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[fusion_builder_container hundred_percent="no" equal_height_columns="no" menu_anchor="" hide_on_mobile="small-visibility,medium-visibility,large-visibility" class="" id="" background_color="" background_image="" background_position="center center" background_repeat="no-repeat" fade="no" background_parallax="none" parallax_speed="0.3" video_mp4="" video_webm="" video_ogv="" video_url="" video_aspect_ratio="16:9" video_loop="yes" video_mute="yes" overlay_color="" video_preview_image="" border_size="" border_color="" border_style="solid" padding_top="" padding_bottom="" padding_left="" padding_right=""][fusion_builder_row][fusion_builder_column type="1_1" layout="1_1" background_position="left top" background_color="" border_size="" border_color="" border_style="solid" border_position="all" spacing="yes" background_image="" background_repeat="no-repeat" padding_top="" padding_right="" padding_bottom="" padding_left="" margin_top="0px" margin_bottom="0px" class="" id="" animation_type="" animation_speed="0.3" animation_direction="left" hide_on_mobile="small-visibility,medium-visibility,large-visibility" center_content="no" last="no" min_height="" hover_type="none" link=""][fusion_text] Watch the live interview below [/fusion_text][fusion_youtube id="https://youtu.be/kTE7MhFGjWI " alignment="center" width="" height="" autoplay="false" api_params="&rel=0" hide_on_mobile="small-visibility,medium-visibility,large-visibility" class="" /][/fusion_builder_column][/fusion_builder_row][/fusion_builder_container]   Transcription (was completed by automated process. Please ignore any speech-to-text errors) Hi, I'm Beatty Carmichael, and welcome back to the Get Sellers Calling You Real Estate podcast. And I'm just really excited about today's call because I get to interview another wonderful set of agents with an amazing story, and who are actually clients of ours. Tom and Nancy Cleppe from Franklin, Tennessee. And I'm just really excited about today's call because I was able to speak with Tom and Nancy earlier. They have a really neat business and story. And I really wanted you guys to hear it. So, Tom and Nancy, how are you guys doing?   [00:00:39] Hi, Beatty, how are you? I am very blessed. We're lucky. Blessed as well.   [00:00:46] Well, very good. Very good. And I want to talk about those blessings in a moment. So they'll be great. Just also, a quick reminder for those who are listening and watching, watching, this is an Internet call. So if there are any type of Internet interruptions, just please part in this part in those four for that. So tell me, Nancy, I'd love just real quickly, just a little story about your real estate career. I know you're in the Franklin area, but maybe how long have you been selling just anything about you guys? Just the introduction of who you guys are.   [00:01:23] Nancy looks at me like I should start right away then. So so Nancy had been in business, in real estate business before I was eight years before I got involved in it. And she said to me, one day, you should get into real estate. This is before we were married, actually. And I said, no, I don't want to work weekends. We can build our business. We don't have to work weekends. So three weeks later, I was enrolled in a class and what, six months or less later, I had my license and we started a team. And so that's eight years ago. 70 years ago, no.   [00:01:57] Ok. So I got to ask your question. Do you work weekends?   [00:02:00] No. Rarely, I should say no. Obviously we if if necessary, we do.   [00:02:07] Ok, cool. Well, it's out now. Let me ask you just Horton comes quantifying purposes like how many transactions a year do you guys do?   [00:02:17] This is consistency we like. We do. I want to say that we do 50 units a year, but it's anywhere from 30 to 60 units.   [00:02:25] Ok. So 30 to 50, maybe 60 on a good year. And rarely work weekends. So I'm out. So the typical client that I talk to works 50, 60 hours a week, works week as you ask them. Hey, what's that? How is your weekend? They kind of with this blank stare or astonished voice pause in the voices, they say. What's a weekend? Right. So how did you how do you guys build your business where it's rarely on the weekends? I mean, how do you make that happen?   [00:02:57] Why you've got to be purposeful. You know, the first thing is you've got a time block and you've got to use your week well so that your week will fall together and follow. It's in the, you know, Monday to Friday business hours. And one of the ways we do that, we put God first, we put family second, and then our real estate business is third. And it seems like doing that, things just kind of fall into place. You know, we work hard during the week. We try to get it all done and we schedule as much as we can during the office hours. And obviously, we have clients that can always meet during office hours, and that's when we fall back to, you know, weekends or evenings to accommodate them. And it's pretty rare.   [00:03:36] You know, I love to explore that just a little bit, because as you're talking, Nancy, my mind went back to two or three other agents I've interviewed, and they all had the same pattern. And I think this is a pattern that's really worked to pull out in terms of setting the parameters. Okay. I'd like one of my clients, he or he does two to three times the volume. You guys do personal production. He does it differently side. I don't want to make that comparison, but what he does is he works. At the time I was asking him this question about thirty five hours a week. Yeah. No, seriously. And and I asked him how in the world did you do that? He said, well I structure. He said, I choose not to work Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and I choose not to work on the evenings unless I just have to. And I'm willing to give up business by me too. But he says when you put those parameters in place, you just fit your business around it. And I think a lot of agents never put those parameters in place. Yeah, sounds like you got some monster over there.   [00:04:51] Well, we have construction going on as well.   [00:04:55] Oh, okay. I love it going on. I thought that was maybe the door. We we're having a fun discussion about the dogs before their call, so. Great. So tell me a little bit. So 30 to 50 transactions a year. You don't work weekends. You set parameters. Tell me a little bit more about your business practice. And most importantly, how do you keep the business going? I don't have I want to kind of go and go towards what is it that you're doing that keeps your business? Because I know a lot of folks who would love to have 30 transactions a year and they're working 50, 60 hours a week just trying to get there. But what have you guys found to be the pattern that works for you that keeps you guys going? Does that is that a fair question to ask?   [00:05:42] Yeah. You know, when Nancy and I got into business or when I got into Nancy's business, she was kind of coasting for the lack of a better term and how she was doing your business. It was kind of coming to her by your relationships. And then I come in and it's like I have a sales and marketing background. It's like, wait a minute, we can be doing this, this and this to bring customers into us. We can do this business to set ourselves up so that there's stuff out there that's working without us kind of dealing in. I have it. I keep saying I'm the luckiest guy in the world because when it comes to contracts and negotiations and closings in one, Nancy's the structured one. She keeps all of that in line. I refer to myself as the guy out front bringing people in and the guy after the close of the sale then keeps in touch with them so that we give referrals and repeat business from that. So Nancy takes care of all the middle. And I take you to the beginning in the end.   [00:06:31] If you're a single agent, that would be a single agent with my capacity. That would be difficult.   [00:06:38] I totally get it. So. So you're more behind the scenes, Nancy and Tom, you're more in front of the scenes, is that right?   [00:06:46] Until it's time to switch. I'm in front of the scenes up front and then, like, we'll go to a listing appointment, get a listing and they never see me again. It's up close.   [00:06:54] Ever from there. I handle the listing and getting up and running and handle all the contract negotiations to get it to close. Okay, cool. Yeah. We don't need assistance to help us with those things, but I think the core of our business has always been it comes from our relationships with people.   [00:07:12] Talk to me about that. Yeah.   [00:07:14] Well, you know, I had a business before Tom joined me and we do a lot of referral business. I think our first several years together, our business was solely on referral business and then friends and family, you know, they trusted some of us and they want their friends to, you know, experience the same trust that they have with us. So whether they use us for a transaction or not, they feel comfortable referring their friends to us.   [00:07:40] So how big of a group are we talking about with this? Your relationships?   [00:07:46] Wow. There's fourteen hundred people in our in our database and we consider two hundred of them close. You haven't referred broken down and advocate a being. See, depending on if their client if they're just friends with referrals and if they're local.   [00:08:04] Ok. And then what? What do you guys take to nurture that? I'm assuming you do something. Is that correct?   [00:08:10] Yeah, we do. We don't do enough. It seems like sometimes. And there's other people that say we do too much. So like events, we're always doing client events to keep people safe. To get as many touches at once makes a lot of sense to us. And of course, everybody appreciates a good party kind of deal. We also do community outreach stuff where we're giving away. We have like an ice cream sundae. We're well into. This is a Sunday where we'll we'll give away ice cream at the local custard store and everybody we publicize it than anybody who comes in, gets to sample the ice cream, obviously, and then we get to shake hands with people that are not necessarily in our database or weren't at that point. And, you know, we're making fundraisers, fundraisers and the local fire department.   [00:08:58] And we've also raised money for a couple other organizations by giving away things and asking just asking people to donate when they can't. Like, we gave out pumpkins last year and pumpkin patch, we gave a pumpkin to everybody that they donated or not. But then we had a little jar set up for donations and those people died.   [00:09:17] So tell me how. Because one of the things that we talk about, especially like with a geographic area to do fundraising events or some sort of civic community event where you get the people into the same a common spot, you're the the civic champion, so to speak, of that cause, and then you get a chance to meet them. Help me guide me through, if you would. Let's take one of these fundraisers that you do. What's the process? How do you if you just come and give me a short synopsis of the process and most importantly, how it's structured so that you interact with the people if you're interacting at all. Does that make sense?   [00:09:58] It was probably our biggest.   [00:09:59] So I guess, you know, maybe when I was a kid, a delinquent and I might have had I had a lot of parties. Right. And it was just a matter of putting ourselves out there. You just create the event and invite people to come in. Those people that came had a good time and those people that didn't come heard about it kind of deal. And so the next time they had one, they wanted to come. And we just kind of promote it that way. The idea is, is we put the event out there and make sure that everybody knows about it, at least four different touches. And if they show great, if they don't, they kind of miss the event when they come, then we try to have as much set up prior to the event so that the day of the event, we're not running around cutting watermelons for everybody. There's somebody either the watermelon is cut or somebody else is doing it. And the more that we have in place for that than we heard the term wants to Elm's buds. That's exactly what it means. But we're just shaking hands. We're walking around laughing with everybody and be who we are socially. And that's really where people then kind of engage in that in in some events, depending on the person and depending on on the drive, we'll say something like, you know why you're here. Can you tell us a little bit, you know, who do you know that might be interested in?   [00:11:11] Might you rarely ever say, who do you know, say something about who might have had the good fortune of having a Beatty that might be interested in in getting a bigger house or what? You know, just got a promotion that's looking into getting a bigger house or something along those lines to start that conversation with Nancy. And I don't have trouble starting conversation. It's a matter of is the event just a celebration or is the event a lead generation event?   [00:11:40] Interesting. Do you all do any follow up after an event like a thank you know for coming or anything like that?   [00:11:46] Yeah, absolutely. Everybody gets a handwritten thank you card. I think last year we made sure handwritten thank you cards went out. They get at least an email. Thank you. And then we got a lot of follow up calls as well. Well, a cool thank you for coming or sorry we missed you.   [00:12:02] I'm sorry we missed you guys are just as important. So we send all of those emails out as well. Man, you missed a good party. Here's what you missed. Kind of deal. And we'll send pictures and that kind of stuff so that they're interested in coming either the next time or or at least keeping involved in what's happening next.   [00:12:18] So these are these are just these are big, maybe not big, but they're fun party happy atmospheric events. And then a lot of follow up to continue touching afterwards. Right. I like that. Have you found anything that's kind of anything that you can share besides what you just shared, that if you go back and say these are really, you know, like the top two or three most important things you've learned and doing these things that make it successful.   [00:12:49] I think advertising at a time or getting the word out ahead of time, it seems, when we get lazy, not lazy, but get busy and we don't get the word out as early as we need to. And and those extra follow up touches prior to the event is what seems to make the most successful. We're doing it and having it catered and, you know, doing all the things we need to do. But if we don't get the word out early, we don't have a good attendance.   [00:13:13] So what? So what's the timeline? How far out do you start contacting in invitations and then talk to me about when you start to actually make the personal contacts to make that personally.   [00:13:25] So the save the date goes out about six weeks in advance. And then I think just as the Sarah question, she's not with us. She's our assistant. But they get text about once a week after that, OK? They get an email that tells what the event's actually about and kind of what they can expect. And then just some reminders for hours, BP.   [00:13:46] And there's a handful. The truth is, is that you're not going to get everybody. You can't call everybody then obviously on the list kind of deal. So you call a couple of key people and make sure that they're coming. Check the RSVP fees, try to get as much RSVP so that you can plan accordingly. Obviously, the earlier the better. And then just create from there, know create the list that you're going to call it is. And then when you make those phone calls to them, you know, are you making sure that you're going to make it? And do me a favor, bring somebody along with you. It's like I can bring somebody in your life. I got you on the phone, of course. You know, so and so. It tends to be good in that sense with our neighbors to come as well.   [00:14:23] We are fortunate enough to live on a farm. And so we don't have next door neighbors what we do, but they're pretty far away. So we like the community to know that we're that we would like to do a lot of fundraising for community community, that we support the churches here. All of the churches have ice cream socials in the summer. And we try to get as many of those as we can, but we get to know the neighbors that way. And then when we have an advance, we'll even put a sign up, a big sign in the yard that says everyone's welcome. So it's not just our client and it's client people that, you know, we love and want to do business with. Right.   [00:14:59] So there are key key for that question. I mean, I'm on the phone every day. I get in the office about seven o'clock. I do a script practicing beforehand. I prepare for my day. And at eight o'clock I'm on the phone and I'm on the phone until noon every day. Whether I'm doing a follow up was how it ended or I'm doing lead generation, calling the people in our database. And there's the it's it's the relationship building. I wish I could say I was better at it.   [00:15:24] Some of the times I get we just switched over a new system in in I'm not making as many context as I'd like to be making because I'm trying to like fill the system in as I go kind of deal and make it good that sense. But for the most part, it's just keeping in touch with them, whether you're sending them a thank you card or thinking of your card or inviting them to an event or sending them birthday cards, we've got to force the birthday process. I mean, you get into an email, you you get a phone call, you get a text messages, and often you'll just get a card as well. So, well, I say often cards take a lot of time and so do the phone calls. So you got to kind of balance your mind on what you're doing with.   [00:16:03] Well, if you were to put an end, I must say, I mean, like these 30 to 50 selves a year that you guys do, are most of those coming from your personal contacts referred to or directs? Is there a way? I don't know if this is a fair question, because I know when you're just doing all these relationship things, it's hard to measure and quantify. One is more important than another. But is there a way that you guys have mentally quantified in your mind, which are the most important things that you're doing in terms of these ReachOut events and which are just kind of supporting things?   [00:16:41] Is that a fair question? It's a great question. And, you know, I'm I would say that we're just not measuring enough to know it.   [00:16:49] I think that. I think the phone calling is actually the most important, because that's something that we can do consistently every day.   [00:16:58] Now, of course, you can't you don't talk to everybody every day, but the events are kind of a couple of times a year event. And so we're touching them. We're trying to do them four times a year. So we're touching them during that time. And I think a personal one on one phone call probably goes the furthest in getting us, you know, repeat business and referrals business.   [00:17:17] I can up my game a little bit here recently in regards to the phone calls, it's like I'm setting up appointments nowadays, which I didn't do in the past because I was so focused on business kind of deal. I'm setting appointments just to have coffee with people in in trying to set up so my afternoons are filled with going and have coffee. No, no, remember. I don't drink coffee. So it's just a matter, it's just a matter of getting in front of these people. In the conversation they bring up real estate, which is really, really enlightening, kind of really cool that they bring it up, you know. So how's business with the man making it into it? You know, by the way, you know you know anybody that just recently had a kid or maybe a job promotion or those kind of questions come up then. And then the other thing is, is that we're tapping back into. So it's Nancy and I have been involved in motorcycle's in fact, that's where we met, was at a motorcycle store alone. And and so Harley Davidson, that's my that's my life for 30 years was motorcycle. So we're going back to those people and creating events around specifically around motorcycle enthusiasts and then doing stuff that is, you know, I guess dovetailing if there's another event going in, we're definitely going to be there and we're definitely going to be a figure in the event. And then we're definitely going to be promoting. It doesn't I don't ever want to make it sound like we're promoting real estate business. We're simply promoting Tom and Nancy and and then talking about business. And it's a different, different mindset than what I've always said or then what I have had. It became a grind in the past. It was how much business can you do, how much business, which business can you do and not doing not even been greatly successful. And then going back to just how what kind of person do I want to be?   [00:18:59] We know that's the basics and real estate. I was interviewing a another friend of mine who's actually here in town and he's been selling real estate twenty five years broker. And the cool thing about him is I was asking him, I said, now, what type of marketing do you do? I've never done any marketing. I said, never done any advertising. Now he's I've never spent any money and marketing for business and said, so what do you do? He says, I'm I'm just cause I I'll call people and say, hey, how's it going? Let's get together. And that's it. I said, that's it. You know, is this what you guys are doing? And what's interesting is, is he has never had a time when he never hit his goals financially because he you know, his just like you guys. God, first family second, business third. And he grows his business to the point that he accomplishes his business goals. So he has time with his family. But it's it's always it's only about Tony furious about a relationship. And that's what you guys are doing. That's what's so beautiful.   [00:20:10] There's lots of room for improvement.   [00:20:12] Yes. Now I get that. I want to shift just a little bit. Have you done. Have you tried things in the past that were an absolute failure? Let me see if I can phrase this the right way. I don't want to say that was an absolute failure in turn someone off from doing that, but maybe it was a failure for you. And you know why. In other words, most things out there work for somebody if they're in business. Hopefully they work for somebody. And the question is, have you tried some things that didn't work that you learned from? And is there something you can share with our listeners as to why it didn't work for you, that maybe if someone has similar, similar or a similar situation as you guys, that maybe you can help them understand what works, what doesn't? I don't know if that's a fair question.   [00:21:03] Now that we have had anything that has just totally failed, we have some things that have been more successful than others. And one thing that happens with us and our agents are like this, but we don't consistently use everything that we have available to use, either from lack of time or lack of money. But there was a couple of years when we farm to market, farm to neighborhood, and we were successful with that. Well, that kind of went away because we got involved in other types of marketing things. And it wasn't that it wasn't successful. We just haven't done it in the last couple years. So we could go back to that. But then we probably have to give someone else, because just the lack of time probably makes sense.   [00:21:45] The other aspect, it would be like open houses. I mean, you can farm the market indefinitely, build the relationships that are indefinitely build. Unfortunately, we don't live in a neighborhood, so we can't farm our own neighborhood, which to me lends credibility a little bit a little bit different way. And then you can grow out from there. If you're moving into a neat or you're working a neighborhood, you're gonna do you gotta find out about the neighborhood. You got to get in a frenzy to make events that happened in there. And it's always kind of out there.   [00:22:12] So that would be reason for a decision not to put that much effort into it. And yet there's lots of reasons to put it into it. Another thing would be something that we have been unsuccessful at following through with the same with the farming is on open houses. You have an open house and you've got people that are coming in. And all you have to do is set up one appointment at every open house to get a buyer or seller. It's like done. We should be doing that. And at the same sense, you know, it's a weekend job. Right.   [00:22:46] And then you have to follow the system not wanting to work weekends.   [00:22:50] Look, system, I think that ideally, you know, if I was to lay out my open house on Tuesday, had put arrows out and start the marketing on it on Friday, I'd put Gob's to somewhere around 20 different signs out.   [00:23:03] And then on Saturday or Sunday, I have open houses.   [00:23:06] There would be two hours long. And, you know, make an event out of that and making sure that we've got up systems to that. And we just don't do that.   [00:23:15] And that's why open houses are such a great way for new agents to start their business because they have time.   [00:23:22] You know, I've always said, what do we have more time or more money to invest in into a certain marketing thing that we're gonna do for that time period in our business.   [00:23:33] And if you don't have any money and you knew you don't have a clients, open houses are definitely the best way to go. We actually have more money than we have time. Right. That's the place to be either right now. Well, I always feel like we have more money and we have we definitely have more money than we have time.   [00:23:52] I totally get it. Well, you know, I think it goes back to the parameters that you guys mentioned in terms of, you know, you set the parameters and you operate within it and open houses violates the parameter if we don't work on weekends. Right. So now, hey, speaking of those parameters, I want to go back if I if we can. So you have a hierarchy, God, family business. Talk a little bit more about that. I want to talk a little bit about just that whole balance and those parameters. I don't have a specific question yet, but can you maybe maybe give me some your thoughts and what you do and how firm those parameters are? Just gonna craft what's going on with you on that.   [00:24:41] Well, this business.   [00:24:44] Can lead you astray easily if you let it. You know, you can get so wrapped up in in making money or pleasing the clients and you can take your eyes off what's really important, which is pleasing God and saying yes to a client isn't always the best thing for them or you. And so I think if you go back to kind of the old bracelets we used to wear, what would Jesus do?   [00:25:10] You know, sometimes you have to say no.   [00:25:12] For whatever reason in kinds don't like to be told no and usually all is business. In that situation. But that's something that, you know, is important to us. We go to a listening appointment. We we talk before we go. And, you know, is this a house that we want to live? And, you know, what are the criterion which we're willing to take this? You know, we're not ruling to compromise our values. We're not willing to be dishonest. We're not willing to just be at the beck and call of our clients knowing that that's not best for them or us. We're not going to serve them well if.   [00:25:51] You know, we're at their beck and call 24/7. That makes sense. We're not here.   [00:25:57] I mean, that's it. So Nancy and I just come from a place of of knowing faith and hope is clearly there for us. So. So we know that there's a that there's a higher power, that what happens to be Jesus Christ as we know and love them. And if she shows up for us, you showed up for us in the past and he's shown up for Stanely.   [00:26:15] And whether we're whether we're saying a prayer before we go into a listening appointment or we're saying a prayer at the listening appointment or or we're just making sure that when we start our day, they were grounded in in in in the word or in, you know, meditative state where we know that, you know, we're covered.   [00:26:35] All right. Hey, let's talk and let me talk on that, because different people bring their relationship with Christ into their business in different ways. When you do your real estate business and you're in interacting with clients, do you do anything that I'll call it just overtly Christian? Let me say this makes sense. When we were looking to buy our house and we were putting the offer, writing out the offer on it, you know, my realtor who's a Christian, said, well, let's pray over this. And we prayed. OK. Do you guys do anything like that with your clients at all?   [00:27:11] Absolutely. We don't want to go in talking about, you know, being Christian, because sometimes people can oversell and under deliver. And I think we'd rather over deliver and undersell. So we try to let that show up in who we are and not what we say. After most listing appointments, Tom just very casually says, is it OK if we say a prayer? He says it just like that. And have we heard anybody say no? No, I don't think we have.   [00:27:40] We've picked up cues along the way. I mean, you know, they've got a cross hanging above their bed or something. I mean, it's it's you pick up cues along the way. But I don't know about you, but I have been turned off by plenty of people that profess to be Christians. And they're the first ones to start like pushing and shoving and lying and cheating, you know, like man men. So so we don't go in there with, you know, a Christian tone. We go in there with a humble tone and then go from there. Like I said, like Nancy just said, the opportunity presents itself to say prayer. Is it OK? It's always a question.   [00:28:15] And how did how did the clients respond to that?   [00:28:18] I mean, I think the majority I can't remember anybody that's actually said no. Most people are very excited. You know, they realized then that these are probably some pretty sincere people that want to pray for us and really are concerned about what goes on with this transaction, whether we lost our house or not, and whether we sell our house or not. You know, it's they're getting a feeling for us through prayer and our actions that we're the type of people that are going to have their back. Even if it doesn't turn out to be a sale.   [00:28:51] I love it. And what other ways? I'd love to find out if you don't mind sharing just a little bit more, maybe your relationship with Christ and how you feel. It's kind of impacted what you do in real estate. Can you share something on that?   [00:29:07] I'm a I'm a recovering Catholic, and what I mean by that is, you know, we went to church as a as a family firm because all the least you could do.   [00:29:20] I just remember Mom saying something felt the least you could do is give God an hour or a week in there. And I went through catechism, confirmation and communion and all of the sacraments. Catholic. And and when I and when I separated from that and I and I needed some stability, I knew that I could go back to the Catholic Church and get that. And yet when I needed a personal relationship, I didn't have that. And I'm also a recovering alcoholic and still in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. I found Jesus. He showed up differently for me than he did for many other people. But I just developed a personal relationship at that point. So that's just kind of my baseline. So if I've got that personal relationship as a result of my connection, the things that I do, and I don't mean the overt things that I do for other people in regards to my communication, my prayers in the morning, my meditation, my gratitude throughout the day. I've got reminders that proper by my full and that's as a sign for gratitude. And. And those are the things that keep me connected to the spirit, keep me connected to Jesus and go from there. Nancy, similar know, we write we read the Bible and we go to Bible study and we help out at church and we do mission work and we do this. But we don't do that to earn glory or to earn favor. We do that because that's servant.   [00:30:41] Right. Talk to me. This is really interesting. You mention relationship. A lot of times, you know, people think about Christian as a religion. What religion are you? I'm Christian. Things that sort in your life. You use the word relationship a couple of times. What does that mean to you? And why are you using that in this context?   [00:31:04] Help me understand that.   [00:31:07] Wow. Guess because he saved me. Tell me more. I mean, so, you know, my life is is not been a smooth sailing. They say the road to paradise is not it's not smooth. And in mine has been hellish. I mean, I've had a.   [00:31:27] Whether it was.   [00:31:31] Childhood diseases that I was able to to work through or that Jesus pulled me through or whether it was an illness that removed me.   [00:31:39] I was a I had a corporate profile job and I'm moving up in it and I get disabled and I'm not able to go there. And I think it's what what I what I do. That's going to make it better and then make it to the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous and in and pulled from the need to satisfy others so that I can get that paycheck or that notoriety or whatnot. And then I'd like to say that, you know, that recovery at that point was perfect for me, no drugs and alcohol. But the truth is, is that I found Internet addiction, Internet pornography addiction, and I needed to work the steps on that. And as a result of that, unfortunately, I lost my first marriage. And in the way that that was kind of hammered on me, it can have a real negative connotation in society. And with my former wife and and in you know, I had my faith at that point. And so I look back.   [00:32:44] And I know he is with me, and that's in a can't, whether it's Nancy and I or whether it's another close friend or somebody that I work with. I know what teamwork is. And it's not because of what I do. It's because of what we do. And I can't. And I have a relationship with Christ the same way. It's not because of what I do and that just because of what he does, it's what we do together. Next, the relationship.   [00:33:07] That's really neat. In terms of that relationship and trying to I've got kind of pictured in my mind's eye what I want to ask and then trying to formulate it into a question. So someone's listening to this call. They're going through challenges and they pray. They've gone to church. None of that really is not clicking. It just doesn't seem to be, quote unquote, working. They they check off the little list. What is different between what you did and going to church and doing catechism and those things? And this thing you call a relationship. Help me. Help me understand. All right. That person that may be listening. What's the difference between relationship and these things that we call, you know, doing the Christian thing? Is that.   [00:34:10] Yeah. Well, first of all, it's not a checklist. You can't check the list and say, I went to church and I read my Bible and I prayed. So why isn't my life happier or better, whatever it is they're looking for? I mean, that's not how you have a relationship with another person. You don't check off the boxes while I called so-and-so today and I met them for lunch.   [00:34:31] So, you know, we should be really tight now. You know, you have to think of it that way. A relationship is a one on one ongoing experience with another person. And that person has Jesus and he. Is better than to your friends, because he he's always there and he forgives so quickly and so easily. I think a lot of people come to faith when they're that they've hit bottom. And he's standing there waiting. You know, he wants to help you up and pull you up and. I don't know really how to tell people to.   [00:35:10] You get to that place where they're surrendering everything to him. But that really is the only answer. You know, you're probably going to do it. Meaning surrender everything to him. You can do it now or you can do it later. Most people like to go through a lot of pain before they do it.   [00:35:28] Like, do they just.   [00:35:29] Well, they don't like it, but they do it. So if you can do that, you know, sometime in your life. If you're tired of going through the pain or maybe you're not in a lot of pain now, you will be, you know, it's coming. That is something that being a believer or being Christian doesn't mean that you're not going to have troubles. It means that God's going to get you through those. And the sooner you learn that, I think the happier that you'll be just having that solid foundation to turn back to as opposed to what do I do now? And that trying to help yourself.   [00:36:05] It just doesn't work.   [00:36:08] I think the relationship with Christ for me is developed in in two primary ways. And the first one is in nature. I can't look around me and think that there isn't something greater creating this. I mean, we're in the change of seasons right now. The colors of the leaves will be changing colors and then we'll go into winter and then. Oh, my heavens. Spring comes and you're like, well, of course, he's going to put spring after after winter because it's just and, you know, I say he put it there because I believe it was created by him. And so I can just watch around me. It doesn't mean I like all of the seasons. Frankly, I don't even like spring. But it sure does bring out beauty, you know. And and I appreciate that. And the other thing. So in nature, I see that what I've seen in people as well to the relationship I have, you know, this. This is been a twenty five year road for me to get to this point. And that's not twenty five years old, that's twenty five years. When I met Christ in that in that relationship way in like my sister turned me on to a book, The Time for Joy, which is in scrap pages nowadays. But I still read it. Not every day as much as I used to, but I read it. I read it this morning again. And it's just that meditation. And then, you know, eight or ten years ago, another friend gave me a book by Derek.   [00:37:27] It's kind of my Bible leader book. Think of the rings. Dear friends. Thank you. And then, of course, I got a recovery Bible from somebody else. And I got I got in business. I was handed a journal, you know, and said how you can put God first. That's for writing about it when you go to bed and be grateful and in in recovery in the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. You know, they they encouraged prayer and meditation. They encourage a relationship with God. And, you know, so and so all of the friends that I met in that sense and every Thursday night for the past eight years have been in a men's men's meeting which started out at a church. Now we've been through several different churches and it's clearly Christian driven. We just call ourselves the protocols at this point. And there's just a topic where men from thirty six years old at 84 years old are getting together and talking and in that crisis shows up. And in that the relationships built I mean, we cry together, we laugh together. We in in there's not a meeting that goes by that you don't know that there's a presence of God.   [00:38:35] So. That's really neat. I love what you're saying, Nancy. You know, someday you're going go through tough times. And I was thinking I just had one of our podcasts, actually, Elk LP coming out before this one, but I've already recorded it. By the time we're doing this interview and is talking about the Israelites going through the wilderness, you know, coming out of Egypt. And it seems like they always put themselves into a position. God takes them to a position of dry point. OK. Where there is no water and and they always wait till they're about dying of thirst. They start complaining to God and God shows up with their answer vote.   [00:39:19] What hit me reading it is God would have given them the answer. They just ask God to light early before they got to that point for inspiration.   [00:39:26] Does that make sense? Yeah.   [00:39:29] I think sometimes we we wait until it's unbearable and that's when we we, you know, seek the Lord and crown the Lord. And yet Jesus said I came that you might have life abundantly right now and always have to do is this kind of saken right now.   [00:39:47] Let me ask you a question on that, because you guys have gone through a lot of struggles. I know. And if you were look at your life now. I know there still probably struggles. And if you look at your life 10 or 15 years ago or 20 years ago or maybe a little bit further back when your relationship wasn't with the Lord, wasn't his strong. And I'm I'm just looking at the life with a relationship with the Lord now versus where the relationship was a lot less. Are the struggles significantly different? In other words, now that you have a great relationship with the Lord, is the struggle or a stronger relation is a struggle a lot less in terms of things hitting you than it was earlier? Or is the struggle level about the same? Does that make sense?   [00:40:38] Yeah. It's about the same struggles.   [00:40:40] Both the same. What is the response to the struggle? OK. The joy in the struggle helped me. Now the struggles are about the same now with a relationship being more mature vs. not really pursuing it. What's the difference?   [00:40:56] You know, sometimes when something disaster is happens, your first responders response is to panic and, you know, despair and, you know, having this guy here that just says to me, you know, we need to start Perrow right now. And God's not going to leave us now. He hasn't so far. And it's just really a matter of a couple of minutes. You can take a few deep breaths. You can say a prayer and come back to he's going to get us through this. Whereas I think years ago, you know, you rely on your own, like, what can I do to get through this? And sometimes you can. I mean, sometimes it's up to you to do the next right thing, but often it's not in our hands. The things that are really hurting us and bothering us are totally out of our control. And that's what you come to realize in a close relationship with God is that he's in control. And hearing our prayers is the most important thing we can do now. We don't need to try to fix it. You know, either we can't or it's completely out of our hands.   [00:42:01] There's. So you've got to think so.   [00:42:06] There has to be a physiology shift and that can be like breath work, breath work to me has always been extremely important because like breathing happens without me thinking about it. And yet, when I think about breath work, to me it's a connection with with everything else. I mean, I exhale carbon dioxide and the trees inhale it through the trees. Exhale oxygen. And I inhale that. And so there's there's a definite connection there with that stuff. So it's in it's a conscious I'm breathing and I'm kind of counting or I'm doing feeling the chest rising and lower. So there's a physiology that happens with it. And then there's also an anchoring opportunity.   [00:42:41] So for me, I have an inker that when things don't get to it, I can I can just anchor and it'll pull me back into those thoughts of when I was blessed with feelings of blessings or feelings of abundance or whatnot. And just anchoring it added recognize that. That's good. So there's a physiology that starts and then there's that the you know, it's all about mindset, 99 nine mindset. It's got to be 90 percent of it all. And if we're talking about God and we're talking about gratitude and we're talking about abundance in in the proverbial fan gets hit with life, you know, we can go with talking about the proverbial fan and the stuff that's flying or we can talk about the good things. They're in the office. There's a saying that your thoughts eavesdrop, get your thoughts, eavesdrop on your words. And so if you're gonna be talking about the things that are not favorable, then you're that's where you're gonna be hanging on. And that's what you're going to find support in. If you're thinking about things that are, you know what I want I want to use the word good. But that's way too general. Things that are of abundant, things that are of joy, things that are of Christ, things that are of life, things that are of relationship. Then it's soon certain to go in that way in Christians.   [00:44:01] You know, I love the mindset. When you mentioned that my mind went back to Roman, say, with Paul, has the mind set on the flash is death. But the mind set on the spirit is life and peace. And where we set our mind is the outcome we get. Right. And. And I not long ago, we were going through some challenges. And my son is very wise in the spirit and we're talking about these different things. And he said, Dad, the battle is won in the spirit before it's won in the natural. And you know, that's so true. And, you know, God is a god of patterns. And he has a pattern. And he keeps repeating that pattern in one pattern that you guys have seen in your life. I've seen in mine. And that is that. God takes care of you. God takes care of you, as you say, can follow him, in fact. I would probably suggest without knowing the inner workings of your business, that if you were to look back over the life of your business. That all the big wins and and transactions and revenues that covered all your expenses probably were things that God brought to you, that you didn't really work.   [00:45:22] Yeah. Yeah, I would almost guarantee it. Yeah.   [00:45:25] It's a it's a pattern. And because of that pattern, we can live in joy in the midst of the struggles that come our way because we always are in struggles. The question is, do we try to reline ourselves to solve them or rely on the Lord? And the pattern with the Lord is he always handles it for those who love him and who follow him. So that's kind of the big takeaway I'm getting with you guys. Yes. Well, this has been really neat. I've enjoyed this. Is there anything else? As we start to wrap up, is there anything else you'd like to share business spiritually? A combination or anything else that. Before we wrap up the call.   [00:46:20] Thomas reading his notes. No, I'm not. There a tax in place? There's two things that come to mind.   [00:46:28] First of all. In watching videos and in watching and reading other people's real estate businesses and do this, do that, do this, that I've put other people on pedestals and in like that envy, maybe envy is is a word that might fit it as well. But I want to be like them or how come I can't do that or what's happening. And when Nancy and I sit here like this, I don't ever want to be thought of as the guy that has the answers because we struggle day in and day out. But we've got the answer of relying on our greater than ourselves. And we know that if we just get up in the morning and put our best foot forward, that the answers come in as long as our house is in order as we stand in the rooms. And so it's it's their struggle and there's pain and there's loss and there's reward in. Life is clearly way more abundant now than it was before. So. So don't do what I did and yet do what I did. But don't think of Nancy NYes any better or worse than we're just on the same path in the same. Going in the same direction and doing things have a little different speed than you are because everybody is is on the path.   [00:47:52] The other thought is, is.   [00:47:54] Some of the things just kind of along those same lines. Some of the things that were said here by what you've read and what Nancy and I have come up with in the moment, and as we said a prayer before we started this, I think this is a good podcast. And I'm looking forward to listening to those two people because they get some good stuff to say.   [00:48:14] Well, y'all are definitely just an amazing couple. Anything from you announcing that, trying to put you on the spot or anything, that song line before we wrap it up?   [00:48:23] Now, I just you know, for me, the most important thing is to have Tom as the leader of our family. And he continues to do that. He leads our company and he leads our family. And that's important to me. I hope to retire someday sooner than he does.   [00:48:38] And it's just nice to know that the person leading our company and leading our lives is a man of God.   [00:48:46] Absolutely. There is another passage that says no. Why be submissive to your husbands as crisis, as the churches, to the Christ husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church. And the picture that I got was this. You know, in the in the Christ center form of marriage, the husband is the covering of the family. And it's the husband's responsibility to take care of the family. Right. Ultimately, and as the bride of Christ, all of us make up the bride of Christ. He is our husband. And we can trust him to cover us. And trust him to provide for us. And it hit me as I as I was reading through this in the spirit, just kind of spoke this to me. At least I believe it was the spirit that said, you can trust me to Beatty, I'm your husband. And you don't have to worry about all of these decisions just to, you know, follow the leading I give you and leave it all up to me. And it's just really freeing. So it's wonderful to have a man of God is your husband to to just follow and lead your family. So. I really appreciate that.   [00:50:00] Thank you. Thanks. All right. Well, as we wrap this up, if you do like this podcast, be sure to subscribe to it and you'll get a lot more. Be sure to like us on iTunes and YouTube and learn more about us and how to grow your business and how to grow spiritually if you want. At our Web site, get cellar's calling you Acom. Thanks, everyone. You'll have a great day.   [00:50:23] Thank you. Thanks.   P063

  Find out what Ken Johnson says about Hebrew Roots. “Hebrew roots may turn into we are better jews than you(s) so we are going to kill you” Ken Johnson Transcript Below 0:00alright alright alright welcome to00:02another edition of Shabbat lounge and00:04today Jake and I are coming to you hello00:08Jake00:08hello Matt so I'm glad to see that00:11you've been surviving these perilous00:14times that we're living in it's00:16dangerous out there yes it is you can00:18proper precautions that's right that's00:20right so we appreciate you staying safe00:23and you know by listening to us on audio00:26you're safe from that from these terms00:29and if we're sick you can't get them00:31that's a good news yeah that's that's00:34one of the good things about the00:35Internet is now we can keep in contact00:39without the dangers that's right that's00:43right00:44well we always appreciate you tuning in00:47and listening to our show thank you for00:49all the 5-star ratings and iTunes and we00:52just ask that you continue to to feed00:54this to other people and especially to00:58your Facebook friends because Sabbath01:01lounge is in facebook and that's a great01:05place to share us and we really01:08appreciate that yeah it's uh what do you01:12got with YouTube and do you do the01:16Twitter the Twitter mmm the in tick-tock01:21but I've only made one a couple of01:24things in there and I kind of gotten01:26over that real fast so but it's still01:28there so and Spotify right a lot of01:33these kids today they're in Spotify I01:35listen to Spotify I might often myself01:37but01:38so we're there in iTunes if you look you01:42can find us that's right if you google01:44Sabbath lounge we'll be there when you01:47call yeah so you brought this up to me01:52and you showed me this video01:54why don't you kind of start off telling01:57us like what we're getting into01:58yeah so Ken Johnson is somebody that you02:02may have heard of and we definitely have02:05used him he translated a bunch of the02:08Dead Sea books like Enoch and Jasser and02:12we've looked at those and use02:13those and read those and he has some02:15some some pretty cheap copies of those02:19books that you can order and have and so02:23hey you know he he's somebody that I02:27guess I've never really heard talk until02:30recently and you know I just knew I knew02:32that he didn't share the same beliefs02:34that we do but hey you know it's one02:36thing to know that and then to hear him02:39talk so I used to listen to prophecy02:42Watchers a lot with Gary Stearman kind02:45of when I was waking up to Torah and02:46it's it's ironic if you go watch this02:49video02:49behind Gary you will see a menorah and02:52what else a shofar yeah those were all02:56proudly displayed behind him and it's02:58kind of like that's weird you know that03:00he seems kind of trying to make this03:03connection but it seems so far off yeah03:06but but Ken Johnson it's definitely not03:08a fan of the Hebrew roots and in what we03:11do and he has some interesting things03:14and I also go03:15I don't think Ken knows anybody that03:17does Hebrew roots I don't think he knows03:19one person from the video that they put03:24out and didn't know wouldn't seem like03:25it yes so like I think he's talking03:27about somebody and something that he has03:30no idea what he's talking about and so03:32Ken if you ever listen to this Hey03:34reach out to us we'd be happy to talk to03:36you yeah anytime about this and and put03:39a face you know well to an ideology03:43maybe yeah I don't know if we put my03:45face on anything nobody wants to see03:47that but because I've definitely got the03:49face made for radio but so here we are03:52on radio and but yeah I would love to03:56talk to Ken about those things and and03:58explain to him maybe a little bit more04:02about who we are cuz clearly he's got04:04some misconceptions yeah about who we04:06are what we do and that's what we're04:07gonna kind of take a look at right yeah04:09so let's start right here and so in and04:12so in this video if you do go watch it04:15at some point Ken Johnson talks about04:17acts 15 and says we don't have to keep04:20Jewish law at six minutes and eight04:23seconds he says this04:26yeah so everyone likes to use x-15 as a04:32as a this these are the rules we follow04:37now as acts 15 and so in verse 10 there04:46it says now therefore why tempt to you04:48Elohim to put a yoke upon the neck of04:51the disciples which neither our fathers04:53nor we were able to bear so what do you04:55think he's talking about the yoke of the04:57disciples there so the yoke that they're05:02trying to put on okay so standard05:06understanding of this right right your05:08your Christian theology is gonna tell05:10you that this is Torah right here he's05:12talking about but the context tells us05:15that he's talking about salvation05:19through keeping Torah rotten so and I05:26also believe he definitely and then in05:28Matthew but these two scriptures are05:29tied together Matthew 11:28 through 3005:31come to me all ye who are tired from05:34carrying heavy loads and that will give05:36you rest place my yoke over your05:37shoulders and learn from me because I am05:40gentle and humble then you will find05:42rest for yourselves because my yoke is05:44easy and my burden is light05:45and he is definitely comparing his05:49commandments which were not new they05:53were the same ones that he'd said before05:56yeah since he was the word the Word made05:59flesh and he is saying that these men06:06these Pharisees came along and put06:09unrealistic burdens upon people and tie06:14and he says that over and over that he06:16tied these hid the men were tying these06:19heavy burdens on each other and they06:21themselves are new than willing to lift06:22a finger to help them lift them right06:25and he's saying my my yoke is not like06:27that right but there is a yoke yes yes06:31we like to think that well Messiah06:34brings freedom he does mm-hmm it's with06:39this idea of06:40freedom to write that's kind of how we06:44look at it we look at it with some06:46Western mindset our freedom to do06:48something instead of a freedom from06:49something mm-hmm well I think we kind of06:51look at it like the the old flag with06:54the snake don't tread on me how dare you06:57tell me I can and can't do anything07:00right and and yeah definitely there was07:04something else that come and came to07:06mind but I'll think about it later so so07:09he started making this comparison07:11between those who are messianic and07:13those are Hebrew roots and so he has07:16some quotes here and he talks about how07:18down the Jewish side that are the07:21Messianic side and he said something07:23along the lines if Messianics are great07:25Hebrew roots were causing them lots of07:28problems right he said he has friends07:30that are Messianics and Messianics are07:32great mm-hmm so his darn Hebrew because07:35he broods guys yeah messing it up for07:38everybody and you know and then he's07:41talking about the Hebrew roots people07:42and he says we're Gentiles that somehow07:47think that they are to follow the law07:50everyone follows the the law everyone07:53should be kosher or be executed what so07:57that's the stance he is assigning to08:01Hebrew roots folks that somehow the08:05thought is the ideology is well you need08:09to keep kosher oh you're gonna be08:12executed now I don't know if he's read08:15through Torah but the clean and unclean08:18laws the punishment for that was not08:20execution hmm there were there were laws08:24where the with capital punishment shaven08:28unclean food laws was not one of them no08:30no definitely not so and I'm also like I08:34don't know anybody that's that has a08:37YouTube channel that has a website that08:41any kind of fault nobody that I've ever08:44listened to I'm yeah I'm sure there's08:46somebody out there there's all kinds of08:47people out there that say crazy stuff08:50so yeah there may be somebody out there08:51but nobody we know yeah08:53comes out ever and talks about how we08:55should kill people because they don't08:57follow Torah right I've never heard that08:59or no no that was really stretching it09:02and so that was a bizarre don't get it09:06he also said that Messianics teach09:08Gentiles are not to follow Mosaic law09:11and you know that that may be may be09:15true right there there the stances that09:19Noahide laws right mm-hmm and that the09:23Gentiles09:24you know once again he's talking about09:25Hebrew roots calling them Gentiles and09:28that that says Gentiles who think we09:31should follow Mosaic law Gentiles are09:33forbidden to do such things that was a09:35direct quote from him saying that we are09:37not there's a Gentile you are not even09:40allowed to follow mosaic rule right he09:44said you're not allowed to do certain09:46things in his example was the it was09:51rules for the priests right not anyone09:54could be a priest right so that was his09:56kind of his justification mm-hmm for for09:59how about it Gentiles weren't a lot so10:01you couldn't be a Gentile and be a10:04priest well you can you couldn't be a10:09Jew and be a priest either mm-hmm right10:12yeah yeah cuz the Jew is who Jew is who10:17ya from Judah right yeah mm-hmm10:20tribe about one specific tribe so right10:22and so I also go and I would say to Ken10:25Johnson if you're listening to this10:27which which I know he is that you that10:32you don't know maybe you need to10:37research that of what truly is a Jew and10:40who that is you know and I know that a10:42lot of people say you know district10:44tribute people who follow Torah and call10:50them Jews but but but we have learned10:54differently you know that is one10:56specific tribe right that you're10:58referring to any time you say that and11:00there's another quote here that I11:02thought was really interesting Gary11:03Stearman quoted scripture that11:06talks about the heart of man is to keep11:07the law about 12 minutes in until we11:11have that as we saw yeah okay we'll come11:12back to that one in a minute so Oh11:15and so then Gary Stearman does say you11:18talk about Jewish holidays dot dot right11:22and then if you're following out can we11:24be honest series yes to me can we be11:26honest the Jews were one of twelve11:28tribes no one in Christianity seems to11:32remember this now as a Christian growing11:35up I knew this and they set it all the11:39time I didn't - so it's strange to me11:43that guess you're smarter than me I will11:48no comment I can I can neither confirm11:50nor deny no so yeah there's it's funny11:55because you you you spend time in11:59certain circles and you know there's12:02things you hear all the time then you12:04talk to someone else and they're like no12:05I've never heard that before and it kind12:08of blows your mind like oh because you12:10think it's common knowledge well that12:13happens a lot with stuff that you pick12:15up on and it's like I'd never heard out12:18so it's it's pretty common well growing12:21up I always thought Jews were Jewish12:24people who you know I didn't even really12:27know what it meant but it's like the12:29people in the Bible you know they were12:31juice I'll juice I love every one of12:33them yeah so that's all I knew I didn't12:35know that it was I didn't know the12:38history of how it you know went from the12:42tribe of Judah to Yehuda or Yahoo's and12:46ended up giving short shortened to - Jew12:50mm-hmm yeah so this was always kind of12:53tricky for me because it seemed like12:55when I started coming into Torah I don't12:57know if you ran into this but it was12:59like all the things that the people I13:02kind of grew up with in Christianity13:04I like bring up some of this Torah stuff13:09that aligned with Christian thinking13:11like well we're where the Israelites13:15right now we're claiming to be Israelite13:17and the13:19all of a sudden they were like it was13:22they were gaslighting me like this no13:25what are you talking about yeah okay13:28song I'm thinking boys a movie oh but13:34point being that somehow they just13:37forgot all about the fact that this is13:40what we grew up learning and this is13:43what they were teaching me you know as13:45oh yeah there were 12 tribes and oh yeah13:48we're Israelites it's like and all of a13:52sudden you bring up Torah and they they13:53forget those things because you have to13:57because if you accept that now you have14:00to start changing the way you're14:01thinking about certain things yeah no I14:05tried to find the song but I couldn't Oh14:09shucks you slow so and also King Johnson14:14said the book of Acts says you are to be14:18circumcised or die and then he talks14:20again circumcise or die yeah and then he14:25talked about how the Gentiles who think14:27we should follow Mosaic law yeah he kind14:32of ties those things together14:33it's he's he's saying that the same14:38people in the book of Acts that are14:40saying be circumcised or die are the14:43same as these Hebrew roots Gentiles14:45saying that we should follow the Mosaic14:48law and we'll have a quote here later14:50that kind of shows you where he's kind14:53of tying these things together pretty14:56incredible and then Ken Johnson says14:59Gentiles quote unquote Gentiles can eat15:02anything as long as they don't eat it15:05with the blood from Genesis 9 and then15:08our question is can we be honest Noah15:11was he a Gentile uh he was a dude right15:16there were a lot of Jews in his day yes15:20uh-huh15:21false there were he was he's free range15:27for all that yes yes and yet he knew15:29clean and15:31and then it's ironic too that the guy15:34who helps and helps bring you know and I15:39will back up just a second so I'm not15:41trying to be critical of Ken Johnson I15:43greatly appreciate his work I greatly15:45appreciate that he's gleaned information15:49from the Dead Sea Scrolls and kind of15:52brought it to life and put it in modern15:53English and put it in people's hands and15:56you know he definitely I feel like has15:58been used by the father to to do that16:02and in those translations that he's done16:04it have definitely benefited me16:06benefited me but in some of the stuff he16:09did like the book of Jasher clearly16:12shows that abraham was not what you16:17would ever call a quote-unquote Jew like16:20I said it's before that even happened16:22and he was clearly the son of an idol16:25maker clearly what you would classify as16:29Gentile he was called out of that16:31lifestyle and called to be different in16:35a young age and he crossed over and that16:40that is much more of a theme than being16:43a bloodline deal because he was not16:44bloodline right yes yeah Hebrews caught16:48one who crossed over right now I don't16:52know how many people understand the16:53Genesis 9 thing because this was a kind16:56of a big one that that new people came16:59to get tangled up in you know much about17:03that that verse that he's pointing to17:06there he was talking about Noah when he17:07got off the ark and he made this17:09sacrifice and that's that's about what I17:12remember about it yeah so Yahweh says17:15now you can eat all things all creatures17:18are good to you something similar to17:21them and then he says but they forget17:25this part just as I've given you every17:28green herb to eat now can you eat every17:31green herb or do some kill you some kill17:34you I'm just ask Chris McCandles who17:38died in Alaska and a bus and he would17:42tell you if he can talk because if17:44not alive and you don't ask him that's17:46necromancy yes this is bad we don't17:48recommend that please don't do that but17:52he clearly ate the wrong berry he's no17:55longer with us17:56yeah so I'm not running around eating17:59poison ivy mm-hmm18:00call me crazy I don't know what you guys18:02do in Texas but MPA we don't play that18:05game but yeah so there there is a18:09stipulation given to that all all18:14animals no no that's a that's a good18:17good observation about it too and18:19clearly there was a distinction made18:23between clean and so so it's like so you18:25want me to believe that18:27there was this extra work and effort put18:30into the animals on the ark of cleaning18:33unclean and then all of a sudden the18:35flood is gone everything's dried up and18:37like gone yeah that whole clean and18:39unclean that we made you load up on the18:41ark head that would that's all right and18:44then you bring it back later I mean yeah18:46you have to look at it in the context of18:48worries right now and what Noah already18:51knows like this was one of the things18:54that I would bring up early on is so18:57there's it's it's this whole idea of a19:01schizophrenic Elohim right it's well19:04there's clean and unclean laws then19:06there's no one clean and unclean then19:08there's clean and unclean again and now19:10no clean and unclean again in this let's19:12give it the bunny ears quote-unquote19:15dispensation in this dispensation and19:17then hey bunnies are unclean yes true19:21we'll give them living bunny ears and19:22not eat them but then in the Millennium19:26right it's back again somehow19:28no it's is it yes or no or who can keep19:32track of all the mind changes of this19:35never changing yeah he so can if you're19:38listening I challenge you to consider19:40those things about you know why did19:43clean it and clean what was it such a19:46deal on the ark because the other19:47question is did they come two by two on19:49the ark right everyone says yes yes yes19:52I love this one everyone play along at19:54home19:57and indulge me Matt if you will oh I20:00love to indulge it yeah I live to do20:02that exactly how many of each animal did20:06Moses take on the ark Moses see you're20:11supposed to play along but yes I'm sorry20:13most people do not catch staff and his20:18Ten Commandments yeah so obviously20:22people will say to write and then you'll20:25say well no it was Noah that took the20:27ark and then you can correct them with20:29the number as well it's just kind of20:32funny okay yeah I always tell people but20:34y'all nice people my people go straight20:37to two-by-two right but no I do20:39appreciate you bringing up the fact that20:41this isn't like a put-down session on20:45Ken this is yeah this is you know we're20:48trying to air out some some20:51misunderstandings here and hopefully you20:55know that comes across properly yeah20:58yeah yeah yeah and then Ken Johnson also21:02says Hebrew roots may turn into we're21:05better Jews then you I don't know why I21:09say use there but so we are going to21:12kill you oh oh this use gotcha okay21:16right now so this is remember a couple21:20slides ago we said that this would come21:22back yeah so I do you know anyone in21:26Hebrew root saying well even on the21:28verge of saying if you will better Jews21:32than you so we're gonna kill you no I21:35don't know anybody that's ever said that21:37so and if they have you know they are21:40some whacked-out person who is a cult21:43leader and probably is doing lots of21:45really weird stuff yeah but that is21:48definitely not a mainstream no no and21:51and and definitely just like anything21:55that you look at there are they're crazy21:57weird outliers and anything that you22:00look at but in the bell curve yeah yeah22:03yeah so but there is zero of that and in22:07this theology we're not attempting to be22:09Jews22:10Christianity has very little grasp of22:13who Ephraim is and so you know we're not22:17trying to and we don't want to be what22:21what okay and I say when I say Jews I'm22:23using Jews in the sense of who Gary22:26Stearman and Ken Johnson defined as Jews22:30as being people who follow man-made22:33Torah and follow kebab Kabbalistic22:37teachings helmet right yeah all these22:40writings that were done and put more22:43weight sometimes on that writing and22:45tradition than they do scripture itself22:47we want no part of that and we that22:50that's the same as going to you know a22:54like a Catholic Church and bowing down22:57and kissing the ring of the Pope it's22:59the same same deal right oh yeah so the23:05that and I didn't have much grasp of23:09Ephraim Ephraim is monumentally23:12important and I heard none of that in in23:17terms of growing up none of them and so23:20you and especially the the prodigal son23:26story I had never put two and two23:29together that identifying that as Judah23:32and and Ephraim mm-hmm well we are23:35always I was always taught that was the23:39Gentiles oh you know yeah like the23:41Gentile that and then the houses were23:44getting reconciled but that's yeah but23:45that wasn't right it is what you just23:48said Ephraim and the two sticks becoming23:51one right a same kind of concept so if23:53you're if you're slim on your Ephraim23:55understanding look into effort you need23:58to crack that book open and research it24:00so because it will help open your mind24:03and to to that understanding ken johnson24:07also says Paul says for no reason to24:12allow ourselves to be circumcised and I24:14believe that he there was some scripture24:18is calling us out of Galatians yes24:21there was a t-shirts oh yeah yeah24:24Galatians and I think this was 1324:26minutes in he said don't allow yourself24:29to be circumcised and then but but at24:32the same token when you research this a24:34little bit you do find that Paul24:36circumcised Timothy a Greek right well24:41and here24:43apparently Paul said for no reason but24:46there's a reason for him to do that to24:50Timothy right yeah yeah so there there24:54are certain reasons to do it24:55yes mm-hmm and we could probably have a24:58hole actually I think when we did if you25:03look back at our collation study we25:04discussed a circumcision quite a bit and25:08I believe we may have even used the term25:11bag of foreskins or something that well25:14we did but that's what they were doing25:16can we be honest they were that's just25:20so gross so you want to think about it25:22so I had to bring it up again Ken25:24Johnson as a Roman can he said okay so25:28Ken Johnson is quoted as saying as his25:31Roman converts it Roman converts yes25:36let's go Ezra thank you is Roman25:39converse it would be illegal to keep the25:42Feast a tabernacle so saying that25:44everyone that is converted from you know25:47Roman thinking it would be illegal for25:51us to keep Feast of Tabernacles and so I25:53ask you to refer to Ezra 44 Zechariah 1425:57Isaiah 66 23 from what information will26:0144 oh yes I'm gonna say yes I think I26:07actually in my mind I may have combined26:08Ezra in Ezekiel and set called them26:11Azariah or something yes find that 1/226:16inches so Ezra 44 yes thank you for the26:20clarification is a major minor prophet26:23yes yes so and once again you know I do26:26want to say we don't claim to be experts26:29we don't claim to know everything there26:31is to know and we're26:33a quest for truth hey I think I've heard26:36that somewhere before26:36mmm that was a long time ago Rob Skiba26:40if you he used to do a thing called26:42quest for truth oh I was thinking that26:45was a Monty Python saying no no no those26:48are the coconuts you hear over there but26:52anyway we are in a quest a quest for26:55truth too you know on our own trying to26:58figure these things out and so right but27:01but it does now I I'll throw this in27:06recently I've been having a discussion27:08with someone where I've been accused of27:12have dismissing or throwing out27:15scriptures in order to prop up my stance27:19right but in order to say something like27:23kena's implying here he's not implying27:27it he's directly saying it you have to27:29throw out scriptures like Ezekiel 44 in27:32Zechariah 14 in Isaiah 66 where clearly27:36it's a new covenant time period where27:41all flesh comes performing to keep27:43Sabbath's and new moons all flesh comes27:45before me for a feast of tabernacles27:47that's not broken down and did you and27:50Gentile no no I mean you have to ignore27:53that to make this claim mm-hmm yeah no27:57let's go and then Ken Johnson also talks28:01about at the end of each age and the28:04Gentiles who think that we should follow28:07Mosaic law yes sir to me this was a this28:12is kind of a I hate to use the word28:15trigger but I don't know if we can even28:17say that but but so whenever I feel28:22triggered right so if you're triggered28:25by the word triggered problems yeah so28:29whatever what and anyone's saying at the28:32end of each age what does that make you28:35think of dispensationalism yeah exactly28:40me too so this to me is a red flag28:41already yeah ding ding ding ding and if28:44you don't know what that is28:44you should probably gonna let that up28:46then learn what that is yeah 11928:49ministries has a good good teaching on28:51dispensationalism yeah yeah definitely28:54and then Deuteronomy 14 21 it's the28:58scripture where they talk about feeding29:00the dead animal to a stranger and when29:03we went and licked that up in Hebrew the29:05word is how do you say that girl looks29:10like to me ger a temporary inhabitant29:14not someone grafted in so you know there29:17are different words in Hebrew you know29:19for instance not long a few weeks ago we29:22looked at the bond servant - who was a29:25part of a like your family and did what29:29you did and at the end of their in29:32indenture indentured servitude they29:35could make a decision at the point when29:37you had to release them because it was29:39in law it was in Torah to release them29:42you know they could make a decision and29:43be pierced and and be your servant that29:47person is somebody that is becomes like29:51a family member and they're not a not an29:55alien or stranger they're they're part29:57of the family and so this word here is29:59definitely different this is a temporary30:02inhabitant as somebody that wasn't30:04grafted in but he went on and on about30:05this one point for quite a while yeah30:08this was so we take the alien and30:12Sojourner and time into this stranger30:15concept the stranger is someone that's30:17just hanging out for a while and they're30:18not hanging around forever they're not30:21trying to be proud of you they're coming30:23through town and this I will say though30:28that this verse always perplexed me why30:30were able to do that ya know it's like30:34it comes across as a different standard30:37right but it's it's someone who's30:40rejected being grafted in with you yeah30:45I think it probably is when you read30:48Paul and he talks about the weaker30:50brother30:53you know there's some of that language30:55that might even be connected to this you30:59know their conscience you know they're31:01not there and so it's not a deal to them31:04yeah and I wonder how much of it to is31:06is not why wanting to watch his creation31:11go to waste31:12also yeah yeah yeah that could be it too31:14so definitely something to ponder we're31:17not saying we have that one figured out31:19and so I thought this was so interesting31:21and as he talked as he said this I was31:25like what what did you just say Gary31:27Stearman and he has this quote about how31:29he said and he fit he seems very sincere31:34at this point and also say I like Gary31:36Stearman he's watched him before I ain't31:39never seen it before but nefeli comes31:40across very Cindy seems very genuine I31:43don't doubt that he's a great guy I31:44don't doubt either one of these are31:45great people and and do good things and31:49so but he said it was the heart of man31:52to keep the law twelve minutes in and31:56and he talked about how he felt with32:00some of his congregants when he would32:01preach that and I was like why yeah of32:06course I mean yeah you were testifying32:09to this very thing that you are trying32:12to attack yes it is in us to do these32:15things right that's the whole concept of32:18the new covenant mm-hmm and if you and32:20if you just to me if you just think32:22about it in an opposite way you know so32:24okay so what's the opposite of this it32:29would be the thing that is on the other32:32side of the discussion yeah you know you32:36know a so if you're not keeping law you32:41are keeping lawlessness yeah and so we32:44know we know that that's not a good32:47thing exactly he also puts in this32:50concept of it's it the heart of man to32:52keep the moral law mm-hmm all right so32:55fine find that in your scripture32:58somewhere mm-hmm ken johnson says33:01galatians is about quote don't let33:04yourselves be circumcised33:06sir you're a debtor to the whole law33:08then Paul circumcised Timothy causing33:11him to be a debtor to the whole law why33:14would he do that to someone that Paul33:16he's a character33:17when in Rome right do as the Romans do33:21yeah so on this one now it does say that33:29in there don't let yourself be33:31circumcised or you're a debtor to the33:33whole law mm-hmm but that's not what33:36Galatians is about Galatians was about33:40well what we talked about last time33:42right it was Paul is combating an33:45argument of salvation through the law33:48yeah and that's why it's important to33:51bring up things like if you think the33:55law is gonna save you and you get33:58circumcised to prove it now you got to34:00keep the whole law because your intent34:02is salvation because I'm circumcised34:06when that's not that's not Torah and34:09that's not what Paul preached yeah yeah34:12let's go34:14ken Johnson said I also said Jews should34:19say state Jews and Gentiles state34:21Gentiles you guys quit mixing it up here34:23it's making it too confusing and then34:26you read Ephesians 2:12 Galatians 2:1534:30and you see these terms by Baal who talk34:34about how we all are one in Yeshua right34:40neither Jew nor Greek right slave or34:44free may on their female yes now that34:47doesn't mean what the spirit of the age34:50is talking about it means we all know34:53what a Georgia knee but yes that whole34:58concept when he is saying just a Jews35:00and Gentiles state Gentiles where where35:02do you come up with that where who says35:04that now I think what he's trying to go35:08with is where it says if you're35:12circumcised stay circumcised let the35:15uncircumcised you know if you came in35:17uncircumcised35:19stay uncircumcised35:20now we know that there's more to that35:24because of Ezekiel 44 talking about the35:28new age the new temple no one can come35:31in who's not circumcised the flesh and35:33hurt so so you got to go into the into35:37detail of what he's Paul saying when he35:39says that but it's not saying what ken35:42was telling him is no and I really think35:44on that circumcision concept that's35:46something you really got you gotta go35:47all the way back to the beginning and35:49look and see like we know we talked35:52about it in Galatians but about how35:55Jacob and Esau were different and they35:58both had a circumcision of the flesh you36:01know I don't see the reason to think36:04that they didn't and but they are two36:08very different because one had a36:10circumcised heart the other didn't and36:13one was blessed and the other one was36:16not and so I mean he does does have a36:20blessing on him but it's but there's36:23definitely a clear difference in there36:25is this concept of having a circumcised36:27heart is is something right right36:33because then Timothy would have not36:36stayed a Gentile then right by that by36:40that law oh and then we get into about36:4315 minutes into that video starts36:44talking about holidays which is always a36:46hot button and one that we have to deal36:49with and for instance you know I just36:52requested Passover and feast of36:58unleavened bread off at work and you37:01know it's causing me a little grief37:03because this is our busiest time of year37:05and you know they they weren't too happy37:10about it and they're saying things like37:11well we're just so we're not gonna pay37:14you for your time and the and then I37:17explained it I was like you know this is37:18a religious holiday for me right and37:20then they you know they cater to that oh37:24so oh we don't want to be sued so I'm37:29like okay well so and that kind of37:32changed the argue37:33a little bit you know when they when I37:36explained it to him that way but but the37:38holiday thing you know definitely and he37:42gave this this concept of in Ezra that37:46there was null affection and he said37:48that you don't throw it away you just37:51nullify it it's like if I could if I was37:53good at editing I would take sections of37:57that video and have him saying nullified38:00nullified over and over and over or38:01something you know yeah make a make a38:03gif or a jiff what do you say gif or Jif38:06I don't like to be put on the spot like38:09that but I say gif because the G in38:15American says good the G in American38:19right we're how do you spell American38:22with the G am G I'm Rickon okay all38:27right thank you for clearing that right38:29up for everyone we do give spelling38:33lessons on the side so if you need help38:35with that just go just a sample yeah38:38just call one eight hundred seven longe38:40and we'll get you hooked up on that I38:42did call when I had my own John and I38:47can't remember38:48and somebody did answer it and I was38:51like oh who are you what do you have my38:53phone number anyway maybe one day we'll38:59call that live on some on our broadcasts39:02and that's thank you and have a39:03conversation okay maybe we should do39:05that sounds like a great idea yeah so39:07anyway what were you gonna say anyway so39:09yeah this concept is gonna come up again39:11later and they'll be more points to39:13bring up on the don't throw it away just39:14nullify it thing and he's saying that39:18this is a Jewish concept and he's all39:20about it so but yeah I think there's39:26there's better example lay down and look39:31at Ephesians 2:12 and Galatians 2:15 for39:34more information so and then I put the39:37definition of nullified then it to make39:41legally null and void invalidate and39:45then you know Ken Johnson said if39:47Holliday has paganism it needs nullified39:51not done away with I'm like huh yeah why39:57nullify according to this definition40:01says to make null and void and validate40:04it's almost like it means done away with40:08very similar I think if if we're going40:14to say we want to nullify abortion which40:17we we would like to do that I think most40:20people would understand that that means40:22what do away with yes oh like Matthew40:29five and you didn't come to to nullify40:33the law or void null and void void the40:37law he came to fill fulfill it yeah so40:43he didn't come to do away with the law40:45so if we go to the judge and they40:48nullify our ticket was that mean I think40:52they've done away with it I think so too40:55but the point here I can never in my40:58wildest imagining hey if a holiday has41:03paganism don't do away with it41:07violet I know I was gonna nullify it41:11I'll which does mean do away with I41:14don't it's a weird situation is kind of41:18a a concept yeah like just like41:21dispensationalism doesn't mean time41:24period but that's how it to use right41:26mm-hmm so um the whole yeah you it's all41:34throughout scripture don't do what the41:36pagan heathens are doing so I don't know41:39how yeah you have to twist Scripture so41:43much to get into to to try to balance41:50out the the scales when you're bringing41:52stuff up like this yeah agreed41:55so then he gets touches the cult subject41:58and so and you know as soon as he said42:00the word cult42:01like wait wait what did you just say42:03cult we're going here are we okay we're42:06going here alright can let you know and42:09then when he went on this to me I you42:15know this is a part of it where I start42:17to you know to get maybe a little angry42:19at him and you know and up until this42:21point you know I'm like yeah you know42:24he's a guy he he's just like us he42:27doesn't have it all figured out but when42:28you start going down this road that's42:30that's a different tone that's a42:33different attitude and I'm like wow and42:36he said his quote was a cult cult42:38according to Church Fathers42:40ding-ding-ding-ding alert red flag42:43Church Fathers first off I don't even42:46know who you know is he referring to42:49mmm-hmm as anyone who denies the42:52divinity of Messiah or Trinity and show42:57me in Hebrew show me in the Greek where43:01you know the concept of the Trinity is43:05found and so that mean that that is43:08something you've got a research and43:09figure out and I will be the first to43:11say that is a complicated subject and my43:15belief on the Trinity is that we have43:19some words to kind of hang on something43:21that is so complex that our human feeble43:24little human brain can't understand43:26because it is such a wild concept and he43:31gave us some words in some ways to try43:33to try to put a frame around it to help43:35us understand what it is and one day43:37we're gonna truly find out what all that43:40all that meant and we're gonna go oh43:42that's how that works43:43right and we'll act like we knew it all43:45along oh yeah I knew it was something43:47like that43:48yeah and will be this evening and I43:50think I think there are a lot of people43:51that do admit that but but well my point43:54in all this is we all should use43:57scripture over these Church Fathers44:00anytime somebody starts bringing up the44:02Church Fathers I it does not sit well44:05with me and this I knew who are those44:07guys who cares what they said just like44:10me you shouldn't care what I say or what44:12Jake says what44:14the texts say that's what matters yeah44:16and I think very early on in my walk44:20here this before I even knew this Torah44:26thing existed I this was kind of one of44:31the first questions that kind of I took44:34a serious look at the Trinity and what44:37what Christianity professed about it and44:41that kind of got me down the road of of44:46asking more and more questions but and44:50this question right here of what a cult44:54is and it being defined as denying the44:57divinity of Messiah right never once do45:02you see someone especially Yeshua when45:07people are asking them what do I need to45:09do to be saved when they come to Paul45:11and say what's the deal what do I got to45:14do never once do they say you have to45:16believe this yeah45:18now in order in order to be in good45:20standing so when the church likes not45:24like it's a test45:25oh so you you want to follow me to45:28explain to me how am i you know how can45:34I be the the son the father yeah I mean45:38you don't see any conversation like45:40there's no lift must estimate no yeah we45:48have all people and you had plenty of45:50opportunity to bring it up yeah and they45:52never do and it comes down to this this45:56note you put here about I went online45:59and I actually googled this where this46:01came from and so the first offense that46:04the doctorate of Trinity was in the46:06early third century by the early church46:08father how do you say his name46:10Tertullian he explicitly defined the46:13treaty as Father Son and Holy Spirit and46:15definitive theology against Firaxis46:17though he noted the majority of the46:20believers in his day found found the46:22issue with his doctrine so that's where46:24it comes from it comes from that one46:26particular person is kind46:27yeah you know can consider the father of46:31that if you will46:32yeah Tertullian it kind of sounds like a46:35type of pasta maybe maybe maybe to46:39tortellini46:40maybe this okay it makes me think of the46:44bread and sauce we talked about at some46:46point hmm we need to stop doing this one46:49we're hungry and I guess so and then you46:52know his definition of a cult is anyone46:56who claims a belief that theology is46:59opposite and you know that one I was47:03like okay so maybe you know are you47:07saying that Paul himself was was part of47:11this because Paul himself says I do what47:15I don't want to do and so I'm like do47:21you really mean what you're saying there47:23because don't we all have beliefs that47:28we don't act on and sometimes do the47:30opposite and things we know to be true47:33and sometimes you know we know we're not47:35supposed to we know we're supposed to47:37follow the laws of man and we're know47:39we're not it's probably supposed to47:40speed but just sometimes do you go 70 8047:4390 miles an hour47:46yep probably you probably do I do so and47:51Matt can be found at no I'm so I think48:00maybe another way to look at this is48:03that perhaps he's he's trying to say48:07that you claim that you're a Christian48:11see and this is very confusing to me I'm48:14not exactly sure where he's trying to go48:16assist because they in the video he he48:19brings up the example of it's like a48:21Christian claiming to be it's like48:24someone claiming to be a Christian but48:26then doing the opposite things a48:29Christian would do and sure but that48:33doesn't make it a cult you know and he48:38brings up like a Hindu or48:41doing the same thing yeah if you're48:43claiming to be a Muslim but you do the48:45opposite of what a Muslim would do48:47that's not what it called it yeah so I48:49can remember back in back in the day48:52when I was a kid and I was in school and48:55I think I was working on a college48:58degree and which I did obtain and I49:01thank you thank you yeah it's actually49:04right there and that that's you you see49:06it but but I can remember being in some49:09class and we were talking about cults49:12for some reason and I can remember the49:15definition and isn't passed out some49:17kool-aid49:17yes they did they and I said I'd pass on49:21the blue kool-aid but the but the49:25definition of a cult was probably it so49:27a sociology class and it might have been49:29a class in which we dealt with social49:31problems that we saw in society and this49:35was about the time of David Koresh and49:38because I'm old and but but I can49:41remember in that class the definition49:43they gave me of a cult was it's49:47something that has a very strong a must49:50dictator like leader that is charismatic49:54and you know gets people to believe in49:58this this thing and rallies I'm around50:01but the but there's a central figure50:03that is the that that's part of the cult50:07thing and you know that doesn't that's50:10not happening in Hebrew roots there's50:11not like one central person there are50:14same the leader of yeah mm-hmm it's50:17Yeshua yeah no right and there are50:20definitely some people that follow50:21different things but but yeah I don't50:25know any one person that's claiming to50:27be the be-all end-all and you have to be50:30like them and look like them and I think50:31of David Koresh and yeah he was a cult50:34leader absolutely and so so can I do50:38take offense when you tried to say that50:41what we're doing is a part of a cult50:45so you serve that this is incorrect and50:47and I would be I would love to have the50:50discussion with you and explain to you50:53what we do50:55it looks like and how it is nothing like50:59a cult and so I mean if you have watched51:02this Ken Johnson and you're kind of on51:04the fence about you know this movement51:07and what we're doing just know that that51:09is that is incorrect this is nothing51:11nothing like any of that right and then51:18he talks about replacement and you know51:23in replacement theology and in the51:26Hebrew roots they did you know now I51:29can't remember oh so his point on this51:32and it was kind of confusing to me could51:37because it's not what you typically hear51:39he's saying that replacement theology in51:44terms of Hebrew roots is that that the51:49Hebrew roots people are trying to51:52replace the Jews you want real Jews51:55right and it's us that are the chosen51:59people now growing up my understanding52:02of replacement theology was while the52:05church replaces it replaces Israel52:08essentially so that's to me that's a52:12Christian ideology is this replacement52:14yeah it's enough of Christianity yeah to52:17me it is definitely so when I heard him52:19bring this up pointing it at Hebrew52:22roots it didn't make much sense to me52:25mmm-hmm yeah because he said that Hebrew52:28roots denied user Jews claim Paul is52:32apostate claim no new covenant52:34replacement theology and you know yes52:39I've heard some people be very very52:41harsh on Paul and and make those claims52:44but but but that doesn't mean that every52:48person that is in Hebrew roots thinks52:51that about Paul I think Paul with it52:53that's a mainstream yeah yeah that is52:56very much a minority opinion and and52:59most of us go Paul is was very smart and53:03he understood this Torah at a level that53:08I think53:08that yeshua wants us all to be ad yeah53:11but step one is you have to know the53:14Torah and Paul knew it yeah it's you53:17can't know what Paul wrote until you53:20read what he's read exactly you could53:22put that it's gonna be on our next shirt53:23right there that's right mm-hmm I mean53:26say why for in the Sabbath Island shop53:28yes also would have to be coming up soon53:31if that'd be coming soon yes No yeah53:36early on I was seeing people that were53:39like if you look at the black Hebrew53:43Israelites hmm they're kind of in this53:45deny the Jews arduous situation and and53:49I started calling around on the53:52fellowship finders and I I'd hear people53:57say well you know we we don't even think54:00the New Testaments valid anymore and54:02they would take Paul right and we'll54:05take Paul out of it so I was hearing54:08these things ruin people that were now I54:10won't say they were Hebrew roots because54:12I didn't ask them and they were confused54:15yeah but so early on and even now I54:21don't necessarily tie myself to Hebrews54:23but of the people that I know that do54:27right it's they're not saying this stuff54:30yeah no hmm so so I don't know yeah well54:37then how do you say that word right54:39there54:40suppression ISM supersessionism that's54:44it yes yeah replacement theology is a54:47Christian doctrine ding-ding-ding just54:49what you said it's a Christian doctrine54:51which asserts that the New Covenant54:53through Jesus Christ Sir Percy54:55supersedes the Old Covenant which made54:58excuses54:58exclusively for the Jewish people in55:01Christian I say it supersessionism55:06humanity supersessionism yeah is a55:08theology view on the current status of55:12the church in relation to Jewish people55:13in Judaism it holds the Christian Church55:15has succeeded the Israelites is the55:18definitive people of God so it's exactly55:21what you were saying55:22that that it is confusing because that I55:26just went and googled replacement55:29theology and I'm pretty sure that came55:31up and brought maybe the Wikipedia page55:33is pretty easy to find that I'm like55:35well what are you talking about cuz55:37seems the opposite of what you just said55:39can ya please define that can and then55:43Gary Stearman goes on to talk about law55:45vs. grace and a paradigm shift is needed55:49right so my my idea is that there's a55:57paradigm shift needed Gary Stevens idea56:01is and there's always this we have to be56:06there has to be this conflict between56:09law and grace56:10it's either law or its grace so you can56:13can be both right and the paradigm shift56:16is we need to come away from this law56:18versus grace it's how do they work56:21together56:22yeah because otherwise you're lawless56:27right Hebrews says that you don't want56:31to insult the spirit of grace right Paul56:35says all the time shall we continue in56:38sin that grace may abound that's56:40insulting the spirit of grace by the way56:42he says by no means right so do not56:45continue transgressing the law just56:48because you have grace if you're doing56:50that you're insulting the spirit of56:52grace and Hebrews a very harsh about the56:56people doing that and it's it's that in57:00the it's in the context of the person57:04who falls away from the faith57:08hashtag once saved always saved right oh57:10my gosh don't even get me started on57:13that I remember I've heard that57:15conversation recently where people are57:17like one side always say I'm just like57:20well I can't even can't even go into57:23this but but this law verse is a grace57:27thing - it's like you you don't know57:29what happened at Mount Sinai do you you57:33forgot the57:35there was this calf and the people made57:38it literally while Moses is that they're57:42getting probably at the very moment when57:45they when the commandment is read about57:49not making and having any other God57:52before him57:53that's about the minute this probably57:55went down yeah and and the father comes58:00down on the mountain is like Moses look58:02at those people your people down there58:05and he was ready to wipe him out and58:08because Moses who represents a type and58:11shadow of Yeshua himself steps in and58:14goes hey wait a minute wait a minute58:15this this I get it you're right you58:19could destroy them all and repopulate58:21this whole thing and start over with me58:23yes yes it could be done but you know58:26that's grace that's that's that's the58:29that's exactly and people forget that58:32they just think everything in the Old58:34Testament is nothing but law yeah and58:37harsh and you know I talked to I like58:41that by the way that's a good it's law58:43and grace happening at the same exact58:45time yeah that's a good point but yeah I58:48just talked to someone today about how58:52we were talking about New Covenant58:55because I've been having a discussion59:00with someone else about it and currently59:02I'm a little misunderstood on my59:04standing on that but that's off topic59:07but the point being I brought up well so59:14the Old Covenant is is likened to law59:18it's you know tied together with the law59:21and the New Covenant is tied together59:22with grace right it's this age of grace59:26right so I said well wasn't there59:33grace before and this person didn't know59:38about grace and mercy in the Old59:42Testament it's all over the daily now59:44that existed yeah59:46yeah so it's everywhere it's not a New59:50Testament concept it's a reminding59:54people there is grace and mercy mm-hmm59:57no and it's a physical playing out of60:02that grace and mercy no no for sure60:06Gary's sermon also taught okay so we're60:09gonna go back to the holiday thing and60:11at some point Gary sermon says if it's a60:14secular holiday it's perfectly fine60:16right there's no rule against secular60:19holiday and my thing is who says that60:22who says right I60:26I know scripture doesn't say that yes60:29no there isn't there there's never60:33grounds to be secular right it's you're60:36never okay now you can be doing secular60:40things right it's not it's not a thing60:44let's do a mean it's okay for your kids60:46to watch the Disney that's what the60:51going rate is apparently yeah they're60:54all about family it's family right it's60:57just a secular family thing yes and61:00there was a time when I used to think61:01that about Disney and had no clue and61:04then when my eyes were opened I was like61:06oh my gosh yeah definitely so if you've61:11never looked into that look into that61:13and then so he goes in and he talks more61:17about he talked about the pan61:20Babylonians everything was pagan and61:23they talked about the Nullification and61:26then he talked about how at some point61:29in here at the conversation about 195961:32it so it's about the nineteen minute61:34mark in that video where you start to61:36see this and he talked about the61:39Christmas tree and how it wasn't it's61:42not the Asscher pole so those those of61:45you that have read Jeremiah where it61:47says they cut down the tree and off61:50dawned you know thought it was silly61:53yeah61:54they dust on his some doth word in there61:57yeah and any61:59like that Christmas tree that's not that62:03because that was a living shrine yeah so62:09and and when you cut down the tree it's62:13no longer living62:14it can't be an Asscher a tree and then62:18my question is this why do you water the62:22tree when you cut it and put it in your62:24house and so I'm like so I would tell62:28you Ken Johnson I used to be a science62:30teacher and so Ken please explain to me62:32I mean I understand kind of what you're62:34trying to say but do this little62:36experiment at home mr. Johnson is take a62:40piece of celery and put it in a glass of62:44kool-aid and you know see what happens62:48with the xylem and phylum that are in62:50the celery in you talent you know yes it62:54technically is not alive anymore but62:56somehow it transports material so it's63:00veins somehow it continues to live yes63:03yes just like this Christmas tree63:05somehow soaks up the water into its63:09system so you know it isn't a stage of63:14life still yes still I mean sure it's63:19struggling for gasping for water63:22apparently then yeah you can you can see63:25it's still taking in nourishment mm-hmm63:28and then that quote there - that made me63:32chuckle - there's nothing pagan to it63:35I'm like well maybe your definition of63:38pagan is different than my definition of63:40pagan I don't know pretty pagan quite63:44pain you show me in scripture where it63:46says hey you guys you know what this is63:50how you know and now that Yeshua is no63:54longer with us63:54this is how we're gonna celebrate him is63:57we're gonna go cut a tree down and bring64:00it in our house and put some lights on64:01it and we're gonna say this is him hmm64:05there's no scripture that even remotely64:08talks about it except for Jeremiah and64:11it clearly says64:12don't cut tree and do something with it64:15and so I'm gonna lean to Jeremiah on64:18this and go there's something there that64:20I'm not supposed to do yeah and even if64:22you don't even if you don't see Jeremiah64:25that way it says don't worship me you64:29know the way that the heathens worship64:31their gods mm-hmm and clearly we can64:35look in history this is a way that the64:37heathens would worship their gods64:39clearly it's not the way64:40Yeshua worshiped it's not the way Paul64:43worship mm-hmm Paul says walk as I walk64:46as I walk as Messiah walks right I says64:49walk as I walk none of them will walk in64:51over to the old Christmas tree no no64:55they weren't and they certainly weren't64:56bowing down to it getting their presence64:58and once again it's not an idol but65:01people do bow down to it put their head65:04down low as they reach down to get the65:07presence tell me that's not bowing so65:11and then you know he went on to talk65:16about at some point they even there was65:20a monk who used a Christmas tree put it65:22upside down to teach the Trinity barely65:27birth Martin Luther was quoted at some65:28point saying there's nothing pagan with65:30it you know church father said it65:36no it must must be true so what it said65:39so shall it be done yes yes I think65:42that's the way it goes right that's the65:44quote that's how they say in65:45Pennsylvania anyway yeah mm-hmm but but65:50definitely research if you've never65:51researched the Christmas tree and pagan65:54traditions you should do that because65:57you know that did raise a lot of65:59questions for me because I I always knew66:03that issue wasn't born on December 25th66:06and and in Natalie they even say this in66:09that video you know and yes correct66:12but there is no scripture that you can66:16convince me that the traditions and the66:21things that we do at Christmas are66:22things that are commanded66:24and that we're supposed to do now I66:27there now I know there's like warnings66:33and stuff that Yeshua and Paul give its66:38although with Old Testament but but just66:41to be on the same page with someone who66:43would be talking about this is there66:46somewhere where it might say that66:52holding to the traditions of men or66:54something not that is a good thing not a66:57good thing it's always right was a bad67:00thing and clearly if nothing else on its67:06face you'd have to say this is a67:07tradition of man for sure yeah at the67:10very that's your low bar mm-hmm and that67:14is an argument I've had with people67:16before where I've said show me in67:18scripture where I'm supposed to worship67:19baby Jesus in the manger and always you67:22know everything goes back to tell the67:24good nights in my life and wait no what67:27and in that moment of dear baby Jesus67:31six pound 8 ounces laying there in the67:34manger you know unfortunately that movie67:39in that section did strike such a chord67:42about how people want to think about67:44Jesus you know he's a little baby he's67:46cute he's harmless she can kind of67:48cuddle him in your arms and that's67:51that's where they want to keep him at67:52you know they want to keep him right67:54there that's easy until that's part of67:56the you know what happens at Christmas67:58is there that's the part of him they68:01want to remember they don't like to talk68:03about the part of him when he's riding68:05the white horse and the blood comes up68:07to its bridle that they don't know that68:10guy yeah literally68:12right so and they're gonna be surprised68:15when they see him and the other thing I68:18think you've gotta research is go back68:20and look at that Golden Calf story and68:21that's what really did it for me is when68:23I started looking at that story and68:25realized that people build this calf you68:28know first they go to Aaron and they're68:29like Aaron no Buster's calf and then and68:32then there's so many questions I have68:34about that story where I'm like Aaron68:37where68:38seems like a pretty stand-up guy and68:40he's like okay that people would do this68:43I'm like what happened are you afraid68:46they're we're gonna kill you then maybe68:48he was I don't know68:50well to hear his side he just threw the68:52goals in and hops you just pop right out68:54but when the people are like we did this68:57in honor of you you know that's exactly69:00what they say and you know it goes into69:03that argument of what people say about69:05Christmas is it's not how it's it's how69:09I make it that's what it means69:11yeah yeah I think yeah we lose focus on69:17lose track of the fact that it doesn't69:19matter how we look at it it's how does69:21he look at it and I got an experiment69:23for you Jake to try this and so you're a69:26married man69:27and you definitely have loved other69:28loved ones in your in your life but you69:31know the wife is this important thing69:33and sometimes this man you know we69:35definitely don't want to be like our oh69:38excuse me our grandfathers and fathers69:41that we're like woman I told you I love69:44you 35 years ago and I'll let you know69:47if that changes so you know I don't know69:50anyone i don't recommend taking that69:55approach in case you know it's probably69:58not gonna go well but you know the70:01little experiment that you can do to see70:04if does it matter what your intent is70:07versus what the card is you know there70:09was a time in my life when I get so70:11annoyed and let go it certain holidays I70:14used to celebrate who I don't celebrate70:16anymore and all these people are70:18standing looking at these gift cards and70:19they're just reading them and picking70:21them up and then it's taken forever for70:23these people to make a decision and if70:26you haven't noticed sometimes I can be a70:28pretty decisive clear and cut and to the70:30point person and I remember thinking it70:33was a lot of fun I have the kids up with70:35me and like my kids watch this and I70:37just close my eyes I'd go right up to70:39the card rack and just be like yep70:43that's what that's what mom gets I just70:46close my eyes and pick it out and if it70:47says happy birthday son70:50mom this guy didn't wanna stand there70:53forever it became kind of a fun thing70:57but I got lots of laughs out of it but I71:01can tell you that you know when I give71:03that to my wife and and I take a sharpie71:06and go um scratch that out wife yeah and71:11give that to her you know it just it's71:12not quite the same same and so so I71:16don't really get to take something that71:19is pagan and mark it up and change it71:22and and then give it to them and go this71:26is what I mean yes he doesn't have to71:28accept what you're offering yeah yeah71:31yeah and in my wife and no way you know71:34thought it was funny my kids thought it71:36was funny and I like telling that story71:38but but yeah she was not amused and I71:42didn't earn points with her but I mean71:45that's just that's just what I did71:48gasps so anyway it is kind of a fun71:54thing to try as a social experiment okay71:56we'll see if that happens71:58yeah Andy Andy really shows in him since72:01you said how well it turned out yes yes72:03and you really show them who's boss when72:06you do that the people standing around72:08trying to figure out what card to get72:10they don't even notice72:11yeah I bet in my mind it seems like this72:14great thing and they're just like oh he72:18rules it there he's in charge yes I'm a72:23legend in my own mind Jake yes so it's a72:29small place so and I theta peers this is72:33our last of my slide won't go anymore so72:37was there anything I'm looking back at72:40my notes and you know this video is72:43about 25 minutes and72:48so anyway well yeah we noticed some72:52issues that were brought up and some72:54falsehoods being spread about Hebrew72:56roots and so we wanted to kind of72:59address it and once again I do reach out73:02to Gary Stearman in Ken Johnson and I73:04would love to have them talk to us about73:08these things and I am by no means I'm73:10trying to spread hate I'm not trying to73:13spread rumors I'm not trying to spread73:16gossip I would love to have face-to-face73:19conversation with them about who we are73:21what we do and I think they're all73:24confused about these things and yeah and73:26so anyway I think that's it yeah and I73:31think I think we covered it all right73:34well once again we appreciate you taking73:36time to listen to Shabbat lounge or73:38Sabbath lounge and you can google us you73:41can find us on Facebook you can find us73:43on Spotify you can find this the73:48youtubes73:49no no we've got a blog and a website and73:56we always appreciate comments you know73:59that lets us know that you can fog up a74:01mirror and that you're a real person and74:03that you listened and you care and we74:06appreciate that and hope that this could74:10be useful and if you know Gary Stearman74:12and if you know Ken Johnson share it74:15with them yep so if you're following74:18send it send it to them yep yep so we'd74:21appreciate that74:22open up that doorway that dialogue would74:25be happy to to do that and so once again74:28thank you for listening to ShabbatUp next   Find more information below: www.sabbathlounge.com  https://www.facebook.com/sabbathlounge/ https://twitter.com/SabbathLounge

Connect with Barry Ratzlaff online in the following places:Instagram: @ratzlaffbarryHosted: Andrew Bracewell @everydayamazingpodcastProduced/Edited: Justin Hawkes @Hawkes21Full Transcription of this Interview:Andrew Bracewell: This is the podcast that finds the most elusive people the everyday amazing kind that you know nothing about. I'm hunting these people down and exposing their beauty to the world. I'm Andrew Bracewell and this is every day. Amazing. Barry Ratzlaff: Get off social media. Stop looking at Instagram pictures of people who have perfect bodies and are purveying these perfect lives because that is such a negative thing for your brain.Andrew Bracewell: Happy New Year, everybody. I'm grinning ear to ear because today's guest is one of the reasons I get up in the morning literally. But more on that later, when something is delicious, I mean really delicious. I will often attempt to describe it by saying It's like two tiny humans are having sex in my mouth. Whether or not the metaphor is accurate, my excitement in the moment is effectively communicated, and the person to whom I am speaking knows why I'm losing my mind. That's how I feel about today's guest, but we're not going to eat him or have sex with them. We're going to talk to him because in addition to the fact that he's highly intelligent, he has helped countless people change their lives by shaping the way they view their nutrition, fitness and overall health, including me. Barry Rats Laugh is a gift to mankind. But before I let him speak, I'll give you a short synopsis of what he does in some of his life accomplishments. Together with his wife, Janna, they own proactive transformations, a boutique health and fitness facility operated on their property in the Fraser Valley, their mantra. Helping people achieve their best body in a healthy way. Some of Barry's certifications and accomplishments include a C E certified personal trainer. He's an A C E certified health coach. He's certified in fitness and sports, nutrition certified and overuse, injuries and rehabilitation certified in low back disorders. In 1999 Barry was the body for life champion. In 2003 he was the Ice Atari best body champion in 2000 Very trained The Body for Life, Canadian champion, and in 2001 he trained the body for life. First runner up. That is quite the pedigree, Barry, Welcome to the show.Barry Ratzlaff: Thanks, Andrew. Good to be here.Andrew Bracewell: How does that sound? Hearing all of that that read out. Are you amazed by yourself? Just sell the copilot B s. Well, it's difficult to hear positive things about ourselves. It is. It is. So that is actually quite the ah, the list. And I want to start by asking you a little bit about your journey into the health and fitness industry and how it came to be that you're in the place you're in today.Barry Ratzlaff: Well, I was, uh I'm also a ordained minister. He But you know that. And I spent a lot of time in the church.Andrew Bracewell: You marry and bury people I didBarry Ratzlaff: for a long time. I am married and buried. I married your ah, one of your associates. Yeah. So I did that for a long time. And that lifestyle is not a healthy one. Working with kids. I was youth pastor. I worked with, uh, mostly junior high and some senior high kids. I did it for 15 years, and through the course of those 15 years, we eat a lot of doughnuts and you drink a lot of pop and you have a lot of late nights with Doritos on buses heading to youth events. And it's it's it's a gong show, physically like you're just getting fatter and fatter and more and more tired. And you just keep yourself going with sugar.Andrew Bracewell: This was like eighties and nineties orBarry Ratzlaff: Ah, yeah. I graduated from Bible school in 91 my first church was up north in Fort McMurray in 92 0 wow. I didn't know for a fact or Mac. Two and 1/2 years. Yeah, my personal hell. ButAndrew Bracewell: I have more on that later. Yes, exactly. TheBarry Ratzlaff: place where you could be nothing other than Pastor Bury. All right. It was awful. Anyway, so, uh, through the course of the of my pastor eight years, I just got more and more out of shape when I had a few attempts at getting into shape over the period of time where I would and I didn't know much. I've been lifting admitting the gym since I was 13 yearsAndrew Bracewell: old. Yeah. So you were a child athlete, right? Early? Yeah. I read about these kindBarry Ratzlaff: of won all the athlete of the year awards through elementary and high school. A big wrestler back in the day. And when the B C championships got a scholarship sf you which I turned down, I didn't want to wrestle anymore. It was just It was misery, like physically punishing that I enjoyed the physical punishment. But you're always dieting. You're always restricting your nutrition to keep your weight class right. It's just like boxing. You're constantly moving, moving down away class, trying to be competitive. And so I just did that for all of my high school years and said, I'm kind of done with this now I just want to move on. Where was I going with that? It was competitive athlete. All through those yearsAndrew Bracewell: you're in Fort Mac and for Mr Berry, And the original question was, How did you journey out of the Pastor Berry mode into?Barry Ratzlaff: So it's your today, tried a few times, get to get into shape, And it was always without any nutritional knowledge. And back in the day, like in the nineties, there wasn't a lot of you walk into a health food store. You walk into a bookstore, you didn't see a lot of good information about how to do this. The Body for Life book hadn't come out yet, which was really the very first user friendly book that came out. The first system don't want Hey, I could do this to Before that. It was like Arnold's encyclopedia bodybuilding, right?Andrew Bracewell: But that was only good for the guys. The gym rats who were who were living that lightBarry Ratzlaff: was only good for them. And also bodybuilding, weightlifting resistance training at that time and before was considered an underground activity that was not worth anything and set for meatheads. So if you were Oh, yeah, okay, if you're a linebacker for a football team or you want to be a big, thick, no neck wrestler, then you go to the gym and pump iron. But everyone else in the world should really avoid it because it's dangerous. It'll hurt your joints. It'll make you a meathead. Women will get huge and muscular and disgusting if they lift weights. So that was the common knowledge or the common wisdom of the day. And it was completely wrong, which we know now because everybody's getting into it. But back then, that's how it was. And so, uh, I had made attempts to get into shape. I remember didn't want a 98. My my local gym, too, burnt down shortly after. It wasn't my fault, but he didn't hurt down shortly after it had a get in shape contest. And I'm like, Good Lord, I'm gonna do this because I want Oh, they had a very nominal price. Whatever it was like one month, three membership in a egg of grapes. Suddenly it was just It was really dismal. But I was youth pastor. So if you waved anything in front of me, I'd be gone for it. Like Holy crap, I could win grapes. I'm doing this. And so I I did that and I starved myself down to this. But £215 not a really impressive look. Kind of soft and flat because I was starving for three months.Andrew Bracewell: It should be noted, we need to give people perspective on what, 250lb? Because 250lb for you, Junior 15 215lb for you is actually kind of small.Barry Ratzlaff: Oh, I was a bone rack. Yeah,Andrew Bracewell: because you've walked around before At what? To 265 to 270Barry Ratzlaff: today. Walked around to 265.Andrew Bracewell: And when you are a lean, mean machine, you've been to 235 to 240. 240? Yeah. So to 215 is actually tinyBarry Ratzlaff: way underweight for me. Yeah, So I in a classic fashion which so many people are familiar with, I dyed it down to this specific weight that I thought I should get to it. Not even about anything about body composition, how much muscle I had or just get down to this. Wait. How's how late can I get and quickly snap a picture before I lose my freaking mind? And as quickly as the pictures done, get me in the car and I'm going to in W for, like, five team burgers because I want to get the party started. And so I did that, and so literally IAndrew Bracewell: was actually teen burgers. Did you actually do that?Barry Ratzlaff: I was straight to in w. Had hadAndrew Bracewell: not Big Mac's, not Cooper'sBarry Ratzlaff: to team burgers to teen burgers. And awesome, I think onion rings. That's amazing. A coke it was in. SoAndrew Bracewell: a cool 2500 calories. So this this isBarry Ratzlaff: and this could be will be segueing into this later. But that that waas, that's the microcosm of everyone's diet experience, which is I'm gonna I'm gonna be disciplined, and I'm gonna totally just beat my body and make it my slave and I'm gonna be fantastic and just don't get to my goal and I will fall apart because it's completely unsustainable. And once it's like Frank the Tank and old school, once the beer hits his lips,Andrew Bracewell: it's so good. It's so good. Next thing he'sBarry Ratzlaff: streaking down looks, orders the quad. That's that's most people's that experience, which is ice restrict myself. And then I lose my freakin mind through a season like we just came through. How many times did I hear from people? You know what? I'm just gonna I'm January 1. I'm gonna be back on the wagon. You'll see. For now, I'm eating this entire tray of parties Chocolates. It's like, Okay, I get it.Andrew Bracewell: The highs and lows of New Year's resolutions. Yeah. So backBarry Ratzlaff: to the story, which is I. I won that contest, got my bag of grapes in my free month, and within six months I was back up to 60 to 70. Within 10 months, I was at 2 80 So I just my body. So your body is a very intelligent machine. It knows exactly what it shouldn't shouldn't do. And when you restrict it in a way that's very aggressive. It is lying and wait just like a tiger to pounce on. You mean metabolically and take you back up that that ladder is faster. They canAndrew Bracewell: because it's been starved. And so now it wants to. It'sBarry Ratzlaff: an evolutionary reality that our bodies are designed not to do that. They're not designed to be restricted like that. They will fight back. They fight back with a vengeance. And when they fight back, they come back in a way that we had. You think you feel good again like Oh, yeah, this is fantastic. I do love doughnuts and pasta and breads and entire loaves of bread and one sitting.Andrew Bracewell: This is fantastic.Barry Ratzlaff: But you don't realize within a very short period of time you put on 2030 £40 I'm back to where I started. So I was back to where it started and a little more right and that you hear that story again and again. So I gained all the weight back and a little extra because your body is defending itself. It's just doing what supposed to do. So then I was reading. That year was 98 United States had the body for life conscious back then was called body of work. Bill Phillips, his brother Shawn Phillips. They put this out? Yes. Um, experimental Applied Sciences had this contest out and I was looking through magazines. Saw the article. I went, Ah, I want to do it so bad. But I can't. It's only American citizens because he was giving away a Lamborghini. Oh, so it was only us start $250,000 car and it was this incredible thing. And if you've gotten, if you want, you got to be part of a movie. He was making a movie called Body of Work and he flew Flee down too. Colorado. And it was just crazy. So I wanted to do that, But it wasn't available to Canadians. So the next year 99 I hear from my gym manager a Did you hear that body body for body of work is now available to Canadian soon a Canadian version and I went okay. It is game on, but I didn't have the knowledge to do it, so I thought, OK, on. I've been down to 2 15 before. I'm gonna go hard again So for about two weeks, I started doing the same process. Restrictive nutrition and exercise up the ying yang just overkill. Just cardio, cardio, cardio and, you know, lifting weights and just just not really knowing exactly how it all works. But just throwing as much as I could against my body to see what I couldAndrew Bracewell: publish. Were you in competition like you started immediately in competitionBarry Ratzlaff: as soon as they were playing around with your body to see what you don't know, I wanted to jump right in because all you had to do was take a picture with him with a newspaper. Young people familiar with thisAndrew Bracewell: back in the day. That's what youBarry Ratzlaff: did. You did. You see, it's time stamped. Yeah, and ah, And long as it was a three month window, you could you just start and finish?Andrew Bracewell: It was a body mass index. Was it or was a fat loss, orBarry Ratzlaff: what were they preferred that you do scale weight and body mass index and you send that in and then they would be able to judge from your photos if you were telling the truth or not. If you were just trying to take them for a ride. And so I started, and I realized two weeks in. This is not going well, like I'm not gonna I really want to win this because for me, as a youth pastor, the prize was $10,000 plus a trip to Maui. Let's two year sponsorship.Andrew Bracewell: It's like 35% of your years withBarry Ratzlaff: $3000 ring and a $5000 your package. It was crazy was about $35,000 worth of stuff all together, which for a youth passed.Andrew Bracewell: That's a year. So I'm like, My God, I haveBarry Ratzlaff: to win this! And in my brain, you said you can't win. But my brains always been the kind of Brandon goes. Course I can. I just have to figure this out. So I decided I went around to local gyms, and there's only a few of the time V. R. C. There was Cedar Park Fitness Center, which was Gators after the fact. And then there was, you know,Andrew Bracewell: there are worlds andBarry Ratzlaff: there was, but this world's was long gone, you know? Where the Savoy? Yeah, the world's Jim. Yeah, And what they rose Gold's gym actually, that's right. Yes. Yeah. I was a member of their little while.Andrew Bracewell: That was the real monkey cage.Barry Ratzlaff: It was Don Schultz said that place. And it was Yeah, it was like the guys who consider themselves real lifters. There's chocolate replacing the raps and everything. Like Ruin was grunting and yeah, just a testosterone house, which I kind of like, but they didn't last. They didn't Didn't make money. So So I went around to the gyms that were in the area, and I walked in the gym and I'd look around. I'd pay, though, drop in fee. And I just look and go. Who here is amazing? Like, who looks fantastic. And I pick him up and I'd wait from the finish, their work out. I don't interrupt your workout, and I'd sit by the front door if they had a juice party. But wait there. And I asked him, Can I? And I ask you a few questions and buy you a drink, and they're like, Yeah, for sure. They'd sit down, and so I just asked them. So how did you do this? You look amazing. Like what? What's your routine? What's your nutrition and they'd start telling me they they didn't. Back then, no one was guarding secrets and there was no personal trainers in town.Andrew Bracewell: And no one's asking people those questions back then. Either know today you'd probably get a bit of a guarded response because everybody's doing it. No one wants to reveal, soBarry Ratzlaff: you'd get a little bit of a reference to a website or to an instagram account. Or sure, Do you think this guy's June or I'm doing F 45 Mark Wahlberg?Andrew Bracewell: It is my peach plan. Back off. Yeah, SoBarry Ratzlaff: I saw Mark Wahlberg humping of 45 today. And as soon as I saw him pumping, I said, He's an investor. Oh, and then I saw Yesterday another one comes up on my instagram Gap. Mark Wahlberg, investor and going for investors. Sure, that's last flogging that thing likeAndrew Bracewell: a naked dolphin anyway. But did you know that all dolphins turn? You've never seen that? It's quite the sight. Do you swing it by the tail of the head? How do you do that? Well, we can show you later. That's a live demo. Gonna get letters about cruelty to dolphin. Yeah, keep going very just going.Barry Ratzlaff: I love the dolphins. Love the war when Dan Marino was at the helm, That's okay. So I went to three or four places, talk to three or four guys that I thought were in incredible shape. And then I had one guy in my in my gym Gators Jim. Brian Wong was his name. He was this this Ah, Asian bodybuilder guy. And he was just freaking out A real like, chiseled and just huge. And every time I saw him, I went has got the craziest body like it's crazy. So I talked to him and he kind of laid it out for me. Okay, Okay. All right. And I kind of put it together, But I still was defaulting to my old habits. I couldn't help it. It's like No, no wisdom dictates. Restrict your calories, do lots of activity. That's how it works. So I kept going down that path, starving your body water, working right, So not taking into account any of the clerk balances and intake and, you know, it was crazy. So I didn't remember this date. This changed my life. In essence, this is what set me on a new path of a new career I worked out. It was probably three weeks into the process, and I worked out worked up the way I always do, just also the wall prank, that just sweating till I was dizzy. I could hardly stand up, had no energy, left my body and I went to the juice bar. They're Gators. Jim and I sat down and Brian was there. He had been watching me work out, and he talked to me earlier a couple weeks earlier or a week earlier. And he's so he sat beside me. He goes, Hey, very you're doing the, ah, the body of work contest, right? That's it. Yeah. Hey, guys, how's it going? Said I think I'm doing pretty good, but I don't totally know. I feel just dizzy all the time and weird, and I've told the story many times and the Gators gym at that time. They sold these oatmeal cookies that were literally the size of a dinner plate, like they were huge, probably 800 calorie cookie. He reaches across and he holds it up to the owner, says, Put it on. My tab passes to me and he goes eat that. I said, You're kiddingAndrew Bracewell: me. I can't eat that. He goes. How manyBarry Ratzlaff: calories do you think he just burned in your workout? I watched you. I said, I don't know. He goes. You're probably 800 to 1000 The way you train. I want 1/2 Crazy said, Eat that. You gotta start feeding this system the system and I want. Really? So I ate the cookie, sat there. He made me eat it, didn't give me any pause, ate the cookie and went home feeling just wow. Amazing. Then I started understand all the things that I'd learn from these people that I talk to you, that there's a system that your body wants to subscribe to it and it works. And you can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. People always say you can't do it. Same time I did. No steroids, no major products. I gained almost £20 of muscle and lost £50 of fat in a 14 week period. It was insane. I was being accused by guys. Watch me going. You're on juice, man. Oh, yeah. He's old juiced up here. I'm talking about me behind my back. Well, he's old. You still man, like No, not eating like a savage and training intelligently.Andrew Bracewell: Wow. So that was the beginning of your health. Fitness journey career. You eventually dropped the pastor thing. We don't have to get into the specifics of what you did there. But what year did you all of a sudden say Okay, Barry, Rats laugh, and it should be noted. Janet does this with you. Your wife? Janet. When did you say we are fitness trainers or health coaches or whatever? You call yourself a the time. Was that 2001 too?Barry Ratzlaff: S o I received. The prize is beginning of 2000. And as soon as I got home from Hawaii, they had a publication in the Muscle and Fitness magazine or the whatever the GS publication WAAS and Ah, my phone started to ring because they just they allAndrew Bracewell: theBarry Ratzlaff: published was named not phone numbers and stuff and contact info. But I started getting calls from all over the world. I'd be sleeping too. Am I get a phone call from New Zealand?Andrew Bracewell: I might have read your article that somebody like you look fantastic. Sort of. You know, it's It's a different top. There's times where and what time. So I too am a bit sorry, man, I didn't mean to do that. Okay? Can you just give me a few tips? Three chips quickly. OK, I'll tellBarry Ratzlaff: you what I did. And they stood, The phone started ringing, and I started having coffee with guys. And it happened, Maur and more and more. And so, Genesis, you need to start. You're taking a lot of time out of your scheduling. This is operating money. Sure. And I'm a youth pastor. Right? The whole idea is service for nothing. Like your life is worthless. Give it to the Lord and you may or may not get something back. We'll see. We'llAndrew Bracewell: rewards are eternal. They are. When you see the crown that you're gonna get, you'll be so excited. Yeah, but I've never worn a crown. I know, but you're gonna love Oh, my God. I love you so much. You put language to things that are in my head all the time. Just do it so much better than me. Well, there you go. SoBarry Ratzlaff: the phone was ringing. I was going out with people for coffees, and I was basically giving them my system and not charging. And then I started charging little money for it. And the first time I charge somebody, I felt so guilty. I think I charged him 50 bucks for, like, an hour and 1/2 and he just There you go the next time. And did I tried for 100? Yeah. There you go. And then I tried for 1 50 Yeah, absolutely. Totally worth it. You know, like, Okay, this is stupid. I have to I have to get certified as a trainer, so I can do this for real and charge these people for real. And so yeah. So the Jan and I decided we put our heads together, said, Let's just get certified and get her personal train certificates. And we did that. And we kind of launched while I was still a youth pastor. But knowing that things were changing in my life, I've been a youth pastor for a long time, and my energy and will to keep up and contend with kids was was kind of coming to a close, and, ah, and then the church I was part of her. That time had a big shake up in it. You know, the leader wasAndrew Bracewell: kind ofBarry Ratzlaff: going down the signs and wonders trail of kind of kookiness. And I just wanted to get out so bad. And ah, and then all the stars align. I said, You know what? I'm done the Remember the day this is this is gonna off topic, But you gotta edit this out.Andrew Bracewell: We're not in Italy on go. Yeah.Barry Ratzlaff: So I got a phone call I had worked at the at this church that I was in for eight years. I had never had a meeting with an elder. Not once, because I just did what I supposed to do. And I had an amazing youth group, a big team of volunteers. That was awesome. We had a great thing going, so no one ever bug me. They said not Leave him alone. He's doing great. Kids love him. The staff love him. It's great. I got a phone call.Andrew Bracewell: Hey. Yeah, Yeah. Berry. Yeah, this is Dave here. Ah, from the oldest board would load up a coffee with you just to discuss a few things to see howBarry Ratzlaff: your ministries going. His voice is cracking. I'm going. You're such aAndrew Bracewell: piece of shit. You You're just I know exactly.Barry Ratzlaff: I don't know exactly where he's gonna go. I knew that what I was because I had been teaching on a certain thing. Brian McLaren. A new tank. Yeah, that stuff called wind. And they're all offendedAndrew Bracewell: that there is no such thing as a new dime crystal. It's awful. So IBarry Ratzlaff: went to the meeting with the elders with my resignation letter in my pocket, walked into Tim Hortons. There they were, these two guys looking pretty nervous. They thought they'd kind of strong hand me a bit and, you know, saying Can we get you back in line? And And they said they talked about McClaren first they talked niceties. I'm going. Just get through. It just gets through that crash. I want to talk to you about my life. Then they got to the second part, which was likeAndrew Bracewell: so basedBarry Ratzlaff: on what we understand, McClaren and a new Christianity all stuff DoAndrew Bracewell: you think you can still work atBarry Ratzlaff: our church and hold those views? Because we'd love to have you as part of ourAndrew Bracewell: team, but we feel like you're shifting. I said Nope, I can't.Barry Ratzlaff: And I pulled my resignation of plotting the table said, There's my two weeks. Thank you, gentlemen. Enjoy your day. And I walked out and they just sat there with white faces because they didn't want to lose me. But they did. And I thought, this is fantastic. So I walked down the street from the Tim Hortons on the corner of South Frazer waiting. Glad when there and ah, I got about 100 feet past store and walk and feel like a 1,000,000Andrew Bracewell: bucks. I just quit a job. Oh, yes. Oh, God, Like it should be noted at that time in your life. You got young Children, four young Children, four young Children. You're you're not floating in money. No, you're you're living relatively paycheck to paycheck.Barry Ratzlaff: When I ever went to take vacations, a few of my client's razz me about this. I would go to the auctions, and at that time, in the most lucrative thing that I could flip was a mobility scooter, and some might find these mobility scooters at the auction. I'd fix them up putting batteries, and I'd sell them at a big profit so I could take my family on vacation. Would have enough money to do that. That's how he funded my fun stuff with flipping things.Andrew Bracewell: Wow. Yeah. So that's quite the story. I meet you in 2007. And so when I meet you in 2007 you've now been operating in a new way For, what, 45 years, then?Barry Ratzlaff: Yeah, we saw. That was 2001. I finished at the church. 2003 for good. And 2003. We hung basically hunger shingles. Got a website going. I remember the first guy. This is crazy. The first guy that walked through my door to be trained, uh, rob deck. He's a helicopter pilot with with chinook. He sat on my kitchen table. He wrote me a check for the full value of 36 session program the body for life program, and watched him signing this. Check this. I'm like, this is one dude, and he just wrote me a check for $1700. That's what I got paid every two weeks ofAndrew Bracewell: the church. Like this is if I could get like, I'm withBarry Ratzlaff: these guys, I'm I'm going golden and my very first client, Rob Dick. He won the Canadian body for life.Andrew Bracewell: That's so so cool because I had no one you coached. You coached him and doing that? Yeah. Okay,Barry Ratzlaff: now he's just another one.Andrew Bracewell: I knew you had done that. I just didn't know who you would coach. But that's the guy you coached to. Yeah, Okay.Barry Ratzlaff: And I coached on the guy in Chilled like Rob, Best former gym owner of gators. And he won the Canadian body for life. So we actually five champions. You're a little old, Jim.Andrew Bracewell: Not everybody in life gets to experience this, unfortunately, But the thing that you just alluded to that ah ha moment that you can have in life where you get paid fair value for the value that you bring her for your time. Yeah, It's quite a life changing moment to experience that not everybody gets to, but clearly for you, that was significant. And and I have experienced that as well.Barry Ratzlaff: So it was huge, and it's very difficult to accept that. Like, to believe you're worthy of that money. Absolutely. It just doesn't seem right.Andrew Bracewell: Hey, you. You touched on something. Really? I want to circle back to because there's a whole rabbit hole that we can go down. You talked about how, when, in the early part of your journey, your old mind thought, work hard, starve yourself And somewhere along the way, your new mind with your cookie story, and then thereafter learned that work hard and actually give your body a bounty. All right, good nutrition. And that is something. If I could explain that, that's a similar experience I had with you. So when I met you in 2007 and we don't have to get into the all of my story, well, maybe we can if you want, but my old brain thought the same thing. Starvation is nutrition, but that is not the case. So can you just dive into that a little bit and then also speak to the significant transformation, or maybe the ups and downs of the nutrition world in the last 20 years of you, as you've observed it from your chair?Barry Ratzlaff: Yeah, the ah, the value of nutrition cannot be overstated. It's easily 78. 80% of any successful short term and long term program is nutrition. It has to be your body's designed to use fuel in a way that makes sense to it. If it doesn't get what it needs, it's gonna basically shut itself down. It'll it'll turn itself off in and you won't get anywhere. Um, everyone has those experiences of plateaus and in their routines, plateaus, and some of them are normal. Some of them are very, very damaging. So the idea of understanding a your metabolic level like Where's What are you burning at rest in a given day? Well, I'm sitting here talking to you,Andrew Bracewell: which is different for everybody, right?Barry Ratzlaff: It's different for everybody, particularly for folks. So when I get people come to the gym doors that I know how it's called metabolic damage. So they have done dieting. They've done Kato. They've done all these horrific things to themselves and some of them not so horrific. Some of them truly are very, very damaging. They really need a start up there. They're burning, you know, 1500 calories a day when they should be burning 2500 calories aAndrew Bracewell: day because they've trained their body to live on starvation. Their bodies furnace is running at such an incredibly low.Barry Ratzlaff: They haven't trained anything. They've just caused a huge reaction in their system. The bodies is defending itself. It's just going into this retreat mode where it's gonna hold on to any calories it gets rather than burn them off,Andrew Bracewell: right? If you only want to give me 1200 calories, then I will learn how to operate off 12. And I haveBarry Ratzlaff: to, and it happens within 7 to 10 days. So so that's why I'm such a huge proponent of Sai clicked. Cyclist. Nutrition and every user were dieting. It's cycling contrition, so eating up and eating down and knowing where the line is and making sure the eating up enough to keep your metabolism stoked eating down enough that if you're trying to get off some body, thought you could do that, but only in a very short period of time. It's it's really a 5 to 7 day window that you can cycle through before your body begins to catch on. So, like, for instance, body for life, I keep referring to that people. It's funny. Whenever I talk to people body for life, they go,Andrew Bracewell: Oh hey, yeah, I did that program back in the day I'm like and yeah, I got I lost, like, £40 I felt fantastic. And I started stopped doingBarry Ratzlaff: it because of the next thing came out. Whatever it was, South Beach came out. And And Tony, whatever his name is in the PX nine year P 90 X came out. You know, the next thing came out and people think, Oh, all these programs revolving the human species must be evolving. So I have to change with the times like and then, uh, didn't you read the title of the book body for life Like It's for life? This works for life. I've been doing it 20 years. When I first had the this Ah ha moment began eating like this where I was eating 5 to 6 times a day on o'clock, measured amounts knew it was going in. It was going out. I was still working in the church at that time, and I go down to the staff room. I had I bought a blender, brought it in there. I have my own box of shakes there in the cupboard and remember is blending. One day one of the secretaries came in. She goes, she kind of looked at me with this sort of not really disdain, but, like, really, really, that's what you're doing. I know all about diets and she goes, How long can you keepAndrew Bracewell: that up? I said, Honestly, well, would Weight Watchers have been a thing at that time? Yes, like that's I remember Weight Watchers. So maybe her experience with dieting was probably something like that, which is heavy restrictionBarry Ratzlaff: going way back. Like you even reference still ity that that Atkins was 1972 started in 1972. Resurgence in the nineties and all the way through James Fix and his running, you know, his extreme running the guy who ran himself to death and had a heart attack. There was stuff all along the way. That was basically they were potholes for people to have these experiences of restriction, to lose weight and then to realize they couldn't do it. They blame themselves, and the diet industry lies heavily on that, that we will blame ourselves for it not working, and then we'll come back again and try harder next time because, well, I failed last time because I am a failure, not the program was a failure. If the program solid it is, does it is supposed to do? And it it has some degree of longevity built into it. It should work for anybody, really. But that's not how it worksAndrew Bracewell: so well, Call it cyclical dieting that fair. So you've embraced cyclical cyclical dieting for the last 20 year. So years. In that time, you've also now observed all of the fad diets, and you alluded to some of them. Whether it's Atkins, Kato, South Beach, I could probably think of a couple others if I scratch my head. Yeah, Paleo Haley. Oh, yeah, yeah. How has that have you? How have you had to deal with that in terms of your clients and your street conversations? And how has that impacted your business and whatever the parties, you're right where you're sipping cocktails and everyone has an opinion on something.Barry Ratzlaff: Everybody has an opinion because everyone has a body and everyone's a mouth and everyone's a smartphone. Put those together and you gotta just a dynamite box for people to have this knowledge about how you know what works and what doesn't the thing about. So let's let's pick on a current one, and I'm not picking on on purpose. I'm picking on it because I've seen too many bad stories or I seen the stories and poorly too many times. So it's Kato. Now People come to me and say, What do you think about Kato? And the thing I always say first is it works. It works like a hot damn if you're trying to get your body fat reduced. If you don't care about losing muscle mass, you don't care about losing your metabolic potential. If you're just trying to get lighter, you can't get better than kitto. You'll you'll lose fat at a shocking rate. But you'll also lose water, which is a big piece of the puzzle, because when you lose carbohydrates, carbohydrates and water bond in your system toehold in the muscle tissue, so you lose water. You lose a big monument that way. But the payoff at the end, or the payout at the end of that process is always always a nightmare. So two stories Ah guy, I know I won't see the place where he's employed, but I saw him at his place of employment about two years ago, and I saw him. And he's normally about £340 for here and £30. And he was maybe 200. I was like, Oh, my goodness. What have you done? He goes a I know, right? Look at this. Crazy. He's touching this. Get on his stomach. It's all floppy in loose and thinking. Maybe he has to have some surgery on that. And I said, So what you do. And he goes, I did. Kato got in a Keogh plan and just dropped 100. And whatever was £140. I'm like, Dude, you look amazing. Like you're You look amazing. And so then I inserted my caveat, which is No, I'm proud of you. Amazing job. Can I ask you a question? Yes. Is this sustainable? Can you do this for the rest of your life? He goes, I don't know if I can eat whole cream and bacon for breakfast every day. And avocados and and steak fat like like I know, I know. So I'm asking you, can you just forever. No, I can't. It's okay. I said, Are you thinking of transitioning into Ah, balanced lifestyle, Ingles? Yes, I am. I said king. Promise me this that you will phone me when the time comes and we can have a discussion. And I can help you set up a plan to get this thing done right? Because I will. I will. I said I won't charge you. I am so vested in this that I want to give this to you as a gift of Don't. Don't do this, man. Don't go down that road. I've seen it too many times. She goes okay. I will. I will. We lost touch. I didn't see him. He got transferred that story to another store. And ah, about a year later, he was then transferred back to the store and I saw him and I went Oh, my goodness. He was 3 50 I saw him and I I walked up and said, Hey, how's it going, man? He goes, Hey, and you could see the look of shame and defeat in his eyes because I hadn't changed at all over that year. But he had put on 100 and £50 and ah, hey, just he was a defeated human being and the chance of him being able to recover from that and get the weight down in a healthy way. Extremely, extremely low possibility ofAndrew Bracewell: that. So I would suggest from my anecdotal experience, which is not as vast as yours but as I've observed many of these bad diets from the sideline, I fortunately, you know, met you years ago when I did and embraced. What I would say is the right long term, holistic, healthy way of tackling the conversation of health and fitness. But what I've seen in the others is that the focus is weight loss predominantly without having to put work in in the gym. Is that a fair statement of a lot of those? Because my experience has been tackled the nutrition piece. But then along with the nutrition piece, is you gotta work your ass off in the gym. And if you're not willing to work your ass off in the gym than long term, it's not sustainable because our bodies are meant to move and work and anything that says you don't have to move and work is a trick that that's my own. Is that fair?Barry Ratzlaff: Absolutely early. Atkins early Kato. Others variations of Kitano called dirty heat or psych like Ito, where people are trying to make it a process where you could do this for life and you can incorporate exercise extreme exercise. And you can break muscle tissue down like we do in the gym and have it rebuild because carbohydrates are a fairly essential process part of that process. Um, yeah, that's a very fair statement to make.Andrew Bracewell: So where I go with this in my brain is that I look at the evolution of, you know, mankind and I think Okay, so let's go back 405 100,000 years ago, whatever we did not have to work to move in, that our body movement and physical activity came as a byproduct of what had to happen. Every day we were connected to the Earth. We had to work the ground, you know, work, work, the livestock. I mean, just to live and eat required physical exertion. And then we go through this metamorphosis evolutionary experience in life, and today we don't have to move. You and I could sit here on a chair in a lethargic state and be just fine with computers and smartphones and whatever else we want to add to that so I find, because of my own health experience and the fact that I was obese at a point time. My life. I find myself having these conversations now with our Children who are growing up in an even more lethargic state than I grew up in. And it's interesting because I don't think working out is a natural thing. I don't think a human just wakes up one day and says, I want to go push. Wait, So I'm gonna go for a run so we maybe have toe work. We have to convince ourselves that we need to do this because of the lethargic state that were in there were naturally living. And I'm having this conversation with my Children and they're even fighting me on it. But my fear is that if we don't train ourselves early that we need to do this, then you know we end up in a place that we don't want to be in. It's just Ah, this is a convo that were in every day, and I think we're here because of where we've come evolutionary on evolution basis.Barry Ratzlaff: Oh yeah, and I mean there's in the last 30 40 years There's been a huge movement in the school system to move away from physical activity as legislated. So my son was here for Christmas, and he's a personal trainer, Victoria. He was reading a book called Spark, and he was very excited about it. He was telling me a little excerpt from it. Basically, it's based on a gentleman's research down in Idaho where it's I think it's Idaho. It's the only state that has legislated physical activity in the states. Still, most of them moved away. They've cut those programs, so they've gotten rid of art. They've got rid of music, and they got rid of a visit. This guy was really interesting to visit because the neurotrophic value of exercise. So in this little enclave in Idaho, where these students air forced to forced to exercise their grades, are off the charts better in some of their math scores than Stan. Chinese schools, like these kids are killing it, and they're discovering that what happens to the brain when it's forced to B e, the bodies used in a way that you know, resistance training, intense exercise. It's the only way you can create these. These neural pathways in these chemicals, your endorphins in your serotonin and all these good things. They're supposed to be part of who we are, and they really helped build the brain in a functional way, an i Q way. And so there were just We've moved away from very, very valuable pieces of who we are as human beings, thinking they were not straws we don't need that would get the car and driver were going. Who wants to walk, well, well, ourselves around the mall, there's escalators. Take us up on the flights of stairs. There's all these things not knowing that we're shooting ourselves in the foot literally, um, physically. And we need to get back to the basics of why it's important for all this work to happen for our bodies. Fascinating for sure.Andrew Bracewell: You have a unique chair that you sit in in what in your vocation and what you do on the way, I'll do my best to describe it, and you can tell me if I've done a good job of it a little happy Speak to it. But my observation of you is that the majority of your clients are high level achievers in their varying areas of profession. And these people sit with you 34 times week for an hour or more, and you get to dialogue with them. And I've often thought that is fascinating that six, maybe five days, a week, eight hours a day or more. You're with high level achieving humans who have chosen to put their fitness and health versus a priority. What is that? What is that like to be in that environment 24 7 IBarry Ratzlaff: would say it's ah, it's encouraging in a in a weird way. You think? Oh, man, you're on these people, these these these humans, they're they're worth hundreds of millions of dollars and they're out there pulling strings. You know, in the real world that they're in control of some really cool stuff and they walked through my door and the door closes and agent, I just see the relief would go across your face there like a They're in a safe place, a place where they could be themselves. They can tell me what's going on inside of themselves because they know I have, ah, counseling pastoral history. And that piece of me didn't die like I still have a passion for understanding, helping and loving human beings in a way that gets them to a new place.Andrew Bracewell: That's the Lord Berry. I know the spirit of peace is in my hut. Gonna touch you in a way you have imagined. Okay, E i e I know it doesn't take much to get you off theBarry Ratzlaff: tangents air their attention there. So these guys come through the door and it's I just trained guys. I do train. Currently, I have one female, which is your wife, and you come together as a couple, but mostly guys and they come in andAndrew Bracewell: they should be noted. Your wife trainsBarry Ratzlaff: My wife trains the ladies? Yes, she works with ladies. Shay works, but the lady isn't at work with the gentleman.Andrew Bracewell: It seems to be the best system we could very old fashioned. Arranged.Barry Ratzlaff: It is. It is. Yeah. Yeah, it just saves us from from issues. Sure, Yeah, yeah. From issues that could be life altering. So we don't want to go down those paths. So they come through the door and the it's it's fantastic because they get to be riel. They love this. The pieces of it that I find very curious. They love me, telling them what to do because in their lives no one tells them what to do. They make the rules. If they can't make the rule, they'll buy a new rule like it's it's pretty cool. So they walk through the door and they kind of go, OK, Dad, what are you doingAndrew Bracewell: today like All right, here we go.Barry Ratzlaff: And off we go on our little journey or fitness journey. But it's way more than a fitness journey for these guys. It's always way more there. Is there so much more? In terms of the they need a place where they can be themselves. They need a place like cheers where everyone knows your name. Or at least one guy knows your name, your true name. And ah, we'll hear you out. You could tell me stuff thatAndrew Bracewell: you get it all right. Like you're you're in the therapist here Stuff? Yeah,Barry Ratzlaff: but every month I hear someone say I not even my wife knows this. Sure,Andrew Bracewell: but except me, honey, I don't talk to bury that way on DDE.Barry Ratzlaff: I'm totally good with it, like and I'd have no no needs toe feel like Oh, yeah, this is great. Having this insider information, it's like, No, it's like you're what you're telling me is in the vault and to guess what, We're all the same. And that's not a piece that makes me feel really good when these guys air coming up. Now what that way is that we are all the same. We all walk the same earth and we have the same issues. It doesn't matter if you have $100 million or $100 you face the same shit and it's how you deal with it that counts. Right now, these guys deal with things very differently. Their minds. So this is This is a note I made earlier in coming into. This is when I see and I was talking to one of my clients essay about this very factor, which is when someone walks through the door of the gym and I can usually tell how they're gonna react to pain. The way a person's pain response is is often how they'll function in life and most Taipei's. When you give them pain, it's sparked something in them. It doesn't shut them down. Most people get pain. They're like,Andrew Bracewell: Oh, that hurts. That hurts that IBarry Ratzlaff: I don't want to do that. That's that's uncomfortable, but a type A or like a really achiever. They feel pain, and it actually sparks curiosity.Andrew Bracewell: Yeah, I don't I don't even not toe push back on your comment. But I think it would be unfair to say Taipei's because there's there's people, maybe who aren't Taipei's who are high achievers. Yeah, I put that you agree not to pick what you're saying, but I know what I know. The spirit of what you're trying to say. People who are capable of a lot respond differently than those that are not. Is that it or not? Yeah, yeah,Barry Ratzlaff: I've had clients that that one is specific. Who every time I put a weight in his hand and he would do a rap as the way it was coming up, he was literally be saying outAndrew Bracewell: loud, out, out, out, out, out, out, and doesn't go down. Oh, out, out!Barry Ratzlaff: And he lasted two weeks and quit because for obvious reasons, yeah, versus a guy who I'll say, OK, this set is 10 wraps. He'll look at me and I like a challenge like 10. I'm giving you 12 and off he goes and he'll get his 12 like it just doesn't matter what number give. It's always more always moreAndrew Bracewell: the pattern in these people's lives just manifesting itself in the It is in the weight room.Barry Ratzlaff: Now on the inverse someone who has had not much success in life, who gets their physical self under control. They begin to see a spill over into all of their life. I heard it again and again and again like I don't know what's happening. But as I'm getting in better shape, I'm way more productive at work. Things were going so much better. My relationship with my wife, my family, is getting better like what's happening to me like it's like your body's doing what's designed to do, the chemicals air flowing. It'sAndrew Bracewell: well, I I'll, so I'll share a piece of my story with you. But I mean, I So I encountered you twice, encountered you first in 2000 and seven, and the things that I learned with you in that moment, I didn't stick with it. And, you know, we were with each other for maybe a year and I went away and I continued in some unhealthy living. But I came back to you in 2012 and the transformation I went through in 2012 I think at my highest I was £235. I was over 30% body fat. I was, by definition I was obese and I was 29 years old and I have been told I was pre diabetic from a doctor who scared the living shit out of me and thank God that he did, because had he not I probably I had this false confidence in my brain. Even though I wasn't amazing, I still thought I was amazing. I still have that to this day. Really. But in that moment I was like a soft bowl of pudding, and I probably thought like I was a middle linebacker, you know? But I needed to have the shit scared out of me. I did came back in 2012 point of the story being the transformation I went through with you in that let's say 6 to 12 month period in that second time back, and I've been with you ever since. But through the fall of 12 the first half of 13 I remember I went from £235 down to 182. I got my body fat index below 10%. I'm not living at that level today, but I went there and it changed my life. It so for me there was, you know, something that occurred in the gym spilled over into into the rest of my life. In the my family health, the health of my career, the way I engaged with humans, just my overall well being mental well being actually snapped in that, you know, in that space that we had together in the gym,Barry Ratzlaff: it's powerful. I mean, the rock calls it his anchor, right? The gym is his anchor. People think it's because he's he loves weightlifting or is addicted to it. Or, you know, he's a huge, muscular guy. But with that guy scheduled the things that he does on a daily basis, the anchor is it gives him his mental stability. It gives him the ability to do all the things he does, comes from his resistance training. Yeah, there's no mystery there and the world is starting to wake up to it. It's taken a while. Like when I first started lifting. That was 13 of 30 years old. When he first got into training, it was still an underground thing. People looked at kind of scoffed at it. Remember talking to people, body for life. And they say, Do I have to do the weight part? Like the weightlifting part?Andrew Bracewell: That's kind of gross. What other partisans? Yeah, I don't want to do cardioBarry Ratzlaff: kind to cardio new body for life. You have to modify it for you. It's not really gonna give you what you want, but okay. But now people are starting to to come awake to it. And unfortunately, as humans always do, they've gone just far, far too extreme with it. Power lifting was never meant to be competitive in the sense of repetition wise, it's Yeah. I want to go there right now because it gets me going real hot when I start thinking about those things. Yeah. WeAndrew Bracewell: don't wanna get you angry, Berry. No, no, no, no. So I had a conversation with somebody else. We're not gonna say names, but somebody else who's a client two years. We're discussing the fact that you were gonna be on the show. We both, you know, admire and love you and the conclusion. So the question we asked herself were like, Well, what? What makes very different wise, Very amazing, Because there's, you know, there's a 1,000,000 trainers in the world. Everybody's a trainer. I mean, you must feel like that in your industry. Literally. Everybody's a trainerBarry Ratzlaff: we started with. There was none in Abbotsford. We're the first ones. People saying Can you actually make a living doing that? IAndrew Bracewell: said, I don't know. I don't know.Barry Ratzlaff: So it worked. But now it's Yeah, everyone's got a personal train certificateAndrew Bracewell: I've got. I've got up European Swiss ball in my basement and I've got padding and I've got dumbbells that range from £3 all the way to £14 I'm gonna get in the best shape of your life. There's people are gonna listen This they're actually gonna feel conviction. Thio Shit. He's talking about me. I might be Oh, and keep doing what you're doing. Cut the air. Beautiful. Just the way. So here's the Here's the conclusion we came to as to why Why is very rats off? Amazing. Why is he not just one of the others? And it was this. You have all the knowledge you have, the physical knowledge nailed. So when it comes to how to lift weights, how to train, how to grow muscle, you know, you know that you know the body very, very well. You also have the nutrition piece absolutely hammered. And the evidence is in the 20 years of proof of successful clients and people who have made significant changes to their body. But more so than any of those two things, it's very obvious that you care the most about the mind. And I don't know if this is something. You just woke up one day and said, I need to care for the human mind more than you know. I don't know what the conversation is. I don't even know if you've ever thought of this or would agree with it. But I would suggest that when somebody trains with you, their brain is as important to you as anything else. What do you What do you think about that?Barry Ratzlaff: Absolutely. I mean, the first thing was, someone walks to the door they're not, Ah, a client in the sense of a person I make money from. I don't even Janet when for the 1st 3 or four years she had to force me to ask for money because I wasn't I didn't care. I get it. We have to pay bills. But I I was so excited to work with people one on one in a sincere it was almost a pastor or a relationship without the religious crap. It was human, really into human. Let's let's just sort of put our minds together and see what we come up come up with here and ah, so yeah, I I really love it. And when I get a client coming through who's not really willing to open on that level, it's kind of disappointing, Like I realized pretty quick on this person. They don't want to go deep. They just want to get their workout in, and often that relationship won't last that long, but fromAndrew Bracewell: because you only have so much time. You don't want to give your time to somebody who's not. It was not all fully engagedBarry Ratzlaff: now, and because we are holistic beings, the mind, the body the spirit, whatever that may be, our completely connected. And so we can't pretend that just lifting weights is gonna make me a healthy human. It's like, absolutely not like your brain is 80% of the equation. If your brain's messed up and it's thinking like some really bad shit about who you are, how you function amongst people boat your relationship with your wife for your kids or whatever, you're not gonna be healthy. That's not health.Andrew Bracewell: And you see that, right? I mean, I can't even say that you've seen that you have to speak about other clients. But in me, let's say there's a direct relation to be in terms of where the person's brain is that and then their physical output. Oh,Barry Ratzlaff: yeah, moments. Yeah, I've seen it in you. When you went through the process over the last year and 1/2 of purchasing the company and the stress load you're carrying, um, the effect it had on you and your wife like put strain on everything and it shows up in how you perform in the gym. And you know what, Jim? Performance as I say the guys all the time. That's secondary just let the weights be the weights every any given Sunday. Give it a week or two. You'll be back up to the weights you're pushing before. Don't sweat it. Do the routine. Get the chemicals flowing. Feel good. This is good. We're doing a good thing here. And then two or three weeks later Oh, I feel fantastic and you're crushing it again. And it's not supposed to be.Andrew Bracewell: Yeah, What's that? You always say this to me. Your cause, your muscles don't know that the weight they don't only whale the resistance. The only No intensity, right, Right, So you could be having a shitty day and whatever doing dumbbells at £70. And you know, you could do nineties or 100 but your your muscles don't know the difference between that. They're under full load and they're maxed out. That's all they know.Barry Ratzlaff: Fibers. They're they're doing that they're doing. They're very, very best for you at that point. And if they're doing their best, that's all they can do. It's your brain. That's the problem. Your brain sees the 60 on the dumbbells or the 80 and you start beating yourself up. What's your problem? look at that. You're a piece of sheer. So weak. Well, you need, sir. Beat yourself up likeAndrew Bracewell: No, don't do that. Like I haveBarry Ratzlaff: days. I tell guys I have days and actually learn this from from Schwarzenegger, cause I remember reading an article way back in the eighties about him and he and he said, Ah, there, days he goes. He's the first proponent that Ah, weightlifting is 80% mental. It's all in the mind. And so he said he'll come to that. He'd come to the gym and he kind of get his warm up, down and get ready in his first sets and realized I'm not here today mentally. And you'd leave. I'm like, What? No, no, no Pushed through. And it started to embrace that idea that Yeah, there's days when I go to the gym when I'm not present, so I'll walk in. I'll do my warm up. Something's not right. My head somewhere else. Go back to the house, live to fight another day. Come back the next day, feel a 1,000,000 bucks and crush it. So but my clients will that prove a can't just showAndrew Bracewell: up like you know what I don'tBarry Ratzlaff: feel so good. I'm gonna go and come back tomorrow, Uh, can't fit you in. But okay,Andrew Bracewell: so if you were to write a memoir or a book, as I alluded to earlier in which he spoken to you, you've spent a lot of time with a lot of high level people in a variety of industries. What would be the theme of that memoir in that? What would be your commentary on? Is there a similar thing that all of these humans do? Or is there a trait where you go? Yeah, they're totally unrelated. Different industries, different professions. But there's this one or two things that are just common. Is that Is that something that exists or no,Barry Ratzlaff: I would say the most pivotal piece and all that would be what they truly believe about themselves or what they truly have embraced about themselves. That someone else has taught them so for, ah, high achiever. For the most part, these people believe a they can do these things. They believe they're worthy of success. Um, when the money comes, they're okay with that. They know how to work with it. They can manage it. And they feel worthy of that. And when it comes to the gym, they kind of think, Yeah, I'm here because you know what you're doing. And if I work with you, this is gonna be fine. We're going to get somewhere vs a mind that's been beaten down. It doesn't believe anything good about itself and sees nothing but negative around itself. And all those things have a way of manifesting too, you know, financial trouble in relational trouble and all down and poured nutritional habits. The all our site Click it so and they'll spiral down in this pool so that you're spiraling up with positive self image or you're splattering down. And so there's one trait these guys would carry and the few women have worked with its Their minds are strong. They have their self image is intact and they believe good things about themselves. Not not cocky, kind of like you're you're just a dick about about yourself, but actually good, positive things that yeah, you're you're a good human, and what you bring to the table is valuable. It's worth something, and you have something to offer. And so they they believe that. And it has a way of manifesting in their life in success.Andrew Bracewell: It never ceases to amaze me how I feel like no matter what the topic in life, everything always boils down to the health of the brain. Oh, absolutely, it's just mind blowing. Absolutely. I think our world has opened up more to that conversation there. We're more aware of it now, so it's getting talked about more. But it's just fascinating to me that you could be talking about something that you think has nothing to do with the brain. And then at the end of the day, just it all boils down. Two to the health of the brain.Barry Ratzlaff: Mental health is it's a burgeoning field. It's crazy to say that because we've had self help books and psychology books around for for 50 years, but it is. It's a burgeoning field, in a sense that people are becoming aware that mental illness. Um, and we used to think mental illnesses like you belong in Riverdale like off to the mental house with you, right? But mental illness has got, you know, so many layers on so many levels, and whatever your level is, it's it's legit. What you're feeling what? The way you're talking to yourself, the voices in your head, the voice of your father in your head, voice of your boss in your head, all conspiring to this sort of ah stew of either positivity or some really, really nasty negativity that old don't have kept your life. It'll make you incapable of doing certain things and achieving certain things.Andrew Bracewell: And it's also possible that you can be feeling really shitty in your brain and down on yourself, and you don't have a mental illness. You're just in a really shitty state. And so what do you What do you say to somebody? Or what would you say to somebody? Because the majority of the world, I think it's not the people that have the healthy self image image right, and they struggle to find their fitness path and have confidence in the gym and eternal life Run. What do you What do you do with that? Like, what's the What's the first thing to try to overcome? If someone's just so they're shit kicking themselves so much in their head that even if they put the right thing in front of them, they're still gonna have a hard time because in their head they're just pieces of shit.Barry Ratzlaff: I think the first action step is get off social media. Stop looking at Instagram pictures of people who have perfect bodies and our purveying these perfect lives because that is such a negative thing for your brain. It's complete horseshit. It iss it's so, so destructive. And I think about our kids, Um, and not just teens. I think about kids. Your your kid's age. Yeah. Who are exposed to this already? Yeah, they're grading themselves from judge themselves against these images and thinking, Well, why don't I look that way? How come I don't have a $1,000,000 I'm 19 years old? You know, like Billy Isla? She's a millionaire and she's 19. Like how come I don't have that? It's so unhealthy. So the first thing I'd say to somebody who's struggling with self image stuff is stopped feeding yourself the negativity and it might come in is positivity like, Oh, this is a This this person has amazing instagram account. You've got all these things going that seems really positive, but you spend it and becomes negative because you're not those things get rid of that stuff. That's that's poison to your brain. Second, find to human beings that you know love and trust and hold on to their evaluation of you. They're the ones that matter so that your mom, your dad, your brother, your sister, your husband, your wife and they've been saying for years.Andrew Bracewell: What are you talking about? You're awesome. I loveBarry Ratzlaff: you. You're perfect. The way you are. Get the other voices out of your head. Hold onto to that. Say you're amazing and hold on to those because that's all accounts we had to pick her life. Who are you? You're you're champions for you. Your cheerleading section, You got everything that's the place to start. And then then once you kind of got your the the the atmosphere around your clear. Now start looking for examples of what you think you could be capable of, Like what I did back in the day when I went gym to gym and said, I want to talk to these guys because they're doing what I want to do. So why would I read a book or try to make it up myself when I could talk to them. They they're doing it right now in front of me. Find people who are doing what you think is, you know, lets your passion and you know that stuff that

You know my name but who the heck am I? I'll be sharing more about myself and the journey that led me to dipping my toe in the podcasting world.

On today's show, Zach sits down with Jorge Corral, Accenture's Office Managing Director for Dallas/North Texas. He speaks about his experiences as a first-generation professional and what fuels his passion for Latinx representation in the STEM fields, and he also shares three points of advice for Latinx professionals.Connect with Jorge on LinkedIn and Twitter!Search open positions at Accenture.com.Check out Accenture's Inclusion and Diversity Index!Connect with Accenture on the following platforms: LinkedIn, Twitter, IG, Facebook, YouTubeTRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate, and look, if you didn't hear the last time or the last time before the last time, I gotta share something with y'all, okay? Living Corporate has partnered with Accenture to feature some of their most experienced black and brown North American managing directors to share their journeys. My hope is that you check these out and you peep the links in the show notes to learn more about each of them, including our next guest, Jorge Corral. Jorge Corral is the Accenture office managing director for the Dallas/North Texas region. He is the global lead for Accenture's sourcing and procurement business for the products industry and also leads Accenture's Southwest retail practice. Hold on. So look, he got both of these places, right? He got both of 'em, okay? Jorge serves as a senior business advisor to many senior global Fortune 500 executives and has helped a wide variety of large retail and consumer goods companies to drive top-line growth and to improve their profitability through transformational change. He has spoken as an expert at various retail, shared services, inclusion and diversity, and procurement conferences. He is a board member of the United Way of Metropolitan Dallas and the Dallas Regional Chamber. Jorge was recently profiled in the D CEO Magazine list of the most powerful business leaders in Dallas-Fort Worth. Listen, the most powerful business leaders. Not the most powerful Latinx business leaders, not the most powerful leaders of color. One of the most powerful business leaders period, okay? Check that out. Sound Man, go ahead and give me them air horns for that right there. [air horns sfx] You know what I'm saying? And no disrespect to the--you know, making sure that you have the specifications around identity, but what I'm saying is he's just cold, right? He's just--he's that guy, okay? [laughs] In 2018, Jorge was recognized as one of the top minority business leaders by Dallas Business Journal and was also a finalist for D Magazine's 2018 Latino Executive of the Year. With that being said, the next thing you'll be hearing is the interview I had with Jorge Corral.[pause]Zach: And like I said right before the break, we have Jorge Corral with us. Jorge, how are you doing? Welcome to the show.Jorge: Thank you. Thanks for having me, Zach. It's a pleasure.Zach: Man, it's a pleasure all mine, trust that. So, you know, I just want to go ahead and just give a little bit of cheers--[children applause sfx]--for the fact that you're here. We appreciate that. For those of us who don't know you, would you mind sharing a little bit about yourself?Jorge: Yeah. My name is Jorge Corral. I'm the Dallas office managing director at Accenture, which means I lead an office of more than 2,000 people in the Dallas-Fort Worth region, and my job is to really bring the services of Accenture and everything Accenture has to offer to solve business problems for our Dallas clients. And it's also about connecting Accenture more broadly to the DFW community. I also work in Accenture's management consulting practice, helping companies transform their businesses in different ways. I studied engineering and have two graduate degrees in mechanical engineering, and I also have a master's in business administration. And on a personal level, I have four kids and a wonderful wife. I was raised in a large Hispanic family in California, in Southern California to be specific. I was raised with five awesome siblings in a very large extended family, and frankly I think that's what set me up for success in the world I live in now, in consulting, because at the end of the day consulting is all about relationships, and I certainly learned plenty about relationships and relationship skills growing up in a big extended family.Zach: That's incredible. So, you know, you're talking about the fact that you came from relationships, and then that--and like you said, that translates into the relationships you now manage, not only internally within your Dallas office, but also externally in your community building and relationship building, which we're gonna talk about today. But, you know, you had a bunch of flexes within your bio. You talked about your professional background. You talked about your educational background. You talked about your family. You know, I can't really say congratulations on every single thing 'cause, you know, we only have, like, 30, 45 minutes, but I can drop some air horns. So let me just go ahead and--[air horns sfx]Jorge: [laughs] You are too nice. Thanks.Zach: No, no, it's not a problem at all. Now, in an interview with The Business Journals last year, you talked about better integrating the Accenture Dallas office with the Dallas community, and you expounded on some corporate partnerships that you helped build and amplify. Can you share more about the role of influence and relationships that they play in an executive position, particularly as a member of the Latinx community?Jorge: Yeah, I mean, I--I'll share to begin with that I like to live by one of the principles I learned from many people along the way, including my parents, and that's I really believe we're all responsible for making the world a better place, today and for the future. So for me, I personally didn't get to where I am by accident. I got a lot of help, directly and indirectly, along the way, and I recognize that many people broke a path so that I could have my opportunities. So I'm happy to find a way to give back, and in my Accenture role, you know, I'm really lucky and truly fortunate to be able to give back in different ways. So an example, over the last couple of years I've been able to join the board of the United Way of Metropolitan Dallas, and two years ago, we, Accenture, were able to commit to being the presenting sponsor of their Social Innovation Accelerator program. That really helps accelerate and mentor new non-profits that are providing support for our communities in different ways and solving problems that are around education, income, and health for our DFW community. So I've also been able to speak to Latinos on various platforms is another thing that I've had the opportunity to do, and that's both internally and externally. So internally as part of the Hispanic-American employee resource group leadership and externally at places like the University of Texas-Arlington's Center for Mexican-American Studies, where I've gotten just a lot of reward from being able to mentor Hispanic youth with a lot of promise. And I also have had the chance in the local community to serve on different panels, and one of the panels that I'm able to serve on from time to time is, you know, where we bring in 200+ middle school and high schoolers, and I just share some of my life stories and my life experiences up on the stage. And it's less about the story I tell you and more about sometimes when you're young, just looking up on the stage and seeing somebody that looks like you, sounds like you, that alone makes things possible. So I'm happy to give back in whatever way I can.Zach: Jorge, that's all facts. You're absolutely right, you know? It's interesting, because for me, you know, I thought about getting into consulting, and I--for me, I didn't even know it was something possible until I was in college and I just happened to see a black man who told me he worked at Accenture. And I was like, "What is--" You know, "What is that?" Right? And it went from something, you know, abstract and kind of esoteric to something actually very practical and possible, right? So 100% agree there. And speaking a little bit more about sharing your story, right? You came from humble beginnings as a son of Mexican immigrants. So not only you are a first-generation corporate professional, you're also a first-generation American as well. So what do you think are some experiences that are exclusive to first-generation Americans of color, and what advice do you have for those who are also the first in their family to really enter corporate America?Jorge: Well, I'll say that's a big, big question. I'll share my--I'll share my life story and a little bit about myself in hopes that, you know, some of that would--people could relate to it and maybe get something out of it. So I would just say that I feel really lucky and privileged in my background, because I'm part of a connected, large, loud, proud, loving, bilingual, bi-cultural family, and for me that is--I can't imagine a different life for myself. And for me I was very lucky 'cause I had very good role models. Like a lot of immigrants, my parents had an ambitious vision and were willing to put in a lot of hard work and invest the bulk of their lives so that their kids could have big, big opportunities. My parents were big, big into education as the way to advance us, and they sacrificed a lot for me. And, you know, in a lot of ways they didn't just talk about it, they lived it. So I'll tell you a quick side story. My mom went back to college at age 40 when I was 12 years old with six kids at home and a part-time job. So, you know, you can't imagine a better role model, right? And I also had smart, ambitious siblings who helped me too. So, you know, I've been really lucky in a lot of ways with my family life, and I'm also really grateful 'cause I've got a lot of help from different mentors along the ways in different ways and different ones over time. People helped me as I went through my education. People helped me as I entered the workplace and continue to help me, and I've been lucky to navigate the workplace because a lot of times--a lot of times you just don't know, and if you're first-generation and you're learning as you go, a lot of times you just need a little help with navigating. And, you know, we talked about before with sometimes just seeing somebody out there that's done it before that looks like you is helpful, but it's also--and it's also helpful for people to just give you a little bit of coaching along the way and tell you--maybe it's just a little nugget of information, maybe it's just a little bit of support, but all of those things kind of add up to a lot. So I would just say--when you ask me some of the different things, I'll just share a couple. First, I do think you need to be willing to work hard and also be willing to adapt to new things when you're going through experiences new. So if you're first-generation, things are new, and you just have to adapt and be flexible, and it's hard to be at first, so you just need to try to do your best to be the best you can, and then learn fast in terms of school, work, whatever. And then, as I mentioned, just get help along the way and really ask for help. And then second, I think you have to be tenacious, and maybe sometimes even a bit stubborn, and not let things get in the way, 'cause there's times when maybe you get frustrated or discouraged, but one thing I learned from my parents was not to give up, and I think it's a strength of our culture and just the immigrant culture in general.Zach: Man, I love that, and I--you know, it's interesting, because, you know, you're talking about immigrant culture, and you keep alluding to your family--and I love that, Jorge. That's so dope. You know, Living Corporate really is a space for black and brown professionals in the workplace, but transparently--I'm just keeping it a buck with you, right? Like, we have had some challenges in engaging minorities that are not a member explicitly of the African diaspora, right? So, like, what advice would you have for how black and Latinx professionals can be better allies and supporters for one another in the workplace? I mean, is there any--one, of course, any insights you have directed to that, but then have you had any experiences within your ERG on how you work with other ERGs at Accenture and how y'all practice community or allyship there?Jorge: Yeah. I mean, I think I would just begin by saying a lot of people of color--people of color share some experiences. Not all experiences, but a lot of experiences. I think we all would agree that we need a diverse world where everyone participates and feels included, but I think we all know that that's not always the world we live in. And it's hard to feel successful when you feel excluded. So I do think that while different groups are different in their own way, many of the experiences are similar, and there's a lot to learn from each other, and we all need to help each other. I would say in my life I've learned, and maybe had to learn, that everyone is different in their own way, but when you're a kid--you know, when I think back on it, on my childhood, when you're a kid you just want to fit in and not be different, and that follows you in different ways throughout your life, but I would also say that over time you grow and you learn, and I've learned that what makes you different is really what makes you special. But even today, I mean, if I'm being honest, if I'm being real with you, at times I find myself in situations where I look and sometimes feel different from everyone else, and when I do I remind myself that everyone, regardless of who you are, where you come from or what you look like, sometimes feels isolated, excluded, removed, alone, and it's simply a shared human experience. But it feels very--very personal. So in those moments I need to get past it, and so we all need constant reminders and maybe some help to remember, particularly if you're a person of color. So, you know, at Accenture I'm fortunate to work at a place, at a company, that's a leader in the market around inclusion and diversity, and we spend a lot of time collaborating across the African-American and the Hispanic-American ERGs so that everyone can learn from each other. We have summits together, and I like to think we share pretty well and help each other.Zach: [Flex bomb sfx] Just a light Flex bomb. Nothing too crazy. I love that. You're absolutely right, right? Like, when you--and the reason why I ask is because I think it's easy for us, in our differences, to sometimes, like, huddle up, and then in those huddles we then create, like, factions, and we kind of miss the point, right? Like, ultimately, all of us--while, yes, the experiences are not uniform by any means, we have a lot of shared experiences, and it's in those experiences that really should create some empathy that we have for one another. And I--you know, and I think that's really, really powerful. So you're passionate about Latinx representation within STEM, and you've alluded to some of that at the beginning when you talked about yourself a bit. What fuels your passion in this space?Jorge: Yeah. I mean, I'll just--I reflect on my life and, you know, unfortunately, many times in my life I've been one of the few or maybe the only Latino in many work, school, and professional situations, and I'm encouraged because over time I like to think it's gotten better, and now when I look at the people we're recruiting into Accenture, there's more people that look like me, and there's more people that come from diverse backgrounds. But it's not enough, you know? We're not there yet. And rest assured we'll continue to push for better representation, more diversity, more equality, et cetera, and it's important because we know when it comes to STEM that STEM jobs are one of the fastest-growing segments with a lot of opportunity, and STEM businesses are also influencing our society, but when you open up a business or tech magazine you still see very few Latinos, and as I've said, for us to grow and solve our world's problems, we need everyone to be included. So yeah, I think it's really important. I think STEM's really important, and for me, having a STEM education has helped me in many ways and I think opened the door to many of the opportunities that I have. So I want that for my community and for our extended communities.Zach: I love that, and if you could give three points of advice to Latinx professionals--just three big ones, 'cause I know you have a ton of experiences and insight and just points of success and things that you've done, but if you could boil all of that into, like, three nuggets, what would they be?Jorge: I'll give you three that come to mind, and I think these would probably change if you ask me tomorrow, or they may be nuanced or different a little bit, but I just think--the first one I would say is something I try to remind myself, and that's "just think bigger." I think we all limit ourselves. We limit ourselves in, you know, our day-to-day lives. We limit ourselves in our long-term goals, and I think we all just need to remember to think bigger. You can do more than you think you can. I think--I shared earlier one of the big things that I've learned and live by is just to be tough and keep going. Sometimes just being stubborn and having a goal and just keep pushing for it is the important thing. Just be tenacious. And then finally I would just say remember to give back as you advance your life, as you advance your career. I think we all have a responsibility to help others and to give back in whatever way you can. Those are three that come to mind for me.Zach: I love it. Thank you so much, and those are really powerful, so I appreciate that. And of course this has been incredible, and I just want to thank you again for taking the time and speaking with us today. Before we let you go, do you have any parting words or shout-outs?Jorge: No. I mean, I agree. It's been an incredible experience. I appreciate it. I thank you for having me. It's been really a pleasure to spend time with you today, Zach, and I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you.Zach: Hey, man, thank you. The pleasure is all mine, and we definitely consider you a friend of the show and would be honored to have you back.Jorge: Thank you.Zach: All right, peace.

A warehouse disaster is a large concern for the bourbon industry, but some people in the community make jokes and laugh at the situation. Should this be considered normal? Heaven Hill phased out their 6 Year Bottled in Bond product that was a true bargain brand to many bourbon consumers and launched a very similar product with a 3X price increase. Was this a good move by Heaven Hill? Are they competing in a high price bracket? Did they just cannibalize their own products? Is this the first #KentuckySnub? We tackle all this and more on Bourbon Community Roundtable #34. Show Partners: Every batch Barrell Craft Spirits produces has a distinct flavor profile. They take pride in blending and preserving spirits for the people who enjoy them the most, you. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Check out Bourbon on the Banks in Frankfort, KY on August 24th. Visit BourbonontheBanks.org. Aged & Ore is running a special promotion on their new Travel Decanter. Get yours today at PursuitTravelDecanter.com. Receive $25 off your first order at Rackhouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week Ryan talks about launching a bourbon brand. Look for a new segment called Whiskey Quickie launching next week. Brian Harra’s Sazerac Brands v. Peristyle: Bourbon History Matters as a Matter of Law - https://brianhaaracom.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/haara-bourbon-history-matters-as-a-matter-of-law-ky-jeanrl-2019.pdf Jim Beam Warehouse Fire Heaven Hill 7-Year Bottled-in-Bond Was it the right move to discontinue 6-Year BIB and relaunch with 7-Year at a higher price point? Do you think this product competes with the Woodford and Knob Creek price point? Is Heaven Hill competing against themselves? Why wouldn't Heaven Hill launch in Kentucky on day one? How do you best support retailers that elevate prices for hard to find bottles? 0:00 My wife was like, I was like remember I got a podcast. She said ugh that's so annoying. 0:07 Didn't you just do one of those round tables and I'm like that was last month. 0:23 Hey everybody it is Episode 209 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your host Kenny in the bourbon news cycle it moves quick. What's Trending one day is going to become pretty stale soon. And I'm sure many of you are like myself wanna bourbon warehouse collapses or when 45,000 barrels of bourbon go up in flames from a lightning strike at a gym be warehouse. We probably get a lot of messages in our inbox about it. And I kind of want to focus on this and say, where are we at today on the current situation. So on july fourth, the Woodford County Fire Department waited to extinguish the fire for a few days because as they said, there is less environmental 1:00 impact to allowing the ethanol just letting it continue to burn. Beam Suntory put out a press release saying that the barrels in the warehouse contain relatively young whiskey from the Jim Beam Asheville in the US, it will not impact the availability of the product to its customers. And they are going to be working with local state and federal agencies to conduct response operations. And now beyond just the whiskey, Jim Beam is looking at a $50 million loss. That would be the bourbon loss at around 45 million, with an estimated additional 5 million in the damages to the warehouses and the cleanup process. And that cleanup is going to be in response to a mass amount of bourbon that has entered the Ohio River after traveling more than 20 miles down the Kentucky River. And the Kentucky's division of Fish and Wildlife is already characterizing this bill as a severe fish kill. The officials are still continuing to assess the damage to the aquatic life. In a Facebook post on Monday, the Kentucky Energy and Environment cabinets 2:00 said that the department Fish and Wildlife Resources is on the river again, and they are continuing to assess the fish count killed and the results are continue to penned. They are also going to see dead and dying fish. People are using the Kentucky River in the area and they're going to start seeing and smelling the dead fish as well. Robert Francis, the manager of the emergency response team said that the bacteria in the water is going after the food source, which is the sugar and the alcohol so it ends up depleting the oxygen, the fish start to become distress and they eventually die. According to officials, the dead fish will decompose naturally with no harm to the river, so there's no plan to remove them, being Suntory is likely going to be handed a large fine once this comes to a close. If you've taken a drive in Bardstown, or Shively, Kentucky or really anywhere near a distillery or aging warehouses, you'll notice this sort of black fungus or film that grows on the side of rock houses and even find itself attached to road signs and surround 3:00 Holmes in 2007 when University of Toronto my colleges James Scott published an academic paper about the fungus, it pinned it on the whiskey industry. Dr. Scott discovered that this fungus which is he named but don't Yeah, after the man who first studied it in 1872 Anton but don't feeds on the ethanol vapor released by liquor as it ages. Since ethanol is denser than air, the evaporated Angel's share doesn't float up into the sky after all, but rather into the surrounding communities. In when it is airborne. Ethanol meets the slightest bit of moisture. It's going to be common because distilleries and towns are usually near those water sources. You get whiskey fungus all over the place. You can read more about this fungus and how it's plaguing neighboring towns from an article on but by Vice calm, which can be found in our show notes. This podcast, it's always been about education and our focus is how do we bring the biggest personalities behind bourbon to the forefront and get 4:00 listeners a chance to experience the hear directly from them. We never intended this podcast to be about Reiner. I am really what we think. And that's why we never did bourbon or whiskey reviews as a part of our format. However, over the years, people are continually asking us what we think of a particular bourbon. So we wanted to figure out a way to do just that without impacting our pretty much our schedule routine here. So next week, we are launching a new content stream that will be available through your current podcast subscription you're listening to right now, as well as YouTube and we're calling it whiskey quickie. as we did with the podcast. We researched the landscape of bourbon reviews on the Internet to see which format will be best for us, YouTube, it's a large segment and the reviews we watch went anywhere from five minutes upwards to almost an hour long. So we're setting off to make whiskey quickie unlike anything out there today. It's a whiskey review with no cutting and no editing and it will be 5:00 Done with a 62nd countdown timer. Sure it may sound rushed. But at first, these reviews are going to give you something else to listen to on Tuesdays while you wait for the usual Thursday podcast release. We're very excited to launch whiskey quickie. And the first episode will premiere on July 16. You can catch whiskey quickie right here on your existing podcast subscription. Or you can head over to YouTube and watch the video version. All right, I think I've talked enough. So let's get on with the bourbon Community Roundtable where we discuss the cultural implications of the Jim Beam fire as well as heaven hills seven year bottled in bond release. But before that, let's hear Joe from barrel bourbon. And then we've got a substitute for above the char with Ryan Cecil. 5:47 Hi, this is Joe Beatrice from barrell craft spirits. Every batch we produce has a distinct flavor profile. We take pride in blending and preserving spirits for the people who enjoy them the most, you. use our store locator to find a retail or a bar near you at barrellbourbon.com 6:02 I'm Ryan Cecil. Yep, that that third show loop. Fred's out of town and Portugal doing something really cool. So you have me this week, what I want to talk to you about is being in the whiskey business, and all the middlemen, and all the hands that are in your pocket. So when Kenny and I started a brand pursuit series, I had no idea how many hands and middlemen would be in our pockets, anywhere from ABC people, to the distributors, to the liquor store owners, to the lawyers, to the barrel brokers, to the label people to the cork people, to the glass people to every people in the world that gets their hand in our pocket, so we can bring someone some bourbon. But, you know, it's kind of frustrating. But then you think about it. And when I was on the phone with a distributor, his kids got in the car. And I was like, well wait a minute. This guy's a family has to pay for. Well, he deserves that. And then you start to 7:00 Thinking about the ABC person that's following your paperwork. And you're like, well, they have a family. I guess they deserve it too. And then you think about the liquor store, and the landlord, and all the people who just make everything happen. And then I'm like, Well, I guess they do deserve it. And so while it is very frustrating, and very 7:20 just greedy of me, selfishly, because I am a consumer, and I proprietor and creator of product that I want to bring the best possible product to my consumers at the best cost. But then, you know, there's a lot of people that were supporting along the way, and it kind of gives me good perspective about why things are the final price they are as they sit on the bar, and that's this week's above the char. Hope I didn't blow it. And we'll see you next time. 7:54 Welcome back to another episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon Kenny and I 8:00 Ryan here tonight on deep bourbon Community Roundtable number 34. This is where we talk about all the recent news, things have been happening inside the bourbon world and tonight is going to be it's gonna be light on topics, but it's going to be very, very heavy topic. So I'm kind of really excited to talk about this one. But before we jump into it, Ryan, what's been what's been new in your world recently? sweating a lot. It's hotter than hell, the humidity. Like, I think it's like our 12th or 13th day in a row 90 degrees, and it's like, Oh, God, but now it's, uh, I'm excited for the night we actually each of us will probably have some room to talk like, I'm looking at the tiles in front of me and there's, you know, only 1234 you know, where there's normally like, 10. So we all have our chance to chime in. So I like it. Yeah, that's you and you know, you mentioned that humidity I look at is a good thing. Because I always like to think that I'm walking and I'm sweating. I'm losing weight, but maybe it's just not that maybe it really is just the humidity. there and then 9:00 You drink one of those stats and you're like, right back. 9:04 It's like I keep gaining weight but I've been actually sweating too much. That's I don't think that's how it's supposed to work. Yeah, just like working out or go into the sauna or the same thing. Yeah, and white but sweating out those demons. So exactly for sure. Alright, so as usual we're going to do is we're going to go around the horn. So I'm going to go start off my left are Cal Ripken of the bourbon Community Roundtable. Blake welcome back. Thank you. Thanks for having me. This is the what are we at 37th round table close. 34 is incredible. round tables. Yeah. So congratulations to everyone on that. Now always great to be here. I'm Blake from bourbon or you can find me on all the inter webs and social medias Bo you are Bo in our calm as well as seal box calm as well. For all your craft beer needs. That's s e l ba ch s Thanks for having me. Spirit shipped right to your 10:00 Door it's about as easy as you can get. Yeah. 10:03 There's, there's no waiting in lines. There's no car. No camping out, you just, you know flip, just go on your own and it's there. It's sometimes free too. So just 10:16 depending on the tear up 10:19 bad we messed things up. It made me show up free 10:22 billing system. 10:26 Nick, go ahead. Alright, I'm Nick from breaking bourbon, one of the three guys behind breaking bourbon breaking bourbon. com. Check us out Facebook, Twitter, Instagram at breaking bourbon. And, hey, glad Glad to be here. I'm kind of back and forth between myself and Jordan. And I think over the past weekend, we convince Eric to start joining in a little bit more too. So you'll see that the man behind the man I think a little bit more here this year. Oh secret 10:55 coming off the bench, like it. And so Nick one thing that I noticed in your back 11:00 Ground was, you all did a new roof pic recently that went through seal box yet a pretty funny yet a pretty funny sticker behind it. I also want you to kind of talk about that one. Yeah, so these are some of the pics here. It's actually still still waiting on my bottles but it's just a test sticker on there if you can see that. So we kind of wanted to play with the other end of the rift thing. So wrestlers mom, Striffler, you know, so Steve sticklers, everybody they can relate to that, interestingly, just had a 20 year reunion so that movie actually came out American Pie came out during the summer after graduation of high school and before college so needless to say it was a fun summer. But as soon as that kind of came up and and we started a band around the idea, I think it just stuck and so we went with so how many more riff ideas are there going to be out there? 11:56 I've had more inquiries about wrestlers, moms, people seeing the sticker inside 12:00 Hey, so how do I get one of those? Like, well, you got to be the number one Patreon supporter I guess so. 12:06 Drinking bourbon. 12:09 They are sold out though now to think right Blake they sold out today through the major supporters, but 12:17 it didn't take long. No, no, no. I've seen Ken Griffey Jr. I've seen Rick James. 12:25 Yeah. So so we got a few more riff puns, I think still available but riff a mania. Yeah, there's there's so many out there. There's a lot of good ones too. Alright. And so to our resident lawyer, Brian, how's it going? Hey, thanks. Thanks for having me again. Great to be here. This is Brian with sip and corn. You can find me on Twitter Instagram now finally and and Facebook at sipping corn and online at sipping corn calm or bourbon justice calm and again. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to this one. It's so before we dive into it, Brian did I see something it was posted by Brad at little bit earlier today. I guess 13:00 There was a paper or something that was published that that you had done recently that he finally said, at least he put it on his Facebook for me that's no bread Atlas. he's a he's a friend of the show he was on talking about four roses and barrel pics and stuff like that. But he said that he was quoted in one of your I don't want to say like dissertation. I don't know what you call it, but you know, whatever it is. Well, yeah, it's it's close to that. It's basically the scholarly journal side of of what lawyers do. And I had an article published in a Law Journal from University of Kentucky and I for the bourbon history and to make a point about how much bourbon enthusiast dive deep into these issues, quoted some of his articles from bourbon and banter. I've had a breaking breaking bourbon citation on there had bourbon truth on there. So I was trying to make a few points about how deep we all dies and how into the weeds we get and those definitely pretty 14:00 Did some of the best examples for it. 14:02 Alright, so Ryan may need to step up our game and just not like bullshit about stuff but put some facts out there 14:09 are optional. 14:12 I can understand why you leave us out. I wouldn't want to be cross check the reference, you know, for for my facts. I appreciate being on that Brian, that was the two year storage experiment. And that was definitely our longest dive in anything. How it was a great deep dive, you know, the oxidation effects. I mean, that was that was fantastic. Yeah, I tried to find a quote from the round table and I just couldn't find anything with factual support. 14:41 The only factual support was actually the stuff that you contributed to. 14:45 I don't want to cite myself. So I caught myself from the Harrison podcast, although I didn't have a plug for the book and the article, so I can't say I didn't quote myself, but 14:56 yeah, so I'll for anybody that's curious about what that is. I'll make sure I put it in 15:00 Show Notes the podcast so you can go and check that out at your own leisure because it is it is a long long thing to read. I scroll through like the first two pages and I was like am I almost done? Oh crap is like 18 more to go so I I'll put that out there if somebody else that wants to see it. Yeah, that's the insomnia cure it is maybe just just go to the to the parts where I quote the fellow bloggers and then be done. That's fine. Perfect. 15:26 So there you go, Kenny. 15:29 I don't know. Let's let's see how much I can drink tonight. We'll see you go to sleep later. 15:33 There you go. Yeah. So let's go ahead and let's move on to our first topic of conversation tonight. And this one is really focused around that was it was the big news last week. In this was the Jim Beam warehouse fire. It's estimated somewhere around like 45,000 barrels may have been lost in the gym be warehouse fire. And this is just down the road of castle and key in the Glens Creek distillery near Milledgeville, Kentucky. And if you put this into perspective 16:00 That's about half of the 92,000 barrels that were lost during the heaven Hill distillery fire of 96. And that's when seven Rick houses had actually burned to the ground. And at that time, that loss represented about 2% of the nation's bourbon supply at that time. And I think we can all kind of look at it and really say that this is a this is a big travesty, right? This is a tragedy for all that involved. There were people that were commenting and saying things like, Oh, it's only white label, who cares are saying, Oh, I have pre fire odd 114 and I'll go ahead and post it for sale. Or people were joking and saying as jack daniels starting the fire saying how Alcoholics Anonymous benefit from it. I mean, let's take a step back and think about it like, is this really like the current state of affairs of what we see? 17:00 In the bourbon community and what we should expect when something like this happens when there's millions and millions of dollars on the line for a very large organization, there are firefighters that are sitting there trying to contain the fire that are trying not to spread to people's homes in the area, and people are just just making  jokes at him. I mean, is this is this natural? Like, is this what we could expect from here on out? I think one thing to point out is that no one got injured or died or anything in it, which is the key thing, I think the mood could have been very different. If that was the case and that scene right up front that was the message that was out there. And I think because of that, you know that the tone was able to be different or you know, people may be felt they could, you know, be different with the tone as a result of that. And that's really probably the biggest thing is that you know, you have these what could be really pretty scary incidents happening that you know, fortunately we haven't had you know, anything really seriously happen anyone to get injured or 18:00 You're killed, you know, more more recently in some of these more major, highly publicized ones. So I think that plays into it in this case as well. Yeah, it's kind of been a blackout for bourbon warehouses the past two years. I mean, it's like how many more can like, you know, get some, some natural disaster or something collapse? It's like, it just kind of makes you realize that, like, how old this stuff is, and like, I don't know, that kind of needs, probably some intervention, maybe to kind of protect them more like not just like, Oh, it's been there. It's been built forever. It's all good, you know, so. Yeah, it's just it's just been happening too much lately, I think. And it's kind of serious because we all go and barrel pics and we're all in those things. And tons of tourists go in and out of them. I'm really just, 18:49 you know, it's just kind of scary. You know that all this has happened so much recently. So I think people need to take it more seriously than then than just, oh, it's a white label or it's 19:00 Don't drink the water that's going in, you know, they'll Fall River don't drink it. You know, it's it's definitely more serious than that. So it's something we need to the community needs take serious and you know, the the distilleries as well. 19:12 Yeah, I think that's there's there's a few comments in the chat saying, you know, is this a Rick house problem ovulate like is it is it the age it's catching up on these things? You know, the Barton side that most certainly could have been a problem because there was maybe lack of oversight in regards of maintenance or something like that. However, this this what happened to Jim Beam was a lightning strike. And from what I understand is that lightning poles are pretty ubiquitous anywhere. So they're, they're stationed around the properties and that's what's supposed to basically detract the lightning to go away from most of the warehouses. They're installed in a lot of places. However, you know, it's lightning. So by Reza lightning hopefully doesn't strike twice in the right spot or the single sure, but the the 20:00 warehouses are grandfathered. They don't have sufficient sprinkler systems like the new ones. If you have a if you're Rick is so many barrels, you're not required to have them. It's like, okay, you know, the these are like serious things that, you know that, you know, people can get hurt and I think they need to take it seriously. That's just not some warehouse out there. 20:21 I don't know. Yeah, this this used to happen a lot more historically. I mean, there were five I don't know about the collapses, but there were definitely fires. And there were all kinds of injuries and in warehouses in it distilleries generally. So I think we're probably looking at it in the context of the big bourbon boom lately, so we're all more people are paying attention to it. I mean, if this happened 10 years ago, probably barely be a blip. But sure fires happen. And I think what we might see is is a change to have the the ground built up around them to contain 21:00 The any spirits that get out because we've got a fish kill on the Kentucky River now i mean it's it's a real ecological problem when this happens so I expect to see some some of this grandfather and kind of get questioned and in some of these warehouses might need to be brought up to more current code yeah I think the you know the cynicism is kind of natural and in anything like this you know think just about anything serious that happens there's going to be somebody in a lot of us take this as a hobby so it's only natural to joke about it when you know in real life there's people whose livelihoods and all that kind of depend on it which you know you look at this and while beams a massive Corporation This is probably still a $40 million plus loss so that that is a big thing that should be taken serious. I know David from rare bird was saying I think it was on Twitter somewhere just like 22:00 This is just what happens with something like this. You're just going to have the people joking around about it. And it's unfortunate to an extent but at some point it's like, you know what else are we can't just sit here and mourn the loss of barrels as well you know, as long as nobody got hurt 22:16 I don't know the I'm not going to be posting a bunch of pre fire Jim Beam jokes, but at the same time, we didn't delete them from the bourbon or group either. I didn't feel like it was that offensive? I guess I 22:28 heard a whole lot more offensive stuff then then warehouse jokes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, for sure. I agree with that. And I just kind of took it took it in stride. It's going to happen. 22:41 Any kind of news is going to get turned into a meme these days. And that's not the bourbon world. That's that's anything you know, that very serious issues happen and somehow it becomes like, a funny picture with some words on it. 22:54 And sometimes you need comic relief for service, what kind of helping me to pass that or it doesn't 23:00 seem like it's been happening a lot. And maybe that's just because we're focusing on a lot more. Now, you know, it's, it's interesting to hear Brian say that this was very, was much more prevalent, you know, long time ago, you know, I guess maybe 30 4050 years ago 23:17 but you would think we'd have a little more safeguards in place to stop some of the stuff especially like the collapses you know, you think building codes and everything would and inspections would improve that kind of stuff, but lightning strike that's pretty you can't really avoid that unless you just have fire sprinkler systems and that kind of stuff. 23:39 Yeah, absolutely. And Blake you kind of reminded me something of like you know, you and you to to Ryan of saying like you have to make light of a certain situation, you know, and I don't know like when the the too soon thing really, you know, supposed to like play a part into this. But, you know, it reminds me of like one of my favorite comedians is Daniel Tosh. And he says like, nothing is off limits. 24:00 And it's kind of funny it's like I think about it now thinking back I was like yeah well maybe maybe when is that that boundary or that you know whenever Can you say something about it and and I guess in this light you look at it you say well at this point it is a financial loss there was nobody that was hurt there were people that put their lives on the line but it wasn't to the point where you know it's it's not like any of us had like a barrel in there that was like our thing and we're like running in there to go save it right it was it was just like it was a contained fire. They let it burn. I think I read a news article on who he is or something like that they were talking to one of the fire marshals and they're like yes is the best smelling fire we've ever been to you know it's like one of those things that even the fire marshals are kind of having a good time with it you know i but i think it might just be in in poor taste sometimes if it's like 30 minutes minute Yeah, yeah. Like hey, let's let I was gonna use upon us. Let's let the fire settle or dust settle. 25:01 Now my digit but you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, give it a little bit of time. Make sure everyone's Okay. And then it's like, okay, it's fine. Today's Blake, you're clear. I'm good. Okay, good. Good. 25:11 I mean, I've heard estimates says is like $270 million in losses. 25:16 That seems like a lot for 45,000 barrels. Well, I mean, you got think 5000 a barrel, you know, probably, I mean, it's cheap stuff that they're getting, like, probably 250 plus bottles out of I mean, and then you times about 40,000. So I don't know that's I was thinking replacement cost. Yeah, you gotta wonder what the 25:36 $250 a barrel, then they've got to rebuild the warehouse. 25:42 But, yeah, I could be way off in one opportunity costs too. So you're just it's just proud of you that they don't take. I guess they do have a min sure. But you know, it seems like okay, I could spend 500 grand on a warehouse to get sprinkler or whatever you know, correctly to help. Save maybe I don't know. 26:00 Maybe I'll just lay off all our Donald music or Donald Blanco. 26:05 It was tragic to me those this and people keep calling it the beam fire, which of course it is. But it's it's Old Crow. And I don't know when these I didn't pay attention when these were built. But this is a distillery built in the 18 seven days I think it was 1870 I think is when old crows built. I don't know if those date back that long. But if if ever we were going to have a revitalization of the Old Crow brand and if they were ever going to bring that distillery back as some kind of tour destination like they have that old Taylor for castle and key mean we're losing out on those opportunities and and that's, that's what bums me out the most since there wasn't any injuries about this. Brian, I think you bring up a good point too, because I know Fred, who couldn't be on tonight. He kind of made a mentioned to me in a text message and saying like, this is this is scary. 27:00 You know it was going was happening is like not just for the fire and everything he's like he's talking about the visitors like the people of bourbon and really what this can mean, saying that this should if if more of these things happen whether they're fires, whether warehouse collapses, any sort of distillery mishap that makes headlines, he said this could completely change any visitor experience you ever go to. It could completely change any barrel pic experience you ever go on. Like they could eventually get to the day where they're saying like no, like, we're not allowing anybody else in the warehouses, like we're getting a hard hat or anything like that, you know, I mean, Kenny and I experienced that for Barton pick 79 to pick and you know, there was lightning in the air and they're like, no way we're gonna do it inside and it's not as fun, you know, being in a little tasting room, but luckily the skies cleared and they let us go back in there. But yeah, it's your he's totally right. And it's for the right reasons, though. Sure, absolutely. is legitimately it's it's legitimate, but actually 28:00 I always think when I think of the sterile experience, I think of the heaven Hill downtown. I mean, it's, it's like Disney Land, and you don't get any sort of real experience there. And that's, I mean, that's could be what this turns into if the insurance companies won't insure the distilleries if they let people in, I mean, that's who's going to drive it. It's can you get coverage? Or can you get coverage that you can afford? And maybe you have to limit it to visitor centers and kind of the Disneyland look. Yeah. Right. There would be a detriment that would be a sad thing to see happen. Yep. But I would play this angle though to you know, I get sent a link in that from a lot of people are outside of bourbon who just know that I'm into bourbon and so they sent the link but from somebody's perspective, that's not really involved in bourbon. You know, they're so bombarded with bad things happening all the time. You know, do you look at something like this and not really think anything of it? You know, because you're not involved. No one was injured or hurt you 29:00 You see bad so much worse stuff than this happen on a daily basis in the news, depending on what you watch, you know, so in the big scheme of things, it the impact is really a lot more just, you know, the enthusiast and that specific kind of bourbon crowd or the potential impact is there, you know, in addition to the environmental stuff, you know, but again, that gets to kind of just all those bad things just cycling through the news on a daily basis. No, you're totally right. And and who knows if this might have been a you know, a smaller craft distillery who knows if you made headlines especially around the nation just because of the size and the impact it what it was I mean, you know, if I saw a quote from john little from smooth Ambler he put on Facebook and you know, he said that it's sad to see these kind of incidents like no matter the size of the company, and he says I often put myself in smooth anglers position and a tragedy like this would be completely devastating to his type of business. So it definitely is a scalar 30:00 too. Wow when it comes to it, so, yeah, they lose 45,000 barrels. They're done. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So I think at this point I think we can kind of move on we've we're all we're all kind of fired up. Is it too soon? 30:18 For a pre fire heaven Hill. Alright, so, so I won't do that. But yeah, now we're going to go into kind of the the next topic and this is the one that I think it's might have been a little bit old news by now but we're going to go ahead and kind of spark the situation back up because it's the roundtable and why not because this is gonna be a lot of the opinions of really what we see of what's happening inside of the the bourbon community and everything like that. So everybody kind of remembers about, oh gosh, what was it about a year and a half ago, and this was something that we had talked about in the roundtable plenty of times. Nick had talked about it, saying you know, every time I come down to Kentucky what I do, I grab a few bottles of 31:00 Heaven hills six year bottle and bond and I take it back home with me it's some of the best bourbon at $12 a you know 750 ml that you can get on the shelves. In a year and a half ago they had announced that there was going to be a I guess the retirement or the phasing out of this particular product. When that announcement happened shelves started clearing I mean gone and Kentucky here and there and everywhere. It ended up getting the point where I think now you can actually still get on the secondary market. It's somewhere around like $40 for 750. So you get scarcity. People hoard it people buy it up. This is what happens. And now since they did discontinue a beloved $12 six year product and they haven't Hill is now I don't want to say relaunching they are launching almost a similar product. It is their seven year heaven Hill, bottle and bond. So with this comes a few different things, you get an additional year. It's just 32:00 Bottom bond so it's still 100 proof however it comes with a 233% price increase about three times the price. So you're going from $12 so around 3999 MSRP and with this It also comes in its initial launch is also limited availability only available in like I think eight states across the US. So before we start diving into kind of like the business side how do we compare this other things in the market but look at I'm going to kind of pose it to you all and Ryan I'll I'll kind of ask you first. Was this the right move by Heaven hill? 32:37 You know, I love heaven Hill, but man, they bought a lot of things like the logic Craig 12 year age statement, like moving into the back label, then moving it to the side and then saying, No, it's not going away. And then it goes away, you know, and then this, it's like, I don't care what they do, just like see up for about it. Who cares? You know, like, I'm still gonna love you. But uh, I think 33:00 Yeah, they should have just been like, Hey guys, given the market, we have a great product. You know, there's stuff out there on the market. That's whitelist age. Not as good. You know, with a bigger price tag, we feel like this is what it's worth. And here you go, and I would have been like, yep, you're totally right. I totally agree with you. Give me my seven year for 40 bucks, but not still will do that because it's gonna be a great product but uh, yeah, it's just I don't know why they do that. I just don't understand but but I will say that I am wearing my heaven Hill hat tonight to make sure that I am showing support for the brand because I still love the brand. Yeah, of course. 33:37 And yeah, I mean, it is. I don't know I mean, I don't know if it's a dagger to the heart for a lot of bourbon consumers or bourbon lovers out there because you're wrong like this is on the shelves for a very, very long time around here and it's not like it was flying off. It was just, it was just a it was a great value for what it was. But before we do that, you know, dive into more of it. Blake kind of talk about your side. Do you think this was the right move by Heaven Hill to 34:00 to kind of get rid of it and relaunch it. Yeah, I think it was definitely the right move. Not from you know, my perspective as a consumer, but from a business standpoint, it was the best move they can make. You know, I can't imagine what the cost is on a, you know, six year old bourbon, but the margins probably weren't huge. They've basically learned through all these other things of, you know, moving the the 12 year to the back labeled and pulling it off completely then kind of redesigning the laser Craig barrel proof and, you know, they took away Elijah Craig 18 year and reintroduced it a couple years later at four times the price three times the price around there, they realize they can kind of do whatever they want. And yes, a small group of us will kind of cry foul but overall the market still embraces it and still buys it and, you know, it's just kind of keep doing what they want to do. 35:00 And they know that the that the product was undervalued. So they said, Okay, let's put it out at a higher price people will still buy in, it's still a pretty good deal. You know, I have a different perspective on it because I'm not in Kentucky. So it's not something I could regularly get. 35:17 So it's not like I'm missing out on anything. It's in my mind. I'm, it's a plus to me, because I'll actually now have a 30 to $40 What's the retail 4040 $40 bottom, but in that I'm just going to go by Elijah Craig, which is, you know, slightly proof down but probably a little bit older. 35:39 So, I mean, from a business standpoint, I think that's ultimately the right move. And we have given heaven Hill more than enough reason to believe that the market will not care and they'll still go buy it. So yeah, well, 35:54 yeah, 90% of market that probably didn't even know that it was like Kentucky, only six year product. 36:00 999 or whatever so you know, who gives a shit about these Barkin few that now that could turn on them really quickly if things start to get a little bit tighter and they need, you know the enthusiast market again, but I still think we're a little ways out on that happening. Yeah, so I don't know. I mean, what I've loved to see another great value bourbon that's still really underpriced. Yes, of course, I think we'd all want to see that. But at the end of the day, it's a business and yeah, I'm guessing they made the right business move. I just have one more point before we move on Kenny to the next person. I think the biggest travesty here is that like you said, you'll go by logic Craig for whatever or Henry McKenna whatever Well, they're going up to so that's just the nature of the progression that's happening here and so it's just gonna slowly move on. brands. You know, you look at it heaven hills had bought 37:00 far the most value based Bourbons for the longest time you know you think of Henry mechanics in your you think of Evan Williams single barrel you think of Elijah Craig was 12 years for a light while even the ledger credit barrel proof in my mind is still a pretty good by depending on where you are. It's a great you know, j w Dan bottled in bond like that is a great bottle for $20. So, you know, while we want to kind of cast that first stone, it's kind of like there's still a lot of other great bourbon out there. 37:35 So that's why it's like hey, Cashin make your money go make build some more warehouses or something. 37:41 Yeah. So Nicole, can I ask you a question? Like, do you think the the idea with this was to try and compete with other brands in the market like the Woodford and the knob creaks that are around that $40 price range? You know, I think it's interesting thinking about before I answer 38:00 That question thing about the progression that it took, which was the undiscovered, nobody talked about it. It's in maybe dusty on the shelf for 12 bucks in Kentucky, and then it kind of got discovered. And that's when you started at people were outside of Kentucky coming in, like me, I was one of them. And I would buy a lot of it just because quite frankly, the price was really the draw it was the value relative to the price, it was good for the price. And it's not like I stockpiled it, that's what I would take to a party and I would leave the bottle there. And then I'd get texts from whoever's house it was those a party saying, Hey, I'm drinking this now. And I'd be like, fantastic. You know, it's only available in Kentucky enjoy it, you know, that kind of a thing. And then I think what happened was you started seeing more people clear the shelves because it kind of became obvious that maybe this wasn't going to go on forever, and it was such a good value. And so looking at the perspective from heaven Hill, you know, why sit there and let that happen. If the idea was it's kind of always available for people in Kentucky, and suddenly kind of not available. It looks like it's not going to be available. You're not really doing 39:00 Anyone any favor? So I agree, I think that was a smart move exactly how they went about doing it and why I think that's kind of the next question that you're asking Kenny is, you know, what is this product? What is it supposed to be? What's their goal with the product? I remember them talking about Elijah Craig, and saying, well, we could have kept a 12 year on and just raise the price. But they said, We don't want it. We want a product that's successful, we really want to keep the price about the same. How do we do that we want to build a brand and have this really always on shelves, we don't want it to be well, or 12. We want it to be go to the store and you can buy it, you know, that type of thing. So now the question is, is is this going to be their flagship? 39:37 Do they want this available? Always, you know, everybody, do they want you to comparing it to like, is that a Woodford or something like that? I think that's yet to be determined. You know, I think they had to do something to it, you know, changing the price a lot. They added a year to it. It's kind of like we can't just do the exact same thing. And then it looks a lot more I think what would be iconic or symbolic of where their branding and 40:00 Where everything is going, you know, where it does really come across as here's a representation of us. They push bottled in bond, I start to wonder if how much they push value versus we perceived value. It's kind of a curious point of mine is, where does that come from? Because it does step outside of that boundary. And I think it does step outside that boundary of everything's overwhelmingly high value. Now, you're asking the question, saying, well, this maybe isn't, you know, and you know, to that the price might be the same for the next 10 years. And they may know that to that you don't see a lot of these really creep up in price unless the retailers are doing a lot of times they'll keep them the same. So I think that's yet to be determined, where we're really going to see this and how it's going to be, you know, kind of viewed and consumed in the marketplace and where they want that, you know, the consumer today, Brian, I want to kind of let you kind of give your your opinion. I mean, do you think this is this is competing within those those different price points of the woods and they're not creeks that are out there? 40:58 Hey, it's Kenny here, and I want to tell you 41:00 About the Commonwealth premier bourbon tasting and awards festival. It will be happening on August 24. In Frankfort, Kentucky. It's called bourbon on the banks. You get to enjoy bourbon beer and wine from regional and national distilleries while you struggle with things along the scenic Kentucky River. There's also going to be food vendors from regional award winning chefs. Plus you get to meet the master distillers and brand ambassadors you've heard on the show, but the kicker is bourbon pursuit. We're going to be there in our very own booth as well. Your $65 ticket includes everything all food and beverage on Saturday. Plus, you can come on Friday for the free Bourbon Street on Broadway event. 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The folks at Rock house whiskey club heard that claim and had to visit the banks of Lake Michigan to check it out. It all began when New Holland brewing launched in 97. Their Dragon's milk beer is America's number one selling bourbon barrel aged out. In 2005. They applied their expertise from brewing and began distilling at beer barrel finished whiskey began production 2012 and rock house was the club is featuring it in their next box. The barrels come from Tennessee get build a dragon's milk beer twice the mature bourbon is finished and those very same barrel 43:00 Rackhouse whiskey club is whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories from craft distillers across the US. Along with two bottles of hard to find whiskey rack houses boxes are full of cool merchandise that they ship out every two months to members in over 40 states. Go to rack house whiskey club com to check it out and try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 43:28 Brian, I want to kind of let you kind of give your your opinion i mean do you think this is this is competing within those those different price points of the woods and the knob Creek center out there? Well $40 is the new $25 and everything that we used to be able to get just five to eight years ago now is going to be $40. So as consumers we just have to accept that. What really struck me the most about this is is a few days after this happened. I was at a continuing legal 44:00 seminar and the Katie a was had a presenter there. And she was and I'd heard this before but totally forgot it. She was saying that 60% of $1 for your spirits purchase in Kentucky goes to Texas. So you've got a you've got a $12 bottle and you've got just over $7 of that goes to some way shape or form to Texas. Heaven Hill can't can't make I mean, I'm sure they're doing fine. But hold on, hold on. You forget the retail who makes money off the retail who makes money in distributor? And then so you have what's left of the actual producer? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I mean, it's you can't you can't sell bourbon for 1199. You just can't. I always treated the the six year as sort of my, my, 44:50 my bar if you had a craft whiskey. That was that was however old and you couldn't be better than a 60 year heaven Hill bottle of 45:00 Bond wasn't going to be worth spending $60 on it when you can get it when I could get at least in Kentucky a $12 bottle of fantastic bourbon. So I as a consumer, I'm sad about it as looking at it from heaven hills perspective, it's a no brainer to Nick's point I totally agree this is so much better than if they had done the exact same product exact same bottle exact same label, cheap plastic white screw top and increase the price to $40 that they couldn't do that they had to do some premium make some premium changes to it. And and they've done that you know that with with the cork and the label and everything else. So it's people are going to buy it, it's it's going to be worth it, you know, air quotes worth it. But as a consumer, I'm sad about it, but it makes sense. I just don't understand why can't they just be honest, like I just don't get what's the advantage of 46:00 Like, let's pull it off the marquee and we'll pretend like we just hit it and we're not 46:07 there they forget about people forget about it. And then it's like, I want to 46:13 like go to bye bye present with your kid at Target and be like, okay, I'll go hide in the closet some Christmas. I mean, I just want to go on these border meetings and be like, Are you serious? Like, do you think we're that stupid? Like, like consumers? I stupid? I guess. It's my point that most of these distilleries just don't care about consumers. But uh, anyways, I don't care. I totally understand why they're doing it. Yes. $12 a bottle. I mean, we sell bourbon. We can't sell. I couldn't even sell it for $90 a bottle and make money so it's, I totally get it. Just don't be. Don't fool us. We're not idiots like it. Was that the case though? Or was it just you know, I guess looking at it. I'm not at all surprised even when it happened. I really kind of assumed this was coming. I was just not sure what it was going to be exactly. And all 47:00 Lot of cm, I'm surprised the prices as low as it is I kind of thought they were going to go more the old Fitz route and have more of a premium thing and kind of step it up that much. So because it is more of the every day price of what you're seeing now, like you said, the new 40s, the new 25, it actually had me a little excited of Hey, this is something hopefully, I can go by now and it's a little bit older, I assume it's going to taste a little bit different than what the six year was. And I'm not really sure. You know, with all these discussions, they knew exactly what the plan was going to be for that they would want to say anything until it was coming. You know, do you want to say it a year before it's ready, you know, because they went from six to seven, you know, or was it 47:43 you know, they just thought the time would be the key that they just thought Oh, after a year people were would forget that's it. I think they got mad as her Brooks won some awards that said, 47:53 you know, screw this was when we all appreciate a press release at this point that just says 48:00 Guys we're gonna make some more money so right 48:04 in your blindly buying anything on the shelf and anything with hundred dollar price tag your dumb uncle's definitely buy in so 48:15 y'all pay way too much attention to bourbon like just take a backseat on this one. It's okay. Yeah, I actually think there's a whole brand opportunity there Blake versus that brand. They just jokes about everything. It's called it and it's 48:29 Yeah. 48:31 That would be incredible though. I would be like, I don't know. I think it would be so awesome if they did that. But instead they gotta do this. You know, play behind the scenes. Ping Pong match. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're right. like nobody, nobody that pays attention to stuff whatever. Forget it, especially for a product that was iconic to I would say a lot of us but at least people that are well known or should I say really know the bourbon landscape very well, like they know about the product. They 49:00 They know where to find it and they know about it. Now the other side of this is perhaps it wasn't their favorite, right? It's a value budget bourbon like that's what they loved about it. It wasn't necessarily say like, Oh, this is this is my unicorn, right? It's not that's what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be that this is a budget bourbon. But Ryan you'd also mentioned the Ezra Brooks point of view, and I kinda want to look at the competing l side of the market because anybody that okay I mean, well, let's say like as a Brooks barrel proof is basically contract is still haven't helped, right? It's the same exact thing. And now so we're looking at the difference of a barrel proof products from heaven hill at the seven year age David, versus the heaven hell product bottle and bond less proof and the same price point. 49:50 Like, yeah, like, like what gives? So that's that's comes another point like, now who are they competing with? Are they competing against themselves? 49:59 Yeah, no. 50:00 There's no question there's a high value. So to with the Ezra I think that was recognized right away you know, so part of that is that value proposition you know just just just thinking about what you know he always comes into play when you when you think value and you know you get this weird dichotomy with smaller craft distillers where stuffs coming out for higher prices but then in some cases people like God's its craft it's not kind of recognized yet I'm unless you want to support them. It's in some cases it's not really not really there yet. You know, other cases you have, you know, somebody like new riff who's killing it, you know, with a four year and you know, bottled in bond, you know, so here you go is a four years a seven year you know, you look pricing, I mean, do you put them on the same platform for I'm going to compare this to that, or do you say, Well, no, there's a different comparison here because the distillery size and you know, those kinds of things. So that's the questions you always have to, you know, kind of look at and it's only it comes down to just how much you like it, how good it tastes, but it also comes down to 51:00 How they're speaking with you. And I think Ryan, you made a good point, you know, for the enthusiast side because maybe some other people, the general public doesn't care, but you never want to be lied to, and you never want to feel like the world was pulled over your eyes, which, unfortunately, with the Elijah Craig age statement, that was how everybody felt, you know, and so I think, you know, lesson learned, avoid doing that, like think proactively to speak to that group so that you don't you don't lose that, you know, that faith in that community that's behind the distillery. 51:30 Haven't got it. Sorry. Oh, sorry, Nick. What's up riff bottle and bond cost. $55 or no? The bottle the bottle? 51:39 What is it Blake 4040. Yeah, 44 year, Lori. And I think I think a great value. I think it's a great product. Yeah, I guess this caps the secondary price of the six year bottle and bond. Right. 40. Well, now it's the old label though. They changed it. So now it's 52:00 You know, like discovering your phones in a way, right? So you gotta buy on the shelf anymore. Yeah, I want to throw another one out. 52:10 There. Oh, go ahead run. Well, I'll say here you go heaven Hill. I know you're going to do this within the next year, when you write one to raise hundred McKenna's prices, and you change the packaging, and you change the cork, so that you can justify a $20 increase, just say, we are going to change the cork and the label and we're going to raise about 20 bucks because we think it's undervalued. And I will say, Amen, I will go buy it still. 52:33 I think that's a good Brian. It's it though. Like anyone who's paying attention is somebody who cares. anyone's not paying attention doesn't care. So you got to speak to that group. Yep. Yep. And that was Brian, you kind of teed up the next question right there is is we now see an aspect with inside of heaven hill that they're kind of cannibalizing themselves, where they have products that have higher age statements and higher 53:00 was a perceived value and sometimes even higher proof settling for less money then this product that they're putting out so you know, you look at the, the Henry McKenna bottle and bond as you mentioned, you got Evan Williams you got GTS brown you've got GW Dan, you have all of these different products and mind you that is less the less something's changed and I don't know recently but they're they're bourbon not we didn't match up with a regular bourbon mash bill is one bourbon Nashville, like, nothing's changed. So it's the same product that's going into all these just different aging warehouses, locations, so on and so forth. So do you all see themselves as kind of like cannibalizing and like making themselves like, like, they're, they're fighting against themselves in the market with their own products? 53:46 You know, in a way, maybe I think fewer people are going to tie those things together. Then, you know, when you think of the mass market, I'm not sure a lot of people walk in and realize they're coming from the same place at the store. So 54:00 It's still a pretty small percentage that even acknowledges that. It's like, why do you have a CVS on, you know, two blocks away from each other. And it said, well, you're more likely to stop in at the CVS or Walgreens, if it's, you know, right next to you, as opposed to two miles away, it's still not that big of a deal. So if you go into a store, and it's like, all right, what's on the shelf, if you know they only had one product, you're less likely to grab that bottle when there's 100 products on the shelf. So they put eight to 10 out there, you're more likely to grab it. So I think I think the answer to your question Kenny, when I was out at a bourbon event at a different city, and I met some people that just started drinking bourbon six months ago they had no ideal that Eagle rare Buffalo Trace and all you know under that same Nashville were the same exact Nashville and they're like what you're kidding me. Like it's the same Nashville they have no idea that like, all these brands are the same magical, just different prices, different age, whatever. So they just 55:00 Like the modern the everyday consumer has no idea and you pointed them to the bourbon or Nashville breakdowns 55:10 cheat sheet Thank you. You go we give away posters that shit now. 55:16 Thanks for coming here's your match. Oh, yeah, but but I do want to give a shout out to Dave overboard one on one because I know he's he's he's been talking a lot in the chat here is always saying like wild turkey one to one it's still their prices and change so he could always go there. I saw $10 Yeah, comment on that $10 Right, exactly. So he's trying to put his deck in the ground and hoping with bourbon a choice. Yeah. Well, he's also hope with the Campari folks don't start taking a note out of heaven hills playbook here. But then the also kind of thing is, you know, when we look at this, and we look at it from the enthusiast point of view, you know, we are the bourbon enthusiasts. This is if you're listening to this podcast, who are a bourbon enthusiast, it's there's no way getting around it right. You are You are 56:00 The few people that really care, maybe not as much as us, but you care a lot, you care a lot of a niche of a niche. Exactly. And so you kind of look at it and you're like, well, if heaven Hill really wants to make money off the enthusiasm really care about them. This is what David at rubber one one says, maybe should sell single barrels at more than 90 more than 94 proof. Right? Do something more than than just what you can do it Eliza Craig and he's, I think he might be onto something. 56:26 Yes, they were in those single barrel pics, but but selling them at 94 proof. It's, it's a travesty, really. But you know. And so the last kind of thing I want to hit on with this as it's kind of running out this topic here is we have noticed inside of the press release this is this is almost like unheard of to be able to have a bourbon that's being launched, coming from a prestigious distillery inside of Kentucky and it says it's available in eight states and you start looking down and you start looking and there's one or there's there's one abbreviation you don't see. That's k 57:00 You do not see ky as one of the first states that are out there. Now, Ryan and I have a kind of a good inkling of why this might be. And I'll kind of let Ryan take it here. So Ryan, kind of kind of give your your thought and your process of why wouldn't you go and make Kentucky and available market on day one? 57:20 Because I know they'll sell it no matter what, whenever it gets here. So I gotta go spread to the masses and 57:28 get the new consumers, which I understand, you know, it's totally cool. But it's like Fred always talks about you can't forget the people that brought you to the dance. You know, it's like, Yeah, I don't know. I it's, it's frustrating, but, you know, that's totally Wow. But it's just great to see you know, okay, why not get something that the rest of us 57:54 in New York is on that list. So that means you three to six months after it's released. We'll see you next 58:00 Yeah. 58:02 It's like, you know, Florida all the fun releases are going to come after everyone's Instagram has been flooded with with pictures of these new releases non stop button. Yeah, I'm excited. Yeah, I mean, right now we were talking about this because he recently took a trip and it's kind of like, Kentucky is very, very small in the picture things. You know, we Yeah, yeah, I mean, saying that, you know, yes, there's there's 4 million plus barrels of whiskey aging and Kentucky. That's more than the population of Kentucky. Guess what? That's a that's about half the size of Dallas. Yeah, it's like there then you got these like Houston and LA and New York that are, you know, just even bigger. It's like, yeah, yeah. So even even when you look at per capita buying, which I'm sure is higher here, you're still not touching, not even close to the bigger markets. Yeah, because I think California and Texas obviously because every 59:00 The biggest population but, you know, I mean, they're just crushing Kentucky and far as you know, consuming power and booze. 59:09 Trying to change one bottle at a time. You know, that's very interesting, just kind of going back to these brands are realizing they don't need the enthusiast nearly as much as kind of as the initially Yeah, as we hope. You know what starts happening when this stuff stops hitting Kentucky as much because overall, Kentucky still gets the lion's share of a lot of the allocated bourbon. And to my knowledge, this is the first one that kind of gave the Kentucky snub. So 59:40 it'll be interesting to see what happens, you know if if that's kind of hurts the brand overall, or they just find a new market and never looked back. So it'll be interesting. 59:52 No, I think you're totally right. I think this is going to be it could be one of those pivotal moves we start seeing in regards to the market and how things 1:00:00 Shifting when somebody is going to launch a product where they're going to launch it and they're going to look at the target markets they're going to look at where do where do the most bourbon consumers live. Now granted Kentucky is there but Kentucky is also a large state Kentucky isn't the size of Houston right like Houston's a pretty big populace actually it's a much bigger populace than Kentucky is a state right? So yeah, that might be the that might be the the idea of like maybe that's where you go like that's where the money is. And not only that is there's this is this is not a game of you know, trying to target a particular kind of consumer like this is a game of people with disposable income that are buying Kentucky's a poor state. I mean, they're one of the you know, probably top 10 poorest states in the if not even higher than in the in the country. So I mean, there's not a lot of people with disposable incomes that can just drop money on expensive Barb's all the time, but we spend it on rep tickets and bourbon and that 1:01:00 Sorry. 1:01:03 But what was that the thinking though? Or? I mean, does something play into? I didn't because it is. I mean, it is really odd that it was a Kentucky only release. And and kind of coming back, you know, you think like that's the narrative that it was Kentucky only and we're going to start in Kentucky. So you know, was it because they wanted more momentum in other states first or, you know, was there a concern that it was going to be received or perceived really negatively? Because, you know, you took it away and then and then brought it back at at the price that's coming back at you know, you gotta wonder if there's more to it, then just, this is what's going to give them most momentum. As much as you know, was there a PR play that got banter back and forth about where do we start here? Because it seems like it's going to be everywhere. And it seems like wherever it is, it's new. It's talked about, it's probably going to do pretty well. 1:01:54 So it is really odd that it didn't start in Kentucky. I gotta admit that despite thinking it's a smart move 1:02:00 Not being in Kentucky is really, it makes me wonder how they came to that conclusion. Well, I mean, it could be like, Oh, well, it's been in your state for the past. How many years? Have 1:02:12 you been here about a year and a half ago? Like, let's go somewhere else? You know, it could be that you didn't care until we said we were going to pull it and then then it got popular. Yep. 1:02:24 Absolutely. So let's go ahead and let's let's kind of finish this one on a on a fun little touchy subject too, because why not? Right. So this was a question that kind of came in over Twitter and it was kind of in regards of secondary market pricing and retailers and how do you justify buying stuff and so Kurt Bella Lawsky sa

Imagine you are taking a walk through your neighborhood. It's a unusually breezy, but warm summer evening and you happen to run into a neighbor. You stop to chat for a bit and during the discussion you start talking about finances.  You're neighbor tells you, "Yes John, I jut hit a big milestone in my life. I've paid off my mortgage, student loans and all of my credit card debt.  The only thing I owe now is just a $2,000 car note and I I'll be scot free" By this time next month, I will be debt-free and ready to build up my savings and nest egg even more.  You wouldn’t say "Jeez. I'm sorry to hear that. These must be tough times. What happened? Is there anything I can do for you? Thankfully, things are going great on my end. I owe $350,000 on my mortgage, added another $10,000 in credit card debt and my student loans, well, I'm thinking about going back to school for another $50,000. Things just couldn't be better!" but that's what Keynesian economist want you to believe.  On today's episode I you'll learn: My top 3 reasons for why American's have now incurred over $1T in credit card debt 3 ways to pay-off credit card debt faster   Video Podcast:https://youtu.be/MD_hhmbYdxk Follow mean twitter: @HectorJ_Mises Show notes:  http://www.NewClassRising.com/148    

In this episode, I introduce the Ankeny Podcast and what I hope to do with the episode. I highlight a number of local Ankeny Businesses, People, and Events. Here are some links from this week's episode  https://ankeny18th.extremebodyshaping.com/ http://cafe-diem.com/ https://www.firefliesaglow.com/ https://www.iowachiroclinic.com/ https://www.weestees.com/ http://www.firetrucker.com/ Full Transcript: Hi, welcome to the Ankeny Podcast I'm Tony Guerra and Ankeny nonfiction author professor and triplet dad I'm bringing you the people places and events in Ankeny Iowa and you can find past episodes and links at Ankeny podcast.com welcome to the show Who am I I'm Tony I came here from Washington DC in Baltimore I met my wife who's from Ankeny and we lived in Iowa City for a year but I've lived in Ankeny for almost 10 years now and my daughters are about to turn seven so they're at that age that they can self entertain for a bit give me some time to do the podcast and and this summer I'm gonna be launching the Ankeny podcast which highlights the businesses people in places in Ankeny Iowa I've been podcasting for two years but I've started my own podcast last December that podcast the pharmacy leaders podcast it's about 15 to 25 thousand downloads a month and it's super niche it's just really for pharmacists and people interested in pharmacy but I found that I wasn't really talking to the people that were in my own town and that was a little bit disconcerting to me so I thought boy that'd be really cool to just start another podcast and but I know how to do it so I'm gonna start talking to the people in my neighborhood that really helped me out so I'll probably broadcast from cafe X that's right next to the trail point aquatic and Wellness Center it's about 50 yards from my office where I teach um I teach chemistry and pharmacology down d-mac in Ankeny and I also teach a chemistry and Newton in the fall in the spring but it was barrels last November where I kind of signed up again and and just kinda got back into it and the Farrell's though people that we know but we go back we're like this is where you meet your neighbors you're like oh my gosh where do you live you live right down the street and you don't realize that your neighbors because you know we're so busy and so much often we come home and we just go right in our garage so it just kind of dawned on me that maybe I think they'll start talking to other people and ice talked to Steph Wilson who's the owner of the Farrell's ankeny north and Farrell's Ankeny South and if you don't know Farrell's if you've ever seen people running down 18th Street between the come-and-go and northeast Elementary those are the members doing their 10 weeks and the first day or just before the first day then at five weeks into ten weeks you do a mile run and you'd be amazed the improvement is exponential but I'll be talking to Stephanie Wilson in a future episode who owns that and then dr. Aaron dr. Sean and dr. Vicky at the Iowa chiropractic clinic on 1st Street you know I want to thank them they keep me running I just I ran the Nashville half a month ago and then the Drake half last week but just kind of keeping me from getting too far off so that I can keep running anyone who's a runner knows that it's not if you're gonna get injured you do but certainly minimize it by going to those guys and then I met someone from ways teas who I was like oh my gosh so we need a Mart market to market shirts for our run coming up here in a couple weeks actually so eight of us from d-mac professors and people are working at rail point come together to run 75 miles from way I can't remember the starting point that's bad I've been there two times but we come down to downtown Des Moines but I really appreciate we's tees for helping us out there and it was really kind of serendipitous I I talked to Stephanie Wilson about coming on the show from Farrell's and then she's like oh you should come to this business group just talk to them for a little bit about podcasting and then I was like oh my gosh well we need t-shirts and we just need them and you know I think it was like two or three weeks and we need custom t-shirts for our team so it's just kind of cool that that connection happened but if you know somebody that details cars that's where I need some help both of our cars well I'll just leave it at we have three six year olds our cars could use some work but the best way to actually get in touch with me is on facebook at tony farm d1t oh and yph ARMD one or you can email me at a a gue RRA at DMACC DM acc edu I'll get an Ankeny podcast email address soon enough but those are good places to get in touch with me if you know somebody that is an entrepreneur that would like to come on the show I'd love to talk to them there's no cost to come on the show my revenue comes from the books I'm an author and I have seven books on Amazon so I usually have a little commercial about my pharmacology books or chemistry books whatever it is and that's how I support the show so I I'll just bring a microphone and laptop down I mean I'm in Northeast Ankeny so it's never more than a 10-minute drive to wherever you're at in terms of events this was what really prompted me to start the show because we went to the Ankeny 's authors fair and the only reason I seen that it was gonna happen was because I happened to go to Kuykendall and return a book and then I saw oh wow that's on Saturday it's two days away at the Pinnacle Club at Otter Creek and I my wife I think had to work that Saturday so I took my daughters down there and it was really cool because you'll hear our three six year olds coming in and there and I wasn't sure you know what authors were gonna have books we had but there were a number of kids that were I wanna say 12 and 14 two of them and my daughter's engaged with them bought books from them and they were just kind of really inspired to see that these authors were so young so Zoe Olsen I think she's 12 year old and she wrote Harry and Larry tale of two Canaries and puppy days and then Elijah Olsen the stick book family the stick family book he's 14 and we have those books in our house so but it's just cool that they're on Amazon too and and that you can buy the books and the thing about the podcast is that my pharmacy leaders podcast actually goes to a hundred countries or a hundred countries are listening to it so it's I think it's called glocal where you act globally but work locally so I've talked to a very successful business owner and I said wow you know but it must be really tough to get your items to these other countries and things like that and he's like no the the u.s. absolutely wants you sending things out it's getting things in that's tough so in terms of exporting you know maybe you think your market is here but you know for those for that group of young authors your reach could be global I mean it's there's kids everywhere in the world and the same thing with a number of the businesses in Ankeny while you know you serve us as that are in Ankeny that really the the opportunities are way out there I'm one of the best-selling books in the UK and also in Australia especially Australia because they're an island and they don't really get it's really expensive to get product there so a lot of times this print on demand that we have now makes it a lot easier to get items to them so again opportunities I think around the world in terms of business so just really really cool the the podcast is just a really really cool medium to kind of have it's kind of a cross between radio and talk show and then in terms of events I got to go to Drake Relays last night saw Ankeny Centennial Ankeny high compete in the four by one I didn't get to see too much else after that but again you know I'm so busy with the kids I kind of want to do this show just so I know when things are happening so you know we'll talk about Summerfest certainly when that's coming up in July I know fire trucker has a bunch of rides a lot of what I'll talk about probably is gonna have to do with riding and running as well and then of course the Ankeny optimist club has their Ankeny 5k that Sunday July 15th Prairie Ridge Aquatic Center so I want to make sure that I don't miss those events but also that I'm again connecting with people that are going to be at those events so this is just a little bit of an introduction what I'm hoping to do with the Ankeny podcast again please get in touch with me if you want to be on the show or if you have any comments or events that are coming up please let me know and I'll put it on there we're gonna start with at least a weekly podcast I usually probably gonna come out on Friday or the weekend just because that's usually when we kind of figuring out what we want to do and then we'll kind of go from there support for this episode comes from the audio book memorizing pharmacology a relaxed approach with over 9,000 sales in the United States United Kingdom and Australia it's the go-to resource to ease the Pharmacology challenge available on audible iTunes and amazon.com in print ebook and audiobook

In this episode Geno rambles about- Wait, should I be saying Geno or I? I'll say Geno. That sounds more professional. I think. Anyway, Geno talks about why he hates Air Conditioners! Enjoy!