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Brad and Lesley recap her conversation with franchise expert Jon Ostenson, unpacking how non-food franchising helps risk-averse entrepreneurs own a business without reinventing the wheel. They highlight funding paths, corporate support, and why following the playbook matters. You will hear practical ways to start while keeping your day job and how Jon's services are paid by franchisors, not you.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co mailto:beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/#follow-subscribe-free.In this episode you will learn about:When to treat Reformer footwork differently from leg press.How franchise ownership works even if you keep your day job.Why matching your strengths to the right franchise matters.Why matching your strengths to the right franchise matters.Common mistakes franchisees make when they don't follow the playbook.The mindset shifts around seeing $50K as possible, not impossible.Episode References/Links:Indivisible Movement - https://indivisible.orgBook: She Caused A Riot by Hannah Jewell - https://a.co/d/cGhs5UYP.O.T. Chicago 2025 - https://pilates.com/pilates-on-tour-chicagolandCambodia October 2025 Waitlist - https://crowsnestretreats.comWinter Tour Waitlist - https://opc.me/eventsSubmit your wins or questions - https://beitpod.com/questionsEp. 544 Matthew Lesko - https://beitpod.com/matthewleskoBook: Non-Food Franchising by Jon Ostenson - https://a.co/d/29XayrQ If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSIDEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentCheck out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentBe in the know with all the workshops at OPC https://workshops.onlinepilatesclasses.com/lp-workshop-waitlistBe It Till You See It Podcast Survey https://pod.lesleylogan.co/be-it-podcasts-surveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship https://lesleylogan.co/elevate/FREE Ditching Busy Webinar https://ditchingbusy.com/Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gLesley Logan website https://lesleylogan.co/Be It Till You See It Podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjogqXLnfyhS5VlU4rdzlnQProfitable Pilates https://profitablepilates.com/about/Follow Us on Social Media:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lesley.logan/The Be It Till You See It Podcast YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gFacebook https://www.facebook.com/llogan.pilatesLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-logan/The OPC YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@OnlinePilatesClasses Episode Transcript:Brad Crowell 0:00  His services to you are free. How are they free, you ask, because he sees what you're trying to do. Then he goes to the franchise, the parent company, and he says, pay me, and I'll help these guys succeed doing your franchise. Pretty brilliant. I was like, wow, that's amazing.Lesley Logan 0:20  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.Lesley Logan 0:59  Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the supporting convo I had with Jon Ostenson in our last episode. If you haven't yet listened to that interview, feel free to pause this now, go back and listen to that one, and then come back and join us, or listen to this one, and then you can decide if you want to listen that one. I think it's great. Jon has a book. It's really wonderful. It's a very niche topic. It's a nerdy topic. It's one I wanted to have because I don't think entrepreneurs, I'm like, making your own idea is for everybody, but I do think everybody deserves to have the wealth and agency that they want to have in this world and make what they want to make. So I'm excited about it. Brad Crowell 1:30  Well, I thought I really liked, I really liked the conversation. I was very I mean, especially for me, because I am very entrepreneurial, but I appreciated the back and forth. So, yeah, I, I think that it was very revealing. Lesley Logan 1:51  Are you saying it was a great interview? Did I do a good job? Brad Crowell 1:51  I'm saying it was a great interview. Not only that, but I think the information that he's sharing is shocking. He's super smart dude, and I thought, I thought it was very revealing for someone who might be hoping, wishing they could own a business. This was very empowering, because it, it created hope I think. So, yeah, great. Lesley Logan 2:17  I well, you'll, you guys, stay tuned. You'll hear what we're talking about in a second. Today is September 11th, 2025 and it's Patriot Day, which gives us all time to reflect on the devastating terror attacks that took 3000 lives. We commemorate those who we lost, and give thanks to the brave responders who put their lives on the line. Take a moment today to consider what we stand for as a nation, how we can work together to make the world a better place for all. It's a hard day. Brad Crowell 2:39  Yeah, I mean.Lesley Logan 2:40  Especially with 20, with 25 years to reflect on what fucking lies we're told afterwards, and then how we treat the first responders and how fucking hard it was to get their medical bills paid because they're dying from cancer right now. Like.Brad Crowell 2:56  Yeah, it's like, it's like a story that keeps repeating itself where something devastating happens that is wrong and tragic. People die and then motherfuckers in office take advantage of the public's emotional state, and they use it to go do some wrong shit. Lesley Logan 3:18  Go, so seriously, go watch the movie Vice. I happen to be really lucky to be teaching Christian Bale's wife at the time that he was filming that. And so it was a really interesting time, because, like, he was becoming Dick Cheney, which, like, it is a, I mean, of course, he won an, I think he won a bunch of awards for that. And he literally thanked Satan for the inspiration. Brad Crowell 3:41  Yes, he did. Lesley Logan 3:37  And I remember, I remember my client. I remember my client was, my client was just like, I fucking told him not to do that, or something like that. And so anyways, but go watch it, because it, while it's not historical, it is pretty fucking accurate about like, how rich Cheney and these bitches got after doing what they did and using, using the heartbreak, and what people fought with patriotism to go make these fucking wars, and then we did a bunch of bullshit, and then we ruined places. And it just pisses me off, because. Brad Crowell 4:04  Over, over, lies. Lesley Logan 4:09  Lies and so. And also, if you don't believe in September 11th being what it was like, I don't know why you're here, but like, I, I just really.Brad Crowell 4:18  Well, it was, I mean, it was a terrorist attack, no question. But what we did after it, how the public was manipulated, to then go to war for 20 years after, based on literal lies, you know.Lesley Logan 4:30  Yeah, it's, I it's hard because, like, okay, reflecting on what we consider as a nation today, I think, as an I think the people running our nation today reflect something I would never want to be a patriot of.Brad Crowell 4:42  Yeah, and that that's, that's the thing that really frustrates me as a person who, when you read the definition of patriot, I want to be that. That is absolutely, I mean, I consider myself a patriot. But also there's this, there's this frustrating association with angry white men, usually, who don't give a shit about people. And there's so much fear of others associated with it. And there's this ego that's associated with it that.Lesley Logan 5:17  It's, it's so it's so fragile. What they're like, they're thinking is so they are. They're such fragile people. Because they're just like, they're the way that they think, that they're showing strength. And we're like, protesting, they're like, like, making sure that we see the middle finger, and like, just like, and it's like, I have never driven in my entire life, of driving past something, we're talking about this with the protest where I disagree. Brad Crowell 5:39  We used to live by protests all the time, where we lived in L.A., we're literally next to the federal building, so it was like, every weekend, forever.Lesley Logan 5:45  Every weekend, it was like, who's protesting today? And like, there were times I was like, oh, I wonder why. It made me get curious as to, like, what is going on here. It was very fascinating. And it was like, what the fuck like, but I never was like, here's my middle finger to you. It's like, just, you know, move along. Move right along. The fact that you have to make sure I see your face in your lifted stupid truck while you flip me off, it makes you and that makes you feel good. You're like, yeah, I did it to them. I did it like, we were in Idaho, and there was a big ass sign in this guy's house. I was walking by the lake, and it was like, make liberals cry again, and it's like, oh, you think I'm crying. I'm pissed off. Like the tears of the tears are of what we are losing, of course, but like, no, I'm pissed off. James Baldwin, I want to, I want to make sure everyone hears this quote, because I think it's really beautiful, and I think it's this is what being a patriot is. I love America more than any other country in the world, and exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually. And I think that, like, this country has so many shortcomings, and no country is perfect. Like, I was listening to Sophia Bush on a podcast recently, and she's like, like, I'm not gonna move because, like, I love this place. I'm gonna fight for her. And so, like, if you moved and whatever, like, I have no judgments for that, but if you're here, like, you have to fight, because we're losing rights. We're losing rights. And it really pisses me off, because in the time of my mother being an adult and married woman, she could not get a credit card until, like, the 80s, right? Like, like, I if you're listening to this and you're just like, la, la, la, I just want to hear about how to be till I see it. Ladies, you are going to lose your ability to have your own bank account. You're gonna lose your ability to have your own vote. And if you think it's not going to happen because, oh, it's not going to happen. It's they want it to happen. And the right people are in power. And I'm tired of being told that Project 2025 is bullshit. It is happening right now. Lesley Logan 5:46  They're more than 50% of the way through completing Project 2025.Lesley Logan 5:48  In the time we're recording this, seven months. Brad Crowell 7:40  Yeah, seven months. And, I mean, you know, if you go through and you actually read the things that are in that platform, they they do want to make single family voting, which is literally taking away the white the rights of women, because they would consider the man the head of the household. Lesley Logan 8:02  And if you think, oh, I'm not married yeah your brother get to vote for you. I don't have a brother, your uncle get to vote for you. Like they will find a man if and when this type of life existed, they would find someone in the government to become your vote. You don't get there's no getting out of this. You don't get one.Brad Crowell 8:17  Yeah, and, and, and the people in power are Tweeting about that stuff, literally right now, right like they're they're putting it out there. They're trying to normalize the idea so that when they go and try to do it, it doesn't seem like it's as big of a deal as it actually fucking is. Lesley Logan 8:32  So you know what I think patriotism is right now, babe, it is, find a protest. I know you're busy. I know you have fucked tons, going on. We are, too. Find one. Go for an hour. Go yell. Go meet friends. Go meet people who are different than you. It's, these protests people, some people are fighting for their their gay marriages to still exist. Some people are fighting further to not be war. Some people are fighting for God. Some people are fighting to like for the Epstein list. I don't care what gets you out there, but like you think that this, that what they're gonna do is not gonna affect your life, it is. It is. Brad Crowell 8:55  Yeah, go, go check out individual, indivisible.org, for a local, you know, event, or how you can get involved near you. So, you know, we're gonna move on, and we're gonna actually. Lesley Logan 9:11  Well, people like this, Brad, we've been told, hi, Vicky.Brad Crowell 9:14  I think it's so important y'all and and it's like this, I know that we this isn't a podcast about politics, but it is. Lesley Logan 9:22  But also, but also. Brad Crowell 9:23  Being it until you see it is a pod, it is about like politics, and it is a part of every single element of our life, even if you have the perfect life, quote, unquote, it's because of politics that you are able to live the way that you live. And what's happening right now is such fast, dramatic change in our countries. Like, historically, there's so much change happening so quickly there, that when we wake up, you know, in even six months from now, it's going to be like, there we are at the brink of things. Lesley Logan 9:53  I don't even know how we're going to make it to the midterms. That's my fear. That's my fear, and I put it out right now, but I will just say, even if you're like, less. I just want a homestead. I want to be like tradwife. The fact that you get to choose that is because of politics. So that is fine if that's what you want to choose to do. But do not think that everybody wants to do that and that that should be the choice for everybody. So I think that like that is why we have to get involved. And if you are a woman, you are political. Your existence in any room is political has been and if you really want to get fired up, go read the book, She Caused A Riot. Go look at history. Like fucking Socrates, his teacher was a woman. Did you know that? The reason you don't know that is because politics, they didn't want you to know that there was leaders in this world.Brad Crowell 10:39  Politics and religion. Lesley Logan 10:39  Fuck that. Anyways. Brad Crowell 10:39  Frustrating. Lesley Logan 10:39  I'm pissed off, but we're currently in the U.K. We're in the U.K. and then when we get home, well, we're home for a couple of weeks, and we gotta see my best friends and come visit, and then we're gonna go to Chicagoland for Pilates On Tour with Balanced Body. I'm doing the Joe's Gyms there. That's in Burr Ridge. If there's any spots left, you should snag one, because it's super, super fun, and we have a huge party coming with all of our agency eLevate OPC members, then we're gonna be in Cambodia. That's also in October. You can still join like you can join last minute. Guess what? Flight planes will sell a seat as long as there is one. So you can get the fuck out of town and retreat a little bit and be in a different world and get some empathy for what it's like to live in different places.Brad Crowell 11:21  Yeah, and experience a different culture and see that not everybody.Lesley Logan 11:24  If you are worried. Sorry, I cut you off. If you're worried about being an American in a different country, let me tell you, they see what's happening right now, and they are, in Cambodia, they are sad for us. They are scared for us. They know that they know where we're headed, and they're sad for us.Brad Crowell 11:25  Yeah, I was just gonna say with our experience recently about trying to cross borders and getting stuck and turned around and not being able to, it wasn't the it wasn't the attendees of the events that we were not able to attend who were angry with us. It was the border guard who was, you know, unfortunately, misinformed and, you know, and angry. And he's angry because the border guards of our country were turning away people for no reason. So he could just, that's the only power he had, was to turn away, you know, Americans for no reason. And we just kind of got caught up in that. So there's a lot of, there is a lot of frustration, but it's not from the people, right, in this country, it's like, you know? So, so I would say, you know, yeah, it did feel a little bit stressful to you know, as we were approaching, once we got there and started talking to them, it became clear that that there was just silly reasons being turned away but, but even in that, like the you know, the guy wasn't like, he wasn't an asshole about it. So, but I it was really frustrating. If you're worried about something like that, when you come to a place like Cambodia, you apply for your visa ahead of time. You will know before you arrive if they're going to turn you around, because you'll have the right paperwork.Lesley Logan 13:06  And also you're we're all going as tourists. The Canadian thing, we were going into work. Brad Crowell 13:11  That's true. Lesley Logan 13:11  And that was it, we'll have to do a whole episode on it, because it's a longer, longer conversation. That being said, you go to. Brad Crowell 13:18  But as a tourist, they want a tourist. They want that because. Lesley Logan 13:21  That's how they're that's literally how their country survives. Brad Crowell 13:24  Yep, it's how well, it's how the city that we're going to, that's how the economy there survives, from tourism. So, you know, and they are very aware of that, so. Lesley Logan 13:32  Yes, they want us there. They're so welcoming, they're so kind, and you can see what it's like to be living in a different part of this world. I think that's so important. I think one of the biggest reasons why people in this, in the U.S., are so fucking scared of people of a different color is because they've never, they've never gone and seen how they live. Yeah, you know, go get worldly. You will have more empathy, crowsnestretreats.com. After we leave Cambodia, we're going to be in Singapore. We're going to teach at a beautiful studio there, and then we're gonna see the Botanical Gardens. And then we're home. We're home for the whole month of November. Oh my God, no, Brad, I'm not going camping anywhere. We're home for the whole month of November. Brad Crowell 14:10  But my parents are coming. We're gonna go camp. Lesley Logan 14:12  No, we're, that is not why they're coming to visit us. Help make an, help you with the roof or something. And then October, we're gonna be on our winter tour. And if you want to make sure you hear about that first, go to opc.me/events, opc.me/events, because our people on our waitlist will get the access to the tickets first. And the winter tour does have cities that sell out in 24 hours. Okay, we have to get to our interview, but we do have an audience question. So Brad, go for it.Brad Crowell 14:37  Yes. Okay. DMK asks on Instagram, hey Lesley, my footwork question is this, what cue or cues do you like to use during footwork? I'm sorry, if footwork students, very confused. They made a mistake on the word here.Lesley Logan 14:42  What cues do you like to use, if during footwork, students are using it like a leg press? Brad Crowell 14:56  Oh, sorry. Okay. Lesley Logan 14:57  Yeah, thank you. Brad Crowell 14:59  Well, I just read that wrong. That's all.Lesley Logan 15:00  It's okay, it's all good. So.Brad Crowell 15:04  First off, we're clearly talking about. Lesley Logan 15:06  Footwork on the Reformer. Yeah. DMK, this, I hate cues.Brad Crowell 15:13  Well, hold on, let's explain what the problem is. What is the problem that she's experiencing with her class? Lesley Logan 15:17  The problem that she's probably seen is they're, they're, they're pushing out and in, like, it's a leg press machine, like, it's like a leg machine, and they're making it only a leg exercise versus a full body exercise, right? And then the other thing is that they're not using all the muscles of their legs, because they're just, like, shoving their knees straight. And they're probably pausing at the top, which is what you do on a leg press machine. And then kind of, hopefully, on a leg press machine, you're resisting. But a lot of people just kind of, like, close the the weights, or just like, kind of float in or ride the springs in. So here's the deal, DMK, my teacher, Jay Grimes, and the teachers I studied with him, talked a lot about how Joe didn't really correct during footwork. You use footwork to tell you what's kind of going on in the person's body. So I also happen to like three or four springs on for footwork. So some people think that, like heavy springs means they're gonna use it like a leg press machine, but ideally you want those heavy springs to warm the body up. Two lightest springs can actually affect someone's lower back, if they have a tight lower back, or they're not getting the connection, and the warm up for what's to come. So I do like three to four springs. That being said, what you can do for those people who want to make it a leg press machine, take all the springs off, go down to one light spring and see what happens. They're going to fly off. And you're like, yeah, you actually have to push into the foot bar the whole time, even as you come in. So I love a one spring, because it kind of helps teach the actual movement, and then load the springs up. If you take my fast workshop, I think you can get it on our OPC website. You'll see how I explain how to use especially with arches and heels to do that. The other thing I would say is ask them, if they are opening the front of the hips or opening the back of the knees. What is their intention? Meaning, the, when you focus on opening the knee joint, you're a leg press machine. When you focus on opening the front of the hips, you're making this move from your center. I am looking, I actually don't care people's knees go straight. I'm looking at, can they move their thigh away from their center and open the front of their hips and then pull that back in. So I'm kind of looking at that, but if they don't do those things, the footwork is just really telling me how they're actually moving. And I have to pick other exercises to assist. So other ways to help them understand that's not like press machine would be doing leg springs. Single leg springs, both leg springs, footwork on the Tower is gonna be really helpful, because that's a whole different plane. And so like, find different exercises that get your point across. Ask them what they're feeling and then take them back to the Reformer and say, find that feeling here.Lesley Logan 17:39  Great. Love it. That's the best cue you could do. Lesley Logan 17:50  There you go. Brad Crowell 17:50  I love it. Great question, DMK. Lesley Logan 17:52  Thanks, DMK. Brad Crowell 17:52  If you have a question, just text us. 310-905-5534, 310-905-5534 or you can actually send your question in through, beitpod.com/questions, beitpod.com/questions.Lesley Logan 18:07  That's where you can also send your wins in, too. I want your wins, people. Brad Crowell 18:14  We want your wins. Let's do it. All right. Stick around. We'll be right back. We're actually going to talk about Jon Ostenson next. Lesley Logan 18:20  Finally. Brad Crowell 18:22  All right, let's talk about Jon Ostenson. An expert in franchising and based out of Atlanta, Georgia, Jon Ostenson left his W2 job eight years ago, after years in the corporate world, to become president of Shelf Genie, a large franchise system where he says he fell in love with the franchise model, which he explained amazingly and in detail during the interview. So if you didn't get a chance to listen to that, I would, I would very much encourage you to go listen to it. It was super informative. He is, Jon, is now the founder of FranBridge Consulting and author of the bestselling book, Non-Food Franchising, which, Lesley, I know you read, I've seen it on our table out there. Jon helps clients find suitable franchise opportunities from over 600 different brands outside of the fast food industry. His mission is to guide individuals who want to own a business but may feel risk-averse or lack a, quote unquote, genius idea connecting with them with proven scalable franchise model, and here's the, models, and here's the crazy thing, this is where I was like, oh my God, this guy's brilliant, his services to you are free. How are they free, you ask, because he sees what you're trying to do then he goes to the franchise, the parent company, and he says, pay me, and I'll help these guys succeed doing your franchise. Yeah, pretty brilliant. I was like, wow, that's amazing. So.Lesley Logan 19:44  I love it. I love it so much because it's, like, it's completely risk-averse for you, like, and the reason I thought this, I really wanted to dig in with this guy, because I don't even understand how you get into a franchise, and. Brad Crowell 19:58  Well, it makes me want to get into franchises. Lesley Logan 20:00  I know. And we just met someone who's like, all he does is all these different franchises and and so I just like it because, like, first of all, we talked a lot about how you could, like, work and have a franchise. Like, it's like, there's like, there's all these different ways you can do it. So, anyways.Brad Crowell 20:16  Yeah, he said a lot of franchisors, the people on the franchise, still might have a day job, because. Lesley Logan 20:21  Yeah. Aren't they a franchisee? Brad Crowell 20:24  Oh, sorry, franchisee. You're, you're right. The franchisor is the parent company. The franchisee is the person who's, who's like, purchase one of the locations or whatever. So the franchisee as if you could still be working your normal life and have a franchise, obviously, then it's about the team that you put in place to make sure that they can run it without you having to be there. But, but this guy was talking about having franchises all over the country, so he's clearly not in them operating them. Lesley Logan 20:51  Yeah. But also. No. And so you can be an owner-operator. He has, he, like, his book has got a lot of this stuff in it, if you want to, like, dig in even more and then chat with him, but like, here's what I. Brad Crowell 20:51  And by the way, we're not just talking about Pilates franchises. Lesley Logan 21:02  No, he is, like, there's so many, there's some out there. And also, like, I personally, I personally don't want to grab someone else's Pilates franchises, because, the way I like to teach, I probably would want to make my own, but maybe I want to get one that's in the like, maybe that's like a red light sauna space or something that goes along with what I do, that's like in the thing that I am interested in, in life, like I'm already. Brad Crowell 21:23  Or salt path, float, float, yeah, floating, yeah.Lesley Logan 21:27  By the way, there is a float place that I'm sure, is a franchise in Nashville that I'm like, how the fuck do we get it out here in our neighborhood? Because I'm tired of driving 30 minutes to go fucking float, I'm pissed off by the time I get back. Anyways, we just need, I don't know, a few thousands of dollars, and then we can do it, babe. I think, here's where our next adventure is. Brad Crowell 21:45  (inaudible) crazy is you said that, like, a lot of people, will start a franchise with maybe, you know, $50,000 to $100,000 down, and the rest of it is actually from a an SBA loan, because the SBA and the banks believe in the franchise model so much that they are willing to effectively front the rest of the startup capital. And I was like, wow, I never thought about that. That's amazing. Because, and like, you know, $50,000 is still a shitload of money. I understand that. But it also isn't a million dollars, right? Lesley Logan 22:18  And also, like, anyone who wants to start to make legitimate money, you have to stop thinking that $50,000 is a lot of money, start thinking it's possible, that you can get it, that there's a way, because I remember thinking that, oh, my God, it's so much money. And let me tell you the long as you think 50,000 is so much money you're gonna have, it's gonna feel so far away when you start to think like, of course I still have to find $50,000 you, go listen to that podcast we have with the guy with the question marks, I forget his name, anyways, go and find it, but let's just talk about things I loved that he said. Okay, let me get into my notes. He said, you're in business for yourself, but not by yourself. And I love this, because so many of the people I meet, they're like, so lucky that you and Brad, like, are married and like, you work together. And our biggest response is, like, not everyone should do what we do. So if you want to be in business for yourself, but not by yourself, instead of working with your partner, why don't you get a partner? And it can be a franchise like, I think that's really cool.Brad Crowell 23:09  And different franchisors offer different support, and that's one of the conversations that that you could have with a person like Jon, where you might be like, hey, I am innately a marketer, but I'm terrible at operations, right? Then he, he might say, okay, well, this franchise, you know, whatever, they can help. Or, or conversely, I hate marketing. I'm really, that's not my jam. I need a franchise that will create the content for me that I can just use to put out there. So they're different, like, corporate offices will do different things for the business to support the franchisee and but, but, but as a as a layman, how am I supposed to know? But Jon gets to see hundreds of franchises. Lesley Logan 23:53  I think that's what's so cool. Is like, if you know your strengths, then you can talk to Jon and figure out, like, what are the different franchises that I'm interested in that are, like, in an area I want to be in, and then, okay, of those, which one matches my strengths and my weaknesses? Because you don't want to have something that's like, great at marketing and you're great at marketing, but like, has the systems are not there for the operations, like things like that, but also the franchiser does a lot for you. And remember, it's a proven business model, so like, it's already figured like, it's already thrown ideas at the wall, figured out what works, and then you just get to rinse and repeat that. And I really, I really like that for people who want to create their own schedule, create their own impact, be part of the community, but are risk-averse, you know? And by the way, I get it, we just.Lesley Logan 24:39  I'm risk-averse, too. Lesley Logan 24:39  Oh my god, you really are. Brad Crowell 24:41  But in a measurable way. But it's like, I wouldn't want to go, just go throw money away and hope, hope that something works. Imagine being able to follow a systematic approach where they figured out all the kinks in the business. Like, like the business that Lesley and I run that we've created, it has taken us a lot longer to get to where we are today. It's literally 10 years now, 10 years of running this business, yeah, 10 years of trying to figure things out, making mistakes, doing all this stuff, when with a franchise model, there are so many less mistakes to make, because hypothetically, they've already made the mistakes for you and figured it out and put together the playbook that you can simply follow the plan, the process, right? I really loved when he talked about business ownership is really hard. It takes a lot of work. And, yeah, that's that's very true, too. And he said, if it was easy, everyone would be a business owner, and what he what so, so, of all the pros that we've been talking about with a franchise model, it still does take a lot of work, and it's it takes focus and and the biggest thing he mentioned was the people who fail don't follow the plan, right? And Jon goes, calls up the franchise corporate office and goes, yo, what happened here? What's going on? And the franchisor said, you know, would say to Jon, well, look, we did everything we could to support this person, but they didn't listen. They just didn't fucking listen, you know. And that doesn't mean that, like, there won't still be challenges, because every single location is different, every market is different, every opportunity. And what I mean that, I mean different franchise model is different, you know. So it still will take work, but you don't have to do it alone, you know. And that that's amazing, you know. So, so anyway, he doesn't sugarcoat franchises but he said it's a lot easier and a lot more predictable. Lesley Logan 26:40  His book, actually, like, talks about, like, like, kind of like, if it's for you, you know, and this is where like, it, for us to follow the rules, right, with you, you have to know, okay, we're gonna do this thing with this company. We're gonna follow their rules, which means I'm gonna hire someone to go follow their rules, because I am unemployable, so I will probably fuck him up, but you have to know that about yourself, you know. Such a cool dude. He also was like, because I told him I have an idea, I still have an idea that I might want to, like happen and make, and franchise and he's like, just give me a call. Run it by me. And I'm like, amazing. I just love how generous people can be. Brad Crowell 27:18  Yeah, yeah. Well, stick around, we're going to talk about how generous Jon is with his Be It Action Items, in just a minute. Brad Crowell 27:25  All right, so finally, let's talk about those Be It Action Items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Jon Ostenson? He said he really encourages people who are interested in franchising or the concept of franchising, to just simply explore, that there's no downside, there's no cost to learn about how it works, what it is, is it even plausible for me? Is this something that I could do while still doing my life? He said it's super free to work with them, which we already talked about at the very beginning of this convo here. FranBridge consulting, his company helps clients navigate and find top available opportunities among over 600 different non-food franchise brands and. Lesley Logan 28:08  We love that. I do not want to deal with food. Brad Crowell 28:10  Well, he's he's not, he's not opposed to food, but it also, apparently, just adds a whole lot more variables in there. Lesley Logan 28:16  I used to work at a coffee shop, and it was small business-owned, and I'm going to tell you right now, it is,.Brad Crowell 28:21  Well, that's different than a franchise, because a franchise is a system, so small business-owned might make things just complicated because they're making shit up.Lesley Logan 28:28  Food, food, there's, like, the things you have to do to prevent rats.Brad Crowell 28:32  Right, there's just a lot more variables when it comes to food. There's also a lot of more licensing and a lot more, like red tape with like, local state government stuff, you know. So anyway, he explained that what I already mentioned is that, how does he get paid? He gets paid by the franchise business, the corporate, right? He, you're not necessarily paying him directly. So, I mean, it seems like an absolute win-win.Lesley Logan 28:57  Just worth having the conversation like there's no, there's no harm in it, you know. Brad Crowell 29:00  Yeah. What about you? Lesley Logan 29:01  So I love that he said, activity breeds activity. Yes. It's like a body in motion, stays in motion. Yesterday, we just got into town, you know, at midnight on Friday night. I guess it's Saturday morning. Anyways, our friend, my she saw me at the gym, and she's like, you're like, the most consistent creature. And I'm like, I don't if I was to not be consistent, like, like, if I used travel as an excuse, I would never be consistent. So activity breeds activity. A body motion stays in motion. Explain, it's the idea he saw play out in his career and life, that whenever he gets off the sidelines he starts moving to Option A or B. That's that, then that's when option C comes out of left field. He says, good things happen when you're in motion. And it's so true. Like, it's so true. You know, even we got sidelined with the fucking Canada thing, we pivoted and kept going. And, like, because we did that, other things happened, that the dominoes kept going. And like, these other opportunities came around. And I think, like. Brad Crowell 29:53  Yeah, we met a whole studio we never would have met. Lesley Logan 29:55  We totally did. Could be a pop-up someday. But at any rate, like, you know, you, you'd be surprised what happens. Too often, we get we get sidelined, and we're like, I'm gonna sit over here. Keep going, take another step. And if you hear, as you hear in the podcast, it says action is the antidote to fear. So anyways, I'm Lesley Logan. Brad Crowell 30:16  And I'm Brad Crowell. Lesley Logan 30:17  Thank you so much for listening to our podcast. We love your reviews. Leave us more reviews. I want more reviews. It's my love language. And share this with a person who needs to hear it like you might have a friend in your life who is like, kind of stuck, kind of wondering what to do. Maybe this is what they need. So send them Jon's episode. Send them this episode. And until next time, Be It Till You See It. Brad Crowell 30:38  Bye for now. Lesley Logan 30:38  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod. Brad Crowell 31:21  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 31:27  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.Brad Crowell 31:31  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 31:39  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.Brad Crowell 31:42  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

San Jose's mayor isn't a fan or rewarding performative politicsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Graham Linehan gets arrested for his tweets, Google finds out it won't have to sell off its search engines, and the AI bubble is at risk of bursting. Ashley Frawley and Geoff Shullenberger join Matthew Schmitz. Compact Magazine is reader-supported. Become a member and gain unlimited access. https://compactmag.com/subscribe

The TARDIS is "going nowhere" apparently! That's what the BBC said said week - and the irony is that's how it all began, in a junkyard, in 1963.......! Join Phil and James as they talk about where Doctor Who is now and speculate about when we can expect it to be back on our screens. Has Disney Plus disappeared in to the sunset with their big bag of cash? Has RTD cried (Bad) Wolf once too often? Will we ever know why Billie Piper and Carole Ann Ford were actually in the last series at all?! All this and more gossip, news and feedback besides! As always, we'd love to hear from you! Get in touch by emailing the Campervan at feedback@thedoctorwhopodcast.com, Tweeting or Xing us, or jump on our Facebook Page or Group. Enjoy the show.

This week on the Roach Koach Podcast, Lorin and Matt welcome back Will Anderson of Hotline TNT to talk all things Nu-Metal as well as things Not Nu-Metal. Topics this episode include:-The new album Raspberry Moon is perfect for a variety of listening settings-Will on new Linkin Park-Lorin vs Ghosts yet again-What is the worst song?-A defense of 311-“Music is magic”-This or That Linkin Park songs with Will-Rippers for Roaches 2Take a listen!Check out Hotline TNT's 24 Hour Telethon on September 4th. Head to https://assnup.com/ for details, tour dates, and more! Exclusive episodes and more on the Roach Koach Patreon. The Crack, the Butt Rock Bracket is coming! Subscribe today! Rate and review Roach Koach on iTunes and Spotify! We'd appreciate it! Questions about the show? Have album recommendations? Just want to say hi? We'd love to hear from you! Contact the show @RoachKoach on Twitter, Roach Koach on Facebook , Roach Koach on Instagram, or send an email to RoachKoachPodcast at Gmail. Follow the show on Youtube and TikTok! Find every episode of Roach Koach and order your Roach Koach T-shirt at Roach Koach dot com.

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This week on the Roach Koach Podcast it's time for Who's Tweeting! Lorin and Matt go over questions, episode feedback, Roachamendations and more. Topics this episode include:-The Crack-Youtube Record-Time Magazine's Podcast List-The Road to 500 Episodes-System of a Down, finally Nu-Metal?-Who's in those DMs with Scars of Life and Monkey Puzzle-The Mortal Kombat 2 trailer-Who's Emailing-Who's Got ScienceTake a listen!Exclusive episodes and more on the Roach Koach Patreon. New episodes of the Pact every month. Subscribe today! Rate and review Roach Koach on iTunes and Spotify! We'd appreciate it! Questions about the show? Have album recommendations? Just want to say hi? We'd love to hear from you! Contact the show @RoachKoach on Twitter, Roach Koach on Facebook , Roach Koach on Instagram, or send an email to RoachKoachPodcast at Gmail. Follow the show on Youtube and TikTok! Find every episode of Roach Koach and order your Roach Koach T-shirt at Roach Koach dot com.

They're back! And so are Brent and Ian! Join the dynamic duo (and Michele and James) as they bring you Episode 406 of THE Doctor Who Podcast! James and Michele (who else?!) celebrate the return of the Ninth Doctor and Rose Tyler in Snare by Tim Foley, the first in 12 episode run of new audios from Big Finish Productions. Brent and Ian then jump forward in time (at least in continuity terms) twelve months and revisit School Reunion - a pivotal episode featuring another landmark reunion, this time with the Tenth Doctor and Sarah Jane Smith! Along with feedback and a teensy bit of news, what more could you possibly ask for?! As always, we'd love to hear from you! Get in touch by emailing the Campervan at feedback@thedoctorwhopodcast.com, Tweeting or Xing us, or jump on our Facebook Page or Group. Enjoy the show. :-)

Large number of voters undecided in governor's race and about congressional redistricting, new poll finds Please Subscribe + Rate & Review Philip Teresi on KMJ wherever you listen! --- KMJ’s Philip Teresi is available on the KMJNOW app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever else you listen. --- Philip Teresi, Weekdays 2-6 PM Pacific News/Talk 580 & 105.9 KMJ DriveKMJ.com | Podcast | Facebook | X | Instagram --- Everything KMJ: kmjnow.com | Streaming | Podcasts | Facebook | X | Instagram See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Large number of voters undecided in governor's race and about congressional redistricting, new poll finds Please Subscribe + Rate & Review Philip Teresi on KMJ wherever you listen! --- KMJ’s Philip Teresi is available on the KMJNOW app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever else you listen. --- Philip Teresi, Weekdays 2-6 PM Pacific News/Talk 580 & 105.9 KMJ DriveKMJ.com | Podcast | Facebook | X | Instagram --- Everything KMJ: kmjnow.com | Streaming | Podcasts | Facebook | X | Instagram See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hour 1: Ike, Spike and Fritz play audio from Eagles center Cam Jurgens who says that people should stop tweeting about training camp stats.

Time Magazine's favorite podcasts, Traverse City stabbing, Eli Zaret stops by, Donald Trump polls, Ghislaine Maxwell gets deal, Happy Gilmore 2, American Airlines up in smoke, hot priests, NBA YoungBoy's 13th kid, and our new favorite influencer: 225. Eli Zaret drops by to discuss the struggling Detroit Tigers, the upcoming trade deadline, Pat Caputo vs the Tigers TV broadcast, Jason Benetti to the Detroit Lions pre-season. Alex Anzalone's contract, the 2016 Lions schedule, MLB Hall of Fame induction day, high praise for Ken Daniels and Mickey Redmond, hot WNBA sex, College Football shenanigans, Trump “fixing” college sports, Teddy Bridgewater in BS hot water, Georgia recruit Chace Calicut trouble, Eli vs gambling and more. Is the Right losing faith in Donald Trump? No. There's a new trade deal with the EU. Bradford James Gille stabbed a bunch of people in Traverse City. American Airlines had a boo boo this weekend and the luggage came first. Another dude made a ruckus on an easyJet flight in Europe. Jizzlaine Maxwell granted limited immunity. Rats out 100 people. Dan Bongino “will never be the same”. Letters to Epstein are out there. Another day, another new Epstein/Trump photo. Kevin Spacey pops off. William McNeil speaks out after his arrest video goes viral. Sometimes you just gotta beat a couple in Cincinnati. Tyler Boebert is in trouble and Lauren is downplaying the charges. Nice family. The Vatican has a new method to gain more followers… hot priests. Movies: Happy Gilmore 2 has mixed reviews. We loved it. The Fantastic Four: First Steps is too much Pedro Pascal. Freakier Friday unleashes a smoking hot Lindsay Lohan. Anthony Anderson was #MeToo'd and nobody remembers. But his creepy interview with Lindsay Lohan is making the rounds again. A 5th accuser comes out against Smokey Robinson. Diddy is Tweeting again. At least his kids are to promote a terrible song called Diddy Free. NBA YoungBoy has a lot of children. He was pardoned by Trump. Spinal Tap II: The End Continues drops their trailer. An interrupter is told she's old. 225 is the biggest loser possibly ever and we love him. Time Magazine names their Top 100 best podcasts. They leave off Joe Rogan and The Drew Lane Show. The Billy Joel documentary is 5 hours long… but really good. Don't forget to grab your bags during an airline emergency. Stephen Colbert needs a staff of 200+ to be a complete leftist late night show. Jay Leno weighs in on left-only late night. If you'd like to help support the show… consider subscribing to our YouTube Channel, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter (Drew Lane, Marc Fellhauer, Trudi Daniels, Jim Bentley and BranDon).

6:00 HOUR: Costa is tweeting about the Tigers on vacation, GregPom preseason college football rankings

This week on the Roach Koach Podcast it's all about Who's Tweeting, as Lorin and Matt go over all listener feedback, emails, Roachamendations and more! Topics this episode include:-Deftones are back!-New Amerakin Overdose!-The Dropout Kings return!-Who's this with Splitchain-Going through it with Filter-Who's Ubering-Send us your Been Ups!-Who's Recommending -And a word from the Indigo AngelTake a listen!Exclusive episodes and more on the Roach Koach Patreon. New episodes of the Pact every month. Subscribe today! Rate and review Roach Koach on iTunes and Spotify! We'd appreciate it! Questions about the show? Have album recommendations? Just want to say hi? We'd love to hear from you! Contact the show @RoachKoach on Twitter, Roach Koach on Facebook , Roach Koach on Instagram, or send an email to RoachKoachPodcast at Gmail. Follow the show on Youtube and TikTok! Find every episode of Roach Koach and order your Roach Koach T-shirt at Roach Koach dot com.

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 3667: Stepping away from his smartphone, Colin Wright reflects on how constant connectivity can subtly erode our ability to stay present and engaged with real-life moments. His insights encourage us to reconsider our relationship with technology, highlighting the value of balance between sharing experiences and fully living them. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://exilelifestyle.com/tweeting/ Quotes to ponder: “Sharing is great, but if you give away your life before taking the time to experience it yourself, you're missing out on everything.” “I was making myself ignorant, pushing all of that information out of my mind and into this tiny little device.” “Balance is so key to this. If you go completely off-grid, you miss out on some of the marvelous things that are happening in the interconnected space. If you go into full-phone-absorption mode, you miss out on the world around you.” Episode references: The Power of Now: https://www.amazon.com/Power-Now-Guide-Spiritual-Enlightenment/dp/1577314808 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 3667: Stepping away from his smartphone, Colin Wright reflects on how constant connectivity can subtly erode our ability to stay present and engaged with real-life moments. His insights encourage us to reconsider our relationship with technology, highlighting the value of balance between sharing experiences and fully living them. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://exilelifestyle.com/tweeting/ Quotes to ponder: “Sharing is great, but if you give away your life before taking the time to experience it yourself, you're missing out on everything.” “I was making myself ignorant, pushing all of that information out of my mind and into this tiny little device.” “Balance is so key to this. If you go completely off-grid, you miss out on some of the marvelous things that are happening in the interconnected space. If you go into full-phone-absorption mode, you miss out on the world around you.” Episode references: The Power of Now: https://www.amazon.com/Power-Now-Guide-Spiritual-Enlightenment/dp/1577314808 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 3667: Stepping away from his smartphone, Colin Wright reflects on how constant connectivity can subtly erode our ability to stay present and engaged with real-life moments. His insights encourage us to reconsider our relationship with technology, highlighting the value of balance between sharing experiences and fully living them. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://exilelifestyle.com/tweeting/ Quotes to ponder: “Sharing is great, but if you give away your life before taking the time to experience it yourself, you're missing out on everything.” “I was making myself ignorant, pushing all of that information out of my mind and into this tiny little device.” “Balance is so key to this. If you go completely off-grid, you miss out on some of the marvelous things that are happening in the interconnected space. If you go into full-phone-absorption mode, you miss out on the world around you.” Episode references: The Power of Now: https://www.amazon.com/Power-Now-Guide-Spiritual-Enlightenment/dp/1577314808 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week on the Roach Koach Podcast it's all about Who's Tweeting, as Lorin and Matt go over nu-news, listener emails and Roachamendations. Topics this episode include:-Boots on the ground at Fake Shark-The return of My Ticket Home-Korn goes analog-LB tease-Who's Feuding-Who's in those DMs-And Setting off the DeanTake a listen!Exclusive episodes and more on the Roach Koach Patreon. New episodes of the Pact every month. Subscribe today! Rate and review Roach Koach on iTunes! We'd appreciate it! Questions about the show? Have album recommendations? Just want to say hi? We'd love to hear from you! Contact the show @RoachKoach on Twitter, Roach Koach on Facebook , Roach Koach on Instagram, or send an email to RoachKoachPodcast at Gmail. Follow the show on Youtube and TikTok! Find every episode of Roach Koach and order your Roach Koach T-shirt at Roach Koach dot com.

The topic of this episode is, Why are legislators on social media?”We've all seen it, and if you haven't, well, you will soon enough. Social media posts by members of Congress. They are on Facebook, X.com (what used to be called Twitter), Bluesky, and the like. The average voter may be forgiven for wondering, “Why are these lawmakers hanging out online? Don't they have anything better to do?”To try to help us better understand what is going on here, I have Annelise Russell, Associate Professor of Public Policy at the University of Kentucky. Dr. Russell has been studying legislators' use of social media for years and is the author of Tweeting is Leading: How Senators Communicate and Represent in the Age of Twitter (Oxford, 2021). So who better to discuss this topic with us?Click here to read the full transcript.

Elon Musk Mocks Trump After 'Train Wreck' Jibe Please Subscribe + Rate & Review Philip Teresi on KMJ wherever you listen! --- KMJ’s Philip Teresi is available on the KMJNOW app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever else you listen. --- Philip Teresi, Weekdays 2-6 PM Pacific News/Talk 580 & 105.9 KMJ DriveKMJ.com | Podcast | Facebook | X | Instagram --- Everything KMJ: kmjnow.com | Streaming | Podcasts | Facebook | X | Instagram See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Elon Musk Mocks Trump After 'Train Wreck' Jibe Please Subscribe + Rate & Review Philip Teresi on KMJ wherever you listen! --- KMJ’s Philip Teresi is available on the KMJNOW app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever else you listen. --- Philip Teresi, Weekdays 2-6 PM Pacific News/Talk 580 & 105.9 KMJ DriveKMJ.com | Podcast | Facebook | X | Instagram --- Everything KMJ: kmjnow.com | Streaming | Podcasts | Facebook | X | Instagram See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week on the Roach Koach Podcast it's all about Who's Tweeting! Lorin and Matt go over your feedback, questions and nu-metal news. Topics this episode include:-Primer55 are back!-Boots on the ground at Sonic Temple-New Mudvayne?-Happy Birthday, Charles Mansion?-Horror Franchises-Nu-Metal Dreams-Avalon feedback (more no skips!)-And the Final Stupid F'N Matt's Nu-Core For Old HeadsTake a listen!Exclusive episodes and more on the Roach Koach Patreon. New episodes of the Pact every month. Subscribe today! Rate and review Roach Koach on iTunes! We'd appreciate it! Questions about the show? Have album recommendations? Just want to say hi? We'd love to hear from you! Contact the show @RoachKoach on Twitter, Roach Koach on Facebook , Roach Koach on Instagram, or send an email to RoachKoachPodcast at Gmail. Follow the show on Youtube and TikTok! Find every episode of Roach Koach and order your Roach Koach T-shirt at Roach Koach dot com.

Call Her Daddy Alex Cooper's abuse claims questioned, WATP Karl with Stuttering John & Woke Dad cringe, Trump warns Iran, R. Kelly's prison overdose, The Beach Boys abused Jan & Dean, and lesbians assaulted by a fart. Meghan Markle appeared on another podcast and remains annoying and elitist. A lesbian vs a fart… who ya got? A hangry 69-year-old was gunned down at In-N-Out Burger. Donald Trump issues a warning to Iran. He totally bailed on the G7 summit. New York Mayoral candidate Brad Lander vs I.C.E. This is great news for his candidacy. My Pillow Mike Lindell loses in court and owes $2.3M. The NAACP hates Donald Trump. The Sunset Strip is a dud now. R. Kelly overdosed on his own meds in prison. He claims people are trying to kill him. The jury in the Diddy trial had a movie day. Their choice of film: Freak Off Videos. Karen Read trial will thankfully conclude soon. Conor McGregor is beating on people in night clubs. Antonio Brown is in hiding, but Tweeting his ass off. OKC takes the lead in the NBA Finals over the Indiana Pacers. Shaq settles his FTX case, Tom Brady and others are fighting it. Karl Hamburger of WATP drops by to promote the upcoming live show at The Magic Bag, Stuttering John back in the spotlight, rip apart Alex Cooper's latest endeavor with Hulu, slam Paris Hilton in the process, push more Woke Dad at us and more. US Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem rushed to the hospital. Arnold Schwarzenegger didn't give Joy Behar the answer she wanted. Matthew Perry's doctor is screwed. Barbara Streisand can't remember nailing Warren Beatty. Just so you know, the little girl from Modern Family is bisexual. 3 nepo-babies releasing a song soon. Dhani Harrison gets snubbed. The Rolling Stones are looking to make another album. Jack White dropped a new video. Valerie Bertinelli won't go away. Jimmy Swaggart is going to die soon. The Beach Boys once hosted Jan & Dean to monstrous results. If you'd like to help support the show… consider subscribing to our YouTube Channel, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter (Drew Lane, Marc Fellhauer, Trudi Daniels, Jim Bentley and BranDon).

ABC reporter Terry Moran was suspended on Sunday for a rage-filled tweet about President Trump and Stephen Miller being "world-class haters." This followed liberal rage over Trump ordering the California National Guard to restore order over immigration protests in Los Angeles.

Helloooo! Welcome to our first episode in ages without an episode of Doctor Who to review! But fear not, James and Michele have oodles of audio files, letters, emails and Tweets from you all you lovely listeners. Nothing is off the table here, theories are discussed, applauded and rubbished! Although the latter are mainly James'..... Fear not - you have not lost the chance to have your say on a DWP - Episode 403 will be the last of our coverage of Series 2 where discussion will cover every episode and aspect of this latest series - and you can be on it! Audio feedback always gets priority (but keep it under two mins) but you can always get in touch by emailing the Campervan at feedback@thedoctorwhopodcast.com, Tweeting or Xing us, or by jumping on our Facebook Page or Group. Enjoy the show!

WOW! We are still reeling here at DWP headquarters. What was real and what was fiction?! WE STILL HAVE NO IDEA! Join the entire DWP crew (in the Campervan together for the first time EVAH) as James, Michele, Phil, Brent, Drew and Ian try to unpick the concluding instalment of this latest series of good ol' Doctor Who. Just what did they make of The Reality War?! And more importantly, what did YOU think?! Let us know! We start wrapping up our Series 2 coverage in Episode 402 - you have a chance to be on it! Audio feedback always gets priority (but keep it under two mins) but you can always get in touch by emailing the Campervan at feedback@thedoctorwhopodcast.com, Tweeting or Xing us, or by jumping on our Facebook Page or Group.

This week on the Roach Koach Podcast it's all about Who's Tweeting, as Lorin and Matt go over listener feedback, Roachamendations, Nu News and more. Topics this week include:-Who is going to David Draiman's wedding?-Who's Listing with the Nu-Metal Agenda-Sleep Token Pitchfork review-Hotline TNT recs Bleed-Dark New Day feedback-And Stupid F'N Matt's Nu-Core for Old HeadsTake a listen!Exclusive episodes and more on the Roach Koach Patreon. New episodes of the Pact every month. Subscribe today! Rate and review Roach Koach on iTunes! We'd appreciate it! Questions about the show? Have album recommendations? Just want to say hi? We'd love to hear from you! Contact the show @RoachKoach on Twitter, Roach Koach on Facebook , Roach Koach on Instagram, or send an email to RoachKoachPodcast at Gmail. Follow the show on Youtube and TikTok! Find every episode of Roach Koach and order your Roach Koach T-shirt at Roach Koach dot com.

Join Ian, Michele and James for (allegedly) a more considered review of the weekend's new episode of Doctor Who, Wish World. Once Ian and Michele have their say, the team turn their thoughts to the loose-ends and unanswered questions that have accumulated over the last two seasons - yes, it's the return of the Juicy Dangler section not seen on the DWP for many-a season! What did you think of Wish World? As always, we love hearing your views. Get in touch by emailing the Campervan at feedback@thedoctorwhopodcast.com, Tweeting or Xing us, or jump on our Facebook Page or Group. We will be back in Episode 401 to review the season finale, The Reality War. Given the episode itself is dropping on Saturday evening, our review will be online on Monday 2nd June. Enjoy the show!

Join Drew, Brent and James for their instant take on the penultimate episode of the current series of Doctor Who, Wish World. As always, we want to hear from you - what did you think? Let us know by emailing the Campervan at feedback@thedoctorwhopodcast.com, Tweeting or Xing us, or jump on our Facebook Page or Group! Ian and Michele will be back on Wednesday with Episode 400A, so make sure you keep an eye (or an ear) on your DWP feed! Enjoy the show.

Front Page, 15 Tush Push, 23 Charles McDonald Int, 35:45 Juan Soto - NYM

Oh My. That was The Interstellar Song Contest! What did you think of the latest Episode of Doctor Who?! Join James and Phil as they attempt to answer that very question! BE WARNED!! Spoilers are contained within! We discuss the Episode IN FULL! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! Do get in touch - you can reach the Campervan at feedback@thedoctorwhopodcast.com, Tweeting or Xing us, or by jumping on our Facebook Page or Group. Ian, Michele, Drew and Brent will be back in Episode 399A with a less excitable/panicky reaction on Wednesday - keep an ear on your feeds! Enjoy the show!

This week on the Roach Koach Podcast it's all about Who's Tweeting, going over Roach Ryder feedback, Roachamendations, emails, lists and more! Topics this week include:-Golden Globes Podcast Award-LD 50 25th Anniversary Tour-Who's Emailing with Seeded Crown-Underrated Nu-Metal Albums List-Korn's signature sound-Ask The Dean Nu-Metal Wedding Day Playlist-And Stupid F'N Matt's Nu-Core for Old HeadsTake a listen!Exclusive episodes and more on the Roach Koach Patreon. New episodes of the Pact every month. Subscribe today! Rate and review Roach Koach on iTunes! We'd appreciate it! Questions about the show? Have album recommendations? Just want to say hi? We'd love to hear from you! Contact the show @RoachKoach on Twitter, Roach Koach on Facebook , Roach Koach on Instagram, or send an email to RoachKoachPodcast at Gmail. Follow the show on Youtube and TikTok! Find every episode of Roach Koach and order your Roach Koach T-shirt at Roach Koach dot com.

Wow! How hairy was that?! Join James, Michele and Ian for their thoughts on this week's episode of Doctor Who, The Story and the Engine! As always, we want to hear from you - what did you think? Let us know by emailing the Campervan at feedback@thedoctorwhopodcast.com, Tweeting or Xing us, or jump on our Facebook Page or Group! Brent and Drew and Phil will be back on Wednesday with Episode 398A, so make sure you keep an eye (or an ear) on your DWP feed!

Join James, Michele and Brent for their instant(ish) reaction to episode four of the new series of Doctor Who, Lucky Day! But not before we go through the feedback you wonderful listeners have sent us about last week's episode, The Well. What did you think? Let us know by emailing the Campervan at feedback@thedoctorwhopodcast.com, Tweeting or Xing us, or jump on our Facebook Page or Group! No "more considered" episode this week, but Ian and James will be back on Sunday with a live recording from the bank of the River Thames after they've seen the 20th Anniversary screening of Dalek and Father's Day at The British Film Institute.

In this week's Interview Classic episode from five years ago (4-17-2020), PWTorch editor Wade Keller presents an interview with Mick Foley, a pioneer of early hardcore style wrestling and one of his generation's great promo artists. In this wide-ranging interview lasting well over an hour, Foley talks about these topics:His memories of the 1997 King of the Ring match with Triple H that was highlighted on Raw last week in the Triple H Career Moment Countdown.Advice Triple H gave him about his in-ring style as a babyface.His thoughts on empty arena wrestling, his memories of Backlash 1999's Boiler Room match with Big Show and his Halftime Heat match with The Rock (including a great story on helping Rock prepare by watching the Terry Funk vs. Jerry Lawler empty arena match).The parallels of The Fiend/Bray Wyatt and Mankind/Mick Foley characters with a critique of Bray's early work.How he feels about pro wrestling still happening despite the rest of entertainment shutting down due to the coronavirus.His thoughts on Vince McMahon and how he has changed over the years.Memories of working for Joe Pedicino and his Global Wrestling Federation.NXT starting a true developmental off-shoot where wrestlers can find their voice in a smaller setting.His son working behind the scenes in NXT and where his son's passion lies.Working with Big Show on his new Netflix sitcom series.Did Big Show have the career he deserved?His kinship with Chris Jericho and thoughts on the long-lasting career he's had.A great anecdote about Japanese wrestling culture, Jericho bulking up, and Jericho's approach to t-shirts in Japan.What prompted him to compliment Samoa Joe's color commentary on Twitter.His thoughts on MVP and the new team of Cedric Alexander & Ricochet.His opinion on Drew McIntyre as a centerpiece top act in WWE.His updated thoughts on the women's division in WWE including Becky Lynch.VIP AFTERSHOW TOPICS…Any interest in writing another wrestling book and the plot idea he has in mind.Mick's position on semi-colons and commas.Someone who betrayed his trust and how it changed his approach to interacting online.Which two or three wrestlers did he have the most fun working with.His thoughts on Undertaker breaking character and diving into social media and long-form interviews, in light of Mick's Hall of Fame speech comment about not wanting to live in a world where Undertaker is Tweeting.What he's doing to fill his time isolating himself during the coronavirus.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/wade-keller-pro-wrestling-podcast--3076978/support.

This week on the Roach Koach Podcast it's all about Who's Tweeting! Nu-News, Who's Listing and more. Topics this week include:-A late breaking DM-Who's Giving Feedback-David Dreamin-The Greatest Live Nu-Metal Performances of All Time-Lorin vs The Stones-Ask The Dean-And Stupid F'N Matt's Nu-Core For Old HeadsTake a listen!Exclusive episodes and more on the Roach Koach Patreon. New episodes of the Pact every month. Subscribe today! Rate and review Roach Koach on iTunes! We'd appreciate it! Questions about the show? Have album recommendations? Just want to say hi? We'd love to hear from you! Contact the show @RoachKoach on Twitter, Roach Koach on Facebook , Roach Koach on Instagram, or send an email to RoachKoachPodcast at Gmail. Follow the show on Youtube and TikTok! Find every episode of Roach Koach and order your Roach Koach T-shirt at Roach Koach dot com.

Join Brent, Michele and James for the Campervan's second trip around the Whoniverse this week for a more considered take on this week's episode of Doctor Who, The Well. Not to be defeated by his unavailability to record with the rest of the team this week, Phil drops by to give his thoughts too. So pull up a chair and join four hosts of the DWP talk about almost as many Kooky Theories!! As always, we want to hear from you - what did you think? Let us know by emailing the Campervan at feedback@thedoctorwhopodcast.com, Tweeting or Xing us, or jump on our Facebook Page or Group! We'll be back on Saturday to give you our instant reaction to Episode Four , Lucky Day. Enjoy the show!

Welcome to Season 3 of Texture Talks!

Join Ian, Phil and Drew in the Campervan as they talk about your feedback on Episode 1 (mostly cat-related) and review Episode 2 of the latest series of Doctor Who, Lux! What did you think? Let us know by emailing the Campervan at feedback@thedoctorwhopodcast.com, Tweeting or Xing us, or jump on our Facebook Page or Group! Michele and James will be back on Wednesday with Episode 395A, so make sure you keep an eye (or an ear) on your DWP feed! Enjoy the show.

This week on the Roach Koach Podcast it's all about Who's Tweeting, as Lorin and Matt go over Roach Rider feedback, Nu News, and so much more. Topics this episode include:-What are we doing this summer?-Matt blabbing on the Patreon-Taking It On the Chin-Shirt Report from Deftones in concert-Who's Recommending -Who's Emailing from Moscow-The Rant-And Stupid F'N Matt's Nu-Core For Old HeadsTake a listen!Exclusive episodes and more on the Roach Koach Patreon. New episodes of the Pact every month. Subscribe today! Rate and review Roach Koach on iTunes! We'd appreciate it! Questions about the show? Have album recommendations? Just want to say hi? We'd love to hear from you! Contact the show @RoachKoach on Twitter, Roach Koach on Facebook , Roach Koach on Instagram, or send an email to RoachKoachPodcast at Gmail. Follow the show on Youtube and TikTok! Find every episode of Roach Koach and order your Roach Koach T-shirt at Roach Koach dot com.

The Wendy's fast food chain made fun of Katy Perry's space flight, Tweeting, quote, "Can we send her back?" Then Kesha piled on by posting a picture of herself sipping from a Wendy's cup.

