Voices of Deconversion

Today I speak with Tom Boulton from the U.K. Tom's Christian faith grew in his teenage years amongst friends. His dad thought Tom was in a cult. Tom experienced intense anxiety at the thought of friends and family going to hell.  His faith is all-consuming.  He said that 18 year old Christian Tom wouldn't recognize 23 year old Christian Tom. His understanding and definition of Christianity changed.  Tom mentors a 16 year old boy from church who comes out to Tom as gay. Tom doesn't respond so well the first time, but gets a chance to follow-up with the boy later and make it right.  Work is a great landing place for him to go as he deconverts. After deconverting he invites everyone, including church friends out for a pint to chat about the changes in his life. It goes really well! Tom is the friendliest, kindest guy and I loved hearing his story! You'll love it too.

Emily experienced several difficult relationships in her teen years. The boys/men she was with were often several years older than her and might described as manipulative and/or emotionally abusive in the way they treated her. When things went wrong, as she put it, she "went ham for God". During these years she went on mission trips and led worship in several churches. Later when she suspects somethings not quite right with her boyfriend, an atheist co-worker affirms her feelings and gives her perspective. Later she addresses her mental health and eventually determines she's agnostic leaning atheist. She is so friendly and funny and was a joy to speak with. She has come through a lot difficulties in her young life  and her story will inspire you.

Ryan is a former evangelical homeschooler who enjoyed life and understanding the world so much that he eventually outgrew the religion of his upbringing. He now works in the tech manufacturing field in Austin TX and enjoys group meditation, talking about philosophy and history, and playing both sports and music. Today, Ryan calls himself atheist or agnostic but prefers the simple term “secular”, with a philosophy most closely aligning with Buddhism. We have a great conversation. It was so fun chatting with him and getting to know him. I love the Marcus Aurelius quote too! Ryan's authenticity and friendly nature really come through in this interview. Enjoy!

Christianity ruins their childhood. They were born into a Catholic family and went to church every Saturday. They became aware they were non-binary at 6 years old, realizing they didn't want to be a girl. Their parents were caring and the type of people that you wish Christians were.  Despite a loving home environment, this didn't prevent a childhood of isolation and self-hatred. They were bullied, abused and suicidal. Somehow they remained a hardcore Christian. Later in life they experience abuse in romantic relationships. In college they leave Catholicism for Non-denominational Christianity.  Processing their grandmother's death leads to panic attacks and motivates them to read the Bible. It's immediately obvious to them that the Bible is (dark) Fiction. They eventually get mental health help and in 2019 decide they are non longer a Christian. They are now an atheist.  bsinka94@gmail.com

* Trigger Warning: Discussions of abuse and rape* Christa Elane is a self described "old Millennial" who has been deconverting for years and now leans atheist. She lives in the beautiful Pacific Northwest with her spouse and kids. She's a social worker and disability advocate with a passion for Autism acceptance and inclusion. She was raised in a so called "spirit filled' non-denominational Christian church in California. She was a part of the "Toronto Blessing" revival in he 1990s and was in a Christian cult in her teen years in Spokane, Washington. Christa wants to share about her journey out of Christianity and the abuses she witnessed at several churches. 

My guest today grew up never knowing any other perspective, except the one he was told to have. His family did not attend events outside of church. He spent preschool through 12th grade at the same private school and church. His friendships were strictly controlled. Girlfriends or "crushes" were prohibited. Every potential influence was censored. He had no privacy at any time. He wasn't allowed to develop any opinion unless it was the same as his parents.   He was forced to hide his thoughts, friendships, music or anything else that didn't conform. His worldview had been dictated to him his whole life until, through the Army ROTC program at a fundamentalist Christian college, he began to discover the real world. He now considers himself an atheist. He's married with two kids and lives in the South.  

Amanda was a devout Catholic. She used to attend mass daily. She and her husband didn't use birth control, in accordance with church teaching. She accidentally joins a cult at university. The 2016 and 2020 U.S. elections get her thinking about propaganda. She wonders what propaganda she believes. She hears a Bible verse that says, " You will know them by their fruits". That's the last straw. It gave her the final push to leave Christianity. She became an atheist in November 2020. She's married and has four kids. She has her undergrad in theology and Master's degree in mental health counseling. She's passionate about human rights and changing the world through empathy.  Now she is focused on raising her four kids to be aware of others. She's considering going back to school to study religious trauma and spiritual abuse because she feels like these topics aren't talked about enough.

