Podcasts about Cesar Chavez

Guest Bio: Renee Kylestewa Begay is from the Pueblo of Zuni in Southwest New Mexico. She is a mother to three daughters and married to high school sweetheart Donnie Begay. During her undergrad, she founded the Nations movement—a national ministry...Good morning. It's October 30th, 2025. Can you believe it? So I'm releasing these videos. Today's videos on resilience. Four distinct cultures coming at you. Jenny McGrath. Me, Danielle, my friend Renee Begay from New Mexico and Rebecca Wheeler, Walston. Tune in, listen to the distinctly different places we're coming from and how we're each thinking about resilience. And then find a way that that impacts you and your own community and you can create more resilience, more generosity, more connection to one another. It's what we need in this moment. Oh, and this is The Arise Podcast, and it's online. If you want to download, listen to it. There you can as well.   Renee Begay (00:14):Okay, cool. Okay, so for those watching my introduction, I'll do it in my language. So my name is Renee Bega. I just spoke in my language, which is I'm from the Pueblo of Zuni tribe in Southwest New Mexico, and I shared the way that we relate to one another. So you share the clan system that you're from. So being a matrilineal society, we belong to our, there's lineage and then we are a child of our father's side of the family. And so I belong to the Sandhill Crane clan as my mom is my grandma. And then my daughters are Sandhill Crane, and then I'm a child of the Eagle Clan, which is my dad's side. So if I do introduce myself in Zuni and I say these clans, then people know, oh, okay, you're from this family, or I'm, or if I meet others that are probably Child of Crane, then I know that I have responsibility toward them. We figure out responsibility toward each other in the community and stuff, who's related to all those things. Yeah. And here in New Mexico, there are 19 Pueblo tribes, two to three Apache tribes, and then one Navajo nation tribe. So there's a large population of indigenous tribes here in New Mexico. So grateful and glad to be here.(02:22):Yeah. I guess I can answer your question about what comes to mind with just the word resilience, but even you saying a d Los Muertos, for me that was like, oh, that's self-determination, something that you practice to keep it going, to remember all those things. And then when you mentioned the family, Jenny, I was like, I think I did watch it and I looked on my phone to go look for it, and I was like, oh yeah, I remember watching that. I have a really short-term memory with books or things that I watch. I don't remember exactly details, but I know how I felt. And I know when I was watching that show, I was just like, whoa, this is crazy.(03:12):So yes, I remember watching that docuseries. And then I think Rebecca, when you're talking about, I was thinking through resilience feels like this vacillation between different levels, levels of the individual in relation to the community, how much do we participate in self discovery, self-determination, all those things, but then also connect it to community. How do we continue to do that as a community to stay resilient or keep practicing what we've been taught? But then also generationally too, I think that every generation has to figure out based on their experience in this modern world, what to do with the information and the knowledge that is given to us, and then how to kind of encourage the next generation too. So I was just thinking of all those scenes when I was listening to you guys.Rebecca (04:25):Yeah, when you said the generational thing that each generation has to decide what to do with the information given to them. This past weekend in the last week or so was that second New Kings march, and there's some conversation about the fact that it was overwhelmingly white and in my community that conversation has been, we weren't there. And what does that mean, right? Or the noticing that typically in this country when there are protests around human rights, typically there's a pretty solid black contingency that's part of that conversation. And so I just have been aware internally the conversation has been, we're not coming to this one. We're tired. And when I say I say black women specifically in some instances, the larger black community, we are tired.(05:28):We are tapping out after what happened in the last election. And I have a lot of ambivalence about that tapping out. I'm not sure how I feel about it, but it does make me think about what you said that in this moment my community is taking the information given to them and making a conscious choice to do something different than what we have done historically. So that's what I thought about when you were mentioning the generational sort of space that's there. What do we do with that and what does that mean about what we pass to the next generation?Danielle (06:09):Through this moment. So I think it's interesting to say, I think Rebecca said something about does your resilience, what does it feel grounded in or does it feel solid? I can't remember exactly how she put it. And yeah, she's frozen a bit on my screen, so I'll check in with her when she gets back. And I would say I felt like this week when I was thinking about my ancestors, I felt in having conversations in my family of origin around race and assimilation, just that there was this in-between generation. And I mean like you mentioned the voting, you saw it in our voting block, the Latino voting block pretty clearly represented.(07:09):There was this hard push for assimilation, really hard push and the in-between. And I feel like my generation is saying that didn't work. And so we know the stories of our ancestors, but how did we interpret those stories to mean many of us, I would say in our community to mean that we don't fight for justice? How did we reinterpret those stories to mean the best course was silence or forgetting why people migrated. The reason for migration was not because there was a hate for our land. That's very clear to me. The reason for migration was what we see now happening with Venezuela. It was ongoing oppression of our people through the, well, in my case, through the Mexican government and collaboration with the United States government that exacerbated poverty and hunger, which then led to migration. So do we forget that? It seems like we did. And in some, I wondered to myself, well, how did a guy like Cesar Chavez or I, how did they not forget that? How did they remember that? So I think resilience for me is thinking Los was like, who were my ancestors remembering why they moved and remembering what this moment is asking me to do. Is it asking me to move somewhere and maybe physically move or mentally move or I don't know what the movement means, but it's some kind of movement. So that's kind of what I thinkRenee (09:07):I'm seeing the importance of, even just in this conversation, kind of the idea of the trans narrative across all communities, the importance of storytelling amongst each other, sharing stories with each other of these things. Like even just hearing you Danielle of origins of reasons for migration or things like that, I'm sure very relatable. And we have migration stories too, even within indigenous on this continent and everything. So I think even just the importance of storytelling amongst each other to be able to remember together what these things are. I think even just when we had the opportunity to go to Montgomery and go to the Rosa Parks Museum, it, you hear the macro story of what happened, but when you actually walk through the museum and read every exhibition, every paragraph, you start learning the micro stuff of the story there. Maybe it wasn't everyone was a hundred percent, there was still this wrestling within the community of what to do, how to do it, trying to figure out the best way to do good amongst each other, to do right by each other and stuff like that. So I just think about the importance of that too. I think Danielle, when you mentioned resilience, a lot of times it doesn't feel good to practice resilience.(11:06):For me, there's a lot of confusion. What do I do? How do I do this? Well, a lot of consultation with my elders, and then every elder has a different, well, we did this, and then you go to the next elder, oh, well we did this. And so one of my friends said three people in the room and you get four ideas and all these things. So it's just like a lot of times it doesn't feel good, but then the practice of it, of just like, okay, how do we live in a good way with each other, with ourselves, with what faith you have, the spiritual beliefs that you hold all those, and with the land, all that stuff, it's just, yeah, it's difficult to practice resilience.Rebecca (12:03):I think that that's a good point. This idea, the reminder that it doesn't always feel good. When you said it, it's like, well, duh. But then you sit for a minute and you go like, holy crap, it doesn't feel good. And so that means I have to be mindful of the ways in which I want to step away from it, take a step back from it, and not actually enter that resilience. And it makes me think about, in order to kind of be resilient, there has to be this moment of lament or grief for the fact that something has happened, some type of wounding or injury or threat or danger that is forcing you to be resilient is requiring that of you. And that's a moment I always want to bypass. Who has time to, no, I don't have time to grieve. I got stuff I got to do, right?(13:06):I need to make it to the next moment. I need to finish my task. I need to keep it together. Whatever the things are. There are a thousand reasons for which I don't want to have that moment, even if I can't have it in the moment, but I need to circle back to it. Once the chaos sort of settles a little bit, it's very difficult to actually step into that space, at least for me personally, probably somewhat out of the cultural wider narratives that I inhabit. There's not a lot of invitation to grief element or if I'm very skilled at sidestepping that invitation. So for me, that's what comes to mind when I think about it doesn't feel good. And part of what doesn't feel good for me is that what there is to grieve, what there is to process there to lament. Who wants to do that?(14:10):I think I told you guys outside of the recording that my son had a very scary car incident this week, and several people have asked me in the last 48 hours, are you how? Somebody said to me, how is your mother heart? Nothing in me wants to answer that question. Not yesterday, not today. I'm almost to the point, the next person that asked me that, I might smack you because I don't have time to talk about that. Ask me about my kid. Then we maybe could ask me about myself and I would deflect to my kid really fast.Jenny (14:59):I'm thinking about, for me, resilience feels so connected to resistance. And as you were sharing stories of migration, I was thinking about my great great grandparents who migrated from Poland to the States. And a few years ago we went to Poland and did an ancestry trip and we went to a World War II museum. I really traced World War I through World War ii, but it really actually felt like a museum to resistance and seeing resistance in every tier of society from people who were Nazis soldiers smuggling out letters that were written in urine to people making papers for people to be able to get out.(16:05):And I found myself clinging to those stories right now as ice continues to disappear people every day and trying to stay situated in where and how can I resist and where and how can I trust that there are other people resisting even if I don't know how they are, and where can I lean into the relationships and the connections that are fostering collective resistance? And that's how I'm finding it as I am sitting with the reality of how similar what we are experiencing in the US is to early days of Nazi Germany and how can I learn from the resistance that has already taken place in former atrocities that are now being implemented by the country that I live in.Rebecca (17:41):That makes me think, Jenny of a couple of things. One, it's hard to breathe through this that we are perilously close to Nazi Germany. That feels like there's not a lot of vocabulary that I have for that. But it also makes me think of something that Renee said about going to the Rosa Parks Museum in Montgomery, and stepping really close to the details of that story, because I don't know if you remember this, Renee, but there's one exhibit that talks about this white law firm that was the money behind the Montgomery bus boycott and was the legal underpinning behind that. And I don't think I knew until I went to that museum and saw that it's like one picture on one poster in the middle of this big exhibit. And I don't think I knew that. I know a lot of things about Rosa Parks and the Montgomery Busboy.(18:53):I've taught them to my kids. We know about her and the bus and all of that, but the details and to know that there was this group of white people in 1950 something that stepped forward to be resistant in that moment. And it's like, gosh, I didn't know that. And it makes me, Jenny have the question, how many more times has that happened in history? And we don't actually have that information. And so the only larger narrative that I have access to is how white people were the oppressors and the aggressors in that. And that's true. I'm not trying to take anything away from that. But also there was this remnant of people who said, not me, not my house, not my family, not today, not tomorrow, not at any time in my lifetime. Am I going to be on the wrong side of history on this conversation? And I think that that's probably true in many places and spaces that we don't have access to the detail of the stories of resistance and alliance that is there across people groups, and we don't have that information.Jenny (20:21):It makes me think of something that's front of mind just because we were in Detroit last week as we talk about Rosa Parks, she lived the end of her days in Detroit in a home that the CEO of Little Caesar's spot for her,Wow. Where it's like one, it's tragic to me that such a heroine had had to need some financial assistance from some white CEO, and that was what that CEO decided to use his money towards is really beautiful for me. And you can go to her house in Detroit. It's just a house now. But it is, it's like how many of these stories we know that actually are probably for good reason if they're happening right now, because it's not always safe to resist. And we were just having breakfast with a friend today talking about, and or what a brilliant show it is and how resistance probably needs to be underground in a lot of ways in this current moment.Danielle (21:54):Do you know the animal for Los Martos, Renee? Maybe it, it's the Libre. It's the spirit animals from Mexican folklore, and they come out and they have to, traditionally they represent three of the four elements like air, water, earth, and fire. And so they put them on the altars and they're like spiritual protectors or whatever. And they highlighted during this time, and I don't know if any of y'all have seen some of the videos of, there's a couple videos where there's a couple of these more racist folks trying to chase after a person of color, and they just trip and they fall out their face on the pavement and talking with a couple of friends, some Mexican friends, they're like, oh, Libre has got that. They just bam flat, just the idea that the earth tripped them up or something. I love that. Something in the spirit wall brought them to their knees. So yesterday I took Luis is like, what are you doing? I made him go get me all this spray paint. And I put these wood panels together and partly we had at home and I was using his wood. He's like, don't paint all of it, but I was painting this panel of this que and I'm going to put it in downtown, and it's not something I'm doing and I'm thwarting the government. But it did feel resilient to paint it or to think about the spirit world tripping up these guys. It gave me some joyRebecca (23:42):But I actually think, and I've talked to you about this a little bit, Danielle, I think what I love about that is that there's something in the collective story of Mexican people that you can borrow from, that you can pull from to find this moment of resilience, of resistance, of joy, of relief release. And I think we need to do more of that. So often when we step into our collective narratives, it's at the pain points, it is at the wounding points. And I think that I love that there's something of something that you can borrow that is a moment of strength out of our collective narrative. I think that that's actually how you grow resilience. I think it is how you learn to recognize it is you borrow from this collective narrative, this moment of strength so that you can bring it with you in this moment. I think that that's who Rosa Parks has been in my community to me in my family, I think I've told you guys this before, but I have a daughter who's now in college, but when she was in elementary school, we had a whole thing for a semester with a bus driver that just had it out for black and brown kids on her bus route to the point that all the white kids in our little suburban neighborhood were like, what the heck is wrong with a bus driver coming after all the brown people?(25:13):And I remember actually borrowing from the story of Rosa Parks to say to my daughter, this is how we're going to handle this. What does it look like for you with dignity, but really firmly say, you cannot mistreat me. You will not mistreat me on this bus route. And so to me, the story, what you're telling Danielle, is that same sort of, let me borrow from this folklore, from this narrative, something to give to myself, to my family, to my people in this moment. I love that. I'm going to borrow it. I'm going to steal it. So send me a picture of the painting.Renee (26:03):Yeah. Have you guys talked about, I guess expressions or epigenetics, I guess with resilience with epigenetics, when we do experience hardship, there's a certain way of taking that hardship in and either it alters our expression or our reaction, our behavior and how we carry that through across generations. But I was thinking of that word even with Jenny when you were talking about resilience to you, you remember it maybe probably in your body as resistance because of your great grandparents. My question was, or even just with D Los MTOs, the spirits that help that are kind of like protectors, did you guys sense that as information first or did you feel it first kind like that there's this feeling inside, you can't really quite pinpoint it, but you feel it as a practice and then when you do get that information, you're like, ah, that's what it was. Or is it the other way? I need information first. And then you're like, okay, it confirms this. I dunno. I don't know if that's a clear question, but I was just kind of curious about that. Even with the Rosa Parks, this is how we're going to do it, this is how we remember it, that was successful in its ways. Yeah.Jenny (27:54):I think for me personally, the more stories I learn, the more of me makes sense. And the same great grandparents were farmers and from where they lived to the port sold vegetables along the way to pay for their travels. And then when they got to the port, sold their wagon to pay for their ship tickets and then just arrived in the states with practically nothing. And there's so much of a determined hope in that, that I have felt in myself that is willing to just go, I don't know where this is going to lead to, but I'm going to do it. And then when I hear these stories, I'm like, oh yeah, and it's cool to be with my husband as I'm hearing these family stories, and he'll just look at me like, oh, that sounds familiar.Danielle (29:07):I think there's a lot of humor in our family's resistance that I've discovered. So it's not surprising. I felt giddy watching the videos, not just because I enjoyed seeing them fall, but it did feel like the earth was just catching their foot. When I used to run in basketball in college, sometimes people would say, oh, I tripped on the lines. The lines of the basketball court grabbed them and just fell down. And I think for a moment, I don't know, in my faith, like God or the earth has its own way of saying, I'm not today. I've had enough today and you need to stop. And so that's one way. I don't know. I feel it in my body first. Yeah. What about you? Okay.Renee (30:00):Yeah, humor, definitely A lot of one elder that I knew just with crack jokes all the time, but had the most painful story, I think, of boarding school and stuff. And then we had the younger generation kind of just ask him questions, but one of the questions for him to him was, you joke a lot, how did you become so funny? And then he was just like, well, I got to do this, or else I'll like, I'll cry. So there's just the tragic behind it. But then also, yeah, humor really does carry us. I was thinking about that one guy that was heckling the lady that was saying free Palestine, and then he tripped. He tripped backwards. And you're like, oh.(31:00):So just those, I think those captures of those mini stories that we're watching, you're like, okay, that's pretty funny. But I think for us in not speaking for all indigenous, but even just within my community, there's a lot of humor for just answering to some of the things that are just too, it's out of our realm to even just, it's so unbelievable. We don't even know what to do with this pain, but we can find the humor in it and laugh about the absurdity of what's happening and And I think even just our cultural practices, a lot of times my husband Donnie and I talk about just living. I don't necessarily like to say that I live in two worlds. I am part of both. I am. We are very present in both of just this westernized society perspective, but we do see stark differences when we're within our indigenous perspective, our worldview, all those things that it's just very like, whoa, this is really different.(32:27):There's such a huge contrast. We don't know if it's a tangent line that never crosses, but then there are moments where when communities cross that there is this possibility that there's an understanding amongst each other and stuff. But I think even just with our cultural practice, the timeline of things that are happening in current news, it's so crazy. But then you look to, if you turn your head and you look toward the indigenous communities, they're fully into their cultural practices right now, like harvest dances and ceremonies and all those things. And it's just kind of like, okay, that's got grounding us right now. We're continuing on as it feels like the side is burning. So it's just this huge contrast that we're constantly trying to hold together, living in the modern world and in our cultural traditions, we're constantly looking at both and we're like, okay, how do we live and integrate the two?(33:41):But I think even just those cultural practices, seeing my girls dance, seeing them wear their traditional clothing, seeing them learning their language, that just my heart swells, gives me hope that we're continuing on even when it feels like things are falling and coming apart and all those things. But yeah, real quick story. Last week we had our school feast day. So the kids get to kind of showcase their culture, they wear their traditional clothes, and kids are from all different tribes, so everybody dresses differently. We had a family that was dancing their Aztec dances and Pueblo tribes in their Pueblo regalia, Navajo students wearing their Navajo traditional clothes and all those things. So all these different tribes, everyone's showcasing, not just showcasing, but presenting their cultural things that they've been learning. And at the very end, my daughter, her moccasin fell off and we were like, oh, no, what's happening? But thankfully it was the end of the day. So we were like, okay. So I took apart her leggings and then took off her moccasin and stuff. Then so we started walking back to the car, and then my other daughter, her moccasin leggings were unwrapping.(35:17):We were laughing, just walking all the way because everyone, their leggings were coming apart too as they were walking to their car. And everyone's just laughing all like, okay, it's the end of the day. It's okay. We're falling apart here, but it's all right. But it was just good to kind of have that day to just be reminded of who we are, that we remain, we're still here, we're still thriving, and all those things.Rebecca (35:56):Yeah, I think the epigenetics question is interesting for the story arc that belongs to black American people because of the severing of those bloodlines in the transatlantic slave trade. And you may have gotten on the ship as different tribes and different peoples, and by the time you arrive on US soil, what was many has merged into one in response to the trauma that is the trans glamorous slave trade. So that question always throws me for a loop a little bit, because I never really know where to go with the epigenetics piece. And it also makes me understand how it is that Rosa Parks is not my ancestor, at least not that I know of. And yet she is my ancestor because the way that I've been taught out of my Black American experience to understand ancestry is if you look like me in any way, shape or form, if there's any thread, if there is a drop of African blood in, you count as an ancestor.(37:13):And that means I get permission to borrow from Rosa Parks. She was in my bloodline, and I teach that to my kids. She's an elder that you need to respect that. You need to learn all of those things. And so I don't usually think about it until I'm around another culture that doesn't feel permission to do that. And then I want to go, how do you not catch that? This, in my mind, it all collapses. And so I want to say to you, Renee, okay, every native person, but when I hear you talk, it is very clear that for you ancestry means that tracing through the clans and the lines that you can identify from your mother and your father. So again, not just naming and noticing the distinction and the differences about how we even understand the word ancestor from whatever our story arcs are, to listen to Jenny talk about, okay, great grandfather, and to know that you can only go so far in black life before you hit a white slave owner and you lose any connection to bloodline. In terms of the records, I have a friend who describes it as I look into my lineage, black, black, white, nothing. And the owner and the listing there is under his property, not his bloodline. So just noticing and naming the expansiveness that needs to be there, at least for me to enter my ancestry.Rebecca (38:56):Yeah, that's a good, so the question would be how do generations confront disruption in their lineage? How do you confront disruption? And what do you work with when there is that disruption? And how does, even with Rosa Parks, any drop of African-American blood, that's my auntie, that's my uncle. How do I adopt the knowledge and the practices and traditions that have kept us going? Whereas being here where there's very distinct tribes that are very different from one another, there's a way in which we know how to relate through our lineage. But then also across pan-Indian that there's this very familiar practice of respect of one another's traditions, knowing where those boundaries are, even though I am Zuni and if I do visit another tribe, there's a way that I know how to conduct myself and respect so that I'm honoring them and not trying to center myself because it's not the time. So just the appropriateness of relationships and stuff like that. So yeah, that's pretty cool conversation.Danielle (40:40):It was talking from a fisherman from Puerto Vallarta who'd lived there his whole life, and he was talking, he was like, wink, wink. People are moving here and they're taking all the fish. And we were like, wait, is it Americans? Is it Canadians? He is like, well, and it was people from other states in Mexico that were kind of forced migration within Mexico that had moved to the coast. And he's like, they're forgetting when we go out and fish, we don't take the little fish. We put 'em back and we have to put 'em back because if we don't put 'em back, then we won't have fish next year. And he actually told us that he had had conversations. This is how close the world seems with people up in Washington state about how tribal members in Washington state on the coast had restored coastline and fish populations. And I thought, that is so cool. And so his whole thing was, we got to take care of our environment. I'm not radical. He kept telling us, I'm not radical in Spanish. I want my kid to be able to fish. We have so much demand for tourism that I'm worried we're going to run out, so we have to make this. How do we make it sustainable? I don't know. It just came to mind as how stories intersect and how people see the value of the land and how we are much more connected, like you said, Renee, because of even the times we can connect with people across thousands of miles,(42:25):It was really beautiful to hear him talk about how much he loved these little fish. He's like, they're little and they squirm around and you're not supposed to eat. He is like, they need to go back. They need to have their life, and when it's ready, then we'll eat them. And he said that in Spanish, it sounded different, but sounded way better. Yeah. Yeah. In Spanish, it was like emotional. It was connected. The words were like, there's a word in Spanish in Gancho is like a hook, but it also can mean you're deceived. And he is like, we can't deceive ourselves. He used that word. We can't deceive ourselves that the fish will be here next year. We can't hook. And with the play on words, because you use hook to catch fish, right?That's like a play on words to think about how do we preserve for the next generation? And it felt really hopeful to hear his story because we're living in an environment in our government that's high consumer oriented, no matter who's in charge. And his slowing down and thinking about the baby fish, just like you said, Renee is still dancing. We're still fishing, felt good.Renee (43:59):I remember just even going to Juno, Alaska for celebration when all the Alaskan tribes make that journey by canoe to Juneau. And even that, I was just so amazed that all the elders were on the side on the shore, and the people in the canoe did this whole ceremony of asking for permission to come on the land. And I was like, dang, even within, they're on their own land. They can do what they want, but yet they honor and respect the land and the elders to ask for permission first to get out, to step out. So it's just like, man, there's this really cool practice of reciprocity even that I am learning. I was taught that day. I was like, man, that's pretty cool. Where are those places that will help me be a good human being in practicing reciprocity, in relationship with others and with the land? Where do I do that? And of course, I remember those things like, okay, you don't take more than you need. You always are mindful of others. That's kind of the teachings that come from my tribe, constantly being mindful of others, mindful of what you're saying, mindful of the way you treat others, all those things against. So yeah. So I think even just this conversation crossing stories and everything, it's generative. It reminds us of all these ways that we are practicing resilience.(45:38):I was going to tell you, Danielle, about humor in resilience, maybe a little humble bragging, but Randy Woodley and Edith were here last week, and Donnie and I got to hang out with them. And I was telling them about this Facebook group called, it's like a Pueblo Southwest group. And people started noticing that there were these really intimate questions being asked on the page. And then people started realizing that it's ai, it's like a AI generated questions. So with Facebook, it's kind of maybe automatically implemented into, it was already implemented into these groups. And so this ai, it's called, I forget the name, but it will ask really sensitive questions like cultural questions. And people started, why are you asking this question? They thought it was the administrator, but then people were like, oh, they caught on like, oh, this is ai. And then people who kind of knew four steps ahead, what was happening, they were like, don't answer the questions. Some people started answering earnestly these really culturally sensitive questions, but people were like, no, don't answer the questions. Because they're mining for information. They're mining for knowledge from our ways. Don't give it to them.(47:30):So now every time this AI robot or whatever asks a question that's very sensitive, they just answer the craziest. That's a good one of them was one of 'em was like, what did you learn during a ceremonial dance? And no one would ask that question to each other. You don't ask that question. So people were like, oh, every time I hear any man of mine, a country song, they just throw out the crazies. And I'm sitting there laughing, just reading. I'm like, good. Oh man, this is us. Have you ever had that feeling of like, this is us. Yes, we caught on. We know what you're doing. This is so good. And then just thinking of all these answers that are being generated and what AI will spit out based off of these answers. And so I was telling Randy about this, and he just like, well, this is just what used to happen when settlers used to first come and interact with indigenous people. Or even the ethnographers would come and mind for information, and they gather all this knowledge from indigenous communities. And then these communities started catching on and would just give them these wild answers. And then these ethnographers would gather up this information and then take it to the school, and the teachers would teach this information. So maybe that's why the school system has some crazy out there information about indigenous peoples. But that's probably part of what's happened here. But I just thought that was so funny. I was like, oh, I love us.Rebecca (49:19):Yeah, that's going to show up in some fourth graders history report or social studies report something about, right. And I can't wait to see that. Yeah, that's a good idea. So good. That feels like resistance and resilience, Renee.Renee (49:40):Yeah. Yeah. Humorous resistance. It just, yeah. So one of the questions is, have you ever harvested traditional pueblo crops?(49:52):And then some puts, my plastic plants have lasted generations with traditional care.So unserious just very, yeah, it's just so funny. So anytime I want to laugh, I go to, oh, what did this ai, what's this AI question for today? Yeah. People have the funniest, funniest answers. It givesYeah, yeah. Jenny's comment about it kind of has to go underground. Yeah. What's underneath the surface?Danielle (50:36):I have to pause this, but I'd love to have you back. Rebecca knows I'm invited every week. May invited. I have a client coming. But it is been a joy.  Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

