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Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we're joined by Todd Wilson, co-founder of Exponential and a leader at Multipliers, where he helps churches and ministry leaders pursue multiplication and greater Kingdom impact. Todd has spent decades studying church planting, disciple-making, and movements, and his latest book, How Did We Get Here? Looking Back to Look Forward, explores the evolution of the American church growth movement and what it may mean for the future. Are churches working harder while reaching fewer people? Have our systems become better at producing activity than disciples? Todd challenges leaders to examine the operating system beneath modern church ministry and consider what needs to change if we want to see true reproduction and multiplication. We have a disciple-making problem. // For years, Todd has championed the goal of seeing more churches reproduce. Research once showed that fewer than 5% of U.S. churches were reproducing, and while that number has improved, multiplication remains rare. But Todd believes church planting is ultimately an outcome of a deeper issue: most churches do not have a functional culture of disciple-making. If disciples aren’t reproducing disciples, churches will struggle to reproduce churches. Reproduction has to become generational. // Multiplication begins when reproduction continues beyond the first generation. One disciple makes another disciple, who then makes another, and the process keeps going. The same is true with churches. A church plants a church, which plants another church, which plants another. Once reproduction moves across multiple generations, addition becomes multiplication and the potential for movement begins to emerge. The church growth system has slowly changed. // Todd’s research traces roughly 75 years of church growth history, beginning with missionary Donald McGavran. McGavran originally studied why some churches on the mission field grew while others did not and developed principles aimed at helping missionaries reach more people. Over time, those ideas moved into the American church and blended with seeker-sensitive ministry, the megachurch movement, purpose-driven strategies, multisite, church planting networks, and other innovations. Much good came from these eras, but Todd believes the system gradually shifted toward institutional and programmatic growth. Good intentions can still create the wrong outcomes. // Todd is careful not to blame previous generations of church leaders. Many of the people who shaped modern church ministry were deeply evangelistic and sincerely wanted to reach people. Yet over time, the dominant definition of success increasingly became bigger attendance, larger programs, and expanding organizations. The unintended result is a consumer-driven model that can attract people effectively but struggles to produce disciples who reproduce. The angst leaders feel is real. // Todd hears a growing frustration among pastors: churches are spending more money, employing more staff, and working harder while seeing less fruit. Even churches that appear successful can sense something isn’t right beneath the surface. Todd believes much of that angst comes from trying to produce multiplication through an operating system designed primarily for addition. Naming the problem is an important first step toward changing it. Leaders must model what they want reproduced. // Todd believes transformation has to begin with senior leaders. If disciple-making is going to become the church’s growth engine, lead pastors and elders must personally participate in a simple, reproducible disciple-making process. Rather than merely preaching about discipleship, pastors should be able to name the people they are actively discipling and allow those relationships to shape the way they lead and teach. Keep the process simple and reproducible. // Whatever model a church chooses, Todd believes it must be simple enough for anyone to reproduce. The goal isn’t another sophisticated program but a way of following Jesus that can move naturally from person to person. The same approach should work for a lead pastor, a volunteer, or even a teenager. Simplicity increases the possibility of multiplication. Give the next generation permission to experiment. // Todd isn’t calling churches to abandon everything they’ve inherited. Instead, he encourages leaders to learn from the past, retain what is fruitful, and recognize that the current operating system may be losing effectiveness. Churches should create space for younger leaders to experiment, learn, and discover more reproducible approaches to disciple-making without being forced to preserve every assumption of previous generations. To learn more about Todd Wilson, visit multipliers.org. You can also download a free PDF or audio version of How Did We Get Here? Looking Back to Look Forward at church-growth.org or pick up a paper copy on Amazon.com. In addition, check out Todd Wilson’s conversation with Carey Nieuwhof, and the interview A Simple & Scalable Way to Reproduce Christians with David Putnam. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I'm grateful for that. If you enjoyed today's show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they're extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Lastly, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, to get automatic updates every time a new episode goes live! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Portable Church Your church is doing really well right now, and your leadership team is looking for solutions to keep momentum going! It could be time to start a new location. Maybe you have hesitated in the past few years, but you know it's time to step out in faith again and launch that next location. Portable Church has assembled a bundle of resources to help you leverage your growing momentum into a new location by sending a part of your congregation back to their neighborhood on Mission. This bundle of resources will give you a step-by-step plan to launch that new or next location, and a 5 minute readiness tool that will help you know your church is ready to do it! Click here to watch the free webinar “Launch a New Location in 150 Days or Less” and grab the bundle of resources for your church! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. I am so glad that you have tuned in today for this reason, friends, lean in. um I want you to be a part of the conversation that we’re having today. The leader that we’ve got on the phone, on the I don’t know why say the phone because we have not been on phones for podcasts in, you know, 10 years, but on the line is really pressing on an issue that I know that a large portion, you know, almost 90 percent of the churches in the country need to be doing what we’re talking about today. And they’re not. And I really want you to lean in and learn from Todd Wilson. Rich Birch — If you do not know Todd Wilson, he has been the founding and co-founding member of a number of faith-based organizations, including Exponential and Multipliers. He has designed a number, and been a part of the launch of a multiple of national church planting networks. He’s currently a team member, or team leader at Multipliers and serves leaders and ministries who are pursuing multiplication, helping them develop vision and strategy ultimately for a 100 X impact. You know that I love that. Rich Birch — Recently, he wrote a book that caught my attention that I want to dive in on and kind of um unpack some of the core lessons for us today. It’s called, How Did We Get Here? Looking Back to Look Forward. And it’s really looking at the whole conversation, American church growth movement. Todd, welcome to the podcast. So glad you’re here.Todd Wilson — Rich, it’s great to be here with you. I’m really looking forward to this conversation.Rich Birch — Yeah, me too. So why don’t we start with kind of giving us a picture of Multipliers and the work that you’re focused on now, kind of set the context for us.Todd Wilson — Sure. It’s probably good to have the context, you know, at at my core, my own personal calling. I am an entrepreneurial engineer at my core. I love to envision, envisage opportunities, seek strategies and opportunities of the future. And so where I like to do it anywhere, there’s potential for a hundred X kingdom impact. And that’s what gets me in trouble often is the, wherever there’s potential for a hundred X kingdom impact.Todd Wilson — When I came out of the marketplace over 25 years ago into full-time ministry, the most natural hundred X place for me, in addition to being in the local church was, was church planting. I was just drawn to church planting. I got to spend almost 20 years, ah you know, leading Exponential and co-founding there.Todd Wilson — And in recent years, really trying to get even more focused really on the 100x impact. I want to spend my next decade as I’m getting older here, you know, what’s it look like for every hour, for every dollar, for every bit of energy, to see 100x return.Todd Wilson — And so the idea of Multipliers, and it’s a small team of us that, you know, we have a definite bias within the kingdom space to the disciple-making as the mission and engine of the church. And what’s it look like to get back to Jesus style disciple making. But then church planting and multiplication, what does it look like to be doing things that that are even capable of reproduction that can lead to multiplication and ultimately movement. So our goal is to just help champion at the personal level through personal calling, at the church level through disciple making and cultures of disciple making that can ultimately produce movements.Todd Wilson — And so we are a champion and advocate for that.Rich Birch — That’s fantastic. You and I are are similarly wired. And over the years, you know I’ve heard people talk about, you know, and they always they’ll do like a series at a church on spiritual gifts. And I’ve often wondered because of the kinds of things I’ve been involved in, if, you know, if I have some sort of apostolic gift, just because of the stuff I found myself doing and, you know, launching campuses and all that.Rich Birch — And it’s interesting that gift over the years I’ve heard, which is similar to the kind of work you’ve been doing over the years is the only gift that I’ve ever noticed that preachers, they seem to talk down about it. And they’re like, stop starting things like, you know, they’re like, they always, you know, are like on the negative side of, you know, being the guy who wants to be entrepreneurial and see new things.Rich Birch — And that’s a part of what I admire about you and the good work you’ve done. When you were at Exponential over those, you know, with you that you co-founded, you know, that almost 20 years, you know, they had this, they saw some amazing things happen there under your leadership, where this idea of moving church reproduction from under 5%, really trying to push us towards 16%.Rich Birch — So for people that are unaware of this, I think this is good context to kind of take a step back and talk about why that number, why are we actually, why are you giving decades of your life towards this idea of trying to move towards 16%? What do we mean by that when you you know talk about that? Because I think that’s a good foundational idea for today’s conversation.Todd Wilson — Yeah. I think it’s important it to understand, again, context for me. I didn’t grow up a Christian. I never had a dream to be in full-time vocational ministry. I’ve never wanted to be a lead pastor of anything. You know, ministry was the farthest thing from my mind growing up. When you’re asking kids, what do you want do when you grow up? Todd Wilson — So when God brought me into full-time vocational ministry, and I’m going to say kicking and screaming, I wanted to go start a company. I wanted to go make money. I wanted to go change the world. And so coming into full-time vocational ministry, why in the world would I want to see anything except movements happening? Rich Birch — That’s good.Todd Wilson — We read about movements in the New Testament. Why do I want to be personally satisfied if God’s calling me into a new life of ministry with anything less than seeing movements?Todd Wilson — And so that was my context of stepping in and and leading at Exponential and what was driving us. And your question from 5% to 16%. Well, Houston, we have a problem.Todd Wilson — If movements are multiplication, and multiplication is generational reproduction, and we, at the time we were starting Exponential, there were less than 5% of U.S. churches were reproducing. You just got to let that sink in.Rich Birch — Yeah.Todd Wilson — 95% of churches just 25 years ago, 95% of churches in the U.S. are not reproducing. It’s physically impossible, both mathematically and biblically, to see multiplication and ultimately movements if less than 5% of churches are reproducing.Todd Wilson — So the answer to where’s the 5 to 16, for me personally, God’s called me into a new life and a new ministry. I don’t want to be satisfied with just status quo, but the state of the U.S. church is such that we physically can’t see 100x impact in the operating system of how things are working. Todd Wilson — So the 5 to 16 was very simple. Let’s measure where we’re at. And so the 16% sociologists say that if you can get 16% of an audience acting a certain way, behaving a certain way, it will become normative for everyone else. I like to say, if you’re in a room and you start quacking like a duck to talk, if you can get 16% of the people in the audience quacking like a duck, then everybody’s going to communicate by quacking like a duck.Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — And so it just became a conviction. Let’s move the needle from less than 5% to 16%. And then the language we would use is, at 16%, healthy church reproduction would become such a normative thing that we would see multiplication happening.Todd Wilson — Now, the little bit of an elephant in the room before we move on, church planting is just the outcome. So that 5% number, it’s an outcome of the system and what’s happening.Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — The more ornery number is that the national studies that we did on what percentage of U.S. churches have a disciple-making culture. That’s also less than 5%.Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — So 95% of churches don’t have a functional mission of disciple-making, and that’s their normative growth engine through disciple-making. So in reality, we have a disciple-making problem, not a church-planting problem. And so those two became very tied together, as as will become evident as we have this interview.Rich Birch — Yeah, absolutely. and And just can you define generational reproduction for folks that are listening in? When you when you when you say that, like, hey, we’re trying to move churches towards generational reproduction, kind of just unpack that a little bit more.Todd Wilson — Yeah, let’s let’s start at the personal level of disciple-making. If one person makes a disciple of another person, you’ve got one generation. If that person goes on to make another disciple two generations, that person makes a disciple three generations. We see that biblically. We see that in the leadership pipeline with Paul, that you know we need to see disciples who make disciples who make disciples.Todd Wilson — Once you get to the third or fourth generation of something reproducing itself, if you drew that on paper, one becomes two, two becomes four, four becomes eight, eight becomes 16. That is an exponential or a multiplication curve. So all you have to do to go from addition to multiplication is have healthy reproduction broad and wide multiple generations into the future.Todd Wilson — Now we just take that to the church level, a church that plants a church that plants a church that plants a church broad and wide.Todd Wilson — Now you’ve gone from one church to 16 churches. And now look at the collective attendance of those 16 churches. That’s what you call healthy growth. That’s what you call multiplication when you keep reproducing it over and over.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. And there’s actually been progress against this. This is one of the things that I’ve loved as a person just sitting on the outside looking in as you and the team, you know, Dave and the broader Exponential community have really been hammering away at this. You know, we’re not at 16% yet, but we’re seeing progress, which is which is amazing.Todd Wilson — Right. It’s in the studies that we did, and it’s been repeated a couple of times, the needle has moved to at least 7%. That may not sound like a lot, but if you go take the number of churches we’re talking about…Rich Birch — Yes.Todd Wilson — …and that needle moving from less than 5% to 7%. And we’re not taking credit for all that at Exponential. Rich Birch — Right. Todd Wilson — We’re getting to ride a wave that really started around 2000. Prior to 2000, denominations planted churches, not really churches or networks. We saw the birth of networks around 2000 in the U.S. It’s hard for people to realize, but like in the church planting world, groups like City to City and GlocalNet and Acts 29 and ARC and Church Multiplication Network and Stadia and New Thing Network, none of them existed.Rich Birch — Right. Right.Todd Wilson — Literally in a five-year time period, we saw the birth of all these church planting networks, and that happened to coincide with that we saw that need to start Exponential to serve those networks.Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — So We we were a little bit the right group at the right place, advocating for the right thing.Todd Wilson — And I do think that generally the the wonderful thing is that as that needle is starting to move and the visibility is getting more and more, the next generation wants it. Rich Birch — Yes. Yeah, I would agree.Todd Wilson — They want the scorecard of that. So I feel very optimistic that we’re still a ways away from 16%, but the needle is moving in the right direction.Rich Birch — Yeah, I would echo that too. I think there is, um you know, one of the couple years ago, I had one of those ages in my life flip over with zero on the end that you kind of notice and you reflect back on life a little bit. And I would say one of the things I’ve noticed over, you know, almost 30 years of ministry is this issue is has become more normative. Like it’s it’s a part of the conversation. It’s not that everyone’s doing it, but it’s in the dialogue, which I think is is wonderful.Rich Birch — Well, I, so you know, there’s, you interact with a lot of church leaders across the country. You interact with a lot of people, you have a pulse on a lot of, you know, what’s going on. And there’s a growing sense, you have flagged that there’s a growing sense among leaders that there’s just something wrong. It’s like, you know, there’s like a stink in the bottom of our, our, garbage that’s like, oh it’s a little bit stinky. It’s not like overwhelming, but we can’t put our finger on exactly what that is. Rich Birch — They can’t necessarily name it, but we feel it. We kind of see that there’s maybe something in the way we’re doing what we’re doing that isn’t working. What are you hearing as you sit across the table from church leaders in across the country, you know, around all of these things that we’re talking about?Todd Wilson — Let me describe it a couple of different ways. I think the the word I would put on it is an angst. I think if you look at the definition of an angst, there’s a there’s a growing and an underlying angst. um I’m going to say, if I’m descriptive of the angst, that might not be the way people would exactly say it but it’s how I translate what I’m hearing.Todd Wilson — We are working a lot harder to reach less people and we don’t like the cultural Christian product we’re getting. We’re working a lot harder. We’re spending more money to reach fewer people. And we’re just having this angst that the product we’re producing is a little bit too much consumer cultural Christian as we’re working harder and spending more money. And that leaves somebody full time, know, if I mean, if you’re a full time vocational pastor, there’s an angst that sits in the middle of that dynamic going on. Todd Wilson — My mentor and friend, Robert Lewis, who led Fellowship Bible Church in Little Rock for years, Robert’s handed off the leadership back in 2005. Robert describes it this way. He did the foreword on my recent book, and when he read and reviewed the book, he said, Todd, oh my goodness, this is first and foremost a walk down history lane. It’s like going back and looking at history. Todd Wilson — But he said, here’s the thing. I had this angst in 2005. Everything was up and to the right. We were growing. We were doing new campuses. We had started a church planting. Like we’re doing all of the stuff. People are turning to us. They’re looking at what we’re doing. We had started a leadership conference. And I just had this angst that something wasn’t right.Todd Wilson — And he said, I couldn’t name it. He said, I needed a therapist. But where does a megachurch pastor who’s having nothing but success with up and to the right, who’s feeling angst about the system, where do you go for therapy in that? He’s like, I didn’t know whether to feel like I was being ungrateful or what.Todd Wilson — And his words were, as you’ve traced the 75 years of the church growth movement and its evolution into a consumer-driven operating system, you have named my angst. I wish I would have had this book in 2005 to name my angst because half the battle is getting our hands around understanding why we’re feeling the way we do.Rich Birch — Yeah, I was talking to denominational leader within the last year to kind of add a bit more flavor even to that angst, who was saying, and this is a fantastic denomination, you know, Jesus loving, you know, fantastic group of people um and have, you know, very similar what you’re saying, like lots of good things going on.Rich Birch — And this was one of those like, After dinner conversations, you know, long ah a long ways away from a bunch of leaders, we were just chatting on the sideline. And he said, you know, the interesting thing, when you look at our tribe, his movement, he rattled off all their stats. We have a certain number of churches. We have a certain number of pastors. We have a certain number of, you know, baptisms every year. It rattles all that off.Rich Birch — And he said, you know, if you were to look at where we were 20 years ago, the number of churches is the same, the number of, and rattled off all these stats that are the same. Like we’re baptizing the same number of people, the attendance is the same, the the like all these things. He said, the only thing that’s gone up in the last 20 years is we’ve doubled our staff head count. There’s twice as many staff today as there was. And when I read, heard about your book and you talk about this angst, I was like, ooh, that’s exactly what he was describing. He’s like, wait a second. what’s happening here. And him as a denominational leader, he had the same read, hey, there’s something wrong with the way we set this thing up. Rich Birch — So your book, let’s actually dive into a little bit. It starts really at 70 year arc from Donald McGavron from 1955, all the way to today. And so for a leader who’s never really stepped back and thought about the history of like, what, how did we get here? It’s the name of your book. Why does knowing what got us to where we are today, this kind of consumer operating system that you describe, why does, how does understanding that help us as we think about the future?Todd Wilson — It’s a really good question. And I’m not sure, honestly, that I when I, when I set out to write this book, that, that that was even driving me to begin with, but very quickly that became the, I realized that’s why I need to write this book.Todd Wilson — So let, let me explain. And I need to give you a little bit of background to explain, because it’s an important question.Rich Birch — Yep, yep, for sure.Todd Wilson — So when I think about the moment that, that I realized we had a problem. Like that that, okay, we’re on this trajectory, things are moving the right direction to the 16%, and I’m back in the leadership of Exponential now. And I’m realizing, oh my goodness, we really do have a problem. And here’s here was what that looked like. Todd Wilson — I believed we had started learning communities and we had very vibrant learning communities And our learning communities got started because we felt like we need to shift the paradigm of people’s measure of success in the scorecard of church. It was very much about we need to shift paradigm. Alan Hirsch was involved with this on how do we shift from just growing large things to growing decentralized things that saturate. And it was very much about scorecard.Todd Wilson — And if you think about it, we’re wanting to move the needle from 5% to 16%. That’s a scorecard thing. So our initiating event was scorecard. But as we got into these learning communities, which in my opinion were the best things we were doing at Exponential. I mean, they were six to eight month learning journeys and we would rock people’s paradigm.Todd Wilson — We really would. People would go through it and be like, Oh my goodness, I got to have a different view of success in the church.Rich Birch — Right. yeahTodd Wilson — And guess what? They’d go home and Sunday’s coming. Rich Birch — Right. Todd Wilson — There’s, services to run, there’s people to pastor, there’s things to do. And the aha moment for me came, Rich, when I realized the the whole definition of insanity, that if you just keep doing the same thing over and over and hope for a different outcome, but that’s insanity. And here I am trying to lead a national organization to see a change in scorecard to move the needle to 16%.Todd Wilson — And I remember the day that I realized we’re not going to get there with the operating system we have in place in church right now. This operating system is not capable of getting us to the 16% number.Todd Wilson — That was a personal crisis. I’m leading an organization that’s up and to the right that the needle is moving. But as a futurist, I’m realizing we’re not going to get where we need to be with the operating system in the church. So the the operating system part was what drove me to start writing this book. I’ll let you ask a question there, and then we’ll circle back to the how does it relate to understanding how we got here, though.Rich Birch — Yeah, so ah just to underline what you’re saying there, um you know in in other conversations, I’ve heard leaders say, you know it’s like, um you know what you know what you reach people with is what you end up keeping them with. And so if what I hear you saying, just putting, I think, other language around it, but correct me, is kind of a consumer-oriented or a consumer cultural operating system that we’ve we’ve used as a church… Todd Wilson — Right.Rich Birch — …you know, obviously by definition, if you ah use a um consumption-based model, that doesn’t, leave you it’s very difficult to turn around and say, okay, now become a multiplier. You know, we got you here as a consumer. Okay, now how do we make you a multiplier? Is that the core pain?Todd Wilson — It is. And Rich, you’re painting the picture of why looking back to understand how we got here is important. If it’s true, that are ah If it’s true, and I want to suggest people ought to go look at it for themselves, that the underlying operating system that has evolved over the last 75 years, it’s not where it started with Donald McGavern in 1955. And there was never bad intentions by any of the good people through the 70 years.Rich Birch — Yeah, right.Todd Wilson — We have evolved from what was originally one thing. into a consumer model that is way more focused on success is growing big, success is making converts, not necessarily disciples. And we we can diagnose that if there’s a problem today, and I suggest there is a problem today, then how we got here and understanding how over 70 years, what was intended to be one thing, gradually (like the frog getting boiled in cold water) turned into something else.Todd Wilson — We’ve got to go through the the, if we really want to change the operating system, and I’ve seen how hard it is, guys can have the paradigm shift. We need to change. Then they go back home into the operating system that they’re operating in. And it is really, really hard to just throw off one operating system and embrace another oneTodd Wilson — And I wouldn’t even encourage people to do that. Don’t go home and just change your operating system overnight. But if you do want to make thoughtful, progressive change, the best way to do it is to start by going back and learn the lesson of how did we get where we are?Rich Birch — Yeah.Todd Wilson — How did things get off track to where to where we are?Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Todd Wilson — And that’s what ended you know, I started out the book really to go after understanding the operating system itself. And very quickly came to the conclusion, oh, we I’m not sure how we’re going to move to a new operating system if people don’t go through the hard work of looking back and understanding how well-intentioned people over time have delivered for us what we have today in a flawed system.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. You know, I know, again, from my own personal experience, not to bring this back to me, but to my own personal experience, again, it’s been interesting to see similar patterns. You know, every couple years, there’s like some new idea that comes up in the church. And oftentimes I’m like, yeah, this is just like of rehash of a thing I saw 10 years ago or 15 years ago or 20 years ago.Rich Birch — It’s like, oh, this is is brand new. It’s like, ah, it’s echoes of things we’ve seen in the past. So why don’t we just kind of give people a flyover or a walkover of the kind of eras that you kind of define as you went through the book, just to give people a high level. Rich Birch — Ultimately friends, you know, I’m encouraging you to to do two things out of today. One is to pick up, I think this could be a great book for you and your team to go through. You and your leadership team, buy copies of this, read it. I think it could be an interesting book for you or, and go and listen to Todd’s interview with Carey as well. Carey just takes longer in his podcast and has more time. So there’s going to be, there’s lots packed into that as well. Rich Birch — But why don’t you kind of give us a flyover of the eras? And then maybe when you think about each one of those, something that was like, really positive that came from that area something like hey there’s something good there or maybe there’s something there that we’ve got to be cautious about as we think about the future.Todd Wilson — Yeah. And just to be clear, Rich, you know this, ah I’m a local church guy. My calling is a local church. I’m still on staff at a local church. I love the local church. So this part of the, difficulty for me in spending two years and over a hundred hours of interviews and putting this timeline of history together is I love the church.Todd Wilson — And I I, don’t know that I’d be sitting here talking to you if it weren’t for several of these eras I’m getting ready to name to you. So you’ve got really, I think a common thread through across these areas as we jump into them is typically apostolic, evangelistically driven leaders who really want to reach people. Hell is real. Lost people are going there. We got to reach them. And I think that’s the driving factor across all these eras is well-intentioned people…Todd Wilson — And if I can start with the end point, I think we’ve sort of co-opted the more holistic disciple-making growth engine that’s capable of generational disciple-making with strategies for institutional programmatic growth that are not capable of reproduction. They’re very good at growing large things and reaching lots of people, but not necessarily making, you know, through relational disciple making, disciples who make disciples who plant churches that plant churches.Todd Wilson — So here’s how I would do the flyover. When I got started writing this history, I thought I was doing one chapter of this history in another book. Rich Birch — I love it.Todd Wilson — And one chapter turned into two chapters and three chapters. And eventually my editor said, Todd, you just need to do a full book.Rich Birch — Well, that’s a book.Todd Wilson — And it ends up turning into the longest book I’ve written because of the 75 year history. And ah Rich, seriously, don’t, people don’t need to feel bad if they don’t know all the history. I, I’m like a where’s Waldo through a lot of this history. I’ve had a seat at the table for a lot of the stuff through these eras.Todd Wilson — Until writing this book, I did not know how all the dots connected across these eras. And then it became there were so many, oh, oh, oh. So here’s here’s the shot I’ll give to you. Ididn’t really I knew I had heard of Donald McGavern. I knew he was considered the father of the modern church growth movement. I’ve never, prior to writing this book, read about him, gone off and studied him. Gary McIntosh is his by is Donald McGavern’s biographer. So I spent a lot of time with Gary. He pointed me in the right directions.Todd Wilson — And here’s what I learned. Donald McGavern, born in the late 1800s, international missionary in India. um His father and mother were missionaries in India. He came from the mission field and his context was the international mission field. Todd Wilson — Now, get this as the starting point in 1955. He’s an international missionary. He has planted 15 churches himself in his career, none of which ever grew to more than 100 people. So you got to let that sink in. The father of the modern church growth movement planted 15 churches, none of which grew to more than 100. And yet he’s the father of what we consider now the modern church growth movement.Rich Birch — Right. Interesting.Todd Wilson — So the kind the context was, he became fascinated after reading a research report on why some churches in provinces in India were growing and others weren’t. Sometimes churches in the same village that were growing and just down the street, others weren’t.Todd Wilson — So he kind of took a scientific approach, the study of church growth. Like let’s study this like it’s a science, like what’s causing some churches to grow. And he he had very clear conclusions out of that, but you know, a handful of conclusions of what’s causing that.Todd Wilson — And so ultimately, when he came off the mission field by 1960, 61, he started the Church Growth Institute, not for U.S. pastors, but for international missionaries who were on furlough to come home and learn about church growth principles that they could take back to the international mission field. He had no interest in U.S. pastors. Todd Wilson — So for multiple years in the 60s, he was doing that. And when Fuller wanted to start their International School of World Missions, one of their best faculty member ratings was Donald McGavern. So they invited him to come become the founding dean of the the Fuller School of World Missions.Todd Wilson — But he only agreed to do it if he could bring the Church Growth Institute with him. So by 1970, you’ve got that up and running. He’s built his team. He invited a guy called C. Peter Wagner off the mission field to come be on his faculty staff. And in 1970, 71, Peter Wagner convinced Donald McGavern that they ought to run one class for U.S. pastors on church growth.Todd Wilson — And the rest is history. That one class, it just turned into, Imean, people were very interested in it. Denominations became interested. And literally within a couple of years, you’ve got this up and to the right people latching on to church growth science.Todd Wilson — And that starts the process, you know. Even from the beginning, you start to see a little bit of co-opting away from McGavern’s things. Not fast, but a little bit. Todd Wilson — So right on the heels of that, in the 70s then, you’ve got this young kid, ah Bill Hybels… Rich Birch — Right. Todd Wilson — …who’s running you know going to go into business and he’s running a street ministry with youth. He’s being mentored by Robert Shuler.Rich Birch — Yes.Todd Wilson — And Shuler’s got the possibility thinking, think outside the box, very apostolic. Turns out Shuler not only mentors Hybels, but there’s some mentoring of Rick Warren. And so you’ve got the birth of the seeker-sensitive era then.Todd Wilson — You know, if the first era was the McGavern-Roots era, now we’ve got the seeker-sensitive era. And, you know, that can be a positive or a negative stigma. For me, in 1976, I’m in middle school going into high school, not a Christian, live down the street from this movie theater called the Willow Creek Movie Theater. Rich Birch — Right. Right.Todd Wilson — And my mom drags us kicking and screaming into the Willow Creek Movie Theater. We were the avatar family for the Seeker Sensitive family movement.Rich Birch — Right. Movement.Todd Wilson — From Seeker Sensitive, you get out of that the what Peter Drucker and Bob Buford would call the large church phenomena and the birth of Leadership Network then with the large church phenomena, which became the megachurch phenomena.Todd Wilson — You’ve got Rick Warren and his masterful work with the purpose-driven church. Rick’s able to put handles on this church growth part, but Rick was a disciple of Donald McGavern, so he’s got the McGavern roots. Todd Wilson — You’ve got Hybels with the Shuler roots. And in that 80 into the 90s with the birth of the Global Leadership Summit and the other, you’ve you’ve got this very influential large church phenomena, purpose-driven, being shaped by, you know, in large part, the combination of Leadership Network, Hybels, Rick Warren… And that brings us up to you know about 2000. Todd Wilson — And just as a flyover, I would then call the era of the externally focused church. You’ve got the rapid fire birth of church planting networks. You’ve got multi-site. People don’t realize prior to 2000, there’s less than 50 multi-site churches.Rich Birch — Yeah.Todd Wilson — Leadership Network engages it in 2000. And from 2000 to 2010 you see an up, I mean, radically up and to the right.Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — The externally focused church, same thing. Rick Russo has book right in that time period. The missional guys, right in that time period. So the common theme between these church planning networks, the missional guys, the externally focused guys, the multi-site, is we’re now looking outside of ourselves.Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — But in large part, we’re still looking outside of ourselves as growth strategies for our things. If you really go look under the hood of a lot of those.Todd Wilson — And then I would say coming out of the externally or outwardly focused era, 2015 to 2025, I just have no other name than the disruption era. As I was doing the research on this book, um I had to stop at like 12 major disruptions that happened in that time period with COVID right in the middle. Rich Birch — Right. Todd Wilson — And so that’s the…Rich Birch — Political upheaval. There’s a bunch in there in that same, you know, yeah, that there’s been a schism.Todd Wilson — You’ve got deconstruction of faith.Rich Birch — Yep.Todd Wilson — You’ve got cynicism. You’ve got platformed individualism with the birth of social media. Now anybody can be their own, you know, playlist influencer. There’s just so many disruptive factors in there.Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — Now you look at all those disruptive factors with the evolution of what’s happening in the church and the church operating system. And it leaves us on a very shaky foundation at that point that, you know It kind of brings us up to where we are now, and you can either be a pessimist at that or an optimist. And I choose the optimist path that we’re poised for a new day and a new operating system is my prayer.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s amazing. And friends, as you can see, you just got a real thin slice of, you know, just all the various phases that you do such a great job unpacking for us to help us really understand how we we got here. It was It was wild, it’s wild thinking about a lot of that because I remember, you know, various phases of those over the last particularly 25 years, you know, seeing that up close and seeing, you know, kind of the impact that has had and then wondering about the future and where we go from here. Rich Birch — So thinking about the future and, you know, obviously you’ve, um you know, you’ve you’re making a clear clarion call around, hey, we’ve got to think differently than the consumer driven operating system. We’ve got to we’ve got to come up with something different. After all of that, um and we’ve kind of covered this already, but I’d love to make sure we kind of hone on this, have this resonate with people that are listening in. Why is it so difficult for that system, for the consumer-driven operating system to to really ultimately produce healthy reproduction and multiplication and in churches? What’s structurally ah broken about it? And what what would be some first steps we should be thinking about change to the future as we think about, okay, where we go from here? Todd Wilson — Yeah.Rich Birch — How do we, you know, build on the positive stuff, but also look for something different as we look to the future? Todd Wilson — Yeah. I think we don’t have to make it complex, Rich, if we just keep trying to come back to simplicity for a minute. Like the system that has evolved has actually become pretty complex when you think about it. I would say if we could just focus on, I’m not even going to say changing overnight, but if if I’m a lead pastor, if I’m on staff at a church, I’m really focused on disciple-making as the core mission and growth engine of the church. Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — Like what is it, most churches are going to say our mission is disciple making or it’s going to be part of it. They’re going to say we have a culture of disciple making, but it is not what the data shows. Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — You know, again, 95% of churches do not have a culture of disciple-making. They have a culture of program activity. Rich Birch — Right. Todd Wilson — And so I’m not an advocate of changing everything overnight, but if you want to shift from a culture of program activity to a true culture of disciple-making‚ it has to start with the lead minister having a simple, reproducible, in-practice disciple-making approach that is being modeled for the… I don’t mean discipling the staff. I mean there’s people the lead pastor are personally discipling, modeling that simple, reproducible process. Todd Wilson — Where we’re starting to see traction and where I think the breakthroughs are going to come in getting us to the new operating system of the future, it is going to start, and it’s it’s happening right now, with pastors who say, you know, if I’m really honest, I’ve been preaching the last 52 weeks. I’ve been leading meetings. I’ve been doing, I’ve been doing, I’ve done, but I’m not really personally making disciples. Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — And I think it’s going to start with the lead pastor, the elders, senior people saying, If we could only have one metric of success in the next 12 months, it’s not growth, it’s not the activities we do, it’s not the new building. If we only have one measure of success, it’s how many disciples have I personally, relationally been involved in? me Not how many have I preached to, not how many outreach events have we done where we’ve got, but what have I personally done on the disciple-making front?Todd Wilson — And I don’t want to make it more complicated than that. That’s what we’re missing right now.Rich Birch — That’s good. No, that’s really good. Yeah, that’s good. I love the practical takeaway of, um yeah, it’s like, who are the three people in your life that you’re actually discipling? Let’s start there. Rich Birch — So this is kind of a sidebar to it.Todd Wilson — Can I just look real quick?Rich Birch — Yes. Yep. Push back. Yep.Todd Wilson — So David Putman, who’s part of what we do at Multipliers, David’s longtime kingdom guy.Rich Birch — Yep.Todd Wilson — You should have him on as an interview here. David is completely focused on what he calls the 5-3-2 right now. Five simple reproducible principles, three rhythms, and and two relationships. So it’s a triad of three people that just keeps reproducing.Todd Wilson — Anybody can do it. A ninth grader can do it. A lead pastor can do it. I’m watching this model take different groups by storm right now. And whether you embrace the 5-3-2 or some other model like it, the key is going to be having a simple, reproducible process that works for the lead pastor and anyone else in the church. Same model.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Yeah we had David on back in 2020 and I’m like we got to get him back on uh the podcast. Rich Birch — So sidebar issue, so this is not something we’d you know kicked around ahead of time but it’s kind of adjacent to this. So I am not a I'm not a teaching pastor. Similar to you. I’m not, i never saw myself as a lead pastor. I’ve always been in the like, Hey, my job’s to be in the second chair, cheering for other lead pastors. I’ve worked for um really over my career as an XP three incredible communicator lead pastors who it would appear like, and it is, they, all three of them, God gifted them with this ability to speak and gather crowds. Like that was like core. And, and I, I’ve spent a lot of time like listening to them and watching them. And part of it just appears to be like, it’s definitely a gifting that’s going on there.Rich Birch — And I, over time, ah questions like the following would come up that I would I'd struggle with, where it’s like, it would appear like this person can gather a lot of people, and we can build more chairs in front of that person and people will hear that person and they’ll they’ll take steps towards Jesus. Rich Birch — And I understand that that’s not, or that’s not a full picture of discipleship. That’s one piece of the discipleship puzzle, but it’s not… And the the kind of organizational pressure is, okay, let’s keep figuring out how to build more seats in front of this person and and their gift. How do we get them to leverage their gift well? Rich Birch — And to be honest, I’ve been in conversations where I’ve been the voice of like, I want to line 100,000 people up in front of this person to hear this person speak because I think the way they talk about Jesus is different than what I’ve heard other people say and it it’ll make a difference. Rich Birch — That is, I think, at the center of this tension that there’s some there seems to be something about the gift of teaching that it’s not, I don’t know whether it’s not evenly distributed, or there’s like a brokenness in humanity and we only want to listen to certain kinds of people. I don’t know whether it’s one of those two things. So all I’ve done is describe a problem and I’m going to say, comment on it, Todd.Todd Wilson — Yeah. I think you’re right on the mark. I think I want to affirm that, you know, I mean, everybody has their definitions. I believe the preaching role is, and and the teaching and reaching is a piece of the discipleship equation.Rich Birch — Yep.Todd Wilson — I think if I’m defining the problem statement, We have made it the biggest piece… Rich Birch — Sure. Todd Wilson — …instead of a piece or a playing a role in it. So I think the issue is that how big we’ve made it. Like you, I was an executive pastor for years. And when I look back on that time, my role was not about holistic relational disciple making that could be the growth engine of the church. and it It was how do we get as many people in seats in the auditorium on Sunday? We need great marketing. We need great outreach.Todd Wilson — And again, I think all of those play a role in the disciple-making process ultimately. But let’s just be honest, that’s not disciple-making itself. It plays a role in the disciple-making process.Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — So the elephant in the room here is, how do we scale disciple-making? If I if I could be If I could be the czar of this, I’m not, but if I could be, I want the genius at the end. I want the unique gifts that are represented across the whole mosaic and the church, starting with that dynamic creature that can attract the crowd. I want it. Todd Wilson — But I also want those senior leaders of the organization I really want to be focused on what is our growth engine and what is our holistic disciple-making process. Rich Birch — Right.Todd Wilson — And the number one thing I want from those senior leaders is not their unique gift. I want their modeling, their personal modeling of the simple, reproducible, disciple-making growth engine that anybody in the church can do. Rich Birch — That’s good.Todd Wilson — I mean, that that preaching gift you’re talking about, that that one lead pastor can do, how many other people in the church can do that?Rich Birch — Right. Not many. Yep.Todd Wilson — So there’s their paradigm. So we need them doing it.Rich Birch — Yes.Todd Wilson — But I would argue what we need them doing even more than that inspiration is modeling the simple reproducible disciple making thing that people know that’s how we’re going to win here.Rich Birch — Yeah. Well, and I’ve that lines up, I’ve said it at probably, well, not a thousand times, but hundreds of times with lead pastors over the years that in the context of this conversation, I would rather them weave in the discussion about their discipleship relationships as like just a normative part of conversation rather than the, we’re doing six weeks on discipleship and how to become disciple making. I’m like, if you just pepper that stuff in week in, week out, it just is a normative part of the conversation that changes culture. Rich Birch — The kind of like, we’re going to make it a program. We’re going to brand it. We’ve got a great name on it. And my experience has been, it’s it’s a little bit like nailing jello to the wall. There’s there’s actually some of that containing of what we’re talking about actually kills the exact thing that we’re trying to do. And so, man, I think there’s a real tension there. And how do we help those people? Rich Birch — Because it’s not like we want them to do a worse job. It’s not like, hey, if you could stop talking in a way that attracts a crowd, that’s not the answer. But we’ve got to, like you say, how do we move them into those personal relationships? That’s fantastic.Rich Birch — Well, this has been a great conversation…Todd Wilson — My question would be, Rich, what what would happen…Rich Birch — Yep.Todd Wilson — …if an average lead pastor went on a one-year journey to to of disciple-making themselves? Call it a triad, call it four, five. They’re always, over the next year, going to be in a disciple-making small micro group… Rich Birch — Yep. Todd Wilson — …and all of their preaching is going to be informed.Rich Birch — Yep.Todd Wilson — That’s their laboratory of learning.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s their paradigm. Yeah, that’s good.Todd Wilson — That’s their paradigm. And now they’re bringing it to life, not just as periodic examples, but, you know, my whole frame of reference of my library is what comes out of that experience. Rich Birch — Yeah.Todd Wilson — And our problem right now is that’s just lack. It isn’t that it’s inserted a little bit. It’s just lacking.Rich Birch — Right. Yeah, that’s good. Yeah, this has been great. what ah What a great conversation. And as you can tell, friends, there’s a lot we could talk about there. And a lot you know just there’s a rich conversation that could be had around this. Rich Birch — Let’s let’s pivot and kind of talk a little bit about the book specifically. i want to make sure people pick up copies of this. Again, the name of it is How Did We Get Here? Looking Back to Look Forward. People can get this on Amazon. Are there other places that you would send people if they want to pick up copies of this?Todd Wilson — Yeah. So if they go to church-growth.org, church-growth.org, that’s the book’s homepage. You can actually get the free PDF there. You can get the free audio version there. There’s a full wiki there that people can contribute to. What you kind of mentioned it in passing, but I’ll highlight, it is impossible to read this book and not see yourself in it. Rich Birch — Yes. Yeah.Todd Wilson — Anyone who’s been a Christian for a while, they, the editor of the book said the power of this is going to be, she said, I can tell you the page in the book that I entered the story. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s great. Todd Wilson — So you’ve got the free PDF, the free audio, the wiki, and then for people that just want the paper versions, you can get it on Amazon.Rich Birch — That’s great. And we’ll link to that friends so that you can, you know, find that quickly in the show notes and, and friends, I would encourage you again, to me, I think this could be a great resource to do with your leadership team, as I mentioned earlier. It would be a great kind of conversation starter and really context setter for us to think through these issues as we think about the future. Rich Birch — So kind of as we, as we come to close up today’s conversation, any final words as we wrap up today?Todd Wilson — Rich, I just appreciate the work you’re doing. I want to be an encouragement to pastors. Don’t let this book be, it’s not a deconstruction book. It’s not, oh my goodness, the church has fallen apart.Rich Birch — No, yeah.Todd Wilson — We need to keep plugging away doing what we’re doing, but we also have to have an eye on the future that this operating system that has evolved, everything has a beginning and an end. And this operating system, I believe, is in its final days. I think we’re we’re seeing you know less and less effectiveness with it. And I think we just need to be in a posture of giving permission to the next generations to do some trial and error and experimentation and not be locked into the paradigm of the of the past inheriting previous things.Rich Birch — No, fantastic, Todd. I appreciate you being here. And I would echo that, you know, you’re you’re the kind of leader that’s in our corner trying to help us get better. And so I appreciate the voice that you’ve had for for decades. And so I really appreciate that. Rich Birch — If people want to track with you, get connected, follow along with Multipliers where do we want to send them online?Todd Wilson — Multipliers.org can get me to all the different ways from email to phone to social media. So multipliers.org.Rich Birch — That’s great. Thanks so much, Todd. Appreciate you being here, sir.Todd Wilson — Thank you, Rich. Appreciate it.

"Mr. World and Miss Church-Member" is a poignant allegory that follows the misguided journey of Miss Church-Member, who believes she is on a convenient path to heaven. Unbeknownst to her, she is accompanied by the deceptive Mr. World, leading her down the Broad Highway to destruction. This timeless narrative explores themes of faith, deception, and the peril of complacency in one's spiritual journey. Its enduring relevance lies in the cautionary tale it presents about the dangers of superficial beliefs and the importance of discernment in a world full of distractions. Listening to this allegory today serves as a reminder to critically examine the paths we choose in our pursuit of truth and fulfillment.

"Life in a Thousand Worlds" by William Shuler Harris invites listeners on a whimsical adventure reminiscent of "Gulliver's Travels," exploring the cosmos and beyond through a lens of humor and imagination. As the narrative unfolds, it delves into diverse alien philosophies, prompting reflections on moral and social dilemmas we face on Earth. This engaging romp not only entertains but also encourages listeners to ponder the application of these otherworldly insights to our own lives. With its blend of fantasy and thought-provoking themes, this audiobook remains relevant today, reminding us of the importance of curiosity and understanding in navigating our complex world.

"Life in a Thousand Worlds" by William Shuler Harris invites listeners on a whimsical adventure reminiscent of "Gulliver's Travels," exploring the cosmos and beyond through a lens of humor and imagination. As the narrative unfolds, it delves into diverse alien philosophies, prompting reflections on moral and social dilemmas we face on Earth. This engaging romp not only entertains but also encourages listeners to ponder the application of these otherworldly insights to our own lives. With its blend of fantasy and thought-provoking themes, this audiobook remains relevant today, reminding us of the importance of curiosity and understanding in navigating our complex world.

Stadium & Gale is back, and we've got a loaded show for you tonight!We look ahead to SEC Media Day on Wednesday and what it means for the Gators — the storylines, the expectations, and the questions we most want answered as the college football season draws closer.Then we're honored to be joined by former Florida Gator Adam Shuler. We get into his time in the Swamp, his perspective on the current state of the program, and plenty more in a conversation you won't want to miss.Grab a seat, settle in, and let's talk some Gators football.

"Life in a Thousand Worlds" by William Shuler Harris invites listeners on a whimsical journey reminiscent of "Gulliver's Travels," exploring the vastness of our solar system and beyond through the lens of a C. S. Lewis enthusiast. This delightful romp not only entertains but also delves into thought-provoking themes of alien philosophies and their application to moral and social dilemmas we face on Earth. As we navigate an increasingly complex world, the book's reflections on ethics and societal challenges remain relevant today, encouraging listeners to ponder how diverse perspectives can enrich our understanding of humanity.

Send Kevin a Text MessageLauren Shuler Donner, one of Hollywood's most influential and adaptable producers, joins host Kevin Goetz for a wide-ranging career retrospective. Over nearly five decades, Shuler Donner has produced roughly 40 films that have grossed more than $5 billion worldwide — including Mr. Mom, St. Elmo's Fire, Pretty in Pink, Dave, Free Willy, and the X-Men franchise she helped build years before Marvel became Marvel. She talks with Goetz about breaking into a male-dominated industry, her 38-year love story and creative partnership with director Richard Donner, her philanthropic work with the Motion Picture & Television Fund, and her latest chapter producing the Broadway musical adaptation of The Lost Boys.Breaking Into a Male-Dominated Industry (06:10): Shuler Donner recalls knocking on doors with no connections, becoming one of only three women among 300 men in NBC's camera department, and working her way into producing.Discovering John Hughes and Making Mr. Mom (12:29): Shuler Donner recalls cold-calling John Hughes, championing his unproduced script Mr. Mom, and casting an unknown Michael Keaton after seeing him in Night Shift.Falling for Dick Donner on the Set of Ladyhawke (16:43): Shuler Donner describes pursuing Richard Donner to direct Ladyhawke, working with him as a producer, and falling in love with him during the Italian shoot.Radio Flyer, Free Willy, and the Power of Testing (24:53): Shuler Donner discusses Radio Flyer's heartbreaking low box office despite strong scores, and how a fan's $10 donation "for the whales" inspired Free Willy's end-credit hotline.The Midwest Gut Check and the Search for Real Villains (28:01): Shuler Donner explains testing projects against whether "a kid from Cleveland" would pay to see them, and demanding villains like Magneto have real, human motivations.Finding Hugh Jackman (30:40): Shuler Donner recounts spotting Hugh Jackman in a self-taped Oklahoma! audition, flying him to LA, and sending him to read for Bryan Singer in Toronto sight unseen.Getting X-Men Made (34:07): After Warner Bros. passed, Shuler Donner pitched X-Men to Fox's Bill Mechanic, who, unbeknownst to her, had sold his own comic collection to pay for college.The Lost Boys on Broadway (37:02): Shuler Donner talks about bringing The Lost Boys, and eventually Dave, to the Broadway stage.Testing Pretty in Pink's Ending (43:53): Shuler Donner explains how test audiences rejected the original ending of Pretty in Pink, leading to a reshoot that paired Molly Ringwald with Andrew McCarthy instead of Jon Cryer.Host: Kevin GoetzGuest: Lauren Shuler DonnerProducer: Kari CampanoWriters: Kevin Goetz, Darlene Hayman, Nick Nunez, and Kari CampanoAudio Engineer: Gary Forbes (DG Entertainment)For more information about Lauren Shuler Donner:IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0795682/Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Shuler_DonnerFor more information about Kevin Goetz:- Website: www.KevinGoetz360.com- Audienceology Book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Audience-ology/Kevin-Goetz/9781982186678- How to Score in Hollywood: https://www.amazon.com/How-Score-Hollywood-Secrets-Business/dp/198218986X/- Facebook, X, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Substack: @KevinGoetz360- LinkedIn @Kevin Goetz- Screen Engine/ASI Website: www.ScreenEngineASI.com

Dontavious Shuler is an Emmy-winning Director of Photography known for his exceptional work in TV. Dontavious Shuler's journey into filmmaking began during a deeply challenging period marked by personal loss, isolation, and financial struggle. Through faith, journaling, and community support, he transformed those experiences into his film Echoes, which explores the impact of unresolved trauma. In this episode, Dontavious shares how he built his production company from the ground up, the importance of social responsibility in film, and how creators can turn their life experiences into meaningful content.   Resources & Mentions

In this week's sermon, the Rev'd Jon Shuler reflects on 1 Peter 2:13-25.

A lot of multifamily operators made money during the easy years. Mark Shuler says today's market is exposing who can actually operate. In this episode, Mark shares what it really takes to manage over 4,200 apartment units in a difficult market environment. He explains how his vertically integrated company handles management, construction, supply chains, and operations while adapting to flat rents, tenant fraud, and rising pressure across multifamily housing. Mark also talks about how AI is changing the business, why retention matters more than churn right now, and why he believes the next two years may create major acquisition opportunities for experienced operators. Key topics discussed: Going from architecture into apartment investing Building a vertically integrated multifamily company Managing over 4,200 units in Houston Using AI for due diligence and tenant screening Why operations matter more than ever Challenges with tenant fraud and concessions Distressed multifamily opportunities ahead Why experienced operators may benefit in the next cycle Guest Information: Mark Shuler SGRE Investments Website: sgrinvestments.com Call To Action: Visit sgrinvestments.com to connect with Mark Shuler and learn more about multifamily investing and operations.

In 1987, a young Hungarian immigrant was found brutally murdered at her apartment complex's laundry room. Persons of interest surfaced but no real suspects emerged. It took 38 years until a volunteer came across information that could finally bring justice to her killer.

Swinney and Brown-Shuler 05-26 by Phil Kornblut, Chris Burgin, and Josh Cohen

May 6, 2026 ~ Sarah Shuler, Conservation + Education Manager, Saginaw Children's Zoo joins Paul W. Smith. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode, Justin and Rob have another installment of Haranguing the Herpers w/Gabe Shuler. Who will win? You decide. Reptile Fight Club!Follow Justin Julander @Australian Addiction Reptiles-http://www.australianaddiction.comIG https://www.instagram.com/jgjulander/Follow Rob @ https://www.instagram.com/highplainsherp/Follow MPR Network @FB: https://www.facebook.com/MoreliaPythonRadioIG: https://www.instagram.com/mpr_network/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtrEaKcyN8KvC3pqaiYc0RQSwag store: https://teespring.com/stores/mprnetworkPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/moreliapythonradio

In this episode of the Beauty School Bobbi podcast, Bobbi Powell speaks with Garrett Schuler, chair of the American Association of Career Schools (AACS), about the current legislative challenges facing the beauty industry. They discuss the importance of advocacy, the role of financial aid in supporting beauty students, and the unique career opportunities available in the beauty sector. The conversation highlights the significance of engaging with legislators, sharing personal stories, and the upcoming Hill Day event, which aims to empower beauty professionals to advocate for their industry.   Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Beauty Industry Advocacy 02:48 Current Legislative Challenges in Beauty Education 05:54 The Importance of Financial Aid for Beauty Students 08:57 The Value of Beauty Education and Career Opportunities 11:49 Empowering Women in the Beauty Industry 15:10 The Role of Advocacy in the Beauty Sector 18:00 Upcoming Hill Day and Its Significance 20:58 Engaging with Legislators: A Call to Action 23:53 The Future of Beauty Education and Industry Standards 27:05 Conclusion and Final Thoughts   www.beautyschoolbobbi.com www.beautyandstylenetwork.com www.myaacs.org   Follow Beauty and Style Network: @beautystylenet Beauty School Bobbi: @beautyschoolbobbi AACS: @aacschools   Thank you to our partners: From Chair to Boss: https://education.mireyavillarreal.com/ | @fromchairtoboss Beauty Cast Network: www.beautycastnetwork.com | @beautycastnetwork

One of Cee's major bucket list items is to get out to Europe and experience the rich beer heritage firsthand. In the meantime, the next best thing is to hang out at the satellite brewery for Bavaria's Hofbräuhaus just over the border in Buffalo, New York. During our last visit in December, we connected with Braumeister Scott Shuler for a tour, which of course turned into a podcast. Scott and Cee chatted about their unique 450+ year history, why it's government-owned and Bavarian laws apply to Hofbräu beers anywhere in the world, the arrangement between Munich and the satellite locations to brew their classic beer in very specific ways, the freedom Scott has with other related seasonal beers, why altering the water profile breaches the German Purity Law of 1516, his eclectic beer history from Tampa to Buffalo, the impeccable and authentically German food program at the brewery, and why he'd love a trip out to Bavaria. They got into five crowlers straight from Buffalo: Hofbräu Original Premium Lager, Hofbräu Münchner Weisse, Dunkel, Hofbräu Schwarzbier, and Hofbräu Doppelbock. This was a fascinating convo - cheers! BAOS Podcast Subscribe to the podcast on YouTube | Website | Theme tune: Cee - BrewHeads

Today, my guest is Mark Shuler. Mark Shuler RA is a licensed architect in the states of Washington and Texas with more than 35 years of professional experience as an architect, engineer, business owner and real estate investor as president of SGRE investments, Mark pursues value add opportunities that leverage his professional background and capitalize on his skill sets as an architect and real estate investor, and in just a minute, we're going to speak with Mark Schuler about the reasons why multifamily value add investing make a great investment strategy.    https://www.linkedin.com/in/shulerarchitecture/  

J Darrin Gross So if you're willing, I'd like to ask you. Mark Shuler, what is the BIGGEST RISK? Mark Shuler I have a pat answer for that. The biggest risk to real estate is government. That's what I was alluding to. And beginning of this conversation, the West Coast Seattle is as Uber blue as it gets. You have a lot of well meaning city councils and county councils trying to address significant housing crisis that exists throughout the entire country right now. And they, rather than letting the markets Mark operate efficiently. They get in there and they they throw roadblocks in it, and we can't produce enough housing as a consequence, then we have a supply problem, and they enact rent control and other pieces of legislation that make the operation of real estate even more difficult. I That's why I left Seattle. I can't do it here anymore, specifically because of that. So that's one thing you know. You've got to look at the the risk posed by your local government, and see if that you know, if you can develop hedges against that risk. I when I first got into the business, I could do that in western Washington, but they it just became apparent after a while, there was so much legislation being layered on that the hedges were disappearing left and right, and so I made the choice that I couldn't do it here anymore. I had to find marketplaces that were more fair. And also, I will say this is a political side. I mean most politicians, politicize housing as if it's a fight between corporate interests and you know, you know tenants who don't have any control over their lives. You know, that's the nature of renting. Most operators I know are very hard working people and are doing the best they can in a pretty oppressive regulatory environment. There's no cabal of operators out there colluding and setting rents. And Berkeley just learned a big ass lesson about this where they. They tried to sue. Who was it? You know, that online platform, real page, claiming that real page was setting rent prices in the marketplace, and they were like taking them down real page. Those are, those are some tough guys, and they did not back down from a fight. Sued the shit out of Berkeley. Berkeley tucked tail and back down because they knew they were going to lose and lose big. So this issue is very emotional. It gets very politicized. It plays well on an election cycle, and so I just get tired of it. I just want to do my job. I really want to do my job and not have this white noise distraction that I have to deal with. But unfortunately, that's what that's the biggest risk I see in real estate right now. Then you you layer on top of that, this the politics in general, what I what really concerns me. Now, in addition to that, the other big risk is, this is just our political environment. It's so but, you know, bifurcated, and it's so politicized and the conversations are so extreme, there's no more middle ground, and there are only two or three things that control our entire economy, oil and bonds. And you know, if it seems like every time Trump opens his mouth about tariffs, the bond market Spike 25 basis points, I was in the middle of a refi three weeks ago, and he, he kind of went on his tariff tantrum again, cost me $250,000 that's, that's the impact bond rates have on, you know, the cost of doing business. I was in the middle of refi. I had to do nothing but suck it up and, you know, sign that loan in one day, I lost $250,000 on a refund. So government is a, you know, housing is one of the most nuanced and market driven things I can think of. It responds to supply and demand. The players are in it, who are in it, who are really good their market, they're they're watching this all the time. And contrary to popular belief, the margins in real estate are thin. They're not that great. So if the market swings wildly like that, how do you how do you do business? You can't make you can't plan for 612, 18 months down the road, which is that's the long, the length of time we think about. We're thinking in terms of multiple years cycles. And when you have this volatility in marketplace, how do you make business plans? That is in large part why we have such a housing crisis in this country that and the cost of labor, the cost of materials, has spiked dramatically. It's just more expensive to put up housing. But then you layer on all this government nonsense, this is really hard to build housing, and that's and as a consequence, supply, demand being what it is, price of housing goes up, rents go up. I don't know a developer out there that would not love to build affordable housing, but they can't afford to do so. That's my soapbox.   https://www.linkedin.com/in/shulerarchitecture/  

“Do not wait to be perfect.” That is the message AFL-CIO President Liz Shuler has for the next generation of women leaders as we kick off Women's History Month and Women in Construction Week 2026 on the America's Work Force Union Podcast. In this wide-ranging episode, Shuler joins us to discuss the historic momentum of the labor movement, where public support has reached nearly 70 percent. We explore the 2026 WIC Week theme, "Level Up. Build Strong," and discuss how the union advantage provides a more equitable landscape for women in the trades compared to the broader economy. Shuler also pulls back the curtain on the AFL-CIO's fight for worker-centered AI. As technology reshapes the jobsite, she explains why collective bargaining is the ultimate "guardrail" to ensure human oversight, privacy, and shared productivity gains. In this episode, we cover: The evolution of women's leadership from the shop floor to the executive board. How the labor movement is scaling state-level legislation to protect workers from "algorithmic bosses." Advice for women entering male-dominated industries: Finding your voice and building mentorship networks.

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Kristen Shuler, President of East-West Ministries International, shares how God shaped her calling to take the gospel to the world's least reached people. Raised in a Christian home with a deep commitment to discipleship and missions, Kristen came to faith at a young age and learned early that obedience to God often comes before visible fruit. Those formative experiences, including years of frontline ministry overseas, continue to anchor her leadership today. At East-West, Kristen helps lead a global network focused on multiplying disciples and churches in spiritually dark places where access to the gospel is limited or nonexistent. Rather than relying on outside control, East-West prioritizes local leadership, obedience-based discipleship, and collaboration across ministries, trusting God to grow lasting movements of faith. Kristen speaks honestly about the cost of faithfulness, the patience required when fruit is slow to appear, and the freedom that comes from surrendering outcomes to God. This conversation offers a hopeful vision for wise stewardship, faithful generosity, and finding your place in God's mission. Listen to explore how obedience, prayer, and collaboration shape lasting Kingdom impact. Major Topics Include: Obedience over visible ministry results Multiplication as a core discipleship DNA Reaching unengaged and unreached people groups Local ownership of the missionary task Obedience based versus knowledge based discipleship Finding joy beyond performance driven ministry Collaboration reshaping global missions strategy Prayer as essential spiritual labor Diverse pathways for Great Commission participation QUOTES TO REMEMBER “The ministry is not about seeing fruit. The ministry is about obedience.” “Even if I didn't see the fruit, I could trust that He was at work.” “The Lord uses every step of obedience and every seed that's planted as part of His ultimate plan.” “Discipleship is not just about gaining knowledge, but about being obedient to the Word of God.” “If I tell somebody what to do, that will fail every time. But when God's Word and the Spirit lead, that's where transformation happens.” “The Great Commission is a God-given mandate for every follower of Jesus to find their place in.” “It's not about choosing what feels comfortable, but responding in obedience to what God is asking.” “The people are waiting to hear. They simply need a laborer to come to them.” “Not a single one of us can accomplish the Great Commission on our own.” “That humility we're seeing across missions organizations is something only the Spirit can do.” “We want to learn, grow, and come with open hands to see what the Lord might do through unity.” “If I'm not abiding in Jesus, I have very little to offer anyone else.” “Do we want to be known for our strategies, or do we want to be known for loving Jesus?” “If we're not marked by our love for Jesus, our strategies will be ineffective.” LINKS FROM THE SHOW East-West Ministries International International Missions Board Coalition of the Willing (see our interviews with founding members Jared Nelms and Scott Cheatham) The Treasure Principle (see our interview with author Randy Alcorn) BIBLE REFERENCES FROM THE SHOW Matthew 28:19–20 | Make Disciples of All Nations Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age. Acts 1:8 | Witness to the Ends But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth. Galatians 5:25 | Keeping in Step with the Spirit If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. Matthew 9:37–38 | The Harvest Is Plentiful Then he said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest.” John 15:4–5 | Abide and Bear Fruit Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. John 17:20–23 | Unity That the World May Believe Matthew 6:21 | Treasure and the Heart For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. TAKE A STEP DEEPER On the Finish Line podcast, we are all about stories, seeing how God draws us into generosity over a lifetime.  But sometimes these stories can leave us thinking, “What's that next step look like for me?” That's exactly why we've launched a whole new podcast called Applied Generosity which explores the full landscape of the generous life across 7 different dimensions of generosity.  Applied Generosity helps make sense of the hundreds of stories we've shared on the Finish Line Podcast to help you find that best next step. If you've been inspired by these stories and want to take things to the next level, check out Applied Generosity anywhere you listen to podcasts or at appliedgenerosity.com.

Real estate isn't for the faint of heart. Mark Shuler, architect turned multifamily developer with 4,500 units, doesn't sugarcoat it—this business is a grind. After losing a million bucks on one deal, he pivoted to indoor golf simulators and is building ten locations across Phoenix. We dig into government interference, NIMBYism torpedoing projects, and why passion beats profit as your primary driver. Mark's managing 200 employees through a market downturn by focusing on operations, upgrading C-class properties, and adding afterschool tutoring. If you're in this for the long haul, this one's for you.  

Mark Shuler explains why real estate success isn't about intellect or experience—it's about grit, systems, and relentless execution.In this episode of RealDealChat, Mark Shuler—architect turned multifamily syndicator—breaks down what it really takes to scale in commercial real estate.With over $600M in assets, 5,000+ doors, and 200+ employees, Mark shares how he transitioned from being a hired architect to a general partner in large value-add syndications. We dive into deep C-class renovations, workforce housing ethics, supply-chain control, in-house labor models, and why most operators get crushed when assumptions break.Mark also unpacks the current market cycle, the rise of “extend and pretend”, why distress is accelerating, and what disciplined operators are doing right now to prepare for the next acquisition window. We talk hiring mistakes, lease audits, tenant realities, war stories, and why this business rewards those who can grind through uncertainty.This is a candid, no-fluff conversation for investors who want the truth—not the Instagram version—of multifamily real estate.

“This cycle will separate real operators from everyone else.” In this episode, Mark Shuler delivers an unfiltered breakdown of the multifamily market reset—and why 2026 is shaping up to be a defining year for investor returns. Drawing on more than three decades of operating experience and a portfolio exceeding $300M AUM, Mark walks through how the easy-credit era masked weak operations, why cap rates and valuations have structurally reset, and what happens next as loans mature, DSCRs collapse, and lenders finally force resolution. From bond markets and interest rates to supply gluts, operating cost pressures, and the coming wave of distressed sales, this conversation connects macro forces directly to Main Street deal performance. If you're an investor or entrepreneur trying to understand where risk truly sits—and where opportunity may emerge as weaker operators wash out—this episode is essential listening. 5 Key Takeaways from This EpisodeThe “easy money” era hid bad operators Artificially low interest rates allowed weak underwriting and poor operations to survive, inflating values and compressing cap rates beyond sustainable levels. This is a reset—not a 2008-style collapse Liquidity still exists, but higher interest rates and rising cap rates have permanently changed valuations, forcing deals to reprice to historical norms. Loan maturities are the real pressure point Many deals from 2019–2021 cannot refinance due to lower values and insufficient NOI, making “extend and pretend” no longer viable as 2026 approaches. Operations now matter more than financial engineering Rising expenses, labor challenges, insurance, taxes, and vacancy pressures mean only strong, vertically integrated operators will attract lender confidence. Opportunity favors prepared capital and proven operators As distressed assets hit the market, well-capitalized groups with operational depth will acquire at significantly lower bases before large institutions step in. About Tim MaiTim Mai is a real estate investor, fund manager, mentor, and founder of HERO Mastermind for REI coaches.He has helped many real estate investors and coaches become millionaires. Tim continues to help busy professionals earn income and build wealth through passive investing.He is also a creative marketer and promoter with incredible knowledge and experience, which he freely shares. He has lifted himself from the aftermath of war, achieving technical expertise in computers, followed by investment success in real estate, management skills, and a lofty position among real estate educators and internet marketers.Tim is an industry leader who has acquired and exited well over $50 million worth of real estate and is currently an investor in over 2700 units of multifamily apartments.Connect with TimWebsite: Capital Raising PartyFacebook: Tim Mai | Capital Raising Nation Instagram: @timmaicomTwitter: @timmaiLinkedIn: Tim MaiYouTube: Tim Mai 

Beaver Sports Podcast featuring Scott Rueck, Kennedie Shuler, and Laura BergSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

VFL Heath Shuler joined John Wilkerson and Vince Ferrara to break down Vols football, Vols hoops, Vols recruiting, and the CFP with for our Monday Morning QB segment.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

VFL Heath Shuler joined John Wilkerson and Vince Ferrara to break down Vols football, Vols hoops, Vols recruiting, and the CFP with for our Monday Morning QB segment.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

VFL Heath Shuler joined John Wilkerson and Vince Ferrara to talk about UT prepping for Illinois in the upcoming Music City Bowl and more.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

VFL Heath Shuler joined John Wilkerson and Vince Ferrara to talk about UT prepping for Illinois in the upcoming Music City Bowl and more.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr. Clarence Shuler, President and CEO of Building Lasting Relationships, marriage counselor, speaker, life and relationship coach, diversity consultant, and author of more than 10 books joins Dr. Karen to talk about his new book, “Life-Changing Cross-Cultural Friendships: How You Can Help Heal Racial Divides, One Relationship at a Time.” Dr. Shuler shares some of … The post Dr. Clarence Shuler: How Life-Changing Cross-Cultural Friendships Heal Racial Divides (Episode # 347F) first appeared on TRANSLEADERSHIP, INC®.

In this episode of the Joyful Health Show Aubrey Golbek and I give you a behind-the-scenes look at what God is doing in our lives now personally and professionally, how we started Joyful Health and where God is leading us. Expect candid conversation, lots of laughter, and real talk about faith and health. In This Episode We Discuss: #1 thing all Joyful Health Show episodes have in common (only God!) Burnout and redirection as working moms Where we sense God leading our health journeys through faith for the future Since we discuss AI and its role in our lives now and in the future, we want you to stay rooted in this Scripture: “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5). While new technology can give us information, we want you to continually put your hope and trust in Jesus. He will guide you, counsel you, and give you the wisdom you need to make the right choices for your life, both personally and professionally. Take it from us, He will never disappoint you! We want to THANK YOU for going on this Joyful Health journey with us so far, and pray that God would bless you as we continue to submit to His will, day by day! 00:00 Welcome to the 100th Episode!05:15 Balancing Work and Family12:30 The Joyful Health Journey25:15 Understanding Sinful Nature vs. God's Design25:45 Personal Struggles and Triumphs28:26 Challenges and Motivations31:40 Training Leaders and Spreading Joy35:43 Future Trends in Health and Longevity46:40 Upcoming Projects and Devotionals Click here for the full blog post with more resources. “I really enjoyed this episode”

VFL Heath Shuler joined John Wilkerson and Vince Ferrara to talk the latest in college football after the Vols fall to Vandy.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

VFL Heath Shuler joined John Wilkerson and Vince Ferrara to talk the latest in college football after the Vols fall to Vandy.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

VFL Heath Shuler joined Vince Ferrara and Kevin Simon to talk about the Vols winning in the Swamp for the first time since 2003.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Basketball Preview Show- Beaver Sports Podcast featuring Wayne Tinkle, Matija Samar, Kennedie Shuler, Ally Schimel, and Scott ReuckSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

VFL Heath Shuler joined John Wilkerson and Vince Ferrara to discuss the latest in Vols football.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

VFL Heath Shuler joined John Wilkerson and Vince Ferrara to discuss the latest in Vols football.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

VFL Heath Shuler joined us for our weekly "Monday Morning QB" segment as UT prepares for the Crimson Tide on the 3rd Saturday in October.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

VFL Heath Shuler joined us for our weekly "Monday Morning QB" segment as UT prepares for the Crimson Tide on the 3rd Saturday in October.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mark Shuler is a practicing architect in Seattle Washington, now for more than 40 years. He started investing post 2008 and today is has more the 4,000 units under management. Today Mark is concentrated in Houston. We're talking investment thesis and how it's evolving in the Houston market in particular. To connect with Mark, visit sgreinvestments.com or email him at investor@sgreinvements.com.------------**Real Estate Espresso Podcast:** Spotify: [The Real Estate Espresso Podcast](https://open.spotify.com/show/3GvtwRmTq4r3es8cbw8jW0?si=c75ea506a6694ef1)   iTunes: [The Real Estate Espresso Podcast](https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-real-estate-espresso-podcast/id1340482613)   Website: [www.victorjm.com](http://www.victorjm.com)   LinkedIn: [Victor Menasce](http://www.linkedin.com/in/vmenasce)   YouTube: [The Real Estate Espresso Podcast](http://www.youtube.com/@victorjmenasce6734)   Facebook: [www.facebook.com/realestateespresso](http://www.facebook.com/realestateespresso)   Email: [podcast@victorjm.com](mailto:podcast@victorjm.com)  **Y Street Capital:** Website: [www.ystreetcapital.com](http://www.ystreetcapital.com)   Facebook: [www.facebook.com/YStreetCapital](https://www.facebook.com/YStreetCapital)   Instagram: [@ystreetcapital](http://www.instagram.com/ystreetcapital)  

Christian Body Image: A Biblical Guide to Embracing Your God-Given Body at Every Stage of Life Keywords: Christian body image, Biblical body image study, Christian women body image, faith-based body positivity, Psalm 139:14, postpartum body image Christian, aging gracefully Christian, Christian wellness Introduction: Biblical Body Image for Christian Women Do you ever look in the mirror and feel disappointment, frustration, or even grief over how your body has changed? Whether it's postpartum recovery, the lines and silver hairs of aging, or the cultural pressure to stay youthful and thin, body image struggles are not just for teenagers. This episode of The Holistic Healing Podcast is for Christian women who want to align their view of their bodies with God's Word and experience freedom from comparison and self-criticism. Today's guest, Kasey Shuler, author of Love Beyond Looks: A Five-Week Bible Study on Body Image, shares how to: Anchor your self-worth in God's unchanging truth Navigate postpartum and aging with gratitude instead of shame Help your kids build a Christ-centered body image Identify and replace negative self-talk with Scripture Break free from the thin ideal and media-driven beauty standards If you want to see yourself as fearfully and wonderfully made, this conversation will equip you with biblical truth, practical tools, and a renewed perspective on your body. Episode Highlights: Faith-Based Body Image Tips and Truths [00:31] Why body image is more than a teenage struggle — Kasey shares her postpartum experience and why women at every age need a biblical perspective. [01:26] The God who never changes — Why your worth must be rooted in God's character, not fluctuating body changes. [03:18] The cultural obsession with youth — How beauty ideals affect self-worth and why the church should address them. [04:42] Smile lines as joy lines — Seeing aging as evidence of a life lived in gratitude and grace. [07:06] Postpartum compassion — Learning to honor your body for the miracles it has carried instead of criticizing it. [08:06] Three main influences on body image — Family, peers, and media—and how to replace harmful influences with biblical truth. [10:48] Psalm 139:14 in real life — How to actually live out the truth of being fearfully and wonderfully made. [14:19] Grieving body changes without losing identity — Why lament can be a godly first step toward freedom. [17:38] Rewiring your brain with Scripture — How to capture and replace toxic thoughts consistently. [19:35] Raising kids with a biblical body image — How to avoid appearance-based compliments and teach God's design for the body. [22:23] Talking about food God's way — Focusing on nourishment and energy rather than body size. [24:13] The one habit that can transform your body image — Capturing negative thoughts and replacing them with God's truth. Key Takeaways: Faith-Based Body Positivity for Christian Women God values your heart, not your appearance — (1 Samuel 16:7) Your worth is not defined by looks. Aging is evidence of grace — Lines, wrinkles, and gray hair can be reminders of joy, wisdom, and God's provision. Gratitude changes perspective — Thank God for what your body has done and continues to do. Know your influences — Family, peers, and media shape body image—replace harmful messages with biblical ones. Scripture renews your mind — Verses like Psalm 139:14 and 2 Corinthians 4:16 are powerful tools against body shame. Be intentional with your kids — Focus on character and heart, not appearance, when affirming them. Resources & Links Mentioned Book: Love Beyond Looks: A Five-Week Bible Study on Body Image by Kasey Shuler — Available on Amazon Website & Coaching: joyfulhealth.co — Intuitive health coaching by grace Instagram: @joyfulhealthco Other books by Kasey Shuler: Rest and Rise, Move for Joy, Aligned Frequently Asked Questions: Christian Body Image & Biblical Self-Worth Q: What does the Bible say about body image? The Bible teaches that God looks at the heart rather than outward appearance (1 Samuel 16:7) and that we are fearfully and wonderfully made (Psalm 139:14). Your worth comes from being created in God's image, not from meeting cultural beauty standards. Q: How can Christian women overcome postpartum body shame? Postpartum body changes are part of God's design. Shift your perspective by thanking God for what your body has accomplished, such as carrying and nurturing life. Replace negative self-talk with Scripture, and focus on caring for your body out of gratitude rather than trying to “bounce back.” Q: How can I embrace aging as a Christian? Aging is a visible reminder of God's grace and the life He has given you. Scripture calls gray hair a crown of glory (Proverbs 16:31). Focus on spiritual renewal (2 Corinthians 4:16) and view smile lines and other signs of aging as evidence of joy and wisdom. Q: How do I teach my kids a healthy, biblical body image? Avoid appearance-based compliments and focus on character, kindness, and perseverance. Address unrealistic portrayals in media, celebrate body diversity, and remind your children that God created their bodies on purpose and with care. Q: How do I replace negative body image thoughts with God's truth? Identify the source of the negative thought (family, peers, or media) and then replace it with a relevant Bible verse. Keep verses like Psalm 139:14 or 1 Corinthians 6:19–20 visible—on your mirror, phone background, or journal—and repeat them regularly until they take root.   Faith-Fueled Wellness Quiz: Find out where you are on your wellness journey and get a custom podcast playlist filled with insight, inspiration, and motivation to help you move toward more energy, thriving health, and lasting peace — all in alignment with God's design. tinyurl.com/christianhealthquiz   Free Community tinyurl.com/holisticsisterhood   Book (Discover God's Health Wisdom: Exposing 8 Common Myths That Keep You Sick) www.herholistichealing.com/book   Holistic Health Coaching www.herholistichealing.com/coaching   Website www.herholistichealing.com   E-mail hello@herholistichealing.com

In this episode of the Real Estate Pros Podcast, Mark Shuler shares his journey from architecture to real estate development, discussing the challenges and rewards of the industry. He emphasizes the importance of creating affordable housing, the need for vertical integration in operations, and the current difficulties in capital raising amidst market uncertainty. Mark provides insights into his business model and the significance of aligning with investors' interests. Professional Real Estate Investors - How we can help you: Investor Fuel Mastermind:  Learn more about the Investor Fuel Mastermind, including 100% deal financing, massive discounts from vendors and sponsors you're already using, our world class community of over 150 members, and SO much more here: http://www.investorfuel.com/apply   Investor Machine Marketing Partnership:  Are you looking for consistent, high quality lead generation? Investor Machine is America's #1 lead generation service professional investors. Investor Machine provides true ‘white glove' support to help you build the perfect marketing plan, then we'll execute it for you…talking and working together on an ongoing basis to help you hit YOUR goals! Learn more here: http://www.investormachine.com   Coaching with Mike Hambright:  Interested in 1 on 1 coaching with Mike Hambright? Mike coaches entrepreneurs looking to level up, build coaching or service based businesses (Mike runs multiple 7 and 8 figure a year businesses), building a coaching program and more. Learn more here: https://investorfuel.com/coachingwithmike   Attend a Vacation/Mastermind Retreat with Mike Hambright: Interested in joining a “mini-mastermind” with Mike and his private clients on an upcoming “Retreat”, either at locations like Cabo San Lucas, Napa, Park City ski trip, Yellowstone, or even at Mike's East Texas “Big H Ranch”? Learn more here: http://www.investorfuel.com/retreat   Property Insurance: Join the largest and most investor friendly property insurance provider in 2 minutes. Free to join, and insure all your flips and rentals within minutes! There is NO easier insurance provider on the planet (turn insurance on or off in 1 minute without talking to anyone!), and there's no 15-30% agent mark up through this platform!  Register here: https://myinvestorinsurance.com/   New Real Estate Investors - How we can work together: Investor Fuel Club (Coaching and Deal Partner Community): Looking to kickstart your real estate investing career? Join our one of a kind Coaching Community, Investor Fuel Club, where you'll get trained by some of the best real estate investors in America, and partner with them on deals! You don't need $ for deals…we'll partner with you and hold your hand along the way! Learn More here: http://www.investorfuel.com/club   —--------------------

In this power-packed episode, Matty A. sits down with Mark Shuler, founder of Shuler Architecture and SGRE Investments, to break down the current state and future of the multifamily real estate market. With a portfolio of 4,000+ units and 30+ years of experience in architecture and development, Mark offers a unique, data-driven lens on navigating different political climates, underwriting conservatively, mastering operations, and identifying value-add opportunities during uncertain times.He dives deep into why he left over-regulated markets like Seattle for the pro-development environment of Houston, how he reduces renovation costs dramatically, and what macroeconomic signals he's watching—including bond yields and the looming threat of a black swan event.Whether you're a passive or active investor, this episode is filled with hard-earned wisdom, actionable strategies, and market foresight you won't want to miss.Timestamps:00:00 – Intro & Mark Shuler's background02:38 – Why he transitioned from architecture to investing06:28 – Navigating development in red vs. blue states14:49 – The unsustainable development path in the West Coast17:10 – Value-add investing and SGRE's vertically integrated model22:54 – How conservative underwriting protects investor capital27:14 – Market cycles, acquisition timing, and distressed deals32:03 – Operational discipline as the backbone of profitability40:22 – Potential black swan events and the bond market threat50:05 – Why real estate is still a secure long-term investmentConnect with Mark Shuler:

Today's Rapid Fire topics include: We start with Notre Dame athletic director Pete Bevacqua being invited along with SEC commissioner Greg Sankey to golf with President Trump to discuss the future of college sports, Xavier Watts led Notre Dame with six interceptions last season. Buy or Sell any two Irish players combining to have more than that this season? We guess the season over/under win total for the Texas football team. Start/Bench/Cut college football coaches Mike Norvell, Lane Kiffin and Deion Sanders. Shop for Irish Breakdown gear at our online store: https://ibstore.irishbreakdown.com/ Join the Irish Breakdown premium message board: https://boards.irishbreakdown.com Stay locked into Irish Breakdown for all the latest news and analysis about Notre Dame: https://www.irishbreakdown.com​ Subscribe to the Irish Breakdown podcast on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/irish-breakdown/id1485286986 Like and follow Irish Breakdown on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/irishbreakdown Sign up for the FREE Irish Breakdown daily newsletter: https://www.subscribepage.com/irish-breakdown-newsletter

MeidasTouch host Ben Meiselas reports on Trump voters who want their vote back. Meiselas interviews AFL-CIO President Liz Shuler and Meiselas plays a clip from the latest video release by a More Perfect Union. Visit https://meidasplus.com for more! Remember to subscribe to ALL the MeidasTouch Network Podcasts: MeidasTouch: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/meidastouch-podcast Legal AF: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/legal-af MissTrial: https://meidasnews.com/tag/miss-trial The PoliticsGirl Podcast: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-politicsgirl-podcast The Influence Continuum: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-influence-continuum-with-dr-steven-hassan Mea Culpa with Michael Cohen: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/mea-culpa-with-michael-cohen The Weekend Show: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/the-weekend-show Burn the Boats: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/burn-the-boats Majority 54: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/majority-54 Political Beatdown: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/political-beatdown On Democracy with FP Wellman: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/on-democracy-with-fpwellman Uncovered: https://www.meidastouch.com/tag/maga-uncovered Coalition of the Sane: https://meidasnews.com/tag/coalition-of-the-sane Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices