American televangelist and author
POPULARITY
5 episodes with joel olsteen
6 episodes with joel olsteen
6 episodes with joel olsteen
3 episodes with joel olsteen
2 episodes with joel olsteen
2 episodes with joel olsteen
4 episodes with joel olsteen
2 episodes with joel olsteen
2 episodes with joel olsteen
The Apologist: Christians And Self-Defense Story 1#: Joel Olsteen's Church Shooting • WATCH: Barrage of gunfire as officers... Thoughts and Takeaways Segment 2#: West Freeway Church Shooting • Texan NRA Member Who Stopped Church S... Thoughts and Takeaways Segment 3#: Raul Mendez Shooting • He Stopped a Mass Shooting But The Me... Segment 4#: What Are Some Common Misconceptions on Christianity and Self-Defense? Jesus Called Us To Turn The Other Cheek The 6th Commandment is Thou Shalt Not Kill It is for the Governmental Authorities to use lethal force Verses on self defense: 1. Exodus 22:2-3 “If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is struck and killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty of murder. But if it happens in daylight, the one who killed the thief is guilty of murder.” 2. Luke 11:21 “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own mansion, his property is safe.” 3. Isaiah 49:25 “Who can snatch the plunder of war from the hands of a warrior? Who can demand that a tyrant let his captives go?” 4. Luke 22:35-37 “Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out to preach the Good News and you did not have money, a traveler's bag, or an extra pair of sandals, did you need anything?” “No,” they replied. “But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler's bag. And if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one! For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels. Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.” 5. Luke 22:38-39 “Look, Lord,” they replied, “we have two swords among us.” “That's enough,” he said. Then, accompanied by the disciples, Jesus left the upstairs room and went as usual to the Mount of Olives.” 6. Matthew 5:38-39 “Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.” 7. Romans 12:17 “Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.” 8. 1 Peter 3:9 “Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.” 9. Proverbs 24:29 “Say not, I will do so to him as he hath done to me: I will render to the man according to his work.” 10. Psalm 144:1 “Praise the Lord, who is my rock. He trains my hands for war and gives my fingers skill for battle.” 11. Psalm 18:34 “He trains my hands for battle; he strengthens my arm to draw a bronze bow.” 6. Psalm 82:4 “Rescue weak and needy people. Help them escape the power of wicked people.” 17. Proverbs 24:11 “Rescue captives condemned to death, and spare those staggering toward their slaughter.” 18. 1 Timothy 5:8 “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” 19. Romans 13:1-7 “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except by God's appointment, and the authorities that exist have been instituted by God. So the person who resists such authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will incur judgment (for rulers cause no fear for good conduct but for bad). Do you desire not to fear authority? Do good and you will receive its commendation, for it is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be in fear, for it does not bear the sword in vain. It is God's servant to administer retribution on the wrongdoer. Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath of the authorities but also because of your conscience. For this reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants devoted to governing. Pay everyone what is owed: taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.” 20. Nehemiah 4:16-18 “From that day forward, half of my men were doing the work and half of them were taking up spears, shields, bows, and body armor. Now the officers were behind all the people of Judah who were rebuilding the wall. Those who were carrying loads did so by keeping one hand on the work and the other on their weapon. The builders to a man had their swords strapped to their sides while they were building. But the trumpeter remained with me.” Trust in the Lord and not your weapon. 21. Psalm 44:5-7 “Only by your power can we push back our enemies; only in your name can we trample our foes. I do not trust in my bow; I do not count on my sword to save me. You are the one who gives us victory over our enemies; you disgrace those who hate us.” 22. 1 Samuel 17:47 “And everyone assembled here will know that the LORD rescues his people, but not with sword and spear. This is the LORD's battle, and he will give you to us!” Final Thoughts: One Last Question: Favorite Caliber
This week we are very pleased to welcome back film maker, media consultant, and author Phil Cooke. Phil shared so many great stories like what kind of crazy stunts has he done to get the film shot? or his adventures with John and Joel Olsteen years ago. Not to mention, as a film maker,... The post Episode 224: Phil Cooke appeared first on Kevin + Steph.
There is a growing number of Liberal women who are arguing with themselves and making themselves increasingly miserable. While women like these are paying thousands of dollars to release their rage by beating the ground with sticks in the woods, it turns out you can actually do that for free. We also take a look at prosperity preacher Joel Olsteen's twisting of scripture. But then, we take a look at that Pope as he directly contradicted Jeusus Christ. What does God's Word say? John 16:33 33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”Matthew 6:19-21Treasures in Heaven19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.Jeremiah 17:9 NIVThe heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?Mark 10:18 18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.Episode 1,614 Links:"We are all fundamentally good. Yes, there are some rogues and sinners, but the heart itself is good," says Pope FrancisWhat a sad, miserable human being.Liberal has meltdown over seeing American Flags at the beachLiberal women spend $4,000 to bash sticks on the ground and scream at a ‘Rage Ritual Retreat.' The bizarre wellness retreat is designed to help women deal with anger.We've been told that not wanting to date a trans person is transphobic but did you know that wanting to date a trans person is also transphobic? You can never win because it's all a narcissistic power trip from people who want to be victims.The Senate Chaplain just offered a prayer for the Butcher of Tehran: "Lord, we pray for the Iranian people who mourn the death of their president."Yesterday Joel Osteen preached his 1000th 'sermon'. Here's a bit of what that sounded like and yes, the message was this terrible the whole way through.4Patriots https://4Patriots.com/Todd 3-Month Survival Food kits are back in stock plus get 9 FREE gifts with your order Bioptimizers https://bioptimizers.com/todd Use promo code TODD for 10% off your order. Sharpen your edge and reach your potential with Mushroom Breakthrough by Bioptimizers. Bonefrog https://bonefrogcoffee.com/todd Use code TODD at checkout to receive 10% off your first purchase and 15% on subscriptions. Bulwark Capital Bulwark Capital Management (bulwarkcapitalmgmt.com) Call 866-779-RISK or visit online to get their FREE Common Cents Investing Guide. EdenPURE https://edenpuredeals.com Use code TODD3 to save $200 on the Thunderstorm Air Purifier 3-pack. GreenHaven Interactive Digital Marketing https://greenhaveninteractive.com Your Worldclass Website Will Get Found on Google! Native Path Krill https://nativepathkrill.com/todd For a limited time get Native Path Antarctic Krill Oil for as little as $23 per bottle. Renue Healthcare https://renuewellcation.com Register today for your Wellcation with Todd Herman June 7-11, 2024. See site for details
4Patriots https://4Patriots.com/Todd 3-Month Survival Food kits are back in stock plus get 9 FREE gifts with your order Bioptimizers https://bioptimizers.com/todd Use promo code TODD for 10% off your order. Sharpen your edge and reach your potential with Mushroom Breakthrough by Bioptimizers. Bonefrog https://bonefrogcoffee.com/todd Use code TODD at checkout to receive 10% off your first purchase and 15% on subscriptions. Bulwark Capital Bulwark Capital Management (bulwarkcapitalmgmt.com) Call 866-779-RISK or visit online to get their FREE Common Cents Investing Guide. EdenPURE https://edenpuredeals.com Use code TODD3 to save $200 on the Thunderstorm Air Purifier 3-pack. GreenHaven Interactive Digital Marketing https://greenhaveninteractive.com Your Worldclass Website Will Get Found on Google! Native Path Krill https://nativepathkrill.com/todd For a limited time get Native Path Antarctic Krill Oil for as little as $23 per bottle. Renue Healthcare https://renuewellcation.com Register today for your Wellcation with Todd Herman June 7-11, 2024. See site for details
Interview with Kelley Laughlin. He is a host on Truth Wanted and The Non-Profits. We talk about rock solid facts, crystals, big foot and much more.Investing Skeptically:Church Money with Joel OlsteenPrivate REITsTesla & ElonThe FED and Interest rates
In this episode we will look at one of English literature's greatest names, the Romantic Poet, Lord Byron. It is claimed outside of the U.K. he is the second most read British author behind Shakespeare.We first mentioned Byron in our second episode, Science Fiction Satan, where we quoted contemporary poet Robert Southey who dubbed Byron and his good friend Percy Shelley as ‘The Satanic School'. Southey claimed their work was, ‘characterised by a Satanic spirit of pride and audacious impiety.'Add to Southey's glowing endorsement, there is of course the more famous quote about Byron from Lady Caroline Lamb who called him, ‘Mad, bad and dangerous to know.'Then there's his work, poems and plays about the apocalypse, angels of death, vampires, defying the gods, a tribute to Dante's inferno, Lucifer and St Peter litigating over a King of England at the very gates of Heaven, an ode to Napoleon, likening him to our favourite disrupter, the witch of Endor from first Samuel, the devil's drive or the story of Cain told from the point of view of murderous Cain himself.After all of that, how could I resist doing an episode about this man? There are cameo guest appearances by The Young and the Restless, Forrest Gump, Joel Olsteen, Alexander the Great, William the Conqueror, John ‘Foul Weather Jack' Byron, Don Juan, Johnny Depp, Amber Heard, John ‘Captain Mad Jack' Byron, Marchioness of Carmarthen, Amelia Osborne, Catherine Gordon, George Gordon Byron, William Chaworth, Harrow Vs Eton Cricket match, Trinity College at Cambridge, William Fletcher, Hellespont, Greece, Dardanelles, Swimming World Magazine, Childe Harold's Pilgrimage, Clara Claremont, Mary Shelley, Percy Shelley, Switzerland, Frankenstein or The Modern Prometheus, Elvis, John Polidore, The Vampire, Bram Stoker, Dracula, John Milton, Darth Vader, Wolverine, The Phantom of the Opera, Venice, Ottomans, Thomas Moore, #SketchComedy #Sketch #Comedy #Sketch Comedy #Atheist #Science #History #Atheism #ConspiracyTheory #Sceptical #Scepticism #Mythology #Religion #Devil #Satan #Skeptic #Debunk #poetry
Nikki Haley is ramping up attacks on Former President Donald Trump with South Carolina's Republican primary coming up, as Trump's legal issues dominate on the trail. Plus, tensions between the United States and Russia are high as the White House weighs in on the death of Alexei Navalny. Also, Joel Olsteen speaks out at the first church service held since the mass shooting at his church last week. And, Colorado police are searching for answers after two people were shot and killed in the dorms at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs.
John today discusses the Senate approving aid for Ukraine and the House impeaching Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas. He also speaks with Professor Corey Brettschneider, the Rude Pundit AKA comedian Lee Papa and TX Rep. Carl O. Sherman (D-TX109) about the shooting at Joel Olsteen's Megachurch.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
With RNC chairwoman Ronna McDaniel on her way out, we talk to the investigative journalist who sowed the seeds of Ronna's destruction with her brilliant exposés on just how corrupt the organization has become. Plus, CNN runs cover for Egyptian migrant rape gangs in Italy as a woman, who sometimes used a male name, attempted to go on a shooting rampage at celebrity pastor Joel Olsteen's church in Texas with a gun bearing the message of 'Palestine.' And finally, Biden points the finger at anyone but himself during his shrinkflation Super Bowl message.Guests:Jennifer Van Laar | Managing Editor, RedStateMike Puglise | Former Law Enforcement Officer & Founder, Puglise Law FirmChristopher Tremoglie | Journalist, Washington ExaminerJames Czerniawski | Senior Policy Analyst in Technology & Innovation, Americans for Prosperity
What is your vision? Do you see the glass half empty or half full? Fumi shares what she has journaled this week. The vision you imagine for your life is what your life is going to be/follow. You cannot be what /who you have not seen or imagined. Paraphrased from The book Your Best Life Now by Joel Olsteen. Tune in to find the secret to asking yourself the right questions like from the quote from the book " Steal Like an Artist" by Austin Kleon and looking at life from a God-kind viewpoint. How did David go from God let me build a house for you to God saying Let me build your house instead? 1 Chronicles 17:27. It is a short but loaded episode with action steps to encourage you, encourage yourself . Pull out your journal or your phone and finish this sentence The Best Thing That Happened Today was ........Welcome to the lounge. The place where we hang out and laugh about what we will otherwise cry about if not discussed. An open space for men and women to talk about daily struggles, find inspiration, and learn from each other. Follow us on Instagram:@sistas_letstalk Facebook:@sistasletstalk Check us out on our website: www.SLTpodcast.com. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sistasletstalk/message
Is it easier to encourage yourself or encourage others? Do you see the glass half empty or half full? Fumi shares what she learned today that would be a well of blessing to your week. The vision you imagine for your life is what your life is going to be/follow. You cannot be what /who you have not seen or imagined. Paraphrased from The book Your Best Life Now by Joel Olsteen. Tune in to find the secret to asking yourself the right questions like from the quote from the book " Steal Like an Artist" by Austin Kleon and looking at life from a God-kind viewpoint. How did David go from God let me build a house for you to God saying Let me build your house instead? 1 Chronicles 17:27. It is a short but loaded episode with action steps to encourage you, encourage yourself . Pull out your journal or your phone and finish this sentence The Best Thing That Happened Today was ........Welcome to the lounge. The place where we hang out and laugh about what we will otherwise cry about if not discussed. An open space for men and women to talk about daily struggles, find inspiration, and learn from each other. Follow us on Instagram:@sistas_letstalk Facebook:@sistasletstalk Check us out on our website: www.SLTpodcast.com. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sistasletstalk/message
Send us a Text Message.Natalie started her day with a positive message from Joel Olsteen. She learned about the importance of speaking good things over yourself and how it can affect your future. She decided to speak all good things into the world and had a positive day.She listed several things that brought her joy and happiness, including spending time with her partner Jason. They finished day 14 of 15 radiation treatments, and Jason will soon complete his chemotherapy treatment. They are both excited and grateful for the progress they have made.Natalie also reflected on the importance of being kind to oneself and not being too hard on oneself. She reminded her readers to wake up in the morning and let their best for the day be their best, no matter how small it may seem. She encouraged them to speak kindly and positively to themselves because they were worth it.Support the Show.Confessions of a Reluctant Caregiver Sisterhood of Care, LLC Website: www.confessionsofareluctantcaregiver.com Like us on Facebook! Tweet with us on Twitter! Follow us on Instagram! Watch us on Youtube! Pin us on Pinterest! Link us on LinkedIn!Tune in on Whole Care Network
Aloha friends and welcome to EPISODE 117 of the Conrad Podcast, where I interviewed Michele Bolona (Instagram) (TikTok) about her journey of first understanding and then teaching others about Nervous System Regulation.Here is the link to Michele's website: Michele Bolona WebsiteDuring this episode we dig into: Vanilla Sky, Tom Cruise, Projection Relationships, Lucid Dream, Nature of Reality, Political Parties, Making Love to Life, Gurus, False Idols, Joel Olsteen, Sadhguru, Tennessee, Polyamorous, Social Media Spirituality, Netflix Survival Show, Entertainment Conditioning, Physical Fitness, Nervous System Regulation, Tension, Fascia, Gut Health, Dopamine Diets, Leaving Vegan, Grocery Stores, Food Pyramids, Winning Lockdown, Refusing the Shot, Vagus Nerve, Anxiety, Panic Attacks, Power of Breath, Chakras, Traumas, Yin Yoga, ETF Tapping and so much MORE.Personal Links @conradg315 (Twitter)I AM Conrad (Youtube)@conradg315 (Instagram)@powerofnow888 (Instagram)Interactive EpisodeLucid Sacred DreamsEMAIL: ConradPodcast@gmail.comAlso, here are links to some recent interviews where I was the guest on other podcasts:Pineal Podcast InterviewYoutube Interview with Homewrecker PodcastIntro/Outro music is a lifetime licensed product for the Conrad Podcast from soundstripe.com and is called “Prepare Yourself” by Moments.
Welcome to the latest segment of the Let's be friends Podcast! The Symbolism Syndrome Radio Dispatch.This Symbolism Syndrome Radio Dispatch is an in-depth discussion of posts and content from the Symbolism Syndrome Instagram page. The dispatch will be released 2-3 times each month, or as frequently as news hits the floor of the cultural game. This episode is available with the Friendship Membership in either audio only, or following along with me via a video recording where I visually move through the photos and content directly from the Instagram page. Get access to the Symbolism Syndrome Radio Dispatch by signing up at www.letsbefriendspodcast.comIn this pilot episode I start chronologically discussing the first 24 posts on the page:Episode 1: Meaning of Alice and Wonderland Programming / Wizard of OzWho is “philanthropist” & “artist” spirit cooker Marina Abramovic?Is Kris Kardashian Kanye and Travis Scott's Handler? How did Kim Kardashian “break the internet”?What is the Kardashian Curse?Who is Khloe Kardashians Dad?Breaking down Lady Gaga symbolismThe meaning of Sanpaku eyesWhat was really the reason for Megan and Harry's riveting interview with Oprah?What is a reptilian, and are the royals shapeshifters?How does the royal family connect to Rosemary's baby?What happened to Princess Diana?Breaking down the symbolism of GrimesWho is Elon Musk?Meaning of phones and other MKUltra symbolism Breaking down the methods of mind programming in the movie ZoolanderIs it… Joel Osteen, or Joel Olsteen?What really went on at the Playboy Mansion?What happened in 1947?Remember the slap “heard round the world?”Symbolism breakdown of one eyeSymbolism breakdown of sticking your tongue out
Welcome to the latest segment of the Let's be friends Podcast! The Symbolism Syndrome Radio Dispatch.This Symbolism Syndrome Radio Dispatch is an in-depth discussion of posts and content from the Symbolism Syndrome Instagram page. The dispatch will be released 2-3 times each month, or as frequently as news hits the floor of the cultural game. This episode is available with the Friendship Membership in either audio only, or following along with me via a video recording where I visually move through the photos and content directly from the Instagram page. Get access to the Symbolism Syndrome Radio Dispatch by signing up at www.letsbefriendspodcast.comIn this pilot episode I start chronologically discussing the first 24 posts on the page:Episode 1: Meaning of Alice and Wonderland Programming / Wizard of OzWho is “philanthropist” & “artist” spirit cooker Marina Abramovic?Is Kris Kardashian Kanye and Travis Scott's Handler? How did Kim Kardashian “break the internet”?What is the Kardashian Curse?Who is Khloe Kardashians Dad?Breaking down Lady Gaga symbolismThe meaning of Sanpaku eyesWhat was really the reason for Megan and Harry's riveting interview with Oprah?What is a reptilian, and are the royals shapeshifters?How does the royal family connect to Rosemary's baby?What happened to Princess Diana?Breaking down the symbolism of GrimesWho is Elon Musk?Meaning of phones and other MKUltra symbolism Breaking down the methods of mind programming in the movie ZoolanderIs it… Joel Osteen, or Joel Olsteen?What really went on at the Playboy Mansion?What happened in 1947?Remember the slap “heard round the world?”Symbolism breakdown of one eyeSymbolism breakdown of sticking your tongue out
Just twenty-two percent of the youngest adults describe themselves as Protestant – a more than fifty percent decline from the 1950s and 60s. A cataclysmic decline if things do not change. Gen Z is the most likely generation yet to say they don't believe in God. They are also the least religiously affiliated and the least likely to attend church.Meantime, their rates of depression and anxiety are soaring. The Centers for Disease Control recently published a report stating that “almost 60% of female students experienced persistent feelings of sadness or hopelessness during the past year, and nearly 25% made a suicide plan.”This is a stunning collapse. Any way a Christian may slice it, the current theology and institution are not working. Period. In this episode, we contrast maybe the most corrosive element of Christianity—prosperity gospel preachers against some very stoic and hardcore followers of Christian theology often referred to as the desert fathers and mothers. What a stark contrast and the disparity shines a bright light on the differences between a postmodern world of ease versus a life of pain, suffering, and ultimately one of deep fulfillment outside the umbrella of materialism. In this podcast, we primarily focus on St. Anthony, an incredible individual who shunned all material and personal wealth and fame for a life in the deep, mystical desert, hoping to live out his best life as close to the teachings of Christ as possible. Whether you are a Christian, Jew, or of any faith, the hard-fought lessons learned by the desert fathers and mothers illuminate shortcomings in our lives that we can work on to become a better version of ourselves. Join the conversation & get more free resources by subscribing to the podcast substack newsletter! https://intellectualfreedom.substack.com/ Follow Dr. Hopkins on Twitter: https://twitter.com/DavidDHopkins
Some of these Christians man... We go from Joel Olsteen to Karl MAlone.
Introduction to God burns bridges and Him severing people and things from us.God reveals His ways only to a select group of people.How to become one of the select and one who learns the ways of God.Why God burning bridges is a part of His process for you and biblical examples of God burning bridges.The Mysteries of GodWhy you should never think you know all that you need to know about God and your relationship with Him.Links to SocialsYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/@LiberationLiveInstagram: @liberation_liveTikTok: @liberationliveFacebook: facebook.com/LiberationLivePodcast: (direct link) knowgodforreal.simplecast.com, or Listen On Apple, Spotify, and everywhere podcasts are heard.
I know I might sound a bit rusty but be patient with me, I've been extremely busy focusing on my books, my boardgame, being in Arizona & taking care of family. Thanks so much if you've made it this far, I'll send you a free copy of “HAHA” for free. Just ask on instagram @ilmaoKJ --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/iq-knowledge-junkie/support
Abundant Life Episode 44 In this episode Saso and Ben discuss how Christians can be content with God, because God is enough. Enough - That satisfies desire, or gives content; that may answer the purpose; that is adequate to the wants. - Websters 1828 Key Verse Philippians 4:19 This is such a powerful truth, God is more than enough, because if it is true, which it is, it means we that we should be trusting God to meet our every need. Yet, we have this nasty sin called unbelief that leads us down a dark path into further sin. We are living in a time where many so called believers are bible illiterate. The reality is that many Christians don't know the truths and promises of God found in scripture and therefore they fall victim to unbelief. They simply don't believe God is enough. Rather we are bombarded by ads that tell us we deserve more, we are plagued with instant gratifications that social media brings, we place our hopes in an elected official, we commit sin and feed our flesh because we simply don't believe that God is more than enough. It's interesting that the scripture deals with this idea of unbelief and in fact we did an episode on the topic of unbelief, episode 17 to be specific. Unbelief is like a cancer for unbelievers as the scriptures tell us that Satan blinds them from seeing the light of the gospel. 2 Corinthians 4:4 This speaks of unbelievers, but Satan does this same thing to believers to keep them as if they were still in bondage. It's like the Andy Griffith show where Otis grabs the jail cell key hanging from the wall and lets himself out of jail. Christians have been forgiven and have been freed from the bondage of sin, yet we live like as if we were still in bondage. Christian, do you deal with unbelief? Do you believe that God is more than enough? Or are you discontent? Do you lust for more? Are you intrigued by the world? Throughout the Bible we see this theme of unbelief and it all started in the garden of eden. Adam and Eve chose to believe the lie of Satan that God wasn't enough, they wanted more, they wanted to be like God. And in single act of sin, Adam brought down the human race into sin. Genesis 3:1-7 Lucifer was cast out of heaven with one third of the angels as he lusted to be greater than God. Just like Adam and Eve, we are ruined by our own hearts as we lust for more because both discontentment and covetousness are both rooted in unbelief. The apostle John warned us about this. He told us not to lust for the shiny things of this world, but instead trust and obey God. 1 John 2:15-17 The problem Our problem is that we get our eyes off of God and we then put our focus on ourselves. We look at ourselves, our circumstances, our failures, our sin, our short comings. We compare ourselves to others. We are by nature selfish and we love to think about ourself and how we can live our best life now. Joel Olsteen's book, Your Best Life Now is a lie, your best life is only for believers and will come when you are in glory with our savior Jesus. We complain and grumble and we believe the lie that God is not enough or that God is not in control, or that God doesn't love me, or that God doesn't bless me. It's this unbelief that drives us to a place of discontentment. Once we reach that point we start looking for fleshly things that will satisfy us. We then simply seek to feed our flesh and please ourselves which is always through some sort of sin. Not everyone sins the same, not everyone is tempted by the same sin, but we all have fleshly desires and our bent and bondage toward sin can only be broken by Jesus. The problem with that is that the flesh can't be satisfied with things of the world. God is the only one that can satisfy our souls. He is the one that gives peace to our souls. He is the one that gives us joy. He gives us comfort. He gives us the power to say no to sin. He is the one that truly gives us contentment and satisfaction.
In this weeks podcast we talk about the ugly truth about the Church that is behind all of the recent scandals, allegations, and mistakes many have been hearing about or maybe even experienced. If you are someone who has been negatively impacted by these things or are struggling with Church hurt check out our previous video on it here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dno0a7LREno&t=18sWelcome to the Theological Mutts Podcast! In each episode, Jason & Riley McCollister of Tribal Studios host honest discussions about developing a deeper relationship with Christ and His Church. This show is all about the journey of finding a more meaningful faith with God, breaking down denominational walls and building unity in the body of Christ! Whether you're new to the whole Jesus thing or a seasoned believer, this podcast will have something for you!❌ Check THIS Out: https://www.thetribalstudios.com/theological-mutts-podcast▶️ Subscribe https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9l-NFpwA2L_Yu9GEbihGDQ
In this week's episode, we continue to discuss the theology of the Prosperity Gospel. We play a clip from a Joel Olsteen sermon to help the listener understand how these ideas are also taught outside the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Gerrit shares several heartbreaking experiences from early Saints (Wilford Woodruff and Stillman Pond) who experience struggle after struggle and trial after trial despite being incredibly faithful and obedient. Gerrit ends with a quote from Joseph Smith where he talks about how, in the end, God will make up for all of our losses. Please visit our website at www.standardoftruth.com If you have any questions or possible topics of discussion for upcoming podcasts, please email us at: questions@standardoftruthpodcast.com
American Pastor and American Icon Joel Olsteen makes his debut on Bernie and Sid in the Morning to talk about his rise to prominence, humble upbringings, and his big event in Yankee Stadium. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
The third highest votes of the topics our church was interested in hearing about was False Teachers. So what does the Bible say about false teachers? What are there so many warnings about this? The big deal, why it's so important, is that teachers and prophets are speaking on behalf of God. They are presenting truth, therefore the spiritual health and wellbeing of our church depends on the veracity of the teacher. He must teach the truth!
INTRODUCTION: Barry Bowen is the Staff Investigator at Trinity Foundation, a nonprofit organization that investigates religious fraud, theft and excess. From 2005 to 2010 Bowen served as one of the third-party whistleblowers assisting the U.S. Senate in its investigation of six TV ministries. INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to): · A Look Into The Latest Lakewood Church Protest· My Ire Against The Church For It's Apathy· When Does Life Begin? Is It Any Of Our Damn Business?· How Churches Resemble Organized Crime· How Witchcraft Can Be Used To Grow A Church· When Do Preacher's Become Corrupt?· Addiction To Power· Informants Actually Can Be Useful (Never Thought I'd Say That)· Preachers + Fantasy + Roleplay · Lack Of Accountability For Preachers· More Money Is Embezzled By Religious Leaders Than What Is Spent On World Missions – Est. $60 Billion CONNECT WITH BARRY: Website: https://trinityfi.orgTwitter: https://twitter.com/barrybowen CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixPinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/_saved/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonEmail: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: · Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs · Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)o https://press.discoveryplus.com/lifestyle/discovery-announces-key-participants-featured-in-upcoming-expose-of-the-hillsong-church-controversy-hillsong-a-megachurch-exposed/ · Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levino https://leavinghillsong.podbean.com · Upwork: https://www.upwork.com· FreeUp: https://freeup.net VETERAN'S SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS · Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org· American Legion: https://www.legion.org INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: · PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon TRANSCRIPT: [00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: Hello? Hello. Hello everyone. Our favorite staff investigator from the Trinity foundation over there in Texas is back today for part two of our T spieling series on these churches. Y'all his name is Barry Bowen. And this episode, we're going to get deeper into the scandalous nature of some of the world's most well known preachers and churches. Y'all. So in this episode here, we're going to take a look into the latest Lakewood church protocol. I'm going to talk about my I, or that I [00:01:00] hold against the territory's apathy. I'm going to talk about how criminal informants can actually be useful in investigating churches. I'm also going to tell you how witchcraft can be used to grow a church. And then Barry's going to break down for us to have more money is actually embezzled by religious leaders each year than what it's spent on world missions, which is estimated to be something around $60 billion. Yes, bitch, 60 billion.Take a list and please.Welcome everyone to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. This is my second interview with. World renowned. And in some circles, infamous, especially if you lead a mega church Barry Bowen, he is the staff private investigator, the Trinity foundation, which is an organization that exists to eke out all the dirt that churches do both small and great, and to help bring to light the [00:02:00] truth so that you can make a more informed decision about the people who you choose to follow.Barry, how are you doing today? Barry: I am doing well. And I've got an alarm going off. I have to turn off De'Vannon: done. I can't be near it. Oh no, there we go.Hey, at least I know that you, weren't going to forget this meeting one way or the other. You have the alarm set and everything. I appreciate that. So on our last. At our last interview, we talked about Hillsong church and we got into like an overview of the church corruption. We talked about how you got into being a staff investigator and everything like that.And the passions that drive you. And we talked a little bit about Joel Olsteen, Lakewood church. Everyone knows my history there of serving fiercely in the volunteer ministry. They are applying for a job only to be discarded from the ministry for not being straight up. They found out on my MySpace page, where [00:03:00] I had on my scaffolding clad outfit, which was nothing but underwear.And I was talking about them on my space page, how I hang on in Montrose and just the gay district and Houston and how I wasn't straight. And then they said it was such a scandal and they fired me from volunteering and it was, I was all heartbroken and everything for years. And now here I am to clap back at Lakewood church.And so many other churches and by providing knowledge and information, so we're going to get right into this again. And now the website, I want to tell everyone is Trinity F I that org, I believe that stands for Trinity foundation international, that it incorporate it. You know? So Trinity FII that org, if you want to research more about Barry, he has an amazing blog on there where he really gets very granular, like a good investigator would.And he gives you some gross detail about the things that he's discovered [00:04:00] about these churches over the years. So since we're talking about Lakewood church, and since this just happened, I want to just get right into it. So these girls decided to show up. And show out in the middle of the service. Other than the video, I saw Sheldon actually down in the front theater seating you know, a few rows back from the pool pit from a podium.And then I also saw them on like their microphones or megaphones or whatever outside doing a protest at Lakewood church. This is, these are people who are pro abortion girls who were pro abortion. My body, my choice is what they were saying. What is your take on this? Barry: Well they opened up themselves to litigation and possible prison time.There's a federal law that makes it illegal to to trespass inside churches. This goes back to the 1980s, early nineties. There [00:05:00] was a group of pro-life protesters affiliated with an organization called operation rescue. They did massive sit, sit ins. Thousands of people were arrested in these.And I'm on the other side there's act, act up was the aids coalition to unleash power. They were advocating for more money for aids research. They were holding protests and they actually entered churches. And because of that when bill Clinton became president Congress passed face that's an acronym, it stands for freedom of access to clinic entrances act.Basically it made it a federal offense to do a sit in an abortion clinic or in our church and do the same thing. So I don't know if the da and Houston and Harris [00:06:00] county will press charges or how they'll go about doing that. But It could be in trouble for doing that. I don't know of Lakewood pouring lots of money into pro-life organizations.Joel Osteen for the most part tries to avoid topics like sin and politics. I mean, it does, that does happen. He does get interviewed and then it looks like I'm a deer caught in headlights. I didn't want that question to be asked, but he likes to talk about the joy of the Lord all the time, but that doesn't prepare people for human suffering and other topics.There's not a random out Joel Osteen. So the De'Vannon: girl who did the the protest, her, her whole point was like this. She was like, you know, you want to stop me from getting an abortion and keep me from getting [00:07:00] critical health care and interrupt my life. So I'm going to show up here and interrupt your life.That's that's what she was saying is the why they presented themselves in the middle of the sanctuary, you know, in the middle of the service, he was like, you fucked up my shit and my fucked up. Yo shit. Barry: So, so the background is the state of Texas. The state legislature is passed some pro-life legislation and then attempt to criminalize most abortions.So that's part of the background that we didn't really mention earlier. I, there court challenges, I don't know how it's all going to turn out.De'Vannon: On the one hand, you know, I mean, I don't, you know, I, I agree with you, Joe, really. Doesn't like to get his hands too dirty, you know, he answers with those non-answers, you know, after you asked after a reporter, [00:08:00] asked him a question after he answers it, usually I'm like, okay, I don't know what the fuck you just said.You know, he's very like very like a politician. He doesn't really answer the fucking question. I think he, I don't really know what he said. I read an article that said he's made his stance clear on abortion rights, which I don't think he's the sort of person who's going to like be on the side of the woman.So I don't know. I'm all for like the protesting outside the building, you know, interrupting the, interrupting the service to do it. I get her anger and everyone was online was like, yeah, you go bitch. You do that shit. You know, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck Lakewood. Fuck Joe. And I just want people to be careful that you're not getting into a realm of catering to anger and negative energy as we come back, what churches and politicians are trying to do, but I get where she's [00:09:00] coming from.She's like, I don't know what else to do. I'm not being heard. So I'm going to show up here and make this whole big scene. And at least I'll get someone's damn attention, you know, this way. And it's unfortunate that women have been put in this position where they feel like they have to do this. And it's unfortunate that religion is so tied with politics.You know, laws are being made to effectively make someone obey God and not sin in. And my problem, I, my, I R I have towards churches is that they're not vocal about this churches, in my opinion, should be, should be combating politicians and telling him to leave religion alone. You know, they should be at the very least saying, you know, let God deal with people, but it's not for us to try to force righteousness upon people, whether you agree with abortion or not.You know, I believe churches should open their fucking mouth for more than asking for money and just rosy stories. Barry: Not him. TOF was a very prominent atheist was a [00:10:00] columnist I believe wrote from the village voice publication. That was an alternative newspaper and the New York city. And he was a pariah to the to the left because.He was an atheist that opposed abortion. So what happens is a lot of people don't know this, there are some atheists that also opposed abortion. So it's not just a religious issue and for some people I mean, so when does life begin? That is an interesting question for me. And so when you look, when science looks at it, if they were to find a one cell organism on, on Mars, that'd be rejoice and we found life on another planet. And then they'll say, well, this inside a womb is is parasitic or it's it's a clump of cells.It's not a life. I mean, I think there's a lot of [00:11:00] disingenuousness I understand the argument about bodily autonomy. In the case of Texas this, the state legislature passed legislation that would have had a criminal I'm sorry sanctions against the woman that had abortion, so punishment for the woman.So that really upset a lot of people on the that are pro choice. De'Vannon: I, the way this whole argument comes down to people being nosy and not minding their own damn business. And whether life starts here, there are tether in the wound. Once the kids are born or somewhere, you know, the Lord hasn't spoken that and you know why the Lord hasn't spoken it because it's none of our fucking business.And if he wanted us to know that, that he would have said so, so everybody could have their own hypothesis, but at the end of the day, [00:12:00] I agree with the woman. It's her body. It's her fucking choice. You cannot make, you can't help her have the baby. You can't help her. You know, you, you're not there for any of it.And so, and by you, I mean, whoever the fuck it is, he wants to dominate. It seems to me, people get caught up in their feelings about certain things. When people get very emotional over children, you know, and stuff like that. But, you know, I'm gonna warn people about the nature of hypocrisy and the trick of the devil, which is to get you to focus.On things that you find to be fault in other people you're not focusing enough on yourself and what you can do to fix yourself. So are you worried about the gaze and wanting to get married and a woman who wants to get an abortion? You got your own things that you ought to be dealing with, but you only have so much time in one lifetime.And if you're going to invest heavy amounts of time into critiquing other people, then you're not going to properly assess yourself to get yourself ready to stand before God. So I counsel and warn people to leave people [00:13:00] alone. Barry: Well, and again, this is one of those difficult situations because of some of the court precedents.For example, there are men that have attacked pregnant women. Ex-boyfriends that don't want them to have a child. Things like this have happened. Women have been brutalized and then miscarried right after. And then it's been taken to court. Did they kill a child? And then imagine a jury ruling that this was murder and then, oh, but guess what a woman decides to have an abortion.It's not, so, I mean, you've got a conflicts in the legal system. It really is. Challenging. How do you be consistent? De'Vannon: Well, all I know is this, [00:14:00] I got to stand before the judgment seat myself in it, and I don't feel like I have the luxury to spend time critiquing other people. I just don't, Barry: you know, Bible says the way that we judge others is how we ourselves will be judged.So I, I want to err on the side of showing compassion. So I support Organizations that make that provides support for women going through an unwanted pregnancy. I mean, there are a variety of things that churches can do. They can provide baby formula. They can provide the services, things that women need that are going through that have a child they're, they're struggling financially.Women need a sup often need a support network. They need to help them [00:15:00] people to help them with basic necessities, et cetera. And so there's so much the church can do besides politics.De'Vannon: Yeah. But however, they have become like corrupt and stuff like that. I wish the churches were more practical and actually did useful stuff. You know, like what you were saying earlier, you know, with the way way Joe preaches and you know, like he has such a positive message, but what he says is it really useful if you are going through like a serious problem, you know, maybe that's his message and that's the way he's supposed to preach.And I mean, I mean, God bless you. If you live such a life, you know, such a life where a nice rosy flowery message, like that is all you need, you know, but those of us who have been through like serious problems, but who are going through serious problems, we need a meatier, a stronger word than that. And so, but you know, but you know, but good on you.If you, if [00:16:00] you haven't had harsh problems in life and that's all you need, you know, it's a brand, it's a market. Maybe that's all that they're designed to do. But I still wish the church would actively do more because they take such public stances against some much, and yet they don't necessarily do a whole lot.Like when I was a member at Lakewood for all those years and stuff like that, I wouldn't have, like, if I would have needed help to pay a light bill or, or some sort of trouble would have come upon me, I wouldn't have felt like I could have gone there to ask for assistance. I wouldn't have known where to go to ask for assistance, you know, and I just feel like churches should, should do more than give us encouraging messages and shit like that.Barry: I can talk about that. Some, there are some churches will actually have a benevolence fund. So part of the church budget will actually go to helping people in need. And some churches you'll have deacons in the Bible [00:17:00] deacons. They took care of widows. So so often in churches that have deacons, this'll be a role that as wasted upon them.Like the, the church my dad had worked at many years ago, they had a food bank. And so if somebody needed food, they could go to the church and would provide a sack of food are more than that. We would sometimes help pay for somebody's electric bill. They couldn't pay their electric bill, things like that.Generally the church would have a limit to the amount of money that can be spent. And those are safeguards to be in place. So it's not abused. Some churches will work together. A group of churches will give money to the salvation army. And so then the salvation army runs programs for housing and the homeless.There are other and I live in the Dallas area and [00:18:00] there's an interfaith network that runs a large homeless shelter here. I don't know much about Lakewood's Efforts in this area, because number one, I've never seen a budget for them. I don't see where the money goes. And so this is something that I want to see churches being more transparent about is where is the money going?I believe donors should check out organizations and before giving on a regular basis, if it's just a one-time donation of $20, you don't need to check out an organization. But if you're giving hundreds of dollars year after year after year or more, check out the organization to see where the money's going, De'Vannon: they don't like what doesn't publish, like say an annual report.Like I think I saw like maybe Joyce Meyer ministries or someone like that. They make it seem like if you request to see where the money is going, that it's available. Have you ever requested it from Lakewood? Barry: I have not. [00:19:00] I have not. Some churches are a members of the evangelical council for financial accountability, and that is one of their requirements help ever.There's a loophole there. If they believe that you're harassing churches, whatever they don't, you don't have to provide documentation. So I have I know someone that runs the website, check my church. She Sarah, she contacts a bunch of churches and I asked for financial information and a lot of them don't provide it.I mean, it's a problem. De'Vannon: Well, I'm, I'm not surprised, you know, churches just don't. They have all this shit to say there was a time that I had emailed before I learned how to research the Bible for myself. I had emailed a bunch of different churches to ask them like their stance on homosexuality and things like that.Most of them wouldn't reply, you [00:20:00] know, it's, you know, personally and privately to somebody, but they, you know, they have such like a bold message to say about everything from the platform. But I'll say this though. I know Lakewood, at least during my tenure there, they spend a hell of a lot of money on Chick-fil-A.So that must at least be a few million in the budget because I was there at least 10 hours a week and got damn the amount of trays I saw Chick-fil-A plat or swerving by there on the carts was just ridiculous. I didn't know that Chick-fil-A was such an anti LGBTQ organization, you know, at the time, I don't know.They always have been, so that's just one thing I wanted to, to tell you, Barry, they, they do support Chick-fil-A intensive. Barry: A lot of Christians do Chick-Filet they give money to different Christian causes, Christian organizations. They have I believe the foundation or, or their [00:21:00] it's corporate sponsorship that how they fund it, it may come straight from the company, not the foundation.I'm not sure. De'Vannon: Yeah. So for those of you who don't know, Chick-fil-A hobby lobby, you know, they are a staunch supporters of anti LGBTQ plus organization. So we do not support the hobby lobby. We do not support the Chick-Filet, no matter how cute the dam eat more chicken with the misspelled buck and chicken word billboards, the cows, trying to get you to eat all the chicken and shit, you know?Fuck Chick-fil-A. So. At some of your writings, you, you feel like churches are a lot like crime organizations and things like that. What similarities have you found? Barry: In the European union, they have adopted a legal definition of what is organized crime. And they've got like a list of, I think, 16 factors.[00:22:00] And there are, if I recall correctly, there are four mandatory on the list. And then if four of six and then you meet several others, then you automatically are defined as organized crime. So number one, organized crime has to involve more than one person. So if it's just one person operating by themselves, it's not organized crime.And generally they'll have very specialized tasks. By the way, Wikipedia has an article on organized crime. And if you go there, it lists them says they activity must be over a prolonged or indefinite period of time. They use discipline or control. They perpetrate serious offenses, they use violence or intimidation.They operate on the international or transnational level. They engage in money laundering, exert influence on politics, media, [00:23:00] public administration, judiciary, or economy, and they're motivated by profit or power. So those are a really good list. And when I look at some of these televangelist organizations, there's been a lot of, of money laundering.I mean, this is information coming to us from informants I've found number of related organizations of televangelists and the offshore leaks database. There are drug trafficking has actually taken place on at least one televangelists jet that came out and a foyer request that I submitted to the FBI.Because of the details, other details in that report, I'm not at Liberty to say what, who it is. There may be actually [00:24:00] several televangelists that have. Drug traffic. And in fact I suspect more than one the number of crimes they commit. I mean, there's texts of Asian. One of our informants basically described these televangelist jets as laundering tubes.We know that this televangelist have collected money in other countries and not declared it when they came into the United States. So if you carry money across international borders, are you leave them on the U S with cash? If it's over a certain amount of money, you have to declare it to do not do so you can get in trouble for that.When you deposit money in a bank. If you deposit say $9,900 in one bank, then go to another bank [00:25:00] on the same day and deposit $2,000. You've committed a crime. This is called structuring. The federal government prohibits people from trying to evade this reporting requirement. So anytime over $10,000 is on deposit into a bank, 2000 cash and has to report it.There are documents called suspicious activity reports. And unfortunately there's this bank secrecy act, which prohibits the banks from releasing some of this or the government from releasing this information. I think it would actually. That some of the televangelists are involved in international money laundering, but we're not at Liberty to attain some of those SARS suspicious activity reports.I'm gonna tell you either way [00:26:00] organized crime. There are several televangelists that have had links to mafia. In the course of my research, I've found two televangelists that receive loans from mafia. So one of the ways the mafia made a lot of money was through something called loan sharking.They would offer high interest loans, the people that banks would pass on. And so one of those people was Rex Humbard. He was a televangelist pioneer in the fifties and sixties. He he got money from one of the New York five families through actually one of the unions. So the mafia to cover unions at that time, it was.And what happened was the unions had a huge pension funds. And so by getting their people in and taking over the unions, that access to all this money that was invested on the behalf of the [00:27:00]union employees and I'm so alone was made to Luxembourg church ministry and Tilton, Robert Tilton and other televangelists.He he was involved in getting a loan from Harmon Beeb or BB. I'm not sure how you pronounce his name. But this guy had a working relationship with Carlos Marcello who was the mafia leader of the new Orleans mafia. So, I mean, there's really weird stuff like that. There are additional Remmers that have not been able to verify.I keep looking for evidence, but I've not found it. But, and there was a guy named Mickey Cohen that he was involved in Sunday up a casino in Las Vegas. So he worked on the west coast and Mickey Cohen was involved in the mafia. [00:28:00] He went to a Billy Graham crusade. He a former person that worked for the mafia became a committed Christian, left the life of crime behind and try witnessing to him.And so Mickey Cohen He decided I'll try Christianity. And but he did not want to leave his crime behind because that made a lot of money. And in 1980, I'm sorry, 1957, the New York times wrote a story about it. And so th this Christian friend of his challenged, Cohen's like, well, why are you going back to crime?He says, they're a Christian, but ballplayers Christian Cowboys, Christian politicians, why not a Christian gangster? And so that, that quote is just crazy, but I really do think a number of these people operate like gangsters. Hmm. De'Vannon: So [00:29:00] the thing about that, that stands out to me is the way that we can use.Righteousness as a motivation to do just about anything in our heads. So I even heard where LATAM or Putin believes that this war, that he's raging is the will of God. Like he feels like he's doing that. You know, it reminds me of when saw before you became, Paul was out persecuting, the people who believe in Jesus, because he felt like it was righteous.You know, people can get in their emotions about, just about any fucking thing and believe that the ends justify the means and everything is okay. And cool. So they've used mafia money to bankroll these churches, but you know, publicly they're going to speak against crime and stuff like that. And you see, this is why it does do deal.We, it does due diligence for us to know the people we're supporting. I've heard it said before. [00:30:00] Like, did, you know, witchcraft, w I talk about witchcraft and stuff like that quite a bit, because it's real that I've been a victim of that before, but there is there certain churches and things like that that I have heard of where like the pastor, you know, wanted to have a high following of people, a large number of people.And so, you know, there's a, there's a, there's a spell or a ritual or whatever you want to call it, that can be done in order to, to, to, to shift the tide in your favor. It, so that you will grow a large audience of people, which involves human bones. And you know, so you don't really, you know, just as something big and popular and flashy, the roots of that thing might be quite dirty.You know, you never really know what you're dealing with. And when we talk about these preachers in these pastors and everything, I like to remind people, you know, you don't really know them, you know, when they show up to preach there at. [00:31:00] You know, so they're showing you a certain side of them and aspect, you know, they have their game face on, you don't know what them people are doing and saying when they're not around you, you know?And so you don't really, really know them. And so I'm wondering what your thoughts are. On exactly when pastors become corrupt. I know some of them go into it with, you know, just with the corrupt intentions from the beginning, they just want to open a church for a year or two, milk it for all of his worth and then closed the bitch down and, you know, hit the Vegas baby or whatever the case may be.And I think some of them started off good. Then they became bad from when I was a drug dealer. One of the things that surprised me the most was how addicted to power over people on became what I, when I came to a point where I had influence over people, it changed me. And from that experience, I learned that whenever a person has sycophantic people around them and people, you know, cooling after them and stuff like that.[00:32:00]Before, you know, it, it can begin to corrupt and alter your motives in the power you have over people and the knee to now keep them around. You can influence the decisions that you're making before you were aware that that's happening to you. And so these churches now have all of these millions of dollars and all of these followers, they have to keep those people in order to maintain their lifestyle and what they're doing.And so when I hear preachers talk, it's almost like they're trying to toe the line and that kiss everybody off and stuff like that. So their word is not pure, you know, anymore. What are your thoughts on. And then they give you a specific example of that. When I was reading on the Lakewood riots, you know, they were, they had asked them about the whole gay thing.And at the end, I think Joel said that he would definitely never marry somebody because that's against his beliefs, but they let him in Victoria would attend the gay wedding. You know, if their friends got married, that's what the [00:33:00] article said, you know, that's different than what they've said previously, because before they were just like against all the gay shit, you know, all of our gay beauty and glory entirely, so answers like that, make it seem like what a preacher says, shifts with the temperament of the world rather than just being a standard.So what do you think about when do preachers become corrupt in how their message has changed by about by trying to maintain their lifestyle? Barry: Yeah, I mean, it varies from preacher to preacher. Some of the people that I investigate. I think they were always frauds. Unfortunately it's, you can get into legal trouble sometimes if you name names and you say they're guilty of fraud and they've never been convicted of fraud.So there, I mean, there's one specific [00:34:00] person I have in mind, but I'm not going to say the name that I don't believe for a minute that he believes anything. He preaches, I'm convinced it's totally a scam, everything he says. And I've watched videos where he preaches. So a little over a week ago, I was on Facebook and Facebook recommended an article to me, and it was about a expert on syrup killing and this This expert.And I don't remember his name. He's living in the U S and France. He told many stories, He he had claimed to the interviewed over 70 serial killers. And, but there's this fans of the true crime genre. They just ate up his articles and books, his speeches, but some people started raising questions.And so there was a Facebook group that was formed to [00:35:00] investigate and, and they, they went in all in and they discovered numerous lies. So I was reading this article and I came across a term that I had never seen before. Methadone, many. And the Amidah maniac, they tell, constantly told tales about themselves.They're lying habitually, and there's a word called pathological liar. And it's a clinical diagnosis. There are people that lie all the time and some of these preachers are a lot like that. And when you construct a mythology about yourself, sometimes they'll tell fanciful stories about their past.And what happens in with a liar is you tell a lie and then you have to tell another lie to cover the previous lie, and it becomes a habit. And when you become a perpetual liar, [00:36:00] you're no longer authentic. And I think this is a serious problem that we have not really explored much a planning to write about it more in the future.But I think this is actually how some of these people got started a white lie, a little lie, they tell, and then they have to tell another and another. And so what happens is because of that, they, but they stopped being authentic. And because of that, their moral compass is shattered. They I think line can actually be a precursor to becoming a criminal.And so this is a new line of thinking that I'm exploring. There's one person that I'm looking at that we actually had an informant contact us and said that this pastor's in. He doesn't believe the Bible at [00:37:00] all. He laughed about the Bible on a private setting. And so I'm not going to say who the preacher is.I'll leave it to other people to be curious. I mean, you know, I tell you off the camera of it. There's there are people like this, that it's a scam and this preacher preaches the prosperity gospel is well-known in prosperity gospel circles. Yeah, I mean, there's a book, there's a Bible verse about crime when it, or sin, when it, it lust desire.It's not just talking about sexual to talking about other things. And I forget the exact context in the verse, but when we desire something that maybe we shouldn't have Greed. I mean, you look at the 10 commandments grieve, do not [00:38:00] even desire your neighbors ox or whatever it says in that verse.Yet the Bible says we're not to be lovers of money, but you look at the prosperity gospel preachers of the bunch of them are lovers of many. That's almost all they preach about sermon week after week after week. So some people, I think they compromised there are priests they're stories of priests and pastors that developed a gambling habit and because of gambling losses, they embezzled funds.So maybe that's what led to them getting involved in crime. There are pastors that had a flying, got a woman pregnant then, well, what are we gonna do? We'll help pay hush money. And so. Jim baker is not the only person to ever pay us money, but somebody that was not a wife that he was involved sexually with.[00:39:00]But I mean, things like this happen and I think that's another way it can lead to criminal and other bad activities is not being faithful to espouse. There are people that will blackmail you and there, if someone gets pregnant that's how are you going to take care of that child?I mean, they don't want their church congregation knowing that they've done this. I mean, I've heard of pastors pressuring women to have abortions. They got them pregnant. I mean, that's related a little bit to what we spoke about earlier. But yeah, so lying, I think leads to crime can lead to crime.There, the Bible talks about the fruits of spirit and one of the fruits of the spirit is self-control and I'll be the first person to admit that I had been lacking in this area in my life at times. It's a hallmark of people that have [00:40:00] addictions and some of the pastors that we investigate, I suspect of having addictions.I mean, I don't have the proof then I'm not going to name names for that reason specifically. But there are some that have taken various narcotics, some for 'em because of pain. And I don't know when a person lacks self-control they can create a lot of.De'Vannon: Yeah. So what, what you're saying is in there, the lack of lack of self-control besides getting strong out on dope, you're talking about the superfluous lifestyles in general. So yeah, [00:41:00] so Barry: that's for me and self-control, I want to write a book, but I'm a natural procrastinator. I've been, I've struggled for years.And completing things that I start. This is just one of my, one of my weaknesses. And so I mean, there are a lot of poles, a lot of American struggle in the area procrastination. And that's actually another topic that I might want to write a book about because one of the areas where I've had struggled, there's not much written about it.And that's the topic of maladaptive dangerous. I'm the person that can daydream for hours and just not even realize it. And suddenly where did the day go? It's wild, but very little is written about that in the literature on procrastination. And so a person that lives in a fantasy world, imaginary world, what if your air, your mind is going in the area of [00:42:00] human sexuality?What if this becomes sexual fantasy sexual role playing? There's all kinds of problems that can happen in that realm. I think and I've not seen the research for this, but I would not be surprised if some rapists, some sexual predators. They struggle with maladaptive daydreaming in the area of sales show, fantasy and sexual roles.There, there are a variety of things that I want to explore that are going to make people uncomfortable. And when I see some of these preachers preach the way they engage in storytelling makes me think that there is fantasy or role playing involved.De'Vannon: You're [00:43:00] saying that they, that they're losing touch with reality. Barry: Yes, De'Vannon: let's see. The thing about that is the people around them are not challenging them because, you know, we're not taught in churches to challenge authority and they're probably not truly encouraging themselves to be checked and challenged either.So, so I can see how our preacher can devolve in the middle of their congregation because you know, preachers are not really accountable to anyone. The government doesn't hold them to account of. People already have them in high esteem because there's supposed to be clergy or whatever. So they really are some of the most unaccountable people in the world.Then when you don't have accountability, you can go buck wild, you know, quite easily, you know, before you even realize it. But you know who, you know, who really is going to check them, you know, who, you know, that's what you're trying to do through your organization and thank God for it. But those people don't operate from [00:44:00] the perspective of fear.You know, they don't think they don't think something's going to happen to them. If they do something that's not right. They know that no one's going to come and get them, you know, likely, you know, and I was thinking this morning about, you know, to your point about how they get superfluous. And they, you know, they rack up all this money, all this fortune, all this fame.And I was just considering, you know, the prophets of old and the preaches from the Bible days, you know, a lot, usually those people weren't very well. You know, outside of the Kings, you know, the Kings of the entire nation of Israel, they weren't rich, you know, and they were not popular, you know, easy keel Steven, you know, the, you know you know, Isaiah, Jeremiah, no, those prophets were sent to argue with the nation of Egypt, Israel with the people were supposed to be God's people.They weren't really sent to argue with the world. You know, a lot of the contention in the Bible is happening, you know, in God's nation, you know, his internal [00:45:00] conflict, but generally speaking, the, the great preachers we think about were not popular people. They were not liked, you know, they were heavily persecuted and stuff like that.And you flip the script today and the preachers today are well received everywhere. They go, they have celebrity access, they have money and power and everything like that. But from the beginning it was not. So, and so I don't know. What do you think about that? The contrast there. Barry: The, on the Bible, there's a verse in second Thessalonians.It talks about the falling away of the church, the church descends into apostasy. So the church becomes, becomes corrupt from within it's a prophecy from scripture. And I believe we are witnessing that today. It's been happening for centuries and some would say the church has always been corrupt. There's always because centers are involved in the church.When you look at [00:46:00] early Christian literature, this is not in included in the Bible, but the dedication was like a little booklet, whatever it, it was instructions for early Christian leaders and it prohibited the pastor from begging for money if they did. So they're considered to be a false.I mean, people don't today in the church, most people have never even heard of the dedication that I don't know, even know it exists. And unless you are to take a church history course in a seminary, you probably have never heard of it. So I mean, this is one of the problems that Christians don't know their history.The Bible says about false teachers or teachers in the church that they will tell people what they want to hear. They'll scratch their itch years. And I'm convinced you see that [00:47:00] with Joel Osteen, big time. And these prosperity preachers that serve like life coaches, always telling people you can be prosperous if you give money.I am convinced they're telling people what they want to hear. People that Preach that it's not God's will that you ever be sick? I'm again, I'm convinced they're telling people what they want to be here. Most people, not, not everybody believes what they say, but it's, it's a problem.There are the Bible talks about the full counsel of God, and you're not getting that in a lot of churches. So, I mean, there's two different types of preaching style. There is expository preaching where you go verse by verse and then there's the nomadic preaching or a person does topic by [00:48:00] topic. I mean, I've listened to preachers, do both like a pastoral preach that entire book of the Bible week after week, going through verses to complete one chapter and then the next, then the next, and by doing that, you can cover a broad basis.But in today's church, a lot of preachers preach on topics that they feel comfortable with, or they prefer speaking on some churches that just churches they'll have what is called stewardship month. In the month of February, they'll preach about money. Some churches it's a regular pattern.They preach about Eastern your Easter and so on. But it's very easy for a pastor just to stick with what makes them comfortable. And it's not a good thing. You, a pastor should want to make [00:49:00]people uncomfortable. They should want to speak the truth in season and out of season. I mean, if you really believe the truth can set people free from bondage and you should be proclaiming it all the time.And Christianity, it teaches that sin separates us from God. And so, I mean, this should be a a thing, but you hear less and less about scent. They'll want to talk about love or prosperity or happiness. And, and there's more to it. I mean, the Bible talks about suffering. The Bible talks about the fruits of the spirit.The Bible talks about parents being godly role models for their kids. I mean, there, there's so many topics that you can, a preacher can preach on or, or they can just start with one book and then preach to another. And, or you can do that in a [00:50:00] small business, a small Bible study. If your people were to do that, I think they would encounter the verses that offer a proper critique to the prosperity.God. The Bible says that about church leaders, that they must not be lovers of money. Well, how many of these prosperity preachers are gonna quote that Bible verse or read it to their congregation? De'Vannon: Right. Barry: You need them to be well-rounded in the word. The Bible says to study, to show yourself approved and to God, a worker that rightfully not ashamed dividing the word of truth. I just botched that verse. I know it, but it's in, I think second Timothy I might be wrong, but study to show yourself approved under God.When I was a teenager, I'm [00:51:00] at a new year's resolution to read the entire Bible. And so I did not finish read the Bible that year. I made it a new year's resolution this next year and then failed again. Third year I made that in a resolution. I read through the entire book. I'm convinced. I never would've read the entire Bible, had it not been a goal.And so again, a lot of Christians, I think they go to church to get, be spiritually fed. They don't feed themselves though at home. I mean, how many people this week, that claim to be Christians will actually open a Bible away from church and read it. And that's where you really learn the word is when you study it on your own.De'Vannon: Yeah. I be telling people that all the time, like we shouldn't need to go to a church building to feel the closest to God when I was an immature Christian. I used to think that I had to go, you know, running the church and be at Lakewood or wherever. But specifically at Lakewood, because they've had the most.I would [00:52:00] say intricate worship experience there. And so I would think that I had to be, you know, in the main sanctuary at Lakewood church before I could actually feel close to God, that was immature thinking, you know, now I know better. I actually feel closer to God when I'm not at church, which is how it's supposed to be.You know, when you, when you read through the Bible and everything like that, when the Lord is dealing with several characters throughout the whole thing, you know, I want to say reading, the whole Bible is good. People don't do it from Genesis to revelation because it doesn't follow order. I would suggest start in the new Testament.It kind of work your way, you know, maybe like back from there, but cause they can confuse you, you know, and really hurt your mind to try to fit the thing in chronological order because it's not in chronological order. Gosh, I lost my train of thought. What was I, what was I saying before I [00:53:00] launched off into that warning about the, about not reading the Bible and like a specific order. Okay.I'm sure I've got all the time. Yeah. Thank you Lord. I know what I was saying. So, you know, it's more, you know, I now know that I get closer to God when I'm in my private time with him, then I preach spiritual independence to people all of the time, because there's a scripture that says that there should come a time in your life.And the Bible says that you will have me that no man should teach you. So this year means that you grow and gone to a point where you don't or you no longer need a pre. Churches like school. Eventually you must graduate. You shouldn't, you know, where they sell it to you in these churches. Like it's a badge of honor.If you've been a member there for X milestone years, 10, 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years. And so they pump you up and build you up and make it seem like you're more part of the family, or you have some sort of status if you're a 30 year member or whatever. But [00:54:00] I look at you with somebody who has not grown in God.Like you could have, you know, at this point, what, what are you still hearing these preachers say? Well, to your point, the messages are not heavily complex. They're not a whole lot of deep themes in them. You know, these days, you know, they're, they sound watered down and maybe people are going for the community and for the laser lights and all that.But you had mentioned earlier about like the whole falling away and this, there is the whole thing. I love how. Like Chris cross and God has made scripture. It's not something that's so claim to understand because everyone can read the same scripture and you can get different things out of it. But I believe a person's interpretation of scripture reflects what is in them.I see when I was growing up and that scripture about there being a falling away, they always made it seem like it would just be a bunch of heathen folk who just didn't want to fuck with God anymore and stuff like that. I don't think they ever considered that the falling away would be because of the church itself, you know, [00:55:00] and because of preachers, you know, pushing people away, you know, either direct.Or by their corrupt ass lifestyles. And then I, and I never thought I would see the day where I would be the one preaching against churches and against preachers and the way I grew up in church and everything like that. I never thought that this would be my ministry yet. Here we are, because churches are doing so much damage to people these days.It's just unreal. And I want to say, you know, various mentioned informants a couple of times. I don't really care for criminal informants because they use the Judas on my ass when SWAT came and raided my apartment with the canines and the helicopters and the rifles, the semi-automatic rifles on the face shields and the cavalier vest and kicked my door in when I was a big, bad drug dealer in Houston.You know, I guess you do have to be pretty big time to command all that sort of government funding to come and get your ass. That was a big time drug dealer in Houston. You know, [00:56:00] you know, when a swamp came and got me and all of that, so.Damn it. I lost my train of thought. Like, again, Barry: you mentioned informants, you mentioned formats. Well, I want to add something about that. W there are rumors of televangelists having killed people. And how do you back up the word of an informant? Often they don't want to go on a record. I mean, some of our best tips for investigators come from insiders that have worked inside some of these organizations.And so it's important for an investigator to reach out to people that have seen things and in churches well in business business world they know that employee theft is a serious thing. And so I've worked retail in the past and you've got [00:57:00] companies like Walmart office Depot, staples companies like this, that they will have employees in these companies that they oversee procedures to reduce employee theft and other.And so they'll go into a store and check out a cash office to make sure that things are properly logged. There'll be security cameras in the money room where the money is counted. They'll make sure that the receipts that the registered. And what the money that was taken out of the register are match.There are numbers, all phone number will be in the break room and employ if they suspect an employee, a coworker of doing criminal activity they could call the 800 number and report that person. And they can even get a reward for turning someone in. That's been stealing from the company and the church world.We generally don't have those kinds of [00:58:00] people to re to call the contact that can do a proper investigation. For example us, we look at it, fraud, theft and excess, but rarely theft, because number one, we generally don't have receipts and generally it's the church not contacting us to.Internally if they're going to investigate, they would hire their conduct, their local law enforcement or an accountant or an attorney to do an investigation. So, I mean, we've looked at some theft issues, but not that much, mostly we're documenting fraud, which involves deception lying in order to get money, things like that.And extravagant lifestyles. So a televangelist somebody living w beyond their mains is a big red flag for us. And so we try to document those types of things. The pastor's living in multi-million dollar homes, et cetera. [00:59:00] But the informants really can fill in the gap. For example they've told us where some of these people have homes.We'd never, would've known that Joel Osteen at a home in California, if it wasn't an informant that told us. De'Vannon: Yeah, that's what I was going to say. I was just going to say, if anyone out there wants to snitch though, I'm not a fan of them. I'll make an exception this time, then berries, you know, he's buried Bowen on Twitter.You know, that's how I contacted him. And all of his contact information information will be in the show notes. Is there any other way an informant can reach you to the spill, some tea, if they so desire, Barry: we have a form on our website that informant can fill out. They can filled out anonymously. They don't have to provide a phone number or contact information.However, when that happens there's not really a way of following [01:00:00] up. I mean, we, we, we try to protect our informants. If, if they want to go public we can help them do so. If they want to talk to media, we can possibly help that happen. If they want to fill out a report to the IRS we know how to fill out a form 13, 909 to report a non-profit official who's doing criminal activity.There's all kinds of different ways of going forward with an informant. De'Vannon: I hear you for the protection cause informants, they need to be protected. Barry: Yes. I'm not going to be on your podcast De'Vannon: today. I'm not going to dive too deep into the protections. I wouldn't want to divulge the way that you protect them.We still have a few more questions. I just wanted to throw that out there. Since we were on the subject of informants Barry: Main way we protect them is just with holding [01:01:00] their name. So like for example, we, if we were to publish a report with the IRS, it would say in our notes, it would say it was, came from a confidential informant.We wouldn't provide their name unless they gave us permission to do so.De'Vannon: Hm. So you wrote somewhere that you feel like more money is stolen, I guess each year from the church than what has spent on world missions. Barry: Yes. That came from the international bulletin of mission research every year, the January issue, they have a publish a table of global statistics. The person that started this I think his name was David Barrett or George Barrett.I forget he was the editor of the world, Christian Almanac and. He wanted to develop a [01:02:00]spreadsheet for global Christianity. He was curious about how much money is going to the church. How is it being spent? And when he got curious about, well, there has to be some money that's embezzled. How much is that?And there is an organization. My mind is blank. It's an association of, of forensic accountants that they study fraud. And they have come up with an estimate of how much money is embezzled by non-profit organizations. I don't remember the exact amount, just say 5% for example. So what they did David Barrett, what he did was he estimated how much money went into the church and para church organizations and then 5% or whatever percentage.This was the helmet she estimated was embezzled. More money. W if this is ordered to be true, there'll be more money embezzled by [01:03:00] religious leaders than spend a world missions. And we really do believe that to be the case. There are a number of churches that spend very little on world missions, and there are a number of really large mega thefts that happen that surface every year.There are people that will still for year after year after year, before they ever get caught. And then when they're caught the, the sums just add up really big. There was a woman named Laura Ford. She worked at fellowship church, a mega church in grapevine, Texas, pastor of the churches, ed young, Jr.And she was embezzling for a number of years before she got caught. And one of the techniques that she used was the church ran a camp and sometimes parents, they would pay in advance for the kids to go to camp and then had to cancel. And so seek a refund. So she has [01:04:00] right up refunds, but then the money would go to herself.And so this was one of the way that she was embezzling and there was no other person to really check her work. She worked in the church finance department. And so she was able to do things like this for a number of years without, before she got caught. Generally a church should have checks and balances.You want to have two people signing checks if only one person signs a check that can be a problem you want to limit to how much can be charged on a church bank card. You want just say anything over a thousand dollars or $500 or whatever needs to be approved by a committee. So large expenditures have to be approved by a committee.You want things safeguards and like that in place. You want the money counted. [01:05:00] If it's a lot of money you want it counted on camera. There are things like that that can really reduce theft. You want multiple people counting and Those kinds of basic safeguards that the business world is adopted churches should adopt them to.Do you have also the training in churches? Like for example, when I worked in retail had to watch a training video and one of the videos, it said that if you see something suspicious, ask questions I don't think people are taught that, that go to work in most churches. There are texts laws that people need to be aware of that work in churches.For example, if the pastor's wife accompanies the pastor on a number of trips sometimes that's, if the church is [01:06:00] paying for her travel that should be considered a fringe benefit. And it's true. There are receipts. If you turn in a receipt for embarrassment or you reimbursement for an expense, you should have a receipt.This is what can get some organizations in trouble if they're reimbursing expenses without receipts. That is a big problem. De'Vannon: You have a figure exam around about figures, about how much it's stolen each year. Barry: Yeah. Hi, it's been a while since I've looked at it, it was in the January issue. I think it was about estimate about 60 billion this year.I forget the exact amount. So in my book I've written a rough draft. This was a couple of years ago. I published the first chapter online. And again, it's [01:07:00] a working rough draft, but a balance sheet for global Christianity. It's on a website called the Christian Sentinel, a friend of mine, Jackie Eleanor runs that website.And so I go into the meth methodology of this level, this about the spreadsheet for global Christianity. There's a breakdown by region by Europe, north America, Africa, South Africa, south America Australia, so forth Asia. A lot of the money comes from north America. A lot of this theft. It really doesDe'Vannon: well that doesn't surprise me at all. Th the Americas is such a, it's such a broken, broken country is just such a broken country. Like morally ethically. And, you know, and we just can't get on the same page, but you know, what is America comprised of a bunch of different nations from all [01:08:00] over the world?You know, we're not really like to say you're American means a lot. Like what, you know, in terms of like ethically speaking, you know, if you were from France, you know, you are French. If you were born in ELA, you know, you were Italian, you know, America has a bunch of people from all over the world who, who got over here, the indigenous people were the ones who were originally here first, you know, so this is really their land.And so, so to say, you're an American, you know, you were born here, but your nationality probably traces back somewhere else. That's not here, which is something in my opinion is very unique to America, to America. But I think because of that, you know, we just can't see eye to eye, you know, in this country. I don't feel great unity here in So let me see.I think that might be all I want to cover with you this time. I'm going to have to have you back [01:09:00] for a third time because I really, and so, so next time, like I really, really want to get into, we're going to talk heavily, not today, but I'm just going to tease a little bit. We're going to get into the Bible translations industry.You have a kick ass article@thetrinityfii.org website, because one thing that I preach a lot to people is for them to fucking God damn learn how to read the Bible for themselves. I will cuss if I have to, whatever it takes for you to understand that you don't need a preacher to comprehend what God is trying to tell you from his word or.At least to look at it historically to see how it happened back then. So we're going to talk about who translates the Bible, how much money they make and stuff like that. I found it to be most interesting and most terrifying as well. And then we're going to talk about a couple of other [01:10:00] things too.'cause this is this subject matter here. I don't, I don't like the rush in general, but especially something as valuable as this is as valuable as you are, as valuable as the information that you have and how much church means the people. I don't want to rush through this. And so the we'll go ahead and close out.I felt like I'm running a revival, like a three-night revival or something like that. And this is the second night interview here, but we won't do the benediction. We won't do the Benedetti on it. We'll just we'll do that later. There. Anything that you would like to say at all about what we've said today?Barry: If you have questions, if you're in a church environment where you suspect fraud or theft or something, and you want to learn more about what laws may apply, feel free to reach out to me and [01:11:00] ask questions. I'll be glad to try to answer them or dig deeper with you and to finding out what's going on.Thank you. Yeah. De'Vannon: Alright then. Thank you so much for coming on and we will be doing part three soon.Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and resources at sex, drugs, and jesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.My name is De'Vannon and it's been wonderful being your host today and just remember that everything is going to be all right.
On today’s episode of Hard Factor the Pride Whopper from Burger King is offending pretty much everyone with their weird Pride Month money making scheme (00:12:05); Joel Olsteen’s church is under attack from panty-clad protestors (00:23:30); Todd Chrisley’s former employee and BF sells him out to the Feds (01:03:38); and much more… (00:00:00) - Timestamps Cup of Coffee in the Big Time (00:04:55) - Fun Fact: World’s Fair Still Exists (00:08:30) - Joke of the Day (00:09:18) - Wes’ Mom is a Hell of a Golf Shot (00:12:05) - Pride Whopper Offends Everyone by Trying to Profit off Pride Month with Nonsense Gimmick (00:20:00) - New Miracle Weight Loss Drug Wegovy Approved by FDA (00:23:30) - Panty Protestors Advocate for Abortion Inside Joel Olsteen’s Super Church TikTok International Moment (00:38:15) - Paraguay - El Gordito Lindo (The Cute Chubby) is a Drug Lord who snuck out of Prison in Drag (00:44:13) - India - Layer’r Shot made a weird grang rapey ad, and it’s extremely offensive (00:46:44) - Indian Man Takes the Power Back from his electric provider by using their office everyday Disney Wedding Gone Wrong (00:53:05) - Bride posts asking if she’s the asshole for not catering any food at her Disney wedding… Todd Chrisley’s Boyfriend (01:03:38) - Todd Chrisley’s spreadsheet jockey and former lover Mark Braddock turns on his to the FBI These stories, and much more, brought to you by our incredible sponsors: NOOM MOOD - Worry Less and Feel Happier. Sign up for your trial at Noom.com/factor HARRY’S - Get a Harry’s Shaving Starter Set for just $3, or get Free Engraving on any premium shave set for Dad when you go to HARRYS.COM/HARDFACTOR FIRST PERSON - Start improving your brain health and cognition with First Person! Get fifteen percent off your first order by going to GETFIRSTPERSON.com and use code HARDFACTOR Go to store.hardfactor.com and patreon.com/hardfactor to support the pod with incredible merch and bonus podcasts Leave us a Voicemail at 512-270-1480, send us a voice memo to hardfactorvoicemail@gmail.com, and/or leave a 5-Star review on Apple Podcasts to hear it on Friday's show Other Places to Listen: Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Lots More... Watch Full Episodes on YouTube Follow @HardFactorNews on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and
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INTRODUCTION: Heather Wylde Smith is a native of North Georgia, raised in the birthplace of NASCAR and the Moonshine Capital of the World. She jokes that she's a highly evolved Redneck/Hillbilly. Although she has a Tragedy Resume a mile long, she is living proof that our pasts only define us — if we let them. She often says: “Therapy kept me from jumping off a building. Personal Growth made me stop wanting to jump off a building.” Through relentless pursuit of health and happiness, she has overcome: • Stage 3 Breast Cancer• Mental/Emotional/Sexual Abuse and Trauma• Drug Addiction• And more! Her tremendous success with personal growth lead her to become a coach. She received her initial coaching training through Coach U in 2009.Today, she is the CEO and mad genius behind Wylde Coach LLC. She's a Biz Coach for ambitious purpose-driven coaches, healers and service providers who want to expand into their next-level selves in order to attract dreamier clients, raise their prices & restructure their businesses for maximum impact, profit and fulfillment. Heather's new book (Online Entrepreneur's Survival Guide) is available @ https://amzn.to/3mnUbxb She's available as a Guest Speaker/Expert and for Podcast interviews. Her blend of biz expertise, practical tips and outlandish humor make her a dynamic guest that your audience will eat up with a spoon! INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to): · Pitfalls To Watch Out For In The Coaching Industry· Difference Between A Consultant & A Coach· The Hypnotherapy Of Stagecraft· NLP – Neurolinguistic Programming And Mind Tricks To Be Aware Of· How Trauma Plays Into Sales· How FOMO Is Used Dishonestly· The Danger Of Making Rushed Decisions· What Is The Soul Behind Why You Do What You Do?· What Should Be Included In A Contract· Possible Vs. Probable CONNECT WITH HEATHER: Website: www.HeatherWylde.comBook: https://amzn.to/3mnUbxbLinktree: https://linktr.ee/HeatherWyldeCoachFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/HeatherWyldeEthicalSales/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/heatherwyldecoach/Twitter: https://twitter.com/WyldeRomanceLinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3pwrmANYouTube: https://bit.ly/3JrNO6c CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixPinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/_saved/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonEmail: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: · Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs · Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)o https://press.discoveryplus.com/lifestyle/discovery-announces-key-participants-featured-in-upcoming-expose-of-the-hillsong-church-controversy-hillsong-a-megachurch-exposed/ · Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levino https://leavinghillsong.podbean.com · Upwork: https://www.upwork.com· FreeUp: https://freeup.net VETERAN'S SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS · Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org· American Legion: https://www.legion.org INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: · PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon TRANSCRIPT: [00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: Hey, y'all has a wild is back with a brand new book. It's their second time on the show. And I'm so thrilled to have her. Now, this book is called the survivor's guide to entrepreneurship, and this book is going to help people avoid fake business coaches and bullshit like that, and how to avoid debt and regroup.Now in this conversation, we've gone to explore how neuro-linguistic programming also known as NLP and mind tricks play into sales and the traps you [00:01:00] should be looking out for when talking about how FOMO fear of missing out is used this honestly, and what should be included in contracts before we sign them.And of course, Heather and I share our old cocaine stories because that's the type of shit we do enjoy the episode. Hey bitch, have a wild what's the tape.Heather: What's up. De'Vannon: Hey girl. Hey N so y'all, we got, have the wall back with us for the second time, and we got some new shit to talk about. Cause he just dropped up fresh a book on the globe called online entrepreneurs, survival guide, how to choose the right business coach. And there's some other little words after that, but I'm too fucking lazy to read them.And but it's a very beautiful pink, black and white cover book. And pink is very on-brand whether you have there, that's [00:02:00] kind of like your thing. I'm channeling a living, John from Greece.Heather: the pink ladies. De'Vannon: The pink ladies and then the pink version of that black cat suit that she had on at the, at the end of the moving, whether, when they were doing the other one in that wall, she had on the all black, well, when they did like the grease reunion thing, she wore a pink version of that. All black pants, patent, leather, leather suit, she wore pink version of it to the after partyHeather: I have forgotten that I'm gonna have to go back and I have an ex that that was his favorite movie. And so I've kind of steered away from it for like 15 years. De'Vannon: breaking up is hard to do. Okay. So just to recap, y'all Heather has survived stage three breast [00:03:00] cancer. She's been through some mental, emotional, and sexual abuse type of things along with all sorts of trials. You had her own a drug addiction shit to deal with. And you know what, but prostitution, perhapsHeather: you know, 16 work taken 16 years worth. I mean, it's just a bit of prostitution now. De'Vannon: a little bit of pussy DLN on the side and stuff like that. Go along with the cocaine. You know, they do pair well together. We can just ask we can ask them that gates and the, the, the guy who wants to be the speaker of the house, who I pray never will be one of those Republicans. Cause their cocaine orgy shit, just, you know, that T does came out a few days ago.So Heather: Bored. De'Vannon: I'm not judging them for having cocaine or do cause I'm just judging them for oh, telling women what to do with their bodies.Heather: Right? Well, cocaine and orgies is a really dumb [00:04:00] combination because for men it usually gives them performance issues. Meth is much better for orgies because it makes you hard and you can't come for hours. De'Vannon: I've been in the room expecting to get my booty hole filled with all kinds of jazz. And it didn't happen because the dude had coped Dick.Heather: Hope Dick is, is a real fucking thing. And you know, for women, I've seen people, people fetishize Coke. It's so funny. I remember being with this couple when I was escorting and they're like putting the Coke, like directly on her clit and then like licking it off. And I'm like, you just numbed her cliteracy she is never going to be able to come.It's just not a good idea. Anyway, we digress. De'Vannon: No, I tried, I, I snorted a couple of lines of a hard Dick before, seem to mind.Heather: Well, that's because you were doing it. Like I was paid thousands of dollars, you know, to be [00:05:00] a coat mirror for somebody, like I just laid there and they just kept snorting Coke off my boots, my back, my butt, whatever. But then they were. Going to the door and shutting it. Have you been with these people?Like I got to shut the door, so they get up and they shut it. And then two minutes later, they're like, I got to go open the door and then they'll stay in there and the door and they'll look, cause they've gotten, they've reached their point of paranoia. That is annoying as fuck B the Coke mirror didn't bother me dealing with the paranoia was like, oh, there's nobody there.De'Vannon: Well, I've been the paranoid one. So I can't, you know, it is what it is. I can't you know, I can't really, you know, everyone has their roles to play, but nobody's trying to intentionally hurt anyone. So you're, they're making your money there. They're freaking out. Cause they did a bump too many. I've been there a few times.Heather: Yeah, thankfully I'm, I'm allergic to Coke. And so if I snorted it, I would get a sinus infection for a month. [00:06:00] And so I would eat it, but it doesn't give you the same kind of high. Right. And so I never got paranoid off of it. And I mean, you know, I wasn't like, oh my God, you're a deficient person for doing this.I was just like, God, this is boring. De'Vannon: Those were the fucking days. Oh my Heather: were interesting, interesting days. I'm glad that I had them. And I'm glad that I don't have them anymore. De'Vannon: The most, one of the most paranoid trips that I had when I had shot away too much meth. And I was at the VA hospital in Houston and I was, I just, I would just, I was hearing like keys jingle. I thought the cops were coming to get me and I'm in, I'm in, I'm in an emergency room. The cops just can't walk in there and get you.But I'm thinking, I'm hearing the sounds of them coming, like, like their keys and shit. And so. The nurses got so fucking pissed off with me and my paranoia. They gave me a couple of pills to take wait for three days, [00:07:00] I slept through the whole 72 hours. Coroner's home. They were done with my ass.Like this bitch said, babysitting my ass all the way down for three days, I woke up. I was in a completely new clothes. I was in the hospital's probes. I didn't change. They,the doctor was using when those codes over things, a scrape under my foot, trying to get me to wake up and he was reading. The nurses are fail to tell him the hell in her. She gave me too damn much, met too much medicine, but she done with my ass. And soHeather: oh, wow. Yeah, that, that was excessive. De'Vannon: Well, I am a Sagittarius. It's not like this as for, into my demeanor. Heather: Okay. De'Vannon: All right. Y'all so Heather's book is called online entrepreneurs. So in this book, she is trying to open your eyes to [00:08:00] the bullshit, the pitfalls, the scandals, hashtag a scandal and the, and the deceptions that tend to prevail in this whole business coaching mentor guru world.Now tell us why you wrote this book and what qualifies you to have written it.Heather: So what qualifies me to write it is that I have been in this world for 13 years, and I really both as a student of personal growth and as a coach, as a struggling coach and what I, and I've invested in myself over and over again, you'll hear people say, you have to invest in yourself if you want to get anywhere.And it's true. But you have to be smart about your investments. And because I came in with kind of, to my rose colored glasses were a little too rosy, and I looked at this height, marketing is what I call it.you know, where this false promises and they're blowing everything out of proportion. And I [00:09:00] swallowed it hook, line and sinker because I was like, okay, I'm here to help people.I'm a coach. These people are coaches. We're all here to help people. So they're not going to lie to me. Right. So I came in and was very, very, very naive. And I spent a lot of money and didn't really get anywhere. And I spent years blaming myself for it as so many other entrepreneurs do. And wondering what was wrong with me.I'm like, you know, I'm a very good, I'm very much a go getter. You know, I'm an action taker. I'm smart. I'm passionate. I'm a good coach. Why can't I get this? And thinking there was something wrong with me. And then in the past couple of years, I started, I don't know, talking to more people about this, I started to understand more and more about what's going on behind the marketing, why I kept making bad decisions and still, you know, owning the, I made them, you know, but really understanding what's going on with the marketing and the sales in the coaching industry that makes it really difficult to find the right coach.And the book is [00:10:00] written toward new entrepreneurs, but is actually really helpful for more advanced entrepreneurs. People who are actually working with clients to understand why they're still struggling, you know, while they're not getting the $10,000 a month, $20,000 a month that everybody talks about. And it also, if you're just a student of personal or spiritual growth or you're somebody. Is interested in hiring a health coach, like the information in this, it's really all about helping you to see the truth behind the marketing and the sales tactics, and know how to research and how to interview potential coaches so that you find the people that are actually going to help you make progress, as opposed to the people that are just going to take your money.And they really don't care if you get results or not. De'Vannon: When you say that Heather? I think about, so like when I was starting down under apparel that calm my clothing company, which I also have a numb here in Southern Louisiana. Not exactly known for high fashion, certainly not skimping man panties and things like that. Heather: Right. [00:11:00]De'Vannon: No, there was a guy. Heather: Well, there's That part of urban street.De'Vannon: That one part of urban history.There's this guy online who has a store in Oregon. And and I reached out to him and I think I had asked him just to like, so some advice, you know, on like what to do and stuff like that, the sort of thing that I would freely give away to somebody. And he responded with like his coconut Salton packaging, but he has now he's an underwear retailer who owns an underwear store, but he's also trying to be a consultant too.And he's telling me, you know, I've got to fly him to Louisiana and pay him like however many thousands of dollars to to get his system down. Because in your book, you warn about this one size fits all thing. And I kind of felt like he was trying to do that. I'm like, wait a minute, you haven't done a market analysis.You haven't, you don't know how many people are here with the population is. You don't know what, you know, what I'm selling or you don't know anything. And yet you're already telling me how much you're [00:12:00] going to charge and what you can promise me is going to happen. This cannot be, you know, it didn't feel right.So it seems like some people may hop into trying to be a coach too soon because with him, and I've seen this before, like, so is it like an arrogance thing, you know, is he thinking more highly of himself that he should because he's been successful on his one end or does he think people are that damn stupid and he can take advantage of them?Is it a little bit of both?Heather: So it was a couple of things, you know, there's a couple of things that I see that are going on. Number one there's a lot of people like Brendon Burchard comes to mind. A lot of people know Brendon Burchard and some of his stuff is really good. And some of the stuff is really inspiring, but he's one of these big mega coaches and his, I don't know, I haven't watched, I haven't followed him in years, but you know, as of five, six years ago, he was [00:13:00] still preaching that like, you don't have to be trained as a coach.All you need is. Your life experience something you're good at, and you can monetize it, then you can make thousands of dollars and blah, blah, blah. So a lot of it has been created by the coaching industry, telling people what they want to hear in order to, you know, it was for these business coaches that get on and they're like, Yeah. you know, you're a brand new coach.You've never had any training. You have no out, you know, you've never had formal training and whatever it is that you're trying to do, yes, you should use, you should be charging people at least a thousand dollars an hour, you know, And they do this so, that they can sell their coaching packages. Right. So there is a lot of the businesses are unregulated. There is a certification there's at least one like really respected certification process through the international coaching Federation. But. You know, even that whole system isn't perfect, you know, and I don't believe that you have to be certified, but you should be trained as a coach. Okay. So there's, there's number [00:14:00] one.Number two, a lot of people will go through a business coaching program or they'll have their own successful business and then they'll decide, okay, I can help other people with this. And they don't. Some of them are. Realize that just because something works for you doesn't mean it's going to work for somebody else's business.The one thing that God was doing right is he was calling himself a consultant. so the difference between a consultant as a coach is that a consultant comes in and they give you a system and they really don't help you customize it and tweak it. They're just sold on the fact that their system is gold, right?A lot of people that call themselves coaches are really more consultants. A coach really should be asking you questions and helping you figure out what is going to be best for you. And if they're are a specialty coach, like a life coach is really just asking questions. But if somebody is a business coach or some kind of, you know, weight loss coach or something, they should be teaching as well as helping you, you know, figure out what's going to be best for you and your lifestyle.And then you touched on the arrogance thing. And I had talked about this in the book. [00:15:00]There are narcissists and narcissists and sociopaths in all walks of life. They tend to be attracted to you know, politics a lot of CEOs and upper management, you know they just, they work really well in those environments.And I believe that they are very, very strongly attracted to the coaching industry, the personal growth world, because it's an opportunity for them to get thousands and thousands and tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of fawning fans plus make a lot of money. And they're really good in this world because their arrogance, like when somebody is really confidence and confident and they have a lot of authority, it's easy for them to sell to you because you're like, oh, clearly, you know, they know what they're doing.Like they're so confident in it. Right? So there's a lot of different things going on there that, that kind of answer your question. wonder.De'Vannon: Yeah. And so, so a big part of the purpose of your book is to help, to help people to [00:16:00] divine the nuances that will tell what somebodies intentions are. Because a lot of what I read through there, it's like very finite details. You know, like one flip of the switch, one way to the left or the right could make the difference in between whether or not a person's legitimate or not, or whether or not they're a good fit for you or not.These, there, there weren't like a whole lot of big gaping differences. This is very, very subtle. A lot of these things that you point out.Heather: Yeah.It, well, they look gaping to me and thank you for that feedback. They look deep into me because I've been staring at them for so long. Right. But yeah, to somebody that's new in the industry, like you come in and, or, you know, you're just coming in And you're like, oh, you know, I really want to learn Reiki or I want to Yeah.gosh, I mean, I want to have better relationships and you're just coming as an, as a consumer and you get online and it's just like, you're just inundated with so many people who are [00:17:00] like, I'm great at this blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.But if you don't know how to right. Ask the right questions and you don't know what it is that you really need, like you can end up in things that don't fit. So for instance, one of my first clients, she had bought into a program that was, it was a business program and they were like, we can help any business.Our system, our system works for everybody. Right. And she gets in it and it's all about going live and she's terrified of going on camera. So she didn't, she didn't ask the question. You know, she, she just got caught up in the hype of, oh, our business. Our system works for everybody. Just come work with us and you're going to be, you know, you're going to make so much money.Your message is going to get out. Yada, yada. You know, we need to ask questions. It's like, okay, that's great. Now, how are we going to do this? You know, our, if you're a business coach, you know, are you going to help me with Facebook ads? Are you going to help me by going live? Are you going to show me you know, how to [00:18:00] really monetize reels?Like, what are you doing? Because there's some things that are going to be more in our wheelhouse than others. Right? We need stuff. That's going to play to our strengths and to our comfort level, especially in the beginning.De'Vannon: Right. And what you speak about confidence, the confidence that people have and they project themselves. I'm remind, I'm thinking about like the charity I'm thinking about hitting the therapy. So like, when I was getting my hypnotherapy training, you know, they explained to us how, when people are like, say up on an elevated platform in our minds, we automatically believe they know more than.But they don't necessarily, they don't necessarily have to have done anything to deserve it. We haven't fact checked anything about them just because they have a suit on and they're on a stage. Well, they must know more. It's just the way we as people are. And so there's warnings, you know, against that.And it'll, and why I'm saying that, so these, so these consultants, girls, whatever the fuck they want to call themselves, haven't done this in a way with [00:19:00] either their social media, but bolstering followers, getting reviews on their websites or whatever the case may be. Preachers do it all the time, you know, through having hypnotic, acquires and bands and all these things to make you feel good and everything like that.And you're too busy feeling good with what the speaker consultant preacher is saying. And you're not critically examining, what's being said, you'll do busy feeling good about what's happening. So your critical mind has been defeated because you're too busy with all the frills of shit, the Freeland shit.And so Our news is the same way. Yes, news politics. Sure.Heather: Yeah. Get you get people into their feelings and they don't, and they turn off their rational mind and their critical thinking. De'Vannon: That's exactly the way it works. Republicans and Democrats alike, but lately I would say more the Republicans because they don't really, they don't really push policies. You [00:20:00] know, they're more like against, you know, who can we be against today? We're going to be against the women who want abortions are going to be against people who want to get high.We're going to be against immigrants. You know, we're going to be against anyone who's not white and conservative basically. And and you know what, they got their little base that's for that and that, and they're all insecure in their own way, which is why they need to destroy other people in order to feel better about themselves.And so. you know, I go on that tirade because there's so much humanity, so much of the human condition. And when I say the human condition, I mean our weakness and our fallenness, the things that betray our highest selves wrapped up into this. And so we have broken people who want to go out and be consultants and girls and all of this and tell other people what to do, but they're not perfect themselves.Now, one thing I like about you like you have a, a chapter line in here, it says making money while being a major [00:21:00] force for positive change in the world, you know, you always tie your consultant, your business in with some sort of spiritual element. So that lets me know that you don't lose the the importance of the person that you're dealing with.And I think that this happens a lot, even in the one size fits all thinking like the guy from Oregon was trying to do with me, or like what you've seen and then not looking at the individual, you know, they're more concerned about the process than the person. So why do we allow ourselves to receive this sort of abuse? When somebody is dealing with us and they're just hitting numbers and figures and promises, and they're not really seeing us, but we're going to go and give them our money anyway.Heather: Yeah. So interesting question. So there's, I had a [00:22:00] conversation with somebody who was a kind of trauma informed. I've had a few conversations while I was writing the book. And a couple people were like trained in NLP and neuro-linguistic programming when used consensually and we're, you know, by the light side of the forest by a Jedi is an awesome thing.Like it can be deeply, positively transformational. The problem is, is that it's a subtle form of hypnosis. And so if you're using it in marketing and sales, which is what is happening you're, it's really, it's, it's really like your mind raping people into like paying attention to your marketing and buying from you.And I had another conversation with someone who specialty is in like regulating the nervous system, right? And people who need the most regulation of their nervous systems are people who have endured a lot of trauma or endured any trauma. Any, any trauma is, is Congo can dysregulate you. Right. And I asked and I said, do you feel like people [00:23:00] that are trauma survivors are more prone to falling for this?You know, these height marketing and I call it sociopathic sales to the manipulative belittling, shaming pushy sales types. Right. And I said, you know, do you feel like trauma survivors are more prone to falling for this? And she said, absolutely. And if you think about it, like so many people that are in the coaching world that are in, especially with people that are in it for the Right. reasons, we've had a journey where we've had to heal ourselves.We've had to go on this growth journey And we've kind of taken everything that we've learned from other people. And I say we, because I, I do transformational stuff too. I'm just kind of, I kind of ended up as a business coach kind of accident, but most of us have gone through some kind of healing and growth journey and we take all the stuff that we've learned and we kind of develop our own system.Right. And so a lot of the people that are coming into coaching are trauma [00:24:00] survivors. And so it makes sense that this really nasty marketing and sales is going to work on. Right. Cause there's still parts of us that we're working on healing and you know, like you said, you've got people that are jumping in and they're coaching and consulting and they are, they don't have their lives.Perfect. It's not about having your life. Perfect. Although a lot of people on social media try to make it look like they've got everything figured out. Like don't go work with those folks. That's a warning sign. Like nobody has it all figured out. But it's just about being further down the road than the person that you're helping.You're, you're further, you're a few steps ahead of them so that you can actually reach back and help them get a few steps further. And ideally you want to be working with people who have coaches themselves and are on still on a growth journey, right. Because the further they go, the further they can help you come as well.De'Vannon: Right. And y'all when she mentioned the neuro linguistic programming, the NLP and things like that, which is a subset of hip hypnotherapy. What she's talking about is [00:25:00] the subtle tones of voice inflections. Word choice. You can use different settings, music, colors, different Body language Body language and things like that, that you're not, you know, in these things invoke a response.So it's a difference if I say, Hey, how are you as opposed to, Hey, how are you? You know, it, it sets a different, it sends out a different vibe to wherever it is, I'm directing it towards. And so if you know how to use the right words with the right, phrasiology and the right tones, the right totals and things like that, you can shift and change the energy within a conversation to your liking.If you're dealing with somebody who's not aware of what the fuck you're doing. And so but this is why those Jedi mind tricks only work on the weak mind that no, one's going to be weak minded by the time they're done with your book.Heather: [00:26:00] Well, that's, that's the hope. And it's interesting you say that about, you know, it only works on people that don't know what you're doing. So there was a great article on medium that a woman, she had been trained in NLP and she had, she was really blasting the people that had trained her because she had paid $13,000 to come to this three week long.In-person. And they had hyped it up, though, this is all you need to start your business. You're going to be a master trainer. By the time you leave, yada yada yada yada. And she said, the first week of the training was amazing and they taught them so much and they were all practicing together. And she said, the second week they started using the same techniques.They had just taught them to try to push them into spending 7,000 more dollars to get the next level of training. And she said it was such a mind, fuck, because she's like, you guys just taught us this bullshit. And now you're trying to use it on us. But she said that out of the 30 people, 28 people signed up and she [00:27:00] said there were herself and one other holdout.And she said they did this whole exercise, which was a visualization exercise. And it was all about like being. It was something about lifeboats. I can't remember the specific name, but it was something about like being left behind, but it was all designed to just really undermine these last two people's inner knowing and make them sign up for this thing.And so it can work on people, even if they're aware, unfortunately. Right. You just have to, you have to be aware and you have to stop yourself and be like, wait a minute. Why am I doing this? Because I really think it's a good idea or because they've really put it in my head that if I don't do this by businesses never going to go anywhere, or I'm never going to get the man I want, or I'm never going to lose the weight I want or whatever. De'Vannon: Well, I will say those 20, those 28 people who were able to suck her into paying the additional 7,000 Heather were, they were probably, they were [00:28:00] freshly taught about this, but more to the point they were still. In the control of the people who taught them, they were still in their arena on their playing field, you know, at their conference, you know, they, you know, they, they were still, they were still on their field.They hadn't had time. Then they had time to go home and let it process yet. And that's why they didn't let them get out and get away from them because their mind was still open and receptive and in a state of hypnosis processing the information. So they still struck out the struggle. The iron was hot.Heather: Oh, absolutely. And that's why you see so many, you know sign up in the next 24 hours or the price is going up or, you know, like there's, there's healthy urgency. And I talk about this in the book, like toxic FOMO, Right. So there's, you know, a little bit of FOMO and marketing where it's like, okay, the doors are closing soon.I've only got three spots left. Right. And if the person is being [00:29:00] honest about that. Okay, fine. But when it goes into the toxic is like, we may never offer this program again. We're never going to offer this program at this price again. And I've seen, like, I've seen people send the same email out saying that for years about things.And so it's like, if you're interested in that program and you have the funds and it works for you right now, then go ahead and buy it. But don't break yourself, you know, trying to buy this thing because you're like, oh my God, they're never going to offer it again because chances are it's bullshit, you know, and never fall for someone.Who's like, I'm the only person who can help you. Like that person does not have your best interest at heart. It's like run like help.De'Vannon: Right. I've seen that recently where a person was like, you know, sign up. There's only two slots left, blah, blah, blah. It feels pushy. I don't like the energy. And so I want to offer this to people until you, you know, you can learn more about what Heather's talking about. You can read her book and learn about NLP and different things like that.[00:30:00] Sign up to take a class or two of hypnosis. I recommend the hypnosis motivation Institute, where I got my hypnotherapy training from you don't have to get the whole certification. You can just take like a class or two specific to what you would like to learn about and be done with it. You can do it online, but you, you, my prayer is that you are at least able to feel when something's not right.And that you don't ignore what that voice inside your head is telling you that disturbed feeling. Now you got to get quiet and listen to yourself. Don't make a decision when you're standing right in front of somebody always go home and think about it, period. Heather: yup. Yup. De'Vannon: Because you know, the, the spirit of that whole act now at quake, there's only two left.First of all, they're lying. They have, they have as many slots as they can feel because they're trying to make as much money as they possibly want to. So it's bullshit and they're not telling the truth. SoHeather: Sometimes sometimes, really like they are down to the wire and they really don't, you know, [00:31:00] don't, I wouldn't automatically dismiss somebody for saying that there's only a couple spots left. If they're trying to rush you. Like, if the rest of their stuff, like, I would note that maybe as a yellow flag, but take it in context.Does that make sense? De'Vannon: requires for research.Heather: Right. Right. You know, because yeah. Some people use it as height and some people, some people are art legit. Like my program is almost full, but I've got a couple more spots. Right. It's like the energy behind it, you know? But the people that are like act now act now out now a lot of that time, like you think about it.I talk about this in the book. If you think about like any hustle movie in econ movie you've ever seen, they're always rushing people because when we're, when we're being rushed, we're off bound. You know, anybody that's shaming you or belittling you, or trying to make you feel like you're never going to get anywhere.If you don't take action by buying from them. And right then that's a problem that person does not have your best interests at heart. [00:32:00]De'Vannon: Indeed in. I wanted to talk about this. I want to caveat a little bit here and to the book writing world, because I kind of pivot back to the importance of remembering the soul behind what you're doing. Now. I get some people more emotional and spiritually inclined than others, and it takes all sorts of people to make this world work.So it comes to writing books, like in the, in the, in the literary world of ghost writer is kind of along the lines of like a literary consultant. If you will, or coach, this is somebody who possesses, but you know, as it is understood more skilled than the person who has the content for the book, the ghost writer can guide the person who has the content into creating a manuscript that is legible and marketable, et cetera.Heather: Right. De'Vannon: So the experience that I had with, with the person who helped me write my first book[00:33:00] And it was a memoir and, you know, these things get personal, you know, when you,Heather: And this is the one that you,just put out, but I've been reading, right? Oh my God. Y'all it is so good. It's so good.De'Vannon: so thank you, baby. So it was your book. And so, but she, it gets personal and I would imagine the same way when you're consulting and coaching, and you're getting down into people's details. At some point you cross the line of just strictly professional to quasi professional and quasi friends and quads. I personal because you're not just seeing them once here and there, you know, you're all up in this person's tea, business, grits and everything.And so I paid him like $40,000 to get two to two packages together because I had a lot of information. It wasn't going to be a simple book and that price is in the middle. The highest I saw was like about 80, 90,000 for a ghost writer. And then as low as you want to go. And then it, since then, Because of what I was trying to [00:34:00] say, I w you know, I felt like it was in the middle and that's all fine, you know, a flu this person down here to Louisiana.So we can go to different cities and stuff like that. I really wanted an authentic read and, and, but, you know, I was new and I didn't, you know, I'm wanting to get into like contract negotiations and stuff with this, because like, as it is now, and I just hadn't had it to do over, I wouldn't, I would've made sure that I had like unlimited revisions or something like that.Heather: Sure. De'Vannon: So he only wanted to do like two or three revisions, but the book really wasn't done. And it was, was so not ready to put out. And then he wanted to come back after I've already paid 40,000. I spent probably another 10,000 and all the traveling and eating out and everything. And now he wants to switch it to $200 an hour to do further work.And so, you know, at that point I felt like. You know, the time that we had spent together and traveling and all of this and letting you know for what's in my memoir, [00:35:00] there's so much more that didn't get told. So he knows like so much about me personally. And I just felt like, and then moment, he stepped back to being just like strictly business with me.And, you know, that's something that I should have known from the beginning. You know, if you're gonna, if the, if the book is unacceptable after revisions two and three, you're going to switch to 200 an hour. You should have told me that at first, you know, not on the back end when you feel like I need you in order to complete it.So now I'm in a situation where I'm thinking, okay, that you intentionally kind of get a little sloppy towards the end of the book, knowing you wanted to turn around and charge me an additional 200, you know, I finished it myself. It's not like I can't write, I just wanted somebody else to have an objective, you know, look on it.And I had already written 50,000 words of it before. You know, turn the project over to him. So I was just like, you know, fuck, y'all just do it. You know, myself, I'm not going to let you hustle me like that. And so, so with the current ghost writer that I have, who's helping me on the don't call me a Christian [00:36:00] book, which will be out later this year, different contract, far less expensive.And if there's anything additional needed, then it's going to be on a per word basis. And I already know this upfront. Heather: right. De'Vannon: And so speak to me about contracts. When, when like a consultant now in the book, Heather breaks down the difference between a girl, a mentor, a consultant coach, all of that, you know, all of that.But when it comes down to the contract, what should we look for? What do we need to have? What should we avoid?Heather: Okay. So first off, I'm not a lawyer, so but here's, here's what you want. You definitely, if somebody doesn't have a contract, that's that scary, like they very least need to have something that makes it really clear, like what their duties are and what the expectations of what you're going to do. Really nails down, like timelines really nails [00:37:00] down, like you know, how many sessions we're going to have, how much time we're going to spend together, you know, those kinds of things.Right? So it's always, it's always good to have a lawyer look over things, you know, but especially in the beginning as coaches or if you're just hiring somebody, not because you want to become a coach, you're not working on anything for work or working on anything. A personal probably don't want to go pay a little. To go over it, but there needs to be confidentiality clauses, you know, in there. You know, you need to know that this person, isn't going to take your personal information and go ride a book of their own or, you know, just splash it all over social media or whatever. The biggest thing is like, and some of it you're just going to have to live in, learn, like, you know, demanding and you went into this and you're like, okay, 40 grand, this is middle, you know, middle of the road.I've done my research. You know, this should be fine. But sometimes there's things that we don't know until we, until we know. Right. [00:38:00] So it's good to have like really, really clear conversations and to ask questions about contracts. And if you've got somebody who is really being a pain in the ass about the contract, like they are like, if you're trying to ask them questions and trying to clarify things and they really don't want to answer, that's not a good sign.It's probably not somebody you want to mess with. But you can just ask questions. know, what happens, you know, how many revisions do I get? Like in the case of, of the book, you know with, you know, with coaching, one of the things that I really encourage people to do, because the old, the old way that's still being practiced by.A lot of people is to say, you signed this contract. It doesn't matter if, you know, three months it's two months in or whatever you decide that this isn't right for you. You're stuck paying for this no matter what, that's bullshit, you know that these non terminable con contracts are kind of. The coaching standard.Right. And so I encourage people to [00:39:00] just ask people like, Hey, if we get three weeks in and I can see that this isn't the right fit, because sometimes you can research and really do your due diligence and everything, but you don't know what it's going to be like until you're in it. Right. Like you can't, you can't guess what it's going to be like until you're actually in it.And you know, you find out, okay, this isn't working for me, you know, have a conversation. Well, what happens if I need to break this contract, if they don't have a termination clause in their contract, just because there's no termination clause doesn't mean that you can't get out of it. Right. So there's kind of a broad, general, anything the contracts like read it.It's legalized. It's lot to slog through. It's a pain in the ass, but read it and make sure you understand what's going on and ask questions, you know? And then if it is something like a project-based thing, like what Davanon went through, make sure you understand, like, what happens if you know the finished product isn't quite finished when you get done. You know, because it is, it is weird. Like you do develop a friendship with people, [00:40:00] you know, especially in longer-term projects. And I can't imagine, you know, how close you would have gotten to somebody that you've been traveling with and all that stuff. And, you know, as, as a service provider, we have to be, we have to be conscious that this is what we do for a living.Right. So we can't let you know, just because we like somebody, we can't like work for them for free. Right. But that's why it's so important. One of the reasons why it's so important to be so clear in the contract about what you're going to do and what you're not going to do, you know, but it is, it's weird every time, every time I've ever entered a coaching relationship or somebody has entered a coaching relationship with me, which has almost always been at the end of the agreed upon contract, it still feels like a breakup.Like it feels, it feels kind of personal. You kind of have to kind of like mourn it. You know, I've been able to go back and be friends with most of my ex clients. And most of my ex coaches though But there haven't been like, I understand van. And why that kind of left. It felt like a funny taste in your mouth. De'Vannon: [00:41:00] Oh, it's a very bitter fucking tastesHeather: he's like not funny. It's better. bitch.De'Vannon: better. You know, if like I never want it. It's like, I never want to see him again. It's like, well, we got to talk about, you Heather: Right? De'Vannon: like that. So, and I want it to remind people. You know a saying that goes, the investor has the upper hand always meaning the one who's spending the money who's paying for the services.So no matter how a salesperson tries to turn it around, how you have some sort of assistant or some sort of coach, who's going to try to bully you and try to tell you what you should or shouldn't be doing this year. The one with the checkbook, with the credit card, with the funds, with the Currans okay.You call the shots. Even if you call them wrong at the end of the damn day, it's your mind me, it can't nobody make you do with your money, [00:42:00] which you don't want to. And as simple as it seems, it wasn't until I came across that in a, in a, in a, in a reading somewhere, I was reading in a writing on the internet that I found, you know, the investor has the upper hand always.I felt so liberated. Because even though I've been the one spending money on stuff, sometimes I would feel like, okay, maybe I should act like they want me to act or do what they wanna do and stuff like that. And I was like, no, bitch, I'm slang in the Dole here. You shut the fuck up. If it comes down to it, bitch.And you do what I say, you got me fucked up.Heather: Well, you know, here, here's where it's kind of like, you have to find your own line because on the one hand we have to realize when we don't know what we don't know. Right. And sometimes we don't know what we do. know, it's like, you're coming into a situation and you're like, okay, I, want to do this. And like, there's like, I may know that I need help with X, Y, and Z, but I don't even know about, you know, ABC, D E F G [00:43:00] like I w I was so I'm, so I'm such a noob.I'm so green. I don't know anything about these other things. Right. And so having a beginner mindset is generally going to help you, like the worst thing for like a coach. Like the worst thing for me is like, I sit down and people are asking me questions and then I'm giving them answers. And I'm not one of these authoritative coaches where I'm like, I know everything and, you know, it's my way or the highway.Right. But there's, there's something. Okay. So I explained it. There's tried and true things that work. And if you kind of imagine, like, if you're going down the center line of a road, those are like the tried and true marketing things. Right. And you can deviate to the right and you can deviate to the left and still have a successful business.Right. But if you deviate too far off, then you're completely off the road and it either doesn't work or it takes way too long. Right. So there's a benefit in, in kind of, you know, not, not getting too crazy with [00:44:00] stuff. Right. But you know, if I have somebody who's like, they're asking me questions and then they're telling me the answer and they won't listen to what I have to say at all.Like, that's we call that not being coachable and that doesn't work, but obviously if somebody's giving you advice and you're like, yeah, that doesn't feel good to me. You know, that's not how I wanna run my business, or that's not how I want to, you know, date or that's not how I want to lose weight, then that person's, they're not the right fit for you.And then you should find a way to like dissolve contract.De'Vannon: Right. I, I concur. And I want to go back and ask you something that I'm into earlier. Those, when the, when that girl was telling you, she was at the conference and they were able to trick the 28 people into the other seven grand, and then they wanted to guilt, shame or strong on the other two that they were, they able to manipulate the other two people or that they hold their dry.Heather: So she held her ground. I don't know what happened with the other person [00:45:00]De'Vannon: Okay.Heather: and, you know, yes. And I talk about this in the book, but we have to take responsibility. This isn't the point of this book is not so everybody can sit around and say,right. Because every single time that I bought into somebody's height, there was a part of me that was like, this is too good to be true. This is too good to be true. It's attributed review. But because there are still things in me that I'm healing, I'm still working on, you know, All of my tragedy resume.I'm still working through a lot. I wanted to believe it. And I, and I let them manipulate me. And so I have to take responsibility for my badge choices. I have to take responsibility for the fact that even though the first three group programs didn't work for me and it should have been very apparent to me that that model doesn't work for me.I signed up for two more. Right. So we have to take responsibility and hold ourselves accountable for our actions. Right. [00:46:00] And be aware that people are doing sleazy things, but you know, you can't just sit around and cry about it and be a victim. Yeah. De'Vannon: Crummy around the area. Let's see. So I just pray for people that they gain strong minds and become the strongest among us. Heather: Yeah. De'Vannon: So in your book, you talk about the difference of possible versus probable. You give these examples of how, like people on social media go, Hey, you can make $50,000 in your first month.All you have to do is this, this, this, this, this, and or whatever fucking astronomical thing. And he's not. And you say sometimes these results have happened. So you don't really throw it all the way out, but you tell us is not necessarily typical. So speak to us about how we can balance our expectations about what's possible when may have happened for some people, because apparently a lot of [00:47:00] consultants and girls like to use their best clients as their examples, but kind of leave out the fact that, you know, these results aren't actually typical.So what's possible. What's probable.Heather: So it's possible to come in and make 10 K your. it can happen. Right. But there's a lot of fuckery that goes on with that testimonial and that, that case study. And they're not telling you. Right. So for instance, one of the things that happens a lot in testimonials with these group programs is they're telling you, you know, my client came in and just two weeks after starting to work with me, she doubled her ROI.Well, they don't tell you that this, this person they were working with already had a business was already making 5k months already had a warm audience. And this person didn't take the group program. They actually were a one-to-one client. Right. So that person's results. Are not even though it's true, it doesn't apply to you if you're a new [00:48:00] entrepreneur and you're taking this group program with a hundred other people.Right. So that's something that happens a lot. And once I understood that, I was like, oh my God, I'm not an idiot. There's nothing wrong with me. Like these people are just not being transparent, so they're not lying, but they're not telling the truth either. Right. So, but I mean, even as a new entrepreneur and there's, there's a whole fuckery around what constitutes your first month in business, a lot of people don't count themselves as being in business until they start making sales.So they don't tell you about the 14 years they struggled and didn't make a dime. They're just like, Yeah.one day I started a business and 30 days later I made $35,000 and it's like, yeah, you were in business for 14 years. You fucking wire. Right. Okay. So. They're there and they're outliers. There are people that just come in and suddenly have amazing results, like sometime, cause it really just happened, but don't let people mindfuck you until you will.If that doesn't happen for you, it's just your mindset. Like it's just not probable. And so one of the things I encourage people to ask when they're on, you [00:49:00] know, calls with coaches or, you know, any kind of mentor consultant, teacher, whatever is ask them what, you know, what are the best results you've helped people to create.And you know, they're going to brag, brag, brag, brag, brag. And then you're going to say, well, what's the average results and they're not necessarily going to tell you the truth. This is where you have to really turn on your discernment. Look at their body language, listen to their voice about how they're answering things.And I also really encourage people to reach out to people that leave testimonials and just say, Hey, do you still stand by this testimonial? Okay. Sometimes people will rewrite your testimonials. Sometimes you gave it during the honeymoon phase when you really liked the person, but by the end of the program that you figured out that they were full of shit.Right? So that's kind of how you're figuring out like what's possible and what's probable. And they also should be able to tell you, like, you know, the person who got the really amazing results, how much time and money did they put in, you know, the person they get the [00:50:00] average results, what kind of time and money did they put in?Right? So you want to be asking these questions and you know, there's so much fuckery amount, mindset and mindset is a real thing, but don't get sucked into this. Well, if you just believe hard enough, it's going to work. And it's like, well, if the program does, if the program were coach or teacher consultant guru or whatever, does it deliver, you're not going to get really good results.And that's not because of your mindset, right? If you're showing up and doing the work, you should be getting results. If you're not, then there's something there's something wrong and it's not your mindset.De'Vannon: Well, the devil is in the details as they say. And that's exactly what you're talking about is paying attention to the little things. So that makes all the difference in the world.Heather: Yeah, but you know, somebody reads this book and you know, it's going to open their eyes and you're going to be able to see in people's marketing, whether they're worth following, whether they're worth even getting [00:51:00] on a call with them. And you're going to know when they, if, if they start trying to use any of the sociopathic sales techniques, you're not going to sit there and start questioning yourself.You're going to be like, wait a fucking minute. No, no, no, no, no, no. Right. And then you'll know like what questions you need to ask. Because the way that coaches are taught to sell is to not believe any room for questions. Right is to just take control of the call and just run it. And to some degree there, you know, you need to show leadership because you are in a leadership position, but it shouldn't be like, the coach is on the mountain top and you're like down here, it should be more like the coach is like a little bit further along than you, right there.They're a leader, but they're not trying to like, make you feel like you're, you know, so far, you know, it shouldn't be, it shouldn't be that much of a demand. And my words are failing me. Well they're Yeah,they're not a God. [00:52:00] They're just, there's somebody who has a little more experience and knowledge than you do. De'Vannon: absolutely. They're not a God and they're not perfect. And we. Mistakes. It is important to take people off of these pedestals. We tend to put them on. And you mentioned that it's important that your coach, if you're going to hire a coach or a consultant or a girl that they are also have, they also have their own coaching happening as well.And that's very, very, very important. If another thing a person could ask them, you know, who is your consultant? Who is your person? You say in your book, that is good for people to invest in training for well-respected certifications. Usually behind a coach or consultant named there's all these fucking acronyms that I don't know what the fuck they mean, but it makes them look really smart.Heather: Right. De'Vannon: In my head, it does make me feel like that they are probably better qualified than someone who doesn't have all the acronyms behind their name. So speak to us about the importance of [00:53:00] training, because when I was reading this, you know, I'm getting the sense that you don't want people to, just to forsake the training.I think you said earlier, somebody, you disagree with that. All you have to do is be good at something. And then you can go start consulting. Apparently that's not the case.Heather: Well, so here, here's the thing. A lot of people think that coaching is like giving advice and coaching in its purest form. Like when, when coaching first became a thing, it was almost like going to like the shaman of the village, or, you know, you see in like Hong Fu movies Where you go and you ask the spiritual master a question and he doesn't give you an answer.He gives you a question. Right? So pure coaching in its purest form is really about asking questions and helping the client figure out what they need to do. Right. But when coaching splintered into all these different niches, right. And it became business first, it was like [00:54:00] just coaching. And then there was like business coaching and life coaching, and then it's wintered into like health and relationship and all these different things.Right. So when somebody has a specialty. They're not just poaching, they should be teaching. Right. And what I found in my business coaches and a lot of business coaches, they're good coaches. They're good at asking questions and they're good consultants. I just like giving you strategies, but they're not good teachers.They don't teach you how to actually effectively implement the strategies. And so that's a problem anyway, but the coaching, like if you're going to be a health coach, you need to, you need to understand, like, if you, if you have a nutrition degree from college, you might be able to be a health coach without actually having coach training.Right. Because you have like that background, but somebody who just reads a couple of books on weight loss, and then it's like, yep, I'm a health coach. Like, or [00:55:00] I'm a weight loss coach. Like. Things that you need to understand and a good coaching schools also going to talk to you about ethics, like your coaching ethics.Like I talk a lot about ethics in business, on the sales and marketing side, but there's ethics in like, you know, don't fuck your clients. If you're a coach, right. It's a conflict of interest. Don't, you know, coach close family and friends that can, that can be a difficult kind of sticky situation, other things.So if you really are into this, because you actually want to have an impact, invest in some training and you can go on unity and Coursera and, you know, whatever and get a certification for a hundred bucks or 10 bucks. But the quality of that training, it's it's, you need to go to, you need to get some training where you can actually ask questions.You can actually be mentored a little bit in the process. It's just, it's gonna make you much better at what you do. And you'll have more confidence too, which will [00:56:00] make it easier for you to market and sell, but you'll also be able to actually produce results with your clients much quicker.De'Vannon: Where are there like general coaching schools throughout the country in the world? Or is there just different places depending on what you want to learn or does it, you know, is there anywhere you'd recommend or.Heather: So there's, I don't know about recommends. So I did coach you, coach you is, has been around it's one of the oldest coaching schools. And but there are specialty schools. That one, that one is basically for like life coaching and business coaching. But there's, I went to a sex coaching school when I was doing sex coaching there's all different kind of like splintered into all these niches kind of schools. Right. But if you want to get the ICF certification, which as far as I know is like kind of the one that's most universally known and respected in the coaching world. Go to the international coaching Federation website. And it will tell you all the schools that are actually accredited with them. And then you can go and [00:57:00] research, you know, within your niche or, or what have you.And, you know, they've got a lot of online options. I did mine on person, which I, I really liked some things about, and that I had, I was actually learning in an environment with other people, but it was 60 hours in six days. So it was pretty grueling. So, yeah, I would go to the ICF because here's the thing we're unregulated right now.I don't think we're going to stay on regulated much longer, especially because there are more and more conversations being had about the unethical business practices in the coaching industry. So I think the government's role governments are going to start to step in, and there are now schools that are offering four year degrees in coaching.And on the one hand, I think that that's pretty cool because there is a lot to learn and a lot of cool things you can know, but on the other hand, you don't need four years of college and all that college debt in order to be an effective coach, you do need some training, but you want to make sure that your grandfather had in before that change happens, because [00:58:00] you know, people that have been calling themselves coaches for years are going to really have to scramble, you know, or face fines or, you know, what are, or face going back to school for four years.De'Vannon: Right. So speaking of unscrupulous motherfuckers, you mentioned a sociopathic sales earlier, and now in this section of the book you back into the sense that this has to do with like an ends justifies the means sort of approach. I read a line there about maybe a salesperson might tell you something like, Hey, you wouldn't, you know, you would spend money to keep your kid from dying.It's the same thing. And, you know, have you heard, have you heard people say shit like that and dig deep, dig deeper into what you mean by a sociopathic sales person?Heather: So I'm not a psychologist. And so I'm just kind of using the, the term sociopathic to just mean like somebody does consciousness, right? They, they have, no, [00:59:00] they have no empathy. They have no remorse. They they have an agenda and they will, you know, their, their agenda is made to make a certain amount of money or fill their program with a certain amount of people.And they don't give a shit, they don't kill her. They don't give a shit if you're, so this is kind of where you can kind of get into qualified and unqualified leads to somebody that's a qualified lead. Is it the right starting place and has the right resources, like time and energy and focus to, and they're the right level, right?To get the good out of your program. If somebody is not at the right starting point, it doesn't matter how eager they are. They're not going to get as good a results. Right. Or somebody who like really is flat broke and like they're struggling to eat. And these people would sell them a $5,000 program in a heartbeat.They don't give a shit. Right. So that's what I mean by sociopathic sales. So it's the manipulation, the false promises. It's the shaming. And I go through all the different types of shaming, you know [01:00:00] ambition, shaming is one of the biggest ones like, oh, you, if you're not ready to invest, you know, 10 grand in my program, you must not want this business very much.Oh, oh, I see. You're not ready. You don't want to, you don't want to buy my program right now. I see this must just be a hobby, right? So it's this stuff to make you doubt yourself stuff to make you want to prove yourself to That person is one of the most common things, but that particular line the most sociopathic mentor I ever worked with actually use
INTRODUCTION: Barry Bowen is the Staff Investigator at Trinity Foundation, a nonprofit organization that investigates religious fraud, theft and excess. From 2005 to 2010 Bowen served as one of the third-party whistleblowers assisting the U.S. Senate in its investigation of six TV ministries. INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to): · Mega Church Deception· Money Mismanagement · Church Hypocrisy· The Need For Church Accountability · Lakewood Church· Hillsong Church · PPP Loan Abuse· Shell Company Defined· How Churches Take Advantage Of The LLC Business Structure· How Churches Have Become MarketplacesCONNECT WITH BARRY: Website: https://trinityfi.orgTwitter: https://twitter.com/barrybowen CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonEmail: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: · Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs · Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)o https://press.discoveryplus.com/lifestyle/discovery-announces-key-participants-featured-in-upcoming-expose-of-the-hillsong-church-controversy-hillsong-a-megachurch-exposed/ · Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levino https://leavinghillsong.podbean.com · Upwork: https://www.upwork.com· FreeUp: https://freeup.net· Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org· American Legion: https://www.legion.org INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: · PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon TRANSCRIPT: [00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: Hello? Hello. Hello everyone. And welcome back to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. God bless you. Uh, now y'all, I'm going, been watching this documentary called Hillsong a mega church exposed on the discovery plus channel in bitch. If you haven't seen. I'm telling you right now, I am letting you know, you need this fucking P in your life.I was able to land an interview with someone from that documentary. And he's my guest today. His name was Barry Bowen and he is a staff investigator at the Trinity foundation, [00:01:00] which is a non-profit, which investigates religious fraud, theft, and excess, and things like that. Now, in this episode, we're spelling some major T on Lakewood church, Hillsong church. And the general corruption, which has become the face of the church today. Ultimately these churches need to be more fucking accountable in Barry and I are here to help make that happen. Hello? Hello. Hello everyone. And welcome to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. I am your host Avanan and I have with me today, a man by the name of Barry Barry Bowen. He's a staff private investigator at Trinity foundation. And then this episode here is is going to have a very, very, maybe I should say ominous vibe to it because we've got to really be digging down into some megachurch, Phil uncovering a few things, and you know, we're opening your eyes [00:02:00] to some facts that you may not know.Now you gotta make your own draw your own conclusions and everything like that. Our aim here is to share knowledge with the world. So, Barry, how are you doing? Barry: I am doing well and ready to have a busy weekend though. De'Vannon: Mm hallelujah. Tabernacle and praise. I know that's right. And so, so right off the bat, I just want to tell everyone the website is Trinity fii.org.As always, this will go in the showy notes as I always do. I want to put that out there right now, because everyone's going to need to go to this website. I need you to go to this website. My head was fucking hurting. It was like split down the middle. Like I had been cracked in the noggin with an ax or some shit as I was reading through.The articles tab, which is where Barry's work is and all of these different, just different [00:03:00]investigative journalism. This man has done over the years and years and years. And so we're going to be uncovering a lot of things. You're coming from a 15 year history in journalism. Tell us about your background.Barry: And 2000 I started a website, Christian headlines.com. It was sorta like the Matt Drudge, the Drudge report of Christianity. Every day, I would look for articles of interest to Christians and link to them. So in the course of doing that website, I started coming across regularly articles about bad pastors people in the church committing crimes.And I knew about Trinity foundation, a watchdog organization, and started emailing them tips, news articles that I was coming across and. Eventually I reached a breaking point. One night I was flipping through the TV channels and I came across a televangelist named [00:04:00] Mike Murdoch and he was doing the standard beg of Bon or just begging for money.And he said, so EST on your credit card, and God will erase your credit card debt. I wanted to jump through the TV set and hit the guy. I did not the TV survived, but I, when that incident happened, I thought I am going to take you down. And so I started investigating the televangelists more. I would.I found out about nine nineties. These are financial documents. That nonprofits file. Now churches, synagogues, mosques are exempt from filing, but other religious organizations are required to file them. So I started digging into these kinds of financial documents eventually starting to incorporation searches to learn about who makes the key decisions in the organizations and how they [00:05:00] hide their assets.Then I learned eventually how to track their aircraft. So it's been a interesting ride. And 2005, I read an article about being Derby. He was a congressional investigator. He was the attorney that council's counsel for the Senate finance. Senate finance committee, which at the time was headed up by Senator Charles Grassley.And in this article, it talked about that Dean's RB was investigating half a dozen, half a dozen non-profits for fraud. And I was thinking, this guy shouldn't investigate the televangelists. So I, and I contacted TriNet foundation. The president at the time was only Anthony. And it's like only you need to contact this guy, send them to him, send them your Binny Han brief.So just a couple months earlier Treme foundation had challenged Benny him, the [00:06:00]televangelist, his tax exempt status do dumpster diving. They go through the trash. They found out that the IRS was questioning whether or not Benny Hinn ministry should be considered a church and a. So TriNet foundation did this report to the S to the IRS.And so it was sent that report was sent to Dean Serby, this investigator that worked for Senator Grassley and he looked at the email and he looked at the report and he told us that they would need to wrap up the current investigations before the Senate could investigate these religious non-profits.So that was 2005 November, 2007. It became matter of public knowledge. One night I think maybe two in the morning on the Senate finance committee, [00:07:00] they sent out faxes to six TV ministries, demanding their financial records. And those ministries were Benny and. Kenneth Copeland Creflo dollar Eddie long Joyce Meyer and polo white.And it was a maybe a circus the next day. When the news media found out about the Senate inquiry so Grassley was interested in, in non-profit organizations were abusing their tax exempt status. He started investigating nonprofits in 2001, and this all happened because of September 11th.The terrorist attack on the twin towers. When [00:08:00] that incident happened the American red cross set up, I believe they call it the victory fund and hundreds of millions of dollars were donated nationwide to go to the families of the victims. Well, the American red cross decided to divert some of those funds.And when that was discovered, when that was reported in the news, it led to state attorney General's investigating. It led to Congress investigating the president of American red cross resigned. It really hurt the reputation of the organization. What a lot of people don't know is when you give to a specific cause specific purpose, those are called restricted donations.And if the money is spent other than how the donor intended it can be fraud. Now it's IRS. Typically doesn't investigate this. Normally be a state attorney general that does. It could even be a [00:09:00]local district attorney, but generally they don't investigate these things. So in churches, when people grew up in churches, they'll often remember those old offering envelopes and you could check mark on it.If the money was go, you want to give to the church building fund or to missions different purposes. So if that money wasn't spent the way the donor intended that's possible fraud. And so Grassley his staff, they started to investigate, oh, 2006, there was elections. And the Democrats took control of the Senate.Grassley went from being the chairman of the Senate finance committee to being the ranking minority member. So then in 2007, 2008, Was the housing bubble burst? Well, there was bank [00:10:00]bailouts we had, how do you pay for it? That goes to the Senate finance committee, 2009, president Barack Obama and the Democrats pushed through Obamacare.Well, how are you going to pay for it? That goes to the Senate finance committee again. So this inquiry was sort of on the back burner for a long, long time. It did not turn out the way we wanted it to. When I suggested the Senate investigate, I was hoping that there would be hearings in the 1950s and in the 1960s, there were two big congressional hearings into organized crime.Some of these mafia bosses were subpoenaed to testify before Congress, and you can watch some of the old videos on YouTube. They recorded on film back in the day, but that is what we were hoping. We were hoping to bring exposure. What happens is when these televangelists [00:11:00] often people around them don't want to go public.So you don't find out certain details until they reach the courtroom when somebody is under oath. And so we thought by forcing televangelists to testify, we could, they could be grilled with the right questions. And and so they could be like asked did the church pay for your cosmetic surgery?When you flew the jet on this date to The Bahamas that was that for a personal vacation? Did you reimburse the church for use of that jet? I mean, these were the kinds of things that we wanted to bring into the public, but there were ended up being no hearings, but in the meantime, I did property searches, corporation searches of these ministries.And we forward that information to the us Senate. One of the things [00:12:00] that we discovered was a number of these people were operating businesses from inside their churches. Paula white had a company, Paula white enterprises, and that physical address was her church. So is her business paying the church rent for use of the facility?These are the kinds of question that an investigator would ask. And a lot of people don't know this, but churches are required to pay taxes on certain unrelated business income. So if a church is doing something like they have a facility that they're renting out it could be taxable income. Now the laws are weird.There are loopholes. If a building is paid off and you rent it out, It's not taxable. If you are paying or paying a note on a building and you rent it out, then it's taxable. It's [00:13:00] backwards in my opinion. But there's a form that nonprofits and churches are required to file for this kind of revenue.And it's called a nine 90 T and it discloses unrelated business income. We concluded that could have been the smoking gun that could have brought down a number of televangelists, that there are having revenue that they're not reporting. That is not taxed. There's a really gigantic story. I cannot disclose right now, but it's the investigations into this key issue and it involves hundreds of millions of dollars.De'Vannon: Now, before we thank you for that, for that rundown. And I love. I don't know, man. I love what you're doing. That the revelation of this is so heavy though, because as I was reading through your site and everything and listening to, I also want to give a a shout [00:14:00] out to our girl, Tanya Levine, down there in Australia.She's in Sydney, Australia, and she has a podcast called leaving hill song. I discovered her on the discovery plus channel documentary. It's like Hillsong exposed or something like that. It's called it's a three-part documentary. And Tanya Levine was being interviewed in the documentary. She's the author of a book, I think it's called leaving Hillsong two or something like that.And and she has a podcast called leaving heels, a song, and Barry did a three-part interview with Tanya on there. So that's how I discovered Barry. And so in Hillsong church is going through all of this drama and stuff right now. But the information is like so heavy, you know, it really, really pains me that people go to churches for inspiration and to be inspired.And, you know, we put all this trust in these preachers, any, and so many times it's like, it's not, they don't, they didn't turn out to be who we [00:15:00] thought they are, but, you know, but when I think about it, as I'm listening to you speak Joyce Meyer, proximal dollar, why would I assume that there wouldn't be money mismanagement?You didn't say that there is, but I'm like w we, we just afford a certain level of trust of these people because we believe they're supposed to be, we haven't looked into the books. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes. We just assume because they are a preacher that they're doing shit. Right.And that's not necessarily the case. Barry: Well, in the case of the six TV ministries that the Senate tried to investigate none of them filed a form 990 and this financial disclosure document. You can obtain them at websites like GuideStar pro-public as a nonprofit search page and other places these [00:16:00] documents are a matter of public record.So a donor to one of these organizations can look and see where the money's going. And they, I believe in and donor responsibility. I believe that donors that regularly give to an organization, they should check it out, make sure that money's being properly spent. I mean, I understand that you're giving $20 a one-time donation or organization.You don't have to do a lot of research into it, but if you're like giving to a church for a year after year after year and involves thousands of dollars, you really should check them. So these, these nine nineties on the very first page, it includes total revenue, total expenses it'll report. If they have unrelated business income at a report, the number of total number of board members and it'll report the total number of independent board members.And that's really critical. Oh, wait, [00:17:00] one more thing. There's a couple of different kinds of nine nineties. There's a nine 90 N, which is called a postcard nine 90 for organizations that have only a small amount of revenue. I forget the amount, if it's 50,000 or a hundred thousand dollars or less, that you, you could file the, the postcard nine 90, then there's a nine 90 easy.I think it's up to $250,000 revenue, but I have to verify that you, you can file a nine 90 Z and then of course, the nine 90 regular nine 90. So we look at those documents in the nine 90 also includes a statement of revenue page. So it explains what were the revenues coming from? Is it from like general contributions?Is it from a related organization? Things like that investment income, rental income there is a statement of expenses page. So it'll it'll list things like legal [00:18:00] expenses. So if you see a large amount of legal expenses, you know, that the organization may be going through litigation, maybe they're suing someone or they're fighting a lawsuit.Then there is travel expenses, if that's really high and they may have. So those are some of the things that stand out on, I think it's page four. It there's a, a yes or no question if the organization has foreign bank or financial accounts. And then if they answer yes, the line below they list what country it's in, and sometimes they'll use a country code, or sometimes I'll write out the country.So if you see Cayman islands, right, there's like a red flag. Are they involved in off shore money laundering? Those kinds of questions come up occasionally. But some of the things I look for it lists related organizations that again, that those [00:19:00] money can be moved back and forth through relater organizations, shell companies, limited liability companies.And so you mentioned the whole song podcast. One of the things that I investigated heal song was their use of limited liability companies. De'Vannon: Wait, wait, sorry to cut you off with that. We want it to I did mention the LLC and I do want to get, get to that, but I want to touch on Lakewood church first because that's like like what is like a pet peeve of mine and everything like that.I love your passion for what you're doing and I can see why. I can see why you have like a jewel in your eyes and your voice and everything. And, you know I'm happy you came across the whole Murdoch thing all those years ago that sets you on this course because who knew that such a time, like this would come where we have all of this [00:20:00] church fuckery happening.So we're going to, we are going to get on Hillsong in just a second, but I wanted to just start with Lakewood church first, because this is near and dear to my heart because I talk about. Quite often in extensively in my memoir about how I used to be a big volunteer there. Then I was dismissed fired from volunteering because I'm not straight.And so this interview is not really focusing on the way Lakewood dehumanizes people behind the scenes and stuff like that. This is to, this is more like a a financially corrupt based show, what we're talking about today. But I liked to talk about Lakewood in this aspect. I really want to start with them because a lot of churches of various sizes look to Lakewood since they're the largest church in the country.So when I've attended other churches before the preachers would always talk about Joel Olsteen and how they want to be like. And so the things that he's doing, there are [00:21:00] things that other churches will mimic. You know, if you go to different churches, they'll notice a practice at church X churches, each church, Jay, and then they'll incorporate it into their own corporation.And so so I really wanted to kind of dissect some of the things about Lakewood before we get into Hillsong. And I think it's a very cute correlation because, you know, Joel and Brian Houston, Brian Houston, the whale, I kind of the pastor hill song, he had to step down. There's a whole scandal going on over there.You know, they were always good buddies, you know they would send Darlene check the worship leader from Hillsong over the Lakewood. And then they within the Cindy Cruz red cliff, the worship leader at Lakewood over to Hillsong and then Joel and Brian, I think I saw them on a telecast together. So they're all buddy, buddy and shit.And so. So I wanted to start with Lakewood and segue with the Hillsong because of the way they liked to hold those two churches, like the whole hands and go skipping down the Lilly brushes and everything like that while they run over people [00:22:00] along the way. And so so in, so, so Lakewood, the way they let's talk about that, the way they filed their, their board of directors.So many churches have this whole thing that, you know, you would think, how shall I say you would think that there's a whole like, okay. So when I was a member of the university Presbyterian church here in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, over at LSU, it was the most transparent church have ever been to. You can see where all the money's going.They have this thing called the session that votes on things. And then when it's major decisions, actually the whole congregation can get together and vote. And this is not the case in these large churches. Their filings read things like the corporations you'll have no members in the case of Lakewood.So just to talk about fat. So they originally were [00:23:00] incorporated in 1959, I believe it was. So just bring this up to present and talk about this whole, the way these boards are, or, and then let's get very granular with how it is currently at Lakewood.Barry: Like you said the church was Lakewood church was founded in 1959.It was originally a Southern Methodist church. And eventually they amended their articles of incorporation so that the church became an independent nondenominational church. They changed the name of it. I forget what the original name was eventually and. 2006. When they amended the articles of incorporation, it included this language.This is amendment or article number two, the corporation hereby elects to have a sole member for the limited purposes and with only the [00:24:00] duties, right. And powers set out in the corporation's bylaws in the ordinary course of business, any action that would otherwise require a vote of members requires only a vote of the board of directors and no meeting or vote of members is required all rights that otherwise would vest in the members vest and the direct and the directors.So there's different forms of church governance. Originally it seems, it looks like the church had maybe A congregational model where the members would vote, vote on how the money was spent. I would have to go back and look at the original articles of corporation to verify that, but that was a typically how most Southern Baptist churches were started, were congregational.Some churches are hierarchal, like for example, the Catholic church, you have a Pope [00:25:00] then archbishops then bishops blow them. And so the decisions are made top down. But started with one person. Sometimes there's organizations where one person makes all decisions and that's called a corporation sole.There is he'll when not Hillsong. There is this approach that Lakewood church takes. I like to call it the board of directors model. They. Has specific people that make the key decisions. And in this case, they are almost all family members. The one exception at Lakewood church is the treasurer.Noel Keller is the only non O'Steen family member. That's on the board of directors. And this is a really critical issue. For example just say that the board of [00:26:00] directors were to vote on the salaries, approving the salaries of the people on the board. You don't have any independent board members, so you would have possibly a family member voting on someone else's pay.I mean, Lisa, Lisa comes as Joel Osteen's sister, her and her husband are on the board. Joel and Victoria are on the board. And then Noel killer. So on a nine 90 form for, to get churches are not required to file these, but on a 990, I think it's schedule J or the schedule right after that. There's this place where it indicates how the compensation is decided for key people.And it you'll look in to see if there's a box check mark for independent [00:27:00] compensation committee, a compensation consultant. So in some of the large churches a person can legally get paid a lot of money. If you bring in a compensation consultant, they perform a study. They the board reviews their study.Then the person that's going to be voted on leaves the room. And then they vote on that person's compensation and report it and the recording and the board notes. That's how to legally get paid a huge amount of money at a nonprofit, not just churches, but all nonprofits. The IRS has really shot themselves in the foot by not properly defining excessive compensation years ago, the NFL was a nonprofit organization and Roger Goodell you know, however you pronounce his name.He was paid like over $30 million a year. And as a nonprofit, that's just insane. [00:28:00] But and he was able to do that because they would compare his compensation with that other CEOs, other not non-profits. So you know, like what church church is governance model. You have this family. And who is going to hold the family responsible.That is why it's very critical to have an independent board of directors. De'Vannon: You know, when you, when you mentioned how the, how the salaries that the church has mimic that of the secular world, it just, it really strikes a bitter chord within me because it's, it just echoes back to how, when it's convenient, the church wants to be like the world with.When they want to [00:29:00] cast judgment, then it's not okay to be like the world. So we don't want you to drink alcohol or do drugs or fuck outside of marriage because that's what they do over in the world. But I'll take that, that, that that I've seen salary, you know, like they have over in the world because, you know, we need a model to go by.Right. So might as well pull it from the world. And so, and so, yeah, you can tell this really pisses me off because you know, we sat there and we'd give all this money to these churches and, you know, just blindly, but we don't have any control or any power over what the fuck happens and why, why would anybody knowingly want to do that?And this is different. Okay. So like if you're working for somebody at a job. They're paying you to be there. Okay. In exchange for your time, that company has a board of directors and they don't give a fuck about what you think either, unless you have stock in the company and then they may not [00:30:00] ask you them, but at least you going to church, you're not being paid to come there.You're paying them in the decision that they make affect so much stuff. So here in the case of Lakewood, you've got Joe Victoria, Kevin, I think Paul's brother might be on the, on the damn board to making all the decisions. Okay. In the way the language is written, they're not, they don't give a fuck about what any of the members have to say.They want all the members to come there and the people around the world to send money. And then this, this group of five or whatever are going to make all the decisions and just, just the end of it. And then your opinion doesn't matter. So it's left up to the people to decide whether this is the sort of thing that they're okay with.We're not necessarily whether it's good or bad, it's up to you. But I didn't know this. When I was a member of Lakewood church, I did notice that they would make decisions like they would send, say like Paul, cause he's a doctor medical [00:31:00] doctor on missions trips to Africa, say with his family. And I would be thinking, well, I would have loved to have gone on that missions trip.No one asked me if I could go. It was just the thing that was decided. Nobody said, Hey members, is it okay if we spend church funds to send him and his family on this missions trip, it was just done. And so, and that's just the way it is. And a lot of these churches, like you give us the money because we're holy and we hear from heaven and everything like that better than you do.And then we're going to make all of these decisions. I was once. Okay. With that. There's no way I would be okay with that again. Barry: Yes, maybe either. My dad was a Baptist minister, so I grew up in the church and the church that I attended it was a congregational governance model. One Wednesday night, a month, there'd be a church business meeting.And there'll be a church financial statement. So you can see where the, how much money came in and where it was spent. [00:32:00] And members would vote each year to approve the budget. My dad's salary was disclosed to the public. No, my dad was uncomfortable with that, but he knew that the church needed to be transparent.And my dad was not getting rich from being a minister in a church, but a lot of people you don't, when you read the Bible, you don't necessarily see a congregation. Governance model. So you have some people say this is not biblical as if just because something may not be listed in the Bible doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong.So I think God can work through all kinds of different governance models, but I I'm convinced that you need transparency and accountability. And if you lack neither, you're creating an environment where [00:33:00] fraud can abound, De'Vannon: right? So let me take this further with Lakewood. So in your, on your website, you have an article it's called million dollar homes, become status symbols of televangelists and past.So on the one hand and you get very granular, you show 'em like satellite imagery of people's houses. You have Joel and Victoria's house in there. You have a couple of other ministers house on there and you say how much it's worth, you know, so on and so forth. Now, in the case of Joe, you know, you also mentioned that they have another house in California.I found that interesting that you, you, you, you had to use an informant to find this information out. I don't know why it would be such clandestine information. Why do you think he wouldn't want people to know? He has another million dollar home somewhere? Barry: People have multiple reasons for hiding their [00:34:00] address.So in the state of Texas Texas has higher property taxes than a lot of states. I believe because Texas does not have a a state income tax. But in the state of Texas each county has a, what's called a an appraisal district. So in Houston, Houston is in Harris county. So you can go to that website, Harris county, appraisal district, and you can put in a person's name or the name of a business, and you can look up their property.In the case of people who are celebrities, people that have had death threats a lot of politicians have their information redacted, so you can't find them by searching my name. Okay. So there are other methods you have to use [00:35:00] to find their address. I'm not going to go into all that. So I don't want to clue in the televangelists to some of our investigative techniques, but so.And Harris county. There is a property that, where Joel Osteen owns it. There's another one there that I'm not sure if he owns it or not. We didn't go too into detail and our article, but there's a house. And again, I don't know who lives there. It may be a sister. It may be his mom. I don't know if he owns it and runs it out there.I think he has another house, but I'm not certain about it. But they were previously in shell companies. They registered them there and this is a way of trying to have more privacy. I get that there are certain people that [00:36:00] don't want people driving by their house trying to find them they want privacy.I get that. But It can be a technique use for more sinister purposes and we'll get that to that later. I'm. Sure. So we had an informant tell us that Joel had a house in California, and once we found out that, and we knew that it was not far from the Pacific ocean, I was on a tear. I was going through realtor websites, looking at recently sold houses that were expensive.Try and find our, this is a gated community who bought it or was it a registered to a shell company? Oh, it was just crazy, but we did not have the right time period. He had lived in a house longer than we suspected, so I missed it in my research [00:37:00] eventually an informant, let us know where it was, but The house.There was a real estate website that estimated it to be worth 5 million. But should a pastor live in these kinds of expensive homes and expenses? The mansion's, there's a Bible verse where Jesus said not to lay up treasures for yourselves here on earth, but to store that up in heaven. And when you've got a televangelist, maybe spending over $10 million on a couple of homes, he maybe could have spent that money a lot more frugally and helped people with it.I think televangelists that are acquiring massive wealth are being disobedient descriptive. One of the [00:38:00] craziest cases I've investigated is that a guy named David Sarillo, he is president of the inspirational network many years ago, that was PTL, which was a TV network that Jim baker started after Jim baker scandals.It changed which ownership, but David Cirillo and 12 years was compensated $41 million. Yeah. Inspirational network is a non-profit organization. And so I would love to say the IRS revoked the tax exempt status of his organization. I really would. I'm hoping that one day they do De'Vannon: so I don't. So I hear what you're saying about how you don't feel like creatures.Have a lot of money. I, I kind of agree with it. I kind of don't. So like [00:39:00] if they, if they take it like a salary from the church, I think I agree with you. Like what you're saying. If they make their money separately, like Joel and Victoria sing too, if they want to go buy expensive shit. I don't feel like that it is for me to control what they spend their money on.But a lot of people agree with your perspective though, because the optics of it looks, it looks bad to a lot of people. They just, a lot of people just can not get past the fact that the preacher lives, that sort of lifestyle in there seeing, you know, rubbing elbows with celebrities and stars and everything like that.It's like, okay, what is the difference? So I don't think you're wrong for thinking that way, but you know, but speaking of speaking of optics though, and I do want to remind people just how much church, a lot, like Lakewood is a family business, you know, When I was there filming my docu-series and everything like that, which is about to come up on my website Texas roads and jesus.com, that [00:40:00] website I noticed that night, they now have pictures of like Joel and Victoria and their children, you know, Jonathan, you know, you know, plastered all over the, all over the building inside, you know, just reminding you in my opinion of whose fucking house it is, you know, and everything like that.And so I get, it's a generational thing you had, I think it was John O'Steen who handed the reigns to Joel and clearly they intended the handed to, to, to, to Joe's son, the Jonathan I'm like, okay, It just, it just hit me. So like, like a slap in the face though. I'm like, okay. So when they stand on the stage, they're like, okay, you are Lakewood.They had the same going for awhile. Hashtag I am Lakewood, many companies do that. I am Verizon. I am the gap, whatever you want to say to the mindfuck people to make, make them feel like they are part of your organization when really they're kind of not because they're bankrolling your organization. You know, I am the gap blow.You're saying that because you want [00:41:00] me to keep paying and buying your clothes. And so so how am I part of the Lakewood family, if I'm paying money in ties and offerings, but you only got five family members making all the damn decisions, you know, I'm a part of the family, but my opinion doesn't count.And again, this isn't just Lakewood. You have a lot of churches, you know, run this way. This here is just like probably the highest example in the land. So speaking of optics though, I wanted to touch on their whole PPP loan. Thing scandal issues that they had. Because when I heard that, that really, really, really pissed me off because I believe that just because you can doesn't mean you should, and God knows our government is fucking corrupt.So the government allowed churches that do not pay taxes to get money because of the coronavirus. My thing was, you don't have any money invested [00:42:00] into the tax pot because you don't fucking pay taxes. That's the one, secondly, all of y'all are rich enough. And I think the loan was still like five, four or five, 6 million.I'm all like y'all got this money. You are not broke even if, even if Joel inventory or somebody, if it wasn't me. And I was. To avoid the appearance of evil. Like the Bible says I would not have taken money from the government. If I was the leader of a church, when I already could have covered that personally, just to not risk turning people away from Christ, somebody may have been discouraged in their faith because the richest church in the country took a loan from the government.When you had small businesses, like I have small businesses that couldn't get a fucking PPP loan and needed it. Yet. You have a church where you have millionaires, who could have bankrolled that who chose not to talk about that. Barry: [00:43:00] And early 20, 20, I think it was February or March. The national lockdown happened for a couple of weeks.And then after that various cities and states started also doing some lock Downing themselves. So the paycheck protection program PPP that was designed so that small businesses and nonprofits could maintain so they could retain their employees. That was the key idea behind, behind the paycheck protection program.And after it was instituted, it was a failure in how it was set up. There was not proper screening. There's been a massive amount of fraud in the program, and these were forgivable loans. So w or had the potential to be forgiven. So the S the small [00:44:00] business administration working with a bunch of financial institutions provided these loans.The churches and ministries would follow an application. And in my own research that basically there were two A lot of them got loans in 2020 and 2021. So over a hundred million dollars ended up going to churches with broadcast ministries things like that. So Lakewood, they got alone.And then because of the bad media coverage, they paid it back. And they were not the only one when journalists filed a foyer request. That means freedom of information act when they filed those to get the list of recipients [00:45:00] then it became. And so you could go to I think it was a small business administration website to look them up.Then ProPublica created a PPP search page, which you could find it with a search engine and you could type in names of ministries at your hearing office and see if they got money. So we've got a trade foundation. We got contacted by insight edition. Because some journalists were looking at religious organizations and they're curious about televangelists getting them well, when the, when I found out that that we could search the list of PPP recipients, I went wild on those searches.I did probably 200 searches in a one week. And so we, we found out that word of God fellowship. That's that business name for Daystar television network. They got it. Well, what's crazy about it [00:46:00] was right after they got their PPP loan. They purchased a jet. So I'm inside edition. Want to do an expo say on that.And they contacted they star Marcus lamb for an interview and he declined. So then they knew they're going to get him. It would be a hostile interview, unwanted. So a stakeout interview. So we'd try to find out when and where he would be. And so that involves surveillance. Oh yes. But investigate them times.So we found out that he was going to be at a golf course. They had a golf tournament, Daystar golf tournament. So they stars camera crew. They were the producer, Lisa Guerrero. And the camera may, we're all in this van. And my boss and I were in other cars uh, monitoring friend Marcus would drive up to the golf course.And we missed him. He was in a black [00:47:00] sports car when normally he wasn't in that vehicle. And so we did not catch him. They saw him when he got out of the vehicle in the parking lot, they ran over, pulled out their camera and she got her interview estimate a couple of questions before he entered the country club.And so that was fun doing that exposition, the investigation, De'Vannon: oh my God, Jesus Christ. video1491811222: As De'Vannon: I pray for people who are confused religiously, who've looked at all of these things happen and I pray that they find it's like spiritual peace because it's very, very upsetting the people to. Now you and I are on the same page.I love me some good investigative journalism. You know, let's find the damn scandal in in [00:48:00]everything like that. Let's find the damn scandal let's get after and let's dig into it. But there are people who are really like, like I was angry, say over like what Lakewood did with, there are people who were probably like devastated and broken hearted and probably crying somewhere because they're idle, you know, Joel Olsteen, you know, you know, allow something like this to happen.You know, I preach a lot of spiritual independence. I want people to be able to go to God for themselves, whether without a church, you know, and to put pastors in their place, which is beneath the God, do you know? Which sometimes a lot of times we'll make idols out of pastors before we realize it.So So, so, so, so my heart, you know, in my soul and my, and my love and love really goes out to people who feel confused and heartbroken. And like, they may not want to believe in God because of what these people have done. But remember Joe, you know, Marcus lamb over at bay [00:49:00] star, you know, and everybody in Joni lamb and everybody, and, you know, Brian Houston and everybody, these are just people y'all and like people, they gonna fuck up.Now, what you're not going to get from most preachers is an apology or an admission of guilt. Most of them do not tend to do that. That's just the way they are. And so, but remember they are human. They are not the Lord and whatever it is that they do, they did that. Every word that comes out of their mouth is not going to be divided.So you got to learn how to go to God for yourself and remember that no matter what these people do, don't let that shake up your faith. Like don't, don't, don't let them cause you to miss heaven and a peaceful life. So don't be like, well, God, I'm not gonna fuck with you because of what Joel did or what, because Creflo dollar did they stole from the church out?Could they, you know, I did that when I got kicked out of Lakewood for not being straight and it took me five or six years before I was reconciled to God because I was not, I wasn't spiritually mature and I don't want to see anybody else [00:50:00] fall into having a gap in their spiritual life because of what a church did now, before we get into Hillsong, which is next, I want you to just tell people what a shell corporation is.Barry: Shell company is a company to it may not have any business purpose. It's just to hold an asset. So in the case of some of these televangelists we investigate, they will have a shell company that owns a jet. And so if you type in, if you go to the FAA flight registry, that's the federal aviation administration, there's a search page and you can type in the names of churches and ministries.And if you were to type in world air H E I R you'll find, I believe [00:51:00] two jets and that company is headed up by Creflo dollar. So he has two aircraft and a shell company.De'Vannon: So why not put those aircraft? I hear it, you know, under the church's name because, so are they his, or they belong to the church? Barry: I am not clear on it. Some cases the church or ministry can own the, the shell company. It can be a related entity and typically in a 990, they will list related organizations at the very end.But again, if a church is not disclosing and as a shell company, you wouldn't know about it years ago, ed young, Jr. He is the pastor of fellowship church in grapevine, Texas. His [00:52:00] he had a jet registered to a shell company and I don't even remember the name of it. It was a really obscure name. It's not something that you'd think of and just type in a search engine from what I remember.But so I mean, some of them, they don't want their donors to know that they live extravagantly, that they have a jet. That's just something. If the members know it, they may not be as inclined to get. De'Vannon: Well, I'm thankful for your website, because as I said, at the beginning of this interview, we have our opinions, but what I want the world to do is to make your own opinion.You know, you've got to do your own research, pray about it and see, and stop going to these churches. Does it giving them blind trust? No matter how cute they are, how flashy the worship is, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If that let them hit. And the ties you, you know, and do your research and have your head in the game.So he'll song that is going to be the last thing we're going to talk about during this interview. We're going to have to [00:53:00] have you back on again. I love how the conversation has gone. I love how so full of knowledge you are and how that sparked his lights up in you. I believe Sarah, you are assuming you identify, you know, Sri.I hate to, I don't like to use a lot of servers and ma'am sometimes they slip out, but you know, I feel like you are. Doing exactly what you were put on this earth to do like your energy, you feel perfectly centered, balanced, and aligned. And would you agree? Barry: There's a verse in Ephesians that I'm going to paraphrase.It sent, I believe it's, five about exposing sin, bring it to the light and its true nature is revealed. I believe this verse justifies Christian investigative reporting. And I believe that Christian journalists, Christian media can play a powerful role in exposing sin in Christianity and calling for [00:54:00]greater transparency and accountability that accountability.So it really is a mission and a mission from God to expose this kind of fraud that send the body of Christ and extravagant lifestyles and other. De'Vannon: And you have to be very, very strong. The did your line of work because you know, people like that, a very rich and powerful, and they're not accustomed to being accountable.Nobody around them is challenging them or anything like that in that used to being told no. So you have a lot of forces working against you, you know, and to get up, you know, and to go to work every day and a dude with a smile on your face, you know, with the, with the grace that you have led to me know that God is with you because.I know another thing, a lot of high circles, you are not celebrated, you know, you serve, I make, can I call you, sir? Is that appropriately? [00:55:00] You know, you, sir are not celebrated a lot of the enemy, right. As am I, but you know what I'm, I want to be a friend of, you know, the people who don't have the people who are trying to figure it out.Do you know? And things like that, you know, I've been homeless before. I've been to jail a bunch of times I got felonies and stuff like that, you know, in a lot of that happened because I didn't have knowledge and I'm not going to let that happen to someone else. And neither are you. Everything you're doing is about knowledge and empowering the individual to know what they're getting themselves into.So Hillsong church now y'all this year, the scandal that is ongoing Hillsong church. I didn't know this till I saw that documentary. They got all these campuses worldwide. I didn't know. I knew about the campus in Austria. But I didn't know about all of this other shit they got going on. So this is evolving.So tell us Barry about their limited liability corporation setup. Barry: Well [00:56:00] in the course of investigations, when a church becomes really popular there, my curiosity guides me. And so when a church gets really popular, I'll just take a quick look at them just to see what's up. Do they have related companies?Things like that, do they have they're on an aircraft? So, I mean, I'll go to the FAA website, looking for Hillsong aircraft, never found any, as far as I know, they don't own any. They do use charter aircraft. There's a company in Australia. They use, I don't remember the name, but in the case of Hillsong well let me back up.There's a company called visit pedia and Busia PDF is a business. Corporations search site, you can find out a company, if they're registered in different states, things like that. And you can search by name of company, name of officers and [00:57:00] address. And so visit PDF is a key website in my investigative arsenal when I do investigations.So I go there and type in Hillsong. And I discover that they are red. They've got a number of listings in Virginia, for example, Virginia companies. Well then from there, I go to the Virginia secretary of state website and it was puzzling to me because I discovered a number of their churches were registered as limited liability companies.Now, what is a big trend in business? Is that companies will separate assets and they'll use limited liability companies to protect those assets. There's less people to suit that way. For example, if you have a church with a business of, [00:58:00] with a, with a a board of directors, like Lakewood church, if you Sue the church, you could end up suing all six board members.In the case of suing a Hillsong church in the U S like Hillsong NYC, LLC, that's seal you'll saw in New York city, you may have one or two managers listed. They don't have a full board of directors. And so it limits how many people get sued. Also it limits how many people have accountant can provide accountability.If you've got one manager who are they accountable to? It's a big. So I actually asked a person that worked for the IRS. If this was legal. I was curious and he said, yes, it is. He wish it wasn't. But a lot of churches are creating shell companies. These limited [00:59:00] liability companies to hold the asset of the building.So their property will be put in an LLC. So if the church is sued, if they have a judgment against the church, then you don't have to lose all their assets. Just the one that was involved in the the legal issue. So this has become a standard practice. So in, in the course of investigating were do two things well, more than that, but two of the big things is we're trying to follow the power.I'm trying to follow the money, follow the power. I mean, by that. Find out, identify who the key decision makers are. So that's why you look for a board of directors and that's, and for incorporated organizations for LLCs, they have articles of organization, not incorporation, they're not a corporation and it will list their [01:00:00] typically list, their manager on these documents.So then after we find out, identify their, their company or organization names, then we can dig even deeper into property searches to find assets. And in the state of Arizona, I did a search and I found a large number of property listings and P H X holdings is a company that Hillsong set up and, and Maricopa county Arizona.To hold property. And so when you see a large number of property listings, it can be a little misleading. So some of these are multiple lots property, lots that make up a parking lot, multiple lots to make up a large building. They even have some vacant lots. [01:01:00] There, there are no pro no buildings on them for maybe future expansion, but they have 30, I think, 31 listings and or did at one time in Maricopa county.So, and that was for two of their large churches also. That was where Hillsong college was. I think they're going to be moving it to California in the future, but so those are some of the things that I discovered in the course of examining Hillsong Hillsong is a very. Personality driven church.It's famous for its worship teams. They have multiple Hillsong worship teams. One's Hillsong United and there's Hillsong young and free. They've sold, I believe over 20 million albums worldwide. So that they're well-known for their worship songs that are sung in a lot of churches and are played on Christian radio.[01:02:00] But in the United States Carl Lentz was pastor of Hillsong NYC in New York city and he became like a celebrity. He developed relationships with actors, singers people like Justin Bieber and got a lot of media attention for it. And people would flock to their churches. It'd be like going to a rock concert.There was a sex scandal there. He had an affair cheated on his wife was fired. We believe he's being rehabilitated. We think he's going to be possibly leading a church in Florida and soon that spelt created with arc association of related churches. There's nothing been disclosed yet, as far as I know, but that's what [01:03:00] it looks like.But Hillsong was founded in Australia. I believe you previously mentioned that. Frank Houston, the father of Brian Houston was involved in the assemblies of God. A well-known leader in that denomination in Australia and Brian started an independent church that he left the assemblies of God.And this is a common thing. When you leave certain denominations, you can have less accountability. Brian's dad, Frank sexually abused some boys, and this has become a big scandal. So, and certain for certain crimes, a [01:04:00] pastor as called a mandatory reporter. If they learn of specific crimes, they're reported, they're required to report them to law enforcement.And that would be, if you learn about a murder or you learn about certain sex crimes you have to report it and he failed to report his own. I mean, I would be the first admit that would be very difficult, but it's the right thing to do. And because he failed to do it it ended up being litigation and finally an investigation.And so we're waiting to see what the sentence will be. He could serve jail time and Australia for that. When you look at Virginia, the secretary of state website, and when you look in some of the other websites, you'll notice that Hillsong had a number of companies and we're going back to what we've mentioned earlier.They have a Hillsong music as one of their companies. [01:05:00] They had a Hillsong channel was, was that a TV channel right now. It's I don't think it's on cable anywhere, or maybe you have, it is it's maybe just an Australia. They have a streaming channel online, but they, they were previously in a relationship with TBN and that ended TBN handled the, the broadcast cable infrastructure for Hillsong channel and that's gone away heal song.There there's so much money that can be made from this and it can be traced. Some of these decisions can be traced to Carl Lentz. His dad Stephen Lintz was an attorney he worked for on pat Robertson many years ago. He taught various courses classes at Regent university [01:06:00] and he wrote a book, the business of church.And in this church, he invited. Pastors on issues like copyright and how to protect assets, the limited liability companies. And so, I mean, he advises pastors that if you can actually own the copyright for your sermons, your intellectual property, and then license it to the church. So I mean the church that I grew up in, if somebody wanted to buy a copy of a sermon years ago, they could get an on a cassette tape or CD for a dollar or two.I mean, the church wasn't interested in making money from it. It would just cover their costs. But now they're, they're, they're doing licensing of this content. They can put it on a website behind a paywall, for example, and you can become a subscriber to listen to their sermons. Now, some [01:07:00]churches put it up there for.Some people post to YouTube, et cetera, but sometimes they'll turn their sermon series into a book that can have a ghost writer, listen to the sermons and write a book. So there's this business. And so in the course of Hillsong, they're mimicking the business world. It's like the church is becoming a business and there there's some interesting Bible verses about this.And second Peter chapter two, verse three Peter's talking about false teachers that would be in the church. And he said that if you read this in the king James version, it says that these teachers, they will make merchandise of you. They have turned the church into a market. It's no different than when Jesus entered the temple many years ago and threw out the money [01:08:00] changers.So what happened in the temple? They would do sacrifices. And if you didn't have a sacrifice, if you traveled to Jerusalem from far away, you may not have been able to bring an animal to sacrifice. So you'd buy one. So they were selling sheep at the temple. They turned it into a marketplace and Jesus throughout the money changers.So if you read that same verse second, Peter two verse three, and like the new living translation, it says something like this in their greed, they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. It's one of my favorite verses about religious frog. De'Vannon: You ain't lying. And you know, the thing is, you know, while they're trying to.Judge, you know, my community for not being straight, calling us all pedophiles and stuff like that. You know, they themselves are found within these pages, in my opinion, much more clear verbiage [01:09:00] and wording than what they try to use to condemn me because I don't identify as straight. I heard what you said about how they get a ghost writer to listen to their sermons and write a book.I'm so glad you said that because I had read one of Joel hostings book. When I was still a member there and I was like, I read through it. And I was like, gosh, I got a sworn. I heard this like in a sermon before. And you know, and so I knew that what the kids, so there's like a system. Okay. So if you write a different sermon most weeks, what, most weeks out of the year, that that could be how they keep pooping out these books again.And again, and again, every time you write a little sermon, you put them together, you got another book, another best seller. So then you're not necessarily getting totally fresh content with, with each of these books. It's just got a different cover on it. A few little shallow ass personal stories that make it feel like they're being authentic and vulnerable [01:10:00] with you.And really they're not. And and shit like that. So you just validated me. I'm like, I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it.So, okay, so we're going to end this first interview here, people out there listening, you know, you've heard what Barry and I've had to say, and this is only the beginning. We're going to do this again. You can go over to the leaving hill song podcasts with Tanya Levine and listen to more of what Barry has to say.You can also go to the discovery plus app or discovery channel plus app. However the fuck you say it and find the Hillsong documentary there. And that, that motherfuck is full of some spicy hot tea. I was clutching my pearls, rip them off, had to go buy a new set and come back again. I watched all three of those one hour episodes twice, and I'm going to watch them again [01:11:00] because I've got some interviews coming up with some people from off the documentary that I was fortunate enough to land.So Mary, thank you so much for coming on this first time. You're you already well-traveled of knowledge like. You're a river, a river like deep well of information. I love how invested you are in what you do. And you have true joy for your calling. And not a lot of people can say that. Do you have any last words for the world today?Barry: Can't think of anythingDe'Vannon: so you don't have to because it will be talking again. So y'all his name is Barry Bowen. You want me to tell them your Twitter handle or that you can? Okay. So he's on Twitter. He's simply at Berry Bowen. He likes to keep things, you know, easiest, simple. Now the website, we can get all the tea and the information is a Trinity F I bad org, which stands for Trinity foundation [01:12:00]international for short.So just tryna FII that org, it will all go into showing notes of blessings upon you all. Thank you, Barry. And everyone listen out for the second installment of this conversation. Thank you for coming on the show today.Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and resources at sex, drugs, and jesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.My name is De'Vannon and it's been wonderful being your host today and just remember that everything is going to be all right.
With so much hate going on in the world today, it seems that a lot of people forget to use love to heal. Some use religion as a guideline but some can be restrictive. But how does love work for you and I? On this episode we talk to author Juan Lee, author of "Love Made Simple," about making love simple. Juan Lee will tell us why most religions feel restrictive when it comes to the message of love and how to separate the message from the practice. Juan Lee will tell us why most religions feel restrictive when it comes to the message of love and how to separate the message from the practice. Follow Juan Lee: Website: www.juanleetheauthor.com Facebook: @Juanleeauthor Instagram: @Juanleeauthor Twitter: @Lovemadesimple Linkedin: Juan Lee Clubhouse: Juan Lee
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INTRODUCTION: Branch Isole (www.Manaopublishing.com) is back! This man has become a resident guest here and we love having him on our show! Today we are talking about spiritual independence, breaking free from dependency on churches and I even show you how to take Communion/Eucharist at home!!! He, like me, is a former drug dealer, he's been to jail, he's been homeless, and like myself he understands his mission is to do all he can to help others now that he's been given a second chance. Branch is a poet, a storyteller and the author of 22 books! Branch was born in Osaka, Japan (my favorite country) and has the traveled the world extensively! Branch graduated from Texas State Univ. B.S.Ed., did post graduate work at the University of Houston, M.Ed Adm., and holds an Oxford M.A. Theology degree from Trinity Bible College and Seminary. Branch shares how strength of choice can change consequences and this man is known worldwide for his contemporary short story prose that reveals emotions and issues often experienced, but not always voiced. Author of twenty-two books Branch Isole shares "how and why" strength of choice can change consequences. He's known worldwide for contemporary short stories revealing issues and emotions often experienced, but not always voiced. Storytelling is either about 'what has been' or 'what can be.' The story of "what can be" encourages us to embrace the duality of what is and more importantly, what is possible. Podcast program audiences tune-in to learn if your guest can help fulfill their aspirations and ambitions. My efforts are to help you produce a show with takeaways that benefit your listeners. The topics I share impart elements for personal, career and/or spiritual self-reflection. I believe we will give your audience a show they'll receive, use, and thank you for.I share edifying and entertaining self-development topics offering information and takeaway steps listeners can use after hearing our episode. These topical conversation starters provide audiences with identifiable grounding and growth elements for contemporary life issues.Spiritual Christianity:Life 101: Albatross or Millstone?The ‘Bucket List' Item Many IgnoreThird Act Specs; Rose Colored or 20-20?Relationships:7 Steps of Relationship RepairChange Your Response, Improve Your RelationshipsWork-Life Balance: 12 Key LessonsReligion:Bible Prophecy: Warnings or Promises?These 'today topic' discussion starters are designed for seekers, searchers, the fallen away and disillusioned. Those who question, wonder or are ready to explore self-reflectively their lives and relationships. You're invited to book one today!Previous engagements and upcoming shows- https://www.manaopublishing.com/bookings.html INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to): · God Created Sex, Not Man· What Is The Meaning/Purpose Of Communion/Eucharist?· How To Take Communion/Eucharist At Home· The Power Of Communion/Eucharist· Why Do We Go To Church?· Where Did Churches Come From?· Why Churches ARE NOT NECESSARY· Building Faith On A Firm Foundation · What Is The Blood Of Jesus?· Why Do You Believe What You Believe? CONNECT WITH BRANCH: Website & Other Books: https://www.manaopublishing.com/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/podcastguestbranchisoleLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/branch-isole-851433201/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzN66BkAUAemYX76Smnn0GA CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonEmail: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: · Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs · Upwork: https://www.upwork.com · FreeUp: https://freeup.net · Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org · American Legion: https://www.legion.org INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: · PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon TRANSCRIPT: [00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: Hello. Hello. Hello everyone. And welcome back to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. One more week. I am so thrilled to have you with me again, and I love you all so very much. And I am grateful for you. Exciting news and my memoir, which I've been working on for like 10 years. It's finally out. You can check it out@sexjugsandjesus.com.Please support it, please like it. Please share it. Please love it. So today I'm talking with branching, Solei branch is now a resident [00:01:00] guests on the podcast. You've seen him. You love him, you know who he is and he'll be back again today. We're going to be talking about. Communion the Eucharist, whatever you want to call it with Easter right around the corner.I wanted to give you some head knowledge about this and show you how to do it yourself at home. And besides this, we'll be talking about spiritual independence, breaking free from independency on churches and how to just grow in the Lord on your own. Take a listen.Branch ECLA. Thank you so fucking much for coming back on the sex drugs and Jesus podcasts for the umpteenth time. How are you? Branch: Doing well, my brother doing well. How are you today?De'Vannon: Oh,I'm fan fucking tastic. You you know, we're definitely winning for the person who's made the most appearances on this show and I don't see any signs of that changing. You're like our first standing resident guests. Branch: well, thank you. I appreciate them. It's [00:02:00] always a joy being with You De'Vannon: Yeah, you, Branch: get to talk freely and openly and, and hopefully that that's helpful to listen.De'Vannon: yeah. You're the only person who has a heart for Christ who can. Who's not offended by my, what some would call vulgarity and who will respond to me every time I called wanting to have a conversation about Jesus. So, you know, it's meant to be. Branch: Well, it's, you know, it's, it's interesting. I was on a podcast yesterday and we were talking about one of my books that's sexually oriented, you know the stories that are all around sexual interaction and all sex, but for play and, you know, intimacy and in the conversation somebody said something about, well, how can you write about Christian subjects and then turn right around and write, you know, what we consider erotica [00:03:00] and.My simple answer is, you know, sex is part of life. It's part of who we are as a species and as part of our behavior. So, you know, if you have a problem with it, I can understand that, but you know, God made sex part of our, our relationships in our life. So it's part of who we are and what we do. So I don't see the transition as being a problem, but, you know, everybody has their opinions and I feel the same way about, you know cussing as they say, or swearing I have yet to meet.So I have people who, you know, are offended by some of the language that they hear and they, they may use. And my point is, you know, at some point in your life, I'm sure you've said that. So You have to get over it or get through it. And it, you know, it's part of life. It's who we are and [00:04:00] what we do. So what can I say?De'Vannon: I concur God created sex. It wasn't our idea. And you know, but if someone wants to try to, to, to play that game with it, then, you know, there's plenty of biblical references to people who, Branch: No. De'Vannon: you know, look at king David, he reigned an earth. He said to rain again, you know, you know, you know, at the end of the world and Branch: Yeah. De'Vannon: like that, he had plenty of pissy, kinds of wives and concubines and shit.So he was highly sexual, but this is a man who God said was a man after who is a man after his own. And so end of story done, you can totally have, have a strong sexual life and be super close to God. don't have to, it's not one or the other. So. Branch: I guess it's a matter of, you know, what people consider sin and I'll often share with people, you know, in God's eyes, a sin is a sin. [00:05:00] There's no difference in degrees of, you know immortality inaction, all a sin. And as believers in Christ, and this is a hard concept for a lot of people to their head around.are forgiven of our sins present and future, even though we may sin again. And, you know, in the human sense, we may sin again in the future, as followers and believers in Jesus, we are forgiving those actions. Now, does that mean we should sin Figure it's okay. Because we've been forgiven as Paul says, of course not.You know, the whole reason we have a relationship with Christ is so that we are tempted to sin in our lives you know, we, we think twice about it and we call on his spirit to guide [00:06:00] us, you know, in our next action. So it's all a matter of belief and trust in him that he has paid for our sins, but we are not sitting in the future simply because he is paid for our sins.You know, we, we are who we are and if our heart like David's was is with God, then we have that communion with God and that communication with God through Christ and he guides our steps. So.De'Vannon: It's really just that simple and I'll quote my favorite line from the movie trip with Jayda Branch: No. De'Vannon: and all them fabulous, divas. My favorite quote from there says, you really can have it all. And So.it is humans that have complicated. There's a life, not the Lord. And so before we get on the the topic of today, a branch [00:07:00] is a website isn't manna, oh, publishing that And that will go in the show showy notes. He has like about a thousand books, he's written poetry and everything like that. He had run his own publishing house and everything like that. And Branch: Um, De'Vannon: a podcast guests Xtrordinair. He's like a porn star with that shit. He's always up on somebody's podcast.And I absolutely it. I met him through pod match.com, which is a phenomenal website. God bless Alexan Felipo for sending that gift to the world through him. a beautiful thing. When I, when I see it being done just right, like way he's doing it, that is his purpose, at least one of his major purposes.And I think nobody would disagree with me on that. And so stuff about pod match will also be in the show we notes. Now, speaking of the complications humans gave to things today, branch and I are going to be focusing on communion. Easter is upon us, and I felt inspired to [00:08:00] enlighten the world communion, some call it the Eucharist.had all of these different names for the same things, it's the little cracker. Usually people eat in some great juice or some wine. I got my setback here. I got me some fucking Cabernet and mine Cabernet Sauvignon, baby, and my unbelieving bread. The Lord drank his wine and his first miracle was turning water into real wine.I'm not about to have great juice, what I'm doing something to commemorate the creator of the entire universe. So we're going to have the real thing. And so. I wanted to do this show because I want to show, I want to show people how to do communion because you can totally do this at home. You don't have to go traipsing to somebody's church to do anything that connects you to Jesus Christ.You do not have to have a church and you don't have to have a preacher. So I want to talk first about why people go to church, [00:09:00] why people get into it in the scripture that I've found with Hebrews 10 and 25. This is the scripture. They always told me growing up. And it says to foresight, not the gathering together of yourselves.And, and they use this scripture to say, you see there, here it is. And Hebrews, you got to always come to church. And if you don't, you're forsaking the gathering together of people and you're breaking the rules and you're sending, if you don't come to church. So what are your thoughts on that branch? Like historically, like what was going on, do you think.That you know, culturally during that time, that would make them write such a thing. Branch: Well, of course, you know, AF after the death of Christ, when the first Christians which, who were actually Jews got together to celebrate what he had taught them and what they had learned they met in what we would call a home church or home environment. You know, they met in small [00:10:00] groups they share what they knew and what they had to learn and what they had experienced when Jesus walked among them.And out of that, No this communion or Eucharist right of passage almost your emotion and your commitment to Christ. So, you know, the church out of those small gatherings of in that first century. And by the second and third century, know, Christianity had spread throughout the Roman empire and the gatherings became bigger and a little more formal leadership could play.So once you get that kind of a structure, you know, you need a bigger place. And then I started building churches and it became a religion as an outgrowth of [00:11:00] that sharing knowledge of Jesus Christ our lives, in our daily lives. Just like every other religion, grew from a seedling of a master of scripture they grow into behemoths where faith part and the closeness to master often gets diluted with the politics of the church.That's who we are as people that's that's our human nature is to try and gain control of it, know, so that we're in control. And that we, once we have control, we have the power to reel over other people in that case, you know, in a church situation over the congregation. So, but you know, you don't have to go to church or show up in a building to have that relationship with Christ, just the abuse, know, have [00:12:00] just pointed out it's it's a person.Spiritual relationship.De'Vannon: It's personal before it is anything else. And like what I did before, when I had made mistakes about. My understanding of God when I got kicked out of Lakewood church and I let that caused a division in between me and God. You see, I was putting the preachers and the pastors and the worship leaders in the church a pedestal and making an idol out of them.And I didn't realize that I was, how do I know that? Because when I got kicked out, I got angry at God and I stopped talking. I stopped going to all the churches and I stopped praying and I stopped doing everything because I had conflated and put God on the same level as Joel Olsteen and Victoria O'Steen and and all the worship leaders in the church itself.And the service I was doing for the church, should have happened is, as soon as I saw that they didn't want gay people serving with the [00:13:00] children. I should have just left the whole church to begin with for them being specifically exclusionary towards a certain group of people. But but since I didn't do that, if they were going to kick me out, for some reason, I should have just said, fuck them, but not fuck God.I shouldn't, I should. Just went to a church that accepted gay people and kept my relationship with God. But I let, what, how people treated me tear my whole religious construct down. So it was torn down. It was able to be torn down because it was built on a weak foundation to begin with in terms of my understanding of it.So I'm doing much of what I do to prevent people from knowingly falling into that same trap giving these preachers in these churches too much damn credit. You know, you don't, they just don't, they don't deserve to have all that. And they're not all that. And they're going to be wrong about shit and they already are.And so when the scandals come out and we have our Jerry Falwell's fucking the pool boys and fucking everybody, who's not as white, know, there's no need for us to [00:14:00] be shocked. You know, this is, these preachers are people they do in everything. Everybody else is doing. And we don't know what the hell they're not doing when that, around us, that the image they present at church is just one side of them.doesn't matter who they are. They still got their own habits and things like that. So it's time for us to get to know God for ourself, because when shit gets worse than this earth, we can't be needing to go run to a preacher to get a prayer through. We can't wait till we get to church, define God. We can't go find a priest to confess, to, to get forgiveness when Christ has already handled that job, you know, I'm trying to bring people face to face with God.Like he wants to be, he said, as near as the air, we breathe, as near I'm near, but you got to go through somebody to get to me, you know, that's not what he said. So. Branch: Well, we live in a fist. We live in a physical world and we grow up in a physical world and that's all we [00:15:00] know, you know one of the big concepts that are hard to understand is worshiping and having a relationship with something on seem, right. And that's what faith is all about is having that relationship with the unseen supremacy of God.And we are a world. By its very nature tries to separate us from God and put him so far away from us that it's necessary for us to go through some ecumenical person, a priest, a pastor Pope in order to reestablish that relationship with God. And because that's the nature we grow up in, that's what we believe to be the only truth.He said it best a moment ago when you send your understanding. When we [00:16:00] understand that God, as our creator is within us and with us all the time, if we choose to acknowledge his presence, then we know that we can have that personal relationship with or without. A church setting or a gathering of fellowship believers. There's certainly nothing wrong with being a believer and attending church, as long as know, you're grounded spiritually in that relationship with God through Christ Christ is our ecclesiastic mediator. He's the one that we go through get to God, necessarily the priest or the pastor or the Pope.So De'Vannon: Right. Branch: right on my De'Vannon: So what's your thing, your, what you hallelujah on a Friday morning. So what'd your thing is what I would agree with. [00:17:00] So people gotta, gotta, gotta start in this physical realm somewhere. Cause that's what we see. And then as they mature, then they can get to a point of what I'm talking about. Branch: Yeah, exactly. Jesus said, you know, we're babies, we get. And as we mature into adults than we can handle the meat. the exposure is the milk, the relationship and the growth, you know, with Christ is the meat.De'Vannon: Right. And so what for me, what maturity in God looks like is going to church. If I feel drawn to not, because I feel like I have to in my personal time with him alone, I feel like I learned more than I can from any preacher. So. Branch: Yeah, sure, De'Vannon: That's what it looks like. Branch: Yeah. That well, that's what communion truly all about is that that talking with God, you know, in our minds with our mouth, that [00:18:00] connection that we have every day it doesn't have to be one hour on a Sunday or Saturday or Wednesday night. It can be every time think of him, spirit, God, the father and God, the son, or any one of the three, they are responding every time we're making that connection.the further you go down the spiritual path and the more they are part of your thought process, the more you'll see his spiritual power working in your life.De'Vannon: Yup. Cause what you want. If so like when, when we die, we don't want to be in a position where we're standing at God and it's, and we feel like we're talking to a stranger, we gotta be facilitating that relationship now. So when we actually see his face as though we've had a long distance relationship with someone who we're finally getting to meet, or we're totally familiar with, so this means I need you to push a social media [00:19:00] way and spend a little bit more time, you know, with God praying fast, want to reading your Bible and doing the things that you can looking at different scriptures, different ways to look at it online, different commentaries, you know, different things than me get serious because this walk with God is kind of like we're dating him.When we date people, we get to know them. We experienced them in different environments, different settings and things like that. So I want people to really get intimate with God, you know? And you were at your best with that when there's no one around and it's just you and him, period. And so, so we're talking about communion.Why am I talking about communion? This communion is a beautiful thing. We first see this act of communion in the gospels, Matthew, mark, John, all of them, when Jesus is getting ready to get crucified, he calls all of his disciples together and he has you know, communion and he tells [00:20:00] them them the wine, the unleavened bread represents his body, is about to be broken.in the blood represents his blood is about to be shared. I believe in communion when I was young and I was a nosy ass kid, poking my nose in places where I believe that should be going So no matter who said where it shouldn't be going, damn it, I needed to know shit. And so the preachers in those days would go around the older people who didn't go to church bring the communion to them and communion consist of great Jews actual fermented wine.Like I said, I got my Cabernet my wine, my communion cutting back here and then unleavened bread, because that was an Israelite thing. Especially during like Passover and stuff like that. They didn't fool with the leaving and that's a whole other topic there, but you know, it's a peer purification thing.So the bread didn't have any leaves. [00:21:00] So the preacher comes, administer his, now this, now we're at her house. We're not in church. And he asked me and I followed him into my grandmother's house and he asked me if I want to commute. And I was like, sure. And I must've been like five or six, just, just a nosy, fucking kid running around.And so I took the brand, gobbled it on down. And then when I took that great juice from the cup or whatever, I drank it. And then immediately, immediately I I felt like I guess you could best describe it as kind of like an electric chill move through my body from like the waist not the top of my body, just the waist down.And it was so much so that I like my legs buckled and they gave out and I like leaned up against my grandmother's bed, which, you know, granny's bed. It's like a thousand Branch: Okay. De'Vannon: tall, so it can certainly support any body. For a few days after that, it's like, my body was clicking that [00:22:00] I was moving faster than I'd ever moved before.Just like in a regular walking straight, I had a new burst of energy in life. This is sort of thing that happens when like God or an angel, you come in contact with one of them. You get, you get in live. And, and I don't know what it did. I didn't know that I needed to touch, but I know when I drank that grape juice out of that cup, that, that preacher had prayed over.Something happened to me. And so I know the power is real. And I want to bring this power to everybody. And I'm not saying every time you drink the cup, you're going to catch the holy ghost. So you're going to feel tingly, but see, sometimes we don't feel anything at all and God is moving a whole, whole lot.So we don't judge. Whether or not, God is doing anything about what we can necessarily see and feel. That's what faith is all about. Believing whether or Not we can't see it. So, oh, no brunch here. Have you ever had, had, or witnessed any sort of personal experiences happening current around.Branch: Not that I can recall that [00:23:00] was that kind of a awakening, what you described two things. Number one, when we have a relationship with Christ, we have relationship with God, the father, through his spirit in Christ, as Christ is in us, you will find your connection to the Trinity is heightened and you will notice his presence in your life.Sometimes it's physical, sometimes it's audit honorable or audio, and sometimes it's just a sense you have He's there guiding your steps. The great thing about his presence is if you recognize it, you will discover later on. At some point could be quick time, or it could be or weeks later, his presence will show up in your life where you will definitely recognize something happened. It's just the way it works and it, you know, it's hard for [00:24:00] non-believers or those who are struggling with that relationship to grasp. It's, like I said, the other day in a show, the further you go down that path with Christ, the more you'll see him working in your life. And once you start seeing it and recognizing it, you'll see it more and more often, and it will become almost second nature.So that every time in your daily life, you think about the Trinity father, son, and or spirit, there'll be a recognition for you that they are recognizing that connection with them. It's just, it's all a spirit thing. And I think you and I talked about, you know, the principalities of light and dark and spirit and the world before, and that's what happens, the greater, your spiritual growth.Takes place with Christ. The more often you see him working and being in your life, and it just becomes second nature and you [00:25:00] automatically turn to him at every juncture when you're or under stress. he responds. And it's just, it's the nature of, you know, his unconditional love and his compassion for each of us as believers in him as the son of God.De'Vannon: Yeah. So just give it time. This is a, a thing of patience. You can't run out and become a spiritually mature overnight. You can't rush any relationship. It takes time.Branch: Yep.De'Vannon: So, so the Eucharist deals with the body and the blood of Jesus. Now I've heard some people say before that the, the concept of the blood of Jesus just sounds disgusting to them. They're like, who wants to be covered in blood? That just sounds like a horror moviebecause you know, people in churches you'll hear them say, you know, I plead the blood of [00:26:00]Jesus or I'm covered in the blood of the lamb, you know, or something like that. You care to explain to us what does it mean to plead the blood of Jesus already to be covered in the blood of the lamb? How does that transfer translate from Jesus's physical blood spilling to the spiritual ways meant today? Branch: Wow. There's about three different things in what you just said. First of all, it's symbolism, right? The bread is a symbol of his body. The wine is a symbol of his blood, as you said, the body was broken and the blood was shed to be covered in the blood of Christ is to take on righteousness, you know, as the, as the sacrifice for our sins.And then when we die, we will be refined by his spiritual power. That was, you know, [00:27:00]when he, when he shed his blood for us, he became the living son of God for us. So, you know, the it's just like the that people were, you know, around their neck or somewhere on their body as a symbol of their, Christian identity.It's a symbol and people who, you know, sort of get caught up in the drinking of the blood and that kind of concept just are missing the whole point. Then, you just, can't, some people just refuse to walk to understand have clarity. And they're not at that place yet. That's all that they're not ready, you know, to make that leap of faith and understand who Christ was, why he came the first time and why he's coming back again.So it's all symbolism. You have to [00:28:00] look past the, the actual wine and see what it represents.De'Vannon: Right. So then if I say I plead the blood of Jesus, our Lord covered me with your blood. What I'm saying is God, I, I understand the sacrifice for me. And I believe that that power is still alive. That day. I'd like to cash in on that. You know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not saying dump a bucket of blood on me. I just, I would like to cash in on the work that you did spiritually speaking. Branch: Yep.De'Vannon: So. So here we have Jesus before he was about to be betrayed. We know Jude Judas Iscariot was the ultimate criminal informant in history of, oh Jesus, wasn't a criminal. I had an informant who snitched me out to the cops before SWAT came and kicked my door in. So I can understand, you know, Jesus feeling betrayed, you know, it's bad when you got somebody who's been running with you close to you, who also don't like you, who platen against you, which is what [00:29:00] Judas was about.So that's where the term, when people say, oh, he's a Judas. It's something like that. You know, we're talking about the ultimate snitch. And so Jesus turned to him and he said that what you do do quickly gone and sell me out for the 30 pieces of silver is already arranged to go cause those secure the bag.So we can get on with this crucifixion thing and then branch and I will be talking about the crucifix. Next week. And now we're going to go into detail about what this whole authority crowns and why, what does a man carrying a cross and dying on the cross have to do with me today? You know, we're going to talk about the crucifixion next week.And so here we are, Jesus. He's already washed his disciples feet and they're sitting down to have this, what we call the last supper. When you hear somebody say the last supper is this, the last time Jesus is having communion or commuting hanging out with his disciples before he's to go to, to get crucified.So this is where the [00:30:00] concept comes from now. First Corinthians chapter 11 is where the apostle Paul kind of lays it out. And he starts started saying for, I have received of the Lord. So it seems to me like maybe this came to him in a vision or something like that, where he learned about the act of communion from God, from Jesus himself.And this was a scripture that they always preach. Every time we had communion and Sunday in the Pentecostal church, every time we did it, they always did it first Corinthians 11. So anything you'd like to say at this point, Bernie. Branch: No, go ahead. Go De'Vannon: Okay. Branch: And it can help. It can also be found in Luke 22 you know, with actual disciples at the supper, but De'Vannon: Okay. Branch: same coach, same scripture.De'Vannon: Right. And so and so basically they, they, they just, there's a lot of information and there's a lot of things that are said [00:31:00] that don't really directly have to do with the bread and the wine, but are still important all the same. So I'm just going to focus on the bread and the wine, because that's what we're here for today.And so. The body represents the physical sacrifice. He said, take eat. This is my body, which is broken for you. This do in remembrance of me. Then it says after the same manner, also he took the cup thing. This is my blood drink it, you know, as often as you do this and remember me, so the way he's phrasing this, as often as you do, it means that something that can be done again and again and again, and this wasn't a one-time thing that he shared with his disciples.said this do in remembrance of me. So Jesus wants us to a physical way to remember his sacrifices. You know, when we do things. Physically, it reinforces it in our conscious and our subconscious minds our spirit. And it makes us sacrifice a reality [00:32:00] today in the present, even though it was done many years ago.So he wants us to sit down and celebrate it. I kind of get the feeling of how we do our birthdays or an anniversary or something like that. know, we want to always commemorate it and find a way to keep it alive and fresh. And so that to me kind of like the breakdown of how communion came about to be gave the first example, and then we picked it up from there. Branch: Well, a lot of people, you know, anyone who prays before a meal and, and thanks the Lord for what they're about to receive. That's the same outward expression of what he was talking about. You know, at that last supper, he was trying to describe to the disciples. These are people, these are men who had been with him, you know, up to three years.And an ed walked with him and learned from him every day and still many of them [00:33:00]misunderstood what was happening. And so he tries to describe the suffering. He's about to go through on the cross and why he's going to do it, you know, for his day in four hours. And so what he's asking them to do is every time.You know, you're sitting down to eat or drink in a supper situation, just like we do at supper or dinner. He's giving us that opportunity to reconnect with him through what we're taking in, what we're consuming in our body. If we're remembering him by prayer, before we do that, then we're recognizing that reestablishment of our spiritual consumption of him with us today.And so it's, it's that transfer of the physical to the spiritual, both in his day and for us. And so we, you [00:34:00] can do it. The van and said, you can do it at home whenever, but you can do it every time you sit down for a meal, you can remember, you know, the Lord by what you're taking in. And you're, re-establishing that spiritual reconnection and taking him back in.So go ahead, my brother.De'Vannon: And I've heard it. That's a very good breakdown. My man, I've heard it said. You know what, when you drink that, that grape diesel, that wine, you know, you're drinking actual physical healing yourself. You know, your faith can take you as far as you're willing to go with it. And so, you know, I've heard, it said, you know, you know, when you eat, you eat, eat the bread of represents his body.Then you're taking that life into yourself. You know? So that concept, there are bins around the act of community and attractive heal, physical infirmities. I'm not going to take that away and say that it's impossible, especially not after that touch that I got one [00:35:00] that day when I was a kid, you know, you know, this is, this is, this is a, this is a powerful tool that God has really given us.And so, I mean, it says as often as you do it, if you want to do communion week, every day, you know, that's in between you and God. I ever, you know, it's a one other way. We have the field close to him. But my point in doing this today, as we approach Easter, is to let you know. You did not have to wait until you go to church to experience this communion with God.And so at this point, I am going to show you how I do it. And I'm just gonna reach back here and get this little piece of unleavened bread. It took me a while to track this down on the internet, as you know, it's, there's really yeasty, you know, in this country. But I finally found me some on leaving bread or maybe I went to whole foods.I think I went to whole foods and actually able to get this. And so you can read the [00:36:00] scripture and the Corinthians or a different one if you want to not. So when I do it, I try not to be so super formal about stuff because I don't want to lose the meaning in ritual and in formality, know, I like it to be real.Like I'm just having a conversation with my boyfriend. I don't have. That I use to talk to him you know, I just don't, I just flow. And then, and that's the same way I try to be with God, because it's real because God judges the hearts and the rains, he does not judge the outward actions like that. He's looking into the real reasons why you're doing what you're doing.So it's not really, which no man is qualified to do so. And so it was really about the heart of the matter. So whenever I'm ready to feel a little bit close to the Lord, I will me some unleavened bread like this sucker right here. And maybe I'll say a prayer like Lord, I'm about to take this communion with you.I appreciate the sacrifice that you gave for all of [00:37:00] us all those years ago. That sacrifice is still just as alive today as you are. And I know that as I take this communion, that. Lining up and sinking into and tapping into and becoming one with eternity and within you with you and with all that you are, all that has been is, and what will be actually to take me with you on, into your strength and on into your grace.And as I take it as a bread, and as I drink this wine, want to thank you for what you've done. I want to thank you for what you are doing. I appreciate what you're going to do, heal me and cleanse me and making me right and make me whole by your standards that nobody else is in Jesus name. Now, some people like to break the bread and do it.doesn't matter to me because it's going to be broken once you start crunching on it. whatever suits your fancy, oh My cup, you can get [00:38:00] communion sets off the internet. Really expensive. And you had like a whole, a lot of them and they had like a short expiration date. And so you could get you like some Welch's grape juice honey, or a bottle of wine, like this Cabernet I have right here. And you'll be in a better position.You just drink it. And that's all there is to it. And now I believe the Lord heard that it's a simple thing. I'm a little bit goes a long way with Christ. Like I said, he judges the hearts and the rains, the motives behind things, just because we sat down and take the time to do something special before. And with God, he can't help, but honor that because we take time to do so much everything else that brings us pleasure in life.And I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that, but how much do we travel? Fuck [00:39:00]drink alcohol, go out, have fun party, go to museums, social media for God's sakes. You know, we play our video games. How much time do we spend doing all the fuck we want to do? But if we were to take a snapshot of our time spent in a week or a month, how much time do we actually personally spend with God versus all the other stuff that he's empowered us to go out and do you know, I really want to put him first, you know, with balance, you know, I don't overdo it.I don't underdo it, but if I'm going to be having all of my amenities and things in life for damn sure. Well, I'm going to sit down and take the time to get close to the one who's who's enabling me to do it all, but got to say about it.Branch: Well, you have to think of communion as you just described communicating with God. anytime that we express that either, [00:40:00] know, the way you just did with the bread and wine in prayer or in petition or in our behavior, how we respond, what it got say. And Matthew Love God first and most and love your neighbor as yourself.when we respond to the event, And the people in our lives with compassion and understanding and love, you know, we are communicating, we are communion communing with God because we are responding the way Christ responded. When he walked this earth in the way God would have us respond our daily life.So it's about communion. It's about communicating. about having that relationship where God's spirit active within us. It's part of us. So it's us to have that communion in that communication the, where we [00:41:00] can then in our actions express that we emulate we do what Jesus would have done in the same situation.in that emulation of Jesus thought word, indeed, we further. Children of God and everything we do then an act of obedience because that's what we wish to do. We wish to emulate or use Christ as our example. There's, there's lots of ways to have that communion physically, mentally, psychologically, emotionally, but you've got to have that living spirit within you.So you've got that connection.De'Vannon: And what do you think about in Corinthians that says that not the the body and blood of the Lord and worthiness. For, if you do. So you [00:42:00] bring condemnation on yourself and for this many, for this reason, many are weak and sickly among you and many sleep. So in the church, when I was growing up, they, they wouldn't use that part of the scripture to basically be like, if you come up here and take this communion, unworthily without repeating for your Sans first, then you could get sick or die or some sort of condemnation would come upon you.I wonder. Do you agree with that sentiment?Branch: Not at all, not really. It, it reflects to me, you know, that power that the priest or the pastor is trying to use over the people in the pews. You know, one of the things about with God is the power is the spiritual power. Again, I can't say this enough when you've got the spirit of God living within you.The one thing that you will recognize in your life is [00:43:00] And once you start living with truth in your life, see the fallacy and the fakeness and the false who of the world that you know, and this is not to condemn priesthood, but again, man has manipulated religion, no matter what religion, has been Islam, you know, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, the original master had from God and had writings, which glorified God our nature.once those masters passed away, then people in the church. Oh, where the sin God, you know, took control. And if you are not in that same spiritual place with the [00:44:00] master, then it's very easy to get sucked into the politics and the hypocrisy of religion. no matter what religion it is and the deeper and the more power that the church or the religion gathers in garners, the more it tries to impose on its membership.The fact that, you know, God is up here and we're down here. And the way you get to God is through us. Just like we're trying to express today. The way you get to God is through Christ. So it's, you know, it's power and manipulation of, of men over other men or, you know, clergy over the congregation, they can say, and.Trick people into believing just about anything, because they have convinced people that they are God's representative here on [00:45:00] earth to that group. You know, you have to break free of that. Again, there's nothing wrong with going to church, going to synagogue, as long as when you're there, you're being fed the word and your heart, you know, you you'll know in your heart, whether it's bullshit that they're trying to put out and control you with or whether it's really what God would have you do and respond to.De'Vannon: Mikey often say the church has an agenda. Branch: Yeah, definitely. You know, their agenda is to get more money out of you. You know, w why any church needs to collect funds? Is beyond me. If, if, if their congregation is being fed the truth and being fed a relationship with God through their master or Christ [00:46:00] or Eamomm Muhammad, whoever may be, there's no reason that they, that the congregation won't voluntarily tide.No, you don't have to brown beat them into collecting money, but here again, religions are a human entity with an agenda and that agenda has to be funded. So you know, the Catholic church is one of the richest entities in the world, and yet they still collect tides and dues.De'Vannon: Oh God, the Catholic. Branch: Yeah. Well,De'Vannon: I've been watching on HBO plus the young Pope with Jude law's sexy ass as the young Popin have to say that series, it's quite titillating, it's quite titillating. And I actually want, there was a friend of mine whose family was [00:47:00] greatly damaged by the Catholic church. And I really, really want to have her on my show to talk about it, because I'm just how to say this about the Catalytics, you know, do what you do.And I head judged nobody, but personally there's no way that I would kiss the Pope's ring. I'm not about to are doing it, the doctrines and stuff that they do and the whole confessional and everything. I just don't understand. We're all the rules and stuff came from that they follow it's almost like they have their own Bible or something.I'm like who the hell came up with this shit in. And that way the people wait and hang the, on the on every word, the Pope says, you know, they can't decide for themselves if this is right or wrong until he says it. And then you have the one Pope who may rule one way on something. And an another Pope rule was a different. Something, but then they're both supposed to be the ultimate voice of God. Okay. Well, then there's some human error in here. Some fucking where cause otherwise one poke shouldn't have a different [00:48:00] opinion than the next. So there it's supposed to be like the holiest guy or whatever the fuck he's supposed to be.I don't like that. The actress of the Catholic church, the big robe, it's the big ass hat that dude wears all, all the extra shit. I'm all like what happened to just Jesus? Like what is all of this? And so, so many of my friends are ex Catholics, man. And they, ain't never seven foot in the church. Again, they don't give a fuck.They are done whatever the hell happened to them. And that in that Catholic religion has scarred them and they are over it. They're over all with it. They're not having any of it. Although once they, you know, she's, she's cool with God, but just fuck the Catholic church forever. So then, you know, some of them haven't lost it all, but I don't know people like, they ha they, they have like a PTSD when they leave the Catholic church.Some sort of some right in there, you didn't have that many people saying the same thing. Like they just felt abused. Be it the poor Ulta boy, actually getting fucked [00:49:00] by the, by the priest or like she's like mental abuse. Like that much hurt shouldn't come from a church and I don't care how much money they have.Branch: Well, we live in a world where, know, everyone has. Suffered some form of reviews. You just have to realize that that's way of nature and that's human nature. And it's been going on since the beginning of mankind, you know, no one grows up totally absent of a dysfunctional family. our very nature, we are dysfunctional and the groups that we joined being they religious or social or civic they all have dysfunction within them, by our human nature.We are aggressive and selfish. And you exhibit had those kinds of desires of, [00:50:00] you know, what's in it for me, or it's all about me when we live our lives that way. We are going to cause harm to other people. And, you know, that's what happens when you have societies that are absent of spiritual grounding.And when you have people who, who have been sort of sucked into the world's ways, believing that, know, this is the only way you can live. And that reason, that's the way I'm going to live. You know, they are absent of spiritual grounding. They're unaware that, you know, what is happening is not healthy.not healthy mentally. It's not healthy physically. So it's not just the church situation or the church community has issues. Every community has issues and every group has issues. It's a [00:51:00]matter of how they play out. And of course, know, because religions rely on this power from God as God's representatives to those particular groups, they can use that power to cause a lot of damage and a lot of harm, but that's not just indicative of religions.That's the world we live in. That's why spiritual grounding is so important.De'Vannon: Hmm. So I would say everybody, when we're dealing with churches and preachers and priests or whatever, all of them is to look at them through a filter, you know, like they could be right. They could be wrong. They might be a righteous person. They might not be a righteous person. What they say could be accurate, what they say could be inaccurate.You got to try, try, the tree for the fruit. It bears try these spirits. Jesus said there would be many spirits. And basically he's saying don't believe [00:52:00] everybody, you know, feel it out, research, do your own homework. So we got to stop approaching preachers and churches. Like they're automatically right there.Like they're automatically correct. You. We gotta deal with them. Like we would anybody else like, okay, let me see what you say and make sense, know, like that as opposed to, okay, they're right. I'm wrong. So I'm just going to twist my thinking too, to be in line with whatever comes out of their mouth. That's not going to work. Branch: Well here again, the key is spirits of grounding. If you have the spirit of God living in new food belief in Jesus Christ, you will see fallacy the truth they speak of. You'll recognize. This is the problem with, you know, people who are injured. Who don't have spiritual grounding. They believe what they're being told. like we have today, many people believe what they're being told by [00:53:00] politicians De'Vannon: Yeah. Branch: corporations. And, you know, they're filled with lies because they have an agenda of self enrichment. when you don't know what the truth looks. You can believe anything. And with today's technology, know, they can make anything look true to your eye. You can't tell what's real and what's not real anymore because technology so far advanced. And so you have to have, you have to have the truth living within you so you can recognize the truth or the false hoods that are being presented to you by the world and by the people in the world and the events in the world.do you get that spiritual How do you get God's spirit living within you? So you can see the truth. You go to Matthew seven, ask, you, see you knock Jesus [00:54:00] Christ to come into your life. And what he tells us in John 14 and 26 is when you ask me, I will send my spirit to be with you, to live with you and to guide you.And that's all you have to do. And once you've done that, his spirit, the spirit of God, as creator will come, you, his holy spirit will come through Jesus Christ and live within you. And from that moment on, you will begin to see and recognize the truth at church at synagogue, at temple in your life, in your relationships in your world.And you'll recognize the truth and you'll know what's true and what's not true. And then you have the choice to live by either that truth or the faults of the world. And that's how easy it is to change your life.De'Vannon: And truth is something we must discover for ourselves. Like I say, I don't argue with [00:55:00] people on social media over like politics and stuff like that. I did for like a hot second when I first became political back when all the Trumpy foolishness was happening. And then I quickly realized like, okay, nobody's changing here.And then I Branch: Exactly. De'Vannon: I also realized everything everyone was saying was a third party account. So they're either listening to Fox news MSNBC. And I told them, I think the last thing I posted in regard to politics was this, like none of us have verified any of this information for ourselves.You're choosing to believe a media outlet, but you weren't there. You didn't go get the report. You weren't on the ground. You didn't have boots on the ground. This is not your information. is somebody else's information. So why sit here and argue with you about what Joe Scarborough toe, what I heard Joe Scarborough say, you're trying to tell me what Tucker Carlson said.bitch, neither one of us [00:56:00] went there to go and actually get the shit. And neither did Joe Scarborough or Tucker Carlson. So, and I saw this manifested with somebody who was new to Christianity. When I first met him, he was like agnostic or some shit. He just didn't believe in anything, somewhere along the way he got converted and he decided to become Christian.And so I asked him where his, what his stance was. LGBTQ issues as I tend to do with people who I might be seeing from time to time, because I don't fuck with people who have a problem with my with my sexuality. I refuse to do it because I'm not going to let myself be abused that way again. So he gave me the textbook answer of well, you know, it's not me who has a problem with it.I'm just telling you what the Bible says. And then I told him before I dismissed him and I never talked to him again. Not because we were different, but because when people have these adverse [00:57:00]thinkings about my community, I don't know if they're going to do something to hurt me one day. And so that's why I don't want people like that close to me.Not because we disagree, but because the way they disagree can be violent at times towards me. And so so I tell them, well, that Bible, that you're reading is an American is from the middle east. And it was not a written in English. You know, it was written in ancient languages, which I can already tell you haven't bothered to read, because first of all, you just started walking with Christ like yesterday and you ain't in.So I encouraged him to, as he's going through the Bible to remind himself of the fact that this is someone else's account and you are not an expert on what somebody else said, you can't be because you didn't say it. I mean, you didn't, you didn't research. It is not your fucking shit. And then S and then I encouraged and I told them that.So what you're doing is trying to tell me my life is wrong based on someone else's interpretation of someone else's look. And I refuse to accept that from him. He could not argue [00:58:00] with this logic because it's because it's simply the truth. And so I caution people to why they believe what they believe.You know, if you believe this about this group of people, or you believe whatever's right or wrong, Y you believe. Something about politics. Why is it truly, because you've done the hard work to determine the fact you do your own fact finding and fact checking. Are you just listening to what someone else said or just reading what someone else wrote the right convincing words and the right tones of voice.Many people can be manipulated. So, or, you know, then media outlets will use your emotions to manipulate us we'll preachers. So we've gotta be careful about why we believe what we believe. And most people, I challenge brands about why they believe what they believe cannot respond to me because the reason they believe it is because someone else said it.So. [00:59:00]Branch: Well, we generally believe what we grow up with, you know, and what we, as children are taught and a doc tornado. What, what our family believes is our first fundamental belief, because that's all we know. And so each one of us grows up believing what we've been told and what we've been exposed to. And, you know, for a great number of people that's, as far as it goes, they have no desire or no inclination to step outside of that box and have a broader view of the world.You know, this is why I always encourage people, take the blinders off and see the world for what it is good, bad, and ugly. And there's a lot of people, you know, who, especially in our country who refuse to get out of that box [01:00:00] and they dig their heels in as to their. And in their hearts and minds for them, you know, that is truth.And we live in a world where there's lots of agencies and corporations who are willing to help you continue in those beliefs. That's why we have the world. We have it's not the world that we will experience after this world for believing Christians, but it's the world that we live in now. And that's why it's so important to recognize truth from fallacy and fiction and fabrications. I can't express that enough. You know, the way you get to that place is to have the spirit of Christ living and growing within you. Then you will see the truth and you'll have the option and the choice in the decision. As to how you're going to live your life, you know, with the truth and with [01:01:00]Christ in your life, guiding your steps or battling the world with the world's waves,De'Vannon: You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. Branch: man.De'Vannon: So also want me to say so for anybody who might get hung up on, and we were talking about how tell people use the scripture to say, if you take communion, will be judged and condemned if it's really bothering you, or if you want to, just to be sure you have a clear conscious, all you merely need to do is just ask the Lord to forgive you of all your sins right before you take it. we should be asking for forgiveness of our sins everyday in way. But but you can just be like, Lord, forgive me, my sins, anything I may have done wrong. You've seen it all. I confess it. I'm not going to hide anything. I'm not running from you. Please forgive me. And I accept that forgiveness in the name of Jesus.And in that moment you're done, everything's clear so that you can go ahead and take your communion just in case those scriptures put any [01:02:00] kind of fear or trepidation in you. And so Well, for the, you know, for your listeners who are listening to this and have wonder, or now are a little bit better versed in what community is, they can start to do it. If they choose to and know the reasons that it took place and what it represents and how it can connect them to the Lord, how they can commune with the Lord.Branch: So I think it's been good, you know, for people who've wonder, didn't know, now they understand a little bit better and they can make it part of their lives if they so choose to. But at least they'll know a little bit more than they might've before. So good job.De'Vannon: And so it. That's all I'm going to say. I wanted to do for us. This is a quick video. We've been talking for an hour, but we usually go for like two hours. So this is probably like our [01:03:00]short is starting the interview to date. So with that, you can go ahead and have our closing word. Did anything you'd like to say, go ahead and say it, man.Branch: I want to thank all the listeners and keep tuning in to demand. The podcast, you know, podcasting is a great opportunity for people to learn a lot of different information from a lot of different people. It's sort of the last bastion of free speech and because it is free, there's podcasts out there on virtually any interest area or any subject matter that you might want or need in your life. We're glad you're here with Davanon and myself. We talk about, you know, Jesus Christ and spiritual growth, and we'd love for you to come back as often as you want.De'Vannon: Hallelujah tabernacle And praise.Branch: And man.[01:04:00]De'Vannon: Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and resources at sex, drugs, and jesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.My name is De'Vannon and it's been wonderful being your host today and just remember that everything is going to be all right.
INTRODUCTION: About John Follis / "LEAVING GOD” John Follis is the award-winning writer/director of the documentary "LEAVING GOD” (2017). Winner of a Hollywood International Documentary Film award the film explores a major cultural shift happening in America -- a shift away from religion and God. Paralleling this trend it also shares John's fascinating personal story. Described as “Compelling” by the BBC, "LEAVING GOD” has been seen by over 36,000 people from 98 countries via Vimeo, YouTube, and TopDocumentaryFilms.com. Before becoming a filmmaker John was an award-winning Madison Ave ad man who actually helped sell God. His 16-year ad campaign for New York's Marble Church received national attention via The New York Times, USAToday and TIME magazine. That story is included in the film. INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to): · A Documentary About People Leaving God· Preachers Coming Out!!!· Separation Of Church and State· Radical Republicans· The Ways Churches Hurt People· Why Religious Persecution of People Is Wrong· The Differences Between God And The Church· Tribalism Defined· The Importance Of Obtaining Discernment· Catholic Shade CONNECT WITH JOHN: Website & Film: https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/leaving-god/YouTube: https://bit.ly/3IvRjH0Facebook: https://bit.ly/357oAuAInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/johnfollis/Twitter: https://twitter.com/JohnFollisLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnfollis/ CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonEmail: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: · Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs · Upwork: https://www.upwork.com· FreeUp: https://freeup.net· Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org· American Legion: https://www.legion.org INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: · PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon TRANSCRIPT: [00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: Hello? Hello. Hello. Are you beautiful people out there in the world? I am so fucking happy and excited to have you with me again. One more week today, I'm talking with a man by the name of John Follas. His man is an award winning creative director, writer, and filmmaker. Now he didn't made a documentary called leaving God.And in this film, he's talking about the ways church has hurt people in this mass Exodus of people away from Christianity and religion. [00:01:00] It's not very often. Did I hear people's story about the ways that, that they were hurt by the church? Like how I was? So this was a particularly close to home.So in this show, we're going to talk about preaches coming out and we're not talking about coming out gay honey. They coming out another way and talking about why religious persecution of people is wrong and the differences between God and the church. Take a listen, baby. Hello, John. Hey, Davanon Mr. John. Fallas welcome to the sex drugs in Jesus podcast. How are you today? I am John: awesome. Awesome. Thanks for having me on your show. De'Vannon: Thank you for stopping by and thank you for creating the film you have. Today we're gonna be talking a lot about it and the things that are in it.The title of it is leaving God. And it's a free video's out there for all to see through your YouTube channel and [00:02:00] different things like that. I'll let you tell people exactly how to find it and everything. I was impressed with how, how personal you got in the documentary because usually whenever I watch a documentary.The, the emphasis it's like the lenses turn on whatever the subject matter is, or, or whoever the, the documentary is about. But you you, I think you tow the line well in between covering the subject matter and, and talking a lot about yourself and a lot about your personal life. And that transparency is something that I, I find to be like gold.I really, really love a good transparent person. And and so I appreciate that, that willingness to, to expose yourself like that, because, you know, that's what really connects people to the story. Right. Exactly. So tell us in your own words then about this film and why on earth would you make such a.[00:03:00]John: Well, I made it because it talks about one of the most major cultural shifts currently happening in America right now, which is more and more people leaving the church, leaving religion and leaving God. So that's why I made it. I thought that's a very, I I'm, I pay attention to pop culture. I, I, I paying a attention to what's half happening in society and because my personal story was part of that cultural shift that's happening in America.It definitely related to me on a personal level, as you just mentioned in the introduction. So I mean, this is something that I had been, I, I, you know, like you, I'm interested in the big themes of life, sex money not so much drugs. Jesus, God health. You know, all those, the big themes in life are the ones I wanted to know as much [00:04:00] as possible about because the more you know about these big themes, I think the more, the better happier life you will have, you know, the more things you can figure out.Right? So I've always been intrigued by the of God. And once I was old enough to begin thinking for myself, when I'd say probably high school and college, I started pursuing my curiosity about God and trying to learn as much about who God is and how I can, you know, if he, or she, or whatever it is, is really that powerful and can be so helpful in my life.I wanted to really, you know, see what it's about. So I could work it to my benefit. Right? So this documentary really part of it talks about what I just mentioned, but the, the main catalyst was again, [00:05:00] paying attention to current events and just continuing to see more articles about churches closing and more and more people walking away from the church and religion.And I think the tipping point Devana and for me was when I started doing some research about ministers and priests who were coming out. Right. I mean, I can't think of anything more taboo than coming out as a nonbeliever. If you're a priest or a minister. Religious, you know, someone in the clergy, nothing.I can't think of anything more taboo than that. So when I did re because I, I wasn't sure that there were people like that, but I started doing some research in 2017 just to see if I could find any stories about that. And that led me to something called the clergy project, which was a project dedicated specifically [00:06:00] to people like this.People in the clergy who had changed their minds about God and religion. And didn't have a place to go to kind of talk about it, get support. So the clergy project was started, I think in 2012 or something like that, specifically as a place for these people to go, to get, get Presa ministers, clergy, people, to kind of talk about their feelings, cuz they were in a lot of pain, right.It's almost, you know, it's like being L G B T or transgender. Right. And not having a place to go and talk about that. Right. You know, if you're, if you're in a society that is not supportive of who you are as a person and what you think and how you believe you're gonna be living a very isolated life with a lot of pain and feeling afraid to talk about these things are a big part [00:07:00] of who you are and what you, how you think.So. The clergy project was really intriguing to me. And that to me, was the tipping point. The idea of these priest ministers coming out, I thought would make an interesting documentary. I didn't think my story was that unique because there's just so many people who grew up religious and through circumstances over time, change their perspective on that.There's nothing really that unique about that. But when you start talking about clergy members who spent their career as, as a priest or minister or something like that, and then suddenly, or maybe not so suddenly, but for whatever reason to they no longer believe, I thought that was a very subject that deserved to be looked at.And I thought that would at least be the start of my documentary, where it went from there. I wasn't totally sure, but that was the, that was the tipping point for me to say I've gotta try making something [00:08:00] about this, cuz this is just too interesting.De'Vannon: Hmm. Yeah. So in the, in the video and that is a very interesting point. It, it seemed like it, it, the, the part about the clergy coming out was kind of sprinkled through it. And I seemed like it got a little bit more gritty about it towards the end. And I do have a lot of questions that I want to ask about the clergy, but before I get on that, I want to kind of kinda lay a bit of framework here.So, and I wanna read like, Like a, a quote from this, or from, from about the from about the film that I thought was interesting and says that the, the fastest growing religion in the United States seems to be no religion at all. [00:09:00] A 2016 study conducted by the public religion research Institute found that a quarter of the subject survey claim, no religious affiliate and this surprising figure increased substantially among the younger generation.Now in the video, it was showing like I think it was graphs or charts about how, how, how, how younger people like at each generation less and less, less and less seemed to have any sort of religious affiliation at all. And I thought that this was so interesting because like, I'm about to be 40 this year.And my boyfriend's 25. And so. And so, so all his friends are like in between like maybe 21 and 25, you know, somewhere around in that range. And when it comes to the matters of religion and stuff like that, all of them that I know of so far are the same way. They're just kind of like, we don't do religion, you know, we just don't have that.You know, it's not what they [00:10:00] do and stuff like that. And I thought about, you know, as to why this could be, you know, you know, what example do they have to really go of, you know, look at what look at what has become of the church, you know, with the, with the preachers leaving and what, how crazy religion looks on television?You know, you got all your evangelicals and all the Republican nonsense mixed into it, you know, why do you think that that so many young people specifically like young people are not interested in religion? I think it's because of the bad example that, that they have had to look at, but what do you think.John: Don't know. I think, you know, it doesn't really matter what I think. I think it's just, you know, I, what concerns me a little bit is when I talk about this film to people and tell them the title of it, they think that I'm anti God and that this film is about my opinion [00:11:00] and my bias against God. And that's not what the film is about.I mean, you watched it. This is a documentary and I, I approached it like an investigative journalist and then talking about what's happening. Starting with these priest ministers who are now leaving the church and then talking about the statistics of the general population and then weaving my personal story into it for, you know, the second half of the film.So I mean, I'm glad to give you my opinion, but my opinion doesn't really matter. I want people to come to their own, you know, come to their own conclusions. I'm no expert, I'm no theolo, you know, theologian it doesn't, you know, why people are leaving. Everyone's got their own reasons. I just, you know, I, I think that it doesn't the, the, I would guess that the younger people are leaving more and more are leaving religion in church is because it doesn't serve them in a, in [00:12:00] a way that it serve their parents.I mean, I can just tell you from my experience, I mean, the reason. I grew up religious is because my parents this was part of their tradition. It was just a thing to do on Sunday. You went to church and if you didn't, it was a sin. So there was, you know, some, some some of that fear of God and extend there to keep you, you know, going to church on, on Sunday. One of the things I point out in the film Devana and is one of the, the, the, the reasons, many people especially people of a certain age, younger people under, under 40 has been the internet because they have more access to information. If they're, if they wanna get, get the facts on stuff, they can, they can research it.So there was an interesting graph that I showed. In the film that that the, the shift away from religion began B about 30 years ago in the early to mid nineties. And it has increased significantly [00:13:00]since then for, you know, up, up until about the, the early nineties, it was about five to 7% of people who consider themselves nonreligious. But since since that time it's gone up significantly every year. And even since I made the film in 2016, it's gone up about 5%. When I made the film, I was using a, a pew research statistic from 2016 that said it was about 24% or 25%. And just two months ago, they came out with an update on that.It's now closer to 30%. So there is a parallel between people walking away from church, religion, and God, and use of the internet. So that may be a contributing factor. De'Vannon: Right? Well, I appreciate your, your insight on that. I love the sharing of insights and opinions, you know, because it's thought provoking, it'll still get people thinking, you know, and it'll still lead them to their own, [00:14:00] to their own conclusions, but sometimes people need that little nudge.And so, so speaking more on the preachers who came out, you know, it's so interesting whenever I hear the term coming out and using a reference, that's not G B T Q I a. And so But it still, it still echoes the same vulnerability and risk of exposure and fear that can mean coming out. And so yeah, on the video, you've got these preachers going on, television preachers who had, you know, were, had, you know, pretty high up and everything like that.Now they're no longer in these religions anymore because of various reasons. You know, and then there, and one of em, I just should say one of 'em was from Louisiana. One of the guys that I profiled Jerry, I can't remember his last name, but you may recall if you watch it recently. Devana and at the end of the film, I, I took some, some a clip from a New York times [00:15:00] documentary that followed this guy around for a while.John: And He had a really hard time. I mean, it's, it's hard enough coming out anywhere as a nonbeliever, but when you're in the deep south in a small town, Louisiana, I don't have to tell you what that's like. And his wife left him his congregation, you know, naturally turned on him. He was outta work.He had to leave the state eight. He basically, he, he was like a man without a country. And I don't know what he's doing now, but he really paid the price for coming out as a nonbeliever, which is why it's so courageous, I think to do it's like, you know, now I just watched a clip on tick to talk. Talking about the the Russian propaganda machine and they showed a clip of a Russian female newscaster, just, you know, like a robotically reading the script from Putin about what's going on and right behind her, there was a, a, a woman holding [00:16:00] up a, a sign saying this is all bullshit. They're you're telling you lies, just went up.It went viral. So it takes a lot of courage. I guess I'm making a parallel sometimes to stand up for what you believe, you know, you're gonna pay the price. So I, I, I, I can't tell you how much admiration and respect I have for people who are willing to come out for what they believe when it's not popular.De'Vannon: Right. And I found the interesting that when these preachers came out, it's like they turned. Into into like atheists. It's like the, the, cause a lot of the quotes you have towards the end of the film are like kind of like, you know, atheistic in nature. So I can kind of see how some of the people you were saying in the beginning, how some people might see that you might feel like you're Antigo.I kind of was thinking that too, by the end of the film, like I wonder if he's Antigo, like, I don't know. I'm gonna ask him about that. So where exactly [00:17:00] at your point in your life, do you stand on God? And then I want to get back to, to this vibe that I was getting from the preachers in the film. Okay. So I'm not John: Antigo. And just the quotes that you're referring to were from people like mark Twain mm-hmm and George Washington and people like that who made comments. That were very quotable that basically shared their opinion about God or church mm-hmm . So again, this is nothing about this film, this opinion, those were quotes from these people.And I think there's a lot of people in America that have a belief that this that our forefathers wrote the constitution based on a Christian perspective. And some of the quotes, I some of the people that I quote are from the founding fathers [00:18:00] kind of contradict that, that theory. So, and again, you can look up, you can research everything that I have in the movie. Is you is, is true. And you, you could, you could research it yourself, but I just thought it would be interesting to just share the perspective of some, some famous people who had perspectives on what I just talked about in the film about God and religion mm-hmm and, and church. So yeah, so I, I'm not Antigo, I don't really care what people believe as long as it doesn't mess with my life.You know what I'm saying? As long as they don't tell me that I've gotta, you know, I think the problem start, the problem I start having with, with religion is when it gets political, I, I really, you know, talking about our forefathers, anyone knows, who knows anything about the constitution knows that there's, there's a division between church and state John Adams, when he [00:19:00] wrote and, and Thomas Jefferson, when they constructed.The declaration of independence in the constitution were very clear about that. They wanted to make sure that unlike things in England and other countries, they didn't didn't want politics and, and religion to to cross pollinate. They wanted to have a definite separation between church and religion.They didn't wanna have any ministers telling people to be involved with people's rights as human beings and, and the things that they put in the, in the, the constitution. So what's happening is that, especially in the, in the Republican party they have crossed that line many times. I mean, I think religion has become a big part for many politicians, especially in the Republican party and the constitution and the declaration of independence [00:20:00] is very clear about keeping that separate De'Vannon: too true, too true.I say that all the time, but you know, here we are. So what, what, what interested me the else about the preachers in your film? It's like they went from being all about God and in the church and whenever whatever happened, it caused them to be done with that. Like, one of them was preaching like. Like kind of like, you don't need Donna.There is no, like you don't need, there is no divine power out there. You already have all, all the power that you need within you. So it's, it was like he abandoned all concepts of God all together and then he switched gears. And so, and it reminded me of how I felt when I got kicked out of Lakewood church in Houston, Texas, you know, for not being straight.And, and I, and I took a very negative reaction to that. And then I stopped associating with God and I never got to a point where I was like, he doesn't exist, but I stopped going to [00:21:00] church and everything like that because of the hurt that I received there. And so, which was, which was an immature to, for me to do, I shouldn't have done that.I should have, you know, I taken a more positive approach to that. Got some counseling, went to a gay affirming church and not let what happened at Lakewood cause me to stop, you know, my faith all together. Are John: you or at Lakewood? Is that Joel Stein, right? Oh, wow. Okay. De'Vannon: So and so and so I have a blog about that on my website and I go into detail and in my memoir, but you know, I wasn't, you know, I'm not straight.And I was, you know, singing the adult choir. I was teaching the kids ministry worship leading in the kids ministry. And I applied for a job there. They went look up, looked up my social media on MySpace page as a part of their application process, cuz the, the 2, 2, 2 or three years that I've volunteered there four or five, you know, at least what 1, 2, 4 days a week at the church, wasn't enough to vouch for my, my work ethic.[00:22:00] They needed to go ask my space as well. And so while, while they were looking, they saw that I was hanging out in S which is the gay district in Houston. And I had a really RA photo on my cover. So because of that, they fired me from all the aspects of ministry and everything like that. And so. And so that's John: how they, so what did they, did they give you a reason for that to van on when they fired you?Did they tell you, why did they say, you know, we don't like gay people. De'Vannon: She said that you can't be doing that hanging out there with them. Ah John: so did you ask her to be more,go there with them. I love that. De'Vannon: so it was on me because I shouldn't have lied on the application. When I filled out the application, the volunteer in the kids ministry, they had on their straight up, like, we don't want gay people were being around our children [00:23:00] and you know, the mind that I have now, really, they actually John: had that.Yes, that was on in, in writing. In writing. Yes. And this is Joel Olsteen's church saying we don't want, hold on a second.We don't the, we don't want gay people hanging around our children, correct. With Joel Olstein church. Okay. De'Vannon: And so, okay, John: go ahead. I wonder what he, I wonder what he would say if he was interviewed about that and confronted with that on their application. I wonder how he would answer that you should get him on your show. Davanonhe would make a great kiss for you. De'Vannon: I don't know what I would ever say if I was face to face with him, but, you know, I don't know how good it would go. I need to, I need to mature my war before that day comes. So, but I thought, John: I thought they're [00:24:00] supposed to love everyone. De'Vannon: You know, churches are not like that.You know, they are, they have an agenda. Every church has an agenda. Tell me about it. And you know, but for all, and it's not just. And that sort of stuff happens at all kinds of churches. The Hillsong church in Australia, which are very good friends with Lakewood church have the same policy. And they're very bold about it.They're like no gay people can be on staff or volunteer here. They said it countless times. They don't give a fuck. So, and but you know, the mind that I have now, if I ever come across that on an application or something, then I know that that's simply not the organization for me to be at, but I had just got out of the military serving during don't ask don't tell.And so I was conditioned to function in an environment where I couldn't fully be myself. So I just thought it was another Don as don't tell situation. I've had some PE, some legal friends of mine tell me that it's not legal for a church to do that. I didn't even know that it even much gotten to the realm of illegality.You know, I just was like, well, [00:25:00] I wanna volunteer. I'm not trying to like, fuck any children or anything like that. So. That's, you know, and especially with the litany of paperwork, you know, they do like full background checks and every damn thing on new social security numbers, you know, and everything just to volunteer.It's not like, it's not like I'm gonna give them all of that information on me, how to find me and everything to go in there and commit a crime. It's like the dumbest thing John: did you van, and I'm curious is because I don't know if it's legal or not, but I would wonder about that. Did you ever do any research on that or speak to any legal authorities to find out if that's De'Vannon: true?No. And even because by the time I got done with all of my nervous breakdown and everything that that helped to contribute to we're talking a good10 years after, so whatever statute of limitations, I was sure it would've been pass that, but it would never hurt to look into cuz I didn't, I think the person who I was talking to said it gets into the realm of like discrimination or something like that. [00:26:00] And so, which made sense when they said it, but I was so.Fucked up in my head whenever they fired me from volunteering that I, that I couldn't, I couldn't even much, I didn't think I was just like, okay, well fuck them. And so, but, but the preacher in the film reminded me of that because when he was talking about how he doesn't really believe in God anymore, we don't.And you know, it sounded to me like he was coming from like a place of pain and it sounded like he was still hurting from that. And it really reminded me of how I was back then. And I wonder, you know, in the future, once he's healed, you know, if all of that, if he would still be like, you know, anti, he was very more like, like anti guy.And he was saying like, there's nothing Toine, you know? And so, so I, I, so I wanna encourage people, you know, Not to conflate church and God, you know, those are two separate things, religion, and [00:27:00] God are two separate things. And the confusion that I had when I got kicked outta Lakewood was I didn't separate the two.And so when the church rejected me, I took that as though God had rejected me and I allowed that to it cause a rift where there should not have been a rift, you know? And I feel like, well, they're John: pretty, you have to admit, they're pretty connected. religion and God. Right. De'Vannon: Well, when I say religion, I mean denominations like denominations churches, the physical manifestation of what God is supposed to be, they are connected.But at the same time, it's like, they're not, it's like when two people are married, they're connected and they do become one in many ways. But at the same time, they're very much still individuals and, and everything that a preacher says is not. The divine voice of God. And every decision at a church makes is not the divine will of God.And so we gotta learn how to put them together when they are together, but how to separate them when they need to be separated. [00:28:00] Cuz they're not always in tandem. John: So divine and I'm gonna make a suggestion to you. I, I it sounds like you're not ready to have, have Joel Olstein as a guest on your show, but here's someone that you might, you might be open to because while you were talking about refr referencing that, that minister in my film, I just remembered the guy's name.And he is, he is the guy from Louisiana. His name is Jerry Dewitt, D E w I T T. So if he's written a couple of books he's had a podcast. So if you pop him into Google I think he will find him. Jerry that's J Jerry with a J E R R Y D E w I T T. And you could, you could invite him on your show and ask him these questions yourself.He might, you know, since you're a Louisiana boy and, and he is too he might, he might be to be on your guest mm-hmm [00:29:00] and, you know, talk to a homeboy De'Vannon: I'll reach out. You never know what could be. It would be great. Yeah. To talk to someone who used to be in clergy who left. Yeah. You know, I'm coming from a, from a volunteer perspective, he's coming from a, from aler clergy's per perspective.That could be pretty kick ass. Yeah. So, John: so, so like I said, I don't, you know, I, I, I kind of, I get off on a tangent there, but you know, as far as my feelings about. Being against God. Again, I, I don't this is a free country. People are free to be who they are and believe in what they want to, as long as it doesn't mess with my life.And the only way someone's belief in a particular religion or God would mess with my life is it's that starts getting involved with politics. For example, if I was a woman and I believed in abortion and I had some [00:30:00] co you know, ultra conservative or evangelical Congress, people who were trying to overturn Roe versus the, the, he weighed, then I would probably have a problem with that.Do you know what I'm saying De'Vannon: as do I, and you know, the crazy thing about it is the whole concept of what God is. It's subjective. Everybody's gonna have a different opinion about that. How to interpret scripture as subjective. Everybody's gonna have a different opinion about that. You know, there's, there's precedent in the Bible about why it's not a good idea to try to establish laws against people based on your personal beliefs.And that is, that is the main takeaway that I get from the convert version story of SA, because what did Saul do before he became Paul? He was a big person in the San Hedron. The San Hedron was a part of the religious people who governed, you know, over there in the middle east. He went to them, got permission to go and [00:31:00] persecute people who were not living according to his opinion of how they should.That's exactly what it was. I believe in this. They're not living how I think they should. So I'm gonna go make them do it. That was his whole point of going to Damascus and Jesus knocks him off his horse, the blinding light, the whole story. We know how it goes. And Jesus is like, yo dude, cut this shit out.This is not how I want you to go about it. And that's exactly what Republicans are doing when they say, Hey, we think those people over there should live a different way. Let's go make some laws to force 'em it's the same thing. But when they read through the Bible, they're not reading about it on how to improve themselves.They're reading. If they read it at all, you know, is about how to change other people. And when I was in seminary, before I left seminary, one of the reasons I left seminary was cuz one of the professors was just like, yeah, we want to control people in churches. And he said this as, just as just like the sky is [00:32:00] blue.And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? so, and John: he actually said he wants to control people. Yes. He was at the law, profess least he was on, at least he was honest about De'Vannon: it. At least he was honest, but I was, but it wasn't just him, but all the classmates were nodding in agreement. Like they didn't have a problem with what this man was saying.And so he was like, and he was coming from a Baptist background if I recall correctly. And, and I was just like, no, we would not be controlling people. it's not what this is about. But, but the Republican culture and everything like that is so much about control, which I believe stems from insecurities and fear within people cuz confident, happy.People don't go about the business of trying to make life miserable for other people. , you know, it's just not what we do. We're too busy being happy. so, right, right. John: And so, well, they think they're on a mission. This is what, what the problem I have with religion and ultra religious people is because [00:33:00] they feel like they're on a mission from God and they're doing in God's will it's the same motive behind the, do you know, have you heard of the crusades?Do you know what the crusades were about? Are you to history? Yes. Okay. Do you know, do you know what the crusades De'Vannon: are about? Yeah. That's getting into the church, like prosecuting people and I think like heritage fix, you know, and maybe John: like the crusades, the crusades were A mission done. I think they were done in the, in the 10 or 11 hundreds that were initiated by a couple of popes during that time period where they felt that they were on a mission from God to convert the people who were not Christians and sent all their troops kind of, kind of like what Putin is doing to Ukraine. These guys did to the middle east, they got all their, their armies and their weapons, and they went on a mission from God, their, on their, on their [00:34:00] shirts, the van, their would be these big red crosses. They, they that's how they identified themselves. These big, giant red crosses. They were, they were so Christian soldiers and they got these huge forces and they marched into the middle east.And they just started slaughtering people because it was easy for them to do because when you, when you look at people who don't think the way you do or look the way you do, it's easy to minimize them. Right. And it's easier to to do bad stuff to them because you think that they're less right? They're, they're, Heins, they're nonbelievers, so it's an easy excuse to kill them.And, and that's what the, the crusades were about. They were doing. They totally believe they were on a mission from God. And in God's name, just murdered. Tens of thousands of people. I mean, look it up. It's pretty, pretty scary. De'Vannon: Yeah. I do have [00:35:00] that I wrote a blog about that and I have a, a link and they called it like, I think like the inquisition and I think they labeled people as like heretics and I think there was like a, that's John: a different that's that's, that's similar, but different.Okay. Similar that is different than the crusades. Okay. But same idea. You know, going after people that don't think a certain way, that's, that's the, the common thread between the two. De'Vannon: That makes sense. But, but John: I, you know, I'm making a parallel, you mentioned the Republicans and again, the parallel that they believe that many of them are evangelical.And if I, if I'm, if I'm Understand it correctly is that the whole idea is that you've gotta basically convert everyone to think the way you do evangelize. That's the whole premise of E even I can't even say evangelism to, to, you know, go out and witness and change [00:36:00] people and convert people. And to your minister's point, control people, you know, that's not uncommon that he was evangelical.You said, and that's what he said to you. And that that's what many evangelicals believe they might not be. So honest about it. You know, Joel may not admit that that's what he is looking to do. That you've gotta be a certain way. You've gotta look a certain way. You've gotta have a certain sexuality.You've gotta conform to their version of the Bible. And if you don't off with your head, That, De'Vannon: that mentality seemed to kind of like prevail because when they fired me, they let me know that I wasn't the first one, they were like, we do this all the time. , you know, you know, the, they did offer, you should have John: been wearing a wire.You should have been wearing a wire. So you had that on, on, on all De'Vannon: audio. Well, you know, this is back like. Gosh, [00:37:00] and maybe like 2008, 2009. So the concept of everything being recorded and being so available, I think we may have just been converting from flip phones and shit, you know, and pages, you know, technology.Wasn't like, you know, everything, wasn't like, Ooh, I got you on camera. You know? Yeah, no, no, I'm John: just I and De'Vannon: facetious. But I've thought about that before, like how great it would be if I, if I could, if I would've had that recorded, you know, and stuff like that. But I had no idea that that's what they would've done.Cause I thought maybe I was gonna actually be getting hired or something, but instead, instead I got fired. Well you, when you saw, when you watched my doc, I I had a somewhat similar situation where I received a letter from the church saying don't come to Bible study anymore. Remember that part in the film.Right. Right. Because you cause you, you y'all had an interesting thing going on where you had a singles ministry at this church now we're in New York city and it was like the marble something collegiate marble [00:38:00] collegiate church. And the singles group was twenties and thirties. You were in your forties and they had a real strict thing about that.So they would, as you say, in the film, tap people on the shoulder in a way and tell them, Hey, you're too old. So stop coming here. And John: so what was, well, it wasn't, it wasn't let me just interrupt you. It wasn't real strict. Because we're talking about as an experience in the film or part in the film.I talk about experience. I had, where I was kind of dragged into a Bible study. I really wasn't interested in going, but someone dragged me into this thing. It was after the, the Sunday sermon and there were probably 40 people in there and there were quite a few people in there that were over 40. I looked around and I was not the, I was maybe 45, 46 at the time. So I I was reluctant to go because I thought it was strict. I thought, you know, you get carted at the door to make sure you're, you're under 40, which you know, is kind of silly when you think of a church, both about how inclusive they are [00:39:00] to restrict a Bible study to people of a certain age. I don't really understand the logic behind that, but I certainly was not the only one who was over 40. And, and even though that's the reason that they gave me in the letter that I shouldn't continue going the real reason is I suspect something that was quite different that I mentioned in the film. De'Vannon: Right? Because you challenged the the preacher, he asked the question. And then your, he asked if anyone had any questions during this Bible study and your question was something like, what is truth?Oh, no, your question was, is it true? Correct. And then he was silent. He really couldn't say much. And then you said something to kind of help him out of the rabbit hole that, that he found him. And then he said something like, truth is objective or like, what is truth? Right. John: Which was a pretty lame answer.As far as I was concerned. well, churches do, but, but it [00:40:00] was, it was shortly thereafter that I received a letter saying we really value you as person and don't come to Bible study anymore. You're too old. De'Vannon: Right, but in the video, you know, and that sucks that that happened to you. But in the video you said that, that, that, that did happen to other people.And then you observed that those people not only stopped going to the group, but they stopped going to the church as well. And I, I, and I, and that's a very, I thought that was very interesting point because sometimes when I tell people say I got kicked out of lake, it, they go that they tell you, you can't come back.And then I have to make it clear. When you kick a person out of one, part of a church, you kick them out of the whole church because it makes it very fucking awkward. When you try to go back there, it feels weird. It feels, I don't even have a word for it. It feels alien. Suddenly you just don't, it feels like a whole different world.When someone's told you that you, [00:41:00] for being who you are being the age or who you choose to love how old you are or whatever physical characteristic you have or something that. You really can't help. We don't want you here. John: well, it makes you feel like you're not fully accepted, De'Vannon: right? So you don't have to say bitch, leave the whole church and don't come back.You know, just telling someone to get out of any part of it, because a church is, is not supposed to be like that. You can't like everyone come on in, the doors are open, but we only want certain, certain of you in certain portions of the church, you know, that just doesn't work that way. Well, what John: I, what I, what I've discovered dev van en sounds like you've discovered it as well, is what churches say and what they do are often very different things.De'Vannon: This is true. And a big part of my ministry, my calling, whatever you want to refer to it as is to get people to a point where [00:42:00] they can. See, what, what is real and what is fake and understand, like you say, in your video, that just because someone's a preacher doesn't mean that they are right, or that they're gonna be right all the time.They're just human. And and so, so we gotta take these preachers and pastors off of these pedestals, we gotta take these churches off of these pedestals. Now, you know, a word came up called, try that somebody in your film said, and I thought that that was very interesting. And he said that our tribal instincts can override our rational thought of a writer.One once upon a time said, no, man is an island. Okay. Because we have this innate sense to, to congregate. Be it gangs to be it in a church. Be it. And the military, you know, this, this, this there's this group, you know, we need each other. And so we are always gonna find some kind of way. When I got kicked outta church, I replaced the church group with the, with the nightlife.And then I began to dive deeper into like the clubs and stuff like that. And that's ultimately how I became a [00:43:00] drug dealer. And I didn't know it then, but we're gonna always and seek out communities some kind of way, because that's just how we're designed. And then in the case of, and then we let our need for community override our rational.So we'll stay at the church and listen to the preacher and try to be involved. Even though we've seen things that we know don't make sense, you know, and we rationalize it a way.Which ain't good. You know, if we see something and it doesn't make sense, then that should be addressed. If if the priest are abusing the altar boys or different people, we can't just sweep it under the rug and rationalize it away and go, oh, I'll just stay right. John: Well, it's almost like being in a bad marriage, right?You're you're in a marriage and you get used to it. I, and the longer you're in it, the more you're willing to accept bad behavior because you're kind of used to it. And you kind of you rationalize that while there's a lot of good [00:44:00] in it. Because it's hard to walk away. I mean, a church for many people and certainly was with me was a very big part of my life.Mm-hmm so it's easy to rationalize. Well, it's not perfect. And no church, what church is perfect. Right? And it's, you know, it's a very, and listen, I don't fault people for thinking that way to each his own, you know, they're right. Nothing is totally perfect. The church that I went to in New York, wasn't perfect.But the reason I stayed involved with it as long as I did is be because of tribalism, I, I looked forward to seeing my friends every Sunday. Sometimes I would just skip the sermon and I'd go straight to the coffee hour, just so I could hang out with my friends. That was very, very, a big, important part of my life in New York city that I valued.But once I got over were 40 and was not so welcome in the, in the singles group, they really didn't have a singles group for I'm trying to think. Oh yeah, they [00:45:00] did have a singles group for people. Over 40 and everyone was 70. So I remember Dick dip dipping my toe in there when I was like 42. And the next youngest person to me was like 63.So I did not feel like trying to ingratiate myself to a new group with people were you know, 10, 15, 20 years older than me, especially when I'd been just part of a group for the past 15 years of people, many, many people just, you know, a couple of years younger than me. So I didn't really, I, I didn't like the fact that they had a hard cutoff at 40, you know, I, I, I just thought that didn't make a whole lot of sense.Like, what are they trying to tell you that if you're not married by the time you're 40, you're a loser, you know, which is kind of what they were saying. At least that's a message. That's how I interpreted. De'Vannon: In, in other churches, Lakewood and other churches too. Have, [00:46:00] you know, the, the groups divided by ages, I think just either have a singles fucking group or don't have one regardless of the age, because a 20 year old, a 20 year old may be attracted to a 60 year old.You know, the very concept of that is trying to act like is trying to force people into a certain age range. That's very presumptuous. John: Yeah. And, you know, listen, it, it it really hurt a lot of people. I mean, I was just a little perturbed by it, but there are a lot of women very attractive, smart career women in New York city, right.Who spend most of their twenties and thirties focusing on their career, which is very much the case of the kind of women you meet in New York city. So, you know, here they are Approaching 40. Right. And now suddenly they're thinking, gee I, I, I do I wanna have a family? Do I wanna switch gears here? I'm still single. But at least church is a big part of my life. And then having a, being, having them [00:47:00] get tapped on the shoulder saying us, sorry, you're out of this group. I mean, that was a pretty big deal for a lot of those women who were really, really hurt by the fact that they were no longer welcome.Welcome in this single group is hard enough for anyone to turn 40. You're gonna be turning 40, but especially at think in our society for women. I don't think, you know, our society is rarely friendly to women that you know, of a certain age, older women. So that's a pretty big birthday for many women.And on top of dealing with that on an emotional, psychological level to have your church saying sorry we, you really can't come to this group anymore group that they may have been a part of for 5, 10, 15 years, where all their friends were to get, you know, tapped outta that group. That makes no sense to me, especially coming from a church that on their website says how inclusive [00:48:00] they are and welcoming they are to everyone.De'Vannon: Yeah. And then it just, its a certain type of.That I just, it just can't be described because you think about the money that you've given to the church and the time you spent volunteering and stuff like that, it does feel like a marriage or some sort of relationship and to be dismissed from it, for any for, and unless you've done something bad against the church and like stolen their money or actually done something, then maybe they could say something, but they still shouldn't dismiss you.It feels like a bad breakup. And John: for me it means bad. It's bad business. I have to say, you know, from a business perspective, listen, every, every church is paying attention to their finances. Right? So the last thing you want to do is do something that's going to Get people to leave your church, especially when you're in your early forties, [00:49:00] in New York city, you're in your prime earning years.And this is what I mentioned in the film. Why would you wanna do something that upsets someone enough that they're gonna walk away from, from the church and stop giving their charitable contributions? I mean, the church, their lifeblood are, is charitable contributions. So, you know, loosen up a little bit with your, with your rules on Bible studies.You know, I mean, gimme a freaking break here and stop scaring people away or not scaring people away, but push people away with a stupid rule. Like, you know, an age thing. It just, it just made no sense to me. And when I brought that to the attention of the minister minister, who I knew was interested.In keeping people coming to the church because he hired me to do an ad campaign to attract more people. So I knew he was very concerned about attracting and keeping people to, to [00:50:00] the church. I didn't understand why he just kind of dismissed the fact that that people were leaving the church because they felt as you said, you kick 'em outta one group.They're not gonna feel welcome. If that's the main connection to the church, there's a good chance that they're gonna stop coming to that church. If they can't continue going to that group where all their friends are,De'Vannon: these are decisions that people make when they're not accustomed to being rejected or being told they can't come places.So, you know, people. You would hope to not to get that same sort of behavior from people who are, have been the victim of discrimination and all kinds of prejudice throughout life, but people who have always been accepted will never get why, why, why do they, why, why did they just leave? You know, we only kicked them outta one part.We don't see what the big is. That's right. That's right. So right. But you know, when I think about preachers like that, I hope and pray that they [00:51:00] didn't start out with cold hearts. You know, you know, my, my spiritual leader told me that, you know, a preacher is either gonna be really, really strong or really, really weak.And that, that, that there's no in between. And so it, to me, like maybe these preachers start out with the best of intentions, but in the process of time, as the congregation grows, as the money grows, you know, or something like that, maybe their, maybe their motives get corrupt, but, and they don't even realize that it's happening, cuz it happens so gradually. You know, maybe it is all at once, but there's not much we can do about that, but I want church people and people who still look up the preachers and listen at what they say to become, to have a greater level of scrutiny that they, than what they have now to actually judge what the preachers saying and not just accept that it's fact.And if some foolishness shows up, then the whole, their priest you're accountable, they don't get to get away with things and, you know, and, you know, and, and things matter like that. [00:52:00] Right. You a quote that you had in here, which stuck out in my nogging a concerning your, your marriage, you know, you, you know, you, your divorced man, and you talk about that.In the film. You said, if I had to pick a moment, when my attitude about God began to sour, this would be it you're talking about a woman that you had met in church. I think it may have been in the singles group that I'm not sure. Yeah, but like it, wasn't the singles group, you in church, everything's going great.All the boxes are checked, but a few weeks later there's trouble. You, you said you felt betrayed by her in, by God. John: So for your listeners I'll do a little ex explaining here in the film. I talk about a woman. I met at church in the singles group that I got married to. And the quote that Devana just referred to was [00:53:00] the quote that I said in the film that Happened the day I got married in the church that if there was a time that my attitude about church and God began to sour this would be it the day that I got married at the church.And the reason I said that, and as I share in the film is that despite the fact that I met this woman in church, and I thought the marriage was ordained by God. Our marriage went downhill immediately. I mean, immediately it was a crash and burn that could never have predicted, and I didn't understand it. It like, it was like my wife had become turned into a different person. Immediately after we got married, I didn't understand what was going on. It seemed pretty clear that even though she gave me an ultimatum, it's kind of ironic because I wasn't so [00:54:00] sure about getting married and it took her giving me an ultimatum to make the decision to get married. And, but once I made that decision, I was, I was committed. But my wife's attitude seemed not, seemed, definitely changed immediately after we got married. And I was blindsided by it and I couldn't in it because as I said, I thought this marriage and this relationship was ordained by God.So it really challenged. My beliefs in God, when the marriage started going downhill and we were in marriage counseling and I was impersonal, we were in personal counseling, but she got involved with another guy. And didn't seem that interested in getting back with me. So, so it didn't really matter how much I tried, if I'm with a partner who is not exhibiting behavior to support the idea of [00:55:00]being in a marriage anymore. And we went through, we were separated for almost three years, so I was not willing to give up on the marriage, even after I found out that she had been involved with another guy, I was willing to continue to work on the marriage and try to get it back on track. She did not seem to have that similar perspective.And so that kind of changed my attitude about things being ordained by God. And that's when I began questioning the whole idea of God and all that stuff. Why? But I thought our marriage was based on that. Why De'Vannon: did you think it was ordained by God? What did God did God tell you something that he speak to you in some way to make you believe?John: Well, first of all, I met the woman in church, so that's a good start, right? When you meet someone in church, you think, okay, maybe God has something to do with bringing us together because it is God's house, right? [00:56:00] That's what church is supposed to big God's De'Vannon: house. I'll say that that's an assumption that a lot of us make.And I used to be that way when I attended churches and I was in singles groups too. And that that's a pitfall. I wanna warn people right now, not to get into, as you walk through life with God and you gain spiritual understanding, don't go put God's mouth on things. You know, if he didn't speak, just cuz you're in church and you meet some woman or some dude or whatever.That don't mean automatically that you should run off and marry them as they say, not everyone in church is saved, you know, and not, not everything, not everything that happens under his roof is ordained by him. But see, we get caught up in our emotions and stuff like that. And then, and then, and the stuff the preachers are telling us, and then we, sometimes we wanna say that that's the voice of, of God when God didn't actually speak.And so, so basically you're saying y'all met in church. All the, the boxes are being checked. This looks like it would be of God, but God didn't necessarily speak to you personally. [00:57:00] Well, John: I thought I had a supernatural experience to Von. Okay. In addition to what I just said beyond the fact that we met in church and our relationship blossomed at church events and retreats that we attended together, but there was one experience that I, I was, I had convinced myself was a supernatural met that I received from God.And that was when we were sitting in church one Sunday morning. And as the minister was preaching about something to do with God's love and bringing people together, whatever he was talking about at the moment he was talking about God's love and loving people. I felt myself. Bathed in light and brightness.And the reason I felt that way is because there was a beam of light that was coming through one of the stain glass windows and was shining directly on me and my [00:58:00] girlfriend at the time. So it was a very, very directed beam of light that was just hitting the, the window at a certain way. That for at least maybe a minute or two was illuminating, the two of us.And I said, oh my God, this is the sign. Because I at the am, we had been going out for a while and I think she had been kind of hinting at getting married. And I, I still had some doubts about whether or not this was something I, I was ready to do. So when that experience happened to me, I thought it was a sign by a sign from God.De'Vannon: Do you still think it was? No. So if it wasn't a sign from God, do you think maybe you kinda like ma made it up or just, just, this is what you believe, what you were wrong. John: Listen, when you, when you're, when you're indoctrinated into religious thought, right. It's easier for [00:59:00] you to justify natural things as supernatural De'Vannon: Uhhuh.yeah, that does happen too. So we, so we wanna avoid that. We wanna gain discernment. We wanna always be praying for discernment so we can see the truth of things. And but you know, to me, like, You know, with her, you know, seeing the other guy she's actually having sex with him, she's become an adultist, you know, at this point, you know, you know, was she that, you know of, you said she was seeing the other guy, do you know she was sleeping with him?Yes. Cuz I asked her. Okay. And so that's according to G she and John: she, and she admitted it. De'Vannon: Oh, she was a bold bitch, you know? And according to Jesus' teachings, you know, the only reason that people can lawfully get divorces in the case of infidelity. So it's almost like God was giving you a way out through this, whether you wanted to take it, you know, or not, at least the door was [01:00:00] open to, to the divorce legally, this, this brings me to another issue I take with people who take issue with people, meaning like you're.Straight people, quote, unquote, your Republicans and everything like that. And these preachers who are on like their fifth marriage and shit who get divorced all the time, for reasons other than infidelity, but in the Bible, you know, Jesus said, if you get divorced for any reason, other than infidelity, then that's wrong.And this voice he's concerned that you're still married. Yet. We find in churches all across the land that people in, all these unions have been divorced, but it was not for infidelity. And somehow it's perfectly okay. And then they continue on preaching against gay people and women who won get, get, get abortions and everything like that.But they don't really preach too much about how you're supposed to stay married unless it's for infidelity. So that's one of my pet peeves that I have now. I don't go around judging people who were divorced for reasons other than infidelity. Cuz I don't care. [01:01:00] Cuz like you said, what, what they're doing and who they're fucking don't affect me.But since they wanna have problems with other people, you know, I bring it up because there's they're because they're hypocrites. Now you, during this time you went to go see a, a preacher, a priest or whatever, cuz he is, this is a Catholic church, right? Not a Catholic church. Okay. No, no. This is a preacher. And and he told you to stay married. He's like divorce is not the way, but then later on he would get like, I think two divorces or something like that.And I don't think he was removed from that post from being a preacher. And so how did that make? He was, John: he was the, he was the head minister of the church that I'd been going to for 15 years. De'Vannon: Okay. He was a head minister. He told you not to get divorced later on. He gets a divorce twice, twice. How did that, how did that make you feel?John: Well, what do you think?De'Vannon: I might have said some John: exploitation. The, the H I, you, I think you [01:02:00] said it earlier, it's the H word hypot. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I can't think of anything more hypocritical than someone telling you, you shouldn't get divorced and then they get divorced, not once, but twice.I mean, that's the definition of hypocritical and it extends De'Vannon: beyond that because he didn't get removed from that position. I mean, us, both of those wives cheated on him and he had the lawful way out, but yet they're removing people for being two years over the age limit. You know, in, in the singles John: group?Well, I wasn't removed just to be clear the van and I wasn't removed from church. I just got a letter saying, please don't come to this group anymore. De'Vannon: all right. That makes it so much more palatable. John: I wanna be clear. I don't wanna, I don't wanna unfairly you know, trust the church. I still have the letter by the way.So, De'Vannon: but people I've talked. I talked to [01:03:00] someone before who got divorced and they removed him from his volunteer positions in church. So it's very interesting, you know, but you know, those, those double standards get applied everywhere you go. When I was in the middle was the same way. Somebody who was like to say is their first year in the air force.If they got a DUI, they get kicked out. If they were got, if they were caught drinking underage. But if they, someone who had been in there 20 years did the same thing. They wouldn't be treated as harshly, you know, The standards, they just don't seem to apply when you get higher up in organizations. Mm-hmm so the last thing I wanna talk about before we wrap this up is a little bit about Catholicism.I love to throw, throw shade at the Catholic church because I don't, I, I really, I have, I have no disrespect for Catholic people. I just think that is one huge mind. Fuck. And I cannot understand [01:04:00] where they come up with all of these damn rules and shit that have nothing to do with the Bible. And I guess the popes made it up or someone who's supposed to be holy made it up.And then therefore it is believed by people, but the, the billions of people who make up the Catholic church and give the church it's power and things like that. And I just don't see what they're getting. In return. The Bible tells us not to pray to angels and to anyone, but God, and they're praying all these saints, there's all these dead people.There's all these robes and all this kneeling. When I, when I went one time and I was like, am I sucking Dick in the sanctuary today? Or what is going on? Why am on, on my knee? well, of my needs were half the John: service. Well, hopefully you weren't doing that in church, Savannah. It De'Vannon: would've made it worth it . If, if, if, while I was down there, one time someone had stuck something in my mouth.So I'm gonna quote you again. You had some interesting one [01:05:00] liners, John: if you have, well, there might have been a few priests that would be happy De'Vannon: to accommodate you. I think I would've been too old for them at the right age. I think I might have been in my twenties and you know, and then the right age of 21, you know, they seem much too old for them.And so, you know, you never know. So you sad in here. I don't know if you have any books, man, but if not, I think you should write one. Cause you have some interesting one-liners in their, in this film. So referring to Catholic sex, sex education, you said to get a basic sex education, you need to be taught by people who had sex, who actually had sex, who actually had sex.So you were talking about getting sex education from like these crazy ass looking nuns and stuff like that. So just tell us, as we begin to wrap up about your Catholic experience and what you think of the Catholic church. John: So in the film I talk about going to parochial school, junior high school which was [01:06:00]13, 14, 15 years old.And one of the required courses was weekly courses was a course in religion and they kind of cross pollinated religion and sex education with, I guess, you know, they could only hire so many teachers and I guess they couldn't have a dedicated teacher teaching sex education and a Catholic school.So the, the teacher was teaching religion integrated some what, what they considered sex education. I would say sex lack of education would be a better way to phrase it. And one of the things they I was told at the age of 13 was that I'm, I'm trying to remember cuz it was quite a while ago, but the clear message I got was that you really should not be having sexual thoughts in your head.And if you do or do it too much, or don't turn your brain off immediately, once that sex sexual [01:07:00] thought pops in your head, if you don't immediately shut that down, you're walking on thin, thin ice with Jesus and, and you, you don't wanna, you don't wanna sin in against Jesus now, do you? So that was kind of the message I got is that it would be a, a sin or could be a sin against Jesus.If you don't shut down really quickly, any sexual thought about you know, my case, naked women or naked girls that, that pop into your head, you, which is a pretty big mind fuck to tell a 13 year old kid. And I have to tell you when you're, whe
Guest: Arthur AndersonCo Host: NASCAR P 13k In this episode: Social Bubbles () Children having cellphones () Why Donald Trump won () Rondo's spiritual advisor () Mos Def () Mountain bike with and engine, Gas bikes 80cc attachment () My book is career suicide () Legion Season 2 () Jim Carey doc () Is God really a man? () Joel Olsteen $1,000 suit () The alpha factor () Ecstasy originally was legal and used in therapy ()Pod Picks: ‘Origami' by Lord Chow on SoundCloud, ‘Rolling Stone' by Falling In Reverse, ‘Modern Marvel' by Mos Def, ‘Mortal Man‘ by Kendrick LamarTune into the Rondo Show and his friends and follow the entire journey of these very layered human beings. The show covers numerous topics ranging from today's society, music to arts, but primarily focuses on self improvement, love and healing and what it means to be an artist or creator in the present.We encourage humans all over to inspire a better future around them. EXCLUSIVE Content available on Patreon now!!! Become a Patron.
Guest: Arthur AndersonCo Host: NASCAR P 13k In this episode: Social Bubbles () Children having cellphones () Why Donald Trump won () Rondo's spiritual advisor () Mos Def () Mountain bike with and engine, Gas bikes 80cc attachment () My book is career suicide () Legion Season 2 () Jim Carey doc () Is God really a man? () Joel Olsteen $1,000 suit () The alpha factor () Ecstasy originally was legal and used in therapy ()Pod Picks: ‘Origami' by Lord Chow on SoundCloud, ‘Rolling Stone' by Falling In Reverse, ‘Modern Marvel' by Mos Def, ‘Mortal Man‘ by Kendrick LamarTune into the Rondo Show and his friends and follow the entire journey of these very layered human beings. The show covers numerous topics ranging from today's society, music to arts, but primarily focuses on self improvement, love and healing and what it means to be an artist or creator in the present.We encourage humans all over to inspire a better future around them. EXCLUSIVE Content available on Patreon now!!! Become a Patron.
INTRODUCTION:Luanne loves unpacking tough subject matter that others may find hard to discuss. She's drawn to gritty realism and believes there are others out there who share her curiosity about taboo topics. Luanne has a witty sense of humor and loves finding ways to connect with other people. Luanne is originally from Kentucky and spent her career as a creative writing and film professor at West Chester University outside Philadelphia. She has published literary fiction and poetry in journals, and she continues to write her own work as well as editing these three anthologies: Runaway, Taboos and Transgressions: Stories of Wrongdoings and the one we are currently working on, Muddy Backroads: Stories From Off the Beaten Path. Luanne likes gritty writing, and she champions women writers who are often criticized for tackling darker subjects in fiction. Her fiction has appeared in Puerto del Sol, The Texas Review, Oxford Magazine and other literary journals and anthologies. She has published poetry and nonfiction as well. Luanne has hosted well-received AWP Conference panels focused on women writers and the challenges women face writing gritty material and bad-ass female characters. She last presented a panel on the double-standard women writers encounter compared to men when writing sexual content. Luanne still has her Kentucky accent and her blue collar upbringing stays with her in spite of over 30 years as an academic. The lady has a good sense of humor, even if she prefers gritty writing, and she has way more tattoos than what her mother approved of. INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):· An Argument in Favor of Tattoos· The Importance of Living True to Yourself · Insight Into the Writing Process· Coming Out Through Writing· My Advice to Republicans· The True Meaning of Freedom· Is God a Stickler for Rules?· Jerry Falwell Jr. Fuckery· Challenging Religious Bullshit· Why We Need to Get Over Pastors and Church LeadershipCONNECT WITH LUANNE: Website: https://luanne-smith.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/luanne.smith.562 CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonEmail: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS:· Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs · Upwork: https://www.upwork.com · FreeUp: https://freeup.net · Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org · American Legion: https://www.legion.org INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?:· PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon TRANSCRIPT:[00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: Hey everyone. And welcome back to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast. I'm so thankful to have you with me again. One more week today, I'm talking with a lady by the name of Luanne Smith and she is an author and an editor and she's here to tell us all about her newest book, taboos and transgressions stories of wrongdoings, a title like that. It really speaks for itself. Does it not? Now this conversation is gritty. It is real. It is loving. It [00:01:00] is everything you needed to be in so much more. And this episode, we're going to get into an argument in favor of tattoos. We're gonna talk about the importance of living true to yourself, and then talk about whether or not God is really a stickler for the rules, like conservatives, try to make him seem. And then the most darling story is shared with us by Luanne about how her former students. Came out through writing and storytelling and it is just the cutest thing I've ever heard. And I cannot wait for you to hear it. I just know you're going to get a lot out of this episode. Well, hello, Luanne darling. Welcome to the sex jugs in Jesus pod. Luanne: Dan, how are ya? De'Vannon: I'm fucking fantastic. How about yourself? Luanne: Doing great. Doing great. De'Vannon: Yeah, like we were talking before we press that we're card button then I'm. I'm jealous of you bitch. Cause you were in fucking Florida or Donnie and knife and I'm in goddamn Baton Rouge, Louisiana at a high today [00:02:00] is like 43 fucking whole degrees.Luanne: I think I like we're getting up to 75 today, so I'm in the t-shirt and shorts, so, De'Vannon: If it weren't for this pandemic, I might be recording from Miami or at leastLuanne: that would be so nice. Wouldn't. De'Vannon: our Los Angeles. My favorite city is Los Angeles. Baton Rouge is not, is not going to do it for me. I cannot wait to move back to California, but here we are today. We're going to be talking about some of your writing. Now you've gifted the world with three books. One's called runaway. The other one is taboos and transgressions stories of wrongdoings.And I think there's one in the works called I think like muddy Backroads or something like, Luanne: yeah. Just finishing it up now. De'Vannon: so tell us tell us about your, your history and why you're drawn to [00:03:00] these taboo books.Luanne: I'm not sure. I grew up working class in Kentucky and, and I kinda like work that's down and dirty myself to read you know, and, and has a little grip to. And so when I started a work editing these books.I wanted the stories. I liked to read the ones that have a little grit to them. And, and the runaway story kind of had a funny or runaway book kind of had a funny beginning because I was telling a story about running away.When I was a kid, my grandfather told me that I would that five-year-olds will get arrested if they cross the street. And so I was afraid to cross the street when I ran away from home and I would just walk up and down, back and forth across the front of the yard. When I ran away and somebody was laughing about that and said, you should do a book on runaway stories. So it, it, it got more gritty than it did from that little. Funny story. You [00:04:00] know and so we I worked with Lee Zacharias and Michael gills, and we put that book together and then I was listening to a podcast or listening to a masterclass online and with Joyce, Carol Oates, and she was talking about writing taboos and I thought, what a great idea you know, and so it just kind of evolved all of them just kind of evolved, but they're the kind of stories I like to read and, and try to write myself so. De'Vannon: okay, so you, I'm sorry. You had to away from home. Tell me what was going on that makes you feel like you couldn't stay.Luanne: Oh, I actually, I had a pretty good childhood. It's not like that. It's but it's I was a stubborn little kid and I'm still a stubborn little adult now. You know, and I always wanted my way. And so I, I would run away from home every now and then just to, you know, because I get mad at mom. And, and so I'd take off [00:05:00] you know, so that story's not gritty unfortunately, or fortunately, I guess is the better word to say it, but you know you know, it's just me being a, a little brat more than anything else. De'Vannon: So, so when you would run away, how long would you stay gone? Where would you go?Luanne: I would go?to the edge of the yard as close as I could get to the street. I had a dog that would let me get very close to the street cause she'd had a puppy that got run over. So she would stay between me and the street and run away with me. And she'd push against me if I got too close to the street for her taste and, and push me back into the yard. And so I just walked back and forth with my little barbecue is filled with the you know, and, and it, it wasn't running away, running away. It was just me as a kid thinking I was running away more than anything else. De'Vannon: [00:06:00] Okay. So then the people who you find for these books that are this, all all true stories or is any of it fiction?Luanne: Mostly it's fiction?mostly it's fiction, we're taboos. We've got a couple of true stories in there about, for the most part they're fictional stories. And we just that's what I write and that's what I taught for a long time. And so that's what I leaned towards. You know, but we did have a couple of a true stories coming in for taboos and, and that in particular was a good addition to the piece.I think we had one or two true stories with runaway and we're, we definitely got a couple in Murray Backroads that are true stories as well. So. De'Vannon: Okay. So for the ones who were the truth stories Did you find that they, did they say that they got out of the stories as either they achieve any [00:07:00] sort of like emotional release from.Luanne: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. They got a emotional release or psychological release from.being able to write their stories and share it. They also wanted to reach out to people who had had similar stories you know, and, and let them know that you can get through it whatever it happens to be.And, and you can survive it. You know, even if it's something of your own making that is a taboo that you broke. But you know, you can, can. Manage it. And so they definitely wanted to exercise their own demons as same time that they wanted to reach out and make other people feel what they had been through to some extent De'Vannon: Hmm. So then I'm curious though, the two that we're going to be talking about later in particular, that stood out to me as one that's called from, from the taboos and transgressions book at one is called exit stage [00:08:00] by I think it was Chavis woods. And then the other one is the towel of good families by Sonata, Kamala, or either one of those are true story that you remember.Luanne: the one from Komal is a true story. Yeah. The what does it fall Tao of? De'Vannon: towel of good families.Luanne: Good families. Yeah. And yeah, that one is, is a non-fiction all the way through. So that was her story, her experience. De'Vannon: Yeah. Read it, read it very real. And I was very, very drawn to that. So I can't wait to, to dive into that one. So all of all the books that you've come across in written of the true stories that you've heard, what, what, which one was the darkest one or the one that stood out to you the most. Yes.Luanne: Well that one is that one's an empowering story. The one you mentioned before I think that the the darker ones are the ones where they're dealing with sexual abuse in some way you know, or, or Parental abandonment you know, that type of [00:09:00] thing. And a lot of those stories people write into memoir.They haven't necessarily sent into this particular, these particular anthologies. But you know, I think I don't know if a should awards PR piece on exit stage is true or not, but I know that she grew up in a small. Middle America town as a gay punk kid. And so she had it rough for a while, you know, with, with that sort of being judged situation. And so I think that the story exit stage hits close to home. So I don't know that it is true. I think it hits close to home in terms of what her life was, was like growing up in middle America outwardly gay and outwardly you know, with the shaved hair and you know, trying to deliver a life authentically as she wanted to. You know, but she would [00:10:00] go into St. Louis. To, to find people like her you know, herself, and then she would deal with the bullies when she got back home. And so it was a tough, tough existence, I think. And that's a very common thing, unfortunately. I think you know, and so I think that writing is something that's very important.She's got a couple of books out and I think they're very important in terms of the statement they make about the, trying to grow up a little bit different. So.De'Vannon: No worries. Do you find people to submit. There are true stories for these books. Is there a, like some sort of forum or a hub, or it's just like through word of mouth or.Luanne: A lot of social media, a lot of word of mouth there's a, a big conference of writers called AWP that happens every spring course with COVID, it's been virtual, but that's where you connect up with a lot of people and get the word [00:11:00] out that you're looking for stories. And then I also solicited some stories. I solicited the piece asked, Chavisa to send me a piece she would. And she sent in exit stage. And I, I have asked Louis Alberto urea is giving us one for Back roads that I'm working on. Now that's a true story and it's a funny story, but it's a true story about trying to find lake Walden and, and ended up with a cow pond and said you know, and so it's, it's combination combination of asking writers that I know writers that I'm interested in.And then also just getting word out through social media as much as possible that we're looking for manuscripts. And, and what are we S we do a little write-up to tell everybody what we're looking for. And then they decide whether or.not to submit based on that. [00:12:00]De'Vannon: Okay. Now when you, yeah, I heard you used the word gritty a couple of times. So Luanne: Yeah. De'Vannon: what, what, what is, what is gritty to you? Like what, what do you mean by that? Exactly.Luanne: Doesn't pull conscious, you know, it doesn't back off of the tough subjects. Doesn't back off of anything, you know, makes a point of going on through and telling the story, whether the story is hard to tell or hard to read or disturbing in some way, we certainly have a couple of stories in taboos that are disturbing stories.Certainly not feel good stories at all. You know, and, and that's the kind of stuff I like to read. It's as a Southern writer, myself, there's a air. Of Southern writing that's referred to as Brit lit and grit lit is, is the tougher side of a writing. And that's where you find Dorothy, Alison and [00:13:00] writers like that, that right. Sort of sometimes the poor experience growing up in the cell sometimes you know, the experience of, of just trying to survive in a rural environment without having much to live on. And you know, the, the grit lit is what I gravitate towards because in some ways I had a great childhood, I did grow up blue collar and I did grow up without a lot of things.And it's just something that speaks to me a little bit. I think. De'Vannon: That's thinking of when you were growing up. I read about when I was researching you, I read about you where you felt like you had more tattoos than your mother approved of Luanne: Yeah, De'Vannon: when did you start to start to get tattoos or what age?Luanne: I was, I was about 30, I think when I got my first one, but that would have been 1989. So I kind of hit it just as a trend was [00:14:00] starting, I think you know, though I was older than most of the people that were getting tattoos at that time. And I got my first one and now I've got to. 10 to 12, including a sleeve on one arm.And just got a new one on the wrist about two months ago. So I tend to keep going you know, with those tattoos now. Yeah, and that was a little bit of a different thing to do if you're a college professor. But you know, that's assists who I am and I, I appreciate anybody who lives authentically and is true to themselves.And I've tried to live my life that way as well. Sometimes you, you rub people the wrong way when you do that. You know, but that's tough. That's this is me. This is who I am. Kind of thing.De'Vannon: Yeah. So going with the tattoos, there was some sort of issue that you had in the early [00:15:00] nineties. As I understand that there was some problems with like the students and the staff at a university, like he just said, it's not really a thing. A college professor does. What sort of controversy happened over your tattoos at work?Luanne: They had a little bit of an issue with me being tattooed with having specifically having tattoos that show that didn't feel like it was a very professional thing. And, and it was mentioned to me a few times nobody ever came down on me in terms of I might lose my job or something like that, but it was kind of one of those sideways conversations that I had with people that were over me in terms of you know, who they are.And then you have most of the time the students were cool with it. They didn't. You know, but the, the staff that wanted me to look professional and, and you know, that type of thing, I wore jeans and t-shirts and sneakers and had tattoos. I never looked professional a day in my life, as far as I know. You know, cause [00:16:00] it's just me. But I think when you teach creative writing, need to be a little bit more informal because the students are critiquing each other's work. And, and it's gotta be a comfortable environment for them. So for me to be there living my life, the way I choose to live it, it brought out there.Possibilities for living their own lives. I saw that in somebody that was an authority figure and I think it helped a couple of students you know, but I might just be patting myself on the back. I don't know, but I think it did help with a couple of students who thought, well, she could be in this position and have the tattoos and dress the way she dresses and, and be true to herself.Then I can be true to myself too and, and make a living and, and be the person I want to be. So, you know, that was the message I was trying to send out. And and I think it did help with a couple of students. Even if my bosses didn't [00:17:00] approve too much. De'Vannon: How do you know they didn't approve? What, like, what did they, what did they say to you?Luanne: They would ask me if there was certain kind of meeting to cover up so that my tattoos didn't show, or they would ask me to they call me the wild child. You?know, and there are just couple of things that you know, they would say to me, that sort of let me know that they weren't approving of this. You know, they would say, oh, another tattoo Gran, huh. You know, and it was looking down their nose at me for doing that kind of thing. It's changing. Now, there are a lot of younger professors who come in with all kinds of tattoos. So this was just a sort of a nineties thing where they were reacting and didn't quite know what to do with a tattooed professor. Now. A lot more tattooed professors than what they ever expected. I think so. It's, it's acceptable. De'Vannon: Yeah. I [00:18:00] mean, it reminds me of how, when I it's, like, it's almost like a uniform violation that they kind of were treating you, you know? So you weren't meeting the code. Luanne: Exactly. Yeah. De'Vannon: Dress and appearance. Yeah. W every pretty much every job I've ever had, I had some sort of snafu in terms of dress and appearance.And this is like one of the main reasons. I'm glad I don't work around people anymore because I just don't have the tolerance for the bullshit though. When I was in the military, I had piercings. So that's when I started hanging out in tattoo shops and stuff like that. It's a family, it's like a family community vibe in those tattoo shops and stuff like that. Not to mention that they can get addictive. never got a tattoo. I was more of a piercer. I was into the Luanne: Yeah. De'Vannon: blood. I almost got kicked out of the military for wearing piercings in uniform and, you know, and stuff like that. I knew it was wrong, but I was like, fuck it [00:19:00] in. And maybe there is a common thread there. Commonality amongst people who like to get piercings and who tend to have kind of like a fuck it mentality.Luanne: Yeah, I hope so. I hope I have a fuck it mentality. De'Vannon: And then I also, I've always used the word button down shirts. Cause I had these like, you know, like jobs that, you know, was like more like white collar and stuff. And I used to like always, I do like the first three, four buttons, so I could have like a lot of my chest out. Cause I was a vein veiny on their veins.They're very vain young man. Hey, it was what it was. I always least that likes to have the testicles out there going a little side boob here and there. When I worked at. I worked at the call center it's center point energy and Houston, Texas. And the, the floor managers would come around and tell me, make me button my shirt up and shit all the time.And [00:20:00] I fuck you, bitch.You know, you're already tied down to the damn phone. You can't get up and go piss or like jerk off or nothing without the damn phone. And now you can't have your titties out if you want to. Oh, this is just repressed worsewithin my boss. And I worked for the Texas workforce commission was totally cool about it. You know, I was meeting my numbers. You can give a shit. If I had my tits out, she was like, I think they look great.And so never forget her. She was a good, good, good fucking boss. One of the few that I've ever had in my life Luanne: Yeah. De'Vannon: anyway that, that that's my little there. So so what, so, so you, so you've written [00:21:00] all these books, you have like blogs and stuff on your website. Is there things you want your readers to learn and gain from the body of work that you have.Luanne: Well, we've been talking about it that authenticity, that be true to yourself, you know, and, and that's I think the More what I try to say with my own work than anything else. And I think the one of my teachers a long time ago when I was a creative writing student said my characters are all sort of these alienated Indi individuals. You know, and I I think he was right about that because they're, they're trying to live a life that a lot of normal society or whatever you want to call, it doesn't necessarily accept. You know. and I think that that's going up against the, the grain, there is something that's common thread in my work and in what I like to read you know, and, and It's not intentional.It just, it's just what comes out. When [00:22:00] I sit down to write, it's just what I like to read. You know, and, and I don't do it as a political statement. I do it as, as someone who's just always been a little bit different and always will be a little bit different. I, you know, and, and just keep going with that. Those are the people I gravitate towards are ones that are who they are, you knowDe'Vannon: I want to know. So from your, have you ever had anyone who has read any of your books, reach out to you and give you a testimony of how their life changed?Luanne: I had students do that for sure. You know, and, and they've, they've either read some of my work or they've been in my class where they've heard my talk about. Pushing the story to be what it needs to be. You know, I've had students come out as gay in my class. I've had students tell me afterwards that they've changed their mind for what they want to do with their career.Cause it's never what they [00:23:00] wanted to do anyway. You know, and so I've had this students certainly follow their own lives a little bit more closely after van and class, I'm not trying to paint myself as any kind of a hero or anything like that. You know, it's just that, that I think if you're, if you're doing it right as a teacher, you do more than just teach what's in the books to learn.You teach something about life lessons as well. You know, and, and if you reach some students, that's great. That's great. This is one of the reasons I'd never be able to teach in high school, but those parents will be after me all the time with what I want to doDe'Vannon: So when you say they came out as gay, so that they like stand up in the middle of class and be like, Hey, I want everyone to know that I'm gay. How exactly did they come out?Luanne: and their work in the writing. They came out as gay in their writing and, and came up and told me and asked if it was okay. For them to share this work that, you [00:24:00] know, and would tell me this first time they're telling anybody about this. And I would say, okay, well, we'll be very gentle not critique too hard and, and make sure that this is a comfortable space for you. You know, and, and it was usually a very accepting space for them. And, and so they, they you know, I've definitely had, I would say probably over the years, four or five students that came out?in the class through their writing De'Vannon: So how many students were in the class average size. Luanne: size.of the class was about 20 students per class. De'Vannon: So they were reading what they had written out loud for everyone else.Luanne: They pass out copies of what they had written and everybody had copies and to take home and read and read and write their responses the stories. You know and then we'd come back the next week and talk about the stories and make suggestions if we felt like anything needed to be changed. [00:25:00]De'Vannon: Well, hot damn a literary coming out. Luanne: Yeah. De'Vannon: Hey, that takes a lot of brave braveness. I think braveness is the word. It takes a lot of braveness and boldness to come out in any kind of way. You know, if you feel like that, that's something that you want to do. Huh. And then perhaps you could write about it. Luanne: Yeah, absolutely. De'Vannon: let me think about this.I guess if there's someone out there who feels like they need, need to come out and they don't want to tell whoever, maybe they could write a nice story, you know, write it out just a little bit more. Thorough than like a text in a sitting at tech food B kind of like a personal letter to somebody.Luanne: yeah. Personal letter or even a fictional story is release of of everything you've been holding in. You know, and so I think that [00:26:00] it's voice, it's a matter of voice it's, it's being able to speak and speak a truth that you experienced. You know, and I think that that's, that's part of the reason I like the gray stuff.It speaks truth. That's not out there very much. You know, and I think that Part of my own writing. I think I'm just trying to speak a truth about the way I see the world, the way I see people, you know, and I, I certainly think coming out in your writing is, is a way to get your voice out there. De'Vannon: Okay. So if someone's listening to this and they're saying. Shit. That sound like a good idea, but I'm not a great writer. What advice would you give to people in order to encourage them to hone their writing skills in this, you know, or to this doesn't have to be like something that's going to be like all, you know, a great manifesto or anything like that, you know?Is there any [00:27:00] advice you would give to people who may feel insecure about their ability to write effectively?Luanne: Yeah. The more you read the, the people you read they're your teachers more than anybody's standing up in front of the classroom and they'll teach you how to put up my dogs barking in the background. Sorry about that. They're the ones who will teach you how to create the sentence that says it needs to say. You know, and so yeah read as much as possible. the genre of writing that speaks to you and read as much as possible within that genre. And, and that's, that's where you're going to learn to write. Even in my composition classes, could usually tell which students were readers and which ones weren't because of their skill levels. And so it was very much a important of, of writing as spear reader as well. De'Vannon: Did I would add to that, you know, just [00:28:00] start, you know, even if you don't think it's going to come. Luanne: Oh, absolutely. De'Vannon: As polished or as nice sounding, just fucking began. Luanne: Yeah, De'Vannon: Cause you never know where it could go. And you're going to have to go back and redo it. Anyway, when I write, I like to just get something out there and then go back and then rearrange it and everything like that, and then begins kind of to be like putting a puzzle together in a way.And it gets to be fun and very relaxing.Luanne: absolutely. Absolutely. I always told my students that it was like throwing the clay on the pot, on the that you don't have the clay on the wheel to start with, if, And until you have a first draft of something you know, and then you start shaping it, then you start making it into something. So yeah, you're absolutely right.Just start, just do it. De'Vannon: And the good outline helps even if it's a simple, basic outline and it starts with the basic skeleton of an outline. And then you come back and add to each bullet point. Luanne: Yeah, [00:29:00]De'Vannon: You know, later on. So, so yeah, so it's a good to break it down into small chunkable little parts rather than looking at the whole big monster at one time, because that could be overwhelming.Luanne: absolutely. And don't take don't think about people reading it first drafts, or just think about what you want to say and then worry about people reading it and, and that sort of thing. After you get that first draft out there, say what you need to say first. De'Vannon: Right? And then you can be like fish. I said, what I saidLuanne: Exactly. Exactly. De'Vannon: on my memoir, that's getting ready to come out. Praise God. I think next month is going Luanne: Oh, awesome. De'Vannon: it's going for formatting in a week. And so, but I think I've I'm on like the eighth edit of it. So I never would've thought, but it takes a lot of editing and a lot of reworking and reworking and relooking.But Luanne: The domes. De'Vannon: full memoir. If you're just trying to write a coming out story, [00:30:00] honey, you only need a good page or two, Luanne: Yeah. De'Vannon: a whole 300 page or manifesto. Like what my memoir is like, it's not, you're not needed. Don't need to do all that. I think coming out is a beautiful thing for those people who choose to do it.I never did it because I have a different personality about that. I don't like to explain myself to people, but people have different value systems and different sort of communities and social backgrounds that they're coming from. So I get that too. So if somebody is listening and they're kind of like me and they're like, my attitude was like this.If I'm family, can't look at all of this, that's going on over here and you can't figure out that I'm not straight, then I don't know what the fuck is wrong with you because this is abundantly clear over here. So I've never bothered with coming out. I just thought it showing up a guy's like, yeah, either you accept this or you don't, if you don't then fuck you Luanne: sure. De'Vannon: get the fuck.So, but I know that there's a very masculine man out there for [00:31:00] instance, who are not feminine at all. And can't nobody look at them and tell them they're not. Luanne: Yeah. Yeah. De'Vannon: So they don't really have the luxury of being like, well, they should just be able to know that I'm not straight because he's so like macho masculine, so machismo and everything.So,Luanne: Still a personal choice. so you know, I mean, like I said, I think that you live in true to yourself. You're living to what you want to do you know, and if you want to come out in whatever way, great. If you are not comfortable doing that or you want to keep yourself in waves and that's your that's living true to yourself too, you know?So it's, it's a definitely personal choice.De'Vannon: so as I just don't want to let got us swerve back to something I asked about earlier, where you had made that statement and whatever it is, I was reading about what your mother, you had had more tattoos and your mother would approve of. Was that just kind of like a general statement you were making or did she actually say something about your tattoos?Luanne: [00:32:00] She would say with a cringe on her face, it's pretty, every time I show her a new one you know, she would, she would no, that was not a thing that she approved of at all. And I think my dad was, had already passed away when I got my first one, because he would have been absolutely upset about it. No, it's, it's you know, she was okay. I got one on my ankle, first one and, and, you know, one or two here or there, she was like, well, they don't show that much. So if that's okay. But now that I have ones that are. Very blatantly out there. I think she would she would not approve that at all. You know, it's just, why do you want to mark yourself up like that of thing? De'Vannon: Yeah. You know, when I was growing up in cherish, they would tell us not to get in the Pentecostal church without our recommend to no one. You know, they would tell us, you know, everything's wrong, everything's the devil, you know, piercings tattoos and stuff like that. And then they would use scripture [00:33:00] about, well, you know, the Lord says your body as a temple.So therefore you should respect that and getting tattoos and piercings the way of disrespecting your body. Okay. So what one would consider to be disrespectful or not is subjective. And so people say like your mom, like the people at church and everything, look at people with tattoos and want to judge them and everything like that.I think it's bullshit. And I think that it's reflective of people being made uncomfortable by things that that's just not like them.Luanne: Absolutely. Yeah, I agree totally that they, you know, they disapproved for whatever their personal reasons are and, and a lot of it has to do with, well, you're not acting the way I act. We're not seeing the world the way I see it. You know, and so therefore you're wrong and you're bad and all these other things.And unfortunately, I think that that's very [00:34:00] much how our society is right now. You know, and, and that's why I think, you know, finding people who are true to themselves is a rarity in some ways. You know, and, and I appreciate that. So, De'Vannon: It's all I want to offer this. Nugget of Liberty to people out there, which I don't know how many conservative people would be listening to, my show anyway, but just in case somebody might be considering abandoning their conservative ways. You can look at something or someone, you know, you don't really have to have an opinion about it one way or the other, Luanne: Yeah. De'Vannon: know, you don't have to like it or dislike it.You don't have to approve it or disapprove it. It could just exist and just leave with a fucking bad, like you don't have to, you don't have to, do anything. You don't have to say anything. You don't have to react. So I would say to Republicans that I liked that are shade at Republicans as they're the epitome of hate, [00:35:00] hate hypocrisy, judge judgment, being judgmental and all of that.So if a woman wants to get an abortion, Not your fucking business bitch. If Luanne: exactly. De'Vannon: a men want to get married, not your fucking business, how if somebody wants to get pat to shut the fuck up about it and go, it doesn't matter.Luanne: Mind your business live your life. You know, I agree that couldn't I, you said It perfectly.De'Vannon: It is so, but I think a lot of people who judge people don't understand how wrapped up in bondage they are by projecting their, that sort of judgment onto people, but that you can't give away what you don't have. So in order for you to try to corral and control people force them to live, like you want them to live means that you are in bondage yourself.Luanne: Absolutely. De'Vannon: And so you're not really free, [00:36:00] confident, Luanne: Hmm. De'Vannon: free people are like, say our straight allies like, well, I don't care if they're gay or not. It doesn't affect me. I'm, you know, I got other shit to do, know, that person is free Luanne: Yeah. Yeah. De'Vannon: a chord in them. And they see people living their life over there across the street somewhere, they don't feel enraged.Like they've got to go and do something about it because they are at one within themselves. Republicans are not at one within themselves, know, conservative people who want to comment on people's tattoos who thinks someone's skirts too short, who thinks And you don't understand the concept of sex positivity, you know, you know, in different things like that because you know what they have held within themselves.They are not whole, therefore they cannot allow the people to just fucking be happy. Luanne: Right, De'Vannon: They are happy. That's where it starts. The people are miserable and Republicans are just fucking miserable life. They're just unhappy the lot of them[00:37:00]though,Luanne: They live by a lot of rules. Yeah. You know, and. De'Vannon: go ahead.Luanne: I was going to say, that's, that's a, you know, one of the things I learned putting that taboos and theology together was the, the, the number of rules we have out there about how you're supposed to live your life. You know, and, and just how ridiculous it is, as long as you're not hurting anybody else, you know, De'Vannon: Right. Luanne: you know? Yeah. De'Vannon: But, you know, what the Lord, as much as it's, you know, he's not really as for rules, as people try to make him seem. Luanne: Yeah. De'Vannon: these, those, when he was here and let me see, you know, was an instance that happened in the old Testament when David was becoming king and he was on the run, you know, he made his way to the temple and he ate of the holy food.[00:38:00]He wasn't a priest him or the priest that was against the rules. But he, it was allowed to happen anyway, in then when Jesus was here on the earth, you know, he referenced back to that story because the, the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the religious people of the day, the conservative Christian leaders of his day were trying to tell him what you're doing is against the rule, sir.And he was like, what'd, you know, God didn't make people for rules, rules were made for people. Luanne: Yeah. De'Vannon: you adjust those rules and you do whatever it takes to keep people in community. You know, you don't be a stickler for the rules to the, to the, to, and then you exile people and discard people, but the rules stay intact, Luanne: Yeah. De'Vannon: you know, that's, that's not of God.And so when we get these fundamentalists people like a certain Supreme court justice, Amy called me Baird, you fucking con. And you know, and you know, different people like that, who. Forced, [00:39:00] you know, the world to stay in original rules, no matter what, we're not even a modicum of flexibility. You know, that that is not the way God works and that that's not the way he wants us to work with people.He wants us to take a second, look at things to readjust our views as time goes on not be rigid in unmovable.Luanne: Right, right. No. And you know, you absolutely got it right on, you know, I think that I mean I grew up in the south and I grew up in the Bible belt. You know, and so, and my dog is throwing a fit. I'm so sorry, you know, but That's all right, baby. But you know, it's, it's a. Yeah. know, you interpret the Bible the way you want to interpret a lot of people, I think. And know, and so it's, I want to these are the rules we live by, because that's how price said [00:40:00] to do it. Maybe look again at the Bible and what it actually said. Because it's, it's a little bit you know, interpreted wrong a lot of the time, I think.De'Vannon: I'm gonna just say this, and then we're going to move onto the towel of good families Huh. when it comes to and I don't mind the dog, you know what? People like a good organic compensation in this thing. And especially since the coronavirus came to town, everything's done over zoom from home. So people got all kinds of dogs, cats, kids, fucking jeopardy playing in the background, all kinds of things going on.It is what it is. So I was going to say, yeah, you know, You know, the crazy world we live in, you know, people who tout the name of God are also flinging AK AK for assault rifles and shit from the pulpit, you know, you're conservative Christian people. And then we have our Jerry Falwell's, Jerry Falwell juniors to be more specific.Actually, I don't know that much about his dad, but you know, I'm just going to put this out there. And Mr. Falwell [00:41:00] Jr. Decided to come out in his own, right. In an article disavowing, everything that he's basically done in terms of religion, he was like, I'm not spiritual. There was pressure on me to be spiritual.So yeah, that's why it's because the pool boy scandal caught up and then the picture with him, with his pants open with some woman who's not as wife and all of that. And so he finally. He was like, yeah, it was all a ruse. Anyway, it was bullshit. Fuck all this church shit. So y'all so y'all can go and look that up and then take a look and question yourself thoroughly as the, why you pay attention to conservative Christian people who call themselves Christians in the news the day, because they're full of shit.And so,Luanne: Yeah. De'Vannon: but keeping in line with religion, the towel, the towel that families by Sanai Kemal was, oh, I think that's a beautiful name. S O N I a H K M a L this story at the Stan and that happening in this story opens with her mother holding her [00:42:00] wooden prayer beads and shit like that, which was a beautiful, beautiful imagery in the sense that it's true.Luanne: Yeah. De'Vannon: So right there, you got like a, probably an overly religious woman, you know, already from the get-go. And this woman is telling her daughter not to talk the boys, you know, yada yada yada whoopee. Woo. Because in a lot of overseas religions, you know, men are put on a fucking pedestal and women are like underneath the dirt somewhere, you know, even lower than that.And honestly, in a lot of ways, that's how Christianity used to be. You know, I don't know. I don't, I wouldn't say it was to that extent, but say like in the Bible say women weren't counted. So when you see like tallies of numbers, of people that don't include females, they only counted the men. You know? So there's that, although the Bible is a middle Eastern texts, it's not American.So some people try to act like we wrote the book. We did not it's from the middle east. [00:43:00] So you have that influence going on. And so in this story here, this mother is telling her daughter all about what she can't do, because basically she is a female and she has these expectations that are being levied upon her and everything like that.But what I love about this story is this girl is clapping back at her parents, her mother and she's challenging them. So I'm going to read an excerpt from this. Luanne: Sure 'De'Vannon: cause she says, where in the Quran does it say girls can't smoke and voice can where in the Koran does it say boys can go topless, but girls can wear in the Koran.Does it say that my brother can have a telephone installed in his room, but I can't even get one, even though I'm nine years older than him.And she says she has yet to receive a proper answer or she gets their belief. Baleful gazes and admonitions to stop asking stupid questions. [00:44:00] They, what you want to say about that? Because I got a lot to say.Luanne: Yeah. I would say that to S to some extent, that's the heart of the story, you know, and, and the girl or, you know, she keeps it's not a fictional piece. It's a memoir and she keeps, keeps pushing and rebelling to the point where, I mean, she's almost, she's talking to boys almost immediately in the memoir, and then she has a boyfriend and, you know, she hears this rumor about the boyfriend's mother and, and.And, you know, if she were a good girl, she wouldn't have been in this situation at all, but she's you know, saying, why does it say.I have to act a certain way? Where, where does it say that I have to act like this? Like you said, and so I'm, I'm why I'm dying to hear what you have [00:45:00] to say. So have at it, baby. De'Vannon: Well, it reminds me of when I was growing up in church and they would tell us you're not supposed to drink in Dan's masturbate. I would be like we're in the Bible. Does it say that I can't drink for answers? I can see it arguing against access. That, I mean, excess, that makes sense because being drunk is not really all that fun.So I was just told to basically just be quiet and do what they say. And so there's a rise in people, and this is why people break away from religion is because when we see an accuracies things that don't add up and we question it, we're told to shut the fuck up when I was in seminary. Before I left the fucking teeth professor to straight up admitted.He was like, yeah, we intend to control the congregation. And I, and I was like, what? And they were like, yeah, that's what we do here that we want to control the congregation. I think he was coming from a Baptist background and I [00:46:00] was like, okay, this is why movies. Like the golden compass never got a second sequel because movies like that are all about like religious control.Luanne: Yeah. Yeah De'Vannon: It's like it, this is why like in my ministry my main encouragement to people is to break away from the need of like say pastors and preachers to interpret scripture and stuff like that. if you're going to follow the Koran, if you're going to follow the Hebrew Bible and people are coming up with laws and shit that they can't justify with scripture, the fuck are you doing.Luanne: yeah, yeah, exactly. De'Vannon: You know, now, at least though Kieron, the people who read it, read it in its original language Louann. the Bible that this Hebrew Bible here that, that, that Americans use and people use is not even written in its original language, Luanne: No. De'Vannon: three languages. The old Testament is Hebrew and Aramaic. And the new Testament is Greek.[00:47:00]And I don't know very many people who actually have read it and it's a native tongue. And so at best ed, best, most people who have these staunch beliefs and shit like that are getting them derived from somebody else's interpretation of someone else's book.Luanne: That's right. I mean, it's, that's exactly how it is. It's, it's an interpretation. You know, and, and how do I tell this story in another language, but you know, you got somebody else's opinions coming in when they translate and, and so it's, it's you don't know, you have no idea how much of their own opinion they put in there when they translated.And so, know, the original language is. How you should read it if possible.De'Vannon: You know, in this day and time you can just [00:48:00] Google single passages. Like, what does this bot, what does this part say in original than the original language? Or what's some commentary on this? You got to dig deeper. You never want a preacher because preachers cannot separate their upbringing and their personal. Belief systems from their message. They don't, it's all infused into it, but it's sold to you as a divine message from God. And it does not, it has a lot of what that preacher thinks, because if you listen to what preachers say, they'll often say things like, especially when they're challenged on something that they've said, they'll say, well, I wasn't raised that way.I wasn't brought up that way. When, whenever Joel Olsteen from, you know, from Lakewood church in Houston, Texas was first asked about his stance on homosexuality and maybe on the interview that him and Victoria, his wife did on Larry King. You know, I believe it was one of, one of his responses. Like he wasn't brought up that way, but see, the thing is, and I can talk about, you know, that church, cause that's the church that I was ministering at before I got kicked out for not being straight.So I'll talk all the shit about them that I want. Luanne: [00:49:00] Yeah. De'Vannon: You know, but the point is like, okay, were you supposed to be your preacher? We don't give a damn about who you were brought up. You know, your, your job is to get your fucking ass up there and tell us what thus sayeth the Lord, not what, not what thus say it, your upbringing, Luanne: Yeah. De'Vannon: you know, and by that logic, then everyone should just do what the fuck they were raised as, but he's not the first preacher I've heard say that.They said that all in Pentecostal church throughout my whole life, because they would say it in response to like their criticism, someone else there'll be like, well, those Catholics over there are those Baptist people over there are those gay people over there are those drug addicts over there. You know, they're living in sin.You know, I wasn't bought up that way. I just don't understand what they're doing. Well, bitch, you don't have to. And I've already discussed earlier wise, not necess a necessity for us to understand everybody else, but you know, this girl in this book is breaking away from the control that this religion is trying to have.Luanne: Right. De'Vannon: But so many [00:50:00] people, so many people don't and then what happens is we ended up living fake. We ended up curling, you know, regressing into ourselves. Okay. This translates into suicide depression, anxiety, a lot of the problems we have in this world today that are being treated with medicine really result from a lack of true self-love and self-acceptance and a lot of it starts with religion.Luanne: Yeah. I think you're very, very right about that. And, and a lot of it starts with being brought up a certain way. You know, and, and that not, not being who you are and, and kind of feeling the bondage you know, and not knowing how to break out of it. De'Vannon: Well, that's why I do my podcasts. That's why I've written my, my memoir, which is, as you would say, grit is full of a lot of grit and everything like that. And it. And in order to try to help people break free of this, because I see it so much, [00:51:00] I'm a licensed massage therapist. People would come to me for massages, but they would tell me all their personal problems.And it's the same thing. People are so unhappy, Luanne: Yeah, De'Vannon: know? And your book serves the same purpose. You're basically laying out a whole bunch of situations where people were not happy. Luanne: right, right. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. De'Vannon: it though? How did it change? Luanne: Yeah. De'Vannon: So going to happy. We can't stay that way.got to give, to read a little bit more from from Sinatra's story here because I absolutely love the way that this read. She can, he continues furthermore uh, do do not have a natural aversion to siren songs. There are such as Madonna, Cindy lopper and Samantha Fox. This worries my mother to know in, and she often remarks what'd you get family will accept the Madonna type as their daughter-in-law.My mother is [00:52:00] far from impressed. When I say that I might not accept such a prudish family. I tend to look up to the likes of Madonna. The fact that upsets my mother, most of all, since everyone, and anyone can see my supposedly loose morals in my neon leggings, my tie dye t-shirts under which I wear a black bra, my six and my six earrings in each ear, which I pierced myself, my bright red HANA, dyed hair.In fact, one of the reasons my mother gave permission to, to me to attend is, I don't know what L is to attend. Elle is because they have the, maybe there's a school there to attend. Elle is because they have a uniform of sorts, the only colors permitted or unembellished khaki, whites, and reds, and also no Western wear for girls.So. She's referring to like 1980s, 1990s, Madonna there with the tie dye with Luanne: Oh, yeah, De'Vannon: everything.[00:53:00]Oh, she gave so much a lie. I was like, come on Madonna, look like a Madonna has been getting a lot of shade from the gay community lately for this and that. But you know, Madonna could give two bucks less about it.Luanne: that's true. That's what makes her who she is. De'Vannon: She's like, I don't give a fuck. I'm Madonna bitch. Arthur song said, bitch, I'm Madonna.I know my God, this girl is just giving me so much a life. So she's bringing Madonna, Cindy lopper, a gay icon. Fag hag ruin is I don't think fag has, is a derogatory term. Some people in some parts of the world think fag has, is meant insultingly. I do not. If it, if you think fag hag is, is a bad word I'll say, I'm sorry for that, but, but it just, it's not meant in a negative way.And so but yeah, it was Madonna and Cindy law [00:54:00] or some of the world's greatest fag hags. She's trying to do this in the middle of a Quran or on society. Luanne: Yeah. De'Vannon: I don't know if she ever moved away from there. Do you know that she's still living?Luanne: in America now. I don't remember where exactly, but she's, she's teachers riding in America now. So she's and, and very successful writer. Yeah. This is another thing I found interesting about this book. I could tell it's a different writing styles across each of the stories and there's a good, like 20 stories I think in this. yeah, De'Vannon: It's different writing style. So it will appeal to very many different readers and different backgrounds of different lifestyles. So I'm glad that she left. I'm very, very glad that she left. And so I would, I would, I would preach that message to people, to people who are black, the black sheets out there, like I'm a total black sheep and I love it. It's like probably my favorite thing about myself. I love [00:55:00] being weird. I love being different.I don't want to do normal because it's boring and overrated and it's not even attractive, but instead of trying to an institution or a group of people to like you and my God sake for, you're not going to ever try to change herself so they can accept you because they never will because they don't like themselves.That's why they're trying to change you. Leave if you can, and it may take some planning, some preparation and prayer and all of that and Luanne: Yeah. De'Vannon: don't stay is like, let me say this, that I'm a hush. And then, so you can talk, but it's like gay people, non straight people are straight allies. If you're setting up in a church that is anti LGBTQ two S LGBTQ plus, they don't like the people.They don't think women should get abortions. They got this shit you don't like. And I, and I've done this. I've sat there too. Cause I felt like I needed to be a church because why? Because people told me I should go, go somewhere else, go to a gay affirming church, go to places that [00:56:00] are better, that you have people who are going to support you and celebrate you rather than to attack your lifestyle and stuff like that.You know? And then, you know, because you're hurting yourself. If you're not straight, why sat there and listened to a preacher, say that you're going to go to hell. Now we rationalize it and we go, okay, well I'll disagree with them on that, but I agree with everything else and we make concessions for it. Y you know, we shouldn't stay in abusive relationships.We shouldn't say it abusive churches, abusive companies, organizations. If, if, if, if the whole thing is in positive, when nothing's fully positive, let me not say that there's something that's a personal attack against you, or what you believe in and you should go. But what do you think? Cause that's what I'm seeing.You know, she left overseas and came to the place where she could thrive rather than trying to say. Yeah.Luanne: Oh, I, I completely agree with that. In a similar [00:57:00] vein, I guess when I was a kid, it was in the sixties and we were living in a small town in Kentucky and our church Southern Methodist church was a very small community, very small congregation but a black couple wanted to join. The church first black couple to ask to join the church and the elders did not want since the sixties, the elders did not want black couple in the church.And my parents who I would never say were activists in any way. My parents left the church at that time. And God bless them for that. You know, because they saw something where they said, this is not the right church for us, that doesn't accept people no matter what. And they left the church and it had been a big part of our lives that church had had been.And, you know, for them to walk away at that point I noticed, even though I was only like six years [00:58:00] old, I noticed, and I understood why and I think it it's had a big impact on who I became as time went on, you know, and, and know, exactly if it's, I liked what you said, if it's an abusive church or an abusive situation and abuse comes in many forms then walk away from it.And, and I think if, you know, that's, that's right on, if you can do it, if you can get away, get away. And, and my parents taught me that that's great, you know, De'Vannon: Right. My my boyfriend's mom did that for him and his brother. When when they were younger, I don't think they even had a chance to come out and say anything, but mothers know when they have gay children, they just do so when, when she had them in a church at first, it may be in, but when they started preaching against the [00:59:00] gayness, she was like, oh, hell no, I'm taking my children away from this.And they just never went back to any church at all, because, you know, why keep your kids in a situation like that, where they're going to get hurt. If something I wish, you know, my, my, you know, my mom did the best job. She knew how to do with her own set of circumstances. And I'm not mad at her and I don't hold anything against her.But knowing what I know now as an adult, you know, I don't, I wish that she would not have kept the meet in a church where they were preaching against homosexuality. Luanne: right. De'Vannon: No, or against really anything, you know, I don't want to go to church to hear how much you hate some person or some group of people. That's not what it's about.And and you know, I wish that my mom would have divorced my dad because he, as I understand that he had an affair when, when she was pregnant with me and he had definitely had one when I was in, when I was in grade school, you know, and of course he would be very [01:00:00] physically and verbally abusive to myself and my siblings and then verbally abusive to my mother as well.You know, this is a mean fucking man. And, you know, I looked at his affairs as a way out, you know, because according to Jesus, once you're married, if you get divorced for any reason, other than infidelity, that he considers you an adulterer, doesn't no matter what. Luanne: right, right. Yeah. De'Vannon: I get the straight conservative church world get divorced all the time.And that seems to be cool with them. And then, but then they didn't want to turn on the tap gay people. Then there's a whole other story there. But I feel like God was giving her a way out. I wish she had taken us out of that abusive home, Luanne: Yeah. Yeah, De'Vannon: trying to make it work. You know, the, the other option is to find a better atmosphere.You know, you got to Luanne: yeah, De'Vannon: the go, when to stay, when to go. And so oh my God. So. Hmm. So I'll just [01:01:00]recap that we'll always want to be sure that we challenged challenge anything. Anyone else's telling us, let's fact check it we don't want to put ourselves in a place where we're going to living a lie, whatever we want to live, be sure it's our own truth.Not someone else's Luanne: yeah. De'Vannon: let's put ourselves in places where we have freedom of expression so that we will Luanne: Yeah. Yeah, De'Vannon: that way. We have good mental health. We have joy to share with the world we're being the truth. We're living our truth. And we are, you know, we're not, we're not living a lie because that shit will show up later with bad health.It can manifest in your body, you know, in, in, in, in different ways like that, know, it's, it's, it's a very dangerous thing to live a lie.Luanne: yeah, yeah. I agree with you a hundred percent. And I think I think my parents did inadvertently teach me that though. They didn't realize that's the lesson I was getting from that. And I think but I think from, you know, from then on, I was like, [01:02:00] well stay away from the lies, you know, be who you are, be, who you are And try to live authentically.De'Vannon: And so then the last thing we'll talk quickly about was exit exit stage a lot of this reads really and it reads really real to me. You said you weren't sure if it, if it's, if it's fiction or nonfiction, it sounds very nonfictiony to me because I've lived through this life before and we're talking about snorting cocaine and this little snippet that I took, I thought it was kind of cool because of its accuracy.And so I would just read through it real quick. And so. It, it opens up with someone talking. It says never snort cocaine out of any bill smaller than a 20. The old man told her that's a lame, that's some loser shit right there. He took a drag of a cigarette and reached into his back pocket, retrieving a crisp $50 bill.And he held it between his fingers and snap it in her face so that it popped take girl, [01:03:00] use this. That's what you want to do your first line out of, oh, she reached out and took the bill, go easy on her. She don't know no better. Her mother told him, patting her daughter on the back. And so this is a cool story here of a mom.You know, you know, watching her daughter do a couple of lines of cocaine and then whoever, whoever this guy is being like, don't be a weak ass bitch. You know, you won't be lame. You don't do that shit out of like something greater than a 20, which is real as fuck, you know, Luanne: Oh, yeah. De'Vannon: You always want to roll up like a hundred dollar bill or something, you know, you want to just be like Tony Montana with his shit, you know, that's our face with itand we're going to do it at all. But, you know, she said she had a rough upbringing, you know, I, I read that with glee, but you know, it's not necessarily the best situation for, you know, a mother to be encouraging her daughter to do cocaine.I'm not [01:04:00] judging her for it, but,you know,Luanne: Well, it's, it's the same thing though. I mean, she's doing it because her mother wants her to, you know, and she wants to be a part of her mother's life. Does she really want to do it? Is that really who she is? We don't know, you know, and, and I think it's, it's a lot, I think that has ending of that story says a lot where she, she is obviously trying to please her mother and be close to her mother through her actions. You know, and so there's, there's a little bit of a problem there with that. You know, rather than being true to herself, she's being she thinks her mother wants her to be. You know, That's kind of, it, it's kind of the opposite of the other story that you liked in terms of what the daughter's doing. But it's the same, you know, same idea in some ways. Do I please mom, or do I please [01:05:00] myself? And then this one she tries to please, mom just sit mom is into cocaine rather than the Korean. De'Vannon: Well, religion's just as much of a drug.Luanne: Oh yeah, I think so too. Yeah. De'Vannon: You know, people try to throw so much shade at like drug addicts and stuff like that. And look, I've been that added with a needle, hanging out my arm and blood squirting everywhere. And I'm not even a fucking ashamed to say that, but you know, religion is a DELWP is fucking, I mean that negative leave, like a drug people get upset.And it dipped it to the process until the ritual, just like it's like a dope theme gets addicted to the process and the ritual of acquiring drugs, setting it all up, injecting it, people get high when they go to church every time, you know, and then they want to force that shit on other people. Luanne: Yeah. De'Vannon: no different now.It's cute. It's a cute addiction because you know, you're not covered in tattoos and a grimy place with [01:06:00] your arm and a belt wrapped around your bicycle to get the veins popped up and you don't have track marks all up and down your fucking body. Could you try to shoot up in all kinds of different places that you've blown out, all the veins in your arm, you know, you get to put on a pretty dress and go set up and cherish and judge other people.But bitch, you're strong out to.Luanne: Yeah. Yeah, no, I totally agree. It's, it's a, it's an escape. It's a way of looking for something outside of yourself. You know, and, and that's exactly what drugs do too, is sorta help you escape yourself. But certainly religious religion
Check it out on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/33Z4VsE Check it out on Apple: https://apple.co/3AHc2DT Kareemah Emordi was a born and raised Muslim woman who converted to Christianity. Her story is a powerful testimony of God's pursuit of a woman who didn't want or need, “Their Jesus.” Kareemah Emordi has been saved now for 11 years. She is married to the love of her life Anthony, and together they are impacting the Kingdom of God saving souls and discipling them to walk in their God-given destiny. Kareemah Emordi's, Kingdom artistic efforts include her highly acclaimed first solo EP, “I Have No Tears For Me,” which Huffington Post writer, Ernest Owens, called a, "Spiritually Exceptional Debut Album," and Kareemah herself a “Gospel Revolutionary.” Kareemah published her book, The Two Became One, a blueprint for preparing for the man God has for you. Kareemah has been published internationally with her poem, “My Birthday Wish” selected for an international arts project with Art for Humanity in Durban, South Africa, in 2006 which has been translated into 9 languages. Kareemah wrote, produced, and directed the play "Lock Down Legacy," her response to the damaging effects of incarceration on black families. The South Bend Tribune-Review described the play as "powerful...words succeed in evoking strong emotion." (January 15, 2005). Dreams: Go to Paris and a few other countries Wants to build hospitals, schools, and churches all around the world Own Media because it affects the world so much Bring as many people to Christ as she can See people economically and Educationally stable. How you can Help: Introduce her to: Ted Turner the owner of CNN because he's a dreamer and visionary Joel Olsteen because she wants to know what it is like to take something that has already been built and then take it to a stratospheric level Oprah Winfrey so that she can ask “how did you fight the odds and become a powerhouse in the media?” Write your vision and goals down Secret to success is in your daily habits Watch the television network “no walls tv” Contact them at: kareemah.emordi@gmail.com https://www.facebook.com/nowallstv http://nowallstv.tv/
Check it out on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/33Z4VsE Check it out on Apple: https://apple.co/3AHc2DT Kareemah Emordi was a born and raised Muslim woman who converted to Christianity. Her story is a powerful testimony of God's pursuit of a woman who didn't want or need, “Their Jesus.” Kareemah Emordi has been saved now for 11 years. She is married to the love of her life Anthony, and together they are impacting the Kingdom of God saving souls and discipling them to walk in their God-given destiny. Kareemah Emordi's, Kingdom artistic efforts include her highly acclaimed first solo EP, “I Have No Tears For Me,” which Huffington Post writer, Ernest Owens, called a, "Spiritually Exceptional Debut Album," and Kareemah herself a “Gospel Revolutionary.” Kareemah published her book, The Two Became One, a blueprint for preparing for the man God has for you. Kareemah has been published internationally with her poem, “My Birthday Wish” selected for an international arts project with Art for Humanity in Durban, South Africa, in 2006 which has been translated into 9 languages. Kareemah wrote, produced, and directed the play "Lock Down Legacy," her response to the damaging effects of incarceration on black families. The South Bend Tribune-Review described the play as "powerful...words succeed in evoking strong emotion." (January 15, 2005). Dreams: Go to Paris and a few other countries Wants to build hospitals, schools, and churches all around the world Own Media because it affects the world so much Bring as many people to Christ as she can See people economically and Educationally stable. How you can Help: Introduce her to: Ted Turner the owner of CNN because he's a dreamer and visionary Joel Olsteen because she wants to know what it is like to take something that has already been built and then take it to a stratospheric level Oprah Winfrey so that she can ask “how did you fight the odds and become a powerhouse in the media?” Write your vision and goals down Secret to success is in your daily habits Watch the television network “no walls tv” Contact them at: kareemah.emordi@gmail.com https://www.facebook.com/nowallstv http://nowallstv.tv/
What's Poppin'? The Can We Talk Challenge becomes the wave. A cocktail bar rips Patrick Mohomes' brother, Jackson, after he complains about the service he received. Louisiana Judge caught using the N-word says her medication is to blame. Main Topic: The Mind Pop Zone crew give out gifts for Christmas. Recipients include: R. Kelly, the Moms of Liberty, Joe Biden, Donald Trump, Lil Boosie, Lil Nas X, Joel Olsteen and Cam Newton, just to name a few. In the Zone: Travis Hunter
Cornbread and Martin talk about Afghanistan, the story of a plumber who found money behind a toilet in Joel Olsteen's church and discover the outcome of Juan de Oñate's expedition. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/ministrymodus/message
On this episode, Manny, Paul & Terrance are back at it. The fellas give their takes on Joel Olsteen, injured hiker gets the bag & Switzerlands suicide issue. NFL recaps and weekly pick'ems. Is it still Dame Time in Portland? Kyrie wants a vegan vaccine. Terrance lets him have it!!! Why is Woodley v Paul II Happening? Movie/TV recommendations.. stay tuned for next week. Special guest! Enjoy --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/4-wisemen-pod/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/4-wisemen-pod/support
Brendan is back from his food poisoning episode and the compare each other's teeth, and talk the last time they've all gone to the dentist, Brendan's ears, Bry's new small baby on the way, potential names for his baby, C-clamping punishments, NFL player and podcaster Will Compton, UFC 269, Sammy the Bull, Hells Angels, the Jussie Smollet trial, plumber who found $600k in cast at Joel Olsteen's church and much more!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
HOUR 1Chris Cuomo out at CNN - fired for collusion with his brother (Former Gov of NY) and for new sexual harassment charges / (CNN) https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/05/media/chris-cuomo-cnn-time-slot/index.htmlMayor DeBlasio of NYC issues a vaccination mandate for employees of all 184,000 businesses in the city / (FOX News) https://www.foxnews.com/politics/de-blasio-announces-vaccine-mandate-for-private-sector-workersMark from East Anchorage on business vaccine mandatesU.S. Senator Joe Manchin siding with Senator Mike Braun (R-IN) on his amendment blocking business vaccine mandates / (FOX News) $500,000 in cash and envelopes found in Joel Olsteen's Lakewood megachurch in bathroom wall / https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-plumber-cash-wall-joel-osteen-lakewood-church-upset-no-one-contacted-himFormer Kansas U.S. and Majority Leader Senator Bob Dole passes away at age 98 / (CBS) https://www.cbsnews.com/news/washington-mourns-bob-dole/Michigan shooter's parents in custody charged with manslaughter / (NYT) https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/03/us/crumbley-parents-charged-michigan-shooting.htmlThousands of minors in the U.S. charged as adults like the Michigan shooter / (NPR) https://www.npr.org/2021/12/03/1061333484/michigan-school-shooter-is-1-of-thousands-of-u-s-juveniles-charged-as-adults-in-HOUR 2Vice President Kamala Harris's staff despise her and are quitting in high numbers / (FOX News) https://video.foxnews.com/v/6285460892001Alaska's Compensation Commission planning to raise state legislative salaries / (ADN) https://www.adn.com/politics/alaska-legislature/2021/12/05/state-commission-plans-to-cut-alaska-lawmakers-per-diem-expense-payments/Gary from East Anchorage on Kamala Harris and legislative salariesState Representative Kevin McCabe on legislative salariesTom remains disappointed Rebecca Logan didn't win the mayor's race 4 years ago in Anchorage
Episode NotesPublished on October 11, 2021Our Hosts:Mike Ercolano's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mike_ercolano/Kelly Krauss' Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kkrauss76/John Espodito's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/john_esposito15/Next Generation Training Center: https://nextgenerationtrainingcenter.com/NextGen Radio Podcast: https://nextgenerationtrainingcenter.com/nextgenradio/Mike Ercolano (00:00):What's up, everybody. Thank you for listening to NextGen Radio. This is a podcast for those of you who want the truth and nothing but the truth when it comes to diet, exercise, and all things health. This is episode number 35 and I'm Mike Ercolano. I'm here with my co-hosts Kelly Krauss and John Esposito, and we are about to fill the next 30 minutes or so of your time with some super exciting health and fitness stuff. So, if that's what you're interested in, welcome.Transcript and Show Notes:Mike Ercolano (00:34):I don't know, I'm trying to extend the intro to keep the listener's attention, but I don't know. It's not working.Kelly Krauss (00:41):All right. We're here, we're here.John Esposito (00:42): We're all here.Mike Ercolano (00:43):I don't think I have either one of yours attention either because you're looking down at your phone and...Kelly Krauss (00:48):I was just trying to find something.John Esposito (00:48):I'm trying to find good quality information.Kelly Krauss (00:50): Yeah, I was too.Mike Ercolano (00:50): Ah, cramming last minute.John Esposito (00:52):Yeah, of course. That's how I got through college. Last-minute cramming.Mike Ercolano (00:55): Yeah, I understand that.Kelly Krauss (00:57):I'm a planner, so I've let myself down with today.Mike Ercolano (01:00):You didn't plan beforehand?Kelly Krauss (01:02): Not really.John Esposito (01:03):But you were saying you were trying to.Kelly Krauss (01:04):I put thought into it, but I came up with nothing. That's not acceptable. I have to come up with something.Mike Ercolano (01:10):You're right. Yeah, that was not acceptable.Kelly Krauss (01:12): Right.Mike Ercolano (01:14):No. That's right, I didn't plan anything either, but I never do. I mean, that's not true. Sometimes I do.John Esposito (01:20): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (01:21):Yeah, we just got to get better with that.John Esposito (01:23): Yeah, we do.Kelly Krauss (01:24):Because you need time to think about it. You need time to research.John Esposito (01:28):Absolutely. Mike, you did queue a little interest in some topics I was reading on when you were asking about how our workouts are going.Mike Ercolano (01:33): Yeah?John Esposito (01:33):Yeah. So, I was reading up on a new training... I guess, science behind some training. It's the idea of 90 degree eccentric training. I don't know if you've ever heard of that, but it's just-Mike Ercolano (01:46):No, I don't think so. 90 degree eccentric training? Is that what you said?John Esposito (01:50):Yep. 90 degree eccentric isometrics is the full name.Mike Ercolano (01:54): Okay.John Esposito (01:54):So, there is a good amount of new research out and a lot by one specific, I guess, performance coach, but he's also a doctorate. He's a physical therapist, doctor in kinesiology as well as everything else.Mike Ercolano (02:10):Remix. Sorry. That didn't help either.John Esposito (02:13):For the life of me can't remember his name, but a lot of his research and lot of the research that he based his training off of is about joint angles and about how musculature affects those joint angles and vice versa. How the joint affects... My God. English. How joint angles affect musculature. There's been a lot of research in the past couple of years saying that that 90 degree angle, which we normally say is a baseline to get to, I would say, with a squat or most movements is actually the ideal positioning for most joints muscles and actually for majority of the body, for spinal alignment as well.John Esposito (02:50):Now, a lot of his training with high-end athletes... He trains a lot of quarterbacks, he trains a lot of sprinters, even bodybuilders. So, he's got a lot of variety going into there. Are finding huge results just by real simple movements. Like a goblet squat, going down into a 90 degree angles, setting that in position, keeping constant tension throughout that, and then exploding out of that movement. But you get after isometric, which it allows the muscles to secure the joint, getting into that isometric at the bottom, after the eccentric. Which we know it's forcing your muscles to squeeze, it keeps everything in position. But that is also helping to relieve injury, to treat injury, and to also prevent injury. So, there's now about 250 studies included in his website.Mike Ercolano (03:40):Hm. What's this guy's name?John Esposito (03:42):It's something Seedman. Or Joel Seedman, I believe. And a lot of his training has been going off of that, and he's been finding results that have been supporting all the research as well. It's not just lab-based, it was practice-based as well.Mike Ercolano (03:58):Right.John Esposito (03:59):These athletes that you're seeing are some of the best of the best. You have, I can't remember who thequarterback was. Is it Heinicke or Heinky?Mike Ercolano (04:11): I don't know.John Esposito (04:12):He just had a good week, put up three touchdowns.Kelly Krauss (04:16): Who is he with?Mike Ercolano (04:16):Oh, a current quarterback?John Esposito (04:17): Yeah, current quarterbacks.Kelly Krauss (04:18): Okay. So-Mike Ercolano (04:20): So, bodybuilders-Kelly Krauss (04:21):... these are the people he's trained and this is part of his study.John Esposito (04:22): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (04:22): Okay.John Esposito (04:23):So, this is all part of his practice and-Mike Ercolano (04:26): I'll look him up later.John Esposito (04:26):... I was looking into it and it's proven. Actually those angles support the right muscle activation of both glutes, quads, hamstrings, and a squat. Works the same for upper body movements as well. So, doing overhead press is coming down to a 90 degree, locking in that form, locking in that positioning, exploding out of that will work the same way. Prevents the joints from going past their quote-unquote end range of their limit, but you also still work into those end ranges. But getting to that 90 degree angle allows the muscles to secure the joint, building around that, and then you can actually bulletproof the joints to work better in bigger ranges after that.Mike Ercolano (05:04): Hm.John Esposito (05:06):I don't know if I'm explaining it right, but-Kelly Krauss (05:07): Oh, yeah.Mike Ercolano (05:08):Yeah, no, I'm following you. So, now I've never heard of this guy. And so, I'd like to look into a lot more of it.Kelly Krauss (05:15): Yeah.Mike Ercolano (05:16):It's interesting, because I use a lot of isometric stuff with either during stability work with athletes or with people who have pain.Mike Ercolano (05:25):So, for example, Vinny. You just stretched Vinny, he just walked out of here. He's got two torn ACLs MCLs. Both his knees are banged up, but he obviously continues to train hard. So, a lot of stuff we do, especially when we're not in a camp right now like we are... When he's just general training, we do a lot of isometric work and we do a lot of isometric work during his warmup and during his, excuse me, prep and prime work, and it helps alleviate his knee pain.Mike Ercolano (05:55):And I found that isometric, I mean, without any studies or anything, just by doing it and anecdotally. So, it's cool to hear that there's some studies that back that up because I've just done it because we'd do it for a little while and he says his knee feels better and we trained.John Esposito (06:10):And it was just about... I think it was 250 plus articles that he has included on his website that support this idea of 90 degree eccentric isometrics. So, lowering phase of about four or five seconds, really getting the most muscular feel out of that, coming down to that 90 degree angle, and then supporting that trains those joints into their best position, trains those joints to stay secure in those positions, but it also translates to going past those positions as well when you go into less loaded-Mike Ercolano (06:40):Interesting. And I guess maybe once you go past those it's more into the mobility training side of things,right?John Esposito (06:46): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (06:47):Well, we could talk about the kid you had in sports performance this week with his squat. That was trulyass to grass, right?Mike Ercolano (06:53): Yeah, it was terrible though.Kelly Krauss (06:54): It was so, so low.Mike Ercolano (06:55):Not terrible. And because, he didn't really know what he was doing, it was just terrible that it was actually better than what most people would be able to do naturally. Because that's closer to what we're naturally supposed to be doing than how we are now.Mike Ercolano (07:12):But the problem is, he, along with many of us, lack the stability to go that far down. He was going that far down, but his ankles were rolling in and his hip flexors. His knees were folding. He didn't have the hip strength, the stability through his hips and the mobility in his feet and ankles to be able to go that low.Mike Ercolano (07:31):But naturally we should be able to sit in that position. In fact, we should be able to... That's like if you goto third world countries, that's how they-Kelly Krauss (07:40): How they hang out.Mike Ercolano (07:41):How they hang out, how they shit, how they take a break. They sit into that position.John Esposito (07:47):It's actually, speaking of that you're saying that's how they shit, that's actually the body's naturalpositioning for-Kelly Krauss (07:52):Like the-Mike Ercolano (07:52): The Squatty Potty.John Esposito (07:53): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (07:53):The Squatty Potty. Exactly.John Esposito (07:55):I mean, about five or six years ago before I even saw the Squatty Potty, I used to be putting somethingunderneath my feet when I would go-Kelly Krauss (08:00):Well, it helps. It supposed to help the flow.John Esposito (08:03):Yeah, I had no clue about it and I was just like, "You know what?"Mike Ercolano (08:06):That's how I get my calf work in.John Esposito (08:08): Yeah?Kelly Krauss (08:08): Really?Mike Ercolano (08:08):When I'm sitting on the john, yeah.Kelly Krauss (08:10): Ah, interesting.John Esposito (08:10): Push it up there?Mike Ercolano (08:11):No, I don't do reps. No. I'm not sitting there doing calf raises while... I do read a book though.John Esposito (08:19):Yeah?Kelly Krauss (08:19): That's good.John Esposito (08:21):It is good. Yeah. It's good that you [crosstalk 00:08:22]Kelly Krauss (08:22):I have all kinds of reading the bathroom too. In fact-John Esposito (08:23): Absolutely.Kelly Krauss (08:24):... I've invoked the rule no more phones in the bathroom.John Esposito (08:26):Mm-hmm (affirmative). You get sucked in.Kelly Krauss (08:26):Because they're in there forever.Mike Ercolano (08:29): Yeah, you get sucked in.John Esposito (08:31): Oh, absolutely.Kelly Krauss (08:31): It's not okay.Mike Ercolano (08:31): No.John Esposito (08:31): You get sucked in.Kelly Krauss (08:31):Reader's Digest is the perfect thing to have in your bathroom because their articles [crosstalk 00:08:35]John Esposito (08:34):Yeah, it's just interesting enough, but then it gets boring after a while.Mike Ercolano (08:37): They still make that?John Esposito (08:37): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (08:37): Yeah.Mike Ercolano (08:37): Really? I had idea.Kelly Krauss (08:37):I love Reader's Digest.John Esposito (08:39): Oh, yeah.Kelly Krauss (08:40): I'm a big fan.John Esposito (08:40): See-Mike Ercolano (08:41):I'm surprised it's not just a virtual one now.John Esposito (08:42):My issue is I have Popular Science, a couple of the car ones in the bathroom. So, even if I don't have myphone, I'll be sitting there for hours.Kelly Krauss (08:50):Yeah, I have nutrition magazines in there.John Esposito (08:51): Yep.Mike Ercolano (08:52):I use my... Remember when I used to use that Pomodoro for doing work? That little timer thing. Is thatwhat it's called? The little Italian tomato timer thing.Kelly Krauss (08:59):Oh, yeah. Yes, yes, yes.Mike Ercolano (09:00):Yeah, I use that in the bathroom when I'm reading.Kelly Krauss (09:05): A tomato timer?Mike Ercolano (09:05):Mm-hmm (affirmative). Or else I'll be there forever.John Esposito (09:08): Yeah.Mike Ercolano (09:09):It depends on what I'm reading or especially if I'm on my phone, but I'm very, I don't know, regimented right now. So, I'm in a pretty good routine that I'm in there for 10 minutes. Set it for 10 minutes. Boom. I get my 10 minutes of reading done every morning.Kelly Krauss (09:23):Thank you. Maybe I'll get a tomato timer for my bathroom at home.John Esposito (09:25): Yeah, pop it in there.Mike Ercolano (09:26): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (09:26): This is all you got.John Esposito (09:28):You see one of them walk in, give it a little twist real quick.Kelly Krauss (09:30):And I'll keep it outside the bathroom so they can't adjust it.John Esposito (09:32): I like that.Mike Ercolano (09:33): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (09:33):Right?John Esposito (09:34):Yeah, because you can always push those things five minutes.Kelly Krauss (09:36): Uh, yeah.Mike Ercolano (09:37):Oh, yeah. I mean, it comes along with the discipline of not doing that.John Esposito (09:42): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (09:42): Yeah.Mike Ercolano (09:44):But that's why I like that instead of my phone, because if I'm on my phone I... Besides having the normal amount of ADD that we all have now with our phones, I think I have even worse ADHD. Well, I know I do because I'm taking freaking medication for it.Mike Ercolano (09:59):But I'll go in and I'm like, "No, I'm doing one task." And then all of a sudden two minutes later, I'm in a rabbit hole of something else. I'm like, "Fuck. I just told myself I wouldn't." Literally. So, if I have a timer on my phone, I'm screwed because I'll snooze it and then I'll just start Googling something or whatever. So, the little old school kitchen timer works perfectly.Kelly Krauss (10:25): I like that idea.Mike Ercolano (10:26):And there's something about the ticking.Kelly Krauss (10:29):It's soothing? Like white noise?Mike Ercolano (10:32):It's more... I mean, I guess you have meditative. It gets you more in the zone, especially when I'm reading or doing work. Well, I haven't done it doing work. But reading, it gets you in the zone, it blanks out any outside noise. Even though it's not very loud, it gives you that tempo to follow. So, I like it. Yeah.Mike Ercolano (10:50):So, if you are walking by my house at... Usually it's about 5:00 AM, 4:45 AM, and you hear a little ticking coming from the bathroom.Kelly Krauss (11:00): That's what's happening.Mike Ercolano (11:01): That's me in there reading.Kelly Krauss (11:02): Okay.John Esposito (11:03): All right.Mike Ercolano (11:03): That's me in there reading.John Esposito (11:04):Good to know next time we pass by Mike's house.Kelly Krauss (11:06): That's right.Mike Ercolano (11:07): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (11:09):We can't get in. We can't get past your gate.Mike Ercolano (11:11):You can't, you can't. So, you have to tell me if you do, because if not, I'm pulling my gun out if somebodycoming through my door at 4:00 AM.Kelly Krauss (11:16): Yeah, right?Mike Ercolano (11:17):That's for sure. But yeah. So, going back to squatting, right?Kelly Krauss (11:22): Yes.Mike Ercolano (11:22):That's where this all came from?Kelly Krauss (11:23):This was all from John's article.John Esposito (11:23): Yeah.Mike Ercolano (11:26):Or actually, isometric holds. Yeah. So, I mean, I said anecdotally. But yes, I have read, maybe not studies, but other performance coaches and trainers talk about using isometric holds and physical therapists using isometric holds to help with injury. So, that's where... I didn't just come up with a one [inaudible 00:11:49]. So, it's interesting that someone's actually taking that even further and doing a ton of studies into it.Kelly Krauss (11:54):I think we should incorporate it.John Esposito (11:55):He's going full force. I mean, most of his training that I've seen on his page, on his website, is solely 90degree eccentric isometrics. And the occasional full range of motion movement.Mike Ercolano (12:07): Right.John Esposito (12:08):But it's just to keep them secure, because high-end athletes are very injury prone, even though they aretrained not to be.Mike Ercolano (12:15): Right.Kelly Krauss (12:16):Well, one of my favorites, the one and a half of a hold.John Esposito (12:19): Yeah?Kelly Krauss (12:19): A squat, yeah.John Esposito (12:20):Oh, yeah.Kelly Krauss (12:21):I really enjoy them. And you have to watch the clock. You can't count by yourself, because if you countby yourself it's one, two, three.Mike Ercolano (12:26): Right.John Esposito (12:27):Now, a lot of the benefit comes from both the amount of blood flow that goes into the muscles with those isometrics, with the eccentrics. That was one big part of his research that the blood flow increases significantly, which one-Mike Ercolano (12:38):More blood flow, more oxygen, more nutrients.John Esposito (12:40):Yep, less injury in there because-Mike Ercolano (12:41): More recovery.John Esposito (12:42):... everything's a little bit more pliable. But also at the same time, the nervous system fires up a little bitharder as well.Mike Ercolano (12:46): Nice. Right.John Esposito (12:47):To get into those eccentric, get into that isometric specifically, fires the nervous system 10 fold.Mike Ercolano (12:52):And I'm sure, I mean, I don't know if it was part of the study, but I'm sure it fires up the cardiovascularsystem too.John Esposito (12:58): Oh, absolutely.Mike Ercolano (12:59):How many times do we have an isometric hold in our programming and it doesn't look that-John Esposito (13:04):Difficult.Mike Ercolano (13:04):... hard. People don't really think until they're halfway through-John Esposito (13:07): I mean, today.Mike Ercolano (13:07):... and their heart rate's up and they're... So, I like that. Isometric holds.John Esposito (13:12): Yeah [crosstalk 00:13:13].Kelly Krauss (13:12):I think it should be in our next program.Mike Ercolano (13:14): Send it over, yeah.Kelly Krauss (13:15): Yeah, let's do it.John Esposito (13:15): Yeah.Mike Ercolano (13:15):I'd like to follow him. I'd like to look more into him too. That's pretty cool. And look, even just the basic principles of strength training, putting on muscle and muscle mass, time under tension is one of the key, if not the most important factor, for it. So-John Esposito (13:32):Absolutely. It's a very-well rounded system.Mike Ercolano (13:33):... that isometric hold adds right into that. So, cool. Good stuff. What was his name again?John Esposito (13:39): Joel Seedman.Mike Ercolano (13:40): Joel Seedman.Kelly Krauss (13:43):Joel Olsteen.Mike Ercolano (13:44): Joel Olsteen.John Esposito (13:44):He's going to start preaching to us.Mike Ercolano (13:45):Yeah. Well, he could maybe isometrically hold his body off the ground, floating a foot off the ground.And then I'll believe all the shit he talks about and may get very, very rich off of.Kelly Krauss (14:00):Haven't we learned from all of those guys when they live in their mansions and they drive these cars?People are still following him and listening to him and believing in it?Mike Ercolano (14:09):Obviously enough to support that lifestyle.Kelly Krauss (14:11):And how... That's not worth talking about, but it just amazes me.Mike Ercolano (14:15):We can't get enough people to support us to live that lifestyle. We got to do something. Let's start lyingto people. All we have to do is manipulate people and take their money. That's what they do, right?John Esposito (14:27): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (14:27): Yeah.Mike Ercolano (14:27):That's what all these rich people do.John Esposito (14:29):That's a new business [inaudible 00:14:31].Mike Ercolano (14:31): Yeah.John Esposito (14:32):Yeah.Mike Ercolano (14:32):All right. We guarantee everyone's going to have a six pack abs and ass like J-Lo, if you're a female. Andass like John, if you're a guy.John Esposito (14:42): I was going to say...Kelly Krauss (14:45): Both of you. Or Vinny?John Esposito (14:46): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (14:46): Yeah.Mike Ercolano (14:46): Yeah, Vinny.Kelly Krauss (14:47): We could sell that one.John Esposito (14:48):I got told I can't complain about my ass anymore because Vinny's got a bigger one, so...Kelly Krauss (14:51):Well, we definitely can't put him in a lineup. He's in a league of his own.Mike Ercolano (14:54): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (14:54): Between you two-Mike Ercolano (14:56): He's pretty ridiculous.John Esposito (14:57): Yeah.Mike Ercolano (15:00):I don't know. Where were we going? Oh, we're lying about what we're going to provide people. We'regoing to do all that for you in a week, but you got to pay 50 grand up front.Kelly Krauss (15:07): Yeah.Mike Ercolano (15:08): I think it's fair.John Esposito (15:09): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (15:09): I think that's fair.Mike Ercolano (15:10):I mean, it's life-changing.Kelly Krauss (15:11): Of course.Mike Ercolano (15:12): Legit life-changing.Kelly Krauss (15:13): You'll never go back.Mike Ercolano (15:13): You'll get relieved.John Esposito (15:14):You'll never be the same afterwards.Kelly Krauss (15:15):Right. You don't want to be.John Esposito (15:17): No.Mike Ercolano (15:18): All right. So...John Esposito (15:19):Sold.Mike Ercolano (15:20):Joel Olsteen, make some room next door because we're moving in.Kelly Krauss (15:23): Yeah, we're coming by.Mike Ercolano (15:25):No, but I'd like to follow that guy Joel. Maybe if he's not too big for us, we can have him on the showand talk a little bit about it.John Esposito (15:32):That'd be interesting. That'd be a good time to do.Mike Ercolano (15:33):All right, John, you're on it. Reach out to him.John Esposito (15:35):All right. I'm going to give it a try. Ain't direct enough on the page.Mike Ercolano (15:38):Speaking of big enough, have you guys seen the average weight gain of Americans during COVID?Kelly Krauss (15:45): No, tell me.Mike Ercolano (15:46):Because it's actually been all over the place a little bit. But-John Esposito (15:48): Really?Mike Ercolano (15:48):No, no. I'm just trying to segue into what I've read, but it's not working. It's actually not all over the placebecause the news will probably not cover that because they'll just say, "Take a shot."Mike Ercolano (15:59):But anyway, so the average American gained 29 pounds over the pandemic. I guess it's still going on or whatever, but so 29 pounds. So, figure over 18 months, right? So, how many pounds is that per month? 1.6 pounds per month.Kelly Krauss (16:22): Okay.Mike Ercolano (16:23):All right. If we're looking at 18 months. Now, the average normal rate for weight gain, because theaverage American does gain weight every single year, is between 1.1 and 2.2 pounds per year.Mike Ercolano (16:38):So, during the pandemic... If it's over yet, I don't think it's over. I don't know if there's going to-Kelly Krauss (16:46):They don't want it to be over.Mike Ercolano (16:46):No, but I don't know what-Kelly Krauss (16:46): So, yes but no.Mike Ercolano (16:48):... constitutes a pandemic starting and ending. When is it over? Is it just when they're like, "All right, it's done." Or does it have to fall below a certain amount of case numbers? Anyway, that's for a different conversation. So, the average person, an American. An American. A-N. The average American. The average American.Kelly Krauss (17:13):You really worked that out.Mike Ercolano (17:14):I had to get it right. I had to get it right. It's only fair.Mike Ercolano (17:20):The average American gained a year's worth of weight, essentially, every month during the pandemic. So, just put that in... I mean, if we already had an obesity factor beforehand or an obesity issue beforehand, you imagine where we're going to be at now or five years from now, or 10 years from now, if things don't change? If the culture and the message and the society and the focus on health doesn't change...Mike Ercolano (17:52):Just look at how fast the obesity rates have grown. I mean, in the past, I don't know, 30 years, 40 years, they've quadrupled and probably more than that. Then what's going on is not a natural progression, right? It's all lifestyle. It's a lifestyle change. It's pretty clear. It's very clear. It's science, right? You got to follow the science. It's a lifestyle change that's causing this issue.Mike Ercolano (18:17):So, think about how much that has just been accelerated over the past 18 months now, right? Of how many people fall into that category. And that's the average. So, obviously there's a lot higher and a lot lower. I think median is usually a better way to look at it, to get a more fair perspective of what the middle looks like. But still, that's a number that we could go off of. So, I don't know. That's just a staggering number, and it's a sad number and a scary number because-John Esposito (18:51):A year's worth in a month.Mike Ercolano (18:51):Yeah, essentially. So, I mean, what is the... I got this little BMI calculator thing, which I used to carry around with me all the time thinking I would use it, but I never used it. But it was from a... What is this? From a vagina doctor? What are they called?Kelly Krauss (19:09): What? A gyno?Mike Ercolano (19:10): It's from a gyno, yeah.Kelly Krauss (19:12): Why do you have that?Mike Ercolano (19:14):I took it from my former business partner years ago. Yeah.Kelly Krauss (19:18):Oh, he could have used that.Mike Ercolano (19:18): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (19:21):Was he using it for himself?Mike Ercolano (19:21):But I would assume maybe there was a client of his or something that had these. He had them in theoffice, so I took one to use. But anyway, so-John Esposito (19:30):What is the average BMI? Between 25 and 30? Or is that the healthy range is 25 and 30.Kelly Krauss (19:35): Ah, yeah. Well, you got to talk women or male.Mike Ercolano (19:36): Let's go.John Esposito (19:36): I believe male is-Mike Ercolano (19:37):Let's go on here. A healthy range, according to this, is, I guess, between 20-Kelly Krauss (19:47): 18.5 to 25.Mike Ercolano (19:47): 18.5 to 25.John Esposito (19:48): Oh, wow. Okay.Mike Ercolano (19:49):Or 20 to 25. Yeah, 18.5 To 25.John Esposito (19:51):So, I mean, the average is probably between 25 and 35.Kelly Krauss (19:54): Yeah. Oh, yeah. Easy.John Esposito (19:56): At least.Mike Ercolano (19:56):Right. So, let's just take the average female. Average American female. Female height and weight.John Esposito (20:18): Let's say 5'6".Mike Ercolano (20:21):Sorry. This is all really good airtime right now while I Google this. All right, well this is as of 2016, but whatever. Close enough. A woman 20 years old and up, just under 5'4" and 170. So, that's the average female.Kelly Krauss (20:38):5'4", 170? Above 20?Mike Ercolano (20:40):That's what healthline.com says.Kelly Krauss (20:43): Wow, okay.Mike Ercolano (20:44): The average female-John Esposito (20:45): Surprised about that number.Mike Ercolano (20:46):Yeah. The average female weighs-Kelly Krauss (20:48): 5'4" is little.John Esposito (20:49): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (20:49): I'm 5'6".Mike Ercolano (20:52):This is a... Oh, that's the same website.John Esposito (20:57):170 was where I was at when I started with NextGen.Mike Ercolano (20:59):Women are generally considered tall in the United States. Yeah.John Esposito (21:01): I was-Mike Ercolano (21:01):Women are generally considered tall in the United States at 5'7", and the average height for women inthe United States is 5'4". It's another website saying that.35 (Final) - Isometric Training for Pain Managem... (Completed 10/07/21) Page 23 of 44 Transcript by Rev.comThis transcript was exported on Oct 10, 2021 - view latest version here. Kelly Krauss (21:06):Okay.Mike Ercolano (21:07):All right. So, 5'4", 170. Let's see if I can figure this thing out. Let's go to 170 and-Kelly Krauss (21:16):And the height's 5'4". This is exciting.Mike Ercolano (21:23): 5'4". It's right here.John Esposito (21:27):What, is that going to be 33, 34?Kelly Krauss (21:30):It's going to be up there.Mike Ercolano (21:30):It's in between, yeah. It's about 30. So-John Esposito (21:33): Oh, 30. Okay, yeah.Mike Ercolano (21:34):I mean, I guess I could just have Googled the average BMI of...Kelly Krauss (21:38):No, it's more to fun to watch you use this thing.Mike Ercolano (21:40):No, but my point of viewing this was because... So, the average, right, is right here. 5'4", 170. Boom.John Esposito (21:48): Yep.Mike Ercolano (21:48):All right, so now if every year it just creeps up by one pound. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Whatever. Allright, but the average person gained 29 pounds. So, that brings it up close to 190.John Esposito (22:01): [crosstalk 00:22:01] 190.Mike Ercolano (22:02):Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. All the way to 190, which now puts them close to the obese range. All right, so the average female, the average American female, was already on the borderline of being overweight and was probably going to get there according to the statistics.Kelly Krauss (22:19): Right.Mike Ercolano (22:21):But they accelerated how many? 29, 28 times or whatever it is in one year, right? In one year. And the issue with that is, and we've talked about it a gazillion times and we're going to continue to talk about it until things change, is that that right there is probably the biggest concern and cause, or the biggest concern we should have in this country, right? In terms of health, anyway. Because that is going to... If we look at economically, that's going to put the biggest strain on our system, which is also starting to wane because nurses are quitting and being fired. But that's a different topic.Mike Ercolano (23:08):But how many... If the average person is now going to be obese or close to obese after this pandemic, what's going to happen when the next generation catches up to this and, essentially, 80% of the country is obese? 70% of the country is obese. What's going to happen then? Where are we going to be at as a society, right?Mike Ercolano (23:34):And, I mean, in my opinion, that's where they want us to be. They want us to be reliant on drugs and healthcare and that's where the money's at. But what's going to change? If this past year didn't change your mind about your health, what's going to change?Kelly Krauss (23:52):Well, that's what I've said. If this didn't scare the shit out of you to get you thinking about your healthand being more serious about it nothing-John Esposito (24:00): Nothing's going to.Kelly Krauss (24:01): ... nothing will.Mike Ercolano (24:02): No.Kelly Krauss (24:03):I think, and then when people started hearing that even healthy people... Because you assume those people on ventilators were people who were heavy, who smoked, who didn't exercise, who didn't eatright. But then you were also hearing about those that were physically fit and stuff. That was like, "Oh,crap."John Esposito (24:20): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (24:20):But even more so... You definitely heard more so of the ones who were unhealthy.John Esposito (24:27): Yeah.Mike Ercolano (24:27):Of course. And those are just sensationalized cases that unfortunately do happen. And it doesn't... Thathappens with every disease and virus and issue. Yes, it happens, and it's sad. And I'm sorry it happens.Mike Ercolano (24:43):A friend of mine's friend... A friend of mine's good friend who I met died from a heart issue. He was probably late thirties, early forties. He got COVID, went to the hospital, came home, then died of a heart issue. They called it a widowmaker. They said that it was due to COVID.Mike Ercolano (25:00):Now, he already had that issue. It's not like he had a healthy heart and COVID came in and killed him. He had that heart issue that COVID exposed and probably accelerated it. That would have happened when he was maybe 65 or 60 or... Yes, that sucks. It's really, really sad. It's really... But the fact is, the average person who, or the person who died of COVID, was overweight, obese. 80%.Kelly Krauss (25:29):Or had other underlying conditions.Mike Ercolano (25:31):Almost three. Or I think it's over three now. I think they pushed it up over three. I'm trying to find... I'mon the... The CDC's website is very a pain in the ass.John Esposito (25:42): To navigate? Yeah.Mike Ercolano (25:44):Yeah. But anyway, I think it's over three the last time I saw. So, the average person who died of COVID ordied with COVID was 80 years old and had three-John Esposito (25:59): Underlying health condition?Mike Ercolano (26:01):Comorbidities. These issues that will kill them. So, we got to understand the numbers that we're looking at. And we got to understand the facts and the statistics. And I only say this because I know I have to say this right now. This is not an anti-vax rant. I'm not trying to say don't take the vaccine. If you feel like it's going to make you safe, then take it. If you don't feel like it's going to make you safe, then don't take it. That is your choice. And you don't have to tell me, I don't want to know. I don't care.Mike Ercolano (26:30):All right, this is not about that. All right? This is about the fact that this is an issue that is completely in our control, right? This is a lifestyle issue. It's completely in our control as a society. And no matter how you look at it, like I've started to say before, whether it's economically, it's going to put a huge strain on it. Whether it's socially, think about the amount of depression, the amount of...Mike Ercolano (26:52):I mean, we see suicides going up every year. That's not changing, that's not ending. We see drug use going up every year. That's not changing, that's not ending. These are all symptoms of a failing society, or of a dying society, and these are all symptoms that could be cured through a little bit of exercise and a little bit of-John Esposito (27:20): Proper nutrition?Mike Ercolano (27:21):Well... Right. I mean, that's not even that hard, right? I wasn't even going to say proper nutrition, I wasjust going to say paying a little bit closer attention to what you eat. Not eating the super-size meal.Kelly Krauss (27:33): Right.John Esposito (27:33): Yeah, go for the small.Mike Ercolano (27:35):One of my clients who has Asperger's. He's a functioning, great adult. He's a great guy. He's got Asperger's and so sometimes you have to talk to him on a different level and keep it more simple. And so, we're talking about his diet and he goes to a sandwich shop every day at lunch and gets his extra large sandwich. So we said, "Let's cut it down to the medium sandwich."Mike Ercolano (28:06):Go every day, I don't care. They have that medium sandwich. I talked to his mom the other day and his mom said he was going three days a week. He's on his own, and now he's eating protein and veggies only at night with his meal. This is not anything I talked to him about, but it-Kelly Krauss (28:24):That's so great.Mike Ercolano (28:24):Just because we kept it simple. We kept it simple, and it doesn't have to be complicated, right? It doesn't have to be this scary thing. Weight loss doesn't have to be a scary thing, getting healthier. But the solution isn't in whatever drug comes out next to fix whatever the next problem is. That is not the solution.Mike Ercolano (28:44):I know we go there almost all the time on the show, but I think it's our duty to do that because there's not enough real information being spewed. And I say spewed because it's all garbage. It's all propaganda bullshit. There's not enough people talking about the real truth about how to be healthy and how to not die from COVID, statistically speaking.John Esposito (29:11):It's just a whole bunch of small steps. Not really... Just you don't have to make any big leaps, no bigstrides.Kelly Krauss (29:16):Right, right, right. Right, exactly.John Esposito (29:16):It's just one little tiny thing at a time. Go out for a walk more than you would a week.Kelly Krauss (29:21):And also pay attention to yourself. Why are you overeating? You have to address those issues because they're not going to go away. You can take a magic pill, sure. But once you stop taking that magic pill, you haven't addressed the issue as to why you have the habits you have.Kelly Krauss (29:35):And, sure, it's uncomfortable, it's scary. But I think you feel better about yourself once you start making these changes and start identifying with yourself and saying, "Hey, I had a stressful day at work. Let me go for a walk instead of sit down and eat dinner right away." Or...Mike Ercolano (29:49):Well, it's proven. I mean, it's a fact that it changes your chemistry. Your depression is lessened, anxiety is lessened. It never goes away, especially if you're someone who's diagnosed with it who actually has a chemical thing, it doesn't go away. But exercise does lessen all of that.Kelly Krauss (30:08): Absolutely.Mike Ercolano (30:09):Exercise makes you a more productive human being in life. If you want to talk about protecting the people around you... All right, no, you can't spread fat to somebody else, of course, but you could absolutely spread your unhealthy lifestyle around to other people. You could definitely spread your own depression and your own-Kelly Krauss (30:34): Negativity.Mike Ercolano (30:34):... negativity to other people. You could be a burden in people's lives. And as blunt as that is, we could allbe that. We could all fall into that. You're either a burden or you're...Mike Ercolano (30:50):I don't know what the opposite of burden is. You're helping somebody or-Kelly Krauss (30:53): Part of the solution?Mike Ercolano (30:53):Part of their life. We all have those people. They're either negative energy or positive energy in our life. And unfortunately, sometimes those negative energies are family. We can't do anything about that, but I know I'm doing everything I can to cut out negative energy in my life that I can, that I could choose to cut out.John Esposito (31:13): Of course.Mike Ercolano (31:14):I have people who are drains on me I'm not necessarily associating with any more. And it's not because I dislike them as people, but they're a drain on me.John Esposito (31:26): It's for your own sake.Mike Ercolano (31:27):And someone who doesn't take care of their health and someone who doesn't pay attention to what their role is as a human being and actually puts themselves or puts their health as a precedent, doesn't really have the same values as I do.Mike Ercolano (31:45):And again, I have people who I'm really good friends with who are overweight, but they're trying really hard, right? They're working. It's not like I'm fat shaming anybody here, I'm just trying to draw a conclusion to... How many people who are miserable would be helped if they put exercise in their life?Kelly Krauss (32:10):Absolutely.Mike Ercolano (32:11): And healthy eating.John Esposito (32:13):And it's proven scientifically and practically.Mike Ercolano (32:16):Right. You want to follow the science? There's the science. The science is there. The science has beenthere for a long time, all right.John Esposito (32:22):Research has proven it time and time again, that it lowers symptoms of depression, lowers symptoms ofanxiety.Kelly Krauss (32:27):Right, so follow the science, right? Hasn't that been the saying over the past 18 months? Well, there it is.Mike Ercolano (32:32):Right, well that's become a cult thing.Kelly Krauss (32:34): Too lazy.Mike Ercolano (32:35):That's become a cult thing now in my opinion. Follow the science. That's like an identity almost. A lot of people who like to use that, it's almost like their whole being has been bought into that image. Or that it's like a religion in my view, as science is now religion. Science is... Not science itself, but the concept of science is used as religion now. And I think it's become very politicized, and science can't be really trusted anymore either. But that's neither here nor there, I guess. I don't know.Kelly Krauss (33:16): Mm-hmm (affirmative).John Esposito (33:22):I agree. There's too many benefits to not include some fitness into your life, whether it's something simple like a walk, or whether it's getting into a gym once a week. It's better than nothing. It's better than not moving. It's better than not going out and doing something. Even just getting sunlight helps with all those mental symptoms. And that's proven as well. That's proven through practice.Mike Ercolano (33:44):Well, yeah. I mean, that's, again, another proven way to lessen the symptoms of COVID is D3, right? Orat least they tie together, vitamin D3 and the symptoms of COVID.Mike Ercolano (34:02):So, I don't know. I don't know how I got off that rant again, talking about this shit. It's just frustrating. It's frustrating because there's a lot of fingers being pointed in a lot of directions that they shouldn't be pointed at. And in the past, I don't think they would have.Mike Ercolano (34:24):Just think back to 2018, 2019. Just think if in 2018 or '19 places were stopping people from eating at their restaurant because they didn't have a certain vaccine? In the name of health, right? That would never be going on back then. It would never be going on back then. Never. Right? We would think it's crazy. If another country was doing that?Kelly Krauss (34:50): Right.Mike Ercolano (34:53):We don't even see the shit that's happening in Australia and Canada right now. That shit's crazy. But if in 2018, if another country was banning people from eating at their restaurants because they didn't have a vaccine... Anyway, they'd be holding fucking rallies and having GoFundMes for the people with vaccine discrimination in Australia or something like that. Right? It would be completely different thing. But anyway.Kelly Krauss (35:27):It'd be a different time for sure.John Esposito (35:28): Absolutely.Mike Ercolano (35:29):Anyway. One thing you can control is, obviously, your health and that's where we were going with this,so...John Esposito (35:37):Yeah, take control of your health. Get some ownership of it. Make a change, even if it's a small change.One step at a time.Kelly Krauss (35:43): Yep.John Esposito (35:44):And it's just only going to better you, not worsen your life.Kelly Krauss (35:48):And nobody's ever said I've regretted doing that workout or that walk. Nobody's ever said that, so force yourself to go outside and go for that walk. It'll be worth it.John Esposito (35:58):Mm-hmm (affirmative). If you can commit to it and you keep yourself consistent with it, there's notgoing to be any regrets. It's going to be all benefit.Mike Ercolano (36:04): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (36:06):Mike, you're going to get your flu shot?Mike Ercolano (36:07):No. I have never gotten it. I've never gotten it before, and I don't see why I'll get it now.John Esposito (36:14):I haven't gotten it the past few years. I don't know if that's fitness-related, but I've just been feelinghealthier.Kelly Krauss (36:21):Oh, you haven't gotten the flu?Mike Ercolano (36:22): Oh, the flu.John Esposito (36:22):Yeah, I haven't gotten the flu shot either a few years.Kelly Krauss (36:24): Oh, yeah?John Esposito (36:24):Yeah, just because I haven't had any flu symptoms past couple of years.Mike Ercolano (36:28):Yeah, I got sick last year. I think it was COVID though. It was last-Kelly Krauss (36:31):That was February, I think. Right?Mike Ercolano (36:32):February. It was right before everything. So, I think that was COVID. But I don't know, I just...Kelly Krauss (36:39):But let me ask you this. Have you guys had the flu?John Esposito (36:42): Yeah in the past.Kelly Krauss (36:43): So, how bad was it?Mike Ercolano (36:44):I had it once in the past five year.John Esposito (36:47):I mean, I had the flu for four day spanned. It wasn't terrible. Obviously, it didn't feel good. My body feltlike it was achy, but it wasn't anything past that.Kelly Krauss (36:57): Right.Mike Ercolano (36:58):Yeah. From what I can remember, the flu kicked my ass last time, but-Kelly Krauss (37:00): Oh, it sucks.John Esposito (37:01): Oh, absolutely.Mike Ercolano (37:02): I didn't die.John Esposito (37:03): No.Mike Ercolano (37:03): I'm still here.Kelly Krauss (37:03):But it's putting your body through that, I think, is a win on the side of immunity and the side of health.Mike Ercolano (37:11):Well, I mean, here's the thing about immunity is that there's... Once you're exposed to a virus, your body has the memory cells of that immunity to that. So even if your antibodies are quote-unquote not there anymore, as soon as you're exposed to the virus again, right? Those antibodies will kick back in. Now, obviously there's different variants, just like we know all the shit, the Delta or whatever, and the different strands of flu every year and all this stuff. But once you've been exposed to it, your body has a memory to be able to fight that off again, even if you don't have the antibodies anymore. Even then.Mike Ercolano (37:51):So, there's a lot of misinformation about that. And all you have to do is look at the studies that have come out of Israel right now on COVID that show that it's significantly higher immunity to it if you've already had it versus having the vaccine.Kelly Krauss (38:09): Right.John Esposito (38:10): Yeah.Mike Ercolano (38:10):And that's science. That is science. That is proven science, but yet you're still not allowed to be exempt from the vaccine even if you show that you've had it. Because they're using antibodies as a way, which is just not scientifically and factually true. Because, yes, antibodies are there after you're exposed, but your body has cells in that remember, and when you're exposed again you have a lesser reaction to it. Right? Even if it is a different strain. Which is why they talk about the flu shot and, yes, you should get it because it might lessen your symptoms even if it is a different strain. It's the same shit. It's all the same shit. But if you're not healthy, it's going to suck anyway, right?Kelly Krauss (38:57):Yeah, it's going to be even worse.Mike Ercolano (38:58):It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. If you're overweight and obese and if it's... Again, we said it the lastpodcast, we'll say it again.Mike Ercolano (39:05):If it's not COVID, if it's not the flu, if it's not whatever other shit has wiped out people in this world... If it's not one of those, it's going to be the next thing, because your health is the center stone for everything. And that's something you can control. We're just going the wrong direction as society.Kelly Krauss (39:28):Yep, totally. Well, we're good.John Esposito (39:31): Yes, we are.Kelly Krauss (39:32):My family's good.Mike Ercolano (39:32):Yeah, yeah. And, like you said, there's always those extremes. Point at the finger of look at the guywho's out running marathons every day and he died of a heart attack and whatever. Yeah.John Esposito (39:45): There's outliers in everything.Mike Ercolano (39:46): Right. We're all going to die.John Esposito (39:47): You can't just go off on-Mike Ercolano (39:47): We're all going to die.John Esposito (39:47): Right. Exactly, exactly.Mike Ercolano (39:50):So, we want to live our lives fighting, and we want to live our lives trying to be the best we can. Or wewant to live our lives-Kelly Krauss (39:57):And feeling the best you can, right?Mike Ercolano (39:58):And even more importantly, feeling the best you can.John Esposito (40:00): Absolutely.Mike Ercolano (40:01):So, if you're on that scale, unfortunately, of the 29 pound increase, do something about it now. Don't wait. It's going to suck the longer you wait, it's going to get harder and it's going to get harder and then eventually you're not going to do it. Don't put it off. Start tomorrow. Start tonight. Start as soon as you get done listening to this show. Go out for a walk or do some jumping jacks or do something and start today. Start immediately. Don't wait till Monday, because Monday will always be pushed back to the following Monday.John Esposito (40:40):Make that commitment to yourself.Mike Ercolano (40:42):Right. If you dangle that carrot, you'll always chase that carrot. But you got to take a bite of it right now. I don't know. I don't know how to change that analogy to make it get it. But yeah, get it. Do something. Start moving.John Esposito (41:00): I like that.Mike Ercolano (41:01): Do you?John Esposito (41:02): [crosstalk 00:41:02] culture.Mike Ercolano (41:02): Do you like that?John Esposito (41:03):Chase the carrot. Get a bit of it.Kelly Krauss (41:05):Yeah. Let's stick with that one.Mike Ercolano (41:08):All right, yeah. So, if you're over... Well, I mean, don't bite the carrot though, because we're trying tomake you lose weight. So...John Esposito (41:14): True.Mike Ercolano (41:15):If you're... Well, no, a carrot's healthy though.Kelly Krauss (41:16):Well, what are you talking about?Mike Ercolano (41:16):We're not telling you not to eat.Kelly Krauss (41:16):Carrots are good.Mike Ercolano (41:16): Yeah, all right.Kelly Krauss (41:16):It's the candy bar. You don't want to eat the candy bar.Mike Ercolano (41:21):Oh, yeah. Halloween coming up.John Esposito (41:23): Don't chase the candy bar.Mike Ercolano (41:24):My [crosstalk 00:41:24] really show on that.Kelly Krauss (41:24):What's your favorite candy?John Esposito (41:27): Oh.Mike Ercolano (41:28): Probably Reese's, I guess.Kelly Krauss (41:30): Peanut Butter Cups?Mike Ercolano (41:31): Yeah, probably.Kelly Krauss (41:31): Little or the full one?John Esposito (41:31): Boring.Mike Ercolano (41:33):No, I actually like the dark chocolate thins.Kelly Krauss (41:36):Oh, yes, I'll give you that.John Esposito (41:37):Oh, yeah.Mike Ercolano (41:38):I could pop those like fucking candy.Kelly Krauss (41:39): Are they frozen?Mike Ercolano (41:40):No, I don't like them frozen.John Esposito (41:42):I'm a Sour Patch Kid sort of guy.Kelly Krauss (41:45):I tell my kids that's such cancer candy.John Esposito (41:46):I know it is, but it's just so good.Kelly Krauss (41:49): Are you serious?John Esposito (41:50): I love Sour Patch Kids.Kelly Krauss (41:50):I really thought people grew out of the Sour Patch phase.John Esposito (41:54): Nope.Mike Ercolano (41:54):I like the Sour Patch weed gummies.Kelly Krauss (41:55): Oh.John Esposito (41:58): Yeah.Mike Ercolano (41:59): Yeah. We get those.John Esposito (42:02):That's interesting. Yeah, I like my Sour Patch.Kelly Krauss (42:03):Are you a gummy type person? Gummy bears, gummy worms.John Esposito (42:07):Yeah, gummy bears used to be my favorite thing when I was younger.Kelly Krauss (42:09): Really?John Esposito (42:09): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (42:11): [crosstalk 00:42:11].Mike Ercolano (42:11): I'm a chocolate guy.Kelly Krauss (42:11): Yeah, me too.John Esposito (42:12):If it was chocolate, it would have to be a Baby Ruth bar. I love my Baby Ruths.Mike Ercolano (42:15): With all the nuts in it?Kelly Krauss (42:16):You know what that looks like.Mike Ercolano (42:18):Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, on that note, I guess we should end the show considering we just rantedfor 30 minutes about losing weight and now we're going to talk about candy Kelly Krauss (42:27):Mike Ercolano (42:31):No, that's true. Because we can in moderation right.Kelly Krauss (42:34):Balance. It's all about balance.John Esposito (42:34):At least we talked about 90 degree eccentrics at one point too.Mike Ercolano (42:36): That is true.Kelly Krauss (42:38):We could dangle... You're at the 90 degree squat, right? And then you're dangling the Reese's Pieces infront of your face. Don't bite the-Mike Ercolano (42:44): The Reese's Pieces?Kelly Krauss (42:45):Don't bite... Oh, the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup.Mike Ercolano (42:47):Just dangling one Reese's. How are you going to thread that up? You going to wrap it around?Kelly Krauss (42:52):I don't know. I might have to take out the glue gun.Mike Ercolano (42:54): Mm.John Esposito (42:54): Mm.Kelly Krauss (42:55): To make that happen.Mike Ercolano (42:55):Make sure it's a non-toxic glue.Mike Ercolano (43:00): Perfect.Kelly Krauss (43:01): That's what I'll do.Mike Ercolano (43:02): Melt down one of mine.Kelly Krauss (43:03): Yeah, okay. Even better.Mike Ercolano (43:06):All right. Well, I am officially out of time, so-John Esposito (43:08): Ending that rant.Mike Ercolano (43:09): Yeah, we're ending it there.Kelly Krauss (43:11): That was fun.Mike Ercolano (43:11):But thank you again, guys, for listening to this episode. Episode number 35. Please do us a favor. Sharethe show, like it, comment, leave a review. I don't know why-John Esposito (43:25): Give us suggestions.Mike Ercolano (43:27):... I don't ever talk about in the beginning of the show... Planning ahead. I don't ever why I don't plan to-Kelly Krauss (43:32): The closing?Mike Ercolano (43:33):... know what to actually say because I don't even know what you're supposed to do. But help us out alittle bit. We appreciate it.Bye, guys.Kelly Krauss (43:42): I don't-Mike Ercolano (43:42):You have something to say?Kelly Krauss (43:43):No, I'm just saying I don't think you have to tell people all that stuff. When you listen to podcasts, areyou listening to them rant and rave? Rant at the end about liking us?Mike Ercolano (43:52): Yeah.John Esposito (43:52): I think most times-Kelly Krauss (43:53): The whole thing?John Esposito (43:53):I think most times they hear it in the beginning.Mike Ercolano (43:55):Most times in the beginning-Kelly Krauss (43:56): It's usually scripted.Mike Ercolano (43:56): ... and/or at the end.John Esposito (43:57): Yeah.Mike Ercolano (43:57): Yeah.Kelly Krauss (43:58):And you listen to that every time you listen to the same podcast? You listen to that every time?Yeah.John Esposito (44:02):You get this, "Thank you to our promoters," or "Thank you to our sponsors."Mike Ercolano (44:08):Yeah, I listen to it. Or I just skip past 30 seconds.John Esposito (44:10): Yeah.Mike Ercolano (44:12): So...Kelly Krauss (44:13): All right.Mike Ercolano (44:13):And, supposedly, it helps significantly. Asking people to do it significantly helps.Kelly Krauss (44:19):Right. I'm just saying it could be a quick, "Like our podcast. Comment. We always love to hear from you."Mike Ercolano (44:25):Well, yeah. Well, that's what I mean. I never know what to say, so I always drag it on. That's my wholepoint of this is that I don't know how to end it. But man, I should really do a better-Kelly Krauss (44:34):Okay. I guess my point was it should be short and sweet.Mike Ercolano (44:35):Well, right. And I should do a better job of it. That was the point of what I was saying is that I got to do abetter job of the closing.Kelly Krauss (44:42): Okay.Mike Ercolano (44:43): Yes. All right, so now-Kelly Krauss (44:45):Well, now that we've cleared that up.This transcript was exported on Oct 10, 2021 - view latest version here. Mike Ercolano (44:46):Now that we've... Yes. Like the show. Bye.
Welcome to the 80th week of the show!!! In this weeks episode the fellas came to the table and the mics to give you the usual...sports, news, DaBaby, Joel Olsteen and fights always happening on trips to and from Miami. But the real talk revolves around how we as a culture have this attitude as the rich people OWE us(less rich lol)! No matter the situation it runs through our veins that the better off just owe us...they break this down from athletes, billionaires and even in your typical everyday relationship where you owe it to give what you got to the other person cause "You Got It" ! Press play and enjoy!!!
We have a lot of "Christians" who claim to hear from God, see and talk to angels all the time, preach weekly health and wealth messages in churches throughout the world. Are these people scriptural? Are people like Creflo Dollar, Brian Simmons, The Passion Translation Bible, Bethel, John Gray, TD Jakes, Benny Hinn, Kat Kerr and others preaching the Bible? How can ministers receive messages from Jesus or Angels but what they receive do not line up with the Bible? Many believers are being led astray. This is the first segment in a series of teachings on wolves in sheep's clothing. We are warned of these false teachers and false prophets throughout the Bible. Pastor Wigfall goes through multiple scriptures to expose the false messages that people are spreading. In this series we discuss whether or not it is biblical to call out false teachers by name. Matthew 7:15-23 This lesson was originally recorded on May 1, 2021.
313 [PM 144] Coping While CoopedMy 75 Hard reading has led me to a book by Joel Olsteen. I am on the chapter on shame and I found it quite relatable to the things we discuss here. For starters, lets focus on "shame OFF you" instead of "shame ON you". I hope you find this as interesting as I did and can appreciate the message.------------------------------------------------Did you enjoy the show? Please leave us a rate and review!This helps us reach other gamblers who may need to hear recovery messages.-------------------------------------------------Get in touch with me!Email address : bobbie@321NoKiddin.comFacebook : www.facebook.com/321NoKiddinInstagram : www.instagram.com/bobbietheawesome_321nokiddinPinterest : www.pinterest.ph/bobbiemalatestaLinkedIn : www.linkedin.com/in/bobbiemalatestaWebsite : www.321nokiddin.com**A super special thanks to Justin Furstenfeld for granting us permission to use his music on the show!Please support and follow the Blue October band on:Facebook : www.facebook.com/blueoctoberInstagram : www.instagram.com/blueoctoberbandTwitter : www.twitter.com/blueoctoberYoutube : www.youtube.com/user/blueoctoberofficialWebsite : www.blueoctober.comSupport the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/bobbieawesome/about-me-3-21-no-kiddin)
313 [PM 144] Coping While CoopedMy 75 Hard reading has led me to a book by Joel Olsteen. I am on the chapter on shame and I found it quite relatable to the things we discuss here. For starters, lets focus on "shame OFF you" instead of "shame ON you". I hope you find this as interesting as I did and can appreciate the message.------------------------------------------------Did you enjoy the show? Please leave us a rate and review!This helps us reach other gamblers who may need to hear recovery messages.-------------------------------------------------Get in touch with me!Email address : bobbie@321NoKiddin.comFacebook : www.facebook.com/321NoKiddinInstagram : www.instagram.com/bobbietheawesome_321nokiddinPinterest : www.pinterest.ph/bobbiemalatestaLinkedIn : www.linkedin.com/in/bobbiemalatestaWebsite : www.321nokiddin.com**A super special thanks to Justin Furstenfeld for granting us permission to use his music on the show!Please support and follow the Blue October band on:Facebook : www.facebook.com/blueoctoberInstagram : www.instagram.com/blueoctoberbandTwitter : www.twitter.com/blueoctoberYoutube : www.youtube.com/user/blueoctoberofficialWebsite : www.blueoctober.comSupport the show9 of us wrote about the concept of Belonging and share our individual stories about how we found belonging.Please check it out in the link below!Link to our book- BELONGING- Secrets to Soothe the Soul https://amzn.to/45qS6pl Get in touch with me! Questions or feedback or just want to connect? Email address : bobbie@321NoKiddin.com Facebook : www.facebook.com/321NoKiddin Instagram : www.instagram.com/bobbietheawesomest Pinterest : www.pinterest.ph/bobbiemalatesta LinkedIn : www.linkedin.com/in/bobbiemalatesta YouTube : www.youtube.com/channel/UCkUV58i4z2Se3jXuDldcXaA Website : www.321nokiddin.com **A super special thanks to Justin Furstenfeld for granting us permission to use his music on the show!Please support and follow the Blue October band on: Facebook : www.facebook.com/blueoctober Instagram : www.instagram.com/blueoctoberband Twitter : www.twitter.com/blueoctober Youtube : www.youtube.com/user/blueoctoberofficial Support the show
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