Working in Yoga

You finished your training. You passed your boards. You have the credential. And now you're discovering that the jobs you were promised aren't there. In this episode we name what the yoga therapy credentialing world has never said clearly: the job market doesn't exist the way you were told it did. That is not your failure. That is a promise that was never backed up with infrastructure — and it's time someone said it out loud.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomInside Yoga Magazine

If Part 1 made you believe a clinical yoga therapy job was possible, Part 2 is going to show you how to start going after one. Jenna Csont and Whitney Pasch get into the practical side — networking in spaces where yoga professionals are still a new concept, the education that makes these opportunities available, reaching out to therapy centers, and why knowing how to clearly explain what yoga therapy is may be the most underrated professional skill you can develop. Rebecca also reflects on what Jenna's path represents: solo, ground-up, door-building work that most of us weren't warned we'd need to do. If you're a yoga therapist who wants to work in clinical or medical settings, this episode is required listening.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomInside Yoga Magazine

Everyone told you to find your voice, build your brand, and develop your unique methodology. Nobody told you the order. In this episode, we talk about the sequence that the yoga industry never handed you — why you have to get better before you can get original, and why the pressure to skip that step is quietly crushing an entire generation of yoga professionals.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomInside Yoga Magazine

A lot of yoga therapists were told — or assumed — that salaried, benefits-included jobs simply didn't exist in this field. Jenna Csont and Whitney Pasch are here to complicate that story. In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, Rebecca talks with Jenna and Whitney about their work at a trauma-therapy clinic in the Chicagoland area, where they bring yoga — in all its forms, not just movement — to clients who might never have found their way to a studio class. They get into what clinical yoga therapy actually looks like day to day, what level of training is required, the relationship-building it takes to earn real respect inside a western medical setting, and the bigger conversation about accessibility and yoga's roots. This one will have you thinking about what's possible.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomInside Yoga Magazine

Everyone told you to find your voice, build your brand, and develop your unique methodology. Nobody told you the order. In this episode, we talk about the sequence that the yoga industry never handed you — why you have to get better before you can get original, and why the pressure to skip that step is quietly crushing an entire generation of yoga professionals.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomInside Yoga Magazine

What good are higher yoga standards if teachers can't pay their bills? That's the question that sparked this conversation with researcher and yoga therapist Steffany Moonaz. Together we dig into what the data actually says about yoga training, student safety, and whether the industry's push for updated standards from Yoga Alliance and IAYT can coexist with building real economic viability for yoga professionals. We also get into the anatomy curriculum problem, the difference between a licensed healthcare provider who "knows a few poses" and an actual yoga professional, and whether higher education is the direction we're all heading—or just some of us.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomInside Yoga MagazineGUEST LINKSSteffany's Website

Nobody handed you a pamphlet about this when you got certified. There's no union, no standardized pay scale, no HR department, and no institution coming to protect you if things go sideways. In the first episode of the What Nobody Told You series, Rebecca names the structural failure at the heart of the yoga industry — and then goes a step further. Because once you stop waiting for a safety net that was never being built, something clarifies. You stop organizing your career around a promise that was never real, and you start building something that actually belongs to you. This one is honest, a little hard, and worth the listen.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomMake Money In Yoga BoringBoring Money Stater Kit

In yoga and wellness spaces, we talk a lot about community, connection, and belonging. But what happens when those relationships start to feel conditional—or quietly transactional?In this episode, Rebecca explores the subtle shift from being in relationship to being useful in the industry. She unpacks the language of “collaboration” and “alignment,” the pressures of visibility and scarcity, and how businesses built on belonging can blur the lines between care and obligation.This is a conversation about relational burnout, consent in professional relationships, and what it might look like to rebuild community without extraction.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomSponsorship Opportunities

Yoga's missing career ladder doesn't just cost you professionally — it costs you financially. In this episode, Rebecca Sebastian names the specific, predictable ways the broken structure of the yoga industry transfers its costs onto individual workers: the training trap, the visibility myth, the body math nobody does, and the hidden overhead of patchwork income.This is not a hustle episode. It's a clarity episode — for mid-career yoga professionals who are tired of blaming themselves for navigating terrain that was never mapped.Includes a mention of the free Boring Money Starter Kit and the Make Money in Yoga Boring working seminar on March 31st.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomMake Money In Yoga BoringBoring Money Stater Kit

Have you ever felt like your yoga studio was a little... intense about getting you to recruit friends? Or wondered where the line is between genuine community and transactional belonging?In this episode, we're going somewhere a lot of people in the yoga world aren't ready to go — and we're bringing a commercial cult expert with us.Brandie Hadfield joins the podcast to unpack the uncomfortable overlap between MLM culture and how many yoga studios, teacher training programs, and even large chains like CorePower operate. We talk about the ethics of selling belonging, the reality of dual relationships (when your teacher is also your boss), and why yoga professionals need explicit training in recognizing power dynamics.This episode grew out of the host's deep dive into cult documentaries, podcasts, and her article The Business of Belonging for Inside Yoga Magazine — and it might just change how you see your studio community.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomInside Yoga MagazineThe Business of Belonging Artlce–FreeGUEST LINKSBrandie's Support GroupBrandie's Substack

In this solo episode, Rebecca revisits three of last year's most popular series with fresh 2026 updates that every yoga professional needs to hear.First up: making money boring. We're talking about the systems, grief, and pricing drama that keep yoga teachers stuck—and how to finally break free. Then, a reality check on AI in yoga: spoiler alert, the robots aren't coming for your jobs, but they are making your admin life easier. Finally, a controversial take on creativity: is our obsession with niching down actually killing our creative spark?This episode includes real data on the yoga market (hint: it's growing 80% by 2032), honest talk about pricing and self-worth, and permission to follow your creative impulses even when they don't fit your brand.Plus, details on Rebecca's upcoming seminar: Make Money in Yoga Boring (March 31st, $45 early bird through March 1st).If you're a yoga teacher navigating the business side of this work, this one's for you.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomMake Money In Yoga Boring

What does it look like to take your yoga training beyond the studio and into real community care work?In this episode, Rebecca talks with returning guest Shelly Auld, a wellness coordinator working in a North Minneapolis school district. Shelly shares how she built a program that supports educators and staff through nervous system regulation, co-regulation, and accessible movement—and how that work is already impacting staff retention and wellbeing.This conversation is a powerful reminder that yoga professionals are needed in schools, healthcare, corporate environments, and beyond. It's not about the perfect certification—it's about applying your skills where people actually need them.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomSponsorship OpportunitiesShelly's Website

In this episode of Working In Yoga, Rebecca Sebastian is joined by Gloria Hester, whose work may challenge everything you think you know about how yoga is used professionally.Gloria shares her path into somatic education for vertebrate animals, offering a compelling example of how yoga principles can be applied far beyond traditional classroom settings. Together, they explore intuition as a professional skill, the nuance between following opportunity and honoring boundaries, and what it means to work therapeutically with non-human beings.This conversation invites yoga and wellness professionals to question the idea that the field is a monoculture — and instead consider how varied, creative, and bespoke our careers can truly be. It's a thoughtful look at intuition, ethics, and the many unexpected directions yoga work can take.RESOURCES2026 Industry ForecastWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomSponsorship OpportunitiesGUEST LINKSGloria Hester

In this episode of Working In Yoga, host Rebecca Sebastian is joined by Suzie Carmack for a wide-ranging conversation on burnout, wellbeing, and the future of yoga and wellness professions.Together, we unpack why yoga work can be uniquely isolating, how that isolation fuels burnout, and why traditional “self-care” often misses the mark. Suzie shares insights from her book The Wellbeing Ultimatum, and talks about how wellbeing lacks a shared definition, why social support is essential for burnout recovery, and how identifying joy can be a powerful professional practice.This episode also explores professional identity, creative autonomy, fairytale thinking, and why yoga professionals exist at the intersection of healing and artistry. It's an invitation to rethink burnout not as personal failure, but as a systemic issue — and to imagine careers that are bespoke, sustainable, and rooted in real belonging.RESOURCES2026 Industry ForecastWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomSponsorship OpportunitiesGUEST LINKSSuzie Carmack

Yoga has no career ladder.And for many mid-career yoga professionals, that realization arrives quietly—through burnout, confusion, or the feeling that the work should make more sense by now.In this solo episode, Rebecca explores why yoga careers are structurally non-linear, how training and personal branding have been positioned as substitutes for real professional pathways, and why so many skilled teachers and therapists end up blaming themselves for systemic gaps.This is not an episode about hustling harder, pivoting faster, or waiting for the industry to be rescued.It's a conversation about clarity:Why yoga offers inspiration without infrastructureHow burnout is often grief, not failureWhat happens when careers are built without shared support or advocacyAnd how to redefine progress in care-based work without chasing legitimacyThis episode also introduces The Back Room, a private professional space for yoga workers who want reflection, strategy, and sustainability—without high-ticket coaching or industry drama.A guided reflection sheet accompanies this episode inside The Back Room for listeners who want to sit with these questions more deeply.RESOURCES2026 Industry ForecastWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomSponsorship Opportunities

In this episode of Working In Yoga, we take the conversation global with Rebel Tucker, Vice President of Yoga Australia. Rebel shares how Yoga Australia actively incorporates member feedback, supports both teachers and students, and maintains “common sense standards” that protect practitioners and the public alike.We explore what it looks like when a professional organization truly represents its community, why connection among yoga professionals is essential, and what the U.S. yoga industry can learn from international models. We also dive into big-picture questions about yoga's place in wellness vs. healthcare systems, training standards around the world, and whether the future of the industry lies in one major organization or many niche ones.This episode is an invitation to think beyond borders — and imagine what's possible when yoga professionals are heard, supported, and connected.RESOURCES2026 Industry ForecastWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomSponsorship OpportunitiesGUEST LINKSRebel Tucker

In this final conversation with Becky Aten and Theo Wildcroft, we dive into the concept of neuroqueering—the practice of disrupting what's considered “normal” in both neurotypical and heteronormative culture. Through laughter, curiosity, and deep reflection, we explore how yoga spaces can move away from rigid, productivity-driven ideals and instead celebrate unusual bodies, brains, and ways of being.We talk about queerness as a refusal of capitalist productivity, the deep intersections between neurodiversity and trauma, and why morality has quietly shaped how yoga is supposed to look and feel. This episode invites yoga professionals to embrace experimentation, question the “why” behind their teaching choices, and allow a little more weirdness—because that's often where freedom, healing, and creativity live.RESOURCES2026 Industry ForecastWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomSponsorship OpportunitiesGUEST LINKSTheo WildcroftBecky Aten

In this follow-up conversation, we go deeper into what inclusive design actually looks like in yoga spaces. From sound engineering and sensory considerations to universal design principles and the social model of disability, this episode explores how centering neurodivergent people from the beginning—not as an afterthought—can radically change how yoga is taught, experienced, and shared. We also reflect on how trauma-informed practices translate, why lived experience must guide decision-making, and how training future teachers needs to evolve.RESOURCES2026 Industry ForecastWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomSponsorship OpportunitiesGUEST LINKSTheo WildcroftJess GlennyBecky Aten

What does it actually mean to create inclusive yoga spaces for neurodivergent people? In this episode, we explore the intersection of trauma-informed yoga and neurodivergent safety—while also modeling what it looks like to learn in real time. You'll hear moments of curiosity, missteps, and grace as language evolves in the conversation, offering a powerful reminder that inclusion isn't about perfection. It's about willingness, reflection, and designing spaces that welcome everyone from the very beginning.RESOURCES2026 Industry ForecastWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterThe Back RoomSponsorship OpportunitiesGUEST LINKSTheo WildcroftJess GlennyBecky Aten

What happens when an industry grows faster than its infrastructure? In this solo episode, Rebecca explores how yoga professionals ended up navigating public discourse, expensive coaching, and deeply personal career decisions all at once—and why we desperately need quieter, more intentional spaces to think, reflect, and build what comes next.

As 2025 comes to a close, this solo episode of Working In Yoga offers a pause rather than a prediction.Instead of recapping highlights or forecasting the future, Rebecca reflects on what this year quietly revealed about working in yoga—shifts in stability, authority, sustainability, and how the work itself is changing shape.Drawing from conversations across nearly 100 podcast episodes and countless off-mic discussions, this episode explores why so many yoga professionals feel unsettled right now—and why that feeling may be a rational response to changing structures, not a personal failure.This episode is an invitation to orient, not to optimize. To notice what's holding, what's straining, and what's emerging—without rushing to name or fix it.RESOURCES2026 Industry ForecastWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga Newsletter

What if creativity in yoga isn't about novelty—but about depth, structure, and purpose? In this episode, we unpack the difference between engagement and entertainment, why foundations matter, and how knowing your “why” shapes sustainable, skillful teaching.Key Takeaways• Creativity needs structure. Creative work thrives when supported by systems. Whether you create within set hours or follow inspiration when it strikes, structure doesn't limit creativity—it sustains it.• Creativity is not the same as variety. Variety leans toward entertainment. Teaching yoga is about clarity, transmission, and guidance—not constant novelty.• Engagement ≠ entertainment. Our role as yoga teachers is to engage students intellectually, physically, and emotionally—not to perform or entertain for retention's sake. The yoga itself is enough.• Foundation before innovation. Creative expression works best when built on strong fundamentals. A solid understanding of yoga principles allows for skillful adaptation without losing integrity.• Know your “why.” Understanding why you show up to teach—calling, service, curiosity, devotion—grounds your creativity and keeps your work aligned and sustainable.RESOURCES2026 Industry ForecastWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterArundhati's Website

Yoga therapy is creative work. In this episode, we explore how yoga pros adapt tools to clients, transfer their skills into new industries, navigate evolving client relationships, and build burnout-proof self-care habits for 2026.KEY TAKEAWAYS✨ Yoga therapy is inherently creative.Yoga therapists practice creative application of yogic tools—adapting techniques to the individual instead of using prescriptive methods. That flexibility IS the creative process.

This episode explores practical and compassionate business strategy for yoga professionals. From setting bold 2026 goals to understanding systemic challenges, making meaningful connections, gathering simple data, identifying your ideal students, and trying new ideas without pressure—we break down what it really takes to grow your yoga business with intention and curiosity.1. Make a 2026 Plan (Big + Simple!)

In this episode, we explore the creative side of yoga marketing—from ethical strategies to avoiding predatory coaching “containers,” to understanding why generalists thrive. You'll learn how to build your business with intention, creativity, and clarity while putting in the reps that lead to confidence and long-term success.1. Marketing = Creative Problem-Solving

In this episode of Working in Yoga, Rebecca & Per Erez explore how creativity isn't just for the “naturally gifted.” It's a practice — cultivated through curiosity, courage, and daily choices. Featuring Per's perspective on yoga, mindset shifts, and creative evolution, this episode helps yoga teachers reconnect to the imaginative spark that fuels their teaching and business.Key Takeaways:

In this episode, Rebecca explores how creativity shows up in yoga classrooms—from responding to students in real time to weaving storytelling through your teaching. With insights on AI, community, and cultural representation, this conversation invites yoga professionals to embrace their creativity as a core part of their teaching craft.

What does it mean to be creative royalty? In this episode, Rebecca and Cheri Dostal Ryba explore how yoga professionals can tap into curiosity, move past fear, and stay grounded through the ups and downs of creative work. Whether you're building a yoga business, creating new classes, or just trying to feel brave enough to share your ideas, this episode reminds you that you don't have to be perfect to create something powerful.

Running a yoga business isn't all incense and inspiration—sometimes it's spreadsheets, stress, and shame spirals. In this episode, we dive into what it really takes to lead creatively. From finding the right coach to using AI without guilt, you'll learn how to free up your mental space, ditch the “I should know better” stories, and reconnect to the spark that made you love this work in the first place.

Ever feel the tug between tradition and innovation in your teaching? In this episode, we get real about creative tension, versatility, and the art of making your yoga practice your own. We're talking curated inspiration, themed classes, and the power of choosing creativity—on and off the mat.KEY TAKEAWAYS:Creative tension is real — and necessary. Balancing yoga's roots with personal expression isn't easy. Honoring lineage, serving your students, and staying true to your creative self can coexist—but not without a little healthy friction.Versatility feeds inspiration. Whether it's teaching different styles, exploring new students, or shifting focus, creative growth often lives outside our comfort zone.Style and emphasis shape your teaching voice. Every teacher brings something unique to familiar sequences. Instead of “happy accidents,” make your personal style a conscious part of your class design.Curate your inspiration. Be intentional about where you draw creative energy—online or off. Cook, read, move, explore art—whatever fuels your imagination will fuel your teaching.Themes give form to freedom. Teaching around an idea, like exploring discomfort vs. suffering, brings depth and cohesion to your work. Creative parameters can actually unlock greater play.Creativity is a practice, not an accident. You must choose creativity—schedule it, honor it, and make space for it in the middle of real life.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterPodcast ShopDownload the Discussion Guide!Julia's IG

Welcome to a new series on creativity in the yoga professional space.We are going to deep-dive for 11 episodes into the creative experience we have as yoga teachers, yoga therapists, and business owners.I love this topic so much, and I am thrilled that so many other people were enthusiastic to have this conversation with me.Shelly Auld is up first, and the way she comes out and describes her work in the first five minutes of this chat got me so excited for what was to come.

In this solo episode, Rebecca shares the biggest news yet for Working In Yoga: the launch of a brand-new digital trade magazine for yoga professionals. After years of conversations on the podcast about teaching, therapy, creativity, and the business of yoga, it's time to create a professional home for our community. Rebecca dives into why the magazine matters, how it carries yoga's countercultural roots into a modern professional space, and how you can get involved from the very beginning.RESOURCESSubscribe To Inside Yoga MagazinePitch A Story for Inside Yoga MagazineWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterPodcast ShopOffering Tree Discount For Working In Yoga Listeners

✨ Yoga biz isn't just about mats and malas anymore—it's about data, confidence, and community. In this episode, we're diving into why your studio needs a clear point of view, how COVID secretly did us a favor with tech, and why vibes alone won't keep the lights on (sorry, not sorry). We'll talk rethinking service, making “giving back” the hottest trend of 2026, and building real business confidence—without ditching the soul of yoga.

✨ What if yoga history forgot half the story? In this episode, we dive into the missing voices of women, the power of everyday acts of resistance, and why who tells the tale of yoga matters just as much as the practice itself. Spoiler: every pebble counts, and radical love is the real revolution.

Have you ever wondered what those $300 online teacher trainings were like?Well, I asked someone who both teaches online and also has looked through more than one of these.What really makes a yoga teacher training “good”? In this episode, we explore the realities of online vs. in-person YTTs, why pacing and feedback matter, and how affordability impacts accessibility in the yoga profession. Katlyn Greiner and I delve into the myth that higher costs equal higher quality, the role mentorship can play in shaping new teachers, and the financial realities of studios running training sessions. Plus, we unpack the tension between brand cohesion and creativity in the yoga business.KEY TAKEAWAYS 1. Online vs. in-person training Asynchronous, low-cost YTTs aren't inherently “less than.” We need to rethink perceptions of online vs. in-person education.2. Pacing matters Dumping all the content at once isn't effective. Pacing supports integration and embodiment of teachings.3. Feedback is essential Integrated feedback—live or asynchronous—is key to learning, relationship-building, and quality in online trainings.4. Financial accessibility Low-cost trainings expand access. Eliminating them would reduce opportunities for many aspiring teachers.5. Mentorship as the missing link Imagine affordable online YTTs paired with paid local mentorship—a model that supports both new teachers and experienced guides.6. Rethinking “quality” High price ≠ high quality. Metrics for strong training should include teaching skill, student engagement, and practical business acumen.7. Teacher trainings ≠ cash cow For many studios, YTTs aren't highly profitable—they're a labor of love or a way to train new teachers.8. Creativity vs. brand cohesion Studios must balance cohesive branding with honoring yoga as a creative practice. Navigating that tension is key to sustainable growth.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterPodcast ShopRegister for the FREE webinarKatlyn's IG

This week I am chatting with yoga trainer, studio owner, and data maven, Gina Ward.Gina ran some data for yoga studio owners, so she could better inform her yoga teacher trainees what the realities of studio ownership are like. Wanna know what the data said? Yeah, I did too. Take a listen find out.KEY TAKEAWAYS:1. Studio profitability isn't guaranteed Profitability means revenue exceeds expenses—but 20% of yoga studios never reach that point. Only 25% are profitable in year one, while 55% take 1–5 years. Most studio owners earn less than people assume.2. What studio owners really earn 52% of yoga studio owners make $12–60K per year, often working 40+ hours a week. Only 12% earn more, while 18% make less than $12K. These numbers show two truths: (1) owners aren't the “big winners” of the yoga industry, and (2) we can't fix money problems we refuse to discuss. 3. Headcount ≠ success For membership-based studios, headcount is often a vanity metric. It looks good on paper but doesn't always reflect real revenue or financial health.4. Pay for prep time Gina compensates teachers for reading emails and prep work—a small but powerful shift that values teachers' time. This should be an industry standard. 5. Rethinking hiring culture Studios often expect teachers to “fit in” socially before being hired. This mindset undervalues professionalism and holds the industry back. Fair, transparent hiring practices are essential for credibility.6. Professionalism vs. friendship In wellness, blurred boundaries between “boss” and “friend” are common. But leaders set the tone: if owners expect professionalism from teachers, they must model it themselvesRESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterPodcast ShopRegister for the FREE webinarOffering Tree Discount For Working In Yoga Listeners!!Gina's Website

For those of you following the topic of licensure in the yoga space, this is for you.Should we be a licensed profession? Should we leave it all up to self-regulation within the industry?What would that even mean for us?I ask a literal licensing expert, Kris Maul, and he provides us with all the details.KEY TAKEAWAYSGatekeeping with integrity Not all gatekeeping is bad. We need clear professional standards to differentiate yoga therapists from yoga teachers offering “therapeutic yoga.” At the same time, licensure must remain accessible to neurodivergent practitioners and those who struggle with standardized testing, as well as those who might need financial access. Professionalization should include equity and inclusivity.Public protection matters Licensure creates accountability. Right now, a yoga professional could abuse a client, move towns, and start over with no consequences. If we truly care about student welfare, we must create systems that reflect that responsibility.Licensure ≠ Insurance Being able to bill insurance could expand access, but it should be addressed separately from licensure. First, we need clear definitions of our scope of practice and how yoga therapy fits into healthcare systems.Financial sustainability Currently, yoga professionals are split between “high-ticket clients only” and “self-sacrifice for service.” Both models are unsustainable. We need a third path that honors our education, ensures fair pay, and expands accessibility without burning us out.De-centering organizations Professional growth should center on practitioners, not gatekeeping organizations. Recent leadership choices (like hiring non-yoga professionals to lead major orgs) show how disconnected these bodies are from our lived reality. Just as farmers need farmers to lead co-ops, yoga professionals need leaders who understand our industry firsthand. If orgs don't reflect that, it's time to build structures that do.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterPodcast ShopKris's Website

It's a wrap, friends.I have finished my talks about AI and tech, for now, and here is what I learned.Working In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterDiscussion GuideHow Yoga Competes With AI. An AI's Response

This final interview in our AI & Tech series is one of my faves. It isn't often I meet someone so decidedly pro-tech in the yoga space, so chatting with Ram Bhakt was a true breath of fresh air.KEY TAKEAWAYS*AI can undoubtedly help us with our businesses. Ram listed a whole lot of things AI can help with–marketing, emails, scheduling, and more. Which ones do you feel confident in implementing sooner rather than later?*Colleagues who are using AI are going to pass you by. This is undeniably true. If you consider our market saturated or competitive, you might want to consider exploring how AI can help you stand out in your business.*While AI yoga teachers are not prevalent now, they absolutely do exist. If you didn't catch that article from NPR on nursing home facilities using AI yoga teachers in Colorado, I will link that in the show notes. And what I want you to think about is how you will offer something different than those AI teachers.*Wearable AI and yoga is SUCH a good idea!! Is anyone doing this already? Dr. Steffany Moonaz, I am looking at you. Could we get Ora rings for everyone to measure biomarkers as they practice yoga from anywhere in the world? That could potentially have a huge impact on our research wing of the industry. *Our orgs could help us with some of this!! They could be building chatbots for us to help folks looking for resources about yoga. I am giving a solid side-eye to you, International Association of Yoga Therapists. But let's be honest, the org most likely to give us this is the American Yoga Council, the new kid on the block. So if you are listening, we want you to build us chatbots that help practitioners find their way to teachers, yoga therapists, and more. DM me, Andrew, and Scott–I could go on for a while on this. In fact, maybe I will do a final wrap-up episode and add more details. *Self-actualization in business and yoga is something we need to talk about. Because we need to be careful as sincere yoga practitioners AND business owners. The improvement of both of these requires a path of self-actualization. I feel like I have made this joke on the podcast, but certainly I have said it in talks and in person–when you run a yoga business, it feels like you cannot escape self-improvement. And sometimes I just want to eat chips and scroll TikTok. So it is worth building up some practices to give yourself a break. Yoga folks, as I have experienced them, are often intense people, and we need to make sure that we are balancing out this dual journey of self-discovery with some hobbies (yoga is not your hobby, babe) and relaxation.*Ram made a couple of comments on the over-intellectualization of yoga, and those folks who are deep sticklers for traditional yoga, and I want to mention that I have been, at one time, both of those things. For me, personally, some of that came from a place of feeling like I had learned all I needed to from yoga–a sure sign I hadn't learned nearly as much as I thought; and the fact that it feels good to think we are morally superior to other people. That is a trap in thinking that I see a lot in the West. If you want to think your way out of it, then go ahead and wrestle with the idea that you and I have the same job as anyone who teaches hot, Buti, goat yoga with wine chasers. I am gonna gently hold your hand and remind you we all have the same job. K, love you. Truly.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterTell Us A Story! Funny Stories via SpeakPipeRam's WebsiteAI & Tech Discussion GuideNPR Article on AI in senior living facilities

So there are definitely some ethics things we need to talk about in regards to AI. Intellectual property rights have long been an issue in the yoga space (I can't be the only one who has had stuff blatantly stolen), and this issue carries over to AI.Key Takeaways:*Labor unions are a particular love of mine. I have a deep desire to see us collectively organize within North America so that we can be better informed and advocate for ourselves in the world. I think this is especially important for us in the yoga therapy space as we slide into so many different and diverse places that seek to use our tools (like meditation, breathwork, and lifestyle and philosophy principles) to improve the live for humans they see and interact with.*Why would you work so hard to be part of a system that isn't working??? YES. This can be true for healthcare, toxic yoga studio spaces, and training programs that are not run ethically. Don't get me wrong, I *totally* have been a part of a toxic yoga space, but the desire that yoga and yoga therapy as an industry has to integrate into a system that isn't looking to the best interest of the humans who use it, is…well…not us. Some might call it gross or appropriative, even. *Let's talk about this idea of AI not being able to generate a personalized program. I think that it won't be too long before AI absolutely can do that. And I mean, like, next Tuesday. So what else are we offering besides the ability to personalize a program? Maybe it is less about the personalization of the program and more about being seen as a whole person by another human in front of you.*The joy of the struggle is something that has come up several times on this series, and was first mentioned in episode one by J Brown. There IS something to us struggling through finding ideas, and learning to be a better yoga professional. I can now say, with confidence, that I have done everything there is to do in the yoga space. Yoga teacher, therapist, studio owner, non-profit founder, trainer, writer, speaker. Do we have an EGOT? Cuz I think I have it. And no matter the number of times people have asked me “how did you do all that”, my answer is always “be so good your work is undeniable”. And you don't get good if you don't struggle. *The perspective that Melissa brings about yoga therapy and hours of work per week is a really important one. She is right—most yoga therapists are working at max 15 hours a week. Because the work is incredibly difficult, especially as we strive to be incredibly present with our clients. So maybe we need to be discussing that a little bit more as an industry whole, eh? *YOGA HAS A POVERTY PROBLEM. This is gonna be a key takeaway every time I say it on the podcast. The difference between poverty and scarcity is this: *Using AI to create trainings!! How are the organizations that certify our trainings and making sure that they are actual humans writing training manuals? As Melissa said, “doing the work is a part of your profession as an ethical human being”. Yeah, that times 20000. *Protecting our intellectual property is something that we should be talking about and training our students about. Maybe I should find someone to consult and make best practices for intellectual property management for the yoga community, eh? That feels like something we desperately need. *Our humanity and connection with each other will be something that is not replicable by tech or AI. If you have ever interacted with an LLM (large language model) AI, you will notice that they are programmed for likeability. Have you ever thought to yourself, “This is the most girly-pop AI I have ever met?”. I sure have. But true likeability and connection don't feel false, true trust involves questioning people's thought process if they need it, and being truly seen and known as a human is something that is a core need of all people.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterTell Us A Story! Funny Stories via SpeakPipeMelissa's InstagramAI & Tech Discussion GuideNPR Article on AI in senior living facilities

Where do we see ourselves after the tech revolution happens?Well, in one of the most thoughtful conversations I have had about this topic, Kimberly Searl and I get into it.KEY TAKEAWAYS*How do we discern what is “Real” and what is not? This is a huge question, and we need to unpack it. Especially as we look at marketing and online representations of our field, what benchmarks are you using to tell AI-generated content from non-AI-generated content? If you've never thought about it, maybe start paying attention to what you are seeing and have some mental guidelines for your online consumption of yoga content.*IS the life cycle of our services ending? How do we speak to a new generation of people? I have joked more than once that “yoga teacher training” is a thing that millennials did, and let's be honest, that is true. So, how do we make ourselves relevant to a younger generation who are all more tech savvy, and also expect us to answer their need for real life to exist in two spaces–both IRL and online? The answer to this question is going to define our future, friends. So let's talk about it.*Kimberly's quote: “Will I have enough interest in the service I offer to ride out the 4-6 years that it will take for people to realize I am still relevant?” THIS is the question of the hour. There is no doubt in my mind that what we offer, the human connection we cultivate, is vital to our existence. But how many of us will be left by the time this realization reaches mainstream consciousness?*We need to come up with solutions NOW for how we are going to work for the future. Financially, how we are working isn't acceptable for so many reasons. Too many people in our industry are stuck in the 2010s, where it was easy for us to make money because we were the new, trendy, hot commodity on the wellness market. Guess what? We are not that anymore. So now what? Are we ready to stand up and shift our profession, or are we going to prove ourselves to be just a fad? I love us and want us to thrive, and in order to do that, I think conversations about this are beyond necessary. *Can we agree that there needs to be some shifting in expectations on marketing and social media? Cuz Kimberly is right, the most prolific posting people on social media are using AI, which often gives an unrealistic expectation of what we do. Or uses bait-and-switch techniques in order to get people in the door. In fact, I was trained many years ago to use a version of bait-and-switch when I was a budding yoga therapist. We can do it differently, but we need to be realistic about how we show up. And dear god, have a private link to free content to get jobs. I cannot say this enough. If you are applying for a job or contract, have a link to a private video on YouTube that demonstrates who you are as a teacher or yoga therapist. Let's normalize having this with every single touch we give for new jobs. Please, please, please.*What is our relationship with the apps? I really want to know what you are thinking about apps like Calm, etc. Do you love ‘em? Find a benefit for your students and clients? Find their competition? Seriously, I wanna know, so don't hesitate to tell me!*WHY DO WE NOT HAVE STANDARD BEST PRACTICES??? Dear god, if there is anything that our orgs could do, it would be to build best practices. Just saying. But since they aren't doing it, I think I will. So again, email rebecca@workinginyoga.com if you want to contribute to the discussion. SOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterTell Us A Story! Funny Stories via SpeakPipeKimberly's WebsiteAI & Tech Discussion GuideNPR Article on AI in senior living facilities

This conversation holds two places we need to talk about.First, how can we use tech and still be human? What do we need to adjust in order to use what tech can give us, while also being our most human selves?Secondly, what practical ways can tech help up in our yoga businesses? Check out this conversation and find out.KEY TAKEAWAYS*Springboarding is one of the first ways I ever used AI for my own business. I really do find it useful to have someone or something else to bounce ideas off of, and asking AI for both creative prompts and time management solutions has been something I really value. *This idea of the balance of artistry and practicality is one that we also talked about with J Brown on his episode for this series. There is a benefit to struggle, and from that struggle we can create beautiful things. However, practically speaking, we can use AI for ideas of things that aren't necessarily needed to struggle. Did someone ask you to do a yoga class for kids, and you need ideas for crafts? AI can be a great place to gain inspiration quickly and efficiently.*We have to add a human twist to AI content. Have you ever received an email from someone who is using AI to make the copy? It is often both weird and insulting. Make sure that any content you get from an AI source (be it ChatGPT, Gemini, or Grok) is also being vetted by your brain. Shift the language, make it seem less formal, and more, for lack of a better word, human.*Individualizing our practice for people is one thing that AI is not competing with us on…yet. I know optimists are confident AI won't ever be able to match our ability to create customized yoga therapy sequences, or anything else for that matter–I am not one of those people. I think AI's ability to create customized anything will happen sooner rather than later. But right now, AI can't do that, and we can. So lean into the idea that you can make something totally unique just for a particular individual, be it a yoga therapy plan or a custom yoga class.*I think AI taking over alignment will happen really quickly for us. All those “alignment-based” classes and workshops we have sold will likely go away for a more AI-based approach. And thank goodness, honestly. We were focusing on the wrong things anyway. *If AI takes over the physicality and alignment, this could be the move that gets people pushing us into more yoga-y yoga. We need to lean into our personal experiences and the philosophy and lifestyle portions of the practice in order to bring more of our human selves to the equation. RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterTell Us A Story! Funny Stories via SpeakPipeJustin's WebsiteAI & Tech Discussion GuideNPR Article on AI in senior living facilities

Someone once told me that hanging around with yoga people was like having all of those late-night “what is the meaning of life?” conversations with full adults.Enter Mandi King to the chat. She and I recreate hanging out at the coffee shop ‘til 3 a.m. drinking black coffee, listening to Radiohead, and talking about deep conversations—this time about yoga philosophy and AI. All key takeaways listed on the podcast are the answer ChatGPT gave me on thoughts of samskaras, moksha, and karma. Take a listen.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterMandi's Website Mandi's NewsletterAI & Tech Series Discussion GuideHey Hun Yoga Book Club

What is the impact AI and tech have had, and are going to have on teaching yoga?J Brown and I have thoughts.KEY TAKEAWAYS:*I do think we need to pay homage to some of the old ways, even as we adapt to new tech. When yoga, as an industry, sort of came of age in the 90s, we were using old shoe boxes, tissue boxes, or cigar boxes to store our money. And there is something to that model, even if some of that “something” was a bunch of yoga studios evading taxes. We certainly were running businesses that were using a significantly smaller amount of tech. I also feel a bit of nostalgia for those days. I remember walking up 48 stairs in a 200-year-old building to get to a class where we wrote our names on a sign-in sheet that also served as a waiver. Which is to say, we've come a long way, baby. * Interactive engagement with other humans matters. It also improves our yoga teaching skills and teaches us how to navigate all kinds of humans skillfully. However, since the majority of us are one human show as far as our business is concerned, tech can help us lead capture and navigate competition against major corporations who run chain studios like Yoga6 and CorePower.*One of the best points here is that if you use tech or not, there needs to be boundaries around it. Are you using it to help fundraise, like I did? Are you using it to replace the discomfort of not being proficient at a thing? What your intentions are for use is a great, deeper inquiry here.*The struggle matters for the professional experience!! OMGI could not agree with this thought J has more. Some initial struggle is SO useful for developing proficiency as a teacher. You will hear an interview in this series with Justin DeAngleo, who talks a lot about how he uses tech as a springboard for ideas. Like a conversation starter, so to speak. But it is up to us to interpret the ideas a develop them as human beings. And in this process…sometimes a little bit of discomfort is necessary.*Turning off all the spigots is such good business advice. Stop all the flow and then turn each stream on one by one until you figure out what makes an actual difference and do a whole lot more of that. *What a great question here–is there a point of diminishing return? At what point is the tech that once helped us hindering us? This is a great add-on question to our AI and Tech series discussion guide that you can find in our show notes. *Do you believe that the inevitable progression of AI and tech is that we will need to opt in to more tracking? The tracking conversation is always an interesting one, as it seems like we are already tracked via our cell phones for most things. Is that okay with you? It is in antithesis to the liberation practice of yoga?And finally, two other industry points of inquiry for you to end this conversation.What are your thoughts on online training vs. in-person training? At least one org has decided that an all-online asynchronous training has the same weight as an all in-person training. Do you agree with this? Is there nuance here?Which also begs the follow up question, should our orgs have industry standards and guidelines for how we use AI and tech in our industry–or is this something we all need to figure out for ourselves?RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterJ's WebsiteRebecca's Interview on JBrown Yoga TalksAI & Tech Series Discussion GuideHey Hun Yoga Book Club

Buckle up, friends.We are about to get into how artificial intelligence and tech can impact our futures near and far. It isn't all bad news, but we do need to be prepared.Also, download our discussion guide for this series!Working In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterDiscussion Guide

It's always about money and power, isn't it?RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterMarc Maron Clip.

This is the final interview in our series about yoga organizations, how they operate, and our futures. And it is a good one. Jivana Heyman is nothing if not an expert in the operations of organizations, with such an amazing understanding of how they work and what they should be doing for us. KEY TAKEAWAYS*The point of an organization, any organization, is to speak for those who have less power. Jivana put that beautifully. If you are a non-profit organization that takes membership dues, even if your status doesn't explicitly state that you are for the members, what is the point of you if you don't speak up for those with less power? *PLEASE watch for orgs consolidating power. When fewer and fewer people have more and more of the say, that is a KEY sign that things are not functioning properly in the organization.*Accessible Yoga did best practices for online teaching. I just need to repeat that as something that it is INSANE to me that the yoga alliance OR IAYT has not set forth. This is going to be critical to us in the future as we look at a lot more of our work going online in the next 5-10 years. Have YOU been thinking about online, AI and tech? I have. *There IS something not working in the yoga space, and I agree with Jivana, I cannot quite figure it out either. A lack of generosity, so much gatekeeping, resource hoarding, what else? *I will say this now until I die. The Yoga Alliance and the IAYT have scope of practice issues. What is best for yoga practitioners and yoga schools is not always the same. What is best for yoga therapists in practice and best for yoga therapy schools are definitely not the same. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE sort your scope of practice issues out!!*Jivana pointed out some operational things about the Yoga Alliance that I find SO STAGGERINGLY awful. The Yoga Alliance is allegedly taking the money they make from dues, funneling it into another organization that has tax-free status (c-6 trade orgs are not tax-free), and each org has the SAME board and CEO. Talk about conflict of interest. Whatcha need that money for Yoga Alliance? Tell us what's going on, boo.*Let's figure out how to support each other in the next four years if you are in the US. By all accounts things are looking dicey for us as an industry that exists in the “extra” bucket of most people's budgets. When people have less extra money to spend, we tend to see our numbers dip. So how are we going to support each other and get through what will likely be a difficult period for our businesses?*Finally, I want to share a few of Jivana's ideas about what an organization could offer its members. Free training, continuing education, legal support, liability insurance, waivers, contracts, more information and data about our industry, marketing, and the role of supporting unions are just some of the things they could be doing. And if any organization was doing this, they would for sure have my money.RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterJivana's Website1

We should all be watching and listing to Davy Jones. Davy came into this conversation with more nuggets about organizing, connecting, and taking a stand against organizations than almost any other guest I have had on this podcast.I can't wait for you to listen.KEY TAKEAWAYS *First, I would just really love to mention that the UK has a labor union for yoga pros. This is a thing that happens around the world, and I am excited to explore this conversation more in the coming months.*In spite of many objections by SO many (really SO SO many) people I have talked to in the yoga space, a union actually could help yoga professionals in North America. The union could do for us what it does for UK workers–provide advocacy, health insurance, support, and accountability for the profession of yoga. Collectively, we are better together. Unions can be part of our solution.*Ever since I started getting involved with advocacy work in regards to the IAYT (International Association of Yoga Therapists) people keep asking me some variation of the same question. “Are YOU starting an organization?” But this begs the question I asked Davy about the British Wheel of Yoga. What is the point of an organization? We have a lot of orgs that claim to be doing good work in the field, but very few can come to the table with receipts. The British Wheel of Yoga is just one of many in this regard.*Building community and service into our business models is SO crucial for aligning our businesses with yogic principles. It is inevitable that we will need to price our services in such a way that we make enough money to keep our doors open, but unpacking the question of how we give back is key to going forward in our industry with integrity and respect for the tradition and practice of yoga.*UK Community Outreach Network is the coolest idea I have heard in such a long time. Honestly, can I interview everyone who is involved in this so we can tell the world how it works? Please? Also, does anyone in the States want to work on this with me?*Let's chat about an organization that keeps our students safe. What does this look like? How can we support this sort of organization? *I don't know how many times I have referenced BREWED, a program I do at my studio for studentship, but please go ahead and steal my idea. Studentship courses can offer people a deeper understanding of yoga and yogic principles without actually needing to train people to be yoga teachers. *What do you feel about regulation in our industry? I do truly believe that we are doing good enough work to stand up overall regulation as an industry. Does that mean licensing? I don't know if that is the answer but we certainly can stand up to general oversight as an industry.*We ARE part of the solution of the crisis of public health. Davy could not have said that better. When you are feeling down, please remember that. RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterDavy's Website Brighton Yoga Foundation

Welcome to the first of many conversations on how we keep the Yoga in our yoga businesses. This is a topic that keeps coming up for me as I chat with people and I think Lisa Pearson is the perfect person for this topic.Lisa and I get into our personal practice, running our businesses, and how caring for ourselves and filling our own cups is critical to our work.Take a listen to find out more.KEY TAKEAWAYS*How do we partner the business with the practice of yoga? This is something that I think a lot of us struggle with. But our sadhana, or personal practice, is really important. The reason for this, I believe, is because it reminds us to center ourselves in the yoga first. We have a lot of folks who sort of pull the strings in our industry who are not practitioners first, but we all are. Let's all decide to lean into our practices, utilize the full scope (especially the philosophy), and care for ourselves first so we can care for others. Doing this allows us to model this behavior for our students too.*How do we keep the yoga in our business? Make the yoga part of your business plans. Put yourself in your schedule, and take time for yourself. This IS the yoga. Do what my friend Amy Wheeler has done, and make standards for yourself that guide your principles for teaching, practicing, and being in business. *We want yoga to be a Disney movie. But it isn't. This is so incredibly true, and I am surprised this is probably the first time this has really come up on the podcast. We have this idea that yoga should always feel good, right, aligned, and wholesome. But the truth is yoga, as a practice is hard. And yoga as a business is hard too. These things are not at odds with each other. Sometimes sticking with your yoga practice is difficult. It requires you to unlearn your previous patterns in order to evolve into the fullest version of yourself. That isn't all doe eyes and white knights. It is hard work. (as an unrelated but related note, I do believe we want our organizations to be that white knight in our story. They won't be babes. We didn't design them that way. Love you)*Defining success for yourself is really important. And make sure that you deep dive into whether you are deciding to just be satisfied with whatever you have, vs. deciding what would make you feel successful, cared for, and supported as a yoga professional. And honestly, do this yearly. *Find where you want to serve and get really good at it. Get so good your work is undeniable. RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterLisa's Website

This is our 100th episode of Working In Yoga! Find out a little bit about Rebecca's life since starting the podcast, and what is coming next for Working In Yoga in 2025. RESOURCES Working In Yoga Website Working In Yoga Newsletter

We have some such innovative and intelligent humans in the yoga industry space, and Michele Lawrence is one of them.Michele is one of the original people to advocate for the pause in the 300-hour LHCP, Q-designation, from the International Association of Yoga Therapists. And she and I get into it about what we thought the IAYT was, what we hoped to see from them in the future, and where we hoped to go as a profession. I love that we get the opportunity to talk to people who run schools for yoga therapists, so we can see what they are projecting about our industry in the future.KEY TAKEAWAYS:*It is true, most yoga therapists are not looking at hospital settings first and foremost. Especially in the beginning, when your skillset is building the hospital doesn't often seem like a likely place for us to land. So why is there this focus on getting us into healthcare settings?*Look, it is also undeniable that we seek some legitimacy within our profession. I believe this is because in our cores we know the benefit of our work. And it is normal and human for us to want to be taken seriously for that work. But also…I do think that with that legitimacy leads to us making a living, if not thriving wage. I have said this before–don't conflate those two things. Folks sell foot pics online for a lot of money, but it does not mean that “foot pic salesperson” is a respected profession. Those two things are not necessarily connected.*Portfolio careers are coming up again. The reality of the industry as it stands right now is that you are either privileged to have another non-yoga income (a second job or a spouse, say) or you have to maintain a portfolio career. Yoga therapists, even with our high level of training and experience, are required to do a lot of things. A lot of us still teach yoga classes–I do, as much to test my material as anything, and we also see private clients, write, speak, train, travel, and run other businesses. In order to make a living, many of us have to wear a lot of hats and do a lot of different kinds of work.*OMG someone said it!! There. Is. Enough. Work. For. Us. All. We need to go fight for our work and spread the work amongst us.*The IAYT has a responsibility to the professionals that it allegedly represents. Sort of. Legally speaking, they actually have no responsibility to us, in spite of the fact they collect “membership dues” and have a “membership portal” on their website. While they are walking like a membership organization duck, they are not legally defined that way. Weird, huh? *What does member input in a yoga organization look like to you? Other than the requisite “we are listening” posts and emails–how does an organization *Actually* listen? What are some of your ideas?*If the Q model goes forward, no matter what they call it, we need to call for a different model and organizational leadership to take charge of our industry. Or, maybe we need to call for a real talk about the actual relevance of organizations in our industry. *Testimonials and the progress of your clients makes a difference. Collect those if you can, because the best proof of being good at your job in this industry is when other people love your work well enough to say so, publicly. RESOURCESWorking In Yoga WebsiteWorking In Yoga NewsletterMichele's Website