Podcasts about seth you

What happens when you make a last-minute decision to attend a Taylor Swift concert with your daughter? Rebecca and Seth take us on their whirlwind adventure of music, memories, and spontaneity! 

Things Discussed: Love to Sam Webb, who's attending the funeral of his younger brother. USC game: They couldn't pass the ball because they couldn't protect him long enough to drop back. Craig: A whale came in late for Michigan in the betting markets. Brian: Michigan not running zone read offense much with Orji, doesn't feel like they know what to do with a running QB. Seth: You can play no-read, and they did some of that, but you need play-action off that and they haven't built any constraints into those plays. Harbaugh always recruited an athlete and a pro-style QB but usually the athlete becomes something else, doesn't seem like this program was prepared for the athlete. Brian: the big runs were more USC blowing something, now that teams have scouted Michigan's Orji offense those cracks are going to go away. Time to celebrate the win was Mon-Tues but on Thursday we have to face the grim reality that there isn't much upside because it's not what this staff wants to or knows how to run. Passing game? Orji got one dropback when he wasn't under pressure and he didn't see an open Marlin Klein. Brian's pretty down on this offense staff's ability to adjust to their personnel. Defense: Wink Martindale's presser pushed back against the narrative that he blitzes too much. Not a good look, not because he's wrong but because he's getting defensive—we think he was responding to Klatt not this site by the way. Actual Wink complaints from this site: Design of his blitzes are leaving the spot open where the pressure's coming from, which is the thing Mac and Minter were very good at taking away. Other issue is Wink doesn't have a feel for when to call things, IE on standard downs. Like, someone busted on the cover zero (minus-one), but why is that blitz coming from Mars, because there's no way for it to be relevant. Play before that they had Iwunnah set an edge. Big run on 3rd & 2 they slanted with Grant stunting, and two LBs taking the interior: it's a Barham-3 play, but why are we playing games? Play football. Not saying don't do anything weird; if you want to get weird get weird but make sure it's a passing down. Seth: This is all fixable. Macdonald had to make the same adjustment, he already Brian: Probably not fixable, since John Harbaugh let him go and New York let him go. Is he self-correcting or this being forced upon him? Because it's not a good sign that he's accusing people of not knowing how many people are crossing the line of scrimmage.. Wink is right about one thing: If the narrative he's going to blitz it helps them. We saw this vs USC, which ran split flow to the TE in the flat three times hoping to get a nickel blitz and all they got was two zero yard plays in the red zone and the Jyaire Hill upending of a TE when Michigan sim blitzed the nickel. Bringing Three: Works when your coverage is great. Josaiah Stewart was great in COVERAGE too: that guy's going in the first round. Minnesota: If they can't run anymore they've lost who they are. If they can't tackle a running back I've got bad news for them against Michigan. Stewart has already had a great game against their star LT Aireontae Ersery.

Things Discussed: Sam's squirrel problem. He wants a cat. Craig wants him to import mongooses. Seth suggests he put up a Michigan State flag and offer them all scholarships. Recruiting: back on track! Lost 2 guys they wanted, got 2 guys they really wanted, actually doing a little better than Harbaugh usual because they used to lose the Isaac Nautas and top-50 safeties to Notre Dame. Got themselves a Rod Moore comp in Ike Taylor. Seth: Michigan's free safety is a nickel—they want the SS to be a Paige so he can defend tight ends and when they motion a slot across the FS and Nickel swap jobs so FS needs to cover slots in space. Holly: See him as a Jaylen Harrell who's responsible and athletic. Craig thinks he'll be Brandon Graham and we call him insane. Babalola: Would be the #1 OT recruit in recorded M history. Recruiting strategy: stagger guys? Right now it's free transfers so you want guys who aren't going to leave. In the future when you can sign them to contracts Ohio State's going to be in great shape. You always take best available, but your board isn't the national board, and shouldn't be. Example: I wasn't too high on the Smith twins and they might have missed out on Edokpayi and Devon Baxter whom I like a lot. FSU and Clemson not talking to SEC/B10 anymore? Best guess if that's true it's because SEC/B10 don't want to be involved in the lawsuit. What's the future of this? There's no rationality to it so there's no stability to it, so I can't care about it. Right now it's just grabbing schools. Eventually there has to be some reckoning, a separation of divisions, dropping some schools. The things USF cares about are not the things that Michigan cares about, and having them competing for the same national championship isn't good for either of them. Brian: "Wait I would like to disparage, denigrate, and downgrade certain Big Ten members." Seth: You can dream about dropping schools all you want but you'd have to basically dissolve the Big Ten to get rid of Rutgers. The Pacific Conference did this once and reformed as the Pac-8 without Idaho.

Things Discussed: NCAA as Romanovs? How to talk to your kids about systems of government. How to fix the NCAA: Gonna need contracts and collective bargaining, but the NCAA should be at the point now where they realize they'll get more negotiating with the players than getting sued by them. Transfers should NOT be open. You're devaluing education, which is still the best thing the schools have to offer. Keon Sabb: hurts, but get that Bama was able to sell him a bill of goods on playing time. Defense: Find a 2nd corner, McBurrows at nickel, gonna miss Sainristil lining everybody up and running their complex coverages, but Rod Moore knows his stuff. Offense: Who's going to be the quarterback? Denegal talk. Seth: You need accuracy with these receivers, because you're taking advantage of the space you get from Tyler Morris or Donovan Edwards—no jump-ballers on the roster. Basketball: Juwan will get another year, has to start building like Purdue not Calipari.

Things Discussed: Seth comes on early to talk about Jim Harbaugh's comments: If NCAA starts revenue-sharing now they'll get a better deal than when they're forced to do it. He's real about it—he knows the guys who played in the NFL before revenue-sharing—he's also political, and also sticking it back to the NCAA, and also manipulating the media away from suspensions. Does he have allies on this? Players, obviously. Coaches will be told to be against it. Resume this w/ Brian & Craig: He's earnest about it. If Northwestern unionized maybe Fitz is still coaching. ECU Preview: Mason Garcia is a tank, came up through the program. Last year was The Year, got portal-picked. Bend-don't-break. Michigan careful with injuries: Think that Cornelius Johnson, Tyler Morris, Rod Moore, Will Johnson, Makari Paige could play but no need to get them hurt. Nobody's got an NHG issue. Seth: You can't tiptoe through a football season. Don't agree with taking it too easy because football will punish you cosmically. Sam: They have 2 more noncons to sleep through. Freshman receivers: Fred Moore ran a slow 40 in the snow and got underrated—gonna start—very good deep threat. Semaj is super fast, reminds Craig of Speedy Eaglet. Karmello is the most college-ready. Michigan needs to play-action more. The stats say JJ was the best play-action QB and Michigan ran it just a few times. Just six PA plays against TCU for 25 yards/per. Deep ball gets better when receivers get an opportunity to build trust. Receivers were used to Cade McNamara? Michigan's going to see zone because who can man up a LB against Loveland/Edwards? What did Weiss do here? He made great tweaks in the running game. Discussion on redzone offense growth over the season from slow-mesh reads to dives to Belly and QB lead power. JJ making more checks, changing routes, getting to sling more. Michigan needed to adjust faster to teams loading up the box. Run JJ! If you're worried about injury, it's less risk to run him six times in the first half than subject him to three hits in the second half. More RPOs? Let's do it!

In this episode, we take a look at the seven pillars to grow your wealth. Grant Everybody, welcome to another episode of Financial investing radio. My name is Grant Larsen. And today I have in the house, one of those unique people that understands some of the fascinating ways to build and protect your wealth. I'm excited to have with me here today, Seth Hicks. Welcome, Seth. Seth Thank you so much Grant, glad to be here. Grant So when you reached out to me, and you started to say, hey, could we talk I started to look into what it was you're doing. I mean, I'm hearing words like private banking and asset protection expert, you hear some of that stuff? And you think, Oh, wow, do I have to have an advanced degree, right in financial management to understand this stuff. But what occurred to me is that I've seen some of these principles before, they don't seem to be well known by most. And so what I'm excited about is the opportunity through this channel here for you to continue to get your voice out there and say, here's a way that you can build and protect yourself. So first of all, how did you get into this? Seth Well, I practice law for about 25 years now, and have structured transactions, commercial real estate transactions, business, acquisitions, and sales. And kind of help people keep what they make, so to speak. And when I met my now partner, Vance Lowe, the principle of private banking strategies, it floored me to find how easy it was to make a few changes, and effectively do 100%. better job. And so what I mean by that is private banking strategies, we use whole life insurance policies that are structured in a way to have a high cash value, and in the appropriate structure and appropriate jurisdiction. They're statutorily exempted and protect it, much like a homestead in certain states and many of the same state. So, for example, in the southern states, you've got a post Civil War air legislation where... Grant It goes that far back post Civil War? All right, absolutely. Seth Yeah. So private banking goes back as far as Civil War era. And even before that precedes branch banking, it precedes the the type of current culture banking that we have. And the post Civil War era statutes protected their their citizens, the state citizens from Northern carpetbagging. So for example, yeah, for so for, like example, in Texas, and Oklahoma and Florida. And a lot of those states, south of the Mason Dixon Line, you have laws that protect homesteads. So in the event that there's a liability, and someone has a homestead that they've declared, it is 100% protected from being taken from them. And that was a product of the Civil War. Grant So let me ask you this, when you talk about how you know protection from having it taken, I'm assuming you're talking about scenarios like maybe bankruptcy scenario, or something else where you owe other people but you've got this protective layer that no one could actually come in and take that foundation from you. Is that right? Seth That's right. A lot of our clients, you know, higher net worth, some of some are ultra high net worth, and many are blue collar, but they have created strategies to keep what they make. I mean, no one wants to effectively work hard to earn money and then and then lose it. So those type of folks who gravitate towards structures where they're able to keep what they make, so for example, if you've got a homestead You're in Texas or in Florida, and you want to use it as a vault, and you don't have any debt on it and you're able to pay the property taxes, year after year, then it is 100% exempted from creditors or from outside taking. Grant So that's an important baseline is that it does need to be debt free, you have to have no mortgage on that or any liens against that. That'd be right. Seth Sure, yeah, you've got to if you've got a, you know, a loan with a traditional bank, they have a right to the mortgage payments or, and so they will effectively if not paid, foreclose on that, and those rights are obviously superior. But if you're if you're in a position where you're able to, for example, use your own private bank, through the cash value in your own policies, and purchase and acquire your home, or other assets through that entity, you would do the same structure, you mean, obviously, your bank and part of the cycle is getting the money back. And that's something that the Vance prides himself on his teaching people how to get the money back, you've probably heard some of that, and your private banking, that's one of the reasons that people do it, they effectively take the banking equation back into their own law into their own become the bank. Grant So as the flow is something like this, you get one of these Whole Life policies, it takes some time for you to build up some cash value, but then that cash value becomes something you can leverage and use for either purchasing other assets or leveraging it and other investments, so to speak. And that has some protection wrapped around it, is that what you're describing? Seth That's exactly what I'm describing. And like I said, a lot of our clients are higher net worth or even ultra high net worth. And when they capitalize their bank, they are, they're able to do a lot more with it right out of the gate. But for the blue collar guy, you're right, it's a, it's a steady increase that you use. A lot of folks use this as a retirement strategy, because the ins and outs are not a taxable event. And if any of the audience wants to dig on that it's internal revenue code 7702. And what that basically outlines is that your whole life policies, your your cash in and your cash out, are not taxable events. So compare that with like an IRA or a 401 K, that someone's been socking money into. When you take those distributions. Well, if you take them too soon, you're penalized you penalized if you take them too late, you're penalized. Yeah, and it would take them right in that the right time. You're still paying taxes, I'm still paying taxes on it.  Grant So every single cash transaction on the cash value, no tax, no taxation on that, right. That's, that's amazing. How blue collar person or someone that's not old truck, how do they get started then Is it is it I hate to say as simple as but Is it as simple as getting started with your whole life policy earlier in your life than later? So you can begin building out that cash value is is that the number one thing are what else would you do? Seth You know, I wouldn't say age is the number one determined to factor. In fact, we've got an article and a podcast that we've produced that says, you know, you're never too old to start private banking. And here's why. And we go through the outlines the benefits and values, which include asset protection, tax free growth, financial privacy, no taxation on the legacy value. So if you're leaving high value to heirs and benefits, beneficiaries, don't pay any taxes on that transaction, even if it's ultra high. So there's some value there, depending on what your primary motivations and focus are. And the age of course, if you start earlier, you're going to accrue a much greater and higher value as you you know, as you go year after year, but let me give you an example. We've got one of our favorite clients is as a woman in Texas, who was a single mom, and she started out with a $5,000 annual whole life policy and she made she made that contribution for a few years and and then use that cash value to as a downpayment into an investment property. Oh really? So she purchased this investment property as and then she also had third party financing of course, she began to develop cash flow from that and she paid her bank, her private bank back and as that cash value increased in a crate increased, she did The exact same thing, she rinsed and repeated the process with the second investment property. And now she has a million dollar equity portfolio in real estate from where she started at $5,000 leverage. Now, we've been, you know, she's had the benefit of an appreciating real estate market, she's had good investments, but it illustrates the principle that you can actually start in that small of an amount and and multiply that seed into something that really brings a large harvest. Grant That's fascinating. One of the things I noticed from you was, I think you call it the Seven Pillars of private banking strategies. Can you speak to that for a moment? What are those? Seth Sure, the first, the first pillar we've been talking about is asset protection. And the second pillar is tax free growth, which is we also referenced that compare that to a 401 K, or an IRA, you may have tax free growth inside, but you're going to pay taxes when it comes out. And we've got some illustrations that kind of compare those two things and show you you know, which comes out ahead, and it may look like a contributions from an employer and other matching proceeds will come out ahead. But in overtime, they really don't. So you've with inside the policy, you've got compounding growth, and you've got a tax free growth. And you've got a financial privacy. third pillar is financial privacy. Whereas compare that to a bank, for example, who has to KYC know their customer, know your customer, they want to understand, you know, every aspect of money in and money out, you going to try to take out or put in a large cash, for example, a 510 $1,000 Cash, I'm into your Wells Fargo or Bank of America account. And they want to, you know, cross examine you on 50 questions about why you're using cash, where, you know, that doesn't happen in a private contract with the life insurance companies, we use it, it's totally private, and they don't raise their hand and go, Hey, there's a large transaction in or out, and they're not required to by the IRS Code 7702 Grant And it's just not part of their business model, right? Seth It's not part of their business model. No. And so it's interesting to point out this is kind of a little sidebar, but the largest players are the largest clients of the life insurance companies, or the centralized banks, like Wells Fargo and Bank of America. I think the last time I looked at Wells Fargo has a 20 plus billion dollar annual premium for life insurance policies that they hold on employees and, and others. So if, you know, gives you some insight. Grant That's huge. Okay, so right, so asset protection, tax free growth. Seth Tax free growth, financial privacy, privacy, the big one is velocity of money. And once philosophy of money, we describe that a little bit and in the the example that I gave our audience with the woman who started with a $5,000 premium, and then when she had enough to make a down payment on an investment property, she did so and so she she paid a premium dollar into the whole life policy, she borrowed that same dollar out to make a downpayment, she purchased a piece of real estate with that dollar, she got a rental dollar back from the tenant, and she paid her bank back on the note and deed of trust. And that's the velocity of money. It's the multiple touches within your own economy of the same dollar. And I mean, I'm simplifying it there with $1 but that's effectively the transaction. Grant Now that like you said earlier, it's the rinse and repeat principle right meaning absolutely cut it out. She's liquidated it used it acquired some capital back repaid herself and now she's she's reset to do again, right? That's absolutely. When every Seth When every dollar that she pays back into her bank, Grant, it increases the cash value, dollar for dollar. So you've got that that loan from your bank coming out. And when you recycle that rental cash flow back in or that business cash flow, or that cryptocurrency sell, or whatever your investment might be back into your bank, your cash value goes right back up to whatever you've put in. And so you and I both know that banks they make money by lending money. So Wells Fargo with and Bank of America orca Chase and these large centralized banks, they put their money to work by making good loans. They make loans that are secured, they make loans that are collateralized. And they, ultimately they want that cash flow with an interest rate. Well, it's the same principle with your own private bank. And you want to make a good loan to the borrower, whether it's your business, whether it's your brother, whether it's whatever a third party, you want to make a good loan, make sure it's collateralized and secure in the chief got an investment, cash flow, and an ROI on that loan coming back to your bank. And there's that cash flow increases again, you do the same thing. So you begin to think like a banker, you think like a banker? Grant Yeah. Because that's so liberating, right to people to be able to be on that side of the table. Right? making those choices. Alright, and then what's the fifth? So there were seven? So I was four. What's the fifth one? Yeah, I'm looking at the seven pillars. Seth So guaranteed financing. Yeah, it financing. So let's say that you're that you've you've you've done like our our hypo example with a woman there. And she's gone through a number of years, but she only started with 5000. Remember, now let's say that she's got 100,000, in total cash value. And she's in a state like Texas, where you can buy an investment property for 100,000. Or she could lever into multiple properties on like an 8020, split, for example, you know, she could buy five properties with 20%, down and put 20,000 down on five properties that cost $100,000, financed the other 80%. And she's building cash flow on all five of those, and actually getting a much higher ROI. And in that example, what you what she would be doing was effectively using leverage to increase the ability to invest in multiple assets. And when her cash value stacks up high enough, she could take out the third party lenders, or she could continue to use that strategy of leverage. And that really depends on someone's their own risk tolerance, their own investment strategy, some folks, they you know, that they're going to eliminate those third party loans. And they're going to take that cash value and just totally take out the third party debt. And so the only debt that would remain on that particular real estate asset would be their, their own private bank. So the guaranteed financing part means you don't go to the bank, and you don't have to qualify, you don't have to go through any type of you know, yeah, because you're the bank. Yeah, you're the bank. Yeah. So you make sure you look that guy in the mirror, and you make sure that you're making a good loan on a good asset. And you do that. So but I described the principle of leverage, because a lot of times people get ahead on that concept of leverage, as opposed to just buying one property for $100,000. And let's say you're making 2000 a month, you got 24,000 in gross cash flow, versus, you know, if you spread that across five properties, and you got 24,000 times five life and cash flow, so you know, and you're able to just knock those debts out a lot faster. That's the velocity of money and guaranteed financing working together. Yeah. Grant And written replenishments faster. Okay. All right, number six, and seven, what are those on your seven pillars? Seth So guaranteed compounding it tax free growth is the part inside your policy that that cash value and your premium dollars, they are compounding inside the policy annually, and there's no taxable event. And so I think it was Einstein who said the, you know, the compounding interest is the eighth wonder of the world or something along that line. And if you're not, you're not getting compounding interest, then you're making a mistake. So you don't get compounding interest in your centralized banks. You don't get compounding interest in various other investments or formats. But in this these policies you do. So that's, that's something that is very distinguishable and it also takes out the market risk with your policies and the values in there, you're not subject to market risk. So this is not universal life. This is not indexed. Universal Life or any type of risk transfer. To the the owner of the policy or to us, you're not taking on market risk. But in those types of policies Universal Life or index, Universal Life, ual  Grant You, you are taking on market risk and one of the things? That's right, so being in control of the risk, right, that's absolutely mental aspect. Seth Absolutely, if you're going to use your cash value and put it to work and investment, you should be the one that's able to identify that risk and not have it subject to equity market risk. So it never goes backwards, you're going to only see a steady prodding forward with this compounding growth. And after a certain number of years, it starts to go more parabolic. And that's, that's really the beauty of this. And the magic of it. Some folks, they they locked this stuff up for retirement strategy. And you know, some are using it for the leverage. Grant Yeah, you know, it's interesting, I've seen some financial people describe that risk control paradigm with a with a pyramid, right, and they'll describe it, you know, in the, in the manner that you want to have more control. So you start, you start, you should start these sorts of strategies first and get that established. And then and then over time, as you go up the pyramid, you have less control over it higher risk, potentially higher returns, but that might be where you're doing some you're, you know, trading or investing or self directed activities. And a lot of people invert that pyramid, right, that's a well, they'll start with that self directed trading or investing. It's, you know, high risk, low control, and then blow out what capital they have, when instead, turn that the other way around, start with these foundational approaches that you're describing, and then build on top of that. Does that make any sense? Seth Amen, absolutely does. Sometimes will, will describe that as, you know, Hare and tortoise paradigm. And some people go, Well, this isn't, you know, I can make this much here. And I make 12% Over here, I can make 15%. Well, no, you really can't over 30 years, and likely there's going to be a risk factor there that may blow you out. Totally. Grant Yeah. And the loss of control that absolutely, yeah. Now. Yeah. Seth I mean, you've got this third party risk, whenever you've got, you know, a transfer of your money to someone else. That's, you know, you've got that risk that counterparty risk, whereas this, these insurance companies, they don't fail. I mean, they've been paying dividends, since before the Civil War, year after year, through the Great Depression through the Civil War through every economic upturn and downturn that there is. And it's, it's just one of the reasons why grant is because there's a cash reserve requirement of one to one, as opposed to a cash reserve requirement at a Wells Fargo of maybe 10% or less. Yeah, so they take they take $1 In deposit, and they're able to lend out 10, or perhaps even 50, depending on what their total asset bases and that's, that's funny math. You just print money out of thin air, and then they're able to loan the printed money at an interest rate, and they're making money on something they never even received a receipt. Grant Fascinating, right? The before I ever heard about this approach of this technique, one, I have to tell you my origin story of learning about this for the first time, it was my wife was driving our minivan. It was when our kids were little. And she was backing out of the garage and kids were bouncing around everywhere. And you know, I would have made the same mistake, but she wasn't watching. And she was turning around and talking to the kids. Hey, kids sit down, she backs out and just wax the mirror off of the side of that house right on the minivan. And so you know, I come home from work. She's like, many of the mirrors hanging off the side. So I look at it go well, it was a really old minivan, really old minivan. And I was like, Well, okay, let me go get it fixed. And so I took it over to the dealer. And I had this thought goes through my mind. And the thought was wait, rather than because at the time, I think auto loans were going to like 4% or 5% or something like that. And at the time, our house had been paid off, but I decided to take out a home equity loan to do some fix ups on the home and it was running. The interest rate at that time was like half a percent on this home equity loan. And so I'm in there They're looking at getting the car fixed. And I'm going to dealer and all sudden I go, let me go look at the floor, showroom, and I walked over, you know, I pull out my home equity checkbook, and I just pay for it right there, boom, and I get this car course still today it's a joke if dad goes to fix the mirror comes home with the new car. So I come back with the, with this car. And oh, by the way, I'm driving back thinking, I'm a banker, man, I just, I'm a banker, I just, I just floated this thing myself, and got home. And of course, guy, you know, paid that off at a much less interest rate. A few years after that. I heard this principle you're talking about you've been discussing here. And it clicked, I went, wait, wait, that's kind of what I did. Right. But it wasn't using a whole life. But the whole principle is, let's put the people in charge. Right? Not not some other policy or program that larger organizations are bestowing upon you but rather put us the people in the driver's seat, so to speak, and be able to make those decisions themselves. And I think that that's really liberating.  Seth That's absolutely, yeah, that's absolutely right. And that that's exactly the same principle is you're you're taking back the banking equation, you're becoming you're operating a private family bank that has generational value, and and has you where you are able to touch the same dollars that you make multiple times like we described in one of our examples and and you're that velocity, really accelerate your wealth curve. And without the taxation issues. And without the the asset protection risk, you're able to transfer assets generation to generation and take a whole nother opens up a whole nother doorway. So that brings us to our seventh pillar, which is legacy value, and the tax free transfer of these policies and the death benefits to the next generation or Asian officials. Wow. Yeah, tax free. So think about this, for example, there's a guy who most people know named Prince, and the or the artist, formerly known as Prince, he was a pop rock, yeah, seeing are pretty pretty well known. And he died not too long ago with an estate value of about $200 million. And he was a resident of Minnesota, ironically, and he had no private banking structure in place, he had really no estate tax planning structures in place. And between the federal government and the state of Minnesota, they took over $100 million of that 200 million, and in taxation and estate taxes, and his beneficiaries and heirs, you know, are left holding the short end of the stick, that none of that would have occurred with proper planning, or that same money in a private banking situation. And then, I've heard, I was reading some articles on Suze Orman who's a supposedly financial guru. And she talks about private banking on occasion, and she, she really has no concept of what it really does. And in this interview article with the guy from New York Times, she says, You know, I'm so worried or concerned about my, my partner, being left with less than half of my estate. And I think at the time of the article, she worked about 65 million. And so her partner, she said, is going to, you know, have have to, you know, take 30 million or whatever, instead of 35. And she didn't know how to overcome that problem. And I thought, this is really unbelievable, in the sense that it's such an easy solution. And we kind of we talked about this kind of off off recording about it's literally the stroke of a pen that you can accomplish these values and these benefits the Seven Pillars without having to be, you know, a black belt. And in any particular one one realm. Grant Financial genius, you just have to know that that's available that it's there. Absolutely. Seth Yeah. So you enter the policies, you fund your policies, you keep funding your policies, and you enjoy the these benefits. It's really not rocket science. It's more just of learning that it's there. And it it it blew my mind. It was an epiphany to me. Yeah, having practice law for decades and then and then seeing this was available. I thought it can be that easy. It can't be that easy to with the stroke of a pen to protect assets, but it is I mean, it's it's codified law and these contracts grant or it's worth mentioning that there they are regulated state by state. So each state has their own statutes that govern the the law, the protection, you're gonna need to protect it right.  Grant So some states better than others are worse, right? Seth Absolutely. And it's, it's kind of like the post Civil War era statutes in southern states. They protect their citizens, life insurance policies, they protect their citizens homesteads many times in comparison to other northern states or western states. So it is, Grant wow, that's huge. Okay, so, all right, I've really enjoyed the conversation, if you were to point people to a place to go to learn more about this, Seth, where you're going to point him to? Seth It's really easy, you go to our website, https://privatebankingstrategies.com, that's https://privatebankingstrategies.com. And there in you're going to find a an offer. And you can read a book that we wrote that that tells you about secrets that banks don't want you to know, effectively. And I like to call it a red pill book. And it spots issues that people may or may not be aware of. And it's it's amazes me, how many folks don't really understand what the banking folks are doing to them. You know, and with regards to mortgage rates, with regards to all sorts of issues, you just so this red pill book is something that pops up there for you. And you've put your contact information, your name and your email, and, and you can listen to the book on audio, or you can take it in a written form. And that's really the where we start. On our website, Grant, we've got a pretty wide volume of resources from podcasts that dive into particular pillars, or how to how the banking operates, to blog articles, and then our emails that will come to you also address certain issues like the Dodd Frank Act, and what how why does that matter to you? Are, are your are your, you know, is your cash safe? And and it's centralized bank, why or why not? You know, our, there's simple things that you can do to protect yourself. So we try to add value. And those emails that come out to folks, we try to help them make a decision that this is, you know, for them or not for them. And it's really that simple. So you just hit the website, private banking strategies.com. You can have the book for free, all the podcast, all the emails for free. And if those things resonate with you, then you can schedule an exploratory call with Vance and start to get into the nitty gritty of it into what it means.  Grant Wow, Seth, thank you so much for taking the time here today with us and with our audience here. Very enlightening. It feels like we're popping out of the matrix right with with red pill. I love the analogy. Thanks again for joining and for going over this today. Everyone. Take a look at what it is that Seth is talking about https://privatebankingstrategies.com Thanks again for joining in everybody and until next time, become your own private banker. Seth Thank you, Grant. Thank you for joining Grant on Financial Investing Radio. Don't forget to subscribe and leave feedback. And remember to download your free ebook, visit ClickAIRadio.com now.

In this episode, we take a look at the seven pillars to grow your wealth. Grant Everybody, welcome to another episode of Financial investing radio. My name is Grant Larsen. And today I have in the house, one of those unique people that understands some of the fascinating ways to build and protect your wealth. I'm excited to have with me here today, Seth Hicks. Welcome, Seth. Seth Thank you so much Grant, glad to be here. Grant So when you reached out to me, and you started to say, hey, could we talk I started to look into what it was you're doing. I mean, I'm hearing words like private banking and asset protection expert, you hear some of that stuff? And you think, Oh, wow, do I have to have an advanced degree, right in financial management to understand this stuff. But what occurred to me is that I've seen some of these principles before, they don't seem to be well known by most. And so what I'm excited about is the opportunity through this channel here for you to continue to get your voice out there and say, here's a way that you can build and protect yourself. So first of all, how did you get into this? Seth Well, I practice law for about 25 years now, and have structured transactions, commercial real estate transactions, business, acquisitions, and sales. And kind of help people keep what they make, so to speak. And when I met my now partner, Vance Lowe, the principle of private banking strategies, it floored me to find how easy it was to make a few changes, and effectively do 100%. better job. And so what I mean by that is private banking strategies, we use whole life insurance policies that are structured in a way to have a high cash value, and in the appropriate structure and appropriate jurisdiction. They're statutorily exempted and protect it, much like a homestead in certain states and many of the same state. So, for example, in the southern states, you've got a post Civil War air legislation where... Grant It goes that far back post Civil War? All right, absolutely. Seth Yeah. So private banking goes back as far as Civil War era. And even before that precedes branch banking, it precedes the the type of current culture banking that we have. And the post Civil War era statutes protected their their citizens, the state citizens from Northern carpetbagging. So for example, yeah, for so for, like example, in Texas, and Oklahoma and Florida. And a lot of those states, south of the Mason Dixon Line, you have laws that protect homesteads. So in the event that there's a liability, and someone has a homestead that they've declared, it is 100% protected from being taken from them. And that was a product of the Civil War. Grant So let me ask you this, when you talk about how you know protection from having it taken, I'm assuming you're talking about scenarios like maybe bankruptcy scenario, or something else where you owe other people but you've got this protective layer that no one could actually come in and take that foundation from you. Is that right? Seth That's right. A lot of our clients, you know, higher net worth, some of some are ultra high net worth, and many are blue collar, but they have created strategies to keep what they make. I mean, no one wants to effectively work hard to earn money and then and then lose it. So those type of folks who gravitate towards structures where they're able to keep what they make, so for example, if you've got a homestead You're in Texas or in Florida, and you want to use it as a vault, and you don't have any debt on it and you're able to pay the property taxes, year after year, then it is 100% exempted from creditors or from outside taking. Grant So that's an important baseline is that it does need to be debt free, you have to have no mortgage on that or any liens against that. That'd be right. Seth Sure, yeah, you've got to if you've got a, you know, a loan with a traditional bank, they have a right to the mortgage payments or, and so they will effectively if not paid, foreclose on that, and those rights are obviously superior. But if you're if you're in a position where you're able to, for example, use your own private bank, through the cash value in your own policies, and purchase and acquire your home, or other assets through that entity, you would do the same structure, you mean, obviously, your bank and part of the cycle is getting the money back. And that's something that the Vance prides himself on his teaching people how to get the money back, you've probably heard some of that, and your private banking, that's one of the reasons that people do it, they effectively take the banking equation back into their own law into their own become the bank. Grant So as the flow is something like this, you get one of these Whole Life policies, it takes some time for you to build up some cash value, but then that cash value becomes something you can leverage and use for either purchasing other assets or leveraging it and other investments, so to speak. And that has some protection wrapped around it, is that what you're describing? Seth That's exactly what I'm describing. And like I said, a lot of our clients are higher net worth or even ultra high net worth. And when they capitalize their bank, they are, they're able to do a lot more with it right out of the gate. But for the blue collar guy, you're right, it's a, it's a steady increase that you use. A lot of folks use this as a retirement strategy, because the ins and outs are not a taxable event. And if any of the audience wants to dig on that it's internal revenue code 7702. And what that basically outlines is that your whole life policies, your your cash in and your cash out, are not taxable events. So compare that with like an IRA or a 401 K, that someone's been socking money into. When you take those distributions. Well, if you take them too soon, you're penalized you penalized if you take them too late, you're penalized. Yeah, and it would take them right in that the right time. You're still paying taxes, I'm still paying taxes on it.  Grant So every single cash transaction on the cash value, no tax, no taxation on that, right. That's, that's amazing. How blue collar person or someone that's not old truck, how do they get started then Is it is it I hate to say as simple as but Is it as simple as getting started with your whole life policy earlier in your life than later? So you can begin building out that cash value is is that the number one thing are what else would you do? Seth You know, I wouldn't say age is the number one determined to factor. In fact, we've got an article and a podcast that we've produced that says, you know, you're never too old to start private banking. And here's why. And we go through the outlines the benefits and values, which include asset protection, tax free growth, financial privacy, no taxation on the legacy value. So if you're leaving high value to heirs and benefits, beneficiaries, don't pay any taxes on that transaction, even if it's ultra high. So there's some value there, depending on what your primary motivations and focus are. And the age of course, if you start earlier, you're going to accrue a much greater and higher value as you you know, as you go year after year, but let me give you an example. We've got one of our favorite clients is as a woman in Texas, who was a single mom, and she started out with a $5,000 annual whole life policy and she made she made that contribution for a few years and and then use that cash value to as a downpayment into an investment property. Oh really? So she purchased this investment property as and then she also had third party financing of course, she began to develop cash flow from that and she paid her bank, her private bank back and as that cash value increased in a crate increased, she did The exact same thing, she rinsed and repeated the process with the second investment property. And now she has a million dollar equity portfolio in real estate from where she started at $5,000 leverage. Now, we've been, you know, she's had the benefit of an appreciating real estate market, she's had good investments, but it illustrates the principle that you can actually start in that small of an amount and and multiply that seed into something that really brings a large harvest. Grant That's fascinating. One of the things I noticed from you was, I think you call it the Seven Pillars of private banking strategies. Can you speak to that for a moment? What are those? Seth Sure, the first, the first pillar we've been talking about is asset protection. And the second pillar is tax free growth, which is we also referenced that compare that to a 401 K, or an IRA, you may have tax free growth inside, but you're going to pay taxes when it comes out. And we've got some illustrations that kind of compare those two things and show you you know, which comes out ahead, and it may look like a contributions from an employer and other matching proceeds will come out ahead. But in overtime, they really don't. So you've with inside the policy, you've got compounding growth, and you've got a tax free growth. And you've got a financial privacy. third pillar is financial privacy. Whereas compare that to a bank, for example, who has to KYC know their customer, know your customer, they want to understand, you know, every aspect of money in and money out, you going to try to take out or put in a large cash, for example, a 510 $1,000 Cash, I'm into your Wells Fargo or Bank of America account. And they want to, you know, cross examine you on 50 questions about why you're using cash, where, you know, that doesn't happen in a private contract with the life insurance companies, we use it, it's totally private, and they don't raise their hand and go, Hey, there's a large transaction in or out, and they're not required to by the IRS Code 7702 Grant And it's just not part of their business model, right? Seth It's not part of their business model. No. And so it's interesting to point out this is kind of a little sidebar, but the largest players are the largest clients of the life insurance companies, or the centralized banks, like Wells Fargo and Bank of America. I think the last time I looked at Wells Fargo has a 20 plus billion dollar annual premium for life insurance policies that they hold on employees and, and others. So if, you know, gives you some insight. Grant That's huge. Okay, so right, so asset protection, tax free growth. Seth Tax free growth, financial privacy, privacy, the big one is velocity of money. And once philosophy of money, we describe that a little bit and in the the example that I gave our audience with the woman who started with a $5,000 premium, and then when she had enough to make a down payment on an investment property, she did so and so she she paid a premium dollar into the whole life policy, she borrowed that same dollar out to make a downpayment, she purchased a piece of real estate with that dollar, she got a rental dollar back from the tenant, and she paid her bank back on the note and deed of trust. And that's the velocity of money. It's the multiple touches within your own economy of the same dollar. And I mean, I'm simplifying it there with $1 but that's effectively the transaction. Grant Now that like you said earlier, it's the rinse and repeat principle right meaning absolutely cut it out. She's liquidated it used it acquired some capital back repaid herself and now she's she's reset to do again, right? That's absolutely. When every Seth When every dollar that she pays back into her bank, Grant, it increases the cash value, dollar for dollar. So you've got that that loan from your bank coming out. And when you recycle that rental cash flow back in or that business cash flow, or that cryptocurrency sell, or whatever your investment might be back into your bank, your cash value goes right back up to whatever you've put in. And so you and I both know that banks they make money by lending money. So Wells Fargo with and Bank of America orca Chase and these large centralized banks, they put their money to work by making good loans. They make loans that are secured, they make loans that are collateralized. And they, ultimately they want that cash flow with an interest rate. Well, it's the same principle with your own private bank. And you want to make a good loan to the borrower, whether it's your business, whether it's your brother, whether it's whatever a third party, you want to make a good loan, make sure it's collateralized and secure in the chief got an investment, cash flow, and an ROI on that loan coming back to your bank. And there's that cash flow increases again, you do the same thing. So you begin to think like a banker, you think like a banker? Grant Yeah. Because that's so liberating, right to people to be able to be on that side of the table. Right? making those choices. Alright, and then what's the fifth? So there were seven? So I was four. What's the fifth one? Yeah, I'm looking at the seven pillars. Seth So guaranteed financing. Yeah, it financing. So let's say that you're that you've you've you've done like our our hypo example with a woman there. And she's gone through a number of years, but she only started with 5000. Remember, now let's say that she's got 100,000, in total cash value. And she's in a state like Texas, where you can buy an investment property for 100,000. Or she could lever into multiple properties on like an 8020, split, for example, you know, she could buy five properties with 20%, down and put 20,000 down on five properties that cost $100,000, financed the other 80%. And she's building cash flow on all five of those, and actually getting a much higher ROI. And in that example, what you what she would be doing was effectively using leverage to increase the ability to invest in multiple assets. And when her cash value stacks up high enough, she could take out the third party lenders, or she could continue to use that strategy of leverage. And that really depends on someone's their own risk tolerance, their own investment strategy, some folks, they you know, that they're going to eliminate those third party loans. And they're going to take that cash value and just totally take out the third party debt. And so the only debt that would remain on that particular real estate asset would be their, their own private bank. So the guaranteed financing part means you don't go to the bank, and you don't have to qualify, you don't have to go through any type of you know, yeah, because you're the bank. Yeah, you're the bank. Yeah. So you make sure you look that guy in the mirror, and you make sure that you're making a good loan on a good asset. And you do that. So but I described the principle of leverage, because a lot of times people get ahead on that concept of leverage, as opposed to just buying one property for $100,000. And let's say you're making 2000 a month, you got 24,000 in gross cash flow, versus, you know, if you spread that across five properties, and you got 24,000 times five life and cash flow, so you know, and you're able to just knock those debts out a lot faster. That's the velocity of money and guaranteed financing working together. Yeah. Grant And written replenishments faster. Okay. All right, number six, and seven, what are those on your seven pillars? Seth So guaranteed compounding it tax free growth is the part inside your policy that that cash value and your premium dollars, they are compounding inside the policy annually, and there's no taxable event. And so I think it was Einstein who said the, you know, the compounding interest is the eighth wonder of the world or something along that line. And if you're not, you're not getting compounding interest, then you're making a mistake. So you don't get compounding interest in your centralized banks. You don't get compounding interest in various other investments or formats. But in this these policies you do. So that's, that's something that is very distinguishable and it also takes out the market risk with your policies and the values in there, you're not subject to market risk. So this is not universal life. This is not indexed. Universal Life or any type of risk transfer. To the the owner of the policy or to us, you're not taking on market risk. But in those types of policies Universal Life or index, Universal Life, ual  Grant You, you are taking on market risk and one of the things? That's right, so being in control of the risk, right, that's absolutely mental aspect. Seth Absolutely, if you're going to use your cash value and put it to work and investment, you should be the one that's able to identify that risk and not have it subject to equity market risk. So it never goes backwards, you're going to only see a steady prodding forward with this compounding growth. And after a certain number of years, it starts to go more parabolic. And that's, that's really the beauty of this. And the magic of it. Some folks, they they locked this stuff up for retirement strategy. And you know, some are using it for the leverage. Grant Yeah, you know, it's interesting, I've seen some financial people describe that risk control paradigm with a with a pyramid, right, and they'll describe it, you know, in the, in the manner that you want to have more control. So you start, you start, you should start these sorts of strategies first and get that established. And then and then over time, as you go up the pyramid, you have less control over it higher risk, potentially higher returns, but that might be where you're doing some you're, you know, trading or investing or self directed activities. And a lot of people invert that pyramid, right, that's a well, they'll start with that self directed trading or investing. It's, you know, high risk, low control, and then blow out what capital they have, when instead, turn that the other way around, start with these foundational approaches that you're describing, and then build on top of that. Does that make any sense? Seth Amen, absolutely does. Sometimes will, will describe that as, you know, Hare and tortoise paradigm. And some people go, Well, this isn't, you know, I can make this much here. And I make 12% Over here, I can make 15%. Well, no, you really can't over 30 years, and likely there's going to be a risk factor there that may blow you out. Totally. Grant Yeah. And the loss of control that absolutely, yeah. Now. Yeah. Seth I mean, you've got this third party risk, whenever you've got, you know, a transfer of your money to someone else. That's, you know, you've got that risk that counterparty risk, whereas this, these insurance companies, they don't fail. I mean, they've been paying dividends, since before the Civil War, year after year, through the Great Depression through the Civil War through every economic upturn and downturn that there is. And it's, it's just one of the reasons why grant is because there's a cash reserve requirement of one to one, as opposed to a cash reserve requirement at a Wells Fargo of maybe 10% or less. Yeah, so they take they take $1 In deposit, and they're able to lend out 10, or perhaps even 50, depending on what their total asset bases and that's, that's funny math. You just print money out of thin air, and then they're able to loan the printed money at an interest rate, and they're making money on something they never even received a receipt. Grant Fascinating, right? The before I ever heard about this approach of this technique, one, I have to tell you my origin story of learning about this for the first time, it was my wife was driving our minivan. It was when our kids were little. And she was backing out of the garage and kids were bouncing around everywhere. And you know, I would have made the same mistake, but she wasn't watching. And she was turning around and talking to the kids. Hey, kids sit down, she backs out and just wax the mirror off of the side of that house right on the minivan. And so you know, I come home from work. She's like, many of the mirrors hanging off the side. So I look at it go well, it was a really old minivan, really old minivan. And I was like, Well, okay, let me go get it fixed. And so I took it over to the dealer. And I had this thought goes through my mind. And the thought was wait, rather than because at the time, I think auto loans were going to like 4% or 5% or something like that. And at the time, our house had been paid off, but I decided to take out a home equity loan to do some fix ups on the home and it was running. The interest rate at that time was like half a percent on this home equity loan. And so I'm in there They're looking at getting the car fixed. And I'm going to dealer and all sudden I go, let me go look at the floor, showroom, and I walked over, you know, I pull out my home equity checkbook, and I just pay for it right there, boom, and I get this car course still today it's a joke if dad goes to fix the mirror comes home with the new car. So I come back with the, with this car. And oh, by the way, I'm driving back thinking, I'm a banker, man, I just, I'm a banker, I just, I just floated this thing myself, and got home. And of course, guy, you know, paid that off at a much less interest rate. A few years after that. I heard this principle you're talking about you've been discussing here. And it clicked, I went, wait, wait, that's kind of what I did. Right. But it wasn't using a whole life. But the whole principle is, let's put the people in charge. Right? Not not some other policy or program that larger organizations are bestowing upon you but rather put us the people in the driver's seat, so to speak, and be able to make those decisions themselves. And I think that that's really liberating.  Seth That's absolutely, yeah, that's absolutely right. And that that's exactly the same principle is you're you're taking back the banking equation, you're becoming you're operating a private family bank that has generational value, and and has you where you are able to touch the same dollars that you make multiple times like we described in one of our examples and and you're that velocity, really accelerate your wealth curve. And without the taxation issues. And without the the asset protection risk, you're able to transfer assets generation to generation and take a whole nother opens up a whole nother doorway. So that brings us to our seventh pillar, which is legacy value, and the tax free transfer of these policies and the death benefits to the next generation or Asian officials. Wow. Yeah, tax free. So think about this, for example, there's a guy who most people know named Prince, and the or the artist, formerly known as Prince, he was a pop rock, yeah, seeing are pretty pretty well known. And he died not too long ago with an estate value of about $200 million. And he was a resident of Minnesota, ironically, and he had no private banking structure in place, he had really no estate tax planning structures in place. And between the federal government and the state of Minnesota, they took over $100 million of that 200 million, and in taxation and estate taxes, and his beneficiaries and heirs, you know, are left holding the short end of the stick, that none of that would have occurred with proper planning, or that same money in a private banking situation. And then, I've heard, I was reading some articles on Suze Orman who's a supposedly financial guru. And she talks about private banking on occasion, and she, she really has no concept of what it really does. And in this interview article with the guy from New York Times, she says, You know, I'm so worried or concerned about my, my partner, being left with less than half of my estate. And I think at the time of the article, she worked about 65 million. And so her partner, she said, is going to, you know, have have to, you know, take 30 million or whatever, instead of 35. And she didn't know how to overcome that problem. And I thought, this is really unbelievable, in the sense that it's such an easy solution. And we kind of we talked about this kind of off off recording about it's literally the stroke of a pen that you can accomplish these values and these benefits the Seven Pillars without having to be, you know, a black belt. And in any particular one one realm. Grant Financial genius, you just have to know that that's available that it's there. Absolutely. Seth Yeah. So you enter the policies, you fund your policies, you keep funding your policies, and you enjoy the these benefits. It's really not rocket science. It's more just of learning that it's there. And it it it blew my mind. It was an epiphany to me. Yeah, having practice law for decades and then and then seeing this was available. I thought it can be that easy. It can't be that easy to with the stroke of a pen to protect assets, but it is I mean, it's it's codified law and these contracts grant or it's worth mentioning that there they are regulated state by state. So each state has their own statutes that govern the the law, the protection, you're gonna need to protect it right.  Grant So some states better than others are worse, right? Seth Absolutely. And it's, it's kind of like the post Civil War era statutes in southern states. They protect their citizens, life insurance policies, they protect their citizens homesteads many times in comparison to other northern states or western states. So it is, Grant wow, that's huge. Okay, so, all right, I've really enjoyed the conversation, if you were to point people to a place to go to learn more about this, Seth, where you're going to point him to? Seth It's really easy, you go to our website, https://privatebankingstrategies.com, that's https://privatebankingstrategies.com. And there in you're going to find a an offer. And you can read a book that we wrote that that tells you about secrets that banks don't want you to know, effectively. And I like to call it a red pill book. And it spots issues that people may or may not be aware of. And it's it's amazes me, how many folks don't really understand what the banking folks are doing to them. You know, and with regards to mortgage rates, with regards to all sorts of issues, you just so this red pill book is something that pops up there for you. And you've put your contact information, your name and your email, and, and you can listen to the book on audio, or you can take it in a written form. And that's really the where we start. On our website, Grant, we've got a pretty wide volume of resources from podcasts that dive into particular pillars, or how to how the banking operates, to blog articles, and then our emails that will come to you also address certain issues like the Dodd Frank Act, and what how why does that matter to you? Are, are your are your, you know, is your cash safe? And and it's centralized bank, why or why not? You know, our, there's simple things that you can do to protect yourself. So we try to add value. And those emails that come out to folks, we try to help them make a decision that this is, you know, for them or not for them. And it's really that simple. So you just hit the website, private banking strategies.com. You can have the book for free, all the podcast, all the emails for free. And if those things resonate with you, then you can schedule an exploratory call with Vance and start to get into the nitty gritty of it into what it means.  Grant Wow, Seth, thank you so much for taking the time here today with us and with our audience here. Very enlightening. It feels like we're popping out of the matrix right with with red pill. I love the analogy. Thanks again for joining and for going over this today. Everyone. Take a look at what it is that Seth is talking about https://privatebankingstrategies.com Thanks again for joining in everybody and until next time, become your own private banker. Seth Thank you, Grant. Thank you for joining Grant on Financial Investing Radio. Don't forget to subscribe and leave feedback. And remember to download your free ebook, visit ClickAIRadio.com now.

Things discussed: Welcome back Brian. Thank you, John Donovan. Our defense had it easy. Mazi and Hinton came in for Aidan-like scores but CONTEXT. Hello there Rod Moore. Junior Colson less encouraging. Ryan Hayes PAVED. Counter worked, why stop? What does this say about the passing game? They clearly don't have much confidence in it. Seth: You play an opponent. Washington had safeties way back. Michigan has RUNNING BACKS. Hockey recruiting: the Alabama of hockey, except recruiting matters less in this.