I just wanted to share an encouraging quote from the TV series "The Innocent" on Netflix. The show has nothing to do with deconversion, but the quote definitely does. I thought you might find it an encouragement in terms of coming from a past you aren't all that happy about (having been a Christian) and looking toward a better, hopeful future. There aren't any spoilers, so I hope you get a chance to watch this show. If you do, let me know what you think of it! steve@vodpodcast.com Happy Independence Day to my fellow Americans! 

Chelsy's been instructing English as a Second Language (ESL) for 20 years. She's been a full time lecturer at Purdue University since 2014. Currently she's working on her second Master's degree about the experiences of lesbian ex-members of Campus Crusade for Christ.  She was raised in a Christian home, but an experience during the summer of her Freshman year in college, begins a series of big changes in her life. Her parents don't respond well. A mission trip to India leads to an epiphany. She is now agnostic/atheist. Chelsy's hobbies include kayaking, playing guitar and drums, rock climbing, traveling and learning languages. Chelsy and her wife recently got married just a few weeks ago! Congrats Chelsy!!

Today I speak with Abby. She was adopted from South Korea with her little sister by Christian American Parents. Her early life was marked by abuse and neglect. She was raised in a non-denominational Christian family. Demons and hell cause her nightmares as a child.  She makes big life decisions based on her faith. She later has to tell her Christian family that she is getting divorced. When She has to tell them she's an atheist, it doesn't go over well with some.  Now Abby is determined to be the kind of parent to her sons that she needed when she was a child. She wants to give them choices. She wants them to feel they have control. She wants them to know that they are their own person and they don't belong to anyone.  Abby was delightful to speak with. Her story and courage are so inspirational. I'm grateful she shared her story with us today.  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCduezbfGbAZBzS3g5RwvW-g Email: abigailsandoval1011@gmail.com 

April grew up under a lot of parental pressure and expectations. Purity culture had a strong influence on her.  *Trigger Warning*: We discuss an abusive relationship, mental health & suicide in the episode. When an abusive relationship ends, April begins to question how this is handled within a Christian context. April poses the questions: What happens when your autonomy is taken from you?  She says, "This happens to a lot of people, what do we do then"? Eventually April takes an Astronomy class in college and has an epiphany.  April shares about her mental health and how suicidal thoughts were intrusive from childhood.  April feels like she's in a much better place mentally now that she's created distance between herself and people/places that were not healthy for her. It's a wonderful conversation. If you'd like to get in touch with April:  fryb4by@gmail.com

Today I tell the story of coming out as an atheist to my devout Christian mother. This happened 13 years ago and I wrote about it 3 years ago. My opinion about that conversation changed a little over time. I explain my current perspective and how I feel about all of this now. Here it is if you want to read it:  http://voicesofdeconversion.com/coming-out-atheist-to-my-mother  

Pastor & Musician who leads worship at his church. This father and husband has only come out as agnostic to a few people. He is using a fake name in today's interview.  He's a great guy and has a touching story about the costs we have to consider when leaving a Christian career.

Tiffany has so many great insights regarding the impact of Christianity on mental health. I really enjoyed my chat with her! Learn more about Tiffany: http://www.tiffanicappello.com/    

I need a break from podcasting. You can stay in touch via email, Twitter or Facebook. vodpodcast@gmail.com @vodpodcast on Twitter Steve Hilliker or the Voices of Deconversion pages on Facebook.

Today I speak with Ronna Russell, author of "The Uncomfortable Confessions of a Preacher's Kid". Ronna describes her story as "a childhood controlled by the brutal hand of a narcissistic, closeted homosexual. I believed I could leave my upbringing behind and walk away unscathed. I married a closeted homosexual man, in hopes he could keep me safe. As our sex life and bank account dwindled to nothing, fear kept me silent. In the meantime, my father died of AIDs. The pain of his death fractured my biological family, and I clung to my husband and children, creating a cocoon that became a prison. Eventually, I was forced to see my husband’s homosexuality and refusal to work, realizations that brought me to the breaking point. I found the courage to be alone, to take care of my children no matter the cost, and the joy of my own sexual freedom. In the process, I fell in love with my own life".

I left my soul-sucking job!!! This is a brief update about what I'm doing now and when you can expect the next episode. I'm really excited to jump back into it!  Stay safe and healthy with the COVID-19/Coronavirus going around. For those who are sick, get well soon. For the rest of us, also stuck (mostly) at home, hang in there.  Talk to you soon!

