Podcasts about fearless organization

Dr. Amy Edmondson is the Professor of Leadership and Management at Harvard Business School, a world-renowned expert on psychological safety, and the pioneering researcher who first identified and defined the concept. She is a #1 ranked management thinker by Thinkers50 and the award-winning author of several groundbreaking books including "The Fearless Organization" and her latest work "Right Kind of Wrong: Why Learning to Fail Can Teach Us to Thrive." Her research on team learning, psychological safety, and organizational innovation has transformed how leaders approach building high-performing teams across industries worldwide.Questions for personal reflection & journalingWhat specific moments in your life have shaped your relationship with failure, and how might these experiences be limiting your growth today? Consider the learning opportunities you might be missing by avoiding certain risks.What elements create psychological safety for you in your most comfortable environments, and how might you recreate these conditions in teams you lead or participate in?How do you typically respond when someone shares a mistake or failure with you, and what would a more curiosity-driven response look like in practice?What language patterns do you use when addressing setbacks with others, and how might you better separate events (failures, mistakes, losses) from a person's identity or worth?What specific questions could you introduce in your next team meeting to invite diverse perspectives, and how might these questions shift your team's dynamic toward greater psychological safety?Download my FREE 60 minute Mindset Masterclass at www.djhillier.com/masterclassDownload my FREE top 40 book list written by Mindset Advantage guests: www.djhillier.com/40booksSubscribe to our NEW YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@MindsetAdvantagePurchase a copy of my book: https://a.co/d/bGok9UdFollow me on Instagram: @deejayhillierConnect with me on my website: www.djhillier.com

Guests: Teresa Schwab & Phyllis Collins (Ad Astra Coach Alliance)Host: Andy HuckabaIn this episode, we explore the hidden dynamics of trust in the workplace—how to define it, assess it, build it, and repair it. Teresa Schwab and Phyllis Collins join Andy Huckaba for a deep and thoughtful discussion that blends personal insight, leadership experience, and practical advice. Together, they examine how trust and psychological safety relate, how power and past experiences shape trust, and what leaders can do to create environments where trust can thrive.Defining Trust and Psychological SafetyTrust = Expectations of othersPsychological Safety = Feeling safe to take interpersonal risksThey are distinct but interconnectedHow Trust is BuiltThrough consistent, congruent, and authentic behaviorSmall “marble jar” transactions over time (inspired by Brené Brown)Reliability, presence, and alignment with stated valuesThe Role of Power and ExperiencePeople carry stories about authority into workspacesTrust in a role can be eroded by past negative experiences—even before personal interactions occurLeaders must separate themselves from the role and model trustworthy behaviorPractical Tips for Leaders to Build TrustCommunicate clearly and consistentlyInvite genuine feedback and respond constructivelyShow vulnerability and take ownership when mistakes happenLive out values and model integrity in decision-making“Trust is invisible when it's working—and painfully obvious when it's not.”“If you spend more marbles than you have, you damage the relationship.”“Power doesn't automatically get you trust—it might get you obedience.”“People don't distrust the person—they distrust the role based on past experience.”Edmondson, A. C. (1999). Psychological Safety and Learning Behavior in Work Teams.Edmondson, A. C. (2018). The Fearless Organization.Covey, S. M. R. (2006). The Speed of Trust.Mayer, R. C., Davis, J. H., & Schoorman, F. D. (1995). An Integrative Model of Organizational Trust.Brené Brown – Dare to Lead and Daring GreatlyAmy Cuddy – Presence: Bringing Your Boldest Self to Your Biggest Challenges“Trust is the conduit of influence, and the only way to establish real trust is by being present.”Visit: www.adastracoachalliance.comFollow us on LinkedIn and your favorite podcast platform for future episodes and resources.We welcome your feedback and topic suggestions!Explore more content and join the conversation online using these hashtags:#TrustInTheWorkplace#PsychologicalSafety#LeadershipDevelopment#AuthenticLeadership#ExecutiveCoaching#BuildingTrust#TeamCulture#PeopleFirst#InclusiveLeadership#GrowthBeyondBoundariesTag us @AdAstraCoachAlliance and share your thoughts or takeaways from this episode!Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):License code: 1AF9FYKW2TNQNGG1

In this episode of Partnering Leadership, Mahan Tavakoli speaks with Jim Detert, John L. Colley Professor of Business Administration at the University of Virginia's Darden School of Business and author of Choosing Courage: The Everyday Guide to Being Brave at Work. In this conversation, Jim Detert shares how we can become more courageous by developing our courage capabilities. Jim Detert also shares how leaders can nurture a psychologically safe organizational culture, enabling and encouraging more courageous interactions and decisions at work.   Some highlights:-Why attributing courage just to historical figures can be counterproductive -The importance of being more courageous and how to develop our courage muscle-Jim Detert on the benefits of courage at work-How leaders can create a psychologically safe environment that encourages team members to speak up and contribute their best at workMentioned:-Amy Edmondson, Professor of Leadership at Harvard Business School and author of Fearless Organization and Creating Psychological Safety-Vanessa Bohns (Listen to Partnering Leadership conversation with Vanessa Bohns)-Gary Bolles (Listen to Partnering Leadership conversation with Gary Bolles)-Difficult Conversations by Bruce Patton, Douglas Stone, and Sheila Heen-Radical Candor by Kim Scott-Giving Voice to Values by Mary C. Gentile -The Silent Language Of Leaders by Carol GoldmanConnect with Jim Detert:Jim Detert WebsiteChoosing Courage on AmazonJim Detert on FacebookJim Detert on LinkedIn Connect with Mahan Tavakoli: Mahan Tavakoli Website Mahan Tavakoli on LinkedIn Partnering Leadership Website

Psychological safety at work is one of those topics everyone talks about but few truly understand. Today, we're joined by Hord Wbi, a driving force behind Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion at Rabobank. He's sharing how they're not just talking about change but embedding it into the heart of their workplace culture. If you've ever wondered how to take DEI from theory to action, this episode is for you.Rebels, lets do this! Highlights:(3:33) Rabobank's Mission and Philosophy(12:00) The Three Ships: Mentorship, Sponsorship, and Allyship(16:38) Challenges and Progress in DEI(20:20) Supporting Employee Resource Groups (ERGs)(29:10) Behavioral and Structural Inclusion(34:03) Psychological Safety at RabobankFind out more:The Fearless Organization by Amy EdmonsonTake the Aurora 360 Quiz: How Effective Is Your Company's Wellbeing Strategy? Click HereConnect with us here:Website: aurorawellnessgroup.co.ukLinkedIn: NgoziLinkedIn: ObehiAurora Company Profile 2024Book a Call here

"Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth"

What makes a team intelligent? Brian and Linda Rising explore the surprising factors that foster group intelligence, from psychological safety to diversity, backed by groundbreaking research from MIT and Google. Overview In this episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast, Brian Milner sits down with Agile thought leader Linda Rising to explore the concept of group intelligence. They dive into what makes teams intelligent, discussing the importance of diversity, psychological safety, and social perceptiveness. Using research from MIT and Google, Linda also highlights how storytelling and a growth mindset can enhance team dynamics, leading to more effective and innovative collaboration. References and resources mentioned in the show: Linda Rising Fearless Change: Patterns for Introducing New Ideas by Mary Lynn Manns & Linda Rising MIT Center For Collective Intelligence Project Aristotle The Fearless Organization by Amy C. Edmonson Amy Edmonson’s TED Talks 3 ways to better connect with your coworkers - Mark T. Rivera’s TED Talk Advanced Certified Scrum Product Owner® Advanced Certified ScrumMaster® Agile For Leaders Mountain Goat Software Certified Scrum and Agile Training Schedule Join the Agile Mentors Community Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Linda Rising is an internationally recognized consultant, speaker, and author with a Ph.D. in object-based design metrics. Known for her expertise in agile development, retrospectives, and the intersection of neuroscience and software, Linda has authored five books and numerous articles. In 2020, she received the Lifetime Achievement Award from the World Agility Forum for her impactful contributions to the industry. Auto-generated Transcript: Brian (00:00) Welcome in Agile Mentors. We're back here with you for another episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast. I am with you as I always am, Brian Milner. And I wanted to introduce you today to someone I think you're really gonna enjoy here on this episode. I have the one and only Linda Rising with me. Linda, thank you so much for coming on. Linda Rising (00:09) Okay. It is my pleasure, Brian. Thank you so much for inviting me. It's a beautiful day here in Nashville, Tennessee. Brian (00:32) In Nash Vegas, yes. I actually spent a couple years in Nash Vegas. So I know that area back in the day, back in the day, because I worked at Opryland. So that'll tell you how long ago it was. Yeah, back in the dark times, right? But Linda, for those, if anyone who might not be aware, Linda is an author. She is... Linda Rising (00:33) Yeah! wow okay Brian (00:58) really what people would call an agile luminary. She has been involved with this movement for quite a while and has really, I don't think it's too far of a stretch to say shaped the conversation around this a lot with her research and other things that she's provided. we wanted to have her on because she, well, because it's Linda Rising, right? We wanted to have her on for that, but. Recently, she spoke at the Scrum Gathering, the regional Scrum Gathering that took place in Stockholm, and her topic just sounded really fascinating. I thought it would be fascinating for us to talk about. It was a topic of group intelligence. So Linda, I'm sure there's a lot of people out there like me that when they heard that the first time thought, I have no idea what that means. What does group intelligence mean? Linda Rising (01:43) Yeah. Actually, normally when I do anything, give a keynote or an interview on a podcast or the interviewer or the person who's inviting me will say, what would you like to talk about? That's what you did. What would you like to talk about with the idea that I could come up with a list of things I was interested in that I wanted to talk about because I knew something about it. Brian (02:09) Yep, it's true. Linda Rising (02:20) But in this case, no, it was, want you to be the opening keynote for this amazing gathering in Stockholm. and by the way, we want you to talk about group intelligence. So. That was about a year ago and I thought to myself, I don't know anything about, well, maybe I do. Maybe I do know something about group intelligence. But I have spent the past year getting ready for that talk. It was just a few weeks ago and along the way, what I found was it pulled together the research around this topic. pulled together a lot of things that I have been thinking about and it is still not over. I had to give that talk, there was a date for that, but now there are little threads that, as you say, I'm following those down various rabbit holes because they're connected to other things that I'm interested in. So this turned out to be, even though I didn't pick it and I didn't know a whole lot about it, It's turned out to be a great introduction to a different way of thinking. So we know what intelligence is, I think. Don't you? Do you know you have an idea? And aren't you intelligent? Brian (03:41) That's so awesome. Well, that's a quite a loaded question, right? Linda Rising (03:53) Of course you are and and so are our listeners our listeners are intelligent and what's interesting is that the psychologists who measure that They don't really have a definition for intelligence. What they do is they can test for it So have you ever had you know an intelligence test You know, an IQ test. Have you? Have you ever had one? Brian (04:25) You know what, I don't think I ever have, but I know my wife has, my daughters have, I'm very familiar with them, but I can't point back to one to say, hey, I know what my score was. Linda Rising (04:28) I'll bet you have. Well, sometimes you're given that test at a particular point, maybe in high school, and they didn't tell you that it was an intelligence test. You just took it along with the other battery of tests that you were taking at the time. And maybe they didn't tell you, you have an IQ of 145. They didn't tell you how smart you were. Brian (04:47) Yeah. Linda Rising (05:06) but somebody, somewhere, somehow along the way, they did. They measured it. And that's without having a definition for whatever it is. So what that test does is it says you're pretty good at solving a bunch of problems. And that's what the test is. Brian (05:17) That's amazing. Linda Rising (05:32) it asks you to look at some math problems, logic problems, spatial problems, different kinds of problems, and you either solve them pretty well or not so well, and when they are finished with that, that score on that test says something about how well you do at solving those problems. And that's what they're calling intelligence. Brian (06:03) I think I see where you're going with this because to me, if we're going to try to be very precise with words on that, I would say that sounds more like education. If I know how to solve a particular kind of math problem, that's because I've been educated to learn that. It's not a measure of my... Linda Rising (06:13) Yeah. Yep, yep. And so those tests, yeah, those tests do have a bias. They're biased toward people who have a certain kind of education biased against people who maybe didn't have that kind of education. Also, it doesn't even begin to talk about music. Here I am in Music City. Doesn't talk about musical talent. Brian (06:43) Yeah Linda Rising (06:46) It doesn't talk about your ability to perform, say, some sports activity, whether you're going to be a great basketball player or a baseball player. There are a lot of things that intelligence tests don't even, they don't even think about. Now, it doesn't mean this isn't a valid exercise because those IQ tests have been around a long time and they do measure what they measure, they measure it very well. And they do correlate with a lot of performance activities. In fact, if you were hiring somebody, the absolute best thing, if you could just do one thing, would be to give them an IQ test. That correlates most strongly with any kind of performance on the job. So it's a valid test, even if it has some biases, some problems. So that's individual intelligence and we call that IQ. So now the question is, can you do that for a group or a team? Brian (07:53) Yeah. Linda Rising (08:03) Could you say this group, could we measure it somehow? And if so, would it have the same kind of validity? That is, if they do well on this test, would that mean they would do well in the workplace? If we had that, then could we use it to say, all right, this team. is really going to be great for whatever it is that we wanted them to do. Is that possible? So obviously the answer is yes, or I wouldn't be here talking about it. Yeah. So the research is fascinating and it would take a long time to actually go into it, but it was started at MIT. The organization is called the MIT Center for Collective Intelligence. and they have been doing this now for over a decade. So this is not brand new out of the box. We're not sure where this is going. This has been happening and has been happening successfully. They do have a test. They can give it to a group. And what they find is that if the group does well, that group will also do well on other, just like IQ, other kinds of things that the test measures. And so, yes, they can measure group intelligence. Brian (09:38) Very interesting. This is really fascinating. Yeah. It's fascinating. I'm going to interrupt you for just a moment because I know, and forgive me if I'm taking you off track with where you were intending to go. But I know, having heard some of your other talks in the past on agile mindset and what you've written about, I know there's kind of this fundamental idea of the fixed verse. Linda Rising (09:39) It is interesting. Yeah. No, no, no, it's okay. Brian (10:05) growth mindset and the idea of intelligence being not necessarily a thing you're born with, but really something that you have the potential to change and grow. And how does that translate then to the group environment and the group's intelligence? Linda Rising (10:23) Yeah, so that's a great lead in because the next part of it was, well, okay, so we have this test and we can give it to a group, but we'd like to tease out some attributes of teams to say, you know, the teams that do really well on this test, they all seem to have, and they found there were three things that characterized Brian (10:26) Yeah. Linda Rising (10:52) intelligent group. The first one was called social perceptiveness. That is, are the people on the group, are they able to relate to each other? If one of the persons in the groups having a struggle for some reason, are they able to pick up on that? It's kind of hard to say, well what is that social perceptiveness? and we can come back to that, but that's first on the list. The second attribute is that when they have any kind of a discussion, that everybody talks. And that's pretty easy to see, and I know that you've probably been on teams as I have, where really not everybody talked, where maybe mostly one or two Brian (11:24) Yeah. Okay. Linda Rising (11:49) You know the loud people they did all the talking and the rest of us We just kind of sat in the corner and we said well, you know, whatever Yeah We've been there. Well, have we have we have seen that and I don't know how you're gonna feel about the third one But we all are concerned about diversity Brian (12:00) Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Linda Rising (12:17) We know that diversity is an issue. All organizations are struggling with the best way to deal with that. But the third attribute has to do with the percentage of women on the team. Brian (12:34) Really? Linda Rising (12:35) So this isn't like 50-50. This doesn't mean that you should have some women. It means the more women you have, the better. Ooh. You wanna think about that one? Brian (12:38) Yeah. You know what? I would not argue with that one bit because all the women that I've had in my life have been the most intelligent people I have known. So I would wholeheartedly concur with that. We're just a bunch of knuckleheads, the guys are. So I completely... Linda Rising (12:58) Ha! Brian (13:17) You know, I'm having some fun, but you're right. I can see that, you know? Like, I could see how that would be a really distinguishing characteristics. Linda Rising (13:22) Wow! So the researchers say maybe it's really not a gender thing because women are very good at social perceptiveness. And maybe what this third attribute, and they did a lot of statistical analyses, you you have to really dig down into the statistics and we don't want to do that. Maybe this third attribute is really a reflection of the first. And then if you, and here we're going to come to your growth mindset, if you could work with the people on the team who were not women, but who were these nerdy guys, know, could you somehow have them grow, improve, get better at social perceptiveness, then that would have the same effect as having more women on the team. And that's kind of where they are right now is can you do this? Are they equivalent? Are they really measuring the same thing? But they know that somehow that's what you've got to have is this ability to read. It's called theory of mind. Read the minds of the people on the team and that typically You know, we're stereotyping here. Typically men are not as good. So can you, could you, can you grow that characteristic? Can you get better? Can you get better at that? Brian (15:06) Yeah, I'll take a slight little side trail here and say that that makes perfect sense to me because one of the things that I found when I was doing my research on neurodiversity and specifically autism was that there's a book out there that I think I've shared on the podcast before, but it's called Autism in Heels. And basically the point of the book is to really examine autism in women. And one of the key points that's made in the book is the fact that when you see statistics about autism, you'll find that there's a huge number, there's a disparity. There's a large number of men, of males that are diagnosed and a few, a smaller percentage of females. And it gives the impression when you look at the data that you might think, well, this is a male thing, right? It's something that happens much more often than male. But this book is making the point that really, Linda Rising (16:02) Yeah. Brian (16:04) the criteria that was set aside to designate whether someone was autistic or not was really geared towards how it presents in males. So women were vastly underdiagnosed and still are to this day vastly underdiagnosed. And one of the things that makes it difficult to diagnose them is women are better at masking their symptoms. very much, they adapt to the environment around them. They pick up on the people around them. Linda Rising (16:18) Yeah. Brian (16:34) and they will mask the things that maybe are naturally a part of them, but they've learned in other parts of life how to do that. And so they're applying that to their autism as well. So that makes perfect sense to me. Linda Rising (16:43) Yeah. Yep, exactly. And of course, if we want to talk about women who have this tendency or on the spectrum, we have to mention Temple Grandin, who is one of the most famous female autistics in the world. I she's done more to gain attention for this problem, and she's definitely female. yeah, it's not it's not a male thing. But you're right that what's happened is that the women have had a growth mindset and whatever they inherited or were born with, they've done a better job at learning how to adapt given what they had as a limitation, adapting to working with others and using that as a strength. So that means that possibly, We could do that kind of thing to improve our teams if we included men in, well, what would it be? Would it be a training program? Would it be just coaching? Maybe this could be the job for a coach can certainly watch. The behavior of the team can notice, for instance, for that second attribute, is the discussion. Brian (17:54) Ha Linda Rising (18:10) Does that involve everybody equally? That could be a first step. And to encourage the growth in that direction. So one of the experiments that was done to follow on with that was to try to get male members of the team who didn't do well, you can actually measure social perceptiveness. And you mentioned autism, one of the tests. for autism is called reading the mind in the eyes. And with that test, you can show that people are better than others. And so maybe this could help us identify people who might benefit from this experimental approach. And that is to have something like, you know, I'm a patterns fan. So a collection of patterns that we used to talk about back in the day was written by Joshua Kerievsky and it was for running a study group where you read a book together a chapter at a time and you talk about it. So in the experiment the hypothesis was that reading a book together would improve the theory of mind or the social perceptiveness if it were a book that was fiction. Brian (19:37) Huh. Linda Rising (19:37) It's a story. A story. There's a hero and a beautiful princess and an adventurer and a bad guy and a good guy. in reading that, you learn to identify with the characters. And you talk about it. What was the character feeling when the handsome prince ran in to rescue the what was he thinking? Brian (19:39) Yeah. Linda Rising (20:05) So in a structured study group situation like that, reading fiction together and the results so far are positive but not enormous. It does help. It does help. Brian (20:20) Yeah. Yeah, I can see that, because you're trying to collectively interpret and you're getting a peek into someone else's mind of how they might interpret a situation and that can help you to interpret other situations. Yeah, I can see that. Linda Rising (20:23) May not. Yeah! Yeah, especially if someone was not in the habit of doing that. There are a lot of people who say, I've never even stopped to think about how the other members of my team are feeling. Brian (20:43) Yeah. Linda Rising (20:56) So attached to all of this is an enormous project that Google also started called Project Aristotle. And their idea was we wanna know what the secret is, what makes great teams. And they looked at everything. They spent years. mean, Google collects data, data they've got. and statisticians and analysts, they got it. And they spent years collecting and analyzing. And the summary at the end of all that was they found nothing. Brian (21:38) Hahaha Linda Rising (21:40) Did you read that? Did you read about that study? Yeah. Brian (21:44) I I'm familiar with that study. I really like what they did. Because when you have that kind of data available to you across cultures, across business units, it was an ambitious kind of study. I'm really thankful that they did it because I think they had some good findings there that came out of that as well. you're right. Linda Rising (21:52) Yeah! Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, they didn't find anything. Brian (22:12) Right, they thought it was gonna be, you know, it's a skill, it's the right mix of skills that makes it a high performing team or expertise and none of that really had a bearing. Yeah. Yeah. Linda Rising (22:15) Get off! And what was interesting about all of this is it sort of all came together because the folks at Google kind of looked over and said, well, look at what these folks at MIT are doing. And they said, maybe we're just not looking at the right thing. And they had talked about this social perceptiveness and what is that anyway? And it was kind of serendipity at about this time. Amy Edmondson wrote a book called The Fearless Organization, and it was about something she called psychological safety. And it was bigger than what the folks at MIT had identified. This has, I am free, I feel safe. Well, that would mean that you could speak up in a discussion and that would make the discussion more, okay, now we would think about what, I mean, what she talked about kind of put a big blanket around all of it and said, hey, I think we might be all talking about this. And the folks at Google said, well, you know, that makes sense. Maybe that's what we're looking for. And how do we do it? How do we do this? So your listeners might wanna just wander out to the Google site because now Google's been very transparent about this. How do you make this work? How do you bring about this psychological safety? How do you get people feel free to talk and to discussion? How do you help people be aware? of what other people are feeling. And they've got a whole raft of suggestions for managers, suggestions for team members, for, you know, and they're really all singing the same song. It's about this awareness of others, feeling that you are safe and that thinking about what other people are thinking. can lead your team to behave in more intelligent way. Brian (24:41) That's so, that's awesome. Right, right. Linda Rising (24:41) It's kind like a miracle. It's like a miracle. It all just came together. They weren't planning that. know, here at MIT, going one direction, Google going another direction. Here's Amy Edmondson at Harvard, and that it all kind of came together. Brian (24:48) That's awesome. You came together now. Yeah, Amy Edmondson is definitely one of my heroes. we've tried to get her on. We tried to get her to come on, but I know that there's layers to get to people like that. so if anyone's listening and has an end to Amy Edmondson, tell her that this is a welcome, this is a psychologically safe podcast to come on. We'd love to have her, but yeah. Linda Rising (25:07) Yeah. Well, yeah. think she did go out and talk to Google. I think there's a Google talk about psychological safety. So they did have her come in and give them some ideas, some suggestions or yeah. And she's on to failure now because her book, After Fearless Organization, which was about psychological safety, the one that, in fact, I just finished it is about failure. Brian (25:44) Yeah. That, Linda Rising (25:59) and their case studies of failures and what can you do about failure and yeah but anyway so she she's on she's she's on to whatever but yeah. Brian (26:07) That's awesome. Yes, she does great research and it's it's chock full in her book So I highly recommend her writing to anyone who's listening if that if this interests you Yeah, definitely read Amy Edmondson's work. You'll really enjoy it Linda Rising (26:14) Yeah Yeah. So, and if you do, then the story is not over, it's still going, which is, not just Amy Edmondson, but there's a fellow named Kevin Dunbar. This is not Robin Dunbar who did the 150 is kind of the magic number. This is a different Dunbar, same last name, but he did a lot of studies about thinking and. especially in science, how do scientists think? And in particular, he was interested in failure. And you know that as a scientist, you propose some hypothesis and then you test it in an experiment and then you stand back and you do an analysis and you say, well, did this work out or not? And he found that some scientists don't... like it when things don't go well. What a surprise, huh? Brian (27:26) Yeah, right. Linda Rising (27:28) Yeah, and they just ignore it. They either pretend it didn't happen or they put it in a drawer saying, we'll come back and, you know, we'll look at it later. But some scientists do a really good job of accepting that failure, working with it, and building on it. saying, hey, this is something we didn't think about. Maybe we can, they, you know, and they're off and running. It doesn't slow them down at all. And it turns out that the scientists who have that characteristic, who are able to do that, are scientists in groups. and they're in groups that are intelligent. They're diverse and open. They let everybody speak. They think about what other people are thinking if they're discouraged or not with this bad result. So the characteristics of those groups of scientists who do well with failure is the same. Brian (28:22) you Linda Rising (28:40) as the groups that MIT identified, the groups that Google is trying to grow. And I think it's really what we want in Agile development. We want groups like that. Not just because we think, intelligence is what. No. We want groups that have that characteristic. We want groups that feel psychologically safe. We want groups that feel free. Brian (28:54) Yeah. Linda Rising (29:08) to express their ideas. We want groups of people who are aware of what other people are thinking. That's what we want. Brian (29:16) Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's so cool. Linda Rising (29:18) So they're all talking about the same thing. They may be using different words, but they are really, and one thing that we might wanna note right here is that all these different researchers made the same mistake in the beginning. And it's the same mistake organizations make. Is they thought in the beginning that what makes a smart team is smart people. Wrong. Not that you don't want smart people. Brian (29:48) Yeah. Right. Linda Rising (29:53) But that's just an okay thing to have. You can have a team of very smart people that doesn't have any of these other characteristics that is not intelligent as a group. So I think we really have to wake up and realize, first of all, that we're doing that, that we're valuing IQ or individual intelligence, smartness, you went to this school or you got that particular SAT score. It has nothing to do with that. It's not that there's no correlation, but it's weak, it's very weak. It's much better to have people who have these other characteristics. Brian (30:33) Yeah, let me just, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Let me connect it just a second to maybe someone who's listening who's a Scrum Master or someone like that, right? You might hear this and think, those foolish leadership people, they make these kinds of mistakes. I wouldn't make that kind of mistake. I know better than this kind of thing, right? Well, how much emphasis are you placing on whether your team knows all the details of what they should be doing in Scrum versus... helping them to know and understand each other, communicate with each other, right? How much effort and energy are you putting into those things versus the facts, right? I think that's where it can hit home for us is, these other areas, I think are, as you said, really much stronger predictors of success. And I think as Agilist, that's where we should be pouring our attention into because that's what's going to make the most significant difference. Linda Rising (31:40) Yeah. And I think since software development and I've been in it for a long time has had this really strong emphasis on smartness. We like smart people. And it's not that that's a bad thing necessarily. It's that it's not enough. So as a mathematician, you could say necessary, but not sufficient. Not even close. and that all of these researchers all said the same thing, that we thought it was going to be about smart people. We thought it was about IQ, that teams of smart people would be smart. And you and I both know that's not true. Brian (32:32) Right, right, right. I've been on some teams with some very smart people that were horrible teams. Linda Rising (32:35) Yes. Yes, yes, exactly. And I guess without belaboring it or beating it up, what's happening to me right now is that in reading about all of these different research activities, more and more things start to bubble up. that sort of are like the glue that holds all of this together. And the one that just, it just happened yesterday has to do with brainstorming. So I've been on a ramp to not, you know, I'm against brainstorming because there's plenty of evidence that it doesn't work. They've done experiments, they've said, okay, here's a group of people and they're gonna get together and they're gonna come up with ideas. Okay, we know how many ideas they came up with and whether they're any good or not. And now let's just take individuals and tell them individually, you come up with ideas and then we'll just measure. And the results are always the same, the individuals do better. So I have come up with explanations for that and I'm like, okay, well here's what. Well, I was wrong. Because in the research, it just was like an accident. I just happened to discover it in one of the papers that the groups that are intelligent, the groups that are aware, the groups that embrace failure, the groups that do well also do better at brainstorming. Why is that? Well, because everybody feels free to talk. Everybody feels psychologically safe. Everybody's aware of how other people are feeling and that impacts how they come up with ideas or think about things that other people suggest. So as a group, they do superbly at brainstorming. So it's not the brainstorming, it's the group and how they... Brian (34:43) Yeah. Ha Linda Rising (34:48) get in a room together and discuss things and share ideas. And so, you know, I hate to say this is gonna be the answer to all our prayers. And of course we still don't, we're still working on, well, how do you do this? How do you make this happen? And I remember a story. It's in fact, it's in one of the documents, I'm trying to think now on the Google website. It's a story of a team. Brian (34:58) Hahaha Yeah. Linda Rising (35:18) where the team leader tells the other people on the team that he has a terminal illness. And when he did that, everybody else on the team realized that they didn't really know anything about this guy. And they in turn began to share, well, I'm also having some struggles and here's my story. And going through that. cause that team to move up a notch, if you will, to become more intelligent, to be more aware, to suddenly be a little more respectful of how the discussions were. It was just telling stories about what you're going through so that everyone will be aware of how you feel, what you think is gonna be your... Brian (35:48) Yeah. Linda Rising (36:11) future in the next six months that they didn't have any training or study groups or they just told stories. Brian (36:26) They got to know each other as humans. And it's amazing how often we forget that that's who we work with. At least right now, we work with other human beings. And I hope that never changes, because that's where the best ideas, that's where the best creativity comes from. And yeah, it's fascinating, but you're absolutely right. I can see that point. Linda Rising (36:28) Yes, exactly. think for me, this is all, it's been really a hopeful journey because in the beginning, I wasn't even sure how it would go. I didn't know anything about the intelligence of groups. And in the beginning, it was all, okay, here's what MIT is doing and reading through, I mean, there were a lot of papers that I slogged through and it wasn't until about halfway through that, I discovered. Project Aristotle and I saw, this really connects. And now all these other things start to bubble up that really make a lot of sense. And of course, that it fits. It fits with Agile. It fits with the Agile message that the big things like that cause you, especially if you've had any experience with Agile, to sort of wake up and say, how do I miss this? Brian (37:50) Ha ha. Linda Rising (37:52) I should have seen this and it's news to me. So, wow, we're all still learning, I guess, aren't we? Brian (38:03) Yeah, I mean, you get presented with something like that and think, I've kind of intuitively known this all along, but I didn't have words for it. And now, now there's a vocabulary that can describe it. And I agree, right? That's exactly what it is. So yeah, you're absolutely right. Well, Linda, this is, this is such a fascinating discussion. And, you know, it's, I had no idea where, you know, group intelligence would lead us, but that it's all just fascinating. Linda Rising (38:09) Yeah Brian (38:32) the different threads of the spider web and where this kind of ends up. So I know it led you in a lot of places with your research and everything else. I really, really appreciate you sharing that with us and helping us to try to understand a little bit of the journey you've been on and kind of discovering this over the past year or so is what you said. Linda Rising (38:53) Yep. And I was going to say, anybody, I know most people don't want to spend the time reading the original research papers, and I don't blame you, that does take a lot of, you know, have a lot of investment in that. But there are some, I would call them sort of lightweight. There's some excellent, excellent Harvard Business Review articles that do a very good job of talking about. what is happening at MIT, what is happening at Google, that kind of a high-level summary, like Harvard Business Review does that like nobody else. And of course, there are TED Talks that Amy Edmondson has given, and there are all the Google Talks, of course, are also out on YouTube. And she has been to Google as well, so you can go listen to what she has to say there. So if you want to dig into this for yourself, there's a lot that you can get without having to read the book or read all the research papers. Brian (39:57) Yeah, we'll try to link to as much of this as we can in the show notes of this. So anyone who's listening, if you want to go down one of these rabbit holes like we talked about, maybe we can point the direction and say, hey, try this one. So we'll also include in the show notes some links to some of Linda's work as well so that you can find out more about her and maybe read one of her books as well and see some of the Linda Rising (40:11) Yeah! Brian (40:27) some of the insights she's already brought to this Agile community. And if you like what you heard here, I know you'll like her books as well. So Linda, thank you so much for making your time. I know it's very busy. Thank you for coming on the show. Linda Rising (40:41) It's been my pleasure. Can we close with some good wishes, some thoughts and prayers for all the people who are in Western North Carolina or in Florida who have just been two horrible disasters and are going to be a long time recovering. And that includes my good friend and co-writer Mary Lynn Mans who's in Asheville, North Carolina. So fingers crossed, prayers, good thoughts. Brian (41:11) Absolutely. I wholeheartedly concur with you on that. So I agree. Well, thanks again, Linda.

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1485: Christine Comaford highlights a critical leadership flaw that often undermines employee engagement: the lack of emotional safety. When employees don't feel safe expressing ideas or concerns, their engagement and creativity suffer. Discover how fostering trust and emotional security in the workplace can unlock innovation and boost overall team performance. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://smarttribesinstitute.com/one-mistake-leaders-make-kills-employee-engagement/ Quotes to ponder: "An emotionally safe environment fosters innovation, collaboration, and, ultimately, engagement." "Without emotional safety, the best employees are likely to disengage, leaving you with a team that's simply checking boxes." "Leaders must model openness, vulnerability, and a genuine desire to hear the voices of their team." Episode references: The Fearless Organization: https://www.amazon.com/Fearless-Organization-Psychological-Safety-Workplace/dp/1119477247 The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: https://www.amazon.com/Five-Dysfunctions-Team-Leadership-Lencioni/dp/0787960756 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Discover all of the podcasts in our network, search for specific episodes, get the Optimal Living Daily workbook, and learn more at: OLDPodcast.com. Episode 1485: Christine Comaford highlights a critical leadership flaw that often undermines employee engagement: the lack of emotional safety. When employees don't feel safe expressing ideas or concerns, their engagement and creativity suffer. Discover how fostering trust and emotional security in the workplace can unlock innovation and boost overall team performance. Read along with the original article(s) here: https://smarttribesinstitute.com/one-mistake-leaders-make-kills-employee-engagement/ Quotes to ponder: "An emotionally safe environment fosters innovation, collaboration, and, ultimately, engagement." "Without emotional safety, the best employees are likely to disengage, leaving you with a team that's simply checking boxes." "Leaders must model openness, vulnerability, and a genuine desire to hear the voices of their team." Episode references: The Fearless Organization: https://www.amazon.com/Fearless-Organization-Psychological-Safety-Workplace/dp/1119477247 The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: https://www.amazon.com/Five-Dysfunctions-Team-Leadership-Lencioni/dp/0787960756 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Expert leadership scholar Amy Edmondson unpacks psychological safety, the need for belonging, and overcoming imposter syndrome in teams.In this episode, we delve into toxic positivity, the balance between realism and optimism in leadership, and notable case studies like the "Miracle on Ice". In her books ‘Teaming' and ‘The Fearless Organization', Amy explains the critical role of psychological safety in fostering effective teamwork. We discuss her reflections on belonging, imposter syndrome, and her practical advice for creating supportive work environments.Join us to explore:High-performance environmentsWhat is ‘Toxic Positivity'?The ‘Stop, Challenge, Choose' modelOvercoming imposter syndromeThe true essence of psychological safety Please email stephen@liveunbound.com if you have any questions about what we discussed today.Like this show? Please subscribe and leave us a five-star rating and review. It's a chance to tell us what you love about the show, and it helps others discover it too. Consider leaving your Instagram handle so we can thank you personally, and feel free to follow ours.

Does your workplace feel like a battleground at times? Have you been told to just toughen up and deal with it? The pain of workplace bullying can be isolating and damaging to your mental health, leaving you feeling trapped and powerless. If you're tired of feeling this way, it's time to find a better solution to address workplace bullying effectively. Let's explore how you can foster a culture of trust and openness in your teams to prevent workplace bullying and create a psychologically safe environment where everyone can thrive. In this episode, you will be able to: Understand how to prevent workplace bullying with psychological safety. Discover the effects of workplace bullying on mental health. Learn how to cultivate psychological safety in teams. Find out effective ways to address bullying in the workplace. Explore the crucial role of leadership in fostering workplace safety. "Teams with high psychological safety are not only more innovative and productive, but they also create a workplace where bullying is less likely to occur." - Lori Adams-Brown Lori Adams Brown, a seasoned professional with a wealth of experience in leadership development, has a personal connection to the issue of workplace bullying. Having been a target of workplace abuse herself, Lori knows firsthand the transformative power of psychological safety. Her journey through overcoming hard challenges and finding healing has fueled her passion for preventing and addressing workplace bullying. She has dived deep into research and personal stories of targets of workplace bullying to understand how psychological safety can play a pivotal role in creating a work environment that not only prevents bullying but also fosters trust and openness. Through her personal experiences and extensive insights, Lori is dedicated to sharing tools and knowledge, not only to help those who have been targets of workplace bullying but also to empower managers and leaders to cultivate psychologically safe teams. Her narrative-style approach evokes a sense of relatability, resonating with the emotions and experiences of her audience, making her an authentic and credible voice in fostering a culture of trust and openness in teams. She shares quick tips from the research and books she has studied as well as the patterns from the qualitative research from stories of targets themselves in order to help anyone wanting to prevent workplace bullying by recognizing the red flags and cultivating an work culture where bullying is prevented and quickly stopped. Learn how to: 1. Build a culture of trust 2. Enhance mental well-being 3. Foster psychological safety The key moments in this episode are: 00:05:21 - Understanding Workplace Bullying 00:09:47 - Psychological Safety and Bullying Prevention 00:12:27 - Creating a Psychologically Safe Environment 00:14:30 - Creating a Culture of Acceptance and Feedback 00:15:28 - Swiftly Addressing Bullying 00:17:31 - Promoting Inclusivity and Respect Resources: EPS on spiritual abuse EPS with grounding techniques with Dr. Debbie Pinkston 1. Google's Project Aristotle 2. Amy Edmondson's Work on Psychological Safety   3. The Bully at Work 4. Workplace Bullying Institute 5. The Fearless Organization by Amy Edmondson 6. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) 7. HBR 15 types of bullying Subscribe to the podcast to never miss an episode. Leave a rating for the podcast. Ratings help others discover the podcast and make a significant impact. Leave a review for the podcast. Reviews also help others find the podcast and contribute to its visibility. Share the podcast. Stay connected: https://www.aworldofdifferencepodcast.com https://www.linkedin.com/company/aworldofdifference/ https://www.twitter.com/@awodpod https://www.youtube.com/@aworldofdifference https://www.facebook.com/A-World-of-Difference-613933132591673/ https://www.instagram.com/aworldof.difference https://www.patreon.com/aworldofdifference Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Does your workplace feel like a battleground at times? Have you been told to just toughen up and deal with it? The pain of workplace bullying can be isolating and damaging to your mental health, leaving you feeling trapped and powerless. If you're tired of feeling this way, it's time to find a better solution to address workplace bullying effectively. Let's explore how you can foster a culture of trust and openness in your teams to prevent workplace bullying and create a psychologically safe environment where everyone can thrive. In this episode, you will be able to: Understand how to prevent workplace bullying with psychological safety. Discover the effects of workplace bullying on mental health. Learn how to cultivate psychological safety in teams. Find out effective ways to address bullying in the workplace. Explore the crucial role of leadership in fostering workplace safety. "Teams with high psychological safety are not only more innovative and productive, but they also create a workplace where bullying is less likely to occur." - Lori Adams-Brown Lori Adams Brown, a seasoned professional with a wealth of experience in leadership development, has a personal connection to the issue of workplace bullying. Having been a target of workplace abuse herself, Lori knows firsthand the transformative power of psychological safety. Her journey through overcoming hard challenges and finding healing has fueled her passion for preventing and addressing workplace bullying. She has dived deep into research and personal stories of targets of workplace bullying to understand how psychological safety can play a pivotal role in creating a work environment that not only prevents bullying but also fosters trust and openness. Through her personal experiences and extensive insights, Lori is dedicated to sharing tools and knowledge, not only to help those who have been targets of workplace bullying but also to empower managers and leaders to cultivate psychologically safe teams. Her narrative-style approach evokes a sense of relatability, resonating with the emotions and experiences of her audience, making her an authentic and credible voice in fostering a culture of trust and openness in teams. She shares quick tips from the research and books she has studied as well as the patterns from the qualitative research from stories of targets themselves in order to help anyone wanting to prevent workplace bullying by recognizing the red flags and cultivating an work culture where bullying is prevented and quickly stopped. Learn how to: 1. Build a culture of trust 2. Enhance mental well-being 3. Foster psychological safety The key moments in this episode are: 00:05:21 - Understanding Workplace Bullying 00:09:47 - Psychological Safety and Bullying Prevention 00:12:27 - Creating a Psychologically Safe Environment 00:14:30 - Creating a Culture of Acceptance and Feedback 00:15:28 - Swiftly Addressing Bullying 00:17:31 - Promoting Inclusivity and Respect Resources: EPS on spiritual abuse EPS with grounding techniques with Dr. Debbie Pinkston 1. Google's Project Aristotle 2. Amy Edmondson's Work on Psychological Safety   3. The Bully at Work 4. Workplace Bullying Institute 5. The Fearless Organization by Amy Edmondson 6. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) 7. HBR 15 types of bullying Subscribe to the podcast to never miss an episode. Leave a rating for the podcast. Ratings help others discover the podcast and make a significant impact. Leave a review for the podcast. Reviews also help others find the podcast and contribute to its visibility. Share the podcast. Stay connected: https://www.aworldofdifferencepodcast.com https://www.linkedin.com/company/aworldofdifference/ https://www.twitter.com/@awodpod https://www.youtube.com/@aworldofdifference https://www.facebook.com/A-World-of-Difference-613933132591673/ https://www.instagram.com/aworldof.difference https://www.patreon.com/aworldofdifference Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this insightful episode, we sit down with Amy Edmondson, one of the world's leading management thinkers. As the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at Harvard Business School, she is an expert in psychological safety and organizational learning.  In episode 14 of season 2, she discusses the importance of creating environments where team members feel safe to speak up and how this psychological safety is essential for learning and innovation. She also explores the balance between psychological safety and accountability, emphasizing that these concepts are not in opposition but rather complementary in high-performing teams. You'll gain valuable insights into how to foster a culture of inquiry, the role of clear goals in team performance, and practical steps for turning around fearful organizations. Amy's examples from companies like Pixar and Southwest Airlines offer concrete illustrations of how these principles can be applied in real-world settings. You'll find this episode valuable if  you're looking for actionable advice for leaders looking to enhance their team's psychological safety, accountability, and overall performance. . . . Like this episode? Be sure to leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review and share the podcast with your colleagues. . . . TIME-STAMPED SHOW NOTES: [02:13] Leadership mistakes and psychological safety [05:26] The role of psychological safety in organizational learning [08:58] Balancing psychological safety and accountability [14:07] Characteristics of high-performing teams [18:09] The impact of clear goals on team performance [24:12] Turning around a fearful organization [30:22] Lessons from Pixar and Southwest Airlines [39:38] Tips for leaders on mastering the art of asking good questions  

«Não há limites!»«É tudo uma questão de força de vontade.»«Pensa positivo e vais atrair coisas positivas.»«Acredita e vais conseguir.»«Não fiques triste, olha que ainda ficas deprimido.»Quantas vezes já ouvimos ou lemos estas frases? O pensamento positivo, o pensamento mágico e a lei da atração invadiram o nosso mundo. Neste episódio, Ana Moniz, a nova especialista do [IN] Pertinente Sociedade, explica como esta sensação de termos controlo sobre tudo  pode virar-se contra nós.A psicóloga da área cognitivo-comportamental e executive coach  desvenda as razões pelas quais considera esta positividade (tóxica) perigosa perante problemas tão complexos quanto a ansiedade, a depressão ou, sequer, a simples tristeza. Questionada por Hugo van Der Ding,  a especialista alerta para a importância de não reprimir emoções difíceis, já que são essenciais para o crescimento individual.É que, ao contrário do que nos fazem crer, as ‘frases aspiracionais' são tudo menos empáticas, e desencadeiam todo um processo de culpabilização por não sermos capazes de estar sempre felizes, positivos e alegres. Autorize-se a ser menos positivo, a não estar sempre contente e a aceitar que falhou: afinal, isso, sim, é o que pode fazer evoluir.REFERÊNCIAS E LINKS ÚTEISCarlo Strenger, O medo da insignificância - Como dar sentido às nossas vidas no Século XXI (Lua de Papel, 2012)Barbara Ehrenreich, «Smile or Die - How Positive Thinking Fooled America and the World» (Granta Publications, 2021)Brent Brown, «Daring Greatly - How Courage to be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent and Lead» (Avery, 2015)Susan David, «Emotional Agility» (Avery, 2016)David Dias Neto, A Cura pelo Diálogo (Edições Sílabo, 2022)Amy C. Edmondson,  «The Fearless Organization» (Wiley, 2018)Discurso de Amy Edmondson, baseado no livro «The Fearless Organization», durante a HR CONGRESS WORLD SUMMITBIOSHUGO VAN DER DING Nasceu numa praia de Saint-Jean-de-Luz, nos Pirenéus Atlânticos, filho de um pastor belga e de mãe argentina de quem se perdeu o rasto pouco depois. Dedicou-se, nos primeiros anos, ao negócio de pastorícia da família até fugir para Bayonne, onde completou o curso dos liceus. ANA MONIZPsicoterapeuta de adultos e adolescentes, e professora convidada na Nova SBE. É executive e team coach, certificada pela ACTIVISION, formadora na Associação Portuguesa de Terapias Cognitivas, Comportamentais e Integrativas, atuando também em contexto organizacional nas áreas comportamentais.

In this episode of Rural Health Leadership Radio, Dr. Bill Auxier reflects on his recent experience at the Coaching and Leadership in Healthcare event co-hosted by Harvard Medical School, the Institute of Coaching, and McLean Hospital. He discusses the concept of "intelligent failure" as presented by Harvard Professor Amy Edmondson, emphasizing the importance of distinguishing intelligent failures, which are well-considered and lead to valuable learnings, from mere sloppy mistakes. The discussion explores how embracing intelligent failures can foster innovation and growth within organizations and the pivotal role of leadership particularly in rural settings. “Intelligent failure happens all the time. It happens in science, in industry innovation projects, in sports, and even in ordinary life."  -Dr. Bill Auxier "The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth" by Amy Edmondson is a pivotal guide for fostering an environment where innovation and engagement are forefront. This book argues that the traditional workplace culture of conformity and silence is detrimental in today's knowledge-driven economy. Instead, it champions a culture where it's safe to share ideas, ask questions, and admit mistakes.  Edmondson presents practical strategies for creating psychological safety, enhancing team performance, and encouraging the open exchange of ideas to fuel innovation and growth. The book offers a blueprint for leaders looking to nurture a climate of transparency and openness, ensuring that every team member feels valued and heard, thereby driving organizational success. You can purchase a copy of the book here: The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth: Edmondson, Amy C.: 9781119477242: Amazon.com: Books

Jörn Hendrik Ast: The Double-Edged Sword of Commitment, An Agile Team's Journey Through Innovation and Despair Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Jörn Hendrik recounts a sobering team story centered around the development and eventual discontinuation of a seemingly promising app. This episode sheds light on the dangers of commitment without flexibility, the value of listening to feedback, and the importance of recognizing when to pivot. It's a tale of commitment, disillusionment, and the hard-earned wisdom that sometimes, stopping is part of the journey to success. Featured Book of the Week: Fearless Organization by Amy Edmondson Dive into Amy Edmondson's "Fearless Organization" with Jörn as he shares how this seminal work on psychological safety reshaped his approach to team management and workshop organization. This segment, explores the transformative power of psychological safety in the workplace, underpinned by practical insights from Jörn's experience. Discover how breaking the silence on issues can propel teams towards better collaboration, innovation, and success. A must-listen for anyone looking to foster an environment where every voice is heard and valued. [IMAGE HERE] Do you wish you had decades of experience? Learn from the Best Scrum Masters In The World, Today! The Tips from the Trenches - Scrum Master edition audiobook includes hours of audio interviews with SM's that have decades of experience: from Mike Cohn to Linda Rising, Christopher Avery, and many more. Super-experienced Scrum Masters share their hard-earned lessons with you. Learn those today, make your teams awesome!     About Jörn Hendrik Ask Jörn Hendrik Ast, founded of New Work Heroes in 2018. He is an entrepreneur, podcaster, and author dedicated to innovating work through team collaboration, leadership, and personal development. He is coaching teams, producing podcast episodes, and continues to create impactful learning formats and books. You can link with Jörn Hendrik Ask on LinkedIn and connect with Jörn Hendrik Ask on Threads.

Bio  Fabiola is a pioneer and thought leader in Agile HR and Co-Founder of Just Leading Solutions, a global transformation consultancy for HR and Business Agility. As a seasoned Management Consultant and Executive Advisor, she works with key players around the globe and across the private, corporate, and social sectors. She helps them become more adaptive and innovative by maximizing the potential of their people function. Fabiola is a Switzerland native living in New York. She is an avid New York Rangers fan.   Interview Highlights 03:20 Business Agility 04:35 The Impact of Technology 07:45 How HR Fits into Business Agility 10:35 Making the Change 13:50 Sustainable Initiatives 16:25 Agile HR vs Agility in HR 18:35 Workforce Planning Sessions 30:15 The Agile HR Course   Links ·         JLS Website: www.justleadingsolutions.com ·         Training Overview: Agile HR Training ·         Agile HR Explorer: Agile HR Explorer Training ·         LinkedIn Fabiola Eyholzer   Books & Resources ·         The Connected Company, Dave Gray ·         Thinking in Systems, Donella Meadows ·         The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth, Amy Edmondson   ·         The Culture Code: The Secrets of Highly Successful Groups, Daniel Coyle   Episode Transcript Intro: Hello and welcome to the Agile Innovation Leaders podcast. I'm Ula Ojiaku. On this podcast I speak with world-class leaders and doers about themselves and a variety of topics spanning Agile, Lean Innovation, Business, Leadership and much more – with actionable takeaways for you the listener. Ula Ojiaku So I have with me here Fabiola Eyholzer, she is the Co-Founder and CEO of Just Leading Solutions, a New York based consultancy for Lean Agile People Operations. Fabiola, it's a massive honour and pleasure to have you on this show. Thank you for being my guest on the Agile Innovation Leaders podcast. Fabiola Eyholzer Thank you, Ula, the pleasure is all mine. Ula Ojiaku So how did you get into this, you know, Lean Agile space? Fabiola Eyholzer So it's actually quite an interesting story. It's now 13 years ago when I was running the Swiss market for a European HR consultancy, and we were looking for a new leadership model for our career starters. And I met some Agile coaches and they're like, oh, you have to do Scrum, and I'm like, well, did you hear me say that we are an HR consultancy, we're not a software developer. She's like, trust me, it's the right thing to do, so we did a test run. So we introduced Scrum, which is the predominant Agile practice with our career starters, and it was such an eye opener to see what actually happens when we work in this new way that I knew this is the future, and I decided there and then to quit my job and dedicate the next phase of my career to Agile HR. Ula Ojiaku Wow. And since then, what sorts of organisations or projects or initiatives have you worked on? Fabiola Eyholzer So we've worked on so many different initiatives and with so many different companies and I actually had to look it up, I was in over 21 countries with the topic of HR Agility, and in that time I worked with companies across all industries, across all sectors, from profit, to non-profit, to education. And something that is really interesting is that at the end of the day, it doesn't matter that much what your corporate culture is, what your social culture is, when it comes to the people function, we want to make sure how do we maximise the people function, how do we leverage what we are doing in HR in a way that is highly beneficial for our employees, and with that, highly beneficial for our organisations. And of course, right now we are in that situation that the world of work around us is changing massively, you know, it's just being turned upside down. And this is, on the one hand, really scary, on the other hand, it's a massive chance to really reinvent HR, and really do things differently. Ula Ojiaku Something that stands out to me is you're saying it's an opportunity to reinvent HR and we will get back to that, but before we do, what does business agility mean to you? Fabiola Eyholzer So for me, business agility is really ensuring that our companies are engaging and adaptive and innovative so that they can thrive in that fast paced and constantly changing, highly dynamic environment. And at the core, what it means is that organisations and institutions are shifting away from being well oiled machines to being thriving ecosystems, because adaptability means exploring change, enabling change and being able to be change ready and to manage change to flex their muscles, to explore opportunities very quickly, to act on opportunities and not be scared, not be afraid to pivot and to course correct. And that's what we are seeing right now, that companies have to shift away from a model that served us really well for 150 years to a new system that is always at the edge of chaos, but that's the only way to continue to thrive and be adaptive in that fast paced, highly dynamic environment. Ula Ojiaku And would you say, I've, this is the first time I'm hearing that phrase, edge of chaos, but I do agree, and would you say that in this day and age, because the nature of the work we do, compared to 150 years ago, or even some years ago, it's for the most part getting to be knowledge-based, especially in technology. Is that one of the considerations for the change we need in the way we organise and run our companies or groups or teams? Fabiola Eyholzer Yes, technology is definitely a massive game changer for us, but it's not just about changing the way we work or changing the way our processes work. And quite often when we talk about technology in the HR space, people think about, you know, putting our HR process onto new, fancier digital process, but that's not just what it's about. It's more about understanding how much is technology and everything else that goes hand in hand with that, how is it changing the way that we work, and it leaves us with that very fundamental question, what type of work is left for us humans? If everything around us is being automated, and you know when we think about automation, a lot of people think about assembly line work going away, you know, routine work going away. And that was true 20 years ago. But today, work is being automated in every single field imaginable. And it's not just routine work that is being automated, and that leaves us with that question, what type of work is left for us? The answer is, it's the type of work that requires our passion and our potential for collaboration, ideation, our social and emotional intelligence. And of course, we are solving problems we never had to solve before, so there is no script, and that means we need to organise our companies in a different way. We need to organise work in a different way so that we can manage that ongoing fast paced change and that we can continue to solve problems we haven't solved before. And that's why we need to shift away from being a well oiled machine that has everything already figured out and written into job descriptions and competency models and objectives and KPIs to a company that can create and respond to change very quickly. Ula Ojiaku So given your definition of what business agility means to you and the case you've made for change, in the sense that we're at the edge of chaos and the sorts of work we need to do right now because technology, almost everything can be and will be automated in one way or the other, so where does HR fit in into this, in the light of business agility? Fabiola Eyholzer I can give you a very straightforward, simple answer. The role of HR in business agility is that HR is the secret to business agility, because if we don't align our people approach, and if we don't align our HR practices to the new realities and new demands, we're not going to be successful. So if we don't engage in talent scouting and talent enablement and performance acceleration in a way that is aligned with the new way of working, we cannot achieve business agility. Ula Ojiaku And how ready would you say the HR function is for this sort of transformation? Fabiola Eyholzer So the companies that we work with, or that I have the pleasure of working with, they are ready, or at least they're not scared to try. So they're courageous enough to try. As an industry in human resources, I think we have a long way to go. On the one hand, we see that things are changing and we're trying super hard to change with the times, but quite often we don't have that fundamental understanding that the entire mindset, the entire DNA of the organisation is going to change, and unless we understand that new mindset, that new DNA, we will not be able to change or maximise the people function in a way that is most beneficial for Agile enterprise. So we have a long way to go. Ula Ojiaku How would you know if an organisation's HR function is ready? Are there some indicators that they're ready to go on this journey if they haven't started already? Fabiola Eyholzer One of the indicators is if they have more questions than answers, they're probably there. So, because the companies are just saying, oh, we've done this, we've done that, tick, tick, tick. They're probably not the ones with that growth mindset that Agile organisations need. Okay, so that's one indicator. The other indicator is that they're not satisfied with the status quo and at the same time they are willing to do something about it. So I sometimes say, we have a gut feeling that tells us there must be a better way out there to engage with people, to create a learning organisation, to inspire people. And if we listen to that gut feeling, then we need to be gutsy about it, to change it, to do something about it. And these are some of the things that we see in organisations that we work with, they are not afraid to challenge the status quo. They realise we need to change and we need to change now. Ula Ojiaku And okay, when they have identified, yes, we need to change, we need to change now, what's your typical direction or steer or guidance to these organisations and their leaders in terms of where to start? Would you say, let's take a big bang approach and overhaul everything? Or would it be small iterative steps towards the change? What's your typical approach? How would you advise them? Fabiola Eyholzer So I'm going to give you the consultant answer, it depends. So it depends on the change readiness and change willingness of the company. We have a lot of companies where we have amazing success, when we took one part of the organisation, typically around 500 to 2500 people, where we changed the entire HR approach. We had some companies where we have had amazing success with a big bang where we really transformed the entire HR organisation, but it really depends on how ready are you to explore and also how willing are you, how much do you want to put in, how much energy and passion and resources are you willing to put into that transformation? But one thing that we always do is, we start with training and inspiring people, because we talk about a new world of work. And while this is easy to say, you know, people initially envisioned this is about virtual work, or working from home. Well that's a tiny part of what we're talking about when it comes to this new world of work, and because this new world of work is rooted in such a fundamentally different mindset, we first need to understand that mindset, and we need to speak the same language, because quite often we're using words that have a very different meaning in the Agile space versus the traditional corporate environment. And I can give you an example, for instance, if we talk about hiring for potential, you know, what are we looking for? In the traditional way of looking at potential, it's, does someone have the potential to thrive in that particular role, and does someone have the potential to take the next step in a predefined career trajectory? But that's not what we're talking about when we talk about hiring for potential in the agile space. We are talking about hiring for potential to thrive in an uncertain, complex, ambiguous, volatile world. Does someone feel comfortable with uncertainty, not knowing what their job is going to look like 12 months from now? Does someone feel comfortable with flexing their muscles, with learning and unlearning new things? So it's a very different understanding of a simple work word ‘hiring for potential'. So that's what we're doing, is speaking that new language, understanding why and how this new world is so fundamentally different. Ula Ojiaku Well, that's very, very thought provoking and some of the things in my little experience that I would expect leaders of such organisations to say like, yes, well and good, you know, you inspire us, there's a case for change, but how can we make sure this isn't one of those multiple failed large change initiatives with engagement? How would we know we will make this sustainable? Fabiola Eyholzer So you will never have a guarantee, but what is a massive game changer, and what's crucial to the success of any transformation is your commitment, okay? So you have to stick with it, even, or especially, when the going gets tough. And since we are working in such a different way, it's super easy to fall back into old patterns of behaviour when there are problems that come up, when we need to reprioritise, when something unforeseen happens, it's super easy to fall back, and that's when you have to keep going. And I think that dedication is one of the key aspects. And also what's interesting about agility is when you learn about Agile and how it works, and what the values are, it resonates with us. Of course it does, because it was created for the human economy, so it taps into what we bring to the table. So it sounds super easy and straightforward, let's talk about empowering people, who doesn't want to feel empowered, but then it's, we have to figure out what does that mean for us in an organisation, what does empowerment mean? How do we share that empowerment? How do we allow the teams to explore, to learn, to stumble, to fail, to course correct? It's not always that easy to then actually follow through. And I always say the devil is in the detail when it comes to Agile. You know, it sounds super easy on the surface, but when you dig in deeper, it gets more challenging. Ula Ojiaku It's almost like learning to play a game of chess. Yes, you might know how the different pieces move on the board, but actually the getting into it, it's a lifelong pursuit to become a grandmaster, almost anyway. I really enjoyed going through your course, the Agile HR Explorer course that's on the Scaled Agile platform open to SBCs, but there was something that you mentioned in that course, Agile HR versus Agility in HR. Can you explain for the benefit of the audience, you know, what these two terms mean and how they differ? Fabiola Eyholzer Yes, so the word HR has two meanings. So when people talk about HR, they can either mean the HR department, your compensation specialist, your learning expert, your grading instructor. So all these HR professions, so the entire HR department and that. Or they can mean HR as a discipline, as a function, where we talk about talent acquisition and performance management and learning and development, workforce planning and so on. And because there is that duality to it, we also have a different approach to agility. And that's when you hear those words, Agile for HR, so meaning what can Agile do for the HR department or HR for Agile, meaning what does HR do for the Agile teams, for the Agile organisation, and the approach is slightly different. So when we bring Agile to the HR department, it's all about how do we work in a different way? How do we organise around value? How do we deliver value faster, in a better way? So it's implementing all these Agile practices, the natural practices and ceremonies and artifacts within the HR department. Whereas the other side is really, how do we align all our HR practices to this new way of working, and that's really where the magic happens. So if we shift from recruiting to talent scouting, if we shift from learning and development to talent enablement, if we shift from performance management to performance acceleration, that's when we help the organisation become and stay Agile, that's when we bring business, or enable business agility across the organisation. Ula Ojiaku And there's something you said about workforce planning, you know, so in terms of the function, if I may just go slightly off tangent, it's a question that's been on my mind in the sense that, is there a way that one could approach workforce planning that would undermine the agility of the organisation? So I'm going to give a hypothetical example. So there are some organisations who might be saying, do you know what, in this economy, we need to balance out our talent mix, and we want new, fresh talent who, maybe fresh graduates who are, they will cost cheaper, they probably are up to date with new technologies versus, you know, existing talent who might be more expensive. So is there a way that one might approach workforce planning that could be detrimental, because there are pros and cons to every approach potentially, but in your experience, in the multiple organisations you've supported and continue to support, could there be things we could watch out for that might undermine our agility in that space? Fabiola Eyholzer Yes, so the way that we look at it is when we look at talent and what talent brings to the table, we don't look at it from, is this talent expensive or cheap? It's about how much value does this talent add to the organisation? Okay, so it's a value based way of looking at it, rather than a cost based, right. So that's the first part. The other part is that we, what we want to do with adaptive workforce planning is that we can explore opportunities very quickly, so it has to be a way where it's easy for us to say, hey, we have new initiatives come up that require new skills that we are very proactive about it, that, let's say we need more AI experience or Blockchain experience or whatever it is in the future, if we know that today that there is a high chance that we need it, let's look at the organisation. Do we already have people who have experience or skills in that particular field? Can they train others? Do we have to start building, putting up a training program ourselves? Do we have to get external talent in that can give us a leg up? Can we work with exploratory assignments to get people that experience? So there's so many things that we can do, and the focus with anything that we do in agility is always about now and the future, whereas in the traditional workforce planning, it's more about the past and today. And if you think about it, workforce planners, they don't have a full overview of what are the initiatives the teams are going to be working on six months from now, but we think it's going to be 12 months from now. And that's what we do with the active workforce planning in the Agile space. We have that forward looking approach. We look at our talent pool and say, what's the strength of our talent pool, not just compared to the initiatives that we're doing today, but to the initiatives that we think are coming up. And the beauty about this is, and here you see that we're really applying systems thinking, is that this is then opening up growth opportunities for our employees, because if we want to be an Agile organisation, we need to be a learning organisation first. Ula Ojiaku I do like what you're saying about the adaptive workforce planning and it does align with that, you know, responding to change over just sticking to a plan. How often would you recommend or how often in your view would it be practical to be having these sorts of workforce planning sessions? Fabiola Eyholzer We do it once a quarter with our clients, because that allows you to then also collaborate, because this is about talent management, you know, where do we see things that people need to learn, what they want to focus on, do we need to open up exploratory assignments, do we need to assign people to different teams, all of these things we need to know before we go into our quarterly planning. So if we talk in SAFe terminologies, you want that to happen before your PI planning so that you can make sure that those people topics are part of the backlog. So we work with capacity allocation, all of that, to make sure that we have people topics on that, so that's why we do it once a quarter. Ula Ojiaku Okay. And I would assume, you know, once a quarter, those people topics, because there's also the respect for the individual or the people involved, there would be some factoring in that there will be conversations with the individuals to say, hey, this is what we think is going to happen, what's your opinion? Do you want to go instead of just shifting them into positions and maybe them learning on the day of the PI Planning your team has changed. Fabiola Eyholzer Yes, and, you know, in the Agile space, we talk a good game about empowerment and we know how it works when it comes to work, but of course, empowerment also means empowering people when it comes to their learning and growth journey. So, hey, the people manager, people developer and HR are there to open up opportunities for them, but at the end of the day, they have to be on that journey by themselves, they have to make those steps, they have to go through that door, they have to go out and learn and explore and bring themselves into play. So it's, what's empowerment when it comes to their own growth and learning. Ula Ojiaku Thanks for that Fabiola. Would you say that when you do this adaptive workforce planning, does it make sense for one area or team or division or department to be compared with another? And I'll tie it back, I'll just give you some context, because I've heard of organisations, you know, doing it based on, oh, we want to make sure our cost base is, you know, our overheads, we're cutting it, I know everyone is doing a good job but we want to cut it, can we start measuring this department with that department in terms of workforce planning. I do resonate with that value base, instead of looking at how much they cost, what's the value these people, these talents are bringing? What's your view on, in the process of doing this, comparing one unit or department with another in their workforce planning approach? Fabiola Eyholzer So there are two aspects to it. One is, what data do we measure? And the second part is what do we do with the data? So for instance, when it comes to adaptive workforce planning, for instance, one of the important KPIs that we have is looking at the talent pool strength. So how strong is the talent pool compared to what we're working on right now? What we're going to work on in the next one or two quarters and three to four quarters out. But we're measuring that just so that we have a data point to get us talking. So this is not about comparing my team to your team and my team is better than your team, that's not what this is about. It's more about having a data point that allows us to have a conversation, that allows us to see, are we moving into the right direction? So, and I think that's important to all the KPIs. Why are we measuring them? And what are we doing with the data? And also the question, are we measuring the right things? And something that we often see is that people don't differentiate between leading and lagging indicators. So, for instance, a simple example in HR, we often look at retention rates, which is a great measure to have. But here's the thing, a retention rate is a lagging indicator, a lot of stuff has already happened, you know, and people did that quiet quitting probably long before they actually handed in their notice. So while we want to have that data point, there are other data points that are probably going to be better for us to be proactive, to do things about it. So always think about why are we measuring something? Are we measuring the right things? Are we measuring the things that are easy to measure? And for instance, cost is a data point that is easy to measure, but it doesn't say anything about the value. If someone used a hundred percent of their budget, well, did they do well? We don't know. Maybe they could have done the same thing with 70% of the budget, or maybe they should have gone to 120 and created something amazing for the future. So, really think about why are we measuring things and what are we doing with the data? Ula Ojiaku It just reminds me of a conversation I had and I said, what if we don't look at the cost and what if we also asked, are they meeting the targets that you set for them, the objectives that you set for them, and could they be setting up your organisation to make, you know, quantum leaps of progress by the work they're doing right now. So, and some of these things we can't see into the future, it's only retrospective, and that's where the leading indicators you talked about, although you talked about it differently from, you know, measuring attrition and people leaving and retention and all that, but there are ways of knowing in advance whether our guess is most likely to be correct, and sometimes measuring money or the cost isn't always the best metric, so I really like what you said about that. Thank you. Fabiola Eyholzer And also when you think about it, so many organisations, they want to be innovative and adaptive. At the same time, they focus so much on efficiency and, you know, following a script, following a plan, you know, hitting certain numbers that are set in stone, that they actually lose agility and adaptability and innovation, but they don't see the connection between the two, they don't see the connection between their leadership approach and their HR and finance and legal processes and how that is impacting one way or another how innovative they are, how creative they are. Ula Ojiaku I do recognise we're kind of teetering whenever we talk about the cost, we're teetering between, you know, finance, but they are all intertwined, like you just pointed out, it's all intertwined and it's a delicate ecosystem where you're always going to have to be doing something to stay in balance. What you did yesterday might not necessarily work today, so it's all about sensing and responding and I do appreciate what you've said so far. So what led to your developing the Agile HR course, which is now on the Scaled Agile platform? Fabiola Eyholzer Yes, I co-created or co-founded JLS, I think, nine years ago, and we very early on realised that we need to have a training to sort of do that level setting, get people that foundation, foundational knowledge to succeed in their transformation efforts. And that's when we created a series of different courses, and one of them is the Explore course that you mentioned. It's a one day course, it's great for anyone who's new or fairly new to Agile, Agile HR, you know, someone who wants to know more about it, and this is really an important first step to a longer learning and growth journey. But if you're new to Agile and you're in HR, this is definitely a great training. It's a one day training that gives you, starts out with the new world of work, you know, why is it so different? Why do we have so much pressure on performance management and career models and so on and so forth? Then what is Agile? And we explain Agile, not using technology based examples, but HR examples, you know, what does good design mean in the HR space? So we really explain the Agile manifesto and Agile values and principles from a HR perspective, and then we bring these worlds together and we talk about what is Agile HR and how do we apply that to different HR practices? So it's going to give you a well-rounded introduction to the field of HR Agility. Ula Ojiaku And is this available on the JLS website? Fabiola Eyholzer Yes, so all our trainings are available on our website and also our partner companies offer Agile HR training, you can go to an open enrolment class or you can bring it to your own organisation to train either an entire department or a team. And it's especially valuable when you start out on a new initiative, you know, it doesn't matter whether your company is already Agile or planning to become more Agile, if you're tasked with reinventing performance management or, you know, doing a new initiative, a new project, this is always a good way to get into it and say, okay, how can we make Agile work for us before we then help the organisation be more Agile? Ula Ojiaku We'll definitely have the link to your website in the show notes with your episode. So what I'm hearing is it's available, there are some partners as well that offer this training, which you and your team have curated. But if someone says, no, I want you, Fabiola, to come to do this for us, is that possible as well? Fabiola Eyholzer Absolutely. You can go to our website and contact me or you can hunt me down on LinkedIn, I'm the only one with my name, so you should be able to find me and just send me a message and we can definitely collaborate. Ula Ojiaku Okay. Well, what excites you about what you do currently? Fabiola Eyholzer Oh, I tell people I have the best job in the world because I get to work with amazing people, amazing companies, you know, people and companies who are not afraid to push the status quo, you know, who are courageous to do things differently and who are not afraid to push boundaries, because we're getting into uncharted territory. When you think about human resources, the term HR was first used in 1893 by J. R. Commons. So HR is this year, 120 years old, and of course we've evolved, you know, we changed from personnel management to modern HR and everything, but we're at the cusp of a new era that is going to be fundamentally different from anything else that we've done in the past. And if you think about it, it's never been this exciting to be in HR. We get to reinvent and shape the future of HR, or the people function, whether you call it talent and culture, or employee success or people and culture, whatever term you're using, we are reinventing it, and I'm in the middle of it, so I get to help organisations do this. Ula Ojiaku That's exciting. I can sense the passion and the enthusiasm there. Would you be writing a book on this topic anytime soon? Fabiola Eyholzer Maybe one day. Ula Ojiaku Maybe, okay. Whilst we will be eagerly waiting for your book, what books would you recommend to people who might be wondering, okay, what else could I read to, to get abreast on this, or generally any books that you would recommend that have made an impact or impression on you? Fabiola Eyholzer So one book that had a really big impact on me was The Connected Company. So it talks about the company being more like a city, rather than an engine, and even though it doesn't talk about agility, it doesn't talk about human resources, there is so much food for thought in there, you just have to put that thought in to make that translation into HR, but I thought that was a fantastic book. Then obviously Thinking in Systems by Donella Meadows. I'm a systems thinker myself, so that definitely resonated a lot. And of course there are other books like The Culture Code, Fearless Organization, books like that, that can, you know, really give you a lot of food for thought. Ula Ojiaku Thank you very much. These would be in the show notes. And would there be any ask before we round up that you would have for the audience? Fabiola Eyholzer So don't be afraid to push boundaries and to challenge the status quo. As I said earlier, every time you have that gut feeling there is a better way out there, well, chance is that there actually is. So don't be afraid to push boundaries. Don't be afraid to try. And I know everyone sometimes feels that they're in that hamster wheel, that they have so many things to do already that they can't take on something else, but I tell you from personal experience and from my experience working in that field for, for 10 years, it is a game changer. And if you're willing to put in the work, the results are going to be amazing. Yes, actually it's hard work, but it really delivers what it promises. Don't be scared, be courageous, do it. Ula Ojiaku Thank you very much Fabiola for those words of wisdom. It's been a pleasure. I've thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and I hope, you know, we would have some follow up sometime in future. Many thanks Fabiola. Fabiola Eyholzer Anytime. Thank you so much. Pleasure was all mine. Ula Ojiaku That's all we have for now. Thanks for listening. If you liked this show, do subscribe at www.agileinnovationleaders.com or your favourite podcast provider. Also share with friends and do leave a review on iTunes. This would help others find this show. I'd also love to hear from you, so please drop me an email at ula@agileinnovationleaders.com Take care and God bless!   

In this episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, I interviewed Amy Edmondson, the Novartis professor of leadership and management at the Harvard Business School. Renowned for her research on psychological safety and author of several acclaimed books, including The Fearless Organization, and the Science of Failing Well - winner of the 2023 Financial Times Business Book of the Year. Amy shares her insights on the science of failing well in entrepreneurship. Key Takeaways Amy Edmondson challenges the conventional view of failure, advocating for a shift towards intelligent risk-taking in entrepreneurship. By emphasizing the importance of clear goals, informed hypotheses, and systematic risk assessment, she guides listeners towards embracing failure as a catalyst for growth and innovation. Amy underscores the role of organizational leaders in cultivating a culture where intelligent risk-taking is encouraged and celebrated, empowering teams to experiment, learn, and adapt. Through reframing failure as a natural part of the entrepreneurial journey, Amy inspires aspiring entrepreneurs to navigate challenges with resilience and optimism, unlocking their full potential in today's dynamic business landscape. Rate, Review, & Follow on Apple Podcasts If you liked this episode please consider rating and reviewing the show. Click here - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-duct-tape-marketing-podcast/id78797836 scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, and select “Write a Review.” Then be sure to let me know what you loved most about the episode. Connect with John Jantsch on LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/ducttapemarketing/ Stuck trying to figure out your marketing strategy? Get Your Free AI Prompts To Build A Marketing Strategy HERE - dtm.world/freeprompts Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Failure is a powerful teacher, and nobody knows this better than Dr. Amy Edmondson, our guest in today's discussion. A Harvard Professor and the author behind influential works like “The Fearless Organization” and “Right Kind of Wrong” Dr. Edmondson discusses how to create a culture that not only tolerates failure but learns from it. She outlines the critical distinctions between basic, complex, and intelligent failures, stressing that the real learning comes from the latter. This episode offers leaders a roadmap to build trust among their teams, encourage the sharing of missteps, and adopt a mindset of psychological safety and intelligent risk-taking.   ________________ Start your day with the world's top leaders by joining thousands of others at Great Leadership on Substack. Just enter your email: ⁠⁠https://greatleadership.substack.com/

Being an effective leader means ensuring your team has the right environment to thrive, and that means fostering a psychologically safe work space. In this conversation, Markus Seebacher, Director of Engineering at Blocks, shares insights on becoming a better leader by building psychological safety within teams. Discover how this not only enhances team dynamics but also cultivates an environment conducive to innovation where groundbreaking ideas can flourish. Download Markus' Psychological Safety Starter Kit here: Free Starter Kit Book recommendations mentioned in this episode:  The Fearless Organization by Amy Edmanson  The Four Stages of Psychological Safety by Timothy Clark

Amy Edmondson: Right Kind of Wrong Amy Edmondson is the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School, where she studies people and organizations seeking to make a positive difference in the world through the work they do. She has pioneered the concept of psychological safety for over twenty years and is recognized as number one on the Thinkers50 global ranking of management thinkers. She also received that organization's Breakthrough Idea Award in 2019 and Talent Award in 2017. In 2019 she was first on HR Magazine's list of the 20 Most Influential International Thinkers in Human Resources. Her prior book, The Fearless Organization, explains psychological safety and has been translated into fifteen languages. In addition to publishing several books and numerous articles in top academic outlets, Amy has written for, or her work has been covered by, media such as The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, The Washington Post, Financial Times, and many others. Her TED Talk on teaming has been viewed more than 3 million times. She is the author of Right Kind of Wrong: The Science of Failing Well*. Many leaders espouse the value of talking about our failures. Yet, failure is a threat to our ego, so it turns out we're better at learning from the failures of others than we are from our own. In this conversation, Amy and I explore how to do a better job of growing where we're in the wrong. Key Points Failure is a threat to our ego. As a result, we're more likely to learn from the failures of others than from our own failures. It's hard to learn if you already know. If you came frame situations more helpfully, it can substantially influence your ability to grow from being wrong. Disrupt the inevitable emotional response to being wrong by asking this: how was I feeling before this happened? Challenge yourself by considering if the content of your thoughts are useful for your goal. A key question: what other interpretation of the situation is possible? Choose to say or do something that moves you closer to your goals. This question will help: what is going to best help me achieve my goals? Resources Mentioned Right Kind of Wrong: The Science of Failing Well* by Amy Edmondson Interview Notes Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required). Related Episodes How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404) The Value of Being Uncomfortable, with Neil Pasricha (episode 448) How to Quit Bad Stuff Faster, with Annie Duke (episode 607) Discover More Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

This week’s guest is Equal Experts Psychological Safety Lead, Julia Bellis. We talk about the misconceptions associated with psych safety, building safety in client-facing teams, and the challenges of hybrid and global working, amongst many other things. A couple of books were mentioned: The Culture Map by Erin Meyer and The Fearless Organization by Amy […]

Amy Edmondson is the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School, which is a Chair established to support the study of human interactions that lead to the creation of successful enterprises that contribute to the betterment of society. And in today's conversation we certainly talk about Harvard, what it's like to work on a college campus, and what it's like to be specifically at that college campus during this time in 2023 as we record today's conversation. Amy has been recognized by the Biannual Thinkers50 Global Ranking of Management Thinkers since 2011, and recently was ranked #1 in 2021. She's received that organization's Breakthrough Idea Award in 2019 and Talent Award in 2017. She studies teaming, psychological safety (which is going to be a core concept and competency that you've probably heard about at some point if you study environments and teams and groups), and we're going to talk about the famous Aristotle study that Google did that found that psychological safety was the #1 factor in determining team success, so this is definitely a deep dive into that concept and something that hopefully you can take with your teams and organizations. She also studies organizational learning and her articles have been published in numerous academic and management outlets, including Administrative Science Quarterly, Academy of Management Journal, Harvard Business Review, and California Management Review. She's written many books, so we're going to talk about The Fearless Organization, which she wrote in 2019, we're going to talk about her latest book, The Right Kind of Wrong, so a lot of this conversation is about mistakes and failures, and I highly recommend you check out that book. She's also written books around this concept of teaming, including Teaming to Innovate and Extreme Teaming. At her core, you're going to find Amy to be humble but brilliant, you're going to find her to be nuanced and thoughtful when it comes to psychology and the science of humans, and she is someone that I feel as though, even though she's got all these accolades, I feel like I could've talked to forever.  Amy had a number of amazing insights during our conversation. Some of them include: “A mindset is something that happens inside your head. It's an approach. It's an orientation” (6:35). “A psychologically safe environment in the classroom is mission-critical for learning and learners” (9:30). “Safe spaces and psychological safety are almost at odds, almost two opposing ideas rather than compatible ideas [in an educational space]” (12:20). “Classrooms can be environments where people can take risks and occasionally failures will happen… and through those we will learn and grow and get to be better versions of ourselves” (14:40). “Psychological safety for me has always been about helping people take their foot off the brakes” (15:05). “The day you decide you don't need to learn anymore, and your mind is made up and your opinions about various people and groups is made up, is the day you cease to grow (16:35). “It starts with a recognition that other human beings are just as important as you are” (21:10). “We all want to feel that we matter” (23:15). “The meaningful memories [on our death beds] have to do with other humans” (29:10). “There's an asymmetry [to psychological safety]” (30:35). “Vulnerability is a fact” (33:00). “If I'm unwilling to confront my vulnerability, then I'm at risk for unhappy surprises” (33:30). “Neuroscience research suggests that some of the same neurons are firing when we get a psychological assault or harm, like being rejected by a group of friends…, as for a physical harm” (36:20). “Emotions are incredibly important, incredibly powerful in shaping our human experiences (45:20). “Probably the most important capacity people can learn, in sports and in life, is how to tame their emotions” (45:55). “Your emotions can simply be data” (46:40). “The more expert we get in any given field or domain, the more we can effortlessly process context and take it into consideration” (56:25). “The best students, the unusually good students, are curious” (59:40). “To cultivate curiosity and collaboration, you have to truly believe that it's in your interest to do so” (1:00:35). “A mistake is an unintended deviation from a known process… A failure is an undesired outcome” (1:03:15). “There's no such thing as a mistake in new territory” (1:03:55). “It's about creating the safe conditions in which [your kids] can fail” (1:14:30). Additionally, you can find all of Amy's information on her website, and also follow her on Twitter and LinkedIn.  Thank you so much to Amy for coming on the podcast! I wrote a book called “Shift Your Mind” that was released in October of 2020, and you can order it on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. Additionally, I have launched a company called Strong Skills, and I encourage you to check out our new website https://www.strongskills.co/. If you liked this episode and/or any others, please follow me on Twitter: @brianlevenson or Instagram: @Intentional_Performers. Thanks for listening.  

Episode page with video, transcript, and more My guest for Episode #234 of the My Favorite Mistake podcast is Amy C. Edmondson, the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School, renowned for her research on psychological safety over twenty years.  Named by Thinkers50 in 2021 (And again here in 2023) as the #1 Management Thinker in the world, Edmondson's Ted Talk “How to Turn a Group of Strangers into a Team” has been viewed over three million times.  She received her PhD, AM, and AB from Harvard University. She lives in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and is the author of books including The Fearless Organization, Teaming, and her latest, Right Kind of Wrong: The Science of Failing Well is available now. Edmondson talks about the duality of mistakes – some that lead to massive successes and some that warrant a more mindful approach to growth and learning. Listen in as she recounts an endearing mistake from her personal life in the spectrum of Growth Mindset, discusses different types of failures and insights into how they can be reframed as opportunities for growth, exploration, and innovation. Edmondson emphasizes the importance of Psychological Safety and the transformation from a ‘speak up' culture into a ‘listen up' culture within organizations. Tune in today for an enlightening discussion on the fine line between reflecting and ruminating, along with Edmondson's personal anecdotes from her writing journey. Questions and Topics: How do you see the connection between mistakes and failures?  Sometimes failure is caused by outside factors? As much as I try to be positive about mistakes and failure, I don't love the phrase “fail early, fail often” — where do you think that phrase or concept misses the mark? Psychological safety comes up A LOT in this podcast series when we talk about a culture of learning from mistakes… how do you define it? Different types of failures — they're not all created equally? “Blameworthy” vs. “Praiseworthy” failures? Why do organizations collectively blame people more than individuals blame others? When leaders are super negative about mistakes… how is demanding perfection or say they must punish (or saying failure is NOT an option) counterproductive?  Learning from failure is not as easy as it sounds? Reflecting without ruminating? Mistakes in the book writing process? Proofreading mistakes that slipped through? Renowned Leadership Expert Amy E. Edmondson and Her Views on Psychological Safety and Failure The Duality of Mistakes Edmondson separates mistakes into three categories, drawing from her extensive research into the topic of failures and mistakes. These categories include examples from both her research and her personal life. Her favorite mistake to discuss lies within her research fields, and it features in her book “Right Kind of Wrong”. This mistake recounts the story of a 26-year-old chef from Guangdong, China, named Lee Kum Sheung, who accidentally left his oysters to overcook. The result was a sticky, unexpectedly delicious sauce, which eventually resulted in the creation of the globally renowned oyster sauce. This accidental creation, stemming from a simple mistake, led his family to accumulate a fortune of over 17 billion. This example serves to underline how seemingly negative mistakes can pave the way for groundbreaking innovations and successes. Edmondson argues this is contingent the individual's curiosity and openness to turning these mishaps into new possibilities. Growth Mindset in Mistake Processing Edmondson is a firm advocate of Carol Dweck's work on the concept of a growth mindset which she integrates into her own personal parenting approach. She shares a personal mistake in applying the growth mindset that prompted her to be more mindful in her interactions and praise. Based on the recommendation in Dweck's work, one should focus on the process of learning and effort rather than praising the outcome. Edmondson experienced this first-hand when her son sought constructive feedback, revealing his understanding and demand for a growth mindset. This interaction highlighted unchecked mistakes and further enhanced Edmondson's practice of the growth mindset. Mistake and Failure: Understanding Their Connections Regardless of their causes, many failures can be traced back to some form of mistake. However, not all failures are incidental to mistakes. In many cases, failures are the unfortunate and unexpected results of well-thought-out hypotheses or conscientiously set actions, particularly in new or unfamiliar territories. Shaping Our Attitudes towards Failure The view and treatment of failure in organizations often differ greatly from personal reactions. While individually, people recognize failure as a potent teacher, organizations frequently fail to translate this realization into practice. This gap is arguably a remanence of industrial-era mindsets, where expectations for results were rigidly predefined assuming minimal deviations. Today, this mindset is not compatible with the realities and demands of modern work environments. The culture within organizations regarding failure should be more accepting, even encouraging, as it often leads to crucial learning experiences and innovations. Edmondson proposes three distinct classifications for different types of failure which are basic failure, complex failure, and intelligent failure. While basic and complex failures epitomize blunders that can be potentially avoided, intelligent failures represent the unavoidable consequences of ventures into uncharted territories. To approach failure constructively, Edmondson suggests assessing causes individually and categorizing them across a spectrum of blameworthiness to praiseworthiness. This objective evaluation reframes failures as potential opportunities for growth and discovery rather than undisputable mistakes. The Importance of Psychological Safety Psychological safety has been a consistent topic in many discussions around failure. Seen as a belief that one's environment is safe for taking interpersonal risks such as admitting mistakes or sharing constructive feedback, psychological safety plays a vital role in creating a culture that is conducive to lesson-learning from mistakes. It is important to note that promoting a psychologically safe environment does not necessarily make dealing with these situations easier, but instead makes it more expected and acceptable. Edmondson advocates for psychological safety in organizations, arguing that it is largely influenced by the leadership at various levels in the organization. She asserts that managers should promote open communication about failures and provide necessary reassurances to stimulate learning and improvements from these experiences. The Emergence of a ‘Listen Up' Culture Edmondson makes a compelling argument for transforming a ‘speak up' culture into a ‘listen up' culture. The concept reframes the responsibility carelessly placed on the employees and champions the idea of creating a learning culture instead. In Edmondson's view, such a culture encourages members of an organization to approach every interaction and experience as an opportunity to learn something new, not just from each other, but also from clients and the world at large. By fostering a ‘listen up' culture, organizations inspire their staff to engage more proactively, ultimately nourishing an environment where speaking up is not an obligation but a hallmark of positive engagement. Balancing Between Reflecting and Ruminating Edmondson sheds light on the fine line between productive reflecting and destructive rumination, particularly after a misstep. Reflecting facilitates learning and growth, whereas rumination can deepen feelings of shame and loneliness. This might lead individuals into a vicious cycle of unproductive and recurring thoughts. She suggests adopting an objective cognitive process which starts with a simple inquiry, “What happened?”. This question encourages the individual to assess the situation without assigning blame. It allows them to consider the events dispassionately and extract valuable lessons, thereby directing focus to future improvement rather than past missteps. Reflecting is hence seen as a necessary mechanism for learning, allowing not just understanding but also creating meaningful change after a failure. The Art and Errors of Writing As a prolific author, Edmondson provides insights into the inevitable mistakes involved in the book writing process. She acknowledges how minor errors can slip through even after careful editing and proofreading. These small errors allow for reminders that even skilled authors and editors can make mistakes due to several factors such as fatigue and other biases. She emphasizes the importance of continuous iteration when writing, pointing out that improvement is always possible. Each day spent on a manuscript can uncover not just grammatical errors, but instances of unclear or convoluted sentences that can be rewritten or simplified. The potential to continually refine is what makes writing both a challenging and rewarding process. The Unavoidable Nature of Mistakes Undoubtedly, slip-ups, both small and large, are a commonplace inevitable aspect of our personal and professional lives. They are subject to a multitude of variables, irrespective of the meticulous preventative measures we employ. A mistake can creep in due to oversight, assumptions, fatigue, or simply because of our inherent fallibility as humans. Nurturing an Iterative Culture In line with her teachings on the importance of learning, Edmondson highlights the benefits of fostering an iterative culture. Within this model, organizations are encouraged to continuously learn and adapt their practices based on insights from mistakes and successes alike. The Decisiveness of Title Selection Book titles hold an integral role in attracting potential readers, and, as revealed by Edmondson, the process of naming a book can also be prone to errors. She discloses the careful consideration behind her book title, “Right Kind of Wrong” and the decision to exclude the article ‘the' for stylistic reasons. Despite noticing occasional erroneous inclusions, she garners a positive outlook from it, simply indicating that her work is being discussed and appreciated. Embracing this spirit of learning and adaptation even for individuals in positions of authority can serve as a powerful example for others and help cultivate a culture that wider society can emulate. Essentially, mistakes aren't necessarily a pitfall; they transform into stepping stones when approached with a psychologically safe, learning, and iterative mindset.

Ever felt the gnawing emptiness of burnout creeping in? Ever wished you had the tools to help you navigate through this daunting experience, especially in the realm of ministry? Well, I was fortunate to sit down with Jason, who has walked this road, fought the fight and come out stronger on the other side. With more than two decades of local church leadership under his belt, Jason candidly shared his journey of highs, lows, recovery and his newly penned book that seeks to help others in the same predicament.We delved into the nitty-gritty of burnout, identifying its signs, unmasking the hidden culprits, and stressing on the absolute necessity of self-reflection for reclaiming hope. With Jason's wisdom, we broke down the concept of boundaries as gates, not walls, and how these can serve as our protective barriers to keep our wellbeing intact. You'll hear from Jason on the power of saying 'No', setting healthy boundaries and how to keep the right people close.As we drew towards the end, we tackled the often difficult process of relinquishing control, especially when scaling a business or ministry, and the integral part trust plays in this. Jason also drove home the importance of health within ministry leadership, even recommending a resource, 'Fearless Organization' by Amy Edmondson, that underpins this. So, why not give this enlightening discussion with Jason a listen? Learn how you can not only stave off burnout, but how to thrive and burn brightly in all avenues of your life.

If you're human, then you've felt the disappointment of failure. Amy Edmondson, Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at Harvard Business School, helps us reframe the concept of failure, both in our personal and professional lives by sharing her research backed insights. Whoever you are in the world, this episode will help you discover intelligent failure so that you can limit preventable failures, stress and thrive. Amy Edmondson's Website: https://amycedmondson.com/ “Amy Edmondson, one of our finest business minds, offers a bold new perspective on human fallibility. With a graceful mix of scientific research and practical advice, she shows how to transform failure from an obstacle to a stepping stone — from a weight that holds us back to a wind that propels us forward.  RIGHT KIND OF WRONG is a guidebook for our times.” —Daniel H. Pink, #1 New York Times bestselling author of THE POWER OF REGRET and DRIVE Amy C. Edmondson is the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School, renowned for her research on psychological safety over twenty years. Her award-winning work has appeared in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times, Psychology Today, Fast Company, Harvard Business Review, and more. Named by Thinkers50 in 2021 as the #1 Management Thinker in the world, Edmondson's TED Talk “How to Turn a Group of Strangers into a Team” has been viewed over three million times. She received her PhD, AM, and AB from Harvard University. She lives in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and is the author of Right Kind of Wrong, The Fearless Organization, and Teaming. https://www.linkedin.com/in/amycedmondson/ https://twitter.com/AmyCEdmondson https://www.instagram.com/amycedmondson/ https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Right-Kind-of-Wrong/Amy-C-Edmondson/9781982195069 Watch Amy's TED talk: HERE --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/mindbodyspace/support

How do we embrace failure in a fast-changing world? Harvard Business School Professor, Amy Edmondson, is ranked #1 on the latest Thinkers50 ranking of the world's most influential management thinkers. Amy is the winner of Thinkers50 Breakthrough Idea Award for being a “pioneer of psychological safety and author of The Fearless Organization, a ground-breaking blueprint on creating a fear-free culture.” Amy is also the winner of the 2019 Distinguished Scholar Award from the Organization Development and Change Division of the Academy of Management. Named the Most Influential International Thinker in Human Resources by HR Magazine in 2019, one of Amy's books - The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth (John Wiley & Sons, 2018) - has been translated into more than 15 languages and is consistently among Amazon's top-sellers in the human resources category. Amy's latest book Right Kind of Wrong: The Science of Failing Well hits bookshelves and online stores on September 5, 2023. In this episode, we talk about organizational design and transformation, her research on psychological safety, the three type of failures: intelligent, basic, and complex, as well as self-awareness vs. systems awareness. Amy unpacks the connection between failure and regret. And we even brainstorm a new concept of a “discussability index” to evaluate team cohesion.

Diese Woche gibt es ganz viel wertvollen Input von einer sehr erfahrenen Psychologin, die sowohl in internationalen Konzernen große Projekte begleitet, als auch Einzelpersonen in Not und Krisen unterstützt. Ich spreche mit Nora u.a. über die vier psychologischen Grundbedürfnisse, was Menschen in Extremsituationen helfen kann, worüber wir beide in unserer langjährigen Freundschaft schon sehr viel gelacht haben und was Google in 2016 zur psychologischen Sicherheit in Unternehmen erforscht hat. Ein wunderbar vielseitiges, lehrreiches und vor allem interessantes Gespräch. Danke, Nora!Viel Freude beim Hören!‚More to explore' zu Folge 31: Von der Hilflosigkeit in die WirksamkeitEpstein, S. (1993). Implications of cognitive-experiential self-theory for personality and developmen- tal psychology. In D. C. Funder, R. D. Parke, C. Tomlinson-Keasey, & K. Widaman (Eds.), Studying lives through time: Personality and development (pp. 399–438). Washington, DC: American Psychological Association Grawe, K. (2006). ). Neuropsychotherapy. How the Neurosciences Inform Effective Psychotherapy. London, New York: Psychology Press Edmondson, A. (2019) The Fearless Organization. New Jersey: Wiley „Psychological Safety“ according to google research: https://rework.withgoogle.com/print/guides/5721312655835136/ Über Schlafstörungen in Europa: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25975374/Nähere Informationen zu Dr. Erika Maria Kleestorfer:Website: www.kleestorfer.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/erikamariakleestorfer/?hl=deLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-erika-maria-k-a18426/Buch: Purpose: How Decisions in Life are Shaping Leadership JourneysLove-Cards: https://produkte.kleestorfer.com/love-cardsEmail: office@kleestorfer.com Dieser Podcast wurde bearbeitet von:Denise Berger https://www.movecut.at

In her forthcoming book, Right Kind of Wrong: The Science of Failing Well, Amy Edmondson offers a new framework to think about, discuss, and practice failure wisely, using human fallibility as a tool for making ourselves and our organizations smarter.Amy Edmondson is the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School and the author of seven books, including The Fearless Organization, which has been translated into more than 15 languages. She was ranked number one on the 2021 Thinkers50 list, a ranking of the world's most influential management thinkers.Together with Martin Reeves, Chairman of the BCG Henderson Institute, Edmondson discusses the distinctions that can help us separate good failure from bad, strategies to decrease the cost of learning, as well as practical actions for leaders to establish a culture where intelligent failure is predominant.Key topics discussed: 1:13 | The distinction between failing well and failing badly9:36 | How to avoid the "illusion of knowing" and mistaking a mental model for a fact12:02 | Institutional and leadership-level moves to create an environment where intelligent failure is predominant18:27 | How to decrease the cost of learning19:42 | Can AI help to analyze the potential for failure or identify learnable lessons and failure patterns?This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

Steph Tuss is the CEO of multimillion-dollar global consulting company Life Is Now, Inc., and frequent stand-in cohost of Business Daily News' top-ranked podcast - The Successful Mind. Steph discovered her love for teaching at a young age, beginning her career as an educator. It was during this time that her firstborn child was facing health difficulties, and she decided to completely overhaul their diets to figure out the root cause. She went back to school to pursue a Master's Degree in Holistic Nutrition and went on to open a practice to help families who faced similar challenges. Fast forward a few years, Steph hired David Neagle and his team at Life Is Now, Inc., as her health practice's business coach. As she continued to scale her business, her love for entrepreneurship and growing businesses shined through. She sold her business at the age of 33 and joined Life Is Now, Inc. as the Director of Sales in 2009 before taking on the CEO role less than a decade later in 2016. In her six years at the helm of the company, Steph has become the primary driver behind all of Life Is Now's marketing, business development and brilliant team culture. As a recent empty-nester, she lives in Charlotte, NC with her husband and cattle dog, Jack. In her spare time, she enjoys traveling the country in her Airstream. Here's what we covered on the episode: How Steph Became a Leader As a child, Steph was always told to quit being bossy, which caused her to fly under the radar in grade school, but when she went to college, she became a teacher because it was an acceptable way to be a leader  In 2001, Steph had her first child, who had a lot of health issues - after extensive research, Steph discovered she was suffering from food sensitivities and wanted to teach and share what she discovered with other people Steph went back to school and got her master's degree in holistic nutrition, and began to build her business which grew very quickly The business started to plateau, so Steph hired David as a business coach, who is now her business partner - though his coaching Steph fell more in love with business building and mindset work than with nutrition After 3 years, Steph sold her business to work with David at Life is Now, where she started in sales and is now the CEO Steph talks about what led her to seek out a business coach to help her see what she needed to change to grow her business  How Steph said yes to every opportunity within Life is Now so she could learn all parts of the business and become a part of the leadership After the current CEO left, Steph took on the responsibilities of the CEO without her role changing - one day, she walked into David's office and told him he needed to make her the CEO, and he did  Now, Steph isn't just the CEO; she is also a partner in Life is Now    Establishing Good Culture + Team Synergy  One of the first big changes Steph made as CEO was establishing psychological safety because of the previous CEO, people were scared to share their opinions As a CEO, you have to model what you want to see other people do; that means being transparent about what you're learning, telling them when you don't feel confident, sharing when you make mistakes, and celebrating the good Steph would host workshops on how to give to receive feedback to get people comfortable with conflict because businesses are here to solve problems, and you need people to share their ideas to come up with solutions If you want to know more about psychological safety, which is the most important when it comes to developing culture, Steph recommends the book, The Fearless Organization by Amy Edmondson Next, Steph shares that they established a clear vision by taking the team through a vision process that's outlined in Cameron Herold's book, Vivid Vision When you follow this vision process, Steph says you'll usually hit your vision goals within one or two years because it creates focus synergy for your team  Big lessons Steph has learned are that mistakes are required and to not take results personally   By creating a visionary leadership assessment, Steph was able to see that there are 4 different types of leaders: Catalyst, Charismatic, Limitless, and Legacy Leaders  Go to lifeisnowinc.com, and you can find their visionary leadership assessment  Steph talks about the rebrand they recently went through that switched the company from being about a person to being about their ideal client  How a lot of business owners get stuck doing tasks that shouldn't be on their plate because they aren't good at delegating  Check out the Life is Now Website and connect with Steph on Instagram for lots of free industry and business resources   Links mentioned: Life Is Now Inc. Website The Fearless Organization by Amy Edmondson Vivid Vision by Cameron Herold Visionary Leadership Assessment Connect with Steph on Instagram   Like what you heard?  Click here to subscribe + leave a review on iTunes. Click here to download my Sales Page Trello Board Let's connect on Instagram!  

In this episode of Let Go & Lead, Maril talks with lauded author, scholar and Harvard Business School professor Amy Edmondson, whose pioneering research into psychological safety has massively impacted the world of work. Amy breaks down what psychological safety is, what it isn't and three key things leaders need to do to foster it.   Over a ranging conversation, she and Maril discuss the immense importance of leaders in the middle; why leaders need to maintain a beginner's mind; and why psychological safety — or, as Amy defines it, “permission for candor” — must be balanced with a commitment to excellence for an organization to succeed.   Learn about:  3:30 How to build a learning organization 7:03 Creating an environment of psychological safety 12:56 The changing dynamics of modern teams 20:23 Key misconceptions about psychological safety 22:51 Fostering psychological safety in uncertain times 32:32 The science of “Failing Well” 37:55 What leaders need to let go of   —  Amy C. Edmondson is the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at Harvard Business School, a chair established to support the study of human interactions that lead to successful enterprises contributing to societal betterment. Edmondson has been recognized by the biannual Thinkers50 global ranking of management thinkers since 2011 and most recently ranked #1 in 2021. She also received the Breakthrough Idea Award in 2019 and the Talent Award in 2017 from the organization. She focuses her research on teaming, psychological safety and organizational learning, and her articles have been published in various academic and management outlets, including Administrative Science Quarterly, Academy of Management Journal, Harvard Business Review and California Management Review. Her book, The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth (Wiley), published in 2019, has been translated into 15 languages. Edmondson's upcoming book, Right Kind of Wrong: The Science of Failing Well (Atria), offers a framework for wise thinking, discussion and practice of failure, utilizing human fallibility as a tool for personal and organizational growth. The release date is set for September 5, 2023.  ABOUT LET GO & LEAD   Let Go & Lead is a leadership community created by Maril MacDonald, founder and CEO of Gagen MacDonald. Maril brings together provocateurs, pioneers, thought leaders and those leading the conversation around culture, transformation and change.  Over the course of the past 12 years, Let Go & Lead has existed in many forms, from video interviews to resource guides to its current iteration as a podcast. At its core, it remains a place where people can access a diversity of perspectives on interdisciplinary approaches to leadership. Maril is also working on a book incorporating these insights gathered over the past several years from global leaders and change makers.     Maril has interviewed over 120 leaders — from business to academia and nonprofits to the arts — through the years. In each conversation, from personal anecdotes to ground-breaking scientific analysis, she has probed the lessons learned in leadership. From these conversations, the Let Go & Lead framework has emerged. It is both a personal and organizational resource that aims to serve the individual leader or leadership at scale.    ABOUT GAGEN MACDONALD At Gagen MacDonald, we are dedicated to helping organizations navigate the human struggle of change. We are a people-focused consulting firm and our passion is improving the employee experience — for everyone. For almost 25 years, we have been working with companies to create clarity from chaos by uniting employees across all levels around a single vision so they can achieve results and realize their future. We have been a pioneer in bringing humanity to strategy execution, leading in areas such as organizational communication, culture, leadership, and employee engagement. Our Vision is to lift all humanity by transforming the companies that transform the world.    Full episodes also available on:       Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/let-go-lead-with-maril-macdonald/id1454869525       Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5Gaf7JXOckZMtkpsMtnjAj?si=WZjZkvfLTX2T4eaeB1PO2A       Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9sZXRnb2xlYWQubGlic3luLmNvbS9yc3M   —   Gagen MacDonald is a strategy execution consulting firm that specializes in employee engagement, culture change and leadership development. Learn more at http://www.gagenmacdonald.com. 

Today's guest is Dr. John Austin, who has been in the OBM trenches as a student, professor, and frontline consultant for over 20 years.  Before continuing with the usual opening remarks, I'm going to make a rare ask of you. Two asks actually.  This is perhaps one of the most actionable podcasts I've published. If you listen to this show and act on some of the suggestions, you can improve your practice right away. And that's not hyperbole. So the first ask is to make sure you listen to the show in its entirety, and go to reachingresults.com/results-toolkit for additional support.  The second ask is that you take a few minutes and share this episode with friends and colleagues. In your workplace, you might even consider discussing this episode, and more importantly, John's book Results: The Science-Based Approach to Better Productivity, Profitability, and Safety, in your staff meetings.  In this episode, we cover: The evolution of OBM practice over the last few decades. Why OBM consulting in ABA organizations can be more difficult than other settings. How to form better relationships with the people you work with.  Ways to pinpoint and measure your interactions with colleagues and supervisees.  The importance of asking questions. Agreeing on, instead of setting expectations. Why the book Atomic Habits irks me.  John's conceptualization of Burnout and Psychological Safety. What is a Mastermind, and why might you consider joining one. Other resources mentioned include: The Fearless Organization by Amy Edmonson. Building a Psychologically Safe Workplace, a TedTalk by Amy Edmonson.  Teaching Employees How to Receive Feedback: A Preliminary Investigation (Ehrlich et al., 2020).  ABA on Reddit here and here.  Radical Candor: Fully Revised & Updated Edition: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity by Kim Scott.  HBR article: Good Leadership Is About Asking Good Questions. John's interview with Dr. Paulie Gavoni. My interview with Dr. Aubrey Daniels.  Rapid Change: Immediate Action for the Impatient Leader, by Joe Laipple.  This podcast is brought to you by: Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. And check out the Leadership CEU I mentioned here. ACE Approved CEUs from .... Behavioral Observations. That's right, get your CEUs while driving, walking your dog, doing the dishes, or whatever else you might have going on, all while learning from your favorite podcast guests!

Wer eine unkonventionelle Idee teilen, etwas hinterfragen, einen Konflikt lösen oder einen Fehler eingestehen möchte, der braucht vor allem eins: ein Gefühl der Sicherheit. Und zwar, dass sich aus dem Verhalten keine negativen Konsequenzen ergeben – weder für das Selbstbild oder die Karriere noch in Form von Schuldzuweisungen oder Vergeltungsmaßnahmen. Im heutigen Podcast spreche ich mit Psychologin und Agile-Expertin Natalia Krüger darüber, warum ein psychologisch sicheres Umfeld für den Unternehmenserfolg so wichtig ist und was ich als Führungskraft oder Teammitglied tun kann, um zu einem angstfreien Umfeld beizutragen. Viel Spaß beim Reinhören!

         In S 4 E 5 I am honoured to speak with Professor Amy Edmondson. Professor Edmondson is the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School. She is a world-renowned thought ( and action) leader in organisational learning, leadership and team work. She is however perhaps most known and regarded for her work in the area of psychological safety and team performance. In 2019 she published her book The Fearless Organization which I throughly recommend to my colleagues in healthcare.           In this conversation, which I am conscious only skims the surface of her incredible richness and depth of expertise and perspective, we discuss the origins of her research in healthcare teams and evolution over time.Although spanning  a broad range of professions and industries globally, Professor Edmondson offers a healthcare lens and perspective on her work. I am particularly keen to explore uncertainty and complexity in healthcare and the transient and "flash" nature of some of our teams coming together, sometimes  to care for the sickest patients.          My key takeaways from our conversation include:1. Local leadership really matters2. When it comes to building psychological safety, be explicit.3. Clinician wellbeing, like psychological safety, are the means to the goal, with is high quality, safe patient care.           Thank you Professor Edmondson for  generously sharing your time, expertise and a wide range of practical resources ( see below).  Your genuine curiosity to drive us forward has local and global impact."Success in an uncertain world depends on high-quality bets. High quality bets depend on high-quality conversations. These don't happen by accident. "Amy EdmondsonLinks/References/Resources:Professor Amy Edmondsonhttps://amycedmondson.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/amedmondson/ The Fearless Organisation Edmondson, Amy C. The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth. Hoboken, NJ: John Wiley & Sons, 2018.Recent HBR articles discussed:https://hbr.org/2023/01/rethink-your-employee-value-proposition https://hbr.org/2023/04/make-it-safe-for-employees-to-speak-up-especially-in-risky-timesRelated podcasts:Studying team culture and cultivating psychological safety in medicine with Dr Eve Purdy https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-mind-full-medic-podcast/id1513559414?i=1000541673839 The impact of behaviour on individual and team performance and why civility can save lives in healthcare with Dr Chris Turnerhttps://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/th The Mind Full Medic Podcast is proudly sponsored by the MBANSW Find out more about their service or donate today at www.mbansw.org.auDisclaimer: The content in this podcast is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified health care professional. Moreover views expressed here are our own and do not necessarily reflect those of our employers or other official organisations.

“It takes time to build that psychological safety, but I think it's a more important area than ever before in the modern workplace,” explains Dennis Garcia, Assistant General Counsel of Microsoft. Today, Dennis and Kim Yapchai, former SVP, Chief Environmental, Social, and Governance Officer at Tenneco Inc., discuss their career advice for developing in-house talent. Trust is something that needs to be earned over time, and creating a psychologically safe work environment is no different. With job turnover particularly high, it is especially important to find innovative ways to retain and nurture top talent within your organization. To develop your in-house talent, as a leader, it is important to be up front and open with your employees. This authenticity will help develop trust between leaders and teammates alike. Mentor the talent you have and give people opportunities to grow their skills. When employees feel understood, appreciated, and supported, they are less likely to look for outside career advancement.  Nowadays, employees, particularly those of the Gen Z and Millennial generations, are more likely to be attracted to jobs where they feel aligned with the company's values. By being authentic and up front from the very start, leaders can foster relationships with those employees who are the right fit for the work culture they are looking to create. Instead of trying to fight over the top talent in the pool, look in-house and put time into helping your current employees flourish.  Quotes “If people don't feel safe enough to speak up and be heard, the company loses out. You lose out on new ideas, on diversity of thought, and people letting you know when things are going wrong.” (9:25-9:43 Kim)  “It takes time to build that psychological safety, but I think it's a more important area than ever before in the modern workplace.” (10:47-10:57 | Dennis) “It is harder when you don't see people face to face in the office, you have to find other ways to connect.” (16:02-16:08 | Kim) “Build the network and your brand before you need it.” (25:39-25:42 | Kim) “When you reach out to people and you try to build those relationships, it's not all about how they can help you. It's how can you help them.” (29:10-29:18 | Kim)    Links Connect with Kim Yapchai: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kim-yapchai/ Connect with Dennis Garcia: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/denniscgarcia/ Buy a copy of Fearless Organization by Amy Edmondson: https://a.co/d/fP9z92s Connect with Chris Batz: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisbatz/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theliongroupkc  Instagram: @theliongroupllc Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm  

On this week's episode of Inside Outside Innovation, we sit down with Stephen Taylor, Chief Innovation Officer at Untold Content. Stephen and I talk about the importance of storytelling, failure narratives, and its impact on the innovation culture of companies. Let's get started.Inside Outside Innovation is a podcast to help new innovators navigate what's next. Each week we'll give you a front row seat into what it takes to learn, grow, and thrive In today's world of accelerating change and uncertainty. Join us as we explore, engage, and experiment with the best and the brightest, innovators, entrepreneurs and pioneering businesses. It's time to get started.Interview Transcript with Stephen Taylor, Chief Innovation Officer at Untold ContentBrian Ardinger: Welcome to another episode of Inside Outside Innovation. I'm your host Brian Ardinger, and as always, we have another amazing guest. Today we have Stephen Taylor. He is the Chief Innovation and Chief Financial Officer at Untold Content, where he focuses on helping organizations accelerate innovation through the power of storytelling. Welcome to the show. Stephen Taylor: Thanks Brian. Glad to be here.Brian Ardinger: This whole concept of innovation storytelling, it's becoming more and more popular as people are trying to understand like, how do I actually get movement on my innovation initiatives? And a lot of it comes down to, you know, the stories that you tell. So, I wanted to have you on the show, because you have a company that focuses on this. Why don't we talk about the definition? What is innovation storytelling? Stephen Taylor: Yes. Innovation storytelling is something that is near and dear to my heart. So, I am a chemist by training. I did my PhD in chemistry, did a postdoc. Went out into industry and was there for about a decade. And I felt the pains of how you actually get buy-in, even within a smaller organization. I think we had 250 people. But how do you actually get buy-in on ideas. Or how do you kill ideas that don't fit? You know, how do you find out what is the right decision. And so that was something that I became very passionate about. And so, when I left industry and joined Untold, I really wanted to spend a lot of time focusing on how do innovators communicate, even as a scientist. How do scientists communicate?So, what we found through our research is that innovation storytelling is the art and science of communicating strategic narratives and personal stories around innovation objectives in order to drive them forward. It really works on trying to make things that are very strategic, but also bring those personal experiences in.Because what we found is that organizations have overall these strategic narratives that, that they're trying to force. When you have an idea or something that you're trying to bring forward, you have to ensure that there's good alignment between those stories and that narrative. And so, they really play in concert together. So that's why we include both those as a part of the definition. Brian Ardinger: Yeah, part of it's like that translation service almost. Sometimes it's a technical translation of, what the heck are you talking about? It's more about how do you align that with the other stories that are being told in the organization so that you can make sure that people understand what you mean.I think, you know, when I go out and talk to companies, you know, one of the first things I like to do is how do you define innovation? Because I think that alone, causes problems with a lot of organizations. It's like, well, for me it means, you know, creating the next flying car. Where another person in the organization may mean that innovation is creating something new with our existing customers. And so, right. You know, if you don't have alignment from that perspective, you can go sideways really quickly. Stephen Taylor: We spend time talking about story led innovations versus innovation led stories. So, story led innovation is essentially a project that you may get from your advisor. Or from your boss. And so, a project comes in, the story's already aligned, so it's easy to prioritize that work.And so, you're just working on communication at that point, a strategic communication. But if you're working on a innovation led story, that's where you come and you find something. Well, now how do you get it in line? How do you make something that's new, that has potential that's maybe adjacent? How do you decide, how do you try to create that alignment narrative? And so those are, those are things that we teach as a part of our curriculum. Brian Ardinger: That brings up a couple of interesting questions I have around this idea of innovation usually is in this uncertain area. You know, it's, it's a new idea that you want to create in the world that doesn't always align to the execution side of the business. But yet you have to try these things and do a lot of things to move that idea forward, and a lot of times you're going to fail at that. So, can you talk a little bit about power of failure and, and how do you translate that from a story perspective to let people understand that that's part of the process? Stephen Taylor: Yeah, that's a really good question. So, there's a lot of ways that you can go with this. One way that we think about failure is actually relates back to the Hero's Journey. So, when it comes to the Hero's Journey, you know, you can take the whole 17 step process from Joseph Campbell and his original work on the Hero's Journey, or you can really try to simplify it.And the way that I like to think about it is you receive the call for a journey. You go out through a transition called the transition from the known to the unknown. You then go on your journey, you do your discoveries, whatever. You collect the boons from the journey, which are the gifts to be given back. You then bring those back through that transition point back to your community.And then the hero is recognized with monuments and statues and everything. Joseph Campbell's work was really based around tribal behavior. And when you think about tribal behavior, there's a lot of analogies to the innovation groups that are out there in the unknown trying to find what's next.For the heroes they get these large statues and monuments, but for the failures, they put together rituals. And because the rituals are points where we come back together and actually share best practices, share things that we've learned, to take those learnings from failure and use those to bless back to the community. And so, what we've seen through our research is that there are many points where people are starting to implement these failure rituals.And so, there's several different examples. There's a classic one, Ben and Jerry's. Ben and Jerry's Failure Graveyard is a classic failure ritual. There's Miter. Miter does Failure Cake. So, within Failure Cake, what happens is that they basically bring out a sheet cake into a cafeteria and they say, If you want a piece of cake, you need to share a failure story. And it's really to get those stories of failure being shared in those best practices and lessons learned.Then there's also DuPont. DuPont's doing an Annual Dead Project's Day around Halloween. And so, the whole point is to get lots of their innovators and their scientists together to share their experiences. But you have to have those points of sharing. And what we found in parts of our research is that 83% of large organizations share innovation stories, but only 26% share stories of failure.But because a lot of innovations fail, you lose so much. And so, implementing these, these rituals into their yearly practices can go a long way to capturing those insights, but also unifying their community. Brian Ardinger: So, do you have any tactics of, let's say I'm working in an organization, and I buy into the fact that I need to celebrate these failures and at least tell these stories so that you know that not everything's going to be a success when you go through something new. How do you get buy-in to even have a ritual, like a failure cake, or things along those lines? Stephen Taylor: A lot of times getting buy-in for that is showing the value that's created. So being an innovator, trying something first. And so, a lot of times what we've found is that people are really actually excited to share these failure stories. Because it's things that they hold onto that really drive them.And so, them being able to share those with the group is really strong. But one of the biggest values is actually hearing someone who is, let's say for instance, you have a hero because within the Hero's Journey, you have people that basically go out onto their journey, they come back and then they may never go out on a journey again.But that's not the life of an innovator, of a scientist. They constantly have to go back to the bench or go out and do stuff again. So, to hear someone who maybe is a hero from one project, and they have war that's existing for them. For them to say, hey, you know, here's a failure story of mine. Think of how that sounds to someone who's a new scientist or a new innovator that's really gung-ho on their first project.You know, to be able to hear that, you know, this may not work out and that's okay. I've had a whole slew of failures throughout my career. I'm still here and still doing great stuff. You know, that's really helpful and it helps people be able to realize like this is not my baby. You know, this is a project that I'm working on. We're going to push it as far as we can. We're going to try to achieve the goal, and if it doesn't work out, there's going to be the next thing. Brian Ardinger: So, let's talk a little bit about the process that a company can go through to tell better stories and to put this actually into practice. Are there particular methodologies or tactics that companies should be looking at or walk me through the process.Stephen Taylor: We had a podcast called Untold Stories of Innovation. And in that podcast, there was a qualitative research study. And one thing we wanted to hear is like how people utilize stories in their innovation cultures, but then also listen to the stories and dissect them. And we heard several different story frameworks used time and time again. And the two that are most prevalent are ABT and CAR.CAR is very well known. It has a lot of different names to it, but it's Challenge Action Results. And the importance of Challenge Action Results from a natural language processing standpoint is that it alleviates cognitive tension. Basically, says like, here is the challenge. Here's the action we took. Here are the results that we got.But in order to alleviate cognitive tension, we had to create cognitive tension. And that cognitive tension is actually created through a framework called ABT. That ABT (And, But, Therefore) is popularized by Randy Olson. The framework for ABT is ordinary world and something at stake, but there's some type of tension, there's some problem, there's something that's preventing us to realize the value that's there.Therefore, here's our proposed solution. And when those two get paired together, you basically have a framework to present and solve a problem. But then you can interlace into that lots of different story patterns. To make storytelling one very strategic and very mission focused, but also very purposeful and concise.Brian Ardinger: So, is this something that product teams and that at the beginning of the project start literally mapping out what story they think the new idea is going to go on? Or how does this actually work in practice? Stephen Taylor: It really works in practice by understanding who your audience is and what you're trying to get out of what information that you're needing, what buy-in you're needing. I'm really trying to map the story that you're sharing with that audience. Because there is no one story framework that rules 'em all. You know, you can talk about brand story, you can talk about Hero's Journey. There's a variety. And so, the more that you practice and practice from a standpoint of trying to understand your audience and what it is that they need in order to make a decision that you're hoping for them to make, that really helps you with crafting something that really gets at that goal. Brian Ardinger: So, I would imagine that the teams need to develop different types of stories. So, for example, inside stories where they're trying to communicate to management or other collaborators within the organization and that story of what they're building and why. May be different than an outside story, which would be maybe to the marketplace or to the consumers. Am I reading that correctly? Stephen Taylor: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. So prime example, we had an interview with Jim Murkowski from Ecolab. And they told a story about this new technology that they had developed for detecting Legionella, for Legionnaire's disease.And it was, you know, we do this whole breakdown of the story in our courses. He uses a framework, he uses CAR because it was in the past, we're informing people. So, it's challenge, action, results, and just it is the most clean, obvious innovation to do. They basically took a process that took two weeks to get results and now people can actually get that result in minutes. And make you know, really good decisions based on the information.But that story that you tell external is nowhere near what happened actually internal to that organization. Because Eco Lab was the group who actually did all the water testing. And so internally it was a story of self-disruption. Because you can imagine the feedback they got when they came out with this new technology and say, hey, we don't need to do testing in the lab anymore. You know, we don't need water samples. They can do it on their site. Everything was fear pushback. Like, oh, you know, the quality. Oh, you know, can you really trust them to do it right. You know, all these things. Because it was going to disrupt a lot of systems that they already had in their organization. So, the storytelling can't be the same because the challenge that you're trying to solve is fundamentally different.Brian Ardinger: How would you go about testing your stories to know if you have the right story to the right audience? Are there particular ways that you should be testing your stories or talk a little bit about that. Stephen Taylor: Having those ritual opportunities, there's a lot of these already built in. You know, groups have group meeting pretty often. You know, you get feedbacks through your emails when you're sharing information. There's lots of these points, but you had to look at them as being strategic. Innovators spend 30% of their work week in some form of storytelling. We put out a survey. We had a hundred people fill out the survey. It was 12 hours a week. We've worked with probably 300 to 500 innovators so far in the last year. They've completed the same survey. Theirs was like 12 to 15 hours a week. So, you're spending a lot of time either crafting stories, sharing stories, or listening to stories. And if you take that time very seriously and start thinking about it very strategically, you can start using those opportunities as a way to get feedback on the stories that you're sharing and seeing what is resonating, what is not resonating. So, these meetings, the emails, the water cooler conversations, those are all strategic points that you have where you can actually build up these skills. Brian Ardinger: One of the biggest challenges that I've seen working with companies is oftentimes you have different business units that value innovation differently. And so, telling that initial story that innovation is important, often sometimes falls on different audiences. So, do you have any advice or thoughts on how do you get alignment on just the concept of why innovation is important and the stories you need to tell around that? Stephen Taylor: Yeah, so, so that's a really good point. Always within any project, you know, project teams do this naturally is identify who are the stakeholders. But then are you actually going out and spending time with the stakeholders?Do you take a day? How much time could we save in our storytelling, if we took a very slow step, first, went and spent a day with our consumers or with our stakeholders and just heard the things that they talk about, you're not there to make decisions. You're just there to observe. What do they do? What are the major discussion points?Am I actually presenting information to them that they really care about. Or am I just throwing information out there that is not aligned with the conversations that they're having? If we can use storytelling to create those points of alignment between those business units that have different priorities, which most of them will, you can make the time that you're spending communicating more effective and more efficient. Brian Ardinger: How can someone learn to be a better storyteller? Are there particular things they should be reading or looking at, or resources they should be delving into? What's a good way to become a better storyteller? Stephen Taylor: Obviously at Untold, we have a course that's entirely built upon innovation storytelling. We really are the first group to really look at storytelling from an innovation perspective. We bring in a lot of peer review literature and really try to paint this cohesive, basically try to pull a lot of the information together on what is the best practices to date. And then how do we use these strategic frameworks and these patterns? So that's the first thing is that I'm going to plug in ourselves because I think that the experience that we create and the outcomes from the experience are really, really impactful.And what I'm going to say is that, again, storytelling is something that is evolutionary. You become a better storyteller. So you go through the trainings, but you don't stop there. You constantly look for new resources. And so one of the things that we give out as a part of our course once you complete it, is that you get a book on storytelling. But it could be something like the Fearless Organization because psychological safety has big impacts on people feeling like they can share stories.So, there's lots of books and there's lots of literature out there that you can continue to dive into. There are things like pep decks that have little introductory parts for storytelling. But it's one of those things that us as innovators who are not afraid to go out into the wilderness, into the unknown and take the first step is that we have to be able to do that with our education and realize that this is a journey as well.And the more that we learn about storytelling, the more that we see ourselves as innovators within these larger organizational narratives and also within our own personal story. Continue learning. Don't stop at one. Lots of perspectives out there on storytelling that are fantastic. For More InformationBrian Ardinger: Well, that's a great way to end because one of the last questions I always ask is, how can people, if they want to learn more, reach out to you and your company? Stephen Taylor: www.untoldcontent.com. You can also reach out to me. My name's Stephen Taylor. My email is stephen@untoldcontent.com. So, you can reach out to us in those ways. The other thing that I would recommend everyone look at is a new venture that we are starting up called Narratize.So, you can go to Naratize.com and at Narratize we are working on developing a storytelling platform for busy professionals. A communication platform for busy professionals. The idea is can you create a white paper in a day or in a couple hours. It's an AI-based tool that really helps you share the insights that you know to create these deliverables that you have to work on. So, it is currently a pitch builder. But it is quickly evolving into lots of other points of content. You can check us out at naratize.com as well. Brian Ardinger: Obviously the world is changing quite a bit with AI and Chat GPT and all these kinds of things and makes it easier and harder at the same time to tell your story. So yes, Stephen, I appreciate you coming on Inside Outside Innovation to share your insights on that. I look forward to continuing the conversation and hearing more stories in the future. So, thanks very much. Stephen Taylor: Awesome. Thanks Brian. I really appreciate it.Brian Ardinger: That's it for another episode of Inside Outside Innovation. If you want to learn more about our team, our content, our services, check out InsideOutside.io or follow us on Twitter @theIOpodcast or @Ardinger. Until next time, go out and innovate.FREE INNOVATION NEWSLETTER & TOOLSGet the latest episodes of the Inside Outside Innovation podcast, in addition to thought leadership in the form of blogs, innovation resources, videos, and invitations to exclusive events. SUBSCRIBE HEREYou can also search every Inside Outside Innovation Podcast by Topic and Company.  For more innovations resources, check out IO's Innovation Article Database, Innovation Tools Database, Innovation Book Database, and Innovation Video Database.   

What a great way to kick off the New Year!  We are so pleased to have had time with the remarkable Dr. Amy Edmondson from Harvard Business School.  Amy shares more of her groundbreaking insights on Psychological Safety and how it must be a central theme for managers if they are to truly tap into the performance capabilities of their teams.  This is one for the ages in the world of Bosshole® Transformation!Click HERE for Amy's LinkedIn profileClick HERE to purchase The Fearless OrganizationClick HERE to purchase TeamingClick HERE to download "What is a Fearless Organization"Check out these other episodes on Psychological Safety:Aaron Dignan - Brave New WorkJohn and Sara - Psychological SafetyJohn and Sara - Above the Line, Below the LineHave a BOSSHOLE STORY of your own?  Click HERE to inquire about being on the podcast!HERE ARE MORE RESOURCES FROM REAL GOOD VENTURES:Never miss a good opportunity to learn from a bad boss...Click HERE to get your very own Reference Profile.  We use The Predictive Index as our analytics platform so you know it's validated and reliable.  Your Reference Profile informs you of your needs, behaviors, and the nuances of what we call your Behavioral DNA.  It also explains your work style, your strengths, and even the common traps in which you may find yourself.  It's a great tool to share with friends, family, and co-workers.Follow us on Twitter HERE and make sure to share with your network!Provide your feedback HERE, please!  We love to hear from our listeners and welcome your thoughts and ideas about how to improve the podcast and even suggest topics and ideas for future episodes.Visit us at www.realgoodventures.com.  We are a Talent Optimization consultancy specializing in people and business execution analytics.  Real Good Ventures was founded by Sara Best and John Broer who are both Certified Talent Optimization Consultants with over 50 years of combined consulting and organizational performance experience.  Sara is also certified in EQi 2.0.  RGV is also a Certified Partner of Line-of-Sight, a powerful organizational health and execution platform.  RGV is known for its work in leadership development, executive coaching, and what we call organizational rebuild where we bring all our tools together to diagnose an organization's present state and how to grow toward a stronger future state.

You need to fail... Yes, I said it. Because failure is the fastest way to success when you're innovating. But it's surprisingly hard to fail. And this is a major problem. Why, you ask? Well, in our service design practice, failure is part of prototyping. You have an idea, you create something, you try it in the real world, learn from what happened, and based on that, improve your solution to repeat this process. See what I did there? You try and learn, that's the key. Trying something, you actually hope that it's going to work out differently than you planned so that you can learn. But when things don't work out as planned, this is often perceived as... failure. And failure isn't what most organizations embrace or celebrate. The truth is that they fail at, well yeah, failing. There are many reasons for this, but maybe the biggest one is a lack of psychological safety. Here's the kicker... Scientific research has proven that the best-performing teams have the highest degree of psychological safety. So how do you grow the appetite for failure in a risk-averse organization that is focused on maintaining the status quo? We explore that question in this week's episode with Stephan Wiedner. Stephan has done a lot of research on this topic and seen many examples of what works and what doesn't. So if you're interested in building a "fail-safe" environment in your organization, then you don't want to miss out on this conversation. One thing that surprised me in this episode was that you can objectively measure the levels of psychological safety. Of course, this is a great tool to show you and your CEO if you're heading in the right direction. Enjoy the conversation, and keep making a positive impact :) - Marc --- [ 1. GUIDE ] --- 00:00 Welcome to episode 164 05:30 Who is Stephan 08:30 lightning round 12:45 What is psychological safety 14:30 Why does it matter 15:15 Where is the lack coming from 21:30 The internal voices 23:30 A fail-safe environment 27:00 Strategy and tactics 31:30 Barriers to adoption 34:15 Awareness within organizations 38:00 Top-level management 42:30 What are you committed to 44:30 Measuring psychological safety 50:00 Myths and misconceptions 53:30 The results don't lie 56:45 What's next 58:30 Closing thoughts --- [ 2. LINKS ] --- https://www.linkedin.com/in/swiedner/ The Fearless Organization (book) - https://amzn.to/3hdAuZE The Culture Code (book) - https://amzn.to/3h7RH6M The Whisper on the Night Wind (book) - https://amzn.to/3iHa5UB Psychological Safety assessment - https://zarango.com/freepsi/ --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] --- Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. https://servicedesignshow.com/circle

Creative, innovative, high-performing teams with positive well-being that are engaged and committed to your business - every leader's dream, right? How to engage and motivate teams can seem complicated, but research shows us there is one factor more important than any other: Psychological Safety. Join us as we explore how to build teams that contribute positively to your workplace culture and performance, every day, with our guest expert Stephan Wiedner. Stephan is CEO of Zarango.com and Noomii.com, which are consultancy firms that train and coach business people on how to create and sustain a high-performance work environment through psychological safety.  With a vision to help build a world in which everyone has the courage to speak up and be heard, Stephan explains how employee voice is the driving force of competitive advantage and sustainable success. Links: You can find Stephan on LinkedIn and Twitter Claim Your Free Psychological Safety Assessment at zarango.com Hear more from Harvard Professor Amy Edmondson including her book The Fearless Organization, TedX Talk and latest academic research Learn more about Google's Project Aristotle For bonus content, full interviews and sneak peeks of future episodes, follow us on LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok and YouTube

This episode is an in-depth exploration of psychological safety, what it means for you as a leader, for your teams and your organisation. We share our own experiences, thoughts and advice and really do get personal to help you understand the importance of psychological safety.In this episode we share our own views, thoughts and experiences:02:50 – what do we mean by psychological safety11:42 – imposter syndrome and safety17:30 – the nuances of trust and psychological safety19:54 – fear, innovation and risk28:17 – psychological safety for your stakeholders35:15 – reputation management and a safe culture 40:55 – how to...As always we share our top takeaways and in this episode, we encourage you to have conversations about psychological safety and listen to your colleagues and stakeholders. Being mindful of the impacts of your own behaviours will go some way to supporting a psychologically safe environment and demonstrating your appreciation for feedback, no matter the outcome, will also help. In this episode we reference The Fearless Organization by Amy C. Edmondson. And we also mention the McKinsey research referenced in Leading Off. -----------------If you enjoyed this episode why not subscribe to the podcast. We would love it if you left us a rating or review and feel free to share the link to this episode with anyone else you think would find it interesting, using #HowToTakeTheLeadNew episodes will be released every Thursday and you can listen/ download on your favourite platform.To find out more visit www.howtotakethelead.com Enjoy this series and let us know what you would like us to cover in future episodes on Instagram @howtotakethelead or Twitter @How2TakeTheLeadMentioned in this episode:Join the How to Take the Lead communityWe're now on substack. Join a community of people who want to lead their own way. Get extra content and behind the episode discussions, take part in 'ask us anything' bonus episodes and a new leadership book club, plus much more. Visit www.howtotakethelead.com to sign up.

This week Sara and John address one of THE most critical topics of our time - Psychological Safety.  This is not some esoteric field of study - it is a measurable attribute that will make or break the success of a team.  Psychological Safety is about performance, and we dive into its elements and invite our listeners to reach out if you need to assess your team's Psychological Safety.Click HERE for our handout "What is a Fearless Organization?"Click HERE for our handout "Becoming a Fearless Organization?"Have a BOSSHOLE STORY of your own?  Click HERE to inquire about being on the podcast!HERE ARE MORE RESOURCES FROM REAL GOOD VENTURES:Never miss a good opportunity to learn from a bad boss...Click HERE to get your very own Reference Profile.  We use The Predictive Index as our analytics platform so you know it's validated and reliable.  Your Reference Profile informs you of your needs, behaviors, and the nuances of what we call your Behavioral DNA.  It also explains your work style, your strengths, and even the common traps in which you may find yourself.  It's a great tool to share with friends, family, and co-workers.Follow us on Twitter HERE and make sure to share with your network!Provide your feedback HERE, please!  We love to hear from our listeners and welcome your thoughts and ideas about how to improve the podcast and even suggest topics and ideas for future episodes.Visit us at www.realgoodventures.com.  We are a Talent Optimization consultancy specializing in people and business execution analytics.  Real Good Ventures was founded by Sara Best and John Broer who are both Certified Talent Optimization Consultants with over 50 years of combined consulting and organizational performance experience.  Sara is also certified in EQi 2.0.  RGV is also a Certified Partner of Line-of-Sight, a powerful organizational health and execution platform.  RGV is known for its work in leadership development, executive coaching, and what we call organizational rebuild where we bring all our tools together to diagnose an organization's present state and how to grow toward a stronger future state.

In this episode Sal Silvester and Amy Edmonson dive deep into the topic of psychological safety - what it means, the impacts of a hierarchical organization, how it applies to physical safety, the connection and potential of diverse teams and so much more. Amy Edmondson is the world renown expert on psychological safety and creating fearless organizations. She is the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School. Amy has been recognized by the biannual Thinkers50 as the #1 management thinker in 2021. Her most recent book, The Fearless Organization offers a practical guide for organizations serious about success in the modern economy and has been translated into 15 languages. You don't want to miss this important interview with Sal and Amy.

Welcome back to the Robin Zander Show! For today's episode I sit down with Eddie Hudson & Tullio Siragusa on the Tech Backstage podcast. The podcast goes behind the scenes with today's leaders who discuss the intersection of technology and problem solving, and applying Design Thinking to business. In this episode, we discuss how connection is essential for a courageous organization and drives innovation in business. I tell the stories of my first adult gymnastic class and opening Robins Cafe with no prior restaurant experiences - both of which involved growing comfortable with my fear. We also discuss supporting people within your organization on their own self awareness journeys and leading by "Love, Guide, Let go." I am thrilled to share this episode with you!

Carley Hauck is an acclaimed author, organizational and leadership development consultant, Stanford Instructor, sought-after speaker and executive team coach, who ignites conscious leadership in individuals, teams, and executives to activate business to be a force for good.She partners with some of the top organizations in the world supporting psychological safety, trust, inclusive leadership, innovation, and human centered cultures where everyone feels they belong.Carley is the founder of Leading from Wholeness, a leadership and organizational development consulting firm.  Her highest values are harmony, service through joy, learning and growth to create positive change in the world. For almost 15 years she has partnered with business stakeholders at leading Fortune 100 companies and high-growth startups to understand their organizational, leadership development, and culture needs including: Capital One, Pixar, Intuit, Bank of the West, Asana, Advent Health, LinkedIn, Clif Bar, HP,  Gilead and many others.She has strong expertise in designing and delivering highly effective engaging blended learning programs for high potential senior leaders/teams or specialized business needs.  These programs have reached thousands of employees. She has directly coached and mentored several hundred senior executives and mid-level managers across 10 leading organizations to radically improve engagement, inclusion, leadership competencies, and employee resiliency skills.  Carley brings a rigorous research approach to her work and all programs delivered, the measures and assessments used have been validated from her early days of consulting on NIH (National Institutes of Health) clinical trials and her work at Stanford University and UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business.  Since 2013, Carley has served as an adjunct instructor at Stanford University and UC Berkeley Haas School of Business.  and facilitates powerful courses on leadership and management.Carley's book SHINE-Ignite Your Inner Game to Lead Consciously at Work and in the World debuted February 2021 with Sounds True and was named one of the best books to read in 2022 by Mindful magazine.She holds an MA in Organizational Psychology. She is certified in the IEQ-9 Enneagram Leadership Assessment, a Psychological Safety Practitioner with the Fearless Organization, and a certified collective trauma facilitator with Thomas Hubl.Carley loves being outside on the trails in nature, practices yoga and meditation everyday, enjoys cooking healthy plant based meals, singing, SUP and swimming, and engages in ocean and nature conservancy.Show Notes: Carley shares the benefits she's gotten from going on silent retreats [6:05]Clarity of mind and shifting incessant recurring thoughts. [11:47]Carley explains what “Inner game” is from her book “Shine: Ignite Your Inner Game to Lead Consciously at Work and in the World” [15:45]She shares how her childhood influenced her career aspiration [18:17]Carley shares the routine she uses to create a strong conscious mindset every morning [24:30]Where she often sees leaders fall “out of balance” and what the true “power skills” are [35:42]How to confront and work through emotions instead of avoiding them [49:26]An example of a leader with excellent inner and outer game from her book and life [57:45]www.carleyhauck.comCarley's Book: ShineLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carley-hauck/Shine Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podca

Amy EdmondsonAmy is the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School, a chair established to support the study of human interactions that lead to the creation of successful enterprises. Best known for her groundbreaking work on psychological safety in the workplace, Amy has written a fantastic book called “The Fearless Organization, creating psychological safety in the workplace for learning, innovation and growth.” She is the author of seven books in total and more than 75 articles and case studies. Amy has been named in 2021, The #1 Management thinker in the World by Thinkers50 for her pioneering ideas on psychological safety in the workplace and transforming how companies operate, innovate and collaborate. She was also named the Most Influential International Thinker in Human Resources by HR Magazine in 2019.Insights from this episode:Psychological safetySpeaking up and being heardCultural differences in workplace dynamicsPurpose and fulfillment in workSpectrum of Mental Health illnessesValue creationCuriosity, Humility, and EmpathyQuotes from the show:“It's great to have psychological safety and feel like you can speak up, but it matters even more if you feel like someone's listening.” - Amy Edmondson“Healthy organization of the future would be one where the purpose is front and center is people's minds, where the culture is healthy, inclusive.” - Amy Edmondson“We all want to be a part of something larger than ourselves.” - Amy Edmondson“The first thing that companies need to do is truly differentiate and help identify  people who are having medical mental health challenges and get them the help they need. Nothing could be more important than that. “ - Amy Edmondson“Psychological safety is simply permission for candor.” - Amy Edmondson“Curiosity is the twin sister of humility.” - Amy Edmondson“Emotional inclusion is really a calling on companies to seriously invest in the mental health of their employees inside their organization, and really through a medical lens to see sustainable results because that's effectively what we're all after.” - Mollie Jean De Dieu“Make sure that our employees feel valued and cared for, and that they have a sense of meaning within their organizations.” - Mollie Jean De DieuStay connected:Amy EdmondsonLinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/amedmondson/Emotional inclusionhttps://www.emotionalinclusion.com/https://www.instagram.com/emotional_inclusion/https://www.linkedin.com/company/emotional-inclusion/

Join Eddie Hudson and Tullio Siragusa for a casual, educational conversation with Founder and CEO of Zander Media, about how to create a fearless organization and why he thinks that getting comfortable with fear is the key to learning anything new.

The "Great Unknown" in this episode is the question, "what am I going to do now, after my career just ended?" Minette Norman had a 30 year career in the IT industry, for the past 20 years with the same company and the last 5 as a VP. Leadership changed, and as often happens when leadership changes, she was now an outsider of the new leadership group. The environment became very uncomfortable until she finally decided it was time to leave. Now what? Friends had ideas. She had the belief that she was not entreprenuerial, and after much soul-searching, she stepped into the fear and started her own leadership consulting practice. We talk about rebuilding confidence after a job loss. We talk about the importance of continuous learning. We talk about her new book, The Psychological Safety Playbook, that will come out in February of 2023. And we talked about asking yourself, "Can I give that a Whole Body Yes?" Episode Takeaways: 1. We are not done yet, unless we want to be. We still have so much to give. 2. Never stop learning! 3. Be open to new experiences 4. Embrace "what if..." Treat everything as an experiment. Thanks so much for listening. Subscribe on Apple Podcast, Stitcher , Google Podcast. or Spotify Follow up on Facebook and Instagram You can email me with questions or comments at wendy@heyboomer.biz – Wendy Green is a Certified Life Coach, working with people going through the sometimes uncomfortable life transition from full-time work to “what's next.” Find out more about Wendy's 6-week “What's Next Transition” Coaching workshop – You can email Minette at minette@minettenorman.com or connect wiht her on her website at minettenorman.com  Transcript Welcome to the Hey Boomer Show. My name is Wendy Green and I am your host for Hey Boomer. And we go live every Monday at 1:00 Eastern Time on Facebook, LinkedIn and YouTube. Hey, Boomer is a show for people who believe that we are never too old to set another goal or dream, a new dream. It is for lifelong learners who are finding meaning and purpose in their lives and living their best life at this next stage of life. The push is on for the Hey Boomer Walk to End Alzheimer's and I want to thank my Walk to End Alzheimer's team. Prudence Taylor, David Bell Ann Golden, Doris McLallen are on the team in Greenville, South Carolina. Melanie Whitlock is building a team in California and Bernadette Wagner is building a team in Maryland. So we are all in the fight to end Alzheimer's. And anybody who joins our team is going to get a cute, Hey, Boomer hat that you can wear for the walk and then you can wear proudly afterwards. To join our team or to make a donation, If you don't feel like you can walk with us. You would go to act.alz.org/HeyBoomer. So help us walk to end Alzheimer's. I also wanted to mention the What's Next group coaching program. This program helps answer the question Who am I now? Who do I want to be? And how am I going to feel useful and relevant again? It's a six week group coaching program. At the end of six weeks, you're going to have a six month plan. And if you're really motivated, you might even have a one year plan to get yourself moving in the direction that's going to feel good to you. That's going to feel like you are on the right path to your next act. You can set up a 20 minute free consultation with me using this calendar link. It's calendly.com /heyboomer/20min, it's 20 minutes that could change your life. And if you want to check out the website first, you can just go to heyboomer.biz/coaching. Today, you know, we're going to talk about stepping off into the great unknown. And I thought it would be good to give you a little background for myself. In February of 2009, my beloved father passed away. Within two years my second marriage ended. I moved out of my beautiful home. I sold my business for a loss. And I found myself sitting in a group program about being grateful. And at the time, I was struggling to figure out what I was grateful for. I was depressed. I felt depleted. My heart was closed. I just didn't know what I was good at anymore or what made me happy. I rejoined the corporate world. And then in 2017, I got laid off because of a corporate merger. Took another job. And then in March of 2020, the pandemic shut down the place I was working, and there I was again. What was I going to do? But this time I decided I was going to start a show that was going to inspire people and help all of us through that time. So I started, Hey Boomer, in April of 2020, and it wasn't long after I started, Hey Boomer, that I experienced this amazing sense of freedom. And it came over me that I could say what I wanted to say. I could be authentic. It was my show. And if people didn't want to listen to what we were talking about on the show, they could turn it off. But it was finally an opportunity to really be authentically myself. And it felt great. And I think that is what stepping off into the great unknown will do for you when you find that passion. It can be very unsettling. It can be terrifying, but if it matches your passion and as you settle into it, you will begin to feel that sense of freedom also. And that is what we're going to talk about today. I am going to bring Minette on because I'm super excited about this conversation. Hi, Minette. Hello, Wendy. So glad you could join us today. Thanks for inviting me. Yeah. Let me do a quick overview of your background and then we'll get into more detail. So Minette spent decades in leadership roles in the software industry. Her last role before leaving the company was as vice president of engineering practices at Autodesk. She began her consulting practice, Minette Norman Consulting LLC in the spring of 2020. Her passion is to develop transformational leaders who create inclusive working environments with a foundation of psychological safety. Minette was named in 2017 as one of the most influential women in the Bay Area business by the San Francisco Business Times and as business role model of the year in 2018 by the Women in Silicon Valley Awards. And she is a recognized leader with a unique perspective. Minette is also the co-author of a book about psychological safety for leaders. The Psychological Safety Playbook: Lead More Powerfully by Being Human, which will be published in February of 2023. Oh, boy. And she's also finishing up another book on inclusive leadership. So you've been busy since you left your corporate job? Yes, I have. Absolutely. Well, let's start there. Like, why did you decide after 20 or 30 years in the industry that you were going to step out? You know, that question could be the whole podcast that we're doing today. It's a really long, it could be a really long answer. So I'm going to try to try to give you a succinct answer to that question. But maybe I'll start by saying I had this amazing career. I spent three decades in the software industry. I didn't expect when I started in 1989 as a technical writer at Adobe that I would end up 25 years later as a VP. I just never considered that. But I did. I had this amazing run. And I guess the short answer is that I had a fabulous career that ended really badly, and the way it ended badly was it was kind of insidious. I didn't quite see what was happening, but with hindsight I can see it very clearly. There I was in this VP role. I was appointed by an SVP who was kind of my sponsor. And when he left the company, that was really the beginning of the end. But I didn't see it so clearly at the time. I got a new boss who was a former peer and he was the peer I got along the least well with, of course, and suddenly he was my boss. And then after I think maybe a year, he brought in a new VP. And so basically the new VP was my boss. I was moved down a rung. And then what happened? This was really the unraveling was this new VP who was my boss. Gradually he did a big reorg and almost all of my responsibilities were taken away. And I had this I had had a very large, very impactful role that really was a wonderful role. And I loved it. I worked with like 3500 people around the globe. I had a big staff, I had big responsibilities, and those were taken away. And at the same time, what I didn't see and that I can see so well now is that basically they were just they were trying to get me to leave because I was now, you know, when the leadership change, they no longer really needed my services, but they didn't say that explicitly. And instead I got some really unpleasant things happen in that I won't talk about because I've signed one of those non-disparagement agreements, so I just am not going to say what actually happened, but it resulted in me leaving and I didn't plan on leaving when I did, but I did. So there I was in 2019, late 2019, and didn't have a plan. Yeah, and that is so common when leadership changes that everything gets shook up and they don't want you. So you didn't have a plan. And, you know, one of the things that we've talked about before we are doing the show live was so how did you feel? What did you do? What do you mean? That's pretty scary. Yeah, I really I didn't have a plan. So, you know, it's kind of interesting when you leave under those conditions, you're always leaving to pursue new opportunities. That's sort of the verbiage. You know, Minette is leaving to pursue new opportunities. And one of the things that was in my mind had been sort of planted by a good friend of mine. And we were attending a nonprofit gala event and we were sitting at a table and he said to me, You know, Minette, you'd be a really good executive director for a nonprofit. And, you know, he's a good friend who's known me for a long, long time. And I thought, what a great idea. And so I started looking around and I got really far into an interview process with a local nonprofit that was looking for a new ED. And it's very good that they ended up picking someone else. And the process took a really long time because midway through it I realized this is not what I want. You know, this was sort of like someone else's idea of what I should be doing, but it wasn't what I really wanted. And I knew this because I'd been on a nonprofit board for several years, and I know what the ED goes through and how hard it is to work with a board and all of that. And I thought, No, I don't want to do that. So that idea sort of faded away. And then, then I was back to Now what? Now what? And one of the things yeah, one of the things that I really knew, like in that last job that I had for five years, I had been, you know, my on paper description was to transform engineering practices across the company and really modernize how we develop software. But what I was actually doing was changing the culture and changing how people interacted. And really I was doing a lot of work on diversity, equity and inclusion and trying to have more inclusive leadership. And in my mind, that's really what was important to me. And I was spending more and more energy on that even when I was in the job. So as I was doing some soul searching about what I might do next, I thought, well, well, maybe I can do that work working for somebody else, right? So whether it's another company or another. Consulting firm. I definitely never thought I'm going to start my own business because, you know, there was part of the self talk that we do. I said to myself, I am not entrepreneurial because I've always worked for somebody else for my entire career. So, you know, the words we say matter. I'm not entrepreneurial. I believed that. And so then I was introduced to another woman who was starting a consulting firm, and she wanted to hire a group of women. She was very deliberate about hiring a group of women who would be leadership consultants and that we would help build better workplaces. And so I thought, well, this is perfect. I don't have to start my own thing. I can go work with her. And so I actually spent a few months meeting with her and meeting with the small team she had assembled, and I was ready to sign on. And then she offered me an agreement. It was a legal agreement of how we would partner. And as I'm reading the fine print, I see that it says that she and her firm would own all perpetual rights to anything I created, whether it was a workshop, a talk, written materials, blog posts, whatever. And honestly, one day that was the aha moment for me where I realized, okay, this is what I have. My intellectual property is really all I have. And people are interested in hiring me because of this experience and knowledge. And I can't give that away. I absolutely cannot give that to anyone. I have to own that. And so I realized, okay, if you want to own it and you want to make the decisions yourself, that means you're going to have to start your own thing. And so that's what I did. There's so much in what you just said. Minette So when did you actually leave the company? I left Autodesk in August of 2019, 2019. So it took you a little over a year to kind of figure out what you were going to do next and go through that journey. It was actually about it was about six months, I guess, because it was like August. And then by kind of the same time you were starting this podcast, I had decided to launch my business. So that's like what, six, seven months? And of course, both of us doing this right at the beginning of a pandemic. The pandemic. Right. That's what we do. Yeah. So you talked about some of the self-talk, you know, like, oh, I'm not an entrepreneur or, you know, or I mean, I think our self-talk can definitely get in our way. And how did you manage to shift that to Oh, well, I could be an entrepreneur and I am an entrepreneur. You know, that's a I don't have, an easy answer to that because I think it was all a very gradual process. Part of it was getting over the fact that my self confidence was so shaken I had to. So when I left when I left Autodesk, I really felt very damaged because I felt like I thought I had a bunch of credibility and that manager that I had made me doubt that. And so I had to really kind of rebuild my my strength and my my belief in myself. And part of that for me is always talking to people that know me like I have I have really good close friends, but I also have a network of trusted ex-colleagues and friends I've made through work and really just talking to them about like what really went down. Am I seeing this clearly? I also I will tell you a little sort of a funny story that when I left Autodesk, because I'd been there 20 years, I knew a lot of people I'd I'd had a very big platform those last five years. So many people had heard me speak or knew me. And I got all these emails as you do when you leave a company you've had a long time. So before I left, I get I had I mean, there were well over maybe there were 100 or 200 emails and I'm like, I can't I don't want to forward all these to my personal account. So what I did is I went through them and I actually copied and pasted some of them, the ones that were like the most meaningful to me. And I put them into one document. So I had this sort of encouragement document of like people who said, you made such an impact, you were really a role model, whatever it was. And I, I went back to that document, however corny that sounds, I would sometimes read the comments in there just to realize that like, okay, you didn't imagine that you, you, you were a good leader and you really did have a positive impact on many people's lives and careers. And so kind of just gradually rebuilding my confidence, I would say, took several months and I was kind of a wreck when I walked out of there. And by the beginning of of 2020, I was starting to feel better. I remember it was just before the pandemic shut down. I did a speaking engagement in San Francisco, and that went really well. And then someone I knew from Salesforce invited me to come in and do a workshop, and it was a leadership offsite. And I did a workshop and it was completely in my wheelhouse and in my comfort zone. And it was. Was great. It went really well. And that gave me that confidence of like, okay, you've just had two wonderful experiences. People wanted you to come in, they appreciated what you had to share. And I was very energized by that. And that that experience was like, okay, well, there's something here. Let me explore what that was and what that is and what that might be. And the first thing I did, because I'd been in tech for so long as well, let's, let's just build a website not knowing what I was getting into. But I thought, well, if I have a website, I have a business. And so I built my first website which I have since turned over to an expert. But at the time that was like, let me do something tangible. And that just sort of got me going. And the other thing that's funny about that, though, because of the timing is I had a website, I had announced my business and every budget was shut down because of the pandemic. So that's right. Right. Everyone I reached out to was like, Oh yeah, we'd love to bring you in, but all of our budgets are frozen. So in a way that was kind of good because it gave me that 2020 period to figure out what is my offering going to be, what is my sort of, as they say, the value proposition that I uniquely can provide. And I took I took a class that was being offered by someone who has his own leadership consulting practice, and he's really successful. How how? Adler And I took this class with him, and he gave us very practical tips for like, how do you run a leadership consulting business? And that was so helpful to like even just practical things like how do you do proposals, how do you do invoicing, how do you do marketing, etc.? So that kind of built my confidence. And then going into the end of 2020 and into 2021, I got my first client and then, you know, it starts to go from there. Yeah, no. And I appreciate your vulnerability about that because, you know, I felt the same way when I got let go in 2017. I was building a training department, I'd built their online university, I was enjoying my job, and then it just went away. And it does rock your world. It does shake your confidence. And it's so funny that you said about your list of positive comments that you got because I did the same thing with you. I did. I did the same thing. And, you know, every once in a while, I, I still will go back and look at things that people have written to me or that I've written to to recenter myself. Because I think as human beings, we sometimes do get off center. And I think fear is a big thing that gets in the way of people. And I was just curious about, you know. Of like fear. There's an acronym. Fear is false evidence appearing real. Right. So we we look out and we go, oh, people are never going to buy our product or they're never going to sign up for what I'm doing. And then you have to step into it. Right. And so some of what you did was, like you said, you took a class. You talk to people. You know, I think part of what people have to realize, we're not alone. Right. So how how are you working that network now and still stepping into that courage that you have to continue to have as a solopreneur? You do. You do. Because I honestly especially because I still feel I'm very new to this this consulting world is that each new engagement, each new potential client, each new introduction is like, okay, can I do this one? Like I did the last one that gave me a little bit of a confidence. But can I can I do this engagement? Is this so? I remind myself, I often remind myself of what I've done before that has worked and that was good and and also what went badly. I haven't had any absolute disasters in my consulting so far, but there are definitely things that didn't go as well as I wanted or things that I would do differently. So just that continuous, like what? What went well, what can I repeat? What can I learn from? What can I do differently? But I also I really I'm a very social person. And so being a solopreneur wouldn't work for me unless I did have this really supportive network. And so I talk to people a lot and I bounce ideas off of people and I'll talk. I know we're going to talk a little bit about the book that's coming out, but I now have this fabulous colleague in Germany who's my co-author on this book that I wrote, and she's also a leadership consultant. And so she's someone when I'm working on something, I bounce a lot of ideas off of like, how would you do this? How have you done this? And just having someone to talk to when you're in business for yourself is really helpful. And I have others as well. And, and even how this person, his company is called Leadership Landing. And I remember like I had gotten a potential client soon after I took his class and I had no idea how to price something. Right. Pricing is actually really hard, especially when you've worked inside. Like I remember when I used to hire consultants when I was a VP and we'd pay him $25,000 for a one day thing, you know? And then when I was out on my own, I'm like, How could I possibly charge that kind of money? Right? So I had no idea how to price my offering. So I actually remember shooting at Hal a text and like I have a proposal to write. How would you even think about pricing this? So having a group of trusted people in the somewhat the same space has been really helpful and has given me confidence. And I remember when I, when I did my first engagement and it was someone who I had worked with at Autodesk and she brought me into another company she was working with. And I totally underpriced. I completely underpriced when I realized how much time I would have to spend on it. And that's that's okay. That's a learning experience. Like, okay, now I need to charge more next time. Yeah, yeah. None of it's fatal, but it's just like you learn as you go and you keep iterating. It is a learning experience. I think that's part of the journey that we're on and that's part of the confidence to right. You start to price yourself a little more as you gain your confidence. Exactly. You realize how good you are. So let's talk about your book, Psychological Safety. And I'm curious what it is. And then I know it's geared to the corporate world, but I'm wondering if there's an application for it as people are moving into this next transition in their lives. Okay. So let me first explain the basic definition of psychological safety, which is and it's not it's not only for the corporate world, it is basically a team phenomenon. So any team, any group you a part of and what it is, is that you have the belief in this group that this is a safe place for you to ask a question, for you to take a risk, make a mistake, and really show up as yourself without fear of embarrassment, humiliation, rejection, ostracism. Right. So that you can in this group, you can challenge someone in the group. You don't have to agree with everybody. That's the basic concept of psychological safety. The research around it, which has one of the biggest researchers in the space, is Amy Edmondson from Harvard, and she's written a book about it called The Fearless Organization. The research has shown that when you're in a psychologically safe environment, you're more innovative because people can share those wild ideas, right? People are not afraid of sharing their ideas because it is a safe place, but also that teams perform better when you have a safe environment and when you don't have it, what happens is that people feel compelled to agree with everyone else. You get this conformity bias because it's not safe to be the one who descends and who says, you know, I have a different viewpoint on this. So that's that's the basic concept. We we decide so how the book came to be. And then I'll talk about your I'll answer your question about your personal and your personal world. So so the how that how the book came to be is I, I hid under under stood the concept back when I was at Autodesk. And in fact I had found Amy Edmondson research. I tried to hire her as a keynote speaker at one point, so I had found her research. Google did a huge study called Project Aristotle that was written about in the New York Times around 2018 or 15. I forget one. So that came out and people started to understand the term beyond academia. So I had understood it, but I had also lived and breathed the absence of it. Right. And I had I had been in and it wasn't just like a toxic environment that I ended up in at the end, but it was. Even being part of a leadership team that was fairly functional. We were really careful, like we were careful with what we said and what we didn't say and we didn't challenge the leader of the group even though he was a good guy, but he didn't invite challenge. You know, he kind of you kind of needed to agree with him. And so it wasn't many of the teams I was a part of were not particularly safe environments. And I remember this feeling of like holding back, being in a meeting and having something I wanted to say and then just holding back and go, God, I don't dare, I don't dare, you know, or and when I did, sometimes, you know, a couple of things would happen. Sometimes people would just ignore you because they didn't want to hear it, and sometimes you'd get an eye roll or just it often wasn't a good situation. So I had definitely been aware of the term, I had experienced it. I had been in rare teams where there was a high level of psychological safety and realized like how powerful that is and how much you can get done when everyone can fully contribute. So I was a real believer in it. And then speaking of classes, so in last year, last spring, I signed up for a class that was based on Amy Edmondson, Zork, and it was to do psychological safety assessments. So basically it was a certification program in her methodology to be able to go into a team and run an assessment on psychological safety. In this class, there were probably about 20 or 25 of us, and we were divided up into smaller groups. And in my smaller group was this woman named Colleen Helbig, who's this leadership consultant in Germany. And she and I just hit it off. And I was on a podcast with another of our students, and she heard it and she emailed me and said, We have to save this email forever because the title of the email said Crazy Idea. And she wrote to me and she said, You know, Minette, I heard you on the podcast and you said, There's not much material that's practical, like how leaders can actually increase the level of psychological safety in their teams. And she goes, I feel that too. And I have this crazy idea. What if you and I wrote a little she wrote pamphlet. The word she used was, What if we wrote a little pamphlet about it? So that was the beginning. And we got on a zoom call and we set up an online whiteboard, or she did, which was great, and we just started brainstorming and we ended up collaborating on a short, deliberately short, but it's not a pamphlet, a full book on how to increase psychological safety. It's called The Psychological Safety Playbook lead more powerfully by being more human, and it's coming out next year. And the idea is that it's really something that you as a manager or a leader in any field could pick up off your shelf, turn to any page because it's got discrete tips in there and and pick up a tip that you might want to try out with your team. And so that's how that all came to be. And we're excited about that. But I do want to answer your question about developing. I think your question was, can we have psychological safety for ourselves? Is that what it was? Yeah. And let me give it a try. Right. Okay. Because listening to what you said and here we are, we've stepped into this great unknown. We're solopreneur as we're trying to build our business. And I would think like I have a board now of advisors, and so I run ideas by them and I feel very safe running my ideas by them. And sometimes they go, Yeah, that's a really great idea. And other times they'll say, Oh, I think you really need to think that. So I think for personally in my own business, I can see psychological safety. In your personal life, there are certainly going to be people that it's not safe to be say things with. That's absolutely right. That yeah, absolutely. I mean, you ideally you want to surround yourself with people with whom you can be real like that you can always be real and that you don't have to hold back. But of course, there are people in your lives where you do, you are cautious and you you choose your words wisely. And that's normal, too. I think one thing is in your personal life is that is maybe not about psychological safety, but it's like, what do we give ourselves permission to do? You know, that's that's more the way I think about it for yourself is. Yeah, yeah. What do what do we let ourselves do and not do? But in terms of our relationships, there's that. Can I. Can I be real with this person? Yeah. And you know what? That makes me think you brought this up earlier too, about the shoulds and the expectations. And I think a lot of the time that we follow those shoulds and those expectations that people have of us, it's because we feel it's safer. You know, it would be so much harder to say to them, oh, that's not really that doesn't really fit me or Yeah, I don't know that that's what I really want to do. It's easier to just say, Well, if that's what you think I should do, okay, I'll go ahead and do that. So I think it plays out there too. And, and having the courage, that was a big thing. Having the courage to say, you know what, it's my time in life now and I don't have to do it. Everyone expects I have to do what I expect, what I feel good about. So, I mean, you've experienced that transition, too, right? Totally. And, you know, I think about you like I'm going to start a podcast, right? Like, did did anyone try to talk you out of that or did you just say, I know I want to do this in my heart of hearts? Sure. A lot of people I mean, a lot of people said to me, how are you going to make money with that? You know, and I wasn't sure at the time, and I'm still developing ways to make money with it. But I knew in my heart minute I knew I had to do this because I knew that there were going to be a lot of people that needed this positive, inspirational, inspiring stories of other people in similar situations. Yeah. And so I just had to do it and, and I just it gave me the strength to say, don't worry about it, I'll figure it out, you know, and it will happen and it will grow. And yeah, it was scary. But it is. It is, you know, it's it's very interesting. I didn't know this term until Caroline introduced me to it. And I think it's from the conscious leadership group. The term you may have heard is can you give it a whole body? Yes. And you heard that term? No, I love that. I do, too. We were talking about Caroline and I were talking about what we might and might not do to promote our book. And she said, like, I don't want to waste time on things that that sap our energy. I want to spend time on things where we can say with our whole body, yes, yes, we want to do this. We're all in on it. Our heart, our mind, our spirit, we all want to do this. And so I really like I ask myself that when I'm hearing the shoulds in my mind, like you should be you should be sending out some emails this week to try to get some more clients. And I'm like, Do I really want to do that? No, I actually want to work on this project. Right, right. And my whole body is saying yes to this and not to doing prospecting emails. Right. That's not what I need to be doing. I want to be doing. So I know and it's not so much that other people are telling me what to do. It's the voices in my own head saying that you should be doing this and doing that. And, you know, we're hard on ourselves. That inner critic is is active all the time. Well, and we've both been leaders and companies. And so when you are used to all the shoulds that things that have to get done, the goals that you have to meet, yeah, you definitely do that to yourself. And I like that whole body. The whole body, yes. Yeah. The book that that's in is is I think I think it's called The Conscious Leader 1515 Tips for the Conscious Leaders from the Conscious Leadership Group. And it's a really good book. Yeah. That's what it comes from. And then I think there's a book, another book called The Whole Body. So anyway, it's it's a known term now, but I'm I'm embracing it, definitely. Yeah, I really like that because it's. Yeah. When you're when you. You know, I make a to do list every week for the whole week and then I do have to prioritize. Know what is it? I guess I look at it two ways. Mannat and tell me if you do something similar. First of all, I look at it and say, what do I want to do? What's going to make me excited? And then what do I need to do to bring in more business? And then the rest of it can kind of go by the wayside and study. I also am studying all the time. Oh, yes, yeah. No. And that's I think that's one of the most important things that I am reading voraciously and listening to podcasts and listening to audiobooks. Because in reading articles, because I feel like, you know, I actually, I, I was going to say imposter syndrome and I hate that term, so I'm just going to leave that one out. But I always feel like there's more to learn and I don't want to feel like I'm stagnating in terms of what I know and what what my body of knowledge. And so I'm I feel like that reading and listening and and informing ourselves is just a constant part of this work. And, and I enjoy that. That's not something I feel like you should be doing. Although there are times when I'm like, I want to read a novel and I should be reading this business book. And so balancing that is an act sometimes, right? It is. So I have my novels by my bedside, my schedule, and I get up early to do some of my early morning. Work type of reading. But you're right. I mean, there's so much to learn. And and and some of it is just reinforcing stuff that we know. That's right. And in fact, I was talking to my sister about this the other day, you know, that we we read something and we learn what we're ready to learn at that moment. And then we go back and look at it another time. Maybe a year later, two years, and you're like, Oh, there's so much more here. You're now ready for more. That is absolutely true. And I have I'm pointing down to my floor here because my shelf is over here. But I have like this stack of business books that I recently ordered that I want to read. And I found one that I had read quite a while ago that I picked up again. And it was like, Oh yeah, I just totally have a different perspective on it. It's so. Interesting, deeper understanding of what what that's. About. Yeah, it's so interesting how that happens. So where are you finding the best places to kind of reach out to the audience that you're looking for? Oh, so the the whole social media question or. Social media in person networking. What are you. Yeah. I have not been doing much in-person stuff yet because of because of COVID. I mean, honestly, just I haven't I've had like two in-person speaking events this year, but the rest has all been virtual. So I've mostly been doing LinkedIn as my primary platform for connecting with people a little bit on Twitter. I use Facebook for personal stuff. And you know, it's really interesting now because the personal and the professional have blurred so much like I know an author that I met who does everything everywhere. So her Facebook is all about promoting her work and I haven't done that. So I mostly LinkedIn for my for my work. But, you know, it's so interesting with this book, these books coming up because the first one is in February and then the inclusive leadership will be out later in 2023. And so building an author platform is a whole thing that I'm just getting started on. And so, you know that that's where my energy is, honestly, right now is like not as much client work as much as trying to build this author platform. Although I have a client engagement with a new client this week. So yeah, it's a it's a mix. And of course everywhere I meet anyone, I'm talking about the book and we have a URL for the book so people can sign up for our mailing list and things like that. But you'll definitely have to let us know when the book comes out. So I. Can. I can promote it to my audience, too. Oh, I will, I will. Yeah. And the social media thing is, you know, I've been taking some classes about promotion and podcasting and growing the audience and and, you know, they say pick two to get really good at. Exactly right. Don't spread yourself across all of the different platforms because they're all different the way. They are all different. So what are your two that you use for the podcast that are your go to ones? Yeah. So I use Facebook because I also have a private group on Facebook for people that are going through this transition to what's next. And so it's a place where we can share ideas and ask questions and that kind of thing. So I really love having that. And then LinkedIn is, you know, there's so many people on LinkedIn that are now in our stage of life. Yeah. And either they've been pushed out or they are thinking about what's next. And so I think LinkedIn is. You know, I think LinkedIn is an interesting place because you have to combine the personal sometimes with the professional so that they get to know you as a person. You know, you and didn't you and I connect because in my viral post about turning 62, that's how we connected, right? Yeah. That's such an interesting story because I had until then been very work focused on LinkedIn. Like when I would post, it was always about my work, those client work or whatever. And for some reason I had turned 62 in June and I had this compulsion to write a post on LinkedIn about anyway, it was personal, but it was also about like ageism in the workplace and, you know, having the freedom to be my own boss and that sort of thing. So I posted that the day after my birthday and it is the first time a post of mine ever went viral. And I had like 1.5 million impressions and 25,000 reactions in 2000 comments and hundreds of shares. And I'm like, What was that? And how am I ever I mean, since then, I haven't had any posts even close to more than 10,000. So yeah. How do you get the 1.5? I would love to get 1.5 million when I start talking more about my book. All the time. And it's my friend Laura that's on this call right now that that pointed me to your post. And. That's right. You know, you've got to connect with her. And of course, the minute we connected, I was so excited and I felt like a kindred spirit. Absolutely. And you know, what was so interesting about that post is how many people reached out to me through private messages. And I ended up having several Zoom calls with people, women who were dealing with the same thing at this stage of their life. Some younger, some a little older. But like, what's next? I've been forced out, you know, trying to reinvent. And there's so many of us. There are so many with so many. Talents and so much energy and so much wisdom and so much to give. And everyone's trying to figure it out. Right? And the ageism is rampant. And it is. And we are not done yet. We are not done yet. Very interesting. Many of the comments were about diversity, equity and inclusion. And several people said, you know, DEI is so popular now and yet no one talks about ageism. When they talk about aspects of diversity, that's the one that seems to be left out. That's right. That's right. So I always like to ask my guests at the end of the interview if they have two or three takeaways. Now, there's been so much we've talked about, so I know it's going to be hard to narrow it down, but do you have a couple of things you'd like to leave with people today? Yeah. I think the first one has to be that you are not done yet no matter who you are and where you are. Like you have so much to give and it's really figuring out what's what's important to you and what is that whole body. Yes. That you want to move forward with and what can you cast aside? And so so you're not done yet unless you want to be. And if you want to be, then embrace what that next phase is. If it's truly retirement and that you want to enjoy time with friends and family, that's cool. But if you don't want to be done, you are not done. And I guess I mentioned it earlier, but I think that what's so important to us is that we never stop learning. And I am absolutely convinced that continuous learning is what keeps us vibrant and relevant and engaged in the world. And one of the things that I learned about taking classes is that it's not only what you're going to learn, but it's who you're going to meet in those classes. So I met my co-author in Bonn, Germany, and an online class, right? Who knew we were going to be friends and colleagues and write a book together? You just never know who you're going to meet in a class. And I've met some amazing people in classes, and they are people who help me with my work going forward. And so maybe a third, you said two or three. I think my third and final would be that one of the things that made our collaboration so successful for Caroline and me is she often would say things like, What if we da da da and she's like, What if we set ourselves a little deadline? And it would be very non-threatening, but to embrace the idea of what if and like treat everything like an experiment. And what if I tried this and what if I did that? And learn from what works and what sticks and what feels good and cast aside the rest and that what if and that treating things like an experiment is very freeing and very it's not as scary as like I'm going to. Instead, it's like, what if what? That's a brilliant. Those are brilliant. And those with tie in together the continuous learning and the what if because you're learning and that whole body. Yes I love that. Thank you. Thank you. I've been sharing how to reach you. You can certainly email minute at but at minute at minute, Norman And you can check out her website at Minette. Norman So get in touch with her. Let her know how much you liked this and sign up for her next book. Thank you so much for having me, Wendy. It's been great to talk to you and I'm looking forward to staying connected with you as well. Me too. Me too. Me too. Just remind everybody. Join our walk to end Alzheimer's. Hey, Boomer team. I see that Kathy joined while we were doing the show, so thank you, Kathy. It's active ALS dot org slash go to slash hey boomer and connect with us on the Callan Leon well on hey boomer dot biz slash coaching or sign up for a 20 minute free session to just kind of talk about where you're at where you want to be, how you might want to get there. And you probably don't even know yet. So so let's have a chat next week. Next week should be interesting. My guests name is Deborah Benfield and Deb is the founder and owner of Body in Mind Nutrition, a group practice of registered dietitian nutritionists. Deb contends that there is an a just diet wellness culture that leads to a lack of body respect in the pro aging movement. And Deb wants to blaze a path to elder hood without the scales. So we stop worrying about how much we weigh and what we're eating and those kinds of things. And I want to leave you with the belief that we can all live with passion, live with relevance, and live with courage. And remember that you are never too old to set another goal or dream. A new dream. My name is Wendy Green with Minette Norman. And this has been. Hey, Boomer.

In this episode of Partnering Leadership, Mahan Tavakoli speaks with Jim Detert, John L. Colley Professor of Business Administration at the University of Virginia's Darden School of Business and author of Choosing Courage: The Everyday Guide to Being Brave at Work. In this conversation, Jim Detert shares how we can become more courageous by developing our courage capabilities. Jim Detert also shares how leaders can nurture a psychologically safe organizational culture, enabling and encouraging more courageous interactions and decisions at work.  Some highlights:-Why attributing courage just to historical figures can be counterproductive -The importance of being more courageous and how to develop our courage muscle-Jim Detert on the benefits of courage at work-How leaders can create a psychologically safe environment that encourages team members to speak up and contribute their best at workMentioned:-Amy Edmondson, Professor of Leadership at Harvard Business School and author of Fearless Organization and Creating Psychological Safety-Vanessa Bohns (Listen to Partnering Leadership conversation with Vanessa Bohns)-Gary Bolles (Listen to Partnering Leadership conversation with Gary Bolles)-Difficult Conversations by Bruce Patton, Douglas Stone, and Sheila Heen-Radical Candor by Kim Scott-Giving Voice to Values by Mary C. Gentile -The Silent Language Of Leaders by Carol GoldmanConnect with Jim Detert:Jim Detert WebsiteChoosing Courage on AmazonJim Detert on FacebookJim Detert on LinkedInConnect with Mahan Tavakoli:https://mahantavakoli.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/mahan/ More information and resources available at the Partnering Leadership Podcast website: https://www.partneringleadership.com/

Welcome to another episode of the Rational Reminder Podcast! We start by reviewing The Fearless Organization, and learn some important concepts such as psychological safety in the workplace, allowing people to voice their concerns, and the value of continuously learning. We also discuss a paper on index investing followed by a quick discussion on gender equality in finance.  We then take a deep dive into today's main topic, ‘Stocks for the Long Run…?', by unpacking research to see if stocks are still a valuable long-term investment. Finally, we end the show with a conversation about our 22 and 22 book challenge with Mark Sutcliffe, and find out about his reading habits and the books that have had the biggest impact on him.   Key Points From This Episode:   An update about the podcast and feedback received about the crypto series. [0:03:55] A rundown of the guests we have planned for future episodes. [0:07:43] Outline of the ‘mixed-bag' reviews received about the show. [0:08:28] News and updates regarding the Rational Reminder reading challenge. [0:13:07] This week's book review of The Fearless Organization by Amy C. Edmondson. [0:14:45] We talk about an interesting paper ‘On Index Investing' [0:24:42] Follow-up on and discussion concerning gender equality in finance from previous episodes. [0:28:34] We dig into today's main topic, ‘Stocks for the Long Run.' [0:33:38] Issues surrounding using Stocks for the Long Run data to draw insights. [0:35:22] What has been achieved to solve issues regarding a lack of data on stock returns. [0:41:45] An important insight from research on the value of stocks and bonds in the long term. [0:47:17] A breakdown of some interesting findings from the paper, ‘Global factor premiums'. [0:48:00] Overview of the research discussed and whether stocks are still valuable long-term investments. [0:53:54] The Rational Reminder 22 and 22 book challenge conversation with Mark Sutcliffe. [0:55:09] What Mark has discovered about the world of social media while working remotely. [0:56:58] Mark shares details about his reading habit and his favourite books growing up. [0:57:53] Whether he has a favourite genre of book. [01:00:11] How Mark sources books to read and how he captures interesting information. [01:00:44] The books that Mark commonly recommends to family and friends. [01:03:05] Find out if Mark thinks being an author changes how you read books. [01:05:12] Advice that he has for people who want to read more. [01:06:33]

Use of the term “Psychological Safety” has increased dramatically over the past 20 years. Find out why all of us may have got Psychological Safety all wrong ——————– Here's some key messages from this episode: – Why Psychological Safety is a group based phenomenon – What the Psychological Safety Triad is – How Psychological Safety on it's own is not enough ——————– Here's … The Fearless Organization [Book Review ] Read More » The post The Fearless Organization [Book Review ] appeared first on Element of Inclusion.

Hace unos días leía el libro La organización sin miedo (Fearless Organization) de la conocida autora Amy Edmondson y de verdad me gusto bastante ya que trata un tema importante y que siempre ha estado en vigencia NO solo ahora.Este libro habla de crear «seguridad psicológica» en el lugar de trabajo para el aprendizaje, la innovación y el crecimiento, y ofrece una guía práctica para equipos y organizaciones que se toman en serio el éxito en la economía moderna (con o sin pandemia).

As a society, we've certainly made some progress in honoring the contribution of the LGBTQ workforce. But, there are still minds, hearts, teams, and companies that do not engage and where people, irrespective of what group they identify with, do not experience psychological safety. And so we thought that during the Pride Month, it would be more relevant than ever to release the interview with the mother of psychological safety, Amy Edmondson. Amy is the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School with a long standing academic career. She's the author of The Fearless Organization and in this podcast, we explore why the fear of taking interpersonal risks will destroy your culture and any DEI efforts you might have undertaken.    To join CultureBrained, go to tiny.one/culturebrained

In this episode of Partnering Leadership, Mahan Tavakoli speaks with Jim Detert, John L. Colley Professor of Business Administration at the University of Virginia's Darden School of Business and author of Choosing Courage: The Everyday Guide to Being Brave at Work. In this conversation, Jim Detert shares how we can become more courageous by developing our courage capabilities. Jim Detert also shares how leaders can nurture a psychologically safe organizational culture, enabling and encouraging more courageous interactions and decisions at work.  Some highlights:-Why attributing courage just to historical figures can be counterproductive -The importance of being more courageous and how to develop our courage muscle-Jim Detert on the benefits of courage at work-How leaders can create a psychologically safe environment that encourages team members to speak up and contribute their best at workMentioned:-Amy Edmondson, Professor of Leadership at Harvard Business School and author of Fearless Organization and Creating Psychological Safety-Vanessa Bohns (Listen to Partnering Leadership conversation with Vanessa Bohns)-Gary Bolles (Listen to Partnering Leadership conversation with Gary Bolles)-Difficult Conversations by Bruce Patton, Douglas Stone, and Sheila Heen-Radical Candor by Kim Scott-Giving Voice to Values by Mary C. Gentile -The Silent Language Of Leaders by Carol GoldmanConnect with Jim Detert:Jim Detert WebsiteChoosing Courage on AmazonJim Detert on FacebookJim Detert on LinkedInConnect with Mahan Tavakoli:https://mahantavakoli.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/mahan/ More information and resources available at the Partnering Leadership Podcast website: https://www.partneringleadership.com/

Do your employees feel safe asking questions or admitting their mistakes in the workplace? Amy Edmondson, Harvard Business School Professor and author of The Fearless Organization, shares why psychological safety in the workplace is critical to foster employee performance and innovation. She details how a psychologically safe environment creates a culture where talent can feel safe to express their left-field ideas, correct their mistakes, and turn half-finished thoughts into the next big thing. This interview originally aired in 2019.

How should we support our staff during an international crisis? Listen to Randy, Wendy, and Eric discuss how to lead others when war is top of mind. They also review the article, 10 Things Your Corporate Culture Needs to Get Right, and talk about Amy Edmondson's book, The Fearless Organization.

We all want to work somewhere where we can share ideas, celebrate success and collaborate well across different departments. But, as Jenni points out, this often becomes tricky when competitive environments, big egos, gossip, passive leadership or low morale are allowed to fester. In this 15-minute episode, she also shares five fixes on how to bring people together. You can continue the conversation with Jenni on Twitter and LinkedIn RESOURCES Influential Internal Communication by Jenni Field https://redefiningcomms.com/influential-internal-communication-book-jenni-field/   The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable by Patrick M. Lencioni https://uk.bookshop.org/a/9752/9780787960759   Dare to Lead by Brené Brown https://uk.bookshop.org/a/9752/9781785042140   Poles Apart by Alison Goldsworthy, Laura Osborne & Alexandra Chesterfield https://uk.bookshop.org/a/9752/9781847942951   Blog: How to avoid team friction – from poles apart to pulling together https://redefiningcomms.com/how-to-avoid-team-friction/   The Fearless Organization by Amy C. Edmondson https://uk.bookshop.org/a/9752/9781119477242

Some of the biggest risks for cyber security frameworks come from employees meant to maintain them. The reason for that is simple, and it couldn't be more human - people who don't feel well don't perform well.  Today we talk with Nyota Gordon, the founder, developer, and all-around do-gooder at Transition365, a cyber resiliency firm that helps cybersecurity professionals increase their leadership and life skills. Nyota digs deep into the intersection between cyber security, resiliency, and personal wellness. She shares with us some mental health strategies that will improve our well-being and, as a consequence, our work performance.  When you finish listening to the episode, make sure to connect with Nyota on LinkedIn.  Mentioned in this episode: Nyota on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/nyotagordon/ Transition365 at https://transition365.com Brené Brown, Shame Resilience Theory at https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1606/1044-3894.3483 Symantec Cyber Resiliency White Paper at https://informationsecurity.report/whitepapers/symantec-white-paper-the-cyber-resilience-blueprint-a-new-perspective-on-security Amy C. Edmondson, The Fearless Organization at https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KLT8RKM/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i0 Charles Feltman, The Thin Book of Trust at https://www.amazon.com/Thin-Book-Trust-Essential-Building/dp/0988953862/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1646648424&sr=1-1 Empathy in Tech at https://empathyintech.com

De aanleiding is soms een incident (remember Talpa) maar de onderliggende vraag is veel belangrijker. Want de feiten liegen er niet om. Psychologisch veilige teams:• hebben minder verzuim/verloop• halen betere resultaten• zijn innovatieverEn dat is wat telt!In deze podcast gaan Remy Gieling en Hans Janssen in gesprek met Joriene Beks, auteur van het boek ‘Psychologische Veiligheid' over het werk van dé wereldwijde autoriteit in dit vak: Harvard professor Amy Edmondson:• Wat is psychologische veiligheid precies (en belangrijk: wat niet!)• Hoe maak je een team psychologisch veilig• Wat is je rol als leider van een teamAmy Edmondson komt naar Amsterdam op 19 september 2022 bij Amsterdam Business Forum, het nieuwe leiderschapsseminar van DenkProducties. Een buitenkans! Check: www.denkproducties.nl

The best leaders make it a point to create cultures in which everyone is empowered to speak openly and candidly.  We need to have a mindset where everyone knows that its not their right to challenge each other - its their obligation. In the Marine Corps is was called Speaking Truth to Power.  All Marines, at every level are encouraged to speak out to leaders who are willing to listen.   As a professional aviator, the ability to speak openly without fear of reprisal or admonishment is an absolute requirement for safe and effective operations.  There are many an accident that is directly connected with a pilot's inability or refusal to speak out with candor. In this episode we also re-visit my April 2020 conversation with Amy Edmonson, Harvard Professor and author of The Fearless Organization, that drives home the power of being Respectfully Candid. You can listen to the entire episode with Amy Edmonson here: podcast/amy-edmondson/ This show is made possible by MetPro.  Invest in your health. Be the best version of yourself. Optimize your nutrition and fitness increases energy, creativity, and productivity.  Visit MetPro.co/dose to receive a free month of coaching.

Psychologische veiligheid is belangrijk voor je bedrijf. Het helpt medewerkers om te zeggen wat ze dwars zit, wat ze horen in de markt ook wanneer dit tegen de visie van de ondernemer in is. Het helpt mensen om te zeggen wat er mis is zodat je er samen aan kunt werken om dit te verbeteren. 'Door dit gesprek met Tom heb ik veel geleerd en inzichten gekregen van het boek en het Nederlandse landschap op zelfsturing, leiderschap en het belang van psychologische veiligheid hierbij.' Echt bekend werd Amy C. Edmondson van haar werk in het Aristoteles project bij Google. Het boek is opgedeeld in drie delen: De kracht van psychologische veiligheid Psychologische veiligheid op het werk Een angstvrije organisatie bouwen Support the show: https://krant.nlSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Carley Hauck is an acclaimed author, organizational and leadership development consultant, Stanford Instructor, executive coach, and sought-after speaker who teaches people, leaders, and teams to lead consciously from the inside out and develop a workplace and a world that prioritizes people and planet first. Carley is the founder of Leading from Wholeness, a leadership and organizational training firm. She has over 15 years experience in designing and developing impactful change management, training, motivational keynotes, and inclusive leadership/manager development programs at some of the best organizations in the world including: Stanford University, Intuit, Pixar, Asana, LinkedIn, Capital One, Bank of the West, Clif Bar & Company, UC Berkeley's Haas School of Business, UC Berkeley's Greater Good Science Center,  high growth startups, and more.   Carley's new book Shine-Ignite your inner game to lead consciously at work and in the world debuted February 2021 with her publisher Sounds True.  SHINE will be Internationally Released during this event!Carley also hosts the Shine podcast with over 50 inspiring episodes.  The podcast explores how business leaders are bringing innovative leadership skills, high performance, and awareness practices to advance a more sustainable, just and inclusive workplace and world.   Carley holds a Masters degree in Organizational Psychology and is one of the first Certified Psychological Safety Practitioners by the Fearless Organization. Leran more from Carley at:https://carleyhauck.comCarley Hauck (she/her/hers) | LinkedInWant to book your spot for Back2Basics Experience?  Visit:BACK2BASICS EXPERIENCE | Leticia Latino

Do you know how to make the most of your relationships.Leadership and success all relates to how well we relate to others.  Invest in your relationships and you will achieve great dividends. This week we are joined by David Nour of the Nour Group.  Nour is the best selling author of 11 books, including Relationship Economics, Return on Impact; Co-Create and his latest offering Curvebenders.During this amazing interview, Nour shares the secret to his success and how to invest in relationships that reap great rewards.Nour considers that "relationships as you single biggest and most sustainable differentiator" as a leader.The key is to give without expecting anything in return.  To genuinely take an interest in people; help them when they need it; and they will in turn be willing to help you at some point in the future.When receiving help you need to express gratitude; return that help when needed; and pay it forward to others.The concept behind Curvebenders is that these relationships turn into non-linear relationships that accelerate your personal growth and success.I personally learnt so much from Nour and I know that you will as well.  Don't miss this inspiring and helpful interview.For more information on Nour you can head to nourgroup.com You can find the forum that Nour mentions at nourgroup.com/forum I highly recommend Nour's range of books including the groundbreaking "Curvebenders" on Amazon here - https://www.amazon.com/David-Nour/e/B001JSAUUW/ref=dp_byline_cont_pop_ebooks_1 The 2 books that Nour mentions in the interview are Lords of Strategy and Fearless Organization by Amy EdmondsonYou can find more information on The Leadership Project at the following links:You can join our Private Facebook Community at the following link - https://www.facebook.com/groups/334571975014326               Follow The Leadership Project on all of our social channels as follows:To follow us on The Leadership Project you can find us on:LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-leadership-proj                     Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/TheLeadershipProj                       Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/theleadershipproj                        Twitter - https://twitter.com/leadershipproj1                        Website - www.mickspiers.com                    YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPG9X7weoI4Xs3SreZab1rQ  

On this week's episode of Inside Outside Innovation, we sit down with Karin Hurt, Co-author of the new book, Courageous Cultures: How to Build Teams of Micro-Innovators, Problem Solvers, and Customer Advocates. Karin and I talk about the difficulties and opportunities with creating a culture that values innovation and curiosity, and how companies can develop productive micro innovators. Let's get started.Inside Outside Innovation is the podcast to help new innovators navigate what's next. I'm your host, Brian Ardinger, founder of InsideOutside.IO. Each week, we'll give you a front row seat to what it takes to learn, grow, and thrive in today's world of accelerating change and uncertainty. Join us as we explore, engage, and experiment with the best and the brightest innovators, entrepreneurs, and pioneering businesses. It's time to get started. Interview Transcript with Karin Hurt, Co-Author of Courageous CulturesBrian Ardinger: Welcome to another episode of Inside Outside Innovation. I'm your host, Brian Ardinger. And as always, we have another amazing guest. Today, we have Karin Hurt. She's co-author of the new book, Courageous Cultures: How to Build Teams of Micro-Innovators, Problem Solvers, and Customer Advocates. Welcome to the show, Karen. Karin Hurt: Thank you so much for having me. Brian Ardinger: Karen, I am excited to have you on the show. I just got a chance to read through a preview copy of the book and excited to dig into that. Tell me a little bit about how you got interested in this particular topic.Karin Hurt: Yeah. So, I run a company called Let's Grow Leaders. And we work with human centered leaders all over the world with practical tools and techniques. So we were noticing a consistent pattern. As we were going into organizations, we'd be working at the very senior levels of organizations. And we would hear things like why don't more people speak up. Why don't people share ideas? Why do I stumble upon a best practice? Why are people sharing them with one another? And then we would go into do leadership training at the supervisor level. And we would hear things like nobody really wants my ideas. Last time I spoke up, I got in trouble. You know, why bother nothing ever happens anyway. We thought, are you all working for the same company? So, you know, most leaders really do want ideas and employees have great ideas to share. So why was there this disconnect? So, we partnered with the university of North Colorado on an extensive research study to answer that question. When people were holding back ideas, what kinds of ideas were they holding back and what was preventing them from speaking up and sharing ideas to improve the customer experience, the employee experience, or productivity in a process. That's a little bit about why we got so excited about this research. Brian Ardinger: So, let's dig into it. What makes a culture courageous? Karin Hurt: You know, our favorite definition of culture comes from Seth Godin, the marketing guru, who just says culture is simply people like us do things like this. And so, when you're talking about a courageous culture, people like us speak up. They share ideas. The default is to contribute. People are coming to work every day saying, huh, how can I make this better. And managers are proactively going out and asking for those ideas and responding well when people share them. Brian Ardinger: So clearly that is not the case in a lot of organizations, at least the ones that I've worked with and have been around. It's not always courageous. What do you think makes it so difficult for people to speak their truth or overcome that particular fear? Karin Hurt: Yeah. So, Dr. Amy Edmondson of Harvard who wrote the Fearless Organization, you know, she's really a pioneer of psychological safety. And she talks about people are more likely to hold onto a negative experience than a positive experience. And that really played out in our research as well. We would ask people; we did a whole qualitative set of interviews in addition to the quantitative study. And we would say, okay, if you're holding back an idea, you know why? And they would say, well, because you know, something bad happened in the past. Was okay, how long ago was that?And you wouldn't believe it. Sometimes people say, well about 10 years ago. And then we would say, well, was it at this company? Oh, no, no, no. I was away at some place completely different. But it was enough to teach them that speaking up is scary. So that's one piece of it. And then, you know, other things that came out in our research, 49% said, I'm not regularly asked for my ideas. Something as simple as that.And when we got underneath that binding, the managers are saying, well, I told them I have an open door. And the problem with an open door is it's passive. And for some people, especially if they've had a bad experience in the past, it still takes some level of courage to walk through that open door. And another thing that people said, which the most surprising finding quite frankly for me was 56% said, they're not sharing ideas because of fear they will not get the credit. And, you know, as fascinating. As I've been sharing that statistic people like aha. Yeah, well that happened to me too. And  so, I think that really resonates with folks. And then another statistic that I thought was really interesting was 50% said nothing will ever happen. So why bother?And sometimes that nothing will ever happen. Isn't actually true. Something has happened, but the loop isn't closed. Right? So, people think their idea went into this black hole, you know, and because we're not circling back. So, whether it's an employee survey, it's a suggestion box. It's in a one-on-one meeting. Are we closing the loop and what we call responding with regard to the ideas that are coming forward? Brian Ardinger: That's a fascinating insight, because I see that a lot when we talk with corporations and what are their innovation efforts. And a lot of them say, well, we're doing these hackathons. Or challenges and asking for employee feedback.And that's great to do that, but what they fail to do is put the process in place and what to do with those ideas after they come through the funnel. And like you said, be able to either close the loop or have a process that moves those particular ideas forward. So, you don't have this environment where people throw things in and, and again, like you say, the black hole of nothingness. And they get discouraged to do it again.In the book, you talk a lot about this loop between clarity and curiosity, kind of back and forth. Can you talk a little bit about that and why that's so important? Karin Hurt: Yes. So, when you're building a courageous culture, it really does start with clarity. And that's clarity around two things. One clarity that you really do want people's ideas. And we found this to be really, really critical as we were testing the different tools and techniques. Clarity about where you need a great idea. So, you know, not just going out and saying, hey, do you have any ideas to improve the business? Or what do you think we could do to improve productivity? That feels intimidating. Yeah. That's like, well, gosh, where do I start? I have so many ideas. So instead, if you say, can you tell me one idea that you have to and then fill in where your strategic initiative is. You know, to improve our diversity, equity, inclusion efforts. One idea to take this new product to market. One idea to go into this new customer space. One idea to improve the customer experience. When you can ask for that, and that constraint actually owns up the creative process. And then it's showing up with curiosity. And proactively going out and asking people for their ideas. And we have a variety of tools to do that. You know, one is simply asking courageous questions. And a courageous question is simply a specific and vulnerable question. So, one of my favorite comes from a client of ours. I've known Don Jaeger for 10 years, and he has been consistently asking this question and he's moved from a couple of companies, and he continues to do this. And it worked so well for him. He's the COO of his contact center company. What is one policy we have that just sucks. Now he's asking his frontline agents. The people answering the phones, who are talking to the customers all day long. He knows if they have a policy that is annoying the customers, those folks, the ones that are hearing it. And it's vulnerable because he's the COO.I mean, he either has made the policy or is endorsing the policy, that's pissing off the customers. And so, he finds that when he asked that specific vulnerable question, Then he's got a conversation going, and then he says, oh, thank you. What else? And now it's created a safe space for people to share what else is on their minds? He's said this he's gotten a lot of really good insights around that. Another example of curiosity is teaching people how to vet their ideas so that they bring you better ideas. And one model that we use, and we teach in our training programs is our idea model, which is okay, when you're thinking through an idea.Tell me why is this idea interesting, meaning strategically aligned with where we're headed as an organization or the project we're working on? D is it doable? Tell me why you think we could actually pull this thing off. E is an engaging meaning who else might we need to include in this? This is where you teach your team to think about stakeholders and then A, what are a couple of key actions recommended next steps to get started?So, you know, if you were an employee and you were sitting here listening to this and saying, yeah, I have ideas, but I'm still a little nervous. If you went to your manager and said, gosh, you know, I really care about this team. I want us to be successful. I have an idea. Here's why it's interesting. Here's why it's doable. Here's who else? I think we need to include. And here are a couple of next steps. They still might not implement your idea, but you are going to show up as a critical thinker, team player, who wants to make an impact. The Ewing Marion Kauffman FoundationSponsor Voice: The Ewing Marion Kauffman Foundation is a private, nonpartisan foundation based in Kansas City, Missouri, that seeks to build inclusive prosperity through a prepared workforce and entrepreneur-focused economic development. The Foundation uses its $3 billion in assets to change conditions, address root causes, and break down systemic barriers so that all people – regardless of race, gender, or geography – have the opportunity to achieve economic stability, mobility, and prosperity. For more  information, visit www.kauffman.org and connect with us at www.twitter.com/kauffmanfdn and www.facebook.com/kauffmanfdn.Brian Ardinger: One of the things that I've talked about in our practice is this idea of changing the mindset. Most ideas are quite frankly crap when they first start. You haven't figured everything out. It's new and unknown and that.So, if you come in with more of a side project mindset. It's like, this is my side project, or this is my experiment that I want to run, it changes the framework. And a lot of times it gets rid of that fear of it having to be perfect to launch. Or having to be perfect to have that conversation with your boss and that. What's your take on that? Karin Hurt: I can, I agree with you more. I love that so much. You know, I'm always like, so just do a pilot. And, you know, I was at Verizon for 20 years and I led some really large teams there. And in one of those roles, I had a particularly change resistant boss. Like he just was super corporate. He didn't want to try anything different, you know, he's like, if it didn't come from headquarters, we're not doing it.And that's not me. And I'm not happy leading in a role like that. And I had a big job. So, I was constantly saying, let's just try it in this one market. And let me prove it in. Let's just try it with a couple of our employees. Let's take a couple of our high performers and let them kick the tires on this thing.Yeah. And that made it very, he's like, okay, but don't tell anybody you're doing it. Yeah. But then he was very happy to take it to headquarters when we proved it in. And so, I think that is a way to deal with that. And I'll say that even when we're selling in training programs to folks, I'm like you don't need to say you're going to train all of your leaders, just give me one team. And let me show you the impact and how this will play out in your culture. And that's really much easier for people to say, oh yeah, well, we could try that. Brian Ardinger: So, in your book, you talk about how you're trying to create micro innovators. These small, powerful people that can take action and do things. Is this something that you see courageous cultures being built from the ground up or top down or a combination of both. Karin Hurt: Mostly you need to go from the top down. For our first book, Winning Well was really more practical for the frontline managers to do this. To really truly create a courageous culture, you need to do all the things, right.You need to be having very clear that you do want a culture of innovation. You need to be communicating that consistently five by five. You've got to have strategic priorities that people know where things are headed. Some of that can come from the top, right? With that said either you're a manager listening to this, or you're an individual contributor and saying, I would like to be a micro innovator.You don't need to go out and declare, well, we need to build a courageous culture around here. Everybody should read Karin's book. No, just figure out where is one area of the business that could improve? And come up with a little idea. It doesn't have to be game-changing. It's just a little idea that would make things better.How would you have less stress in your day, if one process was improved. How can you collaborate better and reduce the friction that you've got with this other department that's driving you crazy? You know, that's the micro-Innovation. And when you have a culture where more and more people are coming up with these little incremental ideas, they completely add up to build a more courageous culture.Brian Ardinger: How do you start measuring your progress and success? How do you know if you are on your way to building that courageous culture? What things do you look at and what things can you measure? Karin Hurt: Yeah, so I would say one of the things that you really will see is you getting more ideas when you are in meetings, what is happening? Is it you're coming in with the agenda and everybody's listening to you and taking notes and doing what you say? Or are people saying, you know what, I'm not sure that's going to work. Or what about this? Could we try it this way? Or have an idea. And I think the quality of your ideas, because at first you might get a lot of ideas, then you're like, oh my goodness, why did we even open this can of worms? But over time as you teach people, what a good idea looks like, how to vet their ideas, how to articulate their ideas, how to, to your point pilot and test their ideas, you will see that happening. And then, you know, I think the other thing is the irony about a courageous culture is it takes less daily courage to show up because this is the way we do things around here. So, it doesn't feel courageous to raise my hand because everybody is raising their hand. So, I think that is one of the things. Now, where does it play out in business outcomes? Well, you're going to see ideas that improve productivity. That improve the customer experience. So, you see those metrics improve.And from an employee engagement perspective, it will definitely improve retention because people will feel seen. And, you know, we have this one client we've been working with for two years now. And we have trained pretty much everybody. Every leader from the senior team to the VPs, to the Director in the revenue generating and the revenue enabling side of the business it's become cultural.And one of the interesting things that they've told us is, you know, before we started working with you and really introducing this courageous cultures concept, the number one reason people were leaving was leadership. That's what they said in their exit interviews. Now it's not one of the top reasons people are leaving anymore. The cost savings of better retention is tremendous. Brian Ardinger: We are living in this new world hybrid world, or COVID, everything has literally changed the way every business is working. What are some of the trends or things that you're seeing and how can courageous culture play out as we evolve the workspace in general.Karin Hurt: Yeah. So, a couple things that I'm seeing play out as I'm sure you are too, is one, is there is a deeper need for human connection. People are really craving it. There's been a lot of mental health issues. There are people who've been through a lot. We're all tired. And so, leaders need to be more attuned to that than ever.And part of what we've seen as I've been watching good leadership and bad leadership throughout this time, is good leadership is really correlated to are people willing to show up and be authentic and a little bit more transparent than they have in the past. And I've watched people, managers who've showed up, you know, with their teams and said, I know this isn't easy. It's not easy for me too. Here's why, you know, why I know this is hard for you. Here's a little bit of a, what's been happening to me. But here's what I do believe. Now clarity. I believe in you; I believe in this team. And I know that we'll figure it out. Then curiosity. So, what ideas do you have as we've transitioned to working from home? What do you need? What's one idea that you have that could make you more productive while you're working from home? And so, it's that. It's that human, being, being human. And I think if there's any silver lining out of this whole mess that we've been in, it's that people are paying more attention to leadership. And to developing their leaders and understanding that you can't do it without the deeper human connection.Brian Ardinger: Well and that's so difficult in a remote type of environment. Are there things that you're seeing that have made it easier for some companies to latch onto that? Or create that more intimate relationship even though a lot of them are remote.Karin Hurt: So, the number one thing I would say is getting really great at one-on-one meetings. And not just phoning in the one-on-one meetings, where you show up, you have the same agenda every time, you know, and you just check it off. It's saying what does this person, this human being need most at this time. And so, you know, we talk about there's five different things that you could include in your one-on-ones. Are you having a connection one-on-one where you're just really checking in on a human level? Are you having a clarity one-on-one where you're really reinforcing strategic priorities? So, people understand what's most important right now in the sea of things coming at them. Are you curios? A one-on-one where you're going to ask them for their ideas. And so, thinking about each person on your team. And then how do you mix up the way you're doing the one-on-ones so they feel fresh. That they are serving the team. And I think if every manager could get really good at one-on-ones you're halfway there. Yeah. Brian Ardinger: Well, we have a lot of startup founders who listen to this podcast as well. Do you have any advice for companies that are forming new cultures and how to get it right early and avoid some of the pitfalls that bigger companies have fallen into?Karin Hurt: Absolutely. And that's actually one of our favorites. We work with a lot of clients that are venture based, fast growing startups. And that seems to be a sweet spot because as you're growing fast, you get to that point and you're like, oh, we probably ought to be more intentional about our culture and the values and the behaviors.And so, the things that I would say there is start by really defining what does success look like. And, you know, one way we actually do that with folks is we give people two pieces of paper and say draw the picture of what we're trying to be. Draw the picture of what we look like right now. And, you know, sometimes you'll see, especially with startups, the house is on fire.Usually there's a house on fire somewhere in the room. Right. And we would like not to be that. We would like to be smooth and organized. Or you'll see, gosh, we're in a lot of silos when we were really small, we just got in a room, and we figured it all out. And now as we're growing, we've got unnecessary bureaucracy that is creeping in and we never wanted to be that way.You can start there. And then you'd say, okay, what are the values? And not just, you can do this well, or you can do this in a way that's just not going to work very well. What are the values and don't just paint them on your walls or put it on your internet and call it a day? Then get really tactical about what are the behaviors both internally about how you're going to function and externally how you're interfacing with your clients or customers. And how does that play out?And then you could even say, get, come up with some scenarios of, and we do this a lot with folks. What are these two values are in clash? Like if compassion for your employees, is in tension with a, you know, responsiveness value. How do you play that out in real life scenarios? And so, and just getting people to talk about that and then looking at every element from how are you hiring, how are you onboarding? How are you rewarding and recognizing? And are you building those values and those behaviors consistently. And the final thing I would add there because this happens most of the time, if there is a turkey who is not behaving according to your values, just because they were there with you from the very beginning, if they are destroying your culture and you keep looking the other way, everybody is watching that.And you can say we value integrity, but if they're not operating with integrity, that is a problem. And some of our clients have had to make some really hard decisions of people that they cared about who were there at the beginning, but who could not behave consistently according to the values. And they have not regretted having to make that choice.Brian Ardinger: It's about being courageous, right? Yup. Doing the hard things sometimes. Excellent. Well, Karin, thank you for coming on Inside Outside Innovation, to tell us a little bit about this. I, again, encourage people to grab the book. It's called Courageous Cultures. If people want to find out more about yourself or more about the book, what's the best way to do that? Karin Hurt: So, our website is letsgrowleaders.com and on LinkedIn. Love to connect with people on LinkedIn. Answer any of your questions. It's Karin with an I. Karin Hurt on LinkedInBrian Ardinger: Excellent. Well, Karen, thanks again for coming on to the program and looking forward to continuing the conversation as the years continue on.Karin Hurt: Excellent. Thank you so much. It's been my pleasure.Brian Ardinger: That's it for another episode of Inside Outside Innovation. If you want to learn more about our team, our content, our services, check out InsideOutside.io or follow us on Twitter @theIOpodcast or @Ardinger. Until next time, go out and innovate.FREE INNOVATION NEWSLETTER & TOOLSGet the latest episodes of the Inside Outside Innovation podcast, in addition to thought leadership in the form of blogs, innovation resources, videos, and invitations to exclusive events. SUBSCRIBE HEREYou can also search every Inside Outside Innovation Podcast by Topic and Company.  For more innovations resources, check out IO's Innovation Article Database, Innovation Tools Database, Innovation Book Database, and Innovation Video Database.  As an Amazon Affiliate, we may ear a small commission from purchases.  

While studying psychological safety and trust, I came upon the movie, Sully, which demonstrates how these factors work in a life-and-death situation. I dive into that on today's show. Also, on the lighter side, a little talk on recipes and vitamins. My guest is real estate broker Melissa Corsetti, who shares the three F words that are important to her: faith, friends, family.  Additional information from today's show:  -  Amy Edmondson's book is The Fearless Organization.  -  The trailer for Sully is on YouTube.com.  -  Melissa's website is at TeamCorsetti.com. -  Lisa Hylton, ACC, can be reached: HyltonLisaB [at] gmail.com. 

Welcome to Calm Edged Rebels; Trudy, Jenni and Advita's award-winning podcast.     In our weekly podcast, we share our views on the big subjects for professional communicators, leaders and coaches. We also take the opportunity to share topical issues with you.     We have our own announcement to make in this week's news section. Tune in for the latest information about our Comms Retreats and find out what our brand new offer is.    Our big topic centres on psychological safety and the extent to which it's a leadership responsibility to foster a psychologically safe workplace.    How much do factors like industry, culture and hierarchy impact on levels of psychological safety? What kind of behaviours can crush people's confidence and what role does belonging play?    We consider the role of personality, relationships and the need to create safe spaces in the context of current work places.   Throughout the conversation we refer to the following books, articles and reports: The Fearless Organization by Amy Edmondson fearlessorganization.com   Podcasts with Amy Edmondson whatsnextpodcast.libsyn.com/the-fearless-organization-with-amy-edmondson bregmanpartners.com/podcast/amy-edmondson-the-fearless-organization/ www.secondcityworks.com/podcast-posts/amy-edmondson   Rebel Ideas: The Power of Thinking Differently by Matthew Syed uk.bookshop.org/books/rebel-ideas-the-power-of-thinking-differently/9781529348408#:~:text=Rebel%20Ideas%20examines%20the%20power%20of%20%27cognitive%20diversity%27,our%20age%20-%20from%20climate%20change%20to%20terrorism.   Black Box Thinking by Matthew Syed www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00PW634YQ/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i2   Leadership Personality Types by Colour en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartman_Personality_Profile   Psychological safety and trust are not the same thing blog by Redefining Communications redefiningcomms.com/psychological-safety-and-trust-are-not-the-same-thing/   Psychological safety and the critical role of leadership development research by McKinsey & Co www.mckinsey.com/business-functions/people-and-organizational-performance/our-insights/psychological-safety-and-the-critical-role-of-leadership-development   The Positive Practice of Productive Disagreement blog by Calm Edged Rebels calmedgedrebels.com/the-positive-practice-of-productive-disagreement/   A User Manual For Me blog by Cassie Robinson cassierobinson.medium.com/a-user-manual-for-me-d3a851fbc694   The Power of Vulnerability: Teachings on Authenticity, Connection & Courage by Brené Brown brenebrown.com/book/the-power-of-vulnerability/    The Five Second Rule: Transform your Life, Work, and Confidence with Everyday Courage by Mel Robbins uk.bookshop.org/books/the-5-second-rule-transform-your-life-work-and-confidence-with-everyday-courage/9781682612385   If you want to find out more about this topic, or about us, head over to https://calmedgedrebels.com for all the info.   

If you want to be better at leading a team. If you want to know how to lead a good decision making process. Or how to engage and inspire people to bring their full self to work. If you want to improve the culture in your business, then don't miss Amy Edmondson on this week's episode of The Melting Pot. Amy hasn't just written the book on psychological safety in the workplace, Fearless Organization, she's a global expert in organisational development. She's taught the topic to countless Harvard MBA students for the last 25 years, in her role as Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School.But why did Amy write the book and how did that Google project lead to one of the most globally revered books about the importance of psychological safety in the workplace? And why does Amy consider Pixar to be the poster child for psychological safety?Download and listen to find out what it takes for an organisation to build great leaders and psychological safety. And learn how you can develop and roleplay psychological safety while developing as a leader. This is a really fantastic conversation, we hope you enjoy it as much as we did. On today's podcast:Amy and Google's Project AristotleWhat is psychological safety?The 3 elements required to build psychological safetyWhy responding positively is so hardThe industrial age issue that persists todayLinks:TED Talk - Amy C. Edmondson Book - The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth Book - Extreme Teaming: Lessons in Complex, Cross-Sector Leadership Twitter – @AmyCEdmondsonLinkedIn – Amy EdmondsonWebsite – Amy C. Edmondson - Faculty & Research

Amy C. Edmondson is an American scholar of leadership, teaming, and organizational learning. She is currently the Novartis Professor of Leadership at Harvard Business School. Amy is the author of seven books and more than 75 articles and case studies.She is best known for her pioneering work on psychological safety, which has helped spawn a large body of academic research in management, healthcare and education over the past 15 years. Her books include “The Fearless Organization, Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth” and “Teaming: How Organizations Learn, Innovate and Compete in the Knowledge Economy”.We had a fantastic conversation, that spanned:How the heck do you get the Professor gig at Harvard?Buckminster FullerPsychological SafetyAnd......well....I won;t spoil it for youGracious, elegant and steeped in leadership. Amy is a joy to speak to.

HR Management LAB "AUDIO BOOK" #2 "The Fearless Organization" Speaker: Т.Энхбаяр - М-Си-Эс Проперти, Хүний нөөцийн албаны дарга Г.Одгэрэл- Петровис ойл ХХК-ийн Сургалтын ахлах менежер Т.Булгансувд - Витафит Инвест ХХК-ийн Хүний нөөцийн менежер distributed by Biirchin

In this episode, we explore the concept of Psychological Safety and understand its impact on team learning and organizational performance.Guest: Lavinia Mehedintu, People Experience Manager at eMAG and co-founder and curator of Offbeat.Highlights:* Psychological Safety is the belief that you won't be punished or humiliated for speaking up with ideas, questions, concerns, or while making mistakes.* Amy Edmonson's research paper sits at the basis of the concept of Psychological Safety as the main influencing factor in team effectiveness and learning.* Google also did a research project called Aristotle on the same topic; they offer a framework and free tools for any organization to start fostering Psychological Safety in teams.* Adam Grant and Melinda Gates put together an experiment at the Gates Foundation. They asked leaders to show vulnerability by talking about their mistakes to create a more welcoming and trusting work environment.* Radical Candor by Kim Scott also touches on how leaders can create an open and honest working environment by showing people that they care personally while offering feedback or having difficult conversations.* L&Ds can help create psychologically safe working environments in their organizations. First, by identifying issues with trust and belonging on the various teams they support, then by helping executives and team leaders understand the importance and effectiveness of being supporters and promoters of psychological safety on their teams.* The absence of Psychological Safety prevents employees from focusing on learning since they're using their cognitive resources on workplace survival rather than acquiring new knowledge.* The biology of how the brain works also supports this: learning and going through new experiences protects and improves the neurons' myelin sheath, enhancing cognitive function - more details about the science behind this in Amy Edmondson's book The Fearless Organization.How to foster Psychological Safety:- Leaders should show vulnerability to the organization- Mistakes are seen as learning opportunities- Showing concern for colleagues on a personal level- Creating a sentiment of mutual trust and belonging within the team- Encouraging people to step out of their comfort zoneWhat prevents Psychological Safety in the workplace:- Public shaming or shaming in general.- Punishing mistakes instead of recognizing effort made and focusing on points of improvement.- Putting on a brave face even when it is unnecessary, for fear of being judged or ridiculed; not showing vulnerability.To join the conversation or get in touch, reach out to Liz Stefan on LinkedIn or email liz[at]niftylearning.io.

Hello, and a warm welcome to this special extended season of The Hive Podcast, featuring the interviews from my new book, "Business Unusual: Values, Uncertainty and the Psychology of Brand Resilience". Join me, as I dive into the conversations behind the quotes, and hear from the world's leading experts, psychologists and business leaders, whose insights and ideas are transforming how we work, rest and play. I'll be releasing a new episode here, each week, but if you'd like to download everything at once and access additional resources and recommended reading, I've made all of this available to readers over at https://www.businessunusualthebook.com/. And if you're tempted to discover more about your motivations and the principles that drive you, you can even check out the values map.com, a platform I've designed in collaboration with Dr Kiki Leutner of Goldsmiths University, to help you identify, develop and communicate the psychological values you or your business represents. In today's conversation, I speak with Amy C. Edmondson – the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at Harvard Business School, whose most recent book, The Fearless Organization, examines the powerful role of psychological safety in teamwork and innovation. Based upon almost 30 years of research, Amy's work explores what it takes for groups of people to perform at a high level, and the dynamic forms of collaboration that are needed in environments characterised by uncertainty and ambiguity. Before her academic career, Amy was Director of Research at Pecos River Learning Centers, where she worked with founder and CEO Larry Wilson to design change programs in large companies. In the early 1980s, she worked as Chief Engineer for architect/inventor Buckminster Fuller, and innovation in the built environment remains an area of enduring interest and passion. Recorded on 6th February 2021.

In This Episode,  we spoke with Dr Anwar Al-ibrahim who has a PhD in civil engineering. She earned her PhD degree from North Carolina State University.  She is currently a faculty member at the college of engineering and petroleum, Kuwait University since February 2006.  In addition to her teaching position, she is holding the position of assistant director for the construction program responsible for supervising the construction of the new Kuwait University campus in Shedadeya since February 2013.  Dr Anwar has also worked as the assistant of vice dean for planning at Kuwait University from 2008 till 2010.  We recommend you watch the below video which is going to amaze you and it is why we want to interview her from the beginning.  "Kuwaiti Females leading with Hardhats " Anwar Al Ibrahim | HagueTalkshttps://youtu.be/vdUWgf9kN_UIf you want to know more about Dr Al -Ibrahim, check the links belowLinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/anwar-al-ibrahim-165919121/Instagramhttps://www.instagram.com/anwaraalibrahim/We mentioned the book " The Fearless Organization" By Amy C. Edmondson. You can check the link of the book below:https://www.amazon.ae/Fearless-Organization-Psychological-Workplace-Innovation/dp/1119477247/ref=asc_df_1119477247/?tag=googleshopp09-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=355856139268&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14554429370753759868&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9047580&hvtargid=pla-541252824911&psc=1We want to apologize for the sound quality due to the Internet connection via ZOOM. we will try to improve to a better platform.I add the link of "buy me a coffee" and kept the surveys as usual !!Survey 1Buy me a Coffe PageSupport the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/Civlengvibes)

This summer, I'll be reissuing some of my favorite episodes of Punk Rock HR. Here's a conversation I had in 2019 with Professor Amy Edmondson from Harvard Business School and author of "The Fearless Organization". Our conversation about generating psychological safety, inviting participation and using humor to destigmatize failure is still essential today. If you're ready to empower your workforce to create and innovate, sit back and learn from Amy Edmondson.

On this episode of Health Gig, we hear from Carley Hauck, who is a Senior Learning Architect and Executive Coach. Carley is vastly experienced in the world of both professional and individual development, having supported leaders in Fortune 100 companies as well as practiced as a marriage and family therapist. Holding a Master's degree in Organizational Psychology, Carley also serves as adjunct instructor at UC Berkeley Haas School of Business and Stanford University and is certified in the IEQ-9 Leadership Assessment and is a Certified Psychological Safety Practitioner through the Fearless Organization. She is the author of Shine: Ignite Your Inner Game to Lead  Consciously at Work and In the World.

On this episode of Health Gig, we hear from Carley Hauck, who is a Senior Learning Architect and Executive Coach. Carley is vastly experienced in the world of both professional and individual development, having supported leaders in Fortune 100 companies as well as practiced as a marriage and family therapist. Holding a Master’s degree in Organizational Psychology, Carley also serves as adjunct instructor at UC Berkeley Haas School of Business and Stanford University and is certified in the IEQ-9 Leadership Assessment and is a Certified Psychological Safety Practitioner through the Fearless Organization. She is the author of Shine: Ignite Your Inner Game to Lead Consciously at Work and In the World. More on Carley Hauck: Website: https://carleyhauck.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/carley.hauck/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pg/leadingfromwholeness/posts/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/carleyhauck LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carley-hauck

In this special edition of the AFP Conversations Podcast, Jim Kaitz, President and CEO of AFP, speaks with Amy Edmonson, who will appear at AFP 2021 as the Tuesday Keynote speaker. Edmonson is the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School and author of the book The Fearless Organization, which offers practical guidance for teams and organizations who are serious about success in the modern economy. In this interview, Edmonson provides a preview of her presentation, Leading Through Crisis: Leveraging Teaming to Solve Problems and Innovate. She discusses the value of successful teaming in a crisis and provides concrete tools that leaders and their teams can use to innovate in the face of disruption. AFP 2021 takes place November 7 - 10 in Washington, D.C. The early registration deadline is through June 25, 2021. To learn more about the event and to register, visit AFP2021.org.

Harvard's Amy Edmondson pioneered the breakthrough concept of psychological safety at work, in which people feel that they can speak up without fear of retribution. It's been shown to be crucial to innovation and growth. Psychological safety has also been essential for improvements in hospital care. I can't think of a more important topic for where we are right now. In this chat, we'll discuss the initial research behind the concept and how it has now been embraced. We'll also touch on the core themes of the book "The Fearless Organization" which is a treasure. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/thoughtsparksritamcgrath/message

Tyler Bayley (Virtual Speaker) and PowerUp Leadership co-sponsor the production of the Inspired Leadership Podcast. This podcast highlights how to inspire leadership capability in our workplaces for higher performance. If you would like to create more inspired leadership in your workplace, sign up for a new online course to learn more. Naz Beheshti is the author of Pause. Breathe. Choose.: Become the CEO of Your Well-Being. She is an executive wellness coach, speaker, Forbes contributor, and CEO and founder of Prananaz, a company that provides corporate wellness solutions for improving employee engagement and well-being, company culture, and business outcomes. She lives in New York City. Here is a sampling of the impressive advance endorsements the book has received: “Naz Beheshti’s book, Pause. Breathe. Choose., provides practical tools to unlock your highest potential for total well-being.” — Deepak Chopra, author of Total Meditation “Pause. Breathe. Choose. is a go-to guide for anyone who wants to take charge of their life and reach their true potential. You’ll be delighted by the beautiful prose and the helpful structure of each chapter. I urge you to let this wonderful book be a game changer for you.” — BJ Fogg, PhD, New York Times bestselling author of Tiny Habits and behavior scientist, Stanford University “Pause. Breathe. Choose. The title itself conveys everything we need to know to become more thoughtful and fulfilled in work and life. Naz Beheshti’s new book reminds us that the pursuit of doing well need not get in the way of well-being. Anyone seeking more fulfillment in their life will find something in this book to help.” — Amy C. Edmondson, professor, Harvard Business School, and author of The Fearless Organization. Thank you to our listeners for your ongoing support and suggestions! Please share this podcast, give it a like, and if you would like to be a guest or have a suggested topic for a future episode, email susan@powerupleadership.ca or bayleyty@gmail.com.

Leaders who understand and create psychological safety build high performing organizations. Psychological safety isn't about being nice though, it's about giving candid feedback, openly admitting mistakes, and learning from each other. It's about trust and vulnerability. Amy Edmondson, a Harvard Business School professor and author of the book The Fearless Organization, talks about the concept of psychological safety and how companies with a trusting workplace ultimately perform better.

It has been more than a year since Ohio's schools were closed due to COVID and we are ready to get back to normal.  Or, are we?  In this episode, Meet Me in the Middle, Dr. Julie Davis talks with Carrie Sanchez, Principal of Port Clinton Middle School and Matt Bradley, Principal of Highland Middle School about “COVID silver linings” and the opportunity to make some important changes to create a new, improved normal.  Ideas and resources shared in this episode include:  Flip Grid—teaching tool enabling students to show their learning The Fearless Organization by Amy C. Edmondson Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman The Power of Moments by Dan and Chip Heath

In this episode I interview Amy Edmonson about psychological safety in the workplace, why it matters and how to build it. Amy C. Edmondson is the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School. She teaches and writes on leadership, teams and organizational learning, and is the author of more than 70 academic articles. Her most recent book, “The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth”offers practical guidance for teams and organizations who are serious about success in the modern economy. Her prior books, Teaming: How Organizations Learn, Innovate and Compete in the Knowledge Economy and Teaming to Innovate (Jossey-Bass, 2012, 2103) and Extreme Teaming (Emerald, 2018) explore teamwork in dynamic, unpredictable work environments. Edmondson has been ranked by the biannual Thinkers50 global list of top management thinkers since 2011 and selected as the #1 most influential thinker in Human Resources by HR Magazine in 2019. Before her academic career, she was Director of Research at Pecos River Learning Centers, where she worked on transformational change in large companies. In the early 1980s, she worked as Chief Engineer for architect/inventor Buckminster Fuller, and her book A Fuller Explanation: The Synergetic Geometry of R. Buckminster Fuller (Birkauser Boston, 1987) clarifies Fuller's mathematical contributions for a non-technical audience. Edmondson received her PhD in organizational behavior, AM in psychology, and AB in engineering and design, all from Harvard University. There are no perfectly psychologically safe organizations or completely unsafe ones. It happens more with teams then across organizations which implies that every manager has the opportunity to create a psychologically safe environment with passion for the cause, curiosity, empathy and humility. If you want to learn how to create a psychologically safe environment for your employees, one that fosters true “teaming” this episode is for you. Amy's book is available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Fearless-Organization-Psychological-Workplace-Innovation/dp/1119477247/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1541340285&sr=8-1&keywords=the+fearless+organization And here's a link to Amy Edmonson's outstanding to Ted Talk. https://www.ted.com/talks/amy_edmondson_how_to_turn_a_group_of_strangers_into_a_team/transcript

In this 'Inspiring TED Talks" HCI Podcast episode, Dr. Jonathan H. Westover (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanhwestover/) explores Amy C. Edmondson's famous TED video, "How to Lead in a Crisis." See the full video here: https://www.ted.com/talks/amy_c_edmondson_how_to_lead_in_a_crisis/details?language=en  Overview of video: "Humility, transparency and urgency are the keys to successfully steering an organization -- big or small -- through the challenges that come your way. Leadership expert Amy C. Edmondson provides clear advice and examples to help any leader rise to the occasion."  Amy C. Edmondson is the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School, a chair established to support the study of human interactions that lead to the creation of successful enterprises that contribute to the betterment of society. Best known for her groundbreaking work on psychological safety in the workplace, Edmondson is the author of seven books and more than 75 articles and case studies.  She has been ranked by the biannual Thinkers50 global list of top management thinkers since 2011 (most recently number 13), and selected in 2019 as the number 1 most influential thinker in Human Resources by HR Magazine. Her most recent book, The Fearless Organization offers practical guidance for leaders of teams and organizations who are serious about success in the modern economy.  Check out Dr. Westover's new book, The Alchemy of Truly Remarkable Leadership, here: https://www.innovativehumancapital.com/leadershipalchemy.  Check out the latest issue of the Human Capital Leadership magazine, here: https://www.innovativehumancapital.com/hci-magazine  Ranked in the Top 10 Performance Management Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/performance_management_podcasts/ ; Ranked in the Top 10 Workplace Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/workplace_podcasts/ ; Ranked in the Top 15 HR Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/hr_podcasts/ ; Ranked in the Top 15 Talent Management Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/talent_management_podcasts/ ; Ranked in the Top 15 Personal Development and Self-Improvement Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/personal_development_podcasts/ ; Ranked in the Top 30 Leadership Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/leadership_podcasts/

On our next episode we speak to Amy Edmondson, the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School and author of the books Teaming and The Fearless Organization. In this episode we dive into: - The importance of psychological safety within organizations and its direct link to preventing failures. - Why organizations fail at psychological safety, including why employees fail to use their voice. - The best nudges to support the behaviors that lead to psychological safety in organizations. - Advice for leaders navigating the uncertainty of today's world. To learn more about Amy Edmondson and her publications, you can visit her HBS profile page here. Let us know what you think about the episode on Twitter @BVANudgeUnit. Don't have social media? Our inbox is always open: contact@bvanudgeunit.com

Psychologische veiligheid is belangrijk voor je bedrijf. Het helpt medewerkers om te zeggen wat ze dwars zit, wat ze horen in de markt ook wanneer dit tegen de visie van de ondernemer in is. Het helpt mensen om te zeggen wat er mis is zodat je er samen aan kunt werken om dit te verbeteren. Door dit gesprek met Tom heb ik veel geleerd en inzichten gekregen van het boek en het Nederlandse landschap op zelfsturing, leiderschap en het belang van psychologische veiligheid hierbij. Echt bekend werd Amy C. Edmondson van haar werk in het Aristoteles project bij Google. Het boek is opgedeeld in drie delen: De kracht van psychologische veiligheidPsychologische veiligheid op het werkEen angstvrije organisatie bouwen De belangrijke conclusies die Edmondson trekt komen uit de onderzoeken die ze deed in ziekenhuizen. Een plek waar het leven van mensen op het spel staan als mensen in het team niet durven te zeggen wat ze denken tegen bijvoorbeeld een arts. Dit gebeurt natuurlijk niet alleen bij bedrijven waar het om hele grote investeringen gaat en mensenlevens. Dit gebeurt ook bij kleine bedrijven. De ondernemer is zo overtuigd van haar visie en idee dat de mensen in het team er niet tegenin durven te gaan terwijl ze denken, we wachten rustig af. De mensen in je team die werken met de klant en problemen niet durven door te geven omdat ze bang zijn voor de persoonlijke gevolgen. De gesprekken bij het koffieapparaat over het nieuwste idee van de ondernemer of de problemen bij de klant die onderling wel worden besproken maar niet met de ondernemer. Dit heeft gevolgen voor de toekomst van het bedrijf, kosten die oplopen, klanten die weglopen, ideeën die niet worden uitgevoerd. Dit kost tijd en geld terwijl het resultaat tegenvalt. Als ondernemer wil je een omgeving creëren waarin iedereen haar zegje durft te doen en wordt gehoord. Dat betekent vooral dat je minder praat, meer vragen stelt en luistert. Dat betekent ook dat je medewerkers de ruimte geeft om zelf met ideeën te komen, daar geen aanpassingen op voorsteld en de ruimte geeft om fouten te maken.  Psychologische veiligheid gaat niet over gemak en comfort. Het gaat erom dat je de ruimte creëert voor een open discussie en elkaar de waarheid durft zeggen. Eerlijk zijn, juist wanneer dit lastig is. Leiders hebben hierin twee taken: Psychologische veiligheid bouwen zodat mensen leren en voorkombare fouten vermijdenEen hoge standaard neerzetten, en inspireren en het mogelijk maken dat mensen dit kunnen bereiken. Leiders moeten mensen motiveren om hun beste werk te doen door ze te inspireren. In een veilige omgeving moet iedereen zich leider kunnen voelen. Luister Beluister hier ons gesprek waarin we de acht trends van het boek bespreken. In een ruim half uur delen wij dit boek met jou. Een half uur met kennis die je tot je neemt terwijl je wandelt, loopt of rijd bijvoorbeeld. Leerpunten  Een aantal belangrijke dingen die ik geleerd heb uit dit boek zijn: Psychologische veiligheid is de basis voor teams met de beste resultaten.In een platte, zelfsturende organisatie, is psychologische veiligheid de basis.In een open bedrijf zijn er geen geheimen en mag iedereen elk overleg binnenlopen om haar of zijn gedachten te delen.Nederland is koploper voor zelforganisatie. Platte cultuur waar we elkaar de waarheid zeggen. Voor zelforganisatie is dit een goede basis, Jos de Blok met Buurtzorg is een goed voorbeeld.Als leider deel je de fouten die je maakt. Wees transparant en geef het goede voorbeeld door je kwetsbaar op te stellen. Door de fouten te benoemen (te vieren) kan iedereen leren. Wil je meer leren van Ray Dalio volg hem dan op LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/raydalio Video Bekijk ons gesprek op video: https://youtu.be/s-xySFn3nts The fearless organization van Amy C. Edmondson is zeker de moeite van het bestuderen waard. Het laat zien hoe je een bedrijf bouwt waarin de som groter is dan de delen.

Psychologische veiligheid is belangrijk voor je bedrijf. Het helpt medewerkers om te zeggen wat ze dwars zit, wat ze horen in de markt ook wanneer dit tegen de visie van de ondernemer in is. Het helpt mensen om te zeggen wat er mis is zodat je er samen aan kunt werken om dit te verbeteren. Door dit gesprek met Tom heb ik veel geleerd en inzichten gekregen van het boek en het Nederlandse landschap op zelfsturing, leiderschap en het belang van psychologische veiligheid hierbij. Echt bekend werd Amy C. Edmondson van haar werk in het Aristoteles project bij Google. Het boek is opgedeeld in drie delen: De kracht van psychologische veiligheidPsychologische veiligheid op het werkEen angstvrije organisatie bouwen De belangrijke conclusies die Edmondson trekt komen uit de onderzoeken die ze deed in ziekenhuizen. Een plek waar het leven van mensen op het spel staan als mensen in het team niet durven te zeggen wat ze denken tegen bijvoorbeeld een arts. Dit gebeurt natuurlijk niet alleen bij bedrijven waar het om hele grote investeringen gaat en mensenlevens. Dit gebeurt ook bij kleine bedrijven. De ondernemer is zo overtuigd van haar visie en idee dat de mensen in het team er niet tegenin durven te gaan terwijl ze denken, we wachten rustig af. De mensen in je team die werken met de klant en problemen niet durven door te geven omdat ze bang zijn voor de persoonlijke gevolgen. De gesprekken bij het koffieapparaat over het nieuwste idee van de ondernemer of de problemen bij de klant die onderling wel worden besproken maar niet met de ondernemer. Dit heeft gevolgen voor de toekomst van het bedrijf, kosten die oplopen, klanten die weglopen, ideeën die niet worden uitgevoerd. Dit kost tijd en geld terwijl het resultaat tegenvalt. Als ondernemer wil je een omgeving creëren waarin iedereen haar zegje durft te doen en wordt gehoord. Dat betekent vooral dat je minder praat, meer vragen stelt en luistert. Dat betekent ook dat je medewerkers de ruimte geeft om zelf met ideeën te komen, daar geen aanpassingen op voorsteld en de ruimte geeft om fouten te maken.  Psychologische veiligheid gaat niet over gemak en comfort. Het gaat erom dat je de ruimte creëert voor een open discussie en elkaar de waarheid durft zeggen. Eerlijk zijn, juist wanneer dit lastig is. Leiders hebben hierin twee taken: Psychologische veiligheid bouwen zodat mensen leren en voorkombare fouten vermijdenEen hoge standaard neerzetten, en inspireren en het mogelijk maken dat mensen dit kunnen bereiken. Leiders moeten mensen motiveren om hun beste werk te doen door ze te inspireren. In een veilige omgeving moet iedereen zich leider kunnen voelen. Luister Beluister hier ons gesprek waarin we de acht trends van het boek bespreken. In een ruim half uur delen wij dit boek met jou. Een half uur met kennis die je tot je neemt terwijl je wandelt, loopt of rijd bijvoorbeeld. Leerpunten  Een aantal belangrijke dingen die ik geleerd heb uit dit boek zijn: Psychologische veiligheid is de basis voor teams met de beste resultaten.In een platte, zelfsturende organisatie, is psychologische veiligheid de basis.In een open bedrijf zijn er geen geheimen en mag iedereen elk overleg binnenlopen om haar of zijn gedachten te delen.Nederland is koploper voor zelforganisatie. Platte cultuur waar we elkaar de waarheid zeggen. Voor zelforganisatie is dit een goede basis, Jos de Blok met Buurtzorg is een goed voorbeeld.Als leider deel je de fouten die je maakt. Wees transparant en geef het goede voorbeeld door je kwetsbaar op te stellen. Door de fouten te benoemen (te vieren) kan iedereen leren. Wil je meer leren van Ray Dalio volg hem dan op LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/raydalio Video Bekijk ons gesprek op video: https://youtu.be/s-xySFn3nts The fearless organization van Amy C. Edmondson is zeker de moeite van het bestuderen waard. Het laat zien hoe je een bedrijf bouwt waarin de som groter is dan de delen.

In this HCI Podcast episode, Dr. Westover talks with Christine Rose about how leaders can successfully navigate the impact of COVID-19 on women in the workplace. See the video here: https://youtu.be/Coq6MeG_JnI. A mom of two adult daughters, Christine Rose (https://www.linkedin.com/in/coachchristinerose/) is passionate about safety and justice for women. An award-winning business and executive coach, she is a the owner of Christine Rose Coaching & Consulting, a South Puget Sound based company helping CEOs grow their leadership, innovative teams, and profitable companies. Prior to starting her company, Christine was Director of Development at Attain Housing, a Washington State based nonprofit homeless housing provider, and held multiple roles in business development. Christine is author of the Amazon #1 New Release, Life Beyond #MeToo: Creating a Safer World for Our Mothers, Daughters, Sisters & Friends, endorsed by the premier CEO Coach, Marshall Goldsmith. She is also a Co-Author with Peak Performance Coach Jim Britt and “Shark Tank” Star Kevin Harrington of the new Volume 4 in the bestselling series for entrepreneurs, Cracking the Rich Code. Christine holds a Bachelors in Business from Georgetown University and a Certificate in Fundraising Management from University of Washington, and graduated from Coach U's Advanced Corporate Coaching Program. A credentialed Washington State Board member of International Coaching Federation, a certified Psychological Safety Coach with The Fearless Organization, a certified Core Values Coach with Taylor Protocols, and a member of Forbes Coaches Council, Christine's insights are featured on Forbes.com, Public Interest Radio, National Business Radio, and international media sites. Ranked in the Top 15 Personal Development and Self-Improvement Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/personal_development_podcasts/ ; Ranked in the Top 15 Leadership Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/leadership_podcasts/ ; Ranked in the Top 15 HR Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/hr_podcasts/ ; Ranked in the Top 15 Talent Management Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/talent_management_podcasts/ ; Ranked in the Top 10 Performance Management Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/performance_management_podcasts/ ; Ranked in the Top 10 Workplace Podcasts: https://blog.feedspot.com/workplace_podcasts/

ข้อมูลจากหนังสือ The Fearless Organization by Amy Edmondson ตั้งคำถามที่น่าสนใจว่า "จริงๆแล้วพนักงานทั้งหลายกลัวอะไรในองค์กร?" ทำให้ผู้บริหารและหัวหน้างานทั้งหลายได้ฉุกคิดว่า สิ่งที่พนักงานของเรากำลังกลัวอยู่คืออะไรกันแน่... ซึ่ง A Cup Of Culture ได้รวบรวม 7 ความกลัวที่เรามองไม่เห็น มาไว้ใน Ep นี้แล้วติดตามรับฟังได้ใน Ep72 กันเลยยย A Cup of Culture ----------- #วัฒนธรรมองค์กร #corporateculture #culture

EP 720 Book Review The Fearless Organization หนังสือชื่อ Fearless Organization เป็นหนังสือที่กล่าวถึงเรื่องการสร้างบรรยากาศที่มีความปลอดภัยในเชิงจิตวิทยา (Psychological Safety) ซึ่งเป็นสิ่งที่สำคัญมากที่จะทำให้คนในองค์กร "กล้า" ที่จะพูดเมื่อเจอสิ่งที่ผิดปกติ และจะมีส่วนสำคัญที่จะทำให้เกิดความคิดใหม่ ๆ ในองค์กร ผมมา Review ให้ฟังใน Episode นี้ครับ

Amy Edmondson, the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School and author of the book The Fearless Organization, discusses the steps leaders should be thinking about as companies look to bring their employees back to the office.On the episode, she touches on workspace safety, her concept of “psychological safety,” and transformative takeaways from her early years working for the forward-thinking 20th-century designer and engineer R. Buckminster Fuller, best known as the inventor of the geodesic dome.

Psychological Safety is the term coined by Amy Edmondson, the author of The Fearless Organization. I already talked about Psychological Safety, when I presented the work of Google on the project Aristotle, and how it was a very good conversation starter for my team. Tell me what you think!

A work environment that stifles ideas and inhibits people from asking for help or sharing problems is a symptom of fear-based leadership.   Psychological safety, on the other hand, is a sense of permission for candor at work.   In this episode, I interview Amy C. Edmondson, Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at Harvard Business School and author of The Fearless Organization. What we talked about: What a psychologically safe workplace looks like Examples of fear-based leadership versus asking good questions How to create a climate of psychological safety Emotional intelligence helps leaders promote psychological safety   Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast: The Fearless Organization by Amy C. Edmondson What Google Learned From Its Quest to Build the Perfect Team   Check out the full podcast with Amy C. Edmondson by clicking here. If you don't use Apple Podcasts as your audio player, you can also find every episode at this link.

This episode offers practical guidance for teams and organisations who are serious about success in the modern economy. With so much riding on innovation, creativity, and spark, it is essential to attract and retain quality talent—but what good does this talent do if no one is able to speak their mind? The traditional culture of "fitting in" and "going along" spells doom in the knowledge economy. Success requires a continuous influx of new ideas, new challenges, and critical thought, and the interpersonal climate must not suppress, silence, ridicule or intimidate. Not every idea is good, and yes there are stupid questions, and yes dissent can slow things down, but talking through these things is an essential part of the creative process. People must be allowed to voice half-finished thoughts, ask questions from left field, and brainstorm out loud; it creates a culture in which a minor flub or momentary lapse is no big deal, and where actual mistakes are owned and corrected, and where the next left-field idea could be the next big thing. Today we explore a culture of psychological safety and provide a blueprint for bringing it to life. We explore the link between psychological safety and high performance Create a culture where it's "safe" to express ideas, ask questions, and admit mistakes nurture the level of engagement and candour required in today's knowledge economy How can we fertilise creativity, clarify goals, achieve accountability, redefine leadership, and much more. Psychological safety helps bring about this most critical transformation. We welcome the author The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth and the mother of the concept of Psychological safety, it gives me great pleasure to welcome Amy C. Edmondson More about Amy here: https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/profile.aspx?facId=6451

Today's guest in the Winning Teams Podcast is a real joy to have here. He is Valerio Pascotto, Psy. D, one of the co-founders of IGEOS, together with Tim Gallwey (author of Inner Games). He's also an official member of the Forbes Coaches Council and has been involved at the highest level of coaching individuals and teams.  Valerio got a doctoral degree in psychology from Pepperdine University, has an extensive background in marriage, family and child counseling. He was always fascinated with human dynamics because he was, according to himself, poor at them early on in his life. “I have to say, though, that my heart is much more into working with people making a difference, helping people be proud of the difference that they are making with their work and in their lives.” – Valerio Pascotto Valerio started working and interacting with people and noticing when interactions have positive or negative impacts.  In this episode, Valerio shares with us a lot of fascinating and useful topics: How coaching is critical to leadership and has become a valued part of professional development The best teaching that takes place is when the teacher learns rather than the pupil. To see the impact of individual and/or team mindset using “mirror, activity and consequences” – both positive and negative Not teaching a skill, rather, unearthing a skill we already have as a species “The weakness of most team building interventions is that they do not cut deeply enough to the core of what keeps intelligent people from effective cooperation” – Valerio Pascotto The leader's hat could be a coach's hat. Listen to understand, not to respond. What is servant leadership – team mindset and equal responsibility? Difficult questions to ask yourself: What am I doing that I should stop doing? What am I not doing that I should start doing? The importance of psychological safety and the idea of a fixed and growth mindset. Redefine accountability – default versus opportunity Impact of perception and bias on leadership, which can be used positively or become an interference “Should we be accurate in our perception? Or should we frame our perception and in a way that increases our chances to meet our goals, our commitments?” – Valerio Pascotto   Book Recommendation, Habits and Where to Get in Touch:   Valerio recommends The Fearless Organization by Amy Edmondson. He had the privilege to interview her and this book explores this culture of psychological safety where people have a voice. The brain has a negativity bias so Valerio has a ritual that he uses when he talks with someone and he knows that the conversation is difficult. He spends 30 seconds thinking of something he appreciates about the person and it changes his brain chemistry. Valerio is fairly judgmental and avoids it by rather than fighting the judgment, he makes it a benevolent one. In other words, he looks for the good in intention. You can reach Valerio any time through sending him an email at vp@igeos.net. He also has quite a presence on LinkedIn so send him an invite to connect. You can also visit their website, https://www.igeos.net.

Have you ever found a framework, a diagram, that perfectly summarized an important and subtle idea? That somehow made that important idea concrete and easy to talk about?   That's why I'm really excited to share today's conversation with Emily Levada, Director of Product Management at Wayfair. We'll dive into a Trust/Communication Map that, as a manager of a huge team, helps her navigate an essential question - is our team talking too much or not enough?    On the conversation design, meta side, I want to point out this important idea: The power of a visual to focus and shift a conversation. All conversations have an interface - either the air, a chat window or a whiteboard - a *place* the conversation actually happens.    A diagram creates a narrative space for a much more clear and focused conversation to take place - the diagram triangulates all of our individual inputs and ideas.   I stumbled across Emily's medium article where she breaks down this trust/communication trade off using this simple visual map. She points out that the map we talk about is commonly attributed to technology entrepreneur and venture capitalist Ben Horowitz. In his book The Hard Thing About Hard Things he writes,    “If I trust you completely, then I require no explanation or communication of your actions whatsoever, because I know that whatever you are doing is in my best interests.” With Communication on the Y axis and Trust on the X, you clearly don't want your team in the lower-left quadrant - low trust and low communication. Things will get pretty rocky there, fast. Increasing communication can help, but wow, will your team get burnt out, fast. The upper right quadrant, from a manager's perspective, is waste - in this region, we're having too many meetings. We can likely decrease communication, slowly, until we find a perfect balance - low friction, high trust teams.    Emily, at the end of the episode outlines how she uses this diagram to have this crucial conversation with the teams she manages: Where does each member of the team feel we are on this chart? Are we spending too much time talking or not enough? If you use this diagram with your team, please let me know! Email me at Daniel@theconversationfactory.com As Emily points out, when there's total trust, there's a sense of safety - When my collaborators trust me to make things work, I feel empowered to find my own way, even if I take the long path, down some blind alleys. Psychological safety is at the absolute core of teams that can make great things happen. We need trust and safety to make good decisions. Amy Edmonson, who coined the term Psychological safety, opens her book “The Fearless organization” with this amazing quote from Edmund Burke, an English philosopher from the mid-1700s “No passion so effectively robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.” With the right balance of trust and communication, teams can feel safe to act, learn and iterate.  For all of this and a lot more, listen to the rest of the episode! Show Links The Trust/Communication Curve https://medium.com/@elevada/the-trust-communication-trade-off-4238993e2da4 Agile at a large experience design organization https://medium.com/wayfair-design/the-agile-methodology-of-a-large-experience-design-organization-178eccbb73c8   The Agile manifesto https://agilemanifesto.org/ The Five Elements of User Experience from Jesse James Garrett http://jjg.net/elements/pdf/elements.pdf   Minimum Viable vs Minimum Lovable Products https://themindstudios.com/blog/mlp-vs-mvp-vs-mmp/   Making Time in the Morning https://www.jeffsanders.com/the-5-am-miracle-podcast/   Project Aristotle and Psychological Safety https://rework.withgoogle.com/print/guides/5721312655835136/   Amy Edmondson, The Fearless Organization https://www.amazon.com/Fearless-Organization-Psychological-Workplace-Innovation/dp/1119477247   The Learning Zone https://hackernoon.com/great-teams-5f15cb718c20   The Trust Equation from the Trusted Advisor https://trustedadvisor.com/why-trust-matters/understanding-trust/understanding-the-trust-equation   High CUA Organizations, from High Output Management by Andy Grove https://www.amazon.com/High-Output-Management-Andrew-Grove/dp/0679762884/   Helpful summary is here: https://charles.io/high-output-management/ Full Transcription   Daniel:            Emily, we're going to officially welcome you to the conversation factory. Thank you for making the time to do this and for waiting for me while I fixed all of my technical difficulties.   Emily:              Thank you for having me.   Daniel:            Awesome. so you can you tell the listeners a little bit about who you are and what your role is?   Emily:              I can start. Sure, sure. I'm a director of product management at Wayfair. I own a set of technologies that sit at what we call the bottom of our purchase funnel. So when you're shopping on Wayfair, that's the product detail page, the page that tells you about the things we sell, ah, they cart and checkout experiences. And then some other things like customer reviews or financing, how you apply for financing, understand financing on our side, our loyalty program. And I run a team of product managers doing that.   Daniel:            Yeah. And so we talked a little bit about how do you get a hundred designers to all talk the same language. Like, cause you've got to, you have a big team. How do you get them all pointed in the same direction as a word? Like tell us about managing that conversation cause like you literally can't have a conversation unless you're speaking the same language. And so like there's that step back that you're working with.   Emily:              Yeah. So I just shared an article that my design partner had written about our written design process or design toolkit as you might say. I think, you know, in any organization that scaling how you build the mechanisms for people to build shared vocabulary to be using the same tools. It's one that we invest time in. I don't know that there's any magic to it besides you know, making the time to have the conversation of what's the language that we want to use. Daniel:            Yeah.   Emily:              ...And being really intentional about it, right? What's language we do want to use, what's the language we don't want to use? How do we want to talk to new employees about these things in ways that are simple and digestible for them. And then they can build on over time. And then creating the mechanisms to make sure that coordination keeps happening. And you know, I think as we get more into this, you'll see that for me, how, how people communicate across the organization is a big part of what I spend my time thinking about.   Daniel:            Yeah. I really enjoyed Jessie's article. We'll definitely link to it. One of the things that kind of blew me away was this idea that because I've worked with organizations where they're having a sense that, oh, we should have our own proprietary design thinking process. We should have our own flavor of agile. And he's like, we wanted something that anybody coming in would generally recognize. And so it's like, yeah, it's nothing. Here it is, it's kind of the double diamond. It's, it's the basics of design thinking, but doing it is the hard part.   Emily:              Yeah. And I think one thing that's interesting is that we're actually not that dogmatic about how those things get applied. So really there's a lot of license to do what works best for your team. Right. Designers are part of a cross functional team with engineers, and analysts, QA, product managers and the designer should bring the tools to bear that are gonna help us understand customer problems and talk to our customers and prototype and test things. But we, but we're creating a toolkit that designers can pull from in order to do their work effectively.   Daniel:            Yeah. It seems like a lot of work went into, into building that, that toolkit that they can pull from, but also like, I mean, this is the, this is the essence of agile, right? It's, it's, it's people and interactions over processes and tools or am I misquoting it? That's embarrassing. It's something like that. So like, let's talk about your origin story. Like how did you get into this work? How did you get your start and you know, where are you hoping to sort of ...what's next on your journey with, with the work that you're doing? Sure.   Emily:              More so. I, rewinding to, let's say college I have two degrees. I have a degree in psychology and a degree in theater production. I'm a theater kid.   Daniel:            That's amazing. I could see how that could prepare you for many, many, because everything's a circus and you know how to put on that. Let's put on a show like you know how to do that.   Emily:              Keep the drama on the stage, we say yes. I actually, there's a tremendous number of parallels that I think are really interesting. But psychology and theater, they're both studies of how individuals behave. One scientific and one's artistic, but that's a common theme. And as I transitioned in technology and got an MBA, I fell in love with the idea of customer insights. So that we could understand it and influence people's behavior with the technology that you build. And so that's kind of one thread that pulls through here. And then that, that also fuels a passion for organizational behavior. How do I understand the behavior of the people around me and how we interact with each other in the conversations that we have in our organization? And then I think the other interesting thing about theater, well there's a, there's a product management tie. Building theater is cross functional. You have designers, you've technicians. I've learned over the years that the conversation that happens between a set designer, a stage carpenter and a scenic painter is no different than the conversation that happens between the UX designer, a backend engineer and a front end engineer.   Daniel:            Okay. Can we, can you break that down? Cause like I don't think many people know those roles in maybe, maybe those words in either context. Yeah. Lay those out. Cause like this is the difference between like the, like the skin and the concept and how it works, Maybe....   Emily:              Right...Well, so, so in both cases you have someone like a designer who's coming up with a concept or understanding maybe it's user behavior or the story that we're trying to tell. The content that we want to have in what we're publishing. And then but having the concept or having the vision is different than having the executed product. And so then you have a technician, right? You have engineers you have carpenters and painters and, and then really that's really just specialization, right? Those people are delivering on the thing that's been designed. And and they may have different types of specialization. And then I think where the thing that's the same in my role about that is that what you deliver is never going to be exactly the thing that you designed. And there's a constant process of learning and discovering the unknown and prototyping or having to cut to meet a budget or a timeline changing scope.   Emily:              And that's the same, right? It's actually the same conversation. So I found a lot of skills in software development, product management that were skills that I had had developed earlier and loved that, that managing that conversation between those people and that translation between the functions. And then the other thing that I think is super relevant to the trust part of the work that I do is that the theater is a space and it's a workspace where coming to work emotionally available every day is part of what allows you to deliver the work. Like my, my early career, my conception of a business meeting was a bunch of people get in a room, we'd watch, a play. And if at the end of the business meeting everybody wasn't crying or laughing or right, whatever it was then like your product was not delivering the emotional experience that you need it.   Emily:              And so your ability to then work through you know, how do I build something that resonates more emotionally, it was a, it was a critical part of that experience. And so I think that in the business world that translates into being, you know, high EQ, whatever that means. But there are some notion that that idea that you sort of come to work present and authentic and kind of with your emotional switch "on". That is something that I'm just really interested in and passionate about. That's kind of the way that I'm built. And and so how that translates into a different, you know, range of the world that I'm in today has been interesting question. I mean, so like, let's, let's dig into that a little bit because I think the idea that our product should turn the customer on like that it should hit   Daniel:            Them and the gut the way like a great production should is a provocative one. And then like, so there's, there's these, there's that level of the, it should have that effect on our, our end user, but we should also be excited about doing it. And then I also need to sort of manage myself through that whole process of, you know bringing my best self to that dialogue, the interaction with all the people who are supposed to be making this thing. But there's a lot of, there can be a lot of conflict intention in that black box of making something that people are gonna love.   Emily:              Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I definitely, I think sometimes it's surprising to people that even just this concept of, hey, I want to build something that people love, that hey have emotional reaction to that, that I might talk about ecommerce that way. Right. Can we stupid. You're selling stuff, right? Yeah. But we all have to buy stuff, right? You right. You still want an experience that people really love. And also, you know, your home is intensely personal. And so for us, the experience of finding the right things for your home and crafting a space, crafting an environment that is a backdrop for really important parts of your life and your family and your friends your kids that's very emotional. It's a very emotional process. And so you want the tools that you're giving people to, to, to go through that journey to be emotionally resonant for them.   Emily:              You know, I think this is, there's lots of conversations about this in the product world. This is sort of, you know, you're aiming for a minimum viable product versus a minimum lovable product, right? Yeah. It's that that difference. But I think for me the organizational side of it is equally as important. You know, we, we know that we, we all want to have teams that are creative, that are risk tolerant, that move fast. And then we have these really complex organizations and at the end of the day, like how do you build teams that can do those things? My point of view is that you really need to have the emotional component in order to build teams that can, can embody those qualities. Daniel:            Yeah. So I want to go back, I want to, I want, I want to go deeper, deeper into the trust and safety piece because that's, that's important. But I was trying to find this diagram that I just sent to you. And the chat window, I need to find who originated it. This was like one of my favorite diagrams when I was getting started in UX, just to like talk about the difference between like vision and concept and details. This is another version of it. Product is functionality. Product is information. There's so many versions of this just the idea that like, there's all these different layers in the process of making something real and my own sense that like everybody wants a seat at the table, right? Cause like even those people are highly specialized where they're like, oh, I'm just gonna make an "x". If they don't understand the vision and if they're not bought into the vision, people feel excluded. Yeah. People feel like, oh, I'm just a doer. Like, so I guess my question is like, you as a leader, how do you make sure that the people who are part of creating that vision feel like they're all included? Like how do you create inclusion?   Emily:              Yeah. I mean it's interesting because yes, they want to feel included, but I would actually go so far as to say that they need to be included if you want to get the right product. Because if you tell people what to build, they'll build you what you tell them. If you tell them why you want to build it, they're going to build something better than what you asked them to build.   Daniel:            Yeah. I'm just...that's a solid gold quote right there.   Emily:              Uh and so I think that the question then very tactically becomes when is the right moment in the process to involve which person, what pieces of information are you giving them? But I think really it is about orienting around why, why are we here, what outcome are we trying to drive, not what are we trying to build. And you know, ultimately the conversation shifts to what are you trying to build. But I think partly there's a, there's also a listening aspect here, right? You listen to the conversations that people are having and if people are getting stuck and you start listening and are having conversation about the what you try to back them up to the why, right?   Daniel:            Yeah. No I agree. Yeah. I mean there's so many avenues to go down because in a way like there's another piece which is like how are you seeing the patterns and all of that and all of those conversations that you're, you're, you're pulling together cause you're, you're looking at this at an organizational level as well, right? Like you're in a lot of different places and listening to a lot of different things. Like how do you make the time to start to weave it back together for yourself and to a clear narrative like "this is What's happening?"   Emily:              Some of it is I think about pattern recognition, right? This is true of all feedback. So one thing that I say about feedback a lot is that you know, any feedback, whether you're giving, receiving feedback, it's a data point. And if you, if every piece of feedback you get, you took immediate action on and treated as equal to every other piece of feedback, like you'd go mad. And so when you get feedback or when you hear a thing, it becomes a piece of data and then up to you to look at all of the pieces of data, have you got and, see the patterns, prioritize which things you want to act on and then go act on them. And so I think, you know, as an organizational leader, as I'm doing one on ones or doing skip level meetings or listening to questions, people are asking in various forums or listening to the water cooler talk. It's sort of data that goes into the pattern recognition machine, right?   Daniel:            Which is your brain. Are you using a whiteboard or a like a dashboard or anything to track that? Or is it just really like just filtering …   Emily:              Yup. I have some, I have a notebook that I you know, clutch very tightly and carry with me everywhere I go. That I think is my primary, you know, hey, I'm just gonna write down things that I see or observe. I have a window of time. I get to work very early in the morning. I get to work at seven. And so from seven in the morning until nine when the kind of meetings start is my time to really kind of step back, reflect on what I'm need to do or what I've heard, what's new, where things are and get some focused work time. And so I think being able to just carve out the time to sort of step back and say, okay, is there anything here that I, that I need to be paying more attention to or taking more action?   Daniel:            I have to say like in so many of the interviews I've done, one of the insights for me is that of all the conversations that we have to manage and maybe design the one with ourselves is maybe the most important one. And so having just, just having a notebook is like, like that's, that's huge. Right? Yeah. Really amazing.   Emily:              Yeah. You know, I'm also very lucky, I have a wonderful set of people around me who are great sounding board for all the Times that I'm like, Hey, I think maybe there's a thing here, but I'm not really sure. I let me just say it out loud to you and play it back for me and you know, help me see if there's really a pattern or not. Yeah,   Daniel:            Yeah. Analysis through dialog. Super important. So I think it would be useful for us to talk about like, so I found that this medium article that you wrote using this, you know, don't I just love visual frameworks of trust versus communication curve. And how did you, like where did that how does that framework filter into your life? Where did it come from for you and how do you, how do you actually apply that in your own work you use? Just talk to us a little bit about that little knowledge chunk and then we'll, sure, sure,   Emily:              Sure. So we, we first introduced the concept of psychological safety, which related but not the same in 2017. I actually, so psychological safety I think was popularized based on Google work, Google's project Aristotle. There's a New York Times magazine article about it that profiles a woman who's on Google's people analytics team. And she was a classmate of mine in my MBA program. And so I had been following the work and thought it was really interesting. And we actually introduced a concept of that is one level higher than the psychological safety concept, which is the learning zone. So the, the researcher who, who came up with the concept of psychological safety actually has a framework that's two axes and psychological safety is one access. And the other access is accountability, accountability to results. And, and when you have both of those things, you get this magic thing called learning.   Emily:              And I think that what was really important about that, cause you ain't swim it cause like I'm looking at that as a two by two from like very accountable and very safe means I've learned something. Yeah. Put that together for me. Yeah. So, so very accountable means like there's pressure, there's pressure to do, right? Like you, you, you're gonna run fast because there's pressure. But if you have high pressure and low psychological safety, you get anxiety, you get fear of failure, right. That, that and that is a killer, right? Especially in an agile process where there's a requirement to like take risks and try things and it, you know, that every single thing you do is not going to be a win. What you want is for every single thing you do to teach you something, right. The, to be another step on the journey to understanding where you're going.   Emily:              Oh, this is incredibly important in spaces where I remember it's it's Andy Grove. It's from high output management. He has this concept of, high CUA organizations or tasks that is complexity, uncertainty and ambiguity, right? So you don't have a roadmap. You don't know where you're going. You have some idea where you're going, but you might be wrong. You don't really know how you're going to get there along the way. And there's a high degree of complexity that you need to be able to fail and you need to be able to challenge people's ideas. You know, we know that the creative process, it's not that people just have brilliant ideas, they actually have not great ideas that then other people add slightly less, not great things too. And then, you know, you build, you like you, you build on top of each other and you make connections and then all of a sudden there's an Aha moment that you, you've landed on something that has value, right?   Daniel:            So I would say that these CUA things can only be done through conversation. It's only through like one person can't do it by themselves. Through that, you have to…   Emily:              Right, right. And so you have to have a group. And that group has to be willing to say stupid things and to say that they disagree, to challenge the status quo. And you can't do those things if you don't have psychological safety. If you're afraid that you will be judged for what you say or for challenging, then you don't get any of that behavior. And so, so when you have psychological safety, that's when you get... And performance pressure. That's when you get, okay, we're going to try something and then we're going to learn from it. And so learning becomes the kind of cornerstone to continuous improvement with that flavor of, hey, we're willing to take risks.   Emily:              We want to move fast. We're listening to each other. We understand that the solution we get you together is going to be better than the solution any of us could come to individually. And so that, that, it was a few years ago that that really became an important piece of how my department was thinking about the culture that we wanted to build. And, and in that I was thinking about, okay, what does this mean for my teams and how do I figure out when my teams are feeling that anxiety and how can I help them have the right conversations to get them back into that learning zone? And one of the observations that I had is that we spend a lot of time talking about how we talk to each other, right?   Daniel:            Amazing!   Emily:              I say to the conversation designer but, but that in the organization that often takes the format of, you know, do we really need to have this meeting? We should add this meeting. We should remove this meeting. I think we should write a new update email. We're getting too many emails. I, everybody needs to go into this spreadsheet and fill out this information. And there's just this, there's a cycle of "add a bunch of communication and process and then think there there's too much and take it away. And then I think there's too little and add more."   Emily:              And there's a justification that, that sort of a natural cycle. And the observation that I had a, and I talk a little bit about where those pieces came from, but the kind of connection that I made in my brain at some point in doing this is that the amount of communication that you need is the dependent variable. The independent variable is how much trust you have. It's not an objective, hey, in order to do this thing, I need this amount of communication period.   Emily:              The amount of communication that you need to be successful is dependent on how much trust already exists between the individuals doing the work. And so for me the interesting moment was, hey, let's reframe all of these, communicate all of these conversations that we're having about communication into conversations about trust and what does that look like? What would that mean? Yeah. And that actually you, you these, the costs of all of this communication, we call it coordination cost often. Yeah. That it's, that it's not a given. Like as your organization gets complex, you will need more communication. That is true.   Daniel:            So I'm going to, I'm going to sketch, this diagram just for the listeners. So they don't have to go any place else like okay, it's the, the y axis is amount of communication required. The X-axis, is access trust between team members. And in a way what you're implying is that there's a, a curve, a line that goes from the upper left to the lower right where basically the more trust you have, the less communication is required. Emily:              Right? That's exactly it. To accomplish any goal, the amount of trust that you have and the amount of communication that you need or inversely related. So if you have very little trust, you need a tremendous amount of communication. If you have a lot of trust, you need way less.   Daniel:            Can I push back on this concept? Just like, cause I feel like in a way like when there's a lot of trust, communication flows really freely to be like I can see on the graph anything that's above the line is inefficient use of resources and anything below it creates like friction of confusion or like, and I've seen this in projects where you're like waiting for someone else to like tell you it's okay to do what you think needs to be done. But at the same time I feel like my fiance and I talk a lot, you know, we, we have a lot of communication. There's also a lot of trust. Like I'm checking in with her and telling her my evening plans, not because I think she's worried that she doesn't, you know, where are you off with? She just wants to know and I want to tell her. So like maybe that's, maybe that's different cause it's, it's a personal context. I don't know.   Emily:              Yeah. Maybe trust and communication are actually self-reinforcing. And so when I say you have high trust and low communication that that implies that you actually have a higher degree of communication. I think, you know, maybe you could think about this as sort of additional communication or required communication, formal communication, right? And there are lots of different ways you could cut that. Although I do think that you actually just see less communication partly because one of the primary pieces of that is if I trust you, then I trust that you will understand when I need to be involved and you will proactively communicate to me and therefore I don't need to be doing the inbound communication to you. And so you know, you, I do think that there's an opportunity. I think the, and the really important piece of that is that we think we spend a lot of time talking about how we can add or subtract communication. And my thesis is that if you actually invest in building trust in teams, you can run more efficient organizations because you reduce the amount of communication that everybody to do.   Daniel:            Wow. So that upfront investment pays off. And your, I mean this is the classic go slow to go fast. Like you're like definitely has proved for you.   Emily:              Well yeah, I mean you, you, you invest in trust that allows you to pull out this communication. It certainly makes people happier and it gives you more of these other things like a willingness to take risks. You know speed to delivery risk tolerance. Yeah. Some of those other components that I think are really important.   Daniel:            So can we talk a little bit about the mechanisms, cause you, we talked about this in the pre-talk, like what are the mechanisms of creating value for the company through that, but then there's also the question of how do you actually, what is the process by which you create this kind of trust and psychological safety in your teams? So this is like the two side, like how do you do it and then how do you show that it's, how do you prove that thing that we, we were just talking about that it's, that the investment's worth it. Yeah. Cause people ask me all the time and I have a mixed answers for that.   Emily:              Yeah. I think, you know, I do think it's hard, right? It's hard. This is why the, some of these concepts like psychological safety and trust and vulnerability and Kulik they feel squishy cause it's hard to understand the value. But I do think that one of the things that's been interesting about this framework is that it is pretty easy when you start to look around and you start to diagnose, okay, where are my teams? And you start to actually selectively pull levers like, okay, I'm going to add communication here or I'm going to just remove communication here. That as a manager, having a framework like this just helps you be more active in how you manage those things, right? So if, if a manager can, if having this framework and diagnosing where their teams are effectively allows them to pull, you know, just a handful of pieces of communication out of the system without impacting the result, it's being delivered. You're delivering value right now. If you pull that communication out in a place where you don't actually have their trust, then you, you risk poor execution on the work. Right? And so the ability to make good decisions about where you can do that and where you can I think is what I'm trying to help managers do. I think in terms of actually building trust I have one go-to tool that I share. Although there's really many, many different ways to think about this. I'm a big fan of the trust equation, which is from the book the trusted advisor. Yeah. The trusted advisor is really about building trust in client relationships. But there's this concept in it called the trust equation, which is just a one way of breaking down what does trust really mean? And that trust equation says that trust is needed before components.   Emily:              There are three things that create trust, credibility, which is I trust your words. You know what you're talking about. You say, I don't know. When you don't know what you're talking about. That's one. Reliability is you do what you say you're going to do. So I'd say trust your actions. And then the third is they use the word intimacy. That can be a loaded word in business contexts. I tend to think of that as discretion is, is probably the closest thing. Like I, I trust you with a secret. Or I trust your judgment. It can mean I, it can mean you sort of know me personally. And then there's one thing that is sort of the great destroyer of trusts, which is self orientation. So if I believe that you will act in your own self interest instead of in my best interest then I don't trust you if I believe that you will take into account my best interest and think about my point of view, then we build trust.   Emily:              And the really important thing or the reason that that's my sort of critical tool is because it allows us to give feedback about trust that's much more specific. So it allows us to give feedback, allows me to give feedback about communication that's happening in the workplace. That is feedback about trust, but using those underlying concepts. So, Hey, when you well... Shit your way through the answer to that answer in that meeting and then had to go back and admit that you didn't know what you were talking about, you damaged your credibility with that stakeholder. Yeah. Right. Or when you didn't respond to that email, you damaged your reliability yeah. Or, right, then and then the positive version of that to hey, the fact that you thought to include that person in that meeting showed low self orientation and helps you build that relationship. And so more than anything that's just given people the vocabulary to have a conversation about trust without using the squishy word of trust.   Daniel:            Yeah. Breaking it down into components. Use the word levers, which I like. I talk about that a lot in my conversation design work, which is like, wow, how do we actually grab hold of this squishy thing and say like, oh, how do we manipulate it? How we actually move in? And you're like, at least you and you can focus on reliability, credibility, intimacy and intimacy is important. Like, I, I've begun to realize like the importance of actually spending time getting to know people. Like you forget this, otherwise people think it's just transactional. And that's, that's really, really critical.   Emily:              Right? And, and I think that also sorry, I just lost my train of thought for a moment.   Daniel:            I mean it's amazing by the way, like, I don't know like that you had the trusted advisor equation in your, in your brain. Like, so you get, you get a tunnel pass, it may come back to you.   Emily:              It meant that's okay. We can keep going.   Daniel:            What's that?   Emily:              I said we could keep going... Daniel:            Oh, so we, yeah, we are actually getting close to our time. So like I usually ask the, what haven't we talked about that we should talk about, which may or may not jog your memory…   Emily:              I remember what I was thinking.   Daniel: Yeah. There's the key - distraction!   Emily:              So the other thing about the trust equation is that it's actually true that different people value different parts of that equation. Well, the other thing that it allows you to do is have the conversation of saying, you know, sometimes like I've had situations where I'm kind of not connecting with someone or we just seem to be missing each other and not building the kind of relationship that I want. And then the ability to have a conversation that's like, Hey, I, what I'm looking for really is, you know, intimacy. And the other person says, well, I really want reliability and I don't really care about intimacy in this relationship that that allows you to figure out what matters for trust in that relationship more effectively.   Daniel:            It does. And so when you, you talked about how you spend a lot of time in your team talking about conversations like this is, this is the conversation about what matters to you in your conversations with the conversation about how often you want to be talking, the conversation about all of these different pieces of it. And I just did an interview with my dear friend Jocelyn Ling. We'll publish soon as well. She was the first person who ever I sat down in a meeting with who said, let's talk about how you like to work. Are you a calendar person? I mean this was almost 10 years ago, so there was no Skype, there was Skype, there was no slack, there was, there were fewer tools, but it was still an important conversation to have.   Emily:              Right, incredibly.   Daniel:            Like I have a calendar/ spreadsheet orientation and that's like if somebody is making something in a word document that could be a spreadsheet. It, it, it, you know, cause me hives. Emily:              Right, Totally. And you know, it's important to know if you're working with someone who really needs time to digest before they get into a room, then writing that preread is going to be that much more important. Right. Or if you know, obviously understanding the intimacy part, understanding what parts of the day are more difficult for people. You know, for me, I get in super early, but then I leave, I need to get home to my kids. And so, you know, if you catch me while I'm walking out the door, I'm not going to be, no,... I'm less likely to take the time to stop and have that conversation right. Daniel:            And don't have an extra five minutes!   Emily:              I really don't. Yes. So I think that that's, those things are super important and, and actually just giving people the ability to have those conversations really openly, really directly or giving them tools to do that.   Daniel:            That's awesome. So is there anything we haven't talked about that we should talk about around trust, psychological safety, organizational conversations?   Emily:              Yeah, there's, there's no one big thing. I think, you know, my, the thing that I hope is just that people feel like this is a tool that they can use and, and to really think about that the next time they hear somebody having a conversation about communication, to think about, hey, are we really having a conversation about, about trust? Right? So somebody is asking you for communication, is it really because they don't, they don't trust some piece of this, they don't trust you're going to deliver something or we've missed an opportunity to, to keep them informed and vice versa. If people are complaining about having too much communication. Is that really because there's more trust than you're building credit for and how do we, how do we change the conversation more? Daniel:            Yeah. Well that's awesome. We, I guess, I mean I'm, I'm going to try and squeeze in one more question cause like I said, I'm looking at that framework and I'm thinking to myself is that a framework for Emily to think more clearly and to talk with another manager about stuff or is it a conversation that a team can have? Like it's not like a two by two matrix. I'm not looking at it as like a importance difficulty matrix where somebody is doing an exercise with it. It is, it is both. So there's definitely, yeah, only a piece   Emily:              Of it that is as a manager, I want to have a sense of where my team is or where different project teams that I work with are and be able to actively manage. But there's definitely a team component here and I think it's a really interesting exercise to do. It requires a really good facilitator, which is get your team in a room, draw the framework on the board, two axes and a line, right? Make sure people understand it and then say, everybody grab a marker. Where do you think we are? Or, or if you don't think your team has enough trust to do that, everybody grab a sticky note and draw the framework on your sticky note and fold it up and hand it to me, right? We'll do this sort of anonymously and then you plot on the graph like where does the team think we are?   Emily:              And the interesting conversation is not about coming to objective alignment that "we are here today", but actually that some of your team members think your team has a high degree of trust and some of your team members go, right. And how do we, you know, some, some team members think that we've got too much communication and some think we have too little because they actually have different communications styles. And, and communication isn't connecting on the same for everybody. And then how do we use that as a lead in to this conversation of, hey, how do we work more effectively as a team?   Daniel:            I'm so glad I asked that question because I think that's a really, that, that's a, it's a classic visual facilitation move of where are we, where do you think we are? And then the, the benefit is not, oh, we need to get into the same place. It's like, Oh wow, you think we're here and I think we're there. Let me hear more about what you think, why you think that. And you talked to the other person about why they think they think that's what they think. That's awesome. Okay, then we're definitely out of time now, Emily, I really appreciate you making the time for this. This is really delightful conversation. I think this is super duper important stuff for everyone to get a grasp on.   Emily:              Thanks for having me!   Daniel:            Awesome. And we'll call it "and scene!"

Learn more and pre-order book at https://disasteravoidanceexperts.com/NeverGut/"Never Go With Your Gut: How Pioneering Leaders Make the Best Decisions and Avoid Business Disasters," written by Dr. Gleb Tsipursky, published by Career Press.You can read a transcript at https://disasteravoidanceexperts.com/never-go-with-your-gut-video-and-audio-book-trailer-poor-decisions/BOOK DESCRIPTIONWant to avoid business disasters, whether minor mishaps, such as excessive team conflict, or major calamities like those that threaten bankruptcy or doom a promising career? Fortunately, behavioral economics studies show that such disasters stem from poor decisions due to our faulty mental patterns—what scholars call “cognitive biases”—and are preventable.Unfortunately, the typical advice for business leaders to “go with their guts” plays into these cognitive biases and leads to disastrous decisions that devastate the bottom line. By combining practical case studies with cutting-edge research, Never Go With Your Gut will help you make the best decisions and prevent these business disasters.The leading expert on avoiding business disasters, Dr. Gleb Tsipursky, draws on over 20 years of extensive consulting, coaching, and speaking experience to show how pioneering leaders and organizations—many of them his clients—avoid business disasters. Reading this book will enable you to:- Discover how pioneering leaders and organizations address cognitive biases to avoid disastrous decisions.- Adapt best practices on avoiding business disasters from these leaders and organizations to your own context.- Develop processes that empower everyone in your organization to avoid business disasters.Author bio: https://disasteravoidanceexperts.com/... SELECTED ENDORSEMENTS“Before you find yourself about to make another gut-based decision that will surely end badly you must take the time to read this book. It will save you from yourself!” • Leonard A. Schlesinger, PhD, Vice Chairman and COO Emeritus at Limited Brands, Baker Foundation Professor at Harvard Business School, President Emeritus of Babson College, and bestselling author of Just Start“Many habits of successful business leaders and successful millionaires go against our intuition and instincts, which is why so few become millionaires and why relatively few business leaders make consistently good decisions!”• William D. Danko, Ph.D., New York Times bestselling author of The Millionaire Next Door and Richer Than A Millionaire, Professor Emeritus at the School of Business of State University of New York at Albany“This book is a MUST-READ for any decision makers who want to reduce the risk of business failures! Get a copy for everyone in your organization!” • Lorenzo Delpani, former CEO of Revlon and other companies, Angel Investor and Entrepreneur“As Tsipursky argues convincingly, countless failed decisions and actions in companies around the world can be traced back to the glib, and ultimately foolish, idea that your gut knows more than your brain.”• Amy C. Edmondson, Professor at Harvard Business School, bestselling author of The Fearless Organization and Teaming“This groundbreaking book is badly needed! With cutting-edge research in behavioral economics and cognitive neuroscience, this book provides truly effective decision-making strategies that any business leader who hopes to succeed in the increasingly disrupted world of tomorrow needs to adopt.” • Marshall Goldsmith, #1 New York Times bestselling author, Triggers, Mojo, and What Got You Here Won't Get You There“No one reading this engaging and practical book can walk away believing they are immune to bias; anyone reading this book will now be armed with practical techniques to stop making the same mistakes over and over again.”• Sydney Finkelstein, PhD, professor of leadership at Dartmouth College, bestselling author of Superbosses and Why Smart Executives Fail, and host of the podcast “The Sydcast”“As an experienced healthcare CEO, I have seen too many leaders make poor decisions by following their gut reactions. If you want to protect yourself and others in your organization from dangerous judgment errors, make sure to get this groundbreaking book!”• Randy Oostra, PhD, President and CEO at ProMedica Health System, listed as one of Modern Healthcare 100 Most Influential People in Healthcare and one of Becker's Healthcare 100 Great Leaders in Healthcare“This book is Moneyball for management. It will teach you the techniques to help you make better decisions which will lead to a better business!” • Gordon Tredgold, Professor of Business, Economics and Law at Staffordshire University, bestselling author of Fast, Founder & CEO of Leadership Principles“This well-written, go-against-the-grain book is full of practical ways to tap into your very best mental resources to make better and better decisions.”• Brian Tracy, New York Times bestselling author of Eat that Frog! and Million Dollar Habits, along with over 70 other books

PSYCH SAFETY: Join Roxane Gardner, Kate Morse, Laura Rock, Ignacio del Moral, & Janice Palaganas as they discuss Amy Edmondson's book "The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Innovation, Learning, and Growth."