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Join Karen Stanley as she shares her journey from confronting health crises to finding renewed purpose. This episode reveals the transformative power of therapy in reshaping our self-belief and joy. We discuss real shifts therapy can spark, breaking down skepticism and fostering genuine personal and professional growth. Dive into introspection, healing, and liberation from limiting childhood narratives with us.Through our conversation, find hope and empowerment. Overcoming trauma, unlocking joy, and achieving calm confidence are all within reach with personal growth strategies. Explore resources to start your transformative journey. Let Karen Stanley's insights inspire you to turn your past into a stepping stone for future success.NOTABLE QUOTES"There's one common denominator in all of my relationships: That'd be me." – Karen"The truth is a belief." – Karen"Install the thoughts and beliefs that you want, and create the habits that you want to have. That will allow you to create that dream that you envision for yourself." – Karen"Every coach should have a coach. Every therapist should have a therapist." – Philip"Everybody needs a little bit of help. I don't care who you are, how old you are, and how much training you have. We all need help." – Karen“[For] a lot of people,... all they need is just somebody to talk to [who's] not invested, [who] doesn't know you personally, [who] you can just be honest." – Karen"Learn how to regulate your nervous system and establish the truth about who you are." – Karen"Every story matters… because you could be [that] one person, that one story, that one moment that somebody else needed to hear." – Karen“We're best suited to help the person that we used to be.” – Karen“The lack of confidence comes from your thoughts.” – Karen“It's not about perfection, it's about excellence… Create your excellence by preparation.” – Karen“Preparation allows you to let go of the feelings that you may fail or mess up.” – Karen“We need to focus on the audience, we need to not focus on ourselves, and that's that mental shift we make.” – Philip“Rather than with our message, we focus on who we were, and how we overcame that. If we want to go to the next level, we need to look at what we need to change to become that next person.” – Philip“Create new beliefs and habits that allow you to believe that it's possible, and then allow God to put that into your path..” – Karen “If something's really important, then you cannot keep it hidden.” – Karen “The more you speak that and be clear about your vision, your beliefs, and what's important to you, every single person with those same values is going to be attracted to you. You won't even be able to keep them away.” – Karen “You literally can transform, no matter what has happened to you.” – Karen “No matter what has happened in the past, it doesn't determine your future.” – Karen RESOURCESKarenWebsite: https://createtodaytherapy.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/C5zRhqvPhjl/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/karen.knudsen.333/Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@createtoday4642LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karen-stanley-832653148/Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.ph/karenstanley4/PhilipDigital Course: https://www.speakingsessions.com/digital-courseInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamphilipsessions/?hl=enTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@philipsessionsLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philip-sessions-b2986563/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/therealphilipsessions Support the Show.
Reddit rSlash Storytime maliciouscompliance where Nothing wrong with your noise? Let's see how you like it when you have a baby. **"Do your job!" ... Okay, Karen **It's just the ocean salt? Ok. **Love them ISPs **Costs more to send me the bill 6 Iron, sure Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
John interviews Karen Roberts, creator of the 6 Figures and Beyond Academy. She helps women who are overstressed, overwhelmed and underpaid. After 27 years in the fitness industry, owning her fitness studio in the Algarve and running numerous sports injury clinics across London, Karen left in 2016 to work as a coach for an online education company. After working on many coaching teams selling programs for others, she created her own, now she focuses on helping struggling coaches get their messages heard, grow their audience and get more sales as the owner of Mintwave radio station and creating the Raising Vibrations podcast network. John and Karen discuss how she came to be helping the coaching industry, keeping fit fun and fitting it in, her relationships and how they have influenced her career, and the importance of being open-minded. KEY TAKEAWAYS Karen created The Directory to help the public identify the right coach for their needs. Karen also offers an outlet for coaches through her radio station, Mintwave and through the Raising Vibrations podcast network. Realising that she enjoyed the energy from addressing groups, Karen set up her coaching program and arranged during lockdown a multi-speaker event with 20 different coaches from different specialities. Relationships are crucial to Karen and have motivated almost all the decisions she has made throughout her career. Be open to advise and information, even if at first it seems a bit ‘woo woo'! BEST MOMENTS ‘I had this idea of creating a directory really for the public as well, to come and find the right fit for them.'-Karen ‘Rather than have a ‘one size fits all' it's ‘what do you want'? Do you want to come and be a guest to get your message heard? Do you want to have your own show? Do you need help with the tech and the boring stuff?'-Karen ‘It was for my own mental health, I think, I needed something to focus on and something to offer.'-Karen ‘I think that's one of the things that keeps me interested in life and that's learning all the time.'-John ‘We all need help. To think that we can do everything by ourselves is crazy, really, and there's really no need.'-Karen GUEST RESOURCES Website : www.karenrobertscoaching.com VALUABLE RESOURCES Links: www.johnkennycoaching.comThe Bicycle Affect: https://youtu.be/oO7XZGvdWnoRelationship Video course and 1-2-1 coaching: Relationship Ready Online Programme - John Kenny (johnkennycoaching.com)To get in touch - email – john@johnkennycoaching.com or book a complimentary call –https://calendly.com/johnkennycoaching/30minIf people want to order a copy of the book then they can just pay postage of £4.95 (RRP £8.99) - www.johnkennycoaching.com/podcast-book-offerWant to be able to address the relationship issues in your life? - Why not book in for a complimentary call and we can discuss how you can get the new started with some new types of relationships - https://calendly.com/johnkennycoaching/30minThe Relationship Guy Podcast - https://omny.fm/shows/the-relationship-guy ABOUT THE HOST I am John Kenny, Award Winning Relationship Coach.Coaching people to experience healthy loving relationships. Having spent a life choosing unhealthy relationships and self sabotaging my own success, I now coach people to live a life they choose. www.therelationshipguy.co.uk CONTACT METHOD Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/johnkennycoaching LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-kenny-coaching Insta – https://www.instagram.com/johnkennycoaching/ Twitter – https://www.twitter.com/johnkennycoach} YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHTj9x6Tlo7lcIJITyx-tgQ Clubhouse - @relationshipguy This show was brought to you by Progressive Media
Volunteers are essential to nonprofits. Where can you find great volunteers? How do you motivate your volunteers to reach their full potential? Karen Knight joins us to share her expertise and years of volunteer leadership. Conversation Highlights {01:29} Introduction to Karen Knight {03:27} Tips to keep volunteers motivated {07:19} Tips to show appreciation to your volunteers {13:20} Tips to find great volunteers {15:56} Tips to make sure your volunteers don't get burned out {20:14} Tips for online volunteers {24:10} What makes a good volunteer coordinator? Remarkable Quotes Travis: The difference between laying bricks and building a wall, is vision. Travis: You've got to have a purpose to know exactly what it is that you're doing and why it matters. Karen: Train volunteers so that they're not out there fumbling and hoping they're doing it right. Karen: In Canada, 79% of people have volunteered in the past year. Karen: Great minds discuss ideas and small minds talk about people. Karen: It's not the board of directors or the executive director doing the work, it's the volunteers that get things done. Karen Knight Bio Karen Knight is a consultant, volunteer leadership expert, and a dynamic and engaging speaker. As District Director of Toastmasters International, Karen has overseen a program with twenty leaders reporting directly to her with all of them being volunteers. Karen currently serves as the Vice-President of the Board of Directors for the Kamloops Therapeutic Riding Association. She's used her 25 years of experience as a leader and mentor in the not-for-profit sector to develop a proprietary framework for turning volunteers into an enthusiastic, reliable, and committed team. Connect with Karen Knight Email: karen@karenknight.ca Website: https://karenknight.ca/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KarenKnightConsulting LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karen-knight-consulting/ Nonprofit Architect Podcast Links Website http://nonprofitarchitect.org Community https://www.facebook.com/groups/NonprofitArchitect Ultimate Podcast Guide https://nonprofitarchitect.org/ultimate-podcast-guide/ Subscribe and Leave a Review https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nonprofit-architect-podcast/id1481292481 Patreon https://www.patreon.com/NonprofitArchitect Watch on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQm8fnR2sHyrmLpV2jKYajA Listen to these other great podcasts from Veterans https://nonprofitarchitect.org/veteran-podcast-network/ Want help getting your podcast started? Visit: https://nonprofitarchitect.org/podcast-production-services/
Volunteers are essential to nonprofits. Where can you find great volunteers? How do you motivate your volunteers to reach their full potential? Karen Knight joins us to share her expertise and years of volunteer leadership. Conversation Highlights {01:29} Introduction to Karen Knight {03:27} Tips to keep volunteers motivated {07:19} Tips to show appreciation to your volunteers {13:20} Tips to find great volunteers {15:56} Tips to make sure your volunteers don't get burned out {20:14} Tips for online volunteers {24:10} What makes a good volunteer coordinator? Remarkable Quotes Travis: The difference between laying bricks and building a wall, is vision. Travis: You've got to have a purpose to know exactly what it is that you're doing and why it matters. Karen: Train volunteers so that they're not out there fumbling and hoping they're doing it right. Karen: In Canada, 79% of people have volunteered in the past year. Karen: Great minds discuss ideas and small minds talk about people. Karen: It's not the board of directors or the executive director doing the work, it's the volunteers that get things done. Karen Knight Bio Karen Knight is a consultant, volunteer leadership expert, and a dynamic and engaging speaker. As District Director of Toastmasters International, Karen has overseen a program with twenty leaders reporting directly to her with all of them being volunteers. Karen currently serves as the Vice-President of the Board of Directors for the Kamloops Therapeutic Riding Association. She's used her 25 years of experience as a leader and mentor in the not-for-profit sector to develop a proprietary framework for turning volunteers into an enthusiastic, reliable, and committed team. Connect with Karen Knight Email: karen@karenknight.ca Website: https://karenknight.ca/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KarenKnightConsulting LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karen-knight-consulting/ Nonprofit Architect Podcast Links Website http://nonprofitarchitect.org Community https://www.facebook.com/groups/NonprofitArchitect Ultimate Podcast Guide https://nonprofitarchitect.org/ultimate-podcast-guide/ Subscribe and Leave a Review https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nonprofit-architect-podcast/id1481292481 Patreon https://www.patreon.com/NonprofitArchitect Watch on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQm8fnR2sHyrmLpV2jKYajA Listen to these other great podcasts from Veterans https://nonprofitarchitect.org/veteran-podcast-network/ Want help getting your podcast started? Visit: https://nonprofitarchitect.org/podcast-production-services/
HIGHLIGHTSEmbrace the learningBe strategic and intentional Failing is all part of itSellers struggle because they tie their self-worth to their numbersReflect and remove the biasSeek to get better, not be scared to failHave self-awareness and willingness to be reflective. Educate not convinceQUOTESKaren: “I left no rock unturned and I made it impossible for them to say no to me and that desire to always push myself never left me that's why I had a great career.”Collin: " I think the biggest thing and such an important skill if you wanna be an elite seller is not being afraid to fail because if you're scared to fail, you don't get your bat or you never take your shot, and if people can get over that and test and experiment and push themselves farther than they thought possible, which can lead to very successful results in whatever it is your doing in your role.”Karen: "If you're not willing to fail then you can cross off your willingness to succeed because it's all part of it. " Karen: "You gotta build it from the ground up based on how your buyers are buying. You can't just retrofit it. You got to start from the ground up with your buyers in mind." Collin: "Mapping out the buyer's journeys and building the sales process around that. So many sales organizations get stuck around trying to make the buyer's journey mapped to their sales process."Karen: It's common upon us, sales professionals, to take our future in our hands. For whatever reason your company is not supporting you and not giving you your sales force navigator, take the $300 a month and invest in yourself. Don't be afraid to spend on that. You're developing you as a person. The stronger you are as a person, that's gonna spill over your professional world.Karen: “I think a lot of people start at the behavioral level. Back it up and start with a belief. The behavioral level is going to be short-lived because willpower will only take you so far. Really look inward and ask if there is a bit of self-sabotage going on? Do I believe in myself and my abilities? That belief will influence the behavior and that will drive the results.”Karen: “Believe in yourself, and if you don't, lean into why, what's holding you back. Whether you can get that awareness of yourself, or you can talk to a friend or a mentor. A lot of the behavior stops because the belief is missing.”Learn more about Karen in the links below:Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/karen-kelly-sales-trainer-/Website - https://www.k2perform.com/Podcast - https://pod.link/1549646427Learn more about Collin in the link below: LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/collin-saleshustle/Also, you can join our community by checking out @salescast.community. If you're a sales professional looking to take your career to greater heights, please visit us at https://salescast.co/ and set a call with Collin and Chris.
The NoteWorthy concert series is presented by WDAV in partnership with the FAIR PLAY Music Equity Alliance . The series brings together gifted Black and brown artists from the Charlotte music scene with classical musicians for some genre-blending, community building music. Karen Poole, a singer/songwriter and contemporary gospel artist, is joined by trumpeter Keenan Harmon, one of the classical musicians who perform with her in the NoteWorthy concert series. They speak about their different musical backgrounds and what it was like to come together to perform Karen’s original songs. Karen Poole Keenan Harmon Transcript: Frank Dominguez : This is Frank Dominguez for WDAV’s Piedmont Arts. On Wednesday, September 1st at 7:30 p.m., WDAV continues the NoteWorthy virtual concert series presented in partnership with the FAIR PLAY Music Equity (Initiative). The series brings together gifted Black and brown artists from the Charlotte music scene with classical musicians for some genre-blending, community-building music. Next in the series, we feature singer-songwriter and contemporary gospel artist Karen Poole and joining in support of her terrific talents are a trio of classical musicians including violinist Alice Silva, trombonist Brent Ballard, and trumpeter Keenan Harmon, who joins me now via Zoom along with Karen to talk about the concert and their own musical journey. Welcome, Karen and Keenan. Karen Poole : Thank you. Frank : Karen, I noticed from the bio information at your website that like a lot of gifted musicians, you were born into a musical family, so tell me a little bit about them and what you learned from them. Karen : Yeah, absolutely. I was the baby of the family, so I got the opportunity to watch my parents as soloists and some of my older siblings just navigate, moreso in the gospel of church scene. So we were very, very heavy into the music department of our church, and I just had the opportunity to learn just standing up on people’s shoulders and looking, watching. (I’m) very blessed to have a front seat experience into this. (On a) typical day in our home, you’d hear about three or four songs singing at once. (Laughs) That’s what that was like. Born into it. Frank : And what about a formal education in music of any kind? What was it like for you? Were you exposed to that? Karen : I did some... I want to say not formal, but more so informal training. I’ve had very great mentors throughout the years who’d sit down with me (and) teach me theory and things of that nature. I actually don’t - I’m not very fluent at reading charted music, but I have very strong ear training, and I can read some chord charts as well. But in that regard, no, I never had formal training, it’s all natural giftings that I had. Frank : And that’s nothing to be sneezed at, of course. You know, one of the things that I've discovered over and over again in these conversations, whether it's about NoteWorthy or if I'm interviewing Black classical artists who are singers or instrumentalists, is just the amazing conservatory that's provided by the Black church music tradition. There’s so much inspiration there. Keenan, what about you? What was your coming up like? Did it include a lot of music? Keenan Harmon : My family - I wouldn't say that my family is very musical, but [they’re] music lovers. And that’s, to me, part of the human condition. So, I rarely run into people that don’t have some affiliation with music or some love for it. But in all reality, I kind of discovered or felt that I was heeding this call from a very young age, and my parents had kind of a little bit of a diverse music taste. I mean it was kind of old school eclecticism, so I grew up around Motown, church music… I, too, am the youngest like Karen, so my brothers were really into popular music at the time, which was kind of the early hip hop scene. And what ended up happening is [that] I felt really drawn to being a trumpet player, and then more or less, I stumbled on some recordings at a very young age that impacted my life. When I was about eleven and I started playing, I was able to hear a classical CD, it was a mostly Baroque type of thing and had a lot of trumpet on it, and likewise my mother had bought this Miles Davis CD, and at the time I knew nothing too much about it. You know, she had been familiar with Miles. And it was actually the Live at Montreux album that was done in the last year of his life. And not knowing any of that, I asked her could I open the CD and listen to it, and here I am listening to the CD, and I thought, “My goodness, as a trumpet player I could play something like this. Something Baroque, and I could play something like this, something that’s jazz.” And so that’s kind of how… that spearheaded what I’ve been drawn to in my career as a musician. Frank : Karen, talking about those wide ranges in sound, your sound is a good example of how eclectic contemporary gospel music can be. I think people hear that and assume it’s going to sound a certain way, but you have a very eclectic and versatile sound. What are the sources and the elements that go into your music? Karen : First of all, I'm glad you recognize that. The best way I can describe my music is gumbo: it’s like a little bit of everything. I would say I listened to a lot of traditional gospel growing up, but definitely (was) introduced to more of a jazzy sound probably in my late teens. I started being introduced to Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, that kind of sound, Yellowjackets… and I’m somewhat of a late bloomer because we had a very strict household growing up, so it was only gospel music that I was allowed to listen to. So I was a late bloomer being introduced to other styles. And still to this day, I’m still grasping a lot of the classic tunes out there. I’m still evolving musically because of that, so I’m actually grateful for it. And then I’d listen to more of the contemporary Christian music, like Matthew West and Lady Antebellum, stuff like that, just kind of listen to those songs, and they’re very pure sounding. And I love, actually, country music - just the way it tells a story, and the sounds from the violins and strings, all those things. Alice actually played on that (in) the performance we did, she played the violin parts for (one of my) song(s). And it was just amazing to be able to partner with (the classical musicians) and have a range of sounds that they could dig into with me, so I was excited about that. Frank : I really noticed that, in the little bit of the sessions that I've been able to hear, that it was just incredibly eclectic. And your description of gumbo, I don’t think could be more apt. As a former Louisiana resident, that takes us to the tastiness of gumbo and the tastiness of your sounds, because I really hear that country and all of those various influences in there. It's really wonderful. Keenan, as a working musician, versatility is pretty much a requirement for you. I mean you've been able to play all sorts of music, and you have to in order to put together enough gigs to make a living. So what are some of the disparate events that you play regularly - the kinds of places where you bring your talent to bear? Keenan : I’ve done a lot of shows. There was a time where I'd done quite a bit of opera orchestra stuff for a while. Shows tend to run longer and pay more, so I would do that. Frank : By shows, you mean Broadway shows? Keenan : Musicals and such, yes. On top of that, a lot of chamber music stuff. Some friends of mine and I started to do a lot of collaborations and just be on each other’s radar always to at least be available for performances and various things, and then there’s also recording work that I’ve been known to do. There was a short time - well, I say short, it was about four and a half years - [when] I worked with some guys out of Nashville. They had been in this area and they were bringing a lot of musicians in from the Nashville area, and so I got to work and collaborate and do concerts with them as well. It’s kind of like Karen had said, it’s an evolution on a continuum, and so you try to stay ahead of that and you make sure you’ve got a good namesake, you’ve got a good reputation and like you had said, versatility is the key. I’ll put it to you like this. I tell people oftentimes that musicians, particularly in the freelance community, have to practice music like an attorney practices law, like a doctor practices medicine. I am continually studying, because authenticity is very important to me. Being genuine. Whenever I’m playing something, if we go back to Baroque or classical, [making sure] that my ornaments are proper when I’m ornamenting the music. And similarly, that I’m very fresh on ideas if I’m doing something that’s jazz. The pandemic put a different dynamic on that, but what I found more or less is that I worked. You know, I look at last year and I worked fruitfully. One show got cancelled, one musical. Other than that, some of the concerts that I would normally do at certain times a year, like towards the holidays, they went on. So it’s a testament that people really wanted to experience some normalcy, so live music was a part of that. And then on top of that, it was just the fact that it was the determination of the musical community to try to make that happen. And so that's really how you can make (a) living. You’ve just got to persevere through it and stay fresh. Frank : Karen, you touched on this in one of your answers earlier, but I want you to go a little deeper into what it was like collaborating with the musicians in this NoteWorthy session that folks will be seeing on September 1st. What was it like working with them, and what did they bring to your songs that you had already written and created to give them a different sound or a different life, if you will? Karen : It was inspiring in a lot of ways. For example... the first song we did that night, “High Praise,” when I produced the music, I had recorded keyboard horns on it and while they sound good, it’s nothing like having a real horn player on it. So, I sent the music and I let [the classical musicians] know, “Hey. I don’t actually have this charted out, but if you can try to follow this pattern, that would be great.” And Keenan was so, so easy to work with. He said, “Okay, we’ll get it. We’ll figure it out.” At our first rehearsal, he had it charted out for him and Brent [Ballard], and they nailed it. It was just very minor little things that we had to adjust here and there, little nuances like something is staccato, not legato, but very, very minor. They brought my song to life, and it was amazing to hear music that I had created live that way. It was just amazing. And then on top of that, to build a relationship with them to where even beyond this NoteWorthy performance, we can still collaborate on some other things, I can refer him for some things and vice versa, and bring him on for other shows that I might have. And now it’s forced me to have my music officially charted out. So, moving forward, I will always have this thanks to NoteWorthy. I’m grateful - amazing experience working with them. Frank : I have a last question for the both of you, and that's what would you like to see more of in the Charlotte live music scene? What's missing right now that you think would take it up a notch and make it a better scene for both musicians and audiences? Keenan : For Charlotte, it’s really that connectivity of having people both aware of what goes on musically in Charlotte, because that’s not always the case, and then on top of it, it's to build that culture. Right before the pandemic, I was in Chicago, and I’d gone to see a couple of different performances while I was there and what amazed me - because it had been a long time since I had been to Chicago - it was just being an audience member. That was the most awe-inspiring thing was to watch how audiences were connected and interacted with various music, whether it was a classical or a jazz thing. You just had that community. So in the Charlotte area, there’s a thirst for it, I think. It’s just a matter of that connection that’s there. Having Charlotte have enough room for music is kind of the big goal because we’re making room for a lot of things in this area. Lots of things. And music, I feel like, has always been here. It’s just the awareness is the thing, I would say. Frank : Karen, you’re here a little more recently. What have you observed in your time here? Karen : My answer may not be what you expect, but honestly, in my time here - it's been about four and a half years - I’m actually quite pleased, because the first couple of years of me being here, I was not very well-known. I made some connections with some individuals in the music scene here, like I met Tim Scott, Jr. once on a show, I think it’s called the Soulful Noel, that they do at Christmas time every year, put on by Quentin Talley. I met some folks who said, “Hey, we need an extra background singer, can you come on.” So, by me being there, I made some small networks there, and just earning my place, if I can say that. They got a chance to see how I flowed in the background. And somewhere around the middle of 2019, I was offered an opportunity to do my own show. I had my own set. It was just a small acoustic session put on by Arsena Schroeder, and that was really exciting for me because I hadn’t performed my music at all since I’d moved to Charlotte. I’d put out a couple of singles working with a great producer, Johnny Abraham, who was also playing keys on the NoteWorthy performance. When I did that show, people were like, “Wow, we need to see more of this.” And so that really opened up opportunities for more performances. I didn’t do very many, but the ones I got were impactful. I think that was in July of 2019, and somewhere in September, I had the opportunity to open for a major artist, Tweet, and then from there, it built the energy to say hey, I’m going to go ahead and try to finish my album. I had never put out a full length album. Yes, the pandemic hit in 2020, and I had plans to do a small live recording... we did it in February of 2020. The plan was to do that and then work on a few more, and I was going to have an album done, ready to release it on Easter of 2020. But we shut down. Even despite that, though, I’ve just got to say it catapulted me, because I got all the tools I needed to finish recording at home. Folks around here in the music community were very much on board to work with me, and we got the album done, and I put it out in February of this year. So, even in the course of that time, I was able to do a few virtual shows, we did some shows with John Tosco. Although we were shut down, I think Charlotte did a great job of keeping us busy. As a newcomer, I’m impressed. Frank : Well, I'm impressed with both of you, and I'm so excited from these conversations that I've had with NoteWorthy artists to see what this music scene’s going to be like when we get back to being able to comfortably perform in person, and it just seems to me like the talent that's going to be showcased is going to surprise a lot of people. So I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes. My guests have been two of the performers of the next virtual concert in the NoteWorthy series from WDAV and FAIR PLAY Music Equity Initiative, singer-songwriter and contemporary gospel artist Karen Poole and trumpeter Keenan Harmon. The concert streams on Wednesday, September 1st at 7:30 p.m., and it will also feature violinist Alice Silva and trombonist Brent Ballard. You can get more information and find a link to the Facebook Live and YouTube event at NoteWorthyClassical.org . Thank you so much, Karen and Keenan, for speaking with me. Karen : Thank you. Keenan : Thank you. Frank : For WDAV’s Piedmont Arts, I’m Frank Dominguez.
Inspiring Wellness With Karen Pyke Are you healthy as an entrepreneur? We are all busy workers. We all work too hard, but I think work and play are relative to your position and mindset. In this episode, Karen Pyke from Inspire Wellness talks to us about health mindset. Learn more on how to be a healthy entrepreneur at dorksdelivered.com.au How To Tell if You Are Healthy Sometimes, you're running from appointment to appointment, you go to these fast-food restaurants and ultimately that can have a detrimental effect. What are some of the telltale signs that show if you are healthy or not? Karen: I think health is a really hard thing to define. Different people have different interpretations of what health is to them. The general telltale signs are a little bit of tiredness, fatigue, headaches, bloating, aches and pains, and needing to grab a coffee to give you that extra energy boost. They're the things that tell you that the body is not probably functioning the way it needs to function. How To Work Out the Balance Can you have too much of a good thing? What if you're working too hard but you love doing what you're doing? Karen: I guess it's working out what is too much. There are 24 hours in a day. Can somebody work 24 hours a day? Potentially they can, but it's what is going to happen later in life if you keep working at that speed. We need to have a balance within life. Between work, play, and rest, the body can only function a certain amount based on the nutrients that it receives. If you're continually burning all of those nutrients and you don't refuel your body either by taking a rest, by what you eat, or by what you drink, eventually something is going to stop. That's different for different people. That could be 6 weeks for some people, and 6 months for others. We know that there's a certain amount of sleep that the body needs, and it's when we sleep that the body repairs and recovers. That's when it sets you up for the next day. Some people can survive on 6-hour sleep. Some people need 8 hours. Some people probably can survive on 3 or 4 hours at a time, but eventually, something will give. I have a lot of respect for sleep. I think it's the most important thing. If you don't sleep well, your muscles don't recover so if you go to the gym, you're kind of just wasting your time. Why Do Entrepreneurs Need Good Physical and Emotional Health I became single in 2017, and that meant I lost a business partner and obviously my mental health wasn't 100% while I was going through a breakup. I thought I could power through it, so I continued to do whatever I could. I was eating reasonably healthy and going to the gym, but the amount of work that I had to do meant that I wasn't in check with my balance. I went from talking as a reasonably confident young man to developing a stutter; I wasn't able to talk on the phone. I could not get words out. We had to start culling clients so that I didn't have that happening inside me. Be Aware of Your Balance What are some of the ways that you can make sure that you don't find out the way that I found out? How can you make sure that you keep yourself in check beforehand? Karen: I believe that everything in life is individual. There's no one right or wrong for every person. It's really kind of sitting down and looking at your day, your life, how you feel—everything—on that individual basis. 1. Plan Karen: When my clients come in and I feel that they are running a little bit too high, I tell them to stop and have a plan for their day and themselves to know what they're doing. We give a lot of time. As entrepreneurs, we want to put so much time into our business. You can only put that much time into your business if you put into yourself as well, so plan your time around yourself and your nutrition. What am I going to eat today? How am I going to fuel myself? Can I get nutrient-rich food into me or is it going to be the fast food, the empty calories, the kind of things that aren't going to fuel me for success? I truly believe that planning is the key to everything that we do. It just sets you up for success. 2. Assess Karen: Work out what's realistic in your life. Is it just me? Is there anyone else that I need to give time to within my life? Do I have a family? Have I checked in on my friends recently? Have I been out socially? If you're not doing those things and the only thing you are focusing on is your entrepreneurial pursuits, something's going to have to give eventually. You've got to give time back to yourself and nurture yourself. Is it okay to sort of go on stints and not have a balance throughout the whole week? For instance, you got a big project or starting a business can be a huge amount of work. Is it okay to work hard for a month and then play hard for a week or two? Karen: No, I don't think so. I believe that balance should always be there. Obviously, there's always going to be things that come up and impact our day. We planned to work for 5 hours but ended up working 10 hours. That's okay every now and again, but that shouldn't be every single day. Ask yourself what didn't happen that day that created that? It's reflecting on those moments and how you can prevent that from happening. I think every day should be balanced. Check yourself before you wreck yourself. I've gone through phases. I've built up my business, and it was financially stable. I'm in a service-based industry so I'm meant to be talking to people a lot. When I started being unable to talk to people, I was spinning my wheels. I haven't built the business to the success that I wanted it to be, and mentally, that isn't a good spot to be in. Physical Health and Mental Health Your nutrition and lifestyle hopefully support your mental health and your physical health. Your mental health plays a big game, your physical health plays a big game. From an entrepreneur's perspective, how are they tied together? Is there something that you think you need to get yourself mentally well to get physically well? Karen: I think they're both so closely interrelated. It's so hard to define and say if I concentrate on my mental health, my physical health is going to be great or if I just concentrate on my physical health, my mental health is going to be great. It can't be that simple. It's really looking at everything as a whole and thinking about how you can understand when those points are out of balance. Stop and allow yourself to understand. Ask yourself: What are the signs that I'm becoming out of balance? What do I need to do to bring myself back into balance? If I'm really busy at work, the first thing I drop is the gym. If I haven't gone to the gym for a week and a half, I find myself lacking clarity and that affects me mentally because I haven't been doing the physical exertion that I would have otherwise. I don't know any way out of that. I think it's just about being aware of it and bringing yourself back into balance as soon as you have. As you said, it all ties together and it all feeds together. Karen: I have one particular client who's suffering a little bit with their mental health, and they were going to the gym too much to help themselves with their mental health, to give them clarity. But then, they were working really hard as well, and that was impacting their mental health. Something had to give, and I actually told them to have a day off the gym. Sometimes we think that we need to go to the gym to help with our mental health, but sometimes the gym might be impacting our mental health more. With deadlines, I tell people to stop and think what would be the worst-case scenario if they didn't hit the deadline. Is the world going to end tomorrow if you don't put that extra hour in when you're absolutely exhausted and you need to go to bed? What happens if you actually go to bed, you get up in the morning, you're fresh and you find a solution to your problem within 15 minutes, instead of spending extra 2 or 3 hours at night trying to fix it and work it out? Sometimes it's okay to not always push for those deadlines. A fresh night's sleep is huge. My PT said having a rest and a break away from work is great to sharpen your sword. Your mind never stops. When you're sleeping, everything's being put into order. Our mind is always working. "Go to sleep with a question, wake up with an answer." A big problem that I have is I create synthetic timelines and synthetic deadlines. "I have to get it done by this date. Why? Because I said so. I've got other things that I want to work on that trump this project. I just want to see this project finished." But I'm also a stickler for details. I don't want to see it 80% finished; I want to see it 99.99% finished. That is a downfall for me, but again, being aware of it helps you out. Karen: Like with kids, we always tell our kids to actually get up, walk away, have a break, go outside, and play for a while, yet we don't do the same and we think we can't because we've got to get this finished. The truth is we can and if we actually take those breaks, we give our mind a bit of a rest so the thoughts come back. It's like the network, which is being clogged with thoughts, clears up. How Do Entrepreneurs Eat On average, how do you see the diet of entrepreneurs? Are we generally healthy or generally not healthy, or is it widespread and mixed? Karen: Absolutely. I think that a lot of the time, we don't understand the importance of fuel inside us and what that actually does to help fuel everything else within our body. Starting Is the Hardest Bit Karen: A lot of people always get up with good intentions, but then work-life balance doesn't actually hit the way it's supposed to. We then don't always follow through on our good habits. We become too busy, so we grab those fast foods or pull into service stations on our way running between clients. We don't actually drink enough water. I think everybody eats the best way they feel they're eating for themselves at the time, but it's not necessarily the right food to fuel them and help them with the energy they need to get through the day. Fast food is not only not healthy but also pretty expensive. I lost 38 kilos, but what I found was not having some of the temptations there really helps out. I saw something the other day. What they did is they put the guitar right next to the lounge and they put the TV remote in a drawer in a bedroom. When they get home from work, they don't sit down and watch TV because now it's too inconvenient to grab that remote and have that bad habit. This then changes that habit into a good habit, and then they started playing the guitar. Starting is the hardest bit. You need to remove some of the ease to get the bad things, create friction there and make it easier to get some of the good things and produce good habits. Follow Through on Good Habits What is normally the timeline that you'd say to get people conditioned to be in a good balance? Karen: I really do work on individualised nutrition. I encourage people to eat real foods again, not McDonald's or KFC, the real whole foods that you can buy from the outside of the supermarket, not the inside aisles, but the garden market, the butchers. Once I get people eating the right foods for them to fuel them, the change is pretty instantaneous. People can recognise within a couple of weeks that this is the right food to fuel them. I normally work around a 3-month period to really kind of understand that somebody can eat a certain way and make a habitual change to keep this ongoing. We don't need to be grabbing snacks all the time. We don't need to be using caffeine to pick us up for energy. There are other ways to fuel ourselves. Just Give It a Go, Work With Nutrients I was also dealing with a lot of skin problems like dermatitis, eczema, and psoriasis. I went to a few different places, and they told me to cut out certain foods for about 3 months. The list was as long as your arm. Surprisingly, all the whole foods, all the good foods that don't have preservatives in them, weren't on the list. I decided to cut out everything on the list at once and eat just the healthy things that were nutrition-dense but calorie-poor. The advantage is I lost about 2 kilos a week. The gym kept most of it off, and that was three and a half years ago. I realised I am thinking clearer, performing better, and sleeping less but not because I didn't have the opportunity to sleep but because my body was just waking up. I'd go to bed at 11 PM and then I'd wake up at 3:30 AM, and my mind would be racing with thoughts and energy. I also started doing polyphasic sleeping—sleep for 30 to 40 minutes in the afternoon—and I don't drink caffeine. It showed me the importance of food, and that changed my relationship with food completely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P8Av1hRqjU Do I still like eating pizza? Absolutely, but I'm aware of what is good and bad food to have on a pizza. I was on a quite heavy meat diet, and I cut out all meat because they were on the list. I went raw vegan for three or four months, and it was amazing. I was still building muscle and checking with body composition scans. I told a few friends that I thought I found the elixir of life, and they said they could never quit meat. Karen: The way I look at it is it was the nutrients that you found. I never look at calories in food. I couldn't tell you what calories are in a particular food. I never work with calories. I only work with nutrients. It's the nutrients that your body needs to allow you to sleep, have clarity, function, and allow metabolism to work again. Once you've got all those nutrients right and if it's the excess weight that your body wants to release, it will release it. If it's dermatitis that you want to get rid of, you've given your body the right fuel through those nutrients to get those metabolic pathways working to help with those skin issues. By cutting out all of what I call non-food—the foods that have no nutrients in them—you started to put nutrients back into your body and that's what your body needed for fuel. I went to lose the eczema. Before that, my hands would open up in the middle of the night and start bleeding all over the bedsheets. It was absolutely terrible, so it is a huge transformation. As I said, it really lets you sort of respect the position that you're in. My wife's father was diagnosed with cholesterol and high blood pressure about six years ago. He was told he needs to be on these tablets and do this. And he decided to just try being healthy: eat healthily, go to the gym, and have balance. He's running a business with 50 employees, so he definitely understands the stresses of running a business. When he lost the weight, he's never felt better in his life. All the health problems that he had were all gone. Everything is perfect now. It's just about finding that balance. Pressure, Stress, Alcohol, and Relaxation It's important to know how to deal with pressure and stress. When it comes down to relaxation, pressure, and stress, where does alcohol sit in the mix? Karen: It's interesting the way alcohol is dealt with on a daily basis. When we look at the Australian dietary guidelines, they used to have a certain level that we can actually have alcohol. Recently, they've taken that out. There is no prescribed level of alcohol in the Australian dietary guidelines. The way I look at alcohol is, as with everything else, we should be able to enjoy things if we want to. We shouldn't rely on them to provide us with relaxation. We shouldn't be using them to help us calm down if we're stressed, and I think that's then where alcohol probably gets abused a little bit. It's like, "I've had a really stressful day. What am I going to do? I'm going to sit down, have a beer or a glass of wine." That's when I think it's taken out of context. If you're having a nice meal and you're sitting with friends and everyone wants to enjoy a nice glass of wine, that's great. But it shouldn't be used to fix a dysfunction within the body or for stress relief. Sometimes, we use alcohol to celebrate and socialise, but it can be the demise if you're using it to paralyse any of the symptoms of stress. I'm guilty of that. I know that I've been in a spot where my mind is going at a million miles an hour and you have a quick whiskey and then all of a sudden you kind of just focus more, but it's not for the right reasons. We shouldn't be doing that. Karen: Absolutely. It's like having a whiskey to fall asleep. My question is why can't you sleep. Let's work out why we're not sleeping first and let's fix that. If you want a whiskey, you have a whiskey because you're enjoying a whiskey, not to get you to sleep. And not enjoying a whiskey every night unless that's your job. Metabolic Health and How To Inspire Wellness You've been running Inspire Wellness for a little bit of time now. What are the reasons that people would want to come to you? How can you help them out? Karen: What I work on at Inspire Wellness is metabolic health. Metabolism is responsible pretty much for everything we do. It's responsible for movement, heat production, stress, weight gain, weight loss. There are thousands of chemical reactions happening in our bodies every single day. Our lifestyle, what we've eaten in the past, the toxins we're exposed to basically takes it all out of balance. What I do is pull that back into balance. We do a body reset. We actually look at individualised nutrition for everybody because everybody walking through the door has different requirements for the way they eat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1H7LUmulJM At the moment, there's a lot of information out there on the Paleo diet, some vegan diets, the Mediterranean diet. Yes, they'll work for some people, but they won't work for everybody because it's not what that person needs. The people that I work with are the people who recognise that there is a dysfunction happening within their body, within themselves. Whether they want to lose weight, they're experiencing headaches, or they're on medications that they don't want to be on anymore and they want to take control back of their life, we help them with food. Food and fluids are the only things you can put inside you that will actually get everything functioning again. There's not a lot of exercises that you can put inside you to do that; exercise has other benefits. It's really looking at anything out of balance, like after we eat, do we get bloated after we eat? Do we have to sit and have a rest after we've eaten because we have no energy? That's a dysfunction within the body. That's why we look at them individually. We find out the right foods for them, and then we teach them how to eat them to then live their life. We only have a certain amount of time within our lives that we work. At the end of that time, we want to enjoy the rest of our life. We want to be able to travel. We want to be able to spend time with our grandkids. We want to be able to walk along the beach. If you don't look after yourself through your working life, when you get to the end, there isn't any time because you're out of balance, you've got dysfunction, you've got some lifestyle disease. We're in too much pain that we don't get to enjoy it. I want everyone to enjoy the rest of their lives. You are exactly right. We're working for most of our lives. "If you put wealth before health, you'll be sure that when you retire, you'll be spending your wealth on your health." I was only talking earlier about my mom and some of the problems that she's running into at the moment. She lives a reasonably healthy lifestyle, probably could have eaten less of some of the deep-fried food. The thing is things can happen to anyone, but putting as many preventative measures at least doesn't accelerate whatever could happen to you. Karen: And I think recognising those symptoms. When people come to me, we go through a certain number of questions, like do you ever experience headaches? They would say they get it most days but that's just normal. I would say that's not normal. I think it's actually allowing yourself to realize that something is not right and something is out of balance. Sort it out now, and feel great again. I want everyone to feel amazing. When I went through that transformation, it was amazing. Beforehand, I was having pizza once or twice a week. I was going out for Korean barbecue once or twice a week. I was eating heaps of food and not necessarily the best types of food. But once you find that balance, it'll change your life. Contact Karen Pyke and feel amazing again! We take our car to the mechanic every six months to get a service and a check. Check in and see where you're at. It would be worthwhile. If people want to better understand their positioning, to be able to deal with things such as stress or understand more about the health of their body and wellbeing, is there any book or resource out there that you would suggest? Karen: What I would do is I would do a Google search on metabolic health and what it really is and really understand the signs and symptoms of dysfunction within the metabolism. Jump onto Inspire Wellness and learn more about Metabolic Balance® It's about being aware of it. When I was overweight, I thought that the amount of energy that I had is what I was meant to have. I thought that the way that I was waking up every morning—feeling a bit groggy and wanting to click the snooze button—was how it should be. Being aware of it changed my life. I feel like Superman now, and before I felt like a sloth, but I wasn't aware that I was a sloth. I thought this is just how it was. Karen: Before, I was actually a vegetarian for six years. I was eating incredibly well. I gained weight. I couldn't lose it. I was tired. I wasn't sleeping that great, had aches and pains. I was eating a great diet, but it wasn't the right diet for me. So it's not just eating bad foods; it's sometimes eating the wrong foods for you. A lot of my clients that come in would write down what they're eating and it's a great diet; it's just not the right diet for them. That's definitely good advice. I've got friends that have tried doing what I'm doing and on Day 3, they're feeling like they're going to fall apart. What is business freedom to you? What is business freedom to you? Karen: There are probably a couple of ways of looking at it. Business freedom to me is having a business that doesn't feel like work. I work because I love doing what I do. Also, knowing that I can stop when I need to but having something where I'm giving back to people, like resources so people can still go to my website and find out how to stay healthy. It's also having a business where I can spend time with my family, with my friends. Putting those boundaries in place within a business so that I'm not the business all the time. It's the vehicle to support them as opposed to the other way around. If you enjoyed this and want to ask Karen, join our Facebook group or go to Inspire Wellness, leave us some feedback, send us some love at iTunes and stay healthy and stay good.
In this episode of We Chat Divorce, we're joined by Rebecca Zung to discuss the topic of How to Negotiate With a Narcissist. Here's an overview of Rebecca's experience: Rebecca is a narcissism negotiation expert, and one of the top 1% of attorneys in the nation, having been recognized by U.S. News & World Report as a “Best Lawyer in America”, as “Legal Elite” by Trend Magazine. She is the author of two bestselling books: Negotiate Like You M.A.T.T.E.R.: The SureFire Method to Step Up and Win (foreword by Robert Shapiro) and Breaking Free: A Step-by-Step Divorce Guide for Achieving Emotional, Physical, and Spiritual Freedom. Her perspectives are in high demand by television and print outlets, and she's been featured in or on Extra, Forbes, Huffington Post, Newspeak Time, Dr. Drew, NPR Talk Radio, Good Day New York and CBS Los Angeles among others. Now, based in Los Angeles, she is continuing to serve through her very popular YouTube channel, media appearances, podcasts, articles, and on-demand programs such as S-L-A-Y, S.L.A.Y. Your Negotiation With a Narcissist and Breaking Free Divorce Masterclasses. Hosts, Karen, and Catherine sit down with Rebecca Zung to discuss How to Negotiate With a Narcissist. Learn More >>https://www.rebeccazung.com/ Connect with Rebecca on LinkedIn >> @Rebecca Zung ----more---- The We Chat Divorce podcast (hereinafter referred to as the “WCD”) represents the opinions of Catherine Shanahan, Karen Chellew, and their guests to the show. WCD should not be considered professional or legal advice. The content here is for informational purposes only. Views and opinions expressed on WCD are our own and do not represent that of our places of work. WCD should not be used in any legal capacity whatsoever. Listeners should contact their attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular legal matter. No listener should act or refrain from acting on the basis of information on WCD without first seeking legal advice from counsel in the relevant jurisdiction. No guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any statements or opinions made on WCD. Unless specifically stated otherwise, Catherine Shanahan and Karen Chellew do not endorse, approve, recommend, or certify any information, product, process, service, or organization presented or mentioned on WCD, and information from this podcast should not be referenced in any way to imply such approval or endorsement. The third-party materials or content of any third-party site referenced on WCD do not necessarily reflect the opinions, standards or policies of Catherine Shanahan or Karen Chellew. WCD, CATHERINE SHANAHAN, AND KAREN CHELLEW EXPRESSLY DISCLAIM ANY AND ALL LIABILITY OR RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, OR OTHER DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF ANY INDIVIDUAL'S USE OF, REFERENCE TO, RELIANCE ON, OR INABILITY TO USE, THIS PODCAST OR THE INFORMATION PRESENTED IN THIS PODCAST ----more---- Karen: Welcome to We Chat Divorce, Catherine and I are honored today to welcome attorney Rebecca Zung to our podcast. In this episode, we're going to discuss how to negotiate with a narcissist. But first, let me take a couple of minutes to introduce Rebecca. Rebecca is a narcissism negotiation expert, and one of the top 1% of attorneys in the nation. Having been recognized by US News and World Report as the best lawyer in America, she is the author of two bestselling books. Her perspectives are in high demand by television and print outlets, and she's been featured in or on Extra, Forbes, Huffington Post, Newspeak Time, Dr. Drew, NPR Talk Radio, Good Day New York and CBS Los Angeles among others. That's amazing. Now, based in Los Angeles, she is continuing to serve through her very popular YouTube channel, media appearances, podcasts, articles, and on demand programs such as S-L-A-Y, S.L.A.Y. Your Negotiation With a Narcissist and Breaking Free Divorce Masterclasses. Welcome, Rebecca. Rebecca Zung: Thank you both. Catherine: I don't know if you're listening, if you're feeling like me that your stomach is filled with butterflies, you're either really excited to talk about this narcissistic viewpoint or you're really nervous listening to this. Either way, how did you come into focusing on negotiating with narcissists? Rebecca Zung: Well, it's like everything you've ever done prepares you for this one moment. And I feel that way with me. I had been a divorce lawyer for a long time. I did high net worth divorce in Naples, Florida, which is an affluent community. So I represented billionaires and celebrities and all that. And obviously, there was a Narcissister too in there. And so I represented narcissists. I had been on the other side of them. I have had them as opposing counsel or even judges sometimes. And I had been focusing on learning how to negotiate for a really long time. Oh, back when I first started my own practice, I was looking for a way to develop my practice and get more clients and so I developed a talk on how to negotiate period, not with narcissists, just how to negotiate. Rebecca Zung: And I gave that talk to every rotary between Tampa and Marco island, every single women's group. I mean, I've given that talk a thousand times, I've even done it as the keynote speaker for the American Bar Association. I wrote a book on negotiation. Robert Shapiro wrote the forward. So I was really thinking I was going to focus more on teaching people how to negotiate in general. I was looking for something else to do other than the day-to-day grind of practicing law. And I just thought that that was going to be my thing. Well, come to find out that I was dealing with two narcissists in my personal life. One was in my business life, in a little business that I had started with someone, which didn't go anywhere, thank God. But the person was around and in my space long enough to wreak havoc and cause lots of drama, trauma and chaos. Rebecca Zung: And then I had a family member who was a narcissist. And so somebody had pointed it out to me and recommended that I read a book on it and I was reading this book on the airplane with my husband and I was literally like, oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Every page was blowing my mind that this was what I was dealing with these two people. And so I started reading everything I could get my hands on, hundreds of books, which, behind me, you can see some of them. I mean, literally got my practical Ph.D. or whatever you want to call it, I just basically read everything I possibly could on it. And that's when I started to realize that I could actually apply my knowledge of negotiation to what I was learning about the personality of a narcissist. Rebecca Zung: And I actually started to see movement and I started to see actual things happening for people in negotiations. So that's how I came about it. I started doing it on YouTube. I now have, I don't know, close to 9 million views and close to 150,000 subscribers in just over a year, so. Catherine: That's awesome. I mean, you can imagine in divorce when an individual who may have the narcissistic traits feels like they're losing control when we empower the other spouse with some financial clarity, we see this all the time. So it's almost in every divorce case where when financial clarity is upon somebody else, there's a lot of nervousness on the other side. Why? I don't know, but I know that probably every one of our clients or almost everyone would love to follow your channel. Rebecca Zung: Yeah. They can find me, if they put in to negotiate with a narcissist, I'll be popping right up. Karen: Yeah. And I feel most, not, I guess, most people when they're entering divorce, one spouse or the other fully believes that they are divorcing a narcissist. So how did you break that down with, like you had told us before we hopped on this show that there is actually a diagnosis, but there's also tendencies and behaviors? So how does someone break that down and understand it a little bit more? I know we only have half an hour here, but can you touch on that a little bit? Rebecca Zung: Yeah. So, I mean, reasonable people want to come to a resolution. They don't want to spend lots and lots of money on lawyers. They want to be able to have peace in their lives. They want to be able to move on. Yes, they want to get an outcome that's fair, but they're interested in having a conversation on how to come to a resolution. You'll know right away if you're dealing with a narcissistic type of a person because instead of trying to figure out how to come to a resolution, they are ratcheting it up. They're filing motions all the time. They're refusing to provide financial disclosure. They are using the court system as a sword. They're lying in pleadings, they are offering settlements and then as soon as you say yes to it, they change it and they blame it on you. And it goes on and on and on. And it's like five years and $400,000 later, you're still doing this. That's when you're dealing with a narcissist. Karen: That's incredible. Catherine: So how do you equip yourself in that scenario? Rebecca Zung: Wow, that's a really big question. It seems like a simple question, but it's actually a big question because that's all part of what I teach in S.L.A.Y, which is to build strategy, create leverage, anticipate what they're going to do and be two steps ahead of them and focus on you, your case and your position. That's what S.L.A.Y stands for. And so in the program, I teach people actually how to do documentation the proper way. I mean, a lot of people say document, document document, which I agree with, but there are certain things you want to make sure you're focusing on. There's a way to organize it. There's a way to find, look for patterns and then all of that becomes your leverage so that you could potentially motivate them and incentivize them to want to come to the table. Rebecca Zung: You have to understand that narcissists are driven by one thing and that's narcissistic supply, that's it. And so settling the case doesn't give them narcissistic supply, they get supply from jerking you around and intimidating you and moving the goalposts and thinking it's a big game. So they have no incentive to want to resolve it unless you give them another incentive to want to resolve it. Catherine: Yeah. I always say whenever we do the portrait with our couples or individuals, if they come by themselves, when you know all your options and you know the components to all those options, you're able to make a compromise, but you're able to make a compromise, knowing that either position will be acceptable to you but you left the other side too, they're narcissist because they always want to win. So when you have financial clarity, you can say, I'll be okay with either of these scenarios. So you put it back in their hands and just let them pick one because you're okay with either side. Rebecca Zung: Yeah, I mean that's one way you could go about it. But if you're dealing with a really malignant narcissist, they're going to say neither. And because neither is, I mean really just because they just want to screw you. But they'll come up with some reason why neither works and, or they'll pick the parts that they like and keep those like, oh yes, I'll definitely take this, this and this, the parts that you're offering that are good for them, but the parts that you want, they don't want to do. And then they'll try to hold you to the part that you were offering, even though they didn't want it, I see Karen nodding her head. Karen: That's so true. We see that all the time. So what are some ways that people can disarm a narcissist? Rebecca Zung: Well, I think there's a couple of different ways that you have to look at it. I mean, there's a way to disarm them when you're just having a conversation with them and you're just trying to communicate with them on a day-to-day basis. And then there are ways to disarm them in the actual negotiation process too. So I think it depends on what it is that you're dealing with, but just from a communication point of view, I think there's a number of different ways. All of them require though that you learn how to at least control your emotions while you're in that interaction. So that's why it's really important to either be super brief or have strong boundaries. And then when you are interacting with them, you are not taking the bait because they constantly are trying to trigger you. They want you to say something or do something that they can turn around and use against you. As soon as you say, oh, whatever, like there you go, there's a potential trial exhibit for them. Rebecca Zung: So you got to be really careful about how you respond and so I advise people to be very brief in their interactions. And so like you can have a tactical response to an email, for example, like if there's a really long email about what a deadbeat you are, and you're a horrible person and whatever it is that their diatribe of the day. And there's maybe one line in there that you actually need to respond to, like about what time to pick up the kids or something like that. You can just say, "Thank you for your email. I am in responsive it. I deny your allegations and you can pick up Susie at three o'clock on Wednesday." So you've denied it, you don't need to go point by point, are you kidding me, I'm a wonderful mother, I'm this, that, and the other thing. Never try to justify, explain, or overshare, just, "I've received this, I deny it. Here's the only thing I need to respond to." And that can be so empowering when you know that you don't need to respond to every single thing. Catherine: So true. And it's so important to try it for the first time. It's really difficult if you're trained in a long-term relationship and you're so used to that type of toxic interaction, to actually do that the first time is empowering, but it's scary. So if you're out there and you're listening, it is scary, but do it, less is more in a lot of these situations and you will feel really good about that because they won't know how to respond to you. Karen: I agree. That's great. So take that same communication style and if you're in person or you're with them, and you're having to talk to them on the phone or the exchange of the children or whatever, what can you do to disarm in a live setting? Some tips, obviously there's probably a million. Rebecca Zung: Yeah, in my course, I have 50 key phrases to destroy a narcissist. But you just remember wherever you can almost become an observer, almost like you're reporting the news. Like, I can see that you are upset or you are entitled to that opinion. I'm sorry that that is your opinion or I'm sorry that that's how you feel or something like that. I mean, you can even use words like I agree, even though... There's a trick that I tell people to use, which is, I agree that that is your opinion, so you're agreeing with them and they hear, I agree, but you're not saying anything really. I hear what you're saying and that's it. And it's almost like there's this invisible shield where you're not getting emotional. Rebecca Zung: So one of the other things I tell people to do is maybe sometimes if you know you're going to have a conversation set an agenda ahead of time. Like we will talk, and this is what we will talk about. We're not talking about this, this and this, we're going to talk about that. And maybe figure out a way to get in and out of that conversation, by setting a time limit ahead of time or saying, you have to leave for work or you have to go take a shower or whatever. Whatever you need to do to feel like you're in control of that conversation ahead of time that just psychologically can help too. Catherine: Yeah. And writing things down and having it right in front of you is also very comforting because you can always resort back to reading it off your paper, and learning to walk away, walk away when you have to. So that's really big too, again, another scary thing to do. Karen: But it sounds like what you do in your courses and in your teachings is empowering them with boundaries so that they can just start to enclose themselves in a safe place of sorts when they're engaging with a narcissist who doesn't have their best interests at heart. Rebecca Zung: Yeah. I mean, that's just part of the whole strategy for communication. I mean, I also teach how to do the research, create the strategy, figure out your diagnosis, your guiding vision, your guiding policy, your action plan, all of that, but around the communication piece of it, for sure. I mean, it's all about reducing your exposure to that toxicity because they work on your neuronal patterns, on your brainwaves and things. And so it's almost like deprogramming yourself in order to try to heal from it. And so getting out of that is so important because if you get sucked back in, it almost slides you back as far as you're healing from that trauma. Catherine: Yeah. And it doesn't happen overnight. When you walk away, like you just said, you have to retrain your own mind. I mean, I'm talking personally here now. So when you walk out of that situation, a lot of times people who do not heal, end up in another relationship with someone similar to that same pattern. It took me two and a half years to get through my process of healing. And thankfully I met my current husband after that time period, but it really is that you're so easily triggered to go back to a pattern. So you really need to give yourself that time and that process, allow that process. Rebecca Zung: Yeah, and I do want to mention that part of the reason why you become so trauma bonded to them is because of that cycle of love bombing, devaluing, and discarding, they throw in those strategically placed love bombs and every time they do that, you get a dopamine hit in your brain. There's actually a study with, Robert Sapolsky had done a study on monkeys. And if you gave them a treat every single time, their dopamine levels in their brains did nothing, but intermittently giving them a treat or a reward, just the anticipation of getting it had the dopamine levels in their brain rise to a level of cocaine. And so actually, you become physiologically addicted to this person because of that, it's way more toxic than somebody who's just toxic all the time. Catherine: That's so interesting. Karen: It's incredible. So tell me this, are people born with narcissistic behavior or is it a learned trait? Rebecca Zung: I do say I'm not a psychologist, but from what I read and what I have studied and learned, and I've interviewed a bunch of psychologists, my understanding is that they are not born that way, that they are created. And so it's nurture, not nature, that it happens at some point during their formation as a child where they came to a conclusion that the world is a scary place, that they're not good enough, that they have to be in survival at all times in order to live. And so they psychologically live there and I think it's very subconscious, but it's either that they were traumatized in some way as a child, or I've also heard that extreme overindulgence can cause it as well because children actually want boundaries. They want their parents to care. And by extremely overindulging them, they don't feel like they were worth anything. So I think it's both. Catherine: Yeah. So I hope my kids are glad that I was so strict. Rebecca Zung: Mine too. Catherine: Well, I have a curious question, have you gone up against other attorneys for a case that are narcissists and how did you handle that? Rebecca Zung: Part of the reason I'm glad I don't practice on a full-on basis anymore because I couldn't stand them. I mean, there are certain opposing counsel that I would have to tell my clients, well, they hired so-and-so, so it's going to be twice as expensive because she's going to fight every single thing. There are certain ones that I just could not stand because of that. Yeah. Karen: Yeah. And it's to the client and the family's detriment, it's to everyone's detriment. Rebecca Zung: Yeah. But I have to say, I always, half-jokingly, but not really jokingly, that people are like dogs and their dog owners, they always seem to find the lawyer that's just like them. Karen: Wow. Catherine: Yeah. That's so true. Or they find one that's like their partner, because they're actually, like you said, addicted to that type of personality. So they almost feel like that person will put up with their spouse, so they're being bullied. I mean, I see clients being bullied by their own attorney, it's because it's the relationship they had with their spouse. So they're used to that. They don't see it being wrong. Yeah. It's unfortunate, but that is the way it is. Yeah. It's so interesting. It's really very interesting. Karen: So on that note, can you really get a narcissist to negotiate successfully? Rebecca Zung: I've had done it many thousands of times actually. And they're actually the simplest people to understand. I mean, they're heinous to deal with, but they're actually very easy to understand. I mean, they're only motivated and incentivized by one thing, and that's narcissistic supply. Regular people are motivated by lots of different things, it might be time with your children or it might be a flexible schedule or whatever, but with them, it's not, it's always that one thing, that's the thing they keep coming back to. And then just understanding that there's a hierarchy of narcissistic supply. So there's like, their diamond level grade A, source of supply, which is their image and how they look and the outside looking in like, what are people thinking of them. And especially people that they respect. Rebecca Zung: So in the court system, it will be definitely the judge or the lawyers or maybe the mediator or something like that. They want to make sure that they look good and the other person looks like the bad one. And with narcissists, it's all black and white, you're either for them or against them, or you're either the best or you're the worst. And so that's the grade eight A, level. And then the Core level, which I call Core level, which is like the... It burns and it gives them energy, but it's not as good as the diamond level. And that is like jerking you around, degrading you, devaluing you, making you squirm, scaring you, all those sorts of things. They get supply from that as well. So the key is to create a leverage situation that ethically manipulates the manipulator by threatening a source of narcissistic supply that means more to them to keep than the supply that they get from jerking you around. Karen: Wow. Catherine: Love that. That's so good. Yeah. Well, we apply that to our financial portrait, giving people the courage to request the information and to understand the information financially, really empowers them to stand stronger and let their attorneys that they have to do their job of being aggressive, because they're understanding what their rights are. And they're understanding what the financial outcome will be. And nobody expects somebody who's married to a narcissist to have that courage or to be able to state what they want, because they don't understand financially what they've ever had. So I love applying all of that to the financial clarity that everybody needs before they get divorced. Rebecca Zung: Totally. Karen: So another question that we have here is what kind of tricks do they play and how can you identify a trick that a narcissist would like to pull on someone else or on your spouse or on you during a divorce? Rebecca Zung: During the divorce? Karen: Yeah. Rebecca Zung: Yeah. They manipulate text messages, they lie about things, even things that are readily verifiable and even things that are things they don't necessarily need to lie about, but they just do because that's just their way of being. So I had a case where the wife, who I think is more than just a narcissist, I think she might've had borderline or some other issues. But in the middle of the night, one o'clock in the morning, she gets into this fight with her 15-year-old son. She throws him out of the house with all of his stuff. It was 30° outside. It was in the Northeast part of the country in winter. And so the kid calls his dad and says, come get me. I'm outside on the curb with all my stuff. Dad goes over there in the middle of the night, gets him, brings him back to the house. The next morning gets an email from the mother saying, this is probably for the best you should call the bus and let them know to pick them up over there by you for a while. So he does that. Rebecca Zung: And a couple of weeks later, she files a motion in court, sworn testimony saying that he kidnapped the child, refuses to return the child and it's just like a flat-out lie. And she even sent an email saying, we'll change the bus. I mean, but that's the kind of thing that they do. And it's maddening because it costs you money. Karen: Yeah. And anybody can make a claim about anything and you have to defend that in court if that's where it's taken up. And I think a lot of people don't understand that, but at the end of the day, that's your only choice is defending that claim. That's incredible. Catherine: Well, it's terrible too, because the child's sitting there saying what the hell's going on here. And so they're growing up realizing, how am I dealing with this? Who am I dealing with? And it's unfortunate. Rebecca Zung: Horrible, because then a lot of times, those are the parents that refuse to allow counseling for the child, too. Catherine: Exactly. We talk about that a lot with even custodian plans, 529 plans, you might have that spouse who's the custodian on that account, so years later they're using that account to manipulate your child. So it wasn't talked about before, because it was never identified that they had this trait. So it's something that people should consider, who's going to be the custodian if something like that happens because now the kid again is being manipulated instead of the spouse because the spouse is no longer married to them. Rebecca Zung: Yeah. It's tough. Catherine: Yeah. It's a hard thing. Karen: Yeah. So it sounds like your programs really take people through the breadth and width of understanding it, identifying and responding to it. So where can people learn more about your programs and what they offer? Rebecca Zung: Well, I have a free gift for everyone and they can get a free, crush my negotiation prep worksheet, which is 15 pages. It's basically an ebook. It's actually a really nice free gift and they can get that at winmynegotiation.com. So I made a nice, easy URL so people can remember, winmynegotiation.com. And so I would start there definitely check out my YouTube channel, totally free obviously as well. Rebecca Zung ESQ is the, it's youtube.com/rebeccazungesq or just put in negotiating with a narcissist, you'll find me right there for sure. Catherine: Yes, for sure. That's awesome. Rebecca Zung: Yeah. And Instagram is Rebecca Zung. My books, whatever. I mean, I would start with the YouTube channel as well as the free worksheet. Karen: That's fantastic. That's really great. I had something I was going to say, and it went right out of my head. Oh, I know what I was going to say. All of this will be in the show notes below the podcast. So don't feel like you have to remember that, we'll have that all laid out when we're promoting so that you can easily click through, to learn more about Rebecca's programs. So this concludes our episode on negotiating or communicating with a narcissist. Thank you so much, Rebecca, for being with us today and having this great conversation. Rebecca Zung: Thank you for having me. Catherine: Yeah. Thank you. It's been great.
This week we speak to Karen Julia, Wedding Photographer & SEO Consultant, about all things image optimisation. Featured Resource: https://photoseolab.com/image-seo/ Where to find Karen: Website: https://photoseolab.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karen-julia/ --- Episode Sponsor Massive shout out to NOVOS for sponsoring the full second season of WTSPodcast. NOVOS, the London-based eCommerce SEO agency, has won multiple awards for their SEO campaigns including Best Global SEO Agency of The Year 2 years running. Trusted by over 150 global eCommerce brands including the likes of Bloom & Wild, Patch and Thread, NOVOS provides technical eCommerce SEO expertise with a creative edge by specialising across platforms like Shopify & Magento. They have been named as one of 2021's best workplaces in the UK and with a diverse, gender-balanced team are a culture-first agency. Where to find Novos: Website - https://thisisnovos.com/ LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/thisisnovos Twitter - https://twitter.com/thisisnovos Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thisisnovos/ --- Episode Transcript: Areej: Hey everyone! Welcome to a new episode of the Women in Tech SEO episode. I'm Areej and I'm the founder of Women in Tech SEO. And today joining me is the brilliant Karen Julia, wedding photographer and SEO consultant. Hey Karen! Karen: It's great to be here. --- This season is sponsored by NOVOS. NOVOS, the London-based eCommerce SEO agency, has won multiple awards for their SEO campaigns including Best Global SEO Agency of The Year 2 years running. Trusted by over 150 global eCommerce brands including the likes of Bloom & Wild, Patch and Thread, NOVOS provides technical eCommerce SEO expertise with a creative edge by specialising across platforms like Shopify & Magento. They have been named as one of 2021's best workplaces in the UK and with a diverse, gender-balanced team are a culture-first agency. Check them out on thisisnovos.com or follow on Linkedin @thisisnovos --- Areej: I'm so excited to have you on board. And I love that. I think from the very first time we ever spoke, I remember you telling me all about how you're a wedding photographer. Introduce yourself to everyone and let us know what you do in your world. Karen: Awesome. Well, I'm a wedding photographer, as you've mentioned, and I'm also an SEO consultant as well. The approach I have with SEO is to really kind of coach and empower and educate clients. So it's a little bit of a kind of random way that I got into this. I didn't really set out. Intending to do SEO, but I phoned from my own business. I wanted to be phoned more by the right client and Google, as we know, as a fantastic matchmaker. So I started learning SEO back in 2007 and got my website ranking really well, and then went through all the trials and tribulations like Panda and penguin and Got banned from Google at one point. And it was purely accidental. It was not intended to be not. But I realized then that you can't really do SEO kind of half-heartedly, you know, it's kind of all or nothing because there's so many kinds of updates and changes and it's a constantly evolving kind of space really. So I realized that I needed to improve my lack of resources as well in terms of where I was getting trusted information from. And that's when I started helping people in the community, the photography community that I'm in. Areej: Do you help other wedding photographers optimize their websites? Karen: I do. I have a client base of photographers around the world from the U S I've worked with clients and New Zealand, Australia, kind of, I'm thinking there's a couple of different African countries as well. Europe. So I have an international client base and really the niche that I specialize in is wedding photography specifically. Yep. Areej: And how do you currently split your time between the SEO consultancy and the wedding...
Karen: I would say look for the positive in your life and as you're looking for the positive reach out and grab a hand for support because we can do this together. Automated: Hello and welcome to the Beat Cancer Answer brought to you by beatcancer.org the center for advancement in cancer education. Carl: Hello this is Carl Wagner with Beat Cancer and I have here one of our wonderful coaches Karen Holmes and I'm going to let her talk to you about her journey with cancer and how she got to come to us and become a cancer coach. With that, Karen Holmes. Karen: Hi, thank you, Carl It's wonderful to be here. Carl: Welcome. Karen: I mean that with a full heart and gratitude because being alive and being vital and full of energy is the message that I want to convey to all of the people who are experiencing cancer or who have experienced cancer as I did. It's a journey and it's a wonderful time in my life, to be able to come back and to coach other people during their cancer journey as they heal and recover from cancer. I came to being a cancer coach after I experienced inflammatory breast cancer, and that was back in 2011. I've been on this recovery journey for a long time, I feel very happy that I'm here and the journey that I have been on started when I found out that I had obviously breast cancer. I was told that I was going to get chemotherapy, I was going to have surgery, and I was going to have radiation. And all of that seemed rather intimidating, and I did go through all of that. But during that time period, I did a lot of research. I did a lot of reading about the other holistic practices that would be helpful, that would support me through my cancer recovery. And for me, those were the most important steps that I could take. That I could be my own cancer advocate. Although, I didn't know anything about cancer coaches at the time and so I developed some of the strategies that I've learned and I've read about in the beat cancer dot org program. And so, that all comes around when I finished my medical treatments, and I'll say that they cured me, and that's in my story. That I became this...okay you're done with all the treatments, you're done with the radiation fine we'll see you in six months. Then it was now, what do I do? That now what do I do, came to me as dance. I knew that food and movement were the best solutions to getting my vitality back. So, I'll say that dance brought me back to life, and that's where my recovery journey really begins because I knew that I had to change my lifestyle. I knew that I wanted to become somebody who was alive and vibrant and not just somebody who was sitting around wondering what to do next. For me, the dance enlightened my life in fact, I tell people I retired from my job and I flew to Maui and I danced. And that's true, and I came home from Maui and I didn't go back to work. I didn't go back to the career that I'd had for 32 years. Instead, I began this journey of finding out what I wanted to do next and how I could support particularly other women in their breast cancer journey and that's where my focus is. And so, I became a dance teacher facilitator. I facilitate something called Azul, which is a conscious movement dance. now you're going to ask me, what is Azul? Carl: What is Azul? Karen: Conscious dance is really awakening one's heart and awakening what's inside of you. Through the dance, I was able to embody all of the feelings that Ii was going through. It's somewhat, and I've talked to other women they agree. It's somewhat like PTSD, only for cancer patients, where you figure out that wow, I've gone through all my treatments, I'm supposed to be okay and now I realize what I've gone through and what I need to do to change. Concurrently, I changed my eating habits and I did a lot of internal work to figure out where my path was going to go. That path led me to cancer coaching and that's where I am today. To really believe in the support for other women. I want to be able to support other women in their recovery. I think it's really important to make that connection one-on-one. That's what really keeps us alive, that's what motivates us, inspires us to become all that we can be. That once we've gone through this cancer treatment, we have the opportunity to change our lives. I tell people breast cancer was the worst thing and the best thing that ever happened to me. It was the worst thing because I don't wish it on anybody. It's not a pleasant journey, it can be full of suffering and angst. And yet, what it gave me was gratitude for my life. It gave me the opportunity to change, reach out to people, to become somebody alive, somebody who can dance her way into freedom of all possibilities and ways of being. Before I logged on to do this interview, I danced for an hour. It gave me that insight as to where I wanted to go and what I wanted to say. That's where I am today. Here I am as a cancer coach. I've spent the past few months clarifying my vision. When I was going through my cancer treatments, they say have a positive vision, so my positive vision at the time was running down the coast of the Pacific Ocean. I was having a new little grandson at the time and with my hair in a ponytail so my hair would be grown and so that was the vision. The vision that I have created now, is one of a three-part vision that I created in something called pillars of healing and that's become my offering to breast cancer and cancer patients, and women who are recovering from cancer. So, in the pillars of healing, I offer three opportunities and the first one is a one-on-one cancer coach. Call me up, text me, send me an email, and I will do a free discovery call with you that we can see what it is you as an individual need. I think of you as my...I have created Lily; I have a blog on my website that lily is the person that I like to talk to. And for her I say, I offer you that one-on-one individual assistance, guidance, I will listen and we can move forward together complementing whatever medical treatment you prefer to take. So, that's the one-on-one coaching. The other two other pieces...and the second pillar is really the dance, and offering dance classes and opportunities for women experiencing cancer. The kind of dance that I do, which is Azul, is very freeing. It can be done by anybody and I say anybody regardless of one's physical attributes, because it's something that you bring from inside. Azul is not something that you're going to have choreographed steps. It's I play music and I facilitate and you move your body to whatever comes up. You listen to your body and say oh I'm going to allow this particular movement or something comes up and you'll say I understand where I'm going now. So, that movement which I believe is critical to our healthy well-being, it really is. If you had to ask me what are the three things that would be movement and what we put in our bodies, food, and some kind of connection with...that I want to say spiritual or guidance through meditation or whatever you choose to take. That those are the three big things that are going to heal us. And that leads me to the third pillar. The third pillar is one where I am available to do presentations in person at some point or online for people on A how to prevent cancer or what are some of the things that you can do if you are experiencing cancer or somebody you know and love. Because I believe that all of us have known someone who has had a cancer journey. So those are the three pillars. The one-on-one consultation. the dancing opportunities through Azul and the third one is I am available to give presentations to your organization, to your group, to your meeting, it can be a short one, it can be a fairly lengthy one, and it's really geared to what the organization or your group needs and wants. On my website which is pillars of healing dot org, I give a list of five things but I'm very happy to tailor any kind of presentation using the things that I believe are truly needed and wanted and beneficial to people who experience cancer. So, that in short, is really what pillars of healing are all about. Carl: Well there's a lot to unpack there, but I want to say congratulations first of all for sharing your journey and also getting through from what I was reading a 45 chance of healing and basically going through all the big three, the surgery, the chemotherapy, and radiation and going through all the hardships that go along with that losing your hair and just a fear to finding your life purpose and sharing with others I think it's wonderful. Thank you so much for all of that. I always laughed when you talked about the Azul being something anybody could do because when I dance and I'm expressing myself you better stand back a little bit because you might get knocked over by accident. I'm not a good dancer so I was just trying to imagine that but that's wonderful. So, how long have you been a coach now? Karen: It's coming up on a year. Carl: Wow, terrific. Karen: It's coming up on a year, I do believe that the coach in me stems from...I was in education and had a really nice career and I am very available to listen to people. So, the coaching just falls into line with what I have done for a very long time and being able to help people from where they are to what they want to become and that's in essence what a coach does. Carl: Yeah, so it's a natural progression for you and you have such a soothing voice, I have told you. I think even if people talk to you on the phone and didn't see you or could be an interactive person, I think just that calming voice and like you said I'm here to talk to and to listen. I think a lot of people are missing that, they don't get that in the traditional medical treatment. If they're going through traditional medical treatment, I think it's really great to take on a coach. Somebody who's there to listen to you and guide you, that's wonderful. Karen: I think it's really important when I'm coaching or anybody is coaching, to listen to what the person who's going through the experience wants to do like. I became my own advocate because I studied and I read a lot and I looked at the research and if somebody had been there to guide me, and tell me that there was research and give me the information I would have been able to move forward may be faster and a little deeper. I truly believe that there's a lot of information out there, and a lot of research that's been done and I have to say...repeat myself, that I think it's the food piece is really important. I changed the way I ate, I began to dance, I began to look forward to life and if we look at the research what it shows us, is the people who are the survivors, or the people who move forward, are the ones who say okay I have cancer and I'm still going to be alive and well and full of energy. It's that vitality...when I was going through my treatments, a dear friend said to me. She said, somebody, has to be on the winning side and I think that's you and so I had to believe that too. And that hope and inspiration that I can give to other people is so important because I've been through...that I've walked those steps and I know that on a daily basis it's not easy. But yet, there's hope. There's hope at the end as we graduate from the medical treatment. That we don't graduate from a way of life. What I clearly see with the holistic practices, is that there is good healthy living for anybody, for everybody, that's what I believe gives us that push to become more of who we can be. Carl: And you're a wonderful role model for people that have been through it and have this great fear of recurrence. That's a big deal, people like you said, what do I do now? Now that my medical treatment is done, they just pushed me out of the nest, so to speak and now you have to fly and you don't know what to do exactly, sorry I didn't mean to cut you off. Karen: No, that's okay, because I was thinking of the word that you use, recurrence, and I hear that a lot. I'm fearful of recurrence and these steps that we can take as individuals and as a group, to ward off that recurrence, I think are important and in your cancer journey just making it through those treatments but then setting up a lifestyle that will tell those little cancer cells not to come back. We have them floating around in our body but we don't need them to reoccur, and that's the lifestyle, that's the coaching that we can do on an ongoing basis. Whether we're one year, two years, 10 years, 20 years, out from our treatment. That our lifestyle changes and our view of life become more positive, that we can be filled with gratitude on a daily basis and that becomes the message that I really hope that people will take. Carl: Yeah, a change of lifestyle is so important and some people don't change. You're a wonderful role model of how you can go from one life and go through cancer and make your cancer mean something. Take it to the next level and show people yes, you can completely change your life. Maybe this new life will be a better life than the old life, but sometimes that wake-up call is all you need. Karen: It can and you can create that better life you and I and other people have that, I want to say opportunity, to create a better life and I'm here to help other people do that. That's my function as a coach. It can be just a tiny thing because if you're on a street corner and you take just one step to the left or one step to the right it can change your path. So, we start out with tiny steps that are very doable in your life, in my life that's what happened. And from that, you can make other changes and you see the possibilities. You see how it can change you, you can also see the benefits of some of these changes. Carl: Yeah, well some of the benefits you...I hate to say you can't see because it's like a prevention measure, you're talking about preventing. When you eat better, some people just don't see it but they don't realize how eating in a bad way is negatively impacting their life. And two, with the movement, the dance people don't realize how critical that is. I worked with a cancer patient or a former cancer patient when he had some lymph nodes taken out and it was vital for him to do things with his arms which he wouldn't normally do to get the juices flowing because of the lymph nodes. so yeah Karen: I think many women particularly those who've had breast cancer are fearful of the lymphedema that can occur. There is so much that one can do to contain the lymphedema that it is not just putting on a sleeve. And there's so much you can do with movement, with the massaging, with some of the other things that are recommended. Those are the little touches, the little changes that really can change your life. I had to smile about the eating piece because for me, when I changed the way I ate, I could feel the difference. I could feel...I also have to say I lost 50 pounds. Carl: Congratulations. Karen: So, that was a big deal. That was huge. And when I looked at what I was eating, I could see why cancer had a field day. So, little by little I changed it. It didn't happen overnight, because it's hard to change what you eat but I did it and I would be delighted to help somebody else do the same thing. And you have to see where it is that you or your client wants to move. Some people are very happy with what they eat and some people are very willing to change little by little. You don't do it overnight as I said but there are small changes. As for the dance, I dance because I love to dance. I also know that anybody can dance and most people like music. So, you can move to the music in any way. I also want to state that it's very important to find the movement that your body enjoys. If you don't enjoy running or you don't enjoy yoga, if you don't enjoy lifting weights, chances are you're not going to do it over the long term and that's what we're looking at. I think it's important to discover what the rhythm of your body responds to. Whether it's a walk outside. Whether it's on an elliptical in a gym and some of the gyms are open and closed right now. Whether it's bike riding with your son or daughter or a partner. Those are the kinds of things that we can discover, will resonate with your body. I go back to the lymphedema piece. One of the things that I learned in my recovery was that I was very careful to build my arm to a state where it had the muscle tone. Where it had the ability to have full range of motion and the lymphedema, I was really careful with but I got that arm so that it is today as strong as it can be today, and that's very important. so that's something to work with, with a lot of people. Carl: Thank you so much, I appreciate that. People don't realize what someone goes through when you say breast cancer. They don't think anything's happening to their arms. So, the eating part...certainly people can feel that benefit by just internalizing the fact that they're changing their internal terrain and making their body an inhospitable environment for cancer to thrive. When they eat the wrong way, they make their bodies a place where cancer likes to live. And I like what you said about doing something that people do for a long haul. It's like you said, it's a lifestyle or making...that's so impactful and I hope people get that message, that it's the long haul. You have covered most of my questions but I do want to ask, when you're taking the course, was there something that stood out for you or you learned that you didn't really know before? Something that really added to your program? Karen: When I did the beat cancer program, I found first of all that is synthesized and brought together a lot of the information that I had picked up along the way. And so, it is put in one place, I want to say an encyclopedia, a compilation of the practices in which I believe. And to add to that, it was backed up by research and that's very important to show that there is definite research that there is scientific evidence for these holistic practices. Because when you talk to people, they go oh that's just what somebody's saying and that's really not true. What we're saying is these practices have developed out of research, out of scientific data, that shows how we can prevent cancer and how we can work with our cancer recovery and that it's not simply what somebody is putting forth in what they think. But we know that it helps us to see that it's helped people in all different countries and a variety of different cancers, in different stages of the cancer. So that research piece really was important for me. Carl: Yeah, people don't realize that. Susan was doing that for 35 years. This is before she ever made a course out of it, so it's not only the science that she researched but it was put into practice for 35 years of helping people. Oh, I did notice that you said the pillars of healing dot org, is that a non-profit? Karen: No, well it probably will be a non-profit and so I had a choice of what I was going to name this. I was advised that I could use the dot org and rather than the dot com so that's where it is. Carl: Okay, yeah. Whenever I see a dot org, I think right away non-profit. Karen: Well I will be working with people to build, what I want to say a business, but a business that really goes back into some of the cancer research, some of the cancer organizations that I believe are doing great work. Carl: Good for you. Well, look at that, a whole new you. Who knew? Karen: It's great, well you ask for like that a one-word aha moment, I think it's gratitude, I think it's vitality, I think it's inspiration, and that's for me moving toward a healthy life for cancer clients, cancer...I want to say people who have experienced cancer, because it's not just people who are going through treatment now, but who have in the past and want to make their lives better. If they've stopped treatments and now wondering what they're going to do, how can I have a good life without a recurrence? That's also important. Carl: Live in victory and not fear. Karen: That's so important, isn't it? That you live in a positive world and sometimes that's difficult to do. Carl: Especially if you don't have anybody telling you there's another way. So many people their family members just push them towards the doctors and when the doctors are done with them, they push them back. And they don't have anybody like you to say they look, there's a different type of life. Karen: Or they revert back to what they've been doing before they got the cancer. Worst case scenario, if we revert back to that state, chances are it would recur. So, we move forward, we move towards that better lifestyle, that healthier lifestyle. Carl: Okay so I'm going to sum it up here because I think you did a great job of covering everything. So, just a one bonus question, if there is one tip that you could give and then you gave some great golden nuggets all throughout, I mean I could pull out five or six different things I can make sound bites out of. But if you had one tip, what would that be? Karen: I'm talking to your lily; you are part of my blog and I do tips for Lilly and letters to lily. lily I would say look for the positive in your life and as you're looking for the positive reach out, reach out and grab a hand for support because we can do this together. Carl: Good one. Well, thank you so much. Is there anything else you would like to add? Karen: Check out pillarsofhealing.org and my email is on there and my phone numbers on there. I'm really good about answering emails and would love to connect with you and do a discovery call and see where we can get together...what makes sense for the two of us to work through a cancer journey together. Carl: I'm glad you mentioned that. I'll put the links in the show notes for YouTube, but some people listen on podcast and it's great to mention that verbally, thank you. All right, thank you so much for your time. Karen: Thank you for this opportunity. I really appreciate what Beat Cancer is doing and has done for me and other cancer coaches. I think it's really important that it become and stay a vital organization in the community. Carl: It's a blessing for me to meet the coaches. I had a great time meeting you and again you are going to be a rock star with that soothing voice and positive attitude and being such a good role model, and I think that's great. Karen: Thank you. Carl: You're welcome. Karen: I've been looking forward to this for quite a while. Car Wagner: Yeah, sorry about the delay COVID-19 really just threw a monkey ranch in. Karen: Well, to you and everybody else. But it gave me an opportunity to clarify what I wanted to do so it was good for all of us. Automated: If we helped you learn just one thing today about how to prevent cope with or be cancer, then we have succeeded in our mission. Please remember to like, subscribe and comment. We appreciate all of your feedback and love your suggestions. your positive ratings help us to get discovered so we can help save more lives. Thank you again for joining us and best wishes for good health from all of us at beatcancer.org.
Karen Semone is a senior director of innovation at Salesforce. To offer your own advice, call Zak @ 844-935-BEST TRANSCRIPT: ZAK: Warning, today's episode might put you to sleep. But if it does, that's a good thing. Here is Karen Semone's advice for falling asleep easier and dreaming better. KAREN: You basically think of a place that you loved as a child. For me it's my grandma's house. And you take a visualized tour of that house. It's not about the people in the house. It's about the place. But it's very much a sensory experience. So you really feel what the handle of the door feels like. You smell. You visualize the smell. You try to remember details of where the photos are on the photo wall, where her art was. And you walk through the rooms. And more often than not, by the time I've gone through the whole house, I'm asleep which is awesome. You enter through the garage and she has this very old-school screen door and I think it is a form of meditation because you have to be really methodical and sort of, slow. Sometimes I like to pretend like I can smell her famous pecan sticky buns that she would always make in the morning. ZAK: Is it always your grandma's house that you do? KAREN: It's funny. I change it up but it usually tends to be places I visited in summertimes as children. So I have a couple of cottages that I did or my aunt's house where she had a pool. And I think that might just be because it's light-hearted memories. Like, positive associations. And I tend to have nicer dreams since I started doing it. My name is Karen Semone. I am a senior director of innovation at Salesforce.
02:31 - Karen’s Superpower: The Ability to Simplify Things * Simplifying in a Team Context 05:55 - Better Allies (https://betterallies.com/) – Everyday Actions to Create Inclusive, Engaging Workplaces; Triaging and Curating Research * @BetterAllies (https://twitter.com/betterallies) * Better Allies: Everyday Actions to Create Inclusive, Engaging Workplaces (https://www.amazon.com/Better-Allies-Everyday-Inclusive-Workplaces/dp/1732723303) (Book) * The Better Allies™ Approach to Hiring (https://www.amazon.com/Better-Allies-Approach-Hiring-ebook/dp/B082WR7F86) (Book) * Present! A Techie's Guide to Public Speaking (https://www.amazon.com/Present-Techies-Guide-Public-Speaking-ebook/dp/B01BCXHULK) (Book) 14:15 - Maintaining Anonyminity (at first); Prove It Again Bias (https://genderbiasbingo.com/prove-it-again/) * Channeling White Men; Men Listening to Other Men * Whistling Vivaldi: How Stereotypes Affect Us and What We Can Do (https://www.amazon.com/Whistling-Vivaldi-Stereotypes-Affect-Issues/dp/0393339726) (Book) * [Podcast] 'Whistling Vivaldi' And Beating Stereotypes (https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125859207) * Reduce the influence of unconscious bias with these re:Work tools (https://rework.withgoogle.com/blog/fight-unconscious-bias-with-rework-tools/) * Build the Culture Instead of Fit the Culture 26:09 - Culture Add + Values Fit * Recognizing Bias Instead of Removing It * Meritocracy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritocracy) 32:11 - Network Effect: Venturing Beyond Homogenous (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/homogenous) Networks * Marginalization + Privilege Can Be Self-Reinforcing * 50 Potential Privileges in the Workplace (https://betterallies.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/50-potential-privileges.pdf) 41:58 - Doing This Work is Everyone’s Job 48:12 - People to Follow * Minda Harts (https://twitter.com/MindaHarts) * The Memo: What Women of Color Need to Know to Secure a Seat at the Table (https://bookshop.org/books/the-memo-what-women-of-color-need-to-know-to-secure-a-seat-at-the-table/9781580058469) * Jeannie Gainsburg (https://www.savvyallyaction.com/about) * The Savvy Ally: A Guide for Becoming a Skilled LGBTQ+ Advocate (https://www.amazon.com/Savvy-Ally-JEANNIE-GAINSBURG/dp/1538136775/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=savvy+ally&qid=1608561617&sr=8-3) * David Smith (https://twitter.com/davidgsmithphd) & Brad Johnston * Good Guys: How Men Can Be Better Allies for Women in the Workplace (https://www.amazon.com/Good-Guys-Better-Allies-Workplace-ebook/dp/B08412XCHB/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=good+guys&qid=1614095097&sr=8-3) * Corey Ponder (https://www.coreyponder.com/about-me) * Learning the ABCs of Allyship (https://www.coreyponder.com/single-post/abcs-of-allyship) 51:13 - The Decline of Gender Parity in the Tech Industry * Women in Tech -- The Missing Force: Karen Catlin at TEDxCollegeofWilliam&Mary (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uiEHaDSfgI) 58:15 - Making Statements and Changing the Status Quo Reflections: Rein: Getting better at praxis: for every white dude with a beard you follow on Twitter, go follow 10 Black women in tech. Damien: How bias can interfere with an action right before the action happens. Chanté: We’re all allies. We cannot do this work alone. Today you might be the ally, tomorrow you may be the bridge. Arty: Expanding our homogenous networks. Change takes courage on all of our parts. Karen: Turning period statements into questions or adding “until now” to those statements. This episode was brought to you by @therubyrep (https://twitter.com/therubyrep) of DevReps, LLC (http://www.devreps.com/). To pledge your support and to join our awesome Slack community, visit patreon.com/greaterthancode (https://www.patreon.com/greaterthancode) To make a one-time donation so that we can continue to bring you more content and transcripts like this, please do so at paypal.me/devreps (https://www.paypal.me/devreps). You will also get an invitation to our Slack community this way as well. Transcript: PRE-ROLL: Whether you're working on a personal project or managing enterprise infrastructure, you deserve simple, affordable, and accessible cloud computing solutions that allow you to take your project to the next level. Simplify your cloud infrastructure with Linode's Linux virtual machines and develop, deploy, and scale your modern applications faster and easier. Get started on Linode today with $100 in free credit for listeners of Greater Than Code. You can find all the details at linode.com/greaterthancode. Linode has 11 global data centers and provides 24/7/365 human support with no tiers or hand-offs regardless of your plan size. In addition to shared and dedicated compute instances, you can use your $100 in credit on S3-compatible object storage, Managed Kubernetes, and more. Visit linode.com/greaterthancode and click on the "Create Free Account" button to get started. REIN: Welcome to Episode 224 of Greater Than Code. Take two. So full disclosure, we recorded this or more specifically, didn't record this conversation so we're going to do it again. I'm your co-host, Rein Hendricks, and I'm here with my co-host, Damien Burke. DAMIEN: Thanks, Rein. And I'm here with my co-host, Chanté Thurmond. CHANTÉ: Everyone, Chanté here. And I'm here with Arty Starr. ARTY: Thank you, Chanté. And I'm here with our awesome guest today, Karen Catlin. So after spending 25 years building software products and serving as a vice-president of engineering at Macromedia and Adobe, Karen Catlin witnessed a sharp decline in the number of women working in tech. Frustrated but galvanized, she knew it was time to switch gears. Today, Karen is a leadership coach and a highly acclaimed author and speaker on inclusive workplaces. She is the author of three books: "Better Allies: Everyday Actions to Create Inclusive, Engaging Workplaces," "The Better Allies™ Approach to Hiring,” and "Present! A Techie's Guide to Public Speaking." Welcome, Karen to the show! KAREN: And it is a pleasure to be back with you and to be having this conversation today. Thanks so much for having me. ARTY: And we very much appreciate you being here again with us. So our first question we always ask at the beginning of the show is what is your superpower and how did you acquire it? KAREN: Okay so, my superpower is the ability to simplify things and I joke that I think I acquired this superpower simply as a coping strategy because there's so much information out there. We're all bombarded with things and maybe my brain is just not as big as other people so I constantly am trying to simplify things so that I can understand them, remember them, convey them, and so forth. And I'll share, I think it served me well, not only as I embarked on my computer science programming school and just trying to like grok everything that I was trying to learn as well as then entering the field initially as a software engineer. Again, simplifying things, divide and conquer, break things down into those procedural elements that can be repeated and generalized. Certainly, then as I moved into executive roles as a vice-president of engineering, you're just context switching all day long. Again, I just had to simplify everything that was going on so that could really remember things, take notes on things, and make decisions based on what I thought I needed to do. Yeah. So that's my superpower. ARTY: That's a great superpower. So in the context of the workplace and you've got teams trying to things out, maybe a design problem you're working on, trying to solve. How does simplifying things come into play in a team context like that? KAREN: Well, it comes into play a lot of ways. I'm remembering one example where there was some interpersonal conflict between two people and I was hearing both sides, as one does, and talking to them both. I got them both in a room because they just weren't seeing each other's point of views, I thought, and they were just working at odds to each other. Hearing them both talk, I was able to say, “So at the heart, this is what we're all trying to do. This is what we are trying to achieve together,” and I got them to confirm that. That was the first step in simplifying just the discussion. They were getting a little emotional about things. They were bringing in a lot of details that frankly, weren't necessary to really understand what was going on and I was able to focus them on that shared purpose that we had for the project. It doesn't even matter what it was. Actually, it was so long ago now I can't quite remember what the issue was, but I remember hearing afterwards one of the people say, “You are so good at simplifying things got down to the heart,” and I'm like, “Yes, I am. That's my superpower.” ARTY: It sounds like even more than that, or maybe a slightly different frame of just the example you just gave. It's not only simplifying things, you are distilling the essence of what's important or what someone is trying to say, and getting at what's the underlying message underneath all the things that someone's actually trying to communicate, even if they're struggling too, so that you can help two people may be coming from different directions, be able to understand one another. That's pretty powerful. KAREN: Well, thank you and I love the way you've just framed it, Arty and oh, those are big shoes to fill. Woo! I hope I've been able to do that in a number of different settings as I think back, but that's yeah, it is powerful. I think I probably still have some stuff I can learn there, too. CHANTÉ: Arty, thank you for teeing up this because what I am curious about in relation to what Karen just mentioned as her superpower, which I think is amazing, is obviously, you have authored a number of books. When it comes to allyship, it sounds like this is a great time where we can get somebody to distill and to simplify and not to oversimplify because there's an art to it. But I would love if you could maybe take us down the pathway of how did you arrive at this moment where you are authoring books on allyship and maybe you could give us a little bit of the backstory, first and then we could get into the superpower you've used along the way in your tech journey. KAREN: Okay. CHANTÉ: And how you're coaching people. KAREN: All right. Chanté, thank you. Yes, I'm happy to. So the backstory, first of all, I never set out to become an author, or to become a speaker, or this expert that people tap into about workplace inclusion. That was not my goal. I was doing my job in tech. I was a vice-president of engineering at Adobe. I was leading engineering teams and realizing that there was a decline happening before my eyes in gender diversity. Now I started my career in tech a long time ago and I started at a time when there was sort of a peak period of women studying computer science in the United States. And so, when I started my career, it wasn't 50-50 by any means, but there was plenty of gender diversity in the teams I was working on, in the conference rooms I was in, in the cube lands that I was working in and I saw a decline happening. So while I was still at Adobe, I started our women's employee resource group—goes back gosh, like 14, 15 years now—and I've started mentoring a lot of women at the company and started basically, being a vocal advocate to make sure women were represented in various leadership meetings I was in, on stage, at our internal events and conferences, giving updates at all-hands meetings, like well, thinking about that. I love doing that work so much and loved doing that work less so my VP of engineering work, I must admit. So about 9 years ago now, I decided to do a big change in my career pivot in my own career, I started leadership coaching practice. A leadership coaching practice focused on helping women who are working in tech in any capacity, any role. But women working in this industry, I wanted to help them grow their leadership skills so they could stay in tech if that's where they wanted to be and not drop out because they felt like, “I just can't get ahead,” or “I'm seeing all the white men get ahead,” for example, “before me.” So I started this coaching practice. I soon realized, though that I had a big problem with my coaching practice and the problem wasn't with my clients—they were amazing. The problem, I don't think was me. I think I'm a decent coach, still learning, still getting better, but decent. And realized the problem really that I was facing is that before I could truly help my clients, I needed to make their companies more inclusive. All of them were working at tech companies where the closer you get to the leadership team, to the C-suite, to the CEO, just the mailer and paler it got. With all due respect to anyone who's male and or pale, I'm white myself, anyone who's listening, who's male and/or pale, like that's just what the demographics were and still are in most of our companies. Also, that coupled with this mentality of, “Hey, we are a meritocracy. People get ahead in our company based on their merits, their accomplishments, the impact to the business.” When in reality, that's not what happens because if it were then the demographics across the company would be uniform, regardless of what level you are at. So the white men were getting ahead more than others. So I was like, “I need to make their companies more inclusive. In fact, I need to make all of tech more inclusive to really help my coaching clients,” and yeah, laugh, right? A big job, one person over here. Now, what's the first thing anyone does these days when they want to change the world? You start a Twitter handle. So I started the Twitter handle @betterallies. I started in 2014 with a goal to share simple everyday actions anyone could take to be more inclusive at work. In hindsight, I was leveraging my super power as I started this Twitter handle. I leveraged it because I started looking at the research that social scientists do about diversity in the workplace and not just gender diversity, but diversity of all kinds. The research that shows that they were uncovering, that shows the challenges that people of non-dominant genders, as well as race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, identity, age, abilities, and so forth. What are the challenges these people face in the workplace as they navigate that? Others are doing this great research and I really am—and this builds on what Arty was saying—I used to think I curated this, but really, I was triaging the research. I was triaging it to simplify it, get it to its essence, and figure out with all this great research that gets published, what is someone supposed to do with it? How is the average person who works in tech supposed to take action with this great research that's out there? So I triage and curate and I do it not just based on the research, but also what I'll call cautionary tales that appear in our news, in our Twitter feeds, and so forth. I'll give you two examples to make it real. One is based on research. There's research that shows that men interrupt women more than the other way around and so, based on that research, I go over to Twitter and I type in something like, “I pledge to notice when interruptions happen in the meetings I attend and redirect the conversation back to the person who was interrupted with a simple, ‘I'd like to hear Chanté finish her thought,’” and something like that that's research-driven. Then the more, the cautionary tales that pop up in the research or in the news that we consume, I remember a few years ago when there was so much that was coming out about Uber and its non-inclusive workplace. Just one of the many things we learned about was that the CEO at the time and founder, Travis Kalanick, he was using the nursing mother's room for his personal phone calls. That's not cool because then the nursing moms can't get in there to do what they need to do. So I would go over to Twitter and just a little bit of snark added, I was like, “I pledge not to use the nursing mother's room for my personal phone calls unlike Travis Kalanick at Uber,” [chuckles]. That kind of thing. So I'm just tweeting a couple times a day. I start getting Twitter messages to this anonymous Twitter account—by the way, it was anonymous at the time—and these Twitter requests would be like, “Hey, does anyone at the Better Allies Initiative do any public speaking?” and I'd be like, ‘The initiative? Huh, it's just me tweeting a couple of times a day. Okay.” But I wanted to speak about this topic and I want to retain my anonymity. So I would write back and say, “Yes, one of our contributors does some public speaking. We'll put you in touch with her,” and I go over to my personal Twitter account type something in like, “Hey, I'm Karen Catlin. I contribute to Better Allies. I love public speaking. What do you have in mind?” So I started speaking on this whole approach of everyday simple actions people could take, the Better Allies approach, and every time I gave a talk, someone would ask, “Hey, Karen, do you have a book? Because we want more of this.” For a few years, “I kept saying, no, I don't have a book. I don't have a book. I don't have a book, sorry.” But I did finally write my book. In fact, I've written two books on the topic—"Better Allies" and also, "The Better Allies™ Approach to Hiring.” The Better Allies book, I just released a second edition. It's been out there for 2 years. I've learned so much that I wanted to do a full update on the book. So I've just released that a few weeks ago. CHANTÉ: I have a follow-up question then, because Karen, you mentioned that you wanted to maintain your anonymity when you started off that handle and I would just love to hear maybe why that's so important when you're doing this work of allyship and accomplishing in this space? KAREN: Yes, and I don't know if it is important for everyone—and I'm not anonymous anymore. I have claimed credit for this. As soon as I published my books. Writing a book is a lot of work; I'm going to claim the credit. But I didn't in the beginning because okay, I'm going to say this. A lot of people thought it was a man behind the Twitter handle and I must admit, I was kind of channeling white men that I have worked with over my career and thinking about what would they really do? What could I get them to do? All of my tweets are first person, “I pledge to do this,” “I will do this,” I'm going to do this,” and there were people I have friends even who were like, “Hey, have you seen this @betterallies Twitter handle? I wonder who's behind it. I'd like to interview him for my podcast,” That type of thing. So I think that there were people out there who thought it was a white man behind the Twitter handle and I was comfortable with that because not only was I channeling these white men I had worked with in the past, but I also think that there's power in men listening to other men. I'll just say that. I have actually gotten speaking engagements when I've said, “I'm a contributor.” They're like, “Are there any men who could speak because we think men would like to hear this message from another man.” So anyway, that's kind of why I started out with that anonymous Twitter handle and with this character behind the scenes of this fake man. [laughs] But now it's okay. I say that I curate it, it's me, and I'm comfortable with that. I still do it first person because I think that white women can also be allies. We all can be allies for others with less privilege than ourselves in the workplace and I think it's important for us, everyone to be thinking, “This is a job I can and should do to be inclusive at work and to look for these everyday situations. I can take ally actions and make a difference.” ARTY: How's that changed things like, revealing your identity and that you're not actually a big white dude? [chuckles] KAREN: I know. Well, I never really said I was a big white dude! Or even a small white dude, or whatever. But I think it's fine. I claimed the association with the Twitter handle when I published my book and it was just time to just own it. It's not like people stopped following me or stopped retweeting or anything like that. It's only grown since then. So Arty, it's a good question, but I don't know. I don't know. REIN: And this is more than a little ironic because when you were talking about your coaching—and I'm going to read into this a little bit, but I think you can confirm that it's backed up by the research—to appear equally competent or professional, women have to do more and other minoritized groups have to do more. So what I was reading in was that part of the problem you had with coaching was that to get them to an equal playing field, they had to be better. KAREN: Yes. What you're describing, Rein is “prove-it-again” bias and this is well-researched and documented. Prove-it-again means that women have to prove themselves over and over again where men just have to show potential. This often happens and I'm going to give you just a scenario to bring it home. Imagine sitting in some sort of promotion calibration discussion with other managers in your group and you're talking about who gets promotions this cycle. Someone might say, “Well, I'd like to see Arty prove that she can handle managing people before we move her to the next level.” When Arty, maybe you've already been doing that for a few years; you've already managed a team, you've built a team, whatever. “I'd like to make sure she can do this with this additional thing,” like, make sure she can do it with an offshore team or something. “I want to see her do it again.” Whereas a man's like, “Ah, Damien's great. I know he can do the job. Let's promote him.” Okay, totally making this up. But you see what I'm saying is that this is what the prove-it-again bias is. So whether it is women have to be twice as good or something like that, I don't know if that's exactly what's going on, but they have to deal with this bias of once again, I have to prove that I'm worthy to be at this table, to be in this conversation, to be invited to that strategic planning meeting, to get that promotion, and I don't want to coach women to have to keep proving themselves over and over again. Instead, I want to change the dynamics of what's happening inside these organizations so it is a better playing field, not just for my clients who are mostly women, but also, anyone out there who's from an underrepresented group, who might be facing challenges as they try to navigate this world that really has been designed for other people. ARTY: Wow, that's really enlightening. I'm just thinking about this from a cognitive science perspective and how our brains work, and then if you're making a prediction about something and have an expectation frame for that. If I have an expectation that someone's going to do well, like I have a dream and image in my mind that they'll fit this particular stereotype, then if they just show potential to fit this image in my head, I can imagine and envision them doing all these things and trust that imaginary dream in my head. Whereas, if I have the opposite dream in my head where my imagination shows this expectation of this person falling on their face and doing all these things wrong, I'm already in a position of having to prove something that's outside of that expectation, which is so much harder to do. So this is the effect of these biases basically being baked into our brain already is all of our expectations and things are set up to work against people that culturally, we have these negative expectations around that have nothing to do with those actual people. KAREN: Thanks. Arty, have you ever read the book, Whistling Vivaldi? ARTY: I haven't. I am adding that to my list. KAREN: It explores stereotype threat, which is exactly what you've just described, and the title, just to give you some insight into this, how this shows up. The title, Whistling Vivaldi, is all about a story of a Black man who had to walk around his neighborhood, which I believe is mostly white and got just the concerns that people didn't trust him navigating this public space, his neighborhood. So what he would do, and I don't know if it was just in the evenings or any time, he went out to walk to be outside, he would whistle Vivaldi to break the stereotype that he was a bad person, a scary person because of the color of his skin. Instead, by whistling Vivaldi, he gave off the feeling that he was a highly educated person who studied classical music and he did that so that he could navigate his neighborhoods safely. It's awful to think about having to do that, but this book is full of these examples. It's a research-driven approach so, it's a great book to understand stereotype threat and combat it. DAMIEN: So in the interest of us and our listeners, I suppose being better allies, you spoke about stereotype threat and gave an example there. You spoke about prove-it-again bias and specifically, with prove-it-again bias, I want to know what are ways that we can identify this real-time and counter it in real-time? KAREN: Yes. With prove-it-again bias—well, with any bias, really. First of all, reminding yourself that it exists is really important. At Google, they found that simply reminding managers, before they went into a calibration, a performance calibration meeting, probably some rank ordering exercise of all the talent in the organization. Before they started a calibration meeting, they were all given a 1-page handout of here's the way bias can creep into this process. That simple act of having people review the list of here's the way bias creeps into the process was enough to help combat it during the subsequent conversation. So I think we have to remind ourselves of bias and by the way, this resource I'm describing is available as a download on Google's re:Work website. I think it's R-E-: work. There's a re:Work website with tons of resources, but it's available for download there. So that's one thing you can do is before a calibration meeting or before you're about to start an interview debrief session with a team, is remind people of the kinds of bias that can come into play so that people are more aware. Other things, and I'll talk specifically about hiring, is I am a huge proponent of making sure that before you interview the first candidate, you have objective criteria that you're going to use to evaluate the candidates because otherwise, without objective criteria, you start relying on subjectivity, which is code for bias. Things will start to be said of, “I just don't think they'd be a culture fit,” which is code for bias of “They're different from us. They're different from me. I don't think I'd want to go get a beer with them after work,” or “If I had to travel with them and get stuck on a long layover somewhere when we can travel again, I don't think I'd enjoy that.” People just instead say, “I just don't think they'd be a culture fit. So you get away from that by, instead in your objective criteria, looking for other things that are technically needed for the job, or some values perhaps that your company has in terms of curiosity or lifelong learning or whatever your company values are. You interview for those things and you figure out how you're going to measure someone against those objective criteria. Other way bias creeps into interviews is looking at or saying something like, “Well, they don't have this experience with Docker that this other candidate has,” but really, that wasn't part of the job description. No one said that the candidates needed Docker experience, but all of a sudden, because one of the candidates has Docker experience, that becomes important. So instead of getting ahead of that, make sure you list exactly what you're going to be interviewing for and evaluating people for so that the bias isn't there and bias, maybe all of a sudden Docker becomes an important thing when you realize you could get it. But it may be that it's the person who seems the most like the people in the team who has it and that’s another – you're just using that as a reason for increasing that candidate’s success to join your team because you'd like to hang out with them. You'd like to be with them. You would want to be getting a beer with them. Does that help, Damien? DAMIEN: Yeah, that's very helpful. The framing is an absolutely pre-framing before an evaluation, before an interview what biases can happen. That's a wonderful tool, which I am going to be using everywhere I can. And then what you said about culture fit and really, every subjective evaluation is, I think the words you used was “code for bias.” Like, anytime you have a subjective evaluation, it's going to be biased. So being able to decide in advance what your objective evaluations are, then you can help avoid that issue. Culture fit is just such a red flag for me. You said, I wrote down the words, “culture built,” right? Decide what the culture is – because culture is important in the company, decide what the culture is you want and then interview and evaluate for that. KAREN: Yeah. Oh, I love that. Build the culture instead of just fit the culture. I've also heard people say, “If you ever hear someone say, I don't think they'd be a culture fit, respond with ‘Well, I think they'd be a culture add,’” or Damien, to quote you, “I think they build our culture instead of just fit in.” Really powerful, really powerful. CHANTÉ: Yeah. I agree with you all and Karen, I'm not sure if you knew this, but one of the many things I do, which takes up most of my life, is I'm a DEI practitioner and I have a firm, and I also work in-house at a company, Village MD, as a director of DEI there. So one of the things that I talk a lot about is culture add and one of the things I'd love to see more companies do is to think about like, basically take an inventory of all the people on your team and try to identify where you're strong, where you're weak, and look for the skills gap analysis, basically and say, “What don't we have here,” and then, “Let's go hire for that skillset or that expertise that we don't have that we believe could help us build this thing better this year.” That's going to require people to do that exercise, not just once because your team dynamic shifts usually a few times a year. So if you're a high growth company, you should be doing that probably every quarter. But imagine what the difference would be if we approach interviewing and promotion building from that lens instead. KAREN: Yeah, and Chanté, the way you framed it is amazing. I love it. You said, “What do we not have that we need to build our product to deliver to our customers?” I don't remember the exact words you used, but that I think is important because I've also, in conversations I've had around culture fit and culture and everything, someone say to me, “Well, wait a second, Karen, what if you we're evaluating a white supremacist? It's clear, there are white supremacists and we don't have one of those yet on the team. Does that mean we should open the doors and let them in?” That's when it's like, you can use the way you've just framed as “Well, if we're building a product for white supremacists, then yeah, probably.” But to be more serious about this, it's like what's missing from our team structure, from the diversity within this team, that is going to allow us to deliver on our product, on our offering better? I think that's important. Another lens to apply here is also you can still do values fit. Make sure people fit with the values that you have as a company and that should allow you to interview out people who don't fit with your values and just to use that example of a white supremacist. That would be the way to do that, too. REIN: I think it's really important to say that ethics still matters here and values fit as a way to express that. One of the things that I would maybe caution or challenge is—and this isn't a direct challenge to you, Karen, I don't think—but it's been popular in the industry to try to remove bias from the equation. To do debiasing training and things like that and I think that that's the wrong way to go because I don't think it's cognitively possible to remove bias. I think instead what we should do, what I think that you're talking about here is being aware of the biases we have. Accounting for them in the way that we hire, because the same heuristic that leads to a bias against certain demographics is the one we use to say, “We don't want white supremacists.” KAREN: Yeah. Plus a hundred, yes. [laughs] I agree. What I was going to say, Rein to build on what you just shared is that it's important to see things like color, for example, to understand. Even if you feel you're not biased, it's important to see it, to see color, to see disability, to see someone who is going through a transition, for example, on their identity. It's important to see it because that allows you to understand the challenges that they are facing and if you say, “I don't see color, I just see them as their new identity, post-transition. I don't see their disability; I just see the person,” it negates the experience they're having, as they are trying to navigate the workplace and to be the best allies, you need to understand the challenges people are facing and how you can take action to help them either mitigate the challenge, get around the challenge, whatever that might be, or remove the challenge. ARTY: So you're not being empathetic to the circumstances by pretending that they don't exist. KAREN: Yes. Well said, yes. REIN: It’s the idea that you can be on bias that I think is dangerous. I want to call back to this idea of a meritocracy; the idea that every choice we make is based on merit and that whatever we choose is indicative of the merit of that person is the bias that is harmful. KAREN: Woo, yes. I can't wait to refer to that. I can't wait to come back and listen to you. What you just said, Rein that is powerful. REIN: Because becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? We're a meritocracy so everything we've chosen is means – if we chose someone that means that they have merit by definition. There's no way out of that trap. KAREN: Right on. CHANTÉ: Yeah. When you say that, it makes me think, too of just the sort of committal to always transforming and iterating. So if you come in the door saying, “Listen, there's no way we can eliminate bias all the time.” We're going to make the assumption that we're always being biased and therefore, what things can we put into place and what tools can we use? What resources can we leverage here to make sure that we're on a pathway for greater inclusion, greater accessibility? Therefore, making our organization more diverse and more innovative. I think, like Rein, I just want to really underscore that because that is something that I've had to really try to lead with versus add to the conversation later. So I'm appreciating that you brought it up today. Thank you. REIN: It’s like some of the choices, some of the evaluations we're making are subjective. We can't make them objective in every case; I think what we want is a framework that allows us to do these subjective evaluations in a way that accounts for bias. DAMIEN: So that's amazing. Where do we go from here? ARTY: One of the things we talked about last time with regards to various people getting promoted, this effect of maler and paler as you get closer to the C-suite, is that one of the effects of that is when you're sitting down to hire someone, well, who do you know? Who's on the list of people that I know within my network? So one of the huge biases we end up having isn't necessarily a cognitive bias, it's just a effect of where our attention has been and who we've been hanging out and who we have relationships with that are preexisting. These existing network effects also keep us in the thinking and stuff and making decisions within the context of those networks. We promote people that we know. We promote people that we have relationships with. So even just some of the dynamics of if you've got existing C-suite dynamics that is dominated by men and you've got these dynamics where it’s difficult for men and women to have relationships for various reasons, things that get complicated, that those sorts of things can end up creating a self-reinforcing effect, too. I'm wondering what are some of your thoughts on some of the ways that we can expand our networks and expand the people that we know to shift some of those systemic effects? KAREN: Yeah. Most of us have homogenous networks. Homogenous networks meaning people who are just like us because we have something in common with them, whether that is hobbies that we share, music we like talking about, food we like to go out to enjoy whatever we have things in common. So most of us end up having a –and it's true. Most white people have networks that are full of other white people and this also is friendship circles. There's again, social science research out there that shows that we tend to have networks full of people just like us. As you just were saying, Arty this impacts so many aspects of work in terms of who we hire, who we recommend, who we promote, who we even ask to take on some like stretch assignment or tasks such as giving the update at the all-hands meeting for our team, or going in and exploring some new technology that might be on the horizon that we could leverage. Who are we going to trust with these stretch assignments are people that we know and the people that we know are the people in our network. So it is important to look to diversify our network. There's so many ways to do this. When I give talks, I share some of these ways. One is literally when new people join your team or from a different demographic than you, get to know them and get to know their work and their career goals and down the road, look for how you might be able to connect some dots. But really, take the time to get to know people who you might otherwise just like, “Oh yeah, they're joining the team, whatever,” but set up that virtual coffee or whatever. The other thing you can do is join Slack groups or other discussion forums at your company for people from that demographic. After checking first, if you'd be welcome and invited, of course, but many of these groups will be open to allies and if you are wanting to join that discussion groups so that you can sort of understand the conversation, understand the challenges, get to know some of this talent. That's a great way to do it. You can also go to conferences that are designed for members of other groups that you're not a part of. Again, asking first permission, if you'd be welcome as an ally, but in tech, there's so many of these, but there's lesbians who tech, there are Black women in tech or Black coders conferences. There are Latinas in tech. Meetups and things like that. So there's so many opportunities to go and hear incredibly talented speakers talking about the technology and the projects and the work that they do and it's a great way to expand your network. I'll share my favorite hack that I do when it's in-person and I'm going to a meetup or an event. I'm an introvert, I will let everyone know that. It's hard for me to go into a networking group like the meetup that's happening and there's some pizza and some drinks before it starts, or that conference reception. It's hard for me to go into a room like that. So when I do, I quickly scan the room and I look for someone who's standing by themselves or sitting by themselves, who is from a different demographic and I go over and say, “Hi.” That's the easiest introduction for me as an introvert is to go find someone who's all by themselves and maybe feeling a little awkward that they're all by themselves too and it's a great way to strike a conversation and again, to expand my network, meet some new people, not just my friends that might be coming to the same event. DAMIEN: So one of the things that I want to call attention to, too with what you're saying there is that this marginalization and privilege is self-reinforcing. You don't have to have – even though we all have cognitive biases, they aren't actually necessary for marginalization and privilege to self-reinforce and in fact, because that actually takes effort to undo these things. If we just go along, if we pretend not to see color, or whatever, we are actually reinforcing the problems that exist. KAREN: Yeah, and Damien, on that note. In my book, and it's also a free download on my website, betterallies.com. I have a list that I've curated of 50 ways you might have privilege in the workplace. I like people to read through this list and think about all the ways they have privilege that others might not. The top of the list are “I'm a male,” and “I'm white,” and those are the top two things. But then it gets into more nuanced things and nuanced things being, “I'm not the primary caregiver for someone else.” Well, why is that something we should be aware of as allies? Well, when you're the primary caregiver, that means you may have to drop things at a moment's notice to take a child or a parent to a doctor's appointment, for example, or you might be interrupted in your work. So there's privilege when you don't have that caregiving responsibility. Another one is that you actually have budget enough spare money so that you can do after work outings with a team that aren't company sanctioned. Like, “Yeah, I can afford to go out to dinner,” and gosh, this all sounds so weird now with the pandemic and how long it’s lasting. But “Yeah, I can go out for drinks or dinner with my team after work and pay my way,” or “I can do that whitewater rafting trip on the weekend that people are getting together with.” Even though it's not company work, it's still networking and that builds bonds that builds relationships and sure, work is going to be discussed. It also includes things such as “I am not holding a visa,” which means that I have confidence that I maybe can take some risks with my career. “I can move teams, move to another manager, try something new out because I have confidence that I'm not going to potentially lose my job, which means losing my visa, which means losing my ability to live in the United States.” So there's so many ways that we have privileged that I think at first blush, we might not realize and I think building on your point, Damien it's important for us to understand this privilege so that we can be understanding of how and why we should be diversifying our network and getting to know people who have different levels of privilege than ourselves. REIN: And if you're like a white dude who's like, “This is a lot to keep track of.” Yes. When you don't have them, it's obvious. KAREN: Yeah, you can be oblivious. Otherwise – not that you would be, Rein. I'm not saying that, but one can be very oblivious. REIN: I’m probably oblivious of like, at least 30 of them, so. DAMIEN: For people who are marginalized every axes, we really cannot be unaware. It's dangerous. Those of us who were unaware of it, suffer disastrous consequences. So in places where you are privileged, if one of the privileges is to not be aware of it and yes, it is a lot to keep track of and yes, as everybody else has to keep track of that stuff. KAREN: Yeah, and building on what you both just said, this is just like technology in some ways and let me explain what I mean by that. Let's not take it out of context because there's some nuanced stuff I'm about to share. But in tech, there are so many areas of specialty, whether that is in data science or product security or accessibility related engineering or internationalization engineering and, and, and like, there's so many areas of expertise. And Rein, you’re like, “As a white guy, how am I supposed to keep track of all of this?” Well, it's hard. I get it because the field keeps changing, things keep getting innovated on or brought to the surface and the same thing, I'm sure that Chanté sees this in the DEI space. We are learning all the time about how to create more inclusive workplaces where everyone can do their best work and thrive. It's the same as like what am I learning about writing the right kind of code that is going to have lasting impact, that is going to not cause incidents over the weekend [chuckles] when we all want to be doing something else? When it's not going to down the road because technical debt that is going to have to be retired? So yeah, it's hard work. I don't mean to say it's not, but we need to make sure we have people who are thinking about this around us, who are reminding us, who are teaching us the best practices so that we are getting ahead of this versus falling behind. REIN: One of the things you said last time that I really want to make sure we bring back up is that doing this work is everyone's job. KAREN: Yes. Yeah, and Rein, I think we got into that conversation talking specifically about product security, software security. You can have a team of people who are software security specialists/experts. In fact, when I was at Adobe in my department, that was one of the groups in my department was cross-engineering product security specialists and they know this stuff. They are paying attention to the landscape. They know when those zero-day incidents happen and what the response is like, and what bounties are being paid and they know all of that because they love it. They're paying attention to it, but they can't solve the problem for the whole company. They cannot make sure that every piece of code is hardened so that the viruses don't get injected. There aren't security violations. What they need to do is educate others, be there to support them when things go bad. But it's really about educating every engineer to be using the libraries the right way, to be allocating memory in the right way, whatever so that we don't have those security violations and it's the same thing with being inclusive. I have so much respect for anyone and Chanté, it sounds like you do this work, but like, you are responsible for diversity at a company and are looking top down at what are the measurements we're going to have? What are the quarterly or annual goals that we want to have to improve our diversity? How are we going to measure that, make it happen? But we also need people in every corner of the organization, in every code review meeting, in every interview debrief, in every casual hallway conversation, or a chat in a Slack, we need all of those people to realize they have a role to play in being inclusive and have some awareness of what it looks like to not be inclusive. What someone from a different demographic is experiencing in a way you might not and what are some of the ways you can take action? So I see so many parallels there and I firmly believe, it's something I say all the time like, you don't have to have the words “diversity inclusion” belonging on your business card to make a difference. It's inclusion as a job for everyone. CHANTÉ: Yeah. That's one of the things I wrote down that I wanted to make sure that we directed folks to. I love that on your website. That was one of the things that before I ever even knew you were going to be a guest here. That's why I started following you. I love that and I want to actually dive into that because one of the things that I hear often from people when I'm doing this work, they're like, “You're so good at this.” I'm like, “Yeah, but this is a skill that you have to work towards.” So it's just like any other thing you want to make a lifestyle. You have to wake up that day and make a decision. If you're somebody who wants to eat healthier, then you wake up every morning and you have decisions to make. If you are a yogi like me, you might decide that you want to get on your yoga mat or you might want to pick up a book and read the philosophy instead. So it's a lifestyle. I'd love it if you could maybe tell us a little bit about your journey because it's humbling to hear that you got into this work knowing that you wanted to coach women in tech, but you didn't necessarily aspire to be thinking about and writing about allyship, but that became a part of it. So what are some things that you did early on, or what are some things that you're doing now in terms of showing up every day and being a better ally? KAREN: Yeah. I think that one thing you have to be comfortable with and it's hard, but I do this a lot is being an ally means realizing you're going to be wrong some of the time, because you are constantly stepping outside of that comfort zone that is just so safe—"I know how to navigate this kind of conversation, using these kinds of words and everything”—and you have to keep stepping outside that comfort zone so that you are taking some risks and you're going to make some mistakes. You are. I make them pretty regularly. I might put something in a newsletter. I send out a weekly newsletter called 5 Ally Actions with 5 ideas and things people can take and I get emails back from people who disagree with me or say, “If I had written that, I would have changed it slightly this way,” or whatever, and I'm comfortable with that because I approach everything with this mindset of curious, instead of furious. I want to be curious about why someone's giving me the feedback and what's underneath there and what can I learn from it as opposed to getting furious at them for giving me feedback and like, assaulting my expertise, or whatever, or my voice. So curious, not furious, I think is an important thing here and I want to give a shout out. I learned that phrase from a podcast I was listening to and it was Kat Gordon, who has something called The 3% Movement, which is all about getting more gender diversity in the creative industry, like the ad industry. So hat tipped to Kat Gordon for that. So getting back to you got to get comfortable with making mistakes and when we make a mistake, acknowledge it, apologize. Heartfelt apology, folks. Apologize and then figure out what you're going to do differently the next time. That's what it's all about. So the journey is real. No one ever gets an ally badge or an ally cookie. In fact, I will tell you, I recently searched on LinkedIn in job titles for ally. I was curious to see how many people put in their job titles. There are people out there who have claimed it and I don't think that's right. Unless someone else has told them that, in which case, okay, someone else has said, “You are an ally,” maybe you can put that in your title and claim the badge, but it's really not about that. It's about being on a lifelong journey really, to be inclusive, to keep learning, to keep understanding how things are changing, and not putting the spotlight on yourself. Opening the doors for other people and just stand right behind that door and realizing that it's not about you. It's so hard to do this at times because we all want to be like, “Hey, look at the cool thing I just did for somebody else.” We want that feedback, but being an ally means stepping out of the limelight and letting someone else shine. CHANTÉ: Those are great. Thank you so much, Karen, for that. I want to ask one more question since we're there. In terms of not making it about ourselves and not necessarily centering ourselves and taking action in the moment and not giving ourselves the allyship title, if you will, who are some people that you either align yourself with or that you learn from, whether it's up close and personal or from a distance? Like who are people that you feel are providing you with gems and knowledge so that you are then sharing with folks like us, that we can at least either put in the show notes or give a shout out to? KAREN: Yes! Oh, I love this. So many people. One, I will say right off the bat is Minda Harts. Minda Harts is a woman, a Black woman, and she wrote a book called The Memo: What Women of Color Need to Know to Get a Seat at the Table, I think is the byline. She and I spoke on a panel together a few months ago and I learned so much from her. I learned a lot from reading her book about the experience with Black women in the workplace, but then also, on the panel and since then, I feel that we have a nice professional, Twitter kind of friendship going on, which I just value so much. So I learned from her and what she shares all the time. Another person I learned from is Jeannie Gainsburg. Jeannie Gainsburg is an LGBTQ educator and wrote a book called The Savvy Ally and The Savvy Ally is all about – the funny thing is she and I connected. We realized we went to college together or the same class, but we didn't know each other in college, but we have the same mindset of understanding something and then distilling it into how an ally can show up. With her perspective, it's all about being an ally for the LGBTQ community and I've learned so much from her. In fact, I've quoted both Minda and Jeannie in my second edition pretty heavily. I also have learned a lot from David Smith and Brad Johnson. They recently published a book called Good Guys and their approach is also incredibly similar to mine, but they focus completely on how men can be allies for women and they don't focus on other aspects of allyship. But very much I learned about, they're the guys who are talking to other guys and basically saying, “Hey dude, it's your responsibility as a man in a professional setting to be an ally.” Like, it's part of your job to meet with the women on your team and sponsor them and support them. So, they tell it in a real way. Oh my gosh, I feel like I learned from so many other people, too and I'm forgetting, I'm not thinking holistically. So anyway, those are four people it's nice to give shout outs to. CHANTÉ: We put you on the spot so thank you, Karen. [laughs] KAREN: Okay. Here's another one. Corey Ponder, he works in tech, but he also does speaking and writing about diversity and inclusion on the side and he is a Black man. I just learned about his experience and perspective in such a real, raw way and I value that a lot. DAMIEN: Karen, I'd like to ask you a bit about something you brought up really early in our conversation today. You mentioned that before you got into this work with Better Allies and that sort of work, before you became a executive coach, leadership coach, you noticed a decline in gender parity in the tech industry. Can you talk about what that decline was, how it might've happened? KAREN: Yeah. So first of all, Damien a question for you. Were you surprised when I said that? DAMIEN: [chuckles] Well, no, not at all. I actually just today read about one of the earliest computers at NASA which is a woman, a Black woman, that the astronauts explicitly by name depended on, for example, Apollo 13. So I wanted to hear your story about what happened. KAREN: Yeah. Okay, okay. I asked only because there are many people who, when I just drop that into the conversation, they ended up coming back to it minutes and minutes later or towards the end of any kind of interview. At any rate, what happened? So I have theory and actually I gave a TEDx talk about this, exploring the theory. I won't do all 20 minutes of my TEDx talk, but when I decided to study computer science, I was a senior in high school trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life kind of thing, what I wanted to study in college. My father said to me, “Hey, well, Karen, you're really good at math and you enjoy making things. You're always crafting and sewing and knitting, and you like solving problems. I've just been reading this article about this new field called computer science which seems like it would combine all the things you're good at and maybe you would enjoy making software and by the way, this is what people earn in this field.” [chuckles] I have to admit, I grew up in a very humble financial household and so, I wanted to make sure I could support myself and earn a living when I graduated from college. So I'm like, “Okay, I'll study computer science. I'll learn how to build software.” That was 1981, the year I graduated from high school. Now get this, I had never touched a computer. Okay, we didn't have – I mean, 1981 was the year the IBM PC was released into the field. The Macintosh did not come out until 1984. So in my home, we did not have computers in the part-time jobs I had after school and summers, no one had computers and certainly, we didn't not have computers in my high school where I could learn to code where it would probably would have been in basic. This was a situation for many people across the United States. Going to college in the early 80s, if you wanted to study computer science, many people were coming with no experience. Maybe a little more than me. Maybe they had taken that basic class, but very little experience. It was almost like a level playing field at that point and we were encouraged to pursue this. My graduating class from college, I went back through my yearbook not too long ago to count, there were 38% of the computer science degrees went to women in my class and that statistic 38% is very similar to what was happening across the whole United States. According to the Department of Education, the year 1985, when I graduated from college, 37% of all computer science and information science degrees went to women. So that was pretty good. Now, fast forward 20, 25 years and that number dropped to a low of about 17%, I think and the overall number also went down of how many women were getting these degrees. And now, you don't have to have a computer science degree to work in tech necessarily, but in many tech environments and tech companies, the engineers are incredibly valued and are very visible and are paid very well. They are an incredibly important part of any tech company. So my point is that there used to be a lot more women computer scientists and it did drop. I do think it's this level playing field that I started at, but the decline happened because I believe a society, we as a society, started thinking and encouraging our young boys to get involved with robotics, with tinkering, with coding classes, with summer camps where you might learn to do coding or programming robotics. We encouraged our young boys more than our young girls and over time, that meant that a girl, if she wanted to go to the summer coding camp in her neighborhood, would show up and see only boys there, or see only a very small number of girls and be like, “Well, maybe this isn't for me.” Or coding assignments in colleges that were much more aligned with masculine interests and more feminine interests. Things that might be more – oh, I don't even really want to get into stereotypes. I don't even want to go there, but things that would be more appealing to an 18-year-old boy than an 18-year-old girl who just have different interests and just became self-fulfilling. What we're seeing now though, is that graph is moving in the right direction. The numbers are inching upwards because there's been so much focus across the United States – and hopefully, around the world, but across the United States, in terms of gender diversity is important in this field and we should be welcoming of all and we're making changes to all of these programs and encouraging our young girls to study this field, get involved with STEM, and pursue it when they get to college and beyond. DAMIEN: Yeah, you avoided giving an example so I'll give one that you reminded me of, which is for a very long time, the standard, the most common image used as an example of compression algorithms was that of a undressed woman and so, we can – KAREN: Lena. Her name is Lena. Yes, actually I know her name. She was someone when they were working on an image compression algorithm like, “We need a picture,” and someone just grabbed the Playboy magazine from their cube, took the centerfold out, and used that. REIN: You do. [laughter] Or at least as you did. The effect here is really interesting and also, really, it makes me very sad, which is that computing became seen as a prestige job. Once men realized that there was something to this, it requires expertise, they decided that they were going to do it and when they did—there's research that shows this both ways. When men enter a field, it raises the prestige and increases wages. When women enter a field, it lowers the prestige and decreases wages. KAREN: Yeah, that's a problem, but real. I don't mean to at all disagree. It's a real problem. ARTY: Just curious. Do we reinforce these things by saying them as a statement like that with a period versus bringing it up as a question? REIN: Yeah. ARTY: I'm just wondering. REIN: What I’m trying to do is describe and not be normative, but I think that's a valid point. ARTY: In my life coaching thing recently, we were talking about statements with periods and it's really easy to define the world of expectations of ourselves, define the world of expectations of everyone else for all time and all affinity as a statement with a period. As we go and do this, it creates these reinforcing effects, and then we go and do things and enact behaviors that reinforce those belief systems. So we're sitting here talking about biases and how all of this stuff gets baked in her brain and one of the ways that it gets baked into her brain is by making statements of “Well, this is how it is period.” I realize you’re making a statement of something to challenge, but I think it's something that we really need to think about that if we want to change the status quo, it starts with reimagining it different. Coming up with a different statement, with a period even as a starting point, and then letting that lead to questions of how do we go and manifest this new reality that is more what we want. KAREN: Can I embarrass myself? [laughs] ARTY: Yes, of course. KAREN: Okay, right. [laughter] KAREN: So I have two children. That's not embarrassing. They're in their early 20s now. That's not embarrassing. I had read, when they were younger, that there is research done that said that if you tell a girl just before she takes a math test, that girls aren't good at math, that her score will actually go down. This is the embarrassing thing. So before dropping my daughter off for like her PSATs and SAT exams, I just said, “Remember, girls are really good at math and you are really good at math, too.” [chuckles] So maybe already changing the narrative by using different periods statements, too [laughs] making up alternate realities. Oh gosh, I can't believe I just shared that story. My daughter would probably be so embarrassed. DAMIEN: That’s a modern story and I don't think there's anything to be embarrassed about there and I think Arty brings up an amazing and very valuable points. The suggestion I want to make in response to that is, because what Rein was describing is a fact and I’m sure it's important to know about and to know that it happened—and I'm already using that language now: it happened. In the past when men went into a field, it became more prestigious and higher paid. When women into a field, it became less prestigious and higher paid. And that's what has happened in the past and by stating it that way, now we can go, “Okay, what are we going to do now?” REIN: There's a thing I learned from Virginia Satir that I probably should have done here, which is when you find one of those ends with a period sentences Arty, like you're talking about, you add until now at the end. So when women enter a male dominated fields, wages go down until now. ARTY: And now they go up. Now they go up because everyone wants women because they're so awesome. Women bring so much awesomeness to the table so wages go up. The more women you have, the better the wages. CHANTÉ: Period. KAREN: Yeah. [laughter] Yeah, and—yes, and—the other kind of way to look at this is, I've been doing a lot of work with how might we statements and so the question is, how might we change the trajectory? How might we imagine the future of work where all people and all identities are welcome and we are building towards a future that is literally more equitable and more accessible for all? So how might we do that? We can maybe answer that question today, or we can invite folks who are going to listen in to weigh in when we post this online and talk to us on Twitter. ARTY: I love that, though. I mean, I think if we really want to change the status quo, part of that is realizing that we're the ones who make it. We're the ones that create our reality and our culture is just a manifest of all these beliefs and things that are in our head emerging from all of us. If we realize that we're actually the ones that are in control of that, that we're the ones that are manife
Show Notes In Episode 150, I catch up with Karen Lock Kolp, M.Ed. of the We Turned Out Okay website and podcast. Karen is an early childhood development expert and parent coach. Karen helps worried and hovering parents by bringing reassuring, helpful advice and conversations. She offers simple strategies and guidance in her book, 10 Secrets Happy Parents Know: How to Stop the Chaos, Bring Out Your Child’s Good Behavior, and Truly Enjoy Family Time. Big Ideas • Making little tweaks in our parenting can have positive effects that make our lives easier and calmer. • Kids are very capable and can contribute a lot in the home. • It’s important to lower our expectations of ourselves and focus on some daily connection time with family rather than all of the things we feel like we “must do” right now. • Going through a tough time with at least one person is better than alone—find that person! Quotes Audrey: I think they really need to just relax their expectations of themselves. There's no way you're going to be engaged, connecting, entertaining your children for their entire waking hours. You need to balance it. Try to do something fun every day, maybe for a little bit of time, but also finding those things that can keep your kids busy is really important right now. Karen: As much as you can, make your home life structure so that there is a lot of connection, a lot of laughter, reading aloud to your child. Karen: If you can read aloud to them and make it infectious and fun, you will find them wanting to read aloud to you. And that's what we want. We want it to come from them. We want it to be motivated by them. Karen: It's a rare time for that. I mean, you talk about what is possible, which is an expression that Pat Flynn has used. He is an entrepreneurial podcaster. I really love him. He's got the smart, passive income podcast and he's just relentlessly positive. And he asked the question, “What does this make possible?” And it does make possible a whole bunch of scary things, but we can't live in that space. We have to live like this. Maybe this will make possible some positive things. Maybe our children will discover clay in the brook behind the house and learn how to take that clay and make it into actual, usable, moldable clay. Audrey: Even pretty young kids could help with some cooking, but I mean, if you have even an eight or nine year old, they can cook a meal for you and you can just teach them and then they can just do it on their own. And that would make them feel great and be an incredible life skill to take out of this time. Audrey: My mindset is: everyone's helping, no matter how young you are, we're all going to do something. Audrey: I think sometimes we just have to remember that our kids can do more. So if we're thinking, “Oh my gosh, the house is a mess and I have to do it.” And I think that we can enlist our kids and now more than ever, we can just say, “Hey, we really need you.” Karen: My goal is to change behavior so that you don't have to do as much negative disciplining. You can just be happy because things are much more smooth. Audrey: I think we just all need to take a deep breath and just realize that maybe there's just little tweaks that we can do—simple things that actually make life easier, not harder. Audrey: I also think that it's really important during this time for people to find community. Audrey: We're all okay. It's not looking great really anywhere. And that's okay right now. Audrey: I think it's just finding whatever it is that works for you to get you in the right mindset to be able to be flexible and know that none of us really knows what tomorrow's bringing and we have to just be okay with that because all we can do is try to make the most of today with whatever people we’re with. Audrey: You took something that was really a scary, bad thing and turned it into something amazing. Audrey: I hope that one of the outcomes from this is we all realize that we need each other and we can lean on each other and, we'll get through this better together than alone. Resources/Related Ep. 38: We Turned Out Okay with Karen Lock Kolp Ep. 69: 10 Secrets Happy Parents Know We Turned out Okay (Karen Lock Kolp’s Website) Download Karen’s “Calming the Weeknight Chaos” Helping Your Fearful Kid Try New Things I was also guest on Karen’s We Turned Out Okay Podcast! Our topic was Give Your Child the Magic of Summer Camp! Karen's Interview on Am Writing 32 Ways to Occupy Stuck-At-Home Kids Crucial Conversations Book Smart Passive Income Podcast with Pat Flynn Karen's Ninja Parenting Community Positive Discipline Ninja Tactics Book Positive Discipline Ninja Tactics Podcast Episode Karen's OkayCon 2020 Author: Mary Balogh One Simple Thing My one simple thing tip this week is to focus on strengths. When we've spent a lot of time with people, we can start to get fixated on their faults and the things they do that annoy us. Take a moment to list out the people you're sheltering with and one strength you appreciate about each of them. Focusing on strengths is a great strategy for improving family relationships! Creating a Strengths-Based Camp, American Camp Association Ep. 28: Focusing on our Kids’ Strengths Celebrating Strengths Focusing on Our Kids’ Strengths My Favorite My favorite this week is one of my favorite mood boosters: listening to music! Music, especially songs that have an uplifting beat or lyrics, are a great way to improve your mood. Here are two of my current favorite "feel good" listens. https://youtu.be/8YuWAZmD0aU https://youtu.be/3osp2p_gLx4
S2. E22. Author Uncut Podcast - Sensitivity Reader Question: Is Calling Someone a "Karen," Racist? (AuthorUncut.com) THIS IS THE LAST EPISODE OF THE SEASON. SEASON 3 BEGINS IN OCTOBER. But first, if you enjoy my podcast, I'd be grateful if you spread the word by leaving a rating and a review. Author Uncut can be found wherever you enjoy listening to your podcasts. Recently while doing a Sensitivity Read, an author asked me if calling someone a "Karen" is a slur or racist. I'll answer that question in this last episode of season 2. So what exactly is a "Karen?" It's a term used to describe a woman, usually a white woman wielding her privilege by approaching a stranger, usually a black man or woman, accusing them of one thing or another. They may have an issue with their kids in a swimming pool, them sitting on a bench, walking through a neighborhood, sleeping in a student lounge, a child selling water on a stoop, a child mowing lawns for money, a family cookout bbq... the list goes on. A KAREN, is calling out someone's outrageous racist behavior. It's another way of calling someone racist. So why are some calling it a slur or racist? Well, number 1, no one likes to be called a racist; especially if they are racists. Number 2, one woman on Twitter called it "class prejudice." That's a new one. Number 3, they feel that they are "victims" of the term and are cast in a bad light. I believe that is exactly what it is intended to do; cast that person and their outrageous behavior in a bad light and to publicly shame. MENTIONS IN PODCAST: Anchor.fm Home Page: https://anchor.fm/patrice-williams-marks Alicia Sanchez Gill (@aliciasanchez) Sister Outrider - https://sisteroutrider.wordpress.com/ Julie Bindel (@bindelj) Karen Fleshman, Esq. (@FleshmanKaren) Contact Me or Join My Newsletter list: https://authoruncut.com Want to suggest a future episode or send a comment? Email me at: mailbag at patricewilliams marks dot com --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/patrice-williams-marks/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/patrice-williams-marks/support
“Tech” premiered on April 30th, 2012. It was written by Jason Grote & Lakshmi Sundaram, and directed by Roxann Dawson. Sadly, viewership dipped back down even despite the surge from the previous week, amounting to a mere 5.34 million. Songs this week mainly featured non-Smash properties: we got an opening montage set to Cole Porter’s “Another Op’nin’, Another Show” sung by Christian Borle, and a cover of Rose Royce’s/Mary J. Blige’s song, “I’m Goin’ Down,” sung this time by Megan Hilty. The other two songs we heard were snippets from tech that we heard in previous episodes: “History is Made at Night” and “The 20th Century Fox Mambo.” It’s “another openin’ of another show” for the company of Bombshell. The company makes the journey from New York to Boston for the show’s pre-Broadway tryout. The Ensemblists are joyously rolling their roller bags through Grand Central Station, Linda the stage manager is ushering costume racks into the dressing rooms. With the first preview two days away, the show is… not ready for an audience. Derek is on the verge of having a stroke, with the show’s technical elements barely coming together. The number one rule of tech is: nobody has any time! Derek doesn’t have time to tell Rebecca that her leading man has quit the show for a TV pilot. But when she hears that Eileen is thinking of bringing Michael Swift back, Julia gives an ultimatum: she can have Michael or her on the production but not both. Rebecca admits to Karen that she’s nervous about performing Marilyn for an audience. For the first time Derek seems to direct, telling Rebecca to “use her star power” in her performance. But he uses and abuses his own star power, giving her shoulder massages that lead to a dressing room make out session. Ivy goes through her own emotional rollercoaster, starting with Derek saying he loves her before standing in for Marilyn, to being relegated to changing Rebecca’s gloves and listening to her and Derek make out from outside her dressing room. Jessica says “No civilians during tech. We’re in the middle of a war. They don’t get it.” Dev comes up anyway, and while out at a romantic dinner admits proposes to Karen. The following is the verbatim conversation between Dev and Karen after he pulls out the ring: DEV: “Will you marry me?” KAREN: “Marry you?” DEV: “Yeah, it’s not all that crazy, is it?” KAREN: “Of course not, I just don’t know what to say.” DEV: “Say yes.” KAREN: “I’m in tech.” DEV: “...is that the same thing as a yes?” KAREN: “I’m sorry, Dev. I’m just under so much pressure now. Tech is so crazy.” DEV: “It’s sounding more and more like a no.” KAREN: “It’s not a yes or a no. It’s I’m in tech.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
What makes Candiace’s relationship with her mother different from any other mother/daughter relationship is that she actually faces off with her regularly and steps to her. I think that’s why I care more about their situation. PREVIOUSLY ON… So funny. Candiace to Ashley: Would you be drinking this much if you were trying to get pregnant? They cut to Ashley and in the background Katie is nodding like YES. ACT 1 ROBYN AND GIZELLE GO SHOPPING FOR INTERIORS Gizelle is so screwed with this house. KATIE is the one having a ho down. They cut to her in a WILD wig. KATIE: I wanted to have you over. ROBYN: OH cool!! Katie: And have a party. Robyn: Oh!! Katie: And have a ho down. Robyn: Oh… They move to talk about Ashley. Robyn tells GIzelle that she was the one who brought it up at the dinner table. Gizelle refuses to get brought in. Ok gizelle, YOU are the reason that blow up happened at dinner. She inserts herself into anything. She’s messy. Gizelle claims she was just being a good friend to Ashley. Gizelle admits she is 4% responsible. CANDIACE GOES TO SEE CHRIS She asks if he wants an extra date night. He says no. He keeps saying it though so maybe he’s not kidding. I do get it though… Chris tells Candiace that she’s stubborn. Candiace says that doesn’t compare. Chris just said she interrupted him, she denies it. They flash back 5 seconds to her interrupting him. I’m starting to turn on Candiace. She’s such a spoiled brat that she has to have every conversation go the way SHE wants it to go. Candiace needs to learn words other than diminish. Candiace has a napkin on the ready always. Candiace resents the comparison between her marriage and her relationship with her mother. Candiace doesn’t want to admit any fault in her relationship with her mother. Her mother is awful, but she contributes to it as well. Candiaces shoves Chris away and screeches off. She has turned for me and is now a huge spoiled brat. ACT TWO KAREN AND RAY DO SOMETHING WITH MOTORCYCLES It this like when Vicki and Steve Lodge went on a motorcycle ride? Is this what we do with wives that don’t have full stories? Honestly she looks good on a motorcycle though. ASHLEY AND MONIQUE GO BABY SHOPPING This does not feel like an authentic relationship. Ashley and Monique discuss the dinner argument. Monique is shocked that Robyn brought it up at dinner. Monique calls Robyn pinky which is kind of amazing. Ashley wishes that Robyn had brought up the michael thing separately. That’s weak, Ashley would’ve not believed it no matter what. And if it’s not true, then what’s the big deal? Monique says she doesn’t want friction with Candiace now. CUT TO BLACK. Two days later. Chills!!! Robyn eating fruit with a plastic fork. She gets the headline. WENDYYY!!! They show the document. This montage is amazing!! Sooo dramatic! ACT THREE They do a weird rewind… Candiace is checking in for a pedicure, Ashley and Katie are shopping for the party, then they go BACK to the footage we already saw of people discovering the headline. So random… Robyn sucking on this fruit with a plastic fork while saying “ok to herself” is weird I LOVE that Karen’s hair guy is looking over her shoulder too. Wow, so Monique tells us that this happened at her rainbow party. The same party where Ashley is making a speech about losing their child and then they cry together. They flash to him at the party… did they cut to the camera that was run by the camera man?? Because the document said “Flirtatious looks.” On facetime, Monique tells Candiace that she’s going to continue to encourage Ashley during this time. Candiace listens patiently and says… Candiace: Well that’s really sisterly of you to encourage someone who dragged you within an inch of your life last year. Cut to costume shop, weird split screens of them shopping for hats and vests. Ashley: “I’m going to be ovulating soon.” Ashley: The sunday after pride, we had sex! Karen: IT’s hard because he’s older. Then Ashley says he’s like a stallion. So gross… Gizelle calls Ashley about the article. AShley tries to play it off. Ashley: We had a prelimenary case and the judge through it out. Ashley said that wasn’t new information. Ashley said she had a breakdown when she heard. “It’s troubling.” With her weird smile. Ashley: I’m not worried about it. Gizelle: OH wow…. AShley ends the call. She tells Katie that she sees a connection between the Robyn/Candiace dinner penis sucking stuff and then this news coming out. She’s reaaaching. ACT FOUR It must be a rule that the more annoying the housewife is, the cuter their kids are. Monique’s kids are so cute. And Jagger on RHOBH is also totally adorable despite his mother being dorit. Ewww pic of Chris and Monique in the tub up in their room. That’s so tacky. So they had someone take their pic while they wer ein the tub? NO ONE CARES ABOUT MONIQUE BASANET, TALK ABOUT THE SCANDAL!!! Monique tries to school Candiace on her temper tantrum. Candiace: I don’t want the stuff with my mom to spill over into my marriage. Monique: Well it’s spilling into your friendship! Laughter… This must’ve been filmed before that news broke because they’re not talking about it. Monique is anoying, she laughs after everything. GIZELLE AND ASHLEY DRIVING TO THE HO DOWN Gizelle apologizes for bringing up the stuff. It’s interesting that Gizelle did this in the car instaed of in front of other people. I wonder if that was on purpose. Ashley looks really nice and fresh. Is it a bad thing that she bounces back so quickly? ACT FIVE Gizelle tries to get Ashley to talk about the fight in the car. Ashley says they’re stronger than ever. Gizelle says she wanted to punch her ex husband in the face, and Gizelle says, ‘there’s that, and then there’s having to go through it publicly.” Ashley: Yes I’m sure. ...no ashley, she’s talking about you!! ASHELY AND GIZELLE ARRIVE AT THE HO DOWN Monique and Robyn think that there’s a pattern with michael. We meet Katie’s boyfriend who looks like the weird rehead viking guy from southern charm new orleans. Robyn apologizes to Ashley for saying it was a touchy issue and she shouldn’t have said anything. Katie: There is a sunny hill, where the vortex is. Karen: Not the vortex honey. Katie does a weird toast. Why is anything called the vortex here?! It’s so not a farm word. Candiace apologizes to the table. Gizelle tells her to apologize to Ashley. ACT SIX Gizelle: The apology needs to go to that end of the table. CANDIACE: Oh, that’s a conversation that will happen separately, but I was also told by YOU that Ashley didn’t want to speak to me again. Gizelle: She did share that with me…. You literally cannot tell candiance ANYTHING without her getting hyper defensive. Ashley brings up what’s been in the news. AShley says she can’t share with everyone whats going on, but she encourages everyone to wait for the truth. Robyn brings up how messy Ashley has been in the past. Cue Messy Ashley montage. So amazing. Karen says she’s been in this seat before so she wishes ashley the best. Gizelle brings up that Karen was high fiving it. WOW gizelle so messy butttt she is calling out hypocrisy when she sees it. Now Ashley gets super defensive and comes for Karen. Karen turns to Gizelle, “You need to be slapped too.” Karen is annoyed that Gizelle brought Ashey back intot he house. AShley defends she would’ve come back anyway. Monique does a funny rundown Katie suggests that candiace apologie for throwing knives around. Candiace says she does want to be friends with Ashley, but Ashley says she shouldn’t have come after her for baby stuff. Candiace said she’s not going to ignore signs that look and smell like BS. Everyone turns on Candiace and says that everyone has judged everyone else so why are tehy all piling up on her? Everyone gets up to leave. Karen asks Ashley if she’s ok? Ashley says she heard Karen said stuff too after she left. Ashley is not wrong. They get into it, Karen goes IN on Ashley. ACT SEVEN Karen and Monique take Candiace inside. Monique wishes that Candiace woudl listen. Candiace doesn’t like that Monique was sticking up for Ashley. They egt into a screaming match. Monique says she will drag cAndiace. I believe her. Candiace needs to realize that people have done the same shit, but people have apologized and moved on and grown from them. You can’t repeat people’s PAST mistakes that they’ve moved on from and be like YOU DID IT TOO!! Monique apologizes to Candiace and gets emotional. Candiace walks away and tells Monique to leave her alone. Candiace realizes she needs to turn this around with everyone.
Download PDF Welcome to Larisa English Club #23 What’s in The News? Keeping Waters Clean in America! Speaking Practice. Talking about The Weather! English Grammar. Compare “Modal Verbs of Probability” to Adverbs. What’s in The News? Keeping Waters Clean in America The Harpster brothers—Abe, Aaron, and Andy—own Evergreen Farms, one of the largest dairy operations in Pennsylvania: 2,700 milking cows on 6,500 acres along with fields of grass, corn, and alfalfa to feed them. Their other claim to fame is the farm’s pristine Spruce Creek, where presidents from Eisenhower to Carter and other notables including the owner of the Chicago Cubs and Grammy Award-winning singers have come to fish for rainbow trout. “We live here, drink the water here, and breathe the air here, and try to do the best for our people, our cows, and our land. We expect to pass this farm down through the generations of our families,” explains Andrew Harpster. “I may not be a scientist, but I’ve learned enough to know that everything is connected,” he adds. “If we don’t do it right, for example, the manure we spread on our corn fields can run off into Spruce Creek, damaging our trout habitat, and from there into the Juniata River, which flows into the Susquehanna and then 200 miles downstream into the Chesapeake Bay.” Speaking Practice. Talking about The Weather! Karen: Brrrr! I’m cold. I thought it was supposed to get warmer today. Ed: Yeah, I thought so, too. That’s what the weatherman said. Karen: It must be the wind that makes it so cold. I’m freezing! Ed: Me, too. Let’s go inside. Karen: O.K. It’s no fun standing out here, even if the sun is shining. English Grammar. Compare “Modal Verbs of Probability” to Adverbs. Generally, when we use “Present Perfect” exact time references are not used or are not important. Understanding the “Present Perfect” is a must to fully understand “Modals of Probability” in the past. However, with a combination of “Modals” and “Present Perfect”, we can refer to specific time in the past as speculation. In other words, we sometimes use “Modals of Probability” with “Present Perfect” to refer to a possible fact in the past without being absolutely positive the event took place. In other words, we “Speculate, Assume or Guess” at what occurred in the past. Examples might be: May have “May’ve”, Might have “Might’ve”, Could have “Could’ve”. These are all examples of an event in the past that we are not absolutely sure about. “May”, “might” and “could” in the following examples are fully interchangeable. “She might have worked yesterday, I am not sure”. “She may have worked yesterday, I am not sure”. “She could have worked yesterday, I am not sure”. In all three examples, these three Modal verbs have the same meaning. Compare to the adverbs “Maybe and Possibly” with past simple. One simple method that can be used to learn this is “Grammar Bridging”. To “Grammar Bridge” is when we study a higher level grammar element using a comparison in grammar at a lower level. Learn more here https://larisaenglishclub.com/pdf-resources/larisa-english-club-23-pdf-version/
Karen recently was a presenter at a large industry conference, and it inspired her and Cadie to want to discuss how to get the most out of conferences, trade-shows, expos, and meet-ups. Karen is the "life of a conference" and Cadie tends to be the listener and "wallflower," learn how both of these different types of conference attendees prepares, manages time, retains information, implements new ideas, and networks at these functions. These events can be expensive and usually involves travel costs and time away from work. Are they really worth all the capital and time investment? What makes a good conference? What makes a bad one? What is the value of being a presenter? And, what are the best techniques to make meaningful connections during and after the big event? So relax, sit back, pour yourself a glass of your favorite wine (or coffee, tea, or soda) and enjoy the show. Learn more about Karen Simmons & Cadie Gaut Sponsors: Karen C. Simmons, P.C. Payroll Vault - Mobile & Baldwin Counties About Cheers To Business Cheers To Business is a seriously casual business and entrepreneur podcast that discusses starting, running, refining and growing your company, or excelling at your current job with two or your soon-to-be friends - over a glass of wine. Please subscribe, review and rate Cheers To Business on iTunes, SoundCloud & Overcast. You can contact and stay connected with us by LIKING our Cheers To Business Facebook page. Thanks for listening and as always, CHEERS to you! FULL SHOW TRANSCRIPT: Karen: Hey everybody. Welcome to our third episode. Today, we're gonna be talking about conferences. Are they worth going? Are they worth the investment? What do you take away and what can you use? I'm Karen and I'm a CPA, entrepreneur, with big ideas, and I'm the mom. Cadie: I'm Cadie. I'm a payroll specialist, business owner, and detail-oriented person that makes things happen, and I'm the daughter. Welcome to Cheers to Business. There's a ton of knowledge out there that you can find online, so what's the point of really even going to conferences? Karen: The investment that I've seen in the past, and they're not all good, so you have to find the right one, but a lot of what I take away from it is actually talking to my peers. People that are going through the same things that I'm going through, have experienced the same things, or have already worked through things that I'm trying to get through now. By actually talking with someone and building a connection with people from around the country, I think it's easier to me than reading a book where that person may not have even ever experienced what you're going through. Cadie: I think the real-life scenarios, a lot of times books, it can be kinda "Here's how to do something." Whereas when you meet those people at conferences, it's more of a, "Hey, here's how I handled that situation." Karen: Yeah. A lot of times in books I think it's so, to me, Mary Poppins, that this is the way it always works and you do one, two, three. That's not life. Whereas if you get in front of a person making eye contact and sharing experiences, that's when some of the truth comes out of, "Well, yeah, we've kinda really screwed that up, but this is how we learned to do it a different way." Cadie: If you had your pick of a conference, would it be industry-specific or how do you pick a conference? There's so many. Karen: If I'm going to learn, then I want to go to an educational, you know, about my software, about the industry, whether it's tax or employee benefits, mainly tax, especially when you have new tax laws come out, you want to be able to find out what's going on. Not only that, it's other people's interpretations. Cadie: Do you go to conferences to not learn? Because you said if I go to a conference to learn, so that's why I asked that question. Karen: Well, that was a Freudian moment because sometimes conferences can be fun and there's nothing wrong, I think, with taking a business trip to a city you've always wanted to go to but haven't been to yet. But in your question, it was a two-fold question. You said which kinda conference is best and I think it is what's your end goal? What are you trying to take away and you need to have that figured out before you go so you don't waste your money. Because if you're going to learn, that's a different conference than going to sell or be sold, for example, trade shows. Cadie: Expos. Karen: Expos, everyone there is trying to sell, you know it when you walk in the door. Expectations, what do you expect to get out of a conference? What do you expect to give? You can't just take. You know, you gotta be willing to go up and shake people's hands and say, "Hey, my name's so and so. I do what you do." If not, you're not gonna get a lot of feedback. Wallflowers. People can be wallflowers anywhere, but if you're a wallflower at somewhere that you wanna learn, you're not gonna take as much away. Cadie: Well, I think, you know, the stereotypical conference, you imagine this big room, everybody's just sitting there, and there's one presenter or you'll have several presenters throughout the day. That's kinda what I initially thought conferences were. And then you start going and you realize, no, it's more than just gaining the knowledge and listening to someone stand up there and talk for an hour. Karen: I think to me, the presenters, there's a couple different kinds. There's one that's trying to educate you and there's a kind that's trying to sell you. All right. So you have to make a choice when you walk in the door. If you know which kind you're going to, and lot of times you do because you can tell by the company they work for, so you've got to choose to take the high points and know when you go in that I'm not here to buy, but I wanna hear how this person got to this place knowing what they know and what can I take away from it. At that point, it's about you. It's about me. You know, what can I learn to take back. The other kind as far as the educational ones, if it's somebody...say, take a doctor's conference. If you have a surgery conference, you gotta master surgeon up there, somebody is telling them how they did the procedure. That's totally different than what I did at a conference a week ago was presenting to inform the people that I want to buy my product. I was educating them, but it's because I want them to buy my product. Cadie: So you were selling but it wasn't blatantly selling, I guess. Karen: No, it's probably pretty blatant. Cadie: Use my business. Karen: Use my business. Why? Because I know about my business and I can help you do better at something that you don't do. Cadie: And it will benefit you. That's the key. Karen: Value. It's no different than any other show we've done it, and probably any other will do in the future. It's about the value that's given. Now, there's conferences I haven't gone back to. There's one in particular. Now, I take a staff member and we go every year and we've been...this will be the sixth year in a row. Its attacks in software, because they throw it all in there. I know they're trying to sell me. I know how to say no. Cadie: I know which conference you're talking about, it's quite expensive. So what makes it so valuable? Karen: I think sometimes not just the presenters, but the round tables. When you do round tables, and what that is in case anybody's not sure or hasn't been to conferences, is that at night, your peers, you have different tables with different topics on them. Sometimes you fight like a Black Friday sale to sit at the table you want to because that particular item may be so popular. For example, one year, it was converting from one software to another. They were making us convert to a higher software. Everybody wanted in on that because we all wanted to know how to do it. But that's when you have one expert at the table, but you and your peers are sitting around asking questions. There's no way that's feasible that you will ever ask the right questions. Cadie: So I think that's important is when you do go to a conference, specifically one that's over multiple days, it's so easy once the conference is over, the introvert in me, I just wanna go back to my hotel room and decompress because of the mental energy that's taken place that whole entire day. But that's not where business happens. Business happens, you know, if you're there to network and connect, especially if it's industry specific, you need to form connections with those people who are in your industry, you know, especially if they're in a different area because it's someone to brainstorm with. Karen: Why don't you tell them the game we play at conferences when we go together? Do you remember? Cadie: Yes. Karen: Tell it. Cadie: I don't like that game. Karen: I love that game. Cadie: So basically, what we do is she picks out someone, "Hey, go talk to this person." And so then... Karen: And, of course, she does it to me, but we pick out the most unlikely talkable person ever, ever at the conference, the least likely person to be able to have a conversation with. Usually, that person ends up being the most interesting person you've ever met in your whole entire life. But why do it? One, because get out and talk to somebody. Don't follow behind me with your clipboard. Get out there and talk and learn and do it without me necessarily. Cadie: It can be overwhelming. Conferences are huge and there are so many people and it can be overwhelming. I have been a wallflower so many times where I just, "Let me stand back, just wait for the conference to begin. I don't wanna talk to anyone. I'm just here to learn." But to kinda help bypass that, I just usually pick out one person. Let me just get to know this one person really well and then that's my priority for the day and that kinda helps me, makes me feel better. Karen: That's a great practice. That is a fantastic practice. You know, and then it depends on personalities. I'll probably go up to 10 people and say, "Hey, my name's Karen and I'm from Alabama." Cadie: You're drawing enough attention that people are coming up to you, which is not a bad thing. We have two different approaches. Karen: Yeah, and at that last conference when you were sitting in the audience, when you were doing the signal for "wrap it up" while I was presenting, why did that lady come up to me afterwards and say, "Your daughter said you're crazy?" Cadie: I have no comment. Karen: Yeah, I heard it, but that's okay. I'm okay being the way I am and that's why you and the listeners should be okay the way that you are. It doesn't matter. It's just different personality. But what do you wanna get out of it? Sometimes you just gotta suck it up to do it a little different way to get what you want. Cadie, do you think you could ever be a presenter at a conference? Cadie: If you weren't there. Karen: That's an honest answer. Cadie: Just because you make me nervous. You're intimidating. It's like taking your driver's test. Karen: But I'm just trying to help you. Cadie: I would love to present, if it's a topic that I feel comfortable with. Karen: But say you have presented, you've been a speaker at the University of South Alabama, you're with the Junior League program with... Cadie: I'm not with Junior League. Karen: Junior Junior league. What is it? Cadie: No. Karen: Didn't you do something at Davidson High School. Cadie: Yeah. Karen: What was it? Cadie: Junior Achievement. Karen: See, Junior...all right. But you got up in front of people. You do it all the time. You do it at Southwest Mobile Chamber of Commerce. Cadie: Two people came to that one. Karen: You've done it at others with the supporting star student. You've done it with different things. Cadie: No, in the moment, I'm fine. The anxiety leading up to it, I feel like I'm having a heart attack. But once I'm up there, I'm fine. Karen: Right. See, I fall apart afterwards. Cadie: Okay. Well, to each their own. Cheers. Karen: Cheers. Cadie: So I would want to be a presenter, and you've been a presenter many times before. What do you get out of it, being a presenter? Karen: It depends on the message I'm trying to get across. If I'm trying to inform, like talking at a Chamber of Commerce, then it cannot be articulate enough to be able to get my point across more slowly, informative, where they understand what I'm saying. Versus if I'm trying to sell something and talk somebody into something, it takes on a little different facet. I think I do, because I am the big dreamer, big ideas type that I sometimes squirrel and I go off a little bit because I cannot go by a script. It drives me insane. I get so nervous. I can't even talk. Cadie: With new businesses trying to grow that brand, be involved in the community, it is a lot of who knows who. So how do you go about doing that? Karen: You know, it depends on if you're in your community or if you're at a conference. You know, at a conference, if it's a Payroll Vault conference, for example, then everybody knows what you do. Then you're talking about processes. How do you make this happen? Cadie: The nitty-gritty. Karen: The nitty-gritty. If you're at a general, you know, the tax and accounting software conference that I go to, there are 1,600 CPAs and their staff at one of the Gaylord Hotels. That's a lot of people. Then it's different. You have to search out the right fit for you and your peers. If you're doing something at your community, then they know who you are. They know what you're supposed to know. And a lot of times, they expect you to know more than you do know. So it's finding the right target locally of what they need to hear and wanna hear because sometimes they're not the same thing. Cadie: So when I travel to these fancy Gaylord Hotels, is that a business expense that I can write off, CPA? Karen: I'm getting a CPE. I've gotta have continuing education. Yes, it is a business expense. I'm learning for my business. Now, let's say you go to the Gaylord in Orlando and you go to Disney World or Walt Disney, the tickets to that are not deductible. Cadie: Okay. Karen: Balance. Cadie: You know, a lot of networking happens at the bar afterwards. And what about those drinks? Can I write those off, meals and entertainment? Karen: Well, meals and entertainment, only half deductible. But, you know, if you're talking about your kids and grandkids, just be reasonable with it. But just remember that if you take a friend or spouse or a non-spouse that their airplane ride is not deductible, but if you're staying in the same hotel room, you can write off your hotel room. Cadie, you've been going with me to conferences and then it seemed kinda weird when you started going out to conferences without me. I think you even texted me from an airport. It feels weird to be without you in an airport. It wasn't that? Cadie: You texted me, "I miss you." Karen: Oh, well, whatever which way it started. But anyway, what do you take away from them now? Why do you keep going? Cadie: I think it's easy to get caught up in the online world. You know, I've got people that I follow on Instagram that I look up to and I feel like I'm friends with them but I've never actually met them and it's easy to just keep doing that. I can find webinars online all day long. However, going to a conference, you're able to really sit and connect with people. You cannot be a genuine connection and I'm a big believer in energy and vibes and sitting with someone after the conference talking about what we just learned over drinks, and then later connecting with them online to stay connected. I think that's just so much more valuable. Karen: Well, everybody looks perfect on social media except the ones who want to make money from not being perfect. So, you know, I take a lot away, what you said, from that, but also what do you learn about how to put these things in place once you get back? Cadie: Oh, that's a good point because it's so easy to just go to a conference and you're taking all these notes page after page and you're so motivated. And let's say you get home on a Saturday, well, by the time Monday rolls around and the team asks you, "How was your trip?" You're just, "Oh, it was good." You know, and it's almost like you lose that momentum. Or you've taken so much back that you don't even know where to start. It's like when you go to the grocery store and you buy $200 worth of groceries and then you stop at Taco Bell on the way home you. So when you go to a conference, it's so important to have that idea of what am I going to take out of this? And even if it's just three tactical items to implement when you get home. Karen: Can I tell you a trick I do? Cadie: Of course. Karen: Thank you. I like 10 things. Cadie: Ten? Karen: Ten, yes. Cadie: No, too many. I disagree. Karen: No, minor. Not all of them are major. But, for example, you know, alphabetize something like this or change the routing sheet up like that or whatever. But if you take 10, but you have one piece of paper, if you have that notebook that you have, leave that one sheet clean and every time you run across something that...and go ahead and put 1, 2, 3, 4 through 10, and every time you're in one of those classes or talking with somebody and you go, "Oh, that's a take home." Go to that front page and write about...and don't worry about what's the number one. Number one is just your starting point. Number 10 is not the worst, it's just where you ended up. So take those ideas. When you have those aha moments, write that moment down. You've got the rest of the notes to follow back up later. You have the information to follow up. Cadie: I will agree with you to take notes, like, actually physically, old school write. When you have your laptop taking notes, one, you're almost limited to writing vertically. Whereas when you are having those aha moments, there's nothing better than a piece of notepaper to really just kinda go crazy with your notes. Karen: You know, when I take my pencil and I underline it three times because I mean it's really important to me, that's a lot different than going and finding the underline thing in Word. You know, I can't make that happen, but I'm older. Cadie: I mean the computer is the distraction. That's a big thing. It's just when you're at a conference, stay focused on why you were there. You're investing your money. Karen: You know, and sometimes when you're taking notes, I have my own system of how big an explanation point is. Something's really important to me, it's a big explanation. So thing's just eh, okay, just a little one. It's the little things. Cadie: Tidbit for the day. Karen: One of them. So today, we've talked about conferences, good, bad, educational, trade shows, why do it, where do you go? We've also talked about some tax deductions and, you know, how this can work in your favor, but whatever you do, and whatever you decide, please save your receipts. Y'all, thank you so much for listening and being here with us today. I'm Karen. Cadie: I'm Cadie. Please be sure to subscribe to "Cheers to Business" podcast on iTunes or anywhere else that you get your podcast. Visit our Facebook and be sure to give us a like. And if you have any questions or topics you'd like us to discuss, shoot us an email from the website cheerstobusiness.com.
Welcome the first Cheers To Business podcast! In this episode, you'll meet the show's hosts, Karen Simmons (Serial Entrepreneur, CPA, Big Thinker, and The Mom) and Cadie Gaut (Business Owner, Payroll Rock Star, wife and mom, and The Daughter). Karen and Cadie share their personal career and business journies, work & life balance experiences, their ups and downs of collaboration & butting heads, and insights on starting a business from scratch or growing the one you already have. So join them with your favorite glass of wine (unless your driving), or beverage of choice, and enjoy the show. Learn more about Karen Simmons & Cadie Gaut Sponsors: Karen C. Simmons, P.C. Payroll Vault - Mobile & Baldwin Counties About Cheers To Business Cheers To Business is a seriously casual business and entrepreneur podcast that discusses starting, running, refining and growing your company, or excelling at your current job with two or your soon-to-be friends - over a glass of wine. Please subscribe, review and rate Cheers To Business on iTunes, SoundCloud & Overcast. You can contact and stay connected with us by LIKING our Cheers To Business Facebook page. Thanks for listening and as always, CHEERS to you! Full Show Transcription: Karen: Hey everybody, welcome to "Cheers to Business." I'm Karen Simmons and I'm a certified public accountant. I'm coming up on my 23rd tax season. My firm is KCS CPA group and I have a wonderful team of 13 people. I'm also involved in some other businesses. Cadie and I started Payroll Vault together, which now she owns. And then my brother and I have a manufacturing company, Marine Exhaust Systems of Alabama, and I'm having the best time of my 52 years right now. Cadie: I'm Cadie. I'm the daughter of the duo. And like she said, I own Payroll Vault now and I have a team of five. And then I also have two children, 10 and almost 3, and a husband. And just balancing it all. Trying to. Karen: We're here to talk to you about business, life, and having fun in the process. Cadie, tell a little bit about why we're here and what got us here. Cadie: Well, this is our first episode, so we're really just trying to lay out how we got here, who we are. I'm the daughter. Karen: I'm the mom. Cadie: Karen's my mother, and while we're very successful together in business, I think our personal has kinda of struggled, but that's because of the balance that we give to each other. You know, Karen's kinda just go-getter, the dreamer, head in the clouds, taking action, whereas I'm the, "Okay, let's slow down. Think about this. What can go wrong? How can we get where we need to be?" Karen: Yeah. I'm a very type A personality and if I see something, I go for it. Now, you know, Mama had me tested so you gotta have a little bit to you to be able to get going and I think Cadie's got that. She's got the gumption, she's got the smarts, and it's a good balance. While we made butt heads, you know, being so different, we're really a lot alike and we work well in business. Cadie: I think that growing up, kinda, I don't want to say underneath your shadow, but walking behind you with my notepad taking notes, I've kinda had the observer to see, "All right, there she is marching through the room. Let me take a look at what else is all going around." So that kinda gives me....That's what I grew up saying is, "Let's look at the whole picture," whereas you were just, "There's my end goal, what do I have to do to get there?" Karen: I think that comes from a lot in history, you know, growing up not having very much of anything, I knew that education and going and getting it myself was the only way it was gonna happen. Now I think what God's put in my life is you to be able to be there with me on this journey and coming up and being able to see those things. Cadie: So I know....Okay, so let's back up. I know a lot of people, you know, they have a backstory and you say you grew up without a lot, so I mean, go into that just to tell people because I don't think a lot of people do know. Karen: Well, growing up, you know, we had no air condition or heat, and while we lived in a great place, you know, it was a struggle. It was a constant struggle and the only way to make money was whatever you could find. Now, for being personally, I started a general ledger at 12 when Dad had a fiberglass business and would leave me with grown men picking fiberglass. Well, I told them I required 10% and the only way to make sure I would get my money was I kept the books. And that's how I got started and knew that education was my only way out. Cadie: Karen, a lot of times people have ideas for businesses or they wanna start a business, but often, you know, they are in their day job 8:00 to 5:00, Monday through Friday. You know, when you left the larger CPA firm, I guess what was going through your head was there, "Can I do this? Will I fail?" All those variables, kinda what was at the point where you decided, I can do this and I will do this? Karen: All of that went through my head. It was scary. There's a lot of faith put into this, you know, in my head and in my heart. Leaving the security is a very scary thing. For me, when I wasn't happy and I started to take it home and it was affecting my family, it became a very personal matter. I think the signs started coming up that, you know, this was the right thing to do and that's what led me to just give it all and take the chance. And then so, I went home to your dad and I said, "Hey, I wanna open up my own CPA firm." And he went, "Okay." So, I gotta put up our house to do it. And he said, "Okay." Now, that's a lot of faith in that. And I was right. But, you know, right after I decided to go out on my own after some debts of getting out of the whole practice and house repairs coming out of pocket, you know, we were 46 and 52 years old and had to start financially over again. Cadie: So, was that the low point? I mean, as far as, you know, owning a business and even life, in general, is a rollercoaster, it's nothing but ups and downs. So was that kinda the low point where you....did you ever doubt yourself? Did I do the right thing by leaving? Karen: Yes, every day. I think it's human nature to do that, and it's very emotional to talk about because it was hard wondering when I'm gonna get a paycheck. I was used to get a paycheck, 8:00 to 5:00, you get a paycheck. There was no paycheck. You know, I started with 4 people and now we're to a team of 13, and they have to get paid before you do. So, how are you gonna eat? And so, you know, it is a struggle, you know. Then I came home to him one day and I said, "Hey honey, I want to open up a payroll company." Cadie: Payroll Vault is the payroll company that we started together and then I took over. We were at a tax conference. Where were we? Maryland, Maine, somewhere? Karen: I don't know. Cadie: We were at a bar. We always find an Irish pub whenever we travel. And she wrote on a napkin, she just started writing, and then next thing I know I see the word "payroll." Well, I was doing payroll through the CPA firm and she said... Karen: You've been doing payroll since you were 14. Cadie: ..."Let's start a payroll company." And I'm like, "Oh boy, here she goes, another business, just adding, adding to the list." And I grew up watching my mom, you know, work in a business, then work on a business, and it was her life. And so I never wanted to do that. I wanted the 8:00 to 5:00 job, you know, go to work, then go home, and work is over. Then it's kids time. I wanted that separation. The thing is, that separation is on someone else's terms. And that's the beautiful thing about owning a business is you're in control. You know, if it's 12:00 and I need to go pick up my kids, that flexibility is there. And that's kinda my goal in business is to pass that on to my team. So, offering a flexible schedule, you know, flexible PTO, personal time off, all of that. Karen: But it's hard when you first started and you're growing it because you sometimes you can't leave. Cadie: Oh, I mean in the beginning, no, there's no flexibility. I mean, how many times have we slept at the office? We don't go home. Karen: I think you even slept there more than I have. I would text her at...all of a sudden, I get it 11:00 at night and she's still at the office. Cadie: And I think that's the biggest variable if you're even thinking about going into business is do you have the grit to just get the job done no matter what it takes? I think that's the biggest thing that sets people apart from, you know, just wanting the standard job, 8:00 to 5:00, versus owning a business because it is 24/7. But it's like a baby, you don't resent it, you know, it may keep you up all night... Karen: Sometimes you do. I do, sometimes. Cadie: ...Well, I mean it was like a newborn. It may keep you up at night sometimes, but you still love it and you're still gonna do what... Karen: You love it but you don't necessarily like it when it won't stop screaming at 2:00 in the morning. Cadie: So, this is where I...I think I'm more maternal than you are. I mean you weren't a bad mom but... Karen: I sucked, and you know it. I was not there. Cadie: So, in middle school, all these other kids had like hand-cut apples and homemade bread and... Karen: Oh, my God. If I have to hear about the peanut butter and the apples one more time... Cadie: This one mom cut the center out of a apple and stuff... Karen: I heard about it all the time. Cadie: Anyways, but she asked me, she was like, "So we're gonna New York this summer." I was like, "Yeah, we are." She said, "Do you want hand-cut apples or do you want a New York trip?" And so that's when it clicked, you know... Karen: It went further. It went further. I said, "How do you like that four-wheeler you got for Christmas?" You said, "Huh?" I said, "Well, it's not paid for, so it's got to go back if you leave this private school." Cadie: So that's the bit...I'm glad you bring that up though, because now I'm able to pass that on to my kids. You know, my daughter knows if she's going on a field trip and she wants to visit the gift shop, it's up to her to take her money. So the week before, she's asking me what chores can she do to make some money? You know, sticking postage on the envelope that way... Karen: I am so proud of you right at this moment right now. Cadie: Well, it's just, no parent is perfect. But you learn from your parents of what... Karen: And their mistakes. Cadie: Can I finish my sentence? Karen: Yes, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Cadie: Good grief. So you, you know, not every parent is perfect, but you learn from one generation to the next. And it's the same with employees. I mean, the first person that we had working for Payroll Vault, like things got rough, but I learned from that, and you learn with every experience. Karen: I am still learning, every day. Cadie: Oh gosh, you never stop learning about your industry, about how to handle situations, how to... Karen: People and personalities, drama. What else comes into business? I think drama's the... Cadie: What? You're extra feisty today. Karen: I am. I'm excited about this, and I'm excited...you know, I get very passionate and... Cadie: Obviously. Karen: I do because it's so much fun and it can be so much fun, but it's so hard. But if it were easy, the cliché, you know, if it was easy, everybody would be doing it, but you nailed it. You have to give it your all. Cadie: And you have to find people. You have to find people to talk with about what you're going through because it will....you can go crazy. You literally can lose your mind in business. Karen: Cry on the way home sometimes. Just saying. A friend of mine did that. But it does. Sometimes you cry on the way home because it gets so much and there's so many people depending on you. But, you know, if we can pass on just a little bit...You said, you know, going from generation to generation, going from experienced employer to employee, you know, one thing I'm taking away from this conversation right now that's sticking in my craw is that if you don't have the grit, it's okay. You have a great idea, you're gonna go in business. If you don't have what it takes, find those people who have the grit. Don't try to do everything yourself. You know, we were able to be a team. You know, sometimes outside of work, we butt heads. In work, we feed off each other, and in business, and is a great balance. But find that person or those people...you know, my biggest client, the smartest thing about him is he surrounds himself with smart people. Cadie: I think that goes for any successful person, really. Karen: Totally agree. Cadie: And, again, find your people. So, just very quickly, I'm just curious, what is your, like, highest point in your career so far? The moment that you think like, this is awesome. I made it. Karen: You buying me out of Payroll Vault. Cadie: Oh. Karen: That's a deep down honest. I felt like mission accomplished and you're gonna be okay and your babies are gonna be okay. Watching a business grow...now, it's got extra emotional with you, but it's no different than seeing new clients come and they build these things, and you help them build these things. That is the most rewarding thing in the world, it's not about a dollar. It's about helping build something and building these businesses and then all of a sudden people are eating and able to feed their families because you created something. That's just fun.
On this episode, Karen and Cadie talk about different ways to start a business, specifically looking at, buying into, and opening into a franchise. Karen and Cadie have opened Payroll Vault, a payroll and outsourced HR service franchise, and have a lot to say about the world of the franchise business. What exactly is a franchise are the pros and cons? Where does one find franchise opportunities? What is the best way to start the search and purchasing process? Learn more about Karen Simmons & Cadie Gaut Sponsors: Karen C. Simmons, P.C. Payroll Vault - Mobile & Baldwin Counties About Cheers To Business Cheers To Business is a seriously casual business and entrepreneur podcast that discusses starting, running, refining and growing your company, or excelling at your current job with two or your soon-to-be friends - over a glass of wine. Please subscribe, review and rate Cheers To Business on iTunes, SoundCloud & Overcast. You can contact and stay connected with us by LIKING our Cheers To Business Facebook page. Thanks for listening and as always, CHEERS to you! Full Show Transcript: Karen: Hey, welcome to today's show. This is our second episode, we're really excited. And today, we're gonna be talking about the different ways to start a business. And one is start your own. Two, you can buy an existing. Three, open a franchise. And that's what we're gonna talk about today. I'm Karen. I'm a CPA, entrepreneur with big ideas, and I'm The Mom. Cadie: I'm Cadie. I'm a payroll specialist, business owner, and detail-oriented person that makes things happen, and I'm the daughter. Welcome to "Cheers to Business Karen: Cadie, you currently own a franchise. What do you see as the pros and cons in your experience? Cadie: Well, I think the first thing I want to touch on is what a franchise is. I think there's a big misconception. Franchises are independently owned and operated businesses. Karen: So you own your own company, basically. Cadie: Yes. You own your own company, you have an agreement with a brand that may be national, but as far as in your local district, you're making the decisions, you're doing the staffing. It's really your own entity. Karen: A lot of people are under the misconception that they tell you everything to do. Cadie: Well, I mean some brands have more flexibility, others are more strict, and I think that's an important thing to look into when you are going into the franchise, you know, talk to other owners who currently are doing business with that brand. People who've owned one maybe in the past, and also the agreement that you're signing up with that franchise. Karen: You know, for example, in the CPA firm, it was me and my team, and so we knew our own rules. I think I found in the CPA firm in that structure, CPAs don't make money doing payrolls. Well, when you have over 120 of them...I knew I could open up a payroll company, but I didn't want to reinvent the wheel. Cadie: I was doing those payrolls. Thank you very much. Karen: Yes, you were. You did the majority of those payrolls. And did them very well, by the way. Cadie: But not efficiently. And that's... Karen: Correct. Cadie: That's the key, is I have this much work to do, how can I do it as fast as possible and as accurate as possible? And that's where a franchise really steps in, because they know how to do it. Karen: They've already tested everything. And I think, you know, we researched, both of us went and, you know, we're researching trying to see where the perfect platform was and that's where Payroll Vault came in and you've taken it and just run like a rockstar. Now, tell about the beginning there when we were thinking about doing this. What do you remember? What comes to mind the foremost of what our concerns were or why, yes, go. Besides being the efficiencies? Cadie: I think one of the most important things kinda when you're getting started is the brand. You know, when people create their own brand, their own logo, the name, the colors, you get very emotionally attached to that. And that's one thing almost when you step into a franchise is you have to learn to connect with that brand because it's not something that you necessarily invented or created. Karen: But it's been tested. So that's a plus. Cadie: Well, I mean from getting everything started by getting a franchise, they give you the playbook. You're not writing the playbook, and you have to look inside yourself and know whether or not you're the type of person who can follow a playbook or do you need to be the one inventing it and, and you know, maybe running into brick wall? Karen: And I think that is the personality type. However, you know, depending on what you want to do, I think you've gotta be able to step back, talk to the right people, do the research to see which model. I've done both. That's because for this situation, that worked, for this situation, the other worked. Cadie: And it's not a guarantee. I mean, just because the franchise company is telling you what to do, are you listening to them? Are you listening to other franchise owners? It's important...I think that there's a middle ground, you know, especially if the franchise gives you the flexibility. You've gotta really play with what works in your market. Karen: I think you gotta have the personality too to the to accept that your way is not always best. Cadie: Amen. Karen: We always go in and...I'm so smart. I mean, I have the t-shirt. It says... Cadie: I'll be smarter if you're less stupid, or something. Karen: No, I'd be nice if you were smart, but that wasn't the one I was talking about. Cadie: Okay. Sorry. There were so many. Karen: I was talking...the one I wore at conference last week. Cadie: While you were doing your presentation. Karen: Yeah, I wore it on purpose. It's not that I'm bossy, it's that I have better ideas. And I was making a statement. I actually had a suit to wear to that, but that one was more appropriate at a franchise conference where I was actually speaking at and she was there as the owner. So... Cadie: Back on track. Karen: Okay, back on track. We need the bill. So franchises. You'd be amazed at what places are franchises and what aren't. Cadie, what's some of the ones you've learned over the past three years? Cadie: McDonald's a franchise. Karen: Newk's. Karen: Whataburger. Karen: AT&T stores. Cadie: Jani-King [SP]. Karen: Moe's [SP]. Cadie: Huntington Learning Centers Karen: It goes on and on. Cadie: I mean, the list goes on. Karen: Yeah. You'd be amazed at what are franchise is that you don't think they are, but what that means is that there's someone here possibly local, more times than not, that your neighbor could own his own company, but because the shingle says a corporate name, they think it's not theirs, and that's not true. And I think that's what you were referencing earlier. Cadie: Yes. They do own their businesses. I think a lot of times people...you know, for example, Starbucks, they are corporate owned. Yes, they may have a local manager, however, they're not independently owned. They all fall under their own umbrella. Karen: Right, and when it's not corporate, you don't necessarily have the national advertising and, you know, they make their people go out and be in the community. It's your choices whether how successful you want your business to be. Cadie: And I think an important thing kinda off to the side, but so long the franchise, is let's say you are starting a business completely from scratch. Some people go into the idea of, "Hey, I'm gonna start this business with the intention of franchising it in the future and becoming a franchisor," meaning you created the brand that other people can buy into. Karen: I can think of two here locally that are in the middle of that right now. You know, they are building their brand. They built it where there are about...one has already started and another one is about to start. And they had built that brand, but how much investment does it take and is somebody willing to do that? Cadie: I think that's one of the biggest compliments if someone comes up to your business and ask if there's a franchise opportunity. Karen: Well, I don't know if I shared with you, but you know, I was actually at the Payroll Vault conference last week as a vendor for our company, Flexible Benefits, Inc., which is benefit packages for employees. And I did the presentation on that company and when I went back to my booth at the conference, one of the Payroll Vault owners came up to me and said, "Are you planning on franchising that?" I didn't know what to say. For once in my life, I was speechless. And it was because my mind had not gone there, that was my first presentation, and I had the wrong PowerPoint up. So I have no idea what I said while I was up there. In fact, all I remember is you telling me to wrap it up. So, you know, to have that possibility, I think that's in people's minds now. Of course, I think it's more on people's minds that already own or work for a franchise. Cadie: If you were interested in franchising your brand, kinda, what's the first step to do that? Karen: I think I would actually contact the other franchise owners that I know and our franchisors, who we know corporate. I think that, first of all, I would get my ducks in a row with talking with a franchise attorney. I mean, the documents, everything. Look at the document that we have for Payroll Vault. And I've seen other documents. They're an inch, inch-and-a-half thick with legalese. So, you know, presented with something like that, what did we do when we got the thing, Cadie? Cadie: Oh man, we hired an attorney. Karen: Exactly. Cadie: I read it, but we also got an attorney. Karen: And I trust you. So, that worked by itself, but I think, you know, what are the rules and stipulations? There's gotta be federal guidance, things that, you know, we might not necessarily know, but that again throws in a third aspect of it. One, starting from scratch. Two, buying a franchise. Or three, building a brand to be a franchiser, because they're all totally different things. Cadie: Absolutely. So, if someone walked up to you just real quick, two pros and two cons of owning a franchise. Karen: I think one of the pros is definitely not reinventing the wheel. Two, I think one of the pros is having just the acceptance of perception. Cadie: Ooh. Karen: I know. Cadie: I like that term. Karen: Thank you. To being known now for Payroll Vault, nobody here knew it. It's all out in Colorado and out West. You know, there's quite a few in California, a lot in Colorado. So we had to push that brand from scratch. So that was a little different. But it's definitely part of the package. As far as con, yes, you are answerable to someone else. I think that you have to choose whether you consider royalties, and what happens is is that the price you paid for not reinventing the will is you pay them a percentage of sales. And so every month, on your sales, you have to pay them. I consider that an investment. However, I could see where that would turn into a con at some point if you feel like you're doing all the work. Cadie, your feelings on that? It's tough. Cadie: I definitely agree with all of those, you know, pros. I like the community aspect. If, you know, we run into a situation that we've never dealt with before, I'm able to reach out to X amount of people and, "Hey, have you gone through this? Have you dealt with this?" And kinda we're able to bounce off those ideas of people who are not only in the same industry, but they understand our model and our values and how we operate. Another pro is definitely to go further into not reinventing the wheel. You know, the brand is developed, meaning not just the logo, but what that brand... Karen: Efficiencies or process? Cadie: Yes. Well, even just the website, everything like that, you know, best practices. Here's what we look for when hiring. Here's how to operate the software. I mean, everything you could imagine. Karen: Even forms, can you imagine all the forms I had to come up with when I started from scratch? I had to create an award program versus they handed everything to you. Cadie: Yeah, it's fantastic. I mean, normally, franchises offer a training period. So you go to where the headquarters is or they come to you and they make sure that everything is good to go. I mean, that piece of mind, it's invaluable. Karen: Now, you pay for that. Most of them or all of that I've seen have an upfront franchise fee. Cadie: Yes. Karen: And that is dependent on, I think, the popularity, you know, economics, supply and demand. Cadie: And the equipment as well. You know, it's gonna be a lot...Planet Fitness is another franchise. And I mean the cost to get a Planet Fitness, simply because of the gym equipment, it's astronomical. Karen: And that brings, you know, what we hope you take away with today, listening to us, is, you know, what capital do I have to have? Cadie: And most brands, if you go to their website, and you'll see franchise opportunities, it will tell you what that initial estimate buy-in cost is. Karen: You know, they give you the level of liquidity before they'll even talk to you. That means you're... Cadie: What's liquidity? Karen: Liquidity? Cadie: Go. Karen: All right. Assets that you can make available very fast. Okay? Cadie: Knowledge for the day. Karen: It is. But that's not the book version. I'm sure there's very professional... Cadie: We don't want the book version. Karen: Good, because I'm not about the book version. I got flip flops on right now. So if you were to rely on someone to be able to be financially stable, how much could they come up with today? All right. They wanna know how liquid you are or can you even afford to do this? Next, can you afford to live until this gets up and running, whether it's a McDonald's or a brand you've never heard of? Either way, it takes time, build out, ordering, setting up employees. What other things did you see? Cadie: Well, so my question is, let's say that I really liked this brand, I think I would be really good at running this business, but you know, I got debt out the wazoo, how does one go about...is it better to wait until you've established, you know, to have those assets in place, find an investor, go to a bank? How can you start a franchise money-wise? Karen: I think the most aggravating answer is it depends. And it depends on is your neighbor or your uncle an investor and you can have an investor? Well, they're not gonna let you on the ticket, so you're gonna run it. It's your work, blood, sweat, and tears and you don't own it. Well, this, when you work a deal so that over so many years and to make sure he or she gets their money back because it has to be a win-win situation. Another one is hold out, work your butt off, and save up. You know, get your life in order, get out of debt. And that said so easily and it's not that easy. And that's another show. Cadie: When getting a franchise started, what kinda price range could someone expect to pay? I know it depends, however, just a general answer what to expect. Karen: It really goes back to supply and demand again. You know, usually, in general, they'd like you to be a couple of hundred thousand dollars liquid. When you get up to where they know you're gonna have to be able to afford the outlay, you know, you were talking about Jim's earlier. If you are gonna have a big outlay or build out of a restaurant or, you know, you have to go buy their brand, buy their stuff, their equipment, then is gonna be the liquidity. They're gonna want you to have more and be more financially stable because they know what you're gonna have to come out of pocket and they want you to be able to be able to do that. Cadie: And some brands require you to be operationally involved in the business. So let's just say you wanna take the investor route and you just want to invest in a brand. Some like Chick-fil-A, the owners have to be involved in the operations of the business. So that's another thing too is how involved you have to be. Karen: Well, and that goes back to what we've been saying the whole time in that you take a piece of paper and you put pros on one side and cons on the other side and you do it for each franchise that you're looking at until you find where there's more on the pros than on the cons and you can stomach and live with the cons. Cadie: It should not be a quick decision. Karen: Do not make it a quick decision, no. Everything is back to long-term. First, pay the franchise fee, eat while you build it, eat while you grow it, and then slowly it starts to pay off because never in my life have I have seen a good payoff come in the short term. It's always a long term. Cadie: I think people don't see the long term though. That's a common thing to discuss is overnight success. Well, you didn't see the beginning. The beginning isn't really touched on. No one brags about not having money for three years. Karen: Yeah, I think, you know, 2016 was actually a good year for me that I don't really wanna go into right now, but it was a good year. And people would come up, "Oh, my gosh, you're having the year. It's just amazing." And I said, "It took me 20 years to get here. It took 20 years of family, especially family, helping out clients." I mean, I couldn't have built what I have without you. One common thread I can see in all that we've talked about today is people. We talked about it in the first show of how we got here and why we're doing this and I think that the people around you, the people who have done it, the people who are gonna help you are one of the most important things in your life. Cadie: So to sum it up, really, Franchise 101, do your research, talk to people. Karen: That's right. And it cannot be a quick decision. It's not about dollar or a quick buck, but it's about having an emotional connection with what you're trying to do with your life, what you're trying to sell, because no one else is gonna buy into it unless you're emotionally connected. If you don't believe in it, nobody else is. Cadie: Perfect. Karen: Everybody that's listening to us today or thinking about, "Oh, that sounds intriguing. I'd like to look at what kinda franchise..." You know, so where do you go for the source? Cadie: There's a couple different websites to research franchises. There's the Franchise Business Review. There is the International Franchise Association. Karen: Which she won the award last year. Cadie: IFA. Karen: Proud mommy moment. Cadie: Okay. I don't know. Those two resources are really probably the best to start off with. And then once you kinda get some ideas of brands that you wanna work with, go check out those companies directly. Karen: Read between the lines and read the little print. That's where they get you.
Episode 179: The Production Classroom Have you considered putting on a play with an advanced class, during class time? Have you ever tried an in-class production and struggled with the process? In this podcast Karen Loftus highlights the steps she went through to create and implement The Production Classroom. Show Notes The Perils of Modern Education Drama Teacher Academy - The Production Classroom Episode Transcript Welcome to the Drama Teacher Podcast brought to you by Theatrefolk – the Drama teacher resource company. I'm Lindsay Price. Hello! I hope you're well. Thanks for listening! This is Episode 179 and you can find any links to this episode in the show notes which are at Theatrefolk.com/episode179. Today, we are talking about a great, great long-term project that you can do with an advanced class. This can take up a whole semester or even a whole year – depending on how long you have your students. The ultimate goal, I think, with a drama class is to have them move through the entire process of putting on a play – right from audition to performance. I know that this is something many teachers struggle with, right? How do you encourage accountability? What if students don't listen to their peers? What do the tech students do during rehearsals? We are talking about the production classroom and all of these questions – and more – are answered in today's conversation. So, let's get to it. LINDSAY: I am speaking with Karen Loftus. Hello, Karen! KAREN: Hello there! LINDSAY: Karen is a long-time friend to Theatrefolk. I was trying to remember when we first met. I know it was Florida and I know it was a conference and I think it was Jacksonville. Does that right a bell? KAREN: Yeah, I think it was, too. I do. LINDSAY: I think so, and I know that you had just done Circus in Olympus and I think that was, was that the first Theatrefolk play you did? KAREN: No, first Theatrefolk play for us is we did a really great night where we did Emotional Baggage and Tick Tock in the same night. We called it “A Night with Few Words” and it went on really, really well. LINDSAY: Oh, that's awesome. I'm not sure I knew that story. I knew that you had done those plays. Karen, you have had – I'm going to call it amazing – an amazing journey because, when we first met, you were a high school teacher in Florida and, now, you're in New York and you've had a variety of jobs but your job now – well, from the outside, it kind of sounds a little exciting, right? KAREN: It is! I'm an education production manager for Roundabout Theatre Company now in New York. I actually am managing a program where we're training technical – we're training students 18 to 24 in technical theatre. It's exciting because we're partnering with IATSE – International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, the union of theatre technicians – and they're working with us to help train these students. And so, it is, it's really exciting. LINDSAY: Yeah, I love that. I think, to be able to train them but also, like, actually in a theatre, they're able to – I'm assuming – actually apply the things that they're learning directly in production. KAREN: Yeah, they are. We normally will go to downtown spaces because there are union houses so there's situations there, but nothing beats hands-on. Nothing beats just getting right into it, you know? LINDSAY: Which is an amazing segue which was not planned but, as you were talking, I'm like, “Hey! Segue time!” to what we're going to talk about today. What we're going to talk about is the production classroom and the ability for you to actually – you, the listening you, I know who you are; I've met you, I know who you are – for you to be able to plan and implement and execute doing shows in your classroom – both onstage and off. Karen, how many of these did you put together in your time? KAREN: Wow! Well, we would do,
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