are willing to be vulnerable and share details of our lives with others. “If in doubt, transparency is the safer bet.”  […]

In this engaging conversation, Kelly connects with Paul Eastwick to discuss his new book, ‘Bonded by Evolution,’ exploring misconceptions about love and connection. He critiques the outdated ‘Evo script’ that shapes our understanding of attraction and relationships, emphasizing the impact of modern dating practices. Eastwick highlights the fluidity of attraction, the importance of close relationships, […]

Journalist Kate Murphy has a compelling conversation with Kelly about her new book “Why We Click: The Emerging Science of Interpersonal Synchrony.” In this conversation, Kelly and Kate find a direct line between improvisational training and the kind of synchrony that leads to better relationships, more effective teams and the superpowers that flow from human […]

In this conversation, Kelly welcomes best-selling author Daniel Coyle back to the podcast. His new book, “Flourish: The Art of Building Meaning, Joy and Fulfillment,” emphasizes the significance of meaningful moments in life, particularly in fostering relationships and collaboration. He discusses how these moments often occur during ritual-like pauses where individuals reflect on their purpose […]

Kelly talks to former Obama White House EPA official Judith Enck, whose new book is called  “The Problem with Plastic: How We Can Save Ourselves and Our Planet Before It's Too Late.”  “Don't microwave food in plastic.”  “Plastics are on track to surpass coal emissions in the United States.”  “Get rid of all black plastic in your kitchen.”

In this engaging conversation, Kelly Leonard speaks with the Right Reverend Mariann Edgar Budde about her experiences as a leader, the nature of courage, and the lessons learned through parenting, grief, and improvisation. They explore the importance of speaking truth to power, the challenges of navigating loss, and the role of risk in personal growth. Budde emphasizes […]

In this engaging conversation, Dr. Anne-Laure LaCunff discusses her book ‘Tiny Experiments’ and explores the themes of curiosity, purpose, and personal growth. She shares her own awakening experience that led her to question her life choices and emphasizes the importance of embracing imperfection and experimentation. The discussion also delves into the dangers of having a […]

In this podcast episode, Kelly interviews Juan Bendana, a speaker and author of ‘Confident by Choice.’ They discuss the impact of early experiences on self-esteem, the importance of building a relationship with fear and discomfort, and how confidence is shaped by our experiences rather than innate traits. Juan shares insights on the confidence cycle, the […]

Getting to Yes with Yourself: The Art of Inner NegotiationIn this episode, we explore one of the most underrated yet powerful skills in personal growth: learning how to negotiate with yourself. Drawing inspiration from William Ury's book Getting to Yes with Yourself, we unpack the internal barriers that often sabotage our goals—not external resistance, but the silent friction within. Whether it's sticking to a health plan, changing careers, or taking time off, the hardest “yes” to get is often from ourselves.This episode offers practical insights into self-awareness, emotional honesty, and the tools of effective internal dialogue. It's about learning to listen to your true needs, treating yourself with empathy, and crafting realistic solutions when life doesn't go as planned.Top Topics Covered:1. The Hardest Person to Convince is YouWe often think the struggle lies in convincing others—our boss, our family, or our friends—but in truth, the biggest obstacle is internal. This episode opens with the reminder that we must first believe in our decisions before we can pursue meaningful change. The first "yes" must always come from within.2. Understanding BATNA: Your Backup PlanA key negotiation concept, BATNA (Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement), is explored through a personal lens. If your original plan—like taking an expensive vacation—falls through, what's your alternative? Maybe it's a cozy weekend in the woods. We discuss how to turn a “not now” into a satisfying “instead.”3. Listening to What You Really NeedWhat looks like a luxury car might actually be about needing safety. What sounds like a dream vacation might just be a cry for rest. By taking a step back—or going “to the balcony” as Ury calls it—we can see the deeper emotional drivers behind our surface-level goals.4. Facing Old Fears and Updating ThemMuch of our resistance to change comes from outdated fears. We dive into how these past experiences show up in new contexts, often holding us back. The goal isn't to dismiss the fear but to acknowledge it, understand its origin, and gently update it based on current reality.5. From WATNA to Minimum Viable ProgressThe episode also introduces WATNA (Worst Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement) and how to redefine “failure.” Sometimes, the smallest action—like a 10-minute workout—is still a win if it keeps you moving. It's about flexibility, compassion, and defining the bare minimum you can accept without giving up.Key Takeaways:Negotiating with yourself isn't about tricking yourself into doing hard things—it's about respect. Real change doesn't come from bullying yourself into action but from having honest, thoughtful conversations with your inner self. You'll learn that getting a “yes” from yourself starts by recognizing your true needs, challenging outdated beliefs, and being flexible enough to find the next best solution.This episode will inspire you to rethink how you make decisions and how to create a path forward even when the ideal solution isn't possible. It's not about perfection—it's about progress that sticks. Whether you're trying to improve your health, make a big life shift, or simply feel less stuck, the art of internal negotiation might just be your most valuable tool.Jill's Linkshttp://jillfromthenorthwoods.comhttps://startwithsmallsteps.comhttps://www.youtube.com/@startwithsmallstepshttps://www.buymeacoffee.com/startwithsmallsteps

Kelly connects with Tony Wagner, senior research fellow at the Learning Policy Institute and former codirector of Harvard Graduate School of Education's Change Leadership Group. They discuss his latest book – co-written with Ulrik Juul Christensen: “Mastery: Why Deeper Learning is Essential in an Age of Distraction.”  “Practice is an essential element of mastery learning.”  […]

Kelly talks to legendary screenwriter John August (“Big Fish,” “Charlie and The Chocolate Factory,” who co-hosts the “Scriptnotes” podcast with Craig Mazin (“Chernobyl,” “The Last of Us.”). They have a new book: “Scriptnotes: A Book About Screenwriting and Things That Are interesting to Screenwriters.”  “Be passionate in agreement. Be dispassionate in disagreement.”  “As writers, we […]

Kelly talks to Creative Director of Character Design at Sesame Workshop, Louis Henry Mitchell who has written the book: “Qreative Evolution: The Intimate Practice of Creative Fulfillment Through Guided Self-Education.”   “Creativity is not limited to one type of creation.”  “You don't decide your purpose in life; you discover it.”  “Confidence can be lost if it […]

Kelly welcomes Harvard professor Ranjay Gulati back to the podcast to discuss his new book, “How to Be Bold: The Surprising Science of Everyday Courage.”   “Courage is a learned behavior, not an innate one.”  “Heroes seldom act alone.”  “Sometimes, frankly, we take confidence too far.” 

William Ury is one of the world's most influential peacebuilders and experts on negotiation. He advised Colombian president Juan Manuel Santos in the lead up to that country's historic 2016 peace agreement with the FARC, and played a key role in de-escalating nuclear tensions between the U.S. and North Korea in 2017. Getting to Yes, which Ury co-wrote with Roger Fisher back in 1981, is the world's best selling book on negotiation. Ury co-founded the Program on Negotiation at Harvard, as well as the Abraham Path Initiative, an NGO that builds walking trails connecting communities in the Middle East. His new book is called  Possible: How we Survive - and Thrive - in an Age of Conflict. It's filled with incredible stories from Bill's career. In this episode, Bill talks about how lessons from the failures and success of the past – in places like Northern Ireland, Colombia, and the Middle East – can be instructive when dealing with the conflicts of today.  He shares exciting ideas about how journalists can tell stories about peace. What's more, his insights on managing conflict can be applied anywhere from the UN to the boardroom to your own family. William Ury's ideas aren't easy to implement –  in fact they're incredibly challenging. Ury says conflicts don't end, but they can be transformed, from fighting with weapons to hashing differences out in a democratic process. And if Northern Ireland, South Africa, and Colombia – places where people said violent conflict would go on forever – could transform their conflicts, then there's hope for the seemingly “impossible” conflicts of today. Music in this episode by Joel Cummins, Podington Bear, Kevin MacLeod, Meavy Boy, and Faszo.This episode was originally published in May 2024. ABOUT THE SHOW The Making Peace Visible podcast is hosted by Jamil Simon and produced by Andrea Muraskin. Our associate producer is Faith McClure. Learn more at makingpeacevisible.orgSupport our work Connect on social:Instagram @makingpeacevisibleLinkedIn @makingpeacevisibleBluesky @makingpeacevisible.bsky.social We want to learn more about our listeners. Take this 3-minute survey to help us improve the show!

Kelly connects with longtime film critic Nick Digilio to talk about his new book “40 Years, 40 Films.” They discuss growing up in Chicago, falling in love with movies, and Nick’s start at WGN Radio on the Roy Leonard Show. Then they dig into some of Nick’s favorite movies, such as Albert Brooks’ “Lost in […]

In this engaging conversation, Goldie Chan, a brand and storytelling expert, discusses the nuances of introversion, personal branding, and the dynamics between introverts and extroverts. She shares insights from her new book, ‘Personal Branding for Introverts,’ and emphasizes the importance of networking, small talk, and setting expectations in professional environments. Goldie also draws parallels between […]

Kelly talks to Venezuelan-born, Chicago-based photographer Daniel Moreno about his new book of photographs of Chicago’s legendary Holiday Train.  “To me, the Holiday Train is more than a seasonal spectacle; it's a train of light.” “I've felt the collective joy of strangers momentarily united by a shared sense of awe.”  “In the end, the train doesn't […]

In this conversation, Kelly Leonard interviews Bastion Bergmann, co-founder and COO of Solston, about the significance of play in human experience and its implications for business strategy, particularly in gaming. They discuss how gaming can serve as a powerful tool for engagement and marketing, illustrated by Burberry’s innovative approach to integrating their brand into a […]

Kelly welcomes Caroline Stokes back to the podcast to discuss her new book “Aftershock to 2030: A CEO's Guide to Reinvention in the Age of AI, Climate and Societal Collapse.” “This book is about reprogramming the nervous system of leadership.”  “Technology offers both promise and paradox.”  “Virtue signaling has become a form of social currency.” 

Send us a textFairfax, Virginia, criminal lawyer Jonathan Katz first met international relations expert and five-book author Abiodun Williams when they were university students. When Jon Katz at that first sit down mentioned all the very important things left to learn on his path, Abi summed up the right approach perfectly: "Information overload." Abi clearly has dealt with his share of expansive data and other information and writings, having tackled demanding obligations starting in his student years, followed by overseas peacemaking and conflict resolution missions, working with United Nations secretaries general, serving at a high level at the United States Institute for Peace, and now back as a professor of international relations.By now, Jon Katz has learned the persuasive, self development, internal health, and time management benefits of paring down the data bombarding our heads, by focusing on and working in the present moment; quieting the mind through mindfulness, taijiquan martial arts practice, and full attention and focus; and recognizing that trials are not about chasing the strength and preparedness of opponents, rather than to go to the courtroom battlefield fully prepared for the expected and unknown, fully focused on persuading the judge and jury, and not getting sucked into any sideshows presented by prosecutors and opposing witnesses.This entire conversation lends itself well to criminal defense work, where even a usually more desirable judge and more desirable prosecutor can seriously disappoint the criminal defense lawyer, if for no other reason than that their oaths, agendas and obligations are not the same as that of the criminal defense lawyer, and their personalities, tendencies and own frustrations are completely human.This conversation includes discussing Roger Fisher's and William Ury's essential getting to yes approach to negotiations and conflicts, where the focus is on discovering and overlapping the parties' goals and interests rather than digging into postilions and getting stuck over personalities (and, I add, transcending words that reach even the level of coming across as insults) of the negotiating parties. William Ury aptly talks about the importance of developing our own selves in the process of negotiating, including finding a pause to move in the right direction at a challenging crossroads, Fisher & Ury also address the best alternative to a negotiated agreement (BATNA), where Jon Katz's BATNA usually is proceeding to trial.Abi Williams well exemplifies the spirit of mining and pursuing the possibilities in the midst of conflict, rather than getting sucked into any boobytraps or black holes along the way.____This episode is also available on YouTube at https://youtu.be/GfNV6Dp1YrM.This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675

In this episode, Kelly Leonard interviews James Kimmel Jr., a clinical professor and author, about his book ‘The Science of Revenge.’ They explore the neuroscience behind revenge, its addictive nature, and how it manifests in real-life scenarios. Kimmel shares compelling stories, including those of mass violence, and discusses the role of mental illness in revenge-seeking […]

Margaret Andrews leads a popular class at Harvard University that she has turned into the book: “Manage Yourself to Lead Others: Why Great Leadership Begins with Self-Understanding.” “Leadership is ultimately about relationships.”  “Each new level of leadership requires a new level of us.”  “Leadership is, in many ways, a creative act.”

Kelly has a powerful conversation with longtime friend and Second City colleague Tania Richard, whose new book “Black Girl from a White Suburb” looks at race, a life in theatre, loss and finding resilience along the way. “People think actors are good liars. We aren't.” “We believe what we need to get by.”  “There is no other […]

Kelly connects with longtime BBDO CEO Andrew Robertson to talk about his new book: “The Creative Shift: How to Power Up Your Organization by Making Space for New Ideas.”  “Every new idea represents a risk.”  “Creativity happens in leaps, not steps.”  “All great ideas sound great – in retrospect.” 

Kelly talks to Muriel Wilkins, host of the award-winning Harvard Business Review podcast, Coaching Real Leaders. Her latest book is called “Leadership Unblocked: Break Through the Beliefs That Limit Your Potential.”  “Lasting change comes from within.”  “I want to be clear that coaching is not a substitute for therapy.”  “Our reluctance to engage in self-reflection […]

Kelly celebrates the release of Anne Libera’s new book on comedy, “Funnier.” They talk in front of a live audience at The Second City.  “Don’t waste your time following gurus.” “We need to value risk.” “True irony is deeper than simple opposition. It is opposition mixed with justice of a sort.”

Kelly welcomes Richard Thaler, the 2017 recipient of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences, to the podcast along with his co-author, Professor Alex Imas, to talk about their updated version of Thaler’s seminal book “The Winner’s Curse.” “Rationality is an assumption in economics, not a demonstrated fact.”  “People are not thinking enough about what […]

Kelly welcomes the always provocative Tomas Chamorro-Premuzic back to the podcast to talk about his new book: “Don't Be Yourself: Why Authenticity is Overrated (and What to Do Instead).” “By all means, keep it real – just don't make everyone else suffer for it.” “Everybody loves change until they have to do it themselves.”  “Most of us […]