This week on the Roach Koach Podcast it's all about the most important awards show, the Heavy Music Awards! Lorin and Matt discuss every category, the long voting window, the continued presence of non-heavy bands among the nominees, and so much more! Take a listen!Exclusive episodes and more on the Roach Koach Patreon. New episodes of the Pact every month. Subscribe today! Rate and review Roach Koach on iTunes! We'd appreciate it! Questions about the show? Have album recommendations? Just want to say hi? We'd love to hear from you! Contact the show @RoachKoach on Twitter, Roach Koach on Facebook , Roach Koach on Instagram, or send an email to RoachKoachPodcast at Gmail. Follow the show on Youtube and TikTok! Find every episode of Roach Koach and order your Roach Koach T-shirt at Roach Koach dot com.

Adam and Dr. Drew open the show by addressing the recent controversy over Drew's comments about Amanda Bynes on Twitter. Later, they take calls on the addictive nature of Adderall, how to deal with a young child battling a terrible disease and how fertility treatments can impact pregnancy.

Bubbly is an understatement. She is bouncy, beautiful and ultimately driven by a love for her business. Her second child.  Listen as this Tuscola woman talks about working at the outlets, always wanting to be at work over school, following what she excelled at over what she envisioned for her future, scaling down the dream of a family of five to one, managing a home and business with a commuting husband, not liking to rely on others for help, the constant cycle of adjustments and caring and conversing over selling and the bottom line. Her raspy voice, love for talking and obvious zest for life made for a compelling and easy conversation. I'd like to thank this episode's sponsor Illini Pella Windows & Doors of Champaign. At 1001 N Country Fair in Champaign you'll find the brand synonymous with quality in windows and doors. Pella is one of America's most trusted names for replacement windows, entry doors and sliding patio doors. Visit their showroom on Country Fair Drive or call (217) 356-6474. Pellaofchampaign.com has all the information you need for planning. Thank you so much for listening! However your podcast host of choice allows, please positively: rate, review, comment and give all the stars! Don't forget to follow, subscribe, share and ring that notification bell so you know when the next episode drops! Also, search and follow hyperlocalscu on all social media. If I forgot anything or you need me, visit my website at HyperLocalsCU.com. Byee.

