Podcasts about clergy abuse

AP correspondent Ed Donahue reports on the papal response to clergy sex abuse.

Text: Mark 12:13-44 (Classic Episode) Hosts: J. Kent Edwards Vicki Hitzges Nathan Norman Narrator: Brian French Donate Produced by Nathan James Norman/Untold Podcast Production © 2026 CrossTalk Global

A report on the Boston Archdiocese was made public in 2003, but the investigation into the dioceses of Worcester, Springfield and Fall River has never been released.

Send a textRhode Island Attorney General Peter Neronha joins Bartholomewtown to discuss his office's newly released report detailing decades of child sexual abuse allegations within the Roman Catholic Diocese of Providence.The investigation identified more than 130 alleged abusers and hundreds of victims, with cases spanning generations.Neronha explains how investigators assembled the report, what it reveals about institutional failures inside the Church, and what accountability and reforms may come next.Support the show

Survivors of sexual abuse by clergy members have the chance to share their stories in court this week as the Catholic Diocese of Buffalo's bankruptcy case continues to unfold. Attorney Steve Boyd tells us why the opportunity to speak is so important to survivors.

In this episode, the focus is on clergy abuse—a topic made even more pressing by recent headlines. The featured guest, Sandy Phillips Kirkham, shares her harrowing ordeal of being abused by a charismatic youth pastor starting at the age of 16. Sandy discusses the grooming process, the five years of abuse, and how she was ultimately expelled from her church while her abuser was merely relocated. She delves into the long-lasting impact of the abuse on her life and her spiritual journey, how she concealed her trauma for 27 years, and how she ultimately confronted her abuser. Sandy also provides valuable insights and actionable advice for preventing abuse and supporting victims within church communities. Her story is also detailed in her book, ‘Let Me Prey on You,' which offers a detailed account of her journey from victim to advocate. 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:47 Welcome to the Podcast 01:32 Introducing Today's Topic: Clergy Abuse 02:17 Sandy Phillips Kirkham's Early Life and Church Involvement 06:22 Meeting the Abuser: The Charismatic Youth Pastor 08:43 Red Flags and Grooming Tactics 13:51 The First Inappropriate Act 16:37 The Abuse Escalates 21:06 The Aftermath and Church's Response 28:15 Life After Abuse: Marriage and Keeping Secrets 32:09 Protecting Future Generations 35:17 The Importance of Sex Education in the Church 36:32 Techniques for Discussing Sex with Children 37:22 Personal Experiences with Sex Education 38:20 Triggering Memories and Emotional Breakdown 40:13 The Journey of Healing Begins 41:31 Understanding Clergy Abuse and Self-Forgiveness 43:52 Confronting the Abuser 47:07 Challenges in Seeking Justice 54:47 Preventing Abuse in the Church 01:00:31 Supporting Victims of Clergy Abuse 01:05:07 Final Thoughts and Resources Sandy Kirkham and her husband Bill enjoy life with their two grown children, two beautiful granddaughters, and two fairly well-behaved dogs. Sandy continues to use her voice to help victims of clergy abuse. She currently serves on the board of Council Against Child Abuse. Sandy has spoken before the Ohio Senate, a Maryland court, and appeared on a local television show in Boston. Her story, “Stolen Innocence,” was told in a documentary produced by The Hope of Survivors. Sandy works with survivors conducting victim support conferences. She has participated in The Voice of the Faithful (VOTF) panels moderated by SNAP (Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests), sharing her perspective from the non-Catholic point of view. Sandy has been a presenter/speaker at major events on clergy abuse including the Hope & Healing Conference. Sandy has earned a certificate of completion from the Faith Trust Institute entitled, “A Sacred Trust: Boundary Issues for Clergy and Spiritual Teachers.” https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/ https://www.facebook.com/KirkhamAuthor/  sandykirkhamauthor@gmail.com  Purchase her book “Let Me Prey Upon You” on amazon: https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/shop/let-me-prey-upon-you/   Link Tree   Website: https://dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/   Sandy Phillips Kirkham [00:00:00] Special thanks to 7 5 3 Academy for sponsoring this episode. No matter where you are in your fitness and health journey, they've got you covered. They specialize in helping you exceed your health and fitness goals, whether that is losing body fat, gaining muscle, or nutritional coaching to match your fitness levels. They do it all with a written guarantee for results so you don't waste time and money on a program that doesn't exceed your goals. There are martial arts programs. Specialize in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. They take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works. Sign up for your free class now. It's 7 5 3 academy.com. Find the link in the show notes. Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, [00:01:00] Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Hello. Welcome everyone. Welcome to my regular listeners, as well as some new listeners that have joined us today. I have a great guest for you today. We're going to be talking about clergy abuse today. Religious leader, abuse. Pastor, youth leader. You've seen this in the news recently with all these preachers being arrested or charged with sexual misconduct or rape or [00:02:00] pedophilia. I'm sure you've seen the news. Well, today we're going to hear a story about a woman who's been victimized in that way and she's fighting back. So let me read her bio for you. A church is where an insecure 16-year-old girl should feel welcome, happy, and most importantly, safe tragically. For some, the church can become a place of great harm. Sandy Phillips Kirkham details her account of how charismatic youth minister preyed upon her, a betrayal which left her broken with a shattered faith and the ultimate shame of being blamed enforced from the church she loved. Despite a successful and happy life, is a wife, mother, and friend. Sandy successfully concealed her abuse for [00:03:00] 27 years until a trigger forced her to face the truth. Sandy's story will take you on her journey of healing. Her strength and courage will inspire you. Let me pray upon you her book details. Sandy's journey from innocent 16-year-old, a victim to a survivor, and advocate. We please welcome Sandy Phillips. Kirk, welcome Sandy to the show. Thanks so much for coming on. Well, thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here. Wow. So I've been listening to you on the Preacher Boys podcast and thought you had a really great story, and so I wanted to come and bring you on so my listeners can hear your story as well. Mm-hmm. So tell us a little bit about your home and your church environment growing up. Let's [00:04:00] start from the beginning here. Okay. I'm the oldest of five. My parents were divorced when I was about seven, which that was really the impact of my life, of just how it altered everything about that time in my life. Then my mother remarried and we moved in with my stepfather shortly after my father remarried, and so I was dealing with these blended families and it was just very confusing for me at the time, my parents and stepfather did not attend church. So I, I wasn't a part of a church until I was about eight, and that's when my best friend who lived up the street invited me to go with their family, and I went with them and I went every Sunday after that, I absolutely fell in love with church. It was a place that I felt safe. I think it provided for me a place away from home that I felt comfortable and I got attention there. I was very active even as a small child. I went to vacation Bible school, church camp, love Sunday School. I sang in a junior choir. Really, it was a just a great place for me to [00:05:00] be. When I was 13, I was baptized and then my faith really deepened and my involvement in the church became even more so, started teaching Sunday school and teaching vacation Bible school. I started serving on committees with adults and doing more of the activities that would, , just be more in depth than just typical youth group activities. So, it's just no exaggeration to say that if the doors of the church were open, I was there and I loved it. I loved serving God. I felt that was the place for me, and everything about it was brought me joy and peace in the church. Wow. You really, were very sincere in your faith. It was not a fake one. I hear a lot of stories of. Being brought up in the church and being made to go to church and, you just go through the motions kind of thing. But it sounds like it was the opposite for you. It was that you really believed this with all your heart. Was that a fundamental Baptist church you were going [00:06:00] to or what? It was a church, Christ Christian Church, which is similar to the Baptist. It's an independent church. Yeah, that's the church. That was so something happened while you were serving the Lord and loving God. You met your abuser? Yes. Shortly after I turned 16, our church hired a new youth pastor, and from the moment he arrived, he was totally different than anyone we'd ever seen before. He was very charismatic, very dynamic. His sermons were really like nothing we'd ever heard before, and people were just drawn to him. He had a personality that people found themselves wanting to be around him. They wanted to please him. So he was very good at asking people to do things and they didn't hesitate. It, it was just a different kind of atmosphere. When he came to the church, the youth group exploded in numbers. We went from like 25 to almost 200 in a very short time. Even the [00:07:00] adult church was growing because people just came to hear him preach because he was so good at what he did. He was 30, married with two children, but he really acted more like our age group. He dressed like we did. He. Went to our football games at school, he knew our music. So he just, he really, he was tuned into us and in return we found ourselves, all of us being willing to please him and wanna do anything we could to make the youth group and the church better. So when people think of a profile of a child abuser, they usually think, oh, some dirty old man, that his roaming fingers or what have you, but this youth pastor sounded like, okay, he was really good looking and hip and really loved the young people. Mm-hmm. Is that typical of. Well, it's, it's typical in the sense that it's not the, dirty old man hiding in the bushes. Most abusers [00:08:00] are people we know. They're people that we like. They're usually people that, connect with people very well, and that's what makes them so dangerous because they're not obvious with what they do, and they're very good at that. They pretend to be one of us. They pretend to care, but in reality, their goal is to find a way to take advantage of the most vulnerable in, in the group. And so, predators are usually drawn to places where they will find vulnerable people. The gymnastics team is an example of that. The Boy Scouts, anywhere where you can, and certainly the church because we are welcoming into people who are in need. Oftentimes. Then there are many people in the church who are vulnerable to these types of men, and sometimes women. Were there any red flags? That you should have seen or noticed when you were around this youth pastor? Well, he came with so many different ideas and different ways of doing things. And one of the things that he was doing now, this was in the [00:09:00] seventies, so cultures were changing and it was free love and kind of thing. But he came into our church and he expected everyone to hug each other. So we were always hugging each other. And he also expected us to say how much we loved each other and that we love you and not just that I love you in Christ. He would simply walk up, give you a hug and say, I love you. Now you know, that may seem innocent, but that's a little odd for that pastor to be saying those kinds of things. And it also blurs the lines because when you say to someone, I love you, that can be confusing to. Young teenagers and even to vulnerable adults. So, but he did that with everybody. It wasn't like he picked someone else special, but, so the hugging in the contact was kind of a red flag in the beginning. But for me personally, I babysat for his family. His wife worked evenings. Mm-hmm. So one night after he came home, he asked me to go to his basement and listen to a song by Neil Diamond. [00:10:00] Well, it felt a little weird 'cause I'd never. I've been around a pastor that wanted to talk to me about anything but church in the Bible. But I went to the basement. Yeah. I mean a Neil Diamond song. So I went to the basement. I know, but that's a trigger factor for me sometimes. So anyway, I went to the basement and he put this record on and I sat down on the couch and instead of sitting in a chair or another place, he came on the couch and sat very close to me. And I remember feeling uncomfortable, but I didn't say anything. 'cause I thought, well, he is just sitting next to me. It's no big deal. But that's a red flag that I felt because it felt uncomfortable to me. And then the other times that I would babysit for him. His wife wouldn't come home till late in the evening, so he would come home around seven or eight and after the kids were in bed, instead of taking me home, he wanted me to sit and talk with him all evening. So we'd talk about the Bible or we'd talk about church, and sometimes he'd ask me what I thought of his [00:11:00] sermon, which at age 16, I'm flattered that this man has any idea that I would have some opinion about this great sermon that he just gave. So I didn't see anything wrong with that because he's my pastor. But had that occurred with my 30-year-old neighbor down the street, every time I went to babysit, I know I would've come home to my mother and said, okay, this is weird. Mm-hmm. Every time I babysit, this man wants to sit and talk to me all evening. I mean, what interest would I have as a teenager wanting to talk to this 30-year-old married man? But because my pastor was who he was and he tapped into our common connection of the church and God, and again, many times he would give me books to read 'cause he wanted me to get better in my deep, in my spirituality. So I didn't see anything wrong with it because of who he was. And so I just accepted that behavior, which is another tool and technique. They look for ways to get into you. Mm-hmm. [00:12:00] That don't seem obvious. And that was, so those were two red flags for me. Now as far as the congregation goes, I was in his office a lot by myself, but so were other kids, because he would actually call us into his office and say, I want you to come in and tell me what's going on in your life. Talk to me about your problems. Instead of us going to him, he would encourage us to come into his office. So while that probably wasn't a good thing, no one saw it as a bad thing. It seemed normal, but he called me into his office a lot more than the other kids. And later on there were people who did say to me, there were times when I wondered why he said something to you like that, or I noticed something one time. And so I think people notice some things, but no one thought enough of it to say, okay, there's something going on that doesn't seem right. So those were the red flags that I think in the beginning were very subtle. But they were hard to see, [00:13:00] and this is really important to distinguish these things because I was groomed by a guidance counselor in seventh grade. Mm-hmm. But he was one of those dirty old men that, he was doing creepy stuff. Yeah. But I never would have seen myself. A pastor and he's talking about spiritual things and he's talking about God and mm-hmm. He's not talking about sex. He's not watching, you're not watching dirty movies together. No, he's not, buying you sexy lingerie. It's, Hey, he's doing spiritual things. Mm-hmm. It's a setup. It's that grooming process you're talking about. It's pulling someone in to gain their trust, in a very di diabolical way, because he's using the church to do that. That's really scary. That scares mm-hmm. Scares me to death. What were the first times that he did something really inappropriate that you were just like, whoa? Well, the very [00:14:00] first time, was after a youth group meeting that was held in my home. I was the song leader. He put me in a leadership position, and it was very important to him that the evening always go well and that we were to make people feel welcome. And so at the end of the evening, I was nervous because I wanted to make sure that he thought everything went well. And he came up to me in my hallway and began telling me how great the evening was and how proud he was of me. And I was on Cloud nine. I was flattered that he felt that way. I felt good that the evening went so well. And then he just slowly bent down and he kissed me. And it wasn't, it was a kiss, but it seemed somewhat innocent to some extent. And I, I remember thinking, I think he just kissed me. Then my next thought was, well, he's my pastor and I don't think he would be doing anything he shouldn't be doing. And it was just a quick kiss. And he's always hugging people. And so maybe this is just his way of showing his appreciation for the evening. It was really [00:15:00] the only way in my 16-year-old mind that I could justify it because I couldn't think about this man doing anything he shouldn't be doing. And this was a person that everyone loved and thought so highly of, so how could I think he was doing something he shouldn't be doing? So I just let it go. I didn't think anything more about it. I mean, did you have any sex ed or anything? Did you know the birds and bees? Nine. Well, yeah, I'm 16. I did. Yeah, I did. But I wasn't, I hadn't dated much. I wasn't allowed to date till I was 16, so I hadn't had any dating experience. I had one kiss before this with a boy at camp. So I wasn't. Worldly or knowledgeable about all those things. But, and again, it was such a quick innocent type kiss. He didn't grab me, he didn't push me against the wall. I just, and again, I think for me it was okay if he's, if this is more than just a kiss, then what do I do with it? So therefore I'm just gonna say it's [00:16:00] nothing because I don't know what else to do. Um, wow. I let it go. I let it go. But as I babysat for him, he, sometimes when I would leave, he would kiss me and sometimes he wouldn't. So, I didn't see it as a con, kind of a continual thing that he was always wanting to kiss me. He always hugged me. But the kissing became more intense as it went along. So it, it would be another year, before he would have sex with me. And so that grooming process and kind of pushing the boundaries each time he was with me, finally ended with him having sex with me. Oh, wow. Now, some of us listening are like an adult having sex with a child or 16-year-old. Can you unpack that a little bit more, the process of how he got to that point? I mean, that the first time you had intercourse, I mean, did he, you know, go to a hotel with you and you had a candlelight dinner, or was it in the backseat of the car?[00:17:00] Was it an accident? It wasn't an accident. He was very deliberate and I had every intentions of having sex with me that night. I babysat, I was babysitting, I put the kids to bed, I walked down the steps. I assumed that we would go into the living room. Or the family room, sit on the couch and talk about the things we always talked about. But instead, he stopped me at the bottom of the stairs and he took me into the living room, and immediately put me on the floor and began undressing me. Um, and wow, I froze. I, I literally froze and I kept thinking to myself, he's going to stop. He's going to stop. And that the entire time he's whispering into my ear how much he loves me, that he would never hurt me, and that he can, I can trust him. And then he kept asking me, do you love me? Do you love me? And I, of course, I'm answering yes, because well, yes I do, because that's what I've told him for the past year. I, I, I just, I was so confused and what my real reaction was, I froze. Mm-hmm. Um, he, he sort of pushed my head under the [00:18:00] stereo. And so when he is starting to get farther than I thought he would ever go. I blocked, I just blocked it out and I started reading the serial numbers underneath the stereo. Oh my goodness. Just to be thinking of anything else. Um, at one point he then just picked me up and took me upstairs. He literally put me on the bed, penetrated me, and that was it. And I was horrified. I was absolutely horrified. I, I wanted to cry. I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what to do. Um, he left the room, told me to get dressed, and he would take me home. And I remember sitting on the bed and I put the bedspread around me because I was so embarrassed that I didn't have my clothes on. Mm-hmm. Oh, wow. Um, and then I just remember thinking I just had sex. I'm no longer a virgin. I just had sex with this man and. He took me home. Now, in the [00:19:00] book, of course, I go into a little bit more detail, but Right, he took me home and just before I got outta the car, he said to me, now, you know, this is something between the two of us, you can't tell anyone. And of course I'm thinking, who would I tell? I, I don't want anybody to know. I just did this. So, that was the first time. And then I think I, at that point I kept thinking, you know, I've had sex with him. So now I'm committed to him again. I'm at this point, I'm 17 years old. I'm still like, what do I do with this? I don't, I don't know what to do with this. Um, and he was convincing me that he loved me. He was convincing me that he needed me in his ministry and that God, this was God's will in our lives. He threw that at me. Eventually he would say to me that we were married in God's eyes. I mean, twisting the scripture and using God as a reason that we should be together. And so. I started to accept that. There were a couple times I went to him and told him that I couldn't do this anymore. I felt [00:20:00] guilty. He would respond in one of two ways. One, he would say to me how much he needed me, how much he loved me, and that he couldn't live without me. So that was the guilt part of it. Or he would respond and by saying to me, you know, you're no longer a virgin. No one else is gonna want you. I'm the only one that knows how to love you, and you are committed to me, and this is gonna be the way it is. And I saw no way out. I didn't see a way out. And so the relationship continued for five years. Wow. Five years. It went on for five years. That is a long time. And it, during that time, he became more aggressive physically. Uh, he hit me. He became sexually more deviant. It just progressed. It got worse and worse. And to a point that I finally, I was, my self-esteem was so low. I hated myself for what I'd been doing. So I finally just accepted that this was my life. I knew [00:21:00] I'd never get married. I knew I'd never have children, and this wouldn't be over until he said it was over. This went on for five years and nobody in the church noticed it. Your parents didn't notice it. You know, people say, well, where were your parents? Well, first of all, my parents were thrilled. I was in church. I mean, this was a time in the seventies when drugs were. Prevalent girls were, having free sex. So for them, what safer place could there be than to be in church? So, and they saw his intention toward me and his involvement with me as a good thing. I mean, he would take me on hospital visits with him. I mean, they saw this as being positive. And they knew how much I loved being there and that it was a place that I liked to go. So they didn't see it. And many in the church didn't see it began because who suspects the pastor of such behavior. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And especially in the seventies when this wasn't an open topic like it is now, you wouldn't have dared thought anything like that. And so [00:22:00] it's not uncommon for people in the church, to miss the signs and to ignore what they really do see, because they just can't believe that it would be something that would be happening in their church because then they'd have to do something about it. Yes, exactly. When did it all come crumbling down? It does crumble. Eventually it does. Two elders became suspicious and followed him one night and found us together in a hotel room. And then from then on, the next month and a half was an absolute nightmare for me. Hmm. It was initially hoped that they could keep what he had done, quiet and keep it from the congregation. Now, I have to say one thing before I forget. This wasn't his first incident of sexual misconduct. Oh. Prior to and just after he was awri, he arrived at our church. A young woman from his first church came forward and accused him of sexual misconduct. When he was [00:23:00] confronted by my elders, he didn't deny it. He said it was true. He asked for forgiveness, that it would never happen again. It was a mistake. So within six months. That's when he was kissing me in my hallway. So this, so these elders were aware that this was the second time that there had been an incident with this man of sexual abuse and misconduct. But in spite of that, they tried to keep it quiet in hopes of moving him to another church. And so I was told during that time where I was to sit, how I was to respond to questions. I wasn't to talk to anyone. I wasn't to tell anyone about what had happened, including my parents. And this was all in an effort to keep it quiet. Well, that effort failed. And so it was determined that he should address the congregation. He did it in a very vague way, just simply said that he'd sinned. He'd sinned against God, and he'd sinned against his wife. And that was his confession. That was it. Two days later, he had me meet [00:24:00] him in a hotel room after that confession in front of the congregation. Now. He was moved to the next church. He was given a going away party. There was actually a vote to maybe keep him, but the vote failed and they decided to move him to the next church. About, two weeks, three weeks later, I was called in by the elders, and this is probably the hardest part of my story for me. Mm-hmm. I was called in by the elders and I was told that because of my behavior I was to leave the church. I was devastated. I loved that church. It was the only church I knew, and here I was being told by these two elders that I wasn't fit to worship there any longer. Mm-hmm. He could be forgiven and given a second, third chance. I couldn't be, I was told that to leave the church. I wasn't given any counseling. I wasn't helped in any way. I was simply told to leave and I did. I left. [00:25:00] And that I told people many times, as horrific as the abuse was, having been told to leave, that church had a greater impact on me spiritually than the actual abuse did. I don't think I ever recovered from that. It still haunts me to this day to some extent. That response of the church really devastated me. So that was the crumbling, as you called it? It came crashing down and I would, I left the church. So did that change your perception of God? What was your relationship with God this time? Yes. You were kicked outta the church, but. Well, I felt a disconnect from God. I never blamed God. I never felt like God caused this to happen. I, in fact, I carry the blame and the shame. I felt guilty for what I had done. And so I never blamed God, but because of the relationship being tied in with God and the [00:26:00] prayers that this man would give, and then, you know, he'd give these wonderful sermons about marriage and sanctity of marriage on a Sunday morning after having sex with me the night before. I had difficulty separating all of that, and there were so many trigger factors associated with the church and prayer that God really did. It was hard for me to have any kind of relationship with God. I did. I didn't become an atheist like a lot of victims do, and who become angry at God. I simply just. I just put him on the back burner. I knew he existed, but I didn't have a connection with him any longer. So for 27 years, I, I never prayed. I never opened my Bible. I went to church because when I met my husband, he was a Methodist. And I thought, well, I'll go to the Methodist Church. It's a different denomination. Mm-hmm. I'll just go on. It should be fine. It didn't work that way. I had anxiety attacks in church. I, his [00:27:00] reminders of him were constant, but I forced myself to go. I made sure that I went because I knew when we had children, I wanted them to have that church experience. But every time I walked past the minister's office, I got a knot in my stomach. Oh yeah. It had nothing to do with that minister. But you understand that. I mean, it, but I did that for 27 years. It became my norm. I just knew that when I walked past that office, I was gonna get a knock my stomach, certain hymns. I can tell you what his favorite hymn was, and every time that was played, that's who I thought of. I couldn't pray. It was so, I did have a deep, deep disconnect for 27 years, and I have to tell you, I missed it. I actually mourn that loss of my spiritual life, but I didn't know how to get it back. Because I'm keeping this secret. I'm still carrying guilt and shame. I couldn't forgive myself. I didn't feel worthy to be in church. So with all of that mixed in, I just put myself on autopilot and said, [00:28:00] well, this is the way my life will be and I'll just have to accept it. It just sounds so unfair. Somebody that loves the Lord so much and served in the church and so innocent and being kicked out. Oh, but it sounded like maybe meeting your husband would've been a positive thing for you. How did you guys meet? I actually worked at his office, so I met him there. We dated for about two years, and I just found him to be a kind, loving soul. He was very unassuming. He wasn't arrogant. He didn't, he wasn't a boastful type of person. He didn't like taking credit for things, even though he deserved it sometimes. He was just a good hearted person, and I just, I fell in love with him immediately. I really did. I thought this was a great, great guy. I mean, I will tell you, I have said many times because before I met him, I was on a destructive path. I did not have any self-esteem. [00:29:00] I saw myself just simply as some sex object that, I was only good for that. And so when I met him, he saved my life because he loved me for who I was and showed me that I was worthy. So I've often said to him, you saved my life, and he will respond back with you made mine, and you can't get any better than that. So meeting him was a turning point for me, but I kept a secret from him for 27 years, and I lived in fear that he'd always find out that I'd had this affair with a married man. And I know in my heart that it wouldn't have made a difference to him. But people who've been abused never forget the words, don't ever tell. And I never forgot those words. And I never forgot what the consequences could be if I were to tell someone. Because when my elders found out, they blamed me. And I, I couldn't bear the thought that if I were to tell him. [00:30:00] Somehow he would find fault with me, or I wondered, would he wonder why I didn't feel confident enough to tell him? Would he feel betrayed that I kept a secret? Would he see me differently sexually? All those fears that I had while unfounded were still present in my mind. And so I never could tell him. And I had to do a lot of play acting and pretending, through our married life in the sense that the times I was having trigger factors, I had to hide them. And I know he would've been supportive, but I couldn't see that. Because while trauma affects you at the time of the abuse, it's lifelong. It doesn't leave you. And so I lived with that for 27 years. So did you have. Intimacy issues when you were together? Was that what you're talking about? The triggering? No, I, know a lot of victims do, and that's understandable. I really didn't, because he was so different from my abuser [00:31:00] and I recognized that my abuser was emotionally violent mm-hmm. And physically, he just wasn't loving in any sense of the word. I was simply used for sex. Mm-hmm. And I didn't have that with my husband. And so I could separate that a little bit. But I think the guilt of hiding the secret had an impact on our marriage as far as my able to be intimate with him in an emotional way. I'm really glad to hear that. I, you are not the first person that I've heard that. The victim has hidden a secret from her husband. I passed her and a pastor's wife and her husband did not know. Mm-hmm. Children didn't know, and it was a family member that was the abuser. And I kept telling her, you've got to tell him. Mm-hmm. You know why? It's because, and I was thinking this when I was listening to your, the other shows that you were on. I'm thinking about your children and your grandchildren. If I was abused, [00:32:00] I would be like. How do I keep my children and grandchildren from going through what I just went through, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, that's an interesting thing because most people would assume that my daughter, I would've been all over it and worried sick every time she left the house. Yeah. But I actually had the opposite, reaction because keep in mind, I didn't see myself as an abuse victim. I saw myself as someone who participated, who willingly went into this relationship and stayed in it willingly, which is not the case when you're abused. There's the control, the manipulation, all of those things that play into keeping a victim in a relationship and they see no way out. So for me, I just assumed I got one bad apple in the whole barrel, that this didn't happen to other people and that I had an affair. But my daughter, who I knew, she would never have an affair with a married man, I just knew that. So I. Sent her on [00:33:00] retreats. I sent her to church camp without fear because again, I'm thinking, okay, this just doesn't happen to other people and this is not something I need to be concerned about with her. However, with my granddaughters, it's totally different because now I understand what really occurred and the damage that can occur when you've been abused. And so with my granddaughters, her mom and dad have talked to them, about good touch, bad touch. And I too have talked about to her, but I've been a little bit more probably detailed about it. Mm-hmm. And as she gets older, these men, the techniques change as you get older and they, after they go after teenage girls, so mm-hmm. Hopefully I'll be able to help her understand, what happens when someone's grooming. I want her to understand her personal space, that if you're not comfortable when someone hugs you, it's okay. That's right. Say I, I don't want you to touch me that way. Mm-hmm. Or say if they don't feel comfortable and we put a lot on kids to do that. 'cause here [00:34:00] we're asking a child to say to an adult, no. Mm-hmm. So it's okay to go to your mother or your mom and say, can you tell so and so Uncle Jimmy or whoever it is, I don't wanna be hugged. So we need to make sure our kids understand that their personal space is their space. And if they don't want someone in that space, it's okay to say no. I also think it's important to tell kids that good people can do bad things. Yeah. Because, as we talked about earlier, our abusers are not strangers. They're not mean people. Mm-hmm. They're usually good people. They're usually people who've given us gifts. They're people who help us. They're people who tell us how wonderful we are. So it's hard for children, even adults, to see this individual who. Who on one side is a good individual who does a lot in the church, who's done all these wonderful things. And so we, we have to tell these kids, just because they're a good person doesn't mean they can't do bad things. And so that's kind of the message I hope to get to my granddaughters that I didn't give to my [00:35:00] daughter. And fortunately she didn't have any issues with church or any, anybody abusing her. But I certainly did not, guide her in the right way in that sense because I just, like I said, I just assumed that I was the only one that this would ever have happened to. Well, I think, I hear a lot in the church that they don't teach sex ed because they don't want the kids to go out and have sex. Mm-hmm. And so a lot of these kids are like ignorant as to, what is healthy and what is not proper, yeah. We need to teach 'em that our bodies or are going to respond. They were built that way. God intended us to have feelings. You know, when we are around the opposite sex, that's normal. Mm-hmm. So we need to make sure kids understand. But there are barriers and there are boundaries that need to be taken. But you're absolutely right when we don't talk at it, then we figure it out on their own. And we could, we can all imagine when you're leaving teenagers to [00:36:00] their own devices to figure out things. That's probably not gonna lead in a good spot. No, we have the internet now, which when we, right. When you and I were younger, we didn't have the internet. We didn't have cell phones. No. If you wanted a Playboy magazine, you had to go to that kind of a neighborhood to get something. Yes. You know? Yes. It was a lot more difficult. Yes, absolutely. But too many parents are embarrassed to talk to their children about sex and, you know, everybody listening needs to listen. You need to find a way to talk to them about these things. And one of the techniques that I use with my daughter, just in talking about sex in general, kids don't want to hear their mom and dad talk to 'em about this. So what I did would say, I read a magazine article about this girl who did such and such so that I put it off on something else that's, a non-entity of a person. And I'll say, or Have you ever heard of this? And of course I know she's got a little embarrassed, but I, it opened the dialogue without me coming [00:37:00] out and saying, have you heard of oral sex? Instead, I would talk to her and say, I heard this about this. This is what kids are doing, blah, blah, blah. So you kind of have to find techniques and ways to sneak around it sometimes, but you absolutely need to talk to, because they know it's out there and they're going to experiment. That's just part of being a teenager. Yeah, my parents chickened out. They just gave me a book to read. Same, probably the same book. I got, I forget what it was called. Where did I come from? Or something. It was a cartoon book. Mm-hmm. And I'm grateful for that. And, they just, after I finished the book, do you have any questions? Yeah, yeah. I had a lot of, older people that were friends and I would actually go to my older. Senior citizen friends and ask them questions rather than ask my parents. Right? Yeah, yeah. It's more comfortable that way for sure. Like I said, it's not the topic that we like to talk to with our kids and our kids don't wanna hear it, but being uncomfortable is not an excuse not to do that. And in school you get [00:38:00] the basics of the mechanics of it, but then that ends, that's all you get there as well. And that's not as helpful either. Yeah. The sixth grade menstrual cycle, health class. Yeah, exactly. That's it. They separate the girls and the boys. Yeah. We were all really embarrassed and Yes, yes. Yeah, exactly. Great information. So let's, circle around back to, okay, you've been hiding this secret forever. Mm-hmm. And nobody knows about your past. And then one day you got triggered. So what happened that day? Well, that's the first chapter of my book, and that is one day I was driving to a golf tournament in Tennessee. We live in Cincinnati. I was driving, my daughter was in college. She was playing in a golf tournament. I was driving down there and I was about halfway when I saw an exit sign for the town of Kingsport, Tennessee. And that is the. Town to which my [00:39:00] abuser was sent after he left our church, and it just sent me over the edge. Mm-hmm. All of a sudden I'm thinking, I'm in the town where he lives. Am I close to his house? Am I close to the church where he's now a minister? I mean, even though it'd been 27 years, I thought he was probably still there. I didn't know, but that's what my mind was telling me. I, all of a sudden I felt his presence in the car. I, I could smell him. I could hear him. Oh. I was, it was unbelievable to me what was happening to me. I didn't even know what was happening. I pulled to the side of the road Oh, good. And I sobbed. Yeah. I sobbed for about 20 minutes and I was just trying to figure out what was happening because anytime I had trigger factors before I could manage them, I could control them. I kind of let them happen and then I push 'em back down. Mm-hmm. This one wasn't going back down and I was a mess. I was just an absolute mess. I was able to get through the weekend. I drove back home and all I could think about was, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? [00:40:00] I wanted to stop thinking about him and I couldn't. I spent the next two weeks, really in anxiety. I, my husband would leave for work and I would just walk around the house, wring my hands, trying to figure out why I was feeling the way I was feeling. What was I gonna do with these feelings till at one point I finally decided I was gonna tell my best friend, and I was absolutely petrified to tell her because for the first time in 27 years, I was going to utter the words. I was sexually abused by my youth pastor. And I remember thinking, he's gonna find out and I'm gonna get in trouble. I just, I was 49 years old and I'm still afraid of this man. But I did tell her, it was, it took me a long time to, to get the words out, but I did, she was very supportive. She was very kind. She was patient as she waited for me to tell her. And so that started my journey of healing just by telling that first person. I then told two or three other of my close friends, so the four of us spent [00:41:00] many days and many hours on the screened in porch of one of my friends just letting me talk. Mm-hmm. And being able to express what had happened to me. I wasn't ready to tell all of the story. I mean, there's parts in the book that I won't go into here because they're pretty mm-hmm. Embarrassing and some things that I did. So I wasn't ready to tell them everything, but I told them enough that it helped me start to release what had been done to me. And so that was the first thing that I did, I think. And then the next thing I did, which was so valuable, and I encouraged victims to do it as well, I just read everything I could on clergy abuse or sexual abuse in itself. So I began to learn the terms of grooming, manipulation, gaslighting, and then I could see how he methodically used each one of those things on me to get me to do the things he got me to do, and to stay in that relationship for those five years. And that was huge for me. So [00:42:00] it was, for the first time as I began reading, I understood that I had been abused. Now, it still took me a while to admit that I really was sexually abused because I didn't want that label. I didn't wanna be an abuse victim. And there was a part of me. We all wanna be loved. And so there was still a part of me that I wanted to think that there was some part of him that cared about me, that this wasn't just purely about sex and that he wasn't just using me for his own gratification. And I had to get past that. I had to finally come to terms with, no, this man didn't do the no one who loves you, would do the things he did and ask the things he did of me. So that took me a while, to finally admit, okay, this was an abusive relationship. So I told someone, educating myself, and then I had to learn to forgive myself. I had to let, I had to let go of the guilt [00:43:00] and shame because any guilt and shame belongs squarely on him. This was a man that I should have been able to trust. It was in a place that should have been the safest place on earth for me. And he took advantage of a vulnerable teenager who had, I didn't have a major crisis in my life, but he knew my home life was an upheaval at times. He knew that I didn't see my dad very much. So he used that to against me. And I had to forgive myself for being who I was at the time and being able to respond the way I did for the coping skills I had at the time. Sure. You can look back. I, and I think, why didn't I say this? Why didn't I do that? But I couldn't because of, of the re of the relationship he had created between us. Mm-hmm. I had lost all power. He was in complete control of this relationship, so I had to forgive myself and that wasn't easy either. Then, and I don't know that this is something all victims should do, but I just felt this need [00:44:00] that I needed to confront him. I just felt like I couldn't move past this unless I was able to face him. Now, I had no contact with him for 27 years. I didn't even know if he was still alive, but I hired a private investigator and he found him ministering in a church in Alabama. And so I had my investigator contact him and we set up a time and a meeting that we would meet. And I took my husband, I took my friend who was a counselor and another friend who was at the church at the time. Um, I wanted her at this point. You told your husband at this point, I'm sorry. Yes, that's correct. I, it was probably three months after I told my friends, that I said to him I would like to meet him in his office and talked to him about something and. I was terrified. I don't know how else to say it. I just was so afraid. Not that I needed to be, but I was. And I probably sat there for almost, [00:45:00] I would say, 40 minutes and just cried. I was able to finally get out. I'm okay, the kids are okay, and then I started crying again. He couldn't have been any more supportive, more loving. I remember looking at his face and I said I was sexually abused by my youth pastor, and he didn't. His expression didn't change, and then I said. I was their babysitter and his face just dropped. And for the first time, I could see the pain I was feeling was reflected in his face. It was, I almost wanted to hug him to say, I'm sorry. 'cause I could see how much it hurt him to know that this had been done to me, especially as a baby. I mean, the picture became complete for him once I said that. And so he was very supportive. I think he was worried about me confronting this man, for a couple reasons. But one, I think he was worried that I would be disappointed in his reaction, and that I would be expecting too much of this [00:46:00] person to understand what he did to me and show any kind of remorse, and that I, it would hurt me even more. And one of my fears was that, I was afraid he wouldn't meet me. I was afraid that he was gonna say, no, I'm not gonna meet with you. And my husband said, oh, he's gonna meet with you all right? Because if he doesn't meet with you, you just tell him. Call the church secretary. We'll call every elder. We're gonna, he, somebody's gonna hear your story if he doesn't want to hear it. So he did agree to meet with me. I went down to Alabama and the meeting took place and I said the things that I wanted to say to him. I wanted him to get what he did to me. But he didn't, he never could understand the damage. It was almost as if, okay, I shouldn't have done it and I'm sorry I did it. Okay, now what do you want? It was, get away. You bother me? Yes. And his greatest fear as most narcissist, and I believe he was, narcissistic, but his greatest fear was that I was going to demand that he be removed from the ministry. I mean, that's what he [00:47:00] was most concerned about, how this was going to impact him. And he should have been out of the ministry. So I went to his. Boss. I was told this, and something happened 27 years ago. He, we think he's safe. We're not worried, in spite of the fact that during the meeting he had admitted that there had been multiple occurrences of sexual misconduct throughout his ministry. Not all teenagers, some were most were probably women. And then he said he had gone to therapy because he had been identified as a sexual addict. And I kept thinking, who, what? What world, what world? Does this make sense that a man who has been identified by a psychologist as a sex addict belongs in the ministry? Nope. But here was this church. So I sent a letter to his 11 elders thinking, okay, somebody in this eldership is gonna see this. Is I something's wrong here. Not one responded totally [00:48:00] ignored me. 11 elders totally ignored me. Wow. No worries. So then, I decided to go to his denominational leaders, which were in Indianapolis. And there again, while they were sympathetic to my story and apologize that it happened, they said, we're an independent church. Our churches hire and fire their own ministers. We have no control and if they choose to keep this man, we can do nothing about it. And so what, I was shut down and basically I had no place else to go. I had pretty much. Done everything I could do. And it wasn't my place in the man that he be removed. I expected the church to be, the church was to do the right thing. Exactly. I assumed so naively that once they heard my story and once they understood the background of this man, surely someone would say, this isn't right. But again, keep in mind he's very charismatic. He brings in [00:49:00] people, he brings in money. And to be fair, and probably I'm being a little too gracious, these men are very good at manipulating not only the victim but the congregation as well. They're very good at getting control of the congregation so that they find themselves following this man no matter what he would do. Yeah. And that's basically what happened. There was going to be, I got a four page letter from his boss telling me that, know, I'm going to. Ruin this church if I continue on this path and that I'm going to feel all this guilt because I'm gonna be responsible for the damage that I will do to pe people's spiritual lives. I mean that, it was an incredible, I put the letter in the book, I, because it is so incredibly, hard to believe that someone write that to a victim of abuse. Just So that was What year did that happen? 2004. Okay. So we did have. We did have the internet. Oh, yes. And this was after the Catholic, [00:50:00] church had their, exposure of sexual abuse within their church. So yes, this was, it was out there for sure. This wasn't something that you would think, oh, I can't believe this happened. And again, he had admitted to these past instances. I mean, this wasn't someone who was saying, oh, I don't know what she's talking about. Or, oh, this is the only time it ever happened. He had been in therapy because he was a sexual addict, So he wasn't registered as a sex offender? I guess not. And in my case, at the time of the abuse, the age of consent was 16. So I had no legal recourse because of I was either legally age of consent. Now that has been changed in Ohio. It's now 18. It's now 18, but many states it's still 16. There are several states where the age of consent is 16. Now, the interesting about that is. His contact sexual contact with me was not considered a crime. However, if he had been my high school teacher, it would've been a crime. What, so pastors I know [00:51:00] does not make sense. It does not make a leg of sense. No, it does not. So it, they don't consider him a teacher. They don't cons, they don't, they considered an affair. A mutual. Relationship if he'd been my teacher, that's a different story. So yeah, I had no legal recourse. And that was frustrating. But I couldn't change that. So it was what it was. I just had to accept that he, yes, he belonged in jail. Yes, there's no doubt and should be registered as a sex offender, but I'm not so sure that even if he's registered as a sex offender, these people in Alabama and wherever he is now, would. Even take that as a concern. Well, you know, the millennials now, they'll just, they just post stuff on Facebook and Twitter and call the evening news and they have, yes. News people at their doorstep, right. Ready to mm-hmm. Track this guy's name through the mud. Mm-hmm. But you didn't choose to do that, I guess. No, you know, I'm very careful about naming him in the sense that, part of my story is that I [00:52:00] reconnected with his wife. She actually divorced him after they moved, because again, he committed sexual misconduct. She was 20, I think, at the time, so it wasn't a minor, but that's beside the point. This is a man in a position that, a professional who does not cross boundaries like that. So, to no one surprise, he committed sexual misconduct the third time, so she divorced him. And part of, I guess letting go of some of the guilt that I felt, I wanted to. Connect with her to at least tell her, not that I was responsible for what happened, but how very sorry I was for her pain and suffering as well because she was part of the youth group. I mean, she was there at the church all the time. We sang in the choir together. So it was like I had a relationship with her. Oh wow. To some extent. And of course when, we were found, when he was found out by the elders, she was upset and she of course, didn't wanna have anything to do with me, which is understandable. So I actually think I [00:53:00] also wanted to give her the opportunity to say whatever she felt she needed to say to me if she wanted to. I mean, I didn't know what she was gonna say or react. I thought maybe she'd hang up on me. I didn't know. So I called her one day. My investigator found her phone number and gave it to me, and she couldn't have been any more gracious. I, she never blamed me. She understood as she, as the years went on, what this really was just like I did. She's remarried. She's has a wonderful husband now. And so I visited her several times. We keep in contact. And so part of my not wanting to expose him too much is that it would be hurtful to her. And he does have children. Now. I know that, well, whatever consequences are as a result of this are all on him, but I don't feel the need to add to that. That's not my purpose in speaking out. And so, mm-hmm. I've gone to his church leaders, I've done everything I can to get him removed from the ministry. And nothing, it's just [00:54:00] he's still, I don't know that he's still a pastor, but he still remains in good standing within that denomination to this day. Yeah. I mean, sometimes we have to just let God. Right. Dish out the justice. It may not be in our timeline, it may not be the way that we think it should happen, but Right. He's not gonna get away with this. No. And again, I did my part. Yes. So my conscience is clear and I am able to say I did what I could do and whether or not they removed him, I certainly hope that I maybe put some doubt in some of their minds and maybe questioned their motives in keeping this man. I don't know. But, I feel I did what I could do and I feel good about that. I feel good about that. Absolutely, you should. And what I'm really interested in is, you're trying to keep this stuff from happening to other people, so, I mean, what can we do to prevent some of this stuff? Well, it's [00:55:00] difficult again, because these men are among us as wolves in sheep's clothing, and so they're difficult to spot. But a couple things. I think the first thing I would tell people is if something doesn't seem right. Keep your antenna up. Don't just ignore it or just don't think, oh, well that can't be true because he's the pastor. Mm-hmm. If it's behavior that you wouldn't accept in someone else, or it's something that you would question in someone else, then question it in the pastor or the choir director, whoever it is. Don't be blinded by the person. The persona that they're presenting to you. So that's the first thing I would say is keep your antenna up. The other thing is we, and we're churches, I think are doing better about this, but you've got to have policies in place that say, no, you're not taking a 16-year-old girl on your hospital visit with you. Yes. That's, that's not normal. That's not right. What is she doing going on a hospital visit with you in a car? And of course now we have the texting [00:56:00] and there should be absolutely no texting between a pastor, a youth minister, and anyone in the congregation. And that includes, no, don't forget the meeting for the church luncheon. No, there should be no texting because you, it's too hidden and it's too easily moved to the next step. And that's how it starts. You know, all of the abuse when it's someone you know, it always starts with small things and subtle things. It doesn't, innocent things. Innocent things that, yeah, that, that are innocent. But so that's why, so no texting. Yeah. So put in the policy, those places of, when you take a 10-year-old child to the bathroom, you make sure there's another adult with you. Absolutely. That's for your safety as well as for the child's safety. Mm-hmm. So I, I think we need to be aware. And then I would also say watch for the vulnerable in your, among your church or your group. Watch for the kid that's got issues at home and is looking for a father figure. Be aware that they're going to be more susceptible to someone who's a predator and pay [00:57:00] attention to their cues and kind of keep in touch with them as well in a sense of asking questions and how they're doing and be the kind of a person that they might feel comfortable coming to if something were to happen to them because they're the ones that are gonna be most vulnerable, to a predator. So that's kind of, an overview of what. Maybe a help to try and stop and prevent some of this. Yes, I like lots of video cameras. They're cheap now. You can put a camera, you can hide cameras all over the church facility and Yes. And I think too, talking to this about this issue to the congregation before anything happens, maybe having a person in your congregation who is the go-to person on this topic, who, who's researched what all these grooming and manipulation is so that they are even more equipped to, to notice the signs. So you have a person who's kind of in charge of that topic and then address it to the congregation once a year and say, here's our policy and here's what we expect of our pastors and here's what we would hope you would [00:58:00] do if you notice something. So it just brings it out so that people feel like if there is something that they know is going on or something's wrong, they feel comfortable going to someone about it. Those are all really great tips for leaders and, church members. So what, what if I am listening and I am being subjected to some of this stuff, what should I do? Well, what you need to do and what is the hardest thing to do is to tell someone. Yeah. And it's hard to do because when you're in an abusive relationship, you are being controlled by your abuser. And the narrative is what he is directing. And so he's going to tell you, look, you can tell anybody you want. They're not gonna believe you. And he tells you that over and over again. He's also going to tell you that you are going to be in trouble if you tell anyone. And then there's that problem of you sort [00:59:00] of care about this person. Here's someone that has been helping you, who's been your mentor, and you don't wanna get him in trouble. So with all those dynamics involved, it's very difficult for victims to come forward. But I am telling you, you don't wanna wait the 27 years that I did no. And live with this guilt and the shame and the angst and the anxiety. First of all, it's not worth it. You're not doing anyone any favors, especially yourself, because there is help out there. But they can only help you if you're able to be able to tell someone. And believe me, I understand how difficult that is. It's not easy. Mm-hmm. But I would hope that I hearing my story and others that you will understand that there is help out there and you need to tell someone. 'cause it won't end until you tell someone. And if you need to, you go to someone that you trust. And if you need to, you go outside the church. Yes. You tell someone you know is going to listen to you. [01:00:00] Hey, I tell my listeners, you can call me anytime mm-hmm. And email me and I'm sure you'd say the same thing. Exactly. Reach out to Sandy if mm-hmm. You need somebody to talk to. Mm-hmm. Or you don't know what is the next step I need to take here? Right. It is scary to make First step. It's very scary. Very scary. Absolutely. So then there's the rest of us, those that have not experienced clergy abuse, maybe we're members in the church, maybe we're friends or family. What are some helpful things for us to do to support a victim? Helpful things to say, maybe there's things we shouldn't say, well, that's a yes. First, I would say anytime you're aware of a victim of clergy abuse or anybody who's been abused, whether it's clergy or not, reiterate to that victim that it was not their fault and that there was nothing they could have done, should have done that would've prevented this. And by doing that, you are [01:01:00] telling that person they're free to speak to you. And victims need to hear it over and over again because we do blame ourselves. Children as young as five will blame themselves because they allowed someone to touch them 'cause mommy said not to. And the that guilt in that shame that victims carry, it's difficult to let go of it. So to hear someone say to us, it's not your fault is so freeing. So that's the first thing. The second thing I would say is. Let them know that you will listen to them without judging them, and you will hear their story without being shocked that you are able to say, tell me everything you need to tell me, or Tell me as little as you wanna tell me. Give them a comfort place to go to talk. And then I would say, and this is difficult for people who have spiritual lives or who are part of the church, be very much aware that things such as prayer and Bible reading and [01:02:00] scripture can be very triggering for those who've been abused in the church. Mm-hmm. So things that you would find comforting like prayer. Can be a very major trigger factor for victims. And so instead of saying to a victim, I'll pray for you, or Can I pray with you? The best thing you could say would be to phrase it in such a way as to say, I understand because of what you've been through, prayer can be difficult. And so I would like to pray for you, but I would completely understand if you don't want to pray or you won't, don't even want me to pray for you. And so you've opened up the door to say to this person, wow, I don't have to feel guilty because I can't pray. You know, when we've grown up in the church and we've been told how wonderful church and prayer and all those things are, we still carry that guilt too because we're no longer connected to God. So to have a person on the outside. Recognize that these can be trigger factors is again, a gift. It's a [01:03:00] gift. So those things I think would be the most helpful when dealing with a person of clergy abuse. And give them time. Don't push forgiveness. Don't push trying to get them back into church. 'cause some victims will never be able to go back to church if you let them find their own pace of time and you do it without judging them. And I know that's kind of hard sometimes for Christians and people in the church because we love the church and we find it to be such a wonderful place and we want this person back in the church. Yes. But it, it may not be the best place at that point for that victim. Such valuable advice. I That is awesome. And again, back to like, when you're talking about the sex education, open up the dialogue, you know? Yeah. Bring it up. Bring it up before they bring it up. Again, I read in the newspaper that this girl was molested by, a gym teacher. You know that, that ha I know that happens. And then let 'em know that if. It is, like you said, allowing that comfort to be able to [01:04:00] talk to someone. I think for me it was important to give my side of the story. No one had a clue that he was emotionally and verbally and physically abusive to me. They saw this as a little love affair and that we had this, magic little love affair. Evil temptress. Yes, exactly. And so I wanted them to know the full story. That was important for my healing too. And they did that. And, they welcomed me back to the church. I went back, I've been back a couple times for, a youth group reunion that we had. So, and that was difficult. But again, I thought that was necessary for me to move forward. I had to let go of my past. I had to figure out, not to forget it, but how was I going to incorpo

After years of negotiations, New Orleans' Catholic church administration and clerical sex abuse victims have come to an agreement. The AP's Jennifer King reports.

On today's episode: Judge orders the release of an immigrant with ties to White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt. Indiana Senate committee advance redistricting legislation backed by Trump toward final floor vote. ICE arrests of Afghans are on the rise in the wake of National Guard attack, immigration lawyers say. Zelenskyy refuses to cede land to Russia as he rallies European support. Court settlement approved for New Orleans Archdiocese to pay hundreds of clergy abuse victims. Trump says survivors of scrutinized US strike were trying to right boat before 2nd missile was fired. The Supreme Court seems likely to back Trump's power to fire independent agency board members. Trump is proposing a $12B farm aid package to soften blow of his tariffs, White House official says. Zelenskyy holds talks in London with European allies on US peace plan and security. ICEBlock app maker sues Trump administration over its pressure on Apple to remove app. 'One Battle After Another' leads Golden Globe nominations, while 'Wicked For Good' falters. Paramount goes hostile in bid for Warner Bros., challenging a $72 billion bid by Netflix. Court clerk who helped with Alex Murdaugh's trial pleads guilty to showing sealed exhibits. Wall Street pulls back from its record heights. A long Chargers field goal and a star’s five-turnover night doom the Eagles on Monday Night Football, a season-ending injury is confirmed for an NFL quarterback, a surprise tryout for a retired QB, the Heisman finalists are announced, an NBA star pleads not guilty to gambling charges and AP Top 25 college hoops poll updates. A person of interest is in custody in connection with the shooting of New York Jets' Kris Boyd. Chinese premier cites damage from US tariffs, as China's surplus surpasses $1 trillion. Cambodia vows fierce fight against Thailand in escalating border conflict. Powerful wave kills 4 and leaves 1 missing at a popular seawater pool in Spain's Tenerife. Magnitude 7.5 quake in northern Japan injures 23 people and triggers a tsunami. Louvre workers announce strike over work conditions and security after $102M heist. Magnitude 7.6 quake triggers a tsunami on Japan's northern coast. Zelenskyy holds talks in London with European allies on US peace plan and security. As tensions flare on Israel-Lebanon border, war-torn communities struggle to rebuild. As tensions flare on Israel-Lebanon border, war-torn communities struggle to rebuild. 100 schoolchildren abducted in Nigeria are released; more still being held. —The Associated Press About this program Host Terry Lipshetz is managing editor of the national newsroom for Lee Enterprises. Besides producing the daily Hot off the Wire news podcast, Terry conducts periodic interviews for this Behind the Headlines program, co-hosts the Streamed & Screened movies and television program and is the former producer of Across the Sky, a podcast dedicated to weather and climate. Theme music The News Tonight, used under license from Soundstripe. YouTube clearance: ZR2MOTROGI4XAHRX

October 5th Sermon

Clergy abuse survivors will be able to vote on a proposed settlement with the archdiocese after a judge's ruling last week. We'll get the latest from Stephanie Riegel, a business writer for the Times Picayune/NOLA.com

Buffalo Catholic Diocese COO Rick Suchan and CFO Al Gress address the clergy abuse settlement and moving the Diocese forward after the settlement full 1038 Thu, 19 Jun 2025 08:30:00 +0000 k4tfHwSxnfGXuTLaoqw68p70gC0vvkrL buffalo,news,wben,catholic church,buffalo catholic diocese WBEN Extras buffalo,news,wben,catholic church,buffalo catholic diocese Buffalo Catholic Diocese COO Rick Suchan and CFO Al Gress address the clergy abuse settlement and moving the Diocese forward after the settlement Archive of various reports and news events 2024 © 2021 Audacy, Inc. News

St. Joseph Foundation president and canon lawyer Philip Gray on the Buffalo Catholic the Diocese's rationale on which parishes should pay how much toward the clergy abuse settlement full 565 Wed, 18 Jun 2025 08:30:00 +0000 xPAvc0wKtOu6bRJVCVz2Ozjlvdi5HNOf buffalo,news,wben,buffalo catholic diocese,st. joseph foundation,canon law,philip gray WBEN Extras buffalo,news,wben,buffalo catholic diocese,st. joseph foundation,canon law,philip gray St. Joseph Foundation president and canon lawyer Philip Gray on the Buffalo Catholic the Diocese's rationale on which parishes should pay how much toward the clergy abuse settlement Archive of various reports and news events 2024 © 2021 Audacy, Inc.

Canon lawyer Philip Gray says parishes can fight back against having to contribute to the Diocese settlement with abuse survivors.

Fred Bodimer highlights a surge in anti-Semitic attacks, Pope Leo's push for clergy abuse reform, and a new AI analysis of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Plus, a priest is kidnapped in Nigeria, and the U.S. Supreme Court rules on a religious tax case.

* A tentative settlement in the Archdiocese's abuse case has been reached. We'll get the details and what still has to happen * What you need to know about termites, roaches, mosquitoes, and all those pesky pests

A tentative settlement in the Archdiocese's abuse case has been reached. We'll get the details and what still has to happen from Stephanie Riegel, business writer for the Times Picayune/NOLA.com

Attorney Mitchell Garabedian on the settlement between clergy abuse victims and the Buffalo Catholic Diocese full 172 Tue, 22 Apr 2025 17:22:51 +0000 eGFi1YuZb71lAOnNaH3UxP3KauBZ00pI news & politics,news WBEN Extras news & politics,news Attorney Mitchell Garabedian on the settlement between clergy abuse victims and the Buffalo Catholic Diocese Archive of various reports and news events 2024 © 2021 Audacy, Inc. News & Politics News False

Will the new Catholic leader follow up with advocates for a longer conversation and address their requests?

Sandy Phillips Kirkham shares her harrowing yet inspiring journey of overcoming abuse in a religious setting. Her book, "Let Me Prey Upon You: Breaking Free From A Minister's Sexual Abuse," sheds light on the devastating impact of clergy abuse and serves as a resource for education and support for others. Sandy's journey is a poignant testament to the often-downplayed reality that women and girls within the church can be easy prey for sexual predators disguised as priests. Her compelling story highlights the egregious abuse of power by church leaders and the victim-blaming that often follows. Sandy recounts her personal experience of being groomed, manipulated, and sexually exploited by her youth pastor and eventually being expelled from her church while her abuser moved on to another congregation. For years, Sandy grappled with the thought that the exploitation she endured was her fault. However, through tremendous personal growth and reflection, she came to recognize that she was deliberately targeted, groomed, and manipulated by her abuser, who sought only to use and control her. Sandy's experience underscores the critical need for awareness and support for all victims of abuse, challenging the stigmatization and silence that often surrounds clergy abuse.

Israeli Army Radio reports Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar is believed to have been killed, while Israeli officials work to officially confirm his death. The 2024 candidates continue their campaign blitz, while GOP vice presidential candidate JD Vance is criticizing Vice President Kamala Harris' first-ever interview on Fox News. A preliminary autopsy report and a 911 call give more insight into former One Direction star Liam Payne's death. The Archdiocese of Los Angeles will pay hundreds of millions of dollars to victims of clergy sexual abuse. Plus, dating apps are adding new features that show off users' political views. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Renowned historian and New York Times bestselling author, Kristin Kobes Du Mez (Jesus and John Wayne) explores the culture of submission and sexual abuse within the evangelical community in her riveting documentary, FOR OUR DAUGHTERS, available to stream on September 26.Directed by Emmy award-winning filmmaker Carl Byker, the film draws a direct line from the culture of abuse created by evangelical leaders to their fervent support for a presidential candidate who has bragged about abusing women.For Our Daughters is available online September 26.FOR OUR DAUGHTERS features sit-down interviews with victims and whistleblowers of sexual abuse in the SBC, including acclaimed author Christa Brown (Baptistland), featured in the landmark 2019 investigation from the Houston Chronicle and San Antonio Express-News. The groundbreaking report examined sexual misconduct reports across the Southern Baptist Convention, and found hundreds of church leaders and volunteers across 20 states who had been criminally charged with sex crimes since 2000, leading to more than 700 victims. Interviews with survivor-advocates Tiffany Thigpen, Jules Woodson, Rachael Denhollander (What Is a Girl Worth), and Cait West (Rift) are also featured, highlighting their efforts to bring justice and reform to the church.A timely exploration of the intersection between faith, politics, and women's rights in America, the film honors the brave survivors who have shared their stories, often at great cost. It delves into how the church has cared more about power and political influence than love, and how the harm done to women and children threatens to extend beyond faith communities given what is at stake this election season."Just months after Jesus and John Wayne released, three conservative evangelical women asked to speak with me," says Du Mez. "To my surprise, they thanked me and asked how they could help. 'It's too late for us,' they told me. 'We've made our choices, and we can't walk away from the lives we've made. But we want something different for our daughters.' I've carried their words with me. This film is for them, and for their daughters."Abuse within the evangelical community starkly contradicts Jesus' teachings about women, which emphasize love, respect, and honor. By exposing the abuse and the abusers who distort God's name to justify their actions, FOR OUR DAUGHTERS challenges women to be a driving force within their own communities. The film calls on women of faith to raise their voices and wisely consider their vote as a means to protect the health, happiness, and liberties of their daughters and granddaughters.FOR OUR DAUGHTERS is executive produced by Kenneth Harbaugh, and Charlie Sadoff, and will be available to stream for free on YouTube starting September 26.Resources for sexual and spiritual abuse survivors can be found at forourdaughtersfilm.com.✖️✖️✖️Support the Show: Patreon.com/PreacherBoys✖️✖️✖️If you or someone you know has experienced abuse, visit courage365.org/need-help✖️✖️✖️CONNECT WITH THE SHOW:preacherboyspodcast.comhttps://www.youtube.com/@PreacherBoyshttps://www.facebook.com/preacherboysdoc/https://twitter.com/preacherboysdochttps://www.instagram.com/preacherboyspodhttps://www.tiktok.com/@preacherboyspodTo connect with a community that shares the Preacher Boys Podcast's mission to expose abuse in the IFB, join the OFFICIAL Preacher Boys Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1403898676438188/✖️✖️✖️The content presented in this video is for informational and educational purposes only. All individuals and entities discussed are presumed innocent until proven guilty through due legal process. The views and opinions expressed are those of the speakers.This episode is sponsored by/brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/PreacherBoys and get on your way to being your best self.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/preacher-boys-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Fred Bodimer provides a comprehensive look at the weekend's religion news. Topics include a new lawsuit against the St. Louis Archdiocese involving nearly four dozen Catholic leaders accused of abuse, and Archbishop Mitchell Rozanski's announcement of $1 million in grants to support affordable housing initiatives. Additionally, we cover the devastating fire at First Baptist Dallas' historic sanctuary and the community's plans for rebuilding. Stay informed on these important religious developments

Described as "the public face" of Baptist clergy sex abuse survivors, Christa Brown was one of the first to go public with substantiated child sex abuse allegations against a Baptist minister and documentation that others knew. Since then, for nearly two decades, she has worked to shine a light on the systemic problem of abuse and cover-ups in Baptistland.Christa has been touted in the London Times as "a whistleblower of historic proportions." Her work was spotlighted on ABC's 20/20, and she has been quoted and featured in numerous news outlets, including New York Times, Washington Post, Associated Press, Houston Chronicle, VICE, Religion News Service, Tennessean, National Public Radio, Baptist News Global, Christianity Today, and Huffington Post.After a 25-year career as an appellate attorney, Christa became a yoga teacher. As a runner, she once placed first in her age-category in a 10-K. "It was a rainy, blustery day, and I gained the edge by simply showing up," she says.Though a native Texan, Christa currently lives with her husband in Colorado where she loves to hike in the Rocky Mountains. She is a proud mom and grandma. Connect with Christa on Twitter @ChristaBrown777.Uncertain is a podcast of Tears of Eden, a community and resource for those in the aftermath of Spiritual Abuse. If you're enjoying this podcast, please take a moment to like, subscribe, or leave a review on your favorite podcasting listening apparatus. You can support the podcast by going to TearsofEden.org/supportTo get in touch with us please email tearsofeden.org@gmail.comFollow on Instagram @uncertainpodcastTranscript is unedited for typos and misspellings[00:00:00] the uncertain podcast is the affiliate podcast of tears at Eden, a nonprofit that serves as a community and resource for survivors of spiritual abuse. This podcast and the work of tears are supported by donations from generous listeners. Like you. If you're enjoying this podcast, please consider giving a donation by using the link in the show notes or visiting tears of eaton.org/support. You can also support the podcast by rating and leaving a review and sharing on social media. If you're not already following us, please follow us on Facebook at tears of Eden and Instagram at uncertain podcast. Thanks so much for listening. Today I am with Krista Brown discussing her new memoir, Baptist Land, where she discusses her experiences addressing clergy sexual abuse within the Southern Baptist Convention it's a very powerful book. And it is a very needed book for this day and age when it seems like every day we have another story in the news about another clergy person abusing a congregant, a [00:01:00] child. It's rampant. So, super important book.Really hope that you get a chance to read it. During the interview, we had some internet connection issues. I did my best to remove some of the bumps and clicks and gaps. Hopefully it will not impact your listening experience today. Here is my interview with Krista Brown. Katherine: How are you doing today, Krista? How has it been since the launch of the book? Christa: Well, it's been very busy since the launch of the book, but I'm very, very gratified and grateful for for the positive response that there's been. Katherine: Yeah, absolutely. What are some consistent things that you've been receiving from folks?Christa: Well, I think among survivors church to survivors, There's a lot in it that really resonates with people and, and I'm glad for that because I [00:02:00] think it helps people See some of the patterns of their own lives and realize that they aren't alone. But of course, it's not just for survivors I mean it also I think has been resonating with a lot of people who simply grew up in these very high control kinds of Religious environments And they see their own, they see those patterns too, even if they aren't the patterns of direct sexual abuse, they're also the patterns, just how much they were under the thumb of this religious control.Katherine: I think that's one of the things that I really appreciate about the book is that you're not just saying here is the abuse and the abuse is bad and this is why abuse is bad. You're also exposing the theological foundation that is where the the soil for where that abuse grows. Exactly. And I don't I feel like that is missing in a lot of literature about abuse in the church.There's like this [00:03:00] like qualifying statement of just like, but don't worry, the church is still good. It's just these bad people doing these bad things. And I really appreciate how you expose. Oh, it's a lot more than just a handful of folks being abusive and doing bad things. really appreciate that.Christa: Yes. And all of that soil, as you call it is very, very powerful and the, the control and the authority and the domination that derives from it is very insidious. Katherine: Yeah, Christa: and I think can be enormously harmful. Katherine: Yes, absolutely. And so complex as you, you showed of just all the different dynamics and for you specifically, you had abuse happening in your home.At the same time as it was happening in the church. And so it was just kind of all, all of these layers [00:04:00] of social dynamics and family dynamics and power dynamics all wrapped up and, you know, faith in God and all Christa: normalized. Yes, not only normalized but legitimized by the faith. Katherine: And anytime.Anytime. you expressed any like said no or I'm uncomfortable or I don't like this or fight for yourself then it was like immediate gaslighting and immediate like You are the problem. And of course, it's perpetuated of anyone who like, just like raises their hand and just says like, I'm a, I'm a little, you know, and then for incentive for people to even fight.No, it's happening, but like, to even fight to try and change it. It's you just get squashed so fast. Christa: That is exactly right. And that's. Why it's so very [00:05:00] hard for people, I think, to step outside of these environments because You know, it's like you're put in this little box and you try to occasionally peek outside that box and you get poked in the eye, you know, and you reach a hand outside the box and it gets slapped down and that box is pretty tight.It Katherine: really is. It really is. What are some things that are common for you and for you have seen as common for survivors that are things that are just associated with this type of abuse, the sexual abuse, the spiritual abuse that's happening in these communities that make it difficult for them to interact with faith communities?Christa: Well, I mean, the, the faith community itself and all of the accoutrements of faith are often kind of neurologically networked in with sexual abuse. And that's not a cognitive thing that people [00:06:00] hold in their heads. It's, it's a physiological response. It's not as if we can reason our way out of it and say, Oh, well, fine.I'm going back to my faith group. Because there were these good things over there because it's all kind of intermixed together neurologically in the same way that that language is intermixed with everything we hold and think. And I think it's very hard for people at the same time. And a lot of ways if we were, you know, if we've been raised in these faith groups.from toddler hood. It's almost like we have a chip implanted in our brain because it's very, very hard to get past that that control because we have been indoctrinated and raised To give religious leaders the benefit of the doubt, to be trusting of them to give grace to be good and all that goes along with, with goodness and being good.Oh, it would just not be so [00:07:00] good, right? Katherine: But then for the good people, like it works on the good people. And. majority of folks are and so as you just kind of get like sucked into this vortex of just like constant inundation I call it like alien body snatching. We've just been inhabited by a foreign substance that is controlling us.Oh my gosh. So real. Yeah. Interested in listening to more than 40 archived Uncertain Podcast episodes? All you have to do is sign up to become a monthly supporter of 5 or more. Becoming a monthly supporter will give you access to popular episodes such as Confessions of a Christian Parent and When Bad People Do Good Things.You'll also get access to this episode without any interruptions from yours truly. Become a monthly supporter today by going to tiersofedian. org slash support. Katherine: How did you become [00:08:00] Sort of like a spokesperson advocate for SBC bullshit that is happening in this organization. Christa: Well, you know, this was never something that I foresaw or planned on. But, you know, in my own life when my daughter reached the same age, Approximately the same age I had been at the time of the abuse.It just shifted everything it was as though I suddenly saw everything through new eyes and very different eyes. And at that point in time, I was still pretty naive and I thought, Oh gee whiz, if I just talk to church leaders about this, they will surely want to help me. And there'll be older and wiser.Now they'll want to make sure that this man can't hurt anyone else. Yeah. And, of course, I've never been more wrong about anything in my life. That was not what happened. But as a mother, I just could not accept that. I mean, going to, you know, a [00:09:00] couple dozen Southern Baptist leaders trying to get someone to help with this, and finding absolutely no one.Yeah. Even though my story was, you know, Corroborated and documented. That was just something that I could not accept and still can't. And then when I wrote my first op ed for the Dallas Morning News, and this is as far back as 2006. I thought, okay, I'm just going to say my piece here and get it out there.And then I could walk away from all this and never mess with it. But, but what happened was, you know, my email was at the bottom of that op ed piece and and I was just flooded. And so then I, yeah. And then I realized, oh my God, yeah. And I could not, and I just kind of. I've been in this ever since.So here I am still. Yeah, Katherine: absolutely. Tell me a little bit about I, I love the letter that you write of just like this perspective [00:10:00] Just because there's no hope for the church doesn't mean there's no hope. Tell me a little bit about that and how that motivates you to sort of keep telling this story and keep saying stuff needs to change.Christa: Well, it has always, I think, in very large measure been The stories of other survivors that has motivated me and I can't tell all of those stories. I, that I can tell my own story and hope that that helps others in the process and hope that it reveals something of the patterns of what happens in these dreadful dynamics.And so the book ends with a letter that I wrote to clergy sex abuse survivors survivors. And, you know, at this point in time, I've kind of been in this for about 20 years, and I do not hold hope, certainly not for the Southern Baptist Convention for, for true, meaningful reform. No, they've had countless opportunities to reckon with this, and that's not what they're doing.But that doesn't [00:11:00] mean there is no hope, because I think in every life. When someone reaches the point that they can begin to look at what was done to them, and even speak it to themselves. Or to close friends what was done and speak the truth of what was done, that that is hopeful for that person's life.Because it is, it is the truth that carries us forward. And that brings transformation in our own lives. And that's a very hopeful thing. And so I do hold hope for that. And that's why I keep doing what I do, because I do think that truth holds power as a moral force in the universe. And even, you know, even whatever the Southern Baptist Convention ever does or doesn't do.We still stand in the truth and that truth is what holds power for us. Katherine: Yeah, the truth alone itself is important and some reason for hope I resonated with that a lot. I [00:12:00] think for the first few years that Tears of Eden existed and the podcast existed. I was kind of focused on like speaking to the church.Like you need to do better. You need to stop doing this. You need to do better. And then quickly lost steam. I was like, it's not, it's like one story after another, after another, after another. People having very similar experiences to you. Going to the leadership, going through all the quote unquote right channels to like try and address it and getting shut down, getting re traumatized, re abused.And it's like, and even now just the climate of the church, the institutional church across all denominations, it's like they're digging in and it's like they're just digging in. They're, they're, they're, they're not, there's not even an opening really for any kind of change or reform. It's like they're just, they're kind of circling the wagons and like making this even, you know, more strong stance.And so [00:13:00] turning to shifting to, I'm not going to try and change this institution. I'm going to talk to the people who have survived was so much more. fulfilling and just like, okay, that institution is going to keep abusing people. And I am going to be here. This organization is going to be here for when those people are needing help.It sucks. It's not ideal. But I love the way that you describe it as hope, so that this one person individual person collective of people get an opportunity to share their story, and that they are believed somewhere. Massive amount of hope Christa: there. No, I resonate with that totally because I think for me too.In the early years, I sort of viewed myself as speaking truth to power. Mm hmm. I don't view what I'm doing that way anymore, because the truth is the powerful [00:14:00] already know. Oh, they do. Yes. Oh, they do. They already know. Absolutely. . so nowadays, I think what I'm really doing is just speaking truth.With and for the powerless. It is solidarity with them. Yeah, Katherine: Absolutely. And I, I have stopped calling them are very recently stopped calling them power holders and call them power hoarders because they are just conglomerating and, and not. this is not an accident that they're in these places.Like they're intentionally seeking and using a platform of religion and God to get to these places. I saw that thread in your book. Do you, I mean, I'm assuming that that was intentional of this thread of, People intentionally using God in the Bible to get to these places. Tell me about that, if that was intentional and what patterns you've seen of [00:15:00] just these type of predators actually intentionally using God in the Bible and the church institution to get these places of power.Christa: Yes. I'm glad you saw that because of course that was intentional because that is what's happening. And I think you see that in the book. Both on a micro level and on a macro level. It replicates at the macro level. On the micro level, you see it in the way, of course, that Bible verses and Scripture and the whole power of the faith.It is used literally as a weapon for child rape. at the macro level though, in this day and time, we are very much, I think, seeing something quite similar in the way that biblical perspective is essentially being used very often as a propaganda tool for maintaining status quo power. Yeah. And essentially using evangelical theology to legitimize authoritarianism.Mm hmm. And I [00:16:00] think those are kind of the same thing there. Using faith as a tool and a weapon for domination and control. Mm hmm. Katherine: Speak to the person who thinks that they can address the abuse in the church without addressing the theology. Christa: You know, I do not think you can do this without addressing the theology, without interrogating The theology that we see in, in a very broad swath of evangelicalism is a theology of male headship and female submissiveness teaching that men should be in charge and have authority over women and of course also over children.And that Women, females should submit and even that they should graciously submit. And when you have a theology that teaches that some [00:17:00] people by virtue of nothing more than how they are born should be people who have others in authority over them. That is a theology that lends itself, I think, to abuse.And when you combine that theology with an institutional structure that is wholly lacking in accountability systems, then what you've done is you've created this Frankenstein monster. That just inflicts enormous harm on so many people. And this theology, it's not as if they simply teach that this is the way it should be.They're teaching that this is the way God says it should be. And that is incredibly powerful. And I do not think that this that you can solve this without interrogating seriously that theology itself. Katherine: Absolutely. I'm going to [00:18:00] ask you another question because I know what the critics are going to say.Hopefully they are not listening to my podcast anymore, but just in case, what about the teaching to the main tenant of complementarianism is that men and women are equal, but they just have different roles. What do you say to that? Christa: Well, I think it's the same thing that we saw in Southern Baptist theology with their, I mean, with their, the way they addressed race.And I mean, this began as an institution that was founded for the very purpose of having slaveholding missionaries. It was founded as an institution that sanctified slavery, that consecrated the confederacy, and gave birth to a bloody civil war. This is the Southern Baptist Convention. That is their very roots, [00:19:00] and those roots are still there.And that, the same theology, That derives from those roots saying that white people should have authority over black people is now the very same theology they're using to say that white men or all men should have authority over all females, they can use that word equal all they want, but separate but equal is never equal.Katherine: Yeah, Christa: it's not. Katherine: Yes. No, I love that you compared it to that, that slogan of separate but equal. Like, if there is something distinctly about your person that is causing the separation, it's not equality. It's, it's just not. You can use that word. It is not true. It's just, yeah, it's not. Yes. I saw in your bio that you're a lawyer or used to be a lawyer.[00:20:00] I'm a retired attorney. Yes. Retired attorney. What was your And what has been your approach to this from like a legal perspective and like what you think needs to happen legally? Christa: Well you know, I, I'm a retired attorney, so I don't give legal advice. But certainly I think my background has helped shape how I think about these things.Or You know I do think that the Southern Baptist Convention has shown that it has no interest, not really, in seriously reckoning with this problem. And the only thing that will bring change in this massive, cantacular, multi billion dollar institution is outside pressure. And that outside pressure comes from lawsuits, civil lawsuits, criminal prosecutions independent investigations and from the media and so, you know, there, there are a lot of problems with bringing civil lawsuits, [00:21:00] particularly here in the south there are a lot of states that have very archaic statutes of limitation that, that impede the bringing of lawsuits.But I believe that will change over time. I, I hold faith. In the dog Katherine: statue of limitation all together across the board. Just Christa: yeah, and I hold faith that that will eventually happen. I think the trend is going that way and I think America's trial lawyers are pushing and I have a lot of faith in America's trial lawyers. Yeah, it won't happen in my lifetime, but this is the way it's going. Katherine: Right. Yeah, and I think that that's helpful just kind of clarity for folks who are still relying on bringing in, you know, People to come in and try and do, you know, counseling and try and do, you know, organizational training or coaching or whatever within the institution, the same power power hoarders within that institution [00:22:00] are still controlling.Even that, like it has to come from outside to make any, if there is going to be any change. Christa: It does. And I am so grateful also, just want to say here to so many fine journalists who have done enormous work over the past couple decades. We would know so much less. Yeah, about the dynamics of how they hold this power, were it not for the work of dedicated journalists Katherine: and authors like yourself Christa: are Katherine: also for the Christa: courage and an outspokenness of so many survivors who stepped outside.The arena and went to the outside and spoke the truth of their stories. Yeah, Katherine: absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, just for folks who since you do have, you know, the attorney experience. I know a big fear for a lot of folks and I don't know how litigious the SBC is. I'm [00:23:00] familiar with some denominations that are very litigious.That fear of speaking their own story and then getting having being sued for like defamation or slander. Have you seen any patterns or anything that is helpful in that type of situation? Christa: I think that risk, of course, is there and the Southern Baptist Convention has certainly shown that it will use scorched earth litigation tactics against survivors.We certainly saw that it finally came to light in the case involving Paul Pressler where it came to light that they actually had emails among themselves where they showed that they knew that his allegations had serious corroboration and despite that for six years They tried every means possible against him in the litigation process.We've seen it in the litigation involving another woman [00:24:00] in Kentucky. And I think, of course, what we see in this is, is really where their heart is. They aren't trying to do right by survivors, they're trying to squash survivors every way they can. And, and I know there's, there's a lot of us who were raised in this, in evangelicalism and broad swaths of it that teach that, you know, believers shouldn't sue other believers.You know what? Get past that. Get past that and get yourself a good lawyer. Get over it. Get past that and go talk to a good lawyer. And maybe there's some, the legal system isn't perfect. And sometimes, given the passage of time and all sorts of factors, there may not be good legal recourse. But it is always worth at least consulting with a good sexual abuse attorney about your options.Katherine: Yeah. And at least know, at least know what they are. And then there are ways I think also to just like go public about your story. It's so hard when you are the, [00:25:00] the survivor. And so like you are telling your version of the story. But I think that there are ways to like tell the story too.And so like talking to journalists and stuff too, like how to, how do I phrase this so that. They're going to still come after you, even if you do all of potentially all of the things right that anyone can sue anyone for any reason. But yeah, there are, there are things that we can do to, to protect ourselves.Right. With a time that we have left I would love to hear just maybe just like your, you would, what wanna say to survivors and people who are reading your book. What do you want people to take away when they read the book, Christa: you know, to survivors? I say, first of all, you know, the, the very, it is the very nature I think, of sexual abuse that it inculcates in this.this idea that we don't hold any value. And that's a lie. That is a lie. You are all, each and every one of you, [00:26:00] are human beings of infinite worth. And the lie that the abuse has inculcated and the continuing lie that faith leaders inculcate by their do nothing reactions as though it's no big deal.All of that, all of that is a lie. So I say that to you. And at the same time, I would also say, you know, it's hard to do, but cultivate your skepticism. And I think that's really important. And don't feel guilty skepticism. They have not earned your trust, not one bit. So cultivate your skepticism and that skepticism, and when we see that faith itself, is being weaponized both to commit abuse and to silence survivors, then it behooves us to cultivate skepticism even as to [00:27:00] matters of faith.Sure. Katherine: Absolutely. No, and I appreciate, I appreciate you saying that because I think it's so easy for folks to just say, but then don't give up on God and then don't give up on the church and, and that can just kind of. Defeat everything that comes before that. Yes. And like that avenue of maybe this has done so much to destroy trust that it's no longer worthy of me investing and putting my time and my, my heart and my faith into this that, that, that is a legitimate option for people.And guilt free. Yes, absolutely. Christa: That is a Katherine: legitimate path. Christa: Yes, give yourself that freedom and focus on yourself and your own healing and make that the priority and let faith fall where it falls. Katherine: Yeah. Christa: But focus on yourself. Katherine: Yeah, absolutely. [00:28:00] Absolutely. Yeah. And that, that, that being so counter to the theology that we were raised with of just like surrender.I love the part in your book where you're just talking about that all to Jesus. I just surrender him that we all saying. And it was like, it's like an embedded into everything to just divorce yourself from yourself and to like give up everything. And that. When you are doing that, you, you become this ripe victim for for predators because, because there is nothing, no personal internal radar that you are able to pay attention to that you're, you're discouraged from paying attention to it. In, in the, in these spaces because of this theology. And I 100 percent agree with you. It is worthy of. Christa: All right, because what we've been taught is our bodies are not our own, our lives are not our own. Our lives are for the service of God, [00:29:00] which often means the service of these men who tell us about God.Well, we gotta let that go. Katherine: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Long journey, long journey to get there, but absolutely 100 percent worth it. This was great. This was awesome. This is wonderful. Where can people find you? How can they follow you? How can they interact with you? Christa: Well, I'm very active on Twitter.I'm Krista Brown, 777. I also have a Substack newsletter, which is kristabrown. substack. com. Those are probably the two best places. All Katherine: right, I will put that stuff in the show notes. Uncertain is produced, recorded, edited, and hosted by me, Katherine Spearing. Intro music is from the band Green Ashes. I hope you've enjoyed this podcast. And if you have, please take a moment to like subscribe and leave a review. Thank you so much for listening and I will see you next time.

Does it sound familiar to be promised change in a faith community, only to be let down time and time again? Perhaps you've been told that praying and hoping for change is the answer, but the pain of unfulfilled promises and ongoing trauma lingers. Are you tired of empty words and unmet expectations, especially when it comes to addressing clergy sexual abuse and spiritual trauma? It's time to acknowledge the impact and seek real solutions. Let's dive into empowering advocacy and validation of experiences. Join us in finding healing and change with abuse survivor and advocate Christa Brown in part 2. In this episode, you will be able to: Discover strategies for surviving clergy sexual abuse and reclaiming personal power. Explore the profound impact of spiritual abuse within faith communities and find ways to heal. Gain insights into the history and current efforts of the Southern Baptist Convention in addressing clergy abuse. Learn effective ways to advocate for change within religious organizations and support fellow survivors. Uncover the importance of professional counseling in the journey towards healing from trauma. My special guest is Christa Brown Christa Brown is an inspiring figure who has dedicated her life to advocating for survivors of clergy sexual abuse within the Southern Baptist Convention. As the author of the newly released book Baptistland, she bravely shares her own experiences of abuse, betrayal, and transformation, shedding light on the reality of clergy sex abuse and cover-ups within the US's largest protestant denomination. With a background as a retired appellate attorney, a mother, and a grandmother, Christa brings a unique perspective and unwavering determination to demand reforms and bring about change within religious organizations. Her insights and experiences offer valuable knowledge and empowerment to those navigating the complex journey of healing from trauma and seeking justice. Follow Christa on X/Twitter. Listen to the first of the 2 part EPS here. The key moments in this episode are: 00:00:02 - Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:02:00 - Trigger Warning and Introduction of Guest 00:03:13 - Skepticism and Empty Promises 00:11:37 - Cultivating Skepticism 00:14:39 - Applause for Perpetrators 00:16:46 - Lack of Consequences for Harmful Behavior 00:19:10 - Lack of Change in Leadership 00:22:23 - Troubling Hotline Operations 00:25:02 - Spiritual Abuse and Inappropriate Prayers 00:30:22 - Seeking Accountability and Restitution 00:34:31 - Challenges of Changing from Within 00:36:07 - Call to Action and Concerns 00:37:24 - Importance of Christa's Voice 00:38:12 - Impact of Christa's Memoir 00:39:38 - Invitation to Join the Difference Makers Community for an exclusive EPS with Christa Brown and much more Check out host Lori Adams-Brown's latest Substack newsletter: The Bully Pulpit Why Whistleblowing as a Former Woman Pastor in a Southern Baptist Church Has Nuance https://www.instagram.com/aworldof.difference https://www.aworldofdifferencepodcast.com https://www.youtube.com/@aworldofdifference https://www.twitter.com/@awodpod https://www.facebook.com/A-World-of-Difference-613933132591673/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/aworldofdifference/

This is her bio: "A church is where an insecure sixteen-year-old girl should feel welcome, happy, and most importantly, safe. Tragically for some, the church can become a place of great harm. Sandy Phillips Kirkham details her account of how a charismatic youth minister preyed upon her, a betrayal which left her broken, with a shattered faith, and the ultimate shame of being blamed and forced from the church she loved. From their very first meeting, the new youth minister slowly and methodically turned the sacred relationship of a trusted spiritual leader to one of abuse: sexual, emotional, and physical. When his actions were discovered, he was simply moved to another church, leaving Sandy to pay for his deeds. She was not his first victim, nor would she be his last. Despite a successful and happy life as a wife, mother, and friend, Sandy successfully concealed her abuse for twenty-seven years until a trigger forced her to face the truth. Sandy's story will take you on her journey of healing which began in 2004, first by seeking justice and closure from both the pastor and the church. Her strength and courage will inspire you. Let Me Prey Upon You details Sandy's journey from innocent sixteen-year-old victim to survivor and advocate." -Let Me Prey Upon You - Sandy Phillips Kirkham, Author. Link: Let Me Prey Upon You: Breaking Free from a Minister's Sexual Abuse: Kirkham, Sandy Phillips, Wietmarschen, Peter: 9781734195224: Amazon.com: Books --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/antonio-myers4/support

Every now and then, someone on our page will bring up the Catholic clergy abuse scandal to discredit any moral teaching of the Catholic Church. Hence, we respond to the accusation, again. Here are the pages we shared in this episode. On public schools: https://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/research/pubs/misconductreview/report.pdf On Jewish communitites: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32054401/ On Jehovah's Witnesses: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/11/28/japan/society/jehovas-witnesses-sexual-abuse-report/ On Protestant churches: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/over-2000-people-abused-german-protestant-church-study-2024-01-25/ - - -  The Sentinel Ph:  Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheSentinelPh  - - -  You can help SUPPORT THIS PODCAST thru:  Shopee – Arugaan Online Shop:  Fight this toxic culture in style! Order your THE JAY ARUGA SHOW podcast T-shirt now:  https://shopee.ph/product/274489164/24822983311/  Buying me a coffee thru: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/thejayarugashow  GCASH: 09204848046  - - -  Today's Sponsor:  Hallow - Try Hallow's premium contents for FREE: https://hallow.com/jayaruga  - - -  Socials:  Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jagaruga  Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jay.aruga  Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheJayArugaShow  Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/JayAruga  --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/thejayarugashow/message

Tommy talks with WWL Louisiana investigative reporter David Hammer

Krissy speaks with Gemma Hickey after their return from Rom, where they presented a lecture at the The Pontifical Gregorian Universit; a school with deep ties to the Vatican, that trains Roman Catholic priests, theologians, and scholars

Fred Bodimer delves into the recent developments concerning religious affairs over the weekend. The segment covers Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer's poignant remarks addressing the heightened fears of anti-Semitism among Jewish Americans following the October 7 Hamas terror attack. Additionally, the report highlights Pope Francis's health concerns, leading to the cancellation of his scheduled trip to the United Nations Climate Conference in Dubai.  

Tommy talks with Jason Barry, a New Orleans historian and investigative journalist, author of "Render Unto Rome: The Secret Life of Money in the Catholic Church"

In this episode, VSC's Violence Prevention Educator, Hannah Jenarine sits with Sandy Phillips Kirkham to speak on the Dynamics of Clergy Abuse. Sandy Kirkham and her husband Bill enjoy life with their two grown children, two beautiful granddaughters, and two fairly well-behaved dogs. Sandy continues to use her voice to help victims of clergy abuse. She currently serves on the board of Council Against Child Abuse. Sandy has spoken before the Ohio Senate, a Maryland court, and appeared on a local television show in Boston. Her story, “Stolen Innocence,” was told in a documentary produced by The Hope of Survivors. Sandy works with survivors conducting victim support conferences. She has participated in The Voice of the Faithful (VOTF) panels moderated by SNAP (Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests), sharing her perspective from the non-Catholic point of view. Sandy has been a presenter/speaker at major events on clergy abuse including the Hope & Healing Conference. Sandy has earned a certificate of completion from the Faith Trust Institute entitled, “A Sacred Trust: Boundary Issues for Clergy and Spiritual Teachers.” Purchase her book "Let Me Prey Upon You": https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/shop/ ----------------------------------- Trigger Warning: In this podcast, we will be discussing sensitive topics such as Sexual Assault. It's important to take care of yourself while listening. Some suggestions are listening while you're in a healthy headspace or knowing who you can reach out to if you become upset. Our 24/7 helpline for crisis calls based out of Central Florida is 407 500 HEAL, for the Florida state sexual helpline call (888) 956-7273. By contacting the National Hotline at 1-800-656-4673 you can get support and learn about your local resources. There is always someone ready to help.

The Child Victims Act lifts the statute of limitations on when sexual abuse victims may sue perpetrators. Steven J. Kelly is a principal at the law firm Grant & Eisenhofer. He represents some of the first-to-file plaintiffs. We hear their stories.  Plus, what does the Archdiocese of Baltimore's bankruptcy filing mean for survivors of clergy abuse? We speak with Professor Pamela Foohey of Cardozo School of Law, who argues that the process pushes survivors into settlements. With Christopher Odinet of Iowa College of Law, Foohey recently published the article, “Silencing Litigation Through Bankruptcy,” in the Virginia Law Review. Links:Baltimore Archdiocese bankruptcy brings new time crunch for alleged victimsArchbishop Lori's Message on Chapter 11What's a creditor's committee? 7 abuse victims to negotiate for all in Archdiocese of Baltimore bankruptcyDo you have a question or comment about a show or a story idea to pitch? Contact On the Record at: Senior Supervising Producer, Maureen Harvie she/her/hers mharvie@wypr.org 410-235-1903 Senior Producer, Melissa Gerr she/her/hers mgerr@wypr.org 410-235-1157 Producer Sam Bermas-Dawes he/him/his sbdawes@wypr.org 410-235-1472

Sandy Phillips Kirkham is a survivor of clergy abuse and the author of, "Let Me Prey Upon You". Sandy was very active in her church growing up, her faith was the center of her life. When she was 16 her youth pastor groomed and manipulated her into a sexual relationship. After years of abuse she managed to exit the relationship and reclaim her life. Sandy kept her experience a secret for 27 years before she had to face it and begin her healing journey. Today Sandy is a strong advocate for survivors of clergy abuse as a board member of the Council Against Child Abuse and through her work with The Hope of Survivors. Today Sandy will be sharing her story, and we'll be discussing her incredibly powerful book.Sandy Kirkham and her husband Bill enjoy life with their two grown children, two beautiful granddaughters, and two fairly well-behaved dogs. Sandy continues to use her voice to help victims of clergy abuse. She currently serves on the board of Council Against Child Abuse. Sandy has spoken before the Ohio Senate, a Maryland court, and appeared on a local television show in Boston. Her story, “Stolen Innocence,” was told in a documentary produced by The Hope of Survivors. Sandy works with survivors conducting victim support conferences. She has participated in The Voice of the Faithful (VOTF) panels moderated by SNAP (Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests), sharing her perspective from the non-Catholic point of view. Sandy has been a presenter/speaker at major events on clergy abuse including the Hope & Healing Conference. Sandy has earned a certificate of completion from the Faith Trust Institute entitled, “A Sacred Trust: Boundary Issues for Clergy and Spiritual Teachers.”Sandy's Website: https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/Sandy's Book: https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/shop/https://bookshop.org/p/books/let-me-prey-upon-you-breaking-free-from-a-minister-s-sexual-abuse-sandy-phillips-kirkham/13830913?ean=9781734195200The Hope of Survivors: http://www.thehopeofsurvivors.org/Council on Child Abuse: https://www.cocachild.org/GRACE: https://www.netgrace.org/SNAP: https://www.snapnetwork.org/Finding OK: https://www.finding-ok.com/Hecate's Links: https://linktr.ee/FindingOKSupport the podcast and become a Patreon member!https://www.patreon.com/HecateFindingOKFinding OK is funded entirely by the generosity of listeners like you!https://www.finding-ok.com/support/Letters for the Fire: https://www.finding-ok.com/blog/letters-for-the-fire-season-5/Thank you for listening. BLM. Take care of yourself

Faced with more than 500 lawsuits stemming from clergy sexual abuse, the San Francisco Catholic diocese last week said it had no choice but to seek Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. San Francisco Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone wrote, “the bankruptcy process is the best way to provide a compassionate and equitable solution” for abuse survivors. But victims say the bankruptcy is just a ploy to deprive them of justice and their day in court. San Francisco's move to seek bankruptcy relief follows similar filings by the Oakland and Santa Rosa dioceses, following multiple clergy abuse lawsuits. Across the country, more than 30 dioceses have have sought bankruptcy protection. We'll talk with experts about what it all means for the church, its faithful, and abuse survivors. Guests: Sophia Bollag, reporter, San Francisco Chronicle Michael O'Loughlin, national correspnodent and associate editor, America: The Jesuit Review - O'Loughlin has covered the Catholic church for both the Boston Globe and Crux. He is the author of "Hidden Mercy: AIDS, Catholics and the Untold Stories of Compassion in the Face of Fear" Joey Piscitelli, northwest group leader, SNAP (Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests) - Piscitelli, a survivor of clergy abuse, won a judgment against the Salesian order following a trial in 2006 in Contra Costa County Marie Reilly, professor of Law, Penn State University - Reilly is an expert in bankruptcy. Her published work includes studies of Catholic dioceses in bankruptcy Rick Simons , attorney, Simons is counsel or co-counsel on 75 individual clergy abuse lawsuits filed in Northern California. He also serves as the Northern California court liaison for the 1,600 clergy abuse cases filed against various Northern California dioceses

In this week's Capitol Chats episode, Dem AG Josh Kaul won't say if he plans to charge any of the 10 fake electors in Wisconsin as other AGs have brought similar cases in their states. He also talks about pushing for closure for survivors of clergy abuse and the future of his lawsuit to make the state's 1849 abortion ban unenforceable.

It is 20 years since the Boston Globe exposed the abuse scandal that rocked the Catholic church world wide. Two weeks ago The Abuse in Care Royal Commission of Inquiry's released its interim report into Marylands School for disabled boys in Christchurch, finding widespread sexual and physical abuse of students between 1955 and 1984.The Press newspaper in Christchurch began reporting on the horrors at Marylands School in 2002. Martin Baron was the editor of the Boston Globe, and its award winning Spotlight investigative team which tenaciously uncovered widespread sexual abuse by priests, hushed up by the church paying private settlements to claimants. The story was adapted for the big screen - Spotlight winning two academy awards. He joins Susie Ferguson to talk about the impact of the Spotlight team's work, two decades on.

It's the Friday news roundup! Host Trenae Nuri talks with Zoe Greenberg, features reporter at the Philadelphia Inquirer, Stephen Caruso, capitol reporter with Spotlight PA, and Ben Seal, freelance reporter. They discuss the drama over who gets to profit from Tiffany windows discovered in a church in West Philly, why a sexual abuse amendment missed its deadline to get on the November ballot, and why advocates want to see Pennsylvania reform the use of psychedelics.  RSVP for our upcoming live event on 8/30 here! Our Friday news roundups are powered by great local journalism:  Dorney Park to get the region's first dive rollercoaster in 2024 A West Philly church's Tiffany windows sold for $200,000. A bank says the money is theirs. Proposed relief for child sex abuse survivors won't reach Pa. ballot in 2023 Pennsylvania is getting closer to psychedelic reform, and advocates in Philly are pushing for decriminalization Want some more Philly news? Then make sure to sign up for our morning newsletter. We're also on Twitter and Instagram! Follow us @citycastphilly. Have a question or just want to share some thoughts with the team? Leave us a voicemail or send us a text at 215-259-8170. Interested in advertising with City Cast? Find more info here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode deals with the topic of Clergy Abuse.  Please practice self-care while listening.

In this deeply moving episode of Warriors Unmasked, we sit down with Sandy Phillips Kirkham, a wife, mother, and grandmother who has triumphed over trauma. Sandy bravely shares her journey, from growing up in a divorced family to finding solace in the church and her relationship with God, only to experience abuse by her youth pastor. This conversation takes listeners from sorrow and sadness to compassion, understanding, and empowerment as we explore Sandy's lifelong journey of healing and forgiveness. Sandy's story is one of hope and overcoming trauma. At 16, she was sexually abused by her youth pastor, an abuse that continued for five years until his actions were discovered. She wasn't his first victim, nor his last. After being told to leave the church due to her "behavior," Sandy hid her past from her husband, family, and friends for 27 years. A triggering event eventually forced her to confront her abuse, hiring a private investigator to locate her abuser and confront him. Sandy's journey isn't just about the abuse she endured, but also about how she overcame the trauma, learned to forgive, and reclaimed her life. Sandy speaks candidly The pastor began grooming Sandy for abuse, starting with seemingly innocent gestures and escalating to sexual contact. He manipulated her guilt and devotion to the church, convincing her that their relationship was sanctioned by God. Trapped by his control and fearful of not being believed, Sandy suffered in silence for years. Despite the damage done to her spiritual life and relationship with the church, Sandy has managed to find healing and forgiveness. She admits to still feeling uncomfortable in church at times but has learned to accept and understand her triggers. Through her healing journey, Sandy has become an advocate for victims of clergy abuse, serving on the board of the Council on Child Abuse and volunteering for The Hope of Survivor's Ministry. She has even spoken before the Ohio Senate! Sandy Phillips Kirkham's story is a testament to the power of resilience, healing, and forgiveness. Her experiences offer invaluable insight and encouragement to others who may be struggling with similar traumas. Hit play to hear more!  GUEST LINKS:   Sandy's Book: Let Me Prey Upon You - Sandy Phillips Kirkham, Author LINKS: malarchuk.com/book  malarchuk.com  www.thecompassionateconnection.com www.warriorsunmasked.com  Follow us on Instagram Like us on Facebook Subscribe To Our YouTube My Community Contact   Episode Minute By Minute: 0:00 Introduction from Chuck + messages from our sponsors 2:52 The church started as a perfect place for Sandy 6:27 When the abuse started for Sandy 13:46 How to spot the many tools of manipulation and abuse 18:27 An eventual reckoning….yet without justice 24:58 The journey of confronting the truth 31:57 The motive for bringing the truth to light 34:56 When they made Sandy the villain of the story 39:56 When Sandy shared the truth with her husband 43:51 A look into Sandy's new book “Let Me Prey Upon You” 47:02 It's a much bigger issue than we can wrap our heads around  

In this episode of Crime Over Cocktails, I talk with my guest Sandy. At the age sixteen, Sandy was excited to find herself accepted not only by a church, but also by their new pastor.  After five years of grooming, gaslighting, and emotional abuse, she was able to walk away, but to never speak of it for twenty-seven years. Sandy is now the author of "Let Me Prey Upon You" which details the five-year relationship, how she suppressed it for so many years, the toll it took on her and her recovery journey. Let go of blaming yourself! https://sandyphillipskirkham.comhttps://www.amazon.com/Let-Prey-Upon-You-Ministers-ebook/dp/B084H2WCW5Support the showhttps://www.crimeovercocktails.comhttp://www.instagram.com/crimeovercocktails/http://calendly.com/crimeovercocktails https://podmatch.com/signup/crimeovercocktailshttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu1f3cHWYhG4vWEwRcmkTmghttps://paypal.me/crimeovercocktails?country.x=US&locale.x=en_US

Clergy have a uniquely intimate place in the lives of people of faith: present at baptisms, weddings, sick beds, and funerals. They're with us when we're at our worst and at our best, and life's highs and lows. And while most clergy view this as a sacred trust with parishioners, others—as we have learned—sadly use that access and trust to abuse children.Anna Segura-Montagut, Ph.D., joins us to discuss a research study that moves beyond news accounts, books, and movies to explore critical questions when working with survivors of clergy abuse. How is survivors' belief in God affected by the abuse? And how does that impact resilience? How is their trust in institutions affected? How does that impact their access to the very social and community supports needed to heal from that abuse? And most importantly, how do we walk besides these survivors in their own healing journey even as we struggle with our own feelings about faith and faith communities?Topics in this episode:Research decisions (1:37)Similarities and differences (5:03)Impact on belief (9:43)Advice for child abuse professionals (15:25)Entrapment (18:19)Implications for clergy and the church (20:26)Future research (23:51)What survivors need (25:44)Reason to hope (31:17)Links:Anna Segura-Montagut, Ph.D., clinical psychologist; assistant research scientist, Family Translational Research Group at NYU Dentistry Center for Oral Health Policy and Management“An Exploratory Study on Mental Health, Social Problems and Spiritual Damage in Victims of Child Sexual Abuse by Catholic Clergy and Other Perpetrators,” N. Pereda, L. Contreras Taibo, A. Segura Montagut, F. Maffioletti, Journal of Child Sexual Abuse 31(2):1-19. DOI: 10.1080/10538712.2022.2080142, May 2022Sherry Hamby, Ph.D., appeared on One in Ten on February 14, 2020. Her interview was later republished on August 6, 2020, as part of our “Best of the Best” series. “Greater Than the Sum—Multiple Adversities in Children's Lives”Victoria Banyard, Ph.D. For more information about National Children's Alliance and the work of Children's Advocacy Centers, visit our website at NationalChildrensAlliance.org. Or visit our podcast website at OneInTenPodcast.org. And join us on Facebook at One in Ten podcast. Support the show

Rachel Mastrogiacomo was groomed for predation while studying theology in Rome to serve the Catholic church. Her predator was a deacon at the time, and later was ordained a priest, serving in San Diego. On two occasions, this now-former priest, Jacob Bertrand, held private masses with then-24 year-old Rachel, during which he raped her. He told her that in complying with her rape she was becoming Christ's special bride. Rachel suffered devastating life consequences because of the Satanic Ritual Sexual Abuse by Bertrand. After years of silence and shame, Rachel told her diocese of the abuse, but to no avail. Her pleas for help and justice from the Diocese of San Diego, led by Bishop Robert McElroy, were ignored, denied, and deflected. Finally she was forced to go public and take her abuser to court. Bertrand ultimately confessed and was convicted of ritual rape. What triggers Rachel now and provokes revictimization is the promotion of Bishop McElroy from San Diego to the cardinalate, for he failed to act when she reported Bertrand to the diocese and is failing to protect the vulnerable from Bertrand.

*Warning: Parts of this episode may be disturbing to some listeners* This month, a national organization for clergy abuse victims will launch its first support group in Rhode Island. It's known as SNAP, which stands for the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests. We talk with the new group's co-leaders- psychologist Dr. Ann Hagan Webb and Claude Leboeuf. Tips and ideas? Email us at rinews@globe.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A church is where an insecure sixteen-year-old girl should feel welcome, happy, and most importantly, safe. Tragically for some, the church can become a place of great harm. In her book, Let Me Prey Upon You, Sandy Phillips Kirkham details her account of how a charismatic youth minister preyed upon her, a betrayal which left her broken, with a shattered faith, and the ultimate shame of being blamed and forced from the church she loved. From their very first meeting, the new youth minister slowly and methodically turned the sacred relationship of a trusted spiritual leader to one of abuse: sexual, emotional, and physical. When his actions were discovered, he was simply moved to another church, leaving Sandy to pay for his deeds. She was not his first victim, nor would she be his last. Despite a successful and happy life as a wife, mother, and friend, Sandy successfully concealed her abuse for twenty-seven years until a trigger forced her to face the truth. Sandy's story will take you on her journey of healing which began in 2004, first by seeking justice and closure from both the pastor and the church. Her strength and courage will inspire you. Let Me Prey Upon You details Sandy's journey from innocent sixteen-year-old victim to survivor and advocate. Sandy Kirkham and her husband Bill enjoy life with their two grown children, two beautiful granddaughters, and two fairly well-behaved dogs. Sandy continues to use her voice to help victims of clergy abuse. She currently serves on the board of Council Against Child Abuse. Sandy has spoken before the Ohio Senate, a Maryland court, and appeared on a local television show in Boston. Her story, “Stolen Innocence,” was told in a documentary produced by The Hope of Survivors. Sandy works with survivors conducting victim support conferences. She has participated in The Voice of the Faithful (VOTF) panels moderated by SNAP (Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests), sharing her perspective from the non-Catholic point of view. Sandy has been a presenter/speaker at major events on clergy abuse including the Hope & Healing Conference. https://sandyphillipskirkham.com/  https://www.facebook.com/KirkhamAuthor/  _______________________________________________________________ Listen to more episodes at https://ResilientLifeHacks.com  MY BOOKS: Undefeated: From Trial to Triumph, How to Stop Fighting the Wrong Battles and Start Living Victoriously https://www.amazon.com/Undefeated-Trial-Triumph-Stand-Strong/dp/1640850872   Undaunted in Darkness: Finding Your Path From Broken to Bold, Your Daily Battle Plan for a Winning Life https://www.amazon.com/Undaunted-Darkness-Finding-Broken-Strong/dp/B09MYR8TH9/ Get my TOP 20 RESILIENT LIFE HACKS here! https://elizabeth-meyers.ck.page/1a1ef0ef89 Join our RESILIENT LIFE TRIBE: https://facebook.com/groups/resilientlifetribe 

Welcome to Linda's Corner.  In this episode, Amy Nordhues talks about overcoming the tragedy of clergy and therapist abuse.   Amy is the author of “Prayed Upon,” she is also an abuse survivor, and an advocate for victims of clergy and therapist abuse.  You can learn more about Amy and her book at her website https://amynordhues.com.Some of the highlights Amy shares:How past abuse can make an adult vulnerable to predatorsAmy shares her personal story of being manipulated and sexually abused by her trusted, highly recommended therapistInsight into how this could happen - gaining perspective from the point of view from the victimThe process of healing from past abuseIf you've been abused by a trusted authority figure, you're not alone and it's not your faultTransitioning from thinking "I'm garbage" to "I am the daughter of the King"  And morePlease share, subscribe, leave a rating and review, visit the Linda's Corner website at lindascornerpodcast.com and/or follow on youtube, facebook, instagram, and pinterest @lindascornerpodcast. Thanks! 

Laura Barringer is an outspoken advocate for the wounded resisters of institutional abuse. Laura is co-author of A Church Called Tov: Forming a Goodness Culture That Resists Abuses of Power and Promotes Healing. Laura is a curriculum writer for Grow Kids, a ministry of Stuff You Can Use. She previously co-authored the children's version of The Jesus Creed and wrote a teacher's guide to accompany the book. She published articles for The Jesus Creed and The Englewood Review of Books, and her writing has been featured in Church Leaders, The Roys Report, and Converge Summit. Laura is a graduate of Wheaton College.

We start this afternoon in Ukraine – where Russia's accused of threatening global food supply and people trapped inside are hopeful they'll be rescued from a besieged steel plant in Mariupol. Americans had to reach deeper into their pockets in March, according to the Fed's favorite inflation measure. Pope Francis is calling for more accountability for clergy child sexual abuse and action to support survivors. Plus – a deadly blast in Kabul and Elon Musk's getting his funds in order.  To learn more about how CNN protects listener privacy, visit cnn.com/privacy

Does America believe female sexual abusers actually exist? When we think about child sexual abuse, don't we automatically picture in our mind a father, a stepfather, a Boy Scout leader, a male neighbor, a coach, or a priest? Our minds go there for a very good reason, and that is that 97% of convicted sexual offenders are, in fact, male. But we know that female-perpetrated child sexual abuse does exist.What are the sort of perceptions—and misperceptions—that abound around this? What are the myths that exist about female-perpetrated sexual abuse? And how do these perceptions differ depending on who the woman is? What if it's an aunt, or female clergy, or even a teacher? Maybe, most interestingly, as you'll hear, a teacher most of all. We know from research that the traumatic impacts of female-perpetrated abuse are real and long-lasting. Does the general public actually believe the same? And how do we address the biases around this that may prevent victims from being believed and helped? Take a listen to our interview with Dr. Caitlyn Muniz.Topics in this episode:Why research this topic (1:58)The focus on teacher/student cases (3:59)Effect of authority roles (6:21)Research findings (10:27)What the general public might think (20:00)Disclosures and reactions (24:30)Cultural biases harm victims (34:23)Advice for child abuse professionals (41:19)Future research (44:00)Share the episode (47:16)Links:Caitlyn N. Muniz, Ph.D., is assistant professor in the Department of Criminal Justice at The University of Texas at El Paso“The Influence of Authority Role and Victim Gender on Perceptions of Female-Perpetrated Child Sexual Abuse,” Caitlyn N. Muniz, Ráchael A Powers, Child Maltreatment, July 26, 2021researchgate.net/profile/Caitlyn-MunizFor more information about National Children's Alliance and the work of Children's Advocacy Centers, visit our website at NationalChildrensAlliance.org. Or visit our podcast website at OneInTenPodcast.org. And join us on Facebook at One in Ten podcast.Support the show (https://www.nationalchildrensalliance.org/donate-now/)

Guest Bios Show Transcript If a pastor or someone in spiritual authority lures a married adult into a sexual relationship—is that abuse or an affair? And can an adult engage in a sexual relationship, but not be culpable because she was manipulated by a sexual predator? On this episode of The Roys Report, Julie explores this very difficult and sensitive issue with Dr.

Support the Show:https://www.patreon.com/preacherboys Purchase a Preacher Boys shirt, mask, sticker, or other merch to rep the show! https://www.teepublic.com/user/preacher-boys-podcast_______________________________________________________Purchase a copy of The Child Safeguarding Policy Guide here: https://amzn.to/3dp2Qdu​_______________________________________________________Contact Boz Tchividjian: https://www.landispa.com/attorneys/boz-tchividjian/386-734-3451boz@landispa.com_______________________________________________________An experienced litigator who has handled hundreds of civil and criminal cases, Boz Tchividjian has dedicated his career to empowering survivors of sexual abuse, sexual assault, and sexual harassment to seek justice against perpetrators, as well as employers and other institutions who fail to protect people from abuse. Prior to joining the firm as a civil litigator in 2001, Boz served as an Assistant State Attorney in the 7th Judicial Circuit of Florida, where he created the first Sex Crimes Division at the Office of the State Attorney and served as Division Chief. In that position, Boz personally prosecuted hundreds of sexual victimization cases and supervised the prosecution of thousands more.Boz is the Founder of GRACE, an internationally recognized nonprofit organization that equips religious organizations with the tools they need to correctly respond to allegations of sexual abuse and educates them on how to create safeguards to protect children in their communities. As a renowned expert on sexual abuse, particularly within faith communities, Boz has been widely quoted in media outlets such as The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Huffington Post, and NBC Nightly News.Boz is the co-author of  The Child Safeguarding Policy Guide, a handbook for religious institutions looking to improve their child protection policies. He has also published scholarly articles such as, “Predators and Propensity: The Proper Approach for Determining the Admissibility of Prior Bad Acts Evidence in Child Sexual Abuse Prosecutions” (American Journal of Criminal Law) and “Catching American Sex Offenders Overseas: A Proposal for a Federal Mandated Reporting Law” (UMKC Law Review). Boz also wrote a weekly column for the Religious News Service.Boz also served as a professor at Liberty University School of Law where he taught employment law, criminal law and procedure, and child abuse law. Boz currently serves as an adjunct professor at Stetson University where he teaches employment law and other business law-related courses.Boz is Of Counsel with the firm and represents abuse victims from around the country.Areas of Practice:Sexual AbuseChild sexual abuseAdult sexual assaultWorkplace sexual harassment and discriminationAll other forms of discrimination and harassment in the workplaceGeneral employment lawPersonal injuryEducation:Samford University Cumberland School of Law, JDStetson University, BABar Admissions:State of Florida, 1993_______________________________________________________Find more stories regarding the IFB movement by visiting:preacherboysdoc.comhttps://www.facebook.com/preacherboysdochttps://twitter.com/preacherboysdochttps://www.instagram.com/preacherboysdoc/To connect with a community who share the Preacher Boys Podcast mission to expose abuse in the IFB, join the OFFICIAL Preacher Boys Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1403898676438188/Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/preacher-boys-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy