Podcast appearances and mentions of jay man

Shelley and Rachel are about to walk down the aisle, but are too haunted by what happened Under the Mountain to find any joy with their so-called beloved. But then Rhys shows up, whisking them away to the Night Court, and at last they find some peace. Will they join Rhys and forsake the Spring Court, or return to Tamlin and advocate for their freedom and sanity?   Find and follow our insta @canddpod Our intro and outro music is Take it Slow by Jay Man https://www.our-music-box.com/  

The complete archive of Subversive episodes, including exclusive episodes and my writing, is available on Substack.For a bit less, you can also subscribe to the podcast sans writing on Patreon. This is how the show is financed and grows, so I appreciate every contribution!Please subscribe at:⁠⁠https://www.alexkaschuta.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/aksubversive⁠Our chat explores the evolution of Human Biodiversity (HBD) discourse and the challenges of understanding complex data related to cognitive stratification and social mobility. We also discuss the impact of genetic technologies on future societal structures and the cultural perspectives surrounding fertility technologies, particularly in Eastern Europe. We also discuss the complexities of the economic viability of modern society, the challenges of immigration and integration, the rise of woke culture, the fragility of liberalism, the dynamics of gender, financial status, and relationships, particularly in the context of the baby boom and modern dating challenges. Our conversation also touches on parenting, emphasizing the limited impact of parenting styles on child development and the importance of understanding the realities of modern relationships. JayMan is a pseudonymous blogger: unz.com/author/jayman/ and can be found on X.com @JayMan471 Chapters 00:00 The Evolution of Human Biodiversity Discourse 04:00 The Impact of HBD on Society 08:01 Understanding Averages and Cognitive Stratification 09:50 Social Mobility and Assortative Mating 13:58 The Future of Genetic Technologies 17:51 Cultural Perspectives on Fertility Technologies 21:54 The Role of Scientific Discovery in Progress 29:02 The Economic Viability of Society 30:42 Immigration and Integration Challenges 32:52 Experiencing Dystopia: A Personal Account 36:43 The Rise of Woke Culture and Backlash 40:20 The Right's Response to Woke Culture 44:57 The Future of Immigration Policy 49:50 Global Voices and Cultural Shifts

Shelley and Rachel are taken to the Spring Court in order to fulfill a treaty with the Fae. Over time, their feelings for their new lord change from hatred to something like love. Meanwhile, a blight in the fairie lands puts everyone's lives in danger. Will they accept their feelings for their fae lord, saving the Spring Court in the process, or will they return to the human lands and live out their lives in luxury?   Find and follow our Insta: @canddpod Our intro and outro music is "Take it Slow" by Jay Man: https://www.our-music-box.com/

Shelley and Rachel are swept up in a treasure hunt that takes them from New York to Madagascar. Will they find love and diamonds in the jungle, or danger and death?   Follow our Insta: @canddpod Our intro and outro music is "Take it Slow" by Jay Man https://www.our-music-box.com

Continuing from last week's theme of "advanced mutants walk amongst us", we're looking at an entirely different take on a similar premise, one that's entirely more sympathetic to the supposedly non-human subjects. In Wilmar Shiras' "Children of the Atom", the super-intelligent kids are more benign...mostly. Though the perils of raising kids who might someday conquer the world comes with its own pitfalls. Is the answer psychology and superior educational practices? The future will tell... Support us on Patreon and listen to the show a week early! Engineer/Producer: Alex Ross Additional Music: "Sacred Church Organ" by Jay Man, Our Music Box Theme song by Jack Feerick (c) 2024 Adam Prosser and Philip Rice. Music (c) its respective creators. Used under a Creative Commons Non-Commercial Attribution 3.0 International License. Adam's Patreon Philip's Patreon What Mad Universe?!? on Bluesky What Mad Universe?!? on Twitter Philip's Bluesky Philip's Twitter Adam's Bluesky Adam's Twitter What Mad Universe on Facebook What Mad Universe on Instagram What Mad Universe RSS Feed

Jayman & Hylander wanna know. =) 

On this episode, my guests are and of the Podcast.Clementine Morrigan is a writer and public intellectual based in Montréal, Canada. She writes popular and controversial essays about culture, politics, ethics, relationships, sexuality, and trauma. A passionate believer in independent media, she's been making zines since the year 2000 and is the author of several books. She's known for her iconic white-text-on-a-black-background mini-essays on Instagram. One of the leading voices on the Canadian Left and one half of the F*****g Cancelled podcast, Clementine is an outspoken critic of cancel culture and a proponent of building solidarity across difference. She is a socialist, a feminist, and a vegan for the animals and the earth.Jay is a writer, artist and designer from Montreal and is the author of the Substack jaylesoleil.com and the zine series What Else Is There to Live For. Jay is also the co-host of F*****g Cancelled.Show Notes:Clementine & Jay's TravelsThe NexusIdentitarianism and Identity PoliticsGentrification & SolidarityHow Nationalism Leaks into the LeftThe Contradictions of IdentitarianismFreedom, Limits and GuesthoodBorders and BiomesThe Quest for Offline CommunitiesRadical & Reciprocal HospitalityAuthenticityHomework:Clementine's SubstackJay's Substack (including Dumplings & Domination)Clementine's ShopJay's StoreF*****g Cancelled ShopF*****g Cancelled PodcastTranscriptChris: [00:00:00] Welcome to the pod, Clementine and Jay. It's an honor to have you both here today. Each of your work both individually and together has been a great influence on mine and definitely eye-opening and if I can say so much needed in our time. So thank you for joining me. Jay: Thank you, man. Thanks for having us.Clementine: Thanks for having us.Chris: So, I'd like to start, if we can, by asking you both where you find yourselves today and what the world looks like for you through each of your eyes.Jay: Well, we both find ourselves in Montreal which is where we live. I was working in homeless shelters for years and then I got let go cause I tried to unionize the one I was working at. Actually I succeeded in unionizing the one I was working at. And they mysteriously did not have any money to renew my contract after that.And yeah, so I'm writing and I just launched a new solo podcast about like world history outside of the West. And so I've been working on that. It's called [00:01:00] dumplings and domination, which are two things that human beings love. And Yeah, so that's, that's what I'm up to. Clementine: Yeah, so I'm also, yeah, I find myself in Montreal, in the snow, and I guess, relevant to the topics of this podcast one of the things I'm grappling with now is my perpetual existence as a unilingual anglophone in the city of Montreal, which is a bilingual city, but it's a French city, like.Actually. And I'm planning on having a child and I'm planning to have this child here. And so I'm facing the dilemma of being like an English speaker whose child is not going to just be an English speaker. And so I really need to learn French, basically. So this is my struggle, because being 37 and only speaking one language my entire life, it's like super hard to learn another language.And I've really, really struggled. A couple times I've made an attempt to learn French, and it's like really [00:02:00] frustrating, but that is one of the things I'm grappling with. I feel like it's relevant to the podcast, because in many ways, even though I've lived in Montreal for like almost seven years, there's a way in which I still am kind of like a tourist here, because I haven't learned the language.So, will I complete my transition into becoming Quebecois? Chris: Yeah, maybe so. Jay: Only time will tell. Chris: I was just reading this biography of Ivan Illich, who's like was an Austrian philosopher and he said that like trying to learn a new language, especially if you're immersed in the place is the greatest measure or degree of poverty that one can undertake because of the degree of dependence that they have on other people and not just dependence, but like dependence on their hospitality, assuming it exists in order to, you know, be able to understand what you're saying and communicate in that way. Clementine: Like Montreal is interesting because at least in the neighborhood that I live and in many places in [00:03:00] Montreal, it's functionally bilingual. So it's not like learning in an immersive environment as if you went somewhere and everybody's speaking that language.So you kind of just have to or you won't be able to communicate. Like you have to learn here. You know, when I'm fumbling around trying to speak French, people just start speaking English to me because even if they're a francophone, like, at least in the neighborhoods where I live, most people are bilingual, and they speak better English than I do French, so they will accommodate me, which is polite of them, and also, It does not help me learn, you know?Jay: Whereas the government of Quebec will not accommodate you. Clementine: No, the government will not accommodate you at all. And so, like, it's only in circumstances where, like, I desperately need to understand where, like, there's no, there's absolutely no accommodation. So. Chris: And that kind of touches on my next question, which is, you know, in terms of the travels that you two have.Has there been that degree of poverty elsewhere? I mean, I imagine you might have traveled to other places maybe in Canada, maybe elsewhere. [00:04:00] What have your travels taught you each, if anything, about the world, about your lives, about culture? Jay: Yeah. I had kind of an unusual relationship with travel.Because as a kid, I moved to a different country every like three or four years cause of my parents work. And so, yeah, I grew up like in Asia and not just like dipping into a place and then like leaving right away but spending years of my life in each country. Right. And like learning the languages and stuff.And so, yeah, I think that was a quite an unusual way to kind of experience travel as a kid. And I think that it did definitely have a lot of impact on me. Because I think that travel in general, I think is a wonderful and amazing thing, you know, which is why people like to do it. And it can be really profound for your mind and your understanding of the world and of other people, you know but obviously there's travel and then there's [00:05:00] travel.I feel really grateful that I was able to see so much of the world by living there, you know and I think that it was really important for me in my kind of embodied understanding that other people and other parts of the world are, you know, just as real and just as important and just as embedded in history as I am and as like the people are in my passport country, which happens to be Canada, you know?Clementine: Yeah. I've traveled a little bit, but I think for me, like, When I was young, I was too crazy to travel, you know, and I truly mean that, like I have complex PTSD and like as much as my life was so chaotic and like really, like, you know, on F*****g Cancelled, Jay and I talk about how we're both alcoholics in recovery, like, When I was drinking, I always wanted to be someone who traveled, and my life was very, like, chaotic and full of violence and danger and all those types of things, but the PTSD made it really hard to do [00:06:00] anything because I was always scared, you know and being a woman traveling... like, in recovery, I've wanted to try to travel more, but the combination of one being a woman traveling alone, it does come with certain risks to it.You're more vulnerable in certain ways and then add that to the PTSD. It's like... it's super anxiety producing, you know, so it's something that I've done a little bit but not as much as I would have liked to and I guess we'll see like what the future holds with that. One thing is is that like I learned to drive pretty late.I learned to drive in my 30s and once I learned to drive going on road trips was actually a way that really opened up travel for me because having my car with me gave me this sense of like safety, basically, that I could leave a situation like I was there with my car. So I had like the independence to like not be dependent on like strangers because I was afraid of them basically.But we went on a podcast tour last [00:07:00] year and drove like all across the United States in like a month and like drove down to like Arizona and like back up the West coast. And like, that was really, really cool. Chris: Beautiful. Thank you both. And so, you know, it might seem a little strange for you two to be invited on a podcast about tourism, migration, hospitality given that, you know, perhaps on the surface of things, your work doesn't appear to center around such things, but I've asked you both to speak with me today, in part, because I see a lot of parallels between what you've both referred to as the nexus in your work and what I refer to as the, a touristic worldview. And so to start, I'm wondering if you two could explain for our listeners, what the nexus is and its three main pillars.Clementine: So, in shorthand, or in, like, common language, you might call it social justice culture. There's a lot of different ways that this culture has been talked about but it's a particular [00:08:00] way of doing politics on the left, or left of center. And. Like, Jay and I come from inside this culture, so we are coming from inside social justice culture, being, like, leftists and being queer people and having existed in, like, progressive social justicey spaces for our entire adult lives, basically.And basically, we're noticing that there wasn't really language to talk about some of the phenomenons that were happening inside social justice culture or even, you know, social justice culture itself doesn't really give itself a name. Like we can call it social justice culture or we could call it something else, but it doesn't really have a name that it like claims for itself.It basically describes itself as like just doing politics or like being morally correct, you know, right? Yeah, being right. So we just started using the nexus as kind of like a placeholder for talking about a phenomenon that like doesn't really have a name. And we were trying to describe like this social phenomenon that we were totally [00:09:00] immersed in that there wasn't really language to describe. And we pulled out like three components that we saw interacting with each other to produce this phenomenon that we were calling the Nexus. And those pillars or components would be cancel culture, social media, and identitarianism. So, you maybe want to say more. Jay: Yeah, and we were just noticing how like when those three components were interacting on the left, you know they were producing a kind of like fourth thing that we were calling the Nexus and it's just like cancel culture was kind of this, you know, this culture of disposability and very sort of like intense acrimony functioned to sort of like boundary the whole thing and to keep, you know, certain views out and keep certain views in and sort of like establish the boundaries of what was thinkable or not.And the identitarianism provided the sort of ideological underpinning of the whole thing, like a way of making sense of the world, a [00:10:00] way of thinking about any problem and any issue, you know? And then social media was kind of the medium in which it was all taking place. And that was providing a lot of the kind of like the scaffolding of what it ended up looking like.Yeah. Does that make sense? Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you both. And so I like to start then if I can with with identitarianism and you know as it pertains to, I guess, the end of tourism podcast and the way I've come to understand it is that to be a tourist isn't just to be a foreigner, but a stranger to the place one inhabits.And so in this sense, I feel that people can be tourists in their own homes and to a large degree the housing crisis, among many others seems to enable and ennoble this, you know, people know that they won't be able to afford a rent increase. And so they don't bother getting to know their neighbors or participating in the community.And beyond that community is often described in demographic terms, you know, the black community, the queer community, et cetera. But rarely [00:11:00] anymore in terms of the diverse people that you actually live beside or near. And so, for me, this is where tourism not only hits home, but is kind of unveiled as maybe beginning at home.You know, it's not just an industry, but something akin to a lifestyle or culture, as you said, Jay, of disposability. And so in this context, what I understand is identitarianism seems to enable this kind of touristic mentality of not needing to think of myself as a person of consequence in my building or in my neighborhood because I'll be out of here in another year or two anyway, right?And so I'm curious what you think of this idea and whether you think that identitarianism is a consequence of these crises that exist today, like the housing crisis, like landlordism, for example. Jay: Yeah, I definitely think it's all connected.And I think that I think that a huge part of all of this, right, is accelerating alienation that people are experiencing under the [00:12:00] dominant form of neoliberal capitalism. And alienation just describes this deep embodied sense of disconnection from oneself, from one's work and from one's fellows.And this is a concept that goes all the way back to Marx and before him even, you know, but Marx, I think correctly identified that capitalism had a mechanism within it that amplified this, this sense and created more of it. And I think that as we hurdle down the path of neoliberal apocalypse, we're sort of like more and more exposed to the sense of alienation.And so what does that mean? It means that we end up feeling like we don't know who we are. We don't know where we are. We don't know who the people around us are. We're just sort of floating, we're atomized, you know. We don't have roots or the connections that we do have feel fleeting and shallow.You know, and it produces obviously a deep sense of like misery in a lot of people, [00:13:00] whether they know it or not, I would say. But it also produces a longing for connections that feel real and that feel authentic. And I think that the turn towards identitarianism that has become more and more apparent over the last like decade or so both on the left and the right because I think that the rise of like the alt right, for example, was very much an identitarian movement as well. Yeah, it's that, that pivot towards identitarianism is a consequence of people feeling like they have no connections and they really want connections. They want to feel embedded in something, you know and so they're looking for other forms of community that they can belong to other than the communities that they actually live in, you know, because those communities that they actually live in have started to feel so disconnected and illusory, right?I do have more to say about the concept of like authenticity and all of this, which I think is like really foundational to tourism. But I will pass the mic. Well, I feel like we're probably going to get [00:14:00] into it later. Clementine: Okay. Well, yeah. So I mean, I think when talking about identitarianism, it's useful to make the distinction between identitarianism and identity politics.And we make that distinction on the podcast, but in case listeners aren't really familiar with the term identitarianism, I think it's useful for us to be a little bit clear about what we mean. And basically, identitarianism is distinct from identity politics. So, identity politics is just basically saying that identity matters when we're thinking about what is affecting people's lives, right?And when we're organizing politics, when we're trying to think of solutions where we can make the world better, identity is going to play a role. And that just means we're acknowledging that things like racism exists, homophobia exists, like, sexism exists, that the ways that our lives are shaped are impacted by identity.And like, we agree with that, we're not against that, as a framework. But identitarianism takes identity politics to a new place, where it basically does two main things to it. One, it [00:15:00] acts as if identity groups are homogenous, or share, like, very intense essential qualities, you know? So, when you make a statement, like, the BIPOC community thinks this.You're being identitarian and you're also being essentialist because you're actually making a statement in which you're saying that billions of people share a view, which is incorrect and also, like, very disrespectful to the vast diversity of thought that exists within any identity group, right? So it's actually like, it's an expression of essentialism and this belief that, like identity groups share essential qualities.And it erases, like, the vast political differences and personal differences that don't exist always within any identity group. And then secondly, Identitarianism acts as if identity is the primary or only way that power functions. So when we're trying to understand, like, what is wrong with the world, and what is going on, and why are we all suffering?Identitarianism [00:16:00] encourages us to look first, and maybe only, at identity as the way in which power is divided and organized. And so, in this way, you know, we have people, like basically collecting identity points. And what I mean by that is, like, adding up their various identities to try to understand their lives and their access to power.So people will be like, okay, I have these identities that are considered marginalized identities, and then I have these identities that are considered privileged identities. And so if I do some math, I'll be able to figure out where I stand in terms of power, right? And this is a total oversimplification of the way that power works.Identity is probably impacting your life in various ways. and may have a role in like your access to power, but it is not the only thing, and it's not as simple as just adding and subtracting to try to figure this out, and many, many things are lost when we are only using identity as the way to understand power, and so like when you're talking about, I just want to say that like that what you said [00:17:00] about people moving, I think is really fascinating because I moved like every year or two years.My entire, like actually I kind of haven't stopped because I've only lived where I currently live for like just about two years. So, I've basically been doing that since I was 16. I'm 37. Wow. Chris: Wow. Wow. Clementine: You know, and like, I don't mean cities, but I mean neighborhoods and at least apartments, you know, and actually my current neighborhood I've lived in probably the longest that I've ever lived anywhere but I've still moved several times and I've managed to stay in the same neighborhood, but like over the course of my teenage years, all my entire twenties and into my thirties, like, I was just constantly moving.And, you know, I, I had a sense of place in terms of the city I lived in. Like, I was living in Toronto for most of for my twenties. But I lived all over that f*****g city. Like, all over that city. You know, I didn't live in any particular neighborhood. And so because of that, like, I didn't really have that sense of like place and like there wasn't really a point in knowing my neighbors because it's true. I was going to [00:18:00] be moving and I knew that and so that is like a material reality that is being structured by capitalism and by landlords and rent and not having enough money and not having housing security.And identitarianism isn't really helping me to understand that, right? Like I can't really make sense of that experience if my only lens that I'm looking at the situation with is identity. And that's just like one example, but there's many, many things that, identity as if it's our only frame is not going to help us to understand.Jay: Or like it, it might help you feel like you understand it, but it's probably not going to give you a very good explanation, you know clear picture. Yeah, it's like there's this word that I stumbled across recently. I think it's like "monocausotaxophilia" I'm pretty sure is what it is and it's like the it's like the obsessive belief that like one there's like one answer for everything or like one thing can help you explain everything and it's it's like a common like logical fallacy that humans fall into, where like we just we discover something that really seems like it's right and then we're [00:19:00] like this can explain everything we can just apply this to everything, you know, and I think that identitarianism is like a an excellent example of this tendency that humans have Chris: Yeah.Wow. Kind of monotheism for politics, I guess. It's fascinating for me because I see a lot of these identitarianist dynamics play out in the context of tourist cities and the one that I lived in, still live around, just not in anymore.And then of course the people that I interview who deal with over tourism and of course all the crises that come with it. And so You know, like in the early pandemic, for example, in places like Oaxaca or Medellin in Colombia, for example, they suddenly became hotspots for digital nomads and other tourist escapees.And the consequences of over tourism in these places already existed, but once travel restrictions had [00:20:00] dropped and vaccines were doled out, places like this, and maybe the more obvious ones like Bali or Hawaii or Barcelona those consequences exploded and, you know, the number of visitors skyrocketed. And so both local people and foreigners opened Airbnb after Airbnb, and this is kind of what ended up happening in a lot of places in the, in the course of, you know, a couple of years essentially deepening the economic and social divisions in those places. And so what we've seen is that people simply tend to point their finger at the tourists, at the foreigner, ignoring the economic and political issues that affect these things.And so, what's arisen on the internet at least have been faceless social media accounts basically cancelling tourists or foreigners for you know anything you can think of for being cheap, people complaining about prices on their YouTube video or whatever, and others criticizing local cultures for X Y Z Zed pardon me and some Some who [00:21:00] refuse to, like, to speak the local language, for example, all of which, you know, constitutes bad behavior.And even still, like, other people, foreigners who become landlords in their new homes, right, who move to another country and just, you know, rent a nice place and then put it on Airbnb or something. And so, I'm curious about the individual? And why do you think, in so many of these cases, especially in regards to people who claim to be leftists or anarchists or radicals, that the focus is squarely put on individuals or individual behavior as opposed to the conditions or systems that created that behavior?Jay: Oh yeah, I mean, we've become like ludicrously unable to actually look at structural causes of anything in a way that allows us to formulate policy and work towards policy. Like, I think that like one of the major like failings of the left currently is that it is, especially in like the Anglo world, like completely f*****g unmoored from policy.I think in the US there's like a really [00:22:00] obvious reason for that, which is that there is, you know, no political party that's even remotely. So the idea that you could, that you could have policy that you like is sort of like nonsense to people in the first place. Right.So everything then becomes about either it would become either about individual behavior or about some sort of like more radical revolutionary option, you know but the radical revolutionary option doesn't exist. So it's all about the individual behavior. And a comparable situation is going on elsewhere in the Anglosphere as well where the sort of like political avenues for policymaking are severely lacking.So I think that there's this like strong, strong emphasis on the individual, on individual behavior, on moralizing on sort of angrily saying what should be true rather than working with like, you know, like reality. Yeah. Clementine: Yeah, I think that people, like, we haven't seen an effective left in our lifetime, like, you know, like we haven't seen the left making gains, like, for [00:23:00] millennials, like basically for our entire lives, you know?We haven't seen movements be successful, and so we feel very powerless. Like, there's a deep, deep sense of powerlessness in the face of capitalism and in the face of climate change and in the face of so many of the horrible conditions that we're living under, and we don't have a lot of evidence of things working, but we know we have the power to take down some individual person and publicly humiliate them and destroy their life.And so I think people get very addicted to that sense of power because it is like a balm to the abject helplessness that we feel under capitalism where we don't have a lot of power to really make the changes that we want to make, you know, but one of the things we're always talking about on the podcast is how cancel culture, while it provides this like temporary relief and this feeling like we're doing something like we have power.In fact, it erodes the very conditions that would allow us to have real power and the conditions that would allow us to have real power are solidarity. Right. Like, the one thing that the working class of the world [00:24:00] has that the capitalists don't is our numbers, right?Like, they have all the money and the use of force, you know? But we, there's just lots of us, and also we are the ones who make all their s**t. Like, or like, run their little online companies or whatever it is that they're doing now. Yeah, exactly. So, it's like literally the workers of the world are the ones who actually make capitalism run and there are no profits if the workers of the world organized and f*****g withdrew their labor, right? But currently, we don't have any conditions of like an organized working class movement that could actually threaten to do something like that. And so, there's no real avenue. Like unions have been like totally f*****g eroded there's no solidarity.There's no, like Workers movement that is being effective. I mean there are attempts at it like there was I don't know what happened with it because I'm off social media now, and I haven't been checking the news, but there was a gigantic like uprising of Bangladeshi textile workers who were like going on strike and like the police were trying to totally shut them down.I don't know what ended up happening kind of disappeared off my radar, but I think any movement for solidarity, you [00:25:00] know, cancel culture b******t aside, because honestly, it is such a distraction. Like it's annoying and it's a distraction would have to move towards like international solidarity.And I think that this is something that... we don't even have, like, solidarity, like, where we live, let alone solidarity, like, across the globe with workers in different places, you know? But under global capitalism, I think we're going to have to start looking with an internationalist lens and thinking about what would it look like to have the workers of the world actually uniting.Jay: Yeah. It reminds me of gentrification, you know? It's like, individual gentrifiers are sure like annoying, right? You know, people who sort of like don't belong there and are bringing their like annoying habits into the neighborhood or whatever, you know, and driving up prices and all this.But at the end of the day, this is like a structural issue that can only be solved by policy, right? You can't, you can't just sort of like be hostile towards gentrifiers and expect that to sort of like end up with anything other than you being angry and other people perhaps being frightened for like a couple of years until the [00:26:00] process of gentrification is complete.And I think that you know, there's like a similar thing with tourism, you know, I mean, tourism is just kind of like gentrification on like a, an international scale in a certain sense. Yeah. Chris: Yeah. Yeah. I mean here in Oaxaca, tourism is like 85 90 percent of the economy in the center of the city. And so it's all changing really quickly, wherein, people are sometimes hearing more English than Spanish in the streets, right? Not just in Oaxaca, but in other places as well. So there's this relative and understandable kind of resentment against the foreigner, but then when we have these gatherings and, you know, people ask me, well, like, "what should we do?" And I say, "well, go talk to the tourist, like, you can build solidarity with that person, even if it's by them understanding what's going on here, and maybe not coming back. As an extreme example, right. But what's also happened as a result, not just this waving or wagging the finger at the individual, but also in the context of identitarianism, reconvening the nation state.[00:27:00] And so my next question.. It kind of feeds off of the first and has to do with the effects or consequences of this kind of pseudo cancel culture that arises from tourism crises in places like Oaxaca and others. And so what you tend to see are locals identifying tourists or foreigners based on skin color.In Latin America, you know, the tourist is by and large the gringo, or the gringa, basically a white American. And what's happening as a result, especially among people who consider themselves, again, leftist or anarchist, is that they end up self identifying in opposition to the foreigner. And so what we see is an over identification, or what I will call anyways an over identification, with one's own skin color, class, and especially, especially now, nationality.And so, understanding the other as American means I'm Mexican or Colombian, or whatever, right? And I'm curious whether or not either of you consider [00:28:00] identitarianism to be a child of nationalism or how nationalism fits into these contemporary understandings of identitarianism.Jay: Right, right. Well, okay, I definitely have some thoughts about that for sure. I would say that like, nationalism is certainly one of the kind of original modern identities, right?And it was very much like crafted on purpose to be that, which I think that a lot of people don't know, unless they've like, you know, done like a sociology degree or something, but nationalism and the nation itself was like a modern invention created a couple of hundred years ago for specific political purposes, namely to unite quite disparate populations within at that time, mainly like European countries and to try to get the children of those people to think of themselves as like French instead of Breton, you know and to get them to speak French instead of Breton, right? As an example. And there is similar cases all over Europe. Anyways, that being aside, yes, like [00:29:00] nationalism certainly is like a form of identity and one of the most important forms of modern identity. I think that when we talk about identitarianism, often we end up not talking about nationalism very much because on the left, nationalism tends to be sort of like not the most important identity.It's one that you kind of downplay, especially if your nationality is one of the privileged Western rich nationalities, right? However, obviously if your nationality might you know get you points in, in whatever sort of like game you're playing, then you might, you might play it up.Clementine: Yeah, I have a couple things to say about this. I mean, one, the nexus or social justice culture, that we talk about on F*****g Cancelled, comes out of the United States of America. And the United States of America, they don't know that they're in the United States of America. So, Jay: This might be surprising to people because of the number of flags that are everywhere in America, but they don't know that they're in america.Clementine: They think they're just in the world. They think that that is the world, you know? And so, [00:30:00] there is this like, this lack of awareness or like basically they're not contextualizing what they're thinking and doing in an American context, even though it is, and then they're exporting that to the rest of the world, especially like English speaking places.But then it like leaks out from there. But it is an American way of understanding things based in an American context and an American history, right? And so you see this a lot with identitarianism where the popular framings and understandings around race, for example, that are going around social justice culture right now are specifically coming out of an American context and American constructions around race, and they don't map on perfectly to other contexts, but because it's being exported, because Americans are exporting their culture all over the world, we, in other places, are expected to just take it on and to start using that framework. And people do, but it doesn't really work properly. It doesn't really make sense in a different context. So that is a way in which like nation kind of disappears even though it is operating [00:31:00] in the way that identity is actually being shaped. Another thing that happens, and Jay and I were just talking about this for an upcoming episode. Another thing that happens is that because in North America anyway, like we don't really use nation as a category in identitarian thought, what ends up happening is that people actually racialize their national identity in a weird way to make it make sense in identitarianism. And so one of the ways that this can happen is that people from South America who are white, in a Northern American context, are sometimes racialized and considered people of color because they are not speaking like English as a first language, for example, or because there's cultural markers that are showing them as not North American, and so therefore they are impacted by various types of discrimination and so on and so forth, but in their context, they are actually racialized as white, but then in North [00:32:00] America, they may be racialized as non-white. And so this actually comes through like a I mean, first of all, it shows that race is like a made up category that can shift and be expressed in different ways.But also it is partially like the narcissism of North America that can't conceptualize difference, basically, and understand that, like, a person can actually be white and from South America and speak Spanish, for example. Jay: Which, like, this can also sometimes, we were joking about this, too, because it's true, like, this can also sometimes extend to people not being sure about, for example, like Portuguese people, and sort of like racializing Portuguese people on the basis of their sort of supposed affinity with like Latin America.⌘ Chris Christou ⌘ is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know, one thing that I want to mention too, you're just reminding me of this because of my research that you, that you mentioned is that like racialism, which is the idea that race is important and, and as a major identity category that people should care about a lot, let's put it that way, has often existed very [00:33:00] uneasily with nationalism.And so for a lot of like neo Nazis, they're not necessarily like opposed to nationalism, but they would, they would treat racial affinity with much more importance than they would a national affinity, especially when the national affinity is seen to have been kind of polluted by like foreign elements, for example, you know, and a big part of the national project has been to say that, like, we are all members of this national identity, sort of like, no matter who we are, blah, blah, blah. Right. And obviously some of us are more than others, right, is usually is how it's gone, but it tries to integrate like many different groups of people, including, you know, in the United States, for example, including like black Americans.Right. And, you know, the project of the integrated military, for example, has been a big part of the American national imaginary but if you're a white racist, you're not interested in a sort of national identity that, that includes black Americans as [00:34:00] well.Right. And this is also somewhat true on the left in different ways. But yeah, I'll just put that out there. Yeah. And then I guess the only other last thing I would like to say about this is that when we are anti essentialist and anti identitarian on the left, one of the things that, that like an anti racism that is rooted in an opposition to essentialism will argue and put forth is that race is a constructed and made up concept, right, which is something that I believe: race is not a real thing.It is like racism is real, but racism is based on the invention of this way of dividing up people based on race. And so there's a lot of anti essentialist leftists who are arguing this, but one thing that is important is to not confuse race, which is a made up category, with culture and ethnicity, which are real things, right?And one of the things, like, Jay and I have been talking about, and we're going to do an episode about this, or, like, related to these ideas, is, like, we actually care a lot about things, like, language protection, [00:35:00] culture protection, like the importance of people being able to keep and protect their cultural identities is like, it's a very important thing in respecting people's like human dignity.And in Canada, where colonialism has so thoroughly attacked indigenous Canadian people's cultures. They don't have their languages anymore. And like, Protecting language is, like, hugely important for people's mental health and well being, right? So, dividing those two things, that being, like saying race isn't real doesn't mean that we're not in favor of protecting culture and language.Yeah. Chris: Right, right, right. Of course. What's interesting about the, I guess, the reactions to overtourism here, it's not just that, Oh, the gringo is an American, so I'm a Mexican, but it's also racialized. It's also, okay. So who I see on the street, white people, and because I'm dark skinned, it reinforces those dualities, binaries, et cetera but it re-racializes local people, and in the context of Mexico [00:36:00] anyways the roots of their understandings of their racializedness, if I can say that comes from the imposition of race, of races, by the Spaniards, onto them, and saying this is who you are now, 400 years ago.Right? And so the new invasion, the tourism, right, is recapitulating that dynamic in ways in which people internalize the racial impositions that were put on them 400 years ago. Or their ancestors, right, I should say. So it's just mind boggling.Clementine: Yeah, I think, I think it's interesting though, right? Because how do we hold, like, the importance of culture and language and ethnicity while also acknowledging that those things were always shifting, changing, like, were never a static, constant thing, you know?That always included diversity, and within it, language is always changing and evolving. Culture is always changing and evolving, but also those things are real things that you can speak about and point to, and definitely notice when they'restolen from you or when you're no longer allowed to speak your language.Right. So yeah, like, I think we tend to go [00:37:00] to extremes. It's either like it doesn't exist or it's not important, or it's like a very essential, like static thing that has always only been one thing. Chris: Yeah, and also for a lack of history, right? I've been doing this investigation into Macedonian culture, ethnicity, history, etc, in part because my father is a first generation immigrant to Toronto, but from Agaean Macedonia and, you know, the Ottoman Empire was there controlling those lands for four or 500 years.And so the Ottomans were Muslim and the Macedonians weren't Macedonians to them, they were Christians. They were a Christian race, Mm-Hmm regardless of their language. And then when the Ottoman Empire fell, the Greeks and the Bulgarians ended up fighting over that territory, that land, that a lot of people considered to be Macedonian.And so the Greeks and the Bulgarians referred [00:38:00] to the Macedonians as the Macedonian race, no longer the Christian race, but the Macedonian race. So anyways, beyond that, once you get into the 20th century and start speaking in a global context, it's like, no, no, no, they're not the Macedonian race, they're a white race from Macedonia.And so, just this idea that race is inherently tied to skin color is very contemporary and it depends, of course, where it's coming from and who it's coming from, right? This idea of what race is becomes very fluid. I wanted to ask you two about escapism. I was just listening to your episode on freedom as a principle. Mm hmm. One of your most recent episodes and in it, you two speak of carceral institutions, jails, obviously, and I don't think it's very difficult to imagine how a touristic worldview, one built around escapism arises so fervently among people who feel powerless [00:39:00] to change the conditions in the culture that are oppressive and domineering.At the same time the glorification and commodification of that escapism through tourism creates a kind of a culture of abandonment and disposability, in the sense that you're leaving behind all your people and then once you get to this place, well, you're actually not responsible for anything you do there because it's not my, it's not my people, not my home.And so I'm curious, do you think that the freedom, that is usually couched in the freedom of movement has limits? And what do you make of the the inability to stay still in the context of all this?Jay: Man. Yeah, I mean it just makes me think about my own sort of like internal struggles that I have where like, basically like whenever I'm not doing very well, I have this part of me that wants nothing more than to just f**k off and travel sort of like indefinitely. It's like one of my strongest like internal urges, you know.I [00:40:00] don't know. I just keep thinking about that. But yeah, I mean, another thing that comes to mind for me, that is not, not a direct answer to your question, but it's just something that's coming up for me is that like, I think for like so many people in the wealthy West, you know they live in places that are comfortable because they're in the wealthy West, but they're like psychologically so destructive because it's just like these like vistas of like parking lots and like box stores and like depressing nothing places that no one could ever love and I think that like for a lot of people, and I hate to say this because it sounds like snobbish, you know, but it's like, whether or not they know it they are being psychologically attacked by the f*****g places that they live, you know, and there's a part of them that is like, I want nothing more than to get out of here, you know, and see something beautiful, and my question is sort of like, why can't we live in beautiful places? You know, and, and I actually like do live in a beautiful place and I love where I live, you know, [00:41:00] and the neighborhood in Montreal where I live is like gorgeous, you know it's a beautiful place to just walk around and look at stuff.It's very f*****g pretty. And there's a reason why I live here, you know, and I lived in other parts of the city and, and I gave up. You know, bigger, cheaper apartments to live here because I like how it looks and I like how it makes me feel to sort of like leave my house and f*****g walk around. And other people like it too.Millions of people come to Montreal as tourists. We actually have tourists in this neighborhood. And, and like when I leave my house and like walk around the corner, there's like lineups of tourists, you know that I have to sort of like navigate to like get to the gym.Because they're flocking around because it's f*****g nice here. But like a lot of places in North America are really not nice. They're not nice places to look at. They're not nice places to live. You can't f*****g walk anywhere, even if you wanted to you know, everything basically looks the same as everything else, you know?And yeah, it's not surprising to me that people would want to get out of there. Right. Also though, as I say this, it's not just North America that people [00:42:00] come from when they're tourists, right. Right. We're seeing like a gigantic increase in tourism from countries like China. Japan has always produced a lot of tourists, you know? So I think like part of it is just that like, as people get wealthier the desire to just see different things and whatever is always present in people and if they can do it, like there's no particular reason why they wouldn't but I think that it's, it's definitely worth trying to imagine what travel could look like and what like guesthood could look like, you know outside of a context where it's all just like this very commodified process that is not necessarily very great for the people who are on the kind of like hosting end of it.But yeah, again, like I live in a heavily touristed city, but apart from the tourists being quite annoying to have to walk around, like when there's like snow everywhere and they're taking up the whole sidewalk apart from that, and the fact that like Airbnb is a big problem in Montreal they don't bother me much here and I think that like a big part of that is just the, like, you know, Montreal is a very wealthy city, you know, so like an influx of like wealthy [00:43:00] foreigners doesn't like impact it that much other than to sort of like inject cash into the economy, which is not such a bad thing, right? And I do think that like part of the answer to all this is that we need to be like taking seriously internationalist solidarity and like the development of places that are not as developed.And it reminds me of like sort of debates about immigration to the West, you know, and it's like immigration, is a complicated topic and people have lots of different opinions about it, but like a lot of people on the liberal left will, will, will act like immigration is all by itself, like an amazing, awesome thing, always. And then people on the right will act like it's this terrible thing always. And I'm like, I don't know, it's kind of a neutral thing, you know, like there are good and bad things about it. Obviously people being able to travel is like a nice thing. I'll just say this, like, I think that like immigration is a good thing when the places that people are coming from are not so undeveloped or so poor that it's like forcing people out. Right. You know what I mean? And yeah, I dunno, , that was, that was like five [00:44:00] different tensions, so That's great. Chris: Love it. Clementine: So what, what is coming up for me is I saw this drawing that was like of whales swimming in the ocean.And it was like, basically saying something like, borders aren't real, because like, there's no borders in the ocean for whales or whatever. And this is part of this, like, thing on the left, and it's kind of related to what Jay was just saying, that, like, on the left, we do have this, this big like, belief in things like open borders or just free movement, free travel as, like, this positive and, kind of obviously good thing that we should support and I understand it, but at the same time, the fantasy that there aren't different areas in the natural world is false.There might not be borders, but there are biomes. And one of the things about travel that I don't think gets talked about a lot, and that is a big issue with, like, environmental destruction, is actually the reality of biomes and the fact that the movement of people across the world at the rapid way that we do it now [00:45:00] is moving plants, microbes, fungus from biome to biome and in different biomes the way that evolution works is that, like, those ecosystems were totally separate for all of this time, and then when some new, plant, animal, microbe, fungus gets into this new ecosystem, it may be that the other beings that live there have no defense against it, right? And then it causes massive problems, such as what goes on with invasive species.But like, just as a random example, like one of the major things that's causing extinction of bats is the introduction of this fungus into North America that comes from Europe or something and it comes on like tourists. They come and they don't know that they have it on them because it's just like little fungus and then they go and they visit bat caves and then they accidentally infect the bats and the bats are all getting sick and dying, you know, and so I just bring up this random example because the question of like what does it mean to be responsible when we go somewhere [00:46:00] when Even us just going there can cause problems that we didn't intend, you know?And it is a really complicated question. I'm not saying I necessarily have the answer. But especially from an environmental perspective, even if we get climate change under control, even if we deal with, you know fossil fuels, which we're not even close to dealing with, but even if we deal with that, we would still have this big question of, if we are going to continue to travel, say we get rid of planes, and then we have like airships and we're able to fly in a way that's not killing the climate, we still have this big question about what it means when we're bringing things on our clothes by accident.And I'm kind of like, instead of like security at airports, like I wonder if there could be like these places where we go in and we basically have to like leave our things. And like, when we arrive, we get like a special clothes that we wear. I don't know what it would look like because we're carrying fungus on our clothes.Jay: So. It would be really interesting to think about borders in a better world, you know and what that might look like, because I can imagine something like where it's like a supra national kind of like agreement between [00:47:00] different countries and stuff. And like the border is the border of the biome, not the border between the countries, you know?Clementine: Yeah, and I was just talking about it on like an environmental level, which I do think is very important and doesn't really get talked about enough. But I also think we can look at this on a human level where, you know, if we're thinking about like invasive species and like a plant coming in and just growing and taking over, we can also think about how when we bring.You know, for example, English, we can think about English as an invasive species, you know, like English is a species that's going to go there and because it's the language that if people speak more than one language, one of the languages that they speak might be English because it's kind of like taken over the world, then it means more and more people are going to be speaking English and then other languages are going to start dying out.And so this is like literally what an invasive plant species does, you know? And so I think, We need to think about that when we're bringing English into a space. Like, what are we doing in that space? How are we changing that space by bringing English into it? And I say that very self consciously as a unilingual English speaker, but [00:48:00] it is, you know, like.So, like, this idea of what it means to be a responsible guest, what it means to be somewhere, to visit somewhere, we need to think about, not even just the more obvious things, like throwing our garbage around, or being totally disrespectful, or using a place as a party spot, and then leaving, like, all of those things, I think, are very obviously disrespectful, and we need to be more considerate, but there's even more subtle ways, where just our very presence and the way that we bring ourselves can have an impact that we don't intend. That I think is part of the conversation about what it can mean to, to travel in a more ethical and responsible way. Chris: Amen. Amen. Yeah, I'm reminded of, and I don't know how relevant it is for the conversation, but I'm reminded of Terrence McKenna, the great psychedelic bard. He had a hypothesis that the main vehicle of evolutionary change or growth wasn't human beings or mammals, for example, but language.And we were just vehicles for language's evolution and spreading. And that languages are just fighting this secret battle, this secret [00:49:00] war. But, anyways. To speak to what both of you are saying, I interviewed, a man named Daniel Pardo in the first season of the pod, this activist from Barcelona, and he said, you know, "in no way can tourism be sustainable because we can't extend it to everyone on the planet. Like, it's actually impossible to ensure that seven or eight billion people can go on vacation once a year or fly. Right? He said, "there's no right to fly." And, so it's important to ensure that people have these freedoms, but then to what extent can they actually be applied? And I remember being back in Toronto last summer for a few months, and there were whole families and communities of migrants sleeping in front of churches on the street because from what I understand, the Canadian government the year previous had let in something like a million migrants and maybe half of them went to Toronto because it's the financial hub of the country. And there was [00:50:00] simply nothing for them there. There was no plan for them, by the government, there was no jobs, no social support, nothing, right?And so they ended up on the street, sleeping on the street in front of churches, en masse. In terms of the people that I knew who grew up there, and myself, we had never seen that before. And so you can create the freedom to migrate and things like that but what is at the end of that movement, right? So there are definitely these dynamics and nuances that need to be spoken of in terms of travel and the way people travel and the borders and, and biomes that affect the way we move. Yeah, and of course, I could go on and on. I have two more questions for you two, if that's alright? Sure. Okay. So on some of the f*****g canceled podcast episodes you have subtitled the theme of the quest for the offline left. And, you know, I think [00:51:00] largely emphasizing the word offline. And so, you know, what do you think being together offline and organizing offline can do to people whose lives have been shaped around online and social media mentalities?I mean, the three of us are more or less of the age that we still have a lived memory of life before the internet, but what about those who don't? Clementine: Yeah, absolutely horrifying. I mean, I think we are social animals who evolved to be together, looking at each other's faces, like, talking and being in the same space together.Like the alienation that Jay was talking about before, like both leads to our compulsive social media use and our desperate attempt to find community through that, and also completely contributes and worsens the problem, making it a million times worse where we are staring at our phones when we are literally, actually, physically together and could be having a conversation.And that is really like sad and depressing. And I [00:52:00] think that in terms of organizing across difference building solidarity with people... like on the Internet, we can believe that a community is people who share either like an interest or an identity category with us. And that is a community online whereas in real life, community is going to be full of people who are not necessarily like ourselves, who we might not share interests in common with, and we might not share identities in common with, but they actually are the people who are in our spaces in real life, and we actually share many things in common with them that we might not realize because we share a place together, we share a world together and being able to build relationships with people who are different from ourselves is, first of all absolutely necessary as a political strategy if we want to get anything done on the left.But also, it's deeply enriching for our human lives, you know, to be able to meet and talk to people who are not exactly the same, not the same age, not sharing the same politics, like, who are just different from ourselves. So I think it's very important. The other thing is like, the absolute erosion of our [00:53:00] attention span due to social media.I have recently not been on Instagram for, like, a month, and I feel like my brain is, like, damaged, and I'm, like, recovering from a severe damage to my attention span, you know? Like, I wasn't able to read books for years, because I just didn't have an attention span to, like, really keep up with it.It was, like, way harder for me than it used to be when I was younger, you know? Because I have been on the feed that is giving me just five second blips of information and then giving me something else and getting my brain hooked on this, like, dopamine response cycle, which is absolutely horrifying.So, I think it's also really bad for us, like, mentally in terms of our ability to think critically and at length and to, like, pay attention to what we're thinking about. Yeah, Jay: I think that the internet gives people the illusion that things are happening that are not actually happening You know like I don't know you make a a really good post and 2, 000 people like it Wow.Okay. They're all scattered across the f*****g planet. [00:54:00] You know what I mean? It doesn't, you don't know them. It doesn't translate into anything, right? It feels good. And you feel like maybe you're influencing the discourse or something like that, you know but it doesn't translate into anything.And it can give you It can give you the idea that like to be politically active and to be politically successful is to get more people liking your f*****g posts or whatever, you know, but it's not true, right? It also gives people the illusion and Clementine was gesturing at this that a group of people, it's not even really group, it's like a category of people that are like you, is a meaningful sort of group to be in. But let's say like, take like queer people, like LGBTQ community. Okay. And then you extrapolate that to like the whole world, or you can even just extrapolate it to like North America. You know, that's like a scattering of people that are spread out over this enormous geographic area.You couldn't possibly meet them all. Not only because there's so many of them, but also because they're so scattered, right? And you couldn't possibly organize them all and like, and so [00:55:00] on. And, and it's not a community. It's not a community. It is. It's like there's a word I'm looking for and I was, I've been trying to think of it for the past, like five minutes, but I'm just going to say it's like an electorate or something rather than like rather than like a community, you know it's like this, it's this like demographic group that like marketers might market to you or that politicians might try to get to vote for them or something like that. But that's not, that's not what a community is. That's not what a real group is like a real group automatically encompasses difference.Like a, a sort of like authentic human group, like always has differences of like age and occupation and often ethnicity and all these sorts of internal differences that, you know, human groups have always had. Right. And when we try to sort of like make these groups based on identity, which the internet makes very, very, very easy.We like miss. The people that were actually around, like, yeah, but yeah, as for the offline left, I mean, we desperately need to be organizing and in the real world, and I think that[00:56:00] that's not to say that like you can't do anything on the internet.Like the internet obviously has massive advantages for many, many reasons, you know. F**k, there's this like, there's this like image in my head. I'm a very like visual person. I get these like pictures in my head and then I'm like, I have to explain this picture. But it's like the, the thing about like the, the, the groups being this, these kind of like electorates, it's like, if you are this electorate, then you're only choice is to sort of petition your leaders to do something for you. You know what I mean? But like if you are a real and authentic community, you can organize your community to enact something in the real world, you know? And I don't want us to always be in the position of petitioning our leaders, because it presupposes the leaders, it presupposes that we accept their authority, you know, it presupposes that we don't have another option other than to allow a tiny class of parasitical, like rich people to rule everything for us, you know but I would like us to move away from that.Clementine: Yeah. Like just one other thing about that is you'll [00:57:00] see, you know, this gesturing towards actual organizing but through posting, but it's missing the actual organizing piece, which involves building relationships, right? And building trust. And so one of the things you'll, you'll see, like in the last couple of years, I've seen it a few times with different political things that are going on where people will just randomly call for like a mass strike and they'll make a post about it.And they'll be like, on this day, we are calling for people to strike for like this political issue. I saw it for like abortion rights in the United States and I recently saw it for solidarity with Palestine. But it's like, people can't just walk out of their jobs randomly because they will be fired.Like, the point of unions and the point of organized labor is that you have this guarantee where all of these people are taking this risk together in an organized and strategic way and they are trusting each other that they are doing it together and it is their numbers that makes it so that the boss can't just fire them all.And they have strike fund. There's a lot of them and they're [00:58:00] supporting each other to do this and it's organized and they've actually built enough relationship to be like, okay, I trust that my fellow workers are going to do this with me. So, like when I take this risk, it's like the risk is mitigated by the numbers and I know I'm not alone in it.Right. But a social media post cannot produce that. It is not relationship. And so random people reading that, like they're like, "should I just walk out of my job tomorrow?" Like, probably if they do that, they're going to be the only person at their job who's doing that, and they're just going to be fired or reprimanded, best case scenario. And that is not organized at all. And, and so then people are like, "Why aren't you guys walking out of your job? This is not solidarity." And it's like, "you're right. It's not solidarity. Because the solidarity hasn't been built." Like, you have to actually build trust with people to get them to take risks. And if you don't build that trust, and you don't have those actual real relationships, it's not a good idea for people to take those risks because they'll be by themselves taking those risks. Chris: Yeah, begs the question if in order to have solidarity with people elsewhere, does it [00:59:00] have to exist at home first?Clementine: I would say yeah. Absolutely. Jay: And solidarity is kind of meaningless if it's just you. Like it kind of has to be organized, you know, like in some meaningful fashion and that can take place in a small scale or a large scale. But if it was just you feeling solidaristic, like it doesn't, yeah, Clementine: like for example, with the Bangladeshi textile workers, you know. If there was organized labor in North America and say, for example, that like the H&M's were unionized, which I do not think that they are, but if the H& Ms were unionized because, like, the clothing at H&M all comes from Bangladesh, the workers could choose to do a solidarity strike, to strike alongside the Bangladeshi workers, so that the retailers were striking alongside the textile workers, right?And that would be very effective and very cool if that was happening, but in order for that to happen, the retail workers first have to be organized, and they have to have unions, and they actually have to have like an organized labor force here in order to do any kind of meaningful action in [01:00:00] solidarity with the workers in Bangladesh.Chris: Food for thought. Yeah. Thank you both. So my final question. Of the main themes of the pod, one is radical hospitality, which, to me at least, stands as a kind of antidote to industrial hospitality. You know, the systems, the

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Here's part 2! We, too, watched the Max series "The Curious Case of Natalia Grace", about the Barnett family's adoption of a little girl from Ukraine. Related by some to the film The Orphan, in which an adult woman poses as a young orphaned girl to prey on vulnerable families, this case called Natalia's true age and identity into question. Take no one's word for truth (except maybe ours). Check out our Patreon! Support us for $1/month for a shoutout, or $3/month for access to unedited video of each podcast episode and monthly additional content. Follow us on Instagram and Threads @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook at BioPsychoSocial: A Podcast! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

We're jumping on the bandwagon. We, too, watched the Max series "The Curious Case of Natalia Grace", about the Barnett family's adoption of a little girl from Ukraine. Related by some to the film The Orphan, in which an adult woman poses as a young orphaned girl to prey on vulnerable families, this case called Natalia's true age and identity into question. Take no one's word for truth (except maybe ours). Part 2 coming soon! Check out our Patreon! Support us for $1/month for a shoutout, or $3/month for access to unedited video of each podcast episode and monthly additional content. Follow us on Instagram and Threads @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook at BioPsychoSocial: A Podcast! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

Hey we're back! This episode is about a whole town taking justice into their own hands to take down "the town bully," Ken Rex McElroy. Sources: Wikipedia No One Saw A Thing (YouTube) (Sundance Now) The Midwest Crime Files: The Curse of Skidmore, MO Check out our Patreon! Support us for $1/month for a shoutout, or $3/month for access to unedited video of each podcast episode and monthly additional content. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

H. H. Holmes, born Herman Webster Mudgett, is reported to be "America's First Serial Killer." Do we really want to give someone that credit? Anyway, most of what we "know" about him is fake news. Today, Jordan and Kayla discuss the true details. Sources: H. H. Holmes: America's First Serial Killer (documentary, 2004) H. H. Holmes on Wikipedia Check out our Patreon! Support us for $1/month for a shoutout, or $3/month for access to unedited video of each podcast episode and monthly additional content. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

Count how many times we have to remind ourselves of the pronounciation of this one. Prion diseases are terrifying, that's the summary. Now go play Plague, Inc. Sources: CDC Website Friendly Neighborhood Immunologist discusses prion diseases Check out our Patreon! Support us for $1/month for a shoutout, or $3/month for access to unedited video of each podcast episode and monthly additional content. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

Jordan and Kayla explore the murder of Bobby Franks at the hands of Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb, two wealthy Chicago men in their late teens who really thought they'd get away with it (if it wasn't for 60% of Chicagoans who wanted them dead). Sources: In Search Of History - Born Killers: Leopold And Loeb (History Channel Documentary) American Experience: The Perfect Crime (PBS Documentary) Wikipedia Check out our Patreon! Support us for $1/month for a shoutout, or $3/month for access to unedited video of each podcast episode and monthly additional content. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

Back from a brief holiday hiatus, Jordan and Kayla tell the story of how America's Unknown Child finally got a name, 6 decades after his body was discovered. Check out our Patreon! Support us for $1/month for a shoutout, or $3/month for access to unedited video of each podcast episode and monthly additional content. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

https://richardhanania.substack.com/p/why-the-media-is-honest-and-good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coogee,_New_South_Wales https://www.thedailybeast.com/stephen-crowder-and-ben-shapiro-a-right-wing-media-feud-that-just-turned-ugly In my video, I confuse Razib Khan with Jayman. https://jaymans.wordpress.com/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razib_Khan https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/genetics-and-the-history-of-the-jews-with-razib-khan/id1530751167?i=1000542573352 Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSFVD7Xfhn7sJY8LAIQmH8Q/join https://odysee.com/@LukeFordLive, https://lbry.tv/@LukeFord, https://rumble.com/lukeford https://dlive.tv/lukefordlivestreams Superchat: https://entropystream.live/app/lukefordlive Bitchute: https://www.bitchute.com/channel/lukeford/ Soundcloud MP3s: https://soundcloud.com/luke-ford-666431593 Code of Conduct: https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=125692 https://www.patreon.com/lukeford http://lukeford.net Email me: lukeisback@gmail.com or DM me on Twitter.com/lukeford Support the show | https://www.streamlabs.com/lukeford, https://patreon.com/lukeford, https://PayPal.Me/lukeisback Facebook: http://facebook.com/lukecford Feel free to clip my videos. It's nice when you link back to the original.

Far from the case that was sensationalized across major media and many podcasts (only some shade), the murders of Michelle Mishcon and John Stevens at the hands of 19-year-old Austin Harrouff during a psychotic episode. There's a lot to unpack for both of us, and indeed we unpack. Sources: Dr. Phillip Resnick's forensic psychiatric evaluation Clinical Lycanthropy, Neurobiology, Culture: A Systematic Review (Guessoum, S.B., et. al., 2021) Check out our Patreon! Support us for $1/month for a shoutout, or $3/month for access to unedited video of each podcast episode and monthly additional content. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

Jordan and Kayla talk about the Kourtney Kardashian of the serial killer world, Jeffrey Dahmer. This episode focuses heavily on psychological analysis of both Jeffrey and the Dahmer family. Sources: Jeffrey Dahmer: The Milwaukee Cannibal (Crime Documentary) | Real Stories Confessions Of A Serial Killer: Jeffrey Dahmer Talks To Stone Phillips Check out our new Patreon! Support us for $1/month for a shoutout, or $3/month for access to unedited video of each podcast episode and monthly additional content. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

Let's talk about the Casey Anthony case--listen to us before you listen to this actual pile of garbage talk on her new documentary. Oh, and you might want to check on your most toxic ex--they're probably partying with her. Sources: Marcia Clark Investigates The First 48: Death of Caylee Anthony Judgment of Casey Anthony with Ashleigh Banfield TikTok Check out our new Patreon! Support us for $1/month for a shoutout, or $3/month for access to unedited video of each podcast episode and monthly additional content. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

We're back after a long summer hiatus! Welcome to season 3. Today we chat about The Jeffrey Dahmer Story as well as a few cases that captured our attention over the summer. Cameo by Clover. CW: child abuse/murder, cannibalism Sources: Mexico News Daily: Andres Filomeno Mendoza Wiki Article on Victoria Check out our new Patreon! Support us for $1/month for a shoutout, or $3/month for access to unedited video of each podcast episode and monthly additional content. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

It's another all-star cast but not with my usual crew! So many delightful beings get to joke about the Star Wars Vs. Star Trek smacktalk, lightsaber jokes, the Expanded Universe old and new and what other movie-TV roles we all know the key supporting Star Wars cast! Is Billy Dee Williams too cool for anything? Was Darth Vader basically an incel psychopath? Was Mark Hamill better as a voice actor compared to his live-action roles pre and post-fame? Is there truly anyone else we give a shit about besides Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, Pedro Pascal or even Sam Jackson? ;)  If you want non-stop laughter, look no further, fanboy or not!                   MAIN LINKS:  LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/JURSPodcast Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/JackedUpReviewShow/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/JackedUpReview  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jacked_up_podcast/      SHOW LINKS: YouTube: https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCIyMawFPgvOpOUhKcQo4eQQ   iHeartRadio: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-the-jacked-up-review-show-59422651/   Podbean: https://jackedupreviewshow.podbean.com   Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7Eg8w0DNympD6SQXSj1X3M   Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-jacked-up-review-show-podcast/id1494236218   RadioPublic: https://radiopublic.com/the-jacked-up-review-show-We4VjE   Overcast: https://overcast.fm/itunes1494236218/the-jacked-up-review-show-podcast   Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9hNDYyOTdjL3BvZGNhc3QvcnNz   Anchor:  https://anchor.fm/s/a46297c/podcast/rss   PocketCasts: https://pca.st/0ncd5qp4   CastBox:  https://castbox.fm/channel/The-Jacked-Up-Review-Show-Podcast-id2591222    

Adventures of Mooch the Pooch by Sir Herbert Sneakies.

Jordan and Kayla explore the history and impacts of Cabrini Green, a housing project in Chicago that became infamous for its crime and danger. Later, it became central in backlash and criticism about racist housing policies akin to segregation. Sources 70 Acres in Chicago Crisis On Federal Street (PBS, 1987). As reported by Hodding Carter Check out our new Patreon! Support us for $1/month for a shoutout, or $3/month for access to unedited video of each podcast episode and monthly additional content. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

During the first half of the 20th century, Henrietta Lacks unknowingly made a contribution to science...without her consent. Henrietta, a black woman, was admitted to Johns Hopkins for cancer treatment, where an immortal cell line was procured from her cancerous cells. Jordan provides most of the info on this one, including ethics and research since discovery of the cells. Resources include Johns Hopkins and the World Health Organization. Check out our new Patreon! Support us for $1/month for a shoutout, or $3/month for access to unedited video of each podcast episode and monthly additional content. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

What would you do if you found your double? Jordan and Kayla breakdown the documentary Three Identical Strangers (2018, can be found on Hulu) about triplets who meet each other at 19. Along with their new siblings, they discover that they were subjects in an experiment which neither they nor their adoptive parents consented to... CW: suicide Please remember that Jordan and Kayla are healthcare professionals, but not your healthcare professionals. If you or someone you know is is in imminent danger due to thoughts of suicide, contact 911 or your local emergency number. Crisis resources: US: 800-273-8255 (press 2 for Spanish) or https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ to chat Text “home” to 741741 For LGBT+ youth: 1-866-4-U-TREVOR Canada: 1.833.456.4566 or text 45645 UK: +44 (0) 8457 90 90 90 for Samaritans UK For a list of numbers in other countries click this link Resources and support for those who have loved ones struggling with suicidality can be found at this link. Check out our new Patreon! Support us for $1/month for a shoutout, or $3/month for access to unedited video of each podcast episode and monthly additional content. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

Add this to your list of reasons not to (or to give pause to) have kids. Sharon Carr was 12 years old when she brutally murdered 18-year-old Katie Rackliffe in cold blood. And she almost got away with it, if it wasn't for her big mouth... Content warning: child abuse Sources: Jo Frost on Britain's Killer Kids: Sharon Carr (season 1, episode 3. 2017, Dir. Matt Blyth) Murderpedia: Sharon Carr Check out our new Patreon! Support us for $1/month for a shoutout, or $3/month for access to unedited video of each podcast episode and monthly additional content. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

Jay Nath is the Co-CEO of City Innovate, a govtech company streamlining procurement through enterprise software and innovative frameworks. He talks with Chad about how he focuses on helping governments be more effective, responsive, and zeroed in on helping their constituents whether on a small city or a big state scale. City Innovate (https://www.cityinnovate.com/) Follow City Innovate on Twitter (https://twitter.com/CityInnovate) or LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/city-innovate/) Follow Jay on Twitter (https://twitter.com/jay_nath) or LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaynath/). Follow thoughtbot on Twitter (https://twitter.com/thoughtbot) or LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/150727/). Become a Sponsor (https://thoughtbot.com/sponsorship) of Giant Robots! Transcript: CHAD: This is the Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots Podcast, where we explore the design, development, and business of great products. I'm your host, Chad Pytel, and with me today is Jay Nath, Co-CEO of City Innovate and former Chief Innovation Officer of San Francisco. Jay, thanks for joining me. JAY: Yeah, Chad, thank you for having me. CHAD: I assume based on the name and the fact that I've done my research...but I assume based on the name of City Innovate and the fact that you're a former Chief Innovation Officer of San Francisco that what City Innovate might be. But why don't you give everybody an overview of what it is? JAY: Thank you, Chad. So City Innovate is focused on helping governments be more effective, responsive, and focused on helping their constituents, whether it's a small city government or a big state. And the way that we've been doing this is really sort of an interesting; I'd say wonky place. We found that there's a pressure point in government around documents and specifically on procurement. And why is that interesting? Because what I've seen is if you want to work with government and collaborate, whether it's even volunteering or you're a startup, and you want to work, procurement is often that channel. And it's not really a channel; it's more of a barrier, a byzantine process. You can think of this from a technical frame, creating an API, a read/write API to make that process much more streamlined on both sides, helping governments be able to find the best partners to solve their big challenges. And on the other side, folks from all walks of life, whether you're a massive company or you're a founder in a garage, how do you actually connect those two? So we're really working at that intersection, and it's something that I find a lot of value in and importance in. And surprisingly and maybe not surprisingly, there's a lot of need for technology to help connect those dots. And ultimately, I think what I can do is make that process more inclusive and lower the barriers of entry so that people from different communities can participate and help make their communities better. CHAD: So your clients at City Innovate are cities and governmental organizations. Are you just delivering a product to them, or are you often helping them work better too? JAY: It's a bit of both. From a product standpoint, we're really in the B2B space and very much enterprise, if you will. And part of that standard enterprise SaaS offering is also support services, and that can be training, that can be professional services to help them in thought leadership in different ways. And that's exactly what we do. So we not only have our product, but we help them through something called agile procurement. So it's really borrowing from the software development methodology and applying the same principles and approaches to developing and finding the right partner and being more agile and iterative through that process. And historically, it's been very waterfall and very stilted and overly structured. So really being more focused on outcomes, really being focused on getting data into the process so that you can actually do, let's say, a bake-off and get more information before we make that decision. And it's surprising, Chad, folks in government are often buying multimillion dollars, tens of millions of dollars technology systems without actually trying it out. And think about your personal life. You test drive a car. You look through a home. You make these big decisions with a lot of data and evidence. And in government historically, they've been using paper documents to make that decision, RFPs responses, and marketing material. And it's hard to sift through and say, "Hey, what's real and what's not?" So we've been really helping them think through a more agile evidence-based approach, and our software supports that. And so yeah, it's really leading a movement about changing how they think about partnering with the vendor community or contractors. CHAD: So one of the things that is probably interesting about this and maybe a little bit meta is that this is what you help them do. And so you have to go through that process with them of being procured. [laughs] JAY: It is meta. You're absolutely right. [laughs] CHAD: In order to become the vendor that they use. JAY: That's right. CHAD: What are the challenges inherent in that, and does it ever get in the way? And how do people, either your clients, come to you, or how do you find them? And how do you work through that challenging process of government procurement? JAY: Well, the thing is, since we know this space really well, we know how to navigate those different channels, the byzantine processes I mentioned before. I think one of the things I worked on when I was in the City of San Francisco was a program that brought startups and governments together, and we had an educational component. We'd help founders better understand that exact question. How do you actually get contracts with government? And there are no books that are out there. There's no real knowledge out there. And so, we help them talk about the ten different pathways to doing that. So it's a bit of a hidden art, if you will. And I think there needs to be more conversation and more resources for founders if they're looking to go into the public sector to be able to navigate that. So we know that really well. And we're trying to really help broaden access to that knowledge. CHAD: I assume that the clients you end up getting are people who are...or are governments who want to be better. Otherwise, they wouldn't choose your solution. [laughs] JAY: That's right. Well, I think their motivations are multifold. Some of the governments want a process that's more efficient. They know that they can be more productive. They have maybe staffing constraints, and they have a lot of work, so we can help them on the productivity side. There are other governments that are really focused on hey; we need to get better partners out there. We've been working with the same folks over and over again. How do we work with those innovators in our community? So there's that crowd. And then there's, I think, another group of folks who are saying, "Hey, we wanted to make sure that this process is more inclusive. We want to work with folks who are from different backgrounds who may be underrepresented. How do we make this process more streamlined, more efficient so that they're able to participate more effectively?" So I think the motivations can be different, but it's really at the end of the day centered around this idea of digital transformation and service design that allows these two different worlds to be able to communicate and work together more effectively. CHAD: How long is the typical sales cycle for a client? JAY: Man, yeah, [laughs] it can range from weeks, I would say to months and going over 12 months. It can be 12 to 18 months, trying to get in, doing a trial maybe, giving them that certainty, and then securing budget and that annual process of waiting for that budget approval to happen. So it is not for the faint of heart, especially enterprise software within government is really something that requires a lot of different approaches. So partnerships with bigger companies that have the distribution channel, that might have those relationships, that might have those contracts, how do you actually work with them to shortcut the long procurement process? How do you leverage folks like AWS and other cloud providers that may already have a relationship so that you can, again, piggyback off of that? So I think there are a number of different ways to try to compress that timeframe. But it's not a walk in the park, Chad. CHAD: So, in that environment, how did you get started with City Innovate? How long was it until you were able to get your first real customer? And how did you bridge the gap between founding and being in the market? JAY: That's a great question. So being in the public sector, I knew that procurement is a huge challenge and also a pressure point and a leverage point to unlocking a lot of value. And so the work that we had done with startups and government the first experience that we had was amazing. We had a startup that came in and helped blind people navigate through the airport here in San Francisco SFO in four months and truly a collaboration with the startup and the airport staff. And unfortunately, when it came to procurement, it took two years for them to actually get into contract. CHAD: Wow. JAY: For a startup, that's like dog years. That's like an eternity. And so we really knew that we had to tackle that. So we introduced a methodology called challenge-based procurement that, as I spoke to earlier, is more agile, evidence-based, and outcomes-based. And that really leveled the playing field for these young companies to show that hey, we can actually go in here and help you solve that problem. You don't have to work with a big publicly-traded company to do this work and spend a lot of money. We can be more nimble and agile. And so that's really where I started to dig in deeper into procurement. And that work got federally funded because it created a lot of jobs. And we've had hundreds of startups all across the U.S. It's an international program called STIR, Startup In Residence, and really proud of that work. Our mayor, unfortunately, died unexpectedly. So we looked at hey, where do we move this program? And it did make sense for a city to manage a multi-city program, and so City Innovate came to mind. At the time, they were a non-profit. I'd been working with my co-CEO co-executive director at the time. It was a nice, beautiful transition into that. And at that time, I said for myself personally, where do I see impact, and what can I do? And for me, the idea of entrepreneurship, the idea of products making impact in government, I saw how much impact was being made. And so City Innovate has really become that vehicle for myself and the organization to really scale that idea out. CHAD: You mentioned you have a co-CEO. How did that come about? And how do you split the responsibilities between the two of you? JAY: Well, the good thing is we're really great complements. So his focus is really on go-to-market and focusing on how do we get this in the hands of our customers or prospective customers? And I've always been very interested on the product side. I was formerly a VP of product at a startup before my time in government, and so that scenario I find keen interest. And I deeply understand the personas and the use cases of government, having spent a lot of time there. And so that empathy and understanding and building a product around that and having somebody who can help get that product in the hands of government navigating through those difficult processes. It really does take that. You can have a great product, but without that ability to get it in the hands of your customers, especially with governments, it's really challenging. CHAD: Is there any in particular...like, why Co-CEO and not two other C-level roles, one of you CEO, one of you CIO? JAY: I don't think we've spent too much time debating that. And that might change, I think to your point to better describe our focus areas. Maybe my role changes to chief product officer and his to a different role title. I think if you're starting a company, you've got a lot of things to worry about. And it just seemed like a...yeah, I don't think there was much thought in it. CHAD: Yeah. That's interesting, though. You alluded to what you were doing before the City of San Francisco. Well, let's dive into that a little bit more. And specifically, what were you doing, and then why did you join the public sector? JAY: So I was VP of Product at a company called SquareTrade. It was a wonderful journey. We were working with, again, something kind of wonky and a space that was anti-consumer. It was around warranties, specifically electronic warranties. And we were in the eBay marketplace and expanded way beyond that in later years. But when I was there, we really took a contrarian perspective and being inspired by Zappos and many companies that are really focused on the consumer. We changed that value proposition to say, hey, can we build a product that people love, a warranty that actually works? And so we did crazy things like we would actually give you the money before you returned the product. We would have the shipping label. And we wouldn't ask any questions. We did amazing things. But that wasn't just because we were focused on the user experience. We also had data to back it up. We knew that, hey, there are a certain percentage of people who are going to return rocks. And there's a certain percentage of people who are going to do certain things. So we had a lot of information going in. The other thing we knew is that we could own the whole stack, the underwriting, the retailing. And we also knew the business. So that was a great experience. But I really was missing this connection to the public good and doing something that was having impact in a really tangible way. That's when I saw why don't I work for a city I love deeply and care about? And that really drove me into thinking about public service. I had some friends who were in it, and they convinced me that I should take a look at that. And I definitely have found the work that I had been doing in public service to be extremely rewarding and just a unique opportunity. Especially if you're a technologist or a product mindset or an engineering mindset, that is such a rare perspective in government, and being able to bring that in, you can do amazing things. We all know the healthcare.gov and how that was imploding and exploding. It almost brought down a presidency and administration, and it was saved. I think many people know the story, especially in your audience. That was really folks in Silicon Valley saying, "Hey, I'm going to raise my hand and volunteer my time. I might be working at a big company and making a lot of money, but I will take my time out and try to help." And they did. They turned it around. And I think that ethos and that mindset of giving back is something that's animated my interests in public sector and the fact that there's so much need, especially from the tech community, in helping the government out. CHAD: Now, you didn't get started as the City Innovation Officer. [chuckles] So you got started as the Manager of Enterprise CRM for the City of San Francisco. JAY: That's right. Yeah, it was interesting. Yeah, definitely. CHAD: I think that public sector work is maybe a little bit of a black box for people. I know it is for me. You mentioned you knew some people, but I assume that was not a political appointment job. JAY: It was not. CHAD: So, how does one get into that, find it, and get that job and that kind of thing? JAY: I think I took a very rare and uncommon path. So as you noted, I came in helping stand up a call center. So a 311 one call center which is, for the folks who don't know, 311 is for non-emergencies, potholes, et cetera, starting a business, how do I do that? So yeah, set up a CRM system 24/7. It was a great experience and actually much harder than I thought. I was working harder there than I had at the startup, so breaking some stereotypes or at least some ideas that I had in my mind. But I quickly found myself saturating that opportunity and saying, hey, what do I want to do? And this was at the time that Obama had just come into office, and he had a call to action. His first memo in office was around openness and collaboration and that I felt was really compelling to me. I had the opportunity to say, "Hey, let me reach out to folks in White House. I don't have any relationships there, but I have this badge of San Francisco." And that started me on a journey of innovation, civic innovation. And I did some really interesting things with great startups like Twitter at the time. We created a read/write API, the first of its kind in local government. Almost got fired by the [inaudible 16:45] [laughter] and trying to explain just like, why are you opening a channel into government to let people do horrible things? And so it was an interesting conversation. But Gavin Newsom was the mayor at the time then, so you can see it's going back in time. CHAD: [laughs] JAY: But my journey then sort of said, hey, let's continue building data standards and doing good work. And I was recognized by the mayoral campaigns that were running. And so they wanted to sort of say, "Hey, we need somebody in innovation in the mayor's office." So I got recruited into that role, the first of its kind in San Francisco and in the U.S. So it was just a great opportunity to really help define and set a foundation for what does civic innovation mean? What does that look like? And we had a small office, and we did some really interesting work at the nexus of collaboration. That's really what I think is what we tried to do is make government more permeable, more accessible for people who are driving innovation in their communities to be able to participate in government. Mid-roll Ad I wanted to tell you all about something I've been working on quietly for the past year or so, and that's AgencyU. AgencyU is a membership-based program where I work one-on-one with a small group of agency founders and leaders toward their business goals. We do one-on-one coaching sessions and also monthly group meetings. We start with goal setting, advice, and problem-solving based on my experiences over the last 18 years of running thoughtbot. As we progress as a group, we all get to know each other more. And many of the AgencyU members are now working on client projects together and even referring work to each other. Whether you're struggling to grow an agency, taking it to the next level and having growing pains, or a solo founder who just needs someone to talk to, in my 18 years of leading and growing thoughtbot, I've seen and learned from a lot of different situations, and I'd be happy to work with you. Learn more and sign up today at thoughtbot.com/agencyu. That's A-G-E-N-C-Y, the letter U. CHAD: If someone's interested, how might they get involved in contributing to the public sector? JAY: I think there's a couple of different ways. So one way, Chad, is that governments are often putting a lot of data out there. There has been an open data movement that we had led, and it's now a national global movement. So you can find data, and you can create a data product around that and giving more insight into visibility and into issues. You can volunteer with a specific department. They're looking for those skill sets, so you can do that. You can also look for digital services offices. So those are becoming much more commonplace in governments if that's your thing. There are definitely ways to raise your hand and try to contribute. Folks are always looking for it. And if you don't see that opportunity, make that opportunity happen. Reach out to your council member. Reach out to a department head and say, "Hey, I've got this great superpower. I want to help you do better." And I guarantee they will listen because they're often strapped for resources. CHAD: How do you know when you should pursue a more general product that might be useful to governments versus like, oh, if I could get in there and contribute? How do you make that distinction in your mind? JAY: Well, I don't think there needs to be. So you can come in and have maybe a frame of hey, let me help my local government. And you might find opportunities while you're working there. They're using Microsoft Word and Excel to do something that really should be productized so you can think about it from that frame. Or you might have built a product for an adjacent market or for another need and say, "Hey, is there an opportunity to actually reframe this product that I have in the government context?" It might be a content management system. It might be a lot of different products can be reframed in that context. So the way that we actually became a product company from a non-profit was just doing that. We got invited to bring our methodology of agile procurement. And so we had in the back of our mind this idea that I bet if we go there, it's going to be kind of dusty. There's going to be a lot of broken tools, and that was the case. They were using 40-year old technology to manage sometimes billions of dollars of purchasing. And so we saw something that you normally wouldn't have that vantage point by really collaborating and working with them. And that led to product ideas, and that we were able to co-design and co-develop that with our partner governments. And then something that I think is also unique is that they're often eager to work with you because they don't get that opportunity often to work with vendors and folks who can conjure magic in their minds, that they have a vision or idea. And you can come back in a week or a month, and you might have a working product, not just wireframes. And for them, that ability to move so quickly they haven't seen that before. And I saw that firsthand in bringing startups and governments together, the velocity and speed that startups can work with is so different. We all know that. But when they see that, they get excited. They want to work with them. They want to lean into it and figure out, hey, can I give you data? Can I give you other ways to better understand the space? Because no one's cared about this space before. So there's often a willingness to grab a hold of anyone who can actually help them solve their problems. But you have to listen, and you have to come in humble. And I'll share a story here. I created a program called Civic Bridge that brought in pro bono services from big companies like Google and McKinsey, and many others. And some folks from Google came in, and they were sharing how they have to serve everybody. Their product is really ubiquitous and has to serve everybody. They quickly got reminded that government has to serve everybody, people who don't have technology, people who aren't online, people who don't have English as their first language, and people with different disabilities. All of them are constituents. And so technology is one way to reach people. But you have to think broadly about how do you make that service or what you're offering accessible to everybody? And I think that was a humbling experience for the folks there at the table. But what I loved about that program is really this cross-pollination and also breaking down stereotypes in both directions that people sometimes have in the public sector of private sector folks because they often don't hop back and forth. If you're a public sector person, you're often in the public sector. And so being able to actually see that they're not just a bunch of capitalists, [laughs] that they're your neighbor, that these are people who do care about the community, and they're making an impact in a different way. And vice versa, that there are so many talented people in government. And the problems seem simple or seem simple to solve on the outside, but they're often wicked problems or just have a lot of complexity to try to solve. So it's great to be able to have that empathy on both sides. CHAD: Yeah, that's maybe one thing. Are there other things that you would point out that are different when creating and shaping products for the public sector versus the private products? JAY: Yeah, I think that idea of being inclusive is really important. The other one is around...and this is, I think, true even in the private sector but more so in the public sector because of the demographics that you're working with. The demographics are folks who are closer to retirement. They are not digital natives. So when you're building products, you really need to leverage mental models and use that as a way to bring them into a new experience or a new tool. And as an example, there are obviously a lot of government forms that you see, right? CHAD: Mm-hmm. JAY: And I think as a technologist or a product person, you might say, hey, let's move away from Microsoft Word or Adobe PDF or whatever you're using. We have this thing called HTML, and we can bring this online and have all these beautiful affordances. Well, that's really hard for those folks to wrap their heads around and move from something they may have been using for 20, 30 years. And so maybe that first step is not that; maybe it's online fillable PDFs that you can actually store the data in a database and shift that back. And maybe that allows them to actually move more quickly because there's less resistance both internally and for the public as well. And so we've seen that time and time again, is that hey, is there a way to make that shift into a new paradigm but do it in such a way that there's a clear connection point? And then maybe the next step after that is, yeah, we need to make sure this is mobile-ready. Let's actually make that into a responsive design and move away from that PDF. And that's something that we've learned in our own product that, hey, we need to understand deeply the products and tools that they're using today. And how do we draw those parallels and bring them into the current modern set of technologies that we're offering? So it's not always easy, but it's something that we found a lot of success leveraging those mental models. CHAD: Are there other things that you might call out as things you got to keep in mind? JAY: Well, security is often, you know, we see that everywhere with SolarWinds, et cetera. I think there's just a deeper concern of supply chain attacks, ransomware, et cetera. So you're seeing, I think across the board in enterprise as well but in government even more so really focusing on that. And I think the challenge for folks who are building products is how do you find that balance when you have to make sure that you're NIST-certified and all of the SOC 2, et cetera? How do you build a great product that is accessible that doesn't make you go through a bunch of hoops to try to get access to it? And it's not easy. So that adds a layer of complexity trying to build that out. And, Chad, I'm sure you've worked with a lot of folks who have thought about government or may have had some success with it. So it might be interesting to hear from you if there are certain patterns or product sensibilities that you've seen that have been successfully applied in the public sector realm. CHAD: Well, I think you're right about that inherent complexity or that the bar is pretty high in order to have a product which is accessible and secure. If you're building a product for consumers, you can do some of that stuff iteratively. It can be difficult to work in an agile, iterative way in a highly regulated space. And so there's maybe not even one set way that you do that. It might be different for the space that you operate in. But it is important to take a step back and say, what can we do iteratively, or what can we leave off right now because we have to do this other thing? And those will be different for every product. And I see the real mistake being not taking that step back and not really being thoughtful about how you're going to do that in the complex, highly regulated space. And this is true for healthcare and finance as well. There are certain things you've got to do. And really, you have to approach it pretty thoughtfully in order to make sure you can still work and not just default to doing everything agile. We have this concept of like the 80-20 rule, and that is sometimes really difficult to do in the public space, right? JAY: I think you're absolutely right. And I think people recognize that highly regulated markets or industries are tough to crack. And I think you're absolutely right, Chad, that you have to find that entry point where maybe you can come in and the regulations are lower for that problem that you're solving initially. And use that as a place to land and then better understand where you fit into the overall workflow. And you're able to go upstream and downstream from there. And that's a lot of what we've seen success with these young startups, and the work we're doing will come in where there's maybe not so much regulations and provide value there, build trust, and then look at the broader ecosystem or processes to say, "Hey, where can we add more value?" Yes, it might be highly regulated. But we now have a better understanding, more resources, and customers to help us educate climbing that mountain together. But yeah, I want to make sure that...the flip side of all this...so if I were listening, I'd say, "Well, it sounds like the public sector is really tough," [laughter] and it is, but it's also truly rewarding. I think being able to know that you're able to help at the scale that the government does its work is really, really rewarding. One of the founders that we helped get her first product was to help foster kids, and that foster process that we've probably all heard is really, really tough. And they brought that online, and they went from one city...they're in so many different states now serving so many people across the U.S., and they're doing really well. They're, I think, Series B or C. And it's amazing. But it took that one government to take a chance and to be able to bring all this value. So that's something that excites me is the level of impact is so significant. CHAD: On that note, you started the conversation saying that procurement was the area where you felt like you could have an impact. Do you see expanding beyond that in the future, or is that not on your roadmap? JAY: I think we have a lot to chew on. But like a lot of product folks, we've got ideas that are further out. What I'm seeing in the government space when we talk about digital transformation...in the government context, you're often talking about PDFs and Microsoft Word documents, et cetera. So I think for us, we're really excited about is there a new way to think about documents in a way that works for governments? They're used to Microsoft Word. But is there more that can be done there to create more affordances, to create more powers that they just don't have today? And they're using Post-it Notes or whatever it might be to try to address those shortcomings. CHAD: Everything is going to be marked down in GitHub eventually. [laughter] JAY: Yes, we do need to introduce Markdown or just plain text, maybe. Why are these contracts locked up in Microsoft Word? Yeah, that's something that's a pet peeve of mine as well. I spend a lot of time in open data. And let's not use proprietary formats. Let's use something that folks understand. But the world is changing, which is great. We're seeing more governments using JSON. And one of the things that I'll share is that when you're building a product for government, you do have to think about the data component because that data doesn't belong to you; you're really stewards. That data belongs to the government and its constituents. So that's a different way of thinking because often, private companies are trying to monetize the data that they're having. So you have to have a much more sort of a frame that you're a custodian. CHAD: I think that's one of the things that can get a little lost, whether it be bureaucracy or politics or whatever but this idea that there is a community here. It is the community in which you live. You said that what inspired you to get involved was wanting to contribute back to a city that you love. It's easy for that to get lost in everything. JAY: Yeah. And that's my call to action to your audiences. Sort of touching upon our earlier points in our conversation, find a way if you have that means, and ability, and interest to make your community better. It might be something just for your city, or it might be something bigger. And I've seen so many people have good ideas. But to your point, how do you actually convert that good idea into something that's valuable and used by the community? And hopefully, this conversation is helping people and inspiring them to raise their hands and knock on the door. I think you'll see folks on the other side giving you a warm reception. They're very hungry and eager for people who have the capabilities of product and engineering and that type of talent to come to the table and help them. CHAD: That's great. If folks want to get in touch with you or find out more about City Innovate or STIR, too, where are the places where they can do that? JAY: They can go to our website cityinnovate.com. They can also go...I've got my own personal website, jaynath.com. And I'm very open. I have been since my days in public service. I'm still very accessible, maybe not as responsive as I used to be, just with all that work of being a founder. But if you're interested in this space, I always want to give back because we need great people with great talent working in the public sector, whether it's for government or within government or building a product for government. CHAD: Awesome. Jay, thanks very much for stopping by and sharing with us. JAY: Thank you so much, Chad, for the opportunity to share the work that we're doing. CHAD: You can subscribe to the show and find notes and a transcript for this episode at giantrobots.fm. If you have questions or comments, email us at hosts@giantrobots.fm. And you can find me on Twitter @cpytel. This podcast is brought to you by thoughtbot and produced and edited by Mandy Moore. Thanks for listening and see you next time ANNOUNCER: This podcast was brought to you by thoughtbot. thoughtbot is your expert design and development partner. Let's make your product and team a success. Special Guest: Jay Nath.

This week we look into the Darlie Routier case. The 90s were a wonderful time for fashion, music, and apparently, mothers murdering their children. We are dying to hear your opinions on whether Darlie Routier is guilty.  Our source is 20/20: Season 42 ep 35: The Last Defense (2019) Check out our new Patreon! Support us for $1/month for a shoutout, or $3/month for access to unedited video of each podcast episode and monthly additional content. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

Let's take a deep dive into Christian fundamentalism, why people are so attracted to it, and what makes it harmful. Just in time for Jesus' birthday. Sources: https://www.britannica.com/topic/fundamentalism https://www.healthypeople.gov/2020/topics-objectives/topic/lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender-health https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pdf/risk/prep/cdc-hiv-prep-guidelines-2017.pdf https://www.history.com/.amp/topics/1980s/hiv-aids-crisis-timeline Religious fundamentalism, individuality, and collective identity: A case study of two student organizations in Iran https://sociologysaviour.wordpress.com/2015/08/04/fundamentalism-unit-3/ Not a source (per se) but definitely check out Fundie Fridays on YouTube for more on this topic. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

Happy Thanksgiving! This one comes with a few content warnings for mentions of domestic violence, rape/sexual assault, and for those of you with weak stomachs. Put down the leftovers until after you've listened. Indigenous Peoples Month Resources: Dig Deep (clean water) MMI Who is Missing (Missing and Murdered Indigenous People) Rethinking Thanksgiving Toolkit TikTok: Lance Tsosie/@modern_warrior__ TikTok: Shina Nova Find out what native land you are on at Native Land Digital Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

Jordan and Kayla explore Britney Spears' conservatorship, including what lead up to her mental health crisis and why we should be taking a good look at how we treat these delicate situations. Sources: New York Times Presents: Framing Britney Spears; Controlling Britney Spears Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

15-year-old Martha Moxley was murdered the night of October 30th, 1975 in the affluent town of Greenwich, Connecticut. Neither Martha nor her family have ever received justice. What happened to her on mischief night more than 40 years ago? Sources: Murder in Greenwich: The Martha Moxley Case Murder and Justice: The Case of Martha Moxley Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @biopsychpod, and find us on Facebook too! Music by JayMan at https://bit.ly/2uWO2jO

In Chapter 1 of School of the Fates, Chip and Lance band together to protect a magical school from diabolical villains bent on its destruction!https://share.transistor.fm/s/1604e429Music:Circus of Dread by Robert Austin MusicWrath by Alexander NakaradaLink: https://filmmusic.io/song/4972-wrathLicense: https://filmmusic.io/standard-licenseLand Of Magic  by Rafael KruxLink: https://filmmusic.io/song/5679-land-of-magic-License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-licenseMagic Cinematic Upbeat Trailer by MusicLFilesLink: https://filmmusic.io/song/7773-magic-cinematic-upbeat-trailerLicense: https://filmmusic.io/standard-licenseWonder and Magic by Jay Man (ourmusicbox.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 LicenseParsemoth by Dave DevilleLink: https://filmmusic.io/song/8230-parsemothLicense: https://filmmusic.io/standard-licenseLove Song by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://filmmusic.io/song/4006-love-songLicense: https://filmmusic.io/standard-licenseBlue Sizzle by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://filmmusic.io/song/3452-blue-sizzleLicense: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license“Revolution” by Josh Woodward is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution License. Beachfront Celebration by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License“Feather Duster” by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.comGood Ideas For A New Startup by MusicLFilesLink: https://filmmusic.io/song/8159-good-ideas-for-a-new-startupLicense: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license“Sitcom Rock Sting” by Alexander Nakarada (www.serpentsoundstudios.com)licensed under Creative Commons BY Attribution 4.0 License

Fourteen years have passed since Tarzan, Jane, and baby Jack escaped the clutches of Rokoff, Alexis, and La just off the western coast of equatorial Africa. In response to their traumatic experiences with the kidnappings, Tarzan and Jane agree to keep our hero's life amongst the apes a secret to their son. To the dismay of the family's intentions, Jack has inherited his father's love for nature. When an exhibit at the London Zoo causes Akut to mysteriously show up in our adventurer's lives, Tarzan finds he can no longer hide his secret. Jack is mysteriously kidnapped by Alexis, but with the help of his new friend Meriem he may just be able to find his parents again. Where will Jack's trials and tribulations take him? What is Alexis up to? And will the Greystoke dynasty ever be reunited again? Tune into Freshly Squeezed Pulp's The Adventures of Tarzan® this week to find out! Trademarks TARZAN®, TARZAN OF THE APES™, LORD OF THE JUNGLE®, LORD GREYSTOKE™, TARZAN AND JANE®, JANE PORTER™, JANE CLAYTON™, KORAK™, AND EDGAR RICE BURROUGHS® Owned by Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc. Associated logos, characters, names, and the distinctive likenesses thereof are trademarks or registered trademarks of Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc., and used by permission. Music credits for this week's episode go to Jay Man for the use of his song “Sneaky” (OurMusicBox.com), Alexander Hoff for his song “Drums of Battle” and “Marching Pirates” (goo.gl/9AGRKd),and Epidemic Sound. Special thanks to MediaJF99 on YouTube. for the use of their record scratch sound effect. FSP's Theme, “Adventure Awaits”, is composed by Mac Gagné.

When we last left Tarzan, our hero had just gotten married to Jane Porter on the western coast of equatorial Africa. While the two settle down at the Greystoke Estate back in England and have a son named Jack, it isn't long before Alexis, Clayton, and Rokoff are up to their old shenanigans. Soon, Tarzan, Jane, and Jack are all kidnapped by their enemies and end up (you guessed it) back on the exact same coast of Africa! Will Tarzan find his infant son and Jane? Will our villains get what is coming to them? And what is High Priestess La up to this time? Tune in to Freshly Squeezed Pulp's The Adventures of Tarzan® this week to find out! Trademarks TARZAN®, TARZAN OF THE APES™, LORD OF THE JUNGLE®, LORD GREYSTOKE™, TARZAN AND JANE®, JANE PORTER™, JANE CLAYTON™, KORAK™, AND EDGAR RICE BURROUGHS® Owned by Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc. Associated logos, characters, names, and the distinctive likenesses thereof are trademarks or registered trademarks of Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc., and used by permission. Music credits for this week's episode go to Jay Man for the use of his song “Sneaky” (OurMusicBox.com), Epidemic Sound, Alexander Hoff for his song “Drums of Battle” and “Marching Pirates” (goo.gl/9AGRKd). Special thanks to MediaJF99 on YouTube for the use of their record scratch sound effect. FSP's Theme, “Adventure Awaits”, is composed by Mac Gagné.

Freshly Squeezed Pulp is proud to present our debut comedy podcast series, The Adventures of Tarzan®! Join us as we modernize this classic tale for a modern-day audience. In Episode 1, dig deep inside to find the adventurer within you as we introduce our series' explorer extraordinaire, Tarzan! How did this remarkable hero come to be? And how do the important players of this tale cross paths with our dashing protagonist? Join us on our first excursion into one of the most classic pulp-fiction tales ever told as we set the stage for many more adventures to come. Trademarks TARZAN®, TARZAN OF THE APES™, LORD OF THE JUNGLE®, LORD GREYSTOKE™, TARZAN AND JANE®, JANE PORTER™, JANE CLAYTON™, KORAK™, AND EDGAR RICE BURROUGHS® Owned by Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc. Associated logos, characters, names, and the distinctive likenesses thereof are trademarks or registered trademarks of Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc., and used by permission. Media credits for this week's episode go to Jay Man for the use of his song “Sneaky” (OurMusicBox.com), Epidemic Sound, Alexander Hoff for his song “Drums of Battle” and “Marching Pirates” (goo.gl/9AGRKd). Special thanks to MediaJF99 on YouTube. for the use of their record scratch sound effect. FSP's Theme, “Adventure Awaits”, is composed by Mac Gagné.

In this episode, our host, James Gardner will be joined by his lifelong friend, John Sellar. Together, they will be sharing memories of their fathers Alistair Sellar and Jack Gardner. Al and Jack met in 1925 when they were in second grade in Bloomfield, New Jersey. They had a rare friendship that lasted their entire lives. Both men's lives exemplified the strength, courage and determination of the “greatest generation”. John and James will tell stories of how their dads' friendship continued throughout the years and eventually grew to include their wives and children. On this Father's Day, they have the honor of telling about a friendship between their two families that began almost a century ago and continues to this day. Photo(s): Courtesy of the Sellar & Gardner families Music: "With Loved Ones", Jay Man

Where can you go to hear stories about your favorite bands and musicians — stories that you've likely never heard before? Autobiographies (aka memoirs) are the prime source for in-depth stories on the lives and careers of such legendary musicians as Tony Iommi, Ozzy Osbourne, Sammy Hagar, Gene Simmons, Paul Stanley, Scott Ian and many, many others. On this episode of Into the Void, Dave Manack and JayMan discuss their favorite autobios of all time, and some of the best stories they've read along the way. Plus, don't miss the exclusive interview with veteran journalist and author Jon Wiederhorn, who co-wrote books with Scott Ian and Al Jourgenson. His newest book, "Raising Hell: Backstage Tales from the Lives of Metal Legends" is out now, and Jon discusses this book and some great stories involving the heavy music legends he's worked with over the years.

It may be almost Christmas, but the guys are still reeling a bit from a post-Halloween hangover. The cure? An episode all about masks and makeup! Over the past 40-plus years, a handful of bands have stood out from the rest — everyone from Alice Cooper to KISS to Gwar to Slipknot — by accentuating their personas in ways no one had seen before. In this episode, Dave Manic, Lord Gates, Wild Bill and Jay Man talk about the history and impact of masks and makeup in rock music. One band emerges as the top choice for best mask/makeup ban of all time — can you guess which one? The episode concludes with an insider's perspective on the formation of mask-wearing legends Slipknot from a guy who was there and saw it all happen, drummer and Iowa native Dan Spain of Downthesun and Deadfront.

Finally ... after several months in existence, the Into the Void music podcast dedicates an entire episode to the godfathers of all that is heavy: Black Sabbath! With the 50th anniversary of "Paranoid" combining with the anniversary of the release of Nativity in Black, the Black Sabbath tribute album released in 1994, it was the perfect time for Dave, Wild Bill, Lord Gates and JayMan to discuss the lasting importance of Ozzy, Tony, Geezer and Bill and the genre they helped to create. The guys list their top 5 Sabbath albums (will a Dio album make the cut?), while the feature interview includes Bob Chiappardi of Concrete Marketing, the man who was responsible for producing "Nativity in Black." And wait until you hear his Ozzy story!

In this episode, we will explore the life, times and inspiration behind the art of Rea Redifer, through the recollections of his grandson, Max Hunt. Rea's art included painting, poetry, screen and play writing. Music Credit: "With Loved Ones", Jay Man

This promo lets you get to know the host of YHYS and his motivation for our podcast! Music credit: "With Loved Ones' - Jay Man

Often ignored in discussions about strongman politics is how women are steadily cementing their place in the halls of power. How are women leaders affecting political outcomes around the world? How have countries and cities benefited from women's leadership? How can corporate practices strengthen efforts at promoting women's leadership? This panel at Raisina Dialogue 2020 discussed how women leaders are scripting stories of change around the world.Moderator: Joanna Roper (Special Envoy for Gender Equality, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, United Kingdom)Panelists: Smriti Irani (Minister of Women & Child Development, Minister of Textiles, India)Helen Clark (Former Prime Minister, New Zealand; Member, WLA-Club de Madrid)Esther Brimmer (Executive Director & CEO, NAFSA: Association of International Educators, United States)Eleni Kounalakis (Lieutenant Governor of California, United States)Patricia Scotland (Secretary-General, Commonwealth Secretariat) Share your feedback on: podcasts@orfonline.orgIntroduction music credit: 'Rising Spirits' by Jay Man.

Russia is a significant global player as well as an important strategic partner of India. In this episode of the Raisina podcast we talk not only about the role of Russia in the modern world but look at some domestic issues faced by Russia. We discuss these maters with Dr. Vyacheslav Nikonov, a member of the Russian parliament (Duma). Dr. Nikonov has been a member of the staff of Presidents Mikhail Gorbachev, Boris Yeltsin and Vladimir Putin and is thus well versed with the intricacies of Russian domestic and foreign policies.Follow Nandan Unnikrishnan on Twitter: @jonandanShare your feedback on: podcasts@orfonline.orgIntroduction music credit: 'Rising Spirits' by Jay Man.

A crisis of identity has gripped the EU's foreign policy. The continent is caught between its Atlantic moorings and its growing equity in Asia. As the EU invests more resources and energy in Eurasia and the Indo-Pacific, will it find that its interests in these regions do not fully converge with those of its principal partner, the US? Will the EU engage with China and Russia to secure its political future? Will such new priorities strain its partnership with the US and can a stronger relationship with India provide the EU more room to maneuver? This panel, at Raisina Dialogue 2020, asks whether there exists a European consensus on these issues and explores how the continent is responding to shifts in the global balance of power.Moderator: Ali Aslan, Anchor, Germany - @AslanTVPanelists: Gen. Claudio Graziano, Chairman, European Union Military Committee - @ChairmanEUMCPéter Szijjártó, Minister of Foreign Affairs, HungaryTheresa Fallon, Founder and Director, Center for Russia Europe Asia Studies, Ireland - @TheresaAFallonMarina Kaljurand, Member of European Parliament, Estonia - @MarinaKaljurandHans-Thomas Paulsen, Member of the Executive Board, Körber-Stiftung, GermanyShare your feedback on: podcasts@orfonline.orgIntroduction music credit: 'Rising Spirits' by Jay Man.

The struggle against terrorism has dual frontlines: both weak or militarised states, and platforms and online communities that have been weaponised by recruiters and purveyors of radicalisation. What tools does the global community have to punish behaviour from states that have traditionally viewed “non-state actors” as a tool rather than a threat – or in which significant and entrenched interests have sympathy for officially disavowed terror organisations' goals? And can a global response to terror ignore the online spaces that serve as incubators of terror? The panel called for global condemnation of nation-states providing safe haven to terror groups.Moderator: Yalda Hakim (Journalist, BBC World News, Australia): @BBCYaldaHakimPanelists: Gen. Bipin Rawat (Chief of Defence Staff, India)Stephen Harper (Former Prime Minister, Canada): @stephenharperSaad Mohseni (CEO, Moby Group, Australia): @saadmohseniGareth Bayley (Special Representative on Afghanistan and Pakistan, United Kingdom) Erin Saltman (Head of Counter-Terrorism Policy (Europe, Middle East & Africa), Facebook, United States): @ErinSaltmanShare your feedback on: podcasts@orfonline.orgIntroduction music credit: 'Rising Spirits' by Jay Man.

Jay Kurtz is truly one of a kind! On this episode we take a journey with Jay into how consistency played a major role in the success of his current business Jay Man‘s lawn care! --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/the3cproject/message

In this episode, the dads discuss the latest goings-on in the world. We talk about how the Coronavirus has affected our family, work, and day-to-day lives. Sgt. Whiskey Jack drops some good knowledge on the pandemic, and goes 2 for 3 on his dad jokes. TNL urges us all to save some TP for him, and Jayman spreads some positivity at the end. It's going to be alright, gang. We'll get through this crazy time!!

In this episode, Jayman takes us through the history of the NES. Listen to how it all got started, the rise, and eventually the fall of the 80's most popular console. We discuss how 3rd parties were handled, the most popular games, and just what the hell was R.O.B.?? The dads also share some of their fondest memories of the Nintendo from their childhood, and we discuss its place in the ethos of consoles. Follow us on social media! Instagram/Twitter: @dadsanddpads E-mail: Dadsanddpads@gmail.com --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/dadsanddpads/message

In this episode, the Dads discuss the games they have loved and logged many hours in over the years. In addition, we discuss TNL's whereabouts, Jayman talks about his groin, and Sgt. Whiskey Jack fangirls over Girl Scout cookies. Follow us on the socials! Twitter/Instagram/Twitch: @DadsandDpads Email: dadsanddpads@gmail.com --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/dadsanddpads/message