Podcast appearances and mentions of sarah santacroce

In this episode of The Humane Marketing Show, I'm joined by Jen Freeman to explore how your Human Design centers — both defined and open — reveal your natural marketing superpowers. We unpack what these centers are, how they shape the energy you radiate or absorb, and why knowing them helps you release the pressure to market like someone you're not. Jen clears up common myths and shows how understanding your centers can gently guide you to choose marketing strategies and business models that feel authentic and easeful. If you're a heart-centered entrepreneur or Changemaker ready to market from who you truly are, not from hustle or hype, this conversation will inspire and ground you. Previous Episode with Jen here. Here's what we discussed in this episode: What centers are in Human Design and their origins. Defined centers as areas of consistent, radiating energy. Open centers as areas where we receive and are influenced by others' energy. The importance of knowing your defined and open centers for self-understanding. Common misconceptions and the value of open centers for gaining wisdom. How understanding your centers can guide decisions and reduce pressure to be someone you're not. How your open centers can reveal what you are naturally drawn to offer or “sell” in your business or marketing. Using your Human Design to choose marketing strategies and business models that fit your authentic self. Watch this episode on YouTube Join our Workshop on June 4th -- Transcript   1 00:00:01.190 --> 00:00:07.499 Sarah Santacroce: Jen Freeman, welcome back to the humane marketing podcast it's good to hang out with you as always. 2 00:00:07.500 --> 00:00:09.810 jen freeman: Oh, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me, Sarah. 3 00:00:09.810 --> 00:00:28.310 Sarah Santacroce: Thank you. You've been on the show before. And we talked about human design. And if people want to go back to that episode, it's episode 194. So humane dot marketing forward. Slash. 194. 4 00:00:28.460 --> 00:00:56.510 Sarah Santacroce: This way, we take it a bit farther and further and deeper into, you know not so much about the different types, but more about the centers specifically defined and undefined centers. So again, if this is all kind of like complete, weird language to you. It's probably best that you 1st listen to episode 1, 94, so that you understand a little bit of the basics of human design. 5 00:00:56.710 --> 00:01:08.530 Sarah Santacroce: So, Jen, why don't you explain? For people who are relatively new to human design what the centers are like that we're going to be talking about today. 6 00:01:08.830 --> 00:01:19.320 jen freeman: So the centers in human design. They're a synthesis of many different systems. So they are. They do reflect the Chakras. They do reflect the Kabbalah tree of life. 7 00:01:19.460 --> 00:01:48.089 jen freeman: They go all the way down to genetic code and organs. So so when you look at a human design chart, it's a 2D representation of a 3D. Lived experience. And so the the centers themselves probably the simplest way to say it. They're they're portals for one, because where they're when they're open. It's where you're receiving information from the world, and then where they're fixed. It's where you're putting it out. I like to think of it as a radio station. So 101 Sarah 8 00:01:48.420 --> 00:02:01.600 jen freeman: going out, and that, you know, never ending, would be where your centers are fixed, where your energy is consistent, and you're radiating that energy into your environment where they're open is where you're receiving other people's. You're receiving my 1, 0 1 gin, you know. 9 00:02:02.170 --> 00:02:05.749 jen freeman: into yours. So so being with that constant interplay 10 00:02:05.980 --> 00:02:19.960 jen freeman: that's always happening. But this is why it's so important to know your centers, which one are defined because that's consistent. That's you. That's your radio station and which ones are open that are receiving because you're being conditioned there, which we'll talk more about. I'm sure. 11 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:38.109 Sarah Santacroce: I'm just gonna hold up for people who are watching on Youtube. I'm holding up this. Yeah, this, this chart, that kind of shows the the centers. So you mentioned the Chakras? So yes, there's the Chakras, but there's a few more right. What? What's in addition to the Chakra. 12 00:02:38.110 --> 00:02:53.609 jen freeman: Because that's part of like the Kabbalah tree of life. For example, if people are familiar with what that looks like, so it's a similar recognition that there are these portals of energy that are coming through us and to us. 13 00:02:53.760 --> 00:02:59.280 jen freeman: Right? So. And that's where the G center is unique. And that's that heart you just showed them. 14 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:00.280 Sarah Santacroce: In the center. 15 00:03:00.598 --> 00:03:06.640 jen freeman: That that is what's called the magnetic monopole. And it's basically what creates the illusion of a separate self 16 00:03:06.910 --> 00:03:11.089 jen freeman: and sets direction so that there's the apparent sense of sereness 17 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:32.619 jen freeman: right? Right? So and and again, human design is very deep. So I'm very aware with your listeners that probably every sentence we say could create more questions in their mind. And I just want them to know you're right on track. This is the nature of this. It's a very deep subject, a life, a lifelong inquiry. Really, you know, Sarah and I both have 18 00:03:32.730 --> 00:03:37.019 jen freeman: caught the bug. I've had the bug for 23 years. So I think you've had it 19 00:03:37.140 --> 00:03:38.460 jen freeman: 10, maybe. Yeah, yeah. 20 00:03:38.460 --> 00:03:41.200 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, but not as deep as you, you know. 21 00:03:41.200 --> 00:03:55.919 jen freeman: Yeah, yeah, so, but just just knowing that if it does raise questions, it's okay, it's great. Actually, it'll take you into wonderful places. But so we're gonna both do our best to keep it as simple, so you can apply it right away as possible. 22 00:03:56.390 --> 00:04:04.390 Sarah Santacroce: So you talked a little bit already about centers, one of them being the ones where 23 00:04:04.650 --> 00:04:25.470 Sarah Santacroce: you know who you are and the other ones being the ones where you receive energy. So the open centers are the ones where you receive other people's message and energy and the defined, or the would you call them closed centers? The defined centers are the ones where you 24 00:04:25.700 --> 00:04:31.650 Sarah Santacroce: you know you can tap into, because that's where you know who you are. Is that correct? 25 00:04:31.650 --> 00:04:32.210 jen freeman: Yeah. 26 00:04:32.520 --> 00:04:50.990 jen freeman: yes. So so something called the neutrino stream, which is an infinitesimally small particle of mass traveling just under the speed of light. So the defined centers. So basically, we are all being inundated with these tiny, tiny particles all the time, millions of them per second. 27 00:04:51.110 --> 00:05:04.549 jen freeman: So what? Where the centers are defined. It's where you have consistent conditioning by the planets of neutrinos. Okay? So it's you're still being conditioned. But it's all the time consistent. Your entire life. That's what's happening. 28 00:05:04.940 --> 00:05:15.480 jen freeman: Whereas where it's white is where you're both being conditioned by planets, by people, by animals, by plants, by like, it's like, it's it's really the felt sense of it 29 00:05:15.770 --> 00:05:27.839 jen freeman: is that basically, it's like the the where the centers are fixed. It's like the furniture. You never really think about it. You know, it's just there. It's consistent for you all the time, whereas where they're open, it's much more like the television 30 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:35.449 jen freeman: like flashy images, colors, lights, and our attention is very naturally drawn to the TV over the furniture, you know, unless you're a very, I guess. 31 00:05:35.610 --> 00:05:42.609 jen freeman: meditative person who likes to stare at your couch? That most of us are going to be drawn to those open centers. So 32 00:05:42.770 --> 00:05:48.849 jen freeman: so, part of how we learn about ourselves is, we see our defined centers. 33 00:05:48.990 --> 00:06:00.179 jen freeman: So let's say that, I have a defined emotional center which is the center of authority. It means that I need at least 24 h to make decisions. It means my emotions move on a wave 34 00:06:00.950 --> 00:06:03.309 jen freeman: meaning. I have a lot of feelings. They're data points. 35 00:06:03.590 --> 00:06:07.419 jen freeman: So if I don't understand that about myself. 36 00:06:07.750 --> 00:06:17.059 jen freeman: and I don't understand that someone with an open emotional center would be experiencing my emotions. They'd be. I would be. I would be conditioning them with my 37 00:06:17.060 --> 00:06:17.890 jen freeman: promotion. 38 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:21.770 Sarah Santacroce: So I actually have an undefined solar plexus. 39 00:06:22.170 --> 00:06:25.599 jen freeman: So so that would be where my emotions 40 00:06:25.800 --> 00:06:29.749 jen freeman: you would be feeling them. And this is so. Wherever you're open. 41 00:06:30.030 --> 00:06:42.450 jen freeman: you will be feeling somewhat the conditioning twice as big. Basically, so often we think we're the opposite of what we are. So like, someone with an open emotional center can feel like, oh, I'm so emotional! 42 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:46.500 jen freeman: But really they're feeling all of the emotions around them. 43 00:06:47.380 --> 00:07:00.259 jen freeman: Right, and it doesn't mean that they don't have their own. But it's it's not the same thing. It's it's a much cooler experience than the emotions are very hot. So if you have it fixed, you just naturally have a lot of heat going through your system. 44 00:07:00.420 --> 00:07:06.539 jen freeman: So so the essence of this. And again, Noah is always with you and design. The challenge is to 45 00:07:06.690 --> 00:07:13.380 jen freeman: essentialize it for people to apply is that if you look at your chart. You get a reading, you start to understand. 46 00:07:13.540 --> 00:07:24.809 jen freeman: You have incredible. You're incredibly empowered to understand who you are in any environment, how you influence people, how you affect them, and also how you're influenced and affected. 47 00:07:25.370 --> 00:07:28.250 jen freeman: It changes everything, everything 48 00:07:28.550 --> 00:07:35.719 jen freeman: so. And that's something just a very quick, anecdotal evidence. I have a totally open heart ego will center. 49 00:07:36.170 --> 00:07:41.769 jen freeman: So part of what that means is that I really need to do things at the right time. I'm basically 50 00:07:42.030 --> 00:07:56.620 jen freeman: it's not. I'm not here to to will things right? Where if somebody, 30% of the population has that fixed, they are, it's healthy for their heart, because it's about the heart center, but when it's open it actually hurts your heart to try to will things into being. 51 00:07:57.100 --> 00:07:57.800 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 52 00:07:57.960 --> 00:08:09.690 jen freeman: And so I was in the financial industry years ago, which was a hundred percent commission. I was in this in the States, in the mortgage business in California, and a very, very competitive market with the broker's license, which is like 53 00:08:09.790 --> 00:08:17.120 jen freeman: and it my God! It was so painful! It was so painful, and I I finally used this tool to understand it was 54 00:08:17.490 --> 00:08:19.269 jen freeman: I was totally in the wrong place. 55 00:08:19.450 --> 00:08:38.956 Sarah Santacroce: Right? Yeah, yeah, that's exactly how understanding who we are and how we're wired helps us. Then, you know, choose the the right career path, but also the right business plan and the right business module and and marketing tools, etc, etc. Yeah, 56 00:08:40.260 --> 00:08:52.009 Sarah Santacroce: So would you say that, like, I think there's some kind of misconception, maybe, about open centers, like people think they're kind of 57 00:08:52.160 --> 00:09:00.350 Sarah Santacroce: scared about open centers. Maybe. Because yeah. Tell us, tell us why, what's the fear behind these open centers? 58 00:09:00.530 --> 00:09:08.459 jen freeman: Yeah, so so the thing about the open centers, is it? Well, if we basically just go with it, all human beings seem to tend to want to be in control. 59 00:09:08.630 --> 00:09:12.180 Sarah Santacroce: And so the open centers are where they are not in control. 60 00:09:12.180 --> 00:09:12.550 Sarah Santacroce: Right? 61 00:09:12.550 --> 00:09:29.789 jen freeman: By definition. It's like they're not in control. Right? It's like, this is where, if different influences, different information. But the positive side of this is. It's where you're you're here to be wise in those centers. It's like you're constantly having wine tasting of all these different possibilities. So 62 00:09:30.280 --> 00:09:35.460 jen freeman: when you are defined. You. You're just it. You're not actually wise about it. You just are. It. 63 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:36.300 Sarah Santacroce: Right. 64 00:09:36.300 --> 00:09:48.169 jen freeman: But where you're open is where you get to taste all these different people's fields and energies. And so like again going back to the open heart example. So I'm here to be wise about what is truly a value. 65 00:09:48.990 --> 00:09:54.049 jen freeman: and that is a very big difference versus trying to prove I am valuable. 66 00:09:54.240 --> 00:10:07.609 jen freeman: which is where the people have it fixed, are trying to prove that they're valuable. And again, it's correct for them, right? They're supposed to get out there and be like woo, you know, especially in the States. We're so very sales oriented. So you know they they succeed very well in those environments. 67 00:10:07.770 --> 00:10:09.159 jen freeman: But if you don't. 68 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:18.630 jen freeman: if you understand so like, even right now, sitting with you, I feel completely grounded and confident that what we're talking about has great wisdom and great application. 69 00:10:19.940 --> 00:10:21.540 jen freeman: but it has nothing to do with me. 70 00:10:22.040 --> 00:10:29.299 jen freeman: It's I'm I'm just. I'm just expressing what I've taste, tested and learned, and then I that ideally, I want them to go apply it 71 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:29.970 jen freeman: right. 72 00:10:29.970 --> 00:10:30.790 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 73 00:10:30.980 --> 00:10:33.696 jen freeman: I've tasted. Yeah, go ahead. 74 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:37.860 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, yeah, this is good. So I have this 75 00:10:38.628 --> 00:10:42.040 Sarah Santacroce: spreadsheet in front of me, where 76 00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:45.220 Sarah Santacroce: I basically looked at my undefined centers. 77 00:10:45.520 --> 00:10:46.990 Sarah Santacroce: And then I 78 00:10:47.820 --> 00:10:59.619 Sarah Santacroce: given your like, we we did a class together that you taught and given that information. I basically sat down and said, Here's what I'm selling. 79 00:11:00.210 --> 00:11:12.570 Sarah Santacroce: because it's placed in the undefined centers. Right? So, for example, I have an undefined heart and ego. And so what I'm selling is worthiness 80 00:11:13.100 --> 00:11:19.409 Sarah Santacroce: or belonging to community or adaptation in times of shock 81 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:25.009 Sarah Santacroce: or ethics. So these kind of things. 82 00:11:25.300 --> 00:11:36.809 Sarah Santacroce: because that's what I'm constantly learning because of my undefined heart and ego. That's exactly what I'm here to, you know, give and share and sell. 83 00:11:36.930 --> 00:11:43.529 Sarah Santacroce: So that's would you say, that's an applied example of of how we can? 84 00:11:43.640 --> 00:11:46.029 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, tap into these open centers. 85 00:11:46.340 --> 00:11:49.559 jen freeman: Yes, and really harness their power. 86 00:11:49.980 --> 00:12:13.219 jen freeman: It's like, in a way, realizing what, Major, you're in in university. You're like, oh, biologist, right? This whole time. I was trying to, you know, be a Wall Street, and now you know or do business analysis. But I'm actually meant to be over here, and the sense of relief, the sense of oh, it all makes sense and the sense of not putting pressure on yourself anymore. To be something that you're not 87 00:12:13.340 --> 00:12:18.809 jen freeman: is so big, so like I have a chart of an entrepreneur. As an example. 88 00:12:19.310 --> 00:12:23.300 jen freeman: so much of my design. I'm designed to get out there do stuff. 89 00:12:24.020 --> 00:12:36.089 jen freeman: but I know I know that's my chart. I know that's my design. But I'm I'm here. So I have a lot of energy, basically. And I have the gate of power connected to my throat, so I know, when I speak that it will be heard 90 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:41.050 jen freeman: right one way or the other. You know I can't say if they're gonna like what they're hearing, but what it's gonna be heard. 91 00:12:41.460 --> 00:12:44.530 jen freeman: whereas if someone does not have a fixed throat center. 92 00:12:45.500 --> 00:12:50.410 jen freeman: then what that means is, they don't have consistent access to their voice 93 00:12:50.640 --> 00:13:04.030 jen freeman: being heard, so they often will have lots of stories like self-talk stories right about oh, people don't love me, or they don't like me, or they're not listening to me, but really on a mechanics level, they just don't have a fixed 94 00:13:04.130 --> 00:13:10.029 jen freeman: throat. So in that case they could learn. If they have something important to communicate, maybe write an email, write a letter 95 00:13:10.210 --> 00:13:14.090 jen freeman: that written communication could be received much better than spoken. 96 00:13:14.260 --> 00:13:16.579 Sarah Santacroce: Right, yeah. 97 00:13:16.580 --> 00:13:31.360 jen freeman: Sometimes people with open voices are so wise about the nature of speech that they become like incredible speakers. So it's it. But it depends on how how they're what they're telling themselves about it, right? Like, oh, no one listens. 98 00:13:31.740 --> 00:13:38.060 jen freeman: It's it's really it's so. It's so literal and physical and mechanical. That's the other thing. It's 99 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:41.429 jen freeman: yeah. The throat is a big, big topic, a big topic. 100 00:13:41.430 --> 00:13:52.340 Sarah Santacroce: And it's a big topic in marketing as well, because you know the throat is your voice, and how you are going to be heard, and so, understanding 101 00:13:52.650 --> 00:14:20.139 Sarah Santacroce: what your role is in this lifetime, and how you're supposed to be sharing that voice. Well, that's that's kind of a big deal right. And if you're forcing yourself to do one thing like you know, speaking on stage. But then you find out after a reading. Well, that's not exactly what's going to be easy for you. It's still doable, probably, but it's not going to be easy for you. 102 00:14:20.510 --> 00:14:25.166 jen freeman: Exactly well, and and to your point, I'm I'm in the process like we chatted about it. 103 00:14:25.680 --> 00:14:37.099 jen freeman: This in inspiration came to me. I mean, it's I'm workshopping. But I'm my current note. Name is the current current Newsletter. So I have the. My. One of my main gates is the basically the now 104 00:14:37.250 --> 00:14:50.540 jen freeman: I'm literally the voice of the now. So this is part of me using my voice of like, I'm just so aware of the now. And you know I have a background with astrology and cosmologies, and and I've very drawn to create a newsletter 105 00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:52.910 jen freeman: to help people in real time 106 00:14:53.020 --> 00:15:02.489 jen freeman: be with, especially as things are changing so radically that there's an underlying support that they can lean into the quality of time. There's a consistency in the quality of time. 107 00:15:02.990 --> 00:15:11.550 jen freeman: and it's straight up. It's it's part of me being like I am the voice of the now, that's all I ever talk about to anyone all the time. Right. 108 00:15:11.550 --> 00:15:12.230 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. 109 00:15:12.270 --> 00:15:20.410 jen freeman: So it's cool, because I just feel like, all right, just try it. You've been doing it for years, anyway. Why not just do it, and so it gives it so I feel a sense of confidence. 110 00:15:20.410 --> 00:15:23.059 Sarah Santacroce: It gives you these insights. Right? The. 111 00:15:23.140 --> 00:15:24.379 jen freeman: It really does. 112 00:15:24.380 --> 00:15:34.330 Sarah Santacroce: Yes, I want to take another example from from my what I written down. Oh, as you know, I have a undefined head. 113 00:15:34.590 --> 00:15:49.730 Sarah Santacroce: and so a big thing of what I'm selling is inspiration. Right? Is change, inspiration to do things differently. So yeah, understanding that. And just saying. 114 00:15:50.800 --> 00:16:10.839 Sarah Santacroce: because people kind of wonder sometimes, you know, family members like, what are you doing like? You're writing books like, how does that make any money? Or I'm like, well, that's that's my role in this lifetime is to inspire and bring about change and talk about change. And so just. 115 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:32.549 Sarah Santacroce: And it's not always easy to accept that either. To say, you know, is this like what I'm doing like? Shouldn't I be going back to, you know, selling Linkedin profile reviews and things like that? But I was not happy in that role, right? And I'm also a 5 1, as you know. And so it's all about. 116 00:16:32.630 --> 00:16:51.410 Sarah Santacroce: you know, spreading the message to a large audience. And so understanding that and going, okay, so yeah, I'll just accept that role. And this is what I do is, yeah, it's kind of like this big relief and big understanding as well. 117 00:16:51.780 --> 00:17:13.130 jen freeman: Oh, that's so beautiful. And and just I wanna point out to your listeners that part of what Sarah's talking about right now is that over the years we've known each other. Is that so? Being a 5, 1 means part of her role is one to many. She's here to amplify messages to larger groups of people, where, when she was selling the Linkedin profile that was one to one essentially. 118 00:17:13.130 --> 00:17:14.099 Sarah Santacroce: Right, yeah. 119 00:17:14.109 --> 00:17:16.119 jen freeman: And so it was not the right 120 00:17:16.469 --> 00:17:31.719 jen freeman: use where you can feel, and it just is off. It's like you're wearing like shoes a size too small, with a pebble in it. You know it just feels wrong. So it's in. And that's the thing. Also, like Sarah just expressed that accepting your design does not mean 121 00:17:32.309 --> 00:17:34.539 jen freeman: oh, no, I guess I just have to like 122 00:17:34.919 --> 00:17:51.059 jen freeman: oh, it's right. It's not like you're settling like you're like, oh, I had these dreams, and then, you know, and now I'm just going to settle for my design. It's like No, no, your design. The more you align with it, then totally unexpected synchronicities and possibilities open up things you could never have imagined. 123 00:17:51.500 --> 00:17:52.060 Sarah Santacroce: It's. 124 00:17:52.060 --> 00:17:55.499 jen freeman: And that's part of the mystery of all of this, you know. 125 00:17:55.850 --> 00:18:11.800 jen freeman: and as Sarah knows, I have a 20 plus years of Qigong background which is working with Chi for those who don't know it, working with energy. And this just completely maps to Qigong as well. You have to know your piece of the puzzle, as my teacher would say. If you know your piece of the puzzle. 126 00:18:11.900 --> 00:18:14.400 jen freeman: then you can fall into the hole effortlessly. 127 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:30.289 jen freeman: But if you're fighting your piece of the puzzle, and you're and you're like struggling to be something else. You can't actually connect into all the resources clients. It's it's it's it's so paradoxical, but it's like the more you can accept the limitation, the more you can thrive. 128 00:18:30.540 --> 00:18:39.099 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm, yeah, it's beautiful. There's there's another thing that I wrote down here is that I'm selling to twos. 129 00:18:39.260 --> 00:18:39.790 Sarah Santacroce: So. 130 00:18:39.790 --> 00:18:40.700 jen freeman: Yeah. 131 00:18:40.950 --> 00:18:41.850 Sarah Santacroce: That. 132 00:18:42.620 --> 00:18:50.200 Sarah Santacroce: How does that have to do? What does that have to do with the with the centers? Or is that something else? I can't remember how we got to that. 133 00:18:50.520 --> 00:19:01.199 jen freeman: Yeah, yeah, me, neither. Actually, the lines that's in lines and profile stuff. And that's styles of learning. That's so. It's not. It's not actually, it's not the centers. It's. 134 00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:02.329 Sarah Santacroce: That's about the centers. Okay. 135 00:19:02.330 --> 00:19:02.949 jen freeman: Sounded like. 136 00:19:02.950 --> 00:19:04.649 Sarah Santacroce: Action from the centers. Okay. 137 00:19:04.650 --> 00:19:07.359 jen freeman: Yeah, it's more like a well 138 00:19:07.450 --> 00:19:31.910 jen freeman: to be just for those whose minds might be like, huh? So there's Gates, and those gates are fixed in a hexagram from the I Ching. The I Ching has 6 lines, so so part of what Sarah is saying is that like? So let's say she has 53, and 54 is her son and earth right? So if it's 0 point 2, it means the second line of the Hexagram. So it's incredibly precise and specific 139 00:19:31.910 --> 00:19:53.120 jen freeman: and very helpful. But but in the twos just also complete. They're they are projecting outward. But they don't actually understand. Other people can see them. They're kind of very mysterious, the twos, you know. And so in a lot of ways, Sarah, with the 5 of like she's holding up the flag of like, Hey, I've got answers over here. 140 00:19:53.740 --> 00:19:55.430 jen freeman: Opportunities to be like. 141 00:19:55.730 --> 00:20:02.869 jen freeman: can someone actually help me, you know, and of course many of us will be going towards the 5, but also 2 and 5 142 00:20:03.020 --> 00:20:14.029 jen freeman: are related in the lower Hexagram and the upper hexagram. It goes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, so 2 and 5 are are both projected on as well. 143 00:20:14.030 --> 00:20:14.940 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm, so. 144 00:20:14.940 --> 00:20:18.619 jen freeman: So. So there's a deep relationship between the fives and the twos. 145 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:23.649 Sarah Santacroce: So okay, let's bring it back to the the centers. What? What? 146 00:20:24.470 --> 00:20:29.620 Sarah Santacroce: you know? What else can you tell us about these centers? I think they like a 147 00:20:29.740 --> 00:20:38.230 Sarah Santacroce: I feel like they come with a lot of vulnerability and and conditioning, as you have mentioned before. Right? So there's a big 148 00:20:38.540 --> 00:20:41.260 Sarah Santacroce: opportunity for healing, I guess. 149 00:20:41.700 --> 00:20:57.110 jen freeman: Such a big opportunity. And so and this is where, understanding that we are all conditioned. It's the nature of being a human being that from the moment we're born we're being conditioned. We call it culture. We call it family, right? So no one gets out of conditioning. So this is not 150 00:20:57.250 --> 00:21:07.760 jen freeman: this, is it? This is part of being human being. So then, from that place you can then go. Okay. How do I be wise about my conditioning. So I I have a totally open Asna of the thinking mind. 151 00:21:08.090 --> 00:21:23.740 jen freeman: And so and again, this is never ending. You're constantly refining this. It's not like you learn it once, and then you move on. It's like it's constant. So I've been in this past couple of months, and a very deep understanding of how deeply my mind is stimulated. 152 00:21:24.340 --> 00:21:50.990 jen freeman: and how important it is for me to be very aware and careful of what I put into my mind, especially as we're in all of these changes all over the world, right? As we're in this great moment of emergency emergence. There's a lot of people pouring a lot of fear and panic into the field where it's not good for my mind at all. Not that it's good for any mind, right, but if you have a fixed mind. It's not going to hit you the same. So I had to have a really deep process of being with. 153 00:21:51.310 --> 00:22:07.500 jen freeman: Who am I gonna look to for information. How am I gonna interact, you know, especially being in the States right enough, said the States. Quite a place right now. So and it was very pivotal to me to be like. Look, your mind is incredibly sensitive. 154 00:22:08.060 --> 00:22:14.509 jen freeman: You don't help anyone or anything by flooding your mind with all of this toxicity. 155 00:22:14.690 --> 00:22:18.770 jen freeman: I'm not designed for it, you know, someone with a fixed mind 156 00:22:19.020 --> 00:22:25.020 jen freeman: in a lot of ways. They're they're meant to be out there like hitting people with their thoughts. Basically, it's like they can like, do this. 157 00:22:25.020 --> 00:22:28.710 Sarah Santacroce: They're the ones invading you with their stories. Right? 158 00:22:28.710 --> 00:22:49.379 jen freeman: You know. And so and that's something where I've been. I really had to come to peace with and really, deeply be like, okay, if I feel drawn, I will go. Listen to a person, you know an article, a podcast. But other than that, I'm going to trust spirits going to bring me what I need to know, to play my part hopefully for the the benefit of all beings. Right? The sense of but it's part of that. 159 00:22:50.140 --> 00:23:00.760 jen freeman: I got to be real about the vulnerability, and both my parents had fixed minds so also to bring in again family. So in this journey of learning, how deeply their minds 160 00:23:01.180 --> 00:23:02.790 jen freeman: impacted me. 161 00:23:03.020 --> 00:23:13.289 jen freeman: So really, bit by bit, over time, unpacking like, Oh, wait! That's Mom's fears. Oh, that's oh, wait! That's how Dad approaches it right, and they're both fives. 162 00:23:13.520 --> 00:23:25.909 jen freeman: So they have a very different gig. I'm a i'm a 1 3. So I'm much more my own test tube. I get to come out and share my research right. But I got conditioned to think I was supposed to be 163 00:23:26.040 --> 00:23:38.809 jen freeman: something else, and that was very painful. So again, the more you can recognize your conditioning. And so the great place for your listeners to start very simply, I mean, complexly, but simply. Look at your family origin. 164 00:23:39.390 --> 00:23:52.699 jen freeman: What was held as values? Right? Was it money? Was it education? Was it family? Were they very open-minded and international? Were they very closed-minded like like, and not from a judgment place. Just true observation. 165 00:23:53.070 --> 00:24:03.289 jen freeman: and then look at your own centers. Look, where are you? Open, where were you being conditioned? If you have the capacity, you can run free charts all over the place. You could look at your mom and dad's chart if you knew the birth info. 166 00:24:03.740 --> 00:24:08.070 jen freeman: and you can. Just that is profound, profound. 167 00:24:08.070 --> 00:24:09.670 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm, hmm. 168 00:24:10.180 --> 00:24:16.300 jen freeman: So that's a great place to start right. And then, if we want to go straight to marketing business application. 169 00:24:16.600 --> 00:24:36.210 jen freeman: look at your business model. Look at your design right? And and so let's again take me because I know my design. When I was in 100 commission, financial huge egos everywhere. It was not my strength at all. But once I let go. I've had this coaching and consulting business for 12 years. 170 00:24:36.940 --> 00:24:49.879 jen freeman: I'm just being me bringing forward my research. That's all about spirit embodiment. These are my gates. How do you bring spirit into matter? How do you truly be aligned with the now in a powerful way and speak powerfully. 171 00:24:50.030 --> 00:24:53.279 jen freeman: so I just let go into it, and I'm very happy. 172 00:24:53.889 --> 00:24:54.500 Sarah Santacroce: Happy. 173 00:24:54.500 --> 00:24:57.870 jen freeman: Don't feel like I'm swimming upstream. People just find me. 174 00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:13.920 jen freeman: I just it's great. So that's what I would love for them to hear as well is just. If you feel like you're stuck, or suffering, or difficult man, there is a way, and it's not far or hard. It's actually right in front of you and these centers. 175 00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:19.130 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. And what I, what I like about this is that we're not trying to. 176 00:25:19.910 --> 00:25:25.059 Sarah Santacroce: you know, use human design as some kind of tactic that we're now going to 177 00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:43.200 Sarah Santacroce: go into psycho mode, and, you know, try to get because we don't have access to our clients. Human design, usually, at least not our prospects. Human design. It's all about finding out more who you are. 178 00:25:43.450 --> 00:25:43.880 jen freeman: Yes. 179 00:25:43.880 --> 00:26:06.409 Sarah Santacroce: Using that to your advantage, and being more authentic, being the real, you right that that's what this is all about, and and for people listening. I think they probably understand by now that this is complex, you know, like this is very complex. There's all these different layers. 180 00:26:06.970 --> 00:26:26.749 Sarah Santacroce: And yeah, if if you're interested in finding out more and going a bit deeper. Well, Jen is coming back to us to the Humane marketing circle to do another workshop on June 4, th Jen, tell us a little bit what we're going to be doing on June 4.th 181 00:26:26.970 --> 00:26:55.399 jen freeman: Great. So one of my favorite things to do with coaching groups, such as Sarah's, is that we'll have an introduction looking at the main thing. But then we're going to have 5 people that will have their charts in advance that are essentially on the hot seat. So we get to talk for 5 to 10 min with each person, and look at the application so that you in real time can learn. You can see. And it's just fascinating how different each person is right. And then you hear their stories of how they've been applying it, or what they're doing in their business. And it's 182 00:26:55.490 --> 00:27:18.800 jen freeman: it's it is so inspiring. Speaking of, you know, inspiration right? So hopefully, you would leave that workshop both with an idea of how your own charts working, looking at like, where? Where are the strengths like? Where? Where? You're already playing to your strengths? And so you're like great. Just more of that, and be able to go. Oh, right, I'm trying to do this over here, you know. Maybe I should not do that. And so I think you we learn so much from each other 183 00:27:19.820 --> 00:27:23.559 jen freeman: to see multiple people, especially in this back to back way. 184 00:27:23.910 --> 00:27:26.559 jen freeman: It's like magic. It really is like magic. 185 00:27:26.560 --> 00:27:31.930 Sarah Santacroce: Exactly. Even if your chart doesn't get picked. It's like, Oh, wow! I have this one, too. So 186 00:27:31.930 --> 00:27:32.969 Sarah Santacroce: yeah, no wonder 187 00:27:32.970 --> 00:27:56.720 Sarah Santacroce: I'm doing this. And I like this marketing tactic. Or no wonder I don't like that one. So yeah, so much wisdom coming out of that. So I can't wait to. Yeah, to have you talk to us about open and or defined and undefined centers. But for people who can't make it to the workshop, please tell 188 00:27:56.980 --> 00:28:02.410 Sarah Santacroce: tell listeners where they can find you and your newsletter that you're going to be. 189 00:28:02.410 --> 00:28:31.209 jen freeman: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So my website's Jen Freemanco, JENF. REEM, a, n.co. And I offer one of the things is I call them the Decode, your design sessions. And I've actually created my own method includes human design, astrology, numerology, and something called the personality system because I really love Meta context. I love looking at the real big picture and then helping give people a strategy of how to, because to me how to live a happy life. 190 00:28:31.300 --> 00:28:47.649 jen freeman: It's like really loving, understanding your vehicle understanding like what who you are, what you're here to do. And so so. And I also do ongoing coaching with people based on this kind of stuff as well. And one thing I want to say just to really. 191 00:28:47.860 --> 00:29:01.239 jen freeman: I really hope from my heart to your heart. Whoever's listening as much as there's complexity, and there is. There is a simplicity here that if you, if you only heard this. Just understand, there's a way that you are 192 00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:19.799 jen freeman: a radio station that's putting out, and there's a way that you are receiving. If you want to call it Yin and Yang. There's a fundamental dynamic going, and the more you can be curious about that, the more you're going to free yourself up from so much, so just even that alone could take you so far. 193 00:29:19.800 --> 00:29:35.750 Sarah Santacroce: What I'll never forget from our reading is is where you showed me. You know the push against and the resistance that creates. And yeah, that image keeps coming back. I'm like, don't push, don't push, it's not. It's not going to be easier. So just. 194 00:29:36.231 --> 00:29:42.970 jen freeman: I'm good. I'm so glad. And I really it's a great joy. This 195 00:29:43.110 --> 00:29:59.169 jen freeman: this whole thing Sarah and I are talking about, and we both share this as a value, I feel confident in it. We want to see a world that's happier and healthier, where people are more engaged. They're not stuck in their conditioning. They're bringing forward their unique gifts. They're able to. Really. 196 00:29:59.330 --> 00:30:10.749 jen freeman: it is going to be through business. It's gonna be through how we connect with each other. It's just, and that's part of both our passion. We want people to really know who they are and succeed and thrive everywhere in our lives. 197 00:30:11.570 --> 00:30:20.709 Sarah Santacroce: Beautiful. So yeah, please join us humane dot marketing forward slash workshop. And it's taking place on June 4.th 198 00:30:21.110 --> 00:30:29.710 Sarah Santacroce: Thanks so much for doing this little preview for our listeners here on the podcast and I can't wait to see you. Thanks, Jen. 199 00:30:29.850 --> 00:30:31.130 jen freeman: I look forward to it.  

In this heartfelt solo episode, Sarah Santacroce invites you into Conversations for Change—a series of meaningful gatherings designed to help us unlearn the hustle, reimagine business with more humanity, and gently recalibrate our own path. You'll hear about the fundraiser supporting the launch of her new book Business Like We're Human and how you can join these transformative conversations that blend reflection, connection, and action. If you're ready to do business in a way that feels aligned, spacious, and true to who you are, this invitation is for you. Each workshop explores one part of the book's journey: Wake Up: Let's shine a light on outdated systems and inherited beliefs around work and worth. Reimagine: We'll dream boldly about what a truly humane business might look like. Recalibrate: We'll ground those dreams into practical shifts—in mindset, systems, and relationships. Integrate: Finally, we'll reflect on how to sustain those shifts with grace and spaciousness. Support the launch here --   Speaker 0:  hello, friends. today, i'm coming with a bit of a special episode, a bit of a self serving episode. i hope throughout the months and years, i, always give enough value so that you feel like, yeah, you love listening to this show and, learn a lot from our conversations with, my guests. but today, i'm coming here and sharing about two offerings that are part of my life's work to guide us towards a more humane way to do marketing and business. you've probably heard me talk about this third book. i've been hinting at it for a long time now that i've been quietly working on. it's called business like we're human. and, yeah. this book, it's close to my heart. it's about business. yes. but really, it's about us. it's about remembering our own humanity in the hustle and about finding inner peace so that we can create outer change. in my first two books, marketing like we're human and selling like we're human, i wrote about being gentle and more humane towards our clients. and this third one, it turns the mirror gently towards ourselves. we're really in a moment of reckoning. so many of us are questioning the rules we were taught about business. maybe you too are tired of the constant striving, the 6 figure hype, the pressure to scale at all costs. i know that i am. and that's why this book follows a different rhythm, a rhythm that aligns more with nature than with spreadsheets. and the framework i've used in this book is inspired by the peace symbol, and the journey unfolds in four stages. the first one is called wake up. the second one is reimagine. the third one is recalibrate. and the final one is integrate. and i truly believe this book needs to be experienced, not just read. i have received a a few books in recent times, business books, where i just noticed how i don't have the mental energy to sit there and read the whole book by myself. and i also feel like what we're doing in the humane marketing community is so valuable to sit together and find solutions that work for each of us and not just, you know, feel like we have to apply exactly what we're being taught. so this is why i'm launching this book through a series of facilitated gatherings that i'm calling conversations for change. so they are not lectures. yes. i'm going to bring some ideas from the book. but then the idea is really to go into breakout rooms and and talk about these things, talk about the unlearning maybe that we have to do from the toxic business advice, and then reimagine together what this new way of doing business that fits into our lives rather than having to fit our lives around our business could look like. so they are conversations, meaningful conversations, hopefully, gentle spaces for reflection, insight, and connection. and i have run these workshops before as a beta inside the humane marketing circle, and, yeah, the experience was incredibly moving. i'm gonna read you two testimonials. monica said, the workshops with sarah made me feel that i can offer myself permission to step outside the box and run a business from a space of wild creativity and roaring courage. i feel that anything is possible. and stephanie shared, these workshops helped me see that a truly successful business is one that is not only empathic to clients, but also creates space for me to be human, take care of myself, and connect with the world around me. i've never felt more certain that these conversations matter. so here's the invitation from one human to another. please join us for the conversations for change. they're running from june 10 to july 1. and this fundraiser that i'm running right now that gives you access to these conversations for change as well as the ebook, business like we're human, and the audiobook version that i already recorded of business like we're human, is running right now. so from may 9 to june 9, you can help us together raise the funds in a crowdfunding activity. and if you go to humane.marketing/conversationsforchange, you will find out all the details. each workshop explores one part of the book's journey. so wake up, we are gonna shine a light on outdated systems and inherited beliefs around work and worth. in reimagine, we'll dream boldly about what a truly humane business might look like for each of us because it's different for each of us. in the third workshop, recalibrate will ground those dreams into practical shifts in mindset, systems, and relationships. and finally, in integrate, the fourth workshop will reflect on how to sustain those shifts with grace and spaciousness. each of these sessions is sixty minutes long. and if you can't attend live or all of them, i totally understand replays will be available in a private hub. so, again, the all the details are at humane.marketing/conversationsforchange. and what you're really doing is helping all of us put this book out there, create this message, and then having conversations around it. and if this message really resonates with you, there's one more way to support. you can become an affiliate and actually help spread the word. and by doing that, uh, you earn $10 for each person who signs up for the conversations. you find the link to sign up as an affiliate at the bottom of the fundraiser page. again, the link is humane.marketing/conversationsforchange. so i look forward to seeing you at least at one of these conversations. it's gonna be special, i feel. i told you i was gonna talk about two offerings. the second offering i wanted to share about is the marketing like we're human program. that's based on my framework of the seven p's of humane marketing. you're already familiar with the seven p's. if you're a regular on this podcast, i mention them all the time. all the conversations here are based on the seven p's of humane marketing. but in the program, we go deep into them and really take the time to define them for our business. and it all starts from who you are, your passion, and your person, as well as your personal power. like, what makes you uniquely you? and then we go into people, product, pricing, promotion, and partnership. so it's really a blend of personal development and pragmatic marketing and business building. it's for entrepreneurs at any stage in business. we have beginning entrepreneurs who come on the market now and just know have this deep knowing that they want to do marketing differently than so many of the examples they see out there. but we also have people with twenty years of experience because they finally want to unlearn all the pushy tactics, and guru advice that i i include myself, we have been learning over the last twenty years and instead want to market from who they are and just bring more integrity and ethical, support into their business and life's work. there are many case studies and testimonials on the program page. so if this is of interest to you, please go have a look at those testimonials. there's videos from from participants because, yes, obviously, it's still marketing. right? and we have such, baggage around these marketing programs that whenever i speak to people, you know, there's still a bit of fear. well, sarah, how is this going to be different from all the programs that i've already attended? so, that's why i'm taking so much time to create these testimonials. so you can find them all at humane.marketing/program. we start on june 5 for another live cohort. the early bird, yes, it's over. it ended april 30. but if you book a call with me through the program page and mention the word podcast, either when we talk or in an email, i'd love to honor your fidelity as a as a listener with a hundred dollar discount. so just mention that word podcast or, you know, you don't have to say it like a robot. it will come up in the conversation. and, yeah, i'd be happy to give you a hundred dollar discount. thank you so much for letting me share about my life's work. i appreciate you as a listener to the humane marketing podcast. take care, and i hope to see you and meet you at the conversations for change.

In this episode of Humane Marketing podcast, I'm joined by Polly Hearsey for a deep and refreshing conversation about radically reinventing business. Together, we explore how heart-centered entrepreneurs can move beyond fear-based tactics, align with natural rhythms, simplify offerings, and build businesses rooted in service, integrity, and community. If you're ready to treat your business as a living, evolving ecosystem—and break free from outdated rules—you'll find inspiration and real-world guidance here. This is business reimagined for a more humane world. Here's what we discussed in this episode: Buyers are more skeptical and seek authenticity over hype. Clients sense the true intent behind messaging; fear- or scarcity-based offers don't resonate. Aligning business with natural and seasonal rhythms creates a more sustainable presence. Flexibility is key-evolve offerings in real time based on current needs. Simplifying offerings-less but deeper-better meets people's needs. Treat business as a living, evolving ecosystem rather than a machine to optimize. Root work in service and integrity instead of focusing solely on profit. Shift away from endless growth; redefine success through depth and impact. Build business around community, connection, and co-creation rather than competition. Practice courageous listening to ourselves, clients, and the world-and act on what we hear. And most importantly, break all the rules and question all the assumptions you have around business. Watch this episode on YouTube -- 1 00:00:01.610 --> 00:00:04.559 Sarah Santacroce: Hi, Polly, it's good to speak to you again. 2 00:00:04.560 --> 00:00:12.699 Polly Hearsey: Thanks. You know, I always enjoy coming to talk to you because it's just it's fun to suggest. Go where we go. It's it's all. 3 00:00:12.700 --> 00:00:13.170 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. 4 00:00:13.170 --> 00:00:13.820 Polly Hearsey: Light. 5 00:00:14.100 --> 00:00:14.600 Polly Hearsey: Thank you. 6 00:00:14.600 --> 00:00:23.210 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, it's kind of like one of the things that I feel like. That's my zone of genius. And I know it's yours to. 7 00:00:23.330 --> 00:00:46.690 Sarah Santacroce: you know, reimagine, rethink differently. And so really, that's what I want to do today. And I was just telling you, I think we can do half of the episode or the beginning of the episode about today, right now and then look into the future. So so yeah, let's let's start there. You know, it's quite the time we live in. And there's 8 00:00:46.810 --> 00:00:54.670 Sarah Santacroce: there's probably I can sense the fear in entrepreneurship. And yeah, I'm just 9 00:00:55.170 --> 00:01:00.949 Sarah Santacroce: maybe start us off before we go into taking action, start us off with 10 00:01:01.150 --> 00:01:06.680 Sarah Santacroce: explaining what you sense energetically. What is going on. 11 00:01:08.320 --> 00:01:14.060 Polly Hearsey: I think that there's been a big shift in the buyer market 12 00:01:14.500 --> 00:01:22.949 Polly Hearsey: in terms of what they want and what they're expecting, and the way in which they've been burnt in the past. 13 00:01:24.600 --> 00:01:30.500 Polly Hearsey: And there's definitely an ability to read through the hype 14 00:01:30.730 --> 00:01:36.349 Polly Hearsey: right? And the promises. So there's a lot of skepticism, I would say, building. 15 00:01:37.123 --> 00:01:47.610 Polly Hearsey: So. And you see that when people put ads out say on Facebook or something, and you read the comments and the threads, it'll just be. Get the just people be tearing into them because it's not. 16 00:01:47.790 --> 00:01:48.180 Sarah Santacroce: It. 17 00:01:48.180 --> 00:01:48.870 Polly Hearsey: So I'm asking. 18 00:01:48.870 --> 00:01:50.240 Sarah Santacroce: Feel so fake. It's fake. 19 00:01:50.240 --> 00:02:00.419 Polly Hearsey: Feels fake and and the promises feel overhyped. You know, state, and particularly in the space that we're in. 20 00:02:00.690 --> 00:02:05.689 Polly Hearsey: We've got a lot of economic turmoil, and we've got a but 21 00:02:06.060 --> 00:02:11.710 Polly Hearsey: but even before the sort of like the very recent economic turmoil, what we had was 22 00:02:12.470 --> 00:02:18.240 Polly Hearsey: a lot of well established businesses, we're sliding. 23 00:02:18.810 --> 00:02:19.250 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 24 00:02:19.250 --> 00:02:23.800 Polly Hearsey: And they were keeping it under wraps. And I also noticed a lot of people who'd. 25 00:02:24.410 --> 00:02:34.189 Polly Hearsey: Yeah, maybe 6 years ago had been very present, and then they'd slid off my radar. And then all of a sudden, they've started advertising. That tells me that their business is slipping. 26 00:02:34.420 --> 00:02:35.010 Sarah Santacroce: Right. 27 00:02:35.010 --> 00:02:44.320 Polly Hearsey: And that's because the way in which they were approaching it through this sort of psychological, persuasion-based approach. 28 00:02:45.580 --> 00:02:52.540 Polly Hearsey: It's not working, because once you know that it's happening to you. It doesn't work anymore. So people becoming very wise. 29 00:02:52.710 --> 00:02:58.950 Polly Hearsey: And but I also think that people want something different now. They don't want the same old 30 00:02:59.310 --> 00:03:12.899 Polly Hearsey: heavy investments long term, because they don't feel that they have a grasp on where things are going to be in 3 months. So why would I invest in an 8 month, 10 month, 12 month program 31 00:03:13.390 --> 00:03:17.909 Polly Hearsey: to support myself in whatever area I needed 32 00:03:18.130 --> 00:03:27.189 Polly Hearsey: when I don't know where I'm going to be. Am I going to be the same person? Am I going to want to do the same sort of things? Because I think people can feel so much bubbling up within them 33 00:03:27.300 --> 00:03:32.310 Polly Hearsey: that they're not entirely sure how they're going to respond to it. 34 00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:33.110 Sarah Santacroce: So. 35 00:03:33.110 --> 00:03:44.109 Polly Hearsey: Big investments don't make an awful lot of sense. And yet some of these very established businesses that's a lot of money to invest with them on something where they're not getting one to one support. 36 00:03:44.110 --> 00:03:46.150 Sarah Santacroce: Right? It's always group, giant group. 37 00:03:46.150 --> 00:04:01.209 Polly Hearsey: Giant groups. And it's like, Oh, the value is in the information. No, the value isn't in the information anymore. We have AI proliferating that can turn information into process, but without any nuanced understanding 38 00:04:01.690 --> 00:04:03.810 Polly Hearsey: of how to deliver it. 39 00:04:03.810 --> 00:04:04.420 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 40 00:04:04.420 --> 00:04:11.400 Polly Hearsey: So what people are now looking for is more human contact. And yet we've built business structures 41 00:04:11.600 --> 00:04:13.109 Polly Hearsey: that remove that. 42 00:04:13.310 --> 00:04:13.920 Sarah Santacroce: Right. 43 00:04:13.920 --> 00:04:23.200 Polly Hearsey: And so all the expectations about how you automate everything and how you run one to many, and all of that is oh. 44 00:04:23.340 --> 00:04:30.899 Polly Hearsey: you know I mean, education hasn't lost its value. But information has, I think. And so so it's changing expectations. So I think 45 00:04:31.070 --> 00:04:45.089 Polly Hearsey: that puts us in a position where we need to be really agile to respond, and creative as well. So we're not just going. Oh, God, I've got to try a little bit harder to make something that's always worked work because it's not going to. 46 00:04:45.090 --> 00:04:49.070 Sarah Santacroce: Right. You can't just push harder and think it's gonna. 47 00:04:49.190 --> 00:04:54.919 Polly Hearsey: You see that with the classic old, give me your email address and I'll give you something of value. 48 00:04:55.090 --> 00:04:57.479 Polly Hearsey: How hard is that to push right now. 49 00:04:57.480 --> 00:04:58.869 Sarah Santacroce: Right? It's yeah. 50 00:04:58.870 --> 00:05:17.000 Polly Hearsey: Do not want yet another, because I don't know about you. My inbox is unmanageable. I spent tail end of last year unsubscribing. I spent a whole day just going unsubscribe, unsubscribe, unsubscribe. Stop sending me so much stuff. I don't read it. I do not have the capacity to read it. 51 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:17.390 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. 52 00:05:17.390 --> 00:05:18.890 Polly Hearsey: But people don't want that. 53 00:05:18.890 --> 00:05:19.420 Sarah Santacroce: No. 54 00:05:19.420 --> 00:05:28.300 Polly Hearsey: And there was an interesting thread on substack. I was reading yesterday where people were saying, what I want is the ability to buy a single article 55 00:05:28.520 --> 00:05:32.530 Polly Hearsey: stop making me subscribe, because there are so many writers here. 56 00:05:32.690 --> 00:05:36.970 Polly Hearsey: but I want to be able to subscribe to pay for one article, awesome and 57 00:05:36.970 --> 00:05:38.760 Polly Hearsey: interesting reflection of where we're at. 58 00:05:38.760 --> 00:05:58.989 Sarah Santacroce: That's kind of what I took away from your newsletter the other day where I was like, oh, I got to have you back on the podcast where you talked about bite. Sized. Right? Yeah. Like, people want small bits, and they want to yes experience. Your work before engaging in any length of program. 59 00:05:59.130 --> 00:06:26.720 Sarah Santacroce: And and yeah, like, I, just, I'm experimenting this year with instead of a 3 month program. I'm running the marketing like we're human in a 5 week program, and I already see the difference, like people who've gone through it in January. They tell me it was so much easier to decide, because it's 5 weeks, and I can. I can handle that like you said I don't know. 3 months, I'm you know, all over the place in 3 months, and so. 60 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:27.140 Polly Hearsey: Yeah. 61 00:06:27.140 --> 00:06:30.469 Sarah Santacroce: Weeks. Yes, just sound easier. And I think. 62 00:06:30.470 --> 00:06:37.489 Polly Hearsey: People wanted to know what they're going to do with that, you know, and 3 months down the line it feels like a very long time. 63 00:06:37.490 --> 00:06:37.900 Sarah Santacroce: Right. 64 00:06:37.900 --> 00:06:50.989 Polly Hearsey: Not, but it feels like a very long time, whereas 5 weeks it doesn't. And I, I ran a couple of 3 week programs this year, and that was much easier for people, although it wasn't easier for me. 65 00:06:51.210 --> 00:06:55.530 Polly Hearsey: actually, because I and I know how much I 66 00:06:55.750 --> 00:06:58.989 Polly Hearsey: want people to understand in order to be able to action it. 67 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:00.619 Sarah Santacroce: That's the thing right? 68 00:07:00.620 --> 00:07:04.469 Polly Hearsey: They had a little bit of a sort of like shockwave. 69 00:07:05.260 --> 00:07:21.509 Polly Hearsey: So I got so I just said to them at the end of it instead, I wasn't going to do a pitch at the end of it. I just said, Look, take your time, process it. Expect to go, you know. Come out of this high and come down through this processing, and then you come out the other side of it. Just be gentle with yourself. 70 00:07:21.510 --> 00:07:22.020 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 71 00:07:22.020 --> 00:07:28.049 Polly Hearsey: But I have, you know, for me it's like I I couldn't in all integrity 72 00:07:28.370 --> 00:07:32.240 Polly Hearsey: offer you something that didn't cover all of the bases. 73 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:32.930 Sarah Santacroce: Right. 74 00:07:32.930 --> 00:07:43.810 Polly Hearsey: Even on, you know, I've scaled it back to just one focus. But I still, you know, I need to give you the information, because if you don't have that, then you've got missing pieces of the puzzle, and you're not gonna do anything with it. So. 75 00:07:43.810 --> 00:07:44.240 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. 76 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:54.380 Polly Hearsey: There there is for us when we're actually designing stuff. There is a bit of a balancing act to go on there, because we we know what we need to do in order to be in integrity with our own values. 77 00:07:54.750 --> 00:07:56.010 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, exactly. 78 00:07:56.010 --> 00:07:59.260 Polly Hearsey: Equally responding to that changing need of. 79 00:07:59.880 --> 00:08:06.060 Polly Hearsey: I need something a little more immediate. I need something very specific. No, I mean. 80 00:08:06.530 --> 00:08:07.360 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. 81 00:08:07.490 --> 00:08:18.009 Sarah Santacroce: yeah, what I did also because of the integrity piece. I I well, I've always had that. But I just have a flat fee where people can come again. 82 00:08:18.170 --> 00:08:38.470 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, next round and and often. That's a very much appreciated gesture, because it doesn't mean Oh, you failed, and you didn't, you know, integrate it? But it just gives them more time. And that's often the thing that we don't have in these programs is like, Oh, 5 weeks so much content. 83 00:08:38.470 --> 00:08:55.560 Sarah Santacroce: And then you're like, Oh, exhausted after. So yeah, having this flat fee for past participants has really yeah helped people. I think, also just giving them permission, giving themselves permission. Yeah, I'm going to do this again. And this is this, is that deep. 84 00:08:55.560 --> 00:08:59.670 Polly Hearsey: Yeah. And it's okay. Because every time it's like, when you read a book. 85 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:20.329 Polly Hearsey: when you read it the 1st time you have, you have particular paragraphs that jump out at you, and then you'll read it again. You think I'm really waiting for that moment, and it doesn't come, but it comes somewhere else, because you're just integrating and processing something else and understanding it. And if I think about my own journey through business because it's what it was 11 years now since 86 00:09:20.846 --> 00:09:22.190 Polly Hearsey: I started my business. 87 00:09:22.490 --> 00:09:25.110 Polly Hearsey: I don't recognize the person I was back then. 88 00:09:25.750 --> 00:09:29.929 Polly Hearsey: but if I go back to what I was talking about. I was talking about the same things. 89 00:09:29.930 --> 00:09:30.820 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. 90 00:09:30.820 --> 00:09:36.080 Polly Hearsey: But my understanding of what I was talking about was very different. 91 00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:36.510 Sarah Santacroce: And. 92 00:09:36.510 --> 00:09:46.199 Polly Hearsey: And I knew that I had. In fact, I have a client who's worked with me over a number of years, say to me, and she'd had a break, and she came back and she said, the last program I ran, she said. 93 00:09:47.070 --> 00:09:50.520 Polly Hearsey: you've it's so much more coherent what you offer now. 94 00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:59.299 Polly Hearsey: Yeah, I mean, it feels that way. But it takes time to get there. It's like slow version of slow food version of business, you know. 95 00:09:59.660 --> 00:10:00.380 Polly Hearsey: next time 96 00:10:00.380 --> 00:10:11.299 Polly Hearsey: to build the flavors and to understand the process, and and to really sort of settle yourself into it. And I think that's what we're missing. I think it's also a hint of where we're going. 97 00:10:12.090 --> 00:10:13.589 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, we'll get to that. 98 00:10:14.590 --> 00:10:16.540 Sarah Santacroce: But maybe 99 00:10:16.850 --> 00:10:25.899 Sarah Santacroce: so you're you're seeing these sub stack threads. And you know, listening to clients what they tell you, what do you feel like? Is is 100 00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:37.190 Sarah Santacroce: well, their biggest fear right now. But also, what kind of mistakes are they making because they're in fear? So what kind of business mistakes are they making. 101 00:10:37.190 --> 00:10:44.929 Polly Hearsey: I think one of the biggest mistakes that people are making are trying to persist in being places and doing things that they aren't right for them. 102 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:45.960 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 103 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:51.359 Polly Hearsey: And I said at the end of last year that I think social media will really. 104 00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:51.740 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 105 00:10:51.740 --> 00:10:53.939 Polly Hearsey: Have a massive shake up this year. 106 00:10:53.940 --> 00:10:54.770 Sarah Santacroce: Right. 107 00:10:55.410 --> 00:11:04.719 Polly Hearsey: And I do think that you know that sort of like the pressure to be on social media, to be on Tiktok, to be on Instagram to, you know, to have this visual presence. 108 00:11:05.410 --> 00:11:09.939 Polly Hearsey: People are realizing that it's not actually doing them any favors. 109 00:11:10.120 --> 00:11:11.050 Sarah Santacroce: Right. 110 00:11:11.050 --> 00:11:19.060 Polly Hearsey: And where everybody's consciousness is at, it's about depth and precision. 111 00:11:20.004 --> 00:11:23.810 Polly Hearsey: The the wonderful Jess Lorimer says. 112 00:11:24.277 --> 00:11:31.489 Polly Hearsey: An inch wide a mile deep. That's and that's where we're at, not not a mile wide and an inch deep, which is where we've been. 113 00:11:31.490 --> 00:11:33.560 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, all the time. Right? 114 00:11:33.560 --> 00:11:34.690 Polly Hearsey: That depth. 115 00:11:35.010 --> 00:11:43.279 Polly Hearsey: So it's about having deeper conversations, about deeper connection, and that is so hard to achieve in sound bites. 116 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:44.210 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. 117 00:11:44.420 --> 00:11:45.220 Polly Hearsey: So when I say. 118 00:11:45.220 --> 00:11:46.089 Sarah Santacroce: Think of bias. We're. 119 00:11:46.090 --> 00:11:47.720 Polly Hearsey: And it's big of the sound bites. 120 00:11:47.720 --> 00:11:55.709 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, we're wanting bite, sized things that we're offering. And yet we want to go deep. 121 00:11:55.710 --> 00:12:04.489 Polly Hearsey: I think the thing is, it's about what is there within you that is going to stop someone in their tracks and make them think. 122 00:12:04.860 --> 00:12:05.650 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 123 00:12:05.650 --> 00:12:15.369 Polly Hearsey: What is something that's really going to land? I was saying something this week in a group that I'm in, I saying there is a difference between visibility and having your content received. 124 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:30.560 Polly Hearsey: You can be visible. You can be visible to millions of people. But that doesn't mean that content has achieved anything. And I think we have such a moral obligation to make sure that the content that we put out there actually has a meaning 125 00:12:30.830 --> 00:12:36.329 Polly Hearsey: and a value to somebody because it has a cost attached to it. 126 00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:38.500 Polly Hearsey: It has a cost to our planet. 127 00:12:38.790 --> 00:12:39.560 Sarah Santacroce: Right. 128 00:12:39.560 --> 00:12:49.820 Polly Hearsey: And it's a permanent escalating cost, because it goes into data banks that have to be sustained with electricity and water and land. That 129 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:51.670 Polly Hearsey: so, you know. 130 00:12:52.590 --> 00:13:02.750 Polly Hearsey: for me, it's there's a huge amount of integrity about saying, not putting out this very shallow content just because it gets abuse. It's about depth. 131 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:09.610 Polly Hearsey: It's me that is the mistake that people are making, because they're still trying to use the old methods. 132 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:19.610 Polly Hearsey: So my conversation has always has been this year about, flip it, flip the script because you need to be thinking about. What can I do to create 133 00:13:20.040 --> 00:13:26.620 Polly Hearsey: the means for people to engage with me in a way that is actually meaningful for me and for my business. 134 00:13:26.620 --> 00:13:27.010 Sarah Santacroce: I'm. 135 00:13:27.010 --> 00:13:29.770 Polly Hearsey: Full for the people I support. 136 00:13:30.050 --> 00:13:39.709 Polly Hearsey: Yeah, that resonates in the business. Like, we're human book. I ask people to be assumption busters. 137 00:13:39.780 --> 00:14:05.429 Sarah Santacroce: Question all your assumptions that you have about business and social media and marketing, how it should be done, and then do it differently, like. I am so so tired of, you know, going on social media and looking what's out there, and everything is the same. It's like I was trying to break my brain about how to do this book launch, but do it differently. 138 00:14:05.430 --> 00:14:12.980 Sarah Santacroce: and not just follow the same copy and same structure that everybody else is doing. And so I think that's 139 00:14:13.010 --> 00:14:21.660 Sarah Santacroce: yeah. That's part of it. Like, how do we want to do this in a in a more human, engaging way, and not just be about. 140 00:14:22.010 --> 00:14:50.709 Sarah Santacroce: Well, let's just take this example. Not just be about a best selling author on Amazon, or, you know, getting a thousand reviews. What we're really doing is hustling for Bezos, who's taking all the benefit. And and we are just working like slaves to get those reviews. So like, question, all of these things that we have just bought as well. This is just how it is, and this is just how it works. 141 00:14:51.160 --> 00:14:55.430 Polly Hearsey: There is an assumption there, isn't it, that you don't have the power to change that. 142 00:14:55.430 --> 00:14:55.950 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. 143 00:14:55.950 --> 00:15:05.900 Polly Hearsey: And that that's something I say all the time is like, don't underestimate your power. If you think about all of the new trends that happen. Someone started them somewhere. 144 00:15:06.355 --> 00:15:06.810 Sarah Santacroce: Yes. 145 00:15:06.810 --> 00:15:11.759 Polly Hearsey: So are you going to be a sheep, or are you going to be a leader? And that? And 146 00:15:11.890 --> 00:15:19.130 Polly Hearsey: when I talk about leadership, I know people sort of tend to go. It's not me. I'm not a leader because we have some really toxic 147 00:15:19.250 --> 00:15:20.250 Polly Hearsey: role models for. 148 00:15:20.250 --> 00:15:21.380 Sarah Santacroce: Leadership. 149 00:15:21.380 --> 00:15:24.390 Polly Hearsey: But there are different leaders coming. 150 00:15:24.390 --> 00:15:24.860 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 151 00:15:24.860 --> 00:15:28.660 Polly Hearsey: Quiet leaders, people who lead from the middle. And 152 00:15:28.980 --> 00:15:32.650 Polly Hearsey: you can have, you can create different ways of doing it. 153 00:15:33.556 --> 00:15:40.280 Polly Hearsey: And it doesn't have to be this sort of like standard standard approach. 154 00:15:40.390 --> 00:15:50.130 Polly Hearsey: And, in fact, the more subtle you are, the more creative you are, the more you're likely to be received because you're thinking, oh, hang on a second. 155 00:15:50.350 --> 00:15:55.519 Polly Hearsey: I didn't think I was being sold to like that. So I did in the program I did recently. 156 00:15:55.730 --> 00:16:03.689 Polly Hearsey: I set them all a task to produce a piece of content based on sort of understanding the the energetics of their business. 157 00:16:04.460 --> 00:16:08.829 Polly Hearsey: and they they produce the most extraordinary things. 158 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:16.519 Polly Hearsey: And I asked them to share it because I wanted them to see the difference in reaction. 159 00:16:16.690 --> 00:16:20.879 Polly Hearsey: So you might get less of a reaction. But it'll be a deeper reaction. 160 00:16:20.880 --> 00:16:21.310 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 161 00:16:21.310 --> 00:16:30.949 Polly Hearsey: And so they got instant responses from people going. This spoke to me so deeply, and I asked them afterwards, said, Did you feel like you were selling. 162 00:16:31.070 --> 00:16:34.680 Polly Hearsey: and they said no, didn't feel like saying, but you were 163 00:16:35.190 --> 00:16:39.319 Polly Hearsey: still putting it on the table for people and people weren't feeling like they were being sold to. 164 00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:40.020 Sarah Santacroce: Right. 165 00:16:40.020 --> 00:16:46.110 Polly Hearsey: That's rebellious. That is the height of rebellion in a world that's all about. You've got to have conversions. 166 00:16:46.110 --> 00:16:50.020 Sarah Santacroce: Right? Yeah. So so do you feel like, that's 167 00:16:51.150 --> 00:16:57.769 Sarah Santacroce: right. Now, it feels like we're the outsiders. Still right? Do you think that's gonna Flip where. 168 00:16:57.770 --> 00:16:59.919 Polly Hearsey: I think it already has. 169 00:16:59.920 --> 00:17:02.010 Sarah Santacroce: It already has. Hmm. 170 00:17:02.010 --> 00:17:13.869 Polly Hearsey: But I don't think that some people are even aware I mean the last people to know that the change has happened to the people at the top. If you sort of mean, I think it has already changed, because 171 00:17:15.270 --> 00:17:29.110 Polly Hearsey: I mean, I just look at what people are talking about and just go. I've been saying that for 10 years. It's like slightly between gritted teeth. Which? But actually going? Well, if if everybody is now openly talking about that. 172 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:33.509 Polly Hearsey: Then then a change has already happened. 173 00:17:34.540 --> 00:17:35.489 Sarah Santacroce: But I still. 174 00:17:35.490 --> 00:17:38.280 Polly Hearsey: Don't think that people know how to respond to it. 175 00:17:38.280 --> 00:17:42.829 Sarah Santacroce: Okay, yeah. Because what I see is like, when you talk to people 176 00:17:43.180 --> 00:17:46.700 Sarah Santacroce: they are like, yes, agreeing, you know, nodding their heads. 177 00:17:46.890 --> 00:17:49.670 Sarah Santacroce: But then when you see what they're posting. 178 00:17:49.790 --> 00:17:58.500 Sarah Santacroce: they're still adhering to the old rules, maybe because they don't. They don't have the new role models. They don't. 179 00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:14.359 Polly Hearsey: Have the alternative. So that's what that's what you and I are doing. We're providing them with the alternative. So we have to be the walking role models. We have to walk the talk and do it differently. And and that means we also have to be the experimenters. We have to fail a lot. 180 00:18:14.360 --> 00:18:17.720 Sarah Santacroce: Yes. Talk to me about that. Yeah. 181 00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:38.330 Polly Hearsey: And so that brings it. That's an interesting one, because it brings a degree of transparency about the fact that not all business efforts are successful. So this whole narrative that we've all come through in the last 4 years of this instant overnight success. Once I found out how to do XY. Or Z, because it was the missing piece. 182 00:18:38.330 --> 00:18:39.560 Sarah Santacroce: A magic pill. 183 00:18:39.560 --> 00:18:44.450 Polly Hearsey: The magic flipping wand and pill. Yes, it's that doesn't exist. 184 00:18:45.110 --> 00:18:49.029 Polly Hearsey: We we demonstrate that that doesn't exist. 185 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:52.969 Polly Hearsey: and that actually, the real magic comes from 186 00:18:54.130 --> 00:18:56.910 Polly Hearsey: giving yourself permission to be creative. 187 00:18:56.910 --> 00:18:57.585 Sarah Santacroce: Right. 188 00:18:58.260 --> 00:19:10.650 Polly Hearsey: So that that has been challenging sort of like. Oh, right, I have to have a signature program and a signature talk, and I have to have a lead in, and I have to have an automation, and I have to have a welcome. All of these pieces 189 00:19:10.930 --> 00:19:15.639 Polly Hearsey: coming back to being assumption Busters. Why the hell do you actually need them? 190 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:15.970 Sarah Santacroce: Nice. 191 00:19:15.970 --> 00:19:20.860 Polly Hearsey: Seriously. Why do you need them? Do you have to have that? You can have something that is paid? 192 00:19:21.190 --> 00:19:25.380 Polly Hearsey: And here's the interesting thing in terms of the buyer behaviours. 193 00:19:25.580 --> 00:19:32.680 Polly Hearsey: People are more likely to give you $5 $10 for something. 194 00:19:33.270 --> 00:19:37.379 Polly Hearsey: and then do something with it than they are to take a freebie. 195 00:19:37.620 --> 00:19:38.219 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm, 196 00:19:38.820 --> 00:19:41.449 Polly Hearsey: So why do you have to produce any free content. 197 00:19:41.450 --> 00:19:42.260 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm! 198 00:19:42.980 --> 00:20:07.109 Sarah Santacroce: That's interesting. I was just thinking about my workbook that goes together with the with the book, and in the 2 previous books I just had it as a free download, and it felt good until I, you know, started to realize. Well, I want to know who's working on these books, and like, you know, and so I was like, well, I'll just add it as a donation. 199 00:20:07.220 --> 00:20:12.380 Polly Hearsey: So that they can give. You know, however much they want, and. 200 00:20:12.670 --> 00:20:22.449 Sarah Santacroce: And I think that's when money feels good, if it's like, yes, I want to, you know, earn something for that. I've put a lot of effort and hours into it. 201 00:20:22.630 --> 00:20:34.440 Sarah Santacroce: But I understand your situation might be different, and you know, just kind of like putting it out there and explaining. I think a lot of what we're doing is explaining how things are. 202 00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:38.810 Sarah Santacroce: so that there is that transparency because. 203 00:20:38.810 --> 00:20:39.190 Polly Hearsey: Yeah. 204 00:20:39.190 --> 00:20:41.150 Sarah Santacroce: People are. So 205 00:20:42.280 --> 00:21:00.709 Sarah Santacroce: you know, everything was so hidden and and opaque that yeah, it just needs that time now to make everything super clear. And yes, that starts with affiliate links. But it also, you know. We talked about AI in our community. It's like, well. 206 00:21:00.710 --> 00:21:17.480 Sarah Santacroce: say, when you're using AI and make that clear. So yeah, all these different things that we do to help people in that transition so that they can gain trust again because they lost all the trust in any kind of message. 207 00:21:18.020 --> 00:21:25.629 Polly Hearsey: Yeah. But I mean coming back to sort of like, your original point of opening this this bit was, you've got to work with the tools that you've got. 208 00:21:25.630 --> 00:21:26.000 Sarah Santacroce: Right. 209 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:31.049 Polly Hearsey: At your disposal right now, but it doesn't mean you have to work with them in the standard ways. 210 00:21:31.310 --> 00:21:31.730 Sarah Santacroce: Right. 211 00:21:31.730 --> 00:21:39.180 Polly Hearsey: So you can rethink those right now and think well, how can I do it? So you know some of the examples I gave in the Newsletter you referenced were. 212 00:21:39.600 --> 00:21:43.190 Polly Hearsey: why have a free substack? Why not just have a paid one? 213 00:21:43.540 --> 00:21:47.950 Polly Hearsey: You know you can use notes, or whatever to sort of like promote it. 214 00:21:48.060 --> 00:21:53.070 Polly Hearsey: You don't have to have a free one. You don't have to run one-to-one mentoring. 215 00:21:53.480 --> 00:22:11.460 Polly Hearsey: But bear in mind that the market doesn't want large groups. So how do you do that? How do you maximize that you can get really creative with the tools that you have and the technology that you have, but you can use it in a different way. So forget about the algorithms on Facebook 216 00:22:11.760 --> 00:22:24.439 Polly Hearsey: and do what feels good to you because it can guarantee that if you do what feels good to you, people will find it and engage with it, and then you'll actually be part of resetting the algorithm. Then, you know, in the short term. So 217 00:22:24.630 --> 00:22:29.929 Polly Hearsey: it it's think, stop stop thinking that you have to operate within the rules. 218 00:22:31.150 --> 00:22:40.199 Polly Hearsey: And my favorite, my favorite tool for business development is blank sheet of paper. What would you create if you didn't have any rules. 219 00:22:40.620 --> 00:22:44.659 Sarah Santacroce: What feels good, and then you might say, Oh, you know what. 220 00:22:45.810 --> 00:22:49.590 Polly Hearsey: That program was. And I did this myself this year. That program I was thinking of running. 221 00:22:49.890 --> 00:22:51.849 Polly Hearsey: I'm going to do it as pay what you want. 222 00:22:52.090 --> 00:22:52.770 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 223 00:22:52.770 --> 00:22:53.700 Polly Hearsey: Why not? 224 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:59.559 Sarah Santacroce: I mean, that's something you can do. Do not do that if you are dependent on the income. 225 00:22:59.870 --> 00:23:01.100 Sarah Santacroce: Right? Of course. 226 00:23:01.100 --> 00:23:02.940 Polly Hearsey: You've got the flexibility. 227 00:23:03.090 --> 00:23:08.499 Polly Hearsey: Why not see how it lands? See what people give, and people will give a whole spectrum. 228 00:23:09.210 --> 00:23:19.280 Polly Hearsey: You know, and it depends on whether or not they know you, whether or not they know the value of it. What their financial situation is, it makes it more accessible, and that honesty of accessibility 229 00:23:19.770 --> 00:23:23.759 Polly Hearsey: changes the relationship. So have your blank piece of paper. 230 00:23:23.890 --> 00:23:25.150 Polly Hearsey: Think what what can I do? 231 00:23:25.150 --> 00:23:45.379 Sarah Santacroce: I guess it's not easy, like we've been in entrepreneurship for a while, right? And we know that we are in charge. We make all the decisions in our business. But for new entrepreneurs I can. I can totally understand the overwhelm. It would be much easier to have, you know, a 7 step process on how this works. 232 00:23:45.380 --> 00:23:45.710 Polly Hearsey: I mean. 233 00:23:45.710 --> 00:23:47.460 Sarah Santacroce: That's not the time we're in. 234 00:23:47.660 --> 00:24:04.000 Polly Hearsey: No. And the thing is that there's there's 2 groups of people that I see at the moment. There's the new entrepreneurs who are actually basically in a frozen state, because they know that they don't want to proceed down the normal route, but they don't know what else to do. So they do dabble with it, and it burns them, you know. 235 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:04.899 Polly Hearsey: it really hurts. Yeah. 236 00:24:04.900 --> 00:24:10.099 Polly Hearsey: Then there's a group of people who've been through that, and they've got an established business, but 237 00:24:10.750 --> 00:24:12.990 Polly Hearsey: that has burnt them out completely. 238 00:24:12.990 --> 00:24:13.410 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. 239 00:24:13.410 --> 00:24:17.300 Polly Hearsey: And they're at the point of hitting hitting the big red button to explode everything. 240 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:23.480 Polly Hearsey: So yeah, so if you're a new entrepreneur, it's about finding 241 00:24:23.910 --> 00:24:28.899 Polly Hearsey: people who inspire you, and that doesn't have to just be in the business world, you know, if 242 00:24:28.900 --> 00:24:29.490 Polly Hearsey: you know how to. 243 00:24:29.490 --> 00:24:39.129 Polly Hearsey: How do I start my business. How is someone approaching that I've got? A dear friend who has such a gentle approach to her? Instagram? 244 00:24:39.470 --> 00:24:45.450 Polly Hearsey: It's just. It's just so gentle that you wouldn't necessarily know that it was selling. 245 00:24:45.830 --> 00:24:50.090 Polly Hearsey: you know, because she just does it in her own way. 246 00:24:50.770 --> 00:24:52.540 Polly Hearsey: And so I think that's that's 247 00:24:53.740 --> 00:24:56.170 Polly Hearsey: that's the thing is that finding yourself 248 00:24:56.370 --> 00:25:01.550 Polly Hearsey: people who really sort of like just make you. That's a beautiful way to share something. 249 00:25:01.980 --> 00:25:19.189 Polly Hearsey: There's a photographer. I'm so glad that her stuff comes. I like it every day, so that makes sure that I see it on my feed every day. She's just on an Anti AI cruise and photography crusade. Sorry. And so she shares a photo that she's taken every single day, and it's just like. 250 00:25:19.760 --> 00:25:26.370 Polly Hearsey: Oh, my God! She never mentions that you can go and buy this photos from her or anything. It's just. It's so gentle and it's so inspiring 251 00:25:27.540 --> 00:25:28.630 Polly Hearsey: that 252 00:25:29.030 --> 00:25:36.700 Polly Hearsey: it's about the energy that you feel. You think I wanna I want to hold that energy when I'm out there in my business. How would I do that. 253 00:25:36.930 --> 00:25:38.240 Sarah Santacroce: Just. 254 00:25:38.540 --> 00:25:40.170 Polly Hearsey: Throw out the rule book. 255 00:25:40.330 --> 00:25:52.920 Polly Hearsey: throw out all of the reference points of all the people who are telling you exactly how to do it, because that is a very toxic narrative to have in your head really, really toxic. It will keep you stuck. 256 00:25:53.250 --> 00:25:53.960 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm! 257 00:25:55.030 --> 00:26:07.340 Sarah Santacroce: I want to switch to the future now, and maybe hear from you 1st how you envision your work and life in 5 years can't go. 258 00:26:07.340 --> 00:26:07.670 Polly Hearsey: Okay. 259 00:26:07.670 --> 00:26:11.580 Sarah Santacroce: That right now is like, Oh, 5 years already feels really far. 260 00:26:11.580 --> 00:26:14.220 Sarah Santacroce: No, I'm not entirely sure I could get to 5. 261 00:26:15.130 --> 00:26:16.457 Polly Hearsey: To be honest. 262 00:26:17.370 --> 00:26:27.039 Polly Hearsey: okay, I mean, where I see business going is this complete transition? Because we're in a space where we simply cannot continue 263 00:26:27.460 --> 00:26:40.000 Polly Hearsey: down the path that we're on. It is not sustainable from a human point of view, it is not sustainable from an environmental point of view, and it's not even sustainable from the economic point of view. But that is not necessarily being understood. 264 00:26:40.350 --> 00:26:41.450 Polly Hearsey: So 265 00:26:41.800 --> 00:26:55.900 Polly Hearsey: I don't know if you've seen it. But the Uk government has just actually started talking about, how are they going to brighten clouds to reflect more sun? And how are they going to geoengineer the weather that they've actually provided grants for this research. You just go. 266 00:26:57.180 --> 00:27:07.749 Polly Hearsey: This is classic economic model. You just knew it was going to come. People are going to be trying to find. How can they make money out of solving the crisis? 267 00:27:07.750 --> 00:27:08.660 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 268 00:27:08.660 --> 00:27:10.010 Polly Hearsey: Here's the problem 269 00:27:10.740 --> 00:27:31.439 Polly Hearsey: that they're not looking at, or the solution that they're not looking at, and that is that the problems are solved by doing it in a completely different way. We cannot continue to use the economic model that we've got. So in terms of climate change, if we just actually poured all of our resources into restoring the soil, we would make a massive difference in a couple of years. 270 00:27:31.610 --> 00:27:33.210 Polly Hearsey: Huge difference. 271 00:27:33.590 --> 00:27:39.950 Polly Hearsey: And it's not about planting forests and forests and forests. It's about looking at the soil, because that's where most of the carbon goes. 272 00:27:40.550 --> 00:27:48.899 Polly Hearsey: So we have to. So to me the future of business is about returning it, returning the power to the people. 273 00:27:50.100 --> 00:27:57.809 Polly Hearsey: and that starts with believing in yourself and believing in the fact that you have a valid and valuable role in the world 274 00:27:58.100 --> 00:28:03.979 Polly Hearsey: which has been so severely eroded by the societies that we've set up. 275 00:28:05.120 --> 00:28:11.510 Polly Hearsey: So where do I think business is going? I think business is going into a much more diverse 276 00:28:12.750 --> 00:28:21.839 Polly Hearsey: creative process. When I say creative, I don't just mean everyone's going to go into the creative arts. I mean that it's about, who am I as a person? And what do I want to offer the world? 277 00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:28.549 Polly Hearsey: So it's going to become more diverse. It's going to become more creative? And ultimately 278 00:28:30.150 --> 00:28:37.099 Polly Hearsey: is this 5? Is it 10? Is it 20 years down the line? They business is actually going to be part, become part of the ecosystem. 279 00:28:37.610 --> 00:28:41.469 Polly Hearsey: Instead of being in an extractive mode, the economic 280 00:28:41.950 --> 00:28:47.990 Polly Hearsey: norms will have been reshaped. So that actually, we're in a collaborative mode. 281 00:28:49.740 --> 00:29:00.070 Polly Hearsey: That's complex, because there's a whole web of energies that are, you know, they've got existing pathways that is very hard to change, but that, to me is 282 00:29:01.290 --> 00:29:05.470 Polly Hearsey: the higher sort of philosophical philosophical philosopher. 283 00:29:05.650 --> 00:29:10.680 Polly Hearsey: Philosophical direction of travel. 284 00:29:10.940 --> 00:29:11.800 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 285 00:29:11.800 --> 00:29:18.640 Polly Hearsey: Because it's about restoring agency. It's about restoring individual power and restructuring society. 286 00:29:19.650 --> 00:29:21.460 Polly Hearsey: So that's not a 5 year thing. 287 00:29:21.750 --> 00:29:28.589 Polly Hearsey: but in 5 years time I think the expectations of businesses will be completely different. 288 00:29:29.030 --> 00:29:29.850 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. 289 00:29:30.750 --> 00:29:31.520 Polly Hearsey: How about you? 290 00:29:31.520 --> 00:29:32.616 Sarah Santacroce: I like that vision. 291 00:29:33.521 --> 00:29:38.240 Sarah Santacroce: I just recently finished reading a book called Stellar, where 292 00:29:38.570 --> 00:29:41.419 Sarah Santacroce: the vision is that we have 293 00:29:41.600 --> 00:29:44.910 Sarah Santacroce: free energy that comes from the sun and the wind. 294 00:29:46.010 --> 00:29:54.810 Sarah Santacroce: and that then changes everything, because once we have free energy that is not extractive, but is regenerative. 295 00:29:55.700 --> 00:29:59.619 Sarah Santacroce: Well, the humans, in a way, it's kind of like you can just relax 296 00:29:59.910 --> 00:30:08.420 Sarah Santacroce: because there is not that need anymore to constantly produce. And, you know, create 297 00:30:08.990 --> 00:30:23.699 Sarah Santacroce: money to pay energy which then creates more crap. And you know, it's like this whole cycle. And so, yeah, I think I think it starts with with, like, you say, a complete systems change. 298 00:30:24.510 --> 00:30:36.330 Sarah Santacroce: I know already what we're already seeing is people don't want to work in in big businesses anymore, where it's just about, you know, climbing the ladder, and 299 00:30:36.430 --> 00:30:53.540 Sarah Santacroce: of course yes, there will. It'll be, I think, for a while there will be 2 worlds, 2 narratives. But eventually yeah, that that will change. And I think, actually like you, I think the power comes from the people. 300 00:30:53.650 --> 00:31:08.590 Sarah Santacroce: And so it's going to be these new leaders with innovative ideas. And yes, technology will help. But it will be with good intentions that we're using these technologies that are available. 301 00:31:08.850 --> 00:31:16.169 Sarah Santacroce: And I think the one the countries, if you think, from a country orientation? I think it's the small countries. 302 00:31:16.320 --> 00:31:21.460 Sarah Santacroce: probably from the global South that will be able to implement this the fastest. 303 00:31:21.750 --> 00:31:22.080 Polly Hearsey: Yeah. 304 00:31:22.080 --> 00:31:26.600 Sarah Santacroce: Because there's not that level of bureaucracy that we have in other countries. 305 00:31:26.600 --> 00:31:43.800 Polly Hearsey: Yeah. And I think that is a really interesting point, because we have these big institutions, you know, the bigger, the more established the economies of a particular country, the more we have these institutions, and so the power is controlled through the institutions. 306 00:31:43.800 --> 00:31:44.150 Sarah Santacroce: Exactly. 307 00:31:44.150 --> 00:31:56.420 Polly Hearsey: What's going to happen when we have more and more people coming into entrepreneurship, more and more people sort of choosing different pathways for their business for their careers, which not necessarily about owning a business 308 00:31:56.700 --> 00:32:01.120 Polly Hearsey: is, you diversify the the ground. 309 00:32:01.340 --> 00:32:08.020 Polly Hearsey: You change people's behavior in terms of how they engage with the businesses that they need in order to live. 310 00:32:08.380 --> 00:32:13.260 Polly Hearsey: and then, all of a sudden, there is nothing underneath those institutions. 311 00:32:13.890 --> 00:32:16.730 Polly Hearsey: and which means that governments don't have the power 312 00:32:17.420 --> 00:32:22.169 Polly Hearsey: to direct things anymore. So it's a very sudden collapse. 313 00:32:22.770 --> 00:32:28.960 Polly Hearsey: But it takes a long time coming, and it takes a lot of belief. So you know, going back to Martha Beck's pyramid in the pool 314 00:32:29.310 --> 00:32:33.019 Polly Hearsey: idea of, you know the changes created from the ground up. 315 00:32:33.660 --> 00:32:38.980 Polly Hearsey: We have to get across the base and work our way up slowly. 316 00:32:39.230 --> 00:33:01.219 Polly Hearsey: So for you and me because we we have to navigate. So you know, probably the conversations we were having with people, and what people were ready to hear 10 years ago, 5 years ago. That's changed. People are ready to hear something different now. So we have to keep advancing the conversation because it moves the the change up a little bit, because already, you know. 317 00:33:01.330 --> 00:33:06.859 Polly Hearsey: I see this all the time. It's like the the ground level where I might have started being, you know 318 00:33:07.340 --> 00:33:09.100 Polly Hearsey: 8 years ago, or whatever. 319 00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:15.739 Polly Hearsey: There's plenty of people there now saying exactly what I was saying back then, so I need to advance the conversation. 320 00:33:15.740 --> 00:33:22.630 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, yeah, that's that's really good. And it reminds me also, when I shortened the the program. 321 00:33:22.770 --> 00:33:34.549 Sarah Santacroce: i 1 of the points I explained in my newsletter, I said. I can with all integrity do that because I feel like I'm picking people up at an advanced, more advanced level. 322 00:33:34.550 --> 00:33:35.150 Polly Hearsey: Yeah. 323 00:33:35.150 --> 00:33:46.970 Sarah Santacroce: Like when I started in 2019, I had to 1st explain, well, what is this? Why are we doing this? And now people are like, sign me up. Yeah, I want to do humane marketing. 324 00:33:46.970 --> 00:33:47.959 Polly Hearsey: The assumptions have already. 325 00:33:48.470 --> 00:33:49.080 Polly Hearsey: Is it. 326 00:33:49.080 --> 00:33:50.020 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, exactly. 327 00:33:50.020 --> 00:34:00.930 Polly Hearsey: People have done the work which they hadn't done. So this is one of the reasons that this year I've been focusing a lot on what I call states of being and understanding those states of being of your audience. 328 00:34:00.930 --> 00:34:01.470 Sarah Santacroce: Because. 329 00:34:01.470 --> 00:34:12.089 Polly Hearsey: There are some who are still need to have it explained, and there are some who are in the process of getting ready, and there are a whole lot lot more people who are ready to do the work 330 00:34:12.090 --> 00:34:12.480 Polly Hearsey: if you talk 331 00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:18.019 Polly Hearsey: the right language to them. So you have to understand where they're at. You also have to understand what the role of your business is. 332 00:34:18.199 --> 00:34:28.780 Polly Hearsey: So because there are educator businesses who have a really important role to play in coming back to. I was saying to you before we started recording, but ecosystems of change. 333 00:34:28.969 --> 00:34:36.889 Polly Hearsey: you have to have people who are educators because it's like. It's asking people to open up and to do that assumption busting. 334 00:34:37.219 --> 00:34:41.320 Polly Hearsey: But you have to have the people who inspire different ways, and you and I fall into that category. 335 00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:43.419 Polly Hearsey: But we also have to have the people who 336 00:34:43.670 --> 00:34:47.609 Polly Hearsey: draw people together, and the people who focus on the actual mechanics of. 337 00:34:47.610 --> 00:34:48.010 Sarah Santacroce: Create. 338 00:34:48.010 --> 00:35:04.489 Polly Hearsey: The new. So we need all of these things, and everybody's business has a different role to play in that cycle. So we need to understand that. But you and I, we fall into that inspiration category. We we do show people how to do it. 339 00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:11.349 Polly Hearsey: But really, our focus is on saying, you want to go. Are you ready to go? Let's go because 340 00:35:11.750 --> 00:35:14.719 Polly Hearsey: you have the answers, and I can show you how to access them. 341 00:35:14.720 --> 00:35:15.180 Sarah Santacroce: That's kind. 342 00:35:15.180 --> 00:35:20.290 Polly Hearsey: What we do. So it's it's the conversation has changed. 343 00:35:20.290 --> 00:35:21.609 Polly Hearsey: Hmm, yeah. 344 00:35:21.610 --> 00:35:24.859 Polly Hearsey: I spent years thinking I am screaming into the void. 345 00:35:25.260 --> 00:35:37.459 Sarah Santacroce: Yes, yeah, in 2,018 that that was my or you know already before. But it's like when I put the 1st book out. It's like crickets, you know. Nobody was. 346 00:35:37.460 --> 00:35:39.870 Polly Hearsey: The collective consciousness was not ready to receive. 347 00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:41.010 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. 348 00:35:41.010 --> 00:35:47.379 Polly Hearsey: But the simple act. Here's the thing that I think people must remember the fact that you put that out there 349 00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:49.170 Polly Hearsey: changed 350 00:35:49.680 --> 00:36:06.240 Polly Hearsey: the playing field. It doesn't matter that there were crickets. You change the playing field, so you made it more possible for that conversation to happen, and the words that you put out there. Then I bet they're being reflected back to you now the things that you see other people saying you're going. Oh, hang on a second. I said that. 351 00:36:06.410 --> 00:36:07.929 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. And that's good, you know. 352 00:36:08.181 --> 00:36:09.690 Polly Hearsey: That's what we do it for. 353 00:36:09.690 --> 00:36:11.700 Sarah Santacroce: That's that's what we're here for. Yeah. 354 00:36:11.780 --> 00:36:18.980 Polly Hearsey: So. So we have to remember that even if we get crickets, there's a long term thing. And I say this a lot. 355 00:36:19.240 --> 00:36:25.650 Polly Hearsey: We have been trained to think that there is a direct correlation between the actions that we take and the responses that we get. So 356 00:36:26.060 --> 00:36:28.730 Polly Hearsey: you know, I I put this out, and I've got a bit of hair. 357 00:36:28.840 --> 00:36:33.440 Polly Hearsey: and I put this post out. I get a sale. 358 00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:35.140 Sarah Santacroce: I get sales. Yeah. 359 00:36:35.140 --> 00:36:37.835 Polly Hearsey: Doesn't work like that. And I was 360 00:36:38.500 --> 00:36:51.149 Polly Hearsey: an exercise, I say to people to put put something that you you genuinely believe about, and you believe in and put it out there, and you might get crickets. But then just open your awareness. 360, 361 00:36:51.500 --> 00:37:00.129 Polly Hearsey: and see where the response comes from. Because there you are. You're assuming there's a direct correlation between what I'm saying and the person that I'm talking to. 362 00:37:00.750 --> 00:37:08.009 Polly Hearsey: But actually, what you're doing is putting an energy out into the world. And then, if you're aware of it, some behind you, you're going to get a response. 363 00:37:08.630 --> 00:37:09.000 Sarah Santacroce: So, yeah. 364 00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:14.680 Polly Hearsey: So stop thinking. That's the other thing that we stop thinking about this direct causation. 365 00:37:15.469 --> 00:37:22.280 Polly Hearsey: It isn't a direct causation, it is. It is about the energy we put out, and then the energy that we receive. 366 00:37:23.010 --> 00:37:31.509 Sarah Santacroce: And so the problem with that is that we're being taught well, if you put something out there and nobody responds, then. 367 00:37:31.510 --> 00:37:32.000 Polly Hearsey: Failed. 368 00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:48.830 Sarah Santacroce: It's failed, and, you know, move on to the next thing. And meanwhile there's all this, you know, movement going on underneath the surface that you're not seeing. And so you know, people ask next year, what about your program? You're not doing that anymore. So. 369 00:37:48.830 --> 00:37:55.252 Polly Hearsey: So, and there there's if you agrees. The the 370 00:37:56.350 --> 00:37:58.200 Polly Hearsey: An analogy I use 371 00:37:58.520 --> 00:38:04.899 Polly Hearsey: is that if you if you look particularly spring now, if you look at this, there's a riot of growth going on. 372 00:38:05.260 --> 00:38:11.909 Polly Hearsey: Where does that growth start? It starts in the soil. Can you see it? No. 373 00:38:11.910 --> 00:38:12.630 Sarah Santacroce: No. 374 00:38:12.840 --> 00:38:14.010 Polly Hearsey: It's happening. 375 00:38:14.420 --> 00:38:22.450 Polly Hearsey: So we have. So there's a lot of trust. So and you and I have been through that. We've been through this sort of thing, feeling like we're talking 376 00:38:22.650 --> 00:38:29.639 Polly Hearsey: to nothing, you know, we're not getting a response. But actually, we've just been fertilizing the ground. 377 00:38:30.290 --> 00:38:30.940 Sarah Santacroce: No. 378 00:38:31.195 --> 00:38:33.490 Polly Hearsey: But we have to keep on doing that because. 379 00:38:33.490 --> 00:38:34.420 Sarah Santacroce: Keep on doing that. 380 00:38:34.420 --> 00:38:43.040 Polly Hearsey: Our part, you know, there's a lot of people who will then come in and work that. But we for us, it's about setting the expectations. 381 00:38:43.040 --> 00:38:43.560 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 382 00:38:43.560 --> 00:38:49.709 Polly Hearsey: What does it actually mean? Because about probably about 4 years ago, I noticed this big shift 383 00:38:50.420 --> 00:39:04.969 Polly Hearsey: in the way that some of the really big businesses, you know, the multi 7 figure businesses were talking and the language that they were using. And then I looked at what they were doing, and they were doing exactly the same thing, but they shifted their language. 384 00:39:04.970 --> 00:39:05.390 Sarah Santacroce: And. 385 00:39:05.390 --> 00:39:19.930 Polly Hearsey: It's more than that. It's not about just shifting your language. It's about shifting your expectations. It's about upholding your values. It's about listening to yourself in a different way, and giving yourself a different set of permissions to do things. 386 00:39:20.570 --> 00:39:21.740 Polly Hearsey: So he's. 387 00:39:21.740 --> 00:39:29.169 Sarah Santacroce: And that's what you said at the beginning. It's like people can smell that a mile away, right when it's just lipstick on a pig. 388 00:39:29.450 --> 00:39:39.520 Polly Hearsey: And yeah, and your business. It's what happens behind the scenes in your business and beyond the public gaze. That is as important as what you put out there publicly. 389 00:39:40.175 --> 00:39:40.830 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. 390 00:39:40.830 --> 00:39:45.649 Polly Hearsey: There can be an absolute, you know, businesses that are car crash behind the scenes 391 00:39:46.620 --> 00:39:58.600 Polly Hearsey: that it helps no one. So you do the work on yourself, on how you hold your business, and how you conduct your business. You do that in order to build something that is resilient. 392 00:39:58.730 --> 00:40:05.230 Polly Hearsey: and that would be my. The one thing I would say to people is that if you want to have a business in the future. 393 00:40:05.530 --> 00:40:08.610 Polly Hearsey: you better then well, focus on your resilience. 394 00:40:08.610 --> 00:40:09.080 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm, okay. 395 00:40:09.080 --> 00:40:17.290 Polly Hearsey: I don't mean your economic resilience, I mean your energetic, your values-based resilience. Now. 396 00:40:17.290 --> 00:40:18.060 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 397 00:40:18.060 --> 00:40:18.540 Polly Hearsey: Cause it. 398 00:40:18.540 --> 00:40:22.309 Sarah Santacroce: I was just gonna ask you, kind of as a closing question, like. 399 00:40:22.420 --> 00:40:29.779 Sarah Santacroce: what kind of questions do you think leaders, entrepreneurs should ask themselves. 400 00:40:29.950 --> 00:40:34.648 Sarah Santacroce: either themselves or or about their business, just like what are the. 401 00:40:35.040 --> 00:40:41.589 Polly Hearsey: The number. One thing that I come, I tell people to do, and I and you cannot do it too many times. 402 00:40:42.100 --> 00:40:49.839 Polly Hearsey: You can do it every month if you want to, every week, if you want to, is, ask yourself what are my values, and how am I upholding them? 403 00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:50.510 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 404 00:40:50.510 --> 00:40:59.699 Polly Hearsey: And that means looking at the fine print of your terms and conditions as much as it means. How am I showing up. 405 00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:07.169 Polly Hearsey: Where is the integrity in that? Where is the integrity with my values? 406 00:41:07.740 --> 00:41:09.790 Polly Hearsey: Because your values come from within. 407 00:41:10.820 --> 00:41:16.449 Polly Hearsey: and the more that you are focused on your values, the more you are challenging and busting assumptions. 408 00:41:16.770 --> 00:41:23.830 Polly Hearsey: and the more you are opening up the landscape for your business to thrive in the future. 409 00:41:24.250 --> 00:41:25.060 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm! 410 00:41:25.420 --> 00:41:26.470 Sarah Santacroce: Beautiful. 411 00:41:26.950 --> 00:41:30.390 Sarah Santacroce: Well, I think we have a lot of hope for. 412 00:41:30.390 --> 00:41:30.860 Polly Hearsey: And do we do. 413 00:41:31.180 --> 00:41:38.011 Sarah Santacroce: Business of the future. I do. You do so. We'll just keep showing up. 414 00:41:38.500 --> 00:41:41.360 Polly Hearsey: I say, business has caused a lot of the problems. 415 00:41:41.510 --> 00:41:43.550 Polly Hearsey: It can also be the solution. 416 00:41:43.550 --> 00:41:46.469 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, yeah, I really believe that it's. 417 00:41:46.470 --> 00:41:46.950 Polly Hearsey: Yeah. 418 00:41:46.950 --> 00:41:52.739 Sarah Santacroce: It's not the institutions, it's not the governments. It's the humans behind the businesses. Right? 419 00:41:52.740 --> 00:41:54.450 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. Yep, yeah. 420 00:41:54.450 --> 00:41:56.510 Polly Hearsey: And that's going to be the thing that changes everything. 421 00:41:56.510 --> 00:41:57.450 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 422 00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:07.350 Sarah Santacroce: thank you, Polly, as always wonderful. Please do share where people can find out more about you, and sign up to your newsletter, etcetera. 423 00:42:07.350 --> 00:42:14.259 Polly Hearsey: Yeah, you can head over to my website, which is just polyhecy.co.uk, and and follow the breadcrumbs from there. 424 00:42:15.560 --> 00:42:19.259 Sarah Santacroce: Wonderful. Yeah. And let's let's do it again, sometime. 425 00:42:19.260 --> 00:42:20.250 Polly Hearsey: I'd love to. 426 00:42:20.756 --> 00:42:21.770 Sarah Santacroce: Thank you. 427 00:42:21.770 --> 00:42:22.370 Polly Hearsey: Thank you. 428 00:42:22.580 --> 00:42:23.240 Sarah Santacroce: Bye.  

In this new episode titled "Is Slow Business More Humane," we discover the world of slow business with Andy Mort, a Slow Business Coach, songwriter, and sound artist. This conversation challenges the prevalent "faster, more efficient" mentality in today's business world, offering a refreshing perspective on how entrepreneurs can incorporate spaciousness and human connection into their work. It's the first of a series ‘Sarah & Friends discussing Business Like We're Human topics' So in this first episode of the series of ‘Sarah & Friends discussing Business Like We're Human topics' we discussed: How Andy became a Slow Business Coach The relationship between inner peace, slowness, and its impact on clients and the community. The connection between spaciousness, innovation, and creativity in business. The contrast between the slow approach and the prevalent "faster, more efficient" mentality in business. The importance of human connection in business interactions, especially in the context of sales and client relationships. Practical first steps for entrepreneurs to incorporate more spaciousness in their life and business. and so much more -- Is Slow Business More Humane? 1 00:00:01.830 --> 00:00:07.590 Sarah Santacroce: Andy. It's so good to see you again and have you on the humane marketing podcast welcome back. 2 00:00:07.590 --> 00:00:12.940 Andy Mort: Thank you so much. It is lovely to be with you again, Sarah. I love talking to you so. 3 00:00:12.940 --> 00:00:13.320 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. 4 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:14.399 Andy Mort: About this? Yeah. 5 00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:24.780 Sarah Santacroce: We always have great and deep conversations, and so I couldn't think of a better person than you to talk about this concept of 6 00:00:24.930 --> 00:00:33.970 Sarah Santacroce: slowing things down, and the question whether a slow business is a humane business and what all of that involves. So 7 00:00:34.290 --> 00:00:52.720 Sarah Santacroce: it's good to have you here. Why don't you explain a little bit how you got into this concept of being a slow business coach? It's been a few years now. And yeah, how has this evolved for you? And how does it 8 00:00:52.930 --> 00:00:59.850 Sarah Santacroce: feel in in your business? And how do people react to it? So explain it a little bit. 9 00:00:59.850 --> 00:01:03.999 Andy Mort: Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, it's something that I didn't 10 00:01:04.129 --> 00:01:10.419 Andy Mort: necessarily set out to to do or to be. It's just something that has evolved really 11 00:01:11.190 --> 00:01:14.769 Andy Mort: over time of like working with people. And I've always worked with 12 00:01:15.230 --> 00:01:20.740 Andy Mort: introverted and highly sensitive people. So those who. 13 00:01:21.570 --> 00:01:28.660 Andy Mort: I guess, find the the pace of modern life, maybe a bit overstimulating at times. 14 00:01:28.840 --> 00:01:33.769 Andy Mort: And so there's been like this necessity of of slowness 15 00:01:34.390 --> 00:01:38.709 Andy Mort: for the sake of people's nervous systems. And you know, just being able to 16 00:01:39.370 --> 00:01:43.999 Andy Mort: focus and get clear on. You know what's important and what isn't, and all of that kind of thing. 17 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:50.250 Andy Mort: But also there's been this, I guess increasing awareness in me that this is really 18 00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:53.650 Andy Mort: bad for all of us, and this whole mentality of. 19 00:01:53.800 --> 00:02:00.690 Andy Mort: you know, move fast and break things which has come from this sort of tech world and 20 00:02:01.290 --> 00:02:08.120 Andy Mort: has a is an appropriate tool in many situations in that world. But it, it seems to have 21 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:16.460 Andy Mort: kind of permeated everything. And so there's this very reactive energy that I just feel in the world 22 00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:25.229 Andy Mort: around me. And that kind of comes into me. And it's in people. And this needs to be productive. And all of these words that you know you 23 00:02:25.490 --> 00:02:31.149 Andy Mort: obviously use a lot. And you're sort of rebelling against in many ways in what you do. 24 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:40.479 Andy Mort: yeah. And so I guess what I do is is help people identify, you know. Where is that energy 25 00:02:40.580 --> 00:02:45.230 Andy Mort: taking me away from what I want to be doing and who I am, and 26 00:02:45.550 --> 00:02:52.050 Andy Mort: the impact that I might want to have with my work or in my family in my relationship. 27 00:02:52.310 --> 00:02:59.669 Andy Mort: whatever it might be. And then to yeah, put into practice ways of 28 00:03:02.330 --> 00:03:06.270 Andy Mort: yeah, slowing, slowing down and making space 29 00:03:06.660 --> 00:03:08.639 Andy Mort: for the important things, and to 30 00:03:08.930 --> 00:03:20.069 Andy Mort: make space to do the things that matter more slowly as well. And this, yeah, this twist on the old productivity thing of like do more in less time. I think I love the idea of 31 00:03:21.230 --> 00:03:26.469 Andy Mort: doing doing less more slowly, because it allows you to go 32 00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:28.559 Andy Mort: deep. And it allows you to. 33 00:03:28.970 --> 00:03:30.519 Andy Mort: Yeah, get into the 34 00:03:30.870 --> 00:03:35.650 Andy Mort: the depths of it and the richness of it, and to do what what you feel 35 00:03:35.880 --> 00:03:38.300 Andy Mort: is important and that kind of thing. So. 36 00:03:38.690 --> 00:03:45.220 Andy Mort: Yes. So I have a community that yeah, my haven community is the real hub of of what I do. 37 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:48.900 Andy Mort: So yeah, kind of coaching and group. 38 00:03:49.440 --> 00:03:55.899 Andy Mort: I'd say workshops. It's not really workshops. It's more sort of spaces to gather and to explore together. 39 00:03:56.230 --> 00:04:00.200 Andy Mort: And yeah, everything kind of flows out from there. 40 00:04:01.200 --> 00:04:25.200 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, that's so good to hear, because it it means already that you're not just. You know, the crazy one who came up with this term, and people are like, what is he smoking? It really shows. No, there's people who resonate with that. And and you know they want to be in community with others that want to look at business more slowly. And 41 00:04:25.290 --> 00:04:31.209 Sarah Santacroce: I love what you said. It's it's not just slowing things down, but doing less 42 00:04:31.410 --> 00:04:49.130 Sarah Santacroce: and doing those things even more slowly. So it's really the doing. Less part, I guess, has to do with creating the spaciousness for other things as well. And that's kind of what I talk about in the business. Like we're human book. It's it's not just this. 43 00:04:49.960 --> 00:05:05.079 Sarah Santacroce: you know, creating spaciousness to then like back in the days, you know, the 4 h work week kind of approach where? Where? You then, just, you know, spend your money by sitting on a beach somewhere in the Philippines. 44 00:05:05.080 --> 00:05:23.559 Sarah Santacroce: It really is creating spaciousness to be more human, to have the time to reconnect with humans or with nature, or to become an activist, or, you know, like spaciousness outside of your business, so that 45 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:28.559 Sarah Santacroce: you can do the things a human wants to do and and find that 46 00:05:28.710 --> 00:05:39.420 Sarah Santacroce: I think almost like if we don't create that spaciousness, we don't remember what as humans, we could also do instead of just working. 47 00:05:39.420 --> 00:05:39.960 Andy Mort: Yeah. 48 00:05:39.960 --> 00:05:41.469 Sarah Santacroce: What does that bring up for you. 49 00:05:41.470 --> 00:05:44.960 Andy Mort: I mean, and I and I think what you 50 00:05:46.060 --> 00:05:59.559 Andy Mort: emphasize and do so well as well is is integrating that spaciousness and slowness into the into the model of how you do business. And I think that feels like you think about the 4 h work week. There's almost this separation. 51 00:06:00.675 --> 00:06:03.560 Andy Mort: Between the work you 52 00:06:03.810 --> 00:06:08.989 Andy Mort: like. Plough everything into this part of your life, so that then you can do this over here. 53 00:06:09.300 --> 00:06:09.970 Sarah Santacroce: Right. 54 00:06:09.970 --> 00:06:10.770 Andy Mort: And 55 00:06:10.910 --> 00:06:16.900 Andy Mort: while I think you know you, you obviously want space around work and not to be working all the time. 56 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:22.559 Andy Mort: Actually, there's something that you can bring into the work that you do do, and the business that you're building 57 00:06:22.810 --> 00:06:32.619 Andy Mort: that puts that spaciousness and the the approach of slowness and marketing like you're human into that thing itself as well. So that 58 00:06:32.780 --> 00:06:38.139 Andy Mort: there's a yeah, you're bringing the whole of you to the whole of what you do. 59 00:06:38.340 --> 00:06:41.300 Andy Mort: And so, yeah, that kind of when you were just saying that 60 00:06:42.010 --> 00:06:48.180 Andy Mort: kind of brought that up for me and and them the modelling of a different way of 61 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:52.750 Andy Mort: doing the business itself, and thinking about business, and thinking about what 62 00:06:53.460 --> 00:07:10.019 Andy Mort: what your business is enabling, both in terms of what you're maybe producing, or the service that you're offering, but also in the lives and the model that you're setting, and the example that you're setting to those who do business with you, and how that can become a contagious thing that 63 00:07:10.410 --> 00:07:14.340 Andy Mort: that spreads. And yeah, that sense of 64 00:07:15.110 --> 00:07:22.939 Andy Mort: of slowness or spaciousness or stillness that people might take away from an encounter with you. 65 00:07:23.180 --> 00:07:23.920 Sarah Santacroce: Hmm. 66 00:07:24.050 --> 00:07:39.149 Andy Mort: Then goes out into the world. And I think, as I was saying before, there's like that other energy that I feel very strongly at the moment where that sort of hustle grind culture like, and the 4 h work week, you know, do things. Really, it doesn't matter what you do, but just make money so that you can 67 00:07:39.330 --> 00:07:42.190 Andy Mort: then go off and do your own thing, or whatever 68 00:07:42.450 --> 00:07:46.950 Andy Mort: like that. That's a very palpable stress energy that 69 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:52.700 Andy Mort: I think also is contagious, and spreads and leaves us feeling a bit. 70 00:07:54.260 --> 00:07:56.789 Andy Mort: I don't know. Pulled in all sorts of different directions. 71 00:07:57.070 --> 00:08:00.589 Andy Mort: overwhelmed, burning out all of those things. 72 00:08:01.100 --> 00:08:02.000 Andy Mort: Yeah. 73 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:08.270 Sarah Santacroce: I think it's kind of part of the old business model where we are working ourselves. 74 00:08:09.150 --> 00:08:26.500 Sarah Santacroce: you know, to exhaustion, and we were working so hard, and we. And then we hear this idea of working less. And so we squeeze even more into maybe less time. And then, obviously, we're so exhausted that we then need 75 00:08:26.620 --> 00:08:44.709 Sarah Santacroce: that rest. But that's not what to me a business like we're human. Looks like it is like you said so. Well, building the slowness and the spaciousness into the business, so that I don't feel exhausted. And then. 76 00:08:44.890 --> 00:09:12.099 Sarah Santacroce: you know, just need to lie on the beach. I still want to be able to have the energy to use my time, that I created the space that I created for for other things, whether it be yes, to, you know, refill my own battery by being in nature, but also by giving back. I think that to me is an important part. Is 77 00:09:13.790 --> 00:09:21.190 Sarah Santacroce: we talked just before we started to recording. And and I said, like business as usual is. 78 00:09:21.320 --> 00:09:43.919 Sarah Santacroce: I'm so tired of that concept because it really is the time where business should not be as usual anymore. And we do have, you know, kind of this responsibility also as entrepreneurs to yeah, to find solutions to come up with creative ideas on how we can. 79 00:09:44.270 --> 00:09:53.710 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, make this world a better place for lack of better words. But that that's really what this is about. So I think. 80 00:09:53.900 --> 00:10:02.840 Sarah Santacroce: would you agree that the innovation and the creativity also needs that space? 81 00:10:02.990 --> 00:10:06.830 Sarah Santacroce: What have you seen with your community? What. 82 00:10:06.830 --> 00:10:12.990 Andy Mort: Yeah, absolutely. And I love making space for collaborative 83 00:10:13.250 --> 00:10:16.150 Andy Mort: innovation and creativity as well. And 84 00:10:16.500 --> 00:10:19.870 Andy Mort: seeing what emerges. So one of the things that we do is 85 00:10:20.030 --> 00:10:25.829 Andy Mort: what I call a phrase maze where we just take we have a monthly theme. 86 00:10:26.020 --> 00:10:31.399 Andy Mort: So this month we're recording this in February. Our monthly theme is confidence. It's a very, very broad 87 00:10:31.520 --> 00:10:35.270 Andy Mort: theme. And then can I break that down into 88 00:10:35.490 --> 00:10:42.319 Andy Mort: you know what? What are some phrases or idioms, or quotes or ideas associated with confidence that come to mind. 89 00:10:42.770 --> 00:10:49.610 Andy Mort: and then kind of take them, break them down a bit, try and play with them and talk about, you know. 90 00:10:49.740 --> 00:10:54.569 Andy Mort: Okay, what does that bring up for you that's going on in your life at the moment. And 91 00:10:55.390 --> 00:10:57.199 Andy Mort: those kinds of things. 92 00:10:57.670 --> 00:11:04.640 Andy Mort: And then how can we maybe play with this creatively? Is there a is there a poem in this? Is there some kind of 93 00:11:05.030 --> 00:11:08.749 Andy Mort: painting, or a song, or whatever that you could just 94 00:11:09.010 --> 00:11:14.230 Andy Mort: have a go with the yeah playing with experimenting with, and 95 00:11:14.770 --> 00:11:21.370 Andy Mort: both in the discussions that we have, and then the sort of follow up creative expression. 96 00:11:21.950 --> 00:11:24.310 Andy Mort: You just see things that you would never be able to 97 00:11:24.610 --> 00:11:31.649 Andy Mort: imagine coming up from the outset. And I love this sort of experimental approach to life in general, but like 98 00:11:31.970 --> 00:11:38.400 Andy Mort: trusting, trusting the hive, trusting the collaborative potential. 99 00:11:38.650 --> 00:11:44.150 Andy Mort: the and when you talk about, you know, solutions to issues and the importance of business 100 00:11:44.350 --> 00:11:52.930 Andy Mort: being involved in looking at the the wider picture of how the world is right now, and thinking, you know, what role do we play in 101 00:11:53.810 --> 00:11:56.750 Andy Mort: changing the direction that we're maybe moving in or 102 00:11:56.980 --> 00:11:59.360 Andy Mort: creating a better future, or whatever it is. 103 00:12:00.415 --> 00:12:05.030 Andy Mort: Actually, I think, collaboration working with 104 00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:15.319 Andy Mort: one another as partners, whatever that looks like, whether that's a business partnership or just socially doing stuff together 105 00:12:15.670 --> 00:12:20.640 Andy Mort: with a within values and with a vision, or whatever it is 106 00:12:21.170 --> 00:12:27.330 Andy Mort: that's so important. And again that turns business as usual on its head, because. 107 00:12:27.740 --> 00:12:35.409 Andy Mort: you know, seeing it won't mention who it is. But like the there's something going on at the moment that I'm looking into that 108 00:12:35.810 --> 00:12:42.010 Andy Mort: is a. It's this extraction that business people have to see 109 00:12:42.400 --> 00:12:53.360 Andy Mort: like the old way is seeing opportunities, being opportunistic and thinking, how can I capitalize on that and turn it back to me and make money from it? 110 00:12:54.118 --> 00:12:56.510 Andy Mort: Rather than how can I 111 00:12:56.870 --> 00:13:03.950 Andy Mort: be part of this movement. How can I, you know, contribute to this? What what does it need from me in order for this thing that I 112 00:13:04.060 --> 00:13:09.199 Andy Mort: connect with and believe in? Maybe it's an idea, or like a social movement, or whatever. 113 00:13:09.850 --> 00:13:13.749 Andy Mort: Yeah, what role can I take in that? That 114 00:13:14.050 --> 00:13:18.239 Andy Mort: makes me part of it rather than makes me possess it. 115 00:13:18.590 --> 00:13:25.070 Andy Mort: And I think that it's yeah, really important to start seeing business 116 00:13:25.430 --> 00:13:28.249 Andy Mort: through that eye through those eyes as well. 117 00:13:29.030 --> 00:13:30.040 Andy Mort: Yeah, if that. 118 00:13:30.400 --> 00:13:42.499 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, I'm so glad you brought up collaboration. And and this movement from we me to we that I mentioned in the in the book as well is kind of like. 119 00:13:43.610 --> 00:13:52.150 Sarah Santacroce: it's so aligned with slowing things down, because in order to collaborate, you do need to 120 00:13:52.460 --> 00:14:12.939 Sarah Santacroce: slow things down and actually let relationships develop right? Because the old way. And I'm definitely raising my hand here. The old way was affiliate marketing. That was like the big thing. And it was like, Oh, we are collaborating, but we weren't really collaborating, because we were just trying to 121 00:14:13.090 --> 00:14:29.440 Sarah Santacroce: tap into each other's reach to get more money for each of us, right? And and yeah, that's just that's just not human humane, whatever ethical even be. 122 00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:32.100 Sarah Santacroce: So in order to actually. 123 00:14:32.870 --> 00:14:41.870 Sarah Santacroce: yeah, create and nurture these relationships. Well, you need time. You, you know, an email exchange is not going to create 124 00:14:41.870 --> 00:15:05.360 Sarah Santacroce: relationship trust, based relationship. You need to invest the time in it. So that's another thing that is part of the business. But if you don't have the spaciousness to invest there, then it will always be transactional, and you will not actually be able to. 125 00:15:05.370 --> 00:15:06.310 Sarah Santacroce: you know. 126 00:15:06.350 --> 00:15:12.900 Sarah Santacroce: collaborate or create a movement or create the community because you don't have the time. You're always short on time. And you're always 127 00:15:12.950 --> 00:15:18.650 Sarah Santacroce: yeah struggling to create more transactions. Really. 128 00:15:18.900 --> 00:15:23.110 Andy Mort: I think it's such a good point. Yeah, that transactional. 129 00:15:23.680 --> 00:15:30.630 Andy Mort: because it is yet that affiliate model or the you work with people to combine 130 00:15:30.750 --> 00:15:34.540 Andy Mort: audiences or whatever it is. But yeah, ultimately, it's a 131 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:37.950 Andy Mort: I'll scratch your back. You scratch my back. And yeah. 132 00:15:38.300 --> 00:15:46.170 Andy Mort: you don't have time, as you say, for like relationships. And you know, anything really 133 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:50.990 Andy Mort: valuable at a human level in life takes time. 134 00:15:51.410 --> 00:15:57.700 Andy Mort: and it takes a lot of that liminal in between space that 135 00:15:58.280 --> 00:16:10.340 Andy Mort: is not controlled in the sense of being outcome, oriented or like. We've got to achieve this in the time that we are together. It's like, actually, you think about the most meaningful friendships 136 00:16:10.450 --> 00:16:14.979 Andy Mort: they're full of just time with and just time being. 137 00:16:15.140 --> 00:16:21.219 Andy Mort: And again, like some of these gatherings that we have. 138 00:16:22.470 --> 00:16:27.050 Andy Mort: it's and it takes a huge amount of I guess 139 00:16:27.350 --> 00:16:39.969 Andy Mort: faith in the process, or just allowing almost surrender. Just allowing things. Okay. Whatever is going to come out of this is going to come out of it, and I can't contrive it or control it from the outset. But I can trust that 140 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:41.020 Andy Mort: hike. 141 00:16:41.130 --> 00:16:46.740 Andy Mort: Whatever will be will be here, and where. The more I've experienced doing that. 142 00:16:47.030 --> 00:16:49.540 Andy Mort: the more surprised I've been, and the more 143 00:16:49.920 --> 00:16:52.789 Andy Mort: like interesting things have come out of 144 00:16:53.660 --> 00:16:59.940 Andy Mort: gatherings, or, you know, conversations, or whatever. It is really difficult to 145 00:17:00.300 --> 00:17:07.050 Andy Mort: to remember that like you're like, right, need an agenda need a structure. And and it's like. Yes, structure can help with 146 00:17:07.369 --> 00:17:11.249 Andy Mort: keeping things going to a certain degree. But it's like you need to know where 147 00:17:11.859 --> 00:17:17.089 Andy Mort: planning becomes over planning, and it actually suffocates what might come out of it. 148 00:17:18.280 --> 00:17:23.019 Sarah Santacroce: I talk about this new business intimacy, and that 149 00:17:23.180 --> 00:17:44.519 Sarah Santacroce: is that exactly what you're talking about is like, usually in business. We have this way of being, which is very task oriented like, even if we do collaborate. There's, you know, a way to collaborate the old way, which is like, Okay, here's the agenda. Here's what we need to do. It's all about the doing right instead of 150 00:17:44.590 --> 00:17:59.979 Sarah Santacroce: yeah, allowing the time to just be and get to know each other. And and and yeah, that takes courage. I think that's the word came up when you were speaking. I'm like it takes a lot of courage to. 151 00:18:00.390 --> 00:18:08.230 Sarah Santacroce: you know. Bring this new business intimacy where we're all wired to think. Well, business should be this way. 152 00:18:08.430 --> 00:18:30.530 Sarah Santacroce: Business should be transactional. Business should be professional business should be, you know, a certain way. And so all of a sudden, we come along. And we're like, we're, you know, gonna do things slowly and more relationship based. And and it's just like people are like, what what's going on here. But I think. 153 00:18:30.560 --> 00:18:51.979 Sarah Santacroce: I think, yeah, that's to me. That's that's a business like, we're human. That is like, we're actually being humans in our business. And it's also more humane to us, because then our business is just an extension of who we are, and as solopreneurs. Isn't that, isn't that what we want right. 154 00:18:51.980 --> 00:19:00.489 Andy Mort: So, and it speaks to. I always remember something that you said in the workshop that we did a while back, which was 155 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:04.339 Andy Mort: just because it works. It doesn't mean it works for you. 156 00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:08.120 Andy Mort: And I think that's something important 157 00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:16.709 Andy Mort: when maybe having conversations with people about like, why would you? Why would you set up your business like this? Or why would you approach your business like this? Because actually. 158 00:19:17.050 --> 00:19:22.989 Andy Mort: business as usual, or these old ways still work to some degree. Or there are these things that work 159 00:19:24.010 --> 00:19:32.409 Andy Mort: and actually putting in that bit. But it doesn't work for me. There's something about that that. Yeah, it doesn't fit who I am, or what I believe 160 00:19:32.800 --> 00:19:37.669 Andy Mort: a business should contribute or should be doing in the world. 161 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:41.469 Andy Mort: And so I love that little. It's a 162 00:19:41.660 --> 00:19:46.169 Andy Mort: an invitation to gentle rebelliousness. I think I see it as because. 163 00:19:46.360 --> 00:19:48.429 Andy Mort: yeah, it allows you to put yourself 164 00:19:48.940 --> 00:19:58.259 Andy Mort: and your own beliefs and your values and the things that matter to you at the heart of your business rather than being like. What are these strategies and tactics that everyone else is doing 165 00:19:58.370 --> 00:20:07.829 Andy Mort: that do maybe make a lot of money, or they make bring quick results, or whatever. So. But how do I feel, or how would I feel if I 166 00:20:08.260 --> 00:20:10.630 Andy Mort: achieved that in that way. And it's like. 167 00:20:10.630 --> 00:20:11.450 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. 168 00:20:11.450 --> 00:20:20.849 Andy Mort: And from past experience I feel a bit icky, and I feel a bit like Oh, that didn't doesn't feel good to have done it like that. 169 00:20:20.990 --> 00:20:26.139 Andy Mort: So what? What would feel good to me? And you know, to me and to lots of people. 170 00:20:26.310 --> 00:20:32.230 Andy Mort: that kind of the slowness, the relational yeah, that spaciousness. Actually. 171 00:20:32.420 --> 00:20:36.350 Andy Mort: how can you make a business work with that at the heart of it? Is the question. 172 00:20:37.145 --> 00:20:37.940 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. 173 00:20:38.530 --> 00:20:59.679 Sarah Santacroce: And to me, like the the 1st 2 books, marketing, like, we're, human and selling, like, we're human were very much about our ideal clients and bringing this, you know, gentleness and humane approach and ethical approach to our ideal clients. And business like we're human, is going to be more about 174 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:24.869 Sarah Santacroce: us being in this business and and, like you said yes, finding out what works for us right, and feeling humane, and not exhausted and overwhelmed in our business so that we can actually do our life's work. And I used the peace sign as kind of part of the journey, because the idea is really to 175 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:44.819 Sarah Santacroce: find your inner peace so that you can then bring change to the outer world. How do you see the relationship between inner peace and and you know, slowness. What have you seen from from your community, from your clients? 176 00:21:45.600 --> 00:21:47.880 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, is this part of the journey. 177 00:21:49.350 --> 00:21:51.410 Andy Mort: That's a great question. Yeah, 178 00:21:53.650 --> 00:21:57.279 Andy Mort: yeah. And I guess I like, I'd like to think in. 179 00:21:58.170 --> 00:22:01.800 Andy Mort: I guess spirals and circles rather than 180 00:22:02.280 --> 00:22:07.000 Andy Mort: straight lines, and so that when you talk about the here, the journey. 181 00:22:07.460 --> 00:22:13.020 Andy Mort: it's a kind of coming coming back round and like what you know what comes first, st the inner peace or the slowness. 182 00:22:13.140 --> 00:22:22.480 Andy Mort: It's all a mix, and it's all kind of yeah. You're experimenting with things that bring you. 183 00:22:23.410 --> 00:22:30.813 Andy Mort: I suppose, bring you to a place of how we're defining inner peace, maybe integrity. 184 00:22:32.840 --> 00:22:41.000 Andy Mort: a sense of satisfaction with how, how I am doing things or what I 185 00:22:41.190 --> 00:22:45.370 Andy Mort: have let go, and I think that's a big part of the equation is 186 00:22:45.840 --> 00:22:48.299 Andy Mort: being at peace with the things that you 187 00:22:48.450 --> 00:22:56.490 Andy Mort: don't have the capacity or the time or the energy to do, and almost actively letting those things go. 188 00:22:56.790 --> 00:23:01.200 Andy Mort: because obviously slowing down requires, they said 189 00:23:01.900 --> 00:23:09.569 Andy Mort: admission, or this acknowledgement that I can't do everything you know, and there are loads and loads of things that I would love to be able to do. It's not just. 190 00:23:10.560 --> 00:23:20.009 Andy Mort: you know, pressures that other people are putting on me that oh, you need to do this. You should do that. It's like, no, there's loads of things in life that I would absolutely love to have a go at. 191 00:23:20.420 --> 00:23:26.899 Andy Mort: But I can't. You know I'm a finite human being. And so really, coming to a place of peace 192 00:23:27.260 --> 00:23:39.010 Andy Mort: with that is important. And yeah, I think there's a there's a a point of. 193 00:23:40.780 --> 00:23:44.010 Andy Mort: I guess calmness and satisfaction in 194 00:23:45.890 --> 00:23:50.710 Andy Mort: again the gentle rebelliousness of letting go of things and of saying. 195 00:23:50.830 --> 00:23:53.799 Andy Mort: Do you know what these are? The? These are the things that matter. 196 00:23:54.010 --> 00:23:58.830 Andy Mort: There's just a few sort of real keystone ideas or 197 00:23:59.070 --> 00:24:03.970 Andy Mort: things that are part of my business or part of my life that actually there my 198 00:24:04.180 --> 00:24:08.640 Andy Mort: focus right now they're the things I'm committing to, and everything else can 199 00:24:09.110 --> 00:24:11.889 Andy Mort: can fall away. And and that's okay. 200 00:24:13.270 --> 00:24:15.270 Andy Mort: So yeah, I don't know if that answers that question. But. 201 00:24:15.270 --> 00:24:19.299 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, no, it totally doesn't. And 202 00:24:19.600 --> 00:24:37.570 Sarah Santacroce: it made me think of the word busy. You know how this is such a common word that we kind of throw around like a batch of honor that is part of the business world. Oh, if I'm busy, that means I'm successful, or that's how it's perceived. 203 00:24:37.700 --> 00:24:44.750 Sarah Santacroce: and so kind of making peace, making inner peace with this idea of 204 00:24:45.220 --> 00:25:10.500 Sarah Santacroce: maybe not wanting to be busy or wanting to be. What I start to say now is, I'm busy with life. And so that kind of, you know, can people can decide on their own? Well, what does that mean? Because if you're clearly, if you're saying I'm not busy. Well, people see that as something very bad, and they're like, Oh, no, I'm so sorry. 205 00:25:10.500 --> 00:25:10.820 Andy Mort: Yeah. 206 00:25:10.820 --> 00:25:36.229 Sarah Santacroce: Oh, your business is falling apart. You're not busy. So just making peace with this busyness thing and saying, Well, I'm not busy, but I am very focused, and I have very much clarity around the things that I do want to invest my time in. And and so it's, it's yeah. It doesn't give, give you this 207 00:25:36.620 --> 00:25:42.560 Sarah Santacroce: overwhelmed energy of that busyness does actually. So yeah. 208 00:25:42.560 --> 00:25:46.399 Andy Mort: Yeah, I love that. Yes, the words that we use are so 209 00:25:46.810 --> 00:25:50.050 Andy Mort: impactful, aren't they like? And yeah, I'm very aware of 210 00:25:50.280 --> 00:25:52.400 Andy Mort: someone says, how? How are things going? 211 00:25:52.710 --> 00:25:54.449 Andy Mort: So I'm busy. 212 00:25:54.450 --> 00:25:54.800 Sarah Santacroce: Okay. 213 00:25:54.940 --> 00:25:56.290 Andy Mort: Why have I said that? 214 00:25:56.845 --> 00:25:58.919 Andy Mort: But yeah, and also the 215 00:25:59.950 --> 00:26:06.489 Andy Mort: the yeah, really focusing in on the things that you want to do in the way that you want to do them. So like, recently, I've been 216 00:26:06.890 --> 00:26:12.580 Andy Mort: doing a lot more kind of hands on, I guess, creative. 217 00:26:12.850 --> 00:26:16.059 Andy Mort: So I've been doing a lot of collaging which I want to 218 00:26:16.410 --> 00:26:21.590 Andy Mort: been using. We have like a community Zine, that I put out once a month, and so I've been doing that for that. 219 00:26:21.850 --> 00:26:26.810 Andy Mort: But I also want to do more of that, for, like blog posts. 220 00:26:27.320 --> 00:26:29.869 Andy Mort: kind of featured images, and things that 221 00:26:30.410 --> 00:26:38.279 Andy Mort: until now, like constantly thinking like, oh, what? What's the most efficient way to to do that? Or like social media posts like? How can I 222 00:26:38.660 --> 00:26:41.030 Andy Mort: do them quicker? And all of that kind of thing. 223 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:47.740 Andy Mort: And obviously, you know, generative AI is A is a big part of that question as well, or the conversation 224 00:26:48.130 --> 00:26:52.359 Andy Mort: there of like, how can you do things more efficiently and 225 00:26:52.620 --> 00:26:56.210 Andy Mort: be more productive and get more out there? And all of that stuff? 226 00:26:56.370 --> 00:26:57.489 Andy Mort: And actually. 227 00:26:58.060 --> 00:27:06.829 Andy Mort: yeah, I'm kind of asking. That question of myself is that useful? Does that does doing more and doing it more quickly. 228 00:27:07.950 --> 00:27:13.919 Andy Mort: give me more satisfaction, or like a sense of connection to what it is that I'm doing 229 00:27:15.350 --> 00:27:21.290 Andy Mort: and if not, what do I want to do more? Slowly? Again coming back to that question. Actually, I want to 230 00:27:21.520 --> 00:27:26.419 Andy Mort: put some time, and my humanity into some of these things that 231 00:27:26.630 --> 00:27:30.250 Andy Mort: we're being promised. We can do quicker if we take our humanity out of it. 232 00:27:31.220 --> 00:27:36.310 Andy Mort: And I really appreciate, you know, when you can tell that somebody has really put 233 00:27:36.710 --> 00:27:40.360 Andy Mort: themselves into a blog post or 234 00:27:40.560 --> 00:27:46.929 Andy Mort: even a social media post. It's like, Oh, I can see the human there, and I think it's becoming more and more obvious like. 235 00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:53.629 Andy Mort: however, you know, AI is getting more advanced. But there's still something of the uncanny about it that 236 00:27:53.860 --> 00:28:01.190 Andy Mort: is often quite evident or identifiable. And so 237 00:28:01.350 --> 00:28:07.709 Andy Mort: I don't know. I just see there's this moment that we're entering now, where there's this 238 00:28:07.860 --> 00:28:11.059 Andy Mort: call for more humanness, and there's a 239 00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:22.469 Andy Mort: an appetite for it whether we're consciously aware of that appetite or not. We see people. And it's like, Oh, yeah, I want people I want. There's a human there. And 240 00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:27.490 Andy Mort: I just find that, yeah, really attractive and compelling. 241 00:28:28.060 --> 00:28:28.780 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. 242 00:28:28.990 --> 00:28:53.180 Sarah Santacroce: And I'm glad you brought up AI. That was going to be my last question as well like, How does that play into all of this slowness, where everything we see out there is more, quicker and more efficient and got to do more. Right? So yeah, I love how you brought that up. And then also the yeah, the need 243 00:28:53.700 --> 00:29:05.209 Sarah Santacroce: for the human connection. And I think that's what we're both doing in our communities. And I think that's really a big part of business like we're human to bring in. 244 00:29:05.670 --> 00:29:08.580 Sarah Santacroce: not just a humanness in text, because 245 00:29:08.940 --> 00:29:23.700 Sarah Santacroce: again, that can be easily replaced by by AI, but the humanness in like real connection, even, you know. Obviously, it's going to be still using technology. So online. 246 00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:38.089 Sarah Santacroce: But but also they're slowing things down. We recently started introducing meaningful questions in our meetups. So they're based on 247 00:29:38.090 --> 00:29:58.819 Sarah Santacroce: on a deck of cards by Thomas, whom I've interviewed recently, and they're called who cards. And so we pick 2 cards, and they have meaningful questions on them. And so we just have, you know, basically half an hour conversations. And these questions are not business questions. They're personal questions, right? 248 00:29:58.820 --> 00:30:08.149 Sarah Santacroce: But it allows the community members to yeah, to really get to know one another and to talk about their worldview and 249 00:30:08.180 --> 00:30:13.450 Sarah Santacroce: and things like that, that matter in terms of building these 250 00:30:13.660 --> 00:30:21.879 Sarah Santacroce: relationships, this new business intimacy. And and yeah, even if I think about 251 00:30:21.910 --> 00:30:51.089 Sarah Santacroce: you know how I used to sell my workshops or programs, and how I'm selling them now like before. It really was a transaction click here, and you know, buy now. And now I'm for the marketing, like we're human program. No, I am always wanting to talk to the person right? It's like this. This business intimacy is like, well, yes, it's a group program. But I want to, you know, get to meet you. And I think 252 00:30:51.090 --> 00:31:04.130 Sarah Santacroce: that kind of approach people will start to look for and see. Am I being heard and seen, or am I just, you know, a number. And people just want the money. 253 00:31:04.477 --> 00:31:05.519 Andy Mort: How have you? 254 00:31:06.090 --> 00:31:10.490 Andy Mort: How have you found that? Because I aware of a 255 00:31:11.310 --> 00:31:16.779 Andy Mort: again a conditioning that we have, you know, when someone wants a conversation, especially in a business context 256 00:31:16.890 --> 00:31:21.280 Andy Mort: like my, I'd go into sort of a they're going to want to 257 00:31:21.450 --> 00:31:24.490 Andy Mort: sell something to me, because I'm so used to 258 00:31:26.130 --> 00:31:45.969 Andy Mort: yeah, it's almost the whole persuasion or influence movement of like, you need to get on the phone and actually talk to someone so that you can force the sale. And so and obviously, that's not. It's the opposite of what you're doing, because it's like I want to connect. And I'm the same. I want to sort of yeah, reach out, have a human connection with people. 259 00:31:45.970 --> 00:31:46.490 Sarah Santacroce: Right. 260 00:31:47.330 --> 00:31:53.219 Andy Mort: And yeah, I wonder, have you experienced people's yeah sort of poised. 261 00:31:53.220 --> 00:31:57.266 Sarah Santacroce: Actually inbound. So I'm not, you know, 262 00:31:58.110 --> 00:32:18.000 Sarah Santacroce: proposing this conversation, but it's it's an option on the sales page. So they know that is a conversation they they pretty much already decided. Yes, I want to join, but there's no way that you can just buy now. They have to sign up to talk to me, and then 263 00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:46.420 Sarah Santacroce: I don't have to. I'm not selling anything because they've seen the program details. And they basically just want to find out, am IA good fit for this program? Oftentimes they just want to meet me, and, you know, have a conversation. And so that's what we do. We just have a conversation. And then sometimes it's about figuring out, how, how can we set up a humane payment plan? So it's very. 264 00:32:47.270 --> 00:32:54.989 Sarah Santacroce: I think it it really lowers or or it calms people's nervous systems because they know what to expect. 265 00:32:55.210 --> 00:33:17.470 Sarah Santacroce: and so giving them so much information upfront, and then just saying, hey? You want to talk about this. I know this is a great program. I've been running this for many years. Let's talk about it. If this is a good fit. So so that's usually how how it works. I know I see what you mean like by 266 00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:41.780 Sarah Santacroce: imposing this conversation. I don't think people would. Yeah, they they would probably be like, no, she wants to sell me something. And unfortunately, yeah, that's the reputation that business has. Right? It's like, Oh, you're gonna pitch me your stuff? So so I think what would work in this case is 267 00:33:42.220 --> 00:33:44.779 Sarah Santacroce: is picking a specific topic 268 00:33:45.460 --> 00:34:11.260 Sarah Santacroce: and say, how do you feel about what's happening in the world, or this specific thing like what we just addressed right at the beginning, before we started recording like, that would be a great topic to reach out to someone and say, Hey, what's your take on this? Have you seen this? And then just have a conversation? But then obviously not comments at the end, pitch your program, but just connect. 269 00:34:11.260 --> 00:34:15.649 Andy Mort: Yeah, I love that idea. Yeah. And that sort of resonates with the 270 00:34:15.830 --> 00:34:19.349 Andy Mort: the who cards, as you're saying as well. And 271 00:34:19.710 --> 00:34:23.249 Andy Mort: the it's like exploring the prompts that we do where 272 00:34:24.090 --> 00:34:29.359 Andy Mort: actually they might feel irrelevant to business, or they might feel like 273 00:34:29.790 --> 00:34:43.749 Andy Mort: what a waste of time you're talking about something that's irrelevant to this thing that really matters. And it's like, actually, that thing will come up if it needs to come up. And these are like, you know, train tracks along which the conversation 274 00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:46.840 Andy Mort: goes, and you'll see the things that are 275 00:34:47.100 --> 00:34:50.729 Andy Mort: in that environment around people as they start to talk. And then 276 00:34:51.030 --> 00:34:56.920 Andy Mort: you, you might explore that, and it might give rise to something completely unexpected. 277 00:34:57.100 --> 00:34:57.720 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. 278 00:34:57.720 --> 00:35:00.470 Andy Mort: Saying earlier. So yeah, I really love that. 279 00:35:00.470 --> 00:35:25.059 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, one more thing I just thought of that I started doing is like, when I have an open workshop where I invite people outside of the community. I don't offer the recording for this workshop only to members, and so I do get some pushback every now and then for that, because people are just not used to it. 280 00:35:25.060 --> 00:35:33.340 Sarah Santacroce: You know they feel like, well, everybody else is offering a recording. Why aren't you? And and my answer is that I really. 281 00:35:33.670 --> 00:35:48.259 Sarah Santacroce: this is not just content. This is not just information. It really is part like, what I'm trying to show is the business like, we're human. So you're coming in as a human, and you participate. And 282 00:35:48.460 --> 00:35:56.710 Sarah Santacroce: and you know you get into breakout rooms and have conversations with peers about this topic. And and so. 283 00:35:57.110 --> 00:36:11.159 Sarah Santacroce: being in the in presence on Zoom is actually really important. I understand that in terms of you know, everybody's lives and time zones. Sometimes it doesn't work. 284 00:36:12.020 --> 00:36:19.060 Sarah Santacroce: But then you're really not like, just by getting the information you're not getting the actual message. 285 00:36:19.060 --> 00:36:19.410 Andy Mort: Yeah. 286 00:36:19.410 --> 00:36:21.960 Sarah Santacroce: Of that event or work. 287 00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:32.589 Andy Mort: More to it, isn't there? Yes, which is, you can't put into words the difference. It's like so like with the Zine that I mentioned earlier, which is called coming to our senses. 288 00:36:32.940 --> 00:36:35.419 Andy Mort: I've been doing. There's like a Pdf 289 00:36:36.210 --> 00:36:38.430 Andy Mort: visual version that I put out each month. 290 00:36:38.620 --> 00:36:45.450 Andy Mort: But I've also done audio and video versions. So I, you know, compose some music and then narrate what's. 291 00:36:45.990 --> 00:36:46.340 Sarah Santacroce: Content. 292 00:36:46.340 --> 00:36:58.500 Andy Mort: From the Zine over the top, and it's usually about 40 min long. And so we have a session on Zoom together. At the end of the month where I just play that video. And we just sit together and watch it. 293 00:36:59.010 --> 00:37:01.979 Andy Mort: And yeah, people have mentioned, like 294 00:37:02.490 --> 00:37:07.150 Andy Mort: having watched previous ones just on the sort of Youtube video 295 00:37:07.350 --> 00:37:12.729 Andy Mort: and then coming to their 1st live session with it, like the difference 296 00:37:13.190 --> 00:37:21.460 Andy Mort: it makes being there with others watching it live, and whether it's sort of the fact, you're not being distracted by a million one other things. 297 00:37:22.410 --> 00:37:23.550 Andy Mort: Or it's 298 00:37:23.720 --> 00:37:28.369 Andy Mort: you're aware that you're in presence. The presence of other like. There are people all around the world 299 00:37:28.500 --> 00:37:31.290 Andy Mort: there, at that same time doing the same thing as you. 300 00:37:31.650 --> 00:37:38.130 Andy Mort: and or something else like. It's really difficult to PIN down exactly what it is, but 301 00:37:38.500 --> 00:37:45.970 Andy Mort: the meaning of it, and the way that it lands in people is so much more than if they're just watching a video on their own. 302 00:37:46.420 --> 00:37:50.340 Andy Mort: she is speaks to, speaks to what you're saying there as well. Yeah. 303 00:37:50.340 --> 00:37:57.259 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, yeah, good. I guess one of the 304 00:37:57.690 --> 00:38:01.820 Sarah Santacroce: final questions would be like, How how 305 00:38:03.070 --> 00:38:14.619 Sarah Santacroce: entrepreneurs who are listening to this. And they're like, yeah, I could definitely use some more spaciousness in in my life and business. What would be like a 1st step that you would 306 00:38:14.990 --> 00:38:22.670 Sarah Santacroce: tell them to something to look at in their business, or something to do or not do. Probably. 307 00:38:23.690 --> 00:38:26.309 Andy Mort: Yeah, 1st step. 308 00:38:28.750 --> 00:38:30.719 Andy Mort: I think. And he I mean, he's 309 00:38:30.870 --> 00:38:40.020 Andy Mort: say all the time, but sort of just allowing yourself to to notice what matters to you in what you do and what 310 00:38:41.070 --> 00:38:48.920 Andy Mort: brings you satisfaction? And I've been exploring this this word satisfaction with a coaching client over the past 311 00:38:49.830 --> 00:38:55.760 Andy Mort: sort of 6 months or so and different sources of satisfaction. 312 00:38:57.120 --> 00:39:00.140 Andy Mort: And yeah, really reflecting on. 313 00:39:00.660 --> 00:39:11.800 Andy Mort: you know what's the most satisfying thing to you about the way that you approach your business. What's the most satisfying thing to you to hear from a client? What's what is satisfying. 314 00:39:11.970 --> 00:39:14.509 Andy Mort: you know, at the end of a day like 315 00:39:14.850 --> 00:39:19.360 Andy Mort: what has happened in a satisfying day, or whatever it is like. Just 316 00:39:19.550 --> 00:39:22.450 Andy Mort: yeah. Thinking about those different levels of satisfaction. 317 00:39:22.620 --> 00:39:26.439 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, and then, yeah, building a picture around that 318 00:39:27.100 --> 00:39:31.220 Sarah Santacroce: and then doing Murray condo on all the other things that. 319 00:39:31.220 --> 00:39:31.870 Andy Mort: Yeah. 320 00:39:31.870 --> 00:39:34.530 Sarah Santacroce: Doing, and are not satisfying right. 321 00:39:34.530 --> 00:39:39.659 Andy Mort: Yeah. And maybe yeah, because it's like the question of boundaries. It's 322 00:39:40.100 --> 00:39:47.409 Andy Mort: are you moving towards? If you move towards the things that are satisfying. Will the other things just fall away? Or 323 00:39:47.710 --> 00:39:49.440 Andy Mort: do you need to actively 324 00:39:49.830 --> 00:40:03.939 Andy Mort: extract certain things? It's most likely a mixture of both. But I think, yeah, for me. The first, st the starting point is moving towards the things that you know that matter most, and doing 325 00:40:04.260 --> 00:40:07.050 Andy Mort: things in the way that I want to do them. 326 00:40:07.210 --> 00:40:13.620 Andy Mort: And then, actually, those other things might naturally just, I'm no longer doing that interesting. 327 00:40:13.620 --> 00:40:16.184 Andy Mort: Okay, I don't need to bring it back. 328 00:40:17.295 --> 00:40:17.830 Andy Mort: Yeah. 329 00:40:18.270 --> 00:40:18.990 Sarah Santacroce: Great. 330 00:40:19.120 --> 00:40:30.080 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. And then I mean, you're such a creative. You create your compose your own music and talking about collages and all of that so bringing more 331 00:40:30.300 --> 00:40:44.490 Sarah Santacroce: creativity, like just giving yourself permission to be more creative in your business. I think that comes with the that permission of letting go of the shoulds, you know, like we are 332 00:40:44.600 --> 00:40:52.580 Sarah Santacroce: like copying so much of what other people are telling us to do. But if you 333 00:40:52.720 --> 00:41:07.109 Sarah Santacroce: realize oh, but that is not actually satisfying than just going into this permission of well, what if I do it differently and more creatively? How would that? Yeah, give me more satisfaction? Right? 334 00:41:07.110 --> 00:41:10.030 Andy Mort: Definitely, yeah, and your creative voice. 335 00:41:10.470 --> 00:41:13.810 Andy Mort: Just allowing that to to bubble up and be part of 336 00:41:14.170 --> 00:41:21.410 Andy Mort: the way you express yourself through your business and humor as well. I think humor is a big part of that like. 337 00:41:21.410 --> 00:41:21.730 Sarah Santacroce: M. 338 00:41:21.730 --> 00:41:25.219 Andy Mort: Doing things that make you laugh, doing things that yeah, you. 339 00:41:25.220 --> 00:41:26.600 Sarah Santacroce: Yeah playfulness. 340 00:41:26.600 --> 00:41:29.489 Andy Mort: Play you playful? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 341 00:41:29.710 --> 00:41:32.310 Andy Mort: Yeah. Because people connect to that absolutely. 342 00:41:33.880 --> 00:41:34.590 Sarah Santacroce: Lovely. 343 00:41:34.730 --> 00:41:41.629 Sarah Santacroce: so good to talk to you, Andy, please do share about your community, and where else people can find you. 344 00:41:41.890 --> 00:41:47.580 Andy Mort: Yeah, I mean, the best place is is the haven. So the hyphen haven.co 345 00:41:47.710 --> 00:41:51.049 Andy Mort: everything. I've kind of brought everything that I do 346 00:41:51.420 --> 00:41:54.340 Andy Mort: with this in respect to what I've been talking about today 347 00:41:54.460 --> 00:41:57.620 Andy Mort: under that banner. Now. So you, there's yeah a bunch of 348 00:41:57.930 --> 00:42:02.450 Andy Mort: free stuff there, you can join the community, join us for some live events and things and 349 00:42:03.290 --> 00:42:05.915 Andy Mort: get the podcast through there. 350 00:42:06.620 --> 00:42:17.459 Andy Mort: yeah, just head there. Thank you, Sarah, this is yeah, it's been such a delight to talk to you. And I love talking about these things in this way. So thank you for this 351 00:42:17.690 --> 00:42:19.419 Andy Mort: invitation. It's been lovely. 352 00:42:19.890 --> 00:42:33.060 Sarah Santacroce: Thank you. Yeah, thanks for the listeners who slowed down with us and are still listening. So thanks again, Andy, and we'll stay in touch and speak soon. 353 00:42:33.520 --> 00:42:35.070 Andy Mort: Thank you. Absolutely.

I was listening to the Cleaning Up podcast this week, and the guest was Rory Sutherland, the Vice Chair at Ogilvy UK. I will put a link to the podcast below. The conversation was about everything I dislike about the marketing industry. It is an industry where money is more important than morals or outcomes and consequences. It reminded me of a refreshing marketing conversation I had with Sarah Santacroce some three years back. In my opinion, all marketing must be based on integrity and the desire for what is right, not just what makes money. Sarah has been on a simular journey and devised her solution. Gentle Marketing.    The Cleaning Up Podcast https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-vk5vy-22508372 -----------------------------------------------------------------  When I first spoke to Sarah Santacroce, she introduced herself as the Hippie turned Business Coach, which gave me visions of VW Beetles and flowers, so I was instantly hooked and intrigued to learn more. As you will hear, Sarah has a lovely European Accent with a twist of California that is charming to listen to.  She is part of a growing tide of marketing professionals (myself and several other guests included) who are questioning the dubious path that sales and marketing has taken over the last 20 years. Recognizing that it was not healthy to squeeze herself into a model that doesn't fit her values and personality, Sarah has created a new niche for herself with her business marketing approach and is here to share her story with us. I hope you enjoy this conversation and discover more about the Gentle Marketing approach with Sarah Santacroce. The Cleaning Up Podcast https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-vk5vy-22508372     If you are interested in discovering how Sarah can help you, a good place to start is with her free download of “The One Page Marketing Plan”. Click on the link below to access this along with her other links and social media connections.     Full Text for this post along with my Guest's website and social links are all available at: www.lifepassionandbusiness.com/sarah-santacroce-gentle-marketing-revolution     Life Passion & Business is dedicated to exploring what it takes to be Extraordinary, to face challenges and rejoice in the opportunities they bring, and expand our vision into new ways of thinking and living. There is a lot to gain from listening to other people's stories, however the real work begins by taking action in your own life. For full details of Events, Resources and Services visit: www.lifepassionandbusiness.com     Support For Podcasters: Running a podcast is fun, but it takes time and dedication. Whenever you enjoy a podcast please share your appreciation with comments, likes, shares and reviews. It helps other listeners find good content and supports the content creators and their guests. Another way you can support the Life Passion & Business podcast is with small donations: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/lifeandpassion    

Join us for another episode on the Humane Marketing podcast as we explore how to ethically partner with AI, with our guest, Naully Nicolas. We talk about Naully's journey into the world of artificial intelligence, the crucial ethical and legal considerations surrounding AI implementation, and how AI empowers us to work smarter, not harder. Naully shares his PLATON framework, inspired by Plato and infused with philosophical principles, guiding us through the pillars of legality, accountability, transparency, objectivity, and neutrality. Together, we envision the future of AI and work, inspiring us as Humane Marketers to embrace technology with empathy and mindfulness, shaping a future where humanity thrives alongside innovation. What we addressed in this conversation: How Naully got interested and started with AI The ethical and legal considerations of AI How AI enables us to work smarter not harder Naully's PLATON framework, based on Plato and philosophical considerations (principles, legality, accountability, transparency, objectivity and neutrality, because in French Plato has an N at the end) How Naully sees the future of AI and work and much more... --- Ep 187 whole episode Sarah: [00:00:00] Hello, Humane Marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non pushy. I'm Sarah Santacroce, your hippie turned business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneers. Mama bear of the humane marketing circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you're ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what we're doing. Works and what doesn't work in business. Then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way. We share with transparency and vulnerability. What works for us. And what doesn't work so that you can figure out what works for you instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane. marketing forward slash circle. And if you prefer one on one support from me, my humane business coaching could be just what you need, whether it's for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big idea like writing a book. I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15. Years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my Mama Bear qualities as my one-on-one client, and find out more at Humane Marketing slash coaching. And finally, if you are a Marketing Impact pioneer and would like to bring Humane Marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website. Humane dot marketing. Hello, friends. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast. Today's conversation fits under the P of partnership, I'd say. We're partnering with AI. If you're a regular here, you know that I'm organizing the conversations around the seven P's of the Humane Marketing mandala. And if you're new here and this is your first time listening, well, A big warm welcome. You probably don't know what I'm talking about, these seven [00:03:00] P's in the mandala. Well, you can download your one page marketing plan with the Humane Marketing version of the seven P's in the shape of a mandala at humane. marketing forward slash one page. Humane. marketing forward slash one page. That's the number one and the word page. And this comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different P's for your business. For this conversation about partnering with AI in a humane way, I brought in my colleague, Noli Nicola. Noli is renowned Digital transformation consultant with over 16 years of experience in I. T. engineering and 12 years in marketing specializing in emerging technologies like web three, the metaverse and A. I. Noli provides pragmatic advice to business leaders. Particularly in [00:04:00] SMEs, navigating the complexities of the digital age. His stoic philosophy combined with a profound understanding of the digital landscape makes him an invaluable guide for companies seeking strategic opportunities in technology. So what we addressed in this conversation with Noli is how he got started and Interested in AI, the ethical and legal considerations of working with AI, especially as a humane marketer, how AI enables us to work smarter and not harder, Noli's framework based on Plato and philosophical considerations. Principles, legality, accountability, transparency, objectivity, and neutrality. Because in French, Plato is Platon and has an N at the end. [00:05:00] So that's where the neutrality comes from. And then also how Nolly sees the future of AI and work and so much more. So I'd say without further ado, let's get into it. Hi Noli, how are you? Como ti va? Naully: I'm fine, and you? Sarah: Yes, I'm great, thank you. You're in the middle of a move, so very stressful. We can't really use AI to help us move yet, or can we? Naully: Yes, I also I hope I use AI maybe for to do the planning for my moving, so it was quite useful. Sarah: Oh, wow. You'll have to tell us more about that. But yeah, I'm glad to have this conversation in between trips and moving boxes and things like that. Because yeah, we're, we're super excited to have you come and teach an in depth workshop on May 1st. [00:06:00] And, and this is just kind of like a teaser and I'll ask you some questions that we then also have more time to go in to on, on May 1st. And so. If you're listening to this and feel like, Oh, I want more of this content. And please join us on May 1st that it's a 90 minute workshop, humane. marketing forward slash workshop, but let's dive into it. And I'll, I'll just kind of start with how did you get into AYA, AI NALI and, and, and like, what does it represent for you in this day and age? Naully: How I discovered AI, I would say it's a normal step in my long career because I've been working for almost I would say 19 years into the IT universe. So, and also since my childhood, I was very curious, I like to dismount my own [00:07:00] PC and remote the remote again the PC. And it's also. On my personal view, I was there during the, the passage between the old internet, which was the I would say the effects of Minitel for some, and let's say the first browsing on internet. So it was like into the nineties, I think, around, around this era. And Then I work in IT for almost 20 years and I saw the progress. Also, I saw the constraint also of let's say the digital world. And I discovered AI when I was, reading a book, I would say it was not only, I would say sci fi books, but also I would say it was, I came across a book, so I don't remember the name and I was sure that in the next step of our digital world will be the AI. And And I was able also to sense [00:08:00] the switch between the, let's say, all the world. And I'm not that old, but the way that we interact with the computer and the new way that we are in this AI universe now. Sarah: Do you feel like we're completely there in the AI universe or we're still like at the very beginning of it? I Naully: think we are in the beginning because most of them. Approach that we have is only true chat, GPT and code and song, but I think it's only the tip of the iceberg because maybe your audience don't really make sense, but we're already using AI in every day. So, for example, for in Spotify, for example, it's an algorithm, it's not AI per se, but we are using the data, right? Yeah. Like when you're browsing on Netflix or something. It's a kind of [00:09:00] AI, which is gripping you the best show after you finish one. I'll tell you how you finish this show, there's also this one in which you might be interested. So, Sarah: yeah, so it's, it's kind of this blurry line between algorithms that are kind of gearing us towards where they want to go. And then also. Yeah, AI for like what you said, planning things like a move and, and probably if you can plan a move with AI, you can also plan a vacation with AI. Like you can do so many things and, and we'll get into some more of that. But I think when I brought up the topic of AI and. You know, Chachi PT is kind of the most note one right now. In the humane marketing circle, our community, there's a lot of I wouldn't, maybe a day, a day wouldn't say it's fear, but I think it's fear or [00:10:00] hesitation. And then there's also all these ethical considerations, which. Obviously are very important for someone who's doing humane business and humane marketing. So, yeah, what are some ethical considerations we should keep in mind when, when we're going down this road of using AI in our business? Naully: I would say if we talk in terms of fear, I can say we have the same when I would say the first software network appears. So because some people are afraid to me on Facebook, never, never, never, never. Some people switch to to Facebook anyways, but I think the thing different with AI is the fact that they can aggregate a lot of data, which are mostly it's a personal data. And also the carry things is they can be more [00:11:00] personalized that before, because I would say before we look up information into Google, but now we can create our own, I would say chat GPT with in every sector, for example, but I can create a personal coach GPT, which contains all my Let's say, personal view or approach that no other coach can have. And there is the main, let's say, reflection about what, what are stored, those data, because now we can put, let's say, more personal data, like the, the people that we have interaction with, name, date, address and so on. And those that are located in country who are less more, I would say, regarding internal flow. For example, in the US, we have the Patriot [00:12:00] Act, in which any federal agency can look into those data without asking you. So that's why in Europe they have the G-G-D-P-R. Sarah: mm-hmm . Naully: And now they in, they want to enforce the EU Act in, which is a kind of G-E-D-P-R for ai. So it's to determine which is the good usage of AI and which is the, would say risky usage of hair. Sarah: They're trying to kind of come up with laws. They're catching up, really. They have to catch up. Yeah, because there Naully: is some issue, for example, with AI using for credit score, for example, because we have to we have to determine who is responsible for these tools. Sarah: It Naully: is the developer. It is the person who is using the tools. Or this is the user, [00:13:00] Sarah: right? Naully: So I would say the same, like if you buy a car, there is a responsibility. It's the one who drives the car, that's the car manufacturer, Sarah: right? Naully: So, Sarah: so the Naully: ethics is the main, I would say the main point of ethics in AI is to determine the responsibility. in the creation and the use of those tools. Sarah: Right. Yeah. Because I think the one thing to keep in mind is that you can always go. Either way, right. You can use AI for good, or you can use AI for evil. And that's what we're all afraid of. When we talk about, oh, AI is going to take over, the robots are going to take over, well, we're afraid of things going in the wrong direction. And so is that what they're now trying, trying to kind of come up with legal responsibilities of who's [00:14:00] responsible for what? Naully: Yeah, I, as I said before, it's. It's not perfect or ideal, but it's better than nothing because at least we have a framework in which someone can and which some people can refer to, so it's not the wild, wild west in terms of AI, so there's some moral, moral and legal framework. In the use of AI, Sarah: right? Is this what happened after Elon Musk and a bunch of other people sent that open letter? Was that in response to that or kind of happened Naully: anyway? I think it's that. But also there is the thing that. They don't want to this kind of tool to be out of control because things can go badly and we can see in country like China that are using AI not. In the right use, [00:15:00] mostly for surveillance of their steel. And I think the country in Europe, they don't want to that rule. So, so, and I think also there is some moral issues of also, of kind of still. Sarah: Right, right, yeah, it's interesting because everything happens so fast that governments and legal people, they, they have a hard time catching up with everything because that's, that's from the old paradigm. So it's just like very slow and admin heavy and all of that. Right. So you think there is ever going to be a point where. They're on the same page and they caught up. Well, Naully: there is now, I think, more and more countries are, I would say, are just according to the same principle, because I think there is, I would say, there is some universal [00:16:00] principle that you will find anywhere in the world. It's the world of justice. Sarah: I think Naully: everyone want want to be as the Stanford justice, and also to have the opportunity to questions also the AI, because it's like, Well, you're, let's say, in your common life, you're also the right to question if you're arrested by a police officer, you have the right to, to have a lawyer and also to to be in a tribunal. So it should be the same also when we use AI for this, I think it's the kind, it's the same. Universal principle that you can find in any country from Switzerland to France to Peru, anywhere. So, Sarah: yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we went in a bit big picture in terms of, you know, what needs to change in a society on the legal aspect, the justice aspect for us in order to, to [00:17:00] work with AI. But now if we take it down to our entrepreneurial level, how can we. integrate in, you know, AI in our businesses in a way that is. Ethical and makes us work smarter and not harder, but also stays away from like, the one thing that I don't like about AI is, is this push towards even more productivity, toward even more working and, you know, more hustle. And I'm like, well, no, I think that's getting it wrong. It's like, we have this amazing tool that helps us actually. Work smarter, not harder, but then freeze us with more time to be more human. That's the way I look at it. So what are some practical ways that you have worked with entrepreneurs that they use [00:18:00] AI to work smarter and not harder? Naully: But the first thing that I told my. Entrepreneur is that AI is not there to replace you, but to help you. So you should consider AI as a tool because AI is not perfect because by extension, AI was created by a new man. So the human is not perfect per se. So also AI are subject as we call hallucination because. Yeah, it's predicting, let's say, words, it's not contextualizing the words, so you have also understand the limits of the AI because it can be considered as a magic tool can rule, but you have also to understand that AI has also its own limits. So you won't, you won't pass you in any ways, you will simply help you [00:19:00] maybe in turn now in term of workload, I would say that. AI is a good tool if you want to, I don't know, manage your content. For example, if you are someone who loves to write content, it could be a good assistant, but it won't replace you to create your content, but also it can help you to I don't know, create a content schedule for the next two, once a month, next two months. And then you can schedule those contents and then you can sort of manage your day to day life also easier because you already create your content for the month for the next two months. So you can maybe take a day off because usually before you took, well, I don't know, one week to create your content, to write it and publish it. And those, I would say, save time, you [00:20:00] can save it elsewhere. Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. You can actually invest it in the human relations, right? Yeah. Have, have coffee with a friend or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And I like how you said you can help you, it assists you, it can help you with brainstorming ideas and, and give you content ideas you know, never ending lists of content ideas. Yeah. And it can then even help you, guide you through writing it. But I think we should not just rely on AI to now take over all the writing because knowing you and what you write, I would definitely be able to tell, I think, if all of a sudden it would just just be AI writing it. Yes, you can train it to a certain extent probably to, you know, have talk like you. And that's what I'm experimenting with as well. But then I [00:21:00] still. Go in, like I still am the manager, right? And AI is the assistant and then I have to change it and make sure it speaks like I do. So I think that's really important to understand because What we see a lot out there is like these bland sounding things, right, that you can tell, oh, this is just like, you know, AI created content that has no humanness and no personality to it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then Google actually just said that they're starting to punish the pages on Google that are only content, I mean, AI created. So that's a, that's a good good move from them. Obviously they're a bit scared as well, I think, but yeah, I think that's a good move. So where would we, would you tell. Actually, before, before that, I, I [00:22:00] know you have this framework based on Blayton. Yeah. And, and so I, I'm just wondering if you could explain a little bit. Your approach to philosophy and AI, because that kind of, from hearing that, that kind of sounds like an, it's, you know, an oxymoron, like how do those two go together? But Naully: tell us more Sarah: about it. Naully: Yeah, for sure. So I, I, I'm always being, I would say I'm a huge history buff. So I always has book in my house and I love read books about history and all kinds of books could be philosophy, psychology, and I found that philosophy was a good way to be grounded in what we are doing and all what we are thinking, especially in this time with everything is going so fast and we can be so lost [00:23:00] rapidly. And during my one of my reading, I came across a biography of. Plateau, which is plateau in French. And I was thinking that maybe we could use some aspect of the story, story season, but in how we approach technology, because sometimes we are using technology because we have. We are using it, but we don't really think what we do with it project. So that's how I came up, I came with this idea of Platon, which is put in French. And the first, let's say P is for principle in the wishes. What are the, the principle that I put it in my content, it could be also in my content or the principle that on why I'm using the ai. So it ask me to [00:24:00] myself when I'm using a tool, which could be charge GPT and some to ask me what are the consequence of using this tool if the tool are, I would say. Ethically based or the people are treated, I would say, correctly or humanly. And then the L can stand for legality. Maybe it's more about when I'm using an AI tool is my content is not under, it's not copyrighted by someone else. And actually, there is a huge debate about AI, because mostly they are using data scrapped from the internet, and most of the data are copyrighted. Sarah: So, Naully: so you need to ask yourself, is the thing that I'm using is completely legal or not? Then there's the A, [00:25:00] which is for accountability, which I have to be concerned that I'm using a AI tool. Don't say that if for example, if I'm putting wrong information, because I use AI tool, I have to count accountable after I, that I put, if I use, for example, if I'm using a AI tool like me Journey, maybe I should be aware that maybe I'm using copyrighted. Image from illustrator and maybe if needed, but who put any annotation when I'm using those kind of image also to be transparent and the T for transparency. So for example, is to be transparent in the use of AI tool, especially if you're working for a journalist. You have to say that for example, that I, this part or this part of your article has been [00:26:00] written with the help of AI2 or this image has been modified by the AI2. For example, recently there is a journalist who made a Documentary about the young in Iran, and it's instead of using blurred image, they use the, he praised the faces of the person who are being interviewed with AI generated image. So, so they made a disclaimer saying that those people faces have been generated by AI. So, and O stands for objectivity. So you have to be like concerned or so, but on why you're using the AI in your marketing. It's of course, the N stands for neutrality, which it says that it's mostly when you're would say. Using AI to in marketing, it's saying that you are [00:27:00] using the tool, not in a harmful way. So you should be conscious that you are not using the tool to do arm on or give false information. Sarah: I love, I love that. I love these words. Let's so principles, legality, accountability, transparency, objectivity, and neutrality. Yeah, they, they sound very humane, like, you know, they're very humane words and it's, it's a really good idea to, yeah, to go into AI with these considerations, right? To, to think about that deeply And, and we'll talk more about that in the, in the workshop and, and I think you have some you've created a game, so I look Yes. Yeah. Taking some questions from that game around that framework. Yeah. So in terms of where we're going with this, because like you said, it's just, you know, the kind of like, we're just seeing a tiny [00:28:00] bit of the iceberg right now. So where do you think. We're heading in terms of entrepreneurs using AI, how is it going to take over more of our, yeah, workload and what so many people like last year, this year, I don't hear it so much anymore, but so many people were afraid of AI taking over their jobs. So, so yeah what do you see as future development? Naully: I think also people fear what they don't understand also, because really new is like the first internet came up. We had the same fear because people didn't know how. How to use it, what it is really, because, and I think it's, there is a lot of work in terms of education, in terms of educating people, because, I won't say it's difficult to stop technology. [00:29:00] So then it's better to. Learn it with it. That's to fear it. So I think also it's it asks us to maybe to embrace the change because a lot of people don't like to change. Also, and for some people change bring fear because fear, but maybe they have to, if they work for a job, like, I don't know, like service job for like the 10 last year. Maybe they need to go to school again. So maybe they don't have the money or don't have the energy or maybe they're near from the retirement. So they ask, they ask themselves why they, that I need to go to school because I just have to five years to work, then I will be able to retire. And I think, I consider we are on a good path. It's not the perfect one, because at [00:30:00] least we are not into the apocalyptic one, the one we can see into the movie, because I think we can, we are able to see the fear. Also, there is some people who are pro, some people are against. I think neither side does. The monopoly of a reason and for now, I think it's in, in between, I think we should be in both sides. Maybe you have fear of maybe this technology, but also we can embrace technology because maybe they can help us to with our current, I would say. On environment issue, for example, or or maybe with a social issue also. So I think it's there's a lot of challenge for this technology and it's difficult to say what happened in five years, 10 years because they're in a few months, every, every two, every [00:31:00] two weeks, the new AI app. So it's difficult to say what, what the future brings. Sarah: Yeah, it will happen so fast though, right? Like that's the main thing with this AI technology. It's like, like I remember when Chachi PT came out, well, it's been already out, but nobody talked about it. And then within, let's say three weeks, everybody was talking about it. And so that's probably going to happen again with the next thing and the next thing, and the next thing, and. And what I like that you said is like, yes, we're on the right path because it would be probably really spooky if there was no fear at all like that. And I think that's kind of where Elon Musk and the gang, they got a bit freaked out because they're like, whoa, like this is going too fast. So they backed up a bit. And, and so I think that's a healthy. [00:32:00] kind of relationship to, to something new that, that we need to learn to live with. And so I appreciate that. Naully: I think it's I love to compare AI like the yin and yang. Sarah: Mm. Naully: It's like it should be equ equilibrium between those two. Sarah: Yeah. Mm-Hmm. Naully: it can be good, it can be bad. I think it's a mix of, can be cannot, it can be not. Also fully and utopia. Or fully a dystopia. Sarah: Right. Naully: I think it should be both at the same time, so. Sarah: A little mix. A little mix. Naully: I think it's like, I think I think it's like us. I think we, there is some day we are full of energy. Some day we are just, we just want to lay in bed all day. And I think it's this the circle of life also, we have your spring, summer, autumn, [00:33:00] winter, I think it's a cycle. So, Sarah: yeah, and you're right. I mean, it's in the end it's created by humans. And so it's still the humans that influences AI. And so if humans. Right now you can't say that humans are all good. Like we're in one of the biggest messes that we've ever been in. And so how can we expect the AI to just be beautiful and loving and all of that. So I feel like if we're working on becoming better humans, then the AI. We'll follow that trend. So that's, yeah, that's kind of my thought on that, but yeah, any, any closing thoughts that you have, that you, like what you're going to talk about on the workshop, maybe give us a, a little sneak preview of, of what we're going to do there. Naully: I [00:34:00] think we are, we are going to the. Ethics of AI and also the the ground base also of ai, which is which, which is where is it is and which is, is not, mm. Sarah: Right? Yeah. And then also doing some, some breakout rooms, right? And, and, and also, yeah, working on, on different, Naully: so we'll do some workshops and, Mm-Hmm, , all the, the, the pattern framework is working. Sarah: Yeah, I, I look forward to that framework and the, and the questions from that. So yeah, exciting. So yeah, again thank you so much for coming on, Noli. And if you're listening to this and you're interested in AI, but you're just a little bit also afraid of, you know, how does it work in a, in a business that is supposed to be humane. In marketing, that is supposed to be humane. Well, I invite you to join us for this workshop on [00:35:00] May 1st with Noli, because we're definitely going to approach it from the humane side of things. So, Naully: I just say, I just want to say that you mean it's always in loop AI or Sarah: not. Say that again. I didn't. Naully: I would say the AI human is always in the loop or not. So, yeah, Sarah: yeah, that's, yeah, that's nicely said. So yeah, do join us on, on May 1st go to humane. marketing forward slash workshop to reserve your seat and Noli and I look forward to having you there. Thanks so much. You're there. Yes. Thank you. Thanks for coming on to the podcast as well, Noli. I hope you got some great value from listening to this episode. Please find out more about Noli and his work at nolinicola. ch and [00:36:00] join us on Facebook for a 90 minute workshop on May 1st in the safety of our community, the Humane Marketing Circle. Members can attend these workshops for free, but you can join us with a pay what you can amount between 15 and 27. Find out more and reserve your spot at humane. marketing. com. And if you are looking for others who think like you, then why not join us in the humane marketing circle? Find out more at humane dot marketing forward slash circle. You find the show notes of this episode at humane dot marketing forward slash H M 1 8 7. And on this beautiful page, you'll also find a series of free offers. Such as the Humane Business Manifesto and my two books, Marketing Like We're Human and Selling Like We're Human. Thank you so much for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who [00:37:00] cares for yourself, your clients, and the planet. We are change makers before we are marketers. So go be the change you want to see in the world. Speak soon.

