Podcasts about hillsong nyc

Hey Everyone, Thank you so much for taking the time to listen and or view this content. On this particular episode of WDWP, I press into the importance of finding faith, holding to your faith, and being able to maintain faith no matter what. Some of those challenges included egregious presidents and losses in relationships. These losses lead us to existential crisis and God provides a new beginning at the end. (0:00) Introduction and Podcasts as a Source of Encouragement (2:23) Involvement with Hillsong NYC and Rediscovering Faith (8:01) Questioning Faith and Exploring Activism (13:12) A Moment of Crisis and Finding Hope (19:46) From Brokenness to Healing and Redemption (22:35) Continuing the Journey and Sharing the Message Support the podcast through Cash App $jpislavished One of my favorite messages from Carl Lentz https://youtu.be/4vALjv8KFPY?si=_JqCF1JnogeRa9Pu --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/wdwp18/message

Today we're joined by former Hillsong NYC pastor Carl Lentz for a vulnerable, unedited conversation about his past, present and future. (If you're tuning in for just that convo, it starts at the 40-minute mark.) For those checking out our normal show, the cast has this week's Slices — from the rollercoaster hot dog eating competition news, to celebs banning people for no good reason on social media. Plus, we have a fresh edition of 'Would You Rather?' that you don't want to miss. But the real highlight of the show is the long-form conversation with Carl. Make sure to listen and share it.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Carl Lentz opens up about infidelity that led to firing from megachurch Hillsong NYC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Top headlines for Thursday, May 30, 2024In this episode, we delve into the conclusion of Washington state's investigation into faith-based pro-life pregnancy care centers, with no charges pressed. We also preview the upcoming new chapter announcement from former Hillsong NYC pastor Carl Lentz and his wife, Laura. Plus, Disney-owned Hulu's acquisition of the U.K.'s first gay-themed reality dating shows, and the shifting perspectives of young Evangelicals in the U.S. regarding support for Israel. Subscribe to this PodcastApple PodcastsSpotifyGoogle PodcastsOvercastFollow Us on Social Media@ChristianPost on TwitterChristian Post on Facebook@ChristianPostIntl on InstagramSubscribe on YouTubeGet the Edifi AppDownload for iPhoneDownload for AndroidSubscribe to Our NewsletterSubscribe to the Freedom Post, delivered every Monday and ThursdayClick here to get the top headlines delivered to your inbox every morning!Links to the NewsWashington AG drops investigation of pro-life pregnancy centers | Politics NewsCarl Lentz and wife, Laura, tease ‘new chapter' in video trailer | Church & Ministries NewsPope Francis apologizes for using 'homophobic terms' in meeting | Church & Ministries NewsHulu to roll out gay-themed reality dating shows on platform | Entertainment News40% of Christians prefer not to tell others about their faith | Church & Ministries NewsSupport for Israel declines among younger Evangelicals | Church & Ministries NewsLibertarians select Chase Oliver as their presidential nominee | Politics News

Justin Bieber Embarks on Spiritual Journey Amidst Romantic Bliss with HaileyPop superstar Justin Bieber and model wife Hailey Baldwin continue their romantic adventures against the backdrop of Bieber's evolving spiritual path. The couple, who recently married for a second time, showcase both their strong marriage and Bieber's dedication to growth and wellness.On the personal front, Bieber and Baldwin were spotted leaving dinner with Judah Smith, pastor of the Churchome congregation in Los Angeles. This has sparked speculation that the Biebers may be embarking on a new spiritual chapter, shifting their association from the controversial Hillsong Church. The dinner follows the scandal and departure of Hillsong NYC pastor Carl Lentz due to moral failures in his personal life.Despite this religious shift, Bieber and Baldwin appear stronger than ever, frequently seen enjoying intimate dinners and cozy days in LA. During one particularly affectionate outing, Baldwin flaunted her signature model-off-duty style in a black sports bra. Other romantic nights saw the duo leaving trendy hotspots hand-in-hand, seemingly oblivious to the paparazzi presence.Bieber also earned "husband brownie points" from fans by surprising Baldwin with a custom-made artwork, underscoring the couple's mutual dedication. Bieber's Instagram post of the gift was flooded with praise for his romantic gesture.Professionally, Bieber remains focused on creativity and collaboration. He recently dropped a behind-the-scenes video working on "Snooze (Acoustic)" with songstress SZA. Baldwin raved about seeing two of her "favorite artists" unite, while the snippet highlighted their natural chemistry in the studio. In a humorous throwback moment, Bieber also revealed music mogul Diddy once rejected one of his early song demos, adding some insight into his long journey to stardom.While no direct updates on his health have emerged, Bieber's ongoing recovery from Ramsay Hunt Syndrome continues months after the partial facial paralysis diagnosis. His active travel schedule and creative output imply a careful balance of work and self-care. Though challenged with health issues, Bieber appears firmly rooted in his dedication to wife Baldwin, faith journey, and passion for music during this season of change and growth.

*In this episode we discuss evangelical deconstruction, church abuse, white supremacy and misogyny. Please use discretion when listening.* Did you happen to catch either of the Hillsong docs? Because I have questions, and I couldn't think of a better person to ask than Janice Lagata. As one of the founding members of Hillsong NYC, Janice remembers a time before Carl Lentz. Before NBA players, and Justin Bieber and Selena Gomez and 6 sermons a Sunday. Before the crowds of fans flocked to church to tithe to a group of nepo babies and their cronies, as they used the collection plate to fund their extravagant lives. Janice shares her thoughts on church planting, deconstruction, white supremacy and misogyny in modern day Christianity. Show Notes Connect with Janice : Instagram | TikTok | Podcast | Website Xenos is a Cult Let's Talk About Sects Pod Hillsong : A Megachurch Exposed The Secrets of Hillsong Hillsong's a Cult IGotOut.org Out of MLM The BITE Model LAMLM Book Club MLM Dupes How can you help? MLM Change Report Fraud Truth in Advertising Report to your state Attorney General's office! Not in the U.S.? No Problem! Support the Podcast! Website | Patreon | Buy Me a Taco | TikTok | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Discord | Merch! Life After MLM is produced by Roberta Blevins. Audio editing is done by the lovely Kayla Craven, video editing by the indescribable RK Gold, and Michelle Carpenter is our Triple Emerald Princess of Robots. Life After MLM is owned by Roberta Blevins 2023. Music : Creepy Musicbox by Dmitry Taras *Some links may be affiliate links. When you purchase things from these links, I get a small commission that I use to buy us tacos. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Janice Lagata returns! Janice and Nate were both members of Hillsong NYC until they left in 2017, and since then their former church has been the subject of numerous exposés and documentaries. The latest, The Secrets of Hillsong by FX and Vanity Fair dives into their disgraced former pastor, Carl Lentz. Though Janice isn't exactly thrilled with how the series handled the subject matter...Links:Janice: "The Secrets of Hillsong: An Open Letter to the Director"Nate: "The People that Matter"Janice's Podcasts:God Has Not GivenBad WordsJanice's Books:NEW! Grift of God: C.A.S.H. LIBS: Evangelical Launch EditionA Seriously Hilarious, Surprisingly Heartfelt, Completely Unauthorized Musical Parody: Act Onethe divide: Spoken Word Unspokens on Racial RiftsFollow Janice:InstagramWebsite---Follow us on Twitter at @fullmutuality, on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality, and on Instagram at @fullmutuality. Join the conversation in our Discord server at dauntless.fm/discord-server. Visit fullmutuality.com for more ways to connect with us.Full Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more content. Join as a partner on Patreon for exclusive content! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We dive deep into the shocking downfall of Carl Lentz, former pastor of Hillsong New York, and ask questions about the supposedly eye-opening revelations from "The Secrets of Hillsong" documentary. A former member of Hillsong NYC joins us to uncover what the documentary misses, the culture of celebrity pastors, and the consequences of blind faith in broken institutions.  Full show notes here (including a transcript of the whole show) Partner with us to hear our conversation with documentarian Professor Iwan Russell-Jones on why it's important for Christians to face the truth.  Connect with us on Instagram and Twitter

You've seen (hopefully) The Secrets of Hillsong. You lamented how it centered Carl Lentz cosplaying Zoolander at his "corporate" job (That wasn't just me, right?). And you were introduced to Janice Lagata, if you didn't already know her work. So forget Carl and listen to Janice tell her story of attending Hillsong "College" in Australia and being part of the beginning of Hillsong NYC. More importantly, listen to her talk about getting out and moving on. Janice's podcasts, God Has Not Given, and Bad Words, are great resources for all of us moving on from evangelical faith. This week, Scott's Songs of My Deconstruction segment takes us back to the beginning of his love for music with the incomparable Stevie Wonder. Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media Collective Join the Dauntless Media Discord for more conversation with all the podcast communities. Asian-American-Apostate- Losing Religion and Finding Myself at an Evangelical University is available now! Music by Scott Okamoto, Jenyi, Azeem Khan, and Shin Kawasaki and Wingo Shackleford Join the Chapel Probation Patreon  to support Scott and for bonus content.  Join the Chapel Probation Facebook group to continue the conversations. Follow Scott on Instagram and Twitter and Substack You can subscribe to Scott's newsletter and learn more about the book, the blog, and performances at rscottokamoto.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/scott-okamoto/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/scott-okamoto/support

... and very messy.It's not everyday Saved by the City hosts Katelyn and Roxy get invited to be on documentaries, but it is every Hillsong documentary. The latest documentary treatment of the global megachurch's descent into scandal recently premiered on FX and Hulu. And it featured our very own Ms. Beaty with some real zingers.It also featured Carl Lentz. Like a lot of Carl Lentz.The disgraced former pastor of Hillsong NYC took center stage once again and not everyone is happy about it. We talk with Janice Lagata, a former volunteer at Hillsong in Manhattan and fellow interviewee for the documentary, about how she felt after watching and why it prompted her to write an open letter to the director.GUEST:Janice Lagata is a musician, writer and host of two exvangelical podcasts: "God Has Not Given" and "Bad Words." See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Another big hit against the church, Vanity Fair partners with FX to present another exposition against Hillsong. This week, Elijah and Collier review the first two episodes that dropped. Weekly updates to follow!

Carl Lentz, former Hillsong NYC pastor, was featured in FX's documentary The Secrets of Hillsong. Here are my thoughts.

The worship services at Hillsong NYC could have been confused for concerts complete with celebrity guests like Justin Bieber, Kevin Durant, and Vanessa Hudgens. The New York branch of the Australian church even had its own rock star, Pastor Carl Lentz. In 2020, however, like most rock stars, temptation had become too much for Lentz. The pastor was dismissed from the megachurch for “moral failures.” Lentz later admitted to extra-marital affairs. Earlier this year, Lentz joined Mike Todd's Tulsa megachurch, Transformation, in an advisory role. Now Lentz can be seen as part of the FX documentary “The Secrets of Hillsong,” which explores the church's history of scandals. In a special edition of Tennessee Harmony, Anthony and Virgil Walker join Jason to discuss the show. What role does Hillsong's music play in the church's influence on culture? Was Carl Lentz treated fairly by the church? Does his past make him a more sympathetic figure? We want to hear from the Fearless Army!! Join the conversation in the YouTube show chat, leave a comment or email Jason at FearlessBlazeShow@gmail.com Get 10% off Blaze swag by using code Fearless10 at https://shop.blazemedia.com/fearless Make yourself an official member of the “Fearless Army!” Support Conservative Voices! Subscribe to BlazeTV at https://get.blazetv.com/FEARLESS and get $10 off your yearly subscription. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Gail is from Canada. Nate is from New York. Both are from an evangelical background and wound up engaged. Nate and Gail from the Full Mutuality Podcast talk American fundamentalism and Hillsong NYC and the highs and lows it offered. In Part 1 we meet them and find out how Nate went from being taught he was 'worse than Judas' to being up close and personal with some of New York's finest... Christians. Come chat! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Can someone be permanently disqualified from ministry? What does the Bible have to say on this topic, and how should we view the return of former Hillsong NYC pastor Carl Lentz? All of this and more is discussed by the regulars on this week's episode. Check it out! -------------------------------------------------Questions, comments, or feedback? We'd love to hear what you think!Send them to provokeandinspire@steiger.org, or send us a message on Instagram.Join the Provoke & Inspire Community!Click below to follow the regulars on Instagram!Ben PierceDavid PierceChad JohnsonLuke Greenwood

Dan receives the full internal report on Hillsong NYC and Carl Lentz from an anonymous domain called “Hellsong”. Along with Delali and Religion News Service's Roxanne Stone, Dan unpacks the report from the rampant abuse of power, sexual impropriety, and discrimination, to the reckless spending and financial misconduct by Hillsong NYC leaders.Watch Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed on discovery+. Go to discoveryplus.com/hillsong to start your 7-day free trial today. Terms apply.Find episode transcripts here: https://hillsong-a-megachurch-shattered.simplecast.com/episodes/ep8-unsealing-the-lentz-report Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

After two-and-a-half years away from Hillsong, Delali is finally ready to share her full, unfiltered story of her experience as the lead videographer of Hillsong NYC, working closely with Carl Lentz and other Hillsong NYC leaders. Delali opens up for the first time about the good, the bad, and the moments that brought her to her breaking point, causing her to walk away from Hillsong for good in 2020. Watch Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed on discovery+. Go to discoveryplus.com/hillsong to start your 7-day free trial today. Terms apply.Find episode transcripts here: https://hillsong-a-megachurch-shattered.simplecast.com/episodes/ep6-truth-to-power Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The crew is joined by comedian John B. Crist to talk about his new book, getting cancelled and: Ground rules TheosU Clubhouse Spirit Airlines is the worst When Chris got retweeted by Trump John Crist being canceled starter pack meme John Crist on being canceled Why deconstruction is like getting mad at your cult leader BEONES TO PEOCK (Bones to Pick) John Crist on his Hillsong NYC review Nathan on his Hillsong NYC experience & Carl Lentz *67 - Lance Cunnigham calls the Dove Awards Join the Clubhouse to get full access to the the TheosU Memes After Show with John Crist (https://www.theosu.ca/pricing) Offended about something we said or a topic we discussed? Feel free to air your grievances by emailing us at wahwahwah@theosu.ca. Want unlimited seminary level teaching in plain English? Subscribe to Theos University (https://www.theosu.ca/) Follow on Instagram: TheosU Memes (https://www.instagram.com/theosu_memes/) Theos University (https://www.instagram.com/theosuniver...) Nathan Finochio (https://www.instagram.com/nathanfinochio) Chris Palmer (https://www.instagram.com/chrispalmer) Bryan Vos (https://www.instagram.com/bryanthefox) Everett Wood (https://www.instagram.com/everettjame...) Presented by Vast Media

On April 11th, 2022, barely two weeks after the release of the documentary series, The Christian Post released an explosive article: a summation of a 51-page report from Hillsong's internal investigation into Carl Lentz and Hillsong NYC that was leaked to the publication. The leaked report describes an environment in which Lentz and Hillsong NYC had “free rein” to operate as they pleased, with virtually no oversight or accountability from Global Hillsong leadership. Dan breaks down the shocking new details with Hillsong NYC insider, Delali, and institutional trauma counselor, Loxie Gant. Watch Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed on discovery+. Go to discoveryplus.com/hillsong to start your 7-day free trial today. Terms apply.Find episode transcripts here: https://hillsong-a-megachurch-shattered.simplecast.com/episodes/ep2-the-lentz-report Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If you enjoyed Unraveled, check out a new podcast from discovery+ - Hillsong: A Megachurch Shattered. Listen to episode 1 here, and follow Hillsong: A Megachurch Shattered wherever you get your podcasts.The dark secrets of Hillsong Church were exposed, setting off a chain reaction of shocking new leaks and revelations. A follow-up to the documentary series Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed, this 7-part podcast series, Hillsong: A Megachurch Shattered, follows documentary filmmaker Dan Johnstone and former Hillsong NYC videographer and insider, Delali Rouge, on an emotional investigative journey to speak with more victims that have come forward in the aftermath of the documentary, expose damning new allegations against the megachurch and its leaders, and explore how the Hillsong community is dealing with the fallout. Dan and Delali also pursue the man who set the fuse on the Hillsong demolition, but has yet to speak: Carl Lentz. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If you enjoyed The Rise and Fall of LuLaRoe, check out a new podcast from discovery+: Hillsong: A Megachurch Shattered. Listen to episode 1 here and follow Hillsong: A Megachurch Shattered wherever you get your podcasts. The dark secrets of Hillsong Church were exposed, setting off a chain reaction of shocking new leaks and revelations. A follow-up to the documentary series Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed, this 7-part podcast series, Hillsong: A Megachurch Shattered, follows documentary filmmaker Dan Johnstone and former Hillsong NYC videographer and insider, Delali Rouge, on an emotional investigative journey to speak with more victims that have come forward in the aftermath of the documentary, expose damning new allegations against the megachurch and its leaders, and explore how the Hillsong community is dealing with the fallout. Dan and Delali also pursue the man who set the fuse on the Hillsong demolition, but has yet to speak: Carl Lentz.

The dark secrets of Hillsong Church were exposed, setting off a chain reaction of shocking new leaks and revelations. A follow-up to the documentary series Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed, this 7-part podcast series, Hillsong: A Megachurch Shattered, follows documentary filmmaker Dan Johnstone and former Hillsong NYC videographer and insider, Delali Rouge, on an emotional investigative journey to speak with more victims that have come forward in the aftermath of the documentary, expose damning new allegations against the megachurch and its leaders, and explore how the Hillsong community is dealing with the fallout. Dan and Delali also pursue the man who set the fuse on the Hillsong demolition, but has yet to speak: Carl Lentz. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Janice Lagata was a member/stage manager/super volunteer at Hillsong NYC and was featured in the recent Hillsong Documentary on Discovery+. She's shares her experience with Hillsong and why she left. Then we talk about Mega Churches in general. We finish the episode doing impromptu sermon illustrations/altar calls based on prompts given to us in the live chat. Follow Janice on Instagram: @godhasnotgiven www.janicelagata.com Follow the Evangelicalish team on Tiktok, IG, FB & Twitter: @evangelicalish, @pastorpaul_tiktok, @pastorfromok, @aprilajoy Or email us: evangelicalish@gmail.com

In this episode we discuss our visit to Hillsong Church in NYC. We discuss topics such as the environment, the music and the Sermon. Check out the episode and let us know your thoughts.

INTRODUCTION: Noemi Uribe (she/they) is a queer Latinx advocate living in Boston, MA. Growing up in a Latinx Pentecostal church shaped the way they saw homosexuality and Christian theology. After leaving their families church and attending a Hillsong church in Boston, they thought they had found a safe space to finally question their sexuality and faith. But what she experienced was the complete opposite. After leaving and surviving religious trauma, Noemi is now speaking out in order to warn other LGBTQ+ people and allies of the dangers of church ambiguity on LGBTQ+ policies and bring the good news of queer theology.   INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to): ·      Noemi's Traumatic Hillsong Experience ·      Noemi's Vulnerable Account Of Childhood Abuse·      Some Epic Hillsong “Church” Shade·      Undercover Conversion Therapy at Hillsong & Lakewood (and other churches)·      How Churches Abuse Their Volunteers·      The John Gray + Carl Lentz Connection ·      Welcoming Vs. Affirming aka A Side/B Side·      Dope Fiends Have More Love Than Church People·      Why You Must Scrutinize Your Pastors·      Why You Don't Really Know Your Pastors CONNECT WITH NOEMI: Twitter: https://twitter.com/noemimiuLinkTree: https://linktr.ee/noemimi.u CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixPinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/_saved/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonEmail: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com  DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: ·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o  https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o  TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs ·      Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)o  https://press.discoveryplus.com/lifestyle/discovery-announces-key-participants-featured-in-upcoming-expose-of-the-hillsong-church-controversy-hillsong-a-megachurch-exposed/ ·      Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levino  https://leavinghillsong.podbean.com ·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net VETERAN'S SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS ·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org  INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: ·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon  TRANSCRIPT: [00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: morning, everyone from the discovery plus documentary. Song megachurch exposed. I have with me today. No Emmy Orbay and she is a queer Latin X advocate in this here episode. Noam renders a real and raw account of her time.Under the oppression of Hillsong church, she talks about the dangers of church ambiguity. When it comes to [00:01:00] LGBTQ plus issues, she talks about her abusive childhood y'all and so much more from the moment I saw Nomi on this documentary, I was bonded to this girl and I knew that I wanted to talk to her. I'm so excited. We got to shoot this episode because I felt like it was extremely cathartic and healing for both of us. And I hope you get healed too.Hey, beautiful bitches out there and welcome to the sex drugs and motherfucking Jesus podcast. Hallelujah, tabernacle and motherfucking praise. I would say the happy what the fuck independence day weekend is. We're about to record this here on the 1st of July, but who the fuck feels independent considering the fuckery that the damn Supreme court just did.So I have with me today, I hope I don't butcher your name. Nomi [00:02:00]Noemi: close. De'Vannon: Yes. Noemi: It's pronounced no Emmy. So just think I have no Emmy awards. No De'Vannon: Emmy, not yet bitch, but you will hopefully. No. Emmy UBA. UBA. Yeah. UBA, no Emmy UBA. And So what do you think about this whole independence day and how it doesn't really fill all that independent anymore?Noemi: As an AFAB, it's really awkward because I no longer have bodily autonomy according to the Supreme court and as a brown person, I've kind of already known, known I didn't have the same liberties as other people. So it's kind of like an oxymoron of like on one side, it's like, I just lost more rights.And on the other was like, bitch, you knew that was gonna happen. Like, come on. so, yeah, it's a little, a little weird, but not surprised, honestly. Unfortunately. Now [00:03:00] you De'Vannon: said in a, a what's Noemi: that, that means A female, a assigned female at birth, which means I'm I'm non-binary. So I do not identify as a woman.I'm more like gender fluid there's days when I feel more feminine and that side comes out a little bit more and I'm okay with people calling me woman or using the pronouns, she, her. But now that I'm in more of a allowing myself to be, I identify more as non-binary on that spectrum. And I use she a pronouns and yeah, I identified now more with AFAB rather than a woman.So, yeah. De'Vannon: Hells. Yeah. Thank you for that education. We're gonna talk more about that towards the end of the interview, when we reference your beautiful resource list and you had a whole Prevo pronoun thing going on on your link tree, which I so, so impressed with. So, so y'all, I've been. This is one of [00:04:00] those interviews that I've been working my death off for, for a long, long time.And, you know, you know, I felt like I won not even a lottery, cuz this is invaluable to me, but this is like jackpot score. Hell yeah. I was able to get this interview. So discovery plus released a, a documentary, a three part documentary each part's about an hour long that came out months ago and This, this, this, this beautiful soul here was one of the people featured in that documentary.This documentary was the most epic shade that I ever saw through a heal song church in Australia. The well, well deserved shade too. I might add. And, and no, Emmy was a person who was featured in this documentary. I love the work that discovery did, but when it was done, I felt like I felt cheated. I was like, I wanted to see more of no [00:05:00] Emmy.And so I reached out to her and I'm like, girl, you need more screen time than what they gave you. So I'm gonna give you a whole hour to just talk about youth and so . Thank you. And so tell me, what was your experience like being filmed in the documentary itself? Noemi: It was definitely different from being talking to a reporter.So I had done articles before we had started and I say we, because it was a collective of us who had left Hillsong who kind of reconnected after we left in about early 20, 20. And we started like talking about our experience and we came across a reporter who was interested and they became interested after Carl was fired Carl lens, who was a former pastor of Hillsong NYC and of the east coast.So after all that shit show went down, [00:06:00] everyone was like, wait, you've been talking in the, in, so on social media, you've been calling out people. Can you tell us a bit more? And mainly they were like, do you know Carl, did you ever talk to Carl? So it was really awkward because they clearly had a direction they wanted to take.Things in. And they wanted to often like flip stories say things I didn't say. And it was just like a constant back and forth of like, please don't like misinterpret my words. This is what I meant. This is how I'm going in a documentary. It's your face, your voice in your words, like you're speaking. And people are hearing from you directly, and that's a very different experience, especially when you have three cameras pointing at you, but you have to be facing another person to not be looking directly into the camera.You kind have to get like, comfortable with that. And we spent about [00:07:00] five hours recording. So I was able to sit with them, share all of my story and I knew all of it. Wasn't gonna make it because if they shared everyone's story, like completely, we would still be watching it right now. It'd be like seasons long from all the abuse and things that Hillsong did.But I, I understood why they didn't include as much as they did. It was more of the three episodes were more of like setting the stage for people to understand what Hillsong is, who they are, what they do. And I, I was, I'm gonna be honest. I was a little frustrated that they didn't include more of my experience, but I understood the direction that the director went in.The director and I are, are. Are like friends. Now we, we meet up often. Actually. I just met up with him last week and we're talking about projects or different things that are happening to [00:08:00]continue on to allow more people to come on board. So yeah, I think my experience overall with the documentary was a good one.It definitely, there's still a lot of content that hasn't been shared that was recorded and I'm hoping that they use that in the future because they have it and we'll see how things go from there.De'Vannon: Thank you for that beautiful breakdown. What was what was something that was really important that you did share that didn't make the cut that you would like to say right now? Noemi: I think something that was really frustrating that wasn't included was my experience being a queer person at Hillsong that was not mentioned, it was not brought up because that's like the basis of what happened at Hillsong.The how their they're. How can we [00:09:00] call it? I'm like forgetting my words right now. They're they're. Purposeful ambiguity of Hillsong, like of their, of their policies, of their LGBTQ policies and how it affected my mental health drastically and how they approach supporting me through my mental health crisis.And the drastic difference between friends between Pastor who was unqualified to support you through pastoral care? Because at hillside they don't, they don't even go to accredited school in comparison to a pastor who was there for me as well. And she had gone to seminary and had her master's in divinity and was taught how to be there for pastoral care for someone Those were the two big things.So LGBTQ policies and their lack of or their ambiguity, their lack of, of [00:10:00] clarity on LGBTQ policies within the church for volunteers and for attendees and members and their lack of qualified pastoral care when it comes to any mental health, mental health crisis or anything that happens of abuse within the church.And you're seeing a lot of that now where they had that lack of experience, that lack of care for people that you are seeing victims being shamed victims being said that they are gossiping. So it's like a back and forth De'Vannon: Uhhuh, as you're saying that. And I'm so sorry that you had this terrible experience.It reminds me of the of the Exodus. Movement, which I, I learned more about from the pray away documentary, which is on Netflix and how they mm-hmm , you know, there was a, there was some buckery in there with them using these supposed psychologists and whatever the case may be to come [00:11:00] in, you know, and buffer, you know, their motives to try to do conversion therapy.It also reminds me of say, like, say under that, that last rat ratchet ass president's administration, how he would have these random. Doctors of all kinds of shit that had nothing to do with pandemics coming in, giving medical advice. Mm-hmm so it sounds like they were just trying to get people who sounded more important than what they actually were.Yeah, for sure. And then, you know, when we're setting in, in front of all of these, you know, the television watching, you know, the presidents in the news or in church, you know, we're, we're positioned to believe them, so they know they can take advantage of our naivete and our GU ability. Noemi: Yeah. And to go along with that Hillsong a few years, Like a few, probably in like early 1990 to mid two thousands, they were actually, I'm not sure if my timeline's correct.So don't quote me on that, but I know they were affiliated with [00:12:00] the conversion therapy organization in Australia. And I found this out after I left and I did more investigation on my own. And when the organization came upon more scrutiny of what they were doing in Australia, they disassociated, but the practice within Hillsong continued.So I experienced some of that in Boston. De'Vannon: Yeah. Fuck. That's when you think it can't get any goddamn damn worse. Yeah. I, Noemi: the same, the same reaction you're having right now is the same reaction I had when I found out. Yeah. De'Vannon: Okay. So you attended Hillsong Boston? Yes. Okay. So conversion therapy. Let me write this down because okay.I'm, I'm like I'm channeling my inner Tina Turner bull from what's love got to do with it. None of your ho GAO numb of [00:13:00] your holding GAO. If y'all, haven't seen the movie, you need to, it's a Buddhist chant that apparently help you keep your shit together. I love that. so, okay. So in the documentary, you, you know, presented as a, a volunteer, this is where I bonded with you because when I was at Lakewood church in Houston, Texas, which is under Joel Ostein, our largest megachurch here in the United States, mm-hmm , you know, I was a big volunteer there.And when I saw you, I was like, oh my God, here's another person who, who had given their soul, heart, mind, body money, time and wage too much. And a lot of shit, we can never get back to a church only to be treated like shit mm-hmm . And I said, I, my souls reached out to you. And I was like, you know, cyber hug through the TV.I hope she feels it wherever she's at right now. And and so when, before I got fired from, from Lakewood church [00:14:00] and I hope one day we do like a leaving Lakewood because there's other people out there who've been fired from lake, you know, volunteers. Yeah. But fired for not being straight. I know this because I've come across them in gay bars and stuff.Wow. And when the conversation came up and they were like, yeah, that happened to me too. So I hope somewhere, somewhere, somewhere, someone will wanna do a documentary about the, the abuse that Lakewood church does because people are, are leaving there as well. But we're, we're here to talk about you, but they'll, Noemi: they'll protect people like John Gray.De'Vannon: Homotherfucking Godcuy son. That's one of the things that I do not understand why I say like Oprah would give him of all fucking people, a show. Okay. I'm looking at him. I'm going closet gay, man. [00:15:00] I'm going. Oh yeah. Amongst all the things Noemi: my Gayar is like going off when they see him. Yes. De'Vannon: And, and people are like, well, how do you know?I'm all like, bitch, it's abundantly clear to those of us who know. And I didn't know that his. I don't even know what sort of adjective he would attach to that, you know, reached, you know, globally enough, you know, and you mm-hmm I'm like, Noemi: well, Hillsong gave him a platform too. So that also helped him. Yeah.He went, he went to Hillsong conference and preached at a few. De'Vannon: Yeah. You know, that doesn't surprise me because Joel Ostein in the, the, the fucker who runs Hillsong shit, you got so many, you got Joel, the musician, John shit. Yeah. Your pastor, you know, they're all like Brian Houston, you know, they're all like buddy, buddy.Noemi: Oh yeah. And Carl, Len and John uh, Don gray were friends before Carl [00:16:00] even came to New York and before John was even in Houston. So they knew each other way before. Stand. Yeah, so they like followed each other because Carl went to the inauguration of when John Gray received a church in Greenville. So he was there, De'Vannon: bitch.Birds of motherfucking feather flock together. Noemi: Yeah. It's all. We have a small world everything's interconnected, especially within evangelicalism. De'Vannon: This is why I'm glad we're having this conversation. Dumb ass Christian people. And I can call them that because I used to be one setting there, all deer in the headlights and believing the image that preachers put supposed preachers and prophets and whatever put forth.I never questioned anything. And I boss the damn bullshit and I, I just don't like the fact that I did that. And so that's like a huge reason why I do what I do now, Noam and I are gonna tell y'all this truth. [00:17:00] And you can sit there at your damn church and keep being a dumb ass stupid bitch. Or you can wise up and leave or adjust your expectations.Or, but if, I mean, just fucking go because yeah. Get out run while you can. So, oh my God. So, so the conversion therapy, but when I got fired, let wood church offered me what I call a conversion therapy package. And so when you said that, that word. It triggered it in my ear because, you know, Joel Ostein does not get on stage and go, Hey, we like to do conversion therapy behind the scenes.Noemi: Of course, they're not gonna do De'Vannon: that. No, my fault was when I applied to volunteer in the kids' ministry. Ooh. They had on the application. We do not want homosexuals working with our kids, but having just gotten out of the military during don't asks, don't tell I was like 22, 23. I was thinking in my head, okay, this is just [00:18:00] another one of those don't asks.Don't tell moments no big deal. So I just went on with it. Okay. I didn't understand the severity of just, you know, how they think, how church people think you're either straight or pedophile. Mm-hmm that, that, that's just, that's just desperate. Yeah. They think Noemi: homosexuality and pedophilia go hand in hand.De'Vannon: Yeah. Well, not even homosexual bisexual train if you're yeah, that's true. Straight or pedophile, that's it? Yeah. Those things. And so. So then they were like, yeah, you gotta change the gay shit. If you wanna stay here and stuff like that. So what did you see like this? You know, and as you're saying, like basically behind the scene, you know, all of these people, Carlish John Gray, Joel Ostein, Brian Houston, everybody's friends behind the scenes.So they're exchanging ideas, best practices and everything like that. So that's why I'm not surprised. You're seeing one thing pop up at Hillsong. You see it pop up at Lakewood at other churches, too smaller churches we've never heard of, but smaller churches like to mimic [00:19:00] Hillsong. Oh yeah. And Lakewood.So what, what did you see in terms of conversion therapy? A hill song? So Noemi: first we have to set the stage for what conversion therapy looks like within evangelicalism, because it is very different from like an Exodus. They're not gonna be explicit, like. Exodus times. Okay. When that organization existed often conversion therapy within a church is more subtle of.Telling you, you can not, you don't have to identify it's all about identity mm-hmm . And that's the direction that Hillsong took. So I had to be in some mentorships. That's what they called it. When I finally came out to my leader during my time, I was a leader at Hillsong. I was leading a connect group, which is like a small group during the week for people who spoke Spanish, because I wanted to bring more of my people, Latinx people together or [00:20:00] Hispanic to be more specific.And I was a service lead for a team called events. And we were basically in charge of running the whole church, making sure that everything was running correctly. We were like the middle man between the leaders, the pastors and all the other teams. So that was us. So I was one of those service leads. I was one of those leaders in that team.So as I'm like in these leadership positions, I start questioning my sexuality. I come to my leader of the team and like kind of a good friend and let her know like, Hey, this is happening. I'm coming out to you. At the time I was identifying as bisexual, just because I was too afraid to fully accept that I was gay.Mm-hmm mainly because of family reasons as well, the way I grew up in a Pentecostal church that was like super fundamentalist. So at the time that, that was the safest [00:21:00] identity I've I felt I was okay with. So I come out to my leader and she says, okay well, the things you're doing right now are fine because you're not like facing front.Like you're not in front of people, like on stage. But if you do wanna do things like that, it's we can have a conversation. Conversations can continue. So I started asking her questions, like, what does this mean for me as a person within the church? What does this mean? In general? At the time I was still identifying as this gender.So my gender identity wasn't even coming into question. It was just my sexual orientation. And so she said we can continue these conversations and see where things go. So as time continued and the conversations continued, I started noticing a pattern of then wanting me to identify as a child of God, rather than queer, or rather than by, or rather [00:22:00] than LGBTQ.As something that was mutually exclusive and it was being pushed more and more, but the opportunities to grow in leadership were being reduced and drastically being pulled back slowly. They started affecting my mental health. So then they started blaming my mental health on my sexual orientation saying that because I'm identifying this way that my mental health was going downward spiral, that it was all interconnected.So for me, that was really frustrating because that was obviously not the case. It wasn't an internal thing. It was more of the, the external affecting my internal within my community. And it got to the point where the leader that I was talking to could no longer Quote unquote control me. So she kind of ghosted me and moved me onto the next pastor.So I [00:23:00] went and had to be talking now to a higher up someone above her. And he approached me with. Calling it mentorship. So we had to meet at more scheduled times with my previous leader. It was probably once a week that we would talk and the conversation would come up with this pastor. It was now more scheduled and I had to go and meet with him more frequently.And the conversations continu to, why are you identifying this way? How can we remove that? How can we get you to give it you're all at Hillsong and remove this part of you. And he started giving me more of an open perspective as to what was happening in New York, where there was people there who were LGBTQ, but we're no longer identifying that way because Hillsong had convinced them to no longer do that.So he was saying, I could connect you with these people. They're amazing. They can help you out in your journey. And I was. [00:24:00] No, because they're not mutually exclusive. So this was happening within Hillsong on my own. I was already going on my queer theology journey of learning about queer theology, learning about side ACE, I B what a, what is affirming mean within Christianity?What is the difference between welcoming and affirming? Because we hear those two words a lot within evangelicalism, mainly. And so, as I was becoming more confident in, in who I was, and in my identities on the flip side, I was getting all of these questions from hill song, through the mentorship of trying to convince me to identify otherwise.And when I was in these meetings, I could now be more confident and say, no, These aren't mutually exclusive identities. These are two completely different identities that don't intertwine. Well there is intersectionality within them, but they're not mutually [00:25:00] exclusive. And that's when they didn't like that anymore.When I would ask explicit questions, they would always be to around the Bush until I was very detailed on the questions that I was asking. And I learned how to ask questions through queer theology and through other people who had done it. I started asking things like if I were to ever get married and my partner happens to be of the same sex, would you perform our marriage as a pastor clergy who has that authority under us law?And they would be like, oh, well his Hillsong church doesn't really perform these kinds of things only for friends. And I was like, Ugh. Okay. So I was like, as my friend, because they would call themselves that to me in order to make the conversations feel more vulnerable. Supposedly I was like, as my friend, would you marry me and my friend who my partner who happens to [00:26:00] be of the same sex and they would just kind of beat around the Bush until I got a straight, no, I was like, okay, great.One answer. Number two. Would you hire, would Hillsong church hire someone who is openly queer? Who doesn't have to hide anything and maybe even happens to be married with someone of the same sex. And they kind of were just like, kind of quiet about it. And they were like, well, we have these like values and beliefs in hill song and the person who we hire has to align with them.So I was like, so is that a yes or a no, like give me the straightforward. And until he finally like, said, no, well, we wouldn't, we can't do that. I was like, okay, check number two. So I started getting all of these straightforward answers and it took me about a year and a half, almost two years to get those straightforward answers.And that was my turning point of. This is no longer a [00:27:00] community. I am safe in. My body knew that and my body kept telling me that, but your brain is often takes a little bit longer and your heart takes a little bit longer to come around. So once they finally connected the two and I reconnected with my body I was able to, to leave.So that was some of my conversion therapy experience at Hillsong. De'Vannon: Thank you so much for sharing that annoying me. So I heard what you were saying like about. How they are, they're not upfront with it. They're not gonna get on stage, like the Exodus, move it and be like, yeah, you're you gay people.You're gonna become UNGA today. So the way they did it for me at Lakewood, they, they offered me like books. They were like, we pre-selected these books for you to become UNGA. And I have a feeling that had I accepted that and went into submission. Then it would've led to all the things that you just said, you know, all the different counselors and everything like that.Yeah. Yeah, Noemi: I had to [00:28:00] do devotionals as well. As part of like the, the mentorship, some of them were we wage war. So like your mind is in warfare and you had to fight against your mind. And as I would do the devotional, whatever I wrote down, I had to take a picture and send it to my leader and they would have to read through it to ensure that I was in including anything queer, any queer theology, that it was more generalized the way they wanted it to be.De'Vannon: Mm-hmm, so not authentic, not authentic, not directly from heaven through your heart, you know, filter through Hills song. Yeah. Just like these churches messages filtered, pre edited, and then supposedly divine. Yeah. You know, at least when they pulled you from , your ministry was gradual. I'm gonna talk about how you, how you felt like it affected your mental health more in depth.Mm-hmm . So you were doing a lot there. And this is where, [00:29:00] why I was so excited to have you on my show because I had never met anybody who was as ingrained in their church as a volunteer, who was ripped away from it. So I really felt like, you know, we were siblings in a very kind of twisted yet comforting way.yeah. From a bond trauma bond. Yeah. We've told a trauma bond. So, so I was the volunteer supervisor for Wednesday night, over a few hundred children. I've supervised 20 other teachers. And then also taught my own great group of third grade boys. I was in charge of the check-in kiosk as well. I also was a worship leader for the kid in the kid's life for Wednesday night.Then I also sang in the huge ass adult choir on the weekends too. Oh, wow. And when they, when they fired me, they didn't gradually, they just chopped it all off at once. And so, and so Wow. I know the trauma that I experienced from having everything chopped off all at once. Now, you said it affected your mental health.Is there [00:30:00] any kind of words you can use to describe the degradation that happened? Noemi: That's a good question. I never thought of it in that way. I think for me words that I can use to describe it traumatic is like the biggest one because it activated my PTSD, I already had PTSD from a previous experience as an adolescent.And it was more that was a very traumatic experience. So. being at Hillsong was like reliving it. And I didn't know, because I was undiagnosed until more recently my therapist and my team of doctors have like finally diagnosed me and we can take a good, clear path towards healing. Mm-hmm . But at the time, I didn't know.[00:31:00] And so my experience at Hillsong was very traumatic and I was reliving a lot of, of what I had experience as a, as a young person as an adolescent. It was also very abusive because use of, because they tell you how much every single Sunday they appreciate you. But when you come down to your lowest moments of me being in a psychiatric hospital for trigger warning contemplating suicide, and almost like attempting it.When I went to the psychiatric hospital, no pastor ever visited me when I was there and only like two friends from the church went. And so that for me was very eye opening because the pastor that I had connected with who was my best friend's aunt, and she was part of [00:32:00] the UCC church, the United church of Christ, who is like the first church in the us that was openly affirming to LGBTQ people.And she's this black woman amazing mentor to me. She came and visited me. I'm not even a member of her church, but yet she came to visit me and the pastors where I was giving all of my time to. Never even bothered to send me a card flowers, call me nothing. They didn't even like mention it. I ended up, I got discharged or actually it was around this time in 2019, that, that it happened.I got discharged right before 4th of July. And that Sunday following I had to be in church and deliver the same quality, the same quantity that they expected from me as if nothing before I was even in the hospital. So that was very eye opening to me. So I'll say very abusive and manipulative and gas lighting [00:33:00] because.They, they want all of this work from you and they, they expect all of this free labor, but they don't want to give anything in return. They don't even bother to like check in on how you're doing mentally, how you're doing physically there's people who would like break their arms and they would show up and still volunteer.And so it's very like when it comes to my mental health, it's something that is very like, frustrating that they didn't even see the signs of how I was spiraling down that any other person who doesn't even know too much about it could see it. But yeah, I don't know if that fully answers your De'Vannon: question.It does. And it gives me so many more for whatever comfort is worth. Again, for our trauma bond. I feel like I'm a part of this. [00:34:00] Group of the church, kids who got their feelings hurt, you know, a church is a, and more than our feelings hurt. We were just damaged. Mm-hmm , you know, and really, really destroyed, you know, a church is supposed to be the safest space on earth and it is absolutely not that.And, but, you know, I feel like we are, you know, all siblings now and I feel very much a part of the P of the people who have left hill song. I just feel that way. And so for, so for whatever is worth though, maybe it might bring some comfort to you on some level to know that you're not alone. And the same thing did happen to me as well.You know, I had, I had been volunteering. For years at Lakewood. And I'm sorry that it happened to you too. I feel like we could say we're sorry. You know, so for so damn much. Yeah. You know, and it means a lot to hear that and to, and to be able to say that too, but when I got fired from there after all those years and the supervising, all those people, it was the same thing at Lakewood.Oh, we couldn't do this without you hashtag I am lake, [00:35:00] you know, mm-hmm, great. Great, great. You're wonderful. Until we find out you're not straight. And then it's by Felicia bitch be gone. Actually, we can totally do this without you and nobody ever called or would ever to come and find out where I had disappeared to.And the, the fucked up part about it is when I was homeless, you know, a drug dealer and all of that in Houston. Same, you know, because I really spiraled down after I got kicked outta Lakewood, you know, I can only imagine there's goddamn dope things that will come and check on you. If you haven't come to the dope house to the trap house in a day or two, they're gonna be like, oh bitch, where's T-bone we ain't seen him in a minute.We need to go find this motherfucker. Wow. Homeless, dope meth heads will come and check on you. They haven't seen you. And the damn church people didn't. Noemi: Wow. I, that kind of happened after I left. So the way I, they didn't cut me off completely, but they were slowly pushing me out of like, I was ghosted by my previous [00:36:00] leader on the events team.So I no longer felt comfortable being a part of that team. So I left it because I was like, this is really, really awkward. I started volunteering with a pastor supporting him, the pastor that was mentoring me. I was doing some admin work with him. And then those mentorships became ghosting sessions where I would show up and he wouldn't.And I did around four times, I showed up and he never showed up. Denver texted me, called me before or anything. So after that, I was like, okay, I can see what's happening now. Like, they're just trying to like push me out. So I ended up leaving. And no one ever even like, I, I ended up stopped attending in like early December.No one ever even called or texted a few friends that knew that, like we talked a bit more called and texted me and checked in, but it wasn't like a like a, Hey, how are you doing? Wish you could be here. [00:37:00] I ended up going back in December. 29th, 2019. Because the pastor who I was mentoring was leaving to Sydney to go be trained, to be a pastor.I was like, wait, you weren't even qualified to do this. And he asked me like, oh, are you attending any church? And I was like, no. And he's like, oh, that's so sad. And I was like, no, honestly, I'm doing amazing. Like my mental health is doing so much better and he kind of just stayed quiet about it. And he's like, well, you can always come back.This is your home. And I was like, no, it's, it's really not a home is where you're, you're welcomed in wholeheartedly for who you are and you don't have to hide any side of you or any part of you. And I was like, this place is not my home because I do, when I walk into these doors and through these doors and he kind of just stayed quiet.And I was like, this is just a house. It's, it's not a home. It's just a [00:38:00] building with people in it. And I left and I didn't turn back and COVID kind of helped with that cuz often when you leave a place You have a little inching to go back. It's kind of like an addiction of like, wait, I'll go check back.So I did end up going in February of 2020 to just see some friends. And I was slowly kind of starting to feel like the need to be back there and COVID hit. And I had to, everyone had to quarantine and like no services in person. So that really helped me like rip the bandaid off and like not go anymore.So I, yeah, De'Vannon: well, thank God for COVID, you know, seriously COVID day, a lot of great things, really. And so, so, and, and, and what Naomi is saying, y'all I want you to be sure you pay a close attention. What she's saying is [00:39:00] that these churches. Use a lot of platitudes and a lot of repeat words that have no heart, no soul, no emotion, no feeling behind them.It's like, it's a script, it's a track they've been trained well. And if you listen to different churches, they say the same shit, you know? Yeah. It's all very, like, everything's gonna be all right. Everything's great. We love you. You're the best. You're great. You're the best ever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.When they claim the prophesy, it is very general. I see great things coming from you. It's gonna be your best year, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. Everyone says the same thing. Yeah. Make your own decisions. We're just letting you know it's bullshit. And so , and I'm not saying every church is bullshit or every pastor is bullshit, but I'm saying you must scrutinize your leaders and not take what they say for face value.And if you get that feeling like something might not be right, then don't [00:40:00] rationalize it. Noemi: Yeah. And I think when it goes back to scrutiny, this pastors who are actually trained to be pastors and who are qualified to be, pastors are okay with scrutiny. They want you to scrutinize them. They wanna be better.They wanna learn from what mistakes they've done and how they can improve upon them. Pastors who are not, are often huge narcissists who are just doing it for their own, like up like upping their ego and their narcissism. And so when you call them out, it's like calling out all of who they are. And so they point the finger at others, which is what often happens with people like Brian Houston, Carl lens, John Gray, Joel Stein, where they're like, oh, it's not me.God called me. How can I do anything wrong? It's these people, these gossipers. And so they'll point it back at other things. And so those are the huge differences I've seen where scrutiny is really well [00:41:00] welcomed from other pastors who are actually trained to do it in comparison to pastors who are not.De'Vannon: You're right. My, my evangelist Nelson who raised me spiritually and everything, very high clevery woman, a true prophet test, not none of this vague shit. If she said something was gonna happen in 10 years on the day did, and there's many, many people who can vouch for that though. She's no longer alive.She told me when they PA you know, a preacher pastor or whatever you wanna call it is either gonna be really, really strong or really, really weak mm-hmm . There is no in between when it comes to this and the reasons for that, or a whole topic of discussion for another day, but it is the truth and you see weakness, doesn't have a.Narcissism doesn't have a face. So what I'm saying is you could be looking at a well-dressed person. Who's talking himself, a preacher, prophet, pastor, whatever, with all the money and all the, as kisses around them [00:42:00] and all the congregation. And you might be looking at somebody who has fallen or somebody who's a total narcissist and you don't know it.Mm-hmm . And so. And I can tell that people who go to churches have not accepted the fact that their preachers could be anybody because when the, the preacher's scandals come out, that everyone's clutching their pearls, like it's so impossible. They did what they did stole the money, fuck the thousand bitches or boys, whatever the case may be.Well, if, if you were levelheaded and you understood that that person on stage is human and can do anything, you might not appreciate what they did, but you wouldn't be so taken aback. Mm-hmm then that lets me know that people setting in churches, just like how I used to. And you used to give these people too much credit.So I just wanna remind people that preachers, when they go up there are at work and they're putting on a show just like most people do when they go to work. That is one side of them. And you also don't spend really any private [00:43:00] time with these people, as much as they call you family and friends. Bitch, can you pick up the phone and call them on a bad day?Will you be going with them on the next family vacation? Mm-hmm you don't really know these people. Noemi: That's true. My dad, my dad was actually a pastor. And so that's very true. People thought they knew him by what they would hear on Sundays while he preached or by grabbing lunch with him after church. But people didn't really know him at all.Like I, as his kid knew him, but whenever someone would be like, your dad is this, this and this. I was like, actually, you're kind of incorrect. This is who he is actually. Mm. But you're very true. Yeah. That's true. Mm-hmm De'Vannon: hell she from, from being a dope dealer, I used to sell drugs. The district attorneys, lawyers, very rich.I'm surprised, very rich old men who like to smoke crack and get fucked in the ass by ethnic men who on the, who come [00:44:00] out. on Mondays looking as conservative and white as ever. But. Bitch. From Friday night to Sunday night, it's crack and Dick. Noemi: Wow. But is the Bible say there's nothing new under the sun.De'Vannon: It not nothing new, but some shit, some shit is still like Gastly. Yeah, but, but we're saying all this to let you know that you don't really motherfucking know people, you can be married to people and you don't really know them. So how the hell you really know this damn preacher mm-hmm , but you wanna know them and it makes you feel special because you're, you feel some sort of attachment to someone who's on TV or to someone who has money because you wanna be around power and people are well, they make you, they make Noemi: you think that you know them too.They do. Yeah, they play, they play a good game and like people and they'll get like shows [00:45:00]made of them and, and that just exalts their ego, but it's not who they really are. De'Vannon: Mm-hmm lying sucks the shit. And and I heard you say that something happened in your adolescent. Is that something that you're not at a point where you're ready to talk about?Noemi: No, I can talk about it. So I had, I, how can I explain it? So I moved to Mexico when I was 11. My dad was a pastor and he became ill and he had become undocumented as well. And so it was best for him to move back to their country. So to my parents' country which was Mexico. And so my sisters and I moved with them and we experienced some trauma there because all of my dad's brothers were [00:46:00] also pastors and they were the worst kind that you could ever meet as well.Cheating on their wives, political, like they they're in it for politics and money. And so I saw all of that. And that for me was like very eye opening as to what the church really was. And my cousins stayed in it because like, it's the family business and the ones who couldn't take it anymore would leave and they would be ostracized or they would come out and no one would talk about it.It was just like a, like O overall, it was very, very bad. My dad ended up passing in 2012 and I was around 16 years old. And one of my uncles, one of my dad's brothers offered to allow me to move back with him in the us, him and his wife and his family. And my SIS, one of my sisters was already living there with them [00:47:00] working.And my mom couldn't afford high school in Mexico anymore for me. And so it was just cheaper for me to come back to the us because I was a citizen here to go to school for free at a, at, at high school and finish off and hopefully go into college. If I could get scholarships or whatever. So I ended up moving my second semester of junior year and I lived with them for about a year and a half.And that was probably the most traumatic experience I've ever had. I was basically became their maid. So they wouldn't do any housework. It was all my responsibility. I didn't know how to drive and I still don't because it's very traumatic. I'm still processing it, but they signed me up in a school that was right outside the school zone so that they had the power over when I could go to school or [00:48:00]not.And I would have to beg to be taken to school every morning or oftentimes they. Restricted food and what I could consume. And if I hid food in my room or purchase anything they would find it and eat it or take it out or throw it away. It was just a lot of very traumatic things. And yeah, I, I was there for about a year and a half and I survived.And the day I left, I never looked back. I was actually kicked out a day before my graduation for high school, because they were angry that I had gotten into a four year college full tuition because at, at their house, it was very traumatic, but my, my safe Haven was school. And so I dedicated so much time into school.I had top grades. I graduated with so many honors and like top [00:49:00] 5% in my class. And I was given a full tuition scholarship to a state school in Arizona. And so they were angry that they couldn't maintain me in this system of abuse. They wanted me to go to a community college that was close by. So again, they could continue to drive me.They can continue to do all these abusive things. And I found a way out of it by going to school or going to a four year university, they were very mad. So I ended up being kicked out the day before I graduated like literally within two hours, they were like, you need to leave now. So that was a my experience there.And I'm so processing, I don't remember a lot of it because a lot of it was very like shut down, but yeah, they, they are still pastors in Arizona, so, yeah. De'Vannon: Hi.[00:50:00]Yeah. I just told her, basically. I'm sorry. You partially think , you know? Yeah. Well you got a lot. Oh, Jesus Christ. When you said family business, do you mean like the church Noemi: mm-hmm the church is a, is a family business. Once someone becomes a pastor, they'll pass a church onto their kid. De'Vannon: Yeah. I wanted to just point that out because that's, that's very much a thing.And you do see the church going from one son to the next, usually something like that. Yeah. And when I, Noemi: when I ended up leaving my family's church in like junior year of college, I went to my pastor and let 'em know that I no longer wanted to be a member of the church because it was the same church organization in Mexico as it was in the us.And I continued to attend when I came back to the us They were angry, cuz they were like, wait, people know you within the church. Like this is your last [00:51:00] name. You are basically set up like the women's ministry within the church was already building me up. Like I was already volunteering with them, going to conferences with them.They were like building me up to be one of the leaders once I got married obviously. And so for it to be me to just like leave my status behind, they were very like dumbfounded and kind of angry that I would like leave their church organization. But for me it was like, no, like I can't be in this anymore.This is very like abusive and yeah. It's it's it wasn't for me.De'Vannon: That's so that's so culty. Oh yeah. felt like you wanna go now you stay. Yeah. , I mean, I'm laughing at the absurdity of this and the fact that it's not so rare, it's not like you, it's not like this sort of thing doesn't happen. No, [00:52:00] because with media, people are now able to tell their stories with pastors have been getting away with this shit for years.Oh yeah. Possibly, ever since church ever were mm-hmm I heard you say, you talked about like questioning your sexuality and I just wanted to let you know that I did that too, you know, because of the church. And I went out and I got me girlfriends and everything, and tried to UNGA myself and it didn't work.So I just wanted to, to let you know that you're also not alone. Wondering what the church is gonna think. If you date someone of the same sex and everything like that, I rearranged my personal life because of the church of how I thought they might think and everything back in the day. Wow. And so I'm just saying that, so that, that you hear it from someone else, because I think that is very healing.I think it's very healing for you to get your story out today. I'm feeling a spirit of healing here. I don't, and I don't mean that the way the churches say, oh, there's a spirit of this and a [00:53:00] spirit of that. Like I just really feel a very cathartic thing going on here. yeah, I hate it when I say something and I sound like those fuckers still.Do you ever have that happen to you? Noemi: I do. Christian De'Vannon: Christian.And I heard what you say about, you said about the trauma that you went through and how it, your mind shut some of it off. So it's kind of like a blank space. I wanna let you know, you're not alone there too. Cause when I was homeless and everything from the time I got kicked outta Layfield, I spiraled down to, I ended up homeless on the street with HIV and hepatitis B and so oh wow.In my mind, shut off a lot of the too, it took me years to remember, you know, much of what happened. So[00:54:00]one of the things that you mentioned in the documentary, the leaving Hills song documentary, one thing that impressed you about Hillsong when you first got, there was the fact that like everyone could wear what they want. You saw diversity, you felt like it was gonna be your home mm-hmm . And I wanted to highlight this just to, to, to mark the reasons why these churches have created like.We're given a foothold in the first place. So the fact that it stood out to you, and this was the same thing. When I went to Lakewood, you know, nobody's judging me for what I'm wearing, you know, original churches, original churches, you know, more modern, recent churches made a big deal over what you wore, stuff like that the music was inconsistent or the musicians just wouldn't be there.You know, sometimes when you would go to church and stuff like that. And so, and then it wasn't diverse. You would be a bunch of white people, a bunch of black people in my experience. Mm-hmm . And so we go to these other churches. and [00:55:00] it's almost like they looked and saw, okay, this is what has pissed people off about churches up to this point.Mm-hmm this is more like a business decision. This is what the customers hate. So let's just give this to them in a different package. Yep. What do you think Noemi: that's exactly what happened within Hills song? Because when Brian Houston was leading his church in Australia he was supporting his dad.First of all, Frank Houston, the, the, the actual pedophile in this whole story He Brian Houston came to the us and started seeing what churches were doing here and took that back and decided to make church more like a business. And that's when he started changing the name. That's when the music ministry started growing more and it grew so much, they brought in a celebrity to sing with them.So they made it an actual business and, and often [00:56:00] Hillsong other churches tend to replicate what Hillsong did and they're basically replicating their business model. So yeah, mm-hmm, you're right on it. De'Vannon: Yeah. So y'all just because some preacher looks all holy in divine, you have got to, to get discernment for yourself or just some common God street sense, shit, something you can't just.They'll be like, oh God is leading us. No bitch. All you saw was that this, this business model worked across the, the waters and you just went and did it. And of course you can stand there and say, oh, it is Jesus. No, it's not the same way churches have a good kids program. I don't really think it's cuz they like the kids so damn much, but they know that the parents, kids bring the parents, the parents bring the coin.Yeah. That's, that's really why I think that that's the case. And so, I mean, sure you love kids, but if I think it's of all, about fucking money. video1376668743: I Noemi: agree when [00:57:00] my dad was when we were in Mexico, we started a small group in this small town where they were all farmers and no one liked going out there to talk with them or anything because they were all they would call them Oaxaca, which are just farmer people who were from the Southern Mexico.More lower class, no one likes that. A lot of classism colorism, my dad went and started a Bible study with them. So he asked my siblings and I, okay, who's gonna go help me with the kids. And my sisters are like, kind of like nose goes. So I was left and I was like, fine, I'll go and help. I started the kids' ministry with him.I started with about five kids and it, I was 13, 14, mind you, another kid teaching kids. And so I started doing the Bible stories that I had learned, and we would just play games the whole time. And all the other kids in the community started noticing that we were just playing, coloring, [00:58:00] playing. And so they would come for like the 10, 15 minute lesson.And then we would go out and like chase chickens and like rail in the goats and like play around in the backyard. And that started bringing the parents in. So we went from a small group within about a year and a half, a small group of about 10 people. to almost like a hundred having to then pass it on to someone else because my dad didn't wanna stay there long enough for, to establish a church, cuz he felt the need to like move on to a different location.So we ended up leaving it in the hands of someone else. And there's currently a church there now because of that small group that we started that brought people in because of the kids' ministry. So the kids bring in the people, the people bring in the money. So I completely agree with that. De'Vannon: Yeah, God damnit.I knew I was right. son of a bitch Noemi: and, and also the reason why I felt like [00:59:00] Hillsong was very diverse and. Was very welcoming and people could wear what they want was because I grew up in this environment where I wasn't allowed to wear pants. I wasn't allowed to wear makeup. I couldn't grab my hair. The typical, very fundamentalist church where the Bible is infallible.It is. Without error, you know, like all this kind of things. So very fundamentalist church. And my, my dress code went with that. I had to cover my head before walking into service, things like that. Oh Lord. Yeah. So when I left that and went to a place like Hillsong where people were in like chunk glass, or they were wearing like whatever shoes they wanted, like sandals shorts, a t-shirt makeup on or hair was cut.Like, it didn't matter what they wore that for me was very like, oh my God, I can do whatever I want. And diversity was, I felt it was there because [01:00:00] I grew up in a mono-ethnic church where it was all Latinx people, Spanish speaking church. So to go to a, a church where you can see black and brown people and majority white people.Yeah. But there was still black and brown people also there. That's where I was like, oh, this place is diverse. Because I was like, noticing the difference between majority or 99% Latinx to like probably 70% white and 30% brown and black people.De'Vannon: I say goddamn. That's just, that's just, that's all I can say. And I'm gonna say this before we begin to wrap up and I, and I thank you. I appreciate so much of your time. I heard you, when you were talking about that you considered suicide and everything like that. I'm so sorry that that happened to you.And it reminded me though, of someone on, so I'm gonna give a shout out right now to Tanya [01:01:00] Levine of the leaving Hills song podcast over there in Sydney. Tanya Levine was also. On the discovery plus documentary, I was just interviewed for her podcast too. Like last week, Matt, Matt, Matt Draper. And I did like a whole thing with Tony.And so, but there was a guy on her podcast who also tried to kill himself over some hill song fuckery. And so I just wanted to throw that out there and say, you know, churches are causing homelessness, drug addiction, suicide mm-hmm and they need to be held to account Noemi: no, I agree. Yeah. I was on her podcast as well, like a three part episode.Yeah, I, I completely agree. There's so many of us, even when I left, there's a few of my friends who I helped them get the support they needed by going to a hospital. If they needed a psychiatric evaluation, the amount [01:02:00] of people who ended up going to a psychiatric hospital are taking medication right now are in therapy, is like, I, I cannot count with one hand.It is way beyond that. And it's very frustrating and it's very, there's like this righteous anger that you have of the amount of money that we've had to put into place in order to heal from our time there. Like I was there two years and it's taken me way more than two years to be in this place now where I can speak openly without it being very triggering De'Vannon: to me.Me too. It took me a good, like 10. It took me 6, 5, 6 years after I got fired from Lakewood to walk into a church again. And then it took me probably like, you know, up until maybe like last year. So we're talking about like another, like five, seven years before I could talk about it without just getting all pissed off and angry.Noemi: Wow. I still haven't been able to go into a church. I [01:03:00] went into a church for the documentary interview and that was very triggering cuz it was the first time I stepped in. So the producers and the director realized that. And so we were kind of like going very slowly until I felt very comfortable shit talking another church inside of another church.De'Vannon: I'm here for all of that shit. Yeah. because you know, we go to these churches and it's like, you're falling in love with someone you become bonded and connected and you have a soul tie. It's like a marriage and you just feel like you can trust it. You know, it's so engrafting and emotional and the reasons why we feel like we need churches as a whole other conversation, but nevertheless, many of us find ourselves there.And to have that relationship severed is I think it was O R one of those good bands said, you know, when a heart breaks, it don't break even, you know? Yeah. You know, we're all shattered and torn. And [01:04:00] roaming and lost, and the church is going on making more money. They're writing more books, writing more music, you got your Darlene checks and your Cindy Cruz rat cliffs, flying all over your Israel, Hiltons and everything, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.And everything's all great and wonderful. And you got your Joes and your Bryans, and everything's all great. But under the surface, these people are built their success. These worship leaders, these pastors have built their success on the backs of people like us, who they have broken and shattered and discarded, and didn't even turn around and go and see what happened to us.Yeah, that's true. And you know, the Bible speaks about how God will enter into judgment with these pastors who don't go and look for that one. So they all have their day coming. You've been successful now, a bitch, but you just wait mm-hmm so you have a website that I want to tell everyone about, and it is your link tree.Now I'm gonna put all this in [01:05:00] the showy notes. Okay. But it is link tree, you know, they spell it kind of funny. It's like L I N KTR dot E E slash N OE, M IM I dot U. Your Twitter is at N OE IM IU. And this is totally gonna go in the show notes. You have a totally and kick ass link tree. You've got LGBTQ affirming resources, mental health pronouns matter.And then you also have in Spanish, too record to And so I appreciate other resources that you have there. And so the last two things that I wanna ask you just pulling from like your passion for your resources is just what, what is the difference? What does a side B side mean? Noemi: So before I answer that one the reason why this [01:06:00] link tree happened was because, okay, so many people were reaching out to ask me for resources or asking me questions or a direct asking me to direct them into other podcasts books plethora of things.And I did not have the time to like be sending everything every time I was basically copying and pasting the same list to people. So it got to the point where I was like, I should just put something together. It's gonna take me a little bit longer, but in the long run, I can just direct them to the link of my bio.And they started mainly on Instagram. And it's the same username, N O E M IMI dot U. And the, the same link is in there as well. And so people could go in and, and see the resources. The two that I created, or the one that I created was more affirming resources for LGBTQ people. The one for mental health.[01:07:00] I started finding different resources from different websites, from like the Trevor project to just like general like mental health websites that we're offering lists of things. So I put that all together. And then the pronouns matters. I included that because people were asking me questions about my pronouns.Why am I using two different types of pronouns? And so I was like, oh, that's a great question. So I would have the conversation. And then I would be like, if you wanna learn more, you can go to this link in my bio. And there's a, a link there that will redirect you to talk about it. And the anti-racist resources in Spanish.I included that because. As a Latinx community, which is what I am a part of, we often don't talk about our anti-blackness and there is a lot of anti-blackness within our community. And so I wanted to start a conversation and a lot of people wanted to understand a bit more where there was friends of mine who were saying, I don't know how to [01:08:00] talk about this with my family, because it's clearly there.So I would direct them to this link. And I've also used the resources within it to have the conversations with my family. So we can now be more open about things like black lives matter understand why people like George Floyd died and why they were like killed in the hands of like the police and other folks.So that's part of why all of these resources are in there. Your second question around side a inside B, when I was learning more about queer theology, I. Started to learn about these two sides. Because I went to lunch with a group of Hillsong people and I was sitting at a table and all of a sudden, I don't know how the conversation sparked, but I turned to the [01:09:00] person next to me and he was like, oh my God, I'm queer.And I was like, oh my God, me too. And so we started having more conversations and he's like, what side are you? And I was like, what are you, what are you talking about? I don't know what you're talking about. And so then he started explaining to me the two sides. So basically side a is that you are fur, wholly affirming that you don't believe that being LGBTQ is a sin at all.That it's not included in any of the sins in the Bible that you are fully affirmed by God that God may do this way, that you are who you are and you are queer, fully and wonderfully made. And. To quote unquote and I hate using these words acting upon it is also okay. So to be who you are fully is, is good because you were created good.You are a good creation of God. So that's side a side. B is yes, this is who you [01:10:00] are. This is who you you have same sex attraction, and I'm using a lot of trigger words probably for you. But this is what side B is that you have attract attractions to people with the same sex and. That's okay.But if you act upon it and are in a relationship with someone or are more openly queer meaning that like you go to things like pride or you become you, you are in a relationship with someone, then that's the bad side of it. And you shouldn't do that, that you should be celibate that you should like be more compressing it down.And that is your cross to bear for the rest of your life. That I don't agree with. But if that is you I'm more than welcome to have a conversation around why I believe that is not a good side, but if that's you, you know, go forward and, and be yeah, De'Vannon: besides [01:11:00] sounds like the dark side of the forest, Noemi: it is for me, it is, that's what I.De'Vannon: No, we don't want that. And I'm, I'm so sorry to hear. Thank you for explaining that. Cuz I had never heard of that until I met you. Is the, the, the whole. You know, Hispanic people against black people is something I witnessed when I was a recruiter in Southern California, back in the early two thousands.And the high schools, we had like black, Hispanic wars and stuff. And I'm like, y'all really gonna sit here and let these white people watch the brown people destroy each other. Exactly. Come on. Noemi: Like we were

INTRODUCTION: Barry Bowen is the Staff Investigator at Trinity Foundation, a nonprofit organization that investigates religious fraud, theft and excess. From 2005 to 2010 Bowen served as one of the third-party whistleblowers assisting the U.S. Senate in its investigation of six TV ministries. INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to): ·      Mega Church Deception·      Money Mismanagement ·      Church Hypocrisy·      The Need For Church Accountability ·      Lakewood Church·      Hillsong Church ·      PPP Loan Abuse·      Shell Company Defined·      How Churches Take Advantage Of The LLC Business Structure·      How Churches Have Become MarketplacesCONNECT WITH BARRY: Website: https://trinityfi.orgTwitter: https://twitter.com/barrybowen CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonEmail: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: ·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o  https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o  TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs ·      Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)o  https://press.discoveryplus.com/lifestyle/discovery-announces-key-participants-featured-in-upcoming-expose-of-the-hillsong-church-controversy-hillsong-a-megachurch-exposed/ ·      Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levino  https://leavinghillsong.podbean.com ·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: ·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon  TRANSCRIPT: [00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: Hello? Hello. Hello everyone. And welcome back to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. God bless you. Uh, now y'all, I'm going, been watching this documentary called Hillsong a mega church exposed on the discovery plus channel in bitch. If you haven't seen. I'm telling you right now, I am letting you know, you need this fucking P in your life.I was able to land an interview with someone from that documentary. And he's my guest today. His name was Barry Bowen and he is a staff investigator at the Trinity foundation, [00:01:00] which is a non-profit, which investigates religious fraud, theft, and excess, and things like that. Now, in this episode, we're spelling some major T on Lakewood church, Hillsong church. And the general corruption, which has become the face of the church today. Ultimately these churches need to be more fucking accountable in Barry and I are here to help make that happen. Hello? Hello. Hello everyone. And welcome to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. I am your host Avanan and I have with me today, a man by the name of Barry Barry Bowen. He's a staff private investigator at Trinity foundation. And then this episode here is is going to have a very, very, maybe I should say ominous vibe to it because we've got to really be digging down into some megachurch, Phil uncovering a few things, and you know, we're opening your eyes [00:02:00] to some facts that you may not know.Now you gotta make your own draw your own conclusions and everything like that. Our aim here is to share knowledge with the world. So, Barry, how are you doing? Barry: I am doing well and ready to have a busy weekend though. De'Vannon: Mm hallelujah. Tabernacle and praise. I know that's right. And so, so right off the bat, I just want to tell everyone the website is Trinity fii.org.As always, this will go in the showy notes as I always do. I want to put that out there right now, because everyone's going to need to go to this website. I need you to go to this website. My head was fucking hurting. It was like split down the middle. Like I had been cracked in the noggin with an ax or some shit as I was reading through.The articles tab, which is where Barry's work is and all of these different, just different [00:03:00]investigative journalism. This man has done over the years and years and years. And so we're going to be uncovering a lot of things. You're coming from a 15 year history in journalism. Tell us about your background.Barry: And 2000 I started a website, Christian headlines.com. It was sorta like the Matt Drudge, the Drudge report of Christianity. Every day, I would look for articles of interest to Christians and link to them. So in the course of doing that website, I started coming across regularly articles about bad pastors people in the church committing crimes.And I knew about Trinity foundation, a watchdog organization, and started emailing them tips, news articles that I was coming across and. Eventually I reached a breaking point. One night I was flipping through the TV channels and I came across a televangelist named [00:04:00] Mike Murdoch and he was doing the standard beg of Bon or just begging for money.And he said, so EST on your credit card, and God will erase your credit card debt. I wanted to jump through the TV set and hit the guy. I did not the TV survived, but I, when that incident happened, I thought I am going to take you down. And so I started investigating the televangelists more. I would.I found out about nine nineties. These are financial documents. That nonprofits file. Now churches, synagogues, mosques are exempt from filing, but other religious organizations are required to file them. So I started digging into these kinds of financial documents eventually starting to incorporation searches to learn about who makes the key decisions in the organizations and how they [00:05:00] hide their assets.Then I learned eventually how to track their aircraft. So it's been a interesting ride. And 2005, I read an article about being Derby. He was a congressional investigator. He was the attorney that council's counsel for the Senate finance. Senate finance committee, which at the time was headed up by Senator Charles Grassley.And in this article, it talked about that Dean's RB was investigating half a dozen, half a dozen non-profits for fraud. And I was thinking, this guy shouldn't investigate the televangelists. So I, and I contacted TriNet foundation. The president at the time was only Anthony. And it's like only you need to contact this guy, send them to him, send them your Binny Han brief.So just a couple months earlier Treme foundation had challenged Benny him, the [00:06:00]televangelist, his tax exempt status do dumpster diving. They go through the trash. They found out that the IRS was questioning whether or not Benny Hinn ministry should be considered a church and a. So TriNet foundation did this report to the S to the IRS.And so it was sent that report was sent to Dean Serby, this investigator that worked for Senator Grassley and he looked at the email and he looked at the report and he told us that they would need to wrap up the current investigations before the Senate could investigate these religious non-profits.So that was 2005 November, 2007. It became matter of public knowledge. One night I think maybe two in the morning on the Senate finance committee, [00:07:00] they sent out faxes to six TV ministries, demanding their financial records. And those ministries were Benny and. Kenneth Copeland Creflo dollar Eddie long Joyce Meyer and polo white.And it was a maybe a circus the next day. When the news media found out about the Senate inquiry so Grassley was interested in, in non-profit organizations were abusing their tax exempt status. He started investigating nonprofits in 2001, and this all happened because of September 11th.The terrorist attack on the twin towers. When [00:08:00] that incident happened the American red cross set up, I believe they call it the victory fund and hundreds of millions of dollars were donated nationwide to go to the families of the victims. Well, the American red cross decided to divert some of those funds.And when that was discovered, when that was reported in the news, it led to state attorney General's investigating. It led to Congress investigating the president of American red cross resigned. It really hurt the reputation of the organization. What a lot of people don't know is when you give to a specific cause specific purpose, those are called restricted donations.And if the money is spent other than how the donor intended it can be fraud. Now it's IRS. Typically doesn't investigate this. Normally be a state attorney general that does. It could even be a [00:09:00]local district attorney, but generally they don't investigate these things. So in churches, when people grew up in churches, they'll often remember those old offering envelopes and you could check mark on it.If the money was go, you want to give to the church building fund or to missions different purposes. So if that money wasn't spent the way the donor intended that's possible fraud. And so Grassley his staff, they started to investigate, oh, 2006, there was elections. And the Democrats took control of the Senate.Grassley went from being the chairman of the Senate finance committee to being the ranking minority member. So then in 2007, 2008, Was the housing bubble burst? Well, there was bank [00:10:00]bailouts we had, how do you pay for it? That goes to the Senate finance committee, 2009, president Barack Obama and the Democrats pushed through Obamacare.Well, how are you going to pay for it? That goes to the Senate finance committee again. So this inquiry was sort of on the back burner for a long, long time. It did not turn out the way we wanted it to. When I suggested the Senate investigate, I was hoping that there would be hearings in the 1950s and in the 1960s, there were two big congressional hearings into organized crime.Some of these mafia bosses were subpoenaed to testify before Congress, and you can watch some of the old videos on YouTube. They recorded on film back in the day, but that is what we were hoping. We were hoping to bring exposure. What happens is when these televangelists [00:11:00] often people around them don't want to go public.So you don't find out certain details until they reach the courtroom when somebody is under oath. And so we thought by forcing televangelists to testify, we could, they could be grilled with the right questions. And and so they could be like asked did the church pay for your cosmetic surgery?When you flew the jet on this date to The Bahamas that was that for a personal vacation? Did you reimburse the church for use of that jet? I mean, these were the kinds of things that we wanted to bring into the public, but there were ended up being no hearings, but in the meantime, I did property searches, corporation searches of these ministries.And we forward that information to the us Senate. One of the things [00:12:00] that we discovered was a number of these people were operating businesses from inside their churches. Paula white had a company, Paula white enterprises, and that physical address was her church. So is her business paying the church rent for use of the facility?These are the kinds of question that an investigator would ask. And a lot of people don't know this, but churches are required to pay taxes on certain unrelated business income. So if a church is doing something like they have a facility that they're renting out it could be taxable income. Now the laws are weird.There are loopholes. If a building is paid off and you rent it out, It's not taxable. If you are paying or paying a note on a building and you rent it out, then it's taxable. It's [00:13:00] backwards in my opinion. But there's a form that nonprofits and churches are required to file for this kind of revenue.And it's called a nine 90 T and it discloses unrelated business income. We concluded that could have been the smoking gun that could have brought down a number of televangelists, that there are having revenue that they're not reporting. That is not taxed. There's a really gigantic story. I cannot disclose right now, but it's the investigations into this key issue and it involves hundreds of millions of dollars.De'Vannon: Now, before we thank you for that, for that rundown. And I love. I don't know, man. I love what you're doing. That the revelation of this is so heavy though, because as I was reading through your site and everything and listening to, I also want to give a a shout [00:14:00] out to our girl, Tanya Levine, down there in Australia.She's in Sydney, Australia, and she has a podcast called leaving hill song. I discovered her on the discovery plus channel documentary. It's like Hillsong exposed or something like that. It's called it's a three-part documentary. And Tanya Levine was being interviewed in the documentary. She's the author of a book, I think it's called leaving Hillsong two or something like that.And and she has a podcast called leaving heels, a song, and Barry did a three-part interview with Tanya on there. So that's how I discovered Barry. And so in Hillsong church is going through all of this drama and stuff right now. But the information is like so heavy, you know, it really, really pains me that people go to churches for inspiration and to be inspired.And, you know, we put all this trust in these preachers, any, and so many times it's like, it's not, they don't, they didn't turn out to be who we [00:15:00] thought they are, but, you know, but when I think about it, as I'm listening to you speak Joyce Meyer, proximal dollar, why would I assume that there wouldn't be money mismanagement?You didn't say that there is, but I'm like w we, we just afford a certain level of trust of these people because we believe they're supposed to be, we haven't looked into the books. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes. We just assume because they are a preacher that they're doing shit. Right.And that's not necessarily the case. Barry: Well, in the case of the six TV ministries that the Senate tried to investigate none of them filed a form 990 and this financial disclosure document. You can obtain them at websites like GuideStar pro-public as a nonprofit search page and other places these [00:16:00] documents are a matter of public record.So a donor to one of these organizations can look and see where the money's going. And they, I believe in and donor responsibility. I believe that donors that regularly give to an organization, they should check it out, make sure that money's being properly spent. I mean, I understand that you're giving $20 a one-time donation or organization.You don't have to do a lot of research into it, but if you're like giving to a church for a year after year after year and involves thousands of dollars, you really should check them. So these, these nine nineties on the very first page, it includes total revenue, total expenses it'll report. If they have unrelated business income at a report, the number of total number of board members and it'll report the total number of independent board members.And that's really critical. Oh, wait, [00:17:00] one more thing. There's a couple of different kinds of nine nineties. There's a nine 90 N, which is called a postcard nine 90 for organizations that have only a small amount of revenue. I forget the amount, if it's 50,000 or a hundred thousand dollars or less, that you, you could file the, the postcard nine 90, then there's a nine 90 easy.I think it's up to $250,000 revenue, but I have to verify that you, you can file a nine 90 Z and then of course, the nine 90 regular nine 90. So we look at those documents in the nine 90 also includes a statement of revenue page. So it explains what were the revenues coming from? Is it from like general contributions?Is it from a related organization? Things like that investment income, rental income there is a statement of expenses page. So it'll it'll list things like legal [00:18:00] expenses. So if you see a large amount of legal expenses, you know, that the organization may be going through litigation, maybe they're suing someone or they're fighting a lawsuit.Then there is travel expenses, if that's really high and they may have. So those are some of the things that stand out on, I think it's page four. It there's a, a yes or no question if the organization has foreign bank or financial accounts. And then if they answer yes, the line below they list what country it's in, and sometimes they'll use a country code, or sometimes I'll write out the country.So if you see Cayman islands, right, there's like a red flag. Are they involved in off shore money laundering? Those kinds of questions come up occasionally. But some of the things I look for it lists related organizations that again, that those [00:19:00] money can be moved back and forth through relater organizations, shell companies, limited liability companies.And so you mentioned the whole song podcast. One of the things that I investigated heal song was their use of limited liability companies. De'Vannon: Wait, wait, sorry to cut you off with that. We want it to I did mention the LLC and I do want to get, get to that, but I want to touch on Lakewood church first because that's like like what is like a pet peeve of mine and everything like that.I love your passion for what you're doing and I can see why. I can see why you have like a jewel in your eyes and your voice and everything. And, you know I'm happy you came across the whole Murdoch thing all those years ago that sets you on this course because who knew that such a time, like this would come where we have all of this [00:20:00] church fuckery happening.So we're going to, we are going to get on Hillsong in just a second, but I wanted to just start with Lakewood church first, because this is near and dear to my heart because I talk about. Quite often in extensively in my memoir about how I used to be a big volunteer there. Then I was dismissed fired from volunteering because I'm not straight.And so this interview is not really focusing on the way Lakewood dehumanizes people behind the scenes and stuff like that. This is to, this is more like a a financially corrupt based show, what we're talking about today. But I liked to talk about Lakewood in this aspect. I really want to start with them because a lot of churches of various sizes look to Lakewood since they're the largest church in the country.So when I've attended other churches before the preachers would always talk about Joel Olsteen and how they want to be like. And so the things that he's doing, there are [00:21:00] things that other churches will mimic. You know, if you go to different churches, they'll notice a practice at church X churches, each church, Jay, and then they'll incorporate it into their own corporation.And so so I really wanted to kind of dissect some of the things about Lakewood before we get into Hillsong. And I think it's a very cute correlation because, you know, Joel and Brian Houston, Brian Houston, the whale, I kind of the pastor hill song, he had to step down. There's a whole scandal going on over there.You know, they were always good buddies, you know they would send Darlene check the worship leader from Hillsong over the Lakewood. And then they within the Cindy Cruz red cliff, the worship leader at Lakewood over to Hillsong and then Joel and Brian, I think I saw them on a telecast together. So they're all buddy, buddy and shit.And so. So I wanted to start with Lakewood and segue with the Hillsong because of the way they liked to hold those two churches, like the whole hands and go skipping down the Lilly brushes and everything like that while they run over people [00:22:00] along the way. And so so in, so, so Lakewood, the way they let's talk about that, the way they filed their, their board of directors.So many churches have this whole thing that, you know, you would think, how shall I say you would think that there's a whole like, okay. So when I was a member of the university Presbyterian church here in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, over at LSU, it was the most transparent church have ever been to. You can see where all the money's going.They have this thing called the session that votes on things. And then when it's major decisions, actually the whole congregation can get together and vote. And this is not the case in these large churches. Their filings read things like the corporations you'll have no members in the case of Lakewood.So just to talk about fat. So they originally were [00:23:00] incorporated in 1959, I believe it was. So just bring this up to present and talk about this whole, the way these boards are, or, and then let's get very granular with how it is currently at Lakewood.Barry: Like you said the church was Lakewood church was founded in 1959.It was originally a Southern Methodist church. And eventually they amended their articles of incorporation so that the church became an independent nondenominational church. They changed the name of it. I forget what the original name was eventually and. 2006. When they amended the articles of incorporation, it included this language.This is amendment or article number two, the corporation hereby elects to have a sole member for the limited purposes and with only the [00:24:00] duties, right. And powers set out in the corporation's bylaws in the ordinary course of business, any action that would otherwise require a vote of members requires only a vote of the board of directors and no meeting or vote of members is required all rights that otherwise would vest in the members vest and the direct and the directors.So there's different forms of church governance. Originally it seems, it looks like the church had maybe A congregational model where the members would vote, vote on how the money was spent. I would have to go back and look at the original articles of corporation to verify that, but that was a typically how most Southern Baptist churches were started, were congregational.Some churches are hierarchal, like for example, the Catholic church, you have a Pope [00:25:00] then archbishops then bishops blow them. And so the decisions are made top down. But started with one person. Sometimes there's organizations where one person makes all decisions and that's called a corporation sole.There is he'll when not Hillsong. There is this approach that Lakewood church takes. I like to call it the board of directors model. They. Has specific people that make the key decisions. And in this case, they are almost all family members. The one exception at Lakewood church is the treasurer.Noel Keller is the only non O'Steen family member. That's on the board of directors. And this is a really critical issue. For example just say that the board of [00:26:00] directors were to vote on the salaries, approving the salaries of the people on the board. You don't have any independent board members, so you would have possibly a family member voting on someone else's pay.I mean, Lisa, Lisa comes as Joel Osteen's sister, her and her husband are on the board. Joel and Victoria are on the board. And then Noel killer. So on a nine 90 form for, to get churches are not required to file these, but on a 990, I think it's schedule J or the schedule right after that. There's this place where it indicates how the compensation is decided for key people.And it you'll look in to see if there's a box check mark for independent [00:27:00] compensation committee, a compensation consultant. So in some of the large churches a person can legally get paid a lot of money. If you bring in a compensation consultant, they perform a study. They the board reviews their study.Then the person that's going to be voted on leaves the room. And then they vote on that person's compensation and report it and the recording and the board notes. That's how to legally get paid a huge amount of money at a nonprofit, not just churches, but all nonprofits. The IRS has really shot themselves in the foot by not properly defining excessive compensation years ago, the NFL was a nonprofit organization and Roger Goodell you know, however you pronounce his name.He was paid like over $30 million a year. And as a nonprofit, that's just insane. [00:28:00] But and he was able to do that because they would compare his compensation with that other CEOs, other not non-profits. So you know, like what church church is governance model. You have this family. And who is going to hold the family responsible.That is why it's very critical to have an independent board of directors. De'Vannon: You know, when you, when you mentioned how the, how the salaries that the church has mimic that of the secular world, it just, it really strikes a bitter chord within me because it's, it just echoes back to how, when it's convenient, the church wants to be like the world with.When they want to [00:29:00] cast judgment, then it's not okay to be like the world. So we don't want you to drink alcohol or do drugs or fuck outside of marriage because that's what they do over in the world. But I'll take that, that, that that I've seen salary, you know, like they have over in the world because, you know, we need a model to go by.Right. So might as well pull it from the world. And so, and so, yeah, you can tell this really pisses me off because you know, we sat there and we'd give all this money to these churches and, you know, just blindly, but we don't have any control or any power over what the fuck happens and why, why would anybody knowingly want to do that?And this is different. Okay. So like if you're working for somebody at a job. They're paying you to be there. Okay. In exchange for your time, that company has a board of directors and they don't give a fuck about what you think either, unless you have stock in the company and then they may not [00:30:00] ask you them, but at least you going to church, you're not being paid to come there.You're paying them in the decision that they make affect so much stuff. So here in the case of Lakewood, you've got Joe Victoria, Kevin, I think Paul's brother might be on the, on the damn board to making all the decisions. Okay. In the way the language is written, they're not, they don't give a fuck about what any of the members have to say.They want all the members to come there and the people around the world to send money. And then this, this group of five or whatever are going to make all the decisions and just, just the end of it. And then your opinion doesn't matter. So it's left up to the people to decide whether this is the sort of thing that they're okay with.We're not necessarily whether it's good or bad, it's up to you. But I didn't know this. When I was a member of Lakewood church, I did notice that they would make decisions like they would send, say like Paul, cause he's a doctor medical [00:31:00] doctor on missions trips to Africa, say with his family. And I would be thinking, well, I would have loved to have gone on that missions trip.No one asked me if I could go. It was just the thing that was decided. Nobody said, Hey members, is it okay if we spend church funds to send him and his family on this missions trip, it was just done. And so, and that's just the way it is. And a lot of these churches, like you give us the money because we're holy and we hear from heaven and everything like that better than you do.And then we're going to make all of these decisions. I was once. Okay. With that. There's no way I would be okay with that again. Barry: Yes, maybe either. My dad was a Baptist minister, so I grew up in the church and the church that I attended it was a congregational governance model. One Wednesday night, a month, there'd be a church business meeting.And there'll be a church financial statement. So you can see where the, how much money came in and where it was spent. [00:32:00] And members would vote each year to approve the budget. My dad's salary was disclosed to the public. No, my dad was uncomfortable with that, but he knew that the church needed to be transparent.And my dad was not getting rich from being a minister in a church, but a lot of people you don't, when you read the Bible, you don't necessarily see a congregation. Governance model. So you have some people say this is not biblical as if just because something may not be listed in the Bible doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong.So I think God can work through all kinds of different governance models, but I I'm convinced that you need transparency and accountability. And if you lack neither, you're creating an environment where [00:33:00] fraud can abound, De'Vannon: right? So let me take this further with Lakewood. So in your, on your website, you have an article it's called million dollar homes, become status symbols of televangelists and past.So on the one hand and you get very granular, you show 'em like satellite imagery of people's houses. You have Joel and Victoria's house in there. You have a couple of other ministers house on there and you say how much it's worth, you know, so on and so forth. Now, in the case of Joe, you know, you also mentioned that they have another house in California.I found that interesting that you, you, you, you had to use an informant to find this information out. I don't know why it would be such clandestine information. Why do you think he wouldn't want people to know? He has another million dollar home somewhere? Barry: People have multiple reasons for hiding their [00:34:00] address.So in the state of Texas Texas has higher property taxes than a lot of states. I believe because Texas does not have a a state income tax. But in the state of Texas each county has a, what's called a an appraisal district. So in Houston, Houston is in Harris county. So you can go to that website, Harris county, appraisal district, and you can put in a person's name or the name of a business, and you can look up their property.In the case of people who are celebrities, people that have had death threats a lot of politicians have their information redacted, so you can't find them by searching my name. Okay. So there are other methods you have to use [00:35:00] to find their address. I'm not going to go into all that. So I don't want to clue in the televangelists to some of our investigative techniques, but so.And Harris county. There is a property that, where Joel Osteen owns it. There's another one there that I'm not sure if he owns it or not. We didn't go too into detail and our article, but there's a house. And again, I don't know who lives there. It may be a sister. It may be his mom. I don't know if he owns it and runs it out there.I think he has another house, but I'm not certain about it. But they were previously in shell companies. They registered them there and this is a way of trying to have more privacy. I get that there are certain people that [00:36:00] don't want people driving by their house trying to find them they want privacy.I get that. But It can be a technique use for more sinister purposes and we'll get that to that later. I'm. Sure. So we had an informant tell us that Joel had a house in California, and once we found out that, and we knew that it was not far from the Pacific ocean, I was on a tear. I was going through realtor websites, looking at recently sold houses that were expensive.Try and find our, this is a gated community who bought it or was it a registered to a shell company? Oh, it was just crazy, but we did not have the right time period. He had lived in a house longer than we suspected, so I missed it in my research [00:37:00] eventually an informant, let us know where it was, but The house.There was a real estate website that estimated it to be worth 5 million. But should a pastor live in these kinds of expensive homes and expenses? The mansion's, there's a Bible verse where Jesus said not to lay up treasures for yourselves here on earth, but to store that up in heaven. And when you've got a televangelist, maybe spending over $10 million on a couple of homes, he maybe could have spent that money a lot more frugally and helped people with it.I think televangelists that are acquiring massive wealth are being disobedient descriptive. One of the [00:38:00] craziest cases I've investigated is that a guy named David Sarillo, he is president of the inspirational network many years ago, that was PTL, which was a TV network that Jim baker started after Jim baker scandals.It changed which ownership, but David Cirillo and 12 years was compensated $41 million. Yeah. Inspirational network is a non-profit organization. And so I would love to say the IRS revoked the tax exempt status of his organization. I really would. I'm hoping that one day they do De'Vannon: so I don't. So I hear what you're saying about how you don't feel like creatures.Have a lot of money. I, I kind of agree with it. I kind of don't. So like [00:39:00] if they, if they take it like a salary from the church, I think I agree with you. Like what you're saying. If they make their money separately, like Joel and Victoria sing too, if they want to go buy expensive shit. I don't feel like that it is for me to control what they spend their money on.But a lot of people agree with your perspective though, because the optics of it looks, it looks bad to a lot of people. They just, a lot of people just can not get past the fact that the preacher lives, that sort of lifestyle in there seeing, you know, rubbing elbows with celebrities and stars and everything like that.It's like, okay, what is the difference? So I don't think you're wrong for thinking that way, but you know, but speaking of speaking of optics though, and I do want to remind people just how much church, a lot, like Lakewood is a family business, you know, When I was there filming my docu-series and everything like that, which is about to come up on my website Texas roads and jesus.com, that [00:40:00] website I noticed that night, they now have pictures of like Joel and Victoria and their children, you know, Jonathan, you know, you know, plastered all over the, all over the building inside, you know, just reminding you in my opinion of whose fucking house it is, you know, and everything like that.And so I get, it's a generational thing you had, I think it was John O'Steen who handed the reigns to Joel and clearly they intended the handed to, to, to, to Joe's son, the Jonathan I'm like, okay, It just, it just hit me. So like, like a slap in the face though. I'm like, okay. So when they stand on the stage, they're like, okay, you are Lakewood.They had the same going for awhile. Hashtag I am Lakewood, many companies do that. I am Verizon. I am the gap, whatever you want to say to the mindfuck people to make, make them feel like they are part of your organization when really they're kind of not because they're bankrolling your organization. You know, I am the gap blow.You're saying that because you want [00:41:00] me to keep paying and buying your clothes. And so so how am I part of the Lakewood family, if I'm paying money in ties and offerings, but you only got five family members making all the damn decisions, you know, I'm a part of the family, but my opinion doesn't count.And again, this isn't just Lakewood. You have a lot of churches, you know, run this way. This here is just like probably the highest example in the land. So speaking of optics though, I wanted to touch on their whole PPP loan. Thing scandal issues that they had. Because when I heard that, that really, really, really pissed me off because I believe that just because you can doesn't mean you should, and God knows our government is fucking corrupt.So the government allowed churches that do not pay taxes to get money because of the coronavirus. My thing was, you don't have any money invested [00:42:00] into the tax pot because you don't fucking pay taxes. That's the one, secondly, all of y'all are rich enough. And I think the loan was still like five, four or five, 6 million.I'm all like y'all got this money. You are not broke even if, even if Joel inventory or somebody, if it wasn't me. And I was. To avoid the appearance of evil. Like the Bible says I would not have taken money from the government. If I was the leader of a church, when I already could have covered that personally, just to not risk turning people away from Christ, somebody may have been discouraged in their faith because the richest church in the country took a loan from the government.When you had small businesses, like I have small businesses that couldn't get a fucking PPP loan and needed it. Yet. You have a church where you have millionaires, who could have bankrolled that who chose not to talk about that. Barry: [00:43:00] And early 20, 20, I think it was February or March. The national lockdown happened for a couple of weeks.And then after that various cities and states started also doing some lock Downing themselves. So the paycheck protection program PPP that was designed so that small businesses and nonprofits could maintain so they could retain their employees. That was the key idea behind, behind the paycheck protection program.And after it was instituted, it was a failure in how it was set up. There was not proper screening. There's been a massive amount of fraud in the program, and these were forgivable loans. So w or had the potential to be forgiven. So the S the small [00:44:00] business administration working with a bunch of financial institutions provided these loans.The churches and ministries would follow an application. And in my own research that basically there were two A lot of them got loans in 2020 and 2021. So over a hundred million dollars ended up going to churches with broadcast ministries things like that. So Lakewood, they got alone.And then because of the bad media coverage, they paid it back. And they were not the only one when journalists filed a foyer request. That means freedom of information act when they filed those to get the list of recipients [00:45:00] then it became. And so you could go to I think it was a small business administration website to look them up.Then ProPublica created a PPP search page, which you could find it with a search engine and you could type in names of ministries at your hearing office and see if they got money. So we've got a trade foundation. We got contacted by insight edition. Because some journalists were looking at religious organizations and they're curious about televangelists getting them well, when the, when I found out that that we could search the list of PPP recipients, I went wild on those searches.I did probably 200 searches in a one week. And so we, we found out that word of God fellowship. That's that business name for Daystar television network. They got it. Well, what's crazy about it [00:46:00] was right after they got their PPP loan. They purchased a jet. So I'm inside edition. Want to do an expo say on that.And they contacted they star Marcus lamb for an interview and he declined. So then they knew they're going to get him. It would be a hostile interview, unwanted. So a stakeout interview. So we'd try to find out when and where he would be. And so that involves surveillance. Oh yes. But investigate them times.So we found out that he was going to be at a golf course. They had a golf tournament, Daystar golf tournament. So they stars camera crew. They were the producer, Lisa Guerrero. And the camera may, we're all in this van. And my boss and I were in other cars uh, monitoring friend Marcus would drive up to the golf course.And we missed him. He was in a black [00:47:00] sports car when normally he wasn't in that vehicle. And so we did not catch him. They saw him when he got out of the vehicle in the parking lot, they ran over, pulled out their camera and she got her interview estimate a couple of questions before he entered the country club.And so that was fun doing that exposition, the investigation, De'Vannon: oh my God, Jesus Christ. video1491811222: As De'Vannon: I pray for people who are confused religiously, who've looked at all of these things happen and I pray that they find it's like spiritual peace because it's very, very upsetting the people to. Now you and I are on the same page.I love me some good investigative journalism. You know, let's find the damn scandal in in [00:48:00]everything like that. Let's find the damn scandal let's get after and let's dig into it. But there are people who are really like, like I was angry, say over like what Lakewood did with, there are people who were probably like devastated and broken hearted and probably crying somewhere because they're idle, you know, Joel Olsteen, you know, you know, allow something like this to happen.You know, I preach a lot of spiritual independence. I want people to be able to go to God for themselves, whether without a church, you know, and to put pastors in their place, which is beneath the God, do you know? Which sometimes a lot of times we'll make idols out of pastors before we realize it.So So, so, so, so my heart, you know, in my soul and my, and my love and love really goes out to people who feel confused and heartbroken. And like, they may not want to believe in God because of what these people have done. But remember Joe, you know, Marcus lamb over at bay [00:49:00] star, you know, and everybody in Joni lamb and everybody, and, you know, Brian Houston and everybody, these are just people y'all and like people, they gonna fuck up.Now, what you're not going to get from most preachers is an apology or an admission of guilt. Most of them do not tend to do that. That's just the way they are. And so, but remember they are human. They are not the Lord and whatever it is that they do, they did that. Every word that comes out of their mouth is not going to be divided.So you got to learn how to go to God for yourself and remember that no matter what these people do, don't let that shake up your faith. Like don't, don't, don't let them cause you to miss heaven and a peaceful life. So don't be like, well, God, I'm not gonna fuck with you because of what Joel did or what, because Creflo dollar did they stole from the church out?Could they, you know, I did that when I got kicked out of Lakewood for not being straight and it took me five or six years before I was reconciled to God because I was not, I wasn't spiritually mature and I don't want to see anybody else [00:50:00] fall into having a gap in their spiritual life because of what a church did now, before we get into Hillsong, which is next, I want you to just tell people what a shell corporation is.Barry: Shell company is a company to it may not have any business purpose. It's just to hold an asset. So in the case of some of these televangelists we investigate, they will have a shell company that owns a jet. And so if you type in, if you go to the FAA flight registry, that's the federal aviation administration, there's a search page and you can type in the names of churches and ministries.And if you were to type in world air H E I R you'll find, I believe [00:51:00] two jets and that company is headed up by Creflo dollar. So he has two aircraft and a shell company.De'Vannon: So why not put those aircraft? I hear it, you know, under the church's name because, so are they his, or they belong to the church? Barry: I am not clear on it. Some cases the church or ministry can own the, the shell company. It can be a related entity and typically in a 990, they will list related organizations at the very end.But again, if a church is not disclosing and as a shell company, you wouldn't know about it years ago, ed young, Jr. He is the pastor of fellowship church in grapevine, Texas. His [00:52:00] he had a jet registered to a shell company and I don't even remember the name of it. It was a really obscure name. It's not something that you'd think of and just type in a search engine from what I remember.But so I mean, some of them, they don't want their donors to know that they live extravagantly, that they have a jet. That's just something. If the members know it, they may not be as inclined to get. De'Vannon: Well, I'm thankful for your website, because as I said, at the beginning of this interview, we have our opinions, but what I want the world to do is to make your own opinion.You know, you've got to do your own research, pray about it and see, and stop going to these churches. Does it giving them blind trust? No matter how cute they are, how flashy the worship is, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If that let them hit. And the ties you, you know, and do your research and have your head in the game.So he'll song that is going to be the last thing we're going to talk about during this interview. We're going to have to [00:53:00] have you back on again. I love how the conversation has gone. I love how so full of knowledge you are and how that sparked his lights up in you. I believe Sarah, you are assuming you identify, you know, Sri.I hate to, I don't like to use a lot of servers and ma'am sometimes they slip out, but you know, I feel like you are. Doing exactly what you were put on this earth to do like your energy, you feel perfectly centered, balanced, and aligned. And would you agree? Barry: There's a verse in Ephesians that I'm going to paraphrase.It sent, I believe it's, five about exposing sin, bring it to the light and its true nature is revealed. I believe this verse justifies Christian investigative reporting. And I believe that Christian journalists, Christian media can play a powerful role in exposing sin in Christianity and calling for [00:54:00]greater transparency and accountability that accountability.So it really is a mission and a mission from God to expose this kind of fraud that send the body of Christ and extravagant lifestyles and other. De'Vannon: And you have to be very, very strong. The did your line of work because you know, people like that, a very rich and powerful, and they're not accustomed to being accountable.Nobody around them is challenging them or anything like that in that used to being told no. So you have a lot of forces working against you, you know, and to get up, you know, and to go to work every day and a dude with a smile on your face, you know, with the, with the grace that you have led to me know that God is with you because.I know another thing, a lot of high circles, you are not celebrated, you know, you serve, I make, can I call you, sir? Is that appropriately? [00:55:00] You know, you, sir are not celebrated a lot of the enemy, right. As am I, but you know what I'm, I want to be a friend of, you know, the people who don't have the people who are trying to figure it out.Do you know? And things like that, you know, I've been homeless before. I've been to jail a bunch of times I got felonies and stuff like that, you know, in a lot of that happened because I didn't have knowledge and I'm not going to let that happen to someone else. And neither are you. Everything you're doing is about knowledge and empowering the individual to know what they're getting themselves into.So Hillsong church now y'all this year, the scandal that is ongoing Hillsong church. I didn't know this till I saw that documentary. They got all these campuses worldwide. I didn't know. I knew about the campus in Austria. But I didn't know about all of this other shit they got going on. So this is evolving.So tell us Barry about their limited liability corporation setup. Barry: Well [00:56:00] in the course of investigations, when a church becomes really popular there, my curiosity guides me. And so when a church gets really popular, I'll just take a quick look at them just to see what's up. Do they have related companies?Things like that, do they have they're on an aircraft? So, I mean, I'll go to the FAA website, looking for Hillsong aircraft, never found any, as far as I know, they don't own any. They do use charter aircraft. There's a company in Australia. They use, I don't remember the name, but in the case of Hillsong well let me back up.There's a company called visit pedia and Busia PDF is a business. Corporations search site, you can find out a company, if they're registered in different states, things like that. And you can search by name of company, name of officers and [00:57:00] address. And so visit PDF is a key website in my investigative arsenal when I do investigations.So I go there and type in Hillsong. And I discover that they are red. They've got a number of listings in Virginia, for example, Virginia companies. Well then from there, I go to the Virginia secretary of state website and it was puzzling to me because I discovered a number of their churches were registered as limited liability companies.Now, what is a big trend in business? Is that companies will separate assets and they'll use limited liability companies to protect those assets. There's less people to suit that way. For example, if you have a church with a business of, [00:58:00] with a, with a a board of directors, like Lakewood church, if you Sue the church, you could end up suing all six board members.In the case of suing a Hillsong church in the U S like Hillsong NYC, LLC, that's seal you'll saw in New York city, you may have one or two managers listed. They don't have a full board of directors. And so it limits how many people get sued. Also it limits how many people have accountant can provide accountability.If you've got one manager who are they accountable to? It's a big. So I actually asked a person that worked for the IRS. If this was legal. I was curious and he said, yes, it is. He wish it wasn't. But a lot of churches are creating shell companies. These limited [00:59:00] liability companies to hold the asset of the building.So their property will be put in an LLC. So if the church is sued, if they have a judgment against the church, then you don't have to lose all their assets. Just the one that was involved in the the legal issue. So this has become a standard practice. So in, in the course of investigating were do two things well, more than that, but two of the big things is we're trying to follow the power.I'm trying to follow the money, follow the power. I mean, by that. Find out, identify who the key decision makers are. So that's why you look for a board of directors and that's, and for incorporated organizations for LLCs, they have articles of organization, not incorporation, they're not a corporation and it will list their [01:00:00] typically list, their manager on these documents.So then after we find out, identify their, their company or organization names, then we can dig even deeper into property searches to find assets. And in the state of Arizona, I did a search and I found a large number of property listings and P H X holdings is a company that Hillsong set up and, and Maricopa county Arizona.To hold property. And so when you see a large number of property listings, it can be a little misleading. So some of these are multiple lots property, lots that make up a parking lot, multiple lots to make up a large building. They even have some vacant lots. [01:01:00] There, there are no pro no buildings on them for maybe future expansion, but they have 30, I think, 31 listings and or did at one time in Maricopa county.So, and that was for two of their large churches also. That was where Hillsong college was. I think they're going to be moving it to California in the future, but so those are some of the things that I discovered in the course of examining Hillsong Hillsong is a very. Personality driven church.It's famous for its worship teams. They have multiple Hillsong worship teams. One's Hillsong United and there's Hillsong young and free. They've sold, I believe over 20 million albums worldwide. So that they're well-known for their worship songs that are sung in a lot of churches and are played on Christian radio.[01:02:00] But in the United States Carl Lentz was pastor of Hillsong NYC in New York city and he became like a celebrity. He developed relationships with actors, singers people like Justin Bieber and got a lot of media attention for it. And people would flock to their churches. It'd be like going to a rock concert.There was a sex scandal there. He had an affair cheated on his wife was fired. We believe he's being rehabilitated. We think he's going to be possibly leading a church in Florida and soon that spelt created with arc association of related churches. There's nothing been disclosed yet, as far as I know, but that's what [01:03:00] it looks like.But Hillsong was founded in Australia. I believe you previously mentioned that. Frank Houston, the father of Brian Houston was involved in the assemblies of God. A well-known leader in that denomination in Australia and Brian started an independent church that he left the assemblies of God.And this is a common thing. When you leave certain denominations, you can have less accountability. Brian's dad, Frank sexually abused some boys, and this has become a big scandal. So, and certain for certain crimes, a [01:04:00] pastor as called a mandatory reporter. If they learn of specific crimes, they're reported, they're required to report them to law enforcement.And that would be, if you learn about a murder or you learn about certain sex crimes you have to report it and he failed to report his own. I mean, I would be the first admit that would be very difficult, but it's the right thing to do. And because he failed to do it it ended up being litigation and finally an investigation.And so we're waiting to see what the sentence will be. He could serve jail time and Australia for that. When you look at Virginia, the secretary of state website, and when you look in some of the other websites, you'll notice that Hillsong had a number of companies and we're going back to what we've mentioned earlier.They have a Hillsong music as one of their companies. [01:05:00] They had a Hillsong channel was, was that a TV channel right now. It's I don't think it's on cable anywhere, or maybe you have, it is it's maybe just an Australia. They have a streaming channel online, but they, they were previously in a relationship with TBN and that ended TBN handled the, the broadcast cable infrastructure for Hillsong channel and that's gone away heal song.There there's so much money that can be made from this and it can be traced. Some of these decisions can be traced to Carl Lentz. His dad Stephen Lintz was an attorney he worked for on pat Robertson many years ago. He taught various courses classes at Regent university [01:06:00] and he wrote a book, the business of church.And in this church, he invited. Pastors on issues like copyright and how to protect assets, the limited liability companies. And so, I mean, he advises pastors that if you can actually own the copyright for your sermons, your intellectual property, and then license it to the church. So I mean the church that I grew up in, if somebody wanted to buy a copy of a sermon years ago, they could get an on a cassette tape or CD for a dollar or two.I mean, the church wasn't interested in making money from it. It would just cover their costs. But now they're, they're, they're doing licensing of this content. They can put it on a website behind a paywall, for example, and you can become a subscriber to listen to their sermons. Now, some [01:07:00]churches put it up there for.Some people post to YouTube, et cetera, but sometimes they'll turn their sermon series into a book that can have a ghost writer, listen to the sermons and write a book. So there's this business. And so in the course of Hillsong, they're mimicking the business world. It's like the church is becoming a business and there there's some interesting Bible verses about this.And second Peter chapter two, verse three Peter's talking about false teachers that would be in the church. And he said that if you read this in the king James version, it says that these teachers, they will make merchandise of you. They have turned the church into a market. It's no different than when Jesus entered the temple many years ago and threw out the money [01:08:00] changers.So what happened in the temple? They would do sacrifices. And if you didn't have a sacrifice, if you traveled to Jerusalem from far away, you may not have been able to bring an animal to sacrifice. So you'd buy one. So they were selling sheep at the temple. They turned it into a marketplace and Jesus throughout the money changers.So if you read that same verse second, Peter two verse three, and like the new living translation, it says something like this in their greed, they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. It's one of my favorite verses about religious frog. De'Vannon: You ain't lying. And you know, the thing is, you know, while they're trying to.Judge, you know, my community for not being straight, calling us all pedophiles and stuff like that. You know, they themselves are found within these pages, in my opinion, much more clear verbiage [01:09:00] and wording than what they try to use to condemn me because I don't identify as straight. I heard what you said about how they get a ghost writer to listen to their sermons and write a book.I'm so glad you said that because I had read one of Joel hostings book. When I was still a member there and I was like, I read through it. And I was like, gosh, I got a sworn. I heard this like in a sermon before. And you know, and so I knew that what the kids, so there's like a system. Okay. So if you write a different sermon most weeks, what, most weeks out of the year, that that could be how they keep pooping out these books again.And again, and again, every time you write a little sermon, you put them together, you got another book, another best seller. So then you're not necessarily getting totally fresh content with, with each of these books. It's just got a different cover on it. A few little shallow ass personal stories that make it feel like they're being authentic and vulnerable [01:10:00] with you.And really they're not. And and shit like that. So you just validated me. I'm like, I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it.So, okay, so we're going to end this first interview here, people out there listening, you know, you've heard what Barry and I've had to say, and this is only the beginning. We're going to do this again. You can go over to the leaving hill song podcasts with Tanya Levine and listen to more of what Barry has to say.You can also go to the discovery plus app or discovery channel plus app. However the fuck you say it and find the Hillsong documentary there. And that, that motherfuck is full of some spicy hot tea. I was clutching my pearls, rip them off, had to go buy a new set and come back again. I watched all three of those one hour episodes twice, and I'm going to watch them again [01:11:00] because I've got some interviews coming up with some people from off the documentary that I was fortunate enough to land.So Mary, thank you so much for coming on this first time. You're you already well-traveled of knowledge like. You're a river, a river like deep well of information. I love how invested you are in what you do. And you have true joy for your calling. And not a lot of people can say that. Do you have any last words for the world today?Barry: Can't think of anythingDe'Vannon: so you don't have to because it will be talking again. So y'all his name is Barry Bowen. You want me to tell them your Twitter handle or that you can? Okay. So he's on Twitter. He's simply at Berry Bowen. He likes to keep things, you know, easiest, simple. Now the website, we can get all the tea and the information is a Trinity F I bad org, which stands for Trinity foundation [01:12:00]international for short.So just tryna FII that org, it will all go into showing notes of blessings upon you all. Thank you, Barry. And everyone listen out for the second installment of this conversation. Thank you for coming on the show today.Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and resources at sex, drugs, and jesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.My name is De'Vannon and it's been wonderful being your host today and just remember that everything is going to be all right. 

Wes Curtis, a fellow Hillsong NYC survivor with Nate, shares his story of entering Hillsong, how he deconstructed while part of the church, and what his exit was like.Follow us on Twitter at @fmutuality, on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality, on Instagram at @fullmutuality, and on WordPress at fullmutuality.wordpress.com. Visit fullmutuality.com for more.Support Full Mutuality on Patreon at patreon.com/fullmutualityFull Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more. Join as a partner on Patreon for exclusive content! Our GDPR privacy policy was updated on August 8, 2022. Visit acast.com/privacy for more information.

What the holy heck is happening at Hillsong?The last six weeks have seen a seesaw of scandalous revelations between Hillsong U.S. and Hillsong Australia. The resignation of global senior pastor Brian Houston after revelations of sexual indiscretion. The discovery of allegations of rape by a junior staffer against a former pastor. The departure of several prominent U.S. pastors and Hillsong affiliated churches. A not-so-flattering documentary. And then the leaked report of the Hillsong NYC investigation, which painted a picture of a church leadership rife with abuse, sexual misconduct and secrecy.This week, Katelyn and Roxy break down the Hillsong breakdown — and explore some of the systemic issues that have seemed to haunt the church from the beginning. Roxy gives a recap of her reporting on Hillsong from the last few years — beginning with the firing of Carl Lentz, hype-priest and Justin Bieber confidante, for his “tequila-drenched love affair.”And we dig into some questions core to Katelyn's upcoming book on Christian celebrities. Including of course, just how deep can a pastor's V-neck go?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You may know Janice as the comedic voice behind the Instagram account @godhasnotgiven, and whose story was recently featured in the Hillsong Exposed documentary on Discovery Plus. Janice tells Kristina what it was like volunteering 10 years of her life to Hillsong NYC, and the experiences which ultimately led her to leave. Using humor to navigate the aftermath, Janice has found self-acceptance, offering her story to those needing help facing the discomfort and pain that comes with leaving church spaces, while keeping laughter and hope in the unknown new beginnings. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast! Follow Janice on Instagram: instagram.com/godhasnotgiven Follow Kristina on Instagram: instagram.com/edgykristinahart Follow Kristina on Twitter: twitter.com/edgykristina Follow That's Super Weird on Instagram: instagram.com/superweirdpod --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/super-weird-pod/support http://superweirdpod.com --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/super-weird-pod/support

This week, Misty and Amarilys may make some enemies. Hillsong is a megachurch out of Australia who built an empire around the world on the strength of its amazing music. They were led by a dynamic man named Frank Houston and a host of celebrity pastors including Carl Lentz who pastored Hillsong NYC. Parishioners at NYC consisted of the likes of Justin Bieber, some Kardashians, Chris Pratt and a number of other celebrities. But what happens when a church becomes larger than its message is supposed to be? Scandal after scandal ranging from financial and ethical irregularities all the way to unspeakable crimes against women and children. As women of faith and lovers of c(C)hurch, Misty and Amarilys have a lot to say about this type of organization. Join them as they discuss this very popular church. As always, please rate and review if you enjoy what you hear and to get more fun and interesting discussions, join them at Off The Doc on Patreon. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/onthedoc/message

Janice Lagata continues sharing her thoughts and experiences from her time at Hillsong NYC and discusses what life and advocacy look like after leaving Hillsong and the larger evangelical world.Janice's website: janicelagata.comJanice's podcast: God Has Not GivenHillsong documentary on Discovery+: Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed - Discovery+Follow us on Twitter at @fmutuality, on Facebook at fb.com/fullmutuality, on Instagram at @fullmutuality, and on WordPress at fullmutuality.wordpress.com. Visit fullmutuality.com for more.Support Full Mutuality on Patreon at patreon.com/fullmutualityFull Mutuality is a Dauntless Media Collective podcast. Visit dauntless.fm for more. Join as a partner on Patreon for exclusive content! Our GDPR privacy policy was updated on August 8, 2022. Visit acast.com/privacy for more information.

Tim sat down with Janice who runs the instagram account Godhasnotgiven to talk about her time working at Hillsong NYC and interacting directly with Carl Lentz. Janice was open and honest about her time and how it eventually lead to her leaving the Evangelical Church for good.Follow us on Instagram // @thenewevangelicalsFollow Janice // @GodhasnotgivenSupport the Work We DoIf you like the show give us a rating!Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Join Janice and her friend Joanna for some backward glances at a few years in the lives of Black women who were wanting, working towards and waiting for Hillsong NYC to be just a little bit better.  WTF: Joanna @josiny || instagram @josiny || twitter Janice @godhasnotgiven // @jani_the_cat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This weeks false teacher is former Hillsong NYC and celebrity pastor Carl Lentz

Nathan Finochio is the founder and leader of TheosU, an exhaustive (not exhausting) library of amazing Christian teaching that rivals any college or seminary you could possibly attend. He is often found speaking at churches all over the world, and he is a fascinating guy. In this conversation, Jeremy and Nathan talk about TheosU and how it seeks to inform a church that is quickly falling into liberal and relativistic teachings. Nathan also speaks about his experiences at Hillsong NYC and how it helped launch the vision that would become TheosU. Check out TheosU: https://theosu.ca/ Follow Nathan on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanfinochio/?hl=en Follow Jeremy on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/allthings.allpeople/?hl=en Reach out to ATAP: Jeremy@allthingsallpeople.org

This week we had the privilege of speaking to writer and podcaster Janice Lagata (God Has Not Given!). She is a Hillsong College alumnus, and was the former stage manager and original launch team member of Hillsong NYC. We discuss rockstar pastor Carl Lentz, church volunteer burnout and how toxic culture is not taught, it's caught. We also take Lentz to Hell Court and have a Bible meditation with some VERY problematic scriptures—you've been warned. Brought to you by the guy on the worship team with all the random shakers and bells. "God Has Not Given" podcast https://janicelagata.com/god-has-not-given "Exclusive: Sex abuse allegations by Carl Lentz's former nanny put spotlight on Hillsong culture" by Religion News Service https://religionnews.com/2021/05/31/sex-abuse-allegations-by-carl-lentzs-former-nanny-put-spotlight-on-hillsong-culture/ "Serenade" album https://open.spotify.com/album/16Vqt7C8ATJOv8whmrMsFk Irreverent Media Group www.irreverent.fm DRCK Patreon https://www.patreon.com/dirtyrottenchurchkids DRCK Merch https://dirtyrottenchurchkids.creator-spring.com/? Intro theme " Up In My Jam (All Of A Sudden) – Kubbi" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDexBj46oNI Janice Lagata's Theme Song "Happy Piano Pop Type Beat "MOOD" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M-JWOXepho Hell Court Music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iTqoDH0vFU Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Fallon and I discuss the MCU and her time with Hillsong NYC and where she is now with the evangelical church. 

Janice Lagata is the incredible human behind God Has Not Given. In this podcast, we talk about her journey of deconstruction which included going through Hillsong's school in Sydney Australia and being heavily involved in Hillsong NYC right from the beginning. You can follow Janice on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/godhasnotgiven Her website is https://www.godhasnotgiven.com And of course, don't forget to check out her podcast "God Has Not Given" on all podcast platforms. Support my work and join our private online community: ╰►Via my site: https://www.phildrysdale.com/partner ╰►Via Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/phildrysdale ╰►Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/phildrysdale ╰►Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/phildrysdale ╰►Find others deconstructing locally: https://www.thedeconstructionnetwork.com ╰►More about me: https://www.phildrysdale.com

Zach Mullings is an amazing human and a fantastic drummer, and in this episode you will discover his story and hear our BIG ANNOUNCEMENT.

Scandal, deceit, lies, lust! No... we aren't talking about your favorite harlequin romance novel; today we are talking about pastors! It seems we hear about it all the time these days: a pastor's rise to God-like stardom only to fall tragically to the guise of a hefty sex scandal. Why does this tragic tale keep becoming a reality? Are there better ways to handle these situations or to avoid them all together? Today we discuss pastors gone wild!Support the show (https://paypal.me/ChristianAFPodcast)

In mainstream Christian media, there is a lot of talk about some recent controversy including popular pastors and theologians falling into sin. Namely the news of Carl Lentz of Hillsong NYC and his multiple affairs, and Ravi Zacharias of Ravi Zacharias Ministries and the sexual abuse allegations that have come up since the late apologist death in 2020. How should it be viewed by Christians and what can we learn from these examples? Link to referenced Red Flag list: https://www.9marks.org/answer/what-are-warning-flags-watch-out-when-considering-man-potential-elder/ Our website: https://www.eyesopenedministries.org/

We have had a podcast series for a while called the "Midweek Breakdown". This is where we take relevant conversations and just talk about them. Pastors Jesse and Lucas discuss cultural, biblical and other topics in a relaxed, non-scripted way. This week we talk about "the Hot Pastor Problem". In light of the recent news about Hillsong NYC and Pastor Carl Lentz, we discuss issues around "Hot Pastors". Have a listen, and feel free to subscribe on your favorite podcasting service by searching for "ARB Church".

Pastor Dave read Ruth Graham's NYT piece following the end of Carl Lentz's tenure at Hillsong NYC and thought "there but for the grace of God go I." The guys talk about entitlement, alienation, and accountability in the church.

Recently, the Christian world went mayhem over the firing of Hillsong Nyc's senior pastor, Carl Lentz over alleged misconduct. Nicknamed 'Justin Bieber's pastor', Lentz came under the lens of a fiery judgment by the Christendom.  In this podcast, John Giftah sheds light on how we are really supposed to respond and to pray for all the ministers of the gospel who are under direct attack of the enemy.Thanks for dropping by! Would love to hear from you - Stay connected through any of the below ways :)You can buy my new bestselling book, UNVEIL YOUR PURPOSE (a #1 Newly Released Bestseller on Amazon) here:India: https://www.amazon.in/UNVEIL-YOUR-PURPOSE-John-Giftah/dp/B08K2CJKP2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=john+giftah&qid=1611990618&sr=8-1Global Amazon.com: https://www.amazon.com/Unveil-Your-Purpose-Complete-Created-ebook/dp/B08L7XX9PJ/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=john+giftah%27&qid=1611990705&sr=8-2Kindly note that the Global distribution of the paperback will take some more timeYou can stay in touch with me through these platforms:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/johngiftahInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/johngiftahFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/sjohngiftah/Website: https://www.johngiftah.com/#johngiftah #christian #christianity #jesuschrist #inspirational #hope #faith #grace #Bible #Biblestudy #destiny #purpose--- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app--- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/john-giftah/message

Recently, the Christian world went mayhem over the firing of Hillsong Nyc's senior pastor, Carl Lentz over alleged misconduct. Nicknamed 'Justin Bieber's pastor', Lentz came under the lens of a fiery judgment by the Christendom. In this podcast, John Giftah sheds light on how we are really supposed to respond and to pray for all the ministers of the gospel who are under direct attack of the enemy. Thanks for dropping by! Would love to hear from you - Stay connected through any of the below ways :) You can buy my new bestselling book, UNVEIL YOUR PURPOSE (a #1 Newly Released Bestseller on Amazon) here: India: https://www.amazon.in/UNVEIL-YOUR-PURPOSE-John-Giftah/dp/B08K2CJKP2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=john+giftah&qid=1611990618&sr=8-1 Global Amazon.com: https://www.amazon.com/Unveil-Your-Purpose-Complete-Created-ebook/dp/B08L7XX9PJ/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=john+giftah%27&qid=1611990705&sr=8-2 Kindly note that the Global distribution of the paperback will take some more time You can stay in touch with me through these platforms: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/johngiftah Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/johngiftah Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sjohngiftah/ Website: https://www.johngiftah.com/ #johngiftah #christian #christianity #jesuschrist #inspirational #hope #faith #grace #Bible #Biblestudy #destiny #purpose --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/john-giftah/message

Jesse and Natalia talk with Janice Lagata, an Ex-vangelical and recovering Hillsong NYC volunteer about megachurch culture and why leaving the church is an act of resistance. Support the show at http://patreon.com/cafeteriachristian  

We discuss the affair Carl Lentz of Hillsong NYC had during the pandemic, episode 5 of The Undoing and our current obsessions. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/sisterhoodasweknowit/message

Transcribed highlights of the show can be found in our episode summaries. At the beginning of this month, Hillsong NYC pastor Carl Lentz was fired. A day after the news went public, he posted a picture of his family on Instagram admitting he was unfaithful in his marriage. Both before and after the news, Lentz made headlines across Christian and secular media for his popularity and successful ministry—as well as the “hipster” pastor look he popularized. When Lentz co-founded Hillsong NYC with Joel Houston in 2010, the church drew lines around the block and caught the eye of A-list celebrities, none more famous than Justin Bieber. Lentz, who became famous for his wire-rimmed glasses, plunging V-necks, and designer sneakers, himself became subject of a number of profiles, including this 2015 GQ feature from Taffy Brodesser-Akner: “The music! The lights! The crowds!” begins an incredulous woman narrating a CNN segment on Hillsong NYC . “It looks like a rock concert.” The chyron reads “Hipster preacher smashes stereotypes.” They call Pastor Carl a hipster. Carl says he doesn’t know what that means, and he wears a motorcycle jacket when he says this.Pastor Joel is unwilling to acknowledge that there’s something going on here. Yes, he tells me, sure, he likes clothes. But that’s the end of it. I should ask Pastor Carl about the clothes, he tells me. What Pastor Carl does, he says—that’s intentional, and then he laughs. This week on Quick to Listen, we wanted to discuss the attention around a new generation of fashion-forward pastors. What does it reveal about ministry? But what does our fascination with this aesthetic reveal more broadly about the American and Western church? Anthropologist Katherine Ajibade, formerly a researcher with the British think tank Theos, joins CT’s Morgan Lee and Kate Shellnutt. What is Quick to Listen? Read more Rate Quick to Listen on Apple Podcasts Follow the podcast on Twitter Follow our hosts on Twitter: Morgan Lee and Ted Olsen Follow Katherine Ajibade on Twitter Music by Sweeps Quick to Listen is produced by Morgan Lee and Matt Linder The transcript is edited by Bunmi Ishola Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The social fallout coming by the rising divorce-marriage rate and illegitimacy rate is only now playing out, and will between 2020 and 2060. But, what about the pastors- Will the pastors be examples to the flock- Or do we see a capitulation on matters like sin, repentance, and the necessity of the fruit of righteousness in the lives of believers- What do these guys teach, and do ideas really have consequences in their lives- Jesus said, -By their fruits you shall know them.- Can we say this of the latest Hillsong debacle-----This program includes-----1. The World View in 5 Minutes with Adam McManus -Trump attorney- We'll -overturn results of election in multiple states-, Norway law- Pastors get 3 years in prison if they speak against homosexuality, Pastor Jay Adams, author of Competent to Counsel, goes to Heaven-----2. Generations with Kevin Swanson

A new MP3 sermon from Generations Radio is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: Are Pastors Good Examples? - Roots and Fruits—Hillsong NYC, et. al Subtitle: Roots and Fruits—Hillsong NYC Speaker: Kevin Swanson Broadcaster: Generations Radio Event: Current Events Date: 11/17/2020 Length: 34 min.

A new audio commentary on a recent news item from Generations Radio is now available on SermonAudio: Title: Are Pastors Good Examples? - Roots and Fruits—Hillsong NYC, et. al Subtitle: Roots and Fruits—Hillsong NYC Speaker: Kevin Swanson Broadcaster: Generations Radio Event: Current Events Date: 11/17/2020 Length: 34 min.

You always have a choice to decide who you will be and what type of love you will show. But here's the thing: who you decide to be and how you decide to love has life-altering potential and impact and you won't know who it impacts until you act!Connect with Meta Church online, on Instagram, or on Facebook. To donate to Meta Church click here.

Brian Houston Announces Investigation Into Hillsong NYC After Lentz's Firing (UCNN 11.12.20) by Daniel Whyte III

We've learned more about the affair of Hillsong NYC pastor Carl Lentz. He met his paramour Ranin, a designer, in a park. He introduced himself as a sports agent. He wouldn't give her his last name, and she was okay with that. They were sleeping together before she got forceful enough to learn his last name which led to her finding out his real story. When she did, the affair continued. It only stop because they got caught. Of course as we examine this fall, we must remember the prodigal, the fallen son, who is ultimately welcomed back with open arms. It seems like our entire world today is a sort of prodigal, how far have we strayed from the roots of our country, the roots of our faith. And what is the path home?

In this concluding episode of the series "Urban World, Urban Church" we look at several odd things about the urban church.The first is how nationalism is increasingly disparaged in Christian circles today, while urban church people want us to strongly identify with our city. How many sermons or articles have warned about making an idol out of the city vs. making one of your nation? They seem to be encouraging us to transfer our allegiance from our country to our city.The second is how the urban church world is very focused on starting new churches, while rarely trying to renew old ones. This is very odd in light of how they often explicitly transform an entire city. Can you transform a city of you can't transform a church? The Catholic Church is an exception in this regard, having successfully transformed many parishes as neighborhood demographics changed.The third is how tribal these urban church groups seem to be. At the elite levels, they seem to have virtually nothing to do with each other (e.g., Redeemer NYC and Hillsong NYC) and avoid even commenting on each other.  They argue against nationalism by saying that our identity as fellow Christians should trump other loyalties, yet they seem to not even be in active fellowship with the church down the street.

(00:00-09:39): A Few Headlines: John Piper’s Liberty Convocation Pulled After Election Post. University said Piper's appearance with J. D. Greear was “unfortunate timing,” falling the same week as his viral article decrying both presidential candidates. North Korea COVID Victims Left to Die in Quarantine Camps. Carl Lentz Fired from Hillsong NYC. Man Arrested (09:39-19:40): How Churches Elevate and Protect Abusive Pastors: A psychologist explores the power dynamics that help turn shepherds into wolves. Tim Hein interviewed Diane Langberg. (19:40-28:22): W.E.B. Dubois wrote “Why I Won’t Vote” in 1956. (28:22-37:57): Lisa Bevere writes “The Cult of Comparison” in Relevant Magazine. (37:57-46:20): Susan Page writes “A fiercely contested presidential election reinforced the nation's divide. What's next?” in USA Today. (46:20-1:05:03): We were joined by Pastor Mandy Smith from University Christian Church, a campus and neighborhood congregation with its own fair-trade café in Cincinnati, Ohio. We discussed her book, “Unfettered: Imagining a Childlike Faith beyond the Baggage of Western Culture” that comes out next May. Unfettered helps us reimagine how to follow God with our whole selves again and join with God’s mission in the world. (1:05:03-1:13:50): Adam Russell Taylor writes “Reading Isaiah as the Nation Waits” in SoJourner. PLUS, we discuss “Evangelicalism Is Not Rounding the Corner” by Kristen Du Mez in Patheos.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The election fraud nauseating saga continues. What should you do about this election? Is there anything you can do? Hollywood puts a financial cap on Christians..Why? Hillsong NYC pastor fired. Why? What are omega 6 oils? Why are they so dangerous? What to use instead. How to avoid stress. Supplements to use. How to maintain good blood viscosity. High energy must listen show.

On this episode, Dharius sits down with Hillsong NYC pastor Carl Lentz. Their conversation covers breaking bad religion, to having thick skin and a soft heart, to how racism is challenging the humility of Christianity. Plus, don't miss the cast's conversation about the fly that made an appearance at the VP debate and how political leaders need to be knowledgeable about what systemic racism really is. And to finish the episode, Dharius answers your questions about interfaith-relationships and why God chose you.

Streamed live on Oct 5, 2020 This episode takes a look at Logan Paul's interview of pastor Carl Lentz of Hillsong NYC. Does Carl Lentz describe a Biblicaly accurate view of what it means to love Jesus and be His disciple? Join us! From https://www.youtube.com/kingdomincontext "The Creator never intended for us to be confused by His words. He gave us His Words of life, and He gave them in context, to be understood and beneficial to our walk with Him. This channel's goal is to bring clarity to some of the misconceptions that have formed over time among believers and taught by others, however innocent and well-intended. The Scriptures make complete sense when we keep its words in context of His coming kingdom and His coming King, Jesus the Messiah. Sharing the gospel of the kingdom...in context." ~~~ Sean Griffin from Kingdom in Context can be found @ https://www.youtube.com/kingdomincontext Join the Liiighthouse group and support the free speech movement@ https://www.facebook.com/groups/36787... Follow Kingdom In Context Instagram: @ https://www.instagram.com/kingdomincontext Twitter: @ https://twitter.com/KingdomContext If you feel led, you can support Kingdom in Context:@ PayPal: https://www.paypal.me/sgriffin887 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/kingdomincontext Please make personal check payable to Sean Griffin @ PO Box 1266, Ft. Collins, CO 80522 Like. Share. Subscribe. Honor of Kings. 2020 Kingdom In Context. 2020 ~~~~~~~ If this blessed you, share it. Contact @ BeGoodBroadcast@gmail.com Twitter @ https://twitter.com/WinInHim --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/begoodbroadcast/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/begoodbroadcast/support

"Its not about the talks you give on Instagram . Its not about the celebrations. It's about what you do behind the scenes that no one knows about, no one talks about, no one sees. ".  Taylor Palmby (Heart Support, Hillsong NYC) is a visionary, a friend, and a world-changer.  Taylor and Helen discuss faith, meaning, and learning from pain. She and Helen unpack how loving ourselves can unlock deeper love for others. They also discus the necessity to "pivot" in order to grow. Taylor unpacks how growth starts with 'why', how our willingness to say "I'm sorry" can strengthen a healthy leadership organization, and cultivating family in the workplace...all that and more in this episode :) --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/whoyouneeded/message

It's our first Tuesday episode in like six months! To kick off the all-new twice-a-week era, Hillsong NYC pastor Carl Lentz joins us to talk about the racial justice movement in the NBA, quarantine and even healthy media habits. (Like listening to this episode?) Plus, the cast—Jamie, Derek, Jesse and Cameron—bring the week's slices, your feedback and a lot more. Don't miss it!

It can get complicated.. yet, there is always a way. Special guest Amanda Cato join’s us to define some friendship goals. She is an author/writer. She loves empowerment and motivating women and children. Amanda worships with the Hillsong NYC church. She’s in a sisterhood group filled with women growing faith and  purpose. More about Amanda here: https://msha.ke/wesealedgenesis/#top-picks --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/wesealedgenesis/support

"I intended on resuming our sermon series on the book of Ephesians but about the middle of this week I felt moved to stay on the theme of racial justice. I've been reading a lot and watching a lot of content lately and trying to get perspectives from every angle. Listening to a black pastor (TD Jakes) share his story this week with Hillsong NYC pastor (Carl Lenz) left me undone. I admit that there is so much suffering in the world that I can hear about and feel numb to. But when I listened to this pastor, it was as if the Lord Himself was helping me to understand and feel empathy. In one point of the conversation the pastor was talking about the parable of the Good Samaritan and it became the seed for this week's sermon."

Hillsong NYC pastor Carl Lentz sits down with Bishop T.D. Jakes for a vital conversation. Also, we take a look at how other Christian leaders are reacting to the nationwide protests.

Prince Charles, heir to the British throne, has been diagnosed with coronavirus. His wife has reportedly tested negative for the virus. In other news, Hillsong NYC pastor Carl Lentz confirmed that he has tested positive for COVID-19. The virus killed playwright Terrence McNally, retired New York Times reporter Alan Finder, and Dezann Romain, age thirty-six, a school principal from Brooklyn. Of course, coronavirus is not the only mortality-related subject in the news. Kenny Rogers' death reminds us that celebrities are mortal. The problem is, it's human nature to think that what happens to others is less likely to happen to us. These Special Editions are intended to speak to breaking news with a “fear not” or other word of assurance from Scripture. Today, let's consider a less-obvious fear we should confront. Put succinctly: Our greatest fear should not be the fear of death, but the fear that we are not afraid of it. Read more or subscribe to The Daily Article at DenisonForum.org.

Hillsong NYC Pastor Carl Lentz has tested positive for coronavirus. Liberty University welcomes students back to campus in the midst of the pandemic and Bright Eyes is back with a new song.

This week our friend, Pastor Carl Lentz from Hillsong NYC, encourages our faith by reminding us that when we walk in the Spirit we will always be getting better.

Ready to be amazed by one human’s mental and physical fortitude? Meet David Mykel, the Founder and Head Coach of CliffHanger Academy. David’s background and accomplishments are incredibly unique and varied, and I think you’ll really enjoy hearing his story. David is an educator, adventurer, coach and storyteller. His approach to life is emblematic of living life to its fullest, and pursuing your dreams and ambitions despite setbacks and roadblocks. At the core of David’s practice is the belief that the mind and body are intrinsically connected and that we must feed both in other to achieve a state of happiness and peace.   Here are some key takeaways from my chat with David:     We can use psychology to change our physiology. If your brain and body are connected, you can accomplish so much and alter the trajectory of your day (and life);   The power of one percent is undeniable. Doing any one thing (or multiple things) 1% better than the previous time can lead to significant positive change in your life;   Growth doesn’t happen in your comfort zone, so step outside of it;   When it comes to life changes, sustainability is important. Meet yourself where you are and start from there;   Healthy living is thriving, not just surviving in your health, wealth, relationships, and spirituality.   David founded CliffHanger Academy, a revolutionary, scientifically proven Psychology Fitness (Psy-Fi) program that combines Psychology with Action Sports and Neuroscience. Using the mental aspects of Neuroscience, the behavior change abilities of Psychology combined with the physical aspect of Action Sports David helps high performers use their physiology to change their psychology. David created this groundbreaking program by combining his 25+ years in Action Sports, with 20+ years obsessing over psychology and 10+ years studying neuroscience into something that challenges and connect the brain and body, but is fun at the same time. In addition to founding CliffHanger Academy, David has traveled to 49 countries, surfed a two-story wave, free-soloed a 700-foot mountain with no rope and descended some of the most famous peaks in the western hemisphere on a snowboard. When not in the mountains or ocean, you'll find David leading a group of Christian men at Hillsong NYC to navigate the trials and tribulations of life as well as educating individuals on the importance of public speaking as a President with Toastmasters, International.   You can connect with David via CliffHanger Academy, Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook.

In this episode, Kaylee takes Steven to her church, Hillsong NYC! They discuss crying on buses, spirituality, why church is important to Kaylee, and Steven says the show title correctly. Check us out on Kaylee's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyabzRvHJ29rEewTLeX4WOQ/videosKaylee Socials: Instagram & Twitter - @kaybearitSteven Socials: Instagram - @stevenmeekerTwitter - @StevenMeekerJr

In last week’s episode, we were introduced to the hilarious Nathan Finochio, as he interviewed some of our well-known team. This week, we get to see a completely different side of him, as he shares his profound wisdom about hearing God and the different between gifting and anointing. Nathan has spent years as the teaching pastor of Hillsong NYC, has a passion for theology and communicating the timeless truths of the Gospel in relevant and impacting ways. He’s a songwriter, author, preacher, musician, and an all-around creative. Listen to Nathan share a bit about his journey, the value of spiritual maturity and the power of what we bring individually and collectively as creatives. To hear more from Nathan, check out his newly released book ‘Hearing God’

Special Guest Jade DaSilva visits from Hillsong NYC to share this incredibly encouraging word to help you get through the less than favorable situations in life. The God who began a great work in you has promised to complete it all the way the end...even if it feels like you're stuck in the middle. Support the show (http://www.free.church/giving)

Carl Lentz is a world renown influencer. While often known as pastor to many celebrities, frequenting media outlets everywhere, he is more importantly a husband to Laura Lentz and father of three incredible kids. He is also the lead pastor of Hillsong NYC and a chart topping author.

In this episode of The GateKeepers Radio Show, Jeff Dornik takes a look at what Scripture says about how we should dress for church. An article at Pulpit & Pen had criticized Carl Lentz (pastor of Hillsong NYC) for his casual attire. So the question then becomes: Should Christians dress up for church or go casual? The answer may surprise you!For more information visit gatekeepersonline.comFollow Jeff Dornik on Twitter at @JeffTheGKFollow GK Podcast Network on Twitter at @TheGKOnline

In this episode of The GateKeepers Radio Show, Jeff Dornik takes a look at what Scripture says about how we should dress for church. An article at Pulpit & Pen had criticized Carl Lentz (pastor of Hillsong NYC) for his casual attire. So the question then becomes: Should Christians dress up for church or go casual? The answer may surprise you! For more information visit gatekeepersonline.com Follow Jeff Dornik on Twitter at @JeffTheGK Follow GK Podcast Network on Twitter at @TheGKOnline

Has where you’ve been, and what you’ve done, kept you living the same story over and over? Pastor Carl Lentz, Lead Pastor of Hillsong NYC, brought a word of encouragement that there is a new chapter, and a new day, no matter where you are. But you have to be willing to take the risk and turn the page.A message by Pastor Carl Lentz, Lead Pastor of Hillsong NYC, at Lifepoint Church in Fredericksburg, Virginia.

Hear Chris Davenport discuss the ins and outs of being the creative pastor at Hillsong NYC as well as the challenges that come with maintaining a healthy culture in an actively growing team. Working with a volunteer team in the city that never sleeps, Chris provides key tips to become an intentional leader, prioritizing detail and consistent communication in a creative environment. Make sure to stick around after the interview for the special segment in Season 2, “The Creative Compass”.

We had an amazing Sunday with Guest speaker & friend of our house Pastor Josh Kimes from Hillsong NYC.

Pastor Carl Lentz from Hillsong NYC challenged us with three specific ways to live with the mindset of a page-turner. Let’s remember: fewer fingers pointing outward + more thumbs pointing inward. Only Jesus can change people. It’s not about us changing people, it’s about US changing.

This week, we’re joined by Hillsong NYC pastor and author of the new book Own the Moment, Carl Lentz, who discusses his critics and why every Christian can make an impact in their world. Indie folk duo The Welcome Wagon also joins us to talk about the songs that changed their lives. The gang also discusses a disconcerting new announcement from Southwest Airlines, Mark Wahlberg’s spiritual awakening, Millie Bobby Bro

This week, we're joined by Hillsong NYC pastor and author of the new book Own the Moment, Carl Lentz, who discusses his critics and why every Christian can make an impact in their world. Indie folk duo The Welcome Wagon also joins us to talk about the songs that changed their lives. The gang also discusses a disconcerting new announcement from Southwest Airlines, Mark Wahlberg's spiritual awakening, Millie Bobby Bro--- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/relevant-podcast/messageSupport this podcast: https://anchor.fm/relevant-podcast/support See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Chad’s busy recording his audio book so what do we do? We record a podcast without him. In this episode, Ben, David and Luke look at a recent interview The View did with Carl Lentz (pastor of Hillsong NYC) where he was asked what his stance is on abortion and homosexuality. They discuss his answer, and the importance of pointing to Jesus and God’s love without compromising the truth of the Gospel. There are rants, disagreements, and of course David’s Random Story!

Wednesday, August 30, 2017 Outpour, Night 1 Speaker: Pastor Carl Lentz, Hillsong NYC

2016-11-20 Guest speaker Nathan Finochio from Hillsong NYC brings an excellent word.

2016-08-14 Nathan Finochio from Hillsong NYC brings a powerful message on The Gospel

Peter J. Marshall, President at The Gideons International In Canada, joined James Kurtis this week on #TheDrive and talked about the upcoming sendme /ˈmo͞ovmənt/ conference - a gathering of youth & young adults passionate about sharing Jesus everyday! Hear details about Nathan Finochio from Hillsong NYC sharing a powerful message. And Paul & Hannah McClure from Bethel Music who will be leading in a passionate time of worship, this August 14th, 2016! Hey Toronto and everyone in Ontario...don't miss this! Get Connected: Online: www.joyradio.ca Facebook: www.facebook.com/myJOYRadio Twitter: www.twitter.com/myJOYRadio Instagram: www.instagram.com/myJOYRadio Online: www.sendme.ca/mvmnt/ Facebook: www.facebook.com/sendmemovement Twitter: www.twitter.com/sendmemovement Instagram: www.instagram.com/sendmemovement

Jae and Joaquin talk about the passing of boxing great Muhammad Ali, discuss the Hillsong NYC controversy and discuss how the pursuit of relevance can lead us to astray.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/the-overflow-podcast. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

"Sometimes the answer to prayer is us." - Billy Power This episode is a battle of the sexy voices. Never before have we recorded an episode in the morning, but since Billy is in New York, we had to record early. 6:30 am my time, 9:30 am his time. We chat about organizational religion and corporate culture. His upbringing, his military experience, some great life lessons, and his music career. Billy was a part of running Tooth & Nail Records for about ten years. He and I agree the existing institutional church model in America isn't working. But what's the alternative? He attends Hillsong NYC at the request of his wife and has some decent things to say about it. When he took a trip to Kenya, it changed his life. Getting out of our comfort zones and embracing life outside of ourselves will often do that.   Join the CounterCulture Society: http://eepurl.com/bwqMWT Produce Our Show: https://www.patreon.com/losingourreligion Find Out More: http://www.losingourreligion.org This Episode's Landing Page: http://www.losingourreligion.org/episodes/church-is-jacked-but-what-else-is-there-billy-power Twitter: https://twitter.com/LosingRReligion Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LosingOurReligion

Guest Speaker - Pr. Josh Kimes from Hillsong NYC comes to Church ALIVE and brings an incredible word titled "Don't Settle For Trees". Listen in and be inspired by Pr. Josh! Don't forget to share this with your friends! Be sure to subscribe to our Podcast and follow us on social media! Feel free to get more information regarding Church ALIVE on our website! Thank you for checking us out here on iTunes!Church ALIVE Love God, Love People, Love LifeWebsite: www.churchalive.tvInstagram: @churchalivenjFacebook: www.facebook.com/churchalivenj**Also if any of these messages have impacted you and would like to provide feedback, have a praise report on how God is working in your life, or need a prayer, please email connect@churchalive.tv

As we head into Thanksgiving, Louie Giglio catches up with Carl Lentz to talk about about Hillsong NYC, what it looks like to live out the love of Jesus and Passion 2015!

Tyler Reagin talks with Hillsong NYC pastor, Carl Lentz, about properly stewarding your leadership. Plus, a roundtable discussion with our friends from Compassion International. Learn more at compassion.com/catalyst or compassion.com/AtYourChurch.

This week we talk to one of our favorite people, the inspiring pastor of Hillsong NYC, Carl Lentz. Yes he’s made Justin Bieber cry from the pulpit and baptized NBA MVP Kevin Durant, but there is so much more to Carl than being

This week we talk to one of our favorite people, the inspiring pastor of Hillsong NYC, Carl Lentz. Yes he's made Justin Bieber cry from the pulpit and baptized NBA MVP Kevin Durant, but there is so much more to Carl than being--- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/relevant-podcast/messageSupport this podcast: https://anchor.fm/relevant-podcast/support See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Hillsong NYC's Pastor Carl Lentz.