Podcast appearances and mentions of max yoder

On this very special episode of Courageous Help, we're joined by Paige McPheely and Casey Putschoegl live at Base's Admin Week Summit. Paige and Casey are long-time friends who co-founded two companies: 33Vincent and Base. Today, they lead the team at Base as CEO and President, working toward a clear mission to make the world's leaders and assistants more productive and successful through innovative technology. They share how they ultimately came to create two companies for assistants based on the undeniable leverage this role provides for companies and people, the most impactful things an assistant has ever done for them, and where they see the future of support roles going in the next handful of years.  Connect with Casey and Paige on LinkedIn.  Resources mentioned in the episode:  Base, the modern solution for Executive Assistants Armored Versus Daring Leadership, Part 1 Armored Versus Daring Leadership, Part 2 “Do Better Work” by Max Yoder

On this episode Jordan talks with Max Yoder, CEO & Co-Founder of Lessonly. Lessonly had been building training software to help teams learn, practice, and do better work until it was recently acquired by Seismic, another player in the same space. Max has also authored two books, including To See It, Be It, which is full of notes on business and life.   Max shares his philosophy on how companies can strive to work more thoughtfully. He wants more love and compassion in the workplace, meaning a willingness to be vulnerable and greater understanding when those around us make mistakes. But he cautions against empathy as its own end: while it can be useful, it wears down people's batteries.   Looking to build your own BragWorthy Culture? Fringe can help. Fringe is the number one lifestyle benefits platform. Give your people the power of choice and save a ton of administrative headaches by consolidating existing vendors and programs into a simple, automated platform. Contact us at Fringe.us.

Max Yoder is a renowned, successful and highly respected entrepreneur, visionary and thought leader. He is husband to Jess, dad to Marni, CEO and co-founder of Lessonly, and author of Do Better Work and To See It, Be It. He lives in Indianapolis, where he enjoys walking, talking, napping, reading, and writing. In this fun, deep and insightful episode, Max talks about the impact of growing up next to a funeral home, the importance of having great mentors, the story behind the Lessonly llama mascot, spirituality and the meaning/purpose of life, the downsides of social media, impactful books and thought leaders, and a moment of clarity he experienced dealing with the death of a close friend.  Connect with Max Yoder on LinkedIn Learn more about Lessonly by Seismic  Sponsors: Ninety.io Straticos Buy your copy of Level-UP To Professional: Second Edition  

How do I bring out the best in an employee who has been mandated to a program of professional development — and they absolutely do not want to engage. This sounds like an “eat your vegetables” kind of moment. Am I right? When I first hear this question a knot in my stomach forms >> mandated training just goes against my grain. Yet, when I settle myself down a bit. I know of several situations where I am a firm believer in mandated training. Let me reflect on three of them . . .  Safety – You just can't opt out of this kind of information that could save your life or the life of another person. In this case I would be an advocate for mandated training. Legal - Some churches and nonprofits can get themselves into a mess because they didn't know what they were supposed to know. Mandating this kind of training may be the only way to emphasize its importance because it will never feel immediate until it's too late. Skills development – This third one is probably a little “on the fence” for me. What if you have someone on the team who doesn't have a particular skill that the job really needs. If their job is at risk and it's a critical skill you might need them to develop to do the job. Let's say this third situation is your dilemma. What can you do to reduce resistance? WHAT IS THE “INVITATION” BEHIND THE MANDATE? As a leader we are often the instigators of decisions so we see it deeper. We've had more time to let it “soak” in. You might need to give them the same “on ramp” and time that you have had to see the need and soak in the impact. That's the invitation behind the mandate. Max Yoder in Do Better Work says, “People don't change when they are told to. They change when they're inspired and motivated to.” WHAT IS THE SOURCE OF THEIR RESISTANCE? If you do decide to dig into the resistance, you might find a key that you can unlock to bring out their best – even if it's mandated training that they absolutely do not want to engage. Download a list of questions to brainstorm ways to get below the surface and gain insight into the resistance. UNDERSTAND THEIR LEARNING STYLE People do learn in different ways. I recently did a blog series on different ways we like to learn based on our Myers Briggs Personality Style. Some people are more hands on, others more academic, others learn better with others, still others might be interested in some kinds of content and disinterested in other kinds. Check out more in the Learning Styles Blog Series. If you know their learning style you could look for ways to supplement the mandated training or adjust the training in ways that might connect to how they like to learn.  SOMETIMES YOU CAN'T MANAGE RESISTANCE… Even if the conversation doesn't lead to less resistance, you've still planted a seed that may have an impact even if it wasn't readily received. The best you can do is keep the conversation going.  LINKS TO CHECK OUT: Send your question HERE – in writing or by recording  Annie's Blog: Learning Style Series Episode 19: Recovering from Mistakes Learn more about Annie

In July of 2019, Lessonly Co-Founder Max Yoder joined High Alpha Speaker Series to discuss his book, Do Better Work. In this episode we revisit his overview of the themes from his book, including how to share before you're ready, getting more agreements, and having difficult conversations. No matter your rank, role, or team, the advice in this episode will lead to better understanding, accountability, and progress. Since this recording Lessonly, one of our very first High Alpha Studio companies, was acquired by sales and marketing enablement leader Seismic.

Culture, when built correctly can be your key differentiator. When built incorrectly it can be your Achilles' heel.Today we do a deep dive into the founding story of Indianapolis darling startup Lessonly. Lessonly is a market leader in training software and was acquired by San Diego-based Seismic in 2021.We sit down with co-founders Max Yoder and Conner Burt to discuss Lessonly's development over the last decade and why culture has always been a North Star in the companies evolution.Max and Conner both started their professional career by means of the Orr Fellowship, a two-year, Indianapolis-based fellowship focused on developing the next generation of business leaders and entrepreneurs.Max began working on Lessonly after winding down his first startup. Conner was working in sales at ExactTarget (acquired by Salesforce) at the time. The two were roommates and Conner became an early adopter of the original Lessonly platform, where he used it to help train an international sales team of ExactTarget.Learn more about the Lessonly journey and hear the words of wisdom this dynamic duo has about growing a high-performing, venture-backed tech company.If you like this episode, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes. You can also follow on Soundcloud or Stitcher.Join the Powderkeg community

We talk to Max Yoder, CEO, and co-founder of Lessonly. Founded in 2012, Lessonly has grown to almost 300 employees. Max talks about Lessonly's origins, the people who helped along the way, and the Seismic acquisition.Video and Transcript Available at: https://techpoint.org/2021/12/the-circuit-max-yoder-ceo-of-lessonly/

Culture, when built correctly can be your key differentiator. When built incorrectly it can be your Achilles' heel. Today we do a deep dive into the founding story of Indianapolis darling startup Lessonly. Lessonly is a market leader in training software and was acquired by San Diego-based Seismic in 2021. We sit down with co-founders Max Yoder and Conner Burt to discuss Lessonly's development over the last decade and why culture has always been a North Star in the companies evolution. Max and Conner both started their professional career by means of the Orr Fellowship, a two-year, Indianapolis-based fellowship focused on developing the next generation of business leaders and entrepreneurs. Max began working on Lessonly after winding down his first startup. Conner was working in sales at ExactTarget (acquired by Salesforce) at the time. The two were roommates and Conner became an early adopter of the original Lessonly platform, where he used it to help train an international sales team of ExactTarget. Learn more about the Lessonly journey and hear the words of wisdom this dynamic duo has about growing a high-performing, venture-backed tech company. If you like this episode, please subscribe and leave us a review on iTunes. You can also follow us on Soundcloud or Stitcher.

Welcome back to the RecruitingDaily Podcast! Today we welcome Max Yoder, CEO of Lessonly and friend, to talk about doing better work and living a better life. If you want to see it, be it; we love that sentiment and are so happy to share this conversation and Max's novels with you today. We've been lucky enough to have Max on as a guest before and are always excited to speak with him, mostly so we have a chance to share one of the best LinkedIn bios ever: "Every day, I am grateful that I got cut from the basketball team two years in a row."Aside from being CEO to Lessonly, a training software that helps people, teams and customer service teams learn in practice, he is also a husband, father and author of Do Better Work and To See It, Be It.  Max hails out of Indianapolis, is a fan of the little things, and we just so happen to know he's also a talented musician that can be found on Spotify. Do Better Work explores eight ways anyone can be a better teammate and is an Amazon #1 bestseller in the business teams and workplace behavior categories. To See It, Be is a hand-picked collection of Max's intimate notes about what he has learned and is still learning in work and life. Its purpose is simple: these moments have helped Max lead in a balanced, authentic way, and he would like to share that inspiration with you. A few things we cover today: Where did the incentive for Max's books come from? What has been most impactful for others in his sharing? Is there anything in the books that no longer resonates with Max in current time?There's a lot more, of course! This is an enlightening and empowering conversation; we implore you to listen. Also, please check out Max's work and let us know what you think.