In recent years, UrbanStems has grown from operating its online flower ordering and delivery business in a few markets to processing and delivering orders from coast to coast. It’s a DTC success story, but it was by no means an easy road to get to where the company is now. Scaling is one of the most challenging parts of running a business. Where do you allocate your resources? How do you enter new markets? And what do you do when disaster strikes in a way that could topple your business?Seth Goldman had to answer those questions and more when he took over as the CEO of UrbanStems in 2017. On this episode of Up Next in Commerce, he spilled the tea on everything he learned along the way. Seth explains how to navigate through the process of scaling, finding bottlenecks in your operations, and breaks down the ways to look at ROI when trying to break into a new market. Plus, he gives some insight into best practices when adding headcount. Main Takeaways:Finding the Bottleneck: There is a tendency for everyone to think everything is the problem, so it’s important to use data to prove that you have an actual bottleneck rather than anecdotal experiences. With the data as a guide, you can zero in on the actual bottlenecks and fix them at the source.Tipping The Scale: There are various hurdles to scaling. Doing it successfully is about finding the right level of balance when it comes to allocating resources. Are the current processes failing? Is there new technology that can create efficiencies? Or maybe you should be allocating headcount in a different way. Answering those questions is the best way to determine how to stimulate sustainable growth.Welcome To [Enter City Here]: When expanding your business into new markets, understanding the ROI of moving into those cities is the first step. It’s not enough to figure out if there are potential customers. Other factors such as supply chain, cultural considerations, and non-financial benefits also need to be taken into account.For an in-depth look at this episode, check out the full transcript below. Quotes have been edited for clarity and length.---Up Next in Commerce is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. Respond quickly to changing customer needs with flexible Ecommerce connected to marketing, sales, and service. Deliver intelligent commerce experiences your customers can trust, across every channel. Together, we’re ready for what’s next in commerce. Learn more at salesforce.com/commerce---Transcript:Stephanie:Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Up Next In Commerce. This is your host, Stephanie Postles, co-Founder at mission.org. Today, on the show, we have Seth Goldman, the CEO of UrbanStems. Seth, welcome.Seth:Thank you, Stephanie. Great to be here.Stephanie:Yeah, I'm excited to have you. For anyone who does not know UrbanStems, can you tell me a bit about it?Seth:Sure. UrbanStems is a six-year-old old company that is the premier provider of direct to consumer florals.Stephanie:That's awesome, and how long have you been with the company?Seth:I've been at the company for about three and a half years.Stephanie:Cool. What brought you to UrbanStems and what was your background before?Seth:Yeah, so it was a person actually that brought me, the founder, Ajay Kori is a dear friend of mine, and we both worked at a company called Quidsi together, which was acquired by Amazon back in 2011, and we remained very close friends from that point on. I went off to a company called HelloFresh. He went off to found UrbanStems, and we reunited in 2017.Stephanie:That's great. What did you do at HelloFresh?Seth:Yeah, I was the CEO of the US business, helping to grow HelloFresh from its near infancy in the US to a much larger business, and it was a wild ride and I had a lot of fun doing it.Stephanie:That's great. It seems like a good company to get a lot of lessons from, to bring to UrbanStems, like similar problems maybe, or things to tackle.Seth:Absolutely, both in terms of the apps, specific product, a perishable product, and a complicated supply chain, as well as I'd say the softer skills in terms of scaling a business, scaling a team and the challenges that come along with that.Stephanie:Very cool. When you came into UrbanStems, what was going on back in 2017, and how has it changed since?Seth:Yeah. When I came on board, it was great. Ajay brought me in and asked me to help beef up the operations of the company. I'd say, as a consumer, the biggest difference between now and then is that you could only get UrbanStems in a few select cities across the US at that point, and we made a big decision to go nationwide in early 2018, and that's really helped us scale the business since then. Although, we really still love our city delivery method that we still have in New York and DC. It creates that really intimate relationship with the customer and their recipient. We hope to be able to do more of that going forward.Stephanie:Tell me a bit about how do you pick cities? Of course, if it's started in a certain city, you're probably going to launch there, but how would you go about picking which cities to start in and having that city method that you're talking about, is developing a good relationship in that city?Seth:It's a pretty simple exercise of figuring out which cities are likely to have enough revenue and an ROI on that city to get in there. We believe there probably around 30 cities that we could identify today that likely makes sense. In terms of which cities we'd prioritize next, we would really rely on data. That data would help us understand what would be the revenue opportunity, how quickly we might get there. From there, we would also layer on supply chain and we would try to figure out if that city was easier or more complex from a supply chain standpoint. Finally, we'd overlay brand. We'd try to understand if there were any idiosyncrasies of that city that made it more or less attractive. Then finally, we might say, does that city have any sort of non-financial strategic importance to our business?Stephanie:Oh, great. Okay. This is a very interesting topic that I actually have not talked to many people on the show, so I want to double click into all of those, if you're happy to go there with me.Seth:Sure, let's go.Stephanie:All right. When you're picking your cities, you're talking about developing which ones have an ROI, and then of course, looking into a bunch of data for rolling out to the next cities. How do you go about developing which cities will have a good ROI?Seth:Yeah. The great news is that we have data to show what revenue we have in those cities currently. We would have to do a deep dive analysis of what zip codes we thought we could actually deliver to, depending on the city, if it's a city that we could get in with bike messengers, as we currently do in New York and DC, or if it's a city that would force us to rely exclusively on cars, which is not a major concern although we really love our brand promise of delivering via bike where we can.Stephanie:That's fun.Seth:Yeah, we would then use analytics to understand where we stand in each city revenue versus where we think we might be able to get to, where we start to have to look at some proxy data. For example, Google can help us understand what we believe our penetration in that city is versus a benchmark say of New York or DC, where we currently have our strongest brand recognition. That could give us some guidance as to whether, if we're doing X dollars of revenue, do we think if we jump in, we can increase that by 25%, 50% or more than 100%? Then we have to partner with the marketing team to understand what sort of a marketing effort would be required to get us there within a year or 18 months to break even, which is sort of, not a hard rule, but it's sort of a general proxy of what we're going to be looking for.Stephanie:Okay. When it comes to that marketing effort, what kind of channels do you look for, especially when you're launching in a new city where maybe you're not well-known and it's like, this seems like a city maybe similar to DC, but we've never been there before? What kind of things do you explore to get those new customers and brand awareness?Seth:We have to probably devote certain on the ground marketing campaigns. It could be as simple as going to street fairs, it could be that we would take some sort of local radio or other sort of top of funnel awareness advertising out. Each city though, is really going to be unique. I think that's something that we've learned, even just having New York and DC, we see small differences in the average order value. We see small differences even between, say Manhattan and Brooklyn, in terms of the percentage of flowers versus plants that the consumers purchase. So, we'll have to do some research that helps us understand the consumer and then that would help us figure out which marketing channels would make sense. But we almost certainly would be more comfortable getting aggressive in awareness marketing when we jump into a new city, because the return on that investment should be pretty strong, given that when we get into a city, the conversion rate, we would expect to be higher on our ecommerce platform.Stephanie:Yeah. That's cool. I can also imagine if you have bike deliveries, like if they had the backpack with your logo and beautiful flowers sticking out of it. That in and of itself could be a great marketing tactic to spread word of mouth.Seth:Absolutely. That is an entire romantic vision is true, except hopefully for the flowers sticking out the back, because they should be in contained packaging.Stephanie:Oh yeah. I guess I would just buy all over the place if they're just sticking out. Huh.Seth:But we do have branded everything for our couriers, t-shirts and vests, the coveted sweatshirts and hoodies. In fact, one of the downfalls of our sort of head of delivery was that he designed a hoodie that was too well loved that, not to accuse our corporate team, but they started taking them in numbers that they shouldn't have so we had to place an extra order. It really is the most comfortable hoodie.Seth:But it accomplishes two goals. The first, as we discussed is, it's really nice branding and advertising for the company. The second is it helps make these employees in these remote locations feel more part of our broader and greater team and brand.Stephanie:Yeah. I love that. Are there any other on the ground methods like that, that you're experimenting with or that you are hopeful of to promote word of mouth in maybe a new and different way?Seth:It's interesting in, especially the last nine months, we probably pulled back on a lot of that for obvious reasons. I think that it's an area where we would experiment, but I think you also have to be careful because it's hard to measure the effectiveness of that spend it takes, not just monetary resources, but really time. One of the things that I noted when I came on board in 2017 is that my city managers were being asked to do a lot of these in-person events. We hadn't really thought through how much of their time was being taken and how to think about them as an operations manager versus a marketing manager when we had a lot of work to do to scale the operations of the business. I think people just have to be thoughtful and careful about the KPIs that they're going to measure people against.Seth:But the people who are responsible for budget, but also the people whose time is going to be taken during these events. The good news is that the people love doing the events. These small scale events were very popular for the staff that, even after I told them that they should pull back, I found out months later, they were still doing them because they enjoyed them, but then they would complain that they didn't have time for other things. It did have to lead to some alignment meetings.Stephanie:Yeah. That's a really good point. So, thinking about the next piece that you mentioned was layering on supply chain when rolling out into new cities. It seems really difficult of course, with fresh items. So, how do you all go about thinking about that in a new city and building out a good supply chain that makes sure the flowers don't just die in a warehouse or something?Seth:A very sort of blocking and tackling for our goods is that you have to have a refrigerator. It has to be something that you have confidence is going to maintain temperature at around 35 degrees. And you, say very simple things like just like you're developing any real estate, make sure you give enough time to build it out, so you're not under pressure, because it's hard to come back from that if you're forcing yourself to open up on January 1, but you just can't have the refrigerator installed before then, you're going to fail. Making sure you understand your lead times. But for our business, I'd say the most important thing is understanding the notes in our networks. We have a larger facility in the Greater DC Area that helps service our New York and DC same day delivery locations.Seth:We have to think through as we branch out to more cities, if so for example, Philadelphia, we could certainly service from the same Maryland facility with limited additional CapEx, with limited additional complexity added to our supply chain. As we think to the West Coast, or as we think to, say the big populations in Texas or in the upper Midwest, if we have a facility nearby, there may be synergies where we can pull product from there and deliver it to a local facility. I would say that the farther we get from our home base, in terms of miles, in terms of being three hours and three time zones behind, you have to just ... it's hard to model it out on paper, but you have to start to acknowledge that the difficulties, things that could get lost in translation. You go from having everyone on the same eight hour, 9:00 to 5:00, to only overlapping for five hours, that can just sort of add strain to the systems.Seth:If you're going to go to the West coast, have you hired someone, did you decide that you're going to spend three months having them on the East Coast, training up, learning your culture before you send them to the West Coast, or you're going to take a gamble and just hire them on the West Coast and through more Zoom calls and maybe someone flying to California, try to build them into the culture and the brand of the company? I think those are really important decisions that don't sound like supply chain decisions, but ultimately, really help you down the line when someone is going to have to make a lot of executive calls that will impact your supply chain and will impact your ability to be successful or not on a day-to-day and week-to-week basis.Stephanie:Yeah. I think that's so important around building culture and a team. I mean, especially right now, where everything is digital and companies are still having to hire and find the right people, and it's kind of hard over Zoom. I've interviewed some people over zoom and it's like, you don't really know if you know them or how many notes they have in front of them, or what's really going on. How do you guys go about building a relationship and hiring? I think earlier you mentioned having this connection economy, where everyone's on digital tools, but people still want to connect in the real world, but maybe you can't right now. How do you think about that with teams and cultures and hiring new people?Seth:Yeah, that's a great question. We actually have hired probably about half a dozen people since the lockdowns were initiated and since our corporate staff for the vast majority of folks have not gone into the office. I'd say that we had one key advantage, which was that, before March, we did have a team that was split between New York and DC, so it was not uncommon for us to be on video conferencing. That transition was, to some degree, at least natural. In terms of the hiring process, I'd say the hardest part, and one that we definitely still have not right, and I'll be honest, for some small company, we didn't have it right necessarily before the pandemic was the onboarding. That the team though has started to make headway, we've gotten our swag. We've actually pulled it from the various physical locations and people are getting a care package now when they are in their first week at the company.Seth:I make sure to reach out to new hires during their first week to just welcome them with a warm email and then tell them when they're feeling no longer overwhelmed that we'll have a 30 or 45 minute call with no specific agenda other than really getting to know each other. I can try to sprinkle a few of my thoughts around company mission and values into those calls. Seth:I think for hiring managers and/or senior executives out there, I would also say, it's not just you making sure you know them. If you have someone that you really like, how are they getting to know you and feeling it on both sides? That you have an easier time convincing them to come on board.Stephanie:Yeah. Are there any best tips that you recommend to make sure that the candidates get to know you because, especially over Zoom, it seems like people are always talking over each other, even with ... I was talking earlier about internet, the video's not on, I had to turn it off. Is there anything that you guys practice to make sure that, not only are you getting to know the candidates, but also that they feel comfort with you and can ask questions and feel confident about that?Seth:Yeah, so we do as much as possible try to do video rather than just phone call interviews. I guess you could make arguments that that's better or worse, but it certainly allows people to respond to facial expressions, queues when it looks like someone is about to speak so you can try not to talk over them. I do reserve the last 15 minutes of every interview to allow the interviewee to ask me questions. That's both for them, and also, I secretly am looking to see how prepared someone is by the quality and thoughtfulness of the questions that they ask. If anyone is local, I will try to meet with them in person. We have to be thoughtful about that. Let's say we have two candidates and one is in New York and one is in DC, and we haven't crossed this bridge yet, but how do we make sure there's no implicit bias that we're pushing for the person that we met in person? But we try to have a variety of interviewers for each role. I think we've done a pretty good job with that.Stephanie:Okay, cool. Thinking through bringing on new employees, the first thing that's coming to my mind is scaling companies, something you've had quite a bit of success with around HelloFresh and now UrbanStems. I wanted to hear a little bit about how you think about scaling companies, whether it's at UrbanStems or HelloFresh or anything in the past that you've worked on.Seth:Yeah. I think what I try to do is, when I do have a moment to step back, is look at each function within the business, or I look what our plan is, where are we expected to get to over the next year? Whether that's our revenue mark, whether that's improvement along other KPIs or important metrics, and I try to pair that against each function. Is each function at a point where they can make that leap without any additional people? Are they at a point where they can make that leap but they'll need to improve just process? Do they need technology investments in their function in order to be more successful? We are nowhere near perfect on this, but each year we've gotten better. Our planning process is in the sort of June/July timeframe, of talking through what that plan is, and each team trying to think through what they will need to be successful there.Seth:I would say that stepping back where you run into problems, and it's sort of dual-edged sword, is if you put cash out and investments ahead of growth, you can get yourself in trouble. But you can also get yourself in trouble if you put growth ahead of investment. It is a dangerous game. I think, when it comes to hiring people we try to be thoughtful. It's also, what level are you hiring at? That's something you'll often hear me say to the team if they ask for another resource. To me, it's most important that we get that right level right. Very different to hire an associate versus even someone with two or three years of experience where you're saying, we just could not be successful, we hired someone just out of college. My next question will almost assuredly be, why?Seth:And managing the specific work that someone needs to do against the experience that you're saying is required. You don't want to hire someone too senior to do junior level work. They won't find it satisfying. There is such a thing as overqualified. Then on the flip side, you have to be careful what you can expect of someone more junior and what level of accountability and ownership you can place on them. I think, to me, that's the most important thing, is making sure you're hiring it to the right level, that everyone is aligned, that this role is needed. The reality is, in almost any startup, you're going to have a whole slew of resources that are not yet hired that people think are necessary, and trying to at least agree on alignment on when those might get prioritized.Seth:If something comes up that accelerates something, that happens too. That can throw a wrench in plans and you have to walk people through that that's happening and have conversations, well, hey, how did this new role cut in line ahead of the others? That can be hard, but you have to do it.Stephanie:I've definitely seen that in the past. At previous companies I've been at, I worked in finance, and every team always wanted headcount. Everyone always had a reason and were pretty good at justifying why they need those people. How do you go about spotting those opportunities of like, this is an area that obviously needs investment and I see growth coming after that? How do you actually think through finding the opportunities when they seem like they're pretty hard to spot? What's holding what up to create growth or to create exponential growth in the future?Seth:Yeah. I would say that you're sort of hiring for two reasons. One is growth, like you said, we're truly, there's a revenue or a profit or a customer experience opportunity that's not yet ... We can't go after because we don't have someone on the team. The other is that we're, I don't want to say things are crumbling, but sort of this more fixing the foundational type hires that you have a critical process that's not being executed the way you want. That's where you have to start to lean in and understand, is that a process technology or a resource issue? Once you get comfort that that's a resource issue, from my standpoint, typically that's a pretty easy hire, because, unless you have invested in something that's causing friction, that itself is not worth investing in, that hire will pay for themselves financially, because they're going to unblock something that, that is important to be unblocked.Seth:That's how I get comfortable with those kinds of hires. On the revenue side, if it's creating something new, you can run ROI models. Sometimes you can do those in your head. Sometimes you put them down on paper. Then for other functions, sometimes it is a little bit of taking a risk. For example, it was about a year or 18 months ago that we decided we needed a stronger social presence. We weren't sure exactly what that meant financially, but we brought someone on board on our brand director, Megan's team. After a few months, we started to really see results. We were really impressed. We managed to, in the last 18 months, five X on our Instagram following, not that that's the be all and end all of KPIs. Then for the sort of CFO in me, we started to see revenue, directly attributable revenue follow that.Seth:I think the other thing that, this is where managers have to do, is they have to sometimes take a risk. They say, there's a resource I'm really asking for, this is what I think it will return, and when they have something pan out, they are able to probably come to that next meeting with an ask with a little more confidence themselves, and with the, me again wearing my CFO hat, and me having more confidence to say yes to that opportunity.Stephanie:That's cool. I like you wearing your CFO hat. I appreciate that with a background in finance. You just mentioned, which I'm now I'm sure a lot of people are like, well, tell me how you grew your social, because that is an avenue that obviously a lot of brands are relying on and it's becoming even more important with the ability to click and buy on social, or at least it's headed in that direction. What did you guys do to grow your social presence?Seth:Yeah, so the very first thing we did is, like I mentioned, hire a dedicated resource, someone who spends probably 75% plus of her time thinking through our social channels and how we can become more influential there. Second is, once we started to see some results there, we added a SaaS software platform that helped us assess which visuals were going to be more engaging for our customer base. We did, though still have conversations, interestingly enough, the photos that I'd say I prefer from a brand perspective, those with people in them significantly underperform those of just flowers.Stephanie:Oh, interesting. This is a piece of tech that you guys were utilizing to figure out which ones like, which images would you best?Seth:Yeah. I actually don't know how precise it is, but it certainly helped us. We didn't need that to tell us that people underperformed flowers, but even just different variants of a similar image, they were able to pretty convincingly predict which one was going to outperform. Obviously we are betting on engagement, at least these measurable engagement statistics mattering. I think one of the hardest things in social is understanding what matters and what doesn't. Like I said, having our Instagram following at 150,000 versus at 30,000, where it was, we think that is directionally very good, is that, can I quantify what that means for our company? No. Will we continue to push to increase our reach. Absolutely. Are we seeing that increased reach is translating into direct revenue? Yes. Is that our only goal? No.Seth:Do we know the relationship between directly attributable revenue and non-attributable revenue? No, we have no idea if that even is the same month over month. But these investments that we made in a resource, training her, we actually had some, at one point also gave a green light to bring on an intern so that our full-time hire could manage up and start to add strategy to how she was thinking through, not just executing every day, and that's been great. We talked about that. How much is this going to cost? What is this person going to do? It was a pretty quick decision. But because it wasn't a ton of money, but even there, what I think is still critical is that someone comes to the table with that analysis done that's thoughtful, and that they seek to justify any investment, whether it's $100,000 or $1 million or $1,000.Seth:It just gets people in the discipline habit of understanding that money is going to be invested or not across teams, and it's not ... there's not an infinite amount of it. Stephanie:That's very cool. Now that your social person is able to start managing up, what kind of tactics or strategies are they hoping to implement over the next couple of years? What are they saying they believe in, or they want to try or test out?Seth:Yeah. I think a big buzz word in social is influencer. One of the things I've said is, if Oprah came out and endorsed UrbanStems, I don't know if that would even help us because our website would probably crash. We'd be out of stock on inventory in the next 20 minutes, and we'd enrage all of our good customers who came back and sold out. So, we have to think through how we would even execute that, but the team is bullish that, that matters. So, we're trying to think through that. I certainly also believe in content. The team believes in that. So, expect the we'll invest more in content. It's no secret that video content outperforms static photo content. So, looking at that, but it's also no surprise to anyone that videos are a lot more expensive to make than taking photos.Seth:You have to figure out what your budget is. You have to still be able to test very scrappily. I still will always believe in that, some of the best content is always going to be UGC. Some of the best content is going to be filmed in an iPhone, or for suckers like me, Samsung Galaxies. It's about mixing that with the more professionally created content, figuring out where and when to spend bigger, both from a photography standpoint and from a video. For example, the team did a wonderful job. This Thanksgiving, we have a dedicated lining page, which features video for the first time on the site.Stephanie:Oh nice.Seth:I'm really excited about that, testing it and testing more of that. With everything digital, the best thing is that you can always AB test that. Even if you spent a ton of money on something, I still encourage you to AB test it, to ensure that it's working. If you want to AB tested at 80% with the video and 20% control without so that you get more out there, that's fine. It'll just take a little longer to get the results of that test.Stephanie:Yeah, that's great. I appreciate you letting us look into the future with you and your team. I'm sure that you're probably like, ah, I don't want people bringing this up anymore. That's so three years ago. However, it came to my mind when you were talking about Oprah and if she were to endorse you guys and you could sell out, and their website will crash. It brings me back to, of course what happened in 2017 that I think a lot of people could learn from, who are listening, around, I think there was like a Valentine's day snafu where you had too many orders and the website maybe crashed or something. Tell me a little bit about that and what you guys have ... what actually happened, what are the details on it? I know you weren't there, but what are the details? What have you learned from it? And what do things look like today?Seth:Yeah. No, I wasn't, but I don't think that's the sort of important part of the story. I think, in three short words, we messed up. We did not fully understand how we were going to execute the holiday. It was unfortunate that it was on Valentine's day, which is one of these two days a year that everyone looks to flower companies to sort of solve their buying need, which is to get flowers delivered. We were better at marketing than we were at executing that year. We learned a lot. I think that that's the most important thing, which is we learned that we needed a more sophisticated plan. That plan needed to be backed by data. To be honest, this is why I came in. This is why Ajay asked me to come into the business, which was to help figure it out for the next year.Seth:The first thing I did was I talked to people. I got the stories. I started sharing those stories around to make sure that they matched with what people thought went wrong. I started to look at data, and data helped me craft a plan. One thing that I actually think I did really well is that we had the data and we had the plan, and we just kept going over the plan. I think that is one of those things that, for people who would like to move quickly, can infuriate you. It's infuriated me at times. The number of times that I think we had to go over the plan or that we went over it was well into the double digits, just reviewing and reviewing, but we were successful and it wasn't just that we fixed everything from the previous year.Seth:In fact, we had to make changes that had nothing to do with people making mistakes. We had just pushed too many orders into certain physical facilities than we could handle. Our tech had not been robustly tested to meet the peak needs by a combination of looking at data and incorporating feedback from people who had gone through it. We were able to create a plan that was, again, based in numbers and efficiency metrics, and a realistic execution, still stretched by all means. We did not pull back. But to the credit of Ajay, he brought me in, and he gave me the green light to bring in some additional resources, which I did. We did some new things. We delivered for the first time in the company's history via a third party parcel carrier that allowed us to take orders that we otherwise wouldn't have been able to take.Seth:We had an on-time rate of about 98% to 99%. So, it was a nice reversal from the previous year. The way we phrase it with the team is, it's three and a half years ago, so it's, we don't dwell on it. But we do remember it, and we remember it as a way of motivating ourselves to make sure that our plans have been vetted, thought through, are based in data and have been shared with the team well enough in advance so they feel confident in their ability to execute them.Stephanie:Yep. What are some of the biggest data points that you looked at? When you were coming in or when you reviewed what actually happened, what were some of the biggest things that stood out where you were like, oh, was it the website crashing because it was the tech stack? Was it the supply chain? What specific things were the biggest contributors that maybe any new company can learn from of like, oh, if I'm setting up a similar type business, I need to look for this, this and this. If Oprah decides to come out and give me a shout out.Seth:Yeah. And Oprah, if you're listening, we will still take the shout out.Stephanie:Yeah, send it our way.Seth:But I think the challenge was, when I got ... everyone thought it was everything. It was really important to help people compartmentalize. It actually brought me back to a course in business school. I feel like, in many respects, I was one of the only people, one of the only ones of my friends who actually learned something in business. I remember taking an operations course and it talked about a factory that made, I forget if it was chocolates or chairs, it almost doesn't matter, and they said it was an assembly line and it took a minute to make the first chocolate. The chocolate had to go through, it doesn't even matter, let's call it six steps that each took 10 seconds, and it said, how many chocolates can you make in an hour? I got it wrong.Seth:I said, well, you can make 60. It takes a minute to make each chocolate. It turns out that there were six, like I said, six steps, each were 10 seconds. So, you can actually make six a minute, or 360 an hour. My mind was blown. It was really cool to figure out how an assembly works, what throughput is. I went to a Chipotle just to observe it in action, to find out what the bottleneck was and to figure out actually how a company like Chipotle does an amazing job at lunchtime. It's actually the cashier who typically is the bottleneck. So, you can see they add an extra cashier. Sometimes it's the first person who has to do both your burrito and the meat. So, you'll see they have an extra person who just does the meat. If you ever want to understand operations one-on-one in action, go to a Chipotle at peak time.Stephanie:Oh, that's good. I'll be looking at police so differently now.Seth:What really I just had to understand, and what was clear to me is they hadn't really done that kind of analysis to look at throughput, how many orders can be packed out. We also have to ... people kept telling you what the bottleneck is. The bottleneck is basically where your business chokes, what's the slowest part of your operation. People kept telling me things that ... and then I would say, well, how long does it take to do this? And I would write down the answer, and the numbers they gave me did not match with it being a bottleneck, which either meant that it wasn't the bottleneck, or that it took a lot longer than what they thought.Seth:The key thing was keep digging, keep trying to understand, is it ... because at the end of the day, the math will be the truth that you can use. But if your assumption is based on faulty math, then it's just garbage math. So, you have to look at the operation in action and you have to understand, so for example, with us printing out these custom note cards, whereas it's the note that you wanted for your mother for Mother's Day, right? That's what makes every UrbanStems order unique, besides the fact that you get to pick the bouquet you want and the ad-ons that are specific to your order, which took a lot of technological build hardware and software, to be honest, but it's that note card.Seth:I was told, "This is our bottleneck," and I said, "Well, how long does it take to print a note card?" And they said, "Five seconds." I said, well, it takes a lot longer to pack out an order than five seconds. That can't be. But then I started to lean in, and it turns out that they would print 20 of these note cards at a time, and then they would organize these into a folder, and then they would put the folder away, and then they would bring the folder back out when they were ready to pack out. What was five seconds, when I did all the math, ended up being a minute, and you couldn't even do them one by one, like in the chocolate example, because you had to get 20 chocolates assembled at once. You had to wait for 20 of those chocolates to go down to the end of the assembly line before. So, if you ever got behind, the time to catch up was significant.Stephanie:Oh, wow. That's really Interesting, about like something where you're like, oh no, that's not the problem. Then being like, oh, actually your process is the biggest part of the problem.Seth:Exactly. This is a very cool evolution. People who have not been at the company for at least two years, don't understand. With a bottleneck, you have two solutions. You either make it more effective or you add resources to the bottleneck. The first year that's what we did. We had five of our most analytical people, five very smart people who just on Valentine's day helped us print them. As absurd as that sounds, that's what we did. We just overwhelmed the process with resources. This past year, the tech team and the supply chain team got together and they completely reinvented. Now, every single order is sent to a specific person's queue that ties to their physical desk, and there's a printer at every station and that printer prints out one note card at a time that's tied to that a specific order. Now, it takes five seconds to print an old card, and it is no longer a bottleneck.Stephanie:Yeah. That's great. It seems like there'd be a lot less room for things to get lost. I mean, if everything's in a folder and you're trying to sort through it, [crosstalk] maybe picking up the wrong notes and you'd be like, hey grandma, and be like, oh, this is the wrong note that got sent out. It seems a lot more. Yeah. You're not going to have any errors doing it this way now.Seth:Yeah. The error rate, both reported and for sure, actual declined. We also saw that our throughput overall went up by 50%, 60%, 70%, and we could train people on this new system much faster. Those five people that I mentioned that had to be in that room on Valentine's day now don't have to be in that room.Stephanie:Yep. That was very good reminders about bottlenecks. I think it's very encouraging for every new brand to kind of look into that and really dive deep. So, yeah, I love that example. All right. The couple of minutes left, let's jump over to the lightning round brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. This I'm going to ask you a question and you have a minute or less to answer. Are you ready, Seth?Seth:I am ready.Stephanie:All right. We'll start with the hardest one first. What one thing will have the biggest impact on ecommerce in the next year?Seth:The one thing that'll have the biggest impact on ecommerce is FedEx and UPS.Stephanie:Okay. Tell me a bit more.Seth:Yeah. Their ability to grow and sustain their supply chains and deliver on time is going to be critical to, in the next 13 months, they're going to have two holiday seasons, and either a lot of happy customers or a lot of unhappy customers. It'll be really interesting, your 800 pound gorilla. Amazon is highly confident because they've largely disintermediated their over-reliance on UPS. In fact, FedEx and Amazon, they're divorced for the most part. I think that their ability to continue to shift to ecommerce to add Saturday and Sunday delivery nationwide to do FedEx, and UPS delivery to do ground deliveries next day, seven days a week, based on a previous day pickup, all of these things are going to either allow ecommerce to continue to blossom or hold it back. Also, what's very unclear is how much they're going to raise rates in January. Typical years call it 3% to 6%. There is a lot of concern that they could be above, and potentially well above that 6%, and what does that do to demand?Stephanie:Yep. Yeah, that's a really good answer. What one topic or thing do you wish you knew more about?Seth:One topic or a thing.Stephanie:[crosstalk] technology or ...Seth:I've been in and around physical product ecommerce businesses. I think getting more in the data and technology side is always the right ... that is always the future. I love being in consumer businesses. I love the ability to ask almost anyone about the product or service that I'm working with and trying to lead forward and getting their opinion and having that opinion matter. That's the joy and the challenge of ecommerce, but certainly getting deeper into data, getting deeper in technology is something I'm going to encourage anyone, especially anyone young, certainly what I'm going to get my kids into.Stephanie:Yep. I love that. If you were to have a podcast, what would it be about, and who would your first guest be?Seth:I think it would be about brands that do it right. I think that I so admire people who build iconic brands, and it goes back to this consumer side of things, but to me, it's looking at these revered brands and whether they are the Phil Knights, Nikes of the world, Reed Hastings and Netflix, or some lesser known smaller brands. I'm always so impressed with people who take the leap to do it. Those, especially who do it without raising significant amounts of capital and create something that just clicks and resonates with consumers, because I think we can all learn that. I find that I've been around companies that have done a nice mix of brand and execution, that have focused so much on execution. I think it's something that I'm good at, and I've been around other people that have been good at it. Maybe it's because of that, that I so admire the folks, those creative, just truly creative visionaries on the branding side.Stephanie:I love that. And who would you pick to bring on as your first guest?Seth:Who would I pick to bring on as my first guest? I guess, not that Reed Hastings would agree, but Netflix ...Stephanie:He might.Seth:Netflix so transformed and based on an industry that could have gotten there, had they seen it coming. In fact, I think at some point he had discussed with them with blockbuster buying out the business, and they dismissed him. I'm sure he has fabulous stories. I'm not so interested in actually the last three years where they've been a powerhouse. I'm really interested in those first years when he struggled, when he kept the faith when things were not going well, how he saw the future when others didn't, how he pivoted from CDs delivered, when he knew it was the time to digital and build something big and special, how he hired people in those early years and got them convinced it was going to be big and special. Those are the questions that are ... and/or now getting the best and the brightest is easy, given the company that they've built. But it's those early years that I'd be really excited to learn about.Stephanie:Yep. Yeah, I love that. I think we have the same kind of passion, and you would probably like one of our other podcasts called the story, because it's about people like that. We did retastings Phil Knight, We do Elon Musk, and it talks about the early days, how they got started and then you guess their identity at the end, because you wouldn't actually all the things they went through to build the companies that they did. You have to check that out.Seth:Very good. I will.Stephanie:All right, Seth. Well, this has been a great interview. Where can people find out more about you and UrbanStems?Seth:Yeah, UrbanStems is the company name and it's also our website, so urbanstems.com will get you there. If you want, you can also reach out to me, seth.goldman@urbanstems. I'd be happy to chat with you. I'd be happy to provide you with a promo code on your first order. We love people enjoying flowers, and more importantly, we love people sending gratitude to people that they care about.Stephanie:Awesome. Love that. Thanks so much, Seth.Seth:Thank you so much, Stephanie. Bye.

We all need a silver lining in the midst of a dark time.  I'm talking about some of my favorites from this COVID-19 pandemic, including: trends in podcasting, prayer, and spiritual awakening... the rise of my own anxiety and what I've learned about my faith...  the increased compassion for the homebound, imprisoned, and minorites.  Also, my favorite blooper from the office was talked about on John Krasinski's new YouTube show.  It's time stamped in the link below.  Michael & Jim's Funniest Blooper Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org  

Steve Cuss joins us with an extremely helpful perspective and practical insights into identifying some of the sources of our anxiety.  Because they often come in similar patterns, it gives us the power to recognize them and work through them, especially in light of the Gospel.  Steve is a pastor of a church near Denver Colorado, and has a book on leadership I highly recommend. Steve's Book: Managing Leadership Anxiety Steve's Social Media: Twitter Instagram   Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org

Anxiety has very obvious and predictable patterns.  Once you understand them, you'll be able to more easily recognize when anxiety is driving your life or the culture around you.  Dr. Greg Mitchell is one of my closest friends and mentors and now you get to benefit from his amazing wisdom.  Of all the episodes on my channel... THIS IS A MUST LISTEN. Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org

Have you ever wondered where anxiety begins?  I take a look through the lens of biblical theology and psychology to trace the idea of anxiety into something we can all relate to.   Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org      

Have you ever wondered where anxiety begins?  I take a look through the lens of biblical theology and psychology to trace the idea of anxiety into something we can all relate to.   Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org      

The term anxiety is one that is used so widely and broadly it can almost become a place holder for just about any negative emotion or experience.  It makes an important topic very convoluted and confusing.  I have found incredible insight and wisdom from Family Systems Theory, otherwise known as Bowen Theory, which offers a great perspective on the idea of anxiety and its role in our lives.  Although this is a secular psychological theory, I have found that it articulates some things really well that align with my Christian theology.    Books I mentioned for further reading: Failure of Nerve by Edwin Friedman Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org

Neli Atiga has experienced life and church on levesl of diversity that few will.  Bringing his musical background and unique cultural upbringing to the realm of leadership in the church, he has invaluable contributions to worship culture and how to do so in increasingly diverse environments.  Whether you are a worship leader or just a worshiper, this conversation is needed in our modern and pluralistic contexts. Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org

When Norman Nakanishi was confronted with either attending a porn festival or failing a college course, Norman Nakanishi had a difficult decision to make.  It was a moment that marked his life and set his life and has shaped his relationship with Jesus and his leadership ever since.  Norman is now the Senior Pastor of Grace Bible Church on Oahu.  They have planted multiple churches and congregations around the Island, mainland and oversees.   Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org

It was the Fall of 1998 and I was just vacuuming my dorm room in peace.  I had no idea that the knock I heard on the door was about to forever change my life and eternity.  Join me for this trip down memory lane with one of the most important people in my life, Tory Campbell, and hear the encouraging story of what happens when a little bit of faith and boldness steps out to see what God might do.     Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org    

Ep #18: What do you do with doctrinal disagreements within the church?  How do you handle the controversial issues of our day?  The 4 D's represent things that we are willing to "Die for, Divide for, Debate for, and Decide for."  Dr. Gerry Breshears has been an academic advisor and personal mentor to my life, and his presence within the body of Christ crosses all kinds of boundaries that few people are able to do.  His wisdom and spirit of humility and unity is worth learning from.     Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org

Ep. #17: Healthy culture never just happens and Clayton Bell has always been a helpful and humorous conversation partner around this topic.  You'll enjoy getting to know this great leader of Trinity New Life Church.   For those interested: here's the link to see the hotel Clayton and I spoke of in Orlando.  It has housed several leadership meetings and stolen our masculinity in the process.  The purple castle Clayton's church: Trinity New Life Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org

2018 was a year filled with all kinds of crazy things.  This was the first full year of this podcast.  Thanks to everyone for listening and for all the encouraging feedback!  Lots of great things coming next year so stay tuned.....  Today I'm joined by my good friend Adrian Crawford to digest this year and some of the interesting happenings.  We'll be discussing the Royal wedding, South Korea's dog meat industry, Thanos eliminating half the population, our political polarity, Fortnite, and Chance the Rapper... Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org   Follow Adrian: Facebook: Adrian Crawford Instagram: @adriancrawford5 Twitter: @adriancrawford Adrian's Website and New Rules Podcast

Tim Mackie is a resident of Portland, Oregon and has his PhD in Hebrew.  He is also one of the co creators of the Bible Project.  They have develop short animated videos that explore all kinds of topics related to the books and themes of the Bible.  Tim's background and story is as unlikely as it is amazing.   Check out all the amazing resources at The Bible Project.   Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org

It's been said that a little bit of science will lead you away from God, but a lot of science will bring you right back.  That's certaily been true of the Journey for Dr. Brian Miller.  With a PhD in physics from Duke University and his undergrad at MIT, his passion for science has been exposed to some of the brightest minds in the world.  After losing his faith early in his studies, he found that the deeper he studied the more it brought him back to the plausibility of God.  Not only does he find compelling evidence for God through scientific study, but he does so with a level of intelligence and honesty that is rare to find. Find more info and tons of resouces at Discovery.org/ID Brian's Book Recommendations: Signature In The Cell Darwin's Doubt Undeniable Zombie Science   Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org

Ep #13: We met over a haircut.  How does a pastor and his barber build a relationship that eventually leads to Jesus?  Well the ride was a little crazy at times, but it was never boring.  Garrett Vogler is a good friend of mine and his story of finding Jesus should encourage and challenge a lot of people out there.   Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org

Ep. #11 There's no question that our world is only getting busier. More actiity, more information, mor stimulation.  With all of this one the rise, anxiety and burnout seem to be going right along with it.  My good friend Adam Mabry is the lead pastor of Alethia Church which has 3 locations anchored in Boston.  He leads a great church in the heart of a difficult area to do church.  He has his own personal journey with this topic and wrote an incredible book on it.  He stops by to talk about the art of rest and just how vital it is increasingly becoming in our world. Adam's New Book: The Art of Rest Adam's Twitter: @AdamMabry Adam's Facebook: @PastorAdamMabry   Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org

Ep #10: Russ Austin and Phil Bonasso have been close friends for over 30 years.  They have seen a lot of highs and lows together, but there is an undeniable joy that is experience whenever you are around the two of them.  If you've ever wondered how to build friendships that both deepen your walk with God and stand the test of time, you need to hear these guys and their story. Pastor Russ's Teachings: South Point Community Church Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org

Ep #9: Jospeh Bonifacio oversees over 400 campus minsiters and 18,000 students in the Philipines.   The scale and magnitude that he works wouldn't necessarily lead you to think he'd be as humble and down to eart as he really is.  This conversation will range from all kinds of ministry experiences that he and i deal with in very different contexts but with very similar goals.   Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org   Follow Joseph: Instagram: @joesephbonifacio Twitter: @josephbonifacio Facebook: @josephbonifacio Joseph's Blog

Ep #8: Adrian Crawford comes back for his second guest appearance as we talk about Black Panther, The Greatest Showman, Wonder Woman, and this cultural moment at large.     Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org   Follow Adrian: Facebook: Adrian Crawford Instagram: @adriancrawford5 Twitter: @adriancrawford Adrian's Website and New Rules Podcast

We are celebrating our 100th Episode by bringing you portions of the best podcasts selected by the FCM Team. Stacey, X, Jerricho, Logan, and Seth are all interviewed regarding their favorite FCMS episode and share why that guest was the most memorable for them. We want to thank all of our listeners for their continued support. We will return all new and all fresh on Monday, March 26th with our MADE IT IN MUSIC Podcast.————————————Episode 100Full Circle Music Show– Hi, I'm Seth Mosley from Full Circle Music, and man am I excited, this is episode 100 of our Full Circle Music Show podcast, and not only that, the day that we're making a massive announcement. And what is that announcement? It's that we are re-branding. Yes, we're changing the format, the title, everything of our podcast to make it even more packed with value, for free, for you guys. And the new title, drum roll please, is the Made It in Music Podcast, by Full Circle Music. It's resources for music makers just like you who wanna go full-time in music, and stay in. So I just wanted to do something a little special on this episode to go along with the announcement of the Made It in Music Podcast, episode 100, and what we're doing this week is we're bringing you a best of episode. We picked our very favorite moments from the Full Circle Music Show and broke down just some really key points, things that we think you would get a lot out of, things that we personally got a lot out of. I'm Seth Mosley, thank you so much for listening. Here with Stacey Willbur, VP of publishing and A&R here at Full Circle Music. Man, I loved that you picked the Ginny Owens episode, 'cause it was one of my favorite not only podcast episodes, but what a lot of people who're maybe gonna go back and listen to this clip don't realize is that it was recorded at one of our Full Circle Academy songwriter retreats. And man, if I haven't told you already, the people that you have relationships with that you've been able to bring in to pour into our students is just absolutely incredible. So Ginny was one of those, she was at our last one, and I feel like I probably got more feedback on her than a lot of speakers that come in. That's where this podcast was recorded at. So what stood out to you about that, what made you pick that as your favorite moment?– Well, it was my favorite moment because, obviously 'cause we were there, we were actually in the moment, it was an experience. It was Ginny talking about very simple things, three key elements of songwriting. But what I loved about it is that she weaved her own story into all three of those elements. I loved hearing her story wrapped up into all of that.– Yeah, she talked about it being, something that I had not heard, and I think you said the same thing, that she compares songwriting to being a journey with a friend.– A journey with a friend, that was like an a-ha moment, I think, for so many, because I don't think everybody looks at it that way. It's a job, it's this, but as a friend, and the closer you get to a friend, you get to know each other, you get to know their hearts, you get to know their stories, and the same thing with songwriting. The more you spend time… Writing every day, getting to know your craft, understanding the different elements of songwriting, the better you become and the better you know yourself as a songwriter.– Yeah, and she talks about how it is a sought after treasure, too, I thought that was such a cool way to put it. What did she mean by that?– Well, it was interesting 'cause she said it was a sought after treasure pursued by an enemy. Which, the enemy, as she describes, are distractions. The distractions in your life that keep you from doing the thing that you love doing. So what are those things and how do you keep those distractions from keeping you from doing what God's plan and purpose is for your life, which is songwriting.– Yeah, and I think, man, she just… There's podcast episodes that we've done that I feel like I just kinda wish I had like a notepad the whole time, 'cause she just kinda drops quote after quote after quote, and one thing that you shared with me, that I totally agree with is that good is the enemy of great, and perfection is the enemy of creativity. That was, I thought that was brilliant when she said that.– Yeah, and I think, especially in this industry, we hear a lot of, oh, that's a good song, that's a good song, that's a good song. And we tend to leave it there, and we don't encourage each other to strive for the great. I think striving for the great is harder. ‘Cause it takes going back and rewriting, it takes time and effort. The good is, yeah, this is good, you know. But the great, I think, is you dig it in a little deeper. And she really shares that in the podcast, she shares the struggles that she went through as an artist. And just in her life personally to get to that point.– Yeah, so good. Well I'm really glad you picked it 'cause it's one of my favorite moments too.– Awesome.– Here's a clip from Ginny Owens on the Full Circle Music Show live from the Full Circle Academy songwriter's retreat.– [Ginny] I want to offer, just based on my experience as a songwriter over the past billion years, I wanna offer three key elements of a life of endless songwriting bliss. So three key elements to maintaining a songwriting life. So the first one is, songwriting is a journey with a friend. Show up every day so that you can go a little further together. Songwriting is an art form. The more you know the rules and master the skill, the freer you will be to let your heart guide the process. And, songwriting is a sought after treasure guarded by an enemy. In order to capture it, you must fight every day of your life. Listening, like, two different types of listening that I call active and passive listening. So, I really love pop music, so active listening for me is like, when I work out in the mornings, just rolling the Apple, new Apple, like whatever, pop playlist, or what they're playing at Apple List or Spotify, you know, playlist, and learning. What are they doing in the songs that you're hearing that you like? How are they creating hooks? What do the rhythm things sound like that they're doing. Things like, Chainsmokers came along and they sort of created this chorus, where you don't have to soar up in the top, you just do this, like, ♪ Baby hold me closer in the backseat — ♪ I probably shouldn't be singing that at the Christian — But you know, it's just this tiny little space of a chorus. So there are trends that you start to see as you listen to music. If you're a songwriter-ish type person, more of a James Taylor type person, then you can listen to current people that do that, like James Bay or John Mayer. Hear what they're doing, sort of study their technique. But the other thing is passive listening. And what I guess I mean by that is falling in love with music. One of the things I've recently discovered about myself is that I'm too busy thinking about… Analyzing songs, and I actually need to go fall in love with music again, 'cause it's just too easy to be critical. And so what I've learned is, probably the easiest way to do this, which is not something that streaming really lends itself towards, but to go get people's albums. And just listen to the full album and continue to immerse myself in it, and be patient. ‘Cause I'm sure, maybe some of you guys are like this too, I'm so impatient. I'll listen to half a song and then I flip to the next song. That does not create and inspire love for music. I think those things are key for deepening our skillsets, growing our skillsets, educating ourselves. And then there's another aspect, just as we talk about kind of this skill of songwriting. It's really simple, but I think it's really important, especially for new writers, and I kind of call it the accessibility scale. So on one end you have the more cerebral, the more personal kind of songs. Those are the songs you write for your grandma, or your brother, or a wedding. And then on the other end are the more super-commercial songs. So like, Bon Iver is super cerebral. Taylor, super commercial. Andrew Peterson is pretty cerebral. Tomlin, Jordan Feliz, super commercial. And so the more cerebral a song is, the more it's kinda written to please the writer. So most of those things fall kind of more in the middle, they're not generally purely one or the other. But the more cerebral, form matters less, it's kinda in the writer's head, and obviously the more commercial a song is, the more singable it is, the more melodic, the more many people can kinda follow what you're doing. You gotta know the difference. If you wanna write commercial, study it, learn the techniques, listen to the Full Circle podcast every week, because there's an art to expressing yourself that way. But if you're gonna write about family, if you're gonna write something super personal, don't let that out for critique, 'cause you don't want to hurt yourself in that way. You know what I mean? Protect the things that are really personal to you. And the more you kind of know the skill and the art of songwriting, the more you're gonna know how to do that. Skill, taking the journey, ultimately helps with our biggest challenge as songwriters, which is fighting for your songwriting. And if you don't believe me, I bet you do. Everybody probably believes that it's a fight. Songwriting is a treasure that's guarded by an enemy. And so in order to capture it, you must fight every day of your life. Not to be all dark and wage war-ish, but, we gotta wage some war. The hardest part of songwriting is what? Songwriting. You know, you always got something else to do. Or there's always a voice in your head that says not to do it. And I promise, lest you think it only happens to new writers I have this happen every day. I've just finally learned, oh, this is part of it. This is what I'm gonna fight every day. And especially when you've been doing it a long time, you can kinda even get more in your head, 'cause you're like, what if I don't know how to do anything current? So if you give up, then the enemy will win. So what exactly is the enemy? I do like how Kevin Pressfield, who wrote the Legend of Bagger Vance, but he has a book called The War of Art which I would highly recommend you all read. There's some swearing, but read it anyway. But he calls the enemy resistance. And he says any act that entails commitment of the heart is a reason for resistance. In other words, any act that rejects immediate gratification in favor of long term growth, health, or integrity, or any act that derives from our higher nature instead of our lower, will elicit resistance. Resistance cannot be seen, touched, heard, or smelled, but it can be felt. And the more important – get this. The more important a call or action is to our soul's evolution, the more resistance we will feel toward pursuing it. Ouch. And resistance takes all different forms. Sometimes it's you, right? It's the lack of discipline. That's what it is for me, a lot. I just wanna do all the other fun things. And I wanna think about songwriting, really I do. But, maybe I'll get to it. That's why scheduling is so key. And there are voices in your head, and that's why scheduling and showing up every day is so key. It diminishes the voices, I promise you. Sometimes it's 'cause you got a eat, and so you gotta work. So that's also why finding that time every week and putting it on a calendar can be so awesome to do. Another key in fighting resistance is knowing the people who are in your space. Knowing the people who are awesome and can hold you accountable, like probably some folks you've met here, and learning the people who are not safe for you to play music for. Another way to protect what you're writing, and who the safe people are not, when you're fighting resistance. Now, for those of us who are believers, who are people of faith, we know there is a deeper resistance from an enemy that is full-on against you. And especially when it comes to pursuing a gift that God has given you to inspire others.– X O'Connor. I love it, we're here in the studio on this exciting day, episode 100.– 100.– Recapping some of our favorite moments from the Full Circle Music show, and… Tyler Bryant.– Tyler Byant, man.– Good choice.– Man, my favorite, dude, we sat down with him, I remember it was kind of last minute, I got a call early in the morning like, hey, I think we're gonna do some Tyler Byrant interview today. So I remember driving down, and I was super pumped, I'd loosely known him from being in bands around Nashville and I was like, I love this dude's music, I'm excited to talk to this guy. And to sit down with him, he's a young kid, you know, and he's just got his head on in a way that very few other artist, songwriters, any musical person does, he just realizes that hard work comes above all else, everything in life. And this guy, his band is successful, but not necessarily at radio. No real radio number ones, no nothing like that, but he plays hundred thousand seat venues. It's like, that blows my mind. And to just hear him speak about hard work. No one's gonna work harder for you than you're gonna work for yourself, so take every opportunity that you've got and just make something out of it.– Yeah, I love it, and I think he even shared in the episode something about, they do a lot in Europe.– Yeah.– And I think a fan, they were playing somewhere in Spain and a fan had like, tooken a night train like across…– Across the continent, literally.– The entire continent to get there, and they were so pumped about it. And you can just tell that when an artist is engaged, and the fans can tell that you really care, as the artist, they're gonna care.– Yeah, absolutely, and… that was something that he also spoke about a lot in this interview is relationship building. Not just with the people around you, but with the fans. The fans can feel that level of commitment that you have to them. But then on the business side, too. They've been around labels and all that stuff a lot, and I just love the mentality of, be honest with the people you're with. Even if it's a hard conversation to have with somebody, the honesty is gonna preserve that relationship in the future. I think he talked about them leaving their label to kind of go out on their own, and the conversation he had with the label after the fact, like, hey, you guys are still always on the list at a Shakedown show, come out any time, you guys worked hard for us, just, it's time for us to go do something else. And I love that mentality.– Yeah, and we went and saw them in Nashville at… Was it 12th?– 3rd and Lindsley.– 3rd and Lindsley, which is a really cool venue. And it was one of the best live shows I think I've ever seen.– Yeah, they go for it. It's so tight, but it's just raw rock and roll. It was a fun night, I hadn't been to a show like that in a while.– No click tracks.– No click, it's just guys on stage just going for it, rock and rolling. I loved it, man, it was so much fun to just sit there and just, be like, yep, these guys own it. This is great.– Inspiring.– Inspiring, for sure.– Well here's a clip from the Full Circle Music show episode with Tyler Bryant of Tyler Bryant and the Shakedown.– [Tyler] We've talked about it a little bit, but I come from a blues background, I learned to play from an old bluesman in Texas. Even as a kid, I was offered a record deal, and it was like, we're gonna set you up with other kids and we're gonna start a band, and I was like, no, man, I just wanna play the blues. I wanna make, like, I remember Lyric Street records gave me a little $10,000 check to go make some recordings. I think they were legitimately upset when I handed them back like three Freddie King covers that I had made. You know, it's like, what did you expect, man? And I still kinda have that mentality where, I don't know if you guys ever have dove into this on your show, I'm sure you have, 'cause it's something that I feel like a lot of artists struggle with. It's mixing art, something that really moves you, and commerce. Let's eat and let's survive, and so all we try to do in our band is have a little bit of both, you know?– [X] Yeah, yeah. So touring has been your bread and butter. Let's just talk about that, how do you get invited out on a AC/DC or Guns ‘n Roses Tour without radio, without big number one chart topping songs?– [Tyler] It's hard to say, honestly. I think one, you gotta believe in what you're doing, you have to be convicted every time you put on a guitar. Whether it's in a writing room, whether it's in a coffee shop. That's what, you know, I have kids ask me at our shows who have bands, like, how do you get on these tours, how do you get these shows going? And it's like, you literally play every show you get offered. Whenever I was starting out, I had a fake email account. And I was the band's manager, my name was like Sarah, or something like this, and I represented, this was before the Shakedown, I represented Tyler Bryant.– [X] What's the Spinal Tap manager?– [Tyler] Yeah, and it would, there was another time where it's like, I literally called the box office of the House of Blues. This is when I was younger, I called them every single day until they finally told one of the booking agents, this guy won't stop calling, he wants to play. And he called me and was like, dude, you can't call the box office and book a show. And I was like, but, can you book me?– [X] Yeah– [Tyler] And he's like send me some recordings. So I sent him some recordings and some videos and he put my band on for Dickie Betts. And then I called the Dallas morning news, and I was like, my band's playing, opening up for Dickie Betts of the Allman Brothers, I think you should come film it and do a story. And they did, and it's that kind of hustle that I think is, what I've learned that we have to do because it's, any time we've waited on someone else to do something for us we fall short, and so it's, I think those, it's funny because we were at CAA, the booking agency for a long time, and they did great things for us, and after about a year and a half of not touring as much as we'd like, we thought, let's make a change, let's move agencies. But we had such a good relationship with our agent that he'd become family, it's a guy named John Huie. And so we left. We were on the road supporting Billy Gibbons from ZZ Top and I get a call from Huie going, he's just like, I love you guys and I wanted to know if it would be okay if I pitched you for the AC/DC world tour. And, of course we said yes, but this is someone who's not our agent. So that's where… Maintaining relationships, and always shooting people straight, and even if it's a tough conversation going, like, I think we have to move somewhere else, because we're not getting the love here. They kill it with country acts out of Nashville, and I'm sure that the rock department does great, too. We just weren't getting the love that we needed. Because maybe what we were doing didn't move them there, but I think even when a relationship has to stop, it doesn't – professionally, it doesn't have to stop emotionally and I think that's, you know. We're all from the South and believe in Southern hospitality and shooting people straight even when it's a tough conversation, and I think that's helped benefit our band.– [X] Well I love that, because there's so many bands that we come across that are just constantly complaining about their teams. They're like, my label's not doing this, my manager's not doing this, we don't have our publisher getting songs on sync, our publicist is not scheduling – it's just excuses and complaining about people not doing stuff for them. And what I'm hearing you say is like, screw that, do it yourself.– [Tyler] Oh yeah, absolutely. We just made our own record, and I called a few of the people from Universal Republic after we got out of our deal, and it was sort of an, I think both parties were like, this isn't really working for us. We weren't giving them what they need to do what they do best, and they were like, you guys just aren't setting yourself up to win. But I talked to a few people from the label who were like, wait, you guys aren't with us anymore? It's like hey, listen, you're always on the guest list at a Shakedown show, you guys come out, thanks for putting in the work, man. Because it's hard to find people to work for you, and it's hard to find people who will work as hard as you will, so you have to do it yourself. Or at least, even like when it comes to making music videos or setting up photo shoots, or finding the direction. I feel like that has to come from the artist, because I feel like a lot of artists fall short when they're waiting on someone else to show them the direction.– Here at Full Circle Music studios with Jericho Scroggins.– Hey, hey.– Thanks for being on the show today, buddy.– Thank you for having me.– I love the clip that you picked, it was a Michael W. Smith interview, it was honestly one of my favorite ones to do. Why don't you talk just a little bit about what stood out to you from that, and why people should go back and listen to it?– Yeah. The initial part of it is how he was talking about the start of his career, and even how that's when he got married with Debbie, that was like in '81. So when the Amy Grant thing and all that kind of stuff, it was a very busy time for his career. And so they saw a bunch of marriages around that time falling apart. And so he does think it's hard for people to tour 200, 250 shows a year and keep a healthy marriage. So it was super cool to hear how he… One thing I didn't know about Michael and his career was, he was never away from his family more than two weeks. And it was just, like, mind-blowing to me thinking about that, just knowing his career and that kind of stuff. And so just how he goes through and talks about the priorities of that. You do have a career, but you also have family, and making sure they know where priorities lie and stuff like that, and his family always came above his career.– Yeah, and we get to interview a lot of super achievers on the show, so it's always cool to see that, you know what, they've not only got their stuff together on a career level, 'cause obviously Michael W. Smith's the top of the top, but he was really good about keeping accountability in place, as well.– Right. Yeah, that was definitely another part of it that I really liked, because, it's not only, like, when you go out and do your thing and that kind of stuff, still keeping a good group of, a team around you, that makes sure you're still doing what you're supposed to be doing. Whether it's heart-wise, faith-wise, even mind-wise, you know what I mean? Like making sure it's, even having them help him keep accountable to making sure he makes it home every two weeks. Or being a servant on the road, and things like that.– Yeah, and another really cool thing that I think you mentioned was this idea about talking to the younger you. What did you mean by that?– Yeah, there's this cool part where, it's the giving the advice to the younger you part. And it really stood out to me when he said, if I could tell the younger me, I would say it's not about you. And what he means by that is like, just earlier on realizing… Yeah, you're given these gifts and stuff like that, but realistically the gifts help other people, it's being a servant, making sure you're using the gifts for the right reason. Everybody wants to be successful, but it's like, how you wanna be successful dictates a different way in the way you look at it, and that kind of stuff, and that's his thing. Earlier on he looked at it a little bit differently, like, how many CDs does he sell, how good was the merch and that kind of stuff, and he realized pretty early on after that, he's like, it's not about that. It's not about you. Is he reaching the lives, is he reaching other people, and I think that goes across anything we do. The stuff we work on, even we don't go out there and tour with it, but it's still putting in the 100%, because at the end of the day, it's not about me.– That's right.– It's about that.– Yeah, that's good. Well here is a clip from our Full Circle Music Show episode with Michael W. Smith.– [Seth] Thinking back over all the years being an artist I think one of the things that I struggle with and a lot of young artists, or writers, or producers struggle with is the whole balance of being a creative versus being a good family man. How have you found balance over the years to kinda keep all of that together, what's the secret for that?– [Michael] Well, we made the rule, Deb and I, when this thing started really taking off, in the Amy thing, and then did the Friends tour, Big Picture tour, we started having children.– [Seth] So you were married early.– [Michael] I got married in '81 to Deb, so it'll be 35 years this year.– [Seth] Congratulations.– Thank you.– That's amazing.– [Michael] She's awesome. But we knew, I think we probably really knew, probably when I did the Lead Me On tour, which was… Probably the most successful, other than the Change Your World tour it was probably the most successful tour I've ever been a part of, 'cause we sold out arenas, me and Amy, all around the country, and in other countries, as well. And we just started seeing people in our genre and in other genres, when it came to being entertainers and all that sort of thing that marriages were falling apart left and right. And so we, I remember just having a talk with Deb and just going, you know… If we don't make some rules, there's probably more chances of us being a casualty than not. And we're not gonna be a casualty. And so we just made the rule, I'm not gonna ever be gone more than two weeks from my family, ever. Even if I had to cross the pond, and come back, and cross it again. And I was never gone from Deb and the kids for more than two weeks. Had a little aircraft, and I don't talk about that much, it was worth every penny, I thought, I've gotta get home to my family. And a lot of times I'd do a show and I would literally walk off stage, and got in a car, and I was on the jet and I was home at midnight and I'm driving carpool at 7:15. I did that for twelve-and-a-half years. And I think if you talked to my kids, I think, I think if you could have a private one-on-one, I think they would all say, we were more important to my dad than his career was. And now I got all these young bands, I got some of these young kids are all starting to come to me and ask me exactly what you asked me. And I think that's part of my role in the future is to sort of be a fatherly role and try to help kids. I just don't think you can do 250 shows on the road and keep a family together. And they say, well, we gotta pay the bills, we gotta make the house payment. My response is, then buy a smaller house.– [Seth] Wow. Is there anything that you would kinda say to the younger you when you were first getting into it that you're like, okay, you might wanna do that a little differently. Is there anything that kinda comes to mind like that?– [Michael] Well, I think heart-wise, I mean, obviously, we all grow up, we all make mistakes. If we really are seeking the Lord, we all get a little wiser as we get older, but I'd probably go back and tell myself at 23, 24 years old, I'd probably just say dude, it's not about you. That's probably the first thing I would say. I was so, like, how many records did we sell, and did we sell any t-shirts, and it was just so like… And it's hard, 'cause you're excited, and you wanna be successful and I think I just wish I'd have seen the bigger picture a little bit. And that's probably what I'd say to these young kids going, why are you here? Reconnect with why you're here, because you're not here to be a superstar. But there's nothing wrong with being successful, at all, but it just can't drive you, it can't just encompass everything that you do, it just can't. I always say, what's your contribution, think about… Even in the hard times, and trying to get the thing off the ground, are you making a contribution, are you changing somebody's life? So, it's that kind of stuff I'd probably say, and then, if I had to say something on the musical level, I'd say it all starts with a song.– X O'Connor sitting here with Mr. Seth Mosley, founder of Full Circle Music. Getting ready to talk a little podcast action. So, your favorite episode out of the, we're at episode 100 now.– Crazy, absolutely crazy.– Yeah.– And your favorite one was with Chris Houser under very interesting circumstances, from what I remember, kinda spontane, spontaneous.– It was very spontane, I like that slang.– You know, it's kinda like pre-Fontaine, that runner guy, but it's spontane, it kinda flows off the tongue.– This was a spontane moment, we were in the car, actually on a radio tour, and one thing that I've learned by doing a podcast is, we're really, as sort of journalists, trying to bring interesting stories to our audience about stuff that they'll actually care about, you kinda just have to be ready at all times. So I've got this little pocket recorder and a couple microphones, I stuck it in the bag 'cause I felt like we might have some interesting conversations on this Matt Hammitt radio promo tour. I went out with him at the beginning of the year to promote his first single, ‘Tears', off his record. And so I just brought it with me, and we were spending a lot of time in the car, so I was like, okay, there's gonna be something good. So it was under interesting circumstances, but I think, what I've loved about our podcast is when our guests kinda just go off the rails a little bit and just feel free to tell stories, and just crazy. And Chris is such a great story teller. So it was one of my favorite episodes. And not only because of the episode itself, but really because of my story and how I met Chris in the first place. And one thing that he did that stuck out to me that I'll never forget, we touch on that in the podcast, as well.– I love it. And he's known for hitting as many radio stations as humanly possible in a very brief time. I believe you said he has a record. Do you remember what the record is?– He does have a record, he said he hit 13 stations in three days.– Now, were you a part of that 13 stations in three days?– I think we did, maybe, we might have done eight in two days.– Eight in two, that's still rather impressive.– It was a decent few. But I love it because, so often in this business we think about the result more than the relationship. And one thing that he drove home that you'll hear in this clip is that he talks about, really what he does for a living is to get to go talk to his friends about music that he loves. He actually cares about the people. And there are very few people that I know in life, let alone in music, in anything, that have spent three decades serving one group of people. And that's just dedication.– Man, you said it right there.– Yep.– It's powerful.– I'm ready to go back and listen to the episode myself.– Me too.– So let's jump into this episode with Chris Houser.– [Seth] You talked about you started tapping into your skillset which, I don't even know if you remember this but when I first moved to Nashville, I talk a lot about this on our podcast that my first record that I got was Newsboys, Take Me to Your Leader, and my first label record I produced was this one called Newsboys Born Again which you were working on.– Yes.– [Seth] And I think I met you once, maybe at Wes' house. Then I saw you, I don't know, a month later or something and you were like, hey, Seth, it's good to see you, and the fact that you even just remembered my name —– Oh, wow.– was huge.– [Seth] To me, your competitive advantage is you actually care about people and you're great with relationships.– [Chris] Thank you, man. That means a lot, and again, it's a, this is a small industry we're in, and I'm in my 30th year of promotion, radio promotion. And I think I'm starting to get it figured out, but every once in a while something comes along and surprises me, but I've seen a lot of people come in and go out from this industry, and one of my favorite clients, Brash Music, who had Aaron Shust, and Gunger, their MO was life's too short to work with jerks. And I also believe very strongly that you reap what you sow, and whatever you sow, you reap way more, and you reap way later. It's just the way it is. You can go out to a field with a handful of seeds and throw it out into the field, you don't go out the next day and say oh my gosh, look at all the growth. It takes a long time, but all the growth that comes into a field from one handful of seeds. And so I've always tried to be about sowing good seed, doing my best to love people well, and not losing myself in the process, which at times has been a challenge for me. Yeah dude, I don't remember meeting you, and I wish I did, but it's been an amazing thing to watch your trajectory as well, and to be doing this. We're on a promo tour right now.– [Seth] Yeah, that's the fun thing right now, we're out with an artist named Matt Hammitt.– [Matt] Yeah, what's up?– [Seth] We're actually promoting his new single, Tears. So this is what you do all the time, right?– [Chris] Yes, so these radio stations, we're visiting six, seven radio stations in two days, my record is 13 stations in three days.– [Seth] Wow.– [Chris] That was up in the Midwest, that involved taking a high-speed ferry across Lake Michigan, from Muskegon, Michigan over to Milwaukee, Wisconsin, dropping off one rental car, picking up another rental car and continuing to go. But these radio stations have a hard job, they've got 50 to 75 singles getting work to them every week by 30 to 35 record promoters, both between labels and indies. And so one of the ways that we get noticed is by bringing artists directly to them. And Matt is so beloved for, you know, radio stations are gonna play Lead Me every day until Jesus comes back. It's just a matter of fact, no one's gonna get tired of Lead Me by Sanctus Real. And so I never worked a Sanctus Real record, I've watched them from afar and been so impressed with them and their ministry, and so, there are other people you could go to. But you came to me to take this record to radio, I'm very honored by it, but in addition, I'm moved by it. I have to love, this is what I tell people. I make a great living talking to my friends all day long about music I love.– [Seth] That's a pretty good job.– [Chris] So I turn down the records I don't love. I take the records that move me, and the records that I love, by artists that I respect. And, I'm calling my friends, I'm not calling adversaries, I'm not talking to people at radio that I have to buffalo, or steamroll, or belittle, or slam a phone down and swear, and call them jerks behind their backs. I love these people, these are my friends, so I get to just go bring Matt and you, Seth, to my friends for the next two days. And these are people who work hard, like me, back in the day, they do it way better than me but none of them are making major amounts of money. They're doing this for love and calling, and yet, they're the venue, they're the avenue that we will go through to get this song on the air. And it's already impacting countless, thousands of people around the country in a very, very short amount of time.– [Seth] Yeah, well even, on the Sirius Highway, or Sirius XM The Message, they debuted the lyric video, we were just looking on the way up here and it's already at 37,000 views and 893 shares, which is a pretty substantial metric for a brand new label, essentially relaunching an artist.– [Chris] Yes.– [Seth] So that's a huge thing.– [Chris] Yes.– [Seth] Are you ever surprised and shocked with like a song that you think is gonna work doesn't work, or a song that you don't think is gonna work just blows up?– [Chris] Yes. I would say, my joke on that is, through years of therapy I've been able to mellow out a little bit. But there were times 10 and 15 years ago that I was sure a song was gonna be a smash, and nobody wanted it. It's like these 115 radio PDs got together in a smoky room somewhere and all decided what they were going to tell us promoters for the next year, and then they'd all go like, break! And they'd clap hands and they'd walk out. And so when I would get this massive pushback on a song, in the early days of this kinda promotion, I would go like, I don't know what a hit is anymore, I've lost it. And then I would go to the next step, I'm like, Am I even a Christian? And then I'd go all the way to like, God, are you even there, if I can't… And so, again, years of therapy have helped mellow me out, and life experience, just to get into a better spot of going, you know what, sometimes I'm wrong, a lot of times I'm right, and sometimes it's the radio stations that will say, oh, no, that's not a hit. I try to slow the no, I try to slow them down, because it's like, if you make a pronouncement, a negative pronouncement on a song this early, it's gonna be that much harder for you to admit you're wrong eight months down the line, six months down the line, let's just calm down, you tell me no now, that's fine. I'm just gonna find 20 people that you respect and get them to play the song, and we'll come back around, we'll just keep talking about it.– [Seth] And those people they respect, is that other radio promoters?– [Chris] No, no, other radio stations.– [Seth] Radio stations.– [Chris] Other radio stations. So then they're watching around to see who else, 'cause it's all defensive posturing and maneuvering. It's all, they don't wanna add a record, a radio station will say, we'll never be hurt by a record we don't play. Do you get that?– [Seth] Wow.– [Chris] We can never be hurt by a record we don't play, meaning, we might be hurt if we go too early on a song that our listeners end up not liking. So we'd rather watch the landscape and see what people are playing out here, and it's like, okay, that's fine. There are leaders, there are followers. If you need to be a follower on this, no harm, no foul, we're just gonna keep working this.– So I'm sitting here with Logan Crockett, VP of marketing for Full Circle Music and, man, what a ride it's been, we're on episode 100 on the Full Circle Music Show and we're talking about our favorites, favorite moments, and why listeners should probably go back and listen to some. And I love that you picked the Tony Wood episode. So what stood out to you about that, and why should people go back and listen?– Yeah, for sure. So with me, my perspective on the podcast is probably a little bit different from a lot of the rest of the staff. I've been around for just over a year, now actually working for Full Circle, but initially, listening to this podcast, I was, completely from the outside looking in, I was just, kinda like a lot of the people probably listening and/or watching this, someone just trying to kind of find their lane, their path in the music industry. And this episode with Tony Wood and this clip that we're about to play just really stuck out to me as something that I've never, ever forgotten. For so long, I mean I've been pursuing the music industry for years. And it always felt like, man, if you can just get kinda that one meeting with that publisher or that record later, or whatever company, just meet that right person and get that connection. If you can just do that, that's kind of hopefully the gateway to greater things, that kind of, getting that meeting, basically. But in this clip, Tony explained that it was so much more about getting meeting number two than about getting meeting number one. Because it really does make sense, getting meeting number two means that, if you had meeting number one, they have to like you enough to invite you back. And the way that Tony explained it in this clip, it was just, it was such a massive mindset shift for me because it just, it reformed my entire strategy for what I was trying to do with the music industry. It became so much more about okay, yes, meeting one obviously has to happen, but actually that's the easy part. So my goal was how do I get meeting number two? Meeting number one kinda flew out the window, and everything became about how do I score meeting number two, no matter what relationship I'm building, no matter what opportunity I'm pursuing. The goal became meeting number two.– Yeah, and in music, it's often about finding someone who is really where you want to be. And kind of emulating them. Wasn't there something that stood out in the episode about that, in particular?– Yeah he, Tony had kinda got his start thanks to someone named Tom Long, who was kinda that first person who really believed in him and helped introduce him to other people. And that was another big mindset thing for me, too, was this idea that, there's a lot in the music industry that you can control, there's a lot of things that you can do yourself to push yourself forward, but, it's going to be really, really, really difficult to get where you ultimately want to be if you're not finding someone else who can kinda elevate you. You need to find a champion, or a guide, someone who can get you further along the steps that you need to go.– I love it, and there's also this concept of, do your homework that Tony hits on, what did you mean by that, 'cause you were saying that that stood out to you.– Yeah. So yeah, again, all this stuff is in the clip that we're about to play, but Tony, it's a very kind of quick comment that Tony mentions, but when he was first meeting these other writers around town, and other publishers, he said that he did his homework on who they were and what they were up to. So basically, that really stood out to me 'cause now working for Full Circle, we have a lot of people who come through a lot of our events and things like that, but it feels like a lot of them haven't done their homework. A lot of them don't know like even, who is Full Circle and what are the different things that we do, what songs have we been working on, things like that. Normally I'm on a lot of calls with people through our academy and things like that, normally I have to completely explain almost from ground zero, what it is that we do, who we are, things like that. Not the case for everyone, but all that to say is if you are pursuing the music industry, before, and this kinda goes back into meeting one versus meeting two but before you get meeting one, make sure you do your homework, so that way you're giving your best first impression, and you're having amazing talking points when you do finally have the opportunity to sit down and have those interactions.– That's good. One thing that I love that we get to do with the academy, with our events, with courses and all of this stuff that we're doing is that we're helping dreamers, essentially. And there's kind of this common thread that we've heard, and I think you mentioned that Tony hits on this in the podcast. But this concept of, just trying, just giving it a try.– Yeah.– And why is that important, do you think?– Towards the end of the clip that we're about to play, Tony mentioned kind of his ultimate motivation towards, the big jump to moving to Nashville and pursuing all these opportunities. And his whole thing was like, you know, there's so many great opportunities in life. You don't have to be in the music industry, not everyone is meant to be in the music industry. The music industry is very competitive, not everyone who wants to be in it is going to be in it. But Tony's whole point was, that just really resonated with me was this idea of man, like if I don't just try and kind of give it everything that I have, a no is okay. Like if I meet the right people, and if I'm perfecting my craft and it's not good enough to be where it needs to be for the industry, then at least I tried, and I can live with that. But his big thing was like, man, if I don't try and give it all that I have, I won't be able to live with that. And that just resonated so much with me at the time, 'cause again, this was like, I think early 2016. So again, at the time, my involvement in the music industry was a little limited, I'd recently gotten out of college with my music business degree. I had a really great marketing job, but I wasn't that involved in the music industry, I was like running sound with my church and some things like that. But I knew that… In my being, I'm like, the music industry is where I ultimately want to be. And I was in a place where I kinda had a good job and all that sort of thing, but it was like, man, can I live with it if I don't do all that I can to get myself down to Nashville, to pursue these opportunities. And Tony just saying that, it's like, it was like he was speaking for me in that moment. Like yes, like that is ultimately where I'm at and I decided, there is no way that I will be able to live with it if I don't try, and give it all that I have, no matter what the outcome is.– And here you are.– Indeed.– Fruit of the podcast, that's awesome. Well here is a clip from Tony Wood interview on the Full Circle Music Show.– ASCAP was real helpful to me early as a songwriter, there was a conference that they offered like about five or six Monday nights in a row in October, where they brought in writers, producers, publishers, some great instruction. Something in that that was so significant, songwriter Dwight Liles said, the hardest meeting to get in Nashville with a publisher is not the first meeting, the hardest meeting to get is the second meeting. And it just killed me in that moment, 'cause I am such an introvert. And they would use the word networking and I hate the word, 'cause networking feels like, walk across this room and introduce yourself to this stranger, and tell them why they need to get to know you. And it's like, it's against everything within me, I'd rather just take a beating than do that. And I was like oh, no, if the hardest meeting to get is the second one, I'd better be ready when I get that, when I finally get the nerve up to go introduce myself, I gotta know that I'm ready. So that sends me into a month or so of panic about what do I do, what do I do. And I came up with this idea, Tom Long was the head of membership at ASCAP at that time, and he had put the conference on. The conference had happened three or four months earlier and I'd been stewing on that. And so here was the first professional initiation for me, I picked up the phone and I called Tom. And I said Tom, in the course that you moderated, somebody said the hardest meeting to get with a publisher is not the first, the hardest is the second. I need to be ready, I need somebody to tell me if I'm ready. And here comes the ask, Tom, will you be that man for me? And Tom says well, nobody's kinda ever asked me that, but okay, I tell you what, every couple of months, give me a call, bring me some of the lyrics that you're writing, and I'll take a look at them and tell you. I can't tell my story without such gratitude to Tom, Tom Long, for that. So I take the first meeting with Tom Long, walk in, the three current pieces of paper that I've typed up, put them on his desk, sit there, quietly feeling my organs separating while he's reading them all, just the tension, just dying right there. And Tom reads three and says, I've got some people you need to meet, get in the car. Drove me around to four publishers. I had done my homework, I knew who the publishers, I knew these people, I knew who their writers were, I knew the songs that they were having success with at that point. The first three dismissed me pretty quickly and go, eh, thanks but no thanks, and the fourth one was Michael Puryear who was with a small company, Lorenz Creative Services that was going at the time. They had just signed Steven Curtis, though before his first record, that was his first home, and they had recently signed Marcus Hummon who wrote God Bless the Broken Road. So it was kind of this small little boutique thing that was going, and Michael is more of a lyric guy, and he said, oh, why don't you start hanging around here some, and let me see if I can get some of our guys to write with you. And that was… The life changing moment for me, I'm so grateful to Michael for early belief in me.– [Seth] Sure. So, backing up, 'cause just the move to Nashville is such a huge leap of faith in the moment, I don't wanna gloss over that, for you and your wife. I'm sure that was just like a monumental thing. How does somebody know when they're ready to do that.– [Tony]Nobody knows, there is no knowing, there is nobody that's gonna say the time is right. It is that line between faith and foolishness. That's so close in there, you don't know. But I remembered, there was a point when I was finishing up school and still writing frantically, accumulating lots of sheets of paper. And they were in a box kinda under a bed. Early 20s, and I remember thinking, I can't imagine hitting 50 and not knowing, and not trying. I could live if I dared to show those to somebody and they said, ah, thanks but no, there's really not a place for you. But I couldn't live with myself if I didn't at least try. I remember sometimes feeling almost claustrophobic at that thought like, if I hit 50, and I've never at least tried, I almost couldn't breathe thinking about that. So that was some of the motivation that, you know if they had said, no thanks, go away, I could've lived with that, I could've gone and gotten, I could've worked at a church and been real happy with that, knowing that I tried. But not trying just was killer.– [X] Hey everyone, this is X O'Connor and you've been listening to the Full Circle Music Show, they why of the music biz, hope everyone enjoyed our episode 100, the special episode. It's impossible to believe that it's been 100 episodes already. And again, this is our last episode for a little bit, we're gonna be coming back at you with our brand new, re-imagined, rebranded podcast, the Made It in Music podcast, it's gonna be starting Monday, March 26th. It's so exciting, we're so pumped. So again, remember, March 26th, that's a Monday, that's gonna be the official beginning of the Made It in Music podcast. And we have some huge names already lined up for this, you guys are gonna be super excited about what we've got to come. It's gonna be more great content, for free, for you. We're looking forward to seeing you Monday, March 26th.The post Episode 100: The Best of The Full Circle Music Show appeared first on Full Circle Music. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Episode #1: Gone is the craziness of 2017, but with us still are all the memorable moments and phenomenon.  Adrian Crawford is our guest on this episode as we discuss the good, the bad, and the interesting from 2017. Have a question or constructive compliment for Seth? You can email: sethtrimmer@gmail.com Twitter: @SethTrimmer Instagram: @SethTrimmer Facebook: Seth Trimmer Seth's Teachings: gracecitychurch.org   Follow Adrian: Facebook: Adrian Crawford Instagram: @adriancrawford5Twitter: @adriancrawford Adrian's Website and New Rules Podcast  

We welcome Jason Ingram to Full Circle Music studios. He is a producer, songwriter, and artist with multiple SESAC songwriter of the year awards, Dove Awards, and Grammy Awards, with more #1 Radio Hits than most ever see. His credits include Brandon Heath, Hillsong, Chris Tomlin, Tenth Avenue North, Casting Crowns, and MercyMe.He talks about the idea that “your calendar will tell me if you're a songwriter”. It is the discipline versus inspiration. 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a:hover{color:#8f8f8f !important;} AUDIO 37min:19secPodcast – Interview with hosts Seth Mosley, Chris Murphy & guest, Jason IngramSeth: Hey what's up. this is Seth Mosley, host of the Full Circle Music Show, thanks for listening. Again, this week we've got an awesome guest, one of my long time heroes of the music business, Jason Ingram, Sir Jason Ingram. He's a producer, song writer, artist, worship leader and all of the above. He has multiple awards on his mantle for Sesac songwriter of the year, he's won Dove Award producer of the year, more number ones than you can imagine and really has had, in the last several years, what has been an incredible career in the music business. And today we get to sit down and hear the story before Jason Ingram as the Jason Ingram that we know now.That's half the reason why we do this show is to kind of shine a light on the blood, sweat and tears that goes into making a successful career in the music business and there's a lot of stuff that I learnt in this episode about Jason; some stories about how he got into it and believe it or not at one time he was touring as a merch manager for a band, him and his wife were selling blood plasma just to get back home for Christmas. I'm telling you there's some stuff that you don't know that goes into making a successful song writing and producing career. So stick around and before we dive into it we wanted to thank you for listening, thank you for subscribing, go over to iTunes, leave us a good rating and review. That helps us a ton as we're getting this podcast off the ground.And for our next segment, Full Circle music trivia, the answer to last week's question: What is the highest selling album of all time? Well the answer for that is Michael Jackson Thriller. So to one of you guys who e-mailed in to trivia@fullcirclemusic.org, you get a free copy of the book ‘Hitmen'. And this week's question is: Who is the top Grammy award winner of all time? Again, who is the top Grammy award winner of all time? Email your response in to trivia@fullcirclemusic.org and this week the winner's going to take home ‘All you need to know about the music business' by Donald Passman, 8th Edition. Up to date information on new music business models including music streaming services and cloud lockers, the latest developments in digital rights and updated numbers and statistics for a traditional industry. Again, email your responses in to  trivia@fullcirclemusic.org and thanks for playing along.Alright, let's just dive into the episode, we've got Jason Ingram in here, in the house. A good friend and without even probably knowing it, mentor of mine who I've looked up to since I've moved to Nashville and song writing and production. And just track record for days, the  guy has just had hit after hit after hit and his songs are being sang in churches all around the world.  So for you to take a few minutes to come and spend with us means a lot so thank you for doing this.Jason: Yeah, it's an honourSeth: So do you want to carry us in?Chris: Yeah man, one of the things that I wanted to know from you Jason, is when did the song writing bug hit you or how long have you been doing it? Was it one of those things just where you were doodling in a notepad when you were 6 years old or even earlier or…?Jason: I started taking piano lessons in middle school but I think I was a freshman in high school when I was introduced to just chord voicings so up until then I was just learning to read music and more classical sort of training and which I wasn't excelling at but I loved music and so I just stayed at it and then I think my freshman year in high school, someone just taught me how to play chords. And think about music as chords as opposed to just reading notes on a scale. And I instantly started writing songs once I had chords, I was a songwriter…not a very good one…but from then on, yeah, I mean I was writing songs.Chris: Did it start for you at going on what you were hearing on the radio and just putting chords to that? Or was it truly like “I don't care what's going on, on the radio, I've  got my own vision that I'm…[4.06]Jason: Yeah no, I was, I was writing my own thingsChris: That's greatJason: Love songs for interest of mine, things like thatChris: Yeah, wow that's great man. So were you that guy with the guitar who got the girl because you had the guitar?Jason: Yeah…my wife…and then once I learnt chords I started leading worship as well and so my wife, we were on a little missions trip to Mexico, we lived in California and I was a  graduating senior and she was going into her junior year in high school and we went down there and I led worship at this thing that we were doing. And I didn't know her but she saw me leading worship and she knew, she told a camp counsellor that I was going to be her husband. And so, yeah, I think the guitar strummings, it helps man.Seth: AbsolutelyJason: Helps make up for other things…Chris: The lack of confidence [5.06] actually talking face to face.Jason: Massive lack of confidence, man, growing up in the church, there's so many stories that sound similar to that, it's like going up to that youth pastor or whatever and pointing, like that's going to be my guy.Seth: Did you know at that time or did you find that out later?Jason: I found that out later, we started sort of dating a bit after that but yeah, I found that out later. And she's not that kind of person, she's actually…I wasn't one of the popular kids and she was so I wouldn't have even, like gone there.Chris: Yeah, she was out of your leagueJason: She was [5.38] but yeah, I found that out later and I've just been writing songs out of a ‘heart place' you know. Ever since I first started writing songs I think that's been one of the, hopefully one of the things that people notice when they hear songs that I'm part ofChris: Yeah, yeah. And has that always come naturally to you? To be able to express your heart on paper or in a recording?Jason: I guess it has, yeah I guess it has. I've found music as the gift of…which is hard to hold onto sometimes when you've been doing something for a while and it becomes your career but there was a lot of years where the only reason I had to write a song was just to get something out. There wasn't any career in itChris: AlrightJason: And so I did that long enough that I think that it's easy for me to sort of stay in that placeChris: Yeah, yeah, I think one of the hallmarks of the songs that I know of yours, I mean from a perspective of they've got a story or they've got an intention to it and it sounds like you were saying, in those early days before anybody was paying you to write a song; or asking you to go do something that it was because you had to get something out. And I feel like that there is a trend in, at least pop music these days, where there's not necessarily a story, it's  just the feeling, it's a vibe that's going on. Do you find that you would have a harder time if you were you know, if you needed to go write the next Justin Bieber song versus writing something that has more of a, a heart pouring so to speak?Jason: I will say it, like a melody or a track or a vibe can bring out a lot of emotions so since you've mentioned Bieber…[7.16]…yeah, his most recent album is like, to me it's been the thing I've listened to the most this year. And so I just love it, I think the song writing is amazing, I think the production is phenomenal and it's emotional to me so it feels like, I feel like I can touch it. There is a lot of pop music that doesn't have that same sense to it.Chris: Yeah, maybe Justin Bieber recently is not the best of those examples but it has that pop sheen to it, necessarily more than an emotion.Jason: Yeah, what I'm kind of hearing you ask is, is it those songs that are less about the lyric and about just a vibe or something like that. Lyric is huge for me, especially in the lane that God has me in and I feel like in some regard  a lot of pop music, the lyric is real secondary to whether or not it's a hit or not right? And I think we're accountable to more, I look at songs in this lane that God has called me to, I've often called them life rafts for people and so if I'm throwing someone a life raft, if that's what God lets me do with my song, I want it to hold them up. And so our words often become people's prayers, you know, and that's phenomenal. Martin Luther said when I can't pray, I sing and we're able to throw these life rafts to people, a lot of times that don't even know what to pray and write the prayer that they need to re-engage their heart with the Lord and so it's a huge, I think a weight, that we need to carry when we're considering ‘do we have the words right?'Seth: It's not  just that when you're in a session just like settling on something because at some point, you know, I mean, you've got deadlines and you've just got to get the song out. I mean you've got eight hours a day and you've got to get home to your family. But the intentionality in this genre of lyric is everything.Jason: Yeah, it totally isSeth: So, rewinding, we skipped forward a lot of years but from you leading worship on that mission trip, wherever you were in California to when you, you know, got your first pay check from doing music, what did that look like?Jason: It was a lot of years. I definitely took the long road so I heard Christine Cane talk once on the distance between anointing and appointing and it's different for all of us but I really felt like God anointed me very specifically to write songs for His church, as a teenager. The appointing was probably some fifteen years later and so I went to Bible College, I became a worship pastor at a church in California and had a band, got a little bitty record deal, toured…sold four albums…it was off to an amazing startChris: All to your relatives right?Jason: Right and then at some point my wife and I felt nudged to move here and so we did but I didn't have a job or anything in music and so my entry point into music, and I was working temp agency jobs, I mean it got pretty lean for us, there was a Christmas where we went to sell blood plasma to try to get home for Christmas.Seth: [10.43] from going to Nashville to California? WowJason: That year I just remember thinking, ‘This, this has got to turn around pretty soon', you know, ‘there's only so much blood available'Seth: It was literally blood, sweat and tearsJason: Yeah, right yeah.Chris: That's amazingJason: My entry point into what I'm doing now, oddly enough, was getting a job doing merchandise for Sonicflood and this was back when they were sort of at the top of their thing. And so I needed a job, I didn't think…that's not what I moved here to do…but I started selling their merchandise and I heard they were about to make their second record and I heard that they wanted the title of the record to be ‘Resonate' and they didn't have a song called ‘Resonate', usually you don't title your album until you've got an album you know? Isn't that weird, so I pounced, ‘merch guy' saw an opportunity and wrote a song called ‘Resonate' which was a shoe in because you have to have a song called ‘Resonate' if the album's called ‘Resonate' and they didn't have it, so they had to record it. They recorded it, of course it was the title track but that happened before I wrote the song [11.53] it became their first single off that album. So that was the first time someone else recorded something that I wrote.Seth: You were doing merch for them on a tour and heard some conversation that [12.09]Jason: I heard a conversation, went to a hotel room, wrote a song, came back and said “Here's a song called ‘Resonate'”Chris: What was that like when you presented it? Did you present it as though you had not heard that before but just randomly came up with a song that was…Jason: No, I wasn't, I didn't play it off like I hadn't heard that they were calling the album ‘Resonate', so that was my entry point and then someone said “So that song made a little bit of money”, that was the first time that ever happened to me you know, ten years into writing songs, selling merchandise and blood. Some friends were saying “You should meet with publishers in town”, I'd never heard of a music publisher. I didn't know there was a career to be had in song writing, I had no idea. I was pretty naive to how the music industry worked and so I met with all the publishers in town, got a quick “No” from everybody. I just didn't have, I had this one song you know, and then…Seth: And they were all like, “And what else?”Jason: Right, right. And so the fourth publisher I met with, which was the last option, saw potential in the writing but really valued sort of, my heart for what I wanted to do with my writing so I entered my first publishing deal and that was, I guess, twelve years ago now.Chris: Who was that with?Jason: Cindy Wilt signed me to Word, so I wrote for Word for three years, she's my champion, she's with the Lord now…Chris: Just this past year…Jason: Yes, she signed me, I probably wrote a hundred songs my first year, as a writer at Word, with co-writes, almost every day. I didn't get one cut.Chris: Wow! Out of a hundred?Jason: A hundred yeah, yeah my batting average was pretty low, I wrote a hundred songs, no cuts but I really felt at the time that it was the most amazing year and I thought ‘Well, I'm not going to get my option picked up because I've made no money for the company but I was just really thankful to the Lord to have sort of lived a dream for a year. And so I was really ready to pack up and go back to something else and she picked up my option, wrote another hundred songs for another year, got my first cut, found out it was a hidden track…Seth: So did you even get paid for this?Jason: Well my…Chris: He got paid with hidden moneyJason: Yes, hidden money, Cindy called and assured me that you get paid the same, just no one will hear it. I was like “Ah, awesome”. So again, I thought…Seth: So one out of two hundredJason: One out of two hundredSeth: That's amazing though just for her vision in you, you know. If I signed a writer, if I was a publisher…Jason: You would not, no, you do not stick around, I would have never stuck with me so yeah, she really is a champion for meChris: Yeah, that's amazingJason: And so she picked up my option again…Seth: After the hidden trackJason: Really, really caught a wave, “So you're telling me there's a chance…”. So year three is when I finally kind of did catch my wave and I started having quite a few things work and the real sort of, another real pivotal album for me was Joy Williams did an album called Genesis and we wrote most of the songs on that album together…Seth: You and Joy…Jason: Yes, and it, it didn't necessarily go on to be the biggest album but everyone loved it. So it was like all of our peers loved it and so all of a sudden, doors started opening up and then I met a guy named Bebo Norman and we started writing songs for his album. And I'd never produced anything and I was just doing demos and stuff with the songs we wrote and then I ended up producing that record for him called Between the Dreaming and the Coming TrueSeth: Was that just kind of like, hey, you had been doing these demos and they loved what you were doing, just keep…Jason: Yeah, well what actually happened is we had written, I think, almost all the songs for his album, just the two of us and he went to the producer that they had hired to produce the first couple of songs and they just weren't thrilled with where they landed and so I think Bebo went and just said “Hey, do you mind if me and Jason sort of try to hit a couple?” I think he asked if we could hit a couple and record at the mall. So, then I was a producer you know and that's when I really did sort of catch a wave in that season. And another thing, so I started having lots of songs getting recorded, I started producing a lot. I really think this happened where I might have written a hundred songs and had no cuts, I think I've had a couple years where I've had a hundred songs cut.Chris: Wow, wowJason: And which is nuts so things just got fast and exciting and I found was a part of a couple guys who stumbled into this band called 10th Avenue North and so we signed them to a little development deal and shot them a record deal and that thing's turned into something really significant. Brandon Heath and I wrote ‘Give me your eyes' which turned into something significant and then it just seemed, it seemed to be like…where Seth is right nowSeth: I don't know if I'm there yetJason: Just lots of songs doing really, really, really well and to some degree I'm still on that wave but I have had a bit of a shift in, for me personally, and like God uses music in so many different ways but the song that I was most desiring in my life was songs for the Church. Songs that the Church could bring in worship to the Lord and I had a picture in my mind since high school that one day I would walk in to the back of a room and hear God's people singing something that He let me be a part of writing. So this is relatively recent, about six and a half years ago, six years ago I had…the mailbox money was there…and the accolades and stuff with my peers was there but I had this sort of unfulfilled dream and passion of mine and I was asking the Lord, before I moved into another [18.51] deal, if I was meant to keep doing this because I truly, and I prayed this, and I truly meant it, that I would trade all of the other things and what it brought and the success that it brought for that experience of walking in the back of a church and hearing God's people singing something that He'd let me be a part of writing.So I started bringing this prayer to the Lord about six and a half years ago, took some space from writing and it just seemed like that, at that time God shifted some things from me and really moved me into a place where that was going to become a much more significant part of my life. I remember the day I heard a church sing, I was in the back of a room and I heard a church sing something I wrote for the first time and it was six years ago. It was something I'd written with a guy named Reuben Morgan, because of the success that I'd had, he had come through town and he'd asked if he could get with Christian music's sort of top writer/producers and I was one of three he spent a day with and he didn't really want to write any songs. It was more to just sort of like talk philosophy, hang out, kind of get some exposure to some other ways of maybe approaching songs and take that back because they write their songs internally. So we spent a day and didn't write but we became friends instantly, it was like the brother that was out there that I hadn't met yet. So he came back through a couple of weeks later and on a Saturday morning we just decided to give a go at writing a little something and we wrote Forever Reign but he wasn't thinking that he would take it home and use it at church. So it was just a song that was just on a voice memo on two phones and I didn't know if that's all it would ever be and you really don't know.I think songwriters out there kind of wonder if you know when you've got one of those and you really don't know. I think you should feel like you've got one of those with every song you ever write, so this song was sitting there and I'm still praying this prayer, “Lord, let me walk in the back of a church and hear your people singing something You let me write” and I get this email and it says “Hey, decided to give this a run at church, it's unbelievable what's happening, this is just a board mix so excuse it being rough but I just wanted you to hear it”. And so I'm by myself in my room at home and I push play and I'm listening to Hillsong church sing ‘Forever Reign' like their lives depend upon it and I realized at that moment I was in the back of a church, like, but in God's extravagant and beautiful way, I was by myself with Him but I was listening into the back of not just any church but the most influential church on worship in the world. That really marked a transition for me and I so love radio, it's so fun for me and hooks and pop melodies but if I had to give my life as a writer to one thing, it would certainly be songs that God's people are singing in the church and so I do as much of that as possible these days and really love itChris: What an amazing storySeth: It's pretty crazyChris: Yeah, it is, and the fact that you were able to have kind of a private moment there but still have that experience that you kind of envisioned years and years beforeJason: Yeah, God's got this stuff you know, He's got usChris: Well speaking of that and the faith that it took to get to that point, what kind of faith did it take for you or ‘stick-to-it-iveness' that first year where you had the deal and you wrote a hundred songs and not one cut and then the second year where you finally got one but not many people would hear it unless they knew how to work a CD player the right way? What did it take for you to keep going and for Cindy to continue to have faith in you, just what was that experience like for you?Jason: Well I think what keeps us going is that we love it, it's hard for me to come over here and talk with Seth and not be like ‘So let's write something' because I love it, I love when we write, I love writing songs and so it's what keeps you going is that you love it. Even if there's not the return of people hearing it, that's a big bonus but that kept me going at it. And also too, I'm a bit, I'm driven, I don't think anyone ends up in this world that's achieving things like you're going to find that drive is a big part of a common factor.Seth: Well to push through two years of not having anything, it has to beJason: Right, it is and belief, people believing in you. The other thing, I do think it's important for songwriters in this era, we're such an instant gratification culture and an entitled culture that we don't appreciate the hours. There's this whole ten thousand hours thing that it takes to master anything that we're all familiar with but I really find that's true. I like to tell songwriters, I've got a good friend named Jimmy Abegg who was in The Ragamuffins with Rich Mullins and he's still a brilliant guitar player but his painting is probably his first love, so he's this brilliant painter; we have his paintings hanging all around our house. My wife dabbles in painting sometimes and so she had taken some pictures of the ocean out where we're from in Santa Cruz and had come home and was painting these ocean scenes, she had six canvasses hanging on the wall and she thought ‘Well I'm going to have Jimmy come out and give me some critique'. And I'm like ‘Oh, that'll be amazing, get critiqued by Jimmy Abegg' so he comes out and he looks at her six paintings and he tells her so many…like he just finds encouraging things to say about every inch of all six canvasses…but then he says, “Okay, so  you've got six, so go paint ninety four more and then paint your first painting”Chris: Oh gosh…Jason: But that's like, what good advice, I mean we always just want to fast track to…and some writers might write…their first song might be a world changing song, there's a difference between people who ‘happen' into a good song and people that constantly write great songs. And that comes from really honing your craft and honing your craft is…there's no shortcut to hours.Chris: I was thinking as you were saying that, the hundred songs in the first year and the hundred songs in the second year, even if they didn't get put anywhere that either could equate to significance on the charts or every bottom dollar, whatever that is, like what a classroom that is, to be in front of someone else, doing a co-write, [25.56] writing. All those songs are building towards…just like you were saying Jimmy was saying that all of those hundred paintings build towards being able to put your first one out there that is really a statementSeth: My competitiveness would probably go back and take some of those if I were in your position and play them for somebody and just watch how many of them would get cut. Now because you're Jason Ingram…Jason: You're totally right, and that does happen, that does happen. I mean you don't…it's hard to get a fair listen…people always listen to things through the filter of what their expectation is and so if their expectation is that something is going to be great, they're more likely to hear it that waySeth: Yeah, it's pre-informed, I'm sureChris: That's definitely true. So the kid that's getting out of Belmont and wanting to become the next Jason Ingram…what's your biggest word of advice to him or her?Jason: Write songs that mean something to you and put your head down and work hard and write a lot. The other thing I…when I say write something that means something to you…is I do find that a lot of people sort of come out of these environments and they've learned some sort of craft butSeth: Like meaning [27.17] haven't gone and gotten a degreeJason: Yeah, like got a degree or they've kind of read some books so they want to do something so they study the craft and you can assemble a song because the rhyme is there or the hook is there but I just think the difference, even in the pop world, and certainly in Country and Christian, is the songs that are written because they matter to you is…those are always the ones that do something. And another thing I tell people is if you want to be a songwriter, make sure your calendar tells me you're a songwriter because if your calendar doesn't tell me you're a songwriter you're not a songwriter.We sort of have this sort of idea that ‘Well, I'm just going to catch a song, I'm waiting for inspiration or…', the thing that we learn is,  we calendar our song writing and then good things happen. You tend to want to think that…like even ‘Forever Reign' as an example…or anything like that, that I was woken up in the middle of the night and the Lord said “I've got something for you”, so I got up, I sang something into my phone and the next morning I'm playing it back, and I'm like ‘Oh my goodness, this is amazing'. But, really it was just a date and a time that was scheduled on a calendar and had that not happened, that song would not exist and so I always tell people your calendar will tell me what you are in life and if you want to be a songwriter let's look at your calendar and let's see if you are. That's a big one is because it takes a lot of discipline to keep writing songsSeth: Now that's a good word, it's kind of less of waiting for inspiration to strike and just showing up every day and then the inspiration comes because of who you're around and…Chris: Definitely, definitelyJason: Yeah, and another thing is, on that, because of who you're around, co-write. We both know, we all know co-writing is the key to my success, that wasn't something I was doing…none of the songs that people know me by would even exist…that's a very big dealSeth: Do you sit down nowadays, ever, and just do anything by yourself anymore or is it just kind of like…that's…you don't do it that way anymore?Jason: I really don't. Every now and then, I think last year I wrote a song by myself, I just…you know was in a moment where I felt like I needed to express something…but that's so rare. I have an unfair advantage in that I have access to a lot of talented friends and so I want to know what my idea shapes into with someone else's mind involved in it as wellChris: Was that a process for you? In the early days when you say you sat in your room by yourself writing that song, to being mostly known as a person whose an amazing collaborator and co-writer, that process of transitioning into mostly co-writesJason: One of the things I told my first publisher when I signed my first publishing deal is that I write my best songs by myself and I really believed that and she said “Okay, well we'll see how that shapes up for you”. And it certainly was not true, what I said. I do not write my best songs by myself.Chris: How long did that take for you to fully believe that?Jason: About two years, of writing some by myself and writing a ton with other people, it makes sense though, I mean the community in strength. Like it just…it makes sense that when you do something as a team you're going to get better results than individualsSeth: That word is recurring very many times in this podcastChris: Isn't it though? It's amazingSeth: The importance of team and along with your team, when you were getting into it would you consider that publisher like your mentor, do you feel like you had a mentor, sort of shepherding you in your career?Jason: She would have been my mentor in that season of life for sure, she would listen to everything I wrote and told me what was working and what wasn't, yeah that was just like school for meChris: Was it tough to hear?Jason: No, because the heart was someone who was…when no one else wanted to give me any advance and tell me to write songs…this was the person that said “You can do it” so no, it definitely wasn't. I mean, it's always tough to hear in the regard that I think we put our hearts, we put ourselves into these things that we do and so it's always hard to hear things that are critical but it's so valuableSeth: At this point in your career you've achieved some pretty big success by any world standard. Is there anything that you're still afraid of when you come into work every day?Jason: Yes and it's that I'm afraid that I'm missing what God wants out of me and so I keep that in front of me, like the thing I'm really wanting to be mindful of in 2016 is if I didn't write another song [32.38] my family's going to be okay and I've accomplished something and I could come and write songs purely out of craft and gifting as can you and get good results but I…what I'm afraid of is, I'm not seeking what God wants…What does He want from me? What does He…what are the prayers that people need? What are the life rafts that we need to throw to people? What are the…not just writing songs [33.13] I just don't want to…in this space that I'm in…the music industry works unfortunately, I think, very much like any other industry, there's not a lot of conversation of mission, there's not a lot of conversation of, truly, of life impact, which is kind of sad you know. You want to hope that that's there but we're inundated by ‘Is it a hit?', I hate that word, I love when things become a hit but I…Seth: If that's what you're shooting forJason: The fear in me is just that we would just write really catchy jingles that people enjoy but that we're not really bringing the people what God, what His heart for us to bring them is. So that's front and centre for meSeth: Now that's goodChris: You're kind of building on that, and borrowing from a term you said earlier that you feel you're still kind of riding that initial wave that you caught. Can you foresee what you either want your next wave to look like or what you feel like you're transitioning into now? If it's the same thing, that's fine but what is the next two, three, five years look like for Jason Ingram?Jason: I've reached a place of freedom in my life where there's been a lot of hustle and  a lot of drive for a lot of years and I really want to sit in a place of rest and freedom and gratitude and so when you're too tired or there's something that happens when you're not taking care of yourself or your soul and your ‘get to's' become ‘got to's'. There is some years where I get to write a song, I get to be with this artist today, I get to come and talk about this. They become ‘got to's', I've got to do this, I've got to write today, I've got to be with that artist tomorrow. And there's no joy in that, there's no rest in that and for me, I'm just trying to move just into a space where everything is a ‘get to' again and however long God wants to use me in this capacity, like I'm pumped but holding it loosely.But I am excited, I'm ready to write the best songs I've ever written and to dig deep and jump around a room [35.36] listening to you know, I'm super fired up so I don't know, I don't have another thing, you know, just this thing and I do think there's something to that. I don't often say to people like you can go so many paths when something starts working, when one thing's working it's easy to start thinking about all these other things that you're not doing. And I've just tried to live by this principle that I heard someone say which is so where you have favour and so where I have favour, that's where I'm going to continue to sow and not be thinking about ‘Well because this is working [36.18] what I can get in that door, that I could do that thing'Chris: It's been a pleasure to  hear from you. I know that so many of your words have turned into songs that have turned into these personal words for other people. You know they've taken those as their own, as their prayer like you're saying. So it's been a pleasure for me to be able to sit here and just hear from you because so much of what I've heard from you have been the songs that you've created and so to hear personally from you about some of that with the struggles or the high points or the…what you're thinking of as some of those songs come to light has been a pleasure man, thank youSeth: Yeah, super funJason: Thanks so much for the time manSeth: You've been listening to the Full Circle Music Show, leave us a nice rating and review on iTunes. Editing help this week thanks to Kayley Ingram and [37.05] Jerricho Scroggins, produced by the Full Circle Music Company. Check us out at fullcirclemusic.org/podcastwww.fullcirclemusic.orgThe post FCM012 – Writing 100 Songs A Year with Jason Ingram appeared first on Full Circle Music. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

In this episode we sit down with Centricity Music General Manager, Steve Ford. 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a:hover{color:#8f8f8f !important;} www.fullcirclemusic.orgFCM007_-_Relationships_with_Steve_FordDuration: 00:50:21You're listening to The Full Circle Music Show. The why of the music biz.Chris: Welcome back to the Full Circle Music Show, it’s Chris Murphy and I'm sitting right beside Seth Mosley. How are you buddy?Seth: I'm good man. It's a busy week, lots of good stuff going on over here at the studio. And I’m excited to take just a few minutes out of our schedule to talk to one of our favorite people in the industry, Mister Steve Ford.Steve has been a guy that I've known for a long time, was one of the people that I met moving to Nashville in the music business. And we've talked to a lot of people on the creative side so far but we haven't yet talked to anybody on the label side. So, you think of the guy that sits in a dark room with a suit in a corner office, that's this guy! Except for not, he actually sits in a what is a pretty awesome office, he's the general manager of a label company called Centricity Music; has been pretty massively successful in the past couple of years and really since they opened. But, he's a really great leader and speaks to what they look for in a good producer, in a good artist, in a good team member at their label.So, if you're wanting to get involved in the music industry, this is a great episode to listened to. I learned a ton and I think you will too.Chris: You know, being a podcast junky, it's nice to meet a fellow podcast enthusiast as well. We had some great conversations in the episode but also talked a lot about our favorite podcasts on and off the mic. He's just a great guy, great to get to know him and I really appreciate Seth you setting this up. Another great interview and I can't wait to listen to it.Seth: And you can check out his company at centricitymusic.com. They have a lot of great artists that I think you'll dig.Audio clip commencesHey podcast listeners, something is coming February 1st 2016. Have you ever thought about a career in song writing or music production? We have created a couple courses with you guys in mind. We've been getting a lot of feedback on people wanting to know more about how to become a song worker; how to become a professional music producer or engineer. These courses were designed to answer some of those questions. Go to fullcirclemusic.org and sign up there for more information.Audio clip endsChris: You were saying earlier before we started rolling that you were a podcast guy.Steve: Oh yeah, big podcast guy.Chris: And, you've heard this podcast before?Steve: Yeah. I've listened to the first three.Chris: Okay. So, can I ask you to go out on a limb and give us a grade so far?Steve: You know what? I'd give them a solid B+. I want them longer. That's my thing; I want to go into the background. I want to hear when you did Brown Banishers which is funny because I've worked a lot with Brown but you didn't get past Amy Grant.Seth: Sure.Steve: I mean, this is the guy who worked with from everybody from Third Day to Mercy Me to Why Heart, he's done everybody like come one there are stories there. I tell people I'm on the corporate side because of Brown Banisher because of how he worked. I was an engineer in LA for ten years and he would come out and mix records with us, it was at a little place called Mama Joes and I would see him on the phone going, “Happy birthday sweetie.” Later knowing that it was Ellie; missed her first walk and all of these other things. And when my daughter was born, I was like, I can't do this. I needed a life and so I started praying and Peter York calls. So it’s because of him so it's fun to hear some his stories. I did a lot of records win Jack Joseph Puig and–Seth: And you were engineering at the time?Steve: Yeah. I was an engineer at LA.Seth: And at the time that was really engineering?Steve: Oh my gosh.Seth: You were cutting tape and…Steve: Yeah! I've cut a lot of two inch tape, quarter inch tape, half inch–Seth: Stuff that I hope to never do.Steve: You don't have to, Jericho does it for you.[Laughter] Seth: I don't know if Jericho has ever cut tape? In school he did.Steve: Now, I feel really old.Chris: Is that kind of like when you're in a biology class and not in any other time of your life will you need to dissect a frog but you just have to do it for the experience of it. Is that what it's become cutting tape?Steve: I don't know if you have to do it even that. It's sort of like this legend of starting a fire with flint, you know? It's sort of like, “Yeah. I used to cut tape.”[Laughter] Seth: I mean there's probably a resurgence. I would imagine knowing the process of what coffee has become and how artists.Steve: Yeah.Seth: I think there's a big thing in maybe it's the millennial generation or whatever it is but I think people are drawn back to slower, older more hands on processes it seems like than just pushing the button or going through the drive through–Steve: And somethings, don't you think, in some things its like just give me the button. Give me the filter on Instagram.Seth: That is true! That's true but then you've got the whole wave of people roasting their own coffee beans now and then they're grinding the with a hand grinder, and then they're putting in a… And, I'm saying this because we have like three artists that we work with; that come in and they bring their whole coffee apparatus.Steve: And they measure how much coffee goes in, weigh it?Chris: Yeah.Steve: My son has one of those has a scale that weighs, how much coffee goes in. Oh yeah just …Chris: Yeah, I thought you were going to say some of the artists that you work with, they actually bring their own barista in the studio because–Steve: I'm sure that will happen.Seth: That’s kind of a prerequisite to be in a band. There has to be at least one barista.Steve: True.Seth: In the band.Steve: There has to be one business guy in every band and one guy who can make great coffee.Seth: And then the guy who can actually play the instruments.Steve: Yeah. Then the artist.[Laughter]Chris: And then the fourth guy on base who just knows how to shape everybody's beards. He's more of a grooming guy.Seth: And sometime there's a drummer.[Laughter] Steve: You don't need a drummer; there are machines for that now.[Laughter] Seth: Yeah. I mean, just take us through a little bit of your journey, you started in L.A.?Steve: I was born and raised in L.A.; read an article when I was 14 years old about this guy named Sir George Martin. And I was like, “What? You can do that for a living?”Seth: Who is George Martin?Steve: He produced this little band called the Beatles, probably never heard of…most 20 year olds haven't heard of them so…Chris: And then isn't true that he went on from there to write The Game of Thrones?Steve: Did he? I'm not a Game of Throne person–Chris: Okay that's R.R. Martin, sorry.Steve: Wrong one. But I mean, you read about these guys and you sort of open a door into a new world that you didn't know existed. And so, I was 18 years old, junior out of high school walked into the recording studios and started from there.Seth: So, you didn't wait to have some sort of a college thing to get internships?Steve: My mom was like Reeds parents which was like, “That’s a nice hobby but let's make sure you have a backup plan, a plan B.” And so, I still went to school, I still went to college did all of that. Don't ask me my grade point average because I was going home at 4 o'clock in the morning, waking up at 8 to crawl into my first class, it was terrible. But yeah, my first job in the recording studio, I was making $500 a month from 6 o'clock to 3 o'clock in the morning.Seth: Living in L.A?Steve: Living in L.A.Seth: And that probably paid for a tenth of the rent?Steve: Maybe.Chris: Or, just the gas to get around?Steve: But I loved every second of it. And then from there you sort of work your way up. So, I did that… Like I said earlier my daughter was born and I was like an engineer’s life is a hard life in LA especially. Those were the days when you'd pay $1,500 a day block booking a studio; you booked a studio and you're paying $1,500 if your there six hours or eight there 24 hours. And a lot of them stayed 24 hours, and you just have next, next, next, next.Chris: And you've got to be the first guy there.Steve: First guy there, last guy out, yeah. You're sitting there winding tables at 6 o'clock in the morning going, “I just want to go home.”Chris: When the bug caught you, from that point until the time that you walked into that first studio and got a job, what skills were you harnessing?Steve: None.Chris: Just reading liner notes?Steve: Yeah. Lying in the floor, reading and going, there's one in North Hall and I'd write it down on a piece of paper because I grew up in the San Fernando Valley and start looking for them. Hey man that where Bill [inaudible 8:50] studio is or whatever the studio was and start. There wasn't really a whole lot you can do to prepare for it. It's no like in high school you go, “I wonder what class…”  I was in all the choirs and all the music stuff and that didn't prepare you for it. Probably the greatest skills for a studio engineer especially a starting one is being attentive, being hungry, being prepared and that depends on who you're working with.When you working together with somebody so well, I'm sure you and your team, they know what you want in advance and plugin something in before you even have to ask, that’s just working together. I've told a lot of wannabe engineers who want to go to some of these very expensive schools, don’t do it. Take that money, live on it for two years and go give yourself away for free for two years. You learn more two years in a studio than you will however long you go to one of the expensive ones.Chris: Yeah.Steve: It's just doing it. Just aligning the tape machine which is once again, it's like starting fire with flint again, knowing the lines taped but you learn by doing that.Chris: Absolutely.Steve: You learn by making a lot of mistakes. I recorded a lot of bad drum sounds.[Laughter] It just happened and then you go, “Oh if I do this, its better.” And 10,000 hours man, it takes 10,000 hours.Chris: Again, I think that it's not that schooling is necessarily a bad thing but the way that you learn in life versus the way that you learn in a classroom is different because for the most part, a classroom will deduct points for the stakes and if you’re in the–Steve: That's true. Good point.Chris: Yeah. I heard that -actually going back to our love of podcasts here- I heard Tim Farris on his podcast talking about the fact that he was going to go to, was considering something like Princeton or Harvard or something to go get his MBA. And he thought instead of doing that -or maybe this was advice given to him and he took it- instead of taking that couple hundred thousand dollars worth of whatever I needed to go get my MBA. I'm going to invest that in myself, very similar to what you're saying. And I'm going to use that to live on so that way I can go and I can intern for that company that I would never be able to if the money mattered that much. Because once you get out of school its like, “Oo I've got to go do something with this.” But if you've got the money set aside to go get the MBA anyway, it goes a long way to really feeling free to not have to pay that rent or pay that car payment that you could really dive in.Steve: And most people never use their college education for what they use. I had a meteorologist specialist. She had a degree in meteorology for TV and she was my marketing assistant. And you go, “I want to see what you spent four years doing versus what's your grade point average or what's you major.” I don't care about that stuff.Seth: So to fast forward to today, you are general manager of a very successful record label. When you got to hire somebody to your team, do you even say, “Hey, send in your resume. Where did you go to college?” Or does that not even cross your mind?Steve: I do want to see that. Four years in college gives me the impression that they follow through, they finish. You’ve said it before, finishing is such a hard art in today's world. To have somebody who finished is very valuable. Do I care about your grade point average? No. Do I even care about your major? No. Because if you have the right work ethic and the right heart, I can train you to do other things but I want to see how hard you're willing to work.Seth: So, a college degree still carries some weight but maybe it doesn't carry the weight that people think it does in terms of having the training because you kind of have to relearn it all when you get out into the real world.Steve: Exactly. Most college students that I see haven't learned anything that’s a really good use at a record label. My last five hires at Centricity have all come from internships. Now, I've had a lot of bad interns. I've wanted to fire a couple of interns, that's pretty bad when you want to fire somebody who works for free.Seth: What defines a good intern and what defines a bad intern?Steve: A bad intern sits on Facebook until you give them something to do and then they do exactly just to the letter of the law of what you asked them to do, hand it in to you and then get back on Facebook. A great intern does what you do and says, “Hey and I thought about this. And what about this more?” You give them to go to D and they go to G; then you give them to G and they go to S. I have a girl in my office, I asked her to do one thing and she says “Oh by the way while I was thinking about it I did these other three things that will help you out.” That type of proactivity and thinking ahead is so incredibly valuable. Like having somebody patching in your compressor before you ask for it. They know where you're going so fast that they're working ahead of you. And for all of those out there, that's old school once again patch bays.[Laughter]Seth: We have a small patch bay, we have two patch bays actually so we're probably on the old school end of things.Chris: It looks very cool though. It's looks kind of old science fiction movie.Steve: Spaghetti.[Laughter] Seth: It's like a telephone operator kind of thing. I heard a thing on…man, we keep talking about podcast, we're all just podcasts nerds, dude. I think that’s what we do for a living is listen to podcasts. And I heard one last night, they did a study of millennials; if you had a dream job, pick out of these choices what would be your dream job. Number one was the president; number two was a senator; number three was a successful athlete; number four foreign diplomat; five was a CEO of Apple; and then the last choice was the personal assistant to a famous actor or athlete. And 45% I think picked that one, hands down.Steve: They have no idea what that job looks like.Seth: They don't but it also speaks to they don't want to take the responsibility. Like, when you're that person, when you're the boss, they want to have a boss and maybe you can speak to a little bit to that but I feel like when you were talking about the internships, the ones who go above and beyond are the ones who are willing to take some responsibility and say, “Here's an idea” and just put it out there. How many interns would you have to get, to get that one good one?Steve: Probably 10 to 15.Seth: 10 to 15 to 1?Steve: Yeah, to 1. I think that’s what it is.Chris: Wow.Steve: Yeah, that's what it is. And I heard you, I think we had the conversation, there's such a different work ethic in today's young adults. And part of it is my fault, I'm a parent of a young adult they've been given everything in their whole life, they haven't had to work for anything. You want that iPhone! Here's that iPhone. You want that? Here's that. The art and the craft of working, the labor of getting something is a lost art, I think.Seth: So, would you go back and do those things differently?Steve: For my kids? My kids had to work.[Laughter]Seth: So, you weren't saying from my experience, you weren't–Steve: I’m saying that personally and much more of…[Laughter]What we made our kids do is like when they wanted that $100 American girl doll is you buy half, we’ll buy half. And all of a sudden they're digging out rocks in the backyard at $1 a bucket out of the garden. Because you want to give your kids what the value of work is and that's that doll at the end.In our world, I sat with an intern once and he was irritating everybody in the office. He's that guy who only asks questions because he wanted to tell you how much he knew. An intern needs to be quite and listen because there's a lot of information that flows around… And then they find the person that they can go to and go, what did that mean when he said this? So, what did that mean or… Come to me! I've told everyone in my internship, feel free to come to me and say, what does it mean when you said that? Versus this guy would come to you and tell you everything he knew. So, I was sitting him down one day and going,  “Man, you're irritating everybody. The whole office wants to prove you wrong.”Seth: You literally said that?Steve: I said that to him and later on, “I know I do that. I'm just trying to figure out where I fit and trying to find a job make $100, $120,000 a year and start in the music industry.” And I said, “You're in the wrong industry, man.”Seth: Go into finance!Steve: Go into finance, or go be an architect somewhere I guess or something. It was just about wanting to make as much money as his dad did, now! This generation wants to start where their parents have gotten to right now. I've seen it with artists, I've seen it with interns–Chris: They don't want a drop in their lifestyle that they've become accustomed to.Seth: A luxury once had, becomes a necessity.Steve and Chris: Ooohh.Steve: Very nice.Seth: And I'm very guilty of that. You fly first class once and you feel like a swine by sitting in coach.[Laughter] Steve: I've flown private jets twice in my whole life, in my whole career both times sort of accidentally. And man, once you do a private jet and you don't have to go through security and you’re just like, “Oh, I want that.” I say this all the time about artists. The worst thing you can do for an artist is start them touring in a bus because that's the expectation and then you know what happens? Is they got on the bus and they’re, “This isn't a very nice bus.” There are people in vans like when you were out in a van, to be on a bus, to be able to sleep horizontally would be the greatest thing ever and just because you started at this place and then you get into private jets. Everybody needs to start their first tour in a Silverado truck and then the next one to a bigger–Seth: Graduate to a suburban!Steve: A suburban would be great, then a 15 passenger old church van that you bought for $5,000 that the left side of the speakers don't work. And then, you work your way into a [inaudible 19:58] van and then into a bus. Then you're grateful for everything that's better along the way.Seth: It's more about the process than anything.Steve: Yeah.Seth: And getting there.Steve: A wise manager once said, his job is to make his artists life better every year, just a little bit better. I'm like, that's a good goal. That's a good goal to have.Seth: It is. So, your transition, we shipped about 20 years–Steve: We skipped through it very fast.[Laughter] Your transition from doing that 6pm to 3 in the morning thing in LA, you had your baby…Steve: Yep. My wife and I were praying at that point going, “God, please give us some sane clients or open another door.” And I just worked probably two months before with Peter York–Seth: And for those out there listening, was this at a record label you got your first…Steve: I was working with Peter in the studio and he called me up and said, “Hey, are you interested in A&R?” And I started in A&R in Sparrow…what's that 87, 88? Right around there and we were still in Chatsworth, California, spent time out there with him. So, I’ve been at Sparrow, moved from Sparrow to Star Songs and then back to Sparrow when they came up. Started in A&R worked my way into the marketing side, artist development side… So, yes back to Sparrow went to  Mer and worked my way up to Vice President at marketing at Mer, was general manager at [inaudible 21:34], general manager at SRI and now general manager at Centricity.Chris: Wow.Steve: It's been a long journey. If you’d ask me to 25 or 30 years ago, were you going to be general manager at Record Label? I would have laughed in your face.[Laughter]Chris: Because you didn't think it was attainable or because you didn't want have this job?Steve: That was not the path I was on. I thought, I was going to be producing records and engineering records.  Jack Pueg is still mixing great great records out there and I thought I was going to follow that path. God had something very different in mind which makes me laugh going I was talking to [inaudible 22:09] this morning and I can't believe I’ve been doing this, this long. When you're now an industry veteran it means that you've been around a long time.Seth: But I don't think looking back and I don’t want to put words in your mouth but you don't strike me as one of those people that's looking back and feeling like you’re working in the corporate side of the industry because you never made it on the creative side.Steve: No, no.Seth: You don't strike me as that at all.Steve: I made that decision for my family. What's funny is I've learned more about engineering and more about mixing and more about mastering being on the corporate side of what we're trying accomplish and why trying to do what we're doing. I learned so much about that. And for the first year or so, I was mad at God going, “Why did I just spend 9, 10 years in studios, in dark rooms working long hours if this is where you wanted me?” But realize, every day of my life in the last 27 years in the corporate side I've used information I learned in the studio. Sometimes we can't ask God why until you're 20 years down and you go, “oh I get it.”It's the path he puts us on, he brings people in and out of your life. I remember a girl over at Sparrow she was an accountant, that was her thing she loved accounting and God put me with her to learn that whole budgeting, it was only like for four months and then we were separated again but once again she changed my perspective and my life for the next 20 years. So, you don't know if these people that are coming in and out of your life are for a short period of how they're going to impact you.But yeah, I've sort of worked my way, I was one of the strange guys everybody wants to be in A&R. I started in A&R and left to got to marketing and then got back into it as I moved back up into the but everybody wants to be an A&R guy, hang out in the studios and have dinner with the artists which is not what an A&R guy does.Chris: Well it's the perception out there–Steve: Yeah, exactly, that's what they think.Chris: Just like you saying the artist is going to be in private jets.Seth: And for honestly if somebody's out there, can you break down what exactly what it is A&R. What is that? What is that job?Steve: A&R, we [inaudible 24:27] airports and restaurants which is [inaudible 24:28].[Laughter]It’s artist and repertoire. It’s basically looking for artist, finding people that have a seedling of something. Sometimes you don’t know what it is. We’ve all got our standards of what we feel like will lead to success. But finding that, nurturing it, grooming it, it’s sort of the mustard seed put into the ground, pat around and hopefully something really great grows out of it. Sometimes the plants don’t live, sometimes they give up. But it basically the music made by the A&R guy, we have one of the best in the industry in Centricity. When he’s done, when the music is done, he hands the baton over to me, and I go everywhere from there. But it’s his job to make sure we have hits, we have songs that work for live or work on the radio, an artist that’s got uniqueness to him that fits differently than everything else in the market place and sometimes it’s just plain old dumb luck. We’ve got all those where we’re like, “We though this person had everything they needed, was need for success and it didn’t work, and this one over here it’s that seedling and it’s just growing like crazy.Seth: Yeah, sometimes you don’t know or probably more often than not, I would think.Steve: How many songs have you worked on and said, “Man, that’s the hit.” I have a memory of I will eat my shoe if this is not [inaudible 26:04][Laughter] I believe you owe me a shoe eaten.Seth: I’m wearing Nikes right now. I have a feeling that this material is not organic.Chris: I was going to say, whatever you choose make sure its biodegradable.Steve: I was going to send you a shoe after one particular sock.[Laughter]We’ve all got them dude.Seth: Oh yeah, totally. I think more often than not and it’s honestly becoming a theme on this show is, we’re all just kind of winging it we’re all just guessing. So, my question to that is, I mean, it sounds like there’s a lot of responsibility placed on the shoulders of an A&R person. They’re the one that’s finding and nurturing talent and ultimately seeing what songs make it on records.I think a lot of people listening in our podcast audience, we have a lot of producers and writers and people outside of the music industry but then there are also probably some people who are just wanting to get in on the music business side and people who maybe want to be in music marketing or be in music management or maybe do what you’re doing someday, run a record label. You said what you look for interns, what qualifies a person to be an A&R person?Steve: Wow. Interesting. There are a few A&R guys you should interview. A great A&R person is able to inspire an artist beyond what they’ve every thought they could do. A great A&R person knows how to get a good song to a great song. We’re no longer in a society that good is not good enough, it has to be great. A great A&R guy can go, “You know what? There are seedlings, there are moments in here that are really great.” But you’re missing the mark I these two or three places. And then, coming in and sitting side by side with a producer like you and making sure that… I think that I’m a big movie buff and A&R guy is sort of like an executive producer on a movie where you put the team together and then sort of let the team go make the music. So, it’s the right producer for the right, for the right song and for the right artists and then let them shine where they go. It’s very much putting the pieces together. They’re not usually playing the music, they’re not [inaudible 28:34] musicians, they have to have a really good song sense and I think one of the skills an A&R guy has to know is, it’s not about them. They’ve got to know their audience, know what they’re making for because all of us have a tendency to gravitate towards music that’s on the fringe because we listen to so much stuff that all of the stuff in the middle starts mucking up. There’s a big muck in the middle. So, “you know what I like? I like this thing way over here or way over there.” Where a normal consumer listens to 10 records a year, the middle is the sweet spot for them. So, an A&R guy that understands who he’s trying to record for is very important.Seth: That’s very good. And, you said that they have to have a great song sense, that is even a sticky situation because why is one person’s song sense better than the other? Is that determined by track record? And, if you’ve never done A&R before, how do you prove that, hey I know a hit when I hear one?Steve: You know what? Our history of…John Mays is a 25 years somebody took a chance on him 27 years ago and said “You’re a great musician on the road, let me bring you in here.” Part is the relationship, you know, can they sit and hang with an artist? You know, you’ve been in these mediums. Where it’s like can you move an artist from A to Z while making the artist think it’s their move? As a producer it’s the same skill set of can you get an artist to bend without knowing that they’re bending? Or being able to move–Seth: All the artists out there, they just had a–Steve: I know they had a convulsion.[Laughter]And all the producer are like, yeah![Laughter]But that’s part of it, of like how do you get a song… because you don’t want to tell an artist, “You know what? This song sucks.” You just want to say, “Let’s work on the chorus. The chorus isn’t paying off hard enough, let’s make it lift better. Let’s make it shine.” Whatever it may be, moving them away from, “I love this, this is my baby. It’s beautiful.” To let’s keep working on this song.Seth: So, it sounds like it maybe starts with who they are as a person. Are they a good hang? Are they a servant? And then, the music kind of just follows and that taste follows.Steve: Our young A&R guy over there, he went through our radio department so he was listening to radio hits, radio hits, radio hits. And part of it is… There’s marketing guy named Roy Williams, I went to a seminar with him and he said he has a friend that works at General Market Record Label to pick all the singles and I’m like, “How did you learn this?” And the guy basically said, “Since I was five years old, every week I’d get my allowance and I would go buy the number one song in America.” And so for his whole life, he poured into himself hits. This is what a hit sounds like, this is what a hit sounds like, this is what a hit sounds like.Seth: That’s pretty good wisdom, right there.Steve: And so, at a certain point you go, you got to know our music, you got to listen to our music, you got to know what a hit sounds like. I’ve heard a lot of kids come though “I hate listening to Christian radio.” Then why do you listen to Christian music? How many people in country music go, “[inaudible 32:11] but I hate country music.” Get out! You’re not going to succeed.[Laughter]But they almost wear it as a banner that I hate Christian music in our market place. We have an open concept office and I’ll try to listen to two hours of Christian radio every day in my office. And if I’m listening to it, everybody in my office is listening to it too; more for this is what a hit sounds like, this is what radio sounds lie. If you’re trying to meet a need at radio and you don’t know what they’re playing, how can you meet the need? So…I digress, sorry.Seth: No, that’s gold. That’s all gold.Steve: I think you nailed it in your earlier podcast when you said, this is a servant industry. It really is. And in my life, it took me a lot of time to figure out what my calling was. I knew I wasn’t an artist but God, what does that mean? And I was walking through Exodus with my kids when they were very young and hit Exodus 17 where God say to Moses, they’re out of Egypt heading towards the Promised Land and they hit the Analcites, God calls Moses up to the hill top; arms up in the air he wins, arms down they lose. But what never caught to me until I was reading it, Moses took two people along with him Aaron and Hur and I love to say I am the Hur in the Moses’ life. It’s my job, what Hur was up there to do is to hold Moses’ arms up, that’s all he did. When Moses was weak, when Moses needed help, Hur held his hands up. That’s my calling be a servant, be there to hold your hands up. Some people know Aaron “Aaron, you know, Moses’ little brother.” No one knows who Hur is. If you’re okay standing, holding someone’s arms up and no one recognizes, you are created to be in the music industry. Because you’re not in to be the rock stars; we’re in the back of the room with our arms folded, looking at the person on stage going, “Yeah. I was there to hold their arms up.”Chris: That’s wise. One of my favorite movies is That Thing You Do, I don’t know if any of you have seen that.Steve: Yeah. I’m the guy that goes, “You look great in black.”[Laughter]Chris: Has anyone told you that?Steve: Yeah.Chris: But, one of my favorite characters in the movie, and they’re filled with them. Anybody out there that hasn’t seen it, it’s a great movie.Steve: Please, go see it.Chris: But there’s Horus who’s basically the A&R guy that sees them in–Steve: In the camper-[Laughter]Chris: Yeah, he lives in a camper and he’s essentially the A&R guy. But he sees them in a performance at an Italian restaurant or something and comes and buys their album and get’s them to sign a little deal. And then at the end, when they get signed to a major label and they’re going out to play these state fairs, Horus leaves and the main character drummer of the band says, “We don’t want you to leave.” And he goes, “My [inaudible 35:27] is done. I’ve done what I’m supposed to do.” And then move on to the next thing and so he wasn’t meant to ride that out the whole movie; he’s there for a specific piece to move it from A to C. He’s the B part of it, the Hur of that story so to speak.Steve: Nowadays, you’d call them just production deals. You start working with an unknown artist who has a little bit of talent, you start developing them and then you start shopping them to record labels. And then you go, my job here is done. They then take the baton and now try to make to a national artist. If you make 2 out of 20, 3 out of 20, you’re in great shape. You’re a hall of fame baseball player if you hit 3 out of 10. And you’re a hall of fame A&R guy if 3 out of your 10 are hit artists.It’s a cycle, you have the young artist going up; you have the artist at their peak; and then you have some that are on their way down. And you’ve got to keep that circle going because any artist that’s been at the top is going to be past its peak and slowly work its way down, and you got to have the new artist coming up behind to grow into. So it’s a continual cycle of in the music industry. The circle of life in music would be that.Chris: I had a mentor –Scott [inaudible 36:48] if you’re listening I’m about to talk about you- but he always talked about how life in the ministry or in a career is kind of like looking at life or the people that you interact is like a watching a parade go by. There are things that are right in front of you, there are things that you just saw, and there are things that are coming down. And to really appreciate what is happening in the parade you have to absorb it all. And so there’s a little bit of grabbing from each of those in order to get the full experience of it all.Steve: And the bigger what’s right in front of you, the bigger those artists are in front of you, sometimes you don’t have time to look behind and develop what’s behind and what happens is with a lot of these record labels and I’ve been at these where, man they’ve got the big, and they slowly slipping. The [inaudible 37:32] slowly start getting past their prime and they haven’t developed anything behind them and then you’re in trouble because you’ve got this machine you’ve got to feed and you haven’t created for the future, it’s only for the present.And so, every A&R guy wants to sing but some of the big labels, the big artists, the A’s are so big that’s all they’re paying attention to. We’ve all seen it, we’ve all seen artists where we say, “Man, they’re amazing” but they got lost in the shuffle and that’s the sadness. We forget that we’re playing with people’s lives, especially on the record label side their dreams.I signed this band at a label and they were 18 years old when I signed them and 21 years old when I had to drop them. So, their dreams had come true and shattered by the time they were 21. And it’s just hard when you start thinking about that stuff.Chris: That’s true. And if you think about it there are some people that are fortunate enough to have a full career in the music industry and there are some people that have a three year window kind of like a profession sports guy or those things. There’s a window and the once you pass it, yeah but the guy is only 24 and the band is only 21. What’s coming up for them?Steve: You know what, I think it’s a catalyst of those people leaving or burning out, is balance. You guys have said it; I can walk through a record label at 8 o’clock at night and I can tell you which employees will be gone in a year because they have nothing to put back into themselves. The music industry is a take industry, it just continues squeezing and it just wants more and more and more. If you have one they want five; if you have five we want ten; if we have ten we want twenty, and it’s never enough. My poor radio team goes, “Hey we got number one.” And I’m like, “Great. How do we keep it on number one for another week?” It’s never enough and so you continue squeezing out what this industry does, if you don’t have a ministry, if you don’t have a relationship, if you don’t have friends that give back to you that don’t care what you do  for a living and basically go, “Yeah, yeah. You do music, how are you?” You know, if there aren’t nursing students at the college that you got to that are your friends, you’re going to burn out.  Because there’s nothing giving back, there’s no one pouring into you. Sooner or later the candle ends, there’s no more fuel and it juts burns out.So, I try to keep my staff saying, I want you to go to concerts and date people and go home at 6 o’clock and have a life. Because if you don’t have a life you have nothing to come back when you come back tomo

THE TRUE ALCHEMISTby Sonya Taaffefor Mat JoinerWhatever they left in the garden, Seth, I don’t think it wants to stay there.The man and the woman who came about the gas meter yesterday, or maybe it was the water bill? I had a deadline, I barely noticed them except for the noises they made, the crunch of shoes on stiff grass, scrapes and clangs as if they were wrestling the dustbins back against the garage door, a sudden snap of bracken that startled me until I remembered the rose-canes you’d pulled down in great, dry-cracking armfuls, their petals the soft and blotted brown of foxed paper, dead as the end of Sleeping Beauty——I forgot to call the city to take them away, brambling like baling wire beside the shed...A full transcript appears under the cut:----more----[Music plays]Hello! Welcome to GlitterShip episode two for April 9th, 2015. I’m your host, Keffy, and I’m super excited to be sharing these stories with you.My intro is going to be much shorter than it ought to be this week. Um, it turns out I was sick all of last week and that it was pneumonia. Of all things. I know. Seriously, what are the chances.Although, speaking of chances, I want to thank everyone who took the chance and pledged money toward the GlitterShip Kickstarter campaign. We successfully funded on April 8th and our final tally was $5,015!This means that not only is GlitterShip funded through the first year, but I’ll also be able to bring on other readers for many of the stories going forward, and there will be four episodes a month instead of two, and one story a month will never have been published anywhere ever before!I’m still working on the logistics regarding the submissions period for original fiction, but as soon as I know, I will make an announcement and update the submissions guidelines.This week, I have three very short stories for you by three awesome authors.I’m starting with “The True Alchemist” by Sonya Taaffe.Sonya Taaffe's short fiction and poetry can be found in the collections Ghost Signs (Aqueduct Press), A Mayse-Bikhl (Papaveria Press), Postcards from the Province of Hyphens (Prime Books), and Singing Innocence and Experience (Prime Books), and in anthologies including Aliens: Recent Encounters, Beyond Binary: Genderqueer and Sexually Fluid Speculative Fiction, The Moment of Change: An Anthology of Feminist Speculative Poetry, People of the Book: A Decade of Jewish Science Fiction & Fantasy, The Year’s Best Fantasy and Horror, The Alchemy of Stars: Rhysling Award Winners Showcase, and The Best of Not One of Us. She is currently senior poetry editor at Strange Horizons; she holds master’s degrees in Classics from Brandeis and Yale and once named a Kuiper belt object. She lives in Somerville with her husband and two cats. She maintains a livejournal at Myth Happens.THE TRUE ALCHEMISTby Sonya Taaffefor Mat JoinerWhatever they left in the garden, Seth, I don’t think it wants to stay there.The man and the woman who came about the gas meter yesterday, or maybe it was the water bill? I had a deadline, I barely noticed them except for the noises they made, the crunch of shoes on stiff grass, scrapes and clangs as if they were wrestling the dustbins back against the garage door, a sudden snap of bracken that startled me until I remembered the rose-canes you’d pulled down in great, dry-cracking armfuls, their petals the soft and blotted brown of foxed paper, dead as the end of Sleeping Beauty—I forgot to call the city to take them away, brambling like baling wire beside the shed. Two of the city’s representatives banging around in our back garden and I didn't think to ask them, crouched over my computer with a legion of tea mugs cluttering up among the books and less than sixteen hours before Nora was going to run out of excuses to make to the publisher on my sorry, late-arsed behalf, I didn't even mark the color of their eyes or the length of their hair. They were white as winter sunshine, dressed in coveralls as if for dirtier work than reading a meter. You won’t have any more trouble, sir, the woman said on her way out, or maybe it was the man; I was nearly throwing them out at that point, giving that rattled manic grin that is supposed to pass for comradely homeownership, presumably to soften the slam of door in face—I knew I should have pretended to be sick, or in the shower, or just not at home. I’m a bad liar when I don’t have time to think. I’m too good at it when I do. Seth, the garden’s fucked. Call me tonight or come home. Or both.Seth, I know the conference isn't over till Sunday, but could you just tell them it’s an emergency—the cat’s on fire, the kitchen blew up, your husband is having a baby? I got the article sent off on time and I haven’t slept since. Or I can’t tell if I’m sleeping, rolling over and over through dreams of the same cold, entangling sheets, vacant and huge around one person in this bed that’s a jigsaw puzzle for two, the same little sounds rustling up the back stairs, fanning underneath the windowframe with the icy slip of the air. It sounds like footsteps moving unhurriedly on frost-brittle grass, the squeal and judder of metal dragged over asphalt chips; it sounds like a trampling of dead branches, each as sharp and sick as a bone-break, the knuckle-pop crackling of twigs wrung like a neck. So fast. I think murder instead of horticulture, intruders instead of rats or the cats that hunt them. The swimming cathedral light before dawn looks like the underside of water to a long-drowned man. I made a point of shaving, combing my hair, putting on a different sweater. I haven’t been out all day. I've taken all my pills, including the ones I try to ration; Nora knows I'm feeling skittish—it’s not like she can pretend not to when I turn in a page and a half of self-recrimination with the other twenty-five about Philoktetes and the poisons and cures of language. I'll call Dr. Linsey if it gets much weirder. I won’t call anyone. I’m crap at self-care. I’ll just sit here drinking our ever-diminishing hoard of tea and typing run-on sentences, knowing it’s not like New York is three days away by transatlantic steamer anymore and it doesn't matter. Our neighbors are right there on the other side of the kitchen window—washing dishes, in fact, side by side with soapy plates and dishrag in some urban equivalent of a tranquil, pastoral scene—and it doesn't matter. I might as well be on the far side of the moon. If the moon were haunted by the smell of oil and leaf-mold, slick as a slug’s track or petrol-spill. Seth, this is bad. I hate that fucking mobile, I wouldn't check my e-mail on it to win a bet, but I've started carrying it like a locket, as if it really contained something of you. I’d check the gas meter if I could go outside. Or the water. I went outside. I want to stress that very carefully. I unlocked the back door and I went down and I stood in the garden, freezing, hugging myself over the sweater I hadn't thought to supplement with a jacket or even a scarf, breathing out sharp quick clouds that hurt as much to draw breath for as it did to stand there with the no-colored sun in my eyes, the sky pressing down on my hair and my shoulders and the backs of my hands, seeing me. The neighbors with their curtainless windows, locked in newlywed oblivion: two mirrors gazing into each other endlessly. Passing cars, passers-by, graffiti hanging over the wall. The air.Our garden, Seth. It doesn't move after all. It might be a machine, if machines were pinned and carved from rose-thorns and rain-torn petals and withered cuttings, blown dandelions and willowherb wreathed in seed-silk like a questioning cigarette; it might have grown there, if rails of brick-spiked iron and clagged tin could throw out runners, coil delicately to follow the sun. There was a ragged round of copper crept in green from the edges, turning like a suncatcher as the verdigris crawled. There was a spiderweb beaded from one prong of fused glass to a tarnished silver spike of lamb’s ear, glittering cleanly in the morning chill. It saw me. That was when I went upstairs, and I left a message at your hotel, and I did not take any more of my pills than I was supposed to, and I went to bed. It was cold and bright and the sounds came up through the walls, from nothing moving around where the neighbors, or me, or anything at all could see. After a while it started to sound familiar. After that I really couldn't sleep. I dreamed anyway. There was a door. How is this supposed to end, Seth? You’d drop everything if I checked myself in, but I don’t want to be that hungry ghost when I don’t need to, Eurydike-reeling myself in and out of the dark to see if you’ll brave it one more time for me; I don’t want you to find me with an empty bottle or emptier wrists, curled in the rime-blackened ruins of our garden like a child on a cold hill’s side. You've got epidemics to talk about and I've got my contagion here at home, allowed passage like every good haunting—any more trouble, but then maybe I don’t. It smells very strongly like burning now, acrid as antifreeze, sweet as spiced woods, and I think of an engine turning over, cogs and pistons and sap and steam. I think of pavement cracking like a caddis-husk, ice-starred earth rumbling like a drum. If it doesn't want to stay here, Seth, I won’t stop it: I’ll hold the gate for it just as I let it in, or I’ll sit here and drink the last of the black ginger tea, typing sentences that don’t stop as usual; we’ll get more when you’re home. The cat’s not on fire. The garden’s fucked, but aren't we all? Maybe it will tell me when it goes, knowing we feel the same way about an audience. I’m truthful when I need to be, too.ENDOur next story is “Ulder” by Vajra Chandrasekera.Vajra lives in Colombo, Sri Lanka. His stories have appeared in Clarkesworld, Black Static, and Shimmer, among others. You can find more work by him at vajra.me.ULDERby Vajra Chandrasekera“Ulder,” said the man in the hat, leaning in, lips barely moving. His eyes darted, as if anyone else on the train would hear him through their prophylactic earplugs. We were the only two with ears open."What?" I said, too loud. The man in the hat leaned away, mouth tight, beard bristling. He didn't look at me again.At the station, guardsmen took the man in the hat away. I watched them go out of the corner of my eye; they'd knocked his hat off when they took him down, and his hair was tousled from the scuffle. I couldn't see the hat anywhere, but there were so many people on the platform. I imagined it, briefly, crushed and stepped on somewhere in the press.I mentioned the word to Kirill in bed that night, and he stiffened, asked me where I'd heard it."He didn't tell you what it meant?" Kirill asked when I'd told him the story."What does it mean? Do you know?"Kirill hesitated so long that I prodded him to see if he'd fallen asleep. "You know I hate it when you keep secrets," I said."Don't be melodramatic," Kirill said.And then he told me what the word meant.It was several days before I thought to ask him how he had known the word. I spent those days in a haze, raw and newborn. The wind seemed colder. I started letting my beard grow. The long bones in my shins felt weak, as if from fever. And the word, it reverberated in me, growing echoes like fungi in the dark.Ulder, I said to myself at my desk, working and writing. But only inside, so that the other people in my office wouldn't hear me. I needn't have worried; they all wore prophylactics anyway.Ulder, I said to myself when I saw uniforms on the street, guardsmen arresting someone.("Disappearing," Kirill had once said, early in our acquaintance. "Not arresting, disappearing them." And I only thought, this man is free and beautiful. But if I had known the word then I would not have thought ulder, because Kirill was never that.)Ulder, I whispered when they broadcast the prayer-anthems, tinny from loudspeakers, in the evening as I walked to the railway station. I used to mumble along to the prayers out of habit, never seeing what was in front of me.Ulder, ulder, ulder.I said it out loud the next time Kirill and I slept together. It had been almost a week, because we couldn't afford to be seen together too often. Kirill flinched as soon as I said it. He rolled out of bed, lighting one of his contraband cigarettes."Now who's being melodramatic?" I said.The cigarettes were very Kirill. That was both the extent and the nature of his rebellion; slick, sly, sweet-smelling, carcinogenic."I was afraid you'd react to it this way," Kirill said. "Some are immune to memetically transmitted disease. But you--""MTDs don't exist," I said. "I've told you, it's just state propaganda against disapproved ideologies. Ulder--""Don't say it to me," Kirill said, laughing his bitter tar laugh and coughing. "What do you know about it? I was the one who told--"I don't want to talk about the fight. That's not the way I want to remember him. But we shouted a lot, and I think someone must have heard.A few more days went by, and I wanted to make it up to him. So I went to see him at the teahouse where we usually met after work. But even as I got there, I knew from the commotion that something was wrong. I didn't recognize Kirill's walk at first, pressed between the guardsmen as they marched him out of the building and into the waiting van. I only realized it was him when he laughed, bitter like tar.Not knowing what else to do, I took the train home. It was crowded, as always, and I hung from the strap like a drowning man. And when the young woman, the only other person in the carriage without earplugs in, caught my eye, I didn't have a choice.I knew what would happen, that it wouldn't go unremarked, that you'd be waiting for me on the platform with your batons.But in her eyes I saw a moment of openness, that fragile and fractured thing I had always seen in the mirror and never recognized until I heard the word, and though I knew she wouldn't understand and I couldn't explain, I leaned in and said “Ulder”, the word naked and bright like fever in my mouth.ENDOur next story is "The Sewell Home for the Temporally Displaced" by Sarah Pinsker.Sarah Pinsker is the author of the novelette, "In Joy, Knowing the Abyss Behind," Sturgeon Award winner 2014 and Nebula finalist 2013. Her fiction has been published in magazines including Asimov's, Strange Horizons, Fantasy & Science Fiction, Lightspeed, Daily Science Fiction, The Journal of Unlikely Cartography, Fireside, Stupefying Stories, and PULP Literature, and in anthologies including Long Hidden, Fierce Family, and The Future Embodied.She is also a singer/songwriter with three albums on various independent labels (the third with her rock band, the Stalking Horses) and a fourth forthcoming. She lives in Baltimore, Maryland and can be found online at sarahpinsker.com and twitter.com/sarahpinsker.THE SEWELL HOME FOR THE TEMPORALLY DISPLACEDby Sarah PinskerJudy says, "It's snowing."I look out the window. The sky is the same dirty grey as the snow left from last week's storm. I stand up to look closer, to find a backdrop against which I might see what she sees. The radiator is warm against my knees."You don't mean now." It's not really a question, but she shakes her head. She looks through me, through another window, at other weather. She smiles. Whenever she is, it must be beautiful."Describe it for me," I say."Big, fluffy snow. The kind that doesn't melt when it lands on your gloves. Big enough to see the shapes of individual flakes.""Do you know when you are?"She strains to catch a different view. "1890s, maybe? The building across the street hasn't been built yet. I wish I could see down to the street, Marguerite."Judy isn't supposed to leave her bed, but I help her into her yellow slippers, help her to her feet. I try to make myself strong enough for her to lean on. We shuffle to the window. She looks down."There's a Brougham* waiting at the front door. The horse is black, and he must have been driven hard, because the snow that's collecting elsewhere is just melting when it hits him. There's steam coming off him."I don't say anything. I can't see it, but I can picture it."Somebody came out of the building. He's helping a woman out of the carriage," she says. "Her clothes don't match the era or the season. She's wearing jeans and a T-shirt.""A Distillers T-shirt," I say."Yes! Can you see her too?""No," I say. "That was me, the first time I came here. I didn't stay long, that first time."I hear the creak of the door. It's Zia, my least favorite of the nurses. She treats us like children. "Judy, what are we doing up? We could get hurt if we have an episode."She turns to me. "And you, Marguerite. We should know better to encourage her.""Your pronouns are very confusing," I tell her.She ignores me. "Well, let's get down to lunch, since we're both up and about."Zia puts Judy in a wheelchair. I follow them down to the dining room, slow and steady. She pushes Judy up to the first available space, at a table with only one vacancy. I'm forced to sit across the room. I don't like being so far away from her. I would make a fuss, but I try to tell myself we can stand to be apart for one meal. I keep an eye on her anyway.Judy isn't fully back yet. She doesn't touch her food. Mr. Kahn and Michael Lim and Grace de Villiers are all talking across her. Mr. Kahn is floating his spoon, demonstrating the finer points of the physics of his first time machine, as he always does."Meatloaf again," mutters Emily Arnold, to my left. "I can't wait until vat protein is invented.""It tastes good enough, Emily. The food here is really pretty decent for an industrial kitchen in this time period." We've all had worse.We eat our meatloaf. Somebody at the far end of the room has a major episode and we're all asked to leave before we get our jello. I can't quite see who it is, but she's brandishing her butter knife like a cutlass, her legs braced against a pitching deck. The best kind of episode, where you're fully then again. We all look forward to those. It's funny that the staff act like it might be contagious. I wait in Judy's room for her to return. Zia wheels her in and lifts her into the bed. She's light as a bird, my Judy. Zia frowns when she sees me. I think she'd shoo me out more often if either of us had family that could lodge a complaint. Michael and Grace are allowed to eat together but not to visit each other's rooms. Grace's children think she shouldn't have a relationship now that she lives in so many times at once. Too confusing, they say, though Grace doesn't know whether they mean for them or for her."How was your dinner?" I ask Judy."I can't remember," she says. "But I saw you come in for the first time. You said 'How is this place real?' and young Mr. Kahn said 'Because someday all of us will build it.'""And then I asked 'When can I get started?' and he said 'You already did.'"I can see it now. The dining room was formal, then. Everyone stared when I came in, but most of the smiles were knowing ones. They understood the hazards of timesling. They had been there, or they were there, or they were going to be.Judy takes my hand. I lean over to kiss her."It's snowing," I say. "I can't wait to meet you."END*Brougham was changed to "carriage" for the audio version.“The True Alchemist” was first published in Not One of Us #51 in April 2014. “Ulder” was first published in Daily Science Fiction in July 2014. “The Sewell Home for the Temporally Displaced” was first published in the Women Destroy Science Fiction edition of Lightspeed Magazine in June 2014. This recording is a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives license which means you can share it with anyone you’d like, but please don’t change or sell it. Our theme is “Aurora Borealis” by Bird Creek, available through the Google Audio Library.Thanks for listening, and I’ll talk to you again on April 9th with a selection of three flash fiction stories.[Music plays out]This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.

Buy Seth's book, "Marriage Isn't For You" here: http://goo.gl/wFSZlR Buy the full interview here, and support the Anasazi Foundation and The Loveumentary: http://goo.gl/XopAZ2 "When you're looking for solutions, they have odd ways of making themselves appear.” -Seth "You never lose by loving. You never lose out by choosing to love somebody else." -Kim "You live when you give.” -Seth "To love is always going to be the right decision.” -Seth “The more you understand someone, the more you love them.” -Seth