Podcast appearances and mentions of john follis

In this episode of United States of Small Business, host John Quick sits down with filmmaker John Follis to discuss his thought-provoking documentary, "Leaving God." Follis shares the inspiration behind the film and reveals how his personal journey away from his Catholic upbringing influenced its creation. They delve into the surprising findings from his research, offering an unbiased look at America's cultural shift away from religion. The conversation continues with Follis reflecting on the impact of winning the Hollywood International Documentary Film Award and how this recognition has affected both his personal and professional life. They discuss the film's unexpected surge in viewership after being featured on topdocumentaryfilms.com, and what this means for his future projects. Tune in for an insightful discussion on faith, culture, and the power of storytelling in shaping our understanding of the world around us. Watch his film here: https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/leaving-god/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/usofsmallbusiness/support

Join Host John Quick as we explore the riveting journey of John Follis on this episode of our podcast. Dive into the early days of Follis in the advertising world, tracing his path from facing repeated rejections and the adversity of being fired four times, to the triumphant establishment of his own advertising agency. His story is a testament to the power of resilience, creative vision, and the unwavering pursuit of excellence in the face of challenges. We delve into the remarkable moment when John was honored at the White House, a testament to his significant contributions and achievements. Through his narrative, John imparts invaluable wisdom and advice to entrepreneurs, offering insights into navigating the ever-evolving landscape of advertising and business. His experiences illuminate the journey of adapting, overcoming obstacles, and ultimately achieving success in the competitive world of business. Check out John's work here: https://www.follisinc.com/options.htm --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/usofsmallbusiness/message

Our guest this week is Madison Ave ad man, John Follis. Interestingly enough, we start off with talk about religion – and God. Not really too removed from the main focus of his work – and our talk. In his words, he “has helped sell everything from Coke to God”. We cover G-Cred, how easy […]

Flobo chats with career advertising professional John Follis. The pair chat advertising history, some of John's wins as a pro, and current projects he's working on. Learn more about John here: https://medium.com/@JohnFollis KnewAmsterdam.com buymeacoffee.com/floboboyce --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/knewamsterdam/support

Join me today as I speak with Guest John Follis about how to be successful by believing in yourself in spite of what others say. Listen to John's story of becoming a top Ad Exec after being told he'd never be good at his dream!

John Follis is an award-winning advertising and marketing expert with 35 years of experience in the industry. He is a creative force, having worked on campaigns for major brands, started his own agency, and now works as a marketing therapist for small brands and entrepreneurs.As a Madison Ave ad man, John Follis, spent the first 7 years of his career getting fired and the next 25 getting famous. Despite his rough career start he eventually co-founded a Mad Ave agency that, in 3-years, became one of the most awarded agencies in the country. Relatedly, John was selected one of Madison Ave's "12 Best" by The NY Ad Club. John's high impact creative has helped sell everything from Coke to God and his high impact campaigns have been covered in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Forbes, TIME, The Harvard Business Review, and a Prentice-Hall marketing textbook.In this episode, you will learn the following:1. How to stay relevant and adapt to a changing business landscape2. The importance of staying connected with trends and market research3. The power of referrals and how to build a successful business modelhttps://en.everybodywiki.com/John_FollisWe're happy you're here! Like the pod? Follow us on all socials at @amplifywithanika and @yourbrandamplified Leave a review on Apple Podcasts Visit our website Connect with us at anika@yourbrandamplified.com

From Fired to Famous: An Advertising Maverick's Journey | John Follishttps://biolinkes.com/Walk In VictoryWelcome to Walk In Victory, the podcast where we share inspiring stories and practical strategies to help you overcome obstacles and achieve success in all areas of your life. I'm your host NaRon Tillman, coming to you from the vibrant city of New YorkOn this episode of Walk In Victory, NaRon Tillman interviews John Follis, a Madison Ave ad man who overcame a rocky start to his career and went on to co-found one of the most awarded agencies in the country. Follis shares his inspiring story of perseverance, discussing how he was fired four times in the first seven years of his career before eventually finding success. His high-impact creative campaigns have been covered in major publications, and he has been recognized for his public service work at both The White House and The UN. Follis also talks about his acclaimed narrative video series, "True Stories in Advertising," which documents his wild adventures in the ad biz.As an added bonus, John has generously offered his contact information for any listeners who want to learn more or seek guidance on their own advertising career. Tune in to hear John's story and get contact him for coaching opportunities.https://gmorris.com/connect/

John Follis joins Alex Burket on the Rise to the Challenge Podcast. John has been in the marketing game and has created his own Marketing Agency. We talk about the path through the highs and lows to get where he is today. We talk about the low points and setbacks that played a huge part in his path. We talk about being a speaker and the messages he shares when he speaks. We talk about creating his own company and so much more on the Rise to the Challenge Podcast.  Check out the links below to learn more about John Follis:   - Linkedin: John Follis - www.follisinc.com

If you're a regular listener to Truth Tastes Funny, you probably know that I started my career in NY on Madison Avenue. My guest John Follis is a Madison Ave adman. John's campaign for Sorrell Ridge Fruit Spreads - citing their jam's all-natural ingredients - knocked Smuckers for a loop (maybe it was the tagline. In 2003, in response to the shifting media landscape and to provide an alternative to the traditional ad agency model, he created "Follis Marketing Therapy". And, in 2006, John created "The Follis Marketing Report" blog and "The Marketing Show with John Follis" podcast syndicated on iTunes. John has always made time for public service and for one very successful public service campaign that he spearheaded, he was honored at The White House. A

If you're a regular listener to Truth Tastes Funny, you probably know that I started my career in NY on Madison Avenue after attending School of Visual Arts. Well, my guest John Follis is a Madison Ave adman who made waves before I ever dipped my toe in the ocean. John's campaign for Sorrell Ridge Fruit Spreads - citing their jam's all-natural ingredients - knocked Smuckers for a loop (maybe it was the tagline, "With 100% fruit, it has to be better."). The ad was so effective it became a case taught at the Harvard Business School and featured in Forbes. In ‘93, Follis/DeVito/Verdi was the second most awarded agency in New York. That same year John formed Follis Inc to include a focus on non-traditional and online marketing. In 2003, in response to the shifting media landscape and to provide an alternative to the traditional ad agency model, he created "Follis Marketing Therapy".  And, in 2006, John created "The Follis Marketing Report" blog and "The Marketing Show with John Follis" podcast syndicated on iTunes. John has always made time for public service and for one very successful public service campaign that he spearheaded, he was honored at The White House. As a result of John's career success he's been invited to write for ADWEEK and speak at venues including The World Business Academy and Yale University. Now for the funny part: John flunked out of his first college advertising class and was told by the instructor that he would never be successful in advertising.Find John:Wiki bio: https://en.everybodywiki.com/John_Follis”True Stories” series; https://bit.ly/3Kok4GJRecent article: https://bit.ly/3vr2ufthttps://follisinc.comIf you enjoyed listening to Truth Tastes Funny, please leave a 5-star rating and a 300-word review on Apple Podcasts (click Listen on Apple Podcasts to access review option)Check out Hersh's new podcast: YES, BRANDBoldly taking brands where they desperately wanna goFollow us on Instagram: @truthtastesfunnyFollow Hersh on Instagram: @Hersh4allon LinkedIn: HershRephunon YouTube: HershRephunon Twitter: @TruthTstsFunnyOur Website: TruthTastesFunnyContact UsExplore Branded Ventures with Truth Tastes Funny and Hersh's YES, BRAND Podcast

John Follis is a highly skilled and experienced marketing and business development professional with over 20 years of experience in the field. He has a strong background in strategy development, sales and marketing, and has worked with a variety of businesses across a range of industries. He is known for his ability to analyze market trends, identify new opportunities, and develop innovative solutions to complex problems. follisinc.com Unleash the Champ Leadership Podcast is Produced and Edited by @TheRobNoble. While podcasting is free to you as the listener, it isn't free to produce and promote. You can help Unleash the Champ Leadership Podcast for free by giving a 5 Star Review and sharing this episode to someone who would benefit from it. Means the world to us as we continue to grow our community here at Unleash the Champ Leadership Podcast.

How is the quality of your marketing? Do you think there's room for improvement? Tune in to my conversation with John Follis and learn: The biggest misconception about marketing How marketing is changing nowadays How to adapt to new developments in marketing How to use videos to market your business How public speaking can be useful for marketing John co-founded one of the most successful Madison Avenue ad agencies in the country, Follis/DeVito/Verdi. And, for his highly effective public service work, John was personally honored at The White House. In recent years, John's been helping small businesses around the US via his “Follis Marketing Therapy” consulting.  Connect with him at www.follisinc.com

A great chat with Nicole Bandes founder and CEO of Virtual A-Team   Welcome to our Take it Home Thursday show this week. We are glad you are back with us and look forward to hearing your thoughts on this chat.   We started the week off with our chat with John Follis, followed by US Army Veteran John Davis, and now we bring you Nicole Bandes for a chat about delegating more working less   While working with her one-on-one productivity coaching clients, Nicole realized that there was a need for better ways to delegate. She found most of her clients were not able or not willing to do all of the finding, hiring, training, and management that was necessary for an effective virtual team.   From this discovery, Virtual A Team was born in an effort to overcome the biggest challenges business owners face when working with virtual teams.   Nicole now averages less than 20 hours a week in her business and makes time for travel, family, and the really important things in life.   https://virtualateam.com/   This is a chat you will not want to miss. Enjoy episode 209 of The MisFitNation!   All of our latest episodes and videos can be found here:   https://www.themisfitnation.com   This episode   YouTube:  https://youtu.be/V8PE6ZsLJcI   #Author #Workless #Virtual     Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Founder / Creative Director at Follis Inc John Follis: "I began on Madison Ave with the top agencies in the US on accounts like VW, Pizza Hut and Coke. That led to the co-founding of my own agency, Follis&Verdi, which became one of the most awarded creative agencies in the country. As the media and marketing landscape changed, so did my business. In '04, I created one of the first online consultancies, "Follis Marketing Therapy", which enabled business owners across the US to work with me directly on their marketing and creative issues. In '06, I hosted and produced the first marketing podcast; "The Marketing Show with John Follis" which continued for 7 years. In 2013, to meet the demand for the exploding digital video market, we added "Big Idea Video" which offers businesses a variety of high-impact web video content including animated "explainer videos". Currently, that work is featured on Vimeo, LinkedIn, and 4 YouTube Channels. Additional career highlights include: • Being selected one of "New York's 12 Best" by The New York Ad Club. • Being honored at The White House for a national public service campaign that I spearheaded. • Receiving the first ever United Nations Public Service Award at The UN. • Being invited to speak at venues including The World Business Academy and Yale University. • Winning over 3 dozen major ad awards including Clio Awards. • Having my successful ad work featured in a Prentice-Hall marketing textbook. • Having my successful ad work taught as a case study in The Harvard Business Review. • Being invited to write for ADWEEK and Small Biz Trends. • Being published in a pop-culture anthology with internationally known writers including Stephen King. • Writing, directing and producing a film that won a Hollywood International Documentary Film award. • Being listed on Wikipedia: https://en.everybodywiki.com/John_Follis" HOST'S DETAILS: ___________________________________________ ►Debra Chantry-Taylor is a Professional EOS Implementer | Entrepreneurial Leadership & Business Coach | Business Owner ►See how she can help you: https://businessaction.co.nz/ ____________________________________________ GUESTS DETAILS: ____________________________________________ ►Website:https://www.follisinc.com/ __________________________________________ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/betterbusiness-betterlife/message

Madison Ave Ad man, Agency Owner, and Speaker, John Follis joins us for a great chat.   Welcome to our Top it off Tuesday show this week. We are glad you are back with us and look forward to hearing your thoughts on this episode   As a Madison Ave ad man, John Follis spent the first 7 years of his career getting fired, and the next 25 getting famous. Despite his rough career start he eventually co-founded a Mad Ave agency that, in 3-years, became one of the most awarded agencies in the country. Relatedly, John was selected as one of Madison Ave's "12 Best" by The NY Ad Club.   This is a chat you will not want to miss. Enjoy episode 207 of The MisFitNation! Check out John here: https://en.everybodywiki.com/John_Follis   All of our latest episodes and videos can be found here:   https://www.themisfitnation.com   This episode YouTube: https://youtu.be/cqVg7Kmqq3A #Marketing #Advertising #resilience Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

John Follis, spent the first 7 years of his career getting fired, and the next 25 getting famous. Despite his rough career start he eventually co-founded a Mad Avenue agency that, in 3-years, became one of the most awarded agencies in the country. John was also selected one of Madison Ave's "12 Best" by The New York Ad Club. John's high impact creative has helped sell everything from Coke to God and his high impact campaigns have been covered in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Forbes, TIME, The Harvard Business Review, and a Prentice-Hall marketing textbook.

Carrying On The Conversation about getting attention  that Wendy had with John Follis So what's your platform? What's your content poison? 10 seconds? 20 seconds?... We hope you managed to catch the most recent episode of "Making Conversations Count" in which Wendy spoke with John Follis all about getting attention for your brand! In this bonus episode, Wendy and Neal discuss takeaways from the recent episode.  If you haven't yet heard it, drop everything, and click the episode link above to listen to it, before you listen to this bonus one! "Making Conversations Count" is an award-nominated podcast from WAG Associates' telemarketing trainer and telemarketing expert Wendy Harris. Missed our previous episodes? You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here: https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/   On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here: https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen   Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!  https://makingconversationscount.studio/Review-all-episodes You are following the show on socials, right? Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!  Here are the links just in case you need them: Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram

Is your stuff getting attention that it deserves? "What it does is it forces businesses to realize that people's attention span is very short. They probably are not going to listen or watch to a 30 minutes podcast, but they will listen to and watch a 30 second video." John Follis, Making Conversations Count - October 2022  Psst! Click if you want to read a transcript version of the episode Is your stuff getting the attention that you know it deserves? When you post a video, does it get views? When you publish a podcast episode, do people listen to it? When you type out your thoughts, do people read them? This is the subject of this week's conversation. We're privileged to have a real, honest-to-biscuits, bona-fide member of the "Mad Men". John Follis joins our Wendywoo to chat through podcasting, explainer videos, Tik Tok and Instagram. And not just the online social stuff. The real life social stuff too!...   You'll learn... John's experience with leveraging his podcast as a discovery tool before social was a thing (01m30s) Success is about timing (08m30s) Whatever platform or medium you use, you've got to get the messaging right (14m29s) The algorithms are constantly changing (20m11s) John's conversation that counted (23m30s)   What IS Making Conversations Count?   "Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.   Missed our previous episodes?   You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:   https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/   Listen to Making Conversations Count   On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:   https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen

Is your stuff getting attention that it deserves? "What it does is it forces businesses to realize that people's attention span is very short. They probably are not going to listen or watch to a 30 minutes podcast, but they will listen to and watch a 30 second video." John Follis, Making Conversations Count - October 2022  Psst! Click if you want to read a transcript of the episode! Is your stuff getting the attention that you know it deserves? When you post a video, does it get views? When you publish a podcast episode, do people listen to it? When you type out your thoughts in a blog, do people read them? This is the subject of this week's conversation. We're privileged to have a real, honest-to-biscuits, bona-fide member of the "Mad Men". John Follis joins our Wendywoo to chat through podcasting, explainer videos, Tik Tok and Instagram. And not just the online social stuff. The real life social stuff too!...   You'll learn... John's experience with leveraging his podcast as a discovery tool before social was a thing (01m30s) Success is about timing (08m30s) Whatever platform or medium you use, you've got to get the messaging right (14m29s) The algorithms are constantly changing (20m11s) John's conversation that counted (23m30s)   What IS Making Conversations Count?   "Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from WAG Associates founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris.   Missed our previous episodes?   You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here:   https://makingconversationscount.com/episodes/   Listen to Making Conversations Count   On your mobile device? Hear the conversations in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here:   https://makingconversationscount.studio/listen

Watch this Interview Live Have you ever questioned your faith or even the existence of God? Our special guest John Follis explores this cultural shift through the prism of his own personal journey in this episode of Why are Millions of Americans Leaving God and Religion? Who is John Follis? John Follis spent his career on Madison Ave working for the top agencies in the country including his own. Besides being an award-winning copywriter he's written for multiple national publications and blogs. His humorous essay “Mad Ave”, published alongside essays from Stephen King and Dave Barry, appears in “Mirror on America” (St Martin's Press). Follis has been an adjunct professor of advertising and marketing at the Parsons School of Design, the School of Visual Arts, and the Fashion Institute of Technology in New York City. What do you think about Americans leaving the faith? Let us know in the comments

Episode 103 is all about the thing we all crave - attention! John Follis will be chatting with us all about getting the brand messaging out there, to the right people, in the right place and in the right duration! Bit like my four R formula... Catch the brand new episode on Thursday. Make sure you're following the podcast in your favourite player (we recommend Apple Podcasts ) so you never miss an episode. "Making Conversations Count" is a podcast from Making Conversations Count founder and telemarketing trainer Wendy Harris. Missed our previous episodes? You can catch up with any of the other guests we've been making conversations count with, here. On your mobile device? Hear them in your favourite platform (Apple or Spotify etc) here. Once you've listened, remember to leave us a review!  NEVER MISS AN EPISODE AGAIN!! Follow the show on Apple Podcasts here! Follow the show on Spotify, here! You are following the show on socials, right? Only there will you see sneaky peaky teasers of the upcoming episodes, as well as updates and news on the show!  Here are the links just in case you need them: Twitter Facebook Pinterest YouTube Instagram

John Follis learned about marketing, branding, and great creative by working on Madison Avenue for the top agencies in the world. That training led to the co - founding of his own agency which went on to become one of the most successful and award-winning agencies in the US.  This episode you will hear about how John was fired 4 times in 8 years and he used this as a sign to start working for himself by setting up his agency back in the late 80s, how John overcame issues with his business partner, how to leverage social media's like Tik Tok to your advantage and marketing therapy is  https://www.follisinc.com/therapy.htm (https://www.follisinc.com/therapy.htm) New Episodes every Monday! www.stringcastmedia.com

#076 - Join me for the "make yourself proud" episode where I chat with ex-ad man, writer, designer, digital content creator, teacher, consultant and documentary filmmaker, John Follis. We discuss:why multi-passionates don't do corporate politics,  using LinkedIn as the place to execute your marketing strategy,why you should hire people who play at what you have to work athow our definitions of success change over time, and might be a combination of boxes to check, andJohn's fascinating documentary journey.Leaving God won a Hollywood documentary film award and is a highly entertaining watch!Go check John out at FollisInc.com.Follow me, Jennie, on Instagram and LinkedIn.✨✨If you think this content is deserving of a tip, I'd be ever so grateful if you'd leave one here. I plan to use all proceeds for magick supplies and I promise to use my powers for good.

Top 3 Takeaways From This Value-Packed Conversation: Sticking to your goals is all about determination. If you can accept the fact that curveballs will come your way and no path to success is linear, the more determined you'll be to overcome any obstacle that stands in the way of reaching your goals and aspirations Before spending a ton of money on what you feel is an advantageous move for your brand, look at the big picture objectively and spend wisely and strategically. It may require a second and even third opinion, but it's better to connect with experts who can point you in the right direction before spending your money blindly and getting little to no ROI Powerful marketing is not just about engaging people, but exciting them so they respond   Click here for complete show notes  Episode 105 of Evolution of Brand is sponsored by Canva. Canva makes it easy to create remarkable, on-brand logos, graphics, and videos for any business owner at any skill level. Click here to get started with Canva Want to attract new clients, enhance your network, and establish authority in your space? Click here to take your personal brand to the next level MUSIC CREDIT: "Victory" courtesy of purple-planet.com

Top 3 Takeaways From This Value-Packed Conversation:Sticking to your goals is all about determination. If you can accept the fact that curveballs will come your way and no path to success is linear, the more determined you'll be to overcome any obstacle that stands in the way of reaching your goals and aspirationsBefore spending a ton of money on what you feel is an advantageous move for your brand, look at the big picture objectively and spend wisely and strategically. It may require a second and even third opinion, but it's better to connect with experts who can point you in the right direction before spending your money blindly and getting little to no ROIPowerful marketing is not just about engaging people, but exciting them so they respond  Click here for complete show notes Episode 105 of Evolution of Brand is sponsored by Canva. Canva makes it easy to create remarkable, on-brand logos, graphics, and videos for any business owner at any skill level. Click here to get started with CanvaWant to attract new clients, enhance your network, and establish authority in your space? Click here to take your personal brand to the next levelMUSIC CREDIT: "Victory" courtesy of purple-planet.com

Jarrod discussses the lessons learned by award wininng advertisier John Follis while smoking a whole chicken. https://www.jarrodmorgan.com/podcast

This week's theme: Advertising Advertising is one of the most efficient strategies to attract consumers and capture the attention of your target audience. Advertising success is […] The post Advertising with John Follis appeared first on Heather Hansen Oneill.

From Fear to Fire: Secrets to Overcome Fear, Embrace your Gifts and Achieve Success This is the place where real people share real challenges. Where you can find a common bond and uncommon wisdom through their stories. Use tips from … Read More The post Advertising with John Follis appeared first on HeatherHansenONeill.

Advertising has its own story and who better than John Follis, a Madison Avenue Adman to tell the story about his experiences working in the fast paced world of New York City. I talked with John about how he got into advertising, his award winning career helping some big name brands tell their brand stories to the marketplace, and how digital has changed the way we advertise. Today, John helps businesses create engaging explainer videos to tell their stories in this digital age. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/brand-storytelling/message

“You have to realise that you succeed in direct proportion to the amount that you help others succeed. So, it's not all about you and your success and how much money you're making. At the end of the day. It's going to be about how much you can help the guy who's sitting across the desk deciding whether he should give you a job.”  John's Top Five Tips for Being the Best in Your Profession 1.       It starts with a decision to WANT to be the best.2.       Then you must put yourself in a position to learn from the best. (the best schools, cities, work environment, etc)3.       Determination and persistence is key.4.       Relatedly, you must be able to rebound, as quick as possible, from setbacks.5.       Lastly, you cannot let your ambition cloud your methods. Lying, cheating, and deceivingto "be the best" will ultimately tarnish your reputation despite whatever you might achieve. TIME STAMP SUMMARY00:51 Surrounding yourself with the best05:27 Do not get discouraged09:45 Helping others11:04 The definition of success differs  Where to find JohnWebsite                               http://www.follisinc.com/ LinkedIn                               https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnfollis  Who is John Follis? John Follis is a creative Madison Ave adman who worked for the top NY agencies on accounts including Coke, VW, and Pizza Hut. He then co-founded his own agency, Follis & Verdi, which became one of the most awarded in the US. His successful campaigns were covered in USA Today, Forbes, NYT, the Harvard Business Review and a marketing textbook. John then focused on helping small business owners across the US via one of the first online marketing consulting models (via Skype) which he started in 2004. As a result of his career success, he's been invited to write for ADWEEK and speak at venues including The World Business Academy and Yale University. And, for a successful public service campaign that he spearheaded, he was honored at The White House.  

Follis began his career working for major advertising agencies such as FCB/Chicago and DDB Worldwide in New York. In the mid-1980s, his entrepreneurial career began with freelance work for such major New York shops as Chiat/Day, Della Femina and Kirshenbaum & Bond. His work on the Kenneth Cole account resulted in awards and national press.In 1988, Follis co-founded Follis&Verdi, with clients such as The American Stock Exchange, No Excuses Jeans, Solgar Vitamins and Sorrell Ridge Fruit Spreads—a case taught at the Harvard Business School and featured in Forbes. In ‘93, Follis/DeVito/Verdi won 9 ADDY Awards making it the second most awarded agency in New York. That same year Follis formed Follis Inc to include a focus on non-traditional and online marketing. In 2003, in response to the shifting media landscape and to provide an alternative to the traditional ad agency model, Follis created "Follis Marketing Therapy". And, in 2006, Follis created "The Follis Marketing Report" blog and "The Marketing Show with John Follis" podcast syndicated on iTunes. How did you get started in advertising and marketing all those years ago?Well, first of all, thank you for having me on your show. Yeah, I'm looking forward to this. So yeah, I started a while ago and I was always good creatively growing up as a kid. The question was how to question was how do I apply that creative talent to a career? And I was probably halfway through college when I got pulled aside by an instructor who was teaching a graphic design class and she asked me what I wanted to do with my life. And when I said I wasn't sure if she said, Well, I think you are to really seriously consider pursuing something either in advertising or communication arts or some kind of media because you're really really talented. So had it not been for that instructor? I'm not sure I would have pursued that. But you know, that helped a lot. And after she gave me that idea, I transferred to a university Syracuse University that had one of the best advertising programs in the country. So that's how I started on that track.Where are you in Chicago first or New York first.John's response:So I grew up in Connecticut, and I was I was going to school in upstate New York and Syracuse and then after graduation, I didn't feel I was ready for New York City, even though that is the mecca of advertising as some of your listeners may know. They call it Madison Avenue. But I was I was a little intimidated by New York so did not go there. Like many of my classmates did it and started out my career in Atlanta, Georgia, two years in Atlanta. Then I got felt that wasn't fast enough for me. So I moved up to Chicago, spent three years there and after that, I felt like I was ready for the for the big leagues and moved to New Yorkhttps://www.follisinc.com/therapy.htmhttps://www.youtube.com/c/JohnFollisBIV

In this episode, I talk to John Follis on:✨  How he started his entrepreneurial journey✨  How did he overcome naysayers and find his passion✨ His advice for business owners when it comes to marketing✨ How to identify the right marketing person for your businessDon't forget to subscribe to my podcast and leave a review if you liked this episode! ✨Author Newsletter: https://www.themarketingnomad.co/books/zerotofourfiguresA bit about me:My name: Prithvi MadhukarPseudonym: The Marketing NomadI'm a marketer, business owner, entrepreneur, author of Zero to Four Figures: Lessons Learned by a Broke CEO, podcaster, youtuber, Etsy Shop Owner, Skillshare Teacher, and influencer with a zest for life, passion for marketing and an aim to travel the world while building my business empire ❤️Say Hi! to me:Instagram -  https://www.instagram.com/themarketingnomadLinkedin -  https://www.linkedin.com/in/prithvimadhukar/Skillshare -  https://www.skillshare.com/r/user/themarketingnomad?gr_tch_ref=on&gr_trp=onPodcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-marketing-nomad-show/id1531854014YouTube -  https://www.youtube.com/channel/themarketingnomadMy Etsy Shop:  https://www.etsy.com/shop/TheMarketingNomadCoConsulting Services I offer:Social Media Marketing | Website Marketing | Content Marketing | Email Marketing: https://www.themarketingnomad.co/packages☕ Buy me a coffee if you'd like! ☕https://www.buymeacoffee.com/marketingnomadDISCLAIMER: You are absolutely not required, ever! However, if you liked this episode and you want to say thank you, then this is just me keeping that option open :) I am grateful for anything but please never feel like you have to! :)About our guest:John Follis is one of the most awarded and honored advertising professionals in the US. His career started in New York working for the top ad agencies in the country. Then, he cofounded his own, Follis & Verdi, which became one of the most award-winning agencies in the US. He was one of the first to offer marketing consulting online, via Skype, in '04. He was also one of the first to host a marketing podcast which he did in 2006. And, in 2013, he started BIG IDEA VIDEO to help businesses with digital video. John's been invited to write for ADWEEK and speak at venues including The World Business Academy and The Yale Entrepreneurial Institute.He has also taught at the the top advertising schools in New York. Hiswiki profile provides his full career details: https://en.everybodywiki.com/John_FollisLinks for John Follis:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/BigideavideoBizSupport the show

Check out the full interview on my YouTube channel- https://youtube.com/c/TheLyonShow John Follis learned about marketing, branding, and great creative by working on Madison Avenue for the top agencies in the world. That training led to the cofounding of his own Madison Avenue agency which went on to become one of the most successful and award-winning agencies in the US. In 2004, John created "Follis Marketing Therapy”... one of the first online consulting business models to help entrepreneurs around the country with their marketing. And, in 2013, he started BIG IDEA VIDEO specializing in "explainer videos" and other creative video marketing content. Besides being interviewed on dozens of podcasts, John's been invited to speak at The World Business Academy and the Yale Entrepreneurial institute. Wiki: https://en.everybodywiki.com/John_Follis Follis Marketing Therapy: https://bit.ly/3Q9afzN BIG IDEA VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/user/BigIdeaVideoChannel Follis Inc: https://www.follisinc.com   Grow Your Business Your 45- Minute Free Strategy Session is the next step  to realizing your dream for your business, and your life Robert Lyon ● The Growth Consultant https://thegrowthconsultant.com/strategy-session/   Donate & Support The Show - https://robertrlyon.thrivecart.com/donate-to-support-the-show/ Check Out What I'm Working On – https://robertrlyon.com Purchase wood sculptures I create – https://thewoodcarvers.com My Etsy Store - https://www.etsy.com/shop/TheLyonArtShop?ref=seller-platform-mcnav Listen To My Podcast – https://lyonshow.com Check out my music – https://romulusrecords.com Subscribe to my youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/c/thelyonshow?sub_confirmation=1   Tools To Help You Build Your Business Use Active Campaign For Your Emails - https://ActiveCampaign.referralrock.com/l/1L4R91U0ZHT/ Hosting With Siteground https://www.siteground.com/index.htm?afcode=7a3d07a6bbb634eb5b794a26f9c76c48 Webdesign With Thrive Themes - https://thrivethemes.com/affiliates/ref.php?id=9665 CART & Courses and more Thrive Cart- https://evergreentactics--checkout.thrivecart.com/thrivecart-standard-account/   Start getting interviewed on podcast - https://podmatch.com/?ref=1659645020681x446432258160411000

I began on Madison Ave with the top agencies in the US on accounts like VW, Pizza Hut and Coke. That led to the co-founding of my own agency, Follis&Verdi, which became one of the most awarded creative agencies in the country.  As the media/marketing landscape changed, so did my business. In '04, I created one of the first online marketing consultancies, "Follis Marketing Therapy", which enabled to me to connect with and help small and medium size business owners across the US. Then, in 2013, I added "Big Idea Video" dedicated to providing those businesses with high-impact web video content.Connect with John:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnfollis/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/BigideavideoBiz+++++Subscribe to the Podcast!▶︎ PODCAST  |  https://bit.ly/3bU6D3l Please Follow & Connect with me! Link's Below▶︎ WEBSITE  |  https://tyzerevans.com▶︎ YOUTUBE  |  https://youtube.com/c/tyzerevans▶︎ INSTAGRAM  |  https://instagram.com/tyzerevans▶︎ FACEBOOK  |  https://facebook.com/grindsellelevate▶︎ LINKEDIN  |  https://linkedin.com/in/tyzerevans▶︎ TWITTER  |  https://twitter.com/tyzerevans▶︎ TIKTOK  |  https://tiktok.com/tyzerevans▶︎ PATREON  |  https://patreon.com/tyzerevansCheck out my Clothing Brand: https://odinsrune.com, clothing for those who want to burn the boats to live a purpose-driven lifeAre you a YouTuber? Then you need to have TubeBuddy to help with optimizing your search results, it is free, all you need to do it hit the link below, add to your chrome extension and you will start improving your search results on YouTube: https://www.tubebuddy.com/grindsellelevateCheck out Tyzer's other podcast "The Book Legion" at https://thebooklegion.com

As a Madison Ave ad man, John Follis, spent the first 7 years of his career getting fired and the next 25 getting famous. Despite his rough career start he eventually co-founded a Mad Ave agency that, in 3-years, became one of the most awarded agencies in the country. Relatedly, John was selected one of Madison Ave's "12 Best" by The NY Ad Club. John's high impact creative has helped sell everything from Coke to God and his high impact campaigns have been covered in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Forbes, TIME, The Harvard Business Review, and a Prentice-Hall marketing textbook. What makes his success particularly noteworthy is what he's had to overcome to achieve it. He was fired 4 times in the first 7 years of his career. His acclaimed narrative video series; “True Stories in Advertising” documents his wild ad biz adventures. For more information, visit en.everybodywiki.com/John_Follis.

Sometimes it just helps to sit down, let your worries pour out from inside of you, and have someone there to listen. It helps even more when that person is a trained and experience expert who can help guide you toward an answer. That, in a nutshell, describes today's guest. John Follis co-founded a Madison Ave ad agency that became one of the most awarded in the country. 10 years later he created an online consulting model called "Marketing Therapy"to help smaller businesses around the US. As a thought leader he's been invited to write for ADWEEK and speak at The World Business Academy and Yale Entrepreneurial Institute. And, for his public service work, he was honored at The White House. You can find John Follis at follisinc.com or Google "John Follis"

Story of failure: The thought failure of driving by a roofing sign and Kendra not noticing.As a Madison Ave ad man, John Follis, spent the first 7 years of his career getting fired and the next 25 getting famous. Despite his rough career start he ultimately co-founded one of New York's most awarded agencies and was selected one of Madison Ave's "12 Best" by The NY Ad Club.John's high impact creative has helped sell everything from Coke to God and his high impact campaigns have been covered in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Forbes, TIME, The Harvard Business Review, and a Prentice-Hall marketing textbook.As a requested speaker John has addressed The World Business Academy and The Yale Entrepreneur Institute among others. He's also had the remarkable experience of being honored at both The White House for his exceptional public service work.But, in the first seven years of his career John was fired 4 times and told he'd never succeed in the business. How he overcame those harsh rejections to achieve his exceptional success is revealed in John's acclaimed video series “True Stories in Advertising.”In today's episode, John talks about:- spending his career in advertising in New York, Atlanta, and Chicago- a 25-year career on Madison Ave. in New York- why he kept getting fired early in his advertising career- why he loves creating things and how he got into video- early days of iMac movies and still images- creating fun animations and telling the stories of his career- almost got a book published in the mid-90's after signing a book deal with a top New York publisher- 22 rejections when pitching his book- stories that were collecting dust and wanting to do something with them- the start of true stories in advertising- why he doesn't have to focus on making money and can simply create- story of the most bizarre evening in advertising history- the Cleo Awards in the advertising business- $250 ticket in the early 1990's- packed in like sardines with no air conditioning at the awards show- why the head caterer acted as the master of ceremonies and why bread rolls we thrown- the band playing Danny Boy while bread rolls fly- the eventual theft of the golden statues from the stage- the mad dash for the Cleo Awards- having no idea if he had won an award and why he got a certificate a year later- why one of the most frustrating thing in his career was not being able to find a mentor- being hired at a top agency and being excited about a possible mentor that didn't pan out- why his dad was a supportive figure and mentor for him in life- attending Syracuse University and learning a lot in the world of advertising- Steve Jobs talking about connecting the dots- if he had not been fired, he would have not started freelancing which led to a lot of success in his career- a big part of his success was due to a great business partner- what a good partnership looks like- being able to focus on becoming a good copywriter and the production of ads- story of the first advertising course he took at Syracuse- why his instructor told him that he sucked and didn't understand advertising- why you can't dismiss a teacher telling you you're not going to make it- advertising 101- why discouragement didn't feel like an experience he could learn from at the time- taking the course again with a different instructor and brushing off the failure of the first- sometimes you just don't get along with people- looking at things analytically and processing a way forward- trying to look at other paths forward to reach your goal- in order to get fired, you have to first get hired- why he never stopped trying to improve his portfolio- developing and creating as a creative- speculative ads and the role they play in a portfolio- at the point in his life to do whatever he wants- playing the guitar and playing in a band in front of people- certain songs that people know and like that you don't have to play well- knowing what his vocal range is and playing stairway to heaven- the key is picking the right audience- you can't sing classic rock songs to kids in the 20's and 30's because it won't connect- why he wants to spend the next five years productively- why sharing experiences makes him feel good and why he wants to inspire people------------John's VimeoJohn's YouTube------------

At 33, John co-founded a Madison Ave ad agency that, in 4 years, became one of the most successful and awarded in the country. He was selected one of Madison Ave's "12 Best" and his agency's campaigns have been covered in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Forbes, The Harvard Business Review, and a Prentice-Hall marketing textbook. As a thought leader, he's written for ADWEEK, Ad Age, and Small Biz Trends and addressed The World Business Academy and Yale Entrepreneur Institute, among others. For his breakthrough public service work he was honored at The White House and The UN. But, in the first seven years of his career John was fired 4 times and told he'd never succeed in the business. How he overcame those repeated rejections to achieve success is revealed in his video series, “True Stories in Advertising.” (on Youtube and Vimeo)

In 2013 adman John Follis created "Big Idea Video" to address the need for businesses needing more compelling online video content, a trend which is so much the norm today. We talk to John Follis, Award-winning Creative Director, Writer, Filmmaker on how he thought of this big idea then, on good advertising and bad advertising and on his journey as a Madison Ave ad man who spent the first 7 years of his career getting fired, and the next 25 getting famous. Watch video here: https://youtu.be/2aWMW8MtUEQ Listen on top podcast platforms here: https://pod.link/thekajstudio For instant updates on Lives and episodes follow/subscribe me here on this platform, on YouTube https://bit.ly/3jm0q2N or on my LinkedIn Page The KAJ Masterclass LIVE and do tell a few friends if you can. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/kaj-studio/message

As a Madison Ave ad man, John Follis, spent the first 7 years of his career getting fired, and the next 25 getting famous. Despite his rough career start he eventually co-founded a Mad Ave agency that, in 3-years, became one of the most awarded agencies in the country. Relatedly, John was selected one of Madison Ave's "12 Best" by The NY Ad Club. John's high impact creative has helped sell everything from Coke to God and his high impact campaigns have been covered in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Forbes, TIME, The Harvard Business Review, and a Prentice-Hall marketing textbook. As a requested speaker John's addressed The World Business Academy and The Yale Entrepreneur Institute among others. He's also the only entrepreneur to be honored at The White House and The UN for his public service work. What makes his success particularly noteworthy is what he's had to overcome to achieve it. He was fired 4 times in the first 7 years of his career. His acclaimed narrative video series; “True Stories in Advertising” documents his wild ad biz adventures. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/justinaguirre/support

Where is the overlap between faith, marketing and creativity?Guest: John Follis, Leaving God documentary and True Stories in Advertising------------------------Promo: Diary of a Space ArchivistDisclaimer: Monsters of the MidwestArt: Laura UrquhartMusic: Jake Pierle -- https://jakepierle.bandcamp.com/------------------------Facebook group: The Asylum -- https://bit.ly/iwbasylumDiscord server: Ignorance Was Bliss Satellite Campus -- https://bit.ly/iwbdiscordMerch: https://bit.ly/iwbpodcastmerchPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/IWBpodcastTikTok (@iwbpodcast): Podcast ChecklistSponsor: Bath By Bex (code CBDkate for 15% off)Sponsor: InsPrana Yoga (code IWB25OFF for 25% off your first session)

 MPF Discussion with John FollisTrue Stories of Madison Avenue with John Follis  |  | John Follis creative ad work led to the founding of follis/DeVito/Verdi, one of New York's most awarded agencies. His successful campaigns have been featured in national press, textbooks, and a Harvard Business case study. | | As an industry thought leader John's been on CNBC and ABC and written for ADWEEK and Ad Age. As a requested speaker he's addressed The World Business Academy, New York Business Expo and Yale University. Additionally, he's taught at SVA, FIT and Parsons School of Design. To help businesses with their video, John formed Big Idea Video in 2013. John's also made time for dozens of worthy causes for which he's received honors at The White House and The UN. On this episode of My Perfect Failure (True Stories of Madison Avenue) If you want to know how to recover from being fired 4 times in 7 years and what it was like to work in the advertising mecca of Madison Avenue then this is a must listen for you. John breaks all this down whilst also illuminating our discussion as he describes some of his short films from his hugely enjoyable True stories in advertising short film project. Some of the areas we cover. ·         Recovering from being fired 4 times in 7 years·         John discusses his True Stories in Advertising short Films project·         The importance of having a Plan A·         Sorrel Ridge Jam – How John's Agency innovative campaign proved a huge hit.   John Follis - True Stories in Advertising short Films·         https://vimeo.com/showcase/3414367  John Follis Wikipedia·         https://en.everybodywiki.com/John_Follis John Follis – Getting Fired 4 times ·         https://vimeo.com/561490004  Contact John Follis·         john@follisinc.com ·         Work with me: paul@myperfectfailure.com·         MPF Website: http://www.myperfectfailure.com/ ·         Insta: follow: https://www.instagram.com/padsmpf/ ·         Twitter: https://twitter.com/failure_perfect ·         Facebook MPF Private Group:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/377418129517757/   

John Follis is the director of the documentary film Leaving God, but he is probably not as well known as his most famous creation – the legendary Marble Collegiate Church ad campaign. If you were ever on a subway in New York City in the first decade of the 2000s, there is almost no chance you are not familiar with his work. But he created that campaign while in the midst of his own tumultuous spiritual journey, one that would ultimately lead him away from religion and God entirely and toward a new project – looking at the rise of the so-called Nones (those who identify as having no religious affiliation) and the hidden struggle of those, like him, who have awoken to atheism, including former pastors and ministers. Leaving God addresses all of the above, and here Follis speaks to John about his life in and out of religion, that legendary ad campaign, and what compelled him to make a documentary. You can watch John's film here: https://vimeo.com/208442766

John Follis is the director of the documentary film Leaving God, but he is probably not as well known as his most famous creation – the legendary Marble Collegiate Church ad campaign. If you were ever on a subway in New York City in the first decade of the 2000s, there is almost no chance you are not familiar with his work. But he created that campaign while in the midst of his own tumultuous spiritual journey, one that would ultimately lead him away from religion and God entirely and toward a new project – looking at the rise of the so-called Nones (those who identify as having no religious affiliation) and the hidden struggle of those, like him, who have awoken to atheism, including former pastors and ministers. Leaving God addresses all of the above, and here Follis speaks to John about his life in and out of religion, that legendary ad campaign, and what compelled him to make a documentary. You can watch John's film here: https://vimeo.com/208442766

As a Madison Ave ad man, John Follis, spent the first 7 years of his career getting fired, and the next 25 getting famous. After multiple terminations he co-founded a Madison Ave agency that, in four years, became one of the most well-known and award-winning in the country. On a personal level, he was selected by The New York Ad Club as one the "12 Best” on Madison Ave. John's high impact creative has helped sell everything from Coke to God and his successful campaigns have been covered in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today, Forbes, TIME, The Harvard Business Review, and a Prentice-Hall marketing textbook. As a requested speaker John has addressed The World Business Academy and The Yale Entrepreneur Institute among others. He's also had the remarkable experience of being honoured at The White House for his exceptional public service work. But, in the first seven years of his career John was fired 4 times and told he'd never succeed in the business. How he overcame those rejections and other obstacles to achieve success is revealed in John's acclaimed video series “True Stories in Advertising.” How did it all start? Being led into advertising by a careers advisor Being told you'll never make it in advertising Early career Being fired from 4 roles Starting your own award winning agency How marketing has changed since the 1980s and how has it stayed the same The product of you and how to market yourself Google v Social Media What was the most important lesson learned? Where To Find John: https://www.facebook.com/TrueAdStories https://www.instagram.com/johnfollis https://twitter.com/JohnFollis https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnfollis https://www.youtube.com/user/BigIdeaVideoChannel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCocq_HdoCPO8olVmCf-QSuw https://vimeo.com/showcase/3414367

INTRODUCTION: About John Follis / "LEAVING GOD” John Follis is the award-winning writer/director of the documentary "LEAVING GOD” (2017).  Winner of a Hollywood International Documentary Film award the film explores a major cultural shift happening in America -- a shift away from religion and God. Paralleling this trend it also shares John's fascinating personal story. Described as “Compelling” by the BBC, "LEAVING GOD” has been seen by over 36,000 people from 98 countries via Vimeo, YouTube, and TopDocumentaryFilms.com.     Before becoming a filmmaker John was an award-winning Madison Ave ad man who actually helped sell God. His 16-year ad campaign for New York's Marble Church received national attention via The New York Times, USAToday and TIME magazine. That story is included in the film.    INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to): ·      A Documentary About People Leaving God·      Preachers Coming Out!!!·      Separation Of Church and State·      Radical Republicans·      The Ways Churches Hurt People·      Why Religious Persecution of People Is Wrong·      The Differences Between God And The Church·      Tribalism Defined·      The Importance Of Obtaining Discernment·      Catholic Shade  CONNECT WITH JOHN: Website & Film: https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/leaving-god/YouTube: https://bit.ly/3IvRjH0Facebook:   https://bit.ly/357oAuAInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/johnfollis/Twitter: https://twitter.com/JohnFollisLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnfollis/  CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook:   https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonEmail: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com  DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: ·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o  https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o  TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs ·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: ·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon  TRANSCRIPT: [00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: Hello? Hello. Hello. Are you beautiful people out there in the world? I am so fucking happy and excited to have you with me again. One more week today, I'm talking with a man by the name of John Follas. His man is an award winning creative director, writer, and filmmaker. Now he didn't made a documentary called leaving God.And in this film, he's talking about the ways church has hurt people in this mass Exodus of people away from Christianity and religion. [00:01:00] It's not very often. Did I hear people's story about the ways that, that they were hurt by the church? Like how I was? So this was a particularly close to home.So in this show, we're going to talk about preaches coming out and we're not talking about coming out gay honey. They coming out another way and talking about why religious persecution of people is wrong and the differences between God and the church. Take a listen, baby. Hello, John. Hey, Davanon Mr. John. Fallas welcome to the sex drugs in Jesus podcast. How are you today? I am John: awesome. Awesome. Thanks for having me on your show. De'Vannon: Thank you for stopping by and thank you for creating the film you have. Today we're gonna be talking a lot about it and the things that are in it.The title of it is leaving God. And it's a free video's out there for all to see through your YouTube channel and [00:02:00] different things like that. I'll let you tell people exactly how to find it and everything. I was impressed with how, how personal you got in the documentary because usually whenever I watch a documentary.The, the emphasis it's like the lenses turn on whatever the subject matter is, or, or whoever the, the documentary is about. But you you, I think you tow the line well in between covering the subject matter and, and talking a lot about yourself and a lot about your personal life. And that transparency is something that I, I find to be like gold.I really, really love a good transparent person. And and so I appreciate that, that willingness to, to expose yourself like that, because, you know, that's what really connects people to the story. Right. Exactly. So tell us in your own words then about this film and why on earth would you make such a.[00:03:00]John: Well, I made it because it talks about one of the most major cultural shifts currently happening in America right now, which is more and more people leaving the church, leaving religion and leaving God. So that's why I made it. I thought that's a very, I I'm, I pay attention to pop culture. I, I, I paying a attention to what's half happening in society and because my personal story was part of that cultural shift that's happening in America.It definitely related to me on a personal level, as you just mentioned in the introduction. So I mean, this is something that I had been, I, I, you know, like you, I'm interested in the big themes of life, sex money not so much drugs. Jesus, God health. You know, all those, the big themes in life are the ones I wanted to know as much [00:04:00] as possible about because the more you know about these big themes, I think the more, the better happier life you will have, you know, the more things you can figure out.Right? So I've always been intrigued by the of God. And once I was old enough to begin thinking for myself, when I'd say probably high school and college, I started pursuing my curiosity about God and trying to learn as much about who God is and how I can, you know, if he, or she, or whatever it is, is really that powerful and can be so helpful in my life.I wanted to really, you know, see what it's about. So I could work it to my benefit. Right? So this documentary really part of it talks about what I just mentioned, but the, the main catalyst was again, [00:05:00] paying attention to current events and just continuing to see more articles about churches closing and more and more people walking away from the church and religion.And I think the tipping point Devana and for me was when I started doing some research about ministers and priests who were coming out. Right. I mean, I can't think of anything more taboo than coming out as a nonbeliever. If you're a priest or a minister. Religious, you know, someone in the clergy, nothing.I can't think of anything more taboo than that. So when I did re because I, I wasn't sure that there were people like that, but I started doing some research in 2017 just to see if I could find any stories about that. And that led me to something called the clergy project, which was a project dedicated specifically [00:06:00] to people like this.People in the clergy who had changed their minds about God and religion. And didn't have a place to go to kind of talk about it, get support. So the clergy project was started, I think in 2012 or something like that, specifically as a place for these people to go, to get, get Presa ministers, clergy, people, to kind of talk about their feelings, cuz they were in a lot of pain, right.It's almost, you know, it's like being L G B T or transgender. Right. And not having a place to go and talk about that. Right. You know, if you're, if you're in a society that is not supportive of who you are as a person and what you think and how you believe you're gonna be living a very isolated life with a lot of pain and feeling afraid to talk about these things are a big part [00:07:00] of who you are and what you, how you think.So. The clergy project was really intriguing to me. And that to me, was the tipping point. The idea of these priest ministers coming out, I thought would make an interesting documentary. I didn't think my story was that unique because there's just so many people who grew up religious and through circumstances over time, change their perspective on that.There's nothing really that unique about that. But when you start talking about clergy members who spent their career as, as a priest or minister or something like that, and then suddenly, or maybe not so suddenly, but for whatever reason to they no longer believe, I thought that was a very subject that deserved to be looked at.And I thought that would at least be the start of my documentary, where it went from there. I wasn't totally sure, but that was the, that was the tipping point for me to say I've gotta try making something [00:08:00] about this, cuz this is just too interesting.De'Vannon: Hmm. Yeah. So in the, in the video and that is a very interesting point. It, it seemed like it, it, the, the part about the clergy coming out was kind of sprinkled through it. And I seemed like it got a little bit more gritty about it towards the end. And I do have a lot of questions that I want to ask about the clergy, but before I get on that, I want to kind of kinda lay a bit of framework here.So, and I wanna read like, Like a, a quote from this, or from, from about the from about the film that I thought was interesting and says that the, the fastest growing religion in the United States seems to be no religion at all. [00:09:00] A 2016 study conducted by the public religion research Institute found that a quarter of the subject survey claim, no religious affiliate and this surprising figure increased substantially among the younger generation.Now in the video, it was showing like I think it was graphs or charts about how, how, how, how younger people like at each generation less and less, less and less seemed to have any sort of religious affiliation at all. And I thought that this was so interesting because like, I'm about to be 40 this year.And my boyfriend's 25. And so. And so, so all his friends are like in between like maybe 21 and 25, you know, somewhere around in that range. And when it comes to the matters of religion and stuff like that, all of them that I know of so far are the same way. They're just kind of like, we don't do religion, you know, we just don't have that.You know, it's not what they [00:10:00] do and stuff like that. And I thought about, you know, as to why this could be, you know, you know, what example do they have to really go of, you know, look at what look at what has become of the church, you know, with the, with the preachers leaving and what, how crazy religion looks on television?You know, you got all your evangelicals and all the Republican nonsense mixed into it, you know, why do you think that that so many young people specifically like young people are not interested in religion? I think it's because of the bad example that, that they have had to look at, but what do you think.John: Don't know. I think, you know, it doesn't really matter what I think. I think it's just, you know, I, what concerns me a little bit is when I talk about this film to people and tell them the title of it, they think that I'm anti God and that this film is about my opinion [00:11:00] and my bias against God. And that's not what the film is about.I mean, you watched it. This is a documentary and I, I approached it like an investigative journalist and then talking about what's happening. Starting with these priest ministers who are now leaving the church and then talking about the statistics of the general population and then weaving my personal story into it for, you know, the second half of the film.So I mean, I'm glad to give you my opinion, but my opinion doesn't really matter. I want people to come to their own, you know, come to their own conclusions. I'm no expert, I'm no theolo, you know, theologian it doesn't, you know, why people are leaving. Everyone's got their own reasons. I just, you know, I, I think that it doesn't the, the, I would guess that the younger people are leaving more and more are leaving religion in church is because it doesn't serve them in a, in [00:12:00] a way that it serve their parents.I mean, I can just tell you from my experience, I mean, the reason. I grew up religious is because my parents this was part of their tradition. It was just a thing to do on Sunday. You went to church and if you didn't, it was a sin. So there was, you know, some, some some of that fear of God and extend there to keep you, you know, going to church on, on Sunday. One of the things I point out in the film Devana and is one of the, the, the, the reasons, many people especially people of a certain age, younger people under, under 40 has been the internet because they have more access to information. If they're, if they wanna get, get the facts on stuff, they can, they can research it.So there was an interesting graph that I showed. In the film that that the, the shift away from religion began B about 30 years ago in the early to mid nineties. And it has increased significantly [00:13:00]since then for, you know, up, up until about the, the early nineties, it was about five to 7% of people who consider themselves nonreligious. But since since that time it's gone up significantly every year. And even since I made the film in 2016, it's gone up about 5%. When I made the film, I was using a, a pew research statistic from 2016 that said it was about 24% or 25%. And just two months ago, they came out with an update on that.It's now closer to 30%. So there is a parallel between people walking away from church, religion, and God, and use of the internet. So that may be a contributing factor. De'Vannon: Right? Well, I appreciate your, your insight on that. I love the sharing of insights and opinions, you know, because it's thought provoking, it'll still get people thinking, you know, and it'll still lead them to their own, [00:14:00] to their own conclusions, but sometimes people need that little nudge.And so, so speaking more on the preachers who came out, you know, it's so interesting whenever I hear the term coming out and using a reference, that's not G B T Q I a. And so But it still, it still echoes the same vulnerability and risk of exposure and fear that can mean coming out. And so yeah, on the video, you've got these preachers going on, television preachers who had, you know, were, had, you know, pretty high up and everything like that.Now they're no longer in these religions anymore because of various reasons. You know, and then there, and one of em, I just should say one of 'em was from Louisiana. One of the guys that I profiled Jerry, I can't remember his last name, but you may recall if you watch it recently. Devana and at the end of the film, I, I took some, some a clip from a New York times [00:15:00] documentary that followed this guy around for a while.John: And He had a really hard time. I mean, it's, it's hard enough coming out anywhere as a nonbeliever, but when you're in the deep south in a small town, Louisiana, I don't have to tell you what that's like. And his wife left him his congregation, you know, naturally turned on him. He was outta work.He had to leave the state eight. He basically, he, he was like a man without a country. And I don't know what he's doing now, but he really paid the price for coming out as a nonbeliever, which is why it's so courageous, I think to do it's like, you know, now I just watched a clip on tick to talk. Talking about the the Russian propaganda machine and they showed a clip of a Russian female newscaster, just, you know, like a robotically reading the script from Putin about what's going on and right behind her, there was a, a, a woman holding [00:16:00] up a, a sign saying this is all bullshit. They're you're telling you lies, just went up.It went viral. So it takes a lot of courage. I guess I'm making a parallel sometimes to stand up for what you believe, you know, you're gonna pay the price. So I, I, I, I can't tell you how much admiration and respect I have for people who are willing to come out for what they believe when it's not popular.De'Vannon: Right. And I found the interesting that when these preachers came out, it's like they turned. Into into like atheists. It's like the, the, cause a lot of the quotes you have towards the end of the film are like kind of like, you know, atheistic in nature. So I can kind of see how some of the people you were saying in the beginning, how some people might see that you might feel like you're Antigo.I kind of was thinking that too, by the end of the film, like I wonder if he's Antigo, like, I don't know. I'm gonna ask him about that. So where exactly [00:17:00] at your point in your life, do you stand on God? And then I want to get back to, to this vibe that I was getting from the preachers in the film. Okay. So I'm not John: Antigo. And just the quotes that you're referring to were from people like mark Twain mm-hmm and George Washington and people like that who made comments. That were very quotable that basically shared their opinion about God or church mm-hmm . So again, this is nothing about this film, this opinion, those were quotes from these people.And I think there's a lot of people in America that have a belief that this that our forefathers wrote the constitution based on a Christian perspective. And some of the quotes, I some of the people that I quote are from the founding fathers [00:18:00] kind of contradict that, that theory. So, and again, you can look up, you can research everything that I have in the movie. Is you is, is true. And you, you could, you could research it yourself, but I just thought it would be interesting to just share the perspective of some, some famous people who had perspectives on what I just talked about in the film about God and religion mm-hmm and, and church. So yeah, so I, I'm not Antigo, I don't really care what people believe as long as it doesn't mess with my life.You know what I'm saying? As long as they don't tell me that I've gotta, you know, I think the problem start, the problem I start having with, with religion is when it gets political, I, I really, you know, talking about our forefathers, anyone knows, who knows anything about the constitution knows that there's, there's a division between church and state John Adams, when he [00:19:00] wrote and, and Thomas Jefferson, when they constructed.The declaration of independence in the constitution were very clear about that. They wanted to make sure that unlike things in England and other countries, they didn't didn't want politics and, and religion to to cross pollinate. They wanted to have a definite separation between church and religion.They didn't wanna have any ministers telling people to be involved with people's rights as human beings and, and the things that they put in the, in the, the constitution. So what's happening is that, especially in the, in the Republican party they have crossed that line many times. I mean, I think religion has become a big part for many politicians, especially in the Republican party and the constitution and the declaration of independence [00:20:00] is very clear about keeping that separate De'Vannon: too true, too true.I say that all the time, but you know, here we are. So what, what, what interested me the else about the preachers in your film? It's like they went from being all about God and in the church and whenever whatever happened, it caused them to be done with that. Like, one of them was preaching like. Like kind of like, you don't need Donna.There is no, like you don't need, there is no divine power out there. You already have all, all the power that you need within you. So it's, it was like he abandoned all concepts of God all together and then he switched gears. And so, and it reminded me of how I felt when I got kicked out of Lakewood church in Houston, Texas, you know, for not being straight.And, and I, and I took a very negative reaction to that. And then I stopped associating with God and I never got to a point where I was like, he doesn't exist, but I stopped going to [00:21:00] church and everything like that because of the hurt that I received there. And so, which was, which was an immature to, for me to do, I shouldn't have done that.I should have, you know, I taken a more positive approach to that. Got some counseling, went to a gay affirming church and not let what happened at Lakewood cause me to stop, you know, my faith all together. Are John: you or at Lakewood? Is that Joel Stein, right? Oh, wow. Okay. De'Vannon: So and so and so I have a blog about that on my website and I go into detail and in my memoir, but you know, I wasn't, you know, I'm not straight.And I was, you know, singing the adult choir. I was teaching the kids ministry worship leading in the kids ministry. And I applied for a job there. They went look up, looked up my social media on MySpace page as a part of their application process, cuz the, the 2, 2, 2 or three years that I've volunteered there four or five, you know, at least what 1, 2, 4 days a week at the church, wasn't enough to vouch for my, my work ethic.[00:22:00] They needed to go ask my space as well. And so while, while they were looking, they saw that I was hanging out in S which is the gay district in Houston. And I had a really RA photo on my cover. So because of that, they fired me from all the aspects of ministry and everything like that. And so. And so that's John: how they, so what did they, did they give you a reason for that to van on when they fired you?Did they tell you, why did they say, you know, we don't like gay people. De'Vannon: She said that you can't be doing that hanging out there with them. Ah John: so did you ask her to be more,go there with them. I love that. De'Vannon: so it was on me because I shouldn't have lied on the application. When I filled out the application, the volunteer in the kids ministry, they had on their straight up, like, we don't want gay people were being around our children [00:23:00] and you know, the mind that I have now, really, they actually John: had that.Yes, that was on in, in writing. In writing. Yes. And this is Joel Olsteen's church saying we don't want, hold on a second.We don't the, we don't want gay people hanging around our children, correct. With Joel Olstein church. Okay. De'Vannon: And so, okay, John: go ahead. I wonder what he, I wonder what he would say if he was interviewed about that and confronted with that on their application. I wonder how he would answer that you should get him on your show. Davanonhe would make a great kiss for you. De'Vannon: I don't know what I would ever say if I was face to face with him, but, you know, I don't know how good it would go. I need to, I need to mature my war before that day comes. So, but I thought, John: I thought they're [00:24:00] supposed to love everyone. De'Vannon: You know, churches are not like that.You know, they are, they have an agenda. Every church has an agenda. Tell me about it. And you know, but for all, and it's not just. And that sort of stuff happens at all kinds of churches. The Hillsong church in Australia, which are very good friends with Lakewood church have the same policy. And they're very bold about it.They're like no gay people can be on staff or volunteer here. They said it countless times. They don't give a fuck. So, and but you know, the mind that I have now, if I ever come across that on an application or something, then I know that that's simply not the organization for me to be at, but I had just got out of the military serving during don't ask don't tell.And so I was conditioned to function in an environment where I couldn't fully be myself. So I just thought it was another Don as don't tell situation. I've had some PE, some legal friends of mine tell me that it's not legal for a church to do that. I didn't even know that it even much gotten to the realm of illegality.You know, I just was like, well, [00:25:00] I wanna volunteer. I'm not trying to like, fuck any children or anything like that. So. That's, you know, and especially with the litany of paperwork, you know, they do like full background checks and every damn thing on new social security numbers, you know, and everything just to volunteer.It's not like, it's not like I'm gonna give them all of that information on me, how to find me and everything to go in there and commit a crime. It's like the dumbest thing John: did you van, and I'm curious is because I don't know if it's legal or not, but I would wonder about that. Did you ever do any research on that or speak to any legal authorities to find out if that's De'Vannon: true?No. And even because by the time I got done with all of my nervous breakdown and everything that that helped to contribute to we're talking a good10 years after, so whatever statute of limitations, I was sure it would've been pass that, but it would never hurt to look into cuz I didn't, I think the person who I was talking to said it gets into the realm of like discrimination or something like that. [00:26:00] And so, which made sense when they said it, but I was so.Fucked up in my head whenever they fired me from volunteering that I, that I couldn't, I couldn't even much, I didn't think I was just like, okay, well fuck them. And so, but, but the preacher in the film reminded me of that because when he was talking about how he doesn't really believe in God anymore, we don't.And you know, it sounded to me like he was coming from like a place of pain and it sounded like he was still hurting from that. And it really reminded me of how I was back then. And I wonder, you know, in the future, once he's healed, you know, if all of that, if he would still be like, you know, anti, he was very more like, like anti guy.And he was saying like, there's nothing Toine, you know? And so, so I, I, so I wanna encourage people, you know, Not to conflate church and God, you know, those are two separate things, religion, and [00:27:00] God are two separate things. And the confusion that I had when I got kicked outta Lakewood was I didn't separate the two.And so when the church rejected me, I took that as though God had rejected me and I allowed that to it cause a rift where there should not have been a rift, you know? And I feel like, well, they're John: pretty, you have to admit, they're pretty connected. religion and God. Right. De'Vannon: Well, when I say religion, I mean denominations like denominations churches, the physical manifestation of what God is supposed to be, they are connected.But at the same time, it's like, they're not, it's like when two people are married, they're connected and they do become one in many ways. But at the same time, they're very much still individuals and, and everything that a preacher says is not. The divine voice of God. And every decision at a church makes is not the divine will of God.And so we gotta learn how to put them together when they are together, but how to separate them when they need to be separated. [00:28:00] Cuz they're not always in tandem. John: So divine and I'm gonna make a suggestion to you. I, I it sounds like you're not ready to have, have Joel Olstein as a guest on your show, but here's someone that you might, you might be open to because while you were talking about refr referencing that, that minister in my film, I just remembered the guy's name.And he is, he is the guy from Louisiana. His name is Jerry Dewitt, D E w I T T. So if he's written a couple of books he's had a podcast. So if you pop him into Google I think he will find him. Jerry that's J Jerry with a J E R R Y D E w I T T. And you could, you could invite him on your show and ask him these questions yourself.He might, you know, since you're a Louisiana boy and, and he is too he might, he might be to be on your guest mm-hmm [00:29:00] and, you know, talk to a homeboy De'Vannon: I'll reach out. You never know what could be. It would be great. Yeah. To talk to someone who used to be in clergy who left. Yeah. You know, I'm coming from a, from a volunteer perspective, he's coming from a, from aler clergy's per perspective.That could be pretty kick ass. Yeah. So, John: so, so like I said, I don't, you know, I, I, I kind of, I get off on a tangent there, but you know, as far as my feelings about. Being against God. Again, I, I don't this is a free country. People are free to be who they are and believe in what they want to, as long as it doesn't mess with my life.And the only way someone's belief in a particular religion or God would mess with my life is it's that starts getting involved with politics. For example, if I was a woman and I believed in abortion and I had some [00:30:00] co you know, ultra conservative or evangelical Congress, people who were trying to overturn Roe versus the, the, he weighed, then I would probably have a problem with that.Do you know what I'm saying De'Vannon: as do I, and you know, the crazy thing about it is the whole concept of what God is. It's subjective. Everybody's gonna have a different opinion about that. How to interpret scripture as subjective. Everybody's gonna have a different opinion about that. You know, there's, there's precedent in the Bible about why it's not a good idea to try to establish laws against people based on your personal beliefs.And that is, that is the main takeaway that I get from the convert version story of SA, because what did Saul do before he became Paul? He was a big person in the San Hedron. The San Hedron was a part of the religious people who governed, you know, over there in the middle east. He went to them, got permission to go and [00:31:00] persecute people who were not living according to his opinion of how they should.That's exactly what it was. I believe in this. They're not living how I think they should. So I'm gonna go make them do it. That was his whole point of going to Damascus and Jesus knocks him off his horse, the blinding light, the whole story. We know how it goes. And Jesus is like, yo dude, cut this shit out.This is not how I want you to go about it. And that's exactly what Republicans are doing when they say, Hey, we think those people over there should live a different way. Let's go make some laws to force 'em it's the same thing. But when they read through the Bible, they're not reading about it on how to improve themselves.They're reading. If they read it at all, you know, is about how to change other people. And when I was in seminary, before I left seminary, one of the reasons I left seminary was cuz one of the professors was just like, yeah, we want to control people in churches. And he said this as, just as just like the sky is [00:32:00] blue.And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? so, and John: he actually said he wants to control people. Yes. He was at the law, profess least he was on, at least he was honest about De'Vannon: it. At least he was honest, but I was, but it wasn't just him, but all the classmates were nodding in agreement. Like they didn't have a problem with what this man was saying.And so he was like, and he was coming from a Baptist background if I recall correctly. And, and I was just like, no, we would not be controlling people. it's not what this is about. But, but the Republican culture and everything like that is so much about control, which I believe stems from insecurities and fear within people cuz confident, happy.People don't go about the business of trying to make life miserable for other people. , you know, it's just not what we do. We're too busy being happy. so, right, right. John: And so, well, they think they're on a mission. This is what, what the problem I have with religion and ultra religious people is because [00:33:00] they feel like they're on a mission from God and they're doing in God's will it's the same motive behind the, do you know, have you heard of the crusades?Do you know what the crusades were about? Are you to history? Yes. Okay. Do you know, do you know what the crusades De'Vannon: are about? Yeah. That's getting into the church, like prosecuting people and I think like heritage fix, you know, and maybe John: like the crusades, the crusades were A mission done. I think they were done in the, in the 10 or 11 hundreds that were initiated by a couple of popes during that time period where they felt that they were on a mission from God to convert the people who were not Christians and sent all their troops kind of, kind of like what Putin is doing to Ukraine. These guys did to the middle east, they got all their, their armies and their weapons, and they went on a mission from God, their, on their, on their [00:34:00] shirts, the van, their would be these big red crosses. They, they that's how they identified themselves. These big, giant red crosses. They were, they were so Christian soldiers and they got these huge forces and they marched into the middle east.And they just started slaughtering people because it was easy for them to do because when you, when you look at people who don't think the way you do or look the way you do, it's easy to minimize them. Right. And it's easier to to do bad stuff to them because you think that they're less right? They're, they're, Heins, they're nonbelievers, so it's an easy excuse to kill them.And, and that's what the, the crusades were about. They were doing. They totally believe they were on a mission from God. And in God's name, just murdered. Tens of thousands of people. I mean, look it up. It's pretty, pretty scary. De'Vannon: Yeah. I do have [00:35:00] that I wrote a blog about that and I have a, a link and they called it like, I think like the inquisition and I think they labeled people as like heretics and I think there was like a, that's John: a different that's that's, that's similar, but different.Okay. Similar that is different than the crusades. Okay. But same idea. You know, going after people that don't think a certain way, that's, that's the, the common thread between the two. De'Vannon: That makes sense. But, but John: I, you know, I'm making a parallel, you mentioned the Republicans and again, the parallel that they believe that many of them are evangelical.And if I, if I'm, if I'm Understand it correctly is that the whole idea is that you've gotta basically convert everyone to think the way you do evangelize. That's the whole premise of E even I can't even say evangelism to, to, you know, go out and witness and change [00:36:00] people and convert people. And to your minister's point, control people, you know, that's not uncommon that he was evangelical.You said, and that's what he said to you. And that that's what many evangelicals believe they might not be. So honest about it. You know, Joel may not admit that that's what he is looking to do. That you've gotta be a certain way. You've gotta look a certain way. You've gotta have a certain sexuality.You've gotta conform to their version of the Bible. And if you don't off with your head, That, De'Vannon: that mentality seemed to kind of like prevail because when they fired me, they let me know that I wasn't the first one, they were like, we do this all the time. , you know, you know, the, they did offer, you should have John: been wearing a wire.You should have been wearing a wire. So you had that on, on, on all De'Vannon: audio. Well, you know, this is back like. Gosh, [00:37:00] and maybe like 2008, 2009. So the concept of everything being recorded and being so available, I think we may have just been converting from flip phones and shit, you know, and pages, you know, technology.Wasn't like, you know, everything, wasn't like, Ooh, I got you on camera. You know? Yeah, no, no, I'm John: just I and De'Vannon: facetious. But I've thought about that before, like how great it would be if I, if I could, if I would've had that recorded, you know, and stuff like that. But I had no idea that that's what they would've done.Cause I thought maybe I was gonna actually be getting hired or something, but instead, instead I got fired. Well you, when you saw, when you watched my doc, I I had a somewhat similar situation where I received a letter from the church saying don't come to Bible study anymore. Remember that part in the film.Right. Right. Because you cause you, you y'all had an interesting thing going on where you had a singles ministry at this church now we're in New York city and it was like the marble something collegiate marble [00:38:00] collegiate church. And the singles group was twenties and thirties. You were in your forties and they had a real strict thing about that.So they would, as you say, in the film, tap people on the shoulder in a way and tell them, Hey, you're too old. So stop coming here. And John: so what was, well, it wasn't, it wasn't let me just interrupt you. It wasn't real strict. Because we're talking about as an experience in the film or part in the film.I talk about experience. I had, where I was kind of dragged into a Bible study. I really wasn't interested in going, but someone dragged me into this thing. It was after the, the Sunday sermon and there were probably 40 people in there and there were quite a few people in there that were over 40. I looked around and I was not the, I was maybe 45, 46 at the time. So I I was reluctant to go because I thought it was strict. I thought, you know, you get carted at the door to make sure you're, you're under 40, which you know, is kind of silly when you think of a church, both about how inclusive they are [00:39:00] to restrict a Bible study to people of a certain age. I don't really understand the logic behind that, but I certainly was not the only one who was over 40. And, and even though that's the reason that they gave me in the letter that I shouldn't continue going the real reason is I suspect something that was quite different that I mentioned in the film. De'Vannon: Right? Because you challenged the the preacher, he asked the question. And then your, he asked if anyone had any questions during this Bible study and your question was something like, what is truth?Oh, no, your question was, is it true? Correct. And then he was silent. He really couldn't say much. And then you said something to kind of help him out of the rabbit hole that, that he found him. And then he said something like, truth is objective or like, what is truth? Right. John: Which was a pretty lame answer.As far as I was concerned. well, churches do, but, but it [00:40:00] was, it was shortly thereafter that I received a letter saying we really value you as person and don't come to Bible study anymore. You're too old. De'Vannon: Right, but in the video, you know, and that sucks that that happened to you. But in the video you said that, that, that, that did happen to other people.And then you observed that those people not only stopped going to the group, but they stopped going to the church as well. And I, I, and I, and that's a very, I thought that was very interesting point because sometimes when I tell people say I got kicked out of lake, it, they go that they tell you, you can't come back.And then I have to make it clear. When you kick a person out of one, part of a church, you kick them out of the whole church because it makes it very fucking awkward. When you try to go back there, it feels weird. It feels, I don't even have a word for it. It feels alien. Suddenly you just don't, it feels like a whole different world.When someone's told you that you, [00:41:00] for being who you are being the age or who you choose to love how old you are or whatever physical characteristic you have or something that. You really can't help. We don't want you here. John: well, it makes you feel like you're not fully accepted, De'Vannon: right? So you don't have to say bitch, leave the whole church and don't come back.You know, just telling someone to get out of any part of it, because a church is, is not supposed to be like that. You can't like everyone come on in, the doors are open, but we only want certain, certain of you in certain portions of the church, you know, that just doesn't work that way. Well, what John: I, what I, what I've discovered dev van en sounds like you've discovered it as well, is what churches say and what they do are often very different things.De'Vannon: This is true. And a big part of my ministry, my calling, whatever you want to refer to it as is to get people to a point where [00:42:00] they can. See, what, what is real and what is fake and understand, like you say, in your video, that just because someone's a preacher doesn't mean that they are right, or that they're gonna be right all the time.They're just human. And and so, so we gotta take these preachers and pastors off of these pedestals, we gotta take these churches off of these pedestals. Now, you know, a word came up called, try that somebody in your film said, and I thought that that was very interesting. And he said that our tribal instincts can override our rational thought of a writer.One once upon a time said, no, man is an island. Okay. Because we have this innate sense to, to congregate. Be it gangs to be it in a church. Be it. And the military, you know, this, this, this there's this group, you know, we need each other. And so we are always gonna find some kind of way. When I got kicked outta church, I replaced the church group with the, with the nightlife.And then I began to dive deeper into like the clubs and stuff like that. And that's ultimately how I became a [00:43:00] drug dealer. And I didn't know it then, but we're gonna always and seek out communities some kind of way, because that's just how we're designed. And then in the case of, and then we let our need for community override our rational.So we'll stay at the church and listen to the preacher and try to be involved. Even though we've seen things that we know don't make sense, you know, and we rationalize it a way.Which ain't good. You know, if we see something and it doesn't make sense, then that should be addressed. If if the priest are abusing the altar boys or different people, we can't just sweep it under the rug and rationalize it away and go, oh, I'll just stay right. John: Well, it's almost like being in a bad marriage, right?You're you're in a marriage and you get used to it. I, and the longer you're in it, the more you're willing to accept bad behavior because you're kind of used to it. And you kind of you rationalize that while there's a lot of good [00:44:00] in it. Because it's hard to walk away. I mean, a church for many people and certainly was with me was a very big part of my life.Mm-hmm so it's easy to rationalize. Well, it's not perfect. And no church, what church is perfect. Right? And it's, you know, it's a very, and listen, I don't fault people for thinking that way to each his own, you know, they're right. Nothing is totally perfect. The church that I went to in New York, wasn't perfect.But the reason I stayed involved with it as long as I did is be because of tribalism, I, I looked forward to seeing my friends every Sunday. Sometimes I would just skip the sermon and I'd go straight to the coffee hour, just so I could hang out with my friends. That was very, very, a big, important part of my life in New York city that I valued.But once I got over were 40 and was not so welcome in the, in the singles group, they really didn't have a singles group for I'm trying to think. Oh yeah, they [00:45:00] did have a singles group for people. Over 40 and everyone was 70. So I remember Dick dip dipping my toe in there when I was like 42. And the next youngest person to me was like 63.So I did not feel like trying to ingratiate myself to a new group with people were you know, 10, 15, 20 years older than me, especially when I'd been just part of a group for the past 15 years of people, many, many people just, you know, a couple of years younger than me. So I didn't really, I, I didn't like the fact that they had a hard cutoff at 40, you know, I, I, I just thought that didn't make a whole lot of sense.Like, what are they trying to tell you that if you're not married by the time you're 40, you're a loser, you know, which is kind of what they were saying. At least that's a message. That's how I interpreted. De'Vannon: In, in other churches, Lakewood and other churches too. Have, [00:46:00] you know, the, the groups divided by ages, I think just either have a singles fucking group or don't have one regardless of the age, because a 20 year old, a 20 year old may be attracted to a 60 year old.You know, the very concept of that is trying to act like is trying to force people into a certain age range. That's very presumptuous. John: Yeah. And, you know, listen, it, it it really hurt a lot of people. I mean, I was just a little perturbed by it, but there are a lot of women very attractive, smart career women in New York city, right.Who spend most of their twenties and thirties focusing on their career, which is very much the case of the kind of women you meet in New York city. So, you know, here they are Approaching 40. Right. And now suddenly they're thinking, gee I, I, I do I wanna have a family? Do I wanna switch gears here? I'm still single. But at least church is a big part of my life. And then having a, being, having them [00:47:00] get tapped on the shoulder saying us, sorry, you're out of this group. I mean, that was a pretty big deal for a lot of those women who were really, really hurt by the fact that they were no longer welcome.Welcome in this single group is hard enough for anyone to turn 40. You're gonna be turning 40, but especially at think in our society for women. I don't think, you know, our society is rarely friendly to women that you know, of a certain age, older women. So that's a pretty big birthday for many women.And on top of dealing with that on an emotional, psychological level to have your church saying sorry we, you really can't come to this group anymore group that they may have been a part of for 5, 10, 15 years, where all their friends were to get, you know, tapped outta that group. That makes no sense to me, especially coming from a church that on their website says how inclusive [00:48:00] they are and welcoming they are to everyone.De'Vannon: Yeah. And then it just, its a certain type of.That I just, it just can't be described because you think about the money that you've given to the church and the time you spent volunteering and stuff like that, it does feel like a marriage or some sort of relationship and to be dismissed from it, for any for, and unless you've done something bad against the church and like stolen their money or actually done something, then maybe they could say something, but they still shouldn't dismiss you.It feels like a bad breakup. And John: for me it means bad. It's bad business. I have to say, you know, from a business perspective, listen, every, every church is paying attention to their finances. Right? So the last thing you want to do is do something that's going to Get people to leave your church, especially when you're in your early forties, [00:49:00] in New York city, you're in your prime earning years.And this is what I mentioned in the film. Why would you wanna do something that upsets someone enough that they're gonna walk away from, from the church and stop giving their charitable contributions? I mean, the church, their lifeblood are, is charitable contributions. So, you know, loosen up a little bit with your, with your rules on Bible studies.You know, I mean, gimme a freaking break here and stop scaring people away or not scaring people away, but push people away with a stupid rule. Like, you know, an age thing. It just, it just made no sense to me. And when I brought that to the attention of the minister minister, who I knew was interested.In keeping people coming to the church because he hired me to do an ad campaign to attract more people. So I knew he was very concerned about attracting and keeping people to, to [00:50:00] the church. I didn't understand why he just kind of dismissed the fact that that people were leaving the church because they felt as you said, you kick 'em outta one group.They're not gonna feel welcome. If that's the main connection to the church, there's a good chance that they're gonna stop coming to that church. If they can't continue going to that group where all their friends are,De'Vannon: these are decisions that people make when they're not accustomed to being rejected or being told they can't come places.So, you know, people. You would hope to not to get that same sort of behavior from people who are, have been the victim of discrimination and all kinds of prejudice throughout life, but people who have always been accepted will never get why, why, why do they, why, why did they just leave? You know, we only kicked them outta one part.We don't see what the big is. That's right. That's right. So right. But you know, when I think about preachers like that, I hope and pray that they [00:51:00] didn't start out with cold hearts. You know, you know, my, my spiritual leader told me that, you know, a preacher is either gonna be really, really strong or really, really weak.And that, that, that there's no in between. And so it, to me, like maybe these preachers start out with the best of intentions, but in the process of time, as the congregation grows, as the money grows, you know, or something like that, maybe their, maybe their motives get corrupt, but, and they don't even realize that it's happening, cuz it happens so gradually. You know, maybe it is all at once, but there's not much we can do about that, but I want church people and people who still look up the preachers and listen at what they say to become, to have a greater level of scrutiny that they, than what they have now to actually judge what the preachers saying and not just accept that it's fact.And if some foolishness shows up, then the whole, their priest you're accountable, they don't get to get away with things and, you know, and, you know, and, and things matter like that. [00:52:00] Right. You a quote that you had in here, which stuck out in my nogging a concerning your, your marriage, you know, you, you know, you, your divorced man, and you talk about that.In the film. You said, if I had to pick a moment, when my attitude about God began to sour, this would be it you're talking about a woman that you had met in church. I think it may have been in the singles group that I'm not sure. Yeah, but like it, wasn't the singles group, you in church, everything's going great.All the boxes are checked, but a few weeks later there's trouble. You, you said you felt betrayed by her in, by God. John: So for your listeners I'll do a little ex explaining here in the film. I talk about a woman. I met at church in the singles group that I got married to. And the quote that Devana just referred to was [00:53:00] the quote that I said in the film that Happened the day I got married in the church that if there was a time that my attitude about church and God began to sour this would be it the day that I got married at the church.And the reason I said that, and as I share in the film is that despite the fact that I met this woman in church, and I thought the marriage was ordained by God. Our marriage went downhill immediately. I mean, immediately it was a crash and burn that could never have predicted, and I didn't understand it. It like, it was like my wife had become turned into a different person. Immediately after we got married, I didn't understand what was going on. It seemed pretty clear that even though she gave me an ultimatum, it's kind of ironic because I wasn't so [00:54:00] sure about getting married and it took her giving me an ultimatum to make the decision to get married. And, but once I made that decision, I was, I was committed. But my wife's attitude seemed not, seemed, definitely changed immediately after we got married. And I was blindsided by it and I couldn't in it because as I said, I thought this marriage and this relationship was ordained by God.So it really challenged. My beliefs in God, when the marriage started going downhill and we were in marriage counseling and I was impersonal, we were in personal counseling, but she got involved with another guy. And didn't seem that interested in getting back with me. So, so it didn't really matter how much I tried, if I'm with a partner who is not exhibiting behavior to support the idea of [00:55:00]being in a marriage anymore. And we went through, we were separated for almost three years, so I was not willing to give up on the marriage, even after I found out that she had been involved with another guy, I was willing to continue to work on the marriage and try to get it back on track. She did not seem to have that similar perspective.And so that kind of changed my attitude about things being ordained by God. And that's when I began questioning the whole idea of God and all that stuff. Why? But I thought our marriage was based on that. Why De'Vannon: did you think it was ordained by God? What did God did God tell you something that he speak to you in some way to make you believe?John: Well, first of all, I met the woman in church, so that's a good start, right? When you meet someone in church, you think, okay, maybe God has something to do with bringing us together because it is God's house, right? [00:56:00] That's what church is supposed to big God's De'Vannon: house. I'll say that that's an assumption that a lot of us make.And I used to be that way when I attended churches and I was in singles groups too. And that that's a pitfall. I wanna warn people right now, not to get into, as you walk through life with God and you gain spiritual understanding, don't go put God's mouth on things. You know, if he didn't speak, just cuz you're in church and you meet some woman or some dude or whatever.That don't mean automatically that you should run off and marry them as they say, not everyone in church is saved, you know, and not, not everything, not everything that happens under his roof is ordained by him. But see, we get caught up in our emotions and stuff like that. And then, and then, and the stuff the preachers are telling us, and then we, sometimes we wanna say that that's the voice of, of God when God didn't actually speak.And so, so basically you're saying y'all met in church. All the, the boxes are being checked. This looks like it would be of God, but God didn't necessarily speak to you personally. [00:57:00] Well, John: I thought I had a supernatural experience to Von. Okay. In addition to what I just said beyond the fact that we met in church and our relationship blossomed at church events and retreats that we attended together, but there was one experience that I, I was, I had convinced myself was a supernatural met that I received from God.And that was when we were sitting in church one Sunday morning. And as the minister was preaching about something to do with God's love and bringing people together, whatever he was talking about at the moment he was talking about God's love and loving people. I felt myself. Bathed in light and brightness.And the reason I felt that way is because there was a beam of light that was coming through one of the stain glass windows and was shining directly on me and my [00:58:00] girlfriend at the time. So it was a very, very directed beam of light that was just hitting the, the window at a certain way. That for at least maybe a minute or two was illuminating, the two of us.And I said, oh my God, this is the sign. Because I at the am, we had been going out for a while and I think she had been kind of hinting at getting married. And I, I still had some doubts about whether or not this was something I, I was ready to do. So when that experience happened to me, I thought it was a sign by a sign from God.De'Vannon: Do you still think it was? No. So if it wasn't a sign from God, do you think maybe you kinda like ma made it up or just, just, this is what you believe, what you were wrong. John: Listen, when you, when you're, when you're indoctrinated into religious thought, right. It's easier for [00:59:00] you to justify natural things as supernatural De'Vannon: Uhhuh.yeah, that does happen too. So we, so we wanna avoid that. We wanna gain discernment. We wanna always be praying for discernment so we can see the truth of things. And but you know, to me, like, You know, with her, you know, seeing the other guy she's actually having sex with him, she's become an adultist, you know, at this point, you know, you know, was she that, you know of, you said she was seeing the other guy, do you know she was sleeping with him?Yes. Cuz I asked her. Okay. And so that's according to G she and John: she, and she admitted it. De'Vannon: Oh, she was a bold bitch, you know? And according to Jesus' teachings, you know, the only reason that people can lawfully get divorces in the case of infidelity. So it's almost like God was giving you a way out through this, whether you wanted to take it, you know, or not, at least the door was [01:00:00] open to, to the divorce legally, this, this brings me to another issue I take with people who take issue with people, meaning like you're.Straight people, quote, unquote, your Republicans and everything like that. And these preachers who are on like their fifth marriage and shit who get divorced all the time, for reasons other than infidelity, but in the Bible, you know, Jesus said, if you get divorced for any reason, other than infidelity, then that's wrong.And this voice he's concerned that you're still married. Yet. We find in churches all across the land that people in, all these unions have been divorced, but it was not for infidelity. And somehow it's perfectly okay. And then they continue on preaching against gay people and women who won get, get, get abortions and everything like that.But they don't really preach too much about how you're supposed to stay married unless it's for infidelity. So that's one of my pet peeves that I have now. I don't go around judging people who were divorced for reasons other than infidelity. Cuz I don't care. [01:01:00] Cuz like you said, what, what they're doing and who they're fucking don't affect me.But since they wanna have problems with other people, you know, I bring it up because there's they're because they're hypocrites. Now you, during this time you went to go see a, a preacher, a priest or whatever, cuz he is, this is a Catholic church, right? Not a Catholic church. Okay. No, no. This is a preacher. And and he told you to stay married. He's like divorce is not the way, but then later on he would get like, I think two divorces or something like that.And I don't think he was removed from that post from being a preacher. And so how did that make? He was, John: he was the, he was the head minister of the church that I'd been going to for 15 years. De'Vannon: Okay. He was a head minister. He told you not to get divorced later on. He gets a divorce twice, twice. How did that, how did that make you feel?John: Well, what do you think?De'Vannon: I might have said some John: exploitation. The, the H I, you, I think you [01:02:00] said it earlier, it's the H word hypot. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I can't think of anything more hypocritical than someone telling you, you shouldn't get divorced and then they get divorced, not once, but twice.I mean, that's the definition of hypocritical and it extends De'Vannon: beyond that because he didn't get removed from that position. I mean, us, both of those wives cheated on him and he had the lawful way out, but yet they're removing people for being two years over the age limit. You know, in, in the singles John: group?Well, I wasn't removed just to be clear the van and I wasn't removed from church. I just got a letter saying, please don't come to this group anymore. De'Vannon: all right. That makes it so much more palatable. John: I wanna be clear. I don't wanna, I don't wanna unfairly you know, trust the church. I still have the letter by the way.So, De'Vannon: but people I've talked. I talked to [01:03:00] someone before who got divorced and they removed him from his volunteer positions in church. So it's very interesting, you know, but you know, those, those double standards get applied everywhere you go. When I was in the middle was the same way. Somebody who was like to say is their first year in the air force.If they got a DUI, they get kicked out. If they were got, if they were caught drinking underage. But if they, someone who had been in there 20 years did the same thing. They wouldn't be treated as harshly, you know, The standards, they just don't seem to apply when you get higher up in organizations. Mm-hmm so the last thing I wanna talk about before we wrap this up is a little bit about Catholicism.I love to throw, throw shade at the Catholic church because I don't, I, I really, I have, I have no disrespect for Catholic people. I just think that is one huge mind. Fuck. And I cannot understand [01:04:00] where they come up with all of these damn rules and shit that have nothing to do with the Bible. And I guess the popes made it up or someone who's supposed to be holy made it up.And then therefore it is believed by people, but the, the billions of people who make up the Catholic church and give the church it's power and things like that. And I just don't see what they're getting. In return. The Bible tells us not to pray to angels and to anyone, but God, and they're praying all these saints, there's all these dead people.There's all these robes and all this kneeling. When I, when I went one time and I was like, am I sucking Dick in the sanctuary today? Or what is going on? Why am on, on my knee? well, of my needs were half the John: service. Well, hopefully you weren't doing that in church, Savannah. It De'Vannon: would've made it worth it . If, if, if, while I was down there, one time someone had stuck something in my mouth.So I'm gonna quote you again. You had some interesting one [01:05:00] liners, John: if you have, well, there might have been a few priests that would be happy De'Vannon: to accommodate you. I think I would've been too old for them at the right age. I think I might have been in my twenties and you know, and then the right age of 21, you know, they seem much too old for them.And so, you know, you never know. So you sad in here. I don't know if you have any books, man, but if not, I think you should write one. Cause you have some interesting one-liners in their, in this film. So referring to Catholic sex, sex education, you said to get a basic sex education, you need to be taught by people who had sex, who actually had sex, who actually had sex.So you were talking about getting sex education from like these crazy ass looking nuns and stuff like that. So just tell us, as we begin to wrap up about your Catholic experience and what you think of the Catholic church. John: So in the film I talk about going to parochial school, junior high school which was [01:06:00]13, 14, 15 years old.And one of the required courses was weekly courses was a course in religion and they kind of cross pollinated religion and sex education with, I guess, you know, they could only hire so many teachers and I guess they couldn't have a dedicated teacher teaching sex education and a Catholic school.So the, the teacher was teaching religion integrated some what, what they considered sex education. I would say sex lack of education would be a better way to phrase it. And one of the things they I was told at the age of 13 was that I'm, I'm trying to remember cuz it was quite a while ago, but the clear message I got was that you really should not be having sexual thoughts in your head.And if you do or do it too much, or don't turn your brain off immediately, once that sex sexual [01:07:00] thought pops in your head, if you don't immediately shut that down, you're walking on thin, thin ice with Jesus and, and you, you don't wanna, you don't wanna sin in against Jesus now, do you? So that was kind of the message I got is that it would be a, a sin or could be a sin against Jesus.If you don't shut down really quickly, any sexual thought about you know, my case, naked women or naked girls that, that pop into your head, you, which is a pretty big mind fuck to tell a 13 year old kid. And I have to tell you when you're, whe

Millennials are setting another trend. They've earned a reputation for reshaping industries and institutions — shaking up the workplace, transforming dating culture, and rethinking parenthood. They've also had a dramatic impact on American religious life. Four in ten millennials now say they are religiously unaffiliated, according to the Pew Research Center. In fact, millennials (those between the ages of 23 and 38) are now almost as likely to say they have no religion as they are to identify as Christian. John Follis created an award-winning documentary "Leaving God" (2017) which blends an engaging personal story with the major cultural shift currently happening in America -- the shift away from religion and God. Winner of a Hollywood International Documentary Film award, the film also documents how, before leaving God, John "sold God" via the highly successful and press-worthy ad campaign his New York ad agency created for New York's Marble Collegiate Church. He joined me this week to tell me more. Watch The Film: https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/leaving-god/ LinkedIn: @JohnFollis John Follis, Leaving God, Religion, Society & Culture, Atheism, Humanism, Religion & Spirituality, Beliefs, Documentary, Kevin McShan, Lets Have This Conversation

John's documentary "Leaving God", explores a shift that appears to be happening in America away from God and religion (recent Pew Research reports about 30% of Americans are now religiously unaffiliated). In John's film he explores this trend through the eyes of his own personal journey with God. John grew up Catholic in the 60's, a time when questioning the church was not something you did. Throughout his life he grappled with the question of if God was real, if church was beneficial, and at one point was even an award-winning adman/agency owner who actually helped to sell God. It was really interesting to hear more about John's background and personal story with the church. He explained that he was raised with a relatively strict Catholic upbringing, but from a very early age his curiosity pushed him to question what the church was actually saying and why. It might be easy, given the title of his documentary, to assume that John has some personal grudge against God/religion and is just trying to convince people to see things his way. However, from the conversation and his film you will see it is much more complex than that. John appreciates how significant God is in so many people's lives, so he wanted to share his experience to others can make a more informed decision.  As I often do, I played "devil's advocate" (no pun intended) and we actually spent a bit of time exploring if the religious believers are really that different from John and others that choose science or a more secular approach to life. We questioned if "curiosity", the value that seemed very important to John (and myself), was being applied consistently in our assessment of religion and science. We also explored the the "morality" of advertising, trying to understand if there is something inherently bad whenever we try and convince/influence someone to believe something. John and I didn't always agree, as you will hear in the episode, but it is always super insightful to debate topics like this with someone willing to explore their view points at a deeper level.  Here is the link to his documentary if you want to check it out- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5x1X4eBBB4&list=PLLrP-KpjctO0J7yly7yqsKYs-CRAwcx9M

Why not add more Johns to the mix? John Follis comes by to discuss his experience in marketing, including a wildly successful ad campaign for a church back in the 90s. The parallels between MLMs, churches, cult leaders, and pastors are all explored in depth. If you'd like to watch John's award winning documentary click here, https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/leaving-god/ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/thecultofchristianity/message

Interview with producer John Follis. His movie "Leaving God" explores his loss of faith and leaving religion. The movie also discusses why so many others are also leaving.Investing Skeptically: Total Bond Fund, REIT Funds, Economic data.Watch the movie here. https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/leaving-god