– Adam Weber One of the I think keys to genuine empathy is through consistent one on one and how you display empathy, like, structurally inside of an organization. So, for example, a one on one is that place where as a manager, you can create safety with your team and with your direct reports and create a vulnerable relationship where you really do know what's going on inside of their world in their life   INTRO Sometimes, when you hear from leaders, you are inundated with their success stories:  their key tips to making your life or company just as successful as theirs has been.  And the whole thing can kind of seem a little unattainable and aspirational.   Which is one of the things that I love about today's interview with Adam Weber, the Senior Vice President for 15Five.  Adam is one of those highfliers whose work is marked by successes, whether that is leading HR professionals in HR Superstars or successfully growing and then selling Emplify as a co-founder.    But my conversation with Adam isn't just a series of success stories.  He is going to tell you about moments where he was NOT his best self, where as a young founder under tons of stress, he created distance instead of connection…and what he learned from it.  Along with a lot of other great content.   Adam is a structure guy, so be ready for some really actionable suggestions.  Adam is also the author of “Lead Like a Human”. Great title!  He has a wife, two sons, and a dog named Poppy and he loves spending time in nature, camping, and bird-watching.  I hope you enjoy today's conversation as much as I did.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Adam, I'm so glad to have you as a guest today. Welcome.   - Adam Weber It's good to be here. Liesel. Thank you so much.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yes. So a question that I oftentimes get in my work is defining what empathy looks like in the workplace. And I know that you're someone who has worked a lot professionally and written and thought about connection in the workplace. How would you define empathy at work? What does it look like?   - Adam Weber I think it work. Empathy at work, I think, is seeing your employees as whole people as their whole sales and just in recognizing that they have things that are moving in their life that are outside of work, they have aspects of things that work that are impacting them that maybe you're unaware of. And so just taking that holistic perspective of each person and the unique experience that they're having and translating that and how you relate to them.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Thank you for that. I have found as I work with different companies as I meet with individuals that oftentimes when people like get it, when they feel really resonant with the importance of empathy and connection in the workplace, it comes out of a place of personal experience. They've had some touch points with either needing empathy and care or being in the position of giving it in a way that was really impactful. I'd love for you to share a story of when you've either really needed care in the workplace or when it's been really important for you to give it.   - Adam Weber Yeah. I think I have two stories that come to mind. The first is maybe how early in my career I was able to practice empathy in a way that helped me see the value in it. I started in my career when I was 22 to 25. I was the pastor of a Church, and it's a story for a different day, but basically became the head pastor when I was 25, never given a sermon in my life. Wow. And was trying to support and was really the only staff person for two to 300 people and was trying to support them when in reality, like, I was just still really young myself.   - Adam Weber And I think through that experience, a lot of people opened up to me about their lives. And you got to be a part of some of those high moments, like weddings, but also you're very much in the midst of really, really difficult situations. And so during that season, I think I learned a lot about just the value of sitting with people through hard things. It was during that time that one of my very best friends had ALS and he passed away and over an 18 month period.   - Adam Weber But, you know, every Tuesday and Thursday, we sat together that entire time and have lunch together. And I think just being with him and watching him go through that experience was something that really built empathy with me. So that's may be on just like, the personal side of, like, really early. I got a little bit thrown into the fire of empathy and being just being with others.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yeah. And I know that you have a second story, but I love it. Could I just interrupt you for a second? Because I'm struck with the dynamics of that story, something that I find myself facilitating a lot around is compassion, fatigue and talking. Or even Adam Grant use the term languishing recently. That sense of like, I don't know if I can give to anybody else because I feel so drained myself. You're young. You are responsible for the sole care of all of these people. I'm sure you have things going on in your own life.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes You have this personal friend, so you're watching an emotional journey of watching him die. How were you finding equilibrium and places to be filled up for yourself so you could keep giving to others in a way that mattered?   - Adam Weber That is a great question. I think what's interesting about being 25 is at that time. I don't think I did it with a lot of intention. I think when I reflect back on that time, there was a lot of kind of giving on empty without making sure that I was in a place of health myself. And one of the things maybe later in my career, I have realized the value for myself is making sure that I'm giving. One of the things I've noticed for me is that I need solitude.   - Adam Weber I'm a person who naturally is drawn to other people and wants to be a part of their lives. And if I don't give myself space to restore and space to make sure I'm my whole complete self, I end up kind of crossing, twisting the wires of giving in a way that is healthy for myself. I wonder sometimes when I look back on that season, there's a natural part to that where I was just kind of being myself an inflow and giving in a way that's comfortable.   - Adam Weber And I think there's probably another part of it that was just a little needy that really was really empty and didn't have great pathways to and to kind of restore myself, too. Which is probably why at the end of that year transitioned away from it. You know, I don't think I was acting in a way the problem is sustainable in my own life. Actually.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Thank you for that vulnerability. And even as I look back in to what my body and my person seemingly had the capacity to just absorb and keep churning. In my twenties, I'm like, oh, my gosh, that was a lot that probably wasn't healthy, but there's a certain hubris to that stage of life where you think I can just keep going.   - Adam Weber Yeah, there's an infinite amount of energy and there's an altruism that's really beautiful, I think with, like, a willingness to, like, I can change the world, you know? And there is some truth to that. I think there's also some wisdom that maybe came a little later for me, too.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I interrupted your flow, though. You were telling the first personal story. I'd love to hear that second story that you had in your back pocket as well.   - Adam Weber Well, the second one, really, like, set in motion. I had a windy career for the first ten years, kind of going from pastor to academic advisor, entry level job, entry level job, entry level sales job. And then I kind of stumbled into doing a start up about a decade ago and starting it with my business partner, Santiago, who was a week out of College at the time. So I'm ten years into my career. I've got two kids and we start this start up. I have no experience at all.   - Adam Weber And immediately just the company just started to grow. And I went from kind of being a one person employee to having a team. And in the very beginning of that process, I felt so overwhelmed and I felt so stressed that I started to follow some of the negative patterns that I saw and managers that led me prior. And remember, there's a couple of specific moments, but where I just was not being myself and I was creating barriers between my employees, the people I was interviewing, I just wasn't leading in a way that was sustainable for me.   - Adam Weber I was trying to act in a way that I thought managers and leaders were supposed to act. And I think during that time, I just hit a bit of a breaking point, like, because of how hard startups are in general, I was like, I'm not going to be able to sustain this if I try to do it. Like, I think everybody else is supposed to lead.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes And what was that looking like? I just love for you to flesh that out a little bit more. You were like, this is the way it should be done.   - Adam Weber And it looks like what I think it looked a little bit like the authoritarian, the kind of Industrial Revolution leader. The leading is a disconnected self where, like, I was one way at home. But then I'd show up to work. And just like, I wasn't that there would be, like, curtains or anger or there would be kind of, like, spouting off orders as opposed to, like, truly listening and collaborating like things like that. Or it would just be like, when you're interviewing someone instead of, like, coming up with your own way that you interview people that I was following, a guide, that when I would do it.   - Adam Weber I was like, this just doesn't feel like me.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yeah. You're moving into uncharted territories. And I find that in my life and in those I work with, it's easy to work off of a template instead of doing some of the work that it sounds like you are beginning to engage in. Like, is this representative of me and my best energy?   - Adam Weber That's exactly right. I think the template phrase is a good summary of what that season felt like for me.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes So what was the inflection point for you? I imagine you are not still operating out of that place of discontent.   - Adam Weber You know, the inflection point. I was actually in the middle of an interview with someone who I still work with to this day. She's someone who I feel like I've had a really great relationship with and invested a lot into her life. But in the middle of her interview process, I was following a template, and I looked at her resume, and she took a gap year, which is super cool, by the way. Took a year to Europe right after College, and I followed this guide where you're supposed to do high pressure interviews and super awkward pause about her gap interview.   - Adam Weber And it was really uncomfortable in the moment. I was like, Gosh, I just was like, I can't do this for this is not me. But then simultaneously, I actually damaged our relationship, even though we had never met at the time. And it took us a year, truly a year to get to the spot where she really trusted me and where she felt like she actually knew who I was because this initial impression was not actually the person that I was. And so I think that interview was really that moment was really a turning point for me.   - Adam Weber That kind of set my entire trajectory and career around focusing on leaders, focusing on what good leadership looks like that I really think that moment and, you know, just full to take that story full circle. By the way, when we sold our business in April and she sent me a text, the same person sent me a text and said, There is not a person other than my mother who's impacted my life more than you and which I saved. And that was a hall of Fame. Probably one of the most powerful messages I've ever received, especially in the workplace.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yeah.   - Adam Weber I think the reason it was so meaningful to is because of how much that moment was transformative in my leadership.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Right. Well, and I'm struck there's a certain level of intuition and engagement that is necessary to know that there has been damage done to a relationship, to be able to look back and be like, it took us a year. How are you seeing that disconnect expressed? And I'd love to delve into it specifically, because especially as leaders, there are, we don't know, necessarily when the impactful moment will be, which is really like an encouragement to be showing up as our healthiest best cells less. We do damage.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes But over the course of that year, were you realizing in real time, like, oh, there's kind of something in between us.   - Adam Weber Yeah. I think it's one thing. It's something sometimes you can sense, but you don't know because we don't really know each other. And this was one facet of who she was attaching a lot of significance to a situation that was not my best version of myself either.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Right.   - Adam Weber I think it was, you know, throughout the year as I started to really improve, like, one of the I think keys to genuine empathy is through consistent one on one and how you display empathy, like, structurally inside of an organization. So, for example, a one on one is that place where as a manager, you can create safety with your team and with your direct reports and create a vulnerable relationship where you really do know what's going on inside of their world in their life, like how they're doing.   - Adam Weber And just in those moments, I think that it was kind of in those one on one. As I started to improve how I built relationships with people in the workplace and how I uncovered how they were doing and how I could help that just could sense kind of consistent, like, just like walls, walls. I think that were put up that we had to work through. And then I think also that her experience was different as other people started to come there like, that doesn't feel like a person doesn't feel like Adam.   - Adam Weber That's not the Adam I know. And so I just think with time now, I mean, what's so cool about that is now we've worked together for eight and a half years. Right. So we're in a really different spot. But obviously we were then, which is really cool and pretty rare, by the way, to hire someone when they're right out of College. I got to work with them for that long. I think that's a pretty neat thing   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes To get to be able to see their growth trajectory. Well, I like something that you alluded to, which is the things that we can do structurally to build connection. And I know that that has actually been, like a big part of just the product and your professional movement in the world. So I'd love for you to tell me more about some of the best practices that you've seen. And you work with Amplify. And now with 15 five in what companies can be doing to think structurally about.   - Adam Weber There's a handful of things that come to mind because I also think sometimes topics like this can feel overwhelming, but if you get really practical, you can start to see where these different containers are inside your organization to create trusted, empathetic relationships at the manager level, I think is really like where this is the most powerful because that's where the relationships are the most personal. And so if I think about a new manager, maybe think about my own story. Often times they were a top performing individual contributor.   - Adam Weber They got promoted, they never got any training. They have super high goals. They're feeling overstressed. And then what they do innately is they start to carry and transition that stress over to their team. And they create kind of environments of chaos and confusion as opposed to clarity and team alignment. So one example of that was good.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I just want to recognize that's so accurate to the pain points that I observe again and again. Please continue. But what was well stated.   - Adam Weber This is my world, though. These observations are pretty much what I spent all my time observing and helping companies with. And so I think for that manager, like, there's two really key containers for them. I think where they can show empathy. The first is what typically happens is on that manager is just kind of follow that path I just shared as they show up on Monday. They bring all the stress that is above them straight into that meeting on Monday morning. And it's like you can feel it in the atmosphere.   - Adam Weber They bring in the stress, they bring in their own issues. They bring in whatever those things. And it really changes how it feels inside of just at that team level. And that type of environment really, like put walls up for people being like themselves. And so just a small switch, which is at the start of every week before we get to the stressors and the goals. And that all of those things before we do those things. What we first do is we just hear about what happened over the weekend just to create the rhythm and the habit to understand the phrase I use is there's always a story behind everyone's story.   - Adam Weber And it's like, how do we make sure that we are just keeping those dialogues open to hear what's going on inside of your world, inside of your life, inside of what's happening outside of work. So that's one and that's in a group setting, and then the way you transition that forward, then it's end of that one on one setting as well. I mean, just a really small change to a one on one for a manager of just never starting the one on one, really checking your own energy and checking your own priorities at the door and showing up and being willing to listen first, be curious first and invest in their lives first.   - Adam Weber And then it just unlocks so much as far as being able to understand their world, being able to support them and actually helping you achieve your own goals for your team, that sort of thing. So those are two at the manager level.   - Adam Weber I think at the company level, how you can display empathy. One that I'm passionate about is we measure amplify measure engagement for companies. And while that is a neat thing, what's powerful about measuring is when the CEO says the thing out loud, that's hard about the company that everyone else knows. They just don't know that the leadership knows when a CEO says, you know what? Everyone thank you so much for your candid feedback. It is clear that our goals are currently not attainable, and it's really impacting how you're feeling and showing up at work today or how you're showing up at work in this season.   - Adam Weber There is power in that at the company level, when you can show empathy at the macro scale, to the experience of the company.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes The acknowledgement of the pain point. I'm thinking, like burr under the saddle, sort of a reality.   - Adam Weber Yeah, because it just it diffuses the tension. It's not even that we have it solved. It's just that we all understand that this is real, that we're all working through now. We're not a perfect organization. We're making progress. But I am aware of the same thing that you are aware of. And I think that that built a lot of trust and empathy as well. And then there's policies from an HR perspective, there's small things. One of the things I thought was so profound that 15 five are really it's huge for people going through it.   - Adam Weber It's small in the realm of the impact to the benefits, bottom line or something. But our 15 five has a child bereavement policy like something that small. That when you come into the organization and it's it just shows a level of care and compassion for the whole person, for their world and for their experience or during COVID. We had family members who passed away. And so how as a company, not just as the manager, but how as a company, do we sit with and support people who are going through really, really challenging times?   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yeah. I have found in the conversations that I'm having policies never seem top of mind until they're suddenly top of mind. I'm like, oh, that's our policy. And whether that's our berievement leave policy says you have to have proof of death or it's only for immediate family members. We give people three days, and that doesn't take into account COVID related travel or all the sorts of things. And to pay attention to those things, it does feel impacted because especially as people are having so many more moments to touch on that.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I was just seeing someone's LinkedIn post about needing to bring, like, a bulletin from extended family members funeral to prove that they weren't just lying for time off and just how cheap that made it feel. But it was the policy, and nobody looked at the policy for a decade.   - Adam Weber Yeah. And there's I don't even know what to say about.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yeah, so sad about it.   - Adam Weber I'm picturing that's just the Seinfield episode. I know George Castanza's trying to get his flight covered in your right. This is how it's supposed to be.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Well, you just think policy, the eternalist. Like how like your fourth grade teacher being like, did you really go to use the bathroom with your hall pass or you just cutting class? Yeah.   - Adam Weber There is just I think underneath that there is such a lack of trust, right? There is like, we don't trust you, even with really hard aspects of your life like you're not trusted, I think, is at least the underlying message that an employee would receive through.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Well, like a meta level. If you're conveying yourself as a leadership team and a company that can't exercise trust, there's probably some trickle down questions that need to come up. What does that say about how we hire people? Or what does that say about how we manage people in an ongoing basis that we continue to have the perception of people that we can't trust? There's probably questions about other areas of your people operations if that really feels true or change your possible.   - Adam Weber And I also think every employee asks themselves, Is this company worth my best?   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yeah.   - Adam Weber They have a level they're willing to give. And I think a small things like having to get a funeral bulletin. I think our create marks for people to go. This isn't worth my best. I might give time, but it's not going to be my best, right. And I'm not sure that I blame them. I don't I I'm not sure I wouldn't do the same.   MUSICAL TRANSITION   Are you giving your people what they need to stay engaged in the midst of all of the disruptive life events that are coming at them?  I deeply resonated with how Adam described the managerial journey:  the stress that comes from suddenly having to manage and inspire and care for people.  It is just hard, especially right now.  And I hear, again and again from companies, that they want to be able to support the mental wellness of their people but they just don't know how.  Handle with Care Consulting can help.  Empathy is a skill that can be learned and we can train you.  We have targeted keyontes, tailored to your pain points and industry, Empathy at Work Certificate programs, and coaching options.  Empathy doesn't have to be difficult, reach out for a free consultation.   MUSICAL TRANSITION   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes What is a time or a contributing factor that really it felt difficult to build connection with a given person or a team in your working career.   - Adam Weber I think for me just myself, I think where I run into issues is when I get overstressed in general. And then I think I start to project at times on to other people, or I try to take that stress that I'm feeling and I push it to others, which is not a very empathetic posture. And so I think that has always been the thing I've had to be mindful of it. And startups, you really do have to be a venture backed funded startups are not for the faint of heart.   - Adam Weber They are very stressful environments where you're growing quickly. So the business is changing every twelve to 16 weeks. It's like a whole different place, and there's a lot of pressure. And so I think finding balance in the midst of pressure in the midst of feeling overstressed. Like, I think those are the times for me, as opposed to like an individual, like one individual or things like that. It's when I get a little bit too inward focused to be thoughtful of other people.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yeah, for some reason, what connects is even on a personal level. As a parent, I know when I am feeling like meta stress, whether that's work related or going back and forth with the roofing guys who are doing the hail damage and those sorts of things really can pull from my ability to be present, fostering joy, contributing to a shared sense of a espirit de corps  with my children that feels very resonant on a personal level, as you were talking about that, especially in a startup culture. What did that look like for you?   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes And maybe there's like a day or a season that comes to mind, but whether it's coming out of a tough meeting about metrics or thinking about the steps towards Series A, what would that look like with your team when you were feeling preoccupied like that, how would you begin to interact with them?   - Adam Weber Yeah, these aren't like my finest moments, but I think there were some memories or some thoughts I have that I go back to early where we're trying to take a thing that's nothing and turn it into something. And I was working as hard as I possibly could and overworking. I think during that season and sometimes during like, end of week metrics or views, it would be painful for me just to hear other people's metrics and feel like maybe they weren't working as hard as I was now with some perspective.   - Adam Weber I'm like they also weren't owners in the business. I think I got to understand now, but at the time that was really painful for me and I had a really hard time just sitting and understanding. And I think when you lead with frustration, it makes it really challenging to understand what their actual blockers are. Then you're not really collaborating with them on the solution. You've just decided that you're frustrated at that in the interview story. Actually, those two scenarios were pretty much the foundation of what caused that kind of leadership change in my own life.   - Adam Weber In that first year of the startup, there was a moment where I like walking out where people are sharing metrics, and I just left the meeting and I think that was another one where with some time I was like, alright, I need to really think about what it means to be a leader and how I sit with people and invest in people and even the other side of that. How do I set clear expectations or agreements where we're both mutually aligned? So I'm not just disappointed, but we have a shared clarity on what we're working towards.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Right in just my last interview was with Max Yoder and he was talking about expectations versus agreements. And I thought, oh, yeah. That's so true. If it's just my expectation, then I either need to be able to release it because I didn't make it known to you, or we need to transition to an agreement where we're both on the same page. And I thought that that repeats itself in personal lives and work live hear that?   - Adam Weber Yes. Exactly. Sounds like he nailed it, by the way. So I will just to build on that concept. This is why I think things like role clarity, things like clearly define goals, what those really give to our genuine agreements, not just expectations between employees and managers. And I actually think as tactical as those sound, that those create more empathetic workforces because it creates clarity inside the organization. It creates clarity of what is expected of me. So that's one part of what it does. So then we're all now collaborating on the same things instead of just like a manager who is constantly disappointed, constantly frustrated, who then puts up walls and isn't willing to collaborate, sit with the person, help them grow.   - Adam Weber And the other thing it does is that when something challenging happens in that person's life, if there's role clarity and there's clear goals, there's ways for people to know how to step up.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes So you are in a high pressure environment in startup culture where I imagine that I don't know, maybe even more regularly than quarterly. You were having to pivot and move, and maybe like, finesse where we're going and what we're doing.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes How did you find that you were able to maintain that sense of clarity in the midst of an ecosystem that was kind of changing around you pretty rapidly? Or maybe I'm not describing that ecosystem correctly.   - Adam Weber I think you're describing it correctly. I think it depends on what season of the journey. So in the beginning, I think I did a relatively poor job of that. I think first time entrepreneurs, it's like the new idea always feels like the most important idea. And with time. And so there was rapid pivoting. But I'm not sure that it was always wise. And then with time, I think what we did was we really, really buttoned up, how we align as a company, on what's the most important thing and then but then also understand that things change and adjust and have good ways to what we call it triage, triage adjustments and pivot, as opposed to doing them kind of like the day, radically or inconsistently.   - Adam Weber And I think that creates stability for the employees, too. When you kind of peel back the curtain on here's how we build strategy here's how we pivot strategy, so that for them, it doesn't just feel like constant whiplash within that triage.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes You describe so many points of learning in your journey as a leader. A couple of years ago, you took the time to put this all down in book form and lead like a Human, which is a book that I have and have really enjoyed as a tool of insight and a reference point even in the work that I do, I'm wondering. It's it's your own, like baby bringing forth into the world now that it's had a couple of years to toddle around out there, what is the impact that you've seen?   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes And is there any part of the book that you just feel like is especially important right now?   - Adam Weber Yeah. I think one of the things that I really appreciated about writing the book, obviously, I shared a lot about my early part of management, but I think once I turn the corner and really gave the time to figure out, like, it's hard work, I think to figure out how to become a leader that other people want to work for. It unlocked my own life. It unlocked the performance of my team. It unlocked a lot of their personal lives. And so it's a journey that's been really meaningful to me.   - Adam Weber But I will say, when you do start ups, there's an interesting part of it, but the whole time, it feels really temporary. You kind of know it's going to end. And so I think one of the things with the book that I'm really thankful for is that it's a little bit more permanent. It was spot on time when I wrote it, but it lasts. And so it's a nice juxtaposition, I think with a start up and similar to I was a songwriter early kind of when I was right out of College and a lot of the songs I wrote I find really challenging today.   - Adam Weber Like, I think about some of the things I was writing about.   - Adam Weber I go, wow, it's interesting, like a spot in time, but it's got this permanence to it, and the book is like that I think for me and that there are aspects of it. I write. I go, wow, this is really challenging for me like that to actually live some of this stuff out myself, too, in a new season. The one the one that I think is the chapter that's been the most valuable for me is called centeredness.   - Adam Weber And the reason why it actually goes all the way back to the very beginning of our conversation today is that I didn't have the tools early in my career to find my own grounding and to find my own wholeness and recognize that when I am in that place, then I can put all these other practices in place that allow me to lead in a more human way. And so it's without being too prescriptive because I really didn't want it to feel prescriptive. I want it to be each person's individual journey, but I do think there's an aspect of it that is just have I thoughtfully looked at my own life and what things are working in my life and what things are restorative to me and allow me to connect to, like my whole connect itself so that I can show up in a steady, consistent way in the workplace.   - Adam Weber That's probably the one over time. I think that I think the most I reflect back on the most.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yeah. And what guidance would you offer? Reflection is definitely the first step, but for individuals who are starting to take account and go, oh, that's not congruent or Gee, that's really crappy and painful. That's got to be different for me to be able to stay in this for the long term.   - Adam Weber Yeah. I think there's some version for everyone of self reflection, like how do I take the time to analyze or think about how I'm showing up in the world and with my team? And I think that is both done. Personally, I do this myself. One of the things I do is I just actually Journal and cursive, and I just write what the feeling people still use cursive.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes The elementary school teachers would be so proud.   - Adam Weber I might be the last one, but it's not active for me, I think, because it forces me to go slow. That's what I like about it, which is probably why it doesn't exist anymore, but really just try to write my emotions, right what I'm feeling and how I'm showing up. So one is like doing the self reflection yourself the other, especially if you're a leader, is just like to make sure you have someone outside of your scenario, but who knows you well enough? Who can tell you the truth of how you're showing up?   - Adam Weber I think that part is really important because most leaders just get lied to constantly and they don't know it because of role power. And it's really important to have people that you trust, who will tell you the truth about who you are and how you're showing up so that you can make progress and work on it. And then I think for me, the gratitude practices that have worked for me in my life like I do these gratitude walks. It's because I have a busy mind, and when I walk, it's just a little easier to stay focused and things like that.   - Adam Weber But I don't want to prescribe the actual activity. I think it's for you. What are those activities? What are the things? Is that exercise? Is that hiking? Is it once a week or once a month, you block out a day where you don't work, but you just take time to do something restorative for you.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes That's good. I especially like the part about leaders being lied to and not knowing it. I think that is that's descriptively true for so many people.   - Adam Weber I also think that's why I have a lot of empathy for CEOs and why I just have a heart for the CEO experience in the journey because I think it's really lonely for a CEO because I think one most of the time, everything you say people respond as if it's awesome and people are lying to you a lot, and they're not being because you hold their job in their hands and their family, security and all of these things. And if you show up every single day without having these, like, I think I have empathy for how lonely and isolating that feels for people.   - Adam Weber And a lot of times they're unaware that that's happening to them, right?   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Building empathy and connection always has its challenges. There's this added layer right now of the particular challenges of the pandemic of social issues that feel really divisive of a continued uncertainty about how we're structuring workplace policies, not knowing what's going to happen with our kids in schooling and all of these challenges. What have you found really is helpful in continuing to move the needle on connection and care in the workplace, specifically within COVID-19.   - Adam Weber I think one aspect is that just to take a little the pressure off yourself of trying to solve it. This is a big thing that's happening in the world, and it's happening to all of us. And so there's no perfect answer. There's no perfect policy, there's nothing perfect. You can say there's no burnout vacation thing that's going to immediately make things better. So maybe just like, releasing yourself with the pressure that this is, like, yours to fix in isolation. But the most impactful thing I think leaders can do right now is just have conversations and just be in on the conversations.   - Adam Weber Burnout is a really good example, because it is like we're on, like, Wave five of burnout. I didn't even know what level of burnout it is, and it's impacting all of us in ways that we don't even know how to articulate ourselves to. There's this part of me, like, even with the Great Resignation to, like, not take it so personally to allow people just to be where they are. And some people now, there's a part right before the acquisition where some of our very first employees left, people are very, very close to.   - Adam Weber And there's a part of that where you just have to recognize that, like, when you go through something that's significant in the world, sometimes you just need change. You just need change. It's not personal. It's not about the leader. It's not about the business. It's like, hey, there's a lot going on, and I just need something different.   - Adam Weber I wish I could give you a perfect answer. I just think this is such a hard. I think it's such a hard topic because I just don't think any of us are immune to this. And I just think it's like, when you're in the middle of a story, you don't really know the answer to it. You just need to just kind of be in it and acknowledge that you're in it and maybe give space for your employees to also be like, it's okay that they're in it too.   - Adam Weber I think I feel like the thing that isn't going to work, like, even with the great resignation, for example, is I think if you can be charitable with people as their departing, I just hate to feel really at the whole tenor around people leaving is so negative, and I find it exhausting. I don't understand why someone can't show up to a company, give their best hit a place where they go. My time here is like I'm ready to grow somewhere else and be celebrated. And it just to be like we honor that season for what it was and the impact it had on the business.   - Adam Weber The business is about the business and the purpose of that business, not the individual who is running the business. So I celebrate that impact. And then and I think that that is a healthier way to process this, as opposed to making it taboo or sweeping it under the rug or acting like no one's leaving. People are leaving. People are leaving every company. You're not the only company where people are leaving. It's happening everywhere because people are looking for change. But if we normalize it and we celebrate people, it just feels like that is just like, a more appropriate way to handle honoring the time people gave instead of making every time someone leaves, it feel like a failure.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I like that. I think that's a good word. Adam, are there any other questions that you wish I would have asked you or insights that you have to offer?   - Adam Weber I just I was like looking at my notes that I had earlier, and one of the most powerful things I feel like I did as a leader was when I knew that we had, like, a deep issue of conflict. I guess one of the things with empathy to me is that this component that happens inside of organizations, which is this conflict, and it's a natural thing that comes up when people are working hard towards a goal and maybe don't proactively solve an issue. But at some point, like conflict manifests itself.   - Adam Weber And to me, one of the roles of someone who's, like an empathetic leader, is sitting in the midst of that conflict and being willing to truly listen and making sure that in that listening, that people feel heard and some of the most some of the work I looked back on over the last ten years of running a business I'm the most proud of was were the hardest conflicts where there were teams that were highly disengaged, and I Dove into the middle of it, and I sat with a full team and I said, what is going on?   - Adam Weber Let's just talk. This is a safe space and just listened 90 minutes, just sat there and listened and wrote it all down and then summarized it and share it back with them. And I was just like before anything else happens first, like, do you feel hurt? Do you feel like this is what is happening for your experience?   And then once they're heard one that diffuses things, but then to then to go back and try to bring healing and restoration in those relationships and put the things on the table that have been living in quiet, in festering.   - Adam Weber And there is to me that's a really practical thing. But to me, that is there's empathy in that because when conflict festers, it really at work. When conflict festers at work, it really impacts all aspects of a human being's life. And so to dive into that and to help create resolution in those situations, I think can really unlock workplaces. But it also creates better lives for all the parties that are involved in those scenarios.   – Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yeah, I agree to be able to wait into those deep waters and help diffuse it by radical attention. And just really hearing people is huge. Anything else? From your notes?   – Adam Weber I think we did it. I feel pretty good.   MUSICAL TRANSITION   If you are interested in reading Adam's book, Lead Like a Human, to get more great content, it is linked in the show notes.    Here are three key takeaways from my conversation with Adam…   Leaders, are you aware of and coping with your stress in a healthy way?  Adam talked about how some of his early missteps happened when he was under tremendous stress that he then pushed out onto his people.  Is this happening to you?  Maybe that is through a gratitude walk or writing your feelings down in cursive or taking some purposeful grounding time. Empathy is especially important in times of conflict…which is where it is most likely to go out the window!Adam found that just giving people the time to talk and express their feelings was really powerful, it made them feel heard and moved the conversation much closer to its eventual resolution So many employees get promoted to management positions without being trained or prepared for what it means to manage and care for people.They are internalizing stress from above and from their own expectations and that often derails their leadership efforts.  How are your training your managers?  Are you giving them the skills they need to really connect on a human level with the people they are leading:  with their hopes, apprehensions, and challenges?      OUTRO   You can find out more about “Lead Like a Human” here:  https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Like-Human-Practical-Building-ebook/dp/B08DG14GG6   You can find out more about HR Superstars here:  www.Community.15five.com

How does the son of a northern Indiana funeral home owner become a face of the state's emerging tech economy? Find out in this week's Business & Beyond podcast as Max Yoder talks tech, his passion for music and how getting cut from his middle school basketball team may have been a turning point in his life.

- Max Yoder That divine middle is emotional liberation, where I can be compassionate and show compassion to an individual. But I do not need to carry whatever it is that they are feeling, right, not my responsibility to. And the thing about the thing that I think this is so important for me in my life is I think this was my biggest blocker, my biggest blocker to grow like something that I may have gone through my whole life and never addressed if it were not for something like Lessonly.   INTRO   When companies and individuals think about skilling-up in empathy and compassion, there are common questions that arise.  How can I take on the feelings of others without being crushed by them?  What do good boundaries look like?  How am I ever going to keep my people accountable to their actual work if I start being all touchy-feely with the.    My guest today touches on all of these questions and more.  There are many reasons why you should take the time to listen to Max Yoder:  he is erudite, well-read (see all of the books and authors he noted in the show notes), and he really cares about people.    He is also the co-founder of the continually growing learning platform, Lessonly.  Just last week, Lessonly made headlines in the tech world when they were acquired by Seismic.  And the last few years has been a series of success stories for the company.    Max is much more than an executive and a thinker, he is also a crafter of Lego art.    - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Is there anything that you found yourself giving time to in the pandemic, whether that's like a new pursuit or a hobby that you have particularly enjoyed?   - Max Yoder Yeah. I've given myself a lot more time to make art, and I tend to make art with Legos. I really appreciate this man named Joseph Albers, who was a teacher at Black Mountain College, right. During World War two, post World War II. And he created this series of things called Homage to a Square. And he really like color theory. So he would put basically squares inside one another. And he did about two0 of these over a series of 20 years, I think from his 60s to his 80s, if I recall correctly, so hugely inspired by somebody doing 2001 thing from their 60 to their 80s.   - Max Yoder And these squares, like I said, they're color theory. So he was trying different colors, and he said when I put a blue in the middle and I surround it with a red, that blue takes on a different cue, then it visually looks different than if I surround it with a lighter blue. Like what we put around to color changes the way we perceived that color.   - Max Yoder So during COVID, I started doing all of these squares, and they were these really great free flow activity where I could get a 16 by 16 Lego square.   - Max Yoder And I would create my own version of Joseph Albers Homage to a Square, all these different colors, and I have them all around my attic now. And it was just one of those things that I could do without thinking I sift through the Legos, I'd find the right color. I'd build these squares. It was not taxing, but it was rewarding.   - Max Yoder And so I think in general, what I learned to do during COVID was play and not have a goal. And in one way of doing that with art and just really, truly understand what playing is, because I think I spent a lot of my adult life and I think a lot of my adolescent life achieving instead of playing, and I think you can do both at the same time.   - Max Yoder But I don't think I was doing both. I think mostly achieving I love that.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Well, especially with the relentless pace of work in general, but especially accelerated as a result of the pandemic to actually have spaces of purposeful rest, whether that's like actual physical rest of sleeping or encompassing it with the mental release of play is something that I hear again and again as I work with different individuals, even as being really life giving. Yeah. I love that   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes You also have welcomed, I think, a new little person into your home in the midst of the pandemic you find that that has having a child in the home has unleashed some different capacities in you as well?   - Max Yoder Oh, yeah. So my daughter Marnie, she's eleven months old yesterday and eleven months.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Happy eleven months, Marnie.   - Max Yoder Yeah, pretty special. Full name is Marina. When she was born, we didn't know she was gonna be a boy or a girl. She came out of my wife, and we had three names for girls, picked out three names for boys. Marina was the one that was clearly the winner. And then basically, as soon after that, we just started calling her money. So she came home and just changed our lives there's. Covid before Marnie and this COVID after Marnie and COVID after Marnie is excellent. You know, I think COVID before Marnie was really tough for a whole host of reasons, but when Marnie came, she brought this new life to our house, like literal new life.   - Max Yoder Right. And then just this vitality to just and I of seeing the world differently and being a dad and watching my wife be a mom. And now being a husband to a mother, like all these things are life changing. And I'm 33 years old this year, and I just sent myself shifting from this achievement mentality to more kind of focusing on now, what do I care about? Why do I care about it? And am I doing the things that I care about? And my family is something that I care about?   - Max Yoder Music is something that I care about reading or things that I care about. And the difference between that and achievement and Carl, you the psychiatrist, help me figure this all out is I'm not doing them to impress anybody or to get anybody's. Applause I'm doing them because I care about them. And if somebody doesn't care about them, that's okay by me. And somebody does care about them. That's okay by me. But I'm not doing it for anybody else. Right?   - Max Yoder And being with my daughter is just something that is really important to me because she just wants me to be there with her.   - Max Yoder She doesn't even need me to do anything. She just needs me to be watching her spending time with her. And it's just been really cool to over eleven months. Jess, who's a very calm woman, nurture Marni and love on Many. I think I call myself in a big way in front of Many. Many got her grandpa and her grandma, and then we have a woman named Gabs, who is a friend of ours and the caretaker of Mary three days a week. And all these people just are very calm personalities.   - Max Yoder And Marni has just been wrapped around with so much love and kind of calmness. And what I imagine is going to come from that is what has come from that, which she's very adventurous, like, she's not scared. She's vibrant, and I just feel really lucky because it's not that parents don't want to give that to their kids, right? I think it's just sometimes we just don't have the resources, don't have the time, we're overstressed, and we're in a fortunate position where that's not the case. And it is highly rewarding to see my daughter be that's exploring, creative, laughing kid.   - Max Yoder And I want that for everybody because it's a real gift. I.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Love that enjoyment of just her presence and watching her flourishing.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes And something that you said kind of, like, particularly caught my attention, that I'm not thinking primarily of what I'm doing for her. I'm just being with her. I'm paying attention and the power of presence, which is its own segue into some of what we want to talk about today, which is empathy and connection in the workplace, because although it's not like a paternal relationship with those that you work with, I think there's this deeply human need to be seen and acknowledge, and I'd like to kick it off.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I know you're a leader that values cultivating this in your workplace. What is a personal story for you about why empathy and human connection really matter specifically in the workplace?   - Max Yoder Yeah. I think empathy allows me to feel as somebody, so it allows me to kind of sit in their shoes and do my best approximation of what's stressing them or what's bringing them joy, like, empathizing with their situation. And I think that's incredibly important to a certain degree. I think the place where I get the most juice is being compassionate. And I think I've learned to recognize feeling sympathy for somebody, understanding that they are going through pain, but not carrying that pain as my owner running those same circuits myself.   - Max Yoder This is something that Robert Sapolsky to a gentleman from Stanford has helped me understand. If I sit there and run the circuits all day long that somebody else is running and I get stressed with them, I wear myself out, but I can be compassionate and sympathetic to an individual. Like, if they're hurting, I can acknowledge that they're hurting, but I don't need to run the same circuits.   - Max Yoder So I think it's really important to be empathetic because it gives me a chance to kind of sit in something and understand. Oh, yeah, that does not feel good. But I can't run that circuit too much because I'll wear myself out. But I can run the compassion circuit a lot longer where I can see if somebody's in pain, even if they're yelling at me or they're frustrated with something that, you know, life is tough there in a difficult situation that you might describe as suffering. I might describe a suffering.   - Max Yoder And to be a calm presence in the face of that is a gift in and of itself. I might not have to do anything more than that. Then just be calm in front of them, not diminish or dilute. What they're saying also enhance what they're saying. Just be there as a calm presence that listen. And who does that take me? Has that taken me a long time to learn?   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Can you give me an example? What has that looked like for you and your leadership over the last year and a half?   - Max Yoder Yeah. I think we can. I go back longer than that because I think the Lessonly journey is nine years long to date, July 12 today. And I noticed that as we hired more and more people, we hit 17 people, and then we hit 25 people and then hit 50 people, that there was always more feelings coming into the business. Right. A woman named Jill Bolte Taylor, a friend and somebody who I love says we are feeling creatures who think, not thinking, creatures who feel feeling, creatures who think.   - Max Yoder So we are a lot of feelings, right. We are very emotional. And for most of my life, I believe that was responsible for people's feelings. And I believed that I was responsible also for their judgments, which kind of two sides of the same coin. I just feeling responsible for two things that are not my responsibility. Right. Feelings and judgments of other folks. So I would try to carry those feelings as my own, and I would kind of assume those judgments as fact and they crushed me.   - Max Yoder So I'm going to focus on the feelings part today, as opposed to the judgments or for this moment, on the feelings part.   - Max Yoder There was a lot of feelings in the business, and every time we hired a new person, just more and more feelings, and we got to 50 people, and I couldn't take it anymore. I was probably a long pass being able to take it anymore. I was stressed, self medicating, trying to keep up with all the feelings. And it wasn't working because the frantic folks around me, if they were feeling frantic, I was becoming frantic myself, and that's just not what people need.   - Max Yoder So I was fortunate enough. One of my teammates, who her name was Casey Combo. At the time, she's since married, she gave me a book called Non Violent Communication, not because she knew I was struggling with this, but because she knew I was looking for different methods for clear communication that was not aggressive, that was not argumentative, but was clear and compassionate. And in this book, Marshall Rosenberg writes about emotional slavery, which was exactly what I was. I was an emotional slave. I believe other people's feelings my responsibility.   - Max Yoder And then he writes about emotional liberation. And he talks about these stages, the first stage, being emotional slavery of I assume your feelings as my own and my responsibility, and I carry them, and I get tired and you get tired. He says that a lot of times when people do that for so long, they might move into the next stage, which is basically disavowing other people's feelings. And right, about 50 people. That's really the only thing I knew how to do at that point. I was like, I can't carry all these feelings, so I'm just going to say no to all of them.   - Max Yoder We hired Megan Jarvis at that point or head of the yeah, wonderful. Right. And I was like, hey, Megan, I'm so glad you're here. I need you to take the ceilings, like, I just need to go high. But, like, that was so not fun for me, because being with people is why I like my job, you know? So hiding from the feelings, man, I wasn't going to like my job, so it was just not going to work. So depending on my energy levels, I'd either carry people's feelings or I would hide.   - Max Yoder And Marshall Rosenberg showed me that there's a third way. So those are two extremes right side of turning feelings all the way down to I don't care at all. So turning it down to 0% or turning it all the way up to a 100% care about everybody's feelings. And he makes it clear that there's this divine middle and that divine middle is emotional liberation, where I can be compassionate and show compassion to an individual. But I do not need to carry whatever it is that they are feeling, right, not my responsibility to.   - Max Yoder And the thing about the thing that I think this is so important for me in my life is I think this was my biggest blocker, my biggest blocker to grow like something that I may have gone through my whole life and never addressed if it were not for something like Lessonly. Lessonly is this thing that's bigger than me, and it needed me. It was either going to crush me if I didn't figure this out, or I need to figure this out to keep my job. I wasn't going to be able to do my job if I didn't figure this out.   - Max Yoder And so this bigger thing than me forced me to figure this out. And Marshall Rosenberg game is a blueprint of emotional liberation, and that's what I began to practice. And I don't know if I'm never going to be the same because of that.   - Max Yoder In a really, really healthy way. I don't feel responsible for other people's feelings anymore. I feel responsible for my feelings and kind of making sure that I take care of myself. I are responsible for my intent behind my behavior. I'm responsible for my behavior.   - Max Yoder I consider myself responsible for those things. Doesn't mean I consider you responsible for yours. I just telling you, I consider my response for those things. And so that's what I focus on.   - Max Yoder And the reason I bring that up is in the journey of lesson. Like, there's been nothing more important to me than this.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I'm struck in finding that third way that you needed to develop a skill set of perhaps encountering the emotion. And I don't know if discharging is the right word, but even, like, energetically being able to release your feelings of responsibility, what what did that look like?   - Max Yoder Thanks for asking that. I mean, very clumsy at first. Right. Like, understanding something intellectually does not mean that I can do it. Well, I have to practice it again and again and again, which is a whole other topic we should discuss of. Just like, intellectual understanding is not knowing. Knowing is doing. You cannot know something without having done it is otherwise it's intellectual understanding. So I had to practice a heck of a lot and remind myself that when somebody came to me and brought something, it was always coming through the lens of their own experiences.   - Max Yoder And it was never simply about the thing that had happened. They were also bringing to me whatever else was going on in our life, because we can't separate that. We can't separate, like if we're having an emotionally charged home life and something happens at work, and it is like the straw that breaks the camel's back. What I hear from that person is just the work thing, right? What I don't see is all the stuff underneath the water that is happening. That is not my business, but it's always there, right?   - Max Yoder And when I would make a decision network Edwin Friedman, who wrote this book called The Failure of Nerve, he really helped me with this. He helped me understand that I'm always in a relational triangle with each person. And this was a big breakthrough for me. This is like something that intellectually, really helped me break through in terms of my practice, which was when somebody comes to me, there's always a third thing in the room, and that is a prior issue that they might be bringing, or I might be bringing or another person that they might be bringing to the conversation where I might be bringing.   - Max Yoder So to make it clear, like, Liesel, you and I are engaging right now, and we need shortcuts to kind of understand how to behave with one another. So we might filter through other people that we know that remind us of one another. And so when I meet people like Liesel, which this is just a brain by a shortcut, these things you'll come to mind. And in your case, I get a lot of warmth from you. But let's say I reminded you of somebody who really rub you the wrong way in the past.   - Max Yoder You might engage with me through the lens of that person. It's not just about me and you directly. It's a third thing that everything goes through and that's happening all the time everywhere. We're not directly relating to one another, relating through our past experiences and the people that we've known in the past. That helped me a lot, because when somebody would come to me and be really fired up about something that I thought was disproportionate to what it just happened, it helped me understand why that might be.   - Max Yoder There might have been a past issue, that this was emotional wound that was being poked at. It was not my responsibility, right? But I can sit there and be attached into the person. And maybe they don't understand that here, bringing that to the table. But I can have a sense like, this is not just about me and this person and this thing that's happening, they're filtering through their life. Right? And so when I realized that through Edwin Freeman, I realized it almost gave me permission to not carry things, because people are always bringing more to me than was between me and them.   - Max Yoder And I'm always bringing more to people that is between me and them. So I don't want them to carry my stuff. And I don't want to carry theirs. Does that help, or does that make sense?   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yeah. That understanding. Did you find yourself needing? Some people engage in breathing exercises or they find themselves even to physically move as you are growing in this practice, there were things that you were like reading that were helping contextualize it. Were there other things that you like, embodied practices that were really helping.   - Max Yoder Oh, yeah. Getting sleep sober, sleep hugely helpful. Like, I can show up and be calm in a conversation in a much richer way if I do not drink booze before bed. And I don't mean, like, I mean any amount of booze. And this is a rule that I break a lot for myself, which is like even a glass of wine at 05:00 p.m. Or 06:00 p.m.. It affects my sleep. So if I really want to be the best version of me, I say no, and I sleep better.   - Max Yoder And it's just a fact of the matter. I am much less agitated. I am much calmer. So doing my pre work of getting exercise, eating well, sleeping well. And all those things are intertwined, what I eat and how I exercise to fix my sleep. So that matters to me a lot of just kind of taking care of myself and controlling the variables I can control. And then in that moment, if somebody's losing, they're cool in front of me or I'm losing my cool in front of them.   - Max Yoder And my therapist, Terry Daniel, says it can help basically coach me. It can help to put your hand on your stomach, like, on your skin. And it can be a safer thing to do when we're not physically in the room together. Like, let's say I'm having a different conversation over the phone, like, happening a lot over COVID. And just that skin to skin connection with myself can be very helpful. Breathing. Breathing deeply when I'm with somebody can be very helpful. Breathing and showing them slow my breath down can even be coming to them.   - Max Yoder So, yeah, there's physical things that I can do in that moment. And I hope it's very clear that I'm not suggesting that I nail this every time. Right. These are just tools that I have to do this a little bit better every day.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yeah. I think that's helpful. As you were beginning, you talked about this inflection point at 50 employees where you started giving more attention to the particular presence that you were bringing. What did you start to notice? Did you notice the difference in people's receptivity to you and the sorts of things they were saying back to you as you grew in this practice?   - Max Yoder Yeah. Here's one thing that comes to mind that I noticed is I noticed I didn't have to solve anybody's problems for them. And I used to think I had to, like, I used to think I had to come up with solutions. And more than anything, now, I can be with somebody ask them questions and ask them questions and do active listening. So, like, one of the things I learned through motivational interviewing is if somebody's telling me something instead of asking a question, saying something like, so maybe somebody comes to me and says they haven't responded to me three times.   - Max Yoder You're frustrated might be the way I summarize where I think that person is at based on what they just told me. And then they had to go, Well, not really frustrated, just a little bit irritated. Or they go, yeah, I'm totally frustrated, and they keep talking. And when I'm getting them to do with this verbally process, and I'm only doing that because when they verbally process this stuff, they come up with answers a lot better. Right. But if I'm talking the whole time, it's tough for them to find answers.   - Max Yoder So when I reflect what I'm hearing with a statement, it gives them a chance to keep talking so that they can kind of maybe all I have to do is just get it out. Right. Not keep it in, just say it to somebody. Some days that's all that happened, and two or three days go by and they call me and they say, I think I figured out what to do. Thanks for listening the other day, it just is it. And I'm somebody who wants to solve a problem.   - Max Yoder Right. But in fact, sometimes I'm doing somebody a major disservice by even if I got the answer right on the off chance I get the answer right. With the limited information I have sometimes saying, hey, maybe here's what you should do is a complete disservice to that individual, because me giving it to them might make them more likely to actually not pick it up and do it. But if I were to just a little calmer and let them give you that conclusion themselves, it's so much more powerful if they thought of it.   - Max Yoder Right. Like, you don't want to be told to do things. So sometimes even if it's the right call, we might do the opposite of what I've just been told because we got told to do it. But if somebody can figure it out themselves, that's the most powerful.   - Max Yoder That's the most powerful recipe, even if it's exactly the same thing I would have said. Right. And most of the time, of course, I don't have the answer. But I guess my point is sometimes even giving somebody the answer unless they're asking me for it.   - Max Yoder Right. Unless they're saying Max, I really want your feedback here, which is a whole different prompt. Right. But if they're not asking for it and give it a I can do a major disservice in that process.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yeah. I think that's such a good word, because I think especially as people get, we oftentimes promote people on their capacity to solve problems. It's a really valuable skill set to organizational growth and leadership. In my work, I call it the predisposition to be in a Fix-It, Frank.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes And what I heard and what you said is also a comfortability with a slightly extended time horizon. I think as I verbally process something that I see in the leaders that I work with, is there this imperative of like, well, we need to get it figured out now. We need to get it figured out in the moment. And I've got insights and I've got a history, and so I'll give it to you, and then you'll be happy. And how that short circuiting of the process, it can be a move of not believing that there's enough time to let somebody come to their own conclusion or not believing that they have the capacity of do so.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes So I've just got to give it to you in this moment.   - Max Yoder Right.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes And the cost that can be associated with doing that, I think he spoke really eloquently to.   - Max Yoder Well, thank you for hearing me out, because I think that's taking me a long time. Like, what I saw is the people who I would go to therapy with were very reluctant to give answers. So they were modeling for me, and I'd ask them why, and they teach me. And I don't consider myself a therapist. Right. But these people I do consider they are therapists. They're professinally, trained and in some cases, done it for 40 years. That's a long time. And there's a lot of mistakes being made in that process to their admittance, seeing them and seeing how helpful it was for me, but also knowing that there were times when I would go to that person to say I'd really like some advice.   - Max Yoder And I've opened the door at that point to hear them. And many times the advice they give me, I don't take it up with open arms. It's when that advice feels pushed, then that's when it doesn't work, right. When it feels pushed or forced. But when it's invited, that's a whole different motion.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Right. So the acknowledgment of seeing a therapist of some of the things that they have helped you with. You recently did something for your company where you interviewed your therapist to talk about boundaries. I'd like to hear about why that felt important for you to do. And what were some of the key learnings that you felt like were really important for your people,   - Max Yoder Yeah. So while I was important and what do people take away from it? I can only tell you what to away from because they haven't seen the interview yet. At the time of this conversation, we have not shown it to them yet. But I'll tell you what I hope to take away from it. But I'll start with, hey, here's why this is important. Many of my teammates asked me about boundaries just completely unprompted. They would come to me and say, hey, I'm going on a vacation. I know that you encourage us to turn all of our stuff off, to delete our email and our delete our slack from our phones, so we're not going to compulsively check them.   - Max Yoder But I don't know if I'm comfortable doing that. And for whatever reason, they were not willing to accept themselves doing that they were concerned. And that's a boundaries challenge for me. I speak openly about having engaged with people that I love who have substance use challenges. And I speak openly about having to learn about boundaries in that process where I begin and they end in where they end, and I begin. It's a very important part of understanding how to be healthy in the midst of something that is really, really challenging, which is substance use disorder, which you might co alcoholism or any number of things.   - Max Yoder Right. So I speak openly about these things. People come to me, and it's clear to me that this is not something that we get a lot of attention. And I would generally share. See, if somebody wanted something from me, I would generally share a talk by Gabor Monte called "When the body says no" was good.   - Max Yoder He's a master, and he speaks about boundaries. Basically, caregivers tend to struggle taking care of themselves, and they'll just give care and give care and give care, and they will not care for themselves. They'll be asymmetrical in the way they give care. The way that they care for somebody else is one way. And the way that her from themselves is completely opposite. Basically, like, they don't deserve any care, but everybody else deserves all the care. And he basically talks about how this just Withers people away. So all of these things combined, I know boundaries are important in my life, and my teammates come to me and say they matter.   - Max Yoder Gabor Mate gives this talk. And when I share with people, they tell me like, oh, my gosh, my brain just blew open in such an interesting way because he's so profound. So I'm thinking, hey, this is a chance for me, too. And so I asked my therapist about how does he view boundaries? And he gave this just excellent off the cuff answer. And I was like, Can I just interview you sometime about this? And so we can share this with my teammates, because exactly what you just said.   - Max Yoder So he comes in and we talk about boundaries. And I thought it was important because I just it's just not talked about in our world. Right? We think Kind is doing things for other people, kind of at any expense to ourselves. Right. Like, well, they asked for it. So I got to give it because I don't want to be a jerk.   - Max Yoder It's like that. It's not. We have to counterbalance kindness with boundaries, with assertiveness. And I just see people who do not have those tools to be assertive, and it's very stressful for them, and I ultimately think it's slowly killing them. So I think this is important. So here's what I hope people take from it. When they hear a assertiveness, I think they maybe hear aggressiveness. And Terry is very clear that you can be assertive without infringing on anybody else's energy or anybody else's motion. Like, it's not about aggression, right?   - Max Yoder Those are two different things. Assertiveness is the ability to say yes or no based on you wanting to or not wanting to. And he says it ultimately comes from a place of self acceptance. If I enter a space and I accept myself, then I can assert my needs. And asserting my needs does not mean dominating your needs, right? It just means if I'm tired, somebody comes to me and says, hey, can we do this thing today? I might say if I'd like to do it tomorrow, I just don't have the energy today.   - Max Yoder I like to do it tomorrow. And if that person is not willing to accept it, I say I understand, but I still have the energy. Can we do it tomorrow? And he's like, if you don't accept yourself, you won't even ask. You may not even ask the question of can we do it tomorrow? Because you may be coming from a place to say, I'm not good enough in order to feel good enough, I need to answer this request. But he's, like an accepting person, believes they're good enough.   - Max Yoder They don't believe that they're going to be good enough by doing the request on the demanded time. Right. They're just good enough. And so he really clarified in a big way how self acceptance is key here. And what keeps us from exerting boundaries is a fear. And each person's fear might be different. But understanding what that fear is, it might be that you feel like you're not good enough for X, Y, or Z reason might be something different, but getting down to that fear and understanding it and and working through that is the way that we get to a place where we're comfortable enough to say no, thank you and stand by it and not be worried that that person, we're going to lose that person by doing so.   - Max Yoder So there.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Well, and as I think of some of the responses and groups and surveys and the work that I do, I think there's an underlying fear for many people that if I assert this boundary, people aren't going to like me as much. They're going to think I'm lazy. And while you, as a leader, cannot, in a top down way, control people's responses to things like establishing boundaries or expressing vulnerability, that there is an element of culture creation that goes into this. How do we, as a group, you know, not always perfectly respond, but have more of a context where we, like, make the space for that.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes We make the space for it's okay to say no. We make the space for vulnerability. What are some of the ways that you have co created with some of the other leaders at Lessonly, a culture that says it's okay to do that? What are things that you have done that have moved the needle?   - Max Yoder Yeah. So if the executive team at Lessonly is unable to assert ourselves, like, if we are not assertive in a situation, if we say yes to every new thing that comes our way, we are not modeling what we need the rest of our teammates to do. So it's incredibly important that a certain boundaries in my life that the executive team set boundaries and their lives, that when it's too much, we say it's too much. That is the fundamentally most important thing we can do to make it okay for anybody else to do it.   - Max Yoder The opposite approach that does not work is the same as your boss saying, hey, I don't expect you to work on the weekends, but I'm gonna because, you know, I got a lot to do, but I don't expect you to, and that just doesn't work. You know what? People here, I better be working on the weekends, right? If your behavior is not aligned to your words, people are going to look at your behavior, right? Not your words. They're going to trust your behavior, not your words.   - Max Yoder So what I want to do is align my words to my behavior, which is to say weekends are sacred, just like winter is the season that allows for spring. And winter is a season where it looks like there's not a lot happening, but there is a lot happening. Sleep at a time when it look like there's not a lot happening, but there is a lot happening. We need weekends or it looks like there's not a lot happening, but there is a lot happening, right? This resting and recharging is incredibly important.   - Max Yoder And if I don't treat my weekends like I want to people to treat them. And then why would I believe they're going to do that? Right. I can't do anything more than that is just make the space to say like, I mean it when I say this, and I mean it because this is my behavior, and I need my executive teammates to mean it, too. And I need the managers to also mean it, too. And in some ways, that goes well in other ways. It doesn't.   - Max Yoder Right. But it's ultimately out of my hands to some degree. Right. If people are going to pick that up, if we have a chronically, chronic challenge of the teammate, it's my responsibility to have a difficult conversation with them and let them know how important their modeling is, no doubt. But ultimately they're going to make the call if they want to change their behavior or not. And it's out of my hands if I'm doing it myself.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I'm struck right now that it's a tight labor market for many people.  Lessonly is growing. You're wanting to bring more people on. Do you feel like you have seen a through line towards creating this kind of culture where rests and seasons and vulnerability is upheld and valued and the way you're able to attract and retain talent?   - Max Yoder I think we understand part of the recipe, but we exist in a system, though, that is chronically overworked and systems win. Like individuals, we've created a system a lesson that I'm really proud of. But we're also in this broader work environment, in this cultural environment of overwork. And unfortunately, those systems, if we don't kind of remove ourselves from them and do a lot of extra work, they win. The bigger system wins. The culture wins. If they didn't win, we wouldn't probably have 25% to 50% of the population reporting depressive States.   - Max Yoder Right.   - Max Yoder The culture is winning. We've optimized for economic growth, we've optimized for consumerism, we've optimized for commercialism. We haven't optimized for well being. And look what we're getting, right. We're not getting a lot of well being because the system is not in support of of that. So it's discouraging. It just is. And so we can only do so much less only to turn the tide. But it's our job to at least try. And one of the things that I find complete myself to be completely powerless to change is that there is no winter in software.   - Max Yoder There's no winter in the business world. There is no period of three months like there is for a pro athlete or for a farmer, where we work really hard and we plant and then we harvest. I'm not a farmer, so I'm not going to use all the right words, but we create a crop or mini crops. And then we have this period with winter where we take our time to rebuild. And pro athletes have their own seasoned in their off seasons. And this is wise. This is wise.   - Max Yoder I have not figured out how to recreate that in the business world. And I don't know if I ever will. It just is the system at work, right? Our customers, even if we take that time off, if we were to say less, only going to B nine months out of twelve, we're going to lose deals because there's a lot of deals because people need us for those three months, they were going to be off, right? Because they're going to be on. So, you know, it's not an excuse.   - Max Yoder It's just me saying, like, I don't know how to do it, right.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes The pressures of the prevailing system of capitalism that prioritizes growth and efficiency above all else.   - Max Yoder You said it well.   MUSICAL TRANSITION   We'll return in just a moment for the final portion of my engaging interview with Max.  But I want to take a moment to thank our sponsor, Handle with Care Consulting.  In the midst of the unrelenting stressors the last year and a half, are you giving your people what they need to stay engaged?  Empathy is key to building the sort of culture of connection that Max is talking about at Lessonly.  And the good news is, it is a skill that can be learned!  If you want help in skill-ing your people up in empathy and creating a place where people want to come to work, Handle with Care Consulting can help.  With interactive keynotes, empathy at work certificate programs, and coaching options, we can help you show care when it matters most.   MUSICAL TRANSITON   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I would love to hear about times when building connection at your workplace have felt easy for you and why you think they felt easy. And then I'm going to have to underside. What are times when building connections felt really hard for you and why you think to start with when it felt easy?   - Max Yoder Yeah. When it's all easy to build connections, when I am accepting on myself to go back to Terry Daniels lesson. I mean, it has everything to do with my my internal system being an equilibrium, you know, which is a delicate thing, right? One night of sleep and throw it off. But when I am in this place of peace with myself, I'm able to bring peace to my connections and not view myself as needing to be anything other than what I am. But when I'm not at peace with myself, I can go to a state of judgment and criticism.   - Max Yoder And if I drop a ball or miss a mark and these are judgments that I would make of myself, you mess that up, you drop this ball, you miss that Mark. Those are all judgments in their evaluator language. It can be very harsh with myself and showing up to a situation. Putting intense pressure myself does not increase my connection to the person in front of me or the room in front of me. But when I show up and just say, like, you know, I accept myself, and acceptance does not equal agreement.   - Max Yoder Like, acceptance does not mean I've got it all figured out. Therefore, I'm good. Acceptance just means I'm willing to look at my own behavior and accept it. Whether it's behavior that I can objectively say is life giving or soul sucking, I have to be able to look at it to accept myself. And once I can look at it, I might be able to make changes. But if I can't look at something, it's tough to change it. Right. So acceptance is not about saying I like everything that's going on in my life, just about saying I'm willing to look at everthing that going in my life with in an even handed way.   - Max Yoder And when I accept myself, I can show up to a room with my new teammates or my old teammates or a mixture of the two and be peaceful in front of them and talk about mistakes without feeling ashamed and talk about things that I'm proud of without feeling ashamed and and share my humanity. And if I can do that, it maybe gives another person's permission to do the same. So I think it has everything to do with my personal system, being in a good spot here and then acknowledging that my personal system is often not in a good spot to folks so that they understand, like, hey, they're not dealing with somebody who's got this figured out, right?   - Max Yoder Like day in and day out. I might have a different equilibrium, or I might have a different disequilibrium, right? It's not about coming at this from a place like I've got this oneness every day. I certainly do not do. Not at all. Right. But when I'm at peace, I can connect better. And I find that to be a really fun time in that journey towards self acceptance.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Something consistent theme that I hear from leaders is just the particular burden of other people's expectations about what it looks like to lead or manage change in a given season; as you are seeking that equilibrium and self acceptance, what about when you smack up against somebody else's? Like, judgment? I needed you to be different. I wanted you. You're not doing it the way that I would like for you to. How do you encounter those voices, real or perceived and still work to maintain well in the balance?   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Because sometimes we do need to change. Sometimes it's like, oh, that was a blind spot. I need to change. And sometimes we need to be able to have the discernment to say, like, hey, that's your stuff, not mine. How do you navigate that process?   - Max Yoder You nailed it, right? How much does this person love me? Is my first question. How well does this person know me? If it's my wife, I know she deeply loves me. And when she brings me something where she says, hey, what I got and what I needed were far apart, I'm listening. I'm not sitting there saying, hey, your expectations of me don't matter, right? I'm listening. It might not be that I agree with everything she says, right? But I'm definitely not shutting it all out either, right?   - Max Yoder She is just like me going to come at this from an emotional triangle of past wounds, but doesn't mean that there's not real meat on the boat when she's frustrated. Right now, if somebody needs something from me and I don't know them very well, and I'm skeptical that they love me or know me really at all, it's not that challenging anymore for me to just kind of let that. There's a moment at first that I go back to my old self of getting defensive or being hurt.   - Max Yoder And it's more than a moment sometimes, right? It could be an hour. It could be 2 hours. It could be 3 hours. It could be a good night sleep that needs me through it. But then I'm like, yeah, that's okay. Life is too short. So it depends on my relationship to this individual. And Brene Brown has the idea of the Square Squad, where, you know, the coal world can't be my critic, and I can't have nobody has my critic either, right? I need the people who love me, care about me.   - Max Yoder And if the Square Squad is the one inch by one inch piece of paper where I can put the names of the people who I know love me, who will tell me the truth as they see the truth, right? They're version of the truth, and I know that they're not going to willingly hurt me for fun. And those are the folks who feedback. I am a lot more. I'm a lot more discerning with. Right? But if somebody's coming out with this condemnation or an unspoken expectation and they say you didn't meet my unspoken expectation, like, that is not my problem because it's an unbroken expectation.   - Max Yoder There was no agreement there. I've got a chapter and Do Better Work, which is a book I got to write a couple of years ago that uses Steve Chandler wisdom of expectations versus agreement. Like, if we did not agree to that thing, then we have to get that agreement now and then begin to hold another accountable going forward. But if we didn't have an agreement and you're mad about not spoken expectation, like, I need you to look in the mirror and say, like, hey, we get an agreement because I don't remember the agreement now, and I can't read your mind, and we don't need to go back and litigate the path that you're frustrated about when we didn't have this agreement.   - Max Yoder Just an unspoken expectation. But we can make an agreement now. And an agreement is not you dictating at me or me dictating you. It's us going back and forth and negotiating a course of action that we say, okay, this feels good collectively. You know, that is a relationship. When we do that, the other thing is just, you know, I can't live in a world where I just have to respond to everybody's unspoken expectations.   MUSICAL TRANSITION   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Something that I like and have appreciated. I think I've been getting your emails for, like, the last two years just because I enjoy reading them.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes But you compiled them into a book that you just referenced. Do Better Work. You have a new book coming out. Tell us about that.   - Max Yoder Yeah. So I took those notes and compiled it. So the first book do better work. I'd been writing notes, took some of those, turn them into chapters. This one is called To See It, be It. And I'll say that a little slower to see it. Be it. The idea is, if you want to see it, be it. And that's the best you can do. Right. I want to see more patience in this moment. Bring patience. If you want to see more creativity in the world, bring creativity.   - Max Yoder And then let go of all the other stuff of what you want other people to be doing, because I think it's just very, very common and very easy to get wrapped around the axle of what other people are not doing. And I honestly think some people will die spending most of their time complaining about what somebody else is or is not doing instead of going, do I do what I value? Right? Do I live by what I value? And, of course, the answer is going to be no, because nobody does that perfectly.   - Max Yoder And then the next question, if the answer is no, what it always is, how can I begin to spend more time doing what I value? And let go of worrying about what anybody else is doing?  And, of course, there's a relationships with husbands and wives and kids were that's incredibly difficult, right. And there might have to be boundary set where I feel like I'm living my values over here and there's somebody else in my space consistently that I just don't feel like I can do my best self around.   - Max Yoder That might require boundaries of separation. I just don't be together anymore. But what I'm getting at is, I think one of the greatest things we can do for ourselves to say what I want to see in the world, and how do I, at the time align to what I want to see in the world? And I think what happens when we do that is we either find that the things we want to see in the world has validity to them. We start to live them, and we start to see that they're very life giving.   - Max Yoder Like, let's just use an example of getting good sleep. I want to see people well rested in the world. Well, I can't control how you sleep. I can control how I sleep. So if I take care of my rest, I want to see it, and I'm being it, right. And I can let go of all the other things. But at least I'm doing the thing that I want to see more people doing, and I'm letting go of whether they're doing it or.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yeah, not.   - Max Yoder And as I do that, I might say, hey, this feels pretty good. Like I had a hunch that sleep taking care of sleep was going to be helpful. And look how beautiful life is now that I've been able to take care of my sleep, which I understand is not an option for everybody. But I'm saying it's an option for me. So sometimes living my values strengthens those values. Other times, living things that I believe I value, like I intellectually value it, and then I start trying to live it.   - Max Yoder I found out, oh, I don't really value that as much as I thought I would putting into practice. I see that there is that there are problems and there are always problems with any value is taken to an extreme. Like loyalty. I value loyalty. Taken to the extreme, it becomes blind loyalty. If I turn it all the way up to 100% loyalty, I become blindly loyal. If I turn all the way down to 0% loyalty, I don't have any loyalty at all. Right. I need to have that loyalty dialed into something somewhere in the middle counterbalanced with once again assertiveness and boundaries.   - Max Yoder I'm loyal to somebody, but not at the expense of my own mental health and well being. It those two things counterbalance one another. So only by living that value do I learn those hard lessons, in my opinion. Right. I can't learn them intellectually. I have to live them and say, oh, wow, I do value this, but I value a different permutation of it than I thought. That makes sense.   - Max Yoder So that's what the book that's the first chapter of the book is, or the first note in the book. And then there's 24 notes after that of other things that I just think are important, and I share them because they help me and they help somebody else. Great. I just know for a fact that all 25 of them help me. And my hope is that maybe one day somebody picks them up and they want to read the book. Right. They're choosing to read the book. And one of the notes, as as it helps me in the past, helps them in a similar way or a different way altogether.   - Max Yoder That is healing as the whole point of the book.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Right. Well, and your writing is accessible. It's oftentimes encompassing story. It's nice digestible bits of wisdom that you could blaze through all at once, so you could flip through and take a little at a time. So I'm excited about this new offering.   - Max Yoder Thank you for being open to it. It's a great joy for me to write. I got to dedicate it to my daughter, and I dedicated to her because I just want I could get hit by a bus one day. Liesel. My dad owns a funeral home, and my dad's dad started a funeral home. My dad and his brother ran the funeral home for last 30 years, 20, 30 years. And people just get they just leave, right? They don't choose to go a lot of the time. It's not old age that takes us all.   - Max Yoder So I'm very highly aware that, like, is not my choice when I get to go and so writing for me is a chance to capture a bit of my spirit. And if I have to go for whatever reason, my daughter can pick up this book and do better work and and catch a little bit of her dad and deeply special to me to be able to capture a little bit of my spirit. And it really forced the genuineness out of it.   - Max Yoder Right. Because I don't want it.   - Max Yoder I don't want my I got to be genuine under that premise. Right. Like, I got to say what I believe, what I mean and what I stand by, because I don't want my daughter reading about somebody who didn't exist.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Right. Or reflecting in an individual that is not integrated with their best thoughts. Like, we're always seeking that integration, but you don't want a glaring gap between what you say and how you live, right.   - Max Yoder And I want her to see that I hurt. I make mistakes. Right. She's not going to get a picture of a perfect human being because I've never been one of those and they don't exist. She's going to get a picture of somebody who struggled, and that's what I want her to have, because that's the model I want to be. Hey, life is a lot of struggle, and there's a lot of beauty in that, you know, a lot of beauty in that. I've been very fortunate in that struggle, right.   - Max Yoder I always had a roof over my head. I always had food to eat. I don't pretend my struggles like anybody elses, but I can tell you struggle nonetheless. And I don't want her to think that life should just fall into place and be peachy. And that's what life is.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes So as we draw near the end of our time for listeners who say I want to build more connection in my workplace, I want to be part of that change.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I know it's a broad question, but what words of insight would you offer to them as they think about how to go about doing that?   - Max Yoder So I want people to ask themselves, what do I value? And how do I, 1% of the time seek to live that value and become symmetrical and congruent with what I value in my behavior? And then how do I learn in that process? Because that's the best I can do. And if I'm in a system like, let's say I'm in a work system where it does not align to my values, I have to ask myself, Am I willing to change into those systems value because the work system will change every person in it if they stay long enough, right?   - Max Yoder It could even change them quickly. But if I'm in a system that is not congruent with my values, I'm going to be nervous because it's possible that that system actually has values that are very life giving. It stay long enough, I'll find out. But if I find out they're not life giving, I stick around. There is a casualty there. There is a loss there. So my ask to people is if you want to see it, be it and then pay attention to what the system cares about.   - Max Yoder And if the system is so disproportionately, caring about things that are not what you care about is very important. If possible, you get out.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes That's a good word, Max. Are there any questions that you wish I would have asked you that I didn't ask you?   - Max Yoder Let's see. I mean, I've talked about values a lot, so real quickly, I think something that I love talking about is this idea of reciprocity. Liesel, yeah.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Tell me more.   - Max Yoder Yeah. So reciprocity is idea of I give what I get. And so let's say I get kindness from somebody, so I give it back. But a lot of times reciprocity comes through in a relationship where people are not communicating very clearly, when maybe somebody is struggling and they take their aggression out at somebody else, reciprocity is oftentimes somebody yelled at me. So I yell at them. Somebody didn't respond to my message, so I don't respond to their message. So it becomes I give what I get. And reciprocal cultures, if we're having behaviors that are life giving really beautiful, right?   - Max Yoder Because somebody gives me patience. Ideally, I respond to them with patience, right? Somebody gives me support. Ideally, I respond to them with support. Reciprocity is not necessarily something that is good or bad. It just is. And it resides about giving what we get. So what's the alternative to that? Well, it's living by values, which is, I think, supremely important to understand. If somebody comes to me, maybe somebody doesn't respond to my message that I sent them. And then later, they need something for me. So now they're asking me for my time.   - Max Yoder If I'm reciprocal, I say, Well, they didn't respond to me when I needed them, so I'm not going to respond to them. But if I value driven, I say I value communication, right? I value support, and I would have value that person responding to me when I needed their help. So regardless of the fact that I didn't get it from them, I'm going to give it to them, not out of fight, not to show them the way. Right. Because I value it. It's really important that we get those two things.   - Max Yoder It's not out of fight, right? It's not to prove anything to this person. It's because I value it. So if you're not having difficult conversations with me, it's not an excuse for me because I'm not living in reciprocal life. I believe in difficult conversations. I believe in having them. I'm going to have them with you. And that's the best I can do. You may not respond in the way that I hope that's out of my hands, right. I just value difficult conversations. I value patients. I value forgiveness whether I get them or not.   - Max Yoder So I think reciprocating can be a race to the bottom. It can be this kind of slippery slope of just degrading cultures, degrading relationships, and values based living. If I do it because I value it, not because I get it in return is the answer, in my opinion.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I love it. I agree.   MUSICAL TRANSITION   Here are three key takeaways from my conversation with Max and I have to confess, there were definitely more than three valuable takeaways, but I have narrowed it down to these three…   Where are you in the spectrum of people pleasing?  Max talked about emotional slavery (feeling responsible for the emotions of others), and emotional disavowal (rejecting the emotions of others), and the third path of emotional liberation:  being able to adknowledge the meotions of others without being ruled by them.  Where are you find yourself most often ending up? Remember, there is always a third person or situation in each interaction:a relational triangle. People bring their previous experiences, their wounding, their successes, and their home life to a given situation.  It is important to acknowledge this reality because it helps us to contextualize situations.  Max encouraged listeners to ask the question, “What are my values?” and then to take a good look at the organization that they are a part of.If you organization is acting, consistently, against your values, there is a cost.  And maybe it is time to leave.    MUSICAL TRANSITION   OUTRO   Max Yoder:  Do Better Work Robert Sapolsky:  Behave:  The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst Robert Zapolsky:  Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers Gabor Mate:  When the Body Says No Marshall Rosenberg:  Non-Violent Communication 

Today we have an incredibly special guest on board to discuss a crucial topic: Max Yoder on Managing Culture, Mental Health and Growth.Max is CEO and co-founder of Lessonly, the powerfully simple training software that helps millions of people learn, practice and Do Better Work.  Outside of his work at Lessonly, Max is a father, husband, musician, and the author of "Do Better Work." Things we discuss today: How has COVID redefined company culture?  What does it mean to promote vulnerability in the workplace, and how does this shape organizational growth?  How can we teach communication skills and other behaviors that naturally promote mental health and help to resolve conflict?

In this episode, your host, Chris Wilmerding speaks with Lessonly's Max Yoder about training and coaching software, choosing intellectual challenges, meeting and exceeding your milestones, and more. Check out Lessonly at https://www.lessonly.com/.

How do we build a culture of better work? Jeff Echols and Katharine White MacPhail welcome Max Yoder, Co-Founder and CEO of Lessonly, and author of "Do Better Work." • What roles do communication, understanding, and accountability play in creating a culture of good work? • Why is perfectionism a threat? • How should we respond to volatility? Share your experience and advice, and ask your questions.

Does product lead marketing or does marketing lead product? This is the question we set out to answer on this episode with Kyle Lacy, VP of Marketing at Lessonly. Outside of exploring this question, you’ll learn how Kyle launched the brand’s first user conference that didn’t feel like a user conference, and how they doubled down on their brand messaging while making sure the company never lost the voice of its founder - Max Yoder. In this episode, you’ll learn why Lessonly’s do-better work position is consistent through their product brand, messaging and product experience. You’ll also hear how this business-to-business product company refocused its brand message with an emphasis on connecting with its audience on a human level. Learn more about Lessonly Learn more about Kyle Connect with Kyle Connect with Christian Connect with Anna Learn more about Innovatemap To register for the speaker series visit betterproduct.community/speaker-series

Max Yoder is CEO and co-founder of Lessonly, the training software company that helps teams learn, practice, and do better work. He is also the author of Do Better Work, a book about being a better teammate.

Lessonly is powerfully simple software that helps teams learn. Co-Founder and CEO Max Yoder chats with Zendesk’s Tiffany Apczynski  on all things empathy. They explore how education can be used to build the new generation of leaders that the world needs. Tune in to hear the pair talk: Tying ROI and behavioral change to software  How to boost confidence and competence with communication Living whatever you’re asking your team to do Letting go of perfectionism and tapping into play

This week's featured guest is Max Yoder, Co-Founder and CEO of Lessonly. Lessonly is an online training software that helps teams learn, practice, and Do Work Better. Max provides us his insights into his unique perspective on building good culture, values, and work ethics with employees in the workplace. If you are wanting to learn how to grow a strong culture, core values, and hard work ethics then this is the episode you need to tune into. Learn more from Max by checking out the EDGE of the Web episode 364. Key topics discussed during the show: Lessonly and online training Team culture in a remote workplace Building a company with principles first Implementing core values in a workplace

How Unstoppable is Google?  The big tech companies have been in the hot-seat of Congressional hearings because they’re seen by some as monopolistic. Here’s how Google’s CEO responded in testimony. Is Google Analytics Used Ranking Search Results? Some have speculated that Google is actually using Google Analytics as part of its search results ranking process. John Mueller of Google weighs in to shed some light on the theory. How is Video-Watching Behavior Changing? Snapchat’s Study If businesses want to keep up with evolving video consumption behaviors in the younger set, Snapchat’s new study is one place to start developing an understanding of shifting trends.

As marketing professionals we know that customer experience is key to a successful brand. Understanding the customer needs and finding a unique approach to engaging them with your company helps build that relationship. A Marketing Leader, Author of multiple books including Twitter Marketing for Dummies and Branding Yourself, Marketing and Digital Trends Speaker, recognized as a Forty-under-40, CMO at Lessonly, Kyle Lacy, delves into ways to understand your customer's experience and implement company culture into first touch points.   Takeaways: Understanding what makes your customers tick, what makes your brand effective in the current market, and how to work your culture as a company into marketing and sales messaging is the future of outbound sales. The consumer's experience is paramount to everything else. There is an art to getting someone's attention. Taking the time to make a more personal outreach email provides the customer with a more human first touch point.  Spend time on enablement and training of representatives to truly understand the audience you are reaching. Infuse your company culture into the first touch. Whether it is useful or simply something fun, this is a great opportunity to be authentic and memorable! As marketing evolves into being more experience oriented, keep in mind the importance of balancing the corporate side of marketing with the entertainment side. Remember to listen to your audience and be mindful of the situation. Simplification is key. Too much software can ruin the experience for the prospect because there is too much going on. There can be complex systems as long as it feels easy for the end user. If a BDR is put under marketing then that leader needs to have experience in owning a revenue number.  Career Advice - Spend time developing your emotional intelligence, especially empathy. When faced in a conflict take a step back and think about the other person. How are they perceiving the situation?   Links: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kylelacy Twitter: https://twitter.com/kyleplacy KyleLacy.com: http://kylelacy.com/ Lessonly.com: https://www.lessonly.com/ Social CRM for Dummies: https://www.amazon.com/Social-Dummies-Business-Personal-Finance/dp/1118242491/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360336652&sr=8-1&keywords=Social+CRM+for+Dummies Branding Yourself: https://www.amazon.com/Branding-Yourself-Social-Reinvent-Biz-Tech/dp/0789749726/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1360336929&sr=1-1&keywords=Branding+Yourself Twitter Marketing for Dummies: https://www.amazon.com/Twitter-Marketing-Dummies-Kyle-Lacy/dp/0470930578/ref=dp_ob_title_bk   Busted myths:  Only sales leaders can transition to be a CRO - Even though sales leaders have the tendency to transition to lead marketing, CMOs and marketing leaders have just as much capability to transition into sales. A great CRO has to have great direct reports, brand creativity, and a passion for meeting the needs of the customer. These skills can be more impactful when coming from someone with a marketing background.   Shout Outs: 13:38 Kyle Coleman from Clari/Brand and Demand 25:11 Ollie Llama/Lagos, Nigeria 26:58 Chris Savage from Wistia/Market like a media company 27:13 Dave Gerhardt, Privy 27:41 Casey Neistat - YouTuber/Commercials 37:44 Max Yoder - author of Do Better Work 46:11 Lorraine Ball/Kyle's mentor and former boss 1:03:09 Nate Skinner from Oracle   Ways to Tune In:  iTunes - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hard-corps-marketing-show/id1338838763  Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/1vVLpNI1LssMTiL6Kdsamn  Stitcher - https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-hard-corps-marketing-show  Google Play - https://play.google.com/music/m/Im7mytmu2wa2mekhoeixlja5hpe?t=The_Hard_Corps_ Marketing_Show  YouTube - Full video - https://youtu.be/MrNlrx8meDw

We’re all changing all the time. The events and cultures we’re immersed in have an impact on our development. This, in turn, impacts our organizations. Sometimes these changes reveal a new personal and professional mission that we never could have imagined. Max Yoder is the CEO and co-founder of Lessonly, the training software company that helps people learn, practice, and do better work. He is grateful that he was cut from the basketball team two years in a row. He’s also the author of Do Better Work, a book about being a better teammate.  Max works to enable people to improve their time at work. That workplace success naturally affects people’s lives in all aspects. Max found that hearing people and empowering them to be their best selves at work leads to better fulfillment all around. He built his company on this premise. Emotions are key to high-performance. Traditionally, workplaces have rebelled against this idea. The workplace is now in a place of transition. Integrating emotional safety in work and allowing feelings in the company pays dividends. We discuss how to listen to each other in a healthy way to improve work culture for all. One thing we’ve come to understand is how important it is for leaders to take care of themselves. A company’s culture is such a reflection of its leader’s state of mind. That’s why failing to nurture one’s own well-being is disastrous. You can’t take care of others without first taking care of yourself. This is more true than ever during today’s crisis.  How can you make your company a safe place for emotional expression? Let’s talk about it in the comments on the episode page!   In this episode Escaping the myth of emotional slavery What happens when you allow emotions and feelings to play a role in your company The most important thing for a leader to do in a time of crisis Why charity and grace are the most important virtues to cultivate How to live according to the same expectations that you have for others Recognizing where we’re fragile and how to get stronger from adversity through support   Quotes “When people do better work, they live better lives.” [2:19] “If I use the tools in my wellbeing toolbox, I’m doing everybody a service. If I don’t, I am not doing everybody a service. What can I control? Am I controlling it? That has always been important. It is incredibly important now.” [10:20] “I think this is where all of our problems come from; we have special logic for our own behavior and we have different logic for other people’s behavior.” [20:29]   Links Lessonly Do Better Work by Max Yoder Antifragile by Nassim Nicholas Taleb   Find 15Five online Follow 15Five on Facebook | Twitter | Linkedin Best-Self Review & Competency Assessment Remote Work Resources Join the Best-Self Academy for free 

Do Better Work is more than a book title. It’s Max Yoder’s mission in leading Lessonly, a growing training software company based in Indianapolis. Outside of work, Max is an accomplished author, musician, and soon-to-be first-time dad.  Max is fascinated by human psychology and understanding relationships. He brings a unique approach to leadership, discussing nonviolent communication, compassion, and mirroring within the workplace. While taking home these practices of self-reflection and observation.  Hear how his focus on self-improvement is connected to the many passions he pursues alongside growing a thriving business.  Connect with Max: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maxyoder/ Get the book, “Do Better Work”: http://dobetterwork.com  Connect with Nick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/smarrelli/ Learn more about GadellNet Consulting Services: https://gadellnet.com/

Leaders bring great impact to the workplace when its employees or staff generate positivity with what they bring to work every day. Today, Jesse Cole interviews Max Yoder, the Founder and CEO of Lessonly and the author of Do Better Work. His book highlight what's working, handling difficult conversation and agreements, and how we can bring brightness to the room. Max talks about leading his company and creating moments that matter for his employees. Join Jesse and Max as they share insights on setting ideal company standards and creating self-awareness.   Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share! Here’s How » Join the Business Done Differently community today: findyouryellowtux.com Business Done Differently Facebook Business Done Differently Twitter Business Done Differently YouTube Do You Stand Out? Take The Yellow Tux Quiz

The top two elements to create a better culture? Clarity and camaraderie. Max Yoder does some deep introspection to show us how to build both. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

We all have unspoken expectations of our co-workers, significant others, family, and friends. Unfortunately, none of us are mind readers so these expectations often lead to disappointment when people fail to behave exactly as we expect them to. Max Yoder joins us on People at Work to explain how getting agreements, even 1% at a time, contributes to a culture of accountability and responsibility. And, ultimately, a more loving and supportive culture. Re-upload correction: A previous version of this episode had an audio break of several minutes. Our apologies! About our guest: Max Yoder is the CEO and co-founder of Lessonly, the powerfully simple training software that helps millions of people learn, practice, and Do Better Work. He lives in Indianapolis with his wife, Jess. For more on Lessonly visit lessonly.com. Connect with Max on LinkedIn at linkedin.com/in/maxyoder/ or on Twitter @maxyoder. Check out his book, Do Better Work, at dobetterwork.com.

In this episode Max shares the secrets of successful learning and giving feedback and you will understand so much more about Lessonly as a business and how he managed to get to grow to over 2 million users! In this interview we learn more about successful learning and giving feedback Max Yoder CEO and co-founder of Lessonly – “The powerfully simple training software that helps teams learn, practice and Do Better Work.” And don't forget to buy Max's new book. Do Better Work :- here :-  Checkout our Previous Interview :- Compassionate Communication Delivers 2 Million Users with Max Yoder – Episode 24 WARNING — AI Transcriptions Below May Cause Grammatically Correct People Serious Stress and Lack of Sleep! Nathaniel Schooler 0:10 Today, I'm interviewing Max Yoder. And he is the CEO and co founder of Lessonly, the powerfully simple training software that helps teams learn, practice and do better work. And he's actually grown that to 2 million users. So he shares some great insights here! Well it's great to speak with you again, Max! Max Yoder 0:47 Nat good to be back. Thank you for having me. Nathaniel Schooler 0:50 My pleasure. My pleasure. You shared so much value last time, that I just thought it'd be rude not to really to be honest. Max Yoder 0:56 But was, it was nice to hang out. We need to hang out twice. And we can hang out three times. So we're on a good trend now. Nathaniel Schooler 1:01 Exactly. I'd like to hang out more it would be cool, man. It would be very cool. Max Yoder 1:05 We are doing a pretty good job, aren't we? Nathaniel Schooler 1:06 Yeah. So today, we're going to talk about learning and development initially. And I know because you run you run Lessonly, you know hell of a lot about this! A lot more than I do. So I'm going to let you kind of take the floor, really? And tell me tell me what you know, Max? Max Yoder 1:25 Yeah, so over seven years of building Lessonly, we've learned a lot about training because we make training software. So we help people ensure that their training programs are rich and successful and driving return on investment. Over time, we learned that everybody had the same question. And that question was, what am I missing? So people were running training programs, but they didn't know if they were hitting all the beats. So what we did was we took it upon ourselves to make sure that we spelled out what all the beats were. When I say beats what I really mean are like the steps in a successful trading program. If you're doing these steps, you're probably doing it well. And then then filling in kind of details with each one of those steps. We call it the better work training method, because lesson is all about helping people do better work. So this is our training method for better work. And it's a six step method, it starts out with assessing your team and what it needs. So a lot of times in the assessment process, when you kind of figuring out what do we need to train on, you talk to managers a lot. And then you roll out a training program, we highly encourage you to both speak to managers, and also contributors, because contributors know what they need. So sitting down with contributors, doing some quick interviews and saying things like:- "What are you missing? What keeps you up at night? What question do you not want to be asked? Then if we could enable you on that answer, you feel a lot more comfortable, get that feedback, find the place where there's some overlap, you might find out that cross selling rates and your business needs to go up. So we're able to sell a product we were not able to cross sell. And you might find out that that's something that is affecting both employees and the management team. The management team doesn't hit that number, nobody gets nobody feels successful. If the individual contributor hit that number, they don't feel successful, they also don't make as much money.

Episode 40: Max Yoder, CEO, Lessonly  Max Yoder (@maxyoder), is the CEO and Co-Founder of Lessonly, a team training software company. He’s also the author of Do Better Work, a foundational book for leaders that focuses on the whole human approach.  Do you ever find yourself getting buried in the ‘How can I make things better?’ mentality? What if instead, you started focusing on what’s going well and doing more of that? In this episode, you’ll hear Max’s thoughts on why it’s important to bring less fear, shame, and guilt into the workplace - and start bringing in more compassion. Listen in as Max shares how you can break down your walls and show your vulnerability, starting with the people you love and trust first.

This episode is a rebroadcast of episode 34. In this interview, I talk with Max Yoder of Lessonly, a training software for 2 specific teams: sales teams and customer service teams. They focus on customer-facing teams, which are faced with the constant challenge of maintaining a high bar of quality, while the processes and tools around them are constantly in flux. This means that for these teams, training and re-training is needed month over month.Topics in the episodeExamples of the user experienceSelling to these specific teams, as opposed to HRWhere Lessonly is now, compared to how it was originally envisionedThe “Better Work Method” and how it is reflected in their teamRemoving features from LessonlyEvaluating partnerships with other companiesHow to evangelize with customersThe value of sharing before it’s readyContact informationLessonly.comTwitter: https://twitter.com/lessonlyInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/lesson.ly/Email: max@lessonly.com

Truth You Can Act On: We're all human. We have to model the behaviors we want to see, but we also have to realize that we aren't going to be perfect models. We are going to fall down; we are going to make mistakes. Share before you're ready. Iterate early and often. Instead of doing something and perfecting it in a vacuum, draft up a bulleted outline or a rough idea of where you want to go with a project, and then share it with the people who will ultimately benefit from these ideas in the end. Get agreements. It's difficult to communicate clearly sometimes. Either we don't want to put in the effort or we assume the other person knows what we need. If you get an agreement, you're not leaving things up for assumption. So, if you want somebody to do something, make it clear what you want. Ask them if they can agree to that and if they say 'yes,’ now you have a common ground to stand on. What fires you up on Mondays? For Max, his purpose in life is to inspire and motivate people in a loving way. Check out your schedule and see what opportunities you have throughout your day, week, and month to get your people excited. Full Shownotes: https://gutplusscience.com/max-yoder/ Book Recommendation: The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt Sponsors: Emplify – Are you still using pulse surveys? How about annual questionnaires? If your organization relies on either of these, it’s time to discover Emplify. Emplify has created a new way to measure employee engagement. It’s where CEOs who want to know what’s really happening within a workforce go… to get honest feedback… and to understand what needs to change for people to love their work using simple and trustworthy data.

Most people want to do great work, but they simply don’t know how. The result? Uninspired effort, unremarkable output, and unhealthy communication. We owe our teammates—and ourselves—something better. In his new book, Do Better Work, Lessonly CEO and co-founder Max Yoder shares 8 practical but profound ideas for transforming team culture and performance. No matter your rank or role, if you want to see more understanding, accountability, and progress on your team, Max’s stories and examples are for you. Because when we do better work—we live better lives. In this episode, you'll learn: Why clarity and camaraderie are so essential to team performance How vulnerability transforms teams and workplaces How to communicate more clearly with your team How to foster better work in a hostile workplace BIO: Max Yoder is the CEO and co-founder of Lessonly, the powerfully simple training software that helps millions of people learn and practice. He is the author of Do Better Work, a book about finding clarity, camaraderie, and progress in work and life. Max lives in Indianapolis with his wife, Jess. Learn about or buy Do Better Work at https://dobetter.work/ Learn more about Lessonly's training software at lessonly.com/learn-more  

Segment 1 with Ilyce Glink: Despite this being the best economy in generations, almost 80% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. Why is this? We discuss what's causing these financial stresses and why the financial stress of our employees are actually hurting our businesses. Find out what we can we do as small business owners to dial down this stress on our team and our business. Ilyce Glink is an award-winning financial journalist, television and radio personality, syndicated columnist, and the founder of four Chicago-based companies. Her latest company is Best Money Moves, a cloud-based, mobile-first financial wellness platform that employers give to their employees use to measure and dial down financial stress, lowering turnover and absenteeism while fostering engagement, productivity, and better health outcomes. Segment 2 with Max Yoder. Growing a business is all about leveraging your team. A challenge small business owners have, especially over a long period of time, is how to keep your company energized and your people motivated to achieve more. We show you the keys to teams doing better work. Max Yoder is the CEO and co-founder of Lessonly, the online training software that helps teams learn, practice, and as his new book is called, “Do Better Work”. Segment 3 with Rick Snyder: I have asked many small business owners over the last 25 years how they make decisions. I get everything from doing extensive analysis to they just went with their gut or their intuition. Which is the right decision making method for you? My guest argues that we don't use our intuition enough. He shows us the 6-step process for leaders, executives, and entrepreneurs to harness their intuitive intelligence in decision making. Rick Snyder is the CEO of Invisible Edge™. He is the author of “Decisive Intuition: Use Your Gut Instincts to Make Smart Business Decisions”. Sponsored by LinkedIn, Nextiva, Corporate Direct, MAKO and Web.com

  There are many strategies and tactics people can try when the goal is to #DoBetterWork, which just so happens to be the title of Max Yoder’s book. He’s the founder and CEO of Lessonly, and is our guest for episode 312 of the award-winning Site Strategics EDGE of the Web podcast. From the news:  Search Engine Journal: 72% of People Have Used Voice Search Through a Digital Assistant in 2019 () 75% of households will have at least one smart speaker by 2020. The Hustle: FB Expects largest-ever fine for data breach () FTC expected to fine $5B for privacy violations.  Search Engine Journal: Byte, the Follow-Up to Vine, Begins Sending Out Beta Invites () Will this reboot be able to take over TikTok’s stronghold? Sponsor: EDGE of the Web is brought to you by Site Strategics and they are offering to help you find out your digital marketing ROI. The Digital Marketing ROI Report will examine your existing SEO, content, social media, and PPC to help you discover your TRUE ROI. Visit  to get 30% off your comprehensive review of your digital assets!

On Epsidoe 34 of the Skill Up Build Up Podcast, we feature Lessonly’s Co-founder and CEO, Max Yoder. Max shares three themes that drive Lessonly forward and what creates the foundation for their culture: vulnerability, clarity, and camaraderie. His new book, ‘Do Better Work’, empowers and helps people become more self-aware and shares his insights as to why the world needs to have a laser focus on personal development. It has people asking themselves: How am I becoming a better human? Subscribe and listen to the Skill Up Build Up Podcast today!

Max Yoder is the founder and CEO of Lessonly, a team learning and training software company that raised a $8M Series B in late 2017. Max’s team is dedicated to helping people “Do Better Work,” which is where he got the title of his new book, Do Better Work: Finding Clarity, Camaraderie, and Progress in Work and Life. In this episode, we talk about vulnerability, sharing work before you’re ready, and why leaders don’t always know the answer (and that’s a good thing).For notes and a full transcription of the episode, visit woventeams.com/17. Max’s book is available here.You can subscribe to Max’s weekly note here.Special Guest: Max Yoder.

Share before you’re ready. Leaders learn the answer. In this episode of Powderkeg: Igniting Startups, you’ll meet Max Yoder making his third appearance on the podcast. As the CEO of Lessonly, a rapidly scaling tech company in Indianapolis, Max views his job as helping people flourish, thrive and understand themselves. In this conversation Max shares his learnings as a founder and breaks down some of the core principles of his newest book, “Do Better Work.” The mantras and habits that he shares are applicable to everyone, whether you’re leading a team, working on a team, or spending any time with people. In this episode with Max Yoder, you’ll learn: --- Methods to create clarity, camaraderie and progress in life and work --- Why it’s important to share your work before you’re ready --- How changing a personal habit is similar to the steps in a marketing funnel --- Ways to model the behaviors you’d like to see on your team --- The importance of processing emotions and how to prevent emotion from spilling over --- Compassionate, thoughtful behaviors that inspire better work If you like this episode, please subscribe and leave us a review on iTunes. You can also follow us on Soundcloud or Stitcher. We have an incredible lineup of interviews we’ll be releasing every Tuesday here on the Powderkeg Podcast.

Max Yoder says his new book — “Do Better Work: Finding Clarity, Camaraderie, and Progress in Work and Life” — is not just another set of lessons about leadership. It's actually just as much about teamwork and relationships — and it's chock full of examples to help readers better understand the concepts. The Lessonly founder and CEO talks with IBJ Podcast host Mason King about why he wrote the book, why vulnerability is the overarching theme and what he learned along the way about his own leadership. To learn more about the book, read IBJ's story here.

This week on Let’s Fix Work, I'm talking to Max Yoder, Co-Founder and CEO of Lessonly. Lessonly is an online service that provides bite-sized learning with big impact to today’s trainers, managers, and subject-matter experts to help them create training content in minutes. Max is also the author of Do Better Work: Finding clarity, camaraderie, and progress in work and life. In today's episode, Max and I flex our Midwestern accents and talk about training in the workplace. We also talk about vulnerability, leadership, and nonviolent communication. Not bad for a kid from Goshen, Indiana, right? So if you like tech entrepreneurs who don't pat themselves on the back for simply being CEOs, you're going to love Max! In this episode, you’ll hear: How Lessonly got started and how it addressed the need for training software in the workplace Max’s impression of Human Resources in the workplace today About Max’s book, Do Better Work, and what drove him to write it What is actually means to “do better work” Vulnerability: why Max doesn’t use the word and what he thinks it has to do with work. Plus, what to tell someone who has no space to be vulnerable in their job How Max got to a point in life where he actually gave a shit about work The Lessonly conference, some speakers that will be attending and what attendees can look forward to in 2019 Max shares his thoughts on broken workplaces and what he thinks the first step is in fixing them Resources from this episode: Thank our sponsor: Ultimatesoftware.com/LFW Book: Do Better Work: Finding clarity, camaraderie, and progress in work and life https://amzn.to/2USQlg7 Megan Jarvis, PHR: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megan-jarvis-phr-41961327/ https://www.indystar.com/story/money/2015/05/22/lessonlys-max-yoder-next- tech-star/27743731/ Lesson.ly: https://www.lessonly.com/yellowship/ *** We're proud to be sponsored by Ultimate Software. They're a leading cloud provider of people management solutions with a commitment to continuing education for HR, talent, and payroll professionals. Ultimate Software is hosting dozens of free educational HR workshops around the country. Check out ultimatesoftware.com/LFW for more information on how to earn free HRCI, SHRM, and APA recertification credits.

In this episode we talk to Max Yoder, CEO of Lessonly. Max shares... The idea behind his new book: Do Better Work Be Vulnerable: If you want your teammates to be real with you, you have to make it okay for them to admit when they feel uneasy, defeated, or scared. Share Before You’re Ready:If work were a Venn diagram, the circle of “What’s getting done” should overlap with “What’s needed.”

A well-defined company culture serves several purposes. First, it lays out the values that drive the company’s success. Second, it helps employees understand how to create that success. Third, it tells the world what makes the company unique. That last point is the focus of this episode of the Igniting Startup podcast. We explore how to promote company culture as a unique part of your overall marketing strategy. We’ve brought on two experts to help us dive into the subject today. Max Yoder, CEO, and Kyle Lacy, vice president of marketing, are two of the bright minds behind Lessonly, an Indianapolis startup that creates web-based learning software for organizations of all sizes. By hard-wiring company values like “do better work” and “share before you’re ready” into their product and marketing, Lessonly sells its customers a philosophy as well as a training solution. Max and Kyle have successfully transformed Lessonly’s culture into a movement that has culminated in Max’s new book, Do Better Work, releasing next month. Max, Kyle, and I talk in-depth on how to promote company culture and the marketing strategies that have gotten Lessonly to where it is today. We discuss how to build an extraordinary culture in the first place, and how to intentionally and intelligently market that culture to customers. You’ll also get a taste of what to expect in Max’s upcoming book and a preview of the talk that Kyle will deliver as one of the presenters at our MarTech Madness Pitch Night on February 28. In this episode on how to promote company culture with Lessonly executives Max Yoder and Kyle Lacy, you’ll learn: --- The importance of building your marketing around your company’s why. --- How marketing your culture can differentiate your company from competitors. --- Why your product should provide more than just ROI for customers. --- When writing a book might be a good marketing strategy for your company. --- How to build a culture that encourages trust, honesty and creativity. --- The story behind Lessonly’s Ollie Llama mascot and Golden Llama award. If you like this episode, please subscribe and leave us a review on iTunes. You can also follow us on Soundcloud or Stitcher. We have an incredible lineup of interviews we’ll be releasing every Tuesday here on the Powderkeg Podcast. Check it out at powderkeg.com/itunes.

Does product lead marketing or does marketing lead product? This is the question we set out to answer on this episode with Kyle Lacy, VP of Marketing at Lessonly. Outside of exploring this question, you’ll learn how Kyle launched the brand’s first user conference that didn’t feel like a user conference, and how they doubled down on their brand messaging while making sure the company never lost the voice of its founder - Max Yoder. In this episode, you’ll learn why Lessonly’s do-better work position is consistent through their product brand, messaging and product experience. You’ll also hear how this business-to-business product company refocused its brand message with an emphasis on connecting with its audience on a human level. Learn more about Lessonly Learn more about Kyle Connect with Kyle Connect with Christian Connect with Anna Learn more about Innovatemap

We're taking a break in between seasons to chat with Lessonly's CEO, Max Yoder. Max discusses the background behind his new book, Do Better Work, and how the principles laid out in the book are integrated throughout the Lessonly organization. Learn more and preorder your copy by going to www.dobetter.work.

“If you are waiting around for your company to own your development, you are going to be disappointed because no one can own it for you.” In season 19 episode 6 we are joined by Max Yoder.  He is the CEO of Lessonly and author of the new book "Do Better Work." In our conversation we cover: - How Music and Leadership Intersect - What does "Do Better Work" mean? - Why you should share before you are ready - Why you must communicate early and often - How to be patient with yourself - How to highlight what’s working - Why setting clear expectations is so important Learn more about the book here or Lessonly here.  

Compassionate communication has been one of the building blocks for Lessonly's success and in this interview we learn more about Max Yoder CEO and co-founder of Lessonly - "The powerfully simple training software that helps teams learn, practice and Do Better Work." Nathaniel Schooler 0:10 Thanks for tuning in everybody. Today, I'm interviewing Max Yoder - Ceo and Co-founder of Lessonly, with now over 2 Millions users, we are discussing B2B sales, compassionate communication and having difficult conversations. Lessonly is the powerfully simple training software that helps teams - learn, practice and Do Better Work. Well, it's really nice to see you, Max. Obviously, you're on video for for me, the people listening at home are quite excited to hear about Lessonly as well! Max Yoder 0:58 I appreciate being here. Nathaniel Schooler 0:59 It's quite amazing. I mean, so you've built an E-Learning business? Max Yoder 1:05 We've got training software for sales teams and customer service teams. Nathaniel Schooler 1:10 This is actually being used by lots of FTSE 100s and others? Max Yoder 1:16 We have 600 customers. We just surpassed 2 million unique learners, you know, really, really fun milestones. And we've been doing this for six and a half years, so to say, 600 customers and 2 million learners. When we first got started, I was thinking if we can get, you know, 50 customers, I'm going to be out of my mind! Exciting because I've never had a customer in my life. I had never closed a deal when this business started. So 50 was going to be enormous. It's been it's been great. Nathaniel Schooler 1:42 Wow, that's, that's really quite exciting. So when you when you started, it was a it was a big struggle, right. Like, I mean. Elon Musk talks about startups. And he says "Starting a business is actually a bit like eating glass, and then looking down the Abyss! it just sticks in my mind, you know, because, yeah, you know, I speak to loads of people that are in startups, and you've moved well beyond that, but that pain kind of it shapes you, doesn't it from the early days, right? Max Yoder 2:18 Yeah, I would. Often I would argue that I started a business because of pain, you know, I had a pain and I wanted to fill and it turns out, businesses don't fill pains. You got to go to therapy and counselling for that! But they can teach you a lot about yourself. So I learned a tonne about myself, this was my second business Lessonly. My first business was a polling and surveying tool. I ran that one for two years. And it didn't go great. I still had enough money in savings when we shut it down to get to spin Lessonly up and I had some partners with me at Lessonly as well, that really helps, you know, having other people around instead of kind of feeling like you're going it alone. But with Quipol not doing well, which is the first company I really felt a lot of pressure to make sure that goes well, because one thing not working out, you know, that's an anecdote, two things not working out. Now. It's like, you're just not good at this. So I was really invested in doing everything I could to make Lessonly work. Fortunately, we had a business that had a lot more directed inherent value to customers, which of course, is very important. And we just hit the market at the right time. You know, I think if you tried to start Lessonly today with the exact same playbook, you're going to struggle because markets come in waves, and they don't wait for people. So timing was right. The idea was right, we had enough patience to grow slowly, but surely. But Holy moly, was I stressed out, and I think I missed a lot of the journey by being stressed out. And I think, I'm only now you know only 5 or 6 years in did I realise how much I needed to work on myself, if I was going to be good in this company. And not just focus on the business but, but focus on just being a better version of myse...

Where does intuition create the most harm? Interpersonal communication and product development. Learn about Lessonly's approach to hard conversations and nonviolent communication. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

In this episode we sit down with Max Yoder from Lessonly. You can learn more about Lessonly at: https://www.lessonly.com/

www.hrcoaching.com/sbh72 How to Lead with Vulnerability and Appreciation with Max Yoder of Lessonly More from Max: www.Lessonly.com www.twitter.com/lessonly www.twitter.com/maxyoder Interact with the rest of the Employer Nation at www.theemployernation.com Connect with us: www.twitter.com/hrcoachingteam www.facebook.com/HRCoachingTeam Connect with Brad Owens at www.bradowens.com Send in your questions to ask@hrcoaching.com More episodes, free downloads and articles at www.hrcoaching.com Podcast Disclaimer: www.hrcoaching.com/podcastdisclaimer

Lessonly co-founder Max Yoder talks about his leadership style, the hard work it takes to create corporate culture, being engaged, buying a house, and what he loves about Indianapolis. 

Max Yoder is the Founder & CEO @ Lessonly, the modern learning software used by teams to translate important work knowledge into Lessons that accelerate productivity. They have raised funding from the likes of former ExactTarget CMO Tim Kopp, OpenView Ventures and New York Times Bestseller Jay Baer just to name a few of the impressive figures involved. Fun tact; they are based in Indianapolis and so Max brings a fantastic perspective on scaling and operating a growing SaaS business outside Silicon Valley. In Today’s Episode You Will Learn: How Max made his way into the world of startups and came to found Lessonly, one of the hottest SaaS startups outside of Silicon Valley? Max has previously stated that ‘SaaS scaling happens in 3 stages’. What are those stages? What is the most challenging stage? How does the CEO need to transition with each stage? How does Max view the scaling of the team? Why does Max think it is bad to give large and often inflated titles in the early days? How can CEOs most effectively look to place people in the right place to ensure the most productive of scaling? What does Max most look for in potential Lessonly employees? Why is it so fundamental that candidates have experienced some form of professional hardship before? How does Max view the role of the board in the scaling of a SaaS organisation? What are the components that make the best boards? What are the components that make the best board members? 60 Second SaaStr What one hire does Max wish he had made sooner? What SaaS reading material can Max not live without? Pros and Cons of running a SaaS startup outside the valley? If you would like to find out more about the show and the guests presented, you can follow us on Twitter here: Jason Lemkin Harry Stebbings SaaStr Max Yoder

This week we have another great show to share with you! We have Tristan Schmid and Rob Caputo of the Brewers of Indiana Guild as well as Stephan Vincent, Julie Barker, and Max Yoder to talk about eX Summit! -- First up on the show were Tristan and Rob. They are a part of the Brewers of Indiana Guild and are coming on the show to talk about the upcoming 22nd Annual Indiana Microbrewers Festival. It takes places on Saturday, July 29th at Military Park in downtown Indianapolis. The festival starts at 2 p.m. and you can buy tickets at their website here: http://indianabeerfest.com/ This festival has been named Indy's Best Local Beer Fest for the last two years and will feature 100s of beers from 100+ breweries. The event will also benefit the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society of Indiana as well. If you want to learn more about the Brewers of Indiana Guild, you can visit their website: https://drinkin.beer/ -- Next up we talk about the upcoming eX Summit that will happen on August 3 at Butler University. Event Founder Stephan Vincent joined us on the show to talk about his vision for the event. With this event, he hopes to bring a different lens to the employee experience - with a focus on brand and customer experience rather than a tradition HR angle. Also joining the show were Julie Barker, Senior Director of Global HR at Appirio, and Max Yoder, Co-Founder & CEO of Lessonly, - both of whom are speaking at the event this year. If you want to learn more about this event, please visit their website: http://exsummit.com/indianapolis/ And if you want to purchase tickets to the event, please use discount code EDGE5 to get a $5 discount. You can buy your tickets now here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/ex-indy-2017-tickets-34926188169?aff=EDGEOFINDY

Max Yoder is a lifelong learner and trailblazer who knows that clearly-defined processes empower employees to level-up their quality of work from average to exceptional. Yoder is the cofounder and CEO of Lessonly, a team learning software platform that lets companies capture internal knowledge, best practices, and team policies as searchable and assignable step-by-step lessons. Lessonly currently helps half a million users from hundreds of companies learn the processes they need to excel in their work (Lessonly.com). Yoder shares some of his most valuable insights on team building, team learning, and building a great company culture. Our conversation exposes how feats that look like magic are just processes, why you need to have difficult conversations with your teammates, how to be a great team player, and how to worry less and view challenges as opportunities. But Max and I also end up playing some of his original music, and he teaches me how to play one of his songs on his new album. We recorded this episode of Powderkeg with the help of our partners, Edge Media Studios, based in Indianapolis. And Max and I brought a few musical instruments with us to the studio, so make sure you check out the part where Max teaches me one of his latest songs he wrote. I had a blast recording this episode with Max. He’s a very down-to-earth guy with a great sense of humor who loves helping others succeed, and I’m honored he took the time to chat. Connect with him on Twitter and Instagram (@maxyoder) and on his website, MaxYoder.com. Enjoy this podcast with Max Yoder! You’ll learn: — How to approach things that look like magic and turn them into processes — How to be an effective team player — The 3 best culture tips for small teams — The power of hiring the right teammates — How the right investors will guide your business to success — Why you should stop worrying and view challenges as opportunities Please enjoy! ---- Download show notes and transcripts at www.powderkeg.com This episode of Powder Keg is brought to you by DeveloperTown. If you’re a business leader trying to turn a great idea into a product with traction, this is for you. DeveloperTown works with clients ranging from entrepreneurs to Fortune 100 companies who want to build and launch an app or digital product. They’re able to take the process they use with early stage companies to help big companies move like a startup. So if you have an idea for a web or mobile app, or need help identifying the great ideas within your company, go to developertown.com/powderkeg. Thanks again to everyone who has shared an episode of Powderkeg, subscribed to us on iTunes, or left us a review. It’s the only way we’re going to spread this message and reach new people and we could do it without you. We’re coming out with new episodes every Tuesday, so make sure you subscribe on iTunes or at powderkeg.co/itunes

Whatever you're scared of, here's how to fix that:I'm recording this episode from a recording studio in Bloomington where I'm creating audio versions of my books. I was freaked out about this process. What if people don't like the way they sound? What if I screw up? I'm not a big believer in writing down your goals because I feel like you're limiting yourself. But many times when you're scared of something, it's all in the abstract. To overcome your fears, write them down. Because when you take a piece of paper and write down all the things we're scared of, you can dimensionalize them, look them in the face, and overcome them.SUBSCRIBE: https://www.youtube.com/jaybaer00SPROUT SOCIAL SHOUT OUTToday's Sprout Social shout out goes to Max Yoder (https://twitter.com/maxyoder), who is the co-founder and CEO of Lesson.ly. Lesson.ly is a super easy system for online training that we use at Convince & Convert and that you should check out for your own courses and trainings.OUR SPONSORSCandidio (http://candidio.com), a simple and affordable video production company. Follow @candidio on Twitter. Sprout Social (http://sproutsocial.com), a social media management and analytics company that Jay uses for much of his social media every day. Follow @sproutsocial on Twitter.ABOUT JAY TODAYJay Today is a video podcast with 3-minute lessons and commentary on business, social media and digital marketing from New York Times best-selling author and venture capitalist Jay Baer. Join Jay daily for insights on trends, quick tips, observations and inspiration at http://bit.ly/JayToday.