Podcast appearances and mentions of joshua kerievsky

Is Agile still relevant in today’s fast-paced world? Brian and Joshua Kerievsky reveal the four game-changing principles of Modern Agile that prioritize safety, empowerment, and continuous value delivery. Overview In this episode, Brian Milner sits down with Joshua Kerievsky, a pioneer in the Agile community and the creator of Modern Agile. They discuss how Agile practices have evolved, the critical role of safety and empowerment, and how to deliver value continuously in today’s fast-paced world. Don’t miss these insights into creating better teams, products, and results through simplicity and experimentation. References and resources mentioned in the show: Joshua Kerievsky Industrial Logic Joy of Agility by Joshua Kerievsky Modern Agile #33 Mob Programming with Woody Zuill #51: The Secrets of Team Safety with Julie Chickering Badass: Making Users Awesome by Kathy Sierra The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg The Lean Startup by Eric Ries Experimentation Matter: Unlocking the Potential of New Technologies for Innovation by Stefan H. Thomke Agile For Leaders Mike Cohn’s Better User Stories Course Accurate Agile Planning Course Join the Agile Mentors Community Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Joshua Kerievsky is the founder and CEO of Industrial Logic and author of Joy of Agility. An early pioneer of Extreme Programming, Lean Software Development, and Lean Startup, Joshua is passionate about helping people achieve genuine agility through principle-based approaches like Modern Agile. Auto-generated Transcript: Brian (00:00) Welcome in Agile Mentors. We're back. And this is another episode of the Agile Mentors podcast. I'm here as I always am. I am Brian Milner and today I am joined by Joshua Kerievsky and really excited to have Joshua here with us. Welcome in Joshua. Joshua Kerievsky (00:16) Thank you so much, Brian. Happy to be here. Brian (00:19) Very excited for Joshua to be here. Joshua's been around for a while. He's been doing this for a long time. He said, you know, when we were talking before, and he's been involved with Agile before, it was called Agile. And, you know, that probably tells you all you need to know there. But a couple other things here about him, just so that you kind of can place him a little bit. His company is Industrial Logic, Inc. and he's the CEO and founder of that company. He has a book called Joy of Agility that's out there that I highly recommend. It's a really great book. And he's also closely associated with something that maybe you've been aware of, maybe you've heard of, maybe you haven't, but something called Modern Agile. And that's what I thought we'd focus on here for our discussion is really to try to understand a little bit about it. especially for those of you, maybe you haven't heard of it, haven't been around it before. So... Why don't we start there, Joshua? Tell us a little bit about what was the need that was trying to be filled with something like modern Agile. Joshua Kerievsky (01:19) Well, it goes back to a conference I attended in Prague back in around 2015. And I was giving a speech, a keynote speech there, and that ended. And then I went and said, well, I'm going to go join the OpenSpace. And I was just looking at what people were talking about at the OpenSpace. And at that point in time, I had already been experimenting with a ton of stuff that just kind of different from what we had been doing 10 years earlier or even later than that. I mean, just this was new things that we were doing, whether it was continuous deployment or ideas from lean startup or ideas from the pop and dykes and lean concepts applied to agility or just a lot of things that were just different. And none of the sessions I was seeing in the open space seemed to be talking about any of that stuff, like giving up story points or moving away from sprints until continuous flow. just nothing was being talked about. So I just said, well, I'm going to host a session, and I'll call it, I don't know, a modern Agile. And so that's as far as I got in terms of thinking about the name. I just wanted to run a session where we could talk about, there's a lot of new things we're doing that kind of display some of the older ideas. And they're very useful, I found. So the session ended up getting a lot of attention. 60, 70 people showed up there. So we had a big group. And it was well received. People were fascinated by the stuff that they weren't aware of. And so I then repeated this open space event in Berkeley. Like a month later, was Agile Open Door Cal in Berkeley was running and did it again. And again, there was tremendous interest. in this, so much so that I decided to write a blog and wrote the blog and started getting more conversations happening. And that sort of began the movement of describing this thing called Modern Agile. And it took a few twists and turns in the beginning, but it wasn't sort of, I guess, if anything, I felt like Agile needed to be a little more simple. in terms of what we were explaining, because it was starting to get very complex with frameworks, enterprise frameworks coming along like safe and just too many moving parts. And so what ended up happening is I wrote some things and people started to notice, there's kind of like four things there that are really valuable. One of them was The names changed a little bit over time. But anyway, what ended up was four principles emerged. And that really became modern Agile. Brian (03:58) That's awesome. just for listeners here, I've pitched attending conferences in the past. If you've listened to this podcast, you've heard me say that, and I'll create things come out of that. And here's an example, right? This is something that was open space discussion. Open space, if you're not familiar with that, at conferences, can, if there's an open space day or a couple of days, then anyone can present any topic they want. And whoever shows up is who shows up. And this one got a lot of attention. And a movement grew from this open space topic, which is awesome. So let's talk. You mentioned there's four principles here. And I like the distinction here we're making also between the frameworks and the practices versus the cultural aspects or the philosophy behind it. And returning to those roots a little bit more from what Agile originally was. So you mentioned there's kind of four areas of this. Let's walk our way through those. I know the first one, or one of the first ones here is make people awesome. So help us understand, what do you mean by make people awesome? Joshua Kerievsky (04:59) Probably the most controversial of principles, because you'll get people coming along saying, wait a minute, people are already awesome. What are you talking about? And it comes from my, I'm a big fan of Kathy Sierra. And her blog was incredible. And her book, she wrote a book called Badass, Making Users Awesome. And in her book, she was really wonderfully clear about Brian (05:07) You Joshua Kerievsky (05:24) that teams that build products ought to focus on the user of the products more than the product itself. In other words, she would say, don't try to create the world's best camera. Try to create the world's best photographers. Big subtle difference there. Like that is focusing so much on empowering the users, making them awesome at their work or whatever they're doing, whether it's art or accounting or whatever, whatever your product does, how can you give them something that elevates their skills, that gets them to a point of awesomeness faster? And that's what she was talking about. So I thought, what a wonderful message. And initially, I used language like make users awesome. you know, having been an entrepreneur myself and created products and sold them and You learn a heck of a lot when you make your own product. And we've made several products over the years at Industrial Logic, probably the most successful of which was our e-learning software. And that has taught me so many, so many lessons. One of them is you have to serve an ecosystem of people. You can't just make your main user awesome. What about the person who's buying the software? How do you make them awesome in terms of helping them buy something that's going to get used? If they buy your e-learning and they never use it, they've wasted a lot of money. So we've got to make sure that their reputation is intact because they made an excellent investment and it got used and it got into valuable, it created value in the company. So how do I make the buyer awesome? How do I make the person that like rolls out the licenses to people awesome? How do I make their experience awesome? How do I make my colleagues awesome so that we love what we're doing and really enjoy working together? So it kind of morphed from make users awesome to make people awesome. And it's so expanded. If anything, we set the bar higher. And all of the principles of modern agile are like unachievable. They're all kind of high bars, right? But they're the goal that we go towards. So that really is it. It's about creating Brian (07:23) Ha Joshua Kerievsky (07:35) you know, wonderful, you know, the in Great Britain, they use awesome kind of sarcastically sometimes, right? They'll say, well, that's awesome. You know, and so for them, it would be brilliant. You know, I thought of making an English version. We have many translations of modern agile, and I thought of making an English version, which would be a proper British English version, make people brilliant. But it's meant to be to empower folks to give them something. And it's so it is. Brian (07:43) Ha You Joshua Kerievsky (08:04) It does have a product focus in the sense of we're typically building a system or a product that someone's going to use and it's going to give them skills they didn't have before or abilities they didn't have before that are going to be very valuable. Brian (08:18) Yeah, I love that. And there's a sort of a servant nature to that servant leaders, not servant leadership as much, but servant nature of I'm serving these people and how do I, how do I serve them in a way that really empowers them? Kind of reminds me of like, you know, the, the great principle with, with dev ops of just, know, if I can, if I can empower the developers to be able to do these things on their own. And so they don't need someone else to come and check the box and do everything for them. You're making them awesome. You're empowering them to be more than they were otherwise. Joshua Kerievsky (08:54) Yes, yes, absolutely. I I think we've seen a history in the software field of a lot of tools coming along and helping. It's not just tools, it's also methods as well. I mean, I'm entirely grateful to the Agile software development movement because it helped nudge everything towards a far better way of working and to make us more awesome at our craft. yeah, you have to have a North Star though. If you're going to build something, You have to know, what are we going for here? What are we shooting for? And with Cathy's influence, again, it's not so much make the greatest product in the world. It's, that focus on the users, the people who are going to be using the work, using the product. Brian (09:34) That's really good. Let's talk about the second one then on my list here, the make safety a prerequisite. What was the point here behind this principle? Joshua Kerievsky (09:40) Yes. So starting probably around 2011 or so, I could not stand going to the Agile Conference anymore. It had just become too commercial and too filled with just people hocking stuff. And it just was bothering me too much. I couldn't go. So I ended up going to South by Southwest, which is an Brian (09:54) You Joshua Kerievsky (10:09) Enormous conference tens of thousands of people show up So it'd be 20,000 30,000 40,000 people showing up for these for this event, which is musical film technology just it's just wild and I came across this book by Charles Duhigg called the power of habit. He was there that year and In that book. Well, first of all that particular year was 2012 that I went my first year there it poured The rain, it was every day, it was unusual for that time, but it was just like pouring rain. So what could you do? I bought some books and I was sitting there in my room reading them. And I'm reading this book, The Power of Habit, and I come across this chapter called The Ballad of Paul O'Neill. Now who the heck's Paul O'Neill? Well, it turns out Paul O'Neill is this incredible guy, a complete business maverick. He ended up becoming the treasury secretary under Bush and not. in 2000 for a short period of time, but that's another story. And he ran Alcoa for about 13 or 14 years. And so the Ballot of Paul O'Neill is very much about what he did at Alcoa to turn the company around. And in essence, you could say he made safety a prerequisite. That safety was his guiding light in turning that company around, which meant left people empowered to do all kinds of things. So it went way beyond safety, but started there. And it's an incredible story. I've written about it in Joy of Agility. I got so into Paul O'Neill that I ended up interviewing his main lieutenant. And then I got a chance to interview him a couple of times. the man's a genius. He passed away a few years back. Absolute genius. this concept of safety started to really pull at me in the sense that I felt, first of all, extreme programming, and I'm a big practitioner of extreme programming, brings a tremendous amount of safety to software development. It may not be as explicit in saying safety, safety, safety. When you look at extreme programming, doesn't really talk about safety, but it's implicit. And these days, Kent Beck's much more vocal about, you One of his missions is to make software development safer for geeks. But safety to me is almost like I found my home. Like safety was something that, what I learned through Paul O'Neill was that it's a doorway to excellence. And he transformed a hundred year old company with safety. I would complain about companies we were working with that were 25 years old and had an embedded culture. Like, how are we gonna change this company? But safety started to be this thing that I hadn't really thought enough about, and making it explicit opened up a lot of doors, right? And I became very interested in the work of Amy Edmondson, who's extremely famous today, but back then she was not so famous. And huge fan of hers. I, you know, I can email her and she'll email me back and she wrote a nice thing about my book. So. She has done some incredible work there. And so when we talk about safety in modern agile, it's psychological safety. It's financial safety. It's any of the safeties. There are many safeties that we could talk about. And it looks at all of them, right? It's brand safety, software safety in terms of security. you know, of the software and on and on and on. So make safety prerequisite is vast and big in terms of what we're trying to do there. Making it a prerequisite means it's not an afterthought and it's not a priority that shifts with the winds. It is permanent. It is something that we know we have to have in place. And it's very, very hard to achieve. Just like make people awesome is hard to achieve. Boy, is make safety a prerequisite difficult. Brian (13:43) Hmm. Yeah, I love Amy Edmondson's work as well. I'm just kind of curious. does the safety kind of inclusive of things like quality as well? Do you intend that to be part of what you mean by safety? Joshua Kerievsky (14:11) Well, mean, to the extent that it makes it safer to do good software development. So if bugs are happening all the time, you can't make people awesome, typically if you don't have quality. If you have really poor quality, nobody's being made awesome. They're experiencing all kinds of problems with your product. So make people awesome and make safety a prerequisite are very much tied together. That is, there is no real excellence without safety. You could think you're having an excellent experience, so that all of a sudden there's a major problem, and boy, are you unhappy. So they really go hand in hand. You could have the most incredible restaurant, and then one day you've got food poisoning happening. Great, no one's come to your restaurant. So you will not make anyone awesome if you don't make safety a prerequisite, and quality is part of that. Brian (14:57) Awesome. Well, let's move on to the next one then, because the next category is one that just resonates with me a lot. Experiment and learn rapidly. What was kind of the thought behind this one? Joshua Kerievsky (15:06) Yeah, and this is one where it that's shorthand, if you will, because you can only fit so many words on a wheel there. But it's important to know that that really means experiment rapidly and learn rapidly. And that comes a lot out of it in the influences of something like Lean Startup. I'm a huge fan of that book and of Eric's work, Eric Reese's work. Brian (15:13) Ha Joshua Kerievsky (15:29) And the fact that we can experiment rapidly and learn rapidly rather than just building everything and then learning slowly. Right? How can we do cheap experiments quickly to decide what's important to work on and what isn't? Let's not build stuff nobody wants. Let's find more time with our customers and understand their needs better so we can build the right things that make them awesome. In other words, and a lot of these are interconnected. In many respects, modern Agile is a Venn diagram. ideally want all four principles to be overlapping. And right there in that middle is where you really want to be. Not easy. But experimenting, learning rapidly, yeah. So challenge yourself to find ways to do quick, cheap, useful experiments. You can do lot of unuseful experiments. Amazon experienced that. There's a story in my book about how Amazon had to start just shepherding the experiments a little more and having some better criteria. Because you could do an endless array of experiments and not get anywhere. There's a wonderful book called Experimentation Matters by a Harvard business professor. Wonderful book as well. But I love experimentation and learning. And I see it as critical to building great products. So that's that principle there. Brian (16:46) Yeah, there's a real difference, I think, in organizations that put value on that learning process. if you see it as a valuable thing, that we invest time to gain knowledge, then that really can truly make an impact when you go forward. I know I've talked about this in classes sometimes where people will say, isn't it a little bit selfish from the organization to try to always just figure out what's going to sell the best? or what's going to work the best in advance of putting something out. My response is always, well, yes, there is a benefit to the business, but there's a benefit to the customer as well because they would rather you work on things that they care more about. Joshua Kerievsky (17:24) That's right. Yeah. I mean, we once put out an experimental product to a large automotive company. And we were really excited about it. We had a whole list of features we wanted to add to it. But we were like, you know what? Let's just get this primitive version kind of in their hands just to see what happens. it turned out that we learned very rapidly that they couldn't run the software at all. There was some proxy. that was preventing communication with our servers from their environment. So it was like, excellent. We learned really quickly that instead of those fancy new features we want to add to this thing, we're going to fix the proxy problem. And to me, that's the nature of evolutionary design is that we create something, get it out there quickly, and learn from it rapidly and evolve it. So it goes hand in hand with that as well. Brian (18:11) That's awesome. Well, there's one category left then, and that is deliver value continuously. So what was the genesis of that? Thinking about delivering value continuously. Joshua Kerievsky (18:19) So that was heavily influenced by my own journey into continuous delivery and continuous deployment and that whole world. We got into that very early. I was lucky enough to catch a video by Timothy Fritz, who he worked with Eric at IMBU. And he coined the term continuous deployment. And that video is actually no longer on the Brian (18:43) Ha Joshua Kerievsky (18:44) But this was something that I became enamored of was doing continuous deployment. And we started doing it at Industrial Logic with our own e-learning software back in about 2010. And by the time you get to like 2015, it's like, hey folks, there's this thing where you can do a little bit of work and ship it immediately to production in a very safe way, a safe deployment pipeline. It's friggin' awesome. But the principle doesn't just apply to that because this modern agile is not just about software development. It's how can I work in a way that gets value in front of people as fast as possible? So for example, if I'm working on a proposal, great, I'm not going to work for two weeks and then show you something. I'm going to put something together, a skeleton, I'm going to show it to you and say, what do you think? Does this add value? Where would we improve this? Blah, blah, Again, going hand in hand with evolutionary design. continuous delivery of value is something that is a way of working. With artists that I work with, they'll do a quick sketch or two or three sketches of something first before we start settling in on which one do we like the best and how do we want to craft and refine that. So there's a way of working in which you're delivering value much more finely grained and approaching continuously instead of in bigger batches. Brian (20:05) Yeah. I love the connection there between artists as well, because I've got a background in music, and I'm thinking about how when you go to write a song or create a new work like that, you start off with the roughest of demo tapes, and you move from there to increasingly more sophisticated versions of it until you finally have the finished product. But no one thinks that's strange or thinks that's weird in any way. But you're right. Sometimes there's this attitude or kind of I think in some organizations of, we can't let anyone see that until it's absolutely finished, until it's done. Joshua Kerievsky (20:39) Yeah, yeah, and that maybe that's that there's some fear there, you know, because they don't want to be thought of as, you know, being lesser because they put something rough in front of someone. Whereas I view it as a, you know, to me, it's a sign of weakness when you when you only send something polished because you haven't had the courage or the sense of safety to put something rough where we can make better decisions together early on. So. There's a lot of learning, I think, around that. But it's a challenging principle of its own, deliver value continuously. And people would say, well, what does value mean? Value is one of those words where it's unclear, because you could improve the internal design of a software system. Is that value? It probably is. But you've got to be able to quantify it or prove that it's going to help make things more graceful in terms of flowing features out. yeah, quantifying, communicating what the value is. is important. I'm also a big fan of maximizing the amount of work not done, as it says in the manifesto. So how can we do less and deliver more sooner? Our motto in industrial logic now is better software sooner. And a lot of these principles go straight into that. that drives it. Brian (21:38) Yeah. That's really great. Yeah, I love these four principles and I think that they really represent a lot. There's a lot that's baked into each one of these things. And I'm sure as you kind of put this together with the community and started to talk more about it, I'm sure there were some challenges. I'm sure people came up to you and said, well, what about and how about this? Is there anything now looking back on this that you'd say, gosh, we really... really didn't quite cover this or, know, this is maybe I could fudge it and squeeze it in this area, but you know, there's this other thing that I really think would be important to kind of mention here as well. Joshua Kerievsky (22:28) Well, you know, it's funny, because I thought I was going to write a book. I started collecting stories. I love telling stories, and I find stories to be a great way to help educate people. Not the only way, right? But as part of some of the workshops I give, you tell a story. Hopefully it's a story that's sticky, that sticks in the person's brain. And over the years, I collected stories like that, stories of agility. I thought I'd be writing a book about modern agile when I started writing Joy of Agility. Gradually, as I wrote more and more stories, they didn't quite fit into all those four principles. And I think the lesson I learned there was that I was starting to talk about what pure Agile means, the word Agile. What does it really mean to be Agile? Whereas modern Agile is really almost in the context of product development, of building services or products for people. Whereas Agile itself is even more pure. And so the... the book itself got into the difference between quickness and hurrying, which you can relate to this. You could say experiment and learn rapidly. Well, OK, maybe we shouldn't rush it. Don't rush. Be quick, but don't hurry is one of the mantras in Joy of Agility. So adapting, right? Adapting, we talk about adapting all the time. So to be agile, you need to be able to adapt quickly. These four principles in modern agile don't say anything about adapting. Brian (23:46) Ha Joshua Kerievsky (23:48) So that's kind of implied, but it's not there. So it's a different lens on agility. If anything, I'd say the make people awesome principles are not meant to. It created some dislike, I'd say, from some people. It could have been called empower people, potentially, although a lot of people really love make people awesome. I don't know so much what I'd change there. I'd say we have a .org. So it's a modernagile.org is a website. There's a pretty large Slack community, which, know, four or 5,000 people on that. We don't certify anyone in modern agile, so there's no certifications, but it's something that is neutral in the sense that whether you practice Scrum or Kanban or Safe or whatever, these principles can influence you. And, you know, but again, this all came out of like, when I went to that open space conference in Prague, I had no idea I was going to talk about modern agile. You know, it was not like a predetermined thing. It was just like, my God, they're not talking about the modern ways we're doing stuff. So, and I always encourage people to, you know, keep pushing the limits and keep modernizing. I said to my own company the other day, our wonderful ways of working that we've been doing now for years that have evolved, they're probably antiquated as of today. You know, with generative AI, what would we do differently? Let's have a perspective on our own work as it needs to be modernized constantly. So the term modern in modern agile means always be modernizing, always be looking. Okay, I've had people say, well, Josh, some things don't need to be modernized. There's things that are just evergreen. They're classic. I'm like, absolutely. I'm not changing evolutionary design anytime soon. I find it to be quite useful in so many contexts. So yes, there's the evergreen stuff. And then there's the stuff where you can, indeed, discover a better way. The manifesto itself says, we are discovering better ways of working. Great. Keep that going. Keep modernizing and looking for easier, simpler, quick, easy grace. as the dictionary definition of Agile says, how can we work with quick, easy grace? That's always going to be improving, hopefully. Brian (26:12) Love that, yeah. And you're right, I mean, think there's some, to some people I think that there's, I guess at times an attitude of, you this is all new stuff or this is a brand new concept and something they don't really see the connection backwards in time to how these things are all built on other ideas that have been progressive over the years. So the idea of, yeah, this is, you know, we're, we're not saying that certain ideas are bad because now we're trying to modernize them. We're just saying we're trying to apply that same principle forward into kind of the context of today, which I don't see anyone should have a problem with that. Joshua Kerievsky (26:48) That's right. That's right. Well, and if you are experimenting and learning rapidly with your own process, which I highly encourage, chances are the way you work today will be different than it was yesterday. You will be exploring, like we use discovery trees today. We didn't use them before. Years ago, no one knew what a story map was. There wasn't such a thing as a story map. Now we have story maps. There's constant improvement happening. And you've got to be open-minded and willing to try new things and drop old stuff. We thought sprints and iterations and extreme programming was absolutely fundamentally part of the way to work. Then we started experimenting with dropping them and turned out, wow, this is pretty cool. We like this. It works pretty darn well for our purposes. That came through experimentation. some of our experiments were terrible, just terrible. It's not an experiment if you already know the outcome. keep pushing the limits of what can make you happier and more joyful at work in terms of producing great stuff. Brian (27:46) Awesome. That's great stuff. Well, I can't thank you enough for coming on, Joshua. This is great stuff. just, you know, we'll put all the links to the books mentioned and everything else in our show notes for everybody. But as Joshua said, you can go to modernagile.org and find out more about this if you'd like to. You'll find information there about Joshua himself or his company again is Industrial Logic, Inc. And, you know, his book again, just to mention that, Joy of Agility. We were talking how some people get that title a little mixed up or whatever, but it's just the three words, joy of agility. So just look out for that book. I think you'll find it a rich resource for you. Joshua, thanks so much for coming on. Joshua Kerievsky (28:25) Thank you, Brian. Thanks to you. Thanks to Mountain Goat and the folks there. And I really appreciate chatting with you. It was really wonderful.

