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Today on What's Right: Do you let your kids go unsupervised? House GOP censures Adam Schiff and the left hyperventilates MSNBC thinks Republicans can't name a single crime Hunter Biden committed DeSantis masterfully reframes the culture war Is support for gay marriage declining?! Thanks for tuning into today's episode of What's Right! If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the show on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, and make sure you leave us a 5-star review. Have personal injury questions? Visit ⁠⁠Sam & Ash Injury Law⁠⁠ to get free answers 24/7. Connect with us on our socials: TWITTER Sam ⁠⁠@WhatsRightSam⁠⁠ What's Right Show ⁠⁠@WhatsRightShow⁠⁠ FACEBOOK What's Right Show ⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/WhatsRightShow/⁠⁠ INSTAGRAM What's Right Show ⁠⁠@WhatsRightShow⁠⁠ To request a transcript of this episode, email ⁠⁠marketing@samandashlaw.com⁠⁠.

Episode 285: Stop Focusing On What's Wrong, And Start Focusing On What's Right Do you do this? Someone gives you a complement and you deflect, saying: yes I did do that well, but look at this other thing I did. You shrug off the good things you do and focus all the time on what … Episode 285: Stop Focusing On What's Wrong, And Start Focusing On What's Right Read More » The post Episode 285: Stop Focusing On What's Wrong, And Start Focusing On What's Right appeared first on Real Weight Loss for Real Women.

This is a special Valentines Day Episode just to expound more on how each relationship is different and to get the best out of your mate, you have to accept them for who they are and not try and compare them to others around you. Rememeber you chose them and they chose you, no one forced you to so now you should appreciate them for all have and do not have to offer you. We are still Reading from the book " How to stop dating the wrong Mr and Ms. Right-- Do you compliment each other?

How to Become a Prime Minister's Chief of Staff and Ambassador with Public Servant: Allan Hawke. Look, whether you want to work for yourself or someone else you need to DEAL with the unknown, you still need to communicate and LEARN to get along and work with people and get past doubt and being let down... Right? Do you think you can learn some gems from a former ambassador and chief of staff to Former Australian Prime Minister Paul Keating? What does it take to become a chief of staff? How do you even 'apply' for something like that? How does one become an ambassador, what does that take? Stand on Allan's shoulders and LEARN from the road that's ahead of you. We talk current state of politics - "oh what fun" and so much more. I DID NOT want this interview to end! It was THAT good! In TWO words....Listen IN. Currently Allan's appointments include Chairman of the Canberra Raiders and Chairman of the Canberra University Campus Development Joint Venture. This guy is an OVER achiever even in his 70's.In TWO words....Listen IN. Here's more. Dr Allan Hawke AC, FAICD, FIML, FIPAA is a great great grandson of Joseph Blundell and “Susan Osborne” through the 10th of their 11 children - Rosanna Meech (née Blundell). He was Chief of Staff to Prime Minister Paul Keating in 1993-1994; Secretary of Veterans’ Affairs from 1994-1996; Secretary of Transport and Regional Services from 1996-1999 and Secretary of Defence from 1999-2002. His final posting was High Commissioner to New Zealand after which he “retired” to become The Australian National University’s 10th Chancellor on 28 February 2006 - the only graduate of his alma mater to hold that prestigious position. In 2003, he was a Centenary Medal recipient - only the third specific Australian Commemorative award. Created to mark Australia’s 100 years of Federation, it was bestowed on people considered to have contributed to Australian society or government and laid solid foundations for the nation’s future. Dr Hawke received Australia’s highest civilian honour when appointed a Companion in the General Division of the Order of Australia in the 2010 Queen’s Birthday List for eminent service to public administration, particularly through the formulation and implementation of policy in the areas of defence, transport and education, and strengthening bilateral relations with New Zealand. Allan is one of 25 eminent Australians on the Committee for the Economic Development of Australia Leadership Council. His other current appointments include Chairman of the Canberra Raiders and Chairman of the Canberra University Campus Development Joint Venture. He is Patron of Respite Care Queanbeyan and until recently was ACT Cricket Patron, Chairman of Trusted Systems and Solutions, President of ACT Barnardos and until February this year was a Non-Executive Director of the Lockheed Martin Australia Board. Allan struggles with golf and writes about family history and Australian leadership as well as coaching, mentoring and speechifying on the latter subject. Listen IN. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/rita-joyan/message

- Jason Seiden That meant that I would gladly, if I could be the last person ever lose a child. I would I would take that on, if I could, to say it like that's how horrible it is that I don't ever want anybody else to feel it. And so other folks actually telling me that they're happy and that they're like, I think they would feel like I would feel worse, like rubbing it in.   - Jason Seiden But actually, no, you know, that's it's the opposite. Like live your life. And tell me you've opened up your eyes and you're stepping into it and you're aware of the discomfort and you're aware about the hard choices you're making and you're doing it and you're celebrating those wins because they're so few and far between. Those were, the those were the best things.   INTRO   Jason Seiden is joining me today to talk about his daughter Elle.  Elle was passionate about social justice causes, possessed of a sardonic humor.  She was insightful and creative…and she is dead.  She committed suicide after suffering from debilitating pain due to CRPS (complex regional pain syndrome) diagnosis and committed suicide at fifteen years old.    What does it mean to honor her legacy, to remember her in all her fullness?  What does it mean as a father to live a life that encompasses such a profound loss but is not ultimately defined by that pain?  Jason is articulate, reflective, and honest in this powerful conversation.    Before we begin, I’d like to thank our sponsors.  First, we are sponsored by FullStack PEO.  Providing full-service solutions for entrepreneurs and small business, FullStack manages the details so you can get back to doing what you do best, running your business.  We are also sponsored by Handle with Care HR Solutions, with engaging, interactive training ans coaching sessions, we empower you to give meaningful support to your people as they go through disruptive life events.    Back to our conversation.  First, as a sidenote, Jason was sitting outside during the first part of our conversation due to water damage and clean up crews in his house…and you might hear the birds singing under some of his thoughts.   In the months after my daughter, Mercy, died, someone reflected that there wasn’t a word in the English language for a parent who has a child die.  If your spouse dies, you are a widow.  If your parent dies, you are an orphan.  It is almost like the death of a child feels so against the nature of things that language itself can’t encompass the loss.    Jason and I began our conversation talking about the difficulty of talking about the death of a child.  Jason has founded and sold businesses, he is a gifted teacher, trainer and communicator.  He recalled putting together a presentation on the fly.   So. Yeah. So I a 19 and a half minute clip. And I lost the teleprompter halfway through. And still in one take was done in less than 20 minutes.   - Jason Seiden And then my partner at the time spent three hours trying to record the same 20 minute clip. Yep. This is hard. They said this is this is you know, I'm speaking from a much different place and I'm surprised at how difficult it is.   - Liesel Mertes One person's journey is not anyone else's. But I remember specifically in that the aftermath of my daughter Mercy dying. It felt so in. I mean, there's so many things that make it feel de-centered. And but for me, like if there's anything that I traffic in and feel comfortable in the world, it's words like it's it's been able to communicate. Similarly, you know, I have my own stories of like know what? Like I feel adept in that realm.   - Liesel Mertes And to come to a place where it's like I. I feel. It just feels different. And it felt it felt like it it have done a skill set, that it was like I'm normally so comfortable doing this.   - Liesel Mertes How could even this feel altered? Well, you're aspects of that.   - Jason Seiden And I know you well, I want to talk about the journey since losing Elle. But I think this is this is actually a great opener because it's it's true. I've journaled my entire life. I've written my entire life. I've written books. I have novel length stories that you'll never see the light of day written. And when when I wrote after her passing, I went back to read some of those journals. And some of them are very clear, like, this is a man who's in pain and who's articulate about it.   - Jason Seiden And then there's other journal entries that are just noise. It's you read those you like. Oh, that's what it looks like. It's unintelligible. It's it's it's complete. It's just you. These are not sentences. These are not phrases. That makes sense. These are, this is raw stuff. And it's remarkable. And you kind of say to yourself, I'm good with words. I lived with a thesaurus, I'm specific with them. And if I'm struggling to find just even the basics, how is everybody else going to do?   - Jason Seiden Right. You know, we don't we don't step into things that are hard. We tend to avoid things that are hard. And this is this is the hardest. So I think most people avoid grief when possible. Certainly the kind of grief that we've had. And that just means, they're completely unprepared. I was entirely unprepared for what happened. And trust me, if I could have avoided it, I would have. It's a hell of a journey to be to find yourself in particular for the first time.   - Jason Seiden And then also you are surrounded by people who are equally as inarticulate to help.   - Liesel Mertes And that's you know, that gets to also the profoundly isolating nature of grief because to to communicate where you are, like it's hard enough to just know, like, you feel like you're throwing words against a wall. But to be able to be understood by another person and that can just feel so daunting. Like, I don't even know how I'm feeling. And now I've got to find some words to have, you know, what I'm feeling.   - Liesel Mertes And maybe it's just better to be alone. You know, it can be that retreat. And to just I don't even know.   - Jason Seiden Yeah, well, I think there's a, I think there's a lot of truth to that. If I go back, I still default. I bridge that problem with something that I started defaulting to the week Elle passed. So I lost my daughter a year and a half ago. Coming up on two years, actually. And she, she died of suicide. She had been very sick prior to that. And she was in intense pain. She had a condition called CRPS. complex regional pain syndrome.   - Jason Seiden And it's it's just it's nerve pain. And it's always on. It never stops. Nerve pain, like when the dentist hits the nerve in your tooth and you hit the ceiling. And she had it in both her legs treatments for years. Nothing was was helping. It was getting worse in certain circles. It's actually known as the suicide disease because it doesn't have the decency to kill you. But, yeah, it's it's close. You know, it's terminal.   - Jason Seiden Who can live with that pain or that amount of time? So there's others, too. It sounds awful, but there's this one benefit that I got, which was despite having lost her to suicide. I don't I don't wonder. Could I have done more? Was there you write like that. Mental health is invisible. And it's real, but it's invisible and it's it's difficult as a human to accept things you don't see without wondering, could I have had some sort of control over that?   - Jason Seiden And when it's physical and you can see it, it's a little bit easier to go. I couldn't control that. That was a thing. And it was a whole conversation we could have around mental health and how it needs to be in the same category. But for, for this, what I wanted to say was in those early days, the words that it was that were most easy for people to find were were those around how Elle died, what she died of, what her condition was prior.   - Jason Seiden And I very quickly found myself initially trapped by that. It put me in the past. It put me you know, I had, had this journey of trying to help her and in all kinds of stuff was going on. You can imagine the complexity of the dynamics of dealing with, by the way, not only a crippling disease, but the most misdiagnosed disease out there. Right. It just was so I didn't want to be in that space. And it kind of struck me one day to a lot of thinking and metaphors.   - Jason Seiden And I couldn't find the words myself, but I had this metaphor that sort of hit me. I'm talking about Elle in terms of CRPS would be like talking about MLK, Martin Luther King, in terms of gun rights, you know, or Anwar Sadat in terms of gun rights. It's like, yeah, these guys were assassinated. That's true. But they stood for something else. They lived for something else. What they lived for what they died of were totally different.   - Jason Seiden To make MLK the poster child of gun rights would be to lose his legacy as a civil rights leader. What a shame. You know, you kind of you know, you'd have to kind of look at him and go, OK, technically true, but we're not going to use him for that. Like, we're not gonna make him. And I don't mean to use him. Right. But we're not going to. That's just not going to be his legacy.   - Jason Seiden And with Elle, sorry, it was just it was the same thing. You know, she was a social warrior. She lived for stuff that she didn't die of. And so I found those words and I found it. Redirecting people really helped me control my narrative. And I still do that. I still use that today.   - Liesel Mertes And tell me a little bit more about her, about some of the things that made her distinctly her and those causes. And particularly if, you know, she's she's a she's a fully fledged person behind the memory I'd love to hear more.   - Jason Seiden Yeah, absolutely. And so very early on before she was born, I just had a feeling about Elle. And I've got I've got two daughters there and I've learned first on Elle. And it's just proven true with my other daughter as well, that as a parent, my job was just to get the stuff off the high shelf.   - Jason Seiden You know, these kids coming up, they're fully formed. They're they're, a bit like flowers. Right? Do they have to for all. They have to blossom. But the flowers in there.   - Jason Seiden Nothing I could do to change the raw material. And and, you know, so Elle was very special. She, she had a wicked sense of humor. Like, just even from a very, very like an impossibly young age. Understood sarcasm. I don't know if your grandparents on your side. I mean, she couldn't because she couldn't have been like more than a year old. And my grandparents would come and babysit her for more than once. She's understanding sarcasm. Yeah.   - Jason Seiden I changed the tone of my voice. And she doesn't laugh. I flip the words around. She looked like she only laughs when it's a deadpan opposite, you know? The description is deadpan and opposite of what's true. She is following sarcasm. And it just, it was why she was always very tapped in. She she just you know, she came to this world with knowledge that you look at her and. There's no way that that knowledge came from five years of existence on this planet.   - Jason Seiden It's just kind be living proof of something bigger.   - Jason Seiden  And she had a way of getting noticed. I'll tell you one story, which is just one of our segments. When the girls were maybe 7 years old, I took to sort of overnight count drops kids leave families rent cabins, and then have a dozen families in those camps all up in Sweetwater, skier No.12 things. They did a talent show and one girl after another is getting up and doing cartwheels and walkovers.   - Jason Seiden And they're up there for ten seconds. Let me run off the stage, get going.  Elle gets up there and start a cappella singing. Don't stop believing.   That's awesome.   - Jason Seiden And the camp director stops her, runs up to the stage. Wait, wait, wait, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. And I'll think something's. She turns on all the equipment plugs in her iPod, iPod, and let's Elle do the full five, five and a half minute song scene over Steve Perry. We're all downloading on our phones. The lighter apps are holding them up like a concert.   - Jason Seiden And that was Elle, you know, just just being able to put your finger on the gestalt start of the moment and own it. And it is remarkable. And so you're kind of one of the reasons why I don't like thinking of her when she was sick was all of that power. It's not just that it went away. It never went away. So, you know, somebody with that much kind of cosmic ability gets sick, real sick. It's just it's so wrong and so far away from what she works for, what she stood for.   - Jason Seiden She was always so zoned in. So you wanted this story. This is actually relevant to her legacy. So I do a lot of communications work at my house up with certain companies and also internal internal comms. Well, politics has a role in that. And there's an immediate negative connotation to politics that people have. And so to break it out, I would give people this moral dilemma. And, you know, I just let them sit with it where they realize, OK, I may not like politics, but they're real.   - Jason Seiden I can't escape this question. Damned if I do or damned if I don't. It's one of those kinds of things. And I posed it to Elle. She's 10 years old. And Liesel, I'm telling you. Maybe two adults out of hundreds. I posed this question to and Elle heard the question and she said, well, you know, the only way to win is to not play you both these actions. Horrible. It's just a you're just choosing which value you want to violate and which value you want to maintain.   - Jason Seiden That can't be true to yourself with either. You know, I think the outcomes once you're in that position. Like, oh, my God, she's 10. And she understood that. And here so, you know, so it's, it just it felt. It has always felt important to honor, you said, who she was. Things that made her unique.   - Liesel Mertes Yeah. Those are some remarkable memories of who she was and, yeah, what she brought the color and dynamics.   - Liesel Mertes I want to talk about, yeah, the journey after her death.   - Liesel Mertes I'm, I'm struck that even as you are carrying her legacy, you, you are also shaped by who you needed to become in the midst of watching her be sick.   - Liesel Mertes What were some of the things that you noted in yourself as a parent, at that time, that shaped you?   - Jason Seiden The things that I noted as a person and same things and as a person of. Life has to be lived and risks have to be taken. The only way to not make a mistake is to not play the game. And that's so you're just not safe as a as a parent. I'd always cited my job as kind of two parts, one part keeping my kids safe and two parts helping them unlock who they are and, you know, make the most of this world. And, you know, my daughter's gone. So a very, very fundamental way, I did not keep her safe.   - Jason Seiden We can have a very intellectual conversation, Did I control her getting ill. And, of course, like, you know what? No, of course not. But it's like you're never going to tell me. I will never be able to feel that as a parent because she's gone. I. So this the game, whatever, whatever that's I was making whatever balance I was trying to strike between keeping you safe in the world or the game with her. It was frozen.   - Jason Seiden Right. It's it's lockdown. There is no no more time on the clock. There's no hope. There's no tomorrow. There's nothing's going to change. And so they're validating that recognition that there is no safe there. There is no harm.   - Jason Seiden By the way, not only do you have to play the game and not only your mistakes be made, but there's consequences for those mistakes. People will be hurt when you make a mistake. I've had to I've had to come to grips with that both as a parent and as a human.   - Jason Seiden And it's, it's, you start to see the world a different way.   - Liesel Mertes What, what does, I'm struck by how profound and. Yeah. Awful. That feeling is because so much of what we get to do living in like a wealthy, affluent, you know, society is we don't have to feel unsafe in so many areas of life. And and to feel it at such a visceral level is horrible. When you say, you know, I've had to come to grips with that. What has that looked like for you?   - Jason Seiden I don't know. That's a powerful question. I'm not sure what it looks like, but I'll tell you, it feels like things. It feels like my life before was it's just been pulled to the extremes. And I'm not dealing with any emotions that were foreign to me. I'm just dealing with a lot more of them. So it's funny, I actually said, you know, here's this girl who introduced me to stretch my capacity for joy in one direction. And then the passion stretched my capacity for sorrowing another.   - Jason Seiden On some level, like how do you just not feel gratitude for somebody who gives you more life to live? And. It shows like that.   MUSICAL TRANSITION   - Jason Seiden You're constantly playing other people's emotions at life events and realities. You have to live your life. If you live boldly, you will. Other people will be hurt. And you have to be OK with that. I'm not saying you should be indiscriminate or not care. I'm just saying to be simultaneously OK, moving in the light, doing your best, try and take care of people and understanding you can't save everybody. In fact, the act of saving one person might cause somebody else to be hurt.   - Jason Seiden Yeah. And you feel it if it goes through an intellectual concept to something, you feel very deeply and constantly.   - Liesel Mertes Elle died. And you said it's been a year and a half.   - Jason Seiden Yeah. A little more coming up on two years.   - Liesel Mertes Okay. Still, when something horrible happens like that and even, you know, the. The journey of walking with an often misdiagnosed disease. All of those things. What were you finding that you, what were people offering you in the way of, like comfort or presence in that, you know, messy aftermath? That was really meaningful to you? Or even now, just things that you'd say, "Man like these people did it really well. They came alongside me and it mattered?"   - Jason Seiden It's for windchimes. So that's, that's Elle. They went off the top of our call and I just heard them.   - Jason Seiden Yeah. So. For so long, surprised at how much. I'm not somebody who asks for a lot of emotional support. Probably not dissimilar from a lot of men that way. But I was surprised at how much I actually needed it.  They were largely, I was really struck in the immediate aftermath at how supportive people were. It was absolutely incredible.   - Jason Seiden My professional colleagues are scattered all over the country, all over the world. And without my without my engagement, a few of them, Mark Stelzner, Lori Rudiment. Susan Strier.   - Jason Seiden I had friends who, you know, without without my help. I put up a page and tribute to Elle. She she died a couple of weeks before my birthday day. They promoted it for my birthday, a tribute to Elle and I just watched, I watched for  for twenty five thousand dollars get raised in a day in honor of my daughter for a small handful of charities. The Human Rights Campaign, chief amongst them. The United Colors Foundation, which helps LGBTQ homeless youth and Burning Land, which is a CRPS foundation. And it was it was absolutely incredible.   - Jason Seiden The next thing I know, the CRPS Foundation has a grant in its name that had been funded. HRC flew a flag in my daughter's honor, which I now have. It's it was astounding. So, in the immediate aftermath, how important, it was incredible,   - Jason Seiden As you can imagine. You know, as time goes on, everyone goes back to their lives. I've had a handful of people have continued to reach out. And it's so helpful. On the homefront. Everybody here has been incredibly helpful.   - Liesel Mertes What has that continuing to reach out looked like?   - Jason Seiden Literally just a check in and a thinking of you. That is all it takes.   - Liesel Mertes I think sometimes people fear that because they think out of the person doesn't want to talk. Or what if it brings up bad memories? Maybe I just won't do that. From your experience, how would you speak into like that, that cycle of second guessing that people can have as they should. I reach out and I'm out. What if they don't want to talk   - Jason Seiden I'd go back to what I was saying before? You have to live your life. You might make mistakes. Go make the damn mistake. Engage and you know. OK. So I'll tell you, the waffling shows up. And from my perspective, as the one going through this, It shows up and I can see it a mile away and I end up in a position then of having to take care of the people who are reaching out to me. Sure. I know it's fairly common. And, you know, and you do a great sweat.   - Jason Seiden I mean, like, this is such a horrible thing. I get it. We don't spend time with this if we don't have to. I'll assume it happens to you or something you're close to. You don't have to. Yes. So the, the, the fact that people are unprepared for it, I'm not surprised. The most helpful thing, we just when people reach out.   - Jason Seiden Actually, the most helpful thing is when people would reach out and say, I'm thinking of you. I just had a lovely time with my family. Oh, great day. And I was thinking of you and I was thinking about. And I gave my kids an extra hug and I made sure I didn't take it for granted. That made me happy.   - Jason Seiden And it's, it's so funny with these people would reach out and, I can't imagine what you're going through. And I always look at them and be like, why would you take one moment of your life and try to imagine what I'm going through? But yet we all know it's horrible. Don't waste your time. Just write like it's horrible. Check the box pass, you know. You know, it's a kids with, you know. This is gross. Taste it. No, no, no. Not to me.   - Jason Seiden Yeah. It's like that. Except with consequence, you know. No. Right.   - Jason Seiden I actually loved when people would tell me that, you know, they were thinking of me and they weren't taking the life for granted as a result because that meant that Elle counted.   - Jason Seiden That meant that I would gladly, if I could be the last person ever lose a child. I would I would take that on, if I could, to say it like that's how horrible it is that I don't ever want anybody else to feel it. And so other folks actually telling me that they're happy and that they're like, I think they would feel like I would feel worse, like rubbing it in.   - Jason Seiden But actually, no, you know, that's it's the opposite. Like live your life. And tell me you've opened up your eyes and you're stepping into it and you're aware of the discomfort and you're aware about the hard choices you're making and you're doing it and you're celebrating those wins because they're so few and far between. Those were, the those were the best things. Yeah.   - Jason Seiden I mean, I will say because it's relevant. I mean, we we. We tend to think of our personal life happening in one area, in our professional life happening in another. And they don't. A decade ago, I actually coined a term, "profersonal" for, you know, this notion of the bleed over. You know, we spend a lot of time working. And so what was really surprising was how difficult that transition was without the folks on the work front doing some of that, acknowledging as well.   - Jason Seiden Not just my friends. But, you know, this is where I'm spending my time. It really helps when, when professional colleagues check in as well. Otherwise, your your work starts to feel like just this void where it's like I have to go put on a, you know, put on a mask for the majority of my day.   - Jason Seiden You know, I I think this notion of. The notion of grief at work is not trivial. It's a huge part of people's days. And, you know, I'll say I worked at it at an organization when this went down. You know, the organization I was with great culture, phenomenal culture. But this was a this was a blindspot. And it showed, and it it had an impact, like the journey could have been different.   - Jason Seiden And. What I, what I could  have done quicker or more of, I think would have been. It would have been. I could've done more. Yeah, I couldn't move through some of this faster. And. And at the end of the day, I think there's a real. You know, I I'm getting through it. I will get through it. But I think the organization lost something. And when you kind of look at large organizations with hundreds or thousands of people, here we are in COVID, and the loss is real.  People are losing people.   - Jason Seiden And there there's complicated grief happening out because they're they're unable to be with the ones they love. Now is the time to actually step into this and to have that compassion. The benefits are are substantial. They're. And they're there at multiple levels. The economic benefit, the just, the benefit to us as humans. I think it's important that our organizations step into this breach and start recognizing grief is something that we all have a responsibility for helping people through.   MUSICAL TRANSITION   - Jason Seiden You know what it is? I'll preface this by saying I don't blame anybody. It's not an area. We haven't quite evolved to this yet. I think we're on the front edge. I think people such as yourself are on the cutting edge of bringing awareness to the business environment, of the importance of dealing with grief effectively. So, you know, we're we're getting out.   - Jason Seiden We're getting a handle on DNI. And I think in that same bucket. This is this is their belonging. When you start thinking about belonging as a as a goal for DNI. Well, belonging. If you're dealing with something that nobody else is dealing with, whatever that thing is, that's your your barrier to belonging. So hopefully as we kind of move in this area, the will all get better. But, you know, it's little things. It's.   - Jason Seiden First of all, texts and messages from people are super helpful. Doesn't take much. It's just like, hey, just checking in. How you doing? The gap is experienced when you don't get those more, when the only time you do get them is on the front end of a call where you're talking about other stuff. Because, you know, I would get that from my manager. Looking back, I think the only times there were check-ins were back at the top of a call.   - Jason Seiden I'd be like, hey, how you doing? OK, great. So here's like the five things that we've got to go through today, right?   - Liesel Mertes It feels like. Yeah. Just like, hey, are you are you ready? I'm with tasks because I certainly am.    - Jason Seiden And so in, you know, like, OK, great. And so it's it doesn't count, you know. And it creates this problem with the other person thinks, I'm checking in. And you're like, no, no. You're just making sure that I'm ready to go through your agenda. That's not a check-in.   - Jason Seiden That's like.   - Jason Seiden It's like, you know, is your you know. Can you can you mute the background noise? It's it's administrative at that point.   - Liesel Mertes Different than having, a specific time that is not encumbered by any other aspects of an agenda that would, you know, crowd it out. Yeah.   - Liesel Mertes Sometimes people say ill conceived, offensive, stupid things to people who are grieving.  What were some of the least helpful things that you heard? That you say, you'd say, you know, you can do all kinds of things, there's a margin of error, but don't do this. Let me do you a favor. Don't do this.   So I'll give you so I'll give you three answers. Number one, there's always some people who are close to you who are surprising in their lack of support And so I had two of those two people who just AWOL, like shockingly AWOL. Oh, my gosh. Right. So that's. The lack of saying something is saying something. There are, then there are people who make it about themselves.   - Jason Seiden So when I was getting married, I remember the people who were in the inner circle. Right. You're a close friend. We'll get married and you find that the venue was small and you'd call and be like, dude, totally get it wherever you need to see this, totally fine as long as I'm in the venue. You do what you gotta do because you're going to have some issues here with your seating chart so you can see it coming.   - Jason Seiden I mean, it was the bubble. People like the people who were barely they barely made the cut. They're the ones who would be pissed that they weren't in the bridal party, too. They're like, dude, this is so backwards. Same thing in reverse. You know, my best friend like that. You know, Lori and Mark and Susan putting that thing together. That is so incredible. The people who showed up and who were part of it.   - Jason Seiden Amazing. And then, you know, there are the like the one or two people who who are like I was just I was appreciative that they showed up. And then I find out later they were angry that I didn't include them in the planning. And I'm like, they are so far out. They had no idea; I had nothing to do with the planning. But this was all you have a group coming together for me, like this wasn't me orchestrating.   - Jason Seiden I wasn't using Elle to. This is happening in support of her.   - Jason Seiden Right. And so that that's been that's been disappointing. You know, again, there's nothing that gets said. You just hear about that stuff sort of second hand. Right.   - Jason Seiden Then then the third part is just people who don't know what to say and you know, and they try. And I actually appreciate these people. It's it's hard for everybody. I can't tell you how many people asked me, how are you feeling today? And I'm like, you know what?   - Jason Seiden Good. Right. OK. Awesome. Like you went digging. You found the Sheryl Sandberg Plan B. Quote. And Granny read the headline and you're giving that to me. When you start getting the same question over and over again, it's it's hard. You know, I like you. You wish people would kind of real deeper or maybe find another avenue or, you know, kind of go, OK. But everybody else is saying this. So can I find the next thing?   - Jason Seiden Can I can I have the conversation to the second sentence? And so I don't want to. I want to discourage people cause it's so important to get started. I think it's just also really important to be thoughtful and to not stop at the first perceived solution. So it's not that those people said anything bad, it's that the ones who go beyond stand out that much more.   - Liesel Mertes Yeah, I hear that I'm struck. So I am reading there has been a book that that has just been published. I think it's it's called Meaning, The Sixth Stage of Grief. I'm going to check that for sure. But it's, it's a researcher who had worked with the Elizabeth Kubler Ross Foundation and after the death of his son said, you know, I feel like although these five stages that were described, they're not linear. They were never meant to be that way.   - Liesel Mertes But that the fact that an important stage for a number of people is actually the meaning that they are able to make in the aftermath of loss. Not that we. And he says there's a diversity of ways that can be another. The death in and of itself is meaningful. But there are different ways of making meaning from this and how the people who live beyond that integrate a loss or grief into their lives   - Jason Seiden Kessler.   - Liesel Mertes Yes. Yes. Have you read his book?   - Jason Seiden I have not read it yet. It's on the list.   - Liesel Mertes Yeah, I've heard him on an interview.   - Liesel Mertes It's I've appreciated it so far. It strikes me that making meaning has been an important aspect for you. Tell me what making meaning has looked like for you.   - Jason Seiden Yeah, it's some. I hadn't really thought about it until I kind of heard the concept and realized, yes. This is true. Life is really random. Right. So here's, here's something that that death does. It brings a finality to a relationship that cannot be undone. And it leaves you, you know, it's like the other side of the game. A tug of war drops the rope and you're just and you're left in this you're flying backwards stage.   - Jason Seiden Except there's no there's no hard ground to land on. There is no other person to laugh that they let go of the rope like you are now potentially flying forever in the wrong direction. And finding meaning is really for me. It's been around, you know planting my feet under me and just bringing that momentum to a stop and recognizing I can't honor Elle if I'm crumpled in a ball on the floor. I can't honor Elle if I'm in the past, you know, grieving her illness or thinking of her sick.   - Jason Seiden I can't honor Elle if I'm in the future, if I'm anxious about will this happen again and like this happen to somebody else and what if and what if I hurt somebody? And what if I'm responsible?   - Jason Seiden What if I did? None of that helps. And so for me, finding meaning has been around what Elle stand for. How can I honor her? What should I do? What can I do today that she would be proud of? And really, that's about grounding myself in the present and finding a way to conduct myself. That starts just getting through my day. Right. It's like, OK, I can't honor her if I'm crumpled on the floor.   - Jason Seiden So what does that mean? It means I have to choose to be happy. I have to choose to live like I have to choose to get up. I have to have to choose to try. So that looks like putting my feet on the floor. Getting out of bed, making the bed, making coffee, certain, basic stuff. And as and as I kind of got that underway, then it was like, OK, well, what am I doing?   - Jason Seiden What should I go do today? Well, I should be healthy. I should go for a run. You know, the CRPS attacked your legs. I'm going to go run. And I'm I'm I'm go use that part of my body that she couldn't. Because if I were you know, it's like if I want people to tell me that they're happy and they're not taking their families for granted, I have to assume she'd want the same. And so I'm going to do that.   - Jason Seiden And, and right then it cascades up from kind of the basic stuff to what am I doing, like, on a higher level and my leaving the world a better place. Am I taking care of the people around me? But at the end of the day, finding meaning has been around grounding myself in the present so that I can honor her in a way that also allows me to move forward.   - Liesel Mertes I think that there are some people who would hear something like that, you know, they would this, Elle want me to live fully and be happy and I'm purposing to do that, that for some people that can morph into, I'm, I'm just not going to think about these unpleasant feelings anymore. When they come up, it could be its own form of avoidance and pushing those things away. How do you, how do you live into that meaning without just ignoring the painful feelings that can crop up unexpectedly?   - Liesel Mertes How do you still acknowledge and honor some of that sadness and emotion?   - Jason Seiden Easier said than done. I can't say that I do that perfectly. This is, this is not a topic that I speak easily about and I actually don't speak a lot about because it is hard to step into those feelings without kind of getting lost. But.   - Jason Seiden I think. For me. If I'm totally candid there are parts of it that could feel sacrilegious. There are times where moving forward actually feels like it's gonna be disrespectful like that, the respectful thing to do would be to sit and cry and grieve and be a mess and that the way to honor her would be show her how important she was by showing her how incapable I am of moving forward without her.   - Jason Seiden And at those moments, it's a hard choice and the hard choice is to remember, we are all individual people on this planet and me doing that, me, quote unquote, honoring her in that way would be to lose two lives. So that doesn't work.   - Jason Seiden And then you get. Right. So that's, that's sort of one path. And so I just I allowed the emotions and the thoughts to kind of carry me to get to that point. And I'm like, OK, I can't do this.   - Jason Seiden It doesn't work. So even though the other side, even though moving forward doesn't feel right, I just proved to myself that sitting here in a bar wallowing doesn't work. So I'm going to go make that choice. That doesn't feel right, not because I'm drawn to it, but because I am repelled by this other thing.   - Jason Seiden And then, and then there's another part too, which is there's a piece of it that's like, well, to honor her feels like picking up her torch. And carrying that and becoming the social worker, becoming her, doing the things that. And I run into the same problem. We're different people. He, you know, I can support her causes and I am. But I'm I'm taking my time because, this happened to me. It could very easily be the thing that defines me.   - Jason Seiden And I've spent my entire life to defining myself to be something else. I'm not ready to just let this become the thing. You know, there's the guy lost. That's not who I am. What I want to be is the guy who shows people how to continue to be themselves. Even when something like this happens.   - Liesel Mertes Yeah.   - Jason Seiden And so, you know, so there's a it's it's hard, you know. What does it look like and how does it feel? Sometimes it feels sacrilegious. Other times it feels like I get selfish.   - Liesel Mertes We are drawing near the close of our time. But I'm struck in that last thing you said, you know, you are you are not just a man who has had his daughter die.   - Liesel Mertes What are some interesting things that you like about yourself that make you you?   - Jason Seiden You know, it's a surprisingly hard question.   - Liesel Mertes Sometimes it can be. I have a friend who would do that to people on their birthdays. He would be like, you need to tell all of us three things you like about yourself. I felt kind of awkward.   - Jason Seiden I live out loud. I, I, I make my mistakes. My my dad used to say, my dad says, own your mistakes. They're the only things other than your name that other people won't try and take credit for.   - Liesel Mertes And it's a great line.   - Jason Seiden It is. And in this day and age of of digital piracy, your name's not even safe. So, like, literally, my mistakes are the only things I can. So I make them and I do my best to make new ones all the time. I try not to repeat. So I live my life. I learn. I still am learning. I am still open to learn. I don't.   - Jason Seiden I know what I know. And I. I've earned my gray hair once, I don't have to earn it twice like I know when I'm in a situation where I actually have an expertise, but I am well aware that it's a great big world. And, you know, I have like, this tiny speck of knowledge within it.   - Jason Seiden So, I appreciate the fact that at my age I can still look at the world with a certain amount of wonder and to sort of get lost in it and want to know how things work.   - Jason Seiden And. I. You know, I and I'm stronger than I realized. I have a certain amount of resiliency that I'm. This has not been an easy journey, but I'm I'm surrounded by people in this club that I don't want to be in.  But,  those of us who are able to persevere and make something positive of it. I, I see the people who aren't able to do that. And I can I can recognize that I'm I mean, about I have something to offer because the boat I mean, it's the boat of people who are able to move forward. And I'm proud of that.   MUSICAL TRANSITION   Here are three reflections from my conversation with Jason.   Even if you aren’t sure of what to do or say, move towards people in their grief.In his words, “Live your life, make the damn mistake,”.  You won’t be perfect and you don’t have to be but your support matters. If you are in a workplace setting with a parent that has lost a child, especially as a manager, make time to actually check-in with them, not just as an entrée to a meeting, ticking a box so you can get on with an agenda item.This might mean scheduling a call or a meeting that isn’t about a to-do list but only about hearing from them about their how they are doing.  Navigating life after the loss of a child is hard.Jason expresses the complex, internal challenge of moving forward, of not letting himself be singularly defined by Elle’s death.  Sometimes it can feel sacrilegious or selfish as he leans into life beyond his daughter, struggling to be and become himself even after tragedy.  If you are struggling in this journey, perhaps you find camaraderie in Jason’s reflections.  And if you know someone who has lost a child, perhaps this gives you additional insight.     OUTRO