Welcome back to the Humane Marketing podcast with me, Sarah Santacroce, where we support a business approach that resonates with today's conscious clients through humane, ethical, and non-pushy practices. In this special solo episode, I thought I'd reintroduce myself and share a bit more about who I am. The whole human. So I share a little bit about my personal self but also talk about my work and specifically my different offerings, including my 1-on-1 Conscious Business Coaching, my programs and our Humane Marketing Circle community. I'll also offer a sneak peek into my upcoming third book around the topic of Being Human in Business. Let's embark on this journey together, creating a space where business thrives with heart and soul. Points I talk about: Who I am, personally and professionally The three main focuses in my life's work (my 1-on-1 coaching, my programs and our community) The 3rd book about Business Like We're Human The direction of this podcast this year And much more... Ep 180 transcript Sarah: [00:00:00] Hello, Humane Marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non pushy. I'm Sarah Zanacroce, your hippie turned business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneers. Mama bear of the humane marketing circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you're ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like minded. Quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what works and what doesn't work in business. Then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a Zoom circle workshop. To hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way. We share with transparency and vulnerability what works for us and what doesn't work, so that you can figure out what works for you, instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at Humane dot marketing forward slash circle. And if you prefer one on one support from me, my humane business coaching could be just what you need. Whether it's for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big idea like writing a book, I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15 years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and Sustainable. If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my mama bear qualities as my one on one client. You can find out more at humane. marketing forward slash coaching. And finally, if you are a marketing impact pioneer and would like to bring humane marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website at humane. marketing. Welcome back, friends, and happy 2024, may it be filled with many small and many big significant moments, moments of laughter, inspiration, and lots of magical Little moments, today's conversation fits under the P of personal power of the seven P's of humane marketing. And if you're a regular here, well, thanks for being back in 2024. You [00:03:00] already know that I'm organizing the conversations here around the seven P's of the humane marketing mandala. And if this is your very first time here. Big warm welcome, then you probably don't know what I'm talking about, but you can download your one page marketing plan with the humane marketing version of the seven Ps of marketing at humane. marketing forward slash one page. That's humane. Dot marketing forward slash the number one and the word page. And this comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different P's for your business to create this marketing foundation that is ethical and aligned with your values. So, I thought I'd use this first episode of the year to do a solo episode and maybe a bit of a reminder about who I am and what I stand for. Some other podcasters have done that [00:04:00] and reminded me to do it. So since I usually have interviews, right yeah. Yeah, it's not my favorite thing to talk about myself, but here I am. I I'm looking forward to sharing a little bit about my work, a little bit about me as a person. And then also at the end about the next book that I'm currently working on or nudging myself to work on. I have to be honest. It's, it, the outline is more or less there, but I haven't started writing yet. So that's the plan for this episode. I'll also give you kind of a heads up of what's coming for the podcast. Some of you may already know me a little bit from reading my books, marketing like we're human or. Selling like we're human or maybe you're even a member of the Humane Marketing Circle community. And that's definitely the place where I. I just show up as my, you know, [00:05:00] true self, and you definitely then know quite a bit about me. If so, well, then you know that I'm a Swiss born, but global citizen mother of two young adult boys, I'm an empath, and I bring a unique blend of perspectives to the table. So on the. Personal side, I'm an INFJ. So that's from the Myers Briggs, right? I'm very introverted, but I'm also very people oriented. That's what the last two letters stand for. So I call myself the mama bear of our community, the Humane Marketing Circle. And I would say that has to do with the INFJ. So I feel very. caring and empathic towards the members of the community and my clients and anybody that I, I come across. So while I'm introverted and I need a lot of [00:06:00] recharging the batteries time, I also very much enjoy people, especially people who have put up their hand and said, Hey, I want to be, you know, in your inner circles. I want to be spending more time with you. So INFJ, I'm also an. HSP, so that stands for highly sensitive person, and that is a character trait. And I was so relieved when I found out that that's just how I'm wired. I experienced the world more deeply. I feel a lot, and that can sometimes be quite honestly, a bit of a pain because, well, yeah, it's, it's. It's not always easy to feel everything, to feel a room, to feel the energy of the world in general. And then of course, especially feel the, the energy of my close people, my family, but also my clients. So while it comes with a lot of good things, such as A lot of intuition and [00:07:00] just knowing what people need and all of that. It also has some of the things that sometimes keep me from sleeping or keep me from just tuning out those kind of things. So I already said I'm an, I'm an introvert. So those three things really yeah. Kind of describe me. Well you know, we sometimes have this. Kind of thought about not wanting to use labels, but I feel good about these three Acronyms INFJ, HSP, and Introvert. They, they fit me. So I really use both my creative intuition as well as my practical wisdom to make a difference in the business world. I'm also a Capricorn from the astrology side. So very, very practical, very pragmatic, very down to earth. And I'm a cancer rising. So again, that's the care. That's the, the motherly aspect. That's [00:08:00] like just, you know, empathic aspect. So I do feel like I have found a way to be in business where, you know, I can really use all of me, all of who I am to bring all of that to, to what I'm offering. So. Besides that, I'm also very interested in all kinds of different woo woo things, such as, I mentioned it, astrology, I got introduced to it through my mom, who still does a reading for me each year at my birthday. She just kind of studied it as a, as a side thing. She was an astrologer, and that's kind of the same approach I have. I don't feel like I want to go and study astrology but I do want to understand it for me, for my close people, my family as well as my clients. It always helps me when they tell me, you know, what, which birth sign they are. And also human [00:09:00] design, because that's the next thing that I discovered and just really loved it. And I use that as well in my programs, the Marketing Like We're Human program, as well as my one on one clients to help them discover their own personal power. Personal power is the second P of humane marketing, where we really figure out, well, how are we wired so that we can find our own unique way of, business, but also just in general, how to be in business. I've always practiced yoga, but since COVID, I really do it religiously every morning. It's become part of who I am. So I start the day with, with that. I love yoga with Adrian for that on YouTube. So if you don't know yoga with Adrian, Have a look at that. It's just she has so many different videos. It's all free. And yeah, I love her style. She's kind of quirky and funny, but it's also very professionally [00:10:00] done. So the sound is good. It's just perfect. So that's what I do in the morning. And then at lunch, I also have a new practice, which is yoga nidra. which is a type of guided meditation, which works better for me than meditation. I tried meditation many years and always felt like I'm doing it wrong. It's not for me. So yeah, guided meditation. So the yoga nidra for just a deep relaxation of the body feels better for me Because I'm so much in my mind, I feel like, okay, focusing on the body and with this guided meditation and yoga nidra is what I found that works for me, right? It's all about finding a practice that works for us. And so if meditation is not. the thing that works, we'll go and find something else. I'm also a big fan of alternative medicines such as Ayurveda, which I've discovered what, [00:11:00] probably three, four years ago kind of going into perimenopause and now menopause, just kind of like finding a different way to look at Our, yeah, our health, our body, our nutrition. So just really loving that approach. And I've always been interested in how other cultures see the mind and the body connection. And so. Yeah, to me, it's just fascinating to follow someone else's approach to medicine, right? Yes, traditional medicine has definitely has saved my husband for once for one and, and, you know, it's, it's doing a lot of good in the world and there's Some things where alternative medicine works just as well. So Ayurveda is one, flowers of Bach is another one that I've also learned from my mom and, and sometimes forget about it. But whenever I think of it, I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm going [00:12:00] to go back to the flowers of Bach. I love essential oils. And yeah, so, so many things I could list here. I'm just all about experimenting and seeing, oh, yeah, that really works for me. So, I also book time in my day, most days, to go for an hour walk outside. I started walking with a dog, not our own dog. We travel, we love traveling too much to own a dog. But I started walking in a dog in, The neighboring town and really love that otherwise once per week I walk with my friend Barbara and another time with another friend. So yeah, really walking and being outside is a big part of me. I'm lucky to live five minutes from Lake Geneva and two minutes from a forest with a little river. So nature really has this healing effect on my Overstimulated mind, which is why I build a lot of spaciousness into my days. I did mention our [00:13:00] boys, but I just. I think it's, it's an important part of my life still, you know, they're 17 and 20. So still very much a mom even though they're now mainly living their own lives, they are still living at home or at least sleeping at home for the older one, Simon. And yeah, it's a big part of my holistic being, right? There's this work side of me, but then there's also the Family side of me, which I, I love that I've over the years built a business that really has the space to be all of me and has the space to have me spend time with the boys as they're I As they were smaller and have them grow up in a home where they come back and I'm on calls and and then can Spend time with them and do homework and all of that. So yeah over the [00:14:00] years that's been really important for me and still is but now they you know, they spread their wings and Need us less and less. So So that's me in a nutshell on the personal side. So on the professional side, I started my first business in 2007, 2008, and have run a LinkedIn consultancy over 12 years. So helping companies and individuals with LinkedIn. So LinkedIn, social selling, LinkedIn profiles. A lot of LinkedIn profile reviews, which I still offer as a service. It's a small LinkedIn profile video review. So a review of someone's profile in video format. And people really love that because it's a. relatively small investment and yet they get my expert advice on their profiles. So [00:15:00] that's something I still do. I also still offer a LinkedIn profile done for use. So someone who wants me to write their LinkedIn from A to Z, that's a service I still offer, but I don't give any trainings anymore, no more workshops. This is all the things that I used to do in companies, but also with individual clients. I did that over 12 years. And then a few years ago, I completely pivoted away from that business. And now I'm doing three main things in the realm of humane marketing. So first The thing that I'm offering is I'm a conscious business coach for changemakers to help them create their life's work and let the world know about it. I also run my two flagship programs, the Marketing Like We're Human program that has been running since 2019 and is coming up again in March 2024. It's a program for heart centered entrepreneurs [00:16:00] and changemakers to create their marketing foundation. And then a new program I launched last November. For the business book alchemist program for renegade authors to help them write their change making book. So a book about change. I won't be running that one again until November. So it's kind of an end of the year program. And then I'll basically create a community, a small community group, an accountability group to really stay accountable and help each other write the book during their year. So if you have a book in you keep that in mind for this November, which seems very far right now, since we just started the year, I do also work with clients one on one on their book together with that. program that I've created a video program for. So if you're in a hurry and would like my one on one support, then that's [00:17:00] something we can look at as well. So that's the Business Book Alchemist program. And then finally, I also host our community, the Humane Marketing Circle, which is a think tank for humans who want to market their business. And I tell you a bit more about that in a minute. So my clients and members on, of the community always say that I give them permission to be themselves in their business. And I really think that's true. There are no masks in our community and we really are being real and as the. Mama bear of our group. I lead and show up with vulnerability and share my own struggles so that it creates that safe space to, to be real. And people really appreciate that because I guess there's so much. Unrealness out there in the world that it feels like a safe haven to, to come to and, [00:18:00] and learn together and share about marketing like we're human. I love to work with change makers who are somehow involved in this paradigm change that we're currently in. So for me, there is really no more business as usual. If I hear someone say business as usual, I just cringe, or if I just. See LinkedIn posts about business as usual. I was like, no, you gotta wake up. There is no more business as usual. We are the ones that we've been waiting for. So this is the time that to not do business as usual anymore. Because yeah, we are the change makers. We have so much. Need for change right now. So many, so many systems that need to be changed and also just our own relationship to business and work. And I'll tell you more about that when I talk about the book. So as you know, I chose to [00:19:00] focus on changing and revolutionizing the way we market and sell in our businesses, but to me, that is just. My focus, right? Because that's the field I know best, but in all honesty, it's much bigger than that. And I'm really deeply interested in a complete systems change. So if we're going to save this planet and our humanity, then we need to stop doing what we've done until now and start reinventing business. Maybe we don't even call it business anymore because. Business reminds me of capitalism, and that is one system that is broken for sure. So in my one on one work, I support change agents who are aware of this paradigm shift and contribute to it with their work. So either by working with individuals or with companies, this could be organizational change work, or [00:20:00] leadership work, or mindset work, or climate oriented work. Sustainability work, right? Or working in some other way to help humanity, but it all has to do with change from within. So if you know the seven Ps of humane marketing, you can see how Inner change is very aligned with my framework because in humane marketing, we also start with ourselves. Another framework that starts from within and that I've started to get involved in locally and globally are the inner development goals. So they are the skills that have been kind of, I guess, with collective intelligence gathered to. Achieve the Sustainable Development Goals in a workshop called Humane Marketing for Changemakers. I've integrated this framework with my approach to humane marketing. [00:21:00] And if you know or run a community who would be interested in having me teach this workshop, please reach out to me. I'd love to come and teach that for free. So yeah, just kind of like looking at change that we need. And the other thing is that we need to think about what is it outside, right? That we need in our world as a thing that we need to change within ourselves first. So as you can tell, personal development is, is like a big thing for me having gone through it myself, then writing about it in the Marketing Like We're Human book, then applying that in the Marketing Like We're Human, aka the Client Resonator program, and also Very much practicing it with my one on one clients. It is the thing that we need right now in order to create outer change. Is this inner change first? So yeah, I love helping change makers, finding their messaging and sharing their gifts. And [00:22:00] often they are people like myself who find themselves at a pivotal point, either coming out of a corporate job or. pivoting in their own business because they feel the calling to contribute to the paradigm shift. So they feel like they've just been running a business as usual kind of business for the last few years and feel like they need to Step into something bigger because now is the time now is the time to really use the gifts that they've been given in order to contribute and make a bigger change, realizing that business as usual, given all our current challenging is just not for them anymore. So that's the one on one work that I love doing. So let me talk a little bit about our community. The community. Humane Marketing Circle, and after that I'll end with some heads up about the topic of my third book that [00:23:00] I'm currently working on and what I'm going to be sharing on this podcast as well. Actually, instead of me talking about the circle, our community, let me read you the most recent testimonial I've received from a member, Katica. I haven't had time yet to put it up, but I'll read it here. So she says, I stumbled into the humane marketing circle seeking a community that resonated with my values and approach to business. What I found was beyond my expectations. It's a gathering of diverse souls, each bringing unique expertise and perspectives. Here, it's not about hosting workshops by renowned experts. It's about sharing. Learning and growing together. The co creation aspect is remarkable. It's not just about attending events, but actively participating in shaping them. The recent Humane Marketing Circle Expo was a testament to this collaborative spirit. It's not just about self [00:24:00] promotion. It's about lifting each other up. What truly sets this circle apart is the emphasis on people. Not just, not just as members, but as individuals with stories, experiences, and knowledge to share. Being highlighted in the podcast wasn't a mere promotional tactic. It was an acknowledgement of our expertise and the celebration of our unique journeys. The value here is immense. It's not just about. Collaboration for events, but the organic growth and visibility that stem from it. The environment allows for organic networking and more importantly, it fosters a culture of ethical marketing where pushy tactics have no place. I've barely scratched the surface and already I've delved into topics like HSP, human design and referral marketing. All things to engaging with this community. What's truly special is that all members here are aligned with. in values, creating a [00:25:00] harmonious space where ethical marketing is the norm. The Humane Marketing Circle isn't just a community. It's a safe haven for like minded individuals to grow, learn, and make a difference in business, one conscious step at a time. I think that really sums up nicely what our community is like. There's about 40 of us right now. And while we'd love to grow, we are also Making very sure that the quality of the relationships doesn't suffer, because that's what we're most proud of, a community that is interrelated. Every active member has ties to other members, not just me. So, if this is the kind of community you'd love to get involved in, in this year, 2024. Learn from, and also share your experience with. We'd obviously love to have you. I'm currently redesigning a new landing page for the community with some different longer term pricing options. But right now you can still [00:26:00] join us at humane. marketing forward slash circle at the monthly rate of 37 per month. And, yeah, we'd love to have you. And finally, let me share some of my thoughts around this third book that I'm planning to work on this year. I've always had plans to have three books, so the marketing, the selling, and the business in general. That's kind of how my website was set up as well, with the three different colors. Marketing is green, selling is earth red, and business is blue. So, this third book is about business and work in general. Right now, the working title is something like Being Human and Running a Business, or just Business Like We're Human, to follow from the other two titles. And the subtitle for now is The Changemaker's Path to Redefining Our Relationship to Work and Finding Inner Peace to [00:27:00] Create Outer Change. So yeah. No more business as usual. Basically, I'll be writing about redefining business and work so that it doesn't define us, but we define it. And our work contributes to our own conscious well being and the well being of our planet. That's what I feel like work should be for and topics are going to be including how we got here, like the story from basically starting in the industrial revolution to today and kind of like highlighting, well, you know, What's wrong with that today? It might've worked back in the industrial revolution, but, you know, we have evolved, our consciousness hasn't evolved. And yet we are still defined by the way we think about work. From back then. Another topic is [00:28:00] reimagining a different way of making a living or making a life. Creating more spaciousness to be and to focus on things that truly matter to ourselves but also to the collective. The path to recalibrate our relationships and work so that we are ready for the new way of doing business like we're human. And then also tackling the topic of What AI has to do with all that. So artificial intelligence, how does that have or impact the way we work and how us humans can use AI to help us so that we can work less and be more human. And actually focus on taking care of our world and each other. So collaborating with I, instead of saying, well, no, that's just not human. So it's not good. Humans, our [00:29:00] main reason for being is not to work. We made that up in the Industrial Revolution, right? So what is our main reason for being human or what makes us human? So big questions like that. And I'll share some bonus episodes here on the podcast with updates of what I'm writing, conversations I'm having, and and more. And in addition to those bonus episodes, I'll also keep my usual schedule of two episodes per month. So one on a business and marketing topic and another one with a change maker I personally want to learn from. And I'm sure you'll be inspired as well. So yeah, that's what I have for today. Let's embark on this journey together, shaping a future where business is a force for good, where we market and sell like we're human. You can find out more about anything that I've shared [00:30:00] here on my website at humane dot marketing. If you want to find out more about the community, that's humane dot marketing forward slash circle. And you find the show show notes of this episode at humane dot marketing forward slash H M 1 8 0. And on this beautiful page, you'll also find a series of free offers such as the humane business manifesto and the free gentle confidence mini course, as well as my two books, marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. Thanks so much for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who cares for yourself. Your clients and the planet. We are change makers before we are marketers. So go be the change you want to see in the world. Speak soon.[00:31:00] [00:32:00]

In this episode, we sit down with Sarah Santacroce, an experienced LinkedIn consultant who has transitioned into a conscious business coach. Sarah discusses the importance of empathetic and kind business practices, advocating for a more humane approach to marketing. Drawing on her extensive experience as an author, podcaster, and coach, she challenges the traditional norms of marketing and offers fresh perspectives on how businesses can align their marketing strategies with their core values. Listeners will gain valuable insights into transforming their business approach and learn effective, yet gentle marketing techniques.Check out Sarah's links here:Her one pager she mentioned! https://humane.marketing/1pageHer Book "Marketing Like We're Human" https://sarahsantacroce.com/start-here/https://sarahsantacroce.mykajabi.com/businessbookalchemisthttps://humane.marketing/the-humane-marketing-community/https://humane.marketing/marketing-like-were-human/Show Notes:Introduction to Sarah Santacroce and her journey from LinkedIn consulting to conscious business coaching.The need for empathy and kindness in today's business landscape.Sarah's perspective on redefining traditional marketing methods.How businesses can align their marketing strategies with their core values.Practical advice for implementing a more humane approach to marketing.Sarah's experiences and success stories as a coach, author, and podcaster.Episode Summary:Join The Influence Army Waitlist HERE!Email me: contact@belove.mediaFor social Media:      https://www.facebook.com/MrMischaSubscribe and share with your business associates who could use a listen!

I'm excited to bring you this crossover episode with Rose Cox, founder of The HSP Business School and host of The Sensitive CEO Show ****podcast. She is one of the people I have been most excited to connect with across the globe the last few years, even though we have yet to meet IRL! In this conversation, we dive into the world of highly sensitive people (HSPs), empaths, and introverts in the business world, with plenty of permission slips to stop doing what drains you. We discuss how to build a sustainable, soulful business that aligns with your energy, while embracing the strengths and challenges of being a sensitive CEO. Finally, we touch on Rose's decision to pause her podcast (at least for now) after a year of releasing weekly episodes. More About Rose: Rose Cox is an ICF-credentialed and Certified Human Potential Coach, 3 Brains Coach, Business Coach + Strategist, Advanced Rapid Transformational Therapist, Clinical Hypnotherapist and Energy Practitioner. Rose's unique blend of soul, science, systems and strategy combines her 20+ years' experience in the fields of online business, hypnotherapy, coaching, and psychology to help her clients build a successful and sustainable business that is aligned with their energy and their soul. She works with highly sensitive people, empaths and introverts who have amazing gifts to share with the world but struggle with both the business strategies and mindset to fully step into their own.

Welcome the Driven Female Entrepreneurs Podcast! The weekly show that helps you dream bigger and achieve more in your business, by learning what works from successful female entrepreneurs.   In this episode In this episode of the Driven Female Entrepreneur Podcast, I speak with Sarah Santacroce, a Conscious Business Coach and the Humane Marketing Circle Community Host.  With more than a decade of experience in the business world, Sarah recognised a need for a more compassionate approach, which led her to embark on a transformative journey.  She found herself at odds with the aggressive and often impersonal marketing approaches that were prevalent in the industry. The world of business and marketing was evolving rapidly, and she felt there had to be a better way. This internal conflict and her desire to make a positive change pushed her to challenge the status quo. Now, Sarah works tirelessly to encourage heart-centred entrepreneurs to reconsider their marketing strategies. She provides them with the permission to embrace their unique style and incorporate empathy and kindness into their business practices. As the host of "The Humane Marketing Podcast" and the author of two books, she shares her insights, wisdom, and guidance to help others in their journey to create a more authentic and humane connection with their audience. Don't miss this episode as Sarah shares her transformation from a LinkedIn consultant to a compassionate marketing advocate. Gain valuable insights on infusing empathy and kindness into your business, challenging established marketing norms, and fostering a more authentic connection with your audience.  Stay tuned until the end of the episode to hear about the landing page challenge that our host is running this month. It's a conversation you won't want to miss!   "It's good to come from empathy. It's good to come from the heart, but when it comes to sales we also need to address the mind." - Sarah Santacroce   Highlights In this value-packed episode you'll learn: The power of authentic networking. A gentler but impactful alternative to sales funnels How to embrace responsible and conscious marketing. A manageable way to enhance client empowerment with signposts. The importance of shifting marketing intentions. How to balance empathy and perspective in sales. "In this new humane approach to marketing, authenticity shines. Bring more of yourself into your strategies, blurring the lines between business and personal, even embracing spirituality." - Sarah Santacroce   About Sarah Twelve years of running an online LinkedIn consulting business inspired a yearning in Sarah to create a global movement that encourages people to bring more empathy and kindness to business & marketing. She called it The Gentle Business Revolution™. Besides a podcast with the same name, Sarah is currently working on a book to inspire heart-centred entrepreneurs to question their assumptions when it comes to marketing & give them permission to market their business their way! When she's not working, she loves adventure & travelling, yoga & nature walks or hanging out with her family.   Connect with Sarah Website           Linkedin            Facebook            Twitter            Podcast                                       Access your Free Training (as mentioned in the show) The number one question I'm asked is: How can I get more clients?  To help you market your business and attract more of your ideal clients, don't miss this masterclass: Access your Free Training and Attract your Next Dream Client Here                                      Join the Driven Female Entrepreneur Community Come and join like-minded women in the FREE online community for Driven Female Entrepreneurs.  You can expect many more tips, tools and insights to support you as you build and grow your business to 6 figures and beyond!   > The Driven Female Entrepreneurs Club   About Your Host, Melitta Campbell Since 1997, Melitta has been using her ability to spot gaps between a company's goals and its strategy and positioning to help businesses become profitable and achieve growth - in as little as three months. By combining the insights gained from working directly with senior leaders for more than 20 years, her unique blend of art-school and business-school training, and her restless curiosity, Melitta has helped her clients identify new opportunities and develop creative solutions that add value in profitable and purposeful ways, that are straight-forward to implement and result in a clear competitive edge. After witnessing too many talented and passionate women fall short of their vision to make a profit and a difference, more recently, Melitta has brought her business, leadership and marketing expertise together with her personal experiences, to become a trusted advisor and coach for female-led businesses. Book your Free Business Clarity Call: www.melittacampbell.com

If you're an ambitious empath, you probably feel the misalignment of hustle culture marketing almost daily. I know this was a huge problem for me early on in my business before I really gave myself permission to do things my way. With that being said, I'm so excited to have Sarah Santacrose on the show today. Sarah is the author of Marketing Like We're Human, and it's her mission to show how we, as prosperous empaths, can revolutionize the marketing industry. You can WIN Sarah's book! We're partnering up to do a giveaway. All you have to do is leave a review of the show over on Apple Podcasts then shoot me a message on Instagram (@unboundedpotential) to let me know you've submitted it. I'll choose the winner on Monday, September 25th at 12noon ET and then mail you your book. Good luck! Visit this episode's show notes page here. - The Prosperous Empath® Podcast is produced by Heart Centered Podcasting.

Today's guest is a hippie turned business coach that has spent the last decade running a successful LinkedIn consulting business. This inspired her to create a global movement encouraging people to bring more empathy and kindness to business and marketing. She has written two books, including “Marketing Like We're Human” and “Selling Like We're Human.” She is the host of the Humane Marketing podcast and works with heart-centered entrepreneurs to question their assumptions when it comes to marketing and permit them to market their business their way, the gentle way! She shares a fresh perspective and doesn't shy away from calling things out that no longer work for many of us regarding the traditional marketing model. Please join me in welcoming Sarah Santacroce. In this episode we discuss: her thoughts on leadership: “Leadership is all about showing up and sharing your point of view. It's not about being the loudest voice out there but having the humility to create space for others to share their perspectives.” Her leadership roots go back to age 10, when she planned and led games and events with friends despite being an introvert. Her life growing up in a “hippie commune” when her parents banded with six other families to buy and live in an apartment building. Her thought processes behind choosing corporate marketing over being a translator, which she described as feeling lonely, and eventually opening her own business 15 years ago. Her start in entrepreneurship as a Virtual Assistant and stumbling into social media marketing. Her decision to become a LinkedIn Coach at the perfect time and help people transition into the LinkedIn space. What led her to write her book after a “breakdown and breakthrough” moment, including almost giving up her LinkedIn business. A trademark setback that almost derailed her book being published and her new brand. Her approach to how she provides her clients with what they need in a thoughtful and humane way. How she nurtures and sustains her network through connection and not through a business lens. What she's looking forward to in the year ahead. Links Sarah Santacroce on LinkedIn and Twitter. www.humane.marketing Humane Marketing podcast Books mentioned in this episode: “Marketing Like We're Human: A Radical Business Approach to Get New Clients with Integrity and Kindness (The Gentle Business Revolution)” by Sarah Santacroce “Mandalas & Marketing: 25 Stress Relieving Mandala Designs & 25 Beautiful Questions To Market Your Business From Within (The Gentle Business Revolution)” by Sarah Santacroce “Mandalas & Selling: 25 Stress Relieving Mandala Designs & 25 Beautiful Questions To Sell your Services From Within (The Gentle Business Revolution)” by Sarah Santacroce “Selling Like We're Human: A roadmap to selling from the heart in a new business world! (The Gentle Business Revolution)” by Sarah Santacroce Subscribing (or following) and leaving a rating and review wherever you are listening helps this podcast be discovered.

I find that purpose-driven and heart-centered business owners often have an instinct that they want to run their business differently.  They sense that they don't like the way they see other people marketing their businesses, but aren't sure what to do about it. Today I speak with Sarah Santacroce, who shares how she's challenging the status quo and revolutionizing the way we think about marketing. Sarah discusses the power of questioning assumptions, unlearning, and breaking habits to create a more connective and humane way of doing business. Sarah also shares her three phases of transformation and the 7 P's of Humane Marketing, showing us how we can put heart back into our businesses and build stronger relationships with our clients. If you're looking for a new approach to marketing that resonates with your values and connects with your clients on a deeper level, this episode is for you. Over a decade of running a successful LinkedIn Consulting business inspired a yearning in Sarah to create a global movement that encourages people to bring more empathy and kindness to business & marketing. As a ‘Hippie turned Business Coach', Sarah has written two books, hosts the Humane Marketing podcast and works with heart-centered entrepreneurs to question their assumptions when it comes to marketing & give them permission to market their business their way, the gentle way! Sarah shares a fresh perspective and doesn't shy away from calling things out that no longer work for many of us when it comes to the current marketing model. Her clients sometimes refer to her as ‘the female Seth Godin'.   And be sure to subscribe to The Self-Employed Life in Apple Podcasts or follow us on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss an episode.   Everything you need can all be found at jeffreyshaw.com.   Sarah Santacroce, thank you so much for being here! Remember, you might be in business FOR yourself but you are not in business BY yourself. Be your best self. Be proud and keep changing the world. Guest Contact – SarahSantacroce.com Humane.Marketing Marketing Like We're Human and Selling Like We're Human by Sarah Santacroce Sarah Santacroce on LinkedIn (in/sarahsantacroce) Sarah Santacroce on Twitter (@sarahsantacroce) Sarah Santacroce on YouTube (@sarahsantacroce9551) The Humane Marketing Podcast The One Page Marketing Plan Contact Jeffrey – SelfEmployedNewsletter.com Website Books Watch my TEDx LincolnSquare video and please share! Valuable complimentary resources to help you –   The Self-Employed Business Institute- You know you're really good at what you do. You're talented, you have a skill set. The problem is you're probably in a field where there is no business education. This is common amongst self-employed people! And, there's no business education out there for us! You also know that being self-employed is unique and you need better strategies, coaching, support, and accountability. The Self-Employed Business Institute, a five-month online education is exactly what you need. Check it out Take The Self-Employed Assessment! Ever feel like you're all over the place? Or frustrated it seems like you have everything you need for your business success but it's somehow not coming together? Take this short quiz to discover the biggest hidden gap that's keeping you from having a thriving Self-Employed Ecosystem. You'll find out what part of your business needs attention and you'll also get a few laser-focused insights to help you start closing that gap. Have Your Website Brand Message Reviewed! Is your website speaking the right LINGO of your ideal customers? Having reviewed hundreds of websites, I can tell you 98% of websites are not. Fill out the simple LINGO Review application and I'll take a look at your website. I'll email you a few suggestions to improve your brand message to attract more of your ideal customers. Fill out the application today and let's get your business speaking the right LINGO! Host Jeffrey Shaw is a Small Business Consultant, Brand Management Consultant, Business Coach for Entrepreneurs, Keynote Speaker, TEDx Speaker and author of LINGO and The Self Employed Life (May 2021). Supporting self-employed business owners with business and personal development strategies they need to create sustainable success.

You'd think it would be the default way of marketing, but it's not. And why is that?In this week's episode, I'm speaking with Sarah Santacroce about humane marketing.We also discuss:Showing up authenticallyHow gentle/humane marketing is different from mass marketing and automated systemsHardcore "bro marketing" and manipulation Unlearning what we know about marketingOther collaborative ways to market your business (summits, etc.)More about Sarah:Over a decade of running a successful LinkedIn Consulting business inspired a yearning in Sarah to create a global movement that encourages people to bring more empathy and kindness to business & marketing.As a ‘Hippie turned Business Coach', Sarah has written two books, hosts the Humane Marketing podcast, and works with heart-centered entrepreneurs to question their assumptions when it comes to marketing & give them permission to market their business their way, the gentle way!Sarah shares a fresh perspective and doesn't shy away from calling things out that no longer work for many of us when it comes to the current marketing model. Her clients sometimes refer to her as ‘the female Seth Godin'.The Humane Marketing PodcastMarketing Like We're Human (book)Selling Like We're Human (book)Get the Fill In the Blank One-Page Marketing PlanFor the full show notes and transcript, visit https://www.socialslowdown.com/humane-marketing-with-sarah-santacroceWatch the YouTube clipSupport the show

In this episode of Chasing the Insights, I talk to marketing legend Sarah Santacroce. Sarah talks to us about humane marketing. Over a decade of running a successful LinkedIn Consulting business inspired a yearning in Sarah to create a global movement that encourages people to bring more empathy and kindness to business & marketing. As a ‘Hippie turned Business Coach', Sarah has written two books, hosts the Humane Marketing podcast and works with heart-centered entrepreneurs to question their assumptions when it comes to marketing & give them permission to market their business their way, the gentle way! Sarah shares a fresh perspective and doesn't shy away from calling things out that no longer work for many of us when it comes to the current marketing model. Her clients sometimes refer to her as ‘the female Seth Godin'. Grab her 1-Page Marketing Plan here https://humane.marketing/one-page-marketing-plan/

In marketing your business or selling your products through the traditional marketing methods, did you ever feel uncomfortable, unsure, or question whether this is really you? That's exactly what our guest Sarah Santacroce felt while learning the trade of online marketing. Sarah is an entrepreneur in the Marketing Space. She's the Founder of the Humane Business Revolution and an internationally recognized LinkedIn Consultant, entrepreneur, podcaster, ‘Hippie turned Business Coach' and author of ‘Marketing Like We're Human‘ and ‘Selling Like We're Human‘ books. “We need a different way for entrepreneurs to … do marketing, and not just cookie cutter approaches. Yes, it has to do with the scarcity and the urgency, but… let's look at what they're meant for and let's use them in a different way with empathy and kindness.” - Sarah Santacroce So how do you start marketing with a humane approach? Here are some of the points Sarah raised that you can start applying today: False urgency, scarcity, wealth-signaling, ang gap selling marketing are some of the anxiety-inducing marketing methods. With how much the world has consciously evolved in the past few years, they are now an outdated approach to marketing. The reason why you are uncomfortable with selling and marketing has to do with worthiness and really believing in yourself. Share the positive outcome of your product/service and use empathy and perspective-taking to connect with your clients. “Let's empower our clients. Let's treat them as the smart human beings they are.” - Sarah Santacroce The voices that say, “In order to succeed, you need to run your business this way,” or “In order to sell, you need to market this way,” can be overwhelming, especially when you feel that these methods aren't true to who you are. The good news is that this is YOUR business. YOU are the one running it. YOU get to make the decision. And it's possible to make decisions that are true to you, allows you to connect with your clients, and still be profitable. Connect with Sarah: Website: https://sarahsantacroce.com/about/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahsantacroce/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SarahSantacroce Podcast: https://sarahsantacroce.com/podcast/             Books: https://sarahsantacroce.com/marketing-selling-like-were-human-books/ For full show notes, go to schulmanart.com/239 ++++++++++++++++++++

Over a decade of running a successful LinkedIn Consulting business inspired a yearning in Sarah Santacroce to create a global movement that encourages people to bring more empathy and kindness to business & marketing.As a ‘Hippie turned Business Coach', Sarah has written two books, hosts the Humane Marketing podcast and works with heart-centered entrepreneurs to question their assumptions when it comes to marketing and give them permission to market their business their way, the gentle way!Sarah shares a fresh perspective and doesn't shy away from calling things out that no longer work for many of us when it comes to the current marketing model. Her clients sometimes refer to her as ‘the female Seth Godin'.In todays' episode of Smashing the Plateau, you will learn how to market to the generation that caresSarah and I discuss:How Sarah made the transition to Humane Marketing [02:54]What Sarah did differently in her new business [05:56]How the principle of Humane Marketing may apply to consultants [08:54]How people will resonate with you [15:38]How much time your business needs to develop a Humane Marketing approach [17:33]The marketing concept of the Chinese bamboo tree [19:50]Building connections and relationships in the community [20:52]The definition of “community” [23:29]The 7 Ps of Humane Marketing in Mandala form [24:25]Learn more about Sarah at https://humane.marketing/one-page-marketing-plan/.Learn about the Humane Marketing Community at:http://www.humane.marketing/circleGet Sarah's Marketing book here:Marketing Like We're HumanSelling Like We're HumanThank you to Our Sponsors:The Smashing the Plateau CommunityCircle

Today's episode of the podcast is an interview with Sarah Santacroce, who talks all about humane marketing and her alternative model to the traditional 7 P's of marketing. I always love talking about this sort of stuff, as I think it's helpful to have open conversations about some of the marketing tools and tactics that are commonly used, because I have fallen for them and I'm sure many of you have too! What I really love about this episode is that we talk about how to actually market our business in a way that fits with us, and Sarah has some really interesting takes on why we should look at who we are, rather than looking at our avatar. KEY TAKEAWAYS COVERED IN THE PODCAST  What is wrong with traditional marketing What humane marketing looks like How to know when you're doing humane marketing THE ONE THING YOU NEED TO REMEMBER ABOVE ALL ELSE Humane marketing starts with awareness, the fact you're even mindful of it, is a great first step! HIGHLIGHTS YOU SIMPLY CAN'T MISS The 7 P's of humane marketing How we bring more empathy into the business world Why humane marketing is still about selling, just in a compassionate way LINKS TO RESOURCES MENTIONED IN TODAY'S EPISODE Sarah's Website Sarah's LinkedIn The 7 P's of Humane Marketing TRANSCRIPT Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the podcast. How are you doing? So we have an interview and if you listen to my episode last week, which hopefully you did, and if you haven't, go and take a listen cause it's, I was gonna say it's a good one. That always sounds so like full on. Like, I'm so amazing. Go listen to it. No. It covers a lot of good stuff. Oh man. And also, I talk about what's happening with the podcast, which is the fact that my interviews are gonna be stopping soon. So I have literally after this one, another three interviews, and that's it. And then it's just me. So if you wanna find out more on why I've done that, then obviously go back and listen to episode 267. But this week we have the lovely Sarah who talks about humane marketing and it's a really lovely conversation and actually probably quite an interesting one given. And I always taught love talking about this sort of stuff, and I try not to go on about it all too much because sometimes I think it can sound like we're being very negative and it's not that at all. I think it's helpful to have open conversations about some of these marketing tools and tactics that are used because I have fallen for them and Sarah has fallen for them. And also what I really love about this episode is we talk about how to actually do it in a way that fits with us. And she kind of has some really interesting takes on us looking at who we are rather than necessarily looking our other task straight off the bat. So I find that really, really interesting and she's so lovely and we've met a few times and I've been on her podcast and it's one of those people that she just kept being put back in my world and back in my world. So sometimes you have to go, I think we should be having a conversation, but it's a really, really good conversation. I know you're gonna like it, and like I said, enjoy it. We've only got a few of these interviews left. So I will hand you over to the lovely Sarah, and I will see you in a bit. Okay. I am really excited to welcome to the podcast today, the lovely Sarah Santacroce. Sarah, how are you doing? Sarah: I'm...

We have evolved so much consciously over the last 5 years alone that we cannot use the same strategies we have been using and expect them to work anymore. People are craving transparency and authenticity. This week's episode 78 of Female Founders Breaking Boundaries is about a new age of marketing!Have you ever felt like you were WAY too busy, stressed out, burnt out, and overwhelmed, so you were advised to delegate some tasks to take things off your plate and free up some time? Except, maybe it didn't work. If getting out of the day-to-day in your business was as simple as hiring more people, then why are you still feeling overwhelmed and burned out? You are not alone! Sometimes, simply delegating tasks doesn't work and instead shifts your workload from “doing” to “managing.”I invite you to use the exercise that our own C-Suite clients use to take the first step in turning your team into a well-oiled, self-managed machine- and get you out of the delegation catch-22. Download the exercise here to get started!In this episode of Female Founders Breaking Boundaries, my guest Sarah Santacroce shares the importance of breaking out of the status quo that is traditional marketing and actionable steps you can take right now to market in a way that makes both the seller and the buyer feel good. Some of the things Sarah and I cover in this episode are:How Sarah's upbringing led her to want to market differently and played into the values she practices in her business.  Comparing traditional marketing methods to the methods Sarah and I use with our own clients. How you can flip these traditional marketing practices and use them in a more humane and nurturing way.The differences between marketing and selling from a marketing perspective. Sarah's approach to the sales funnel that gives the power back to the client. The 7 P's of humane marketing.If you've practiced marketing in a way that left you feeling icky before, we've all been there! It was something we were taught we should do BUT there are other practices that work just as well and won't leave you feeling guilty about how you made the sale. If you enjoyed this episode, take a screenshot of the episode to share and tag me!  And don't forget to follow, rate, and review the podcast and tell me your key takeaways!Learn more about Female Founders Breaking Boundaries and Casey at https://she-suiteboutique.com/podcast/ CONNECT WITH SARAH SANTACROCE:WebsitePodcastLinkedInOne Page Marketing PlanBook #1 and #2CONNECT WITH CASEY GROMER:LinkedInCompany PersonaWork with Casey Gromer! Book an Advisory Call LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:Humane Marketing: The Difference Between Vision, Mission and Passion with Casey GromerA Fresh Wave of Marketing by Casey Gromer FFBB: Could You Outsource Your Sales? With Nikki Rausch 

One thing I've seen an explosion of recently is membership sites and with that comes the question what do I charge my members. It can feel tricky. Often people use membership sites early on as a tool to create a community who's then later a "captive audience" for upselling - you can then sell them higher value offers. In the end pricing for membership sites will always come down to who am I targeting, what's the value I'm offering and how am I using this offer - like where does it fit in the customer journey. Sarah Santacroce started her membership site for just that reason: to create community. This sprung from her Hippie background - she just wanted to be there to serve people. She wasn't really thinking about it from the perspective of a business owner. And that's part of what led to her under pricing the offer and consequent burn out. In This Episode:I sit down with Sarah to talk about her journey and understand the do's and don'ts from her experience of setting prices for a membership site. After over a decade of running a successful LinkedIn Consulting business, she was inspired to create a global movement that encourages people to bring more empathy and kindness to business & marketing.As a ‘Hippie turned Business Coach', Sarah has written two books, hosts the Humane Marketing podcast and works with heart-centered entrepreneurs to question their assumptions when it comes to marketing & give them permission to market their business their way, the gentle way! Sarah shares with us her own pricing journey as well as how she approached pricing for her membership site and how it's evolved. If you've thought about having such a site and are curious about one woman's experience, then this episode is definitely for you. Podcast Highlights0:00 Intro2:03 Getting to Know Sarah6:00 The Value Sarah Brings to Clients7:01 Pricing at the Beginning10:02 Burnout Changed Things13:10 Be there and Discuss19:07 Different Platforms21:01 Takeaway from Discussion23:50 Wrapping It UpHow to Reach Sarah:Twitter: https://twitter.com/sarahsantacroceLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahsantacroce/The One Page Marketing Plan: humane.marketing/1page *********Reach Out, Connect or Book a Call with JaneneGet started improving your business. Sometimes it's difficult to know where to begin. I suggest you Download the the self assessment Pricing Scorecard (www.thepricinglady.com/pricing-scorecard). Get a view of what's working and what's not working when it comes to pricing in your business. Figure out where to start making improvements.Get in touch with Janene. If you've got a question that needs answering, a challenge you're facing or you have suggestions for future topics or guests, let me know. Contact Janene (https://thepricinglady.com/contact/)Transform your business and life. My business is about helping you build a better business. One that's profitable and where you can confidently charge for the value you deliver. Let's see how we can work together. Book a complimentary Discovery Call today! (www.thepricinglady.com/book-a-call)

Over a decade of running a successful LinkedIn Consulting business inspired a yearning in Sarah to create a global movement that encourages people to bring more empathy and kindness to business & marketing. As a ‘Hippie turned Business Coach', Sarah has written two books, hosts the Humane Marketing podcast and works with heart-centered entrepreneurs to question their assumptions when it comes to marketing & give them permission to market their business their way, the gentle way! Sarah shares a fresh perspective and doesn't shy away from calling things out that no longer work for many of us when it comes to the current marketing model. Connect with us: http://www.humane.marketing Lexie's Website Lexie's Instagram

Grab Sarah's free gift HERE!

Marketing for Humans, Bringing the Human Back into Marketing.  Christina Frei is a marketing consultant for solo business owners, creator of Innate Marketing Genius archetype system, and author of the Generosity Practice Book: 40 Days to Unstoppable. She helps you become the compelling expert of your field, so you can get great clients by being you. Sarah Santacroce: Over a decade of running a successful LinkedIn Consulting business inspired a yearning in Sarah to create a global movement that encourages people to bring more empathy and kindness to business & marketing.As a ‘Hippie turned Business Coach', Sarah has written two books, hosts the Humane Marketing podcast and works with heart-centered entrepreneurs to question their assumptions when it comes to marketing & give them permission to market their business their way, the gentle way!Sarah shares a fresh perspective and doesn't shy away from calling things out that no longer work for many of us when it comes to the current marketing model. Her clients sometimes refer to her as ‘the female Seth Godin'.Sarah's Links: My visit to Sarah's Humane Marketing show. Grow Your Business without Social Media  WorkshopSarah Santacroce's WebsiteSarah's YouTube ChannelSarah's Twitter Feed Sarah's Freebie: The One-Page Marketing Plan - Humane Marketing Make Facebook One Click SaferThe Books Sarah Mentioned: The Membership Economy by Robbie Kellman BaxterThe Art of Gathering by Priya ParkerThe Book of Beautiful Questions by Warren BergerDiscover your Innate Marketing Genius type here. 

To some customers and even entrepreneurs, marketing can cause anxiety. This is because we are still using 50-year-old marketing strategies: tricking customers into always buying more and more, which is a very capitalism-oriented idea. This is how we are taught, and this is what is still being taught in marketing schools. Selling more and more has become the measure of success for all of us. In this episode, you will learn: What negative impact traditional marketing could be having on you and your business The changes that are happening now after the pandemic within marketing globally The seven Ps of humane and gentle marketing The difference between Marketing and Selling

Welcome to episode 61. Today I have Sarah Santacroce joining me. Over a decade of running a successful LinkedIn Consulting business inspired a yearning in Sarah to create a global movement that encourages people to bring more empathy and kindness to business & marketing. As a ‘Hippie turned Business Coach', Sarah has written two books, hosts the Humane Marketing podcast and works with heart-centered entrepreneurs to question their assumptions when it comes to marketing & give them permission to market their business their way, the gentle way! Sarah shares a fresh perspective and doesn't shy away from calling things out that no longer work for many of us when it comes to the current marketing model. Her clients sometimes refer to her as ‘the female Seth Godin'.  On this episode Sarah and I talk about what Humane Marketing is and why should people care about it. We talk about the experience that brought Sarah into this work and how she has to confidence to show up authentically. We then jump into a discussion about LinkedIn and talk about why it's such an important tool and how it can help us get more sales.   Specifically, here's what you will learn: How to bring more humanness to their marketing How to creatine authentic and real connections on a platform like LinkedIn What are marketing strategies are currently working to help get more sales   Get in touch with Sarah:  Website: humane.marketing Email: sarah@sarahsantacroce.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahsantacroce/   Ready to learn more? Tune in!   P.S: Let's talk!  Do you want a free coaching call with me?  If you're a coach, consultant, or course creator that: Wants to build a business but doesn't know how to sell yourself or your work. Is struggling to connect with ideal clients or close the sales you need to generate the revenue you want. Wants to stop feeling overwhelmed with busy work and can't find the time to focus on the high value strategic work you need to be doing Struggles to put a price on the value you bring Then you're in the right place! Let's connect to find a way for you to earn more profit, reach more clients and make a bigger impact.  Book a time with me today here: www.sellfromlove.com/discoverycall If you have a specific question or topic, you'd like me to talk about on the podcast I want to hear from you. Email me at finka@finka.ca to share it with me.  And if you enjoyed this episode, please pass it along to a friend or colleague that would also benefit from learning to Sell From Love.

Tune into this heartfelt episode with ‘Hippie turned Business Coach', Sarah Santacroce. With over a decade of running a successful LinkedIn Consulting business, Sarah became inspired to create a global movement that encourages people to bring more empathy and kindness to business & marketing. I enjoyed her mix between soul and strategy as she explained authenticity in marketing and sales but this isn't a strictly business conversation. We talk authenticity in every area of life including dating, parenting, career, and more. Sarah shares a fresh perspective and doesn't shy away from calling things out that no longer work for many of us when it comes to living out loud. If you are ready to unleash you heart on the next level, this is a perfect place to start.

The pandemic not only changes the way we live and work, and the way companies and marketers approach customers has also changed. In these times, the message for customers has to be more human. Nowadays, society, customers, and stakeholders increasingly demand sustainable products from companies in different ways; what are they doing for the planet, etc. How to reach them through humanized marketing strategy? Sarah Santacroce has a new approach to reaching them and uses the Humanize Marketing technique. In this episode, she shares her thoughts about this new way to approach customers.

The pandemic not only changes the way we live and work, and the way companies and marketers approach customers has also changed. In these times, the message for customers has to be more human. Nowadays, society, customers, and stakeholders increasingly demand sustainable products from companies in different ways; what are they doing for the planet, etc. How to reach them through humanized marketing strategy? Sarah Santacroce has a new approach to reaching them and uses the Humanize Marketing technique. In this episode, she shares her thoughts about this new way to approach customers.

While her new book, Selling Like We're Human, isn't about trademark issues, it was a trademark dispute the Swiss Sarah Santacroce got dragged into that led to the title. In this episode, you'll hear how Sarah chose her first title and then had to rebrand her book, herself, and her business received a letter from a US-based trademark lawyer (those darn, litigious Americans!). Lesson #1—do a Google and trademark search for your book title or any special terms you want to use. However, once that story's out of the way, Sarah tells us about what it means to sell like a human, and how she wrote a book full of permission slips for those who don't like selling so they can sell a different, better way. You'll also see how Sarah's community helped her write her book, and how her book is helping her build her community. Links: Twitter LinkedIn sarahsantacroce.com

Over a decade of running a successful LinkedIn Consulting business inspired a yearning in Sarah to create a global movement that encourages people to bring more empathy and kindness to business & marketing. As a ‘Hippie turned Business Coach', Sarah has written two books, hosts the Humane Marketing podcast and works with heart-centered entrepreneurs to question their assumptions when it comes to marketing & give them permission to market their business their way, the gentle way! Sarah shares a fresh perspective and doesn't shy away from calling things out that no longer work for many of us when it comes to the current marketing model. Her clients sometimes refer to her as ‘the female Seth Godin'. In today's episode guest, Sarah Santacroce as a Hippie turned Business Coach has written two books, hosts the Humane Marketing podcast and works with heart-centered entrepreneurs to question their assumptions when it comes to marketing and give them permission to market their business their way, the gentle way. She has also been running a successful LinkedIn Consulting business for over a decade. Sarah was sometimes referred to by her clients as the female Seth Godin. Here are some key takeaways: -understand what is humane marketing is all about -how to market your business in humane way -best way to handle pushbacks -where and how to start in humane marketing

Do you cringe when you think about marketing and selling your book? You know that promoting your book is a must if you want it in the hands of your readers. But how can you feel good while doing it?Our guest today believes there is a way.After years running a successful LinkedIn consulting business, Sarah Santacroce encourages people to bring more empathy and kindness to business and marketing. As 'Hippie turned Business Coach' Sarah has written two books, hosts the Humane Marketing podcast and works with heart-centred entrepreneurs to question their assumptions about marketing.Resources mentioned in the show:Sarah's book: Selling Like We're Human for a gentle approach to selling.Sarah's podcast: Humane Marketing.Get the One-Page marketing plan.Find more on Sarah's website. Here's to a more humane way to promote your book!

If you're a business owner who wants to build your brand on your terms, and you've had enough of hustle culture and sleazy marketing (and since you're listening to this podcast I have a hunch that's the case) I think you're really going to like the conversation you're about to hear. Today's guest is Sarah Santacroce, who describes herself as a “Hippie turned Business Coach”. Not only is Sarah the author of two books and the host of the Humane Marketing podcast – she also works with heart-centered entrepreneurs to question their assumptions when it comes to marketing & give them permission to market their business their way, the gentle way! Over a decade of running a successful LinkedIn Consulting business inspired a yearning in Sarah to create a global movement that encourages people to bring more empathy and kindness to business & marketing. Sarah shares a fresh perspective and doesn't shy away from calling things out that no longer work for many of us when it comes to the current marketing model. Her clients sometimes refer to her as “the female Seth Godin”. The story of how Sarah ended up a guest on this podcast is funny and it certainly put a smile on my face when it happened – so let's dive in and hear all about that, and also about Sarah's recent rebranding journey and how it ties in with her Humane Marketing approach. Shownotes Connect with Sarah: www.humane.marketing www.sarahsantacroce.com https://ch.linkedin.com/in/sarahsantacroce www.twitter.com/sarahsantacroce www.humane.marketing/1page

Brian chats with Sarah Santacroce, a LinkedIn guru turned humane marketing revolutionary. Sarah opens up about the breakdowns and breakthroughs that led to her living her passion for bringing empathy and kindness to business and marketing. On the episode, Sarah discusses how to succeed in online marketing by finding your purpose and being your true, authentic self. She also shares the pitfalls of buzzy marketing phrases, and how using softer words can bring compassion to current and future clients. Episode Highlights Mission-driven entrepreneurs focus on their why. To Sarah, mission-driven business owners start by reflecting on what they care about before they jump in and execute on an idea. These savvy entrepreneurs think about their values and ideal clients just as much as their business opportunities. “What is your big question that you want to answer by helping others,” Sarah said on the episode. “Reflecting on the things that you made your why.” Marketing doesn't have to be slimy. Online marketing can sometimes feel pushy, aggressive, and slimy, Sarah said. In fact, Sarah once contemplated leaving the industry because she felt she had too much empathy for modern marketing. Only after having a breakdown, did she have a breakthrough that humane marketing with an emphasis on human connection could work in the modern era, too. “Because we focused so much on the technology -- the scaling, the always bigger, always more -- we lost touch with the actual relationship that we have with other people that are humans,” Sarah said. Passion first. Clients later. One of Sarah's seven humane marketing principles is that passion and purpose come first, and clients come later. This type of thinking reverses the conventional marketing paradigm of a scarcity mindset -- there are only so many clients. Instead, it emphasizes finding the right clients. “If you bring more of you to your marketing, that will resonate with the right clients,” Sarah said. One shred of evidence this is working in the real world is with the “Great Resignation,” a term coined as record numbers of American workers quit their jobs. Sarah says a similar trend is happening with customers, who are now willing to pay a little bit more to buy a service from a business or brand that aligns with their values. “That matters for entrepreneurs to say, ‘I have an opinion, and I have these values.' They matter,” Sarah said. Resources + Links The One Page Marketing Plan Sarah's website Humane Marketing Podcast Marketing Like We're Human Sarah's Social Media: Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook Brian's Social Media: Twitter, Instagram, Facebook      About Brian and the Mission Driven Business Podcast  Brian Thompson, JD/CFP, is a tax attorney and certified financial planner who specializes in providing comprehensive financial planning to LGBTQ+ entrepreneurs who run mission-driven businesses. The Mission Driven Business podcast was born out of his passion for helping social entrepreneurs create businesses with purpose and profit. On the podcast, Brian talks with diverse entrepreneurs and the people who support them. Listeners hear stories of experiences, strength, and hope and get practical advice to help them build businesses that might just change the world, too.

Welcome to the newest episode of The Ambitious Introvert. Today I'm joined by Sarah Santacroce - we're talking about a subject that's really close to my heart as a business coach and is important to you as an introverted business owner - marketing. Sarah believes that marketing should be approached with kindness and can truly be something that is introvert-friendly. I loved hearing her take on how we can revolutionise marketing to be focused on connection. Enjoy!Why Sarah's mission is to bring more empathy and marketing back to online businessHow Sarah overcame an expected re-brandFilling the gap between humanised sales and modern marketingWhy you should only work with your ideal clientsPrice transparency and why Sarah believes you should always post your pricesLinkedIn as the premier platform for introvertsVisit this episode's blog post here: https://emmalouiseparkes.com/how-to-humanise-your-marketing-with-sarah-santacroce/ Connect with Emma on Instagram: @emmalouparkes

Welcome to the Kayleigh O'Keefe Show!   Sarah is the mastermind behind the Humane Marketing movement, which brings a gentler and more human approach to the marketing world. Sarah explains that most marketing techniques encourage potential customers to buy out of fear and shame. And while this approach may draw in clients in the short-term, these customers probably aren't the ones who will really benefit from your product. Sarah tells listeners that entrepreneurs must first figure out who they are in order to truly resonate with their ideal audience.   Tune into this week's episode of The Kayleigh O'Keefe Show to learn more about: • Marketing with intention and integrity • The NEW 7 Ps of Marketing • The value in addressing your target audience as a competent customer • And how to rumble, rise and resonate in order to achieve your version of success!   Quotes • “About four years ago, I had this breakdown that led to a breakthrough, like they often do, and realized something's broken because I'm not showing up as a whole human being.” (05:14-05:28) • “There are all of these entrepreneurs who are just using [hype marketing techniques] because that's the only thing that's out there. We feel like that's how it works if you want to build an online business….And so, you kind of get into this trap of really doing things that don't feel right.” (12:28-12:50) • “Are you empowering your clients to make that decision? Are you giving them all of the tools and the information that they need to make that decision? Or, on the other hand, are you disempowering them? Are you hiding information that they would actually need?” (15:19-15:35) • “The gurus are sick of being gurus. We don't want to be the gurus anymore. We don't want to show up and do the dog and pony show every time. We want people to work with us and co-create and use collective intelligence and do things together.” (21:11-21:30) • “Have you done that inner work? Do you know who you are? Are you grounded? Have you done your money work? All of that, it's part of the journey of a humane marketer.” (28:14-28:28) • “It's really important to figure out who you are so that you then resonate with your ideal clients.” (35:24-35:27)   Links  www.humane.marketing www.sarahsantacroce.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahsantacroce/   Get published with Soul Excellence Publishing: ​​https://soulexcellencepublishing.com/ Visit Kayleigh's website: https://kayleighokeefe.com/  Schedule an Author Discovery Call: https://calendly.com/kayleigh-okeefe/solo-book-writing-publishing     Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

The traditional model of marketing and sales can feel awkward and inauthentic, especially for entrepreneurs who are introverted. The good news is that there is a different way to do business, sales, and marketing.  In this episode, I get to speak with the host of the The Gentle Business Revolution Podcast, Sarah Santacroce -  who is changing the current marketing paradigm by creating a global movement that encourages people to bring more empathy and kindness to their business and marketing. If you want to know more about how to market your business the gentle way and be your most authentic self, join me in this episode.  Time Stamps: Using LinkedIn and social media as an introvert (4:30)  Feeling like you don't belong in business and entrepreneurship (5:39) There is a different way to do business and marketing (6:03) “I hate marketing” (6:56) Why do people hate marketing so much? (7:25) Being your authentic self in marketing (8:20) Ditching the “shoulds” (9:30) Hyped marketing techniques (10:37) Selling more without giving value (11:10) The fear of rejection (12:50) Marketing on your own terms (13:05) Not buying, out of fear (13:25) Female entrepreneurs using the gentle marketing approach (16:05) The triple win (17:00) Personal development and pragmatic business advice (17:29) Doing vs being (17:50) Doing the inner work before getting into sales and marketing (19:40) Your marketing superpower (20:55) Connect With Lisa Evans speakingsavvy.com.au Connect with me on Facebook and Instagram Connect with me on LinkedIn Connect With Sarah Santacrocesarahsantacroce.com Connect with Sarah on LinkedIn Follow Sarah on Facebook For full show notes visit: Businesschatpodcast.com.au

"Business is Tough."  "You Need to Work Hard."  "Dominate the Industry."  "Crush the Competition."  These phrases, and the mindset behind them, are increasingly problematic for the conscious consumer. In this inspiring interview, Sarah talks about the power of gentleness in business and marketing... (And in Aikido, because.... Well... I just always have to mention Aikido.) Listen in to find out more about how you can make the shift from a fear-based, scarcity mentality to an authentic, gentle and effective approach to marketing and business.You won't regret listening to this life-changing conversation. 

Sarah Santacroce is a specialist in hard sellin', "value-stackin'," high pressure sales tactics you can exploit to close every sale, dominate your market, crush your competitors into the dust and make tons of cash - just kidding… she's the opposite of all that! In fact, Sarah wants to change the current marketing paradigm - and if you've ever told yourself you 'hate marketing' or felt uneasy with some of the tactics used, she's right up your strasse. Sarah is all about marketing effectively, but bringing more empathy and kindness to the whole process… she calls it The Gentle Business Revolution and she's author of the new book 'The Gentle Marketing Revolution: Grow your business your way, with integrity and kindness.' https://www.thegentlemarketingrevolution.com/book Listen in to hear how you can join the Gentle Marketing Revolution and discover the 7 Ps of marketing with integrity and kindness... then get more from Sarah at: https://sarahsantacroce.com

As in many of our episodes, today's show focuses on a unique aspect of business-building. If marketing is an unwelcome task on your to-do list, then join us to learn about heart-centered marketing. Find out more about the new revolution that my guest has begun! Sarah Santacroce is all about heart-centered marketing. Her revolution is the Gentle Marketing Revolution. You'll learn about marketing genuinely and authentically, tapping into Sarah's 7 P's of Marketing. She comes from Switzerland and will share her unique marketing perspective, along with helpful resources that you can use in your business. Show Highlights: ●     Sarah's Gentle Marketing Revolution ●     How Sarah was led into her work as an Online LinkedIn Consultant ●     The process of devising the Gentle Marketing solution ●     Why people want to build their business with kindness and integrity ●     7 Pieces to the Gentle Marketing Revolution: ○     Passion: What is the story of the WHY behind your business? ○     Personal Power: Who am I, and what do I want? ○     People: Who are the people I want to serve? ○     Product: Do my products and services align with my values? ○     Pricing: What feels good to me and creates a win-win-win relationship? ○     Promotion: What platforms feel right to me? ○     Partnership: How can I benefit from collaboration? ●     Final words from Sarah: “Give yourself permission and listen to your intuition.” Resources: Find Sarah: http://www.sarahsantacroce.com/ (Sarah Santacroce)  Get Sarah's One-Page Marketing Plan at http://www.sarahsantacroce.com/1page (Sarah Santacroce) https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahsantacroce/ (Linkedin: Sarah Santacroce)  

My guest for today is Sarah Santacroce who is on a mission is to bring more empathy and kindness into the business world through The Gentle Business Revolution. Sarah is an internationally recognized LinkedIn Specialist & Online Presence Mentor and has a decade of experience in online marketing. Her trademarked Gentle Marketing model helps entrepreneurs and business owners approach marketing with a fresh lens. She is an influencer in her field and is regular speaker at conferences, podcasts and radio shows. In today's episode, we discuss about : Origins of Gentle Business Revolution Introverts and the workplace Authenticity vs Attention Empathy and Kindness in Marketing Book Recommendations Parting Thoughts To download a free gentle marketing plan, click here . If you have any feedback or want to be a part of the show, do drop a note at thegentleproject.kindness@gmail.com or visit our website for more information. Do tune in every week on a Wednesday for the latest release. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/thegentleproject/message

How can you make you and your business stand out on social media, but without being pushy, salesy and in your face? This week's guest, Sarah Santacroce, is starting a revolution! 12 years of running an Online LinkedIn Consulting business inspired a yearning in Sarah to create a global movement that encourages people to bring more empathy and kindness to business & marketing. She called it The Gentle Business Revolution™. Besides a podcast with the same name Sarah is currently working on a book to inspire heart-centered entre-preneurs to question their assumptions when it comes to marketing & give them permission to market their business their way! Join us as Sarah shares some expert advice on how you can win clients on social media – without the sleazy sales techniques!

Sarah is an internationally recognized LinkedIn Specialist & Online Presence Mentor who has personally coached over 1,900 entrepreneurs. She helps them position themselves as experts on LinkedIn so they get clients with ease.In addition, Sarah is known for helping fellow entrepreneurs market their business authentically & anxiety-free, sell their services & make a difference. She's also the founder of The Gentle Business Revolution movement and host of the podcast with the same name.When she's not working, she loves adventure & traveling, yoga & nature walks or hanging out with her family.Connect with Sarah at http://www.sarahsantacroce.com/Listen and subscribe to the Gentle Business Revolution Showhttps://sarahsantacroce.com/podcast/ Our GDPR privacy policy was updated on August 8, 2022. Visit acast.com/privacy for more information.

 Learn how to promote your business online and get more clients on LinkedIn Learn how to use LinkedIn without being sleazy, aggressive and salesy Find out all how to increase your visibility and brand ...

Sarah Santacroce is an internationally recognized LinkedIn Specialist & Online Presence Mentor who has personally coached over 1,900 entrepreneurs.

Sarah Santacroce is an independent LinkedIn Specialist, Online Presence Mentor and founder of Simplicity Small Biz. She helps people convert their presence online into paying customers. She is the creative brain behind the LinkedIn Challenge, an event that has helped 1700+ people so far to improve their knowledge about using LinkedIn for business. She has helped hundreds of clients from all over the world breathe life into their LinkedIn profiles, put together a strategy for their online presence or generated leads for them by using LinkedIn and social selling strategies.  She also coaches fellow introverted business owners on how to run an online business, and is the founder of the Introvert Business Podcast.  Period in full time business and core revenue streams  She has been in full time business for more than 7 years. In her LinkedIn business, she works with corporations where she does trainings for HR departments, sales departments, and the people in marketing. She also works with entrepreneurs through one-on-one coaching and teaches people in transition how to get recruited on LinkedIn. She has a series of products like video trainings that generate revenue for her without having to trade her one-on-one time.  She also does affiliate marketing and is planning to host her first retreat for introverted online entrepreneurs. The retreat will be an offline event where they will get together and talk about their businesses, and come up with strategies on how to take it to the next level.  The retreat  She says it will be a quiet, reflective, and respectful retreat with lots of fun. The link for the event is http://www.sarahsantacroce.com/retreat/ (www.sarahsantacroce.com/retreat/)   Starting out in business  When she moved to California with her husband and their new second-born, she could consequently not go back to her previous job, and decided to take some time off to spend with her kids. After about a year, she decided to come up with her own business plan and choose to focus on helping business owners with their administrative needs, which was what she was good at. That eventually changed, because with the social media boom at that time, she realised how she was able to use social media to create buzz for her own business.  She therefore choose to move away from administrative/virtual assistant work to teaching entrepreneurs/small business owners how to market their businesses through social media. When she moved back to Switzerland with her family in 2010, she decided to start offering the social media training/marketing services.  Focusing on LinkedIn  She decided to specialise on LinkedIn much later after she discovered that things in Switzerland were very traditional and slow. Most people didn't use social media for business. The one platform that the Switzerland B2B industry was interested in most, that she was well-versed in, was LinkedIn. After a year of offering her general social media services, she decided to zero-in on LinkedIn.  Corporate career Vs. Business  Sarah says she would never go back to formal employment. She calls herself unemployable because she creates success on her own terms now. She defines how success should be in her life, which she could not do in a corporate environment.  Tip 1: I don't think business is for everybody. I don't think everybody should leave their corporate job and become an entrepreneur. Getting side hustles is however a great option for anyone in a corporate job  Tip 2: I don't advice you to just leave your job and focus on your business idea  Replacing full time job income in a business  Tip 1: If you have a business model that can guarantee to replace your full time income then obviously, go for it!  Tip 2: Full time business is not for everybody because some people need the structure of a corporate job and they may need a team. As an entrepreneur, you are making up your own structure and it can sometimes be very lonely as an...

Find out the 3 reasons you're leaving money on the table. LinkedIn is 277% more effective for lead generation than Twitter & FB. Sarah Santacroce gives her top tips for effectively using LinkedIn. ThinkLikeAJournalist.com   See the show notes.

Sarah Santacroce, founder of Simplicity, shares LinkedIn tips specifically for introverted entrepreneurs, alongside other business growth strategies. Full episode show notes at theintrovertentrepreneur.com/2016/11/23/ep137-sarah-santacroce-linkedin-introvert-business-building    

Sarah Santacroce is a LinkedIn Specialist & Online Presence Mentor who helps people convert their online presence into paying clients.  She's also the creative brain behind the LinkedIn Challenge, an event that has helped over 1600 people to improve their knowledge about using LinkedIn for business.  Sarah has helped hundreds of clients from all over the world breathe life into their LinkedIn profiles.