Joshua Kerievsky is the founder and CEO of Industrial Logic, and someone who's been shaking up the world of agile for years. He's the creator of Modern Agile, which is all about making work better for people by focusing on four key principles: make people awesome, delivering value continuously, make safety a prerequisite, experiment and learning rapidly.  In this episode, we talk about Joshua's latest book, Joy of Agility. It's not your typical how-to manual—it's packed with inspiring stories and practical insights that show agility as a mindset, not just a framework. The six mantras of Joy of Agility are:  Be quick but dont hurry Be balanced and graceful Be poised to adapt Start minimal and eveolve Drive out fear Be readily resourceful Joshua has a knack for making agility feel approachable, joyful, and deeply human. Whether you're leading a team or just curious about finding better ways to work, this conversation is sure to spark some fresh ideas. This is the full English version of the earlier published interview with Joshua that had an indtroduction in Swedish.   

En intervju med Joshua Kerievsky, grundare av Industrial Logic, pappa till Modern agile och författare till flera böcker om agila arbetssätt, nu den senaste Joy of Agility, som det här samtalet handlar om. Jag ger lite bakgrund till Modern Agile och Joy of Agility här, så blir samtalet enklare att följa med i. Modern Agile är en ambition att ta agila principer till en nivå som är tillämpbar på alla typer av branscher. Den består av fyra principer och här finns även illustrationen över dessa: Modern Agile 4 principer Hjälp människor att briljera Leverera värde löpande Skapa trygga förutsättningar Experimentera och lär dig snabbt   Boken Joy of Agilty kokar ner agila arbetssätt till 6 mantran. Dessa ser du i sin helhet här. I samtalet pratar vi endast om några av dem.  6 mantran från Joy of Agility Be quick but dont hurry Be balanced and graceful Be poised to adapt Start minimal and eveolve Drive out fear Be readily resourceful   Hålltider: 0:38 Inbjudan till workshop, se även tealpodden.se/workshop 1:52 Introduktion till Joshuas verk Modern Agile och Joy of Agility 3:35 start på intervjun   Joshua nämner böckerna Kathyt Sierra - Badass. Making Users Awesome Harry Beckwith - Selling the Invisible och Coachen John Wooden. Hoppas du gillar avsnittet! 

What makes a team intelligent? Brian and Linda Rising explore the surprising factors that foster group intelligence, from psychological safety to diversity, backed by groundbreaking research from MIT and Google. Overview In this episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast, Brian Milner sits down with Agile thought leader Linda Rising to explore the concept of group intelligence. They dive into what makes teams intelligent, discussing the importance of diversity, psychological safety, and social perceptiveness. Using research from MIT and Google, Linda also highlights how storytelling and a growth mindset can enhance team dynamics, leading to more effective and innovative collaboration. References and resources mentioned in the show: Linda Rising Fearless Change: Patterns for Introducing New Ideas by Mary Lynn Manns & Linda Rising MIT Center For Collective Intelligence Project Aristotle The Fearless Organization by Amy C. Edmonson Amy Edmonson’s TED Talks 3 ways to better connect with your coworkers - Mark T. Rivera’s TED Talk Advanced Certified Scrum Product Owner® Advanced Certified ScrumMaster® Agile For Leaders Mountain Goat Software Certified Scrum and Agile Training Schedule Join the Agile Mentors Community Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Linda Rising is an internationally recognized consultant, speaker, and author with a Ph.D. in object-based design metrics. Known for her expertise in agile development, retrospectives, and the intersection of neuroscience and software, Linda has authored five books and numerous articles. In 2020, she received the Lifetime Achievement Award from the World Agility Forum for her impactful contributions to the industry. Auto-generated Transcript: Brian (00:00) Welcome in Agile Mentors. We're back here with you for another episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast. I am with you as I always am, Brian Milner. And I wanted to introduce you today to someone I think you're really gonna enjoy here on this episode. I have the one and only Linda Rising with me. Linda, thank you so much for coming on. Linda Rising (00:09) Okay. It is my pleasure, Brian. Thank you so much for inviting me. It's a beautiful day here in Nashville, Tennessee. Brian (00:32) In Nash Vegas, yes. I actually spent a couple years in Nash Vegas. So I know that area back in the day, back in the day, because I worked at Opryland. So that'll tell you how long ago it was. Yeah, back in the dark times, right? But Linda, for those, if anyone who might not be aware, Linda is an author. She is... Linda Rising (00:33) Yeah! wow okay Brian (00:58) really what people would call an agile luminary. She has been involved with this movement for quite a while and has really, I don't think it's too far of a stretch to say shaped the conversation around this a lot with her research and other things that she's provided. we wanted to have her on because she, well, because it's Linda Rising, right? We wanted to have her on for that, but. Recently, she spoke at the Scrum Gathering, the regional Scrum Gathering that took place in Stockholm, and her topic just sounded really fascinating. I thought it would be fascinating for us to talk about. It was a topic of group intelligence. So Linda, I'm sure there's a lot of people out there like me that when they heard that the first time thought, I have no idea what that means. What does group intelligence mean? Linda Rising (01:43) Yeah. Actually, normally when I do anything, give a keynote or an interview on a podcast or the interviewer or the person who's inviting me will say, what would you like to talk about? That's what you did. What would you like to talk about with the idea that I could come up with a list of things I was interested in that I wanted to talk about because I knew something about it. Brian (02:09) Yep, it's true. Linda Rising (02:20) But in this case, no, it was, want you to be the opening keynote for this amazing gathering in Stockholm. and by the way, we want you to talk about group intelligence. So. That was about a year ago and I thought to myself, I don't know anything about, well, maybe I do. Maybe I do know something about group intelligence. But I have spent the past year getting ready for that talk. It was just a few weeks ago and along the way, what I found was it pulled together the research around this topic. pulled together a lot of things that I have been thinking about and it is still not over. I had to give that talk, there was a date for that, but now there are little threads that, as you say, I'm following those down various rabbit holes because they're connected to other things that I'm interested in. So this turned out to be, even though I didn't pick it and I didn't know a whole lot about it, It's turned out to be a great introduction to a different way of thinking. So we know what intelligence is, I think. Don't you? Do you know you have an idea? And aren't you intelligent? Brian (03:41) That's so awesome. Well, that's a quite a loaded question, right? Linda Rising (03:53) Of course you are and and so are our listeners our listeners are intelligent and what's interesting is that the psychologists who measure that They don't really have a definition for intelligence. What they do is they can test for it So have you ever had you know an intelligence test You know, an IQ test. Have you? Have you ever had one? Brian (04:25) You know what, I don't think I ever have, but I know my wife has, my daughters have, I'm very familiar with them, but I can't point back to one to say, hey, I know what my score was. Linda Rising (04:28) I'll bet you have. Well, sometimes you're given that test at a particular point, maybe in high school, and they didn't tell you that it was an intelligence test. You just took it along with the other battery of tests that you were taking at the time. And maybe they didn't tell you, you have an IQ of 145. They didn't tell you how smart you were. Brian (04:47) Yeah. Linda Rising (05:06) but somebody, somewhere, somehow along the way, they did. They measured it. And that's without having a definition for whatever it is. So what that test does is it says you're pretty good at solving a bunch of problems. And that's what the test is. Brian (05:17) That's amazing. Linda Rising (05:32) it asks you to look at some math problems, logic problems, spatial problems, different kinds of problems, and you either solve them pretty well or not so well, and when they are finished with that, that score on that test says something about how well you do at solving those problems. And that's what they're calling intelligence. Brian (06:03) I think I see where you're going with this because to me, if we're going to try to be very precise with words on that, I would say that sounds more like education. If I know how to solve a particular kind of math problem, that's because I've been educated to learn that. It's not a measure of my... Linda Rising (06:13) Yeah. Yep, yep. And so those tests, yeah, those tests do have a bias. They're biased toward people who have a certain kind of education biased against people who maybe didn't have that kind of education. Also, it doesn't even begin to talk about music. Here I am in Music City. Doesn't talk about musical talent. Brian (06:43) Yeah Linda Rising (06:46) It doesn't talk about your ability to perform, say, some sports activity, whether you're going to be a great basketball player or a baseball player. There are a lot of things that intelligence tests don't even, they don't even think about. Now, it doesn't mean this isn't a valid exercise because those IQ tests have been around a long time and they do measure what they measure, they measure it very well. And they do correlate with a lot of performance activities. In fact, if you were hiring somebody, the absolute best thing, if you could just do one thing, would be to give them an IQ test. That correlates most strongly with any kind of performance on the job. So it's a valid test, even if it has some biases, some problems. So that's individual intelligence and we call that IQ. So now the question is, can you do that for a group or a team? Brian (07:53) Yeah. Linda Rising (08:03) Could you say this group, could we measure it somehow? And if so, would it have the same kind of validity? That is, if they do well on this test, would that mean they would do well in the workplace? If we had that, then could we use it to say, all right, this team. is really going to be great for whatever it is that we wanted them to do. Is that possible? So obviously the answer is yes, or I wouldn't be here talking about it. Yeah. So the research is fascinating and it would take a long time to actually go into it, but it was started at MIT. The organization is called the MIT Center for Collective Intelligence. and they have been doing this now for over a decade. So this is not brand new out of the box. We're not sure where this is going. This has been happening and has been happening successfully. They do have a test. They can give it to a group. And what they find is that if the group does well, that group will also do well on other, just like IQ, other kinds of things that the test measures. And so, yes, they can measure group intelligence. Brian (09:38) Very interesting. This is really fascinating. Yeah. It's fascinating. I'm going to interrupt you for just a moment because I know, and forgive me if I'm taking you off track with where you were intending to go. But I know, having heard some of your other talks in the past on agile mindset and what you've written about, I know there's kind of this fundamental idea of the fixed verse. Linda Rising (09:39) It is interesting. Yeah. No, no, no, it's okay. Brian (10:05) growth mindset and the idea of intelligence being not necessarily a thing you're born with, but really something that you have the potential to change and grow. And how does that translate then to the group environment and the group's intelligence? Linda Rising (10:23) Yeah, so that's a great lead in because the next part of it was, well, okay, so we have this test and we can give it to a group, but we'd like to tease out some attributes of teams to say, you know, the teams that do really well on this test, they all seem to have, and they found there were three things that characterized Brian (10:26) Yeah. Linda Rising (10:52) intelligent group. The first one was called social perceptiveness. That is, are the people on the group, are they able to relate to each other? If one of the persons in the groups having a struggle for some reason, are they able to pick up on that? It's kind of hard to say, well what is that social perceptiveness? and we can come back to that, but that's first on the list. The second attribute is that when they have any kind of a discussion, that everybody talks. And that's pretty easy to see, and I know that you've probably been on teams as I have, where really not everybody talked, where maybe mostly one or two Brian (11:24) Yeah. Okay. Linda Rising (11:49) You know the loud people they did all the talking and the rest of us We just kind of sat in the corner and we said well, you know, whatever Yeah We've been there. Well, have we have we have seen that and I don't know how you're gonna feel about the third one But we all are concerned about diversity Brian (12:00) Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Linda Rising (12:17) We know that diversity is an issue. All organizations are struggling with the best way to deal with that. But the third attribute has to do with the percentage of women on the team. Brian (12:34) Really? Linda Rising (12:35) So this isn't like 50-50. This doesn't mean that you should have some women. It means the more women you have, the better. Ooh. You wanna think about that one? Brian (12:38) Yeah. You know what? I would not argue with that one bit because all the women that I've had in my life have been the most intelligent people I have known. So I would wholeheartedly concur with that. We're just a bunch of knuckleheads, the guys are. So I completely... Linda Rising (12:58) Ha! Brian (13:17) You know, I'm having some fun, but you're right. I can see that, you know? Like, I could see how that would be a really distinguishing characteristics. Linda Rising (13:22) Wow! So the researchers say maybe it's really not a gender thing because women are very good at social perceptiveness. And maybe what this third attribute, and they did a lot of statistical analyses, you you have to really dig down into the statistics and we don't want to do that. Maybe this third attribute is really a reflection of the first. And then if you, and here we're going to come to your growth mindset, if you could work with the people on the team who were not women, but who were these nerdy guys, know, could you somehow have them grow, improve, get better at social perceptiveness, then that would have the same effect as having more women on the team. And that's kind of where they are right now is can you do this? Are they equivalent? Are they really measuring the same thing? But they know that somehow that's what you've got to have is this ability to read. It's called theory of mind. Read the minds of the people on the team and that typically You know, we're stereotyping here. Typically men are not as good. So can you, could you, can you grow that characteristic? Can you get better? Can you get better at that? Brian (15:06) Yeah, I'll take a slight little side trail here and say that that makes perfect sense to me because one of the things that I found when I was doing my research on neurodiversity and specifically autism was that there's a book out there that I think I've shared on the podcast before, but it's called Autism in Heels. And basically the point of the book is to really examine autism in women. And one of the key points that's made in the book is the fact that when you see statistics about autism, you'll find that there's a huge number, there's a disparity. There's a large number of men, of males that are diagnosed and a few, a smaller percentage of females. And it gives the impression when you look at the data that you might think, well, this is a male thing, right? It's something that happens much more often than male. But this book is making the point that really, Linda Rising (16:02) Yeah. Brian (16:04) the criteria that was set aside to designate whether someone was autistic or not was really geared towards how it presents in males. So women were vastly underdiagnosed and still are to this day vastly underdiagnosed. And one of the things that makes it difficult to diagnose them is women are better at masking their symptoms. very much, they adapt to the environment around them. They pick up on the people around them. Linda Rising (16:18) Yeah. Brian (16:34) and they will mask the things that maybe are naturally a part of them, but they've learned in other parts of life how to do that. And so they're applying that to their autism as well. So that makes perfect sense to me. Linda Rising (16:43) Yeah. Yep, exactly. And of course, if we want to talk about women who have this tendency or on the spectrum, we have to mention Temple Grandin, who is one of the most famous female autistics in the world. I she's done more to gain attention for this problem, and she's definitely female. yeah, it's not it's not a male thing. But you're right that what's happened is that the women have had a growth mindset and whatever they inherited or were born with, they've done a better job at learning how to adapt given what they had as a limitation, adapting to working with others and using that as a strength. So that means that possibly, We could do that kind of thing to improve our teams if we included men in, well, what would it be? Would it be a training program? Would it be just coaching? Maybe this could be the job for a coach can certainly watch. The behavior of the team can notice, for instance, for that second attribute, is the discussion. Brian (17:54) Ha Linda Rising (18:10) Does that involve everybody equally? That could be a first step. And to encourage the growth in that direction. So one of the experiments that was done to follow on with that was to try to get male members of the team who didn't do well, you can actually measure social perceptiveness. And you mentioned autism, one of the tests. for autism is called reading the mind in the eyes. And with that test, you can show that people are better than others. And so maybe this could help us identify people who might benefit from this experimental approach. And that is to have something like, you know, I'm a patterns fan. So a collection of patterns that we used to talk about back in the day was written by Joshua Kerievsky and it was for running a study group where you read a book together a chapter at a time and you talk about it. So in the experiment the hypothesis was that reading a book together would improve the theory of mind or the social perceptiveness if it were a book that was fiction. Brian (19:37) Huh. Linda Rising (19:37) It's a story. A story. There's a hero and a beautiful princess and an adventurer and a bad guy and a good guy. in reading that, you learn to identify with the characters. And you talk about it. What was the character feeling when the handsome prince ran in to rescue the what was he thinking? Brian (19:39) Yeah. Linda Rising (20:05) So in a structured study group situation like that, reading fiction together and the results so far are positive but not enormous. It does help. It does help. Brian (20:20) Yeah. Yeah, I can see that, because you're trying to collectively interpret and you're getting a peek into someone else's mind of how they might interpret a situation and that can help you to interpret other situations. Yeah, I can see that. Linda Rising (20:23) May not. Yeah! Yeah, especially if someone was not in the habit of doing that. There are a lot of people who say, I've never even stopped to think about how the other members of my team are feeling. Brian (20:43) Yeah. Linda Rising (20:56) So attached to all of this is an enormous project that Google also started called Project Aristotle. And their idea was we wanna know what the secret is, what makes great teams. And they looked at everything. They spent years. mean, Google collects data, data they've got. and statisticians and analysts, they got it. And they spent years collecting and analyzing. And the summary at the end of all that was they found nothing. Brian (21:38) Hahaha Linda Rising (21:40) Did you read that? Did you read about that study? Yeah. Brian (21:44) I I'm familiar with that study. I really like what they did. Because when you have that kind of data available to you across cultures, across business units, it was an ambitious kind of study. I'm really thankful that they did it because I think they had some good findings there that came out of that as well. you're right. Linda Rising (21:52) Yeah! Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, they didn't find anything. Brian (22:12) Right, they thought it was gonna be, you know, it's a skill, it's the right mix of skills that makes it a high performing team or expertise and none of that really had a bearing. Yeah. Yeah. Linda Rising (22:15) Get off! And what was interesting about all of this is it sort of all came together because the folks at Google kind of looked over and said, well, look at what these folks at MIT are doing. And they said, maybe we're just not looking at the right thing. And they had talked about this social perceptiveness and what is that anyway? And it was kind of serendipity at about this time. Amy Edmondson wrote a book called The Fearless Organization, and it was about something she called psychological safety. And it was bigger than what the folks at MIT had identified. This has, I am free, I feel safe. Well, that would mean that you could speak up in a discussion and that would make the discussion more, okay, now we would think about what, I mean, what she talked about kind of put a big blanket around all of it and said, hey, I think we might be all talking about this. And the folks at Google said, well, you know, that makes sense. Maybe that's what we're looking for. And how do we do it? How do we do this? So your listeners might wanna just wander out to the Google site because now Google's been very transparent about this. How do you make this work? How do you bring about this psychological safety? How do you get people feel free to talk and to discussion? How do you help people be aware? of what other people are feeling. And they've got a whole raft of suggestions for managers, suggestions for team members, for, you know, and they're really all singing the same song. It's about this awareness of others, feeling that you are safe and that thinking about what other people are thinking. can lead your team to behave in more intelligent way. Brian (24:41) That's so, that's awesome. Right, right. Linda Rising (24:41) It's kind like a miracle. It's like a miracle. It all just came together. They weren't planning that. know, here at MIT, going one direction, Google going another direction. Here's Amy Edmondson at Harvard, and that it all kind of came together. Brian (24:48) That's awesome. You came together now. Yeah, Amy Edmondson is definitely one of my heroes. we've tried to get her on. We tried to get her to come on, but I know that there's layers to get to people like that. so if anyone's listening and has an end to Amy Edmondson, tell her that this is a welcome, this is a psychologically safe podcast to come on. We'd love to have her, but yeah. Linda Rising (25:07) Yeah. Well, yeah. think she did go out and talk to Google. I think there's a Google talk about psychological safety. So they did have her come in and give them some ideas, some suggestions or yeah. And she's on to failure now because her book, After Fearless Organization, which was about psychological safety, the one that, in fact, I just finished it is about failure. Brian (25:44) Yeah. That, Linda Rising (25:59) and their case studies of failures and what can you do about failure and yeah but anyway so she she's on she's she's on to whatever but yeah. Brian (26:07) That's awesome. Yes, she does great research and it's it's chock full in her book So I highly recommend her writing to anyone who's listening if that if this interests you Yeah, definitely read Amy Edmondson's work. You'll really enjoy it Linda Rising (26:14) Yeah Yeah. So, and if you do, then the story is not over, it's still going, which is, not just Amy Edmondson, but there's a fellow named Kevin Dunbar. This is not Robin Dunbar who did the 150 is kind of the magic number. This is a different Dunbar, same last name, but he did a lot of studies about thinking and. especially in science, how do scientists think? And in particular, he was interested in failure. And you know that as a scientist, you propose some hypothesis and then you test it in an experiment and then you stand back and you do an analysis and you say, well, did this work out or not? And he found that some scientists don't... like it when things don't go well. What a surprise, huh? Brian (27:26) Yeah, right. Linda Rising (27:28) Yeah, and they just ignore it. They either pretend it didn't happen or they put it in a drawer saying, we'll come back and, you know, we'll look at it later. But some scientists do a really good job of accepting that failure, working with it, and building on it. saying, hey, this is something we didn't think about. Maybe we can, they, you know, and they're off and running. It doesn't slow them down at all. And it turns out that the scientists who have that characteristic, who are able to do that, are scientists in groups. and they're in groups that are intelligent. They're diverse and open. They let everybody speak. They think about what other people are thinking if they're discouraged or not with this bad result. So the characteristics of those groups of scientists who do well with failure is the same. Brian (28:22) you Linda Rising (28:40) as the groups that MIT identified, the groups that Google is trying to grow. And I think it's really what we want in Agile development. We want groups like that. Not just because we think, intelligence is what. No. We want groups that have that characteristic. We want groups that feel psychologically safe. We want groups that feel free. Brian (28:54) Yeah. Linda Rising (29:08) to express their ideas. We want groups of people who are aware of what other people are thinking. That's what we want. Brian (29:16) Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's so cool. Linda Rising (29:18) So they're all talking about the same thing. They may be using different words, but they are really, and one thing that we might wanna note right here is that all these different researchers made the same mistake in the beginning. And it's the same mistake organizations make. Is they thought in the beginning that what makes a smart team is smart people. Wrong. Not that you don't want smart people. Brian (29:48) Yeah. Right. Linda Rising (29:53) But that's just an okay thing to have. You can have a team of very smart people that doesn't have any of these other characteristics that is not intelligent as a group. So I think we really have to wake up and realize, first of all, that we're doing that, that we're valuing IQ or individual intelligence, smartness, you went to this school or you got that particular SAT score. It has nothing to do with that. It's not that there's no correlation, but it's weak, it's very weak. It's much better to have people who have these other characteristics. Brian (30:33) Yeah, let me just, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Let me connect it just a second to maybe someone who's listening who's a Scrum Master or someone like that, right? You might hear this and think, those foolish leadership people, they make these kinds of mistakes. I wouldn't make that kind of mistake. I know better than this kind of thing, right? Well, how much emphasis are you placing on whether your team knows all the details of what they should be doing in Scrum versus... helping them to know and understand each other, communicate with each other, right? How much effort and energy are you putting into those things versus the facts, right? I think that's where it can hit home for us is, these other areas, I think are, as you said, really much stronger predictors of success. And I think as Agilist, that's where we should be pouring our attention into because that's what's going to make the most significant difference. Linda Rising (31:40) Yeah. And I think since software development and I've been in it for a long time has had this really strong emphasis on smartness. We like smart people. And it's not that that's a bad thing necessarily. It's that it's not enough. So as a mathematician, you could say necessary, but not sufficient. Not even close. and that all of these researchers all said the same thing, that we thought it was going to be about smart people. We thought it was about IQ, that teams of smart people would be smart. And you and I both know that's not true. Brian (32:32) Right, right, right. I've been on some teams with some very smart people that were horrible teams. Linda Rising (32:35) Yes. Yes, yes, exactly. And I guess without belaboring it or beating it up, what's happening to me right now is that in reading about all of these different research activities, more and more things start to bubble up. that sort of are like the glue that holds all of this together. And the one that just, it just happened yesterday has to do with brainstorming. So I've been on a ramp to not, you know, I'm against brainstorming because there's plenty of evidence that it doesn't work. They've done experiments, they've said, okay, here's a group of people and they're gonna get together and they're gonna come up with ideas. Okay, we know how many ideas they came up with and whether they're any good or not. And now let's just take individuals and tell them individually, you come up with ideas and then we'll just measure. And the results are always the same, the individuals do better. So I have come up with explanations for that and I'm like, okay, well here's what. Well, I was wrong. Because in the research, it just was like an accident. I just happened to discover it in one of the papers that the groups that are intelligent, the groups that are aware, the groups that embrace failure, the groups that do well also do better at brainstorming. Why is that? Well, because everybody feels free to talk. Everybody feels psychologically safe. Everybody's aware of how other people are feeling and that impacts how they come up with ideas or think about things that other people suggest. So as a group, they do superbly at brainstorming. So it's not the brainstorming, it's the group and how they... Brian (34:43) Yeah. Ha Linda Rising (34:48) get in a room together and discuss things and share ideas. And so, you know, I hate to say this is gonna be the answer to all our prayers. And of course we still don't, we're still working on, well, how do you do this? How do you make this happen? And I remember a story. It's in fact, it's in one of the documents, I'm trying to think now on the Google website. It's a story of a team. Brian (34:58) Hahaha Yeah. Linda Rising (35:18) where the team leader tells the other people on the team that he has a terminal illness. And when he did that, everybody else on the team realized that they didn't really know anything about this guy. And they in turn began to share, well, I'm also having some struggles and here's my story. And going through that. cause that team to move up a notch, if you will, to become more intelligent, to be more aware, to suddenly be a little more respectful of how the discussions were. It was just telling stories about what you're going through so that everyone will be aware of how you feel, what you think is gonna be your... Brian (35:48) Yeah. Linda Rising (36:11) future in the next six months that they didn't have any training or study groups or they just told stories. Brian (36:26) They got to know each other as humans. And it's amazing how often we forget that that's who we work with. At least right now, we work with other human beings. And I hope that never changes, because that's where the best ideas, that's where the best creativity comes from. And yeah, it's fascinating, but you're absolutely right. I can see that point. Linda Rising (36:28) Yes, exactly. think for me, this is all, it's been really a hopeful journey because in the beginning, I wasn't even sure how it would go. I didn't know anything about the intelligence of groups. And in the beginning, it was all, okay, here's what MIT is doing and reading through, I mean, there were a lot of papers that I slogged through and it wasn't until about halfway through that, I discovered. Project Aristotle and I saw, this really connects. And now all these other things start to bubble up that really make a lot of sense. And of course, that it fits. It fits with Agile. It fits with the Agile message that the big things like that cause you, especially if you've had any experience with Agile, to sort of wake up and say, how do I miss this? Brian (37:50) Ha ha. Linda Rising (37:52) I should have seen this and it's news to me. So, wow, we're all still learning, I guess, aren't we? Brian (38:03) Yeah, I mean, you get presented with something like that and think, I've kind of intuitively known this all along, but I didn't have words for it. And now, now there's a vocabulary that can describe it. And I agree, right? That's exactly what it is. So yeah, you're absolutely right. Well, Linda, this is, this is such a fascinating discussion. And, you know, it's, I had no idea where, you know, group intelligence would lead us, but that it's all just fascinating. Linda Rising (38:09) Yeah Brian (38:32) the different threads of the spider web and where this kind of ends up. So I know it led you in a lot of places with your research and everything else. I really, really appreciate you sharing that with us and helping us to try to understand a little bit of the journey you've been on and kind of discovering this over the past year or so is what you said. Linda Rising (38:53) Yep. And I was going to say, anybody, I know most people don't want to spend the time reading the original research papers, and I don't blame you, that does take a lot of, you know, have a lot of investment in that. But there are some, I would call them sort of lightweight. There's some excellent, excellent Harvard Business Review articles that do a very good job of talking about. what is happening at MIT, what is happening at Google, that kind of a high-level summary, like Harvard Business Review does that like nobody else. And of course, there are TED Talks that Amy Edmondson has given, and there are all the Google Talks, of course, are also out on YouTube. And she has been to Google as well, so you can go listen to what she has to say there. So if you want to dig into this for yourself, there's a lot that you can get without having to read the book or read all the research papers. Brian (39:57) Yeah, we'll try to link to as much of this as we can in the show notes of this. So anyone who's listening, if you want to go down one of these rabbit holes like we talked about, maybe we can point the direction and say, hey, try this one. So we'll also include in the show notes some links to some of Linda's work as well so that you can find out more about her and maybe read one of her books as well and see some of the Linda Rising (40:11) Yeah! Brian (40:27) some of the insights she's already brought to this Agile community. And if you like what you heard here, I know you'll like her books as well. So Linda, thank you so much for making your time. I know it's very busy. Thank you for coming on the show. Linda Rising (40:41) It's been my pleasure. Can we close with some good wishes, some thoughts and prayers for all the people who are in Western North Carolina or in Florida who have just been two horrible disasters and are going to be a long time recovering. And that includes my good friend and co-writer Mary Lynn Mans who's in Asheville, North Carolina. So fingers crossed, prayers, good thoughts. Brian (41:11) Absolutely. I wholeheartedly concur with you on that. So I agree. Well, thanks again, Linda.

In this episode of Partnering Leadership, Mahan Tavakoli explores the concept of agility with his guest, Joshua Kerievsky, CEO of Industrial Logic and author of Joy of Agility: How to Solve Problems and Succeed Sooner. They discuss why agility is far more than speed and how leaders can hone the mindset and skillset of agility. Joshua Kerievsky provides a crisp definition of agility and shares why it highlights how agility is crucial in all aspects of business and life. He also shares balanced ways leaders can enable experimentation and learning without the hurry and pressure that leads to mistakes. Through sharing his agility mantras and powerful examples, Joshua Kerievsky makes agility accessible and practical for leaders across organizations.Actionable Takeaways:Hear how agility applies across industries and all of life. Learn the true meaning of agility beyond just speed.Understand balanced ways to experiment and adapt quickly.  Discover how to drive out toxic fear hindering your team.Master mantras like "Be quick, don't hurry" for business and life.Find out how psychological safety enables prudent risk-taking.Learn how Amazon's culture empowered an intern to override an executive.Appreciate the role leaders play in enabling organizational agility.Recommended ResourcesThe Joy of Agility by Joshua Kerievsky Testing Business Ideas by David J. Bland Connect with Joshua Kerievsky The Joy of Agility WebsiteIndustrial Logic Website Joshua Kerievksy LinkedInConnect with Mahan Tavakoli: Mahan Tavakoli Website Mahan Tavakoli on LinkedIn Partnering Leadership Website

Software design patterns were derived from the work of architect Christopher Alexander, specifically his book A Pattern Language: Towns, Buildings, Construction. This excerpt (from episode 39) addresses a problem: most software people don't know one of Alexander's most important ideas, that of "forces". SourcesChristopher Alexander et al, A Pattern Language: Towns, Buildings, Construction, 1977.Mentioned (or that I wish I'd found a way to mention)Gamma et al, Design Patterns, 2004Eric Evans, Domain-Driven Design, 2003. I also like Joshua Kerievsky's pattern-language-like description of study groups, "Pools of Insight".Brian Marick, "Patterns failed. Why? Should we care?", 2017 (video and transcript)"Arches and Chains" (video) is a nice description of how arches work.Ryan Singer, "Designing with forces: How to apply Christopher Alexander in everyday work", 2010 (video)CreditsBy Anneli Salo - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, Wikipedia Commons

Farrell describes a number of distinct roles important to the development of a collaborative circle. This episode is devoted to the roles important in the early stages, when the circle is primarily about finding out what it is they actually dislike about the status quo. In order to make the episode more "actionable", I describe the roles using Christopher Alexander's style of concentrating on opposing "forces" that need to be balanced, resolved, or accommodated. SourcesMichael P. Farrell, Collaborative Circles: Friendship Dynamics and Creative Work, 2001.Christopher Alexander et al, A Pattern Language: Towns, Buildings, Construction, 1977.Mentioned (or that I wish I'd found a way to mention)Gamma et al, Design Patterns, 2004Eric Evans, Domain-Driven Design, 2003. I also like Joshua Kerievsky's pattern-language-like description of study groups, "Pools of Insight".Brian Marick, "Patterns failed. Why? Should we care?", 2017 (video and transcript)"Arches and Chains" (video) is a nice description of how arches work.Ryan Singer, "Designing with forces: How to apply Christopher Alexander in everyday work", 2010 (video)"Rational Unified Process" (wikipedia)James Bach, “Enough About Process, What We Need Are Heroes”, IEEE Software, March 1995.Firesign Theatre, "I think we're all bozos on this bus", 1971. (wikipedia)"Bloomers" (wikipedia article about a style of dress associated with first-wave feminists).CreditsThe picture is of Dawn and me sitting on our "Stair Seat", where we observe the activity on our lawn, sidewalk, and street. Which mainly consists of birds, squirrels, and people walking dogs. But it still fits Christopher Alexander's pattern of that name.

Welcome to a transformative episode featuring the remarkable Joshua Kerievsky, where we unlock the secrets to finding joy in agility. Join us as we embark on a journey through life, business, and tech, discovering the Wooden Way to balance, resilience, and rapid adaptation. Prepare to hear about the power of combining short stories and principles as Joshua shares insights on selling the invisible. Explore the art of being poised to adapt in the face of unexpected events, as illustrated by a Richard Branson story. Say goodbye to heroics as we dive into the world of agility and ensembles, witnessing the incredible learning and interpersonal wins that arise from embracing collaboration and diversity of opinion. Discover the importance of taking responsibility for your own learning, accompanied by an intriguing "It Was All Greek to Me" story. Uncover the perils of learned helplessness and the liberating potential of rapid experimentation. But the journey doesn't end there. Join us as we explore the wisdom of Benjamin Franklin, feedback, and the art of naming, all while reflecting on the timeless significance of great books, ensembles, classical education, and "Classic Agile." Don't miss this episode where passion, agility, and wisdom collide.  Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/A-tGM6BQilc  

CEO of Industrial Logic, author of Joy of Agility Episode page with video, links, transcript and more Joining us for Episode #475 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is Joshua Kerievsky, the founder and CEO of Industrial Logic, one of the oldest and most well-respected agile consultancies on the planet.  Since 1996, Joshua and his global network of colleagues have helped people in teams across many industries leverage the wisdom and power of modern product development methods. An early pioneer and practitioner of Extreme Programming, Lean Software Development and Lean Startup, Joshua most recently crafted “Modern Agile” to help people and organizations benefit from a principle-based approach to agility. Joshua is passionate about helping people produce awesome outcomes via genuine agility. He is an international speaker and author of books including most recently, Joy of Agility: How to Solve Problems and Succeed Sooner. In today's episode, we discuss how “agility” doesn't strictly mean “Agile” in software. How was Joshua inspired by leaders including former Alcoa CEO Paul O'Neill? What can all kinds of organizations learn about the art of evaluating experiments in ways that lead to more improvement and greater innovation? Questions, Notes, and Highlights: What's your “origin story” when it comes to these methods? Agile is an adjective… “ready ability to move with quick, easy, grace” — resourceful and adaptable It's not just about speed, but also quality? Do you recall when you were first introduced to “Lean” — was it via “Lean Startup” early days? The Industrial Logic name? “Process” sounds bad? Why is that? Toyota – enabling bureaucracy vs. limiting bureaucracy SAFE experiments Paul O'Neill admiration – safety  2012 The Power of Habit book What does safety mean in software? The risk of mistakes — expensive $$ decision… small tests of change??? The art of evaluating experiments? Keep going? Pivot or persevere? For those who don't know, what's “agile” vs. what you describe as “agility”? This is NOT a book about software development Driving out fear like Deming? The podcast is sponsored by Stiles Associates, now in its 30th year of business. They are the go-to Lean recruiting firm serving the manufacturing, private equity, and healthcare industries. Learn more. This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network. 

As we move through 2023, the pace of disruption continues to intensify. The complexities and implications of the economic and technological landscapes are overwhelming. It is increasingly difficult to break out of short-term thinking and make the long-term strategic decisions that are now needed. Over the last few years, the word agile has been somewhat overused, but does it hold the key to unlocking the future potential of talent acquisition? My guest this week is Joshua Kerievsky, Founder and CEO of Industrial Logic and author of a new book called "The Joy of Agile". In our conversation, Joshua revisits the original definition of agile and shares six mantras to help all TA leaders during these challenging times. In the interview, we discuss: The dictionary definition of agile Working with quick, easy grace Examples of agile at work How to be more agile Being adaptable and resourceful Be quick but don't hurry. The importance of balance and driving out fear Start minimal and evolve. Adaptability The new future of work Listen to this podcast in Apple Podcasts.

As we move through 2023, the pace of disruption continues to intensify. The complexities and implications of the economic and technological landscapes are overwhelming. It is increasingly difficult to break out of short-term thinking and make the long-term strategic decisions that are now needed. Over the last few years, the word agile has been somewhat overused, but does it hold the key to unlocking the future potential of talent acquisition? My guest this week is Joshua Kerievsky, Founder and CEO of Industrial Logic and author of a new book called "The Joy of Agile". In our conversation, Joshua revisits the original definition of agile and shares six mantras to help all TA leaders during these challenging times. In the interview, we discuss: The dictionary definition of agile Working with quick, easy grace Examples of agile at work How to be more agile Being adaptable and resourceful Be quick but don't hurry. The importance of balance and driving out fear Start minimal and evolve. Adaptability The new future of work Listen to this podcast in Apple Podcasts.

As we move through 2023, the pace of disruption continues to intensify. The complexities and implications of the economic and technological landscapes are overwhelming. It is increasingly difficult to break out of short-term thinking and make the long-term strategic decisions that are now needed. Over the last few years, the word agile has been somewhat overused, but does it hold the key to unlocking the future potential of talent acquisition? My guest this week is Joshua Kerievsky, Founder and CEO of Industrial Logic and author of a new book called "The Joy of Agile". In our conversation, Joshua revisits the original definition of agile and shares six mantras to help all TA leaders during these challenging times. In the interview, we discuss: The dictionary definition of agile Working with quick, easy grace Examples of agile at work How to be more agile Being adaptable and resourceful Be quick but don't hurry. The importance of balance and driving out fear Start minimal and evolve. Adaptability The new future of work Listen to this podcast in Apple Podcasts.

In this episode, hosts Andy Cleff and Jay Hrscko chat with Joshua Kerievsky about his latest book, Joy of Agility. It reflects over two decades of experimenting, learning, unlearning, and reflecting on the nature of agility. Joy of Agility features 6 powerful agile mantras and over 100 unforgettable stories of real people, teams, and organizations that made slow and awkward things faster and easier, solved difficult problems by being readily resourceful, and adapted to change with speed and grace. This book is a guide meant for people in any profession who aspire to be agile. Links https://www.industriallogic.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuakerievsky/ https://joyofagility.com/ https://twitter.com/joshuakerievsky YadaYada  If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a review, a rating, or leave comments on iTunes, Stitcher or your podcasting platform of choice. It really helps others find us.  Much thanks to the artist Krebs from Machine Man Records who provided us our outro music free-of-charge!  If you like what you heard, check out these links to find more music you might enjoy! If you'd like to join the discussion and share your stories,  please jump into the fray at our Discord Server! We at the Agile Uprising are committed to being totally free.  However, if you'd like to contribute and help us defray hosting and production costs we do have a Patreon.  Who knows, you might even get some surprises in the mail!

Joe Krebs speaks with Joshua Kerievsky about the Joy of Agility and his upcoming book with the same title. Joshua is a veteran agile community member since the late 1990s and an advocate of eXtreme Programming since then. Joshua will deliver a keynote at the Agile 2022 in Nashville.

In this podcast, Shane Hastie spoke to Joshua Kerievsky about his keynote at the Agile 2022 conference in July and his forthcoming book Joy of Agility. Read a transcript of this interview: https://bit.ly/39bq1df Subscribe to our newsletters: - The InfoQ weekly newsletter: https://bit.ly/24x3IVq - The Software Architects' Newsletter [monthly]: https://www.infoq.com/software-architects-newsletter/ Upcoming Events: QCon San Francisco: https://qconsf.com/ - Oct 24-28, 2022 - Oct 2-6, 2023 InfoQ Live: https://live.infoq.com/ - June 21, 2022 - July 19, 2022 - August 23, 2022 QCon Plus online: https://plus.qconferences.com/ - Nov 29 - Dec 9, 2022 QCon London https://qconlondon.com/ - March 26-31, 2023 Follow InfoQ: - Twitter: https://twitter.com/InfoQ - LinkedIn: https:// www.linkedin.com/company/infoq - Facebook: https://bit.ly/2jmlyG8 - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/infoqdotcom/ - Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/infoq

Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. About Joshua Kerievsky Joshua founded his company (Industrial Logic) from his studio apartment in NYC in 1996. It began as a lifestyle company, which meant he was able to pursue his craft while helping clients. He gradually grew the company and today they help organizations around the world. Joshua is also an international speaker and is regularly invited to speak and visit many conferences. You can link with Joshua Kerievsky on LinkedIn and connect with Joshua Kerievsky on Twitter.  Here you can find Joshua's company, Industrial Logic, and their blog. For more on the Joy of Agility, check out the book's website.

Join Murray Robinson and Shane Gibson in a conversation with Joshua Kerievsky about his new book “Joy of Agility”. In this podcast we talk about the poor state of agile today. Commodification, fake agile, dark scrum and water-scrum-fall.  Real agility should be a joy to work in. Agility doesn't mean process frameworks, it means moving with quick, easy grace and being quick, resourceful, and adaptable. Use mantras and stories to get the message across. Be quick but don't hurry. Be poised to adapt. Be balanced and graceful.   Listen to the podcast on your favourite podcast app: | Spotify | Apple Podcasts | iHeart Radio | PlayerFM | Amazon Music | Listen Notes | TuneIn |    Connect with Joshua via Linkedin , Murray via email or Shane in the Twitter-sphere  @shagility.   The No Nonsense Agile podcast is sponsored by: Simply Magical Data

Introducción a Test Driven Development. Historia, orígenes, explicación del concepto y consejos para iniciarse.Extremme Programming Explained by Kent Beck: https://amzn.to/3tbsTL6Refactoring by Martin Fowler: https://amzn.to/3nDe17fRefactoring to patterns by Joshua Kerievsky https://amzn.to/338eYLwhttp://www.joantolos.com

Joshua Kerievsky shares the four principles of Modern Agile and how they can help you find better ways of working and achieve better business outcomes. The post MBA212: Transforming Your Work with Modern Agile appeared first on Mastering Business Analysis.

Das agile Manifest ist 2001 entstanden und mittlerweile Leitbild und Standard für die agile Softwarenentwicklung geworden. Seit dem ist viel passiert und das agile Manifest hängt trotzdem immer im Jahr 2001 fest. 2015 fragt sich Joshua Kerievsky ob die Werte aus dem Agilen Manifest noch aktuell sind und brachte Modern Agile ins Leben. Was Modern Agile genau ist und woraus es besteht erklärt uns Thomas Much. https://www.modernagile.org https://www.amazon.de/Accelerate-Software-Performing-Technology-Organizations/dp/1942788339/ https://www.amazon.de/Unicorn-Project-Developers-Disruption-Thriving/dp/1942788762/ https://www.amazon.de/Testing-Business-Ideas-David-Bland/dp/1119551447/

In this Episode, Diana joined Shahin to talk about Agile Fluency and other related topics. We conversed about and around the following topics: Agile Fluency® Model (Resources, Community & Game); and it's reference Language Fluency  Group coaching compared to Individual coaching Retrospective Facilitator Gathering & Open Space Technology Continuous Learning & Continuous Improvement; Advice and Tools for newer people to Agile Coaching in the Zones & Improvement Kata We referred to and/or mentioned the following people: Rebecca Wirfs-Brock - Linda Rising - Esther Derby - Klaus Leopold (LeanOnAgile Show with Klaus) - Joshua Kerievsky - Ward Cunningham - Norman Kerth - Allison Pollard - Alistair Cockburn - Ron Jeffries - Arlo Belshee - Martin Fowler - James Shore We cited the following resources: By Diana & Co-Authors: Agile Retrospectives: Making Good Teams Great (Amazon US - Amazon CA) Liftoff: Start and Sustain Successful Agile Teams (Amazon US - Amazon CA) The Five Rules of Accelerated Learning (LeanPub) By Other Authors: Company-wide Agility with Beyond Budgeting, Open Space & Sociocracy: Survive & Thrive on Disruption - Jutta Eckstein & John Buck (Amazon US - Amazon CA) Project Retrospective: A Handbook for Team Reviews - Norman Kerth (Amazon US - Amazon CA) Love is Letting Go of Fear - Gerald Jamposky (Amazon US - Amazon CA) Checklist Manifesto - Atul Gawande (Amazon US - Amazon CA) For more details please visit http://podcast.leanonagile.com. Twitter: twitter.com/LeanOnAgileShow  LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/lean-on-agile

We discuss Mob Programming with Joshua Kerievsky (https://twitter.com/JoshuaKerievsky) including topics like multi-mobbing, process simplicity, production monitoring, and mob programming ROI. Video and show notes: https://youtu.be/zqiuKWSXpN0 

Richard Kasperowski interviews Joshua Kerievsky. Joshua is the creator and steward of the Modern Agile movement, CEO of Industrial Logic, and the author of the award-winning book, Refactoring to Patterns. He tells us the story of how he grew Industrial Logic from a single-person company into a global team of experts. A little tip – he first turned it into an exciting duo! When you finish listening to the episode, connect with Joshua on Twitter at https://twitter.com/joshuakerievsky and LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuakerievsky/. Read the full transcript at kasperowski.com/podcast-35-joshua-kerievsky/

In this episode, we share more insights from Joshua Kerievsky's appearance on the Agile Online Meetup. The session was entitled, "Are you Quick?". He talks about how we need to be quick but, not hasty. The value delivery is important at a high speed. Joshua Kerievsky is the CEO of Industrial Logic. https://www.industriallogic.com/ https://twitter.com/JoshuaKerievsky https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuakerievsky/ --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/tom-henricksen/support

In this episode, we share some insights from Joshua Kerievsky appearance on the Agile Online Meetup. The session was entitled, "Are you Quick?". He talks about how we need to be quick but, not hasty. The value delivery is important at a high speed. Joshua Kerievsky is the CEO of Industrial Logic. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/tom-henricksen/support

Craig and Tony are at YOW! Conference in Brisbane and catch up with Joshua Kerievsky, CEO of Industrial Logic and founder of Modern Agile and they talk about: Episode 20: Lean Start-ups with Joshua Kerievsky Industrial Logic and the Extreme Programming Playing Cards If you are a consulting company and don’t have your hands dirty … Continue reading →

Rob Fitzpatrick on The Art of Product, Joshua Kerievsky on Being Human, Marty Cagan on Build by Drift, Jutta Eckstein and John Buck on Agile Uprising, and Jocelyn Goldfein on Simple Leadership. I’d love for you to email me with any comments about the show or any suggestions for podcasts I might want to feature. Email podcast@thekguy.com. This episode covers the five podcast episodes I found most interesting and wanted to share links to during the two week period starting June 24, 2019. These podcast episodes may have been released much earlier, but this was the fortnight when I started sharing links to them to my social network followers. ROB FITZPATRICK ON THE ART OF PRODUCT The Art of Product podcast featured Rob Fitzpatrick with hosts Ben Orenstein and Derrick Reimer. They talked about Rob’s book, The Mom Test. He wrote it for “super-introverted techies” like himself but found it resonated with a wider audience. He explained that one of the reasons he self-published the book is because, when he took it to a publisher, they wanted him to increase the word count simply because they believed, with no evidence, that business books below 50,000 words don’t sell. The hosts asked Rob to describe “The Mom Test” in his own words. He described how, just as you shouldn’t ask your mom whether your business is a good idea because she’s biased, you need to be careful when asking anyone whether they think your business is a good idea. This, he says, puts the burden on them to tell you the truth. Instead, he says you should put the burden on yourself of coming up with questions that are immune to bias, so immune that even your mom would give you an unbiased answer. Rob talked about how the value of customer conversations is proportional to how well the problem you are trying to solve is defined. For products like Segway or Uber or a video game, asking customers questions about the problems they want solved is not as effective as it would be when the product is enterprise software. Derrick talked about how, when The Lean Startup started becoming big, it led him to what he calls “idea nihilism” where he started to believe the idea doesn’t matter at all, it is one hundred percent the journey, and the future is unpredictable, so just build something. The next few things he built while in this mindset either did not get off the ground or led him to ask himself why he built a business he hated. Eventually, he concluded that the idea matters a lot. Apple Podcasts link: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/90-the-mom-test-with-rob-fitzpatrick/id1243627144?i=1000440137442 Website link: https://artofproductpodcast.com/episode-90 JOSHUA KERIEVSKY ON BEING HUMAN The Being Human podcast featured Joshua Kerievsky with host Richard Atherton. What I loved about this interview is that Joshua described many of the inspirations behind the Modern Agile principles. The first principle, “make people awesome,” was inspired by Kathy Sierra and her focus on making the user awesome. They originally called it “make users awesome” and realized that there is a whole ecosystem besides the end consumers, including colleagues, management, and even shareholders, to make awesome. He clarified that the word “make” is not coercive, but about asking you what you can do to empower others. Regarding the second principle, “make safety a prerequisite,” he talked about being inspired by a story in Charles Duhigg’s The Power of Habit about Paul O’Neill and his turnaround of the hundred-year-old Alcoa corporation. Just as Amy Edmondson had connected psychological safety to physical safety in a previous podcast, Joshua connected psychological safety to product safety. He clarified that making safety a prerequisite doesn’t mean avoiding risk. Speaking about the third principle, “experiment and learn rapidly,” he told the story of the Gossamer Condor, the human-powered aircraft that was created to win the Kremer prize. The team that built the Condor engineered their work so that they could fail safely. The airplane flew two or three feet from the ground and the materials they used were expected to break and be repaired quickly. This let them do multiple test flights per day while their competitors would go through a waterfall process that led to large times gaps between test flights. Finally, he described the fourth principle, “deliver value continuously,” as finding a way of working where you can get feedback early and learn from it, delivering value each time. Apple Podcasts link: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/62-modern-agile-with-joshua-kerievsky/id1369745673?i=1000440221993 Website link: http://media.cdn.shoutengine.com/podcasts/4081235a-554f-4a8f-90c2-77dc3b58051f/audio/303a9472-75ef-4e7f-94e5-414a3018750a.mp3 MARTY CAGAN ON BUILD BY DRIFT The Build by Drift podcast featured Marty Cagan with host Maggie Crowley. Marty says that when he shows teams the product discovery techniques he described in his book, Inspired,he finds that they understand the value of the techniques but too often they are not allowed to use them. Instead, their leaders hand them a roadmap and tell them to just build features. When he talks to these leaders, he asks, “Why are you doing this? You know this isn’t how good companies work.” The answer, though not always admitted, is that they don’t trust the teams and, as a result, they don’t empower them. They talked about the defining characteristics of an empowered product team. First among them is for the leadership team to give the product team problems to solve rather than features to build. They also need to staff them appropriately because, if they have been running things the old way long enough, they don’t have the appropriate staff to run things the new way. For example, they may have somebody called a product manager, but they are really a project manager with a fancy title or a backlog administrator. Or they may have designers who are just adding the company color scheme and logo or engineers who are just writing code. Maggie asked what a product leader can tell a stakeholder who is used to thinking in tangible features rather than the problem to be solved. Marty says there is nothing wrong with talking about features, but it is when they get etched into a roadmap that we get into trouble because it becomes a commitment and the time spent on the feature could be better spent on figuring out how to solve the problem. They talked about Objectives and Key Results or OKRs and how they are a complete mess at most companies. The concept is simple and easy if you are already in the empowered team model, but otherwise it is theater because you’re still doing roadmaps while simultaneously trying to tell people the problems to solve. Maggie started describing how they do product discovery and development at Drift and Marty immediately pointed out how the language she used makes the work sound like it occurs in phases as it would in a waterfall project. She explained that they use this notion of phases to communicate out and he pointed out that, even if it is not currently waterfall, there is a slippery slope between speaking about phases and landing in a waterfall mindset. He talked about three things he cares about that distinguish his process from waterfall: 1) tackling the risks upfront, 2) product managers, designers, and engineers literally coming up with prototypes side-by-side instead of having hand-offs, and 3) iterating towards achieving your KPIs rather than having a phase where you’ve declared the design done and have started implementing.  Maggie asked him to enumerate what he thinks product leaders should be doing. First, he said that they need to coach their product managers to get them to competence, which he says should take no more than three months. In the case of hiring product managers straight out of school, the product leader needs to commit to multiple-times-a-week or even daily coaching. Second, he said that product leaders need to take an active role in creating product strategy. This comes back to OKRs where product leaders provide business objectives that product teams translate into problems to solve. The more product teams you have, the less you can expect those teams to be able to see the whole picture on their own, which makes it more important for product leaders to connect the dots for them. Apple Podcasts link: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/we-talked-to-product-management-legend-marty-cagan/id1445050691?i=1000440847157 Website link: https://share.transistor.fm/s/da82dbda JUTTA ECKSTEIN AND JOHN BUCK ON AGILE UPRISING The Agile Uprising podcast featured Jutta Eckstein and John Buck with host Jay Hrcsko. Jay asked Jutta how she and John came together to produce the ideas described in their book Company-wide Agility with Beyond Budgeting, Open Space & Sociocracy. Jutta and John met at an Agile conference in Atlanta and got the idea to investigate what Sociocracy could bring to Agile. They soon found themselves thinking, “That’s not really all of it,” and immediately agreed to write a book together about it. Jay started going through the book, beginning with four problem statements: Existing concepts cannot be directly applied to company strategy, structure, or process in the VUCA (volatility, uncertainty, complexity, ambiguity) world. Companies make decisions from the top down but often people at lower levels who are closer to the realities of the product or market have valuable insights that are currently ignored. There is a collision of values underlying shareholder interests in short-term profits and a focus on the needs of the customers. For a company to be agile, all departments must be agile. However, existing agile systems struggle when applied to non-engineering departments. Jutta described Beyond Budgeting. She said that it sounds like it only has relevance to the finance department, but there is a close relationship between how companies deal with finance and how they are managed. In contrast to Agile, which originated from the experiences of consultants, she says, Beyond Budgeting originated in the experiences of CFOs. She gave examples of the problems with traditional budgeting: In the first scenario, a company’s budget is set annually and, at some point during the year, a project team that had been allocated a certain budget determines that the market has changed and they no longer need a budget as large as they originally thought. She’s never seen this situation lead anyone to give the money back. In the second scenario, the market changes such that the budget needed for the company to succeed in the market exceeds the original budget and it’s too late for anything to be done. Jay brought up the distinction made in the book about the three distinct uses of budgets: 1. a target, 2. a forecast, and 3. capacity planning, and the fact that these should not be combined. Next, they discussed Open Space. John talked about the Open Spaces you often see at conferences and how they increase creative thinking and allow people’s passions to emerge. In the same way, Organization Open Space, where you can come up with a project, line up some people, and go to work, gives you passion bounded by responsibility that leads to creative companies.  John pointed out that the combination of the three concepts, as he and Jutta developed the book, started to interact and come together in ways that made it greater than the sum of its parts. That’s why they gave it a name: BOSSA nova.  Jay brought up how he has already benefitted from what he learned about Sociocracy in the book. He was able to help his colleagues learn about the difference between consent and consensus. The participants in a meeting had been locked in an argument over a maturity model when Jay restated the subject of the disagreement in terms of consent, asking if there was anyone who needed to put a stake in the ground for their position or would they all be willing to let an experiment proceed. This quickly unblocked the stalemate. John related a similar story about helping a group of professors make some decisions about forming a professional association. Apple Podcasts link: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/bossa-nova-with-jutta-eckstein-and-john-buck/id1163230424?i=1000440982639 Website link: http://agileuprising.libsyn.com/bossa-nova-with-jutta-eckstein-and-john-buck JOCELYN GOLDFEIN ON SIMPLE LEADERSHIP The Simple Leadership podcast featured Jocelyn Goldfein with host Christian McCarrick. Jocelyn talked about her career, including some time starting her own company, rising in the ranks at VMWare, arriving at Facebook at a critical time in its history, and becoming an angel investor and a venture capitalist. Christian asked about one of Jocelyn’s tweets about motivation as a management superpower. She says that engineers have a lot to offer the discipline of people management because they know how to think about systems problems and most organization problems are systems problems. On the other hand, engineers sometimes lose sight of the fact that human systems are different from programmatic systems in that they have feelings and don’t always behave rationally, but people respond to incentives. Explanations of the importance or urgency of a particular effort and attaching a bonus to it are blunt instruments, but praise and encouragement satisfies people’s needs and engenders long-term loyalty in a way that other incentives don’t. They talked about one of my favorite blog posts of Jocelyn’s on culture. She says that culture is what people do when nobody is looking. It is not people following an order. It is people knowing what to do when they don’t have orders. She says that people often think that culture is a set of traits or qualities and that you can interview for those traits to find someone who is a “culture fit.” She disagrees with this because companies are different from one another and people are obviously portable between companies.  Christian brought up the example of companies that have posters on their walls describing their culture. To Jocelyn, people are less than 10% influenced by the poster on the wall and more than 90% influenced by what successful, powerful people in the company do. When these are in conflict, you get cynicism. She talked about how compensation can be a motivator, but she noted that other people cannot judge your success by your compensation because they don’t know it, so they look for other indicators like title, scope of responsibility, influence, and confidence. So she says you need to be careful when handing out overt status symbols like titles and promotions because people will emulate the recipients of such symbols. The classic example, she says, is the brilliant jerk. When you elevate the brilliant jerk, you’re sending a message that people who succeed in this company and get ahead are jerks. The poster on the wall may not say that, but people will attach more weight to your behavior than what you or the poster say. Jocelyn talked about the undervaluing of soft skills. Engineers are taught early on that their work is fundamentally solo work and she says that is a lie because, if you want to do anything significant, if you’re going to go from rote work to meaningful creative work, the crucial skills are the soft skills we’re taught to disdain or neglect. Regarding recruiting and hiring, she talked about the tendency, at least at Facebook, to treat the phone screen like an on-site interview and create false negative rates that are too high. She did her own test where she brought in for on-site interviews a set of candidates who had previously been rejected at the phone screen stage and found that the same number got hired from her screened-out pool as were hired from the pool of candidates that passed their phone screen. She talked about the benefits and disadvantages of the centralized hiring model. On the plus side, it reduced silos, made teams friendlier to one another, and made employees become citizens of the company first and citizens of the team second. The downside of the centralized model is that there is no hiring manager taking responsibility, so the responsibility passes to the recruiter. Her preference is a blended model that is mostly centralized but with hiring managers taking responsibility and receiving rewards and praise for taking that responsibility. I loved what Jocelyn had to say about diversity and inclusion. She said that when we’re working at these high-growth companies, we’re desperately seeking to hire, we’re interviewing everybody, and we’re hiring everybody who is above our bar. When we look at the result and it is only 5% or 10% female and single digit percentages black or hispanic, some part of us is thinking that must reflect the inputs and to get a different population I would have to lower my bar and accept people who are failing. But this assumes a few things: that your interview bar is fair and that the population who applies to work at your company is the population who could apply to work at your company. If you really value having a more diverse environment, you will go looking for them. If you just sat there and only looked at applicants, you would never have hired that one signal processing engineer you needed or that one esoteric role that is not there in your applicant pool. Apple Podcasts link: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/how-to-improve-your-management-skills-jocelyn-goldfein/id1260241682?i=1000440957474 Website link: http://simpleleadership.libsyn.com/how-to-improve-your-management-skills-with-jocelyn-goldfein FEEDBACK Ask questions, make comments, and let your voice be heard by emailing podcast@thekguy.com. Twitter: https://twitter.com/thekguy LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keithmmcdonald/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thekguypage Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_k_guy/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheKGuy Website:

> Sign Up For Our Newsletter: http://www.firsthuman.com/being-human-newsletter/In this week's episode of Being Human I interview Joshua Kerievsky, the originator of Modern Agile and CEO of leading agile training and coaching group Industrial Logic. With occassional contributions from his dogs, we talk:- The difference between a principle-oriented vs a practice-oriented approach to Agile- How Paul O'Neill's turnaround of aluminium giant Alcoa led him to make safety a prerequisite in his philosophy- The true essence of agility- How the wiki creator Ward Cunningham still inspires him todayEnjoy!http://modernagile.org/https://www.industriallogic.com/

> Sign Up For Our Newsletter: http://www.firsthuman.com/being-human-newsletter/In this week's episode of Being Human I interview Joshua Kerievsky, the originator of Modern Agile and CEO of leading agile training and coaching group Industrial Logic. With occassional contributions from his dogs, we talk:- The difference between a principle-oriented vs a practice-oriented approach to Agile- How Paul O'Neill's turnaround of aluminium giant Alcoa led him to make safety a prerequisite in his philosophy- The true essence of agility- How the wiki creator Ward Cunningham still inspires him todayEnjoy!http://modernagile.org/https://www.industriallogic.com/

> Sign Up For Our Newsletter: http://www.firsthuman.com/being-human-newsletter/In this week's episode of Being Human I interview Joshua Kerievsky, the originator of Modern Agile and CEO of leading agile training and coaching group Industrial Logic. With occassional contributions from his dogs, we talk:- The difference between a principle-oriented vs a practice-oriented approach to Agile- How Paul O'Neill's turnaround of aluminium giant Alcoa led him to make safety a prerequisite in his philosophy- The true essence of agility- How the wiki creator Ward Cunningham still inspires him todayEnjoy!http://modernagile.org/https://www.industriallogic.com/

Mary and Tom Poppendieck on The Modern Agile Show, Daniel Mezick on Agile Uprising, Jennifer Tu, Zee Spencer, Thayer Prime, and Matt Patterson on Tech Done Right, James Colgan on This Is Product Management, and Matt Kaplan on Build by Drift. I’d love for you to email me with any comments about the show or any suggestions for podcasts I might want to feature. Email podcast@thekguy.com. This episode covers the five podcast episodes I found most interesting and wanted to share links to during the two week period starting March 18, 2019. These podcast episodes may have been released much earlier, but this was the fortnight when I started sharing links to them to my social network followers. MARY AND TOP POPPENDIECK ON THE MODERN AGILE SHOW The Modern Agile Show podcast featured Mary and Tom Poppendieck with host Joshua Kerievsky. Recorded at the ScanAgile 2018 conference in Helsinki, Mary and Tom talked about their keynote on proxies and permissions. Inspired by Bret Victor’s statement that creators need an immediate connection to what they create, Tom and Mary presented on how the most effective teams are autonomous, asynchronous teams that are free of the proxies and permissions that separate creators from their creations.  This led to a discussion of lean thinking and Mary pointed out that the interesting thing about lean is that fast and safe go together. She gave the example of a construction site where nothing slows things down more than the occurrence of an accident. Mary talked about how Jeff Bezos is a good early example of someone who understood that if you want to get really, really big, you need to have autonomous agents acting independently and thinking for themselves. iTunes link: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/interview-with-mary-and-tom-poppendieck/id1326918248?i=1000407584120&mt=2 Website link: https://github.com/modernagile/podcast/blob/master/ModernAgileShow_26_Interview_with_Mary_and_Tom_Poppendieck.mp3 DANIEL MEZICK ON AGILE UPRISING The Agile Uprising podcast featured Daniel Mezick with hosts Jay Hrcsko and Brad Stokes. Daniel told the story of how the OpenSpace Agility movement was born from ideas he brought to a Scrum Gathering in Paris in 2013 under the name Open Agile Adoption.  He described Open Space as an invitational, all-hands meeting format in which there is an important issue, no one person has the answer, and there is an urgency to reach a decision. The Open Space format then creates the conditions for high performance through self-organization. Brad brought up that he imagines that OpenSpace Agility can be terrifying to some leaders. Daniel noted that the fear is due to the fact that we have failed the executive leadership of the largest organizations. In the name of “meeting them where they’re at,” we’ve traded away our principles and values and haven’t taught them anything in exchange. Daniel says, “Self-management scales. Not the framework.” This echoes Mary Poppendieck’s comments from the Modern Agile Show on how self-managing, autonomous, asynchronous agents are the only way to scale. Using Scrum as an example, Daniel said that, for the Product Owner to be successful, everyone in the organization must respect his or her decisions. If you do that, he says, you will immediately get culture change because you’ve refactored the authority distribution schema. iTunes link: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/openspace-agility-with-daniel-mezick/id1163230424?i=1000430511928&mt=2 Website link: https://agileuprising.libsyn.com/podcast/openspace-agility-with-daniel-mezick JENNIFER TU, ZEE SPENCER, THAYER PRIME, AND MATT PATTERSON ON TECH DONE RIGHT FROM TABLE XI The Tech Done Right podcast featured Jennifer Tu, Zee Spencer, Thayer Prime, and Matt Patterson with host Noel Rappin. Noel started by asking the guests what they thought the biggest mistake people make when trying to hire developers is. Thayer said, “One of the biggest mistakes anybody makes in hiring is hiring people they like and that they want to work with because they’re nice as opposed to hiring against a spec of what the worker is supposed to be doing.” This comment matches my own experience because this practice was rampant on previous teams of mine. Jennifer asked Matt how his company attracts candidates and he described using their current employee’s networks. Thayer called this the number one diversity mistake that all companies make.  Noel asked about what to do at the end of the process where you need to go from multiple opinions you need to turn into a single yes/no decision. Jennifer has everyone write down their impressions before they talk to anyone else and write down specifically what they observed to support the conclusion you come to. This is how I always do it, but I’m always surprised at how few teams practice this. Noel asked about good and bad uses of interview time. I loved Jennifer’s example of what a bad use of time it is to say, “Tell me about yourself.” Sometimes I have candidates jump into providing this kind of information even though I hadn’t asked. Such people steer the interview into a well-prepared speech of all their best qualities that doesn’t give you a full picture of the candidate. Thayer then made a comment about the tendency of interviewers to try to make the candidates sweat. I agree with Thayer that this is usually the exact opposite of what you want if you’re trying to make the interview as much like the actual job experience as possible. iTunes link: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/episode-56-developer-hiring/id1195695341?i=1000430735771&mt=2 Website link: https://www.techdoneright.io/56 JAMES COLGAN ON THIS IS PRODUCT MANAGEMENT The This Is Product Management podcast featured James Colgan with host Mike Fishbein. James is a product manager for Outlook Mobile, which has 100 million monthly active users. James talked about his strategy for user growth being to make a product that is trusted by IT and loved by users. This led to their measures of success, such as usage and love for the product, measured by things like app store rating. James gave a great example of doing user research to create a product that is loved globally rather just in certain geographies. They did research in Asia and found drastic differences in the relationship between personal time and work time. They found North Americans and Europeans kept a strong delineation between work and personal time, but they found significant overlap between personal and work time among Asian customers. The data-driven nature of the product decisions payed dividends in both choosing the right features to work on and avoiding the wrong ones. They got the idea that they wanted to improve the ease of composing emails, but after looking at their instrumentation, they found that the average session length was 22 seconds. So instead they focused on consumption of emails over composition. iTunes link: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/188-listening-to-users-at-scale-is-product-management/id975284403?i=1000430581654&mt=2 Website link: https://www.thisisproductmanagement.com/episodes/listening-to-users-at-scale/ MATT KAPLAN ON BUILD BY DRIFT The Build by Drift podcast featured Matt Kaplan with host Maggie Crowley. Matt talked about how the book Creativity Inc. by Pixar founder Ed Catmull inspired him to see the similarities between creating products and telling stories. He says that every great story has a protagonist (the target user), starts with tension (the problem the product is trying to solve), has an end state (the vision for solving the user’s problem), has a core belief (the product differentiators), and consists of a sequence of events to get to that end state (the work we need to do to get the users from the tension to the end state). Maggie asked what the benefits are of thinking about products in this way and he explained that product management is about solving problems and telling stories. Stories could be used to convince salespeople that you’re doing the right thing, to tell engineers about what they’re going to build, or to tell customers about what your team has built. iTunes link: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/build-19-how-great-products-are-like-great-stories/id1445050691?i=1000430866513&mt=2 Website link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swz0TnLwbrA&list=PL_sQbSaZtRqCn6JJSkjma79c8c4bLdaJH&index=4&t=0s FEEDBACK Ask questions, make comments, and let your voice be heard by emailing podcast@thekguy.com. Twitter: https://twitter.com/thekguy LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keithmmcdonald/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thekguypage Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_k_guy/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCysPayr8nXwJJ8-hqnzMFjw Website:

Guest: Joshua Kerievsky @JoshuaKerievsky Full show notes are at https://developeronfire.com/podcast/episode-394-joshua-kerievsky-accelerating-awesome

Episode 29 of the Modern Agile Show features Joshua Kerievsky discussing Retrospectives. He tells a story of a team's iteration retrospectives and how the same problem kept coming up, with no resolution in sight. Finally, by making it safe for an individual to speak up, he was able to help the person get past a problem. This reveals a need for a fabulous tool by Norm Kerth, the author of Project Retrospectives: A Handbook for Team Reviews. The tool helps teams assess how safe they feel to speak up. Using this tool, before a retrospectives begins, is a valuable way to understand what people are comfortable to say or not say and it can reveal when a team has a psychological safety issue.

My guest today is Joshua Kerievsky, the CEO of Industrial Logic, a Modern Agile consultancy. He has also started the Modern Agile community and has been a prominent figure in the agile community since the early days. His background is in software, but through his experience in agile methods, he has worked on a much broader range than just the software. We walk through some of Joshua's history and talk a bit about how that came out in the form of Modern Agile community. We'll finish with a topic of curiosity, which - according to Joshua - is a superpower.

In this podcast Shane Hastie, Lead Editor for Culture & Methods, spoke to Joshua Kerievsky CEO of Industrial Logic and Heidi Helfand Director of Engineering Excellence at Procore Technologies and author of the book Dynamic Reteaming about their talk High Performance via Psychological Safety Why listen to this podcast: • You cannot have a high performing team unless you have psychological safety • Creating a safe environment is hard, and it must go beyond just lip service • Take the time to have crucial conversations early rather than later • The quality of the products we produce is a direct reflection of the quality of the conversations we have in our teams

Joshua Kerievsky (@joshuakerievsky) joined me (@RyanRipley) to discuss Modern Agile at the AgileIndy Conference in Indianapolis, Indiana. [featured-image single_newwindow=”false”]Joshua Kerievsky Presenting Modern Agile[/featured-image] Joshua is the founder and CEO of Industrial Logic, a pioneering Extreme Programming/Lean consultancy that radically improves the software development capabilities of organizations around the globe. Today, he leads an effort to modernize Agile by removing outdated practices and leveraging the best of what the software community and other industries have learned about achieving awesome results. Modern agile practitioners work to Make People Awesome, Make Safety A Prerequisite, Experiment & Learn Rapidly and Deliver Value Continuously. Joshua is an international speaker and author of the best-selling, Jolt Cola-award-winning book, Refactoring to Patterns, numerous Agile eLearning courses, and popular articles like Anzeneering, Sufficient Design and Stop Using Story Points. In this episode you'll discover: How Modern Agile has improved on past practices to help make teams awesome Why safety is critical to agility, and how without safety your practices and methodologies are pointless The role that continuous learning plays in an organization Links from the show: Industrial Logic Modern Agile AgileIndy Conference Lean Startup by Eric Ries The Fifth Discipline by Peter Senge Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg [callout]Most startups fail. But many of those failures are preventable. The Lean Startup is a new approach being adopted across the globe, changing the way companies are built and new products are launched. Eric Ries defines a startup as an organization dedicated to creating something new under conditions of extreme uncertainty. This is just as true for one person in a garage or a group of seasoned professionals in a Fortune 500 boardroom. What they have in common is a mission to penetrate that fog of uncertainty to discover a successful path to a sustainable business. Click here to purchase on Amazon.[/callout] [reminder]What are your thoughts about this episode? Please leave them in the comments section below.[/reminder] Want to hear a podcast about the getting started with speaking at technical conferences? — Listen to my conversation with Don Gray, Tim Ottinger, Amitai Schleier, and Jason Tice on episode 32. We discuss how to write a compelling abstract, what track reviewers are looking for in a submission, and how to give yourself the best change of getting selected. One tiny favor.  — Please take 30 seconds now and leave a review on iTunes. This helps others learn about the show and grows our audience. It will help the show tremendously, including my ability to bring on more great guests for all of us to learn from. Thanks! This podcast is brought to you by Audible. I have used Audible for years, and I love audio books. I have three to recommend: Agile and Lean Program Management by Johanna Rothman Scrum: The Art of Doing Twice the Work in Half the Time by Jeff Sutherland The Lean Startup by Eric Ries All you need to do to get your free 30-day Audible trial is go to Audibletrial.com/agile. Choose one of the above books, or choose between more than 180,000 audio programs. It's that easy. Go to Audibletrial.com/agile and get started today. Enjoy! The post AFH 066: Modern Agile with Joshua Kerievsky [PODCAST] appeared first on Ryan Ripley.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode #1 Why Modern Agile? A brief guide to Modern Agile's four principles. Who is Joshua Kerievsky? A "Make People Awesome" story from Tom DeMarco's classic book, Slack.

Joshua Kerievsky is the founder and CEO of Industrial Logic, as well as the author of the award-winning book Refactoring to Patterns. In this episode, we discuss the four principles of Modern Agile and how their reach is now beyond software development.

Josh and I chat about his key note talk regarding Modern Agile.  Possibly the most influential sticker driven development project ever.   Always a pleasure chatting wth Josh and I have changed my practice to be a bit more modern. What will you do? Follow him at @JoshuaKerievsky Enjoy Bob Payne

Våra värdar åker till Agile2016 i Atlanta och släpper med anledning av detta en serie korta specialavsnitt. Det har blivit onsdag och vi packar in maximala antalet sessioner. Joshua Kerievsky håller konferensens andra keynote, och våra uppdrag löses som vanligt med bravur.

Support the shows at devchat.tv/kickstarter!   01:45 - Michele Titolo Introduction Twitter Blog Reddit Women Who Code Ruby Rogues Episode #147: APIs That Don't Suck with Michele Titolo 02:26 - Deconstructing and Decoupling Reuse Goals 08:36 - Having Seams in Your Code to Avoid Conflict 8 Patterns to Help You Destroy Massive View Controller 11:35 - The Deconstructing Mindset (Finding Reuse Patterns) The Rule of Three Inheritance 17:48 - The Decorator Pattern 18:43 - Categories 21:34 - Sharing UI (User Interface) Codes 23:55 - Mechanics of Sharing Code Between Apps Jeffrey Jackson: Private Cocoapods CocoaPods Guide: Podspec Syntax Reference 29:02 - Lessons Learned: Easy Ways/Patterns to Know When to Break Up Small Functionalities Separate as Soon As Possible Do a Local Pod Using the Path Option (Path is Your Friend!) CocoaPods Guide: Private Pods Have a Good Code Review Process 33:23 - Cocoapods: Commit to Source or Not? 39:59 - Team Collaboration Spotify [YouTube] Kent Beck: Software G Forces: The Effects of Acceleration Picks Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code by Martin Fowler (Pete) Working Effectively with Legacy Code by Michael Feathers (Pete) Refactoring To Patterns by Joshua Kerievsky (Pete) WWDC 2010 Session 138: API Design for Cocoa and Cocoa Touch (Andrew) [Slides] Michele Titolo: Cocoa Design Patterns in Swift (Andrew) The Cocotron (Andrew) Matt Gallagher: Design of a multi-platform app using The Cocotron (Andrew) Zombie Monkie by Tallgrass Brewing Company (Jaim) Getting out and participating in programming language communities (Chuck) The Earthsea Cycle Series Book Series by Ursula K. Le Guin (Chuck) The Pixar Touch by David A. Price (Chuck) 8 Patterns to Help You Destroy Massive View Controller (Michele) Artsy - iOS at Scale - objc.io issue #22 (Michele)

Support the shows at devchat.tv/kickstarter!   01:45 - Michele Titolo Introduction Twitter Blog Reddit Women Who Code Ruby Rogues Episode #147: APIs That Don't Suck with Michele Titolo 02:26 - Deconstructing and Decoupling Reuse Goals 08:36 - Having Seams in Your Code to Avoid Conflict 8 Patterns to Help You Destroy Massive View Controller 11:35 - The Deconstructing Mindset (Finding Reuse Patterns) The Rule of Three Inheritance 17:48 - The Decorator Pattern 18:43 - Categories 21:34 - Sharing UI (User Interface) Codes 23:55 - Mechanics of Sharing Code Between Apps Jeffrey Jackson: Private Cocoapods CocoaPods Guide: Podspec Syntax Reference 29:02 - Lessons Learned: Easy Ways/Patterns to Know When to Break Up Small Functionalities Separate as Soon As Possible Do a Local Pod Using the Path Option (Path is Your Friend!) CocoaPods Guide: Private Pods Have a Good Code Review Process 33:23 - Cocoapods: Commit to Source or Not? 39:59 - Team Collaboration Spotify [YouTube] Kent Beck: Software G Forces: The Effects of Acceleration Picks Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code by Martin Fowler (Pete) Working Effectively with Legacy Code by Michael Feathers (Pete) Refactoring To Patterns by Joshua Kerievsky (Pete) WWDC 2010 Session 138: API Design for Cocoa and Cocoa Touch (Andrew) [Slides] Michele Titolo: Cocoa Design Patterns in Swift (Andrew) The Cocotron (Andrew) Matt Gallagher: Design of a multi-platform app using The Cocotron (Andrew) Zombie Monkie by Tallgrass Brewing Company (Jaim) Getting out and participating in programming language communities (Chuck) The Earthsea Cycle Series Book Series by Ursula K. Le Guin (Chuck) The Pixar Touch by David A. Price (Chuck) 8 Patterns to Help You Destroy Massive View Controller (Michele) Artsy - iOS at Scale - objc.io issue #22 (Michele)

01:42 - James Montemagno Introduction Twitter GitHub Blog 02:42 - Printer Software Development 04:50 - Moving to Mobile Development CES (Consumer Electronics Show) 06:19 - Xamarin @xamarinhq [GitHub] Xamarin The iPhreaks Show Episode #081: Xamarin with Frank Krueger 08:19 - Cross-Platform Development Code Reuse 11:37 - Companies and Libraries (Sharing Libraries) NuGet 13:09 - Plugins for Xamarin Simplifying the Process (Barrier of Entry) 15:08 - Techniques for Sharing UI Elements MVVM Light MvvmCross Mike James: Code Sharing Strategies for iOS & Mac Edgecases 21:00 - Developing On the Watch with Xamarin The iPhreaks Show Episode #082: WatchKit with Carl Brown 23:52 - Android Wear vs Watch (Wearables) Synchronization Google Play Services “Should You?” Automation Committing to and Investing in a Platform Picks Smokette Elite Model SM025 Electric Smoker (Jaim) Monodraw (Andrew) The LightBlue Bean (Andrew) The Three Fives Kit: A Discrete 555 Timer (Andrew) Refactoring to Patterns by by Joshua Kerievsky (Alondo) Ray Wenderlich: iOS 8 by Tutorials (Alondo) Ready Player One by Ernest Cline (James) Strava (James) Tavour (James) graze (James)

01:42 - James Montemagno Introduction Twitter GitHub Blog 02:42 - Printer Software Development 04:50 - Moving to Mobile Development CES (Consumer Electronics Show) 06:19 - Xamarin @xamarinhq [GitHub] Xamarin The iPhreaks Show Episode #081: Xamarin with Frank Krueger 08:19 - Cross-Platform Development Code Reuse 11:37 - Companies and Libraries (Sharing Libraries) NuGet 13:09 - Plugins for Xamarin Simplifying the Process (Barrier of Entry) 15:08 - Techniques for Sharing UI Elements MVVM Light MvvmCross Mike James: Code Sharing Strategies for iOS & Mac Edgecases 21:00 - Developing On the Watch with Xamarin The iPhreaks Show Episode #082: WatchKit with Carl Brown 23:52 - Android Wear vs Watch (Wearables) Synchronization Google Play Services “Should You?” Automation Committing to and Investing in a Platform Picks Smokette Elite Model SM025 Electric Smoker (Jaim) Monodraw (Andrew) The LightBlue Bean (Andrew) The Three Fives Kit: A Discrete 555 Timer (Andrew) Refactoring to Patterns by by Joshua Kerievsky (Alondo) Ray Wenderlich: iOS 8 by Tutorials (Alondo) Ready Player One by Ernest Cline (James) Strava (James) Tavour (James) graze (James)

For this episode we recorded an interview with Joshua Kerievsky. Joshua is an early pioneer and expert in eXtreme Programming, an author and regular speaker and founder and CEO of Industrial Logic. We talk about patterns, refactoring, e-learning and some of the principles of Lean Startup. You can follow him in twitter via @joshuakerievsky. The interview was recorded at Igluu in Eindhoven.Interview by @freekl and @Mmz_Audio post-production by @mendelt Links for this podcast: Book: Refactoring to Patterns, Joshua Kerievsky, 2004. Industrial Logic elearning albums Book: Design Patterns, Gamma, Helm, Johnson & Vlissides (the 'gang of four'), 1994 Book: Refactoring, Martin Fowler, 1999 Book: Test Driven Development: By Example, Kent Beck, 2002 Presentation: The Limited Red Society, Joshua Kerievsky, 2010 Book: Delivering Happiness: A Path to Profits, Passion, and Purpose, Tony Hsieh, 2010 Book: The Lean Startup, Eric Ries, 2011 Presentation: Continuous Deployment, Timothy Fitz, 2009 Book: The Four Steps to the Epiphany, Steven Blank, 2005

David Anderson is thoughtleader on the subject of Kanban. He is the founder of the Lean Software & Systems Consortium and helped to create the Limited WIP Society. His latest book is the subject of this Podcast, which is called: Kanban, Successful Evolutionary Change For Your Technology Business. You can follow David on twitter via @agilemanager. In this episode we talk with David on his shift from the Theory of Constraints to Kanban and the benefits of visualizing the workflow and limiting Work-in-Progress. We discuss several aspects from his latest book and talk about the people and books that inspired him to write this book. David also shares his knowledge and experiences on Feature Driven Development. This Podcast was recorded in Antwerp at the Lean & Kanban 2010 Europe conference. Links for this podcast The Lean term originates from the book: The Machine That Changed the World, by James Womack, Daniel Jones and Daniel Roos. David's previous book: Agile Management for Software Engineering. Why people fail at multitasking, a short movie. 'Maintenance typically consumes about 40 to 80 percent (60 percent average) of software costs. Therefore, it is probably the most important life cycle phase.' - a quote from an article called Frequently Forgotten Fundamental Facts about Software Engineering by Robert Glass. Feature Driven Development came out as an evolution from the book Object Oriented Analysis from Peter Coad and the project management method of Jeff De Luca. It was first described in the book Java Modeling In Color. Order the game getKanban here. The Deming System of Profound Knowledge is one of the models that David mentions as a tool to improve. Watch the video where Rob Hathaway presents his case studies on Kanban at IPC Media. The people David mentions are: Donald Reinertsen, Jerry Weinberg, Kent Beck, Jon Kern, Joshua Kerievsky, Jim Shore, Steve Freeman, Elizabeth Keogh, Tim McCanna, Russell Healy and Daniel Vacanti. Learn more about the terms that are used in this Podcast: Lean, Kaizen, Scrum, Waste (muda, muri and mura), Theory of Constraints, Cumulative Flow Diagram, Cycle time, the Personal Software Process, Feature Driven Development, eXtreme Programming, Test Driven Development, the Scientific method, Classes of Service. This podcast is in English - Deze podcast is in het Engels