Do you have a parent, partner or colleague who always has to be RIGHT? Do they blame you for things that you have no control over? If so, you may be dealing with a Hijackal. So, how do you identify when you’re in a toxic relationship? And more importantly, what can you do about it? Rhoberta Shaler, PhD, is the Relationship Help Doctor behind Transforming Relationship, a platform designed to provide ongoing care for relationships in crisis. She focuses on helping the partners, exes and adult children of the relentlessly difficult people she calls Hijackals to ‘stop the crazy-making and save their sanity.’ Rhoberta is also the author of 16 books on toxic relationships, and she serves as the host of the Emotional Savvy and Save Your Sanity podcasts. On this episode of Wickedly Smart Women, Rhoberta joins Emerald to walk us through the characteristics of a toxic relationship. She describes how Hijackals show up in personal and professional relationships, explaining what we can do to recognize their behavior and reclaim our sense of self. Listen in for Rhoberta’s insight on why fixing someone else’s behavior is not YOUR responsibility and learn the three hallmarks of a healthy relationship! What You Will Learn How growing up with Hijackal parents called Rhoberta to this work How to identify when you’re in a toxic relationship How the public perception of a Hijackal differs from their private behavior What Rhoberta does to help people regain their sense of confidence Why our adversarial court system favors Hijackals How Hijackals show up in business relationships The three hallmarks of a healthy relationship How to recognize ‘love bombing’ in personal + professional relationships How to identify when you’ve taken on Hijackal traits Why fixing someone else’s behavior is NOT your responsibility How Rhoberta’s spiritual life supports her in showing up + speaking out Connect with Dr. Rhoberta Shaler Transforming Relationship Emotional Savvy Podcast Save Your Sanity Podcast Rhoberta on YouTube Resources Escaping the Hijackal Trap: The Truth About Hijackals and Why They are Crazy-Making by Rhoberta Shaler, PhD Stop! That’s Crazy-Making: How to Quit Playing the Passive-Aggressive Game by Rhoberta Shaler, PhD New Media Summit Wrestling Rhinos: Conquering Conflict in the Wilds of Work by Rhoberta Shaler, PhD KAIZEN for COUPLES: Smart Steps to Save, Sustain & Strengthen Your Relationship by Rhoberta Shaler, PhD Connect with Emerald GreenForest Emerald’s Website Emerald on LinkedIn Emerald on Twitter Emerald on Instagram Email listeners@wickedlysmartwomen.com Apply to Wealthy Life by Design Leave Us A Message On Our listener line:   540-402-0043 x4343

You can run around and achieve all sorts of things right now, busy busy, buzz buzz, stay distracted, stay addicted, stay productive. Get informed and get involved! Keep up and don’t fall behind. Find a way, figure it out, keep pushing, hustle hustle baby. Oh yes, the encouragement of the money makers, how shiny! Can you hear the stress heads calling for your company? There they go on the desperate race from death towards meaning. Are they wrong? No. None of us are wrong. Right? Do you know you are right? Your rightness is validated by your results. Did it work? Are you creating what you want right now? Is this busy work getting you to the top of your mountain? Noise invades from every direction. Ears aching, mind static, tension bleeds into our body. Losing control, we are overtaken by the voices, clicking, clanging, barking. All I want is a peaceful life. Give me silence or a pair of Bose headsets, anything so I can escape this chaos. Close your eyes and explore the celestial landscape of your inner world. Breathe in...deeper, deeper, deeper, stretch your lungs. Do you feel the space you just created inside? It feels good, doesn’t it? What an expansive universe of sparkling delight you hold inside. Are you ready to stop stretching your fingers outside in the thin wispy emptiness? Plunge them into the warm gooey. Yes, down there in the dark spaces. Maybe it’s been a while since you’ve been here, traveling deep into the soul caverns. Hairs may stand up when you come close to the twistiest corners. Make friends with them slowly. Your heart may sigh upon the rolling vistas. Gaze as long as you like. It’s okay. You’re always welcome here, for a lifetime and beyond. Many years ago, a meditation teacher instructed me. “Don’t just do something, sit there.” He laughed of course and today I grin as I pass this wisdom on to you. The world will shout at your sweetness and depth, nagging you to get up and do something fast. “Don’t just sit there!” you’ll hear the voices yell. But from now on, when you close your eyes, you can us whisper, “Sit there, beautiful one. Enjoy your being.” CHA

The tables are turned this week as Stacey gets on the other side of the microphone. Kerri Sparling, writer of the long-running and popular blog SixUntilMe and now Children with Diabetes board member, interviews Stacey about her experience raising a child with type 1, what led her to claim "The World's Worst" title and much more. This is part of Children With Diabetes Celebrating Storyteller series. "There are some amazing storytellers in the diabetes community, and many of those folks have spent years honing their craft through blogs, books, and videos. Their stories of life with diabetes bring our community closer. Sharing stories helps make the journey with diabetes less isolated and instead paved with hope and camaraderie. (text from the CWD website) Stacey was excited to be selected to be part of this storyteller series, and even happier to be interviewed by Kerri. You can watch the video here, read the transcript below or, of course, listen to the audio on this episode. Check out Stacey's new book: The World's Worst Diabetes Mom! you can win a copy from CWD - must enter by March 20th. ----- Join the Diabetes Connections Facebook Group! ----- Sign up for our newsletter here ----- Use this link to get one free download and one free month of Audible, available to Diabetes Connections listeners! ----- Get the App and listen to Diabetes Connections wherever you go! Click here for iPhone      Click here for Android   Episode Transcript: This episode of diabetes Connections is brought to you by the world's worst diabetes mom real life stories of parenting a child with Type One Diabetes available as a paperback ebook and audiobook at Amazon and at diabetes connections.com. This is diabetes connections with Stacey Simms. Welcome to another week of the show. I am so glad to have you along. As always, I'm your host Stacey Sims. This is a little bit of a different week around here because we released our regular Tuesday interview episode early. If you haven't listened to that yet, it was all about the corona virus and basic information that people with diabetes need to know. Thanks very much to Gary Scheiner CDE and the director, founder of integrated diabetes services. He is always a very calm and informative presidents. He also has a great sense of humor, but I wanted to get that show out. pretty quickly, because you know, of course, as the situation is changing, podcasting is tough to get breaking news out. But we wanted to make sure to get basic information from a good source out to the diabetes community, because I've been seeing and I'm sure it's only gotten worse, a lot of rumors and the beginnings of some panic. So I hope you listened to Gary or read the interview as well, because I put it out as a blog post with just that interview, as well as a transcript with the entire episode. And I hope you've been able to share that a lot of people picked up on it and I really hope it's helped give you some good information. We'll do more as the situation changes if we need to get more information out there. And then this week is a little different because I usually do a mini episode here, where I'm just talking about one topic kind of an editorial, but I'm going to be bringing you an interview that Carrie Sperling did with me now carry most of you know, wrote the long running blog six until me she retired that last year. She's doing a lot of great work with children with diabetes. This is the group that among many other things, puts on those great friends for life conferences, the big one in July every year, smaller regional conferences throughout the year. And they do a lot of really good work in terms of information, and community outreach. So Carrie is doing some of these interviews and I was so excited to be able to talk to her. You may have seen it, they put it out as a YouTube video and I will link that right up. You want to stop right here and go to the video instead of listening. It's the exact same interview except to get to see us and it made me realize I need to work on the lighting in my office. But the information I hope is good. We talked about what led me to write the world's worst diabetes mom a lot about you know, parenting Benny, my son diagnosed right before he turned to 13 plus years ago now, privacy issues Carrie has shared this in her own life. You know, how much do you share online? How much do you not? How do you decide that? And it was really a fun conversation. It's always a A little weird to be on the other side of the microphone.   Unknown Speaker  3:02 It's not   Stacey Simms  3:02 my comfort zone. But here we go. Anyway, here is the interview that Carrie Sparling did with me.   Kerri Sparling  3:09 I am here today to talk to Stacey Simms   Stacey Simms  3:12 about this, oh my goodness,   Kerri Sparling  3:14 I had to climb on my bookshelf to get it down because I accidentally put it on the shelf that I couldn't reach without a stool. So thank you for giving me morning exercise for that. I appreciate it. But um, I Okay, let me make this more formal. I am very appreciative that you've taken the time to talk to me, and then we're going to broadcast this to the children with diabetes community and then share it through our different channels. So thank you for making yourself available. I know this has been chaotic, getting them on the line.   Stacey Simms  3:38 This is what I get out of TV, when really we just need to stick to radio, but I really appreciate it Carrie. Thank you.   Kerri Sparling  3:43 My pleasure. And so I want to jump right in because I've already kept so much of your morning already. So just if you could for a minute just introduce yourself to the community that may not know you already so they can get a sense of who you are, and then we'll get into the book.   Stacey Simms  3:54 Oh, sure. So my name is Stacy. My son Ben. He was diagnosed more than 13 years ago, which is bananas, time just flies, but he was not yet two years old. He was diagnosed with type one when he was 23 months. I have an older daughter Her name is Leah. She is three years older than him over there four years apart in school and I say that cuz she's a freshman in college now and he's a freshman in high school. I started a blog about a month after Ben he was diagnosed at the time I was working as a morning radio show host I had been a TV anchor and reporter that's the I hate pictures. Because it's all the makeup and the hair and the you know, I'm looking at myself like my headphones are so big on this is not good. I distract myself. Um, but then I started the blog and then four years ago, I started a podcast and then last year I wrote the   Kerri Sparling  4:39 book. That's that is awesome. And so so you've been sharing a lot of your family's experience and your personal experience with centered around diabetes, but going right into Stacey Simms, the world's worst diabetes mom. So this title obviously feels a little tongue in cheek because you are clearly very involved, clearly clever and also on top of things that are going on in your kids. In your family's health, so why did you call it this?   Stacey Simms  5:03 The book title came about because I had actually been working on a parenting advice book about raising a child with type one for a couple of years. And it was really boring. And it was really like had been done before. There are so many great books, especially, you know, from a layperson perspective, there are so many great books by medical professionals that can really tell you how to better manage, and I didn't want to just say, here's our story, and here's what I think. And I was writing that book, but I wasn't, I wasn't jazzed by it. It was kind of just writing, you know, old blogs and my publisher and said, Oh, put your old blogs together. We'll just put those out. You know, that just didn't sound right. To me. No friends really resonates like old blogs like it. So I was in a Facebook group, having a discussion like I still do, I foolishly still go into Facebook groups because I want to help people and I get help to still and we had a disagreement and it got heated. I really I felt strongly that this was an okay way to manage and the person was so mean and said, you're gonna you're gonna kill your child you're you're terrible parent, you know really went there. And I just said, Well, I must be the world's worst diabetes Mom, you and I slammed the computer shut and I walked away and I was like, Oh my gosh, this is it not not even think about the book but this is who I am I want to talk about making mistakes. I want to talk about living with less fear. I want to talk about not always being a slave to your beats. Are you okay? Do you need a juice box?   Unknown Speaker  6:33 Sorry, and beeping, then one of those days, but everything is fine. Thank you for asking.   Stacey Simms  6:36 But I just wanted to, I realized in that moment that I did have something to say. And it wasn't just about the old blogs. And I went back I screenshot of the conversation because I thought well, maybe this guy is bananas. It's gonna come after me. But I also deleted it. Because we didn't need my anger out there either. It wasn't just Hey, I was ugly too. So I got past that and I thought let's talk about all the mistakes I've made because we Made a ton of mistakes. And it's not a question about being a bad parent or a good parent, sure, you're gonna make mistakes with your kids, whether they have diabetes or not. And let's use those examples of mistakes to talk about resiliency and confidence and, and I think my son is better off for all the mistakes I made.   Kerri Sparling  7:16 I hope that applies to parenting outside of the realm of diabetes, because I'm not a perfect mom myself. And so it's reassuring to hear that stumbling leads to success, even if it's a modified version of the success you thought you were going towards. So I really appreciate that. And I also like the fact that it's not like here's how to be perfect by Stacey Simms, because that really puts people on their heels like you can't take advice from someone that you have on a pedestal it's always a lot easier to have a peer to peer conversation and that's why I feel like your book reads through it very a resonated for me and I'm an adult the diabetes not raising a child with diabetes but reading your perspectives gave me a lot of insight on maybe conversations that my mom and I never had or my email just think the cross Can you see that when it comes across You know, you're supporting the note cuz he's just some weird emails. But I just have a couple notes. I just wanted to look through this. But when I was reading through the book, there's the story of the first night that you guys are home with, with Benny. And, and it hit me really hard because I was thinking about my own two kids. And like I said, they don't have diabetes, but I was putting myself in your position. And it's so easy to be the person with diabetes from my perspective, but it is very, very different to be the person who carries just as much, but it's like 10,000 feet away for so much of the experience. And so do you think that it's important to have those stories shared like stories like yours and stories from adults with type one, so that we can kind of create a, an amalgam story sort of thing, like, why is that important?   Stacey Simms  8:37 I think it's a great question, because it's it's so important to recognize that the two experiences run in tandem, but they are so separate, as well. Right? We're never really going to separate them. We can't pretend they're the same. So a person with diabetes is having one experience a parent of a child with diabetes is having a totally different experience, obviously tied to By diabetes, and I, you've already said, Oh, I think it's you know, it's worse to be the parent, you've implied that by something you said, which is fine. I mean, I almost every adult with type one I know, says all my mom, it was so much harder on her.   Kerri Sparling  9:10 We're not saying it to make you feel better. We're saying, we believe that fun. Yeah,   Stacey Simms  9:14 I understand. But I disagree, because I'm not beeping, and I can walk away from it. But at the same time, it's not a question of comparing, right. And I didn't mean to put you on the spot. I'm not saying that you're doing that. But I think it's really important that we see these experiences as equally important, but very different, but then tied together. So telling all of these stories. I'm hopeful that Benny, when he gets a little older, we'll look back and read it. And he knows what he knows the stories we actually shared that ahead of time. We talked about what I could put in the book, but I'm hoping that he'll see it and kind of think, Oh, well, that was not my experience, but I'm glad to know it.   Kerri Sparling  9:50 Well, of course and you were saying it's not it's it's not about comparing them. I think it's about making a cohesive story around them like my low felt like this, but it looked and felt to my mother like this and meshing those two stories together together gives us a broader experience touch point. And I think that's so important, especially for like a teenage kid who might pick up your book and read it. And when they're in that angsty, angry part of diabetes, and they might be so furious with their parents to get your perspective on that might help segue a good conversation with their own parents. That's why I don't think this book is just for parents of kids with diabetes at cross collateralize is the whole community you know? I don't know. I think that's accurate. I'm gonna toot your horn for you that way.   Stacey Simms  10:28 One thing I think it's really interesting to talk about is you mentioned like the not perfect parenting thing. And I think it's we're under pressure, regardless of diabetes is parents right? You can't win you really can't. But I also think it's funny when you look at a lot of parenting blogs and parenting writings. It's either I'm a perfect parent and you should aspire to look like this. It's perfect Instagram photos or whatever, you know, look like us do like us eat like us. Or you have the oh I don't know what I'm doing.   Unknown Speaker  10:54 I'm so crazy on motherhood is that you know, I'm a man I look at my and I really that doesn't speak to Neither,   Kerri Sparling  11:00 right we are middle lane.   Stacey Simms  11:02 We are smart, we are strong. We are sometimes a mess. We are sometimes perfect. And I really I'm not. I know that sound like I was making fun. You know what I mean? If these archetypes, especially women we get put into, right. I'm a hard driving success story or I'm so clumsy. I fell into my man, you know, I mean, I hate that. So I tried to really in this book, kind of encapsulate, you know who I am, but who I think a lot of other moms are too, right. competent, confident,   Kerri Sparling  11:29 but not having it all together. Now might be an important part to bring up the fact that I'm wearing normal clothes from the waist up, but sweat tears from the waist down. So like I think that sort of is the it's the template for that. They need you there we go. Wait, you you would actually skipped ahead to something I wanted to ask you about. Sorry. Should No no, that's fine. This is good, though. When you're using the questions, I know and I don't normally write my stuff down. But I'm organized today. Um, but yeah, we talked about when you first started sharing your stories, and Benny was home that first night That sort of stuff. And you used to write about Benny's personal experiences and yours. And as he's gotten older, and his experiences become more his, you've said that you've stepped away a little bit from telling his stories and have embraced. I can't describe it for you. But like, what, what's it like to decide to share x in the beginning, and what makes you transition to the y?   Stacey Simms  12:19 I think it's such an important conversation. It was interesting in the beginning, and I do wish that I'd given my kids just a little bit more privacy by changing their names, or giving them nicknames. The problem for me was I was already on the radio. And we had a show where it was mostly political news. But we did talk about our personal lives a little bit. So my listeners knew when I started at that station, I had a one year old daughter. And then when I was working at that station, I was pregnant and then I had a baby and here's Benny in the hospital, you know, it was a different experience than just blogging. So it didn't really occur to me at the time and social media. Certainly what it is now isn't wasn't then what it is now. It was a different experience. But when you have a toddler, you have a baby, I mean, even going back, I was Careful at the time not to overshare I but as he got older you realize, you know people are reading this people are looking at this. There were there were only some experiences that I felt comfortable sharing and it wasn't just the good stuff, right? We shared things that things went wrong. I thought that was important. But I'm I'm on the record. I sound like a broken record. You know, I don't share my Sunday one. See, I don't have that. I don't like you know, do not share photos of your child in distress. You know, no hospital pictures. I wish I had pictures of him in the hospital and he was diagnosed for me. Sure. But you know, we didn't have our phones with us. 24 seven at that point, especially didn't have cameras on them, which sounds so ancient.   Kerri Sparling  13:43 I mean, this is what it is right? Like when I was diagnosed with diabetes, I had to pee in a bucket to test it. So like things had to not a bucket. I mean, let's be realistic about this. But you know, things have progressed and with it the the conversation about what to share and not to share and so, I mean, you talked already about not sharing his anyone see? And I think personally, I am on the same page with you about that no one needs my personal data points because their mind in their personal, but that there's a broad spectrum of decision making processes around that sort of stuff. So what made you decide not to do that?   Stacey Simms  14:14 Well, I think I'll just put a caveat in there, I think, to not mindlessly share, right? Sometimes it makes sense if you're trying to talk through something or get advice or share a situation or, or say, hey, look at this difficult situation we worked through and now we're celebrating I mean, just mindlessly is the word I tried to use about it. But what changed was when he was about seven, I think I read something by Moore McCarthy, who is a mentor of mine, and she's longtime blogger, author, I mean, yeah, faculty, you know, I probably saw her speak there and got this information, but she really encouraged me and others to think about it. And once I stopped to think about it, I realized there's no reason for my seven year olds health information to be on the internet. I'm not posting my weight and my cholesterol. And you know, my blood pressure. It's the same thing. We don't see it that way, right? But it really is. And that once I thought about it, it changed everything for me and I started sharing more, you know, great endo visit no changes, everything's on track or great endo visit. We had a whole conversation about changes we have to make sure sometimes like bad, you know, bad can be good when you get the information. Yeah, I love the finger quotes.   Kerri Sparling  15:27 But I feel like that's an important part of it too, because it's not truly bad or truly good. There's a right   Stacey Simms  15:32 dial up stations get better when you get away from the numbers. I agree. You know, you can you can have more in depth about how you're feeling and what advice you're looking for. And that sort of thing. So I've shared with friends when I've said old I'm upset about this, or can you help me with that? That's different.   Kerri Sparling  15:46 Yeah, no, of course because that's your actual personal life but broadcasting it to the broader internet as a different person retired. As a kid who grew up with Type One Diabetes, that's my perspective. And yours is parenting a kid who's growing up with Type One Diabetes. How How do you feel about I mean, you see a lot of memes from parents about parenting in general where they have like the curlers, half in their hair, and the bathrobe and the coffee cup dangling off of one arm, and they're like, parenting is so exhausting. And that feels universally haha. But when I see that same sort of meme applied to diabetes, like, this is what a parent of a kid with diabetes looks like. And they just look bedraggled and rotten and exhausted and as an adult with type one that applies a guilt to my experience that I didn't see coming. And so I'm just curious what you think about things that paint diabetes in a light that maybe they don't realize is shining directly on their kid. When parents tell those sorts of stories? Yeah, it is a great question because the reality is, maybe you didn't sleep that great last night, right? Maybe you were up three times treating a low. But are you talking about me because that was my nightlight?   Stacey Simms  16:49 Well, I do have Do you have a baby can still because there was a signal in my house. No, I   Unknown Speaker  16:52 do.   Stacey Simms  16:55 It No, I'm talking about the parent, right. So if a parent has to do that, and then wants to go on from But the next day and start talking about how hard it was. I can understand that. But I do think and my favorite meme about this and I don't think it started as a diabetes parenting meme. I think it's just a parenting meme. But it's like, you know, an 87 year old woman, and that it says like, well, parenting is hard. You know, my I'm celebrating my 23rd birthday tomorrow. Money. But I do think that you've hit it on the head, that's going to be my would share about diabetes. I think it's difficult to know where to draw that line. And we don't, we don't think because what we're doing not to get all psychological. But in doing some research for a recent podcast I was doing I found a great article about this and I can send you the link but when we're sharing things like that we're looking for likes, right because our brain As humans, we need support. We're looking for community. We actually like to get the good Brain Stuff going the dopamine or whatever, when you get the right weights real and physical and social hosting, something like that, you know, is going to bring in more of that. And it's not made up. It's not fake. Oh, yeah.   Kerri Sparling  18:09 Feeling it all   Stacey Simms  18:10 really happens. But there are better ways of doing it. I think and as you were alluding to, if we, as parents of kids with type one, don't listen to adults with type one, we miss out on this kind of conversation, because no seven or eight year old is going to say, you know, it kind of hurt my feelings or I, I really processed some guilt when you posted that, right? They're not gonna say that they may not even realize it, but we need to be mindful of that kind of stuff. And I think it's fine to have fun and you know, maybe share that privately. But um, you know, I I'm really try hard not to make diabetes, the focus of everything and not show that guilt because that's just parenting anyway.   Unknown Speaker  18:48 Right? It's just an added thing.   Stacey Simms  18:50 It is just an added thing. It's like not to get too far off topic, but when people are freaking out about sending their kids to sleep overs, sure, right, because something might happen when I was in second grade Jennifer Look, it's like At my house, we had a babysitter. We didn't eat that my parents and she put her leg on my bed. It was the 70s. It was like some metal crazy trundle bed. She cut her leg bad enough that we had to go to the ER and get stitches.   Unknown Speaker  19:10 Oh, wow. How do you prepare for that? I don't think you do.   Stacey Simms  19:15 Things happen on sleep overs. emergencies happen. Parents who say I'm gonna have sleep over have to be prepared for weirdness. And to me diabetes falls under that category. But that's a decision you have to make. And I think it's the same thing with that kind of a mean, you kind of have to make the decision of, there's a difference between, everything's fine, everything's fine. Everything's fine, which I've been guilty of for a long time. It's fine. It's fine. I'm not gonna worry about it. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I don't need any help. I'm fine. And there's a difference between that and what was me everything's terrible. Like, like sucks and you know, oh, my God, diabetes is the worst. You gotta you gotta find that medium and you've got to, at least to your children, I think it's important to fake it, but be careful about stuff like I might.   Kerri Sparling  19:57 I like what you said earlier because I read a lot about my fulness and being mindful and making sure that you're mindful, but the fact that you've cited mindlessness as a potential alternative to that, like, don't be mindless, don't share mindlessly consider the you know, the course of your actions that you're taking and how it might influence your kid. That is a huge takeaway already. For me from this conversation. It doesn't apply just to parenting diabetes, I think it applies to the whole mess being Don't be mindless about the things that you're sharing. I think that's a really, really good tip.   Stacey Simms  20:26 It's funny because I stink at being mind. Right? You're like, Oh, no, take your time when you eat and drink your tea and fever and, you know, take them home. I really don't think I can do that. But I can take an extra 10 seconds and think do I want to post this photo?   Kerri Sparling  20:39 Of course, not. In a mindfulness exercise once I was asked to spend one minute eating one m&m, and it was really strange experience and I'm sure it was really effective, but for me, it made me feel very stressed out. We can get into that later, but because we've talked a lot about parenting, and I'm sorry to be going back to my notes here. You You talked about it experience where you and your family are you at least and Benny and Leah met Nick Jonas, and how this was truly more of a thing for Leah, your daughter than it was for your son who is the one who has diabetes. And there's something that you wrote that really stuck with me because I feel like parenting a kid with diabetes, that parent is acknowledged a lot, which is fantastic. The child with diabetes is acknowledged quite a bit because they become the focal point of that narrative. But the siblings of kids with diabetes end up on this weird purgatory peripheral area, and they're not often acknowledged. And you wrote that at the end of meeting with Nick Jonas, that you had said the diabetes was in our lives. But she Leah knew we wouldn't let it take over she knew she wasn't going to be left behind and reading that now gives me goosebumps for reading it then also did too because it acknowledges a group of people that need just as much support as I do as a kid, as you do as a parent. And when I think about children with diabetes in the organization, the programming really speaks to that as well. It's not just for parents, it's not just for adults with type one is for the siblings. It really embraces the whole family. So because your wrote that awesome line. Could you say a little bit more about supporting a sibling   Stacey Simms  22:04 and, and the children's diabetes? I mean that friends for life Leah has come. And Mr. Summer schedules are always crazy. So it's rare that either one of my kids can come and like I still go, but I had a I had a blast, and she didn't really think she would. She kind of came as a favor to me.   Kerri Sparling  22:21 But she was when she was I   Stacey Simms  22:23 think she was 14 or 13. She was a teen. So she was in the teen programming. And you know, Benny was still too young to be in that programming. So they were separate. Yep. And she knew she was gonna get to go to a Disney park, which was amazing, you know, when state of fancy hotel with me and it was great. And she I don't think I saw her much. You know, she thought, Well, I'm not gonna do this. You know, we'll see how it goes. And it was wonderful, but it's really hard. You know, that's one of the few programs that there is for siblings. When when he was diagnosed, we got this reminder really off the bat and it did help us set the tone he was in high But on the Saturday, and on Sunday, I had an event that I had planned. And I do talk about this in the book. But it was an ice skating event uptown. So uptown from my house is about 45 minutes. Okay. And I was the only link between these two groups. It was a group from near my house and a group from your my work. Well, the skating rink was my work. They sponsored the rink. I didn't. I was working at a radio station that sponsored the rig. And I knew that somebody could take care of it, but it was going to be difficult. And Leah reminded me like we're still gonna go ice skating, right. We're still gonna go ice skating because I live in the south. Ice skating is exotic. No, it really is. I grew up in New York. I'm like, oh, there's never been she likes frozen ice that you walk on. Amazing, right? Magic. So I said to my husband, I'm like, We're going he's like heck yeah, go take her and he stayed the hospital and that was the day after my not your two year old was diagnosed and I'm thinking is this the right decision? Is this this is a terrible This is the world's worst diabetes mom because here I am leaving the hospital. But as soon as I I got outside I knew was the right thing. And that was the day that we said we can't let this take over our lives. So you have to be careful. Like, I don't I don't I say this not to judge but just again with that mindlessness and that mindfulness or you know, if you signs in your house that are like in this house, we're blood sugar fighting, you know, ketone, chicken, whatever it is, look, the science we will have in their kitchen. Nobody, I mean, if they're all diabetes related, of course, yeah. You know, have to be kind of careful unless you also have ice skating, hockey playing, you know, unless you want to have a litany of everything your family does. You know, I'm mindful of like, how many t shirts do I actually wear that say diabetes stuff on them all the time. And making sure like, I have stuff from my daughter's programming, and frankly, from Benny's programming that's not diabetes related. It's that kind of little thing I think that siblings really pick up on, like, if you name your dog or your cat or your goldfish after diabetes stuff, you know, it's a family pad. I mean, if it's a diabetes alert doc that might be different. I just think these are things that as simple We kind of forget, you know, they're always they're always watching and they're tallying. And you have to be honest with them that diabetes gets more attention. But with Leah, just having the conversation over and over again really helped. I mean, when she was 15, she and I had a great conversation about it. She said, I was really upset about it. And now I get it. Oh, it was amazing. I mean, he probably is back to being upset about it now.   Kerri Sparling  25:22 But it was great. You guys can talk about it is really nice, because a lot of times that animosity isn't voiced, and nobody has areas to sort of air their concerns. And so it's good that you give her space and like we mentioned in friends for life, people have that space to get that stuff out there. Oh, yeah.   Stacey Simms  25:35 I'm the over communicating Mom, you're like enough.   Unknown Speaker  25:39 Talking to me.   Kerri Sparling  25:42 We've talked about community, we've talked about sharing, we've talked about Facebook and the pluses and minuses of that sort of stuff. And it and it led me to the story that you had written about Benny losing his insulin pump. And then after that, you would, which I think is an amazing discussion about the cost of supplies, and how even small Children are mindful of the cost of things. And we'll get back to that in a second. But after that story you had mentioned, places to find support for when you have gaps like that, or you have issues like that. And I would love some perspective from you on as a parent whittling down this massive diabetes online community that we have access to, to a manageable size that kind of caters to what people might be looking for, like, advice for someone who's just jumping in and saying, there's so much how do I find what's best suited for me?   Stacey Simms  26:26 Yeah, absolutely. I think the best thing to do is if you're already online where where do you like to be? Right? Do you like Twitter? Do you like Facebook? You like Instagram, Pinterest? You got to find your house, like where do you like to live? And then once you're there, find your people. And let's have a Facebook cuz that's probably the biggest for parents. I know Instagram is a lot bigger than the last couple of years. But Facebook groups are still really really active for parents. And my advice there is be careful again, not to turn your Facebook into diabetes book which is what happened to me. I am in I am in 50 Five Facebook groups about diabetes. Now granted, I joined Facebook in 2008. So I had around for a while.   Kerri Sparling  27:07 Well, I'm just it was the look on your face. It wasn't like I'm so proud to be in 55 horrified to be in 55 it was a real mashup of the both   Stacey Simms  27:15 emotions. And that's exactly how I feel. So, because I'm like, I want to be here. And I like the vibe of this group. I like the information in this group. And I like to put my podcast in this group. But what I did was I muted the majority of this groups and that has been phenomenal. If you're not familiar as you're watching or listening. It's very easy to do, you can just mute the group. I think you unfollow the group might be the technical term, but you don't leave the group. So that way, when you want to dip into those waters, it's up your time. And my Facebook feed went back to being my real life, which is my friends, the stuff does the dumb things. I follow in a little bit of diabetes, and then I can jump back in whenever I want to. And Facebook Of course will find you you know if there's something interesting, put it right in your face, on Twitter if you're there, which is Just a crazy place to be the best, just all the politics and mess but DSM a is still your diabetes, social media advocacy is still the best hashtag on Twitter. They still do the Wednesday night chats. Those are wonderful. Instagram I'm struggling with just a little bit only because I like the realness of the stories and things that people I know that out. But I've been trying to follow more people and I'm not knocking anybody, you're all wonderful and beautiful. But I have talked to two influencer type people and I complimented one of them. That was such a beautiful shot in your hair looks so good. And you know, she said, Stacy, I have a hair person and a photographer.   Unknown Speaker  28:40 Diabetes person. What   Stacey Simms  28:43 if I had if I had a hair person and photographer I could change the world. I do wear pants. I'd be wearing pants. I would have better headphones because wearing Benny's beats I thought these would be smaller. You have cute little earbuds I don't know I haven't no here but I studio cans that are like this big I thought would be even more Your cancer headphones in the biz. But I just, you know, I can't do the influencer thing. So you but you as you listen, you might love that that might be your thing, go for it. But I think you have to find where you live where you where you feel comfortable, where's your vibe, and then you'll find your people but don't let it get overwhelming. And if you find somebody that wants to call you the world's worth diabetes. You walk away walk away unless you have a book. But I mean, really, it's not worth the argument. If someone tells me I'm wrong, I'm not going to change their life probably. Maybe I can help. I've got a good discussion going in my local group right now about finding babysitters. There are people locally I run a face for parents in the Charlotte area. Okay, started a few years back and it's been amazing. And there's a discussion right now people like I will never be able to leave my children alone. Yes, you will. And here's how. And so we're trying to help each other kind of get past that right. So   Kerri Sparling  29:59 that's See, I feel like the internet is fantastic. And it's done such a great job of connecting people who don't live anywhere near one another. But when it comes right down to human connection that people really crave in those moments of need, that hyper local stuff is huge. You can recommend a babysitter to me, but they're of no use to me in Rhode Island. But for the people who live down the street from you, they can go and call that person and they can actually hire them out. And that's, that says a lot to about the diabetes community how willing people are to give those really harder and resources and to share it with their,   Stacey Simms  30:28 with their people. That's beautiful. It is absolutely amazing. And you think I mean, I know this is a CWT interview, but the first thing that comes to my mind is going to that conference or any of the conferences that they put on. I don't even worry about what I'm packing my pack everything Ben he needs but you know if he's anything, somebody's got it, and they'll have you a 2am you know, it's just an amazing community. And I don't know, I think especially locally, knowing that we might see each other at the grocery store. Like that Facebook group is probably one of the nicest groups. I'm in   Unknown Speaker  30:59 You'll have to own what they say, right? Because they may see you over avocados.   Stacey Simms  31:02 I know who you are, right?   Kerri Sparling  31:06 We've run through the questions that I had structured for the book and my preparation. But is there anything else that you feel like it would be really pertinent to share with the specifically the CW, the audience,   Stacey Simms  31:14 one of the things I've learned just doing the podcast and now on this book tour that I've been on this year, it's just fascinating as the technology gets better and better, and you know, Benny's on the newest software from tandem, and, you know, there's all sorts of great stuff coming out. It's interesting how the change from 13 years ago seems to be almost more fearful. And it's not that it's not so much that people are afraid to let their kids do things. It's that they're afraid to let their kids get out of range. I think I'm seeing that a little bit among adults as well. Now my adult view is skewed to a lot of the influencers and people that you know, sometimes I see in person, but there's this that's another thing with the the world's worst is, you know, talking about staying in range was never part of my repertoire was like go play football, and we'll figure out how to put diabetes in the picture. I'm learning that a lot of people have. We have amazing technology. It's changed so much just in the last few years. And we need to encourage each other to use that technology to live fuller lives, rather than use the technology to post graphs. And it's just remarkable to even say that to a parent who was diagnosed, compared who was diagnosed, I mean, I've gotta watch language. No, I   Kerri Sparling  32:23 will go back to that in a second. You're right. You are right. My mommy got me it was a wee thing. Just, it was a different version of wheat. So that's a very fair statement.   Stacey Simms  32:31 I think with a 15 year old to I'm really trying to change my language over it's hard   Kerri Sparling  32:35 so of him. So I mean, his health is is your mental well being right. I mean, there's, there's no separation there. It's sorry to go on a tangent.   Stacey Simms  32:43 Well, this is a great discussion. This could be for another time too. And we'll talk more in person, but I think it's his diabetes. And I'm it's the family is affected, but it's his. So that's what I mean. And I completely lost Richard.   Kerri Sparling  32:56 Oh, wait. I was waiting to with that. I started ranges range, using technology to your benefit. I sorry,   Stacey Simms  33:06 I got all I get crazy bad language right now it's it's really hard for me to change over. But I just feel like we're finding that this the state of the art. I mean, I know what I'm saying in my community, we have a pilot program where your child is diagnosed, and they give you a dexcom in hospital when you go home. So it sounds great. But the problem is that there unfortunately, I don't know there's enough education and I'm not slamming the CDs and dexcom here has nothing to do with that. It's just the diabetes is hard. And so see everything from the beginning. Maybe you get used to that, but then the dexcom comes off and they don't wanna go to school, or they don't want to go to the waterpark, or they don't want to go on that that field trip or that overnight because they've never been without the depth causeway. And we're more and more and more of that, where I would be like, Oh, I hope your inset still on, you know, an hour but you learn resiliency, you learn stuff like that. Yes, the worst. And that's the story. When he was three, we were at a waterpark. That's in here. Instead came off and his blood sugar went really high because he was terrified of shots in sets at the time. And I thought, you know what this is going to be an hour to he's going to be fine. The long term, my indices stuff like this is okay, as long as we don't do it a lot. And maybe the running around will bring him down. It didn't, you know, so he got with Ari was 400 we change this instead, we got him home, he was fine. No ketones, blah, blah. But in my local group, someone had posted my kids dexcom came off, I'm not sending her the waterpark. I'm like, come on. Yeah, I got it. Right, we got to use this stuff to live better not let it restrict us long way of getting to that point. And that's really where I think I am right now. Because, you know, the technology is fantastic, but your stuffs gonna fall off. Things are going to fail. You know,   Kerri Sparling  34:44 you know, you have to continue on several life after diagnosis thing.   Stacey Simms  34:50 So it's been a long time. Permit this year, I can't believe it. Oh, and then you get to write about driving with diabetes, which is a Book unto itself, start, the book pretty much stops in sixth or seventh grade. So I'm not going to say that I'm an expert at high school yet, because I've only had one kid go through and she didn't have diabetes. So   Kerri Sparling  35:12 Nick Jonas at one time, so there is that there is that kind of coasting through. But um, but and so you have just been so generous with your time and your perspectives, I really, really appreciate it. And if you could just do me one solid real quick and let people know where they can find you online and where they'd be able to pick up a copy of your book. And obviously, we'll be including links to that, you know, and all the notes that are around this video, but hearing it from you is great.   Stacey Simms  35:34 Oh, thank you so much. I think the best place to go is the podcast website, which is diabetes dash connections.com. And then from there, it'll link to every place else the book, the podcast, the blog, blah, blah, blah. And   Kerri Sparling  35:45 so what's the actual URL for that   Stacey Simms  35:48 diabetes dash connections. com. Perfect. And I would love to do a book giveaway.   Kerri Sparling  35:55 Oh, we would love to have a book giveaway so   Stacey Simms  35:57 I can give away. Let's do this. Let's do a paperback And let's do an audio book. Because the audio book was really fun and interesting to do. If you ever do an audio book, it's quite the experience, like reading a dramatic play. It was very strange, very strange, totally different experience than writing it. But we can do a paperback giveaway. And then the audio book, that would be my pleasure, thank you.   Kerri Sparling  36:18 That would be amazing. And I will put a link to the giveaway page in this video and on the web page. But Stacey, thank you so much for your time for your perspectives for what you've given to the diabetes community and just being my friend, I appreciate that.   Stacey Simms  36:30 Thank you for giving me an excuse to put lipstick on today. The giveaway is open until March 20. I will link up all of the information you need. It is at children with diabetes at their giveaway page. You have to go there you can't do it on social media. We're giving away a copy of the book in paperback and an audio book as well. I'm really looking forward to seeing everybody from friends for life and children with diabetes at their conference coming up at the end of this month in Indianapolis. I'm hoping the travel plans you know stay the way we hope we are watching The virus situation I'm really not sure what's going to happen with travel. But Fingers crossed right now that we are able to do this. And I really appreciate partnering with them on this giveaway and being selected for one of their storyteller interviews. So it's really fun. Okay, our next episode next week, we should be back to normal around here minimum normal being a relative term with me. But our next episode is going to be focusing on Lilly, Eli Lilly announced almost two years ago now that they the makers of human log are getting into the pump and pen business. So we will talk to them about how they're progressing on this connected system. It's a smart system and they are partnering recently announced with dex calm, so we will be talking to them about the progress they've made and what it means for the industry. That will be next Tuesday. Okay, I'm Stacey Simms. Until then, be kind to yourself.   Diabetes connections is a production of Stacey Sims media. Benny  38:02 All Rights Reserved all wrongs avenged   Transcribed by https://otter.aid by https://otter.ai  

Welcome!   We are going to hit a number of topics today from the world of Technology. Primaries and Caucuses are underway and with that always comes the topic of technology and security and it is no different this year.  Apps are being developed and brought to market without being fully tested.  Extensions are being created that have ulterior purposes and are being downloaded by thousands and even more, on Tech Talk With Craig Peterson today on WGAN.  It is a busy show -- so stay tuned. For more tech tips, news, and updates visit - CraigPeterson.com --- Related Articles: Four States Use A Flaw Filled Mobile Voting App  Iranian Hackers Exploit VPNs Worldwide IT Disaster Recovery/Business Continuity Exacerbated by Coronavirus  Be Careful of Extensions on Chrome - Many found to Upload Your Private Data.  Sharp Increase in Exposed Records by Third-Party Applications Automotive Apps originally designed for Personal Owners cause headaches for rental agencies. 1.77 Billion  - That is how much Businesses lost last year to Business Email Compromises  Encrypted Communications for the Masses --- Automated Machine Generated Transcript: Hey, welcome, everybody. Craig Peterson here on WGAN. And we're live on Facebook. And we, of course, can be found over my website as well Craig Peterson, calm. We got a lot of topics for today's show. But we're going to start with the one that is really on everybody's minds right now is we see more of these primary elections beginning to come up, and we see problems. Well, I don't know, or are they problems or features? I guess they are problems with some of the election technology that has been used over in Iowa. New Hampshire's technology was rather straightforward as the Secretary of State in New Hampshire says, and it's hard to hack a pencil, although they're not using pencils. In New Hampshire. They are using felt pens, which are hard to hack as well. And these cards can like the cardboard that you would have in the back of a shirt when you purchase it. It's that type of cardboard that is not shiny or glossy, and then it goes through an optical reader that scans the ballot and places it in the bottom of that machine. An election official stands there to make sure that the balance legitimate. That you are not trying to stuff the ballot box, and that machine counts your vote. Now the unfortunate thing is those machines are kind of old in most states, some of them, I think maybe all of them are still running Windows XP, but there's no easy way to get it the operating system. It's never connected to a network. Even though some of these machines that have been examined and have patch levels zero or in other words, no patches of Windows XP, which is quite surprising when you get down to it. That is a big problem in many many cases. In New Hampshire, the primary went pretty well. Of course this weekend, the next one coming up, which is in Nevada. The Nevada caucuses. I don't know what to believe anymore because I've heard both sides of this. One that voting in Nevada is using the same technology that was used over in Iowa, which to me would be just a shocker and a whole big dismayed because it was just so terrible. As I've said on the radio before, in fact, this week when I was on with Ken and Matt, I think it was, might have been with Jim, I'm trying to remember who it was, which show. I pointed out how in when we're looking at some of this technology, we all well, not all of us, but some of us love the latest greatest technology. I'm one of those guys that like to stick with something that I know works and explore current technologies and newer things. But so many times we get just bamboozled as taxpayers because the people that are in control of the purse strings, they like the latest coolest stuff. They buy equipment from people they know hence the app and iOS. Former Hillary Clinton staffers ran the company chosen for use in Iowa, and I don't know how much vetting they did. We do know that the code wasn't checked. Homeland Security had offered. We also had offers coming in from Federal Investigation Bureaus and from several security companies saying, Hey, listen, we'd be glad to have a look at this. It was all closed source. It wasn't open-source where you can have a look at that software and say, yes, indeed, everything's legit. That is excellent software. People can find bugs in it. If they find a bug, they can report it, and it can get fixed, right? There are so many different things that they could have done when we're talking about trying to make this secure. I see Mary just joined us here on the Facebook Live and which is cool. She and I have worked several elections in the pas,t and we've been monitoring them. I have a son that's been one of these election officials. You know, part-time people that get pulled in to watch the voter checklist and things in New Hampshire, you have to have an ID to vote, which is weird, you know. I liked the way we did it here, Maine's doing the same thing. Most New England states are in fact as northern New England are doing the same thing where we have a felt pen, we have a piece of paper, we mark it down on that piece of paper, and we can then count it later on. If there's a problem, right? You can just go to that paper that sits in the closet, pull out the stack, bring it with you. And once you've done that, you can have a bunch of people sit around and think about Florida 20 years ago and what happened there with the hanging chads. They at least had a physical card they could look at although you know pregnant chats, hanging chads got to be quite the mess. So now we're getting concerned because of this new voting app that's out there. It's called Votz. V-O-T-Z is how they spell it. It's not the same one that was used the caucuses in Iowa. The app that the Democratic Party was using was trying to take the tabulations that were made by the people who were at all of these different precincts and figure out what the vote tallies were and then supposedly put it into the app and it gets sent up. This vote app that we're talking about right now goes a few steps beyond that. They want military personnel, and people are overseas to use it when they can't necessarily vote when they want to vote. It's, you know, panacea, maybe it's something we can get to in someday, but four states are going to use it this year. It has not undergone the trials that really should have gone down. And it's using a buzzword that I think got people's attention. And they're saying, Oh yeah, this is going to be safe because it's using this buzzword called blockchain technology. Blockchain technology is what used behind various cryptocurrencies, like Bitcoin and some of the others, to help secure the transaction. So the whole log is it signed each record inside the register is signed. Just because it has blockchain doesn't mean it's secure and doesn't make it properly designed. I've got a quote here in this article from MIT, is computer science artificial intelligence lab saying the whole thing is sloppy. It looks sloppy. It's in Georgetown Law. It's awe-inspiring. They were able to find such a pervasive set of vulnerabilities, said Matt Blaze and election security expert and computer science professor at Georgetown Law School. But we should also remember it's ultimately unsurprising that they would be able to do so because of every expert has warned against Internet voting as being vulnerable to flaws exactly like this goes on. The University of Michigan here Alex Halderman, saying that it makes vote seemed like a sham. So it is a sham. I think I think it's a real problem. But we're going to do it anyways and four states, including West Virginia, this year is going to be a mass. We've already seen what happened in Iowa. We saw excellent voting happen in New Hampshire. We're not sure what's happening this weekend in Nevada, then Super Tuesday is right on the heels. Some of these states are using these voting apps. Some of them are using the apps used in caucuses. I think thank goodness there aren't very many caucuses in the country. And we'll see, but one thing is guaranteed, and that is it will be quite the debacle. It is going to end up being a problem for everybody involved because they didn't vet this technology. Now, I reported on this a couple of weeks ago, this $10 million grant set aside by the Department of Defense grant, ultimately, and it was to design a voting machine that would be secure. A voting machine that we could trust. I think that's just wonderful. It hasn't really been tested yet. They brought it last year to one of these conferences like Black Hat and Defcon. They brought it out there. Every year there is a voting machine village where they have all kinds of voting machines there. They are asking people to go ahead and try and hack into the voting machines. We had a 15-year old that was able to hack a voting machine right there, and they compromised every voting machine except for the device under development on this $10 million contract. Now, that might seem impressive, and that might be kind of encouraging to some of us. I think it kind of is in some ways. However, the reason they did not hack it was it didn't work. They were not able to get it online and did not get it online until Sunday, which was the last day of the conference. And so no one got to test it out. But that was last year. Let's get them a little real a little bit under their belt, a little water under that bridge sometime, and they will be able to do it. And you know, I think they'll be able to do it ultimately, but I still will be the biggest proponent of a pencil and a piece of paper or a felt tip pen. The software, By the way, those votes VOATz software is being used in Denver, parts of Oregon, Utah and Washington State, we'll see what happens. West Virginia, as I said, is going to use it. But for disabled voters, the federal government requires all states to have electronic voting machines that can be used by disabled voters. I know here where I live in New Hampshire, we have a thing I don't know they might have passed. Now they're kind of getting old. Twins, twin women, and one of them was pretty much deaf, and the other one was pretty much blind. So they were able to help each other out in a massive way, which is kind of cool and get right down to it. But what they did is they kind of both helped each other to vote, but we all have in every precinct people who are there who can help people with disabilities. I don't like this requirement to have electronic voting machines. But the MIT researchers, these other researchers all agree with me. I'm very concerned about the Android phone and Android as a platform for people to use. I don't know if you are if you're using Android, you know, I'm always saying use iPhones much, much more secure. But I also am not looking at an iOS as being the problem. Cure-all for some of the voting machines. Anyhow, we are live on Facebook, as I'm putting the show together and shout out to everybody who is on there and asking questions. I appreciate it. And I will go back in and answer questions for anybody a little bit later on who has them, and I want you to stick around. I will be back here after the commercial break. We're going to be talking more about the latest in technology. We're going to be getting into these Iranian hackers that have been hacking VPN. If you think your VPN is safe. We've got another thing coming. So we're going to shut this one down. And we will be right back. Thanks for joining us, of course, Craig Peterson dot com. Hello, everybody. Welcome back. Craig Peterson here on WGAN and affiliates. You'll find me online at Craig peterson.com. And, of course, online at Facebook. I'm doing this Live on Facebook, and also out at YouTube. And we're going to talk right now about VPN. So hopefully, you have some understanding of them. But some exciting statistics came up this week from our friends in government. The FBI has been warning us a lot lately about what's been happening over in Iran what they've been doing, and we don't have kinetic war. In other words, we're not shooting at each other, which is a good thing, right? But Iranian hackers have been right at the forefront of trying to hack into our systems, and they've been relatively successful. I have a few clients that are in the defense industry, because we do, of course, the higher security stuff, right. And they have been under constant attack from Iran for about six, eight weeks now ever since the last little tussle with Iran might have been longer than that. And we're seeing sustained efforts to hack into them. Well, now we're getting a report from our friends over at ZD net here about Iranian hackers targeting these VPN services. So I thought I'd start by kind of explaining to everybody a little bit more about VPN services, what they are, what they offer. And because I'm hearing ads about this all the time, and frankly, it's driving me crazy, because the ads are telling me that Yeah, Craig you need a VPN because it's the only way you're going to be safe. It's the only way you're going to be secure in your day. You've got companies out there that used to be known for anti-virus, which of course nowadays we know antivirus software is zero percent effective against the latest hacks that are out there. So antivirus software companies are trying to figure out what's another way that we can make some money because people are starting to realize that this is a scam. And it's been a scam for a lot of years. You know, antivirus worked pretty well 15 years ago. It doesn't work at all today, as I just mentioned for the latest now malware nastiness that's out there. So some of these companies one that comes to mind. It was purchased not too long ago by another anti-malware company is running a lot of ads. They're saying this we need our VPN you need our credit watch. They've tied in, with one of these companies that watch your credit looking for transactions, it might be a bad guy, and I'm a little concerned because here's what usually is going on in the VPN industry. Running a good VPN is expensive. When you are using a VPN, all of your data, depending on what type of a VPN, how it's employed is encrypted from point to point. We're talking about the right ones and not those that you hear the ads for when you're using those types of VPNs. Your data is transmitted up to the VPN service provider. Then once it gets there, it is sent out to the internet. So let's say you're trying to go to my site, Craig Peterson, dot com. If you're using a VPN, your web browser is going to ask the VPN server Hey, can I get the Craig Peterson dot com? What's the best way to do it? How can I get there, and the VPN server will say Hold on a second. I'll get that page for you. Then the VPN server goes out to Craig Peterson dot com gets the page and sends it back to you. Now, that would be a caching or proxy VPN server. And some of them will just pass packets through. But the big concern I have is twofold. One of them is this whole Iran thing, and we'll get into that in just a minute. Because it isn't only Iran. But the other one remembers if something is free, or if it's inexpensive, who's the product? You the product! And since you're the product, what do you think they're making money off of selling your personal information, that's how they make their money. And that is a big problem as far as I'm concerned. So what some of these VPN services are doing is they are tracking you online. Some of them go the next step, and they're actually acting as full proxies, and they are sometimes acting as a man in the middle attacks. They're injecting things into your data stream that you weren't expecting. So where you think you're getting the VPN to have some security, and to have some privacy. Some of these VPN services are the exact opposite. They are reducing your privacy because what they're doing now is taking your data and selling it to the highest bidder that's out there, right. So I think that's a problem. And if you think it's a problem, maybe you shouldn't use some of these cheap VPN services. And I haven't gotten any I actually like, okay, I've heard advertisements on these radio stations, my shows airing on and I've checked them out, and I'm not comfortable with any of them. And the only VPNs I use or VPNs that I run, but remember, your data still has to hit the internet at some point. Remember, you're using one of these VPN services. versus your data is going to the VPN service provider. And at that point, it hits the internet. So it's now out on the internet. Well, if you're trying to make sure your data doesn't get on the internet, and people aren't hacking you, you've lost because your information does have to get to the internet. How are Internet Service Providers supposed to get to your bank? How are they supposed to get to my website? How did they suppose to get to Facebook or Google or YouTube? They have to go over the whole internet as well. If you're using one of these services, and they're going out to the internet. What do you think is a bigger target you at home, using the internet via your cable company or your telco or maybe your smart device. Is that one device a big target, or do you think that perhaps its the VPN service providers that are the bigger target, right? I'm not sure I need an answer because it's kind of a rhetorical question. The most significant marks out there when it comes to VPNs are these VPN service providers. And we're seeing warnings out there right now that Iranian hackers have targeted pulse secure, which has VPN software that they sell to businesses, shown to be insecure. Pulse Secure for the net. Another example of one of these security companies, right that has a VPN service, Palo Alto Networks, a company I have never used and never recommended either. I haven't recommended any of these companies to anybody ever. We've gone up against Palo Alto Networks in some proposals and contracts and, and they won them because of all the whiz-bang, not because they were the best of the safest, and so So there you go, Paul secure Fortinet, Palo Alto, and Citrix VPN are now being used to provide a back door into larger companies. So if you're a business person, I'm going to put these right now into this channel so that you can look it up for you or business and seeing and write this in as a comment over here in the Facebook Live that you can find online. Yes, go to Craig Peterson, calm slash Facebook. It'll take you to my Facebook channel. But there's the list of them. It is from an article that's out there on ZDnet. I think they have been publishing some great information lately. I've been using them in a number of my alerts that I send out as part of my Saturday morning emails. But some of these attacks have happened according to this firm called clear sky that Iranian hackers have targeted companies. From the IT telecommunications, oil, gas, aviation government and security sectors, why because that's where all the real money is. The particular report is dispelling frankly, the notion that it's their Russian and Chinese hackers or maybe North Korean because the Iranian hackers don't know what they're doing right. I've heard that before all Iran, don't worry about it. They know what they're doing. When in fact, yes, within hours of being disclosed, the Iranian hackers were right in there. It's terrifying. So keep an eye out. I look. Again, online at Craig Peterson, calm you'll find this article, and a whole lot more. Make sure you ask your IT department if you're using any of these VPN services or software. And by the way, in most of these cases, you can get patches to fix it. When we come back. We're going to be talking about Coronavirus and the new challenges right here on WGAN. Hey, welcome back Craig Peterson here WGAN and online at Craig Peterson dot com, of course, on Facebook as well. I am live on Facebook, and you can ask questions there you can watch this whole show as it unfurls, and you will find me there. You can ask questions almost anytime. We try and keep you up to date on what is happening out there in the world of technology. Well, you might not have thought of coronavirus as anything more than just a piece of nastiness, right. The virus I know some people are saying well you know we haven't had as many deaths from the Coronavirus, also known as covin-19. I was trying to remember the name little earlier. We haven't had as many deaths from that as we have from our regular flu virus every year. Right now is the peak of flu season in the northeast and Anyways, and in many parts of the country, and what is there to worry about, right? Is it going to hit us? It seems to be slowing down. We don't have a whole lot of information from our socialist friends in China. Like most socialist governments, they play things very close to the chest. They don't want people to know what's happening, including their citizens. But we have some new fears now, and this is a great little article that I have found over on dark reading. It's pointing out some of the security challenges that we're facing, because of the whole Coronavirus thing. Everybody's heard about it, everybody's scared of it. And when you get right down to it, you're watching me right now listening to me talking about the Coronavirus because it is an exciting thing to understand. The CDC has not only maps of where the Coronaviruses hitting right now, but the CDC also has information about general flu viruses this time of year. There are outbreaks of different diseases, what's happening where CDC.gov now I've seen some fake stuff like CDC, dash gov.org, just all kinds of fake sites. With phishing, we've got to make sure that all of our employees, family, friends, know not to click on any of those links. Don't click on them. However, people do and when you click on them, who knows what's going to happen, you might be downloading malware, you might just be confirming this is a valid email address for more and future spamming, right there might be a lot of different things that it can do to you. Don't do that. The next one I think that that's very interesting is something most businesses have not addressed. What would happen if maybe covid-19, or something else, actually becomes a pandemic? What if it is not even a pandemic. What if you have an office with five or ten people in it and everybody comes down with the flu or cold? At the same time? Have you prepared for a business continuity challenge? And it isn't just what might happen if you're sick. It might also be a little bit further than that. What might happen if the business burns down? Or there's flooding, or no one can get into the office for a day or two because of some natural disaster? Maybe, it's just a really nasty ice storm like we had here? What a decade ago, where there were portions of New England that had no power for six weeks, in the middle of winter. That's a very, very big deal. What would your business do? Most people will haven't had a good hard look at business continuity, just in general, although we really should. And when we've got the cyber attackers coming after us, it also brings to mind what would happen if they got through, and let's say it was a version of ransomware that encrypted all of your data or deleted all of your data and demanded a ransom. Are you going to be able to handle that? Right? It's a big question. Will you be able to continue with your IT people, whether they're outsourced or in-house? How about your security operations people? It could be a huge problem. Let's move it up-scale because I know we've got a lot of people listening, who have more substantial companies. Maybe a 200 person company, perhaps something more prominent and it would be interesting to know you can just drop it in the channel like to know a little bit. But if you've got to hundred people working in one building and it's a contagious virus that's getting spread, the odds are pretty darn good, that 10 to 15% of your workforce is going to get nailed with that bug. Okay. Here's an example from the article. If it's by the way, if it's something that might be pandemic, there's an excellent chance the government's going to quarantine everybody anyways, whether the people get sick or not. Okay, and what's that going to do to your business? It is a consultant over Accenture working in Mexico City during the h1 in one virus spread ten years ago. They were saying that the current quarantine protocols are 14 days. So think about that. What happens if your business if your employees are out for 14 days if you've got a large outsource facility. Your security management, any facility, with a large number of people and you probably don't want to bring 100 people together and put them in a small room unless you-yourself have evidence that none of them have been affected. The second part of the challenges they may not be able to get there even want to get there. Now, this is the business continuity side. Can your business continue if there is a spread of these types of diseases, this could be huge? Some Indian companies have reported, according to dark reading, they've reported disruptions because of stoppages and shipments from China. They've got 45,000 Plus Now I don't know what the number is confirmed infections over 1000 deaths. So if you part of your supply chain now is affected, in this case with the Covid-19. Of course, most businesses are worried about the supply chain from China. There's supply chain manufacturing the low-cost components from China to Indonesia and all kinds of places in Southeast Asia what happens if that goes away too? If you have parts being made anywhere in the world, keep in mind that businesses are starting to move if they haven't already. Then with all of the phishing that's going on, It can get to be a very big problem. Proof point and Cisco Talos have reported messages purporting to provide tips for virus protection. They appeared to be sent not only by official government organizations but by the own businesses itself, upper management. So there's an example of spearfishing going after a specific company, and the messages get used to stealing credentials drop malware like mo tap, and in lures specifically targeting manufacturing and shipping industries. The nano core remote access software, these are back doors, like the kind I've talked about on the show that we have found in business and that is before backdoors get put in there by China or that Iran now has become a big player in all of this. So very, very big problems. Hey, if you have joined me on Facebook for the Facebook Live Welcome, welcome. I appreciate the comments, like seeing the thumbs up, so please do give that to me. Otherwise, you can find me online at Craig Peterson dot com. I post all of everything we talked about every week, right there Craig Peterson dot com and I started sharing videos and, and other things as well on YouTube and a little bit more on Facebook. When we come back after the break, we've got more to discuss. Next up. We're going to talk about these 500 Chrome extensions that have been secretly uploading people's information. How's that for a scary thing? So stick around because we'll be right back. If you are on Facebook Live. We're going to end this Facebook Live and start another one with our new topic in about five minutes on the radio. We'll be back even quicker than that. So stick around. Hold on one sec. Here we go, everybody. Welcome. Welcome Craig Peterson here on WGAN and elsewhere. Of course, also on Facebook, Facebook live is where you'll find me there. Just go to Craig Peterson dot com slash Facebook. You can sign up for my weekly newsletter, where I make sure you have all of the latest news, everything that you need to know. And right now we're going to talk about everybody's favorite browser while except for mine. One of the companies that we use goes by the name of Duo and what they have recently found out about our friends over at Google and Chrome. If you are a big follower of mine, and you've attended some of my pop-up training, I do quite a few of them. Those are always free and, and I have some tutorials as well. I talk a lot about extensions because there are quite several extensions that can be fantastic. And I use them all of the time. If I were to bring up my browser here, you would see a whole bunch of extensions that I use continually. I use them to block certain advertising types, and I use them to prevent various kinds of malware. I have some extensions that use artificial intelligence to figure out what is this page trying to do? Because we've got things like pop-unders, where it opened something up, and it has little timer was saved for an hour, and then it pops up to this big scary message that you need to update windows or update something now Because it's out of date, and there are hackers out there that are trying to get you. And that's called, by the way, scareware. But it comes through your browser, and you have no idea. So some of these extensions that I use are specifically designed to look at the source code on the page, look at not just the HTML, obviously, but look at the JavaScript or so much stuff is hidden. So it pulls in all these pieces of JavaScript. Usually, they're removed in from multiple sites and assembles them has a look at them, and will even change them based on what it finds. Now, those are beneficial extensions. Then on the other side, there are these toolbar extensions. I don't know if you've used these before, man, these used to be all of the rages, and I still see them installed in people's computers. And these toolbar extensions give you a little bit of extra something sooner, just a call right in These extensions going to track you when you're online and shopping and tell you where the best deal is? Well, yeah, it's following you, right? It knows that you're on a shopping site because you give that extension access to all of your browsing history. Then it knows what you're looking at up the site and knows what you are searching. Because so many of these extensions come with their little search bar up top right. Yahoo was one of the big guys out there in this browser bar extension business. And every last one of them at the very least, despite you. Now, that's bad, right that it's bad enough. But now we're looking at this same mo wait a minute here. We have now uncovered 500 Chrome extensions that have been secretly uploading the private data from millions of users. Huge deal. An article in Ars Technica, if you are over on the Facebook Live, you'll see the article, right there has a direct link to it. But this is very bad. It was just discovered on Thursday here. It's been just about just over a week. And we found out from these guys, that what had happened is that these website extensions had more than 1.7 million installations. It was an independent researcher who worked with Cisco's own Duo Security. And they found all of these things. They then reported it privately to Google and the researchers and found 71. Google looked at what the researchers had seen, and how those extensions were coded up and how they we're behaving. Then Google found an additional 430 extensions. And Google has removed all known extensions that were doing this. So that's the right side of it. But that's the known extensions. Those are the extensions that we're doing something that looks suspicious that Google and the security researchers could identify. In this case, reported here, the Chrome extension creators and specifically made extensions that obfuscated the underlying advertising functionality from users. Now it did say advertising in this quote because here's another thing that they do. If you visit a website, and you have an extension installed, that has access to the websites that you're visiting, here's what they've been doing. They look for ads from their customers, so you've got a bad guy, Inc. Okay. And then what better guy he does is he goes out and says, Hey, listen, I can get you 1000 collects of thousand new views of your page, just pay me up. Then what they'll do is they will play some ads for you. These are pay-per-click ads. Every time someone clicks on an ad, they have to pay, right, and some of these ads are cheap at five cents. You don't see that too much anymore. Some of them are $500 for a single click. That money then goes to Google, who then shares it with whoever had the website where the click originated. Okay, so it's a pretty lucrative business if you as a bad guy that could guarantee clicks on these expensive websites That is what they're doing with some of these extensions. They are watching the pages you're visiting to look for an ad from one of these sites that they get some money fro, but now they can have your browser click on the ad unbeknownst to you. Your browser now clicks on that ad. They make some money because they have the fake ads that are up so all kinds of nastiness. The other side of this is let's say the bad guys want their competitors to stop advertising online. Let's say they make cups, and I make this glass. Other companies out there that make a blue glass kind of like this. They find out what are the ads this other blue glass company is running. They have their little extensions out there. They hire these people that only extension to then clicks on the competitor's ads automatically for them. The competitor might have a five hundred dollar a day limit with Facebook ads, and all of a sudden now that five hundred whatever it is they're spending where they've put a cap on it, right? So whatever it is they're spending is being 100% wasted, because you don't even see the ad. There are so many ways that the bad guys are using these extensions. It is a maze of redirects, malware, and more. Some of these plugins will do Bitcoin mining or other types of blockchain cryptocurrency mining out there. Man, there's just all kinds of them hardcoded control servers, which by the way, I've got another tutorial coming out telling you how to stop your computer from going on to some of these command and control servers. And that's going to be phenomenal for you. So keep an eye out for that coming up in a couple of weeks. Many the redirections because they're using redirections, as well as part of this, go to ads for products or Macy's, Dell, Best Buy large volume of ad content, as many as 30 redirects, the deliberate concealment of most ads from end-users and the use of the ad redirect streams to send infected browsers to malware and phishing sites. It goes on the bottom line, beware of extensions, but I also want you to be aware of apps, right? What are the apps that you are using? What are those apps providing you with? Now I'm talking about apps that are on your smartphone or on your tablet, maybe some programs that are on your computers. Okay, they're out there? What are those apps Are those apps something that you need? Many of them spy on you, which is another dangerous thing. They're stealing your data. They're taking the information they're sending to the bad guys. Right? It just goes on and on. So make sure you don't do that it is dangerous stuff. All right, I am doing this radio show on Facebook Live. If you want to follow me on Facebook, it's easy enough to do Craig Peterson comm slash Facebook. And if you are not a Facebook fan, and there are a lot of reasons not to be a Facebook fan, then you can also see a lot of these videos up on YouTube. I do YouTube lives, as well. You'll find that at Craig Peterson comm slash YouTube. And of course, you're listening on the radio, and you're going to find me on pretty much every streaming service that's out there. So I want to quickly ask a question - which browser do you use? If I say create a poll? What's going to happen here? Oh, there it is. I'm going to publish it right now. I see. Okay. All right. So far it's showing up. I should have clicked this a little bit earlier. So Facebook Live, you have a poll. Do you prefer Google Chrome, Firefox, Microsoft Edge, or Opera? And I personally use Firefox and Opera, Google Chrome and edge I don't trust particular Google Chrome, however, There are times when you have to use one of those two browsers, because your company might be using a website that's specifically programmed to only work with that particular browser. There. There might be other reasons, but let me know. Click on it there. If you are not watching me on facebook right now Facebook Live, go ahead and answer that poll. I'd really like to know or just drop me an email me at Craig Peterson calm. Let me know what your favorite browser is and why. And make sure that you delete every extension you don't need. Every app you don't use and don't need. We've got to cut back because it just presents such a broad attack surface to the bad guys. All right. Okay, so let's see end of this segment. When we come back, we of course, have a whole lot more to talk about. We're going to talk about third party breaches, what's been happening. It's increased sharply in 2019. If you are a business person, this is for you. Your listening to Craig Peterson WGAN and online at Craig Peterson dot com hello everybody welcome back Craig Peterson here on WGAN or also on Facebook Live if you have any questions, by all means drop them right here into the channel can always ask me a question to online anytime. Just email me and he had Craig Peterson calm more than happy to respond. You might have to have a little bit of patients I do try and get back ASAP. But if someone or my staff is not noticing or final notice Don't feel bad. It's not as though we hate you. But we do try and answer every question that comes our way just me at Craig peterson.com. We're going to talk right now about third party risks whether you are a small business or a little large business, this is a huge deal. very huge deal. And it's also a huge deal if you are an individual, because you are dealing with everything from Cloud services through a milk delivery company. All of these are third party services provided by third party companies. And many of them have information about us. And I've heard from so many businesses lately, that are now required under the new federal standards, the CMC standards, that they don't think that they really apply to them because they're not a primary government contractor. It's they don't have a whole lot or any personally identifiable information. You know, why? Why would you come after me? I just don't matter in the whole big scheme of things. So it's not something that I should have to worry about. When the law is clear, they do have to worry about it, but they're still not worried about it. And I think the biggest reason is because people just don't understand the risks involved. You're using Google spreadsheets, for instance, Google docs for me, you know, Microsoft Word replacement. And, and Google also has kind of a PowerPoint thing called Google Sheets, I think it is, or slides, Google Slides that you can use in order to put the presentation together. And even to show a presentation. It's, it's really rather cool stuff all the way around. But this is an example of a third party vendor. We already know that Google is looking at all of those documents and trying to figure out what a can use from that and in order to sell us stuff, right or do seller information to third parties. And in that's obviously a bit of an issue. But when we're talking about these smaller businesses that might be selling to Another government contractor that might be selling to Raytheon who's selling to the Department of Defense, just as an example. They wonder, why does it matter? That I'm really secure, because I'm making something that's completely passive. It's not as though I'm making the software that controls a missile in flight. Right? It is not doing any of those sort of things. So why should it matter? And I think that it's a good question, but here's why it matters. There were some huge hacks of the Department of Defense last year, and those hacks a good 50% of them came from their vendors. We're talking about a third party risk. That third party that vendor you're using, whether it's Google Docs and Dr. Mike, you might be using a version of Dropbox as Just a regular end user version might be using an unsecured or improperly secured as your instance or Amazon Web Services instance. You could be using any of those types of things. And guess what's going to happen if you're using those. All of those people who have your data could be used as a way into your computer's think for a minute. We spoke earlier today about these 500 plus Google Chrome extensions that were leaking your data there, the data is actually being stolen by third parties because of those. If you have software installed that's being used to manage your supply chain, and that supply chain software is tied into this third party vendor. Your network is is is exposed Now you may have tried to tighten it down, I might be as tight as could possibly be. And there's no problem here. But if you're like an average business, none of that is true. None of that is true at all. All of your data is potentially accessible by the third party. So some interesting stats that came out. And I again, I have this up on my website. I will post let me post this right now here in the Facebook Live channel. Okay. It's in there now to you can see that right at the end of my comment. They're showing that there were about 43% of businesses this last year 44% were, in fact, attacked and hacked via third party breaches. So in other words, the bad guys did not come in directly This wasn't a phishing attack attack necessarily directly against them. This wasn't a ransomware attack directly against them. It was against a third party. So it was a vendor who might have had all of their customer information they might have had to how to manufacture certain things. It could be all kinds of different types of information. And that information was then used against them. That's a very big deal. Think about billing. Think about your, your employees and their paychecks, their w 210 99. Since you send out all of these things to target so we talked earlier about these VPN services that are right now huge, they're huge attack vector. Now this number is up by the way 35% over the last two years. The number of records exposed in the breaches skyrocketed. Almost 300% last year, the cost of the breaches have gone up substantially as well. And you're going to find all of this up on my website, Craig peterson.com. But that's huge. So 44% of all firms that were surveyed had experienced a significant data breach caused by third party vendor. And remember, these are firms that know that they were breached. So let's look at an IBM study. This IBM study says it takes an average of 197 days for a company to identify that they have had a data breach almost 200 days to even identify even know that they had a breach and another 69 days to contain it. Fat is inexcusable. In excuse inexcusable, it really is. You know, so many people have fallen through victim to vendors that say, hey, we've got the solution for you Don't worry about it. This is this is going to be so easy, not a big deal. We'll take care of it for you and they don't that's the only explanation I can come up with here. For what 265 ish days, from the time a breach occurs to the time that they've contained it. 265 days, that's two thirds of a year. Now I believe me I'm this is not I'm not trying to sell you our services here. Okay. If you want to buy him great. I just want to let you guys know 250 days on average to contain it with what we do on average. It is this from this. From the time it happens to the time is discovered to the time it's contain. So from the very beginning of a breach to the time it's contained. With us, it's typically six hours. That's why I say this is in excusable, if you're a company with 200 employees with 1000 employees, and you're not using the right stuff. Whose fault is it? And I gotta tell you another number that I've seen before when when I was one of the FBI infragard programs that I ran, I had an expert on, and he was talking about breaches, and you know how many months it takes to discover and then to try and close the hole. If you take less than 30 days to stop the breach, on average, you save $1 million, a million dollars. So think about that when you're thinking about the cost of security. If you are slightly bigger company, you have a few hundred employees up into thousands of employees. And you can shave that whole massive number of 250 days, down to 30 days or less, you've saved yourselves a million bucks. So the million dollars that you might spend on security and by the way, it takes you quite a bit to spend a million dollars to even to get the kind of security I was just talking about, with the six hour to recovery stuff. A million bucks goes a long way now and that's plus, by the way, you know, all of your other costs, the loss of reputation that you get, so you're going to lose clients, you're not going to pick them up, you're not gonna be able to charge as much as you could before. People aren't going to trust you. All this is happening because of these third party breaches. So keep that in mind next time. You are auditing your business, right? You've got auditors and think about all of the people downstream from you who maybe you should be paying some attention to, because they have data that you might find to be sensitive. They might be used as a conduit to break into your systems as well as have their systems breached. Okay. So I know many companies now that are, are auditing their providers, their upstream downstream partners, for very, very good reason. So if you want to find out more, let me know just email me at Craig peterson.com. Be glad to punch in the right direction. You can find this particular order article over and dark reading and it's written by Jay v. JOHN, and you can find it as well at Craig Peterson calm Of course I post all of that stuff online. And if you have my newsletter, you get that Every Saturday morning, links to it there too. So stick around. We'll be right back. We got a lot more to talk about here. In this last hour of the show. We're going to talk about a rental car risk you might not be aware of. So stick around. Hey, welcome back. Craig Peterson here WGAN and and elsewhere. We are live on Facebook Live as well. out on YouTube. You can find me and Craig Peterson calm. And of course, listen to my podcasts on pretty much any platform out there. podcast platforms from one platform. I just been doing this for too long. I guess this is the problem. They've all found me. Oh no. So this is a great little article from our friends over at Ars Technica. I don't know if you're familiar with it. It's one of those websites that I follow fairly closely because they have so many great things out there. But this one is talking about the rental cars and I want you to think about cars for a moment because well, I like cars. Hopefully you do too. But what are the problems that we're seeing today that are actually caused by this latest, newest, most wonderful technology? And there are a lot of them frankly. And some of them have to do shoes me with our phones, right? We plug our phones into the cars, the cars will automatically say, Okay, I want the contacts, people will just blindly say okay, go ahead and upload the contacts. And all of your contacts are uploaded, and now the car has them and the next driver comes in I love doing this comes into the car and scrolls through all of the phones and sees all of the contacts people have their home addresses in their status home. So you just look up home on the on the cars GPS and and just some poor fool who uploaded all of his contacts into the car, right use seen that before a music downloads, just all kinds of stuff. So I'm always careful, I never let the car upload my contacts you were probably kind of conscious about that as well. If you're not making sure that that doesn't happen right to the car doesn't have your contacts. You You might also do what I do, which is after I'm done with the car, I go into the Bluetooth settings and disconnect my phone or with Apple Car Play. I make sure my phone is disconnected. Excuse me. So those are all things I think that most people would know about and think about. Well, here's the problem that we're starting to see today. These cars are getting smarter and smarter and have more and more features on them, don't they? So there there's been some research here. Ars Technica did a little dive into it as well. And this Dan Goodin ended up writing an article about This where he found that the previous driver to his car could start and stop the engine lock and unlock the doors and track the location of the vehicle because you remember again these cars are designed by my guys right and gals obviously but by guys who are not thinking about all of the use cases for the car you know man I had such a fight of one of my my eldest sons who works with me he's he's one of the employees and works with a company that is fire jumpers certified for not fire jumper as in the fire department, although he does have a firefighting certificate including tight spaces on ships, but he's a fire jumper for security when something bad happens. Or please, please have us design the network before something bad happens. He gets some old us all of those. Well. We have all of Our clients emails run through a set of high end filters provided by Cisco. So all of the emails coming in our filters, look at it, and they are phenomenal. They have cut my email, I was 5000 emails a day. And now I'm down to about 100 hundred and 50 emails a day just by the Cisco filters. So and by the way, I have, I think, in the last year had maybe one false positive, maybe one it's just these things are so smart the way they work, right? They're not just looking for keywords or other things are really looking at behavior. Because Cisco sees so much of the internet, right? Cisco runs the internet backbone, but then they see so much of that traffic plus they see so much of the email traffic they can, they can just be phenomenal. So we have all of our customers emails running through our data center and it's properly secure. Of course, and running through these special Cisco email filters. And then we take those emails and we forward them on to our customers mail servers. Well, one of the services that is used by quite a few of our customers, because it's inexpensive, relatively speaking, is the Microsoft Office 365. Now, there's a lot of levels of old 3065. It's their cloud services, right? But that's cloud is in the cloud, right? And we're not going to get into that right now. But they have a whole bunch of services. And Microsoft had an internal grey list against our Cisco email host that was doing all of the filtering. And Microsoft, you know, they said, Well, you know, we can figure it out. It took us 24 hours to escalate it to people who knew what they were even talking about. We showed them their own tech article on this problem. them inside Microsoft with Office 365. And said, Here's your problem. You guys know about it, you have defined it, here it is. And yet, you know, they they start you with the people that say is a computer powered on type, right? Just so, so, so frustrating to me. Well, the problem here is that the Microsoft software did not consider all their software designers did not consider all of the uses usage cases. In this case, the Microsoft software people thought, Well, people using Office 365 they're just going to be real small businesses and they are going to have you know, dozen through 1000 email accounts maybe. And so the usage patterns are going to be consistent, etc, etc. That's not true in a case like us, where all of the emails coming in from all over the internet. To to us for all of our customers, including their deal D contractor customers, right? The people, the customers that have it are compliant, have PCI that have legal compliance issues, accounting compliance issues, right. So they all come to us where they are heavily heavily filtered. And then therefore it on to Microsoft. Well, that's not a usage case they thought of when they design the software. So we were fighting with them. We had thousands of messages queued up So the good news is, we didn't lose any of the email. We kept it our systems noticed right away that Microsoft was misbehaving, which they do frequently. And and then we got on the horn with Microsoft, we went the level two right away and then level three No, I'm air quoting levels two and three, because they're not real levels two and three, not by our standards. By the time you get to level three or somebody like me that or Steve, the fire jumper, somebody that really knows What's going on? Right? That's not the case of Microsoft. Anyhow, the problem in Ars Technica is found here is that these cars are designed with the idea that there is a single owner. Now there might be multiple drivers to the vehicle, but there's a single owner, right? She owns the Mustang. She drives it, but you know, the old man drives every once in a while the kids might drive it once in a while as well. Well, in this case, they looked at a Ford Explorer. And October last year, they put an article in about a guy that was able to remotely start, stop, lock, unlock and track a Ford Explorer that he had rented and returned five months earlier. And they're saying now something almost identical has happened again to the same enterprise rental car customers. customer. Four days after returning a Ford Mustang, the Ford pass app installed on the phone continues to give them control of the car. So here we have a usage case where the car is being rented, it was not part of the original design considerations. And the rental car company, in this case enterprise, and maybe it's just one unit of enterprise, I don't know. But enterprise is not properly clearing or resetting, whatever they have to do to that car after somebody has rented it. So it's a real problem. And it's something we need to be cautious of. Because it's, it's not even something we can necessarily do anything about. But personally, I would go into the menu on the console on the control system, you know, the entertainment system, and I wipe out every phone that's in there, just so that something like this can happen to me, right? But that's what I would do and that's what I advise you to do as well. Okay, stick around. When we get back. We're going to talk about a new FBI report that's talking about what happened to this $1.7 billion right here. Stick around. Craig Peterson and WGAN and live on Facebook. Hey, welcome back everybody, Craig Peterson here WGAN and and elsewhere. Hopefully you're able to join me on facebook live this week and we spend some time talking about the articles and answering questions for everybody. And of course you'll find that online right now kind of all over the place, make sure you get my weekly newsletter. It'll keep you up to date on all the latest security topics and some of the cooler new technology out there that I think is or maybe isn't ready for prime time. Going to have a cool guests next week too. I I used to do a lot of guests. I had like a dozen a show back when I had a three hour show. But next week we're gonna talk with a buddy of mine Mine, who is actually fairly well known, he's written a book about sugar. And you probably know if you've been listening to me for a while, not all that long. But a while you know that I have been very conscious about my health and doing the intermittent fasting thing and stuff. And so we'll talk to him about what he has found. You might remember I did the Atkins thing some years ago, but we'll be talking with him a little bit about that, too. I'm sure next week, so Barry Friedman will be my guest. And I will probably be next week. We've got to figure out the calendars first. No, I hate it when that happens. Sorry about that little bit of a coughing fit. Okay, so let's get into the article right now. And this has to do with email compromise. Now we all have email accounts, right? You got them. I got them, whether they're on Google Shame on you, or if they are Microsoft Office 365. Okay, depends on which level you have. Or if you host them yourself, which is what we've been doing for decades now for ourselves and our clients. I like that because they have more control. I don't have the problems like we had with Microsoft this week with Office 365 for some of our clients. But when you have email, there's a certain type of exposure that you have. We talked earlier about this whole problem with the coven 19 with the corona virus, and how they're using it right now to get you to click on links and phishing attacks. click on links in SMS. Those are called smishing. To get you to do something that ultimately you shouldn't do because they're using it to download nastiness. And it can be nastiness in the form of ransomware he'd be nastiness in the form of software that being installed on your computer to use your computer's resources, maybe as part of a denial of service attack, maybe to attack other people and other computers that are out there, right? It's all pretty darn evil. Well, the FBI put together some numbers because there's this thing called a business email compromise. That's only part of the problem. Because it isn't just business email, that can be a problem here. It's also our personal emails. So we're finding on the personal side that people are getting emails that are again from bad guys, but what they're trying to do is get you to go a little bit further. So a lot of them for instance, are based around dating sites. So people looking for companionship, they might be out on one of these websites and and they meet somebody.g more coughing meet somebody and as they've met that person, they kind of go back and forth and how are you? Oh my we have so much in common and they're trying to scam you. That is a very, very big and prevalent thing right now. Because so many people are just trying to find somebody that they can love someone they can spend some time with. And enjoy company and you know how I get that pardon my French but this is a real tough time in the world. There's so many people that are so ostracize that are blocked off from other people that are just looking for something anything right? Doesn't have to be love. As I said it can just be companionship. So the FBI has been warning about that. And then we've got these business email attacks, that what's happening here is oftentimes it's spearfishing. They're going After the owner of a company, and and frankly some of these dating things are spearfishing, too, because they know that somebody who's a little bit older might have some money that they can get out. Yeah. And they'll ask you Hey listen, I my uncle cousin has this medical bill and and we really need the money can I get $10,000 from you and people, people are sending it in the business email account account. It's a little bit different. So here's another article from our friends over dark reading this up on my website as well. But it's same back in 2013 scams often started with the spoofing of a CEO or CFO his email account, fraudsters send emails appearing to come from these execs to convince employees to send wire transfers to fake accounts. Now we know that within the last six months, this has gone to the next level. We're there we are using computers to imitate the bosses voice and they've been able to take millions anyhow the article goes on. Since then business email compromise has evolved to include the compromise a personal and vendor emails, spoofed lawyer email account and request for W two data. Of course, taxis and everybody. This is a big one w two right now the IRS is warning about that. Attackers often target the real estate sector and or make requests for expensive gift cards. In 2019. The Internet crime center saw an increase in business email compromised complaints related to the diversion of payroll money. So the attackers send a fake email to human resources or payroll department requesting an update to a specific employees direct deposit information. This is really really big and you look at these numbers. We're talking about 1.7 billion in losses. That's absolutely huge amounts of money. The in 2019, they had a half a million complaints come in costing organizations three and a half billion dollars overall. That's up almost $3 billion from 2018. absolutely huge. So we have to be very, very careful. There are some reports out there email fraud and entity deception trends that are out there about the attackers what they're doing rise in hybrid attacks, which a victim receives an email making a request, and simultaneously receives a text message from a spoof number designed to seem to seem like the same person saying they just sent an email. It is highly targeted and also highly effective. So you got to be careful of all of this. We have to be careful of all of this and for business people, we have to be particularly careful about all of this government, government agencies. Did you see what happened with in Atlanta in the last year, how they got nailed multiple times. And it was ransomware. Getting in some of it was some business email compromises. We've had cities all over the country who have fallen victim to the business email compromise, and they have wire money to vendors that just don't exist, etc, etc. We have to be very careful. So how do you avoid this? First of all, don't send money to people that you really don't know. You know, you I'm thinking about those of us that are looking for companionship, friendship, maybe for a new lover, somebody that we can spend the rest of our lives with. Don't send them money really don't no matter how bad that sob story is. And then if we're business people be doubly careful. Verify everything via the phone. So the boss tells you that they need to move some money into another account. Call the boss you have their number, don't call the number in the email. If you are getting contact in HR from an employee's saying, hey, I want you to start direct deposited into my new account, here's the account number. Call back and verify it. Right That's always the case. You know, a police officer pulls you over the side of the road. You have a good chance that it's really police officer because they're an unmarked car. They have the blue lights going. They have a police officers uniform on. You just don't know even in that case. So be extra-extra cautious out there. Man. When we come back, we've got one more article for the day again, believe that it's gone so fast. We're going to talk about the most secure messaging app out there. Hi You can get it how you can use it. So stick around. You're listening to Craig Peterson and wg AN. And of course, Facebook Live in YouTube Live. Man, we're going overboard this week. Stick around because we'll be right back. Hey, welcome back, Craig Peters, Melanie or w g. N. and online Of course, we're doing a Facebook Live even as we speak, having a little fun there as the chuckles we're all about. Hey, I appreciate you guys joining me and I know that your time is valuable, and I don't want to waste one minute of it. So I'd love to get your feedback. What do you think of this show? What are the good parts, the bad parts? What do you want to see more of? What do you want to see less of let me know just email me and eat at Craig Peters. on.com. I'd really appreciate it and make sure that you are on my email list so that you get every week the latest in technology news. With a course in emphasis, as always from me on security, and what you can and should be doing for security in your home, and in your business, you know, I really focusing on business, because that's what I've been doing for so many years. You know, most businesses aren't in the cyber security business. And so they're trying to make their widgets provide their service, etc. And they're just left hanging when it comes to the security side cyber security. And I know that's true of you guys, too, who are in smaller businesses, even larger businesses and home users. But the answers the solutions are always the same, although you don't have as much money to spend so you're not going to be as well protected. Right? Do you also, hopefully don't have as many assets at risk. I know a lot of people who are high net worth individuals who come to me in order to get things secured, but as as a whole Most of the time is business Zilla. So I kind of aim at that. And then every month is well, we have a list of the top security vulnerabilities that there are patches out for telling you, hey, you need to update this software or that software. There's various vulnerabilities that you have to take care of immediately. Another coughing fit, man, hope this isn't assigned to something coming down with something. Here's the vulnerabilities you have to t

If you’re a Mom, you know that you can love your child unconditionally and still not like some of their behaviors. As Moms, we carry an extra load of Mom-guilt. I’m not sure where we got it. Maybe we all picked it up at Target by mistake. It seems to be a universal item we carry on our shoulders. We feel bad when we’re mad. (I rhymed). Right? Do you know who has an extra load of guilt? Foster parents. Adoptive parents. I’m not sure why. Maybe when we were signing all of those papers, we accidentally signed one for an extra bag of guilt with some fine print that said, I will always like this child no matter what he does. That’s just not realistic. In one day, I witnessed two foster Moms feeling guilty because they didn’t like their child that day. Grab a cup of coffee and join Kathleen and listen as she shares what to do with the dislike.

A warehouse disaster is a large concern for the bourbon industry, but some people in the community make jokes and laugh at the situation. Should this be considered normal? Heaven Hill phased out their 6 Year Bottled in Bond product that was a true bargain brand to many bourbon consumers and launched a very similar product with a 3X price increase. Was this a good move by Heaven Hill? Are they competing in a high price bracket? Did they just cannibalize their own products? Is this the first #KentuckySnub? We tackle all this and more on Bourbon Community Roundtable #34. Show Partners: Every batch Barrell Craft Spirits produces has a distinct flavor profile. They take pride in blending and preserving spirits for the people who enjoy them the most, you. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Check out Bourbon on the Banks in Frankfort, KY on August 24th. Visit BourbonontheBanks.org. Aged & Ore is running a special promotion on their new Travel Decanter. Get yours today at PursuitTravelDecanter.com. Receive $25 off your first order at Rackhouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week Ryan talks about launching a bourbon brand. Look for a new segment called Whiskey Quickie launching next week. Brian Harra’s Sazerac Brands v. Peristyle: Bourbon History Matters as a Matter of Law - https://brianhaaracom.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/haara-bourbon-history-matters-as-a-matter-of-law-ky-jeanrl-2019.pdf Jim Beam Warehouse Fire Heaven Hill 7-Year Bottled-in-Bond Was it the right move to discontinue 6-Year BIB and relaunch with 7-Year at a higher price point? Do you think this product competes with the Woodford and Knob Creek price point? Is Heaven Hill competing against themselves? Why wouldn't Heaven Hill launch in Kentucky on day one? How do you best support retailers that elevate prices for hard to find bottles? 0:00 My wife was like, I was like remember I got a podcast. She said ugh that's so annoying. 0:07 Didn't you just do one of those round tables and I'm like that was last month. 0:23 Hey everybody it is Episode 209 of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your host Kenny in the bourbon news cycle it moves quick. What's Trending one day is going to become pretty stale soon. And I'm sure many of you are like myself wanna bourbon warehouse collapses or when 45,000 barrels of bourbon go up in flames from a lightning strike at a gym be warehouse. We probably get a lot of messages in our inbox about it. And I kind of want to focus on this and say, where are we at today on the current situation. So on july fourth, the Woodford County Fire Department waited to extinguish the fire for a few days because as they said, there is less environmental 1:00 impact to allowing the ethanol just letting it continue to burn. Beam Suntory put out a press release saying that the barrels in the warehouse contain relatively young whiskey from the Jim Beam Asheville in the US, it will not impact the availability of the product to its customers. And they are going to be working with local state and federal agencies to conduct response operations. And now beyond just the whiskey, Jim Beam is looking at a $50 million loss. That would be the bourbon loss at around 45 million, with an estimated additional 5 million in the damages to the warehouses and the cleanup process. And that cleanup is going to be in response to a mass amount of bourbon that has entered the Ohio River after traveling more than 20 miles down the Kentucky River. And the Kentucky's division of Fish and Wildlife is already characterizing this bill as a severe fish kill. The officials are still continuing to assess the damage to the aquatic life. In a Facebook post on Monday, the Kentucky Energy and Environment cabinets 2:00 said that the department Fish and Wildlife Resources is on the river again, and they are continuing to assess the fish count killed and the results are continue to penned. They are also going to see dead and dying fish. People are using the Kentucky River in the area and they're going to start seeing and smelling the dead fish as well. Robert Francis, the manager of the emergency response team said that the bacteria in the water is going after the food source, which is the sugar and the alcohol so it ends up depleting the oxygen, the fish start to become distress and they eventually die. According to officials, the dead fish will decompose naturally with no harm to the river, so there's no plan to remove them, being Suntory is likely going to be handed a large fine once this comes to a close. If you've taken a drive in Bardstown, or Shively, Kentucky or really anywhere near a distillery or aging warehouses, you'll notice this sort of black fungus or film that grows on the side of rock houses and even find itself attached to road signs and surround 3:00 Holmes in 2007 when University of Toronto my colleges James Scott published an academic paper about the fungus, it pinned it on the whiskey industry. Dr. Scott discovered that this fungus which is he named but don't Yeah, after the man who first studied it in 1872 Anton but don't feeds on the ethanol vapor released by liquor as it ages. Since ethanol is denser than air, the evaporated Angel's share doesn't float up into the sky after all, but rather into the surrounding communities. In when it is airborne. Ethanol meets the slightest bit of moisture. It's going to be common because distilleries and towns are usually near those water sources. You get whiskey fungus all over the place. You can read more about this fungus and how it's plaguing neighboring towns from an article on but by Vice calm, which can be found in our show notes. This podcast, it's always been about education and our focus is how do we bring the biggest personalities behind bourbon to the forefront and get 4:00 listeners a chance to experience the hear directly from them. We never intended this podcast to be about Reiner. I am really what we think. And that's why we never did bourbon or whiskey reviews as a part of our format. However, over the years, people are continually asking us what we think of a particular bourbon. So we wanted to figure out a way to do just that without impacting our pretty much our schedule routine here. So next week, we are launching a new content stream that will be available through your current podcast subscription you're listening to right now, as well as YouTube and we're calling it whiskey quickie. as we did with the podcast. We researched the landscape of bourbon reviews on the Internet to see which format will be best for us, YouTube, it's a large segment and the reviews we watch went anywhere from five minutes upwards to almost an hour long. So we're setting off to make whiskey quickie unlike anything out there today. It's a whiskey review with no cutting and no editing and it will be 5:00 Done with a 62nd countdown timer. Sure it may sound rushed. But at first, these reviews are going to give you something else to listen to on Tuesdays while you wait for the usual Thursday podcast release. We're very excited to launch whiskey quickie. And the first episode will premiere on July 16. You can catch whiskey quickie right here on your existing podcast subscription. Or you can head over to YouTube and watch the video version. All right, I think I've talked enough. So let's get on with the bourbon Community Roundtable where we discuss the cultural implications of the Jim Beam fire as well as heaven hills seven year bottled in bond release. But before that, let's hear Joe from barrel bourbon. And then we've got a substitute for above the char with Ryan Cecil. 5:47 Hi, this is Joe Beatrice from barrell craft spirits. Every batch we produce has a distinct flavor profile. We take pride in blending and preserving spirits for the people who enjoy them the most, you. use our store locator to find a retail or a bar near you at barrellbourbon.com 6:02 I'm Ryan Cecil. Yep, that that third show loop. Fred's out of town and Portugal doing something really cool. So you have me this week, what I want to talk to you about is being in the whiskey business, and all the middlemen, and all the hands that are in your pocket. So when Kenny and I started a brand pursuit series, I had no idea how many hands and middlemen would be in our pockets, anywhere from ABC people, to the distributors, to the liquor store owners, to the lawyers, to the barrel brokers, to the label people to the cork people, to the glass people to every people in the world that gets their hand in our pocket, so we can bring someone some bourbon. But, you know, it's kind of frustrating. But then you think about it. And when I was on the phone with a distributor, his kids got in the car. And I was like, well wait a minute. This guy's a family has to pay for. Well, he deserves that. And then you start to 7:00 Thinking about the ABC person that's following your paperwork. And you're like, well, they have a family. I guess they deserve it too. And then you think about the liquor store, and the landlord, and all the people who just make everything happen. And then I'm like, Well, I guess they do deserve it. And so while it is very frustrating, and very 7:20 just greedy of me, selfishly, because I am a consumer, and I proprietor and creator of product that I want to bring the best possible product to my consumers at the best cost. But then, you know, there's a lot of people that were supporting along the way, and it kind of gives me good perspective about why things are the final price they are as they sit on the bar, and that's this week's above the char. Hope I didn't blow it. And we'll see you next time. 7:54 Welcome back to another episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon Kenny and I 8:00 Ryan here tonight on deep bourbon Community Roundtable number 34. This is where we talk about all the recent news, things have been happening inside the bourbon world and tonight is going to be it's gonna be light on topics, but it's going to be very, very heavy topic. So I'm kind of really excited to talk about this one. But before we jump into it, Ryan, what's been what's been new in your world recently? sweating a lot. It's hotter than hell, the humidity. Like, I think it's like our 12th or 13th day in a row 90 degrees, and it's like, Oh, God, but now it's, uh, I'm excited for the night we actually each of us will probably have some room to talk like, I'm looking at the tiles in front of me and there's, you know, only 1234 you know, where there's normally like, 10. So we all have our chance to chime in. So I like it. Yeah, that's you and you know, you mentioned that humidity I look at is a good thing. Because I always like to think that I'm walking and I'm sweating. I'm losing weight, but maybe it's just not that maybe it really is just the humidity. there and then 9:00 You drink one of those stats and you're like, right back. 9:04 It's like I keep gaining weight but I've been actually sweating too much. That's I don't think that's how it's supposed to work. Yeah, just like working out or go into the sauna or the same thing. Yeah, and white but sweating out those demons. So exactly for sure. Alright, so as usual we're going to do is we're going to go around the horn. So I'm going to go start off my left are Cal Ripken of the bourbon Community Roundtable. Blake welcome back. Thank you. Thanks for having me. This is the what are we at 37th round table close. 34 is incredible. round tables. Yeah. So congratulations to everyone on that. Now always great to be here. I'm Blake from bourbon or you can find me on all the inter webs and social medias Bo you are Bo in our calm as well as seal box calm as well. For all your craft beer needs. That's s e l ba ch s Thanks for having me. Spirit shipped right to your 10:00 Door it's about as easy as you can get. Yeah. 10:03 There's, there's no waiting in lines. There's no car. No camping out, you just, you know flip, just go on your own and it's there. It's sometimes free too. So just 10:16 depending on the tear up 10:19 bad we messed things up. It made me show up free 10:22 billing system. 10:26 Nick, go ahead. Alright, I'm Nick from breaking bourbon, one of the three guys behind breaking bourbon breaking bourbon. com. Check us out Facebook, Twitter, Instagram at breaking bourbon. And, hey, glad Glad to be here. I'm kind of back and forth between myself and Jordan. And I think over the past weekend, we convince Eric to start joining in a little bit more too. So you'll see that the man behind the man I think a little bit more here this year. Oh secret 10:55 coming off the bench, like it. And so Nick one thing that I noticed in your back 11:00 Ground was, you all did a new roof pic recently that went through seal box yet a pretty funny yet a pretty funny sticker behind it. I also want you to kind of talk about that one. Yeah, so these are some of the pics here. It's actually still still waiting on my bottles but it's just a test sticker on there if you can see that. So we kind of wanted to play with the other end of the rift thing. So wrestlers mom, Striffler, you know, so Steve sticklers, everybody they can relate to that, interestingly, just had a 20 year reunion so that movie actually came out American Pie came out during the summer after graduation of high school and before college so needless to say it was a fun summer. But as soon as that kind of came up and and we started a band around the idea, I think it just stuck and so we went with so how many more riff ideas are there going to be out there? 11:56 I've had more inquiries about wrestlers, moms, people seeing the sticker inside 12:00 Hey, so how do I get one of those? Like, well, you got to be the number one Patreon supporter I guess so. 12:06 Drinking bourbon. 12:09 They are sold out though now to think right Blake they sold out today through the major supporters, but 12:17 it didn't take long. No, no, no. I've seen Ken Griffey Jr. I've seen Rick James. 12:25 Yeah. So so we got a few more riff puns, I think still available but riff a mania. Yeah, there's there's so many out there. There's a lot of good ones too. Alright. And so to our resident lawyer, Brian, how's it going? Hey, thanks. Thanks for having me again. Great to be here. This is Brian with sip and corn. You can find me on Twitter Instagram now finally and and Facebook at sipping corn and online at sipping corn calm or bourbon justice calm and again. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to this one. It's so before we dive into it, Brian did I see something it was posted by Brad at little bit earlier today. I guess 13:00 There was a paper or something that was published that that you had done recently that he finally said, at least he put it on his Facebook for me that's no bread Atlas. he's a he's a friend of the show he was on talking about four roses and barrel pics and stuff like that. But he said that he was quoted in one of your I don't want to say like dissertation. I don't know what you call it, but you know, whatever it is. Well, yeah, it's it's close to that. It's basically the scholarly journal side of of what lawyers do. And I had an article published in a Law Journal from University of Kentucky and I for the bourbon history and to make a point about how much bourbon enthusiast dive deep into these issues, quoted some of his articles from bourbon and banter. I've had a breaking breaking bourbon citation on there had bourbon truth on there. So I was trying to make a few points about how deep we all dies and how into the weeds we get and those definitely pretty 14:00 Did some of the best examples for it. 14:02 Alright, so Ryan may need to step up our game and just not like bullshit about stuff but put some facts out there 14:09 are optional. 14:12 I can understand why you leave us out. I wouldn't want to be cross check the reference, you know, for for my facts. I appreciate being on that Brian, that was the two year storage experiment. And that was definitely our longest dive in anything. How it was a great deep dive, you know, the oxidation effects. I mean, that was that was fantastic. Yeah, I tried to find a quote from the round table and I just couldn't find anything with factual support. 14:41 The only factual support was actually the stuff that you contributed to. 14:45 I don't want to cite myself. So I caught myself from the Harrison podcast, although I didn't have a plug for the book and the article, so I can't say I didn't quote myself, but 14:56 yeah, so I'll for anybody that's curious about what that is. I'll make sure I put it in 15:00 Show Notes the podcast so you can go and check that out at your own leisure because it is it is a long long thing to read. I scroll through like the first two pages and I was like am I almost done? Oh crap is like 18 more to go so I I'll put that out there if somebody else that wants to see it. Yeah, that's the insomnia cure it is maybe just just go to the to the parts where I quote the fellow bloggers and then be done. That's fine. Perfect. 15:26 So there you go, Kenny. 15:29 I don't know. Let's let's see how much I can drink tonight. We'll see you go to sleep later. 15:33 There you go. Yeah. So let's go ahead and let's move on to our first topic of conversation tonight. And this one is really focused around that was it was the big news last week. In this was the Jim Beam warehouse fire. It's estimated somewhere around like 45,000 barrels may have been lost in the gym be warehouse fire. And this is just down the road of castle and key in the Glens Creek distillery near Milledgeville, Kentucky. And if you put this into perspective 16:00 That's about half of the 92,000 barrels that were lost during the heaven Hill distillery fire of 96. And that's when seven Rick houses had actually burned to the ground. And at that time, that loss represented about 2% of the nation's bourbon supply at that time. And I think we can all kind of look at it and really say that this is a this is a big travesty, right? This is a tragedy for all that involved. There were people that were commenting and saying things like, Oh, it's only white label, who cares are saying, Oh, I have pre fire odd 114 and I'll go ahead and post it for sale. Or people were joking and saying as jack daniels starting the fire saying how Alcoholics Anonymous benefit from it. I mean, let's take a step back and think about it like, is this really like the current state of affairs of what we see? 17:00 In the bourbon community and what we should expect when something like this happens when there's millions and millions of dollars on the line for a very large organization, there are firefighters that are sitting there trying to contain the fire that are trying not to spread to people's homes in the area, and people are just just making  jokes at him. I mean, is this is this natural? Like, is this what we could expect from here on out? I think one thing to point out is that no one got injured or died or anything in it, which is the key thing, I think the mood could have been very different. If that was the case and that scene right up front that was the message that was out there. And I think because of that, you know that the tone was able to be different or you know, people may be felt they could, you know, be different with the tone as a result of that. And that's really probably the biggest thing is that you know, you have these what could be really pretty scary incidents happening that you know, fortunately we haven't had you know, anything really seriously happen anyone to get injured or 18:00 You're killed, you know, more more recently in some of these more major, highly publicized ones. So I think that plays into it in this case as well. Yeah, it's kind of been a blackout for bourbon warehouses the past two years. I mean, it's like how many more can like, you know, get some, some natural disaster or something collapse? It's like, it just kind of makes you realize that, like, how old this stuff is, and like, I don't know, that kind of needs, probably some intervention, maybe to kind of protect them more like not just like, Oh, it's been there. It's been built forever. It's all good, you know, so. Yeah, it's just it's just been happening too much lately, I think. And it's kind of serious because we all go and barrel pics and we're all in those things. And tons of tourists go in and out of them. I'm really just, 18:49 you know, it's just kind of scary. You know that all this has happened so much recently. So I think people need to take it more seriously than then than just, oh, it's a white label or it's 19:00 Don't drink the water that's going in, you know, they'll Fall River don't drink it. You know, it's it's definitely more serious than that. So it's something we need to the community needs take serious and you know, the the distilleries as well. 19:12 Yeah, I think that's there's there's a few comments in the chat saying, you know, is this a Rick house problem ovulate like is it is it the age it's catching up on these things? You know, the Barton side that most certainly could have been a problem because there was maybe lack of oversight in regards of maintenance or something like that. However, this this what happened to Jim Beam was a lightning strike. And from what I understand is that lightning poles are pretty ubiquitous anywhere. So they're, they're stationed around the properties and that's what's supposed to basically detract the lightning to go away from most of the warehouses. They're installed in a lot of places. However, you know, it's lightning. So by Reza lightning hopefully doesn't strike twice in the right spot or the single sure, but the the 20:00 warehouses are grandfathered. They don't have sufficient sprinkler systems like the new ones. If you have a if you're Rick is so many barrels, you're not required to have them. It's like, okay, you know, the these are like serious things that, you know that, you know, people can get hurt and I think they need to take it seriously. That's just not some warehouse out there. 20:21 I don't know. Yeah, this this used to happen a lot more historically. I mean, there were five I don't know about the collapses, but there were definitely fires. And there were all kinds of injuries and in warehouses in it distilleries generally. So I think we're probably looking at it in the context of the big bourbon boom lately, so we're all more people are paying attention to it. I mean, if this happened 10 years ago, probably barely be a blip. But sure fires happen. And I think what we might see is is a change to have the the ground built up around them to contain 21:00 The any spirits that get out because we've got a fish kill on the Kentucky River now i mean it's it's a real ecological problem when this happens so I expect to see some some of this grandfather and kind of get questioned and in some of these warehouses might need to be brought up to more current code yeah I think the you know the cynicism is kind of natural and in anything like this you know think just about anything serious that happens there's going to be somebody in a lot of us take this as a hobby so it's only natural to joke about it when you know in real life there's people whose livelihoods and all that kind of depend on it which you know you look at this and while beams a massive Corporation This is probably still a $40 million plus loss so that that is a big thing that should be taken serious. I know David from rare bird was saying I think it was on Twitter somewhere just like 22:00 This is just what happens with something like this. You're just going to have the people joking around about it. And it's unfortunate to an extent but at some point it's like, you know what else are we can't just sit here and mourn the loss of barrels as well you know, as long as nobody got hurt 22:16 I don't know the I'm not going to be posting a bunch of pre fire Jim Beam jokes, but at the same time, we didn't delete them from the bourbon or group either. I didn't feel like it was that offensive? I guess I 22:28 heard a whole lot more offensive stuff then then warehouse jokes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, for sure. I agree with that. And I just kind of took it took it in stride. It's going to happen. 22:41 Any kind of news is going to get turned into a meme these days. And that's not the bourbon world. That's that's anything you know, that very serious issues happen and somehow it becomes like, a funny picture with some words on it. 22:54 And sometimes you need comic relief for service, what kind of helping me to pass that or it doesn't 23:00 seem like it's been happening a lot. And maybe that's just because we're focusing on a lot more. Now, you know, it's, it's interesting to hear Brian say that this was very, was much more prevalent, you know, long time ago, you know, I guess maybe 30 4050 years ago 23:17 but you would think we'd have a little more safeguards in place to stop some of the stuff especially like the collapses you know, you think building codes and everything would and inspections would improve that kind of stuff, but lightning strike that's pretty you can't really avoid that unless you just have fire sprinkler systems and that kind of stuff. 23:39 Yeah, absolutely. And Blake you kind of reminded me something of like you know, you and you to to Ryan of saying like you have to make light of a certain situation, you know, and I don't know like when the the too soon thing really, you know, supposed to like play a part into this. But, you know, it reminds me of like one of my favorite comedians is Daniel Tosh. And he says like, nothing is off limits. 24:00 And it's kind of funny it's like I think about it now thinking back I was like yeah well maybe maybe when is that that boundary or that you know whenever Can you say something about it and and I guess in this light you look at it you say well at this point it is a financial loss there was nobody that was hurt there were people that put their lives on the line but it wasn't to the point where you know it's it's not like any of us had like a barrel in there that was like our thing and we're like running in there to go save it right it was it was just like it was a contained fire. They let it burn. I think I read a news article on who he is or something like that they were talking to one of the fire marshals and they're like yes is the best smelling fire we've ever been to you know it's like one of those things that even the fire marshals are kind of having a good time with it you know i but i think it might just be in in poor taste sometimes if it's like 30 minutes minute Yeah, yeah. Like hey, let's let I was gonna use upon us. Let's let the fire settle or dust settle. 25:01 Now my digit but you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, give it a little bit of time. Make sure everyone's Okay. And then it's like, okay, it's fine. Today's Blake, you're clear. I'm good. Okay, good. Good. 25:11 I mean, I've heard estimates says is like $270 million in losses. 25:16 That seems like a lot for 45,000 barrels. Well, I mean, you got think 5000 a barrel, you know, probably, I mean, it's cheap stuff that they're getting, like, probably 250 plus bottles out of I mean, and then you times about 40,000. So I don't know that's I was thinking replacement cost. Yeah, you gotta wonder what the 25:36 $250 a barrel, then they've got to rebuild the warehouse. 25:42 But, yeah, I could be way off in one opportunity costs too. So you're just it's just proud of you that they don't take. I guess they do have a min sure. But you know, it seems like okay, I could spend 500 grand on a warehouse to get sprinkler or whatever you know, correctly to help. Save maybe I don't know. 26:00 Maybe I'll just lay off all our Donald music or Donald Blanco. 26:05 It was tragic to me those this and people keep calling it the beam fire, which of course it is. But it's it's Old Crow. And I don't know when these I didn't pay attention when these were built. But this is a distillery built in the 18 seven days I think it was 1870 I think is when old crows built. I don't know if those date back that long. But if if ever we were going to have a revitalization of the Old Crow brand and if they were ever going to bring that distillery back as some kind of tour destination like they have that old Taylor for castle and key mean we're losing out on those opportunities and and that's, that's what bums me out the most since there wasn't any injuries about this. Brian, I think you bring up a good point too, because I know Fred, who couldn't be on tonight. He kind of made a mentioned to me in a text message and saying like, this is this is scary. 27:00 You know it was going was happening is like not just for the fire and everything he's like he's talking about the visitors like the people of bourbon and really what this can mean, saying that this should if if more of these things happen whether they're fires, whether warehouse collapses, any sort of distillery mishap that makes headlines, he said this could completely change any visitor experience you ever go to. It could completely change any barrel pic experience you ever go on. Like they could eventually get to the day where they're saying like no, like, we're not allowing anybody else in the warehouses, like we're getting a hard hat or anything like that, you know, I mean, Kenny and I experienced that for Barton pick 79 to pick and you know, there was lightning in the air and they're like, no way we're gonna do it inside and it's not as fun, you know, being in a little tasting room, but luckily the skies cleared and they let us go back in there. But yeah, it's your he's totally right. And it's for the right reasons, though. Sure, absolutely. is legitimately it's it's legitimate, but actually 28:00 I always think when I think of the sterile experience, I think of the heaven Hill downtown. I mean, it's, it's like Disney Land, and you don't get any sort of real experience there. And that's, I mean, that's could be what this turns into if the insurance companies won't insure the distilleries if they let people in, I mean, that's who's going to drive it. It's can you get coverage? Or can you get coverage that you can afford? And maybe you have to limit it to visitor centers and kind of the Disneyland look. Yeah. Right. There would be a detriment that would be a sad thing to see happen. Yep. But I would play this angle though to you know, I get sent a link in that from a lot of people are outside of bourbon who just know that I'm into bourbon and so they sent the link but from somebody's perspective, that's not really involved in bourbon. You know, they're so bombarded with bad things happening all the time. You know, do you look at something like this and not really think anything of it? You know, because you're not involved. No one was injured or hurt you 29:00 You see bad so much worse stuff than this happen on a daily basis in the news, depending on what you watch, you know, so in the big scheme of things, it the impact is really a lot more just, you know, the enthusiast and that specific kind of bourbon crowd or the potential impact is there, you know, in addition to the environmental stuff, you know, but again, that gets to kind of just all those bad things just cycling through the news on a daily basis. No, you're totally right. And and who knows if this might have been a you know, a smaller craft distillery who knows if you made headlines especially around the nation just because of the size and the impact it what it was I mean, you know, if I saw a quote from john little from smooth Ambler he put on Facebook and you know, he said that it's sad to see these kind of incidents like no matter the size of the company, and he says I often put myself in smooth anglers position and a tragedy like this would be completely devastating to his type of business. So it definitely is a scalar 30:00 too. Wow when it comes to it, so, yeah, they lose 45,000 barrels. They're done. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So I think at this point I think we can kind of move on we've we're all we're all kind of fired up. Is it too soon? 30:18 For a pre fire heaven Hill. Alright, so, so I won't do that. But yeah, now we're going to go into kind of the the next topic and this is the one that I think it's might have been a little bit old news by now but we're going to go ahead and kind of spark the situation back up because it's the roundtable and why not because this is gonna be a lot of the opinions of really what we see of what's happening inside of the the bourbon community and everything like that. So everybody kind of remembers about, oh gosh, what was it about a year and a half ago, and this was something that we had talked about in the roundtable plenty of times. Nick had talked about it, saying you know, every time I come down to Kentucky what I do, I grab a few bottles of 31:00 Heaven hills six year bottle and bond and I take it back home with me it's some of the best bourbon at $12 a you know 750 ml that you can get on the shelves. In a year and a half ago they had announced that there was going to be a I guess the retirement or the phasing out of this particular product. When that announcement happened shelves started clearing I mean gone and Kentucky here and there and everywhere. It ended up getting the point where I think now you can actually still get on the secondary market. It's somewhere around like $40 for 750. So you get scarcity. People hoard it people buy it up. This is what happens. And now since they did discontinue a beloved $12 six year product and they haven't Hill is now I don't want to say relaunching they are launching almost a similar product. It is their seven year heaven Hill, bottle and bond. So with this comes a few different things, you get an additional year. It's just 32:00 Bottom bond so it's still 100 proof however it comes with a 233% price increase about three times the price. So you're going from $12 so around 3999 MSRP and with this It also comes in its initial launch is also limited availability only available in like I think eight states across the US. So before we start diving into kind of like the business side how do we compare this other things in the market but look at I'm going to kind of pose it to you all and Ryan I'll I'll kind of ask you first. Was this the right move by Heaven hill? 32:37 You know, I love heaven Hill, but man, they bought a lot of things like the logic Craig 12 year age statement, like moving into the back label, then moving it to the side and then saying, No, it's not going away. And then it goes away, you know, and then this, it's like, I don't care what they do, just like see up for about it. Who cares? You know, like, I'm still gonna love you. But uh, I think 33:00 Yeah, they should have just been like, Hey guys, given the market, we have a great product. You know, there's stuff out there on the market. That's whitelist age. Not as good. You know, with a bigger price tag, we feel like this is what it's worth. And here you go, and I would have been like, yep, you're totally right. I totally agree with you. Give me my seven year for 40 bucks, but not still will do that because it's gonna be a great product but uh, yeah, it's just I don't know why they do that. I just don't understand but but I will say that I am wearing my heaven Hill hat tonight to make sure that I am showing support for the brand because I still love the brand. Yeah, of course. 33:37 And yeah, I mean, it is. I don't know I mean, I don't know if it's a dagger to the heart for a lot of bourbon consumers or bourbon lovers out there because you're wrong like this is on the shelves for a very, very long time around here and it's not like it was flying off. It was just, it was just a it was a great value for what it was. But before we do that, you know, dive into more of it. Blake kind of talk about your side. Do you think this was the right move by Heaven Hill to 34:00 to kind of get rid of it and relaunch it. Yeah, I think it was definitely the right move. Not from you know, my perspective as a consumer, but from a business standpoint, it was the best move they can make. You know, I can't imagine what the cost is on a, you know, six year old bourbon, but the margins probably weren't huge. They've basically learned through all these other things of, you know, moving the the 12 year to the back labeled and pulling it off completely then kind of redesigning the laser Craig barrel proof and, you know, they took away Elijah Craig 18 year and reintroduced it a couple years later at four times the price three times the price around there, they realize they can kind of do whatever they want. And yes, a small group of us will kind of cry foul but overall the market still embraces it and still buys it and, you know, it's just kind of keep doing what they want to do. 35:00 And they know that the that the product was undervalued. So they said, Okay, let's put it out at a higher price people will still buy in, it's still a pretty good deal. You know, I have a different perspective on it because I'm not in Kentucky. So it's not something I could regularly get. 35:17 So it's not like I'm missing out on anything. It's in my mind. I'm, it's a plus to me, because I'll actually now have a 30 to $40 What's the retail 4040 $40 bottom, but in that I'm just going to go by Elijah Craig, which is, you know, slightly proof down but probably a little bit older. 35:39 So, I mean, from a business standpoint, I think that's ultimately the right move. And we have given heaven Hill more than enough reason to believe that the market will not care and they'll still go buy it. So yeah, well, 35:54 yeah, 90% of market that probably didn't even know that it was like Kentucky, only six year product. 36:00 999 or whatever so you know, who gives a shit about these Barkin few that now that could turn on them really quickly if things start to get a little bit tighter and they need, you know the enthusiast market again, but I still think we're a little ways out on that happening. Yeah, so I don't know. I mean, what I've loved to see another great value bourbon that's still really underpriced. Yes, of course, I think we'd all want to see that. But at the end of the day, it's a business and yeah, I'm guessing they made the right business move. I just have one more point before we move on Kenny to the next person. I think the biggest travesty here is that like you said, you'll go by logic Craig for whatever or Henry McKenna whatever Well, they're going up to so that's just the nature of the progression that's happening here and so it's just gonna slowly move on. brands. You know, you look at it heaven hills had bought 37:00 far the most value based Bourbons for the longest time you know you think of Henry mechanics in your you think of Evan Williams single barrel you think of Elijah Craig was 12 years for a light while even the ledger credit barrel proof in my mind is still a pretty good by depending on where you are. It's a great you know, j w Dan bottled in bond like that is a great bottle for $20. So, you know, while we want to kind of cast that first stone, it's kind of like there's still a lot of other great bourbon out there. 37:35 So that's why it's like hey, Cashin make your money go make build some more warehouses or something. 37:41 Yeah. So Nicole, can I ask you a question? Like, do you think the the idea with this was to try and compete with other brands in the market like the Woodford and the knob creaks that are around that $40 price range? You know, I think it's interesting thinking about before I answer 38:00 That question thing about the progression that it took, which was the undiscovered, nobody talked about it. It's in maybe dusty on the shelf for 12 bucks in Kentucky, and then it kind of got discovered. And that's when you started at people were outside of Kentucky coming in, like me, I was one of them. And I would buy a lot of it just because quite frankly, the price was really the draw it was the value relative to the price, it was good for the price. And it's not like I stockpiled it, that's what I would take to a party and I would leave the bottle there. And then I'd get texts from whoever's house it was those a party saying, Hey, I'm drinking this now. And I'd be like, fantastic. You know, it's only available in Kentucky enjoy it, you know, that kind of a thing. And then I think what happened was you started seeing more people clear the shelves because it kind of became obvious that maybe this wasn't going to go on forever, and it was such a good value. And so looking at the perspective from heaven Hill, you know, why sit there and let that happen. If the idea was it's kind of always available for people in Kentucky, and suddenly kind of not available. It looks like it's not going to be available. You're not really doing 39:00 Anyone any favor? So I agree, I think that was a smart move exactly how they went about doing it and why I think that's kind of the next question that you're asking Kenny is, you know, what is this product? What is it supposed to be? What's their goal with the product? I remember them talking about Elijah Craig, and saying, well, we could have kept a 12 year on and just raise the price. But they said, We don't want it. We want a product that's successful, we really want to keep the price about the same. How do we do that we want to build a brand and have this really always on shelves, we don't want it to be well, or 12. We want it to be go to the store and you can buy it, you know, that type of thing. So now the question is, is is this going to be their flagship? 39:37 Do they want this available? Always, you know, everybody, do they want you to comparing it to like, is that a Woodford or something like that? I think that's yet to be determined. You know, I think they had to do something to it, you know, changing the price a lot. They added a year to it. It's kind of like we can't just do the exact same thing. And then it looks a lot more I think what would be iconic or symbolic of where their branding and 40:00 Where everything is going, you know, where it does really come across as here's a representation of us. They push bottled in bond, I start to wonder if how much they push value versus we perceived value. It's kind of a curious point of mine is, where does that come from? Because it does step outside of that boundary. And I think it does step outside that boundary of everything's overwhelmingly high value. Now, you're asking the question, saying, well, this maybe isn't, you know, and you know, to that the price might be the same for the next 10 years. And they may know that to that you don't see a lot of these really creep up in price unless the retailers are doing a lot of times they'll keep them the same. So I think that's yet to be determined, where we're really going to see this and how it's going to be, you know, kind of viewed and consumed in the marketplace and where they want that, you know, the consumer today, Brian, I want to kind of let you kind of give your your opinion. I mean, do you think this is this is competing within those those different price points of the woods and they're not creeks that are out there? 40:58 Hey, it's Kenny here, and I want to tell you 41:00 About the Commonwealth premier bourbon tasting and awards festival. It will be happening on August 24. In Frankfort, Kentucky. It's called bourbon on the banks. You get to enjoy bourbon beer and wine from regional and national distilleries while you struggle with things along the scenic Kentucky River. There's also going to be food vendors from regional award winning chefs. Plus you get to meet the master distillers and brand ambassadors you've heard on the show, but the kicker is bourbon pursuit. We're going to be there in our very own booth as well. Your $65 ticket includes everything all food and beverage on Saturday. Plus, you can come on Friday for the free Bourbon Street on Broadway event. Don't wait, go and buy your tickets now at bourbon on the banks.org 41:46 Hey everyone, Ryan here and I know when I celebrate a weekend with friends, I want to bring some of my best bourbon. However, if I'm on a car, a plane, it's not convenient. Plus my bottles are clinging around they're not really secure. So I have the perfect solution. 42:00 Aged & Ore travel decanter allows me to put two thirds of my prize bottle and its unique tumbler. It's great for camping or really any outdoor activity with the built into outdoor lines. I know I'm giving my friends just the right amount of my special bourbon. Go Learn more at pursuit travel decanter.com to get yours today. 42:18 You've probably heard of finishing beer using whiskey barrels, but a Michigan distillery is doing the opposite. They're using beer barrels to finish their whiskey. New Holland spirits claims to be the first distillery to stout a whiskey. 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Go to rack house whiskey club com to check it out and try a bottle of beer barrel bourbon and beer barrel rye use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 43:28 Brian, I want to kind of let you kind of give your your opinion i mean do you think this is this is competing within those those different price points of the woods and the knob Creek center out there? Well $40 is the new $25 and everything that we used to be able to get just five to eight years ago now is going to be $40. So as consumers we just have to accept that. What really struck me the most about this is is a few days after this happened. I was at a continuing legal 44:00 seminar and the Katie a was had a presenter there. And she was and I'd heard this before but totally forgot it. She was saying that 60% of $1 for your spirits purchase in Kentucky goes to Texas. So you've got a you've got a $12 bottle and you've got just over $7 of that goes to some way shape or form to Texas. Heaven Hill can't can't make I mean, I'm sure they're doing fine. But hold on, hold on. You forget the retail who makes money off the retail who makes money in distributor? And then so you have what's left of the actual producer? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I mean, it's you can't you can't sell bourbon for 1199. You just can't. I always treated the the six year as sort of my, my, 44:50 my bar if you had a craft whiskey. That was that was however old and you couldn't be better than a 60 year heaven Hill bottle of 45:00 Bond wasn't going to be worth spending $60 on it when you can get it when I could get at least in Kentucky a $12 bottle of fantastic bourbon. So I as a consumer, I'm sad about it as looking at it from heaven hills perspective, it's a no brainer to Nick's point I totally agree this is so much better than if they had done the exact same product exact same bottle exact same label, cheap plastic white screw top and increase the price to $40 that they couldn't do that they had to do some premium make some premium changes to it. And and they've done that you know that with with the cork and the label and everything else. So it's people are going to buy it, it's it's going to be worth it, you know, air quotes worth it. But as a consumer, I'm sad about it, but it makes sense. I just don't understand why can't they just be honest, like I just don't get what's the advantage of 46:00 Like, let's pull it off the marquee and we'll pretend like we just hit it and we're not 46:07 there they forget about people forget about it. And then it's like, I want to 46:13 like go to bye bye present with your kid at Target and be like, okay, I'll go hide in the closet some Christmas. I mean, I just want to go on these border meetings and be like, Are you serious? Like, do you think we're that stupid? Like, like consumers? I stupid? I guess. It's my point that most of these distilleries just don't care about consumers. But uh, anyways, I don't care. I totally understand why they're doing it. Yes. $12 a bottle. I mean, we sell bourbon. We can't sell. I couldn't even sell it for $90 a bottle and make money so it's, I totally get it. Just don't be. Don't fool us. We're not idiots like it. Was that the case though? Or was it just you know, I guess looking at it. I'm not at all surprised even when it happened. I really kind of assumed this was coming. I was just not sure what it was going to be exactly. And all 47:00 Lot of cm, I'm surprised the prices as low as it is I kind of thought they were going to go more the old Fitz route and have more of a premium thing and kind of step it up that much. So because it is more of the every day price of what you're seeing now, like you said, the new 40s, the new 25, it actually had me a little excited of Hey, this is something hopefully, I can go by now and it's a little bit older, I assume it's going to taste a little bit different than what the six year was. And I'm not really sure. You know, with all these discussions, they knew exactly what the plan was going to be for that they would want to say anything until it was coming. You know, do you want to say it a year before it's ready, you know, because they went from six to seven, you know, or was it 47:43 you know, they just thought the time would be the key that they just thought Oh, after a year people were would forget that's it. I think they got mad as her Brooks won some awards that said, 47:53 you know, screw this was when we all appreciate a press release at this point that just says 48:00 Guys we're gonna make some more money so right 48:04 in your blindly buying anything on the shelf and anything with hundred dollar price tag your dumb uncle's definitely buy in so 48:15 y'all pay way too much attention to bourbon like just take a backseat on this one. It's okay. Yeah, I actually think there's a whole brand opportunity there Blake versus that brand. They just jokes about everything. It's called it and it's 48:29 Yeah. 48:31 That would be incredible though. I would be like, I don't know. I think it would be so awesome if they did that. But instead they gotta do this. You know, play behind the scenes. Ping Pong match. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're right. like nobody, nobody that pays attention to stuff whatever. Forget it, especially for a product that was iconic to I would say a lot of us but at least people that are well known or should I say really know the bourbon landscape very well, like they know about the product. They 49:00 They know where to find it and they know about it. Now the other side of this is perhaps it wasn't their favorite, right? It's a value budget bourbon like that's what they loved about it. It wasn't necessarily say like, Oh, this is this is my unicorn, right? It's not that's what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be that this is a budget bourbon. But Ryan you'd also mentioned the Ezra Brooks point of view, and I kinda want to look at the competing l side of the market because anybody that okay I mean, well, let's say like as a Brooks barrel proof is basically contract is still haven't helped, right? It's the same exact thing. And now so we're looking at the difference of a barrel proof products from heaven hill at the seven year age David, versus the heaven hell product bottle and bond less proof and the same price point. 49:50 Like, yeah, like, like what gives? So that's that's comes another point like, now who are they competing with? Are they competing against themselves? 49:59 Yeah, no. 50:00 There's no question there's a high value. So to with the Ezra I think that was recognized right away you know, so part of that is that value proposition you know just just just thinking about what you know he always comes into play when you when you think value and you know you get this weird dichotomy with smaller craft distillers where stuffs coming out for higher prices but then in some cases people like God's its craft it's not kind of recognized yet I'm unless you want to support them. It's in some cases it's not really not really there yet. You know, other cases you have, you know, somebody like new riff who's killing it, you know, with a four year and you know, bottled in bond, you know, so here you go is a four years a seven year you know, you look pricing, I mean, do you put them on the same platform for I'm going to compare this to that, or do you say, Well, no, there's a different comparison here because the distillery size and you know, those kinds of things. So that's the questions you always have to, you know, kind of look at and it's only it comes down to just how much you like it, how good it tastes, but it also comes down to 51:00 How they're speaking with you. And I think Ryan, you made a good point, you know, for the enthusiast side because maybe some other people, the general public doesn't care, but you never want to be lied to, and you never want to feel like the world was pulled over your eyes, which, unfortunately, with the Elijah Craig age statement, that was how everybody felt, you know, and so I think, you know, lesson learned, avoid doing that, like think proactively to speak to that group so that you don't you don't lose that, you know, that faith in that community that's behind the distillery. 51:30 Haven't got it. Sorry. Oh, sorry, Nick. What's up riff bottle and bond cost. $55 or no? The bottle the bottle? 51:39 What is it Blake 4040. Yeah, 44 year, Lori. And I think I think a great value. I think it's a great product. Yeah, I guess this caps the secondary price of the six year bottle and bond. Right. 40. Well, now it's the old label though. They changed it. So now it's 52:00 You know, like discovering your phones in a way, right? So you gotta buy on the shelf anymore. Yeah, I want to throw another one out. 52:10 There. Oh, go ahead run. Well, I'll say here you go heaven Hill. I know you're going to do this within the next year, when you write one to raise hundred McKenna's prices, and you change the packaging, and you change the cork, so that you can justify a $20 increase, just say, we are going to change the cork and the label and we're going to raise about 20 bucks because we think it's undervalued. And I will say, Amen, I will go buy it still. 52:33 I think that's a good Brian. It's it though. Like anyone who's paying attention is somebody who cares. anyone's not paying attention doesn't care. So you got to speak to that group. Yep. Yep. And that was Brian, you kind of teed up the next question right there is is we now see an aspect with inside of heaven hill that they're kind of cannibalizing themselves, where they have products that have higher age statements and higher 53:00 was a perceived value and sometimes even higher proof settling for less money then this product that they're putting out so you know, you look at the, the Henry McKenna bottle and bond as you mentioned, you got Evan Williams you got GTS brown you've got GW Dan, you have all of these different products and mind you that is less the less something's changed and I don't know recently but they're they're bourbon not we didn't match up with a regular bourbon mash bill is one bourbon Nashville, like, nothing's changed. So it's the same product that's going into all these just different aging warehouses, locations, so on and so forth. So do you all see themselves as kind of like cannibalizing and like making themselves like, like, they're, they're fighting against themselves in the market with their own products? 53:46 You know, in a way, maybe I think fewer people are going to tie those things together. Then, you know, when you think of the mass market, I'm not sure a lot of people walk in and realize they're coming from the same place at the store. So 54:00 It's still a pretty small percentage that even acknowledges that. It's like, why do you have a CVS on, you know, two blocks away from each other. And it said, well, you're more likely to stop in at the CVS or Walgreens, if it's, you know, right next to you, as opposed to two miles away, it's still not that big of a deal. So if you go into a store, and it's like, all right, what's on the shelf, if you know they only had one product, you're less likely to grab that bottle when there's 100 products on the shelf. So they put eight to 10 out there, you're more likely to grab it. So I think I think the answer to your question Kenny, when I was out at a bourbon event at a different city, and I met some people that just started drinking bourbon six months ago they had no ideal that Eagle rare Buffalo Trace and all you know under that same Nashville were the same exact Nashville and they're like what you're kidding me. Like it's the same Nashville they have no idea that like, all these brands are the same magical, just different prices, different age, whatever. So they just 55:00 Like the modern the everyday consumer has no idea and you pointed them to the bourbon or Nashville breakdowns 55:10 cheat sheet Thank you. You go we give away posters that shit now. 55:16 Thanks for coming here's your match. Oh, yeah, but but I do want to give a shout out to Dave overboard one on one because I know he's he's he's been talking a lot in the chat here is always saying like wild turkey one to one it's still their prices and change so he could always go there. I saw $10 Yeah, comment on that $10 Right, exactly. So he's trying to put his deck in the ground and hoping with bourbon a choice. Yeah. Well, he's also hope with the Campari folks don't start taking a note out of heaven hills playbook here. But then the also kind of thing is, you know, when we look at this, and we look at it from the enthusiast point of view, you know, we are the bourbon enthusiasts. This is if you're listening to this podcast, who are a bourbon enthusiast, it's there's no way getting around it right. You are You are 56:00 The few people that really care, maybe not as much as us, but you care a lot, you care a lot of a niche of a niche. Exactly. And so you kind of look at it and you're like, well, if heaven Hill really wants to make money off the enthusiasm really care about them. This is what David at rubber one one says, maybe should sell single barrels at more than 90 more than 94 proof. Right? Do something more than than just what you can do it Eliza Craig and he's, I think he might be onto something. 56:26 Yes, they were in those single barrel pics, but but selling them at 94 proof. It's, it's a travesty, really. But you know. And so the last kind of thing I want to hit on with this as it's kind of running out this topic here is we have noticed inside of the press release this is this is almost like unheard of to be able to have a bourbon that's being launched, coming from a prestigious distillery inside of Kentucky and it says it's available in eight states and you start looking down and you start looking and there's one or there's there's one abbreviation you don't see. That's k 57:00 You do not see ky as one of the first states that are out there. Now, Ryan and I have a kind of a good inkling of why this might be. And I'll kind of let Ryan take it here. So Ryan, kind of kind of give your your thought and your process of why wouldn't you go and make Kentucky and available market on day one? 57:20 Because I know they'll sell it no matter what, whenever it gets here. So I gotta go spread to the masses and 57:28 get the new consumers, which I understand, you know, it's totally cool. But it's like Fred always talks about you can't forget the people that brought you to the dance. You know, it's like, Yeah, I don't know. I it's, it's frustrating, but, you know, that's totally Wow. But it's just great to see you know, okay, why not get something that the rest of us 57:54 in New York is on that list. So that means you three to six months after it's released. We'll see you next 58:00 Yeah. 58:02 It's like, you know, Florida all the fun releases are going to come after everyone's Instagram has been flooded with with pictures of these new releases non stop button. Yeah, I'm excited. Yeah, I mean, right now we were talking about this because he recently took a trip and it's kind of like, Kentucky is very, very small in the picture things. You know, we Yeah, yeah, I mean, saying that, you know, yes, there's there's 4 million plus barrels of whiskey aging and Kentucky. That's more than the population of Kentucky. Guess what? That's a that's about half the size of Dallas. Yeah, it's like there then you got these like Houston and LA and New York that are, you know, just even bigger. It's like, yeah, yeah. So even even when you look at per capita buying, which I'm sure is higher here, you're still not touching, not even close to the bigger markets. Yeah, because I think California and Texas obviously because every 59:00 The biggest population but, you know, I mean, they're just crushing Kentucky and far as you know, consuming power and booze. 59:09 Trying to change one bottle at a time. You know, that's very interesting, just kind of going back to these brands are realizing they don't need the enthusiast nearly as much as kind of as the initially Yeah, as we hope. You know what starts happening when this stuff stops hitting Kentucky as much because overall, Kentucky still gets the lion's share of a lot of the allocated bourbon. And to my knowledge, this is the first one that kind of gave the Kentucky snub. So 59:40 it'll be interesting to see what happens, you know if if that's kind of hurts the brand overall, or they just find a new market and never looked back. So it'll be interesting. 59:52 No, I think you're totally right. I think this is going to be it could be one of those pivotal moves we start seeing in regards to the market and how things 1:00:00 Shifting when somebody is going to launch a product where they're going to launch it and they're going to look at the target markets they're going to look at where do where do the most bourbon consumers live. Now granted Kentucky is there but Kentucky is also a large state Kentucky isn't the size of Houston right like Houston's a pretty big populace actually it's a much bigger populace than Kentucky is a state right? So yeah, that might be the that might be the the idea of like maybe that's where you go like that's where the money is. And not only that is there's this is this is not a game of you know, trying to target a particular kind of consumer like this is a game of people with disposable income that are buying Kentucky's a poor state. I mean, they're one of the you know, probably top 10 poorest states in the if not even higher than in the in the country. So I mean, there's not a lot of people with disposable incomes that can just drop money on expensive Barb's all the time, but we spend it on rep tickets and bourbon and that 1:01:00 Sorry. 1:01:03 But what was that the thinking though? Or? I mean, does something play into? I didn't because it is. I mean, it is really odd that it was a Kentucky only release. And and kind of coming back, you know, you think like that's the narrative that it was Kentucky only and we're going to start in Kentucky. So you know, was it because they wanted more momentum in other states first or, you know, was there a concern that it was going to be received or perceived really negatively? Because, you know, you took it away and then and then brought it back at at the price that's coming back at you know, you gotta wonder if there's more to it, then just, this is what's going to give them most momentum. As much as you know, was there a PR play that got banter back and forth about where do we start here? Because it seems like it's going to be everywhere. And it seems like wherever it is, it's new. It's talked about, it's probably going to do pretty well. 1:01:54 So it is really odd that it didn't start in Kentucky. I gotta admit that despite thinking it's a smart move 1:02:00 Not being in Kentucky is really, it makes me wonder how they came to that conclusion. Well, I mean, it could be like, Oh, well, it's been in your state for the past. How many years? Have 1:02:12 you been here about a year and a half ago? Like, let's go somewhere else? You know, it could be that you didn't care until we said we were going to pull it and then then it got popular. Yep. 1:02:24 Absolutely. So let's go ahead and let's let's kind of finish this one on a on a fun little touchy subject too, because why not? Right. So this was a question that kind of came in over Twitter and it was kind of in regards of secondary market pricing and retailers and how do you justify buying stuff and so Kurt Bella Lawsky sa

We all know wood influences bourbon, but to what degree? This episode explores both natural and human impact to understand the chemical breakdown of what happens in the barrel. Peggy rounds this out by pairing it with food so you know how to train your palate. Peggy Noe Stevens is renowned for her ability to combine all of your senses into a memorable experience when you are drinking any bourbon. This session took place at the 2018 Kentucky Bourbon Affair and you can buy tickets to remaining 2019 events at kybourbonaffair.com. Show Partners: Batch 016 was a project that took Barrell Craft Spirits over a year. They selected 9 to 15 year old barrels with similar profiles from different distilleries. It’s deeply concentrated, but not too oaky and finishes with a toasted orange note. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order with code "Pursuit" at RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: Behind the Scenes of Four Roses Small Batch Select - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my9YR-fr95s Kenny’s Big Batch Mint Julep Recipe - https://www.patreon.com/posts/26331151 This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about who you would like to go out drinking with. All the magic of bourbon happens in the barrel. Overview of barrel making and charring barrels. Innovation with barrels. As much as we try to control barrels and warehouses, mother nature still controls a lot of variables. Barrels provide 6 basic food flavors: sweet, spice, wood, smoke, fruit, and floral. Understanding aroma and flavors. Tricks to neutralize your olfactory sense. What decisions affect the flavor of bourbon? What flavor does toasting a barrel provide? What flavor does charring a barrel provide? The chemistry behind bourbon. Importance of oxygen and water. Exploring the texture of bourbon. Where do the barrel notes hit the tongue? When is it over oaked? The Chew Down: bourbon and food pairing. 0:00 You know how we always talk about the angel share the evaporation of the whiskey going up. But I have to tell you that sometimes that evaporation takes on some of the off notes of a product. So you wonder if those angels out there are going too much tannin. Too much acid. 0:30 Hello, everybody and welcome to Episode 198 of bourbon pursuit. I'm Kenny, one of your hosts. And let's run through just a little bit of the news. Four roses small batch select has hit in five markets across the United States. You've got Of course Kentucky. You've also got New York, Texas, California and Georgia. We did a behind the scenes video with Master distiller Brett Elliot during the media day for this particular release. Brent shares a lot of the information on the mash bail breakdown. 1:00 which particular versions he wanted to go into this blend, and why even chose to do certain yeast strain runs years ago in anticipation for this, you can catch that video in our show notes as it was previously aired on YouTube and Facebook. Now the other kind of fun thing about this release is a full on as money. You've got to remember this is a product extension a line extension of four roses, that means it's going to be widely available, but the first bottle hits secondary in sold for around $200. And now that we know that the bottles just keep popping up that there's a lot of groups that are doing cost plus shipping. Plus, there's a myriad of retailers out there that are able to get this to your doorstep just through online purchases. So just a humble word of advice, don't overpay if you don't need to. The retail cost is somewhere between $55 and $65 depending on your region. Derby season is finally upon us and that means I get to make my annual big batch of money. 2:00 juleps and take to Ryan's Derby party. I use 100 proof bourbon and a 1.75 liter handle, mix my own simple syrup, marinate some mint leaves in there. And really this simplifies the whole process because instead of actually having to create individual drinks now I can just pour directly from the bottle and I promise you, it's a lot better than any pre mix that you're going to find out there on the market. Ryan likes to call it a derby party in a bottle. I've posted that recipe for anybody to access on our Patreon page. It's public, so go and check it out. patreon.com slash bourbon pursuit. And today's show is all about bourbon food and knowing how to really train your palate. It's a session that took place at the 2018 Kentucky bourbon affair. Now you're going to get to know Peggy know Stevens a lot more in a few weeks with an upcoming episode. But she has some real pedigree when it comes to bourbon, its history and her connections within the industry. If you're interested in know more about the events that are taking place at the bourbon affair, you can 3:00 See what Tickets are available at ky bourbon affair.com. on our end, we've got some new barrel selections that are coming up for sale really soon. Get to four roses barrels of Buffalo Trace barrel and an Elijah Craig barrel. It's a lot of bourbon, and you can get your chance by signing up and supporting us@patreon.com slash bourbon pursuit. And this is all possible thanks to our retail partner, keg and bottle out of the SoCal area. If you want to visit them online, you can do that keg the letter in bottle.com. Now let's hear from our good friend Joe over a barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred Minnick with above the jar. 3:38 Hi, this is Joe from Barrell Bourbon. Batch 16 was a project that took over a year, we selected nine to 15 year old barrels with similar profiles from different distilleries. It's deeply concentrated, but not too oaky and finishes with a toasted orange note. Find out more at barrellbourbon com. 3:56 I'm Fred Minnick. And this is above the char Bourbons filled with 4:00 Some of the greatest characters of all time. There are so many that it's almost impossible to pick just one you'd like to go out drinking with. Whether it's on a golf course fishing pond or a watering hole, there are so many unique individuals, it would be tough to choose. That became obvious when I put this question out on Twitter. Who would you like to most go out drinking with and bourbon? While flattered many suggested me, I really am. Jim Beam spread No. Buffalo Trace is Freddy Johnson and wild turkeys Jimmy Russell were the leaders in the clubhouse. Then after all the obvious names were taken. Folks started expressing their desire to drink with deceased urban icons such as Elmer T. Lee Booker know and the Jim Beam. Perhaps the most touching came from Kyle Henderson of angel's envy, saying he'd give anything to have one more drink with his grandfather and master distiller Lincoln Henderson, who passed away in 2013. That thread got me to thinking 4:59 Who would I 5:00 Like the most go out drinking with first when I go out I mean really go out to have a good time. I don't want to stuffy turd who will complain about the bill being $5 too expensive. Nothing worse than the guy who complains about everything. No. I want a jovial laughing rip roaring. Good time fella. And my answer may surprise you, but I'd love to go out drinking with former 1800s era distilling great Cyrus Noble. Today Cyrus noble is an NDP owned bourbon that is owned by the same company that owned it in the 1800s the Hoss brothers, Cyrus noble was a savant distiller whose whiskey was so good that somebody actually traded a gold mine for it. That's right. a gold mine that later yielded $250,000 and high grade gold or here's the catch though with drinking was Cyrus. He was a big drunk at 300 pounds. He likes 6:00 Whiskey and was known to drink so much that he would fall over in the mash. And people would pull him out as he was swimming in his own fermented liquid. 6:11 But even if I had to pick up the drunken distiller, I'd love to hang out with the guy whose whiskey equaled a gold mine, wouldn't you? And that's this week's above the char. Let me know who you'd like to go out drinking with on Instagram or Twitter. You can find me at Fred Minnick. That's at Fred Minnick. Until next week, cheers. 6:36 For those of you who might know me or don't know me, I'm Peggy know Stevens, and I'm the founder of the bourbon women Association. And that's who is actually going to sponsor this today as well. But first of all, as people were coming in the door, I was curious. How many of you were here last year with me in my food pairing seminar? Yeah. Okay. And then how many of you this is the first time you've heard me speak 7:00 I've done a food pairing. Wonderful. Good. 7:03 I'm glad I got a few fans in the back of the room. Well, let me tell you that whether you have been through a food pairing with me, or not a food pairing with me, or if sipped bourbon and tasted bourbon with me, I've got some good news. I'm gonna put you on an even playing field today. Let me see a show of hands for those of you who like to drink bourbon. 7:24 Now, tell me if you really like to drink robust bourbon. Even better, even better. Heck, yeah. How many of you like food 7:33 and that means you like to eat. Right? So we're going to have a good day. We're gonna have a real good day. But I gotta tell you, I had a lot of fun with this topic today. That's why it's called the stave is the rave because I don't think our barrel gets enough credit. And I wanted to make sure that was very energetic today. I wanted to make sure that I had quite a bit of rest for you today. So I only drank Baker's 107 last night, because I knew we were going to do some big, bold bear 8:00 Strength Bourbons today, and we're going to pair it with food. So we're going to appreciate that because you know what the staves arrived today. So if you have any takeaway at all, for me personally, this is my little quote for today. grains are the recipe. Yeast may be the sole, but all the magic of bourbon happens in the barrel. And I'll tell you who taught me that all the magic of bourbon happens in the barrel is Lincoln Henderson. And when I was becoming a formal master taster, he taught me that, and I didn't quite believe him, because I knew there were so many variables to creating a great whiskey, right. But at the same time, I have to show you today all the secrets behind it. And the reason why I want to do that is because you see connoisseurs all the time. You see, experts like me all the time. We stand in the front of the room, and we go, Oh, it's got such lovely barrel notes. Oh, I just love the barrel notes. But we really don't explain what we mean. So what does that mean? We just smell wood. 9:00 know we have a lot of flavor and a lot of spirit, if you will, in the barrel. So with that, let's first of all show a little respect for the barrel. Because in the 1800s of course, the reason why the barrel even came into play is because it was kind of the UPS cargo of the day, right? That's how our whiskey or good Kentucky whiskey was transported down the Ohio River. I called that the superhighway of the 1800s. But it was transported down the river, because they would use the barrels and sometimes those barrels Believe it or not, they transported fish, apples, or whatever else they needed, and that's where charring kind of came into play. Because before they put whiskey in it, they needed to get out those other flavors of the barrel that they use apples, fish, etc. For so they char the inside of it. And little did they realized they were making something very special for Kentucky. And if you think about it, even our 10:00 Definition of bourbon, which was an act of Congress in 1964, requires actually for a barrel, new, charred, and white oak, we can never use a barrel a second time. But what I can say is that all of these pieces of the barrel are used. And I'm going to show you that in a little bit too. So let's have a little bit of respect and see what I left for you. This is a stage. 10:30 Do you feel the weight of this stave? Yeah, I want you to think of these as large blocks of sugar. Okay, large blocks of sugar because it has some things in it, some properties in it. And this is how I ended up pairing some of the products that you all have today. I noticed some of you are nosing it which is lovely, I love it. That's great you're supposed to but can you believe that 28 to 31 of these staves are used to make a barrel. You feel heavy and stiff. This is 11:00 Right, this is a barrel heads Dave. And what they do, it's a handcrafted method. This wood is bent best steam, okay to form the barrel so this solid wood is formed 28 to 31 and no wood glue, no nails. Okay, it's handcrafted, the hoops are put on. And that's what you have the barrel 100 pounds empty, almost 500 pounds full to roll that barrel. Okay, so that's just a little bit of that handcrafted Enos. But even more so what's happening in our industry today is a lot of innovation with barrels. And that's why I was saying I don't think that we pay homage as much as we should think about this. This is an actual barrel with some stave inserts. So in other words, after you age, the barrel, some distilleries are actually putting inserts in the barrel to add to the flavor, so they might season it for another five months or four months. call that the finish. 12:00 Another thing that's happening in the industry and innovation is infusion bags. Think about infusion bags. Everybody likes a tea bag every now and then steeping your tea. And infusion bag is a tea bag with bits and particles of wood. And they're steeped into the whiskey of the barrel. So you can see how creative we're getting brands like Devil's cut, that you've heard, they're actually soaking used barrels to get the best of that whiskey out of the barrel. And if you don't believe me, I brought a sample as a matter of fact, and hopefully I'll pass this around for you just don't hitting by in the head with it as you're passing. But this is how deeply the whiskey will soak into the wood. This is called the red line, the red line. That's how deep the whiskey when you empty it soaks into the wood pulling those flavors and karma so I'll kind of pass it around so you can see it. 12:56 But I'll tell you as much as we try to innovate 13:00 As much as we tried to control, you know, the situation with the barrel in the warehouse of the barrel, Mother Nature kind of has its way with us. All right, we can't fight Mother Nature. And let me explain what I mean by that. There are certain variables that Mother Nature controls, and sometimes it's temperature related for a barrel. Other times, you know, it might be weather related. And the beauty of it and this is what people don't know sometimes what happens inside the barrel inside the barrel. If you think of a big Mount Everest, which I have that first picture of Mount Everest. A lot of the whiskey has its main activity in the first two to four years if you can believe it, in the first two to four years now, I will tell you, if you have whiskey less than two years, I call that headache whiskey. All right, and you might say it's really sharp or a little too spirited. If it's too long in the barrel. 14:00 You leave that whiskey too long in the barrel and it tastes kind of a stringent etc. I call that overlooked. We call that long in the tooth and Kentucky. Okay. So think about climbing Mount Everest, all this work, it's really hard. But that's what's happening Mother Nature's making it happen inside the barrel, then we kind of go to the Rocky Mountains, the Rocky Mountains kind of not as hard to climb, but you're still working inside the barrel and you're still making that maturation of the whiskey. But it's kind of mellowing out a little bit. And then finally is the Appalachian, the Appalachian Mountains, you know, we're just over the years, you're not going to have a big climb at all, it's going to be a whole lot easier, but it just kind of gets complexity and color and those types of things that benefit. So those are the things that Mother Nature sometimes can bring to us. But you should know to more on a scientific basis. You know, there are a lot of compounds in this barrel. Okay, and this is where Mother Nature meets 15:00 There's a lot of compounds in this barrel that affect the flavors. And if you think about it, alcohol has a real affinity to wood. It likes wood. In fact, you know what it allows it to do alcohol in the wood allows us and again, Mother Nature helps us with this. But through evaporation, it sometimes sends out. Sorry about that. 15:25 Evaporation kind of sends out some of the not so great notes. All right in the whiskey, and then what happens what we want in the whiskey is it actually brings flavor notes inside the barrel. Okay, so that's a good thing for whiskey it actually helps churn it but the more sugar and the more tannins are in wine because of low barrel entry proof 15% barrel entry. So you know what I say to you one folks, 15:56 your sissies 15% 16:00 Come on now, really, you know when we're having 125 proof, whiskeys and barrel strength whiskies and you know, we're not scared and Kentucky, because we know that's going to bring complexity over time. We know that's going to bring depth over time. So I kind of get a kick that it's 15% entry proof on some of the ones that are put in. Also, when you think of a barrel proper, and let's just think about a barrel like it was a menu. If I never added any whiskey whatsoever to that barrel, and I just said to on that would chew on that word and tell me what you think what you're going to get is sweet 16:42 spice. would sometimes from the wood, you're going to get some nutty notes. Okay, and then smoke, fruit and floral. Now, do you see a little flavor and aroma grid to your right. Do you see that we're going to follow that pretty closely because 17:00 It's my job today to kind of break down in some of the flavors of this wood and its natural state, and in its toasted in charge state, because if I can dissect it down for you, you're going to really understand your prize at the end. And the prize at the end is we've paired in order with it, you're going to see how we build these up. Because by the end of this, there are three words I want you to use after drinking this whiskey that I've poured. And notice I didn't put the names of the whiskey, because I'm gonna see how good you are in guessing some of these right? But I want you to say their plush. Hello, Chrissy. I want you to say they're engaging. And I want you to say they're downright seductive. All right, because we're playing with the big boy Bourbons today. Alright, so let's get started. Here's how we're going to use this aroma and flavor grid. We're going to talk about food flavors first. Look at this little piece in front of you with an A on it. Okay, that is vanilla. That is 18:00 Want you to open that up, take a little note of it, dip your finger in it if you like. And also do me a favor. Once you're finished put the lid back on so we don't dissipate all of the aromas in the room 18:14 that knows that a little bit. That is a very important flavor or food flavor in the wood because there's what's called Van Allen in the wood. Literally there is vanilla waiting to be part of our whiskey. So Van Allen in the wood helps the extraction process and that's why you taste sometimes the first note of a bourbon can be vanilla. Now the second one I want you to kind of hold on to your seats here because it's intense. And this is close. I just want you to knows it. There's nothing to taste. This is the aroma sensory but your olfactory senses, frankly are sharper than your taste buds. Now the reason why I want you to think of that close even though it is intense 19:00 If you know what clove is, it's a spice, right? But it's a flower from a tree. And it's very intense. It could be warm, it can be bitter. You know it can be flavorful. So when you think of variations that happen with spice, you can think of other types of spices that come along the way like all spice, peppers, etc. But if I were to have my straight barrel, clove would be the first one to lead the process. Okay, now let's go to the next one here. How about oak? I know that some of you picked up your stage that's in front of you the Glen pick it up again if you didn't earlier and knows that one of my first training guidelines that I learned from Lincoln Henderson, when you want it to impress upon me, the presence of wood and whiskey is he had me knows a glass of water. So you have a glass of water in front of you so knows that glass of water. 19:59 We're lucky and 20:00 We have pure tap, right? We have great water. Not much there though, right? You don't want to smell much from a glass of water, and then smell the wood, the wood in front of you, because what he did was he took a bunch of toothpicks, there's a true story, took a bunch of toothpicks, and he put the toothpicks in water and let them soak and he said, Peggy, smell the water. 20:20 Now smell the water with the toothpicks in it. We've only been sitting here 15 minutes. Now can you imagine over the course of five to eight years with that alcohol sitting in the wood, what a different set presence is going to make right? So I was pretty impressed by that. Now how about we trash See, this is floral notes that come out from the wood. So what we did is we put a little bit of rose water because that's a pretty prominent floral note that you might find. And then other floral can come from that. You know you might have had viscous. You know you might have a little bit of honeysuckle but other florals along the 21:00 Way over maturation will happen. But I wanted you to heighten your senses. Because it's a very sensory exercise. I wanted you to heighten your senses on the actual floral notes. And then in front of you on a little plate or some dried cherries, I want you to understand the fruit note. So pick up a couple dried cherries, pop them in your mouth, chew on it a little bit and see what you think. Because would can bring out some cherry notes. Again, over time those cherry notes turn into other fruit notes. You know, fruit notes like apricots. You know, fruit notes like apple. You know, those are two very basic ones that would come out but I want you to have that baseline before we move in. Make sense? All right, good. So if you're not too full after eating two cherries, we're going to go ahead and move to the other ones smoke, the smokiness which also can turn very quickly to savory but I'm going to give you an example of 22:00 Your tongue lighter of what savory really means. So the smokiness of bacon made sense to me. So if you'll try a little piece of the bacon strip, if you don't care for bacon, that's just fine. But I want you to gain an understanding of what that does to your tongue that smokiness it's a little heavier, right, little heavier little bit more texture to your tongue. But we have a good understanding of that. 22:28 And as we move each one, just to let you know, you might want to take a bit of a rinse of your water if some of the nosing just to let you know if some of the nosing like the clove gets a strong sense for you. A little trick we use is to smell the back of your hand. It will neutralize your olfactory senses just smelling the back of your hand and that allows you to go to the next area. Okay. 22:59 So you can 23:00 See, as we follow along this flavor grid and aroma grid, the master distiller has a hell of a lot of decisions to make. There's so many variables to the barrel. In other words, when he decides to toast it and char it, which we're going to talk about and taste those flavors, how deep does he want to go? So this represents the coloring. This also represents does he want to start spicy, and go all the way to butterscotch? How much chocolate notes does he want or she want. So think about dialing up or dialing down what happens inside the barrel. Over the years, the master distiller needs to make that decision, and they need to make a lot of other decisions about what goes inside the barrel. And we're going to talk about that. So let's talk now about inside the barrel. In the second column of your flavor grid. We're going to talk about what I call interior flavors into 24:00 flavors are certainly the toasting and charring. Okay? But as far as the toast goes, many people think, Oh, well, once you toast the wood, you get more of the caramel notes. And I'm not saying I don't disagree with you. But many times when I do tastings, I talk about after tasting, I'll say it has it really. It's framed with toast, or it has a toasted framework. And the reason why I say toasted framework is because that toasting of the criminalisation is all working together for me. Okay, so it just has a light toast. Remember that when we start talking about our appetizers, so take a bite of the Cristini that's on your small plate. 24:44 Just take a little bite of that plain simple, but need you to identify that toast flavor and then there is a Carmel 24:56 on your plate. Go ahead and unwrap that into 25:00 A little bite of the Carmel now notice, I did not and it was purposeful. I did not do a dark Carmel. I did a light Carmel. You know, frankly, it's craft karma that you probably remember dipping apples in right to make candy apples, very light, very airy, you know nothing that's going to make it too heavy for you. But what we're doing when I told you that those staves are large blocks of sugar, we are criminalizing the wood sugar of the barrel. We're taking a flame to the wood, and just simply karma. So anybody like Kimberly in here, okay. It's like the topping of timber lay light and airy but not burnt, not smoked, dislike Mary. And so that's what we're going for with toasting. And as I mentioned, it certainly does move to the Carmel but it's not a heavy Carmel. And that's important to note. Now are you ready to kind of go into the fun part the 26:00 fun part is moving into the charming. The charming is taking a very intense flame to the wood and we're blistering the wood. You know why we're doing that? We want to open up the pores of the wood so that great whiskey soaks in and out and in and out of that would also attribute charring to that beautiful rich amber color. That depth of color we have in whiskey also contribute to that camp fire smokiness that we have in whiskey. That's so wonderful. So with charring, you're going to get many things. Okay, we're kind of moving from that Carmel that you just took a bite of to a little bit deeper karma and the best example I could possibly give you and you were probably wondering when you were looking at everything that I have for you to eat in one hour. That piece of chocolate that's in the white cup. Let me share with this is this has 27:00 special meaning to me because this is called a majestic. majestic is considered Louisville's candy. And my father This is what I grew up on frankly in Kentucky or majestic is my father. It was one of his absolute favorite candies. And now I know why because you could drink it with his bourbon. So what you're going to have here is dark chocolate. Marshmallow. All right. And then Carmel. So you're going to get the Triple Crown. All right of charming flavors. This is identical to charming flavors. So take a big bite but save half of it for later because I had a bit of it explosion Pres. At the end of this for your mouth, I promise. So save half of it for later. What do you think of that? You get that you get that chocolate caramel marshmallow wonderful combination. So that's what happens with charming it's like a little campfire. Like a small almost 28:00 I feel at this point, you've had a nice little preamble for your mouth. All right, you've learned a few flavors along the way. We're going to do a couple more. But at the same time, I have to turn because my inner geek turns out a little bit. during the session, I said toasting. I said charming. I said white oak wood, which is all extremely important. But there's a lot of chemistry that happens. And so this is where my inner geek comes out. So I want to share a couple things with you. This is just wood notes. And believe me, not all barrels are created equally. Alright, so when you go to a Cooper bridge, and you see sometimes the barrel staves outside, they're being seasoned, and they're outside and they're drying out, because what that does, when you season the wood, it actually lessens the density of that hard block that you just touched. All right, it lessens the density, so that air flows through 29:00 Whiskey throws flows through it a lot easier. Alright, so that's part of it. And also we're trying to bring out the esters. esters are just a fancy word for stay in flavors. We want wood sugars, and we want tannins, we want the best of wood sugar, we want the best of tannins. And then this is a sample of a woodblock, up close, and all those little dots and all those little veins, if you would, this is called tableau. See, Tableau see is very important. And the only way I can describe it to you of what happens in the barrel is almost like capillaries. All right. If I were to hold a handful of straws in my hand, very loosely, and I poured water over those straws, what would happen? water would go straight through, right? Well, what it does for us is if I were to hold those straws in, squeeze it a little bit, some are open, some are not open, you know 30:00 I might have a little bit of water fall through once I pour. That's what Tyler OC does, it lets the team and soak in a little slower. So it's not rushed. So that's what it helps us do. And that's a very important piece to helping with the flavor components and bringing out the right things that we want for our whiskey. So the next thing that's a variable to think about, and this is the hardest thing, oxygenation, or just plain oxygen and airflow to make it easy. This is the hardest thing for Cooper ej to really get their hands on. And I go back to Mother Nature helping us along a little bit. But oxygenation is really important, because the more air that's flowing through the more fruit notes, floral notes. Also what what we want to happen is oxidation. When people say well, what the heck is oxidation I have no idea what that is. Think of an apple if it were sitting on a table and you left it there a couple days. 31:00 It might brown a little bit and it actually gets sweeter as it goes sometimes. That's what happens within the barrel oxidation with the the Van Allen and the wood sugar is going to kind of oxidize and that actually mellows and brings more flavors. So you want oxidation inside the barrel. So that happens as well and it can also bring some earthy notes. Now once you to taste there's a little sliver of mushroom because I want you to understand what earthy notes bring in your palate. So take a little bite of the mushroom. 31:36 Everybody identify the mushroom, it almost looks like a brownie. 31:40 They saw it for me right? So it's good but take a little bite that is an earthy note. 31:48 That is an earthy note and you can get earthy notes from this and also from the next thing that I want to talk about and that's water. Water is key. You know the first point of 32:00 Water that we're going to experience with a barrel is what anybody know? 32:05 Anybody know the first time that we experience water with a barrel? 32:10 How about barrel entry? Now in Kentucky, of course, we can go up to 125. But some distilleries really debate what the barrel entry of their whiskey is going to be, you know, as low as 103. With Victor's, you know, 110 I think makers and Woodford Reserve us but you can go up from there. So think about when water goes with the whiskey inside the barrel for the first time, it's a bit of a marriage, right? It's a bit of marriage, they have to react together. So the more water that you put in the barrel for the first time, over time, evaporation is going to happen. And that's also a water feature, if you will, evaporation happens and when evaporation happens, the alcohol proof actually goes up because of the big 33:00 Operation Has anybody in here heard of the term Angel share. And you know how we always talk about the angel share the evaporation of the whiskey going up and we can lose 28 to 30%. So it's no joke that there's evaporation. But I have to tell you that sometimes that evaporation takes on some of the off notes of a product. So you wonder if those angels out there are going too much tannin. Too much acid. You know, we joke about it like it's a great thing. Yes. Okay. So, back to this. Another thing that is important is humidity. Think of the humidity that you have humidity actually slows the interaction within the barrel slows the interaction within the barrel, and then the water that you actually put when you pour a glass of whiskey, and you put some water with a splash that actually opens up the fruit notes of a whiskey so you can really focus on the 34:00 Fruit now to the whiskey 34:02 bourbon pursuit wouldn't be possible without the support of our Patreon community and with help of our following partners. 34:10 Now, I've never been inside a prison before, but that's exactly what the folks at Rock house whiskey club did. When they recently took a trip to North Carolina, behind cellblocks, east and west, they found barrels of bourbon being aged and it's entirely legal. Rock house whiskey clubs stumbled upon whiskey prison. It's the home to Southern grace distilleries at Mount Pleasant prison. The prison opened in 1929 during the height of prohibition, and as many as 140 prisoners caught at home until it closed in 2011. In 2016, a new operation moved in and this secure facility houses more than 14,000 gallons of aging whiskey conviction small batch bourbon is the first bourbon ever to be legally aged behind bars is the prison you'd probably want to break into. Rock house whiskey club is a whiskey of the Month Club and they're on a mission 35:00 to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer rock house ships out to the feature distilleries finest bottles, along with some cool merchandise in a box to your door every two months. Go to rock house whiskey club. com to check it out and try a bottle of conviction today. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. 35:26 Now, before we get into texture, and I know you had that beautiful, majestic, right, take a sip of water, and I want you to taste one more thing before we go into the actual pairing. When you taste de de is what's called liquid smoke. Okay, liquid smoke also happens in the charring. But what else happens in my opinion is it aids in the texture of the whiskey, that smokiness now just take a little fingertip because 36:00 You don't need much. Believe me, not anything you want to drink. Just a little test on the tongue get that savory smoky almost wish to share. And go ahead and put your cat back on. 36:13 So dead and dead in your senses. Would you think of that? 36:18 Yeah, it's intense, right? It's really intense. And that's what I want you to know that it can go from that sweet chocolate marshmallow to that really intense smoke. And it will affect a little bit of that texture that we will now when I talk about texture, I'm talking about the structure of a whiskey. So dip your finger in your water glass, put it in your hand and slide it Okay, it's wet, right? But it doesn't slide super easy. It's just wet. If you were to take oil or corn oil, it would glide correct. same example of texture on your tongue. Water has a certain texture 37:00 oil has a certain texture. licorice has a certain texture. So you can see in the row of texture. There can be a soft texture, a sharp texture like licorice, you know that kind of leaves a readiness on your tongue. And when I call viscosity, so there's a little bit of jello because most people don't really understand the viscosity standpoint. viscosity is how heavy it is. So waters thin, right? Coke, if I were to drink a Coke is a little thicker, but then jello would be the thickest. So there's a little piece of jello in a glass there. Do you see that on that little plate and a spoon if you want to just get a feel for heavy viscosity? Why is this important? Because the barrel strength products that we're going to taste have a lot of texture. And I want you to be able to do this, just to balance is it no texture, wet TechStars 38:00 Dry moist rough, smooth, you know oily thin, because it really plays a role. 38:08 The barrel notes that we're getting ready to taste as well should have kind of a heavy sweet feel on your mouth. Now there's always those basic flavors, you know bitter, salty, etc. So we're going for big, we're going for bold, we're going for robust, and so I want surround sound. I want kind of a heavy mouth feel. So when we taste these whiskeys, you can tell me what you think about that. 38:32 And then the other side of the fence from all the great things that we're talking about, is how to identify a bourbon that might be a little overload. Now I want to make it clear there is no bad whiskey out there. There's no bad bourbon, but at the same time, sometimes things can get a little overlooked. So in that one column on your flavor grid, it can go from Gosh, astringent, kind of causes you to pucker. So after you drink a 39:00 Whiskey if it kind of pulls your self in with your cheeks heat, too much warmth kind of burnt cinnamon flavor. So if I taste something that's too heavy and cinnamon, you know, I walk away from it. Cool. A little bit of mint is a good thing. If you feel like you squirted some Colgate in your mouth, not a good thing. Okay, so something can be too minty. So those are just three little variables that you can look for, to judge some of the over openness, which is very rare to find. But sometimes when I'm doing I'm also a spirits judge. So I taste a lot of whiskies and so sad, very sad. Sometimes I can taste the difference of something that's overlooked, versus one that maybe is too sharp hasn't been in the barrel long enough. All right. So with that, are you ready to eat eat? We have tested your tongue. We have it's like calisthenics, right? We've built you'd like an athlete right now. 40:00 We've trained you. So now we're going to put it all together and so closest to you knows the whiskey. The first one closest to you and tell me what you think. What do you think it is? This is cask strength, if that gives you a hint. 40:20 This is Maker's Mark cask strength. 40:23 And let me tell you, this is an engaging whiskey for me. I think it's very exciting to drink because it truly took on this whole other element by doing a cask strength. So again, credit where credit's due to the barrel, right? When you knows it. 40:43 Sure, it has some elements for me, like makers that I'm used to those elements being honey notes, really nice honey notes, some citrus notes. I normally get that with Maker's Mark Of course, and have a nice body of work. 41:00 Meet with Maker's Mark. But with this cask strength, I have to tell you, I get maple syrup. I get big spice bigger than makers normally has in a spice Would you agree? I also get some walnut and some pecan, little bit of nutty note 41:19 in some of this barrel note, tell me what you get in the nose, anybody. 41:25 And again, feel free to neutralize 41:28 clothes, absolutely see clothes are kind of that baseline, and then things come out from there. So I would definitely agree with that. 41:38 Little bit of that roasted marshmallow 41:42 that we talked about. 41:44 Alright, so now we're going to taste it and for those of you just to let you know this is between one and 114. So if the proof level seems to overpower you, I'm going to show you a little trick that you can do anytime and I 42:00 specifically do this when I'm pairing food because it helps really bring out the flavors. I would not suggest that you do this at a bar when you're trying to pick someone up. All right, but let me show you this one. 42:15 I take a little taste of it 42:18 and then I blow out. It releases some of the alcohol. And when you start talking after that, you'll really be able to taste it. So do a little taste, save some for your food. Just take a little tiny taste of it. But save the other half for the food pairing that we have done with it. That I immediately get that marshmallow. I mean just absolutely get little cinnamon from it. 42:44 Little maple syrup. I even get a tad bit of mint, 42:49 tad bit of mint, that that maple syrup really comes out for me. And that's why I just want to tell you what we paired today. Again, starting on your left to right we have a smoked duck 43:00 With a citrus sorghum on a corn waffle. Now, let me let me break down the layers. Here's why we did what we did. The smoke duck brought to me these wonderful earthy notes that we've been describing. For the last hour. The citrus notes when I was nosing this and tasting this, I get always get citrus from makers, always. So I wanted to add a little splash to that. That was important to me. And then the sorghum. I said, I get maple syrup. So we wanted to add a syrupy note to it. And that's the sorghum put it on a corn waffle. Because that helps with a little bit of that sweet toasted framework from the barrel. And so take a really big bite of that. It's a duck. Again, smoked duck even more important with citrus sorghum, take a bite of that and then take a sip of that whiskey and tell me what you think. 43:59 What 44:00 I was going for just to let you know normally when I train for food pairings in anybody who was with me last year, do you remember this chart that I showed? I go for either balance, counterbalance or what I call explosion. And I'm going to I'm going to tell you about that. Balance is when I'm trying to match flavors. I'm trying to create what I call harmony between the food and the whiskey. I'm trying to complement the flavors that are already taste in the whiskey. counter balance is when I might go the opposite direction. For example, like taking a Cajun pecan and drinking it with a white Riesling or Riesling wine rather, you know, it's it's sweet, too hot. We're not doing counterbalanced today simply because these are barrel proof. All right, barrel strength. explosion is when it's almost too much of a good thing. It's dramatically rich. It's surrounded 45:00 sound in your mouth, it's it's, it's just almost takes your head off. And we've got one example of that today, which is going to be our last one. All the lines simply mean the level of intensity. And so as we're talking and as we're tasting you know if I say gosh, I get honey notes or cinnamon notes, you could say gosh, what level you know, just small cinnamon notes are really really robust cinnamon note, because that's how you can manage the balance of your food and your whiskey. So that being said, let's go to the second one. They might want to guess what the second one is. 45:35 This one is plush. I promise you. 45:39 I'll give you a little hint. It has a very Admiral, admirable texture to it. 45:45 Big texture to it. Very elegant nose. Do you agree? 45:51 Very elegant nose. I immediately have to say I get on the spice data get all spice fruit notes. 46:00 Get from Apple to blackberry on these fruit notes Would you agree? Four roses. Excellent. This is four roses hundred proof, single barrel. 46:12 One of my favorites. So easy to pair with, because you have these big all spice cinnamon ginger notes to me, you know, whenever you have a lot of spice to play with. You can make anything taste good, I promise. But I do get some light chocolate notes. Vanilla caramel, 46:33 take a sip of it, and that's when the heat will hit the back of your throat but I get an earthy note along with it. So taste it and see what you think. Chocolate for sure. Absolutely you do. They might get the BlackBerry that referred to once you tasted that. Isn't that interesting? And what about the texture? Remember, I said admirably textured. What's your tongue doing right now? 47:01 Nice, heavy, wet, not too oily. It's a long sweet dry finish, which I like in a whiskey. 47:11 It's just impeccably balanced. So here's what we did on number two, and it's your middle, the middle appetizer in front of you. It is all spicy braised pork 47:26 with a barrel aged maple. Okay. 47:30 So try that. That pork. Again capturing the earthy note. But notice I said all spice because truly with four roses, I get a whole lot of all spice nutmeg, cinnamon, little clove, and I knew it would balance okay. You like that one? 47:52 Which one did you like better? The first one or the second one? 47:57 Second one. Okay. 48:00 Did you get the all spice balance the harmony of all that. 48:05 And again, four roses is 100 proof. So we didn't have to work too hard, you know to pair with a food and let the food flavors come through which is nice. Now take a little sip of water. Because the next one I dial that up a bit. I definitely doubt it up event. Does everybody remember me asking you to hang on to the other half of your MMA, Jessica? Okay, good. I'm glad you did. Because 48:35 I want you to knows that third glass and tell me what you think it is. 48:42 I mean, it is it's really dramatic. Dramatic knows, I have to say. 48:48 I was at a bourbon women function. It was called Heaslip she sips and we had blind tastings all over the room. And this barrel strength whiskey 49:00 was the favorite among women, which should not surprise me. You know, I'm in seven cities with bourbon women. We have thousands of members across the United States. And we always go for the more robust, heavier whiskies. It's very interesting to me. 49:16 But isn't that knows incredible? Do you get immediate kind of smoky Carmel? Pardon me? Yes, allows your Craig barrel string Very good. Very good. And I have been so impressed because it's just lavishly built. This whiskey is just lavish. 49:38 So I get the smoky notes, of course, I get the heavy Carmel notes. I also of course, get a little vanilla and believe it or not on the spice side of things, a touch of paprika. 49:55 And I get a little touch of paprika you know, not too strong, not too harsh. 50:00 very subtly balanced in that not like the four roses where I get more of the spice notes if you will. So what I decided to do with this because where you're going to, frankly just almost freak out is the texture of this whiskey. When you taste it, let it sit, swallow and let it come back to you. I think you're going to be impressed with the texture and then I'll tell you what I paired it with. Take a little sip. Do you see how that fills your entire mouth with texture from the tongue to the upper roof of your mouth, the cheeks, everything in its surround sound. 50:45 I get dark brown sugar. 50:48 And this is barrel strength. And how subtle 50:53 how subtle but dark brown sugar for sure. Huge vanilla. 51:00 Huge Carmel. 51:03 And the chocolate notes just screamed at me. Did they scream at you? 51:08 And that's why I couldn't help myself. Take that much Jessica, pop that thing in your mouth. Take a sip of this, but leave a little bit for the dessert that I came up with. This truly my husband and I were sampling the majestic is with this. It was the best sugar buzz I've had in quite some time. 51:26 Promise. What do you think of that? Now again, this is between 128 to 140 proof what I decided to pair with this because on the fruit note side, I certainly got Apple, but also got a lot of heavy red pair. So what we decided to do was a poached pair with dark chocolate and toasted marshmallow. 51:52 So it's almost like eating a Jessica cake. So when you get a chance for that don't even rent Don't waste your time. 52:01 Just go for that poached pair cake. It's the last one there. And take that last bit of Alaska with you. 52:11 Good. 52:13 And that crazy good as not as good as crazy good. 52:17 Now I am confident that you have a ton of questions for me and I'm happy to answer them. We covered so much track in an hour. I can't even believe how much we ate in an hour. I don't think since the moment you sat down, you've stopped chewing actually. Which is kind of a good thing with a food pairing. Right? Do you feel like we've identified some real flavors of the barrel? Does anybody have a new respect for barrel notes? That when somebody says, Oh, I get a barrel note, now you can be descriptive and say Oh, are you getting a little clove? Are you getting a little floral? What are you getting? And even more important, you can actually pair food with your barrel strength. 53:00 bourbon, or it doesn't even have to be barrel string, it could be a bourbon, just find out the age of the whiskey. And you'll know what kind of barrel notes because remember, you know, short barrel notes, probably two to four years, you know beyond four years, you're going to get more complexity, more barrel notes, which I'm not saying that every whiskey has to be old and aged. We're not like those scotch folks, that it has to be a 20 year whiskey. We like to drink our whiskey, you know, while we're still alive. So that's important. All right. And you probably are wondering 53:36 why the heck did she put out a little packet a Mentos say my wondering what we're gonna do with that. 53:43 Because by the time I've had you all eat all that you've eaten in the last hour, if you go talk to somebody outside, you're gonna need this. 53:51 Alright, so we will make sure that you take your Mentos so they don't blame it on me. All right. Any questions? y'all been such a great group today? Okay, that's 54:00 A good question he was asking, you know, between your bites of Food Sampling pairing going to the next one kind of what's the timing? What's the timing of it? And I will tell you, yeah, yeah, you just start chewing and then take a big swig of the Spirit. That's important. The other thing I purposely did that I probably should have told you, I paid attention to the flavors of the appetizers. And I went from light to heavy. And I tried to do that also with what you tasted on the plate when we were talking about, you know, dried cherries to bacon. Notice I had you eat a Jessica first before we went to liquid smoke. Because I want you to gradually build your taste buds. I want you to gradually think about how to, you know build flavors. absolutely wonderful. I hope you've enjoyed it and enjoy the rest of the Kentucky bourbon affair. And we'll talk soon. Thank you very much. Thank you. Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Looking for a simple and easy way to re-engage cold prospects? This week on The Inbound Success Podcast, Todd Earwood of MoneyPath and Webinar Works shares his playbook for using webinars to activate leads that have gone cold and convert them into paying customers.  So many marketers are already using webinars as part of their marketing mix, but Todd's playbook has some interesting twists that with minimal additional effort bring big returns. Listen to the podcast to learn exactly how Todd is using webinars to deliver big marketing ROI for clients across a variety of industries. Transcript Kathleen Booth (Host): Welcome back to The Inbound Success podcast.My name is Kathleen Booth, and I'm your host. This week, my guest is Todd Earwood, who is the CEO of MoneyPath. Welcome, Todd. Todd Earwood (Guest): Hey, thanks. Glad to be here, Kathleen. Todd and Kathleen recording this episode Kathleen: I'm glad to have you. Maybe you could start off by telling the listeners a little bit about yourself, and about MoneyPath? Meet Todd Earwood Todd: Sure thing. I am CEO of MoneyPath. I started this, what looks like an agency, really more consulting side, in the last five years. Before that, I started my career with a billion dollar CEO that I was targeting, a job coming out of grad school, and I called in for 43 straight days until he finally gave me an interview. And there for three years, and then he said, "Todd, man, you're really wired for entrepreneurship, so why don't you build or buy a business?" And thankfully I followed his lead. So I've been building marketing software, for the next 12 to 15 years, and then after we sold that last company, I got encouraged by an investor, that said, "You really should be helping other people with their sales and marketing, and how you bring those folks together, you're really good." And Kathleen, that was offensive to me, because I thought I was a software guy. And he said, "You're really not. You happen to build software. Why don't you apply those elsewhere?" And so that's what I've been doing with MoneyPath the last five years. Kathleen: Great, and can you tell me a little bit more about exactly what MoneyPath does for its clients? Todd: Sure, so we're focused on the five to 25 million dollar revenue range, it's that size company, who already has established businesses. They've already committed some sins in marketing and sales, and they want to start saying, "How do I fix what I have today? And what campaign should I be looking at? That fixes each of of the stage of the funnel?" The common principles of inbound are still there, I'm just looking at it as scale perspective of how can I help a sales team that might have 15 people already, not their first two, right? And how do you deploy and roll that out, and then help build those marketing assets in the different stages of the funnel? And then we have a strong engineering team on the back end to make sure your systems ... 'cause typically you've committed a lot of technical sins by that point, and we need to help clean them up so you get great reporting, so you know where you should be headed, and is it actually working? Using Webinars to Reengage Cold Prospects Kathleen: Got it, and now when you and I first spoke, you talked to me about some really interesting research that your team has done on things like webinars. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Todd: Sure thing. So, it was three years ago, and because I'd come from the SaaS world, building software companies, they're some of the best content marketers, 'cause they have to be, if you're doing, I think if you're growing, especially B2B SaaS company. So what we did was we opted in to the top 300 SaaS companies in the world, including HubSpot. And we saw how did they treat a cold lead, and what do they do? And I hired two data scientists to help me go in and say, "What are the structures of their email? What is the content of their email? What time did they send it? What day of the week?" And then most important, "What is their objective?" And what we came out with was, lots of fascinating data, we've now analyzed 25,000 plus emails over 600 companies, and what we found was the number one thing of course was content, typically inbound content, right? They weren't selling, this was a cold lead. But the number two thing was webinars, and that made me go down a whole different path, saying, "That's an old technology, are people really doing webinars?" And the big companies were. And they were doing several things that made me say, "They're not doing it perfectly, but I can take what they're doing, and I think really help my clients, by updating a modern webinar," even, as we all know, it's not a new technology. And how to you update a modern twist on a webinar to be a great content asset? And that's what we're doing, it's actually bringing together marketing and sales. Kathleen: Wow. I want to start with by asking you a little bit more about, you opted into how many companies? Todd: We started with 300. Kathleen: Oh my gosh. Todd: And we did this manually, I screen shotted every single landing page, every offer, what the titles were, what the deliverable was, how many pages they sent me if it was an ebook. What was their cadence of follow up. And again, as you can imagine, we quickly outgrew Excel, and said this is too much, and that made me to seek out ... it was far greater then even the engineers on my team could do, this was what a data scientist really needed to do, with a million plus points of data. Down to how many characters should the subject line be? What's the cadence? How long should each word be? Is there nine words or five words? Right? Do they capitalize them or not? And really, the data scientists helped me add a real scientific approach to what a marketer would do to say, "I can quantify it loosely, I can stare it and assemble," you know, kind of get an idea of what they're doing, and they added real science to it, which has led us to a lot of interesting insights. Kathleen: That is so fascinating, although it also feels like it's the stuff of nightmares, because I'm terrified to think about what my email inbox would look like if I did that, and it kind of gives me the shivers. Todd: I understand. Again, by getting guidance from them, on how to do this in a scientifically structured way, we quickly had to adapt our plans to say, "Okay, we're gonna do it this way." And now it's something thing literally we do every week. We update our model, that they built for us, was more and more ... and these emails never stop coming. Kathleen: Yeah. They sure don't. Not until you unsubscribe. And that's a whole other study. Todd: That's a whole other study, and then we did the same thing in 2016, for all the presidential candidates, before the primary, because I wanted to see what would they be doing, if you thought you were seeking the highest, most powerful position in the world, surely you would deploy the best resources. And the answer was, there are many answers there, many findings, but it wasn't ... it was very different for us, in how they marketed, as you can imagine, but several learnings there, too. So, we love to study research. Kathleen: That's so fascinating. So, you subscribe to these 300 companies' marketing emails, and you discovered that what percentage did you say was doing webinars? Todd: Well, it was, there were 12 types of emails, in regards to content, or intent, and webinars was the second most popular of the biggest and best test companies. So an external party made it easy on me, they already ranked these 300, I just opted in, and used their model to find the best, and went from there. Kathleen: Now, do you have a theory as to why webinars were such a popular approach? Todd: Well, I do have theories. Number one, bigger corporations can have more resources to take the time to build a webinar. Number two, it's something that brings together sales and marketing. They're good at PowerPoint, they're good at email, so it marries those really well together. Kathleen: And did you find that the webinars were being used more at the top of the funnel, the middle of the funnel, the bottom of the funnel, were there any patterns as far as where in that buying journey the webinars tended to be focused? Todd: Phenomenal question. It was mostly top. Which was a mistake, we learned. You can deploy them in different stages of the funnel. Re-engagements are one of the best ways, on a cold list, and a list that's gone cold. Webinars are phenomenal for that, which would typically be in the middle. But they're focusing on the top. Almost nine times out of 10, it was top. Kathleen: And in every case, you had already opted in, so they weren't necessarily doing the webinar to attract a new contact, although maybe they were, but in your case you had opted in, and so the point was to really take you in the next step in your journey. Tell me a little bit more about, were there any patterns, in terms of the type of content, the setup? I mean, I have so many questions, I'm not exactly sure where to start. Todd: Sure. I think there were several patterns. The one thing they did right was they targeted a specific persona in their webinars. Now thing, they've got resources, so they can crank out a bunch, right? Even though they crank them out slow. They got resources to crank out webinars, because most marketers say, "Well, that takes a lot of time." Kathleen: Yeah. Todd: I'm gonna choose a different marketing campaign over webinar. We've helped minimize that with our formula. But, they were very smart to target specific personas that would repel away the other people that don't fit that persona, in their title. Their titles were weak, so we helped them ... we took that model and said, "What if we used smarter hooks, and combined that with focusing on a persona?" And that's been really powerful. Kathleen: So give me an example of the weak title, versus the kind of title that you might develop for a client. Todd: So, the number one thing we talk about, from a psychology standpoint, is humans will go to the ends of the earth, to avoid pain. So instead of the top five ways to grow your X, that will not drive registrations, we've tested it, time and time again. If you say, "The top five mistakes," right? "That middle," or "Medium," you know, I'm trying to think of a good one. I don't want to use my client's real ... some of them I can't use. But, top five mistakes, right? That healthcare director, hospital directors, are making with emergency care services. Super narrow, right? So if you focus in, you say okay, well you're a hospital director, you're not a CEO, you're not a CMO, and you have emergency care, and that's a problem for you? That person will gravitate to you. Does that make sense? Kathleen: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting that you say that, because I was told once that webinar titles that do well tend to resemble blog titles that do well. Todd: Yes. Of course they do. So, we use the ... as humans, again, if I think about human behavior, and marketers, we've totally jumped in on this boat, we know up each other. So, the top 15 ways to make HubSpot do X, and then someone else next month will do the top 32 ways. Kathleen: Yeah. Todd: So, we all like lists, right? We know that content can work. So I think whoever told you that's right, because we've latched onto that model, and it's really important for actually making your content structure be something that makes it easy to repurpose later. That's another massive value, is that we're changing the game, and it's not ever about the live event. We as marketers get hung up on, "How many registrations did I have? How many attended?" That's important, but the true measure is can I create an asset that will have a long shelf life for me. Typically beyond a year. And what are the replay, what do the views look like? How can I repurpose that content into 15 other pieces of content, if I'm gonna take all that effort to create the webinar? Kathleen: Yeah. Now, if I came to you as a prospective client, or a client, and I said I wanted to do a webinar, talk me through, how would you work with me on developing that campaign, and what needs to go around the webinar to promote it? Todd: Sure. Number one, we're gonna talk about personas. Who are your targets? What do your lists look like? Right? And then, what stage of the funnel do you want to target? Everybody thinks top. "No, no, no, I want to grow my list. I want to grow my list. I want to access a bigger audience." And I would say, "I understand that. Everybody want to do that. But, I will tell you that webinars are a great funnel accelerator, and we should probably," ... the first thing if I had to, and you're gonna buy into my theory, I would say, "Let's go to your re-engagement campaign." That is the easiest, easiest thing to do with a webinar today. And it works, literally, we've done it 17 plus industries now, right? 80% B2B, 20% B2C. I would tell you, let's go for a re-engagement campaign, of people on your list today, and then the next thing I'm gonna do is say, "You're either not gonna call it a webinar, 'cause people are tired of webinars. Or you're gonna call it a private webinar, and you're not allowed to post it on social media." Kathleen: Huh, interesting, so give me an example of that. How would you use that? I'm so curious. Todd: I'll use a real life example, there is a company, a software company that does applicant tracking, and they serve two specific industries, and I said, "Well, you have to pick one." They said, "We don't wanna pick one." "You have to. That's part of the formula. You have to pick a niche." And inside that we said, top five mistakes that security companies make with blank, right? That was the formula of the hook. We targeted their dead, cold list, and the awesome outcome, after they followed this through was, this is literally, Kathleen, one of my favorite stories. At the end, what they found was, they had someone respond to the email, where they'd offered more information the follow up response, same day, "Thank you so much. I never knew you guys existed." This person had been in their CRM for three years, opted in at a trade show, with a business card in the fishbowl. Sales reps had been assigned to this person. Called him, fourth largest prospect in their industry, and the CEO, who is who they emailed, had never heard of them. Kathleen: Wow. Todd: And he ends up signing a contract, worth six figures, and now this person never would have heard of them, and he was on the list, and they'd done everything they possibly could in marketing and sales to get him, but the webinar's what re-engaged him. Kathleen: So, do you attribute the fact that he said he had never heard of them to him getting the past emails and just ignoring them or..what was the differential? Todd: That's how they assess it but what they really were seeing os that, I, after talking to them going through the example if you were to come to me, I would say this campaign although a lot of marketers think it takes a lot of time, I can help you around that, but, it's got one of the highest intent. If you're going to go to a cold list, and you get anybody to sit through a 45 minute webinar, right? And you've targeted a niche with your hook, then you should have someone who's willing to sit there really be either they have lots of time on their hands, or they really are the prospect you want, so it's also great when people have a list, and they go "I'm right next to a percent of that is". If you write the right title and the right hook, it will attract the right people and now they're offering you their time at more than an eight minute blog post read or open and click an email. The sales reps love it 'cause now you're handing them a more qualified lead 'cause you know who they are, they attended this webinar on this topic and they stayed for 45 minutes. Kathleen: You're, if I'm understanding correctly, you're beginning with your most highly un-engaged prospects, you are zeroing in on one specific persona and you're coming up with a title that is obviously toward that persona almost like you're mentioning them in the title- Todd: Most of the times we do. Kathleen: -talk X solutions for so and so and you're, what you're seeing is that they're responding because it is so specific to them. Todd: It's so specific and you said, we're offering either an educational series on X, that's another way of putting it, you can try to, don't use the webinar name! For some people it's a negative connotation and last week, I was at Go to Webinar's headquarters and we were talking about different key metrics and 20 percent of people sign up for webinars just with the intent of watching the replay. By taking out the "hey this is an educational series on this interesting topic" if you're really the marketer who cares about the attendees at the really core measurement of our why, then that's a great way to do it is either make it, call something a webinar so they don't think it's a replay for one or number two, right, say it's a private webinar. People are more likely to come in because they know it's not being promoted everywhere so don't put it on your website, don't put it on social media. Kathleen: Now, in either of these cases, describe for me the method you're using to promote the webinar. Is it just email? Todd: In this case in the re-engagement obviously it would typically be email. I've got people that want to do top of funnel, that are doing paid media to go strictly to a registration page or the advanced people frankly will go to content, retargeting, retargeting goes to after you've actually taken some action but you haven't entered the funnel by opting in yet. You had then re-target that person due webinar but I would do step one is content, step two you got to that page, re-target them with the webinar. Kathleen: What I hear you describing is basically creating content related to the topic of the webinar, seeding that out in social for example and then if somebody bites on that you can re-target them with an actual webinar ad, is that right? Todd: That's right and think of it this way, if you really break down what a webinar is, at it's core beyond the invites and how you get them to there, at the end, for most of us, it's a PowerPoint. It's a PowerPoint that we record. A lot of people don't even put their face on here, it's just their voice and then record it and now it's a video asset. I think if you think about a webinar and you take out the live event, there are lots of things you can do where I've got clients who don't feel, frankly, comfortable, almost like stage fright where they don't want there-obviously Kathleen you're not one of them 'cause you wouldn't sit here and talk to me and we're staring at each other, BUT! Some people are scared of that so they'll go "please, I don't want to do it live, I don't want to do it live." Okay, so we'll record it and we just don't do the fake, nonsensical "oh there's 700 people in this webinar, thanks for being here." We don't do the fake stuff, instead we just say let's, it's gated content. Kathleen: Yeah. Todd: You took the time to create that PowerPoint deck, you used our formula to make it engaging and I'm going to give you the bookends if don't want to do the invite with paid or email or whatever, social, right? At least you're going to build this great asset, you're going to gate it and have proper follow up because we're great at inside of our content formula we're doing specific things for segmentation. Kathleen: What is your formula for making a webinar engaging? Todd: Well, there's two key parts. There's probably 22 but the two core parts today for brevity's sake is, number one, I'll tell you that I'm the son of a Minister. Imagine whether you go to church or you don't if you can imagine going to a church and my Dad were to greet you at the door and then he were to make the announcements and sing a song and say a prayer ask for your money, right? Give the sermon, get you to come down forward and all that, it would be very odd for someone, one individual person to try to do that but at webinars that's what most of us are doing! We have one voice, they don't even see our faces and somehow one voice is supposed to hold that engagement and attention and it's damned near impossible. What we suggest is, it's a two person minimum, three person maximum game. I am the host, Kathleen you are the thought leader. I am the emcee, you're speaking at a conference, I get to tell them all the great things about your bio, you don't need to stand up and say how awesome you are 'cause you're awesome. I can do that for you as your emcee and I can do the housekeeping and that keeps you high up on the thought leader throne when you're telling us and educating us about these top five points and so that's the number one thing. If you can get more and more attention by using two people instead of one. Kathleen: Okay. Todd: The second thing is, use polls! Todd: It's an easy feature. Our webinar clients are getting 60 plus percent people to actually click a button on a poll. We do a front end poll before the content, we bookend them. Front end before the content begins, the emcee- Kathleen: Front end in the webinar? While they're waiting to start? Todd: Yeah, so you're going through the housekeeping, you're telling them the big takeaways they're' going to get, you get them interested in it. "When you attend our webinar you're going to walk away and be able to tell your boss X and here are the three main points you're going to learn today." A-B-C. Hit them with the value and then say "to get us started and to make sure everybody's tools are working correctly, I'm about to ask you a softball question that everybody can answer that is not personal but it gets you engaged and it gets you clicking the buttons and paying attention." We go through the content formula and at the end, 'cause you're the thought leader, I'm the host, I thank you Kathleen, for teaching us all these great things 'cause I'm the emcee and I say "guys, I'm so interested to see what you think about this content and this segmentation piece" not only are they engaging but this is how you're going to segment them. You then ask the question with three to four multiple choice questions and there's two ways of doing it. The best way I've seen is "now that you've learned about this content that Kathleen has shared with us, what are the actions you're most likely to take next?" You are now measuring the temperature of the lead. "Interesting topic, I need to research more." Not warm, right? Kathleen: Yeah. Todd: "I like this, I need to hand it off to a colleague." Medium warm, maybe a little warm, right? That's also not a decision maker you discovered. Kathleen: Right. Todd: Finally it's "I can't wait to go implement, I've got to learn more now". If you use those kind of poll answers, sales reps love it. Now, when you think about all the, we work so hard as marketers to build these great leads and to nurture them properly, this is something when you go to a marketer and say "they spent 42 minutes on a webinar, I held their attention, Kathleen educated them on this topic, on these top five mistakes and they said they need to figure how to implement it", I know many sales people who would love to follow up that kind of lead. Kathleen: Now, I imagine that if you do this and the system is working and you're using the right software or tech stack you'll be able to see who said what at the end and of course, kind of capture that. Do you have a system then for post webinar, how the follow up occurs and how you close the loop? Todd: Absolutely. We look at it as there's three big buckets and the third, everyone forgets. Number one, we're all as marketers going to follow up the people that attended, of course we do, right? That's a good one to follow up with. I'm usually using a three email sequence on that. The second one is, of those who registered but did not attend. Again, GoToWebinars says "20 percent of those people are only there for the replay", so give it to them. Now, offer that replay in a replay room that should be gaited, if you're using HubSpot its automatically gonna auto fill most of the fields on the form anyways for them. Click through and now they're watching video, right? What I also do though is you're missing out on "what's your replay follow up sequence?" Kathleen: Yeah. Todd: Treat 'em like an attendee now. So take your original attendee sequence and update it to know that they didn't watch it live so make sure the messaging doesn't fall down there, but then have an attendee, now that they've watched the replay, you can trigger those emails. Todd: The third one that we all seem to forget for some reason is, go back to your list of those who did not register and say "we know that 20 percent of people who come to webinars were here to watch a replay, maybe that day didn't work for you, but we were so happy about the results that came from this we thought it would be valuable to you, so we're going to offer this for a limited time for you to go see the replay now." Again, it's gated content but people don't ever email those people again. Kathleen: That's so true. Yeah. Todd: It's an easier way to pick up more views, more leads and then what we're doing is putting web forms on the landing page of the replay room, right? There's other tools now that GoToWebinar has where they can actually embed all that together for you, you don't even have to use super landing pages but as marketers we want to style it the way we want so we do anyways..BUT! There's ways to do that and I think it's a great opportunity to get more traction with whoever. Kathleen: Going back to the issue of the tech stack, you mentioned HubSpot, is GoToWebinar your preferred platform for webinars? Todd: It is. It's, and here's why, you know you've got the ON24's of the world where you can spend 15 to 25,000 dollars a year and they'll create content for you (which they really won't) but they'll help you put things together and that's a great enterprise solution that a lot of people can't afford. GoToWebinar is above the middle for sure, but I like GoToWebinar because I know it's going to work. Kathleen: Yeah. Todd: It was built for the intent of a webinar and there's other people who built meeting software, right? That's what GoToWebinar used to be. They came out of GoToMeeting but they've actually got software with the full intent, the full feature set for webinars, all the bells and whistles, it works, it has syncing to almost all of the marketing animation tools we love and so that's my tool of choice. Todd: Zoom obviously has features, I have clients that use Zoom, we're on Zoom right now! GoToWebinar is my preferred method because I know it's going to work and it's got every feature you would ever want with a webinar. Kathleen: Yeah, you know it's interesting. I've used GoToWebinar a lot, it is a great platform. I wish their integration with HubSpot was deeper because I would love to be able to send confirmation emails to people through HubSpot so that it had my branding but instead it comes from GoToWebinar, so that's the only thing I really don't like about GoToWebinar is if you want to have 360 degrees of brand control and you're using HubSpot with it, you can't really get that at this stage. Todd: You know, it's interesting. They've put in a request for the last four months for HubSpot to update to their new API and when they do we'll get all those things we want as marketers. Kathleen: Oh, that'll be great. Todd: HubSpot is actually saying it's on their next, by end of year, they're hopefully going to move over. Kathleen: Wow. Wow. Todd: I think it's coming so let's just iron this out of next year. Kathleen: Yeah. Todd: For all parties involved but that's actually coming out so, I'm with you. We want that brand control, that is a downfall for sure and I've kind of conceded that because I want all the other great elements- Kathleen: Yeah! Todd: -of GoToWebinar but I've had to concede the confirmation emails. That's the one I've conceded. Kathleen: Well- Todd: I'm totally with you. Kathleen: -I'll say, we do a lot of webinars here at IMPACT and my team has demoed just about every platform their is. There is no one perfect platform -- there just isn't. Todd: No. Kathleen: I mean, which is huge market opportunity for anybody who can solve for it but- Todd: Absolutely. Its the way the tech stack is today for us as marketers -- they need to talk seamlessly, but they talk at an 80 to 90 percent level if you're lucky, like HubSpot and GoToWebinar do. I will tell you that it's enough for me to add that extra hassle. Again, I'm conceding that because I wish the innovation was a little better and let's hope it gets there soon. Kathleen: Now, taking a step back, you have kind of described your webinar playbook, or your system, that you use, and I know you've used this with quite a few other clients, and other companies. Describe for me some of the results you've been able to get. Todd's Webinar Playbook Results Todd: Sure thing, so we've done, you know, our initial test, when we went out, was we tested 17 different industries. And those were not just our existing clients, we went out and said, "Well who else could we apply this to?" So we've done everything from the B2C side, where we're targeting pregnant mothers. We've targeting enterprise healthcare CEOs of people who have 50 or more hospitals. We've targeting NCAA coaches. So that's an interesting one right there. Todd: There's someone who has software for NCAA football coaches. Pretty narrow, there's only 320, or if you start- Kathleen: Yeah, that's a really small market. Todd: Right, but expensive and they've taken something from the NFL and applied it to the NCAA to expand their market. Super interesting product. Hadn't been doing webinars, they come to me, "Here's what we want to do." Complete cold outreach. To the sales people, you know how this goes too, Kathleen. They wouldn't let us email the hot leads. "No, no, I'm taking care of that." Todd: And I was like, "No, I can really help you," but we emailed the cold, and what we found was we could get, in the university sector, there are, if you look at athletics, they're the power five conferences, which now you're even narrowing it further than- Kathleen: Yeah. Todd: Down, right? To 70 or 80 teams, and we were able to pick up three of the top 20 largest schools in America, who were interested in their product, who had never heard of them before. Strictly cold, they have tried ... they had not yet tried trade shows, 'cause it's a new market development, and they got not only hey, someone to attend, but demo follow ups, which was their metric of ultimate success, is they know if they get to a demo, where they're gonna go in their sales process. So we've been able to do that. But now, the company who's targeting pregnant mothers, this is an automated webinar. Again, think gated content, we're not doing the fake stuff, right? We're not doing all that nonsense. But what we are doing is saying, they've got a cycle where literally you're going to be pregnant for nine months, maybe. So they've got really a five month window to convert you into their product. It's a breast pump. Excuse me, it's a breast pump. So, they've got this cycle of new prospects coming constantly into their funnel, and what they found was by taking an automated messaging approach, when someone came in, but didn't purchase and do follow up cart abandonment, they found great success. Kathleen: Oh, that's great. So, it sounds like in the case of the second example you mentioned, it's not even a re-engagement approach, just because if it's pregnant mothers, I assume they don't have enough time to get unengaged, they gotta get- Todd: Right. Kathleen: At the beginning. Todd: Right. Yeah, re-engagement is only ... I started with that because it's the lowest hanging fruit, and if you ... I tried to be true to the example of if you came to me and a lot of people are skeptic, because webinars aren't new, is they're skeptic, and I say, "Hey, I know what I can prove to you, these are cold leads, found money, let me do that for you." But no, we're doing it bottom of funnel, and I think if you think about creating an asset, that's what we're trying to do, we're creating that asset. And at the end, if you follow our top five, or top three mistakes, on how to avoid pain, we've structured the content so you can splinter that out, repurpose it as separate different assets, whether it be blog posts or videos, and that's where you use the bottom funnel approach, when you can arm your sales force, or your bottom of funnel email sequence, with extra content, like, "Here's a video about a very esoteric issue," that you know that prospect has, right? That's a great way, sales people love having those assets and markers, that you can just hand to them if you follow that formula, because now we can cut up that content, and really give them something thing very valuable at the bottom of the funnel. Kathleen: Now, you just made me think of something. So, you create this asset, which is the recorded webinar. It's living behind a gate on your site. Do you have a playbook for how to promote that then, to a cold audience. Do you do any non-email promotion for that? Todd: Oh sure. I think of it as a timer, right? So I want it to ... I want that asset to be valuable over more than 12 months is the goal. We should do that. Some people are now doing it two plus years, still using that evergreen content. So what we would try to do there is the playbook, some people will say, "I'm gonna make five blog posts out of that. I want the organic traffic out of that," but what we do is say, "Give that replay, that gated content, some time." You've not, if you've done my model, you've not promoted on social previously, probably. You've done a private webinar, email only on phase one, phase two is, now I'm gonna promote it on my website, and I'm gonna have a social push behind it, email's not really involved. You're just getting your existing organic traffic coming in. And then step three is, I'm now going to create other content, like blog posts, transcribe the webinar, splinter that into five separate things. Or, what people are doing is, if you've got the video capabilities, like I know you guys have and we have, is we're gonna make a highlight reel around that topic, and use that as a teaser on the gated organic page, that's just linked on your website. That's the teaser to get you to sign up and watch the replay. Kathleen: Oh, that's great. I like that a lot. Todd: Yeah, so there's a lot of plays you can run. Kathleen: Do you feel that this approach works in any industry? Todd: I mean, when the breast pump versus the enterprise CEO model work, versus the NCAA coach. We did a food engineers, which was fascinating, because knew nothing, literally nothing about the topic, all they talked about was really deep science. So I'm convinced at this point that any industry can work. It doesn't matter, really, the size of the company. I've told you about where we target out clients, but we've got small startups that are doing this, and we've got large enterprise companies who have gigantic lists, and frankly, they don't want to take the time to create all those man hours of creating a webinar, and they're ... and the landing pages, and the branding elements. All that takes a lot of time, so we focused heavily on building a few tools to minimize that content production time. Kathleen: Oh, okay, what kind of tools? Todd: So, if you buy our training kit, our playbook, we actually have several tools. One of which is, we're using this for ourselves, so we're now we obviously had to offer it to other people, is we're gonna take you through one of our three playbooks, whichever one you choose, and we built literally a web form software, that if you answer the questions, it will kick out the PowerPoint, with the notes associated for presenting, with the tips on how to present the topic for the host, right? And the thought leader. And if you do that, like now, you've brought the barrier down, all you have to do is style the PowerPoint. And we're going as far in phase two, is to push a button, and go create all the workflows for me, and hub spot, and the event, and GoToWebinar/Zoom, or whatever you prefer. Kathleen: Wow that is so cool, I'll definitely have to include the link to that in my show notes (check it out here), so we can all test it out. That's awesome. Well, Todd, thank you for sharing all the different you know, ideas and strategies that you're using with webinars. I love the idea, myself, of using the webinar to specifically target unengaged contacts, that's something that I haven't really tested out before. Kathleen's Two Questions Kathleen: I want to shift gears now, and my listeners know that I always ask everybody the same two questions in my podcast, so now it's your turn. First question is, company or individual, who do you think is doing inbound marketing really well right now? Todd: Man, I ... there's a lot of folks that are doing it really well. I'll tell you a clever twist, I think someone who's a little non-traditional, but his name is Jason Swenk. His messenger bot trick that he's got, where he's replaced his Contact Us page, is just something so awesome, because it's fun, and it's playful, it's definitely on brand, and he's not promoting it, it's just literally organic traffic's coming in, right? And he's able to convert and do the messaging, you know the marketing messaging that we like now, with bots, he's doing in a very clever way, so I love what Swenk's doing. Kathleen: He actually was a guest on my podcast. Todd: Of course he was, yes. Kathleen: And he talked about that. Todd: Yeah, Swenk is just like, he's a good guy, and I just think it's super clever, what he's doing. Kathleen: Yeah. That's great. Well, the other thing I always ask, and it's purely out of my own curiosity. You know, the world of digital marketing is changing so quickly these days, and everyone, a lot of times I hear people describe it as drinking from a fire hose. I'm curious, how do you stay up to date on everything? How do you keep yourself educated and on the cutting edge? Todd: I think two ways. Number one, I try to ignore part of the noise. So, I've decided that I'm gonna be great at several elements of marketing, and that's where I'm gonna focus hard on. As you can tell, webinar's one of my choices, right? The second thing is, I have staff, my team members, who are splinting that up into different areas, where we have a quarterly report where you're gonna talk about social, what's happening social, and we bring it back to each other, and we try the divide and conquer method, where we keep just rolling Google documents, now funny to see when you go look at what we thought was new, two years ago, right? Because I've told people, as marketers we get a lot of asks, and we get a lot of tasks. And so when you gotta wear 72 hats, we can't all be great at all these different things. As a company, we're gonna be great at a few things, and as a team, we're gonna educate ourselves, and keep our eyes out, but we're trying to stay in one lane, for each of us, and bring it back to the group. Kathleen: Yeah, it's tough, I mean, similarly I have a team, and thank god for Slack, and we're just always sharing articles in Slack for each other, and I'm not sure that there's anybody who could read it all, but it's- Todd: That's right. It's overwhelming. It is the fire hose. So, as long as you can accept you're never going to keep up with everything, I think, for us, this is the best method we got of dividing and conquering. Kathleen: Yeah, makes sense. Well, if somebody's been listening and they have questions for you, or they want to learn more, what is the best way for them to find you online? Todd: Yeah, they an go to Webinar Works, plural, to any of the social places, or WebinarWorks.co is the website, not com, it's dot C-O co, and there's a page there for your listeners, slash inbound, where you can see how you stack up, there's a greater tool to figure out, there's all kinds of links to other resources, that I think if you're interested in webinars, you can find out a lot more there, with tons of resources to get you started. Kathleen: Great, I'll put that link into the show notes (click here to check it out). Well thank you so much, Todd. This has been interesting, it definitely gave me some new ideas on how I can use webinars, and I'm sure that everyone listening got some new tips. I appreciate it. Todd: Thank you so much Kathleen, and I appreciate you. Kathleen: Thanks. And if you are listening, and you like what you heard, please give us a review on Apple podcasts, or the platform of your choice. It makes a huge difference, especially for small podcasts like this one. And if you know someone who's doing kick ass inbound marketing work, tweet me at @WorkMommyWork, because they could be the next person I interview. Thanks for listening.

Sponsored by oh boy we’re still doing this bit? Thats cool. ----more---- The gang's back together after an indeterminate length of time has passed since the last movie. But they are still the characters you know from the first, we didn't go and rewrite them into basically new strangers and make the character development of the entire last film pointless. That’d be really incompetent storytelling right? Right? Do you see what I’m doing? It’s like a whole thing, like a joke, because the first movie did that. The first prequel, Phantom Menace, that movie. Also the 50’s diner shows up as a central set piece.  

Are you looking at your career goals to achieve the best year ever? In this interview, Roz Usheroff talks about 7 deadly traps that really limit us from achieving our true potential. We don’t always realize how we limit ourselves, opportunities and future with actions and thoughts that get in our way of achieving success. Roz shares her expertise of working with Fortune 500 companies worldwide applies how she helps her clients to the advice and insights in this interview. This is your time, feel inspired, stop falling into these traps and unleash your true potential! How to Recognize and Banish 7 Deadly Traps The Superwoman Trap. Women in this trap own the belief that they must be all things to everyone.  They continually set new goals and standards, raising the bar daily for themselves.  There is no such word as “no” because they believe that they can do the impossible.  Burnout is high for women in this trap. The Good Girl/Likability Trap. Women have a strong desire to be liked by others and often seek the support of others, inserting into their conversation approval-seeking phrases such as; “Okay? Ya know? Right? Do you agree?”  Women will also use apologetic words to be liked.  “I’m sorry” seems to be a common language with this trap. The Opinion Trap. A carry-over of the Likability Trap is the Opinion trap.  Many women soften their message by expressing it as their ‘Opinion’ and not as fact or a firmly held belief.  Fearing what will happen if they say how they truly feel about a subject or share fully their thoughts or opinions, for fear they will be rejected.  The Bossy Trap. Women often worry that if they are too assertive, they would be described as bossy - or worse, aggressive. Women are often reluctant to be seen as too assertive, fearing that we will be perceived negatively.  Because women also worry about being too pushy, they wait for it to be their turn to speak, which often limits an opportunity to promote their idea, service or product.  The Dr. Jekyll and Ms. /Mr. Hyde Trap. Women have the tendency to take things too personally, emotionally react (internally or externally) resulting in loss of credibility.   For example, at the beginning of a meeting, a woman will demonstrate calm, poise, enthusiasm, etc. – all positive traits.  However, if the same woman is made to feel devalued, her mood and demeanor changes dramatically.  This may result in her withdrawing, appearing aloof, or annoyed, confrontational and defensive.  This behavior will cause her to be viewed as “emotional” rather than professional.  The Perfectionist Trap. Women who fall into this trap set standards that can never be met. They are never satisfied unless they do everything with perfection.  They judge others in a similar fashion. Because perfection is not always clearly defined, these women live with the expectation that perfection is the way to live life. The Imposter Trap. Notwithstanding expertise, experience and wisdom, women live with the fear that they are imposters and their inadequacies will be exposed one day. This causes them to worry about being humiliated, demoted or terminated. As a result, a woman may not take a stand for what she believes in, speak up with confidence or take greater initiative in meetings.  Worse yet, women don't apply for new career opportunities unless they feel they have 100% of all the qualifications. Recognize yourself in any of these traps?  Don’t worry!  Listen to the full interview and hear how you can overcome them and move forward this year and become empowered. Take Action!  New Year, New You-Art of Wow with Roz Usheroff.  There is limited space, and if you act now you may be one of the lucky ones to walk away with an incredible new outlook for 2018. If you would like to find more interviews like this one, please visit www.rockyourtradeshow.com where you will find tips, advice and downloads to help empower your personal and professional lives. Credits: Roz Usheroff has appeared on national television - NBC, CBC, BTV and has authored three books, the most recent, “THE FUTURE OF YOU: Creating your Enduring Brand”.  Her greatest joy is in coaching women on how to toot their own horn with presence and confidence and position themselves for success. I would like to offer my sincerest gratitude to Roz for providing the content for this episode and blog post! Thank you as always to Christy Haussler and Team Podcast for editing this episode.        

We get sick! The unexpected happens. What if we can't just call in sick and watch Price is Right? Do you have any fears of the unexpected in your job?

Are you a frustrated single who feels like you'll never find Mr Right? Do you want to put an end to 'dating drama' and start dating productively? Meet The Dating Coach, Michelle Barnum Smith who has been featured in Forbes, Business Insider, Expert Beacon and on several TV and Radio Shows. In this show Michelle shares insider secrets on: The perils of hope dating How to build a dating plan Creating your product for dating Determining who is best for you ... and much more! Over the last year, Michelle has taught over 1000 singles her secrets of how to acquire a relationship in 8 weeks or less! Get clear on how to define your dating strategy and attract Mr Right into your life!