  A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight on APEX Express Host Miko Lee speaks with spouses of detained refugees. We hear about the similarities and challenges of Hmong and Nepali speaking Bhutanese refugees. We also speak with Asian Law Caucus' Aisa Villarosa about the ongoing campaigns for freedom that ALC has been leading along with a host of other community based organizations. Join us: November 3, 4pm Pacific time, 7pm Eastern Time, Join us for “We Belong Here, Bhutanese & Hmong Americans in the Struggle Against Statelessness” a live virtual event featuring my three guests tonight, along with performances and conversations. bit.ly/WBH-2025   TAKE ACTION Rising Voices campaign for Lue Yang Mohan Karki's GoFundMe   And please help support these organizations working to support detained and deported folx: Asian Law Caucus Asian Refugees United Ba Lo Project in Vietnam Collective Freedom in Vietnam & Laos Asian Prisoner Support Committee & New Light Wellness in Cambodia November 1–2, people nationwide are joining the Disappeared In America Weekend of Action to stand up for immigrant families and defend due process. Actions include protests at Home Depots, candlelight Freedom Vigils, and Day of the Dead events honoring lives lost to detention.     We Belong! Transcript Miko Lee: Welcome to Apex Express.This is your host, Miko Lee. Today we're talking about detentions and potential deportations and the atrocities that the Trump administration is creating in our communities.We originally recorded this episode a month ago, and today is October 29th. 2025 and I have with me Aisa Villarosa a lawyer with Asian Law Caucus, giving us an update in the cases that we're talking about. Welcome Aisa Apex Express. Aisa Villarosa: Thanks so much, Miko. Miko Lee: Tonight we're gonna be talking with two spouses of detained folks. One is a Nepali speaking Bhutanese community member, and the other is Hmong community member. In the time since we recorded this, there has been a big update with Lue Young's case, and I wonder if you could provide us with that update. Aisa Villarosa: Miko since we last spoke, due to some really hard fought campaigning, both behind the scenes and drawing upon allies across Michigan and really across the country. Lue Yang, received a successful pardon from Governor Gretchen Whitmer. We actually received word shortly before Lue Yang was set to be placed on a very large deportation flight. Once we got word of the pardon, it was off to the races for the legal team to quickly draft some emergency motions for Lue Yang and to realize the power of the pardon before the deportation. Miko Lee: Can we back up for a moment and give for an audience a sense of what that means? Lue Young was incarcerated at a detention facility, which Trump has called the FedEx of detention facilities in, Louisana, and explain to us what happened to him and the other members that were suddenly pulled together onto an airplane. Aisa Villarosa: When these removal flights happen, there's so much confusion, there's so much fear that families undergo, and often it's due to the perseverance of the families that we honestly even know where folks are. Shortly before what we call final staging happens, someone is moved from, in Lue's case, a facility in Michigan to a facility like Alexandria in Louisiana where the planes do take off  from. Families typically look up their loved one on something called the “ice detainee locator.” What's challenging is when final staging starts. Often that person completely disappears from the detainee locator or information gets a bit scrambled. Because ICE has a bit of a sealed box as far as even telling families where, their loved one is. Families are either left to guess or rely on each other. So for Lue Yang and the pardon what is critical for folks to know is that as powerful, as rare as a pardon is, I can't stress how extraordinary this is in these very difficult times. A pardon does not instantly, allow someone to say, walk out of an ice facility. There's, numerous legal filings that need to happen. That is why , the team was so up against the clock. Miko Lee: So let's break this down a little bit around a pardon. What does a pardon mean in our current system? Because as a lay person, you think, oh, they're pardoned. That means they're free and they can go home and be with their family. Tell us a little bit about what a pardon means in our legal system right now. Aisa Villarosa: A pardon is different from a criminal expungement, which folks might be familiar with. In Lue's case, for example, when Lue was younger, he successfully expunged this record, in criminal court. The challenge is that immigration court, is basically the entity that issues something called a “final order of removal.” This document, is basically what powers deportation for folks. An expungement does not get at the final removal order. However, a pardon has that more direct link. The pardon has the weight of what we call “vacating a conviction.” To explain more legalese and hopefully folks can stay with me. A final order of removal is an immigration court order document where , it gives ice the power to do all these deportations We're seeing for the refugee community that Lue Yang belongs to. Often these are quite old orders, and so sometimes a loved one might be detained and they might not even realize that they have a criminal conviction or a final order of removal. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for breaking that down. So we described how he was pulled off the plane that was going for his deportation. Tell us where Lue is at right now. What is happening with his case? Aisa Villarosa: The call to action very much remains what it has been, which is we're calling to bring Lue home. At the moment, Lue is in a facility in Louisiana. Our hope is that Lue can return to Michigan. There is also a call to release Lue on a supervised release. The other component of the legal journey for Lue is something called a motion to reopen. Basically this is how the full weight of the pardon is realized. The motion to reopen calls on the Board of Immigration Appeals to reopen Lue's case, because years ago he got that final removal order, so when someone gets that order, typically their immigration case is closed. This petition says, Hey, he got a pardon. Please reopen Lue's case because the underlying conviction that led to the final removal order. Has been pardoned, right? We are hoping that this motion to reopen will be heard in front of the Board of Immigration Appeals, that we can get a great result and that as the campaign calls for that, Lue can come home. Miko Lee: I know lawyers like you are doing incredible work around the scenes. You did not sleep for two days, filing paperwork to be able to make sure that Lue was pulled off that plane. But what can regular people, what can our audience do to get involved right now? Aisa Villarosa: There's myriad actions along this really terrible deportation pipeline. We're seeing that folks who might not have, any deep knowledge of the immigration system can still be so impactful. We have partners in LA in the faith community and they've started working with community organizations to do things like accompaniment, which is, joining community members like Lue, who often have these ice check-ins. As folks have seen on the news, these check-ins can be really risky because that is where ice arrests can happen. If someone misses their ice check-in, typically that means that a warrant is issued, that immigration forces can come after you. In these cases, community members, particularly folks who are US citizens, accompaniment can be a great way to dig in to show up for our immigrant and refugee siblings. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for breaking down how folks can get involved. It's so important right now in a time where we feel so utterly helpless to be able to make change. Now we're gonna go back to listen to our interview that is with the two spouses, Tika, Basnet, and Ann Vue, and also our current guest, Aisa Villarosa Tika and Ann they're part of a horrible club, which is both of their spouses are currently in detention from our immigration system. I just wanna start on a real personal note in a way that I often do with my guests. Anne, I just would love to hear from you, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Ann Vue: Thank you again, Miko and Isa, for having me on. We are Hmong. We helped Americans during the Vietnam War. In Laos, a lot of our pilots needed a communication. Because we're indigenous and we are in the mountains they were able to speak with us and use us. Our Hmong, helped a lot of the pilots rescued a lot, like thousands and thousands of Americans, so that they can make it back home. That is our contribution to the American people. When we were brought to America, was to resettle because of humanitarian purpose. Our legacy of helping Americans with the war. that is who we are and what we bring to America. That's who I am. I'm actually the first generation Hmong American. I was born right here in the capital of Lansing, Michigan. Miko Lee: Thanks so much ann. Tika, can you share who are your people and what legacy you carry with you? Tika Basnet: Hi, my name is Tika Basnet. I am Bhutanese Nepali community. My parents and all the Bhutanese, they ran away from Bhutan in 1990 due to the ethnic cleansing. They came to Nepal, seeking for asylum, and that is where we born. I was born in Nepal, in refugee camp. Even though I was born in Nepal, Nepal never gave us identity. They never give us citizenship. We were known as Bhutanese Nepali, but as known as Stateless. My husband also born in Nepal in a refugee camp. Miko Lee: Thank you. Aisa, I'm gonna ask the same question for you Aisa, that works at Asian Law Caucus. Who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Aisa Villarosa: So much love to you, Miko and to you Ann and Tika for being here today. I just am, I'm so honored. My name is Aisa and I carry the love and, Maki Baka spirit of Filipino Americans both in my family across the diaspora. A little bit about the Filipino American story. We came to the United States as part of the colonial machine. The first Filipinos were brought as part of the Spanish Gallian trade. We made California home, parts of Lueisiana home, and it's quite a contrast to a lot of the sort of model minority seduction that many of my people, and myself as a younger person tended to fall into that if we kept our heads down, if we were quiet, we would be left alone. I'm struck because at this moment of just unprecedented government attacks, so many of our communities have this story where someone somewhere said to us, yeah, just keep your head down and it'll be fine. We're seeing the exact opposite, that this is the time to really use our voices, both individually and as one. I'm also an artist and try to infuse that into my work in fighting government systems. Miko Lee: Thank you Aisa. I will say I'm Miko. I am fifth generation Chinese American. I grew up knowing that my family was full of fighters that built the railroads, worked in the gold mines in laundromats and restaurants, and my parents walked with Dr. King and Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta, and I was raised in a family of social justice activists. I feel like our legacy is to continue that work and to fight for the rights of our peoples. I'm so honored to have both of all three of you powerful women join me today. As I was saying in the beginning, Tika and Anne are sadly a part of this club nobody wants to be a part of with the sudden, unexpected, harmful detentions of both of your husbands. I wonder if you can each just share the story about what happened and how you first found out about your husband being detained. Let's start with you Tika. Tika Basnet: My husband got his removal in 2014 when he was just 17 years old, high school student going from school to home. He's a teenager and with his friend, they were playing around and they wanna go home really fast. They just cross from private property. That is where someone saw and call 9 1 1. We came from the culture that we love to go people home , walking around, playing around. My husband came here in 2011. The incident happened on 2013. He just, came here without knowing culture, without knowing languages, So he has no idea. So when somebody called 9 1 1, he could not explain what happened. First of all, English is his second language, he was barely here without knowing rules and regulation, without knowing culture. The police took him to jail, gave a lot of charges. My husband doesn't know what are those charges? At that time, nobody explained, this is the three charges you got, and this could lead to deportation. He feel guilty without knowing those charges. He trusts [00:14:00] Nepali translate guy, and he told my husband, if you don't say I'm guilty, you will end up in prison for 20 to 25 years, but if you say I'm guilty, you'll go home. My husband said, guilty. At that time, neither criminal lawyer told my husband, if you say I'm guilty, you'll end up getting deport. Deport to the country that you are you never born. Deport To the country, you doesn't even speak their language. The lawyer did not explain my husband you will not gonna get your green card. You cannot apply your citizenship in your life. If those things the lawyer told my husband at that time, he will never gonna say, I am guilty to the crime that he did not even commit. When they tried to deport my husband back then, Bhutan say, he's not my citizenship, he's not from my country, We don't know this guy. He's not belongs to here. When US Embassy reach out to, Nepal, do you know this guy? They told, ICE no, we don't know this guy, like he's not belongs here. The ICE officer, told my husband, we can let you go, you need to come here, like order of supervision every three months, every six months, whenever we call you. It been 11 years. My husband is following rules and regulation. He never did any violation after that. He got married, he has a life, he pay taxes. He was taking care of his family and in 11 years he was doing everything. In 2025 for the first time they target Bhutanese Nepali community. I knew that this is the last time I'm gonna see my husband. I broke down. When they detained my husband in April 8, I was eight months pregnant. We dream a lot of things we are gonna take care of our daughter. We are gonna buy home, we are gonna work, we are gonna give her the life that we, I'm sorry. Miko Lee: Totally. Okay. Tika Basnet: I never thought like Bhutanese community can, like deport. Like my parent already go through this trauma, when Bhutan throw them away due to ethnic cleansing and same thing happening to us. It is unbelievable. I cannot believe that, we're going through this again and I don't know when this gonna be stopped. I don't know whether like my husband gonna come home. It is been five month and I really want my husband back. My daughter is, three month old. She need her dad in life 'cause I cannot provide everything by myself. My husband is the main provider for her aging parent. 'cause even now they cannot pay bills. I'm fighting for my husband case and I want my husband back. He deserve second chance because if you see his record is clean, like for one incident that happened like 12 years ago, that cannot define my husband. I cannot believe that my husband is able to get deport to the country that doesn't even accept. I don't know whether he gonna get killed. Whether he gonna disappear, I don't know what will happen to him. I don't know if it is last time I'm gonna see him. Miko Lee: Tika, thank you so much for sharing your story. Just to recap really briefly, your husband, Mohan Karki when he was a teenager, newly arrived in the country, was leaving high school, walked with his friends through a backyard and was racially profiled. The neighbor called police because he was trespassing on property. He was born at a refugee camp. Is that right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Miko Lee: There was not property that was like person's property on that refugee camp. So that whole concept of walking across somebody's land was something he was not aware of. He had an interpreter that did not give correct information. And so he signed something, including a deportation order, that he wasn't even aware of until recently when he was put into detention. Is that right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Yes. Miko Lee: Right now he's in detention. You live in Ohio, but he's in detention in Michigan, right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Miko Lee: Okay, Tika, let's talk about Mohans case and what's happening. He's held in detention right now in a detention facility in Michigan. What is going on with his case? Tika Basnet: His criminal attorney file, a Motion to Redeem asking BIA to send that, case back to Georgia. His case, that happened in 2013. Our attorney just submit documentation where he's asking to release my husband because it'd been five month. He's not risk to the community. He's not risk to the flight 'cause he doesn't have no one in Bhutan. He doesn't have no one in Nepal. All family is in here. His community love him ,he has family that loves him. We also get lot of documentations as a proof telling ICE that my husband is not risk to the community or to the flight. Miko Lee: Thank you. He has a a four month old baby that he has yet to meet. So that is a powerful reason to stay. As Tikas pointing out, the lawyer just submitted documentation along with 50 letters of support from the community from employers, from family members, all saying why he should stay in this country. Thank you so much for sharing. Anne, i'm wondering if you could share about what happened to your husband. He was also born in a refugee camp, right? Ann Vue: Lue was born in Nangkai, Thailand refugee camp in 1978. In1979 his parents and him and his older brother Granted urgent humanitarian reasons for or for public benefit. They made it to America right before Halloween. The early nineties, me even being the first generation American here, racism played a lot. We all went through that piece and our parents not speaking English at the same time, they were going to school themselves so that they can learn our English language, . They weren't able to teach us growing up. We had to fend for ourselves. I would say my husband he went out with some friends. He did not commit the crime. But of course now that is brought back to him, he understood about his particular case is second attempt, home invasion. Nobody was harmed. He was in the vehicle, in the backseat when he was caught. He didn't wanna partake, but he didn't wanna stop them either 'cause to him it was like, if I don't partake, then I have nothing to do with it. . Because if I do, then they might not be my friends anymore. It's just a part of growing up as a youth. Because he was there, and then would receive a court appointed attorney, and then provide it very similar to Tika's too. Had an interpreter, that was explaining to them, was provided bad legal advice. He had no knowledge about how this would impact his immigration status. It was advised by their attorney, take the plea it's easier, and you probably serve less than a year. You'll be out, you'll only be in the county jail anyways 'cause you didn't really commit the crime and technically it should have been a misdemeanor. But because you're an accomplice, that kind of falls under this category. So he took the plea, he served 10 months in a county jail. He actually was released for good behavior. He even finished his probation soon because he paid all of his stuff off. He even finished a youth advocate program for anybody that committed crimes between the age of 18 to 21. I just saw this form the other day and I was reading it and it talks about, the one thing about our parents, experiencing the war and coming to America, they don't talk about it. A lot of us are from communist countries. We are very afraid to voice our voices, because someone can take action. Our parents never talked about it. I read what he wrote to his, youth coordinator, he felt so bad about what he did. He created disappointment for his parents and he understands, there are sacrifices that got us here to America. He literally wrote all of this down, i'm going to be a better person. I'm going to make my parents proud now that I understand their sacrifices. They asked him, ” what was your upbringing like?” He wrote, “poor” and the coordinator wrote on the bottom of his comments said, “Lue is remorseful for what has happened and he wants to be a better person. I have no other questions. The training is complete.” He doesn't need any further, support and believes that he will move forward to be a better person. That's literally what they wrote on the document. Then fast forwarding to 1999 that's when, immigration showed up at his house. Him and I would meet in 2000, and then we'd be married in 2001. We'd celebrate. Almost 24 and a half years of marriage. We did appeal his case in the humanitarian piece of what this meant for Lue during the time where we all fled the country. Once the monks were declared enemy of the state by the LDR in Laos, we fled. It's well documented that there was a little bit over 400,000 of us there right after the genocide and the killings of the Hmong there was probably less than 45,000 of us left. Once we understood a lot of that, we wanted to do better. We wanted to really service our community. We appealed the case. The case was then denied in his appeal letters, general Vink Powell, which led the Hmongs during the war, even had a letter where he, also pled why Hmongs need to stay here in America. And why we need to bring the rest of our people to this country. The reality is our whole family, Lue's whole family was wiped out. We don't have anybody, Lue doesn't have anyone. That goes to Tika's thing too. There's nobody there. Going back to the case once it was denied in 2002. He then was forced to reach out to the embassy and was denied, entry into Thailand 'cause that's where he was born. We're stateless too, just like Tikas husband. We were denied by Thailand. We were denied by Laos stating that we are not a citizen of theirs. They do not allow or welcome any sort of entry. In 2006, they actually took his green card and then we again were denied. In 2008 we were denied a third time and that's when his immigration officer was like, just move on and start your life. Laos and Thailand, will never sign a repatriation act with America because of you guys, because of the Hmong people, what you guys have done to their country, making it the most bombed country during the war without even being a part of the war. They will never allow you guys back. So we were like, okay. So we moved forward. Then in 2014, this immigration officer, which we was doing yearly checkups at this time, was like, Hey go get your citizenship, get your green card. They're like you're doing so good. You probably could have a chance to get it. We moved forward to apply for citizenship and for the green card. We were denied in 2015 and we know how expensive this is. You pay $10,000 outright, you don't get that money back. You just have to go at it again. We decided that, we're gonna get his case expunged, and we got his case expunged in 2018. No questions asked. It was very straightforward. Once it was expunged, we continued with our [00:26:00] lives. Very involved in the community. We had six kids . This year we even called his immigration officer and he was like, “Hey, don't worry about it, Lue, we're moving you over to Grand Rapids and you should be fine. Just make sure that you stay outta trouble, continue to follow your stock.” I think what triggered it was when we applied for his work permit in April. He always meets his immigration officer at the end of the year, and we renewed his work permit is what triggered it. The money was cashed out, everything the checks went through while we were receiving that, he was gonna be here, everything was gonna be fine. Then July 15th he was detained at work, six 30 in the morning, the detained officer they told him they know who he is to the community, so they have to do it this way because they don't want any problems. They don't want media, they don't want reporters. He did ask them because he rode his motorcycle for some weird reason. He has not taken his bike out, his motorcycle out in the last three years. But for some reason that night he was like, I just wanna take my bike. So he took his bike that night and when ICE told him, do you have somebody come get your bike? You need to call somebody to come get your bike. He was like, nobody in my family rides motorcycles. I don't have anyone to come get my bike. I think there was some empathy and compassion for him. My husband was like, can I just take my bike back? I've got six kids. I've got my grandma at home and my parents are also at my house right now. I just wanna see them and wanna take my bike back. They asked him, “if we let you go, please don't run.” They followed my husband home and my husband literally called me at 6 37 in the morning and he was like, Hey, ICE is, here they got me. I'm like, “what? What's going on?” It was just so surreal. I was so shocked. It's a 30 minute drive. When he got there, they were already officers, packed tight in our driveway. We live in the country. There were like five or six cop cars there too. We had to walk about half a mile down to go see him. They wouldn't allow him to enter where our home was. The officer told, my husband, told him that they're so sorry. They have to do it this way. They know who he is. They don't want any problems, they don't want any reports in media out here. I will say my experience was a little bit different from others. They did take their mask off when they took him in, they were respectful. They even, talk to my two older boys like, Hey, you guys have money. I could put the money in your dad's account. We're, take him into Grand Rapids, we're gonna process him, and then we're gonna take him to the detention center, which is gonna be in Michigan. They were very open about these steps . My grandma has chronic pulmonary disease stage four. We couldn't haul her fast enough because we only saw him for like maybe a quick minute, and that was it. They did ask us to turn around because they had to take him back and they didn't want our little ones to see them cuffing him. Miko Lee: They actually said, Anne, we don't want any media to be watching this? Ann Vue: I don't want any problems. Miko Lee: Your husband is also quite well known in the Hmong community, right? So probably, they were worried about folks coming out and protesting. Is that, do you think that was the case? Ann Vue: That's what I'm assuming. I don't remember their exact words saying media, but do remember that they didn't want people around, they didn't want to create issues for the community. Because if he would've gotten the letter just like everybody did, which everybody then would receive the letter on Friday, and because my husband is a community leader, he is the Hmong Family Association's president, we restart receiving many, many calls where everybody just wanted to talk to Lue 'cause they needed to know what's going on, how to handle, what to do. At that moment I realized, oh my gosh, they detained my husband first. Then everybody else got a letter. Miko Lee: And the ICE officer that he had been checking in with routinely has he been in touch with him since he was detained? Ann Vue: He hasn't. Miko Lee: So they had different people come in even, 'cause he was the person that said everything's okay, keep going with your life. Ann Vue: Oh yeah. Miko Lee: And so no contact with him whatsoever since the detention? Ann Vue: No. Miko Lee: Okay. Thank you so much. I just wanna point out, for all of our listeners, how many similarities there are in these two cases. In both of these amazing women are here supporting their spouses. Both spouses born in refugee camps. Dealing with intergenerational trauma from families that had to escape ethnic cleansing or involved in a war, came into the United States under, legal properties through refugee resettlement acts, made mistakes as young people, partially due to culture and wanting to fit in. They served their time, they paid their dues. They were racially profiled. They suffered from incredible immigration policy failure with bad advice, with a system that's broken. Now both of them are detained. Not yet deported, but detained. Many of the community members have already been deported and they're facing statelessness. We're seeing this not just with Bhutanese and Hmong folks, but with Mien and Lao and Haitian and El Salvadorian. We could fill in the blank of how many other peoples in other communities are facing this. We also know that these private detention centers where people are being held, are making millions and millions of dollars, and it's connected into our corrupt political system that's in place right now. Aisa, I'm wondering if you could, talk about the case, but also about some of the deals that we think have had to be made with Laos and Bhutan in order for these deportations to even take place. So Aisa from Asian Law Caucus, I'm gonna pass it to you to go over some of the legal ramifications. Aisa Villarosa: Of course, Miko, and thank you for it for the context. There are so many parallels that we as advocates must uplift because this is not the time to be divided. This is the time to build solidarity that we've long known needs to happen. What Miko is referring to is largely something that we've observed around the travel  bans. Earlier this year, right around the time that the Trump administration took hold, there was a draft travel ban list that leaked across a number of media outlets, the Times, et cetera, and the same countries we're talking about today, Bhutan, Laos. These were historically not countries that were subject to sanctions, like the travel ban, and yet here they were. A lot of us were scratching our heads and asking, why is this happening? Our theory, and this is a theory that is now also manifesting in a number of FOIA requests or Freedom of Information Act requests that are submitted from Asian Law Caucus to departments like the State Department ice, the Department of Homeland Security. Asking the same question that Tika and Anne are asking, which is, how are these deportations even happening? They were not happening until this year. What very likely happened was a bit of a quid pro quo. So in removing Bhutan, removing Laos from this list where they could be sanctioned as a country, there was likely some backdoor deal that took place between the US State Department and Bhutanese officials and the US officials, where essentially there was some form of an agreement that there would be an acceptance or a supposed acceptance of a certain number of folks from these communities. That is why around March, for the Bhutanese refugee community, for example, we started seeing pickups very similar to Mohan's case, where, many people who had perhaps made some mistakes in their youth or had really old criminal convictions were swept off the streets and thrust into these really rapid deportation proceedings. I don't even know if proceedings is the right word, because there essentially was no proceeding. The Immigration Court is very much a cloaked process. The immigration judge is kind of judge and jury wrapped up together, which is very different than many of us might turn on the TV and see something like Law and order. An immigration court works a very different way where this piece of paper, this final removal order, basically gives ICE a lot of bandwidth to make these deportations happen. However, that doesn't mean we should just accept that this is happening. We know that just basic procedures of fairness are not being met. We know, too that in the case of, for example, the Bhutanese community ICE officers have come to the wrong house. And put a lot of people in fear. So racial profiling was happening even before this recent Supreme Court decision, which essentially now condones racial profiling, as criteria that the ICE can use. I also just wanted to talk about this trend too, we're seeing with so many cases. It happened to Lue, it happened to Mohan, where in someone's underlying criminal court case, maybe they were given a court appointed attorney. In many cases, they were not told of the immigration impacts of, say, taking a plea. There is a Supreme Court case called Padilla versus Kentucky and basically the law shifted such that in many cases there now is a duty for a court appointed public defender to actually talk to folks like Mohan and Lue about the immigration consequences of their plea. So when Tika mentioned that there's something called a post-conviction relief effort for Mohan. That's happening in Georgia. This is very much what that legal defense looks like, where, an expert attorney will look at that very old court record, see if those rights were violated, and also talk to Mohan and make sure did that violation happen and is that grounds for reopening an immigration case. For Lue, there is a really mighty pardoning campaign that's brewing in the state of Michigan. So in Michigan, governor Gretchen Whitmer does have the authority to in some cases expedite a pardon in process. Unfortunately in the immigration arena the expungement does not have that same weight as say a vacating, or a motion to vacate that criminal record. So it's super frustrating because, so much of this turns ethically, morally on- do we, as people believe in second chances, and I know most people do, and yet here we are really. Based on a technicality. I also just want to name too that Lue as a person is both a natural organizer and he is a spiritual guide of his community. So something that many folks don't know is because of so much of the trauma that Anne talked about, both from, supporting the Americans during the Secret War, many Hmong folks who came to the States, they actually in some cases died in their sleep because of this, almost unexplained weight of the trauma. It almost underscores the importance of Lue, not just to his family, but this family is a collective family. He's both a mentor for so many, he's a spiritual guide for so many. Him being away from his family, away from community, it's like a double, triple wound. for Mohan, I'd love to uplift this memory I have of a moment in June when Tika gave us a call, and at that point, Mohan had called Tika and said, they're taking me, I'm being deported. At that point, they were removing Mohan from the ICE facility in Butler, Ohio and transporting him to the Detroit airport or that deportation to Bhutan. Tika was forced to essentially delay her childbirth. It was very much in the range of when she was due to give birth to their daughter. But because the clock was ticking, Tika drove to Butler, literally begged for Mohans life as our organizing and advocacy and legal team was trying to get together this emergency stay of deportation. That fortunately came through at the 11th hour. But the fact that Mohan remains in this facility in St. Clair, Michigan, that he's never held his daughter is unacceptable, is ridicuLues. I think so much of these two cases almost, this invisible brotherhood of pain that I know Ann has talked to me about that. Because Lue right now has been in a couple facilities. He is organizing, he's doing his thing and actually supporting folks while also just trying to keep himself well, which is no easy feat to do in so many of these facilities. Especially because, in Alexandria, for example, which is a facility in Louisiana. We know that folks are sleeping on cement floors. We know that folks are not being fed, that there's a lot of human rights violations going on. Here is Lue still continuing to use his voice and try to advocate for the folks around him. Miko Lee: Aisa thank you so much for putting that into context, and we'll put links in the show notes for how folks can get involved in both of these cases. One is, Rising Voices call to action for Lue. We encourage folks to do that. In terms of Mohan, there's a GoFundMe to help support Tika and the immense lawyer fees, and also a letter writing campaign to the ICE director Kevin Roff, to try and release Mohan and Lue. These are really important things that are happening in our community, and thank you for being out there. Thank you for talking and sharing your stories. We really appreciate you. And also, just briefly, I'd love us for us to talk for a minute about how many folks in our Asian American communities, we don't wanna talk about mistakes that we have made in the past because we might consider that shameful. And therefore, in both of these communities, when we started organizing, it was really hard at first to find people to come forth and share their stories. So I wonder if both of you can give voice to a little about that, the power you found in yourself to be able to come forward and speak about this, even though some other folks in the community might not feel comfortable or strong enough to be able to talk. Tika, can you speak to that? Tika Basnet: What makes me really strong, and I wanna see that my husband case is because he was 17, people can make mistake and from those mistake, if people are learning. Americans should consider, 'cause my husband did make mistake and I wish that time he knew the rules and regulation. I wish somebody taught him that he's not supposed to go somebody else property, around in backyard. I wish he was been in the United States like more than , one and a half year. I wish, if he was like more than two years, three years. I think that time he, from high school, he could learn. He's not supposed to go there. He was just been in the United States like one and a half year just going to high school. Nobody taught him. His parent doesn't even speak English. Until now, they doesn't even speak, like nobody in our community knew rules and regulation. He doesn't have guide, mentor to taught him like, and even though he did make mistake and he's really sorry, and from those mistake learning a lot, and he never get into trouble, after 11 years, he was clean, he work, he pay taxes. That is the reason that I really wanna come forward. People can make mistake, but learning from those mistake that changed people life. The reason that I'm coming forward is because organization like Asian Law Caucus, ARU, and, Miko, a lot of people helped me. They taught me like people can make mistake and, we shouldn't be same. I really wanna give example to my daughter, that, you are fighting for justice and you shouldn't fear. What is right is right. What is wrong is wrong. But if somebody's make mistake and they are not, doing that mistake again, I think the people can get a second chance. My husband deserves second chance. He's 30 years old. He has a family, he has a wife, children and he deserved to be here. We came here legally, my husband came here. Legally, we, promise that we'll get home and this is our home. We wanna stay here and I really want my husband be home soon so he can play with her daughter to play with his daughter. Miko Lee: Thank you so much, Tika. Ann I wonder if you could talk to the strength that it takes for you to come forward and speak about your husband and your family. Ann Vue: I'm a community leader with my husband. There was a moment when he was first detained where I was in complete silence. I was so shocked. It took my attorney, Nancy, just talking to me about it. Of course, back to what Aisa said earlier in our communities, we're afraid. I was so scared. I didn't know what to do. It took me visiting my husband in Baldwin and letting him know that, hey, a bunch of community members are now reaching out. And that's that. At that moment, he was like, you have to say something. You have to say something you have to make noise because you have a, 50% chance, right? We have a 50 50 chance. 50%. They're gonna send me 50%. You're gonna feel bad if you don't say anything, right? 50 here, 50 there. It doesn't matter. But a hundred percent regret if you don't say something. I thought about it and he was like, well, go out there, be my voice. He's like, you've always been my voice. You got this right. I didn't say no to Nancy. 'cause she really wanted to talk to our rep Mai you know about this. Mai and I are pretty close too. , I just knew if I said anything, Mai's gonna be like mm-hmm. All the way. I just let Nancy help me, and my most vulnerable time. I'm glad that she did. I'm glad that we did get this out. It is the most important thing for us. what keeps me going is all of those that have been impacted by this, from people like Tika. I have many, I call 'em sisters. We're all in a lot of these group chats together. They've been also keeping me going. Our amazing team of attorneys and everybody just strategizing through this unprecedented time. It's really everyone's voices. I get to talk to Lue daily. It's definitely not cheap, but he gets to share each story of each person. I believe that everybody has a story and they might not be as lucky as maybe Tika or my husband, but at least now I have their story. I will be their voice. I will tell each person's story, each name, each alien number that I track down, my husband's even literally learned how to count in Spanish, just so he can give them like my phone number in Spanish in case they need to call an emergency. Oh, I'm be getting a lot of calls. that is what keeps me going because I think that Tika and I and many others are, hoping that there is going to be a better day, a brighter day. I hope that everyone can see that, our children are American, right? Our children, they deserve to have their fathers and their mothers. They deserve to grow with these parents. And with that being said, the most important thing to me is they're not just bystanders. They're literally the future of America. I don't want them growing up with trauma, with trying to ask me questions “well mom, if we're refugees and we helped, Americans as allies, and we come to this country, why is this payback like this?” There's a moral obligation that has to be there and they're gonna grow up and they're gonna be trauma by this. I've got children right now that's been talking about joining the National Guard. It speaks volume about what happens to my husband. He's championed the Hmong, Michigan Special Gorilla unit, the Hmong veterans here in the last two years, really  with helping them through resolutions, tributes, making sure that they have things, that they are out there, that people now know them, they are finally recognized. This puts my husband at great danger by sending him back, because now he's championed the veterans here. He celebrates our veterans here. So it's a moral obligation. I hope that, and this is to every child, I hope that every child, they deserve their father's presence. There are many people who don't even have their father's presence and they wish their fathers were around. Our fathers wanna be around. I hope that our daughter, I only have one daughter too, that someday they can, their fathers can be a part of their, the American culture. I hope that we get that opportunity and I hope that somebody stop being scared, but turn around and help us. Help us. We came here legally, minor stuff, long decade old. This detainment has been worse than when he did time back in 1997. I just hope that somebody hears our podcast, Miko. Thank you. Aisa and Tika. And they turn and they have some compassion and help us because this is the tone that we're setting for the future of our American children. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for sharing. Tika, you wanna add? Tika Basnet: Yes, I really wanna talk about what kind of husband Mohan is. Even though like he detained for five month I put lot of money in his account and there was one guy, his family cannot support him. For me, it is really hard. I'm not working. But even my husband called me you don't need to put like money in my account, but can you please can you please put money in his account? He did not eat food. His family did not have money. I can survive without eating food. I think his story is really touching me. My husband was crying listening to that guy story in detention center and then I did put like $50 in his account. My husband is giving person. He love to give even though, he struggle a lot, even though, he doesn't know what will happen when he get deport. But, him saying other guy story. Does make him cry. I think this is the reason that I really wanna come forward. My husband is giving person, he's lovely person, he's caring person. That is the reason I wanna come forward. I want people to hear our voice, rather than silent. Right now people know our story. But if I was silent then I don't know whether my husband was already disappear. I don't know whether he gonna die torture or maybe he will expel within 24 hours. I have no idea. My husband is number one support system for me, because of him I'm here sharing his story. For years I had wonderful time with him. We build our dream and until 2025, our dream is destroy. I'm trying to build again. I'm hoping, my husband is coming home soon and I'm hoping that this will be the last time that he will get detained. I hope that this will be the end. I don't want him to get detained or deported again. I'm really tired. I don't know what to do. I'm hopeless. I hope listening to my story and Ann's story that separating family is not good. It is affecting not only one person but his whole community, whole family. We deserve to get our husband back. It is not only about the wife that is fighting for husband, it is the children. They're so small, they born here and we cannot raise alone, we cannot work. We have things to pay. Paying bills and taking care of child alone is really difficult. It's been five month. I went through postpartum depression, I went through trauma and I don't wanna deal anymore. Like I don't have courage to do this anymore. We need our husband back. Miko Lee: Thank you. I think both of your husbands are also main caregivers for parents that are ailing in both cases. It's a really important that we are intergenerational communities and as you both said, it's not just about the children, but it's also about parents and brothers and sisters and community members as well. Thank you so much for lifting up your stories. I just wanna go back for one more thing. We talked briefly about the crazy expensive lawyer fees that have come up for families that they've been dealing with this, and then also Tika was just bringing up about detention and commissary fees. Can you talk a little bit about the prison industrial complex and the fees that are associated? As Anne was saying, just calling Lue every day the costs that are associated with those things. Many people that don't have a family member that's incarcerated don't know about that. Can you share a little bit about what that system is? Aisa Villarosa: Yeah, absolutely Miko. Just to underscore, a big theme from this conversation, is that the US made commitments and they have broken them, both with, as Anne talked about, the refugee experience is one that is made possible through US commitment of acknowledging what, people have survived, what they have given to the country. Folks are being removed to countries where not only do they have zero ties to, don't speak the language, but, especially in the case of the Bhutanese refugee community, as Tika mentioned, it is truly a double expulsion. So the fact that we have well-documented testimonials of folks deported from Bhutan after they're removed there into these life-threatening conditions . A community member passed away in large part because of the failure of the US to both care for them while in detention. So going back to that prison complex, but also just putting them in such a harrowing situation. In another instance, a community member was found after wandering for over a hundred miles on foot. So this is not, deportation and the story ends. This is deportation and, there is a family that is grieving and thinking through next steps, there is, this call to not have borders, break us the way that this country is trying to do. And to say a little bit about the fees, USCIS, there, there has not been a point yet in history where so many changes and charges hurting families have been ushered in, But for this year. To give a couple examples of that – asylum cases for one, these often take many years through this administration. Now, families have to pay a cost yearly for each year that your asylum application, languishes because we're also seeing that those same folks who are supposed to process these applications are either being laid off or they're being militarized. So something like USCIS where this was where one would go to apply for a passport. Now the same department is literally being handed guns and they're now taking folks during naturalization interviews. Other avenues to challenge your removal. Like I mentioned a motion to reopen. All these things used to be fairly affordable. Now they can cost many thousands of dollars on top of the attorney fees. So something that's been quite challenging for groups like Asian Law Caucus where we do have attorneys representing folks in removal proceedings, there's often this misperception that oh it's costing so much money. Attorneys are pocketing cash. Unfortunately there are some situations where attorneys have been known to take advantage of families in this desperate moment. But for many, many attorneys who are in this mix, they're experts at this work. They're trying to do the right thing. They're both overwhelmed and they're seeing these new charges, which make the battle really even more difficult. So to turn it back to the listeners, I would say that as powerless as this moment can make us feel everyone is bearing witness. Hopefully the listeners today can take in Anne's story, can take in Tika's story and whatever power one has in their corner of the world, this is the moment to use that. Whether it's your voice, whether it's learning more about a community, maybe you're learning about for the first time. This is really the moment to take action. Miko Lee: Thank you Aisa. I wanna thank you all for being here with me today, for sharing your personal stories, your personal pain, and for recognizing that this is happening. We deeply believe that we need to keep our families together. That is really important. It is written into the very basis of this American country about redemption and forgiveness. And this is what we're talking about for misunderstandings that happened when these folks were young men, that they have paid for their time, and yet they're being punished again, these promises that were broken by this American government, and we need to find ways to address that. I really wanna deeply thank each of you for continuing to be there for sharing your voice, for protecting one another, for being there and standing up for your family and for our community. Thank you for joining me today. Check out our Apex Express Show notes to find out about how you can get involved. Learn about the Rising Voices campaign for Lue Yang and Mohan Khaki's GoFundMe. On November 3rd, 4:00 PM Pacific Time, 7:00 PM Eastern Time. Join us for We Belong here, Bhutanese and Hmong Americans in the Struggle Against Statelessness, a live virtual event featuring my three guests tonight, along with performances and conversations. Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program, apex Express to find out more about our show. APEX Express is a collective of activists that includes Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Have a great night.     The post APEX Express – 10.30.25-We Belong! appeared first on KPFA.

Vanessa Ogaldez, LAMFTSPECIALTIES:TraumaCouples CommunicationIdentity/Self Acceptancehttps://www.dcctherapy.com/vanessa-ogaldez-lamftFrom Her website: Maybe you have said something like, “What else can I do?” and it is possible you feel stuck or heartbroken because you can't seem to connect with your partner as you want or used to. Whether or not you're in a relationship and you have experienced trauma, hurtful arguments, or life changes that have brought on disconnection in your relationships, there is a sense of loss and heartache. You may find yourself in “robot mode” just going through your daily tasks, causing you to eventually disconnect from others, only to continue the cycle of miscommunication and loneliness. Perhaps you feel misunderstood, and you compensate by being helpful to everyone else while you yearn for true intimacy and friendships. Sometimes you feel there are so many experiences that have contributed to your pain and suffering that you don't know where to start. There are Cultural norms you may feel that not everyone can understand and therapy is not one of those Cultural norms. I believe therapy can be a place of safety, healing, and self-discovery. As a therapist, my focus is to support you and your goals in life and relationships. I am committed to you building deep communications, connections and feeling secure in the ability to share your emotions.Danielle (00:06):Good morning. I just had the privilege and honor of interviewing my colleague, another therapist and mental health counselor in Chicago, Vanessa Les, and she is located right in the midst of Chicago with an eye and a view out of her office towards what's happening with ICE and immigration raids. I want to encourage you to listen into this episode of the Arise Podcast, firsthand witness accounts and what is it actually like to try to engage in a healing process when the trauma may be committed right before someone comes in the office. We know that's a possibility and right after they leave the office, not suggesting that it's right outside the door, but essentially that the world in which we are living is not as hopeful and as Mary as we would like to think, I am sad and deeply disturbed and also very hopeful that we share this power inside of ourselves.(01:10):It's based on nonviolence and care and love for neighbor, and that is why Vanessa and I connected. It's not because we're neighbors in the sense of I live next door to her in Chicago and she lives next door to me in Washington. We're neighbors because as Latinas in this world, we have a sense of great solidarity in this fight for ourselves, for our families, for our clients, to live in a world where there's freedom, expression, liberation, and a movement towards justice and away from systems and oppression that want to literally drag us into the pit of hell. We're here to say no. We're here to stand beside one another in solidarity and do that together. I hope you join us in this conversation and I hope you find your way to jump in and offer your actual physical resources, whether it's money, whether it's walking, whether it's calling a friend, whether it's paying for someone's mental health therapy, whether it's sharing a meal with someone, sharing a coffee with someone. All these things, they're just different kinds of things that we can do, and that's not an exhaustive list.(02:28):I love my neighbor. I even want to talk to the people that don't agree with me, and I believe Vanessa feels the same way. And so this episode means a lot to me. It's very important that we pay attention to what's happening and we ground ourselves in the reality and the experiences of black and brown bodies, and we don't attempt to make them prove over and over and over what we can actually see and investigate with our own eyes. Join in. Hey, welcome Vanessa. I've only met you once in person and we follow each other online, but part of the instigation for the conversation is a conversation about what is reality. So there's so many messages being thrown at us, so many things happening in the world regarding immigration, law enforcement, even mental health fields, and I've just been having conversations with different community members and activists and finding out how do you find yourself in reality what's happening. I just first would love to hear who you are, where you're at, where you're coming from, and then we can go from there.Vanessa (03:41):Okay. Well, my name is Vanessa Valez. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. Before becoming a therapist five years ago through my license, I worked in nonprofit for over 20 years, working with families and community and addressing what is the need and what is the problem and how can we all get together. Been involved with different movements and nonprofit organizations focusing on the community in Humbolt Park and Logan Square in the inner city of Chicago. My parents are longtime activists and they've been instrumental in teaching me how to work in community and be part of community and to be empathetic and thoughtful and caring and feeling like what happens to me happens to us and what happens to us happens to me. So that's kind of the values that I come from and have always felt that were true. I'm a mom of three and my husband and I have been together for 29 years, so since we were teenagers.Thank you. But yeah, so that's a lot of just in general who I am and culturally, I come from an Afro Latina culture. I am a Puerto Rican born here, well born in New York where my family was from and they migrated from Puerto Rico, my grandparents did. And in our culture, we are African, we are indigenous, and my dad is Puerto Rican and Native American. So there's a lot in here that I am a hundred percent all of it. So I think that's the view and experience that I come from is knowing who I am and my ancestors who are very important to me.Danielle (06:04):I mean, that encompasses so much of what I think the battle is over who gets to be American and who doesn't. Right? Yeah, definitely. From your position in your job and you're in Chicago right on the ground, I think a lot of people are wondering what's really happening? What are you seeing? What's true? Can you speak to that a little bit?Vanessa (06:32):Yeah. What's really happening here is, I don't know, it's like what's really happening here? People are really scared. People are really scared. Families that are black and brown, families that are in low income situations, families that have visas, families that have green cards, families that are undocumented, all of us are really scared and concerned, and the reason is because we feel that there is power being taken from us without any kind of accountability. So I see my friends and family saying ICE is in our neighborhood, and I mean a block away from where I live, ICE is in our neighborhood, in our schools. We have to watch out. ICE is in front of our church or ICE is patrolling our neighborhood, and we have to all come together and start throwing whistles and we have to know what it is that we're supposed to do if we get interact, if we interact with ice or any kind of federal agent, which is just in itself disturbing, and we're supposed to just get up in our day and send our kids to school, and we're supposed to go to work and do the things that we're supposed to do.(08:07):So it's traumatic. This is a trauma that we are going through, and I think that it only triggers the traumas that a lot of us, black and brown people and community have been trying to get the world to listen and recognize this isn't new for us. It's just now very aggressive and very violent and going backwards instead of forward.(08:39):I think that's how I would describe what is really happening in Chicago. On the other side, I think there's this other place of, I'm kind of really proud of a lot of our people where I think it is understandable to say, you know what? It's not me or mine, or I got my papers all together, so that's really unfortunate, but it's not something that's happening in front of me. I could understand that there are some of some people who feel that way because it does feel like a survival situation. I think though there are others who are saying, no, what happens to you is happening to me too, I'm going to keep accountable to my power. And there's a lot of allies out there. There are a lot of people who are moving and saying, I'm afraid, but I'm still going to act in my fear.(09:37):And I think that's really brave. So in that way, I feel like there's this movement of bravery and a movement of we've had enough and we're going to reinvent what it is that is our response. It's not this or that. It's not extreme to extreme, but I'm going to do it in the way that I feel is right and that I feel that it's good for me to do and I can be truthful in that. And so today I'm really proud because my kids are going to be protesting and walking out of their school and I'm super, super proud and I was like, send pictures because I'm so proud of them. And so someone could say, is that doing anything? I'm like, hell yeah, doing something. It's doing something. The kids are saying, what power do we have? Not much, but whatever I have, I'm going to put that out there and I'm going to be brave and do it.(10:34):And it's important for us to support them. I feel their school does a really good job of supporting them and guiding them through this and letting us parents know, Hey, talk to your kids about this shadow to Belmont Intrinsic Charter School. But they really are doing something. And I find that in a lot of the schools around Chicago, around the Hermosa, Logan Square, Humbold Park area where I live in Humboldt Park, I find that a lot of the schools are stepping up and saying, we are on the community side of taking care of our kids and what's best for our families. So there's that happening and I want to make sure to give that. We have to see that too.Danielle (11:15):One thing you really said at the beginning really struck me. You said power without accountability. And two things I think of you see a truck, you see a law enforcement person acting without accountability. Not only does that affect you in the moment and that trauma particularly maybe even chase you, but I think it activates all the other sense and remembrances of when you didn't have power and there was no accountability. So I thought of that, but I also thought of the people perpetrating these crimes and the way it's reinforcing for inside their own body that they can do whatever they want and not have to pay attention to their own soul, not have to pay attention to their own humanity. And there's something extremely dehumanizing about repeating and repeating and normalizing that for them too. So I was, those are the two things that kind of struck me at the beginning of what you said.Vanessa (12:14):Yeah, I think what you're saying right now is I think the shock factor of it all of how could you do this and do these things and say these things and not only feel that there won't be any accountability, and I think all of us are kind of going like, who's going to keep this accountable? But I think also, how can you do that and feel okay about it? And so I think about the president that just is, I think a person who I will always shock me all the things that he's doing and saying, it shocks me and I'm glad it shocks me. It should never be normal, and I think that's important. I think sometimes with a lot of supporters of his, there's this normalcy of that's just him. He's just really meaning what he's saying or he's just kind of blunt and I like that about him. That should never be normalized. So that's shocking that you can do that. He can do that and it not be held accountable to the extent that it should be. And then for there to be this huge impact on the rest of us that he's supposed to be supporting, he's supposed to be protecting and looking out for, and then it's permissible, then it's almost supported. It's okay. This is a point of view that other people are like, I'm in supportive.(13:47):I think that sounds evil. It sounds just evil and really hard to contend with,Danielle (13:58):Which actually makes what the students do to walk out of their schools so much so profoundly resistant, so profoundly different. Walking itself is not violent kids themselves against man and masks fully. I've seen the pictures and I'm assuming they're true, fully geared up weapons at their side, tear gas, all this, and you just have kids walking. Just the stark contrast in the way they're expressing their humanity,Vanessa (14:30):Right? Yes. I think, yeah, I see that too, and I think it's shocking and to not recognize that, I think that's shocking for me when people don't recognize that what is going on with I think the cognitive process, what is going on with people in society, in American society where they look at children or people walking and they demonize it, but then they see the things and hear the things that this administration is doing and that they're seeing the things that our military is being forced to do and seeing the things that are happening with ice agents and they don't feel like there's anything wrong with it. That's just something that I'm trying to grapple with. I don't. I see it and you see it. Well, it is kind of like I don't know what to do with it.Danielle (15:34):So what do you do then when you hear what happens in your own body when you hear, oh, there's ice agents at my kid's school or we're things are on lockdown. What even happens for you in your body?Vanessa (15:48):I think what happens for me is what probably a lot of people are experiencing, which is immediate fear, immediate sorrow, immediate. I think I froze a few times thinking about it when it started happening here in Chicago more so I have a 17-year-old little brown boy, and we're tall people, so he is a big guy. He might look like a man. He is six something, six three maybe, but this is my little boy, this is my baby, and I have to send him out there every day immediately after feeling the shock and the sorrow of there's so many people in our generations. I could think of my parents, I could think of my grandparents that have fought so that my son can be in a better place and I feel like we're reverting. And so now he's going to experience something that I never want him to experience. And I feel like my husband and I have done a really great job of trying to prepare him for life with the fact that people are going to, some of them are going to see him in a different way or treat him in a different way. This is so different. The risk is so much greater because it's permissible now,(17:19):And so shock a freeze, and then I feel like life and vision for the future has halted for everybody here.(17:29):We can't have the conversation of where are we going? What is the vision of the future and how can I grow as a person? We're trying to just say, how can I get from A to Z today without getting stopped, without disappearing, without the fear completely changing my brain and changing my nervous system, and how can I find joy today? That is the big thing right now. So immediately there's this negative effect of this experience, and then there is the how can we recover and how can we stay safe? That's the big next step for us is I think people mentioned the word resilience and I feel like more people are very resilient and have historically been resilient, but it's become this four letter word. I don't want to be resilient anymore. I want to thrive. And I feel like that for my people. My community is like, why do we have to feel like we, our existence has to be surviving and this what's happening now with immigration and it's more than immigration. We know that it's not about just, oh, let's get the criminals. We know that this is targeted. There's proof out there, and the fact that we have to keep on bringing the proof up, it makes no sense. It just means if you don't believe it, then you've made a decision that you're not going to believe it. So it doesn't matter if we repeat it or not. It doesn't matter if you're right there and see it. So the fact that we have to even do the put out the energy of trying to get this message out and get people to be aware of it(19:24):Is a lot of energy on top of the fact that we're trying to survive this and there's no thriving right now. And that's the truth.Danielle (19:38):And the fact that people can say, oh, well, that's Chicago, that's not here, or that's Portland, that's not here. And the truth is it's here under the surface, the same hate, the same bigotry, the same racism, the same extreme violence. You can feel it bubbling under the surface. And we've had our own experiences here in town with that. I think. I know they've shut off funding for Pell grants.And I know that's happened. It happened to my family. So you even feel the squeeze. You feel the squeeze of you may get arrest. I've had the same talk with my very brown, curly hair, dark sun. I'm like, you can't make the mistakes other kids make. You can't walk in this place. You can't show up in this way. This is not a time where you can be you everywhere you go. You have to be careful.Vanessa (20:38):I think that's the big thing about our neighborhoods is that's the one place that maybe we could do that. That's the one place I could put my loud music on. That's the one place I could put my flags up. My Puerto Rican flags up and this is the one place that we could be. So for that to now be taken from us is a violence.Danielle (21:01):Yeah, it is a violence. I think the fact, I love that you said at the very beginning you said this, I was raised to think of what happens to me is happening to you. What happens to you is happening to me. What happens to them is happening to me and this idea of collective, but we live in a society that is forced separation, that wants to think of it separate. What enables you to stay connected to the people that love you and that are in your community? What inside of you drives that connection? What keeps you moving? I know you're not thriving, but what keeps youVanessa (21:37):Surviving? That's a good question. What keeps us surviving is I think it's honestly, I'll be really honest. It's the knowledge that I feel like I'm worth it.(21:53):I'm worth it. And I've done the work to get there. I've done the work to know my healing and to know my worth and to know my value. And in that, I feel like then I can make it My, and I have made it. My duty to do that for others is to say, you are worth it. You are so valuable. I need you and I know that you need me. And so I need to be well in order to be there for you. And that's important. I think. I see my kids, and of course they're a big motivator for me of getting up every day and trying to persevere and trying to find happiness with them and monitor their wellbeing and their mental health. And so that's a motivation. But that's me being connected with others. And so then there's family and friends that I'm connected with talking to my New York family all the time, and they're talking to me about what's going on there and them asking them what's going on there. And then we're contending with it. But then, so there's a process of crying about it, process of holding each other's hands and then process of reminding each other, we're not alone(23:12):And then processing another level of, and we can't give up. There's just too much to give up here. And so if it's going to be taken, we're going to take back our power and we're going to make it the narrative of what it's going to be, of how this fight is going to be fought. And that feels motivating. Something to do. There's just so much we've done, so much we've built(23:35):These communities have, I mean, sometimes they show the videos of ice agents and I'm like, wow, behind the scenes of the violence happening, you could see these beautiful murals. And I'm like, that's why we fight. That's why every day we get up, that's why we persevere is because we have been here. It wasn't like we just got here. We've been here and we've been doing the work and we've been building our communities. They are taking what we've grown. They're taking research from these universities. They're taking research from these young students who are out here trying to get more information so that it could better this community. So we've built so much. It's worth it. It's valuable and it's not going to be easily given.Danielle (24:29):Yeah, we have built so much. I mean, whether it's actually physically building the buildings to being involved in our schools and advocating because when we advocate just not for our rights, but in the past when we advocate for rights, I love what Cesar Chavez talks about when you're advocating for yourself, you're advocating for the other person. And so much of our advocacy is so inclusive of other people. And so I do think that there's some underestimation of our power or a lot, and I think that drives the other side mad. Literally insane.Vanessa (25:14):I think so too. I think this Saturdays protest is a big indicator of that. I know. Which you'll see me right there because what are we going to do? I mean, what are the things we can do things and we can do. And I feel like even in the moments when I am in session with a family or if I'm on a conversation with a friend, sometimes I post a lot of just what I see that I think is information that needs to get out there. And I am like somebody's going to see it and go like, oh, I didn't see that on my algorithm. And I get conversations from friends and family of, I need to talk about this. What are your thoughts about it? And I feel like that's a protest of we are going to join together in this experience and remind each other who we are in this moment and in this time. And then in that power, we can then make this narrative what we want it to be. And so it's a lot of work though. It's a lot of work and it's a lot of energy. So then it's a job right now. And I think that's why the word resilience is kind of a four letter word. Can we talk about the after effect? Because the after effect is depleted. There's just, I'm hungry. My nervous system is shot. How do I sleep? How do I eat? How do I take care and sell? soThe(26:54):A lot of work and we got to do it, but it's the truth of it. So both can exist, right? It's like how great and then how hard.Danielle (27:08):I love it that you said it's a job. It is an effing job, literally. It's like take care of your family, take care of yourself, whatever else you got going on. And then also how do you fight for your community? Because that's not something we're just going to stop doing.Literally all these extra work, all this extra work, all this extra job. And it's not like you would stop doing it, but it is extra.What do you think as jumping in back into the mental health field? And I told someone recently, they're like, oh, how's business going? I'm like, what do you mean? How's your client load? And I was like, well, sadly, the government has increased my caseload and the mental distress has actually in my profession, adds work to my plate.And I'm wondering for you what that's like. And it almost feels gross to me. Like someone out there is committing traumas that we all see, I see in the news I'm experiencing with my family, and then people need to come in more to get therapy, which is great. I'm glad we can have that process. But also, it's really gross to say your business has changed because the government is making more trauma on your people,Vanessa (28:29):Right? And I don't know if you experienced this, but I'm also feeling like there's this shift in what the sessions look like and what therapy looks like. Because it's one thing to work on past traumas or one thing to say, let's work on some of the cognitive distortions that these traumas have created and then move into vision and like, okay, well then without that, who are you and what are you and how can you move? And what would be your ideal future that you can work towards that has all halted? That's not available right now. I can't say you're not at risk. What happened to you way back is not something that's happening to you right now that it's not true. I can't tell those who are scientists and going into research, you're fine. You don't have to think about the world ending or your life as you know it ending because the life as people, their livelihoods are ending, have ended abruptly without any accountability, without any protection. It has halted. And a lot of these families I'm working with is we can't go into future that would serve me as let's go into the future. Let's do a vision board that would serve my agenda. But I'm going to be very honest with you, I have to validate the fact that there is a risk. My office is not far from Michigan Avenue. I could see it from here. My window's there, it's right out the window. I have families coming in and going, I'm afraid to come to session(30:25):Because they just grabbed somebody two years ago and no one said anything that was around them. I have no one that I can say in this environment that is going to protect me, but they come anyway because they freaking need it. And so then the sessions are that the sessions are the safe place. The only semblance of safety for them. And that's a big undertaking I think emotionally for us as therapists is how do I sit and this is happening. I don't have an answer for you on how to view this differently. It is what it is. And also this is the only safe place. I need to make sure that you're safe with the awareness. You're going to leave my office and I'm going to sit with that knowledge. So it's so different. I feel it's changed what's happening.Danielle (31:27):Oh man, I just stopped my breath thinking of that. I was consulting with a supervisor. I still meet with supervision and get consult on my cases, and I was talking about quote anxiety, and my supervisor halted me and she's like, that's not anxiety. That's the body actually saying there's a real danger right now. This is not what we talk about in class, what you studied in grad school. This is like of court. That body needs to have that level of panic to actually protect themselves from a real threat right now. And my job isn't to try to take that away.Vanessa (32:04):Right? Right. Yeah. And sometimes before that was our job, right? Of how can I bring the adult online because the child when they were powerless and felt unsafe, went through this thing. Now it's like, no, this adult is very much at risk right now when they leave this room and I have to let them say that right now and let them say whatever it is that they need to say, and I have to address it and recognize what it is that they need. How can I be supportive? It is completely mind blowing how immediate this has changed. And that in itself is also a trauma. There had not been any preparing for, we were not prepared,Danielle (32:57):Vanessa. Then even what is your nervous system? I'm assuming it goes up and it comes down and it goes, what is it like for your own nervous system to have the experience of sitting in your office see shit some bad shit then with the client, that's okay. And then you don't know what's happening. What's happening even for you in your own nervous system if you're willing to share?Vanessa (33:24):Yeah, I'm willing to share. I'm going through it with everybody else. I really am. I'm having my breakdowns and I have my therapist who's amazing and I've increased my sessions with her. My husband and I are trying to figure out how do we hold space and also keep our life going in a positive way. How do we exemplify how to deal with this thing? We're literally writing the book for our kids as we go. But for me, I find it important to let my, I feel like it's my intuition and my gut and my spirit lead more so in my sessions. There have been moments where I find it completely proper to cry with my clients, to let my tears show.(34:34):I find that healing for them to see that I am moved by what they are sharing with me, that they are not wrong to cry. They're not wrong. That this is legitimate. And so for me, that is also healing for me to let my natural disposition of connection and of care below more, and then I need to sleep and then I need to eat as healthy as possible in between sessions, food in my mouth. I need to see beauty. And so sometimes I love to see art especially. So I have a membership to the art museum, a hundred bucks a month, I mean a year. And that's my birthday gift to me every year around March. I'm like, that's for me, that's my present. And I'll go there to see the historical art and go to the Mexican art museum, which is be beautiful. I mean, I love it. And that one, they don't even charge you admission. You give a donation to see the art feels like I am connecting with those who've come before me and that have in the midst of their hardships, they've created and built,(36:06):And then I feel more grounded. But it isn't every day. There are days and I am not well, and I'll be really honest with that. And then I have to tell my beautiful aunt in New York, I'm not doing good today. And then she pours into me and she does that. She'll do that with me too. Hey, I'm the little niece. I ain't doing all right. Then I pour into her. So it's a lot of back and forth. But like I said before, I've done the work. I remember someone, I think it was Sandra, in fact, I think Sandra, she said to me one time, Vanessa sleeping is holy.Like, what? Completely changed my mind. Yeah, you don't have to go into zero. You don't have to get all the way depleted. It's wholly for you to recover. So I'm trying to keep that in mind in the midst of all of this. And I feel like it's done me well. It's done me really good So far. I've been really working hard on it.Danielle (37:19):I just take a big breath because it isn't, I think what you highlight, and that's what's good for people to know is even as therapists, even as leaders in our communities, we have to still do all these little things that are necessary for our bodies to keep moving. You said sleep, eat the first one. Yeah, 1 0 1. And I just remember someone inviting me to do something recently and I was just like, no, I'm busy. But really I just needed to go to bed and that was my busy, just having to put my head down. And that feeling of when I have that feeling like I can put my head down and close my eyes and I know there's no immediate responsibility for me at my house. That's when I feel the day kind of shed a bit, the burden kind of lessens or the heightened activity lessens. Even if something comes up, it's just less in that moment.Vanessa (38:28):Yes, I agree. Yeah, I think those weekends are holy for me. And keeping boundaries around all of this has been helpful. What you're saying, and no thank you. Next, I'll get you next time. And not having to explain, but taking care of yourself. Yeah. So importantDanielle (38:51):Vanessa. So we're out here in Washington, you're over there in Chicago, and there's a lot of folks, I think in different places in this United States and maybe elsewhere that listen and they want to know what can they do to support, what can they do to jump on board? Is there practical things that we can do for folks that have been invaded? Are there ways we can help from here? I'm assuming prayers necessary, but I tell people lately, I'm like, prayer better also be an action or I don't want it. So what in your imagination are the options? And I know they might be infinity, but just from your perspective.Vanessa (39:36):Yeah, what comes to mind I think is pray before you act. Like you just said, for guidance and honestly, calling every nonprofit organization that's within the black and brown community right now and saying, what is it that you need? I think that would be a no-brainer for me. And providing that. So if they're like, we need money. Give that money. We need bodies, we need people, volunteers to do this work, then doing that. And if they need anything that you can provide, then you're doing that. But I think a lot of times we ask the question, what do you need? And that makes the other person have to do work to figure out to help you to get somewhere. And so even though it comes from a very thoughtfulI would say maybe go into your coffers and say, what can I give before you ask the question? Because maybe just offering without even there being a need might be what you just got to do. So go into your coffers and say, what do I have that I can give? What is it that I want to do? How do I want to show up? Asking that question is the first thing to then lead to connecting in action. So I think that that might be my suggestion and moving forward.Danielle (41:05):One thing I was thinking of, if people have spare money, sometimes I think you can go to someone and just pay for their therapy.Vanessa (41:23):Agree. Yeah. Offer free therapy. If you are a licensed therapist in another city, you have colleagues that are in the cities that you want to connect with and maybe saying, can I pay for people that want therapy and may not be able to afford it? Maybe people who their insurance has been cut, or maybe people who have lost income. If there's anybody, please let me know. And I want to send that money to them to pay for that, and they don't have to know who I am. I think that's a beautiful way of community stepping up for each other.Danielle (41:59):The other thing I think of never underestimate the power of cash. And I know it's kind of demonized sometimes, like, oh, you got to give resources. But I find just sending people when you can, 20, 15, 30, 40 bucks of people on the ground, those people that really love and care about their community will put that money to good use. And you don't actually need a receipt on what it went for.So Vanessa, how can people get ahold of you or find out more about you? Do you write? Do you do talks? Tell me.Vanessa (42:39):Yeah, like I said, I am busy, so I want to do all of those things where I'm not doing those things now, but people can contact me through the practice that I work in the website, and that is deeper connections counseling. And my email is vanessa@dcctherapy.com. And in any way that anybody wants to connect with me, they can do that there.  Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. TAKE ACTION Rising Voices campaign for Lue Yang Mohan Karki's GoFundMe   And please help support these organizations working to support detained and deported folx: Asian Law Caucus Asian Refugees United Ba Lo Project in Vietnam Collective Freedom in Vietnam & Laos Asian Prisoner Support Committee & New Light Wellness in Cambodia November 1–2, people nationwide are joining the Disappeared In America Weekend of Action to stand up for immigrant families and defend due process. Actions include protests at Home Depots, candlelight Freedom Vigils, and Day of the Dead events honoring lives lost to detention.   The following day, November 3, 4pm Pacific time, 7pm Eastern Time, Join us for “We Belong Here, Bhutanese & Hmong Americans in the Struggle Against Statelessness” a live virtual event featuring my three guests tonight, along with performances and conversations. bit.ly/WBH-2025   We Belong Here! Show Transcript Miko Lee: Welcome to Apex Express. This is your host, Miko Lee. Today we're talking about detentions and potential deportations and the atrocities that the Trump administration is creating in our communities. And today I am so honored to have three guests with me, Tika Basnet, and Ann Vu, and Aisa Villarosa. Tika and Ann they're part of a horrible club, which is both of their spouses are currently in detention from our immigration system. But I just wanna start on a real personal note in a way that I often do with my guests. Anne, I'm gonna start with you. I just would love to hear from you, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Ann Vue: Thank you again, Miko and Isa, you guys for having me on. So we are Hmong. And we helped Americans during the Vietnam War. And so, during the Vietnam War in Laos, a lot of our pilots needed a communication. And because we're indigenous and we are in the mountains, they were able to speak with us and use us. And so a lot of our Hmong, what they did or what they contributed helped a lot of the pilots rescued a lot, like thousands and thousands of Americans, really, so that that way they can make it back home, right? And so that is our contribution to the American people. And so when we were brought to America, was to resettle because of humanitarian purpose. Really because of our legacy of helping Americans with the war, right? So that is who we are and what we bring to America. And that's who I am. I'm, and I'm actually the first generation Hmong American too. So I was born right here in the capital of Lansing, Michigan. Miko Lee: Thanks so much ann. And Tika, can you share who are your people and what legacy you carry with you? Tika Basnet: Yes. Hi, my name is Tika Basnet. So I am Bhutanese Nepali community. My parents and all the Bhutanese, they ran away from Bhutan in 1990 due to the ethnic cleansing. And they came to Nepal, seeking for asylum, and that is where we born. I was born in Nepal, in refugee camp. Even though I was born in Nepal, Nepal never gave us identity. They never give us citizenship, so we were known as Bhutanese Nepali, but as known as Stateless. And yeah, my husband also born in Nepal in a refugee camp. Miko Lee: Thank you, Tika. And Aisa, I'm gonna ask the same question for you Aisa, my friend that works at Asian Law Caucus. Who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Aisa Villarosa: So much love to you, Miko and to you Ann and Tika for being here today. I just am, I'm so honored.My name is Aisa and I carry the love and, Maki Baka spirit of Filipino Americans both in my family across the diaspora. A little bit about the Filipino American story. We came to the United States as part of the colonial machine. The first Filipinos were brought as part of the Spanish Gallian trade. We made California home, parts of Louisiana home, and it's quite a contrast to a lot of the sort of model minority seduction that many of my people, and myself as a younger person tended to fall into that if we kept our heads down, if we were quiet, we would be left alone. I'm struck because at this moment of just unprecedented government attacks, so many of our communities have this story where someone somewhere said to us, yeah, just keep your head down and it'll be fine. And we're seeing the exact opposite, that this is the time to really use our voices, both individually and as one. And I'm also an artist and try to infuse that into my work in fighting government systems. Miko Lee: Thank you Aisa. And in the interest of fairness, I will say I'm Miko. I am fifth generation Chinese American. I grew up knowing that my family was full of fighters that built the railroads, worked in the gold mines in laundromats and restaurants, and my parents walked with Dr. King and Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta, and I was raised in a family of social justice activists. So I feel like our legacy is to continue that work and to fight for the rights of our peoples. That being said, I'm so honored to have both of all three of you powerful women join me today. And as I was saying in the beginning, Tika and Anne are sadly a part of this club. Nobody wants to be a part of this club with the sudden, unexpected, harmful detentions of both of your husbands. I wonder if you can each just share the story about what happened and how you first found out about your husband being detained. And let's start with you Tika. Tika Basnet: So, my husband got his removal in 2014 when he was like minor. Just 17 years old, high school student going from school to home and, he's a teenager and with his friend, like they were playing around and they wanna go home really fast. So they just cross from private property. And I think that is where someone saw and call 911. So we came from the culture that we love to go people home , walking around, playing around. So my husband came here in 2011. The incident happened on 2013. So he was just, came here without knowing culture, without knowing languages, So he has no idea. So when somebody called 911, he could not explain what happened. First of all, English is his second language, he was barely here without knowing rules and regulation, without knowing culture. The police get them and then they took him to jail I think police gave a lot of charges. And even until now, my husband doesn't know what are those charges? At that time, nobody explained, this is the three charges you got, and this could lead to deportation. And he feel guilty without knowing those charges. And just because he trusts Nepali translate guy, and he told my husband, like, if you don't say I'm guilty, you will end up in prison for 20 to 25 years, but if you say I'm guilty, you'll go home. And my husband said, guilty. And at that time, neither criminal lawyer told my husband, like, if you say I'm guilty, you'll end up getting deport. Deport to the contrary that you are you never born. Deport To the contrary, you doesn't even speak their language. And even the lawyer did not explain my husband like, you will not gonna get your green card. You cannot apply your citizenship in your life. If all of, if those things like the lawyer told my husband at that time, he will never gonna say, I am guilty to the crime that he did not even commit. And so when they tried to deport my husband back then, Bhutan say, he's not my citizenship, he's not from my country, We don't know this guy. He's not belongs to here. And when US Embassy reach out to, Nepal, do you know this guy? They told, ICE no, we don't know this guy, like he's not belongs here. And then the ICE officer, they told my husband, like, we can let you go, you need to come here, like order of supervision every years, every three months, every six months, whenever we call you. And it been 11 years. My husband is following rules and regulation. After that incident, never police arrest him. He did not even get criminal record. He did not even get misdemeanor record. So basically he never did any violation after that. So he was following, he got married, he has a life, he pay taxes. He was taking care of his family and in 11 years he was doing everything. And in 2025 for the first time they target Bhutanese Nepali community. And at that time I knew that this is the last time I'm gonna see my husband. And that is a time I think I broke down. Like, when they detained my husband in April 8, I was eight months pregnant. And um, like we dream a lot of things like, you know, we are gonna take care of our daughter. We are gonna buy home, we are gonna work, we are gonna give her the life that we, I'm sorry. Miko Lee: Totally. Okay. Tika Basnet: So, yeah. Um, like I never thought like Bhutanese community can, like deport. Like my parent already , go through this trauma, you know, when Bhutan throw them away due to ethnic cleansing and same thing happening to us. It is unbelievable. I cannot believe that, we're going through this again and I don't know when this gonna be stopped. I don't know whether like my husband gonna come home. I dunno. Like I'm fighting and it is been five month and I really want my husband back. Like my daughter today is, she's three month old. She need her dad in life. 'cause I cannot provide everything by myself. My husband is the main provider for her aging parent. 'cause even now they cannot pay bills. Like they have really hard time paying bills. And this is the reason, like I'm fighting for my husband case and I want my husband back. And I think he deserve second chance because if you see his record is clean, like for one incident that happened like 12 years ago, that cannot define my husband. Like who he is right now, you know? So yeah, this is what happened. Like I cannot believe that my husband is able to get deport to the country that doesn't even accept. And I don't know whether he gonna get killed. I dunno what, whether he gonna disappear, I don't know what will happen to him. I don't know if it is last time I'm gonna see him. Miko Lee: Tika, thank you so much for sharing your story. And just to recap really briefly, your husband, Mohan Karki when he was a teenager, newly arrived in the country, was leaving high school, walked with his friends through a backyard and was suddenly racially profiled. And the neighbor called police because he was trespassing on property.He was born at a refugee camp. Is that right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Miko Lee: And so there was not property that was like person's property on that refugee camp. So that whole concept of walking across somebody's land was something he was not aware of. He had an interpreter that did not give correct or full information. And so he signed something, including a deportation order, that he wasn't actually, wasn't even aware of until recently when he was put into detention. Is that right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Yes. Miko Lee: And right now he's in detention. You're, you live in Ohio, but he's in detention in Michigan, right? Tika Basnet: Yes. Miko Lee: Okay, Tika, let's talk about Mohans case and what's happening. He's held in detention right now in a detention facility in Michigan. And what is going on with his case? Tika Basnet: Yeah, I don't wanna say a lot of things about his case, but our attorney, his criminal attorney does file, a Motion to Redeem asking BIA to send that, case back to Georgia and we recently hired, criminal attorney to fight for his case, that happened in 2013. And our attorney just submit documentation where he's asking to release my husband because it'd been five month. And he's not risk to the community. He's not risk to the flight. 'cause he doesn't have no one in Bhutan. He doesn't have no one in Nepal. He's all family is in here. So his community love him ,he has family that loves him. And, we also get lot of documentations as a proof telling ICE officer that my husband is not risk to the community or, to the flight. Miko Lee: Thank you. And he has a new baby, a four month old baby that he has yet to meet. So that is a powerful reason to stay. And as Tikas pointing out, the lawyer just submitted documentation along with 50 letters of support from the community , from employers, from family members, all saying why he should stay in this country. Thank you so much for sharing. And Anne, i'm wondering if you could share about what happened to your husband. He was also born in a refugee camp, right? Ann Vue: So, Lou was born in Nangkai, Thailand refugee camp. In 1978 and in 1979 his parents and him and his older brother received parole for legal entry. I think the exact word was, they were paroled pursuant under section 212D5 of the I and N Act, which means that they are granted urgent humanitarian reasons for or for public benefit. Right. Because my father-in-law had helped and during the war. And so he received his visa in September. I just lookeded back at all of his history there and then they made it to America right before Halloween 'cause my father-in-law was like, I always remembered it because in the country of Asia, they're scared of halloween, scary Halloween stuff. And so when they came, they were like, oh my gosh. There were, Jesus says, I remember there were just a lot of zombies, right? And we were so scared because we were like, and so I always remember that about, you know, I'll fast forward it to 1997, right when he just turned, I believe 18 and very similar to Tika, you know, her husband too. And a lot of times, in the early nineties, me even being the first generation American here, racism played a lot. And we all went through that piece and our parents not speaking English at the same time, they were going to school themselves so that they can learn our English language, right. And they weren't able to teach us growing up. So we had to kind of fend for ourselves. And I would say my husband he went out with some friends. He did not commit the crime. But of course now that is brought back to him, he understood about his particular case is second attempt, home invasion. Nobody was harmed. He was in the vehicle, in the backseat when he was caught. And he didn't wanna partake, but he didn't wanna stop them either, you know? 'cause to him it was like, if I don't partake, then I have nothing to do with it. Right. Because if I do, then they might not be my friends anymore. I mean, it's just a part of growing up as a youth. But because he was there, and then would receive a court appointed attorney, and then provide it very similar to Tika's too. Had an interpreter, that was explaining to them, was provided bad legal advice. He had nothing, no knowledge about how this would impact his immigration status. He would take a plea, and it was advised by their attorney, take the plea it's easier, you know, and you probably serve less than a year. You'll be out, you'll only be in the county jail anyways 'cause you didn't really commit the crime and technically it should have been a misdemeanor. But because you're an accomplice , that kind of falls under this category. So he took the plea, he served 10 months in a county jail. He actually was released for good behavior. He even finished his probation soon because he paid all of his stuff off. And he even finished a youth advocate program, a youth training program for anybody that committed crimes between the age of 18 to 21. I actually just saw this form the other day and I was reading it and it talks about, you know, the one thing about our parents, experiencing the war and coming to America, they don't talk about it. And a lot of us are from communist countries . We're, we are very afraid to voice our voices, because someone can take action. And our parents never talked about it. And I read what he wrote to his, youth coordinator, and he wrote, he felt so bad about what he did. He created disappointment for his parents and he understands now after his parents told him, there are sacrifices that got us here to America. And he literally wrote all of this down, he's going to be a better person, is what he wrote. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to make my parents proud now that I understand their sacrifices. And, they asked him, well what was your upbringing like? And in one sentence, he wrote, poor, right? So he wrote, poor and the coordinator wrote on the bottom of his comments said, Lou is remorseful for what has happened or for what ha what has happened, and very remorseful and he wants to be a better person. I have no other questions. The training is complete. He doesn't need any further, support and believes that he will move forward to be a better person. That's what literally what they wrote on the document. Then fast forwarding to 1999 , after everything was done and he served, that's when, immigration showed up at his house. And from there moved forward to explain to him what had happened. And once that happened, of course him and I would meet in 2000, and then we'd be married in 2001. Right? So we'd celebrate. Almost 24 and a half years of marriage. Right? So we did appeal his case in the humanitarian piece of what this meant for Lou during the time where we all fled the country. Once we were, once the monks were declared enemy of the state by the LDR in Laos, we fled. And once we fled, it's well documented that there was a little bit over 400,000 of us there right after all the genocide and the killings of the Hmong there was probably less than 45,000 of us left, right? And so once we understood a lot of that, we wanted to do better. We wanted to really service our community, right? So. Fast forwarding it. We appealed the case. The case was then denied I believe in 2002. And even in his letters, in his appeal letters, general Vink Powell, which led the, Hmongs during, in the war, even had a letter in there where he, to also pled why Hmongs need to stay here in America, right. And why we need to bring the rest of our people to this country. The reality is our whole family, Lou's whole family was wiped out. We don't have anybody, Lou doesn't have anyone, right? And so you know, that goes to Tikas thing too. There's nobody there. And, going back to the case once it was denied in 2002, of course he then. Was forced to reach out to the embassy and reached out to the embassy and was denied, entry into Thailand 'cause that's where he was born. We're stateless too, just like Tikas husband. We were denied by Thailand. We were also denied by Laos stating that we are not a citizen of theirs. They do not allow or welcome any sort of entry. And then in 2006, that's when they actually took his green card was in 2006 and then we prompt again we were denied. And then in 2008 we were denied a third time and that's when his immigration officer was like, just move on and start your life. Laos and Thailand, will never sign a repatriation act with America because of you guys, because of the Hmong people, what you guys have done to their country, making it the most bombed country during the war without even being a part of the war. So therefore, they will never allow you guys or accept you guys back. And so we were like, okay. So we moved forward and then in 2014, this immigration officer, which we was doing yearly checkups at this time, was like, Hey go get your citizenship, get your green card. They're like you're doing so good. You know, you probably could have a chance to get it. That's when we moved forward to apply for citizenship and for all we did for the green card and then for citizenship. And of course we were denied in 2015 and we know how expensive this is. You pay $10,000 outright, you don't get that money back. You just have to go at it again, right? And so, uh, we decided that, you know what, we're gonna get his case expunged, and so. We got his case expunged in 2018, no questions asked. It was very straightforward. Once it was expunged, we continued, with our lives. Very involved in the community. And we had all of our children by that time already, so we had six kids already. So fast forwarding to that, and then leading up to his detainment, which this year we even called his immigration officer and he was like, Hey, don't worry about it, Lou, we're moving you over to Grand Rapids and you should be fine. Just make sure that you stay outta trouble, continue to follow your stock and I think what triggered it was when we applied for his work permit in April. Because he was supposed to, he always meets his immigration officer at the end of the year, and we renewed his work permit is what triggered it. And so of course, the money was cashed out, everything the checks went through while we were receiving that, he was gonna be here, everything was gonna be fine. And then leading up to July 15th where he was detained at work, early morning of six 30 in the morning, the detained officer they they told him that they know who he is to the community, so they have to do it this way because they don't want any problems. They don't want media, they don't want reporters. He did play with them. He did ask them because he rode his motorcycle for some weird reason. He has not taken his bike out, his motorcycle out in the last three years. But for some reason that night he was like, I just wanna take my bike. So he took his bike that night and when ICE told him, do you have somebody come get your bike? You need to call somebody to come get your bike. And he was like, nobody in my family rides motorcycles. Like we don't, I don't have anyone to come get my bike. And I think there was some empathy and compassion for him. He was like, okay, let me check on something. Because my husband was like, can I just take my bike back? I've got six kids. I've got my grandma at home and my parents are also at my house right now. I just wanna see them and I just wanna take my bike back. So they asked him, if we let you go, we asked will you like please don't run. Right? And so they followed my husband home and my husband literally called me at 6 37 in the morning and he was like, Hey, ICE is, here they got me. So I'm like, what? What's going on? So it was just so surreal. I was so shocked. And so it's about a 30 minute drive from his workplace back to our house. And um, when he got there, um, they, there were already officers, like there were, it was packed tight in our driveway. So our driveway's pretty far up because we live in the country. And so, there were like five or six cop cars there too. So we had to walk about half a mile down to go see him. They wouldn't allow him to enter where our home was. And the officer told, my husband, told him that they're so sorry. They have to do it this way. They know who he is. They don't want any problems, they don't want any reports in media out here. And I will say my experience was a little bit different from others. They did take their mask off when they took him in, they were respectful so that part is that much. They even, you know, talk to my two older boys like, “Hey, you guys have money. I could put the money in your dad's account.” We're, take him into Grand Rapids, we're gonna process him, and then we're gonna take him to the detention center, which is gonna be involved in Michigan. So they were very open about these steps, what they were doing with him, at least that much. But I will say that it was my grandma, of course she has chronic pulmonary disease stage four. So at that point we, we couldn't haul her fast enough because we only saw him for like maybe a quick minute, and that was it. And so they did ask us to turn around because they had to take him back and they didn't want my, our little ones to see them cuffing him. Miko Lee: They actually said, Anne, we don't want any media to be watching this? Ann Vue: I don't want any problems. Miko Lee: Mm. And and your husband is also quite well known in the Hmong community, right? Ann Vue: He is Miko Lee: and so probably, they were worried about folks coming out and protesting. Is that, do you think that was the case? Ann Vue: That's what I'm assuming, because I don't remember their exact words saying media, but I do remember they were saying that they didn't want people around, they didn't want to create issues for the community.I am assuming that correct, because if he would've gotten the letter just like everybody did, which everybody then would receive the letter on Friday, and because my husband is a community leader, he is the Hmong Family Association's president, we restart receiving. Many, many calls where everybody just wanted to talk to Lou 'cause they needed to know what's going on, how to handle, what to do. And so at that moment I realized, oh my gosh, they detained my husband first this way. And then everybody else got a letter. Miko Lee: And the ICE officer that he had been checking in with routinely has, have you all been in touch with that same ICE officer? Ann Vue: He has been, I think in the last seven or eight years.Yeah. It's been the same guy. Miko Lee: But has he been in touch with him since he was detained? Ann Vue: He hasn't. Miko Lee: Has not, no. So they had different people come in even, 'cause he was the person that said everything's okay, keep going with your life. Ann Vue: Oh yeah. Miko Lee: And so no contact with him whatsoever since the detention? Ann Vue: No. Miko Lee: Can you give a little bit of an update of Lou's case and what's going on with him right now? Ann Vue: I don't know as much. Maybe I may have to have Aisa respond to the legality piece around it. 'cause I know we're, they've been doing, working around the clock and working hard on strategy. Miko Lee: Okay. Thank you so much, Aisa. Before we move into that, I just wanna point out, for all of our listeners, how many similarities there are in these two cases. And in both of these, you know, these amazing women are here supporting their spouses, both, spouses born in refugee camps. Dealing with intergenerational trauma from families that had to escape ethnic cleansing or involved in a war, came into the United States under, legal properties through refugee resettlement acts, made mistakes as young people, partially due to culture and wanting to fit in. They served their time, they paid their dues. They were racially profiled to be able to actually be in those positions that they were in. They suffered from incredible immigration policy failure with bad advice, with a system that's broken. And now both of them are detained. Not yet deported, but detained. Many of the community members have already been deported and they're facing statelessness. And we're seeing this not just with Bhutanese and Hmong folks, but with Mien and Lao and Haitian and El Salvadorian. And we could fill in the blank of how many other peoples in other communities are facing this. So, we also know that these private detention centers where people are being held, are making millions and millions of dollars, and it's connected into our corrupt political system that's in place right now. We also know and Aisa, I'm wondering if you could, talk about the case, but also about some of the deals that we think have had to be made with Laos and Bhutan in order for these deportations to even take place. So Aisa from Asian Law Caucus, I'm gonna pass it to you to go over some of the legal ramifications. Aisa Villarosa: Of course, Miko, and thank you for it for the context. And there are so many parallels that we as advocates must uplift because this is not the time to be divided. This is really the time to build solidarity that we've long known needs to happen. And, and this is really the moment. What Miko is referring to is, uh, largely, um, something that we've observed around the travel bans. So. Earlier this year, right around the time that the Trump administration took hold, there was a draft travel ban list that leaked across a number of media outlets, the Times, et cetera, and the same countries we're talking about today, Bhutan, Laos. These were historically not countries that were subject to sanctions, like the travel ban, and yet here they were. And so a lot of us were scratching our heads and asking, you know, what, why is this happening? Our theory, and this is a theory that is now also manifesting in a number of FOIA requests or Freedom of Information Act requests that are submitted from Asian Law Caucus to departments like the State Department ice, the Department of Homeland Security. Asking the same question that Tika and Anne are asking, which is, how are these deportations even happening? Because they were not happening until this year. And what very likely happened was a bit of a quid pro quo. So in removing Bhutan, removing Laos from this list where they could be sanctioned as a country, there was likely some backdoor deal that took place between the US State Department and Bhutanese officials and the US officials, where essentially there was some form of an agreement that there would be an acceptance or a supposed acceptance of a certain number of folks from these communities. That is why around March, around April for the Bhutanese refugee community, for example, we started seeing pickups very similar to Mohans case, where, many people who had perhaps made some mistakes in their youth or had really old criminal convictions were swept off the streets and thrust into these really rapid deportation proceedings. I don't even know if proceedings is the right word, because there essentially was no proceeding. You know, the Immigration Court is very much a cloaked process. The immigration judge is kind of judge and jury wrapped up together, which is very different than many of us might turn on the TV and see something like Law and order. An immigration court works a very different way where this piece of paper, this final removal order, basically gives ICE a lot of bandwidth to make these deportations happen. However, that doesn't mean we should just accept that this is happening. We know that just basic procedures of fairness are not being met. We know, too that in the case of, for example, the Bhutanese community ICE officers have come to the wrong house. And put a lot of people in fear. So racial profiling was happening even before this recent Supreme Court decision, which essentially now condones racial profiling, right? As criteria that the ICE can use. I also just wanted to talk about this trend too, that we're seeing with so many cases. It happened to Lou, it happened to Mohan, where in someone's underlying criminal court case, maybe they were given a court appointed attorney. In many cases, they were not told of the immigration impacts of, say, taking a plea. There is a Supreme Court case called Padilla versus Kentucky and basically the law shifted such that in many cases there now is a duty for a court appointed public defender to actually talk to folks like Mohan and Lou about the immigration consequences of their plea. So when Tika mentioned that there's something called a post-conviction relief effort for Mohan. That's happening in Georgia. This is very much what that legal defense looks like, where, an expert attorney will look at that very old court record, see if those rights were violated, and also talk to Mohan and make sure did that violation happen and is that grounds for reopening an immigration case. For Lou, there is a really mighty pardoning campaign that's brewing in the state of Michigan. So in Michigan, governor Gretchen Whitmer does have the authority to in some cases expedite a pardon in process. We're hoping that this public swelling of support from Mohan will result in a pardon, because importantly, even if Mohans conviction was expunged, which can be very helpful in, for example, state court, arenas, things like, applying for certain jobs. Unfortunately, in the immigration arena the expungement does not have that same weight as say a vacating, or a motion to vacate that criminal record. So it's super frustrating because, so much of this turns ethically, morally on- do we, as people believe in second chances, and I know most people do, and [00:35:00] yet here we are really. Based on a technicality. I also just want to name too that Lou as a person is both a natural organizer and he is a spiritual guide of his community. So something that many folks don't know is because of so much of the trauma that Anne talked about, both from, supporting the Americans during the Secret War, many Hmong folks who came to the States, they actually in some cases died in their sleep because of this, almost unexplained weight of the trauma, right? And so it almost underscores. The importance of Lou, not just to his family, but this family is a collective family, right? He's both a mentor for so many, he's a spiritual guide for so many. And so you know, him being away from his family, away from community, it's like a double, triple wound. And then for Mohan, I'd love to uplift this memory I have of , a moment in June when Tika gave us a call, and at that point, Mohan had called Tika and said, they're taking me, I'm being deported. And at that point, they were removing Mohan from the ICE facility in Butler, Ohio and transporting him to. At first we had no idea. Then we learned it was, toward the Detroit airport or that deportation to Bhutan and Tika was forced to essentially delay her childbirth. It was very much in the range of when she was due to give birth to their daughter. But because the clock was ticking, Tika drove to Butler, literally begged for Mohan's life as our organizing and advocacy and legal team was trying to get together this emergency stay of deportation. That fortunately came through at the 11th hour. But the fact that Mohan remains in this facility in St. Clair, Michigan, that he's never held his daughter is unacceptable, is ridiculous. And I think so much of these two cases almost, this invisible brotherhood of pain that I know Ann has talked to me about that. Because Lou right now has been in a couple facilities. He is organizing, he's doing his thing and actually supporting folks while also just trying to keep himself well, which is no easy feat to do in so many of these facilities. Especially because, in Alexandria, for example, which is a facility in Louisiana. We know that folks are sleeping on cement floors. We know that folks are not being fed, that there's a lot of human rights violations going on. And here is Lou still continuing to use his voice and try to advocate for the folks around him. Miko Lee: Aisa thank you so much for putting that into context, and we'll put links in the show notes for how folks can get involved in both of these cases. One is, Rising Voices has a call to action to reach out to Governor Whitmer for that. Pardon in Campaign for Lou. So we encourage folks to do that. And in terms of Mohan, there's a GoFundMe to help support Tika and the immense lawyer fees, which we discussed that are needed. And also a letter writing campaign to the ICE director Kevin Roff, to try and release Mohan and also Lou. These are really important things that are happening in our community, and thank you for being out there. Thank you for talking and sharing your stories. We really appreciate you. And also, just briefly, I'd love us for us to talk for a minute about how many folks in our Asian American communities, we don't wanna talk about mistakes that we have made in the past because we might consider that shameful. And therefore, in both of these communities, when we started organizing, it was really hard at first to find people to come forth and share their stories. So I wonder if both of you can give voice to a little about that, the power you found in yourself to be able to come forward and speak about this, even though some other folks in the community might not feel comfortable or strong enough to be able to talk. Tika, can you speak to that? Tika Basnet: Yeah. So what makes me really strong, and I wanna see that my husband case is because he was 17, people can make mistake and from those mistake, if people are learning. Then I think Americans should consider, 'cause my husband did make mistake and I wish that time he knew the rules and regulation. I wish like somebody taught him that he's not supposed to go somebody else property, like around in backyard. And I wish he was been in the United States like more than one and a half year. I wish, if he was like more than two years, three years. And I think that time he, from high school, he could learn. You know, he's not supposed to go there. He was just been in the United States like one and a half year just going to high school. Nobody taught him. His parent doesn't even speak English. Until now, he doesn't even, they doesn't even speak, like nobody in our community knew rules and regulation. So no, basically that he doesn't have guide, like mentor to taught him like, and even though he did make mistake and he's really sorry, and from those mistake learning a lot, and he never get into trouble, like after 11 years, he was clean, he work, he pay taxes. And I think, that is the reason that I really wanna come forward. You know, people can make mistake, but learning from those mistake that changed people life. And, and I think, the reason that I'm coming forward is because organization like Asian Law Caucus, ARU, and, Miko, a lot of people helped me. You know, they taught me like people can make mistake and, I think we shouldn't be same. And I really wanna give example to my daughter, you know, that, you are fighting for justice and you shouldn't fear. I think, what is right is right. What is wrong is wrong. But if somebody's make mistake and they are not, doing that mistake again, I think the people can get a second chance. And I think my husband deserves second chance and he's 30 years old. He has a family, he has a wife, children and he deserved to be here. We came here legally, my husband came here. Legally, we, promise that we'll get home and this is our home. We wanna stay here and I really want my husband be home soon so he can play with her daughter to play with his daughter. Miko Lee: Thank you so much, Tika. Ann I wonder if you could talk to the strength that it takes for you to come forward and speak about your husband and your family. Ann Vue: I'm a community leader with my husband too, right? I would say that there was a moment when he was first detained where I was in complete silence. I was so shocked. It took my attorney, Nancy, just talking to me about it. Of course, back to what Aisa said earlier in our communities, we're afraid. I was so scared. I didn't know what to do. It took me visiting my husband in Baldwin and letting him know that, hey, a bunch of community members are now reaching out and I think it's hit our community. And that's that. At that moment, he was like, you have to say something. You have to say something you have to make noise because you have a, 50% chance, right? We have a 50 50 chance. 50%. They're gonna send me 50%. You're gonna feel bad if you don't say anything, right? 50 here, 50 there. It doesn't matter. But a hundred percent regret if you don't say something. I thought about it and he was like, well, go out there, be my voice. He's like, you've always been my voice. You got this right. And so when, I didn't say no to Nancy. 'cause she really wanted to talk to our rep Mai you know about this. And , Mai and I are pretty close too. And, I just knew if I said anything, Maya's gonna be like mm-hmm. All the way. Right? So I just let Nancy help me, and my most vulnerable time. And I'm glad that she did. And I'm glad that we did get this out. It is the most important thing for us, and I've been, I will say what keeps me going is all of those that have been impacted by this, from people like Tika. I have many, I call 'em sisters. We're all in a lot of these group chats together. They've been also keeping me going. Our amazing team of attorneys and everybody just strategizing through this unprecedented time. It's really everyone's voices. I get to talk to Lou daily. It's definitely not cheap, but he gets to share each story of each person. I believe that everybody has a story and they might not be as lucky as maybe Tika or my husband, but at least now I have their story. I will be their voice. I will tell each person's story, each name, each alien number that I track down, my husband's even literally learned how to count in Spanish, just so he can give them like my phone number in Spanish in case they need to call an emergency. Oh, I'm be getting a lot of calls. Right. I would say that that is what keeps me going because I think that Tika and I and many others are, hoping that there is going to be a better day, a brighter day. I hope that everyone can see that, our children are American, right? Our children, they deserve to have their fathers and their mothers. They deserve to grow with these parents. And with that being said, the most important thing to me is they're not just bystanders. They're literally the future of America. I don't want them growing up with trauma, with trying to ask me questions like, well mom, if we're refugees and we helped, Americans as allies, and we come to this country, why is this payback like this? There's a moral obligation that has to be there and they're gonna grow up and they're gonna be trauma by this. I've got children right now that's been talking about joining the National Guard. It speaks volume about what happens to my husband. He's championed the Hmong, Michigan Special Gorilla unit, the Hmong veterans here in the last two years, really with helping them through resolutions, tributes, making sure that they have things, that they are out there, that people now know them, they are finally recognized. This puts my husband at great danger by sending him back, because now he's championed the veterans here. He celebrates our veterans here. So it's a moral obligation. And I hope Tika, I hope that, and this is to every child, I hope that every child, they deserve their father's presence. There are many people who don't even have their father's presence and they wish their fathers were around. And our fathers wanna be around. And I hope that our daughter, I only have one daughter too, that someday they can, their fathers can be a part of their, the American culture. So I, I hope that. We get that opportunity and I hope that somebody stop being scared, but turn around and help us. Help us. We came here legally, minor stuff, long decade old. Even lose share with me. This detainment has been worse than when he was, when he did time back in 1997. And I just hope that somebody hears our podcast, Miko. Thank you. And, Aisa and Tika. And they turn and they have some compassion and help us because this is the tone that we're setting for the future of our American children. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for sharing. Tika, you wanna add? Tika Basnet: Yes, I really wanna talk about what kind of husband Mohan is. Even though like he detained for five month and I cannot. I put lot of money in his account and there was one guy, I think his family cannot support him. And for me, like it is really hard. I'm not working. But even my husband called me like, you don't need to put like money in my account, but can you please can you please put money in his account? He did not eat food. His family did not have money. I can survive without eating food. But, I think his story is really touching me. And that time, like my husband was crying listening to that guy story in detention center and then I did put like $50 in his account. And my husband is giving person like, he love to give even though, he struggle a lot, even though, he doesn't know what will happen when he get deport. But, him saying other guy story. Does make him cry. I think this is the reason that I really wanna come forward. My husband is giving person, he's lovely person, he's caring person. And that is the reason I wanna come forward. I want people to hear our voice, rather than silent. Because right now people know our story. But if I was silent back , then I don't know whether my husband was already disappear. I don't know whether he gonna die torture or maybe he will expel within 24 hours. I have no idea. So I think, my husband is number one support system for me, and I think because of him that I'm here sharing his story and yeah, like for years I had wonderful time with him. We build our dream and until 2025, our dream is destroy. I'm trying to build again. I'm hoping, like my husband is coming home soon and I'm hoping that this will be the last time that he will get detained. I hope that this will be the end. I don't want him to get detained or deported again. I'm really tired. I don't know what to do. I'm hopeless. I hope listening to my story and Anna's story that separating family is not good. Like it is affecting not only one person but his whole community, whole family. We deserve to get our husband back. Because it is not only about the wife that is fighting for husband, it is the children. , They're so small, they born here and we cannot raise alone, we cannot work. We have things to pay. And paying those bills and taking care of child alone is really difficult. It is giving depression like it's been five month, like I went through postpartum depression, I went through trauma and I don't wanna deal anymore. Like I don't have courage to do this anymore. We need our husband back. Miko Lee: Thank you. And I think both of your husbands are also main caregivers for parents that are ailing in both cases. It's a really important thing that we are intergenerational communities and as you both said, it's not just about the children, but it's also about parents and brothers and sisters and community members as well. Thank you so much for lifting up your stories. I just wanna go back for one more thing. We talked briefly about the crazy expensive lawyer fees that have come up for families that they've been dealing with this, and then also Tika was just bringing up about detention and commissary fees. Can you talk a little bit about the prison industrial complex and the fees that are associated? As Anne was saying, just calling Lou every day the costs that are associated with those things. Many people that don't have a family member that's incarcerated don't know about that. Can you share a little bit about what that system is? Aisa Villarosa: Yeah, absolutely Miko. And, just to underscore, a big theme from this conversation, it is that the US made commitments and they have broken them, both with, as Anne talked about, the refugee experience is one that is made possible through US commitment of acknowledging what, people have survived, what they have given to the country. And to look at this moment where folks are being removed to countries where not only do they have zero ties to, don't speak the language, but, especially in the case of the Bhutanese refugee community, as Tika mentioned, it is [00:52:00] truly a double expulsion. So the fact that we have well-documented testimonials of folks really deported from Bhutan after they're removed there into these life-threatening conditions that in some cases have actually resulted in a community member passing away. A community member passed away in large part because of the failure of the US to both care for them while in detention. So going back to that prison complex, but also just putting them in such a harrowing situation. In another instance, a community member was found after wandering for over a hundred miles on foot. So this is not, deportation and the story ends. This is deportation. And, there is a family that is grieving and thinking through next steps, there is, this call to not have borders, break us the way that this country is trying to do. And to say a little bit about the fees, USCIS, there, there has not been a point yet in history where so many changes and charges hurting families have been ushered in, But for this year, and so to give a couple examples of that – asylum cases for one, these often take many, many years through this administration. Now, families have to pay a cost yearly for each year that your asylum application, languishes because we're also seeing that those same folks who are supposed to process these applications are either being laid off or they're being militarized. So something like USCIS where this was where one would go to apply for a passport. Now the same department is literally being handed guns and they're now taking folks during naturalization interviews. Other avenues to challenge your removal. Like I mentioned a motion to reopen. All these things used to be fairly affordable. Now they can cost many thousands of dollars on top of the attorney fees. So something that's been quite challenging for groups like Asian Law Caucus where we do have attorneys representing folks in removal proceedings, there's often this misperception that oh it's costing so much money. Attorneys are pocketing cash. And unfortunately there are some situations where some attorneys have been known to take advantage of families in this desperate moment. But for many, many attorneys who are in this mix, they're experts at this work. They're trying to do the right thing. They're both overwhelmed and they're seeing these new charges, which make the battle really even more difficult. So to turn it back to the listeners, I would say that as powerless as this moment can make us feel everyone is bearing witness. Hopefully the listeners today can take in Anne's story, can take in Tikas story and whatever power one has in their corner of the world, this is the moment to use that. Whether it's your voice, whether it's learning more about a community, maybe you're learning about for the first time. This is really the moment to take action. Miko Lee: Thank you Aisa. I really wanna thank you all for being here with me today, for sharing your personal stories, your personal pain, and for recognizing that this is happening. We deeply believe that we need to keep our families together. That is really important. It is written into the very basis of this American country about redemption and forgiveness. And this is what we're talking about for incidents that happened, misunderstandings that happened when these folks were young men, that they have paid for their, they have paid for their time, and yet they're being punished again, these promises that were broken by this American government, and we need to find [00:56:00] ways to address that. I really wanna deeply thank each of you for continuing to be there for sharing your voice, for protecting one another, for being there and standing up for your family and for our community. Thank you for joining me today. Check out our Apex Express Show notes to find out about how you can get involved. Learn about the Rising Voices campaign for Lou Young and Mohan Khaki's GoFundMe and please help to support these organizations working every day to support detained and deported people. Asian Law Caucus, Asian Refugees, United Balo Project in Vietnam. Collective Freedom in Vietnam and Laos Asian Prisoner Support Committee and new light Wellness in Cambodia. November 1st and second people nationwide are joining the Disappeared in America Weekend of Action to Stand Up for Immigrant Families and Defend Due Process. Actions include protests at Home [00:57:00] Depots, candlelight, freedom Vigils, and Day of the Dead events, honoring lives lost to detention. The following day on November 3rd, 4:00 PM Pacific Time, 7:00 PM Eastern Time. Join us for We Belong here, Bhutanese and Hmong Americans in the Struggle Against Statelessness, a live virtual event featuring my three guests tonight, along with performances and conversations. Find out more in our show notes. Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program, apex Express to find out more about our show. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. APEX Express is a collective of activists that includes Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Have a great night. The post APEX Express – 10.16.25 – We Belong Here appeared first on KPFA.

This week's Parsing Immigration Policy podcast examines the Trump administration's initiative to temporarily detail military lawyers -- Judge Advocates General (JAGs) -- to serve as temporary immigration judges, with the first group beginning training this week.Host Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, is joined by Andrew Arthur, the Center's fellow in law and policy and a former immigration judge, to discuss the legal, practical, and political implications of the move.Key points include:The U.S. immigration court system currently has about 650 permanent judges; the addition of 100 JAGs as temporary judges could significantly expand capacity, with the administration aiming to add hundreds more.The Department of Justice has had mechanisms since 2014 to appoint temporary immigration judges.Most JAGs lack immigration law experience, but Arthur notes that immigration courts often focus on determinations of removability and eligibility for relief -- areas where experienced litigators can adapt quickly.New judges receive a week of formal training and two weeks of supervised hearings, similar to what Arthur himself received.The episode also addresses the multiple due process safeguards, the backlog impact, and whether the move raises concerns under the Posse Comitatus Act.In his closing commentary, Krikorian discusses the government shutdown and the debate over healthcare for illegal immigrants, referencing a recent CIS blog post by Jason Richwine, “Of Course Illegal Immigrants Access Public Health Benefits”. He notes that the budget dispute is real but distracts from a broader truth: Illegal immigrants access public health programs through multiple channels, benefits that will continue regardless of how the shutdown is resolved.HostMark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies.GuestAndrew Arthur is a Fellow in Law and Policy at the Center for Immigration Studies.RelatedPentagon to Send 600 Lawyers to Serve as Temporary Immigration JudgesOf Course Illegal Immigrants Access Public Health BenefitsIntro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

This week's episode of Parsing Immigration Policy features Katie Lam, Conservative Member of Parliament for Weald of Kent and a Shadow Home Office Minister, who brings a British perspective on the pressing issue of immigration.Since 1974, the UK's immigration system has been marked by broken promises to the voters and rising numbers – despite repeated pledges to reduce migration. Net migration has averaged 100,000+ annually since 1977, peaking at more than 900,000 in 2023, creating profound economic, cultural, and practical challenges.In a conversation with Mark Krikorian, the Center's Executive Director, Lam argues that both legal and illegal migration must be tackled head-on:Legal MigrationCurrent system brings in too many people and is insufficiently selective.Health & Social Care visa was projected to bring in 6,000 entrants – but saw 600,000 arrivals, many not working in the sector.Consequence: artificially low wages, huge costs to taxpayers in part due to long-term settlement rights that provide welfare, housing, and full healthcare.Solution: cut and cap numbers, set clear criteria.Illegal MigrationOver 30,000 illegal Channel crossings so far this year – the 2025 number will be a record high.Criminal gangs drive the crossings, costing taxpayers 52,000 pounds per person annually – before even receiving asylum – in housing, food, clothing, and spending money.Lam supports the Rwanda plan – a third-country asylum model to deter unlawful entry.She also raises concerns about judicial overreach, international treaties, and the erosion of parliamentary authority in controlling borders. Lam makes the case for a reformed Conservative Party to deliver consistent, specific, and enforceable immigration policies – restoring trust with voters and winning in the future election.In today's commentary, Mark Krikorian notes the role that taxpayer-funded healthcare for illegal aliens plays in the current government shutdown debate and observes that the only major immigration function that stops during a shutdown is E-Verify.HostMark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies.GuestKatie Lamm is the Conservative Member of Parliament for Weald of Kent and a Shadow Home Office Minister.Intro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

It's Hispanic Heritage Month, so let's recognize their leaders, and raise a glass to the founder of the United Farm Workers. If you're thinking Cesar Chavez, you're a little less than half right.

The latest episode of the Parsing Immigration Policy podcast features the audio of a recent sit-down between Executive Director Mark Krikorian and Michael Banks, Chief of the U.S. Border Patrol. During an in-depth discussion, Chief Banks touched on the current state of border security, including apprehension numbers, maritime illegal immigration, northern border challenges, gotaways, recruitment efforts, the role of the National Guard, and more.Appointed to lead the agency earlier this year, Banks is a former Border Patrol agent with more than 30 years of federal law enforcement and border security experience. His tenure comes at a critical time, as heightened immigration policy debates dominate the national conversation.HostMark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies.GuestMichael Banks is the Chief of the U.S. Border Patrol.RelatedPanel Press ReleasePanel VideoC-Span CoverageCIS Live StreamPanel TranscriptIntro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

Rebecca A. Wheeler Walston, J.D., Master of Arts in CounselingEmail: asolidfoundationcoaching@gmail.comPhone:  +1.5104686137Website: Rebuildingmyfoundation.comI have been doing story work for nearly a decade. I earned a Master of Arts in Counseling from Reformed Theological Seminary and trained in story work at The Allender Center at The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology. I have served as a story facilitator and trainer at both The Allender Center and the Art of Living Counseling Center. I currently see clients for one-on-one story coaching and work as a speaker and facilitator with Hope & Anchor, an initiative of The Impact Movement, Inc., bringing the power of story work to college students.By all accounts, I should not be the person that I am today. I should not have survived the difficulties and the struggles that I have faced. At best, I should be beaten down by life‘s struggles, perhaps bitter. I should have given in and given up long ago. But I was invited to do the good work of (re)building a solid foundation. More than once in my life, I have witnessed God send someone my way at just the right moment to help me understand my own story, and to find the strength to step away from the seemingly inevitable ending of living life in defeat. More than once I have been invited and challenged to find the resilience that lies within me to overcome the difficult moment. To trust in the goodness and the power of a kind gesture. What follows is a snapshot of a pivotal invitation to trust the kindness of another in my own story. May it invite you to receive to the pivotal invitation of kindness in your own story. Listen with me… Rebecca (01:12):Say, oh, this is for black women, and then what? Because I quoted a couple of black people that count. I don't want to do that. And also I'm still trying to process. When you run a group like that for, and it's not embedded in something like a story workshop or a larger kind of thing, the balance of how do you give people the information and still leave room to process all of that. I'm still trying to figure out what does it look like? What does it feel like? What does it sound like? And I won't be able to figure, it's not like I can figure it out before the group and you know what I mean? You just have to roll with it. So yeah,Danielle (02:01):All those things. That's so hard, man. Man, dude, that's so hard. It's so hard to categorize it. Even What's the right time of day to hold this? What are the right words to say to tell people, this is how you can show up. And even when you say all those things and you think you've created some clarity or safety or space, they still show up in their own way, of course. And they may not have read your email. They may have signed all this stuff and it may not be what they want. Or maybe it changes and it becomes something even more beautiful. I don't know. That's how I've experienced it.Rebecca (02:39):It's all those things, and I think, and this is what I want to do, this is taking this work into a community and a space that is never going to show up in Seattle for all a thousand reasons. And soDanielle (02:56):Thousands of dollar reasons,Rebecca (02:58):Right? Thousands of dollar reasons. And so this is what I want to do. And so the million dollar question, how do you actually do that with some integrity? How do you do it in a way that actually, I don't even know if I could say I know that I want it to produce a particular result is just when I started doing this on my own, I had a lot of people reach out to me and go like, this is amazing. This is a brilliant, this is something I've been looking for without knowing that's what I've been looking for. Do you know what I mean? I think that that's true, sort of that evangelical refugee space. That's true right now. I think it's appealing on those levels. I think for people who would not necessarily go to therapy for the hundred of reasons why that's an uncomfortable thing. Culturally, this feels like it has a little more oxygen in the room,Danielle  (04:20):And I'll turn my screen off. I'll make the call and then yeah, then I want to hear a little bit about your business, more about your group, and I, I'd love to just, I want to focus this whole season on what is reality in the realm of faith, culture, life therapy, religion, if you're in a religion versus a faith. Yeah. Just those what is our reality? Because I think even as you talk about group, it's like what is the reality for that group of people for accessing care? So that's the overall season theme.Speaker 2 (05:00):Okay.Speaker 1 (05:02):How does that sound for you?Speaker 2 (05:03):That sounds great.Speaker 1 (05:04):Yeah. I know you have a lot of thoughts,Speaker 2 (05:07):But we do good bouncing off each other's thoughts. Me and you were good.Speaker 1 (05:13):So tell me how you started your own business.Speaker 2 (05:16):That's a good question. There's probably a long answer and a short answer. The long one is that I went and got a master's in marriage and family from a seminary 20 plus years ago, and by the time I finished my degree, I chose to go back to being a full-time attorney. And there's a story there, as there always is, that has to do with me almost being kicked out of theSpeaker 3 (05:55):ProgramSpeaker 2 (05:56):Because someone lodged a complaint against me as a person. The stated reason behind the claim was that my disability was a distraction to clients,(06:09):And I was absolutely undone and totally shredded, all just completely undone by the entire ordeal experience, all of it. It just really undid me in a way that I don't know if I could have put the pieces together then, but I think that played a huge part in me going, I'm going to go back to my original career, which was being an attorney, and I will put this down and I don't know. And so it's 20 plus years later, I still have that whatever was the inclination inside of me that made me say, this work is the kind of work I want to do is still there. And so I think this time around I felt empowered, I felt supported. I felt like I had people and community around me, people like you and lots of people that was like, I can actually do this, and I don't necessarily need the permission of an institution or the rubber stamp of another person to actually take what I have learned about living life and offer it to someone else. So I find myself now the owner and practitioner of solid foundation story Coaching, and we're going to see where the Lord leads and we're going to see where we end up.Speaker 1 (07:38):Okay. When in any moment, I might have to hop off here, you said nine 10 to nine 15, but what do you imagine then for your first offerings? I know you jumped in a little bit at the beginning and we kind of touched on it, but what are your first, what's your desire? What are you trying to offer?Speaker 2 (08:00):That's a good confusion too. I think a couple of things. I come from a very conservative evangelical Christian background that is also, there's these parallel roots in my background that are rooted in the black church. And every once in a while I can feel my evangelical why and what and why, and what I think the short answer is just care. You asked me what do you want to offer? And that I think my answer is care for a lot of reasons. When I look at my own story and my own life and my own path, there are lots of ways and places where I can identify. I didn't have the care that I needed. I didn't have the support that I needed to get where I wanted to go, sort of maybe unscathed, maybe in the shortest path possible with the least amount of obstacles as a woman, as a person of color, as a black American woman in the church, in as a person with a disability, all kinds of ways in which there were places in ways that I needed care that I didn't get. And even with all that being said, once, twice, maybe three times the exact right care at the exact right moment from the person who was capable and willing to give it, and it only takes one person at just the right time to offer just a few minutes of care and what is impossible becomes possible,(10:01):And what is too painful to breathe through becomes something that you can now face head on. So I think in some way, maybe it's paying forward what those people who offered me care gave to me, and now it's my chance to give it back.Rebecca (10:37):Right? Yeah. I mean, if I were going to go for the obvious, the things that we are most comfortable talking about at this moment in our country's history, to women who have faced misogyny in its most simplistic and its most complex and twisted ways to black folks and all that we have faced and struggled through to people of color. There are all kinds of ways in which out of my own story, there are corners that I recognize. And what do I mean by that, right? I have lived my life as an African-American woman, and so there are corners in life that I have come to recognize. That moment when you recognize that somehow this moment, which should be simple and just human has become racialized, and you catch it by a glance, a look, a silence that lasts too long, and you go like, oh, I know exactly where I am.(11:53):I may not know the person in front of me, but I know people like them, and this experience begins to feel familiar, and I know what this corner looks like, and I know what it sounds like, and I know where the dip in the sidewalk is, and I know where there's this pothole that if you step in it the wrong way, you're going to twist your ankle. I know exactly how long you have to cross the street before that flashing red hand comes up. The ways in which, because you've been here before because you've struggled in a familiar moment, you know what it looks like and sounds like and feels like,(12:33):And because it is familiar, then perhaps you can offer something of wisdom or kindness to someone who's new to that corner who doesn't quite know how to navigate it. So I can say that about being black, about being a woman. There are all kinds of things in my own story that have made these corners familiar to me. So yes to all of those things, all of those kinds of people, that there's something I have in common with the parallels of their story that I can say, Hey, I know this corner and I have a flashlight and I can shine my light in front of your path so you can take another step.Danielle (13:17):How do you feel in your body as you say that?Rebecca (13:22):I feel good. It feels like me. You say, how do you feel in your body? Why would you ask that question? What do we mean by that? Which is part of this work, which is being able to recognize when I'm comfortable in my own skin and when I'm not, and being able to recognize why that might be true in any given moment. And so this part feels good to me. It feels like steps I was trying to take 20 years ago that got hijacked and sidetracked by what happened to me in grad school. And it feels like work that I was meant to do because of the corners that I know. So I feel good. I can breathe deep.Danielle (14:12):How do you know when you feel good? What tells you you're feeling goodRebecca (14:16):For me? That I can take a full deep breath. I have come to recognize that shallow breathing means I am not comfortable, so I can take a deep breath and it doesn't feel restricted to me that that's probably, for me, the most notable thing is to say that. And because I am not doing a lot of self editing, I feel okay saying what I have say. I don't have a lot of self-talk of like, Ooh, don't say that or don't say that. Yeah,Danielle (14:57):Which feels like something you can give your participants. I think I mentioned to you, I really wanted to hear about what you're up to business, but it really feels to me like a special kind of work in this season. And I know I mentioned, I was like, well, what's the reality of this season? Could you speak about the intersection of your work and what you see as the reality of our current climate?Rebecca (15:29):So when you first said that to me, my first reaction is go like, oh, I know what my reality is as a black woman, as a mother of two kids, as somebody that lives a mile from where the first enslaved Africans set foot on us soil. I have a very clear sense of my reality, but I'm also going like, and I'm sitting across from you, Danielle, who I know in this moment is living a very different reality as a Latino woman. And so the one thing, or sort of the second thought that comes to my mind after my first reaction, I know what my reality is, is something that I learned recently. I did a webinar and I moderated a panel, and one of the individuals on the panel is a Latino pastor. I'll call him Pastor Carlos. And one of the things that he said to me is that if my truth in any given moment is crafted at the expense of another human, my truth cannot be the absolute truth.Yeah. Now I'm paraphrasing a little bit. So Pastor Carlos, if you hear this, and please forgive me for the paraphrase, but what settled in me from his remarks is that if my truth in any given moment comes at the expense of another person, my truth cannot stand as the absolute truth. And he went on to say something of truth must always be defined in the context of community that we cannot discern what is reality, if you will, in a given moment without having that discussion and framing those contours in the context of community and connectedness to other people. So I could tell you my truth as a black American woman in 2025, and I already know, I know my sense of what is true in my world is going to look and sound and feel different than what is true for you in this moment. Right?Danielle (18:03):Talking about reality, I feel that even despite our different truths, you and I find ourselves touching ground like physical ground, touching energy, spirituality in the same way, not thinking the same. I don't mean that, but living in a space where you and I can connect and affirm one another's actual experiences in the world, actual day to day. I can tell you about a neighbor, you could tell me about work or one of your kids, and there's a sense that you haven't lived that exact, you're not with me in my house, I'm not with your kid in their school, but there's a sense that we can touch into a reality. We're in the ground somewhere together. So I'm wondering, what do you think makes that possible for us to share that space?Rebecca (18:57):I mean, it might be I part the willingness to share, and I don't mean, well, maybe I mean that in both senses of the word, the willingness to be shared in terms of vulnerable, I'm willing to tell you. And so when you ask me, Hey, how are you? When I say, Hey, Danielle, what's up with you? It's more than just the flippant, oh, I'm good. I'm cool. Right? It is this intentional move to slow down for 60 seconds or 60 minutes and go like, here's really happening with me.(19:38):And the other sort of piece of that, when I say the word share, I mean the willingness for there to be a little wiggle room in what I understand to be true. And that's not to say that I will take your truth and replace it with mine and obliterate my experience, not suggesting that I'm saying that my truth and your truth are going to butt up against each other and in the place where they touch, what do we do with that friction? Does that friction become a point of contention, a point of disagreement, a point of anger, of judgment where I villainize you and demonize you and other you? Or does that place where my truth and your truth rub up against each other? Does that become a place of learning? Does that become a place of flexibility of saying like, huh, I never thought about it the way you thought about it. Say more. And my experience between you and I is that there has been a willingness for years to go. What do you know about the world that I don't know? What do you see that I don't see? And how does your perspective actually alter if even just a little bit what I believe or know to be true of the world?Danielle (21:04):Yes, I agree with you. I think we find ourselves in a time though where the sharing of our reality feels unique, where groups, even groups, we would call them bipoc or black, indigenous people of color. You even see skirmishes between groups. And so I think it's laid in one with so much fear. Number two, with so much hypervigilance. And again, I'm not saying none of those things aren't warranted, but I think a group like yours or therapy or somatic work hopefully opens us up to be able to see the humanity of another person.That make sense or what do you thinking when I sayRebecca (21:49):No, it does. When you were talking about in this moment, it feels unique for groups to kind of share their experience. It caused me to kind of think about why is that right? And I don't think that's an accident. I don't think it is a coincidence. I think that there are powers that are crafting these sort of larger narratives that suggest that we have to be at odds with each other, that there isn't a way for us to see each other and recognize one another's humanity without there being this catastrophic threat to my own humanity. And I think part of why it feels so unique in this moment is because I think we're having to do some pretty significant work to fight against that larger narrative that would suggest that we can't be friends, that we must be enemies.Danielle(22:49):Yeah. What do you feel as you say that? I mean, when you say that I feel like I want to cry, I want to be angry, I want to be choked up, and those are all familiar for me. They're familiar for me.Rebecca (23:08):Well, mostly I feel a kind of loss. And what do I mean by that? I saw this clip on Instagram recently where it's a family. They're probably white, Caucasian American family sitting down to dinner at a table, the table's full of food,(23:33):And there's a bowl of strawberries on the table, which in my house during this time of year, there's forever. There's always strawberries in my house anyway. And so somebody says the blessing over the food, dear God, thank you for the food and the hands that prepared it, this sort of common blessing that is also an everyday occurrence at my house. Literally the words, God bless the food and the hands that prepared it. And then it cuts, the video cuts from the scene of this family, it tucked away safely in their kitchen to a migrant worker in a strawberry field who is being pursued by ice agents. And he says, you're welcome very much for the strawberries. And then the video ends that makes me want to cry, and it makes me think of you. And because that's not a thought I ever thought about when my kids pray, thank you for the hands that prepared it. The thought that went through my mind is like they're praying for me as the mom who cooked the food, who washed the strawberries and sliced them and put them in a bowl and set them on the table, never occurred to me until I saw that video I about the person who picked the strawberries and placed them in the container that found its way to my grocery store that found its way to my kitchen table.(25:08):And so now I wonder, what else do I not know? What else have I missed my entire life? What else did I not catch? And what does that mean for this moment in history when there are literally ice checkpoints in the city where I live?Danielle (25:39):I think to survive this moment and what I hear from my people, we have to take ourselves out of the reality of the moment somehow. You still had to get up and you had to make yourself some scrambled eggs. You have to eat your strawberry, you get to eat your strawberry. We're both at work today, et cetera. And whenever we touch into that other space, we have to let the energy process through us or we won't make it. And I think that process allows us to share a reality, the movement of energy allowing it. It's not like we can live in that state all the time, but I think there's certain segments of the population that don't allow anything in. They can't because otherwise it would contradict their view of faith or what's happened.Rebecca (26:31):Yes. Which I think is why I would do something like offer a group a story group, because it is the opportunity to intentionally take a few minutes to create the space to allow that to process through us.Danielle (26:49):So how do people then, Rebecca, find you? They're enjoying this conversation. I want to hear more from her. I,Rebecca (27:01):So I have a website. It's called Rebuilding my foundation.com. I have Instagram solid foundation Coach is my Instagram site. So two me an email, check out the website, join a group,Danielle (27:26):Join a group. What about people like, Hey, I want to hang out with Danielle and Rebecca. What does that look like? Oh,Rebecca (27:35):Yeah. I mean, we're good for at least once a year doing something together. So it sounds like maybe we need to pull a conversation together, maybe a group together, maybe like a two hour seminar workshop space, which we did last year. We did one with a few other of our friends and colleagues called Defiant Resilience. Again, to create this space where people could process what was happening in this moment in history with people who are safe ish, right? We can't ever really promise safety, but we create some sense of parameters that allow you to take a step or two.Danielle (28:25):Rebecca, what do you say to that person? I get these calls all the time. Well, I can't go to therapy. It's too much money. Or I don't know about group. I don't trust people. If people get stuck, what is one way you even got yourself unstuck to even start?Rebecca  (28:40):Oh, yeah, true. First thing I'd say is if group sounds too risky and not going to lie, you and I both know it's risky.(28:55):You're taking some risk. So if that feels too big of a step, guess what? You get to be where you are. And then I'd say try it one-on-one session. Try it once, see how it feels. It is definitely something that I do. I know it's something you do too, where before you would recommend even that somebody step into a group that you might meet with them 2, 3, 4 times one-on-one once or twice to kind of see, this is what it would feel like to talk to another person about things that we have been taught you're not supposed to talk about. And slowly give a person the opportunity to decide for themselves what good care.You're allowed to say, this doesn't feel like good care to me, so I'm not going to do it today or tomorrow. And how amazing it can be to have somebody go, I love that you advocated for yourself, and I absolutely intend to respect that boundary because for so many of us, we either were taught not to set boundaries or when they were set, we have the common experience of them just being obliterated on a regular basis. So even that opportunity to reach out once, try and decide it's not for you, can actually be a moment of empowerment.Danielle (30:25):Yeah, I guess I think when I'm stuck, it's usually like we call some of those sticky points, like trauma points even. So I wouldn't say it doesn't always have to be major, some huge event, but I think there's often been, for me, there's a fear of getting help, whether it's a medical doctor or a therapist or a group or whatever it may be. Or if I have to call the county for something, I'm like, are they going to listen me? Are they going to believe me in all these kinds of situations and will they care what I have to say?Rebecca (30:58):Yeah. I think too, when you say fear of getting help, I go like, oh yeah, ding, ding. Right? I mean, some of that, at least for me, the narrative that can be around black women is that we have it all together at all times. We got it under control. And so the notion that I wouldn't have it under control all by myself, like 24 hours a day, seven days a week, the notion that I would have to request that someone else step in and assist means admitting something about myself that I don't feel comfortable admitting that I've been taught is not where I'm allowed to live. And so that also I think can be part of this fear. I don't know if that's true for you. Tell me how does that land?Danielle (31:49):Yeah, absolutely true. But it goes across so many realms where sometimes advocating for yourself, whether it's getting a question answered at a shoe store, to buying paint, to getting, I don't know, going to the er, the common themes I had my gallbladder recently removed, and two nurses told me that if I had been a man, I would've been seen faster. Because men, they believe men more about abdominal pain, and I think it's because there's maybe more expression by men of what pain is. And I don't know this for sure. I don't have a scientific research behind it, but part of me wondered, is it because my pain was indicated by my blood pressure, not by me telling them that's how they knew it. So I think that's one reason we have to really pay attention to our bodies, and I think wherever we are, we're not used to being believed, or even if someone knows, if they care, again, whether it's from going to pay a parking ticket, so going to the doctor, I just think across the board, people that are female are generally not as welcome to express how they're feeling and what's going on. Just some thoughts.Rebecca (33:11):Yeah. Again, right. It is that part where there's this larger story at play that impacts how we move individually and what we feel like we're permitted to do or not do, say or not say. You and I have talked about this before, that question of will they believe me is a kind of anticipatory intelligenceYou're trying to anticipate how you will be received, how your words will be believed, how your story will be read in any given context, and who has time, your gallbladder. And so I would imagine you're in this excruciating pain and you're having to not only tend to that, but are you going to believe me? Right? And what if the blood pressure indicator had not been there, right?Danielle (34:07):Yeah. Yeah. All of us are different. Okay. Rebecca, I'm going to put all your info in the notes. People are going to light up your phone. They're going to light up your email, and I do believe we'll be doing something collaborative in the future. Absolutely. Yeah. With other co-conspirators.Thank you for joining us today. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for listening to the raw conversations we're having, and I just encourage you to get in conversations with your friends, your family, people around you, people you really disagree with, maybe even people you don't like. Try to hold yourself there. Try to have those conversations. Try to be able to receive the difficult comments. Try to be able to say the difficult things. Let's keep working on moving towards one another.   Kitsap County & Washington State Crisis and Mental Health ResourcesIf you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.Kitsap County / Local ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call LinePhone: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach TeamEmergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS)Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now”Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the PeninsulasPhone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-ResourcesLocal crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap CountyWebsite: https://namikitsap.org/Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.Statewide & National Crisis ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988)Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line1‑866‑789‑1511Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesHelp for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line877‑500‑9276Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis LifelineDial 988 then press 4Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesCulturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.Additional Helpful Tools & Tips• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

The latest episode of the Parsing Immigration Policy podcast features the audio of a recent sit-down between Executive Director Mark Krikorian and Joseph Edlow, the newly confirmed Director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS). In a wide-ranging discussion, Edlow laid out his priorities for the agency — from strengthening fraud detection to reforming visa programs and restoring integrity to the naturalization process.On expanding investigative capacity, Edlow said:"When you're adjudicating a green card or a naturalization, that's a law enforcement action...But this is not a police force. What we are looking at incorporating into USCIS is an investigative agency…to really do a deep dive into immigration fraud, national security issues, and other criminality within the agency's jurisdiction."Other highlights include:H-1B visas: “If properly monitored and scrutinized for integrity, H-1B can be a useful tool. But my big concern is the way it keeps U.S. citizens out of the job market, especially recent STEM graduates.”Vetting standards: “We want to know everything about these individuals… Anti-American activities at a certain level are not going to be tolerated.”Naturalization: “Frankly, this test is just too easy. We need to make it more thought-provoking to ensure new citizens have a real attachment to the Constitution.”Temporary Protected Status: “For the first time in a very long time we are not seeing pro-forma renewals...We are looking at all cases and the reasons for the designations, and making a determination based both on whether those conditions still apply … and looking at, again, the foreign policy considerations.”Edlow also addressed:Decades of “profligate” work permit issuance to people whose status doesn't include work authorization and the end of automatic Social Security number approvals.Parole and DACA, calling DACA a “real legal problem” likely requiring congressional resolution.Legislative priorities, including eliminating the Diversity Visa lottery and fixing visa allocations.Expanding Systematic Alien Verification Enterprise (SAVE) access for states to verify voter eligibility, which he called potentially “a gamechanger.”Renewed denaturalization efforts and stronger fraud detection across USCIS.Host Mark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies.GuestJoseph Edlow is the Director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.RelatedPanel Press ReleasePanel VideoC-Span CoverageCIS Live StreamPanel TranscriptIntro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

Nearly 90 black-and-white images by David Bacon honor the history and resilience of California farmworkers, on display through December 14 at UC Davis.

