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Host Dr. Nate Pennell and his guest, Dr. Chloe Atreya, discuss the ASCO Educational Book article, “Integrative Oncology: Incorporating Evidence-Based Approaches to Patients With GI Cancers,” highlighting the use of mind-body approaches, exercise, nutrition, acupuncture/acupressure, and natural products. Transcript Dr. Nate Pennell: Welcome to ASCO Education: By the Book, our new monthly podcast series that will feature engaging discussions between editors and authors from the ASCO Educational Book. We'll be bringing you compelling insights on key topics featured in Education Sessions at ASCO meetings and some deep dives on the approaches shaping modern oncology.  I'm Dr. Nate Pennell, director of the Cleveland Clinic Lung Cancer Medical Oncology Program as well as vice chair of clinical research for the Taussig Cancer Institute. Today, I'm delighted to welcome Dr. Chloe Atreya, a professor of Medicine in the GI Oncology Group at the University of California, San Francisco, Helen Diller Family Comprehensive Cancer Center, and the UCSF Osher Center for Integrative Health, to discuss her article titled, “Integrative Oncology Incorporating Evidence-Based Approaches to Patients With GI Cancers”, which was recently published in the ASCO Educational Book. Our full disclosures are available in the transcript of this episode.  Dr. Atreya, it's great to have you on the podcast today. Thanks for joining me. Dr. Chloe Atreya: Thanks Dr. Pennell. It's a pleasure to be here. Dr. Nate Pennell: Dr. Atreya, you co-direct the UCSF Integrative Oncology Program with a goal to really help patients with cancer live as well as possible. And before we dive into the review article and guidelines, I'd love to just know a little bit about what inspired you to go into this field? Dr. Chloe Atreya: Yeah, thank you for asking. I've had a long-standing interest in different approaches to medicine from global traditions and I have a degree in pharmacology, and I continue to work on new drug therapies for patients with colorectal cancer. And one thing that I found is that developing new drugs is a long-term process and often we're not able to get the drugs to the patients in front of us. And so early on as a new faculty member at UCSF, I was trying to figure out what I could do for the patient in front of me if those new drug therapies may not be available in their lifetime. And one thing I recognized was that in some conversations the patient and their family members, even if the patient had metastatic disease, they were able to stay very present and to live well without being sidelined by what might happen in the future. And then in other encounters, people were so afraid of what might be happening in the future, or they may have regrets maybe about not getting that colonoscopy and that was eroding their ability to live well in the present.  So, I started asking the patients and family members who were able to stay present, “What's your secret? How do you do this?” And people would tell me, “It's my meditation practice,” or “It's my yoga practice.” And so, I became interested in this. And an entry point for me, and an entry point to the Osher Center at UCSF was that I took the Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction Program to try to understand experientially the evidence for this and became very interested in it. I never thought I would be facilitating meditation for patients, but it became a growing interest. And as people are living longer with cancer and are being diagnosed at younger ages, often with young families, how one lives with cancer is becoming increasingly important.   Dr. Nate Pennell: I've always been very aware that it seemed like the patients that I treated who had the best quality of life during their life with cancer, however that ended up going, were those who were able to sort of compartmentalize it, where, when it was time to focus on discussing treatment or their scans, they were, you know, of course, had anxiety and other things that went along with that. But when they weren't in that, they were able to go back to their lives and kind of not think about cancer all the time. Whereas other people sort of adopt that as their identity almost is that they are living with cancer and that kind of consumes all of their time in between visits and really impacts how they're able to enjoy the rest of their lives. And so, I was really interested when I was reading your paper about how mindfulness seemed to be sort of like a formal way to help patients achieve that split. I'm really happy that we're able to talk about that. Dr. Chloe Atreya: Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. So, each of our patients is more than their cancer diagnosis. And the other thing I would say is that sometimes patients can use the cancer diagnosis to get to, “What is it that I really care about in life?” And that can actually heighten an experience of appreciation for the small things in life, appreciation for the people that they love, and that can have an impact beyond their lifetime. Dr. Nate Pennell: Just in general, I feel like integrative medicine has come a long way, especially over the last decade or so. So, there's now mature data supporting the incorporation of elements of integrative oncology into comprehensive cancer care. We've got collaborations with ASCO. They've published clinical practice guidelines around diet, around exercise, and around the use of cannabinoids. ASCO has worked with the Society for Integrative Oncology to address management of pain, anxiety, depression, fatigue – lots of different evidence bases now to try to help guide people, because this is certainly something our patients are incredibly interested in learning about. Can you get our listeners up to speed a little bit on the updated guidelines and resources supporting integrative oncology? Dr. Chloe Atreya: Sure. I can give a summary of some of the key findings. And these are rigorous guidelines that came together by consensus from expert panels. I had the honor of serving on the anxiety and depression panel. So, these panels will rate the quality of the evidence available to come up with a strength of recommendation. I think that people are at least superficially aware of the importance of diet and physical activity and that cannabis and cannabinoids have evidence of benefit for nausea and vomiting. They may not be aware of some of the evidence supporting these other modalities. So, for anxiety and depression, mindfulness-based interventions, which include meditation and meditative movement, have the strongest level of evidence. And the clinical practice guidelines indicate that they should be offered to any adult patient during or after treatment who is experiencing symptoms of anxiety or depression. Other modalities that can help with anxiety and depression include yoga and Tai Chi or Qigong. And with the fatigue guidelines, mindfulness-based interventions are also strongly recommended, along with exercise and cognitive behavioral therapy, Tai Chi and Qigong during treatment, yoga after treatment.  And some of these recommendations also will depend on where the evidence is. So, yoga is an example of an intervention that I think can be helpful during treatment, but most of our evidence is on patients who are post-treatment. So, most of our guidelines separate out during treatment and the post-treatment phase because the quality of evidence may be different for these different phases of treatment.  With the pain guidelines, the strongest recommendation is for acupuncture, specifically for people with breast cancer who may be experiencing joint pain related to aromatase inhibitors. However, acupuncture and other therapies, including massage, can be helpful with pain as well. So those are a few of the highlights. Dr. Nate Pennell: Yeah, I was surprised at the really good level of evidence for the mindfulness-based practices because I don't think that's the first thing that jumps to mind when I think about integrative oncology. I tend to think more about physical interventions like acupuncture or supplements or whatnot. So, I think this is really fantastic that we're highlighting this.  And a lot of these interventions like the Qigong, Tai Chi, yoga, is it the physical practice of those that benefits them or is it that it gives them something to focus on, to be mindful of? Is that the most important intervention? It doesn't really matter what you're doing as long as you have something that kind of takes you out of your experience and allows you to focus on the moment. Dr. Chloe Atreya: I do think it is a mind, body and spirit integration, so that all aspects are important. We also say that the best practice is the one that you actually practice. So, part of the reason that it's important to have these different modalities is that not everybody is going to take up meditation. And there may be people for whom stationary meditation, sitting and meditating, works well, and other people for whom meditative movement practices may be what they gravitate to. And so, I think that it's important to have a variety of options. And one thing that's distinct from some of our pharmacologic therapies is that the safety of these is, you know, quite good. So, it becomes less important to say, “Overall, is Tai Chi better or is yoga better?” for instance. It really depends on what it is that someone is going to take up. Dr. Nate Pennell: And of course, something that's been really nice evidence-based for a long time, even back when I was in my training in the 2000s with Jennifer Temel at Massachusetts General Hospital, was the impact of physical activity and exercise on patients with cancer. It seems like that is pretty much a universally good recommendation for patients. Dr. Chloe Atreya: Yes, that's absolutely right. Physical activity has been associated with improved survival after a cancer diagnosis. And that's both cancer specific survival and overall survival.  The other thing I'll say about physical activity, especially the mindful movement practices like Tai Chi and Qigong and yoga, is that they induce physiologic shifts in the body that can promote relaxation, so they can dampen that stress response in a physiologic way. And these movement practices are also the best way to reduce cancer-associated fatigue. Dr. Nate Pennell: One of the things that patients are always very curious about when they talk to me, and I never really feel like I'm as well qualified as I'd like to be to advise them around dietary changes in nutrition. And can you take me a little bit through some of the evidence base for what works and what doesn't work? Dr. Chloe Atreya: Sure. I do think that it needs to be tailored to the patient's needs. Overall, a diet that is plant-based and includes whole grains is really important. And I often tell patients to eat the rainbow because all of those different phytochemicals that cause the different colors in our fruits and vegetables are supporting different gut microbiota. So that is a basis for a healthy gut microbiome. That said, you know, if someone is experiencing symptoms related to cancer or cancer therapy, it is important to tailor dietary approaches. This is where some of the mindful eating practices can help. So, sometimes actually not just focusing on what we eat, but how we eat can help with symptoms that are associated with eating. So, some of our patients have loss of appetite, and shifting one's relationship to food can help with nutrition. Sometimes ‘slow it down' practices can help both with appetite and with digestion. Dr. Nate Pennell: One of the things that you said both in the paper and just now on our podcast, talking about how individualized and personalized this is. And I really liked the emphasis that you had on flexibility and self-compassion over rigid discipline and prescriptive recommendations here. And this is perhaps one of the real benefits of having an integrative oncology team that can work with patients as opposed to them just trying to find things online. Dr. Chloe Atreya: Yes, particularly during treatment, I think that's really important. And that was borne out by our early studies we called “Being Present.” So, after I was observing the benefits anecdotally among my patients of the ability to be present, we designed these pilot studies to teach meditation and meditative practices to patients. And in these pilot studies, the original ones were pretty prescriptive in a way that mindfulness-based stress reduction is fairly prescriptive in terms of like, “This is what we're asking you to do. Just stick with the program.” And there can be benefits if you can stick with the program. It's really hard though if someone is going through treatment and with GI cancers, it may be that they're getting chemotherapy every two weeks and they have one week where they're feeling really crummy and another week where they're trying to get things done. And we realized that sometimes people were getting overwhelmed and feeling like the mindfulness practice was another thing on their to-do list and that they were failing if they didn't do this thing that was important for them. And so, we've really kind of changed our emphasis. And part of our emphasis now is on incorporating mindfulness practices into daily life. Any activity that doesn't require a lot of executive function can be done mindfully, meaning with full attention. And so, especially for some of our very busy patients, that can be a way of, again, shifting how I'm doing things rather than adding a new thing to do. Dr. Nate Pennell: And then another part I know that patients are always very curious about that I'm really happy to see that we're starting to build an evidence base for is the use of supplements and natural products. So, can you take us a little bit through where we stand in terms of evidence behind, say, cannabis and some of the other available products out there? Dr. Chloe Atreya: Yeah, I would say that is an area that requires a lot more study. It's pretty complicated because unlike mindfulness practices where there are few interactions with other treatments, there is the potential for interactions, particularly with the supplements. And the quality of the supplements matters. And then there tends to be a lot of heterogeneity among the studies both in the patients and what other treatments they may be receiving, as well as the doses of the supplements that they're receiving.  One of my earliest mentors at Yale is someone named Dr. Tommy Chang, who has applied the same rigor that that we apply to testing of biomedical compounds to traditional Chinese medicine formulas. And so, ensuring that the formulation is stable and then formally testing these formulations along with chemotherapy. And we need more funding for that type of research in order to really elevate our knowledge of these natural products. We often will direct patients to the Memorial Sloan Kettering ‘About Herbs, Botanicals, and Other Products' database as one accessible source to learn more about the supplements. We also work with our pharmacists who can provide the data that exists, but we do need to take it with a grain of salt because of the heterogeneity in the data. And then it's really important if people are going to take supplements, for them to take supplements that are of high quality. And that's something in the article that we list all of the things that one should look for on the label of a supplement to ensure that it is what it's billed to be. Dr. Nate Pennell: So, most of what we've been talking about so far has really been applying to all patients with cancer, but you of course are a GI medical oncologist, and this is a publication in the Educational Book from the ASCO GI Symposium. GI cancers obviously have an incredibly high and rising incidence rate among people under 50, representing a quarter of all cancer incidence worldwide, a third of cancer related deaths worldwide. Is there something specific that GI oncologists and patients with GI cancers can take home from your paper or is this applicable to pretty much everyone? Dr. Chloe Atreya: Yeah, so the evidence that we review is specifically for GI cancers. So, it shows both its strengths and also some of the limitations. So many of the studies have focused on other cancers, especially breast cancer. In the integrative oncology field, there are definitely gaps in studying GI cancers. At the same time, I would say that GI cancers are very much linked to lifestyle in ways that are complicated, and we don't fully understand. However, the best ways that we can protect against development of GI cancers, acknowledging that no one is to blame for developing a GI cancer and no one is fully protected, but the best things that we can do for overall health and to prevent GI cancers are a diet that is plant-based, has whole grains. There's some data about fish that especially the deep-water fish, may be protective and then engaging in physical activity.  One thing I would like for people to take away is that these things that we know that are preventative against developing cancer are also important after development of a GI cancer. Most of the data comes from studies of patients with colorectal cancer and that again, both cancer specific and overall mortality is improved with better diet and with physical activity. So, this is even after a cancer diagnosis. And I also think that, and this is hard to really prove, but we're in a pretty inflammatory environment right now. So, the things that we can do to decrease stress, improve sleep, decrease inflammation in the body, and we do know that inflammation is a risk factor for developing GI cancers. So, I think that all of the integrative modalities are important both for prevention and after diagnosis. Dr. Nate Pennell: And one of the things you just mentioned is that most of the studies looking at integrative oncology and GI cancers have focused on colorectal cancer, which of course, is the most common GI cancer. But you also have pointed out that there are gaps in research and what's going on and what needs to be done in order to broaden some of this experience to other GI cancers. Dr. Chloe Atreya: Yeah, and I will say that there are gaps even for colorectal cancer. So right now, some of the authors on the article are collaborating on a textbook chapter for the Society for Integrative Oncology. And so, we're again examining the evidence specifically for colorectal cancer and are in agreement that the level of evidence specific to colorectal cancer is not as high as it is for all patients with adult cancers. And so even colorectal cancer we need to study more.  Just as there are different phases of cancer where treatments may need to be tailored, we also may need to tailor our treatments for different cancer types. And that includes what symptoms the patients are commonly experiencing and how intense the treatment is, and also the duration of treatment. Those are factors that can influence which modalities may be most important or most applicable to a given individual. Dr. Nate Pennell: So, a lot of this sounds fantastic. It sounds like things that a lot of patients would really appreciate working into their care. Your article focused a little bit on some of the logistics of providing this type of care, including group medical visits, multidisciplinary clinics staffed by multiple types of clinicians, including APPs and psychologists, and talked about the sustainability of this in terms of increasing the uptake of guideline-based integrative oncology. Talk a little bit more about both at your institution, I guess, and the overall health system and how this might be both sustainable and perhaps how we broaden this out to patients outside of places like UCSF. Dr. Chloe Atreya: Yes, that's a major focus of our research effort. A lot of comprehensive cancer centers and other places where patients are receiving care, people may have access to dietitians, which is really important and nutritionists. In the article we also provide resources for working with exercise therapists and those are people who may be working remotely and can help people, for instance, who may be in, in rural areas. And then our focus with the mind-body practices in particular has been on group medical visits. And this grew out of, again, my ‘being present' pilot studies where we were showing some benefit. But then when the grant ends, there isn't a way to continue to deliver this care. And so, we were asking ourselves, you know, is there a way to make this sustainable? And group medical visits have been used in other settings, and they've been working really well at our institution and other institutions are now taking them up as well. And this is a way that in this case it's me and many of my colleagues who are delivering these, where I can see eight or ten patients at once. In my case, it's a series of four two-hour sessions delivered by telehealth. So, we're able to focus on the integrative practices in a way that's experiential. So, in the clinic I may be able to mention, you know, after we go over the CT scans, after we go over the labs and the molecular profiling, you know, may be able to say, “Hey, you know, meditation may be helpful for your anxiety,” but in the group medical visits we can actually practice meditation, we can practice chair yoga. And that's where people have that experience in their bodies of these different modalities. And the feedback that we're receiving is that that sticks much more to experience it then you have resources to continue it. And then the group is helpful both in terms of delivery, so timely and efficient care for patients. It's also building community and reducing the social isolation that many of our patients undergoing treatment for cancer experience. Dr. Nate Pennell: I think that makes perfect sense, and I'm glad you brought up telehealth as an option. I don't know how many trained integrative oncologists there are out there, but I'm going to guess this is not a huge number out there. And much like other specialties that really can improve patients' quality of life, like palliative medicine, for example, not everyone has access to a trained expert in their cancer center, and things like telemedicine and telehealth can really potentially broaden that. How do you think telehealth could help broaden the exposure of cancer patients and even practitioners of oncology to integrative medicine? Dr. Chloe Atreya: Yes, I think that telehealth is crucial for all patients with cancer to be able to receive comprehensive cancer care, no matter where they're receiving their chemotherapy or other cancer-directed treatments. So, we will routinely be including patients who live outside of San Francisco. Most of our patients live outside of San Francisco. There's no way that they could participate if they had to drive into the city again to access this. And in the group setting, it's not even safe for people who are receiving chemotherapy to meet in a group most times. And with symptoms, often people aren't feeling so well and they're able to join us on Zoom in a way that they wouldn't be able to make the visit if it was in person. And so, this has really allowed us to expand our catchment area and to include patients, in our case, in all of California. You also mentioned training, and that's also important. So, as someone who's involved in the [UCSF] Osher Collaborative, there are faculty scholars who are at universities all over the US, so I've been able to start training some of those physicians to deliver group medical visits at their sites as well via telehealth. Dr. Nate Pennell: I'm glad we were able to make a plug for that. We need our political leadership to continue to support reimbursement for telehealth because it really does bring access to so many important elements of health care to patients who really struggle to travel to tertiary care centers. And their local cancer center can be quite a distance away.  So, sticking to the theme of training, clinician education and resources are really crucial to continue to support the uptake of integrative oncology in comprehensive cancer care. Where do you think things stand today in terms of clinician education and professional development in integrative oncology. Dr. Chloe Atreya: It's growing. Our medical students now are receiving training in integrative medicine, and making a plug for the Educational Book, I was really happy that ASCO let us have a table that's full of hyperlinks. So that's not typical for an article. Usually, you have to go to the reference list, but I really wanted to make it practical and accessible to people, both the resources that can be shared with patients that are curated and selected that we thought were of high-quality examples for patients. At the bottom of that table also are training resources for clinicians, and some of those include: The Center for Mind-Body Medicine, where people can receive training in how to teach these mind-body practices; The Integrated Center for Group Medical Visits, where people can learn how to develop their own group medical visits; of course, there's the Society for Integrative Oncology; and then I had just mentioned the Osher Collaborative Faculty Fellowship. Dr. Nate Pennell: Oh, that is fantastic. And just looking through, I mean, this article is really a fantastic resource both of the evidence base behind all of the elements that we've discussed today. Actually, the table that you mentioned with all of the direct hyperlinks to the resources is fantastic. Even recommendations for specific dietary changes after GI cancer diagnosis. So, I highly recommend everyone read the full paper after they have listened to the podcast today.  Before we wrap up, is there anything that we didn't get a chance to discuss that you wanted to make sure our listeners are aware of? Dr. Chloe Atreya: One thing that I did want to bring up is the disparities that exist in access to high quality symptom management care. So, patients who are racial and ethnic minorities, particularly our black and Latinx patients, the evidence shows that they aren't receiving the same degree of symptom management care as non-Hispanic White patients. And that is part of what may be leading to some of the disparities in cancer outcomes. So, if symptoms are poorly managed, it's harder for patients to stay with the treatment, and integrative oncology is one way to try to, especially with telehealth, this is a way to try to improve symptom management for all of our patients to help improve both their quality of life and their cancer outcomes. Dr. Nate Pennell: Well, Dr. Atreya, it's been great speaking with you today and thank you for joining me on the ASCO Education: By the Book Podcast and thank you for all of your work in advancing integrative oncology for GI cancers and beyond. Dr. Chloe Atreya: Thank you, Dr. Pennell. It's been a pleasure speaking with you. Dr. Nate Pennell: And thank you to all of our listeners who joined us today. You'll find a link to the article discussed today in the transcript of the episode. We hope you'll join us again for more insightful views on topics you'll be hearing at the Education Sessions from ASCO meetings throughout the year and our deep dives on approaches that are shaping modern oncology. Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate, educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement. Follow today's speakers:    Dr. Nathan Pennell   @n8pennell  @n8pennell.bsky.social  Dr. Chloe Atreya  Follow ASCO on social media:    @ASCO on X (formerly Twitter)    ASCO on Bluesky   ASCO on Facebook    ASCO on LinkedIn    Disclosures:   Dr. Nate Pennell:       Consulting or Advisory Role: AstraZeneca, Lilly, Cota Healthcare, Merck, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Genentech, Amgen, G1 Therapeutics, Pfizer, Boehringer Ingelheim, Viosera, Xencor, Mirati Therapeutics, Janssen Oncology, Sanofi/Regeneron      Research Funding (Institution): Genentech, AstraZeneca, Merck, Loxo, Altor BioScience, Spectrum Pharmaceuticals, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Jounce Therapeutics, Mirati Therapeutics, Heat Biologics, WindMIL, Sanofi   Dr. Chloe Atreya: Consulting or Advisory Role: Roche Genentech, Agenus Research Funding (Institution): Novartis, Merck, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Guardant Health, Gossamer Bio, Erasca, Inc.

