Podcasts about hail marys

"Busy but broke" — it's the phrase Christina hears more than any other from real estate investors who come to Simple CFO. In this episode of the Simple CFO Case Files, she sits down with senior CFO Michael Glaspie, one of the longest-tenured members of the Simple CFO team, to break down exactly why that happens and how a real financial system fixes it.Michael walks through what separates a CFO from a bookkeeper or CPA, how the first 60 days of a client engagement actually work, why education without application is just entertainment, and two client stories that show what it looks like when Profit First finally clicks — including a couple doing 50–60 flips a year who discovered they were actually losing money.Timeline Highlights[0:23] Introducing senior CFO Michael Glaspie and why "busy but broke" is the most common phrase Simple CFO hears[1:51] What client businesses look like before and after Simple CFO in one sentence[3:00] Why industry knowledge is the thing that separates a great CFO from a good one[5:17] Why bad bookkeeping is the root of overpaying taxes, losing loans, and bleeding cash[9:39] Why a CFO think tank beats a solo practitioner every time[12:30] What the first 60 days actually look like: the battle plan call and backwards math[13:45] The expense analysis: evaluating bookkeeper accuracy and finding trends[14:33] How to find the root cause — is it leads, or is it flips running 270 days instead of 120?[16:38] Why you can start Profit First today — but accurate numbers unlock the exponential growth[17:54] Education without application is just entertainment — why reading the book isn't enough[19:34] Why Profit First is never one-size-fits-all and has to be customized to the business[20:19] Client story #1: the wholesaler living paycheck to paycheck — fixed with one account[21:28] Client story #2: great years, huge tax bills, no money set aside — and how 18 months changed everything[23:22] How the Simple CFO dashboard tracks real-time KPIs connected directly to QuickBooks[25:21] Full transformation story: the couple doing 50–60 flips who discovered they were actually losing money[26:43] How switching from flips to wholesaling, adding coaching, and JV-ing on student deals changed everything[28:22] Where they are today: traveling, paying themselves, and living the life they originally started the business forKey TakeawaysBusy and broke is not a revenue problem — it's a systems problem. The right financial infrastructure changes everything.Bad bookkeeping is the root cause of overpaying taxes, losing loans, and not knowing where cash goes.The CFO is the quarterback of the financial team — and you want one who's been to the Super Bowl, not one throwing Hail Marys.The first 60 days are about finding the real break-even number, cleaning the books, and identifying the true root cause of financial pain.Education without application is entertainment — reading Profit First and implementing it are completely different things.You don't always need to scale. Sometimes you need to strip the business back to what you actually intended when you started it.One account — owner's pay — can be the single shift that changes how a business owner feels about their entire business.Links & ResourcesBook a discovery call to find out exactly where your money is going and how to keep more of it: simplecfo.comClosingThanks for listening to the Simple CFO Case Files on the Profit First for Real Estate Investors podcast. If you found this helpful, make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss our guest interviews and Profit First conversations with David Richter. If you're ready to bring clarity and structure to your finances, visit profitrei.com to apply for a free financial discovery call with our team.

In this powerful episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Tony and Jesse dive deep into Matthew 21:33-46, examining Jesus's parable of the wicked tenants. The hosts unpack how Christ masterfully draws the Pharisees into pronouncing their own condemnation, revealing not merely theological error but intentional usurpation of God's authority. Through careful exegesis, they explore the shocking setup of the parable—where the landowner does all the work while the tenants contribute nothing—and how this mirrors God's sovereign initiative in salvation. The discussion touches on confession, the value of full-time ministry, and the scandal of rejecting the Messiah despite recognizing His authority. This episode challenges listeners to examine whether they, like the Pharisees, attempt to claim God's work as their own. Key Takeaways God Does All the Verbs: The parable emphasizes that the landowner planted, built, protected, and prepared everything—the tenants contributed nothing yet claimed ownership of the fruit. Self-Pronounced Condemnation: Jesus draws the Pharisees into declaring their own judgment, demonstrating that even the unregenerate conscience bears witness to divine justice (Romans 2). Intentional Usurpation, Not Mere Error: The Pharisees weren't well-intentioned but misguided; they recognized Christ's authority as the heir and deliberately murdered Him to seize His inheritance. The Scandal of Grace: The parable's shocking element is that the landowner prepared everything before leasing the land—far exceeding normal agricultural arrangements and illustrating God's unmerited favor. Ecclesial Support for Ministry: The OPC presbytery's decision to fund a full-time call demonstrates how church structure can honor the ministry of Word and sacrament by freeing ministers from worldly distractions. Particular Repentance Matters: Westminster Confession 15.5 teaches that believers should not content themselves with general repentance but "endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly." The Stone Rejected Becomes Chief: Christ's citation of Psalm 118 reveals that the very rejection by the builders (religious leaders) was God's plan to establish the cornerstone of salvation. Key Concepts God Does All the Verbs The concentration of action verbs attributed solely to the landowner in Matthew 21:33 is theologically significant. The landowner plants, builds, digs, and rents—creating a fully functional, productive vineyard before the tenants ever arrive. This arrangement differs radically from typical first-century agricultural practices, where tenants would lease raw land and develop it themselves, sharing profits with the landowner. Jesus deliberately presents an extraordinary scenario where the tenants receive everything prepared and ready, requiring only stewardship of what already exists. This parallels God's sovereign initiative in election and salvation: believers contribute nothing to their standing before God, receiving instead a fully accomplished redemption. The Pharisees' rebellion wasn't against burdensome requirements but against simply acknowledging God's rightful ownership of what He alone created. Intentional Usurpation, Not Mere Error The hosts challenge the common sympathetic reading of the Pharisees as well-intentioned legalists who simply got sidetracked. Instead, verse 38 reveals the tenants explicitly recognize the son as heir and plot to murder him to "seize his inheritance." This isn't accidental rejection but calculated rebellion. The Pharisees weren't confused about Jesus's identity or authority—they understood precisely who He claimed to be and deliberately chose to destroy Him rather than submit. This interpretation carries significant weight for understanding the nature of unbelief: it's not primarily intellectual confusion but volitional rebellion. The religious leaders didn't need more evidence or clearer teaching; they needed transformed hearts. This same dynamic appears whenever humans recognize divine truth yet choose self-sovereignty over submission to God's rightful claim on their lives. The Scandal of Grace The parable begins with a scandalous premise that would have startled Jesus's original audience. Unlike normal tenant farming arrangements where landowners simply provided land in exchange for a share of whatever the tenants produced through their own labor, this landowner invests everything. He doesn't just own the property—he plants the vineyard, constructs the protective wall, digs the wine press for production, and builds the watchtower for defense. The tenants receive a turnkey operation requiring minimal effort. This extravagant preparation mirrors God's unmerited favor toward Israel and, by extension, the church. God didn't merely create humanity and wait to see what we would produce; He established covenants, sent prophets, preserved His Word, and ultimately sent His Son—all before requiring any response. The only "payment" demanded is acknowledging His ownership of what He created. The parable thus exposes the absurdity and ingratitude of claiming God's work as our own achievement. Memorable Quotes God does all the verbs. All of the verbs are done by the landowner. There is nothing expected of these tenants—they really add nothing to the landowner's land. Christ is not painting the Pharisees as well-intentioned but ultimately wrong. He's painting them as usurpers who recognize the proper authority and rather than submitting to it, they're going to reject that authority and try to take it for their own. Men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly. (Westminster Confession 15.5) Transcript Welcome to episode 491 of the Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse.  [00:01:12] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother.  [00:01:17] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother.  [00:01:18] Parable of Tenants [00:01:18] Jesse Schwamb: So picture this, Tony, your landlord. You've built the perfect vineyard. We're talking wall watchtower, wine, press, the works like what everybody says. Everybody knows you need all those things. You've got it all set up, and then you hand the keys to some tenants. You take a long trip, you go enjoy yourself. And when the harvest rolls around, you send your servants to collect the rent. And shockingly, your tenants, they beat. Stone. Another, the kill a third. So naturally you think, you know what? I'll fix this. Lemme just send more people. That's obviously the problem. There's some kind of just profound misunderstanding about what's going on here and about our relationship in this business. And then when that doesn't work, you send your son now loved ones. If this were a business strategy, we would already be calling hr. But of course it's not a business strategy, it's a parable. And Jesus is telling it to the very people about to prove the parable true. So welcome back to the Reformed Brotherhood because we're in Matthew Chapter 21 and we're gonna be actually getting all the way into the parable of the Vine growers where the patience of God looks, I would say, to almost anybody else, to humanize at least almost reckless until you realize that's exactly the point. So yeah, grab your beverage of choice, grab your Bible, pull the car over, will you? Because this is gonna get real and we're going to reason together. But before we do all of that, let's do a little affirming with or denying against, what do you got?  [00:02:41] Inside Baseball Affirmation [00:02:41] Tony Arsenal: So this is a sort of inside baseball, uh, affirmation. Um, I'm not sharing anything, although it may feel like I'm sharing something that is private and like, uh, like confidential. It's not No, this is good. Um, so I had the opportunity to visit. Um, my presbytery, um, for those who are listeners of the show or people who like, have been with us a long time, um, I was part of a Baptist church. Uh, I've always kind of been a Presbyterian at heart, but, um, our church closed, uh, a little over a year and a half ago now. And, um, uh, I've joined an OPC congregation in membership now. We've been members there for about a year. And, um, so I've been visiting Presbytery, which is the, the meeting of all of the leadership of all of the churches. So we won't do a polity breakdown here, but basically like, it's, it's the regional meeting. It's the regional business meeting or church meeting for a group of churches in the OPC, the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. And so a lot of the meetings, you know, have the normal kind of business type stuff. You have reports from different committee committees and stuff. Um.  [00:03:48] Presbytery Call Debate [00:03:48] Tony Arsenal: Where this is affirmation is coming in here is at this most recent presbytery meeting, um, was pretty heavy on, um, licensing or, or, uh, not licensing on approving men who had received a call to formal ministry within the presbytery. And so in the OPC, and I would imagine that other Presbyterian bodies are not like super different, although I'm sure there's some variation in the OPC. Um, when a church intends to extend a call to a pastor, to a teaching elder, um, to a minister, they must have the call, which is. Is both theological but is also eminently practical. Like the call is a physical piece of paper that details, you know, what the pay is, how much vacation time. So it's kind of a combination between like a theological call and also a contract. Um, the presbytery has to approve that call. And so at this most recent one, there was a couple calls that were more or less uncontroversial. There was no question about them, and they were approved pretty quickly. But there was one call, um, one call to ministry that took, I, I, I didn't time it, but it was probably like four or five hours of debate and discussion in various fashion in order to get to a point where the presbytery could approve the call. So this was a call to a minister who is being called part-time, which is unusual in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. Um, the OPC uh, acknowledges the fact that bivocational tent making ministry is sometimes a necessity, but really views the ministry of the word in sacrament as something that should not have. Distractions. And actually our book of church order talks about, doesn't use the word distraction, I think, but it talks about a, a properly ordered call to a full-time minister includes phrasing that the congregation promises to compensate them in a way that allows them to be free of worldly burdens and cares. And I might have not, not have gotten that wording exactly right. But that's the idea. And so this call was. Explicitly, um, not a full-time call it, they actually took the language out of promising to pay him in a way that he's able to ignore or to not be distracted by worldly care. And that was intentional, but there was a lot of question in discussion at presbytery level about the fact that the call did not include the phrase or the wording of part-time or bivocational. So the conversation started out of like, can this call be modified to include that? So it's explicitly known in this man's call that his calling is part-time, which is both theological, to make sure that the call is properly formatted, but also like very practical that the congregation should acknowledge explicitly that they recognize that this person is not, not going to be putting, you know, 40 hours a week or 50 hours a week towards this position. [00:06:34] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:06:34] Tony Arsenal: Um. What I'm affirming is where it got to, right? So there was lots of discussion about that. There was some finagling about the retirement package. The OPC recommends that a, a minister be given a retirement contribution of no less than 5% a year of his salaried package. Um, which there's a couple line items that go into that, but 5%, and this was a little bit less than that. And this is what I'm affirming and this, I, I don't know that this is a super widespread thing that would happen all across the, um, the OPC, but it happened in the presbytery of New York and New England this past week, and it's just amazing. And I just, I just want to lay it out there and then I want to hear your reaction. [00:07:13] Funding Full Time Ministry [00:07:13] Tony Arsenal: And I, I wanna hear your reaction as the son of a minister who labored his entire adult, more or less, his entire adult career in ministry, working two or three additional jobs on top of his ministry, the presbytery decided. That because it did not like the idea of a part-time minister. They didn't think that was appropriate. They didn't think that that was good or that that was really the right goal. The presbytery allocated, I'm not gonna say the figures 'cause they're not super germane, but allocated a significant amount of money to be dis to be dispersed to the church for the next three years in order to take what was a part-time call and enable it to become a full-time call. [00:07:54] Jesse Schwamb: Wow.  [00:07:54] Tony Arsenal: And so there are a lot of, there are a lot of church bodies that would say, yeah, we don't love the idea of bi-vocational ministry. You know, we really think it's ideal that a minister could be full-time. Um, they may even put some, some theological freight behind that. Um, I have never encountered a body, um. That was willing to put a sizable amount of money towards essentially supplementing a part-time call to make it full-time. Um, this was just amazing to me, and the candidate was there. I didn't get a chance to talk to him, but I would love to talk to him about what he felt. I, I can just imagine the phone call to his wife who was not, not at presbytery, but to his wife, following the outcome of this to be like, you are never gonna believe what just happened. Right? This is a family who was intending to move across country. Right. He's currently a student at Westminster, California in seminary, uh, California, Westminster Seminary in California, finishing his M Div. They're planning a cross country move into a part-time position where she's probably gonna have to find a job, and then also he's gonna have to find a part-time job. He had the ability to call her on the break and be like, you're never gonna guess what just happened? You're never gonna,  [00:09:09] Jesse Schwamb: it's wild.  [00:09:09] Tony Arsenal: Uh, sorry, I'm getting a little emotional here. You're never going to. Believe how faithful God is in this. Right. So I'm interested to hear your reaction to that as the son of a, of a try and quad at times Quad vocational. Yeah,  [00:09:23] Jesse Schwamb: for sure.  [00:09:23] Tony Arsenal: Minister who labored his entire, more or less, his entire adult career, um, working full-time in a call as a part-time, part-time minister. You know, like that's a, that's a crazy situation. So I'm just affirming that again, I don't know how common that kind of thing is in the OPC. I don't wanna make it seem like that's the norm. Um, I actually get the sense that this is probably not the norm, but it was amazing to see and it made me in intensely like. Proud in the right way of being a part of this broader body that would, would so emphasize and so value the ministry of the word and the sacrament, and the importance of a man being able to dedicate himself to that without distraction. That they would put forward this amount of money and this kind of money. They had no reason to do so. And there's no real direct benefit to the presbytery for doing this. I mean, there's an indirect benefit of like not having a church with a part-time minister, but like there's no direct benefit to this. There's no direct return on investments that's gonna come out of this. Um, it was pretty amazing to see. It was, it was, it was super encouraging.  [00:10:28] Jesse Schwamb: That is really encouraging. I, I think it's, there's no doubt that for the called pastor, their heart is in the ministry of the word. That's what they want to be doing. They wanna be doing it all the time and as much time as they possibly can, and they wanna be able to have all of their intentional focus on it. So I. I'm excited for that guy. I mean, that's just an incredible blessing to go in hoping for funding, essentially for a part-time role and to basically be told, no, no, no, no, that's, that's not enough. We want you to be committed to this fully as we know your heart is committed. As we validated that call.  [00:11:00] Why Structure Matters [00:11:00] Jesse Schwamb: I do love being a part of churches, well, lemme say it this way. There is, I think, a benefit of being part of congregations that have like a wide resource network that has like appropriate hierarchy and structure and that can be one of them. I've seen something similar in the Christian Missionary Alliance, which is the church that I'm in, not exactly the same, but I've seen some surprising allocations of resources where they basically said, you know, this is important. Like, it even trumps we're, we're gonna. Allocate or resource something so that this can move forward because it is important in a way that was like better than the person who was bringing it before them could have hoped for. Yeah. And uh, suddenly it's as if everything aligned. And it was really in part because there was this structure to come alongside, to validate as you're saying, and then to authenticate and then again to resource assets that could be used. There's, there's something to be said for that interdependency where there is kind of this hierarchical structure in which all that's happening at a level where things are codified. And again, like there's a structure and a way in which we move through those decisions to make sure that they suit the objective of the entire movement. So I guess there's nothing I'll say, but that's a beautiful thing, isn't it?  [00:12:14] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:12:15] Generosity in Action [00:12:15] Tony Arsenal: It was, it was, it was cool because it was like this, it was like this real. Actualization of the principle of outdoing one another and showing honor. Yeah, sure. Because you know, like the initial debate was like, Hey, you know, I'm not sure we can approve this call because the, the OPCs guidelines tell us not to approve a call that has less than 5% of the retirement benefit. And there was a lot of discussion of like, well, the presbytery can't modify the call, but we don't wanna delay this guy coming in and like, we don't wanna delay his ordination, his installation. And so the initial proposal was a, a. What feels like a large amount of money to me. But after I understood more about the, the budget of what's going on in, in the presbytery was actually a very small amount of money. Started with a very tiny, very modest proposal of basically like supplementing the retirement fund to make sure that like we could, they, I say we, like, I was part of this, I was just observing, but to supplement the retirement fund in a way that allowed the church to still proceed with the call as written, but still also make sure that this person had the appropriate retirement fund. And then that just basically was like, there would be some instruction given to the church that like, you've gotta bump this up in the next budget cycle. Like you've gotta get to the 5%. That's, that's the expectation. It went from that. And like I said, I won't give you the specific numbers, but one of the presbyters and I, I'm, I, um, I, I've known this presbyter from a distance for quite a long time and, and I have an immense amount of respect for him. He stood up and he's like, well, if we're gonna give X, why don't we just give 10 times X instead? And then actually, like the discussion was like, well, is, are we sure that 10 times X is even the right amount? Why don't we have this particular group meet over the lunch break and figure out whether that's the right number and then come back after lunch and we'll vote on it. And then they came back after lunch and it was actually a number that was even greater than 10 times X. So it was like this exercise in like. This very small proposal that was still imminently generous, right? The presbytery has no obligation to do this. There's no obligation from any of the presbyters to stand up and say like, we should. We should supplement this fund. They would've been well within their right, and no one would've looked, I think. I think some people would've been frustrated by it, but I don't think anyone would've looked sideways at it or thought it was sinful. If the presbytery just said like, we can't approve this call. You guys are gonna have to come back with it and we'll vote on it at the next presbytery. Like that would've been problematic. This, this kind of poor guy who's coming outta seminary, his call and his beginning of employment would've been delayed, but like. That would've been good and orderly, but instead they were like, one, we don't want this pulpit to stay empty longer. We don't wanna disadvantage this guy who's just getting done with seminary. We want him to get started. We don't wanna discourage him. So here's a small proposal, a very modest amount of money that we can put forward for this purpose. And then it was like, let's just keep seeing how much closer to a real full-time call we can get. And they finally came back and said like, we're gonna do this. We're gonna do this in a wise fashion. They structured it. So like the first year he gets more, the second year he gets a little bit less. The third year the church gets a little bit less with the idea that like each year the church should be adjusting their budget to compensate and get this guy to that with the, the hope that like with a full-time minister, they're able to grow their congregation to the point where they can support a full-time minister. So it was just this really cool, super encouraging exercise. And what I loved about it is the only real debate that was going on was about do we need to do more? There was no one being like, wait a second, why are we, why are we putting more money to this? The whole thing was like, is this actually enough to accomplish what we think God wants to do with this person's call? Because if, if God is truly calling this man to this, this particular church, and we believe that he is. Then what do we as a, as a people of God need to do to enable that call to look like what we actually believe calls to ministry are supposed to look like, which is a full-time call to ministry that is undistracted by the cares of the world. What do we need to do? The answer in this case was like, I think we need to put a sizable amount of money to it. Um, it's a, I mean, and again. I'm not gonna say it on the air. It was not a small chunk of change. Um, it was, it was a, it was a large amount of money that was devoted to this cause and that just goes to show how much this body values the importance of a full-time minister of the word, so. [00:16:50] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:16:51] OPC Love and Recommendation [00:16:51] Tony Arsenal: That's enough about that. I, I could gush about how proud I am to be a part of this body and how encouraged I am and how amazing it was and how awesome this, this guy, how, how much this guy must be thanking God for the providence and like, this is the last thing. I'll say this, this young man younger than me, I think he's graduating seminary. I saw him across the room. He looks like he's probably in his mid twenties, right? Young guy. He's got a wife doesn't have kids yet coming into this ministry, not only is he coming into this ministry, but as a Presbyterian minister, when he's installed as the minister of this church. He will be joining this body of presbyters as the, as his brothers like. He is not a member of the local church. He's a member of the presbytery, which is the regional church. So now he's coming into this fully supported by his brothers in the presbytery that he saw go to the mat to make sure he was properly taken care of, that the congregation was not unintentionally taking advantage of his labor, but also that he knows that all of these men are willing to do what they need to do to make sure that his ministry is successful and edifies the church like that is. Uh, I don't want to gush on Presbyterianism too much, but like that is Presbyterianism at peak form, right? This is the body of elders making sure that every church in the region, even the ones they're not directly ministering in, has what it needs to succeed and to honor God and to do what needs to happen. So I'm affirming the presbytery of New York and New England and the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. Um, I have been so blessed by knowing many of these presbyters. I've been so blessed by being a part of the congregation that I am. There are lots of really great churches and really great denominations out there. If you are looking for a church and there is an OPC congregation in your area, absolutely go check it out. I know it feels stuffy sometimes, and I will admit, like sometimes it feels a little bit overly traditional in terms of like just the vibe of the congregation,  [00:18:52] Jesse Schwamb: right?  [00:18:52] Tony Arsenal: But press past that because I don't think, I don't think you will find, um. You may find lots of congregations that are as faithful. I don't think you're gonna find many that are more faithful than your average OPC congregation. So I could be wrong. I just, I just love the OPC. I just really, really love it. So that's my affirmation. What do you got for us, Jesse?  [00:19:18] Denial Catholic Confession Math [00:19:18] Jesse Schwamb: I think I got denial, which is maybe a little bit unusual for me. [00:19:21] Tony Arsenal: As long as you're not denying the OPCI think we're fine.  [00:19:23] Jesse Schwamb: No, it's, it's not, it is church related and I, I'll try to keep it short 'cause I think I can make this way longer than it, it probably should be, but lemme think how to phrase this. So, I don't know with a devil negative, I guess when I'm a denying against is maybe not enough confession by your own standard. So the, I'm gonna try to make this so brief. I, I just happened to be out with my wife this afternoon and we had to run errands. We got stuck in traffic and this gave me longer than usual to sit in front of our. Very local and very large Catholic church. So I happen to be looking at their sign. It's a very large congregation. I've been actually been in this one on a couple of occasions for funerals. So not only do I know its size and scope, but again, if you get, if you get on this road at the wrong time on the Lord's day, you're gonna be stuck for a long time because there are so many people that attend. I say that because I noticed on the sign that there were three times for mass on the Lord's Day. So that also says something about the number of people coming through. And then on the sign though, underneath it said for confessions, go to our website. Mm-hmm. So I was like, man, I gotta lick this up because I can't tell if they're telling me I can confess on the website or if it's go to the website for the times. And I said to my wife, only half jokingly, if I can confess online, I'm gonna confess something. So I went to, I went to the website and, and sure enough it was almost disappointingly. It was just the times.  [00:20:45] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:20:46] Jesse Schwamb: Here's what I've found interesting, which just launched me into this like deep rabbit hole. There were three times for confession. Two of those times were just a half an hour, and the third time was an hour. So, uh, what I did was I went through, actually, I think what they had on there was, was three full hours a week. It was a little bit confusing, but I think it was three full hours. Now I think about it. So I went back, I just couldn't help myself, Tony. So I started to think, alright, let's say. I think it's fair to assume  [00:21:15] Tony Arsenal: math, Jesse is kicking in right now. Yes. You're gonna calculate how many minutes per, per person is what you're doing. I'm thinking, ah,  [00:21:22] Jesse Schwamb: yeah, it's something like that. So what I thought was, I don't think it's, uh, I was gonna be conservative. I wanna be fair. I wanna be fair. So, and now we should say like, I think most people realize that the Catholic understanding of confession and the Protestant one is, is very different. The Catholic sacrament of confession is the right through which Catholics are gonna confess their sins to a priest receive absolution, and it's gonna restore the relationship with God in the church. And, and they're gonna believe that the priest acts as a person of Christ and is bound by the seal of confession and an absolute kind of obligation. Uh, of course never to reveal what was disclosed during that process. So, by the way, the website that I went to, lovely instructions. I mean, I was like, wow. I was reading it to my wife who was, uh, not familiar with this at all, and she was like, they can make you do stuff. And I was like, well, yeah. I mean, obviously like there's, there's a portion of this where there's contrition or penant penance. It could be a prayer, it could be act of charity, like all kinds of stuff. So I went back and I thought. I don't think it's unreasonable that there's 350 persons that would say, let's say an average, uh, that would wanna take part of confession. Now, let's say that they did that at, at least monthly, just once a month. And, and I don't know how people's conviction is on that, but I'm gonna say conservatively once a month. Let's say that, and I don't think this is unreasonable, Tony, but you tell me. Let's say you're, you're trucking, you're moving through confession. Let's say it's five minutes a piece. So we're up to 1,750 minutes, uh, per month. That's the demand on the priest because I was, I was looking at this time and I was thinking something is strange here to me, so. That was the demand then, and I'll spare you the other math, which could be very long and un uninteresting. I'm coming up with, you'd need 2.24, two and a quarter priests, which of course you can't have a quarter priests or a quarter person for any reason. So you'd hire, you'd hire three priests, which satisfy the demand if, and the major assumptions here, that is like everybody can't show up at the same time. Obviously, I'm assuming that like everybody has their own time, they're spreading it out. So everybody gets the confession, but it's just five minutes. And I, I have no idea. I mean, if you're a Luther, that's certainly not sufficient time.  [00:23:20] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:23:20] Jesse Schwamb: And you would need three priests. Now here's the thing that I just kind of backed into that, besides like three being like, okay, that, that's, you would need three priests just to satisfy this congregation. If they're confessing for five minutes, once per month. Uh, by the way, if you said, well, half the congregation is going to go weekly, uh, then you, you would double the number of priests you need to 5.98 or six. But here's, here's the bottom line for me. This is why the denial comes in about maybe not enough, is. If you were just to distill that down to like, if you could have one priest cover that time, that there's a demand for like 779.4 hours, or excuse me, minutes of confession, that priest would only be allocating approximately like seven and a half percent of their working hours, their work toward handling confession. This seems like not enough confession given the standards of confession in the Catholic church. And again, I know that I'm, I'm now allocating that to one priest and I just told everybody you need three. That's true. So if you had these three now, if you hired three just to meet the demand, that would only be about like three and a half or a little under three and a half percent of their combined time. So the denial is Catholics, I think, unless I'm way off in some of my assumptions here, you might not be confessing enough by your own standards because  [00:24:33] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:24:34] Jesse Schwamb: Uh, that seems like not enough time.  [00:24:38] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:24:39] Ritual Faithfulness Explained [00:24:39] Tony Arsenal: I mean, I think, um. I don't want to be too bombastic here, but I think,  [00:24:46] Jesse Schwamb: I think I already started this on this  [00:24:48] Tony Arsenal: path. Maybe this, maybe this isn't all that bombastic. Um, because this is so much about ritual and actually I say this is gonna sound really, we, we go, but trying to think from the Roman Catholic perspective, it's actually not, and I'll I'll tell you a brief story, uh, to explain it. Um, a lot of Roman Catholics are just going through the motions. [00:25:13] Jesse Schwamb: That's true.  [00:25:14] Tony Arsenal: But the point, the, the, the point of contention actually is that going through the motions is valuable for the Roman Catholic, right? So I, I knew this, uh, this young woman when I was in college who was a Roman Catholic, and we had many discussions about, about the differences between Protestantism and and Roman Catholicism. And what I came to understand is that going to mass for her. Itself was an act of faith. And so for the Roman Catholic, the concept of, of faith is different than the concept that Protestants operate under. So for the Roman Catholic who, um, goes to mass, even when they feel like they're, like, when they think they're just going through the motions, going through the motions is itself the act of faith. And that's because for most of Roman Catholics, most of Roman Catholicism, faith really equals faithfulness, right? So, so doing the act is the act of faithfulness. Doing the act is faith. Where for the Protestant, like faith is about belief and trust and knowledge. Like it's, it's an. Not entirely intellectual, but it's, it's an inward thing for the Roman Catholic faith is an out is primarily an outward thing. It's what you do, it's how you act. It's faith formed in love. It's faith formed in charity.  [00:26:36] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:26:37] Tony Arsenal: So I think most Roman Catholics going to obligatory confession first. I think once a month is probably like, probably more frequent than most Roman Catholics go to mass or go to confession. Um, I thought I read a stat that it was like every six months is, is pretty average and I think that's what's required by the church maybe even once a year is, is required by the church. Um, I think like most Roman Catholics go into the, the confessional booth and like father forgive me for I've sinned. It's been such and such a number of days since my last confession. Right. And they may bring up a couple particular things that they've done and, and then I think the priest commonly absolves them of all of their sins. Like, almost like in an omnibus fashion and then prescribes their acts of penance, which is it, it like, honestly, it's probably things they should already be doing as a faithful Catholic saying Hail Marys and doing our fathers and acts of charity and things like that. So I think your math is probably right. [00:27:39] Protestant Repentance Particular [00:27:39] Tony Arsenal: I think your, your theory that more confession is probably like, I'm gonna read this from, uh, the Westminster confession, just to, just to say it here, is, this is chapter 15, which is titled of Repentance Under Life. And this is, uh, this is section five or paragraph five. It says, men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but is every man's duty to endeavor, to repent of his particular sins, particularly. And I think that's just such a beautifully phrased sentence like. Not only is it like potent theologically, but like, it just, it just feels good, like in terms of like the English language to repent of your particular sins, particularly. And like the idea is yes, Protestant reform, Christians affirm a general repentance from sin, right? We repent of our sin before the father, uh, as a result of our, of our coming to faith in Christ. And as part of our sanctification, we mortify our sin and we, Viv we are vivified by the spirit and repentance falls in that ongoing sanctification process. And there is this general repentance of like, I repent of the fact that I'm a sinner and that I commit sins, but there is this element in the reformed faith of like, I should be confessing to God. And I think by extension, like we should be confessing to our fellow Christians, our particular sins, our individual sins, and we should be doing that on particular occasion. And I think like. The Luther style confession of like going into the confessor and confessing like every particular sin. Particularly I think most Roman Catholic priests would, priests. Priests would probably have the same reaction Tobits did where he was like, get outta here. Like, come on dude. Like just go live your life and like deal with it. I think that's probably the reaction most Catholic priests would have. But yeah, I think you're right. Like if we're really talking about like. Five, five minutes of confession once a month and that somehow having some sort of spiritual efficacy. I'm not sure I buy that math. Like I think you're, you're probably spot on.  [00:29:47] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah.  [00:29:47] Confession Hours Oddities [00:29:47] Jesse Schwamb: I just was curious about how many priests would be required and then the allocation of the duties. By the way, you are right. So I, because I had to check on this, the, the fourth letter in council of 1215 does say that the church requires confession of any grave or mortal sins at least once a year. But the church, yeah, strongly encourages more frequent confession as a spiritual practice, even for, of course, like the venial or the less serious sins in their eyes. So yeah, my thought here was just that. I think it's actually undervalued by way of the math. Like the, as the kids say, the math just isn't math thing for me on this one. But I was more curious about, since this is one of the seven sacraments, even if you just said like, well, it should have at least one seven of the allocation. That's like, what? Like something like 14%. And so this is, um, almost half of that. I just found it a little bit, a little bit odd and yeah, I think you'd have to be, uh, so in other words, when I looked at the, basically, here's the bottom line. When I looked at the hours for confession one, there were weird times and uh, two, I was like, that doesn't seem like enough hours. Like, it was just more like that. Like how that's like saying like, Hey, the post office is open three hours a week, and by the way, one of those hours is from seven to eight o'clock on Friday. Like they had some hours. One hour just on Friday was like, I guess that's the way you wanna start your weekend is like, let's get all of this off my chest. Yeah. And, and do it. Right. And the last thing I'll say by the way, is you're correct. When you look at the instruction they give you, and this is common of course, toward the end, when they say like, here's how you like wrap up your part. Actually everybody should go read, go to the local, local Catholic church website and read the instructions. 'cause in some ways they're just interesting and kind of, um, I don't wanna say funny 'cause I'm not making fun. I'm just saying like, they have to give you instruction if you've never done it before. And so most of us are not really probably familiar with the process and they give you explicit instruction and toward the end it's like, here's how you kinda like hang up the call with the priest. And it's like you said, you know, these are my sins and all others, would you be willing to forgive? So you're right. Right. They just kinda wrap them all up because it's sins of omission, sense of commission, it's all to be together. But I, I wonder, you gotta think there's people in there that are like. The priests are like, okay, man, just yeah. Wrap, come on, wrap, wrap it up.  [00:31:55] Confession Timing Talk [00:31:55] Jesse Schwamb: And other people that come in are just like, you know, forgive me father. And uh, lastly to your point, when they give you instruction about how you should start, of course you're always to signify how long it's been since your last confession. Right. Confession. And they say parenthetically, like, reference the days, weeks, months, or years. So you're right. There are gonna be people that probably do it very frequently and probably people who do it infrequently still, I would say I just couldn't believe for a church this large, that there was just three hours a week.  [00:32:21] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:32:21] Jesse Schwamb: For everybody else.  [00:32:22] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:32:23] Vance and Papal Authority [00:32:23] Tony Arsenal: This leads me to two very brief sub, uh, denials slash affirmations. Uh, I don't know if you saw this, um, this is not a political statement, right? I, I have lots of feelings and thoughts about the current administration and I think most of my feelings and thoughts would surprise. Everybody. But I thought it was hilarious because JD Vance, who is a Roman Catholic, uh, confessed Roman Catholic part of the Roman Catholic Church, uh, he ha I, I'm not sure if I'm affirming or denying this, there was this funny, uh, funny exchange. I think he was at doing like a, doing like a TPU, I don't know, speech. He was doing a speech at some conservative event and he said something like, I think that the Pope should be more careful when he makes theological statements. I'm wanna be like, do you understand what the pope is in your religion? That was one of my sub denials. Uh, I don't remember what the other one is, so it must not have been that important. It'll come back to me at the worst possible moment and I will try very hard not to interrupt our show for it, but I probably will fail.  [00:33:25] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah.  [00:33:25] Reading Matthew 21 [00:33:25] Jesse Schwamb: Listen, we, we gotta get to some scripture because. We're, we're doing this old school style where we take like half the time and just talk about affirmations. It's true in house. It's true. Which is great fun. But let's, let's get back to Matthew 21. And I, I know we did this last time, but I am gonna rock through the passage 'cause of course, that's the best part of any of our discussion, is actually hearing from, from the Holy Spirit through the scripture, uh, which he's given to us. So this is, uh, Matthew 21, starting in verse 33. And you're gonna hear the, the whole thing right here. Uh, this is Jesus speaking. Listen to another parable. There was a landowner who planted a vineyard and put a wall around it and dug a wine press in it and built a tower and rented it out to vine growers and went on a journey. Now, when the high risk time approached, he sent his slaves to the vine growers to receive his fruit, and the vine growers took his slaves and beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. Again, he sent another group of slaves larger than the first, and they did the same thing to them. But afterward he sent his son to them saying they will respect my son. But when the vine growers saw the sun, they said among themselves, this is the heir. Come let us kill him and seize his inheritance, and they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine growers? They said to him, he will bring those wretches to a wretched end and will rent out the vineyard to other vine growers who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons. Jesus said to them, did you ever read in the scriptures the stone, which the builders rejected? This has become the chief cornerstone. This came about from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes. Therefore, I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation producing the fruit of it. And he who falls in the stone will be broken to pieces, but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust. And when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they understood that he was speaking about them. And although they were seeking to seize him, they feared the crowds because they're regarding him to be a prophet. [00:35:28] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:35:30] Pharisees Condemn Themselves [00:35:30] Tony Arsenal: This is like a super heavy parable. Right. And we talked a lot last week about how like the point of this parable is not necessarily to try to instruct the Pharisees or the Sadducees. Like it's not to instruct the people who were going to reject Christ, uh, the, the builders who would reject the cornerstone. It's really a parable to teach those. Who are observing this process happening. But I think it's, I, I think it's really interesting just listening to you read this and reading through it, and I guess this is a question I haven't asked and I, I need to study a little bit more. It's crazy to me in verse 41, um, Christ seems the, the, the, um, Matthew seems to say here, and maybe I need to do a little bit more Greek study, so bear with me and, and have grace if I'm wrong here. Matthew seems to say that like Christ asks the people he's speaking to, the Pharisees he's speaking to, what is he gonna do to these people? And the Pharisees answer, he's gonna put those wretches to a miserable death.  [00:36:36] Jesse Schwamb: Right?  [00:36:37] Tony Arsenal: Like the people listening to this parable understand the outcome, like they understand the. The consequence that the, the, the vineyard owner or the vineyard tenant tenants are facing based on their lack of faithfulness to the covenant. To me, that is like a really striking part of this parable. And, and it's not even like the parable proper, but like the striking element of the context of this is that nobody listening to this parable, including the Pharisees that this parable has basically spoken against, nobody fails to see the gravity of the consequence of rejecting God's emissary, like rejecting the Messiah. That to me is like a really, I dunno, paradigmatic. Portion of this that I think we need to grapple with. This is not an unclear, an unclear outcome. This is not, this is not masked or vague or OPA opaque. Like everybody understands, the people who reject the Messiah are going to face dire and eternal consequences for that act. [00:37:48] Jesse Schwamb: That does make this really interesting, doesn't it? Because it's not just entirely like Romans one adventures or even Romans two. It's that this is what Jesus does and he does it in a profound way that's not trickery like I think kinda like you're saying like the lead up to this isn't as if he's even leading the witness. He's making it very clear, all like the parameters of the story and the characters involved and what should be the proper judgment. And it's not as if like they start saying, they're like, oh, we shouldn't say anything more like we, we plead the fifth because it's gonna condemn ourselves. He draws his audience in to producing and pronouncing like their own sentence. It's very much like, I think I mentioned this last time, the prophet Nathan and David, isn't it? It's the exact same. Yeah. And the verdict is unanswerable, like even in its own terms. These other, like these other vine growers, prefigures of course like the inclusion of the Gentiles and the apostolic office. But I like that what Jesus does here, even before he gets to that point, is he extorts from them an acknowledgement of the punishment which awaited them. And so in this way there's like, I think the Puritans use this passage a lot actually to demonstrate that the natural conscience even of like the unregenerate, still bears witness to divine justice. That's Romans two. Like they, they can't get out from underneath it and Jesus isn't using any trickery on them to get them to say this thing. They are compelled in their own way, even being unregenerate to, like you said, even as they're rejecting the Messiah to recognize that punishment is due these characters in the story, even as they perceive at the end that they are those characters. [00:39:21] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:39:22] Jesse Schwamb: Saying we'll receive the judgment.  [00:39:24] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:39:25] Usurpers Not Misguided [00:39:25] Tony Arsenal: And I think too, like, um, this is kind of one of those chicken or the egg scenarios, right? Like Christ is both recognizing the intention of their heart as well as prophesying. And, and not just prophesying, but like inception level prophesying the, the outcome of the intention of their heart. And so like, again, like we've, we spent a whole week kind of like leading into the parable and now we spent a whole week, we're gonna spend a whole week again kind of leading into the parable. This is such a deep parable, and that like Christ is not just laying bare. The fact that the, the people who were going to reject him were doing so out of this sort of like attempt and intention of usurping the kingdom of God for their own purposes. I think that brings a layer to this that we don't often appreciate in. Christ's interaction with the Pharisees. I think sometimes, and maybe this is because I just listened to an episode of where Matt Whitman on the 10 minute Bible hour talked about this. I think sometimes we actually have a tendency to sort of be sympathetic to the Pharisees where we think, you know, they were, they were just trying to obey God's law and they got a little sideways on it and you know, they were putting these boundaries in place, but they were doing it in this sort of like misguided attempt to protect the people. Christ actually here seems to contradict that in that the comparison he's making is not to a, a well-intentioned group of people who just get it wrong, but he's painting the Pharisees, the, the religious leaders, the Sadducees, the chief priests. He's painting them as these usurpers who recognize the proper authority of right. The master and his emissaries and ultimately of his son, they recognize this proper authority and rather than submitting to it and submitting to the covenant obligations that they, they already actually agreed to, instead of doing that, they're going to reject that authority and try to take it for their own right. It's not just that they do the wrong thing, it's that they recognize the heir, which is Christ. They recognize this heir and they kill him to try to take his place. That is a really heavy element of this parable. Christ is not painting. Um, the, the, the Pharisees here, the, the religious leaders. He's not painting them as um, well-intentioned, but ultimately wrong, which is I think a lot of times, and I think there's reason to do this right. I'm not being overly critical and I've done this, I've actually done this myself, and I think there's some. Space for it. Like the Pharisees were wrong, but they were wrong, kind of in the right direction sometimes. Um, Christ is not really on board with that, at least in this parable. Right. This isn't about them thinking that the heir was a threat, and so killing the threat in, you know, inadvertently this is them absolutely seeing who the hair, who the heir is, and intentionally deciding to reject that heir and to murder him and to try to take his inheritance. Mm-hmm. That's an affront to not only the heir who they murder, but an affront to the owner of the vineyard himself, which of course in this parable is figured to be God the father primarily. But God in sort of general terms, like the whole Godhead, um, with Christ as the second Adam has, as his representative, as his heir. This is a really heavy parable and I think where this comes into play for us in our own Christian life is. Are there times where we. Sort of do the same thing in refusing to, maybe it's tie into your denial a little bit. Like refusing to acknowledge our own sinfulness, refusing to acknowledge the ways that God has provided for us. Um, do we at times look at what we have and lay claim to it as though it is our own inheritance that we've taken? Um, right. Do we kind of crucify the son of God anew in, in refusing to repent of our sins particularly? I dunno. I think those are some open questions for us to kind of explore as we dig into this a bit more. [00:43:54] Jesse Schwamb: And that may relate as well to, well eventually at some point, I dunno, like 2040, get to like the parable of the talents. There's some similarity there with a little bit, right? You're saying? I think you're right.  [00:44:06] God Does All the Verbs [00:44:06] Jesse Schwamb: And where I think we can anchor some of that is in those first couple of verses. I'm really always impressed by really the number of action verbs that are packed within, like that just initial statement of Jesus explaining the situation. [00:44:19] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:44:19] Jesse Schwamb: So he sets it all up and he's saying there's a planting that goes on, this landowner puts up a wall, digs a wine press. Builds a tower and then RINs it. So there's all these like amazing things being done, all this action verb. And I, I think in part why he comes against the Pharisees so hard in the same way that we're looking at like the parable that, uh, the, uh, talents for instance of saying like, what did you do with that was entrusted to you was like this great treasure which Christ has entrusted or God has entrusted to his people, which is, is the gospel essentially is, is all a prophetic witness, is like the truth of who God is and his revelation of himself. And so I think. The first thing we gotta see in those verbs is that there's this emphasis that the vineyard was God's sovereign creation. You know, he plants it, he chose it, he established it. Israel didn't plant herself. She was planted. And that sovereign initiative is foundational, I think in, like you're saying, the parables indictment, because these vine growers, they don't possess anything that they did not receive. Right. You know, they did not find a vineyard already planted, but God himself made it from the wilderness that all his glory, all the glory might be his. So. I think it's helpful for us to observe that the church is always the planting of the Lord and that no congregation flourishes that is not first planted by God. And so there is a major offense here when those who are to care for it, who know, like you're saying, that they ought to care for it, who understand something about the hierarchy and the way it has been entrusted to them. Not to only break that covenant, but then seek to try to usurp the power in the roles of those whom they should be, quite frankly, in our own language, like under shepherds too. And so it starts with all, all those verbs. Like I think we could probably spend a. A lot of times just speaking about what does it mean? Why? Why is there all this explicit in particular language about the fact that there's a hedge and there's a press besides just these are part in piece mail or part and parcel of what it means to have a vineyard, apparently, but that they're all part of this narrative of God talking about how he protects and cares for his people and sets them in a place and chooses them and is particular about the construction and does so with great volition and authority and care and concern and creative ability. And then again, you have those who are meant there to do the very job that he's entrusted them with. And not only are they not doing that, and of course you're right. Jesus elsewhere, comes in, comes in hot, right, with a Pharisees saying like, listen, you set burdens on people's backs that you yourselves cannot lift. You're twice as in the hell as anybody else, and that's who you are. Yeah. It's not just hypocrisy, but you're literally setting people up to fail in this. So you can see how you're right. It's not just like, guys, I appreciate that. Like you wanted to set up some additional boundaries and maybe you took it a little bit too far. This parable is just scorched earth. It's, it's nuclear. Yeah.  [00:47:10] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:47:11] Scandalous Vineyard Setup [00:47:11] Tony Arsenal: And you know, I think, um, we are obviously gonna spend another week on this 'cause we still have not really addressed a single verse in this parable. I, I think like a lot of ink has been spilled on explaining sort of like the feal agricultural arrangements of this passage. What it represents. M my understanding is. A typical arrangement would be that a, a landowner would basically just lease out land and the tenants would be responsible for the planting, for the development. Right. And the, the, the landowner would essentially just collect a portion of whatever they produce. Right. This parable is actually taking this a step further. Exactly. That it's not as though the landowner just says like, all right, you can use this land. Right. And I own the land, so I get a portion of the pro, the profit. He's actually done all the work. Yes. And all that. The, all that the, the tenants need to do essentially is reap the harvest and then provide the portion of the harvest that belongs to the landowner, and so there is a greater investment. Of the landowner into this land than would be expected. We've commented in the past about how a lot of times the, the parables start on sort of a premise of shock. Like there's a, there's an element of the setup of the, of the parable where the audience would kind of like sit back and gasp or kind of be like, wait a second. Like that's not normal. Right. In the parable of the, the, um, lost son, it was the idea that like the son demanded his inheritance. And that wasn't the shocking part. The shocking part was that the father just granted it. Right. Or, um, the lost sheep, like the, there's actually a sort of a shocking element to the fact that like the, the land, the like sheep owner would just go get this other sheep. So we've, we've commented on there's kind of like. There's sort of like a scandalous setup. The scandalous setup in this is not that the land has been leased to tenants, right? It's that the land has been prepared for the tenants before it was leased out in the first place. And I think that's something we might miss if we read over this too quickly, is. The landowner has prepared everything for these, these tenants.  [00:49:30] Jesse Schwamb: That's right.  [00:49:31] Tony Arsenal: So the, the, at the, the punchline of the parable where they refuse to acknowledge the sovereignty of, um, sovereignty and maybe a lowercase s in the, in the context of the parable, they refuse to acknowledge the sovereignty and the rightful claim of the tenant or of the landowner on the, the profit of the land. And sort of like highlighter emphasized by the fact that they actually didn't do any of the work. There's a certain kind of like Amer, like American rugged individualism where we're kind of like, yeah, like if I planted all the crops, then it's kind of lame that this guy's coming in expecting to take a portion of it, right? Like, yeah, I guess he owns the land, so maybe he gets a little piece of it, but like, who does he think he is? All of that already is already short circuited. Like I. The, these tenants are not actually, um, portrayed as doing anything in this parable. That's right. Like they just lease the land. They, they, um, and leased is not really like the right. The right word, the, the Greek word is omi, which is like he gave over the land to them. Um, when we say leased, we have this idea that like the tenants pay to use the land and then like part of their contract is that whatever profits they reap, uh, off the land goes back to the, to the landowner. This is really more like the landowner graciously allowed them to live on this land, and the only payment he required was that they would eventually provide him part of the profit back. Like he's planted the land, he's put up the fence around it. He dug the wine press so that they could make a product out of it. He built the tower so it would be defended. Yes. And he gave it over to them essentially just to like live on until it was time for the harvest. And all he is asking for is basically like, alright, so this is my land. I've planted the vineyards, the profit is mine to have. And so when the time came for him to come claim that that's where they have now rejected him. Yes. That's where they've now said like, I know you did all the work and really graciously allowed us to live in this land, but we're gonna keep all of it for ourselves. That's the scandal of this. That's what I think like the original audience would've set up and like, wait a second here. Like, hold on. They didn't even plant the vineyards themselves. They didn't even build the tower themselves. That's really the force of this that I think we miss when we, when we overemphasize, trying to think through like what the original agricultural arrangements were. 'cause this is painted. Very different than what the original arrangements would've been typical for. Like this is a different scenario and I think intentionally so,  [00:52:09] Jesse Schwamb: and we need those words like rented, at least in English, to help us understand that it didn't belong to them. It wasn't a gift, right? It wasn't as if like it was just turned over in the sense that it belongs to you now do with it what you will. And it's very clear in the passage one, like you said, that the landowner does all those things. So it was a, you know, he completely set it up. I mean, this is just such a beautiful, I think, depiction of the hold of prophetic, you know, understanding of God's word here, but it's very clear that says the, he sent his slaves to the vine growers to receive his fruit. So you're right. The scandal is that they're like, well, obviously. They need to give him his fruits, like  [00:52:48] Tony Arsenal: right.  [00:52:48] Jesse Schwamb: It was all set up before he left on this long journey. He then turned it over to them to care for, and that was really all that they were supposed to do. They had no role in this. And so it does like lead us in into this weird space where it's like, well, well what, what did the Pharisees think they were trying to do themselves? What does actually Jesus commenting on, on their own, like licit on their own initiative here, is he basically saying that not only are they not respecting his sovereignty, but they were trying to claim for themselves what only rightly belongs to God that even their position right. Society in culture as their representatives, God himself, they wanted to take that over for themselves, which he does bring that condemnation upon them in other parts of the scripture. So again, this is really hot. I think it's a, it's both heat and light, but there's no doubt that there's fire to this, right? Because it's a direct indictment that God the father set all of this up. You yourselves are on rented property, but guess what? Even the property that you've rented, I'm not exacting a tax from you as if like you have put forward and grown or supplied or created some kind of profitable outcome here. And I just want a piece of that. He's not even talking about tithing in that sense. What he's basically saying is, none of this belongs to you. Like how? Right? How dare you? None of this is yours. I set all of this up and in fact, because you've done so poor poorly at this, I'm gonna take it away from you and give it to those who actually produce fruit and guess what's gonna be the Gentiles? So it's, there's a wild. Amounts of condemnation packed into a very small story.  [00:54:19] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. It really is.  [00:54:22] Tenants Add Nothing [00:54:22] Tony Arsenal: Um, there is nothing expected of these tenants. Right. There's no contract, like there's no terms, they, they really add nothing to the, the landowner's land, except I guess maybe they're the ones harvesting these, this fruit. Right. But even that's not explicit in the parable.  [00:54:43] Jesse Schwamb: Exactly.  [00:54:43] Tony Arsenal: Right. Right. He, he does all just to steal your thunder, like he does all the verbs. Yes. All of the ves are done by the landowner.  [00:54:50] Jesse Schwamb: Yes. Right  [00:54:51] Tony Arsenal: on. There is an implication that the, the tenants are somehow like the ones harvesting this, or they're the ones producing the wine, I guess, in the wine vat or the wine press. But at the end of the day. A normal tenant landowner agreement would be, I'm, you're, first of all, you're probably gonna pay me to use this land, right? You're paying me to use this land, and the way you pay me is you're gonna plant the, the gr the crop. You're gonna harvest it. You're gonna make the produce, and all I'm gonna do is let you live on this land. I'm gonna take the pro, like the profit, you're gonna pay me outta that profit. There is nothing asked or expected of these, th

In this powerful episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Tony and Jesse dive deep into Matthew 21:33-46, examining Jesus's parable of the wicked tenants. The hosts unpack how Christ masterfully draws the Pharisees into pronouncing their own condemnation, revealing not merely theological error but intentional usurpation of God's authority. Through careful exegesis, they explore the shocking setup of the parable—where the landowner does all the work while the tenants contribute nothing—and how this mirrors God's sovereign initiative in salvation. The discussion touches on confession, the value of full-time ministry, and the scandal of rejecting the Messiah despite recognizing His authority. This episode challenges listeners to examine whether they, like the Pharisees, attempt to claim God's work as their own. Key Takeaways God Does All the Verbs: The parable emphasizes that the landowner planted, built, protected, and prepared everything—the tenants contributed nothing yet claimed ownership of the fruit. Self-Pronounced Condemnation: Jesus draws the Pharisees into declaring their own judgment, demonstrating that even the unregenerate conscience bears witness to divine justice (Romans 2). Intentional Usurpation, Not Mere Error: The Pharisees weren't well-intentioned but misguided; they recognized Christ's authority as the heir and deliberately murdered Him to seize His inheritance. The Scandal of Grace: The parable's shocking element is that the landowner prepared everything before leasing the land—far exceeding normal agricultural arrangements and illustrating God's unmerited favor. Ecclesial Support for Ministry: The OPC presbytery's decision to fund a full-time call demonstrates how church structure can honor the ministry of Word and sacrament by freeing ministers from worldly distractions. Particular Repentance Matters: Westminster Confession 15.5 teaches that believers should not content themselves with general repentance but "endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly." The Stone Rejected Becomes Chief: Christ's citation of Psalm 118 reveals that the very rejection by the builders (religious leaders) was God's plan to establish the cornerstone of salvation. Key Concepts God Does All the Verbs The concentration of action verbs attributed solely to the landowner in Matthew 21:33 is theologically significant. The landowner plants, builds, digs, and rents—creating a fully functional, productive vineyard before the tenants ever arrive. This arrangement differs radically from typical first-century agricultural practices, where tenants would lease raw land and develop it themselves, sharing profits with the landowner. Jesus deliberately presents an extraordinary scenario where the tenants receive everything prepared and ready, requiring only stewardship of what already exists. This parallels God's sovereign initiative in election and salvation: believers contribute nothing to their standing before God, receiving instead a fully accomplished redemption. The Pharisees' rebellion wasn't against burdensome requirements but against simply acknowledging God's rightful ownership of what He alone created. Intentional Usurpation, Not Mere Error The hosts challenge the common sympathetic reading of the Pharisees as well-intentioned legalists who simply got sidetracked. Instead, verse 38 reveals the tenants explicitly recognize the son as heir and plot to murder him to "seize his inheritance." This isn't accidental rejection but calculated rebellion. The Pharisees weren't confused about Jesus's identity or authority—they understood precisely who He claimed to be and deliberately chose to destroy Him rather than submit. This interpretation carries significant weight for understanding the nature of unbelief: it's not primarily intellectual confusion but volitional rebellion. The religious leaders didn't need more evidence or clearer teaching; they needed transformed hearts. This same dynamic appears whenever humans recognize divine truth yet choose self-sovereignty over submission to God's rightful claim on their lives. The Scandal of Grace The parable begins with a scandalous premise that would have startled Jesus's original audience. Unlike normal tenant farming arrangements where landowners simply provided land in exchange for a share of whatever the tenants produced through their own labor, this landowner invests everything. He doesn't just own the property—he plants the vineyard, constructs the protective wall, digs the wine press for production, and builds the watchtower for defense. The tenants receive a turnkey operation requiring minimal effort. This extravagant preparation mirrors God's unmerited favor toward Israel and, by extension, the church. God didn't merely create humanity and wait to see what we would produce; He established covenants, sent prophets, preserved His Word, and ultimately sent His Son—all before requiring any response. The only "payment" demanded is acknowledging His ownership of what He created. The parable thus exposes the absurdity and ingratitude of claiming God's work as our own achievement. Memorable Quotes God does all the verbs. All of the verbs are done by the landowner. There is nothing expected of these tenants—they really add nothing to the landowner's land. Christ is not painting the Pharisees as well-intentioned but ultimately wrong. He's painting them as usurpers who recognize the proper authority and rather than submitting to it, they're going to reject that authority and try to take it for their own. Men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly. (Westminster Confession 15.5) Transcript Welcome to episode 491 of the Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse.  [00:01:12] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother.  [00:01:17] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother.  [00:01:18] Parable of Tenants [00:01:18] Jesse Schwamb: So picture this, Tony, your landlord. You've built the perfect vineyard. We're talking wall watchtower, wine, press, the works like what everybody says. Everybody knows you need all those things. You've got it all set up, and then you hand the keys to some tenants. You take a long trip, you go enjoy yourself. And when the harvest rolls around, you send your servants to collect the rent. And shockingly, your tenants, they beat. Stone. Another, the kill a third. So naturally you think, you know what? I'll fix this. Lemme just send more people. That's obviously the problem. There's some kind of just profound misunderstanding about what's going on here and about our relationship in this business. And then when that doesn't work, you send your son now loved ones. If this were a business strategy, we would already be calling hr. But of course it's not a business strategy, it's a parable. And Jesus is telling it to the very people about to prove the parable true. So welcome back to the Reformed Brotherhood because we're in Matthew Chapter 21 and we're gonna be actually getting all the way into the parable of the Vine growers where the patience of God looks, I would say, to almost anybody else, to humanize at least almost reckless until you realize that's exactly the point. So yeah, grab your beverage of choice, grab your Bible, pull the car over, will you? Because this is gonna get real and we're going to reason together. But before we do all of that, let's do a little affirming with or denying against, what do you got?  [00:02:41] Inside Baseball Affirmation [00:02:41] Tony Arsenal: So this is a sort of inside baseball, uh, affirmation. Um, I'm not sharing anything, although it may feel like I'm sharing something that is private and like, uh, like confidential. It's not No, this is good. Um, so I had the opportunity to visit. Um, my presbytery, um, for those who are listeners of the show or people who like, have been with us a long time, um, I was part of a Baptist church. Uh, I've always kind of been a Presbyterian at heart, but, um, our church closed, uh, a little over a year and a half ago now. And, um, uh, I've joined an OPC congregation in membership now. We've been members there for about a year. And, um, so I've been visiting Presbytery, which is the, the meeting of all of the leadership of all of the churches. So we won't do a polity breakdown here, but basically like, it's, it's the regional meeting. It's the regional business meeting or church meeting for a group of churches in the OPC, the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. And so a lot of the meetings, you know, have the normal kind of business type stuff. You have reports from different committee committees and stuff. Um.  [00:03:48] Presbytery Call Debate [00:03:48] Tony Arsenal: Where this is affirmation is coming in here is at this most recent presbytery meeting, um, was pretty heavy on, um, licensing or, or, uh, not licensing on approving men who had received a call to formal ministry within the presbytery. And so in the OPC, and I would imagine that other Presbyterian bodies are not like super different, although I'm sure there's some variation in the OPC. Um, when a church intends to extend a call to a pastor, to a teaching elder, um, to a minister, they must have the call, which is. Is both theological but is also eminently practical. Like the call is a physical piece of paper that details, you know, what the pay is, how much vacation time. So it's kind of a combination between like a theological call and also a contract. Um, the presbytery has to approve that call. And so at this most recent one, there was a couple calls that were more or less uncontroversial. There was no question about them, and they were approved pretty quickly. But there was one call, um, one call to ministry that took, I, I, I didn't time it, but it was probably like four or five hours of debate and discussion in various fashion in order to get to a point where the presbytery could approve the call. So this was a call to a minister who is being called part-time, which is unusual in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. Um, the OPC uh, acknowledges the fact that bivocational tent making ministry is sometimes a necessity, but really views the ministry of the word in sacrament as something that should not have. Distractions. And actually our book of church order talks about, doesn't use the word distraction, I think, but it talks about a, a properly ordered call to a full-time minister includes phrasing that the congregation promises to compensate them in a way that allows them to be free of worldly burdens and cares. And I might have not, not have gotten that wording exactly right. But that's the idea. And so this call was. Explicitly, um, not a full-time call it, they actually took the language out of promising to pay him in a way that he's able to ignore or to not be distracted by worldly care. And that was intentional, but there was a lot of question in discussion at presbytery level about the fact that the call did not include the phrase or the wording of part-time or bivocational. So the conversation started out of like, can this call be modified to include that? So it's explicitly known in this man's call that his calling is part-time, which is both theological, to make sure that the call is properly formatted, but also like very practical that the congregation should acknowledge explicitly that they recognize that this person is not, not going to be putting, you know, 40 hours a week or 50 hours a week towards this position. [00:06:34] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:06:34] Tony Arsenal: Um. What I'm affirming is where it got to, right? So there was lots of discussion about that. There was some finagling about the retirement package. The OPC recommends that a, a minister be given a retirement contribution of no less than 5% a year of his salaried package. Um, which there's a couple line items that go into that, but 5%, and this was a little bit less than that. And this is what I'm affirming and this, I, I don't know that this is a super widespread thing that would happen all across the, um, the OPC, but it happened in the presbytery of New York and New England this past week, and it's just amazing. And I just, I just want to lay it out there and then I want to hear your reaction. [00:07:13] Funding Full Time Ministry [00:07:13] Tony Arsenal: And I, I wanna hear your reaction as the son of a minister who labored his entire adult, more or less, his entire adult career in ministry, working two or three additional jobs on top of his ministry, the presbytery decided. That because it did not like the idea of a part-time minister. They didn't think that was appropriate. They didn't think that that was good or that that was really the right goal. The presbytery allocated, I'm not gonna say the figures 'cause they're not super germane, but allocated a significant amount of money to be dis to be dispersed to the church for the next three years in order to take what was a part-time call and enable it to become a full-time call. [00:07:54] Jesse Schwamb: Wow.  [00:07:54] Tony Arsenal: And so there are a lot of, there are a lot of church bodies that would say, yeah, we don't love the idea of bi-vocational ministry. You know, we really think it's ideal that a minister could be full-time. Um, they may even put some, some theological freight behind that. Um, I have never encountered a body, um. That was willing to put a sizable amount of money towards essentially supplementing a part-time call to make it full-time. Um, this was just amazing to me, and the candidate was there. I didn't get a chance to talk to him, but I would love to talk to him about what he felt. I, I can just imagine the phone call to his wife who was not, not at presbytery, but to his wife, following the outcome of this to be like, you are never gonna believe what just happened. Right? This is a family who was intending to move across country. Right. He's currently a student at Westminster, California in seminary, uh, California, Westminster Seminary in California, finishing his M Div. They're planning a cross country move into a part-time position where she's probably gonna have to find a job, and then also he's gonna have to find a part-time job. He had the ability to call her on the break and be like, you're never gonna guess what just happened? You're never gonna,  [00:09:09] Jesse Schwamb: it's wild.  [00:09:09] Tony Arsenal: Uh, sorry, I'm getting a little emotional here. You're never going to. Believe how faithful God is in this. Right. So I'm interested to hear your reaction to that as the son of a, of a try and quad at times Quad vocational. Yeah,  [00:09:23] Jesse Schwamb: for sure.  [00:09:23] Tony Arsenal: Minister who labored his entire, more or less, his entire adult career, um, working full-time in a call as a part-time, part-time minister. You know, like that's a, that's a crazy situation. So I'm just affirming that again, I don't know how common that kind of thing is in the OPC. I don't wanna make it seem like that's the norm. Um, I actually get the sense that this is probably not the norm, but it was amazing to see and it made me in intensely like. Proud in the right way of being a part of this broader body that would, would so emphasize and so value the ministry of the word and the sacrament, and the importance of a man being able to dedicate himself to that without distraction. That they would put forward this amount of money and this kind of money. They had no reason to do so. And there's no real direct benefit to the presbytery for doing this. I mean, there's an indirect benefit of like not having a church with a part-time minister, but like there's no direct benefit to this. There's no direct return on investments that's gonna come out of this. Um, it was pretty amazing to see. It was, it was, it was super encouraging.  [00:10:28] Jesse Schwamb: That is really encouraging. I, I think it's, there's no doubt that for the called pastor, their heart is in the ministry of the word. That's what they want to be doing. They wanna be doing it all the time and as much time as they possibly can, and they wanna be able to have all of their intentional focus on it. So I. I'm excited for that guy. I mean, that's just an incredible blessing to go in hoping for funding, essentially for a part-time role and to basically be told, no, no, no, no, that's, that's not enough. We want you to be committed to this fully as we know your heart is committed. As we validated that call.  [00:11:00] Why Structure Matters [00:11:00] Jesse Schwamb: I do love being a part of churches, well, lemme say it this way. There is, I think, a benefit of being part of congregations that have like a wide resource network that has like appropriate hierarchy and structure and that can be one of them. I've seen something similar in the Christian Missionary Alliance, which is the church that I'm in, not exactly the same, but I've seen some surprising allocations of resources where they basically said, you know, this is important. Like, it even trumps we're, we're gonna. Allocate or resource something so that this can move forward because it is important in a way that was like better than the person who was bringing it before them could have hoped for. Yeah. And uh, suddenly it's as if everything aligned. And it was really in part because there was this structure to come alongside, to validate as you're saying, and then to authenticate and then again to resource assets that could be used. There's, there's something to be said for that interdependency where there is kind of this hierarchical structure in which all that's happening at a level where things are codified. And again, like there's a structure and a way in which we move through those decisions to make sure that they suit the objective of the entire movement. So I guess there's nothing I'll say, but that's a beautiful thing, isn't it?  [00:12:14] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:12:15] Generosity in Action [00:12:15] Tony Arsenal: It was, it was, it was cool because it was like this, it was like this real. Actualization of the principle of outdoing one another and showing honor. Yeah, sure. Because you know, like the initial debate was like, Hey, you know, I'm not sure we can approve this call because the, the OPCs guidelines tell us not to approve a call that has less than 5% of the retirement benefit. And there was a lot of discussion of like, well, the presbytery can't modify the call, but we don't wanna delay this guy coming in and like, we don't wanna delay his ordination, his installation. And so the initial proposal was a, a. What feels like a large amount of money to me. But after I understood more about the, the budget of what's going on in, in the presbytery was actually a very small amount of money. Started with a very tiny, very modest proposal of basically like supplementing the retirement fund to make sure that like we could, they, I say we, like, I was part of this, I was just observing, but to supplement the retirement fund in a way that allowed the church to still proceed with the call as written, but still also make sure that this person had the appropriate retirement fund. And then that just basically was like, there would be some instruction given to the church that like, you've gotta bump this up in the next budget cycle. Like you've gotta get to the 5%. That's, that's the expectation. It went from that. And like I said, I won't give you the specific numbers, but one of the presbyters and I, I'm, I, um, I, I've known this presbyter from a distance for quite a long time and, and I have an immense amount of respect for him. He stood up and he's like, well, if we're gonna give X, why don't we just give 10 times X instead? And then actually, like the discussion was like, well, is, are we sure that 10 times X is even the right amount? Why don't we have this particular group meet over the lunch break and figure out whether that's the right number and then come back after lunch and we'll vote on it. And then they came back after lunch and it was actually a number that was even greater than 10 times X. So it was like this exercise in like. This very small proposal that was still imminently generous, right? The presbytery has no obligation to do this. There's no obligation from any of the presbyters to stand up and say like, we should. We should supplement this fund. They would've been well within their right, and no one would've looked, I think. I think some people would've been frustrated by it, but I don't think anyone would've looked sideways at it or thought it was sinful. If the presbytery just said like, we can't approve this call. You guys are gonna have to come back with it and we'll vote on it at the next presbytery. Like that would've been problematic. This, this kind of poor guy who's coming outta seminary, his call and his beginning of employment would've been delayed, but like. That would've been good and orderly, but instead they were like, one, we don't want this pulpit to stay empty longer. We don't wanna disadvantage this guy who's just getting done with seminary. We want him to get started. We don't wanna discourage him. So here's a small proposal, a very modest amount of money that we can put forward for this purpose. And then it was like, let's just keep seeing how much closer to a real full-time call we can get. And they finally came back and said like, we're gonna do this. We're gonna do this in a wise fashion. They structured it. So like the first year he gets more, the second year he gets a little bit less. The third year the church gets a little bit less with the idea that like each year the church should be adjusting their budget to compensate and get this guy to that with the, the hope that like with a full-time minister, they're able to grow their congregation to the point where they can support a full-time minister. So it was just this really cool, super encouraging exercise. And what I loved about it is the only real debate that was going on was about do we need to do more? There was no one being like, wait a second, why are we, why are we putting more money to this? The whole thing was like, is this actually enough to accomplish what we think God wants to do with this person's call? Because if, if God is truly calling this man to this, this particular church, and we believe that he is. Then what do we as a, as a people of God need to do to enable that call to look like what we actually believe calls to ministry are supposed to look like, which is a full-time call to ministry that is undistracted by the cares of the world. What do we need to do? The answer in this case was like, I think we need to put a sizable amount of money to it. Um, it's a, I mean, and again. I'm not gonna say it on the air. It was not a small chunk of change. Um, it was, it was a, it was a large amount of money that was devoted to this cause and that just goes to show how much this body values the importance of a full-time minister of the word, so. [00:16:50] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:16:51] OPC Love and Recommendation [00:16:51] Tony Arsenal: That's enough about that. I, I could gush about how proud I am to be a part of this body and how encouraged I am and how amazing it was and how awesome this, this guy, how, how much this guy must be thanking God for the providence and like, this is the last thing. I'll say this, this young man younger than me, I think he's graduating seminary. I saw him across the room. He looks like he's probably in his mid twenties, right? Young guy. He's got a wife doesn't have kids yet coming into this ministry, not only is he coming into this ministry, but as a Presbyterian minister, when he's installed as the minister of this church. He will be joining this body of presbyters as the, as his brothers like. He is not a member of the local church. He's a member of the presbytery, which is the regional church. So now he's coming into this fully supported by his brothers in the presbytery that he saw go to the mat to make sure he was properly taken care of, that the congregation was not unintentionally taking advantage of his labor, but also that he knows that all of these men are willing to do what they need to do to make sure that his ministry is successful and edifies the church like that is. Uh, I don't want to gush on Presbyterianism too much, but like that is Presbyterianism at peak form, right? This is the body of elders making sure that every church in the region, even the ones they're not directly ministering in, has what it needs to succeed and to honor God and to do what needs to happen. So I'm affirming the presbytery of New York and New England and the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. Um, I have been so blessed by knowing many of these presbyters. I've been so blessed by being a part of the congregation that I am. There are lots of really great churches and really great denominations out there. If you are looking for a church and there is an OPC congregation in your area, absolutely go check it out. I know it feels stuffy sometimes, and I will admit, like sometimes it feels a little bit overly traditional in terms of like just the vibe of the congregation,  [00:18:52] Jesse Schwamb: right?  [00:18:52] Tony Arsenal: But press past that because I don't think, I don't think you will find, um. You may find lots of congregations that are as faithful. I don't think you're gonna find many that are more faithful than your average OPC congregation. So I could be wrong. I just, I just love the OPC. I just really, really love it. So that's my affirmation. What do you got for us, Jesse?  [00:19:18] Denial Catholic Confession Math [00:19:18] Jesse Schwamb: I think I got denial, which is maybe a little bit unusual for me. [00:19:21] Tony Arsenal: As long as you're not denying the OPCI think we're fine.  [00:19:23] Jesse Schwamb: No, it's, it's not, it is church related and I, I'll try to keep it short 'cause I think I can make this way longer than it, it probably should be, but lemme think how to phrase this. So, I don't know with a devil negative, I guess when I'm a denying against is maybe not enough confession by your own standard. So the, I'm gonna try to make this so brief. I, I just happened to be out with my wife this afternoon and we had to run errands. We got stuck in traffic and this gave me longer than usual to sit in front of our. Very local and very large Catholic church. So I happen to be looking at their sign. It's a very large congregation. I've been actually been in this one on a couple of occasions for funerals. So not only do I know its size and scope, but again, if you get, if you get on this road at the wrong time on the Lord's day, you're gonna be stuck for a long time because there are so many people that attend. I say that because I noticed on the sign that there were three times for mass on the Lord's Day. So that also says something about the number of people coming through. And then on the sign though, underneath it said for confessions, go to our website. Mm-hmm. So I was like, man, I gotta lick this up because I can't tell if they're telling me I can confess on the website or if it's go to the website for the times. And I said to my wife, only half jokingly, if I can confess online, I'm gonna confess something. So I went to, I went to the website and, and sure enough it was almost disappointingly. It was just the times.  [00:20:45] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:20:46] Jesse Schwamb: Here's what I've found interesting, which just launched me into this like deep rabbit hole. There were three times for confession. Two of those times were just a half an hour, and the third time was an hour. So, uh, what I did was I went through, actually, I think what they had on there was, was three full hours a week. It was a little bit confusing, but I think it was three full hours. Now I think about it. So I went back, I just couldn't help myself, Tony. So I started to think, alright, let's say. I think it's fair to assume  [00:21:15] Tony Arsenal: math, Jesse is kicking in right now. Yes. You're gonna calculate how many minutes per, per person is what you're doing. I'm thinking, ah,  [00:21:22] Jesse Schwamb: yeah, it's something like that. So what I thought was, I don't think it's, uh, I was gonna be conservative. I wanna be fair. I wanna be fair. So, and now we should say like, I think most people realize that the Catholic understanding of confession and the Protestant one is, is very different. The Catholic sacrament of confession is the right through which Catholics are gonna confess their sins to a priest receive absolution, and it's gonna restore the relationship with God in the church. And, and they're gonna believe that the priest acts as a person of Christ and is bound by the seal of confession and an absolute kind of obligation. Uh, of course never to reveal what was disclosed during that process. So, by the way, the website that I went to, lovely instructions. I mean, I was like, wow. I was reading it to my wife who was, uh, not familiar with this at all, and she was like, they can make you do stuff. And I was like, well, yeah. I mean, obviously like there's, there's a portion of this where there's contrition or penant penance. It could be a prayer, it could be act of charity, like all kinds of stuff. So I went back and I thought. I don't think it's unreasonable that there's 350 persons that would say, let's say an average, uh, that would wanna take part of confession. Now, let's say that they did that at, at least monthly, just once a month. And, and I don't know how people's conviction is on that, but I'm gonna say conservatively once a month. Let's say that, and I don't think this is unreasonable, Tony, but you tell me. Let's say you're, you're trucking, you're moving through confession. Let's say it's five minutes a piece. So we're up to 1,750 minutes, uh, per month. That's the demand on the priest because I was, I was looking at this time and I was thinking something is strange here to me, so. That was the demand then, and I'll spare you the other math, which could be very long and un uninteresting. I'm coming up with, you'd need 2.24, two and a quarter priests, which of course you can't have a quarter priests or a quarter person for any reason. So you'd hire, you'd hire three priests, which satisfy the demand if, and the major assumptions here, that is like everybody can't show up at the same time. Obviously, I'm assuming that like everybody has their own time, they're spreading it out. So everybody gets the confession, but it's just five minutes. And I, I have no idea. I mean, if you're a Luther, that's certainly not sufficient time.  [00:23:20] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:23:20] Jesse Schwamb: And you would need three priests. Now here's the thing that I just kind of backed into that, besides like three being like, okay, that, that's, you would need three priests just to satisfy this congregation. If they're confessing for five minutes, once per month. Uh, by the way, if you said, well, half the congregation is going to go weekly, uh, then you, you would double the number of priests you need to 5.98 or six. But here's, here's the bottom line for me. This is why the denial comes in about maybe not enough, is. If you were just to distill that down to like, if you could have one priest cover that time, that there's a demand for like 779.4 hours, or excuse me, minutes of confession, that priest would only be allocating approximately like seven and a half percent of their working hours, their work toward handling confession. This seems like not enough confession given the standards of confession in the Catholic church. And again, I know that I'm, I'm now allocating that to one priest and I just told everybody you need three. That's true. So if you had these three now, if you hired three just to meet the demand, that would only be about like three and a half or a little under three and a half percent of their combined time. So the denial is Catholics, I think, unless I'm way off in some of my assumptions here, you might not be confessing enough by your own standards because  [00:24:33] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:24:34] Jesse Schwamb: Uh, that seems like not enough time.  [00:24:38] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:24:39] Ritual Faithfulness Explained [00:24:39] Tony Arsenal: I mean, I think, um. I don't want to be too bombastic here, but I think,  [00:24:46] Jesse Schwamb: I think I already started this on this  [00:24:48] Tony Arsenal: path. Maybe this, maybe this isn't all that bombastic. Um, because this is so much about ritual and actually I say this is gonna sound really, we, we go, but trying to think from the Roman Catholic perspective, it's actually not, and I'll I'll tell you a brief story, uh, to explain it. Um, a lot of Roman Catholics are just going through the motions. [00:25:13] Jesse Schwamb: That's true.  [00:25:14] Tony Arsenal: But the point, the, the, the point of contention actually is that going through the motions is valuable for the Roman Catholic, right? So I, I knew this, uh, this young woman when I was in college who was a Roman Catholic, and we had many discussions about, about the differences between Protestantism and and Roman Catholicism. And what I came to understand is that going to mass for her. Itself was an act of faith. And so for the Roman Catholic, the concept of, of faith is different than the concept that Protestants operate under. So for the Roman Catholic who, um, goes to mass, even when they feel like they're, like, when they think they're just going through the motions, going through the motions is itself the act of faith. And that's because for most of Roman Catholics, most of Roman Catholicism, faith really equals faithfulness, right? So, so doing the act is the act of faithfulness. Doing the act is faith. Where for the Protestant, like faith is about belief and trust and knowledge. Like it's, it's an. Not entirely intellectual, but it's, it's an inward thing for the Roman Catholic faith is an out is primarily an outward thing. It's what you do, it's how you act. It's faith formed in love. It's faith formed in charity.  [00:26:36] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:26:37] Tony Arsenal: So I think most Roman Catholics going to obligatory confession first. I think once a month is probably like, probably more frequent than most Roman Catholics go to mass or go to confession. Um, I thought I read a stat that it was like every six months is, is pretty average and I think that's what's required by the church maybe even once a year is, is required by the church. Um, I think like most Roman Catholics go into the, the confessional booth and like father forgive me for I've sinned. It's been such and such a number of days since my last confession. Right. And they may bring up a couple particular things that they've done and, and then I think the priest commonly absolves them of all of their sins. Like, almost like in an omnibus fashion and then prescribes their acts of penance, which is it, it like, honestly, it's probably things they should already be doing as a faithful Catholic saying Hail Marys and doing our fathers and acts of charity and things like that. So I think your math is probably right. [00:27:39] Protestant Repentance Particular [00:27:39] Tony Arsenal: I think your, your theory that more confession is probably like, I'm gonna read this from, uh, the Westminster confession, just to, just to say it here, is, this is chapter 15, which is titled of Repentance Under Life. And this is, uh, this is section five or paragraph five. It says, men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but is every man's duty to endeavor, to repent of his particular sins, particularly. And I think that's just such a beautifully phrased sentence like. Not only is it like potent theologically, but like, it just, it just feels good, like in terms of like the English language to repent of your particular sins, particularly. And like the idea is yes, Protestant reform, Christians affirm a general repentance from sin, right? We repent of our sin before the father, uh, as a result of our, of our coming to faith in Christ. And as part of our sanctification, we mortify our sin and we, Viv we are vivified by the spirit and repentance falls in that ongoing sanctification process. And there is this general repentance of like, I repent of the fact that I'm a sinner and that I commit sins, but there is this element in the reformed faith of like, I should be confessing to God. And I think by extension, like we should be confessing to our fellow Christians, our particular sins, our individual sins, and we should be doing that on particular occasion. And I think like. The Luther style confession of like going into the confessor and confessing like every particular sin. Particularly I think most Roman Catholic priests would, priests. Priests would probably have the same reaction Tobits did where he was like, get outta here. Like, come on dude. Like just go live your life and like deal with it. I think that's probably the reaction most Catholic priests would have. But yeah, I think you're right. Like if we're really talking about like. Five, five minutes of confession once a month and that somehow having some sort of spiritual efficacy. I'm not sure I buy that math. Like I think you're, you're probably spot on.  [00:29:47] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah.  [00:29:47] Confession Hours Oddities [00:29:47] Jesse Schwamb: I just was curious about how many priests would be required and then the allocation of the duties. By the way, you are right. So I, because I had to check on this, the, the fourth letter in council of 1215 does say that the church requires confession of any grave or mortal sins at least once a year. But the church, yeah, strongly encourages more frequent confession as a spiritual practice, even for, of course, like the venial or the less serious sins in their eyes. So yeah, my thought here was just that. I think it's actually undervalued by way of the math. Like the, as the kids say, the math just isn't math thing for me on this one. But I was more curious about, since this is one of the seven sacraments, even if you just said like, well, it should have at least one seven of the allocation. That's like, what? Like something like 14%. And so this is, um, almost half of that. I just found it a little bit, a little bit odd and yeah, I think you'd have to be, uh, so in other words, when I looked at the, basically, here's the bottom line. When I looked at the hours for confession one, there were weird times and uh, two, I was like, that doesn't seem like enough hours. Like, it was just more like that. Like how that's like saying like, Hey, the post office is open three hours a week, and by the way, one of those hours is from seven to eight o'clock on Friday. Like they had some hours. One hour just on Friday was like, I guess that's the way you wanna start your weekend is like, let's get all of this off my chest. Yeah. And, and do it. Right. And the last thing I'll say by the way, is you're correct. When you look at the instruction they give you, and this is common of course, toward the end, when they say like, here's how you like wrap up your part. Actually everybody should go read, go to the local, local Catholic church website and read the instructions. 'cause in some ways they're just interesting and kind of, um, I don't wanna say funny 'cause I'm not making fun. I'm just saying like, they have to give you instruction if you've never done it before. And so most of us are not really probably familiar with the process and they give you explicit instruction and toward the end it's like, here's how you kinda like hang up the call with the priest. And it's like you said, you know, these are my sins and all others, would you be willing to forgive? So you're right. Right. They just kinda wrap them all up because it's sins of omission, sense of commission, it's all to be together. But I, I wonder, you gotta think there's people in there that are like. The priests are like, okay, man, just yeah. Wrap, come on, wrap, wrap it up.  [00:31:55] Confession Timing Talk [00:31:55] Jesse Schwamb: And other people that come in are just like, you know, forgive me father. And uh, lastly to your point, when they give you instruction about how you should start, of course you're always to signify how long it's been since your last confession. Right. Confession. And they say parenthetically, like, reference the days, weeks, months, or years. So you're right. There are gonna be people that probably do it very frequently and probably people who do it infrequently still, I would say I just couldn't believe for a church this large, that there was just three hours a week.  [00:32:21] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:32:21] Jesse Schwamb: For everybody else.  [00:32:22] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:32:23] Vance and Papal Authority [00:32:23] Tony Arsenal: This leads me to two very brief sub, uh, denials slash affirmations. Uh, I don't know if you saw this, um, this is not a political statement, right? I, I have lots of feelings and thoughts about the current administration and I think most of my feelings and thoughts would surprise. Everybody. But I thought it was hilarious because JD Vance, who is a Roman Catholic, uh, confessed Roman Catholic part of the Roman Catholic Church, uh, he ha I, I'm not sure if I'm affirming or denying this, there was this funny, uh, funny exchange. I think he was at doing like a, doing like a TPU, I don't know, speech. He was doing a speech at some conservative event and he said something like, I think that the Pope should be more careful when he makes theological statements. I'm wanna be like, do you understand what the pope is in your religion? That was one of my sub denials. Uh, I don't remember what the other one is, so it must not have been that important. It'll come back to me at the worst possible moment and I will try very hard not to interrupt our show for it, but I probably will fail.  [00:33:25] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah.  [00:33:25] Reading Matthew 21 [00:33:25] Jesse Schwamb: Listen, we, we gotta get to some scripture because. We're, we're doing this old school style where we take like half the time and just talk about affirmations. It's true in house. It's true. Which is great fun. But let's, let's get back to Matthew 21. And I, I know we did this last time, but I am gonna rock through the passage 'cause of course, that's the best part of any of our discussion, is actually hearing from, from the Holy Spirit through the scripture, uh, which he's given to us. So this is, uh, Matthew 21, starting in verse 33. And you're gonna hear the, the whole thing right here. Uh, this is Jesus speaking. Listen to another parable. There was a landowner who planted a vineyard and put a wall around it and dug a wine press in it and built a tower and rented it out to vine growers and went on a journey. Now, when the high risk time approached, he sent his slaves to the vine growers to receive his fruit, and the vine growers took his slaves and beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. Again, he sent another group of slaves larger than the first, and they did the same thing to them. But afterward he sent his son to them saying they will respect my son. But when the vine growers saw the sun, they said among themselves, this is the heir. Come let us kill him and seize his inheritance, and they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine growers? They said to him, he will bring those wretches to a wretched end and will rent out the vineyard to other vine growers who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons. Jesus said to them, did you ever read in the scriptures the stone, which the builders rejected? This has become the chief cornerstone. This came about from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes. Therefore, I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation producing the fruit of it. And he who falls in the stone will be broken to pieces, but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust. And when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they understood that he was speaking about them. And although they were seeking to seize him, they feared the crowds because they're regarding him to be a prophet. [00:35:28] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:35:30] Pharisees Condemn Themselves [00:35:30] Tony Arsenal: This is like a super heavy parable. Right. And we talked a lot last week about how like the point of this parable is not necessarily to try to instruct the Pharisees or the Sadducees. Like it's not to instruct the people who were going to reject Christ, uh, the, the builders who would reject the cornerstone. It's really a parable to teach those. Who are observing this process happening. But I think it's, I, I think it's really interesting just listening to you read this and reading through it, and I guess this is a question I haven't asked and I, I need to study a little bit more. It's crazy to me in verse 41, um, Christ seems the, the, the, um, Matthew seems to say here, and maybe I need to do a little bit more Greek study, so bear with me and, and have grace if I'm wrong here. Matthew seems to say that like Christ asks the people he's speaking to, the Pharisees he's speaking to, what is he gonna do to these people? And the Pharisees answer, he's gonna put those wretches to a miserable death.  [00:36:36] Jesse Schwamb: Right?  [00:36:37] Tony Arsenal: Like the people listening to this parable understand the outcome, like they understand the. The consequence that the, the, the vineyard owner or the vineyard tenant tenants are facing based on their lack of faithfulness to the covenant. To me, that is like a really striking part of this parable. And, and it's not even like the parable proper, but like the striking element of the context of this is that nobody listening to this parable, including the Pharisees that this parable has basically spoken against, nobody fails to see the gravity of the consequence of rejecting God's emissary, like rejecting the Messiah. That to me is like a really, I dunno, paradigmatic. Portion of this that I think we need to grapple with. This is not an unclear, an unclear outcome. This is not, this is not masked or vague or OPA opaque. Like everybody understands, the people who reject the Messiah are going to face dire and eternal consequences for that act. [00:37:48] Jesse Schwamb: That does make this really interesting, doesn't it? Because it's not just entirely like Romans one adventures or even Romans two. It's that this is what Jesus does and he does it in a profound way that's not trickery like I think kinda like you're saying like the lead up to this isn't as if he's even leading the witness. He's making it very clear, all like the parameters of the story and the characters involved and what should be the proper judgment. And it's not as if like they start saying, they're like, oh, we shouldn't say anything more like we, we plead the fifth because it's gonna condemn ourselves. He draws his audience in to producing and pronouncing like their own sentence. It's very much like, I think I mentioned this last time, the prophet Nathan and David, isn't it? It's the exact same. Yeah. And the verdict is unanswerable, like even in its own terms. These other, like these other vine growers, prefigures of course like the inclusion of the Gentiles and the apostolic office. But I like that what Jesus does here, even before he gets to that point, is he extorts from them an acknowledgement of the punishment which awaited them. And so in this way there's like, I think the Puritans use this passage a lot actually to demonstrate that the natural conscience even of like the unregenerate, still bears witness to divine justice. That's Romans two. Like they, they can't get out from underneath it and Jesus isn't using any trickery on them to get them to say this thing. They are compelled in their own way, even being unregenerate to, like you said, even as they're rejecting the Messiah to recognize that punishment is due these characters in the story, even as they perceive at the end that they are those characters. [00:39:21] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:39:22] Jesse Schwamb: Saying we'll receive the judgment.  [00:39:24] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:39:25] Usurpers Not Misguided [00:39:25] Tony Arsenal: And I think too, like, um, this is kind of one of those chicken or the egg scenarios, right? Like Christ is both recognizing the intention of their heart as well as prophesying. And, and not just prophesying, but like inception level prophesying the, the outcome of the intention of their heart. And so like, again, like we've, we spent a whole week kind of like leading into the parable and now we spent a whole week, we're gonna spend a whole week again kind of leading into the parable. This is such a deep parable, and that like Christ is not just laying bare. The fact that the, the people who were going to reject him were doing so out of this sort of like attempt and intention of usurping the kingdom of God for their own purposes. I think that brings a layer to this that we don't often appreciate in. Christ's interaction with the Pharisees. I think sometimes, and maybe this is because I just listened to an episode of where Matt Whitman on the 10 minute Bible hour talked about this. I think sometimes we actually have a tendency to sort of be sympathetic to the Pharisees where we think, you know, they were, they were just trying to obey God's law and they got a little sideways on it and you know, they were putting these boundaries in place, but they were doing it in this sort of like misguided attempt to protect the people. Christ actually here seems to contradict that in that the comparison he's making is not to a, a well-intentioned group of people who just get it wrong, but he's painting the Pharisees, the, the religious leaders, the Sadducees, the chief priests. He's painting them as these usurpers who recognize the proper authority of right. The master and his emissaries and ultimately of his son, they recognize this proper authority and rather than submitting to it and submitting to the covenant obligations that they, they already actually agreed to, instead of doing that, they're going to reject that authority and try to take it for their own right. It's not just that they do the wrong thing, it's that they recognize the heir, which is Christ. They recognize this heir and they kill him to try to take his place. That is a really heavy element of this parable. Christ is not painting. Um, the, the, the Pharisees here, the, the religious leaders. He's not painting them as um, well-intentioned, but ultimately wrong, which is I think a lot of times, and I think there's reason to do this right. I'm not being overly critical and I've done this, I've actually done this myself, and I think there's some. Space for it. Like the Pharisees were wrong, but they were wrong, kind of in the right direction sometimes. Um, Christ is not really on board with that, at least in this parable. Right. This isn't about them thinking that the heir was a threat, and so killing the threat in, you know, inadvertently this is them absolutely seeing who the hair, who the heir is, and intentionally deciding to reject that heir and to murder him and to try to take his inheritance. Mm-hmm. That's an affront to not only the heir who they murder, but an affront to the owner of the vineyard himself, which of course in this parable is figured to be God the father primarily. But God in sort of general terms, like the whole Godhead, um, with Christ as the second Adam has, as his representative, as his heir. This is a really heavy parable and I think where this comes into play for us in our own Christian life is. Are there times where we. Sort of do the same thing in refusing to, maybe it's tie into your denial a little bit. Like refusing to acknowledge our own sinfulness, refusing to acknowledge the ways that God has provided for us. Um, do we at times look at what we have and lay claim to it as though it is our own inheritance that we've taken? Um, right. Do we kind of crucify the son of God anew in, in refusing to repent of our sins particularly? I dunno. I think those are some open questions for us to kind of explore as we dig into this a bit more. [00:43:54] Jesse Schwamb: And that may relate as well to, well eventually at some point, I dunno, like 2040, get to like the parable of the talents. There's some similarity there with a little bit, right? You're saying? I think you're right.  [00:44:06] God Does All the Verbs [00:44:06] Jesse Schwamb: And where I think we can anchor some of that is in those first couple of verses. I'm really always impressed by really the number of action verbs that are packed within, like that just initial statement of Jesus explaining the situation. [00:44:19] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:44:19] Jesse Schwamb: So he sets it all up and he's saying there's a planting that goes on, this landowner puts up a wall, digs a wine press. Builds a tower and then RINs it. So there's all these like amazing things being done, all this action verb. And I, I think in part why he comes against the Pharisees so hard in the same way that we're looking at like the parable that, uh, the, uh, talents for instance of saying like, what did you do with that was entrusted to you was like this great treasure which Christ has entrusted or God has entrusted to his people, which is, is the gospel essentially is, is all a prophetic witness, is like the truth of who God is and his revelation of himself. And so I think. The first thing we gotta see in those verbs is that there's this emphasis that the vineyard was God's sovereign creation. You know, he plants it, he chose it, he established it. Israel didn't plant herself. She was planted. And that sovereign initiative is foundational, I think in, like you're saying, the parables indictment, because these vine growers, they don't possess anything that they did not receive. Right. You know, they did not find a vineyard already planted, but God himself made it from the wilderness that all his glory, all the glory might be his. So. I think it's helpful for us to observe that the church is always the planting of the Lord and that no congregation flourishes that is not first planted by God. And so there is a major offense here when those who are to care for it, who know, like you're saying, that they ought to care for it, who understand something about the hierarchy and the way it has been entrusted to them. Not to only break that covenant, but then seek to try to usurp the power in the roles of those whom they should be, quite frankly, in our own language, like under shepherds too. And so it starts with all, all those verbs. Like I think we could probably spend a. A lot of times just speaking about what does it mean? Why? Why is there all this explicit in particular language about the fact that there's a hedge and there's a press besides just these are part in piece mail or part and parcel of what it means to have a vineyard, apparently, but that they're all part of this narrative of God talking about how he protects and cares for his people and sets them in a place and chooses them and is particular about the construction and does so with great volition and authority and care and concern and creative ability. And then again, you have those who are meant there to do the very job that he's entrusted them with. And not only are they not doing that, and of course you're right. Jesus elsewhere, comes in, comes in hot, right, with a Pharisees saying like, listen, you set burdens on people's backs that you yourselves cannot lift. You're twice as in the hell as anybody else, and that's who you are. Yeah. It's not just hypocrisy, but you're literally setting people up to fail in this. So you can see how you're right. It's not just like, guys, I appreciate that. Like you wanted to set up some additional boundaries and maybe you took it a little bit too far. This parable is just scorched earth. It's, it's nuclear. Yeah.  [00:47:10] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:47:11] Scandalous Vineyard Setup [00:47:11] Tony Arsenal: And you know, I think, um, we are obviously gonna spend another week on this 'cause we still have not really addressed a single verse in this parable. I, I think like a lot of ink has been spilled on explaining sort of like the feal agricultural arrangements of this passage. What it represents. M my understanding is. A typical arrangement would be that a, a landowner would basically just lease out land and the tenants would be responsible for the planting, for the development. Right. And the, the, the landowner would essentially just collect a portion of whatever they produce. Right. This parable is actually taking this a step further. Exactly. That it's not as though the landowner just says like, all right, you can use this land. Right. And I own the land, so I get a portion of the pro, the profit. He's actually done all the work. Yes. And all that. The, all that the, the tenants need to do essentially is reap the harvest and then provide the portion of the harvest that belongs to the landowner, and so there is a greater investment. Of the landowner into this land than would be expected. We've commented in the past about how a lot of times the, the parables start on sort of a premise of shock. Like there's a, there's an element of the setup of the, of the parable where the audience would kind of like sit back and gasp or kind of be like, wait a second. Like that's not normal. Right. In the parable of the, the, um, lost son, it was the idea that like the son demanded his inheritance. And that wasn't the shocking part. The shocking part was that the father just granted it. Right. Or, um, the lost sheep, like the, there's actually a sort of a shocking element to the fact that like the, the land, the like sheep owner would just go get this other sheep. So we've, we've commented on there's kind of like. There's sort of like a scandalous setup. The scandalous setup in this is not that the land has been leased to tenants, right? It's that the land has been prepared for the tenants before it was leased out in the first place. And I think that's something we might miss if we read over this too quickly, is. The landowner has prepared everything for these, these tenants.  [00:49:30] Jesse Schwamb: That's right.  [00:49:31] Tony Arsenal: So the, the, at the, the punchline of the parable where they refuse to acknowledge the sovereignty of, um, sovereignty and maybe a lowercase s in the, in the context of the parable, they refuse to acknowledge the sovereignty and the rightful claim of the tenant or of the landowner on the, the profit of the land. And sort of like highlighter emphasized by the fact that they actually didn't do any of the work. There's a certain kind of like Amer, like American rugged individualism where we're kind of like, yeah, like if I planted all the crops, then it's kind of lame that this guy's coming in expecting to take a portion of it, right? Like, yeah, I guess he owns the land, so maybe he gets a little piece of it, but like, who does he think he is? All of that already is already short circuited. Like I. The, these tenants are not actually, um, portrayed as doing anything in this parable. That's right. Like they just lease the land. They, they, um, and leased is not really like the right. The right word, the, the Greek word is omi, which is like he gave over the land to them. Um, when we say leased, we have this idea that like the tenants pay to use the land and then like part of their contract is that whatever profits they reap, uh, off the land goes back to the, to the landowner. This is really more like the landowner graciously allowed them to live on this land, and the only payment he required was that they would eventually provide him part of the profit back. Like he's planted the land, he's put up the fence around it. He dug the wine press so that they could make a product out of it. He built the tower so it would be defended. Yes. And he gave it over to them essentially just to like live on until it was time for the harvest. And all he is asking for is basically like, alright, so this is my land. I've planted the vineyards, the profit is mine to have. And so when the time came for him to come claim that that's where they have now rejected him. Yes. That's where they've now said like, I know you did all the work and really graciously allowed us to live in this land, but we're gonna keep all of it for ourselves. That's the scandal of this. That's what I think like the original audience would've set up and like, wait a second here. Like, hold on. They didn't even plant the vineyards themselves. They didn't even build the tower themselves. That's really the force of this that I think we miss when we, when we overemphasize, trying to think through like what the original agricultural arrangements were. 'cause this is painted. Very different than what the original arrangements would've been typical for. Like this is a different scenario and I think intentionally so,  [00:52:09] Jesse Schwamb: and we need those words like rented, at least in English, to help us understand that it didn't belong to them. It wasn't a gift, right? It wasn't as if like it was just turned over in the sense that it belongs to you now do with it what you will. And it's very clear in the passage one, like you said, that the landowner does all those things. So it was a, you know, he completely set it up. I mean, this is just such a beautiful, I think, depiction of the hold of prophetic, you know, understanding of God's word here, but it's very clear that says the, he sent his slaves to the vine growers to receive his fruit. So you're right. The scandal is that they're like, well, obviously. They need to give him his fruits, like  [00:52:48] Tony Arsenal: right.  [00:52:48] Jesse Schwamb: It was all set up before he left on this long journey. He then turned it over to them to care for, and that was really all that they were supposed to do. They had no role in this. And so it does like lead us in into this weird space where it's like, well, well what, what did the Pharisees think they were trying to do themselves? What does actually Jesus commenting on, on their own, like licit on their own initiative here, is he basically saying that not only are they not respecting his sovereignty, but they were trying to claim for themselves what only rightly belongs to God that even their position right. Society in culture as their representatives, God himself, they wanted to take that over for themselves, which he does bring that condemnation upon them in other parts of the scripture. So again, this is really hot. I think it's a, it's both heat and light, but there's no doubt that there's fire to this, right? Because it's a direct indictment that God the father set all of this up. You yourselves are on rented property, but guess what? Even the property that you've rented, I'm not exacting a tax from you as if like you have put forward and grown or supplied or created some kind of profitable outcome here. And I just want a piece of that. He's not even talking about tithing in that sense. What he's basically saying is, none of this belongs to you. Like how? Right? How dare you? None of this is yours. I set all of this up and in fact, because you've done so poor poorly at this, I'm gonna take it away from you and give it to those who actually produce fruit and guess what's gonna be the Gentiles? So it's, there's a wild. Amounts of condemnation packed into a very small story.  [00:54:19] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. It really is.  [00:54:22] Tenants Add Nothing [00:54:22] Tony Arsenal: Um, there is nothing expected of these tenants. Right. There's no contract, like there's no terms, they, they really add nothing to the, the landowner's land, except I guess maybe they're the ones harvesting these, this fruit. Right. But even that's not explicit in the parable.  [00:54:43] Jesse Schwamb: Exactly.  [00:54:43] Tony Arsenal: Right. Right. He, he does all just to steal your thunder, like he does all the verbs. Yes. All of the ves are done by the landowner.  [00:54:50] Jesse Schwamb: Yes. Right  [00:54:51] Tony Arsenal: on. There is an implication that the, the tenants are somehow like the ones harvesting this, or they're the ones producing the wine, I guess, in the wine vat or the wine press. But at the end of the day. A normal tenant landowner agreement would be, I'm, you're, first of all, you're probably gonna pay me to use this land, right? You're paying me to use this land, and the way you pay me is you're gonna plant the, the gr the crop. You're gonna harvest it. You're gonna make the produce, and all I'm gonna do is let you live on this land. I'm gonna take the pro, like the profit, you're gonna pay me outta that profit. There is nothing asked or expected of these, th

In this week's episode of *The Marvelists Presents: Catholic Guilt – A Daredevil: Born Again Podcast*, hosts **Peter Melnick** and **Eddie Wilson** dive headfirst into Episode 7 of Season 2, where the tension is high, the fists are flying, and Matt Murdock's moral compass is spinning like it just went twelve rounds in Hell's Kitchen. Joining them as guest co-host is comic book veteran **Chris Ryall**, former Editor-in-Chief of IDW Publishing and a longtime creative voice in the world of *Daredevil*. Chris also authored a book on *Daredevil: Born Again* as part of the *Marvel Age of Comics* line, focusing on the classic 1980s comic storyline and its lasting impact on the character. With that background, he brings a sharp, insider perspective to the discussion—breaking down the episode's themes, character beats, and how this latest chapter compares to Daredevil's most defining moments in comics history. Together, Peter, Eddie, and Chris unpack the episode's biggest reveals, dig into the ever-present themes of guilt and redemption, and speculate on what's next for the Man Without Fear. As always, Matt's struggle between justice and faith takes center stage—and let's just say, things aren't getting any easier for him. And yes—before you ask—the podcast is once again temporarily without a theme song. At this point, it's less of a glitch and more of a tradition. Honestly, the silence at the beginning might be the most consistent thing about the show. All that and more on this week's episode—no confession booth required… but you may want to say a few Hail Marys anyway.

This week on Catholic Guilt, Peter and Eddie step back into the confessional as Daredevil: Born Again Season 2 delivers one of its most introspective and emotionally charged episodes yet. “The Grand Design” splits time between the present-day fallout from Bullseye's brutal attack on Vanessa Fisk and haunting flashbacks that reframe Matt Murdock's past, Wilson Fisk's origins, and the fragile threads of mercy, fate, and redemption. While Wilson Fisk keeps vigil at his wife's bedside, praying for a miracle, Matt must confront his own Catholic guilt head-on—deciding whether to save the man who murdered his best friend or let justice (and the Devil) take its course. Foggy Nelson's memory looms large, old faces from Hell's Kitchen return in unexpected ways, and the episode grapples with big questions: Is there such a thing as a second chance? Can even the Devil show mercy? And what part does “God's will” play in the grand design of it all? Peter and Eddie break down the episode's masterful use of flashbacks, Charlie Cox's nuanced portrayal of a hero wrestling with faith and vengeance, Vincent D'Onofrio's heartbreaking vulnerability as Fisk, and how this hour quietly becomes one of the strongest of the season so far. Expect plenty of rosary-clutching discussion, theological deep dives, and the usual Hell's Kitchen banter. Plus: Reactions to that gut-punch ending, theories on where Daredevil and Bullseye's uneasy alliance heads next, and how the show continues to honor (without cheapening) the emotional weight of loss. Hail Marys optional… but highly encouraged after this one. Grab your billy clubs, light a candle, and join us in the booth.

Don't Call It A Comeback: On this week's episode - comebacks, grinding, Hail Marys, rail dumps, Durango, the battle, mindset, aggression, walking away and Ed's medulla oblongata. Call The Casino Tears Vent Line 229-NO SEVEN (667-3836) Now! Leave a message, ask a question or simply get something off your mind -  We might even play it on air!! NEW EPISODES DROP WEEKLY ON TUESDAYS - Please visit our home page at casinotears.com for more info, merch, and host contacts Extended versions will also drop Tuesdays on Patreon - Don't miss out :) Email: noseven@casinotears.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/CasinoTears Pro Shop: https://www.casinotears.vegas/shop/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/casinotearspodcast YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CasinoTears X: https://x.com/CasinoTears Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/casinotears

 IN THIS EPISODE~ Rob Clark (“The Lone Gunman Podcast”) and Doug Campbell (“The Dallas Action” JFK Assassination  Research & Study Podcast, Presented By Wall Street Window) are BACK in Episode #71 with another marathon slate of JFK Assassination research, document study, and historical news and notes for March! As sometimes happens, there is a synchronistic nature to the material prepared separately by the hosts, which is only noted once the guys come together. The common denominator this time?David Ferrie.    Among the topics discussed: Ferrie, Guy Banister, and the New Orleans angle/connections to Lee Oswald and the Kennedy Case; An (somewhat) historic interview with David Ferrie, just a few months prior to his death; Very rare audio of the man Guy Banister pistol-whipped on the night of Kennedy's death, Jack (“Edward Suggs”) Martin; Was Lee Oswald– in reality– PRO or ANTI-Castro? Given that he seems to have spent considerable time with members of both factions, what do his actions ultimately reveal?; If the April 1963 flight plan filed by Ferrie from NOLA to Texas– that lists a passenger named “Hidell”-- is authentic and indicates the presence of Lee Oswald, then what was the purpose of the trip?; Three different– and differing– documented accounts of the Banister/Martin pistol-whipping, Lee Oswald may have dropped a dime on Ferrie prior to 11/22/63, and how much did Banister's secretary Delphine Roberts know? Really?   PLUS, Doug gives a sneak preview of the next episode of “The Dallas Action”, we answer listener emails, the Military-Industrial Complex robs Rob, and Momo continues to be the absolute most impatient audio engineer anywhere on Music Row, bar none.  Written and Hosted by Rob Clark and Doug Campbell.  Recorded and Engineered by Momo Scaranucci, Jr. for Drop-D Podcast Productions.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/quick-hits-the-jfk-assassination--3682240/support.

Live from Joe's mom's basement (where humility is encouraged and spreadsheets are optional), the crew tackles a deceptively simple question. If most people think they're above average with money, what advice actually helps someone who isn't? Joe Saul-Sehy, OG, Doug, Jesse Cramer, and guest Whitney Hanson (Money Nerds podcast) run a thought experiment inspired by Morgan Housel's observation that nearly everyone believes they're financially smarter than the median. What straightforward moves keep someone from needing last minute financial Hail Marys? The answer isn't flashy. It's systems. Whitney kicks things off with a practical starting point: identify your knowledge gaps. Tools like Investor.gov quizzes can reveal blind spots, and she suggests theming your learning (one focus per month) so financial literacy doesn't feel overwhelming. From there, the conversation turns to controllables: cash flow, savings rate, lifestyle inflation, and career capital. Because while markets bounce around, your habits are yours. The gang also introduces the idea of a tactile money leak audit, physically reviewing spending to spot waste that autopilot budgeting apps can miss. It's less glamorous than crypto speculation but far more effective. Investing gets reframed too. Instead of treating it like a mysterious Wall Street game, they suggest thinking of it as owning small pieces of companies you already know and use. Start small. Automate it. Build reps. Confidence follows action. Insurance and estate planning round out the episode. The crew urges listeners to shop multiple advisors, understand policy details before signing, use AI to help decode fine print without blindly trusting it, and avoid overconfidence just because something sounds right. Doug keeps things lively with trivia revealing that Johnny Carson's 1982 DUI fine was a very specific $603, and OG once again proves suspiciously good at guessing. What You'll Learn: Why most people overestimate their financial knowledge and what to do about it How to identify and close your personal money knowledge gaps The key financial variables you actually control How to perform a simple money leak audit Why small, automatic investing beats waiting for the perfect moment How to make investing feel familiar instead of intimidating The basics everyone should understand about insurance and estate planning Why repetition builds financial confidence faster than theory The Big Takeaway: You don't need advanced tactics. You need consistent systems. Focus on what you control. Automate the boring stuff. Learn one thing at a time. Build margin. Repeat. Because the goal isn't to be above average. It's to be steady enough that you never need a desperate Hail Mary. This Episode Is For You If: You feel like everyone else has money figured out except you Financial advice usually feels too complicated or assumes knowledge you don't have You're tired of feeling behind and want simple systems that work You want to build confidence through action, not just theory You believe steady progress beats trying to be perfect Question for You: What was the first simple money habit that changed your trajectory? Share it in the Spotify comments or The Basement Facebook group. Your small win might be exactly what another Stacker needs to hear. FULL SHOW NOTES: https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/bottom-50-money-tips-1809/ Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.StackingBenjamins.com/201 Enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Live from Joe's mom's basement (where humility is encouraged and spreadsheets are optional), the crew tackles a deceptively simple question. If most people think they're above average with money, what advice actually helps someone who isn't? Joe Saul-Sehy, OG, Doug, Jesse Cramer, and guest Whitney Hanson (Money Nerds podcast) run a thought experiment inspired by Morgan Housel's observation that nearly everyone believes they're financially smarter than the median. What straightforward moves keep someone from needing last minute financial Hail Marys? The answer isn't flashy. It's systems. Whitney kicks things off with a practical starting point: identify your knowledge gaps. Tools like Investor.gov quizzes can reveal blind spots, and she suggests theming your learning (one focus per month) so financial literacy doesn't feel overwhelming. From there, the conversation turns to controllables: cash flow, savings rate, lifestyle inflation, and career capital. Because while markets bounce around, your habits are yours. The gang also introduces the idea of a tactile money leak audit, physically reviewing spending to spot waste that autopilot budgeting apps can miss. It's less glamorous than crypto speculation but far more effective. Investing gets reframed too. Instead of treating it like a mysterious Wall Street game, they suggest thinking of it as owning small pieces of companies you already know and use. Start small. Automate it. Build reps. Confidence follows action. Insurance and estate planning round out the episode. The crew urges listeners to shop multiple advisors, understand policy details before signing, use AI to help decode fine print without blindly trusting it, and avoid overconfidence just because something sounds right. Doug keeps things lively with trivia revealing that Johnny Carson's 1982 DUI fine was a very specific $603, and OG once again proves suspiciously good at guessing. What You'll Learn: Why most people overestimate their financial knowledge and what to do about it How to identify and close your personal money knowledge gaps The key financial variables you actually control How to perform a simple money leak audit Why small, automatic investing beats waiting for the perfect moment How to make investing feel familiar instead of intimidating The basics everyone should understand about insurance and estate planning Why repetition builds financial confidence faster than theory The Big Takeaway: You don't need advanced tactics. You need consistent systems. Focus on what you control. Automate the boring stuff. Learn one thing at a time. Build margin. Repeat. Because the goal isn't to be above average. It's to be steady enough that you never need a desperate Hail Mary. This Episode Is For You If: You feel like everyone else has money figured out except you Financial advice usually feels too complicated or assumes knowledge you don't have You're tired of feeling behind and want simple systems that work You want to build confidence through action, not just theory You believe steady progress beats trying to be perfect Question for You: What was the first simple money habit that changed your trajectory? Share it in the Spotify comments or The Basement Facebook group. Your small win might be exactly what another Stacker needs to hear. Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.StackingBenjamins.com/201 Enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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In the life of a Catholic, there are set times when we pray for and with the Pope. At Mass, during the prayers of the faithful, for example. There's that one bead on the rosary where we say an Our Father for the pope's intentions. There are feast days when we are called to hold the pope in prayer in a special way. But often, these calls to prayer can feel rote, distant, hasty. What if there's another way to pray with the pope? What if you could know exactly what the pope's prayer intention was for any given month? What if this invitation to prayer was one of depth, intimacy and an ongoing encounter with Christ? You may be familiar with the Pope's Worldwide Prayer Network. You may even know it by an older name: the Apostleship of Prayer. Under Pope Francis, this Jesuit apostolate took on a renewed mission, becoming a Pontifical Work — still entrusted to the Society of Jesus — and shared ever more widely through digital media and the pope videos. Now, under Pope Leo, the work continues. As you'll hear from today's guest, Fr. Cristóbal Fones, a Chilean Jesuit who now serves as the international director, Pope Leo is excited and eager to get the word out about this unique network of prayer. This isn't just about reciting Our Fathers and Hail Marys — though that's important. This is about uniting our hearts to the suffering Christ so present in our world. This is about practicing a spirituality that is concerned for those who are suffering by lifting up and naming specific instances of need around the world. Fr. Cristóbal was a great guest; we had a really engaging conversation not only about the Pope's Worldwide Network, but about the nature of prayer and the hopes of this American pope. Learn more about the Pope's Worldwide Prayer Network by visiting the global site: popesprayer.va. And the North American site: popesprayerusa.net.

Send a textIn this Lenten reflection, we share a powerful Catholic story of repentance, mortal sin, and Marian mercy.One night, a young man was shown hell. His companion was damned — but through a few Hail Marys to the Blessed Virgin Mary, he was spared. That moment of mercy led to total conversion… and eventually to martyrdom by fire for Jesus Christ.This episode explores the power of the Hail Mary, devotion to Our Lady, spiritual warfare, true repentance, and what it means to choose Christ over comfort during Lent. Featuring reflection from St. Alphonsus Liguori's The Glories of Mary, this story reminds us that Marian devotion is not sentimental — it is salvation.Support the showSupport this show and get all future episodes by email atwww.kenandjanelle.com

This week, Miles Nolte jumps in a helicopter and flies right to the Cricket Wireless store, we find 8-pound trout on dries but can't locate the whiskey we buried, slog through nipple deep costume jewelry dilemmas, and sing nu-metal songs instead of the reciting the Hail Marys a priest told us we really need to say.

We break down our favorite moments, questionable ads, top-tier snacks, and, of course, our very real man crush on Ricky Martin. Consider this your fun, messy post-game recap with a side of pop culture chaos. Thank you to our partner: Shopify - See less carts go abandoned and more sales go with Shopify and their Shop Pay button. Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial today at SHOPIFY.COM/TOGETHERMESS We would love your feedback... If you enjoyed this episode, tell us why! Leave us a review and make sure you subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Executive Producers are Riley Peleuses + Ian McNeny for YEA Media Group If you are interested in advertising on this podcast or having Jeff and Jordan as guests on your Podcast, Radio Show, or TV Show, reach out to podcast@yeamediagroup.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We break down our favorite moments, questionable ads, top-tier snacks, and, of course, our very real man crush on Ricky Martin. Consider this your fun, messy post-game recap with a side of pop culture chaos. Thank you to our partner: Shopify - See less carts go abandoned and more sales go with Shopify and their Shop Pay button. Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial today at SHOPIFY.COM/TOGETHERMESS We would love your feedback... If you enjoyed this episode, tell us why! Leave us a review and make sure you subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Executive Producers are Riley Peleuses + Ian McNeny for YEA Media Group If you are interested in advertising on this podcast or having Jeff and Jordan as guests on your Podcast, Radio Show, or TV Show, reach out to podcast@yeamediagroup.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today's Masked Speaker tried to own her mistakes after she made a terrible choice at a bar with a really hot guy... and all her honesty got her was the WEIRDEST, most AWKWARD experience of her life!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Do you ever receive three Hail Marys as your penance in confession and wonder why? In this homily, Fr. Edward Looney explains the origins of the Three Hail Marys devotion and how St. Mechtilde received it through private revelation. Learn the spiritual meaning behind each Hail Mary and why this simple devotion has helped countless Catholics grow in holiness and trust in Our Lady's intercession.

Brad & Sean share their best Hail Mary bets for this week in the NFL & College Basketball.

Send us a textA young Catholic nun prays 1,000 Hail Marys a day for nine straight days, preparing for the Feast of the Immaculate Conception. Then, during this Advent devotion, the Blessed Mother appears and speaks a message that transforms her soul. Today we explore this remarkable Marian encounter and the exact words Mary gave to her.Support the showSupport this show and get all future episodes by email atwww.kenandjanelle.com

Christina Bagaglio Slentz is Associate Director for Creation Care for the Catholic Diocese of San Diego. Learn about how her diocese prioritizes climate action here.In this episode, we often refer to Pope Francis' encyclical Laudato si' and the ways that faith communities are living out its stated goals. We also discuss the theme “seeds of peace and hope,” the official theme for the 2025 ecumenical Season of Creation.Many thanks to Christina for sharing her wisdom in this conversation!Christina SlentzTRANSCRIPTChristina Slentz I think this really can help us understand the way that the cry of the Earth, these environmental climate extremes, or the variability that we're experiencing, leads to greater exposure—but how one community can face that exposure and adapt or bounce back fairly quickly and another may not really have that capacity.Debra Rienstra Welcome to the Refugia Podcast. I'm your host, Professor Debra Rienstra. Refugia are habitats in nature where life endures in times of crisis. We're exploring the concept of refugia as a metaphor, discovering how people of faith can become people of refugia: nurturing life-giving spaces in the earth, in our human cultural systems, and in our spiritual communities, even in this time of severe disturbance. This season, we're paying special attention to churches and Christian communities who have figured out how to address the climate crisis together as an essential aspect of their discipleship.Today, I'm talking with Dr. Christina Bagaglio Slentz, Associate Director for Creation Care at the Catholic Diocese of San Diego. Christina has a background in sociology, with a PhD in international studies and global affairs. She's also a Navy veteran. Today, she serves a diocese of 97 parishes, helping to guide and empower people in their creation care work. The Diocese of San Diego is a microcosm of diverse biomes and diverse people, and it's a fascinating example of refugia, because as a diocese, they are doing all the things. Christina and I talk about Laudato si', solar energy, economics, eco spirituality, environmental justice advocacy, the centrality of the Eucharist, and the mutuality between caring for neighbor and caring for the Earth. Let's get to it.Debra Rienstra Christina, thank you so much for being with me today. I really appreciate talking to you.Christina Slentz Thank you, Debra, for having me. I'm really excited to be here.Debra Rienstra So I am eager to hear more about the Diocese of San Diego, because it seems that you have been very intentional and thoughtful and ambitious about your creation care agenda, and we're going to get into the details of that in just a minute, but I want to start with you. So tell us your hero origin story. How did you get into faith-based environmental work and into your current position?Christina Slentz Well, to be honest, I never saw it coming in many ways. I was working in the global affairs area, looking at sources of conflict and cooperation and how political economy intersects with those dynamics, and that was my academic area of focus. And at the same time, I've always been a catechist in the Catholic church since the 90s, and my church life was pretty comfortable, I would say, and active. But I didn't really see those two things coming together until Laudato si', the encyclical written by Pope Francis on the care of our common home, was released in 2015, and this really started to bring more overlap between these two areas in my life. And I would say, increasingly, then there was a lot of interplay between those focus areas for me. And eventually this position became available in the Diocese of San Diego, and a friend mentioned it to me, and I thought that is actually the perfect vocation for me. And I really feel like I understood it to be a vocation, not just a job.Debra Rienstra Yeah, I think I can relate to everything you just said. I think we came to this work from different areas of specialty, but yeah, like you, I feel like we've had these mid-career shifts where suddenly our area of specialty—in my case, literature and creative writing—has become energized by—in your case, Laudato si', in my case, other documents as well as Laudato si',—and we've sort of taken this fascinating and yeah, I would agree, vocational, turn. So let's talk a little bit more about Laudato si'. I imagine our listeners know at least a little bit about it. It's been so enormously influential. It's such an amazing landmark document. Could you talk a little bit about how you've seen Laudato si' diffuse through the Catholic Church, especially the American Catholic Church?Christina Slentz Yes, I think, to be honest, it has had a complicated journey with the Catholic community here in the United States. Very much like the issue of climate change in the global community, the United States has struggled with these dynamics—I think the way that they involve our economics and some of our very strong ideology about economic freedom and what that means to people. And so I think it's fair to say that while Laudato si' was very warmly received around the world, it has struggled in the United States as a whole, and that includes the American Catholic community. That said, there have been—like your description of refugia suggests——there have been these pockets, though, where I think that particular dynamics existed, and there was fertile ground for seeds to be planted. And the Diocese of San Diego is one of them. The Diocese of—the Archdiocese of Atlanta was another. There are a couple around the country, and I do think some footholds were created. In addition, one of the things that is particularly interesting about the encyclical Laudato si'—and an encyclical is just a document that a pope writes and then circulates, right, this is where the word encyclical comes from—circulates around until everyone's had a chance to read it. We can imagine in medieval times, you know, how this must have been a challenge. And I think that, you know, this challenge exists, but Father Emmett Farrell is the founder of this ministry in my diocese, and Father Emmett just celebrated his 60th anniversary of his ordination, and Father Emmett will say he has never seen an encyclical translate to action the way that Laudato si' has. And in particular, there is a Vatican online platform called the Laudato si' Action Platform, where Catholics—either parishes, schools, orders of sisters or religious—can get on this platform and learn about the dynamics that we face. They can see how our values are distilled into seven goals, and then they can reflect on their behavior, using this tool to sort of measure where they are, and then write a plan of action and upload it and share it with each other. And Father Emmett really celebrates how amazing it is that, you know, that we're going to lean into technology and use it for the good.Debra Rienstra Oh, awesome. There's so many things I want to follow up on in that answer. And I want to begin by just thanking you for being honest about pushback to Laudato si' in the US. And I want to go back to that in just a second, if it's okay. And then I want to thank you for the way you've thought about, you know, some of these dioceses like the mighty San Diego and the mighty Atlanta as sort of refugia spaces. And we'll come back to that again too, I really hope, and I want to hear some more details about your particular diocese. Why do you think there has been pushback in the American Catholic Church? You mentioned economic reasons, and you know, Pope Francis and Pope Leo now have both been very pointed in their critique of climate denial, of greed, of exploitation, injustice, war, economic systems that many Americans have sort of held as almost sacrosanct. So what are you noticing in Catholic conversations about that critique? Why are people resisting the critique and why are people saying, “No, that's right”—what are the motivations behind each of those responses?Christina Slentz So, you know, we could probably talk about this all day.Debra Rienstra Probably, yeah.Christina Slentz Because economic peace, I think, is really difficult to think about. You know, if we take the United Kingdom, for example, it's a country very much like the United States. So many of our you know, American culture and tradition and customs come out of that early launching that we experienced from, you know, Great Britain. And yet, as the topic of climate change came forward, Margaret Thatcher, who was, you know, a real compatriot of President Ronald Reagan at the time, she really took the scientific approach in thinking about climate change, and this set them on a path that's really different from the path that we experienced. And certainly, oil is a big factor in our economy. And I think it can be a real challenge for people to weigh the goods, you know, because we have to be honest, there are goods in both sides of these dynamics. When we understand the gravity, though, of climate change, if we're allowed to really get into those dynamics without the noise that has been kind of confronting that potential, then I think we can see that the good outweighs, you know, those alternative goods associated with continuing in the fossil fuel realm. But this is why we talk about a just transition, right? I think that many people who are hearing this noise, right, they don't understand that Pope Francis and others, you know, is really arguing for a just transition, and that would seek to care for the people that are going to be affected by whatever change in economic policy might make.Debra Rienstra Yeah, and more and more, those economic changes are actually positive in favor of transition in ways that they weren't even 5-10 years ago.Christina Slentz Yeah, I think it's amazing. We actually had some good momentum going until recently.Debra Rienstra Yeah, you know, I would love to get us all talking about a just and joyful transition, because it's more and more possible. And maybe we'll come back to that a little bit later too, when we talk about ecological spirituality. But let's go back to these places within the American Catholic Church, even, that are saying, “Oh yes, Laudato si', yes, let's go.” And San Diego diocese is one of those places. You had an action plan already in 2019. I think it's impressive that a diocese could get a plan together in four years. So good job. Knowing how long everything takes in church settings. So just give us a list of your accomplishments. What have you been up to since 2019? What are the kinds of things you've dipped your toes into?Christina Slentz Sure, and to be fair, I want to give some good credit to some others. You know, the Archdiocese of Atlanta had created their creation care action plan. This gave us some really good kind of framework to think about when we created ours. And there was a team that preceded me. They were all volunteers, very multidisciplinary in their backgrounds, everything from theologians to medical doctors who had worked with indigenous communities, you know, theologians, missionaries, energy engineers, and they really pulled this together early on. And this plan I now recognize as what climate action planners might refer to as an aspirational plan. It's all the things you could do in our area, and it serves as a really good resource for our parishes and schools as they think about what they might do in their Laudato si' action platform plans, and those are yearly plans that are really targeted on what we're going to do. So, you know, one of the things that they did early on was really push to solarize. And you know, we do have the great fortune of, one: climate here in San Diego, right? You know, we're sort of famous for that. And then you know, two: the other thing is that, you know, it was very normative to be shifting to solar, and continues to be an economic choice that is not really as politicized here as much as it might be elsewhere. And then the third thing was this is, you know, the magic number three is to have a bishop that is supportive. And so Cardinal McElroy—now Cardinal McElroy, then Bishop McElroy—really promoted this solarization. And at this point we have about 54% of our parishes solarized. And when I think now, you know, the Paris Climate Agreement says we want to have about half of our carbon emissions reduced by 2030 then you know, we're sitting at about half. Our building where I'm located is called our pastoral center. Some Catholic communities call it their chancery. And our solar array here provides over 80% of our electricity to the building. Our local utility is about half renewable energy, a little bit more. So with that in mind, you know, our electricity here to our building is a little over 90% coming from renewable energy, and this lets us have seven electric vehicle charging stations in the parking lot so I can go to work and charge my car at the same time.Debra Rienstra Lovely.Christina Slentz So that was one big thing. I would say our other really big kind of landmark action that also was largely driven by Cardinal McElroy, was to divest of fossil fuels. And, you know, this is a real challenging thing to accomplish. We set a goal of no more than 5% of, you know, the earnings of both direct and indirect investment to be coming from fossil fuel. And after a year, we evaluated how we were doing, and we were actually hitting—not we, you know, the financial folks doing this—were hitting less than 3%. So, you know, we said, “Okay, I think we can say that this was successful, and we're still here.” So that was really exciting, and we didn't do it to be virtue signaling. Just, you know, for some of your listeners may not know, but the USCCB, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, has a document that directs socially responsible investment for all areas. And so this is just one more area of socially responsible investment that the Diocese of San Diego has embraced.Debra Rienstra Yeah, yeah. So we've got money, we've got energy. How many parishes would you say are on board with this, doing yearly goals, selecting from the menu of fun ideas—what percentage of your parishes would you say are involved?Christina Slentz So I gotta, Debra, that's a little bit of a good question. I think, you know, we did just describe two very top-down approaches. And one of the things that our group, you know, when I came on board in 2022, we decided is, you know, we really wanted to push that grassroots. And so we see parishes demonstrating a range of behaviors, and I was initially surprised, but they actually behave a lot like countries around the world. And so, you know, you think, oh, that's going to be different. But, you know, you can also have three children, and they all behave differently, and you know, sometimes that's surprising as well, when they have the same parents. And so one of the things that I have really tried to do was offer more events that are here at the diocesan level. We have 97 parishes, and then we have—so sometimes we'll see individuals that are really on board, and they come from a parish where, at the parish level, not a lot is happening. Sometimes we have individuals that are participating, and they are doing a ton at their parish and succeeding. And then we have parishes where the pastor is leading the charge. And then on top of that, I would say there are parishes where they have solar and they have drought-resistant landscaping, and they have LEED silver certified buildings that, you know, are very environmentally friendly. And yet, you know, at the parishioner level, you know, not as much activity happening. So it is an array of activities. I would say probably half have had some kind of interaction with us, or have had parishioners or students participate in our programs. But you know, we reflect the American Catholic community, which reflects the broader American society as well. So there are places where we struggle, and then there are places where we see a lot of action and shining.Debra Rienstra Yeah, sure. And I really appreciate that. And I think listeners can relate to that range of involvement too. Maybe they are in any one of those categories or some other category themselves. And you know, as you say, it's the modeling of— even if it's a minority, it's the modeling and the enthusiasm and the even implicit sort of educating of others that can make this work spread too. So I want to list the seven goals of the Laudato si' action platform, because I think they're really, really great and helpful to people who are not in the Catholic Church, but in other aspects of the church, you might find these goals useful too. So here are the goals: response to the cry of the Earth, response to the cry of the poor, ecological economics, adoption of sustainable lifestyles, ecological education, ecological spirituality, community resilience and empowerment. So I want to start with the first three. We've talked a little bit about economics and how dicey that can be, but I wonder if you could describe how you see the cry of the earth and the cry of the poor as basically the same cry, as Pope Francis said in Laudato si'. How do you see that, especially in your region?Christina Slentz Yeah, so thank you. I think these two are kind of the crown jewels, right? And they sum up what we see happening very well. I think that the other goals are valuable because they sort of pull out the dynamics that we really understand as informing those two big—response to the cry of the Earth and cry of the poor. So as someone who was looking at this through the lens of being a social scientist, I found these two goals to really sum it up well, because it is not just the exposure to the environment that causes our concern for these dynamics. It's the exposure as well as the sensitivity of that population. And then this helps us understand also, maybe some vulnerability that that population might have. So for example, we had significant flooding about a year and a half ago in January, the month of January, and the same rain fell on a parish in the southern part of the Diocese, close to our Mexican border, in an area that is, you know, less wealthy, probably demonstrates some socio economic features that we would associate with marginalized communities. And then it also fell on a parish in Coronado, California. And some people might recognize the Hotel Del Coronado as an iconic location. It's a beautiful community. There's a lot of wealth. There's a lot of human capital as well. You know, very highly educated group, and so the buildings at two of two parishes in each of these locations were completely flooded. But, you know, the parish in Coronado was up on its feet within a week. And of course, they had repairs that had to be done, but they were able to get a hold of those folks, get them in, pay the bills, get it all done. And the parish on the south side had catastrophic flooding to its school, and the school was a total loss.Debra Rienstra Oh, wow.Christina Slentz So I think this really can help us understand the way that the cry of the Earth, these environmental climate extremes, or the variability that we're experiencing, leads to greater exposure, but how one community can face that exposure and adapt or bounce back fairly quickly, and another may not really have that capacity. And so you can't really pull them apart, because just measuring precipitation doesn't always give you the whole story.Debra Rienstra That's a very, very helpful answer to that. And I sometimes hear in religious circles, you know, “Well, we have to worry about other people, why should we worry about owls or whatever?” And the answer is: well, because what happens in nature affects people. So this is about loving your neighbor. Even if you're not convinced by the idea that we love the Earth for its own sake because it's beloved of God, we still have to love our neighbor. And this is a neighbor issue as well. So thank you. That was very helpful as an explanation.Christina Slentz One of my favorite kind of messages is, you know, having been a student of globalization, you know, I think that we live in a globalized world. You can't put that toothpaste back in the tube, right? Maybe there are some things we can do and that can be helpful, but the bottom line is, our actions have ripple effects, and so no matter what we do, we are going to have these impacts on people far beyond those we know and love on a day to day basis. And when we care for the Earth, we mitigate those effects on people all around the world, and so our caring for creation really is just love of neighbor at global scale.Debra Rienstra Ah, lovely. Yeah, so it works both ways. If you love neighbor, you love the Earth. If you love the Earth, you love your neighbor.Christina Slentz That's right.Debra RienstraHi, it's me, Debra. If you are enjoying this podcast episode, go ahead and subscribe on your preferred podcast platform. If you have a minute, leave a review. Good reviews help more listeners discover this podcast. To keep up with all the Refugia news, I invite you to subscribe to the Refugia newsletter on Substack. This is my fortnightly newsletter for people of faith who care about the climate crisis and want to go deeper. Every two weeks, I feature climate news, deeper dives, refugia sightings and much more. Join our community at refugianewsletter.substack.com. For even more goodies, including transcripts and show notes for this podcast, check out my website at debrarienstra.com. D-E-B-R-A-R-I-E-N-S-T-R-A dot com. Thanks so much for listening. We're glad you're part of this community. And now back to the interview.Debra Rienstra Let's think about some of those more personal goals. I don't know, maybe they're not just personal, because everything is systemic too. But I want to talk about that sustainable lifestyle goal, adoption of sustainable lifestyle. So what does that mean, and how are people doing that in San Diego?Christina Slentz So I have a really amazing parish, St. Thomas More, and they have created a community garden that not only functions as a place for their parish to gather and work together, it also is open to the public, so it has an evangelical capacity as well. And they also collect recyclable cans and bottles and then take those to a facility where they can be paid for that recycling work, and then they take the money, and then they put it into this garden that allows them to gather and have a mission and have evangelical outreach. So I think of this as such a wonderful circular kind of example that is, you know, feeding them in many ways. You know, they have this sense of community. They have this sense of common, shared mission. They have a good relationship with the neighborhood around them, people that may be of different faiths or of no faith at all. And then they're also in good relationship with Mother Earth, and doing what they can to, you know, practice this sort of sustainability, or also a little bit like circular economics, I guess I would say as well. And I think one of the things that the Catholic Church is emphasizing is synodality, and our synodality really calls us to be community, to have a shared mission and really inviting participatory action. So in my building here, where we sort of have the headquarters, you know, we also have gone to compostables for all of our events, and we try to minimize any kind of single use plastics. But, you know, there's that dreaded moment at the end where everybody has to go to the three, you know, receptacles. Everyone panics, especially if I'm near them, and I feel terribly, you know, like, should I step away? Should I give them a moment to give them help? Is that overreach? And so, you know, but we all fumble through together, and that's where I've kind of said, like, “Look, it's not easy for me either. Like, God forbid I put the wrong thing in the wrong can, right?” So I think that there's this way where we all are coming together to sort of take on this work. And, you know, we're not going to be perfect, but, you know, I think that it does foster community when we take this on, and then also recognizing how, you know, now we are living with greater simplicity, and we are impacting the Earth, you know, to a lesser extent.Debra Rienstra Yeah, nothing bonds people like pulling weeds together, or standing over the recycle bins going, “Hmm.” It's okay. We don't have to indulge in recycling guilt, you know, just do your best. So I want to move on to ecological spirituality. I love that phrase. It's not one you hear everywhere. And I wanted to remind listeners that San Diego Diocese is the most biodiverse diocese in the US. Maybe we wouldn't have expected that, but you've kind of got everything there. So I want to talk about ecological spirituality in the context of that actual place. I love the sentiment you quoted from Laudato si' in an article you wrote recently. It was an idea from Pope Francis that in the beauties and wonders of the Earth, we experience God's friendship with us. And so I wanted to ask you how you're helping people in your parishes reconnect to the Earth where you are, and thus, and this is how you put it, “revive something of our true selves.”Christina Slentz Yeah, one of my favorite pieces in Laudato si': Pope Francis alludes to having a place in childhood where we felt a sense of awe and wonder. And I think that that awe and wonder allows us to get back to childhood in some ways, before there was a lot of noise before there was all the different distractions. And I think that that true self is also a little freer to connect to God. I think sometimes about little children and baby Jesus, you know, and that sort of immediate connection that's not really complicated, you know, it's just comfortable. Or feeling the love of God like being a child sitting on the lap of your mom or your dad. And so encouraging people, or providing opportunities for this return to that place of awe and wonder, I think is really important. I think that at the heart of our inability to care for creation is this estrangement from our Creator. So we won't care for something if we don't love it. And in this way, ecological spirituality may be step one in all of this, right? So I think we are really lucky, being here. As I mentioned, our climate is beautiful. It is a beautiful place. We have everything from the ocean to mountains to desert, and many people who live here do really connect with the geography and the beauty of where we are, and so inviting them to take a moment to just pause and think about those places. Think about their senses as they move through the memory of that space, I think is really important before we start any of the other conversations. And so I try to do that, and then we share about it. And I have yet to find somebody that says, “Oh, I just didn't have a place.” Everybody has a place. And many people will say, “I really struggled, because I love this place, and I love that place,” you know. And so it is really great to hear. And I think people really come out of an exercise like that with this new sense of common ground as well. And I think that is so important, right? Because if you ask people like, “Raise your hand, who hates trees?” No one's gonna do it, right? Don't even think anyone does. Or “Raise your hand if you like to litter.” No one's going to say, like, “Oh yeah, I really love throwing things out my window.” And so there is a lot more common ground. And I think that eco spirituality invites us to find out how much we have in common, and actually how much we all yearn for that place of connectedness.Debra Rienstra Oh, yeah. I've noticed, you know, people have so many different feelings that motivate what they might do in a faith and climate space, and there's anger, there's fear, a lot of anxiety. But the trick, I think, is to get to the center, which is love. And the quickest way to do that, maybe, is to find that early love, or a love that's developed over many, even generations, in a particular place, if you're lucky, and you're rooted in some way. I feel like we also, as people of faith, haven't made enough of a case that being closer to the creation is, in fact, a pathway to God. And I see that in a lot of the writings that you have too. It's a way of understanding God better. It's a way of allowing God to speak to us that we sometimes underestimate, I think. There's other ways, of course, but it's one that we tend to underestimate. It is a way to deeper spirituality. So getting people to be in touch with that, it sounds like you've you've worked on that a little bit.Christina Slentz We're very lucky. The Franciscan tradition is pretty rich and present here. The Franciscan School of Theology is located here at the University of San Diego.Debra Rienstra There we go.Christina Slentz I have several secular Franciscans on my team, and a few Franciscan friars. And you know, that's very much at the heart of St. Francis and St. Claire's tradition. St. Bonaventure, who is a Franciscan, actually calls nature, or the environment, the created world, like another book. It's another gospel that tells us something about God's plan.Debra Rienstra Yeah, yeah. So I wanted to quote from Pope Leo's message for the World Day of Prayer for the Care of Creation, which was September one. And I found his message so encouraging, and especially this particular paragraph, it's along the line of seeds here. He writes, “In Christ, we too are seeds, and indeed seeds of peace and hope. The prophet Isaiah tells us that the Spirit of God can make an arid and parched desert into a garden, a place of rest and serenity. In his words, a spirit from on high will be poured out on us, and the wilderness will become a fruitful field, and the fruitful field a forest. Then justice will dwell in the wilderness and righteousness abide in the fruitful field. The work of righteousness will be peace, and the work of righteousness quietness and trust forever. My people will abide in a peaceful habitation, in secure dwellings and in quiet resting places.” So we have this beautiful vision and the sense of vocation of who we are and who our communities are as seeds of peace and hope. So it seems like you experience that in the San Diego Diocese. Are there some particular examples that have been really meaningful and important to you, where you see that “seeds of hope” metaphor being played out?Christina Slentz Yeah, I would point to two areas that I would offer up as good examples. One is a parish that is located in what's called Barrio Logan. It is an ecologically marginalized community. The highways literally forced the school to be moved when they put the highway in right down the middle of the community. And that's the I-5. So it runs all the way from Canada to Mexico. Big highway. In addition, the Coronado Bridge connects to the highway right there. The Navy base is there, and the Port of San Diego all intersects there. So their air quality is really degraded, and it's a socio-economically poor area. It is also a predominantly Hispanic community there. But the Jesuit pastor there, Father Scott Santa Rosa, is a very good community organizer. He led the parish when they were confronted by another warehouse that was going to be added at the port. And the proposal by the company violated the Port Authority's standards, but they were seeking a waiver, and Father Scott brought in the Environmental Health Coalition. He brought in a theologian from University of San Diego. He invited the youth to present on Laudato si' to the adults and really empowered the community, which is that seventh goal of Laudato si', it's very connected to environmental justice. And then they learned, they grew, they came to an understanding that this was not acceptable, and that they wanted to be a voice for their community. They—we traveled. I was very fortunate to kind of engage with them in this process.And we traveled to the Port Authority building the night before the Port Authority was going to make their decision on this, whether or not to grant this waiver. And we said a rosary, which consists of five sets of 10 Hail Marys, roughly. And between each set, somebody spoke and gave their witness. And one of the women stood up and said, “I never thought I would speak publicly in my whole life. I can't believe I'm here. I can't believe I'm speaking, but I found my voice because of this issue.” And I thought, even if we lose, that's such an amazing win that people felt connected to their environment. They understood that they have a voice. They understood their own dignity and the dignity of their community, and felt that it was worth standing up for. And the next day we went, there was demonstration and public witnessing and praying, and then they went in and spoke at the actual hearing. And the first thing that the chairman of the board said, in response to everyone's comments was, “Well, I'm a Catholic, and we have three priests that were here today.” And you know, how many times does a public official make a statement of faith? You know, I thought, “Okay, win number two!” And you know, I'll just go ahead and cut to the chase. And they turned down the company that wanted to put the warehouse in and said, “You know, we just don't think that you've convinced the local community that the benefits of this would be worth it.” And it was amazing.And so that place, they continue to also tend to the care of migrants. They have begun the work of accompanying migrants that are going for their court appointed hearings for their asylum process. And you know, those are not outcomes that are generally favorable, but they are just going and being present with them and, you know, we are on the border. We understand how some of these environmental impacts do entangle with human mobility. And so, you know, there's a lot that this community, that is really one of our poorest communities in San Diego, has brought to the wider San Diego Diocese as more parishes and local Catholics are now mimicking what they have done and joining in this mission, and so they've been an incredible source—this tiny little parish in a poor part of the Diocese with terrible environmental impacts, has actually been a place where things have blossomed and grown, and they actually do have an amazing garden as well.Debra Rienstra Wow, that's an incredible story, and exactly a story of empowerment and resilience, as you suggested, and a story of how low-resource people are not necessarily low-resource people. They have other kinds of resources that may not be visible to the outside, but that can be very powerful, and especially when one of those is faith. It was such a great example of people motivated not only by their, you know, sort of survival, but their faith to do this work. Yeah, wonderful.Christina Slentz I think they understand the impact, right? So if you can shut your windows and turn on your air conditioning, maybe you don't get it.Debra Rienstra Yeah, right. So what would you say are your biggest obstacles and your biggest joys in your work right now?Christina Slentz I think the biggest obstacle is coming up against Catholics and/or Christians, or really any person of faith. But I think this may be especially true to Catholics and Christians who think that our social actions have to be an “either/or” choice, and they resist a “yes/and” mentality, and so they put different issues in competition with each other, right? And, you know, sometimes they think about Cain and Abel, right? This sort of jealousy or comparison can be a real problem. Instead of saying, “Okay, maybe we don't fit in a neat box, but as Catholics, you know, we have to do all the things.” And that kind of privileging one issue or another issue makes us vulnerable to those who would seek division and competition. And I think that when we look at God, you know, God loves all of it, right? God is love, and so there isn't that discrimination in the example of our Creator, and I would, of course, we aren't perfect, you know, but we should aspire to that same kind of comprehensive love.Debra Rienstra Yeah, and we do it together. We don't all have to do every last one of the things. We do it together. What about joys? What are your greatest joys right now in your work?Christina Slentz I think that coming together is really a joy. When I first started this work, I felt like a unicorn. I could either be the only person of faith in an environmental group, or I could be the only environmentalist in a faith group. And so it just was a feeling of being awkward all the time. And I do think that just in the three years that I've been in this position, I am seeing momentum build. I think ecumenicalism is super helpful in this regard. And I think that increasingly people are finding each other, and they are starting to get a little bit of a wake up call. I think it is unfortunate that people in the United States have had to experience some significant catastrophes and human loss and impact before they start to awaken to the issue of climate change or environmental degradation. I think plastics are really a pretty significant issue as well, but I think that more and more, people seem to be coming around to it, and whenever we celebrate together, that gives me joy.Debra Rienstra Yeah, I agree. I'm seeing it happening too, and it keeps me going. It keeps me going to connect with people like you, and every door I open, there's more people of faith doing amazing work, and we are building that mycelial network. And it's pretty great. So what is your favorite gift of the Catholic Church, a gift of wisdom on creation care that you wish everyone would receive?Christina Slentz I am not sure I would say that this is my favorite. But maybe I think that it is very important, is that, you know, in the Catholic community, communion, Eucharist, is really, you know, the summit for Catholics, that each week, at a minimum, we are going to celebrate this liturgy. We break open the Word, and then we celebrate the Eucharist. And one of the things I, you know, find very compelling is the fact that Jesus celebrates at the Last Supper with bread and wine. Jesus didn't get grapes and, you know, a piece of meat, to celebrate that these were both chosen items that were not just created by God, but they involved, as we say, in our celebration, the work of human hands. And so this really represents this call to co-creation, I think. And if that is something that you know, is really at the heart of Catholicism, this, you know, summit of our faith to celebrate the Eucharist—in that, we are called to co-create. And so this tells us something about how we are meant to exist in relationship with the Creator. You know, God reveals God's self to us in the beauty of this creation or in the gift of the Eucharist, and then, in turn, we are called to respond to that love. Otherwise the revelation isn't complete, so our response is to care for creation or to receive the Eucharist, and then go and serve as God has called us to serve. So maybe, maybe this is something that we can offer up.Debra Rienstra So beautifully said, and the intimacy of eating, you know, taking the material, the fruit of the earth and the work of human hands, into ourselves, responding by the Spirit, that intimacy, that physicality, there's a reason that that is the central ritual.Christina Slentz And you know, if I could give you one last image connected to that—because then we become the tabernacle, right? And we think about Noah and the ark, right? And how, you know, creation is destroyed, but the ark holds this refugia right and until it's time for this moment of reconciliation and forgiveness and then renewed flourishing. And you may or may not have heard this story, but when the LA fires raged in Pacific Palisades in January of 2025 the fires swept across the parish and school called Corpus Christi Parish, and it is the home parish of brother James Lockman, one of my dear, dear volunteers. And there was a firefighter who went back to look at the ruins that evening, and he was Catholic, and he came across the tabernacle from the church, and it was the only thing that survived. And when they opened it up, it was pristine on the inside and undamaged. And that Sunday, they took it to St. Monica's Parish, which is one of the very animated creation care parishes in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, and they celebrated Mass there because Corpus Christi did not have a parish right to celebrate in that weekend. And I think about that tabernacle as being, you know—it's to reflect that Ark of the Covenant, right, Ark of Noah, the Ark of the Covenant. And then we have the tabernacle now, and that space of refuge that was preserved, you know. And then, of course, when we take the Eucharist into ourselves, we become that tabernacle. We're walking tabernacles, right? So we are also, then, places of refuge and where we know that God is with us and we can go and serve.Debra Rienstra Christina, it has been such a joy to talk to you. Thank you for your wisdom, for your inspiration, for the way that you deploy your expertise in such compassionate and far reaching ways. It's just been a pleasure. Thank you.Christina Slentz Oh, thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed talking today with you, Debra.Debra Rienstra Thanks for joining us. For show notes and full transcripts, please visit debrarienstra.com and click on the Refugia Podcast tab. This season of the Refugia Podcast is produced with generous funding from the Calvin Institute of Christian Worship. Colin Hoogerwerf is our awesome audio producer. Thanks to Ron Rienstra for content consultation as well as technical and travel support. Till next time, be well. This is a public episode. 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Melky's trash talk hits Goobie parlays harder than Jalen Carter loogie on Dak. The picks? Riskier than a Zach Wilson being alone with your mom. Tune in for NFL chaos, cheekiness, and more Hail Marys than a desperate 0-1 fantasy team.

The rosary has always been a kind of technology.A loop of beads strung together to steady the breath and keep the hands busy while the heart listens for God.But like all good tools, it changes in the hands of each generation.For centuries, the faithful have told a story about St. Dominic receiving the rosary from the Blessed Mother herself in the midsts of a terrible thunder storm. The story still moves me, even knowing it's a legend shaped by time and longing. What matters isn't whether it happened exactly that way, but that someone felt the need to place prayer beads in human hands as a bridge between heaven and earth. Somewhere in that imagination is truth.Today, on the Feast of Our Lady of the Rosaries, I find myself drawn not only to the miracle but to the method. The rosary, like all living practices, survives because it adapts. There isn't just one rosary; there are many: Dominican, Franciscan, Anglican, Brigantine and each one invites us to join the conversation in our own language of touch, rhythm, and breath.The Body Remembers What the Mind ForgetsPrayer begins in the body.That's why a string of beads matters. It gives the restless fingers something holy to do.When I first learned to pray the rosary as a child, I didn't understand its power. I thought it was about remembering the words: fifty Hail Marys, five Our Fathers, all lined up like soldiers in a row. But the miracle was never in the repetition alone. It was in what repetition made possible.After the first few rounds, the mind lets go.The mouth keeps moving, the beads keep sliding, and something quieter rises beneath the noise of thought.The prayer becomes breath.The prayer becomes listening.This is the contemplative secret of the rosary: it distracts the body so the soul can pay attention.Spiritual TechnologyWhen Brian and I talk about spiritual technology, we mean the humble tools that shape the interior life.A candle. A cup. A breath. A string of beads.The rosary gathers intention the way a river gathers rain, one drop at a time until the flow is strong enough to move the landscape of the heart.Each bead is a point of focus, each prayer a pulse of energy. Through rhythm and touch, intention begins to cohere.You can dedicate a rosary to almost anything: gratitude, justice, grief, courage, clarity. What matters most is that it brings your scattered self into alignment. The prayers don't have to be perfect. They only have to be yours, repeated until they teach your hands the shape of devotion.The Many RosariesThere are countless ways to enter this practice.The Dominican rosary with its five decades of ten beads.The Franciscan rosary with seven sets.The Anglican rosary with four weeks of seven.Each is a pattern of circles within circles. A small cosmos designed to hold intention.And then there are the rosaries yet to be made.Many of us in Creation Spirituality and Christopagan practice are rediscovering what the rosary can become. We are writing new prayers, crafting beads for Brigid, for the Elements, for the Four Paths: Via Positiva, Negativa, Creativa, and Transformativa.The point isn't to replace the old but to join the lineage of makers who found their way by rhythm.The first time you sit down to create your own sequence, it may feel awkward. You may worry about getting it wrong. Don't. The earliest rosaries were simply strings of knots. Like any craft, prayer is learned in the doing. Write, pray, revise. Let the rhythm teach you.A Practice for Neurodivergent SoulsOne of the unexpected gifts of the rosary is how kind it is to a neurodivergent mind. The beads act like a fidget for the spirit, a sensory anchor for wandering attention. Each movement provides feedback: a gentle click, a shift of texture, a return to center.In that simple tactile motion, the scattered mind finds coherence.It's no accident that monks once used knotted cords, and devotees of every faith found something physical to hold. The body is not an obstacle to prayer; it is its doorway.The beads remind us that the sacred is not abstract. It lives in motion, in muscle memory, in the rhythm of the breath we already carry.Writing the Prayer That Fits Your HandsA traditional Hail Mary is short. That rhythm is what makes it powerful. When crafting your own prayers, remember that the rosary teaches through pacing. Keep them simple. A few phrases that flow easily through the lips. Something that can be memorized by the hands before it ever settles in the head.If a line feels awkward, change it.If a phrase feels hollow, replace it.The rosary rewards patience and play. You are allowed to experiment until the words hum in your chest.Every person's rosary will sound a little different, like accents in a shared language.That variety is not disorder it's creation in motion.A Universal PatternThough we call it the rosary, the practice of counting prayers is nearly universal.In Buddhism and Hinduism, the mala carries mantras through 108 beads.In Islam, the tasbih praises the 99 names of God.In the Eastern churches, the chotki keeps the Jesus Prayer alive in the breath.Each path strings intention into matter. Each one teaches that holiness is rhythmic, embodied, and endlessly adaptable. We aren't stealing from these traditions when we notice the resonance. We are witnessing the divine imagination repeating itself through many hands.Contemplation in MotionThe rosary is a teacher of balance.It gives you something to do when you don't know what to say.It gives your body a rhythm when the mind is full of static.It teaches that the sacred and the ordinary are separated only by attention.When we pray the beads, we don't escape the world, we enter it more deeply. Each repetition polishes the mirror of awareness until the face of Christ, the Lady, the Light, the Flame, whatever name you whisper, shines clearly in your own reflection.That is the quiet revolution of contemplative practice: it makes the heart spacious enough to hold the world.BenedictionBlessed Lady of the Rosaries,who turns the rhythm of human hands into prayer,teach us to count our days not by fear but by love.May every bead we touch remind us that the Holy is near,within breath, within heart, within the pulse of life itself.Guide our fingers through doubt,our minds through noise,our spirits through the long night of forgetting.May we remember that every prayer,whether whispered or woven,is one more spark in the chain of lightthat binds creation together.Amen.Thanks for reading! This post is public so feel free to share it.Thank you for Tips / Donations: * https://ko-fi.com/cedorsett * https://patreon.com/cedorsett * https://cash.app/$CreationsPaths* Substack: https://www.creationspaths.com/New to The Seraphic Grove learn more For Educational Resource: https://wisdomscry.com Social Connections: * BlueSky https://bsky.app/profile/creationspaths.com * Threads https://www.threads.net/@creationspaths * Instagram https://www.instagram.com/creationspaths/#Christopagan #CreationSpirituality #Rosary #Mysticism #SpiritualPractice #PrayerBeads #Interspiritual #MagicAndMystery #Brigid #SacredTechnologyChapters:00:00 Introduction: The Rosaries00:47 Host Introductions01:13 Episode Overview & Call to Action01:54 The Legend of St. Dominic and the Rosary03:23 Types of Rosaries Explained05:56 Creating Your Own Rosary Practice07:08 The Rosary as Spiritual Technology07:50 Benefits for Neurodivergent Practitioners09:03 Intention and Focus in Rosary Practice11:39 Developing a Brigid Rosary14:24 Crafting Your Own Prayers15:58 Flexible Approaches to the Rosary16:46 Getting Started: The Anglican Rosary17:19 Creation Spirituality Rosary17:55 Crafting Your Own Rosary18:55 Tips for Beginning Your Practice19:48 Journaling Your Experience20:26 Prayer Beads Across World Traditions21:28 Empowerment Through Personal Rosaries21:44 Engagement & Discussion Get full access to Creation's Paths at www.creationspaths.com/subscribe

Brad Evans & Ryan Horvat break down their favorite NFL Week 5 plus money prop bets.

In this episode of Unwritten, Trevor sits down with Caitlyn Robinson to talk about how God intervened in her family's most earthshattering tragedy, transforming their despair into a profound witness of miraculous healing and faith.Whether you're a parent facing unimaginable difficulty, someone wrestling with the power of prayer, or just curious about how divine grace and the communion of saints can move mountains, this conversation will inspire you to believe in the impossible and recognize God's active presence in our darkest hours.What You'll Hear:Caitlyn, a mother of nine, recounts the terrifying Sunday morning when her 14-month-old son, Vincent, was found lifeless after drowning in their backyard hot tub, and the immediate, frantic attempts at CPR. The initial despair as Vincent showed no signs of life, the family's fervent prayers and Hail Marys, and the powerful, immediate prayer chain that ignited through their community, parish, and beyond.The hospital's grim prognosis after Vincent received 52 minutes of CPR with no pulse, Caitlyn's initial skepticism about a full recovery, and her profound realization of the intercessory power of the communion of saints.The pivotal role of the Novena to Blessed Michael McGivney, the placement of a relic on Vincent's chest during a hospital Mass, and how this led to his miraculous, complete recovery, including an organ-clear MRI and Vincent walking out of the hospital on the ninth day of the novena, perfectly fine.Hit follow or subscribe so you don't miss future episodes!

Nate Tice & Charles McDonald dive into the NFL Week 3 slate with their bold predictions, matchups to watch and more. The hosts kick things off with the Los Angeles Rams taking on the Philadelphia Eagles, before deep diving on our hoss fight of the week, Denver Broncos @ Los Angeles Chargers and a huge Monday night game with the Detroit Lions taking on the Baltimore Ravens.Later, Panning for Prospects returns as Nate & Charles check in on a few of their favorite draft prospects, with Nate highlighting the San Francisco 49ers rookies and Indiana QB Fernando Mendoza and Charles getting a take off his back on Miami QB Carson Beck. The duo wrap things up with their Hail Marys of the week, involving the New York Giants and Caleb Williams.(2:35) - Rams @ Eagles preview(19:50) - Broncos @ Chargers preview(35:00) - Lions @ Ravens preview(48:15) - Panning for Prospects(1:05:35) - Hail Mary bold predictions of the week Subscribe to Football 301 on your favorite podcast app:

Nate Tice & Charles McDonald dive into the NFL Week 3 slate with their bold predictions, matchups to watch and more. The hosts kick things off with the Los Angeles Rams taking on the Philadelphia Eagles, before deep diving on our hoss fight of the week, Denver Broncos @ Los Angeles Chargers and a huge Monday night game with the Detroit Lions taking on the Baltimore Ravens.Later, Panning for Prospects returns as Nate & Charles check in on a few of their favorite draft prospects, with Nate highlighting the San Francisco 49ers rookies and Indiana QB Fernando Mendoza and Charles getting a take off his back on Miami QB Carson Beck. The duo wrap things up with their Hail Marys of the week, involving the New York Giants and Caleb Williams.(2:35) - Rams @ Eagles preview(19:50) - Broncos @ Chargers preview(35:00) - Lions @ Ravens preview(48:15) - Panning for Prospects(1:05:35) - Hail Mary bold predictions of the week Subscribe to Football 301 on your favorite podcast app:

Brad Evans & Ryan Horvat break down their favorite plus money bets for NFL Week 3.

Brad Evans & Ryan Horvat break down their favorite plus money NFL Week 2 bets.

Fantasy football fun is here—and with it comes the stress of rivalries, drama and other pressures – like coming in last in your league and facing an embarrassing punishment. Former NFL All-Pro fullback Ovie Mughelli will share insider tips for making the most of your season while keeping the focus on fun. Ovie is teaming up with DenTek® to talk about how to choose a winning lineup, reduce game-day stress, and avoid habits like grinding your teeth when the competition gets intense. Plus, he'll share the details of the laugh-out-loud Ultimate Fantasy Football Punishment Contest, giving fantasy veterans and rookies alike a reason to smile all season long. DenTek® is the #1 over-the-counter dental guard brand,* tackling the issue head-on with their “Fantasy Guards” campaign.   WHAT YOU'LL LEARN ABOUT FANTASY FOOTBALL WILL INCLUDE:1.      FUN — Expert tips for enjoying the game when picking a team and players2.      GAME TIME — The excitement and laughs of the ‘Ultimate Fantasy Football Punishment' contest3.      DEFENSE — Strategies to reduce game-day anxiety and protect your smile4.      PRO PROTECTION — How to protect your winning grin during the season with custom fit nighttime mouthguards  Ovie Mughelli is a Strategic Business Partner, Inspiring Speaker, and Sustainability Leader. His name means “King” in his parents' native tongue of Urhobo. Widely recognized as a two-time All-Pro NFL veteran, Ovie played nine seasons with the Baltimore Ravens and Atlanta Falcons. During his sophomore year in the NFL, he sustained an injury and was told he would never fully recover. Rather than allowing it to define him, he used it as motivation to become one of the highest-paid fullbacks in the league at the time. Today, Ovie focuses on educating and providing solutions in the healthcare space, helping practitioners and corporate decision-makers deliver better services to patients and employees while also improving profitability.On a personal level, Ovie is known for his love of life, good energy, and devotion to family. His children are his greatest inspiration and keep him grounded. A lifelong singer, he has been part of the church choir since childhood and even performed as a lead in the NFL Players Association men's choir. Though relentless and strong-willed in his pursuits, Ovie connects easily with others through empathy and laughter. He enjoys spending downtime with his children, gaming, and watching movies with his wife, Masika. Passionate about preparing his children for adulthood, he also takes pride in being a devoted husband.For Ovie, success is not measured by accolades alone but by peace, happiness, and the ability to provide for his family. Guided by the principle of doing unto others as he would have them do unto him, he strives to be remembered as someone who gave more than he took and who consistently added value to the lives of others—especially the youth.When it comes to entrepreneurship, Ovie has learned that the journey mirrors the unpredictability of professional sports, with “Hail Marys” often becoming part of the process when one is deeply committed to a mission. Through his speaking platform, he encourages aspiring entrepreneurs to research thoroughly, embrace failure and adversity as part of the process, and build resilience to come back stronger than before. His message extends beyond business ownership, inspiring forward-thinking professionals to push themselves into the top 5% of their fields by outworking their peers strategically, persevering with wisdom, and learning from every mistake. Ovie visits with Mark alyn on this edition of Late Night Health.Find out more at: www.DenTek.com/UltimatePunishment Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/late-night-health-radio--2804369/support.

Fantasy football fun is here—and with it comes the stress of rivalries, drama and other pressures – like coming in last in your league and facing an embarrassing punishment. Former NFL All-Pro fullback Ovie Mughelli will share insider tips for making the most of your season while keeping the focus on fun. Ovie is teaming up with DenTek® to talk about how to choose a winning lineup, reduce game-day stress, and avoid habits like grinding your teeth when the competition gets intense. Plus, he'll share the details of the laugh-out-loud Ultimate Fantasy Football Punishment Contest, giving fantasy veterans and rookies alike a reason to smile all season long. DenTek® is the #1 over-the-counter dental guard brand,* tackling the issue head-on with their “Fantasy Guards” campaign.   WHAT YOU'LL LEARN ABOUT FANTASY FOOTBALL WILL INCLUDE:1.      FUN — Expert tips for enjoying the game when picking a team and players2.      GAME TIME — The excitement and laughs of the ‘Ultimate Fantasy Football Punishment' contest3.      DEFENSE — Strategies to reduce game-day anxiety and protect your smile4.      PRO PROTECTION — How to protect your winning grin during the season with custom fit nighttime mouthguards  Ovie Mughelli is a Strategic Business Partner, Inspiring Speaker, and Sustainability Leader. His name means “King” in his parents' native tongue of Urhobo. Widely recognized as a two-time All-Pro NFL veteran, Ovie played nine seasons with the Baltimore Ravens and Atlanta Falcons. During his sophomore year in the NFL, he sustained an injury and was told he would never fully recover. Rather than allowing it to define him, he used it as motivation to become one of the highest-paid fullbacks in the league at the time. Today, Ovie focuses on educating and providing solutions in the healthcare space, helping practitioners and corporate decision-makers deliver better services to patients and employees while also improving profitability.On a personal level, Ovie is known for his love of life, good energy, and devotion to family. His children are his greatest inspiration and keep him grounded. A lifelong singer, he has been part of the church choir since childhood and even performed as a lead in the NFL Players Association men's choir. Though relentless and strong-willed in his pursuits, Ovie connects easily with others through empathy and laughter. He enjoys spending downtime with his children, gaming, and watching movies with his wife, Masika. Passionate about preparing his children for adulthood, he also takes pride in being a devoted husband.For Ovie, success is not measured by accolades alone but by peace, happiness, and the ability to provide for his family. Guided by the principle of doing unto others as he would have them do unto him, he strives to be remembered as someone who gave more than he took and who consistently added value to the lives of others—especially the youth.When it comes to entrepreneurship, Ovie has learned that the journey mirrors the unpredictability of professional sports, with “Hail Marys” often becoming part of the process when one is deeply committed to a mission. Through his speaking platform, he encourages aspiring entrepreneurs to research thoroughly, embrace failure and adversity as part of the process, and build resilience to come back stronger than before. His message extends beyond business ownership, inspiring forward-thinking professionals to push themselves into the top 5% of their fields by outworking their peers strategically, persevering with wisdom, and learning from every mistake. Ovie visits with Mark alyn on this edition of Late Night Health.Find out more at: www.DenTek.com/UltimatePunishment Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/late-night-health-radio--2804369/support.

Plays of the Week - Wk 1 Michael Penix is ready for liftoff. Chris Rodriguez has serious TD upside. Josh Downs and Jauan Jennings are ready to crush Ja'Tavian Sanders and Cole Kmet are sneaky streamers. Jerome Ford is a must-start, Cedric Tillman will answer Hail Marys. --

When we first meet business owners, it's kind of like anything else. We try to make ourselves look better than we typically are doing. And so we tell some stories that may or may not be true. In that process of getting to know business owners, we realize that there's a lot underneath the surface that we want to be able to explore—to see, ultimately, for one purpose: to liberate them from chaos and make time for what matters most. We're not impressed by storytelling much anymore because we've heard so many stories. By the time we peel back the curtain, we realize, "Oh, you're just like everybody else." And now we can get to work. Once we realize that, we can really get to work and take the sheen off. I want to explore something that we hear a lot from business owners when they first tell us everything's rosy, everything's good. And then we realize, “I'm not the best communicator. I really kind of stink at it.” Not only that, but my time starts to go away because I feel like I'm having to recommunicate over and over again. Hey, it's Scott Beebe with Business On Purpose. I mentioned this in the last few episodes, but if you haven't checked out The Dickie & Donnie Show, make sure to do that. It's both on this podcast thread for Business On Purpose and on our My Business On Purpose YouTube channel. You can actually watch them—they're super fun. Two of the coaches at Business On Purpose, who I have the privilege of working with, have a really great show. Dickie and Donnie—that's not their real names, but you'll get it the more you listen. Let's explore the concept of retention in the Big Five Feedback Loop Models. We want to guard our time like we guard our money. How do we do that? Let's root this conversation in communication. It's often a challenge in business owners' lives, and many owners find themselves in a constant state of reaction. They're waking up to chaos, spending their days as little firefighters—putting out fires, throwing Hail Marys, and juggling multiple tasks simultaneously. There's a mindset shift that's necessary to address that challenge. One of the key strategies is implementing what we call an ideal weekly schedule. We want to be great communicators, great budgeters, great job costers, and inventory takers—we want to do really well in the day-to-day tasks of business. But too many times we look up at 6 p.m. and say, “I got nothing done today.” The ideal weekly schedule involves working your week in time blocks. Kind of like Tetris. Remember that game? You got little blocks and you try to fit them in. That's what the ideal weekly schedule looks like. It recognizes that time—not money—is your most valuable asset. You can make more money. You can't make more time. Dietrich Bonhoeffer called time irrevocable. So why not manage it as carefully as your money? Think of your week as a budget of time slots that you allocate to specific tasks. Need time for estimating, sales, outreach, marketing? Then schedule it. Expecting client calls? Set aside time for those, too. The key is to predetermine these time buckets instead of letting others dictate your schedule. If you don't, someone else will—me, anybody else. You might think you need to be available whenever a client calls. That's a red flag. Firefighters and police officers are trained to respond in emergencies. That's not your role. The moment someone else is in charge of your time, you've lost control. I've heard it said that email is someone else's agenda for your day. Do you know the average person spends over three hours a day on email? The same goes for text messages and phone calls. When you feel like you need to be constantly available, ask yourself: is it truly necessary—or is it your ego needing validation? Here's what's likely happening: you're suffering from a disease we've diagnosed called LLVD—Latest Loudest Voice Disease. Sounds gross, right? But it's real. I'll go deeper into that in a future podcast, but for now, bookmark that term. If you heard it and thought, “Yep, that's me,” then it's time to step back and reassess. Remember this: your time is your time, and your calendar should reflect that. Some of you might be thinking, “No, it's not.” But yes, it is. We can go back and forth, but it's still your time. You can do something else with it. There may be consequences, but it's still yours. Until you believe that, you're not in a position to effectively schedule and manage your day. In a future podcast, I'll share a quote by Annie Dillard: “How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives.” You may argue that you need to be available for vendors, customers, or pressing matters. That's fair. But you can still meet those needs within a structured schedule. The goal is to take control of your time and use it intentionally, not reactively. Implementing this blocked schedule approach helps you create a more organized, efficient, and less stressful work environment. It allows you to focus on what matters, avoid interruptions, and ultimately improve productivity and work-life balance. I recently read a book by Dan Martell called Buy Back Your Time—great book. He talks about hiring an assistant to help free you up. After ten years in business, I realized I needed that. We've had people help before, but now we've brought on what we call an implementation assistant. For the first three months, their role is focused solely on me—getting things off my plate so I can do three primary things: coach my small group of clients, develop new tools (like a powerful operating system tool we're building), and do storytelling—podcasts, speaking engagements, and events. Anything outside those three priorities pulls from my time, and I can't get that time back. That's why we brought in support. We now have three scheduled email check-ins daily: morning, midday, and afternoon. Notice: I'm not in my email all day. In fact, I've only checked it two or three times in the last four weeks. And today? It's Monday, and I haven't even looked. But I know it'll be cleared by noon. Why? Because I value my time. We're investing in someone else to help us buy back time—because time is the one thing you can't get back. If you've got questions about any of this, go to businessonpurpose.com/ask. If you're a business owner with three or more employees doing $1M+ in revenue, we'd love to chat for 15–20 minutes. No strings. If you want to know how to work with us, we'll tell you—but only if you ask. Our goal is simple: to help you be liberated from chaos so you can make time for what matters most.  

The curator compiles his favorite clips of the TESD Pateron

In their discussion of the struggle with the passions and in particular those associated with the bodily appetites and what we experienced through the senses, the fathers do not neglect to show us the effect that our thoughts and our lack of watchfulness can have upon the unconscious. Certain images and ideas will emerge from our dreams and often take on a form that can be agitating or of a subject matter that is disturbing spiritually. The fathers want us to understand that we are not morally culpable for what arises during the night in our dreams nor can the Evil One directly influence what happens because of our dreams such as nocturnal emissions. Yet, are not to ruminate upon the meaning or the content of these dreams during the day. To do so is to open ourselves “daydreaming”, where we openly allow ourselves to think about images thoughts and ideas that came to mind during the night. Such rumination then can be a source of temptation for us. It is best to set such thoughts aside and focus on fostering temperance and love. As long as we are focused upon God then what arises out of the unconscious will eventually be healed as well. However, if we are slothful or worse prideful we become more subject to the effects of such a dreams or their frequency will become more prominent in our life because of our lack of spiritual discipline. In Hypothesis XXXII, our attention is drawn toward the work of contrition. Saint Gregory tells us that contrition manifest itself in many forms of spiritual beauty. This is striking if only because of the negative connotation that the word contrition sometimes holds. Saint Gregory tells us that ultimately it is a path to beauty, goodness and love. When a soul first seeks after God at the outset it feels contrition out of fear. It is humbled by the depths of its poverty and how contrary this is to that which is good and to our essential dignity. Tears begin to flow and as they do the soul begins to develop a certain courage in the spiritual life and is warmed by a desire for heavenly joy. The soul which shortly before wept from the fear that it might be condemned, eventually weeps bitterly simply because of how far it perceives itself from the kingdom of heaven. As the soul is cleansed, however, it clearly beholds before it what the choirs of angels are and the splendor that belongs to these blessed spirits. Ultimately, the soul begins to behold the vision of God himself. One then weeps for joy as it waits to experience this vision in its fullness. When perfect contrition emerges then the soul's thirst for God is satiated; tears now turning in to the living waters of the kingdom. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:11:02 Lorraine Green: Fr., can you take a Mass request?  Where would we send that is so?  And the stipend? 00:11:33 Suzanne Romano: Reacted to I've got a (pet) rab... with "

Nick Saban is becoming a mover and shaker in the political world, but is that a world he wants to get involved in? Plus, we give our picks for the Bama players we want on the field for a Hail Mary. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Larry Smith of the “WNBA on Ion” & “The IlliniGuys Sports Spectacular” talks What is Wrong with the Illini Men's Basketball Team with Mike Cagley. Share this podcast on your social media! We ask YOU to help Big Sports Radio & IlliniGuys Sports Spectacular grow on social media by following us on all our social media and engaging with the content posted. Every like, love, comment & share help Big Sports Radio and IlliniGuys Sports Spectacular reach more people and establish our position as the leader in entertaining, fast-paced, non-political sports programming. Don't miss our college sports focused podcasts: IlliniGuys Sports Spectacular I on the Illini Mike Cagley's Heat Checks & Hail Marys Thanks for listening!

An essay from Hayden Donnell arguing that according to the Bible, Donald Trump is definitely the antichrist. Hayden urges us to engage in some heavy duty Hail Marys, because if recent events have taught us anything, it's that being an irredeemable moron with a repellant personality and the countenance of a salamander wearing human skin is, if anything, an asset when it comes to inflicting misery on a global scale. See you in the comments at https://www.webworm.co This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.webworm.co/subscribe

Breaking Richard Allen; The Delphi Disgrace What happens when the justice system bends the rules a little too far? Richard Allen's defense team is making waves with a motion to correct errors in his conviction, unveiling alleged procedural missteps that might blow this case wide open. From questionable transfers to solitary confinement, to alleged violations of due process that scream “red flag,” this episode unpacks the avalanche of accusations against the state. Did the system's shortcuts rob Allen of a fair trial, or are these just desperate Hail Marys? And what happens when you trace the chaos back to a single decision? Is this motion the start of a new trial, or just a rollercoaster with no brakes? #TrueCrime #JusticeSystem #LegalAnalysis #RichardAllenCase #DefenseDiaries #HiddenKillers #MurderTrial Want to listen to ALL of our podcasts AD-FREE? Subscribe through APPLE PODCASTS, and try it for three days free: https://tinyurl.com/ycw626tj Follow Our Other Cases: https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com The latest on The Downfall of Diddy, The Trial of Karen Read, The Murder Of Maddie Soto, Catching the Long Island Serial Killer, Awaiting Admission: BTK's Unconfessed Crimes, Delphi Murders: Inside the Crime, Chad & Lori Daybell, The Murder of Ana Walshe, Alex Murdaugh, Bryan Kohberger, Lucy Letby, Kouri Richins, Malevolent Mormon Mommys, The Menendez Brothers: Quest For Justice, The Murder of Stephen Smith, The Murder of Madeline Kingsbury, The Murder Of Sandra Birchmore, and much more! Listen at https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com

What happens when the justice system bends the rules a little too far? Richard Allen's defense team is making waves with a motion to correct errors in his conviction, unveiling alleged procedural missteps that might blow this case wide open. From questionable transfers to solitary confinement, to alleged violations of due process that scream “red flag,” this episode unpacks the avalanche of accusations against the state. Did the system's shortcuts rob Allen of a fair trial, or are these just desperate Hail Marys? And what happens when you trace the chaos back to a single decision? Is this motion the start of a new trial, or just a rollercoaster with no brakes? #TrueCrime #JusticeSystem #LegalAnalysis #RichardAllenCase #DefenseDiaries #HiddenKillers #MurderTrial Want to listen to ALL of our podcasts AD-FREE? Subscribe through APPLE PODCASTS, and try it for three days free: https://tinyurl.com/ycw626tj Follow Our Other Cases: https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com The latest on The Downfall of Diddy, The Trial of Karen Read, The Murder Of Maddie Soto, Catching the Long Island Serial Killer, Awaiting Admission: BTK's Unconfessed Crimes, Delphi Murders: Inside the Crime, Chad & Lori Daybell, The Murder of Ana Walshe, Alex Murdaugh, Bryan Kohberger, Lucy Letby, Kouri Richins, Malevolent Mormon Mommys, The Menendez Brothers: Quest For Justice, The Murder of Stephen Smith, The Murder of Madeline Kingsbury, The Murder Of Sandra Birchmore, and much more! Listen at https://www.truecrimetodaypod.com

Stats geek Neil Greenberg on Hail Marys and Rookie QBs

Week 8's Sunday slate is in the books and there were performances and injuries that will have long term fantasy implications. Andy Behrens joins Matt Harmon to breakdown all the action and place the games in three categories: Games we care about the most, games we sort of care about and games that could have been an email.Harmon begins the show, like he always does, by sharing one thing he cares and doesn't care about from SNF's clash between the Dallas Cowboys and San Francisco 49ers . Harmon and Behrens then recap a wild early game slate and provide instant fantasy analysis for the late window games as well:(1:30) - Matt's Care/Don't Care monologue for SNF Cowboys-49ers(10:30) - Matt and Andy's games they really care about: CHI@WSH, BAL@CLE, AZ@MIA(38:00) - Matt and Andy's games they sort of care about: ATL@TB, IND@HOU, GB@JAX, PHI@CIN, BUF@SEA(59:30) - Matt and Andy's games that could have been an email: KC@LV, LAC@NO, CAR@DEN, NYJ@NE, TEN@DET Subscribe to the Yahoo Fantasy Forecast on your favorite podcast app:

Hail Marys, Grand Slams, Jamesis Winston. quotes!   Host C.J. Sullivan, the Bet Detective, gets into the weekend of games that produced actual human excitment!  The Bombino thend detonates bombs for the Game 3 of the World Series and the Monday Night Football matchup between NYG/PIT.  The Deli Llama ten recaps the NFL Week 8 games including all the beats and covers .  Finally, a Man in the Box segment on living statues and catalytic convertors thieves.  Picks with bits are for tobacco use only! JOIN the SGPN community #DegensOnlyExclusive Merch, Contests and Bonus Episodes ONLY on Patreon - https://sg.pn/patreonDiscuss with fellow degens on Discord - https://sg.pn/discordDownload The Free SGPN App - https://sgpn.appCheck out the Sports Gambling Podcast on YouTube - https://sg.pn/YouTubeCheck out our website - http://sportsgamblingpodcast.comSUPPORT us by supporting our partnersUnderdog Fantasy code SGPN - Up to $1000 in BONUS CASH - https://play.underdogfantasy.com/p-sgpnRithmm - Player Props and Picks - Free 7 day trial! http://sportsgamblingpodcast.com/rithmmADVERTISE with SGPNInterested in advertising? Contact sales@sgpn.ioFOLLOW The Sports Gambling Podcast On Social MediaTwitter - http://www.twitter.com/gamblingpodcastInstagram - http://www.instagram.com/sportsgamblingpodcastTikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@gamblingpodcastFacebook - http://www.facebook.com/sportsgamblingpodcastFOLLOW The Hosts On Social MediaSean Green - http://www.twitter.com/seantgreenRyan Kramer - http://www.twitter.com/kramercentric================================================================Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER CO, DC, IL, IN, LA, MD, MS, NJ, OH, PA, TN, VA, WV, WY Call 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY) Call 1-800-327-5050 (MA)21+ to wager. Please Gamble Responsibly. Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (KS, NV), 1-800 BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help (MI)================================================================

Jonny Athletic makes his weekly appearance to talk Hail Marys, Vikings and Wolves!

Jonny Athletic makes his weekly appearance to talk Hail Marys, Vikings and Wolves!

Jonny Athletic makes his weekly appearance to talk Hail Marys, Vikings and Wolves!

CBS didn't just deceptively edit a Speaker Mike Johnson response, they vivisected it. And the Panic is very real for Kamala, who is now mulling the idea of going on the Joe Rogan Podcast, in the Hail Mary of all Hail Marys. Visit the Howie Carr Radio Network website to access columns, podcasts, and other exclusive content.

Full Text of ReadingsMemorial of Our Lady of the Rosary Lectionary: 461The Saint of the day is Our Lady of the RosaryThe Story of Our Lady of the Rosary Saint Pius V established the feast of Our Lady of Victory to thank God for the Christian defeat of the Turks at Lepanto—a victory attributed to praying the rosary. Pope Gregory XIII changed the name to Feast of the Holy Rosary–originally celebrated on the first Sunday in October–in 1573. Pope Clement XI extended the feast to the universal Church in 1716. And in 1913, Saint Pius X set the date for the feast that we know today of October 7. The development of the rosary has a long history. First a practice developed of praying 150 Our Fathers in imitation of the 150 Psalms. Then there was a parallel practice of praying 150 Hail Marys. Soon a mystery of Jesus' life was attached to each Hail Mary. Though Mary's giving of the rosary to Saint Dominic is recognized as a legend, the development of this prayer form owes much to the followers of Saint Dominic. One of them, Alan de la Roche, was known as “the apostle of the rosary.” He founded the first Confraternity of the Rosary in the 15th century. In the 16th century, the rosary was developed to consist of 15 mysteries: joyful, sorrowful and glorious. In 2002, Pope John Paul II added the five Mysteries of Light to this devotion. Reflection The purpose of the rosary is to help us meditate on the great mysteries of our salvation. Pius XII called it a compendium of the gospel. The main focus is on Jesus—his birth, life, death, and resurrection. The “Our Fathers” remind us that Jesus' Father is the initiator of salvation. The “Hail Marys” remind us to join with Mary in contemplating these mysteries. They also make us aware that Mary was and is intimately joined with her Son in all the mysteries of his earthly and heavenly existence. The “Glory Bes” remind us that the purpose of all life is the glory of the Trinity. The rosary appeals to many. It is simple. The constant repetition of words helps create an atmosphere in which to contemplate the mysteries of God. We sense that Jesus and Mary are with us in the joys and sorrows of life. We grow in hope that God will bring us to share in the glory of Jesus and Mary forever. Saint of the Day, Copyright Franciscan Media

Week 4 of the Big 12 college football season kicked off the majority of conference play! There were upsets across the board, and wild Hail Mary and more. Heartland College Sports' Pete Mundo reacts to another crazy week of Big 12 football. 00:00 - 1:17 Intro 1:18 - 6:20 Colorado vs. Baylor 6:20 - 11:22 Utah vs. Oklahoma State 11:22 - 17:32 Kansas State v. BYU 17:32 - 22:22 TCU vs. SMU 22:22 - 30:00 Kansas vs. West Virginia 30:00 - 33:57 Texas Tech vs. Arizona State 33:57 - 37:00 Cincinnati vs. Houston 37:01 - 39:39 Iowa State vs. Arkansas State

The Ringer's Bill Simmons updates his NBA tier list after the latest free agent moves and then discusses what he thinks Danny Ainge's plan is with Lauri Markkanen, why the CBA is broken, and the thought process behind Wyc Grousbeck's decision to sell his stake in the Celtics (02:06). Next, Bill is joined by Fox Sports' Rob Stone to discuss the disappointing USMNT loss to Uruguay, debate whether Christian Pulisic is good enough to be the best player on a team, talk about the lost opportunities to capitalize on soccer interest in the country, and more (31:39). Bill is also joined by Van Lathan, and they talk through the drafting of Bronny James, the hope they have for 'Beverly Hills Cop: Axel F' to be decent, what will happen with Joe Biden, the Kendrick Lamar–Drake beef, and their thoughts on Season 3 of FX's 'The Bear' (55:24). Host: Bill Simmons Guests: Rob Stone and Van Lathan Producers: Steve Ceruti and Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Questions Covered:  03:08 – Regarding Mary’s bodily death, is it a valid theology opinion or position to take that she did not die but was assumed without dying first, given its not part of the dogma itself?  05:46 – I heard a priest say that even an atheist can get to heaven, is this true?  16:52 – Why does the rosary have ten Hail Marys in a row? Is there a significance to this?  22:28 – Do rights exist or are rights just something that came out of the enlightenment period?   35:13 – Can the verse Act 8:16 and Acts 19:1-6 be used in an argument for the efficacy of Baptism?   44:35 – Is there any connection of “That which dwells” from the Old Testament to the Holy Spirit?  52:47 – Why are the Gospels written in third person?   …