Podcast appearances and mentions of paul let

Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/iftheshoesfit Buy 7 Secret Sources of Inspiration (affiliate link): https://amzn.to/42ouNel Step into the shoes of Paul McCarney. You just finished up what you call “the final Beatles record” using AI. When George Harrison was alive, he hated the song, so you respected his wishes. Now that he's dead, you whipped out the AI machine and DID IT ANYWAY. Walk us through whether this is a cash grab or a technological test…which will turn into a cash grab, live and in public, if you will! Step into the shoes of Endeavor. Last Friday, Conor McGregor sent Burnie, the Miami Heat mascot, to the ER after delivering a hammerfist to the head in a choreographed skit that went wrong. Since you own, and will merge, the UFC and the WWE, was Conor's hammerfist and the hospital visit a work or a shoot…And if not, should it be?. REGULAR FEATURE: LEGION OF DOOM REGULAR FEATURE: MISTYAF

Pride is a protest, a riot, a celebration, a rite of mourning. Pride is not hubris, it is the truest act of humility.So many misunderstand the meaning and purpose of humility:Occupy a rightful space, neither too much nor too little. Focus neither on your own virtues nor the faults of others.Alan Morinis, Everyday Holiness: The Jewish Spiritual Path of Mussar, p. 45LGBT Pride is humble. It inspires people to take up their rightful space, not too much or too little. In a culture that tells us we are worthless and lesser, it is a shout to inspire people to know their value. We have a right to exist, to be happy, to live our lives with no one telling us we are wrong.I grew up hating myself. The church taught me my existence was a sin and hated by their false God. They embraced the demonic urge to hate and attack people who reject the forced conformity and lust for control and power.Our duty to Christ and God is love. Love for God, for Christ, and for one another.This is my commandment, that you love one another, even as I have loved you.Jesus, John 15:12Let all that you do be done in love.Paul, 1 Corinthians 16:14We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.John, 1 John 4:16So let's talk about LGBT Pride.On June 28, 1969, the Stonewall Uprising crystalized the heart of the modern Queer Liberation Movement. It wasn't the beginning, but it was the spark that lit the powder keg. The next year, the first Pride Marches started, and the movement carries on to this day.Pride is the one thing that Allonormative. Amatonormative, Cisgender, Heterosexuals take for granted. It is baked into our culture. Where is the heterosexual pride? Most movies, music, books, video games, laws, and cultural institutions are designed to celebrate heterosexual and cisgender norms. Some even put in the effort to mock and denigrate those who don't live up to those norms.They assume children to be cisgender and heterosexual until they come out as something else. Our communities forcibly coerced many of us to conform to these expectations, and threaten to disown us or send us to conversion therapy if we do not deny ourselves and conform.We are attacked, slandered, beaten, and killed for being who we are. That is why we need pride. With 500 bills to take away our rights in the states, we need Pride today more than ever.Truth is empoweringToo many Christians and conservatives not only spread lies about us, but want us to live a lie rather than be who we are. They claim to be doing the Lord's work, but the god that encourages lies is not the one who sent Jesus into the world. It is the one who reveled in his crucifixion.They claim to follow the ten commandments, but ignore:You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.Exodus 20:16They can't even be honest about this commandment saying that it is, “Do not lie.” The actual commandment is about giving false testimony against others. In other words, don't slander people.As a huge part of the upside down morality, they reject science and state their opinions as facts. I am not going to waste my time and energy debunking there lies. I will let Jessie Earl to that.There is your homework if you need all the receipts.Embracing Love and InclusivityCompassion and love are at the heart of Christ's message. The book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. He opened the book, and found the place where it was written,“The Spirit of the Lord is on me,because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor.He has sent me to heal the broken hearted,to proclaim release to the captives,recovering of sight to the blind,to deliver those who are crushed,and to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”He closed the book, gave it back to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of all in the synagogue were fastened on him. He began to tell them, “Today, this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.”Luke 4:17-21How have those who claim the name and mission of Christ come to this place where they:* convince the poor to bow to and support the rich* insult and attack the broken hearted* support the imprisonment of others* hide the truth from others.* and step on the crushed to feel superior.For those who don't believe this is the heart of Jesus' teachings, he says they are the criteria for judgement (see Matthew 7:21-27). They are how you tell Christ's real followers from the false ones.We are called to live a life of compassion and justice making. There are no exceptions to the golden rule.Christians have never had a full or complete understanding of justice or truth. That is why Jesus promised to send us the Spirit of Truth to guide us. He warned us against making the Scriptures into an idol or oracle of truth (John 5:39-44). As Paul says:So then, my beloved, even as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).But what about Evil?There are those who counter these arguments by quoting Paul:Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor that which is evil. Cling to that which is good.Paul, Romans 12:9What is evil? The Christian ethics taught by Christ define evil quite well:* oppressing and not helping the poor* not healing and visiting the sick* not comforting and liberating the imprisoned and enslaved* not feeding the hungry* not clothing the naked* not sheltering the homelessI see a common thread weaving through all of that.What did Jesus have to say about oppressed gender and sexual minorities?But he said to them, “Not all men can receive this saying, but those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven's sake. He who is able to receive it, let him receive it (Matthew 19:11-12).”That's it. It would have been shocking to say that in his day.In the Mosaic Law in states:He who is emasculated by crushing or cutting shall not enter into Yahweh's assembly (Deuteronomy 23:1).Jesus not only contradicted the law, but turned it on its head. Being a eunuch can be good actually.I am not saying that eunuchs are necessarily queer, but many were, and I don't know how else to interpret how some people are born eunuchs. Maybe is a reference to asexuality, but it is unclear. The early church interpreted it that way and doubled down on celibacy.However Jesus meant this, it is clear that he did not judge the most visible gender/sexual minority of his time. What mattered was the love and compassion we had for others and how we make justice in our societies.If you wonder why I am not talking about what Paul thought, the truth is we don't know. He coined his own term and we don't know what he meant by it. He could have been talking about sexual slavery or cultic prostitution. Any translation of Paul that is clear is showing the bias of the translator and not the words of Paul.Making JusticeOur call is to make justice and to love one another as Christ loved us. Justice can not be based on lies. The science is in:* homosexuality appears in nature and thus is natural.* gender affirming care saves lives.Any argument to the contrary is not based in fact.There is not an epidemic of people coming out as gay, bi, or trans, the curve is mirroring the destigmatization of left-handedness.It will level off once the queer community feels safe enough to be themselves.Don't fall for lies and griftersRemember:* Gender, like race, is culturally constructed which is why its definition changes over time.* The gender spectrum is real. No one is simply Man or Woman, but have many genders we take up and put down throughout our lives.* Sex is a spectrum with males, intersex individuals, and females. Most intersex people will never know they are intersex unless it shows up in a medical test.* Sexuality is a spectrum, and not everyone has sexual or romantic attraction to others.* Untreated gender dysphoria kills.* Just because something is culturally constructed does not mean that it isn't trying to express a felt or internal reality.* Someone being queer is natural and does no harm.* Politeness, courtesy, and compassion cost nothing.* Children have their own lives and should not be forced to conform to the wishes and desires of their parents.* Humility is a key aspect of compassion.No one has to out themself if they don't feel comfortable or safe. Allyship and Liberation is about accepting the science, supporting one another, and fighting against the increasing wave of harassment, persecution, and legal threats to our existence and wellbeing.Stand up this Pride, and fight for our rights to exist. Get full access to Creation's Paths at www.creationspaths.com/subscribe

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The Close Shave - (B&B Investigations, #3) The latest case involves one of Donna's old classmates - wed to a mysterious stranger, left destitute... now her life is in danger! Written and produced by Julie Hoverson  Cast List Paul Bette  - Joel Harvey Donna Bella  - Julie Hoverson Goldy Tailor  - Crystal Thomson Captain OftheGuard - Reynaud LeBoeuf Rumplestiltskin  - Philomen Vanderbeck Mrs. Edwina Beard - Rhys TM Mr. Beard - Benjamin Lind Mr. Rexmusson - H. Keith Lyons Mulva - Katharine D. Clark Frederick - Cary Ayers Thug - Danar Hoverson Music by  Somewhere off Jazz Street Editing and Sound:   Julie Hoverson Cover Design:  Brett Coulstock "What kind of a place is it? Why it's 1940s detective agency... with a twist, can't you tell?" *********************************************** The Close Shave Cast: [Opening credits - Olivia] Paul Bette Donna Bella Goldy Tailor Captain OftheGuard Mrs. Edwina Beard Mr. Beard Mr. Rexmusson, Edwina's father Rumplestiltskin thug Frederick, the butler Mulva, the new wife OLIVIA     Did you have any trouble finding it?  What do you mean, what kind of a place is it?  Why, it's the office of a private eye, can't you tell?  MUSIC SOUND     DOOR OPENS GOLDY    B&B Investigations, how may I --[cuts off in disgust]  Sorry.  We don't need no cleaning staff. EDWINA    [very posh sounding, correcting her]  Any cleaning staff. GOLDY    [puzzled] Any cleaning staff, what? EDWINA    [dismissive mutter] I'm surprised you don't rhyme.  [up] I am here to hire a private investigator.  I have heard that this firm is very.... discreet. SOUND    DOOR OPENS GOLDY    Discreet yes.  Cheap no.  You better have-- DONNA    Edwina?  Edwina Rexmusson? EDWINA    [cussing]  Oh, goblins.  [up, false gushy]  Donna!  It's been simply ages! DONNA    What are you doing here?  And what's with the getup? EDWINA    [trying to keep composure] Oh... Donna!  Are you ...here to hire an investigator as well?  DONNA    Um, no.  I... am the investigator. EDWINA    [snooty] Oh? DONNA    [sharp] Dressed like THAT, I wouldn't sneer, sweetheart.  [nicer]  Besides, whatever's wrong, I'm probably the only investigator in town who could truly understand.  Come along.  [to Goldy] Do we have any cocoa? EDWINA    [breaking into tears] Oh!  You remembered! DONNA    [stage whisper]  And a box of tissues.  [to Edwina]  My office is right over here. MUSIC    VOICEOVER DONNA    Edwina was one of those snooty girls I'd gone to school with, back before my family's fortunes fell.  [losing track] Funny.  Failed to figure on fff-- [thinks, sighs] alliteration.  [back]  From what I could recall, though I hadn't really paid attention, she'd dropped out of sight about a year back.  Her current state, dressed in - well let's face it - rags, haggard and undernourished, was shocking.  GOLDY    Flabbergasting, even. DONNA    Shh! PAUL    Do you need me? DONNA    Not yet.  You're still on that breach of contract, aren't you? PAUL    I've just about got it wrapped up.  Found three crickets and a snail that will swear to witnessing the ball retrieval.  [confident] He'll get what's coming to him.  I'll just listen in?  If you don't mind?  Nothing more boring than a stakeout. DONNA    Gotcha.  [clears throat] I waited for Edwina to calm down enough to talk. MUSIC    FADES OUT EDWINA    [blows nose excessively into handkerchief]  DONNA    Try some cocoa.  You'll feel better.  Now take your time and tell me what's wrong. EDWINA    [sips, sighs]  Oh... It's my husband. DONNA    Oh?  I guess I didn't know you were married.  Not that I've been much in society recently. EDWINA    Oh! yes.  Maybe you are the one person who can understand.  My father was absolutely set on my marrying, but I wanted... well... DONNA    A career? EDWINA    No. DONNA    Romance? EDWINA    No. DONNA    A Pony?  What? EDWINA    [painful admission] I just wanted... my own way.  More than anything else, I didn't want to give in and do what father wanted. DONNA    I take it he was not amused? EDWINA    [mirthless laugh]  He kept parading eligible bachelors around, and I... I kept shooting them down.  This one was too fat, that one too thin, that one too hairy-- DONNA    There's something cuddly about "hairy". EDWINA    Oh, don't even go there!!!  Why my husband-- DONNA    Sorry!  EDWINA    So father, exasperated, said I would be married before my birthday, like it or not.  And if I wouldn't take any of the suitable men, I would end up [sniffles] wed to the first man to come to the door.  [sobs, then wails]  Even if he was a pattycake!!! DONNA    What's wrong with--? EDWINA    [wails]  Waaahhhh! DONNA    Yowtch.  And this was last year? EDWINA    [sniffs, then tries to calm] Almost exactly a year ago.  How can I forget?  The day before my 21st birthday, my father tossed me at this.... "person", ran the paperwork through, and threw me out of the house.  Since then... Well, you see how I am. MUSIC FOR VOICEOVER DONNA    For all her suffering, Edwina was holding up pretty well.  She had gone from pampered princess to long-suffering housewife in one fell swoop.  Had to learn to cook, clean, and even run her husband's little china shop.  She'd been tempered in the fire.  And she used to be nothing BUT temper. GOLDY    There's plenty like that. DONNA    I am ignoring you.  MUSIC     CUTS OUT SUDDENLY EDWINA    Me? DONNA    Sorry.  Nothing.  So what exactly do you need help with?  EDWINA    Oh, that!  Someone is trying to kill me. DONNA    Really? MUSIC FOR VOICEOVER DONNA    Suddenly a simple domestic case had turned very interesting indeed.  DONNA    Edwina said that on two different occasions, there had been "accidents" that might have killed her, if not for this "strange man".  MUSIC FADES SOUND    IN CAR PAUL    Did she say what he looked like? DONNA    She said he looked vaguely familiar, but had a scarf covering the lower half his face.  PAUL    And these "accidents?" DONNA    Nothing she could take to the cops.  She felt a hand push her on a street corner, and would have gone right out into traffic.  Except... PAUL    Except for this stranger? DONNA    Yes.  He grabbed her and pulled her back.  That was the first time.  She wrote it off, figuring someone just lost their balance. PAUL    But... then? DONNA    Yeah.  She'd just shut up shop for the night, was heading home, and a piano fell on her. PAUL    You're kidding?!? DONNA    Nope.  It was being lifted to an upstairs apartment, and the ropes just... gave way.  PAUL    And the guy? DONNA    Swooped in on a motorcycle and pushed her out of the way. PAUL    At best, he's been following her everywhere.  DONNA    At worst, he's part of it. PAUL    So she wants us to-- DONNA    First, find out who might be trying to kill her.  Second find this guy.  And [sigh] If we find out anything about her husband along the way.... PAUL    [grr]  I hate matrimony cases.  [backpedaling] not that I hate matrimony, though!  [a moment, musing/hinting]  Cuddly? DONNA    What? PAUL    [too quick] Nothing. MUSIC FOR VOICEOVER PAUL    I figured I'd start with a trip to the delivery company, see who might have ordered that piano-- DONNA    Or who inquired about it.  PAUL    Yes.  Was this accident a spur of the moment crime, or something much more sinister? DONNA    I decided to look into who might want Edwina dead, and why.  I had a few contacts at the hall of records who liked nothing better than rooting out such juicy tidbits of gossip. PAUL    What are you thinking? DONNA    There's only a couple of possible motives for murder - money and passion being the best possibilities in this case.  DONNA    And since Edwina's father cut her off without a simolean to her name, there either had to be money she didn't know about-- PAUL    Long lost heirs?  That's a stretch. DONNA    [a bit annoyed] OR it had to do with her husband, the aptly named Mr. Beard. PAUL    First name? DONNA    Apparently they're not that familiar. PAUL    [flabbergasted!] What? MUSIC CUTS OUT SUDDENLY PAUL    Seriously?  She doesn't know his first name? DONNA    He doesn't talk to her much, except to give orders. PAUL    Even... um... when...? DONNA    [hinting] They sleep in separate rooms. PAUL    [stunned] Oh.  Who IS this guy? DONNA    That's what I plan to find out.  Ah!  Hall of records.  My stop. PAUL    Right.  Meet for dinner? DONNA    Of course. MUSIC    VOICEOVER PAUL    I watched her walk away, a red-haired slither of pure lusciousness.  [grr] At least until the car behind me started to honk. SOUND    HONK ENDS VOICEOVER MUSIC SOUND    CAR STARTS SOUND    PHONE RINGS, PICKS UP GOLDY    B&B Investigations, how may I direct-- EDWINA    [on filter] It happened again! GOLDY    What happened? EDWINA    Just tell Donna!  Get her to come to my place.  She has the address.  Quickly! Before my husband gets home! GOLDY    I'll see what I can do. EDWINA    It's a matter of life and death! SOUND    PHONE HANGS UP, IS SET DOWN GOLDY    Hmm.  Now let's see - How do they DO that? MUSIC    FOR VOICEOVER GOLDY    Well, that was easy.  [speaking loudly, as if trying to be noticed]  I was trying desperately to figure out how to get a message to my boss, Donna Bella. DONNA    You don't have to yell! GOLDY    [normal tone] The client called. DONNA    Edwina. GOLDY    We ain't been formally introduced.  Besides, I'm trying to be all professional here. DONNA    OK, just tell me what you got. GOLDY    She needs you over there lickety split. DONNA    Did she actually say--? GOLDY    I'm paraphrasing.  DONNA    Fine.  Now leave the voiceover to me.  [beat]  Ok.  I caught a cab and raced to Edwina's fifth floor walkup.  It was as old and careworn as her dress.  I really started to sympathize.  MUSIC    OUT SOUND    KNOCKING ON THE DOOR EDWINA    [shriek] Who is it? DONNA    It's me! SOUND    HEAVY FOOTSTEP, DOWN THE HALL DONNA    [gasp]  Hello? SOUND    LOTS OF LOCKS UNLOCKING DONNA    [whispered to the door] I'll be right back! EDWINA    No! DONNA    Shh! SOUND    QUIET STEPS MUSIC FOR VOICEOVER DONNA    I was pretty sure I'd seen movement down around the dimly lit corner.  I'm not usually the physical type - I leave all that to Paul-- PAUL    [distant] [laughing hysterically] DONNA    [grim and determined] --BUT I wanted to at least get a glimpse of whoever it was that was spying on Edwina's door.  MUSIC OUT SOUND    QUICK STEPS DONNA    Hah! SOUND    DOOR SHUTS QUICKLY MUSIC IN DONNA    I rushed up, but the series of locks - a strangely familiar series of locks - was already being thrown.  I waited a moment, then peered through the keyhole, straining for any glimpse of the perpetrator. GOLDY    What did you see? DONNA    Out! MUSIC OUT DONNA    Not you, her! MUSIC IN GOLDY    Fine.  PAUL    What did you see? DONNA    Let me talk to Edwina first. MUSIC OUT SOUND    TAP ON DOOR, DOOR WRENCHED OPEN EDWINA    What happened? DONNA    Nothing.  Thought I heard something. EDWINA    It was probably a mouse.  They're in half the apartments here. DONNA    Can't they get rid of them? EDWINA    [shrug] Not unless they get behind on the rent. MUSIC IN PAUL    Let me take this and give you ladies some privacy. DONNA    Sounds good.  I might be a little late. PAUL    No problem.  [voiceover]  I had had a frustrating day.  The moving company was paid in cash, and the apartment they were delivering to had been rented under a false name.  GOLDY    Back at the office, a pile of official looking papers that Donna had messengered, arrived.  If you're bored or anything. PAUL    I still have leads to follow up. GOLDY    I'm shutting up for the day.  You have fun. PAUL    [sigh]  Some days you wonder why you even need a secretary-- GOLDY    [distant] I heard that! PAUL    [thinking quick] And then you recall how much time you haveta spend away from the office, and it all becomes clear.  [waits a second]  Phew!  She does come in handy.  [narrating]  I walked into the bar where the lowest denizens of the city hung out, and lowest among them-- MUSIC OUT PAUL    Hey, Rump.  RUMPY    Not tonight, Bette.  I got lady trouble. PAUL    Really?  You? RUMPY    You don't have to sound so.... so... PAUL    Sorry. RUMPY    Take it from me, don't ever let one of them find out your real name.  [drinks deep]  So you here for a social call?  PAUL    You know better. SOUND    CLINK OF COINS ON COUNTER PAUL    But I can make it worth your while. RUMPY    I'll drink that in the next 10 minutes. PAUL    Give me something good, and you'll get another half hour's worth. RUMPY    What's the question? PAUL    Mr. Rexmussen and his daughter Edwina.  Anything you know. RUMPY    Off the top of my head?  And drunk?  Nothing.  SOUND    COINS BEING DRAGGED AWAY PAUL    Oh. RUMPY    Except-- SOUND    COINS STOP MOVING PAUL    Go on. RUMPY    I do know that just about a year ago, daddy dearest said he was gonna hitch her to the first dude to come to the door, and there was a virtual stampede to get there - but this mug Beard was already at the head of the line. PAUL    Like he... knew in advance? RUMPY    Could be...  or... [trails off suggestively, drinks] SOUND    TWO MORE COINS SET DOWN RUMPY    More like he kind of appeared out of nowhere.  No one knew him before.  No one knows when he came to town.  Nothing. PAUL    Hmm... SOUND    COUPLE MORE COINS RUMPY    That's all I got.  SOUND    SHOVES COINS RUMPY    Now leave me to my misery. PAUL    Nah.  Keep it.  MUSIC in PAUL    So a Beard with no roots.  But who could have known that Edwina's dad was going to go ballistic? GOLDY    Daddy probably set it all up with the mug.  To teach her a lesson.  Sounds like she was a holy terror. PAUL    I thought you went home. GOLDY     They ain't nothing good on the radio. PAUL    While I could consult an oracle or two about the mysterious Mr. Beard, the price would be a bit too high for a charity case-- GOLDY    What about who might want to kill her? PAUL    I had no leads as yet-- GOLDY    Oh, yes you do. PAUL    I do? GOLDY    These papers - I took em home, just in case someone might come looking. PAUL    Are you really worried about that? GOLDY    Nah.  But they ain't nothing good on the radio.  Anyway, you wanted to know about money motives, and there's some interesting stuff in here. PAUL    This should really be on the phone.  Voiceovers aren't made for conversations. GOLDY    You two do it all the time! PAUL    [abashed] We try not to. GOLDY    Fine.  [ahem] After going through the stack of papers - a thankless task, by the way - I realized that Edwina happened to have a birthday coming up. PAUL    [dismissive] She already mentioned that. GOLDY    AND that this would be her 22nd birthday.  When she would just happen to come into a huge trust fund.  UNLESS she weren't married yet, then she don't get her mitts on the cash til she's 30. PAUL    [interested] Really? GOLDY    UNLESS again - she was to happen to kick off before she made it to 22.  PAUL    Hmm...  Who-- GOLDY    IN WHICH CASE the money would revert to... ta-da!  her father. PAUL    Rexmussen?  But he's rich. GOLDY    Interesting, innit? DONNA    Whew.  I had just spent the longest evening of my life, and-- GOLDY    We're already on this line. DONNA    What? PAUL    But we're pretty much done. DONNA    What? GOLDY    Besides, I'm already clocked out for the evening. DONNA    [growl] what? PAUL    Goldy took the time to sort through all the paperwork we hadn't yet got around to... DONNA    [back to normal] Oh.  Anything? PAUL    Tell you at dinner. DONNA    About time! MUSIC OUT SOUND    RESTAURANT PAUL    --which doesn't make any sense, because he's rolling in dough. DONNA    Nothing in this case makes sense, and we've only got one more day before Edwina's birthday.  PAUL    We better stay with her.  DONNA    I had this little idea... PAUL    Yeah? DONNA    This mystery man appears every time she looks to be in danger, so... PAUL    ["getting it"] Mmm. DONNA    Let skip ahead. PAUL    Get some rest. DONNA    Mwa! PAUL    [appreciative growl] MUSIC IN DONNA    Morning came, and I was back with Edwina.  Her husband hadn't even come home, but had phoned to insist she still open the store as usual.  She was frantic. MUSIC OUT SOUND    STREET, FOOTSTEPS EDWINA    [controlled] Thank you so much for coming with me.  I'm simply frantic. DONNA    Don't worry about it.  We'll get to the bottom of all this. SOUND    RUSHING FEET PAUL    [roar] EDWINA    [scream!] SOUND    SCUFFLE BEARD    [oof!] DONNA    You got him?  Calm down, Eddie! EDWINA    [gasp] What?  Who is it?  Oh!  That's him!  That's the guy! PAUL    Let's get inside.  Come on.  EDWINA    [whisper] Who's that? DONNA    My partner.  He's good people. EDWINA    He's hardly "people", wouldn't you say? DONNA    Don't knock it, sister! SOUND    DOOR SHUTS PAUL    Okay, pal, you better start talking. EDWINA    Don't hurt him!  He's the one who's been saving me! PAUL    [tough sounding]  No one needs to get hurt - but someone DOES need to talk. BEARD    [mutters something] PAUL    What's that? BEARD    [low whisper] Just you.  I'll talk to you.  Not the ladies. PAUL    You all right with that?  We'll catch up. SOUND    SNAP FINGERS MUSIC In SUDDENLY DONNA    Edwina and I went on to the shop, careful to avoid any potentially life threatening situations. MUSIC OUT SOUND    SHOP DOOR, WITH BELL EDWINA    He's not going to hurt him, is he? DONNA    I don't think it will come to that. EDWINA    Good.  I-- I think I'm in love. DONNA    [stunned] What?  With that-- EDWINA    Handsome stranger who keeps saving my life? DONNA    You've got a point.  But what about your husband? EDWINA    I hardly ever see him.  He doesn't care. DONNA    And how do you know this guy is handsome?  His face was all covered in that scarf. EDWINA    [deep excited breath]  Oh!  His piercing eyes!  So mysterious.  T think--  [almost something]  I think he's shy. DONNA    While it's nice to see some color in your cheeks again, I think we need to shelve this until we solve the death-related part of the mystery. EDWINA    [sigh] All right. DONNA    Last night, I asked about the suitors you turned down.  Did you have a chance to make a list? EDWINA    Oh!  I forgot.  So sorry. DONNA    We've got some time now. EDWINA    Oh, all right. Um... There was Bob Porthos-- DONNA    The entrepreneur?  [whistles] EDWINA    He was really fat.  And Fred Crotchety, are you taking these down? DONNA    Mind like a steel trap.  Crotchety? EWINA    Old.  And don't even get me started on King Cole. DONNA    The Merry old - ah! "Old"? EDWINA    [duh!] Pattycake. DONNA    Hmm.  Let me guess, there was something wrong with every single one of them. EDWINA    Pretty much.  And if it wasn't something obvious, like being really short, or having terrible halitosis, I'd just pick on whatever was handy. DONNA    Bet you regret that now. EDWINA    You said it.  I might have spent the last year in the lap of luxury with my old, fat or smelly husband.  [thinks]  Hmm.  I guess I'm actually rather lucky. DONNA    Really? EDWINA    My husband is standoffish and emotionally unavailable, but at least he's not fat, old or smelly. DONNA    [slightly sarcastic] And doesn't talk in rhyme. EDWINA    [the horror!] Heaven forbid!!  SOUND    DOOR SLAMS OPEN DONNA    Paul? THUG    Both of you, hands up! EDWINA    [scream!] THUG    Shut up! EDWINA    [cuts out suddenly with a hiccup] DONNA    Let me guess - you're the next "accident"? THUG    Shut up! DONNA    Why should I listen to you? EDWINA    [hissed] Because he's got a gun! THUG    I see she's the smart one. DONNA    What? THUG    Though you got the looks, babe. DONNA    What? EDWINA    Don't anger the thug! DONNA    Just watch.  WHAT? THUG    Now, lets see...  [muses] an accident... SOUND    HEAVY TIPPING NOISE, CROCKERY GOES EVERYWHERE EDWINA    [quick shriek, muffled] THUG    [telling himself a story] So someone broke in, and-- [sudden surprised gasp of pain] MUSIC IN PAUL    The mystery man had only half satisfied my curiosity when we heard screams from the vicinity of Edwina's pottery shop. THUG    [screams like a girl] MUSIC OUT BEARD    Something's happening! PAUL    [chuckles] They'll be fine.  Finish what you were saying. BEARD    [melodramatic] I'll tell you whatever you want - AFTER we save her! PAUL    [sigh] All right. MUSIC IN PAUL    He had it so bad it was almost cute.  How could I refuse, being a fellow sufferer of that aeons-old disease called love? MUSIC OUT SOUND    DOOR CREAKS OPEN, CRASH OF PLATE DONNA    Hah! PAUL    See? BEARD    [surprised] Oh.  You're all right! EDWINA    Yes! DONNA    This guy-- SOUND    RUSTLE AS SHE KICKS HIM THUG    [groan] DONNA    Broke in.  He won't talk.  [sweetly] I told him my partner is the really scary one. PAUL    Don't worry about it.  I think I know where this is all leading. DONNA    Really? PAUL    Yes.  Shh. EDWINA    [melodramatic, to Beard] It can never be. BEARD    What? EDWINA    I'm... I'm married.  No matter that it wasn't my choice.  It-- BEARD    It's all right. EDWINA    No, it's not!  You keep saving me, and making me love - uh - like - uh - appreciate you.  It's not fair.  To you. BEARD    You wouldn't consider... running off with me? EDWINA    A year ago, I might have said yes.  In a heartbeat.  But I'm not that same shallow girl any more.  I simply can't break a solemn vow.  You should go. DONNA    [sad] Ohhh! PAUL    [reassuring] Shh. EDWINA    Just know this.  I love you! BEARD    I've waited so long to hear you say that. EDWINA    [confused] You ...have? PAUL    [whispered] Now for the big reveal. SOUND    RUSTLE OF FABRIC EDWINA    You! DONNA    Who? PAUL    Guess. DONNA    I don't know anyone with a beard that thick. BEARD    I'm so sorry I had to do it this way, but-- SOUND    THUMP, HISS PAUL    Really?  A grenade?  [grunt of effort] SOUND    HISSING FLIES OFF SOUND    DISTANT EXPLOSION, SHRIEK OF PAIN & SURPRISE PAUL    Now that that's sorted out, I think it's time. DONNA    Time? PAUL    For the big denouement.  And... I think a police presence is in order. DONNA    Where's a phone? EDWINA    What's going on?  BEARD    Don't worry, my darling.  I'll still always protect you. MUSIC IN PAUL    We did a quick gathering of the suspects and arrived at Mr. Rexmussen's sumptuous estates with only half an hour to spare. DONNA    Before what? PAUL    The birthday. GOLDY    I'm the one that caught that! DONNA AND PAUL    Shut up! GOLDY    Hmph.  Keep me posted. PAUL    Rexmussen's estate was a sprawling mass of putting green and ornamental garden, all surrounding a palatial sort of ... palace. DONNA    Evocative. PAUL    I've been studying Old Possum's word a day column in the Times. DONNA    [chuckles] GOLDY    uh-uh-uh!  Conversation! DONNA    Fine!  SOUND    MUSIC OUT SOUND    KNOCKING ON DOOR SOUND    TEENSY WINDOW OPENS BUTLER    Please good folks!  This is not right!  Banging on the door all night! PAUL    [grr] Pattycakes. EDWINA    [Imperious]  Rouse my father, Frederick. BUTLER    The master sleeps, he will not wake.  I beg you now, your leave to take. SOUND    WINDOW SHUTS DONNA    Blast.  If only-- SOUND    POLICE SIRENS BURP, THEN CUT OUT PAUL    [concerned] Ohhh boy. DONNA    Captain Oftheguard!  So glad you came!  Wait - I didn't - did you? PAUL    [grrrr]  No. OFTHEGUARD    Your secretary called, said you're having some kind of ...denouement... at this here address? PAUL    [muttered] She'll never let us live this one down. DONNA    [wheedling] We need to get inside, Bruce, and talk to Edwina's father!  Right now, before there's a murder! OFTHEGUARD    We'll see about that. SOUND    OFFICIAL POUNDING BEARD    No one's going to murder you! EDWINA    Oh, [falters] OH!  [whispers]  You never told me your first name. BEARD    Oh...  uh...  [horrible admission] Van dyke. EDWINA    Really?  I would have pegged you as a garibaldi, or maybe a franz-josef with a side order of Z-Z. BEARD    [surprised] So you know my brothers? SOUND    DOOR OPENS OFTHEGUARD    Hey!  Mother goose.  Get your boss out here.  This is the police. FREDERICK    You needn't speak in such a tone.  My job is to see he's left alone. OFTHEGUARD    hmph.  My job trumps your boss's orders - now let us through your fancy borders. DONNA    Oh, Bruce!  I never knew you were bilingual! PAUL    [growl] Enough!  I'll get us in. SOUND    MUSIC IN PAUL    It wasn't long before we were all sitting in Rexmussen's main sitting room. MUSIC OUT PAUL    So there. EDWINA    Not to be confused with the informal withdrawing room, or the salon. REXMUSSEN    [cold] So nice to have you home again dear. EDWINA    [cold] Papa.  [kiss kiss] OFTHEGUARD    I believe there was a denouement in the offing?  Or are we here for pinochle? REXMUSSUN    A Denouement?  Surely you don't mean--? SOUND    LIGHT FEET ENTER MULVA    [sexy little number] Rex, Honey?  I miss my bunny? EDWINA    [horrified] Papa! REXMUSSUN     [covering, stiff] Go back to bed, Mulva.  We'll talk in the morning. EDWINA    Papa!?  What is ... that?  [disgust] Her? DONNA    That's a whole nother denouement!  Quick, music! SOUND    MUSIC IN, SOUND OF EDWINA AND REXMUSSUN ARGUING UNDER REXMUSSUN    I knew you would never be able to accept-- EDWINA    A pattycake?  Father!  How could you! MULVA    Love is blind to age or youth.  We knew you wouldn't like the truth. REXMUSSUN    You don't need to be here, dearest, to take this abuse. EDWINA    I'm glad mother's dead!  This sort of ...perversion - it would have killed her to know. [now the voiceover] PAUL    Could this have been another motive?  Or part of the answer we already had? DONNA    We knew we had to sort it out quickly, or lose what might be our only chance to resolve this issue. PAUL    The money in the trust goes back to dear old dad if she dies in the next 15 minutes, right? DONNA    I think-- GOLDY    [snide] That's what the papers said.  DONNA    Fine.  Thanx.  What else did they say. GOLDY    Oh, so now you need me-- PAUL    Get on with it!  We're in the denouement! GOLDY    Dad's loaded.  The entire trust wouldn't make pocket change for him. DONNA    And his new wife? GOLDY    Oh, that took a couple of very tricky phone calls.  Seems they went out of state for a nice quiet little ceremony - the day AFTER dear daughter was whisked away to be wed. PAUL    So maybe this had nothing to do with the money at all? DONNA    What are we left with? EVERYONE     GASPS PAUL    That sounds like something.  Quick! SOUND    MUSIC OUT EDWINA    The lights! OFTHEGUARD    Everyone stay where you are.  BEARD    I'm here. SOUND    RUSTLE, THEN FOOTSTEPS PAUL    Was anyone near the lights when they went out? EDWINA    We were a bit...um... involved in a family ... discussion. DONNA    Where are the -- SOUND    GUNSHOT EDWINA    [QUICK scream] BEARD    Oh no! DONNA    Quick!  Paul! SOUND    HEAVY FOOTSTEPS PAUL    [growl] FREDERICK    Off, you beast!  Get off of me!  I'm no prey for such as thee! PAUL    Just for that! [unh!] SOUND    SMACK SOUND    CLICK OF LIGHTS BACK ON OFTHEGUARD    Him!? EDWINA    A servant? REXMUSSUN    Frederick? DONNA    [whispered] Paul?  But why?  Do you think he was paid? PAUL    [muttered] Hmm.  No.  [up]  Oftheguard, I'll hand him over.  OFTHEGUARD    What's the charge?  Or at least the motive? EDWINA    Yes!  What could he possibly get out of killing me?  He's not in any position to inherit. DONNA    No one is - now.  PAUL    Except your husband.  BEARD    I've got plenty of my own, thanks. DONNA    Your birthday came and went 8 minutes ago.  So this attempt ... [quizzical] must be unrelated? PAUL    But something else is.  DONNA    Is what? PAUL    Related.  [sharp] Rexmusson!  This young lady may be your second wife, but I wager she's not the first pattycake that you've... um... DONNA    Played pattycake with? PAUL    I was trying for something a bit more pithy, but yes. REXMUSSON    [warning] I'm a very wealthy and powerful man!  [shrug] And everyone needs a hobby. EDWINA    Papa! MULVA    But now I am your one and only?  You'll never have to be so lonely. REXMUSSON    [not quite convincing] Of course, dear. EDWINA    This is just disgusting.  I don't need to hear any more of this-- PAUL    Just a bit more.  Frederick?  How long have you worked here? EDWINA    He's been here his entire life.  Since we both [getting it] were children... DONNA    Ahhh.  And his mother?  She worked here, too? EDWINA    [revolted] Oh, now I am definitely leaving. BEARD    Hold on a bit longer.  EDWINA    Hold me! DONNA    So you think that he did it out of revenge?  For her being the pampered one and him getting.... a menial job? PAUL    Perhaps he felt that if there were no longer a legitimate heir to the Rexmusson estate, that his father would have to acknowledge him at last. DONNA    That's a huge bucket full of wishful thinking, you do realize that? REXMUSSON    Even if Edwina was killed, and that would never be my wish, dear, even if we don't see eye to eye on some things-- EDWINA    [conciliatory]  Oh, I should hope not. REXMUSSON    There's still going to be more legit heirs.  Right my little pumpkiny-wumpkiny? MULVA    You'll have a little sister soon.  We've counted down to the end of June. EDWINA    [no longer amused] We're leaving.  Now. BEARD    There's no more danger? OFTHEGUARD    Not from this guy, there ain't. BEARD    Good.  [leaving]  Edwina?  Darling? FREDERICK    Ouch!  Ouch!  Stop that, you!  You hurt my-- OFTHEGUARD    [cutting in] Everloving shoe.  I know, I know.  I've heard it all before.  Now - "Come along quiet, you epic fail.  You're taking a little trip to jail." MUSIC IN PAUL    [snort, then annoyed]  Progressive AND bilingual.  How do you compete with that? DONNA    Hmm? PAUL    Nothing.  [clears throat]  So the case was closed, and for once we could say-- DONNA    With a completely straight face-- PAUL    uh...  [whispered] You want to say it? DONNA    [sultry whisper] Let's do it together? PAUL    [grrrrow!]  Count of three, then.  One Two-- PAUL AND DONNA    The butler did it.  [both laugh] PAUL    You would never leave me, um, I mean the agency, I mean, detective work, for a ... a pattycake, wouldja? DONNA    Never fear, oh hairy one / the job, and you, are much more fun. PAUL    [growl!!]  I do love it when she talks foreign!    

00:58 - Paul's Superpower: Participating in Scary Things 02:19 - EventStorming (https://www.eventstorming.com/) * Optimized For Collaboration * Visualizing Processes * Working Together * Sticky (Post-it) Notes (https://www.post-it.com/3M/en_US/post-it/products/~/Post-it-Products/Notes/?N=4327+5927575+3294529207+3294857497&rt=r3) 08:35 - Regulation: Avoiding Overspecifics * “The Happy Path” * Timeboxing * Parking Lot (https://project-management.fandom.com/wiki/Parking_lot) * Inside Pixar (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13302848/#:~:text=This%20documentary%20series%20of%20personal,culture%20of%20Pixar%20Animation%20Studios.) * Democratization * Known Unknowns 15:32 - Facilitation and Knowledge Sharing * Iteration and Refinement * Knowledge Distillation / Knowledge Crunching * Clarifying Terminology: Semantics is Meaning * Embracing & Exposing Fuzziness (Complexities) 24:20 - Key Events * Narrative Shift * Domain-Driven Design (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain-driven_design) * Shift in Metaphor 34:22 - Collaboration & Teamwork * Perspective * Mitigating Ambiguity 39:29 - Remote EventStorming and Facilitation * Miro (https://miro.com/) * MURAL (https://www.mural.co/) 47:38 - EventStorming vs Event Sourcing (https://martinfowler.com/eaaDev/EventSourcing.html) * Sacrificing Rigor For Collaboration 51:14 - Resources * The EventStorming Handbook (https://leanpub.com/eventstorming_handbook) * Paul's Upcoming Workshops (https://www.virtualgenius.com/events) * @thepaulrayner (https://twitter.com/thepaulrayner) Reflections: Mandy: Eventstorming and its adjacence to Technical Writing. Damien: You can do this on a small and iterative scale. Jess: Shared understanding. Paul: Being aware of the limitations of ideas you can hold in your head. With visualization, you can hold it in more easily and meaningfully. This episode was brought to you by @therubyrep (https://twitter.com/therubyrep) of DevReps, LLC (http://www.devreps.com/). To pledge your support and to join our awesome Slack community, visit patreon.com/greaterthancode (https://www.patreon.com/greaterthancode) To make a one-time donation so that we can continue to bring you more content and transcripts like this, please do so at paypal.me/devreps (https://www.paypal.me/devreps). You will also get an invitation to our Slack community this way as well. Transcript: MANDY: Welcome to Episode 271 of Greater Than Code. My name is Mandy Moore and I'm here today with a guest, but returning panelist. I'm happy to see Jessica Kerr. JESSICA: Thanks, Mandy. It's great to see you. I'm also excited to be here today with Damien Burke! DAMIEN: And I am excited to be here with both of you and our guest today, Paul Rayner. Paul Rayner is one of the leading practitioners of EventStorming and domain-driven design. He's the author of The EventStorming Handbook, co-author of Behavior-Driven Development with Cucumber, and the founder and chair of the Explore DDD conference. Welcome to the show, Paul. PAUL: Thanks, Damien. Great to be here. DAMIEN: Great to have you. And so you know, you are prepared, you are ready for our first and most famous question here on Greater Than Code? PAUL: I don't know if I'm ready, or prepared, but I can answer it, I think. [laughter] DAMIEN: I know you have prepared, so I don't know if you are prepared. PAUL: Right. DAMIEN: Either way, here it comes. [chuckles] What is your superpower and how did you acquire it? PAUL: Okay. So a couple of weeks ago, there's a lake near my house, and the neighbors organized a polar plunge. They cut a big hole in the ice and everyone lines up and you basically take turns jumping into the water and then swimming to the other side and climbing out the ladder. So my superpower is participating in a polar plunge and I acquired that by participating with my neighbors. There was barbecue, there was a hot tub, and stuff like that there, too. So it was very, very cool. It's maybe not a superpower, though because there were little kids doing this also. So it's not like it was only me doing it. JESSICA: I'll argue that your superpower is participating in scary things because you're also on this podcast today! PAUL: [chuckles] Yeah, there we go. DAMIEN: Yeah, that is very scary. Nobody had to be fished out of the water? No hospital, hypothermia, any of that? PAUL: No, there was none of that. It was actually a really good time. I mean, being in Denver, blue skies, it was actually quite a nice day to jump into frozen. MANDY: So Paul, you're here today to talk about EventStorming. I want to know what your definition of that is, what it is, and why it's a cool topic to be talking about on Greater Than Code. PAUL: Okay. Well, there's a few things there. So firstly, what is EventStorming? I've been consulting, working with teams for a long time, coaching them and a big part of what I try and do is to try and bridge the gap between what the engineers, the developers, the technical people are trying to build in terms of the software, and what the actual problem is they're trying to solve. EventStorming is a technique for just mapping out a process using sticky notes where you're trying to describe the story of what it is that you're building, how that fits into the business process, and use the sticky notes to layer in variety of information and do it in a collaborative kind of way. So it's really about trying to bridge that communication gap and uncover assumptions that people might have, expose complexity and risk through the process, and with the goal of the software that you write actually being something that solves the real problem that you're trying to solve. I think it's a good topic for Greater Than Code based on what I understand about the podcast, because it certainly impacts the code that you write, touches on that, and connects with the design. But it's really optimized for collaboration, it's optimized for people with different perspectives being able to work together and approach it as visualizing processes that people create, and then working together to be able to do that. So there's a lot of techniques out there that are very much optimized from a developer perspective—UML diagrams, flow charts, and things like that. But EventStorming really, it sacrifices some of that rigor to try and draw people in and provide a structured conversation. I think with the podcast where you're trying to move beyond just the code and dig into the people aspects of this a lot more, I think it really touches on that in a meaningful way. JESSICA: You mentioned that with a bunch of stickies, a bunch of different people, and their perspectives, EventStorming layers in different kinds of information. PAUL: Mm hm. JESSICA: Like what? PAUL: Yeah. So the way that usually approach it is, let's say, we're modeling, visualizing some kind of process like somebody registering for a certain thing, or even somebody, maybe a more common example, purchasing something online and let's say, that we have the development team that's responsible for implementing how somebody might return a product to a merchant, something like that. The way it would work is you describe that process as events where each sticky note represents something that happened in the story of returning a product and then you can layer on questions. So if people have questions, use a different colored sticky note for highlighting things that people might be unsure of, what assumptions they might be making, differences in terminology, exposing those types of unknowns and then once you've sort of laid out that timeline, you can then layer in things like key events, what you might call emergent structures. So as you look at that timeline, what might be some events that are more important than others? JESSICA: Can you make that concrete for me? Give me an example of some events in the return process and then…? PAUL: Yeah. So let's say, the customer receives a product that they want to return. You could have an event like customer receive product and then an event that is customer reported need for return. And then you would have a shift in actor, like a shift in the person doing the work where maybe the merchant has to then merchant sent return package to customer. So we're mapping out each one of these as an event in the process and then the customer receives, or maybe it's a shipping label. The customer receives the shipping label and then they put the items in the package with the shipping label and they return it. And then there would be a bunch of events that the merchant would have to take care of. So the merchant would have to receive that package and then probably have to update the system to record that it's been returned. And then, I imagine there would be processing another order, or something like that. A key event in there might be something like sending out the shipping label and the customer receiving the shipping label because that's a point where the responsibility transfers from the merchant, who is preparing the shipping label and dispatching that, to the customer that's actually receiving it and then having to do something. That's just one, I guess, small example of you can use that to divide that story up into what you might think of as chapters where there's different responsibilities and changes in the narrative. Part of that maybe layering in sticky notes that represent who's doing the work. Like who's the actor, whether it's the merchant, or the customer, and then layering in other information, like the systems that are involved in that such as maybe there's email as a system, maybe there's the actual e-commerce platform, a payment gateway, these kinds of things could be reflected and so on, like there's – [overtalk] JESSICA: Probably integration with the shipper. PAUL: Integration with the shipper, right. So potentially, if you're designing this, you would have some kind of event to go out to the shipper to then know to actually pick up the package and that type of thing. And then once the package is actually delivered back to the merchant, then there would be some kind of event letting the merchant know. It's very hard to describe because I'm trying to picture this in my mind, which is an inherently visual thing. It's probably not that interesting to hear me describing something that's usually done on some kind of either mirror board, like some kind of electronic space, or on a piece of butcher's paper, or – [overtalk] DAMIEN: Something with a lot of sticky notes. PAUL: Something with a lot of sticky notes, right. DAMIEN: Which, I believe for our American listeners, sticky notes are the little square pieces of brightly colored paper with self-adhesive strip on the back. PAUL: Yeah. The stickies. DAMIEN: Stickies. [chuckles] I have a question about this process. I've been involved in very similar processes and it sounds incredibly useful. But as you describe it, one of the concerns I have is how do you avoid getting over specific, or over described? Like you can describe systems until you're talking about the particles in the sun, how do you know when to stop? PAUL: So I think there's a couple of things. Number one is at the start of whatever kind of this activity, this EventStorming is laying out what's the goal? What are we trying to accomplish in terms of the process? With returns, for example, it would be maybe from this event to this event, we're trying to map out what that process looks like and you start with what you might call the happy path. What does it look like when everything goes well? And then you can use pink stickies to represent alternate paths, or things going wrong and capture those. If they're not tied back to this goal, then you can say, “Okay, I think we've got enough level of detail here.” The other thing is time boxing is saying, “Okay, well, we've only got half an hour, or we've only got an hour so let's see how much we can do in that time period,” and then at the end of that, if you still have a lot of questions, then you can – or you feel like, “Oh, we need to dig into some of these areas more.” Then you could schedule a follow up session to dig into that a little bit more. So it's a combination of the people that are participating in this deciding how much level of detail they want to go down to. What I find is it typically is something that as you're going through the activity, you start to see. “Oh, maybe this is too far down in the weeds versus this is the right level.” As a facilitator, I don't typically prescribe that ahead of time, because it's much easier to add sticky notes and then talk about them than it is to have a conversation when there's nothing visualized. I like to visualize it first and lay it out and then it's very easy to say, “Oh, well, this looks like too much detail. So we'll just put a placeholder for that and not worry about out it right now.” It's a little bit of the facilitation technique of having a parking lot where you can say, “Okay, this is a good topic, but maybe we don't need to get down in that right now. Maybe let's refocus back on what it is that we're trying to accomplish.” JESSICA: So there's some regulation that happens naturally during the meeting, during interactions and you can have that regulation in the context of the visual representation, which is the EventStorming, the long row of stickies from one event to the other. PAUL: Right, the timeline that you're building up. So it's a little bit in my mind, I watched last year, I think it was on Netflix. There was a documentary about Pixar and how they do their storyboarding process for their movies and it is exactly that. They storyboard out the movie and iterate over that again and again and again telling that story. What's powerful about that is it's a visual medium so you have someone that is sketching out the main beats of the story and then they're talking it through. Not to say that EventStorming is at that level of rigor, but it has that kind of feel to it of we're laying out these events to tell the story and then we're talking through the story and seeing what we've missed and where we need to add more detail, maybe where we've added too much detail. And then like you said, Jess, there's a certain amount of self-regulation in there in terms of, do we have enough time to go down into this? Is this important right now? JESSICA: And I imagine that when I have questions that go further into detail than we were able to go in the meeting, if I've been in that EventStorming session, I know who to ask. PAUL: That's the idea, yeah. So the pink stickies that we said represent questions, what I like about those is, well, several things. Number one, it democratizes the idea that it's okay to ask questions, which I think is a really powerful technique. I think there's a tendency in meetings for some people to hold back and other people to do all the talking. We've all experienced that. What this tries to do is to democratize that and actually make it not only okay and not only accepted, but encourage that you're expected to ask questions and you're expected to put these sticky notes on here when there's things that you don't understand. JESSICA: Putting the questions on a sticky note, along with the events, the actors, and the things that we do know go on sticky notes, the questions also go on sticky notes. All of these are contributions. PAUL: Exactly. They value contributions and what I love about that is that even people that are new to this process, it's a way for them to ask questions in a way that is kind of friendly to them. I've seen this work really well, for example, with onboarding new team members and also, it encourages the idea that we have different areas of expertise. So in any given process, or any business story, whatever you want to characterize it as, some people are going to know more about some parts of it than others. What typically happens is nobody knows the whole story, but when we work together, we can actually build up an approximation of that whole story and help each other fill in the gaps. So you may have the person that's more on the business, or the product side explaining some terminology. You can capture those explanations on sticky notes as a glossary that you're building up as you go. You can have engineers asking questions about the sequence of events in terms of well, does this one come before that one? And then the other thing that's nice about the questions is it actually as you're going, it's mapping out your ignorance and I see that as a positive thing. JESSICA: The known unknowns. PAUL: Known unknowns. It takes unknown unknowns, which the kind of elephant in the room, and at least gets them up as known unknowns that you can then have a conversation around. Because there's often this situation of a question that somebody's afraid to ask and maybe they're new to the team, or maybe they're just not comfortable asking that type of question. But it gives you actually a map of that ignorance so you can kind of see oh, there's this whole area here that just has a bunch of pink stickies. So that's probably not an area we're ready to work on and we should prioritize. Actually, if this is an area that we need to be working on soon, we should prioritize getting answers to these questions by maybe we need to do a proof of concept, or some UX work, or maybe some kind of prototyping around this area, or like you said, Jess, maybe the person that knows the answers to these questions is just not in this session right now and so, we need to follow up with them, get whatever answers we need, and then come back and revisit things. JESSICA: So you identify areas of risk. PAUL: Yes. Areas of risk, both from a product perspective and also from a technical perspective as well. DAMIEN: So what does it take to have one of these events, or to facilitate one of these events? How do you know when you're ready and you can do it? PAUL: So I've done EventStorming [chuckles] as a conference activity in a hallway with sticky notes and we say, “Okay, let's as a little bit of an icebreaker here –” I usually you do the story of Cinderella. “Let's pick the Disney story of Cinderella and we'll just EventStorm this out. Just everyone, here are some orange sticky notes and a Sharpie, just write down some things that you remember happening in that story,” and then everyone writes a few. We post it up on the hallway wall and then we sequence them as a timeline and then we can basically build up that story in about 5, or 10 minutes from scratch. With a business process, it's not that different. It's like, okay, we're going to do returns, or something like that and if people are already familiar with the technique, then just give them a minute, or so to think of some things that they know that would happen in that process. And then they do that individually and then we just post them up on the timeline and then sequence them as a group and it can happen really quickly. And then everything from there is refinement. Iteration and refinement over what you've put up as that initial skeleton. DAMIEN: Do you ever find that a team comes back a week, or a day, or a month later and goes, “Oh, there is this big gap in our narrative because nobody in this room understood the warehouse needed to be reordered in order to send this thing down”? PAUL: Oh, for sure. Sometimes it's big gaps. Sometimes it's a huge cluster of pink sticky notes that represents an area where there's just a lot of risk and unknowns that the team maybe hasn't thought about all that much. Like you said, it could be there's this third-party thing that it wasn't until everyone got in a room and kind of started to map it out, that they realized that there was this gap in their knowledge. JESSICA: Yeah. Although, you could completely miss it if there's nobody from the warehouse in the room and nobody has any idea that you need to tell the warehouse to expect this return. PAUL: Right and so, part of that is putting a little bit of thought into who would need to be part of this and in a certain way, playing devil's advocate in terms of what don't we know, what haven't we thought of. So it encourages that sense of curiosity with this and it's a little bit different from – Some of the listeners maybe have experienced user story mapping and other techniques like that. Those tend to be focused on understanding a process, but they're very much geared towards okay, how do we then figure out how we're going to code up this feature and how do we slice it up into stories and prioritize that. So it's similar in terms of sticky notes, but the emphasis in EventStorming is more on understanding together, the problem that we're trying to address from a business perspective. JESSICA: Knowledge pulling. PAUL: Yeah. Knowledge pulling, knowledge distillation, those types of idea years, and that kind of mindset. So not just jumping straight to code, but trying to get a little bit of a shared understanding of what all is the thing that we're trying to actually work on here. JESSICA: Eric Evans calls it knowledge crunching. PAUL: Yes, Eric called it knowledge crunching. DAMIEN: I love that phrase, that shared understanding. That's what we, as product teams, are generating is a shared understanding both, captured in our documentation, in our code, and before that, I guess on large sheets of butcher paper. [laughs] PAUL: Well, and it could be a quick exercise of okay, we're going to be working on some new feature and let's just spend 15 minutes just mapping it out to get a sense of, are we on the same page with this? JESSICA: Right, because sometimes it's not even about we think we need to know something, it's do we know enough? Let's find out. PAUL: Right. JESSICA: And is that knowledge shared among us? PAUL: Right, and maybe exposing, like it could be as simple as slightly different terminology, or slightly different understanding of terminology between people that can have a big impact in terms of that. I was teaching a workshop last night where we were talking about this, where somebody had written the event. So there was a repair process that a third-party repair company would handle and then the event that closed that process off, they called case closed. So then the question becomes well, what does case closed mean? Because the word case – [overtalk] JESSICA: [laughs] It's like what's the definition of done? PAUL: Right, exactly. [laughter] Because that word case didn't show up anywhere earlier in the process. So is this like a new concept? Because the thing that kicks off the process is repair purchase order created and at the end of the process, it's said case closed. So then the question becomes well, is case closed really, is that a new concept that we actually need to implement here? Or is this another way of saying that we are getting a copy of that repair purchase order back that and it's been updated with details about what the repair involved? Or maybe it's something like repair purchase order closed. So it's kind of forcing us to clarify terminology, which may seem a little bit pedantic, but that's what's going to end up in the code. If you can get some of those things exposed a little earlier before you actually jump to code and get people on the same page and surface any sort of differences in terminology and misunderstandings, I think that can be super helpful for everyone. JESSICA: Yeah. Some people say it's just semantics. Semantics' meaning, its only meaning, this is only about out what this step actually means because when you put it in the code, the code is crystal clear. It is going to do exactly what it does and whether that clarity matches the shared understanding that we think we have oh, that's the difference between a bug and a working system. DAMIEN: [laughs] That's beautiful. It's only meaning. [laughs] JESSICA: Right? Yeah. But this is what makes programming hard is that pedanticness. The computer is the ultimate pedant. DAMIEN: Pedant. You're going to be pedantic about it. [laughter] PAUL: I see what you did there. [laughter] DAMIEN: And that is the occupation, right? That is what we do is look at and create systems and then make them precise. JESSICA: Yeah. DAMIEN: In a way that actually well, is precise. [laughs] JESSICA: Right, and the power of our human language is that it's not precise, that it allows for ambiguity, and therefore, a much broader range of meaning. But as developers, it's our job to be precise. We have to be precise to the computers. It helps tremendously to be precise with each other. DAMIEN: Yeah, and I think that's actually the power of human cognition is that it's not precise. We are very, very fuzzy machines and anyone who tries to pretend otherwise will be greatly disappointed. Ask me how I know. [laughter] PAUL: Well, and I think what I'm trying to do with something like EventStorming is to embrace the fuzziness, is to say that that's actually an asset and we want to embrace that and expose that fuzziness, that messiness. Because the processes we have and work with are often inherently complex. We are trying to provide some visual representation of that so we can actually get our head around, or our minds around the language complexities, the meanings, and drive in a little bit to that meaning. JESSICA: So when the sticky notes pile on top of each other, that's a feature. PAUL: It is. Going back to that example I was just talking about, let's say, there's a bunch of, like we do the initial part of this for a minute, or so where people are creating sticky notes and let's say, we end up with four, or five sticky notes written by different people on top of each other that end up on the timeline that all say pretty much the same thing with slight variations. JESSICA: Let's say, case closed, request closed. PAUL: Case closed, repair purchase order closed, repair purchase order updated, repair purchase order sent. So from a meaning perspective, I look at that and I say, “That's gold in terms of information,” because that's showing us that there's a richness here. Firstly, that's a very memorable thing that's happening in the timeline – [overtalk] JESSICA: Oh and it has multiple things. PAUL: That maybe means it's a key event. Right, and then what is the meaning? Are these the same things? Are they different things? Maybe we don't have enough time in that session to dig into that, but if we're going to implement something around that, or work with something around that, then we're going to at some point need some clarity around the language, the terminology, and what these concepts mean. Also, the sequence as well, because it might be that there's actually multiple events being expressed there that need to be teased apart. DAMIEN: You used this phrase a couple times, “key event,” and since you've used it a couple times, I think it might be key. [laughter] Can you tell us a little bit about what a key event is? What makes something a key event? PAUL: Yeah, the example I like to use is from the Cinderella story. So if you think about the story of Cinderella, one of the things, when people are doing that as an icebreaker, they always end up being multiple copies of the event that usually is something like shoe lost, or slipper lost, or glass slipper lost. There's something about that event that makes it memorable, firstly and then there's something about that event that makes it pivotal in the story. For those that are not familiar with the story [chuckles]—I am because I've EventStormed this thing maybe a hundred times—but there's this part. Another key event is the fairy godmother showing up and doing the magic at the start and she actually describes a business policy. She says, “The magic is going to run out at midnight,” and like all business policies, it's vague [laughter] and it's unclear as to what it means because – [overtalk] JESSICA: The carriage disappears, the dress disappears, but not the slipper that fell off. PAUL: Exactly. There's this exception that for some bizarre reason, to move the plot forward, the slipper stays. But then the definition of midnight is very hazy because what she's actually describing, in software terms, is a long running process of the clock banging 12 times, which is what midnight means is the time between the first and the twelfth and during that time, the magic is slowly unraveling. JESSICA: So midnight is a duration, not an instant. PAUL: Exactly. Yes, it's a process, not an event. So coming back to the question that Damien asked about key events. That slipper being lost is a key event in that story, I think because it actually is a shift in narrative. Up until that point in the story, it's the story of Cinderella and then after that, once the slipper is lost, it becomes the story of the prince looking for Cinderella. And then at the end, you get the day tomorrow, the stuff that happens with that slipper at the end of the story. Another key event would be like the fairy godmother showing up and doing the magic. DAMIEN: [chuckles] It seems like these are necessary events, right? If the slipper is not lost, if the fairy godmother doesn't do magic, you don't have the story of Cinderella. PAUL: Right. These are narrative turns, right? DAMIEN: Yeah. PAUL: These are points of the story shifts and so, key events can sometimes be a narrative shift where it's driving the story forward in a business process. Something like, let's say, you're working on an e-commerce system, like order submitted is a key event because you are adding items to a shopping cart and then at some point, you make a decision to submit the order and then at that point, it transitions from order being a draft thing that is in a state of flux to it actually becomes essentially immutable and gets passed over to fulfilment. So there's a shift in responsibility and actor between these two as well just like between Cinderella and the prince. JESSICA: A shift in who is driving the story forward. PAUL: Right. Yeah. So it's who is driving the story forward. So these key events often function as a shift in actor, a shift in who's driving the story forward, or who has responsibility. They also often indicate a handoff because of that from one group to another in an organization. Something like a sales process that terminates in contract signed. That key event is also the goal of the sales process. The goal is to get to contract signed and then once that happens, there's usually a transition to say, an onboarding group that actually onboards the new customer in the case of a sales process for a new customer, or in e-commerce, it would be the fulfillment part, the warehousing part that Jess was talking about earlier. That's actually responsible for the fulfillment piece, which is they take that order, they create a package, they put all the items in the package, create the shipping label, and ship it out to the customer. JESSICA: And in domain-driven design, you talked about the shift from order being a fluid thing that's changing as people add stuff to their cart to order being immutable. The word order has different meanings for the web site where you're buying stuff and the fulfillment system, there's a shift in that term. PAUL: Right, and that often happens around a key event, or a pivotal event is that there's a shift from one, you might think of it as context, or language over to another. So preorder submission, it's functioning as a draft order, but what it's actually typically called is a shopping cart and a shopping cart is not the same as an order. It's a great metaphor because there is no physical cart, but we all know what that means as a metaphor. A shopping cart is a completely different metaphor from an order, but we're able to understand that thread of continuity between I have this interactive process of taking items, or products, putting them in the shopping cart, or out again. And then at some point that shopping cart, which is functioning as a draft order, actually it becomes an order that has been submitted and then it gets – [overtalk] DAMIEN: Yeah, the metaphor doesn't really work until that transition. You have a shopping cart and then you click purchase and now what? [laughs] You're not going to the register and ringing it up, that doesn't make any sense. [chuckles] The metaphor kind of has to end there. JESSICA: You're not leaving the cart in the corral in the parking lot. [laughter] PAUL: Well, I think what they're trying to do is when you think about going through the purchase process at a store, you take your items up in the shopping cart and then at that point, you transition into a financial transaction that has to occur that then if you were at a big box electronic store, or something, eventually, you would make the payment. You would submit payment. That would be the key events and that payment is accepted and then you receive a receipt, which is kind of the in-person version of a record of your order that you've made because you have to bring the receipt back. DAMIEN: It sort of works if the thing you're putting in the shopping cart are those little cards. When they don't want to put things on the shelf, they have a card, you pick it up, and you take it to register. They ring it up, they give you a receipt, and hopefully, the thing shows up in the mail someday, or someone goes to the warehouse and goes gets it. PAUL: We've all done that. [chuckles] Sometimes it shows up. Sometimes it doesn't. JESSICA: That's an interesting point that at key events, there can be a shift in metaphor. PAUL: Yes. Often, there is. So for example, I mentioned earlier, a sales process ending in a contract and then once the contract is signed, the team – let's say, you're signing on a new customer, for a SaaS service, or something like that. Once they've signed the contract, the conversation isn't really about the contract anymore. It's about what do we need to do to onboard this customer. Up until that point, the emphasis is maybe on payment, legal disclosures, and things like that. But then the focus shifts after the contract is signed to more of an operational focus of how do we get the data in, how do we set up their accounts correctly, that type of thing. JESSICA: The contract is an input to that process. PAUL: Yes. JESSICA: Whereas, it was the output, the big goal of the sales process. PAUL: Yes, exactly. So these key events also function from a systems perspective, when you think about moving this to code that event then becomes almost like a message potentially. Could be implemented as say, a message that's being passed from the sales system through to the onboarding system, or something like that. So it functions as the integration point between those two, where the language has to be translated from one context to another. JESSICA: And it's an integration point we can define carefully so that makes it a strong boundary and a good place to divide the system. DAMIEN: Nice. PAUL: Right. So that's where it starts to connect to some of the things that people really care about these days in terms of system decomposition and things like that. Because you can start thinking about based on a process view of this, based on a behavior view of this, if we treat these key events as potential emergent boundaries in a process, like we've been describing, that we discover through mapping out the process, then that can give us some clues as to hmm maybe these boundaries don't exist in the system right now, but they could. These could be places where we start to tease things apart. JESSICA: Right. Where you start breaking out separate services and then when you get down to the user story level, the user stories expect a consistent language within themselves. You're not going to go from cart to return purchase in a case. PAUL: [laughs] Right. JESSICA: In a single user story. User stories are smaller scope and work within a single language. PAUL: Right and so, I think the connection there in my mind is user stories have to be written in some kind of language, within some language context and mapping out the process can help you understand where you are in that context and then also understand, like if you think about a process that maybe has a sales part of the process and then an onboarding part, it'll often be the case that there's different development teams that are focusing on different parts of that process. So it provides a way of them seeing what their integration point is and what might need to happen across that integration point. If they were to either integrate to different systems, or if they're trying to tease apart an existing system. To use Michael Feathers' term, what might be a “scene” that we could put in here that would allow us to start teasing these things apart. And doing it with the knowledge of the product people that are part of the visualization, too is that this isn't something typically that engineers do exclusively from a technical perspective. The idea with EventStorming is you are also bringing in other perspectives like product, business, stakeholders, and anyone that might have more of that business perspective in terms of what the goals of the process are and what the steps are in the process. MID-ROLL: And now a quick word from our sponsor. I hear people say the VPNs have a reputation for slowing down your internet speed, but not with NordVPN, because it's the fastest VPN in the world. I don't have to sacrifice internet speed for better security. With NordVPN, my internet traffic is routed through a secure encrypted tunnel, which protects my data and privacy. I can also have it on up to six devices like my laptop, phone, TV, iPad—all my devices are protected. Grab your exclusive NordVPN deal by going to nordvpn.com/gtc, or use the code GTC to get a huge discount on your NordVPN plan plus one additional month for free. Plus, a bonus gift! It's completely risk-free with Nord's 30-day money back guarantee. JESSICA: As a developer, it's so important to understand what those goals are, because that lets us make good decisions when we're down in the weeds and getting super precise. PAUL: Right, I think so. I think often, I see teams that are implementing stories, but not really understanding the why behind that in terms of maybe they get here's the functionality on delivering and how that fits into the system. But like I talked about before, when you're driving a process towards a key event, that becomes the goal of that subprocess. So the question then becomes how does the functionality that I'm going to implement that's described in this user story actually move people towards that goal and maybe there's a better way of implementing it to actually get them there. DAMIEN: Yeah, it's always important to keep that in mind, because there's always going to be ambiguity until you have a running system, or ran system, honestly. JESSICA: Yeah! DAMIEN: There's always going to be ambiguity, which it is our job as people writing code to manage and we need to know. Nobody's going to tell us exactly what's going to happen because that's our job. PAUL: Right. JESSICA: It's like if the developer had a user story that Cinderella's slipper fell off, but they do didn't realize that the goal of that was that the prince picked it up, then they might be like, “Oh, slipper broke. That's fine.” PAUL: Yeah. JESSICA: It's off the foot. Check the box. PAUL: Let's create a glass slipper factory implementer object [laughter] so that we can just create more of those. JESSICA: Oh, yeah. What, you wanted a method slip off in one piece? You didn't say that. I've created crush! PAUL: Right. [laughter] Yeah. So I think sometimes there's this potential to get lost in the weeds of the everyday development work that is happening and I like to tie it back to what is the actual story that we're supporting. And then sometimes what people think of as exception cases, like an example might be going back to that merchant return example is what if they issue the shipper label, but the buyer never receives it. We may say, “Well, that's never going to happen,” or “That's unlikely.” But visualizing that case, you may say, “That's actually a strong possibility. How do we handle that case and bake that into the design so that it actually reflects what we're trying to do?” JESSICA: And then you make an event that just triggers two weeks later that says, “Check whether customer received label.” PAUL: Yes, exactly. One thing you can do as well is like – so that's one possibility of solving it. The idea what EventStorming can let you do is say, “Well, that's one way of doing it. Are there any other options in terms of how we could handle this, let's visualize.” With any exception case, or something, you could say, “Well, let's try solving this a few different ways. Just quickly come up with some different ideas and then we can pull the best of those ideas into that.” So the idea when you're modeling is to say, “Okay, well, there's probably more than one way to address this. So maybe let's get a few ideas on the table and then pick the best out of these.” JESSICA: Or address it at multiple levels. PAUL: Yes. JESSICA: A fallback for the entire process is customer contact support again. PAUL: Right, and that may be the simple answer in that kind of case. What we're trying to do, though is to visualize that case as an option and then talk about it, have a structured conversation around it, say, “Well, how would we handle that?” Which I think from a product management perspective is a key thing to do is to engage the engineers in saying, “Well, what are some different ways that we could handle this and solve this?” If you have people that are doing responsibility primarily for testing in that, then having them weigh in on, well, how would we test this? What kind of test cases might we need to handle for this? So it's getting – [overtalk] JESSICA: How will we know it worked? PAUL: Different perspectives and opinions on the table earlier rather than later. JESSICA: And it's cheap. It's cheap, people. It's a couple hours and a lot of post-its. You can even buy the generic post-its. We went to Office Depot yesterday, it's $10 for 5 little Post-it pads, [laughter] or 25 Office Depot brand post-it pads. They don't have to stay on the wall very long; the cheap ones will work. PAUL: [laughs] So those all work and then it depends if you have shares in 3M, I guess, with you. [laughter] Or Office Depot, depending which road you want to go down. [laughter] JESSICA: Or if you really care about that shade of pale purple, which I do. PAUL: Right. I mean, what's been fascinating to me is in the last 2 years with switching to remote work and that is so much of, 95% of the EventStorming I do these days is on a collaborative whiteboard tool like Miro, or MURAL, which I don't know why those two product names are almost exactly the same. But then it's even cheaper because you can sign up for a free account, invite a few people, and then just start adding sticky notes to some virtual whiteboard and do it from home. There's a bunch of things that you can do on tool like that with copy pasting, moving groups of sticky notes around, rearranging things, and ordering things much – [overtalk] JESSICA: And you never run out of wall. PAUL: Yeah. The idea with the butcher's paper in a physical workshop, in-person workshop is you're trying to create a sense of unending modeling space that you can use. That you get for free when you use online collaborative whiteboarding tool. It's just there out of – [overtalk] JESSICA: And you can zoom in. PAUL: And you zoom in and out. Yeah. There's a – [overtalk] JESSICA: Stickies on your stickies on your stickies. [laughter] I'm not necessarily recommending that, but you can do it. PAUL: Right. The group I was working with last night, they'd actually gone to town using Miro emojis. They had something bad happen in the project and they've got the horror emoji [laughter] and then they've got all kinds of and then copy pasting images off the internet for things. JESSICA: Nice. PAUL: So yeah, can make it even more fun. JESSICA: Okay. So it's less physical, but in a lot of ways it can be more expressive, PAUL: I think so. More expressive and just as engaging and it can break down the geographical barriers. I've done sessions where we've had people simultaneously spread in multiple occasions across the US and Europe in the same session, all participating in real-time. If you're doing it remote, I like to keep it short. So maybe we do like a 2-hour session with a 10- or 15-minute break in the middle, because you're trying to manage people's energy and keep them focused and it's hard to do that when you just keep going. MANDY: I kind of want to talk a little bit about facilitation and how you facilitate these kind of workshops and what you do, engage people and keep them interested. PAUL: Yeah. So I think that it depends a little bit on the level of detail we're working at. If it's at the level of a few team members trying to figure out a feature, then it can be very informal. Not a lot of facilitation required. Let's just write down what the goal is and then go through the process of brainstorming a few stickies, laying it out, and then sequencing it as a timeline, adding questions. It doesn't require a lot of facilitation hand. I think the key thing is just making sure that people are writing down their questions and that it's time boxed. So quitting while people are still interested and then [laughter] at the end, before you finish, having a little bit of a conversation around what might the next steps be. Like what did we learn? You could do a couple of minutes retrospective, add a sticky note for something you learned in this session, and then what do you see as our next steps and then move on from there with whatever action items come out of that. So that one doesn't require, I think a lot of facilitation and people can get up and running with that pretty quickly. I also facilitate workshops that are a lot more involved where it's at the other end of the spectrum, where it's a big picture workshop where we're mapping out maybe an entire value stream for an organization. We may have a dozen, 20 people involved in a session like that representing different departments, different organizational silos and in that case, it requires a lot more planning, a lot more thinking through what the goal of the workshop is, who would you need to invite? Because there's a lot more detail involved and a lot more people involved, that could be four, or five multi-hour sessions spread over multiple days to be able to map out an entire value stream from soup to nuts. And then usually the goal of something like that is some kind of system modernization effort, or maybe spinning up a new project, or decomposing a legacy system, or even understanding what a legacy system does, or process improvement that will result inevitably in some software development in certain places. I did a workshop like that, I think last August and out of that, we identified a major bottleneck in the process that everyone in the workshop, I think it was just a bunch of pink stickies in one area that it got called the hot mess. [laughter] It was one area and what was happening was there were several major business concerns that were all coupled together in this system. They actually ended up spinning up a development team to focus on teasing apart the hot mess to figure out how do we decompose that down? JESSICA: Yes. PAUL: As far as I know, that effort was still ongoing as of December. I'm assuming that's still running because it was prioritized as we need to be able to decompose this part of this system to be able to grow and scale to where we want to get to. JESSICA: Yeah. That's a major business risk that they've got. They at least got clarity about where it is. PAUL: Right. Yeah, and what we did from there is I coached the developers through that process over several months. So we actually EventStormed it out at a much lower level. Once we figured out what the hot mess was, let's map it out and then they combined that with some flow charting and a bunch of other more engineering, kind of oriented visualization techniques, state machines, things like that to try and get a handle on what was going on. DAMIEN: We'll get UML in there eventually, right? PAUL: Eventually. [laughter] You can't do software development without some kind of state machine, sequence diagram. JESSICA: And it's approximating UML. You can't do it. You can't do it. [laughter] You will either use it, or you will derive a pigeon form of it. PAUL: Right. Well, I still use it for state diagrams and sequence diagrams when I'm down at that technical level. What I find is that there's a certain level of rigor that UML requires for a sequence diagram, or something like that that seems to get in the way of collaboration. So EventStorming sacrifices some of that rigor to be able to draw in everyone and have a low bar of entry to having people participate. DAMIEN: That's a huge insight. Why do you think that is? Is it the inability to hold that much information at a high level of rigor, or just people not used to working at that sort of precision and rigor? PAUL: I think that when I'm working with people that are not hands-on coders, they are in the everyday, like say, product managers, or stakeholders, to use those terms. They're in the everyday details of how the business process works and they tend to think of that process more as a series of steps that they're going through in a very specific kind of way. Like, I'm shipping a certain product, or supporting the shipping. or returning of certain types of products, those kinds of things. Whereas, as developers, we tend to think of it more in terms of the abstractions of the system and what we're trying to implement in the code. So the idea of being able to tell the story of a process in terms of the events that happen is a very natural thing, I find for people from a business perspective to do because that's how they tend to think about it. Whereas, I think as programmers, we're often taught not so much to think about behavior as a sequence of things happening, but more as the structure we've been taught to design in terms of structures and relationships rather than flow. JESSICA: Yet that's changing with event sourcing. PAUL: I think so. EventStorming and event sourcing become a very natural complement for each other and even event-driven architecture, or any event-driven messaging, whatever it happens to be. The gap between modeling using EventStorming and then designing some kind of event-driven distributed system, or even not distributed, but still event-driven is much more natural than trying to do something like an entity relationship diagram and they'd get from that to some kind of meaningful understanding of what's the story of how these functions and features are going to work. JESSICA: On the topic of sacrificing rigor for collaboration, I think you have to sacrifice rigor to work across content texts because you will find contradictions between them. The language does have different meaning before and after the order is submitted and you have to allow for that in the collaboration. It's not that you're not going to have the rigor. It's more that you're postponing it, you're scoping it as separately. This meeting is about the higher level and you need completeness over consistency. DAMIEN: Yeah. I feel like almost you have to sacrifice rigor to be effective in most roles and in that way, sacrifice is even the wrong word. Most of the things that we do as human beings do not allow for the sort of rigor of the things that we do as software engineers and things that computers do. JESSICA: Yeah. DAMIEN: And it's just, the world doesn't work that way. PAUL: Right. Well, and it's the focus in EventStorming on exploration, discovery, and urgent ideas versus rigor is more about not so much exploring and discovery, but about converging on certain things. So when someone says pedant and the other person says pedant, or vice versa, that tends to shut down the conversation because now you are trying to converge on some agreed upon term versus saying, “Well, let's explore a bunch of different ways this could be expressed and temporarily defer trying converge on.” JESSICA: Later in Slack, we'll vote. PAUL: Yes. JESSICA: Okay. So standardize later. PAUL: Yes. Standardize, converge later, and for now, let's kind of hold that at arm's length so that we can uncover and discover different perspectives on this in terms of how the story works and then add regulator when we go to code and then you may discover things in code where there are implicit concepts that you then need to take back to the modeling to try and figure out well, how do we express this? Coming up with some kind of term in the code and being able to go from there. JESSICA: Right. Some sort of potential return because it hasn't happened yet. PAUL: Exactly. So maybe it's a potential, maybe it's some other kind of potential return, like pending return, maybe we don't call it a return at all. JESSICA: Or disliked item because we could – or unsatisfactory item because we could intercept that and try to like, “Hey, how about we send you the screws that we're missing?” PAUL: Right. Yeah, maybe the answer is not a return at all. JESSICA: Yeah. PAUL: But maybe the case is that the customer says they want to return it, but you actually find a way to get them to buy more stuff by sending them something else that they would be happy with. So the idea is we're trying to promote discovery thinking when we are talking about how to understand certain problems and how to solve them rather than closing off options too soon. MANDY: So, Paul, I know you do give these workshops. Is there anything? Where can people find you? How can people learn more? How can people hire you to facilitate a workshop and get in touch with you? PAUL: Okay. Well, in terms of resources, Damien had mentioned at the beginning, I have an eBook up on Leanpub, The EventStorming Handbook, so if people are interested in learning more, they can get that. And then I do workshop facilitation and training through my company, Virtual Genius. They can go to virtualgenius.com and look at what training is available. It's all online these days, so they can participate from anywhere. We have some public workshops coming up in the coming months. And then they can find me, I'm @ThePaulRayner on Twitter, just to differentiate me from all the indefinite articles that are out there. [laughter] MANDY: Sounds good. Well, let's head into reflections. I can start. I just was thinking while we were talking about this episode, about how closely this ties into my background in professional writing, technical writing to be exact, and just how you have this process to lay out exactly what steps need to be taken and to differentiate when people say the same things and thinking about, “Well, they're saying the same things, but the words matter,” and to get pedantic, that can be a good thing, especially when you are writing technical documents and how-tos. I remember still, my first job being a technical writer and looking at people in a machine shop who it was like, first, you do this, then you do this, then you do this and to me, I was like, “This is so boring.” But it makes sense and it matters. So this has been a really good way for me to think about it as a newbie just likening it to technical writing. JESSICA: Yeah. Technical writing has to tell that story. DAMIEN: I'm going to be reflecting on this has been such a great conversation and I feel like I have a lot of familiarity with at least a very similar process. I brought up all my fears that come from them, which is like, what if we don't have the right person in the room? What if there's something we didn't discover? And you said something about how you can do this in 5 minutes and how you can do this in 15 minutes and I realized, “Oh, this process doesn't have to be the 6-hour things that I've participated in and facilitated in. It can also be done more smaller and more iteratively and I can bring this sort of same process and thought process into more of the daily work.” So that's super helpful for me. JESSICA: I want to reflect on a phrase that Paul said and then Damien emphasized, which is shared understanding. It's what we're trying to get to in EventStorming across teams and across functions. I think it's also like what we're constantly trying to get to as humans. We value shared understanding so much because we're trapped in our heads and my experience in my head is never going to be the same as your experience in your head. But at some point, we share the same physical world. So if we can get that visual representation, if we can be talking together about something in that visual world, we can pass ideas back and forth more meaningfully. We can achieve this shared understanding. We can build something together. And that feels so good. I think that that constant building of shared understanding is a lot of what it means to be human and I get really excited when I get to do that at work. PAUL: I think I would just add to that as well is being human, I'm very much aware of limitations in terms of how many ideas I can hold in my head at any one time. I know the times where I've been in the experience that many describe where someone's giving me a list of steps to follow and things like that, inevitably I'm like, “Well, I remember like the first two, maybe three,” and then everything after that is kind of Charlie Brown. What, what, why? [laughter] I don't remember anything they said from that point on. But when I can visualize something, then I can take it in one go. I can see it and we're building it together. So for me, it's a little bit of a mind hack in terms of getting over the limitations of how many things I can keep in my mind at one time. Also, like you said, Jess, getting those things out of my mind and out of other people's minds into a shared space where we can actually collaborate on them together, I think that's really important to be able to do that in a meaningful way. MANDY: Well, thank you so much for coming on the show today, Paul. We really enjoyed this discussion. And if you, as listeners, would like to continue this conversation, please head over to Patreon.com/greaterthancode. We have a Slack channel. You can pledge and donate to sponsor us as little as a dollar and you can come in, hang out, talk with us about these episodes. If not, give me a DM on Twitter and let me know, and I'll let you in anyway because [laughter] that's what we do here at Greater Than Code. PAUL: Because Mandy's awesome. MANDY: [laughs] Thank you, Paul. With that, thank you everyone for listening and we'll see you again next week. Special Guest: Paul Rayner.

Co-host Peter takes us past the obvious and into the sublime with the second installment of our three-part celebration of Philadelphia International Records. At the center of this discussion is the unjustly unsung singer Billy Paul.   If you like us, please support us at patreon.com/idbuythatpodcast to get exclusive content (episodes on 45s!), or tell a friend about us. Broke and have no friends? Leave us a review, it helps more people find us. Thanks! 

On this episode of the Wooh Woop podcast we give our closing statements on the Western Conference finals. We also speak on the major injuries to both Eastern Conference finals franchise players. Towards the end of the podcast we also discuss the multiple coaching hires throughout the league. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

WELCOME EVERYONE! IT'S THE EAZYSENSE SHOW!. WITH HOST-DR. BRODERICK- COMING TO YOU LIVE FROM BOLD BRAVE MEDIA & TUNE IN RADIO My Showpiece Wednesday Evening, May 12th, 2021 at 7PM Eastern-The Covid Brain, THE EAZYSENSE SHOW-#78 Preferred Health Magazine, editor-in- chief Angelina Rios speaks of Dr. Broderick's work on the Covid Brain LIVE during the Melissa Billy Clark Show!!! Tau publication --mine-in Medcrave published August 22, 2021- Jahnavi had it offline for me to correct typesetter- this is how my book will be done cannot believe my CPA-She stopped my taxes from being done-suspended them with a thousand dollar retainer-and my work is disrupted. I had a wonderful Mother's Day and I hope you did too.We're going to film on Bold brave TV.com.Tom is beefing up the ad at the end of the show. I am back to my book coming from singapore as soon as grades are done.Serena and Nada will help. .I want this done by June 30th and that is when the Med research Archives publication will be done.Oh the provost, I have a list of publications and Jasmine will help, Topics:Variant 1.617 is at the crux of the Indian Covid Crisis! Nature, May 11th, 2021. Photo of indian people holding their oxygen tanks as they line up to fill Oxygen tanks. I have a nitrogen tank in my lab and I cannot believe this sight. You see we use nitrogen to remove the oxygen from the cell in which we wish to see neurotransmitters, Ascorbic acid removes oxygen from the brain , the part that is making neurotransmitters in free radicals. So critical to see the different roles of the same molecule in different parts of the body, brain and blood. Prime Minister Modi is under severe criticism for not locking down. He gathered billions of people to celebrate the immunity of the Inisian . Look now! My work involves India , the prime minister, the Indian Government and Indian Angel. 4 billion people in a space one third the size of the US. RAising of taxes and the blunder of thinking he had cured covid. Eazysense is worried about its contracts, Does anyone know about word press- yes Tom knows a way to program a website- I have hundreds to thousands of notes for me to approve on this, This is what I am hearing,.Oh, a disaster: the huntingtin gene, the hope of cure for Huntington's disease is not working. The gene theory here has failed. Billions of dollars lost. Billions of hearts broken,. Dr. Farley in New Jersey says only 5 % of the gene theories for worrying about our genes are actually the worry. Covid long haulers- the symptoms mimic chronic fatigue syndrome-Paul- Let us look into meds for chronic fatigue syndrome. I think Covid is a prion inside and out!!! and I think that some vaccines could cure PD- Patent protection gone US for and Germany against. The Annals of Medicine- the New Yorker- can we regenerate a liver? Yes, the area around the penumbra in stroke victims does this. My work shows regeneration. the BRODERICK PROBE regenerates the transfer of electrons, https://www.preferredhealthmagazine.com/Dr. Patricia A. Broderick, Medical CUNY School of Medicine, CCNYProfessor broderick@med.cuny.eduWebsites: https://www.ccny.cuny.edu/profiles/patricia-broderickhttps://www.eazysensenanotechnology.comhttps://www.eazysensationalbrainimaging.comhttps://www.eazysense.com

Aimee: So Paul, what's the most memorable job experience that you have?Paul: Hmm, well, I think the most memorable one is the volunteering time that I spent in Australia. And I was up in the northeastern corner where there's a relatively small rainforest. And I was helping with a research station that's located in the rainforest. So we do a range of different things, going from trying to control coconuts—coconut trees.Aimee: Control?Paul: Yeah, because, like, believe it or not, you imagine this kind of tropical paradise to have coconut trees but they're actually very invasive and they're not native to that area. And basically, if you let a population of coconut trees to go out of control, nothing else can grow.Aimee: Oh.They drop their fronds, and they drop, obviously the coconuts, and nothing else can grow. So you basically lose a lot of the native species there. So we're trying to keep them under control. There was also caring for bats that had been orphaned. Sometimes they're born with physical disabilities that mean they can't survive in the wild.Aimee: Like a sanctuary then?Paul: Yes. Just like a sanctuary, yeah. So they take care of—Aimee: What size of bats, like any other—Paul: Fruit bats.Aimee: What size are they?Paul: They're pretty, like, once they spread—they're like little monkeys with big wings.Aimee: Yeah. So what's their wingspan then? About?Paul: Let's say, maybe, I guess up to probably 4 feet. Does that sound too much?Aimee: So about a meter?Paul: Yeah. Some of the big dudes, they got huge wingspan.Aimee: Oh, the only bats I've seen in real life are really tiny. They're just like mice.Paul: Oh, the micro-bats.Aimee: They're like little birds, you know. You see them flying around and you think, “Oh that's birds.” No, they're bats. So these guys sound pretty big.Paul: Hmm, but they're completely like omnivorous. They only eat fruit, so like, they really—Aimee: Do they eat the coconuts?Paul: Well, the coconuts are kind of tough for them to get into. You need to be able to make a hole, I suppose, to get that.Aimee: Of course, yeah.Paul: But they eat all, mostly like fleshy fruits; apples or whatever they can get really—berries. They're really important for spreading—because obviously, they eat the flesh of the fruit but they don't eat the seeds. So they just kind of pass through them and they're really useful for dispersing seeds. So rainforest regeneration, they're very important animals.Aimee: So they're like the big bumblebees of the rainforest, then.Paul: Yeah. I guess you could look at it like that, yeah. So yeah, that was an interesting volunteering kind of odd job that I had, I suppose.Aimee: Yeah. Essentially yet really cool.Paul: I really like to go back there someday.

Aimee: So Paul, what's the most memorable job experience that you have?Paul: Hmm, well, I think the most memorable one is the volunteering time that I spent in Australia. And I was up in the northeastern corner where there's a relatively small rainforest. And I was helping with a research station that's located in the rainforest. So we do a range of different things, going from trying to control coconuts—coconut trees.Aimee: Control?Paul: Yeah, because, like, believe it or not, you imagine this kind of tropical paradise to have coconut trees but they're actually very invasive and they're not native to that area. And basically, if you let a population of coconut trees to go out of control, nothing else can grow.Aimee: Oh.They drop their fronds, and they drop, obviously the coconuts, and nothing else can grow. So you basically lose a lot of the native species there. So we're trying to keep them under control. There was also caring for bats that had been orphaned. Sometimes they're born with physical disabilities that mean they can't survive in the wild.Aimee: Like a sanctuary then?Paul: Yes. Just like a sanctuary, yeah. So they take care of—Aimee: What size of bats, like any other—Paul: Fruit bats.Aimee: What size are they?Paul: They're pretty, like, once they spread—they're like little monkeys with big wings.Aimee: Yeah. So what's their wingspan then? About?Paul: Let's say, maybe, I guess up to probably 4 feet. Does that sound too much?Aimee: So about a meter?Paul: Yeah. Some of the big dudes, they got huge wingspan.Aimee: Oh, the only bats I've seen in real life are really tiny. They're just like mice.Paul: Oh, the micro-bats.Aimee: They're like little birds, you know. You see them flying around and you think, “Oh that's birds.” No, they're bats. So these guys sound pretty big.Paul: Hmm, but they're completely like omnivorous. They only eat fruit, so like, they really—Aimee: Do they eat the coconuts?Paul: Well, the coconuts are kind of tough for them to get into. You need to be able to make a hole, I suppose, to get that.Aimee: Of course, yeah.Paul: But they eat all, mostly like fleshy fruits; apples or whatever they can get really—berries. They're really important for spreading—because obviously, they eat the flesh of the fruit but they don't eat the seeds. So they just kind of pass through them and they're really useful for dispersing seeds. So rainforest regeneration, they're very important animals.Aimee: So they're like the big bumblebees of the rainforest, then.Paul: Yeah. I guess you could look at it like that, yeah. So yeah, that was an interesting volunteering kind of odd job that I had, I suppose.Aimee: Yeah. Essentially yet really cool.Paul: I really like to go back there someday.

One year ago we listed a business that created a massive amount of activity, garnering ten offers, many above asking price. As part of our incredible exit series, today we welcome a seller who has had some time to reflect on all the things he did right in his sale and share what he has been up to since. Paul Anderson started his career as an accountant, taking the safe path and spending ten years in corporate America. An increasing lack of passion led him to start to build his own lifeboat. He avidly studied Amazon FBA and learned by following experts in the e-commerce space. Although his first launch failed he carried on, honing his awareness of product opportunities out there and eventually he hit it big. Today Paul delves into the building of the business, the pillars of his success, and the components of his path to becoming an exitpreneur. Episode Highlights: Paul's first product's failure to launch and what he learned. How he sourced the second product and what happened in the last quarter of 2016. Funding subsequent stock and the challenges of inventory planning. How Paul stands on all four pillars of a successfully built business as well as that invisible fifth pillar. The scheduling and nitty gritty of the sale process. How the final buyer was chosen and the deciding factors for Paul. Why the highest bidder does not always win. The toughest challenges of running the business. Why Paul decided to sell. What he has been doing since the sale. Tips for building a successful content website. Transcription: Mark: So almost one year ago to the date of the recording of this episode of the podcast I was on a car ride with Joe; you Joe from where was it? It was from Dallas down to Houston and then Houston back up to Dallas. We were meeting with a good friend of ours that lived in Houston and while we were in that car ride you had launched a new listing that went absolutely berserk. And I've referenced this; I think we've actually talked about this on the podcast a few times, I've referenced this deal because it was one of these outlier deals that seem to check every single box and the result was just a massive amount of requests for phone calls and I believe 10 offers within a very short amount of time. And it's been a year since that launched and obviously, the deal closed which we're super happy about but now you finally get to have the seller on the podcast talking about all the things that he did right. Joe: Yeah it's a great time because it's a year out so he gets to look back. And over the years of doing this podcast the people listening have heard us talk about the four pillars; risk, growth, transferability, and documentation and someone might go yeah ok whatever, the reality is that they matter. Paul Anderson sold his business; 10 offers, he checked off every one of these pillars and the six little subtitles under each pillar and then the fifth one which I know Mark there's no fifth pillar, but the fifth one is the man or person or entrepreneur behind the business. Paul being a former CPA turned entrepreneur who outsourced his bookkeeping to a bookkeeper is just a super likable guy, stay at home dad, buttoned up in so many different ways. The end result is I had to clear his schedule; he basically had three conference calls with highly qualified buyers for five days in a row. He was exhausted from it because each one was… Joe: So you had 15 conference calls then. Paul: 15 conference calls. Joe: And I remember again we were in the car going back up to Dallas and you were on the phone pretty much constantly telling people okay let me see if I can arrange a time for you. So there was a lot more requests for conference calls on this deal. Paul: A lot more requests and we say we had 10 offers but finally a few people dropped out because they just didn't want to compete because they knew what it is going to be. And the funny thing is people get concerned about that and we always say right up front look don't get caught up in the hype of multiple offers, don't go beyond your comfort level, offer-wise. We want you to make an offer that works for you and hopefully will work for the seller as well because we want it to go all the way from letter of intent through to due diligence and that's exactly what we wound up with. And oddly enough Paul did not choose as we always say they don't necessarily choose the highest price. He didn't do that. He picked the offer that was best for him and I think it was somewhere $150,000 lower than the highest price. So we talked about a little bit of that process, what makes a good seller, a good buyer, and then we talked about what he's doing today which is really interesting as well so hopefully, everybody will enjoy this podcast. Joe: Absolutely. Paul: Let's go to it. Joe: Hey folks. Joe Valley here from the Quiet Light Podcast and today I have an Incredible Exits client on the phone with me. It's Paul Anderson. We sold Paul's business I think; when was it, Paul? Paul: March of last year, so a little under a year ago. Joe: Spring of 2019; so a little under a year ago. So we're going to talk about Paul's exit. We're going to talk about what Paul went through when he built the business, sold the business after he sold the business, and what he's doing now so we're going to get the full picture. Paul welcome to the Quiet Light Podcast. Paul: Thanks Joe, good to be here. Good to talk to you. Joe: So for the folks listening why don't you give a little bit of background on your professional pedigree and your entrepreneurial journey? Paul: Yeah, sure. So I actually studied accounting and followed that path. I was kind of one of those people that never really knew what I wanted to do. Like some people I think they're just like hey I want to be a TV news reporter or a journalist, I never really had that strong thing tapped me on the shoulder that said this is what you should do so I took a pretty safe practical path. I went into accounting and got my CPA. I spent about 10 years working in corporate America doing accounting and finance jobs and didn't really ever feel like that passion and eventually it started to kind of wear me down. I got to the point where I had to think of something else to do and try to build my own little lifeboat to escape from that because something inside me just didn't feel right anymore doing that. So that's kind of what led into starting a business. So that's in 2016. Somewhere; I don't even remember where I started to hear about Amazon FBA and I kind of consumed everything I could about it like podcasts, there's this guy Manny Coats inaudible[00:06:09.6] Helium10, he had a great podcast back then, Amazing Seller; there's all sorts of good stuff online about the model and that's kind of how it started and I started really small. We can get into it from there but that was kind of the first step, learning about it and seeing like oh I think I could do this. Joe: So you learned about it from podcasts; you didn't pay for a course or anything like that, you were absorbing free information from experts in the space. Paul: I never bought a single course it was all podcasts, Facebook groups, Reddit forums, and I was just… Joe: I love it. Paul: Yeah I can tell you about the first launch which was a total fail but that was like my training course like the very first launch because I learned. Joe: Failure is a great lesson. How much money did you pull together to launch the business and were you working at that point in the CPA business? Paul: Yeah I was still working. It was 2016, I put $5,000 in to do; most of it was an inventory buy so I was on Alibaba like at night trying to find my suppliers talking with China and I put in probably about 5,000 bucks to start on my first product. Joe: Okay. And you just mentioned Helium10; did you use Helium10 to help you find that first product? Paul: Yes. So it's funny like almost all the products I launched I've kind of like encountered in the real world somewhere and the product that turned out to be my big business was I kind of got onto it from a discussion with my parents. We're just having a casual discussion like you would have many times a day and they mentioned this particular thing and I would always in my iPhone put down; anything that seemed interesting I would just like log it in there and then I come back to it. So I had a list of 20 to 30 things going and I went back and started doing some research. I actually was using Jungle Scout back then and I switched over to Helium10 for everything now. Joe: Oh they're both great products; both of them. Manny and Greg have both been on the podcast; great guys. Paul: Yeah, for sure. So I kind of punched it in there and said like oh this looks like; the numbers look good and that's kind of how it started but it really was that conversation being like; I think if there's a lesson there it's being aware, we have so many kinds of filters and blinders on like if you really put yourself in the headspace of looking for opportunities you'd be surprised how many little things you read online or you hear about through friends like this is really popular; there's just all sorts of those little things that pop up that could turn out to be big businesses. Joe: So pay attention to your surroundings; the stuff that you use every day, emerging products in categories and niches and try to pay attention to and think is there an opportunity? Did you use any tools to see if a lot of people were selling in that particular category and that particular product? Paul: I mean Jungle Scout helps with that but mainly you can just go on and kind of assess like if page one everyone's got a thousand reviews and they're really well-known brands or something that's probably going to be a tough place to break into. Joe: Tough barrier; okay. So tell us about your first test, it was an epic fail? Paul: Yeah, so I was really pumped and thought like here it is, this is going to be like my ticket out of full-time work and it's going to be amazing and it was actually an accessory. Have you ever heard of pour-over coffee? Joe: Yeah. Paul: So that was kind of just bubbling up, seeming like oh this is really a trending product… Joe: Too much work; I never bought it because… Paul: Too much work, yeah, but there's a lot of people that are really into the craft obviously a coffee one and having some artisan experience. So I sourced these little wooden coffee stands that's basically used to make pour-over coffee. And it was kind of a cool thing but it turns out products made out of wood can crack and can break and have issues and I was not an expert at sourcing at that point in time so the long story short a lot of the products ended up cracking and breaking. And then once you start getting all these one-star reviews and returns; like my garage was full all around with carts of returned inventory and there wasn't that much demand I think. At the start, I was thinking oh you really got a niche down into this little tiny space and own that and there just wasn't quite enough demand in that space either. So I kind of learned to be a little smarter on sourcing and just to look for ways that things can go wrong inaudible[00:10:31.6] thing that's just so niche that like even if you execute and everything is great like you're going to be selling a couple of units a day. Joe: So how much money did you test and lose on that first product launch? Paul: So that was about 5,000 bucks in and I didn't take to bad a bee but I think I lost about a thousand dollars on it which isn't bad. Joe: Oh that's not bad. Paul: Yeah. Joe: Not enough to make you go away and say okay this didn't work I'm done; I'm going to go back to the corporate world. You got a taste for it and you said okay I just picked the wrong product. Paul: Exactly. And I mean I was still in the corporate world and like 5,000 bucks it's not like a lot of money at the time so it wasn't like I was; I'm like yeah whatever it doesn't matter. At that point, the stakes felt real and high. Joe: Yeah. Paul: Because it definitely was like I can see the power here on Amazon it's just like finding the right thing to really get this thing spinning. Joe: Okay. So you learned a lesson; you only lost 20% of your money but you get an excellent education from it better than any course you could have ever purchased. You went out there tried it, failed, learned, and didn't lose so much that you couldn't do it again. So you came up with another product niche and decided to go at it again? Paul: Exactly yes. So then I was actually going over to; are you familiar with the Canton Fair which is the big supplier…? Joe: Yeah. Paul: So I had a trip booked to go over there and kind of in-between going there… Joe: Just out of curiosity did you book it with a group or was it just you? Paul: Just me and my wife went over. Joe: Oh okay, because I was just talking to Athena from China Magic and they have a group of folks that go on a regular basis for those that are terrified to go alone. So you and your wife chose to book a flight to China and go to the Canton Fair alone. Paul: I loved it. It was really, really full out and I'm eager to go over there. Joe: Okay. Paul: I actually ended up finding my supplier on Alibaba before I went so I can't really say that the trip necessarily paid off in terms of like… Joe: Did you connect with him in person when you got to the Canton Fair? Paul: No because it was still too early and he was pretty far away from the Canton Fair. I think it helped me really see kind of like the culture of China and doing business with China and I think just a little savvier about how things work. So it was a great education for that and just like a lot of fun to check it out; I mean the place is just massive, like multiple football fields. Anything you want to ever source it would be out there so it was a super interesting spot. But anyway back to your second question so yes I stumbled upon this other product and started kind of the wheels turning in 2016 to source it. I got it on I think in the fall of 2016 and I remember that Q4 for Amazon or e-commerce is like the prime time and I remember just refreshing that seller app that Black Friday, Cyber Monday, like all through up until Christmas and it was just mind-blowing the sales that were coming in off this new product. Joe: What was it like your first day that you got a sale, how many sales did you have all together; do you remember? Paul: Oh I mean it started slow. The first thing was probably just two or three units. I mean it's really; it was in such a momentum game like when you have no momentum it's hard to keep momentum and then once you get this momentum going and the wheels start spinning it can blow your mind like the amount of sales that… Joe: And that actually blew our mind within the first month or in that first quarter like what did you wind up with on the biggest day within a couple of months of launching it in the Q4 of ‘16? Paul: I don't want to say maybe like $8,000 of sales there. Joe: Oh, wow. Paul: Something big like and then when you look at the profits from that it's like wow I made more money like on this one day than; and I had a pretty decent corporate job, I'm like this is crazy like the potential. So the hooks kind of got in me right there and then '16 was kind of just getting off the ground and then the next year is when the ball really started to roll. Joe: When you started to get revenue in the fourth quarter of 2016 and sales started to come in you had euphoria with the fact that you were getting that kind of revenue and making more money in one day than you made perhaps in a month in the corporate world but did you also have the fear of oh my God I'm going to run out of inventory? Paul: I did. Joe: Okay. Paul: Yeah, inventory is like not something glamorous to talk about and you don't really hear about it that much in podcasts or anything else but it's like running a physical products company doing an Amazon business like the inventory planning is so difficult because your sales can change on a dime. inaudible[00:15:20.7] your supplier 30 days early to make something and another 30 days to put them on a ship to get it over here. So you've got these difficult variables to manage that can leave you stocked out or even a little bit too much stuck so that's always a tough thing to manage. Joe: Awesome. I don't think I've ever met an Amazon seller or an e-commerce business person that's been growing rapidly that's not run out of inventory at one point or another. All right, so you started with $5,000, did a test, failed, how long between the first failed test and the second product that took off; how many months was it? Paul: That was about three months I think. Joe: Okay, and all the time you kept your day job which is fantastic. So you've got some revenue, you've got some money in the account that's transferred to your business account, at what point did you order more inventory with and did you just use that money or did you sit down and talk as a family and say okay this is a winner we need to take a home equity line of credit; how did you fund the rest of the inventory purchases? Paul: It was all really funded with profits. Joe: It was? Okay. Paul: Yeah, it was. Joe: And you didn't have to take any money out for living expenses because you had your day job so that's perfect. Paul: Yeah. If I wouldn't have my day job it would have made it much more difficult but luckily I had some steady income coming in on the day job and then I was able to just take the profits and reinvest them back in and just go from there. Joe: Fast forwarding you had an amazing 2017, an amazing 2018; strong year over year growth, like huge year over year growth. For those listening, Paul's business was listed again spring of 2019 and it's those perfect situation folks where we talk about the four pillars of a sellable business and that invisible fifth one which is the person behind the business and that's Paul. We have a 30-month-old Amazon business with an incredible brand that's growing rapidly year over year. The financials we're set up impeccably. Paul is a CPA but he did something incredible which was what? You outsourced the books to an e-commerce bookkeeper; brilliant by the way. So those of you that are out there saying oh I can do this I'm not going to pay a few hundred bucks to a bookkeeper we've got a CPA here that chose to outsource to an e-commerce bookkeeper because he can do better things than bookkeeping with his time like grow a multi-million dollar Amazon brand which is exactly what you did. Your business checks so many boxes. It was SBA eligible. You were the owner behind the business. You built trust. People believed in you. During the recorded video interview, you're the first person; and I keep asking people to do it now, you're the first person that ever sat in front of the camera, reached down picked up the product and demonstrated the product. You showed the new packaging that you had just done. It was beautiful and the end result was an overwhelming request to buy the business, conference calls where you had to clear your schedule for a week. I said Paul cancel everything, right? We had to clear it and we ended up with I think three calls with qualified buyers every day for five days. We wound up with 10 total offers. I think we were at; the top one was something like $150,000 over asking price. Paul: Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah. Joe: Yeah, and we say this all the time that it's not always the offer that comes in with the highest number, it's the right fit more than anything else. We had; of the 10 offers, I think we had maybe six that were SBA and four that were cash. You ended up choosing a cash buyer and not just because it was a cash buyer but also the person behind the business. We did video interviews between the buyer and seller. How much did that matter and how much of a difference did that make for you? Paul: The interviews mattered a ton. I mean that was the deciding factor because when I went into the process I just thought like well it's pretty simple, right? You take the highest number and the highest bidder wins but as you get into it and talk to different people it's like a huge diverse set of backgrounds that people are coming through Quiet Light looking to buy, right? Joe: Right. Paul: And some people I felt like wow I could just hand this to them and they could run with it immediately and do like as good or better a job with this than I ever could. And others are like hey I really like this person and their heart is in the right place but I feel like the transition might take a little bit longer and then what if somewhere they dropped the ball and things get sideways like I don't want that somehow to come back to me. I don't know if that's a rational way to think about it but if there was a lot of comfort like feeling this guy or these guys I feel like really got it, they get it, they know what to do, they will hit the ground running from day one so to me that mattered a whole lot. Joe: Yeah. And I think given the fact that we're in this remote world where your buyers and sellers are all over the world literally sometimes doing a video conference call for that initial call breaks the ice. You're not reading the client interview anymore, you're not just talking to somebody on the phone; you can see the whites of their eyes and anybody that wants to see Paul we're recording this both on Zoom with video and audio and it will be up on the YouTube page as well. He does not look like a buttoned-up CPA today and I was making fun of him when we first got on the call. You've always looked like that but today you know what you're a successful exitpreneur. You got the sweatshirt on, a little stubble, working from home; I love it. All right so I want to you ask a couple of things just for the audience purposes. Number one back to running the business what was the toughest challenge in running the business? Let's start with that. Go ahead. Paul: Yeah. I'd say even at the start this isn't even a tactical thing but the hardest thing was just getting the momentum going. Starting an Amazon business is not like hey I'm trying to create an electric car and beat Elon Musk but even me like I had a lot of doubts at the start like is this is going to work, am I going to lose all my money? All of these doubts kind of creep into your head so I remember really kind of struggling to pull the trigger in a way thinking like I just don't know is this supposed to be my pathway? So I think that was really hard to overcome and you just kind of keep going one foot in front of the other and once you get a little momentum it just like brings all this energy and life into you that you just feel so energized to just keep improving and add products and make your products better and make the packaging better. Getting that first momentum can feel elusive and challenging so I think that was like a big thing at the start. Joe: And you failed and then you stuck with it and then you succeeded. Paul: Yeah. And I was kind of at an inflection point like should I keep going or is this just not meant to be and then you know. Joe: This may be a dumb question but are you glad you kept going? Paul: I'm very glad. It changed my life that I kept going. I mean I'd still be sitting at a desk in corporate America right now I hadn't kept going and like we've got a three-year-old son at home like the physical time we will spend with him and then mentally my head is so much like the stress is away from me. So I was always stressed working in corporate America so it's been the biggest blessing ever to go out and do this. It's changed my whole family's life. Joe: Okay. So let me ask the question that all buyers ask, why did you sell the business? Paul: Yeah, it was a tough decision to sell because I was having so much fun running it. And I think the honest answer is the value of the business became such that it really could provide a lot of security for our family. And it felt like if I was 23 and single and didn't have kids I'll like alright instead of going for this I might have just keep on going and try to sell it for three times this or five times this or just keep going. But knowing Amazon can be volatile and like I had all my eggs in that basket so it just felt like the responsible thing is to take some chips off the table and let go of the business but it was really hard. Joe: The responsible thing; I like that, the responsible thing. Your CPA background is coming out now. That's good. Paul: Yeah. Joe: All right so what was the toughest part about going through the sales process and selling the business; what was the hardest part there? Paul: Picking a buyer was really tough. Joe: It's a good problem. That's a good problem to have. Paul: I mean just even knowing how to approach it and you really helped a ton Joe in that process. When it's your first time through and you already have kind of these emotions like you built this thing and now it's worth something that people want it, it's a weird feeling and like how to value it and how to find the right fit and thinking about SBA versus cash; there's just a lot of things that are spinning through your head at that time so I think just getting a clear head and trying to identify what the right fit was the toughest part. Joe: Okay. I think you again exception rather than really had 10 offers, I think maybe one or two might have come in slightly under asking price but the vast majority was above. I think 2019 the average offers that we had on any single listening was two and a half so you are five times that amount which is pretty exceptional. That goes to the brand that you built. It goes to the way that you set the business up with its own entity. You didn't come and go books. You're a CPA but you hired a professional bookkeeper. You instilled so much confidence in buyers. They clearly came out of the woodworks to buy your business. All right, the toughest part was choosing the buyer; that's amazing. It's not what I would've guessed you would have said. Sometimes it's due diligence but with you, it was choosing a buyer. All right so now there's life after the sale, you were in the corporate world working 40, 50 hours a week or sometimes more in tax season and then you're an entrepreneur working from home spending time with your son now what are you doing? You've sold the business nine months ago, what are you doing with your time? Paul: Yeah so it's been nice to have a little; in life usually you're just like chasing after the next thing and I've had just the time to step back and think really what I want to do and what I want my life to look like so it's been like a real luxury. So I'm going into; I'm building a website, it's called WealthFam.com. Joe: Fam like family? Okay. Paul: Yup like family. It's brand new but basically it sort of like combines my background and what I like to do. So it's all about building wealth; becoming financially independent, starting and running online businesses. Basically, it's how to be smarter with your money and use the money to help kind of enable the life that you want to live whether it's being with your kids or going on trips or whatever else. So it's a content site which is a super interesting thing. I thought a lot about going back and doing another Amazon business but I just didn't feel the same spark for like starting it and it takes a lot of energy and mental fortitude to take something from A to Z and you've got to really want it kind of every step of the way. So this just kind of really energized me and there's been some great stories like Ramon's story; you featured Ramon. It like blew my mind the… Joe: His content site, yeah. Paul: And that happened in the content space so that was really exciting to me. And on top of that I just like doing this stuff so it feels like the right sort of fit. Joe: So what kind of subjects are you going to cover on Wealth Fam? Paul: So it's broken down a couple of categories like making money, saving money, investing money, financial independence, and then some stuff like how money intersects with having a kid and being married or buying a house. So I'm trying to make it like a modern personal finance site that people in their teens, 20s, 30s, can find well like at least from my experience like education society; like our schools and in general, there's not a lot of like real training about… Joe: There's none of it. There's none of it, yeah. Paul: And there's even a lesson mode like starting an online business and like the potential kind of betting on yourself. Joe: It seems like a great idea because you're taking your educational experience along with your entrepreneurial experience and marrying them together with a content site which is great. I love content sites. We work with SaaS, content, and FBA and content is just fantastic. Scott Voelker is really, really focused on helping people go beyond FBA and build content sites and some of them have great success and its driving more traffic back to FBA and getting their business products sold. For those that aren't familiar with content site monetization, how do you plan to monetize the site? Paul: So there's a couple of traditional ways that people will do it. So, first of all, you have to have traffic. I mean if I have traffic inaudible[00:28:43.3] selling eyeballs like it's tough to; getting traffic is really hard and you're playing like this SEO game and it takes a long time to rank in Google. Then there's a couple of primary ways, the first is affiliate links like you could be selling a course or selling something on Amazon or selling; the Amazon FBA thing is a really interesting thing for Amazon sellers to marry their inaudible[00:29:04.9] business with content. I love that idea. I think that's really smart. There's brand sponsorships, other partnerships; but it's like advertising and affiliate income are kind of the two main plays for monetizing. Joe: I got you, okay. All right how's life at home; what do you do with your time? I mean you've you don't have a job. You're starting a content site which might take a little bit of your time. You've got a baby. Paul: It takes a lot of time. Joe: It takes a lot; the startup phase is always the hardest, isn't it? Paul: Inaudible[00:29:38.4] the thing I underestimated about content is that like writing is really hard. Joe: Yeah. Paul: I think oh I can write something about Amazon, that's easy, I know this. It takes a lot of time to really do a good job at clarifying your thoughts but overall I'm just trying to optimize my life for happiness and contentment and I get that right now being with my son and my wife. So I spend a lot of time with my family. We do a lot of cool stuff together. And I'm really liking; I do some Amazon consulting because I'm still at the Amazon blog and I like to be involved in it so I'm doing some of that for some local companies which I love doing.   Joe: Good. Paul: And then this content thing really is exciting and fun and I'm going to see where it can go and… Joe: So you didn't make enough on the sale of your business to never work again but enough to give you a pretty long runway and you're enjoying your expertise in the Amazon space and doing some consulting while you're building up another content or a content business? Paul: Yeah that's a fair way to… Joe: Does that sum it up? Paul: Yeah and I'd like to go up those kind of shift too, right? I'm not sure how in-tune you are with the financial independence world, all the people that want to retire early and be financially… Joe: Oh yeah, fire. Paul: So like if your burn rate or you can live on 40 grand a year once you stacked up a million bucks, in theory, you can quote-unquote retire. Joe: Sure. Paul: But as you think about education and college and healthcare and all these other things that number maybe gets a little bit… Joe: It gets blown out of the water. I have an 18-year-old and we're 14 days away from knowing what he's getting into which is schools and I'm rooting for the in-state schools; I'm not going to lie to you, I'm rooting for the in-state. Paul: Hey, I went to an in-state school and… Joe: Look at how it turned out; pretty damn good. Paul: Yeah. Joe: All right cool. Well, listen Paul I always tell the story about you and your brand and the fact that that fifth pillar makes a huge difference. It's the person behind the business that builds a great business with the next owner in mind. You kind of did that, I don't know if you did it intentionally or not but you said I'm going to build a great business. I want to put it all in a package that's going to help the new owner of the business do amazing things with it. And Matt the new owner of the business as you know is doing amazing things with it. And it pays off when you think about others exactly what you did that paid off for you, it paid off for your family, and now hopefully through Wealth Fam, it's going to pay off for a lot of other visitors to your website as well so people can start young and start smart and get on the right path financially. So listen man thanks for your time. I appreciate the business that you've built because it allows me to tell a story of how the person behind the business makes a tremendous difference so thank you and I appreciate you coming on the podcast today. Paul: You got it. Anytime. Thanks a lot, Joe. Links and Resources: Paul's Website Jungle Scout Helium 10

Tara Kenning:  "Teamwork makes the dream work," John C. Maxwell. I'm Tara Jaraysi Kenning and I'm a Tri-Cities Influencer. Paul:  Most people fail because of broken focus. Broken focus is one of those things that actually hurt us, so complete your tasks before you move on to another one. The ancient proverb is if you chase two rabbits, you'll catch neither Speaker 3: Raising the water level of leadership and the Tri-Cities at Eastern Washington. It's a Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. Welcome to the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast where Paul Casey interviews the local leaders like CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so that we can all benefit from their experiences. Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success. Paul: Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Renee Adams. She is the executive director of the arts center task force, and she's the director of programs and outreach for the Mid-Columbia Ballet. And a fun fact about Renee is she said she has this coffee cup with a picture of a cactus on it that says, "Can't touch this." Tell me about that. Renee: Hey Paul. It's really great to be here. Okay, so the story of the coffee mug. On good mornings when I wake up and open the cupboard and pull out the coffee cup, it sometimes says, "Can't touch this," and I get out my little MC Hammer moves and I do my little dance in the kitchen before getting my coffee and you know that's going to be a good day. Paul: Before we begin, let's check in with our Tri-City Influencers sponsors. Neal Taylor:  Hello, my name is Neil Taylor. I am the managing attorney for Gravis Law's commercial transactions team. The CTT team helps business owners, investors, and entrepreneurs accelerate and protect their business value. Today we're talking about employment law and alcohol and cannabis licensing. Josh Bam and Derek Johnson are both here with me now to describe those practice areas. Take it Derrick. Derrick:   Thanks Neal. I'm Derek Johnson, partner at Gravis Law. We find that many employers in Washington state simply don't have handbooks, employee policies or any other written materials to protect themselves and their employees. Without having these types of policies in place, an employer can run into trouble by firing employees even if the employee isn't properly performing or causing issues at work. Even if an employer fires someone for performance issues, for example, but fails to take the proper steps, they may run into trouble by inadvertently exposing themselves to a wrongful termination suit. We build strong, predictable and protective employee policies to protect our client's business. Josh:   That's true. Thanks Derek. And having employment policies in place when you're dealing with cannabis or alcohol licensing is especially important. We know that clean employment policy, clean corporate structure, and having an attorney that can work with the Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board is critically important to protecting your business through licensing. The attorneys at Gravis Law have this experience. Visit us today, www.gravislaw.com. Paul:  Thank you for your supportive leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Well, welcome Renee. I was privileged to meet you last year. Leadership Tri-Cities Class of '24 at the retreat. Renee:  I think I'm supposed to say the best class ever here, yeah best class ever. Paul: All right, you can get away with that here. And you came strutting in with a smile on your face. And I'm like, I like this gal already. And you ended up getting elected president of your class. Renee:  I did. Paul:  So way to go for that. Renee: Thank you, it was a great experience. Paul:  So our Tri-City Influencers can get to know you. Take us through your past positions that led up to what you're doing now. Renee:  Yeah, well I've had a lot of different experiences in my career. I grew up as a ballet dancer and so I spent the majority of my teen years training in pre-professional ballet and I got my first job as a dancer right out of high school in Seattle with a company called Spectrum Dance Theater. And I was one of their apprentice dancers. And so I spent 12 years as a professional dancer. Primarily, I performed with contemporary dance companies in Seattle, Portland, and Chicago. And some time while I was in Portland, I realized I had an interest not just in teaching, but also in the administrative component of building outreach programs that go out into schools, community centers, and bring dance to people, one-on-one. And so those were the types of programs that I did when I wasn't on stage or in the studio. Renee:   And by the time I left Chicago, which was in about 2013, I had amassed a good experience as education specialist, education director, outreach coordinator type positions for dance companies. I made the connection with the ballet company here in Tri-Cities, Mid-Columbia Ballet actually through a friend in Chicago. And they said, "We have this company in Washington that is looking for help, and so give them a call." So I did, I called up Deborah and Joel Rogo and they hired me as their assistant artistic director. Renee:  And there was some moving around, but I eventually landed here in that position of director of programs and outreach. And then through that position, I realized I really had an interest and skill in the administrative component of arts organizations. And not just dance, but looking at how the arts as a whole benefits our community and thinking about how as an administrator of the arts, I can have a really great impact on individuals in the community through the arts, Paul:  Which not everyone in the arts or in ballet has that same wiring like you do. Renee:  Right. No, actually it's true that it's a special ... I think it's a special thing to have that. Paul:  Who are some influencers along the way in that journey that maybe were mentors to you or you picked up leadership tidbits from? Renee:  Yeah, so I think that in the beginning of my artistic journey was my ballet teacher, as most dancers would tell you, and her name was Phyllis Sear. By the time I met Phyllis, she was in her mid-80s. She was still a young-hearted woman even as she aged. And she really taught me a lot about life skills and the value of humility, the value of having grit and tenacity and following through and being patient and compassionate. And those were things that we talked about a lot in the context of performing and teaching, but they turned out to be very relevant as an administrator and as a leader. Renee:  So I've really valued those lessons. And then, as I danced through my career, I was always enamored by the company managers that I worked with. And watching them run all of the behind the scenes thing and calling the production manager and getting the tech crew there and making sure that we had funding for all of the employees to get their paycheck in time and just really watching them and listening to the tidbits of gold that they dropped. Paul: Fantastic. So when you got into these two positions, what was your original vision and then how has that morphed along your leadership journey? Renee:  That's a great question. And it's a little bit complicated because they are two different organizations that each have their own type of vision. But I think if I could summarize in both positions, my vision was sort of small. It was, what can I do with the resources I have right now to make a difference today? And maybe that was by taking an outreach program out to a senior living facility or by attending a board meeting, but over time, and I've been with Art Center Task Force as their executive director for a year, and over the course of that year, I've realized the vision is much broader and it's actually in the arts, it's about how do we bring people into our shared vision? How do we get them on the boat and show them that their vision aligns with ours? And I think the vision is more of, how do we show our community the value of the arts in their everyday lives? Paul:   Love that. So inspire a shared vision, one of the five principles- Renee: That's right. Paul:  That we learned in leadership Tri-Cities. Renee:  I learned something, Paul. Paul: You did, you did. Why is it so important to share that vision? Because you could just keep that vision, it could bubble you up every day and it's fantastic to keep you motivated, but why does it have to be a shared vision? Renee:  Well, I think that especially in the arts, nothing happens without collaboration. I think that's probably true in many industries. But as artists, we are very, very passionate and we tend to believe that our way is usually the right way. And without that element of collaboration and being able to see how our way can align with those next to us, that we all have the same kind of goals, then we really just fall into fighting and chaos. And that's something that I noticed about the Tri-Cities arts community as soon as I got here. That is not the case. This is the Tri-Cities arts community is one that its core value is collaboration, and so it was really easy to slide into that. Paul:  Are you the only staff in those roles? Is it all volunteer-based? Tell us a little bit about how you evangelize arts? Renee: Yeah. At Mid-Columbia Ballet, there are a variety of staff members. There are three key staff members, the artistic director, the company manager and myself, director of programs and outreach. And so we coordinate a lot of the day-to-day activities, each in our own sort of departments I guess. And then there are some other staff members that come on and do project-type activities. So one staff member runs our include program, which serves people with special needs and so on and so forth. So there's a lot of staff support at Mid-Columbia Ballet. There's also a lot of volunteer support there for things like the Nutcracker, which most people in the community have probably been to. What they might not realize is the Nutcracker takes about 100 volunteers every night to run the backstage components. And so certainly we can't have a staff of 100 volunteers, that would break the budget and we would not be able to share the art at art. Renee: At Art Center Task Force, it's a much different situation with a lot different mission. And so I am the only staff member. I am the first staff member of the organization. And this is an organization that was incorporated in the mid-90s, and since then it has been run on the passion and tenacity of volunteers in the community. So it is so inspiring to go to work and see that there's all these volunteers who've put in all these hours before me and be able to follow in those footsteps. Paul:  Well, what are you most passionate about? You've used the word inspire a few times already, so what are you most passionate about in these organizations right now and why? Rene: I'm really excited and passionate about the idea of finding connections between people. And a friend of mine actually at the ballet the company administrator said when I first started working on coordinating events and thinking about these bigger visions that my job was kind of like putting together the pieces of a puzzle. You me throw the puzzle out and all the pieces are there. And to be able to find the connection between two or three or four puzzle pieces that makes the whole picture, that's really exciting. That's the thing that makes me do my MC Hammer dance a little more actively in the morning. I love to see those connections. And not just with people in the arts community, I love to see how people in the sports community, in our city government, in business leadership positions throughout the community have those connections to the arts, those personal emotional connections. Paul: So you must have some type of networking strategy to make those connections. How do you prioritize your time or these people and influencers in town? Renee:  I wish I could tell you I had a perfect template for my networking strategy, but I don't. But one of the things that I realized early on is how important it is to keep on my calendar time to do my work, whether that is administrative work or phone calls or networking opportunities. And so, I just try to look at my calendar each week as a balanced meal and then each month as a balanced meal to make sure that I'm talking to the right people, to go through my database or my email list and see who is it that I haven't touched base within a while? And try to spread it out that way. Paul: Awesome. So talk to me about building a team and creating a culture. So you've got some staff in the ballet, you also have lots of volunteers and whether our listeners are a nonprofit or for-profit organizations, what do you look for when you're trying to bring someone on board, make sure they're on the right seat on the bus, the values you're trying to instill, all that? Renee:  The single biggest quality that we look for in volunteers or staff members is are you a team player? Because we really appreciate people who offer opposite views or who offer different views. And so we're not necessarily looking for somebody who just agrees with all of our pragmatic choices, but we're looking for people who can sit around the table and also be that team. The other thing we're generally looking for is people who have follow-through. And so whether that's a staff or a volunteer member, especially for volunteers, it's hard to not over commit yourself. And so- Paul:  What? Renee:  What I've realized as a leader in this position that I am starting to get a sense of volunteers who really have so much passion, but maybe they're a little over-committed and how can I get them involved and how can I keep them in the family, so to speak, of the arts community and help them feel successful as well as get what we need from the project? Paul: I really liked that. I read a book last year called The New Breed of Volunteers, and it's talking about both the eldest generation and also the youngest generation that want to volunteer and how it's really a new breed nowadays that they want to do it on their time, they want to do it in nuggets, they don't want long-term commitments. And we have to, as leaders, maybe meld our volunteer opportunities to fit. So like you said, they can all be included. And I think that's a great way to do so. I love that team player is number one. And you mentioned about diversity of thought, so sometimes diversity of thought can be divisive, other times it can be a real asset. How do you see the difference when it becomes an asset? Renee:  Yeah, I think that the diversity of thought that's an asset is the one that can listen and not just hear what you're saying and respond, but really slow down and listen and absorb the other point of view. Because they still may have a dissenting view or a disagreeing view, but a lot of times we find that those individuals who maybe aren't ready to be a team player in our setting, they're just not quite ready to listen to whatever the opportunity is. Paul:  Yeah. They might have a little personal agenda that they are ... Or they're entrenched there and they're not doing the old Stephen Covey-ism, "Seek first to understand then be understood," which I still love that one. Let's stay on that topic of personnel, how do you keep them inspired and affirmed? Because volunteers could walk away tomorrow, so how do you keep them pumped up? Renee:  Paul, I have to say that I learned a lot from you in our leadership sessions during Leadership Tri-Cities. And one of the things that I really took from me in those sessions was this idea of small wins. And I've been trying it out in small doses throughout the year. And this is something that in our industry, in the arts, things rarely move quickly. Nonprofits rarely move quickly. And so there's a lot of waiting around, even when you're in the middle of the production and the show has to happen, there's still a lot of waiting around. Things just don't move quickly sometimes. And so, it's easy for people to get frustrated and to feel that pull of impatience. And I've been doing my best to find these moments of small wins and celebrate, whether it's send an email to the board and say, "We have this great connection. Please give me any feedback or let me know if you have a connection to this connection." Renee: And the other way we try to celebrate small wins is through a lot of gratitude. Thank you so much to this person for this activity, et cetera. And yeah, that small wins thing is really valuable for us. Paul: I was listening to another podcast the other day that says, "Make sure that it's clear what a win actually is in your organization because what you might as the leader think a win is and what your people think is win might be totally different things. So give them this view of what a win actually is or what done looks like when you delegate something to people so that they really get it." So let's turn to you a little bit. No one wants to get stale in leadership, so how do you stay relevant and on the cutting edge yourself? And then how does that build innovation for your organization? Renee: I thought a lot about this question and I realized the reason it was hard for me to process and answer was that it's changed a lot for me personally. As my career has changed from specific arts programming in the field of dance to a broader perspective of arts administration, that thing of not being stale has changed. And what I realize it is now is looking more globally and maybe that is for example here the state of Washington, at leaders who are doing similar things as us in this community and literally calling them up and saying, "Hi, my name is Renee and I'm from the Tri-Cities and we're working on this idea here," whether it's a joint fundraiser or an art center or a unique program, "I'd like to pick your brain a little bit." And that is very inspiring for me, because there are not a lot of other arts staff leaders in this community. The ones that there are, are amazing and we have a great network with each other, but it's so wonderful to be able to reach out to other people in other communities and find parallels. Paul:  Yeah, I just got back from the National Speakers Association conference and it's sort the same thing. If you don't have a lot of people doing exactly what you do around you, you've got to go find them and strike up those conversations and it just pumps you up because they really get what you do and they've got also some ideas, because they're a little further down the road than you in some ways and who knows? Maybe you've got some wisdom to share with them. Renee:  Right. Paul:  Well, before we get to our next question to ask Renee what makes a good day for her, let's give a shout out to our sponsors. Paul:  Jason Hoke, American Family Insurance. Jason, what is the biggest pushback you get about life insurance? Jason Hoke:  Hey Paul. One of the biggest push backs I get from life insurance is from folks that are single. They usually ask me, "Why do I even need this? I don't have kids, I don't have any dependents or a spouse, why do I need this?" Ultimately, whenever you pass on, there's going to be somebody there to pick up the pieces, there's going to be somebody to deal with your affairs and I would say it's your responsibility to make sure that there are funds, that there's money there so that person can take the time needed to go through it properly and not make it their responsibility. Paul:  Awesome, Jason, so tell us how can our listeners get in touch with you? Jason Hoke: You can swing by our office on Road 68 in Pasco, or give us a call at (509) 547-0540. Paul:  So Renee, what makes it a good day for you personally? You look back at the end of the day and you go, "Man, that was a really good day," both personally and as you just look at your workday? Renee:  I wish there was a simple way to answer this question because every day in my world looks absolutely different. I'm not sure if one day has ever looked the same. So I think I have to be a little more abstract here. For me, when I leave the 'office' which is rarely an actual office and it's rarely five o'clock, it's that feeling of yes, I communicated with all the people I needed to communicate with today. Yes, everyone feels like they got to speak their mind and share their perspective and they felt heard and I felt heard. And so it's those kind of more abstract communication-focused things that make it a good day because our journey is a long one and we have a lot of work to do to enrich our community with the arts. And so we look for that type of feeling. Paul:  So you probably use different communication methods. What are the most effective for you that you use? Renee:  Oddly enough, the most effective communication method for us is written. And we spend a lot of time writing down our ideas and writing down our thoughts, whether in emails or, for example, reports, the board that we can save in our Dropbox files. And the reason for that is because people change, board members change, volunteers change. And so to have that written communication in place of the work we've already done helps us create an archive of all of our progress. And that's really valuable. And the other thing is it's so valuable for us to be able to get in front of the community and actually talk about what we're doing, whether that's on a news clip or in podcasts or at the farmer's market or whatever it is, just getting out there and talking to people is so very important for us. And then of course the obvious one is the arts are very visual. Whether you're looking at them on a sculpture, a painting or on a stage, they are a visual thing. Paul:  So it sounds like if there are people looking for speakers for their organizations in town, you guys are game. Renee:  Absolutely. Paul: Listen for that contact information in just a few minutes. So take us behind the scenes of your life. What's your best habit, what's your worst habit? Renee:  Oh dear. Well, I have to say that my best habit is something that's a carryover from my dance career, which is just to really start every day with some physical activity. Whether that's going to the yoga studio around the corner from my house or walking my dog or maybe getting a quick jaunt weeding my garden in the morning. But what I find when I don't do those things, I get to the point where I can't focus on my day. One of my worst habits is that I tend to be a workhorse, and so sometimes that means I get stuck in the weeds. Sometimes that means even though I can see the big picture, I drill down on something too specific and I go down that windy path that's not helpful. And without a lot of other staff support around on a daily basis, sometimes it's easy to do that. And so that can be one of my worst habits, is not slowing down enough to look at the big picture consistently. Paul:  So if our listeners had that same malady and they got stuck down in the weeds and realize, we're in the bottom of a hole, what advice would you give them to pull out of that once they're self-aware enough to realize, wow, I'm way down deep? Renee:  Yeah, I'm at the bottom of the hole. My recommendation is to surround yourself with people who are not necessarily better than you, but have different skills and characteristics than you. And I really rely on the supportive committees in our organizations to bounce ideas off and, "Hey, don't let me get too far on this idea if it's a bad one." Paul:  A favorite quote that you have. Renee: Paul, I wrote this quote for you because it is my very favorite quote. It's actually a mission statement of a theater company in Chicago. It's called The Looking Glass Theater. And the quote says, "Fire the imagination with love. Celebrate the human capacity to taste and smell, weep and laugh, create and destroy. And wake up where we first fell, changed, charged and empowered". Paul:  Well it's pretty obvious why you would choose that, but what does that mean to you? Renee:  To me that means that each day is an opportunity to be creative and to welcome the day with this fiery energy that I find is really important in my work. It helps people connect to me, it helps me connect to them. And this quote reminds me that it's okay to cry and it's okay to destroy and it's okay to have these moments that aren't always beautiful, that it's about the journey. Paul: Let me follow up on that. So if someone says, "I'm not really creative," I mean you are naturally, and what would you say? How can they stoke their creativity? Is there a habit that people can do to do that better? Renee:  I love the idea of thinking about our daily lives as creativity, and how is it that we ... What are the things we find joy in that are sort of mundane, like cleaning the counter and putting away the dishes. And it's not necessarily that we do those things artistically, so to speak, but creativity is often something that's born out of routine. And so finding the joy in those routines I think often allows us to be creative. Paul: I love that. Finding the joy in the routine. How about your favorite book that you think all of our listeners should read? Renee: So I recently read a book by Brené Brown called Daring Greatly, and I'm sure many people have read that book. And I love the idea of thinking about vulnerability and thinking about ourselves as whole people, not just as people that go to work and then people who go home to our families and then people who go to the grocery store, but that all of our experiences summarize us at each moment in each day. Paul:  Daring Greatly, Brené Brown. And she wrote one recently, Dare to Lead as well that I read. How about an influencer in town that every Tri-Citian should meet? Renee:  Now, I may be biased from my arts perspective, but if you have not met Deborah and Joel Rogo who own the Tri-Cities Academy of Ballet, and Debra is the artistic director of Mid-Columbia Ballet, then you are missing out. These are really influential people, their history and their past is rich and they bring so much experience and professionalism to the community here in Tri-Cities. And we're just so grateful to have them here. Paul:  Sound like cool people. Renee:  They are very cool people. Paul: Now let's talk your legacy. If you left a letter on your desk for the leader who came after you, what would it say? Renee: So I think today that I've spent a lot of time talking about the connections and who are the people, as you said, on the bus or in the room. And for me, that letter or that legacy for future leaders is really think about who you have surrounding you. And for me, that's always about finding people to surround me that I want to look up to, that I want to emulate. They have qualities that are ... Have more experience than me, they have different experience than me. And so, to me, that's really important in any position in our life, but also as a leader, that we're looking for people who are better than us so that we can continue to grow. Paul:  Fantastic. I got to hear John Maxwell live at this conference I went to recently and he got the Influencer of the Year award from the National Speakers Association, and he has the law of the inner circle, which says, "Your success is determined by those you surround yourself with." So that really backs up what you just said. Renee:   Yes. Paul:  Finally, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone who wants to keep growing and gaining more influence? Renee:  Yeah, I wrote down the word gems in my notes, as in sparkly stones. And I don't think that the path is always obvious as we go on in our career and our lives and search for leadership opportunities. I think that we walk a path and we have a choice, the right path or the left path, and neither is wrong and we just take one and then we look for the gems along the way. And when we look at it that way, we don't get stunted by fear. We don't stop because we can't be perfect, and it's more about the journey and the exploration and the experience than it is about the perfection. Paul:  Tri-City listeners, look for the gyms along the way. So Renee, how can our listeners best connect with you? Renee:  Probably the best way to connect with me is over email at artscentertaskforce@gmail.com or through a phone call at (509) 6019-98546. Paul:  Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well. Renee:  Thanks for having me, Paul. Paul:  Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend. It is the emotional index quiz. You go over to lifecoach.com and you go into the free quizzes section and this emotional index quiz is 100 questions, takes about 20 to 30 minutes to do and it's to figure out the underlying needs that drive your behavior. This is essential for each of us to identify because there might be some changes that need to be made to get a little bit more emotionally healthy. Again, lifecoach.com, free quizzes. Paul:  And don't forget to consider patronizing our sponsors of Tri-City Influencer Gravis Law And Jason Hogue, American Family Insurance. Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence, it's a quote by former Dallas Cowboys coach, Tom Landry, "A winner never stops trying." Keep growing forward. Speaker 3:  If you enjoy this podcast or it piqued your interest in learning more about leadership and self-leadership, you can continue to glean from Paul and his growing forward services. Check out Paul's blog and the products, tips and tools on his website at www.paulcasey.org and opt into his target practice inspirational E-newsletter. You'll get his 33 top tips for becoming a time management rock star when you subscribe and consider buying one of his three books. The most recent one being Leading the Team You've Always Wanted. Paul:  This podcast has been produced by Bonsai Audio at Fuse Coworking Space.  

Coming off his controversial loss to KSI, Logan Paul attempts to revive his career with yet another episode of IMPAULSIVE... Jake Paul is a crybaby? Logan had wet dreams before the fight? Spencer got a haircut? The new Ranch is haunted? What’s next for Team Maverick? So many questions you’ll never need to know the answer to...

PAUL - You and your practice have dealt more than once with big lottery winners. You told me in the break a $5 million winner and a $1 million winner, what do you do with, with the people who have scored big windfalls all of a sudden like that? ROB - It depends on where we're at in the market cycle, but the first part there is the emotional advice because that becomes tough. You have friends coming out of the woodwork, you have cousins you haven't spoken to in forever that need cash. You want to probably pay down your debt, you want to buy some new cars, you want to just take a moment and pump the brakes a little bit. That's one thing we advise folks to do and then the most important thing is cash flow projection because sometimes they want to retire and they just want to stop working and retire. If you're younger still and you're retired, you're obviously spending significantly more than if you're working. We do a couple of things for folks in this situation but it's not just lottery winners. It could be inheritance, it could be a business sale, it would be a court settlement. PAUL – Right. You told me you had a very large one that came from a tragic story. That's the residential school settlement. One of your clients received a large sum from that process. ROB -Yes. Depending on how much experience there is in the market for that individual, you have to pump the brakes again. We used to just do them one off. Now we have a process in place. First of all, the classic risk tolerance process is: once you've figured out the asset allocation, call it a 60/40 or something similar, you can then buy the fixed income almost right away. You could also buy the alternatives almost right away. If you're buying alternatives such as real estate, infrastructure or any alternative asset class, you could buy that right away. The equities are obviously the portion you want to be legging in. We leg in, we look at some historical data and we will leg in anywhere over a 6 month to 12 month period. We have a bunch of rules that we have in place as well. PAUL - So you identify a portfolio of stocks and legging in means that you occasionally buy periodically rather than plunging it all at once? ROB – Yes! There's two factors we consider. One is time and the other is market movement. If the market is moving in a negative way, we add to the position and we set pre-established rules. We're all in a 25% correction and then on a time basis, generally we'll do kind of two, four, six or eight month leg in. Perhaps it's three, six, nine months, depending on the risk tolerance. The plan is in place ahead of time. We want to remove emotion, because it's tough to sit there with a large windfall when market's down 25% and say, I want to buy today. However, if you pre-establish those rules and if the market keeps correcting, historical data will tell you that it will work out in the client's favor. We've done the numbers and we really liked the strategy we've developed and there is way less market timing risk for the client. At the end of the day, you want to protect that capital and you want to reduce the risk for the client. What kind of frame of mind are they in? PAUL - Let's talk about lottery. They must be elated and are they spend happy? Do they have automobiles and cars they want buy tomorrow? ROB – Everyone's different obviously. If you and I won the lottery, we'd be out there probably buying something for sure. The key is the expenditures I like to look at. It needs to be a portion of the money and we talk about this with the client. There's definitely money that can be spent on yourself and that's healthy. You have to do that and you've got this windfall emotionally, you want to do that. However, going out and buying assets that are not great for your wealth picture longterm is certainly something we want to avoid. If you could buy a home, a cottage or real estate, that's okay. It will appreciate in value. You can probably sell it if you need to down the line and the ongoing cashflow is also great. If you've got five properties, you want to look at what your monthly burn is on your cash. You have to look at the details when it comes to that. What's the portfolio generating? Are you still working? If you're not, how much are we sending you and what's your burn on those new assets? PAUL - In your experience, have they taken your advice and stuck with it over time? ROB -Yes absolutely, we've had some success with our lottery winners. It's just a process of taking them through lottery windfall and to go through the details. For some folks, it's the first time they ever sit down with a portfolio manager. Right? If first time you're sitting down with a portfolio, you're being explained what a stock is, what a bond is, what a preferred share is. It can be overwhelming. We take our time, a lot of education, and we get there. cash invested within nine to 12 months.

For this week’s podcast we continue into our theme at looking at new technologies that constitute the “New Stack”. Dessa is a company that specialises in offering artificial intelligence solutions to enterprises. We had the pleasure of having Paul Brikis, insurance lead at Dessa shares his thoughts on AI & Blockchain.   What is blockchain? To define what is blockchain, or even just to conceptualist it, Paul played a little game with Walid. Paul: Let’s pretend that we’re going to assign my phone a store value and possession determines ownership. Let’s imagine there are no other phones in the room and I’m holding the phone. If I ask you, Walid, who owns the phone, what would you say. Walid: I would say you own it. Paul: Exactly there's none other ones in the room. You know it's very easy to see that ownership is mine. So, let's pretend I pass the phone over to you and let's ask the same question who owns the phone. Walid: Well technically I would say it's still you as you just passed it over. Paul:Sure, but it's in your hands like you know you feel confident that you're holding that phone. So, we can see that the transfer of physical goods is very easy to transfer ownership. But let's play the same game, but this time let's change the rules where I'm going to take a photo of my phone and say that photo is redeemable for the phone in the picture and now let's assume that I email you that photo. Do you still believe you own that phone? Walid:I may own the phone, but you may have sent the phone to somebody else. Paul:Exactly, digitally things are easily reproducible. When we are transacting digitally it's hard to create trust of ownership. This has been called by economists as the double spend problem. In that in physical goods there's no way to know it's been spent twice, but in a digital world that’s really hard. The way to combat this is to establish all forms of  intermediaries, so we trust that when we own these things that people say we own. You need a third party to validate that. Where blockchain is this revolutionary idea where suddenly we can transact with parties we don't necessarily need to trust, but have confidence that we're getting what the other party says we're supposed to be getting.   What is Dessa? Dessa’s mission is to help large enterprises scale AI. They strongly believe that AI is a transformative technology that companies are going to need a lot more of in the future. The company is made of two parts: A truly world-class AI team A team of former MBB (McKinsey, BCG, Bain) consultants who specialise in helping large enterprises identify business problems and opportunities that AI can address Dessa works in a highly regulated industries such as Telco’s, banks, investment firms, credit cards and insurance.   What is artificial intelligence (AI)? For Paul, the reason why blockchain got on the map was thanks to Bitcoin. AI got onto the map thanks to a contest in 2012 called ImageNet. ImageNet is like the Olympics of computer science challenges. In this particular challenge, computers were tasked to classify five million images. The team from the University of Toronto combined very powerful computers with a technique called deep learning and they won the competition. This event is seen as a sort of the advent of when AI became topical. All three of those team members were recruited by Google and that when they became an AI first company. Dessa has recruited Alex Krizhevsky, who developed the technology from that team, called AlexNet. AI is a broad umbrella that is composed of machine learning and deep learning.   Machine learning Machine learning is technology that essentially is improving itself and it can be used for things like predictions based on a set of data. It works in a very linear manner.   Deep learning What’s interesting about deep learning is that in comparison to machine learning,

You have heard abd read about the sickness. The Sickness is killing you. The Sickness is destroying you. We know it and feel it. That's why we are trying. First you must Believe. Say it I Believe. Say it loud. I Believe.

The State Department is known as the agency that solves conflicts with words but a closer look reveals that it’s much more connected to war than most of us think. By examining the State Department’s funding for 2018, discover the State Department’s role in regime changes past, current, and future. In this episode, you’ll also get an introduction to the National Endowment for Democracy, a scandalous organization with a noble sounding name. Mike Glaser joins Jen for the Thank You’s. View the updated Omnibus Please Support Congressional Dish - Quick Links Click here to contribute a lump sum or set up a monthly contribution via PayPal Click here to support Congressional Dish for each episode via Patreon Send Zelle payments to: Donation@congressionaldish.com Send Venmo payments to: @Jennifer-Briney Use your bank’s online bill pay function to mail contributions to: 5753 Hwy 85 North Number 4576 Crestview, FL 32536 Please make checks payable to Congressional Dish Thank you for supporting truly independent media! Additional Reading Article: It's time for a coup in Venezuela by Jose R. Cardenas, Foreign Policy, June 5, 2018. Opinion: Venezuela needs a new government after rigged election keep socialist criminal Maduro in power by Roger F. Noriega, Fox News, May 23, 2018. Opinion: Venezuela's sham election by The Editorial Board, The New York Times, May 21, 2018. Report: Trump bans purchase of Venezuelan debt in new sanctions by John Paul Rathbone, Financial Times, May 21, 2018. Article and Video: Pompeo vows U.S., Mideast allies will 'crush' Iranian operatives around the world by Carol Morello, The Washington Post, May 21, 2018. Article: Venezuaela's Maduro re-elected amid outcry over vote by Luc Cohen and Andreina Aponte, Reuters, May 20, 2018. Opinion: It's time to hasten Maduro's exit from power by Marco Rubio, CNN, May 16, 2018. Letter: 34 organizations oppose rescission of Complex Crises Fund, FCNL, May 14, 2018. Report: Egypt population surge must be met with job growth, IMF says by Ahmed Feteha, Bloomberg, May 6, 2018. Opinion: A new hope for NGOs in Egypt by Andrew Miller, The Hill, April 23, 2018. Article: John Bolton is cleaning at the National Security Council by Eliza Relman, Business Insider, April 12, 2018. Opinion: The observer view: The west's ill-founded support for Sisi and his brutal regime, The Guardian, April 2, 2018. Article: John ("Bomb Iran") Bolton, the new warmonger in the White House by Robin Wright, The New Yorker, March 23, 2018. Report: State Dept. announces $1B in weapons sales to Saudi Arabia by Ellen Mitchell, The Hill, March 22, 2018. Report: Here's how many Americans don't have access to a 401(k) plan by Emmie Martin, CNBC, March 12, 2018. Report: Egypt's IMF program: Assessing the political economy challenges by Bessma Momani, Brookings, January 30, 2018. Article: Egypt: Time to entrench growth and make it more inclusive, IMF, January 23, 2018. Report: Arab Republic of Egypt : 2017 Article IV Consultation, Second Review Under the Extended Arrangement Under the Extended Fund Facility, and Request for Modification of Performance Criteria-Press Release; Staff Report; and Statement by the Executive Director for the Arab Republic of Egypt, International Monetary Fund, January 22, 2018. Article: Beyond the Iran nuclear deal by John Bolton, WSJ, January 15, 2018. Article: Allison's goal: Keep Summit Point humming by Tim Cook, The Journal, December 11, 2017. Interview: An interview with Carl Gershman '65, President of the National Endowment for Democracy by Adrianne Owings, The Politic, November 20, 2017. Working Paper: Household wealth trends in the United States, 1962 to 2016: Has middle class wealth recovered? by Edward N. Wolff, The National Bureau of Economic Research, November 2017. Article: Millions of Americans are left out of the stock market boom by Nathaniel Meyersohn, CNN Money, October 20, 2017. Article: Egypt's Sisi meets Kushner after U.S. holds back aid by Ahmed Aboulenein, Reuters, August 23, 2017. Article/Video: Trump alarms Venezuela with talk of a 'military option' by The New York Times, August 12, 2017. Article: Why is Egypt's new NGO law controversial? by Farah Najjar, Aljazeera, May 31, 2017. Video: Construction progress on the new Foreign Affairs Security Training Center (FASTC), U.S. Department of State, April 1, 2017. Article: An actual American war criminal may become our second-ranking diplomat by Eric Alterman, The Nation, February 2, 2017. Report: National Endowment for Democracy is first 'undesirable' NGO banned in Russia by Alec Luhn, The Guardian, July 28, 2015. Article: Did State Dept. mislead Congress about findings in an OMB report? This lawmaker says so. by Colby Itkowitz, The Washington Post, May 12, 2015. Report: Two years after Benghazi, State battles lawmakers over training site for agents by Ben Kamisar, The Hill, April 12, 2015. Article: To stop Iran's bomb, bomb Iran by John R. Bolton, The New York Times, March 26, 2015. Article: Price to avoid another Benghazi? House leaders question $461 million training center by Josh Siegel, The Daily Signal, June 25, 2014. Report: CIA admits role in 1953 Iranian coup by Saeed Kamali and Richard Norton-Taylor, The Guardian, August 19, 2013. Article: Egyptian military ousts Morsi, suspends constitution by Abigail Hauslohner, William Booth, and Sharaf al-Hourani, The Washington Post, July 3, 2013. Report: McCain's rules on lobbying face test by Matthew Mosk and Jeffrey H. Bimbaum, The Washington Post, May 23, 2008. Article: Bush aims to raise whose budget? by Brendan Koerner, Slate, January 22, 2004. Article: The networks of "democratic" interference by Thierry Meyssan, Voltairenet, January 22, 2004. Article: Venezuala coup linked to Bush team by Ed Vulliamy, The Guardian, April 21, 2002. Article: Venezuela gets big I.M.F credit, backing market reforms by Paul Lewis, The New York Times, July 13, 1996. Resources Archive.org: National Endowment for Democracy: Form 990 (2002-2015) Campaign Contributions: Maurice Tempelsman Political Campaign Contributions 2016 Election Cycle Congressional Research Service: State, Foreign Operations Appropriations: A Guide to Component Accounts Energy Report: BP Statistical Review of World Energy June 2017 Friends Committee on National Legislation: The Complex Crisis Fund International Republican Institute: Board of Directors International Republican Institute: FAQs LinkedIn Profile: Alison Fortier LinkedIn Profile: Judy Black National Democratic Institute: Board of Directors National Democratic Institute: FAQs National Endowment for Democracy: History National Endowment for Democracy: William Blum Paladin Capital Group Info: Michael Steed Publication: Journal of Democracy USAid: Office of Program, Policy, and Management U.S. Department of State: Foreign Affairs Security Training Center (FASTC) U.S. Government Accountability Office: Retirement Security Reports Website: National Endowment for Democracy Sound Clip Sources Testimony: State Department Fiscal Year 2019 Budget Request, Foreign Affairs Committee, C-SPAN, May 23, 2018. 5:32 Chairman Ed Royce (CA): The National Endowment for Democracy in particular should be strongly supported. Let’s face it: democracy is on the ropes worldwide; supporting it is a moral and strategic good. NED is backing critical programming in Venezuela and Nigeria and worldwide. It is no time to cut this programming. 6:00 Chairman Ed Royce (CA): The administration has rightly provided lethal arms to Ukraine, which remains under siege by Russian proxies. 6:16 Chairman Ed Royce (CA): A far more severe threat is Moscow’s information war. This committee has heard that Moscow’s goal isn’t so much to make Western citizens think this or think that; Russia’s goal is to destroy all confidence in objective thought. By undermining fact-based discussions with lies, our enemies hope to gravely damage Western democracies. The State Department must aggressively counter disinformation through its global engagement center, other means, and with department officials speaking out for the truth. 18:05 Mike Pompeo: On Monday I unveiled a new direction for the president’s Iran strategy. We will apply unprecedented financial pressure; coordinate with our DOD colleagues on deterrents efforts; support the Iranian people, perhaps most importantly; and hold out the prospect for a new deal with Iran. It simply needs to change its behavior. 19:40 Mike Pompeo: This budget request seeks $2.2 billion to help stimulate American economic growth by expanding markets for U.S. investment and ensuring the partner countries can fully participate in the global economy. 19:55 Mike Pompeo: America’s message, a noble one, must be shared with the world at all times. Gentleman Royce, you mentioned the global engagement center. We will work with the 55-plus-million dollars available to cover both its original mission, counter extremism, plus countering state-sponsored disinformation campaigns. We will not tolerate Russian interference in our 2018 elections. Much work has been done; there’s more to do. Rest assured that we will take the appropriate countermeasures in response to the continued Russian efforts. 35:05 Mike Pompeo: First, with respect to Venezuela, we did this morning receive a formal notification that our charged affairs had been PNG’d. We will respond appropriately, certainly reciprocally, but perhaps more than that. Perhaps proportionately. We understand that there’s a second U.S. officer who will also be PNG’d. We’re well aware. We’re watching the Maduro regime continue to engage in destructive behavior for the Venezuelan people. 1:44:35 Paul Rep. Cook (CA): Foreign military sales. A number of the countries are concerned. Peru is— Mike Pompeo: Mm-hmm. Rep. Cook: —I think they’re putting in a plug for the C-130Js. Very, very interested. And so I obviously am very, very concerned. Before, in the past, we’re much more involved in that. And as I said, there’s a lot of countries, most notably China and Iran, that are involved in that. What can we do to increase foreign military sales in that region? Pompeo: I, for one, would advocate for working closely with them and encouraging them to purchase U.S. equipment that fit their country, that was the right tool set for them, for themselves and their security interests. I hope that we can, across the board, streamline the State Department’s process connected with foreign military sales. There’s work to do. Rep. Cook: And I brought up this subject before in regards to NATO. You know, Eastern Europe, they’re still reliant on the parts from Russia. Once you go with another country, you’re going to be dependent on that. So, I think we’ve got to look at that whole situation, or once they buy, they’re going to be buying there for the next five generations or something. Pompeo: Yes, sir. Rep. Cook: Thank you very much. I yield back. 1:54:17 Rep. Scott Perry (PA): And in Bosnia, I’m concerned that there’s an October election and there’s a problem with the constitution. The date and accords were never supposed to last 20 years. They have. But I’m concerned that we’re not headed in the right place there. And I just want to get your thoughts on that, if we’re going to wait to see what happens, if we’re going to take preemptive action. I would hate to see that thing burn down and then—with the United States having troops on the ground there to try and secure the peace, and also if we’re interested in pursuing putting some forces there, again, to thwart Russia, and if that’s a consideration. So, those two topics, sir. Mike Pompeo: So, let me start first with Bosnia. We’re working on the very issue you described. I can’t say a lot about it, but know that the State Department, others, Department of Defense are there. We understand the risk. We think the region’s very important. We know the—and this transitions to your second part of the question which is, we know the Russians are hard at work there destabilizing— Rep. Perry: As are the Turks, right? Pompeo: Yes. And so there are a handful, although admittedly not sufficiently sized levers currently being employed, and we’re working to develop a strategy that puts us in a better place. 1:55:35 Rep. Scott Perry (PA): Mr. Secretary, this is a picture—I’m sure you’re well aware—of an M1 tank manufactured right here in the United States, paid for by the citizens of the United States, with their taxes. That is a Hezbollah flag on it. I am concerned and have written letters regarding the Train and Equip Program in Iraq and the Shia Crescent and the land bridges they’re building across Iraq with the militias there again. Many of the Iranian people want freedom, they want peace, and the don’t agree with the regime that they’re working—living under. But I offered amendments in the NDAA to stop the funding and the Train and Equip Program. One was found in favor; one was not. So we leave it up to you. I want to make sure that you’re aware that this is happening, including militias like Kata’ib Hezbollah, listed as a terrorist organization for killing American soldiers. And if the Congress is unwilling to stop it, I hope you will be willing to stop the funding and the Train and Equip Program in Iraq and funding the Iranian militias that are willing to kill Americans and Jews and everybody across the Crescent that disagrees with them. Mike Pompeo: I’ll say this: it is the case that when we perform Train and Equip functions from time to time, equipment ends up in the hands of the wrong people. It’s a risk inherent in those operations. The question becomes, is the value we’re getting from that training, those exercises, outweigh the risk that that happens? You should know that the U.S. government works diligently to put rules and processes in place to make that picture, or pictures like that, as infrequent as possible. Rep. Perry: I don’t think the Iraqis are complying. 2:03:45 Rep. Ron DeSantis (FL): In terms of what’s going on in Venezuela, there’s a pretty significant Cuban presence of military intelligence. Is that your estimation? Mike Pompeo: I’m sorry. Could you repeat the question? Rep. DeSantis: In terms of the situation in Venezuela, propping up the Maduro regime, is part of that the Cuban military and intelligence apparatus? Pompeo: In this setting I can say there are a great deal of Cuban influence that is working alongside the Maduro regime. Rep. DeSantis: And it’s not helpful to what America wants. Pompeo: It runs adverse to U.S. interests, directly adverse to U.S. interests. 2:05:42 Rep. Ron DeSantis (FL): The Iranian people, obviously, are not happy with this regime. I mean, this is a militant, Islamic regime that’s been really imposed on relatively pro-Western populous, educated middle class. We see the protests. The president has spoken out, I think correctly. What can we do to help, because it seems like the regime cracks down on the social networks, they don’t want there to be a free flow of information, but I think it’s certainly in our interests to empower people who view this regime as illegitimate and not representative of their ideals. Mike Pompeo: It’s long been U.S. deeply held position that we will do the things we can to ensure that peoples all around the world have their human rights, their political rights, their capacity to express themselves. We shouldn’t shy away from that with respect to Iran, either. There are a number of tools that we can use, some of which I’m now responsible for their implementation; others exist other places in government. We should bring them all to bear to allow the Iranian people to be governed by the leaders that they choose. 2:59:44 Rep. Ted Lieu (CA): I’d like to ask you now about Yemen. As you know, the war in Yemen is now the world’s worst humanitarian disaster. Over 22 million people are now at risk of starvation, 8 million don’t know where their next meal will be, and every 10 minutes a child dies of preventable causes. So the U.S. is involved in Yemen in two ways. One is we are striking terrorists. Now, I don’t have a problem with that. But the other way we’re involved is we are assisting the Saudi-led military coalition. And again, I don’t have a problem with assisting our allies, but I do have a problem when that coalition is killing large numbers of civilians through airstrikes that are nowhere near military targets. And as of last September, more than 5,000 civilians have been killed, the majority from these airstrikes. In 2016 the State Department, its lawyers, have wrote a memo saying that because we’re refueling these planes, the Saudi jets, and also providing them other assistance, that U.S. personnel could be considered a co-belligerent and liable for war crimes. I know you just came on as secretary of state. Wonder if you’ve had a chance yet to read that memo. Mike Pompeo: I have not. Rep. Lieu: At your convenience. Pompeo: But I will. I will review the memo. Rep. Lieu: Thank you. I appreciate that. And if you could also make a request to your state department to see if members of Congress could also review that memo in a classified setting as well, that’d be appreciated. Pompeo: Have you—You’ve not had a—I take it you’ve not had a chance to see it. Rep. Lieu: We have not. Pompeo: Yes, sir. Rep. Lieu: So if you could make that request, that’d be great. Pompeo: I will review that, absolutely. Rep. Lieu: Thank you. So, when this conflict first started, we had all these airstrikes from Saudi-led coalition, and what it turned out is that it’s not that they were trying to hit a Houthi vehicle that was moving and they missed and struck a bunch of civilians; what ended up happening is they intentionally struck those civilian targets. So they struck hospitals, weddings, schools, markets, and last year they struck a funeral, that killed hundreds of people, twice. So they hit this funeral, and the jets went around and hit it again a second time. Very precise. That’s why the Obama administration actually stopped a shipment of precision-guided munitions because they realized actually these jets are intending to strike their targets and they were civilians. It’s my understanding that the Trump administration is now going to go forward with that sale. Just wondering why do you think anything has changed in Yemen that would authorize this sale to go forward? Mike Pompeo: So, I’m cursorily familiar with the incidents you’re describing. There are a very rigid set of rules that are thought deeply about in every national security agency that I’ve been part of—at the CIA before, now at State Department—with respect to providing munitions to organizations that are intentionally engaging in civilian targeting. We have a complex set of rules and prohibitions. We would never do that. It is this administration’s judgment that providing the precision-guided munitions actually decreases the risk to civilians. And it’s for that reason we think this actually makes sense, certainly for our allies and partners but also for citizens that are engaged in ordinary activity inside of Yemen. And if I might, this administration’s also taken serious action to do our best to reduce the humanitarian crisis that is Yemen as well. We’ve not resolved it, but we’ve made real progress. Rep. Lieu: Thank you. News Interview: Bolton: 'Our goal should be regime change in Iran', Fox News, January 1, 2018. Video: 2004 State of the Union Address , C-SPAN, January 20, 2004. Congress: Ron Paul: War with Iran has already been decided by the Financial Elite, C-SPAN, January 3, 2012. 1:40:39* Senator Rand Paul (KY): I think many people would admit that the Iran agreement had some deficiencies. One of the largest deficiencies might have been that the $100 billion was released all at once instead of maybe gradually to help modulate behavior over a longer period of time. That being said, the $100 billion that was released was a great inducement to get Iran to sign the agreement. That was a carrot, and that carrot’s gone. They’ve gotten the good thing, and now we want compliance, and now we’re pulling out. And so the question is, what are the next inducements to get them to sign things, or will there not be? I think there’s a question with—there are two possibilities, basically, of what will happen. So you reintroduce the strongest sanctions ever. They either don’t work—that’s one possibility—because they’re unilateral, and some say unilateral sanctions won’t work. Let’s say they don’t work. That means Europe, China, and Russia continue to trade with them, and Iran says, “Well, they’re going to continue to trade with us. We’ll just keep abiding by the agreement.” They don’t develop any more nuclear weapons or technology towards that, but they don’t do anything else that you would like—ballistic missiles, less terrorism. So, really, basically, we don’t get what we want if the sanctions don’t work. Second possibility. Let’s say the sanctions do work. We have enough manipulation of money that flows through us from Europe. Europe does a lot of trade with us. Europe buckles. I think Russia and China still will trade with them, but let’s say Europe buckles. And let’s say it works, and it puts enough pressure on Iran, then there are two possibilities of what Iran does. The first possibility is they say, “Oh, Secretary Pompeo. We love Secretary Pompeo’s 12-point strategy, and we’re going to accept that.” I think that’s unlikely. The second possibility, if the sanctions work and they put enough pressure on them—Iran feels the pressure—is that they restart their nuclear centrifuge program. So those are two possibilities. But what I’d like to do is go through the 12 steps that you’d like Iran to do and sort of explore what these would mean if we thought about them in terms of bigger than Iran. So one of your first things is—and this came up during JCPOA, but nobody really could really get this done—you want Iran to reveal the military dimensions of its nuclear program. Well, let’s substitute Israel for Iran there. Does anybody think Israel’s going to reveal the military dimensions of their nuclear program? Well, you’ll say, “Well, they’re our friend.” Well, yeah, but from Iran’s perspective they see Israel as a rival and a regional rival. Let’s put Saudi Arabia in there. Well, Saudi Arabia revealed the military dimensions of its nuclear program. Well, some might say, “Mm, they don’t really have it.” But I’m guessing there are files over at the CIA that say, “Well, you know what? They have talked to people about purchasing it. Some say they have purchased nuclear technology.” I can guarantee we know that, and you probably can’t admit it, but let’s put Saudi Arabia in there. Are they willing to discuss anything they have done to develop nuclear weapons? So really what you’re asking for is something that they are never going to agree to. Okay? You can try to crip them. It’s sort of like unconditional surrender. You’re not getting that. Let’s move on. Proliferation of ballistic missiles. I don’t like them threatening surrounding countries or us with ballistic missiles. Nobody does. But they respond not just to us; they respond to Saudi Arabia. There’s a 1,000-year-old war over there. There’s a 1,000-year-old religious war over there, and there’s hostility between the two. So when we supply weapons and the Saudis buy ballistic missiles—the Saudis have a ballistic program—they respond to that. The Saudis and their allies, the Gulf sheikhdom, spend eight times more than Iran. So when you tell Iran, “Oh, well, you have to give up your ballistic-missile program,” but you don’t say anything to the Saudis, you think they’re ever going to sign that? They would have to be crippled and starving people in the streets for them ever to agree to give up their ballistic-missile program. Had we kept the Iran agreement with them and you said to the Iranians, “Well, we want less of an arms race over there. We’d like to have peace with Saudi Arabia. Could we get Saudi Arabia to the table, with Iran, to discuss either a freeze of ballistic missiles—” you know, when we went to Russia, we didn’t just succumb and say we’d give up our weapons. Neither did Russia. We did it in parity. We had an agreement. If you leave Saudi Arabia out of it and you leave Israel out of it and you look at Iran in isolation, that’s not the way they perceive it. So, don’t think they’re going to jump at your 12 notions here of what you’d like them to do. Mike Pompeo: Senator, may I make this one point? Paul: Go ahead. Pompeo: I think the example of Saudi Arabia’s a reasonable one. We have told the Saudis exactly what I asked from the Iranians. Paul: To talk about their nuclear program? Pompeo: They have said they want a peaceful nuclear-energy program, and we have told them we want a gold-standard, Section 123 agreement from them, which would not permit them to enrich. That is simply all I’ve asked of Iran as well. Paul: Do we have information that the Saudis have talked to actors in Pakistan and other places about purchasing nuclear technology? Pompeo: Sir, I can’t answer that here this morning. Paul: Which is to say we, in all likelihood, do have that information. And so the thing is it’s a one-way playing field. Unless we understand that there are two big players over there—really, three big players: you got Iran, you got Israel, and you got Saudi Arabia—we want Iran to do things we’re not willing to ask anybody else to do and that we would never do. So— Pompeo: Senator, I disagree with you. I think we ask most nations to do precisely what we’re asking Iran to do. Paul: Let’s move on to another one of your 12 points and the military support for the Houthi rebels. Well, once again, you’re asking them to end it, but you’re not asking the Saudis to end their bombardment of Yemen. I mean, if you look at the humanitarian disaster that is Yemen, it is squarely on the shoulders of the Saudis. And so we’re going to ask the Iranians to quit supplying—they, in all likelihood, are the ones supplying the missiles—and we get reports, and the Defense Department comes and says, “There’ve been 32 missiles strikes in Saudi Arabia.” Well, there’s been, like, 16,000 bombings of Yemen by Saudi Arabia. Nobody even mentions that. We act as if it didn’t even happen. If we are so ignorant that there’re two sides to this war, we’re never getting anywhere. Iran’s not going to stop doing that, but they might if you sat them down with the Saudi Arabians, said, “This arms race doesn’t make sense,” and Saudi Arabia’s willing to sit down at the table. You know, is Saudi Arabia willing to stop, another one’s withdrawal all forces under Iran’s command throughout the entirety of Syria? There were dozens of groups in there, even ISIS, that were getting weapons from Qatar and Saudi Arabia. In fact, one of the leaked emails from WikiLeaks was from Clinton to Podesta, saying, “My goodness. We’ve got to stop Saudi Arabia and Qatar from funding ISIS.” That’s a direct email. They were acknowledging they knew about it, and they were acknowledging it was a problem, but weapons were flowing in to all kinds of radicals in there. So if you want Iran to stop—and I mean, Saudi Arabia and Qatar are 10 times the problem, you know? The whole Syrian war has all of these radical jihadists. The people who attacked us came from Saudi Arabia. We ignore all that, and we lavish them with more bombs. So, really, until we acknowledge there are two sides to the war—or three sides to the war in the Middle East—you’re not going to get the agreement. I think it was naïve to pull out of the Iran agreement, and I think in the end, we’ll be worse off for it. United Nations Address: Jon Bolton U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., June 18, 2006. Cover Art Design by Only Child Imaginations Music Presented in This Episode Intro & Exit: Tired of Being Lied To by David Ippolito (found on Music Alley by mevio)  

  What conversations can we have in email? When do we need to transition them into meetings? How can we make meetings more productive, and less of a waste of time?  Like Startups, Most Meetings Fail: This week Paul Ford and Rich Ziade chat about the inefficiency of frequent meetings. We discuss what makes a meeting fail within the first few minutes, and provide strategies that can be deployed to make them successful (like defining a leader). We also complain about the neverending email thread, and the disconnect between our daily lives and the design of Google Calendar. Rich shares his best excuses (Ed note: lies) to get out of a meeting!  3:45 — Paul: “There’s the Two Pizza Rule for Amazon where no team should be bigger than what you can feed with two pizzas.” 4:00 — Paul: “I think there are three good meetings. There is, ‘hi, let’s all get in the room as higher primates and get a sense of each other.’ You need to see and understand the people who are going to be working with you on something. There’s the kickoff. Then there’s the ‘we went away and did some work and we wanted to show you that work and get your discussion within about a half hour.’ Then there’s the standing process focus meeting in which you know what you’re going to do, it’s about a half hour long, and it’s just more efficient to […] find out what the tasks are and walk away.” 6:10 — Rich: “This is free for all our listeners. It’s the opposite of saying ‘this is a waste of time.’ Ready? Here’s the sentence: ‘You don’t really need me for this.’” 6:30 — Paul: “The calendar is this territory that belongs to you.” 10:35 — Paul: “Let’s be honest. Calendering software is terrible. The way that we’ve arranged the weeks so that they’re verticle stacks from top to bottom, that’s now how humans think about things.” 11:00 — Paul: “Time really works like a slithering snake. It goes from left to right.” 11:50 — Paul: “95% of meetings fail within the first six minutes.” 13:37 — Rich: You know what the worst invite is? The preface is this: ‘We all gotta get into a room.’ You get in a room and you realize the email thread was way more productive than us getting in a room.” 15:00 — Paul: “I’ll tell you what I like. Email or meetings? Neither. They’re both terrible.” 18:30 — Paul: “My brain works that way. Business brains don’t work that way. They talk and talk… My brain works in 8.5 by 11 inch paper, top to bottom. I can’t get that in business, and I accept that. I always feel a little bit like a space alien.” 20:40 — Rich: “If there isn’t a clear path to failure, then that meeting is useless.” 20:50 — Paul: “What favour are you doing anyone by hiding the fact that you’re secretly a compulsive lunatic who needs them to do things?” 21:00 — Rich: “The three legs of a stool are ‘what is the thing?’, ‘who’s responsible for the thing?’, and ‘when are you gonna get the thing?’” A full transcript of this episode is available. LINKS Jeff Bezos Meeting scheduling tool The ‘two pizza rule’ is Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos’ secret to productive meetings Jeff Bezos explains his famous one-character emails Track Changes is the weekly technology and culture podcast from Postlight, hosted by Paul Ford and Rich Ziade. Production, show notes and transcripts by EDITAUDIO. Podcast logo and design by Will Denton of Postlight.  

These 4 Strategies will help us get through any social situation.  Will power can only last us so long.  Accountability Play the tape forward Always have an exit strategy Stop and think.  Alcohol is a poison.  Neal, with 20 months since his last drink, shares his story   SHOW NOTES   [8:20] Paul Introduces Neal.  I am in my late 50’s.  I have 2 boys, 2 grandchildren.  I do maintenance work, I like to go camping and spend time with our granddaughter who lives with us.   [11:50] Paul-  In 1990, was your wife leaving you what got you sober?   Neal-  Yes.  I was driving a taxi in Seattle at that time.  The AA world convention came to town.  It was a huge emotional relief.  I cried throughout the whole event.   [16:06] Paul- Let’s back it up to 2008 when you took that first drink after 18 years of sobriety.  Can you walk us through that?   Neal-  The pressures, and there were times I would tell my wife to bring home a 6 pack of beer.  One day she finally did.  It took 6 months for me to ramp up to where I was after that.   [25:04]  Paul-  Curiosity is killing the cat, what was the reason?   Neal-  I had to go on Antabuse in November of 2015.  I had to go to the pharmacy and take the white pill.  Antabuse and alcohol do not mix.   [29:43] Paul-  With nearly 20 years of sobriety logged, do you still get cravings, and if you do still get them, what do you do?   Neal- I don’t get any cravings.  Like I said, on that day when I read the obsession, the cravings, it was all lifted, it’s gone.  I try to remain calm.  Step back and take a deep breath.  I try to reflect how they affect me.     [33:34] Rapid Fire Round What was your worst memory from drinking? I was at a former employers business and I asked my wife to come down to give me a ride home, she came down, and brought somebody else with her and I flew off the handle and was yelling and screaming, and they called the cops.  I wouldn’t come out, they couldn’t come in.  I finally came out, but it was scary. Did you ever have an “oh-shit” moment? It was the last week of my drinking.  I laid in bed, and called in sick everyday.  What’s your plan moving forward? To keep connected with AA.  Keep going on, and enjoying my 2 grandchildren. What’s your favorite resource in recovery? I have to say Podcasts.  I work alone a lot.  I listen to 10’s of 100’s of hours of podcasts.  What’s the best advice you’ve ever received (on sobriety)? Go to meetings, stay connected. What parting piece of guidance can you give listeners who are in recovery or thinking about quitting drinking?  One day at a time. You might be an alcoholic if... when you are opening that bottle to take a swig, at 1:00, 2:00, 3:00, 4:00,  or 5:00 in the morning just to get another 45 minutes or hour of sleep.   Resources mentioned in this episode: Connect with Cafe RE- Use the promo code opportunity to waive the set up fee. Sobriety Tracker iTunes Sobriety Tracker Android Sober Selfies! - Send your Sober Selfie and your Success Story to info@recoveryelevator.com     “We took the elevator down, we gotta take the stairs back up, we can do this!”  

There is the something everyone needs to get rid off. The root of bitterness. This message helps you identify what to adjust and be a better person God wants you to be. Listen, share and be blessed.

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