In this special episode, Sam and Lex discuss Loxo's Shape the Future campaign, which celebrates the pivotal role recruiters play in shaping candidate careers and our collective future. As part of this campaign, the team made a Buzzfeed-style quiz to determine which "recruiter archetype" you are, based on some iconic figures throughout history. On today's episode, Sam takes the quiz live. Take the quiz yourself to determine your own archetype — and send us an email with your result at podcast@loxo.co if you want a cool sticker with your archetype on it! Take the quizChapters:00:00 - Setting the stage for recruiter innovation02:20 - Defining your impact: the future-shaping recruiter types05:44 - Uncovering recruiter profiles: a practical example18:00 - How we developed the recruiter architect assessment23:40 - Explore the 'shape the future' initiative for recruitersExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this Tactical Tuesday episode, Sam and Vivien discuss one simple move that top Loxo users employ: post placement outreach. They explore effective strategies for engaging with both candidates and hiring managers through regular check-ins — during the first week, month, and year of a candidate's placement — as well as the role of automation in streamlining these processes. Ultimately: consistent outreach not only enhances candidate experience but also opens doors for new business opportunities through referrals and expanded accounts.Chapters:00:00 - Tactical Tuesday: Mastering post-placement strategy03:16 - Keeping candidates warm: The art of the status update05:47 - Let automation handle interview logistics: Focus on talent06:59 - Bonus insights: Elevating your candidate screening effectiveness09:07 - Implementing effective post-placement automation workflows10:53 - Unlock referrals and expand accounts with automated follow-upExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this episode, Sam is joined by Lauren Price Adams, Director of Recruitment at Career Innovator — a 100% talent partner. Career Innovator is known for their human-centric approach, so it only made sense for us to dig into the ins & outs of relationships in recruitment — on both the candidate and client sides. They also dig into: Job fit versus job match, proactive recruitment strategies, and the significance of building trust with clients. Along the way, Lauren shares insights on how Career Innovator approaches recruitment differently, focusing on unique candidate engagement and leveraging technology to enhance their processes.Long story short: The conversation highlights the value of personal relationships in recruitment and the need for recruiters to embrace change and innovation in their practices. It's a must-listen! Chapters:00:00 - Meet Lauren Price Adams: Architect of human-centric recruiting03:16 - Moving beyond keywords: Why job fit isn't the same as job match06:20 - When strategy shifted: Embracing a people-focused approach08:43 - Putting theory into practice: How skill-based hiring works11:34 - The art of building deep trust and partnership with clients13:28 - Case studies: Applying unique engagement strategies in practice19:42 - How RecTech can empower, not replace, recruiter connections24:05 - Effectively championing your candidates to hiring managers26:29 - Lauren Price Adams's parting advice for future-focused recruitersExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this Tactical Tuesday episode, Sam and Vivien discuss the often daunting topic of... Data migration in recruitment. They explore the emotional challenges associated with data migration, the importance of reevaluating what data is truly necessary, and best practices for ensuring a smooth transition to a new ATS.The biggest takeaway? User adoption is everything — and the early stages of migrating to a new platform can make or break you. Creating a training and onboarding experience that builds buy-in and encourages team members to adhere to best practices can be your winning formula. Explore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

On the inaugural episode of ASCO Education: By the Book, Dr. Nathan Pennell and Dr. Don Dizon share reflections on the evolution of the ASCO Educational Book, its global reach, and the role of its new companion podcast to further shine a spotlight on the issues shaping the future of modern oncology. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Nathan Pennell: Hello, I'm Dr. Nate Pennell, welcoming you to the first episode of our new podcast, ASCO Education: By the Book. The podcast will feature engaging discussions between editors and authors from the ASCO Educational Book. Each month, you'll hear nuanced views on key topics in oncology featured in Education Sessions at ASCO meetings, as well as some deep dives on the advances shaping modern oncology. Although I am honored to serve as the editor-in-chief (EIC) of the ASCO Educational Book, in my day job, I am the co-director of the Cleveland Clinic Lung Cancer Program and vice chair for clinical research for the Taussig Cancer Center here in Cleveland. I'm delighted to kick off our new podcast with a discussion featuring the Ed Book's previous editor-in-chief. Dr. Don Dizon is a professor of medicine and surgery at Brown University and works as a medical oncologist specializing in breast and pelvic malignancies at Lifespan Cancer Institute in Rhode Island. Dr. Dizon also serves as the vice chair for membership and accrual at the SWOG Cancer Research Network. Don, it's great to have you here for our first episode of ASCO Education: By the Book. Dr. Don Dizon: Really nice to be here and to see you again, my friend. Dr. Nathan Pennell: This was the first thing I thought of when we were kicking off a podcast that I thought we would set the stage for our hopefully many, many listeners to learn a little bit about what the Ed Book used to be like, how it has evolved over the last 14 years or so since we both started here and where it's going. You started as editor-in-chief in 2012, is that right? Dr. Don Dizon: Oh, boy. I believe that is correct, yes. I did two 5-year stints as EIC of the Educational Book, so that sounds about right. Although you're aging me very clearly on this podcast. Dr. Nathan Pennell: I had to go back in my emails to see if I could figure out when we started on this because we've been working on it for some time. Start out a little bit by telling me what do you remember about the Ed Book from back in the day when you were applying to be editor-in-chief and thinking about the Ed Book. What was it like at that time? Dr. Don Dizon: You know, it's so interesting to think about it.  Ten years ago, we were both in a very different place in our careers, and I remember when the Ed Book position came up, I had been writing a column for ASCO. I had done some editorial activities with other journals for sure, but what always struck me was it was very unclear how one was chosen to be a part of the education program at ASCO. And then it was very unclear how those faculty were then selected to write a paper for the Educational Book. And it was back in the day when the Educational Book was completely printed. So, there was this book that was cherished among American fellows in oncology. And it was one that, when I was newly attending, and certainly two or three years before the editor's position came up, it was one that I referenced all the time. So, it was a known commodity for many of us. And there was a certain sense of selectivity about who was invited to write in it. And it wasn't terribly transparent either. So, when the opportunity to apply for editor-in-chief of the Educational Book came up, I had already been doing so much work for ASCO. I had been on the planning committees and served in many roles across the organization, and editing was something I found I enjoyed in other work. So, I decided to put my name in the ring with the intention of sort of bringing the book forward, getting it indexed, for example, so that there was this credit that was more than just societal credit at ASCO. This ended up being something that was referenced and acknowledged as an important paper through PubMed indexing. And then also to provide it as a space where we could be more transparent about who was being invited and broadening the tent as to who could participate as an author in the Ed Book. Dr. Nathan Pennell: It's going to be surprising to many of our younger listeners to learn that the Educational Book used to be just this giant, almost like a brick. I mean, it was this huge tome of articles from the Education Sessions that you got when you got your meeting abstracts book at the annual meeting. And you can always see people on the plane on the way out of Chicago with their giant books. Dr. Don Dizon: Yes. Dr. Nathan Pennell: That added lots of additional weight to the plane, I'm sure, on the way out. Dr. Don Dizon: And it was not uncommon for us to be sitting at an airport, and people would be reading those books with highlighters. Dr. Nathan Pennell: I fondly remember being a fellow and coming up and the Ed Book was always really important to me, so I was excited. We'll also let the listeners in on that. I also applied to be the original editor-in-chief of the Ed Book back in 2012, although I was very junior and did not have any real editorial experience. I think I may have been section editor for The Oncologist at that point. And I had spoken to Dr. Ramaswamy Govindan at WashU who had been the previous editor-in-chief about applying and he was like, “Oh yeah. You should absolutely try that out.” And then when Dr. Dizon was chosen, I was like, “Oh, well. I guess I didn't get it.” And then out of the blue I got a call asking me to join as the associate editor, which I was really always very thankful for that opportunity. Dr. Don Dizon: Well, it was a highly fruitful collaboration, I think, between you and I when we first started. I do remember taking on the reins and sort of saying, “You know, this is our vision of what we want to do.” But then just working with the authors, which we did, about how to construct their papers and what we were looking for, all of that is something I look back really fondly on. Dr. Nathan Pennell: I think it was interesting too because neither one of us had really a lot of transparency into how things worked when we started. We kind of made it up a little bit as we went along. We wanted to get all of the faculty, or at least as many of them as possible contributing to these. And we would go to the ASCO Education Committee meeting and kind of talk about the Ed Book, and we were thinking about, you know, how could we get people to submit. So, at the time it wasn't PubMed indexed. Most people, I think, submitted individual manuscripts just from their talk, which could be anywhere from full length review articles to very brief manuscripts. Dr. Don Dizon: Sometimes it was their slides with like a couple of comments on it. Dr. Nathan Pennell: And some of them were almost like a summary of the talk. Yeah, exactly. And so sort of making that a little more uniform. There was originally an honorarium attached, which went away, but I think PubMed indexing was probably the biggest incentive for people to join. I remember that was one of the first things you really wanted to get. Dr. Don Dizon Yeah. And, you know, it was fortuitous. I'd like to take all the credit for it, but ASCO was very forward thinking with Dr. Ramaswamy and the conversations about going to PubMed with this had preceded my coming in. We knew what we needed to do to get this acknowledged, which was really strengthening the peer review so that these papers could meet the bar to get on PubMed. But you know, within the first, what, two or three years, Nate, of us doing this, we were able to get this accepted. And now it is. If you look at what PubMed did for us, it not only increased the potential of who was going to access it, but for, I think the oncology community, it allowed people access to papers by key opinion leaders that was not blocked by a paywall. And I thought that was just super important at the time. Social media was something, but it wasn't what it is now. But anybody could access these manuscripts and it's still the case today. Dr. Nathan Pennell: I think it's hard to overstate how important that was. People don't realize this, but the Ed Book is really widely accessed, especially outside the US as well. And a lot of people who can't attend the meeting to get the print, well, the once print, book could actually get access to essentially the education session from the annual meeting without having to fly all the way to the US to attend. Now, you know, we have much better virtual meeting offerings now and whatnot. But at the time it was pretty revolutionary to be able to do that. Dr. Don Dizon: Yeah, and you know, it's so interesting when I think back to, you know, this sort of evolution to a fully online publication of the Ed Book. It was really some requests from international participants of the annual meeting who really wanted to continue to see this in print. At that time, it was important to recognize that access to information was not uniform across the world. And people really wanted that print edition, maybe not for themselves, but so that access in more rural areas or where access in the broadband networks were not established that they still could access the book. I think things have changed now. We were able, I think, in your tenure, to see it fully go online. But even I just remember that being a concern as we went forward. Dr. Nathan Pennell: Yeah, we continued with the print book that was available if people asked for it, but apparently few enough people asked for it that it moved fully online. One of the major advantages of being fully online now is of course, it does allow us to publish kind of in real time as the manuscripts come out in the months leading up to the meeting, which has been, I think, a huge boon because it can build momentum for the Education Sessions coming in. People, you know, really look forward to it. Dr. Don Dizon: Yeah, that was actually a concern, you know, when we were phasing out Ed Book and going to this continuous publication model where authors actually had the ability to sort of revise their manuscript and that would be automatically uploaded. You had a static manuscript that was fully printed, and it was no longer an accurate one. And we did have the ability to fix it. And it just goes to show exactly what you're saying. This idea that these are living papers was really an important thing that ASCO embraced quite early, I think. Dr. Nathan Pennell: And with the onset of PubMed indexing, the participation from faculty skyrocketed and almost within a couple of years was up to the vast majority of sessions and faculty participating. Now I think people really understand that this is part of the whole process. But at the time I remember writing out on my slides in all caps, “THIS IS AN EXPECTATION.” And that's about the best word I could give because I asked if we could make people do it, and they were like, no, you can't make people do it. Dr. Don Dizon: So right.  Actually, I don't think people are aware of the work on the back end every year when I was on as EIC, Nate and myself, and then subsequently Dr. Hope Rugo would have these informational sessions with the education faculty and we would tout the Ed Book, tout the expectation, tout it was PubMed indexed and tout multidisciplinary participation. So, we were not seeing four manuscripts reflecting one session. You know, this encouragement to really embrace multidisciplinary care was something that very early on we introduced and really encouraged people not to submit perspective manuscripts, but to really get them in and then harmonize the paper so that it felt like it was, you know, one voice. Dr. Nathan Pennell: I consider that after PubMed indexing, the next major change to the Ed Book, that really made it a better product and that was moving from, you know, just these short individual single author manuscripts to single session combined manuscript that had multiple perspectives and topics, really much more comprehensive review articles. And I don't even remember what the impetus was for that, but it was really a success. Dr. Don Dizon: Yeah, I mean, I think in the beginning it was more of a challenge, I think, because people were really not given guidance on what these papers were supposed to look like. So, we were seeing individual manuscripts come forward. Looking back, it really foreshadowed the importance of multidisciplinary management. But at the time, it was really more about ensuring that people were leaving the session with a singular message of what to do when you're in clinic again. And the goal was to have the manuscripts reflect that sort of consensus view of a topic that was coming in. There were certain things that people still argued would not fit in a multidisciplinary manuscript. You know, if you have someone who's writing and whose entire talk was on the pathology of thyroid cancer. Another topic was on survivorship after thyroid cancer. It was hard to sort of get those two to interact and cover what was being covered. So, we were still getting that. But you're right, at the end of my tenure and into yours, there were far fewer of those individual manuscripts. Dr. Nathan Pennell: And I think it's even made it easier to write because now, you know, you just have to write a section of a manuscript and not put together an entire review. So, it has helped with getting people on board. Dr. Don Dizon: Well, the other thing I thought was really interesting about the process is when you're invited to do an Education Session at ASCO, you're either invited as a faculty speaker or as the chair of the session. And the responsibility of the chair is to ensure that it flows well and that the talks are succinct based on what the agenda or the objectives were as defined by the education committee for that specific group. But that was it. So really being named “Chair” was sort of an honor, an honorific. It really didn't come with responsibility. So, we use the Ed Book as a way to say, “As chair of the session, it is your responsibility to ensure A, a manuscript comes to me, but B, that the content of that paper harmonizes and is accurate.” And it was very rare, but Nate, I think we got dragged into a couple of times where the accuracy of the manuscript was really called into question by the chair. And those were always very, very tricky discussions because everyone that gets invited to ASCO is a recognized leader in their field. Some of us, especially, I would probably say, dating back 10 years from today, the data behind Standards of Care were not necessarily evidence-based. So, there were a lot of opinion-based therapies. You know, maybe not so much in the medical side, but certainly some of it. But when you went to, you know, surgical treatments and maybe even radiotherapy treatments, it was really based on, “My experience at my center is this and this is why I do what I do.” But those kinds of things ended up being some of the more challenging things to handle as an editor. Dr. Nathan Pennell: And those are the– I'll use “fun” in a broad sense. You know, every once in a while, you get an article where it really does take a lot of hands-on work from the editor to work with the author to try to revise it and make it a suitable academic manuscript. But you know what? I can't think, at least in recent years, of any manuscripts that we turned down. They just sometimes needed a little TLC. Dr. Don Dizon: Yeah. And I think the other important thing it reminds me of is how great it was that I wasn't doing this by myself. Because it was so great to be able to reach out to you and say, “Can you give me your take on this paper?” Or, “Can you help me just join a conference call with the authors to make sure that we're on the same page?” And then on the rare example where we were going to reject a paper, it was really important that we, as the editorial team, and I include our ASCO shepherder, through the whole process. We had to all agree that this was not salvageable. Fortunately, it happened very rarely. But I've got to say, not doing this job alone was one of the more important facets of being the EIC of ASCO's Educational Book. Dr. Nathan Pennell: Well, it's nice to hear you say that. I definitely felt that this was a partnership, you know, it was a labor of love. So, I want to go to what I consider sort of the third major pillar of the changes to the Ed Book during your tenure, and that was the introduction of a whole new kind of manuscript. So up to, I don't know, maybe seven or eight years ago, all the articles were authored just by people who were presenting at the Annual Meeting. And then you had an idea to introduce invited manuscripts. So take me through that. Dr. Don Dizon: Yeah, well, you know, again, it went to this sort of, what can people who are being asked to sort of lead ASCO for that year, what can they demonstrate as sort of a more tangible contribution to the Society and to oncology in general? And I think that was the impetus to use the Ed Book for everyone who was in a leadership position to make their mark. That said, I was here, and I was either president of the society or I was Education Program Chair or Scientific Program Chair, and they got to select an article type that was not being covered in the annual meeting and suggest the authors and work with those authors to construct a manuscript. Never did any one of those folks suggest themselves, which I thought was fascinating. They didn't say, “I want to be the one to write this piece,” because this was never meant to be a presidential speech or a commemorative speech or opportunity for them as leaders. But we wanted to ensure that whatever passion they had within oncology was represented in the book. And again, it was this sort of sense of, I want everyone to look at the Ed Book and see themselves in it and see what they contributed. And that was really important for those who were really shepherding each Annual Meeting each year for ASCO that they had the opportunity to do that. And I was really pleased that leadership really took to that idea and were very excited about bringing ideas and also author groups into the Educational Book who would not have had the opportunity otherwise. I thought that was just really nice. It was about inclusiveness and just making sure that people had the opportunity to say, “If you want to participate, we want you to participate.” Dr. Nathan Pennell: Yeah, I agree. I think the ASCO leadership jumped on this and continues to still really appreciate the opportunity to be able to kind of invite someone on a topic that's meaningful to them. I think we've tried to work in things that incorporate the presidential theme each year in our invited manuscript, so it really allows them to put kind of a stamp on the flavor of each edition. And the numbers reflect that these tend to be among our more highly read articles as well. Dr. Don Dizon: You know, looking back on what we did together, that was something I'm really, really quite proud of, that we were able to sort of help the Educational Book evolve that way. Dr. Nathan Pennell: I agree. You brought up briefly a few minutes ago about social media and its role over time. I think when we started in 2012, I had just joined Twitter now X in 2011, and I think we were both sort of early adopters in the social media. Do you feel like social media has had a role in the growth of the Ed Book or is this something that you think we can develop further? Dr. Don Dizon: When we were doing Ed Book together, professional social media was actually a quite identified space. You know, we were all on the same platform. We analyzed what the outcomes were on that platform and our communities gathered on that platform. So, it was a really good place to highlight what we were publishing, especially as we went to continuous publishing.  I don't remember if it was you or me, but we even started asking our authors for a tweet and those tweets needed work. It was you. It was you or I would actually lay in these tweets to say, “Yeah, we need to just, you know, work on this.” But I think it's harder today. There's no one preferred platform. Alternate platforms are still evolving. So, I think there are opportunities there. The question is: Is that opportunity meaningful enough for the Ed Book to demonstrate its return on an investment, for example? What I always thought about social media, and it's still true today, is that it will get eyes on whatever you're looking at far beyond who you intended to see it. So, you know, your tweets regarding a phase 3 clinical trial in lung cancer, which were so informative, were reaching me, who was not a lung oncologist who doesn't even see lung cancer and getting me more interested in finding that article and more and more pointing to the Educational Book content that speaks to that piece, you know. And I think coupling an impression of the data, associating that with something that is freely accessed is, I think, a golden opportunity not only for our colleagues, but also for anyone who's interested in a topic. Whether you are diagnosed with that cancer or you are taking care of someone with that cancer, or you heard about that cancer, there are people who would like to see information that is relevant and embedded and delivered by people who know what they're talking about. And I think our voices on social media are important because of it. And I think that's where the contribution is. So, if we had to see what the metric was for any social media efforts, it has to be more of the click rates, not just by ASCO members, but the click rates across societies and across countries. Dr. Nathan Pennell: Yeah, social media is, I mean, obviously evolving quite a bit in the last couple of years. But I do know that in terms the alt metrics for the track access through social media and online, the ones that are shared online by the authors, by the Ed Book team, do seem to get more attention. I think a lot of people don't like to just sit with a print journal anymore or an email table of contents for specific journals. People find these articles that are meaningful to them through their network and oftentimes that is online on social media. Dr. Don Dizon: Yes, 100%. And you know what I think we should encourage people to do is look at the source. And if the Ed Book becomes a source of information, I think that will be a plus to the conversations in our world. We're still dealing with a place where, depending on who sponsored the trial, whether it was an industry-sponsored trial, whether it was NCI sponsored or sponsored by the National Institutes of Health, for example, access to the primary data sets may or may not be available across the world, but the Ed Book is. And if the Ed Book can summarize that data and use terms and words that are accessible no matter what your grade level of education is. If we can explain the graphs and the figures in a way that people can actually easily more understand it. If there's a way that we structure our conversations in the Ed Book so that the plethora of inclusion/exclusion criteria are summarized and simplified, then I think we can achieve a place where good information becomes more accessible, and we can point to a summary of the source data in places where the source is not available. Dr. Nathan Pennell: One of the other things that I continue to be surprised at how popular these podcasts are. And that gives you an opportunity pretty much the opposite. Instead of sort of a nugget that directs you to the source material, you've got a more in-depth discussion of the manuscript. And so, I'm delighted that we have our own podcast. For many years, the Ed Book would sort of do a sort of a “Weird Al takeover” of the ASCO Daily News Podcast for a couple of episodes around the Annual Meeting, and I think those were always really popular enough that we were able to argue that we deserved our own podcast. And I'm really looking forward to having these in-depth discussions with authors. Dr. Don Dizon: It's an amazing evolution of where the Ed Book has gone, right? We took it from print only, societally only, to something that is now accessed worldwide via PubMed. We took it from book to fully online print. And now I think making the content live is a natural next step. So, I applaud you for doing the podcast and giving people an opportunity actually to discuss what their article discusses. And if there's a controversial point, giving them the freedom and the opportunity to sort of give more nuanced views on what may not be something that there's 100% consensus over. Dr. Nathan Pennell: Yes. Well, I hope other people enjoy these as well. Just want to highlight a few of the things that have happened just in the couple years since you stepped down as editor-in-chief. One of them, and I don't know if you noticed, but last year we started adding manuscripts from the ASCO thematic meetings, so ASCO GI and ASCO GU, something we had certainly talked about in the past, but had lacked bandwidth to really do. And they seem to be pretty widely accessed. Dr. Don Dizon: That's fantastic. Yes, I do remember talking about the coverage of the thematic meetings and you're right, this takes a long time to sort of concentrate on the Annual Meeting. It may seem like everything happens in the span of like eight weeks. Dr. Nathan Pennell: It does feel like that sometimes. Dr. Don Dizon: Right? But this is actually something that starts a year before, once the education program is set. We're in the room when they set it. But then it's really chasing down manuscripts and then making sure that they're peer reviewed because the peer review is still really important, and then making sure that any revisions are made before it's finalized and goes to press. That is a many months process. So, when we're trying to introduce, “Oh, we should also do ASCO GU or-,” the question was, how do you want to do that given this very, very involved process going forward? So, I'm glad you were able to figure it out. Dr. Nathan Pennell: Well, it's challenging. I don't think people realize quite the compressed timeline for these. You know, the Education Session and authors and invited faculty are picked in the fall, and then basically you have to start turning in your manuscripts in February, March of the following year. And so, it's a really tight turnaround for this. When we talk about the ASCO thematic meetings, it's an even tighter window. Dr. Don Dizon: Right, exactly. Dr. Nathan Pennell: And so, it's challenging to get that moving, but I was really, really proud that we were able to pull that off. Dr. Don Dizon: Well, congratulations again. And I think that is a necessary step, because so much of what's going on in the various disease management sites is only covered cursorily through the Annual Meeting itself. I mean, there's just so much science breaking at any one time that I think if we want to comprehensively catalog the Year in Review in oncology, it kind of behooves us to do that. Dr. Nathan Pennell: Some other things that are coming up because we now have manuscripts that are going to be coming in year-round, and just to kind of make it easier on the editorial staff, we're going to be forming an editorial board. And in addition to our pool of reviewers who get ASCO points, please feel free to go online to the ASCO volunteer portal and sign up if you are interested in participating. So, moving forward, I'm really excited to see where things are going to go. Dr. Don Dizon: Well, that's great. That's great. And I do remember talking about whether or not we needed to have an editorial board. At least when I was there, having this carried by three people was always better than having it carried by one person. And I think as you expand the potential for submissions, it will be very helpful to have that input for sure. And then it gives another opportunity for more members to get involved in ASCO as well. Dr. Nathan Pennell: Absolutely. People want involvement, and so happy to provide that. Dr. Don Dizon: Yes. Dr. Nathan Pennell: Is there anything we didn't cover that you would like to mention before we wrap up? Dr. Don Dizon: Well, I will say this, that ASCO and through its publications not only has had this real emphasis on multidisciplinary management of cancers, especially where it was relevant, but it also always had a stand to ensure representation was front and center and who wrote for us. And I think every president, every chair that I've worked with naturally embraced that idea of representation. And I think it has been a distinct honor to say that during my tenure as EIC, we have always had a plethora of voices, of authors from different countries, of genders, that have participated in the construction of those books. And it stands as a testament that we are a global community and we will always be one. Dr. Nathan Pennell: Well, thank you for that. And I'm happy to continue that as we move forward. Well, Don, thank you. It's been great speaking with you. You played such a pivotal role in the Ed Book's evolution and I'm so glad you were able to join me for our inaugural episode. Dr. Don Dizon: Well, I'm just tickled that you asked me to be your first guest. Thank you so much, Nate. Dr. Nathan Pennell: And I also want to thank our listeners for joining us today. We hope you'll join us again for more insightful views on topics you'll be hearing at the Education Sessions from ASCO meetings throughout the year, as well as our periodic deep dives on advances that are shaping modern oncology. Have a great day. Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement. Follow today's speakers:   Dr. Nathan Pennell  @n8pennell @n8pennell.bsky.social   Dr. Don Dizon @drdondizon.bsky.social  Follow ASCO on social media:   @ASCO on X (formerly Twitter)   ASCO on Bluesky  ASCO on Facebook   ASCO on LinkedIn   Disclosures:  Dr. Nathan Pennell:      Consulting or Advisory Role: AstraZeneca, Lilly, Cota Healthcare, Merck, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Genentech, Amgen, G1 Therapeutics, Pfizer, Boehringer Ingelheim, Viosera, Xencor, Mirati Therapeutics, Janssen Oncology, Sanofi/Regeneron     Research Funding (Inst): Genentech, AstraZeneca, Merck, Loxo, Altor BioScience, Spectrum Pharmaceuticals, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Jounce Therapeutics, Mirati Therapeutics, Heat Biologics, WindMIL, Sanofi  Dr. Don Dizon: Stock and Other Ownership Interests: Midi, Doximity Honoraria: UpToDate, American Cancer Society Consulting or Advisory Role: AstraZeneca, Clovis Oncology, Kronos Bio, Immunogen Research Funding (Institution): Bristol-Myers Squibb          

In this Tactical Tuesday episode, Sam and Vivien talk about a powerful question that you can use to instantly improve your candidate (and client) outreach efforts. That question? "Why did you respond to this message?" Sam and Vivien explain why it's so important to understand what prompts candidates and hiring managers to engage — and open-ended questions can give you the feedback you need to improve your efforts.Chapters:00:00 - Episode kickoff: Outreach mastery for recruiters02:01 - Instantly improve your recruiting outreach with one question05:56 - Enhancing your recruiting reach: Practical tipsExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this episode, Sam is joined by Benjamin Mena, Managing Partner at Select Source Solutions and host of The Elite Recruiter Podcast. Throughout the conversation, Sam & Ben cover all of the bases — discussing the significant changes in recruitment over the past two years, particularly focusing on the impact of AI and technology.Together, they explore:The ideal tech stack for modern recruitersThe importance of proactive talent pipeliningThe challenges of maintaining clean databasesHow AI is going to make it easier to focus on candidatesWhy differentiation is more important now than ever beforeAll in all, the discussion highlights the need for integration and efficiency in recruitment processes —  emphasizing the enduring value of relationships, even in this tech-heavy world we're living in. Chapters:00:00 - Recruitment redefined: insights from industry leaders05:12 - Building a robust talent pipeline: strategic proactive recruiting16:50 - Essential recruiter tech stack: tools for modern efficiency27:00 - Leveraging AI in recruiting: enhancing efficiency and focusing on people34:38 - Personalizing recruitment: the importance of agency personality37:20 - AI in action: leveraging LLMs and machine learning in talent acquisition45:28 - Recruitment's evolution: parting insights for modern agenciesExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

Understatement of the year: recruitment has changed a lot, and will continue to.With that in mind, for this Tactical Tuesday episode, Sam and Vivien discuss the evolving landscape of recruitment —  emphasizing the need for us to adapt our communication strategies in order to engage candidates and clients effectively. Differentiation is the name of the game — and with our help, you'll be on your way to implementing strategies that help your outreach stand out. Chapters:00:00 - Navigating recruitment's new landscape04:07 - Recruitment trends over the years09:45 - Stand out: recruitment differentiation strategies19:50 - Final recruitment advice and farewellExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

All good things must come to an end...and today brings the final episode of our 3-part series on contract recruitment. In this episode, Lex and Reegan explore some of the nuances of contract recruitment, focusing on the candidate side of the process. They discuss the importance of adapting the Most Placeable Candidate (MPC) strategy for contract roles, emphasizing the need for long-term relationships with contractors.The conversation also highlights the consultative approach recruiters need to adopt — regardless of whether they're working with contract or perm placements — providing industry insights and maintaining transparency with candidates. In short: a lot of ground gets covered in 30 minutes. Jump in! Chapters:00:00 - Launching the final contract recruitment episode04:04 - Mastering the MPC strategy in contract recruitment08:44 - Building long-term contractor relationships14:04 - Pipeline strategies for contract teams20:16 - Tech and workflows for contract recruitment success24:40 - Essential automations for contract recruiting30:35 - Closing advice for contract recruitment successExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In today's episode, Sam and Vivien dive into the ~fascinating~ world of Boolean operators, discussing their importance in recruitment — and how to effectively use them to enhance candidate sourcing. Throughout the conversation, they explore both advanced and basic techniques, emphasizing the need for recruiters to adapt their search strategies to find the best candidates. Different candidates may express their skills and experiences using different terminology — which is why using Boolean effectively can help ensure you find the best possible match.Chapters:00:00 - Welcome to Boolean Mastery: Sourcing Top Talent02:30 - Circumflex Power: Ranking Variables in Boolean Searches06:06 - Logic in Sourcing: Harnessing AND, OR, and Parenthesis08:54 - Getting Started with Boolean: Practical Advice for RecruitersExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

Great news: it's time for part 2 of our 3-part series on contract recruitment featuring Loxo's very own Reegan Coleman! In this episode, Lex and Reegan delve into the intricacies of contract recruitment — focusing on how to structure contracts effectively, the differences between W-2 and 1099 contracts, and the importance of maintaining strong relationships with contractors.This conversation touches on everything from the long-term benefits of contract recruitment, to the nitty-gritty details, to the role of technology & automation, retention strategies, and beyond. In short? You don't want to miss it. Don't forget to check out the first episode in this series, too!Chapters:00:00 - Trending Topics: Advanced Contract Recruitment Strategies03:40 - The Anatomy of a Contract: Best Practices for Recruiters10:38 - Contract Types Explained: Navigating W-2 and 109914:13 - From Candidate to Client: Building Long-Term Contract Relationships23:35 - Nurturing Relationships: Essential for Contract Recruitment28:08 - Final Tips: Mastering the Contract Talent MarketExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this Tactical Tuesday episode, Sam and Vivien discuss the intricacies of reference checks in the recruitment process — from when and how to effectively use them, to the importance of context in evaluating references, best practices for conducting them, and beyond.The conversation emphasizes:The types of references to considerThe need for personal interaction over surveysKey questions to ask to ensure a comprehensive understanding of a candidate's fitChapters:00:00 - Tactical Tuesday: Effective Reference Checking Techniques04:32 - When to Seek References: Optimizing Your Recruitment Process08:36 - Asking the Right Questions: Reference Check Best Practices15:33 - Quick Tips for Reference Check SuccessExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this Trending Topics episode, Lex is joined by Reegan Coleman, a Strategic Account Manager at Loxo, to discuss the evolving landscape of contract recruitment. We've talked a lot on this podcast about the rise in freelance talent and the gig economy — so we figured it was time to talk about how recruiters can structure their business in a way that supports this shift. Part 1 of a three-part series, in this episode we explore the benefits of contract recruitment for both businesses and candidates, the industries that are best suited for this model, and the critical role of technology and AI in enhancing recruitment processes. Stay tuned for parts 2 & 3, where we'll get more into the nitty-gritty of contract recruitment! Chapters:00:00 - Exploring the Gig Economy: Contract Recruitment Insights05:08 - Contract Talent Advantages: A Win-Win for All Parties14:07- Targeting Contract Talent: Key Industries and Niches21:38 - Digital Tools for Contract Talent: Efficiency and Growth27:55 - Enhancing Sourcing Efficiency: Leveraging AI in Contract Hiring30:45 - Final Insights: Navigating the Modern Contract Talent MarketExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this Tactical Tuesday episode, Sam and Vivien discuss the intricacies of candidate evaluation — especially striking the right balance between charisma and true fit. Structuring your interviews in a specific way can help you avoid getting too wrapped up in a candidate's charm, so that you can make balanced, informed decisions about who is truly the best fit for the role. This conversation will give you the tips you need to get a good process in place — from interview techniques to ways to prime hiring managers to make well-rounded decisions, too. Chapters:00:00 - Tactical Tuesday: Evaluating Candidates Beyond Charisma04:20 - Beyond Charisma: Critical Factors in Candidate Assessment06:50 - Applying Evaluation Strategies: A Practical ScenarioExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this episode, Sam is joined by Nick Poloni, president of Cascadia Search Group, to discussing the evolution of recruitment practices. They cover everything from fundamental best practices in recruitment to the impact of AI on candidate experience and the necessity of maintaining a human touch. The takeaway? Balance is everything in when it comes to modern recruitment — combining the right use of tech with human interaction & genuine connection. Nick shares his journey from corporate America to the recruitment world, emphasizing the lessons learned along the way. One of his biggest nuggets of wisdom? The fact that your attitude as a recruiter can have a major impact on the candidate's experience of job-seeking, interviewing, and even rejection. How you navigate these experiences with them can be the thing that sets great recruiters apart from good ones.Chapters:00:00 - Modern Recruitment: Balancing Tech and Human Connection02:33 - Nick Poloni's Path: Lessons Learned in Recruitment09:34 - Understanding Cascadia Search: Their Unique Approach11:33 - Human Connection vs. Automation: The Future of Recruiting15:01 - The Downsides of Easy Apply: Inbound Recruiting Challenges19:18 - Humanizing Recruitment: Practical Strategies24:40 - Approaching Rejected Candidates: Building Positive Experiences32:30 - Trust and Transparency: Essential Recruitment Practices41:50 - Final Thoughts: Balancing Tech and Human ConnectionExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

Ah, culture fit: the elusive yet all-important component in the interview process. So difficult to pin down, but so critical to making the right hire.In this Tactical Tuesday episode, Sam and Vivien explore how to effectively assess candidates not just based on their skills but their compatibility with the hiring organization's culture.The conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding the dynamics between hiring managers and candidates, the nuances of communication preferences, and the techniques for interviewing that can reveal a candidate's true potential fit within a team. As with every Tactical Tuesday episode, you can expect some practical takeaways — this time, on gauging culture fit throughout the interview process. Chapters:00:00 - Tactical Tuesday: Decoding Culture Fit in Hiring03:42 - Understanding Hiring Manager Culture Preferences for Better Matches08:47 - Extracting Culture Clues: How to Interview for True Compatibility 20:16 - Last Word of Wisdom for RecruitersExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

Buckle up, job nerds—Chad Sowash and Joel Cheesman are back with J.T. O'Donnell, serving up the week's employment chaos with a side of snark. Joann's 800 fabric havens are kaput after 80 years—no buyer, 19,000 pink slips. DOGE is slashing like it's Black Friday: 75,000 “voluntary” goodbyes, 1,000 at Veterans Affairs, 1,300 at Energy, 700 at the CDC—pundits say the total could top 100K, while Blue Origin (1,000) and Starbucks (1,100) join the layoff party, and Polywork's a December corpse. Buy or Sell: Mercor's 21-year-old Thiel babies nabbed $100M, hit a $2B valuation ... Joel's screaming "SELL" ‘cause remote work's deader than disco. Perfect's $23M AI dream promises hires while you nap; J.T.'s all "BUY" for their 44-person squad surfing the consolidation wave. Loxo's $115M talent tech flex? Joel's like, "SELL—big hype, but the founder's greener than a lime Slurpee." Indeed yanked search fields from its homepage, forcing logins—Alex Chukovski's jazzed, but Chad's cackling, “Monster 2.0, meet your doom!” And Musk's AI grading federal job essays? J.T.'s rolling her eyes—unions are raging, and it's sketchier than a back-alley job board. Laugh, cry, and listen up! Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Uncertainty in the Job Market 01:00 The Rise of Deep Fakes and Their Implications 04:08 Job Seekers' Struggles in a Changing Economy 10:17 Corporate Accountability and Leadership Failures 18:41 The Impact of Layoffs on the Workforce 23:19 The Future of Employment in an Automated World 24:09 Economic Pressures and Education Choices 27:42 The Rise of AI in Recruitment 30:12 Challenges in AI Recruitment Tools 34:20 The Future of Job Platforms 38:16 Indeed's Strategic Shift 47:21 AI's Role in Employment Decisions

The Shred is a weekly roundup of what's making headlines in the world of employment. The Shred is brought to you today by Jobcase.

Sam Kuehnle, VP of Marketing at Loxo, joins Evan Hughes and Steph Crugnola for a discussion about taking on a leadership role in Demand Creation and how to make an impact.  The discussion focuses on evolving demand generation strategies, the interplay between lead generation and demand creation, and how Sam transitioned from agency work at Refine Labs to a leadership position. Throughout, Sam offers insights into planning effective marketing strategies in a rapidly changing digital landscape.The conversation begins by exploring Sam's marketing journey, from his foundational experiences in a family-run agency to working as an account development representative in SaaS, highlighting his shift from the predictable revenue model to a demand-focused approach inspired by Chris Walker. Sam also shares invaluable advice on stakeholder management, emphasizing the necessity of aligning marketing strategies with overarching business goals. He discusses methodologies for generating quick wins, such as optimizing Google Ads and refining audience targeting, providing practical insights into sustainable marketing practices. The episode concludes with forward-thinking strategies and preparing for the future of marketing, stressing the importance of adaptability and continuous learning.Episode topics: #marketing, #leadgen, #demandgeneration, #sales, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #demandcreation ______Subscribe to Stacking Growth on Spotify and YouTubeLearn More About Refine LabsSign Up For Our NewsletterConnect with the guest:Sam KuehnleConnect with the hosts:Evan HughesSteph Crugnola

In this Tactical Tuesday episode, Sam and Vivien discuss the challenges of coordinating interviews in the recruitment process — and why keeping things moving is of the utmost importance. The conversation highlights the role technology can play in streamlining the scheduling process — and, as you can always expect from a Tactical Tuesday episode — offers practical tips for recruiters to improve their efficiency. Chapters:00:00 - Tactical Tuesday: Mastering Interview Coordination02:45 - Interview Scheduling: Pros, Cons, and Solutions07:00 - The Impact of Interview Coordination on Candidate Experience09:00 - Streamlining Interviews for Hiring Managers: Best Practices14:30 - Interview Coordination Tips: Last Word of Advice for RecruitersExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this thought-provoking episode, Loxo's CEO Matt Chambers interviews Kelli Vukelic, CEO of N2Growth, to discuss the future of executive search and recruitment agencies — with a focus on how technology is very rapidly transforming the industry. Throughout the conversation, the two will talk about everything from purpose-driven work, to how search firms can become more tech-enabled, and beyond. Matt and Kelli also dive into N2Growth's proprietary platform, Vue, which is built on Loxo's API and helps uncover talent insights that drive better decision-making. Vue allows N2Growth's clients to have real-time access to candidate information, and provides a holistic view of candidates beyond their resumes. With this in mind, Matt and Kelli also discuss how tech can help search firms develop more collaborative and strategic partnerships with their clients — positioning themselves as not just "recruiters" but true talent advisors. This episode is chock-full of wisdom from two fantastic leaders and experts in the space — as well as some practical tips for you to chew on.Chapters:00:00 - Podcast Intro04:45 - Transforming the Executive Search Industry12:16 - The Turning Point: Embracing Change14:00 - Speed and Efficiency: Why They Matter17:05 - Developing a Proprietary Recruitment Tool26:03 - Boosting Team Performance and Client Satisfaction29:48 - The Impact of Choosing the Best Recruiting Platform37:20 - Final Thoughts and FarewellExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

 Vetty, thebackground screening company announced that Jason Putnam has joined the company as CEO, effective immediately. The appointment marks a new phase in Vetty's continued expansion, with the company accelerating growth at 78 percent year over year while maintaining high customer satisfaction ratings. Putnam succeeds Reddy Karri, who will remain with the organization as an advisor. https://hrtechfeed.com/jason-putnam-named-ceo-of-vetty/ NEW YORK — Fiverr International launched a new Freelancer Equity Program that will grant shares to U.S. based top performing, eligible freelancers on the platform. https://hrtechfeed.com/fiverr-launches-equity-program-to-give-freelancers-direct-stake-in-the-business/ AUSTIN, Texas — Loxo, a talent intelligence platform and recruiting software company, today announced its closing of a growth investment led by Tritium Partners, a private equity firm focused on partnering with talented founders with the goal of building market leading companies. This significant investment ($115M) will enable Loxo to expand its market reach and further its advantage as an AI-powered recruiting platform. https://hrtechfeed.com/loxo-ats-gets-huge-private-equity-investment/ SYDNEY—-KKR, a leading global investment firm, announced the signing of definitive agreements under which funds managed by KKR will acquire a stake in Employment Hero from SEEK Investments. The SEEK Growth Fund continues to be a material investor in Employment Hero. https://hrtechfeed.com/kkr-acquires-stake-in-hrm-platform-employment-hero/ Chris Russell joining Upwage as go-to-market advisor. https://www.upwage.com/    

Gopa Iyer from MSKCC joins the show to discuss his initial results from this phase 2 trial.

In this almost-Valentine's Day Tactical Tuesday episode, Sam and Vivien discuss the significance of showing appreciation in the recruitment process — whether to clients, candidates, or colleagues.Remember this: small gestures can go a long way toward creating better relationships and improved outcomes! This conversation highlights: several practical ways to show appreciation, the impact of positive reinforcement, and how to ~show the love~ while still being the consummate professional. Explore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this Trending Topics episode, Sam and Lex discuss the emerging concept of Agentic AI — which refers to autonomous digital workers designed for specific roles.Throughout the conversation, they explore the implications of these AI agents on recruitment, the future of work, and the philosophical questions they raise about human and AI coexistence.The ultimate takeaway: recruiters need to adapt and position themselves strategically in a landscape increasingly influenced by AI technology. The train is in motion, and the time is now to firm up your competitive advantage against both other recruiters and AI-only solutions. Chapters:00:00 - Podcast intro: How AI is reshaping the future of recruitment02:22 - Agentic AI explained: The rise of autonomous digital workers11:17 - How Agentic AI is impacting recruiters and the hiring process19:12 - Future-proofing your recruitment strategy in an AI-powered world26:14 - Final thoughts: Preparing for AI's growing role in recruitmentExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this Tactical Tuesday episode, Sam and Vivien discuss effective recruitment strategies — focusing on building trust with candidates, structuring conversations, and understanding candidate motivations. Candidates won't open up and be as transparent if they feel like they can't trust you — which is why building true rapport is more important than almost any other aspect of an interview. Treating an interview like an interrogation is an easy way to ensure you never get to know the real person on the other side of the phone or screen. Throughout this conversation, Sam and Vivien emphasize the importance of authenticity and human connection in recruitment, providing practical tips for recruiters to engage candidates more effectively and help connect them to the right job opportunities.Chapters:00:00 - Podcast intro: Mastering trust and connection in recruitment03:12 - The key to better interviews: Establishing trust with candidates06:26 - How to understand and identify candidate motivations12:50 - Podcast wrap-up: Key takeaways for stronger candidate relationshipsExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this Tactical Tuesday episode, Sam is joined by Vivien to discuss key performance indicators (KPIs) in recruitment — with a focus on how to improve metrics such as time-to-source, time-to-submission, and submission-to-hire conversion rates. Throughout the conversation, Sam and Vivien emphasize the importance of leveraging technology and AI to streamline the recruitment process, enhance candidate engagement, and improve outreach strategies — because sometimes, the right usage of automation can help make our efforts more human, not less. That being said: the conversation also touches on the increasing significance of creativity in communication and the need to stand out in a crowded market, particularly on platforms like LinkedIn. It's a must-listen episode! Chapters:00:00 - Podcast intro: Mastering recruitment KPIs and creative outreach02:25 - Time-to-source optimization: Finding top talent faster09:36 - Time-to-submission optimization: Tips for efficient hiring workflows15:24 - Submission-to-hire success: Turning candidate submissions into hires19:55 - Mastering LinkedIn InMail: Engaging candidates in a crowded spaceExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this REPLAY episode, we're running back some thoughts on AI in recruitment that our CEO, Matt Chambers, shared in early 2024. This conversation is even more relevant today — and it's important to understand the context before forecasting the future. So:What's the reality of AI in recruiting? How does this buzzword *really* fit into your daily routine as a recruiter?Matt joins us for a Mic Drop episode to explain his POV, debunk misconceptions, and explore the different use cases of AI in the recruiting industry.From generative AI to automated sourcing, we uncover the possibilities and discuss how recruiters can prepare themselves for the future.Chapters:00:00 - Podcast Intro01:21 - Exploring AI's Role in Recruiting: Unveiling Its Impact and Origins05:26 - The Rise of HR Tech Giants: Y Combinator and Its Influence on Recruiting11:18 - Preparing Recruiters for the AI-Powered Future14:37 - Practical AI Applications for Recruiters: Current Use Cases22:35 - Understanding Knowledge Graphs: The Foundation of Artificial Intelligence in Recruitment27:00 - Podcast FarewellExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this Tactical Tuesday video, Sam and Vivien discuss the importance of understanding key performance indicators (KPIs) in recruitment. They emphasize that technology alone won't improve hiring results; instead, it's about strategy, execution, and measuring the right metrics. In particular, the conversation covers various metrics in recruitment — such as time to source, time to hire, and the significance of conversion rates — and how to evaluate these metrics to enhance your effectiveness. Chapters:00:00 - Podcast intro: Mastering KPIs to improve recruitment results03:59 - Breaking down time-to-hire and time-to-source metrics11:07 - How conversion metrics can improve your recruitment outcomes 16:40 - Closing thoughts: Elevating your recruitment game with better metricsExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this episode, we sat down with Sam Kuehnle, VP of Marketing at Loxo, to uncover why predictable revenue models might be holding your business back. We dive deep into the pitfalls of outdated sales tactics and explore how Loxo's approach to demand generation is driving real results.If you're a B2B marketer looking to align sales and marketing, create meaningful demand, and build lasting relationships with your audience, this episode is for you.Tune in and learn:+ Why churn and burn sales tactics are unsustainable+ How to align marketing and sales around shared goals+ The difference between being data-driven vs. data-informedThis episode is a must-watch for marketers ready to ditch old playbooks and embrace strategies that actually work.-----------------------------------------------------SUBSCRIBE to our channel: https://www.youtube.com/@theb2bplaybookSUBSCRIBE to our newsletter: https://theb2bplaybook.com/newsletter/GET the latest CONTENT: https://theb2bplaybook.com/-----------------------------------------------------00:00:00 The Problem with Predictable Revenue00:01:27 Meet Sam Kuehnle: VP of Marketing at Loxo00:02:37 What is Loxo? Revolutionizing Talent Intelligence00:05:01 Why Loxo Needed Brand Awareness, Not Just Demand00:07:18 The Difference Between Brand Awareness and Demand Creation00:09:23 The Obsession with Quantity Growth Strategies00:12:06 Negative Touch Points: The Hidden Cost of Cold Outreach00:16:10 Why Churn and Burn Tactics Are Unsustainable00:18:20 Building a Consultative Marketing-Sales Relationship00:22:03 Aligning ICPs and Segments Across Teams00:25:20 Sharing Goals: The Secret to Team Collaboration00:30:22 Data-Informed, Not Data-Driven: Shifting the Marketing Mindset00:36:01 How Podcasts and Content Build Brand Affinity00:42:12 Cutting Paid Search: Why Loxo Focused on Efficiency00:47:17 The Power of Speaking to Problems, Not Products-----------------------------------------------------

Ah, predictions. If you've been around for a while, you likely know how we feel about them...which is that they're very frequently wrong. But in this Trending Topics episode, Sam and Lex dive into a few studies that focus on the fastest growing jobs, industries poised for growth, and the state of job hunting in 2025 — with an emphasis on studies that have taken current macrotrends into account. We also have some fun diving into Harvard Business Review's "Charts That Help Make Sense of 2024." If you're a visual learner (or just want to see where "humans working alongside robots" falls in a visualized timeline), take a look! Chapters:00:00 - Intro: Exploring the fastest growing jobs and recruitment trends in 202504:20 - The 25 fastest growing jobs recruiters should watch in 202512:20 - The fastest growing industries and what they mean for recruitment15:10 - How job seekers feel about finding jobs in 202521:22 - How layoffs are shaping employee morale and expectations26:30 - Funny and fascinating studies from 2024 you need to see30:48 - Podcast farewell: Looking ahead to 2025Explore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this Tactical Tuesday episode, Sam takes to the mic solo to discuss the (still) evolving landscape of recruitment, focusing on the integration of AI and machine learning tools. It's 2025, and these tools aren't going away — if anything, they're only going to become more prevalent. That's why finding a way to strike the balance between automation and manual effort is so critical. In particular, Sam emphasizes the importance of automating repetitive tasks, improving candidate sourcing through diverse channels, and utilizing predictive analytics for better hiring decisions. The future is here — it's time to roll with the punches.Chapters:00:00 - Welcome: Striking the balance between automation and human effort01:58 - Top skills recruiters aim to master in 202503:17 - Saving time by automating repetitive recruitment tasks05:03 - Improving candidate sourcing with new tools and strategies08:32 - Transforming recruitment strategies with predictive analytics10:40 - Podcast goodbye: Rolling with the punches in recruitment's futureExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this episode Sam and Lex discuss LinkedIn's predictions for 2025. It's a list that's much shorter than last year's — which we're taking to mean that LinkedIn is just as confused as the rest of us when it comes to what's to come in the year ahead. Throughout the conversation, we focus on the predictions like the rise of millennial CEOs, the importance of supporting workers for global growth, and the evolving role of corporate employees as influencers. And, of course, we explore how these trends will impact recruitment and workplace dynamics. Chapters:00:00 - Podcast intro: Exploring LinkedIn's 2025 predictions for recruitment03:30 - The rise of millennial CEOs: What it means for recruitment08:38 - How global growth is reshaping recruitment strategies13:50 - The rise of employee influencers: What recruiters need to know20:40 - How subject matter experts are reshaping workplace dynamics24:00 - Podcast wrap-up: Key trends shaping recruitment and workplace dynamicsExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this first episode of 2025 (WILD), Sam is joined by Vivien to discuss New Year's resolutions —  specifically tailored for recruiters, of course. They reflect on the changes in recruitment communication from 2024, emphasizing the importance of building relationships, prioritizing quality over quantity in outreach, and developing a strong personal brand. The conversation also highlights the need for creativity in recruitment strategies as we move into this new year — especially with AI and other technological advancements continuing to shake things up. Chapters:00:00 - Welcome to 2025: New Year's resolutions for recruiters02:12 - Lessons from 2024 and what's ahead for recruitment in 202503:23 - Prioritizing relationships: The key focus for recruiters in 202504:40 - Why quality over quantity matters in recruitment outreach06:22 - Building your personal brand to boost word-of-mouth referrals07:35 - Creating value to make an impact in recruitment strategies10:50 - Closing thoughts: Resolutions to elevate your recruitment gameExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

Today's Trending Topic episode is a replay of one of our most popular early episodes — in which Loxo's Founder & CEO, Matt Chambers, joins us to dive into the world of business development in the recruitment industry. It's no surprise that bizdev has been a HOT TOPIC this year — and for good reason. We thought it was timely to resurface these insights as we start looking ahead into 2025. From understanding market conditions to setting goals and measuring progress, we cover it all. Whether you're a small boutique agency or a large organization, this episode has a takeaway for everyone! 

This is a replay of our very first episode of 2024 — which we thought was fitting as we wind the year down.In it, Sam and Vivien explore personalized approaches for hiring — emphasizing human connection and addressing common frustrations among recruiters, hiring managers, and candidates.They advocate for open communication, personalized interactions, and feedback-driven strategies — as well as keeping the humanity in recruiting, especially as AI-powered solutions pop up left and right.The episode stresses the need for recruiters to lead by example, fostering positive change by integrating integrity, customization, and human touch into their recruitment practices — take a few minutes out of your day to listen!Chapters:00:00 - Podcast Intro01:16 - Personal Development for Recruiters03:11 - Navigating Relationships: Recruiters & Hiring Managers09:10 - Refining Candidate Interactions: Tips & Tricks15:31 - Recruiters Leading the Change Charge20:27 - Tactical Advice for Hiring Manager Collaborations22:00 - Podcast FarewellExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this Trending Topics episode, Sam and Lex talk DATA. But before you make any assumptions about how much of a bore this episode must be, listen to this: According to a recent survey, 72% of recruiters don't know their conversion ratios. Which means that 2/3 of recruiters are missing out on critical data insights that could help them be more effective.In this conversation, we spend time talking about the fact that even when things are working, it's good to understand why they're working — so you can double-down on winning behaviors and keep improving with every day. We'll get into why performance metrics are more powerful than volume metrics, the role technology plays in recruitment data, and the importance of data integrity. And we promise that, even with all that data-talk, it's not boring. Chapters:00:00 - Podcast intro: Why recruitment data matters more than ever04:02 - Recruiter.com insights: The future of talent acquisition in 202505:40 - The inefficiency of recruiter analytics and how to improve them13:05 - How recruiters measure performance: Metrics that matter21:56 - High costs and low returns: The challenge of outdated recruitment tech28:22 - Expert advice for improving recruitment strategies with data32:36 - Podcast farewell: Using data insights to drive recruitment growthExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this quick Tactical Tuesday episode, Sam shares a powerful strategy for improving your recruitment outreach: leveraging senior leadership as senders.Learn why having executives send personalized messages to top candidates can significantly boost your response rates and candidate engagement, especially for executive search and critical roles. Discover the three key benefits of this approach and how to implement it in your recruitment process. Tune in for this short — but impactful! — look at how to elevate your hiring game!Chapters:00:00 - Podcast Intro01:21 - The power of senior leadership in recruitment outreach02:05 - The ultimate outreach tip to engage top candidates04:27 - Podcast farewellExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

Dr. Nathan Pennell and Dr. John Sweetenham discuss the evolving landscape of oncology in 2025 and the challenges oncologists will be facing, including the impact of Medicare drug price negotiations, ongoing drug shortages, and the promising role of AI and telehealth in improving patient outcomes and access to clinical trials. TRANSCRIPT Dr. John Sweetenham: Hello, I'm Dr. John Sweetenham, the host of the ASCO Daily News Podcast. 2025 promises to be a year of continued progress in drug development, patient care, and technological innovations that will shape the future of cancer care. Oncologists will also be grappling with some familiar challenges in oncology practice and probably face a few new ones as well. I'm delighted to be joined today by Dr. Nathan Pennell to discuss some of these challenges. Dr. Pennell is the co-director of the Cleveland Clinic Lung Cancer Program and vice chair of clinical research at the Taussig Cancer Center. He also serves as the editor-in-chief of the ASCO Educational Book.  You'll find our full disclosures in the transcript of this episode.  Nate, it's great to have you on the podcast today. Dr. Nathan Pennell: Thanks for inviting me, John. I'm excited to be here. Dr. John Sweetenham: Thanks. So, Nate, we've been hearing a lot recently about implementation science in oncology particularly. This has been the case, I would say, over the past decade and of course the goal is to how do we figure out the best way to integrate evidence-based practice into oncology care? There's been a lot of very good guidance from organizations like ASCO and every year we're reminded of the need for clinical decision support for practicing oncologists at the point of care. Although I think we all agree it is the right thing to do, and this has been a matter of discussion for probably more than 10 years, for the most part, I don't think we've really got there. Some big practices probably have a truly well-integrated clinical decision support tool, but for many of us this is still lacking in the field. I wonder whether we do need some kind of global clinical decision support tool. What do you think about the future of clinical decision support at the point of care? And do you think this is going to continue to be a need? Dr. Nathan Pennell: I think that's a fantastic question and it absolutely is something we're going to continue to work towards. We're in an incredibly exciting time in oncology. We've got all these exciting predictive biomarkers, effective treatments that are working better than anything we've had in our careers up to this point. But when we actually look to see who is benefiting from them, what we find is that outside of clinical trial populations, many of our patients aren't actually accessing these. And so publications that look at real-world use of these, one that jumps to mind for me is a publication looking at biomarker testing for driver oncogenes in lung cancer showed that while everyone who treats lung cancer says, “Absolutely, we need to test for biomarkers such as EGFR mutations,” in the real world, probably only slightly over a third of people ever access these drugs because there are so many different gaps in care that fall through the cracks. And so decision support is absolutely critical.  You mentioned this has been going on for a decade. Actually, the Institute of Medicine in 2013 recommended that with the uptake of electronic medical records, that we move forward with building these true learning health care systems that would improve quality and use every patient's information to help inform their care. And in 2023, as a representative of ASCO, I was able to look back at the last decade, and the uniform conclusion was that we had failed to build this learning health care system. So, what can we do going forward? The good news is there are improvements in technology. There are, for better or for worse, some consolidation of electronic medical records that has allowed larger numbers of patients to sort of have data sets shared. ASCO started CancerLinQ to try to improve quality, which is now part of OpenAI, and is still working on technology solutions to help provide decision support as we are better able to access patient data. And I think we're going to talk a little bit later about some of the technological advances that are going on in artificial intelligence that are really going to help improve this. So I think this is very close to impacting patient care and improving quality of care. I think for, as you'd mentioned, large health care systems and users of the major EMRs, this is going to be extremely close. Dr. John Sweetenham: Thanks, Nate. And just to extend the conversation into another area, one of the constant, I think, pain points for practicing oncologists has been the issue of prior authorization and the amount of time and energy it takes to deal with insurance denials in cancer care. And I think in a way, these two things are linked in as much as if we had clinical decision support tools at the point of care which were truly functional, then hopefully there would be a more facile way for an oncologist to be able to determine whether the patient in front of him or her is actually covered for the treatment that the oncologist wants to prescribe. But nevertheless, we're really not there yet, although, I think we're on the way to being there. But it does remain, like I said, a real pain point for oncologists.  I wonder if you have any thoughts on the issue of prior authorization and whether you see in the coming year anything which is going to help practicing oncologists to overcome the time and effort that they spend in this space. Dr. Nathan Pennell: I think many oncologists would have to list this among, if not the least favorite aspects of our job these days is dealing with insurance, dealing with prior authorizations. We understand that health care is incredibly expensive. We understand that oncology drugs and tests are even more expensive, probably among, if not the most rapidly growing costs to the health care system in the U.S., which is already at about 20% of our GDP every year. And so I understand the concern that costs are potentially unsustainable in the long term. Unfortunately, the major efforts to contain these costs seem to have fallen on the group that we would least like to be in charge of that, which are the payers and insurance companies, through use of prior authorization. And this is good in concept, utilization review, making sure that things are appropriate, not overutilizing our expensive treatments, that makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, it's moved beyond expensive treatments that have limited utility to more or less everything, no matter how inexpensive or standard. And there's now multiple publications suggesting that this is taking on massive amounts of time. Some even estimated that for each physician it's a full 40-hour work week per physician from someone to manage prior authorizations, which costs billions of dollars for practices every year. And so this is definitely a major pain point.  It is, however, an area where I'm kind of optimistic, maybe not necessarily in 2025, but in the coming several years with some of the technology solutions that are coming out, as we've talked about, with things like clinical pathways and whatnot, where the insurance company approvals can be tied directly to some of these guideline concordance pathway tools. So the recent publication at the ASCO Quality [Care] Symposium looking at a radiation oncology practice that had a guideline concordant prior auth tool that showed there was massive decrease in denials by using this. And as this gets rolled out more broadly, I think that this can increase the concept of gold carding, where if practices follow these clinical guidelines to a certain extent, they may be even exempt from prior authorization. I think I can envision that this is very close to potentially removing this as a major problem. I know that ASCO certainly has advocated on the national level for changes to this through, for example, advocating for the Improving Seniors Timely Access to Care Act. But I think, unfortunately, the recent election, I'm not sure how much progress will be made on the national level for progress in this. So I think that the market solutions with some of the technology interventions may be the best hope. Dr. John Sweetenham: Yeah, thanks. You raised a couple of other important points in that answer, Nate, which I'll pick up on now. You mentioned drug prices, and of course, during 2025, we're going to see Medicare negotiating drug prices. And we've already seen, I think, early effects from that. But I think it's going to be really interesting to see how this rolls out for our cancer patients in 2025. And of course, the thing that we can't really tell at the moment that you've alluded to is how all this is going to evolve with the new administration of President Trump. I understand, of course, that none of us really knows at this point; it's too early to know what the new administration will do. But would you care to comment on this in any way and about your concerns and hopes for Medicare specifically and what the administration will do to cancer care in general? Dr. Nathan Pennell: I think all of us are naturally a little bit anxious about what's going to happen under the new administration. The good news, if there's good news, is that under the first Trump administration, the National Cancer Institute and cancer care in general was pretty broadly supported both in Congress and by the administration. And if we look at specifically negotiating drug prices by Medicare, you can envision that having a businessman president who prides himself in negotiations might be something that would be supported and perhaps even expanded under the incoming Trump administration. So I think that's not too hard to imagine, although we don't really know. On the other hand, there are very valid concerns about what's going to happen with the Affordable Care Act, with Medicaid expansion, with protections for preexisting conditions, which impact our patients with cancer. And obviously there are potential people in the new administration who perhaps lack trust in traditional evidence-based medicine, vaccines, things like that, which we're not sure where they're going to fall in terms of the health care landscape, but certainly something we'll have to watch out for. Dr. John Sweetenham: Yeah. Certainly, when we regroup to record next year's podcast, we may have a clearer picture of how that's going to play out. Dr. Nathan Pennell: I mean, if there's anything good from this, it's that cancer has always been a bipartisan issue that people support. And so I don't want to be too negative about this. I do think that public support for cancer is likely to continue. And so overall, I think we'll probably be okay. Dr. John Sweetenham: Yeah, I agree with that. And I think one of the things that's important to remember, I do remember that one of the institutions I've worked at previously that there from time to time was some discussion about politics and cancer care. And the quote that I always remember is “We all belong to the cancer party,” and that's what's really important. So let's just keep our eye on the board. I hope that we can do that.  I'm going to switch gears just a little bit now because another issue which has been quite prominent in 2024 and in a few years before that has been supply chain issues and drug shortages. We've seen this over many years now, but obviously the problems have apparently been exacerbated in recent years, particularly by climate events. But certainly ASCO has published some recommendations in terms of quality care delivery for patients with cancer. Can you tell us a little bit about how you think this will go in the coming year and what we can do to address some of the concerns that are there over drug shortages? Dr. Nathan Pennell: Yeah. This continues to be, I think, a surprising issue for many oncologists because it has been going on for a long time, but really hasn't been in the public eye. The general problem is that once drugs go off patent and become generic, they often have limited manufacturers that are often outside the U.S. sometimes even a single manufacturer, which leaves them extremely vulnerable to supply chain disruption issues or regulatory issues. So situations where the FDA inspects and decides that they're not manufacturing things up to snuff and suddenly the only manufacturer is temporarily shut down. And then as you mentioned, things like extreme weather events where we had Hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico and suddenly we have no bags of saline for several months. And so these are major issues which I think have benefited from being in the public eye.  ASCO, on the one hand, has, I think, done an excellent job leading on what to do in scenarios where there are shortages. But I think more importantly, we need more attention on a national level to policy changes that would help prevent this in the future. Some suggestions have been to increase some of the oversight of the FDA into supply chain issues and generic drugs, perhaps forming more of an early warning system to anticipate shortages so that we can find workarounds, find alternative suppliers that perhaps aren't currently being widely utilized. We can advocate for our legislators to pass legislation to support drug production for vital agents through things like long term contracts or even guaranteed pricing that might also even encourage U.S. manufacturers to take back up generic drugs if they were able to make it profitable. And then finally, I think just more of a national coordinated approach rather than the piecemeal approach we've done in the past. I remember when we had a platinum [drug] shortage last year. Our institution, with massive resources in our pharmacy, really did an excellent job of making sure that we always had enough supply. We never actually saw that shortage in real time, but I know a lot of places did not have those resources and therefore were really struggling. And so I think more of a coordinated approach with communication and awareness so that we can try to prevent this from happening. Dr. John Sweetenham: Thanks, Nate. And you raised the issue of major weather events, and I'd like to pick up on that for just a moment to talk about climate change. We now know that there is a growing body of evidence showing that climate change impacts cancer care. And it does it in a lot of ways. I mean, the most obvious is disrupting care delivery during one of these major events. But there are also issues about increased exposure to carcinogens, reduced access to food, reduced access to cancer screenings during these major disasters. And the recent hurricanes, of course, have highlighted the need for cancer centers to have robust disaster preparedness plans. In addition to that, obviously there are questions about greenhouse gas emissions and how cancer centers and health care organizations handle that.  But what do you see for 2025 in this regard? And what's your thinking about how well we're prepared as deliverers of cancer care to deal with these climate change issues? Dr. Nathan Pennell: Yeah, that is sobering to look at some of the things that have happened with climate change in recent years. I would love to say that I think that from a national level, we will see these changes and proactively work to reduce greenhouse emissions so that we can reduce these issues in the future. I'm not sure what we're going to see from the incoming administration and current government in terms of national policy on changes for fossil fuel use and climate change. I worry that there's a chance that we may see less done on the national level. I know the NCI certainly has policies in place to try to study climate change impact on cancer. It's possible that even that policy could be impacted by the incoming administration. So we'll have to see.  So, unfortunately, I worry that we may be still dealing in a reactive way to the impacts of this. So, obviously, wildfires causing carcinogens, pollution leading to increased cancer incidence, obviously, major weather events leading to physical disruptions, where cancer centers definitely have to have plans in place to help people maintain their treatment during those periods. As an individual, we can certainly make our impact on climate change. There are certainly organizations like Oncologists United for Climate and Health, or so-called OUCH, led by Dr. Joan Schiller, a friend of mine in the lung cancer world, where oncologists are advocating for policies to reduce use of fossil fuels. But I don't know, John, I don't know if I'm hopeful that there's going to be major policy changes on this in the coming year. Dr. John Sweetenham: I suspect you're right about that, although I think on the positive side, I think the issue as a whole is getting a lot more attention than it was maybe even two or three years ago. So that has to be a good thing that there's more advocacy and more attention out there now.  Nate, before we go on to the last question, because I do want to finish on a positive note, I just wanted to mention briefly that there are a couple of ongoing issues which, when we do this podcast each year, we normally address, and they certainly haven't gone away. But we know that burnout and workforce issues in oncology will continue to be a big challenge. The workforce issues may or may not be exacerbated by whatever the new administration's approach to immigration is going to be, because that could easily significantly affect the workforce in oncology. So that's one issue around workforce and burnout that we are not addressing in detail this year. But I wanted to raise it just because it certainly hasn't gone away and is going to continue to challenge us in 2025.  And then the other one, which I kind of put in the same category, is that of disparities. We continue to see ethnic and racial disparities of care. We continue to see disparities in rural areas. And I certainly wouldn't want to minimize the challenges that these are likely to continue to present in 2025. I wonder if you just have any brief comments you'd like to make and whether you think we're headed in the right direction with those issues. Dr. Nathan Pennell: Well, I'm somewhat optimistic in some ways about burnout. And I think when we get to our final topic, I think some of that may help. There may be some technology changes that may help reduce some of the influences of burnout. Disparities in care, obviously, I think similarly to some of the other issues we talked about have really benefited from just a lot of attention being cast on that. But again, I actually am optimistic that there are some technology changes that are going to help reduce some disparities in care. Dr. John Sweetenham: It's always great to finish one of these conversations on a positive note, and I think there is a lot to be very positive about. As you mentioned right at the beginning of the podcast, we continue to see quite extraordinary advances, remarkable advances in all fields of oncology in the therapeutic area, with just a massive expansion in not only our understanding, but also resulting from that improved understanding of the biology of the disease, the treatment advances that have come along. And so I think undoubtedly, we're going to see continued progress during 2025. And I know that there are technology solutions that you've mentioned already that you're very excited about. So, I'd really like to finish today by asking you if you could tell us a little about those and in particular what you're excited about for 2025. Dr. Nathan Pennell: Yeah. It's always dangerous to ask me to nerd out a little bit about some of these technology things, but I don't think that we can end any conversation about technology and not discuss the potential for artificial intelligence (AI) in health care and oncology. AI is sort of everywhere in the media and sort of already worked its way into our lives in our phones and apps that we're using and whatnot. But some of what I am seeing in tools that are probably going to be here very soon and, in some cases, already arriving, are pretty remarkable.  So some of the advances in natural language processing, or NLP, which in the past has been a barrier to really mining the vast amounts of patient information in the electronic medical record, is so much better now. So now, we can actually use technology to read doctor's notes, to read through scanned PDFs in our EMRs. And we can imagine that it's going to become very soon, much harder to miss abnormal labs, going to be much harder to miss findings on scans such as pulmonary nodules that get picked up incidentally. It's going to be much easier to keep up with new developments as clinical guidelines get worked in and decision support tools start reminding patients and physicians about evidence-based, high-quality recommendations. Being able to identify patients who are eligible for clinical trials is going to become much more easy.  And that leads me to the second thing, which is, throughout the pandemic we have greatly increased our use of telehealth, and this really has the potential to reduce disparities in care by reaching patients basically wherever they are. This is going to disproportionately allow us to access rural patients, patients that are currently underrepresented in clinical trials and whatnot, being able to present patients for clinical trials. In the recent “State of Cancer Care in America” report from ASCO, more than 60% of patients in the U.S. did not have access to clinical trials. And now we have the technology to screen them, identify them and reach out to and potentially enroll them in trials through use of decentralized elements for clinical trials. And so I'm very optimistic that not just good quality standard cancer care, but also clinical research is going to be greatly expanded with the use of AI and telehealth. Dr. John Sweetenham: Really encouraging to hear that. Nate, it's been a real pleasure speaking with you today and I want to thank you for taking the time to share your insights with us on the ASCO Daily News Podcast.  Dr. Nathan Pennell: Thanks, John. Dr. John Sweetenham: I also want to say thank you to our listeners for your time today. If you value the insights that you hear on the ASCO Daily News Podcast, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement. Find out more about today's speakers: Dr. Nathan Pennell @n8pennell   Dr. John Sweetenham   Follow ASCO on social media:    @ASCO on Twitter    ASCO on Facebook    ASCO on LinkedIn      Disclosures:   Dr. John Sweetenham:   Consulting or Advisory Role: EMA Wellness   Dr. Nathan Pennell:     Consulting or Advisory Role: AstraZeneca, Lilly, Cota Healthcare, Merck, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Genentech, Amgen, G1 Therapeutics, Pfizer, Boehringer Ingelheim, Viosera, Xencor, Mirati Therapeutics, Janssen Oncology, Sanofi/Regeneron    Research Funding (Inst): Genentech, AstraZeneca, Merck, Loxo, Altor BioScience, Spectrum Pharmaceuticals, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Jounce Therapeutics, Mirati Therapeutics, Heat Biologics, WindMIL, Sanofi  

In this guest episode, Sam joins the crew at Ringover on their The Staffing Ring podcast to talk about everything from: why some tech tools get used daily (while others are left to wither away in tech purgatory), to honing in on your Ideal Customer Profile, to how play the long-game when it comes to building trust and brand awareness, and beyond.Of course there are some subtle plugs for Loxo in there — but the point of this episode is really to highlight how vital workflow integration is to user adoption. Adding more tech to your stack is always going to come at a cost — and if you're not getting the most possible use out of that investment, across your entire team, it starts to raise some bigger questions. Tune into this episode if you're thinking about switching technology providers, contemplating adding more tech to your stack, or looking for ways to build a trusted brand. We cover a lot of bases, and it's a good time!Chapters:00:00 - Podcast intro02:00 - Sam takes the hot seat to talk about recruitment's biggest challenges04:03 - Round 1: Key priorities for recruiters in today's market12:50 - Round 2: How recruiters can improve business development strategies25:24 - Round 3: Technology's impact on leadership in recruitment31:03 - Round 4: A personal Q&A with Sam38:00 - Innovations and opportunities shaping the future of recruitment41:10 - Sam's parting thoughts on recruitment successExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

This episode is a party: Sam is joined by our Tactical Tuesday queen, Vivien Maron AND Loxo's resident reporting expert, Logan Heck. Together, this trio dives deep into a common recruiter complaint — "My tech isn't working!" — and ask an important question: Is the technology the problem, or the usage?  They discuss the changing landscape of recruitment, the impact of regulations on communication methods, and the importance of getting creative to maintain engagement with candidates (especially as best practices keep shifting) — all so you can uncover how to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Chapters:00:00 - Podcast intro02:33 - Why email outreach has become more challenging for recruiters09:00 - Understanding email performance: Analytics every recruiter needs16:57 - The role of effective calls-to-action in improving recruitment outreach18:54 - How content creation and curation enhance candidate engagement22:10 - Building better connections through human-centered outreach24:20 - Podcast farewellExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this episode, Paul Sharpe — a recruitment expert with over 20 years of experience — joins us to discuss some pressing issues in the recruitment industry, particularly the problem of recruiters working for free. Paul introduces some harsh truths: 1) Recruiters are often working for free, filling only 20-30% of roles. And 2) the recruitment industry has been facing significant economic pressures as of late. Yikes, right? But rest assured: it's not all doom & gloom. The entire conversation highlights the need for a mindset shift among recruiters to position themselves as trusted partners rather than mere service providers — and Paul makes a case for why a Recruitment Process Outsourcing (RPO) model can be a good solution for recruiters to consider. Paul provides a ton of wisdom, personal experience, and some tactical tips for recruiters who are looking to take their business to the next level — so regardless of where you are in your journey, this episode is certainly worth a listen.Chapters:00:00 - Intro: Exploring RPO solutions and mindset shifts in recruitment02:27 - Why 80% of recruiters' time goes to waste04:46 - Uncovering recruitment's biggest challenge: The story behind it08:02 - RPO explained: A new way to approach recruitment11:03 - Benefits of adopting RPO: A win-win for recruiters14:55 - Getting started with RPO: A guide for recruiters18:36 - What segmentation reveals about your recruitment clients21:06 - Creating an MVP for recruitment services: The essentials27:36 - Validating your strategy with market feedback33:07 - Practical business development tips for recruiters36:02 - How recruiters can navigate and embrace change40:57 - Pricing strategies for recruitment services44:54 - The technology every recruiter should be using47:45 - Expert tips to elevate your recruitment business49:50 - Podcast farewell: Final words from Paul SharpeExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this Tactical Tuesday episode, Sam focuses on a topic we're surprised more people aren't talking about: the importance of utilizing LinkedIn InMails effectively.Aside from our belief that every recruiter should be employing a multi-channel outreach strategy (not relying wholly on LinkedIn), there's also the fact that InMails are expensive...especially when they're not being used effectively.Sam encourages recruiters to invest time in crafting personalized messages to maximize the return on their InMail credits, highlighting the unique feature of receiving credits back for responses. As always, the episode serves as a tactical guide for improving recruitment outreach.Chapters:00:00 - Podcast intro: Mastering LinkedIn InMails for better outreach01:55 - The cost of LinkedIn InMails: Plans and what you need to know03:08 - Optimizing LinkedIn InMails: Get the most from your outreach05:24 - Podcast wrap-upExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this Trending Topics episode, Sam and Lex discuss the complexities surrounding 'Quality of Hire' in recruitment — complexities that have often led even ardent fans of the metric to say it's nearly impossible to measure. But what if it didn't actually have to be that difficult? What if while, yes, Quality of Hire is subjective, it's also pretty simple? This conversation highlights Uber's framework for measuring Quality of Hire — emphasizing the importance of developing success profiles, redesigning the hiring process, and validating hires through post-hire surveys. For those fans of Quality of Hire who are looking for a way to measure it, this is a good place to start. Hear some thoughts from our friend (and former podcast guest!) Tim Sackett on Quality of Hire here, and then check out Uber's framework here.Chapters:00:00 - Podcast intro03:14 - Quality of Hire: Simplifying the way you measure success08:07 - Step 1: Evaluating hiring performance for better results13:40 - Step 2: Redesigning the hiring process for higher-quality hires19:16 - Step 3: Validating hires to ensure Quality of Hire success26:40 - Podcast conclusion: Simplifying and measuring Quality of HireExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this Tactical Tuesday episode, Sam and Vivien dive into all things AI in recruitment — everyone's favorite topic!They explore the evolving applications of AI — from sourcing candidates to engaging and screening them — and emphasize the importance of maintaining human connections throughout the hiring process. The takeaway? AI is a permanent fixture in recruitment, but that doesn't mean the human touch is going away. This conversation highlights both the pros and cons of using AI tools — with Sam and Vivien advocating for a balanced approach that enhances efficiency without sacrificing the essential human element of recruitment.Chapters:00:00 - Podcast intro02:29 - Is AI in recruitment a smart move? What you need to know07:50 - Recruiting with AI: Streamlining sourcing for better results11:28 - Using AI to effectively engage and contact candidates16:32 - Final thoughts: Balancing AI and human touch in recruitingExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

Several reports show that freelancing is on the rise — and in this Trending Topics episode, Sam and Lex discuss the implications of this growing trend for the recruitment industry.New ways of working often spring up out of challenging times, and this shift toward fractional work makes a lot of sense for both companies and workers — especially those who want flexibility above all else. But the reality is that this model of work provides challenges for both parties...and for the recruiters who serve as their middlemen. This conversation covers the importance of understanding the freelance economy, the necessity of building strong relationships with freelancers, and the strategic shifts required in recruitment processes. This is a great episode for those looking to stay ahead of the curve and trying to adjust their recruitment workflow a bit to accommodate freelance talent!Chapters:00:00 - Podcast intro02:29 - Tracing the rise of freelancing and its impact on businesses05:20 - Navigating key challenges in managing freelancers13:30 - How recruiters can capitalize on the freelance economy17:56 - Building a talent pool: Adapting your process for freelancers21:50 - Mastering payment structures and contracts for freelance talent24:50 - Accelerating onboarding for freelance hires28:17 - Final reflections on leveraging freelance talent in recruitmentExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

Here's the thing: Money is a big thing, but it isn't the only deciding factor for candidates. In this Tactical Tuesday episode, Sam and Vivien discuss allllll the many factors that can influence a candidate's decision when considering job opportunities. Throughout the conversation, they reference the CLAMPS framework — which includes Challenges, Location, Advancement Opportunities, Money, People, and Security — as a tool to understand candidate motivations. Vivien suggests recruiters use this framework in interviews, asking open-ended questions to uncover powerful insights that can shape job postings, salary expectations, role structure, and beyond.Chapters:00:00 - Podcast intro02:05 - The top reasons candidates consider new job opportunities04:30 - Analyzing candidate patterns to reveal hidden motivations08:10 - Finding out what candidates really want: The CLAMPS method14:42 - Closing thoughts: Mastering candidate motivations to improve hiringExplore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co

In this episode, Loxo's CEO Matt Chambers chats with Isabel Cosby, VP of Operations at Protis Global & ace Talent Curators about the intricate process of digital transformation within the two companies — especially their switch to Loxo as their recruitment software. Throughout the conversation, Isabel details the challenges and considerations involved in transitioning to new recruitment software — and the importance of data quality and change management throughout that process. It's no secret that digital transformation isn't easy (and change management is critical), but Isabel considers their migration to Loxo well worth it. If you're considering a digital transformation for your recruitment business, this is a MUST-LISTEN episode, filled with tactical tips, advice from lived experience, and tons of wisdom. 

In this Tactical Tuesday episode, Vivien invalidates everything we've ever preached on this podcast before. Just kidding! But at first, you may hear these thoughts on sending multiple messages and following up with candidates and think, "Wait a second...don't they always say to send LESS emails? 'Quality over quantity,' and all that?" And you'd be correct! In this conversation, though, we talk about when following up (AKA sending multiple messages to the same candidate) does make sense — and how to find that balance between quality and quantity in your recruitment outreach.At the end of the day, there's so much nuance to communication — and this conversation provides actionable insights for recruiters looking to improve their outreach efforts and connect with candidates more effectively.Chapters:00:00 - Podcast intro02:04 - The difference between effective and excessive outreach04:35 - How the type of follow-up impacts recruitment success07:36 - Choosing the best channels for effective follow-up08:57 - Providing real value to candidates in your outreach13:18 - Podcast wrap-up and farewell Explore all our episodes and catch the full video experience at loxo.co/podcastBecoming a Hiring Machine is brought to you by Loxo. To discover more about us, just visit loxo.co