Podcasts about Little Giant

As a Manhattan book editor, strategic planner, and corporate marketing VP, Marcia Heath seemed to have it all figured out. But after a series of major setbacks, she headed to Aruba to reset and relax. There, she stumbled upon a story that would change everything: a tiny surf shop owned by two friends who were blazing an entirely different path to success. It was a moment that would transform her life and inspire her first book, "Little Giant," a story about defying conventional wisdom and seeking success on your own terms. We talk about her book, her previous career and why she changed it, working as an editor, business values, creating a brand, starting a surf shop, surfing, transient global amnesia, finding happiness, facing our fears, writing books, changing careers, distilling one million words of interviews into a book, writing nonfiction, books, using accountability, and more. Shownotes and links are here Support through Patreon

The man they called The Little Giant nearly died from spinal tuberculosis when he was 11. It left him with stunted growth and a curved back. He went on to become one of the greatest geologists and surveyors in Canadian history. Support: patreon.com/canadaehx Merch: https://www.ohcanadashop.com/collections/canadian-history-ehx Donate: buymeacoffee.com/craigu Donate: canadaehx.com (Click Donate) E-mail: craig@canadaehx.com Twitter: twitter.com/craigbaird Threads: https://www.threads.net/@cdnhistoryehx Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@cdnhistoryehx YouTube: youtube.com/c/canadianhistoryehx Want to send me something? Craig Baird PO Box 2384 Stony Plain PO Main, Alberta T7Z1X8 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this podcast episode, Ryan Moss, CEO of Little Giant Ladders, shares his journey from an entry-level role sweeping floors to leading the company. Ryan recounts how he initially joined Little Giant after working in construction and, over the years, has been deeply involved in nearly every part of the business. He reflects on the challenges and triumphs of building Little Giant's brand, including a pivotal moment when the company invested in an infomercial to counteract a competitor's knockoff product. This high-stakes move turned into a critical branding success, illustrating both the resilience and innovation that have been central to Little Giant's growth and partnership strategies.      

It's another Pre-code film ya see, myah! This one stars the mug Edward G Robinson. The Spoiler Room Crew take on "The Little Giant". How does this relate to the other pre-code gangster films and how could it have contributed to the forming of the Hayes Code? Tune in as we discuss. #podcast #precodemovies #littlegiant #robinson Literary License Podcast: ⁠⁠https://www.llpodcast.com/⁠⁠Kicking the Seat: ⁠⁠https://kickseat.com/⁠ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/spoilerroompodcast/support

In this action-packed episode of Talk Dirt To Me, we dive into the latest news affecting American agriculture and beyond. First, we discuss the recent layoffs at Case IH and how it might impact the farming industry. From there, we take a wild detour into the future with intergalactic space travel—we pose a couple moral dilemmas, what would you do? Back on Earth, we break down the benefits of alternative crops like triticale and teff grass, plus how recent massive rainfalls are affecting crop yields across the country. We also touch on highlights from the recent presidential debate. As always, we wrap up with our "Made in America" spotlight. This week, we feature Little Giant, a trusted name for chicken feeders, honey extractors, and other farming essentials—proudly made in the USA. Tune in for a mix of ag news, sci-fi, and support for American-made products! Highlighted Made in America Company/Product: https://miller-mfg.com/collections/little-giant  Agzaga is the official sponsor of Talk Dirt to Me! It is the ultimate online farm store. American owned and operated. Go check out their site and get what you need. Be sure to use the code TALKDIRT to get 10% off your order! Visit them at: https://agzaga.com  If you enjoy this episode then please leave us a review and share this episode with your friends! Follow us on social media: Talk Dirt to Me Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talkdirtpodcast/  Bobby Lee: Facebook- https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=hurricane%20creek%20farms Instagram- https://www.instagram.com/hurricanecreekfarm/ YouTube- https://www.youtube.com/c/HurricaneCreekFarms Logan: Facebook- https://www.facebook.com/LHFarmsTN Instagram- https://www.instagram.com/lo.hanks/ YouTube- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqYpTjKQtOMABFOc2Aw3_Ow 

Scaling a company is hard enough, but scaling your way up the ladder at the same company for 40 years while preventing injuries and saving lives? That's a different ladder to climb. In this episode, we sit down with Ryan Moss, CEO of Little Giant Ladder System, to uncover the milestones, challenges, and innovation strategies that helped the company grow from a small Utah business to a global brand. Tune in to explore: How Ryan transitioned from $4.50 an hour in manufacturing to the CEO's office The strategic decision that led Little Giant to partner exclusively with a single retail partner How the company's 2003 infomercial catapulted 600% growth in a single year Ryan's leadership philosophy and his commitment to both employee and customer feedback — The Midnight Founders Podcast is powered by RevRoad and CB Vault. 

We briefly discuss the Olympics and upcoming Lollapalooza. We get cameos from some of our fave training camp buddies, plus see the other Little Giant in action (trying to buy an Ace shirt)! "Stay" tuned to the end to hear us try to describe the "Chk Chk Boom" dance.

A bootlegger (Edward G. Robinson) decides to go legit after prohibition ends and moves from Chicago to California to mix with high society.  Co-starring Mary Astor.

Send us a Text Message.Tim & John head up to northern Wisconsin to talk with Jeremiah Brodie, business unit trainer for Franklin Electric's Little Giant.The For The Pro® app is available for both iOS and Android devices through the Apple and Google app stores, download it today!Subscribe to the Appetite for Construction podcast at any of your favorite streaming channels and don't forget about the other ways to interact with the Mechanical Hub Team! Follow Plumbing Perspective IG @plumbing_perspective Follow Mechanical Hub IG @mechanicalhub Sign up for our newsletter at www.mechanical-hub.com/enewsletter Visit our websites at www.mechanical-hub.com and www.plumbingperspective.com Send John and Tim your feedback or topic ideas: @plumbing_perspective

On this episode of Our American Stories, Carl Albert was known as the Little Giant from Little Dixie. He would rise to become the Speaker of the House during the Watergate years. Here's the story of how he put principle over politics. Support the show (https://www.ouramericanstories.com/donate)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode 53 of For The Thrill Podcast brings you Little Giant, an up-and-coming artist passionate about the origins of hip-hop. Hosted by Thrillz and co-hosted by Papi X Dinero, Little Giant shares insights into his journey at the age of 21, delving into past rap bgroups, the storytelling in his albums—featuring a dark and gore-filled narrative—and shedding light on his latest group, Iconaclast.

Beijing's industrial policy increasingly puts the focus on the cultivation of high-tech small and medium sized enterprises (SMEs). This MERICS Podcast episode looks at the emergence of China's “Little Giants,” as well as Beijing's goals, key policies, and implications for foreign companies. We also delve into developments in medical technologies, one of the key sectors outlined in the “Made in China 2025” strategy. Christine Krüger talks with MERICS analysts Alexander Brown and François Chimits. They are the co-authors of two MERICS reports on the topic: “Accelerator state: How China fosters ‘Little Giant' companies” and “Investigating state support for China's medical technology companies.”

In this episode of ClickFunnels Radio, Chris and Laura interview Doug Wing, the former VP of sales at Little Giant. Doug shares his fascinating story of how he helped grow the company to 200 million in annual revenue and became the third largest ladder company. He also talks about his new venture in real estate property management and his book, "Giant Success." Tune in to gain insights from Doug's wealth of experience and learn about his upcoming projects.

In this episode of the SCBWI Podcast, we are joined by Bobbito Garcia!NYC native Bobbito García is a visionary creative who has put an indelible footprint on multiple urban movements.During the 1990s, the legendary air personality was one-half of the “Stretch and Bobbito” program on WKCR. The duo introduced the world to an unsigned Nas, Biggie, and Wu-Tang, as well as an unknown Jay-Z, Eminem, and the Fugees. The total record sales for all the artists that premiered on their platform exceed 300 million. In 1998, the Source Magazine voted them as “The Best Hip Hop Radio Show of All Time,“ and in 2023, they were inducted into the NAB Radio Hall of Fame.As the progenitor of sneaker journalism, García penned his landmark Source article “Confessions of a Sneaker Addict” in 1990, then in 2003 became the critically acclaimed author of Where'd You Get Those? NYC's Sneaker Culture: 1960-1987 (Testify Books). In 2005, ESPN's “It's The Shoes” series, hosted by Bobbito, became the first show on the subject in broadcasting history. A founding member of the Kennedy Center's Hip Hop Culture Council and a 2018 Wesleyan University “Distinguished Alumni Award” recipient,  "Kool Bob Love” currently produces his b-ball tournament Full Court 21™ in four continents, co-produces Stretch & Bobbito + The M19s Band music, is a DJ/Host on Apple Music Hits' “Stretch and Bobbito Radio,“ and is the proud author of his first children's book titled Aim High, Little Giant, Aim High!www.koolboblove.comFollow Bobbito on Instagram @koolboblove Buy Aim High, Little Giant, Aim High! here: https://bookshop.org/p/books/aim-high-little-giant-aim-high-bobbito-garcia/20576498?aid=79539&ean=9798888901533&listref=books-i-ve-authored-c15b87e5-577b-482c-8763-8ef0ed6c1ac7&and check out his bookshop:https://bookshop.org/shop/koolbobloveRegister for the 2024 In-Person Conference Here: https://www.scbwi.org/events/scbwi-in-person-winter-conference-2024SCBWI on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/scbwi/SCBWI on Twitter: https://twitter.com/scbwiBecome an SCBWI member today: https://www.scbwi.org/join-scbwi/Shop the SCBWI Bookshop.org page: https://bookshop.org/shop/SCBWISupport the show

On this episode of Our American Stories, he was known as the Little Giant from Little Dixie. He would rise to become the Speaker of the House during the Watergate years. Hear his story of putting principle over politics. Support the show (https://www.ouramericanstories.com/donate)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today on the podcast I sync up with U.S Professional Tennis Player and Coach, Danielle Lao aka Little Giant on Instagram, avid runner and Hoka Ambassador. Danielle and I sync up about where her career in tennis began and how she has not put her professional tennis career on hold while coaching and pursuing her passion for running, which is fueling her for success! Danielle has won three singles titles and three doubles titles on the ITF Women's Circuit . She achieved a career-high singles ranking of 152 by the WTA on April 1, 2019 . Lao competed for the USC Trojans where she was a two-time All-American and team captain . She won the 2008 USTA National Open. Her current ranking: No. 409 (July 3, 2023) She has also competed in the Grand Slam singles Australian Open: Q3 (2019, 2020); French Open: Q1 (2018, 2019, 2021); Wimbledon: 1R (2021). In 2013, she co-authored a top-selling tennis book with Rick Limpert called The Invaluable Experience . In the book, Lao takes readers through her college tennis career and shows why playing a sport in college might be the best decision you could ever make. CONNECT Danielle Lao on Instagram Marni On The Move Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, or YouTube` Marni Salup on Instagram and Spotify SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER Sign up for our weekly newsletter, Do What Moves You, for Marni on the Move updates, exclusive offers, invites to events, and exciting news! SUPPORT THE PODCAST Leave us a review on Apple. It's easy, scroll through the episode list on your podcast app, click on five stars, click on leave a review, and share what you love about the conversations you're listening to. Tell your friends to what you love on social. Screenshot or share directly from our stories the episode you're listening to, tag us and the guests.

"I call her my Little Giant... volunteers, referees, other players -- they all love her!": Chilean-Canadian mother watches daughter at Pan Am Games; tutor reflects philosophically on updated LSATs.

When Nate Bennett and Thanat Tanachon first decided to open their martial arts facility, they wanted to shatter the misconception that martial arts is a violent and aggressive sport by revolving their business around building a community based on respect. Now, Little Giant is a 5-star business on Yelp with tons of glowing reviews. Reviewer Samantha N shares what sets Little Giant apart, and why she travels so far with her kids to be a part of their community. Little Giant Muay Thai More about the episode Theme Music by Ali Schwartz and Meserole Sound

When Nate Bennett and Thanat Tanachon first decided to open their martial arts facility, they wanted to shatter the misconception that martial arts is a violent and aggressive sport by revolving their business around building a community based on respect. Now, Little Giant is a 5-star business on Yelp with tons of glowing reviews. Reviewer Samantha N shares what sets Little Giant apart, and why she travels so far with her kids to be a part of their community. Theme Music by  and

In this episode, Josh and Corey sit down with Brandon Lehman, a musician and event producer. They explore Brandon's musical journey, from his first guitar to handling hecklers on stage. They delve into the performer's mindset and discuss Little Giant, a unique facility that started as a rehearsal space and evolved into a vibrant hub for music, teaching, and community engagement. They touch on the challenges of creating such spaces in Pittsburgh and the art of balancing passions. Join them for a condensed yet insightful look at music, entrepreneurship, and realizing creative dreams. Follow Brandon and Little Giant at the links below to learn more. https://www.instagram.com/itsbrandonlehman/ https://www.littlegiant.io/ Don't miss out on the chance to follow Corey's exciting journey by clicking on the links provided! ⁠https://www.instagram.com/muve_78/⁠ ⁠https://linktr.ee/1028podcast_studio⁠ Make sure to stay connected by following Josh, PGH Print Ship, as well as Thoughtful Discussions for more captivating content! https://www.instagram.com/joshsnider86/ https://www.instagram.com/pghprintship/ https://www.instagram.com/thoughtfuldiscussions/ Or visit PGHPrintShip.com today! Thumbnail Photo Credit: @patfrancart on IG

This episode features the quarterback for the Little Giant football team, Liam Thompson '24, discussing his relationship with the Manning family, being coached by Don Morel, and how Wabash is a place in which you can't skate by (Episode 345).

One of Hip Hop's most beloved radio hosts, authors, and directors joins Ali to talk about his new children's book, “Aim High, Little Giant, Aim High”. You can find Bobbito's new book here: https://wearelittlegiants.com/products/aim-high-little-giant-aim-high-by-bobbito-garcia This episode is sponsored by Zakat Foundation and BetterHelp. To get 10% off your first month of therapy, visit www.betterhelp.com/travelers  To hear episodes early and ad-free, plus get access to exclusive music, videos, speeches, and bonus content by Brother Ali: https://www.brotherali.com/join  Buy Travelers Podcast merchandise: https://www.brotheralistore.com/collections/travelers-podcast

Welcome to the "Go Big to Give Big" podcast with Randy Molland and Steve Arneson! In this episode, we discuss the inspiring power of giving with Doug Wing. Doug has over 40 years of experience in manufacturing, operations, sales, sales leadership, and executive management. He was a Co-owner and Vice Chairman at Little Giant Ladder Systems, helping grow the company to become the 3rd largest ladder company worldwide with over $200 million in annual sales revenue. In his last 5 years at Little Giant, he oversaw the cable and telecom industry, generating over $150 million in sales. With 45 years of service alongside family members, Doug retired in 2019 and co-founded Boar Investment Group in 2020, focusing on multi-family real estate and property management. He is also an active board member of The Honoring Heroes Foundation, supporting fallen police officers and their families. In addition, Doug has completed two missions for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.With his wife and two daughters.In this episode, Doug shares his story of how his father, Hal Wing, built Little Giant Ladders into a multi-million-dollar company that is renowned for its company culture. Doug, and his brother, took the reins after their father's passing and continue to build on the success of their father's unique combination of product innovation and human connection. Doug discusses how his father taught them the values of quality, truthfulness, integrity, and ethics, which he has carried into his own life. We learn about Ryan, an employee Hal saw potential in and groomed for success who eventually moved on to investing in multi-family housing and real estate with his friend as well as starting his own business. Doug talks about having meaningful relationships, taking risks, and giving back - something that was instilled in him by his parents. He also shares stories of generosity, including donating two classic vehicles in an auction that raised $120,000 for scholarships. [00:00 - 14:52] Little Giant Steps: Doug's Journey into Success• Doug Wing and his family created the company Little Giant Ladders, which has achieved over 200 million a year in revenue.• Doug is now a big philanthropist, speaking in schools and giving away books and sitting on boards of nonprofits.• Doug's dad, Hal Wing, was a great salesman who discovered the prototype of the Little Giant Ladder in Germany.• Doug's dad had a huge heart and cared deeply for people, showing genuine interest in them.[14:52 - 37:16] A Mentor Who Led by Example• Doug shares the stories that made Hal, his dad, the mentor and leading example in his life, and why he was the person who changed this life.• Hal had Doug and his brother learn every aspect of the company to prepare them for taking over the business.• Doug's dad's core principles included selling with truth, integrity, and ethical honesty• Hal was gifted at seeing people's potential and placing them in the right roles. [37:16 – 42:40] New Paths and New Horizons• Doug and his brother sold the company due to a lack of interest from their sons. Then, got involved in multi-family housing before leaving Little Giant.• After selling Little Giant, he started a new company with his friend and partnered with multiple businesses such as ax throwing, escape keep, and a restaurant.• Doug shares his favorite giving moments and why giving is crucial in his life.[42:40 – 49:09] Quick Questions• What's your favorite thing about speaking to schools?:• Doug's favorite part of speaking to schools is inspiring students by boosting their confidence and self-belief. He advises them to pursue their passions and find meaningful work, emphasizing the joy that comes from doing what they love.• What would get you more excited? Donating a $1 million check or spending a week physically helping others: A week physically helping others.• Who inspires you with their giving? Jon Huntsman Jr.• What is the first thing you think of when you hear Go Big to Give Big: “You don't have to have a lot of money to give big. You can still give big with service and with just helping people.”• In one word, describe the feeling you get when you give: Fulfillment• Do you believe that money can buy you happiness: Doug firmly believed that money couldn't buy happiness. He knew wealthy individuals who were unhappy and saw that true happiness came from sources beyond material wealth.[49:09 – 52:02] Closing Segment• Reach out to Dougo See the links below • Final words Tweetable Quotes “Find something that you really love and care about, and you have passion about, and do that. Because if you do that, you'll never work a day in your life.” – Doug Wing_____________________________________________________________________Connect with Doug by following him on LinkedIn and Instagram or by checking his websites https://www.dougwing.com/ and https://www.giantsuccess.com/CONNECT WITH US! Join our Facebook Group LIKE, SHARE, AND SUBSCRIBE! Listen to the Go Big To Give Big Podcaston different platforms. Apple Podcast Amazon Music Spotify Castro For more information, you may visit:gobigtogivebig.comhttps://thereinvestors.caAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Tonight`s Jazz Feature honors the Birthday Anniversary of John Arnold ``Johnny`` Griffin 111 who was born on April 24,1928 in Chicago and died from a heart attack at his home on Mauprevoir, France on July 28,2008. He played his last gig on July 21, 2008 at age 80, so he was playing right up to the end. This album was considered one of his finest under his name at the time and was recorded in New York in August 1959. Rather than a quartet date or a jam type date this one was well planned. Norman Simmons, a wonderful pianist/composer arranger also from Chicago scored the date and brought in 3 of his tunes as well. It was a sextet date with Richard ``Blue`` Mitchell on trumpet, Julian Priester on trombone, Wynton Kelly on piano, Sam jones on bass and Albert ``Tootie`` Heath on drums.``The Little Gian`` stands the test of time and is tonight`s Jazz Feature. Happy Birthday Anniversary Johnny!

Andrew "Roo" Panes is an English folk singer and songwriter who made quite a few heads turn with his debut album 'Little Giant' (2014) and the follow up 'Paperweights' (2016). His introspective and soulful songs have amassed millions of plays and have been featured in TV shows. His latest album is 'The Summer Isles', his fourth full-length album, and we spoke with Roo about the album, painting forests, authenticity in songwriting, how to spend your time on earth, the song Suburban Pines and how he met his wife, and a lot more! Interview by: Robin HignellSupport the showThank you for listening! For more interviews with your favorite artists visit the FaceCulture YouTube channel.

Dr. Blake first met Samuel as the hatchling tortoise left its nest on the Galapagos Islands. A tiny tracking tag helped Stephen and his team track the little guy as he legged it away from his nest site, navigating the harsh volcanic landscape in search of safety and some edible foliage. Eight years later Samuel has grown to over 15 pounds and survived the most dangerous period of his life, which now could stretch on over the next century and beyond.

For this episode of Randomly Selected, we sit down with the legendary Bobbito Garcia! We talk about everything from his origins in the basketball and sneaker communities and his impact on Hip Hop all the way to his current endeavors as an author of the children's book "AIM HIGH, LITTLE GIANT, AIM HIGH"! Robert "Bobbito" Garcia (born September 25, 1966), also known as DJ Cucumber Slice and Kool Bob Love, is an American DJ, author, streetball player, streetball coach, and member of the Rock Steady Crew. He is known as a former co-host of hip hop radio show The Stretch Armstrong and Bobbito Show, alongside Adrian "Stretch Armstrong" Bartos, from 1990 until 1999. In 2015, Showtime premiered a feature-length documentary on Stretch and Bobbito: Radio That Changed Lives, directed and written by Garcia. The film includes interviews with Jay-Z, Nas, Eminem, Common, Fat Joe, Rosie Perez and DJ Premier, among others. In 2018, Garcia released his third documentary, Rock Rubber 45s. It serves as his most personal film to date. You don't want to miss this one!

For The Thrill Podcast Episode 38 Featuring Automatic Prophet, Little Giant and Civil Loner; artist of the CleanNnasty brand. On this podcast we discuss their CleanNnasty origin stories, music careers, previous and upcoming projects, and more #ForTheThrill #CleanNnasty #MusicIsTherapy --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/for-the-thrill-podcast/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/for-the-thrill-podcast/support

We are joined this week by “Little Giant”a 20 year old upcoming underground artist from San Antonio, Texas trying to get his name out there. He's been dropping since 2018 on SoundCloud but just recently in 2022 he started dropping music on all streaming platforms and just recently dropped a new album called “Thoughts Of A Tormented Mind”. Join us live for the spotlight and news & notes and the usual craziness. #whattheshitpodcast #BIZboost #opulenceradio #news #entertainment #creativecontent #blackcreators #blackpodcastnetwork #blackpodcast

We are joined this week by “Little Giant”a 20 year old upcoming underground artist from San Antonio, Texas trying to get his name out there. He's been dropping since 2018 on SoundCloud but just recently in 2022 he started dropping music on all streaming platforms and just recently dropped a new album called “Thoughts Of A Tormented Mind”. Join us live for the spotlight and news & notes and the usual craziness. #whattheshitpodcast #BIZboost #opulenceradio #news #entertainment #creativecontent #blackcreators #blackpodcastnetwork #blackpodcast

Chicago born John Arnold Griffin 111 is better known as simply Johnny or in some cases "The Little Giant." Griffin was and is one of the major voices of the tenor saxophone. He emigrated to New York in late 1956 and was soon causing musical excitement in the Big Apple. He recorded his first Blue Note album and it was getting lots of play and in early 1957 he joined Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers. He was doing sideman record dates as well. Tonight's Jazz Feature is his second Blue Note date and it's basically a jam type date with long tunes and plenty of solo time for all. Griffin requested this and it was agreed upon by Blue Note boss Alfred Lion. Griffin picked the young trumpet sensation still in his teens, Lee Morgan. Hank Mobley and John Coltrane were his other tenor saxophone partners. The rhythm section was powerful with Wynton Kelly on piano, Paul Chambers on bass and Griffin's boss, Art Blakey on drums. Two standard tunes were played and two Griffin originals comprised the date and everyone had a chance on all of these tunes to show their stuff. Unlike many blowing jam type sessions, the level was top notch on this one. This is Jazz at it's best.....in other words: the real deal! A Blowin' Session, tonight's Jazz Feature.

As the holidays approach and schools close for the winter break, all week we are joined by authors of recently released children's books. Today, we speak with author Bobbito Garcia, a born and raised New Yorker, hip-hop radio host, filmmaker, and pickup basketball enthusiast. His book is called Aim High, Little Giant, Aim High!, which tells the story of 9 year old Taína, a Brooklyn kid who starts practicing basketball, and learns some valuable lessons along the way.

Don your trenchcoats and cynical outlooks on life: it's Noirvember! To get started we're talking about a Nick favourite, Robert Altman's neo-noir from 1973, The Long Goodbye.We're swooning over Elliott Gould's portrayal as the world's coolest loser, Arnold Schwarzenegger's tiny moustache, John Williams' music (singular), and how this movie leverages its unique cinematography to deconstruct the noir subgenre. Plus, Erin teaches us about movie cats!Next week we're going back to basics with the birth of the subgenre itself with Billy Wilder's Double Indemnity (1944)!Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @GartbagePod

Andrew Alexander is back and I'm grateful for it. Last week I had to end the episode in a panic because the service we used said after an hour: “You have 5 minutes of recording time left before the recording stops”. Needless to say I was disappointed. And panicked. So I ended it abruptly with my guest Andrew Alexander just as we were getting warmed up. AA is a gem. I asked if he wanted to suffer though another episode with me and he was happy to give it another shot. And it was worth it. Usually sequels never live up to the hype; not this time. We picked up exactly where we left off, talking about anvils and blacksmithing. We discussed how marketing and advertising created the brand Little Giant and some of its history and what point in history did blacksmithing go mainstream. Then Andrew turned the tables on me and started interviewing me. It was a great conversation and i'm so glad we got another shot at it. Thanks again Andrew for your flexibility and good humor. I appreciate it. - GF Follow Andrew on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/blacksmithtools/ Follow Full Blast and interact with the show on Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/thefullblastpodcast/Please subscribe, leave a review and tell your friends about the show. it helps me out a lot! Welcome back Trojan Horse Forge Get your THF Stabile Rail knife finishing vise at https://www.trojanhorseforge.com/And when you use the promo code “FULLBLAST” you'll get free shipping in the USFollow them on instagram:https://www.instagram.com/trojan_horse_forge/ TotalBoatAdhesives, paints, primers and polishing compounds.Go to https://www.totalboat.com/And put in “Fullblast10” for 10% off Go get yourself some all natural , food safe Axe WaxGo to https://axewax.us/And get 10% off with promocode: FULLBLAST10Welcome Maritime Knife Supply!MARITIME KNIFE SUPPLIESMaritimeknifesupply.CAAll your knifemaking needs, belts abrasive, steals, kilns forges presses, heat treating ovens anvils and everything you need to get started or resupply. Including AxewaxThey're in Canada but ship to the US with ease and you can take advantage of the exchange rate The steel selection is always growing and Lawrence just got 3900 lbs. of steel in.10% off on abrasive belt packs of 10 get a hold of https://www.instagram.com/maritimeknifesupply/ and see what the fuss is about.Brodbeck Ironworks Makers of an Incredibly versatile grinder, with Many different attachmentsLeather sewing equipment and even abrasives Go to Brodbeckironworks.com put in promo code Knifetalk and get the upgrade to the Mareko platen. Get your Blacksmith hammers from John Erianne akahttps://www.instagram.com/sunsetforgenj/http://sunsetforgenj.com/new-productsGo look at the course curriculum at CMA:https://centerformetalarts.org/workshops/** Taking classes from some of the best in forging at one of the best facilities in the country is an excellent opportunity to propel yourself as a blacksmith. Not to be missed. And with housing on the campus it's a great way to get yourself to the next level. Visit CMA's website:https://centerformetalarts.org/***DON'T MISS THE CAMBRIA CONFERENCE SEPTEMBER 17TH! Tap here for details: https://centerformetalarts.org/cambria-iron-conference-2/There are still spots available for my next Forged Friction Folder workshop at CMASept 3 & 4th:https://centerformetalarts.org/product/friction-folder/Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In this week's podcast, Ginnie Graham and Bob Doucette talk about recent shootings during Fourth of July celebrations. With election season upon us, it is important to ask candidates questions about this safety issue. Related content: Red flags missed: How July 4 suspect slipped through system Editorial: TPS offers students an early start at getting into aviation workforce Editorial: New TPS program holds possibilities for better results for students facing trauma D.C. Digest: Secretary of the Interior Deb Haaland to begin 'Road' in western Oklahoma Throwback Tulsa: Watergate scandal thrust ‘Little Giant' into spotlight Contact us Editorial Editor Ginnie Graham: Email | Twitter | Follow her stories Editorial Writer Bob Doucette: Email | Twitter | Follow his stories Click here to submit a letter to the editorSupport the show: https://tulsaworld.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

One day, Hinata Shouyou overheard a tv broadcast of a high school volleyball tournament that proclaimed a "Little Giant" was dominating the game due to having mad ups to compensate for his short stature. Hinata, being a shorty himself, spent his middle school career developing these mad ups and played a single game in his middle school volleyball career. Now going to school with his former rival (and maybe potential love interest) Kageyama Tobio, Hinata is trying to become a star player for Karasuno High School. This week Matt, Jae, Jacob, and special guest Kendra, read and discuss Haikyuu!! by Haruichi Furudate.Like our guest Kendra? You can hear more from her at the following:Twitter: @sniperofmyheartHost of My Hero Academia PodcastCohost of The View From the TopRead along, meme along, or just yell at our bad opinions by following @OverMangaCast on Twitter.YouTube / Instagram / FacebookLeave a review: Podchaser

If you want to learn what it's like to build a massively successful business from the ground up, then you're not going to want to miss this week's episode of The Alden Report where I'm very happy to welcome entrepreneur, author, business consultant and speaker Doug Wing. Doug has a unique background that includes every area of business while helping to nurture and grow a very successful business and team to the worldwide category leader that it is today.Doug learned the value of hard work and the importance of family at a very young age while watching and then working alongside his father, Hal Wing, who founded and grew the company Little Giant Ladder Systems into the category leader that it is today. Doug watched his father take a design and an idea and build The Little Giant Ladder Company literally from the ground up, selling the product himself and in-person to customers big and small all over the country. His father instilled in Doug his belief system, his commitment to excellence and his thirst for innovation as he built a firm foundation for the company based on strong work ethic, professional integrity and belief in people that made Little Giant the household name that it is. Before retiring as a co-owner and vice chairman at Little Giant Ladder Systems, Doug accumulated more than 40 years of experience in manufacturing, operations, sales, sales leadership and executive management. Today, Doug is a co-founder of the real estate rentals and property management company Boar Investment Group and serves on the board of directors of The Honoring Heroes Foundation, a charitable organization that helps fallen police officers and their families. Also an author, Doug expounds on the growth and success of the Little Giant Ladder company in his latest book GIANT SUCCESS: Leadership And Business Strategies Of Hal Wing Founder Of Little Giant Ladders which is available now everywhere. Thank you so much to Doug Wing for joining us this week on The Alden Report.  For more information on Doug, you can visit: https://www.dougwing.com/ and https://www.giantsuccess.com/Thank you to this episode's sponsor: Wicked Happy – Apparel To Make You Smile The way we live our lives depends on our outlook. Wicked Happy designs apparel to make people smile because they want to make you Wicked Happy.Use code MIKEALDEN at checkout for 15% off of your first order.www.wickedhappy.com

On this feast of St. Athanasius, Cale talks about how this great saint became the chief defender of Orthodoxy and the divinity of Christ at the Council of Nicaea.

Doug Wing began working at Little Giant building ladders when he was just 10 years old. Growing up with Hal as a father gave Doug a foundation of faith, persistence, service and a love of all things fast, of course. He used that foundation to help build the brand and lead the sales team at Little Giant. He has more than 40 years of experience in manufacturing, operations, sales, sales leadership, and executive management. Today, Doug carries on the legacy of Hal in his service to his church, his charity work, and in his business ventures. He is the author of Giant Success a book detailing how Hal Wing achieved worldwide acclaim, taking The Little Giant Ladder Company from his garage to the top of an already well-established category with his vision, innovation, commitment to quality, integrity, work ethic, and gumption. Here's What We Cover It takes a long time and a lot of effort to build a strong company Treat your people like family The challenge of finding the right people Hire by attitude and work ethic Waiting too long in letting someone go Lead with heart If it's not a good deal for everyone at the table, it's not a good deal People are your most important asset in any company Most companies have strategies written on a wall and never visited again You can tell customers anything you want to as long as it's the truth If you concentrate on building the business and not the man you will not succeed, but if you concentrate on building the man, you will build both Connect With Doug https://www.dougwing.com/ (Website) https://www.facebook.com/doug.wing.98 (Facebook) https://www.linkedin.com/in/doug-wing-a792168/ (LinkedIn)

Franklin Electric Business Unit Trainer Jeremiah Brodie joins us to discuss how he joined the PHCP industry, Little Giant's "Train the Trainer" philosophy, and the company's current training opportunities — including the FranklinTECH virtual learning platform and mobile training facilities.Little Giant produces pumping solutions for HVAC contractors and plumbing professionals. Learn more about the Franklin Electric brand at www.littlegiant.com.

Great interview with Ryan Moss, CEO of Little Giant Ladders!Ryan has such an amazing story of starting at the bottom and climbing his way to the top of one of the most recognized brands in the world!

I am really excited about this interview with Kenyan & Kristy from Little Giant Ladders. They make the safest, and most versatile ladders. They were nice enough to talk about the company's history, success, how they keep their employees happy, and ladder safety.Here's where you can find them: https://www.littlegiantladders.com/https://www.instagram.com/littlegiantladders/https://twitter.com/littlegianthttps://www.facebook.com/littlegiantladders

Craig sits down with Ryan Moss the CEO of Little Giant Ladder Systems. When Ryan started with Little Giant Ladders 37 years ago he started out sweeping floors and being part of the manufacturing team. Craig and Ryan discuss the growth of the business and how Ryan has climbed the ladder up to the role he is in today. Action Items: Access our FREE Resources Subscribe to The Biz Sherpa Newsletter Follow The Biz Sherpa on LinkedIn Follow The Biz Sherpa on Instagram Follow the Biz Sherpa Facebook Page Subscribe to The Biz Sherpa Youtube Channel Subscribe to The Biz Sherpa Podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast or Stitcher. Connect with Craig on LinkedIn TRANSCRIPTION: Speaker 1: From his first job flipping burgers at McDonald’s and delivering The Washington Post, Craig Willett counts only one and a half years of his adult life working for someone else. Welcome to The Biz Sherpa podcast with your host, Craig Willett. Founder of several multimillion-dollar businesses and trusted advisor to other business owners, he’s giving back to help business owners and aspiring entrepreneurs achieve fulfillment, enhance their lives, and create enduring wealth. The Biz Sherpa. Craig Willett: This is Craig Willett, The Biz Sherpa. I’m glad you could join me today. I’m in Springville, Utah with Little Giant Ladder Systems. I’m grateful that they are friends of mine and that they would allow me to come to their offices today. I have the opportunity to visit with Ryan Moss, who’s the CEO of Little Giant Ladder Systems. I think you’ll find some insights here that will be good for each of us to think about. Ryan has a different path to business ownership than a lot of people and he has a lot of innovative background. I think he’ll be an inspiration to those who will take the time to watch the entire video today. Welcome, Ryan. Ryan Moss: Thanks, Craig. Appreciate you having me on. Craig Willett: This is a great opportunity for me. Not everyone that’s a business owner started out the way you did. When you started with Little Giant Ladders, how many employees were there? Ryan Moss: Boy, there weren’t very many at that time. There might have been—oh, probably 35, maybe 40 on the outside, but really not that many. Craig Willett: What was your initial role with the company? Ryan Moss: I actually started in manufacturing. I tease a little bit that I started at $4.50 an hour, and I just recently got a raise to $5.00, but anyway—yeah, I started in manufacturing. I was punching rung and bending channel, sweeping floors, and just part of the manufacturing process. Craig Willett: How many years ago was that? Ryan Moss: We’re coming up on 37 years now. Craig Willett: Wow. That’s quite a bit of time with the company. I think that says probably a lot to why you’re still here, your dedication. With 35 employees, you saw a lot of different things happen. In the history of Wing Enterprises or Little Giant Ladder Systems, I know the company was sold by the family at one point. You were working with the company then, weren’t you—when they sold it? Ryan Moss: I was, yeah. It was sold to a company by the name of Technical Equities. There was kind of I guess a shady group that was running that or at least an individual that ended up causing some trouble with that company, and ultimately, its demise. Because of all that, Hal Wing, who was the original founder of Little Giant Ladders, went back and bought all the assets of Little Giant and started over again. Craig Willett: You were with him through that transition. Ryan Moss: I was. Craig Willett: What role did you play in the restart of Little Giant Ladders? Ryan Moss: I had only been with the company for two years, still in manufacturing when all of that took place. As Hal bought back the assets and opened a facility here in Springville, I was made the shop foreman, which was kind of terrifying. I was pretty young at the time. I was 23 years old and a lot of the guys working for me were double my age. Anyway, Hal saw something in me that maybe I didn’t see in myself, I don’t know, but he gave me the opportunity to be the shop foreman over this new facility. Craig Willett: What did you do with those responsibilities once you got comfortable and settled into the major task ahead of you? Ryan Moss: I think for me, really the way to understand how to be a good leader was to get right in with those people that were working on the line. I got involved in the challenges that we were facing in producing—at that time, we were producing hinges and ladders for hinges and that type of thing, and really got involved in what does it take to build these and what are the challenges? I used to maybe have a different view of I’m just making this stuff, and I didn’t really care so much about what the challenges were that were involved, but in a leadership role, then it’s, well, what challenges are we having as far as getting materials or being able to produce enough on time and those type of things. It really changed my perspective by getting closer to the guy on the line to really understand what challenges he was having, and then how could I help him. Craig Willett: Where did you learn this leadership? I mean, you didn’t have—did you have a formal education in leadership? Ryan Moss: Actually, no. I have a high school diploma, and at that, maybe—I often say an 11th grade education because my senior year was spent in all gym classes. Craig Willett: You aced everything else through the 11th grade, and you could just play. Ryan Moss: Yeah, I didn’t really—I did have to have one English credit, of which I took Spanish for that. Anyway, formal education, I really don’t have much anything past high school. I do read a lot, but I will tell you that I was blessed with good parents that provided a lot of opportunities for me to work. Small farm and lots of things to do, and I was really engaged from a young age at taking care of responsibilities that I had on a small farm. I give a lot of credit to my parents for making sure that I knew how to work and how to problem solve. Craig Willett: You were able to take those hard working attributes and problem solve, take it to the shop floor and figure out where the snags or difficulties were to make it more effective. Ryan Moss: Yeah. Craig Willett: When next did you capture the attention of Hal Wing—who by the way, is the founder of this company—how did you take what you were learning on the shop floor and take it to him as the owner and president of the company? Ryan Moss: I think I captured his attention early on. I was recommended by Jeff Dinsdale, who at the time was over manufacturing, to fill that shop foreman role. It was early on where we were having some challenges in meeting some demand and, as we were trying to resolve some of those supply challenges, I had come across a couple of large containers of parts that had been set aside. Potentially—I can’t remember if it was for quality issues or some type of issues. Anyway, we went through all of those and were able to glean enough good parts to be able to supply the demand. That got back to Hal, and he came out and talked to me about that. Really, it was one of those early experiences that really kind of caught his eye, and he said, “I just don’t think we’ve seen that kind of approach before.” I think we really thought a lot alike in problem solving and in work ethic and hustle and ingenuity. We just saw a lot of things eye to eye. We became friends over the years, but I think mostly because we shared similar values. Craig Willett: That’s interesting. Elon Musk recently was quoted as saying that we have too many MBAs in the world. We need people who can set aside the financial statements and learn to innovate and do that. You mentioned that you and Hal probably bonded or found common ground on ingenuity and innovation, so not only solving that on the shop floor; I sat in board meetings where I saw you present new product, inventions that you came up with. What role did some of the innovations that you have come up with—or that your team has come up with, because I know you won’t take the credit, you’re too humble, but I’ll attribute it to you, so I can embarrass you for a minute, but— Ryan Moss: Well, you’re going to. Craig Willett: I know the truth. You can’t pull the wool over my eyes on that one, but I know that through your innovation, there were probably periods of time where the company being kind of a one ladder, one-trick pony, it became something more than that. Maybe tell us a little bit about that, some inflection point in the company where your ability to innovate, and where there were demands and other opportunities for your ladders to fill other markets than what you were penetrating at the time. How do you go about that? Ryan Moss: Sure. Maybe I can answer this with a little bit of a story, a little bit of history because— Craig Willett: I’d love to hear a story. Ryan Moss: You mentioned us being a one-trick pony. I specifically recall a time, in fact, I will never forget the time where many of us were around a conference room table in the old Springville facility, and we were having a meeting. I’m not sure about what. Somebody brought in a USA Today newspaper and spread it out and laid it out on the conference room table. There was a full page ad of an identical replica of our product. Now, we had really one product in a few sizes. It was the aluminum articulating ladder, and they showed this product, it said, “Now available at Home Depot for $199.” Now, we sold that product and were the originator of that product at $400 or $399, so it was exactly half the price. You can imagine the gut shot that took place in that conference room. The ripple went through the company. We later learned that this company that had this replica of our product went to the home and garden shows, bought the ladder from our salesmen, sent it to China, told them to copy it identically, to not change anything. In fact, they copied it so closely that you could interchange the parts from our ladders and their ladders. That’s how close everything was. Craig Willett: Same kind of materials or different materials? Ryan Moss: Similar materials, but they even copied the die lines from the extruders. They didn’t know why they were copying things, but die lines are identification marks from extruders, and they even copied those. Here we had this kind of gut shot that ran through the company, and we had salesmen saying, “I’ll never be able to sell another ladder again. How long are we going to be able to hold on? Are we going to make it? I’ve got a mortgage and kids to put through college and food on the table. Should I start looking for a new job?” You can imagine there was some time that was really concerning for the company. We had a couple of different meetings on what can we do. Ultimately, proposed to do an infomercial. Now, anybody that knows Little Giant’s history today say, “Yeah, that was genius,” well, I think we were blessed because what we know about infomercials today is only one out of a hundred work. When we say work, that means that they maybe broke even, but drove some retail sales. Ours was wildly successful. Well, let me backup for just a second. Hal wasn’t quite sure, like what is this infomercial thing, how is it going to work? We talked about it a few times and he finally said, “Okay, let’s do this,” because there was two years left on the patents, so we could either fight legally, but in the end, if we win, we lose because— Craig Willett: Because the patents expire anyway. Ryan Moss: —the patent would be expired at that point or take a different approach. The infomercial was the other approach. Craig Willett: The infomercial idea was so that you could capture the market as the innovator, the original. Ryan Moss: Really, yeah. Just to be the original because we weren’t in big boxes, so it was going to look the other way around that this one, this knockoff was in Home Depot, was the original, and we’re this little company copying. You have to think about it, this was all in 2000 and the end of 2002-2003. We had had the twin towers go down in 2001, so the economy was going down. We had had a 20% drop in sales at that time, and then we have this knockoff. Craig Willett: Price competition. Yeah. Ryan Moss: Boy, it was tough. We didn’t have the money to fight legally or to really do anything else, and Hal had a little farm down here in Springville, went to the bank and he leveraged—he bet the farm on this infomercial. Borrowed a million dollars and we went to work, spent about eight months putting that all together. There was a whole new excitement in this company that we’re going to shout to the world that we’re the original, we’re the best, made in America, all those kinds of things. Craig Willett: Right. Take pride in your products and let everybody know what it is. Ryan Moss: Let everyone know and it was going to be this branding exercise. Anyway, we got all ready, did the first spot. Craig Willett: You didn’t know that very few were successful. Ryan Moss: We had no idea. We had no idea statistically that we were in a rough way as far as… more than likely you would lose the money and your effort would be nothing kind of thing. We didn’t know that. Craig Willett: Because you didn’t really have a retail outlet to sell. Ryan Moss: When we did our first airing, although it was a small test airing, everybody’s waiting for those results. We get them at the end of the day, and had run, after a million dollars and eight months in time, we had received four phone calls and sold one ladder. Craig Willett: Wow. Ryan Moss: Another gut shot hit, and it was like, “Oh, wow, we spent all this money and all this time, and we sold one ladder.” As you can imagine, all the emotions came back again. How long are we going to be able to hold on? We’re not going to make it. Fortunately, we had some good people helping us with the infomercial and they said, “A 25% close rate is pretty good.” We said, “Yeah, but it’s only four phone calls.” Craig Willett: Got to look at the sample base. Ryan Moss: They helped us out. When we talk about innovation, innovation isn’t always just product. It’s innovation in going into the market in different ways. The one thing we did know over the many years we had been demonstrating ladders is when we demonstrate to people, we sell, and an infomercial is a bigger group of people. We thought, well we have to. We did go buy the— Craig Willett: Your demonstration experience prior to this had been trade shows. Ryan Moss: Trade shows, home and garden shows, state fairs— Craig Willett: County fairs. Ryan Moss: —those kind of things. We were a small company, didn’t have a lot of money to do what we were about to embark on, but- Craig Willett: What were your sales like in that— Ryan Moss: At that time, we were—gosh, we had slumped from about 20 million down to around 17 and a half million because the economy was in a recession at that time, so we were small. Here’s what happened. We went and made some changes and the world turned around for us. We grew by 600% that year. The next year we grew by another 500%, so you can imagine in two years’ time going from 17 and a half million to 170 million. Doing that all in a little, teeny facility. I remember that time all too well because I was over manufacturing at that time. I was in operations, and we went around the clock. Went from building 280 ladders a day to 7000 ladders a day— Craig Willett: Wow. Ryan Moss: —all in that same tiny, little facility. We were blessed. It was wildly, wildly successful. Craig Willett: You say you were blessed, and I can understand what you may mean by that because having served on the board of the company at one point, Hal would start board meetings with prayer. I know he was a God-fearing man, believed in God, and I can understand that that blessing comes from Him, but I also understand you have to work to receive the blessing. What about the innovation, what about your demonstration, because you guys were expert demonstrators, why did that appeal in your opinion in the infomercial market? Ryan Moss: Well, first of all, I think one of the things that really helped was we had Hal as our host, and he had a lot of passion for the product. You do mention, we still today start our management meetings with prayer, and we believe that we do have to work hard and do our part, but a little help from beyond has also helped to get us where we’re at today and will help us to get there in the future. I think we applied a work ethic and let’s call it the leap of faith in about everything that we’ve been able to accomplish. Craig Willett: This was the time in Hal’s life to—his biggest sales moment probably ever. Ryan Moss: Yeah. Craig Willett: Other than this first one when he pulled up to the first show to demonstrate his ladder. Next to that, this was probably a very pinnacle moment for him to do the biggest sales pitch of his life. Ryan Moss: It absolutely was and- Craig Willett: I liked that he was all-in because he bet the farm, so he was not just feeling the pressure of that, but he had to prove that he was right. He had to believe in it. Ryan Moss: He was all-in. He risked—I mean, he would have given up the farm literally if it didn’t work out. It would have went back to the bank and that’s the passion of Hal. That came through in the infomercial. Of course, we had a great product, which also helps. Right? Craig Willett: Right. Ryan Moss: An innovative product that does a lot of things and that passion for showing and solving problems. Right? So here’s what happened. We had this great success, so sales went like this, but you also have to think about it, a very, very popular infomercial in which we still run the infomercial today, now almost 18 years later, which is another anomaly because they usually last, if they’re good, about 18 months. Now, we don’t run anywhere near as much media today as we used to. I mean, back then we were spending a million dollars a week on media, but we were selling. We drove sales to all types of retailers. In fact, we ended up selling our product in Home Depot, next to the knock off. Craig Willett: Wow. Ryan Moss: We were double the price, and we were incredibly successful in Home Depot even at double the price because of that media, because of that infomercial that really drove demand. Craig Willett: I love that. That’s really important. Often people ask questions about how to price your product, and so many people think they have to price to the lowest cost producer. When you have a superior product, and you’re the original, you have a lot of room. This tells me there’s a lot of flexibility and a lot of elasticity to be able to price. Ryan Moss: Well, and the ability to create value because I think a lot of times, people with their product don’t give it credit, if it’s an innovative product, credit for what it will really do. What they’re going to accomplish with that. If you think about somebody buying a quarter inch drill bit, they really don’t want a quarter inch drill bit. What they want is a quarter inch hole, and the reason they want a quarter inch hole is they’re going to put an anchor there and put a picture on the wall. Right? Craig Willett: Right. Ryan Moss: They really don’t care about the bit; they care about the picture being hung on the wall. We would take the opportunity to show people what they were going to accomplish with the ladder, not just what the ladder did. I think that’s that value of—creating value of what is it going to help you do? Craig Willett: It’s not a ladder is a ladder is a ladder. Ryan Moss: Right. Craig Willett: It’s this ladder does 27 or 32 different things. Ryan Moss: It’s the safest, strongest, most versatile ladder in the world, so there was value that was brought into it. That’s how we could sell for double the one that was right there next to it. Now, we also sold in interesting places. Right? Bed Bath and Beyond and Linens N Things. There was so much popularity that everybody wanted to sell it. Craig Willett: Wow. Ryan Moss: What happened, Craig is—what you would expect to happen—is in time, enough people had seen it and, of course, the interest starts to wane. We’d taken all of these sales for years and compressed them, which created this bell curve, but you know after you get to the top, where does it go? Craig Willett: Right. Ryan Moss: It starts coming down. Let me tell you, as we’re coming off and you start cutting back on media because you can’t afford to keep doing that, well, then the retailers start losing interest, so you’re losing infomercial sales, then retail sales. At this point then, 2008, we lost the general contractor, so it was kind of boom, boom, boom. We lost all of those, and— Craig Willett: 2008, because of the financial crisis? Ryan Moss: Because of the housing crisis. Right? Craig Willett: Yeah. Ryan Moss: All the general contractors are like, “I’m not building anything.” You know what I mean? People were giving houses away at that point. We had the whammy after whammy, you know, three of those in a row, and what we decided to do at that point was to innovate. We knew we had this one-trick pony, but we can’t just rely on that, especially where we’ve compressed many years of sales into a shorter period of time. Craig Willett: What were your sales about this period of time? I’m just trying to give people perspective. Ryan Moss: They start, I mean, from our high of 170-ish, boy, you go down into 2008 or 09, maybe got clear down to 40, so we never went back to where we were pre-infomercial because the one thing that did was brand us, but we went down a long, long ways. We had a choice. Do we hunker down and just ride out this or do we innovate and be ready to take market share when the economy turns around—which we knew it would, just not how long is it going to take. Craig Willett: Right. Ryan Moss: We decided to innovate, and I have an affinity for products. I love the innovation process, and have been blessed with the ability to see what could be in products and to listen to pain points and interpolate those into products. The best products solve pain points, but I will tell you we learned the hard way in innovation. This is what we’re going to do, this is our mantra, we’re going to innovate. We brought on some more marketing people and some engineers, and I worked specifically with this group to say, “Well, here we go. Let’s get going.” We had— Craig Willett: I’m curious to find out what you identified as the biggest pain point to go after the biggest potential— Ryan Moss: Well, I’ll tell you what our biggest pain point was initially was not listening to the customer. We spent two years and a lot of money—think about how far the sales had come down and this was part of our plan in innovating. We spent two years and a lot of money, and we created some really, really cool products that nobody wanted. Craig Willett: Oh, no. Okay. Ryan Moss: The reason being is we got ahead of ourselves. They were cool, they were innovative, but they weren’t solving anybody’s pain points. We learned the hard way on that. We had to step back and really analyze what is it that—why is it that we are innovating and what is it that we’re going to try to accomplish with— Craig Willett: At this point in your career, you’re leading this innovation team. Ryan Moss: Yeah. I was, at that time—so I was promoted from Chief Operations Officer to CEO in 2006, so— Craig Willett: In the middle of all this. Ryan Moss: It was in the middle of all that. That was actually one of the first big major decisions was, what are we going to do next? That was, let’s innovate, but also, I failed at it terribly because we didn’t listen to the customer. We just created—we just thought we could sit down and create innovative things, which we did, but there was a— Craig Willett: I’m glad you did that because normally, I have to ask people what their greatest failure is and what they learned from it, but you just told me what it is. Ryan Moss: It was an epic failure, absolutely epic failure. Here’s the thing that really helped get us going. During this time, after we’d had these failures, we started to realize, “Okay, wow we really need to get some people in here and talk about ladder usage and what pain points they have and what struggles and all those types of things, and really understand the end user.” We started to do that. We brought a lot of general contractors in here and we showed them some prototypes and things we were working on. Craig Willett: You’re looking for more industrial users, not retail users. Ryan Moss: Yeah. Yeah. We were focusing kind of on the industrial, so we brought them in, and we started listening and just talking and what challenges and what kind of things—and it started opening our minds to so many opportunities with ladders. At that time, I was on the board of the American Ladder Institute, today I’m the president of that group, which is made up of the North American ladder manufacturers. We weren’t really talking about the same things on this group that we were hearing from these contractors and safety professionals and all of those. I found it interesting because many of them started talking about ladder accidents and how these safety professionals would have to go to the families of somebody that was either killed or severely injured in a ladder accident. Ultimately, learned through this whole process, and I couldn’t believe that we weren’t talking about this in the American Ladder Institute, that there’s 2000 ladder accidents every day. Craig Willett: Wow. Ryan Moss: And a hundred disabilities from those accidents and a death every day. I thought, “How in the world could we be part of an industry that somehow finds this acceptable?” If it was the airline industry, there’d be Congressional hearings every day about how to solve this problem, but apparently since it’s ladders, it must be okay. I was just really, really surprised. We learned from these different professionals. At the same time, I’d been reading a book by Simon Sinek called Start With Why. It’s a fascinating book, highly recommend it to anybody in business. The premise is that people don’t buy what you do, they buy why you do it. I’m an all-in believer on that. In fact, I give a lot of credit to Simon Sinek for much of the success—he doesn’t know this, but the success we’ve had because that started us on a path. All of this is happening, and I finished the book and went to the rest of our management team, and I asked them to read it with me. Not literally sit down and read it. We made a weekly meeting where we’d read a couple chapters, get together, talk about it. Until we got done, we said, “We’re going to create our ‘Why.’” We got all the way through, and, “We’ve got it, guys, this is our ‘Why,’” and I’m going to be embarrassed to tell you what I thought it was— Craig Willett: Okay. Ryan Moss: —or what we thought it was, but I’m going to tell you. Craig Willett: I appreciate your honesty. Ryan Moss: I’m going to tell you. We get through the whole thing, and we say, “Okay, our ‘Why’ is chasing excellence.” Now, if you’ve read the book, you’d say, “That’s a terrible ‘Why.’” Right? Craig Willett: Right. Ryan Moss: It was, but we had all the justification in the world. Chasing, you’re doing things with speed and excellence is never obtainable, so you’re going to have these—you’re always going to be moving the bar up on your products. Today, I just cringe to think that we actually accepted that. Craig Willett: It’s inspirational, but not concrete enough to do anything measured. Right? Ryan Moss: Yeah. There’s really not—it just doesn’t feel good without some justification. Anyway, we go, “Okay, that’s our ‘Why,’ keep chasing excellence,” and a few weeks later I’m getting on a plane to come back to Utah. I get a phone call from Ted Hartman, who was our marketing coordinator at the time. He just says, “Hey, we can’t do it.” I said, “Can’t do what?” He’s like, “We can’t do the whole chasing excellence thing.” I said, “I’m so glad you called me because I feel the same way.” I said, “I don’t feel anything when we say it.” He’s like, “We don’t either, and we don’t get how to promote it or anything.” I said, “Super. Let’s read the book again.” So we all got together, we read the book again, we went through the whole exercise, and this time when we got done, when we said it, we felt that we had to have no rationalization. That was, our ‘Why’ was preventing injuries and saving lives. Craig Willett: I took a picture in your boardroom of that on the wall this morning. I thought, “Okay, this is the ‘Why.’” Ryan Moss: I will tell you it was a reinvigorating turning point for Little Giant Ladders because you think about it. Now we don’t just get up to build ladders to sell ladders. We get up to get the one guy home tonight to play soccer with his kids or go to his daughter’s piano recital or take his wife out on a date. That’s what we do. We do it through better climbing equipment, so it now drove all the decision making in innovation. We’re not going to innovate anything unless it helps to prevent an injury and save a life. Right? It has to make the product safer. Craig Willett: It’s interesting that you did this by not being sued by someone forcing you to do it. Ryan Moss: No, no, no, no. Craig Willett: Usually, a lot of this comes when— Ryan Moss: We actually have very, very low incident rates with our products, so— Craig Willett: Probably did from the beginning. Ryan Moss: Oh, from the beginning. It’s been inherent in our design and quality and all of that. But we realized that by having this “Why,” it could lead our innovation, but not just that, everything we do in the company. There’s signs out in the facility that says, “Every rivet, every weld, every person matters.” Those building the product knowing that, “Hey, people are going to climb this,” and understanding that—I don’t want to say that we embrace those statistics, but we kind of did. That 2000 injuries a day, a hundred disabilities. We just said, let’s not shy away from this. Let’s embrace it and see if we can lower it. It invigorated the company, and now, everybody comes to work knowing, hey, we’re just trying to get that one guy home at night that might not come home. That’s our “Why.” The way we— Craig Willett: How did that translate into sales then? Ryan Moss: Oh, the thing that was—so think about that beacon to product innovation, and then taking those innovative products back to these safety professionals that came here or the ones that we visited with all over this country and shown them, “Hey, we listened to you. We heard.” We took the five leading causes of ladder accidents, identified how and why they’re happening. Most of them really are basically just human traits where we’re overreaching, so we make products that if you’re going to overreach, we still discourage it, but we know that people do it. Craig Willett: Right. Ryan Moss: We make it harder for them to get hurt doing it. We kind of protect them from themselves. We have a ground cue at the bottom of a ladder. 25% of ladder accidents are missing the bottom rung while descending, so we now have an audible, tactile ground cue that when you’re going up and down, you hear that and you know, “Oh, okay, I’m safe to step off.” I could go on and on about all of these innovations we have. Most people, when you tell them innovate a ladder, they look at you like— Craig Willett: Yeah. How are you going to do that? Ryan Moss: —“What could you possibly do? Isn’t it like rails and rungs and—”and we show them what we have and they’re just, their minds are like, “Wow, I had no idea you could do all this with a ladder.” We have a full on innovation team, a whole group of engineers now. We lead the world in ladder innovation. We are the benchmark for ladder innovation that really helps from a safety perspective, but then we also learned something else that’s really, really critical is safety is very important to safety professionals, not important—well, everybody wants a safe ladder, but a lot of people are saying, “Hey, I use a ladder to get a job done.” Craig Willett: Right. Ryan Moss: It’s also critical to understand that it’s we have this kind of mantra, “Faster, safer.” Right? They need to be able to get their job done quickly, whether you’re doing it for yourself or you’re making a living by that, people want to get it done quickly, but they also want to make sure they’re safe in doing that. We’ve designed all of these products that really do make it to where they can be highly productive, yet safer at the same time. Having that “Why” helped really in product innovation because that drove all of these new sales for people that were looking for answers to this problem. Craig Willett: Right. You mentioned, so I’m curious because I think this might be a key for some people. The safety people, do they make the buying decisions and who makes the buying decisions, and how do you get going from the safety perspective to getting companies to adopt your product, not only from a safety standpoint, but from a function and in a cost-effective manner because you’re probably going to be more expensive than your competition? Ryan Moss: We are. We are. Innovation costs money. Pioneering new products costs money. Marketing costs money. All of those things make you more expensive. I will tell you that’s not an easy approach, but what we did is we took our products to the safety professionals, and for the first time, they said, “Wow, somebody actually listened to me.” We made friends very, very quickly, and we did this in many, many industries, but then we would get them some sample products and they would get them in the hands of their users. The experiences they were having and seeing another ladder, in fact, one of the leading causes of ladder accidents is the weight of carrying extension ladder. Back injuries, neck injuries, shoulder injuries, knee injuries from carrying those big, old extension ladders. We reduced the weight by 25%, so you can imagine end users going, “No, I don’t want my—I know I’m field trialing this one, but I don’t want my ladder back. This is way better.” Right. That would kind of just spread through, so we had to do a lot of long, I mean, years of expensive leg work to get these products in the hands of people, and now people see them all over and like, “Oh, yeah, I want that. I want that.” We did take it to the safety professional because he has influence when it comes to, you think about it, injuries and accidents are a cost, a business cost. Craig Willett: Right. They start adding up, the disability costs and— Ryan Moss: Right. You start adding lost work time, all of that. Procurement’s going to take a different route, they’re going to just say, “Hey, well I’m incentivized to buy cheaper products.” Well, that’s where we use these safety professionals as our leverage in those companies to say, “Hey, time out here. I’m incentivized to reduce costs due to accident and injury.” Those working together ultimately, it’s been good work. Craig Willett: Combine the budgets. Ryan Moss: Yeah. Craig Willett: They can afford it. Ryan Moss: Then, some of that stuff is carrying on into retail now because most DIYers or weekend warriors, homeowners, they want to have good quality products and they also have day jobs. They see what’s out there in the professional world and many people that use a Dewalt drill in their day job, also have one for their home. Craig Willett: Right. Ryan Moss: I think we’re having a lot of success, and people also appreciate innovation. They will pay for it, and we’ve proven that over and over is that they will pay for innovation that solves problems. It’s riskier and harder. The one other thing that I think that really helped in our favor, you think about ladders, right, it’s probably maybe one of the first tools ever invented. We joke that Adam and Eve used a ladder to get the fruit, but probably wasn’t. Craig Willett: It was a fairly new tree, so it might have been short. Ryan Moss: Yeah, it might have been short. You’ve seen pictures from Anasazi Ruins or whatever, where there’s old ladders there, so ladders have been—ladders were invented before the wheel, so we’re talking about a category that is thousands of years old. I think that’s why the industry is so stale is just because it’s kind of commoditized. You’ll see on Black Friday a ladder for $19. You can’t buy the materials for $19, let alone retail it for that, but that’s a whole another discussion. People have taken what we view as a lifesaving tool and put it into this throwaway category, which we just said we’re going to take a different approach because we believe that human life values more than a throwaway item and that we’re going to take this approach where we’re going to help you work safer, but also more efficiently. It will cost a little bit of a premium, but we have found that people are willing to pay for that. That’s every day. We have the most expensive ladder and yet, we’re growing year over year over year. We’re a 48-year-old company now with—I mentioned to you the last three years in a row, 20% year over year over year at a 48-year-old company. We’re blessed and it’s working because there is an appreciation. Craig Willett: Because of branding, then innovate on top of that branding, and you bring the “Why,” so that everybody understands. Ryan Moss: You bring that all together. It’s that listening to the customer. One of our products, there was a company in Salt Lake that came down, a safety professional described the problems he was having. One of our—in fact, the most expensive product we sell today was a direct result of listening to that safety professional. That is now going all over the world being used, and it was because we listened to a problem he was having, and we innovated based on solving that specific need. It’s the combination of those things of truly understanding the customer. Craig Willett: It’s my belief that problems require truth to solve the problem, and then, if you take the premise that I believe in that truth resonates with people, so the truth resonates with the users of your product, or they wouldn’t be continuing to order it. When you’re able to solve the problem with the truth and get the truth out, then there’s no sales pitch, there’s no sales job. There might be some marketing, there might be some marketing channels and that, but now you’ve solved probably one of the business’s biggest problems is how do you distinguish yourself, and you did it. How to solve the problem. Now, you solved a different problem for me. As I look at business owners in The Biz Sherpa podcast, I typically will see people who started on their own or who are third or fourth or second generation in the family. You’re unique in the sense that you’re not a member of the Wing family, who founded Little Giant Ladder Systems, and you still became a business owner. Tell me a little bit about what that was like and what that means to you. Ryan Moss: Well, first of all, I don’t take it lightly because I understand outside of Hal and Brigitte, who founded the company, and their children, who had ownership in the business after Hal and Brigitte passed, that I was the only one outside of the family to have ownership in the business, so I don’t take it lightly. I do feel very, very blessed to have had the opportunity to participate in ownership, and I will tell you that it, for me, when you have that little mind shift of that, “Hey, this is partly mine,” right, I was a minority stake in it, but every decision I make is also directly affecting me, I think it does change your decision making some. Although, I felt like the reason that I got it in the first place, and mine came in buckets over the years, I mentioned I’ve been here 37 years, so it came in—not all at once—in some along the way, that even when I first started, I still tried to work as if it really meant something because it did. I mean, I was just taught that if you’re going to do a job, you do right. Craig Willett: Right. Ryan Moss: You get in and do it and be dedicated. I went the first—and I wouldn’t recommend this to anybody—the first 16 years that I worked at Little Giant without taking a vacation day. I went 30 years without taking a sick day, and I can promise you I was sick. I wouldn’t recommend that. I don’t know that that was the right approach, but it worked for me, and I know that Hal saw that dedication, he saw the problem solving, he saw the initiative, and he didn’t want to lose it. As a business owner, he did not want to lose that. I think the first thing he did, even before stock, initially, was like, “Hey, I’m going to pay for a whole life insurance policy for you as these golden handcuffs. As long as you’re here, you have this kind of thing.” Then, he saw in time that I need to make him more and more a part of this. I think part of my success also, and I’ve tried to help our people understand that it doesn’t—not that Hal had every answer, because he didn’t, he had a lot of people to help him grow this business, but I did try to understand him and the way he thought. I could pretty much finish his sentences. I knew the way he thought about certain things, so if a problem came up, I could pretty much tell you, “I know exactly how he would—” and 99.9% of the time, I was spot on because I made it a point to understand the way he viewed business and the way he viewed problem solving, and the way he would view spending money, those kinds of things. Craig Willett: You aligned yourself with the values of the ownership and that put you in a position to be an owner. Ryan Moss: Yeah. It’s like, “Hey, he’s acting just like we are, and seeing things the way we are.” That doesn’t mean I didn’t have an opinion. Many times, Hal would come to me with the problem and say, “What do you think we should do?” I would tell him, and he would say, “I think you’re right,” and we would do it. He wouldn’t always come in with—many times he wouldn’t come in with the answer. He would come and ask me, “What do you think we should do?” It wasn’t that I was just yes-man on everything. It was I’ll give you a perspective and let’s share perspectives and let’s come to a—but I felt like it was important to understand that. I got to the point, and we laugh about this a little bit, and a few others in the company that have been here a long time, depending on what he was wearing when he came into the building, you knew exactly the mood he was in, so you would know whether to be in another part of the building or if you were going to be around him. I think maybe you don’t have to quite know the person that well, but for us, it was—in my case I felt like really understanding him helped me to propel my career here and then ultimate ownership. Craig Willett: I’m going to say something that you wouldn’t say about yourself, but I wonder what your reaction to this statement would be. You used this earlier when you were talking about the product. You talked about adding value. You might be dedicated. That could add value, but you said it alone, not taking a vacation for 16 years you don’t recommend, and it doesn’t necessarily add value unless those are productive dedication. Ryan Moss: That’s exactly right. Craig Willett: Being able to align yourself with the philosophy of ownership qualifies you to be an owner potentially, but probably people get ownership or succeed in business because they add value to the company, to the product, and ultimately, to the lives of the people who benefit from the product. How do you react to that? I know I’m embarrassing you because you probably wouldn’t say that. Ryan Moss: You’re right. Craig Willett: What I heard today is a story of someone who added value. Ryan Moss: I mean, that’s the thing is people get—it’s the difference between getting a cost of living raise, and a raise. Right? Cost of living is you existed, you did okay. Craig Willett: Right. Ryan Moss: Whatever. Craig Willett: You didn’t stub your toe too many times. Ryan Moss: Yeah. I should be careful on that because there’s times in a business cycle to where maybe you can’t do more than the cost of living, so you just do that, but there are those who get a raise because they brought value. They brought something to the company, and you shared with them what they brought. I would say I have been fortunate to have ideas, products that have been developed, things that have truly brought value to the company, and I’ve been fortunate that way, and I can’t say this without saying that I feel like I’ve been blessed, but I’ve also worked hard for it. It has to be a combination of luck—what is the saying? That luck is when preparedness meets opportunity. Craig Willett: Exactly. Ryan Moss: Right? Craig Willett: Yep. Ryan Moss: There’s definitely a combination of that, but you are right. I mean, if it’s not perceived that you’re bringing value, people won’t give you something of value. Right? Craig Willett: Right. Ryan Moss: It really is an exchange for value for value. Craig Willett: I think that is the greatest lesson we can take today. Ryan, I appreciate your time. This has been very insightful, very rewarding to me, and it will be to all the viewers as they watch this video. I think it’s amazing the value that you’ve been able to add, and it not only has blessed many lives with the safety and the penetration that you’ve been able to do, and the thought of somebody going home tonight to their family because they were more safe on the job because of innovation of the company you preside over, but also, I look at it and say that you add value to the company every day. The fact that you would admit that you were wrong on the “Why” and then go through the exercise twice, tells me not only are you dedicated, but you’re humble enough to know that when you don’t have it right, you need to do what it takes to add that value. I appreciate that. It’s one of the greatest lessons, greatest examples that I’ve ever seen, and I know that this will mean a lot. Ryan Moss: Thank you. One thing that I tell everybody that comes to our facility, and this particular facility is a quarter million square feet, is we have some big rooms in this facility, but the biggest room is the room for improvement. I think if we own up to that, life is a lot better. Yeah, sure we all have egos, and we all want to put on the face that we know what we’re doing and truthfully, none of us faced 2020 ever before. Right? Craig Willett: Right. Ryan Moss: You just have to do your best and have to recognize your weakness and shortcomings. I actually feel like there’s nothing—there shouldn’t be anything wrong with sharing your failures because we learn more from our failures than we do our successes. If more people are open about those, we could, I think, accelerate business growth by being willing to share those with each other and to recognize that we learned it’s not really a failure unless you don’t get back up. If you stay down, it’s a failure, but if you get back up, it’s a success. Craig Willett: So often we think when we do fall down, we’re going to get fired anyway, so it’s kind of hard to own up to it. Ryan Moss: It can be. Craig Willett: I think you’re a great example of that. 37 years with the company and I think there’s some rewards that you’ve experienced recently. I’ll be talking with one of your partners in this, Hal’s son, Art, and he’ll tell us a little bit more about what happened with the sale of this business this last year and how you rolled some of your equity and stayed in, but I commend you for your example. I’m grateful that you’d be a guest today on our show. Ryan Moss: Thank you. Craig Willett: Thanks for taking the time. Ryan Moss: Thank you. Craig Willett: I know you’re busy and it’s a busy time of year, and I do know Ryan’s leaving next week to go on a vacation to the beach. Ryan Moss: I am. I’ll tell you this, I would close on this note. I have learned that not taking a vacation actually was hampering and that many, in fact, most of these people here, dread the fact when I go because I come back with— Craig Willett: All kinds of ideas. Ryan Moss: After I relax for a couple days, I’ve got all kinds of ideas, and they’re like, “Oh, boy. Here we go.” I truly have had some of what I would consider my best thought processes and things that have helped the business while I’ve been on a beach. You can’t spend all your time there, but if you block that out, it is amazing how the subconscious will take over when you pull away from the daily grind. Craig Willett: There’s a lot to that. I finished reading a book recently, Essentialism by Greg McKeown, and it’s a great book if you haven’t read it. It subscribes to that when you do less, but better. Ryan Moss: Yeah. Craig Willett: I think that’s something we can all strive for. Well, Ryan, I appreciate your time. This is really meaningful, and I’m glad our friendship continues through the years, and that you’d respond to my call to be a guest. This is Craig Willett, The Biz Sherpa. Thanks for joining us today. Speaker 1: Be sure to go to our website to access the resources related to this episode at www.BizSherpa.co. If you enjoyed this show, tell your friends about us and be sure to rate our podcast. Craig would like to hear from you, so share your thoughts in the Facebook community @BizSherpa.co. Follow us on Twitter @BizSherpa_co and on Instagram @BizSherpa.co.

Hibbing's population is exploding faster than the mine blasts on the edge of town. Vic's policies prove hugely popular and the town prospers. However, the world is changing. Half the people in Hibbing come from Europe where the first World War just broke out. The demand for steel is about to skyrocket which means the pressure from the mining companies is about to ramp up. But Vic continues to beat U.S. Steel in the courtroom and at the ballot box. He easily defeats a mining company candidate in his first contested bid for re-election. Then the mines try to cap the village's taxing power through a bill at the state legislature. Power gathers a force of Hibbing citizens to counteract the sophisticated lobbying operation of U.S. Steel at the state capitol. The people rejoice, throwing an enormous midnight parade for “the Little Giant.” Then the mining companies take their boldest action yet: they refuse to pay taxes to the Village of Hibbing, again citing extravagant spending. Somehow Victor Power and Hibbing endure months of economic sanctions by using village IOUs as a makeshift currency. In the end, Hibbing wins the fight, but Power sees the edges of what is possible in the face of overwhelming corporate strength.

This week Craig joins Art Wing the Co-chairman and President of Little Giant Ladder Systems to discuss the history of the business as well as how it has become the multi-million dollar company it is today. Action Items: Access our FREE Resources Subscribe to The Biz Sherpa Newsletter Follow The Biz Sherpa on LinkedIn Follow The Biz Sherpa on Instagram Follow the Biz Sherpa Facebook Page Subscribe to The Biz Sherpa Youtube Channel Subscribe to The Biz Sherpa Podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast or Stitcher. Connect with Craig on LinkedIn TRANSCRIPTION: Speaker 1: From his first job flipping burgers at McDonald’s and delivering The Washington Post, Craig Willett counts only one and a half years of his adult life working for someone else. Welcome to The Biz Sherpa podcast with your host, Craig Willett. Founder of several multimillion-dollar businesses and trusted advisor to other business owners, he’s giving back to help business owners and aspiring entrepreneurs achieve fulfillment, enhance their lives, and create enduring wealth. The Biz Sherpa. Craig Willett: This is Craig Willett, The Biz Sherpa. I’m grateful that you’d join me today for our podcast. We have a real special opportunity to be at Little Giant Ladder Systems with Art Wing, the son of the founder, Hal Wing. And we’re really in for a treat today. We’re going to get some demonstration of the product. And we’re going to hear a little bit of the history. And hear some keys to success in business ownership. I’m grateful, Art, that you’d accommodate us. And wow, what a setting for this. Art Wing: Well, thanks for coming by. And we go way back a long time. And it’s good to see you again. Craig Willett: It’s great to see you. It’s great to be with you. This is quite the studio. One of the keys that I have always noticed for a Little Giant Ladder’s success has been the ability to demonstrate product. And you’re taking it to the next level with these sound studios. Art Wing: Yeah, we actually started a tad before COVID. And COVID, basically entered a Zoom world, which we didn’t like the fact that 90% of Zoom is people looking up somebody’s nose on a desktop. So, we try to make it more of an event. So, ours is completely interactive. Everyone’s mic’d up, we have a software engine that drives it. But we have done no traveling since the entire thing and then just paid cash for all of the studios out of the proceeds. Craig Willett: That’s pretty cool. I remember the story of the startup of this business. Your dad innovated the product. But he would take it to county fairs. And he would travel and throw it in the back of a station wagon. I think you went with him on a few of those. What was that like for demonstrating? Art Wing: Well, I did it as a job for a long time. And I managed that group. So, the National Hardware Show used to be in Chicago at McCormick Place. And so, we didn’t have the money to actually ship our products. We didn’t have the money to fly. So, I remember we had a Pinto station wagon, and we loaded it up with ladders. And basically, we’d always get a 10 by 10 booth. And so, that would be our display. And then, the object would be while you’re demonstrating it, take orders from exhibitors. So, when you walked out, you could just walk out with an empty booth and go home kind of a thing. It was just a cool thing for me because I think I was 15 or 16. No, I was probably 14 or 15. Anyway, there was a go-kart company there and he actually ended up trading a ladder for a go-kart. So, we brought back a little go-kart in the back of the empty station wagon. Craig Willett: That was your first paycheck, the go-kart? Art Wing: Yeah. Yeah. I started when I was 12. Craig Willett: Really? Art Wing: So, I started with my father. We began as an importer, and then the Deutsche Mark devalued like crazy. And so, it caused us to become a manufacturer. And he just basically threw chop saws and stuff from Sears and different places. Got some used equipment, and we created it. And I helped him get that shop floor off the ground. And we started from there. But yeah, initially, what happened is he brought a sample over from Europe because we were an importer. And he went to maybe 50, 60 friends, showed it to them. They said, “Absolutely, I’ll take one,” kind of a thing. And what ended up happening, he brought his first container in and went back to the same 50, 60 people and they’re like, “Oh, that’d be for a painter. That’s too much money for me.” So, this is back when ladders were $29 and he’s trying to sell it for $200. And so, he sold none of those to any of those people. And so, he did venture on to try a trade show. And basically formulated a demonstration that would stop people, you go into a mass close, you would actually take orders. And— Craig Willett: So, demonstration really became a key. Because if you’re trying to say, “Hey, there’s a ladder,” and somebody else has a ladder for $29 and you want $200, what’s the difference? Art Wing: Yeah, the demonstration is actually so effective. Most people have been to a trade show before or if it’s a home show, you’re just making a beeline. So, even when it was dead, we would just start demonstrating to nobody. And then, they would just stop and then you just launch into what you’re looking at and it would be your demonstration. So, they wouldn’t leave after that. And then typically, there’d be 40, 50 people out there. And you’d write up two or three of them. And then, there’d be stragglers from the last one. And you’d basically start off with, “I know you didn’t get to see the whole thing. So, let me show it to you.” And you just start from fresh and new people were coming up. And it would go crazy. So, we ended up doing specialty shows. I mean, we did like funeral director shows, which seems weird but most funeral directors actually own their own property and take care of their own property. And they have good steady cash flow. Craig Willett: You can’t avoid death and taxes. Art Wing: They love good products. We did those type of trade shows, we did industry trade shows, and we did just about every home show and county fair you can think of. At one point, we were doing upwards of 500 shows a year. Craig Willett: So, is it true, the rumor I’ve always heard that because your mom’s from Switzerland— Art Wing: They have that right. Craig Willett: She could yodel. And your dad could yodel a little bit too— Art Wing: No, my mom was actually from Germany. Craig Willett: Oh, Germany. Okay. Art Wing: My dad is a strange perfectionist. So, before he passed when they would go back to Germany, most people would say, “So, your wife’s from America, and you’re from Germany.” So, when he took something up, he would perfect it. His German was flawless. And on one of their trips, and we did have a home in Switzerland, he really dug yodeling. And he took it up and became super proficient at it and just really random stuff. Craig Willett: But he could yodel at a show and get people to— Art Wing: Oh, yeah. If times got bad enough, he could do that. But I remember when I was about 10, we lived in Europe for a couple years. And that’s where he ran across the ladder idea. And so, I was in middle school. And one of the first things he did was he enrolled our entire family in the talent show. So, we’re up there with these— Craig Willett: Sounds like the Sound of Music. Art Wing: We’re up there with like these nerdy European clothes on with all these kids from Utah and the USA. We didn’t know, started singing and doing—it was just goofy. I’m still going through counseling for that. Craig Willett: Trying to recover. Art Wing: But no, yeah, he was really a visionary guy and grew it. What happened when we began manufacturing was, we actually still bought a couple of key components. So, the original German painting contractor guy that we got the license from would know how many we’re producing. And we just amped up the royalty so he was making exactly the same as selling it to us, but we actually benefited by not shipping air, and it worked out really well. So yeah, it was good. And it dovetailed into innovation. So, that company is still around. They’re in Germany. And we actually have more market share in Germany than they do. And the weird thing is it’s being run by an accountant. And so, to this day, they still have exactly the same literature and the same ladder. They’ve never improved on it once. They do have a website. And as soon as the web takes off, they’re going to launch it. They’re like in the stone ages. So, we continue patenting and improving and staying relevant. And yeah, it’s always been part of our DNA. Craig Willett: And I think that’s part of it to be able to demonstrate it really makes the sale. Now, your family did at one point sell the business. This is back in the ’80s, wasn’t it? Art Wing: Right. Craig Willett: Sold the business. Your dad had built it up to a certain level. Art Wing: Yeah, if I can remember most everything my dad did, they were all great decisions. But in the mid-80s, he brought on two partners that said, “We’re going to take some capital and invest with you.” And I think it hit him later at a board meeting that two guys can out vote one. So, they took their capital back out. And they said, “We want to go and sell it to a VC company.” Anyway, long story short, the VC company ended up being a Ponzi scheme. And they went down taking—they owe General Electric a credit like $160 million. And my dad actually had a clause in there that they could not cash or redeem any of his stocks for a year. So, he basically just watched it go broke. The sheriff came, locked it up. So, I think towards the end of ’85, we’d set ourselves up a dealer. And we’ve just bought all of the inventory, and we moved to another building. And then on March 6 of ’86, we bought the assets at the sheriff’s, so. And then, we started again from scratch. Craig Willett: What was that like? What was your role at that point in time? Art Wing: On that particular time, I was actually in the customer service department. I mean, I set up the shop with my dad, I’ve run general labor, I’ve done our quality control program, been the Customer Service VP of Sales, President, CEO, Chairman. I’ve sourced all of our international partners. I’ve sourced all of our international factories. And so— Craig Willett: So, you’ve had a key role in it. What was it like working for your father? I mean, sometimes, family-owned businesses take on a negative connotation. People think, “Well, they can’t be successful.” But I’m sitting here today and this really says, “No, they can be.” But what was it like, and how was that an advantage and maybe a disadvantage at times? Art Wing: And there was an advantage in that he had a really good sense for business. And my mom actually ran the books, and she’s wired like Doug, very conservative. And so, that was a good basis to grow on. But I will tell you that some of the biggest arguments we ever had were like, “We have a perfectly good telex machine. What is a fax machine? We don’t need that.” It was a good week of strife. And I finally just went out and bought it, and then they paid me back later. Same thing with PCs. We had an IBM 360 in a room with an air conditioner. He’s like, “Why does everybody need one on their desk?” And so, I went out and bought PCs for everyone. So, we had some disagreements on that. We’ve had— Craig Willett: But you were as visionary as he was then, to be able to keep it moving with the technology. Art Wing: So yeah, I’ve done more of moving forward, like when the internet was just taking off, I mean, I bought ladders.com for $12. I think the last thing we turned down was— Craig Willett: And if you don’t know, that’s the web address for this company. Art Wing: Right. And I had to just turn down $1.2 million, because the employment agency—a company wants to buy it, but we’re not selling it. So, I did that. And plus, at the same time, I bought every other reverse domain you could buy. So right now, we have about 100 domains that are all pointed in different directions. We’re the number one unaided brand awareness as far as ladders. We’re the number one ladder search on Google. And the number one ladder at Amazon. And so, yeah, I did a lot of that stuff. We wrote an infomercial. It was wildly successful. Craig Willett: Yeah, let’s talk about that. So, you go back, you buy the business back in the ’80s—’85, 86—and you’re starting from scratch. So, you had really one product in a couple different sizes, right? One ladder that might look like—something like the one back here. Art Wing: So, most people know what it is. And it was a one trick pony. We actually had it in four sizes, same grade. That’s all we had. And we had an engineer let some IP run out on it. So, I think it was the fall or spring of 2000. There was a full-page ad on the back of USA Today that basically had an exact knockoff of our product at half the price. And we still had a year left on our patents. But if you know the way a patent litigation works, you’re only entitled to the damages. Art Wing: So, by the time I would have got my day in court, they would have been expired anyway. So, there really was no point. So, we wrote an infomercial. Because we had learned from the shows that if you move up the ladder, you move ladders. Craig Willett: Right. If you’re able to demonstrate, you’re able to get attention. Art Wing: So, we just carried that over. Craig Willett: Yeah, but that was a big leap of faith in infomercials, they’re not very successful. Art Wing: They’re not very successful. An infomercial typically will run 18 months then it’s fried and then you’ll be in the Closeout or the “As Seen On TV” bin at Walmart or somewhere like that. The weird thing about this one is my dad’s passion really came across on it. And we had some good talent as well. He was the most difficult talent I worked with and the most expensive because I had to pay him a royalty. Craig Willett: Your dad? Art Wing: Yeah. And I had to continue paying my royalty to my mom. Craig Willett: I hope on some of the B-roll we’re able to get some of your dad because his demonstrations top anybody’s. Art Wing: Oh yeah, we could get the whole show and you could take snippets of it, yeah. But long story short, we just entered our 18th year and January was probably higher than any infomercial that’s in the space right now. But when we did it, yes, you’ve heard of “betting the farm.” He had a little farm down in Springville. And he literally mortgaged it and gave me a million dollars. So, he bet the farm and out of that, I had to write it, produce it, distribute it and hire all the talent. And it was and continues to be a great success, even to the point where— Craig Willett: So, you still use some of that in your infomercials? Art Wing: It’s still running. So last year, I made a little bit on it. I’m not looking to get greedy but last year, we ran 12,000 hours of TV and made a couple $100,000 on it. So, it’s just free advertising. Craig Willett: Right. So, it drives people to the retail locations. Art Wing: And the brand as well. So, there’s some knockoffs out there, they’re inferior, they’re clunky, there’s no innovation in them. And you can stand in front of those guys and they will say it’s a Little Giant because what it is like—you don’t call them facial tissues, it’s a Kleenex. Little Giant is the category on a telescoping articulating ladder. Craig Willett: So, how do you do that? How do you create that brand? Was that brand created before the infomercial or did the infomercial help brand the company and the product? Art Wing: Yeah. We had laid the groundwork. So, there was a lot of pent-up demand. Also have an infomercial for every 10 people that view it and buy—I mean, every 10 people that view it, only one will buy. So, 10 are going away, saying, “I need to get my hands on, and I want to see it.” And so, there’s natural curiosity. And actually, it was compelling enough that they wouldn’t buy another ladder until they could afford—they actually save up for a Little Giant. And we’re still selling at the same price point. And our average order sale is at $600 right now on this loaded TV ladder, which is just unheard of. We wrote the infomercial really well. What happens when you typically write an infomercial is you drive to a call center. So, we were driving it to 15,000 seats, and that’s the call volume. We were buying a million dollars. We bought a million dollars’ worth of media a week for two years straight. And made money doing it. Craig Willett: That’s betting the farm. Art Wing: Yeah. But we wrote the show well enough that most every infomercial, the call time for the guy to walk through and explain the deal and finish the selling is between three and six minutes. And our average time from when they rang in to where they hung up and they’d paid was less than 90 seconds. Craig Willett: Are you kidding? Art Wing: Because they usually were calling to buy, they weren’t calling to be sold. Craig Willett: So, I’m going to call Hal now the king of demonstration. So, that was probably the smartest move is to hire him. He was your costliest move, but he was probably the best demonstrator. Art Wing: He had the passion. And you can show some of the clips. I mean, he had the ability to—super sincere, great sense of humor. And he’d just look right into the camera and look into your soul. And we get— Craig Willett: But he was trying to save his life too. He had bet the farm and this was a really critical moment for him. Art Wing: But after the first one, he was pretty much set for life. And then, there was three more on top of that. So, we’ve continued to refresh with innovation. Craig Willett: Let’s talk about branding. I’m looking at the carpet here. I’m looking at the Little Giant name on the ladders. It’s in orange. And then, your first ladder, some of the key component parts are in orange. What’s the significance of orange? Art Wing: You know what, the original one from Europe had orange plastic parts on it. And we were buying the plastic parts. And so, we used that. It turned out that nobody was using any ladder company to brand or even put their name on it. And so, that established us. You notice a lot of green stuff. So, we’ve invented a proprietary fiberglass system. It’s 25% lighter than anybody else’s, and 25% stronger, and actually getting the patent on the color green. So, it separates us again— Craig Willett: Which is unique and innovative in and of itself. Art Wing: Yeah, I think the last good color patent was Coca-Cola. You have Coca-Cola red. But they don’t do— Craig Willett: So, we got Little Giant green now? Art Wing: Right. So, if you see one on a Century Link truck or a Comcast or Verizon or anyone anywhere, it’s a Little Giant. Craig Willett: That’s pretty cool. So, you can identify your product from a mile away, which is great branding. Art Wing: Yeah. So yeah, we have always tried to stay loyal to— Craig Willett: Who’s the king of branding here, though? If your dad can demonstrate, who in the company really came up with keeping the name, keeping the orange? I mean, where did this sense of brand awareness come from? Art Wing: So, we have great people, and we have a great team. But I would say I’ve always been passionate about it and have the long view. So, I mean, I’m doing an infomercial, and Costco is saying, “We want it in our stores yesterday,” and it was really ticking off the buyer because I just said, “Not now. Why would I sell you and have you undercut me? I have my TV network. I need to innovate a ladder.” And so, for three years, he chased me around the globe trying to buy it. And the weird thing about the principle of scarcity, a buyer—they’re not used to being told no, they’re used to having people sell their souls. Craig Willett: Right. Right. Art Wing: They wanted the worst. So, they just kept coming and coming and coming. And so, eventually, we have enough innovation. We do a really good job with what’s called “channel chatter.” So, where most people have one ladder, if you put it in Costco or Amazon, and then Home Depot, if one of those accounts gets a cold, they all sneeze and they all call you and want a discount, but we configure each ladder unique for every channel. And so, they can do whatever they want. And when someone calls, which they don’t, you just say, “Well, that’s not your ladder, so you don’t need to worry about it.” So, I’ve always had the long view on that, the brand. We’ve had offers of, “Hey, we’ll buy a couple million pieces, but you’ve got to drop the price 40% and whatnot.” And we don’t join the race to the bottom on pricing. So, we— Craig Willett: So, you’ve never done that? You’ve stood alone and here’s what it does, and here’s why it’s worth it. Art Wing: Yeah. And if you add enough value—our brand equity, it commands a 13% premium just on the name. And then, you start throwing innovation on it and then it just really goes nuts, so. Craig Willett: So, on your original ladder, I’m trying to remember on that infomercial, how many different uses can you get out of that ladder? I’m giving you a quiz here. Art Wing: So, a slogan I came up with is “Buy One and Get 33 Free,” because it did 34 things. Craig Willett: So, this ladder, can we just come over here for a minute? So, this ladder in its infancy days, because I see other innovations from the original, did 33 things, 34 things. Art Wing: It had different locks. So, this is a rock lock, that’s a different invention. This one, you can see back there, that’s actually the same ladder. And it has rapid locks. So, it locks differently. So, we can give it to different customers. And this is actually the same ladder, and it’s fiberglass for electricians. And so, we have it in probably 20 or 30 different versions. Craig Willett: And so, when someone’s buying a ladder, they can’t compare it to anything else. There’s nothing else, unless somebody’s copied your product. Art Wing: Yeah. And they can buy cheap ones and throw them away and hope they don’t fall off kind of a thing. And we’re happy to let him do that. So, yeah. Craig Willett: Do you mind showing us some of the things that you’ve been able to do with it—how you’ve innovated and changed it? Art Wing: Some of the key things that we’ve done that have caused a tipping point is one of them was this extension ladder business. So, we got invited to a telecom conference, and we were flattered. And we went and they basically said, “We want lighter ladders, because we’re having $75,000 per occurrence in injuries, which I thought it was falling and stuff like that. But it was actually strains and sprains when they pull them off the ladder racks. Because— Craig Willett: Because of the weight. Art Wing: These are 80, 90 pounds. And this one actually weighs 62 pounds. And so, it helps solve that problem. And it also helped them make their workforce more diverse because they could hire more women. Because there’s no way that most women can lift a 90-pound ladder. So, we came up with this. It’s actually our own—it’s lighter. We’ve done some stuff. We’ve double pulleyed it on the side, so it’s easier to pull. Most of them have them going up the middle. We have our own locking system. Craig Willett: Yes. So, show us how that works, if you don’t mind. Art Wing: Yeah. It just basically goes up. You go past the rung, and it just locks down automatically. We also have a level on the side. So, you’re supposed to be at a 75-and-a-half-degree angle. If you’re too steep, it’ll come back on you. If you’re too shallow, it’ll kick out. So, you just set it there and you’re 75 and a half. And then, we have another one that’s here on the bottom. So, the number one reason for ladder accidents is overreaching. And so, if you’re off on a 24-foot ladder, I think if you’re off an inch and a half at the bottom, you’re off 18 inches of the top. So, if you didn’t think about going that way, you’re going to go. So, the other thing we didn’t like is if you notice on step ladders, all step ladders have to have an inch of flair for every foot they go up kind of a thing. But on an extension ladder, you can go up to 40 feet, and they can be perfectly straight. And we didn’t think that was right. So, we invented what was called a SumoStance. And this actually adds 600% stability. Craig Willett: 600%? Art Wing: I think we’ve gone to the top. It does do more. Craig Willett: So, you went to this— Art Wing: So yeah, you can actually go to the top and hang 150 pounds off the side, and it will not move. But the other thing that is important is— Craig Willett: So you don’t mind if I climb up here and test— Art Wing: Hang on a second. Let’s make sure it’s leveled because you do also have the ability to level it. Craig Willett: From side to side? Art Wing: Yeah. Craig Willett: So, if I’m on uneven ground, I’ll just— Art Wing: So, this is a little low here. So, we’ll make it a level there. So, you can have it level or whatnot. And we’re pretty close to there. I’m going the wrong way. Craig Willett: Keep going. There we go. We’re getting there. Art Wing: Yeah, you can climb that. Craig Willett: All right. So, I can go up and check this out. Now, there’s a click when I stand on it, what’s that? Art Wing: Well, what that is, it’s called a Ground Cue. Craig Willett: So, I can get up here, and I can reach out here and not worry about it sliding. Art Wing: It’s super stable. Craig Willett: Cool. Art Wing: So, the ground cue, as you come down, everyone’s missed the stair in their house going either up or down and they fall on their face. The ground cue basically just lets you know that you’re on the bottom step and it’s safe to get off. We had one customer that, I think a third of their accidents were people climbing here and here, and they just get a head injury from falling backwards. Craig Willett: Really? Art Wing: So yeah, that’s the ground cue. Have cage ladders— Craig Willett: Let’s just stop for this one for just a second. So, you went to the teleconference or the telephone industry. Art Wing: Right. So, we went to that meeting and we were flattered that we were invited. And they said, “We want something.” And we said fine. And I think 35 days later, they had a prototype. And we got all the business. We took it from everyone. And it wasn’t until after that that we found out that all ladder manufacturers were invited. But the two biggest ones had stopped coming because they would come every year and say, “Yeah, we’ll get you something,” and they would never do anything. Craig Willett: So, you followed through. That’s another key, follow through. Art Wing: Yeah, you’ve got to— Craig Willett: And you captured the whole telecom industry? Art Wing: We’re on our way to getting the lion’s share of it. So yeah. And the nice thing, too, is it changed our whole revenue position too as well. Because this is the ladder that you have at your home. I mean, it’s 300-pound rated, it’s commercial, it’s strong enough that we like to say that when you pass away, your kids are going to fight about it over the will. But— Craig Willett: They all borrow it. They all love it, so. Art Wing: From a revenue stream, I only got you once. This has two things. First of all, all of those crews only work with a safety inspector. So, they’re always looking over their shoulder and being trained and whatnot. And depending on the company, every four to six years, they take everything out of service, destroy it and replace it. And they go upwards of $1,000 a ladder, and they’ll pay the difference. Whereas the competitors are $400, or $300, or something like that. Craig Willett: So, this is your industrial innovation that really took you really deep into industries that you hadn’t penetrated before. Art Wing: Yeah, we did a lot of stuff like on the normal ones. The ones they were using had a swage that came through the rung. And we have a robotics—and I have some B-roll on that for you too. But we actually made it to where you could actually take a rung out if it got damaged and replace it in the field, and not have to replace the whole ladder. So, there’s companies that do that. Craig Willett: What kind of innovations have you done at home for the DIY people? Art Wing: So lately, the coolest thing is what’s called the King Kombo. And this is the 2.0 version. You and I looked at one a minute ago. Remember, I had to push both those things? Craig Willett: Yeah. Art Wing: Well, it’s been 60 days. So now, it’s just one hand. Craig Willett: You don’t let one of your innovations last longer than 60 days? Art Wing: Well, you can do it too fast, and you’ll lose money. But I like to keep it in a drawer like Intel keeps their next 15 chips in the drawer until they’re ready. So, up until a while ago, I mean, a lot of people would just lean and extend a stepladder against the wall. And OSHA says you can’t do that. Because what happens is you can be pivoting on that foot and it’s not safe. We designed a way that it locks in there. And this is a wall pad and you can actually use it straight up against the wall just like that. And then, it has what’s called, I don’t even know what it’s called now. It’s a— Craig Willett: A corner. Art Wing: Yeah. What is that called? You’ve been here long enough? Speaker 4: Rotating wall pad. Art Wing: A wall pad, okay, thank you. Craig Willett: Rotating wall pad. Art Wing: So, what this has is it has a V on it. So, that’s ideal for, and you’ll be able to see this in the footage from the shooting straight down, you can get right on a corner, you can get up flat on a wall. Craig Willett: So, I can get there? Art Wing: Yeah. You can shake for all your worth. Craig Willett: I can come up here. And I can take care of any project— Art Wing: You’re super close to your work. It’ll also do an inside corner the same way. So, it’s super innovative. Little Giant have been known to be $400 pieces. And we are now an exclusive partner for Lowe’s. It’s in all of their stores. And so, it’s just flying off the shelf. This is priced typically between $120 and $180, depending on whether you get an aluminum or fiberglass. And then, you put this away— Craig Willett: And that allows you to reach a lot more of a market than you could before. Art Wing: Yeah. There’s no advertising with it and it just flies off the shelf. So, you can activate that again with one hand. And you don’t have to stop there, you can just keep going all the way up. And you have an extension ladder built in as well. And we have different sizes of it. The nice thing is you also have the Quad Pod at the top so I can now in an extension ladder, position, do this inside, outside, inside or straight on. And it has places for you to— Craig Willett: Get the other ladder out of the way. Art Wing: To put the tools there for you. Craig Willett: Wow. That’s pretty cool. Art Wing: So, that’s the one that’s been selling just like crazy. Craig Willett: So, this is one that I don’t need. I can walk into the store and buy it. But if I want to learn how to use it, I can just scan the video on the side? Art Wing: We’re kind of the gold standard for assets. So, we have thousands of hours of videography on all of our products. But yes, on all of our products, we’ll have a— Craig Willett: That’s right here. Art Wing: Oh, you’ll have a barcode and basically, if you point your smartphone at that, it’ll queue up the instructional video on what it’ll do as far as features, and what you need to do to be safe, so. Craig Willett: So, it’ll give you a safety training. But also show you everything you can do with it. Art Wing: And it’s super light, but super strong. Craig Willett: So, a ladder is not a ladder is not a ladder when it comes to Little Giant. Okay. Art Wing: And then, we’ve done simple things too. You’ll notice that most step ladders have a rung right here. And the only purpose for that rung is to hold the sticker that says, do not climb on this rung. So, it’s actually the gateway to standing on here, which you’re not supposed to do. So, we took them out on all of our step ladders, and we actually got the patent on that as well. Craig Willett: So, you really end up with a standing platform. Art Wing: And you’re in an enclosed space. Very comfortable, very nice. Craig Willett: Wow. That’s pretty neat. Art Wing: We make the world’s tallest step ladder. Yeah, we’re branching out into a lot of different things, so. Craig Willett: So, why all the innovation? I mean, you did the infomercial, and you lived a pretty good life from that, it seems like. And you still run it today. So, what is it that comes back to you? Why the fiberglass? Why the innovations in the industrial market? What’s your concern? Art Wing: So, even when we were selling a one trick pony, we always pride ourselves on doing things differently than everyone else. I like to play apples and oranges. I don’t want to play the apple game. Because when you start talking tonnage and commodity, it’s just a race to the bottom. So, the innovation allows you to obviously over exceed your customers’ expectations. It allows you to create margins and price points that are sustainable for longer, and it gives you the marquee. I mean, I don’t know how many Fortune 100 and 500, 1000 companies that we’re at the top of their speed dial—from Exxon and a bunch of other ones. If they have a ladder problem, they call us and they say, “We have this, can you solve it.” And we’ll solve it and they’ll have a prototype in two weeks, and then we’ll build it for them. Craig Willett: I laughed, because when I followed up with you to make sure we’re okay to come, to this you said, “Remember, Craig, you get what you pay for.” And I’m not paying Art at all for this wonderful studio. And he’s letting us use it free today. But anyway, you really say that they get what they pay for. Really. You’re really about preserving margins and that. And I’m sure that’s led to the sustainability of your company. Art Wing: Yeah, the sweet spot that we’re in is that we have really super innovative products. And we’re now at a point where they’re priced as—it’s 10, 12 bucks next to the cheap thing next to it. So, it’s innovative. It’s like a no-brainer. I think this year on Black Friday, and this shouldn’t happen—it was Lowe’s with no advertising—but we were the number three and the number seven most bought items in the store. Craig Willett: Are you kidding? Art Wing: So, it just rocked. They’d emptied everything and now, we’re dealing with port congestion, shopping and everything else. But yeah, it’s really taking off. Craig Willett: So great. What are some of the greatest lessons now that you learned from your father? I know it’s got to be hard to work for family in a business. And it sounds like he did well, because you’re able to stand up and still continue with the vision you had, at the same time, marrying to his vision. But what did you learn from him? What did you take? Because he’s now passed away, but what is his legacy in your life that helped you be successful as the CEO and chairman of this company? Art Wing: Well, one of the things he used to tell our salespeople all the time is, “You can tell the customer anything you want as long as it’s the truth.” And it makes a big difference. I’ve always strived—and he lived this rule as well—is under promise and over deliver. I mentor quite a few new business people. And it’s frustrating for me because there is no short silver bullet for creating a business. So, there’s no shortcut to success. So, these people that I’m mentoring, they’re 20 somethings and their parents have been successful. And they look at me and said, “You’re successful.” I’m like, “Yeah, I’m into it 40 years.” “And your parents were successful, how long do they do it?” “Oh, they did it 35 years.” And their parents were in it. So, unless you’re creating Snapchat or your last name’s Zuckerberg, there really are no unicorns out there. You have to be committed to have a long view, begin with the end in mind, and just stay the course and just stay to your values. I mean, if you let the market—that basically becomes the tail wagging the dog and you’re just running the business according to their dictates and pretty soon you’ve got all kinds of chaos. So, you have to stick to your values. This is not something I necessarily learned from my father. But I think the number one thing that businesses fail and do a bad job at is they don’t say no to enough deals. Because you’re in the business, you want to grow—a deal’s a deal, right? But there are bad deals, you should pass on the bad deals, and then figure out how to come back and make it a good deal. Because— Craig Willett: But that’s a scary area. I want to spend a few minutes on this. Why were you able to say no? Because that’s scary, you have to come back and say, “Hey, we could have had this big order. But we said no.” And how do you explain that? Art Wing: I don’t know why. That’s the way I’ve always been wired. Because I’m looking down the road 10 years, and if I have something that’s a $200 price point, and somebody wants to buy a million of them at $99, yeah, I’ll sell a million of them. But then, I’m stuck with a product that’s $99 as a thin margin and the volume just dissipates, then you have no business. So, I’m taking the long view. And even when I was running the salesforce and stuff like that, people would come back and say, “I got an order for three truckloads to this new customer.” And I said, “Well, I want you to call them back and send them a half a truckload.” And they’re a little perplexed because that’s counterintuitive to selling. What I wanted them to do is burn through that half a truckload and then get greedy and say, “Okay, we want a truckload,” and then burn through that. The worst thing you can do is deliver three truckloads and then have it sit on your dock and just be saying, “These things suck because—” Craig Willett: Right. Because they can’t sell them fast enough. Art Wing: Yeah. So, I try and get the turns right, get the mojo right. We’ve done that with our international—we’re in, I think, 28 countries. And we do the same thing on the first order. We’ll sell them more. Less than they need is typically pre-sold before it hits their shore. And then, the greed kicks in. And then when they do start ordering large orders—they’ll order two truckloads, and they’re onboard and they’re fans—what happens is since they’re having to walk by it every day in the warehouse, it now becomes a priority of like, “Let’s get this stuff moved.” And then, they’ll blow through it. And then, they do the math on it. And then greed kicks in. And they’re like, “Okay, let’s order four containers.” Craig Willett: Okay. So, it’s the scarcity factor too. Art Wing: Yeah. Craig Willett: I like how you’ve tried to preserve the margin, because so often, it’s easy to get in business and try to do price per pound. You can walk into one store and buy ground beef at this price per pound. And you can go down the street and get it for half that. But what’s the difference? It’s the quality of the beef. And so, how do you know that? And if you don’t price distinguish yourself, you can’t make that differential. And I think that’s the beauty of being able to demonstrate and then be able to preserve the price. It wasn’t out of greed, that’s allowed you to innovate, because it’s costly to innovate. I don’t know if you’re willing to say what percentage of your budget you spend on R&D and innovation, but— Art Wing: It’s upwards of 20%. Craig Willett: Wow. Art Wing: We spend a lot on advertising. And we spend a lot on R&D. I think we have eight engineers in house and our marketing stats—probably around 20-25 people, which we do all kinds of social platforms and everything else. But yeah, the other thing too that is a byproduct that’s helped us stay disciplined and why I had the long view is everything that we sell is also very litigious. And so, you don’t want to be selling something if—in those are not a lot of $9.99 cent step stools in here. We don’t get into that space. That stepstool business likes a 70% margin. So, if you take a $9, $10 item, and you’re now down to $3, and he’s going to toss you a buck 50 to make. So, you made a buck 50 on it. And the first loss that you have with $150,000 SIR has wiped out a lot of step stools. So, it’s good business, it’s good practice, but it’s also, we get sued probably 90% less than anybody in the industry. And— Craig Willett: And has it always been that way? I mean, before you started some of these safety innovations? Art Wing: Yeah. Because even the first one was a 300-pound raise ladder that you had. So, it’s commercial grade. So, we don’t get the suits they have. All of our suits are typically nuisance lawsuits. Some places around the world, they feel like they won the lottery if they fall off. But we’ve never lost a lawsuit either. So, we get much, much better insurance rates and premiums than anybody else. Craig Willett: Wow. That’s great. So now, you learned a lot from your dad. You’ve also run a business where you’ve had siblings in the business too. What can you pass along as secrets to getting along with family but also being able to achieve the objectives of the business and not get caught up in the family business at work? Art Wing: Yeah, it is really difficult because when family members are here or can come, there always seems to be this little tiny bit of entitlement and it’s fun to throw the name around. I know that in my— Craig Willett: And I think your dad was against that. I think he made you do probably more work for less than other people and do jobs— Art Wing: I worked for less and I had to work harder. And that debunked the myth. I never called him Dad once at work ever. I called him Hal. Because I wanted to be like, “Hey, Dad, will you do this for me?” It just sounds so—nepotism. But no, I think if you were going to do it, first of all, I’d just say there’s an easier way to do business than that. It sounds like it’s a pipe dream. But there are a lot of conflicts that goes with you. And then, it doesn’t leave you all the time, because it’s always top of mind. But probably the best way to manage it is to give them enough space, and then have KPI or key performance indicators to where they have to hit certain marks. And most all of our people have an earnout based on their productivity. So, if they win, we win, we share with them. Craig Willett: Okay. So, that avoids having to treat people with favorites based on the name. Art Wing: Right. If you can’t sell, you’re not going to make anything. Or if you can’t perform in your space, you’re not going to get the rewards. Craig Willett: So, I know your dad at one point had sold this—I don’t know, it’s because the partners were wanting to sell. And then, you bought it back. And through a lot of hard work, you lived through that period of time. What was your vision? And how did you adopt a vision for the next 20, 30 years as you grew this business? Art Wing: Really, it’s just one day at a time and just looking at the opportunities and just not living in the present. So, just always shooting. It’s a dangerous lifestyle, because I live it that way myself. And I probably should go to counseling, because I’ve always lived for when I get this, I’ll be happy. And I said something else. And I said—that’s just how I’m wired. So, I’m not the most content business person. I’m learning how to be mellow. But I’ve always had that drive to whatever status quo is not enough. I had a UK partner yesterday said that one of their customers said, “You have the right to push every open door in our factory and our stores.” And so, I’ve never heard that term before. But yeah, my dad used to say if you aim for the stars and you miss, you’re probably still going to hit the moon. But that’s better than not having a goal at all. Craig Willett: I think that’s great. So, what about going into the next generation? I mean, you made a good transition from the first generation to the second generation. I know recently, you had a transaction on the business. Why did you decide not to pass it to a third generation? Art Wing: Well, I did a lot of work on it. I had to rebuild the business from when my dad had it because he basically had a business that didn’t have a lot of EBITDA in it because he lived a different lifestyle. And when he passed, we never took any dividends. We didn’t take anything. We just poured everything back in it so we could start building EBITDA. But we’ve just completely changed and just kept pushing. But there’s a big element of just measuring things. He used to also say that which is measured is improved. So, when we went through this transaction, it’s pretty arduous. I mean, it was a killer. Three years and the very last two months was a big deal to find the right partner, find the right agreement. But the thing that we spent zero time on them saying, “Can you beef up your finances?” Because we measure every vertical on every skew on every product on every day on every month. And so, we know exactly where we’re at. So, it was easy for them. The reason I moved away and didn’t embrace the third generation—one of the Wall Street banks, their number is third-generation businesses are failing about 97% of the time. Craig Willett: Wow, that’s huge. Art Wing: It is huge and it’s something you have to deal with. And it’s not really the third generation’s fault. I mean, I can tell you to this day, I’ve not had a peanut butter sandwich since 1980 because we didn’t have any money and we ate peanut butter sandwiches five days a week. So, I’ve never had another peanut butter sandwiches. But you raise a family and you vacation in Hawaii, you live in nicer homes because it’s changed. And that’s their starting point. So, a lot of times with a third generation, when they come into the business, now, “Where’s my office,” no, “Where’s my corner office?” So, the 3% that make it, I think, are very, very good companies and strong, but it’s just not something I wanted to do. Our CEO has a small ownership position. My sister and brother had an ownership position. And I just started, again, beginning with the end in mind, how do you want to wind it? So, there had to be a crystallization event. And we found the right partners. It’s great. They love the legacy. They’re actually from the Midwest. They’re not New York slick guys. They’re just really great guys. They love the legacy of the company. And it’s been a really good partner. And they’re actually looking at doing bigger and better things than we were doing before. And— Craig Willett: It’s nice to be part of that, because I think you stayed in to keep innovating and keep growing the business. Art Wing: I’ll be in three to five years. One of the things that I’m most proud of about this company, which is when you consider we’ve had times where we’ve grown 100%, and we’ve had times where we’ve grown 600%. We’ve never taken any outside capital; it’s all been financed out of cash flow. Craig Willett: Wow, that’s amazing. Art Wing: So, it was a tightrope. Craig Willett: There’s a big lesson in there. And it’s a tightrope at times— Art Wing: Most people can’t tell the difference between cash flow and profit. Craig Willett: And I think that’s really key to understand. Art Wing: If you don’t have the means to operate—I’m in a little different financial position than I was 25 years ago. My dad used to say, “Working with a bank is like an umbrella. If it’s raining, they’re not going to sell you one. If you don’t need one and it’s sunny, they’re going to hand you umbrellas all day long.” So, I have more people offer me stuff now. And I’m like, “I don’t need it.” So, you have to make sure that you don’t run out of cash. You anticipate and you understand growing too slow will kill you because inflation will eat it up. And growing too fast will gobble your cash, and it will kill you just the same as well. So, there has to be a balance. Craig Willett: There’s a balance in there. I think that’s really wise advice. Wasn’t it hard to sell it? This is the third generation, I mean, it’s your baby. So, how do you feel about doing that? And the reason I ask is not to delve into your personal life, but more for business owners who want to know, “What’s at the end of the day for me? I spent all my time, sacrificed for this business, how do I have an exit to this? When does this end? And how do I do it in a way that I can capitalize?” Art Wing: So, I always had some goals for getting EBITDA to a certain place, I had goals. Mainly, out of respect for my dad, I had a digit number that I had in mind that I thought if I did a transaction in that space. When my mother and father passed away, they left me a certain amount. And I had this personal goal that I wanted to leave each of my three children. So, I wanted to leave three times that much so I could pass that on. It was easier because when you make the decisions in advance, when they occur, they’re a lot easier to pull the trigger. For example, the fee on the transaction, the bank that I did it with was 16 days away. And if I would have waited 16 days, I wouldn’t have had to pay them a fee. But I gave my word and they pulled it off in that time. And I didn’t negotiate with them and hold them ransom, I just embraced it, but I made up my mind I was going to do that. But letting it go at the right time, I just want to make sure the stewardship was in place, the values are there. Everybody loves the brand. I mean, I still own 20% in different various forms and vehicles. And honestly, it’s almost less stress and more fun and I really don’t want to leave because we’re at yet another tipping point to where we’re going to grow. We’ve grown double digit for the last eight years. And— Craig Willett: And you said it was fun and less stress more now. What’s more fun about it? Art Wing: Just the day-to-day stuff doesn’t wear on you as much. I don’t know, I can’t really explain it. There’s just a feeling of peace. I know I’ve picked the right partners and we’ve got really, really great people. I got great marketing operations. Our CEO is top notch. And they’re all staying on board and we’ve groomed them to be part of this transition. And so, now, it’s really a good ride. Craig Willett: It just didn’t happen out of the blue. This happened over a period of time. Art Wing: Eight years ago, it started. Craig Willett: Eight years. Art Wing: And then, five years I started getting serious about it. And the last three years has been like a full-time job in my spare time. But— Craig Willett: I think that’s interesting. I think it’s important to recognize that as a business owner, that it’s not just going to happen. Someone’s not going to knock on your door. Although, I think people have knocked on your door through the years asking to buy the company. But to do it right, it takes the right time, the right partner, and it takes an intentional effort. Art Wing: Yeah. And you need to get some good financial advice. Because I’ve had friends over the years that when they clear a million, $2 million, and they came over to my house and use my color copier, so they can make a copy of the check. And they were out of money in nine months because a million or $2 million, if you put in T-Bills, it’s not spinning off anything. You’re actually taking a cut in pay. I started eight years ago doing my estate planning, and where it would go, and was set up enough to—I don’t need insurance or anything like that. But it was all orchestrated. So, I knew what the numbers have to be. But it’s definitely not something you want to guess on, you want to be really well prepared. Craig Willett: Right. So, what is the greatest thing at the end of your career—whether that’s in three to five years, if you retire from this—what’s your biggest takeaway from having run a company of this size? It’s an intimate company because as I watch you walk around in the halls here, call employees by name, they know you, you know them, it is like a family. What do you take from this? What is the mark on your life that this company has had? Art Wing: I think the thing I’m most proud of is that we were always the best, and we will always be the best. That and just the way we conduct ourselves, the way we carry our brand, the way we carry our promises. Most companies would guess we’re 10 to 15 times larger than they think we are. Craig Willett: That’s interesting. Art Wing: But to that point, if you take a ladder that started in 1972, and it’s just a one trick pony, that should be a nice niche business for a long time. And presently, we’re getting ready to pass the second largest ladder company in the world. And we will take that spot. No desire to be the biggest because you have to build a lot of junk that goes with it, and they can have it. But the fact that that actually happened, and just what we’ve built, and there’s just the respect that the industry has for us. And I mean, I’ve had manufacturing arrangements on a handshake for 20 years. I’ve had agreements in Australia and UK on a handshake for 20 years. I mean, we started off with an annual contract and it would evergreen and you’d sign again. And after about the fifth year, they’re like, “Well, you don’t play any games, and we don’t play games, and we just run with no paperwork.” Craig Willett: That’s interesting. So, one other thing, and you can’t escape The Biz Sherpa Podcast without answering this question. It is a tough one. Probably the toughest one. What is your greatest failure that you experienced? And then, what did you learn from it? Art Wing: The greatest failure that we learned is when we launched the infomercial in 2002—a wild success. So, we had capital. And we decided we were going to innovate and branch out. And we designed a line of beautiful products. And then, we went to market with them. And nobody bought any of them. Because what we did was, we built stuff that was cool to us. And so, we basically— Craig Willett: So, you thought, “Hey, we came up with this cool ladder. So, we’re going to come up with something cooler.” Art Wing: So, we basically just took our lumps and took two years’ worth of R&D and all the money that went with it and just dumped it. And then, what we did is we went out into the field and said, “What are your pain points?” And everything that we do, everything that we innovate, everything that has any mojo on it all, we use the voice of the customer. It solves their problem. And then, they just resonate with it really well and it takes off. Craig Willett: And I think that’s probably one of the greatest lessons you can learn. I mean, to demonstrate—you can demonstrate and wow anybody, but if it doesn’t solve a problem, they’re not going to buy anyway. They may be wowed by the demonstration but if it solves a problem that they face on a regular basis, they’re going to buy your product. And I think that’s one of the hardest things of starting a business for business owners is they have a hard time trying to decide, “I can’t be all things to all people. But what can I be and where can I enter?” Because I think it’s the niche. And you mentioned it’s a niche market. You might be becoming the second largest ladder company, but you’re still a niche ladder company. Art Wing: We just have a lot of niches. And I know from your experience in real estate, you’ve done the same thing. You added value in it and you commanded more rent than the guy that’s sitting right next to you. So yeah, we’re able to do that. And to your point as far as pleasing everyone, my dad also used to say that, “There’s many paths to success, but one sure way to failure,” and that is trying to please everyone. So, just please the customers you’ve got, and it’ll grow. Craig Willett: I think that’s great. One of the things that I take away from today, and I appreciate your time. I mean, just to be sitting here in this studio is amazing to me. To know the history of this company and to see where you are today is a great combination to your vision, your family’s vision, and your commitment to product and safety and to the customers. And I think putting customers first is very important. The other thing that I love about things that you talked about today is being able to have that vision and be able to carry it out. To be able to find people’s pain point and be able to solve that for them. Because that really brings satisfaction. Not just to them but I’m sure to you. When you have people call you up going, “Hey, this week, it saved this many lives, or it helped this many people,” that’s probably more rewarding than the dollars it flowed into the bank. Art Wing: Yeah. If you’re selling a commodity product, and you’re not adding any value, the only thing that moves the needle is price. And you will lose at that game. If you have something that’s innovative, or you can add some more features or safety or whatnot—even with your real estate things—price moves secondary. It sounds really small, but it’s a huge advantage when you can do that. Craig Willett: Right. And the other thing I liked about what you said is your dad said you can sell them anything. You can say anything you want, but you have to tell the truth. And you know what, I think the truth resonates. And that’s what I think really sells. When the customer can identify with your product and realize that you care about them, all of a sudden, price does become secondary. And I’m glad because it’s a philosophy I’ve had most of my life. But boy, you’ve done it in a big way here. And I really appreciate that. Art, thanks for taking the time— Art Wing: My pleasure. Craig Willett: —to spend the afternoon with me. Art Wing: Good to see you again. Craig Willett: It’s been wonderful to get to see you again. This is Craig Willett, The Biz Sherpa. I’m glad you joined me today at Little Giant Ladder Systems. What a great company. What a great story. And I hope there’s a lot for all of us to learn from this. Thank you for joining us. Speaker 1: Be sure to go to our website to access the resources related to this episode at www.BizSherpa.co. If you enjoyed this show, tell your friends about us and be sure to rate our podcast. Craig would like to hear from you, so share your thoughts in the Facebook community @BizSherpa.co. Follow us on Twitter @BizSherpa_co and on Instagram @BizSherpa.co.

Avery is a spunky 9-year-old Canadian girl who loves to express herself with art. She pours her heart into every piece that she creates and is looking forward to sharing her heart with all of you!Check Out Avery's Art Connect With Katrina:Grab my FREE Guide over at my Facebook Group, Guiding Parents with KidpreneursFREE GUIDE: 14 Top Tips For Parents To Kick Start Their Child's Entrepreneurial Journey.Follow Katrina on FacebookFollow Katrina on Instagram Make sure to subscribe to the show, I release a new episode every Tuesday morning.

Eric rants about how infuriating ever auto parts store is. Andrew is so loud he needs to stand 8ft away from the microphone at all times. Jimmy tells the time he lost a finger tip in a black out. Eric and Jimmy teach Andrew what a vector is. please go comment on iTunes podcast thank you!!!!

Chief Financial Officer and CEO of AJW Leasing of the AJW Group Ian joined AJW in 2011 after eleven years in investment banking, having financed several billion dollars' worth of aircraft, rail, marine and infrastructure assets across the globe. As Treasurer and Chief Investment Officer of AJW Group, he is responsible for the group's overall financial strategy, planning, analysis and corporate development. In addition, Ian manages AJW Group's funding relationships across all business lines. As Chief Executive Officer of AJW Capital, Ian is responsible for sourcing, execution and oversight of all firm transactions as well as the Company's overall strategy and development. Prior to joining AJW, Ian worked for the Seabury Group in Hong Kong where he opened and developed the firm's first office in Asia. Ian also spent eight years in asset finance with the Allco Finance Group, having joined them from KPMG. Ian has a JD from New York Law School and a BA from Middlebury College. Ian is also involved with the hospitality industry and is the owner of Little Giant Restaurant, based in Portland, Maine. The restaurant was included in Bon Appétit's 2018 Restaurant City of the Year and their bar program was named by GQ as one of the best new bars in America in 2018. Not only does Ian provide Maine with delicious food through his restaurant, but he also creates solutions to combating food insecurity in Maine. As co-founder of Cooking for Community, Ian helps to lead the grassroots organization that raises money to hire local restaurants that need work to prepare healthy meals for people who need food, using locally sourced ingredients whenever possible. Don't forget to check out my book that inspired this podcast series, The Caring Economy: How to Win With Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/toby-usnik/support

Jennifer Gunn has been a Chicago Symphony Orchestra member since 2005, performing on the flute and piccolo. She shares the dramatic story of how she won the audition for her position and pays tribute to Walfrid Kujala, her famous predecessor. She also gives advice to aspiring performers; explains how she prepares her parts in advance of rehearsals; and talks about why she loves the live CSO concert experience.