Reality and Faith Prompts1. What are the formations or structures for how you know you are in reality in regards to your faith? Do you have indicators? Internal senses? External resources? 2. Who are you in active dialogue with in regards to your faith? Who that is living and who that is passed on? 3. When you encounter dissonance with your reality of faith, how do you stay grounded in your experience?TranscriptsDanielle (00:00):To my computer. So thank you Starlet. Thank you Tamis for being with me. I've given already full introductions. I've recorded those separately. So the theme of the conversation and kind of what we're getting into on this podcast this season is I had this vision for talking about the themes have been race, faith, culture, church in the past on my podcast. But what I really think the question is, where is our reality and where are our touchpoints in those different realms? And so today there's going to be more info on this in the future, but where do we find reality and how do we form our reality when we integrate faith? So one of the questions I was asking Tamis and Starlet was what are the formations or structures for how you know are in reality in regards to your faith? Do you have indicators? Do you have internal senses? Do you have external resources? And so that's where I want to jump off from and it's free flow. I don't do a whole lot of editing, but yeah, just curious where your mind goes when you hear that, what comes to mind and we'll jump from there.Starlette (01:12):I immediately thought of baptism, baptismal waters. My baptismal identity forms and shapes me. It keeps me in touch with my body. It keeps me from being disembodied. Also, it keeps me from being swindled out of authority over my body due to the dangerous irrationalism of white body supremacy. So that's one thing. Protest also keeps me grounded. I have found that acts of defiance, minor personal rebellions, they do well for me. They keep me spiritually that I feel like it keeps me in step with Jesus. And I always feel like I'm catching up that I'm almost stepping on his feet. So for me, baptismal identity and protesting, those are the two things come to me immediately.Tamice (02:04):Whoa, that's so deep. Wow, I never thought about that. But I never thought about protests being a thing that groundsBecause I mean I've just been, for me I would say I've been working on the right so, and y'all know me, so I got acronyms for days. But I mean I think that the radical ethical spirituality that's tethered to my tradition, that's a rule of life, but it's also a litmus test. So for me, if you can't tell the truth, we don't have conversations about non-violence and loving enemies. I don't get to ethical spirituality unless you come through the front door of truth telling and truth telling in that sense of the r. And the rest arrest mix tape is radical. Angela Davis says radical and that's grasping stuff at the root. So before we have conversations about forgiveness for instance, or Jesus or scripture or what is right and what is moral, it's very important that we first tell the truth about the foundations of those realities and what we even mean by those terms and whose those terms serve and where they come from. I talk about it asking to see the manager. We need see the manager(03:24):Me that grounds me is now if something comes in and it calls me to move in a different way or corrects me or checks me in a certain way, I say yes to it if it comes through the door of truth telling because it means I also got to be true and tell the truth to myself. So that keeps me grounded. That kind of acronym is kind of how I move, but it's also how I keep toxic ways of doing religion out. And I also have come back into relationship with trees and grass and the waters and that's been really powerful for moving down into different types of intelligence. For me, the earth has been pulling me into a different way of knowing and being in that part brings me to ancestors. Just like you starlet my ancestors, I keep finding them in the trees and in the water and in the wind. So it's like, well I need them real bad right now. So that's where I'm kind of grounding myself these days.But to your point about grounding and protest, I feel most compelled to show up in spaces where the ground is crying out screaming. I feel like it beckons me there. And we talked about the most recent news of Trey being found and you talked about truth telling and what resonated immediately. And it didn't sit right with me that African-American people, people of African descent know not to take their lives in that way because of the traumatic history that when you say things like you don't suspect any foul play, it sounds like what has historically been named as at the hands of persons unknown where that no one is held responsible for the death of African-American people. That's what ties it in for me. And I feel like it's an ancestral pool that they didn't leave this way, they didn't leave in the way that they were supposed to, that something stinks and that they're crying out to say, can you hear me? Come over here Terry a while here. Don't leave him here. Don't let up on it because we didn't call him here somebody. So I love that you said that you are, feel yourself being grounded in and call back to the earth because I do feel like it speaks to us,But there are telltale signs in it and that the trees will tell us too. And so I didn't have a hand in this. It was forced on me and I saw it all come and talk to me. Put your hand here, put your head here and you can hear me scream and then you can hear me scream, you can hear him scream. He was calling out the whole time. That's what I believe in. That's how I test reality. I tested against what the earth is saying like you said, but I think we have to walk the ground a bit. We have to pace the ground a bit. We can't just go off of what people are saying. Back to your point about truth telling, don't trust nobody I don't trust. I don't trust anybody that's going to stop because you can't fix a lie. So if you're going to come in with deception, there's not much else I can do with you. There's not much I can say to you. And I find that white body supremacy is a supreme deception. So if we can't start there in a conversation, there's nothing that I can say to youTamice (06:46):That's facts. It's interesting that you talked about baptism, you talked about grounding and I had this story pop up and while you were talking again it popped up again. So I'm going to tell it. So we are not going to talk about who and all the things that happened recently, but I had made some comments online around that and around just the choice to be blind. So I've been talking a lot about John nine and this passage where it is very clear to everyone else what's happening, but the people who refuse to see, refuse to see.So in that, I was kind of pulled into that. I was in Mississippi, I was doing some stuff for the book and this lady, a chaplain, her name is Sally Bevin, actually Sally Bevel, she walked up to me, she kept calling me, she was like, Tam me, she want to come. I have my whole family there. We were at the Mississippi Book Fair and she kept saying, Tam me, she want to come join, dah, dah, dah. Then my family walked off and they started to peruse and then she asked me again and I was like, no, I'm good. And I was screaming. I mean I'm looking in the screen and the third time she did it, it pulled me out and I was like, this woman is trying to pull me into being present. And she said to me, this is funny, starlet. I said, I feel like I need to be washed and I need a baptism because this phone feels like so on right now and the wickedness is pulling me. So she poured, she got some ice, cold water, it was 95 degrees, poured cold water on my hands, had me wash my hands and she took the cold water. She put a cross on my forehead. And you know what she said to me? She said, remember your baptism?She said, remember your baptism? And when I was baptized, even though it was by a man who will not also be named, when I was baptized the wind, there was a whirlwind at my baptism. It was in 2004, that same wind hit in Mississippi and then I felt like I was supposed to take my shoes off. So I walked around the Mississippi Festival with no shoes on, not knowing that the earth was about to receive two people who did not deserve to be hung from trees. And there's something very, I feel real talk, I feel afraid for white supremacy right now in the name of my ancestors and I feel like I'm calling on everything right now. And that's also grounding me.Starlette (09:36):I was with Mother Moses last week. I went to Dorchester County just to be with her because the people were here. Take me. I said, I'll leave them all here. I know you said there are a few here, but give me the names, give me the last names of the people because I don't have time for this. I see why she left people. I see why she was packing. So to your point, I think it's important that we talk to the ancestors faithfully, religiously. We sit down at their feet and listen for a bit about how they got over and how they got through it and let them bear witness to us. And she does it for me every time, every single time she grounds, she grounds meDanielle (10:23):Listening to you all. I was like, oh wait. It is like Luke 19 where Jesus is coming in on the show and he didn't ride in on the fanciest plane on a donkey. And if you're familiar with that culture that is not the most elevated animal, not the elevated animal to ride, it's not the elevated animal. You don't eat it. Not saying that it isn't eaten at times, but it's not right. So he rides in on that and then people are saying glory to God in the highest and they're praising him and the Pharisees are like, don't do that because it's shameful and I don't remember the exact words, but he's basically be quiet. The rocks are going to tell the story of what happened here. He's walking his way. It kind of reminds me to me. So what you're saying, he's walking away, he's going to walk and he's going to walk that way and he's going to walk to his death. He's walking it in two scenarios that Jesus goes in to talk about. Your eyes are going to be blind to peace, to the real way to peace. It's going to be a wall put around you and you're going to miss out. People are going to destroy you because you missed your chance.Starlette (11:50):Point again creation. And if you're going to be a rock headed people, then I'll recruit this rock choir. They get ready to rock out on you. If there's nothing you're going to say. So even then he says that creation will bear witness against you. You ain't got to do it. You ain't got to do it. I can call these rock. You can be rock headed if you want to. You can be stony hearted if you want to. I can recruit choir members from the ground,Tamice (12:16):But not even that because y'all know I'm into the quantum and metaphysics. Not even that they actually do speak of course, like words are frequencies. So when you hold a certain type of element in your hand, that thing has a frequency to it. That's alright that they said whatever, I don't need it from you. Everything else is tapped into this.Starlette (12:39):Right. In fact, it's the rocks are tapped into a reality. The same reality that me and this donkey and these people throwing stuff at my feet are tapped into.You are not tapped into reality. And so that's why he makes the left and not the right because typically when a person is coming to Saka city, they head towards the temple. He went the other direction because he is like it was a big fuck. I don't use power like this. And actually what I'm about to do is raise you on power. This is a whole different type of power. And that's what I feel like our ancestors, the realities that the alternative intelligence in the world you're talking about ai, the alternative intelligence in the world is what gives me every bit of confidence to look this beast in the face and call it what it is. This isTamice (13:52):And not going to bow to it. And I will go down proclaiming it what it is. I will not call wickedness good.And Jesus said, Jesus was so when he talks about the kingdom of heaven suffering violence and the violence taken it by force, it's that it's like there's something so much more violent about being right and righteous. Y'all have to use violence because you can't tell the truth.Danielle (14:29):Do you see the split two? There's two entirely different realities happening. Two different kingdoms, two entirely different ways of living in this era and they're using quote J, but it's not the same person. It can't be, you cannot mix white Jesus and brown Jesus. They don't go together. TheyStarlette (15:00):Don't, what is it? Michael O. Emerson and Glenn e Bracy. The second they have this new book called The Religion of Whiteness, and they talk about the fact that European Americans who are racialized as white Tahi says those who believe they are white. He says that there's a group of people, the European Americans who are racialized as white, who turn to scripture to enforce their supremacy. And then there's another group of people who turn to scripture to support and affirm our sibling.It is two different kingdoms. It's funny, it came to me the other day because we talk about, I've talked about how for whiteness, the perception of goodness is more important than the possession of it.You know what I mean? So mostly what they do is seek to be absolved. Right? So it's just, and usually with the being absolved means I'm less bad than that, so make that thing more bad than me and it's a really terrible way to live a life, but it is how whiteness functions, and I'm thinking about this in the context of all that is happening in the world because it's like you cannot be good and racist period. And that's as clear as you cannot love God and mammon you will end up hating one and loving the other. You cannot love God. You cannotStarlette (16:29):Love God and hate your next of kin your sibling. Dr. Angela Parker says something really important During the Wild Goose Festival, she asked the participants there predominantly European American people, those racialized as white. She said, do you all Terry, do you Terry, do you wait for the Holy Spirit? Do you sit with yourself and wait for God to move? And it talked, it spoke to me about power dynamic. Do you feel like God is doing the moving and you wait for the spirit to anoint you, to fill you, to inspire you, to baptize you with fire? You Terry, do you wait a while or do you just the other end of that that she doesn't say, do you just get up? I gave my life to Jesus and it's done right handed fellowship, give me my certificate and walk out the door. You have to sit with yourself and I don't know what your tradition is.I was raised Pentecostal holiness and I had to tear all night long. I was on my knees calling on the name of Jesus and I swear that Baba couldn't hear me. Which octave do you want me to go in? I lost my voice. You know them people, them mothers circled me with a sheet and told me I didn't get it that night that I had to come back the next day after I sweat out my down, I sweat out my press. Okay. I pressed my way trying to get to that man and they told me he didn't hear me. He not coming to get you today. I don't hear a change. They were looking for an evidence of tongues. They didn't hear an evidence, a change speech. You still sound the way that you did when you came in here. And I think that white body supremacy, that's where the problem lies with me. There's no difference. I don't hear a change in speech. You're still talking to people as if you can look down your nose with them. You have not been submerged in the water. You did not go down in the water. White supremacy, white body supremacy has not been drowned out.Terry, you need to Terry A. Little while longer. I'll let you know when you've gotten free. When you've been lifted, there's a cloud of witnesses. Those mothers rubbing your back, snapping your back and saying, call on him. Call him like you want him. Call him like you need him and they'll tell you when they see evidence, they'll let you, you know when you've been tied up, tangled up. That's what we would say. Wrapped up in Jesus and I had to come back a second night and call on the Lord and then they waited a while. They looked, they said, don't touch her, leave her alone. He got her now, leave her alone. But there was an affirmation, there was a process. You couldn't just get up there and confess these ABCs and salvation, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Why do you think they'll let you know when you got it?Danielle (18:56):Why do you think that happened? Why? I have a question for You'all. Why do you think that became the reality of the prayer in that moment? And we're talking about Africans that have been brought here and enslaved. Why do you think that happened on our soil that way? Why question?Tamice (19:12):I mean I'm wondering about it because when stylists talk and I keep thinking the Terry in and of itself is a refusal. It says what I see is not real. What's in front of me is not right. I'm going to wait for something else.I'm saying, the slave Bible, them taking stuff out of the Bible and it's like, but I feel like the ground, there was something about the ground that indigenous people, that indigenous people were able to help them tap into over here. It was waiting on that.Starlette (19:49):We didn't have punishment. We had a percussion session. So they ring shouted me. I didn't know what it was at the time. We didn't have all the fancy stuff. Everybody had put me in key. We didn't have, we had this and feet them people circled around me. We don't do that no more.Danielle (20:06):We don't do that no more. But don't you think if you're a person that is, and I believe Africans came here with faith already. Oh yes, there's evidence of that. So put that aside, but don't you think then even if you have that faith and it's not so different than our time and you're confronted with slave owners and plantation owners also preaching quote the same faith that you're going to have to test it out on your neighbor when they're getting saved. You're going to have to make sure they didn't catch that bug.Don't you think there's something in there? Block it. Don't you think if you know faith internally already like we do and run into someone that's white that's preaching the same thing, we have to wait it out with them. Don't you think our ancestors knew that when they were here they were waiting it out. I just noticed my spirit match that spirit. We have to wait it out. Yes, because and let's say they didn't know Jesus. Some people didn't know Jesus and they met Jesus here for whatever reason, and your example is still the white man. You have to wait it out to make sure you're not reflecting that evilness. I mean that's what I'm thinking. That's it's the absolutelyStarlette (21:20):Truth. There's a book titled Slave Testimony, and I know this because I just read about it. There's a testimony of an enslaved African-American, he's unnamed. It was written on June 26th, 1821. He's talking to Master John. He said, I want permission to speak to you if you please. He talked about, he said, where is it? Where is it? A few words. I hope that you will not think Me too bull. Sir, I make my wants known to you because you are, I believe the oldest and most experienced that I know of. He says in the first place, I want you to tell me the reason why you always preach to the white folks and keep your back to us is because they sit up on the hill. We have no chance among them there. We must be forgotten because we are near enough. We are not near enough without getting in the edge of the swamp behind you. He was calling him to account. He said, when you sell me, do you make sure that I'm sold to a Christian or heathen?He said, we are charged with inattention because of where their position. He said it's impossible for us to pay good attention with this chance. In fact, some of us scarce think that we are preached to it all. He says, money appears to be the object. We are carried to market and sold to the highest bidder. Never once inquired whether you sold to a heathen or a Christian. If the question was put, did you sell to a Christian, what would the answer be? I can tell you, I can tell what he was, gave me my price. That's all I was interested in. So I don't want people to believe that Africans who were enslaved did not talk back, did not speak back. They took him to task. He said, everybody's not literate. There's about one in 50 people who are, and I'm one of them and I may not be able to speak very well, but this is what I want to tell you. I can tell the difference. I know that you're not preaching to me the same. I know that when you talk about salvation, you're not extending it to me.Yikes. You need to know that our people, these ancestors, not only were they having come to Jesus meetings, but they were having come to your senses, meeting with their oppressor and they wrote it down. They wrote it down. I get sick of the narratives that we are not our answer. Yes we are. Yes I am. I'm here because of them. I think they called me. I think they call me here. I think the fussing that I make, the anger that I possess this need to resist every damn thing. I think they make me do thatTamice (23:35):Indeed, I think. But I didn't get my voice until they took the MLE off, had an honor with my ancestors and they came and they told me it's time. Take that mle off, MLE off. Shoot. Why Jesus ain't tell me to take no muzzle off. I'm going to tell you that now.Danielle (23:52):That's why I mean many indigenous people said, Jesus didn't come back for me because if that guy's bringing me Jesus, then now Jesus didn't come back for me.Starlette (24:07):Come on.Make it plain. Danielle, go ahead. Go ahead. Walk heavy today. Yeah, I meanDanielle (24:17):I like this conversation. Why Jesus, why Jesus didn't come back for us, the three of us. He didn't come back for us. It didn't come back from kids. He didn't come back for my husband. Nope. And so then therefore that we're not going to find a freedom through that. No, that's no desire to be in that.Tamice (24:33):None. And that's what I mean and making it very, very plain to people like, listen, I actually don't want to be in heaven with your Jesus heaven. With your Jesus would be hell. I actually have one,Starlette (24:47):The one that they had for us, they had an N word heaven for us where they would continue to be served and they wrote it down. It's bad for people who are blio foes who like to read those testimonies. It is bad for people who like to read white body supremacy For Phil. Yeah, they had one for us. They had separate creation narratives known as polygenetic, but they also had separate alon whereby they thought that there was a white heaven and an inward heaven.I didn't even know that. Starla, I didn't even know that because they said they want to make sure their favorite slave was there to serve them. Oh yes, the delusion. People tell me that they're white. I really do push back for a reason. What do you mean by that? I disagree with all of it. What part of it do you find agreeable? The relationship of ruling that you maintain over me? The privilege. White power. Which part of it? Which part of it is good for you and for me? How does it help us maintain relationship as Christians?Danielle (25:47):I think that's the reality and the dissonance we live in. Right?Starlette (25:51):That's it. But I think there needs to be a separation.Are you a white supremacist or not?Tamice (26:03):That's what I'm saying. That's why I keep saying, listen, at this point, you can't be good and racist. Let me just say that. Oh no, you got to pickStarlette (26:12):And I need to hear itTamice (26:13):Both. Yeah. I need you to public confession of it.Starlette (26:19):Someone sent me a dm. I just want to thank you for your work and I completely agree. I quickly turned back around. I said, say it publicly. Get out of my dms. Say it publicly. Put it on your page. Don't congratulate me. Within two minutes or so. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to disturb you. You are right. Okay. Okay. Okay. Did he post anything? No. Say it publicly. Denounce them. Come out from among them.Very, very plain. As a white supremacist or na, as a kid, as children. HowDanielle (26:56):Hard is it? I think that's what made this moment so real and it's a kind of a reality. Fresher actually for everybody to be honest, because it's a reality. All certain things have been said. All manner of things have been said by people. This is just one example of many people that have said these things. Not the only person that's lived and died and said these things. And then when you say, Hey, this was said, someone's like, they didn't say that. You're like, no, some people put all their content on the internet receipts. They did it themselves. That's not true. And I went to a prayer vigil. I didn't go. I sat outside a prayer vigil this weekend and I listened in and they were praying for the resurrection like Jesus of certain people that have passed on. I kid you, I sat there in the car with a friend of mine and then my youngest daughter had come with me just to hang out. She's like, what are they praying for? I was like, they're like, they were praying for a certain person to be resurrected from the dead just like Jesus. And I was so confused. I'm so confused how we got that far, honestly. But I told my kid, I said, this is a moment of reality for you. This is a moment to know. People think like this.Starlette (28:13):Also, white bodyDanielle (28:14):Supremacy is heresy. Yes. It's not even related to the Bible. Not at all.Why I steal away. This is why even the mistranslated Bible, even the Bible that you could take,Starlette (28:33):ThisThe version Danielle started. If you wouldn't have said that, I wouldn't have said that. This is exactly why I steal away. This is exactly why I leave. Because you can't argue with people like that. Now we're resurrected. IAll I need, it's like away. This is exactly why, because I can't hear what Howard Thurman calls the sound of the genuine in that. It's just not going to happen.Danielle (29:01):Can you imagine what would've happened if we would've prayed for George Floyd to be resurrected? Listen, what would've happenedStarlette (29:08):That he called the scumbag.Danielle (29:10):Yeah, but what would've happened if we would've played for their resurrection? Adam, Adam Polito. ThatStarlette (29:19):Was foundTamice (29:19):Psychosis.Starlette (29:21):Yeah. What would've happened? See, don't push me now. I feel like I need to pack. As soon as I said fill away, it's like people keep saying, what are you going to do if gets worse? I'm going to leave my, I'll sell all this crapAbout this stuff. This booby trap of capitalism. I'll it all don't about none of it. What matters most to me is my sense of ness. And when you get to talking, I almost said talking out the side of your neck. Jesus God, today, lemme God Jesus of your neck. You just need to know that's a cultural thing. That's going to have to be reevaluated. God. It just came right on out. Oh Lord. When you start saying things that go against my sense of ness that you think that I have to defend my personhood, that you want to tell me that I don't exist as a person. I don't exist as a human. Back to your reality testament. It's time for me to leave. I'm not staying here and fighting a race war or a civil war. You mamas are just violent. It's what you've always been.Tamice (30:28):Why would I stand in the middle? Why would I stand in the middle of what I know is a confrontation with yourself?Starlette (30:36):Oh, okay. Alright. I'm going to justTamice (30:38):You all. What happened last week is it, it is a confrontation with a really disturbed self and they're trying to flip it. Oh yes. They're trying to make it. Yes. But this is like, I'm trying to tell people out here, this is beyond you, Jack, that was a prophetic witness against you because now you see that what you're fighting is the mirror. Keep me out of it. I won't fight your wars. Keep me out of it. Look, James Baldwin said, y'all have to decide and figure out why you needed a nigger in the first place.I'm not a nigger. I'm a man. But you, the white people need to figure out why you created the nigger in the first place. Fuck, this is not my problem. This is a y'all and I don't have anything invested in this. All I'm trying to do is raise my kids, man. Come on. Get out of here with that. I'm sorry.Danielle (31:48):No, you keep going and then go back to starlet. Why do you think then they made her Terry? They had to make sure she doesn't buy into that. That's my opinion.Tamice (32:00):It's funny too because I see, I mean, I wasn't Pentecostal. I feel like who's coming to mind as soon as you said that de y'all know I'm hip hop. Right? So KRS one.Starlette (32:12):Yes. Consciousness.Tamice (32:14):The mind. Oh yes, the mind, the imagination. He was, I mean from day one, trying to embed that in the youth. Like, Hey, the battlefield is the mind. Are you going to internalize this bullshit?Are you going to let them name you?Starlette (32:34):This is the word.Tamice (32:34):Are you going to let them tell you what is real for the people of God? That's That's what I'm saying, man. Hip hop, hip hop's, refusal has been refusal from day one. That's why I trust it.Because in seen it, it came from the bottom of this place. It's from the bottom of your shoe. It tells the truth about all of this. So when I listen to hip hop, I know I'm getting the truth.Starlette (32:57):Yeah. EnemyObjection. What did public enemy say? Can't trust it. Can't trust it. No, no, no, no. You got to play it back. We got to run all that back.Danielle (33:11):I just think how it's so weaponized, the dirt, the bottom of the shoe, all of that stuff. But that's where we actually, that's what got it. Our bodies hitting the road, hitting the pavement, hitting the grass, hitting the dirt. That's how we know we're in reality because we've been forced to in many ways and have a mindset that we are familiar with despite socioeconomic changes. We're familiar with that bottom place.Tamice (33:38):Yeah. I mean, bottom place is where God is at. That's what y'all don't understand. God comes from black, dark dirt, like God is coming from darkness and hiddenness and mystery. You don't love darkness. You don't love GodStarlette (33:56):Talk. Now this bottom place is not to be confused with the sunken place that some of y'all are in. I just want to be clear. I just want to be clear and I'm not coming to get you. Fall was the wrong day. TodayI think it's good though because there's so much intimidation in other communities at times. I'm not saying there's not through the lynchings, ongoing lynchings and violence too and the threats against colleges. But it's good for us to be reminded of our different cultural perspectives and hear people talk with power. Why do you think Martin Luther King and Cesar Chavez wrote letters to each other? They knew something about that and knew something about it. They knew something about it. They knew something about why it's important to maintain the bonds. Why we're different, why we're similar. They knew something about it. So I see it as a benefit and a growth in our reality. That is actually what threatens that, that relationship, that bond, that connection, that speaking life into one another. That's what threatens that kingdom that you're talking about. Yeah.You just can't fake an encounter either.When I was tear, no matter what I've decolonized and divested from and decentered, I cannot deny that experience. I know that God was present. I know that God touched me. So when mother even made sister, even made, my grandmother would call me when I was in college, first person to go to college. In our family, she would say before she asked about classes or anything else, and she really didn't know what to ask. She only had a sixth grade education. But her first question was always you yet holding on?Right. She holding on. And I said, yes ma'am. Yes ma'am. Then she would, because it didn't matter if you couldn't keep the faith. There really wasn't nothing else for her to talk to you about. She was going to get ready to evangelize and get you back because you backslid. But that was her first thing. But what I've learned since then is that I can let go.The amazing thing is that the spirit is guiding me. I didn't let go all together. You got it. You got it. If it's real, if you're real, prove it. Demonstrate it. I'm getting chills now talk to me without me saying anything, touch me. I shouldn't have to do anything. Eugene Peterson says that prayer is answering speech. In fact, the only reason why I'm praying is because you said something to me first. It's not really on me to do anything. Even with the tear. I was already touched. I was already called. The reason why I was on my knees and pleading is because I'd already been compelled. Something had had already touched me. FirstThey called Holy Spirit. The hound of heaven. Damn right was already on my heels. I was already filled before I could even refuse. I was like, I don't want this. I'm going to always be star Jonah, get your people. I prefer fish guts. Throw me overboard. I don't like these people. Certified prophet because I don't want to do it. I never want to do it. I'm not interested at all. I have no too much history. I've had to deal with too much white body supremacy and prejudice and racism to want anything to do with the church. I see it for what? It's I'll never join one. By the way, are we recording? Is it on? I'm never joining a church ever. Until you all desegregate.You desegregate. Then we can talk about your ministry of reconciliation. Until then, you don't have one. Don't talk to me about a community day or a pulpit swap. I don't want to hear it. All Your praise. What did he say? A clinging, stumble, put away from me. Your conferences, all your multiracial. I don't want to hear none of it. Desegregate that part desegregate you, hypocrites, woe unto all of you white supremacists. If nobody ever told you that's not God. It's not of God. So I don't, for me, my reality is so above me, I know that Paul, because when I don't want to say anything, somebody is in my ear. Somebody was talking to me this morning. Somebody was writing a note in my ear. I had to get up. I said, please. I'm like, now I'm not even awake all the way. Stop talking to me. You can't fake that as much as I push against the Holy Spirit. You can't fake that. I don't want to do it. I don't want to say it. I'm of saying it. And yet I get up in the morning and it's like, say this, that post that. Write that. Somebody else is doing that. That's not me.As the mothers say, my flesh is weak. My flesh is not willing at all. I want to, all of y'all can go on. I'll pack this up and move somewhere else. Let them fight it to the death. I'm not going to, this is just my flesh speaking. Forgive me. Okay. This Raceless gospel is a calling friends. It's a calling. It's a calling, which means you coming into it. I'm an itinerant prophet. I'm heavy into the Hebrew scriptures. I come up with every excuse. My throat hurts. I got a speech impediment. The people don't like me. I'm not educated. It don't work. You need to know when people come to you and say, y'all need to get together, God speaking to you, the Pendo is coming. That's not like an invitation. That's kind of like a threat whether you want it or not. You're getting together.Everybody up. There's a meal ready, there's a banquet that is set and the food is getting cold and you are the reason why the drinks are watered down. That's go. You don't hear me calling you. ComeWhat I keep hearing. You have to know that God is speaking to people and saying that there's an invitation coming and you better get right. You better get washed up. Tam me said, you better let somebody pour that water over your hands. You better get washed up and get ready for dinner. I'm calling you. Come on in this house. Come on in this house. And this house is for everybody. Martin Luther King called it the world house. Everybody's coming in and you ain't got to like it doesn't matter. Get somewhere and sit down. That's that old church mother coming out of me and lemme just confess. I didn't even want to be on here this morning. I told God I didn't feel like talking. I told the Lord and you see what happened.Promise you. I'm a child. I'm full of disobedience.I was not in the mood. I said, I don't want to talk to nobody. I'm an introvert. I don't want to deal with none of this. Get somebody else to do it and look at it.Tamice (40:39):Yeah. It's funny because I woke up this morning, I was like, I'm not, I forgot. And then after all of the news today, I was like, I just don't have it in you, but this is, wait a minute. And it was three minutes past the time. Come on. And I was like, oh, well shoot. The house is empty. Nobody's here right now. I was like, well, lemme just log on. So this is definitely, it feels like definitely our calling do feel. I feel that way. I don't have time to bullshitSo I can't get out of it. I can't go to bed. I might as well say something. It won't let me go. I cannot do deceit. I can't do it. I can't sit idly by while people lie on God. I can't do that. I can't do it. It won't let up. And I'm trying to get in my body, get in this grass and get a little space. But I'm telling you, it won't let me go. And I feel it's important, Dee, you can't stop doing what you're doing. That's right. I mean is this thing of it is beyond me. It is living out of me. It's coming through me. And there has to be a reason for this. There's got to be a reason for this. And I don't know what it is because I know my eschatology is different, but I feel like, buddy, we got to manifest this kingdom. We have to manifest it until it pushes all that shit back. Come on. I'm telling you. Till it scurries it away or renders it and null and void, I'm talking. I mean, I want the type of light and glory on my being. That wicked logic disintegrate, wicked people drop dead. I mean that just in the Bible. In the Bible where Hert falls, headlong and worms eat em. Y'all celebrate that. Why can't I think about that? It's in your scriptures or daykin and the thing breaks and the legs of this false God break. I want that. I'm here for that. I'm going after that.Danielle (43:14):You think that this is what the definition of Terry is? That we're all Terry serious. I'm rocking the whole time. I'm serious. Right. That's what I told my kids. I said, in one sense, this is a one person of many that thinks this way. So we can't devote all our conversation in our house to this man. And I said in the other sense, because Starlet was asking me before he got here, how you doing? I said, we got up and I took calls from this person and that person and I told my kids, we're still advocating and doing what we can for the neighbors that need papers. And so we're going to continue doing that. That is the right thing to do. No matter what anybody else is doing in the world, we can do this.Tamice (43:56):Yeah, that's a good call. I mean, I'm headed to, I ain't going to say where I'm going no more, but I'm headed somewhere and going to be with people who are doing some innovation, right. Thinking how do we build a different world? How do our skillsets and passions coalesce and become something other than this? So I'm excited about that. And it's like that fire, it doesn't just drive me to want to rebuke. It does drive me to want to rebuild and rethink how we do everything. And I'm willing, I mean, I know that I don't know about y'all, but I feel like this, I'm getting out of dodge, but also I'm seeking the piece of the city. I feel both. I feel like I'm not holding hands with ridiculousness and I'm not moving in foolishness. But also I'm finna seek the piece of the city. My G I'm not running from delusion. Why would I? I'm in the truth. So I don't know how that maps onto a practical life, but we're finna figure it out. Out in it. I mean, the response of leadership to what has happened is a very clear sign where we are in terms of fascism. That's a very clear sign.What else y'all are looking for To tell you what it is.Danielle (45:36):But also we're the leaders. We are, we're the leaders. They're a leader of something, but they're not the leader of us. We're the leaders. We're the leaders. So no matter what they say, no matter what hate they spew, I really love Cesar Chavez. He's like, I still go out and feed the farm worker and I don't make them get on the boycott line because if they're pushed under the dirt, then they can't see hope. So people that have more economic power, a little more privilege than the other guy, we're the leaders. We're the ones that keep showing up in love. And love is a dangerous thing for these folks. They can't understand it. They can't grasp it. It is violent for them to feel love. Bodies actually reject it. And the more we show up, you're innovating. You're speaking Starla, you're preaching. We're the leaders. They're leaders of something. They're not leaders of us. We're leaders of freedom.Tamice (46:31):Come on now. D, we're leaders of give us thisStarlette (46:34):Bomb. We're leaders of compassion. You coming in here with the Holy Ghosts, acting like one of them church mothers. We were in the room together. She put our hand on us. YouDanielle (46:43):We're the ones that can remember Trey. We're the ones that can call for justice. We don't need them to do it. They've never done it. Right. Anyway. They have never showed up for a Mexican kid. They've never showed up for a black kid. They've never done it. Right. Anyway, we're the ones that can do it now. We have access to technology. We have access to our neighbors. We can bring a meal to a friend. We can give dollars to someone that needs gas. We're the the one doing it. We're the one that doing itTamice (47:11):Fill usDanielle (47:12):Up. They cannot take away our love.Starlette (47:15):Receive the benediction.Danielle: Yeah. They can't take it away. I'm telling you, if I saw someone shooting someone I hate, I would try to save that person. I don't own guns. I don't believe in guns, period. My family, that's my personal family's belief.And I would do that. I've thought about it many times. I thought would I do it? And I think I would because I actually believe that. I believe that people should not be shot dead. I believe that for the white kid. I believe that for the Mexican kid. I believe that for the black kid, we're the people that can show up. They're not going to come out here. They're inviting us to different kind of war. We're not in that war. That's right. We have love on our side and you cannot defeat love, kill love. You can'tTamice (48:04):Kill love and you can't kill life. That's the only reason somebody would ask you to be nonviolent. That's the only way somebody would've the audacity to ask that of you. Especially if you're oppressed. If the true is truth is that you can't kill love or life, damn man. It's hard out here for a pimp.Starlette (48:38):Really. Really? Yeah. Because what I really want to say isTamice (49:27):I can't. Your testimony a lie. No. Your testimony. That would be a lie. And like I said, truth telling is important. But there are days where I could be that I could go there, but I witnessed what happened that day. I watched the video. It's just not normal to watch that happen to anybody. And I don't care who you are. And the fact that we're there is just objectively just wow. And the fact that all of the spin and do y'all not realize what just happened? Just as a actual event. Right. What? You know, I'm saying how has this turned into diatribes? Right? We need reform. I, whichDanielle (50:29):Which, okay, so I have to cut us off. I have a client coming, but I want to hear from you, given all the nuance and complexity, how are you going to take care of your body this week or even just today? It doesn't have to be genius. Just one or two things you're going to do. Oh, I'm going toTamice (50:51):Take a nap. Yeah, you taking a nap? Y'all be so proud of me. I literally just said no to five things. I was like, I'm not coming to this. I'm not doing that. I won't be at this. I'm grieving. I'm go sit in the grass. Yeah, that's what I'm doing today. And I have stuff coming up. I'm like, Nope, I'm not available.Starlette (51:14):What about you Danielle? What are you going to do?Danielle (51:16):I'm going to eat scrambled eggs with no salt. I love that. I've grown my liver back so I have to have no salt. But I do love scrambled eggs. Scrambled eggs. That's the truth. Four. Four scrambled eggs.Starlette (51:31):And we thank you for your truth. BIO:The Reverend Dr. Starlette Thomas is a poet, practical theologian, and itinerant prophet for a coming undivided “kin-dom.” She is the director of The Raceless Gospel Initiative, named for her work and witness and an associate editor at Good Faith Media. Starlette regularly writes on the sociopolitical construct of race and its longstanding membership in the North American church. Her writings have been featured in Sojourners, Red Letter Christians, Free Black Thought, Word & Way, Plough, Baptist News Global and Nurturing Faith Journal among others. She is a frequent guest on podcasts and has her own. The Raceless Gospel podcast takes her listeners to a virtual church service where she and her guests tackle that taboo trinity— race, religion, and politics. Starlette is also an activist who bears witness against police brutality and most recently the cultural erasure of the Black Lives Matter Plaza in Washington, D.C. It was erected in memory of the 2020 protests that brought the world together through this shared declaration of somebodiness after the gruesome murder of George Perry Floyd, Jr. Her act of resistance caught the attention of the Associated Press. An image of her reclaiming the rubble went viral and in May, she was featured in a CNN article.Starlette has spoken before the World Council of Churches North America and the United Methodist Church's Council of Bishops on the color- coded caste system of race and its abolition. She has also authored and presented papers to the members of the Baptist World Alliance in Zurich, Switzerland and Nassau, Bahamas to this end. She has cast a vision for the future of religion at the National Museum of African American History and Culture's “Forward Conference: Religions Envisioning Change.” Her paper was titled “Press Forward: A Raceless Gospel for Ex- Colored People Who Have Lost Faith in White Supremacy.” She has lectured at The Queen's Foundation in Birmingham, U.K. on a baptismal pedagogy for antiracist theological education, leadership and ministries. Starlette's research interests have been supported by the Louisville Institute and the Lilly Foundation. Examining the work of the Reverend Dr. Clarence Jordan, whose farm turned “demonstration plot” in Americus, Georgia refused to agree to the social arrangements of segregation because of his Christian convictions, Starlette now takes this dirt to the church. Her thesis is titled, “Afraid of Koinonia: How life on this farm reveals the fear of Christian community.” A full circle moment, she was recently invited to write the introduction to Jordan's newest collection of writings, The Inconvenient Gospel: A Southern Prophet Tackles War, Wealth, Race and Religion.Starlette is a member of the Christian Community Development Association, the Peace & Justice Studies Association, and the Koinonia Advisory Council. A womanist in ministry, she has served as a pastor as well as a denominational leader. An unrepentant academician and bibliophile, Starlette holds degrees from Buffalo State College, Colgate Rochester Crozer Divinity School and Wesley Theological Seminary. Last year, she was awarded an honorary doctorate in Sacred Theology for her work and witness as a public theologian from Wayland Baptist Theological Seminary. She is the author of "Take Me to the Water": The Raceless Gospel as Baptismal Pedagogy for a Desegregated Church and a contributing author of the book Faith Forward: A Dialogue on Children, Youth & a New Kind of Christianity. Dr. Tamice Spencer - HelmsGod is not a weapon.  Authenticity is not a phase.Meet  Tamice Spencer-Helms (they/she). Tamice is a nonprofit leader, scholar-practitioner, pastor, and theoactivist based in Richmond, Virginia. For decades, Tamice has been guided by a singular purpose: to confront and heal what they call “diseased imagination”—the spiritual and social dis-ease that stifles agency, creativity, and collective flourishing. As a pastor for spiritual fugitives,  Tamice grounds their work at the intersection of social transformation, soulful leadership, womanist and queer liberation theologies, and cultural critique.A recognized voice in theoactivism, Tamice's work bridges the intellectual and the embodied, infusing rigorous scholarship with lived experience and spiritual practice. They hold two master's degrees (theology and leadership) and a doctorate in Social Transformation. Their frameworks, such as R.E.S.T. Mixtape and Soulful Leadership, which are research and evidence-based interventions that invite others into courageous truth-telling, radical belonging, and the kind of liberating leadership our times demand.​Whether facilitating retreats, speaking from the stage, consulting for organizations, or curating digital sanctuaries, Tamice's presence is both refuge and revolution. Their commitment is to help individuals and communities heal, reimagine, and build spaces where every person is seen, known, and liberated—where diseased imagination gives way to new possibilities. Kitsap County & Washington State Crisis and Mental Health ResourcesIf you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.Kitsap County / Local ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call LinePhone: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach TeamEmergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS)Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now”Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the PeninsulasPhone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-ResourcesLocal crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap CountyWebsite: https://namikitsap.org/Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.Statewide & National Crisis ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988)Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line1‑866‑789‑1511Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesHelp for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line877‑500‑9276Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis LifelineDial 988 then press 4Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesCulturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.Additional Helpful Tools & Tips• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

In conversation at the 2025 Forbes Power Women's Summit Dolores Huerta speaks with Forbes Women Senior Editor Maggie McGrath.Dolores Huerta has been a relentless force for change for over half a century. As a co-founder of the United Farm Workers with Cesar Chavez, she was instrumental in organizing the Delano grape strike and gave the movement its iconic rallying cry, "Sí, se puede." Her activism evolved to champion feminist causes, and today, through the Dolores Huerta Foundation, she remains a powerful voice in Democratic politics, supporting immigration reform, LGBTQ rights, and the nation's most vulnerable communities.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Arise Podcast – Edited TranscriptSpeaker 1 (00:29):Welcome to the Rise Podcast. As part of this process, we're going to talk about what reality is—how to find it, and how to ground yourself in it. I'll have some regular co-hosts with me, as I mentioned earlier, and we'll continue to explore faith, gender, race, sex, the church—all in the context of discovering reality.Today is September 10, 2025. As I pushed to get this episode out, plans shifted and things got canceled. I was busy with the kids, checking the news, scrolling Instagram, running errands, picking up sandwiches—just an ordinary day. Then I saw the headline: Charlie Kirk had been shot.Interestingly, Charlie Kirk and I disagree on almost everything, but I've occasionally listened to his podcast. I also listen to the Midas Touch podcast and others across the spectrum to understand what people are thinking and believing.(01:47)I ask myself: what reality am I living in, and whose voices am I letting in? When I have the capacity, I listen to people like Charlie Kirk, sometimes tune in to Fox News, check X/Twitter, or look at Truth Social—just to gauge different perspectives.I live on Squamish land—land of cedar and clear salt water—here in Poulsbo, Washington. Kitsap County is an interesting rural mix. We're near Seattle, often labeled “ultra-liberal,” but that doesn't exempt us from racism, elitism, or entrenched power structures. And our rural neighbors may identify as fiscally or socially conservative. You might meet someone who voted very differently from you—someone who will happily bring you cookies, or someone who might actually despise you.(02:48)This mix, I think, is closer to reality than living in silos. We may choose echo chambers for news, but we still rub shoulders at coffee shops, restaurants, gyms, and schools with people who think differently.I keep asking: how do we find a shared space to even talk? How do we locate common reality?Back in 2020, when George Floyd was murdered, I saw deep fractures emerge. I was just starting therapy groups on race and whiteness. Our diverse group gathered to talk about racism at a time when the country seemed ready for those conversations.(04:54)But quickly I noticed what I call splitting—fracturing when someone said something others couldn't accept or even register in their bodies. It sometimes caused silence or confusion, and often led to sharp, even violent words meant to wound. And often the person speaking didn't realize the harm.This fascinated me as a therapist. From a psychological perspective, I began to wonder: which part of ourselves shows up in everyday interactions? At a store, maybe just a polite hello. With a friend, maybe a brief check-in that still doesn't touch the day's deeper feelings.(07:07)Sometimes those layers of relationship reveal unspoken emotions—feelings inside that remain hidden. Healthy boundaries are normal, but there's no guarantee that with those we love we suddenly share every vulnerable part of ourselves.Now add politics, faith, love, gender, culture: more layers. Many of these parts trace back to childhood—traumas, arguments, experiences at school or with caregivers.(08:15)So when I see splitting—what some call polarization, black-and-white or binary thinking, or even “boundaries as weapons”—I see people wrestling with what it means to be a neighbor and to engage someone who thinks radically differently.I feel the temptation myself to label everything all good or all bad. Children need that kind of distinction to learn what's safe and unsafe, but adults must grow beyond it. Two things can be true at the same time: you hurt me, and I still love you and will show up. Yet our world increasingly tells us that can't be true.(11:05)This pressure to split is intense—internally, from media, from social circles, from family. Sometimes I want to run away into the woods, start a farm, keep my kids home, just stay safe. Today, after news of a school shooting and Charlie Kirk's murder, that desire feels even stronger.There are days I simply cannot engage with people who think differently. Other days, I have more capacity.So where is reality? For me, it's grounding in faith—literally planting my feet on the earth, hugging a tree, touching grass.(13:30)I ask: who is God? Who is Jesus? And who have I been told God and Jesus are? I grew up in a rigid evangelical structure—shaped by purity culture and fear of punishment. I remember hearing, “If God calls you and you don't act, He'll move on and you'll be left behind.” Even now, at 47, that idea haunts me.When I meet people from that tradition, I feel the urge to split—making my perspective all right and theirs all wrong. I have to remind myself of their humanity and of God's love for them.Earlier this year, I chose to resist those splits. I called people where relationships felt scratchy or unresolved, inviting conversation. Not everyone responded, but the practice helped loosen old binds.(16:55)I also keep listening to multiple viewpoints. I never “followed” Charlie Kirk, but I'd check his posts and sometimes feel genuine tenderness when he shared about his family. That's part of loving your enemies—remembering their humanity, even when you feel anger or rage.I grew up surrounded by conservative media. I even remember the early days of Fox News. As a teen reading Time magazine, I once told my parents that Michael Dukakis's policies aligned more with my faith than his opponent's. Over time I drifted toward trickle-down economics, but that early instinct still stands out.(21:22)All of us are socialized into certain beliefs. I went from conservative evangelical spaces to a conservative liberal-arts college. People warned I might “lose my faith,” yet those history classes deepened it. Today many claim that consuming certain media will “distort your reality.” Political violence is rising. I listen to both progressive and conservative podcasts to understand different lives. Yet when I cite something I've heard, I'm often told it's “AI-generated” or “fake,” even when it's a direct quote. Liberals do this too, around issues like Palestine, policing, or healthcare.(24:47)It's painful to be around people who think differently. The question is: how do we converse without devolving into hate or shouting?Today is September 11. Between Charlie Kirk's assassination, yesterday's school shooting, and attempted political killings, it's clear our nation is split into competing realities that shape everything—from how we see safety to how we practice faith and empathy.This podcast is about examining those realities and how we process them.(26:44)Sometimes we retreat inward to cope with trauma—what psychology might call dissociation or a psychic retreat. I understand the instinct to step back for safety.Maybe these divisions always existed, and I just see them more clearly now while raising my children. That responsibility feels heavy.(29:12)I often turn to elders and their words—Cesar Chavez, Dolores Huerta, Martin Luther King Jr.'s “Letter from Birmingham Jail.” They remind me others have endured violence and hatred and still held onto hope and faith.I fight for that same hope now.(30:04)To ground ourselves we can:- Connect with the earth: literally touch the ground, trees, water.- Stay in community: share meals, exchange help, build fences together.- Nourish faith: draw on spiritual wisdom.- Cherish family: use loved ones as emotional barometers.- Engage work and service: notice how they shape and sustain us.- Face issues of race and justice: ask if we contribute to harm or to healing.Your grounding pillars may differ, but these guide me.(32:40)I invite you to this journey. You may agree or disagree—that's okay. We need space to coexist when it feels like only one side can survive.Violence won't change hearts. Bullets cannot replace ballots. Money cannot buy joy or transformation. Only sustained dialogue and care can.(34:05)I'll share some quotes from Dolores Huerta and Cesar Chavez in the show notes. Please stay curious and seek the mental-health support you need. Don't be alone in your grief or fear. If you feel triggered or overwhelmed, reach out—to a therapist, pastor, trusted friend, or crisis helpline.A special guest and new co-host will join me next week. I look forward to continuing the conversation.   Crisis Resources:Kitsap County & Washington State Crisis and Mental Health ResourcesIf you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.Kitsap County / Local ResourcesResource Contact Info What They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call Line Phone: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/ 24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach Team Emergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/ Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS) Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/ Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now” Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx 24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the Peninsulas Phone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-Resources Local crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap County Website: https://namikitsap.org/ Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.Statewide & National Crisis ResourcesResource Contact Info What They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988) Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/ Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line 1‑866‑789‑1511Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resources Help for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line 877‑500‑9276Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/ Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis Lifeline Dial 988 then press 4Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resources Culturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.Additional Helpful Tools & Tips• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately.  Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

Florida has become a national leader in immigration enforcement, and this week's episode of Parsing Immigration Policy features an in-depth conversation with Florida Attorney General James Uthmeier on the state's high-profile role.Attorney General Uthmeier discusses Florida's measures to enforce immigration law, protect public safety, and collaborate with federal agencies. Highlights include:Detention Capacity: Florida has three times the immigration detention capacity as the next state, with additional space opening.A repurposed facility recently opened, Deportation Depot.Florida is actively challenging the lawsuit aimed at blocking detention at Alligator Alcatraz. (Host Mark Krikorian follows up after the pre-recorded interview with an update on the state's recent victory in court.)Law Enforcement Authority: Florida is the first state with all officers certified under Section 287(g), empowering them to assist ICE.Public Safety Threats: From illegal alien truck drivers involved in deadly accidents to child predator stings, the AG underscores the risks of unchecked illegal immigration and shares Florida's responses.Maritime Enforcement: With between 12,000 and 15,000 interdictions in state waters, Florida deploys the National Guard, troopers, and local law enforcement to stop illegal arrivals before they reach shore.Illegal Presence in Florida Is a State Offense: State law prohibits an illegal alien from entering the state; the law is being challenged.No Sanctuary: State law prohibits sanctuary cities and empowers the state to hold jurisdictions accountable by levying civil fines and removing people from office.The episode concludes with commentary from the Center's executive director Mark Krikorian, who provides an update on litigation surrounding “Alligator Alcatraz” and the illegal alien trucker and his employer responsible for three deaths in Florida. He also highlights Jobs.now, a new website that uncovers legally required but often hidden job postings—creating a jobs clearinghouse for Americans and making it harder for employers to convert H-1B visa holders into green card applicants.Host Mark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies.GuestJames Uthmeier is the Attorney General of the State of Florida.RelatedPodcast: The Role of Immigration DetentionIntro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

It's almost Hispanic Heritage Month! So, let's continue our discussions of labor unions in the U.S., this time, led by one of the most influential Hispanic leaders in our nation's history: Cesar Chavez.

The latest episode of Parsing Immigration Policy features Elizabeth Jacobs, Director of Regulatory Affairs and Policy at the Center for Immigration Studies, discussing USCIS's updated guidance on discretion in immigration benefits.Key Points:Beyond “Not a Criminal”: New USCIS policy updates require officers to engage in a more holistic analysis of whether naturalization applicants demonstrate “good moral character,” a requirement for naturalization that has been a part of U.S. immigration law since the beginning. In addition, the agency is now asking officers to consider any anti-American, antisemetic, or terrorist activity as “overwhelmingly negative” factors when evaluating whether an applicant warrants a positive grant of discretion.Discretionary Benefits: Many immigration benefits under the INA — including asylum, national interest waivers under EB-2, and naturalization — are discretionary. Even if eligibility requirements are met, USCIS officers may deny them.Good Moral Character Assessments:Traditionally treated as a checklist; now assessed holistically.Focuses on demonstrating positive attributes and rehabilitation, not just the absence of misconduct.Negative Factors for Discretionary Denials: Officers are instructed to treat support for anti-American ideologies, antisemitism, and terrorism as “overwhelmingly negative factors” when exercising discretion on discretionary immigration benefit requests.Expanded Use of Vetting Tools:Increased use of social media screening, fraud detection, and neighborhood/personal investigations.Previous policies often waived these investigations; the update clarifies they are a standard part of discretion.Balancing Efficiency and Vetting: With millions of applications annually, USCIS must balance rigorous vetting with timely processing. The agency is shifting culture to prioritize serving the American people, not just applicants.Cultural Shift: USCIS is shifting emphasis from serving as a “service agency” to serving as a vetting agency, using the discretion granted by Congress to protect national security and uphold American values — a departure from prior policies favoring mass approvals.Immigration Newsmaker Interview: USCIS Director Joe Edlow will be featured today in an Immigration Newsmaker conversation hosted by CIS at the National Press Club. The video will be available at cis.org.Host Mark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies.GuestElizabeth Jacobs is the Director of Regulatory Affairs and Policy at the Center for Immigration Studies.RelatedUSCIS to Consider Anti-Americanism, Antisemitism, and Terrorist Activity When Adjudicating Certain Immigration Benefit RequestsCIS National Security Vetting Failures DatabaseIntro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

A new episode of the Center for Immigration Studies podcast features Director of Litigation Julie Axelrod discussing the current status of the Center's landmark National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) lawsuit, a new CIS case filed in Texas, and the recent “Alligator Alcatraz” litigation.Axelrod explains how the Trump administration is handling the remedy phase of Massachusetts Coalition for Immigration Reform v. Department of Homeland Security, where CIS successfully argued that the Biden administration violated NEPA when it dismantled border controls allowing in millions of people without doing any environmental impact analysis. NEPA, enacted in 1970, was intended to address environmental impacts of population growth – yet it has rarely been applied to immigration, despite its obvious relevance.Axelrod argues that applying NEPA consistently would protect the environment, provide transparency, and serve as an insurance policy to prevent future administrations from bypassing environmental review when expanding immigration.Highlights from the discussion with the Center's Executive Director Mark Krikorian include:CIS's Successful Lawsuit: The court found that the Biden administration had violated NEPA. The remedy phase could force DHS to conduct the environmental analysis that should have preceded both the Biden DHS's termination of the “Remain in Mexico” policy and halt in construction of the border wall, and/or could ensure that if a future administration repeats such actions, it would have to do environmental analysis, providing transparency and an opportunity for public input.Trump Administration on the Remedy: The Trump administration's immigration agenda, which largely focuses on reduction, not expansion, of immigration, would not be blocked if the administration were to embrace the idea that increases in immigration should be analyzed under NEPA prior to implementation. Such an embrace would also serve to make the Trump immigration agenda harder for a future administration to undo, as the Biden administration did to the first Trump administration's policies. Furthermore, as the Alligator Alcatraz case shows, whether the Trump administration embraces NEPA for immigration expansion or not, open-borders groups will continue challenging enforcement actions in court under NEPA.New Texas Lawsuit: A coalition of Texas plaintiffs seeks to apply NEPA to Biden-era policies, including the end of “Remain in Mexico,” expansive asylum rules, regulatory expansions to our work programs, and taxpayer-funded NGO programs.Alligator Alcatraz Case: Anti-enforcement groups are trying to use NEPA to block expansion of the Florida detention facility, highlighting a double standard – enforcement actions designed to reduce illegal immigration trigger environmental analysis, but policies that increase immigration do not (yet).Host Mark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies.GuestJulie Axelrod is the Director of Litigation at the Center for Immigration Studies.RelatedCIS Prevails in Challenge to Biden-Harris Immigration ActionsIntro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

This week's episode of the Parsing Immigration Policy podcast features a wide-ranging conversation with recently retired Border Patrol Chief Jason Owens, who served for 30 years and led the agency during the worst border crisis in history. Owens speaks with the Center's Executive Director Mark Krikorian about the evolution of the Border Patrol over its 100-year history, past lessons learned, and future challenges. Key points include:Career and History: Owens joined in 1996 as the Border Patrol was adopting national strategies like Operation Hold the Line and Operation Gatekeeper, shifting from chasing illegal crossers to preventing entry.Border Crisis Leadership: As chief, Owens navigated record flows, low morale, and shifting political directives, often focusing on “damage control” to preserve the agency's mission.Barriers and Technology: Physical barriers serve as a “force multiplier” when deployed strategically, buying agents time to detect, respond, and apprehend.Future Challenges:Smuggling potentially shifting to new routesAliens continuing to exploit loopholes, such as asylum.Need for AI and translation tools to handle migrants from a large number of diverse countries.Border Patrol Growth: Owens stresses that expansion must be gradual, maintaining high standards and adequate training to avoid weakening the force. In his closing commentary, Krikorian highlights a widely reported Center study showing a 2.2 million decline in the immigrant population, including 1.6 million illegal immigrants, in the first half of 2025. Critics argued the drop might be artificial, caused by non-response to the monthly Current Population Survey (CPS) due to fear of enforcement. But Krikorian noted response rates have been falling steadily for years, with no sharper decline under recent enforcement policies, suggesting the measured reduction is real – and that new policies have been successful in reducing illegal immigration.Host Mark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies.GuestJason Owens is former Chief of the Border Patrol.RelatedOverall Foreign-Born Population Down 2.2 Million January to JulyIs the Apparent Decline in the Immigrant Population Real?Intro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

Dolores Huerta (1930-present) is one of the most influential labor activists of the 20th century and a leader of the Chicano civil rights movement. She helped found the organization now known as United Farm Workers and helped organize the Delano grape strike in 1965. She is credited for coming up with the rallying cry “Sí, se puede,” which means “yes, we can” in Spanish. For Further Reading: Dolores Huerta, renowned American labor leader and civil rights activist who co-founded the United Farm Workers union alongside Cesar Chavez. Dolores Huerta: The Civil Rights Icon Who Showed Farmworkers 'Sí Se Puede' : The Salt : NPR Dolores Huerta’s Story: Community Organizing, the Chicano Movement and Challenging Gender Norms | Reckoning With Our Racial Past UFW Chronology This month, we’re bringing back some of our favorite Womanica episodes you might have missed! We’ll be talking about Pink Collar Workers: women who revolutionized jobs that have traditionally been called "women's work." Through their lives, they created a more just and humane world for us today. History classes can get a bad rap, and sometimes for good reason. When we were students, we couldn’t help wondering... where were all the ladies at? Why were so many incredible stories missing from the typical curriculum? Enter, Womanica. On this Wonder Media Network podcast we explore the lives of inspiring women in history you may not know about, but definitely should. Every weekday, listeners explore the trials, tragedies, and triumphs of groundbreaking women throughout history who have dramatically shaped the world around us. In each 5 minute episode, we’ll dive into the story behind one woman listeners may or may not know–but definitely should. These diverse women from across space and time are grouped into easily accessible and engaging monthly themes like Educators, Villains, Indigenous Storytellers, Activists, and many more. Womanica is hosted by WMN co-founder and award-winning journalist Jenny Kaplan. The bite-sized episodes pack painstakingly researched content into fun, entertaining, and addictive daily adventures. Womanica was created by Liz Kaplan and Jenny Kaplan, executive produced by Jenny Kaplan, and produced by Grace Lynch, Maddy Foley, Brittany Martinez, Edie Allard, Carmen Borca-Carrillo, Taylor Williamson, Sara Schleede, Paloma Moreno Jimenez, Luci Jones, Abbey Delk, Adrien Behn, Alyia Yates, Vanessa Handy, Melia Agudelo, and Joia Putnoi. Special thanks to Shira Atkins. Follow Wonder Media Network: Website Instagram Twitter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sub to the Patreon to support the show and access the entire 2nd part of PPM's subtextual analysis of Eddington as soon as it drops: patreon.com/ParaPowerMappingIn which we decode Eddington's subtextual conspiracy themes, endeavoring to argue that the new Ari Aster is perhaps the first major, theatrically released film to have accurately encapsulated the essence of the technocratic AmerIsraeli Years of Lead—in accordance with my personal timeline of the ongoing deep political era that would place its inception around Covid time—and the Silicon Valley capitalist elite's embrace of strategy of tension in the cybernetic service of of updating America's Total Info Awareness 2.0 operating system and the installation of their long planned predictive policing panopticon.We discuss: why the appearance of the globo "Antifa PMCs" isn't actually crypto-MAGA chicanery (seeing as they are Gladio operators); Joaquin Phoenix's turn as Sheriff Joe Cross, a Gen X, mumblecore, adoptive son of Sheriff Joe Arpaio type; Eddington as Nashville esque ensemble comedy cum Coen Brothers Covid Wester with the accompanying masking/social distancing standoffs; diagnosing the alienation and social media siloing of the wokespeak & QAnon brain rot of that hot 2020 summer; the role of calibrated algorithmic control; Sheriff Cross's Israeli Civil Guard pin in the OG script; the unfortunate executive production of Len Blavatnik, the Zio·nist billionaire "philanthropist" tied to Brett Ratner, Weinstein, the Bronfmans, etc, mulling whether he might have vetoed the inclusion of that visual gag on Sheriff Joe's regalia vest; the Solidgoldmagikarp Proposed Hyperscale Data Center project, the underlying Pynchon-esque real estate development and land and water use conspiracy; the schizophrenic drifter character Lodge, who opens the film, and his Homeric oracle qualities, spiritually warning against the onset of the Age of AI-quarius; Mike the One Armed Man from Twin Peaks comparisons; Pynchonian Lodge puns; Chekhov's Cough; Louise Cross, Sheriff Cross's wife, the one other farsighted character, and her haldol prescription, evoking Twin Peaks again; a demonic Mark Zuckerberg hinted at as one of the shadowy backers of the Solidgoldmagikarp Data Center in the earlier draft; Gov. Grisham making it into the film by way of an honorary watch and Covid headlines; the David Dees vibe of the cell towers in the opening sequence and various 5G diatribes; Aster lurking on Twitter; an earlier version of the second scene in which Sheriff Cross wrestles with Officer Butterfly Jimenez over who gets to investigate the self-immolation death of a paraplegic conspiracy Youtuber named Mitchell and the Native school uniforms discovered in his accessible van (evoking Missing Indigenous Children); the film's abiding interest in the neocultures that have cropped up around QAnon & pedo-hunters; borderlands and issues of jurisdiction between the Sevilla Co. Sheriff and the Santa Lupe Pueblo Tribal Officers; Cesar Chavez & Dolores Huerta's (a New Mexican) Hispanic borderlands community union LUPE aka La Union de Pueblo Entero aka The Union of the Whole People; Santa Lupe Pueblo = SLP = Speech Language Pathologist?; the neighboring, colonized tribal peoples, at their slight remove from Eddington and Treatlerite American society moreover, being the observers best prepared to pathologize the alienation and atomization and societal decay taking hold in the town over Covid; in regards Speech Language Pathologists, the ever-present theme of miscommunication and the deterioration of consensus reality caused by social media echo chamber-induced myopia, as well as the specter of LLMs or Large Language Models; "Solidgoldmagikarp" alluding to AI & ChatGPT tokens that cause anomalous or erratic behavior...FULL LINER NOTES ON THE PATREONMusic:| Matt Akers - "Necessary Rhythms" https://matthewakers.bandcamp.com/album/tough-to-kill | | Matt Akers - "Night Drive II (Detroit at 2 AM" |

How do social movements arise, wield power, and bring about meaningful change? Renowned scholar Linda Gordon investigates these and other salient questions in this “visionary, cautionary, timely, and utterly necessary book” (Nicole Eustace), narrating how some of America's most influential twentieth-century social movements transformed the nation.Beginning with the turn-of-the century settlement house movement, the book compares Chicago's celebrated Hull-House, begun by privileged women, to a much less well known African American project, Cleveland's Phillis Wheatley House, begun by a former sharecropper. Expanding her highly praised book The Second Coming of the KKK, the second chapter shows how a northern Klan became a mass movement in the 1920s. Contrary to what many Klan opponents thought, this KKK was a middle-class organization, its members primarily urban and well educated. In the 1930s, the KKK gave birth to dozens of American fascist groups—small but extremely violent. Profiles of two other 1930s movements follow: the Townsend campaign for old-age insurance, named for its charismatic leader, Dr. Francis Townsend. It created the public pressure that brought us Social Security, which was considered radical at the time, as was the movement to bring about federal unemployment aid for millions.Proceeding to the 1955–1956 Montgomery bus boycott—which jump-started the career of Martin Luther King, Jr.—the narrative shows how the city's entire Black population refused to ride segregated buses; initiated by Black women, their years-long, hard-fought victory inspired the civil rights movement. Gordon then examines the 1970s farmworkers struggle, led by Cesar Chavez and made possible by the work of tens of thousands of the primarily Mexican American farmworkers. Together they built the United Farm Workers Union, winning better wages and working conditions for some of the country's poorest workers. The book concludes with the dramatic stories of two Boston socialist feminist groups, Bread and Roses and the Combahee River Collective, which influenced the whole women's liberation movement. Linda Gordon is professor emerita of history and University Professor of the Humanities at New York University. She is the winner of two Bancroft prizes for best book in American History.  Her previous work includes The Second Coming of the KKK and a biography of the photographer Dorothea Lange. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/history

In the latest episode of the Center for Immigration Studies podcast, Executive Director Mark Krikorian speaks with Scott Mechkowski, retired Deputy Field Office Director for ICE's Enforcement and Removal Operations in New York. With experience at U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and its predecessor agency, the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), Mechkowski offers an inside view of how immigration enforcement has changed over time.From his early days as a deportation officer to leading seven Fugitive Operations Teams targeting dangerous criminal aliens, Mechkowski recounts arrests, post-9/11 operations, and the gradual breakdown of cooperation between ICE and New York City authorities under sanctuary policies. He contrasts the first Trump administration's aggressive enforcement approach — led by then-ICE Acting Director Tom Homan — with the Biden administration's politicization of the agency under DHS Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas.Mechkowski also discusses operational challenges, the role of E-Verify, detention space needs, and the realities behind having arrest targets. His reflections reveal how enforcement priorities, local politics, and national leadership shape ICE's ability to remove those who should not be in the country.Host Mark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies.GuestScott Mechkowski is a retired Deputy Field Office Director for ICE's Enforcement and Removal Operations in New YorkRelatedNational Immigration Center for EnforcementIntro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

On this week's Labor Radio Podcast Weekly: From America's Workforce Radio, we revisit the Vietnam era's “Hard Hat” protest and how labor's stance on war split the movement. Tales from the Reuther Library explores rank-and-file reform in the Steelworkers with the story of “Oil Can Eddie.” Labor Jawn takes us inside Philadelphia's once-every-40-years sanitation strikes. On Solidarity Works, the legacy of Cesar Chavez and the Delano grape strike is remembered as a call to action for today's immigrant workers. And the Labor Heritage Power Hour uncovers the radical roots of the American West in the Great Cowboy Strike of 1883. Plus, Harold Phillips spotlights “Shows You Should Know” from across the Labor Radio Podcast Network. Help us build sonic solidarity by clicking on the share button below. Highlights from labor radio and podcast shows around the country, part of the national Labor Radio Podcast Network of shows focusing on working people's issues and concerns. @AWFUnionPodcast @ReutherLibrary @labor80132 @steelworkers @LaborHeritage1#LaborRadioPod @AFLCIO Edited by Captain Swing, produced by Chris Garlock; social media guru Mr. Harold Phillips.

Luke 10:25-37Just then, a lawyer stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he said, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?” Jesus said to him, “What is written in the law? What do you read there?” He answered him, “You should love the Lord your God with all your heart, and all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” Jesus said to him, “You have given the right answer. Do this and you shall live.”But wanting to justify himself, the man asked him, “And who is my neighbor?” Jesus answered him, “A man was going down the road from Jerusalem to Jericho when he fell into the hands of robbers who beat him, stripped him, leaving him half dead. Now, by chance a priest was walking along the same road and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So likewise, a Levite, when he came to the place, saw the man and passed by on the other side.But a Samaritan, while traveling saw the man and was moved with pity. He came near to him and bandaged his wounds, having poured oil and wine on them. He put him onto his own animal and took him to an inn to take care of him. The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the inn keeper and said, ‘Take care of him and when I come back I will repay you whatever more you spend.'”Jesus said to the lawyer, “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers.” He answered him, “The one who showed him mercy.” Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.” Our questioner for this morning wasn't specific, so I'm taking some guesses and some liberty at choosing what they could have meant by “When the system falls short…” – and how a Christian might respond. By that I mean, “SYSTEM” could mean lots of things. When I think “SYSTEM,” I think POLITICAL system, JUSTICE system, HEALTHCARE system, EDUCATION system, the ECONOMY, and so on.So, maybe our question refers to the ECONOMY that allows corporate CEOs to make 300 times as much as their average employees who then have to worry about the price of eggs or milk or gas or rent. (The economic system is falling short for a lot of people these days. How does a Christian respond?)Maybe our IMMIGRATION system was on the mind of whoever asked today's question. Its shortcomings are something both sides of the political aisle actually agree about, after all. (That system and the current methods of remedy are a profound failure of human decency, respect, integrity, and moral character, if you ask me. What does a faithful Christian response look like there?)I contend that our JUSTICE system falls short every time a Black, brown, or poor person receives a harsher, longer punishment than a white or wealthy person for the same – or lesser – crime. (The justice system is shamefully, painfully failing a whole lot of people. What's a believer to do?)And the SYSTEM, writ large, falls short when it chooses to fund the resulting prison industrial complex and a raging war machine rather than provide food, healthcare, and housing for its people. (For people who worship the “Prince of Peace,” the “Healer of Every Ill,” the One who calls us to feed the sick, clothe the naked, turn the other cheek, and forgive our enemy – we have to wonder “What would Jesus do?”)The SYSTEM is falling short when hospitals, major corporations, private schools, and public schools are bullied into denying, dismantling, or defunding their diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts. (For generations of Christians who grew up singing “Red and Yellow, Black and White, they are precious in his sight” how does our faith call us to respond?)So, again … the question of the day … What do we do when the system – or any of the systems within the system – fall short? When they don't live up to our expectations or needs? When they downright fail? What's a Christian to do? What does a faithful response look like, indeed? Good question.Before you ask me, though, I'd ask Shane Claiborne. He's a faithful Christian activist who does crazy, beautiful things like turns guns into gardening tools – you've heard me talk of him before. Shane Claiborne once broke a very particular law, several years ago, in Philadelphia, which had made it illegal to feed homeless people, outdoors, in public spaces. So, in addition to pizza, he served them Holy Communion – all of which got him arrested calling attention to the broken, inhumane, unloving, mean-spirited law the courts ultimately declared unjust and unfair, thanks to his clever act of civil, faithful disobedience.And before you ask me this question, I'd look to Pastor Martin Luther King, Jr., who protested and broke the racist Jim Crow laws of the South to march, boycott, host sit-ins and to teach, preach, and promote God's Gospel of diversity, equity and inclusion – showing the world that those are not dirty words and worthless endeavors.Before you ask me this question, I'd look to Lutheran pastor and theologian, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who preached and taught and wrote about The Cost of Discipleship and was executed for fighting against the moral, ethical, evil failures of the Nazis, during World War II. I'd wonder about Cesar Chavez who fought for fair wages, safe working conditions, and decent standards of living for migrant and agricultural workers in our country. I'd remember Mother Teresa who gave up everything to care for the poorest of the poor that every system of healthcare, education, and human compassion had failed.Each of these faithful Christian people responded to the broken, failing systems they witnessed in ways that were informed and inspired by the teachings of Jesus. And each of them, surely, was informed and inspired the Good Samaritan – this outsider who saw the suffering of a stranger, recognized him as a neighbor, crossed the road, broke some rules, risked his own safety, and gave up a full measure of his time and money to help, as nothing more and nothing less than an act of compassion and mercy.In some ways, the answer to today's question is as simple as that – When the system falls short, faithful action looks like seeing everyone as your neighbor and showing them mercy, as a result.But the truth is, we like to pretend – you and I – that we don't have courage or occasion enough of the time to encounter the suffering, dying, needs of our neighbor in as dramatic a fashion as Martin Luther King, Jr., Cesar Chavez, Mother Theresa, or that Good Samaritan in Jesus' story. And maybe that's true. Maybe we don't have courage or occasion enough to respond like that.But since you asked, I'll tell you what I've done, what I try to do, and what I hope for around here – as your pastor; as your Partner in Mission; and as a wannabe follower of Jesus. Because I believe my response – and ours together in this place – to the short-falls of the systems that surround us show up in lots of ways. We have a unique calling in this community, in this political climate, at this particular time – as fellow wannabe followers of Jesus – to do something about the systemic shortfalls that threaten us and that harm our neighbors.The easiest thing I do is that I say a lot of words. I do my best to preach and teach about a God who loves all people and hope that moves us all to defend, protect, support, welcome, affirm, and love all people, too – on this side of heaven, not just the next, which is key. God's love and grace are meant to be shared with all people on this side of heaven, not just the next.Our Groceries of Grace food pantry matters because it helps mitigate the systemic shortfalls of a broken economic system by simply feeding people kindly, compassionately, generously, with dignity – and without a lot of questions or pre-requisites. And hopefully that allows them to spend the grocery money they save on other needs.Our Racial Justice Team matters because churches are one of the few institutions who haven't been bullied by the system – yet – into decrying or dropping Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion efforts, and withholding the truth about the ongoing impact of racism on our neighbors. We aren't perfect, but from what I know, Cross of Grace does that more deliberately and more faithfully than any congregation in Hancock County.I'm leading that Unclobber book study again (starting this Wednesday at 6:30 p.m.) because no other congregation in our community will do that either; and because not enough churches in our country have evolved to embrace the TRUTH about what the Bible actually says and does not say about homosexuality among God's people.I chair the board for Project Rouj, too, because Jesus tells me that my neighbor isn't just someone who lives next door or who looks and believes and behaves like I do. So I like building houses for my friends and strangers in Fondwa, Haiti.And, lastly – and not for nothing – when it comes to mitigating the impact of the broken, failing systems that surround us – my family gives our money away, because Jesus tells us to. The Havels give regular, if not monthly, financial contributions to places like Project Rouj, WFYI and NPR, and Susan G. Komen. And all of that is secondary to the more than 10% of our income that we give to the ministry at Cross of Grace, every year too.(I don't say this to brag or guilt-trip anyone. I'm just answering the question. And I admit, it's impressive and tempting to wonder about the swimming pools, nicer cars, college tuition, and second home we could have paid and saved for over the years with that money. And I pray for and dream about the day when more of you believe me when I tell you what a difference that kind of giving could make for you, your family, for the ministry we share, and for this broken world we're trying to mend.)All of this is to say that – in the face of the failing systems that surround us – Jesus calls us to follow the Good Samaritan's lead.Because let's remember – without too much despair – that whatever system you think is failing you, or someone you love, or your proverbial neighbor in some way … this is nothing new. Jesus showed up in the world precisely because the systems of this world are insufficient and unequal to the task of loving God's people in ways that God desires and asks of God's people.So God calls us to be here precisely because the system fails, is failing, and will fail again and again and again. We are called to cross the proverbial street to see and hear about the suffering of our neighbor. We are called to look long and hard and deeply at what hurts and harms them, most. We're called, too, to wonder if we have participated in that somehow.And then we are called to do something about it, as much as we are able. We find them help. We provide them resources. We take some risks. We give some money. We show mercy.And when we do, Jesus promises, we get a glimpse of eternal life, right where we live.Amen

We're taking a little time off for the summer, and while we're gone, we're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes. This week, we have a conversation with long-time labor organizer George Nee. When we talked to him in 2024, he'd just retired as the president of the Rhode Island AFL-CIO, so he could finally tell us an incredible story involving the mob and a lettuce boycott. Tips and ideas? Email us at rinews@globe.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Center for Immigration Studies has released a new podcast examining the findings of a recent report, The Foreign-Born Population at the State and Regional Level, 1850 to 2025. The report shows that the foreign-born population – defined as anyone not a U.S. citizen at birth – has reached record levels at the state and regional levels. While the Center regularly highlights national-level immigration trends, this new analysis offers a unique look at state-by-state growth and its implications on schools, wages, healthcare, and working-class Americans. Steven Camarota, lead author of the report and the Center's director of research, discusses the following findings with host Mark Krikorian:Since 1980, the foreign-born population has grown 578 percent in the South and increased 10-fold or more in four states: Georgia, North Carolina, Nevada, and Tennessee. It increased at least seven-fold in five other states: South Carolina, Arizona, Utah, Texas, and Alabama. In an additional 17 states it increased more than four-fold.The foreign-born share of the population has hit historic highs in 14 states and reached a numerical record in 31 states and D.C.From 1980 to 2025, the foreign-born population grew eight times faster than the U.S.-born population nationwide – and 20 times faster in 17 states. In today's commentary, Krikorian highlights a new E-Verify report from the Center that examines enforcement challenges. The core problem, the report notes, is not the system itself but identity theft. One key reform: Congress should require states to grant DHS access to driver's license photos to strengthen verification efforts.HostMark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies.GuestSteven Camarota is the Director of Research of the Center for Immigration Studies.RelatedThe Foreign-Born Population at the State and Regional Level, 1850 to 2025E-Verify and the Invasion of the Identity SnatchersIntro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

How do social movements arise, wield power, and bring about meaningful change? Renowned scholar Linda Gordon investigates these and other salient questions in this “visionary, cautionary, timely, and utterly necessary book” (Nicole Eustace), narrating how some of America's most influential twentieth-century social movements transformed the nation.Beginning with the turn-of-the century settlement house movement, the book compares Chicago's celebrated Hull-House, begun by privileged women, to a much less well known African American project, Cleveland's Phillis Wheatley House, begun by a former sharecropper. Expanding her highly praised book The Second Coming of the KKK, the second chapter shows how a northern Klan became a mass movement in the 1920s. Contrary to what many Klan opponents thought, this KKK was a middle-class organization, its members primarily urban and well educated. In the 1930s, the KKK gave birth to dozens of American fascist groups—small but extremely violent. Profiles of two other 1930s movements follow: the Townsend campaign for old-age insurance, named for its charismatic leader, Dr. Francis Townsend. It created the public pressure that brought us Social Security, which was considered radical at the time, as was the movement to bring about federal unemployment aid for millions.Proceeding to the 1955–1956 Montgomery bus boycott—which jump-started the career of Martin Luther King, Jr.—the narrative shows how the city's entire Black population refused to ride segregated buses; initiated by Black women, their years-long, hard-fought victory inspired the civil rights movement. Gordon then examines the 1970s farmworkers struggle, led by Cesar Chavez and made possible by the work of tens of thousands of the primarily Mexican American farmworkers. Together they built the United Farm Workers Union, winning better wages and working conditions for some of the country's poorest workers. The book concludes with the dramatic stories of two Boston socialist feminist groups, Bread and Roses and the Combahee River Collective, which influenced the whole women's liberation movement. Linda Gordon is professor emerita of history and University Professor of the Humanities at New York University. She is the winner of two Bancroft prizes for best book in American History.  Her previous work includes The Second Coming of the KKK and a biography of the photographer Dorothea Lange. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

How do social movements arise, wield power, and bring about meaningful change? Renowned scholar Linda Gordon investigates these and other salient questions in this “visionary, cautionary, timely, and utterly necessary book” (Nicole Eustace), narrating how some of America's most influential twentieth-century social movements transformed the nation.Beginning with the turn-of-the century settlement house movement, the book compares Chicago's celebrated Hull-House, begun by privileged women, to a much less well known African American project, Cleveland's Phillis Wheatley House, begun by a former sharecropper. Expanding her highly praised book The Second Coming of the KKK, the second chapter shows how a northern Klan became a mass movement in the 1920s. Contrary to what many Klan opponents thought, this KKK was a middle-class organization, its members primarily urban and well educated. In the 1930s, the KKK gave birth to dozens of American fascist groups—small but extremely violent. Profiles of two other 1930s movements follow: the Townsend campaign for old-age insurance, named for its charismatic leader, Dr. Francis Townsend. It created the public pressure that brought us Social Security, which was considered radical at the time, as was the movement to bring about federal unemployment aid for millions.Proceeding to the 1955–1956 Montgomery bus boycott—which jump-started the career of Martin Luther King, Jr.—the narrative shows how the city's entire Black population refused to ride segregated buses; initiated by Black women, their years-long, hard-fought victory inspired the civil rights movement. Gordon then examines the 1970s farmworkers struggle, led by Cesar Chavez and made possible by the work of tens of thousands of the primarily Mexican American farmworkers. Together they built the United Farm Workers Union, winning better wages and working conditions for some of the country's poorest workers. The book concludes with the dramatic stories of two Boston socialist feminist groups, Bread and Roses and the Combahee River Collective, which influenced the whole women's liberation movement. Linda Gordon is professor emerita of history and University Professor of the Humanities at New York University. She is the winner of two Bancroft prizes for best book in American History.  Her previous work includes The Second Coming of the KKK and a biography of the photographer Dorothea Lange. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/american-studies

How do social movements arise, wield power, and bring about meaningful change? Renowned scholar Linda Gordon investigates these and other salient questions in this “visionary, cautionary, timely, and utterly necessary book” (Nicole Eustace), narrating how some of America's most influential twentieth-century social movements transformed the nation.Beginning with the turn-of-the century settlement house movement, the book compares Chicago's celebrated Hull-House, begun by privileged women, to a much less well known African American project, Cleveland's Phillis Wheatley House, begun by a former sharecropper. Expanding her highly praised book The Second Coming of the KKK, the second chapter shows how a northern Klan became a mass movement in the 1920s. Contrary to what many Klan opponents thought, this KKK was a middle-class organization, its members primarily urban and well educated. In the 1930s, the KKK gave birth to dozens of American fascist groups—small but extremely violent. Profiles of two other 1930s movements follow: the Townsend campaign for old-age insurance, named for its charismatic leader, Dr. Francis Townsend. It created the public pressure that brought us Social Security, which was considered radical at the time, as was the movement to bring about federal unemployment aid for millions.Proceeding to the 1955–1956 Montgomery bus boycott—which jump-started the career of Martin Luther King, Jr.—the narrative shows how the city's entire Black population refused to ride segregated buses; initiated by Black women, their years-long, hard-fought victory inspired the civil rights movement. Gordon then examines the 1970s farmworkers struggle, led by Cesar Chavez and made possible by the work of tens of thousands of the primarily Mexican American farmworkers. Together they built the United Farm Workers Union, winning better wages and working conditions for some of the country's poorest workers. The book concludes with the dramatic stories of two Boston socialist feminist groups, Bread and Roses and the Combahee River Collective, which influenced the whole women's liberation movement. Linda Gordon is professor emerita of history and University Professor of the Humanities at New York University. She is the winner of two Bancroft prizes for best book in American History.  Her previous work includes The Second Coming of the KKK and a biography of the photographer Dorothea Lange. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/politics-and-polemics

How do social movements arise, wield power, and bring about meaningful change? Renowned scholar Linda Gordon investigates these and other salient questions in this “visionary, cautionary, timely, and utterly necessary book” (Nicole Eustace), narrating how some of America's most influential twentieth-century social movements transformed the nation.Beginning with the turn-of-the century settlement house movement, the book compares Chicago's celebrated Hull-House, begun by privileged women, to a much less well known African American project, Cleveland's Phillis Wheatley House, begun by a former sharecropper. Expanding her highly praised book The Second Coming of the KKK, the second chapter shows how a northern Klan became a mass movement in the 1920s. Contrary to what many Klan opponents thought, this KKK was a middle-class organization, its members primarily urban and well educated. In the 1930s, the KKK gave birth to dozens of American fascist groups—small but extremely violent. Profiles of two other 1930s movements follow: the Townsend campaign for old-age insurance, named for its charismatic leader, Dr. Francis Townsend. It created the public pressure that brought us Social Security, which was considered radical at the time, as was the movement to bring about federal unemployment aid for millions.Proceeding to the 1955–1956 Montgomery bus boycott—which jump-started the career of Martin Luther King, Jr.—the narrative shows how the city's entire Black population refused to ride segregated buses; initiated by Black women, their years-long, hard-fought victory inspired the civil rights movement. Gordon then examines the 1970s farmworkers struggle, led by Cesar Chavez and made possible by the work of tens of thousands of the primarily Mexican American farmworkers. Together they built the United Farm Workers Union, winning better wages and working conditions for some of the country's poorest workers. The book concludes with the dramatic stories of two Boston socialist feminist groups, Bread and Roses and the Combahee River Collective, which influenced the whole women's liberation movement. Linda Gordon is professor emerita of history and University Professor of the Humanities at New York University. She is the winner of two Bancroft prizes for best book in American History.  Her previous work includes The Second Coming of the KKK and a biography of the photographer Dorothea Lange. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Center for Immigration Studies is proud to release the latest episode of Parsing Immigration Policy, featuring the opening statements from our 2025 congressional testimony. Since January, CIS experts have testified seven times before the U.S. House and Senate, appearing before committees on Homeland Security, Oversight, and Judiciary. These opening statements reflect the breadth of CIS expertise on border enforcement, parole policy, visa integrity, NGO influence, detention operations, and more.Highlights include:Biden's Border Betrayal: Criminal Aliens in America — U.S. Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Border Security & Immigration (Andrew R. Arthur, July 22)The Fiscal Consequences of Parole During the Biden Administration — House Homeland Security Oversight Subcommittee (Steven A. Camarota, July 15)Restoring Integrity and Security to the Visa Process — House Judiciary Immigration Subcommittee (Jessica M. Vaughan, June 25)Public Funds, Private Agendas: NGOs Gone Wild — House Oversight Subcommittee on Government Efficiency (Mark Krikorian, June 4)Examining Threats to ICE Operations — House Judiciary Oversight Subcommittee (Andrew R. Arthur, May 20)Restoring Immigration Enforcement in America — House Judiciary Committee (Jessica M. Vaughan, January 22)Remain in Mexico — Senate Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs Committee (Andrew R. Arthur, January 16)HostMark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies.GuestCenter staff testimony.RelatedCenter testimony pageIntro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

On today's Labor Radio Podcast Daily: The Worker Power Hour tackles the housing crisis and wage stagnation in Southern California. In labor history, on this date in 1970, Delano grape growers signed their first union contracts with the United Farm Workers. Quote of the day: Cesar Chavez. @1932Teamsters @wpfwdc @AFLCIO #1u #UnionStrong #LaborRadioPod Proud founding member of the Labor Radio Podcast Network

The latest episode of Parsing Immigration Policy, the Center for Immigration Studies' podcast, delves into the role of immigration detention in U.S. enforcement efforts. Hosted by Mark Krikorian, the discussion features insights from Andrew Arthur, a former immigration judge and the Center's Fellow in Law and Policy, who stresses that detention is required to ensure integrity of the immigration system.Highlights:Purpose of Detention: Detention serves administrative functions, ensuring individuals appear for hearings and are available for removal if ordered.Failure to Appear: 34 percent of alien respondents in immigration court fail to appear at some point during the removal proceeding process. Respondents in detention must appear in court whether they want to or not, so the no-show rate is effectively zero, which skews the overall rate of what are termed “in absentia” cases.Legal Mandates under the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA): Detention of aliens subject to removal proceedings is mandatory under various provisions of the INA, including individuals apprehended entering illegally, criminal aliens post-incarceration, and those under final removal orders.Detention Capacity: The lack of detention space is causing a bottleneck in enforcement. The “Big Beautiful Bill” expands detention capacity. potentially increasing bed space by 80,000.Detention Standards: ICE follows the Performance-Based National Detention Standards – the gold standard of care and higher than conventional jail standards.State and Local Roles: States can assist by providing facilities, with federal reimbursement, to support detention efforts. Examples include Alligator Alcatraz in Florida and soft-sided facilities on military bases in New Jersey and Indiana.In today's commentary, Mark Krikorian, podcast host and executive director of the Center, highlights The Dignity Act, introduced by Representative Maria Elvira Salazar (R-Fla.). The bill handcuffs immigration enforcement in many ways, amnesties millions, and increases legal immigration, reminding us that the open borders, pro amnesty advocates will never stop pushing their agenda.HostMark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies.GuestAndrew Arthur is the Resident Fellow in Law and Policy at the Center for Immigration Studies.RelatedThe Role of Immigration Detention and Why It is NeededThe ‘Dignity Act': Amnesty for 12 million now plus more than five million extra immigrants over the next decadeThe Price of “Dignity”Intro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

Feminist icon Gloria Steinem was the keynote speaker at our Jubilee conference held in New York City this past April. An inspiration to millions of women around the world for her trailblazing work, writings, and protesting, Gloria was interviewed by her longtime collaborator Amy Richards. They discussed everything from the need for community to the current President to Gloria's goal of living past 100. While Gloria is not a foodie, as Amy pointed out, she did contribute to the food world during her time supporting farmworker activist Cesar Chavez and through her work to end gender discrimination in prominent restaurants. Gloria and Amy were introduced by author and activist Padma Lakshmi and her daughter, Krishna Lakshmi-Dell. Thank you to Square for their support. Learn more at square.com/bigTickets for Jubilee L.A.Join the waitlist for our Summer Tastemaker TourSubscribe to Cherry Bombe's print magazineMore on Gloria: Instagram, Gloria's Foundation, “Dear Ms.” on HBO MaxMore on Amy: BooksMore on Padma: Instagram, websiteMore on Kerry: InstagramPast episodes and transcripts

In the latest episode of the Parsing Immigration Policy podcast, host and the Center's executive director Mark Krikorian sits down with Gaby Pacheco, an Ecuador-born “Dreamer” and President and CEO of TheDream.US.Krikorian, a long-time critic of Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA), and Pacheco, now an American citizen, discuss the history and politics of the Dream Act and DACA.Opportunity Lost: Despite holding 60 Senate seats during the first year of the Obama administration, Democrats chose not to move a legislative amnesty for Dreamers – illegal aliens who entered the United States at a young age.What is DACA?: Having failed to pass an amnesty for Dreamers, President Obama bypassed Congress in 2012 and through executive action created DACA, which provides some of the benefits of the Dream Act, including protection from deportation and employment authorization, to certain illegal aliens who entered the U.S. before age 16. Its legality has been the subject of litigation.Origins of the Idea for DACA: Pacheco recounts how, having failed to pass the Dream Act through Congress, the administrative approach of DACA was inspired by a 2003 private bill by Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and the Temporary Protected Status (TPS) program, which provides “temporary” protection from deportation and work authorization eligibility for nationals in the U.S. of countries that have experienced natural disaster or civil strife.Trump's 2018 offer: The Trump administration proposed a legislative package that would have given proper legal status to DACA recipients and other DACA-eligible illegal immigrants, covering perhaps as many as 2 million people, in exchange for key reforms in the legal immigration system. It failed in the House.Looking ahead: Will Congress address DACA?HostMark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies.GuestGaby Pacheco is the President and CEO of TheDream.US.RelatedTheDream.USIntro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

In this week's episode of Parsing Immigration Policy, Jessica Vaughan, the Center's Director of Policy Studies, expands on her recent testimony before the U.S. House immigration subcommittee on “Restoring Integrity and Security to the Visa Process”.Under the Biden administration, the number of visa applications and issuances increased significantly, which created difficulties for vetting and greater opportunity for visa fraud. Along with host and Center Executive Director Mark Krikorian, Vaughan explores various actions that can be taken by Congress or the Trump administration to address these risks.Vaughan identifies several possible changes that could be made administratively.Change the culture of customer service at USCIS and State Department that encourages adjudicators to “get to yes”Require mandatory interviews of all visa applicantsNarrow the default authorized duration of stay for short-term tourist and business visas to 30 days instead of an automatic six monthsVaughan also discusses visa categories that she believes should be reviewed by Congress to decide if they need to be managed more closely, cut back, or eliminated altogether, including:Diversity LotteryU and T visasSpecial Immigrant Juvenile visasOptional Practical TrainingJ visasIn his closing commentary, Mark Krikorian looks inside the “Big Beautiful Bill” and what its enactment means for immigration policy.HostMark Krikorian in the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration Studies.GuestJessica Vaughan is a Director of Policy Studies at the Center for Immigration Studies.RelatedJessica Vaughan's oral and written statementsVideo of the full hearing, plus all written witness statementsOverview of Immigration Provisions in H.R.1, the ‘One Big Beautiful Bill Act'Intro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

No BS Newshour Episode #374Wuhan on the HuronAnn Arbor has been infiltrated by the Communist Chinese.(0:04) And if nobody's going to do anything about it, we will.PLUS- What's Bull$hit in the News?(11:18) Trump floats amnesty for Illegals… not exactly.(16:49) He told the truth. Labor leader Cesar Chavez's view on illegal immigration in 1974 remains relevant today.(20:09) Dancing oaf Shri Thanedar says he loves Detroit. But nobody will dance with him. (22:15) The Big Beautiful Bill is only beautiful for the rich.(29:13) The Epstein files up in smoke. Again, beautiful for the rich.(34:07) Detroit burns & children are shot - And Duggan wants to be our Governor?(40:36) Mega-chuch Pastor and mayoral candidate Solomon Kinloch swears he lives in Detroit. Now he'll have to swear to God. ⁠NBN on YouTube⁠⁠: https://www.youtube.com/@NoBSNewshourNBN on iTunes⁠⁠: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/no-bs-newshour-with-charlie-leduff/id1754976617NBN on Spotify⁠⁠: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qMLWg6goiLQCRom8QNndC⁠⁠Like NBN on Facebook⁠⁠:  https://www.facebook.com/LeDuffCharlie⁠⁠Follow to NBN on Twitter : https://x.com/charlieleduff Sponsored by American Coney Island, Pinnacle Wealth Strategies, XG Service Group, and Archangel Senior Management

After being kidnapped, a promise to return to his mother helped Antonio Salazar-Hobson through his darkest hours.Antonio Salazar-Hobson was four years old when he was kidnapped from his Mexican migrant worker family in Arizona by the white couple who lived next door. From Phoenix, he was taken more than 300 miles away to California, where he grew up suffering terrible abuse. Throughout his ordeal, he replayed the memories he had of his family over and again - especially of his beloved mother Petra - and swore to himself that one day he would make it back to her. As a teenager, he sought out other Mexican-American families to hold on to his roots, and threw himself into left-wing activism on behalf of workers like his family back home. There, he met renowned labour union leader Cesar Chavez who encouraged him to study and become a lawyer; it was an encounter which would change the course of his life. After going to college, and finally escaping his abductors, he began to track down the family he'd been stolen from so many years before.This programme contains references to child sexual abuse and suicide.Presenter: Jo Fidgen Producer: Zoe GelberLives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else's life and expect the unexpected.   Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784   You can read our privacy notice here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

This week's episode of the Parsing Immigration Policy podcast explores a topic rarely covered in the media: marriage fraud. Guest host Marguerite Telford, the Center's Director of Communications, sits down with Richard Lee, a former USCIS Immigration Officer and author, to discuss how sham marriages are orchestrated to gain a green card—and eventually citizenship—often then bringing extended family members through chain migration. They also examine how existing U.S. laws and loopholes make it easier for bad actors to exploit the system, in part, by sharing real-life stories.Key topics:What is marriage fraud? A marriage entered with the primary intention of securing immigration benefits—green cards, citizenship, and eventual chain migration.Types of marriage fraudSingle scheme marriage (friendship marriages)Single scheme one sided marriage (U.S. citizen used and defrauded)Arranged marriage (a paid broker is used and includes fraud rings)Cases of marriage fraudThe Numbers: Rich Lee draws on his USCIS experience in Atlanta, where he uncovered approximately 3,000 marriage-fraud cases over three years, primarily involving immigrant communities common to the region – the two most common foreign nationals involved were from Nigeria and Ghana.Where do brokers find the U.S. citizens to exploit?Lee discusses how homeless people are preyed upon.VAWA fraudAliens exploit the Violence Against Women Act, a federal law that provides protection for victims of domestic violence. The law provides an easy pathway to a green card due to a huge bias towards the alien, who can claim abuse and then self-petition for a green card, all without any in-person interview. This claim of abuse often takes place without the alleged abuser's knowledge. No evidence or information can be taken from the alleged abuser or his family.Telford questions whether it would be a good idea to amend the law so abuse can be contested – maybe adding an adversarial proceeding before an immigration judge.Lee believes that VAWA cases should be taken away from the Vermont Service Center.Lee also believes that in-person interviews should be required to safeguard against fraudulent misuse.USCIS cultureLee explains that he experienced a shift in the agency's culture during his time as an immigration officer. USCIS is now focused almost exclusively on serving immigrants with little support provided to U.S. citizens.Victims are encouraged to report fraud on the ICE tipline:1-866-DHS-2-ICE or ICE.gov/tiplineHostMarguerite Telford is the Director of Communications at the Center for Immigration Studies.GuestRichard Lee is a former USCIS Immigration Officer and author.RelatedAfter the Border: 42 Eye-Opening, Shocking, Crazy, Happy & Fun Stories from a Retired U.S. Immigration OfficerIntro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

This week's episode of the Parsing Immigration Policy podcast delves into the Insurrection Act, its historical uses, and whether it could legally authorize the use of the military to assist in the arrest and removal of illegal aliens.The Insurrection Act allows presidents to deploy federal troops not only in cases of insurrection but also when federal law can't practicably be enforced through conventional means. The Posse Comitatus Act, which many point to as preventing such a use of troops, is not the obstacle many assume it is.President Trump so far has only tasked troops with protection of federal facilities and agents, but, if he chooses to exercise it, he does have authority under the Insurrection Act to put them to work actually enforcing immigration law.“The Insurrection Act has been invoked by leaders of both parties to protect civil rights and to enforce federal law. President Trump would have ample justification to use the Insurrection Act to allow the U.S. military to assist with large-scale deportation efforts,” said podcast guest George Fishman, Senior Legal Fellow at the Center for Immigration Studies and former Deputy General Counsel at DHS.Historical precedent:Over the past more than 200 years, presidents have relied on the Insurrection Act to deal with some 30 crises.Presidents of both parties have relied on the Insurrection Act: Grant to suppress the early KKK, Cleveland to protect Chinese immigrants, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson to enforce civil rights for African Americans, Bush to restore order during the 1992 LA riots.Misconceptions about the Posse Comitatus Act (PCA):The PCA does not apply where Congress has explicitly authorized military use — such as under the Insurrection Act.Immigration enforcement today:More than 15 million illegal aliens are in the U.S.3.6 million backlog in immigration court.1.4 million aliens have final removal orders, yet remain at large. Millions of removable aliens were released by the Biden administration, and ICE has no knowledge of their location.ICE has only 6,000 officers to manage enforcement nationwide.HostMark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration StudiesGuestGeorge Fishman is the Senior Legal Fellow at the Center for Immigration StudiesRelatedDon't Fear the Insurrection ActPresident Trump Doesn't Need to Invoke the Insurrection Act — He Already HasIntro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

Kansas Attorney General Kris Kobach, chairman of the Republican Attorneys General Association, joins Parsing Immigration Policy for a wide-ranging discussion of immigration enforcement, voter integrity, and state-federal cooperation.A key national voice on immigration issues, Kobach shares with host Mark Krikorian insights into the practical and legal efforts that states like Kansas are taking to combat illegal immigration.Highlights include:Illegal Population in KansasAn estimated 90,000 to 100,000 illegal aliens reside in Kansas, many working in industries like construction.State-Federal Law Enforcement CooperationKansas was among the first two states to sign 287(g) cooperation agreements with ICE.ICE has only 15,000 agents for interior enforcement – insufficient for mass removals. Kobach emphasized that under 287(g) the daily “net” cast by local officers provides the eyes and ears for federals agents.Legal Advocacy & LitigationDACA Challenge: Kobach represented ICE agents in early litigation against President Obama's DACA program.Obamacare Benefits Case: Led a multi-state coalition to stop illegal aliens from receiving Affordable Care Act benefits and received a victory from the 8th Circuit.Census Litigation: Currently leading a multi-state effort to exclude illegal aliens from the census for purposes of congressional apportionment. Including illegal aliens and those here on temporary visas causes “all kinds of constitutional problems.”Election IntegrityFormer vice chair of the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity under the first Trump administration.As Secretary State of the State of Kansas, Kobach implemented strict voter ID laws, requiring proof of citizenship to register to vote.Warns that illegal immigrants voting dilutes the votes of U.S. citizens.E-VerifyPrivate businesses in Kansas are not required to use E-Verify, but the agencies and contractors under the Attorney General are mandated to use it for new hires.Broader E-Verify bills have not been enacted due to a strong business lobby in the state.NSEERS (National Security Entry-Exit Registration System)This was a post-9/11 system designed by Kobach when he was at the U.S. Department of Justice to stop the terrorist threat posed by the ease of getting a temporary visa and overstaying that visa.Whenever an alien from a high-risk terrorist country overstayed a temporary visa, he was flagged so that local law enforcement across the country could arrest him during any routine stop.The INS system led to 1,500 arrests of Pakistani illegal aliens, and caused the self-deportation of an estimated 15,000 more.Went into effect in 2002, but President Obama cancelled the program. If it were still in effect, the recent attack by a visa overstayer in Colorado might have been stopped.In today's commentary, Krikorian, the Center's executive director, highlights a corporate-backed push – championed by Agriculture Secretary Rollins – to exempt certain sectors from immigration enforcement. President Trump briefly embraced it, triggering swift backlash from the base and within the administration. The move was quickly reversed, but serves as a reminder that pro-unlimited immigration forces remain active, even within the GOP. Eternal vigilance is essential to ensure that immigration policy forces employers to hustle for workers – not the other way around. A tight labor market is in the national interest.HostMark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration StudiesGuestKansas Attorney General Kris Kobach.Related287(g) Program: A Force Multiplier for Immigration EnforcementA Preventable Terrorist Attack: NSEERS never should have been cancelledAttorney General of Kansas WebsiteKris Kobach personal websiteThat Was FastIntro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

The Center for Immigration Studies releases a new podcast episode focusing on the 287(g) program, an ICE initiative that empowers and trains local law enforcement to help identify and detain illegal aliens involved in criminal activity. The Center's director of policy studies Jessica Vaughan joins host Mark Krikorian to explain how the program works, why it matters, and what's next.Highlights include:What is 287(g)?A federal program established in 1996 that deputizes state and local law enforcement officers to perform certain ICE functions under ICE supervision.The Three Models:Jail Enforcement Model – Officers in the jail have access to DHS databases to investigate the immigration status of inmates, conduct interviews, and even start the deportation process by issuing charging documents.Warrant Service Officer Model – Officers serve ICE warrants and can detain and transport aliens to ICE custody.Task Force/Street Model – Officers can identify and detain aliens encountered during routine police work. In addition, agencies can address specific crime problems related to illegal immigration, such as drug or human trafficking, gangs, or identity theft, but this model has not yet been reinstated by the Trump administration.Training & Oversight:Officers receive ICE training in immigration law and civil rights protections. Agreements are regularly audited to prevent abuse of authority.Policy Shifts:Under Biden: No new agreements accepted, funding cut, most existing agreements terminated; at the end of his term only 43 active agreements were still in effect.Under Trump & Post-2024: Program rapidly expanding – now 635 agreements in 40 states, with Texas and Florida mandating statewide participation.Why It Matters:287(g) is a force multiplier that helps areas underserved by ICE or in areas where the criminal alien caseload exceeds ICE's resources, ensuring criminal aliens don't slip through the cracks.In today's commentary, host Mark Krikorian, the Center's executive director, highlights the return of the “Maryland man,” Kilmar Abrego Garcia, to face federal prosecution. What can be learned from the legal battle and the coverage and reaction to the case?HostMark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration StudiesGuestJessica Vaughan is the Director of Policy Studies at the Center for Immigration Studies.RelatedLearn more about 287(g) program at ICE.govThe 287(g) Program: Protecting Home Towns and HomelandBiden Administration Changes ICE's 287(g) Page and Admits There is a Hold on ProgramWe Are All Less Safe: Biden Targets ICE Law Enforcement ProgramKilmar Abrego Garcia Is Back — to Face Federal Prosecution: Key takeaways from the grand jury indictment and the AG's press conferenceIntro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

With foreign student visas at Harvard and elsewhere in the news, today's episode of Parsing Immigration Policy features Andrew Arthur, the Center for Immigration Studies fellow in law and policy, providing a crash course on the subject. He explains the foreign student admissions process, the responsibilities of schools certified to enroll foreign students, and recent policy issues. With over one million foreign students studying (and working) in America, this episode covers the national security implications of not having proper knowledge of who is being brought in and what they are doing while in the U.S.Key topics covered:Admissions OverviewThe role of the Student and Exchange Visitor Program (SEVP)Student's Application to SEVP-certified institutions.Issuance of Form I-20 upon acceptance.Visa application at U.S. consulates.Which branch controls visa issuance?Role of Designated School Officials (DSOs)A DSO plays the role of a "deputized immigration officer."Monitoring student status via SEVIS.Reporting changes in enrollment or course of study.Conflict of interest? Balancing institutional responsibilities with immigration compliance.Optional Practical Training (OPT)Students working under the OPT program are still on student visas.Will these students lose their ability to be employed as cheap labor?Policy ChallengesWhy did the Trump administration revoke Harvard University's SEVP certification?Potential impact/lack of impact of the District Court's temporary restraining order (TRO).Impact on other schools.In today's commentary, Mark Krikorian, podcast host and executive director of the Center, highlights today's main illegal immigration challenge: visa overstays. He cites the recent Colorado attack committed by a visa overstayer as an example of the importance of action and describes some of the solutions which are in the reconciliation bill.HostMark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration StudiesGuestAndrew Arthur is the Resident Fellow of Law and Policy at the Center for Immigration Studies.RelatedDHS Pulls Harvard's Student-Visa Certification Authority Controversial DHS Program Allows Foreign Students to Train in Sensitive Fields There Are 1.5 Million Foreign Students in the United States (and Over a Third Have Work Authorization) Not all illegal-alien criminals are border-jumpersIntro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Candidate Trump in 2015 campaign speech.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

Dolores Huerta (1930-present) is one of the most influential labor activists of the 20th century and a leader of the Chicano civil rights movement. She helped found the organization now known as United Farm Workers and helped organize the Delano grape strike in 1965. She is credited for coming up with the rallying cry “Sí, se puede,” which means “yes, we can” in Spanish. For Further Reading: Dolores Huerta, renowned American labor leader and civil rights activist who co-founded the United Farm Workers union alongside Cesar Chavez. Dolores Huerta: The Civil Rights Icon Who Showed Farmworkers 'Sí Se Puede' : The Salt : NPR Dolores Huerta’s Story: Community Organizing, the Chicano Movement and Challenging Gender Norms | Reckoning With Our Racial Past UFW Chronology This month, we’re talking about Word Weavers — people who coined terms, popularized words, and even created entirely new languages. These activists, writers, artists, and scholars used language to shape ideas and give voice to experiences that once had no name. History classes can get a bad rap, and sometimes for good reason. When we were students, we couldn’t help wondering... where were all the ladies at? Why were so many incredible stories missing from the typical curriculum? Enter, Womanica. On this Wonder Media Network podcast we explore the lives of inspiring women in history you may not know about, but definitely should. Every weekday, listeners explore the trials, tragedies, and triumphs of groundbreaking women throughout history who have dramatically shaped the world around us. In each 5 minute episode, we’ll dive into the story behind one woman listeners may or may not know–but definitely should. These diverse women from across space and time are grouped into easily accessible and engaging monthly themes like Educators, Villains, Indigenous Storytellers, Activists, and many more. Womanica is hosted by WMN co-founder and award-winning journalist Jenny Kaplan. The bite-sized episodes pack painstakingly researched content into fun, entertaining, and addictive daily adventures. Womanica was created by Liz Kaplan and Jenny Kaplan, executive produced by Jenny Kaplan, and produced by Grace Lynch, Maddy Foley, Brittany Martinez, Edie Allard, Carmen Borca-Carrillo, Taylor Williamson, Sara Schleede, Paloma Moreno Jimenez, Luci Jones, Abbey Delk, Adrien Behn, Alyia Yates, Vanessa Handy, Melia Agudelo, and Joia Putnoi. Special thanks to Shira Atkins. Follow Wonder Media Network: Website Instagram Twitter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this week's episode of Parsing Immigration Policy, Senior Legal Fellow George Fishman explains that verifying Social Security numbers could be the solution to two issues: States' need for tools to help identify those eligible to vote in the United States and DHS's need for tools to uncover employers who are knowingly employing illegal aliens.Voter Eligibility VerificationExecutive Order: U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) has announced that it will be giving states and localities the ability to check SSNs of individuals registering to vote and those already on the voter rolls to verify citizenship.History: Fishman reflects on his role in proposing this idea nearly three decades ago as part of the 1997 Voter Eligibility Verification Act. How it will work: State and local governments will be given access to federal databases through an upgrade of USCIS's Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements system to confirm citizenship.Employment Eligibility VerificationNo-Match Letters: Although the administration has not announced any action on re-instating “no-match” letters, the SSA could revive the practice of notifying employers when a worker's Social Security number doesn't match the name listed in the SSA's database.History: The episode covers the history of no-match letters, including their origins, past implementations, and abandonment by the Obama and Biden administrations. Policy Recommendations: Fishman recommends that SSA resume issuing no-match letters and DHS reissue its regulations instructing employers that they may be found to know that they are employing illegal aliens if they don't take certain actions upon receipt of no-match letters.HostMark Krikorian is the Executive Director of the Center for Immigration StudiesGuestGeorge Fishman is the Senior Legal Fellow at the Center for Immigration Studies.RelatedThe Trump Administration is Empowering States to Verify Voters Citizenship“Preserving and Protecting the Integrity of American Elections”Reviving No-Match Letters: A powerful tool against illegal employmentIs the Harvard TRO Likely to be Effective?DHS Pulls Harvard's Student-Visa Certification AuthorityIntro MontageVoices in the opening montage:Sen. Barack Obama at a 2005 press conference.Sen. John McCain in a 2010 election ad.President Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Immigration Act.Booker T. Washington, reading in 1908 from his 1895 Atlanta Exposition speech.Laraine Newman as a "Conehead" on SNL in 1977.Hillary Clinton in a 2003 radio interview.Cesar Chavez in a 1974 interview.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking to reporters in 2019.Prof. George Borjas in a 2016 C-SPAN appearance.Sen. Jeff Sessions in 2008 comments on the Senate floor.Charlton Heston in "Planet of the Apes".

Welcome to the Shed! In this episode, we talk about:Eva's trip to BendPPS School Board electionsAll about Ainsworth (Eva got menaced) and what PBOT has in store for an upgradePBOT's new bicycle marketing effortHow to counter people who say, "But not everyone can ride a bike."Reasons for optimism at City HallCity budget stuffState transportation package update and cap and trade.Bike Summer rides in the Portland Mercury print editionHow'd she get there? A tough one from SE Woodstock and Cesar Chavez to Peninsula Park for the Kickoff Ride!SW Barbur. Ugh! Why?and more!Thanks for listening and for supporting BikePortland!

What makes an ordinary person step into public life and become a voice for justice? Hadi Jawad's story begins with a phone call from Pakistan—and a family's harrowing journey out of Iraq—that altered the course of his life. In this powerful conversation, George Mason and Hadi explore the formative experiences that led to his lifelong work in human rights, the influence of figures like Rosa Parks and Cesar Chavez, and the importance of claiming agency in a fearful world. Together they reflect on how honoring human dignity can transform both individuals and communities.Hadi Jawad is the co-founder and president of Human Rights Dallas, a writer, activist, and longtime advocate for nonviolent civic engagement in North Texas and beyond.

Cesar Chavez believed that everyone should be treated with respect—especially the people who grow our food. In this episode, we learn how he organized peaceful protests and marches to stand up for farm workers' rights. His story shows how kindness, courage, and unity can bring big change.

Covino & Rich wonder if Covino can get away with a Cesar Chavez post! They talk Sunday's basketbrawl & Rich says NO to blowouts & is a hockey guy now. He has a garbage-time question/worst feeling in sports! 'LAST ONE STANDING' is a heated battle & there's a DeShaun Watson punchline. Plus, Aaron Rodgers/Pittsburgh rumors & a Met celebration HANGS low! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.