Episodes will be out intermittently for the coming weeks and months (I'm still aiming for bi-weekly). That was all I was trying to say and ended up talking about the impact deconversion had on my sense of purpose and fulfillment in life, LOL. If all you need to know is to check your podcast app every once in a while, then it's all good and I'll talk to you soon :) However, if you're interested in hearing about one of the most significant impacts deconversion had in my life (something that's impacted many of you too), then I'd feel grateful for your time and appreciate you letting me share my experience with you.  I share how realizing I wasn't Christian, put me in a tailspin and led to serious depression and loss of meaning and purpose in my life. I'm still feeling the repercussions of deconversion 15 years later. Let me emphasize that I'm incredibly hopeful, motivated and excited for this next chapter of my life!  I didn't thank Krissy enough in this episode, so I'll do it here. She's been with me and seen me through this entire insane journey. She is one of the most empathetic and compassionate people I've ever known. She has been so understanding and sympathetic in every way. Her love and friendship have truly meant the world to me.  Let me know if you've experienced something similar in your life and how you responded. I'd love to hear it! Send me a message on Twitter @vodpodcast, Facebook or steve@vodpodcast.com

Today is a very special episode about an ex-Muslim's deconversion to atheism, while living in Iran. His story is so important to share! He grew up in Iran in a Shia Muslim family. He was a devout Muslim until he got curious about Salman Rushdie's book, The Satanic Verses. His curiosity leads him to banned anti-islam websites. He reads articles and books, eventually realizing he's an atheist. Muhammad began to spread anti-islam materials on websites and social media. After 3 years, he is caught and aggressively arrested on the street. He spends time in prison and solitary confinement. His parents put their house up for bail and he is forced to repent and make a false confession, which airs on Youtube and Islamic Republic television. While on bail, he is eventually called back for the trial and an inevitable 15 years in prison. He decides he must escape Iran. 

Jordan grew up going to church every Sunday with his family. He went to Bible studies and lived a typical Christian life. When he was junior high age, his family stopped attending church regularly. As Jordan grew older, he struggled balancing his church friendships along with his non-church friendships. He didn't want to live a double life. His faith becomes more serious and he discovers Calvinist theology. At first, he embraces it. Later, he begins to question more than just Calvinism.  The difficult process of deconstructing his faith leads to agnosticism. 

Gidday Listeners! My first guest from Australian shares his fascinating journey out of Christianity.  He was raised in a typical Methodist Christian home in a small Township in Australia. His dad was a brickmaker and his mother a homemaker. He was raised going to Sunday school. His dad attended prayer groups during the week and his mom went to women's church groups.  As a young teenager he was listening to a Fundamentalist preacher when a blasphemous thought entered his mind. Instantly he knew he was damned and going to hell. He couldn't dare tell anyone, as this may confirm his terrible reality. He kept all this to himself. He lived his day-to-day life, but every so often was reminded of his terrible fate. This thought tormented him for years. A few years later he's invited to a meeting with the Christadelphians. As a Methodist, he was viewed as a damnable heretic. Conversely, he viewed them that way too. Following an intense discussion he has a realization and finally finds relief. I loved his message to embrace the things we don't know. This is a huge part of what brings me peace as an atheist too. It's ok to not know or understand everything. It's the mystery of life that brings wonder and awe. It also leaves us with so much to discover in our world. In difficult times, we gather comfort from something Roland reminded me near the end of our talk: We're in it together!  

Matt was born in Wichita, Kansas and lived there until about age 7. He was raised non-denominational/charismatic mostly in the Assemblies of God churches and had full on believed by age 5. He had great parents and never had too many issues in the church. However, he always had a great fear of hell even as a Christian. He was in and out of church most of his life until his first divorce. Then went to bible college at a very charismatic school in 2009. He began seeing cracks and flaws in that particular doctrine and started pulling back. He had gotten his minister's license close to graduation and upon graduation went straight to the mission field in Asia in 2011/12. He worked with the underground church in China and the Burmese refugees I’m Thailand. He finally began having more questions over the years until he couldn’t do it anymore because of how it was just messing his head up. 10,000 religions, 40,000 plus denominations within Christianity alone, good people going to hell, simply for not believing. He hated the way Christians viewed & spoke to the LGBTQ community and other faiths like they all couldn’t just be people, but had to be a mission and Christians had to have an agenda. He felt that devalued all groups outside of Christendom as less than human. He hated it. Later he had a stint in rehab for alcohol and began reading books like the wisdom of insecurity from Alan Watts and Thomas Paine’s the Age of Reason. He felt like he'd found freedom in Deism. He was there for a bit, then went back out of fear. That didn’t last long.  The full shift happened less than a year ago and now he is an Atheist. He said he truly feels born again and free.

URGENT: If you live in Wisconsin please contact your state representative to express support for the Clergy Mandatory Reporter Act & the Child Victims Act.  These bills are being considered right now. If your representative is Republican, it's even more important. Republican support is low for these bills, but is critical. Anything you can do is very much appreciated. Now, to introduce today's guest... Debbie McNulty is a lifelong resident of Wisconsin. She attended a United Pentecostal church from about age 7 to 17. She was exposed to sexual abuse and ideas which caused serious religious trauma.  Now she works to help others cope with their trauma and raise awareness about the organization she grew up in. Her story is such an important story to tell. Debbie is an amazing person and ends the conversation with such a hopeful message!  Debbie's Blog: https://survivingchurchandchildhood.wordpress.com/about/ Cap Times article: https://madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/lawmakers-push-bills-to-end-statute-of-limitations-on-lawsuits/article_25165c22-1475-5752-84ce-bef5a81153d2.html

What an amazing story! Rebecca grew up in a cult-like Christian church called the World Wide Church of God. Her particular congregation was quite small and at one point only consisted of around 20 people. They celebrated Jewish holy days, but adopted their own meaning. They kept a version of Kosher as well. They had very peculiar beliefs about becoming gods one day and having to slay sinners when the resurrection occurred.  In such a small church there weren't many children her age. Rebecca became very close to her friend Linda and Linda's family. She even referred to Linda's mom as Aunt Kathy. In a sudden and tragic way, Rebecca loses her friend Linda and Linda's parents. Tragedy sends Rebecca running toward God. She embraces her faith wholeheartedly. She decides not to curse, minimizes the media she consumes and dives into purity culture. She was as devout as it gets for a teenager. When she goes to college, the demands of piety become too much. Personal research and a class at her Catholic college begin to change what has always been a fundamental part of Rebecca's life.  

You have to hear this story! He's always wanted to help people. When he became a strong Christian, it was saving people from the lake of fire. If Hell was real, Wiley was compelled to do everything in his power to save people from it. He would stand outside ATMs on busy Friday nights preaching to people. He was attracted to an aggressive form of Christianity. Having exactly the right doctrine was very important to him. So much so, that he and his wife later struggled to find the right church.  He wouldn't marry his wife unless she agreed to wear dresses and not celebrate Christmas, as it's a pagan celebration. She eventually agreed. Later Wiley hears a podcast host pose a question for Christians. The host asks if Christians could admit they might possibly be wrong. When the podcast host proclaims that Christians never will admit this, Wiley thinks "challenge accepted". His faith is tested and then his marriage. He faces questions about faith with transparency. He also decides to face OCPD (Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder) and PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) in an honest, open way. He's a courageous human being and I'm so glad he shared his story with us.

Amanda is realistic about life's difficulties, but also very hopeful. She wears her heart on her sleeve and hopes her story will help others going through similar challenges. I loved her wise words about living with mental illness and how, although better off today, she still has ups and downs. She's a kindhearted person with a great sense of humor. I loved getting to chat with her. Her story is such an important one to tell. Amanda is a newly deconverted Christian that wonders where her prayers went for the 16 years she was a Christian, she describes herself as a multiracial undomesticated goddess but understands she’s a work in progress. Amanda was raised in an emotionally neglectful household and experienced sexual abuse from a family member. She committed her life to God as a way to escape abuse and to find love. Suicide was a common theme as she struggled with undiagnosed mental illnesses. She wants others to seek help with depression and anxiety when it comes up because it can be dangerous for those to go undiagnosed. During a mental health crisis last year she realized that God was not the answer and that she needed help for depression. During that time she was also diagnosed with PTSD. Since leaving Christianity she’s been freed from the guilt and shame associated with religion and now sees the world differently. This allows her to enjoy life, laugh more, and watch Game of Thrones. She is a mother to dynamic twin boys and a wife to a strong, adventurous man. She enjoys being outdoors but not exercising, she enjoys reading only for pleasure, she enjoys watching her children laugh and play but not fight, she loves game nights, good food, and rum punch drinks. She also aspires to be a comedian. She wants others to be unencumbered by the fear of what others think and to reach out when they need help. She wants to be a safe place for herself and others.

I don't think I've met anyone who was as committed a Christian at such a young age as Jeremy. He understood his faith so well as a 7 year old that his friends at daycare wanted him to debate an adult atheist! At home he was telling his father he wanted to preach. By 10 years of age he was giving altar calls. This was a child who loved the Bible and lived his faith. Things continue like this into college. One night during a church service Jeremy attended, the preacher decided to put her faith into action. She called forward a blind man for healing. Everyone expected a miracle, but after a while nothing occurred. The man was not healed. Jeremy was troubled by the experience. This was a turning point. When Jeremy eventually accepts he's an atheist, he has to tell his fiancé, father and pastor at his church. These were conversations that would test his most important relationships.  He's come a long way and recently graduated from college. I had a great time talking with him and enjoyed a few laughs along the way.

Dave was recently diagnosed with ALS and has been given 2 to 5 years to live. He has been going around the country and on podcasts speaking about his experience. Today Dave joins me to share what his life focus has been since the diagnosis. How Christian friends and secular friends respond to Dave's news has been very different. I found this really interesting. Dave quit his job and has been living his best life now. He is writing his own story, as he puts it. Life is a collection of moments. Life is about allowing ourselves to really capture those moments and enjoy them. He was an inspiration to talk to and you'll get so much out of this conversation. Carpe the f*cking diem!  Dave loves connecting with people, feel free to reach out on social media: https://twitter.com/dwwarnock?fbclid=IwAR0jOvQE83dbYYF4uHdmvDFnGq3y8j1xd0_2GH5xTXbxV81aX46Cl6YxX9c https://www.facebook.com/DaveWarnock.DyingOutLoud/ Dave speaks at the First Unitarian Society of Minneapolis on July 14, 2019. To all my Minnesota listeners, go check it out :) https://www.facebook.com/events/2105868036370343/  

What a great conversation! Dana brings such wonderful insight into her life experiences. It was a pleasure hearing her fascinating story.  We discuss some difficult, but important topics today. Child abuse, mental illness, substance abuse, abusive relationships and the fixation on sex by male church authorities.  Dana was raised in a evangelical baptist church and home in California. She was homeschooled from Kindergarten though 6th grade and survived child abuse until she left her hometown to pursue academic training for missionary work. She completed several mission trips in preparation for full time ministry before concluding she could not participate in the field. She de-converted from Christianity in her 20’s and began working to help others do the same by hosting a support group in Chicago and being outspoken about her experiences on social media and in an interview with the Chicago Tribune in 2013. Dana has a Biblical Studies degree from New Tribes Bible Institute and a B.A. in Applied Linguistics from Moody Bible Institute. She received her Masters in Special Education from University of Illinois Chicago. She is a political activist in her community and a teacher, tutor and therapist to children with diverse needs. She actively seeks to help abolish white supremacy and misogyny. She is currently writing a book on de-conversion, specifically from the view of intersectional feminism. @somestarstuff on twitter dana.m.smith85@gmail.com https://cactusblossoms.wordpress.com (my blog)

I was so impressed with Misty's kindness, strength and perspective. At 4 years old Misty gets a virus, which leads to a social anxiety disorder called Selective Mutism. This prevents Misty from being able to speak. She is only able to speak with her parents and brother, but not her older sisters. Misty copes with this through most of childhood. She spent many days playing by herself and being, as she put it "in her head". As early as 11 years old she notices depression. By her senior year in high school, it gets worse. Exposure to an atheist cousin has an impact, but she feels a calling to be a nun. Her years experiencing selective mutism pave the way to her calling as a cloistered nun, taking a vow of silence. Misty's mom thinks she should be a writer (spoiler alert: she is now a reporter for two newspapers....and she loves it!). Tragically, her mother is later diagnosed with cancer and not long after passes away. Misty wonders if God wanted her mother to die, since her mother didn't think Misty should be a nun. Misty learns to grieve without God's help. She grows closer to her father. Her religious and political views change...and it turns out catholic boys aren't necessarily the best boys to date. 

A truly touching and inspiring story. Christianity was everything for Timoree. It helped her with sobriety, mental illness and was a source of comfort. You can imagine that when faith begins to fracture, how unsettling and scary it was for her.  The most important things in her life were at stake. Somehow, she still found the courage to face this challenge head on. Timoree tells the tearful, but moving stories of how she told her husband and children that she is not a Christian. Her son is a youth pastor!  The beautiful thing about her story is the emphasis on relationships: our relationships with our spouse, children and friends. The value of having good people in our life is priceless.   