We are working with Amplify on the 2025 State of AI Engineering Survey to be presented at the AIE World's Fair in SF! Join the survey to shape the future of AI Eng!We first met Snipd over a year ago, and were immediately impressed by the design, but were doubtful about the behavior of snipping as the title behavior:Podcast apps are enormously sticky - Spotify spent almost $1b in podcast acquisitions and exclusive content just to get an 8% bump in market share among normies.However, after a disappointing Overcast 2.0 rewrite with no AI features in the last 3 years, I finally bit the bullet and switched to Snipd. It's 2025, your podcast app should be able to let you search transcripts of your podcasts. Snipd is the best implementation of this so far.And yet they keep shipping:What impressed us wasn't just how this tiny team of 4 was able to bootstrap a consumer AI app against massive titans and do so well; but also how seriously they think about learning through podcasts and improving retention of knowledge over time, aka “Duolingo for podcasts”. As an educational AI podcast, that's a mission we can get behind.Full Video PodFind us on YouTube! This was the first pod we've ever shot outdoors!Show Notes* How does Shazam work?* Flutter/FlutterFlow* wav2vec paper* Perplexity Online LLM* Google Search Grounding* Comparing Snipd transcription with our Bee episode* NIPS 2017 Flo Rida* Gustav Söderström - Background AudioTimestamps* [00:00:03] Takeaways from AI Engineer NYC* [00:00:17] Weather in New York.* [00:00:26] Swyx and Snipd.* [00:01:01] Kevin's AI summit experience.* [00:01:31] Zurich and AI.* [00:03:25] SigLIP authors join OpenAI.* [00:03:39] Zurich is very costly.* [00:04:06] The Snipd origin story.* [00:05:24] Introduction to machine learning.* [00:09:28] Snipd and user knowledge extraction.* [00:13:48] App's tech stack, Flutter, Python.* [00:15:11] How speakers are identified.* [00:18:29] The concept of "backgroundable" video.* [00:29:05] Voice cloning technology.* [00:31:03] Using AI agents.* [00:34:32] Snipd's future is multi-modal AI.* [00:36:37] Snipd and existing user behaviour.* [00:42:10] The app, summary, and timestamps.* [00:55:25] The future of AI and podcasting.* [1:14:55] Voice AITranscriptswyx [00:00:03]: Hey, I'm here in New York with Kevin Ben-Smith of Snipd. Welcome.Kevin [00:00:07]: Hi. Hi. Amazing to be here.swyx [00:00:09]: Yeah. This is our first ever, I think, outdoors podcast recording.Kevin [00:00:14]: It's quite a location for the first time, I have to say.swyx [00:00:18]: I was actually unsure because, you know, it's cold. It's like, I checked the temperature. It's like kind of one degree Celsius, but it's not that bad with the sun. No, it's quite nice. Yeah. Especially with our beautiful tea. With the tea. Yeah. Perfect. We're going to talk about Snips. I'm a Snips user. I'm a Snips user. I had to basically, you know, apart from Twitter, it's like the number one use app on my phone. Nice. When I wake up in the morning, I open Snips and I, you know, see what's new. And I think in terms of time spent or usage on my phone, I think it's number one or number two. Nice. Nice. So I really had to talk about it also because I think people interested in AI want to think about like, how can we, we're an AI podcast, we have to talk about the AI podcast app. But before we get there, we just finished. We just finished the AI Engineer Summit and you came for the two days. How was it?Kevin [00:01:07]: It was quite incredible. I mean, for me, the most valuable was just being in the same room with like-minded people who are building the future and who are seeing the future. You know, especially when it comes to AI agents, it's so often I have conversations with friends who are not in the AI world. And it's like so quickly it happens that you, it sounds like you're talking in science fiction. And it's just crazy talk. It was, you know, it's so refreshing to talk with so many other people who already see these things and yeah, be inspired then by them and not always feel like, like, okay, I think I'm just crazy. And like, this will never happen. It really is happening. And for me, it was very valuable. So day two, more relevant, more relevant for you than day one. Yeah. Day two. So day two was the engineering track. Yeah. That was definitely the most valuable for me. Like also as a producer. Practitioner myself, especially there were one or two talks that had to do with voice AI and AI agents with voice. Okay. So that was quite fascinating. Also spoke with the speakers afterwards. Yeah. And yeah, they were also very open and, and, you know, this, this sharing attitudes that's, I think in general, quite prevalent in the AI community. I also learned a lot, like really practical things that I can now take away with me. Yeah.swyx [00:02:25]: I mean, on my side, I, I think I watched only like half of the talks. Cause I was running around and I think people saw me like towards the end, I was kind of collapsing. I was on the floor, like, uh, towards the end because I, I needed to get, to get a rest, but yeah, I'm excited to watch the voice AI talks myself.Kevin [00:02:43]: Yeah. Yeah. Do that. And I mean, from my side, thanks a lot for organizing this conference for bringing everyone together. Do you have anything like this in Switzerland? The short answer is no. Um, I mean, I have to say the AI community in, especially Zurich, where. Yeah. Where we're, where we're based. Yeah. It is quite good. And it's growing, uh, especially driven by ETH, the, the technical university there and all of the big companies, they have AI teams there. Google, like Google has the biggest tech hub outside of the U S in Zurich. Yeah. Facebook is doing a lot in reality labs. Uh, Apple has a secret AI team, open AI and then SwapBit just announced that they're coming to Zurich. Yeah. Um, so there's a lot happening. Yeah.swyx [00:03:23]: So, yeah, uh, I think the most recent notable move, I think the entire vision team from Google. Uh, Lucas buyer, um, and, and all the other authors of Siglip left Google to join open AI, which I thought was like, it's like a big move for a whole team to move all at once at the same time. So I've been to Zurich and it just feels expensive. Like it's a great city. Yeah. It's great university, but I don't see it as like a business hub. Is it a business hub? I guess it is. Right.Kevin [00:03:51]: Like it's kind of, well, historically it's, uh, it's a finance hub, finance hub. Yeah. I mean, there are some, some large banks there, right? Especially UBS, uh, the, the largest wealth manager in the world, but it's really becoming more of a tech hub now with all of the big, uh, tech companies there.swyx [00:04:08]: I guess. Yeah. Yeah. And, but we, and research wise, it's all ETH. Yeah. There's some other things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.Kevin [00:04:13]: It's all driven by ETH. And then, uh, it's sister university EPFL, which is in Lausanne. Okay. Um, which they're also doing a lot, but, uh, it's, it's, it's really ETH. Uh, and otherwise, no, I mean, it's a beautiful, really beautiful city. I can recommend. To anyone. To come, uh, visit Zurich, uh, uh, let me know, happy to show you around and of course, you know, you, you have the nature so close, you have the mountains so close, you have so, so beautiful lakes. Yeah. Um, I think that's what makes it such a livable city. Yeah.swyx [00:04:42]: Um, and the cost is not, it's not cheap, but I mean, we're in New York city right now and, uh, I don't know, I paid $8 for a coffee this morning, so, uh, the coffee is cheaper in Zurich than the New York city. Okay. Okay. Let's talk about Snipt. What is Snipt and, you know, then we'll talk about your origin story, but I just, let's, let's get a crisp, what is Snipt? Yeah.Kevin [00:05:03]: I always see two definitions of Snipt, so I'll give you one really simple, straightforward one, and then a second more nuanced, um, which I think will be valuable for the rest of our conversation. So the most simple one is just to say, look, we're an AI powered podcast app. So if you listen to podcasts, we're now providing this AI enhanced experience. But if you look at the more nuanced, uh, podcast. Uh, perspective, it's actually, we, we've have a very big focus on people who like your audience who listened to podcasts to learn something new. Like your audience, you want, they want to learn about AI, what's happening, what's, what's, what's the latest research, what's going on. And we want to provide a, a spoken audio platform where you can do that most effectively. And AI is basically the way that we can achieve that. Yeah.swyx [00:05:53]: Means to an end. Yeah, exactly. When you started. Was it always meant to be AI or is it, was it more about the social sharing?Kevin [00:05:59]: So the first version that we ever released was like three and a half years ago. Okay. Yeah. So this was before ChatGPT. Before Whisper. Yeah. Before Whisper. Yeah. So I think a lot of the features that we now have in the app, they weren't really possible yet back then. But we already from the beginning, we always had the focus on knowledge. That's the reason why, you know, we in our team, why we listen to podcasts, but we did have a bit of a different approach. Like the idea in the very beginning was, so the name is Snips and you can create these, what we call Snips, which is basically a small snippet, like a clip from a, from a podcast. And we did envision sort of like a, like a social TikTok platform where some people would listen to full episodes and they would snip certain, like the best parts of it. And they would post that in a feed and other users would consume this feed of Snips. And use that as a discovery tool or just as a means to an end. And yeah, so you would have both people who create Snips and people who listen to Snips. So our big hypothesis in the beginning was, you know, it will be easy to get people to listen to these Snips, but super difficult to actually get them to create them. So we focused a lot of, a lot of our effort on making it as seamless and easy as possible to create a Snip. Yeah.swyx [00:07:17]: It's similar to TikTok. You need CapCut for there to be videos on TikTok. Exactly.Kevin [00:07:23]: And so for, for Snips, basically whenever you hear an amazing insight, a great moment, you can just triple tap your headphones. And our AI actually then saves the moment that you just listened to and summarizes it to create a note. And this is then basically a Snip. So yeah, we built, we built all of this, launched it. And what we found out was basically the exact opposite. So we saw that people use the Snips to discover podcasts, but they really, you know, they don't. You know, really love listening to long form podcasts, but they were creating Snips like crazy. And this was, this was definitely one of these aha moments when we realized like, hey, we should be really doubling down on the knowledge of learning of, yeah, helping you learn most effectively and helping you capture the knowledge that you listen to and actually do something with it. Because this is in general, you know, we, we live in this world where there's so much content and we consume and consume and consume. And it's so easy to just at the end of the podcast. You just start listening to the next podcast. And five minutes later, you've forgotten everything. 90%, 99% of what you've actually just learned. Yeah.swyx [00:08:31]: You don't know this, but, and most people don't know this, but this is my fourth podcast. My third podcast was a personal mixtape podcast where I Snipped manually sections of podcasts that I liked and added my own commentary on top of them and published them as small episodes. Nice. So those would be maybe five to 10 minute Snips. Yeah. And then I added something that I thought was a good story or like a good insight. And then I added my own commentary and published it as a separate podcast. It's cool. Is that still live? It's still live, but it's not active, but you can go back and find it. If you're, if, if you're curious enough, you'll see it. Nice. Yeah. You have to show me later. It was so manual because basically what my process would be, I hear something interesting. I note down the timestamp and I note down the URL of the podcast. I used to use Overcast. So it would just link to the Overcast page. And then. Put in my note taking app, go home. Whenever I feel like publishing, I will take one of those things and then download the MP3, clip out the MP3 and record my intro, outro and then publish it as a, as a podcast. But now Snips, I mean, I can just kind of double click or triple tap.Kevin [00:09:39]: I mean, those are very similar stories to what we hear from our users. You know, it's, it's normal that you're doing, you're doing something else while you're listening to a podcast. Yeah. A lot of our users, they're driving, they're working out, walking their dog. So in those moments when you hear something amazing, it's difficult to just write them down or, you know, you have to take out your phone. Some people take a screenshot, write down a timestamp, and then later on you have to go back and try to find it again. Of course you can't find it anymore because there's no search. There's no command F. And, um, these, these were all of the issues that, that, that we encountered also ourselves as users. And given that our background was in AI, we realized like, wait, hey, this is. This should not be the case. Like podcast apps today, they're still, they're basically repurposed music players, but we actually look at podcasts as one of the largest sources of knowledge in the world. And once you have that different angle of looking at it together with everything that AI is now enabling, you realize like, hey, this is not the way that we, that podcast apps should be. Yeah.swyx [00:10:41]: Yeah. I agree. You mentioned something that you said your background is in AI. Well, first of all, who's the team and what do you mean your background is in AI?Kevin [00:10:48]: Those are two very different things. I'm going to ask some questions. Yeah. Um, maybe starting with, with my backstory. Yeah. My backstory actually goes back, like, let's say 12 years ago or something like that. I moved to Zurich to study at ETH and actually I studied something completely different. I studied mathematics and economics basically with this specialization for quant finance. Same. Okay. Wow. All right. So yeah. And then as you know, all of these mathematical models for, um, asset pricing, derivative pricing, quantitative trading. And for me, the thing that, that fascinates me the most was the mathematical modeling behind it. Uh, mathematics, uh, statistics, but I was never really that passionate about the finance side of things.swyx [00:11:32]: Oh really? Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, we're different there.Kevin [00:11:36]: I mean, one just, let's say symptom that I noticed now, like, like looking back during that time. Yeah. I think I never read an academic paper about the subject in my free time. And then it was towards the end of my studies. I was already working for a big bank. One of my best friends, he comes to me and says, Hey, I just took this course. You have to, you have to do this. You have to take this lecture. Okay. And I'm like, what, what, what is it about? It's called machine learning and I'm like, what, what, what kind of stupid name is that? Uh, so you sent me the slides and like over a weekend I went through all of the slides and I just, I just knew like freaking hell. Like this is it. I'm, I'm in love. Wow. Yeah. Okay. And that was then over the course of the next, I think like 12 months, I just really got into it. Started reading all about it, like reading blog posts, starting building my own models.swyx [00:12:26]: Was this course by a famous person, famous university? Was it like the Andrew Wayne Coursera thing? No.Kevin [00:12:31]: So this was a ETH course. So a professor at ETH. Did he teach in English by the way? Yeah. Okay.swyx [00:12:37]: So these slides are somewhere available. Yeah. Definitely. I mean, now they're quite outdated. Yeah. Sure. Well, I think, you know, reflecting on the finance thing for a bit. So I, I was, used to be a trader, uh, sell side and buy side. I was options trader first and then I was more like a quantitative hedge fund analyst. We never really use machine learning. It was more like a little bit of statistical modeling, but really like you, you fit, you know, your regression.Kevin [00:13:03]: No, I mean, that's, that's what it is. And, uh, or you, you solve partial differential equations and have then numerical methods to, to, to solve these. That's, that's for you. That's your degree. And that's, that's not really what you do at work. Right. Unless, well, I don't know what you do at work. In my job. No, no, we weren't solving the partial differential. Yeah.swyx [00:13:18]: You learn all this in school and then you don't use it.Kevin [00:13:20]: I mean, we, we, well, let's put it like that. Um, in some things, yeah, I mean, I did code algorithms that would do it, but it was basically like, it was the most basic algorithms and then you just like slightly improve them a little bit. Like you just tweak them here and there. Yeah. It wasn't like starting from scratch, like, Oh, here's this new partial differential equation. How do we know?swyx [00:13:43]: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's real life, right? Most, most of it's kind of boring or you're, you're using established things because they're established because, uh, they tackle the most important topics. Um, yeah. Portfolio management was more interesting for me. Um, and, uh, we, we were sort of the first to combine like social data with, with quantitative trading. And I think, uh, I think now it's very common, but, um, yeah. Anyway, then you, you went, you went deep on machine learning and then what? You quit your job? Yeah. Yeah. Wow.Kevin [00:14:12]: I quit my job because, uh, um, I mean, I started using it at the bank as well. Like try, like, you know, I like desperately tried to find any kind of excuse to like use it here or there, but it just was clear to me, like, no, if I want to do this, um, like I just have to like make a real cut. So I quit my job and joined an early stage, uh, tech startup in Zurich where then built up the AI team over five years. Wow. Yeah. So yeah, we built various machine learning, uh, things for, for banks from like models for, for sales teams to identify which clients like which product to sell to them and with what reasons all the way to, we did a lot, a lot with bank transactions. One of the actually most fun projects for me was we had an, an NLP model that would take the booking text of a transaction, like a credit card transaction and pretty fired. Yeah. Because it had all of these, you know, like numbers in there and abbreviations and whatnot. And sometimes you look at it like, what, what is this? And it was just, you know, it would just change it to, I don't know, CVS. Yeah.swyx [00:15:15]: Yeah. But I mean, would you have hallucinations?Kevin [00:15:17]: No, no, no. The way that everything was set up, it wasn't like, it wasn't yet fully end to end generative, uh, neural network as what you would use today. Okay.swyx [00:15:30]: Awesome. And then when did you go like full time on Snips? Yeah.Kevin [00:15:33]: So basically that was, that was afterwards. I mean, how that started was the friend of mine who got me into machine learning, uh, him and I, uh, like he also got me interested into startups. He's had a big impact on my life. And the two of us were just a jam on, on like ideas for startups every now and then. And his background was also in AI data science. And we had a couple of ideas, but given that we were working full times, we were thinking about, uh, so we participated in Hack Zurich. That's, uh, Europe's biggest hackathon, um, or at least was at the time. And we said, Hey, this is just a weekend. Let's just try out an idea, like hack something together and see how it works. And the idea was that we'd be able to search through podcast episodes, like within a podcast. Yeah. So we did that. Long story short, uh, we managed to do it like to build something that we realized, Hey, this actually works. You can, you can find things again in podcasts. We had like a natural language search and we pitched it on stage. And we actually won the hackathon, which was cool. I mean, we, we also, I think we had a good, um, like a good, good pitch or a good example. So we, we used the famous Joe Rogan episode with Elon Musk where Elon Musk smokes a joint. Okay. Um, it's like a two and a half hour episode. So we were on stage and then we just searched for like smoking weed and it would find that exact moment. It will play it. And it just like, come on with Elon Musk, just like smoking. Oh, so it was video as well? No, it was actually completely based on audio. But we did have the video for the presentation. Yeah. Which had a, had of course an amazing effect. Yeah. Like this gave us a lot of activation energy, but it wasn't actually about winning the hackathon. Yeah. But the interesting thing that happened was after we pitched on stage, several of the other participants, like a lot of them came up to us and started saying like, Hey, can I use this? Like I have this issue. And like some also came up and told us about other problems that they have, like very adjacent to this with a podcast. Where's like, like this. Like, could, could I use this for that as well? And that was basically the, the moment where I realized, Hey, it's actually not just us who are having these issues with, with podcasts and getting to the, making the most out of this knowledge. Yeah. The other people. Yeah. That was now, I guess like four years ago or something like that. And then, yeah, we decided to quit our jobs and start, start this whole snip thing. Yeah. How big is the team now? We're just four people. Yeah. Just four people. Yeah. Like four. We're all technical. Yeah. Basically two on the, the backend side. So one of my co-founders is this person who got me into machine learning and startups. And we won the hackathon together. So we have two people for the backend side with the AI and all of the other backend things. And two for the front end side, building the app.swyx [00:18:18]: Which is mostly Android and iOS. Yeah.Kevin [00:18:21]: It's iOS and Android. We also have a watch app for, for Apple, but yeah, it's mostly iOS. Yeah.swyx [00:18:27]: The watch thing, it was very funny because in the, in the Latent Space discord, you know, most of us have been slowly adopting snips. You came to me like a year ago and you introduced snip to me. I was like, I don't know. I'm, you know, I'm very sticky to overcast and then slowly we switch. Why watch?Kevin [00:18:43]: So it goes back to a lot of our users, they do something else while, while listening to a podcast, right? Yeah. And one of the, us giving them the ability to then capture this knowledge, even though they're doing something else at the same time is one of the killer features. Yeah. Maybe I can actually, maybe at some point I should maybe give a bit more of an overview of what the, all of the features that we have. Sure. So this is one of the killer features and for one big use case that people use this for is for running. Yeah. So if you're a big runner, a big jogger or cycling, like really, really cycling competitively and a lot of the people, they don't want to take their phone with them when they go running. So you load everything onto the watch. So you can download episodes. I mean, if you, if you have an Apple watch that has internet access, like with a SIM card, you can also directly stream. That's also possible. Yeah. So of course it's a, it's basically very limited to just listening and snipping. And then you can see all of your snips later on your phone. Let me tell you this error I just got.swyx [00:19:47]: Error playing episode. Substack, the host of this podcast, does not allow this podcast to be played on an Apple watch. Yeah.Kevin [00:19:52]: That's a very beautiful thing. So we found out that all of the podcasts hosted on Substack, you cannot play them on an Apple watch. Why is this restriction? What? Like, don't ask me. We try to reach out to Substack. We try to reach out to some of the bigger podcasters who are hosting the podcast on Substack to also let them know. Substack doesn't seem to care. This is not specific to our app. You can also check out the Apple podcast app. Yeah. It's the same problem. It's just that we actually have identified it. And we tell the user what's going on.swyx [00:20:25]: I would say we host our podcast on Substack, but they're not very serious about their podcasting tools. I've told them before, I've been very upfront with them. So I don't feel like I'm shitting on them in any way. And it's kind of sad because otherwise it's a perfect creative platform. But the way that they treat podcasting as an afterthought, I think it's really disappointing.Kevin [00:20:45]: Maybe given that you mentioned all these features, maybe I can give a bit of a better overview of the features that we have. Let's do that. Let's do that. So I think we're mostly in our minds. Maybe for some of the listeners.swyx [00:20:55]: I mean, I'll tell you my version. Yeah. They can correct me, right? So first of all, I think the main job is for it to be a podcast listening app. It should be basically a complete superset of what you normally get on Overcast or Apple Podcasts or anything like that. You pull your show list from ListenNotes. How do you find shows? You've got to type in anything and you find them, right?Kevin [00:21:18]: Yeah. We have a search engine that is powered by ListenNotes. Yeah. But I mean, in the meantime, we have a huge database of like 99% of all podcasts out there ourselves. Yeah.swyx [00:21:27]: What I noticed, the default experience is you do not auto-download shows. And that's one very big difference for you guys versus other apps, where like, you know, if I'm subscribed to a thing, it auto-downloads and I already have the MP3 downloaded overnight. For me, I have to actively put it onto my queue, then it auto-downloads. And actually, I initially didn't like that. I think I maybe told you that I was like, oh, it's like a feature that I don't like. Like, because it means that I have to choose to listen to it in order to download and not to... It's like opt-in. There's a difference between opt-in and opt-out. So I opt-in to every episode that I listen to. And then, like, you know, you open it and depends on whether or not you have the AI stuff enabled. But the default experience is no AI stuff enabled. You can listen to it. You can see the snips, the number of snips and where people snip during the episode, which roughly correlates to interest level. And obviously, you can snip there. I think that's the default experience. I think snipping is really cool. Like, I use it to share a lot on Discord. I think we have tons and tons of just people sharing snips and stuff. Tweeting stuff is also like a nice, pleasant experience. But like the real features come when you actually turn on the AI stuff. And so the reason I got snipped, because I got fed up with Overcast not implementing any AI features at all. Instead, they spent two years rewriting their app to be a little bit faster. And I'm like, like, it's 2025. I should have a podcast that has transcripts that I can search. Very, very basic thing. Overcast will basically never have it.Kevin [00:22:49]: Yeah, I think that was a good, like, basic overview. Maybe I can add a bit to it with the AI features that we have. So one thing that we do every time a new podcast comes out, we transcribe the episode. We do speaker diarization. We identify the speaker names. Each guest, we extract a mini bio of the guest, try to find a picture of the guest online, add it. We break the podcast down into chapters, as in AI generated chapters. That one. That one's very handy. With a quick description per title and quick description per each chapter. We identify all books that get mentioned on a podcast. You can tell I don't use that one. It depends on the podcast. There are some podcasts where the guests often recommend like an amazing book. So later on, you can you can find that again.swyx [00:23:42]: So you literally search for the word book or I just read blah, blah, blah.Kevin [00:23:46]: No, I mean, it's all LLM based. Yeah. So basically, we have we have an LLM that goes through the entire transcript and identifies if a user mentions a book, then we use perplexity API together with various other LLM orchestration to go out there on the Internet, find everything that there is to know about the book, find the cover, find who or what the author is, get a quick description of it for the author. We then check on which other episodes the author appeared on.swyx [00:24:15]: Yeah, that is killer.Kevin [00:24:17]: Because that for me, if. If there's an interesting book, the first thing I do is I actually listen to a podcast episode with a with a writer because he usually gives a really great overview already on a podcast.swyx [00:24:28]: Sometimes the podcast is with the person as a guest. Sometimes his podcast is about the person without him there. Do you pick up both?Kevin [00:24:37]: So, yes, we pick up both in like our latest models. But actually what we show you in the app, the goal is to currently only show you the guest to separate that. In the future, we want to show the other things more.swyx [00:24:47]: For what it's worth, I don't mind. Yeah, I don't think like if I like if I like somebody, I'll just learn about them regardless of whether they're there or not.Kevin [00:24:55]: Yeah, I mean, yes and no. We we we have seen there are some personalities where this can break down. So, for example, the first version that we released with this feature, it picked up much more often a person, even if it was not a guest. Yeah. For example, the best examples for me is Sam Altman and Elon Musk. Like they're just mentioned on every second podcast and it has like they're not on there. And if you're interested in it, you can go to Elon Musk. And actually like learning from them. Yeah, I see. And yeah, we updated our our algorithms, improved that a lot. And now it's gotten much better to only pick it up if they're a guest. And yeah, so this this is maybe to come back to the features, two more important features like we have the ability to chat with an episode. Yes. Of course, you can do the old style of searching through a transcript with a keyword search. But I think for me, this is this is how you used to do search and extracting knowledge in the in the past. Old school. And the A.I. Web. Way is is basically an LLM. So you can ask the LLM, hey, when do they talk about topic X? If you're interested in only a certain part of the episode, you can ask them for four to give a quick overview of the episode. Key takeaways afterwards also to create a note for you. So this is really like very open, open ended. And yeah. And then finally, the snipping feature that we mentioned just to reiterate. Yeah. I mean, here the the feature is that whenever you hear an amazing idea, you can trip. It's up your headphones or click a button in the app and the A.I. summarizes the insight you just heard and saves that together with the original transcript and audio in your knowledge library. I also noticed that you you skip dynamic content. So dynamic content, we do not skip it automatically. Oh, sorry. You detect. But we detect it. Yeah. I mean, that's one of the thing that most people don't don't actually know that like the way that ads get inserted into podcasts or into most podcasts is actually that every time you listen. To a podcast, you actually get access to a different audio file and on the server, a different ad is inserted into the MP3 file automatically. Yeah. Based on IP. Exactly. And that's what that means is if we transcribe an episode and have a transcript with timestamps like words, word specific timestamps, if you suddenly get a different audio file, like the whole time says I messed up and that's like a huge issue. And for that, we actually had to build another algorithm that would dynamically on the floor. I re sync the audio that you're listening to the transcript that we have. Yeah. Which is a fascinating problem in and of itself.swyx [00:27:24]: You sync by matching up the sound waves? Or like, or do you sync by matching up words like you basically do partial transcription?Kevin [00:27:33]: We are not matching up words. It's happening on the basically a bytes level matching. Yeah. Okay.swyx [00:27:40]: It relies on this. It relies on the exact match at some point.Kevin [00:27:46]: So it's actually. We're actually not doing exact matches, but we're doing fuzzy matches to identify the moment. It's basically, we basically built Shazam for podcasts. Just as a little side project to solve this issue.swyx [00:28:02]: Actually, fun fact, apparently the Shazam algorithm is open. They published the paper, it's talked about it. I haven't really dived into the paper. I thought it was kind of interesting that basically no one else has built Shazam.Kevin [00:28:16]: Yeah, I mean, well, the one thing is the algorithm. If you now talk about Shazam, the other thing is also having the database behind it and having the user mindset that if they have this problem, they come to you, right?swyx [00:28:29]: Yeah, I'm very interested in the tech stack. There's a big data pipeline. Could you share what is the tech stack?Kevin [00:28:35]: What are the most interesting or challenging pieces of it? So the general tech stack is our entire backend is, or 90% of our backend is written in Python. Okay. Hosting everything on Google Cloud Platform. And our front end is written with, well, we're using the Flutter framework. So it's written in Dart and then compiled natively. So we have one code base that handles both Android and iOS. You think that was a good decision? It's something that a lot of people are exploring. So up until now, yes. Okay. Look, it has its pros and cons. Some of the, you know, for example, earlier, I mentioned we have a Apple Watch app. Yeah. I mean, there's no Flutter for that, right? So that you build native. And then of course you have to sort of like sync these things together. I mean, I'm not the front end engineer, so I'm not just relaying this information, but our front end engineers are very happy with it. It's enabled us to be quite fast and be on both platforms from the very beginning. And when I talk with people and they hear that we are using Flutter, usually they think like, ah, it's not performant. It's super junk, janky and everything. And then they use it. They use our app and they're always super surprised. Or if they've already used our app, I couldn't tell them. They're like, what? Yeah. Um, so there is actually a lot that you can do with it.swyx [00:29:51]: The danger, the concern, there's a few concerns, right? One, it's Google. So when were they, when are they going to abandon it? Two, you know, they're optimized for Android first. So iOS is like a second, second thought, or like you can feel that it is not a native iOS app. Uh, but you guys put a lot of care into it. And then maybe three, from my point of view, JavaScript, as a JavaScript guy, React Native was supposed to be there. And I think that it hasn't really fulfilled that dream. Um, maybe Expo is trying to do that, but, um, again, it is not, does not feel as productive as Flutter. And I've, I spent a week on Flutter and dot, and I'm an investor in Flutter flow, which is the local, uh, Flutter, Flutter startup. That's doing very, very well. I think a lot of people are still Flutter skeptics. Yeah. Wait. So are you moving away from Flutter?Kevin [00:30:41]: I don't know. We don't have plans to do that. Yeah.swyx [00:30:43]: You're just saying about that. What? Yeah. Watch out. Okay. Let's go back to the stack.Kevin [00:30:47]: You know, that was just to give you a bit of an overview. I think the more interesting things are, of course, on the AI side. So we, like, as I mentioned earlier, when we started out, it was before chat GPT for the chat GPT moment before there was the GPT 3.5 turbo, uh, API. So in the beginning, we actually were running everything ourselves, open source models, try to fine tune them. They worked. There was us, but let's, let's be honest. They weren't. What was the sort of? Before Whisper, the transcription. Yeah, we were using wave to work like, um, there was a Google one, right? No, it was a Facebook, Facebook one. That was actually one of the papers. Like when that came out for me, that was one of the reasons why I said we, we should try something to start a startup in the audio space. For me, it was a bit like before that I had been following the NLP space, uh, quite closely. And as, as I mentioned earlier, we, we did some stuff at the startup as well, that I was working up. But before, and wave to work was the first paper that I had at least seen where the whole transformer architecture moved over to audio and bit more general way of saying it is like, it was the first time that I saw the transformer architecture being applied to continuous data instead of discrete tokens. Okay. And it worked amazingly. Ah, and like the transformer architecture plus self-supervised learning, like these two things moved over. And then for me, it was like, Hey, this is now going to take off similarly. It's the text space has taken off. And with these two things in place, even if some features that we want to build are not possible yet, they will be possible in the near term, uh, with this, uh, trajectory. So that was a little side, side note. No, it's in the meantime. Yeah. We're using whisper. We're still hosting some of the models ourselves. So for example, the whole transcription speaker diarization pipeline, uh,swyx [00:32:38]: You need it to be as cheap as possible.Kevin [00:32:40]: Yeah, exactly. I mean, we're doing this at scale where we have a lot of audio.swyx [00:32:44]: We're what numbers can you disclose? Like what, what are just to give people an idea because it's a lot. So we have more than a million podcasts that we've already processed when you say a million. So processing is basically, you have some kind of list of podcasts that you will auto process and others where a paying pay member can choose to press the button and transcribe it. Right. Is that the rough idea? Yeah, exactly.Kevin [00:33:08]: Yeah. And if, when you press that button or we also transcribe it. Yeah. So first we do the, we do the transcription. We do the. The, the speaker diarization. So basically you identify speech blocks that belong to the same speaker. This is then all orchestrated within, within LLM to identify which speech speech block belongs to which speaker together with, you know, we identify, as I mentioned earlier, we identify the guest name and the bio. So all of that comes together with an LLM to actually then assign assigned speaker names to, to each block. Yeah. And then most of the rest of the, the pipeline we've now used, we've now migrated to LLM. So we use mainly open AI, Google models, so the Gemini models and the open AI models, and we use some perplexity basically for those things where we need, where we need web search. Yeah. That's something I'm still hoping, especially open AI will also provide us an API. Oh, why? Well, basically for us as a consumer, the more providers there are.swyx [00:34:07]: The more downtime.Kevin [00:34:08]: The more competition and it will lead to better, better results. And, um, lower costs over time. I don't, I don't see perplexity as expensive. If you use the web search, the price is like $5 per a thousand queries. Okay. Which is affordable. But, uh, if you compare that to just a normal LLM call, um, it's, it's, uh, much more expensive. Have you tried Exa? We've, uh, looked into it, but we haven't really tried it. Um, I mean, we, we started with perplexity and, uh, it works, it works well. And if I remember. Correctly, Exa is also a bit more expensive.swyx [00:34:45]: I don't know. I don't know. They seem to focus on the search thing as a search API, whereas perplexity, maybe more consumer-y business that is higher, higher margin. Like I'll put it like perplexity is trying to be a product, Exa is trying to be infrastructure. Yeah. So that, that'll be my distinction there. And then the other thing I will mention is Google has a search grounding feature. Yeah. Which you, which you might want. Yeah.Kevin [00:35:07]: Yeah. We've, uh, we've also tried that out. Um, not as good. So we, we didn't, we didn't go into. Too much detail in like really comparing it, like quality wise, because we actually already had the perplexity one and it, and it's, and it's working. Yeah. Um, I think also there, the price is actually higher than perplexity. Yeah. Really? Yeah.swyx [00:35:26]: Google should cut their prices.Kevin [00:35:29]: Maybe it was the same price. I don't want to say something incorrect, but it wasn't cheaper. It wasn't like compelling. And then, then there was no reason to switch. So, I mean, maybe like in general, like for us, given that we do work with a lot of content, price is actually something that we do look at. Like for us, it's not just about taking the best model for every task, but it's really getting the best, like identifying what kind of intelligence level you need and then getting the best price for that to be able to really scale this and, and provide us, um, yeah, let our users use these features with as many podcasts as possible. Yeah.swyx [00:36:03]: I wanted to double, double click on diarization. Yeah. Uh, it's something that I don't think people do very well. So you know, I'm, I'm a, I'm a B user. I don't have it right now. And, and they were supposed to speak, but they dropped out last minute. Um, but, uh, we've had them on the podcast before and it's not great yet. Do you use just PI Anode, the default stuff, or do you find any tricks for diarization?Kevin [00:36:27]: So we do use the, the open source packages, but we have tweaked it a bit here and there. For example, if you mentioned the BAI guys, I actually listened to the podcast episode was super nice. Thank you. And when you started talking about speaker diarization, and I just have to think about, uh, I don't know.Kevin [00:36:49]: Is it possible? I don't know. I don't know. F**k this. Yeah, no, I don't know.Kevin [00:36:55]: Yeah. We are the best. This is a.swyx [00:37:07]: I don't know. This is the best. I don't know. This is the best. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're doing good.Kevin [00:37:12]: So, so yeah. This is great. This is good. Yeah. No, so that of course helps us. Another thing that helps us is that we know certain structural aspects of the podcast. For example, how often does someone speak? Like if someone, like let's say there's a one hour episode and someone speaks for 30 seconds, that person is most probably not the guest and not the host. It's probably some ad, like some speaker from an ad. So we have like certain of these heuristics that we can use and we leverage to improve things. And in the past, we've also changed the clustering algorithm. So basically how a lot of the speaker diarization works is you basically create an embedding for the speech that's happening. And then you try to somehow cluster these embeddings and then find out this is all one speaker. This is all another speaker. And there we've also tweaked a couple of things where we again used heuristics that we could apply from knowing how podcasts function. And that's also actually why I was feeling so much with the BAI guys, because like all of these heuristics, like for them, it's probably almost impossible to use any heuristics because it can just be any situation, anything.Kevin [00:38:34]: So that's one thing that we do. Yeah, another thing is that we actually combine it with LLM. So the transcript, LLMs and the speaker diarization, like bringing all of these together to recalibrate some of the switching points. Like when does the speaker stop? When does the next one start?swyx [00:38:51]: The LLMs can add errors as well. You know, I wouldn't feel safe using them to be so precise.Kevin [00:38:58]: I mean, at the end of the day, like also just to not give a wrong impression, like the speaker diarization is also not perfect that we're doing, right? I basically don't really notice it.swyx [00:39:08]: Like I use it for search.Kevin [00:39:09]: Yeah, it's not perfect yet, but it's gotten quite good. Like, especially if you compare, if you look at some of the, like if you take a latest episode and you compare it to an episode that came out a year ago, we've improved it quite a bit.swyx [00:39:23]: Well, it's beautifully presented. Oh, I love that I can click on the transcript and it goes to the timestamp. So simple, but you know, it should exist. Yeah, I agree. I agree. So this, I'm loading a two hour episode of Detect Me Right Home, where there's a lot of different guests calling in and you've identified the guest name. And yeah, so these are all LLM based. Yeah, it's really nice.Kevin [00:39:49]: Yeah, like the speaker names.swyx [00:39:50]: I would say that, you know, obviously I'm a power user of all these tools. You have done a better job than Descript. Okay, wow. Descript is so much funding. They had their open AI invested in them and they still suck. So I don't know, like, you know, keep going. You're doing great. Yeah, thanks. Thanks.Kevin [00:40:12]: I mean, I would, I would say that, especially for anyone listening who's interested in building a consumer app with AI, I think the, like, especially if your background is in AI and you love working with AI and doing all of that, I think the most important thing is just to keep reminding yourself of what's actually the job to be done here. Like, what does actually the consumer want? Like, for example, you now were just delighted by the ability to click on this word and it jumps there. Yeah. Like, this is not, this is not rocket science. This is, like, you don't have to be, like, I don't know, Android Kapathi to come up with that and build that, right? And I think that's, that's something that's super important to keep in mind.swyx [00:40:52]: Yeah, yeah. Amazing. I mean, there's so many features, right? It's, it's so packed. There's quotes that you pick up. There's summarization. Oh, by the way, I'm going to use this as my official feature request. I want to customize what, how it's summarized. I want to, I want to have a custom prompt. Yeah. Because your summarization is good, but, you know, I have different preferences, right? Like, you know.Kevin [00:41:14]: So one thing that you can already do today, I completely get your feature request. And I think it just.swyx [00:41:18]: I'm sure people have asked it.Kevin [00:41:19]: I mean, maybe just in general as a, as a, how I see the future, you know, like in the future, I think all, everything will be personalized. Yeah, yeah. Like, not, this is not specific to us. Yeah. And today we're still in a, in a phase where the cost of LLMs, at least if you're working with, like, such long context windows. As us, I mean, there's a lot of tokens in, if you take an entire podcast, so you still have to take that cost into consideration. So if for every single user, we regenerate it entirely, it gets expensive. But in the future, this, you know, cost will continue to go down and then it will just be personalized. So that being said, you can already today, if you go to the player screen. Okay. And open up the chat. Yeah. You can go to the, to the chat. Yes. And just ask for a summary in your style.swyx [00:42:13]: Yeah. Okay. I mean, I, I listen to consume, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I, I've never really used this feature. I don't know. I think that's, that's me being a slow adopter. No, no. I mean, that's. It has, when does the conversation start? Okay.Kevin [00:42:26]: I mean, you can just type anything. I think what you're, what you're describing, I mean, maybe that is also an interesting topic to talk about. Yes. Where, like, basically I told you, like, look, we have this chat. You can just ask for it. Yeah. And this is, this is how ChatGPT works today. But if you're building a consumer app, you have to move beyond the chat box. People do not want to always type out what they want. So your feature request was, even though theoretically it's already possible, what you are actually asking for is, hey, I just want to open up the app and it should just be there in a nicely formatted way. Beautiful way such that I can read it or consume it without any issues. Interesting. And I think that's in general where a lot of the, the. Opportunities lie currently in the market. If you want to build a consumer app, taking the capability and the intelligence, but finding out what the actual user interface is the best way how a user can engage with this intelligence in a natural way.swyx [00:43:24]: Is this something I've been thinking about as kind of like AI that's not in your face? Because right now, you know, we like to say like, oh, use Notion has Notion AI. And we have the little thing there. And there's, or like some other. Any other platform has like the sparkle magic wand emoji, like that's our AI feature. Use this. And it's like really in your face. A lot of people don't like it. You know, it should just kind of become invisible, kind of like an invisible AI.Kevin [00:43:49]: 100%. I mean, the, the way I see it as AI is, is the electricity of, of the future. And like no one, like, like we don't talk about, I don't know, this, this microphone uses electricity, this phone, you don't think about it that way. It's just in there, right? It's not an electricity enabled product. No, it's just a product. Yeah. It will be the same with AI. I mean, now. It's still a, something that you use to market your product. I mean, we do, we do the same, right? Because it's still something that people realize, ah, they're doing something new, but at some point, no, it'll just be a podcast app and it will be normal that it has all of this AI in there.swyx [00:44:24]: I noticed you do something interesting in your chat where you source the timestamps. Yeah. Is that part of this prompt? Is there a separate pipeline that adds source sources?Kevin [00:44:33]: This is, uh, actually part of the prompt. Um, so this is all prompt engine. Engineering, um, uh, you should be able to click on it. Yeah, I clicked on it. Um, this is all prompt engineering with how to provide the, the context, you know, we, because we provide all of the transcript, how to provide the context and then, yeah, I get them all to respond in a correct way with a certain format and then rendering that on the front end. This is one of the examples where I would say it's so easy to create like a quick demo of this. I mean, you can just go to chat to be deep, paste this thing in and say like, yeah, do this. Okay. Like 15 minutes and you're done. Yeah. But getting this to like then production level that it actually works 99% of the time. Okay. This is then where, where the difference lies. Yeah. So, um, for this specific feature, like we actually also have like countless regexes that they're just there to correct certain things that the LLM is doing because it doesn't always adhere to the format correctly. And then it looks super ugly on the front end. So yeah, we have certain regexes that correct that. And maybe you'd ask like, why don't you use an LLM for that? Because that's sort of the, again, the AI native way, like who uses regexes anymore. But with the chat for user experience, it's very important that you have the streaming because otherwise you need to wait so long until your message has arrived. So we're streaming live the, like, just like ChatGPT, right? You get the answer and it's streaming the text. So if you're streaming the text and something is like incorrect. It's currently not easy to just like pipe, like stream this into another stream, stream this into another stream and get the stream back, which corrects it, that would be amazing. I don't know, maybe you can answer that. Do you know of any?swyx [00:46:19]: There's no API that does this. Yeah. Like you cannot stream in. If you own the models, you can, uh, you know, whatever token sequence has, has been emitted, start loading that into the next one. If you fully own the models, uh, I don't, it's probably not worth it. That's what you do. It's better. Yeah. I think. Yeah. Most engineers who are new to AI research and benchmarking actually don't know how much regexing there is that goes on in normal benchmarks. It's just like this ugly list of like a hundred different, you know, matches for some criteria that you're looking for. No, it's very cool. I think it's, it's, it's an example of like real world engineering. Yeah. Do you have a tooling that you're proud of that you've developed for yourself?Kevin [00:47:02]: Is it just a test script or is it, you know? I think it's a bit more, I guess the term that has come up is, uh, vibe coding, uh, vibe coding, some, no, sorry, that's actually something else in this case, but, uh, no, no, yes, um, vibe evals was a term that in one of the talks actually on, on, um, I think it might've been the first, the first or the first day at the conference, someone brought that up. Yeah. Uh, because yeah, a lot of the talks were about evals, right. Which is so important. And yeah, I think for us, it's a bit more vibe. Evals, you know, that's also part of, you know, being a startup, we can take risks, like we can take the cost of maybe sometimes it failing a little bit or being a little bit off and our users know that and they appreciate that in return, like we're moving fast and iterating and building, building amazing things, but you know, a Spotify or something like that, half of our features will probably be in a six month review through legal or I don't know what, uh, before they could sell them out.swyx [00:48:04]: Let's just say Spotify is not very good at podcasting. Um, I have a documented, uh, dislike for, for their podcast features, just overall, really, really well integrated any other like sort of LLM focused engineering challenges or problems that you, that you want to highlight.Kevin [00:48:20]: I think it's not unique to us, but it goes again in the direction of handling the uncertainty of LLMs. So for example, with last year, at the end of the year, we did sort of a snipped wrapped. And one of the things we thought it would be fun to, just to do something with, uh, with an LLM and something with the snips that, that a user has. And, uh, three, let's say unique LLM features were that we assigned a personality to you based on the, the snips that, that you have. It was, I mean, it was just all, I guess, a bit of a fun, playful way. I'm going to look up mine. I forgot mine already.swyx [00:48:57]: Um, yeah, I don't know whether it's actually still in the, in the, we all took screenshots of it.Kevin [00:49:01]: Ah, we posted it in the, in the discord. And the, the second one, it was, uh, we had a learning scorecard where we identified the topics that you snipped on the most, and you got like a little score for that. And the third one was a, a quote that stood out. And the quote is actually a very good example of where we would run that for user. And most of the time it was an interesting quote, but every now and then it was like a super boring quotes that you think like, like how, like, why did you select that? Like, come on for there. The solution was actually just to say, Hey, give me five. So it extracted five quotes as a candidate, and then we piped it into a different model as a judge, LLM as a judge, and there we use a, um, a much better model because with the, the initial model, again, as, as I mentioned also earlier, we do have to look at the, like the, the costs because it's like, we have so much text that goes into it. So we, there we use a bit more cheaper model, but then the judge can be like a really good model to then just choose one out of five. This is a practical example.swyx [00:50:03]: I can't find it. Bad search in discord. Yeah. Um, so, so you do recommend having a much smarter model as a judge, uh, and that works for you. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I think this year I'm very interested in LM as a judge being more developed as a concept, I think for things like, you know, snips, raps, like it's, it's fine. Like, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's entertaining. There's no right answer.Kevin [00:50:29]: I mean, we also have it. Um, we also use the same concept for our books feature where we identify the, the mention. Books. Yeah. Because there it's the same thing, like 90% of the time it, it works perfectly out of the box one shot and every now and then it just, uh, starts identifying books that were not really mentioned or that are not books or made, yeah, starting to make up books. And, uh, they are basically, we have the same thing of like another LLM challenging it. Um, yeah. And actually with the speakers, we do the same now that I think about it. Yeah. Um, so I'm, I think it's a, it's a great technique. Interesting.swyx [00:51:05]: You run a lot of calls.Kevin [00:51:07]: Yeah.swyx [00:51:08]: Okay. You know, you mentioned costs. You move from self hosting a lot of models to the, to the, you know, big lab models, open AI, uh, and Google, uh, non-topic.Kevin [00:51:18]: Um, no, we love Claude. Like in my opinion, Claude is the, the best one when it comes to the way it formulates things. The personality. Yeah. The personality. Okay. I actually really love it. But yeah, the cost is. It's still high.swyx [00:51:36]: So you cannot, you tried Haiku, but you're, you're like, you have to have Sonnet.Kevin [00:51:40]: Uh, like basically we like with Haiku, we haven't experimented too much. We obviously work a lot with 3.5 Sonnet. Uh, also, you know, coding. Yeah. For coding, like in cursor, just in general, also brainstorming. We use it a lot. Um, I think it's a great brainstorm partner, but yeah, with, uh, with, with a lot of things that we've done done, we opted for different models.swyx [00:52:00]: What I'm trying to drive at is how much cheaper can you get if you go from cloud to cloud? Closed models to open models. And maybe it's like 0% cheaper, maybe it's 5% cheaper, or maybe it's like 50% cheaper. Do you have a sense?Kevin [00:52:13]: It's very difficult to, to judge that. I don't really have a sense, but I can, I can give you a couple of thoughts that have gone through our minds over the time, because obviously we do realize like, given that we, we have a couple of tasks where there are just so many tokens going in, um, at some point it will make sense to, to offload some of that. Uh, to an open source model, but going back to like, we're, we're a startup, right? Like we're not an AI lab or whatever, like for us, actually the most important thing is to iterate fast because we need to learn from our users, improve that. And yeah, just this velocity of this, these iterations. And for that, the closed models hosted by open AI, Google is, uh, and swapping, they're just unbeatable because you just, it's just an API call. Yeah. Um, so you don't need to worry about. Yeah. So much complexity behind that. So this is, I would say the biggest reason why we're not doing more in this space, but there are other thoughts, uh, also for the future. Like I see two different, like we basically have two different usage patterns of LLMs where one is this, this pre-processing of a podcast episode, like this initial processing, like the transcription, speaker diarization, chapterization. We do that once. And this, this usage pattern it's, it's quite predictable. Because we know how many podcasts get released when, um, so we can sort of have a certain capacity and we can, we, we're running that 24 seven, it's one big queue running 24 seven.swyx [00:53:44]: What's the queue job runner? Uh, is it a Django, just like the Python one?Kevin [00:53:49]: No, that, that's just our own, like our database and the backend talking to the database, picking up jobs, finding it back. I'm just curious in orchestration and queues. I mean, we, we of course have like, uh, a lot of other orchestration where we're, we're, where we use, uh, the Google pub sub, uh, thing, but okay. So we have this, this, this usage pattern of like very predictable, uh, usage, and we can max out the, the usage. And then there's this other pattern where it's, for example, the snippet where it's like a user, it's a user action that triggers an LLM call and it has to be real time. And there can be moments where it's by usage and there can be moments when there's very little usage for that. There. So that's, that's basically where these LLM API calls are just perfect because you don't need to worry about scaling this up, scaling this down, um, handling, handling these issues. Serverless versus serverful.swyx [00:54:44]: Yeah, exactly. Okay.Kevin [00:54:45]: Like I see them a bit, like I see open AI and all of these other providers, I see them a bit as the, like as the Amazon, sorry, AWS of, of AI. So it's a bit similar how like back before AWS, you would have to have your, your servers and buy new servers or get rid of servers. And then with AWS, it just became so much easier to just ramp stuff up and down. Yeah. And this is like the taking it even, even, uh, to the next level for AI. Yeah.swyx [00:55:18]: I am a big believer in this. Basically it's, you know, intelligence on demand. Yeah. We're probably not using it enough in our daily lives to do things. I should, we should be able to spin up a hundred things at once and go through things and then, you know, stop. And I feel like we're still trying to figure out how to use LLMs in our lives effectively. Yeah. Yeah.Kevin [00:55:38]: 100%. I think that goes back to the whole, like that, that's for me where the big opportunity is for, if you want to do a startup, um, it's not about, but you can let the big labs handleswyx [00:55:48]: the challenge of more intelligence, but, um, it's the... Existing intelligence. How do you integrate? How do you actually incorporate it into your life? AI engineering. Okay, cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Um, the one, one other thing I wanted to touch on was multimodality in frontier models. Dwarcash had a interesting application of Gemini recently where he just fed raw audio in and got diarized transcription out or timestamps out. And I think that will come. So basically what we're saying here is another wave of transformers eating things because right now models are pretty much single modality things. You know, you have whisper, you have a pipeline and everything. Yeah. You can't just say, Oh, no, no, no, we only fit like the raw, the raw files. Do you think that will be realistic for you? I 100% agree. Okay.Kevin [00:56:38]: Basically everything that we talked about earlier with like the speaker diarization and heuristics and everything, I completely agree. Like in the, in the future that would just be put everything into a big multimodal LLM. Okay. And it will output, uh, everything that you want. Yeah. So I've also experimented with that. Like just... With, with Gemini 2? With Gemini 2.0 Flash. Yeah. Just for fun. Yeah. Yeah. Because the big difference right now is still like the cost difference of doing speaker diarization this way or doing transcription this way is a huge difference to the pipeline that we've built up. Huh. Okay.swyx [00:57:15]: I need to figure out what, what that cost is because in my mind 2.0 Flash is so cheap. Yeah. But maybe not cheap enough for you.Kevin [00:57:23]: Uh, no, I mean, if you compare it to, yeah, whisper and speaker diarization and especially self-hosting it and... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.swyx [00:57:30]: Yeah.Kevin [00:57:30]: Okay. But we will get there, right? Like this is just a question of time.swyx [00:57:33]: And, um, at some point, as soon as that happens, we'll be the first ones to switch. Yeah. Awesome. Anything else that you're like sort of eyeing on the horizon as like, we are thinking about this feature, we're thinking about incorporating this new functionality of AI into our, into our app? Yeah.Kevin [00:57:50]: I mean, we, there's so many areas that we're thinking about, like our challenge is a bit more... Choosing. Yeah. Choosing. Yeah. So, I mean, I think for me, like looking into like the next couple of years, like the big areas that interest us a lot, basically four areas, like one is content. Um, right now it's, it's podcasts. I mean, you did mention, I think you mentioned like you can also upload audio books and YouTube videos. YouTube. I actually use the YouTube one a fair amount. But in the future, we, we want to also have audio books natively in the app. And, uh, we want to enable AI generated content. Like just think of, take deep research and notebook analysis. Like put these together. That should be, that should be in our app. The second area is discovery. I think in general. Yeah.swyx [00:58:38]: I noticed that you don't have, so you

This week on the Roach Koach Podcast it's all about Who's Tweeting, as Lorin and Matt go over the latest Nu-News, listener emails, lists and more! Topics this episode include:-Viral video feedback-Nu-Metal bands who should be in the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame-Who's Festing at Nova Rock 2025-New songs from Tetrarch and Stray From The Path-Who's Emailing with the Nu-Metal Mount Rushmore-And Stupid F'N Matts Nu Core for Old HeadsTake a listen!Exclusive episodes and more on the Roach Koach Patreon. New episodes of the Pact every month. Subscribe today! Rate and review Roach Koach on iTunes! We'd appreciate it! Questions about the show? Have album recommendations? Just want to say hi? We'd love to hear from you! Contact the show @RoachKoach on Twitter, Roach Koach on Facebook , Roach Koach on Instagram, or send an email to RoachKoachPodcast at Gmail. Follow the show on Youtube and TikTok! Find every episode of Roach Koach and order your Roach Koach T-shirt at Roach Koach dot com.

This week on the Roach Koach Podcast it's all about the Koach going Viral! That's right, we did it! Topics this episode include:-Matt's secrets to internet fame-What percentage of internet commenters just want to say hi-Spineshank and the Roach Koach Bump-The Louder Than Life slow drip-Logo discussion Part 2-Diving at the dial-Who's Listing with Josh Toomey-Mini Canon Talk-Movie podding-Nu-Metal from Chile and Poland-And Stupid F'N Matt's Nu Core for Old HeadsTake a listen!Exclusive episodes and more on the Roach Koach Patreon. New episodes of the Pact every month. Subscribe today! Rate and review Roach Koach on iTunes! We'd appreciate it! Questions about the show? Have album recommendations? Just want to say hi? We'd love to hear from you! Contact the show @RoachKoach on Twitter, Roach Koach on Facebook , Roach Koach on Instagram, or send an email to RoachKoachPodcast at Gmail. Follow the show on Youtube and TikTok! Find every episode of Roach Koach and order your Roach Koach T-shirt at Roach Koach dot com.

FOX Sports' lead College Football analyst Joel Klatt reacts to the First Round of the College Football Playoff as Ohio State, Texas, Penn State and Notre Dame all advanced to the Quarterfinals. He states why this is the version of Ohio State he's been waiting to see and why they can win the National Championship. He breaks down what made Notre Dame and Penn State's emphatic wins so impressive while giving Texas credit for withstanding a great performance from Clemson's Cade Klubnik. Klatt also discusses the discourse around the Playoff this weekend and why it was so negative. He explains why he was so frustrated with the conversation questioning Indiana and SMU after their losses that he ended up tweeting at Lane Kiffin. 0:00-1:56 Intro 1:57-4:50 Joel's Big Takeaways 4:51-15:50 Ohio State's impressive game plan 15:51-23:34 Texas advances to quarterfinals after beating Clemson 23:35-30:42 Penn State blows out SMU 30:43-34:24 Notre Dame beats Indiana 34:25-47:05 Joel's frustrations with the CFP discourse 47:06-48:19 Outro Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices