Podcast appearances and mentions of Pamela Wible

Have you ever wondered why so many physicians silently struggle with burnout, shame, and the pressure to be perfect—even when their careers look successful on the outside?In this powerful replay episode from season 1, Coach JPMD speaks with Dr. Richard Shaw about a topic that's both deeply personal and professionally urgent: physician shame. With September marking National Suicide Prevention Month, this episode sheds light on why the internal weight of “never being enough” is leading to devastating consequences—and what doctors can do to finally heal.Learn a 3-step framework for overcoming shame with practical, grace-centered strategiesUnderstand the dangerous link between perfectionism and physician burnoutDiscover how vulnerability and safe relationships can become the antidote to hidden painIf you're a physician or healthcare professional seeking freedom from internal pressure and silent suffering, press play now and learn how to break free from shame—one healing truth at a time.If you need emotional help or even contemplating suicide please reach out to the following resources.  We are here to help you.Pamela Wible, MDhttps://Idealmedicalcare.org/contactNational Suicide Prevention Line1-800-273-8255 (TALK)Dr. Richard Shawhttp://www.shamenomore.comLink to book - Shame No Morehttps://a.co/d/1gOBOOkTEXT HERE to suggest a future episode topic Discover how medical graduates, junior doctors, and young physicians can navigate residency training programs, surgical residency, and locum tenens to increase income, enjoy independent practice, decrease stress, achieve financial freedom, and retire early, while maintaining patient satisfaction and exploring physician side gigs to tackle medical school loans.

MedLink Neurology Podcast is delighted to feature selected episodes from BrainWaves, courtesy of James E Siegler MD, its originator and host. BrainWaves is an academic audio podcast whose mission is to educate medical providers through clinical cases and topical reviews in neurology, medicine, and the humanities, and episodes originally aired from 2016 to 2021. Originally released: May 10, 2018 There is a nationwide epidemic happening right now. And it's not some terrible virus, it's not because of anything we've had to eat or drink. It is an occupational hazard of the hospital environment: Physician suicide. Dr. Pamela Wible, Founder of the Ideal Medical Care Movement, shares her unique approach to this preventable plague. Produced by James E Siegler. Music by Andrew Sacco, Damiano Baldoni, Kevin McLeod, Jason Shaw, and Rafael Archangel. Voiceover by Patrick Green. BrainWaves' podcasts and online content are intended for medical education only and should not be used for clinical decision-making. REFERENCES Goldman ML, Shah RN, Bernstein CA. Depression and suicide among physician trainees: recommendations for a national response. JAMA Psychiatry. 2015 May;72(5):411-2. doi: 10.1001/jamapsychiatry.2014.3050. PMID 25738529Kesselheim AS, Austad KE. Residents: workers or students in the eyes of the law? N Engl J Med 2011;364(8):697-9. PMID 21226569Schernhammer E. Taking their own lives -- the high rate of physician suicide. N Engl J Med 2005;352(24):2473-6. PMID 15958803Schernhammer ES, Colditz GA. Suicide rates among physicians: a quantitative and gender assessment (meta-analysis). Am J Psychiatry 2004;161(12):2295-302. PMID 15569903Sen S, Kranzler HR, Krystal JH, et al. A prospective cohort study investigating factors associated with depression during medical internship. Arch Gen Psychiatry 2010;67(6):557-65. PMID 20368500Witte TK, Fitzpatrick KK, Joiner TE Jr, Schmidt NB. Variability in suicidal ideation: a better predictor of suicide attempts than intensity or duration of ideation? J Affect Disord 2005;88(2):131-6. PMID 16054227  We believe that the principles expressed or implied in the podcast remain valid, but certain details may be superseded by evolving knowledge since the episode's original release date.

Physician suicide is no easy topic, but that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't talk about it. Dr. Pamela Wible has examined over 2,000 physician suicide cases and collected data that is more than just statistics. In this episode, Dr. Archana Shrestha interviews Dr. Wible about her observations over the years and what each of us can do to break the stigma associated with suicide and mental health issues. Dr. Pamela Wible was a Women in White Coats 2022 Hero of the Year nominee. In between treating her own patients and helping doctors launch community clinics, Dr. Wible devotes herself to medical student and physician suicide prevention. Her extensive database and suicide registry reveals highest- risk specialties—and solutions. Dr. Wible runs a free doctor suicide hotline and has helped countless medical students and physicians heal from anxiety, depression, PTSD, and suicidal thoughts so they can enjoy practicing medicine again. Key Takeaways [02:30] How Dr. Wible got into the subject of physician suicide [06:50] The type of data she has collected over the years [13:50] Why physicians don't ask for help [24:32] Dr Wible's advice for those feeling unsupported in their environment [29:48] How doctors can create more ideal practice settings [40:22] Dr. Wible's simple suggestion for a daily mental health check-in. More than half of women physicians are feeling burnout right now and we want to help you discover what's at the heart of it. Take our brand new quiz to help you discover the root cause of burnout for you and what to do about it! Take the quiz here: https://womeninwhitecoats.com/quiz/ This Podcast is not approved for credit by CMEfy, however, you may reflect on how this Podcast applies to your day-to-day and engage to earn AMA PRA Category 1 Credit(s)™ via point-of-care learning activities here: https://womeninwhitecoats.com/podcastcme --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/women-in-white-coats/message

When a doctor, medical resident, or medical student is suffering, in emotional pain, who can they call for support? Dr. Wible started taking their phone calls many years ago. When she wrote about it on her blog, more calls started to come in. It turned out that no one else was interested in doing the job.Over the years, 24/7, around the clock, Dr. Wible has made herself available, at no cost, to take phone calls from doctors who were contemplating suicide. Many people on the verge of ending their own lives were able to make a connection and reconsider their options.Dr. Pamela Wible has also been featured in TED talks, She has been on major television programs, including Dr. Oz. She assisted in the production of the documentary, "Do No Harm", a film about physician suicide, and she is a best-selling author.Dr. Wible also hosts multiple retreats every year for healthcare professionals. She provides seminars, private coaching, and group support. Doctors who are interested in escaping the rat race of corporate medicine can learn about their options and discover alternatives that are possible for them to achieve in a relatively short time.For more information, please visit: https://www.idealmedicalcare.org/

"When the medical profession—a career you have pursued for years, a career you love and trust to do no harm does something to shatter the foundations of your sense of trust and worldview, the resulting trauma can be severe resulting in loss of sense of self and life-altering betrayal grief that mirrors the stages of acceptance of one's own death (or the death of a piece of one's soul when swept up in the betrayal cascade)—denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. As a witness to immense betrayal within the medical profession, I've felt them all." Pamela Wible is a family physician and author of Physician Betrayal: How Our Heroes Become Villains. She shares her story and discusses her KevinMD article, "Medicine's culture of betrayal." (https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2021/09/medicines-culture-of-betrayal.html)

Overview: The stigma of mental illness is rampant-- but it's especially become a big source of shame within our community of physicians. Today, I've invited over Dr. Pamela Wible, a passionate physician dedicated to the eradication of mental illness stigmas. Living with her OCD and depression, she felt like she was at a disadvantage-- until she finally decided to take a stand and really show people that physicians are human, that they too have mental and emotional needs that need care sometimes. Listen in as she shares with us her amazing journey to building a safe space for our doctors! --- This content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice or to take the place of such advice or treatment from a personal physician. All readers/viewers of this content are advised to consult their doctors or qualified health professionals regarding specific health questions. Neither Dr. Shivani, nor her guests take responsibility for possible health consequences of any person or persons reading or following the information in this educational content. All viewers of this content, especially those taking prescription or over-the-counter medications, should consult their physicians before beginning any nutrition, supplement or lifestyle program. Episode Highlights: Dr. Wible's struggles with mental illness How she's addressed the issues in her own way Building a suicide hotline for physicians Creating a safe space for her friends What we can do to support each other Connect with Dr. Pamela Wible: https://www.idealmedicalcare.org/ (Website | Pamela Wible MD) https://twitter.com/PamelaWibleMD (Twitter | PamelaWibleMD)

This story focuses heavily on suicide, and it might not be appropriate for everyone. Dr. Pamela Wible is a family physician in Oregon. After learning that physicians have a higher rate of suicide than most professions, she set up a free suicide hotline for physicians. She's spent years counseling doctors and those who have lost a colleague to suicide. COVID-19 has put her in even greater demand.

Dr. Pamela Wible is a family physician born into a family of physicians who warned her not to pursue medicine. She soon discovered why—to heal her patients she first had to heal her profession. Fed up with assembly-line medicine, Dr. Wible held town hall meetings where she invited citizens to design their own ideal clinic. Open since 2005, Wible’s community clinic has inspired Americans to create ideal clinics and hospitals nationwide. In between treating her own patients and helping doctors launch community clinics, Dr. Wible devotes herself to medical student and physician suicide prevention. She has investigated nearly 1,300 doctor suicides and her extensive database and suicide registry reveals highestrisk specialties—and solutions. Dr. Wible runs a free doctor suicide hotline and has helped countless medical students and physicians heal from anxiety, depression, PTSD, and suicidal thoughts so they can enjoy practicing medicine again. Dr. Wible speaks widely on health care delivery and physician suicide prevention. Episode produced by: Rasa, Dave, and Aaron www.medicuspodcast.com | medicuspodcast@gmail.com | Donate: http://bit.ly/MedicusDonate

Interview by Dr. Pamela Wible with physician Dr. Kendra Campbell who launched a nonprofit clinic. We discuss pros and cons of nonprofit clinic business model.

This solo episode I am talking about asking for help, any kind of help.  I am looking for you to gain confidence in asking for help whether in your day to day routine or in life.    Physician Suicide: National Suicide Prevention Month; call 1-800-273-8255 for help. Help in the form of mentorship Help in the form of coaching Jocelyn Elders, 15th surgeon general of the United States. HMU (Hit me up) Do No Harm episode Pamela Wible episode   www.timewithdoctorjarret.com       Show Sponsor: Emmitt Hayes III Coffee Company (EH3) www.emmittscoffee.com USE SPECIAL DISCOUNT CODE: DOCTORJARRET           Licensed To Live     www.doctorjarret.com   www.licensedtolivesale.com Use ‘PODCAST’ for a discount   Licensed To Live: Daily Affirmations to Rebuild Your Life    

Rates of suicide for physicians are among the highest for any profession. And the strain of the coronavirus pandemic is making already strenuous working conditions nearly impossible to bear for some and impossible for others. We talk with two Oregon doctors involved in responding to the mental health crisis in medicine and ask what is being done to prevent it. Pamela Wible practices medicine in Eugene and is the author of “Human Rights Violations in Medicine: A-to-Z Action Guide.” Don Girard is professor emeritus at Oregon Health Sciences University and chairs the executive committee of the Oregon Wellness Program. The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 1-800-273-TALK (8255), or you can text the word “home” to 741-741.

Big Kev interviews the amazing Dr. Pamela Wible. AMAZING!!!!

How would you design your health-care system from scratch? Dr Zieve talks with Dr Pamela Wible about how she's helping communities do just that.Pamela Wible MD is a family physician and nationally recognized innovator in patient-centered care, the first physician to engage a community in defining ideal care and designing its own clinic. Her community-driven model has sparked a movement. A sought-after speaker, Dr. Wible is also co-author of the award-winning anthology Goddess Shift: Women Leading for a Change (Elite Books, 2010) with Michelle Obama and Oprah Winfrey among other visionary women, and is featured in Optimism: Cultivating the Magic Quality that Can Extend Your Lifespan, Boost Your Energy and Make You Happy Now (Elite Books, May 2011) with co-authors Mehmet Oz, Deepak Chopra, Wayne Dyer and other famed leaders. Read more at www.idealmedicalcare.org. If you cannot see the audio controls, your browser does not support the audio element

With all the unsafe working conditions in hospitals across the country during the COVID pandemic, Dr. Pamela Wible is seeing about double the amount of consults to her doctor suicide help line.   In this episode (all times approximate): Dr. Wible’s journey into physician suicide started with her own ideation (5:00) Physician suicide epidemic during the Covid pandemic; NYC resident deaths covered up (10:00) A ‘grooming process’ and human rights violations for doctors as we talk about her book Human Rights Violations in Medicine: A to Z Action Guide (15:00) Having to re-use single use PPE is the equivalent to "asking a prostitute to use the same condom all week.” (21:30) Dr. Wible ‘dissed’? You bet! Wait until you hear these disses.(27:00) Will doctors be able to unionize? (34:00)   Show Sponsor: Emmitt Hayes III Coffee Company (EH3) www.emmittscoffee.com USE SPECIAL DISCOUNT CODE: DOCTORJARRET Dr. Pamela Wible 24/7 Physician Helpline National Suicide Prevention Lifeline  800-273-8255 Dr. Wible’s book Human Rights Violations in Medicine: A to Z Action Guide Dr. Wible's books Licensed To Live www.timewithdoctorjarret.com www.doctorjarret.com www.licensedtolivesale.com Use ‘PODCAST’ for a discount Licensed To Live: Daily Affirmations to Rebuild Your Life

Robyn Symon Interview: Physician Suicide & DO NO HARMRobyn Symon, a two-time Emmy award-winning filmmaker, joined me for the Licensed to Lead podcast on April 30, 2020.Robyn has written, directed, and produced films and television series—and she specializes in documentaries. We spoke about her acclaimed and riveting film that takes an unblinking look at the dark underbelly of medical training. Robyn is passionate about doing what she can to highlight and address the inhumanity of medical training—inhumanity which unfortunately can also be found in healthcare organizations. She’s currently on an international film tour with her documentary about physicians and medical training—the film is:DO NO HARM: Exposing the Hippocratic HoaxDO NO HARM is about a sick culture in medical school and residency that drives depression and burnout and suicide among medical students and physicians. This is an issue that is important to physicians and so critical to the future of medicine. It is phenomenal and hopeful that a filmmaker of Robyn Symon’s caliber chose to create a documentary to help stop the abuse of medical students and residents.Robyn was particularly interested in joining me on the Licensed to Lead Podcast to highlight a series of screenings of the film in May—during Mental Health Awareness Month. When I asked Robyn what messages she wanted to communicate with the film she said she wants people to understand:- Why physician suicides are happening and what the impact is on patients- That physicians and patients must unite in their desire for an excellent healthcare system- That when physicians are burned out or suicidal “The problem is NOT YOU”—the problem is the system and the system must change- The importance of discussing suicide and reducing the stigma about mental illness One of the most urgent messages for medical students and physicians is the importance of understanding the threat posed to their mental health and the critical need to seek mental health assistance. Robyn Symon and Dr. Pamela Wible are on a mission to reduce barriers to mental health treatment including:- Affordability- Accessibility to high-quality support and treatment- Eliminating questions about prior mental health treatment on licensing and credentialing applicationsIn the interview, Robyn talks about resistance some medical schools have to host the film and audience discussions. Robyn and other experts accompany the film to medical schools and healthcare organizations in order to lead the post-screening conversations. Considering the propensity for resistance she also marvels at the fact that over 180 organizations have hosted screenings with follow up audience discussions. We also talked about the science of sleep deprivation and the disingenuous arguments that are used to justify 28-hour shifts for trainees. There is a big question mark about the Congressional decision to leave regulation of work hours and work content to the ACGME.Other topics included:Physician disillusionment with the commoditization of medicine and the dysfunctional EHRRevelations, particularly to the public, as a result of the COVID-19 crisis.Physician leadership and a discussion about whether unionization of a profession like medicine is a good idea.During the month of May, which is Mental Health Awareness Month, Robyn is conducting on-line screenings of the film every Sunday night. The screenings are available by going to the website DONOHARMFILM.COM and registering. Robyn introduces the film and after the film, she presides over a panel discussion by experts. Each Sunday night a different topic is emphasized and the panelists are chosen based on that evening’s primary focus. Dr. Pamela Wible, who is an instrumental part of the film, joins Robyn and the panelists for all of the screenings in May.

Physician Burnout: Definition, Controversies and Etiology The last episode waded into the murky waters of graduate business education. Anyone listening to that podcast should have emerged with serious doubts about whether an MBA is a desirable credential for healthcare, much less for healthcare leadership. This Licensed to Lead Podcast is the first of four episodes zeroing in on physician burnout. What is it? Why is it? And how is it that the word “burnout” has become radioactive? This episode defines the terms, takes a look at the assessments used to determine the presence of burnout, and fleshes out the controversies and the causes. Part 1: What is burnout? How is it measured? Research tells us that on day one of medical school, medical students have lower rates of burnout and depression than a matched cohort. The impending medical students are more mentally healthy and stable than their counterparts. Research also tells us that once in medical school, students develop very high rates of depression and burnout. So they go in more mentally stable than their peers, and they get sick. The “canary in the mine” analogy is apt. And everyone who’s anyone in the world of burnout agrees: The World Health Organization, Berkeley professor emeritus Christina Maslach (of the eponymous Maslach Burnout Inventory), even Pamela Wible, MD (author of “Burnout is Bullshit!”) agree that burnout is an occupationally induced syndrome. It is caused by the workplace. It’s not the doctor’s lack of resilience or predisposition to mental illness or Patchouli oil deficiency that creates a 50% burnout rate. Doctors don’t start out with it. A damaging work environment ushered in by unenlightened, unskilled, or uncaring leaders is the source. How is burnout measured? In 1981, Christina Maslach and Susan Jackson developed the Maslach Burnout Inventory (MBI). The standard 22-item questionnaire has three domains: 1. Exhaustion, typically emotional exhaustion 2. Cynicism (or depersonalization), a loss of caring about work, colleagues and patients 3. Inefficacy, feelings of incompetence There are multiple versions of the MBI which have been adapted for various groups as well as truncated versions which correlate well with the original MBI. Part 2: What’s so controversial about burnout? The word “burnout” has become radioactive. It has been co-opted by resilience consultants and administrators who prefer to “fix” doctors rather than crawl into that coalmine to eliminate the toxicity. This is a masterful sleight of hand by those who control the direction, the dollars and the microphones in our healthcare institutions. Another area of controversy is whether the “burnout” accurately captures the issue. Drs. Wendy Dean and Simon Talbot believe the term “moral injury” is a more accurate description of what happens to doctors in toxic institutions. They describe this as the trauma done to physicians who succumb to the influence of a pernicious system that doesn't share the professional values of physicians—a pernicious system that constructs barriers to doing the right thing. Pamela Wible, MD says we should dump the term burnout because what’s really going on is a systematic violation of human rights. That argument is particularly relevant to medical students and residents who are vulnerable to abuse of power by those with influence over their career options. PART 3: Physician Burnout Data and More The causes are not a mystery. The RAND/AMA survey of 2013 spelled it out—physicians are dissatisfied by: -being thwarted in their attempts to provide high quality care -the electronic health record which is dysfunctional and drives an inordinate amount of meaningless work for physicians -In addition to the above, other sources list the following elements: -high workload with long work hours and time pressure but no recovery time -chaotic work environments -lack of control over work -values dissonance which prioritizes corporate profits over care of patients A disconcerting component of all the burnout research is the serial documentation of relentlessly high physician burnout without a focus on the ultimate source of the problem: leadership. In the next episode: a summary of the harm done to physicians, patients and practices, and the enormous financial impact. Then a no-holds-barred discussion of the real issues, which are created by leadership invested in the status quo. A note from the Licensed to Lead podcast host Patty Fahy, MD: Thank you for reading and listening. Visit FahyConsulting.com to learn more about how we work with physicians and other leaders to create healthy work cultures. Also—join future podcast conversations by sending me an email or leaving me a voice message. I would love to hear YOUR voice! Show Notes The Business of Health Care Depends on Exploiting Doctors and Nurses by Danielle Ofri, MD, PhD

Medicine's Dark Side is deeper than one might think — But there's hope for doctors and patients to cope and overcome a secret problem with us for over 160 years. The Physician's Guardian Angel, and author of Human Rights Violations in Medicine, Dr. Pamela Wible, joins Hunter for a deeper conversation about what’s driving physician suicides and what we can do to prevent them. This episode is a must listen for any parent with a child thinking about becoming a physician, in medical school or residency. So too for spouses of physicians. Her deeply personal story about her own walk to the edge is compelling and enlightening. She unpacks “physician burnout” and why it’s the wrong word to describe the situation. They explore two simple things we can do to help prevent these tragic events. There are fundamental issues in care, which must be addressed to foster prevention. More secrecy is not the answer. It’s the system, Sam. Dr. Wible offers any medical school student or physician her support at: https://idealmedicalcare.org Human Rights Violations in Medicine is available from our Resource page: https://winhff.com/resources.html Watch her Death Row Health Care stand up comedy premiere at NYC's West Side Comedy Club here: https://vimeo.com/385107228 --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/winhff/message

Feature Interview (12:55) – Dr. Dominic Vachon, Director of the Ruth M. Hillebrand Center for Compassionate Care in Medicine at the University of Notre Dame, is back for a second episode to discuss the science of compassion, including how compassion or lack of it impacts both doctors and patients and what we can all do to be better at it. Hillebrand Center for Compassionate Care in Medicine https://compassionatecare.nd.edu/ "How Doctors Care: The Science of Compassion and Balanced Caring in Medicine," by Dr. Dominic Vachon https://titles.cognella.com/how-doctors-care-9781516540082 Also in this episode: Background (01:00) – What Doctors (Secretly) Need from Patients, and What Patients (Secretly) Need from Doctors by Dr. Pamela Wible https://www.idealmedicalcare.org/doctors-secretly-need-patients/ Medical Trivia (Answer at 48:37) – There was a 2011 study published in Academic Medicine that included a blood test that analyzed how well a patients blood sugar had been controlled over several months. The patients were grouped into categories: good, moderate, or poor control of blood sugar. Then the patients’ physicians were given a test to determine their own levels of empathy. The doctors were grouped into categories: high, moderate, or low levels of empathy. The study compared the results to see if there was a correlation between the empathy of the doctor and the blood sugar control of his or her patient. Doctors who scored low in empathy had patients with a good blood sugar level 44% of the time. Did doctors with high levels of empathy have the same, higher, or lower percent of patients with good blood sugar level? ------ www.redeemerradio.com www.cathmed.org Follow us on Facebook: @DoctorDoctorShow Submit your question(s): Text (Holy Cross College text line) - 260-436-9598 Online - www.RedeemerRadio.com/Doctor E-mail - Doctor@RedeemerRadio.com Subscribe to the Podcast: iTunes | Google Play | SoundCloud | RSS

On this special 4 part series Russell shares 2 interviews from the On The Brighter Side podcast that he and his wife, Collette did with Monica Tanner. Here is what you will hear during the first part of Russell’s interview: Find out how Russell met Collette, and was able to snag such a catch. Hear about Russell’s failures in business and how he was able to get past them. And see how Russell was able to overcome extreme introvertedness to become the amazing speaker that he is today. So listen here to the informative first part of Russell’s interview with Monica in this 4 part series. ---Transcript--- Hey everybody, this is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets podcast. I’ve got a special fun treat for you over the next 4 episodes, I’m really excited for. We’ve got a friend that lives in our neighborhood who, I have this problem when I meet people where I just tell them that they should launch businesses and podcasts and try to change the world, because that’s just how I view the whole world. We had a chance to meet their family and I told her, “You should start a podcast.” And unlike what most people that hear that, “Oh yeah, that’d be fun.” She actually did it, started a podcast. And because of that, one of her first episodes I went on, and I was one of her very first guests which was super cool. Her name is Monica Tanner and her podcast is called On the Brighter Side. So I did the podcast interview with her and she was, she kind of jokes about it now, she was nervous and it was one of her first ones, the audio quality wasn’t amazing. But she did an interview with me talking a lot about, not so much my successes, here’s how cool Russell is, but more on the failure side, and family side, and things like that, that I thought was really interesting. So that was a really fun podcast interview. And fast forward, like 2 years later she asked my wife to be on the podcast. So Collette did a podcast episode with her, where it’s kind of like the second half, looking at the same questions, not the same but similar questions that she asked me, but through Collette’s lens and how she viewed the experiences and what we do and everything like that. So I asked Monica if she’d be okay with me publishing those 2 podcast episodes here on the Marketing Secrets show and she said yes. So I’m excited for that. So what we’re going to do is I’m going to break it up, each one into halves, so basically it’s going to be a 4 episode series. It’s going to be part 1 with Russell, part 2 with Russell, part 3 with Collette, and part 4 with Collette. Collette’s interview, just so you know is way better than mine, and I’m super proud of her, she did a great job. This is only her second podcast interview ever. So if you love it, let her know, she’s getting more and more used to this and sharing herself and stories, and it’s just been fun watching her blossom and share these things. So I’m grateful for Monica also inviting Collette to be on her podcast as well. So with that said, I’m going to queue up the theme song, and when we come back I will start part 1 of 4 of On the Brighter Side series. So with that said, let’s get started. Monica: Hello, and welcome to On the Brighter Side, I’m your host Monica Tanner. Today I have a super special treat for you guys. My guest today is the husband of one of my very best friends in the whole wide world, the dad of some of my very favorite kids besides my own, he’s our neighbor and friend and one of the kindest men I know. Over the past ten years he’s built a following of over a million entrepreneurs, sold hundreds of thousands of copies of his books, popularized the concept of sales funnels and cofounded a software company called Clickfunnels, that helps tens of thousands of entrepreneurs quickly get their message out to the marketplace. Please help me welcome my guest today, Russell Brunson. Hi Russell. Russell: Hey, how’s it going? Monica: Good, thanks so much for joining us today. So my first question for you is about your wife. Russell: The coolest person I know. Monica: Yes, because I’m dying to know how a goofy wrestler got a catch like Collette to marry him. What did you have to do to convince her? Russell: That was actually, it’s funny because I’m famous for selling stuff, and that was probably the hardest sale I ever had, was convincing her to marry me. Monica: I bet, that’s awesome. Russell: It’s funny because when we first met, she’s 5 ½ years older than me, and a bunch of my then roommates kind of had crushes on her, so we’d always go, as an apartment, go hang out over there, because they were all trying to date her and stuff like that. And I didn’t think that was even a possibility. So I’d just come hang out because I had nothing else to do, and after a little while we just kind of started liking each other, and then that was the big question. “Can I date someone 5 ½ years older than me?” And I’m like, “Would she actually like someone 5 ½ years younger than her?” That was the other side of the question. And she said yes to the first date, and it all worked out in the end. Monica: Okay, so most people who know you, know you as a fantastically successful business man, a marketer, a public speaker, an author, a guy who can do everything. And I’ve been super excited to interview and strategically place your interview after my episode on failure, because I know that you haven’t always been this successful. I know that you’ve had to overcome some things and even fail at a few other business endeavors before you got where you are, so I was hoping you would start by telling us that story. Russell: Yeah, there’s actually a lot of stories about my failures. How many do you want? Monica: As many as you have time for. Russell: No, it’s funny because when I first started my business, I was in college and just met Collette, and we were about to get married. And it was the first time, I remember I told my dad, “Hey, I’m getting married.” And he was like, “Well, how are you going to support yourself?” And I was like, “Well, you’ve been supporting me.” And he was like, “Well, when you get married, I don’t do that anymore.” I’m like, “Oh, I didn’t even think through that.” When you get married you’re a grown man and you’re on your own. I was like, okay I gotta figure it out. So that’s the start of this whole process. I started learning about how to, internet marketing and how to sell things and tried a whole bunch of, I spent probably about 2, almost 2 years trying stuff that didn’t work. So there’s a whole slew of failures in there. But some of the bigger ones were after I started figuring out, “Oh, this is how internet marketing works, you create a product, you set up a website, you get people to come to it…” Just kind of learned the basics and started making some money. And really quick I started hiring some people because it started getting overwhelming, so I hired some of my friends. And it’s funny because anybody who would ask me a question about it, I’d hire them because I was like, “Oh you care about this, let me hire you, I need someone to hang out with that will talk to me.” Because no one else knew what I was doing or cared about it, you know. So I ended up hiring a bunch of my friends and we started growing the company and there’s this really weird thing, as entrepreneurs you make money when you sell something and that’s it, but as employees you get paid every two weeks whether you make money or not. So I started growing this business and they’d want a paycheck. “Hey it’s payday.” And I’m like, “We don’t have any money.” And they’re like, “Well, we have to get paid.” So I’d be like oh. So I’d try and put together something really quick to sell, and I’d pay payroll. And then they’re out of money again. And I knew payday was in 2 weeks again. And I’d literally ignore all my staff because I didn’t have time to train them on stuff, I had to go make money so I could pay for them. So they were sitting on the other side of the office just wondering what they should do, while I was hiding away trying to make money to pay for them. It was this horrible thing. And that was the first time, it was like Christmas time and everything, basically I ran out of money and ran out of ideas, and I was like, “I have to fire all my friends and a bunch of my family members.” Which was a scary thing. And it’s funny, I was out hanging Christmas lights up and listening to an MP3 of somebody telling some business ideas, and someone had an idea and I was like, “I can try that.” So I called them up and I was like, “Hey guys, you don’t know this yet, but we’re completely broke. I have no money for payroll or Christmas. But I think I got an idea, do you guys want to come try this thing out.” And they were kind of confused, and then they all jumped in and we got together and we put together a new plan, and it’s funny now, we’ll probably talk about funnels a little bit, but it was a funnel we put together. We didn’t call them that back in the day, but we created this thing and we launched it and we made enough money to cover everyone for Christmas, and it also built a continuity business so we could actually have money coming in. So that was the first time we kind of almost collapsed the business. But after that I kind of figured out, oh, this is how it was working again. So then we started growing really big, and grew to the point where we had 100 and something employees, and then one day over night, that whole business lost all our merchant accounts and everything shut down. It was when the economy was changing and I had to lay off about 80 people in one day. A lot of them were friends and family members, all of them were friends, some family members as well. Then over the next 3 ½ - 4 years of my life it was just like, laying off more people and trying to like keep the doors open and almost going through bankruptcy twice, almost getting sued by people we owed money to, trying to figure out how to pay them. It was a really dark, painful 2 ½ - 3 years or so. We owed a bunch of money to the IRS, and finally we were able to work out of it. But those were the 2, and when I think back about the whole thing, those are the 2 biggest times that my business kind of crashed. And it’s funny, after the second big crash when I had to lay off all those people, I had a chance to meet this guy who had made hundreds of millions of dollars, super wealthy, and he asked me to tell him my story. So I told him the highlight reel that most people hear about. And he’s like, “Well, have you ever failed?” and I was like, “Uh…” so I reluctantly told him those stories about the failures. And he’s like, “Okay, good. You’ve cycled.” And I was like, “What does that mean?” And he’s like, “You’ve cycled.” And I’m like, “Okay, what does that mean?” and he said, “I’ll never work with an entrepreneur who hasn’t cycled at least once. If they’re always successful they still believe their own bio, they still drink their own kool-aid. After you’ve built something and you’ve lost it all, then you’ve cycled. Then you’re humble enough to actually be able to work with you. To actually create something really, really cool. Because you’ve cycled twice I’d actually work with you.” And I remember thinking, that sounds so much better than failure. But it’s so true now. A lot of times when I work with people, you see the first time they have success, they’re going crazy and so much stuff is always, they make a lot of decisions a lot of times, not super arrogant, but they think it’s them, and you realize when you do have the big failures that it’s like, oh, it’s not you, there’s a lot of other people involved, and there’s timing, there’s inspiration from God, and there’s people. There’s so many things that happen and it’s like, as soon as you forget about that, it feels like the lord humbles you. So ever since the second crash I’ve tried to be super aware of that constantly. And I’m not perfect, but I’m very aware of, okay who are all the people that are in charge of this? What are the inspirations from God coming and guiding me on these things? And trying to be very aware of those, because I’m just scared that if I’m not aware, it’s going to happen again. Monica: So what would be your big takeaway? Would you say that instead of calling it failure, maybe we’re cycling, or….? Russell: I think so. And I think people become okay with that. One of the biggest problems with entrepreneurs I work with is they’re so scared of the potential of crashing that they don’t risk things or try things. And I always tell them, if you look at the founding fathers, they gave us this blessing, I think it’s a gift from God, the bankruptcy laws. I’m like, worst case scenario, if you go bankrupt it’s not the end of the world. It’s a gift that we can reset and start over, and that’s what gives entrepreneurs and people the ability to risk and try things, knowing that worst case scenario there’s a reset and you can start over. So I always tell people that. It’s not a, it’s okay to be, I think it’s okay to fail, and to be prepared for it. When I first started this journey I was listening to Brian Tracey, he was doing an interview I was listening to and he said that one night he was watching TV and there was this panel of millionaires, and there was 17 millionaires on this panel and they were interviewing all of them. And one thing the host asked was, “How many times did you guys each fail before you were successful?’ and they didn’t know the answer so they cut to commercial while they counted, and they came back and said, I think out of the people up there they averaged that they all failed on average 14 times before they had their success. And Brian Tracey said, “Do you think it’s they just got, you know they failed, and they failed and eventually they got lucky and they did it? Or do you think it’s they failed and figured out that didn’t work and they failed and got better and got better until eventually it’s like they couldn’t not be successful.” And I think it’s the other way. The failures are okay, because it’s protecting you from that thing again, and it gets you closer and closer to where you’re at. I know that if I would have launched out company, Clickfunnels ten years ago, I would have bankrupted it 4 or 5 times by now. But all these things I’ve learned going on this journey now, I’m hyper aware of there’s a gap here, there’s a way I could fail here, there’s things that are happening and I’m able to protect myself because of that, because of the failure. So I feel like the failure’s preparing you for whatever your bigger mission is someday. Monica: I love that, I love that so much. So my question is for you personally, after that second crash, where you were so close to the bottom, why not just get a regular job somewhere working for someone? What gave you the idea and the courage to start from, just to do it over again? Russell: Um, I actually remember, vividly remember laying in bed one day thinking, “I wish that I had a boss so he could fire me.” Because it was like, I wanted, I would have loved to step away from that. For me, the circumstances of the whole crash, I wasn’t able to. I had a bookkeeper who didn’t pay, I didn’t know this at the time, hadn’t paid payroll taxes in over a year, and we had sold a whole bunch of coaching, so we had a whole bunch of students who had bought stuff, so we had outstanding liabilities to. So I woke up every morning for a 2 year period of time knowing that if I don’t pay the IRS back, and payroll, I didn’t know this at the time, payroll taxes are not like they just give you a fine. Payroll taxes they lock you up and you go to jail. So I was like, if I don’t figure out how to pay the IRS, I go to jail, which is a really scary thing to think through. And I had sold stuff to people and I had to keep fulfilling on it, and if I didn’t fulfill on it, it would have destroyed my name and my reputation and I would have lost that forever too, which is like….So I go to jail or lose my reputation or both. And I was like, “I can’t quit.” Even if I wanted to. So for me, those are the 2 things that were really the driving forces that kept me in it. But then it’s like, I don’t know… Monica: But you could’ve just quite. You could’ve just said, “Take me to jail. I don’t care about my reputation. I’m going to get a 9 to 5, this is too much stress.” Russell: Yeah, I guess you could have. But there’s something, I grew up as a wrestler and I just know that all the good stuff in wrestling came on the back of defeat. My junior year of high school I thought I was going to be state champ and my very first match I lost it. But that loss, the person I lost to, my dad filmed that match and we went and watched it a thousand times over. And then in the state finals I actually wrestled the same guy and ended up beating him in the finals. And then I looked at all my big successes, being an All-American, all those things, they all came on the back of a bunch of failures. It’s like, okay, here’s the mistakes, here’s the problems, let’s focus on that. What are the tweaks and changes we gotta make to come back and do better next time? So for me, it was more like that. As painful as it was, and as much as I just wanted to give up, it’s more like, what are the changes? We saw it work before, I’d seen it before. I’d seen a company with a hundred people generates a lot of revenue and helps a lot of people. So I was able to see the fruits of it, and I loved that part of it, and I think part of me missed that part. I’m like, we just gotta figure out how to get back to there. We were there once, we just gotta figure out the model and how to change it and tweak it. Luckily for us, eventually we figured it out again. Monica: Yeah. So do you credit wrestling with that resilience that kept you in there, in the game and going and working hard? Russell: 100% I think most athletes I know do good in other things in life. Business, not all of them, some of them are dumb. I have a lot of friends who are train wrecks, but for me 100%. Wrestling and sports together teaches you so much stuff, right. Most people in their life, they don’t do sports, they don’t ever fail. They are in a thing where they’re studying, they’re learning to take a test, they get a grade and those kind of things. But they don’t have a chance to fail. Where most sports, especially wrestling for me, because typical wrestling season you have 30-40 matches and off season you’ve got another 80, so you’re looking at 100 matches a year. Most people don’t win 100 matches a year. You lose tons of those, right. So for me it was that way. I lost so many times and I think losing is such a good thing because you learn. Either you give up and walk away, and throw your hands in. Or you’re like, okay I gotta beat….and for me, especially when wrestling is like, you see the person, you know who they are, and next week they’re going to be at the same tournament again. I gotta beat this guy next week and it makes you so frustrated. So you watch the match, figure out what they’re doing, and then practice all week until you see them again, and you try again. If they beat you again, you’re like, “ah.” And you come back and keep doing it until the end. So it helps a lot. Monica: I agree. I’m starting to understand your drive here. So I talk a lot on my blog and my podcast about finding your life’s purpose. So what do you think is your life’s purpose, and does it include making a whole bunch of millionaires? Russell: I love making millionaires, that is fun. Monica: You’re good at it. Russell: Yeah, in our office now, I don’t know if you’ve seen, you’ve seen our 2 Comma Club awards right? So we have this hallway, it was the bathroom hallway, and everyone who makes a million dollars inside of Clickfunnels, gets a big plaque. And now both sides of the hallway from floor to ceiling are filled, and now the kitchen is completely filled too. And we’ve got maybe, 30 or 40 days before we have no more room in our office to hang up these plaques for everyone. But for me, to be honest, I didn’t know for a long time what my mission was, at all. I was excited by this, business, and sales, and marketing got me excited. But I always felt kind of shallow, what’s the point of all this? I don’t know. But I was learning it, and I was excited so I kept doing it. And honestly it wasn’t probably until about a year ago that I really started getting clarity on what my vision was, and I had a really good coach named Tara Williams I was working with at the time and she used to ask me, “Do you see the parallels of what you’re doing?” And I was like, “No, I’m just trying to make money.” And she’s like, ‘Do you need more money?” I’m like, “No.” and she’s like, “Then why do you keep doing this?” I was like, “Because…” And I started telling her stories of people, I’m like, okay I’ll rattle off a couple of quick stories that are fun. One is there is this girl named Annie Grace that works with us who, she beat alcohol addiction, but she couldn’t do it through a 12 step program, she found her own way to do it, she’d written books about it, and a year ago she came to our program, and she’s like, “I want to help change the world.” And she didn’t know how to do it. I was like, “I don’t know how to help people with alcohol addiction, but I know how to get your message out to a bunch of people.” So we gave her some tools and some training and she’s helped in the last 12 months over 50,000 people to overcome alcohol addiction. There’s a guy Chrisbeatcancer.com who got the death sentence as a 27 or 28 year old that he had cancer. And he decided not to do chemo therapy and thought you know, can I cure myself? I don’t ‘know. So he started going and tried to cure himself and eventually cures himself naturally. And he decided, “I need to get this message out to people.” So we’ve been able to help give him tools and systems to get that out. And he’s helped tens of thousands of people naturally cure themselves of cancer. Pamela Wible helps doctors who have been suicidal. She said, thousands of doctors from suicide through our tools and our training. I just look at all these people who have gifts that I don’t have. I can’t help a doctor not commit suicide, or I can’t help someone lose weight, I can’t…I don’t know those things, but because of what I’ve done I’ve learned how to get someone whatever their business, their product, their service out to more people, and so for me, I really feel like that’s my mission now. How do I empower entrepreneurs to actually change the world?  So ever since then, ever since I kind of got that, I’ve become hyper obsessed with entrepreneurs and how I can help them, how can I give them the tools, the inspiration, whatever it is? Because I’m a huge believer that entrepreneurs are the only people that can actually change the world. I don’t think politicians are going to do it. I don’t think government is going to do it. I see entrepreneurs who are obsessively compassionate about their thing that they’ve figured out, and that’s who changes the world. So for me, it’s just like, if I can empower each of them then that’s my mission, to help them be able to change their world. So that’s kind of my thoughts. Monica: I think that’s awesome. I love it so much. And I love watching you work. So I’ve seen you speak at some live events and I know you get up there and you command a room with thousands of people in it. But I also know you personally and socially I know you as really shy and reserved. I know you’d rather… Russell: I’m awkward. Monica: Not awkward, but shy. But I know you’d rather hang out in the corner and observe than be out working the room, which is what people would think if they see you at these live events. So which of these personalities comes more naturally to you? Like, what’s the real Russell? Russell: I’m 100% the awkward weird kid. No, it’s funny because two months ago I spoke at an event that had 9000 people in the room, and I was onstage and I just loved every second of it. It was so much fun. But then afterwards I was in the hallway and someone came to talk, ask me a question. And one of the guys who works with me, Dave Woodward, he told me, “You should see your body language. When you’re onstage, you’re body is just like excited. When someone comes up to you you’re just like, scared to death.” And I think for sure, that’s definitely more naturally who I am. My whole life I was awkward and nervous growing up. I didn’t have a ton of friends. The one thing I had growing up was wrestling. That was my thing, so I was friends with wrestlers. It’s funny, my 20 year high school reunion is this year, and I was looking at the list of everyone who was coming. I didn’t know anyone who was coming. None of the wrestlers were showing up, and I didn’t know anybody. I’m like, how did I not know anybody? I didn’t know anybody. I wasn’t friends with anyone. I went on a mission for our church and I was awkward and nervous there. In fact, I reconnected with my mission president recently and he told me, he came to our last event and he was like, “I would never in a million years, pegged you to be the one onstage doing that.” I’m like, oh. But it was funny because I remember consciously when I made that decision to try to figure that out. I had been selling things online behind the computer and I was comfortable there and I liked it. And I went to my very first internet marketing seminar, it was in Atlanta, Georgia, it was this guy name Armand Morin that put it on. And Ir emember I wanted to go because I didn’t know anybody else who was doing what I was doing and I felt lonely. And entrepreneurship I think a lot of times is lonely, because you share ideas with people and they usually look at you like, “Oh, wow. Good luck with that.” You know what I mean? Their eyes glaze over. So I didn’t have anyone to talk to about this whole thing, so I knew there was this event and all these entrepreneurs were going to come. So I was like, I’m going to come and just be with my people. I was so excited. So I went there and I remember I didn’t know how events were run back then, and back then the way that they were, a lot of people call them pitch fests. Where every speaker comes and they sell something, and I didn’t know that’s what it was. So I come to this event and the first speaker gets onstage and he talks for like 90 minutes, and at the end of it he sells something. And I was so confused. I was like, “Is he selling us something?” I didn’t understand what was happening. But I saw he was selling a $2000 thing, and all these people were jumping up and running to the back of the room. And I remember looking back, doing the math, “$2000, 4, 6, 8, 10… that guy made like $80,000 in an hour.” And then the next speaker gets up and he was selling a $5000 package. And he sold it and people were running back. And I did the math and he did like $150,000. And I watched this for 3 days, speaker after speaker. And at the end I was like, I have to learn how to do that. If someone can stand on a stage and in an hour make more money than I made in an entire year, or some people in an entire lifetime, I have to learn that art and how that works. And it’s funny because it didn’t come naturally. Someone invited me to speak in this seminar, so I went for the first time. It’s so embarrassing. I had a shaved head back then and glasses, and I always wore a suit and tie, because I thought that’s how, you know, you had to be a business person. And I went and stood up on stage, and I was super nervous and awkward and I tried to sell something and nobody bought. AndI was like, I will never do this again. And I didn’t for a long time. But then I kept seeing this happening. I would go to other events and I would see stuff and I was like, this is a skill set I have to learn. So I ended up spending the next, almost 10 years of my life doing that. About 2 ½ - 3 years I was flying around the country speaking at events, trying to learn the art of it, trying to get comfortable doing it. It was so scary. And then about 2 ½ years in, this was after we had the twins were born, and I remember I was at the Boise Airport one night, it was like 11:30 at night. I was the only one in the airport and I was miserable. I’m like, I’m flying somewhere else to go speak, and I just wanted to be home. And I remember texting Collette, I was like, “Hey, I’m retiring. I’m going to be done with this.” And she’s like, “You can’t. That’s how we make our money.” I’m like, ‘I know, I’ll figure out some other way. I’m done.” So I basically quit speaking and then I went and like, how do I replicate this on the internet? So we started doing teleseminars back then, and then webinars, and that became how we kind of did stuff. But I went out of my comfort zone to learn it, and became comfortable with it, and now, you know, I teach thousands of entrepreneurs how to do that. How to either do it on a webinar or on a teleseminar, or onstage. Because I think that having your own platform is the best way to get your message out there and be able to actually change people’s lives. It’s hard to do it if you’re going to be the awkward introverted person. So for me, I had to come out of that to be able to actually have the impact I really wanted. But it’s still, you go to church with me, I’m this shy guy inside. In my last ward, last church, nobody knew what I did. Nobody ever asked, it was kind of nice, so I was fine. In this ward, someone found out, they told people, and now people ask me questions. Monica: We all know. So I’m dying to know, because it doesn’t come naturally to you, I know that because I know you, but is there something that you like, do you have to mentally prepare somehow? Do you say something to yourself? How do you just prep yourself to go so far out of your comfort zone? Do you play the Rocky soundtrack in your mind? What do you do? Russell: It’s funny because I still get super nervous every time, and people are always like, “How do you get nervous? You do this all the time.” I’m like, I don’t know. It’s the same way with wrestling. Even though I was wrestling someone who wasn’t good, I would still get insane butterflies and nervousness and all that stuff. But as soon as I would step on the mat and shake their hand, as soon as you shook their hand, it would instantly disappear and you were in the zone. And for me, it’s the same way. I get so nervous. I think the biggest thing I’ve found, it’s funny, one of my friends, my employees caught me the other day, he didn’t know  I do this, but I always before I go find somewhere to go pray. And basically I just pray that I will be able to have the thoughts in my head to actually inspire people to do what they need to do. And that’s the biggest comforting thing to me, is just praying. Understanding that it’s not me, because I think a lot of times we get nervous because it’s like, this is us, and it’s like putting us on trial. Are they going to like me? Are they not going to like me? That freaks us out. And I think over the last few years I’ve come to the realization that my job is not to care if people like me, it’s like, can I actually have the impact to change this person? And so that’s become more important to me, so I always pray for that and that gives me, that helps calm my nerves. But then it’s still scary. I get out there and it’s like, even the smaller ones, where it’s smaller. I get so nervous and anxiety, and as soon as they introduce me and I come out and see everybody and it’s like, it goes away because I can serve, I can help. And it’s just so much fun. Monica: That’s so cool.

Dr. Pamela Wible is a physician, who is passionate about reducing physician and medical student suicide. She has been personally motivated after losing multiple colleagues in her own town in Oregon. Dr. Wible and I discuss how the healthcare system treats doctors, and the injuries that result. Dr. Pamela Wible travels the world discussing this epidemic, and has also given a TED Talk. She even consulted on "Do No Harm," the documentary that was reviewed on the previous episode!

Dr. Pamela Wible is a physician, who is passionate about reducing physician and medical student suicide. She has been personally motivated after losing multiple colleagues in her own town in Oregon. Dr. Wible and I discuss how the healthcare system treats doctors, and the injuries that result. Dr. Pamela Wible travels the world discussing this epidemic, and has also given a TED Talk. She even consulted on "Do No Harm," the documentary that was reviewed on the previous episode!

Pamela Wible! Pamela is a 51yo family medicine physician, emotional bungee jumper, and expert on physician suicide. I met Pamela as a keynote speaker on the topic of why doctors are killing themselves. We caught up and decided to record an interview for the podcast!During this conversation, we discuss her fondest childhood memories in a morgue with her father, how a pediatrician’s funeral service woke her up to the epidemic of physician suicide, and why she released her book on Juneteenth with endless optimism for a day that can change everything.I hope you enjoy!

My guest this week is Charlie Gillihan, my youngest brother. At the time of this recording, Charlie was a few weeks away from graduating from medical school. I was interested in his take on medical education in the 21st century since he not only went to medical school but is an experienced teacher himself. Charlie was very open about his own experiences in a way that I think will be helpful to many people. It was a great discussion as we explored many issues related to learning, medicine, and stress, including: What medical school should look like in the twenty-first century Evidence-based medical education Fixed vs. growth mindset as learners The brain’s ability to learn even without our conscious effort The challenges of learning in medical school What it takes to get through medical school, vs. what it takes to be a doctor High rates of physician burnout and suicide Mental health training in medical school What to look for in a great primary care doctor The importance of being listened to as a patient How people heal, and how it's not often because of medical treatment Nortin Hadler and the Number Needed to Treat (NNT) measure (see TheNNT.com) How to promote a healthy gut microbiome Charlie referenced the Whipple procedure—here's a link to that if you're interested: Whipple procedure. He also highlighted Pamela Wible's work on physician suicide; here's her TEDMed talk about it: Why Doctors Kill Themselves. Our grandfather whom Charlie mentioned, Dr. Alec Spencer, was a doctor for over 50 years in a small town in eastern Kentucky. Here's a write-up about his life and what made him so beloved by his patients and community: The Doctor Will Hear You Now. Here's more information about the author Vinay Prasad. Charlie referenced his book, Ending Medical Reversal which is available on Amazon. For more from Nortin Hadler, see The Citizen Patient and Worried Sick. (A percentage of each purchase made through these affiliate links will be used to support the podcast, at no additional cost to you.)  Charlie was enthusiastic about a measure called the Number Needed to Treat (NNT), which determines the number of people needed to treat in order to change one outcome for the better. For example, if 100 people get a treatment and 10 show improvement, compared to 9 out of 100 who got the placebo, then the NNT would be 100. That is, for every 100 people treated, one person would show improvement who wouldn't have gotten better without the treatment. The Voltaire quote Charlie cited was, “The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.” Charlie Gillihan was born and raised in Indiana and graduated from Columbia University with a degree in creative writing. After graduation he taught chemistry and other science courses for three years in the New York City public schools. He will graduate from New York University's School of Medicine in May 2019, and will continue his training in NYU's internal medicine residency. Charlie is fluent in Spanish, having spent considerable time in Central and South America, and his bilingualism is often useful in his clinical work. To see what he's up to, find him on Twitter.

Dr. Pamela Wible presents strategies for living your spiritual calling in medicine to medical students at University of the Incarnate Word School of Osteopathic Medicine in San Antonio, Texas. Three-hour block for second-year students with two-hour presentation and one-hour question/answer session. Presentation received a standing ovation. Enjoy. 

In this best of throwback episode, we explore one of my very first [and best] podcast interviews in 2015.  For the show notes, loads of resources, and tons of free stuff, visit the podcast website at www.doctorfreedompodcast.com.  Back in 2015, I was working on networking with other authors and experts who can speak to the issues that physicians face every day. For example, what can physicians do to become financially free and truly enjoy their job? How can they look forward to going to work every day?  That's why I thought I'd bring a special guest to the podcast, Dr. Pamela Wible. Pamela Wible, MD, is a family physician and pioneer in the ideal medical care movement. In 2004, Dr. Wible left assembly-line medicine and held town hall meetings where she invited citizens to design their own ideal clinic. Open since 2005,  Dr. Wible's innovative practice has inspired physicians to create ideal clinics nationwide. This interview reveals the following: – How she started up & maintains a simple, yet highly profitable (90%!) margin practice – The secrets to systematizing & automating a practice (Including revealing the billing tool she uses) – What critical skills doctors miss in their training (Hint: they do this every day) – How much money doctors should spend on advertising when they own their own practice – When physicians should go to counseling to maintain their sanity & inner peace (and who they shouldn't go to)

Today’s podcast on Redefining Medicine features Pamela Wible, MD. Known in the medical community as “Physicians’ Guardian Angel,” Dr. Wible has become America’s leading voice for ideal medical care through her continuous work with physician suicide, and the pervasive issue of mental health in the medical community. With parents who were both doctors, Dr. Wible experienced the ‘real dark underbelly’ of medicine as a child—which was only deepened through her tenure in medical school, and her own experience in being suicidal. After being forced to be a “factory worker” and practice “assembly-line medicine” in short increments—coupled with what she describes as rampant “human-rights violations” in medical training—Dr. Wible felt deeply abused, dehumanized, and dejected. Through leading town hall meetings, during which she asked communities to design their ideal medical clinics, Dr. Wible collected written testimony and subsequently designed a clinic based upon her findings. Describing the clinic as relationship-driven rather than production-driven, Dr. Wible models her practice today around what brings her joy, and continues to disseminate education surrounding the public health epidemic that goes largely unreported: physician suicide.

My guest this week is Dr. Pamela Wible, the world's leading expert on physician suicide. Join me in hearing Pam talk about her lightbulb moment, the wakeup call when she realized that she had a calling to stop good people from killing themselves.

Dr. Pamela Wible and Sydney Ashland share the top 5 ways to maintain your sense of self in medical training & beyond. 

  Physician suicide is an epidemic. How else do you describe 400 physicians per year ending their own lives which is over twice the national average? Why do so many doctors feel that the only escape from their pain is suicide? How do we end this epidemic and begin to heal the healers?   Dr. Pamela Wible is a family physician raised by two physician parents (a psychiatrist and pathologist) who found herself on a journey to help physicians deal with suicide. It is not a path that she expected to be on or even sought out. It came to her both through personal experience and later reflection on the others who struggled with suicide.   Dr. Wible dealt with what she described as 100% self imposed occupational suicidal ideation as the career of medicine she chose was not shaping up to be what she envisioned when starting medical school. Through the process of a hosting a number of town halls she created an ideal clinic that the community asked for and she has thrived practicing medicine and cured her dark thoughts.   Unfortunately, Dr. Wible also attended the third funeral of a physician colleague in her town in Oregon and felt that something must be wrong with the profession. Countless interviews, discussions, and investigations later - Dr. Wible has become an accidental expert on the subject of physician suicide and what must be done to combat it. She has also established an unofficial hotline for physicians, friends, and family members to contact to help the physicians in their lives who are in trouble.   In addition to these accomplishments, Dr. Wible has written two books, had numerous media appearances, spoken before physicians and medical students, and has even done a Ted Talk which is linked below. Dr. Wible is also a gifted conversationalist and turned my interview around midway through to ask me questions about anesthesiology and why I thought it is the most 'dangerous' specialty in medicine.   Dr. Pamela Wible is a family physician who is prominent for her work in helping physicians dealing with suicidal thoughts and burnout.   show notes https://youtu.be/qyVAtZ9VZ4Q Twitter for Dr. Wible Ideal Medical Care - Dr. Wible's Website:  The official website for Dr. Pamela Wible. Links to Ted Talks, lectures, blog posts, and interviews. Physician Suicide Help Line: If you're a distressed physician suffering and looking for help Dr. Wible is happy to offer assistance. Episode 009: My discussion with Dr. Stacia Dearmin where we discuss the toll that medical malpractice cases inflict on practicing physicians and its prevalence. Memorial for Andy Larson: This is the donation link to honor Andy's death with the Grand Rapids Choir of Men and Boys where he blossomed and served as a head chorister. YouTube for Paradocs: Here you can watch the video of my late son singing his solo on the Paradocs YouTube page. Patreon - Become a show supporter today and visit my Patreon page for extra bonus material. Every dollar raised goes towards the production and promotion of the show.

In our final episode with Dr. Pamela Wible , the Rotations team continues the in-depth and thought provoking discussion with the founder of the Ideal Medical Care Movement, Ted Talk contributor and nationally recognized voice for physician and medical student suicides. Ideal Medical Care website: http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/ This show is produced by Todd Fredricks, hosted by Nisarg Bakshi, engineered by Kyle P. Snyder and edited by Brian Plow. Rotations is a production of Media in Medicine, a family of medical storytelling initiatives developed by faculty and research staff from Ohio University Heritage College of Osteopathic Medicine and the Scripps College of Communication. Views and opinions expressed here are our own or those of our guests and do not necessarily represent those of the colleges or Ohio University. Follow us on Twitter @RotationsPcast or visit www.mediainmedicine.com to learn more about the show and what we’re up to.

Introduction Jamie Katuna is an absolutely awe-inspiring spoken word medical artist. She takes on controversial topics and issues in the healthcare space and creates dialogue through this medium. Her dream is to make healthcare a better place for all by challenging the status quo. Of note, she has been featured on the popular physician blog Kevinmd.com, and her videos have become so viral that she has already reached millions. Please listen in to this inspiring medical student, check out her links below, and get a look at the many great points of discussion in the notes section. Links: Facebook                 instagram              Youtube              snapchat: jamie_katuna   Example Video: "Doctors Get Paid Way Too Much, Right?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mSWCClM84E Notes Introduction -Played College basketball -Took a defer year, between college and medical school -Touro Osteopathic medicine unique situation, don't normally hear about a defer year -Able to dive into what she wants to do this year   How did you decide to take a year off? -had an opportunity to go to Tanzania -invited on the trip and the school allowed her to attend -wanted some time in between to recollect alongside taking the trip   How did the school feel about taking the year off?  -They were great about it -submitted a formal request with the school and they granted it -not too much push back -The school wants to take care of students message: medical students - you don't have to do things in a linear format -strength and conditioning coach, parents, many examples of people taking time off -many unique and variable paths, "create your own experience" -"medical school will always be there"   Why medical school?  -both parents are physicians -dad created business with neurointeroperative monitoring -mom does leadership consulting with hospitals -medical degree opens doors -a great means to create a lot of change -obsessed with health and fitness -There plenty of people don't feel passionate about the path -"feels necessary" instead of actually wanting to do it -Great Point: at what point in your life will you do what you want to do?   What are your current projects? -She creates specific art of combining medicine with spoken word and rap -She creates healthcare topics on an accessible platform - Already creating change through opinions and voice -Approaches something calculated in an artistic way -her approach: how do you get information from obscure journals into news feeds of people effected by the healthcare system -Take what you love and combine it with information you are learning  -Story of 15 year old - already cutting out classes to be a medical student, what else can you bring to the table? Keep your extracurricular and works that you love.  -Energy comes when you do what you love   What is your vision in medicine, what do you hope to create?  -short answer: "the best case scenario" -long answer: There are lots of details, I will get stumped on. I want more integrative care, more primary care, less tertiary care. I want a masters in public health to see physician's role in policy and planning take place. -I want to create the best-case scenario - what would the ultimate vision be for this specific niche   What have you heard about medical culture so far  -draining, demeaning -There's a hierarchy -A student is the bottom of the totem poll -Burnout is a word of abuse -Suicide epidemic with students and physicians -The healthcare system is unhealthy which is a paradox   How are you going to protect yourself in an environment like this? -Having all of Pamela Wible's teachings -ZDogg -Lots of people have given her support in her work -Videos and projects energize her -This is exactly what I want to be doing -In my downtime this is what I want to do any way -The work will sustain itself because I love it. -If you feel resistance when you are doing something - it is draining by nature -if you feel pulled to something - it's calling you - it is energizing.  -I'm being pulled by these projects to help people -Healthy for people to dive into their creative projects   What would you tell a younger self about the journey and getting started? -I was so lucky, my parents would read articles and discuss with me -embrace the creative side of me sooner -fell victim to mindset of - "just make sure application looks good" -really dive deep down inside and find what makes you excited and find weird creative projects -dive into creativity...but what usually stops us,  is fear...   On the topic of fear -What if people don't like it? -When you do something for others, then fear plays a role -but if the work is self-sustaining and self-energizing, it is impervious to outside perception -my sister has a popular blog: corakatuna.com -One of her articles: "Just [effing] start" -just decided to work on her projects -just by starting and putting it out there - it has had amazing impacts -fear does not come into consciousness when you are so in alignment with what you want to be doing -Medical students begin to be afraid of their voice, people get afraid of making mistakes   How do you deal with judgment (paraphrased) -Silver lining: I am creating dialogue -if someone hates it, I learn a new perspective -in medicine there is a right and wrong answer -Creative works are discussion based and have an opinion -I discuss things before I release it, I want to get a feel of opinions before I post something -Once it's out there I have to be vulnerable and courageous and accept criticism -I want to highlight: mentorship - ask yourself who's already doing it? - Study what works. Literal mentors to speak to - check/critique your work.  -if you know one person likes it, there's going to be more   Video on burnout -the term is abusive in itself -brutal to administration -feedback was astounding, resonated strongly -People saying: "this is exactly what I've tried to say for thirty years" - the only way to find out if it works is doing it first, finding out after.   Acceptance you can fail -if you aren't failing, you aren't learning -example: she created a video on gun use and medicine -had many individuals who hated the video - people calling her a failure -reframe the dislike to "debate and discussion" -Saying things that are controversial isn't bad, the controversial stuff is what we should be talking about. Where do we meet in our knowledge?  -Video was most successful because it pissed people off, when you create an emotion in someone... they are thinking about your video. -Change in failure: take failure and use it as fuel, I'm excited I do not know things, let's learn more. Shift the dialogue   What message do you have to younger pre-medical students and to early medical students? -Premeds: dive into "is this what you love?" Yes? Everyone has good grades and volunteer work. What makes you different, creative projects, extracurricular, etc. - To the Early Medical Students: I don't know how to message these people, it's like voicing my opinion upwards, not sure if I'm allowed to do that. (I highlighted this point because I do think it's an interesting question. Are younger students allowed to critique those ahead of them? How do people feel about this subject?) -Change the mindset of your dialogue: What is a road block and what is an opportunity? instead of being overcome by the system, look at the way the system is faulty [if you are upset by it] and be an agent of change and get involved in leadership.   How would you tell someone to work on their vision? -I would ask people what they do when they don't think anyone is going to see it -"some people sing in the shower", "some people write in their journals", "some people draw or make graphic design" -> That's the passion -hone in on those skills and "just effing start" -everyone has that thing that they love that they are not supposed to be doing in medicine, but that's exactly what you should be doing -be okay with not being ready and take the first step -when you are getting navigation guidelines - you don't get the next step until you take the first step   How would you imagine the perfect or ideal medical training -Centered on students and individualize students -Teach entrepreneurship in medicine -Teach leadership -Would promote creativity -Medicine should be hard, but it doesn't have to come with frustrations, bullying, or hazing -Things can be difficult but fulfilling -> we are all in this together  -Doesn't feel like competition... feels like teamwork and collaboration, entrepreneurship and leadership -There are certain aspects of medicine that make me feel terrible, so it means the things I must work on are so much more powerful -Reframe challenges into positive experiences for change   What is happiness to you? -fulfillment, helping other people, doing what you love     What is the best advice you've received from a mentor -"Don't worry about sounding too idealistic or dumb, stick to what you are doing, you are going to be a voice for your millennial physicians, and while older generations can be cynical or patronizing... don't let it distract from your focus and why you are doing this. Your generation is going to be the one that transforms healthcare because it has no other choice". -millennials are really the difference, they are the change agents -We base leaders off of age and experience but the truth is the truth. No matter where you are at in your position, you need to humble yourself and know there is something to learn.   Any favorite books, bloggers, or materials that have inspired you? -Pamela Wible - she's a positive voice for change and is awesome - doctor Pamela Wible is a good place to start (http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/blog/) ->Spoke to me for an hour or an hour and-a-half when I reached out to her ->She didn't have to make a phone call with you, that was in total alignment with her vision -Zdogg MD -> he has really great ideas and ted talks on new changes in medicine (http://zdoggmd.com/) -Dr. Mark Shapiro - explore the space podcast (http://thedoctorparadox.com/markshapiro/) -Dr. Paddy Barrett - Doctor paradox (http://thedoctorparadox.com/) -Silly but informative show - Doctor I am Sorry   Any significant conflict in your life that helped you improve as a person  -broke her left foot 3 times in basketball -whole friend circle is her team, so it was a difficult experience to adjust -Tried to come back to fast before things were healed -heal myself before I get back into basketball and learning that lesson. Learn to take care of my body. -Learned how to become a support through this experience -There is an opportunity in every challenge -Important to have a reframe to create the positive out of situations: finding the silver lining (a common theme in happy people)   How do you think it feels when something isn't cultivating health but is injuring you? The example being going into medicine and working in something you do not love -What did you do when constantly injured yourself -Had to look at my values, I thought my whole identity was playing again -What I needed to do was reidentify my identity   How do you cultivate a rest time [into medicine]? -pushing and pushing it [Jamie's ankle injury], kept me out for longer -by trying to stay in the game, I was kept out of the game -if I said, I need to rest, I need to take a step back, then I could have come back in a lot sooner -in medicine: pushing pushing pushing, doing something you don't like, feeling burnt out... this isn't sustainable. Taking a step back, reidentify your values and be able to reenter the game again.   

In our second episode with Dr. Pamela Wible , the Rotations team continues the in-depth and thought provoking discussion with the founder of the Ideal Medical Care Movement, Ted Talk contributor and nationally recognized voice for physician and medical student suicides. The team continues to address the realities of practicing medicine independent of the large hospital systems with Dr. Wible. However, the discussion continues to come back to Physician and medical student suicide. Dr. Wible's passion for the topic takes tangible form in the discussion as she breaks down the steps any medical community can do to get away from the powerpoint presentations and meaningfully address the stressors and pressures that drive doctors and students to take their own lives. Ideal Medical Care website: http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/ This show is produced by Todd Fredricks, hosted by Nisarg Bakshi, engineered by Kyle P. Snyder and edited by Brian Plow. Rotations is a production of Media in Medicine, a family of medical storytelling initiatives developed by faculty and research staff from Ohio University Heritage College of Osteopathic Medicine and the Scripps College of Communication. Views and opinions expressed here are our own or those of our guests and do not necessarily represent those of the colleges or Ohio University. Follow us on Twitter @RotationsPcast or visit www.mediainmedicine.com to learn more about the show and what we’re up to.

In this special series of episodes, the Rotations team welcomes Pamela Wible, M.D., family practitioner, founder of the Ideal Medical Care Movement, Ted Talk contributor and nationally recognized voice for physician and medical student suicides. In this episode, Dr. Wible talks about her unique personal connection to healthcare and how it influenced her decision to start the Ideal Medical Care Movement. She asked the question: what happens when both medical practitioners and patients are not happy with the way care is being delivered? The answer is to draw influence and design ideas from one's own community. Dr. Wible did just that and opened the first clinic in the nation designed entirely by patients. Dr. Wible also tackles the topic of physician and medical students suicide, as she has spent a significant portion of her career publicly addressing it and shedding light on a very troubling and often ignored problem in our medical communities. Ideal Medical Care website: http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/ This show is produced by Todd Fredricks, hosted by Nisarg Bakshi, engineered by Kyle P. Snyder and edited by Brian Plow. Rotations is a production of Media in Medicine, a family of medical storytelling initiatives developed by faculty and research staff from Ohio University Heritage College of Osteopathic Medicine and the Scripps College of Communication. Views and opinions expressed here are our own or those of our guests and do not necessarily represent those of the colleges or Ohio University. Follow us on Twitter @RotationsPcast or visit www.mediainmedicine.com to learn more about the show and what we’re up to.

September is Suicide Awareness and Prevention Month, and we have an important episode on the topic featuring Robyn Symon and Dr. Pamela Wible to discuss the film Do No Harm (www.DoNoHarmFilm.com). Robyn Symon is the writer, producer, and director of Do No Harm. Dr. Wible is a family physician who is featured in the film for her commitment to physician suicide prevention. For tickets to the NY pre-screenings, go to: https://donoharm-ny.eventbrite.com To schedule a screening at your institution, email: info@DoNoHarmFilm.com Dr. Wible is available 24/7 at: http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/contact/ National Suicide Prevention Line: 1-800-273-8255 Dr. Wible's Keynote in Chicago referenced in the podcast: http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/33-orthopaedic-surgeon-suicides-how-to-prevent-34/ Previous Behind the Knife episodes addressing wellness and burnout with tips for surgeons are available: Dr. Taylor Riall on Burnout - http://www.behindtheknife.org/podcast/dr-taylor-riall-tackles-burnout-and-importance-of-coaching-surgeons/ Dr. Charles Brunicardi on Work-Life Balance - http://www.behindtheknife.org/podcast/dr-charles-brunicardi-surgeon-songwriter-performer/ Dr. Rothenberger on Burnout - http://www.behindtheknife.org/podcast/dealing-with-complications-and-burnout-dr-rothenberger-tackles-difficult-issues-no-one-likes-to-talk-about-2/

Hint: It starts with you, but if it ends with you, you’ll never have the impact that you actually want. On today’s episode Russell talks about a webinar in which Kaelin Poulin will sell Clickfunnels rather than Russell. He then goes into detail of how the attractive character of Clickfunnels is evolving. Here are some of the interesting things happening in today’s episode: Find out why some critics of Russell were correct when they said you can’t sell a business based on an attractive character. Hear how Russell is getting passed the attractive character issue by helping it to evolve 3 levels deep. And find out why Kaelin Poulin is the perfect person to pitch Clickfunnels, besides Russell. So listen below to find out how Clickfunnels is evolving it’s attractive character. ---Transcript--- What’s up everybody? Good morning, welcome to Marketing Secrets podcast. Today is a very, very special webinar day. Alright everyone, I’m pumped for today because today there is a webinar happening, selling Clickfunnels, and guess what? I’m not the one selling it. I’m freaking out, I’m so excited. There’s a principle inside this that I want to share with you guys that I think is groundbreaking, life changing, business evolving amazingness, so I’m excited to share with you during today’s episode. So hopefully if you guys have read the Dotcom Secrets book, or the Expert Secrets book, or listened to me talk at all over the last decade of my life as I have been talking to entrepreneurs and sharing the most important things. One of the most important things I talk about is building out your attractive character. The attractive character is the personality of the brand that will be communicating with your audience, that builds rapport, that sells and does all those kind of things. And it’s interesting, because the flack I get often from people who hear me talk about attractive characters like, “Oh well, if you focus your business on attractive character, you can’t ever sell your brand.” And it’s kind of annoying, but alas, those critics are all right. It is very, very difficult to sell a personality brand. It’s only been done a few times that I’ve seen and it’s hard. Because if you are the personality, it’s really hard to sell the brand. But then on top of that, having the personality is what lets you build and scale a brand at record heights, faster than you ever could without it. So where is the middle ground here? That’s the thing. When we were building Clickfunnels, I thought a lot about this. Someday Clickfunnels is probably going to be worth, I don’t know, a bajillion dollars or more, and maybe when I’m like 90 I want to retire and it would be cool to sell it at that point, but it’s going to hard if 90 year old Russell is the dude on the pitch videos. And they’re like, “Russell, when you die, so does Clickfunnels.” That’s not good for anybody, including me. So I was searching, how do we do this? How do we do it? And I remember before we launched I was like, okay, we’re going to use attractive character because we know it works, and it’s going to be the fuel that launches this thing into the stratosphere. But I was like, long term it can’t just be me. It has to shift. I didn’t know how that was going to work, or I didn’t know behind it, but I was like, I know we’re going to do that. We’re going to hopefully build a community where other people become funnel experts, other people are teaching and doing this stuff, it’s not just Russell. And I’ve noticed, as I’ve been watching, that’s happened. A lot of what’s been cool is other people are teaching and doing it. If you look at most of the industries, there chiro guru’s teaching funnels now, there’s dental guru’s teaching funnels. There’s gym owner guru’s.  It’s amazing, I love it. The more of that happening, the better for me and I love it. But it didn’t really address the whole attractive character thing, because it wasn’t being published from headquarters, from corporate or whatever you want to call it. It’s been interesting, I think the first evolution of a business, is that you usually, or whoever that person is in your business, is the attractive character first. And that awesome, but eventually what needs to happen for you start going to the next level, is the attractive character can’t just stay with you. If it just stays with you it can’t get scalable. So if you’ve watched over the last two or three years, you’ve probably noticed me consciously doing this, I share less and less of Russell Brunson stories, and I share more and more of the stories of our members. So our success stories, our students, they become the attractive characters, that’s the second level. So instead of me talking about Russell, I talk about Kaelin Poulin, Brandon and Kaelin. I talk about Trey Lewellen, I talk about all the different people. I’m talking about them and they become the attractive characters. My success stories become the attractive characters, they are the practical application of what I’m teaching and talking and telling about. So that’s the next level. And then there’s a third level, that for those who have been paying attention, you’ve probably noticed me do over the last 7 or 8 months, where the attractive character is not me, and it’s not my clients, it’s the clients of my clients. So if you notice my language patterns now, when I talk about people inside the Clickfunnels community, I’m not talking about, “Brandon and Kaelin made a million bucks.” I’m talking about “Brandon and Kaelin have changed the lives of 1.3 million women. These women who struggled with weight loss their entire lives. They now are able to lose weight.” Pamela Wible who has been able to help doctors who commit suicide, and how she saves their lives, and now the doctor’s life has been saved because of whatever. I could go on and on with all these success stories. But what’s interesting, notice my language patterns, I’m not just talking about the person. Not talking about Brandon and Kaelin making millions of dollars, because that’s good, it’s better than Russell making a million dollars, but then the second level is they’re the attractive character, they’re making millions of dollars, but the third level is talking about the success stories of their clients. That’s 3 levels deep. So you’ll notice me, as I talk now and I teach and share and present, I’m always talking about 3 levels deep. Not my stories, not my success stories-stories, but their client’s success stories. And that’s like the third layer. So that’s kind of what you’re looking at. How do you get to those different layers? And it’s not something that happens immediately. If you start day one talking about the success stories of your success stories, that doesn’t really work. And some businesses aren’t ever going to lean towards that, where it’s actually possible. I think they are though. Let’s say for Kaelin’s business. She’s lost weight, she’s helped other people lose weight, but then the real impact is not that her people lost weight, now they’re better wives and better mothers, now they can serve more in the community, look at all the impact that they’re having. So it’s like, the impact of your clients is the next level. Anyway, there’s three levels deep of the attractive character. So for me, we gotta transition from Russell being the attractive character, to our students, our users, our customers being the attractive characters to the customers of our customers, are ultimately the attractive character. They are the fruits of this whole thing. Alright, so that’s the first thing I want to talk about. Now I want to step back one level. For me now, again, for the last 3 ½ almost 4 years it’s been Russell onstage talking about Clickfunnels, Clickfunnels, Clickfunnels, and this week, today in 3 ½ hours is the first time where we’ve done this. Kaelin Poulin is doing the Funnel Hacks webinar. It’s her telling her stories, her experience, her everything, but she’s selling my product at the end. So my success story is now becoming the attractive character, which is so exciting and so cool. And basically, I’m excited to see what she does. I gave her my slides and said, “Look, the offer has to stay the same, because it’s still the Funnel Hacks offer, that’s what we’re offering people, but you have the right to tell your own story, sell it how you would sell it.” So she’s been working for the last month and a half doing this and it’s going to be really fun to see her do it today. And if it works well, then I’m going to probably go to other one’s of my students and have them create presentations on their success stories, and then selling my offer. And hopefully, if we do one of these a month, over the next twelve months, we could have 12 of these, or 24 over the next 2 years, or who knows how many. But now it’s like, Russell and my presentation and my story becomes one of many different ways to sell. I’m one of many attractive characters inside of Clickfunnels. And that now, makes my business very sellable. Because if Russell disappears it doesn’t matter. We have 12 other people. We have Kaelin’s presentation that’s selling people, we have so and so’s presentation. We have other people, and that’s really the excitement and the magic for me. So I’m excited. This is the practical application of 3 ½ - 4 years of trying to brainstorm and think through how this is even possible. And I never knew until, it’s funny because I’ve told Kaelin 4 or 5 times, “Man, I wish you could be the attractive character for Clickfunnels. I wish you could be the pitch person.” And she always laughs. Then 2 months ago I was like, “Wait, what if you really were? What if we did something like this?” and we kind of put together a plan and idea, and Brandon and Kaelin were like, “Yes, we’re willing to do that.” I’m like, “That’s awesome.” So it’s going to be good for everybody. They get royalty on all the sales that happen through this webinar funnel, and through all future sales that come through it, so it’s a huge win for them. It’s a huge win for us, it gets a different angle, different attractive character, different person out there. And they can still focus on their business long term. They spent the time to develop this presentation and they’ll get paid on it for the rest of their lives. So it’s kind of a super cool win-win. Anyway, for you guys, start thinking about that. Start thinking about, obviously the first phase where you’re at, you need to double down on the attractive character, it’s important. Even if you’re like, you read some stupid business book where someone’s like, “If your face is the brand, you can never sell your company.” Just realize that person is not creative or unique, and they have no vision on how to actually change the world. So don’t listen to them, focus on the attractive character is important. It’s going help people have connection with you and with your brand, otherwise they’re going to be going based on features and they’re going to leave you when someone comes out with a better mousetrap. So that’s number one. Number two then, focus on helping people have as much success as humanly possible, so you can transition to them becoming the attractive characters. And then someday, training those people on how they can actually give a presentation. One thing that was not strategic but looking back now makes me seem like I’m a genius, is we’ve taught how many hundred thousand people how to do my presentation, how to do a perfect webinar, so it’s like, there are people we’ve developed that can do that. So find your success stories and then help them, train them to be able to give a presentation to sell your products and services through their lens, through their view. And then third, start focusing on the success stories of your success stories. That’s the third tier of this. And that’s when you’re focusing on the impact of your success stories. And that’s really the level, I think where you have to get the attractive character to really have the impact you want.  And obviously, like we said, someday if you did want to sell or step away from the business or whatever, it takes some pressure off your shoulders. So anyway, I’m excited, I’m pumped. This is the first application of this concept and we’re going to see how it goes today with Kaelin. She’s going to crush it, she’s amazing. She’s one of the best presenters, one of the best sales people I’ve ever seen, and she’s got such a good heart. You guys have heard her story. She’s changed 1.3 million womens lives. Who does that? It’s insanely cool. Her husband Brandon is just amazing as well. I’ve never seen somebody execute as consistently and as quickly and as perfectly as him. And it’s fun watching those two as a couple having so much success, and they deserve every minute. If anyone is ever like, “Oh they got lucky.” No, they’re insanely hard workers, insanely talented, they follow directions, they model, they’re able to put their own angles on things, their own spins, they improve everything they touch, and they are just amazing human beings. So I’m proud of them. This is like this really cool, unique culmination of the last 3 ½ - 4 years of their story and having them come back now and pitch and present the product that was the one that made them have all the success. So it’s amazing. Anyway, I hope you guys have an amazing day today. I cannot wait. Wish Kaelin luck, by the time you guys hear this, it will have already happened. But if you want to go see the presentation, I’m sure we’ll have a replay at ladybossmovement.com. Again, thanks for everything you guys and we’ll talk to you soon. Bye.

Pamela Wible is a Family Practice physician who has taken on the cause of physician suicide. We discuss the acuity of the problem and the disconnect between public understanding and the reality of the problem. Sadly, Dr Wible is probably correct when she surmises that almost every physician in America knows someone in medicine who killed themselves. The conversation also moves through how the problem can begin to move towards improvement. Key Learnings Why Dr. Wible took on the issue of physician suicide 951 physicians dead by suicide How do non-physicians understand the idea of physician suicide Why physicians are at high risk for suicide The SOAP note approach to the issue of physician suicide as a societal issue Why the issue is so difficult to discuss The impact of “sucking it up” Dealing with tragedy as part of the solution Where physicians go to cry Suicide awareness & prevention as a recruiting & retention tool Reaching out for help Links Dr. Wible's home page “What I've learned from 949 doctor suicides” Do No Harm film site

Pamela Wible is a Family Practice physician who has taken on the cause of physician suicide. We discuss the acuity of the problem and the disconnect between public understanding and the reality of the problem. Sadly, Dr Wible is probably correct when she surmises that almost every physician in America knows someone in medicine who killed themselves. The conversation also moves through how the problem can begin to move towards improvement. Key Learnings Why Dr. Wible took on the issue of physician suicide 951 physicians dead by suicide How do non-physicians understand the idea of physician suicide Why physicians are at high risk for suicide The SOAP note approach to the issue of physician suicide as a societal issue Why the issue is so difficult to discuss The impact of “sucking it up” Dealing with tragedy as part of the solution Where physicians go to cry Suicide awareness & prevention as a recruiting & retention tool Reaching out for help Links Dr. Wible’s home page “What I’ve learned from 949 doctor suicides” Do No Harm film site

There is a nationwide epidemic happening right now. And it's not some terrible virus, it's not because of anything we've had to eat or drink. It is an occupational hazard of the hospital environment: Physician suicide. Dr. Pamela Wible, Founder of the Ideal Medical Care Movement, shares her unique approach to this preventable plague. Produced by James E. Siegler. Music by Andrew Sacco, Damiano Baldoni, Kevin McLeod, Jason Shaw, and Rafael Archangel. Voiceover by Patrick Green. BrainWaves' podcasts and online content are intended for medical education only and should not be used for clinical decision making. REFERENCES Kesselheim AS and Austad KE. Residents: workers or students in the eyes of the law? The New England journal of medicine. 2011;364:697-9. Witte TK, Fitzpatrick KK, Joiner TE, Jr. and Schmidt NB. Variability in suicidal ideation: a better predictor of suicide attempts than intensity or duration of ideation? J Affect Disord. 2005;88:131-6. Goldman ML, Shah RN and Bernstein CA. Depression and suicide among physician trainees: recommendations for a national response. JAMA Psychiatry. 2015;72:411-2. Schernhammer E. Taking their own lives -- the high rate of physician suicide. The New England journal of medicine. 2005;352:2473-6. Schernhammer ES and Colditz GA. Suicide rates among physicians: a quantitative and gender assessment (meta-analysis). Am J Psychiatry. 2004;161:2295-302. Sen S, Kranzler HR, Krystal JH, Speller H, Chan G, Gelernter J and Guille C. A prospective cohort study investigating factors associated with depression during medical internship. Archives of general psychiatry. 2010;67:557-65.

March 10, 2018 keynote address to the American Medical Student Association discussing the Do No Harm documentary. Delivered by Dr. Pamela Wible, Robyn Symon, John Dietl with poignant Q/A with premedical and medical students.

Quality Talk Podcast episode 24, hosted by Jodie Jackson, Jr. features guest Dr. Pamela Wible. They discuss the alarming topic of physician suicides.

How to know if medical school is the right path for you. Plus free session with mentors Dr. Pamela Wible and Daniel Herzberg who can help you figure out what to do next.

In this episode John describes his involvement with nonprofit boards. He lists the five major benefits of volunteering with a nonprofit, including how it builds new skills and expedites career transition. He also reviews Dr. Pamela Wible's book Physician Suicide Letters Answered.

Dr. Pamela Wible and Sydney Ashland discuss the top 5 factors that lead to physician PTSD, a common yet underreported condition among medical doctors.

I felt like they were trying to slaughter my soul in medical education. I held onto it... the way that I did that by the way was to continue crying and feeling, I refused to get numb. I know they wanted me to become numb, and I couldn't allow myself to stop crying, because I felt like the moment I stopped crying, they would win. I was not willing to let go of my soul. Dr. Pamela Wible is a family physician in Eugene, Oregon and founder of Ideal Medical Care, a Family practice model designed by patients and for patients. This is a woman on one mission, to bring the humanity back to the healing profession.    You may know Pamela through her work studying the taboo subject of physician suicide, but her message is ultimately about uplifting, humanizing, and transforming medical care. To spread her voice she has been featured on mediums such as NPR, TEDMED, Ted Talks, ABC News, CNN, Washington Post, and much more. She has authored books including Pet goats and Pap smears, 101 medical adventures to open your heart and mind, and Physician Suicide Letters rated a #1 Amazon best Seller in Medicine and Psychology. Dr. Pamela Wible is a leader of a revolutionary but simple mission, to heal the healers. It is by living out this dream she undoubtedly is healing the masses.    My call to action for this week is for everyone listening to support Pamela's latest work in the “Do No Harm” documentary where we learn about Doctors who take their own lives and the systemic issues that are causing it. I ask each listener to go onto Kickstarter and pledge at least $1, but come on guys can we make it $5? Click on the link above and support this groundbreaking documentary.    Check out Pamela's Website and be a part of the healer revolution: http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/  *** Join The Happy Doc Team! Link in to the social media, subscribe to the podcast, and join the e-mail list on the sidebar! Facebook       Instagram      Twitter Link Link   Sample of the conversation: A Deep Depression My only value, as a physician in the United States, felt like a revenue-generating robot for corporate medicine, in seven-minute increments. If I wasn't willing to just do a good job in seven minutes, document everything, and bill at a higher level than I actually provided treatment, I was not considered a good doctor in the United States. I mean the only thing that dug me out of that first year of medical school, that depression, was this vision that I had for my future. So when my future vision was crushed by the reality of what it's like to practice what I call assembly line medicine, I felt like I was adrift and there was no reason to be alive. What is a common "blind spot" that you have noticed when it comes to your work in healing health professionals? I think the blind spot is that we suffer silently and we stay in denial for way too long individually, we don't even recognize that we're suffering until it gets out of hand. So I really really believe that we should start bonding with each other as brothers and sisters in medicine, asking for help, sharing our stories.   And, you know I don't think I even answered your previous question, which is how do I handle all these phone calls which are so terrible, and how I handle them is I listen to them [the doctors]. Then I recognize my shared humanity with the person on the phone and I left them know, that they are having the normal reaction that anyone would have to sort of a sick medical education system I think we can all agree that we can do better in our medical education system than we are doing now.  What does your ideal medical system look like? The foundation would be certainly holistic and inclusive of all healing modalities and not just reductionist allopathic medicine. Embracing Osteopathic Medicine, Acupuncture, Mind-body medicine... you know all these different types of healing modalities have been around for centuries and have been discarded because I guess they're not easily reimbursed and they don't have the medical pyrotechnics like all the cool stuff that we're discovering... I would embrace everyone so it would be inclusive. Also we need to use modern teaching techniques. When you take a gifted child who is highly-sensitive and self-motivated, teaching them by terror is counter productive. They are already wanting to learn you don't need to scare them, or hit them, or terrorize them, so I think motivating people with rewards and positivity [is better], versus the pimping fear-based educational system. The third thing I want to say is, I really do believe medical students should design their own medical schools, just like patients should design their own medical clinics. Being 100% there for your patients: "I helped this woman lose her virginity" I have gone with a patient, I won't give all the details, this is kind of one of my more favorite stories, but (and I do have her permission to share this but I can't give too much detail), I had a patient who was wanting to be sexually active and was very scared of having sex.  She wanted to have kids and she was in her later twenties and she just had anxiety about feeling unsafe with men.  We got to the point where I literally went with her on a date, almost...I mean it's the wildest story which I probably can't reveal online, but just put it this way, I helped this woman lose her virginity, okay, and I did this as part of my job of being a doctor and helping somebody who wanted to have a child and not be afraid of men. For more of the conversation, listen to the audio!!!

This FREE audiobook (the unabridged recording of Physician Suicide Letters—Answered by Pamela Wible, M.D.) is read by the author and is dedicated to all medical students, to every child who has ever dreamed of being a doctor, and to all those who have lost their lives in pursuit of healing others. PLEASE SHARE WIDELY. You may save a life.

Dr. Pamela Wible, nominated the "most inspiring individual" by the graduating class of Loyola University Chicago Stritch School of Medicine, delivers the Commencement Speech on May 20, 2017.

I remember when I signed my contract and decided I was joining my colleague in her practice, I actually started crying because I was so excited... because this was my lifelong dream to be out on my own, do my own thing, and not be told how many patients to see, and in what timeframe. I remember writing my first note that was not attached to insurance, and it felt so liberating. I wrote a facebook post that said: "Oh my gosh, I don't have to do a review of systems that doesn't apply to me." Introduction Dr. Ashley Maltz is a doctor who has carved her own path in medicine. She practices as an integrative physician in Austin, Texas and  is a happy doctor who practices in a way that is congruent to her values. She treats patients using multiple healing modalities and aids them in finding their life's purpose. Dr. Ashley is a strong resource as she only recently began her own form of practice, partnering with another physician in Austin. In this episode, we dive into the struggles Ashley faced within her medical career, the positive shift she felt once she started to live her dream, the various opportunities one has in a medical career, and much more. Enjoy the episode! Sample of the conversation Obstacles on the Journey and creating a new path There have been many. I'm not one of the people who wanted to be a doctor and it was the only thing I could ever imagined doing, I'm more of a Psychologist at heart, a nutritionist, and a spiritual individual. ​I always had this vision of bringing that into my practice. Unfortunately through residency and through medical school, you don't get a lot of time to do those things and focus on them. And then, bringing them into clinic, you know... just trying to bring it all in, into a clinic, it became a little too much for my system, so I decided to leave the insurance system and carve a path of my own. How did you find mentors and finally make changes you were looking for? I think I have always sought that out throughout my career, I was always different. Even in med school, I was the "hippy chick". There were others, but I was one of them. I always saw things differently, always from a bigger perspective. Even though we were treating this patient's heart disease, can they afford their medications and what can we put in their body? I always gravitated towards mentors who saw the bigger picture. The way I decided to go after this (I always knew what I wanted, which was a healing community center), I did Pamela Wible's teleseminar course for Living Your Dream and at the retreat I just made a declaration and decided to go after it, because I was feeling completely depleted from my employed job. There were a lot of plusses and pros, and it was a great idea to be in that position, but I wanted to develop personally, spiritually, take back my health on a deeper level. I just knew I had to officially go after it and do it. The best advice Ashley received I would say it's come more recently and it's "be true to yourself"​. It's as simple as that... if you are not happy and you see another way of doing something, just do what's right for you. So many times, especially as givers and nurturers we want to please other people, and that's not what this life is about. I'm not saying be selfish, or narcissistic or arrogant (there's a fine line between all of those things), but it's really about knowing what you want and going after it. Whether that's going to break some rules, or have people talking, or some gossip, or if you hurt someone along the way (like a boss), it's okay they will hopefully want you to succeed and be happy. That's more what life is about then trying to please everyone. Please take care of yourselves Please just take care of yourselves. Residency is really hard, med school is really hard, life can be hard, but it's really not worth taking your life over. I know it feels like it at some point, but reach out to others, there are people out there to support you and love you, even if you don't know who they are. Hope is just a phone call away so, that's my main message. And really go after what you want, bring joy into whatever you do For more of the conversation, listen to the audio! *** Contact Ashley www.westholisticmedicine.com www.ashleymaltzmd.com asmaltz1120@gmail.com *** Join The Happy Doc Team! Link in to the social media, subscribe to the podcast, and join the e-mail list in the sidebar Facebook       Instagram      Twitter Link Link  

Dr. Pamela Wible reports on the three simple things she says to suicidal physicians (these strategies apply to anyone who is suicidal). 1) I don’t say anything. I listen without judgement. 2) Then I say, “You are not alone.” 3) Finally, I say, "Call me anytime." For additional details read her article "What I say to suicidal physicians" and her book, Physician Suicide Letters—Answered.

Dr. Pamela Wible digs into the controversy surrounding the words we use in medicine and the vocabulary of our patriarchal reductionist medical model that too often disempowers and dehumanizes medical students, doctors, and patients. To truly do no harm she recommends that we use the language of truth, empathy, and patient empowerment.  

Pamela Wible is a physician who was disgruntled with the traditional medical paradigm. She chose to follow her dream and asked her patients how they'd like to be treated. The results were her creating of an ideal medical clinic that is now inspiring other medical professionals and becoming a grassroots movement across the US. 

Pamela Wible, M.D., family physician and advocate for the mental health of medical students and doctors, shares her personal story of depression, diagnoses and then offers a treatment for the physician suicide epidemic. The question of the day concerns a medical student with overwhelming debt. One listener who leaves a review of the show and sends a screenshot to info@insidetheboards.com will win a signed copy of Pamela's book "Physician Suicide Letters: Answered." 

Pamela Wible, MD

**Parental discretion is advised** More than 1 million Americans this year alone. What will more than 1 million Americans experience this year? They will all lose their physician to death by suicide. What?!!! Why? How? I thought doctors were happy, smart people that had life all figured out? Then why are we loosing 400 of them a year; the equivalent of an entire medical school? You can connect with Dr. Wible at http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/ You can find Dr. Wible's TEDMED talk here: http://bit.ly/1YrDrAI You can purchase Dr. Wible's book here: http://amzn.to/20ygTjq

Pamela Wible, MD is a Family Physician who is passionate about raising awareness about Physician Suicide. This is the audio portion of a Google Hangout from the Suicide Prevention Social Media community on March 20, 2016. Panelists on this program include April Foreman, Bart Andrews, and Mike Sevilla. More information at this link http://spsmchat.com/2016/03/19/pamelawible-chats-with-spsm-using-some-to-tackle-physician-suicide-32016-9pct/

This is it, Safety Rangers. This is the podcast you have been waiting for. As a follow-up to last week's Venomous Media Review, I sit down and get naked with the Guardian Angel of Physicians - Dr. Pamela Wible. We discuss her book, Physician Suicide Letters and the state of wellness in general. After that, I review "The Gilded Razor" a brand new memoir of addiction and recovery by Sam Lansky and we wrap things up with the Toxicology Week in Review from February 1 - 11 and cover such disparate topics as the first convocation of the Supreme Court, the murder of Nguyen Van Lem, Robinson Crusoe and Punxsatawney Phil, Darryl Strawberry and the 47 Ronin, Jack Kevorkian, Cassius Clay, Gomer Pyle, the Devil's footprints, George Harrison's tonsils, Japanese internment, Tom & Jerry, the Simpson's Comic Book Guy and everything else that is important and cool on the Greatest Podcast in the World. 

Poison Boy interrupts the Super Bowl hijinks to throw down some tox knowledge, covering one of the most infamous poisonings in history - the Teikoku Ginko bank murders. Then in the Venomous Media Review we discuss one of the most important books of the year - Physician Suicide Letters Answered by Pamela Wible. We wrap up the podcast with This Week in Tox History as we discuss such disparate and incredible events as the first production of Romeo and Juliet, the Great Smog of London, the Brenda Spice murders and The Boomtown Rats. We discuss the posthumous execution of Oliver Cromwell and drug busts involving The Grateful Dead, The Jefferson Airplane and Linda McCartney as well as the Lindbergh Kidnapping, the Opium Wars, Minnie the Moocher and everything else that happened in the history of the world on the world's greatest podcast!

Dr Pamela Wible is a Family Medicine physician in Eugene, Oregon who runs one of the most unique medial practices in the United States today. It is a healthcare center designed not by doctors, but by patients. She is the author of 'Pet Goats and Pap Smears' and founder of the site IdealMedicalCare.org. Having spoken at TEDMED and Tedx she is truly a unique and passionate voice for physicians who are struggling in todays healthcare infrastructure.  This is an enlightening conversation on topics from why you shouldn't think of yourself as having 'burnout' and how to create your 'Ideal Clinic'.  If you enjoyed this episode please ‘Subscribe‘ on iTunes or Stitcher. Enjoy! Selected Show Notes: Pamela Wible Ideal Medical Care Physician Retreats Pet Goats and Pap Smears by Pamela Wible TEDx Salem - How To Get Naked With Your Doctor by Dr Pamela Wible Twitter: @PamelaWibleMD

Matt Wiese aka “Luther Reigns” is a former wrestler and actor. He and our hosts discuss drug use, professional sports, and his new movie. He is joined by Dr. Pamela Wible, physician suicide prevention advocate.

Pamela Wible, M.D., is a family physician whose pioneering model has been replicated nationwide. Her model is featured in Harvard School of Public Health's Renegotiating Health Care, a textbook examining major trends with the potential to change the dynamics of health care. Dr. Wible is author of Pet Goats & Pap Smears, Amazon's #1 top-rated medical e-book in 2013. Her essay on physician suicide in last month's Washington Post was the third most read national news story of the day. Dr. Wible has been interviewed by CNN, ABC, CBS, and she is a frequent guest on NPR.

Dr. Pamela Wible became a doctor. But then, to her horror, she discovered something outrageous behind the scenes about the medical profession. Find out what happened to her, and how she went about doing something fantastic about it.

Can laughter be the best medicine? Is sharing a story more effective than writing a prescription? Imagine walking into your ideal clinic where the doctor puts you in charge?  The Ideal Clinic will make Obama Care/The Affordable Health Care Act even better!  Dr. Pamela Wible, is the pioneer of the first community-designed medical clinic in America. Her model was featured in the Harvard School of Public Health's edition of Renegotiating Health Care: Resolving Conflict to Build Collaboration, a textbook examining major trends with the potential to change the dynamics of health care. Join Dr. Pamela Wible and me on Tuesday, October 15, 10-11 A.M. US to explore the politics of health care and humanity, as she writes the prescription for you to survive your next doctor’s visit.   

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Do you believe that laughter is the best medicine? Sometimes sharing a story is more effective than writing a prescription? Imagine walking into your ideal clinic where the doctor puts you in charge? Dr. Pamela Wible, the pioneer of the first community-designed medical clinic in America, will be sharing the stories from her new book, Pet Goats & Pap Smears: 101 Medical Adventures to Open Your Heart & Mind.   Her model is featured in the Harvard School of Public Health's newest edition of Renegotiating Health Care: Resolving Conflict to Build Collaboration, a textbook examining major trends with the potential to change the dynamics of health care.   Call 347.327.9995 on Tuesday March 12th from 10-11 A.M. U.S. to learn more about the art of medicine from Dr. Pamela Wible.  

And why are more doctors being driven to depression, drugs and death by suicide or stress? Today's guest, Pamela Wible, M.D., a board certified family physician, has a unique story. When girls her age were playing with Barbies, she was talking to inmates, addicts and cadavers. Her family background has made her more sensitive to people's needs and has driven her to create the ideal medical clinic, which has begun serving as a model nationwide.