Janice was an all-or-nothing kind of Christian. Her life takes a turn toward fundamentalism when her husband is going to school to be a pastor. She chooses to show her submission to her husband by wearing a head covering and not wearing jewelry or make-up. She went through some tremendously difficult experiences: Her daughter's illness, difficulties in her marriage and a family member jailed for murder. Janice brings amazing insight regarding how we see faith through the lens of our personality. She talks about how as Christians, there was always the danger of fundamentalism becoming our identity. As fundamentalist Christians, if faith is questioned it can be interpreted as a threat to our personhood. Now an Agnostic-Atheist Janice has focused her time and energy into helping others. Check out her Divorcing Religion Workshop at: http://www.divorcingreligion.com Find her on Social Media: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DivorcingReligion/ Twitter: @divorcereligion https://twitter.com/divorcereligion YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeO8lUJyR0k   Full Bio http://www.divorcingreligion.com/contact/ Janice was born and raised in a charismatic Christian home, attending Pentecostal, Vineyard, and other evangelical churches before eventually marrying a pastor. In her 30s, Janice became ultraconservative, donning a head-covering, homeschooling her children, and rejecting any vestiges of secular life (TV, radio, music, newspapers, magazines, etc.).“I referred to myself as ‘Mennocostal,’ frequently attending closed Mennonite churches run by the Holdemann Mennonites.” It wasn’t until her 40s that Janice began experiencing doubts about her deeply held faith. As her marriage unraveled, her questions grew. “I felt like a beach ball held beneath the water for too long. My sadness, confusion, and anger became so intense that I knew I had to leave it all behind.” After ending her decades-long marriage, Janice went back to school to attain her Diploma of Applied Psychology and Counselling.“My passion is to help others who are experiencing the tremendous losses associated with religious de-conversion. My own journey could have been easier if I had been able to connect with even one other person who had walked away from their faith and built a healthy life afterward.”  These painful experiences influenced Janice to develop the Divorcing Religion workshop so that others can gain knowledge and tools to help with their own journey out of fundamentalist religions.  In the workshop, she helps participants gain perspective about their journey, build supportive communities, and learn how to avoid being ensnared by other forms of fundamentalism in the future.    

Today I had the pleasure of speaking with Cheryl Abram.  She's author of the book Firing God. Check it out on her website: https://www.cherylabram.com/about So many great stories in this episode! We hear how her southern Louisiana family is chalk full of deacons and ministers. She attended Church 6-days a week! As things get more difficult later in life, she finds herself giving God one-last go. Her pastor gives her a book to read. What she reads in that book causes her to tell God to F*** Off. On a lighter note, she cracked me up with her story of watching Christopher Hitchens debates secretly in her room. So awesome & so hilarious!  At the end of our conversation she elaborates on the meaning behind the title, Firing God. I loved her explanation so much. It was such an empowering idea. I trust you'll love it too.

What a Journey! Joy was 3 when separated from her siblings and family of origin. It happened without warning. Her foster family were fundamentalist Christians in Idaho.  She grew up in the church and had mostly a positive experience. She got lots of attention and love in church. As a child her feet get run over by a lawnmower. She believes God can heal her and goes in front of the church to be healed. Later in life she marries, becomes a missionary in Taiwan and raises 6 kids in the church. When one of her daughters returns from a trip to Europe her views have changed, and Joy noticed! As a Christian mother, Joy is very unsettled by her daughter's new views. However, down the road when Joy begins to research and question her own beliefs, her daughter is excited to hear about it! Joy eventually sits down with all her children to share her new views. Her message to her children is unconditional love and support, no matter what they choose to believe for themselves. Joy Hopper's memoir is called Joy Unspeakable: Toxic Faith and Rose-Colored Glasses. You can find it in paperback or Kindle.  https://www.amazon.com/Joy-Unspeakable-Hopper/dp/1640824456  

Today I finally had the privilege to meet Cass Midgley! His podcast (Everyone's Agnostic) was the first podcast I found that shared deconversion stories. This has been so encouraging to me through the years and played a big role in helping me process my deconversion. He's an open book and a straight shooter. The longer you listen to Cass, the more you'll discover an incredibly insightful, compassionate and generous human being.  Cass Midgley earned his Masters in Theological Studies from Vanderbilt University in 2013…as an atheist. Cass started the Everyone's Agnostic podcast in 2014 with friend and former co-host Bob Pondillo. Everyone's Agnostic podcast now has over half a million downloads!  As a boy, Cass knew there was a God; the two were close, personal friends.  Born and raised in Oklahoma, Cass walked right into Christianity. Christianity gave him a great life: purpose, friends, community, hope, etc.   ​ In 2004, at age 38, he left the church and began thinking and reading things he would not allow himself to while a Christian.  ​When not uniting the deconvert community, Cass also enjoys his daily crossword puzzle, watching college basketball, and drinking cheap gin & tonic with lots of lime. Cass is also a Humanist Chaplain who officiates non-religious weddings and funerals for all genders and orientations. 

I want to update all of you on what's been happening since the last episode. This is a brief update on some personal stuff and also some podcast stuff.  I'm currently editing my episode with Cass Midgley of Everyone's Agnostic podcast. That will be out in the coming days. Thanks for being such awesome listeners! I appreciate you all.

Loved this conversation!  What a fascinating and unique experience. April has so many wonderful stories to share. Some highlights: Her parents immigration from Korea, the origin of their Christianity, Korean superstitions and what it was like to be raised Presbyterian. She's forced to speak in tongues as a child. She later decides to go to Seminary and is a youth pastor for several years. She experiences regular stress, sickness and depression as a Christian. Church history opens her eyes. When she stops going to church, her sickness stops and her liberation begins! She taught in Georgia Public Schools for 24 years. She loves to travel and also spends time helping new immigrants to America get registered to vote.

Today we hear from Austrian Graf and Steve Birss of Lethbridge, Alberta. They discuss their new song "Heathen" and share their diverse journeys out of charismatic Christianity.  Each was raised by a single mom. However, their mothers influenced them in very unique ways.  We talk about the Jesus movement, leg lengthening, calvinism and Christian tattoos. We hear about the impact of drug dealing and jail, overcoming an eating disorder and healing from trauma.  A wonderful and positive takeaway-learning that we have the power within ourselves to overcome life's difficulties. Another great takeaway- learning to repurpose and redefine our experience. Last but not least-being gracious to ourselves. https://www.facebook.com/starsfromstreetlights/ https://www.spotify.com https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFCgvHkALH_ek1cnoEe--Bg      

Today I have the privilege of speaking with author Dauv Evans. Dauv shares his journey out of Christianity and we discuss his book "Emancipation of a Black Atheist".  2012 was a decisive year for Dauv. He got married, had a child and moved from North Carolina to Tennessee. This is also when Dauv started seriously questioning why he believed in God.   His mother always taught him to think critically when he was growing up. This value instilled in childhood became pivotal to his journey. When Dauv tells his mother he's not a Christian, she initially responds predictably. It's only later that he discovers her feelings were much more complicated.  Dauv's wife becomes an ex-Christian too (still considering herself spiritual). They decide to share the news with her family. Dauv's family and his wife's family have various intriguing responses. Their experience will resonate with anyone who has come-out ex-Christian to Christian family members.   Instagram: blacknoneson Twitter: https://twitter.com/blacknoneson Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/emancipationofablackatheist/ Email: blacknoneson@gmail.com

This is an incredible story!  Leah's life reaches a turning point in April 2018. Raised in fundamentalist Christianity, she is intensely aware of the threat of hell and the rapture as a little girl. At one point, she thought her family was raptured and she was left behind! This terrified her. As she moves into high school she begins to ask some unwelcome questions and makes some controversial statements in church. (She compares Osama Bin-Laden and Jesus!) This leads to her first bout of atheism.  Although her theology becomes more progressive, she finds herself sucked back into a very fundamentalist church group. At this point, mental health struggles reach a critical point.  *Trigger warning re: abuse (emotional, physical, sexual) and suicide from about the 50 min. mark to 1hr. 5min. I loved hearing how Leah eventually turned a corner. As she put it, "I started to get better the moment I stepped away from Christianity". Hearing about her experience was powerful and inspiring. Instagram: olive.poetry lmnitcher@gmail.com https://www.marlenewinell.net  

Studying for a doctorate in clinical psychology, Andrew is now an atheist. Not long ago, he was a Pentecostal minister (Master of Divinity from Princeton Seminary) with a certain calling to be a missionary in India. What changed? In graduate school, Andrew realizes he must address some mental health issues. The Bible's teachings were causing psychological distress. His experience of religion as trauma is very common and such important an important issue! His journey takes him from minister and missionary-to-be, to psychedelics and Burning Man. His dream is to help people heal from religion and dogmatic ideologies. He offers private coaching, speaks at events, facilitates workshops and blogs at http://lifeafterdogma.org  

Gary was born in Utah and raised a Mormon. He even dreamt of Joseph Smith at 4 years old! Gary had a strict upbringing. He also moved around the country a lot growing up. Just after High School he ends up married and has a son. Soon Gary finds himself homeless, then in jail and later he endures a heart wrenching tragedy.   Gary's story is truly inspirational! He has endured some incredibly difficult circumstances in life. He is now an atheist ex-Mormon and doing great! gary@garyhogue.com Instagram:  little_gary_comic   

Richard describes his deconversion as more of a realization. I loved that description. We get into so many awesome topics in this interview. We discuss everything from the Satanic Panic of the 1980's to the harm done when children are indoctrinated.  Richard has always loved music. He talks about growing up listening to artists like Marilyn Manson & Nine Inch Nails and how this clashed with his mother's views. We talk about travel, teaching special education and mental health too.  Check out Richard's new YouTube channel: Tales from the Church https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiqHic5KZlTZHLxnySukujQ Twitter: @ChurchTales https://twitter.com/ChurchTales talesfromthechurch@gmail.com    

Dan has a fascinating story! Here's a video of Dan when he was a Christian and his faith is challenged through street epistemology:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpwxM2wNChE Dan is from Texas and was raised Methodist growing up (later attending a Baptist church). Dan loved the church community and really lived out his faith. Camp ministry was particularly enjoyable for him.  Dan sought out good reasons to back up his faith. It's this journey that leads to atheism. When he tells his parents of these new views, things go over much worse than anticipated. Dan is now part of the Secular Student Alliance at Baylor University. He also has a great Youtube channel, which you can subscribe to here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCabcNd5rdI-FlHW6ecXQvLQ/featured He is now host of the show, Truth Wanted. This is a call-in show about getting to the bottom of beliefs. Be sure to follow the show on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/229569754409166/ Twitter: @ObjectivelyDan          

Here's a quick update :) Thanks for listening!

Nicki's story has so many twists and turns, I absolutely loved it! This episode flies by. Her Dad saw Jesus in the passenger seat of his truck. Her mom became a prophet. Nicki learns to read people, crack eggs on their heads and help women become pregnant through prayer. She goes to beauty school and rebels, then become's the prodigal child. She meets the perfect Christian husband and starts a family.  When doubts persist, she seeks out life-changing counseling. The fallout is significant. As an ex-Christian, Nicki finds her friendships are incredibly important.

What a great conversation! At a young age Christine's family moved from New York to Oklahoma, so her mom could train to be an evangelist at Oral Roberts University. Her childhood memories include, nearly memorizing the movie Jesus of Nazareth and road trips to see evangelists Benny Hinn and R.W. Schambach! Despite being saturated in charismatic Christianity, Christine struggled with guilt from, as she put it "not feeling it, like other Christians felt it". Nevertheless, Christine sought God with all her heart. She is now an atheist and started the brand new podcast, Forsaking Faith with her friend Heather Bailey (hear Heather's story in episode 041) http://voicesofdeconversion.com/home/2018/5/26/041-heather-bailey-forsaking-faith-podcast-co-host-from-dancing-charismatic-to-agnostic).  The theme of friendship, specifically genuine friendship with Christians, is an important part of Christine's story. This kindness expressed by both Christine and Heather carries over into their podcast.  Forsaking Faith is a much needed podcast, so check it out and tell a friend :)   https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/forsaking-faith   Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/forsakingfaith/   Twitter: https://twitter.com/SecularHangouts @SecularHangouts https://twitter.com/ForsakingFaith @forsakingfaith   The Happiness Hypothesis: https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Hypothesis-Finding-Modern-Ancient/dp/0465028020    

I had such a great time talking with Eva! Our interview has a different flow than most episodes, but it's a nice change of pace. We discuss a variety of topics: How people on the island are still recovering from hurricane Maria, politics in Puerto Rico and some awesome work being done by Secular Humanists of Puerto Rico.  Additionally, she shares some exciting news about freethinkers in South America! There was a first ever conference and Dan Barker (you'll remember him from episode 001 of the podcast) was one of the featured speakers. We touch on Eva's path to Humanist Agnostic-Atheism about halfway through. Eva tells some great stories and has a great sense of humor.  http://www.humanistaspr.org https://twitter.com/HumanistasPR @EvaSecularista      

Ric was born and raised in the Philippines. He was baptized as an infant into the Roman Catholic church. Ric teaches me about Anticipated Mass and how malls in the Philippines host Catholic Mass!  Ric loved biology and evolution from a young age. We discuss the different ways catholics and evangelicals view science. A big life lesson that Ric gained in deconversion was leaving the fatalistic thinking of a christian and learning self-determination. This is a HUGE part of so many of our deconversions, mine included! It's an amazing moment when you realize that you're in control and don't need to have "Jesus take the wheel" (as Ric jokingly noted).   https://www.riccalioliojr.com http://filipinofreethinkers.org http://iheu.org VICE Article: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3k7jx8/too-many-atheists-are-veering-dangerously-toward-the-alt-right  

This is such a remarkable story... He's only been out from behind the pulpit for 6 months! He served as a minister for 26 years. This story has so many twists and turns, ups and downs.   I can't begin to tell you all the fascinating moments L.A. shares with me today. He's joined by his wife T. They decided to use their nicknames for today's interview. From a radio contract that seemed promising, to a tearful proclamation that he's been called to be a pastor. Later in life L.A. and T experience a terrible loss, but their faith is strong. They encounter the fraudulent leaders of Evangelical America, but their faith persists. L.A. is even named a top 300 minister in America. A chance trip to India changes everything!  You can reach LA or T at: lemrich@mac.com or check out LA's blog www.freshla.me LA and T were also interviewed by Vice News on HBO December 20, 2018.  https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/qvq5a7/what-happens-to-religious-professionals-when-they-stop-believing-in-god https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zwcwHbSaGQ