Podcast appearances and mentions of dora metrics

AI that talks is easy, but AI that acts securely is where everything breaks down. We're joined by Alex Salazar, CEO of Arcade, to confront the massive and often underestimated gap between a flashy AI demo and a production-ready system. Drawing from his team's own pivot from building agents to building the tools that secure them, he explains why a working demo is only 1% of the journey. Alex breaks down the four "demo killers" that cause most agent projects to fail: inconsistency, security flaws, prohibitive costs, and high latency.Alex reveals the counterintuitive solution his team discovered: the key to making non-deterministic AI reliable is to dial up determinism. Learn why giving an AI a constrained set of intention-based tools - like a calculator or a multiple-choice test - dramatically reduces errors and solves critical security challenges that plague open-ended systems. He explains why you can't just wrap existing APIs and must instead build custom, workflow-centric tools for your agents. This is an essential listen for anyone who wants to build AI that doesn't just talk, but acts securely on behalf of your users.Check out:Register now: Closing the AI gap: Exceeding executive expectations for AI productivityFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Learn more about Arcade: Arcade.devArcade's YouTube Channel: Watch examples and walkthroughs on building agentsConnect with Alex Salazar: LinkedInReferenced in today's show:Google avoids break-up but must share data with rivals Welcoming The Browser Company to Atlassian "~40% of daily code written at Coinbase is AI-generated. I want to get it to >50% by October." on X Crushing JIRA tickets is a party trick, not a path to impact Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

CTO Series: Toni Sallanmaa on Scaling Engineering Teams and Aligning Tech with Business Goals In this BONUS episode, we explore the journey of scaling technology teams and maintaining alignment between engineering and business objectives with Toni Sallanmaa, CTO at Funidata. Toni shares invaluable insights from leading the development of Sisu, a cutting-edge student information system serving over 100,000 Finnish university users, and discusses practical strategies for growing engineering organizations while preserving company culture. The Genesis of Leadership in Technology "I understood what I was really responsible for. I'm interested in the business we are running—the business adds meaning to the work." Toni's approach to technology leadership was fundamentally shaped by a pivotal moment early in his career when he first gained influence over system development and technology choices. After working with large-scale systems for 20 years, this moment of responsibility revelation transformed his perspective from purely technical to business-focused. He emphasizes that infinite curiosity drives success in tech businesses, and understanding the business context gives meaningful purpose to technical work. Bridging the Gap Between Tech and Product "Don't separate Tech from Product. We established a common language between product and technology people." One of Toni's most significant insights centers on eliminating the traditional divide between technology and product teams. As Funidata grew from a small startup to a 70-person organization, the challenges of maintaining alignment became apparent. Their solution involved several key practices: Teaching developers the language of the product domain  Banning confusing technical terms that create communication barriers Workshopping product language to ensure clarity Keeping entity names deliberately vague until true understanding emerges This approach draws heavily from Domain Driven Design principles, creating a unified vocabulary that enables seamless collaboration. Collaborative Planning and Transparency "We use transparency as a collaboration technique. Every team sees what's being proposed as a goal for the next quarter." Funidata implements a unique "marketplace of goals" approach during their quarterly big room planning sessions. Rather than using scaled agile frameworks, they focus on transparency and collaborative goal-setting. Teams present their high-level quarterly plans to each other, creating visibility across the organization. Product owners are embedded within teams, keeping communication distances short and ensuring alignment between technical execution and business objectives. Future-Forward Roadmapping "We talk about the higher level ideas regularly, but let them bubble up from the community. We hold internal hackathons." Toni's approach to roadmapping balances strategic vision with grassroots innovation. They maintain an internal technology roadmap that addresses emerging trends like AI, while allowing ideas to organically emerge from the engineering community. Internal hackathons serve as catalysts for innovation, providing structured opportunities for teams to explore new technologies and approaches that might inform future roadmap decisions. Scaling Challenges and Cultural Preservation "The biggest challenge is not technology, it was the rapid scaling of technology teams. When you scale up, keep the culture in mind." The most significant challenge Toni faced wasn't technical but organizational—rapidly scaling teams while preserving company culture. Growing from 10 to 50 people required evolving processes, from establishing internal forums for architectural discussions to implementing continuous integration flows. The key was identifying pain points proactively and maintaining open discussions with team members throughout the scaling process. Strengthening company culture became essential to successful growth. AI's Impact on Software Development "Productivity is on the rise. We see opportunities like generating test data, but we have strict requirements for cybersecurity, which puts pressure on code quality." Toni views AI's impact on software development with cautious optimism. While productivity gains are evident, particularly in areas like test data generation, the stringent cybersecurity requirements in their domain mean that AI hasn't yet significantly improved code quality where it matters most. The technology shows promise, but implementation must be carefully considered within the context of security and quality requirements. Measuring Engineering Success "We use DORA and SPACE framework. We measure how much of our work is KTLO (Keep The Lights On) and how much is elective development." Funidata employs both DORA and SPACE frameworks to measure engineering organization success. From SPACE, they particularly focus on measuring software team wellbeing, while also tracking the balance between "Keep The Lights On" (KTLO) work and elective development. Using JIRA connected to a data warehouse, they mine extensive data that serves both leadership decision-making and team improvement efforts, ensuring metrics benefit everyone in the organization. Influential Leadership Resources "The organizational books have been more influential to me than purely technical ones." Toni emphasizes that organizational leadership books have shaped his CTO approach more than technical resources. Two key influences stand out: "Team Topologies" for understanding how to structure and scale engineering teams effectively, and "Radical Candor" for building authentic, productive relationships within the organization. You can find a BONUS episode on Team Topologies with the authors Matthew Skeltton and Manuel Pais. About Toni Sallanmaa Toni leads technology and engineering at Funidata, developing Sisu—a cutting-edge student information system serving over 100,000 Finnish university users. Passionate about agile methodologies, system architecture, and software engineering, Toni specializes in technology management, software lifecycle, OOP, and relational databases to deliver innovative, scalable solutions in higher education tech. You can connect with Toni Sallanmaa on LinkedIn.

For decades, the command line has been a developer's staple. But what if its future isn't to be a better terminal, but something else entirely? We're joined by Zach Lloyd, co-founder of Warp, to discuss this groundbreaking shift in developer tooling, sharing his bold vision that the future for developers is neither the IDE nor the terminal, but a new kind of platform built for launching and orchestrating AI agents. Zach explains how Warp is re-imagining the command line as the natural entry point for this evolution, transforming it from a place where you type commands to a place where you write prompts to solve complex problems.Zach dives into the new developer workflow, where the focus moves up a layer of abstraction from the minutiae of flags and syntax to higher-level problem-solving and guiding agents. He argues that by being the platform itself—not just an app running within it—a tool like Warp can provide a far richer and more effective user experience than traditional CLI agents. Discover the new skills developers need in this era, from problem decomposition to clearly expressing intent in natural language.Check out:AI code review tools: 2025 evaluation guideFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Try Warp: warp.devWarp's YouTube Channel: Check out Zach's live streams and product videosConnect with Zach: LinkedIn | X (formerly Twitter)Connect with Brooke: LinkedInReferenced in today's show:Team OKRs in ActionIn the Age of AI, some tech leaders think communications degrees may actually be more valuable than computer science degreesThoughts on Motivation and My 40-Year CareerAI, Ads & the Fight for Attention: Infactory Featured in Ad AgeIntroducing pay per crawl: Enabling content owners to charge AI crawlers for accessSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

First, there was vibe coding. Now, get ready for "vibe entrepreneurship." Andrew McNamara, Director of Applied Machine Learning at Shopify, joins us to explain how his team is making this new era of business a reality. He shares the vision behind Shopify Sidekick, an AI co-founder designed to empower merchants by acting as their on-demand e-commerce expert. Drawing on his 16-year journey building AI assistants, Andrew reveals what it truly takes to create an AI tool that customers can trust with their livelihood.He shares a critical insight from his applied research background: the hardest and most important part of building production-ready AI isn't the model, but the evaluation ("eval") system. Andrew breaks down Shopify's innovative approach of using an LLM-as-a-judge to measure how well they're fulfilling user goals, not just executing features. This conversation is a definitive guide to creating high-trust AI systems and offers a powerful glimpse into the future of commerce.Check out:Register now: Closing the AI gap: Exceeding executive expectations for AI productivityFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Follow Andrew on XFollow Andrew on LinkedInAndrew's Talk at ICMLLearn more about Shopify SidekickFollow Fatima on LinkedInReferenced in today's show:The Economics of Software Innovation“AI First” and the Bus Factor of 0GitLab 18.3 released with Duo Agent Platform in Visual Studio (Beta) and Embedded viewsSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

The single biggest predictor of success with AI isn't the model you choose, it's the DevOps culture you've already built. Martin Woodward, VP of Developer Relations at GitHub - and the sixth person to ever use Copilot - joins us to explain why this surprising insight is key to the new era of autonomous coding agents. He traces the evolution of GitHub Copilot from a simple autocomplete to a powerful agent that opens its own pull requests, arguing that AI's true power is as a massive accelerant for the iterative loops high-performing teams have already perfected.Martin explains that teams with strong guardrails for shipping quickly and safely are best equipped to leverage this AI revolution because they can trust the accelerated output. He also reveals how top teams use the key technique of custom instructions to guide Copilot toward writing the code of the future, not just mimicking the code of the past. This conversation uncovers how new agentic workflows are 'tricking' developers into improving their communication and documentation skills, providing a crucial look at the cultural foundations required to thrive in the AI-accelerated enterprise.Check out:AI code review tools: 2025 evaluation guideFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Martin's GitHub Galaxy Keynote: Watch "The AI-Accelerated Enterprise”GitHub Copilot:  Learn more about the tools and featuresGitHub Universe Conference: Look out for announcements for the upcoming conferenceConnect with Martin:  Martin's Social Media Hub (Martin.Social)Connect with Erika on LinkedIn Referenced in today's show:GPT-5: Overdue, overhyped and underwhelming. And that's not the worst of it.Auf Wiedersehen, GitHub ♥️I Tried Every Todo App and Ended Up With a .txt File[BUG] Claude says "You're absolutely right!" about everything · Issue #3382 Why MCP's Disregard for 40 Years of RPC Best Practices Will Burn EnterprisesSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Derek Ferguson from The Fitch Group returns to share how his team of 600+ developers leverages generative AI tools like Amazon's CodeWhisperer and implements DORA metrics to boost productivity and team health. In this second part of the conversation, he delves into the transformative impact of these tools and the innovative strategies driving adoption and success at scale. Listen to Derek's experiences in introducing cutting-edge tools to a large organization, his lessons in fostering experimentation, and the surprising parallels between today's AI adoption and the internet boom. From the role of community practices versus centers of excellence to pragmatic advice on technology adoption, this episode is packed with actionable insights for leaders and developers alike. Stick around for Derek's perspective on the evolving role of technologists in an AI-driven world and how music creation intersects with his tech expertise. Inside the episode… • Exploring generative AI for software development and its transformative potential. • Implementing DORA metrics to boost productivity and enhance team alignment. • Lessons learned from scaling technology practices across large organizations. • The balance between prescriptive guidance and fostering creativity in teams. • Insights into creating impactful developer communities of practice. Mentioned in this episode • Generative AI tools (e.g., Amazon's CodeWhisperer) • DORA metrics (DevOps Research and Assessment) • Tools for music and tech crossover (e.g., RipX, Replicate) Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow.   Follow the Pod Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/convergence-podcast/ X: https://twitter.com/podconvergence Instagram: @podconvergence Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow.   Follow the Pod Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/convergence-podcast/ X: https://twitter.com/podconvergence Instagram: @podconvergence

What's the hardest habit for a top engineer to unlearn in a leadership role? For Minh Nguyen, VP of Engineering at Transcend, it was breaking the "I'll do it myself" mentality. In this episode, she shares her impressive journey from individual contributor to VP at the same high-growth startup, offering a rare and honest look at this challenging transition. Drawing on her background in philosophy, Minh details the hard-won lessons of reorienting from hands-on coding to high-impact leadership, from learning to delegate to setting a clear, communicable strategy.The conversation then shifts from personal growth to organizational design. Minh dives into the practicalities of scaling, revealing why Transcend structures teams around customer problems instead of technical stacks. She candidly discusses her experience pivoting away from a "catchall" platform team to a more effective, product-focused model. This episode is a deep dive for any leader on building a resilient, high-fidelity engineering culture that thrives under pressure, packed with invaluable insights for navigating the challenges of growth.Check out:The DevEx guide to AI-driven software developmentDownload: The 6 trends shaping the future of AI-driven development Follow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Connect with Minh Nguyen on LinkedInLearn more about Transcend: Transcend.ioConnect with Jennifer Riggins on LinkedInReferenced in today's show:This Start-Up's $20 Billion Sale Died. It Came Fighting Back.Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade website no-crawl directivesIf you're remote, rambleAI promised efficiency. Instead, it's making us work harder.Writing code was never the bottleneck!Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

The rise of AI agents is more than a tooling upgrade - it's a fundamental rewiring of the entire developer experience, with your APIs at the very center. We're joined by Matt DeBergalis, co-founder and then-CTO-now-CEO (congrats Matt!) of Apollo GraphQL, to explore this massive transformation. He introduces the emerging concept of "agent experience," explaining why systems built for human developers are not ready for the unprecedented scale of AI calling APIs.Matt argues that as the old rules of software development get re-evaluated, engineering leaders must rethink their entire stack. He presents a powerful analogy: a structured data layer like a graph is the perfect "left brain" for the "right brain" creativity of LLMs. This provides the semantic precision and guardrails needed for AI to act reliably, enabling a future where user experiences are personalized "to 11" and APIs become the core business asset. This conversation is a crucial guide for leaders on how to prepare by prioritizing higher-level system design, and why clear communication and architecture are becoming far more critical than handwriting code.Check out:The DevEx guide to AI-driven software developmentDownload: The 6 trends shaping the future of AI-driven development Follow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Explore Apollo GraphQL's graph infrastructure and MCP tooling: ApolloDevConnect with Matt on LinkedInConnect with Andrew Boyagi on LinkedInReferenced in today's show:Anthropic caps Claude Code usageOpenAI introduces study modeReady or not, age verification is rolling out across the internetAtlassian research: AI adoption is rising, but friction persistsSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Your AI is learning to lie to you. It's not malicious—it's just trying to be a people-pleaser. This dangerous phenomenon, known as AI sycophancy, is what happens when we train models with outdated incentives.Dr. Tatyana Mamut, an anthropologist, economist, and the CEO of Wayfound, joins us to explain why treating AI like traditional software is a critical mistake. She provides a revolutionary playbook for building AI you can actually trust, starting with how to manage AI agents like employees with clear roles, goals, and performance reviews. She then introduces the radical solution of an "AI supervisor"—an AI that manages other agents to ensure accountability. This all builds toward her vision for the "multi-sapiens workforce," where humans and AI collaborate to build the companies of tomorrow.This is an essential guide for any leader aiming to build the culture and systems necessary to manage AI effectively.Check out:Workshop: The AI upgrade to your SDLCThe DevEx guide to AI-driven software developmentFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Connect with Dr. Tatyana Mamut on LinkedInFollow the latest from Wayfound on LinkedInConnect with Kelly Vaughn on LinkedInKelly's Connect with MeAndrew's Connect with MeReferenced in today's show:Replit deleted a customer's entire production database.Silicon Valley AI Startups Are Embracing China's Controversial ‘996' Work ScheduleI've launched 37 products in 5 years and not doing that againEvaluating LLMs on real long-horizon business tasksSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

This interview was recorded for GOTO Unscripted.https://gotopia.techRead the full transcription of this interview hereRandy Shoup - SVP Engineering at Thrive MarketCharles Humble - Freelance Techie, Podcaster, Editor, Author & ConsultantRESOURCESRandyhttps://bsky.app/profile/randyshoup.bsky.socialhttps://medium.com/@randyshouphttps://x.com/randyshouphttps://github.com/randyshoup-thrivehttps://www.linkedin.com/in/randyshoupCharleshttps://bsky.app/profile/charleshumble.bsky.socialhttps://linkedin.com/in/charleshumblehttps://mastodon.social/@charleshumblehttps://conissaunce.comLinkshttps://se-radio.net/2008/09/episode-109-ebays-architecture-principles-with-randy-shoupDESCRIPTIONCharles Humble sits down with veteran tech leader Randy Shoup, now SVP of Engineering at Thrive Market.Randy discusses Thrive Market's evolution from a 10-year-old monolith to a microservices architecture, emphasizing domain-driven design and agile scaling. Drawing on his experiences at eBay and other tech giants, he explains when to adopt microservices and the importance of continuous delivery and platform engineering for boosting productivity.RECOMMENDED BOOKSSam Newman • Monolith to MicroservicesSam Newman • Building Resilient Distributed SystemsDave Farley & JDigital Disruption with Geoff Nielson Discover how technology is reshaping our lives and livelihoods.Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify Inspiring Tech Leaders - The Technology PodcastInterviews with Tech Leaders and insights on the latest emerging technology trends.Listen on: Apple Podcasts SpotifyBlueskyTwitterInstagramLinkedInFacebookCHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUSJoin this channel to get early access to videos & other perks:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/joinLooking for a unique learning experience?Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.techSUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

Is your team's AI strategy tailored for a fast-moving startup or a high-stakes enterprise? The answer could determine your success or failure. We're rejoined by Itamar Friedman, co-founder and CEO of Qodo, to break down what separates engineering teams that truly thrive with AI from those that are just experimenting, explaining why the path to success is fundamentally different for a startup that needs speed versus a large enterprise that must untangle bottlenecks.Itamar reveals his vision for the evolution from "vibe coding" to a more mature "grounded coding" that relies on structured workflows and rich, automated context. He also points to the trend of dev platform teams as the future "agent keepers" who will own the holistic and safe implementation of AI. Itamar provides an actionable playbook for leaders: map your current processes, identify your biggest bottleneck, and find a specialized AI tool for that specific problem.Check out:The DevEx guide to AI-driven software developmentWorkshop: The AI upgrade to your SDLCFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Learn more about Qodo qodo.aiConnect with Itamar Friedman on LinkedInFollow AI thought leader Andrej KarpathyReferenced in today's show:Announcing the real next chapter of WindsurfI still care about the codeMcDonald's AI Hiring Bot Exposed Millions of Applicants' Data to Hackers Who Tried the Password ‘123456'Meta poaches even more AI talent Block launches a grant program for high impact OSS contributions to gooseSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Is your engineering team shipping more code but creating less business impact?We're joined by Chris Westerhold, Global Practice Director at ThoughtWorks, to confront why engineering waste is so difficult to define and eliminate. He explains that for many teams, the issue isn't a lack of tools but a lack of a clear 'North Star' to align their efforts with real business goals, diving into why so much well-intentioned work results in wasted effort and increased friction.Chris argues that most efficiency problems are rooted in people and processes, not technology, and why a 'systems thinking' approach is crucial for real improvement. He shares insights on balancing developer freedom with platform standardization and the leadership required to build a culture of continuous improvement. Learn why focusing on better outcomes—not just more code—is the key to unlocking your team's true potential.Check out:The DevEx guide to AI-driven software developmentWorkshop: The AI upgrade to your SDLCFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):LinkedIn: Chris WesterholdLearn more at ThoughtWorks.comReferenced in today's show:Atlassian research: AI adoption is rising, but friction persistsThe New Skill in AI is Not Prompting, It's Context EngineeringIntroducing pay per crawl: enabling content owners to charge AI crawlers for access Meta poached Apple's head of foundation models with $200M offer - 9to5Mac OpenAI Poaches 4 High-Ranking Engineers From Tesla, xAI, and Meta | WIRED Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

What happens when two experienced CTOs sit down to debunk the latest tech trends? Raz Schweiger-Shuty, CTO at auxmoney, joins Tobi for an unfiltered discussion about the hypes, myths, and wastes of resources that plague modern tech companies. After taking over a 17-year-old fintech platform with no prior CTO, Raz made controversial decisions that flew in the face of conventional wisdom: stopping a microservices migration, questioning Kubernetes adoption, and focusing on measurable business value over engineering trends. His ""dinosaur CTO"" perspective offers a refreshing antidote to tech hype. This conversation cuts through the noise with practical insights on: •

You've bought the AI tools, but are you seeing the promised productivity gains? Join Dev Interrupted hosts Dan Lines and Ben Lloyd Pearson, as they break down the fundamental shift from AI coding assistants to intelligent, agentic systems. They discuss the key findings from their new guide, "The Six Trends Shaping the Future of AI-Driven Development," and challenge the common misconception that simply buying tools guarantees success by explaining why sustainable AI transformation depends less on better prompting and more on building better systems.Dan and Ben reveal the foundational pillars required for AI adoption, from creating unified knowledge sources to modernizing your infrastructure for agentic workflows. Learn why the future lies in moving from isolated tools to fully orchestrated systems where AI agents can reason and operate across the entire software delivery lifecycle. This episode offers a strategic playbook for engineering leaders aiming to build a successful and sustainable AI strategy for 2025 and beyond.Check out:Download: The 6 trends shaping the future of AI-driven development Workshop: The AI upgrade to your SDLCFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow DanReferenced in today's show:The Engineering Leadership Report 2025MCP: An (Accidentally) Universal Plugin SystemOpenAI Leadership Responds to Meta Offers: ‘Someone Has Broken Into Our Home'Grammarly to acquire email startup Superhuman in AI platform pushSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

If you're still building products only for humans, you're already missing out on a massive new customer base: AI agents. Joining Dev Interrupted is Andrew Hamilton, co-founder and CTO of Layer (a first-of-it's kind MCP agency) to unravel this monumental shift in how products will be discovered and consumed. He dives into how AI agents are rapidly evolving from developer tools to direct consumers of APIs and products, with new standards like the MCP spearheading this transformation by effectively creating an "app store for LLMs." This evolution demands a complete rethink of product design, packaging, and user experience for an entirely new kind of user.Andrew educates us about how successfully leveraging MCP isn't about a simple one-to-one API mapping, but about thoughtfully designing an "agent experience" based on key user workflows and providing pre-packaged capabilities. He shares insights on identifying good MCP candidates, the importance of experimentation in this fast-moving space, and how tools like Layer are defining the frontier of agent-accessible tooling.Check out:The DevEx guide to AI-driven software developmentDownload: The 6 trends shaping the future of AI-driven development Follow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):LinkedIn: Andrew HamiltonLearn more about Layer: buildwithlayer.comReferenced in today's show:Google Cloud donates A2A to Linux FoundationGemini CLI: your open-source AI agent Meta poaches OpenAI researchersAirtable as the AI-native appSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

What if creating a professional video for your business was as simple as a single click?We're joined by Kabir Bedi, Head of Product for Image and Video Generation at Amazon Ads, to discuss how generative AI is making that a reality. He provides an inside look at Amazon's mission to democratize video advertising, empowering everyone from mom-and-pop shops to large enterprises with their innovative video generator that evolved from simply showing products to showcasing them in realistic, multi-scene lifestyle settings.Kabir shares key insights into the engineering culture that powers this innovation, built on deep customer obsession and a dynamic, experimental mindset. He explains why bringing the entire team—including engineers and scientists—into direct conversations with users was a game-changer for their development process. Plus, listen as Kabir explains why a "learn and be curious" mindset is the key to thriving in this new landscape of AI-driven product development.Check out:The DevEx guide to AI-driven software developmentDownload: The 6 trends shaping the future of AI-driven development Follow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Follow Kabir on LinkedInLearn more on the About Amazon Blog and the Amazon Ads BlogReferenced in today's show:Meta's $100M poaching project“Real strength is not in poaching rather it's in growing, retaining and respecting the people you already have.” -Mohit Malik“Localhost tracking” explained. It could cost Meta 32 billion.Cursor's Bold Hiring Playbook: No AI in Interviews, Just Real Projects and Real PeopleWriting Toy Software Is A JoySupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

What if the traditional engineering career path is being fundamentally rewritten by AI? We're joined by Philipp Schmid, Senior AI Developer Relations Engineer at Google DeepMind, to explore how artificial intelligence is not just a tool, but a force reshaping engineering roles, team dynamics, and the foundational methods of skill development. Philipp, with his background at Hugging Face and now at the cutting edge with Google DeepMind, offers a unique perspective on the rise of AI-native teams and engineers who learn faster, work more broadly, and drive innovation at an unprecedented scale.Philipp offers an inside look at Google DeepMind's engine of AI innovation and breaks down the key differences between Google's flagship Gemini models and the versatile Gemma family of open models, detailing their distinct purposes.We also touch upon exciting takeaways from the recent Google I/O event, including powerful new on-device capabilities and the mind-blowing text-to-video generation with Veo.Finally, Philipp shares practical advice for engineers and their organizations on navigating this AI-driven landscape, emphasizing continuous learning, an adaptable mindset, and how to effectively leverage a diverse AI toolkit to thrive.Check out:Download: The 6 trends shaping the future of AI-driven development Follow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest:Twitter: @philschmidLinkedInGitHub (philschmid)Learn more about Google DeepMind's models: Google AI StudioReferenced in today's show:OpenAI's latest partner: Mattel | LinkedIn I Read All Of Cloudflare's Claude-Generated Commits AI coding assistants aren't really making devs feel more productive - LeadDev Congratulations on creating the one billionth repository on GitHubSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Imagine saving as much as 75 days of work within a six-month period, all through intelligent automation.Building on last week's discussion about the critical shift from passive metrics to active productivity, host Ben Lloyd Pearson and LinearB co-founder Dan Lines now look forward to realities like this: 19% cycle time reduction and reclaiming significant engineering time. They move beyond common narratives surrounding AI to present actionable success stories and strategic approaches for engineering leaders seeking tangible results from their AI initiatives. This concluding episode tackles how to safely and effectively adopt AI across your software development lifecycle. Dan explains the necessity of programmatic rules and control, detailing how LinearB's gitStream technology empowers teams to define precisely when, where, and for whom AI operates. This ranges from AI-assisted code reviews with human oversight for critical services, to enabling senior developers to make judgment calls, and even automating merges for low-risk changes. Ben and Dan also explore the exciting future of agentic AI workflows, where AI agents could manage tasks from design and Jira story creation to coding and deployment, making developer control even more critical. Check out:The DevEx guide to AI-driven software developmentSurvey: Discover Your AI Collaboration StyleFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewReferenced in today's show:The Pentagon launched a military-grade Y Combinator, signaling that defense tech is officially cool on college campusesJapan Post launches 'digital address' systemReddit sues Anthropic for scrapingMy AI Skeptic Friends Are All NutsSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Are your teams feeling the intense pressure to "produce more" in an era increasingly dominated by AI?Join hosts Ben Lloyd Pearson and Dan Lines as they unpack a major shift in how engineering organizations must now approach productivity. Dan reveals the urgent challenges he hears directly from CTOs and VPs, who are grappling with how to define their AI strategy for genuine productivity gain, accurately measure its true impact, and understand the resulting implications for their workforce.In this episode, Ben and Dan explore why traditional software engineering intelligence (simply having metrics and information) is no longer sufficient in 2025. Together, they explore productivity's nuanced meaning and discover how organizations can shift from passive data observation to an active improvement mindset, and get a look at what defines a developer productivity insights platform.Check out:Register for Beyond Copilot: What's Next for AI in Software DevelopmentSurvey: Discover Your AI Collaboration StyleFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewReferenced in today's show:Why Your AI Coding Assistant Keeps Doing It Wrong, and How To Fix ItAs a developer, my most important tools are a pen and a notebookThe problem with shadow developmentSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

What can ancient languages and epic poems teach us about building resilient tech and future-proof teams?Host Andrew Zigler welcomes Matt Greenwood, Chief Innovation Officer of Two Sigma, for a conversation that uniquely blends their shared background in classical languages with over two decades of Matt's experience at the forefront of financial technology. Matt unveils how this classical training has profoundly shaped his approach to building enduring innovation, fostering a resilient company culture, and leading with empathy.Matt explains his vision for building and evolving innovation via platforms, alongside his strategies for effective goal-setting and fostering deep conceptual understanding in his team. He offers invaluable lessons on the importance of forgiving the decisions of our past selves, adapting processes for evolving needs, and thoughtfully engaging with AI to augment human creativity. This conversation is a masterclass in strategic foresight, cultivating a constant hunger for learning, and building an adaptable organization ready for whatever the future holds.Check out:Beyond Copilot: What's Next for AI in Software DevelopmentSurvey: Discover Your AI Collaboration StyleFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Website: twosigma.comLinkedIn: Matt GreenwoodReferenced in today's show:Google I/OMicrosoft BuildCode with ClaudeJava at 30: The Genius Behind the Code That Changed TechSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

What happens when the person trained to spot burnout becomes its next victim?Kelly Vaughn is a Senior Engineering Manager at Zapier, the author of the After Burnout Substack, and a trained therapist. She joins hosts Ben and Andrew to share her incredibly candid journey of discovering burnout in herself. Kelly reveals how she (despite her professional understanding of burnout's mechanisms) found herself deep in its grip, recounting the slow realizations like dwindling passion, increasing cynicism, and distinct physical tolls like disrupted sleep and a loss of hunger cues.This raw conversation offers vital lessons for anyone in a high-pressure career (and let's face it: that's all of us!). As the tech landscape accelerates with AI, Kelly shares insights on managing its pressures and opportunities. She redefines ambitions for herself alongside the non-negotiables she established for her own well-being when seeking her new role. Listeners will gain powerful insights into identifying their own limits, the courage for pivotal changes, and integrating new demands without self-sacrifice.Check out:AI Code Reviews: Automate AI code reviews for every PRSurvey: Discover Your AI Collaboration StyleFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Personal Website: kvlly.com"After Burnout" Newsletter: afterburnout.co"The Modern Leader" Newsletter: modernleader.isKelly's Article: On burnout, quitting, and redefining what mattersReferenced in today's show:The FAA has resorted to buying parts on eBay because its equipment is so old, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy says 2025-05-11 air traffic controlDOGE Is in Its AI EraIRS hopes to replace fired enforcement workers with AI Microsoft lays off about 3% of its workforce in what one executive calls a ‘day with a loSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Still stuck in a reactive loop with incident response, only fixing problems after they happen? JJ Tang, Co-founder and CEO of Rootly, joins host Andrew Zigler to reveal how to shift beyond reactive, leveraging powerful AI and an often-underestimated skill in engineering: genuine customer empathy. Discover how these elements are crucial for navigating the complexities of modern infrastructure and shaping the future of incident management.JJ explores the forefront of incident response automation, discussing how to integrate shiny new tech like AI safely and why deep customer understanding is key to building trust and reliability. Learn about the common pitfalls leaders face, the cultural shifts needed for proactive reliability, and how teams can make our digital world safer.Check out:Beyond Copilot: What's Next for AI in Software DevelopmentSurvey: Discover Your AI Collaboration StyleFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):LinkedIn: JJ TangWebsite: rootly.comReferenced in today's show:OpenAI agrees to buy Windsurf for about $3 billion, Bloomberg News reportsAmazon launches first Kuiper internet satellites, taking on StarlinkAvoiding Skill Atrophy in the Age of AIWhy developers and their bosses disagree over generative AISupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Is front-end vs. back-end an antiquated way to structure engineering teams? With AI augmenting skills, a new model is emerging: the product engineer.This week, Andrew sits down with Lee Robinson, VP of Product at Vercel to crack open the future of the web. As a respected educator and voice in the webdev community (check out his YouTube!), Lee shares his unique perspective on building both cutting-edge tools and high-performing teams.As the VP of Product, Lee charts the evolution of developer roles and illustrates for us the rise of "product engineers" who own features end-to-end. Learn how AI tools are not just augmenting specialists but enabling designers, PMs, and founders to build "personal software." We also cover changing team dynamics and get Lee's advice on navigating the hiring process in the AI era, including: why personalization is key for candidates, how managers can spot authenticity (hint: AI-generated cover letters are obvious!), and why building in public is critical for career growth today.Check out:Beyond Copilot: What's Next for AI in Software DevelopmentSurvey: Discover Your AI Collaboration StyleFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Website: leerob.comYouTube: @leerobLinkedIn: Lee RobinsonVercel: vercel.comNext.js: nextjs.orgv0 by Vercel: v0.dev Referenced in today's show:This week in social, we noticed: AIDuolingo has an AI mandate tooGoogle Just Launched an AI-Powered Duolingo AlternativeIntel CEO announces layoffs, restructuring, $1.5 billion in cost reductions, expanded return to office mandate | Tom's HardwareSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

We've spent decades teaching ourselves to communicate with computers via text and clicks. Now, computers are learning to perceive the world like us: through sight and sound. What happens when software needs to sense, interpret, and act in real-time using voice and vision?This week, Andrew sits down with Russ d'Sa, Co-founder and CEO of LiveKit, whose technology acts as the crucial infrastructure enabling machines to interact using real-time voice and vision, impacting everything from ChatGPT to critical 911 responses.Explore the transition from text-based protocols to rich, real-time data streams. Russ discusses LiveKit's role in this evolution, the profound implications of AI gaining sensory input, the trajectory from co-pilots to agents, and the unique hurdles engineers face when building for a world beyond simple text transfers.Check out:AI Code Reviews: An Engineering Leader's Survival GuideSurvey: Discover Your AI Collaboration StyleFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Website: livekit.ioGitHub: github.com/livekitX: x.com/livekitRuss: x.com/dsaReferenced in today's show:The Rise of Slopsquatting: How AI Hallucinations Are Fueling a New Class of Supply Chain AttacksHas the VSCode C/C++ Extension been blocked?OpenAI tells judge it would buy Chrome from GoogleChain-of-Vibes | Pete Hodgson Seattle crosswalk signals with deepfake Bezos audio may have been hacked with just a cellphone Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Think building killer APIs like Stripe or Twilio is purely a technical feat? Think again.This week, we dive into why crafting successful APIs is fundamentally an organizational challenge, demanding internal excellence long before code is deployed. Sagar Batchu, co-founder and CEO of Speakeasy, joins us to unpack the crucial role of ownership, design principles, and why even internal APIs benefit from treating them like first-class products. Discover how Conway's Law dictates your API's fate and why achieving that coveted developer experience starts with your company's structure.Getting these foundations right is more critical than ever, as the landscape now faces a dramatic shift with the rise of LLMs and agentic AI. This potentially multiplies API usage and introduces the concept of "Agent Experience" (AX), demanding even greater rigor around clear standards, documentation, and metrics like "Time to First 200." Sagar also explores the emerging Model Context Protocol (MCP) and explains why focusing on developer productivity today prepares you for the AI-driven future of tomorrow.Check out:AI Features Demo: The Future of Productivity Is AI-DrivenSurvey: Discover Your AI Collaboration StyleFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Website: speakeasy.comLinkedIn: SpeakeasyX: @speakeasydevReferenced in today's show:It costs nothing to be polite unless you're talking to ChatGPT - then it costs tens of millionsAnnouncing the Agent2Agent Protocol (A2A) - Google Developers Blog A Deep Dive Into MCP and the Future of AI ToolingSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

When it comes to securing software, most developers feel like they're playing catch-up instead of setting the rules.Tanya Janca (SheHacksPurple), author of "Alice and Bob Learn Secure Coding," brings her 28 years of IT and security expertise—spanning counter-terrorism to enterprise training—to Dev Interrupted. She unpacks the common pitfalls teams face when security is treated as an afterthought, highlighting the developer frustration of being held accountable for security without the tools or knowledge needed to succeed.Explore how transforming security from a final gate into an ongoing practice saves money, reduces conflict, and builds better software through clear requirements and true developer empowerment. Tanya provides concrete advice for developers and leaders on creating internal knowledge libraries, fostering continuous learning habits, and critically evaluating AI-generated code to ensure it meets security standards. Speaking of AI's growing role, we're curious how it's reshaping workflows across the industry. Share your own experiences with AI adoption by taking our quick survey to discover your spot on the adoption graph (and what you can do to level up).Check out:Beyond Copilot: Gaining the AI AdvantageSurvey: Discover Your AI Collaboration StyleFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Website: SheHacksPurpleLinkedIn: Tanya JancaBook: Alice and Bob Learn Secure CodingReferenced in today's show:Shopify CEO says staffers need to prove jobs can't be done by AI before asking for more headcountAnthropic flips the script on AI in education: Claude's Learning Mode makes students do the thinkingCelebrate 50 years of Microsoft with the company's original source codeSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Is your company rushing headlong into AI, only to find it's a 'square peg in a round hole'?This week, Andrew tackles the critical issue of building trust in AI systems with Brooke Hartley Moy, CEO and co-founder of Infactory.Brooke, with her experience at companies like Google and Samsung, cuts through the hype and reveals the biggest misconceptions businesses have about AI. We dive into the 'black box' problem, the importance of high-quality data, and why not all AI is created equal.From seating Matthew McConaughey in the rain to high-stakes medical decisions, we explore the crucial role of domain expertise and the need to move beyond LLM-centric thinking. If you're an engineering leader grappling with AI implementation, this episode is your essential guide to building trustworthy and impactful AI systems.Check out:The Future of Productivity Is AI-DrivenFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):infactory.aiBrooke Hartley MoyReferenced in today's show:OpenAI declares AI race “over” if training on copyrighted works isn't fair useExploring Generative AI - Birgitta BöckelerAI is "tearing apart" companies, survey findsSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

AI is evolving at a breakneck speed, leaving engineering leaders with a critical dilemma: innovate or fall behind. But how do you experiment with AI without risking your credibility? Andrew Zigler sits down with Adnan Ijaz, Director of Product Management for Next Gen Developer Experience at AWS, to unpack the power of AI agents. Together they discuss how to leverage autonomous AI in your development workflow, and learn from real-world examples like Amazon Q.Dive into the evolving role of the developer and discover how to mentor your AI, not just use it. It's time to shift from task-oriented coding to strategic architecture, and this episode shows you how.But first, co-host Dan Lines frames the conversation by discussing the shift towards measuring the concrete benefits of AI tools in development, rather than just their potential. Dan also provides examples of how to set realistic expectations for AI implementation by focusing on specific tasks and measuring both individual and workflow improvements, highlighting the need for overall workflow optimization.Check out:Translating DevEx to the Board Beyond the DORA FrameworksIntroducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStreamFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Adnan IjazAmazon Q DeveloperSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Imagine a world where your engineering team ships features at lightning speed, and they're genuinely happy doing it. Sounds like a fantasy? It doesn't have to be. This week, we're diving into the secrets of building high-performing, happy engineering teams with Thanos Diacakis, a fractional CTO and engineering coach with over 25 years of experience spanning companies like Uber, where he optimizes software engineering teams and drives technical innovation.Thanos reveals the common mental models that hold teams back, why 'technical debt' is a myth, and how to break free from the 'feature factory' mindset. Together, he and Andrew explore practical strategies for achieving engineering excellence, from mastering iterations to managing complexity, and discover how to build a culture where velocity and happiness go hand in hand. Check out:Translating DevEx to the Board Beyond the DORA FrameworksIntroducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStreamFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Thanos Diacakiswww.cosmicteacups.comReferenced in today's show:FOSS infrastructure is under attack by AI companiesProgramming is dying. Software development is booming.1 in 3 Americans say they have layoff anxietySupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

The promise of Test Driven Development (or TDD) remains unfulfilled. Like many other forms of aspirational development, the practice has fallen victim to countless buzzword cycles. What if the answer is already in our toolbox?This week, host Andrew Zigler sits down with Animesh Mishra, Senior Solutions Engineer at Diffblue, to unpack the gap between TDD's theoretical appeal and its practical challenges. Animesh draws from his extensive experience to explain how deterministic AI can address the key challenges of building trust in AI for testing. These aren't LLMs of today, but foundational machine learning models that can evaluate all possible branches of a piece of code to write test coverage for it. Imagine writing two years worth of tests for a legacy codebase… in two hours… with no errors!If you enjoyed this conversation about the gaps between theory and execution in engineering culture, be sure to check out last week's chat with David Mytton about shift left adoption by engineering teams.Check out:Translating DevEx to the Board Beyond the DORA FrameworksIntroducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStreamFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):www.diffblue.comX: diffbluehqLinkedIn: DiffblueAnimesh MishraSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

If you're tired of hearing "shift left" in DevSecOps and seeing little real change, you're not alone.In this episode, David Mytton (CEO of ArcJet, founder of Console.dev) breaks down why traditional approaches to developer security often fail. He reveals the core conflict between developers (who want to build fast) and security teams (who want to mitigate risk), and explains why this misalignment of incentives can be detrimental for your software. Learn why simply handing devs more security tools isn't enough.David shares his insights from years of experience reviewing developer tools and building security products. He discusses the importance of developer-centric design, the power of the right incentives, and the need for security solutions that seamlessly integrate into the developer workflow. Plus, he reveals the secrets to successful developer marketing and why traditional approaches often backfire.Tune in to discover how to foster a security-conscious culture within your engineering team, without stifling innovation or creating unnecessary friction. Learn how to empower developers to build secure software by design, and discover the tools and strategies that are shaping the future of DevSecOps.Check out:Translating DevEx to the Board Beyond the DORA FrameworksIntroducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStreamFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):console.devarcjet.comSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

This week, Andrew Zigler sits down with Dr. Maryam Ashoori, Senior Director of Product Management for watsonx at IBM. Together they discuss the evolving AI stack for enterprise and the growing skill gap challenging developers. Dr. Ashoori shares insights from a recent survey of 1,000 developers, highlighting the need for better tools and strategies to manage the growing AI tool sprawl.The conversation also explores the rise of AI agents, the potential of no-code AI development, and the future of software engineering in an AI-powered world.But first, co-host Dan Lines (COO of LinearB) sets the stakes for engineering leaders everywhere: the future of technical work will evolve with agentic capabilities. Must we all become “AI managers” now?Check out:2025 Software Engineering Benchmarks ReportBeyond the DORA FrameworksIntroducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStreamFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Maryam Ashooriwatsonx.aiSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

This week, Ben and Andrew dive into the (surprisingly?) complex world of calculator apps, analyze how AI is revolutionizing the technical interview, and dissect the emerging “two-tier” economy around AI. What side of the curve does your org fall on?Then, the conversation goes on site to San Francisco, where host Dan Lines hosts Rob Zuber (CTO, CircleCI) and Tara Hernandez (VP of Dev Productivity at MongoDB) for a discussion of LinearB's 2025 Software Engineering Benchmarks Report.We unpack the report's surprising findings on the PR lifecycle, project management hygiene, DORA metrics, code quality, and predictability, with key takeaways for optimizing your engineering team's performance.Be sure to grab your copy of the report to follow along with Dan, Rob & Tara.Check out:2025 Software Engineering Benchmarks ReportBeyond the DORA FrameworksIntroducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStreamFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest(s):Rob ZuberTara HernandezReferenced in today's show:"A calculator app? Anyone could make that."‘Two-tier' AI economy is emerging between startups and corporations, with large organizations falling behind, AWS EMEA chief saysAI Killed The Tech Interview. Now What? | Kane Narraway New Junior Developers Can't Actually CodeSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Ben and Andrew open the show by dissecting why AI can't see gorillas, how big banks are stepping up to attract tech talent, and why focus is becoming the must-have resource for devs.Then, Vikram Chatterji, co-founder and CEO of Galileo, joins Andrew for a discussion on how engineering leaders can future-proof their AI strategy and navigate an emerging dilemma: the pressure to adopt AI to stay competitive, while justifying AI spend and avoiding risky investments.To accomplish this, Vikram emphasizes the importance of establishing clear evaluation frameworks, prioritizing AI use cases based on business needs and understanding your company's unique cultural context when deploying AI.Check out:8 Habits of Highly Productive Engineering TeamsBeyond the DORA FrameworksIntroducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStreamBook a demoFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest:Vikram ChatterjiReferenced in today's show:Your AI can't see gorillasHow banks caught up in the battle for developer talentThe skill of the future is not 'AI', but 'Focus'Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Live from San Francisco, Dev Interrupted explores the future of developer productivity with Ori Keren (CEO, LinearB) and Dharmesh Thakker (General Partner, Battery Ventures). The conversation, recorded before a live audience in San Francisco, examines the exciting possibilities and potential challenges of AI-powered tools, from code completion and review to the more advanced agentic AI.  Moderated by Ben Lloyd Pearson, this episode captures the excitement of the event, including audience Q&A and feedback. Ori and Dharmesh share their insights on how these trends will shape the future of software development over the next 12 to 24 months, offering predictions and practical advice for engineering teams and leaders. Discover how these shifts will impact your work and the broader tech industry.Show Notes:8 Habits of Highly Productive Engineering TeamsBeyond the DORA FrameworksIntroducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStreamBook a demoFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest:Follow Dharmesh ThakkerReferenced in today's show:OpenAI CEO Sam Altman Says They've 'Been on the Wrong Side of HistorySoftware development topics I've changed my mind on after 10 years in the industryChat is a bad UI pattern for development toolsNASA is going to do a Twitch stream from the ISSSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

To open the show, Ben and Andrew dive into the latest headlines about DeepSeek from last week. We answer questions like “why did everyone search ‘Jevons paradox'?” and discuss strategic AI investments from financial giants like Goldman Sachs. These moves underscore the growing importance of strong engineering leadership in the age of AI.Then, Luca Rossi of Refactoring joins us to discuss his latest research. Drawing from a comprehensive survey of engineering professionals (thanks to you!), Luca breaks down the key traits and practices of successful engineering teams, revealing surprising correlations between team happiness, shipping frequency, and recognition by non-technical leadership.Be sure to grab your copy of the report to follow along with today's insights.Show Notes:Dev Interrupted SurveyBeyond the DORA FrameworksIntroducing AI-Powered Code Review with gitStreamBook a demoFollow the hosts:Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow today's guest:Follow LucaReferenced in today's show:IBM cashing in on AIAI Stocks: How DeepSeek Changed Views On U.S.-China Artificial Intelligence Competition | Investor's Business DailyWilliam Stanley JevonsGoldman Sachs hires Amazon exec in senior AI engineering role | ReutersSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Ben and Andrew open the show by discussing the emergence of the DeepSeek AI model, Google's shakeup of the SEO landscape, and speculate on whether or not we're seeing the death of free APIs.Then, Ben sits down with Bernd Ruecker, Co-Founder and Chief Technologist at Camunda, to explore how low code solutions are changing the game for developers. They discuss how these tools allow developers to focus on more complex challenges, and delve into the importance of understanding when to leverage low code versus custom solutions, and the evolving role of developers in a world increasingly driven by automation.Finally, do us a favor and fill out the Dev Interrupted listener survey! You'll be our best friend forever :-)Show Notes:Dev Interrupted SurveyBeyond the DORA Frameworks Workshop (Jan. 29, 30)Follow BenFollow AndrewFollow BerndLearn more at: camunda.comCamundacon 2025Support the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Want to ship better software? Get in the fast lane.This week, hosts Ben Lloyd Pearson and Andrew Ziegler open the episode with a discussion of some of the tech topics dominating the news cycle like Microsoft's restructuring to focus on AI, a potential TikTok ban in the U.S. and a status check on New Year's resolutions. Then, joined by Dan Lines, they shift their focus to the 2025 Engineering Benchmarks Report by LinearB. This in-depth conversation explores the crucial link between developer experience and productivity, the impact of project management hygiene on development, and new metrics like PR maturity and project traceability.Within this data-driven discussion, uncover key insights on how smaller PRs boost velocity and quality, the connection between longer cycle times and increased change failure rates, and the ideal investment profiles for engineering teams.Show Notes:Beyond the DORA Frameworks Workshop (Jan. 29, 30)2025 Engineering BenchmarksWatch Rob Zuber (CircleCI) & Tara Hernandez (MongoDB) explore insights from the 2025 Engineering Benchmarks ReportFollow BenFollow AndrewSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Is your company relying on surveys alone to bridge the gap between developers and managers?  In this episode of Dev Interrupted, host Ben Lloyd Pearson and Dan Lines, COO of LinearB, dive into the perceived misalignment between engineers and their leaders on improving developer experience. Together, they emphasize the importance of data-driven insights over relying solely on surveys, highlighting how quantifiable metrics can illuminate issues like technical debt and build times.  The conversation also touches on the power of setting clear, company-wide goals to boost developer experience and productivity.Next, Conor Bronsdon, in his final episode as host, sits down with Andrew Boyagi, Atlassian's head of DevOps Evangelism. Andrew brings a wealth of knowledge on developer experience, emphasizing the need for transparency, the nuances of measuring productivity, and the crucial role of company culture in aligning development teams with business goals.Show Notes:Beyond the DORA Frameworks Workshop (Jan. 29, 30)2025 Engineering BenchmarksFollow BenFollow ConorFollow AtlassianSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

How do you build a culture that balances operational excellence with developer happiness? By shifting from firefighting to foresight.Kick off Season 5 of Dev Interrupted with hosts Ben Lloyd Pearson, Andrew Zigler, and Dan Lines as they share their New Year's resolutions and welcome Sowmya Subramanian, whose leadership journey spans Google, YouTube, and Oracle, to the show. From redefining metrics like DORA to adapting processes like Fix-It Weeks, Soumya discusses dismantling the “hero” mindset that rewards firefighting, aligning engineering with business priorities, and creating rituals that scale teams without sacrificing creativity.Tune in to learn how Sowmya's holistic approach to metrics, culture, and tooling creates resilient teams and products that scale without breaking a sweat.Show Notes:Beyond the DORA Frameworks Workshop (Jan. 29, 30)2025 Engineering BenchmarksFollow SowmyaFollow BenFollow AndrewSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

It's the end of an era on Dev Interrupted as we say farewell to host Conor Bronsdon and welcome a fresh voice, Andrew Zigler!Join us for a nostalgic trip down memory lane as Conor revisits his favorite interviews and moments from Season 4 and beyond, including discussions on chaos engineering, technical debt, and the human side of managing software engineers. He shares memorable stories from guests like Charity Majors, Rob Zuber, Kelly Vaughn, and many more, while reflecting on the evolution of Dev Interrupted and its impact on the engineering leadership community.But it's not all bittersweet. Get an exclusive sneak peek at the exciting changes coming to Dev Interrupted in 2025. Expect the show to double down on research and data, explore new formats, and even hit the road with live events. Plus, the Dev Interrupted Substack will feature more frequent newsletters, unique analysis of research white papers, and insights from guest writers. You don't want to miss this special episode filled with laughter, reflection, and a surprise holiday-themed game of Would You Rather. The team is taking off the holidays but we'll see you back here on January 7th for the start of Season 5!Show Notes:2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights WebinarKeep up with Conor: SubstackListen to Conor at: Chain of Thought PodcastSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

How can teams unlock elite productivity while navigating the complexities of DevOps? Expert consultant Xing Zhou reveals how DORA metrics—from deployment frequency to change failure rate, drive performance and bridge gaps between leadership and the team members. Xing's impressive career spans companies like Amazon, Pivotal Labs, and Integral. He currently serves as  Xing has led high-performing teams, implemented cutting-edge DevOps strategies, and helped organizations make meaningful progress toward elite DORA benchmarks. Xing and Ashok discuss actionable steps for C-Suite leaders and product teams, focusing on SLAs, CI/CD, behavior-driven development, and event storming workshops to drive alignment and enhance productivity. Packed with real-world examples, this conversation is essential listening for anyone aiming to turn metrics into a reflection of team health and organizational success. Inside the episode... A clear explanation of Dora metrics: what they are and why they matter. How SLAs and SLOs empower teams while aligning with organizational goals. Continuous delivery (CD): balancing technical capability with business priorities. The difference between pull request (PR) and trunk-based development for CI. Behavior-driven development (BDD) and its role in improving test automation. Event storming: how this simple tool drives clarity in business processes. Practical strategies for introducing new practices like BDD or event storming to your team. Mentioned in this episode: Behavior-Driven Development (BDD) Gherkin language for test automation Event storming Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow.   Follow the Pod Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/convergence-podcast/ X: https://twitter.com/podconvergence Instagram: @podconvergence

2025 will test every assumption about how engineering teams work.With the new year fast approaching Ori Keren, CEO of LinearB, has some bold predictions that might surprise you, like why developer productivity could actually go down in 2025.Yep, you read that right.As AI tools flood the market, we might see a dip in both productivity and creativity before the long-term benefits kick in. It's a wake-up call for engineering leaders to rethink how they lead their teams.Ori dives into the trends that'll dominate:- AI's rise- The ever-growing need for cybersecurity- Why DevEx and developer productivity are heading for a showdownHis advice? Stop flying blind. “You can't optimize what you don't measure,” he says.If you're leading an engineering org, this episode is your 2025 game plan: a mix of data-driven decision-making and people-first strategies to stay ahead in a year of change. Don't miss this insightful fusion of qual and quant.Show Notes:Join us at Dev Interrupted Live!2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights WebinarFollow OriFollow BenFollow AndrewSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Derek Ferguson from The Fitch Group returns to share how his team of 600+ developers leverages generative AI tools like Amazon's CodeWhisperer and implements DORA metrics to boost productivity and team health. In this second part of the conversation, he delves into the transformative impact of these tools and the innovative strategies driving adoption and success at scale. Listen to Derek's experiences in introducing cutting-edge tools to a large organization, his lessons in fostering experimentation, and the surprising parallels between today's AI adoption and the internet boom. From the role of community practices versus centers of excellence to pragmatic advice on technology adoption, this episode is packed with actionable insights for leaders and developers alike. Stick around for Derek's perspective on the evolving role of technologists in an AI-driven world and how music creation intersects with his tech expertise. Inside the episode… • Exploring generative AI for software development and its transformative potential. • Implementing DORA metrics to boost productivity and enhance team alignment. • Lessons learned from scaling technology practices across large organizations. • The balance between prescriptive guidance and fostering creativity in teams. • Insights into creating impactful developer communities of practice. Mentioned in this episode • Generative AI tools (e.g., Amazon's CodeWhisperer) • DORA metrics (DevOps Research and Assessment) • Tools for music and tech crossover (e.g., RipX, Replicate) Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow.   Follow the Pod Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/convergence-podcast/ X: https://twitter.com/podconvergence Instagram: @podconvergence  

What's the secret to building better products? Letting engineers drive the vision.This week, host Ben Lloyd Pearson interviews Austin Spiegel, co-founder and CTO of Sift Stack, who previously spent years leading engineering teams at SpaceX. Austin reveals how SpaceX's unique engineering culture, which eliminated the product management layer,  influenced his approach to building Sift Stack, including the implementation of a forward-deployed engineering team.Learn how this approach leads to faster development cycles, happier customers, and more innovative products. Austin also argues that we're entering a new era where the most valuable engineers aren't just skilled coders, but also savvy business thinkers. He believes that as software development becomes easier due to the proliferation of AI, engineers who can connect their technical expertise with a deep understanding of customer needs and market trends will have a significant competitive advantage.Show Notes:2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights WebinarRead The secret to better products? Let engineers drive visionFollow Sift Stack on LinkedInSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Most developers (ourselves included) want to run for the hills when they hear the words “engineering process.” But it turns out, the biggest danger to your team may not be having enough process.You don't have to take our word for it. This week's guest made a believer out of us and we're willing to bet she'll make a believer out of you too. Julianna Lamb, co-founder and CTO of Stytch, understands that engineering processes can be a sensitive subject for developers. But she argues that the right amount of process can actually boost your team's velocity and empower them to take ownership. Julianna shares insights on how to right-size processes for teams, implement effective project life cycles, and address friction points to ensure smooth workflows.Show Notes:Refactoring x Dev Interrupted SurveyLearn more about StytchJulianna's LinkedInJulianna's TwitterSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

This week, Dev Interrupted dives into the 2024 Stack Overflow Developer Survey, revealing a surprising statistic: only 1 in 5 developers are happy in their jobs. Stack Overflow's Senior Analyst of Market Research and Insights, Erin Yepis, joins host Ben Lloyd Pearson to discuss the survey's findings and explore the reasons behind this widespread dissatisfaction. From salary woes and workplace settings to the ever-present burden of technical debt, they dissect the factors impacting developer happiness.Later, Dan Lines offers his perspective, drawing on LinearB's data to pinpoint three key challenges to developer satisfaction. He also shares valuable strategies for tackling technical debt, a growing concern as more companies transform into software-driven businesses.Show Notes:2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights WebinarRefactoring x Dev Interrupted Survey2024 Stack Overflow Developer SurveyCheck out Erin's blogSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

There's AI agents. There's AI tooling. Do either drive business impact or are they just more things your dev team is supposed to stay on top of?Birgitta Boeckeler, Global Lead for AI Assisted Software Delivery at ThoughtWorks, joins the show to discuss the practical applications of AI in software delivery. She shares her research on AI agents, highlights areas where AI hasn't lived up to the hype, and offers concrete examples of useful AI tools for development teams.Dan Lines then joins the conversation to provide his perspective on how engineering leaders can leverage these insights to effectively implement AI within their own teams. He also discusses LinearB's efforts in helping software teams measure the business impact of AI.Show Notes:2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights WebinarRefactoring x Dev Interrupted SurveyBirgitta's LinkedInBirgitta's websiteMartin Fowler MemosSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Open source has transformed software development, but can it do the same for AI?In this episode of Dev Interrupted, Conor Bronsdon talks with Scott McCarty, Senior Principal Product Manager at Red Hat, about the potential of open source AI to revolutionize enterprise DevOps. They discuss the challenges and opportunities of open source AI, including licensing, security, and the need for community-driven development. McCarty argues that open source AI is crucial for building trust and ensuring that AI benefits everyone, not just a select few.Show Notes:2025 Engineering Benchmarks Insights WebinarRefactoring x Dev Interrupted SurveyScott's LinkedInSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever

Everyone knows the era of growth at all costs is over, but where does that leave us? And specifically, where does that leave founders? The answer is straightforward: founders have to start thinking like business people. This week, Conor Bronsdon interviews Ashish Aggarwal, founder and CTO of Productive and an active investor in over 30 companies.Ashish shares his insights on how startups are adapting to the new “efficient growth” environment, why this paradigm shift is an opportunity for founders, and how the pressures of efficiency have created incentives for companies to move towards geo-distributed teams instead of co-located teams.Show Notes:Refactoring x Dev Interrupted SurveyAshish's LinkedIn2024 State of SaaS Consolidation ReportSupport the show: Subscribe to our Substack Leave us a review Subscribe on YouTube Follow us on Twitter or LinkedIn Offers: Learn about Continuous Merge with gitStream Get your DORA Metrics free forever