Podcasts about steve you

Mut and Steve You're Live To Tape in-studio. Gus back in producing. Mut responds to throwing Kevin from Bristol under the bus (00:01:00). Stoolie's Clubhouse is named as a suspect after Mick vows to find whoever put a video of him on The Unnamed Show rundown (00:16:00). Mut gives an update on the UCONN job (00:54:05). Justin confirms Hooter's is officially off the table. (01:21:20). Cliff admits he has no idea how to play zone defense (01:31:00).You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/kminshow

Wives get to thinking about how life is too short.Based on the works of CoyoteHoward. Listen to the Podcast at Steamy Stories. Jenny & The Barbeque GatheringIt was the picture of Americana in southwest Idaho.A partly cloudy sky, with more sun than shade. Deep green grass. Horses munching away in the pasture while the kids, whose ages ranged from 2-16, played on the trampoline and playset.The husbands primarily were under the porch overhang, gathered around the grill, while Osvaldo and his 8 year old son Elliot jokingly played corn-hole in the grass.Their wives were on the furniture on the other end of the porch, doing as women do, keeping an eye on the children for the most part and enjoying their own trials and tribulations. Most of which focused on family dramas, future plans and prices for various groceries."Yeah, so what I'd like to do," Brady said, beginning to flip the burgers from the top left, "is kinda what you did, but I'd like to do 4 rails instead."Steve nodded and took a drink of beer from his Payette Brewing Co. bottle. He absentmindedly watched Brady do so, his left thumb tucked into the front pocket of his jeans, shifting his cowboy booted feet to equal distribution instead of one leg being cocked slightly. His slight belly showed his 36 years of age, and while he didn't like it, and wished he could find the consistent motivation to work out, his wife didn't mind, and his shirts still fit, including the plain white t-shirt he wore now."Yeah I don't mind the three, but the three inch- I wish I'd of been able to afford the three and a half," Steve said, shifting the bottle to his left and adjusting his multicam hat on his head, though it needn't be done. His brown, fade cut hair wasn't bothering him, it was more just a habit."You did your fence yourself?" Jeff asked. He was blond, worked out tons and was wearing a polo, cargo shorts and flip flops.Steve nodded, "Yeah the little mustang got out suddenly last year, little shit."The women meanwhile were discussing flowers."I'm so jealous of your little play area Jenny," Hannah said, taking a sip of her soda.She was married to Brady, and three of the tikes running around were hers. She was 36, was 5'7" and 133 pounds. She knew she was attractive, as all the women here were, but her husband appreciated her the most, and that's exactly the way she prefered it.They'd been married for well over 10 years, he was the father of all her babies, and they led a great life."Well it's been a lot of work, but yeah, it's coming together," Jenny said. "We've done a ton of work just to try and keep the weeds away." Her husband was Steve, and as she finished her sentence she looked over at her man.They'd been together the longest of the group of six couples, having been dating since junior year of high school, over 18 years prior. They had the second oldest child there, at 15, and the second youngest as well, a three year old girl.They'd been the ones to leave though, he going into the Army right after high school and finally leaving six years prior, and they'd all reconnected.Steve was still her king though, and she his queen, as they routinely told each other. Even now, as Heather, a half-asian, half-hispanic woman asked her about the newest berry they'd planted Jenny couldn't help but think about what her king had done to her last night, and her panties got warm under her flowery, blue, spaghetti-strapped sundress.Steve noticed her looking at him, and flashed her a smile, giving his queen a fun wink.And that's why she couldn't help but love him. He just did those little kinds of things that other men didn't with their wives. Sure he had a temper, he played video games, his memory was horrible.But his positives more than made up for it."I'd like to plant blackberries, especially if they have uh, no thorns," Amanda winked, and took a bite of potato salad. She was a short, slightly heavy black haired woman married to Osvaldo.She looked over and saw her son and husband playing cornhole still, though Jeff and Joe had gone over to play with them. They were married to Heather and Ellen, respectively, to Amanda's left."Yeah me too," Hannah said, to which the others laughed slightly."Bullshit," Kelly said, deciphering the code words; "You have too much going on already. Brady would strangle you!""Oh he'd be a little upset, but he always cools off," Hannah said, chuckling.But Jenny couldn't get the thought out of her mind now. The thought of how Steve had taken extra care to put the baby to bed, to not play Mass Effect, and to take her to bed.He'd sweetly pulled her jeans off, then nuzzled and licked at her cunt through her panties until she'd cum, THEN he had proceeded to have his way with her, bringing her off several more times before finishing off inside her.She imagined she could still feel his cum, making her wetter still.She suddenly looked at the whole situation. At everyone around her and the thought of them getting old, tired, and ending..."Hannah, watch Claire for me. I'm gonna go get fucked silly in your powder room," she said, locking eyes with her friend and rising with a slight smirk.Hannah's eyes went wide as she choked slightly and let out a huge smile."What?!" she exclaimed, but Jenny was already striding across the patio to her man."Did she just-""What did she say?""Whoa!""Hahaha! Oh shit she's really doing it!"Jenny had reached Steve, grabbed him by the belt buckle with one hand and had begun leading him away, walking forward as if leading a stud to a mare."Hey babe, whoa, what's up?" he asked.She turned and smirked a small smile at him, and she knew it achieved the desired affect. Her intentions must have been written all over her face, because he couldn't help but put his beer down and follow, his own smile bursting forth.She lead him through the door and didn't give him time to properly shut it, but he was able to with a strong hand."Jen, what are you doing?" Steve asked, grabbing her wrist. She was closer to her target though."I need you," she said, suddenly breathless as she kissed him deeply, her sexy body pressing up against his.She made sure to press her bra'ed 34C breasts into his chest, her left hand around his back, her right up in his short hair.Steve's hands went around her pinched waist first, then his left up her side and back while his right went around and down to her plump ass, cupping and kneading.She moaned at the touches, then broke the french kiss and backed away towards the half-bath by the front door.Steve followed eagerly and suddenly they were in the little bathroom, finding the light and locking the door behind them."Hun, what's gotten int-ohh shit!" Steve started, but she hushed him by immediately dropping to her knees, and getting his jeans undone."Damn girl, the fuck has gotten into you suddenly?" he asked, as she got the front of his pants open, not pausing and pulled down his underwear too. But his hands went to her head, lightly rubbing the sides and back encouragingly."Can't I just want my husband?" she asked before throating his semi-hard, 6 inch cock in one go."Ah fuck," he said, his biology taking over for a moment as he thrust his hips an inch forward, his hands tightening on her head.Her tongue was going crazy on the underside of his shaft, the tip even coming past her bottom lip slightly to lick his balls as much as she could, and he got rigid hard in moments.He gasped and breathed as if he were in pain, but she knew he wasn't. Jenny didn't give him head very often, so this must be a real treat for him. Though truth be told, this was a means to an end. She bobbed her face on his crotch for a dozen or so pumps, until she felt his cockhead nudge the back of her throat. That end was now.She rose, looked him in the eye as her right hand grasped his hard prick, some of her hair in her eye as she did so, stroking it in short strokes as she turned to the vanity and mirror.God she looked slutty. One of her spaghetti straps had fallen off her shoulder and her lips were an excited red from having just been stretched in an obscene 'O' around his magnificent cock.But she could still FEEL her sex drive though, his taste still in her mouth. Her boobs were hypersensitive in their confines, feeling wonderfully constrained as she breathed, and her panties were probably soaked through.She pulled up the hem of her dress and bent over the counter, looking back at him over her right shoulder."God, just fuck me. Fuck me!" she said, "I need it."Steve couldn't refuse this personification of pure lust in front of him. She wasn't his wife in this moment. She was a bitch in heat. A mare in season. And he was going to give her the beast she needed.He grabbed her brief-cut panties with both hands and yanked them down with animalistic urgency to her feet, where she stepped out with one sandaled foot.He then rose and put his right hand to her cunt, immediately confirming how wanton she was by the heat and wetness he found there, easily one of the wettest times he'd ever seen her."Oh fuck," she said, finding her own lustful gaze looking back at her in the vanity mirror, feeling his fingers run through her sex from her clit(which he brushed ever so slightly) right up to her asshole. She knew he must've thought about playing with it, as she'd let him take her ass several times in the past year, finally.But he didn't linger, instead he stepped right up to her bent over body and slid his steel hard cock into her cunt, all in one go."Oh! Oh fuck! Oh god that feels soo good!" she practically screamed, but huskily.His hands went to her wide hips, finding her pelvic bones that made the perfect obscene handles, beginning to piston her cunt, slowly.But she wanted more, she wanted to be fucked, and fucked well.She looked over her shoulder at him, "Steve, god damnit, Fuck me!" With each stressed word she pushed herself back on his cock, sparks flying from her sopping cunt through her body as she did so as his rod plowed her depths.Out at the patio, the ladies' conversation suddenly halted when the screams and moans were faintly heard coming from the little vent, high on the side of the house. It piped the narrative from the powder room, just on the other side of the brick exterior. First Claire took notice, then all the ladies went silent, their devilish grins showing their vicarious delight. A couple of the guys noticed the silence over at the other end of the covered patio, then all the guys heard the faint echo of a raging hormonal woman's voice could just barely be heard yelling; “Steve, God damnit. Fuck me!”Jenny was rewarded with her stud pulling her hips back so that she'd fall backwards if he wasn't there, cock lodged inside her. Her hands were wrapped tightly around the spout of the faucet, now somewhat in front of her as her hair swung with his thrusts. Her tits were swaying as much as her bra would allow, and the pulling on her chest added to her sexual experience. The thumb of her left hand subconsciously rubbed the underside of the chrome spout, but in her entranced state, she imagined it was Steve's turgid cock.In moments he was fucking her hard. Fast. Making her ass jiggle with every impact of his pelvis. She felt his cock running though her with abandon, the heat from her cunt quickly turning into a fire, then a blaze, until stars burst in her vision and she screamed a carnal, drawn out "ah" in orgasm, her legs shaking uncontrollably. “Steve, you beast!” she screamed in satisfaction.Her hands slipped as they clenched and gripped the sink, Steve stepping up as her hips were pushed forward against the edge of the counter.Whereas moments before she'd cum from her assertive pushing back, now she was trapped with nowhere to go. More precisely, her hole couldn't get away from the prick fucking it.Jenny realized that she'd be forced to cum at least again, maybe more even. Her king had slowed as he'd trapped her, bringing his hands up to her shoulders and finding new grips with which to pound her.She looked up and saw her sweaty self in the mirror again, her jaw dropped open as she breathed heavy with sexual arousal, her whole body jarring with each impact of Steve's hips against her ass.God she was so sexy, and her cunt was doing such a good job of clenching around the invader, her body doing as it was designed to do, trying to bring the penis inside it to orgasm. Her hole wanted his semen. That was its purpose, to get fucked and filled by cum, so she could carry his child.And it was working, her own voice raising with every fourth or fifth quickening thrust as she felt her second orgasm building in her depths, Steve's cock hitting amazing pockets of nerves inside her.It suddenly was upon her as her left hand pressed against the mirror, her right coming around to grab Steve's hip as her cunt exploded in pleasure, her eyes wide. She rocked herself back as he tried to pull out for another thrust, trying to keep him inside her as she came, throwing her head in an out of control nodding motion and half panting, half exclaiming "ahs.”Steve for his part wasn't faring well on holding out. He regularly told Jenny that her orgasms would collect massive amounts of cash on the internet, and they usually brought him off. But Jenny had never been this needy before, and though she did have bouts of increased sexual activity, this was a whole new level.As she came again for the second time, the thrashing of her head, her hair flying and her hand on the mirror, almost got him.It was her hand landing on his right side, hip and ass cheek coupled with her rocking cunt clenching on his shaft that got him. He slammed forward to the hilt as his cum rose from his balls, rocketing down his weapon until it fired into her hot sheathe.Again and again it fired, "Oh yeah! Uh! Uh! Uh! Take it baby!" he said through blurred vision and clenched teeth.Out on the patio, the ladies were squirming; embarrassed, but getting aroused. Claire was frustrated when she had to go comfort a child who tripped and fell in the play area; “Tell me what I'm missing, Kelly.”

Wives get to thinking about how life is too short.Based on the works of CoyoteHoward. Listen to the Podcast at Steamy Stories. Jenny & The Barbeque GatheringIt was the picture of Americana in southwest Idaho.A partly cloudy sky, with more sun than shade. Deep green grass. Horses munching away in the pasture while the kids, whose ages ranged from 2-16, played on the trampoline and playset.The husbands primarily were under the porch overhang, gathered around the grill, while Osvaldo and his 8 year old son Elliot jokingly played corn-hole in the grass.Their wives were on the furniture on the other end of the porch, doing as women do, keeping an eye on the children for the most part and enjoying their own trials and tribulations. Most of which focused on family dramas, future plans and prices for various groceries."Yeah, so what I'd like to do," Brady said, beginning to flip the burgers from the top left, "is kinda what you did, but I'd like to do 4 rails instead."Steve nodded and took a drink of beer from his Payette Brewing Co. bottle. He absentmindedly watched Brady do so, his left thumb tucked into the front pocket of his jeans, shifting his cowboy booted feet to equal distribution instead of one leg being cocked slightly. His slight belly showed his 36 years of age, and while he didn't like it, and wished he could find the consistent motivation to work out, his wife didn't mind, and his shirts still fit, including the plain white t-shirt he wore now."Yeah I don't mind the three, but the three inch- I wish I'd of been able to afford the three and a half," Steve said, shifting the bottle to his left and adjusting his multicam hat on his head, though it needn't be done. His brown, fade cut hair wasn't bothering him, it was more just a habit."You did your fence yourself?" Jeff asked. He was blond, worked out tons and was wearing a polo, cargo shorts and flip flops.Steve nodded, "Yeah the little mustang got out suddenly last year, little shit."The women meanwhile were discussing flowers."I'm so jealous of your little play area Jenny," Hannah said, taking a sip of her soda.She was married to Brady, and three of the tikes running around were hers. She was 36, was 5'7" and 133 pounds. She knew she was attractive, as all the women here were, but her husband appreciated her the most, and that's exactly the way she prefered it.They'd been married for well over 10 years, he was the father of all her babies, and they led a great life."Well it's been a lot of work, but yeah, it's coming together," Jenny said. "We've done a ton of work just to try and keep the weeds away." Her husband was Steve, and as she finished her sentence she looked over at her man.They'd been together the longest of the group of six couples, having been dating since junior year of high school, over 18 years prior. They had the second oldest child there, at 15, and the second youngest as well, a three year old girl.They'd been the ones to leave though, he going into the Army right after high school and finally leaving six years prior, and they'd all reconnected.Steve was still her king though, and she his queen, as they routinely told each other. Even now, as Heather, a half-asian, half-hispanic woman asked her about the newest berry they'd planted Jenny couldn't help but think about what her king had done to her last night, and her panties got warm under her flowery, blue, spaghetti-strapped sundress.Steve noticed her looking at him, and flashed her a smile, giving his queen a fun wink.And that's why she couldn't help but love him. He just did those little kinds of things that other men didn't with their wives. Sure he had a temper, he played video games, his memory was horrible.But his positives more than made up for it."I'd like to plant blackberries, especially if they have uh, no thorns," Amanda winked, and took a bite of potato salad. She was a short, slightly heavy black haired woman married to Osvaldo.She looked over and saw her son and husband playing cornhole still, though Jeff and Joe had gone over to play with them. They were married to Heather and Ellen, respectively, to Amanda's left."Yeah me too," Hannah said, to which the others laughed slightly."Bullshit," Kelly said, deciphering the code words; "You have too much going on already. Brady would strangle you!""Oh he'd be a little upset, but he always cools off," Hannah said, chuckling.But Jenny couldn't get the thought out of her mind now. The thought of how Steve had taken extra care to put the baby to bed, to not play Mass Effect, and to take her to bed.He'd sweetly pulled her jeans off, then nuzzled and licked at her cunt through her panties until she'd cum, THEN he had proceeded to have his way with her, bringing her off several more times before finishing off inside her.She imagined she could still feel his cum, making her wetter still.She suddenly looked at the whole situation. At everyone around her and the thought of them getting old, tired, and ending..."Hannah, watch Claire for me. I'm gonna go get fucked silly in your powder room," she said, locking eyes with her friend and rising with a slight smirk.Hannah's eyes went wide as she choked slightly and let out a huge smile."What?!" she exclaimed, but Jenny was already striding across the patio to her man."Did she just-""What did she say?""Whoa!""Hahaha! Oh shit she's really doing it!"Jenny had reached Steve, grabbed him by the belt buckle with one hand and had begun leading him away, walking forward as if leading a stud to a mare."Hey babe, whoa, what's up?" he asked.She turned and smirked a small smile at him, and she knew it achieved the desired affect. Her intentions must have been written all over her face, because he couldn't help but put his beer down and follow, his own smile bursting forth.She lead him through the door and didn't give him time to properly shut it, but he was able to with a strong hand."Jen, what are you doing?" Steve asked, grabbing her wrist. She was closer to her target though."I need you," she said, suddenly breathless as she kissed him deeply, her sexy body pressing up against his.She made sure to press her bra'ed 34C breasts into his chest, her left hand around his back, her right up in his short hair.Steve's hands went around her pinched waist first, then his left up her side and back while his right went around and down to her plump ass, cupping and kneading.She moaned at the touches, then broke the french kiss and backed away towards the half-bath by the front door.Steve followed eagerly and suddenly they were in the little bathroom, finding the light and locking the door behind them."Hun, what's gotten int-ohh shit!" Steve started, but she hushed him by immediately dropping to her knees, and getting his jeans undone."Damn girl, the fuck has gotten into you suddenly?" he asked, as she got the front of his pants open, not pausing and pulled down his underwear too. But his hands went to her head, lightly rubbing the sides and back encouragingly."Can't I just want my husband?" she asked before throating his semi-hard, 6 inch cock in one go."Ah fuck," he said, his biology taking over for a moment as he thrust his hips an inch forward, his hands tightening on her head.Her tongue was going crazy on the underside of his shaft, the tip even coming past her bottom lip slightly to lick his balls as much as she could, and he got rigid hard in moments.He gasped and breathed as if he were in pain, but she knew he wasn't. Jenny didn't give him head very often, so this must be a real treat for him. Though truth be told, this was a means to an end. She bobbed her face on his crotch for a dozen or so pumps, until she felt his cockhead nudge the back of her throat. That end was now.She rose, looked him in the eye as her right hand grasped his hard prick, some of her hair in her eye as she did so, stroking it in short strokes as she turned to the vanity and mirror.God she looked slutty. One of her spaghetti straps had fallen off her shoulder and her lips were an excited red from having just been stretched in an obscene 'O' around his magnificent cock.But she could still FEEL her sex drive though, his taste still in her mouth. Her boobs were hypersensitive in their confines, feeling wonderfully constrained as she breathed, and her panties were probably soaked through.She pulled up the hem of her dress and bent over the counter, looking back at him over her right shoulder."God, just fuck me. Fuck me!" she said, "I need it."Steve couldn't refuse this personification of pure lust in front of him. She wasn't his wife in this moment. She was a bitch in heat. A mare in season. And he was going to give her the beast she needed.He grabbed her brief-cut panties with both hands and yanked them down with animalistic urgency to her feet, where she stepped out with one sandaled foot.He then rose and put his right hand to her cunt, immediately confirming how wanton she was by the heat and wetness he found there, easily one of the wettest times he'd ever seen her."Oh fuck," she said, finding her own lustful gaze looking back at her in the vanity mirror, feeling his fingers run through her sex from her clit(which he brushed ever so slightly) right up to her asshole. She knew he must've thought about playing with it, as she'd let him take her ass several times in the past year, finally.But he didn't linger, instead he stepped right up to her bent over body and slid his steel hard cock into her cunt, all in one go."Oh! Oh fuck! Oh god that feels soo good!" she practically screamed, but huskily.His hands went to her wide hips, finding her pelvic bones that made the perfect obscene handles, beginning to piston her cunt, slowly.But she wanted more, she wanted to be fucked, and fucked well.She looked over her shoulder at him, "Steve, god damnit, Fuck me!" With each stressed word she pushed herself back on his cock, sparks flying from her sopping cunt through her body as she did so as his rod plowed her depths.Out at the patio, the ladies' conversation suddenly halted when the screams and moans were faintly heard coming from the little vent, high on the side of the house. It piped the narrative from the powder room, just on the other side of the brick exterior. First Claire took notice, then all the ladies went silent, their devilish grins showing their vicarious delight. A couple of the guys noticed the silence over at the other end of the covered patio, then all the guys heard the faint echo of a raging hormonal woman's voice could just barely be heard yelling; “Steve, God damnit. Fuck me!”Jenny was rewarded with her stud pulling her hips back so that she'd fall backwards if he wasn't there, cock lodged inside her. Her hands were wrapped tightly around the spout of the faucet, now somewhat in front of her as her hair swung with his thrusts. Her tits were swaying as much as her bra would allow, and the pulling on her chest added to her sexual experience. The thumb of her left hand subconsciously rubbed the underside of the chrome spout, but in her entranced state, she imagined it was Steve's turgid cock.In moments he was fucking her hard. Fast. Making her ass jiggle with every impact of his pelvis. She felt his cock running though her with abandon, the heat from her cunt quickly turning into a fire, then a blaze, until stars burst in her vision and she screamed a carnal, drawn out "ah" in orgasm, her legs shaking uncontrollably. “Steve, you beast!” she screamed in satisfaction.Her hands slipped as they clenched and gripped the sink, Steve stepping up as her hips were pushed forward against the edge of the counter.Whereas moments before she'd cum from her assertive pushing back, now she was trapped with nowhere to go. More precisely, her hole couldn't get away from the prick fucking it.Jenny realized that she'd be forced to cum at least again, maybe more even. Her king had slowed as he'd trapped her, bringing his hands up to her shoulders and finding new grips with which to pound her.She looked up and saw her sweaty self in the mirror again, her jaw dropped open as she breathed heavy with sexual arousal, her whole body jarring with each impact of Steve's hips against her ass.God she was so sexy, and her cunt was doing such a good job of clenching around the invader, her body doing as it was designed to do, trying to bring the penis inside it to orgasm. Her hole wanted his semen. That was its purpose, to get fucked and filled by cum, so she could carry his child.And it was working, her own voice raising with every fourth or fifth quickening thrust as she felt her second orgasm building in her depths, Steve's cock hitting amazing pockets of nerves inside her.It suddenly was upon her as her left hand pressed against the mirror, her right coming around to grab Steve's hip as her cunt exploded in pleasure, her eyes wide. She rocked herself back as he tried to pull out for another thrust, trying to keep him inside her as she came, throwing her head in an out of control nodding motion and half panting, half exclaiming "ahs.”Steve for his part wasn't faring well on holding out. He regularly told Jenny that her orgasms would collect massive amounts of cash on the internet, and they usually brought him off. But Jenny had never been this needy before, and though she did have bouts of increased sexual activity, this was a whole new level.As she came again for the second time, the thrashing of her head, her hair flying and her hand on the mirror, almost got him.It was her hand landing on his right side, hip and ass cheek coupled with her rocking cunt clenching on his shaft that got him. He slammed forward to the hilt as his cum rose from his balls, rocketing down his weapon until it fired into her hot sheathe.Again and again it fired, "Oh yeah! Uh! Uh! Uh! Take it baby!" he said through blurred vision and clenched teeth.Out on the patio, the ladies were squirming; embarrassed, but getting aroused. Claire was frustrated when she had to go comfort a child who tripped and fell in the play area; “Tell me what I'm missing, Kelly.”

Steve You're Live to Tape and Steve Show in-studio. Kirk announces that he's taking a six month break to focus on The Case after Laconia (00:02:00). Justin hears back from Mr. Guptill (00:06:00). Kirk cuts the YouTube feed and debates posting the show exclusively in audio form (00:24:15). Coleman breaks out his Peaky Blinders impression for his latest venture (00:26:20). Andy Hart says Jerod Mayo is best suited to work with other black coaches (00:34:50). Steve You're Live to Tape brought another quote game (00:46:00).You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/kminshow

Blind Mike and Steve You're Live to Tape in-studio. New tweets of Justin asking a porn star to DM him on multiple occasions are uncovered (00:03:30). Justin reads the letter he plans to send to Jenna Rae (00:24:20). The suspect in the killing of UnitedHealthcare's CEO, Luigi Mangione, is taken into custody in Pennsylvania (00:54:50). Taylor Lorenz was joyful on with Piers Morgan discussing the death of the Health Insurance Company's CEO (00:56:35). If Sister Jean passes away in the next 24 hours, Mut's ban is lifted (00:58:30). Steve You're Live to Tape brought a game (01:09:00). The Simpson's NFL broadcast on Disney+ was strange (01:21:20). Scott Hanson does a creepy TikTok video (01:41:30).You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/kminshow

Steve You're Live to Tape and Charles in-studio. American Sports Story: Aaron Hernandez episode 5 has some of the craziest scenes in TV history (00:03:30). Howard Stern "interviews" Kamala Harris (00:06:00). The Boston Globe has a new Boston Red Sox podcast (00:16:00). Steve You're Live to Tape explains why he dislikes Mick (00:33:00). Gino never texted Justin back after yesterday's show (00:37:00). Dave Portnoy was talking to HR after not seeing Smitty and Rico on the livestream (00:40:10). Bob Costas continues to be the worst announcer in sports history (00:42:50). Dale Arnold tweets about Tropicana Field (00:46:30). Robert Kraft gets other sports commissioners to join his Campaign Against Hate (00:50:45). Justin details his mom's scarf making venture (00:55:00). Steve You're Live to Tape brought two games. Charles details his family trauma (00:58:30) + more.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/kminshow

In this episode of Building Texas Business, I sit down with serial entrepreneur Steve Reynolds for his perspectives on innovation in corporate travel tech. As CSO of Embers Inc., Steve shares his journey developing TripBam, an early pioneer utilizing algorithms and robotics to optimize hotel rates. He explains TripBam's strategic transformation from consumer to enterprise software, strengthening the company and positioning it for seamless integration under Embers. Steve offers valuable lessons on championing passion within high-performing teams. The importance of actively engaging customers and development staff to creativity solve problems is emphasized. We discuss the challenges of maintaining innovation at scale versus smaller startups. Steve's experiences navigating acquisitions and a turbulent industry offer cautionary advice. A theme emerges—embracing flexibility positions leaders to overcome challenges and achieve lasting impact. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS In this episode, I spoke with Steve Reynolds, Chief Strategy Officer at Emburse Inc., about his journey in corporate travel technology and entrepreneurship. Steve discussed the origins and evolution of TripBam, a platform he founded that uses algorithms and robotics for hotel rate monitoring, which eventually pivoted from a consumer-focused to a B2B model. Steve shared insights on navigating the challenges posed by the COVID-19 pandemic, emphasizing the strategic decisions that helped TripBam emerge stronger, including cost optimizations and product enhancements. We explored the importance of fostering a passionate and innovative team, highlighting the value of listening to customers and involving development teams directly in problem-solving. Steve explained the critical difference between passionate programmers and those who are merely formally trained, and how assembling a team that shares the company's vision and offering equity can drive success. The episode delved into strategies for managing company growth and financial stability, such as quick decision-making in right-sizing staff and optimizing operational costs through cloud environments. We discussed the benefits of subscription-based pricing models over transaction-based ones, particularly during economic downturns, and how this approach helped maintain cash flow during the pandemic. Steve reflected on the evolution of workplace environments and leadership styles, noting the shift from rigid, traditional settings to more flexible, results-oriented cultures. We talked about the challenges of maintaining innovation in large companies, contrasting startup environments with big company mindsets, and the importance of hiring the right people for each setting. Finally, Steve shared his thoughts on the future of the travel industry and the innovative approaches that have set new standards in modern practices. LINKSShow Notes Previous Episodes About BoyarMiller About Emburse GUESTS Steve ReynoldsAbout Steve TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Chris: In this episode you will meet Steve Reynolds, chief Strategy Officer for Emburse Inc. Steve has built his career in corporate travel technology and in starting various companies over the four-decade career. Steve looks for opportunities to be disruptive. Steve, thanks for coming on the podcast. It's a pleasure to meet you and appreciate you taking the time. Steve: You bet Chris Glad to be here. Chris: So you know there's a lot that I'd love to get into with you. I know that you know currently you're with a company called M-Burst Travel, but that you started a company before that called TripBam. Tell us a little bit about, I guess, those companies and what they do. What is the business they're known for? Steve: Okay, and just to back up a little bit further, I guess what you could call a serial entrepreneur. Tripbam was my third or fourth venture kind of lost count, but I've been in the corporate travel tech space for 40 some odd years. And TripBam when we started 10 years ago, we recognized that hotel rates change a lot more often than people actually realize. If you were to create some robotics that went out and grabbed the rate at a particular hotel for a certain date in the future, you'd see that rate changes just about every hour and what we found is if you just keep watching it, eventually it's going to drop, especially as you get closer to check-in. So we created some algorithms, robotics, whatever you want to call it that said okay, I've got a rate of $2.99 at the Grand Hyatt in New York. I'm arriving on the first and departing on the third. I want you to just let me know when it drops and if it does, I want you to rebook it for me If everything is the same room, same bed, same cancel policy, blah, blah, blah. So that's what we did. We originally invented it for the consumer market. We put out a website and we got mentions in the Wall Street Journal and USA Today and so on. But sort of my corporate travel buddies called up and said, hey, Steve, we really need you to apply this to corporate travel. And they started writing some pretty significant checks. We followed the money, we pivoted and went all B2B at that point. And so the company grew 40% year over year for the first six years, cashflow positive within just a couple of months. I mean it was great. It was great. And then COVID came along and kind of took our knees out from under us for a bit. Chris: COVID kind of wiped out the fundamental business model for at least a little bit. Steve: At least for a little bit. But fortunately a lot of our customers were paying us subscription fees rather than transaction fees, so we were to stay afloat. We got through COVID and we actually came out on the backside of COVID in a much stronger position, both financially and you name it, because we were able to do a lot of just cost improvements, right-sizing the organization. We kind of got a little bit ahead of our skis, I think, in some areas and created some new products, just all kinds of things, pushed everything out to the cloud and such that dramatically reduced our costs and just were firing all cylinders. Chris: And then we worked out a deal with Emburse in July last year to buy the company. Okay, how does I guess what TripBand does fit within the Emburse excuse me, overall, maybe suite of products or company strategy. Steve: Yeah. So Emburse provides travel and expense to the largest of companies, to the smallest of companies, and what I mean by that? Everybody. When you go, you have kind of a booking tool to start with. Most folks are familiar with Concur. We have our own. The reservation gets created. It then needs to be watched, monitored, audited, improved upon. That's kind of where we fit in. So before the money is spent we actually see if we can actually do better than what the traveler did on their own. Travelers are not going to check the hotel rate every day. They're not going to check their airfare every hour. They're not potentially going to book the preferred property within a particular city. We fix all that before the money's actually spent. We then push all that to mobile. So you've got a companion app in your pocket where the traveler gets a ton of destination content specific to that company. So I'm going to New York, I'm staying at headquarters, what hotel should I stay in? I need to go take a client to dinner, what restaurants do you recommend? All kinds of other stuff, including safety and security perspective and so on. Then the data is all captured and fed into an expense report so that your expense report if the traveler is compliant. It's kind of pre-created and pre-approved, so the traveler in a lot of cases doesn't have to do anything and if they're compliant all the way throughout, they could actually kind of be paid as soon as their plane hits the ground. Then it all feeds into reporting and analytics so that we can improve your travel program, identify additional savings opportunities, find some fraud issues, detect all kinds of other stuff that might be a problem. We also offer a card product if you don't have one, and that's kind of the travel plus expense ecosystem that we provide. Chris: That's fascinating. I obviously wasn't aware that something like that existed, but I can see how large companies with a lot of employees traveling could see the benefit and realize a lot of savings from those services. Steve: Yeah, when you combine travel with expense, some kind of magic happens in that we have enough data and insight to be able to start pre-filling out that expense report. Otherwise, all we're counting on is card transactions and receipts, and that's really not going to do the trick. But if we can get that card information augmented with the receipt scanning and everything else that we do now, we can really do a nice job of pre-filling out that expense report. So really all you have to do is add mileage, hit, click and you're submitted. Chris: So you mentioned that you've been in this industry for 40 plus years. I'm curious how did you first get started in the corporate travel tech space 40 years ago? Steve: It was just by happenstance, I guess you could say. I was originally started as a programmer for Texas Instruments, got accepted into their executive program, which meant I could go off and get an MBA and then come back to TI, but quickly realized that the consulting firms were paying a lot more. So I ended up with Ernst Winnie, at the time with Ernst Young and my first assignment was with a travel agency in Houston, Texas, called LifeGo Travel, which doesn't exist anymore. The owner of that company hired us to come in and build some technology. It really put him on the map and he got tired of paying the bills and seeing the hourly checks that we were charging. And so he approached and said, hey, you know, do you want to come work for us? And I'm like, well, that never thought about working for a travel agency. That doesn't sound all that exciting. But he said look what if we created a company, We'll spin it off and we'll give you some equity. And I'm like, okay, now you're talking. So we left, we started up a company called Competitive Technologies and all of it was bought by American Express Travel two years later. Chris: Oh, wow. So unquestionably you had a little bit of an entrepreneurial spirit going way back then to see an opportunity. Put you in it. Steve: And a lot of it is just kind of, I guess, my personal. I don't do well at big companies. I really struggle because I get so frustrated at just the lack of progress or the lack of innovation or the speed at which things happen, so I tend to sort of find an excuse to hit the exit button, usually within a year or two. Chris: Right. So you said something in that response that I want to talk to you about, and that's innovation. I think that's there's such a common theme, I think, with entrepreneurs about. You know, and innovation can mean so many things. What do you think that you've done, as you've built several companies, as you mentioned, to create or foster and nurture a spirit and environment of innovation? Steve: You know a lot of it is just becoming a really good listener to the buyer, to whoever the customer is. And then when they say things, there are certain kernels that are aspects of what they say that you just go oh, wait a minute, okay, can we go back to that? That sounds important. You know this level of frustration. Why does that frustrate you? And if you have engineering and development in the room when those things are said, oftentimes some real magic starts to happen and we just the creativity, the innovation just comes out naturally as wow, we can solve that problem. That's not that hard, you know, let's go do that. So that's on the B2B side. That's kind of the formula, that conversation. Something falls out as far as a new feature, product, something like that, that we can start working on the B2C side. Chris: Go ahead. Well, it sounds like there's a function there of asking the right questions and really listening. Steve: Well, and just most big companies or companies they try to protect the dev engineering. They're like oh, we're not going to let you talk to customers. You guys sit over here in the back room and we'll come to you with sort of a priority or roadmap of what we think is needed. And I feel like that's just the wrong way to do it. You've got to get the dev and the engineers and the programmers in the room to hear the story, otherwise you get this telephone tag of what actually gets built isn't quite what the customer wants or was even asking for. And for most companies that's really hard. I don't know why, but they just. It's like we can't allow that to happen, but that's just not the way I operate. Chris: Well, I mean, it makes sense that people you're asking to solve the problem probably need to hear what the problem is firsthand, right? Steve: Exactly. And then it's oftentimes the dev guys are like they're coming up with much more creative solutions. If you just hand them a requirement sheet or spec sheet, they're like, oh okay, this is going to take a month. But when they're involved with the client and they actually hear what the true problem is, oftentimes they're like, oh, I can knock this out overnight, I'll have a solution to you by tomorrow. It's just a night and day sort of sense of urgency or sort of the emotion around creating the solution. They're bought in. At that point, when they hear it directly from the client, they can be the hero. Chris: Well, when you think about kind of that and getting the right developers and the right kind of team together, what have you found to be successful as far as what to look for in building the right team and then keeping the team together? Steve: Yeah. So fortunately for me I mean through all of these different companies that I've started I've been able to kind of get the band back together multiple times. A because I, you know, I'm a big believer in sharing the equity. You know, let's get everybody, if not equity, at least options, so that when there is an exit, everybody benefits, and they've all seen that so far today, knock on wood, I haven't had an unsuccessful exit where we've had to, you know, turn out the lights or whatever. My shareholders have all made money, you know, typically around 5x to 10x on their investment, which has been great. So it's easy to get the bad back together. But what I also have found out is there are certain programmers that are passionate about programming and others that are just taught programming, and there's a night and day difference on the result. If they're passionate about it, the results come out quick. I get creative solutions that nobody would think of. They're usually extremely low cost and it's just so much better than if I have someone that's college taught. I'm doing this because it's a paycheck and I took this degree because that's what somebody told me to and I was good enough to get a B in college on all my programming courses, but at the end of the day, if their heart's not in it and they're spending their time, you know, just on the side weekends and nights learning new stuff, they're not going to be very good. So give me one or two of those that are passionate and I'll put them against 10 to 20 of those that are school taught and will kick their ass every time. Chris: So yeah, well again, I think that transcends all industries and disciplines, the key being passion. Right, I think you, as the leader, are the one that has to start with the passion and then find people that share that passion to get to where you're talking about, where there's that flow within the organization. Steve: Yeah, I think development's a little bit different. I mean, you're not going to find anybody super excited about accounting or I don't know the other aspects of it, but with development there's guys that just get so into it. You know they're programming on the side. They get into hackathons, they want to prove that you know they're smarter than the guy next to them and just constantly looking for the next challenge and just coming up with those creative solutions. I don't know of any other discipline that really has that level of it, but there might be. I mean, I could be wrong. Chris: So, just going back and maybe not the first venture where you and the travel agency in Houston started, but maybe I'm just curious to know as you began some of these startups, maybe sharing some of the lessons learned through some of the challenges you found in starting that venture, whether it be raising capital as an example, or any other challenges that may come about, but I think that capital raise can be one in the startup that some entrepreneurs find daunting and maybe can't solve and never get anything off the ground. Steve: Yeah Well, I think, first off, just wait as long as possible to raise capital. You know most of them kind of build an MVP which just kind of barely works and then go out and try to raise money on it. And whenever you go down that path you just end up way undervaluing what you have. And I know people get in certain situations where they just need to have a check, you know, or it's you know, lights out. But if you can wait until you actually have a client actually generating revenue, actually having positive cash flow, whatever, and then you can show someone, look, we just need to add fuel to the fire here. This is not about keeping the lights on, this is about generating growth You're going to have a dramatically better outcome. The other thing I found out is when you take the big check too early, you start making really stupid decisions. You start hiring attorneys that are expensive, you hire a CFO before you need it, you have a head of HR, all kinds of stuff and overhead that's just not necessary and over time it makes you less and less nimble because you're so worried about payroll, you know, and less focused on just delivering a product that has a you know, a bunch of value. Keep your day job, keep working nights and weekends, wait as long as possible. I mean, I always said, look, cash is like oxygen. If you run out you're going to die. So hang on to it with both hands first. I mean beg, borrow and steal from friends and family and whatever to just get stuff. If you need a contract, go out on the web and search for a capolar plate contract. It'll be good enough to get you started. Or find someone that's a buddy, that's a lawyer, that's willing to do some pro bono work in return, maybe for a little bit of equity stuff like that. Just hang on to that cash as much as you can, for as long as you can. Chris: Well, I think there's a lot there that someone can learn from. Obviously, speaking as a chairman of a law firm, I can't endorse legal Zoom for the startup, but I understand your point. We talk to clients a lot about especially know, especially in the startup phase. Maybe you know helping them get going, but you know and being smart about how they spend their money. But make it an investment in getting at least a sound structure and they may not need right the full-blown set of legal documents, but I can promise you I've seen people start on legal Zoom and wish they hadn't, you know, a couple of years later when things were getting a little tight. But I understand your point there. But conserving cash is important to get off the ground. Steve: Yeah, I mean you don't need to come right out of the gate being in an Inc. You know and incorporated in Delaware and pay all the fees, whatever to make that happen. I mean, just start out as a low-cost LLC and then, when you're ready to sort of raise capital and become a real company, you know you use part of that capital to convert at that time. Chris: So you had mentioned earlier, you know just, I guess, going back to kind of trip BAM COVID having, at least initially, a pretty profound impact but then turning it into a positive, and I'm kind of want to take you back to that time and you maybe dig in a little bit deeper. I think it's a beautiful lesson of something where you know a lot of people just throwing up their hands because travel stopped, et cetera, which decimates your business specifically to you. But then you said we actually learned from that and became a better, stronger company because of it. And you've mentioned right-sizing, the organization stuff. But could you share a little more detail and some stories from that our listeners can learn from if and when their business faces something similar? Steve: Yeah, I think, first off, being fairly quick. You know you can always hire people back, you know. But if you keep them on the payroll and you start burning up cash just way too fast or you're starting to trend towards in the red, you just got to pull the trigger. Nobody wants to, nobody likes to do it, but it's really nobody's fault. It's just something as an executive or CEO you have to do, or a founder. So that's one. Second is, as companies grow, you kind of make stupid mistakes along the way. You get kind of inefficient. You don't anticipate the level of growth that might have been reality. So going back and saying, all right, take a step back, let's catch our breath. You know, what should we have done to kind of handle the scale better? And so, for example, just moving everything to a cloud environment, you know, putting it out to bid, switching from one cloud provider to another, whatever it is, you know you can just generate or reduce your costs dramatically. You know, rather quickly, if you just focus the time on it. Everybody gets so white hot, focused on growth and the next client and the revenue they forget to look at the rear view mirror about. You know there was a lot of costs we could have taken out, you know, which could generate even more cash going forward. Advert: Hello friends. This is Chris Hanslick, your Building Texas business host. Did you know that Boyer Miller, the producer of this podcast, is a business law firm that works with entrepreneurs, corporations, and business leaders. Our team of attorneys serve as strategic partners to businesses by providing legal guidance to organizations of all sizes. Get to know the firm at BoyerMiller. com and thanks for listening to the show. So we pulled the trigger pretty quick. We right-sized the staff. We had a pretty good and, fortunately for us, this is the other. We kind of lucked into this. Our customers, for whatever reason, decided they wanted to pay a subscription fee rather than maybe a percentage of the savings or a transaction fee, to where what they were going to spend would fluctuate month over month. By paying a subscription fee, they could budget it and they were going to get a better return on investment. So we did most of our deals that way and thank God we did, because when COVID and everything went into toilet in April of 2020, we still had cash coming in the door. So we were actually stayed cashflow positive because we kind of right-sized the staff fairly quickly. And then, coming out of COVID, as the revenue started to ramp back up and our sales started to continue, we were just on a much better platform that would scale after it because it was just all right-sized and efficient and whatever, and at the same time we added new products. So we had a two-year kind of all right, just keep the lights on, market will come back around. We added an air reshopping solution. We added a bunch of analytics to audit contracts and to benchmark performance, so that we had a whole bunch more to sell coming out of COVID than going in, and so that caused another year of kind of explosive growth as a result. Chris: That's great. So, yeah, obviously part of that is give some deep thought to how you price what your product right. So that subscription-based versus transaction for you sounds like a very. Maybe it didn't seem as meaningful at the time you made it, but it turned out to be. Steve: You know that's a tough one If the ROI of your product is pretty clear, like reshopping. If you've got a rate of $2.99, I drop it to $ to $250. I've got $49 per night in savings If you pay me a couple of bucks. Okay, here's the ROI. And we could run some pilots and all kinds of stuff to prove that out. So that makes it really simple and we try to hit look, I need a ROI that when they take it to their boss the guy that's doing the budgets, you know, won't cause all kinds of frustration and concern. So four to one is usually the minimum. A lot of our customers, the larger ones, are getting eight to one, 10 to one, you know. So you could say like you've probably underpriced it. But that's okay, you know we'll claw back some of that. You know, over time when it's a product that's the ROI is a bit fuzzier. You just got to somehow convince the client that this is the potential savings. They're going to guesstimate and then from there work backwards to a price which kind of gets you back to that four to one ROI. So if I think I'm going to save you five bucks a transaction, I'm probably going to charge you a dollar to $1.50 is what I'm going to aim for. Again, to get to that four to one kind of savings estimate for Relagate. Again to get to that four to one kind of savings estimate. Chris: So part of that goes, I think, in building that customer base, really focusing on strong relationships. Talk a little bit about that and what you've done, because it sounds like over the course of the various businesses, you've done a good job of creating some very good partnerships and alliances. What are some of the things you think that have helped you foster that and keep those for so many years? Steve: I think one is you know you got to under promise and over deliver. So if they're going to sign up, you know, don't make them look bad or stupid to their boss. The other one is identifying the influencers in the market. So I'm sure every industry has some individuals that are kind of on the bleeding edge, willing to try new things. And if they do and it works, they've got the microphone or the megaphone to tell a whole bunch of others. So fortunately for me, I've been able to identify who those influencers are. I've got a reputation for just delivering as promised. So when they sign up they have confidence and then they tell their peers and a lot of our sales in the large enterprise market are peer-to-peer networking. It's not from email campaigns or other stuff that we do. Chris: The kind of part of that, the old adage of just do what you say you committed to do when you said you committed to do it right. Steve: It's just delivering as promised. Don't sell me a can of goods and all this great wonderful thing. And then when the reality is just not there, you know, don't make them look stupid. You know that's the key one. I mean, these are after 40 years they become. We have some pretty tight relationships with these folks and I want them to keep their job and we want them all promoted and moving on to the next big role, because when that happens they just take us with them and we just keep getting bigger and bigger. Chris: So you mentioned that about kind of keeping this, your words, the band back together. You've been able to do that, hiring some of the right people and incentivizing the right way. Any insights into. You know what people could think about when they're looking at their team one, trying to, I guess, evaluate whether they have the right people and then finding the right ways to incentivize them to kind of keep that core group together. Steve: To me it's if they feel like they're a part of a team and they understand the value they're providing to the customer and they see that customer's appreciation. You know they're in the conversation with the client, you know, and that's easy to do at a small company, because who else are they going to talk to? Right, you got to bring the dev and engineering. But when you start layering and bifurcating and have people you know in engineering back there in the back room, kind of stuff that don't talk to clients, that's when it gets a lot harder. But when you get them into the conversation and that sense of this is my company, this is my reputation. I'm a part of something here, you know, that's growing and doing well and whatever. It's not that hard, it's really not that difficult at all. It's just everybody wants to be appreciated and feel like they're, you know, part of a team. So that's the formula, right, I mean I could throw money at them. But I ask my employees I mean I am not the guy that's writing big checks to hire people right? I'm like look, we're going to pay a reasonable salary. You know this is not, you're not going to be broke, but you know we're in it for the long term game, and so we want to keep the cash in the company so that we don't have to go do another capital raise which is going to dilute all of us, and so your equity just keeps getting smaller, you know, over time, and the guys that actually make the money, or the investors this needs to be a collaborative team effort so they get that. Chris: I think that transparent communications is key right. So they again they understand their role on the team, they understand what the goal of the organization is and how they can help further that. Steve: You know it's always been kind of fire slow, fire quick as well. You know the people, everybody makes hiring mistakes. It happens all the time. And you know when you hire someone within like a couple of days you're like this is not feeling right. You know, don't let it just sit, don't let it be two years later when you actually kind of work them out. You have to kind of pull the trigger fairly quick because it messes up the whole culture of the company. Oftentimes, especially at a small company, it can create some real problems. Chris: Yeah, I mean that may be the most sage advice and, I think, maybe the most consistent that I hear from entrepreneurs and business owners. It's been my own experience too, that that kind of fire, you know, don't be slow to fire when you know you made a mistake and it's the hardest, maybe one of the hardest ones to do because you're dealing with people. I spoke to someone yesterday and they were like hired, someone had some uncertainty and literally what I learned was to trust my gut because on day one that they started in a conversation went oh my God, this is a huge mistake. Tried to play it out, tried to make it work and guess what? It didn't. Steve: Yeah, the thing is I don't believe resumes anymore and I don't believe LinkedIn pages at all, especially when it comes to higher dev and engineering. It's just anybody can put whatever language they want and say they've got a ton of experience. You've got to figure out a way to validate Most of our hires. There's kind of referrals and peer-to-peer sort of networking. If I find someone, I can usually find someone they know, especially in the Dallas market where we are, that's worked with them at a prior company. That sort of thing and do some back-channel checking is what really pays off for us. And we know the rock stars. We know the rock stars. We know the rock stars, but they're not that hard to kind of pick out. It's the ones that are kind of questionable. That you know. You just got to do your homework and don't count on the resume. Chris: That's a really good point. It's a hard thing to do, though, and it may be easier in programmers. But, to you know, I totally agree with resumes, and profiles can be, you know, massaged, but it's sifting through and kind of through the smoke to really get to what's behind the curtain. Steve: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean. And Zoom calls, I mean people hire on Zoom calls or whatever. Like dude, you got to get them in the office face to face, go to lunch, have a couple of face to face interactions before you actually bring this person on board. You know, make them pass a coding test or something. You know something tangible. Don't just look, they're very nice people. You know they all have a. You know look great on a phone call or Zoom call, whatever, but that doesn't cut it. Chris: Yeah, I mean no substitute for personal interaction and seeing how people show up. Right. Steve: Yeah, the other thing is, since we're, you know, on a startup mode where everybody's looking at kind of the potential for equity, I'm like, look, if you're as great as you are, why don't you come on board for a month on a contract basis? Let's see how it works out, you know, and we'll go from there All right, and you really get a feel for someone and how well they're going to. We try it, we like to try it, before we buy. Let's put it that way. That's one way to do it. Chris: just talk about you know specific kind of leadership styles and and how you would describe your leadership style, and maybe how you would describe it today versus maybe 20 years ago as you you were emerging as a leader, and how you think it's changed oh, my god, it's night and day. Steve: so first company way back when. Maybe it comes as a surprise or not, but it was a coat and tie environment. Okay, guys, we've got to put on the ties and whatever. That was just so stupid. Checking office hours and all that crap and tracking vacation time just seems so silly. Now, if you can get the job done, I don't care what you wear, I don't care what you look like, I don't care what you wear, I don't care what you look like, I don't care where you do the work, I don't care if you have to take vacation on a pretty regular basis for whatever reason. I don't care if you're going off and disappearing to watch your kid play soccer, I do not care anymore. Just here's the job. Here's kind of an expectation. You know, as long as I understand, you're trying hard to get it done as quick as possible. We are good. You know, it's kind of a thing. So all that other stuff was just noise. That was just stupid, anyway it's. I mean back when I started in this, I mean programming and development and all that and the whole tech world was fairly new, so nobody knew what they were doing or how to manage these folks and it evolved over time, but fairly quickly. I mean, by company two, ties were gone. By company three, office was gone. I mean I've been virtual for 25 years. Unfortunately, we had offices but we just I think they were a waste of money but we did it for optics more than anything. Chris: Yeah, so it sounds like more kind of a traditional and somewhat of a command and control, starting out to now a little more, much more flexible and providing autonomy as long as people deliver on the expectations that they're communicated with. Steve: Which comes down to you just hire the right people, right, if you can get kind of get that sense for what the kind of folks that are going to do well. So, for example, if I see, if you can get kind of get that sense for what are the kind of folks that are going to do well. So, for example, if I see that you've got you spent 20 years at a really big company, you are not going to do well at a startup. I could guarantee you You're used to other people doing work for you. You know you're just kind of the sit back in your office and sort of you know, tell folks what to do. That ain't going to happen. You need to get your hands dirty. You might have to write code. You got to do PowerPoints, you got to do Word docs all that stuff yourself. Big company folks just tend to lose that ability, let's say, or it's beneath them and that's not going to work. Chris: Yeah, I mean it's almost. Yeah, that's not in my role. Mentality versus everything is in everyone's role. Mentality, right, it's almost. Yeah, that's not in my role. Mentality versus everything is in everyone's role. Mentality right, it's about getting a job done, no matter what it takes. Steve: And I think that drives me crazy at a big company because, you know, unfortunately for others, I tend to poke my nose into others' lanes and I get told a lot Steve, stay in your lane. Nothing bugs me more, you know, than to hear that. But that's the big company way. Chris: So you've gone through a few companies and you're now, I guess, inside of a larger company. Now Are you finding it easy to kind of have that mentality of flexible leadership and innovative environment? Steve: In the new company? Yes, I would have to say no, it's kind of as I expected. You know, with other acquisitions you start. You know, this kind of here's how it happens. However, embers, I believe, is trying hard to carve out a role where I can exist, let's put it that way. So my title right now is Chief Strategy Officer, and it's a bit nebulous, kind of by design. I can sort of make it what I want and as a result of being chief strategy officer, I can get outside of my lane and people can question it. I'm like everybody needs strategy. That's my title, I'm going to get in your lane, kind of stuff you know. So I tend to kind of bounce around to lots of different projects, objectives so on. I kind of help make sure that it's cohesive, you know, across this travel and expense story, you know. But at the same time I don't have a lot of direct reports, which is great. That usually doesn't go too well either. So so far, so good. Chris: Fingers crossed, that's great, yeah, we we kind of covered kind of the challenges of COVID If you think back prior to that, any other challenges along the way with the first two or three companies, everybody, yeah, yeah, I think people some of those are the best lessons we learned or some of the challenges we go through. I'm just curious to know any kind of lessons from a challenge that you could share with the listeners that might help them when they face something similar. Steve: Oh my God. I mean everybody's made mistakes and if they got lucky along the way and if they don't admit that they're lying, I mean some of the bigger ones. 9-11, we had a solution that was processing about 80% of all corporate travel reservations made in the US. 9-11 hit and we went to zero within about 24 hours, so that was kind of a gut check. Fortunately, travel bounced back fairly quickly, but it made us take a step back and realize how nimble we were If something like that were going to happen again. So that's one, and you know, and there's all the kind of day-to-day stuff. I mean there's fraud, there's employee HR issues that happen. You know there's. I'm not going to get into details on that, but you know you just kind of all right, let's deal with this. You know, don't just look the other way and take care of it. I think the latest I mean the big one right now is just, you know, the whole third party hacking and getting into your network and holding you hostage, stuff like that. You know that's made everybody just super anxious and nervous and to the point where companies are kind of shutting down their network so much that individuals can't do the job. You know, which is causing concern and it's what else are you going to do? I mean, if some employee can click on a link and bring down your network, do? Chris: you just turn off email. You're right, it's creating such a challenge. Everybody, all companies, are being attacked every day from all kinds of angles, and it just takes one and but you also? You can't operate out of fear and you can't let it stop you from doing your business. Steve: Well, they say there's two kinds of companies out there. There's those that have been hacked and those that don't know they've been hacked. So just kind of keep that in mind and I think it's fairly true. I think, you know, it's just almost too easy to get into someone's network and poke around and kind of see what's going on these days. Chris: It's so scary, but I thought you were going to say those who have been hacked and those that will be hacked, but I guess already have you, just don't know it. Well, see, I really loved hearing your story. It's a fascinating industry, and one that you don't really hear much about, but you definitely. It sounds like for 40 years you've been crushing it at it, so congratulations to that. Well, thanks for that. Steve: But also the one thing people don't know about corporate travel is that it sits on a backbone of legacy technology that's probably 40 years old. That has not changed. The GDSs are antiquated, the travel agency systems are antiquated. It's not that hard to come up with something innovative and new in this environment. So I just got lucky to where I got into it and I'm like this thing is so bad. I mean anything you do is going to be innovative. And so we just started coming up with new stuff solving clients' problems and it just kept evolving from there. Like this thing is so bad. I mean anything you do is going to be innovative. And so we just started coming up with new stuff solving clients' problems, and it just kept evolving from there. Chris: Yeah, that's really. You know so many entrepreneurs I've talked to. It's what you just said solving the customer or client's problem. Because what I said earlier, it goes back to asking the questions and listening and then trying to solve that problem. Steve: So many great ideas that come from that across so many industries. Yeah, and just to set up a little process to where you talk with your customers on a regular basis or a group of clients or people you trust and it just happens naturally, it's really not that difficult. Chris: Well, let's turn to a little bit on the lighter side before we wrap this up. I always like to ask people like yourself what was your first job? Steve: oh, my first job, let's see. Uh, I worked at a pet store at junior high. Well, actually first job was mowing yards, right? So everybody every kid did that just to get my allowance money. Then I worked at a pet store in junior high for a short period but fairly quickly realized waiting tables made a lot more money. So I told a guy I was 18, when actually I was 16, and they never really checked. They hired me as a waiter. I was actually kind of a part-time bartender, so I was serving liquor in Houston the strawberry patch I'll probably get them in trouble back when I was 16 years old and just made a ton of money as a, you know, a high schooler. So that was kind of the first. And then, you know, got into computers and writing code at a very early age. I was part of a program at Shell where they gave us mainframe time to go in and kind of play around and then went off to Baylor for computer science and then went to TI and then went to A&M for grad school. Very good, very good. Chris: So okay. So, being a native Texan, do you prefer Tex-Mex or barbecue? Steve: That is not a fair question, because both are pretty dang awesome, but, being in Texas, I think we've got some of the best barbecue on the planet. So Pecan Lodge here in Dallas is, I think, kind of the best, and there's a lot of Tex-Mex, though that's really good as well, yeah, I agree on all points. Chris: I haven't heard of Pecan Lodge before, so I'll have to check that one out. Steve: Yeah, it's in Deep Ellum, so next time you fly in, go in out of Love Field, and it's not too far, it's a 10-minute drive from there. Chris: Deal Noted. And then last thing is you know you've made early in the career, probably never did this and maybe have done since. But if you could take a 30 day sabbatical, where would you go and what would you do? Steve: I actually got a 30 day sabbatical. So a guy hired me or not hired me, but when he brought me on board to run a company he said hey, you know, I threw in there. Just, I read it in a magazine that it was the hot thing for techies to ask for, so I threw it in there and they accepted it. I guess they thought I'd never make it to my five-year anniversary. Anyway, I did and I took the kids and family, went all the way throughout through Europe. So we went to Italy, paris, france, austria, switzerland, whatever you know, just really unplugged for that 30 days. Actually it was a 90 day sabbatical. That's what I took. Wow, so I got a little bit more time. Yeah, it was great, it was great. So if that were to happen today, I'd probably look to do something similar, but nowadays if I want to take 90 days, I probably could just got to ask for it. Chris: Very good, very good. Well, steve, thanks again for taking the time to come on and love hearing your story and all the innovation you brought to the travel industry. Steve: All right. Well, thanks for having me, chris, I really enjoyed it. Good conversation. Chris: Thanks, well, we'll talk soon. Steve: Okay, you bet. Special Guest: Steve Reynolds.

Join Steve Ramona as he demystifies networking, focusing on creating meaningful connections that go beyond just swapping business cards. Through personal anecdotes and actionable tips, Steve highlights how everyday encounters and local events can spur professional growth. Learn to value quality over quantity in interactions, embracing open-mindedness and active listening to foster genuine relationships. This episode emphasizes building a network where each connection has the potential to boost your career and income.In this masterclass, we explore how strategic networking can elevate your income, featuring real-life success stories of individuals who've boosted their earnings by leveraging their connections. Discover how combining financial management with community-building can streamline your workload and amplify your business potential. With Steve's insights, you'll gain the tools and mindset to enhance your networking skills, turning chance meetings into profitable opportunities.NOTABLE QUOTES"When you start an enterprise or project or have a philanthropic opportunity, you've got that network of hundreds or thousands of people that you can reach back to and communicate with because you've built a great relationship." – Steve"One person can lead to hundreds of connections." – Steve"It's always about the quality of the network. Find those people [who] are a fit. It's not everybody." – Steve"When the opportunity door opens, you can walk through it and if it doesn't work, you open the door and walk back out. That's what networking is about." – Steve“You've got to say no." – Steve"Your mindset should be of value to people." – Steve“It's okay to fail.” – Steve“Shut up and listen.” – Steve“I took notes so I can go back and learn about what and how I can help.” – Steve“Think of value as you're listening to the person you're talking to.” – Steve“People love to talk about themselves so the more that you can get them to open up and talk about themselves, we start to like that person a lot more.” – Philip“On that initial connection call, if you can try and make it more them than you are talking, It allows you to get to know them, and learn how to support them, and connect them with the people.” – Philip“No relationship is equal. There are times [when] my wife does so much more for me than I do for her, and [there are] times where I do way more for her than she does for me. And that's okay because that's a marriage, that's a true relationship.” – Philip“Your number one asset is people. You need to build your network with people.” – Steve“Practice serving or bringing value.” – SteveRESOURCESSteveWebsite: https://www.servinginbusinesspodcast.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steveramona/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkgN4ZO83lPjCJtuv0LeOJw PhilipDigital Course: https://www.speakingsessions.com/digital-courseInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamphilipsessions/?hl=enTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@philipsessionsLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philip-sessions-b2986563/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/therealphilipsessions Support the Show.

Full show - Tuesday | Mascot mayhem | White Bronco | Don't brush your teeth around Steve | You had one job | Slacker defends puzzles | Let them taste test cake | Steve's ding dong @slackerandsteve @thackiswack @radioerin

Wives get to thinking about how life is too short.Based on the works of CoyoteHoward. Listen to the Podcast at Steamy Stories.Jenny & The Barbeque GatheringIt was the picture of Americana in southwest Idaho.A partly cloudy sky, with more sun than shade. Deep green grass. Horses munching away in the pasture while the kids, whose ages ranged from 2-16, played on the trampoline and playset.The husbands primarily were under the porch overhang, gathered around the grill, while Osvaldo and his 8 year old son Elliot jokingly played corn-hole in the grass.Their wives were on the furniture on the other end of the porch, doing as women do, keeping an eye on the children for the most part and enjoying their own trials and tribulations. Most of which focused on family dramas, future plans and prices for various groceries.“Yeah, so what I’d like to do,” Brady said, beginning to flip the burgers from the top left, “is kinda what you did, but I’d like to do 4 rails instead.”Steve nodded and took a drink of beer from his Payette Brewing Co. bottle. He absentmindedly watched Brady do so, his left thumb tucked into the front pocket of his jeans, shifting his cowboy booted feet to equal distribution instead of one leg being cocked slightly. His slight belly showed his 36 years of age, and while he didn’t like it, and wished he could find the consistent motivation to work out, his wife didn’t mind, and his shirts still fit, including the plain white t-shirt he wore now.“Yeah I don’t mind the three, but the three inch- I wish I’d of been able to afford the three and a half,” Steve said, shifting the bottle to his left and adjusting his multicam hat on his head, though it needn’t be done. His brown, fade cut hair wasn’t bothering him, it was more just a habit.“You did your fence yourself?” Jeff asked. He was blond, worked out tons and was wearing a polo, cargo shorts and flip flops.Steve nodded, “Yeah the little mustang got out suddenly last year, little shit.”The women meanwhile were discussing flowers.“I’m so jealous of your little play area Jenny,” Hannah said, taking a sip of her soda.She was married to Brady, and three of the tikes running around were hers. She was 36, was 5'7" and 133 pounds. She knew she was attractive, as all the women here were, but her husband appreciated her the most, and that’s exactly the way she prefered it.They’d been married for well over 10 years, he was the father of all her babies, and they led a great life.“Well it’s been a lot of work, but yeah, it’s coming together,” Jenny said. “We’ve done a ton of work just to try and keep the weeds away.” Her husband was Steve, and as she finished her sentence she looked over at her man.They’d been together the longest of the group of six couples, having been dating since junior year of high school, over 18 years prior. They had the second oldest child there, at 15, and the second youngest as well, a three year old girl.They’d been the ones to leave though, he going into the Army right after high school and finally leaving six years prior, and they’d all reconnected.Steve was still her king though, and she his queen, as they routinely told each other. Even now, as Heather, a half-asian, half-hispanic woman asked her about the newest berry they’d planted Jenny couldn’t help but think about what her king had done to her last night, and her panties got warm under her flowery, blue, spaghetti-strapped sundress.Steve noticed her looking at him, and flashed her a smile, giving his queen a fun wink.And that’s why she couldn’t help but love him. He just did those little kinds of things that other men didn’t with their wives. Sure he had a temper, he played video games, his memory was horrible.But his positives more than made up for it.“I’d like to plant blackberries, especially if they have uh, no thorns,” Amanda winked, and took a bite of potato salad. She was a short, slightly heavy black haired woman married to Osvaldo.She looked over and saw her son and husband playing cornhole still, though Jeff and Joe had gone over to play with them. They were married to Heather and Ellen, respectively, to Amanda’s left.“Yeah me too,” Hannah said, to which the others laughed slightly.“Bullshit,” Kelly said, deciphering the code words; “You have too much going on already. Brady would strangle you!”“Oh he’d be a little upset, but he always cools off,” Hannah said, chuckling.But Jenny couldn’t get the thought out of her mind now. The thought of how Steve had taken extra care to put the baby to bed, to not play Mass Effect, and to take her to bed.He’d sweetly pulled her jeans off, then nuzzled and licked at her cunt through her panties until she’d cum, THEN he had proceeded to have his way with her, bringing her off several more times before finishing off inside her.She imagined she could still feel his cum, making her wetter still.She suddenly looked at the whole situation. At everyone around her and the thought of them getting old, tired, and ending…“Hannah, watch Claire for me. I’m gonna go get fucked silly in your powder room,” she said, locking eyes with her friend and rising with a slight smirk.Hannah’s eyes went wide as she choked slightly and let out a huge smile.“What?!” she exclaimed, but Jenny was already striding across the patio to her man.“Did she just-”“What did she say?”“Whoa!”“Hahaha! Oh shit she’s really doing it!”Jenny had reached Steve, grabbed him by the belt buckle with one hand and had begun leading him away, walking forward as if leading a stud to a mare.“Hey babe, whoa, what’s up?” he asked.She turned and smirked a small smile at him, and she knew it achieved the desired affect. Her intentions must have been written all over her face, because he couldn’t help but put his beer down and follow, his own smile bursting forth.She lead him through the door and didn’t give him time to properly shut it, but he was able to with a strong hand.“Jen, what are you doing?” Steve asked, grabbing her wrist. She was closer to her target though.“I need you,” she said, suddenly breathless as she kissed him deeply, her sexy body pressing up against his.She made sure to press her bra'ed 34C breasts into his chest, her left hand around his back, her right up in his short hair.Steve’s hands went around her pinched waist first, then his left up her side and back while his right went around and down to her plump ass, cupping and kneading.She moaned at the touches, then broke the french kiss and backed away towards the half-bath by the front door.Steve followed eagerly and suddenly they were in the little bathroom, finding the light and locking the door behind them.“Hun, what’s gotten int-ohh shit!” Steve started, but she hushed him by immediately dropping to her knees, and getting his jeans undone.“Damn girl, the fuck has gotten into you suddenly?” he asked, as she got the front of his pants open, not pausing and pulled down his underwear too. But his hands went to her head, lightly rubbing the sides and back encouragingly.“Can’t I just want my husband?” she asked before throating his semi-hard, 6 inch cock in one go.“Ah fuck,” he said, his biology taking over for a moment as he thrust his hips an inch forward, his hands tightening on her head.Her tongue was going crazy on the underside of his shaft, the tip even coming past her bottom lip slightly to lick his balls as much as she could, and he got rigid hard in moments.He gasped and breathed as if he were in pain, but she knew he wasn’t. Jenny didn’t give him head very often, so this must be a real treat for him. Though truth be told, this was a means to an end. She bobbed her face on his crotch for a dozen or so pumps, until she felt his cockhead nudge the back of her throat. That end was now.She rose, looked him in the eye as her right hand grasped his hard prick, some of her hair in her eye as she did so, stroking it in short strokes as she turned to the vanity and mirror.God she looked slutty. One of her spaghetti straps had fallen off her shoulder and her lips were an excited red from having just been stretched in an obscene ‘O’ around his magnificent cock.But she could still FEEL her sex drive though, his taste still in her mouth. Her boobs were hypersensitive in their confines, feeling wonderfully constrained as she breathed, and her panties were probably soaked through.She pulled up the hem of her dress and bent over the counter, looking back at him over her right shoulder.“God, just fuck me. Fuck me!” she said, “I need it.”Steve couldn’t refuse this personification of pure lust in front of him. She wasn’t his wife in this moment. She was a bitch in heat. A mare in season. And he was going to give her the beast she needed.He grabbed her brief-cut panties with both hands and yanked them down with animalistic urgency to her feet, where she stepped out with one sandaled foot.He then rose and put his right hand to her cunt, immediately confirming how wanton she was by the heat and wetness he found there, easily one of the wettest times he’d ever seen her.“Oh fuck,” she said, finding her own lustful gaze looking back at her in the vanity mirror, feeling his fingers run through her sex from her clit(which he brushed ever so slightly) right up to her asshole. She knew he must’ve thought about playing with it, as she’d let him take her ass several times in the past year, finally.But he didn’t linger, instead he stepped right up to her bent over body and slid his steel hard cock into her cunt, all in one go.“Oh! Oh fuck! Oh god that feels soo good!” she practically screamed, but huskily.His hands went to her wide hips, finding her pelvic bones that made the perfect obscene handles, beginning to piston her cunt, slowly.But she wanted more, she wanted to be fucked, and fucked well.She looked over her shoulder at him, “Steve, god damnit, Fuck me!” With each stressed word she pushed herself back on his cock, sparks flying from her sopping cunt through her body as she did so as his rod plowed her depths.Out at the patio, the ladies' conversation suddenly halted when the screams and moans were faintly heard coming from the little vent, high on the side of the house. It piped the narrative from the powder room, just on the other side of the brick exterior. First Claire took notice, then all the ladies went silent, their devilish grins showing their vicarious delight. A couple of the guys noticed the silence over at the other end of the covered patio, then all the guys heard the faint echo of a raging hormonal woman's voice could just barely be heard yelling; “Steve, God damnit. Fuck me!”Jenny was rewarded with her stud pulling her hips back so that she’d fall backwards if he wasn’t there, cock lodged inside her. Her hands were wrapped tightly around the spout of the faucet, now somewhat in front of her as her hair swung with his thrusts. Her tits were swaying as much as her bra would allow, and the pulling on her chest added to her sexual experience. The thumb of her left hand subconsciously rubbed the underside of the chrome spout, but in her entranced state, she imagined it was Steve's turgid cock.In moments he was fucking her hard. Fast. Making her ass jiggle with every impact of his pelvis. She felt his cock running though her with abandon, the heat from her cunt quickly turning into a fire, then a blaze, until stars burst in her vision and she screamed a carnal, drawn out “ah” in orgasm, her legs shaking uncontrollably. “Steve, you beast!” she screamed in satisfaction.Her hands slipped as they clenched and gripped the sink, Steve stepping up as her hips were pushed forward against the edge of the counter.Whereas moments before she’d cum from her assertive pushing back, now she was trapped with nowhere to go. More precisely, her hole couldn’t get away from the prick fucking it.Jenny realized that she’d be forced to cum at least again, maybe more even. Her king had slowed as he’d trapped her, bringing his hands up to her shoulders and finding new grips with which to pound her.She looked up and saw her sweaty self in the mirror again, her jaw dropped open as she breathed heavy with sexual arousal, her whole body jarring with each impact of Steve’s hips against her ass.God she was so sexy, and her cunt was doing such a good job of clenching around the invader, her body doing as it was designed to do, trying to bring the penis inside it to orgasm. Her hole wanted his semen. That was its purpose, to get fucked and filled by cum, so she could carry his child.And it was working, her own voice raising with every fourth or fifth quickening thrust as she felt her second orgasm building in her depths, Steve’s cock hitting amazing pockets of nerves inside her.It suddenly was upon her as her left hand pressed against the mirror, her right coming around to grab Steve’s hip as her cunt exploded in pleasure, her eyes wide. She rocked herself back as he tried to pull out for another thrust, trying to keep him inside her as she came, throwing her head in an out of control nodding motion and half panting, half exclaiming “ahs.”Steve for his part wasn’t faring well on holding out. He regularly told Jenny that her orgasms would collect massive amounts of cash on the internet, and they usually brought him off. But Jenny had never been this needy before, and though she did have bouts of increased sexual activity, this was a whole new level.As she came again for the second time, the thrashing of her head, her hair flying and her hand on the mirror, almost got him.It was her hand landing on his right side, hip and ass cheek coupled with her rocking cunt clenching on his shaft that got him. He slammed forward to the hilt as his cum rose from his balls, rocketing down his weapon until it fired into her hot sheathe.Again and again it fired, "Oh yeah! Uh! Uh! Uh! Take it baby!” he said through blurred vision and clenched teeth.Out on the patio, the ladies were squirming; embarrassed, but getting aroused. Claire was frustrated when she had to go comfort a child who tripped and fell in the play area; “Tell me what I'm missing, Kelly.”In the powder room, Jenny was affirming Steve's virility; “Ram it in me, Deeper!” And though she hadn’t fully finished her orgasm, it had been ending, that is, until she felt her man begin to fill her.“Oh! Oh god! Oh fuck, it’s, so hot! Oh fuck Steve!” she seethed, feeling him pumping his seed into her. Her cunt suddenly went taught and rippled against the tool that had penetrated it, sending Jenny into another fit of orgasm, catching her off guard as her legs finally gave way, coming off the floor and slightly spurring Steve’s calves as all she could experience was the ultimate, womanly pleasure. Through blurred vision she looked at the mirror her face was resting on, her tits as well as her weight was mostly on her hips.Steve smiled as he fired his last shot of cum into his wife, enjoying her multiple orgasm as he rubbed the small of her back right before it went into the crack of her ass, reveling in the clenching of her cunt.“Ha ha, fuck yeah, you’re awesome baby,” he said, taking a deep breath as his heart rate came down.She slowly relaxed until her feet came down to the floor again, finally taking her weight. She came upright, allowing Steve to pull himself free of her depths before turning around and leaning back on the counter.“Umm, holy shit, that felt so good,” she said, smiling.“You’re damn right about that,” Steve said, reaching down to pull up his underwear and jeans. “What got into you?”“Nothing, I just, I was looking at you,” Jenny said, finding her own panties around her right foot and stepping back into them. “And I suddenly thought about how short life is. I wanted to be taken, and I didn’t want to wait.”He chuckled as he finished buckling his belt, “Jesus. Fuck that was good. You drained the shit out of me.”“Mmm, and you fucked the hell out of me. Whew!” she exclaimed, finally seating her panties comfortably and pulling the strap of her dress up onto her shoulder.Steve stepped forward and kissed her, her left hand coming up to his cheek. His groin pressed into hers and a light heat radiated from her cunt again.“Um, stop it!” she smiled at him, pushing him away, “Argh, you do that anymore and I’ll need you to fuck me again.”He unlocked the door and they stepped out, a couple heads on the porch turning their way, followed by the rest.When they came out onto the porch, hand in hand, everyone clapped as if they’d put on a performance, then laughed openly at their friends, with some light cheering from both the girls and the guys, to which they both blushed But laughed as well.Steve brought Jenny back to her bench next to Hannah and sat her down, then kissed her hand sweetly before stepping away.Brady promptly high fived him. “Steve You beast!”“Dude fuck yeah!” he said enthusiastically, then took a bite from his cheeseburger, “Food’s ready!”“Dude Steve, you really just go fuck your wife just now?” Osvaldo said, holding a plate of chips, cheeseburger and veggies but not eating anything.“Yeah, she just, she wanted it, man,” Steve said, sort of shrugging and finding his warm beer, enjoying the sip nonetheless.“That’s awesome,” he said looking at his wife who’d heard him, her already watching him.“Don’t you be getting any ideas!” Amanda shouted at him with a smile, and everyone laughed.Ellen handed Jenny her half-full drink, saying; “Yeah, take it baby!” quoting Steve's very words from 10 minutes ago. The gals all broke out laughing.  Jenny blushed & felt both violated and riddled with questions.Ellen just pointed up to the 4 inch vent opening, high on the wall. Jenny's face said it all. But she quickly recovered and decided to own it. She recovered her proud continence and took a big swig of her iced tea and winked back at Ellen.“Seriously, what came over you Jenny?” Ellen asked her. She and Joe were the most religious and reserved of them all.Jenny half shrugged, feeling her man’s cum begin to seep out of her well fucked, wet cunt.“What? He’s mine, and I wanted him. And I didn’t want to wait,” she said, meeting the prudish woman’s eyes.“But what even started that?” Amanda asked next, her four five year old son running up to her and wanting a sudden bite.“I just, I suddenly had a thought about how short life is. And why wait?” Jenny said, Claire having toddled over for the same.Hannah’s eyes drifted to her husband.“Not to start like, a thing, but you’re pretty right,” she said, and gave Jenny a knowing look before rising herself and sauntering over to Brady.Jenny just laughed, the other women commotioned, and as Brady smiled the largest shit eating grin, he handed the spatula off to Jeff and they went inside.By nightfall, the powder room was a new code-word that every couple knew the meaning of. As the guests said their farewells, everyone hoped the groups would do this again, soon; and often. The group had some unspoken standards of discreteness, and the circle of friends were clearly monogamous and faithful to marital sanctity. But no one left that night with any shame about their coupling priorities.The next morning at church, they were all as devoutly religious as the widows in the front pew. Yet daydreaming fantasies for some Sunday afternoon delight, after lunch and settling the kids for a nap or a long movie.Hannah Goes Buck HuntingSeveral weeks later, Hannah and Brady had decided to get away from the kids for a bit.These hunting trips were fun, and more than just camping. Brady always needed something more than camping, and when he was happy the family was happy. For Hannah though, as the mom, this was a ton of work.If she thought about too much, she’d work herself up into a pissy mood, and she had goals with this ride.Brady had wanted a new ATV after they’d gotten rid of their first two and trailer, so she’d stated he could, but they’d have to discuss having a third baby.And they had discussed it. He wanted to wait, she didn’t want that much of a gap between the kids.It was an on-going discussion, but overall they were happy together and with their lives.The two of them bounced along the dusty trail with their ATV plume of dust being carried off by the warm eastern Idaho wind. She rode behind him, sunglasses on her pale green eyes and shoulder-length, platinum blonde hair in a bun, clutching his body to stabilize herself and to enjoy the closeness. And also to enjoy the angle of her jeaned hips on the seat, her legs spread naturally due to the design of the machine. Her clit pushed deliciously into the foam, the vibrations continually sending tiny shocks through her system.He in turn enjoyed her body against his, and especially her white tank top covered, C cup tits being pressed into his shoulder blades. Little did he know her nipples were getting harder and harder against her bra with each minute they rode.It was at this moment that Hannah thought of the BBQ from several weeks before, and how her friend Jenny had suddenly pulled her husband Steve into their powder room and had sex with him.The boldness of it had ignited something within Hannah herself, who’d in turn taken Brady upstairs and allowed him to plow her vigorously. They’d both cum, her several times, in a matter of minutes. Their friends had given both couples good natured grief for their impetuousness, and it was of course still hinted about.Neither couple really cared though.And as Hannah thought of that day, she did the math and realized today was one of her most fertile.They came up to a bend in the trail with a gorgeous view of a whole ridge and Brady pulled the ATV over to a stop. He rose and climbed off, getting his binoculars out and began glassing the hillside.Hannah made her decision and hiked her leg over the seat in order to put her left toe on the heel of her right boot, slipping it off, then followed by the other. She stood on the floorboard and undid her jeans, sliding them and her plain bikini cut grey panties over her plump MILF ass and down to her ankles.She reached down, pulled her boots back on then pulled her leather belt from her jeans. She seated it around her shapely hips, then reached under her tank top and unclasped her bra, pulling it free and onto the floorboard of the machine with her jeans and underwear.Lastly, she pulled the front of her top down so her tits were exposed. What warm blooded male could resist?She walked up to Brady and without ceremony knelt in front of him, staying on her feet so she was kneeling obscenely, her knees spread wide.The breeze had made most of the noise she’d made imperceptible to her husband, he only noticing when she’d come near, and that wasn’t out of the ordinary.What was unusual was his fly suddenly being undone, his glassing immediately stopped to look at his mostly undressed wife fishing his eight and a half inch cock out of his boxers and jerking it off as she looked up at him with a smile.“Brady?” She asked coyly, kissing his quickly hardening mushroom head. “Can I please suck your cock?”“Hannah, what the fu - uh fuck,” Brady said, her tongue running up the length of his shaft before twirling around the end, her hand still clasped around the base. “Uhh, uh, fuck woman. Ahh god damn!”She’d not really waited for his permission, engulfing as much of his cock inside her hot, wet mouth as she could. She wasted no time in bobbing her head, keeping her hand at the base to keep herself from gagging.She’d had a bit of a wild youth, but she was still human and maintained a healthy gag reflex.Brady though had gone from looking for antler tips in his 10 by 50 binos to suddenly having his tool worked over by his wife.But she sure didn’t look like his wife in this moment. He could see glimpses of her boots on her feet, her naked ass with just her belt around her sexy waist. Her boobs were out of her shirt and while her one hand was around his meat her other was down in her crotch, moving in the telltale motion of frigging herself.It was several minutes later, when she was looking up at him with those pretty green eyes, moving her face along his fully hard cock when she stood her body up, remaining bent over at the waist and blowing him at the same time, her tongue playing along the underside of him. He couldn’t take it anymore and needed to act.He dropped the optics and grabbed her head with both hands, taking charge and pushing her down himself with force, her hand having nowhere to go but to his thigh to steady herself as she fully gagged and choked.Brady didn’t care in the moment though, feeling the back of her throat hit his tip and shoving further anyway. When she coughed it opened her up and he went further, her nose finally pushing into his stomach.He thrusted several times into the fuck hole that was her mouth before he let go of her, allowing her air and a reprieve.*Cough!* “Fuck baby!” *cough cough!* “Got you going huh?” She spat out, standing upright.But Brady was the man in their house. She was his woman.She’d wanted to fuck around? Well she was about to find out.He pushed Hannah towards the ATV, her stumbling the several steps with his force, her hands going to the side of the rear rack before being able to turn towards him. His eyes had a different look to them as she leaned her ass up against the metal rack.“You sure the fuck did,” he said, not pausing or asking.He grabbed her left leg and lifted it, unceremoniously plunging his cock inside her sopping wet cunt all in one glorious thrust as her booted foot rested on the floorboard.“Ah! Oh, god!" Hannah screamed, her slit so lubed by her thoughts and ministrations that all she felt was pleasure as her tunnel was stretched around the invader.Brady grabbed her right hip as he wasted no time, slamming into his wife with hard, forceful pounds. If she wanted to act like a slut, he was going to fuck her like one."Ahh yeah, fuck yeah baby,” he said, hips pumping away at Hannah’s gash now with more speed instead of strength, savoring the feeling of her heat wrapped around him properly.“Oh, fuck,” she said, her whole body moving with each hump. “You, feel, so, good. Ah, ah, ah. You’re, gonna-a, make, me, cum, ah fuck!” she said, then screamed.She was orgasming. Here in the woods and wilds of Idaho. Being taken by her mate like countless females from eons prior, her flesh milking the organ that would make her round with child.“Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh” he merely said, satisfying his basest instinct, his length mostly buried within her quivering and gripping snatch.Again it was her eyes, her eyes that caught his at the tail end of her climax, squinted with exertion and pleasure but opening enough to see his that, combined with her words, made him unable to hold back.“Do it Brady. Give it all to me.”“Ugh-fuck! Huh-huh-huh-huh!” he gritted through his teeth as his balls boiled and his seed rocketed out of him and into the canal of his female.He was thrusting wildly, gripping her ass more than her hip as he pumped her body full of potent semen, eventually coming down and catching his breath.“Oh fuck. Oh fuck. God, damn. That was amazing,” he said, spent.But Hannah was a woman. And right then she was a woman on a mission.She brought her left leg down to the ground as Brady fell out of her cunt, quickly turning and arching her ass out before reaching back and guiding his still hard enough member back into her cum-filled hole.“Wha-oh god damn!” was all Brady could get out as his wife thrust her ass back against his hips, stroking his cock with her already white-coated walls in order to maintain his stiffness.“I’m not done with you honey,” Hannah said, looking over her shoulder and smiling, taking him inside of her again. “You need to pump another load in me.”Brady’s head came upright from its tilted back position. He’d enjoyed the orgasm immensely, and had been looking up into the trees as she’d begun fucking herself on him, but her words brought him back down.“Oh- is that what you’re doing? You’re looking to get knocked up?” he said, looking her square in the eye as his energy renewed with his clearing mind.She chuckled as his prick within her was stiffening more than it was deflating, “Well it’s working so far babe! Ah, ah, ah, huh!" Hannah had started to goad him, but his sudden grab of her belt and violent thrusts into her cunt stopped her words and forced feminine moans from her instead."You’re, fucking, manipulating, me, into, pumping, a kid, in, you?” Brady grunted each word, unrelenting in his carnality.“Ah, ah, ah!” was all she could say in response, her nipples hard as erasers moving with her breasts to their rhythm as Brady put his own thumb in his mouth, adjusting his other hand to pull on the belt with each thrust, driving ever harder into her vulnerable snatch.Then Brady suddenly stopped his pounding, Hannah’s body moving on its own for several moments before he grabbed her hair and pulled her head backwards.“Fine bitch,” he seethed into her ear, placing his saliva coated thumb at her anal entrance, his fingers pulling on the belt, her eyes going wide. “Then I’m going to knock you up properly.”His digit breached her backdoor in moments, fully seated and taking her tight, final virginity, held in place one-handed by his grip in her hole and the leather in his fingers.Even with all the sex she’d had in her wild years, all the cocks she’d sucked, cum she’d swallowed, loads on her face, chest, stomach, back, ass and up her tunnel; after all these years with Brady and the countless boat fuckings, back country car rides with road head and spontaneous fingering, all the seed she accepted into her vagina in the erotic and romantic efforts to have their three kids, she’d never let anyone play with her ass.“Oh, oh god!” she exclaimed, unable to stop herself from pushing back on the second intrusion, a type of instinct taking over her body and craving more penetration.She saw stars as his cock thrust for the second time, rubbing delightfully against her other invader through her inner wall, a wordless scream silent from her open mouth as her eyes rolled back in her skull. Her legs shook as her cunt exploded around the stiff rod running through her sheathe.Brady felt her heat and orgasm not only in the clenching flesh around his pole but in her ring squeezing down on his thumb.He chuckled as he wiggled it around.“Yeah, there you go you fucking slut!” he smiled triumphantly as he really began pounding her, fucking her ass now with his hand alternately from his cock in her insanely hot cunt.They fucked like animals for several minutes, with no words spoken. Just primal animal grunts and moans.Brady was taking his woman, intent on blasting her womb with the fluid that was designed by nature to ruin her lithe, 36 year old body.She reveled in giving herself fully to her stud, no longer squeezing her asshole but just relaxing it and allowed him to finger her with unbridled, short jabs. He’d possibly put his baby in her already, but god this was good.“Oh, fuck,” she said, turning her head despite his hold. “I’m going to get so big. Everyone’s going to know you pumped me full. Oh god, honey! You’re going to fucking destroy my body again!”Her eyes had gone from passion-filled as she talked to squinting with ecstasy, her whole body rocking with his power.“Argh, uh, fuck!” Brady exclaimed, finally letting go of her hair to grab her hip, his balls letting go as well.Hannah knew her husband’s cock well, knew him well, and knew she’d sent him over the edge. She felt the penis swell within her cunt, his pelvis grinding into her ass, his thumb having hooked up and was helping to drive his weapon into her further.She was still breathing hard from her latest orgasm, and was happy she wasn’t coming still.She wanted to feel every single moment of this, her last impregnation.She swore she could feel the cum pulse down his shaft, depositing deep within her stomach. A heat radiated from within her, just below her belly button, and it got warmer are larger as he held her tight and humped her naked ass.“Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!” Brady grunted, putting all of his being into injecting his wife with his cum, planting his seed as deep as his cock could reach.She felt every ounce inside her, destined to make her belly bulge, her tits swell, her gait become not a seductive sway but a motherly waddle.Everyone would know she’d laid down for him. That she’d allowed him to dump his cum into her. To use her. She shuddered, looking down at her flat tummy, knowing it wouldn’t last.Finally he let go of her hair, allowing her upper body to fall forward. He was most certainly out of breath, and Hannah was breathing heavily. He remembered where his thumb was and wriggled it again within her.Now that they weren’t actively fucking, Hannah immediately clenched her ring reflexively, holding him in there.“Hey! You asshole! Careful!” she said, looking back at him and his now quickly softening cock sliding part of the way out.“Naw naw naw, this is your asshole,” he said, pushing his hand and eliciting a squeal from her.“Ah, hey, stop it!” she said, but laughed slightly.Brady laughed too and pulled his cock from her loose cunt, then slowly retracted his thumb, making her sigh when it was out.“Oh babe, that was fucking amazing,” Brady said, stepping back from her a few feet.“Yeah, I know,” Hannah said with a grin, finding her panties and getting them on first, over her boots.She could feel her double load dribbling down her inner walls. She wished she could-She walked around the ATV, then sat her pantied-ass on the seat sideways, leaning back while holding on to the bar of the rack and the handlebar. The move made Brady groan out loud as she simultaneously craned her head back to look at him upside down, and brought her legs up, tilting her hips.“Brady,” she said seductively, “Will you please come clean your cock off in my mouth while your cum knocks me up?”Brady took a deep, smiling breath as he shuffled up to his open-mouthed wife.The wind on that ridge spread the news to all the deer in that ravine, While it was clearly not the musk of a doe in heat, several bucks couldn't ignore their own curiosity, or their territorial aggressiveness. As Brady was about to start up the ATV and ride the ridge to the north; the snort of a buck caught his ear from below the sage brush to the south.Within seconds, Brady was prone and scoping his rifle toward the sound of the buck. It only took one glance of the 12 point buck, up above the brush. A single shot dropped him. Within 2 hours Hannah and Brady were back at their RV and strapping the field-dressed buck in the ATV trailer.Hannah was in the camper, preparing a last meal, and packing up to head back home that evening. She was a proud woman. She had captured her trophy, deep in her very fertile cunt. Out behind the RV, Brady had his trophy roped securely on the trailer, for all the world to see.Hannah gushed on the praises of her provider's prowess. He was a capable provider.Brady needed no other affirmation than what his wife gave him.Brady drove contentedly, fully satisfied by his trophies. One on the trailer, and the other, riding shotgun.By CoyoteHoward, for Literotica

Episode Highlights, Links and Resources:During the opening, Jeremie and Steve discuss managing time and being more strategic with time. They mention the 5 Gears and several of the tools that help with communication and to make sure we are productive but also present with people in a healthy way. GiANT helps people become more Relationally Intelligent. They mention "thinkers" and "feelers" and the differences in personality. They have developed powerful tools to help people understand themselves and each other. You can access these tools by going to GiANT.Jeremie and Steve talk about Peace during their introduction conversation. Have you ever thought about how Peace affects your relationships? How do you be at peace with yourself and with those around you? No amount of business success helps when you're not at peace with the relationships in your life. Jeremie and Steve are available for a Peace Index or Communication Code Keynote at your next event or training. To book them, please contact Tracy Rader. Masi Willis is our guest today. She understands people dynamics as much as anyone. If you would like to talk to Masi about working with you as an individual, your team or your organization. Reach out to her on LinkedIn. And check out her website to see all that she offers. The Mason Effect.Masi mentions the Know Yourself to Lead Yourself tool. This tool transformed her as a leader. She has worked on knowing her tendencies so she can see where she undermines her influence. If you want to access these tools: Get your Pro account HERE.Masi shared a piece of wisdom she has heard before. "What you win your teams WITH, is what you will win them TO." She emphasizes the need to live out what your saying within your organization. The culture within an organization needs to be living out their values.  In other words, LIVE what you're selling!So, if you are leading an organization, "What are you selling to your employees?" It's not a one-and done. It must be an on-going living out of your values.Our favorite episode quotes: Steve, "Work can be incredible, but if a key relationship is off, no amount of business success brings peace when misalignment in key relationships is there."Jeremie, "When I am at peace, I'm really good. When I'm not at Peace, I'm really average. Peace is power."Masi, "What you win your teams WITH, is what you will win them TO." Episode Takeaway from Steve:  You only have finite time and you must prioritize what is most important.  How do I disappoint people who want more of my time, in a healthy way?Episode Takeaway from Jeremie:  Peace is power! If you want to empower people, you must have internal peace. Fight being at peace.If you want to become a GiANT Certified Coach,  learn more HERE and watch the video, then book a demo.If you'd like Steve or Jeremie to speak at your next event, either live or remote, inquire here:  tracy.rader@giantworldwide.com

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Steve Tuck, Co-Founder & CEO of Oxide Computer Company, joins Corey on Screaming in the Cloud to discuss his work to make modern computers cloud-friendly. Steve describes what it was like going through early investment rounds, and the difficult but important decision he and his co-founder made to build their own switch. Corey and Steve discuss the demand for on-prem computers that are built for cloud capability, and Steve reveals how Oxide approaches their product builds to ensure the masses can adopt their technology wherever they are. About SteveSteve is the Co-founder & CEO of Oxide Computer Company.  He previously was President & COO of Joyent, a cloud computing company acquired by Samsung.  Before that, he spent 10 years at Dell in a number of different roles. Links Referenced: Oxide Computer Company: https://oxide.computer/ On The Metal Podcast: https://oxide.computer/podcasts/on-the-metal TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: This episode is brought to us in part by our friends at RedHat. As your organization grows, so does the complexity of your IT resources. You need a flexible solution that lets you deploy, manage, and scale workloads throughout your entire ecosystem. The Red Hat Ansible Automation Platform simplifies the management of applications and services across your hybrid infrastructure with one platform. Look for it on the AWS Marketplace.Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. You know, I often say it—but not usually on the show—that Screaming in the Cloud is a podcast about the business of cloud, which is intentionally overbroad so that I can talk about basically whatever the hell I want to with whoever the hell I'd like. Today's guest is, in some ways of thinking, about as far in the opposite direction from Cloud as it's possible to go and still be involved in the digital world. Steve Tuck is the CEO at Oxide Computer Company. You know, computers, the things we all pretend aren't underpinning those clouds out there that we all use and pay by the hour, gigabyte, second-month-pound or whatever it works out to. Steve, thank you for agreeing to come back on the show after a couple years, and once again suffer my slings and arrows.Steve: Much appreciated. Great to be here. It has been a while. I was looking back, I think three years. This was like, pre-pandemic, pre-interest rates, pre… Twitter going totally sideways.Corey: And I have to ask to start with that, it feels, on some level, like toward the start of the pandemic, when everything was flying high and we'd had low interest rates for a decade, that there was a lot of… well, lunacy lurking around in the industry, my own business saw it, too. It turns out that not giving a shit about the AWS bill is in fact a zero interest rate phenomenon. And with all that money or concentrated capital sloshing around, people decided to do ridiculous things with it. I would have thought, on some level, that, “We're going to start a computer company in the Bay Area making computers,” would have been one of those, but given that we are a year into the correction, and things seem to be heading up into the right for you folks, that take was wrong. How'd I get it wrong?Steve: Well, I mean, first of all, you got part of it right, which is there were just a litany of ridiculous companies and projects and money being thrown in all directions at that time.Corey: An NFT of a computer. We're going to have one of those. That's what you're selling, right? Then you had to actually hard pivot to making the real thing.Steve: That's it. So, we might as well cut right to it, you know. This is—we went through the crypto phase. But you know, our—when we started the company, it was yes, a computer company. It's on the tin. It's definitely kind of the foundation of what we're building. But you know, we think about what a modern computer looks like through the lens of cloud.I was at a cloud computing company for ten years prior to us founding Oxide, so was Bryan Cantrill, CTO, co-founder. And, you know, we are huge, huge fans of cloud computing, which was an interesting kind of dichotomy. Instead of conversations when we were raising for Oxide—because of course, Sand Hill is terrified of hardware. And when we think about what modern computers need to look like, they need to be in support of the characteristics of cloud, and cloud computing being not that you're renting someone else's computers, but that you have fully programmable infrastructure that allows you to slice and dice, you know, compute and storage and networking however software needs. And so, what we set out to go build was a way for the companies that are running on-premises infrastructure—which, by the way, is almost everyone and will continue to be so for a very long time—access to the benefits of cloud computing. And to do that, you need to build a different kind of computing infrastructure and architecture, and you need to plumb the whole thing with software.Corey: There are a number of different ways to view cloud computing. And I think that a lot of the, shall we say, incumbent vendors over in the computer manufacturing world tend to sound kind of like dinosaurs, on some level, where they're always talking in terms of, you're a giant company and you already have a whole bunch of data centers out there. But one of the magical pieces of cloud is you can have a ridiculous idea at nine o'clock tonight and by morning, you'll have a prototype, if you're of that bent. And if it turns out it doesn't work, you're out, you know, 27 cents. And if it does work, you can keep going and not have to stop and rebuild on something enterprise-grade.So, for the small-scale stuff and rapid iteration, cloud providers are terrific. Conversely, when you wind up in the giant fleets of millions of computers, in some cases, there begin to be economic factors that weigh in, and for some on workloads—yes, I know it's true—going to a data center is the economical choice. But my question is, is starting a new company in the direction of building these things, is it purely about economics or is there a capability story tied in there somewhere, too?Steve: Yeah, it's actually economics ends up being a distant third, fourth, in the list of needs and priorities from the companies that we're working with. When we talk about—and just to be clear we're—our demographic, that kind of the part of the market that we are focused on are large enterprises, like, folks that are spending, you know, half a billion, billion dollars a year in IT infrastructure, they, over the last five years, have moved a lot of the use cases that are great for public cloud out to the public cloud, and who still have this very, very large need, be it for latency reasons or cost reasons, security reasons, regulatory reasons, where they need on-premises infrastructure in their own data centers and colo facilities, et cetera. And it is for those workloads in that part of their infrastructure that they are forced to live with enterprise technologies that are 10, 20, 30 years old, you know, that haven't evolved much since I left Dell in 2009. And, you know, when you think about, like, what are the capabilities that are so compelling about cloud computing, one of them is yes, what you mentioned, which is you have an idea at nine o'clock at night and swipe a credit card, and you're off and running. And that is not the case for an idea that someone has who is going to use the on-premises infrastructure of their company. And this is where you get shadow IT and 16 digits to freedom and all the like.Corey: Yeah, everyone with a corporate credit card winds up being a shadow IT source in many cases. If your processes as a company don't make it easier to proceed rather than doing it the wrong way, people are going to be fighting against you every step of the way. Sometimes the only stick you've got is that of regulation, which in some industries, great, but in other cases, no, you get to play Whack-a-Mole. I've talked to too many companies that have specific scanners built into their mail system every month looking for things that look like AWS invoices.Steve: [laugh]. Right, exactly. And so, you know, but if you flip it around, and you say, well, what if the experience for all of my infrastructure that I am running, or that I want to provide to my software development teams, be it rented through AWS, GCP, Azure, or owned for economic reasons or latency reasons, I had a similar set of characteristics where my development team could hit an API endpoint and provision instances in a matter of seconds when they had an idea and only pay for what they use, back to kind of corporate IT. And what if they were able to use the same kind of developer tools they've become accustomed to using, be it Terraform scripts and the kinds of access that they are accustomed to using? How do you make those developers just as productive across the business, instead of just through public cloud infrastructure?At that point, then you are in a much stronger position where you can say, you know, for a portion of things that are, as you pointed out, you know, more unpredictable, and where I want to leverage a bunch of additional services that a particular cloud provider has, I can rent that. And where I've got more persistent workloads or where I want a different economic profile or I need to have something in a very low latency manner to another set of services, I can own it. And that's where I think the real chasm is because today, you just don't—we take for granted the basic plumbing of cloud computing, you know? Elastic Compute, Elastic Storage, you know, networking and security services. And us in the cloud industry end up wanting to talk a lot more about exotic services and, sort of, higher-up stack capabilities. None of that basic plumbing is accessible on-prem.Corey: I also am curious as to where exactly Oxide lives in the stack because I used to build computers for myself in 2000, and it seems like having gone down that path a bit recently, yeah, that process hasn't really improved all that much. The same off-the-shelf components still exist and that's great. We always used to disparagingly call spinning hard drives as spinning rust in racks. You named the company Oxide; you're talking an awful lot about the Rust programming language in public a fair bit of the time, and I'm starting to wonder if maybe words don't mean what I thought they meant anymore. Where do you folks start and stop, exactly?Steve: Yeah, that's a good question. And when we started, we sort of thought the scope of what we were going to do and then what we were going to leverage was smaller than it has turned out to be. And by that I mean, man, over the last three years, we have hit a bunch of forks in the road where we had questions about do we take something off the shelf or do we build it ourselves. And we did not try to build everything ourselves. So, to give you a sense of kind of where the dotted line is, around the Oxide product, what we're delivering to customers is a rack-level computer. So, the minimum size comes in rack form. And I think your listeners are probably pretty familiar with this. But, you know, a rack is—Corey: You would be surprised. It's basically, what are they about seven feet tall?Steve: Yeah, about eight feet tall.Corey: Yeah, yeah. Seven, eight feet, weighs a couple 1000 pounds, you know, make an insulting joke about—Steve: Two feet wide.Corey: —NBA players here. Yeah, all kinds of these things.Steve: Yeah. And big hunk of metal. And in the cases of on-premises infrastructure, it's kind of a big hunk of metal hole, and then a bunch of 1U and 2U boxes crammed into it. What the hyperscalers have done is something very different. They started looking at, you know, at the rack level, how can you get much more dense, power-efficient designs, doing things like using a DC bus bar down the back, instead of having 64 power supplies with cables hanging all over the place in a rack, which I'm sure is what you're more familiar with.Corey: Tremendous amount of weight as well because you have the metal chassis for all of those 1U things, which in some cases, you wind up with, what, 46U in a rack, assuming you can even handle the cooling needs of all that.Steve: That's right.Corey: You have so much duplication, and so much of the weight is just metal separating one thing from the next thing down below it. And there are opportunities for massive improvement, but you need to be at a certain point of scale to get there.Steve: You do. You do. And you also have to be taking on the entire problem. You can't pick at parts of these things. And that's really what we found. So, we started at this sort of—the rack level as sort of the design principle for the product itself and found that that gave us the ability to get to the right geometry, to get as much CPU horsepower and storage and throughput and networking into that kind of chassis for the least amount of wattage required, kind of the most power-efficient design possible.So, it ships at the rack level and it ships complete with both our server sled systems in Oxide, a pair of Oxide switches. This is—when I talk about, like, design decisions, you know, do we build our own switch, it was a big, big, big question early on. We were fortunate even though we were leaning towards thinking we needed to go do that, we had this prospective early investor who was early at AWS and he had asked a very tough question that none of our other investors had asked to this point, which is, “What are you going to do about the switch?”And we knew that the right answer to an investor is like, “No. We're already taking on too much.” We're redesigning a server from scratch in, kind of, the mold of what some of the hyperscalers have learned, doing our own Root of Trust, we're doing our own operating system, hypervisor control plane, et cetera. Taking on the switch could be seen as too much, but we told them, you know, we think that to be able to pull through all of the value of the security benefits and the performance and observability benefits, we can't have then this [laugh], like, obscure third-party switch rammed into this rack.Corey: It's one of those things that people don't think about, but it's the magic of cloud with AWS's network, for example, it's magic. You can get line rate—or damn near it—between any two points, sustained.Steve: That's right.Corey: Try that in the data center, you wind into massive congestion with top-of-rack switches, where, okay, we're going to parallelize this stuff out over, you know, two dozen racks and we're all going to have them seamlessly transfer information between each other at line rate. It's like, “[laugh] no, you're not because those top-of-rack switches will melt and become side-of-rack switches, and then bottom-puddle-of-rack switches. It doesn't work that way.”Steve: That's right.Corey: And you have to put a lot of thought and planning into it. That is something that I've not heard a traditional networking vendor addressing because everyone loves to hand-wave over it.Steve: Well so, and this particular prospective investor, we told him, “We think we have to go build our own switch.” And he said, “Great.” And we said, “You know, we think we're going to lose you as an investor as a result, but this is what we're doing.” And he said, “If you're building your own switch, I want to invest.” And his comment really stuck with us, which is AWS did not stand on their own two feet until they threw out their proprietary switch vendor and built their own.And that really unlocked, like you've just mentioned, like, their ability, both in hardware and software to tune and optimize to deliver that kind of line rate capability. And that is one of the big findings for us as we got into it. Yes, it was really, really hard, but based on a couple of design decisions, P4 being the programming language that we are using as the surround for our silicon, tons of opportunities opened up for us to be able to do similar kinds of optimization and observability. And that has been a big, big win.But to your question of, like, where does it stop? So, we are delivering this complete with a baked-in operating system, hypervisor, control plane. And so, the endpoint of the system, where the customer meets is either hitting an API or a CLI or a console that delivers and kind of gives you the ability to spin up projects. And, you know, if one is familiar with EC2 and EBS and VPC, that VM level of abstraction is where we stop.Corey: That, I think, is a fair way of thinking about it. And a lot of cloud folks are going to pooh-pooh it as far as saying, “Oh well, just virtual machines. That's old cloud. That just treats the cloud like a data center.” And in many cases, yes, it does because there are ways to build modern architectures that are event-driven on top of things like Lambda, and API Gateway, and the rest, but you take a look at what my customers are doing and what drives the spend, it is invariably virtual machines that are largely persistent.Sometimes they scale up, sometimes they scale down, but there's always a baseline level of load that people like to hand-wave away the fact that what they're fundamentally doing in a lot of these cases, is paying the cloud provider to handle the care and feeding of those systems, which can be expensive, yes, but also delivers significant innovation beyond what almost any company is going to be able to deliver in-house. There is no way around it. AWS is better than you are—whoever you happen to—be at replacing failed hard drives. That is a simple fact. They have teams of people who are the best in the world of replacing failed hard drives. You generally do not. They are going to be better at that than you. But that's not the only axis. There's not one calculus that leads to, is cloud a scam or is cloud a great value proposition for us? The answer is always a deeply nuanced, “It depends.”Steve: Yeah, I mean, I think cloud is a great value proposition for most and a growing amount of software that's being developed and deployed and operated. And I think, you know, one of the myths that is out there is, hey, turn over your IT to AWS because we have or you know, a cloud provider—because we have such higher caliber personnel that are really good at swapping hard drives and dealing with networks and operationally keeping this thing running in a highly available manner that delivers good performance. That is certainly true, but a lot of the operational value in an AWS is been delivered via software, the automation, the observability, and not actual people putting hands on things. And it's an important point because that's been a big part of what we're building into the product. You know, just because you're running infrastructure in your own data center, it does not mean that you should have to spend, you know, 1000 hours a month across a big team to maintain and operate it. And so, part of that, kind of, cloud, hyperscaler innovation that we're baking into this product is so that it is easier to operate with much, much, much lower overhead in a highly available, resilient manner.Corey: So, I've worked in a number of data center facilities, but the companies I was working with, were always at a scale where these were co-locations, where they would, in some cases, rent out a rack or two, in other cases, they'd rent out a cage and fill it with their own racks. They didn't own the facilities themselves. Those were always handled by other companies. So, my question for you is, if I want to get a pile of Oxide racks into my environment in a data center, what has to change? What are the expectations?I mean, yes, there's obviously going to be power and requirements at the data center colocation is very conversant with, but Open Compute, for example, had very specific requirements—to my understanding—around things like the airflow construction of the environment that they're placed within. How prescriptive is what you've built, in terms of doing a building retrofit to start using you folks?Steve: Yeah, definitely not. And this was one of the tensions that we had to balance as we were designing the product. For all of the benefits of hyperscaler computing, some of the design center for you know, the kinds of racks that run in Google and Amazon and elsewhere are hyperscaler-focused, which is unlimited power, in some cases, data centers designed around the equipment itself. And where we were headed, which was basically making hyperscaler infrastructure available to, kind of, the masses, the rest of the market, these folks don't have unlimited power and they aren't going to go be able to go redesign data centers. And so no, the experience should be—with exceptions for folks maybe that have very, very limited access to power—that you roll this rack into your existing data center. It's on standard floor tile, that you give it power, and give it networking and go.And we've spent a lot of time thinking about how we can operate in the wide-ranging environmental characteristics that are commonplace in data centers that focus on themselves, colo facilities, and the like. So, that's really on us so that the customer is not having to go to much work at all to kind of prepare and be ready for it.Corey: One of the challenges I have is how to think about what you've done because you are rack-sized. But what that means is that my own experimentation at home recently with on-prem stuff for smart home stuff involves a bunch of Raspberries Pi and a [unintelligible 00:19:42], but I tend to more or less categorize you the same way that I do AWS Outposts, as well as mythical creatures, like unicorns or giraffes, where I don't believe that all these things actually exist because I haven't seen them. And in fact, to get them in my house, all four of those things would theoretically require a loading dock if they existed, and that's a hard thing to fake on a demo signup form, as it turns out. How vaporware is what you've built? Is this all on paper and you're telling amazing stories or do they exist in the wild?Steve: So, last time we were on, it was all vaporware. It was a couple of napkin drawings and a seed round of funding.Corey: I do recall you not using that description at the time, for what it's worth. Good job.Steve: [laugh]. Yeah, well, at least we were transparent where we were going through the race. We had some napkin drawings and we had some good ideas—we thought—and—Corey: You formalize those and that's called Microsoft PowerPoint.Steve: That's it. A hundred percent.Corey: The next generative AI play is take the scrunched-up, stained napkin drawing, take a picture of it, and convert it to a slide.Steve: Google Docs, you know, one of those. But no, it's got a lot of scars from the build and it is real. In fact, next week, we are going to be shipping our first commercial systems. So, we have got a line of racks out in our manufacturing facility in lovely Rochester, Minnesota. Fun fact: Rochester, Minnesota, is where the IBM AS/400s were built.Corey: I used to work in that market, of all things.Steve: Really?Corey: Selling tape drives in the AS/400. I mean, I still maintain there's no real mainframe migration to the cloud play because there's no AWS/400. A joke that tends to sail over an awful lot of people's heads because, you know, most people aren't as miserable in their career choices as I am.Steve: Okay, that reminds me. So, when we were originally pitching Oxide and we were fundraising, we [laugh]—in a particular investor meeting, they asked, you know, “What would be a good comp? Like how should we think about what you are doing?” And fortunately, we had about 20 investor meetings to go through, so burning one on this was probably okay, but we may have used the AS/400 as a comp, talking about how [laugh] mainframe systems did such a good job of building hardware and software together. And as you can imagine, there were some blank stares in that room.But you know, there are some good analogs to historically in the computing industry, when you know, the industry, the major players in the industry, were thinking about how to deliver holistic systems to support end customers. And, you know, we see this in the what Apple has done with the iPhone, and you're seeing this as a lot of stuff in the automotive industry is being pulled in-house. I was listening to a good podcast. Jim Farley from Ford was talking about how the automotive industry historically outsourced all of the software that controls cars, right? So, like, Bosch would write the software for the controls for your seats.And they had all these suppliers that were writing the software, and what it meant was that innovation was not possible because you'd have to go out to suppliers to get software changes for any little change you wanted to make. And in the computing industry, in the 80s, you saw this blow apart where, like, firmware got outsourced. In the IBM and the clones, kind of, race, everyone started outsourcing firmware and outsourcing software. Microsoft started taking over operating systems. And then VMware emerged and was doing a virtualization layer.And this, kind of, fragmented ecosystem is the landscape today that every single on-premises infrastructure operator has to struggle with. It's a kit car. And so, pulling it back together, designing things in a vertically integrated manner is what the hyperscalers have done. And so, you mentioned Outposts. And, like, it's a good example of—I mean, the most public cloud of public cloud companies created a way for folks to get their system on-prem.I mean, if you need anything to underscore the draw and the demand for cloud computing-like, infrastructure on-prem, just the fact that that emerged at all tells you that there is this big need. Because you've got, you know, I don't know, a trillion dollars worth of IT infrastructure out there and you have maybe 10% of it in the public cloud. And that's up from 5% when Jassy was on stage in '21, talking about 95% of stuff living outside of AWS, but there's going to be a giant market of customers that need to own and operate infrastructure. And again, things have not improved much in the last 10 or 20 years for them.Corey: They have taken a tone onstage about how, “Oh, those workloads that aren't in the cloud, yet, yeah, those people are legacy idiots.” And I don't buy that for a second because believe it or not—I know that this cuts against what people commonly believe in public—but company execs are generally not morons, and they make decisions with context and constraints that we don't see. Things are the way they are for a reason. And I promise that 90% of corporate IT workloads that still live on-prem are not being managed or run by people who've never heard of the cloud. There was a decision made when some other things were migrating of, do we move this thing to the cloud or don't we? And the answer at the time was no, we're going to keep this thing on-prem where it is now for a variety of reasons of varying validity. But I don't view that as a bug. I also, frankly, don't want to live in a world where all the computers are basically run by three different companies.Steve: You're spot on, which is, like, it does a total disservice to these smart and forward-thinking teams in every one of the Fortune 1000-plus companies who are taking the constraints that they have—and some of those constraints are not monetary or entirely workload-based. If you want to flip it around, we were talking to a large cloud SaaS company and their reason for wanting to extend it beyond the public cloud is because they want to improve latency for their e-commerce platform. And navigating their way through the complex layers of the networking stack at GCP to get to where the customer assets are that are in colo facilities, adds lag time on the platform that can cost them hundreds of millions of dollars. And so, we need to think behind this notion of, like, “Oh, well, the dark ages are for software that can't run in the cloud, and that's on-prem. And it's just a matter of time until everything moves to the cloud.”In the forward-thinking models of public cloud, it should be both. I mean, you should have a consistent experience, from a certain level of the stack down, everywhere. And then it's like, do I want to rent or do I want to own for this particular use case? In my vast set of infrastructure needs, do I want this to run in a data center that Amazon runs or do I want this to run in a facility that is close to this other provider of mine? And I think that's best for all. And then it's not this kind of false dichotomy of quality infrastructure or ownership.Corey: I find that there are also workloads where people will come to me and say, “Well, we don't think this is going to be economical in the cloud”—because again, I focus on AWS bills. That is the lens I view things through, and—“The AWS sales rep says it will be. What do you think?” And I look at what they're doing and especially if involves high volumes of data transfer, I laugh a good hearty laugh and say, “Yeah, keep that thing in the data center where it is right now. You will thank me for it later.”It's, “Well, can we run this in an economical way in AWS?” As long as you're okay with economical meaning six times what you're paying a year right now for the same thing, yeah, you can. I wouldn't recommend it. And the numbers sort of speak for themselves. But it's not just an economic play.There's also the story of, does this increase their capability? Does it let them move faster toward their business goals? And in a lot of cases, the answer is no, it doesn't. It's one of those business process things that has to exist for a variety of reasons. You don't get to reimagine it for funsies and even if you did, it doesn't advance the company in what they're trying to do any, so focus on something that differentiates as opposed to this thing that you're stuck on.Steve: That's right. And what we see today is, it is easy to be in that mindset of running things on-premises is kind of backwards-facing because the experience of it is today still very, very difficult. I mean, talking to folks and they're sharing with us that it takes a hundred days from the time all the different boxes land in their warehouse to actually having usable infrastructure that developers can use. And our goal and what we intend to go hit with Oxide as you can roll in this complete rack-level system, plug it in, within an hour, you have developers that are accessing cloud-like services out of the infrastructure. And that—God, countless stories of firmware bugs that would send all the fans in the data center nonlinear and soak up 100 kW of power.Corey: Oh, God. And the problems that you had with the out-of-band management systems. For a long time, I thought Drax stood for, “Dell, RMA Another Computer.” It was awful having to deal with those things. There was so much room for innovation in that space, which no one really grabbed onto.Steve: There was a really, really interesting talk at DEFCON that we just stumbled upon yesterday. The NVIDIA folks are giving a talk on BMC exploits… and like, a very, very serious BMC exploit. And again, it's what most people don't know is, like, first of all, the BMC, the Baseboard Management Controller, is like the brainstem of the computer. It has access to—it's a backdoor into all of your infrastructure. It's a computer inside a computer and it's got software and hardware that your server OEM didn't build and doesn't understand very well.And firmware is even worse because you know, firmware written by you know, an American Megatrends or other is a big blob of software that gets loaded into these systems that is very hard to audit and very hard to ascertain what's happening. And it's no surprise when, you know, back when we were running all the data centers at a cloud computing company, that you'd run into these issues, and you'd go to the server OEM and they'd kind of throw their hands up. Well, first they'd gaslight you and say, “We've never seen this problem before,” but when you thought you've root-caused something down to firmware, it was anyone's guess. And this is kind of the current condition today. And back to, like, the journey to get here, we kind of realized that you had to blow away that old extant firmware layer, and we rewrote our own firmware in Rust. Yes [laugh], I've done a lot in Rust.Corey: No, it was in Rust, but, on some level, that's what Nitro is, as best I can tell, on the AWS side. But it turns out that you don't tend to have the same resources as a one-and-a-quarter—at the moment—trillion-dollar company. That keeps [valuing 00:30:53]. At one point, they lost a comma and that was sad and broke all my logic for that and I haven't fixed it since. Unfortunate stuff.Steve: Totally. I think that was another, kind of, question early on from certainly a lot of investors was like, “Hey, how are you going to pull this off with a smaller team and there's a lot of surface area here?” Certainly a reasonable question. Definitely was hard. The one advantage—among others—is, when you are designing something kind of in a vertical holistic manner, those design integration points are narrowed down to just your equipment.And when someone's writing firmware, when AMI is writing firmware, they're trying to do it to cover hundreds and hundreds of components across dozens and dozens of vendors. And we have the advantage of having this, like, purpose-built system, kind of, end-to-end from the lowest level from first boot instruction, all the way up through the control plane and from rack to switch to server. That definitely helped narrow the scope.Corey: This episode has been fake sponsored by our friends at AWS with the following message: Graviton Graviton, Graviton, Graviton, Graviton, Graviton, Graviton, Graviton, Graviton. Thank you for your l-, lack of support for this show. Now, AWS has been talking about Graviton an awful lot, which is their custom in-house ARM processor. Apple moved over to ARM and instead of talking about benchmarks they won't publish and marketing campaigns with words that don't mean anything, they've let the results speak for themselves. In time, I found that almost all of my workloads have moved over to ARM architecture for a variety of reason, and my laptop now gets 15 hours of battery life when all is said and done. You're building these things on top of x86. What is the deal there? I do not accept that if that you hadn't heard of ARM until just now because, as mentioned, Graviton, Graviton, Graviton.Steve: That's right. Well, so why x86, to start? And I say to start because we have just launched our first generation products. And our first-generation or second-generation products that we are now underway working on are going to be x86 as well. We've built this system on AMD Milan silicon; we are going to be launching a Genoa sled.But when you're thinking about what silicon to use, obviously, there's a bunch of parts that go into the decision. You're looking at the kind of applicability to workload, performance, power management, for sure, and if you carve up what you are trying to achieve, x86 is still a terrific fit for the broadest set of workloads that our customers are trying to solve for. And choosing which x86 architecture was certainly an easier choice, come 2019. At this point, AMD had made a bunch of improvements in performance and energy efficiency in the chip itself. We've looked at other architectures and I think as we are incorporating those in the future roadmap, it's just going to be a question of what are you trying to solve for.You mentioned power management, and that is kind of commonly been a, you know, low power systems is where folks have gone beyond x86. Is we're looking forward to hardware acceleration products and future products, we'll certainly look beyond x86, but x86 has a long, long road to go. It still is kind of the foundation for what, again, is a general-purpose cloud infrastructure for being able to slice and dice for a variety of workloads.Corey: True. I have to look around my environment and realize that Intel is not going anywhere. And that's not just an insult to their lack of progress on committed roadmaps that they consistently miss. But—Steve: [sigh].Corey: Enough on that particular topic because we want to keep this, you know, polite.Steve: Intel has definitely had some struggles for sure. They're very public ones, I think. We were really excited and continue to be very excited about their Tofino silicon line. And this came by way of the Barefoot networks acquisition. I don't know how much you had paid attention to Tofino, but what was really, really compelling about Tofino is the focus on both hardware and software and programmability.So, great chip. And P4 is the programming language that surrounds that. And we have gotten very, very deep on P4, and that is some of the best tech to come out of Intel lately. But from a core silicon perspective for the rack, we went with AMD. And again, that was a pretty straightforward decision at the time. And we're planning on having this anchored around AMD silicon for a while now.Corey: One last question I have before we wind up calling it an episode, it seems—at least as of this recording, it's still embargoed, but we're not releasing this until that winds up changing—you folks have just raised another round, which means that your napkin doodles have apparently drawn more folks in, and now that you're shipping, you're also not just bringing in customers, but also additional investor money. Tell me about that.Steve: Yes, we just completed our Series A. So, when we last spoke three years ago, we had just raised our seed and had raised $20 million at the time, and we had expected that it was going to take about that to be able to build the team and build the product and be able to get to market, and [unintelligible 00:36:14] tons of technical risk along the way. I mean, there was technical risk up and down the stack around this [De Novo 00:36:21] server design, this the switch design. And software is still the kind of disproportionate majority of what this product is, from hypervisor up through kind of control plane, the cloud services, et cetera. So—Corey: We just view it as software with a really, really confusing hardware dongle.Steve: [laugh]. Yeah. Yes.Corey: Super heavy. We're talking enterprise and government-grade here.Steve: That's right. There's a lot of software to write. And so, we had a bunch of milestones that as we got through them, one of the big ones was getting Milan silicon booting on our firmware. It was funny it was—this was the thing that clearly, like, the industry was most suspicious of, us doing our own firmware, and you could see it when we demonstrated booting this, like, a year-and-a-half ago, and AMD all of a sudden just lit up, from kind of arm's length to, like, “How can we help? This is amazing.” You know? And they could start to see the benefits of when you can tie low-level silicon intelligence up through a hypervisor there's just—Corey: No I love the existing firmware I have. Looks like it was written in 1984 and winds up having terrible user ergonomics that hasn't been updated at all, and every time something comes through, it's a 50/50 shot as whether it fries the box or not. Yeah. No, I want that.Steve: That's right. And you look at these hyperscale data centers, and it's like, no. I mean, you've got intelligence from that first boot instruction through a Root of Trust, up through the software of the hyperscaler, and up to the user level. And so, as we were going through and kind of knocking down each one of these layers of the stack, doing our own firmware, doing our own hardware Root of Trust, getting that all the way plumbed up into the hypervisor and the control plane, number one on the customer side, folks moved from, “This is really interesting. We need to figure out how we can bring cloud capabilities to our data centers. Talk to us when you have something,” to, “Okay. We actually”—back to the earlier question on vaporware, you know, it was great having customers out here to Emeryville where they can put their hands on the rack and they can, you know, put your hands on software, but being able to, like, look at real running software and that end cloud experience.And that led to getting our first couple of commercial contracts. So, we've got some great first customers, including a large department of the government, of the federal government, and a leading firm on Wall Street that we're going to be shipping systems to in a matter of weeks. And as you can imagine, along with that, that drew a bunch of renewed interest from the investor community. Certainly, a different climate today than it was back in 2019, but what was great to see is, you still have great investors that understand the importance of making bets in the hard tech space and in companies that are looking to reinvent certain industries. And so, we added—our existing investors all participated. We added a bunch of terrific new investors, both strategic and institutional.And you know, this capital is going to be super important now that we are headed into market and we are beginning to scale up the business and make sure that we have a long road to go. And of course, maybe as importantly, this was a real confidence boost for our customers. They're excited to see that Oxide is going to be around for a long time and that they can invest in this technology as an important part of their infrastructure strategy.Corey: I really want to thank you for taking the time to speak with me about, well, how far you've come in a few years. If people want to learn more and have the requisite loading dock, where should they go to find you?Steve: So, we try to put everything up on the site. So, oxidecomputer.com or oxide.computer. We also, if you remember, we did [On the Metal 00:40:07]. So, we had a Tales from the Hardware-Software Interface podcast that we did when we started. We have shifted that to Oxide and Friends, which the shift there is we're spending a little bit more time talking about the guts of what we built and why. So, if folks are interested in, like, why the heck did you build a switch and what does it look like to build a switch, we actually go to depth on that. And you know, what does bring-up on a new server motherboard look like? And it's got some episodes out there that might be worth checking out.Corey: We will definitely include a link to that in the [show notes 00:40:36]. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.Steve: Yeah, Corey. Thanks for having me on.Corey: Steve Tuck, CEO at Oxide Computer Company. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn, and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this episode, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, along with an angry ranting comment because you are in fact a zoology major, and you're telling me that some animals do in fact exist. But I'm pretty sure of the two of them, it's the unicorn.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.

Rose Plate Special: Charity, Week 9 Here's what we'll say about the finale: Kudos to the producers for faking out Sammi fairly effectively, but is it even a fakeout when she was operating on little sleep and lots of pinball on the brain? Hard to say. See you all for a bonus episode of Jilly Box opening before Season 16 of our podcast launches at the end of September! Transcription Please forgive minor typos! Sammi: And you're listening to Rose Plate Special, the most dramatic googly eyeingist I have nothing for this because everything we said. Steve: Was going to happen, happened. Sammi: Paradise promoing us recap podcast of The Bachelorette ever. Sammi: Yeah, it was so bad. Steve: Ever. Steve: Sammi. Steve: Are you the bachelorette? Steve: Nostradamus perhaps. Sammi: Maybe. Sammi: But here's the thing that's interesting. Sammi: So first of all, sorry this is late everyone. Sammi: I was on vacation and I actually took a break, which I never do, and so you should all be proud of me. Sammi: But here we are also. Sammi: Okay, so a couple of pieces of news. Sammi: So yes, I was on vacation and that was fun. Sammi: That's not really news. Sammi: Second piece of news that is news. Sammi: The jilly box is coming probably in the next day or two. Sammi: So if you are interested, we can do another special we'll do between now and like The Golden Bachelor. Sammi: We can do a special jilly unboxing for. Sammi: Oh, and then yeah, here's what's interesting about this. Sammi: Also, my notes are a little spotty, so I may need you to fill in because I watched this. Sammi: So I was just telling Steve that one of the things that we did on vacation is we went to this retrocade and we played all you can play Pinball until like, I don't know, almost two in the morning. Sammi: And we got home and we started talking about the top 100 pinball games and we were talking about what we would want in our basement and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Sammi: And then I was like, oh s***, I got to start watching The Bachelorete in case we decide we want to record. Sammi: So I went to bed at four in the morning. Sammi: This is not like me. Steve: And we're recording late anyways. Sammi: Yeah, I was up until four in the morning watching it and then I woke up the next day and finished it. Sammi: So I might have missed some key things because I was all jacked up about pinball. Sammi: Like I literally had maybe two drinks the whole night. Sammi: It wasn't like, oh, it's partying hard. Sammi: I was like really trying to crack the game. Sammi: Barbed wire. Sammi: Could not get it. Sammi: Oh wow, not get it. Sammi: But medieval madness. Sammi: I had a really good round. Sammi: Yeah, it's one of my favorites. Sammi: Anyway, so that's what I was doing when I was taking notes. Sammi: But yeah, so what's interesting though is despite knowing everything that happened, they tricked me. Sammi: I got tricked because I was like, oh my God, maybe it is going to be Joey. Sammi: And I was like, wow, everything I thought was wrong. Sammi: And I was like so shocked. Sammi: And I was like, no way. Sammi: So they fooled me hard. Sammi: I really just was like, oh, this is how everyone's leaning and this is what's going to happen. Sammi: And last week I was like, datten is a sure thing, he is a sure thing. Sammi: And then I was like, I'm just not so sure. Steve: So we've been in this game long enough. Steve: Sammi, this is the trickery. Steve: Because they knew that we knew that to was going to run away with this thing, so they had to throw us some swerves. Sammi: I got so fooled. Steve: Well, one thing's for sure, because this episode starts off on Aaron, nobody in the entire universe thought that Aaron was going to be sticking don. Steve: I don't think they do Vegas odds for the Bachelor or the Bachelorete. Steve: But if they did, you wouldn't even be allowed to bet on Aaron because that's how bad of a shot he. Sammi: So yeah, it was just so basically and also they do this thing at the very beginning and, like, dawn gets claps and Joey gets claps and Aaron got nothing. Steve: No, and it's not because he's a bad guy. Steve: He's the most uninteresting man in the world. Sammi: They were just did something. Sammi: Did you just say Aaron? Sammi: Oh, I missed it. Sammi: I was thinking about something. Sammi: So and then when they're like, we're going to do a thing that's never happened. Sammi: Okay, this was my guess, which I think is funny. Sammi: Like Charity's brother is going to come on and propose to a long term partner on the show. Sammi: But that didn't happen. Sammi: But that's what I thought because I was like, bring nehemiah back. Sammi: But that's not what happened. Sammi: So this is the best part, too, is Aaron. Sammi: So she's like, obviously this is what was going through Charity's mind. Sammi: I'm thinking is she was probably like, he came all the way to Fiji. Sammi: What am I going to do, say go home? Sammi: She's like, I have to make it feel like he has somewhat of a shot or like something could happen. Sammi: But I love that she was like, this is giving me acid reflux. Steve: Yeah, it's like, bro, you flew probably like 14 hours just to get dumped, which is real sad. Steve: And if someone in production had half a heart, they would have told you to stay at home, but they didn't. Steve: And then it's also sad because it's like, I mean, we all knew you had to know deep down that she didn't have a shot. Steve: And then when she's finally and you know, she walks about and everything, he's just like, well, it's okay. Steve: I'm still in your corner. Steve: It's like, dude, she doesn't need you and you don't need to be here. Steve: What are you doing here? Steve: What's going on, Aaron? Sammi: Come on. Steve: Come on. Steve: I don't know. Steve: And then he's such a dork and not in the fun way. Steve: It's just uninteresting. Steve: And then he's going to be on paradise and I could not find a shred of anything inside of myself that got excited for Aaron on. Sammi: Feel like I feel like you just like Aaron a lot more than I do. Sammi: But I just felt really bad for like I was just I mean, maybe this was something that raised his stock enough to make it worth it for him to be on paradise. Sammi: It gave him more of a story that's something that some of the women on the beach might be like, wow, that's so romantic. Sammi: You flew all the way to Fiji. Sammi: It could work in his favor, for sure. Sammi: But yeah, I was mean, I don't know. Sammi: And then he was like, the emotions I've always felt it's good to feel again. Sammi: And I was like, it's been like two days, Aaron. Sammi: I mean, it's not like it's been so long. Sammi: It's like maybe been a couple days. Sammi: But the best part about this whole thing was they get to the rose ceremony and Joey's like, am I on drugs? Sammi: He's like, blinking. Sammi: I don't have glasses to clean. Sammi: What's happening? Sammi: Wait, Aaron's here and Xavier isn't? Sammi: It was so sweet that he was like, what? Sammi: I don't even know. Sammi: And then as soon as she gave Joey a rose, I was like, well, Erin is going home because obviously Dotton's getting the other one. Sammi: That was really obvious. Sammi: And then she's like, Erin, can you come with me? Sammi: And he knew. Sammi: Then he's like, okay, yeah, Aaron is. Steve: In the top three because technically you have to have a top three. Steve: So what are you going to do? Sammi: I don't know. Sammi: I guess at the end I feel like at the end that we've had it before, where it's just like two of them, where one of them goes home early and then it's just the two of them at the rose ceremony. Sammi: It's like, well, you both get the roses. Sammi: No drama there. Sammi: Goodbye. Sammi: Yeah, but yeah, so that was inevitable. Sammi: It was just inevitable. Sammi: All my notes about Erin talking with Jesse afterwards were just that it was a generic talk and he's going to be in paradise. Sammi: And when they announced he was in paradise, I was like, that means he's not the bachelor. Sammi: And that's good. Sammi: Yeah, because that wouldn't be interesting unless they gave him his own camera. Sammi: Because I do think his insecurities would be interesting to watch. Sammi: His internal monologue would be interesting to watch. Sammi: But now we get the time with Charity's family and Joey is first. Sammi: And Joey had a terrible hometown date. Sammi: I mean, it wasn't like the worst hometown date, but it was just like awkward and lacking and he had the worst out of the four. Steve: I shouldn't say it was a B minus. Steve: It was not like a colossal faceplant like in the past. Steve: And many a man has gotten farther or as far as Joey with a worse hometown, but it was not yeah, yeah. Sammi: It just was like, oh, wow. Sammi: And so of course, then, so what's interesting is what I'm trying to say is Joey's hometown date was not very good. Sammi: But with Charity's family, it was like, he's the one and he's the best one, and don't let him slip away. Sammi: He's perfect. Sammi: And then, you know, Dalton's hometown, it was like, you are our family now. Sammi: You are stuck with us. Sammi: You two are soulmates. Sammi: This is happening. Sammi: And then yeah, it's like I can't really talk about this without comparing these right away. Sammi: But then Dalton's time with Charity's family was just kind of like I don't know, I mean like he's fine or whatever. Sammi: He's just familiar and he's just kind of like who she always goes for. Steve: And that's interesting too. Sammi: We want to see her shake it up a little bit. Sammi: And I was like, is this really the time to be like rolling the dice? Sammi: I don't know, it was just kind of a weird yeah, anyway just try. Steve: To commit to marriage. Steve: Yeah right. Steve: But like I don't like I like Joey. Steve: I don't think he's particularly interesting but he's a very nice young man. Sammi: I think he's very sweet. Steve: Yeah, but the thing that really stuck out to me, Dotton also very sweet guy. Sammi: Oh yeah. Steve: But when Charity was know, both these guys meet with her parents and they like both of them but they like Joey Moore. Steve: And her mom made the comment that Dotton was kind of like the guy she had dated in the past. Steve: Which is weird because she said that about Xavier. Steve: And I feel like in my head, aside from them being like African American men in their mid to late twenty s, I don't see a lot of similarities between Xavier. Sammi: They're very different I will say. Sammi: I mean they both have interest in the health fields. Sammi: I guess that would be a commonality but Dotton's coming at it from more of a coachee integrative health personal trainer. Steve: And that kind of an interest. Steve: It doesn't really inform their vibes or their personality. Sammi: Personalities are very different. Sammi: But that's the only other thing that at least what I could see. Sammi: They have that in common. Sammi: But Xavier's in a lab and datten's more like with so that's very mean. Sammi: Like their families were pretty mean. Sammi: I just don't get the think and maybe I could be wrong. Sammi: I don't feel like dunn's one of those go out with the boys kind of guys like oh well, if I'm out with my boys and something like I just would be surprised if he but I was surprised when Xavier said it, so who the h*** knows. Sammi: But I just don't get that feeling from him that that's something that's super important to him to be out with a bunch of toxic dudes. Sammi: I don't that's but it could just be know a first impression thing where it's like oh, this seems similar or whatever because Joey is so different that it's just like that's the only way she could compare it. Sammi: I have no like it's like who knows? Sammi: But I think they're both really good dudes. Sammi: But it was interesting and even though it's like I know what happens with production and editing and how they choose the stuff and whatever but still even though I know all that and I've been watching this show for 20 plus years, I was still like, oh, no, this is not good. Sammi: And I was like, maybe Danton's not as good as I thought he was. Sammi: Because also last week we were thrown for a loop. Sammi: So I was like, oh, maybe all the things that I was feeling about how good they were together are wrong. Sammi: And then they, of course, did stuff where it's like she's saying I love you to Joey, and then Dotton says I love you to her and she doesn't say it back, and you're like, oh, God. Sammi: Oh, no, what's happening? Sammi: This is so bad. Steve: I like a season designed around just, like, emotionally messing with basically well, that's how I felt. Sammi: I was like, what is going on? Sammi: And it's like, late at night and I'm tired and I'm watching this episode and I'm like, what is happening? Sammi: And then, yeah, gosh. Sammi: I don't mean I will say because I feel like the other thing that Charity's mom seemed to focus on was just like, how Joey is just googly eyed all the time. Sammi: But I feel like his I don't think he would ever be like, he is affectionate and whatever, but he's more like, I don't know, kind of secure and solid and whatever. Sammi: So I think the way they just look at someone they're interested in is different. Sammi: But anyway, it was an interesting juxtaposition, and I wrote wow a lot on my notes, apparently. Sammi: I'm like, wow, family thinks he's the one. Steve: Wow. Sammi: Okay. Sammi: And then this whole thing is, like, interspersed with this whole oh, well, one of you is going to date the bachelor, but you don't know which one of you it is. Sammi: But we invited you all here, so it's one of the people we invited here. Sammi: It's obviously not going to be some random person from the audience. Steve: Yeah. Sammi: And I was like, everybody stand up if you would like to date the Bachelor, like, what the h***? Sammi: This is not how this works. Sammi: And he interviews all these people. Sammi: This was one thing that I thought was weird, and I was trying to find some conversation about it online, and I could not because they had someone from Oahu get interviewed. Sammi: Right. Sammi: And Joey lives in Hawaii and everything and everything that happened in Lahaina. Sammi: Which happened in my family's neighborhood. Sammi: And luckily their house is still okay, but I don't know if they even know if some of their friends are alive. Sammi: It was very strange that they didn't did I miss it? Sammi: Because I'm like, I was tired and I did not watch this live. Sammi: They didn't say anything about what happened in Lahaina. Sammi: Did they? Sammi: I mean, I know it's a different island, but a lot of people got moved to, um, for safety and because of capacity and all that stuff. Sammi: And I was like, this is strange. Sammi: This is live. Sammi: So this already happened. Steve: Yeah. Steve: That you'd think that they would make some mention of it. Steve: Now, it was really entirely possible that I got up to get another slice of pizza or grab a drink or go to the bathroom or whatever. Steve: I have zero recollection of them saying anything. Steve: So if they said it, it wasn't a prominent point in the episode. Sammi: It was just weird that they focused so much on Oahu and where Joey's living, right? Sammi: Like, it's just so strange. Sammi: And I'm confused that they didn't mention anything. Sammi: And I feel like they've gotten better about stuff like that, where it's like, oh, this is something, even if the conversation is a little put on, where they're like, we're going to have a serious talk, and then they kind of talk about something, then they're like, we're glad we had this serious talk. Sammi: But I was like, this is weird that you're focusing extra on it, that you're bringing in somebody to be on the show who lives on Oahu, and then you don't bring it. Sammi: I don't know. Sammi: Anyway, if anybody else feels the same way, let me know. Sammi: But I thought that was OD. Sammi: That's all. Sammi: Totally. Sammi: Not that I think The Bachelor is great for that stuff in general, but it's like if you want to start changing your image and gearing towards a younger audience, you might want to, I don't know, be in touch with reality anyway, especially something like that, where it's. Steve: Like the thing dominating the news cycle. Steve: It's like, hey, you want an easy layup? Steve: Guys just say anything? Steve: Apparently not. Sammi: Oh, well, yeah, it's just really strange. Sammi: Anyway, I'll let you know if I find any conversations about it. Sammi: But I was, like, trying to Google it. Sammi: I was like, is anybody else frustrated about this? Sammi: But I didn't see anything. Sammi: But I also wasn't looking super duper hard. Sammi: I was looking half. Sammi: So charity's, mom. Sammi: Okay, so with datten yes. Sammi: She's like, he checks the boxes, right? Sammi: He's familiar. Sammi: Familiar is easy. Sammi: She wants Charity to have a hard time, I guess I don't. Sammi: And I wrote, well, maybe Joey Winston dotten's the obvious Bachelor, but that wouldn't necessarily make sense. Sammi: Dot, dot, dot. Sammi: I'm like, this is where I start to question myself. Sammi: Yeah, and Charity is having a hard time, too, because she's like, I just want to push. Sammi: I just want a little just a little nudge and like, a direct just tell me how you're feeling. Sammi: And, okay, this is the part where I felt like I was getting tired and I was getting confused, but I know at the very least, she asked her mom, tell me what you think. Sammi: And her mom's like, I'm not going to do that. Sammi: And she's like, why? Sammi: And she's like, I don't know. Sammi: I'm direct. Sammi: And she's like, but you're not being direct right now. Sammi: That's what I gathered out of it. Sammi: It was like her mom was like, well, you know, I'm direct, but I'm not going to do that for you at this moment. Steve: Yeah. Sammi: And she's like, don't you know what you want? Sammi: And Charity is like, no, that's why I am asking you. Sammi: And she's like, come on, you know. Sammi: Right. Sammi: You know, you know, she's like and then yeah. Sammi: So she goes so she's confused, whatever. Sammi: She has a date with Joey and he brought a very cute gift for Charity. Sammi: They both did a good job with the gifts. Sammi: And he gives her the poem that they got in New Orleans and that's very oh, she mentioned how the poem made the hairs on her arms stand up and they made the hairs on my arm stand up too. Sammi: So whoever's putting this season together, good job. Sammi: I was like, wow. Sammi: And then I was fully sold on at this point. Sammi: I was like, well, if Joey ends up with Charity, I'm okay with that. Sammi: That's good, I'm happy, that's fine. Steve: This is totally mission accomplished, right? Steve: What is the purpose of this episode? Steve: The purpose of this episode is twofold. Steve: One, to make us question what we know to be absolute reality, which is down, it's going to win. Steve: And two, to make us like Joey as much as humanly possible and potentially make him slightly more interesting than he is. Steve: So that when he is announced as the bachelor, we go, okay, I'm fine with that. Steve: I think they pretty much did it. Steve: And honestly, I don't know when Charity was announced. Steve: I'm sure you can go back to an old episode. Steve: I'll just be like, I don't know, no personality, didn't see anything, whatever. Steve: And she's amazing. Steve: She's like the greatest Bachelorete of all time, practically. Steve: Maybe, maybe this will work out. Steve: Maybe I've been selling Joey short. Sammi: Yeah, I mean that's what always I mean outside of like I feel like I always liked Katie before it was Katie's season, you know what mean? Sammi: Like that was kind of an obvious, like Ashley long time. Sammi: Like there's a few people that and I liked, you know, there's like a few people that I was always like, oh yeah, they're going to be good. Sammi: But there's some people we didn't see until the very end. Sammi: Their know, you get like little glimpses of, um, yeah, I think Joey could definitely be a good mean out of what happened. Sammi: Like everything that happened at the end, I was like, well, he's the only obvious choice. Sammi: Like if you don't choose him, you're going into a different season. Sammi: There's no way. Sammi: And anyway, I'm just like looking through the vulture recap to see if there's anything yeah, if there's any notes in there because I just saw something. Sammi: Sorry. Sammi: We're waiting to see if she's going to pick Joey or Don. Sammi: Right. Sammi: We obviously know what uh, and then we get into the then. Sammi: So Brooklyn and Kat are going to be in paradise and Braden's in the audience and they do this paradise promo and they're like four former bachelorettes are crashing the party. Sammi: There's a medical emergency I'm actually really excited about the nine days of no pooping. Steve: Yeah. Steve: I'm also excited about that because we got to hear the word poop baby. Sammi: On national television and a truth box. Sammi: I'm like, all right, okay, cool. Sammi: This sounds great. Sammi: And then there's someone getting married in paradise, and it's probably like an already engaged couple that comes down, like, has happened before, I would assume. Sammi: And then they're like, oh, are Rachel and Brayden going to get together? Sammi: And I got very upset. Sammi: Oh, my God, you better not. Sammi: That sucks. Sammi: And I was looking through this Vulture recap. Sammi: It says, Brayden is here sitting right next to Rachel rechia. Sammi: Get a job. Sammi: Stay away from her et. Sammi: Wait, hold on. Sammi: Wait, what? Sammi: Hold on 1 second. Sammi: Oh, my gosh. Sammi: How did I not know who Gabby was dating? Steve: Oh, yeah, so oh, my is this is something that I was hoping to bring up? Steve: Because I guess I'm dense and I didn't really understand or process or notice it, but it's like, oh, Gabby's dating a woman. Steve: I didn't know that. Sammi: H***. Sammi: Yeah. Sammi: Gabby. Steve: Good job, Gabby. Sammi: Yes. Steve: We love I had I had no idea. Steve: And then I was just like, who's that? Steve: I was, oh, that's so cute. Sammi: And she even posted, told you I'm a girls girl. Sammi: Yes. Sammi: Gabby ayo so that's awesome. Sammi: And now I want to rewatch the finale because I was tired and I did not even oh, apparently. Sammi: Okay, so she was on The View, and in an Instagram post yeah. Sammi: She wrote, told you I'm a girls girl. Sammi: And yeah. Sammi: So it's Robbie Hoffman. Steve: He's a comedian, right? Sammi: Yes. Sammi: Comedians. Sammi: You should know, apparently. Sammi: And yeah, this was announced on August 2, but I didn't see it because I don't pay attention to this stuff. Sammi: But that's super great. Sammi: And yeah, I'm so happy. Sammi: So one of the things that this Vulture article talks about is, uh, they wanted to see, like, a Robbie cam the whole time, mic her up and then let's the whole the whole gimmick of, like, who's the bachelor and who's going to date him. Sammi: And also, maybe Rachel likes Braden. Sammi: I was like, I can't handle all this stuff right now, okay? Sammi: I'm tired, and I want to know what's in that truth box, and I want to talk more about that poop baby. Sammi: Those are the things I want to talk about. Steve: Yeah. Steve: Very interested in a poop baby. Sammi: Yeah. Sammi: And then we find out. Sammi: September 20. Sammi: Eigth. Sammi: We're going to be playing double duty, so I don't know what we're going to do. Sammi: We'll have to see if we want to do extra long episodes or two separate Bachelor in paradise and Golden Bachelor episodes. Steve: We're going to figure it out. Sammi: We'll have to figure it out. Sammi: Stay tuned. Sammi: I'm thinking we'll do each one because some people might be interested in one and not the other. Sammi: Otherwise, we'll do, like, a little time stampy in the description. Sammi: So stay tuned for that, obviously. Sammi: Let's see. Sammi: Okay, so we have the last date with Don, and he's so sweet, and it was so cute, and he was like, I'm going to win over your mom. Sammi: Just don't even worry about it. Sammi: And it's like, he's a great guy. Sammi: He can definitely win over moms, so I totally believe that. Sammi: And his gift was very cute. Sammi: He was like, I made a treasure hunt, so how about that? Sammi: And I was like, that's pretty cute. Sammi: And he was like, here's my card, my resident alien card, like the s'mores and little memories of events that they did on their dates. Sammi: And then at the end, it was a locket with their baby faces. Sammi: And he's like, you are my treasure. Sammi: And that was very then. Sammi: But the thing that's weird is we see her. Sammi: Yeah, they really freaking tricked me because she's, like, bringing up Joey on this date, and he says, I love you, and she doesn't say it back. Sammi: And I was like, okay. Sammi: Then we get the Neil Lane scene, which wasn't like, that excessive this time. Sammi: Sometimes it's like, really long Neil Lane stuff. Steve: It's always weird to me because I feel like sometimes we get a lot of Neil Lane the man, and not just Neil Lane, the know, and other times you don't see Neil at. Steve: And this this was a Neil appearance season. Sammi: Yeah, it was a Neil appearance, but it was not as major. Sammi: I mean, usually I would say with The Bachelor, Neil is around more, but he was in the audience. Steve: It's just so funny to me because I'm sure in the jewelry world, he's a big deal, but if you're like, who's Neil Lane? Steve: I'm like, oh, that's the guy who gives the rings on The Bachelor. Sammi: I actually think that is the biggest deal. Sammi: Well, I think but I don't know. Sammi: Let's see if we can figure this out. Sammi: Hold on. Sammi: I feel like I looked this up before, and it was kind of like I thought that that was kind of the biggest thing. Sammi: I thought his name recognition did get bigger because of The Bachelor, and that propelled some of his career. Sammi: Oh, here we go. Sammi: Here we go. Sammi: Okay. Sammi: Reddit is all over. Steve: Always. Sammi: Yeah. Sammi: But yeah, okay. Sammi: Apparently oh, interesting. Sammi: He turned them down for a while, and he doesn't watch The Bachelor, which I think we found out recently that he didn't watch The Bachelor, which I think is very funny. Sammi: So it's like his only frame of reference is getting flown in for these moments and these live appearances, and that's it. Sammi: And he doesn't watch the show. Sammi: That's kind of awesome. Sammi: Yeah. Sammi: So someone said, okay, yeah, I think it's kind of like a Vera Wang type of thing at this point, you. Steve: Know what I mean? Sammi: Where it's like there is a prestige brand and then you can also go to Kohl's. Steve: Exactly. Sammi: You know what I mean? Sammi: I think it was kind of like and yeah, someone said, I went into Kate and his rings are ugly. Sammi: Lol. Sammi: I'm sorry. Sammi: Yeah, it's like, if you're going to get Neil Lane from K, I would assume that that's not the same as the other stuff he yeah, yeah. Steve: I would imagine he's got his higher tier stuff. Steve: I like the Vera Wang comparison. Sammi: That's the way I kind of always thought about Neil Lane. Sammi: And from these comments on Reddit, that's the impression I'm getting. Sammi: As I say about Kay, every kiss begins at the mall. Sammi: Yeah. Sammi: And apparently oh, gosh, I didn't even realize that. Sammi: So this was like 2009. Sammi: Neil Lane feels so omnipresent that I did not realize it's only been Neil Lane for like, 14 years. Steve: Wow. Sammi: Yeah. Steve: Before that he was day one guy. Sammi: I know. Sammi: Before that it was Harry Winston. Sammi: Sorry. Sammi: There's a comment on Reddit that says, in the industry, neil Lane is considered to be a little goblin character. Sammi: And someone said, how so? Sammi: And then there's like some deleted stuff, so I don't know about that. Sammi: Anyway, yeah, someone said, okay, yeah. Sammi: Neil Lane for Celebs is high end. Sammi: Neil Lane at K is mediocre. Sammi: Yeah, same as Verawing. Sammi: I would yeah. Sammi: Very interesting. Sammi: He used to design customs for A list celebrities like Barbara Streisand, Elizabeth Taylor, and Angelina Jolie. Sammi: Interesting. Sammi: He's like mid tier, they say. Steve: Oh, man. Steve: You hear that? Steve: Neil Lane. Steve: You're just mid, baby. Sammi: You're mid. Sammi: You're mid, Neil. Sammi: Well, he's never going to listen to this. Sammi: He doesn't watch the show. Sammi: He's not going to listen to a random sorry, Neil, but yeah. Sammi: So very interesting. Sammi: Yeah. Sammi: So we had a Neil Lane scene, and then Charity comes out in her dress and I started tearing up. Sammi: So again, I was tired, but I don't know, this finale really did a number on me. Sammi: And then she started to cry or almost cried. Sammi: And I was like, don't cry. Sammi: Your makeup's so pretty. Sammi: And then as soon as Joey gets out of the car, my stomach dropped and so do the audiences. Sammi: And I was like, you tricked me. Sammi: You tricked me, you tricked me. Sammi: And I was like, well, he's going to be a great bachelor. Sammi: And I cried so much during this whole interaction. Sammi: It was awful. Sammi: I was like, not okay. Steve: So emotion. Sammi: Yeah. Sammi: The dogs came over. Sammi: They were like, do you need some support? Sammi: And I was like, I am not. Sammi: And like, Tuck was sleeping, obviously. Sammi: Well, this was like yeah, because this was in the morning by the time I watched this. Sammi: But he was like, in the other room with the dogs, and I'm like, crying. Sammi: And they come over and they're like, what do you need, mom? Sammi: And I was like, I am just not okay. Sammi: But what was really sweet was she did not cut him off, which was nice because I feel like a lot of the times the bacheloretes cut the men off. Sammi: Don't propose yet, but he kind of waited for a second anyway, like, should I keep going? Sammi: And then she did a little I thought it was nice that she had a speech for him because I don't feel like they always do that or it doesn't feel prepared or whatever. Sammi: And he was just like, It's okay. Sammi: He knew it was hard, and she's trying to get all this out, and she's upset. Sammi: And he was like, It's okay. Sammi: And she's like, Well, I got to do this. Sammi: I want to do the whole thing. Sammi: I want you to hear this whole thing. Sammi: It's important to me. Sammi: And then she's like, I found love that's deeper with someone else, and I'm crying. Sammi: I think she wins for the best goodbye speech ever to yeah, I was just, like, a f** mess. Sammi: And then Joey's in the audience, and then he gives the best bachelor audition in the car, and the audience is silent, and I'm just is really this is really great. Sammi: I don't know. Sammi: That whole moment was really awesome. Sammi: And then Zach's in the right, so, like, they go through this whole thing. Sammi: Like, Joey leaves, he's in the car, whatever, and at some point they pan to Zach, and I'm like, God, both of these guys are so much better than Zach. Sammi: And so really, there wasn't a bad direction for her to go, I don't think. Sammi: It's like she's just got to decide how she feels, and she's got to make that choice, which is always nice. Steve: Too, because sometimes I'm like, no, not him, and this time you're good. Steve: Anybody's fine. Steve: Well, not Aaron. Steve: And even Aaron. Steve: There's nothing wrong with him. Sammi: With Aaron. Sammi: If she liked Aaron the most, I'd be like, that's fine. Steve: That's okay. Steve: Some people have no taste, but that's all you. Steve: You do. Steve: You it's not harmful. Sammi: That just reminded me of I don't know why. Sammi: I'm, like, thinking about classic York. Sammi: Like, even Louis Vuitton makes so Joey is going to see Charity now. Sammi: He gives his little spiel with Jessie. Sammi: It's like all kind of the normal the. Sammi: I've done a lot of thinking and healing, and I'm on the other side, and I understand, and I just love and support her, and I just want her to be happy and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Sammi: And this is, like one of the most amicable reuniting moments, too, that I remember on the show, where it's just like, she looks sparkly and beautiful, and he's, like, giving her the biggest hug, and it was really sweet. Sammi: And he's still kind of, you can tell, emotional about it. Sammi: He's getting all twisty faced about it. Sammi: He's like, AW, shucks OD golly g whiz whatever. Sammi: They made him very likable. Sammi: They did a really good job because I was, like, a mess, and it was good, and then it's like, okay, now it's time for Dotton. Sammi: And I was so emotional about the Joey thing. Sammi: I was just kind of like, well, I knew this was going to happen, they tricked me, now I feel indignant and this all turned out just fine. Sammi: I think what it is, is they are both very comfortable with each other and that's like what you need for a normal relationship. Sammi: You should feel very comfortable with each other. Sammi: And so I think the familiarity is good here. Sammi: And it didn't feel like this with her and Joey. Sammi: I feel like it's a little more I don't know, there was more chemistry and an explosive exciting way. Sammi: But with her and Datten, it just feels very safe and comfortable in a very good way. Sammi: That's important. Steve: Yeah, she made the right call and it's the difference between maybe a sprint and a marathon here. Steve: And it's not to say that both these men would have provided her with plenty of happiness, but I think Datten is probably the better choice for something that you see as a long term relationship. Steve: And Charity was super smart about it and she dumped Joey in the best way possible. Steve: I don't know how she does it. Steve: It exceeds even the abilities of the editing on The Bachelor and the just she's got it down. Sammi: She handled everything perfectly the whole season. Sammi: I feel like we've watched so many seasons of Bachelors and Bacheloretes kind of like step in it and yeah, not a single flub. Sammi: Perfect season. Steve: It's kind of mind boggling, too, because it can be so stressful and emotional and god, breakups are f** messy. Steve: They're so messy. Steve: And the fact that she was able to not only every single guy leading up to Joey and those are probably easier because some of those guys were you get you get down to Joey who is a man that you could probably marry and probably be pretty happy with and to just let him down like that, it was like a master class. Steve: It was incredible. Steve: Never seen anything like ten out of ten. Sammi: Charity, yeah, she's extremely emotionally mature. Sammi: This is obvious, we know this. Sammi: And yeah, she did awesome. Sammi: Chef's kiss. Sammi: What a great season. Sammi: Very happy about it. Sammi: I thought it was really cute at the end that they showed that she was standing on a box. Sammi: I thought that was adorable. Sammi: I love little behind the scenes things like that. Sammi: And she's like, yeah, love just makes you so happy. Sammi: You get taller and then they just show the box. Sammi: I was like, that's adorable. Sammi: They're just very cute together. Sammi: And yeah, he can keep her safe from lizards or whatever. Sammi: It's good. Sammi: And his family is like, that's like winning the Jackpot. Sammi: They're a really cool family. Sammi: That's one of the best families I've ever seen be on the show. Sammi: And his mom being someone who's really hard to win over and going, yeah, you're my family now. Sammi: And Grandma being like, these two are joined at the soul, or whatever the h*** she said. Sammi: I'm like, yeah, I mean, I just feel like you can't get better than that. Sammi: As long as you like the family and you like him, you're in. Sammi: That's very easy. Sammi: Then some life coach started talking, and I was like, oh, god, I need food. Sammi: I need breakfast, because it was late in the day, and I just did not want to hear this. Sammi: Life coach chuck. Sammi: And then this was like one of the people. Sammi: I was like, are you going to date the bears? Sammi: And then mom we get to see charity's mom, and they're like, okay, how are you feeling? Sammi: She's like, I'm happy now. Sammi: Yeah, he's good. Sammi: I like him. Sammi: He's pretty good. Sammi: Or was. Sammi: She wasn't like, oh, my god, he's the like, yeah, I really like him. Sammi: I think at some point and again, I was tired. Sammi: Didn't we see Danton's family and his mom in the audience getting emotional over everything? Steve: I thought this audience was they were put through the wringer. Steve: I'm pretty sure they were there, too, but yeah, everyone was super emotion, including datten's people. Sammi: I was so emotional, I just stopped paying attention. Sammi: Yeah, it was so then and then she shows off her find that, personally, this is just personal. Sammi: I find the rings kind of boring. Sammi: They're just like one big rock. Sammi: Okay. Sammi: But I'm glad she likes it. Sammi: Okay. Sammi: This was interesting. Sammi: Do you think they're going to shoot the golden bachelor different the whole time? Sammi: Do you think the style of shooting is going to be different? Sammi: Because did you notice how soft they made it and the camera work was all different. Sammi: Is it just for the promo, you think, or what do you think? Steve: I think that is just for the promo, but it definitely has a softer, different look to it. Steve: It's almost like soap opera esque in its presentation, which I guess is appropriate. Steve: It is somewhat reminiscent of very early seasons of the bachelor. Steve: So if you go back to the first three seasons yeah. Sammi: Where it's like a little more like romanticy. Steve: Yeah. Steve: And I don't know if that is intentional or if I'm just like my brain has been permanently poisoned by watching the show for so many years. Steve: But I think based on the previews alone, it looks like it's going to have a slightly different aesthetic, and I am perfectly fine and open with that. Steve: Because if there's one thing that you can criticize about the Bachelor and honestly don't make it one thing, make it a million things, because there's plenty. Steve: But if there's one thing you can consistently criticize, is that they recycle the same ideas and visual cues and everything over and over and over and over again, so anything that can push them out of their comfort zone. Steve: And I do think that old people are going to help with this because, oh, my god, the kinds of problems and emotional issues and things that they're going to have to deal with are going to be totally different from the normal crap that comes up on the bachelor to bachelorette. Steve: And when it's not different, when it's like, oh, and so and so has an 80 year old husband back home, that's going to be even funnier and crazier, so bring it on. Steve: I'm here for it, whatever it is. Sammi: So and so has an 80 year old husband back home. Sammi: I like that idea. Sammi: Yeah. Sammi: I'm kind of wondering if it's going to be messy in any way or if it is just going to be kind of like sweet and sentimental the whole time. Steve: I hope not. Sammi: I know you hope not, but I'm just kind of like not totally sure anymore. Sammi: Yeah. Sammi: I'm interested to see what happens. Sammi: We don't have to wait super long. Sammi: We've got about a month and you'll hear from us at least one time in between then. Sammi: Do you think they're going to let the dog stay with him? Sammi: Because that dog is obsessed. Sammi: That was the cutest dog. Sammi: Oh, my god, don't tell me. Steve: In my heart, yes, but in reality, I think they're probably going to have. Sammi: To say no because who had their dog? Sammi: One of the bachelorettes, right. Sammi: Had their dog with them or bachelors. Steve: It just seems like a nightmare, like all the traveling they do and it's just stressful for the dog, too. Sammi: I think it was just domestic. Sammi: Do you remember wait, hold on. Sammi: Okay, let's see. Sammi: Golly, I don't remember. Sammi: There was one now. Sammi: I just found the rambo thing, but yeah, there was one where it was like, oh, my dog came with me. Sammi: Do you remember talking about anyway, whatever. Steve: Well, rachel lindsay's dog cooper appeared alongside her on the Bachelorete season 13. Sammi: I just tried to that's what it was. Sammi: Okay. Sammi: God, I mean, so much happened on rachel's season. Sammi: I forgot it was yeah. Sammi: Oh, my gosh. Steve: I had tried to forget rambo dog guy, but unfortunately rambo dog guy has now been brought back into my memory bank. Steve: So thank you, Sammi. Sammi: Yeah, I think it was just local, right? Sammi: It was just like when they were in the states, the dog was there, so I was just like, maybe that would be a thing that would happen again. Sammi: Because that was very cute and I really liked that. Sammi: That's all. Sammi: And then, okay, so there's no set date. Sammi: So we see charity and Dotton and of mean, I don't think there's ever at least I don't remember in the history of the show them being like, oh, and it's probably, are joe and serena married yet? Sammi: Because otherwise they'll be the ones I. Steve: Don'T know if they're married, but they did a commercial for concealer or something together. Sammi: They've been doing that a lot. Sammi: Yeah. Sammi: Mark my words, they're going to be the couple in paradise that gets married. Steve: It seems. Steve: So their star is rising. Steve: Grocery store joe is the international commercial superstar. Steve: Honestly, grocery store joe, you're acting in these commercials. Steve: You got speaking lines. Steve: Are you SAG brother? Steve: Like, should you be on the picket line? Steve: Maybe, I don't know. Sammi: Oh, interesting. Sammi: Didn't think about that. Sammi: Anyway, so yeah, I think they're going to get married in paradise. Sammi: That's my I don't I can't remember any time where they're like, oh, yeah, we have a set know. Sammi: But they're like, we're enjoying the season of our she's going they're going to Greece. Sammi: She's always wanted to go to Greece. Sammi: And so she's going to get to go to Greece, which is sweet. Sammi: And then she's also going to be on Dancing with the Stars, which is like not shocking but cool. Sammi: And then Joey gets announced as the new bachelor and we kind of knew that. Sammi: And the first woman that we meet who lives on Oahu or well, she moved to La. Sammi: But she's from Oahu. Sammi: She's joining Joey. Sammi: And then yeah, so they're excited. Sammi: But then she gets an envelope. Sammi: It's not a date card, but we don't know what it is until night one. Sammi: And that's as much surprise as they can know because Jesse is like, well, you've never seen anything like this. Sammi: And I'm like, this is like a pretty normal season. Sammi: But you were like, we're going to give you a trip so we can say it was a surprise. Sammi: We're not going to tell you about Dancing with the Stars until here. Sammi: So it's a surprise. Sammi: Charity has got to be getting tired of surprises at this point because they also surprise her with a Bachelorete. Steve: Remember that's the theme for her series. Sammi: She's like, okay, here it goes. Steve: Boys under pressure. Steve: The charity story. Sammi: Yeah. Sammi: I mean, for real. Sammi: She's like always handles surprises well but I don't know if she actually likes them. Sammi: We'll see. Sammi: Okay, let's see. Sammi: I'm looking through to see if there's anything else I missed. Sammi: That was kind of the big stuff. Sammi: I don't feel like there was just not a lot to say. Sammi: Somehow we filled 45 minutes, but there wasn't a lot to say about this episode except I cried a lot and it was good. Sammi: And I'm excited for the Golden Bachelor. Sammi: I'm excited for Bachelor in paradise and I'm excited for Joey being the bachelor. Sammi: And that's fun because when's the last time I got excited about a bachelor? Sammi: I don't know. Sammi: It's been a really long time. Steve: Yeah, it's been a while. Steve: But yeah. Steve: Kudos to production for, again, taking a foregone conclusion, making it dramatic and selling me on someone that I thought was fine but boring. Steve: So just high marks all around. Steve: Charity's great. Steve: Everything's great. Steve: Sammi stayed up too late, got super emotional. Steve: It's okay. Steve: Nothing wrong with that. Steve: There's nothing wrong with it. Sammi: I'm excited all of you. Sammi: I did it for all of you. Sammi: And then we got home last night at like 10:00 and I mentioned this off recording. Sammi: We played pinball until I don't know. Sammi: This is a problem. Sammi: We played pinball until bar closed and so, yeah, my mind's kind of fresh, but I'm just coming off vacation, so if I repeated myself a lot, you knew what you were getting into. Sammi: Okay. Sammi: You knew what this was also. Sammi: You're welcome. Sammi: I hope you got your dishes done or got to your workplace or cleaned your office or whatever it is you're doing right now. Sammi: And I'm so excited. Sammi: Yeah. Sammi: The jilly box has made it through customs. Sammi: It should be here in a day or two. Sammi: And the grand reveal is coming soon, so you'll get to enjoy that shortly. Sammi: And it'll be a nice break. Sammi: Hopefully we can get it done before school starts. Sammi: And then once I'm in the swing of things for school, we'll have the golden bachelor and bachelor in paradise to record. Steve: Love. Sammi: It's going to be great. Sammi: It's going to be great. Sammi: If you want to see my slow decline into madness, come back on or before the last week of September, and I'm sure that's what you're going to get to see. Steve: That's right. Steve: We're making q four. Steve: Every month of Q four is mental health awareness month on our podcast. Sammi: It's going to be like, why did I decide to do biostatistics and biochemistry in the same semester? Sammi: Why? Sammi: Anyway, so take care of yourselves, friends. Sammi: Take care of each other if you haven't had a chance. Sammi: I mean, we are in the last moments of summer. Sammi: I know a lot of us had a heat wave recently. Sammi: At least here it's broken. Sammi: Make sure you're getting outside. Sammi: Enjoy that weather. Sammi: Go for a nice long walk. Sammi: That's what I'm about to do when I get off of here and make jam as well. Sammi: And, yeah, just enjoy those last moments that you have before it gets cold and dark, if you're in a part of the world where that happens. Steve: Yeah. Steve: And you know what? Steve: I'm going down to the lake as soon as this call is done. Steve: I'm going to walk around. Steve: I'm going to probably eat a snack. Steve: I'm going to watch the sunset. Steve: It's going to be beautiful. Steve: You know what I'm not going to do? Steve: I'm not going to do needle drugs, because you shouldn't do needle drugs. Steve: Don't do needle drugs. Steve: You got to hit them with the triple because they going to hear from us for a little while. Sammi: We'll be back with a jilly box. Steve: And a double bachelor experience. Steve: Oh, lordy.

On this week's show, Adam Leventhal posed questions from Hacker News (mostly) to Oxide founders Bryan Cantrill and Steve Tuck. Stick around until the end to hear about the hardest parts of building Oxide--great, surprising answers from both Bryan and Steve.They were also joined by Steve Klabnik.Questions for Steve and Bryan:[@6:38] Q:Congrats to the team, but after hearing about Oxide for literal years since the beginning of the company and repeatedly reading different iterations of their landing page, I still don't know what their product actually is. It's a hypervisor host? Maybe? So I can host VMs on it? And a network switch? So I can....switch stuff? (*)A:Steve: A rack-scale computer; "A product that allows the rest of the market that runs on-premises IT access to cloud computing."Bryan: agrees[@8:46] Q:It's like an on prem AWS for devs. I don't understand the use case but the hardware is cool. (*)I didn't understand the business opportunity of Oxide at all. Didn't make sense to me.However if they're aiming at the companies parachuting out of the cloud back to data centers and on prem then it makes a lot of sense.It's possible that the price comparison is not with comparable computing devices, but simply with the 9 cents per gigabyte egress fee from major clouds. (*)A:Bryan: "Elastic infrastructure is great and shouldn't be cloistered to the public cloud"; Good reasons to run on-prem: compliance, security, risk management, latency, economics; "Once you get to a certain size, it really makes sense to own"Steve: As more things move onto the internet, need for on-prem is going to grow; you should have the freedom to own[@13:31] Q:Somebody help me understand the business value. All the tech is cool but I don't get the business model, it seems deeply impractical. You buy your own servers instead of renting, which is what most people are doing now. They argue there's a case for this, but it seems like a shrinking market. Everything has gone cloud. Even if there are lots of people who want to leave the cloud, all their data is there. That's how they get you -- it costs nothing to bring data in and a lot to transfer it out. So high cost to switch. AWS and others provide tons of other services in their clouds, which if you depend on you'll have to build out on top of Oxide. So even higher cost to switch. Even though you bought your own servers, you still have to run everything inside VMs, which introduce the sort of issues you would hope to avoid by buying your own servers! Why is this? Because they're building everything on Illumos (Solaris) which is for all practical purposes is dead outside Oxide and delivering questionable value here. Based on blogs/twitter/mastodon they have put a lot of effort into perfecting these weird EE side quests, but they're not making real new hardware (no new CPU, no new fabric, etc). I am skeptical any customers will notice or care and would have not noticed had they used off the shelf hardware/power setups. So you have to be this ultra-bizarre customer, somebody who wants their own servers, but doesn't mind VMs, doesn't need to migrate out of the cloud but wants this instead of whatever hardware they manage themselves now, who will buy a rack at a time, who doesn't need any custom hardware, and is willing to put up with whatever off-the-beaten path difficulties are going to occur because of the custom stuff they've done that's AFAICT is very low value for the customer. Who is this? Even the poster child for needing on prem, the CIA is on AWS now.I don't get it, it just seems like a bunch of geeks playing with VC money?(*)A:Bryan: "EE side quests" rant; you can't build robust, elastic infrastructure on commodity hardware at scale; "The minimum viable product is really, really big"; Example: monitoring fan power draw, tweaking reference desgins doesn't cut it Example: eliminating redundant AC power suppliesSteve: "Feels like I'm dealing with my divorced parents" post[@32:24] Q (Chat):It would be nice to see what this thing is like before having to write a big checkSteve: We are striving to have lab infrastructure available for test drives[@32:56] Q (Chat):I want to know about shipping insurance, logistics, who does the install, ...Bryan: "Next week we'll be joined by the operations team" we want to have an indepth conversation about those topics[@34:40] Q:Seems like Oxide is aiming to be the Apple of the enterprise hardware (which isn't too surprising given the background of the people involved - Sun used to be something like that as were other fully-integrated providers, though granted that Sun didn't write Unix from scratch). Almost like coming to a full circle from the days where the hardware and the software was all done in an integrated fashion before Linux turned-up and started to run on your toaster. (*)A:Bryan: We find things to emulate in both Apple and Sun, e.g., integrated hard- and software; AS/400Steve: "It's not hardware and software together for integration sake", it's required to deliver what the customer wants; "You can't control that experience when you only do half the equation"[@42:38] Q:I truly and honestly hope you succeed. I know for certain that the market for on-prem will remain large for certain sectors for the forseeable future. However. The kind of customer who spends this type of money can be conservative. They already have to go with on an unknown vendor, and rely on unknown hardware. Then they end up with a hypervisor virtually no one else in the same market segment uses.Would you say that KVM or ESXi would be an easier or harder sell here?Innovation budget can be a useful concept. And I'm afraid it's being stretched a lot. (*)A:Bryan: We can deliver more value with our own hypervisor; we've had a lot of experience in that domain from Joyent. There are a lot of reasons that VMware et al. are not popular with their own customers; Intel vs. AMDSteve: "We think it's super important that we're very transparent with what we're building"[@56:05] Q:what is the interface I get when I turn this $$$ computer on? What is the zero to first value when I buy this hardware? (*)A:Steve: "You roll the rack in, you have to give it power, and you have give it networking [...] and you are then off on starting the software experience"; Large pool of infrastructure reosources for customers/devs/SREs/... in a day or less; Similar experience to public cloud providers[@01:02:06] Q:One of my concerns when buying a complete solution like an iPhone (or an Oxide rack

In this episode, Dan connects with Wall Street Journal bestselling author Steven Mark Kahan to discuss his latest book, High-Velocity Digital Marketing. An all-around digital marketing legend, during his career as CMO of several Silicon Valley startups, Steve helped engineer seven successful exits that generated an astounding $5 billion in shareholder value. He and Dan talk about how he managed to make it all happen - and it turns out, it's all about having the right plan.  Of course, the right plan is very, very thorough. Luckily, Steve (and his book) deliver exactly that. Over the course of their discussion, Dan and Steve take a deep dive into the elements of marketing, the importance of content, and just how critical it is to identify your audience correctly and speak to them in a way that resonates.  Listen in and... Discover powerful digital marketing techniques to skyrocket your online presence. Uncover the significance of grasping buyer personas for targeted campaigns. Explore the crucial role of consistent content creation in engaging customers. Learn the importance of data-driven marketing and evaluating success. Gain insights on choosing the best partners and agencies to boost your marketing efforts. Notable Quotes: “I found that the traditional path from school to climbing the corporate ladder at least for me, could not only be high-risk for my career, it could almost feel like a death trap.” – (2:59) - Steve “I asked myself a really important question and that question was, how can I earn a great living doing what I love?” – (4:14) – Steve “I've learned how to spot a startup that has a good chance for success versus one that doesn't.” – (6:47) – Steve ”I'm never concerned when I see that there's big competition in the market. I'm always concerned when I see that there's next to no competition in the market.” – (9:26) – Steve “You want to go to work everyday with a passion for the products the company creates as well as your role in creating it.” – (9:56) – Steve “I wouldn't want to take a job if I didn't align with the values of the company.” – (11:33) – Dan “You don't often lose business to a competitor as much as you lose it to the status quo.” – (25:33) - Steve “Never assume that the benefits a customer expresses, equates to impact.” – (31:28) – Steve “So many organizations don't train their sales or their partners on every single piece of content that they have.” - (42:54) – Steve “You need to turn your website into a lead magnet.” – (54:40) – Steve “If you get that content right and that is a big chunk of the battle.” – (1:11:00) – Steve  Key Moments: 00:00:00 - Introduction, 00:05:05 - Choosing a Startup, 00:12:33 - Importance of Stock Options, 00:17:23 - Digital Marketing Strategies, 00:28:50 - Importance of Agility, 00:15:57 - Lessons from a Failed Startup, 00:18:05 - Evaluating Startup Concepts, 00:22:30 - Understanding the Customer,  00:25:43 - Building Strong Value Propositions, 00:29:24 - Understanding Benefits vs. Impacts, 00:33:22 - Cybersecurity and Content Creation, 00:35:55 - Sincerity and Content Value, 00:45:03 - Content Stories and Sales Velocity, 00:48:12 - Managing Multifunctional Disarray, 00:51:37 - Importance of Metrics, 00:52:09 - The Martech Stack and Metrics, 00:54:08 - Practical Tips for Improving Lead Conversion Rates, 00:57:53 - The Importance of SEO and Google, 01:04:24 - Agency Selection and Scoring, 01:08:38 - Building Great Content, 01:10:56 - The Importance of Getting Content Right, 01:11:29 - The Future of Marketing, 01:14:16 - Recommendation for High-Velocity Digital Marketing,  About Steve Kahan Bestselling author Steven Mark Kahan has a formidable track record, successfully navigating seven startups to acquisition or IPO, amassing a total value exceeding $5 billion. A powerhouse in the world of startups, Steve is revered for his innovative digital marketing strategies that resulted in rapid revenue growth, market expansion, and robust returns for shareholders. In his most recent stint as CMO and Chief of Staff at Thycotic (now Delinea), he propelled the company to a remarkable $1.4B exit. His impact extends to other ventures like KnowledgeWare, PentaSafe, Postini, Quest Software, and The Planet. A past board member of Target Hunger, Steve channels his passion into philanthropic pursuits.  Steven Mark Kahan on LinkedIn Steve Kahan on Instagram Steve Kahan on Facebook Learn all about High-Velocity Digital Marketing - Be a Startup Superstar High-Velocity Digital Marketing: Silicon Valley Secrets to Create Breakthrough Revenue in Record Time on Amazon.com Dan Nestle Links The Dan Nestle Show (libsyn.com) Daniel Nestle | LinkedIn The Dan Nestle Show | Facebook Dan Nestle (@dsnestle) / Twitter   Timestamped summary of this episode (Generated by Capsho - and presented here unedited) 00:00:00 - Introduction,  Dan Nestle welcomes Steve Kahan, former CMO of cybersecurity firm, Thycotic and author of "High Velocity Digital Marketing" to discuss his journey in the startup world and important factors to consider before choosing a startup.   00:05:05 - Choosing a Startup,  Kahan shares four important attributes to look for when choosing a startup: quality people who share your values, a concept that fills a big market need, a great product you can get behind, and the startup being well-funded.   00:12:33 - Importance of Stock Options,  Kahan explains how stock options can be a game-changer for those looking to separate themselves financially. Working for a successful startup and seeing the value of those stock options grow can lead to significant financial gain.   00:17:23 - Digital Marketing Strategies,  Kahan discusses the importance of digital marketing strategies in building a successful startup, noting that they can be a cost-effective way to reach a large target audience. He breaks down some key strategies outlined in his book, "High Velocity Digital Marketing."   00:28:50 - Importance of Agility,  Kahan emphasizes the importance of agility in the startup world, noting that companies need to be able to pivot quickly and adapt to changing circumstances. He cites examples from his own experience helping startups navigate unexpected challenges.   00:15:57 - Lessons from a Failed Startup,  Steve shares his experience working for a startup in Japan that lacked differentiation in the market and eventually failed. He discusses the importance of identifying a unique product and positioning it effectively to stand out from competitors.   00:18:05 - Evaluating Startup Concepts,  Steve and Dan discuss evaluating startup concepts and identifying a must-solve problem for a specific audience. Steve shares his experience at Psychotic, where understanding the customer and crafting value propositions based on their needs led to significant growth and success.   00:22:30 - Understanding the Customer,  Steve emphasizes the importance of understanding the full context of the ideal target buyer's world and paying attention to their specific language. He shares his process of asking questions to customers and crafting value propositions that address the benefits and impacts that buyers want to make on their company.   00:25:43 - Building Strong Value Propositions,  Steve discusses the mistake many organizations make in building value propositions that align well with what they do, rather than what the seller cares about. He emphasizes the importance of crafting value propositions based on a full understanding of customers that address their specific needs and challenges.   00:29:24 - Understanding Benefits vs. Impacts,  Steve differentiates between benefits and impacts, with impacts being closer to the meaning that customers want to achieve in their lives. He emphasizes the importance of addressing both benefits and impacts in crafting value propositions that resonate with customers.   00:33:22 - Cybersecurity and Content Creation,  Steve Kahan discusses how weak or stolen privileged passwords are responsible for 80% of cyberattacks, and how his company created content stories to educate and provide value to their customers. He emphasizes the importance of tailoring content to the buyer's journey and creating incredible content that engages the buyer at every stage of the funnel.   00:35:55 - Sincerity and Content Value,  Kahan explains how being sincere and providing real value in content creation is crucial for engaging potential buyers. He shares examples of his company's free tools and risk assessments, which offered real value to the target market and helped to accelerate revenue growth at reasonable costs.   00:45:03 - Content Stories and Sales Velocity,  Kahan emphasizes the importance of content stories that tie together and support all stages of the funnel to maintain sales velocity. He highlights the need for ongoing partnerships and collaboration between functions to prevent breakdowns in the buyer's journey. Kahan stresses the importance of metrics and numbers to manage and optimize the sales and marketing process.   00:48:12 - Managing Multifunctional Disarray,  Kahan emphasizes the importance of managing metrics and numbers to identify and resolve breakdowns in the buyer's journey. He encourages organizations to instrument their sales and marketing processes in detail and manage them rigorously to maintain sales velocity. Kahan stresses the need for ongoing collaboration between functions to prevent breakdowns and optimize the buyer's journey.   00:51:37 - Importance of Metrics,  The importance of metrics and data analytics is discussed, with Steve Kahan emphasizing the need for ongoing refinement of data to improve marketing strategies.   00:52:09 - The Martech Stack and Metrics,  The Martech section of the book is discussed, with Steve Kahan providing a blueprint for building a successful marketing stack. He emphasizes the importance of measuring KPIs and setting revenue goals.   00:54:08 - Practical Tips for Improving Lead Conversion Rates,  Steve Kahan provides practical tips for improving lead conversion rates, including adding a "get a quote" button, minimizing friction in forms, using calls to action in every blog post, and catering to mobile users.   00:57:53 - The Importance of SEO and Google,  Steve Kahan emphasizes the importance of SEO and Google for businesses today, noting that companies should focus on both great content and SEO optimization to increase their visibility in search results.   01:04:24 - Agency Selection and Scoring,  Steve Kahan provides a scoring system for selecting digital agencies, emphasizing the need to choose partners who are all about the numbers and can provide expert analysis. He notes that selecting the right agency is crucial to a company's success.   01:08:38 - Building Great Content,  Steve shares his approach to building great content by having meetings twice a year with cross-functional teams to generate ideas. He prioritizes the best ideas and relies on his team's expertise to create high-quality content that resonates with the target audience.   01:10:56 - The Importance of Getting Content Right,  Steve emphasizes the importance of getting content right and making sure it resonates with the right buyer. He suggests that many companies struggle with the fundamentals of marketing, and focusing on these basics can make a significant difference.   01:11:29 - The Future of Marketing,  Dan asks Steve about the trends that marketers should be aware of. Steve responds that the focus should be on mastering the fundamentals of marketing rather than looking for a silver bullet. He also mentions that he is currently writing a murder mystery with James Patterson's co-authors.   01:14:16 - Recommendation for High Velocity Digital Marketing,  Dan highly recommends Steve's book, "High Velocity Digital Marketing," which offers practical advice on understanding the target audience, creating compelling content, measuring results, and improving marketing efforts. He also notes that David Meerman Scott wrote the book's foreword.    01:16:55 - Wrapping Up,  Dan thanks Steve for sharing his insights and experiences on the show. Steve expresses his pleasure in being a guest and shares his website and LinkedIn profile as the best places to find him.  

Hello to you listening in Ocean City, New Jersey!Coming to you from Whidbey Island, Washington this is Stories From Women Who Walk with 60 Seconds (and quite a bit more because it's a great story) for Time Out Tuesday and your host, Diane Wyzga.Welcome back to a special bonus episode because The Boys Are Back in Town with my guest award-winning recording artist and author, composer, musician, the creator of America the Dream, and my brother-in-law Steve Schuch.  At the conclusion of Part 1 I asked Steve: “You use the analogy of a baseball game when you were talking about America the Dream. What does that mean for people who haven't yet been to the America the Dream website?” Let's rejoin the conversation to hear more music and how this remarkably talented project came to life.Click this LINK to access Part 2 of our conversation, links, resources, America the Dream website, downloadable music, and get in touch with Steve and Night Heron Music!Easy-to-access resources: America the DreamTo learn more from Steve, tap the Interview Clips: Steve Schuch and Night Heron MusicDr. Martin Luther King, Jr.America the Beautiful - 1893 You're invited: “Come for the stories - stay for the magic!” Speaking of magic, I hope you'll subscribe, follow, share a 5-star rating and nice review on your social media or podcast channel of choice, and join us next time! Remember to stop by the website, check out the Services, arrange a Discovery Call, and Opt In to stay current with Diane and Quarter Moon Story Arts (while we are under re-construction) and on LinkedIn.  Stories From Women Who Walk Production TeamPodcaster: Diane F Wyzga & Quarter Moon Story ArtsMusic: Mer's Waltz from Crossing the Waters by Steve Schuch & Night Heron MusicAll content and image © 2019 to Present: for credit & attribution Quarter Moon Story Arts

The "Waste Not Want Not" bulletin of last week, which included news of the death of my elderly sow, Possum, elicited a range of responses, including valuable kitchen composting tips to help me replace my living, breathing consumer of food scraps. But virtually everyone added condolences. By far the most touching and beautiful tribute came from my next door neighbor Emily, a gifted designer, who delivered a card of her own creation. On the front was an illustration of my great big pig gazing through the chain link fence from her mugwort filled pasture. On the back, she wrote, "I will miss visiting Possum through the fence." And then there was the message from my frequent farm sitter, soon-to-be (I hope) housemate, and always attentive reader Steve: "You had to dig a grave for a 400-pound pig and didn't think that was interesting enough to be your main topic?!" Truth be told, Steve was not the only one curious about Possum's burial. Others asked. And the issue rather preoccupied me too, from the moment I found her lifeless in her hut. To begin with, of course, there was her size. Six feet long from snout to tail, 3 feet tall, and 21 inches from side to side at her widest exactly. (I measured her before digging.) A solid, wide creature who always amazed visitors. She was also awkwardly located. Her pasture was fenced off and deliberately set in a soggy low lying area, a pig paradise where they could create mud wallows in the summer and the sheep would not want to graze. It is fenced off from the rest of the property with no wide gates or any easy route for mechanized vehicles to enter. Then there was the matter of time and temperature. Our unusually warm winter saved me from a painful battle with frozen soil, but it would only hasten the decomposition of her body. I felt an urgent need to get her in the ground. To top it all off, I was alone. It was one of my rare (and unwanted) weekends without Eric. He and Steve and Matt and Tom and Paul all offered to help, but dispersed as they were from the Berkshires to New York City and Eastern Long Island with commitments they couldn't instantly drop, I didn't feel I could wait. Against all their warnings (Eric insisted: "Don't do this yourself!"), I stubbornly decided I just had to get to it. Shovel in hand, I went down to survey the possible burial sites.In a perfect world, I would bury her next to her former companion, Vernon the boar, in the middle of the pasture. But the prospect of maneuvering this massive corpse down and up a rise and across a stream was a quest I could not undertake. Besides, any action emphasizing their coupled status would be terribly guilt inducing for me. Possum and I had a complicated relationship. She came to us as an adult, a gift from a farm where she constantly fought with a rival sow. In most circumstances she was sweet and liked to be approached and petted, but she, like any sow, could be ferocious if ever her piglets were threatened. And I, unfortunately, on one muddy spring day, found myself trying to grab her male piglets for the vet to castrate. I grabbed a hoe to keep her at bay as she charged me. With her full weight, she jammed it back into me, cracking one of my ribs. From then on, I kept a wary distance. That was just one reason I spent several months soon thereafter convincing my late partner, Peter, to sell off our 30 plus pigs. After they were almost all gone, I reversed course. I couldn't bear to part with Vernon the boar, having raised him from when he was just a couple of months old. Fearing he would be lonely, we kept his companion, who was, ironically, Possum. (Possum and I both loved his sweet nature.) And as fate would have it, she was left alone when Vernon died. Her farm of origin did not want her back. I felt guilt at her life isolated from pig society and with only a couple of daily visits from me. Emily's note was especially comforting by letting me

In today's episode of the "The Runway Decade Podcast," hosts Bill Bush and Pete Bush, advisors at Horizon Financial Group are talking with Steve Webb, Chief Executive Officer at Neighbors Federal Credit Union.   Episode Highlights 06.00: Steve talks about the growth of Neighbors Federal Credit Union. How he has watched its growth from $68 million to $1.3 billion. 07.13: Steve talks about the acquisition game that they got into. It's about a decade ago they did one acquisition. But most of their growth was organic and acquisition was about $45 million. 11.03: Steve explains how their entire model of business is based on taking appropriate risk and receiving a reward. 12.09: You have to really enjoy where you are spending your time. You have got to enjoy the people you are working with every day, says Steve. 12.52: Bill, Pete and Steve discuss the importance of work life balance and how important it is to maintain it. 14.07: Pete shares he has two grandkids now and how they change his perspective about things, about the future and about life and everything else. 17.02: As per Steve, goal of any parents is to produce productive members of the society. 18.00: Bill says that they have this thing called the runway decade and it's about life in your 50s. 18.27: 50 was an interesting year for Steve, because it was when he was promoted to CEO of the organization. 19.05: 50 makes you think of your mortality and that life doesn't go on for forever, says Steve. 21.40: Steve always tells people all the time that mobility is a quality-of-life equation to be if you can't walk or move or do things, it really impacts you. 24.40: When you start talking about retirement and you think you got a few years to plan, you better start planning today because every day you wait, that time is going by. 25.20: Steve has talked to a few folks about what is that next step as well. It's going to be a few weeks or months of just chilling, but after that you can't stay on the sidelines forever. 30.01: Steve says that they do a lot of Community efforts. They have high school checking account programs where they actually donate money back to schools. They have tuition and grant programs where they assist students with furthering their education. 31.00: One of Steve's mantras here is they talk about financial confidence and financial confident people make the world better because the lack of money or the lack of understanding about financial stuff does the opposite.     Three Key Points Bill, Pete and Steve talk about their work and family and how they balance work and life. Steve talks about life at 50 and how his mindset has changed in a good way for healthcare. Steve shares what retirement means to him. For Steve retirement is an opportunity to do some things that you really don't get the opportunity to do today.       Tweetable Quotes “There have been things that... obviously, initiatives that we have taken on that necessarily weren't successful and, sometimes you've got to realize that and you've got to be willing to say, hey, it was not a bad idea, might have been a bad implementation, but at this point in time the bad decision is to continue pushing through for something that's obviously not working.” – Steve “I don't care how hard you work and how many hours you put in a day. At the end of the day, if you're just burning yourself out, you're not really helping anybody.” - Steve “I tell people all the time outside of where ...I work inside all day long, Monday through Friday and typically in the office. So anytime I can get outdoors, I'm outdoors.” - Steve “You've got to get back and engage in something and you just have to have the willpower and the strength to not let yourself get roped into turn into a 60 hour gig every week again.” - Steve “Everybody's got their thing that they look forward to and we don't have, I don't golf or hunt or fish or do all those things, although I would go to enjoy time with someone. But our big thing is travel.” - Pete “Just recently we created another grant program called Projects in public schools where I think this year, we gave away $100,000 for just small public-school grants. Some of them are 1500 dollars 700, some of them are a few $1000, but there's an application process at the schools go through and we just started a reward and for some of those little extra things that the budget typically doesn't allow for.” – Steve “What we are doing today will continue to grow. So the impact will be greater rate two years from now, 10 years from now and so forth.” - Steve   Resources Mentioned https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-webb-53861b1a8/ https://www.neighborsfcu.org https://www.runwaydecade.com Bill Bush: bbush@horizonfg.com Pete Bush: pbush@horizonfg.com Podcast Editing

About Steve:Steve Rice is Principal Product Manager for AWS AppConfig. He is surprisingly passionate about feature flags and continuous configuration. He lives in the Washington DC area with his wife, 3 kids, and 2 incontinent dogs.Links Referenced:AWS AppConfig: https://go.aws/awsappconfig TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by our friends at AWS AppConfig. Engineers love to solve, and occasionally create, problems. But not when it's an on-call fire-drill at 4 in the morning. Software problems should drive innovation and collaboration, NOT stress, and sleeplessness, and threats of violence. That's why so many developers are realizing the value of AWS AppConfig Feature Flags. Feature Flags let developers push code to production, but hide that that feature from customers so that the developers can release their feature when it's ready. This practice allows for safe, fast, and convenient software development. You can seamlessly incorporate AppConfig Feature Flags into your AWS or cloud environment and ship your Features with excitement, not trepidation and fear. To get started, go to snark.cloud/appconfig. That's snark.cloud/appconfig.Corey: Forget everything you know about SSH and try Tailscale. Imagine if you didn't need to manage PKI or rotate SSH keys every time someone leaves. That'd be pretty sweet, wouldn't it? With tail scale, ssh, you can do exactly that. Tail scale gives each server and user device a node key to connect to its VPN, and it uses the same node key to authorize and authenticate.S. Basically you're SSHing the same way you manage access to your app. What's the benefit here? Built in key rotation permissions is code connectivity between any two devices, reduce latency and there's a lot more, but there's a time limit here. You can also ask users to reauthenticate for that extra bit of security. Sounds expensive?Nope, I wish it were. tail scales. Completely free for personal use on up to 20 devices. To learn more, visit snark.cloud/tailscale. Again, that's snark.cloud/tailscaleCorey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. This is a promoted guest episode. What does that mean? Well, it means that some people don't just want me to sit here and throw slings and arrows their way, they would prefer to send me a guest specifically, and they do pay for that privilege, which I appreciate. Paying me is absolutely a behavior I wish to endorse.Today's victim who has decided to contribute to slash sponsor my ongoing ridiculous nonsense is, of all companies, AWS. And today I'm talking to Steve Rice, who's the principal product manager on AWS AppConfig. Steve, thank you for joining me.Steve: Hey, Corey, great to see you. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to a conversation.Corey: As am I. Now, AppConfig does something super interesting, which I'm not aware of any other service or sub-service doing. You are under the umbrella of AWS Systems Manager, but you're not going to market with Systems Manager AppConfig. You're just AWS AppConfig. Why?Steve: So, AppConfig is part of AWS Systems Manager. Systems Manager has, I think, 17 different features associated with it. Some of them have an individual name that is associated with Systems Manager, some of them don't. We just happen to be one that doesn't. AppConfig is a service that's been around for a while internally before it was launched externally a couple years ago, so I'd say that's probably the origin of the name and the service. I can tell you more about the origin of the service if you're curious.Corey: Oh, I absolutely am. But I just want to take a bit of a detour here and point out that I make fun of the sub-service names in Systems Manager an awful lot, like Systems Manager Session Manager and Systems Manager Change Manager. And part of the reason I do that is not just because it's funny, but because almost everything I found so far within the Systems Manager umbrella is pretty awesome. It aligns with how I tend to think about the world in a bunch of different ways. I have yet to see anything lurking within the Systems Manager umbrella that has led to a tee-hee-hee bill surprise level that rivals, you know, the GDP of Guam. So, I'm a big fan of the entire suite of services. But yes, how did AppConfig get its name?Steve: [laugh]. So, AppConfig started about six years ago, now, internally. So, we actually were part of the region services department inside of Amazon, which is in charge of launching new services around the world. We found that a centralized tool for configuration associated with each service launching was really helpful. So, a service might be launching in a new region and have to enable and disable things as it moved along.And so, the tool was sort of built for that, turning on and off things as the region developed and was ready to launch publicly; then the regions launch publicly. It turned out that our internal customers, which are a lot of AWS services and then some Amazon services as well, started to use us beyond launching new regions, and started to use us for feature flagging. Again, turning on and off capabilities, launching things safely. And so, it became massively popular; we were actually a top 30 service internally in terms of usage. And two years ago, we thought we really should launch this externally and let our customers benefit from some of the goodness that we put in there, and some of—those all come from the mistakes we've made internally. And so, it became AppConfig. In terms of the name itself, we specialize in application configuration, so that's kind of a mouthful, so we just changed it to AppConfig.Corey: Earlier this year, there was a vulnerability reported around I believe it was AWS Glue, but please don't quote me on that. And as part of its excellent response that AWS put out, they said that from the time that it was disclosed to them, they had patched the service and rolled it out to every AWS region in which Glue existed in a little under 29 hours, which at scale is absolutely magic fast. That is superhero speed and then some because you generally don't just throw something over the wall, regardless of how small it is when we're talking about something at the scale of AWS. I mean, look at who your customers are; mistakes will show. This also got me thinking that when you have Adam, or previously Andy, on stage giving a keynote announcement and then they mention something on stage, like, “Congratulations. It's now a very complicated service with 14 adjectives in his name because someone's paid by the syllable. Great.”Suddenly, the marketing pages are up, the APIs are working, it's showing up in the console, and it occurs to me only somewhat recently to think about all of the moving parts that go on behind this. That is far faster than even the improved speed of CloudFront distribution updates. There's very clearly something going on there. So, I've got to ask, is that you?Steve: Yes, a lot of that is us. I can't take credit for a hundred percent of what you're talking about, but that's how we are used. We're essentially used as a feature-flagging service. And I can talk generically about feature flagging. Feature flagging allows you to push code out to production, but it's hidden behind a configuration switch: a feature toggle or a feature flag. And that code can be sitting out there, nobody can access it until somebody flips that toggle. Now, the smart way to do it is to flip that toggle on for a small set of users. Maybe it's just internal users, maybe it's 1% of your users. And so, the features available, you can—Corey: It's your best slash worst customers [laugh] in that 1%, in some cases.Steve: Yeah, you want to stress test the system with them and you want to be able to look and see what's going to break before it breaks for everybody. So, you release us to a small cohort, you measure your operations, you measure your application health, you measure your reputational concerns, and then if everything goes well, then you maybe bump it up to 2%, and then 10%, and then 20%. So, feature flags allow you to slowly release features, and you know what you're releasing by the time it's at a hundred percent. It's tempting for teams to want to, like, have everybody access it at the same time; you've been working hard on this feature for a long time. But again, that's kind of an anti-pattern. You want to make sure that on production, it behaves the way you expect it to behave.Corey: I have to ask what is the fundamental difference between feature flags and/or dynamic configuration. Because to my mind, one of them is a means of achieving the other, but I could also see very easily using the terms interchangeably. Given that in some of our conversations, you have corrected me which, first, how dare you? Secondly, okay, there's probably a reason here. What is that point of distinction?Steve: Yeah. Typically for those that are not eat, sleep, and breathing dynamic configuration—which I do—and most people are not obsessed with this kind of thing, feature flags is kind of a shorthand for dynamic configuration. It allows you to turn on and off things without pushing out any new code. So, your application code's running, it's pulling its configuration data, say every five seconds, every ten seconds, something like that, and when that configuration data changes, then that app changes its behavior, again, without a code push or without restarting the app.So, dynamic configuration is maybe a superset of feature flags. Typically, when people think feature flags, they're thinking of, “Oh, I'm going to release a new feature, so it's almost like an on-off switch.” But we see customers using feature flags—and we use this internally—for things like throttling limits. Let's say you want to be able to throttle TPS transactions per second. Or let's say you want to throttle the number of simultaneous background tasks, and say, you know, I just really don't want this creeping above 50; bad things can start to happen.But in a period of stress, you might want to actually bring that number down. Well, you can push out these changes with dynamic configuration—which is, again, any type of configuration, not just an on-off switch—you can push this out and adjust the behavior and see what happens. Again, I'd recommend pushing it out to 1% of your users, and then 10%. But it allows you to have these dials and switches to do that. And, again, generically, that's dynamic configuration. It's not as fun to term as feature flags; feature flags is sort of a good mental picture, so I do use them interchangeably, but if you're really into the whole world of this dynamic configuration, then you probably will care about the difference.Corey: Which makes a fair bit of sense. It's the question of what are you talking about high level versus what are you talking about implementation detail-wise.Steve: Yep. Yep.Corey: And on some level, I used to get… well, we'll call it angsty—because I can't think of a better adjective right now—about how AWS was reluctant to disclose implementation details behind what it did. And in the fullness of time, it's made a lot more sense to me, specifically through a lens of, you want to be able to have the freedom to change how something works under the hood. And if you've made no particular guarantee about the implementation detail, you can do that without potentially worrying about breaking a whole bunch of customer expectations that you've inadvertently set. And that makes an awful lot of sense.The idea of rolling out changes to your infrastructure has evolved over the last decade. Once upon a time you'd have EC2 instances, and great, you want to go ahead and make a change there—or this actually predates EC2 instances. Virtual machines in a data center or heaven forbid, bare metal servers, you're not going to deploy a whole new server because there's a new version of the code out, so you separate out your infrastructure from the code that it runs. And that worked out well. And increasingly, we started to see ways of okay, if we want to change the behavior of the application, we'll just push out new environment variables to that thing and restart the service so it winds up consuming those.And that's great. You've rolled it out throughout your fleet. With containers, which is sort of the next logical step, well, okay, this stuff gets baked in, we'll just restart containers with a new version of code because that takes less than a second each and you're fine. And then Lambda functions, it's okay, we'll just change the deployment option and the next invocation will wind up taking the brand new environment variables passed out to it. How do feature flags feature into those, I guess, three evolving methods of running applications in anger, by which I mean, of course, production?Steve: [laugh]. Good question. And I think you really articulated that well.Corey: Well, thank you. I should hope so. I'm a storyteller. At least I fancy myself one.Steve: [laugh]. Yes, you are. Really what you talked about is the evolution of you know, at the beginning, people were—well, first of all, people probably were embedding their variables deep in their code and then they realized, “Oh, I want to change this,” and now you have to find where in my code that is. And so, it became a pattern. Why don't we separate everything that's a configuration data into its own file? But it'll get compiled at build time and sent out all at once.There was kind of this breakthrough that was, why don't we actually separate out the deployment of this? We can separate the deployment from code from the deployment of configuration data, and have the code be reading that configuration data on a regular interval, as I already said. So now, as the environments have changed—like you said, containers and Lambda—that ability to make tweaks at microsecond intervals is more important and more powerful. So, there certainly is still value in having things like environment variables that get read at startup. We call that static configuration as opposed to dynamic configuration.And that's a very important element in the world of containers that you talked about. Containers are a bit ephemeral, and so they kind of come and go, and you can restart things, or you might spin up new containers that are slightly different config and have them operate in a certain way. And again, Lambda takes that to the next level. I'm really excited where people are going to take feature flags to the next level because already today we have people just fine-tuning to very targeted small subsets, different configuration data, different feature flag data, and allows them to do this like at we've never seen before scale of turning this on, seeing how it reacts, seeing how the application behaves, and then being able to roll that out to all of your audience.Now, you got to be careful, you really don't want to have completely different configurations out there and have 10 different, or you know, 100 different configurations out there. That makes it really tough to debug. So, you want to think of this as I want to roll this out gradually over time, but eventually, you want to have this sort of state where everything is somewhat consistent.Corey: That, on some level, speaks to a level of operational maturity that my current deployment adventures generally don't have. A common reference I make is to my lasttweetinaws.com Twitter threading app. And anyone can visit it, use it however they want.And it uses a Route 53 latency record to figure out, ah, which is the closest region to you because I've deployed it to 20 different regions. Now, if this were a paid service, or I had people using this in large volume and I had to worry about that sort of thing, I would probably approach something that is very close to what you describe. In practice, I pick a devoted region that I deploy something to, and cool, that's sort of my canary where I get things working the way I would expect. And when that works the way I want it to I then just push it to everything else automatically. Given that I've put significant effort into getting deployments down to approximately two minutes to deploy to everything, it feels like that's a reasonable amount of time to push something out.Whereas if I were, I don't know, running a bank, for example, I would probably have an incredibly heavy process around things that make changes to things like payment or whatnot. Because despite the lies, we all like to tell both to ourselves and in public, anything that touches payments does go through waterfall, not agile iterative development because that mistake tends to show up on your customer's credit card bills, and then they're also angry. I think that there's a certain point of maturity you need to be at as either an organization or possibly as a software technology stack before something like feature flags even becomes available to you. Would you agree with that, or is this something everyone should use?Steve: I would agree with that. Definitely, a small team that has communication flowing between the two probably won't get as much value out of a gradual release process because everybody kind of knows what's going on inside of the team. Once your team scales, or maybe your audience scales, that's when it matters more. You really don't want to have something blow up with your users. You really don't want to have people getting paged in the middle of the night because of a change that was made. And so, feature flags do help with that.So typically, the journey we see is people start off in a maybe very small startup. They're releasing features at a very fast pace. They grow and they start to build their own feature flagging solution—again, at companies I've been at previously have done that—and you start using feature flags and you see the power of it. Oh, my gosh, this is great. I can release something when I want without doing a big code push. I can just do a small little change, and if something goes wrong, I can roll it back instantly. That's really handy.And so, the basics of feature flagging might be a homegrown solution that you all have built. If you really lean into that and start to use it more, then you probably want to look at a third-party solution because there's so many features out there that you might want. A lot of them are around safeguards that makes sure that releasing a new feature is safe. You know, again, pushing out a new feature to everybody could be similar to pushing out untested code to production. You don't want to do that, so you need to have, you know, some checks and balances in your release process of your feature flags, and that's what a lot of third parties do.It really depends—to get back to your question about who needs feature flags—it depends on your audience size. You know, if you have enough audience out there to want to do a small rollout to a small set first and then have everybody hit it, that's great. Also, if you just have, you know, one or two developers, then feature flags are probably something that you're just kind of, you're doing yourself, you're pushing out this thing anyway on your own, but you don't need it coordinated across your team.Corey: I think that there's also a bit of—how to frame this—misunderstanding on someone's part about where AppConfig starts and where it stops. When it was first announced, feature flags were one of the things that it did. And that was talked about on stage, I believe in re:Invent, but please don't quote me on that, when it wound up getting announced. And then in the fullness of time, there was another announcement of AppConfig now supports feature flags, which I'm sitting there and I had to go back to my old notes. Like, did I hallucinate this? Which again, would not be the first time I'd imagine such a thing. But no, it was originally how the service was described, but now it's extra feature flags, almost like someone would, I don't know, flip on a feature-flag toggle for the service and now it does a different thing. What changed? What was it that was misunderstood about the service initially versus what it became?Steve: Yeah, I wouldn't say it was a misunderstanding. I think what happened was we launched it, guessing what our customers were going to use it as. We had done plenty of research on that, and as I mentioned before we had—Corey: Please tell me someone used it as a database. Or am I the only nutter that does stuff like that?Steve: We have seen that before. We have seen something like that before.Corey: Excellent. Excellent, excellent. I approve.Steve: And so, we had done our due diligence ahead of time about how we thought people were going to use it. We were right about a lot of it. I mentioned before that we have a lot of usage internally, so you know, that was kind of maybe cheating even for us to be able to sort of see how this is going to evolve. What we did announce, I guess it was last November, was an opinionated version of feature flags. So, we had people using us for feature flags, but they were building their own structure, their own JSON, and there was not a dedicated console experience for feature flags.What we announced last November was an opinionated version that structured the JSON in a way that we think is the right way, and that afforded us the ability to have a smooth console experience. So, if we know what the structure of the JSON is, we can have things like toggles and validations in there that really specifically look at some of the data points. So, that's really what happened. We're just making it easier for our customers to use us for feature flags. We still have some customers that are kind of building their own solution, but we're seeing a lot of them move over to our opinionated version.Corey: This episode is brought to us in part by our friends at Datadog. Datadog's SaaS monitoring and security platform that enables full stack observability for developers, IT operations, security, and business teams in the cloud age. Datadog's platform, along with 500 plus vendor integrations, allows you to correlate metrics, traces, logs, and security signals across your applications, infrastructure, and third party services in a single pane of glass.Combine these with drag and drop dashboards and machine learning based alerts to help teams troubleshoot and collaborate more effectively, prevent downtime, and enhance performance and reliability. Try Datadog in your environment today with a free 14 day trial and get a complimentary T-shirt when you install the agent.To learn more, visit datadoghq/screaminginthecloud to get. That's www.datadoghq/screaminginthecloudCorey: Part of the problem I have when I look at what it is you folks do, and your use cases, and how you structure it is, it's similar in some respects to how folks perceive things like FIS, the fault injection service, or chaos engineering, as is commonly known, which is, “We can't even get the service to stay up on its own for any [unintelligible 00:18:35] period of time. What do you mean, now let's intentionally degrade it and make it work?” There needs to be a certain level of operational stability or operational maturity. When you're still building a service before it's up and running, feature flags seem awfully premature because there's no one depending on it. You can change configuration however your little heart desires. In most cases. I'm sure at certain points of scale of development teams, you have a communications problem internally, but it's not aimed at me trying to get something working at 2 a.m. in the middle of the night.Whereas by the time folks are ready for what you're doing, they clearly have that level of operational maturity established. So, I have to guess on some level, that your typical adopter of AppConfig feature flags isn't in fact, someone who is, “Well, we're ready for feature flags; let's go,” but rather someone who's come up with something else as a stopgap as they've been iterating forward. Usually something homebuilt. And it might very well be you have the exact same biggest competitor that I do in my consulting work, which is of course, Microsoft Excel as people try to build their own thing that works in their own way.Steve: Yeah, so definitely a very common customer of ours is somebody that is using a homegrown solution for turning on and off things. And they really feel like I'm using the heck out of these feature flags. I'm using them on a daily or weekly basis. I would like to have some enhancements to how my feature flags work, but I have limited resources and I'm not sure that my resources should be building enhancements to a feature-flagging service, but instead, I'd rather have them focusing on something, you know, directly for our customers, some of the core features of whatever your company does. And so, that's when people sort of look around externally and say, “Oh, let me see if there's some other third-party service or something built into AWS like AWS AppConfig that can meet those needs.”And so absolutely, the workflows get more sophisticated, the ability to move forward faster becomes more important, and do so in a safe way. I used to work at a cybersecurity company and we would kind of joke that the security budget of the company is relatively low until something bad happens, and then it's, you know, whatever you need to spend on it. It's not quite the same with feature flags, but you do see when somebody has a problem on production, and they want to be able to turn something off right away or make an adjustment right away, then the ability to do that in a measured way becomes incredibly important. And so, that's when, again, you'll see customers starting to feel like they're outgrowing their homegrown solution and moving to something that's a third-party solution.Corey: Honestly, I feel like so many tools exist in this space, where, “Oh, yeah, you should definitely use this tool.” And most people will use that tool. The second time. Because the first time, it's one of those, “How hard could that be out? I can build something like that in a weekend.” Which is sort of the rallying cry of doomed engineers who are bad at scoping.And by the time that they figure out why, they have to backtrack significantly. There's a whole bunch of stuff that I have built that people look at and say, “Wow, that's a really great design. What inspired you to do that?” And the absolute honest answer to all of it is simply, “Yeah, I worked in roles for the first time I did it the way you would think I would do it and it didn't go well.” Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted, and this is one of those areas where it tends to manifest in reasonable ways.Steve: Absolutely, absolutely.Corey: So, give me an example here, if you don't mind, about how feature flags can improve the day-to-day experience of an engineering team or an engineer themselves. Because we've been down this path enough, in some cases, to know the failure modes, but for folks who haven't been there that's trying to shave a little bit off of their journey of, “I'm going to learn from my own mistakes.” Eh, learn from someone else's. What are the benefits that accrue and are felt immediately?Steve: Yeah. So, we kind of have a policy that the very first commit of any new feature ought to be the feature flag. That's that sort of on-off switch that you want to put there so that you can start to deploy your code and not have a long-lived branch in your source code. But you can have your code there, it reads whether that configuration is on or off. You start with it off.And so, it really helps just while developing these things about keeping your branches short. And you can push the mainline, as long as the feature flag is off and the feature is hidden to production, which is great. So, that helps with the mess of doing big code merges. The other part is around the launch of a feature.So, you talked about Andy Jassy being on stage to launch a new feature. Sort of the old way of doing this, Corey, was that you would need to look at your pipelines and see how long it might take for you to push out your code with any sort of code change in it. And let's say that was an hour-and-a-half process and let's say your CEO is on stage at eight o'clock on a Friday. And as much as you like to say it, “Oh, I'm never pushing out code on a Friday,” sometimes you have to. The old way—Corey: Yeah, that week, yes you are, whether you want to or not.Steve: [laugh]. Exactly, exactly. The old way was this idea that I'm going to time my release, and it takes an hour-and-a-half; I'm going to push it out, and I'll do my best, but hopefully, when the CEO raises her arm or his arm up and points to a screen that everything's lit up. Well, let's say you're doing that and something goes wrong and you have to start over again. Well, oh, my goodness, we're 15 minutes behind, can you accelerate things? And then you start to pull away some of these blockers to accelerate your pipeline or you start editing it right in the console of your application, which is generally not a good idea right before a really big launch.So, the new way is, I'm going to have that code already out there on a Wednesday [laugh] before this big thing on a Friday, but it's hidden behind this feature flag, I've already turned it on and off for internals, and it's just waiting there. And so, then when the CEO points to the big screen, you can just flip that one small little configuration change—and that can be almost instantaneous—and people can access it. So, that just reduces the amount of stress, reduces the amount of risk in pushing out your code.Another thing is—we've heard this from customers—customers are increasing the number of deploys that they can do per week by a very large percentage because they're deploying with confidence. They know that I can push out this code and it's off by default, then I can turn it on whenever I feel like it, and then I can turn it off if something goes wrong. So, if you're into CI/CD, you can actually just move a lot faster with a number of pushes to production each week, which again, I think really helps engineers on their day-to-day lives. The final thing I'm going to talk about is that let's say you did push out something, and for whatever reason, that following weekend, something's going wrong. The old way was oop, you're going to get a page, I'm going to have to get on my computer and go and debug things and fix things, and then push out a new code change.And this could be late on a Saturday evening when you're out with friends. If there's a feature flag there that can turn it off and if this feature is not critical to the operation of your product, you can actually just go in and flip that feature flag off until the next morning or maybe even Monday morning. So, in theory, you kind of get your free time back when you are implementing feature flags. So, I think those are the big benefits for engineers in using feature flags.Corey: And the best way to figure out whether someone is speaking from a position of experience or is simply a raving zealot when they're in a position where they are incentivized to advocate for a particular way of doing things or a particular product, as—let's be clear—you are in that position, is to ask a form of the following question. Let's turn it around for a second. In what scenarios would you absolutely not want to use feature flags? What problems arise? When do you take a look at a situation and say, “Oh, yeah, feature flags will make things worse, instead of better. Don't do it.”Steve: I'm not sure I wouldn't necessarily don't do it—maybe I am that zealot—but you got to do it carefully.Corey: [laugh].Steve: You really got to do things carefully because as I said before, flipping on a feature flag for everybody is similar to pushing out untested code to production. So, you want to do that in a measured way. So, you need to make sure that you do a couple of things. One, there should be some way to measure what the system behavior is for a small set of users with that feature flag flipped to on first. And it could be some canaries that you're using for that.You can also—there's other mechanisms you can do that to: set up cohorts and beta testers and those kinds of things. But I would say the gradual rollout and the targeted rollout of a feature flag is critical. You know, again, it sounds easy, “I'll just turn it on later,” but you ideally don't want to do that. The second thing you want to do is, if you can, is there some sort of validation that the feature flag is what you expect? So, I was talking about on-off feature flags; there are things, as when I was talking about dynamic configuration, that are things like throttling limits, that you actually want to make sure that you put in some other safeguards that say, “I never want my TPS to go above 1200 and never want to set it below 800,” for whatever reason, for example. Well, you want to have some sort of validation of that data before the feature flag gets pushed out. Inside Amazon, we actually have the policy that every single flag needs to have some sort of validation around it so that we don't accidentally fat-finger something out before it goes out there. And we have fat-fingered things.Corey: Typing the wrong thing into a command structure into a tool? “Who would ever do something like that?” He says, remembering times he's taken production down himself, exactly that way.Steve: Exactly, exactly, yeah. And we've done it at Amazon and AWS, for sure. And so yeah, if you have some sort of structure or process to validate that—because oftentimes, what you're doing is you're trying to remediate something in production. Stress levels are high, it is especially easy to fat-finger there. So, that check-and-balance of a validation is important.And then ideally, you have something to automatically roll back whatever change that you made, very quickly. So AppConfig, for example, hooks up to CloudWatch alarms. If an alarm goes off, we're actually going to roll back instantly whatever that feature flag was to its previous state so that you don't even need to really worry about validating against your CloudWatch. It'll just automatically do that against whatever alarms you have.Corey: One of the interesting parts about working at Amazon and seeing things in Amazonian scale is that one in a million events happen thousands of times every second for you folks. What lessons have you learned by deploying feature flags at that kind of scale? Because one of my problems and challenges with deploying feature flags myself is that in some cases, we're talking about three to five users a day for some of these things. That's not really enough usage to get insights into various cohort analyses or A/B tests.Steve: Yeah. As I mentioned before, we build these things as features into our product. So, I just talked about the CloudWatch alarms. That wasn't there originally. Originally, you know, if something went wrong, you would observe a CloudWatch alarm and then you decide what to do, and one of those things might be that I'm going to roll back my configuration.So, a lot of the mistakes that we made that caused alarms to go off necessitated us building some automatic mechanisms. And you know, a human being can only react so fast, but an automated system there is going to be able to roll things back very, very quickly. So, that came from some specific mistakes that we had made inside of AWS. The validation that I was talking about as well. We have a couple of ways of validating things.You might want to do a syntactic validation, which really you're validating—as I was saying—the range between 100 and 1000, but you also might want to have sort of a functional validation, or we call it a semantic validation so that you can make sure that, for example, if you're switching to a new database, that you're going to flip over to your new database, you can have a validation there that says, “This database is ready, I can write to this table, it's truly ready for me to switch.” Instead of just updating some config data, you're actually going to be validating that the new target is ready for you. So, those are a couple of things that we've learned from some of the mistakes we made. And again, not saying we aren't making mistakes still, but we always look at these things inside of AWS and figure out how we can benefit from them and how our customers, more importantly, can benefit from these mistakes.Corey: I would say that I agree. I think that you have threaded the needle of not talking smack about your own product, while also presenting it as not the global panacea that everyone should roll out, willy-nilly. That's a good balance to strike. And frankly, I'd also say it's probably a good point to park the episode. If people want to learn more about AppConfig, how you view these challenges, or even potentially want to get started using it themselves, what should they do?Steve: We have an informational page at go.aws/awsappconfig. That will tell you the high-level overview. You can search for our documentation and we have a lot of blog posts to help you get started there.Corey: And links to that will, of course, go into the [show notes 00:31:21]. Thank you so much for suffering my slings, arrows, and other assorted nonsense on this. I really appreciate your taking the time.Steve: Corey thank you for the time. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. Really appreciate your insights.Corey: You're too kind. Steve Rice, principal product manager for AWS AppConfig. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice along with an angry comment. But before you do, just try clearing your cookies and downloading the episode again. You might be in the 3% cohort for an A/B test, and you [want to 00:32:01] listen to the good one instead.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.

Overview Steve attributes the success of his series to his great character, Joshua Oates. He had the idea for the series because he had the character so well developed. We discuss how focusing on the character helped him to create the series as a whole. Book https://www.amazon.com/Murder-Numbers-Joshua-Oates-Adventure-ebook/dp/B0B5HPRFZZ?crid=2ZTZ9J3F3XRM2&keywords=murder+by+the+numbers&qid=1663785280&sprefix=murder+by+the+number%2Caps%2C126&sr=8-5&linkCode=li2&tag=discoveredwordsmiths-20&linkId=d31b8b9e04fa43f3409a708dc5351a01&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_il YouTube https://youtu.be/DjzDgCtfNf0 Transcript All right. So let's talk some author stuff. Before we talk about writing your series based on your character let's a few other things you've been writing for a while. What are some things you've learned that you're doing different now than you did from at the beginning? [00:26:41] Steve: Yeah. One thing get a comfortable chair. Because you're gonna be on that keyboard or writing on a notebook or whatever, but you're gonna be sitting down and you're gonna be writing. And that's a task that if you have a comfortable chair, that helps a lot. What else can I tell you? The things that I did yes, be compact. Be economical. What I mean by that is. You can be writing and you have rambling sentences that people, don't we really wanna read. You really wanna get to the action. What's taking place, the dialogue is something you learn as you go, I think and you want crisp short dialogue that goes with the story that, makes it go. You can have reflective dialogue, but I find that when two people are talking to each other two characters are talking to each other. You wanna get to the point, [00:27:38] Stephen: right? Yep. Okay. Now, I picture with that hat and talking about the 1920s, I picture you sitting there at an old Remington steel typewriter taking away at it, but I assume you don't do that. What, so what what do you do when you write, is there any software or services that you particularly like? Yeah, [00:27:58] Steve: I tried different ones. First I tried a Microsoft word, which is good. And then I went to Google docs, which I use now. There are many others out there that I'll probably experiment and try different ones. But right now the Google docs seem to work. One of the things it has is that if I misspell a word it tells me, Hey, this word does not spell like that. Okay. all right, then. I'll correct it. And. And I can I can use that and you can actually convert Google docs to either a PDF file or a Microsoft word file. So yeah. So you can have the best of both worlds, [00:28:41] Stephen: okay. All right. And you had also mentioned earlier about marketing and that, so what are you doing to market? Do you have any interesting marketing you're doing. [00:28:50] Steve: I'm doing I'm doing podcast, which I'm thankful on. Thank you. Thank you for having me by the way. And I'm also doing some book signings. I also do some what would I call it? The library has different author days, my local library. So I do those. And I also get on as many websites as I can to try to promote my book. I do have the Amazon author page. I do have the Facebook page. I not on Instagram and I don't do Twitter. It's probably, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing for an author. But that's what I'm trying to do that. And also there's book fairs too, that I enter to try to do it that way. [00:29:37] Stephen: So how are you finding like the book fairs and things to go to? Are you just Google searching or do you hear about 'em from other places? [00:29:45] Steve: Yeah. A little both. And then I have author friends that tell me about. and I read about it in the newspaper and yes, I still read a paper newspaper that comes in. [00:29:58] Stephen: With that hat, you have to, , [00:29:59] Steve: You gotta do, you gotta go for it. Yeah and I get and word of mouth,

There are many reasons for why the market moves the way it does, and not least of these reasons are in the winds of political fortune. It's on each of us to keep up with what's going on and make sure that we're prepared for shifts in the market. What the past decade has shown us in stark detail is that anything can happen, no matter how stable the market seems or how volatile it might be. This isn't to say that if you're new to being an agent that this is a bad time to start, but it does mean that preparation is going to be key to your success. This is just a short conversation about this subject, but if you'd like to hear more about this or any other questions, send us a message and let us know!   “Market realists recognize that there's going to be another cycle that comes, and it's going to be in my favor or not in my favor. So, what are the risks in the investment strategy that's under consideration? What's the exit strategy?” – Bernie   “There's going to be a lot of opportunities over the next 12 to 18 months where the rates are if you can find something at 30, or 40%, discounted and having the connection, either with private capital, or with a partner or something. Those are the opportunities I'd be looking for.” – Steve   “You have to have reserves and then you need to have a strategy about how much money you need to make and how much money you want to make and understanding and planning for that gap.” – Bernie   Hey you! You're a long-time listener, time to be a first-time caller! Have a question or topic you'd like us to cover? Drop a line to our DM's: Steve's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stevedvalentine/ Bernie's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bernzpix/   You can find us on all the major Podcast apps: Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify, Stitcher, and more! Subscribe to be notified when new episodes are live and leave us a review and 5-star rating to help the show grow!

  I had a chance to sneak up on Vahe Torossian, a Microsoft Corporate Vice President and the man in charge of Sales for Microsoft Business Applications. While Vahe has been with Microsoft for 30 years, many of you may not know him, so I wanted to fix that. Vahe is no ordinary Seller; he's the “Top” guy who sets the sales strategy and motions for the entire global team. Vahe is also the guy who runs the really big enterprise customer meetings, and he's super-friendly, as you would expect for the Chief Rainmaker. We covered a lot of ground in this one, so enjoy! Transcript Below: Vahe: Hey, Vahe Torossian speaking. Steve: Vahe, Steve Mordue, how are you? Vahe: Hey Steve. In fairness let's say Charles mentioned that somehow you were going to call me. I didn't know when, but it's great to talk to you. Steve: After I interviewed him, I asked him who would be a good person to talk to? And he dropped your name. So it doesn't surprise me that he gave you a little heads up. Have you got a few minutes to chat? Vahe: Yeah, of course. Thanks Steve. Steve: Oh, perfect, perfect. So before we get into it, maybe we can tell the listeners a little bit about what your role is. I know you've been at Microsoft forever, I think like 30 years or something like that, and you've held a lot of different positions. But now you're in the business application space and that's been fairly recent. So there's probably a lot of folks that might not be familiar with you, who should be. Vahe: Oh yeah, thanks Steve. You're right. I've been celebrating my 30 years anniversary at Microsoft in April in 2022. I actually took the helm of the Biz Apps sales organization globally in late 2020. So basically I took my one way ticket to Redmond in December 2020. And the plane was almost empty, it was during the pandemic. And it was kind of a strange feeling for someone who has been traveling so much in the past. And of course, let's say I came with the lens of the business application, of course. Having led let's say Western Europe in my past role, having all the businesses of Microsoft. And I think Western Europe was quite successful on Biz Apps, our trajectory growth. And I guess that was also in fact the good match to some degree to try to take it at the global level. Steve: So is it a little easier to think about a smaller segment of the product mix, now really being able to focus like a business application? So I think before you were looking over all sorts of different things, weren't you? Vahe: Yeah, actually it's a great question. Because I think it's very different way of looking at the business. When you are, let's say almost you are the CEO of Microsoft in the countries that you are, let's say leading. You have all the levers to engage customers, partners, government, in different circumstances. And you try to leverage as much as you can the portfolio that you have to maximize the value. In the context of let's say the business application. I think it was, the interesting bet to some degree Steve, was to say, Hey, this has been a portfolio at Microsoft, whether you call it Dynamics 365 or Dynamics only as a brand in the past. And if you go back 20 years, let's say almost, with the Navision and Axapta, and Solomon Software and Great Plains. All these stories, all these product came together. And 20 years later, I think it has been part of a portfolio somewhere. Vahe: And you had almost what I will call the strong, let's say, portfolio of Microsoft, the platform, the modern workplace and environment. And I felt the work that James Phillips in the past, and with Alyssa, and Charles, and Amy here now on the marketing side. Have been a strong inflection point to bring together both the technology in the cloud environment. But at the same time, a market environment that requires very different, let's say tools to make the most of this transformation. And I felt that there's one piece at Microsoft that requires a huge catalyst leveraging the innovation. But responding as much as we can to what the customer need or even don't know yet what they need. And I think that's what I think to me was almost a bet. It's almost like all of a sudden you move to the little dog, if I may say. But with a huge potential of transforming something with great asset for Microsoft, and the customers and partners. Steve: Well I have to say, having been involved with Microsoft for a while, we have a phrase over here called redheaded stepchild, which is kind of what Dynamics was for many, many years. It was off campus, it was just this thing out there and under Satya, when Satya came in, he's the first one that I think came into the position that recognized this should be another leg on the stool, not some remote thing out there. And I think that's made a huge. Difference because I was involved in the years before Satya with business applications and they were not just something over here on the back shelf, and now they're right front and center. I think that between Dynamics and what's happened with the power platform, cloud in general. Microsoft's ability to get into and help customers is massively different than it used to be. And in your role now, you're dealing with a lot different type of customer. You're talking about Office 365 or Azure, you're dealing with IT. And now you're mostly dealing with business users. It's a completely different audience you're having to work with today, isn't it? Vahe: Absolutely. I think also you're right since Satya took the helm of the company, to some degree you of course we have seen how we tackle the cloud computing hyper-scale environment. But at the same time, in fact what happened with the Covid in the last two years, have seen an acceleration of what we call in the past, the productivity tools to become more and more collaboration environment. And from almost an application or a set of application, it became more and more a platform on its own. And so it's almost like when you think about where we are today and we were talking about the Covid, I don't think the Covid is yet over fully everywhere. But now everybody's talking about recession, right? And there's no one headline that you look, you say, oh my goodness, what's going to happen? Which just means in terms of planning for 22, 23. Vahe: So I think the assets that is now quite unique to some degree, or differentiated as you said, between the Dynamics 365 platform components and the Power Platform, it's almost bringing together. But I think, I don't remember Steve, in a few years back, I think Satya was talking about the mobility of the experience. And that was more from a device perspective initially. But actually what you see now is that with Teams as a platform, the system of productivity almost connect with the system of record more and more. And it's re-transforming the way you are thinking. It's almost like, you think about, you don't have to go to a CRM environment or ERP environment to get access to the data. It's almost like wherever you work, if you use an Excel or if you use Teams or whatever, you get access naturally, almost intuitively to your data set. And the data set are that's almost fulfilled naturally. And so we have no additional task. Vahe: And so I think that's the transformation world in which we are. Which connects cheaper well. We almost do more with less, right? And that's going to be almost the conversation we're going to have in the coming month. And it started already with many customers and partners. How we can optimize the assets that they have, how they can let's say increase the deep provisioning of some assets that they have. They are paying too much to concentrate a bit more, to get more agility. And I think this is where also, from a partner perspective, Steve, I see a lot of potential. You are referring to Power Platform, it's fascinating to see what it was in the very beginning, this notion of citizens developer, what does it mean? Vahe: People didn't know exactly what it is, we're quite afraid to touch it. But now when you see the shortage of developers in the market in general. And how you can make the most of some absolutely topnotch people who are not developer, touching the last mile execution challenges. Have been facing crazy environment and situation that they say, I can't believe how my IT guide doesn't solve these things. I've been telling them the customer pain point for so many years. And now with some, let's say [inaudible 00:08:45] place, let's say available for them, along with some let's say technical assets, you can really make the magic in the very, very, very time. Steve: Charles came up with a term on the fly, ambient CRM. Kind of where we're heading here when you talk about things like Viva Sales and some of these pieces that are really wiring all these components together. Covid was a terrible thing, but it certainly was a perfect storm for pushing the technology forward into a place that it's been fighting to get to, it's really been fighting to get to that point. And Teams was a great product. But certainly Covid created the perfect environment where Teams made insane sense for companies that were maybe just thinking about it or dabbling with it, and suddenly they're all diving into it. And you guys of course poured the investment on top of that. And I think that the silver lining of Covid, for technology, is how far it really allowed it to advance in that period of time. Maybe we just need a pandemic every five years to push a technology forward. I don't know. Vahe: No, but I have to say that even in my previous role when I was running Western Europe. Even the most skeptical people in regard to the cloud or the transition to a cloud environment. Having the one that rushed in the first, almost to a cloud environment, once the pandemic has been a bit of a real situation to face, and to drive the economy or the public services let's say on. So I think you're right, so you don't want to wish for another pandemic or whatever, but it has been absolutely a forcing function in many domains. And that's true. Steve: I think the challenge we have is particularly in the business application space. You guys have launched so many things in such a short period of time. And as you mentioned before, Power Apps, people picking it with a stick, they don't even know what it is. And there's also this first mover fear, I think. Microsoft has been, in my mind, kind of famous for coming to the game late and then just taking over the game. We were very late to the cloud, but once we got there we just took over the cloud, and it seems to be a pattern. But when you look back at the early days of cloud before you guys stepped into it, it was wild west. And all sorts of challenges with cloud. And I think that that gave a lot of people fear about, I remember I moved into cloud early and we got destroyed. Steve: And so I think there's a lot of folks out there, just from a technology standpoint, that have gotten their hands burnt by moving too quickly. And we're at that point with the platform and dynamics, where these are not new anymore. Relatively in history, they're new. But they're not new products and they're not built by some garage shop somewhere with a couple of developers. This is what 15,000 people building this stuff back there. This is professionally built, well built stuff, that is ready for prime time. So the first movers have already come through and they all survived. So I really feel like we're at that point where it should just take off now, it should just absolutely take off. And I'm sure you guys are seeing this. Vahe: Yeah. And Steve, I think one thing also is that you're right, there's a usual thing about let's say the first mover advantage. At the same time from a customer perspective, you don't want to be the Guinea pig, right? On any situation, especially from the technology standpoint. I think that increasingly what I see in the conversation is that there's almost now, because of the quality of the native integration of the several different applications. Whether you are in the customer experience environment, on the service side, on the supply chain, on the finance or the local no code or app. All these components are absolutely connected to each other. And basically whether you have Teams as a platform in your company, or Azure in environment, all these component are connected very, very easily to each other. Vahe: And so I would say that the beauty of it now is that you have all almost the notion of marginal cost. If you really want to leverage many of the assets that we can bring, and you don't have to take all of them at once, of course it has to be matching what you need now. But the right is that, let's say there's an almost fully integrated benefit all the connectors with the rest of the world outside of Microsoft environment, which is a great value for the partners, ISV and [inaudible 00:13:58], and at the same time to the customers. Who think now, hey I should do more with less. How should I think about my investments for the next, let's say five years? Most of the customers now are really thinking about the longer term relationship. And defining what's the value SLA almost that you're expecting both from the partner of the vendor and the vendor itself. Vahe: And so it's almost like, you remember when we transition from a world of build revenue and licensing, to now more consumption and usage. It's almost the user and consumption discussion is a forcing function about the customer success, how we align on the same definition of the customer success. And what's the time to value that you committed? What are the key milestones, in full transparency, that you need to bring in? And I think that's where we are now. And because Microsoft, I think overall as a company, have been increasing tremendously the level of trust. From the security standpoint, the compliance components, and so on, and the scalability. Vahe: I think that's the great leverage for us now in terms of the conversation and making sure that the customers are getting the value that we have been selling to them. How we show how much skin in the game we have to make them successful. And then it's a flying wheel. It's almost like the innovation will help you to bring new things, respond, anticipate, take the feedback of the customer to the engineering, develop new stuff quickly to the market. So I think it's what we are heading to now, Steve. And I think from a partner perspective you might even see and feel it, right, more and more. Steve: Oh yeah, I mean I think the sales motion has changed completely. Only a few years ago we go into a customer and try and convince them to replace Salesforce with Dynamics. And they'd say no, and we were done. We'd say okay, well we'll come back in a couple years and ask again. We had nothing else to sell them. And now today, I mean if they have Salesforce, fine that's great, keep Salesforce, let's add some things around it. Salesforce will work with Viva Sales, Salesforce will work with Power Platform. Steve: There's so many doors now, I think, for a seller to be able to get into a customer and solve problems for that customer without having to do the one big yank and replace. Which is very difficult to do, it's difficult to do on opposite as well. I mean once a customer gets a big solution like Salesforce or Dynamics 365 installed, those are very difficult to uproot, it takes a very long time. And you guys have created now, this product mix, where we don't have to uproot something to sell that customer and to get engaged with that customer. We can go all over that business without having to uproot something. And I think that's huge. Vahe: I agree Steve. And I think that it's almost this notion of rip and replace type of strategy, right? In some cases it works because this is what the customer wants. They are fed up about let's say competitive environment that didn't deliver on the expectation. And we should be ready to cope with that and respond, and we have a lot of this. But at the same time as you said, what we call the strategy of having a hub and spoke, let's say, almost environment, gives us for every line of business. That we decided as a company to go and have a significant acceleration of growth and market share, is very much to give that option to say, Hey, you know what, Mr. Customer, Mrs. Customer, you decide to be on that type of environment, who we are to ask you to change? Vahe: If you are happy that's fine. But what we can bring you is almost to enhance what you have with some component that absolutely will be transparently integrated to what you're using. And it's a great circuit, an additional circuit for the partner, it's a great value for the customer. We don't feel harassed to change something because we know the cost of transitioning from one to another one. And then it's up to us to demonstrate the value we can bring and eventually we can take from there to the next level in the future. Steve: It's got to put some pressure on the competitors also. I if think of, I might just use Salesforce because they've always been the big competitor. I'm sure that they were confident sitting there at their large customer when all we had was trying to replace their instance that was going to be difficult to do and then we'd go away and they didn't have to worry about us. Now we're coming in and we're circling around, and we're solving problems in this department, and we're building apps in this department, and we're literally bolting into Salesforce. And one potential outcome is that the customer decides over time that wow, all of this Microsoft stuff that we've brought in works really, really well. Steve: That's gotta put some pressure on the incumbent big application in there that hey, you're surrounded by a bunch of stuff the customer is very happy with, you better make sure they're happy with your stuff and they don't reach that point. Cause like you say, oftentimes when you see those rip and replace, it's because the product, or the company, or something hasn't met the expectation. And to be fair, that could actually happen with any of us, right? It has a lot to do with implementation, design, how thing was put together. Less to do with the application itself, that could happen to any vendor. But certainly raises the bar to some of these competitors when they're surrounded by well performing Microsoft products that are satisfying customers. Would you think? Vahe: Yes. Absolutely. And that's why there's a continuity between what we sell, how we sell, to who we sell, and how we drive the implementation. It's an ongoing wheel that is a very different mindset that we all learn in the transition to the cloud, let's say, environment. But absolutely. I think it's a good forcing function to raise the bar to some degree, raise the bar for the benefit of the customer. You mentioned the competitiveness of what this type of hub and spoke strategy can create. You're right. But in the end, the biggest, let's say winner, will be the customer, right? Which I think is always and should always be the north star for us and our partners. Vahe: And I would say the relevance of the innovation should be in fact the pressure that we put to each other to make sure that say we listen carefully to what the customer is facing as a challenge, but potentially to translate their current challenge into the future challenge, to push them also to think differently. Because I think the notion of rip and replace [inaudible 00:21:06] One of the thing was, I don't know if you remember that the initial issue and worry was that people were saying Oh, we are moving to the cloud, therefore we are transforming. Well it was not that tried and true. People were just keeping the same processes in the cloud and the one that they had on premise. Which was not benefiting at all of the scalability and the agility of the cloud environment. Yeah, you remember that right? Yeah. Steve: They just changed the way they were paying for it. Vahe: Absolutely. Absolutely. So I think that's what we have seen on this application modernization, on some of the enterprise wide innovation also opportunities that we had discussed, is how much you can really say, in this new world of competitiveness, of un-expected challenges. How you can, let's say, keep your applications fitting always in fact proactively the challenges that you're going to have too. As opposed to keep going with a quite heavy code to maintain, with people who leave that cost you a fortune to maintain. So I think this agility that the power apps, [inaudible 00:22:22] to made, have been bringing I think is the reason why we have seen this huge acceleration of growth, which is today is six, seven times faster than the market growth of local no code. Vahe: So I think it's a great, let's say indication, of what people start to realize. And I think in the conversation that you had with Charles when he was referring to, hey some of the AI capability have been slower to be picked up by the vast majority of customers. And it's true because there's a level of, let's say, can I trust this thing? Am I going to lose completely ground and control of what I'm doing? All these natural thing. I think as we bring more and more, let's say tools, are manageable. The Power Platform environment, or let's say the device sales capability on top of the teams or Salesforce environment. That people will start to test this. Vahe: And I think we're going to be more and more advocate about Hey, what are the benefits of the organization that are using this technology and how we can trust them lean forward. And I think Charles was referring to our digital sellers. Their daily life is very much, let's say, using all these AI lead capabilities in terms of reporting, in terms of let's say incident management, in terms of even coaching for themselves to do a better call next time, is just fascinating to see. Maybe we should even do a kind of, let's say talk on this, once we have a bit more, let's say after the GA, maybe a few months after, we should have, let's say what the key learnings and [inaudible 00:24:00] from a customer standpoint. Steve: Yeah, it always makes a customer confident when they know that the vendor is using the product that they're trying to sell them. It's interesting, everything moving to a subscription has changed kind of the mindset, not just of you guys obviously, where there's no big sale. There's a sale of a big subscription, the revenue of which will come over a long period of time. But the customer has this option every month to say, you know what, I'm not happy, you're not solving my problem. In the old days they were kind of stuck, they bought all this stuff and they had to make it work. Now they don't have to make it work, we have to make it work, we have to keep them happy enough. Steve: We recently launched a professional services on a subscription, which is an interesting model, that I lay awake at night thinking about that same thing. That before a customer would pay you a bunch of money to a bunch of stuff and now they're paying you a little bit of money every month for as long as you keep them happy. And this bar of, I mean we've always wanted to keep customers happy. But it's never had the impact or importance that it does when you're on a subscription with that customer who can just any time say, “I'm not happy, goodbye.” It raises the bar I think for you guys to have to continuously innovate, what do you done for me lately? You got to continuously innovate and bring new things. And you've got more motivation probably than the company's ever had in history because of the subscription model. Do you feel that internally? Vahe: Yes, yes. As I said, it has been a great enabler to raise the bar. And it's almost like you know can have a beautiful slide deck and saying the right things, but the execution doesn't match what you are saying somehow, that you don't walk the talk. I think you could have been in that situation in a kind of on-premise environment. I think the cloud has been a forcing function to say, hey you know what, you can claim you are customer success, or you are customer first, or you are customer obsessed. But the reality is that if you don't deliver the service properly, if you are not as responsive timely, if you're not proactive, customer will say enough is enough, I can stop my subscription. Steve: I have options. Vahe: I have options. So I think it's a good hygiene, how it makes you having an embracing habits, that I would say are the natural thing when you engage with customer. But I think it's almost, let's say, for the one who might have forgotten that basics, it has been a great, let's say, opportunity to bring back the roots of what is it to satisfy a customer, right? And I think that's what the cloud licensing model helped put together. And I think there are still always room for improvement. Vahe: And similarly I would say, what you have seen on the collaborative applications, what we have seen on the low-code, no-code, you are going to see it now, also I would say on the supply chain environment, which is shipper, shipper at stress because of what we have seen on the Covid, but also in fact on the geopolitical aspect and some of the recession discussion. And also, on the overall, what I would say the contact center in our environment at large. How this world is going to change is going to be led a lot by the capability that technology can bring, and the ability to listen carefully to the strategies and the challenges of the corporation that are involved in. So it's quite exciting actually. Steve: I don't get involved a lot with the call center operations. But I picture the old call center is this massive building full of cubicles and people with headphones. And I picture that now that most of those people are probably working remote. A call center now could operate at my desk, just about, and have thousands of people all working from their home. So, that whole industry feels like it's changed significantly. And yes, I'm sure they're starving for the technology that fits the model that they're being pushed to adopt. Vahe: Yeah, yeah absolutely. I mean it's interesting, if you summarize some of the business challenges or the things that are coming from multiple conversation. We had the nuanced [inaudible 00:29:04] a few months back. And so it's almost the first fiscal year where we're going to be able to strategize, operate together as one organization. And it's great because somehow you take their own experience in terms of conversational AI and what they have been leading in for many years. And at the same time you hear both, let's say, the customer feedback when it comes to, as you said, the traditional contact center or call center evolution. How to translate this into a modern service experience, right? Vahe: And how AI can contribute to that on the seamless integrated way. How to think about customer retention in this world where people are a bit more struggling with their bottom line. How to protect the customer privacy as well. Because you talk about voice capability and recording, but how you cope with the privacy and the security during this service journey. So all these are absolutely great opportunities for us to combine what we're hearing, the technology and the acquisition that we did a few months back, to put that into a great component. And I would say the data analytics that the power Platform Power BI gives us on the back end, is going to be a great platform for us again to differentiate from the rest of the world. Steve: Well and it'll also help kind offset the fact that these people are all remote now, right? They used all be sitting in this big room. And people were standing up there looking over a rail at them making sure they were doing what they were doing and available. And you can't lose any of the customer service quality just because you've moved everybody out of the building and nobody can physically see them anymore. AI is the only way to plug that hole really of being able to know what's going on in this organization with all those people remote. In your day-to-day activities, I'm assuming that since you're head of sales that you get engaged with all of the big opportunities that come to Microsoft. And you're in there leading the charge to get them to make a decision for the services. What are the areas that you're seeing among those larger customers that they're really excited about? Is it the low-code stuff, is that very exciting to them? Or are they still wrapping their arms around that? Vahe: No, no. I would say that the notion of, let's say, application modernization, which doesn't mean I do the same thing I was doing before in the cloud. Really thinking about, what do I want to fix? And how much I can include some perspective about what could happen in some, let's say options or scenario? That capability that Power Apps has been giving them. And now we see that the corporations who are the most successful are the one who are almost creating a center of excellence within their own organization, that let's say help the IT to monitor someone, in fact the usage rate. But also to amplify the user experience and to spread it across the organization. And the ability to almost measure the positive impact. Vahe: The second thing I've seen is on the low-code, no-code, is the time to value. It's almost like you can almost now, and when I say “we,” it's almost we with the partners. We can almost say for this type of let's say expectation, or application, or challenge, it will take three month to be ready, not three years, two years. Or we have a heavy development environment. And so this center of excellence, let's say mindset or framework, is a very powerful one. Because it helps to almost create a concentration of hey, what are the most critical things to fix and how long it's going to take? Vahe: And people are almost, let's say very impressed, about how quickly you can have great quality because you bring both the expertise of, as I said, almost the person who is facing the challenge every single day. Being non-technical guy, we have in fact the support of IT. And I think that's the business decision makers along with the IT. I think to me, that's why we have been on this six, seven times faster than the market rate. We have huge ambition there. And be aware that we have also 20 million of users of Power Apps today that came from the city campaigns. So people are actively using it, not yet paying it. So that means that it's great, it's the future almost by, for us to go after. Because people are starting to use in fact at least the basic functions to get adjusted customers to and so on. Vahe: The second thing I would say is that people have realized how easy it is, and recognizing that Teams became a platform close to 300 million users. It started at 25 or 30 million almost pre-pandemic. And so that became, almost as you said, you are at home, or you are wherever you are and that's the interaction that you have with your customers, partners, ecosystem and employees. And so now it's a marginal component to say hey, can I have one tab that is going to do that type of task? My forecasting, my thing. So this is again the connection between what you use every single day at scale, and the marginal cost of bringing a component of Dynamics 365, a component of the application that you create quickly for Power Apps or Power Automate from the process, implementation, and automation. So I think that's what I see the two biggest part of the customer reaction, and I would say feedback for us. And encouragement to be fair, to keep going in that direction. Steve: We've got lots of examples that you guys have got out on the case studies of large companies that have really got in head first. And just thousands of apps in the organization solving thousands of problems. And just excellent, I mean you just have to almost grin when you look and hear about these things. But for every one of those there's still a bunch of them out there where, I don't know, IT maybe is still an obstacle. I mean IT has been, it's interesting because IT's been a friend of Microsoft for a long time because a lot of the products that they have engaged with were Microsoft products, servers, et cetera. They've had to make this transition to cloud, which was scary for them. But they ultimately did it for the most part, not all of them, did it. And now here comes low-code, no-code that's got to scare the bejesus out of a lot of IT folks. And how are you at that company size? Because frankly, we struggle with the same thing in the mid-market. How, at that big company size, do you deal with that occasional obstinance from it? Vahe: Yeah, it's a great point. You're right. I think Microsoft in general, I don't want to generalize, but in general have been for the last four years, very, very close to the IT decision makers. And rightfully so, because there were so many and still so many things to achieve in partnership with the IT and CIO environment. At the same time, when it comes to business applications or business process, I would say that you need to find the balance between the business decision makers, who are the ultimate decision makers when it comes to what is going to affect their business, or the way they work from a Salesforce perspective, or the way the marketing leaders wants to automate some of the processes that they believe is important. Vahe: And so that we probably are in a unique business case at Microsoft, where you have to talk to both. And the learning is that in the very beginning where you were only talking to IT, for example in the low-code, no-code, you could have signed a deal with IT, but then you know almost had to start to sell it again internally. Because you had to knock to all the doors of the business decision makers to say, Hey, do you know that you have this thing in your corporation, and anyway this is the thing that you can do, do you mind starting over there? Vahe: And so that was basically almost a waste of cycle. And so we said we have to do these two things together. We need to be able to articulate what is the value of low-code, no-code, maybe in FSI, financial service, or manufacturing, or in retail. And of course there's a strong common denominator. But there are some specifics that may resonate more for some industries more than others, and therefore the decision makers. And we have seen that when we do these things well together in parallel, when you sign the contract, or the deal, or the agreement, the time to move to usage or the business case implementation is much faster. Basically you bring more value both to IT and the business, and for Microsoft. And so I think that's the piece where I think it evolved on low-code, no-code, from being afraid in the beginning or skeptical, to a place where they are increasingly embracing this center of excellence environment. Where they own it as [inaudible 00:38:55]. It is connected to the business decision makers, therefore it brings value. Vahe: And so IT brings value to the business decisions or the business unit and the line of business. And then what was missing so far was, how can we give them the monitoring environment, almost the control board to manage the budget, to manage let's say, or having warning to say, hey, business A, you know are over consuming. Should we lower the investment or should we accelerate because of what you are doing? So I think that the kind of tools that we are bringing now to the IT, so that they are absolutely part of the success of the company and they are connected to the business decision makers. I think that's the best way for us to demonstrate value and keep it completely aligned with the business directions. Steve: And the opposite would be true also if you're going in trying to sell the line of business owner without talking to IT. And you convince the, now you got to go sell IT. So it's two cycles. Vahe: Absolutely. Steve: You have to somehow get them both in the same room and do it at once. So we've got so many products coming, we've got so many products here. And if you imagine a generic customer of a large size that you're going to be going to talk to next week about all the Microsoft has to offer. What are a couple of the key products that you're going to want to make sure you land in their head, that you feel across all companies are extremely high value or differentiators? The thing you don't want to walk out of that room without mentioning? Vahe: Yeah, I would say, and somehow you touch on it Steve, earlier on. As part of the transition that we are driving, one of the thing is also to simplify. To simplify the portfolio, to simplify the go-to market, to simplify the strategy. We discussed the hub and spoke, let's say strategy. And so I would say at the very beginning, what we said is that instead of saying, hey, there's a proliferation of products. And every year we add more and more and more. And at some point you confuse your own sellers, you confuse the customer, you confuse the product, it's super tough to digest everything, and even understanding what's the hierarchy across all these things? Steve: For licensing Vahe: And licensing on top all this complexity, right? I mean we have gone through it, and it's still not perfect. But at the same time I think what we said is that there are the categories, or the line of business, that we want to go in. We want to have a fair shot to take a leadership position in the next let's say years. And what it takes to get to that point, from an innovation perspective, from a go-to market perspective, from a part program perspective, from a sales and seller investment capacity perspective. And so on. And so I would say that's more the starting point Steve, where we say we define five categories, a fine line of business, where we believe we have a shot to become a leader. And these categories we need to be able to be clear on where the value that we bring. Vahe: For example, if you take the customer experience, let's say OLAP, which is more the connected sales and marketing, if I may summarize at the high level. It's going to be all the conversation about the collaborative apps, the customer experience transformation. You have already Teams for the vast batch of you, hey that's what you want to achieve. The Dynamic 65 sales is going to give you that capability, or the LinkedIn Sales Navigator on top of it is going to give you that type of insight. You know are not touching about AI, you think about almost sales automation, Salesforce automation. Let's show you how the AI infused capability within Dynamics 365 sales and marketing, give you that asset absolutely naturally integrated on your team's environment. Vahe: And same thing on Viva Sales, the sales productivity, we can measure it the way you want, and you're on control of that. And by the way, if it works on the environment that you are working, could be Microsoft, could not be as we discussed, that's more the conversation that we want to have. And of course on the back end you are going to have Dynamics 365 sales, and marketing, and Viva sales, most of the time for that line of business. If you think about let's say low-code no-code, I would say you will have probably three type of conversations. You know will have a conversation about hey, you're a large enterprise, multi-deals coverage. And basically the benefit of having an enterprise wide, let's say engagement, what does it mean? What's the framework for you to make the most of it? And how we commit with our partners to deliver you the value. Vahe: And so you can commit on five years maybe with Microsoft and how much value we can bring already to you. Or it's purely an application modernization. You move to a hyper-scale environment, but you have all these old fashioned applications. So basically, you are a platform that is modern but all your application are still old fashioned. How low-code, no-code is going to help you to accelerate that transition. And let's start with one company, one app. Pick one and let's do it right, and then replicate from there. And then potentially, in fact, the last one which I think is going to be the biggest one potentially, is the business process automation. Think about the forecasting process. I have to say that when I was running my business in Western Europe, we have been doing this traditional forecasting process, which in every company when we talk with business leaders or CFOs, that's the same thing. You ask the forecast at the lowest level of the organization, then the manager of that organization, do a judgment. That judgment moves to the next level of management. The management do another judgment. Vahe: So all the way up to the top level, who does a judgment anyway on top of it. Or they find, depending on who is doing the forecast, almost let's say a coefficient of let's say correction based on who is doing the forecast. When you start to do that thing into AI and you say what, we know the behavior of people [inaudible 00:45:26] potentially, you come after 18 months or one year to a trend of forecast that is so close to in fact what you were getting before. That you say how many hours, thousands and thousands of hours of productivity saving I'm going to have just because of this AI forecasting capability? That's the kind of example of it, for say an application for low-code, no-code, that is just checking in fact the behavior or the intelligence so far to help you to drive your business. Vahe: And so we have been running that internally as well and it's quite impressive. And so that's the kind of conversation that you want to have both with the IT, but you see this perfect example of hey, having that conversation with the CFO, or the sales leader, is a great one. Because it's a marginal cost again, to what you are using already. And the same thing happened on finance, and supply chain, and service when it comes to, all right so where you, what are you using? Are you still on-prem? The vast majority of ERP, the vast majority of contact center and call center are still on-prem. So you can think about hey, what does it take to move to a cloud and more agile environment? What are the best that you want to do? Which is the strategic partner or vendor, who are going to take this? Because you're not going to change this environment every two years. It's a 5 year, 10 year bets, right? Steve: The marriage. Vahe: It's a marriage. Yeah, absolutely. So I mean does it help Steve? Steve: Yeah. And I think interesting, one of the things I think about AI in forecasting, is it doesn't have any personal bias. And obviously in larger companies I'm sure there's a lot of checking and cross checking. In the middle market it's a bunch of optimistic sales people coming up with optimistic projections that have no basis in history or anything else that's going on, of what's going on. And I've been in meetings where we've been displaying some AI facts, or figures, or forecasts, or projections. And listen to senior people just adamantly disagree. That number is absolutely not correct. And I've had them tell me I've been doing this for 30 years, I know, I know. And then here comes next month and guess what was right? The AI model was right and the guy who's been doing it for 30 years is making up some excuses. Steve: So I think that the world right now is fraught with bad projections on everything. Cost projections, sales projections, there's too much personal bias involved in the process of creating those things. And as leadership of a company, you're relying on these things. They're going to drive you right over a cliff potentially, if you're not careful, if you don't have good information, if you can't get the bias out of it. And I think that's one of the big things that AI brings that I've found resonates with leadership sometimes, is kind of remove all the bias. I mean it's just removing all the bias. You don't want to hear smoke, you know want to hear reality so you can act accordingly. You're surrounded by a bunch of people who want to make you feel good, but AI doesn't care how you feel. It's going to tell you the truth, doesn't care if you get mad. Vahe: Steve also, it's interesting because sometime, you point to this that sometime when you are too early on the innovation, some people might be again scared or skeptical as we said. But I remember we were looking at let's say some numbers when it comes to, are we operating consistency, for example, in the world? Or there are some that say practices that are bringing more growth or more relevant than other places. And so, one thing was interesting was in the services line of business or category, you think of case management. And it's one of the opportunities. And you might say well case management is not super innovative. Well, it's something that is quite well known. But case management was one of the fastest growth in majors. And that was because it was responding to the fact that vast majority of the case management processes are still on-prem today. Vahe: And the one we're moving to the cloud, especially in public sector, to make sure that the queuing system is working, you have a full up, let's say email to tell you and tracing where you are on the request that you put in place. All these things we believe is generic everywhere, but it's not, it's by far not. And across mid-market, and large corporation, and private sector, and public sector. So it's not always innovation that drives in fact the next generation of work. It's also in fact the basics that are not fulfilled today and that create a bad customer experience. And that's interesting, in a way, to keep very humble about let's say what we still have on our plate. Steve: I can remember not that long ago, when you talk about customer service, the goal of many companies was to provide as bad as service as possible so they didn't have to do it. I mean it was a cost center for them. They hadn't come to the realization yet, this is decades, but hadn't come to realization yet that customer service is what drives future revenue. They just looked at as a cost center and figured the worst it is, the less people will use it and it'll cost us less, so that mindset has changed. You talk about fears that people have of technology. And so a lot of this is people self preservation fears. They see something coming, we saw it even in the partner channel, uh-oh here comes low-code, no-code, customers are going to be doing all the work themselves, they're not going to need us partners anymore. And it's like this first reaction that people have about anything new, is how's that going to affect me? And generally they're going to assume negatively. Steve: Our business is busier than we've ever been as a result of low-code. So it's actually been the opposite. But partners, and just like people, you know need to be prepared to pivot into that wind. If you're just going to stand there with your arms crossed and not move, yeah low-code's going to hurt you. You know need to lean into that. And the same thing with individuals that are looking at new technology. It's coming and you can either stand there with your arms crossed and let it knock you down, which is a foregone conclusion. Or you can bend with it. And to be honest, the younger folks are more flexible than us older folks. So they're not having any trouble with this technology at all. We recently signed a new customer, it's all young people and man they just get it. I mean there's no explaining anything. They understand every single thing you're talking about, why and what. And I mean they're born with a cell phone in their hand. None of this is foreign, but we still got to get rid of all of us old guys. Vahe: I agree, I agree. And time flies. And it's almost like, often, let's say, you need read to embrace that. Always a zero regret strategy in this type of, let's say, evolving environment. Anything that you postpone, to some degree, is almost let say a loss. And that has been proven in the technology run. And when I look at, we always have to be humble. It's a highly competitive market, and people are smart, and that's great. Cause as we discussed, it's all good for the customer. But I think that when I look back to the commitment of the company, the investment that we put in place last year with the support of Satya, Amy Hood, [inaudible 00:53:27]. With more than 1000 sellers injected in the marketplace, we keep going on the investment on the local no-code, even more so to drive the acceleration of the growth in addition to the Dynamic 365. Vahe: When I look at every category that we are in now, and I think it's a good confidence level that we on the path here. That first of all, we are between two times and three times the growth of the market for each of these category, that's a good indication. And I think that also raise the confidence level of the product sellers at Microsoft. To bring these different components together and add more value to the customer. So look, it's a journey Steve, and it's quite exciting to be on this. And people like yourself because we have been there also for a long time, and you know what it takes to transition. And you never fail, you learn always. And everything that you learn and that works, it's almost to think how we can scale and bring that to the mass as quick as we can so that people can benefit from it. Steve: Well success breeds success. And you know guys have got it going right now. I've taken up enough of your time. Anything that you want to get out there that I didn't ask or we didn't talk about? Vahe: No, I think, Steve, you did a good overview of let's say where we are, how we think. Again, I think that the simplification, the portfolio, the much more focused approach, the category, and more consistent execution on the go-to market is really the next level for us. And the hub and spoke strategy across all these categories gives much more room to increase the business opportunity for us and the partners. Steve: Yep, I think so, I think so. All right, listen, it was great talking to you, I'm glad you made the time. And I definitely hope to able to talk to you again in the future, get something new to talk about. Any time you want to reach out, and jump on, and talk about some stuff, let me know. We're happy to get you on. Vahe: We are all, let's say reading all these, let's say headlines on the recession. In a few months from now, between now and then of calendar year, we're to see a bit more clarity on how the planning is happening for the mid-market, large corporation, how the public sector is evolving in this dimension. And also, we'll have a few, let's say product launched that we talked about, Viva Sales, any learning from that, let's say maybe the first two, three months, would be interesting to see how people react. And maybe that could be a great opportunity for us to chat. Also what's going on the [inaudible 00:56:17] Steve: Yeah, yeah. Vahe: Plenty of things to talk, I guess. Steve: Sounds good. All right, well hey, thanks again for your time. Vahe: Thank you. Take care Steve, have a great day.

It's Joël's first episode as host of The Bike Shed!

Steve Hall is an executive sales coach and Australia's leading C-level sales authority. He brings with him decades of experience in several industries and roles, from bricklaying to middle management to sales leadership to executive consulting. He learned that even the most complex sales involving millions of dollars still boil down to the basics: sales is a people business. He shares how to get in the mindset of a C-level executive, create a message that gets you a longer conversation about your solution, and find the best way to send that message as cold emails do not work with the C-level. HIGHLIGHTS Sell to the person who has the authority to approve  Focus on accounts, not leads: Sales is about creating relationships  A conversation with the C-level is going to be about strategy Get a meeting with the C-level then prepare for it QUOTES Even complex sales are about relationships Steve: "One of the biggest sales I made, the COO of an 8 billion dollar company in the states, or UK actually, wanted to meet the president of our company not to look at how the software works, but look him in the eye and say, will you support us if we get in trouble? At the end of the day, it's still about relationships. I'm not saying people will buy off you because you've got a good relationship, but they shouldn't buy off you if you haven't got a good relationship because that's a huge part of making things work." Empathy and business knowledge are important when selling to the c-level Steve: "To be able to talk intelligently, business, to a senior executive, you've got to be vaguely intelligent and know a little bit about business. And you also need to have the capability of putting yourself in the shoes of the person you're speaking to. That's one of the most important and least understood skills of the salesperson—look at things from your customer's perspective."  The two things you need to speak to the C-level Steve: "You need two things. You need a message which will make them want to talk to you, and you need a way to get it to them. And the message depends on the circumstances but it could be we want to help you reduce the risk in your automotive department, for instance, or reduce the downtime on your machine, so whatever it might be for that particular customer." Find out more about Steve in the link below: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevehallsydney/ More on Andy: Connect on LinkedIn Get Andy's new book "Sell Without Selling Out" on Amazon Learn more at AndyPaul.com Sponsored by: Revenue.io | Unlock exponential growth with an AI-powered RevOps platform | Revenue.io Scratchpad | The fastest way to update Salesforce, take sales notes, and stay on top of to-dos | Scratchpad.com Blueboard | World's leading experiential rewards & recognition platform | Blueboard.com Explore the Revenue.io Podcast Universe: Sales Enablement Podcast RevOps Podcast Selling with Purpose Podcast

Are you presenting yourself professionally as a resource or as a salesperson to your potential clients? This week we have with us in the OTB studio Kacia and Seena, good friends of the show who recently had their own unique set of circumstances that made finding the right real estate professional a huge priority. This continues what we were talking about last week with Bernie's story of finding a new home: building a professional relationship of trust with your clients is so important to building your professional reputation.   The No-Sale Sale   You never know what kind of situation potential clients might be coming to you with when you first interact with them. They could just be looking for a new home, or they might be dealing with property that they have no idea what to do with. More often than not, it will be some of the biggest purchases or sales that they've ever dealt with, and so need someone who can help them navigate all the ins and outs of the real estate market. Every interaction is an opportunity to showcase that outside the box thinking that will keep them coming back to you when they need that specialized help.   Sometimes this kind of client care can take the shape of giving advice that might lead the client away from your services. This is about building that trust between you and the client by always giving them the advice that would best benefit them, no matter where that might lead them. Ultimately, this is an industry about people and relationships, and establishing yourself as a leader in the market by always looking out for a client's best interests will help establish you as one.   “I think it's super important that you have a closer that not only possesses the technical knowledge but actually has people skills. I've been in this for 18 years now, and I've seen these escrow officers go from transactional to today where the expectation really has to be a little bit more hands on and personal. And finally, I think that you need to talk to escrow officers that are just as invested in getting something closed as you are.” – Bernie   “We don't get paid unless you get paid. So, we have every vested interest in making sure that this transaction closes. And not only does it close on time, but that you had a pleasant experience.” – Bernie   “The thing that I'm really hoping to change, I think about this in the long term, is that if you know how to build wealth, and you're starting off on this path with me and understanding how many more people can you impact and change their lives?” – Steve   “I see a lot of people in our industry where they were phenomenal successful producers 10 years ago, and now they're coaches and they're just using theory from 10 years ago. I've been working through chaotic problems this week, you know, they're good problems working with agents to try and solve problems. But I can only do it because I'm still in it.” - Steve   ​​You can find Kacia at: https://www.instagram.com/shegoes.company/?hl=en   You can find Seena at: https://www.instagram.com/seena.ghetmiri/?hl=en     We're ready to hear from you! Have a question or topic you'd like us to cover? Send us a message at: Steve's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stevedvalentine/ Bernie's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bernzpix/   You can find us on all the major Podcast apps: Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify, Stitcher, and more! Subscribe to be notified when new episodes are live and leave us a review and 5-star rating to help the show grow!

Welcome to Life in the Leadership Lane where I am talking to leaders making a difference in the workplace and in our communities. How did they get to where they are and what are they doing to stay there! Buckle up and get ready to accelerate in the Leadership Lane! This week, I am talking with Steve Gilliland, Author, Hall of Fame Speaker and SHRM22 Featured Speaker in New Orleans. How did Steve get started in his career? What led him to the world of Speaking? What does Steve share about speaking at SHRM for the past 15 years? What does the SHRMconference theme “Cause The Effect” mean to Steve? What does Steve share about his 6th grade teacher? What does Steve share about his presentation “Making A Difference”? What does Steve share about Laughing, Listening, and Learning? What does Steve share about Passion, Purpose, and Pride? What does Steve share about “being on someone's list”? …and more as we spend “Time to Accelerate” with a few more questions. Interview resources: Favorite quote(s) from Steve: “You can change the trajectory of someone's life in a single moment.” “If you're laughing, you're listening, and if you're listening, you're learning.” Connect with Steve on LinkedIn(mention podcast) Visit “Gilliland Foundation” here Register for SHRM 22 Conference and Expo Steve's book recommendation to support Gilliland Foundation: The Story about Margaret Check out Bruce's books NEW Life in the Leadership Lane Moving Leaders to Inspire and Change the Workplace “Find Your Lane Change your GPS, Change your Career (“Book Authority” Best Books) “Milemarkers” A 5 Year Journey …helping you record daily highlights to keep you on track. Subscribe to Bruce's Blog “Move to Inspire” Connect with Bruce on LinkedIn Connect with Bruce on Twitter Connect with Bruce on Instagram Connect with Bruce on Facebook Get relocation support for your next household goods or commercial office move across the US by reaching out to Bruce at bwaller@goarmstrong.com or visit Armstrong Relocation https://www.armstrongrelocation.com/ Visit www.brucewaller.com for more information on Life in the Leadership Lane podcast and more!

Were you thrust into a leadership position without a lot of training and preparation? Have you risen rapidly as a leader and find yourself a bit uncertain? Or maybe you're a founder making things up as you go, and finding yourself managing other incredible people. Being a leader who has to learn on the job can be intimidating and scary. Imposter syndrome and its sibling, the inner critic, can leave you struggling to be your best. And all of this is only compounded when you have brilliant people on your team who are smarter or better than you at their job. That's why we have VC turned leadership coach Steve Schlafman on to talk about how you can navigate all of this and thrive as a leader, even when you're on your own to figure out this leadership thing. Some helpful links related to the topics we covered:Conscious Leadership Group by Diana Chapman and Jim DethmerUnarguables: https://conscious.is/excercises-guides/speaking-unarguably 68% of managers are afraid to communicate with their teams. Learn what you can do to be like the 32% that aren't.  How to embrace curiosity as a leader. Shirzad Chamine - Inner critic: https://www.positiveintelligence.com/about/ Books we discussed:Non-Violent Communication by Marshall RosenbergOFNR: Observe - Feeling - Need - Request structure outlined here: https://drlwilson.com/ARTICLES/NONVIOLENT_COMMUNICATION.htm   Key actions for you to take today from the interview: Be open and curious rather than closed and defensive: Embrace what you don't know and look for opportunities to learn from others, even your own team. Question the stories about yourself: Ask yourself what stories run in your mind and if they're helpful for you and your goals. Have self-acceptance and compassion: No one is harder on you than you. Recognize that, and look for opportunities to be less hard on your self, and compassionate when you have work to do. Make a list of your accomplishments: Build more self confidence and quiet the inner critic when they're too loud, by listing out what you've accomplished to show yourself what you are capable of doing.   Where to find and follow Steve: You can follow Steve on Twitter @schlaf and learn more about his coaching practice atwww.schlaf.co  https://rebrand.ly/cfa3ed

Are you presenting yourself professionally as a resource or as a salesperson to your potential clients? This week we have with us in the OTB studio Kacia and Seena, good friends of the show who recently had their own unique set of circumstances that made finding the right real estate professional a huge priority. This continues what we were talking about last week with Bernie's story of finding a new home: building a professional relationship of trust with your clients is so important to building your professional reputation.   The No-Sale Sale   You never know what kind of situation potential clients might be coming to you with when you first interact with them. They could just be looking for a new home, or they might be dealing with property that they have no idea what to do with. More often than not, it will be some of the biggest purchases or sales that they've ever dealt with, and so need someone who can help them navigate all the ins and outs of the real estate market. Every interaction is an opportunity to showcase that outside the box thinking that will keep them coming back to you when they need that specialized help.   Sometimes this kind of client care can take the shape of giving advice that might lead the client away from your services. This is about building that trust between you and the client by always giving them the advice that would best benefit them, no matter where that might lead them. Ultimately, this is an industry about people and relationships, and establishing yourself as a leader in the market by always looking out for a client's best interests will help establish you as one.   “I think it's super important that you have a closer that not only possesses the technical knowledge but actually has people skills. I've been in this for 18 years now, and I've seen these escrow officers go from transactional to today where the expectation really has to be a little bit more hands on and personal. And finally, I think that you need to talk to escrow officers that are just as invested in getting something closed as you are.” – Bernie   “We don't get paid unless you get paid. So, we have every vested interest in making sure that this transaction closes. And not only does it close on time, but that you had a pleasant experience.” – Bernie   “The thing that I'm really hoping to change, I think about this in the long term, is that if you know how to build wealth, and you're starting off on this path with me and understanding how many more people can you impact and change their lives?” – Steve   “I see a lot of people in our industry where they were phenomenal successful producers 10 years ago, and now they're coaches and they're just using theory from 10 years ago. I've been working through chaotic problems this week, you know, they're good problems working with agents to try and solve problems. But I can only do it because I'm still in it.” - Steve   ​​You can find Kacia at: https://www.instagram.com/shegoes.company/?hl=en   You can find Seena at: https://www.instagram.com/seena.ghetmiri/?hl=en     We're ready to hear from you! Have a question or topic you'd like us to cover? Send us a message at: Steve's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stevedvalentine/ Bernie's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bernzpix/   You can find us on all the major Podcast apps: Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify, Stitcher, and more! Subscribe to be notified when new episodes are live and leave us a review and 5-star rating to help the show grow!

In this episode I give a quick recap of my interview with Steve Perry including: - Why stress is actually a gift and how you can use it to move you forward- How to avoid breakdowns and breakthrough instead - How to get better results without working longer or harderAnd so much more...  Steve Perry is a nationally recognized entrepreneur, leader, and motivator. He started his first business at age fifteen and entered the extremely challenging and rewarding field as a life insurance agent at age twenty. Five years later, he was promoted to partner in his local firm. He has been in executive leadership ever since.Steve has received national recognition as a top performer in nearly every measurable performance category. He holds the distinction of winning more national trophies in a single year than anyone in his company's 175+ year history—twice in a row.He has personally hired and led hundreds of growth-minded entrepreneurs and leaders and makes it his life's mission to “lead others into building their best lives.”Since 2011, Steve has been married to his beautiful wife, Tabatha, and they were blessed with daughters Lily (2014) and Liberty (2016). Originally from San Diego, California, Steve and Tabatha both lived in Alaska for more than twenty years.Click Here to connect with Steve*************************************************************You will never maximize your potential on your own so I'm personally inviting you to come and join me in the private Extraordinary Man Facebook group so you can level up your business and your life. Just Click Here to join the Extraordinary Man private Facebook group. Iron sharpens iron and this is the #1 place for you to connect with me and other like minded men who are on a mission to maximize their potential. My goal is to help you become the man God created you to be in all areas of your life. So come and join us in the Facebook group and upgrade your business and your life.

Steve Perry is a nationally recognized entrepreneur, leader, and motivator. He started his first business at age fifteen and entered the extremely challenging and rewarding field as a life insurance agent at age twenty. Five years later, he was promoted to partner in his local firm. He has been in executive leadership ever since.Steve has received national recognition as a top performer in nearly every measurable performance category. He holds the distinction of winning more national trophies in a single year than anyone in his company's 175+ year history—twice in a row.He has personally hired and led hundreds of growth-minded entrepreneurs and leaders and makes it his life's mission to “lead others into building their best lives.”Since 2011, Steve has been married to his beautiful wife, Tabatha, and they were blessed with daughters Lily (2014) and Liberty (2016). Originally from San Diego, California, Steve and Tabatha both lived in Alaska for more than twenty years.In this episode, we discuss:- Why stress is actually a gift and how you can use it to move you forward- How to avoid breakdowns and breakthrough instead - How to get better results without working longer or harderAnd so much more...  Click Here to connect with Steve*************************************************************You will never maximize your potential on your own so I'm personally inviting you to come and join me in the private Extraordinary Man Facebook group so you can level up your business and your life. Just Click Here to join the Extraordinary Man private Facebook group. Iron sharpens iron and this is the #1 place for you to connect with me and other like minded men who are on a mission to maximize their potential. My goal is to help you become the man God created you to be in all areas of your life. So come and join us in the Facebook group and upgrade your business and your life.

This week we're continuing our talk about building a business plan as a real estate agent to really understand what you're trying to accomplish as a professional. Joining us this week is Billy Hobbs, Director of Operations with the Laughton Team. Billy has a huge role in not only planning out the goals for the entire company, but also building plans for the agents that work with them on an individual basis. Hopefully over the last few episodes you've seen that having a business plan doesn't necessarily mean something complicated, but understanding who you are, who you're not, and what your goals are for the future.   “I think part of it does come down to what you want out of your business, right? If you're an individual agent and doing six, seven deals in your market, that's good. You've got a database, and you're working that and that's comfortable for you, fine. A business plan can be a simple one sheet: you write out a few goals and keep checking every now and then. It doesn't have to be elaborate.” – Billy   Being part of a Team but also being an Individual   The key takeaway from our conversation is to build a plan and if you're part of a team, communicate that plan so that everyone is on the same page. Being a part of an effective team is planning of the future for yourself and for the business as a whole. It's not just about performance, but about getting to the place that you want to be professionally and understanding how to accomplish those milestones. If you're a solopreneur you are the only person that you need to be accountable to, but as a member of a team those above you should be just as invested in your success as you are.   “This happens in business, and I think in life: we constantly change systems thinking that that's going to be the thing that's going to get us to where we want to be, when it really isn't that. It's your habits and your culture that drives you and so once you've changed that mindset and you've built that into the plan, then you can look at the systems. But I think the advice I'd give is to make sure that your culture is driven to the activity and then you can look at the systems and the technologies to make that better.” – Billy   “Income goals doesn't mean that you're about money, but income represents the gateway to freedom. So, whatever in your life represents freedom, there's a number attached to that in order for you to have the freedom that you're looking for.”  - Bernie   “The biggest thing is, is that we learn way more from our failures or shortcomings than we do our successes, because if everything was success you wouldn't be learning or be able to shift anything, and you just think it's kosher.” – Steve   You can connect with Billy at http://laughtonteam.com/   Have a question or topic you'd like us to cover? Send us a message at: Steve's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stevedvalentine/ Bernie's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bernzpix/   You can find us on all the major Podcast apps: Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify, Stitcher, and more! Subscribe to be notified when new episodes are live and leave us a review and 5-star rating to help the show grow!  

In this episode, we cover:00:00:00 - Reflections on the Episode/Introduction 00:03:06 - Steve's Bio00:07:30 - The 5 W's of Servers and their Future00:14:00 - Hardware and Software00:21:00 - Oxide Computer 00:30:00 - Investing in Oxide and the Public Cloud00:36:20 - Oxide's Offerings to Customers 00:43:30 - Continious Improvement00:49:00 - Oxide's Future and OutroLinks: Oxide Computer: https://oxide.computer Perfectlyboring.com: https://perfectlyboring.com TranscriptJason: Welcome to the Perfectly Boring podcast, a show where we talk to the people transforming the world's most boring industries. I'm Jason Black, general partner at RRE ventures.Will: And I'm Will Coffield, general partner at Riot Ventures.Jason: Today's boring topic of the day: servers.Will: Today, we've got Steve Tuck, the co-founder and CEO of Oxide Computer, on the podcast. Oxide is on a mission to fundamentally transform the private cloud and on-premise data center so that companies that are not Google, or Microsoft, or Amazon can have hyper scalable, ultra performant infrastructure at their beck and call. I've been an investor in the company for the last two or three years at this point, but Jason, this is your first time hearing the story from Steve and really going deep on Oxide's mission and place in the market. Curious what your initial thoughts are.Jason: At first glance, Oxide feels like a faster horse approach to an industry buying cars left and right. But the shift in the cloud will add $140 billion in new spend every year over the next five years. But one of the big things that was really interesting in the conversation was that it's actually the overarching pie that's expanding, not just demand for cloud but at the same rate, a demand for on-premise infrastructure that's largely been stagnant over the years. One of the interesting pivot points was when hardware and software were integrated back in the mainframe era, and then virtual machines kind of divorced hardware and software at the server level. Opening up the opportunity for a public cloud that reunified those two things where your software and hardware ran together, but the on-premises never really recaptured that software layer and have historically struggled to innovate on that domain.Will: Yeah, it's an interesting inflection point for the enterprise, and for basically any company that is operating digitally at this point, is that you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. You can scale infinitely on the public cloud but you make certain sacrifices from a performance security and certainly from an expense standpoint, or you can go to what is available commercially right now and you can cobble together a Frankenstein-esque solution from a bunch of legacy providers like HP, and Dell, and SolarWinds, and VMware into a MacGyvered together on-premise data center that is difficult to operate for companies where infrastructure isn't, and they don't want it to be, their core competency. Oxide is looking to step into that void and provide a infinitely scalable, ultra-high-performance, plug-and-play rack-scale server for everybody to be able to own and operate without needing to rent it from Google, or AWS, or Microsoft.Jason: Well, it doesn't sound very fun, and it definitely sounds [laugh] very boring. So, before we go too deep, let's jump into the interview with Steve.Will: Steve Tuck, founder and CEO of Oxide Computer. Thank you for joining us today.Steve: Yeah, thanks for having me. Looking forward to it.Will: And I think maybe a great way to kick things off here for listeners would be to give folks a baseline of your background, sort of your bio, leading up to founding Oxide.Steve: Sure. Born and raised in the Bay Area. Grew up in a family business that was and has been focused on heating and air conditioning over the last 100-plus years, Atlas. And went to school and then straight out of school, went into the computer space. Joined Dell computer company in 1999, which was a pretty fun and exciting time at Dell.I think that Dell had just crossed over to being the number one PC manufacturer in the US. I think number two worldwide at Compaq. Really just got to take in and appreciate the direct approach that Dell had taken in a market to stand apart, working directly with customers not pushing everything to the channel, which was customary for a lot of the PC vendors at the time. And while I was there, you had the emergence of—in the enterprise—hardware virtualization company called VMware that at the time, had a product that allowed one to drive a lot more density on their servers by way of virtualizing the hardware that people were running. And watching that become much more pervasive, and working with companies as they began to shift from single system, single app to virtualized environments.And then at the tail end, just watching large tech companies emerge and demand a lot different style computers than those that we had been customarily making at Dell. And kind of fascinated with just what these companies like Facebook, and Google, and Amazon, and others were doing to reimagine what systems needed to look like in their hyperscale environments. One of the companies that was in the tech space, Joyent, a cloud computing company, is where I went next. Was really drawn in just to velocity and the innovation that was taking place with these companies that were providing abstractions on top of hardware to make it much easier for customers to get access to the compute, and the storage, and the networking that they needed to build and deploy software. So, spent—after ten years at Dell, I was at Joyent for ten years. That is where I met my future co-founders, Bryan Cantrill who was at Joyent, and then also Jess Frazelle who we knew working closely while she was at Docker and other stops.But spent ten years as a public cloud infrastructure operator, and we built that service out to support workloads that ran the gamut from small game developers up to very large enterprises, and it was really interesting to learn about and appreciate what this infrastructure utility business looked like in public cloud. And that was also kind of where I got my first realization of just how hard it was to run large fleets of the systems that I had been responsible for providing back at Dell for ten years. We were obviously a large customer of Dell, and Supermicro, and a number of switch manufacturers. It was eye-opening just how much was lacking in the remaining software to bind together hundreds or thousands of these machines.A lot of the operational tooling that I wished had been there and how much we were living at spreadsheets to manage and organize and deploy this infrastructure. While there, also got to kind of see firsthand what happened as customers got really, really big in the public cloud. And one of those was Samsung, who was a very large AWS customer, got so large that they needed to figure out what their path on-premise would look like. And after going through the landscape of all the legacy enterprise solutions, deemed that they had to go buy a cloud company to complete that journey. And they bought Joyent. Spent three years operating the Samsung cloud, and then that brings us to two years ago, when Jess, Bryan, and I started Oxide Computer.Will: I think maybe for the benefit of our listeners, it would be interesting to have you define—and what we're talking about today is the server industry—and to maybe take a step back and in your own words, define what a server is. And then it would be really interesting to jump into a high-level history of the server up until today, and maybe within that, where the emergence of the public cloud came from.Steve: You know, you'll probably get different definitions of what a server is depending on who you ask, but at the highest level, a server differs from a typical PC that you would have in your home in a couple of ways, and more about what it is being asked to do that drives the requirements of what one would deem a server. But if you think about a basic PC that you're running in your home, a laptop, a desktop, a server has a lot of the same components: they have CPUs, and DRAM memory that is for non-volatile storage, and disks that are storing things in a persistent way when you shut off your computer that actually store and retain the data, and a network card so that you can connect to either other machines or to the internet. But where servers start to take on a little bit different shape and a little bit different set of responsibilities is the workloads that they're supporting. Servers, the expectations are that they are going to be running 24/7 in a highly reliable and highly available manner. And so there are technologies that have gone into servers, that ECC memory to ensure that you do not have memory faults that lose data, more robust components internally, ways to manage these things remotely, and ways to connect these to other servers, other computers.Servers, when running well, are things you don't really need to think about, are doing that, are running in a resilient, highly available manner. In terms of the arc of the server industry, if you go back—I mean, there's been servers for many, many, many, many decades. Some of the earlier commercially available servers were called mainframes, and these were big monolithic systems that had a lot of hardware resources at the time, and then were combined with a lot of operational and utilization software to be able to run a variety of tasks. These were giant, giant machines; these were extraordinarily expensive; you would typically find them only running in universities or government projects, maybe some very, very large enterprises in the'60s and'70s. As more and more software was being built and developed and run, the market demand and need for smaller, more accessible servers that were going to be running this common software, were driving machines that were coming out—still hardware plus software—from the likes of IBM and DEC and others.Then you broke into this period in the '80s where, with the advent of x86 and the rise of these PC manufacturers—the Dells and Compaqs and others—this transition to more commodity server systems. A focus, really a focus on hardware only, and building these commodity x86 servers that were less expensive, that were more accessible from an economics perspective, and then ultimately that would be able to run arbitrary software, so one could run any operating system or any body of software that they wanted on these commodity servers. When I got to Dell in 1999, this is several years into Dell's foray into the server market, and you would buy a server from Dell, or from HP, or from Compaq, or IBM, then you would go find your software that you were going to run on top of that to stitch these machines together. That was, kind of, that server virtualization era, in the '90s, 2000s. As I mentioned, technology companies were looking at building more scalable systems that were aggregating resources together and making it much easier for their customers to access the storage, the networking that they needed, that period of time in which the commodity servers and the software industry diverged, and you had a bunch of different companies that were responsible for either hardware or the software that would bring these computers together, these large hyperscalers said, “Well, we're building purpose-built infrastructure services for our constituents at, like, a Facebook. That means we really need to bind this hardware and software together in a single product so that our software teams can go very quickly and they can programmatically access the resources that they need to deploy software.”So, they began to develop systems that looked more monolithic, kind of, rack-level systems that were driving much better efficiency from a power and density perspective, and hydrating it with software to provide infrastructure services to their businesses. And so you saw, what started out in the computer industry is these monolithic hardware plus software products that were not very accessible because they were so expensive and so large, but real products that were much easier to do real work on, to this period where you had a disaggregation of hardware and software where the end-user bore the responsibility of tying these things together and binding these into those infrastructure products, to today, where the largest hyperscalers in the market have come to the realization that building hardware and software together and designing and developing what modern computers should look like, is commonplace, and we all know that well or can access that as public cloud computing.Jason: And what was the driving force behind that decoupling? Was it the actual hardware vendors that didn't want to have to deal with the software? Or is that more from a customer-facing perspective where the customers themselves felt that they could eke out the best advantage by developing their own software stack on top of a relatively commodity unopinionated hardware stack that they could buy from a Dell or an HP?Steve: Yeah, I think probably both, but one thing that was a driver is that these were PC companies. So, coming out of the'80s companies that were considered, quote-unquote, “The IBM clones,” Dell, and Compaq, and HP, and others that were building personal computers and saw an opportunity to build more robust personal computers that could be sold to customers who were running, again, just arbitrary software. There wasn't the desire nor the DNA to go build that full software stack and provide that out as an opinionated appliance or product. And I think then, part of it was also like, hey, if we just focus on the hardware, then got this high utility artifact that we can go sell into all sorts of arbitrary software use cases. You know, whether this is going to be a single server or three servers that's going to go run in a closet of cafe, or it's going to be a thousand servers that are running in one of these large enterprise data centers, we get to build the same box, and that box can run underneath any different type of software. By way of that, what you ultimately get in that scenario is you do have to boil things down to the lowest common denominators to make sure that you've got that compatibility across all the different software types.Will: Who were the primary software vendors that were helping those companies take commodity servers and specialize into particular areas? And what's their role now and how has that transformed in light of the public cloud and the offerings that are once again generalized, but also reintegrated from a hardware and software perspective, just not maybe in your own server room, but in AWS, or Azure, or GCP?Steve: Yeah, so you have a couple layers of software that are required in the operation of hardware, and then all the way up through what we would think about as running in a rack, a full rack system today. You've first got firmware, and this is the software that runs on the hardware to be able to connect the different hardware components, to boot the system, to make sure that the CPU can talk to its memory, and storage, and the network. That software may be a surprise to some, but that firmware that is essential to the hardware itself is not made by the server manufacturer themselves. That was part of this outsourcing exercise in the '80s where not only the upstack software that runs on server systems but actually some of the lower-level downstack software was outsourced to these third-party firmware shops that would write that software. And at the time, probably made a lot of sense and made things a lot easier for the entire ecosystem.You know, the fact that's the same model today, and given how proprietary that is and, you know, where that can actually lead to some vulnerabilities and security issues is more problematic. You've got firmware, then you've got the operating system that runs on top of the server. You have a hypervisor, which is the emulation layer that translates that lower-level hardware into a number of virtual machines that applications can run in. You have control plane software that connects multiple systems together so that you can have five or ten or a hundred, or a thousand servers working in a pool, in a fleet. And then you've got higher-level software that allows a user to carve up the resources that they need to identify the amount of compute, and memory, and storage that they want to spin up.And that is exposed to the end-user by way of APIs and/or a user interface. And so you've got many layers of software that are running on top of hardware, and the two in conjunction are all there to provide infrastructure services to the end-user. And so when you're going to the public cloud today, you don't have to worry about any of that, right? Both of you have probably spun up infrastructure on the public cloud, but they call it 16 digits to freedom because you just swipe a credit card and hit an API, and within seconds, certainly within a minute, you've got readily available virtual servers and services that allow you to deploy software quickly and manage a project with team members. And the kinds of things that used to take days, weeks, or even months inside an enterprise can be done now in a matter of minutes, and that's extraordinarily powerful.But what you don't see is all the integration of these different components running, very well stitched together under the hood. Now, for someone who's deploying their own infrastructure in their own data center today, that sausage-making is very evident. Today, if you're not a cloud hyperscaler, you are having to go pick a hardware vendor and then figure out your operating system and your control plane and your hypervisor, and you have to bind all those things together to create a rack-level system. And it might have three or four different vendors and three or four different products inside of it, and ultimately, you have to bear the responsibility of knitting all that together.Will: Because those products were developed in silos from each other?Steve: Yeah.Will: They were not co-developed. You've got hardware that was designed in a silo separate from oftentimes it sounds like the firmware and all of the software for operating those resources.Steve: Yeah. The hardware has a certain set of market user requirements, and then if you're a Red Hat or you're a VMware, you're talking to your customers about what they need and you're thinking at the software layer. And then you yourself are trying to make it such that it can run across ten or twenty different types of hardware, which means that you cannot do things that bind or provide hooks into that underlying hardware which, unfortunately, is where a ton of value comes from. You can see an analog to this in thinking about the Android ecosystem compared to the Apple ecosystem and what that experience is like when all that hardware and software is integrated together, co-designed together, and you have that iPhone experience. Plenty of other analogs in the automotive industry, with Tesla, and health equipment, and Peloton and others, but when hardware and software—we believe certainly—when hardware and software is co-designed together, you get a better artifact and you get a much, much better user experience. Unfortunately, that is just not the case today in on-prem computing.Jason: So, this is probably a great time to transition to Oxide. Maybe to keep the analogy going, the public cloud is that iPhone experience, but it's just running in somebody else's data center, whether that's AWS, Azure, or one of the other public clouds. You're developing iOS for on-prem, for the people who want to run their own servers, which seems like kind of a countertrend. Maybe you can talk us through the dynamics in that market as it stands today, and how that's growing and evolving, and what role Oxide Computer plays in that, going forward.Steve: You've got this what my co-founder Jess affectionately refers to as ‘infrastructure privilege' in the hyperscalers, where they have been able to apply the money, and the time, and the resources to develop this, kind of, iPhone stack, instead of thinking about a server as a single 1U unit, or single machine, had looked at, well, what does a rack—which is the case that servers are slotted into in these large data centers—what does rack-level computing look like and where can we drive better power efficiency? Where can we drive better density? How can we drive much better security at scale than the commodity server market today? And doing things like implementing hardware Roots of Trust and Chain of Trust, so that you can ensure the software that is running on your machines is what is intended to be running there. The blessing is that we all—the market—gets access to that modern infrastructure, but you can only rent it.The only way you can access it is to rent, and that means that you need to run in one of the three mega cloud providers' data centers in those locations, that you are having to operate in a rental fee model, which at scale can become very, very prohibitively expensive. Our fundamental belief is that the way that these hyperscale data centers have been designed and these products have been designed certainly looks a lot more like what modern computers should look like, but the rest of the market should have access to the same thing. You should be able to buy and own and deploy that same product that runs inside a Facebook data center, or Apple data center, or Amazon, or a Google data center, you should be able to take that product with you wherever your business needs to run. A bit intimidating at the top because what we signed up for was building hardware, and taking a clean sheet paper approach to what a modern server could look like. There's a lot of good hardware innovation that the hyperscalers have helped drive; if you go back to 2010, Facebook pioneered being a lot more open about these modern open hardware systems that they were developing, and the Open Compute Project, OCP, has been a great collection point for these hyperscalers investing in these modern rack-level systems and doing it in the open, thinking about what the software is that is required to operate modern machines, importantly, in a way that does not sink the operations teams of the enterprises that are running them.Again, I think one of the things that was just so stunning to me, when I was at Joyent—we were running these machines, these commodity machines, and stitching together the software at scale—was how much of the organization's time was tied up in the deployment, and the integration, and the operation of this. And not just the organization's time, but actually our most precious resource, our engineering team, was having to spend so much time figuring out where a performance problem was coming from. For example in [clear throat], man, those are the times in which you really are pounding your fist on the table because you will try and go downstack to figure out, is this in the control plane? Is this in the firmware? Is this in the hardware?And commodity systems of today make it extremely, extremely difficult to figure that out. But what we set out to do was build same rack-level system that you might find in a hyperscaler data center, complete with all the software that you need to operate it with the automation required for high availability and low operational overhead, and then with a CloudFront end, with a set of services on the front end of that rack-level system that delight developers, that look like the cloud experience that developers have come to love and depend on in the public cloud. And that means everything is programmable, API-driven services, all the hardware resources that you need—compute, memory, and storage—are actually a pool of resources that you can carve up and get access to and use in a very developer-friendly way. And the developer tools that your software teams have come to depend on just work and all the tooling that these developers have invested so much time in over the last several years, to be able to automate things, to be able to deploy software faster are resident in that product. And so it is definitely kind of hardware and software co-designed, much like some of the original servers long, long, long ago, but modernized with the hardware innovation and open software approach that the cloud has ushered in.Jason: And give us a sense of scale; I think we're so used to seeing the headline numbers of the public cloud, you know, $300-and-some billion dollars today, adding $740-some billion over the next five years in public cloud spend. It's obviously a massive transformation, huge amount of green space up for grabs. What's happening in the on-prem market where your Oxide Computer is playing and how do you think about the growth in that market relative to a public cloud?Steve: It's funny because as Will can attest, as we were going through and fundraising, the prevalent sentiment was, like, everything's going to the public cloud. As we're talking to the folks in the VC community, it was Amazon, Microsoft, and Google are going to own the entirety of compute. We fundamentally disagreed because, A, we've lived it, and b, we went out as we were starting out and talked to dozens and dozens of our peers in the enterprise, who said, “Our cloud ambitions are to be able to get 20, 30, 40% of our workloads out there, and then we still have 60, 70% of our infrastructure that is going to continue to run in our own data centers for reasons including regulatory compliance, latency, security, and in a lot of cases, cost.” It's not possible for these enterprises that are spending half a billion, a billion dollars a year to run all of their infrastructure in the public cloud. What you've seen on-premises, and it depends on who you're turning to, what sort of poll and research you're turning to, but the on-prem market, one is growing, which I think surprises a lot of folks; the public cloud market, of course, it's growing like gangbusters, and that does not surprise a lot of folks, but what we see is that the combined market of on-prem and cloud, you can call it—if on-premise on the order of $100 billion and cloud is on the order of $150 billion, you are going to see enormous growth in both places over the next 10, 15 years.These markets are going to look very, very small compared to where they will be because one of the biggest drivers of whether it's public cloud or on-prem infrastructure, is everything shifting to digital formats. The digitalization that is just all too commonplace, described everywhere. But we're still very, very early in that journey. I think that if you look at the global GDP, less than 10% of the global GDP is on the internet, is online. Over the coming 10, 20 years, as that shifts to 20%, 30%, you're seeing exponential growth. And again, we believe and we have heard from the market that is representative of that $100 billion that investments in the public cloud and on-prem is going to continue to grow much, much more as we look forward.Will: Steve, I really appreciate you letting listeners know how special a VC I am.Steve: [laugh].Will: [laugh]. It was really important point that I wanted to make sure we hit on.Steve: Yeah, should we come back to that?Will: Yeah, yeah yeah—Steve: Yeah, let's spend another five or ten minutes on that.Will: —we'll revisit that. We'll revisit that later. But when we're talking about the market here, one of the things that got us so excited about investing in Oxide is looking at the existing ecosystem of on-prem commercial providers. I think if you look at the public cloud, there are fierce competitors there, with unbelievably sophisticated operations and product development. When you look at the on-prem ecosystem and who you would go to if you were going to build your own data center today, it's a lot of legacy companies that have started to optimize more for, I would say, profitability over the last couple of years than they have for really continuing to drive forward from an R&D and product standpoint.Would love maybe for you to touch on briefly, what does competition for you look like in the on-prem ecosystem? I think it's very clear who you're competing with, from a public cloud perspective, right? It's Microsoft, Google, Amazon, but who are you going up against in the on-prem ecosystem?Steve: Yeah. And just one note on that. We don't view ourselves as competing with Amazon, Google, and Microsoft. In fact, we are ardent supporters of cloud in the format, namely this kind of programmable API-fronted infrastructure as being the path of the future of compute and storage and networking. That is the way that, in the future, most software should be deployed to, and operated on, and run.We just view the opportunity for, and what customers are really, really excited about is having those same benefits of public cloud, but in a format in which they can own it and being able to have access to that everywhere their business needs to run, so that it's not, you know, do I get all this velocity, and this innovation, and this simplicity when I rent public cloud, or do I own my infrastructure and have to give up a lot of that? But to the first part of your question, I think the first issue is that it isn't one vendor that you are talking about what is the collection of vendors that I go to to get servers, software to make my servers talk to each other, switches to network together these servers, and additional software to operate, and manage, and monitor, and update. And there's a lot of complexity there. And then when you take apart each one of those different sets of vendors in the ecosystem, they're not designing together, so you've got these kind of data boundaries and these product boundaries that start to become really, really real when you're operating at scale, and when you're running critical applications to your business on these machines. And you find yourself spending an enormous amount of the company's time just knitting this stuff together and operating it, which is all time lost that could be spent adding additional features to your own product and better competing with your competitors.And so I think that you have a couple of things in play that make it hard for customers running infrastructure on-premises, you've got that dynamic that it's a fractured ecosystem, that these things are not designed together, that you have this kit car that you have to assemble yourself and it doesn't even come with a blueprint of the particular car design that you're building. I think that you do have some profit-taking in that it is very monopolized, especially on the software side where you've only got a couple of large players that know that there are few alternatives for companies. And so you are seeing these ELAs balloon, and you are seeing practices that look a lot like Oracle Enterprise software sales that are really making this on-prem experience not very economically attractive. And so our approach is, hardware should come with all the software required to operate it, it should be tightly integrated, the software should be all open-source. Something we haven't talked about.I think open-source is playing an enormous role in accelerating the cloud landscape and the technology landscapes. We are going to be developing our software in an open manner, and truly believe whether it's from a security view through to the open ecosystem, that it is imperative that software be open. And then we are integrating the switch into that rack-level product so that you've got networking baked in. By doing that, it opens up a whole new vector of value to the customer where, for example, you can see for the first time what is the path of traffic from my virtual machine to a switchboard? Or when things are not performing well, being able to look into that path, and the health, and see where things are not performing as well as they should, and being able to mitigate those sorts of issues.It does turn out if you are able to get rid of a lot of the old, crufty artifacts that have built up inside even these commodity system servers, and you are able to start designing at a rack level where you can drive much better power efficiency and density, and you bake in the software to effectively make this modern rack-level server look like a cloud in a box, and ensure these things can snap together in a grid, where in that larger fleet, operational management is easy because you've got the same automation capabilities that the big cloud hyperscalers have today. It can really simplify life. It ends up being an economic win and maybe most importantly, presents the infrastructure in a way that the developers love. And so there's not this view of the public cloud being the fast, innovative path for developers and on-prem being this, submit a trouble ticket and try and get access to a VM in six days, which sadly is the experience that we hear a lot of companies are still struggling with in on-prem computing.Jason: Practically, when you're going out and talking to customers, you're going to be a heterogeneous environment where presumably they already have their own on-prem infrastructure and they'll start to plug in—Steve: Yeah.Jason: —Oxide Computer alongside of it. And presumably, they're also to some degree in the public cloud. It's a fairly complex environment that you're trying to insert yourself into. How are your customers thinking about building on top of Oxide Computer in that heterogeneous environment? And how do you see Oxide Computer expanding within these enterprises, given that there's a huge amount of existing capital that's gone into building out their data centers that are already operating today, and the public cloud deployments that they have?Steve: As customers are starting to adopt Oxide rack-level computing, they are certainly going to be going into environments where they've got multiple generations of multiple different types of infrastructure. First, the discussions that we're having are around what are the points of data exfiltration, of data access that one needs to operate their broader environment. You can think about handoff points like the network where you want to make sure you've got a consistent protocol to, like, BGP or other, to be able to speak from your layer 2 networks to your layer 3 networks; you've got operational software that is doing monitoring and alerting and rolling up for service for your SRE teams, your operations teams, and we are making sure that Oxide's endpoint—the front end of the Oxide product—will integrate well, will provide the data required for those systems to run well. Another thorny issue for a lot of companies is identity and access management, controlling the authentication and the access for users of their infrastructure systems, and that's another area where we are making sure that the interface from Oxide to the systems they use today, and also resident in the Oxide product such as one wants to use it directly, has a clean cloud-like identity and access management construct for one to use. But at the highest level it is, make sure that you can get out of the Oxide infrastructure, the kind of data and tooling required to incorporate into management of your overall fleet.Over time, I think customers are going to experience a much simpler and much more automated world inside of the Oxide ecosystem; I think they're going to find that there are exponentially fewer hours required to manage that environment and that is going to inevitably just lead to wanting to replace a hundred racks of the extant commodity stack with, you know, sixty racks of Oxide that provide much better density, smaller footprint in the data center, and again, software-driven in the way that these folks are looking for.Jason: And in that answer, you alluded to a lot of the specialization and features that you guys can offer. I've always loved Alan Kay's quote, “People who are really serious about software make their own hardware.”Steve: Yeah.Jason: Obviously, you've got some things in here that only Oxide Computer can do. What are some of those features that traditional vendors can't even touch or deliver that you'll be able to, given your hardware-software integration?Steve: Maybe not the most exciting example, but I think one that is extremely important to a lot of the large enterprise company that we're working with, and that is at a station, being able to attest to the software that is running on your hardware. And why is that important? Well, as we've talked about, you've got a lot of different vendors that are participating in that system that you're deploying in your data center. And today, a lot of that software is proprietary and opaque and it is very difficult to know what versions of things you are running, or what was qualified inside that package that was delivered in the firmware. We were talking to a large financial institution, and they said their teams are spending two weeks a month just doing, kind of a proof of trust in their infrastructure that their customer's data is running on, and how cumbersome and hard it is because of how murky and opaque those lower-level system software world is.What do the hyperscalers do? They have incorporated hardware Root of Trust, which ensures from that first boot instruction, from that first instruction on the microprocessor, that you have a trusted and verifiable path, from the system booting all the way up through the control plane software to, say, a provisioned VM. And so what this does is it allows the rest of the market access to a bunch of security innovation that has gone on where these hyperscalers would never run without this. Again, having the hardware Root of Trust anchored at a station process, the way to attest all that software running is going to be really, really impactful for more than just security-conscious customers, but certainly, those that are investing more in that are really, really excited. If you move upstack a little bit, when you co-design the hardware with the control plane, both the server and the switch hardware with the control plane, it opens up a whole bunch of opportunity to improve performance, improve availability because you now have systems that are designed to work together very, very well.You can now see from the networking of a system through to the resources that are being allocated on a particular machine, and when things are slow, when things are broken, you are able to identify and drive those fixes, in some cases that you could not do before, in much, much, much faster time, which allows you to start driving infrastructure that looks a lot more like the five nines environment that we expect out of the public cloud.Jason: A lot of what you just mentioned, actually, once again, ties back to that analogy to the iPhone, and having that kind of secure enclave that powers Touch ID and Face ID—Steve: Yep.Jason: —kind of a server equivalent, and once again, optimization around particular workflows, the iPhone knows exactly how many photos every [laugh] iOS user takes, and therefore they have a custom chip dedicated specifically to processing images. I think that tight coupling, just relating it back to that iOS and iPhone integration, is really exciting.Steve: Well, and the feedback loop is so important because, you know, like iPhone, we're going to be able to understand where there are rough edges and where things are—where improvements can even can continue to be made. And because this is software-driven hardware, you get an opportunity to continuously improve that artifact over time. It now stops looking like the old, your car loses 30% of the value when you drive it off the lot. Because there's so much intelligent software baked into the hardware, and there's an opportunity to update and add features, and take the learnings from that hardware-software interaction and feed that back into an improving product over time, you can start to see the actual hardware itself have a much longer useful life. And that's one of the things we're really excited about is that we don't think servers should be commodities that the vendors are trying to push you to replace every 36 months.One of the things that is important to keep in mind is as Moore's laws is starting to slow or starting to hit some of the limitations, you won't have CPU density and some of these things, driving the need to replace hardware as quickly. So, with software that helps you drive better utilization and create a better-combined product in that rack-level system, we think we're going to see customers that can start getting five, six, seven years of useful life out of the product, not the typical two, or three, or maybe four that customers are seeing today in the commodity systems.Will: Steve, that's one of the challenges for Oxide is that you're taking on excellence in a bunch of interdisciplinary sciences here, between the hardware, the software, the firmware, the security; this is a monster engineering undertaking. One of the things that I've seen as an investor is how dedicated you have got to be to hiring, to build basically the Avengers team here to go after such a big mission. Maybe you could touch on just how you've thought about architecting a team here. And it's certainly very different than what the legacy providers from an on-prem ecosystem perspective have taken on.Steve: I think one of the things that has been so important is before we even set out on what we were going to build, the three of us spent time and focused on what kind of company we wanted to build, what kind of company that we wanted to work at for the next long chunk of our careers. And it's certainly drawing on experiences that we had in the past. Plenty of positives, but also making sure to keep in mind the negatives and some of the patterns we did not want to repeat in where we were working next. And so we spent a lot of time just first getting the principles and the values of the company down, which was pretty easy because the three of us shared these values. And thinking about all the headwinds, just all the foot faults that hurt startups and even big companies, all the time, whether it be the subjectivity and obscurity of compensation or how folks in some of these large tech companies doing performance management and things, and just thinking about how we could start from a point of building a company that people really want to work for and work with.And I think then layering on top of that, setting out on a mission to go build the next great computer company and build computers for the cloud era, for the cloud generation, that is, as you say, it's a big swing. And it's ambitious, and exhilarating and terrifying, and I think with that foundation of focusing first on the fundamentals of the business regardless of what the business is, and then layering on top of it the mission that we are taking on, that has been appealing, that's been exciting for folks. And it has given us the great opportunity of having terrific technologists from all over the world that have come inbound and have wanted to be a part of this. And we, kind of, will joke internally that we've got eight or nine startups instead of a startup because we're building hardware, and we're taking on developing open-source firmware, and a control plane, and a switch, and hardware Root of Trust, and in all of these elements. And just finding folks that are excited about the mission, that share our values, and that are great technologists, but also have the versatility to work up and down the stack has been really, really key.So far, so great. We've been very fortunate to build a terrific, terrific team. Shameless plug: we are definitely still hiring all over the company. So, from hardware engineering, software engineering, operations, support, sales, we're continuing to add to the team, and that is definitely what is going to make this company great.Will: Maybe just kind of a wrap-up question here. One of the things Jason and I always like to ask folks is, if you succeed over the next five years, how have you changed the market that you're operating in, and what does the company look like in five years? And I want you to know as an investor, I'm holding you to this. Um, so—Steve: Yeah, get your pen ready. Yeah.Will: Yeah, yeah. [laugh].Steve: Definitely. Expect to hear about that in the next board meeting. When we get this product in the market and five years from now, as that has expanded and we've done our jobs, then I think one of the most important things is we will see an incredible amount of time given back to these companies, time that is wasted today having to stitch together a fractured ecosystem of products that were not designed to work together, were not designed with each other in mind. And in some cases, this can be 20, 30, 40% of an organization's time. That is something you can't get back.You know, you can get more money, you can—there's a lot that folks can control, but that loss of time, that inefficiency in DIY your own cloud infrastructure on-premises, will be a big boon. Because that means now you've got the ability for these companies to capitalize on digitalizing their businesses, and just the velocity of their ability to go improve their own products, that just will have a flywheel effect. So, that great simplification where you don't even consider having to go through and do these low-level updates, and having to debug and deal with performance issues that are impossible to sort out, this—aggregation just goes away. This system comes complete and you wouldn't think anything else, just like an iPhone. I think the other thing that I would hope to see is that we have made a huge dent in the efficiency of computing systems on-premises, that the amount of power required to power your applications today has fallen by a significant amount because of the ability to instrument the system, from a hardware and software perspective, to understand where power is being used, where it is being wasted.And I think that can have some big implications, both to just economics, to the climate, to a number of things, by building and people using smarter systems that are more efficient. I think generally just making it commonplace that you have a programmable infrastructure that is great for developers everywhere, that is no longer restricted to a rental-only model. Is that enough for five years?Will: Yeah, I think I think democratizing access to hyperscale infrastructure for everybody else sounds about right.Steve: All right. I'm glad you wrote that down.Jason: Well, once again, Steve, thanks for coming on. Really exciting, I think, in this conversation, talking about the server market as being a fairly dynamic market still, that has a great growth path, and we're really excited to see Oxide Computer succeed, so thanks for coming on and sharing your story with us.Steve: Yeah, thank you both. It was a lot of fun.Will: Thank you for listening to Perfectly Boring. You can keep up the latest on the podcast at perfectlyboring.com, and follow us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll see you next time.

Steve Gamlin, aka The Motivational Firewood Guy, is a speaker and a coach who uses humor, positivity, and visualization to help people change their lives. Today topics range from lunch meat to shopping carts, and coffee stains to 7 irons as we take a stroll down an entertaining and inspirational conversation with our friend Steve. You get to hear his story of going from a guy with a fear of public speaking who blew up his life 10 years into his radio career, to a man who is a public speaker, comedian, coach, and all-around great guy changing lives every day through his work. This episode is anything but boring! Connect with Steve: You can find him on social media by searching his name - Steve Gamlin Or On his website at www.motivationalfirewood.com Enjoy the show! Also, don't forget to join our Facebook community at www.facebook.com/groups/failureunleashed

My conversation with Steve Sims is a testament of what someone can do if they put their mind to it. He has created an incredible company, TheBluefish.com by literally making what would appear to most as impossible, a reality, hence the title of his book - "Bluefishing: The Art Of Making Things Happen" He ever says during our conversation that he hopes the fact that a brick layer from London could accomplish all of this, that you too can accomplish whatever you set out to do. You're going to love his sincerity and how "real" of a person he is. Literally what you hear and what you get and no bullshit! Enjoy!!! Joe Steve Sims: Founder and CEO Bluefish The Man Behind All Things Steve Sims Website: https://www.stevedsims.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stevedsims/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/stevedsims/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/stevedsims LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sdsims/ Email: ask@stevedsims.com Podcast Music By: Andy Galore, Album: "Out and About", Song: "Chicken & Scotch" 2014 Andy's Links: http://andygalore.com/ https://www.facebook.com/andygalorebass If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. For show notes and past guests, please visit: https://joecostelloglobal.libsyn.com Subscribe, Rate & Review: I would love if you could subscribe to the podcast and leave an honest rating & review. This will encourage other people to listen and allow us to grow as a community. The bigger we get as a community, the bigger the impact we can have on the world. Sign up for Joe's email newsletter at: https://joecostelloglobal.com/#signup For transcripts of episodes, go to: https://joecostelloglobal.lybsyn.com Follow Joe: https://linktr.ee/joecostello Transcript Joe: Today, my guest is Steve Sims. Steve, welcome to the show.   Steve: Now, thanks for having me.   Joe: Very excited man, I I've been following you for quite some time now. Do you like the title, The Real Life Wizard of Oz? This do you like that? I just want to know because I don't.   Steve: Now, when it came out, when when folks wrote a big article on me and they named like Elon Musk and Richard Branson, the article was fantastic. You know, the article I couldn't have done a better puff piece in a show of piece if I had done it myself. But then then they came up with the idea of Titli Me as Steve Sims, the real life Wizard of Oz. Now, this got a lot of people's attention, but at the end of the day, he was some dodgy pervert that didn't do anything to hide it behind a curtain. So I thought to myself, I'm not quite sure I like that. But, you know, people people I'm proud to say see to the essence of the imagination and the creativity and not the fact that he was a big forward.   Joe: Right. I want to go back a little bit, if you don't mind, I know there's so much I have to ask you, but I also wanted to lay the groundwork. So when anyone listens to this, they understand who you are and what you're about, where you came from. So it can you give how you became who you are today and what you do.   Steve: Yeah, very simply, I'm the same as everyone else, every entrepreneur in the planet started off by being pissed off about something, whether it be their finances, their life or something, the way it was being done. But I believe the entrepreneurs were kind of aggravation and it's aggravated oysters to make pose with. First of all, got to be pissed off about something. I was kicked out of school at 15 straight onto the building site in London, and that was my life. And I thought, really, you know, this is my dad, my uncle, my cousins, even my granddad in his 80s was on this building site. And I thought, this is my life now. Of course, I didn't have Instagram to tell me how inadequate my life was at the time, so I had nothing to gauge myself by. But, you know, I just thought there's got to be something else. And so, like every entrepreneur, we jump out of the frying pan into the volcano, you know, we just like, well, let's try it. And then we fail. And then we try something else and we fail at that. We gain all this education. I realized one thing that was my my my true north is a site. I was in the wrong room now as a as a bold bloke, British biker, all those bees. I was in a room with all of those people. You know, I remember going into into the pub at night and throwing the money on the table, knowing exactly how many babies you could afford to.   Steve: And maybe if you scratch get hold, you got two pennies, get one more on each hand out between everyone else. And I said to myself, is this it? And so I had to change the way I had to go into a room where people would demand themselves demanding more impact, demanding more income. And so I didn't know how to do it, but I ended up building up this Trojan horse. I ended up as a doorman of the nightclub, knowing where all the nightclubs were. Then I started to own my own parties. Then I started throwing parties for other people. Then I started managing other people's parties. And I went from closing down clubs in Hong Kong to working with someone on his Oscar party, the Kentucky Derby, the New York Fashion Week, the Palm Beach Polo. I ended up working for the biggest events in the planet, and one single film I always had was I would only ever invite rich people to these events. Why? Because I knew what people were like, because I was broke and broke. People can't afford shit. So I only I would only invite millionaires and billionaires. So I changed the room I was in. And the only reason I did it was because I wanted to walk up to someone rich and go, Hey, how come your filthy rich and I'm not. So I created my own firm in order to be able to ask that question.   Joe: It's so cold, before we go any further, I have to tell you, now that I'm sitting here across from you even virtually, that I love the way you express yourself and I love dealing with people who are down to earth and honest and say what's on their mind. And as you know, and you even have some of this on your website, there's so much fluff in the world today and there's so much of the facade of I am this person and I do all of this and I do all of that. And it's just nice to sit with a successful real person. And I really mean that. It just it's it's truly an honor to be sitting here talking with you.   Steve: Isn't that a shame, isn't   Joe: It   Steve: It?   Joe: Is,   Steve: Now,   Joe: It is.   Steve: Really, isn't it a shame that if you if you if you rewind and listen to it, don't thank me for being real? And therefore, all you're doing is validating that the rest of the planet is not. So it should be it should be something we take for granted, we should make someone go. Well, I know what that is all about, but we don't because people spend so much energy trying to be someone that not you never get to meet them. You go of these shields and as you say, there's these facades to navigate through all of these Almaz. And you're like, well, what's really about I made it. I made a decision very early on and I will get experience three seconds after we needed it. But I remember there was one point in my life that I woke up and like all entrepreneurs, we had that little nagging doubt, oh, should I really be doing this? Should I really look like this? Should I really sound like this and like a moron? I listen to it. And so I changed my persona and she tried to use big words. You know, I, I wore suits. I took my earrings out. I covered my tattoos. I became someone that I thought would be easier for you. What I ended up doing was I made it harder for you to understand me. But he was the weird thing. I had an expensive watch. And if anyone knows me, I'm in a black T-shirt and jeans. Every single time in my life, I ride motorcycles. I do not own a car. I collect motorcycles. I bought a collar this time, I bought a car, I bought made suits, I bought an expensive watch, and then I realized these will for you, I was trying to impress you and all of those trappings and trinkets of, wow, look at me, I've got money gained me.   Steve: And this is the doll thing. A lot of clients. And I was making more money with a lot of people I didn't like, I didn't like and I couldn't connect with. So I realized very early on that and this put me actually on a serious note, put me into a mass depression. Thankfully, I came out of the other side so to watch, got rid of the suit, got rid of the car on motorbikes ever since. I want to make it impossible for me to be misunderstood by you. OK, I want you to never be able to sit on a fence and go, well, what's this Steve Sims about? I want to make it so simple that you can go like some people. I would imagine some people on this podcast have gone down on that guy. I'm gone. And that's fine with billions of people in the planet. If a few bugger off after 30 seconds, Mumolo, could you still. Fine, but I want to make it very easy for you to know what side of the fence you want to jump on my side, be part of family and community and grow and get uncomfortable or go go about your way. Either way, fine. But there's nothing in the planet today where some fence sitters and I decided I'm going to make it very easy for you to make sure you know which side of the fence to be on.   Joe: Yeah, and it's true, I know where I stand with you, I can make a comment on your social media that you always write back. You always say thank you. You always say whatever you whatever. It's just it feels like a real relationship and it's and it's awesome. And that's the way it should be,   Steve: It   Joe: I   Steve: Should   Joe: Think   Steve: Be, yes,   Joe: Should be.   Steve: And go good, so everyone out that all you can with your people is you are you connecting with people as the person you think they want to see? It's a deep question, but stop spending any effort on trying to be someone you know.   Joe: I love it. Perfect. OK, so I know this is going to sound like rush to the audience, but I have you for such a little bit of time and I have a huge sheet of notes and things, and I have to ask you. So the book deal, so blue fishing, the art of making things happen. How did that deal come about? Like you said, and I think 20, 16 is when that book deal happened. How did they come to you and say, hey, why don't you take all your experiences and what you do and write a book? Is that what they basically said?   Steve: No,   Joe: Ok.   Steve: When when you actually start hanging around with people, different people that do things differently and opportunities come at you, OK? And I was at a party up in New York and I'm at the bar doing what I do, drink in old fashions and telling stories. And this this woman was introduced to me and it was a case of Steve telling the story about you. But you and Alan Jonel when you did this with the pope. So I just told a few stories and she came back to me and she said, you know, you should buy a book. Now, we've all heard that before. And I'm like a few days later, she actually contacted me. She was part of Simon and Schuster, one of the largest publishing houses in the planet. And she said, no, Susie, we want you to buy a book. We want you to buy a book on all the rich and powerful people all over the planet you deal with and what you do. And I said, do you mind if I did that? I'd be dead by cocktail hour. So I can't do that. So then we got chatting and I did I did a speech for a friend of mine called Joe Polish at the Genius Network event, and it was like, hey, I got kicked out of school. But this is how I did this with the pope and Elon Musk. And they got wind of this this talk that I gave and came back to me about a week, like went, oh, hang on a minute.   Steve: We don't want you naming people. We want to know how a bricklayer from East London managed to do this, you know, and so was OK. That makes sense. So I did the book for a variety of reasons. One of them. Actually, both of them were completely selfish. Now that I think about it. Your kids are never impressed with you. It doesn't matter who you are. Your kids are never impressed with me being able to write a book. I'll be like, hey, kid, your dad's an author now, you know? And I just wanted to warn to book. So one of them was personal satisfaction to imitate the crap out of my three kids. The other selfish reason was to get people to stop thinking. Now, that seems the opposite of what everyone's trying to do. But haven't you noticed when someone said, hey, we should do this and they go, yeah, that's brilliant, let's build a business plan, let's do a vivid vision and let's do a forecast. Let's get an analytical survey. Let's do a crowdsourced. Shut up. Try it, see if you like it, see if someone wants to buy it. See if someone's got a problem that your mouth to try something. So I've always said, forget about you. I can't focus on you.   Steve: I can. And I thought to myself, if I can demonstrate in this book that a great line from London is doing this, then you're already out of excuses. So selfishly, I wanted to create a world that there were more doers than who is in the planet. There's a lot of who is out there. There's no substance. So selfishly, I wanted to piss the kids off on. I wanted to create more people to be aggravated enough to go. Well, I have it's dark. I can do it. And it came out, as you say, I got the deal in twenty sixteen book, came out in seventeen and I thought to myself, well and I got paid nicely so I thought, I don't know if anyone's going to believe it, I got to buy it. Because when you look at the industry of books, there's thousands of books coming out every week. And I thought and I know this is really going to appeal to anyone so suddenly. Schuster, they send me, which was weird because I'd always wired me my Bothaina, but they posted me a two and a half gram check and they said, we want you to go to Barnes and Noble and we want you to sit there with a pile of books and a couple of bottles of champagne and signed books. Now, is this is this a video podcast was just an audio podcast about.   Joe: It's both.   Steve: Ok, so for those people that don't have the pleasure of seeing me. Let's let's be honest, a Saturday afternoon when you're walking around with your kids, there is no way in God's green earth you're going to go, well, he looks nice and friendly. Let's go and find out while you're   Joe: The.   Steve: Going to avoid me like the plague. So I thought, I can't do that. I'm going to end up drinking. Champagne is all going to go well. So I thought to myself, no, not doing that. So I went down to a local whiskey bar and that that I happened to have frequented a couple of times. And I said, look, here you go. I'm going to sign this, check over to you and turn the lights on when we run out of money. And they went and saw I invited a bunch of my friends again, if you demand of you and your circle, you end up with pretty good friends so that everyone from like Jim Quico had a son and had a great, great and all. But Jesse and I had a whole bunch of really cool people that were in there that also have big followings and pretty well not invited to Lewis House, a whole bunch of people from there. And we literally just stuck a pile of books at the end of the bar because we were told we had to be a book launch and just basically go home for the night. And here's the funny thing. I never even had a website announced in this book, you know, because I've never done a book but called Insomnia Hotta, Sneaky Little Buggers that they are. They did a secret video of the night, which I was told was to get Bilo footage for a new video for Kolhatkar. They did this incredible, unbelievable video of my book launch and put into the music of Dreman by Eversmann is one of the best tunes in the planet and gave it to me. And it was tremendous. And what they did was they went around all of these people going, hey, what do you think of Steve doing this book? Now, if you go to Steve de Sims, don't come, you know, not trying to sell you anything.   Steve: But if you go to our website, we put the video on the front page of the website because Simon Schuster said you're not even not even promoting the book. You have to promote the book. So I went, oh, I'll stick this video up. Now, the video at the beginning, everyone's like, oh, it's such an honor to be here. Steve's done really well. He's what? It's all bullshit. It's all kind of like I'm sober and I'm on film, so I'm going to say something nice about him. And then as the video gets old, obviously the night gets old on the old fashions get going on and like with that bleep bleep bleep. Oh, bleep. And he's just to use it. And I just tell myself that's real. That's that's low people about a couple of drinks in him. And now that just kind of like screaming at me and swearing and I just thought, that's Leo. So I put that up. And the funny thing is that video. Launched it, people suddenly saw I wasn't trying to hide behind any kind of misconception of perfection, that this was as good as it gets. And now the book's been released and translated into Thai, Vietnamese, Chinese, Mandarin, Chinese, Korean. It's now Polish and it's now being translated into Russian. And it's called World Wide as a best seller. It's in credible how this is taken off and what it's done for me and for those people that I'm now able to communicate with, shake him up a little bit, get them uncomfortable, and then spit them out into the world to be more impactful.   Joe: Yeah, it's it's great and it's truly a Steve Sims book launch, like people should take note that that's why it's so cool to meet you and to be talking with you. It's like this real, real, real thing. And that's what I love. It's just it's completely refreshing. So ask why three times what does that mean?   Steve: We're in a world today where we're very scared of telling you what we want, you know, if you say to someone, hey, you win a million dollars this weekend, what are you going to do? They're going to go, oh, I'm going to get a Ferrari and I'm going to get a hot tub. And all of the Hawaiian Tropic goes are going to come and sit in the hot tub with me. And you gotta scrape. But three months down the line, what are you going to do? And then it's going to be things like, well, you know, my school, my kids school does no basketball court. I'd really like to help them. You see, people have a knee jerk answer and then they have the real core and people don't want to tell you what the core is. So this is what I do. People will say to me, and he's a chip on a trick for everyone out there, basic communication and in fact, is heavily used by the FBI. I know it sounds funny, but it is just the basics of communication. And when anyone ever says to you what they want, respond in the same right and tonality and speed that they've said. Now, let me give you an example. I really want to do this. And you go, oh, that's really fantastic. And then you drop it. You go, Oh, that's really fantastic. But why? And when you drop that tone.   Steve: They in their head, they go, oh, they recently bodily wise, if I sat in front of you, you know, the body language, you can see them like sink down a little bit more because the gods know up when the chest is out and it's all raw. But then they sink back and they go, oh, that's a good question. And they they then go, well, actually this happened. And in fact, probably rather than going on about that, I'll give you a story as an example, if I might. So I was working with John for about eight years, and we had an office at the time in Palm Beach and I wasn't in the office and I get this call come through to me from one of the team and they said, hey, Steve, we've got a guy on the phone from New York and he wants to meet some Elton John. You know, you need to speak to him because you're the one that's going over to be without one on that time. And I just found out what he wants. Right. So I answer the phone and I said, hey, hey, hey, hey. I want to get a picture out of John. Match the technology. Oh, that's fantastic, that's great. Why? So then he comes back with well, he's you know, he's one of the last living legends, he's an icon, he's brilliant. I want to get a photograph with him off my desk.   Steve: He's going to die soon. And, yeah, that's two things. One, there was no direct response to my question of why. And secondly, if, you know, if he never matched my knowledge, well, he carried on with his excitement. So I said to him, oh, that's fantastic. I'll come back to you. Let me see what I could do. And I hung up, never got his email, never got his phone number. There was no real driving call. It was all very superficial. OK, so then about a month later and we're about a month and a half away from the party now, one of the girls at the office contacted me. She said, hey, we got this guy from New York on the phone, wants to meet Elton John. I don't think it's the same guy as the other one because I already contacted him and said, we don't touch this guy. But I'm wondering if this is might this charter can I do it because you wouldn't respond to it? So in my head, I'm like, oh, well, I've got to get rid of this guy as well when I put me through New York and comes on the phone. Hey, how are you doing? I said, all right. You know, I hear you want to meet sound, John. He went, Yeah. What mean? So I want to have a chat with him. So I said, Oh, that's fantastic.   Steve: Brilliant. I said, Why? And he went, oh, and he had to think about it, but still had a bit of bravado about it, is that all? Well, he's a he's an iconic he's a legend. I want to meet him and have a chat. Going to get a picture with him. There's things. Now, I could see he was stumbling. So I said to him very quietly, and as Chris Voss says, you've midnight boys, I said to him. What things? And just shut up. And a different man came back on the phone. And this is all he said. So when I was a kid, my dad used to take me to school and he used to bring me back from school whenever my mom, it was always my dad, he'd take me to bring me back. Now, the car, we had a cassette player in it and the cassette was jammed and it was Elton John's greatest could play, but it couldn't eject. So all the way to school. We would be singing our lungs out to Elton John on the way back from school, we'd be singing our lungs out of Elton John now. Then he got a new column. This car had this CD player in it. So he bought Elton John's greatest hits. And again, we would sing our lungs out all the way to school and sing our lungs out on the way back. And then I started to get into high school for the first couple of years, he still had to take me and pick me up.   Steve: And I used to jump into that car so fast because he would have one job blaming before it even got in the car and I would stare out the window with mass embarrassment as my dad some his lungs out all the way home. And I would say to my mom, can you make you stop singing anyone jump a Clydeside just like she's thing and all the way to high school and all the way back, you will be like by sunlight, slam the door quickly so no one else can hear Elton John coming out of the door. He said that my dad died about twenty five years ago. I've got kids, I'm married, and I'll be traveling to work where we're going on a vacation, going down to take my wife out for dinner one night. He said the radio will be on, he said, and Elton John to come on the radio. You sit in for the next three and a half minutes, my dad is sat in the seat next to me blaring his lungs out to John. I want to thank him for bringing my dad back to me every now and then for three minutes at a time. That was it, there was the why, there was the call, he was too embarrassed to tell me that story at the beginning, so he hid behind the always great bring in all the bravado.   Steve: But you'd have never got to it if you hadn't have used you in a Sherlock and gone. Why what why is also the most aggressive, combative word out there? For some reason it pisses people off. I get people text me and DM me and Facebook message me and they go Sim's. I see you in L.A. I'm going to be in L.A. next week. We should get together for a beer. I want to buy you a steak and all I will respond with is why. And the amount of people get, well, I heard you acculturate the dick, you know, and they will get offensive and right. And then I'll get other people going. Good question. I wanted to discuss it. I want to talk about this. I wanted to bring this. I wanted to say thanks. And that is my wife. The older you get, the more you need the why. This guy was a perfect example without a job of what he's true. Why? What is true call was now with that. I was able to go to Elton John telling the story and got them to meet, and it was a very Tavey wonderful moment, this very powerful moment. But that was that was a perfect example of how the wide drives to the core. Without the coal, you haven't got a connection. It's all superficial.   Joe: Yeah, that's a great story. Gosh, the next one never be the first call.   Steve: Yeah, I'm really crappy introducing myself, and I also think it's pointless, so what I'll do is if I need to get in touch with you and I come in and I say, hey, you know, hey, how are you? My name's my name's Steve Sims. You know, we got a chat. I know the Pope and Elon Musk. Richard Branson. I'm a big deal. Can I be on your podcast? You're going to be like, this guy's a dick, you know, I want nothing to do with this guy, you're going to go straight past any of the information I've given you and just come to the assumption of a self promoting full of himself. Egotistical prick. Now, let's change it, let's say like next week, you're talking with one of your buddies and your buddy says, oh, have you heard about this guy called Steve Sims? He's worked with John Elon Musk. And the guy is a big deal. He says word for word what I said. But all of a sudden, you're now interested, you're kind of like, oh, you know, can you make an intro? And then when you do get to speak with me, I've already got all this credibility. So I haven't got to so much so I can be humble and sit and go, yeah, what do you want? Oh, I've got to focus. Well, let me see if I can do all of that shit, because I've already got the credibility. So I noticed years ago there is much more powerful and it's much more brief of a conversation if you're riding on someone else's credibility and connection and introduction.   Steve: So if I want to meet someone, I'll look at whoever else is in that circle, who do they respect and get them to make the introduction and then they will contact me. Oh, yeah. You know, Jimmy, tell me to call. You got you've done some weird things, though. Yeah, I have. But I want to do my next weird thing with you. I tell you what, so you can have that kind of conversation. If I'm at a party and someone stood next to me and they say, hey, what are you doing? Based on that body language, based on how they're asking the question will be based on how I respond. So I've said to people before, I own the valet company in this park and all the cars here, oh, I to work for the security. I'm undercover. I own a petrol station just down the road. I'll come up with all of those kind of things to find out. So did I want to stay there and still have a conversation? If they do, great. You know, but then is it something that I think I want to do business? I want to say actually, do you know the best thing? You know what? You over there. I'll get you a drink, you go nostalgia what I did. And then I'll get a job and of course, I want to be like, oh my God. And then of course, they'll be back down. Oh, yeah. And you'll have that kind of thing that I'm always very careful to be very calculated on how I get introduced and who introduces me.   Joe: Yeah, it's that theory of the circle of influence type thing, right, that for four, then three, then two, then one. And so the more you can have those people talk about you. By the time you reach the person in the middle that you eventually wanted to be, maybe introduced to or do business with you, you've been built up so big you don't have to say a word.   Steve: You have to say nothing. I've had people literally phone me going, Oh, Billy, Billy told me to give you a call and I'll be honest. How can I help you? And I haven't had to sell myself. I haven't had to talk about. I've had to do none of that. So if you become the solution to someone else's problem, you ain't got to worry about any of the shine.   Joe: Yeah, all right, so this is the last one of those three bullet points that I when I they caught my eye, I wanted to make sure I asked and you already alluded to this one, but you said, don't be easy to understand. Be impossible to misunderstand.   Steve: There's a confused client will never give you his checkbook, and so I noticed years ago that anyone that's ever heard the term, the big C. knows it stands for cancer. OK, the big C in business is confusion. So you say I alluded to earlier, you alluded it to even earlier than that.   Joe: Ok.   Steve: When you actually remove all the confusion with what it is you do and who you are. You make it very easy for the other person to now make an educated decision on whether or not you're the person they want to do business with, hang out with whatever. OK, so stop trying to confuse your clients. Here's the classic mistake. Hey, I've got a new business. Let me get a website. Let me get a guy to buy all the copy for the website with words that I could not even spell. I could not even say. But hey, they make me look smart and the person who reads it goes OK with this person's obviously ex a dictionary or, you know, was was was an English major in Oxford. And then they get you on the phone. You're like, Hello, Bob, how can I help you? And they go, well, hang on. I mean, there's a disconnect. And that's the problem. You want to make sure that you have full transparency, who you are, what do you stand for? What do you do? What is the solution that you provide to whose problem? So if you've got all of that transparency, you are impossible to misunderstand. But people try to be something they lean against cos they don't own. They take photographs on jets that have not left the runway. They talk a good talk of bullshit and bollocks and a distortion. And people look at you and here's the thing. You're never, never going to get someone phone you up. Hey, Steve, I was looking at your website. I'm really confused what it is you do. What is it you do? You're never going to get that.   Steve: People are going to they've got a problem. They need a solution. That's what being an entrepreneur is an entrepreneur. It's for people to outsource their problems to. And you then send them an invoice to do so. It's complicated, but that's the world of an entrepreneur. So if you make it very confusing as to who you are, what problems you solve, then you're not in business. And so that's why I'm a great believer that you've really got to focus on the clouting. I'll give you a classic one. People, if you if you open up your social pages, link to Facebook, Instagram, Tinder, whatever, and you look on there, you look on LinkedIn and you've got to you're going to sue on and you're all looking smart and debonair. And then you go over to Facebook and it's Girls Gone Wild, just sitting there with a mix on the edge of the beach. And, you know, your confusion people. And you never want to confuse people. And there's a lot of people out there I like to call them idiots. They look at LinkedIn and they go, well, you have to do that LinkedIn because it's more professional than Facebook. Facebook is the largest business advertising platform in the planet. So why is linked in the business, want to not know Facebook, that's the first thing. Secondly, because you are a genius and you think you have to be buttoned up on LinkedIn, but you can be in real bad Bahama shorts on Facebook. Why is it that Apple is not why is it that Nike is not, why is it the Samsung Chevrolet? Any brand out there is the exact same on thing as they are on Facebook as they are on Snapchat, as they are on Twitter? Why? Because you are who you are, why start confusing your clients by being two different people if you love wearing suits? I wear suits on all platforms.   Steve: If you love when Bahama shorts web Howard Schultz on a new platform, but don't be two different people. It breeds confusion and understand the social is nothing more than a platform of consumption. If I don't want to get too deep into it. But if you got 10 people together and you said, hey, what's the news tonight? And then we're going to talk about nine o'clock tomorrow. And nine o'clock tomorrow, you would still be talking about coronaviruses, potential riots. New laws coming in, you know, stimulus packages, the news would be exactly the same. But then if you ask those 10 people what news station did you look at that would go well, KTLA, ABC, CNN, BBC, these are all points of consumption for the same news as for social platforms or whatever you post on Facebook, post on LinkedIn, whatever is posted on LinkedIn, post on Twitter. This is nothing more than points of consumption. I know people that go, I don't want to watch Facebook, OK, whatever I'm posting on Facebook, I'm going to post on Twitter, so I'm still going to get you so. Don't change to be anybody, they're not the big brands don't do it, so why did your smart arse tell you that it's a good idea to do it makes   Joe: Right,   Steve: Them say.   Joe: And for everybody that's listening to this or eventually watching the YouTube video, the prime example is just go to your website, go to go to Steve's website, and you'll see that exactly the person you're seeing hearing here is exactly who's on that website. The tone of the copy that's on the website is you throughout the entire Web site.   Steve: And that's that's there's a lot of people that go and get copyright is OK. They miss the point and again, I don't want to get too deep into this, but they miss the point of what social and websites are for. That's a generally and ignite a conversation. So I thought I'd come to you and I start speaking Japanese to you, and you don't speak Japanese. End of conversation, if I get somebody to put together a copy onto my website that makes me sound articulate and overly smart and overly iino on everything, you may go or don't like the sound of this guy or worse, you might go. I like the sound of this guy. And then you reach out to me and you suddenly find that I am nothing like that person. So what you should do is download a copy, and I love copy, copyright is a great we going to copyright is not the time. I think everyone should look at copyrights in the future. But when you're doing basic critical copy for, like, your website. Puke, count your thoughts and then get somebody to tweak your thoughts, don't impose it, just correct the grammar, correct terminology, maybe reframing a bit, but that's what I did. I call it verbal puke. I will literally I'm one of the ways that I do it is I've got this thing like a smart phone, like everyone in the planet has one foot away from them. I record, I push the cord and I go, hey, welcome to the world of Steve Sims. I'm here to tell you about this. And I will talk it through and then I will send it over to one of my assistants to get it translated and then to adjust it for grammar and correction and flow that you should always leave your website, your most important initial point of conversation with words that came from your head, not somebody else.   Joe: Yeah, and your website is exactly the perfect example of that, so everyone has to go look at your website because I think it's refreshing. Again, everything about you is refreshing. So I have less than 15 minutes with you. So I want to just talk about a few things on your Web site so that the audience understands. So Sims distillery is the first thing, which is your online community, right?   Steve: It's my community, I wanted to build a community for people that wanted to ask me questions, ask a private community questions, we do live Facebook Amma's where people come in to answer that question. So if you're a member of seems to still be and you go, hey, I'm having a problem with problem of finding a good copywriter or what's been a tick tock of Instagram, or should I be doing more videos or should I be doing more static postings? I will literally bring one of my friends in and will do a forty five minute live AMA where you and the other seems to still be members can physically ask these people questions and get results out of your answers.   Joe: Awesome. OK, we don't have to go into this, but I know that you're a keynote speaker. I've seen different things for you, but I just want the audience to know everything about you. You also offer private coaching, OK? And then you also offer this private 30 minute phone call that you'll do with people. Right? OK, and then you have the same speakeasy, which is the thing that I think is really interesting, which to me it's like a two day roundtable mastermind. Is that a good description of it?   Steve: Now, how much do you know about it?   Joe: Well, I just I you know, from when I was going to maybe a 10 to one here in Scottsdale, that happened not too long ago, sort of looking at it, it was me. It felt like a master mastermind, like you were going to go around and everyone   Steve: But   Joe: Was   Steve: What   Joe: Going to   Steve: Information   Joe: Sort of.   Steve: Did you actually know about Scotsdale? And   Joe: Oh,   Steve: I'm putting you on the spot here, so   Joe: God,   Steve: Get   Joe: I.   Steve: All of the information and you knew for a fact about Scotsdale.   Joe: I think the only time when I looked at it, I just potentially knew the dates and the cost and that it was going to be capped, that I don't know if it was at the time that one might have been capped at like twenty five people or something like that. I don't think it was 40, but I don't remember.   Steve: So the point is that we actually we run these speakeasies as a reverse mastermind, so what we do is we tell you the city, as we did Scotsdale, we didn't tell you where it was going to be. We tell you it's two thousand dollars and we give you the dates.   Joe: Right. OK,   Steve: Then   Joe: Good.   Steve: We'll   Joe: So   Steve: Give   Joe: I passed because   Steve: You   Joe: That's   Steve: Pass.   Joe: All I knew. OK.   Steve: Yeah. And but we don't tell you who's going to turn out. We don't tell you what you're going to learn. We don't tell you any of those things. And the reason is because everyone signs up, we reach out to them and we would go, hey, thanks for joining up. Thanks for with the speakeasy. What's your problem? And we want to know what our problem is and if they come back and they go, well, I'm having a problem gaining credibility or I want to get more viewers or I want to, can I go into coach? You know, I want to do more speaking gigs. I want to when we can find out what our problem is, then I know who to bring in to actually teach and train Joe in that two day event to physically answer the problems they have. So I work in reverse. There's no point in me saying, hey, come to my event. I've got this person, this person, this person, because you may go, well, I like those too, but I have no idea who those three. I want to know your problem and then I'm going to bring people in. And by not telling anybody what who's going to be there, even the attendees. The whole speakeasy mentality is that you don't know what's going on, you just know that the people in there both teach in training and attend these. I've got to be creative disruptors of rock stars because it takes that mentality to come along to one of my events and we cap them all at 40. We capture one in Scottsdale at 40, although we only had thirty six turn up because there was some flight issues, because I think we had that big Texas storm coming through at the time. So sadly we lost about four people, but we capable of 40 next ones in San Diego, the 19th and the 20th of July. And that's all, you know. You know, that's that is literally a.   Joe: All right, cool, the deep dive is when you would come to somebody's organization and do a full day of onsite consulted,   Steve: Yeah,   Joe: Correct?   Steve: That's that's that's the that's the call where we actually go in and find out what's going on, it's very shaky, you know, it's very disruptive. It gets a lot of people uncomfortable because we really go in there and try and tear down, you know, why people are doing things, what they're looking for as an outcome and usually to see where the disconnect is on those.   Joe: Great, and then you also have your own podcast, which is the art of making things happen. And do you is most of the people, from what I can see in the sort of entrepreneurial space.   Steve: Yes, but not somehow you think you see, I've had priests, I've had gang members, I've had lifers, I've had prostitutes, I've had Fortune 500, I've had rocket scientists. I have many, many different range of people on there. But as I said at the beginning of the show, at one point or time, they were pissed off and they were aggravated and that's what caused them to then go into a different world. So, you know, we're all entrepreneurial, but I'm not running Fortune 500 companies or CEOs. They come from very, very wide and almost ran on. Something will happen to me. I saw that Megan Merkl interview recently a while ago, and I did a deconstructs on the power of branding that could have been done if we'd have had and still in the royal family and how brand wise it was a for and again with her leave in the royal family. So I'll often just go in there and spout about things that I'm up to that have come to my mind, of course, to piss me off. And I need to vent.   Joe: And then on top of everything else is if you didn't have enough to do you have Sim's media, which to me looks like you're basically helping anybody, any entrepreneur or any person with their branding, the PR, their marketing podcast book launches product launches. Right. So you because you've done all of this stuff, you're like, hey, I can help. So you have Sim's   Steve: Yeah,   Joe: Media as well.   Steve: I've done it for everyone from Piaget to Ferrari to major events to major influences, and I find the way people work media quite often is wrong. They have a Field of Dreams moment. Hey, I'm going to pay for an article in Forbes. They get the article in Forbes and then they sit there by the phone thinking, OK, Reinier, bugger. And it doesn't work like that. So I'm a great believe. Again, media is one thing, but what you do with it is everything. So the way I work kind of works. So now what we did was about three years ago, we started allowing clients to actually operate under the way that we worked. And then it was about six months ago that we physically launched Tim's media and able to get you to where you wanted to be given the message you want to be given.   Joe: Awesome. I love it. OK, Henry, your son, does he work with. Is he part of your team?   Steve: Yes, and he's branching out to a new thing, and I laugh because, again, your kids grow up going, Oh, Dad, you don't know day, you don't know I want to follow you. Yeah. And they love you. And then they go to school where for eight hours the school teaches them. There's only one answer. And if you don't get this answer and you don't take the white box, you failed. And then they come home to an entrepreneur who doesn't even know where the box is. And there's 20 different answers and each one of them is making them half a million dollars, you know, so it's a real disconnect. And he had trouble with that. And he was studying engineering, which was a very analytical profession. And then he would come on to his dad, who Cyprien old fashioned talking to someone in Korea and suddenly getting wired one point to be able to do something. He's like, how can this be? You know? So eventually he actually said he wanted to just flow around to a couple of the events that I was speaking at. And then he suddenly sort to see the world of entrepreneurial being a lot more challenging to him. And now he's actually gone out. And it's it's beautiful to see how he's come from the analytical world. And he's now taking what he knows about that. And he's very driven, focused on results. And he works in Sim's media and he's launching his own group. So I'm very proud of it.   Joe: Ok, so he's actually doing some of his own things. He's not just   Steve: He is, he   Joe: Got   Steve: Is   Joe: It, OK,   Steve: You   Joe: Call.   Steve: Want to you want to you want to basically build people up to be good enough that they can leave but treat them so well they don't want to. So it's good to see him out on his own. I'm   Joe: Perfect.   Steve: Happy with that.   Joe: Awesome. OK, so we're out of time. One quick question. If you only had one motorcycle, which brand would you choose?   Steve: Oh, that's the nastiest question   Joe: I   Steve: In.   Joe: Know, I knew I knew it was going to   Steve: Oh.   Joe: Because I see all your bikes lined up, I see because I see your Harley Norton, I'm like, Oh man, what's your what's his favorite?   Steve: Oh, this is kind of weird because if anything, it's probably the least exclusive exclusive of my bikes, but I bought a Harley Street glide about a year ago and it's the only comfortable to up bike. I've got Zoom. My others are single seat is all that will Elbaum comfortable. So this is the only one that my wife can come on. So I would probably say that one because it's the only one that me and her can actually get out and do. Our tacker runs up to Santa Barbara or.   Joe: Perfect. OK.   Steve: Tough question, tough   Joe: Hey,   Steve: Olival question.   Joe: I will I would have had another eight of those like I already you've already explained your favorite drink. It sounds like it's an old fashioned but   Steve: Yeah, it is.   Joe: But I would have a ton of I wish I had more time with you. I so enjoy this. I'm going to put all your links in the show notes so that anyone listening to the podcast will see them in the show notes and on YouTube. And I will make sure they know where to find you. This has been a complete honor for me. I again, to meet you even virtually, and to have a real person who's doing real things at a real honest level and not leaning against a Lamborghini that you don't own are sitting in a shell of a fuselage of a plane that doesn't even fly for photos. It just means a lot to me. There's something about it. And I hope to meet you in person sooner than later. I hope to attend one of your events, and I really appreciate it. Thanks so much for being here.   Steve: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Transcript Steve: Steve and Jill here. Jill: Hi. Steve: Welcome to the Land Academy Show. Entertaining land investment talk. I'm Steven Jack Butala. Jill: And I'm Jill DeWit broadcasting from awesome, Southern... Are we southern or central area? Steve: Central? Jill: Excuse me. Awesome, Central Arizona. [inaudible 00:00:16] I have got to figure that out. Steve: Our elevation's 1500 here. In California, we were at elevation number... Like one foot. Jill: There we go. Steve: You know how you obsess on- Jill: I do obsess on that. Steve: On the weather and stuff? Jill: And GPS and all that. Steve: I have elevation issues. I put elevation in every single one of our land postings. Jill: [inaudible 00:00:38] you remember, you used to have that thing... And it was dialed into satellite stuff? Steve: Yeah, the weather... Jill: Yeah. And it would tell you all kinds of cool... The barometric pressure and things like that. I'm going to get one of those again for the new house. Steve: I think that you can get... I like the one that goes on the roof, where you don't need the internet. Jill: This one didn't need the internet too. Steve: So you install a little thing that goes... You ever see those little... Jill: A little gyro thing? Steve: Yeah. Jill: Oh, well you can do that if you want. I don't need that. Steve: [inaudible 00:01:09] Jill's out, if you have to install anything now. Jill: Exactly. Steve: Do you ever notice how girl products are just like open it and plug it in? And it's clean and pretty and simple and you don't really get any real information or the meat of anything? But- Jill: Why is this a bad thing? Steve: They're happy. Jill: It should work. I should open up and plug it in. Steve: I think I just described Apple computer. Jill: It's like a bathroom scale and should be able to just do it quickly. Not have to program the whole thing. Steve: Before Jill starts to talk about women's weight. Today, Jill and I talk about introducing Land Academy accountability and women's groups. Before we get into it, let's take a question posted by one of our members on the landinvestors.com online community. It's free. And if you're already a member, please join us on Discord. Jill: Okay. James wrote, "Hello. When filling in the red, yellow, and green tests in the equity planner, which filters are used for land and farm to get land postings and Redfin [inaudible 00:02:09] data?" Assume on Redfin for [inaudible 00:02:13] data, you only select land for the last three months. And for land and farm, no houses and undeveloped land. However, the numbers from these filters are very different than the numbers in the example Jack uses for the equity planner. And I want to make sure I'm doing this right. Steve: You're doing it right. James, I can tell you haven't filled this out before and by this question, you are going to be wildly successful at this. Whenever I get questions about equity planner, data scrubbing. Like yesterday, the school district thing yesterday was nothing short of amazing. I didn't make enough of a big deal about how positive that is like Jill did. So I'm doing it now. The answer is this. When you have a lot of data available, i.e. You have an urban county or a zip code that you're sending it to, then use it all in from one source, probably Redfin. You're not going to get the data that you need in realtor, all of it. And you're not going to get all of the data that you need in Zillow. You are going to get it in Redfin. The bad news is that Redfin's coverage doesn't... Rural counties are not a priority for them. So you're doing it right. I can tell. In three months is great, that's actually what I use. It's interesting that you say three months, because that just made sense to you and that makes sense to me. Jill likes 30 days, but there's not enough data. You can do it back three years if you want on Redfin, that's, that's not apples to apples. Because real estate market was not the same thre...

So You Made 100K on a Land Deal Now What (LA 1302) Transcript: Steve: Steve and Jill here. Jill: Hey. Steve: Welcome to the Land Academy Show, entertaining land investment talk. I'm Steven Jack Butala Jill: And I'm Jill Dewitt broadcasting from sunny Southern California Steve: Today Jill and I talk about, so you made a hundred grand on that last land deal, now what? Jill: I know what. Steve: Well. Jill: Do it again. Steve: Celebrate. Yes, first you need to take 10 minutes and celebrate. Maybe do shot of tequila or something. Jill: Yeah, tens good. Ten minutes is good. Steve: Whatever works for you. Eat a piece of chocolate cake, I don't know whatever works for you. Jill: What is yours? Steve: And that's the whole show. Jill: Quick. You want to celebrate? What? Can I have a budget? I made a hundred thousand dollars. How much money can I spend from my separation? Steve: You know, Jill and I made a huge amount of money one time on a real estate deal. You know what we did? Bought new computers. Jill: Yeah. It went to the business and it made us more effective and it, and I was just so happy. Yep. All right. Quick, you give yourself $500. What are you going to do? Steve: God, I haven't thought about something like this in a long time. Because usually I just go do whatever I want. Jill: I know but- Steve: For 500 bucks, what would I do? You know what I would do? Call up my buddies, probably bring you and your friends, girlfriends, and just pay for everybody's night out. Jill: That's very sweet. Well, now I feel like a little bit like a heel because mine's different. Mine is I call no one. Steve: Oh my God. Is this a spa day at that MZ diamond acquisitions? Jill: No because I have $500, it's just a spa day. That's it. I call no one, I turn off my phone, I leave it in the car and I'm gone for several hours. That's how I celebrate. Steve: Jill, I speak frankly, here. You should be doing that once a week anyway. Jill: I know. I should but spa's are kind of closed right now. Steve: Why don't you schedule that? Jill: Because the spa's are closed right now. That's, trust me, don't you, don't think I'm not, that's not on my list. Steve: Can't you have like a masseuse come to the house? Jill: I haven't really tried that hard but I could probably work on that. So, but thank you, that's not what this show's about. Thank you. Steve: Yes it is. This is about a hundred grand. It's totally about this. Jill: Okay, I guess so. Okay, yes because I just learned, I didn't know of any that would come to the house. And I just heard from somebody recently that they know someone. So that's in the works. But do you know what? I still don't want to do it in my own house. I have to go somewhere because I don't want to have to hide. And you know, I want to just, I'd like to go and be treated. Steve: You want to go somewhere and do that? Huh? What if I leave the house? And then- Jill: It's still not that great. I want to go be treated. Steve: This is interesting. Jill: You know what I want to do? Steve: You learn new stuff about your mate every day. Jill: I want to go to Terranea, or something equivalent, and just really have a nice, nice time. Thank you. Steve: Before we get into it, let's take a question posted by one of our members on the landinvestors.com online community. It's free. Jill: Okay. Mohad wrote, I've been practicing using Real Quest Pro to pull data in an area I'm looking to send my first mailer. Once I enter all the criteria and submit, it seems like a lot of the data I pull has some sort of housing on it. I'm entering in zero to 0% improvement and I'm still getting many buildings slash houses. I don't want to waste money on records with houses. I've gone through each land use to figure out which is pulling the records with the houses, but it looks like they are just blended in with several uses. Any suggestions on how to get rid of the houses, to be sure I'm doing something wrong? Steve:

Working with Your Spouse without Tragedy (LA 1301) Transcript: Steve: Steve and Jill here. Jill: Hello. Steve: Welcome to The Land Academy Show entertaining land investment talk. I'm Steven Jack Butala. Jill: I'm Jill DeWit, playing with my hair, and I'm broadcasting from sunny Southern California. Steve: Today, Jill and I talk about working with your spouse without tragedy. I'm sure Jill has a lot to say about this. Sure of it. Jill: Let's define tragedy. Just kidding. Steve: We can show you what a tragedy looks like on this episode, actually. Jill: I guess we could. Steve: We can give a great example of tragedy. Jill: So, divorce papers? Or just getting into it? Steve: Yesterday, and I bit the inside of my lip, we were talking about when to leave your job and I'm thinking like, "We should be talking about when to leave your relationship." Jill: Oh, that's sad. Don't say that. Steve: Sometimes you've got to leave. Jill: No, I mean, come on. Don't leave let's... careful. Steve: All right. Jill: All right. Let's be cool here. Steve: Before we get into it, let's take a question posted by one of our members on the landinvestors.com online community. It's free. Jill: Okay. Rebecca wrote, "Hi, Land Academy. Quick question on filtering and pricing lots. The last list I sent out for four to six acre lots/parcels, I filtered out the higher priced lots over 75,000, but kept the lowered valued lots. I filtered them out." So, she didn't keep them. Okay. "I received about eight signed contracts from people who I sent offers to for eight to $10,000 when their lots were worth less than $10,000. Should I price by zip code or filter out the lots assessed under 10K or both? Thoughts please." Steve: You should price by zip code, for sure. No doubt about it based on the information that we have, the level of information we now have specifically because of Zillow. So yes, you should price by zip code, for sure. Should you remove any of the top end or the bottom end data? I call it like a bell curve. I keep it all in. We send out offer prices at a million plus now, and we get some of them signed back because you just never know. Over and over and over again what I hear from our advanced group at our live events, is send out more mail. Send out more mail and see what happens. You put yourself in such a position of control when you send out just hoards of mail. So yeah, maybe some of it's overpriced, maybe some of it's under priced, to this day I over and underprice property sometimes, but I'll tell you, when you're staring at a pile of purchase agreements that are signed, let's say 10 of them, you're going to pick the best three. If you have five purchase agreements signed and you're going to pick the best three, it's not as good of a situation to be in as 10, pick three. But yeah, you've got to price by zip code now. Jill: Well, I like what you said too, careful, don't limit yourself too much because you never, like you said, you never know what's going to come back. And if you're really, really deathly afraid of anything over $100,000, I can understand that, that's over your threshold. I would download the data. You're famous for saying the data is cheap, the mail's expensive and that's true. So, I would download the data just to have it and play with it and think about it too, but go for some bigger numbers anyway because you can afford to do this. Why? Because we'll fund your deals and people in our community will fund your deals. You might find something spectacular, Rebecca, that you're buying it for $83,000 and holy cow, it's worth 400, that just comes across your desk. And I want you to be able to look at those and see those and act on them. Adding a zero or a couple zeros is not nuts. Steve: This group is packed full of people that would love to write you an $83,000 check. Jill: Right. My other thing is too, I think what may have happened is sometimes how counties assess properties.

Quick Land Sale vs. Retail Price (LA 1300) Transcript: Steve: Steve and Jill here. Jill: Hello. Steve: Welcome to the Land Academy Show. Jill: Oops. Steve: Entertaining land investment talk. I'm Steven Jack Butala. Jill: And I'm Jill DeWit, broadcasting from sunny Southern California. Steve: Today, Jill and I talk about a quick land sale versus retail price. Jill: Right. Steve: You want to explain that title? Because it's kind of your title. Jill: Oh, is it? Okay. It's kind of like, think about the kind of person you want to be. A quick land sale is for me, just how we operate. I used to say I'm a wholesaler, but that even gets confused. I don't want people to ... People have negative thoughts sometimes- Steve: Yeah, it became a negative term. Jill: It did, and it's so silly because I think people see a wholesaler as someone who doesn't acquire property, all they do is assign a- Steve: Get in the way. Jill: ... property. Exactly. Assign it versus yeah, virtually get in the way. I am with you. And the way we do it, which is still wholesaling. People don't, I don't know why it got all garbled. We buy the property. I will seek out the property. I will buy the property. I will pay the full price for the property. We own it. We close escrow, it's in our name. Now I'm going to turn around, mark it up and sell it. So I can choose to quickly double my money and get out or I can, Hm, I can mark it up and some people do this, they get a little greedy and they think about retail. Why would I sell a property, Jill, that I paid $20,000 for? Why would I sell it for $45,000 tomorrow when I can sit and wait and get seventy for it. Because that's really what it's worth. And my question is, why wouldn't you? I mean, do you really want to sit and babysit the property and talk to all the people who want to go drive on it and roll around on it and camp on it and love on it? Have a virtual thing of what their tiny home's going to look like on it and see their family running through the field on it. Dream it up. And waste all that time. I'm kind of getting into the show, but that's describing it and we'll talk more. Steve: The undertone or between the lines here is, the ethics of what we do. That's what I want to get into. Jill: Oh, really? Steve: Yeah, because I haven't heard it recently, but I've heard people in the past, give me a hard time about what we do for a living. We haven't brought this up. Jill: I haven't heard this in a while. Okay, good we'll talk about that. Steve: We haven't brought this up in a long time, but I think it's worth talking about. Jill: I love it. Steve: Before we get into it, let's take a question posted by one of our members on the landinvestors.com online community. It's free. Jill: Okay. Gina wrote, "Hello. My name is Gina. I've been doing land investing for a few years now and I guess I'm here to try and see if I can improve my workflow. I send out about 2000 letters a month, but I'd like to make that close to 5000." Thank you, Kevin. One of our moderators. Yep. Steve: Thank you, Kevin, by the way from me. Jill: Yeah. "Any tips, tools tricks you use to scale? I currently work a full time job and simply don't have the time to sort through all the sites and piece together that many records. 2000 sites would be my max without going crazy. Any help from experienced members, such as yourself, would be much appreciated." Cool. So I'm wondering what sites she's going through to piece together records. I'm thinking if she's a member, you're not piecing anything together, you're just- Steve: She's a member. Jill: Okay. So you should be using Real Quest Pro, having an idea before you go into there to download the data, you've spent a lot of time picking the areas, picking the County and getting it all from there. You're holding back. Go. Steve: In the interest of education, I'm going to be very plain speaking here. I don't see the difference between processing 2000 or 5000 at all. In fact,

Thin Line Between Insulting a Seller and Pricing to Buy (LA 1295) Transcript: Steve: Steve and Jill here. Jill: Howdy. Steve: Welcome to Land Academy Show, entertaining land investment talk. I'm Steven Jack Butala. Jill: And I'm Jill DeWit, broadcasting from sunny northern California. Steve: Today, Jill and I talk about the line between insulting a seller and actually buying a piece of property. This is a topic that's very fresh in how we're buying and selling land, and it's something that we all deal with. It's one of the top five- Jill: It happens. Steve: -or eight questions that we get from new people or really even experienced real estate people, like, "What do you mean you send offers out for 20% of what the property's actually worth?" Jill: Exactly. Steve: How do you deal with that? There truly is a line between... There's a thin line between offering $25 for a piece of property, which I personally think is ridiculous. Some people do it with success. Jill: Right. Steve: We'll talk about all that. Jill: Thank you. Steve: Before we get into it, though, let's take a question posted by one of our members on the LandAcademy.com online community, it's free. Jill: I would like to add on the LandInvestors.com online community, it's free. Steve: Oh, yes. You'll get there. Jill: It's okay. Steve: You'll get there both ways. Jill: That's true. Lucas wrote, "Hi, everyone. Lucas here from Greenville, South Carolina. For some reason, I'm extremely nervous and excited at the same time. After reading the book-" Steve: Are you crying? Crying on the inside. Jill: That's daily. That's kind of how I wake up, nervous and excited. You're not alone, Lucas. Steve: Crying on the inside and laughing on the outside. That's how I wake up. Jill: "That's right. After reading your ebook, listening to the podcasts and watching YouTube interviews, I have become convinced that I want to do this and I could be good at this. I love data. Steve: Excellent. Jill: "I'm part of a manufacturing engineering group, and my colleagues call me the data guy because I so enjoy statistics and deep diving into the metrics." This is all really good. Steve: Excellent. Jill: "And I love land. This is good. I have a dream of starting a homestead with my wife and children someday, so for the last several years, I've been scouring GIS maps and Google Earth, trying to find a hidden gem for our homestead. I have long believed that there are incredible deals out there, just waiting to be found, and I couldn't process the data in a way that was efficient. After spending hours examining attributes of parcels in numerous states, I just couldn't figure out how to get the truly amazing deal. When I saw this community, it was like a lightning bolt turning on. It hadn't even occurred to me that this could be a potential business. I have been focused on upstate South Carolina, western North Carolina, upstate New York and all of Vermont, my home state. Steve: Excellent. Vermont's a great choice. Jill: "Someday, I want to leave properties for my children, and I want them to have business savvy. I feel like I have a knack for this stuff. I just need some direction. My biggest challenge will be managing this endeavor with the time constraints of my full-time job and my life as a parent. I'm so determined, though. If I can make some success with my initial mailer and my first purchase, I know there'll be enough momentum to really change my career. I'm looking forward to meeting some of you and collaborating and sharing ideas. Thank you, Steve and Jill." Awww, that's so cool. Steve: I'm going to turn this over to you right now, just the initial part of it, anyway, because I know that you talked to people constantly in the exact same boat. Jill: There's no question. I'm looking to see. He's just kind of sharing his experiences, right? Steve: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Jill: Am I missing something? Steve: I think he joined. Jill:

How Much We Really Need to Be On the Phone (1088) Transcript: Steve:                   Steve and Jill here. Jill:                          Hi. Steve:                   Welcome to the Land Academy show, entertaining land investment talk. I'm Steven Jack Butala. Jill:                          I'm Jill Dewitt, broadcasting from sunny Southern California. Steve:                   Today Jill and I talk about how much do we really actually all need to be on the phone in this business. Jill:                          A lot. Steve:                   What are you looking at back here? Jill:                          I don't know. I thought I was ... I'm expecting people to walk by that we might recognize and so I was just kind of keeping an eye out. Steve:                   Why isn't that, Jill? Jill:                          I don't know. Anyway ... Steve:                   Before we get into the topic, let's take a question posted by one of our members on the landinvestors.com online community. It's free. Jill:                          Kyler asks, "Does anyone have experience with quiet titling a property in Texas? There are no other persons claiming ownership. There's just a cloud in the title because the property was owned in a DBA. Debt Doing Business As of a husband that is deceased. The title company instructed us to quite title the property into the wife's name. Never done this before and would love specific input and steps on how to take the process." Thank you. I love that. [crosstalk 00:01:11]. Steve:                   Kevin answers this perfectly. Kevin, our moderator on land investors and then I'll have a couple of comments right after. Jill:                          Thank you for sharing. Steve:                   What does that mean? Jill:                          I don't know. I just think silly. Steve:                   What does that mean? Jill:                          I don't know. Steve:                   Thank you for sharing. This is what the show is. I share some stuff. You share some stuff. Jill:                          Just the way you interjected there. I thought it was funny. Kevin, our moderator is going to answer this perfectly and we're going to get right back to you in a moment. Steve:                   You know why I said it that way? I had to get it in there quickly because I think you're ready to just jump in. Jill:                          I was. That's usually what I do. Steve:                   Sometimes Kevin answers. Sometimes not. Sometimes Kevin answers perfect. Perfectly, and I just throw it in here. You were about to go off the teleprompter again. Jill:                          No, I wasn't. I was continuing to read. I can [inaudible 00:02:01]. Steve:                   Jill's famous for going off script. Jill:                          Really? Steve:                   Yeah. Jill:                          I don't think it's me. Steve:                   Famously. Jill:                          All right. Anyway, Kyler, I would not pay for quiet title and put the property in the wife's name. You could lose control of it. This is good advice. She might sell it to your friend after you've paid for the quiet title. Quiet title can take about three months and will cost some money, maybe two to $3,000. if you go this route, you can get an attorney to help you make the agreement with the wife to accept the purchase amount and make no claim on the quiet title. Bottom line is talk to an attorney on this one if it's worth it. That's such good advice. Steve:                   It's great advice and what he's talking about. What this whole topic is is called equitable title. It's everywhere in the whole country. Equitable title means you don't own the property but you have an interest in it. This is what actually foreclosing on a tax lien is. You have a an interest in the property because you own that tax lien. Let's say you bought the tax lien from the country.

Impressive Automation with Our Succesful Member Joe McCall Jack Butala: Impressive Automation with Our Succesful Member Joe McCall. Every Single month we give away a property for free. It's super simple to qualify. Two simple steps. Leave us your feedback for this podcast on iTunes and number two, get the free ebook at landacademy.com, you don't even have to read it. Thanks for listening. Jill DeWit: Jack and Jill here, from the Cash Flow From Land Show. Today we have with us Joe McCall. Joe has flipped several hundred deals and help students flip hundreds more. He loves doing deals and coaching students to do the same. He has been fortunate to receive more student testimonials than he can count. Joe invests remotely in multiple markets. He loves creating automated marketing systems. I have a lot of questions about that. Thank you Joe, glad you're with us today. Joe McCall: Thank you, Jill. Steve, are you there? Steve: I am, I'm here. Joe McCall: All right, nice. Steve: I love automated marketing systems too. Joe McCall: I know, man. I couldn't do what I do without it. Steve: You know, when people click on the thing and they check out and there's money. That's the kind of automated system I like. Joe McCall: Yes, that's true. There's different kinds of businesses in real estate. When you're wholesaling houses, that's one of the the hardest things to automate, I think, because you are dealing with people. Every house is different. You've got buyers, you've got sellers, you've got lenders, you've got title companies, you've got wholesalers that you're dealing with. I've been fortunate enough to find a way to automate all of that stuff. Steve: Share it with us. I can't wait to hear this. Joe McCall: It involves using people. You can't get away from people. The bottom line ... I'll just tell you my story real quick, I'll try to be fast. By the way, I'm honored to be on your show, guys. I've listened to a ton of your podcasts. You're one of my favorite podcasts. In fact, my favorite podcast app is called Pocket Casts, and you're always at the top when I open up my app because you come out with new episodes all the time, which is really smart. People can't forget you because you're always at the top of their feed. Jill DeWit: Wait, isn't it because of me that they don't forget us? Just kidding. Joe McCall: Well, Jill, you are the star of the show. Steve: Exactly. Jill DeWit: Thank you. Steve: Jill's the lead singer, and I'm the guitarist in the back. Joe McCall: Anyway, I started out ... I bought a bunch of courses and signed up for coaching, I was one of those seminar junkies. I would buy everything and go to every webinar and boot camp. Spending a ton of money on education and not making anything. Finally, my back was against the wall, I had bought a bunch of houses when it was easy. The market crashed, I went with it, and I had a serious cash flow problem. I started wholesaling houses regularly, but I was getting real frustrated with throwing away so much money after dead marketing. I realized early on the importance of marketing. We are not in the real estate business, we're not in the land business. We're in the marketing business, plain and simple. No matter what kind of deals you're doing, you're in the marketing business. That's who you are if you want to have success in this business. You've got to be an expert at marketing and lead generation. Which you guys are, and your letters work like crazy. Almost too well, were getting overwhelmed with leads right now and deals. Anyway, I realized early on the importance of marketing. I started doing tons of postcards, and I realized that if I don't get somebody else to do it for me, it's just not going to get done. I started creating systems to get marketing done, what I call, "For you, in spite of you." Right about 2008, 2009, I started wholesaling lease options because I got tired of throwing away tons of leads that didn't ha...

Impressive Automation with Our Succesful Member Joe McCall Jack Butala: Impressive Automation with Our Succesful Member Joe McCall. Every Single month we give away a property for free. It's super simple to qualify. Two simple steps. Leave us your feedback for this podcast on iTunes and number two, get the free ebook at landacademy.com, you don't even have to read it. Thanks for listening. Jill DeWit: Jack and Jill here, from the Cash Flow From Land Show. Today we have with us Joe McCall. Joe has flipped several hundred deals and help students flip hundreds more. He loves doing deals and coaching students to do the same. He has been fortunate to receive more student testimonials than he can count. Joe invests remotely in multiple markets. He loves creating automated marketing systems. I have a lot of questions about that. Thank you Joe, glad you're with us today. Joe McCall: Thank you, Jill. Steve, are you there? Steve: I am, I'm here. Joe McCall: All right, nice. Steve: I love automated marketing systems too. Joe McCall: I know, man. I couldn't do what I do without it. Steve: You know, when people click on the thing and they check out and there's money. That's the kind of automated system I like. Joe McCall: Yes, that's true. There's different kinds of businesses in real estate. When you're wholesaling houses, that's one of the the hardest things to automate, I think, because you are dealing with people. Every house is different. You've got buyers, you've got sellers, you've got lenders, you've got title companies, you've got wholesalers that you're dealing with. I've been fortunate enough to find a way to automate all of that stuff. Steve: Share it with us. I can't wait to hear this. Joe McCall: It involves using people. You can't get away from people. The bottom line ... I'll just tell you my story real quick, I'll try to be fast. By the way, I'm honored to be on your show, guys. I've listened to a ton of your podcasts. You're one of my favorite podcasts. In fact, my favorite podcast app is called Pocket Casts, and you're always at the top when I open up my app because you come out with new episodes all the time, which is really smart. People can't forget you because you're always at the top of their feed. Jill DeWit: Wait, isn't it because of me that they don't forget us? Just kidding. Joe McCall: Well, Jill, you are the star of the show. Steve: Exactly. Jill DeWit: Thank you. Steve: Jill's the lead singer, and I'm the guitarist in the back. Joe McCall: Anyway, I started out ... I bought a bunch of courses and signed up for coaching, I was one of those seminar junkies. I would buy everything and go to every webinar and boot camp. Spending a ton of money on education and not making anything. Finally, my back was against the wall, I had bought a bunch of houses when it was easy. The market crashed, I went with it, and I had a serious cash flow problem. I started wholesaling houses regularly, but I was getting real frustrated with throwing away so much money after dead marketing. I realized early on the importance of marketing. We are not in the real estate business, we're not in the land business. We're in the marketing business, plain and simple. No matter what kind of deals you're doing, you're in the marketing business. That's who you are if you want to have success in this business. You've got to be an expert at marketing and lead generation. Which you guys are, and your letters work like crazy. Almost too well, were getting overwhelmed with leads right now and deals. Anyway, I realized early on the importance of marketing. I started doing tons of postcards, and I realized that if I don't get somebody else to do it for me, it's just not going to get done. I started creating systems to get marketing done, what I call, "For you, in spite of you." Right about 2008, 2009, I started wholesaling lease options because I got tired of throwing away tons of leads that didn't ha...

How to Buy Anything for Half Price Jack Butala: How to Buy Anything for Half Price. Every Single month we give away a property for free. It's super simple to qualify. Two simple steps. Leave us your feedback for this podcast on iTunes and number two, get the free ebook at landacademy.com, you don't even have to read it. Thanks for listening. Steve: Jack Butala here from Land Academy. Welcome to our Cash Flow From Land show. Today Jill and I talk about how to buy anything for half price. Well what the heck does that have to do with real estate? I'll tell you. Jill, great show today. Before we start, let's take a question posted from SuccessPlant.com, our free online community. Jill: Cool. All right. Brent from Dallas asks: "I'm a brand new real estate investor. I'm in the very beginning stages of starting my real estate investing business, and I was curious if anyone had advice on where I should start from step one. Should I start marketing the motivated sellers without a business entity, or get a business structure first? Feel free to add any tips for now. I'm just starting out. Thanks." Steve: Hey, I'll answer that in a second. If you have a question, or you want to be on our show, please call 800-725-8816. Great question. I think a lot of people have it. I'm sure a ton of listeners have the exact same question. Where do you start? So this is what you do. Marketing certainly is not where you start. You always start with education on anything that you want to accomplish, in my opinion. You want to start with free education. You don't want to plow a bunch of money into something that you're really not going to follow through on. If you're interested in real estate do two things: Get our fee eBook at LandAcademy.com, that will get you in a system, give you some exercises, some hands-on stuff; and get yourself a username at BiggerPockets.com. Jill and I have no affiliation, but it's a huge community of very experienced and completely brand, spanking new real estate investors of all different types: apartments, land, houses, the whole thing. Start utilizing those two free resources, that's step one. We'll talk about marketing and all that stuff, eventually, and business structure. A lot of people say, "Hey, I need to start an LLC before I do anything." Leave that down the road. Get educated. You might not like real estate at all. Maybe you would rather open a website eventually, and sell stuff that you by from China. I don't know, but find out for free. Jill: I love the things you just pull out of mid air. Like, whatever. Maybe you want to sell sunglasses in a kiosk at the mall. What the heck? Remember when we talked about that a long time ago? Steve: Selling sunglasses? Jill: We did. Oh gosh. Steve: That was for the kids. Jill: Oh, all right. But we- Steve: Yeah. One of the kids had an idea to do that. Jill: Yeah. Because you and I, sometimes before we started ... I hope it's okay I'm jumping in ahead here. Steve: Yeah. Jill: Right. Before we started Land Academy because our land business was rolling and it was going so smooth, you and I were like, "Well what should we do now?" Steve: We were bored. Yeah, "What are we're going to do?" Jill: That's exactly it. We started looking around at all kinds of crazy things like, "Gee, I wonder how much that makes." It's like driving for dollars, but driving for businesses, like, "Gee, what's a good business to ..." You know? Walking through the mall going, "Oh, I could do that. Look at the return they get." Steve: You know what I do sometimes late at night on the Internet? I look for dry cleaners for sale. I'm just fascinated with that business. I don't mean a dry cleaner plant. Next time you walk into the dry cleaner. If it's one of those that have an actual ... They don't clean the clothes. They just have one of those big,

How to Buy Anything for Half Price Jack Butala: How to Buy Anything for Half Price. Every Single month we give away a property for free. It's super simple to qualify. Two simple steps. Leave us your feedback for this podcast on iTunes and number two, get the free ebook at landacademy.com, you don't even have to read it. Thanks for listening. Steve: Jack Butala here from Land Academy. Welcome to our Cash Flow From Land show. Today Jill and I talk about how to buy anything for half price. Well what the heck does that have to do with real estate? I'll tell you. Jill, great show today. Before we start, let's take a question posted from SuccessPlant.com, our free online community. Jill: Cool. All right. Brent from Dallas asks: "I'm a brand new real estate investor. I'm in the very beginning stages of starting my real estate investing business, and I was curious if anyone had advice on where I should start from step one. Should I start marketing the motivated sellers without a business entity, or get a business structure first? Feel free to add any tips for now. I'm just starting out. Thanks." Steve: Hey, I'll answer that in a second. If you have a question, or you want to be on our show, please call 800-725-8816. Great question. I think a lot of people have it. I'm sure a ton of listeners have the exact same question. Where do you start? So this is what you do. Marketing certainly is not where you start. You always start with education on anything that you want to accomplish, in my opinion. You want to start with free education. You don't want to plow a bunch of money into something that you're really not going to follow through on. If you're interested in real estate do two things: Get our fee eBook at LandAcademy.com, that will get you in a system, give you some exercises, some hands-on stuff; and get yourself a username at BiggerPockets.com. Jill and I have no affiliation, but it's a huge community of very experienced and completely brand, spanking new real estate investors of all different types: apartments, land, houses, the whole thing. Start utilizing those two free resources, that's step one. We'll talk about marketing and all that stuff, eventually, and business structure. A lot of people say, "Hey, I need to start an LLC before I do anything." Leave that down the road. Get educated. You might not like real estate at all. Maybe you would rather open a website eventually, and sell stuff that you by from China. I don't know, but find out for free. Jill: I love the things you just pull out of mid air. Like, whatever. Maybe you want to sell sunglasses in a kiosk at the mall. What the heck? Remember when we talked about that a long time ago? Steve: Selling sunglasses? Jill: We did. Oh gosh. Steve: That was for the kids. Jill: Oh, all right. But we- Steve: Yeah. One of the kids had an idea to do that. Jill: Yeah. Because you and I, sometimes before we started ... I hope it's okay I'm jumping in ahead here. Steve: Yeah. Jill: Right. Before we started Land Academy because our land business was rolling and it was going so smooth, you and I were like, "Well what should we do now?" Steve: We were bored. Yeah, "What are we're going to do?" Jill: That's exactly it. We started looking around at all kinds of crazy things like, "Gee, I wonder how much that makes." It's like driving for dollars, but driving for businesses, like, "Gee, what's a good business to ..." You know? Walking through the mall going, "Oh, I could do that. Look at the return they get." Steve: You know what I do sometimes late at night on the Internet? I look for dry cleaners for sale. I'm just fascinated with that business. I don't mean a dry cleaner plant. Next time you walk into the dry cleaner. If it's one of those that have an actual ... They don't clean the clothes. They just have one of those big,

Planning the Rest of Your Life Today Jack Butala: Planning the Rest of Your Life Today. Every Single month we give away a property for free. It's super simple to qualify. Two simple steps. Leave us your feedback for this podcast on iTunes and number two, get the free ebook at landacademy.com, you don't even have to read it. Thanks for listening. Steve: Jack Butala here from Land Academy. Welcome to our Cash Flow from Land Show. In this episode, Jill and I talk about planning the rest of your life today. Jill, is there anything more important than this to do today? Jill: No. Steve: I still do it sometimes. Jill: I love it. Steve: Before we really get into, let's take a question. Jill: Okay. Brian from Seattle called in and asked, "You guys are great. I am all in. How can I convince my wife?" Steve: He's all in. Have you talked to him? Jill: I have talked to him and this is true. Steve: Of course it is, I know. I'm wondering if he's like, is he a member? Jill: [crosstalk 00:00:41] Steve: Is he a member is what I'm asking. Jill: Yeah he is. This is why I actually threw this in here because this is real and I think this comes up more than you realize Steven. Steve: Oh, you're qualified to answer this more than me. Jill: I am qualified to answer this because this is what I told Brian on a couple things. One, have her call me. No, seriously. There's something to be said for that. We women look at things differently. Steve: Really? Jill: You're so silly. Nice. Oh my goodness. All right. We all know it's true. Our gut, we have these things. We see things differently and it's a good thing. You know, if you, how do I say this? When you're looking at something, you want your wife's input. A, she might pick up on something that you missed, so that's a really good thing. Have her evaluate the situation, or the investment, or whatever it is with you. Then, for that reason. B, she better be on board or it's not going to work, so you want her to be all in. That's a good thing. Here's what I tell Brian, a couple things. A, I'm happy to talk to her. B, get her involved, listen to her. C, if she's not sure that this is something, that would be to doing our just buying and selling land and making a profit, agree on a dollar amount. Say hey sweetheart, I want to spend five hundred dollars, buy a property, make some money. I'm going to show it to you as a working example, what do you think? Because that's what he did and she was like, "Oh, I'm in." Steve: That's good. Jill: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Steve: You know, I'm going to have two points to make here. One, you should never get into any partnership or stay in one, whether it's in marriage or a business partnership or any two people doing anything if you're not better together. Jill: True. Steve: Sometimes you find out about that later and you make some changes, but two people have to be better together, so if his wife's concerned it's not a bad thing, it's a good thing, right? Then, my second point is, I have a peeve, you want to hear what it is? Jill: Uh oh, yes. Steve: Don't just say, no you're not going to get into the land business. Say, you know what? I love your spirit. I don't want to work at this job the rest of my life either, but land's not my thing at all, but I would love to own an ice cream shop, or I would love to buy skyscrapers. Land is too small. Let's go bigger. Let's provide a solution too, not just like a bitch. Jill: What your peeve is, just people that just shut down ideas for no reason? Steve: Yeah, or just say no. Like remember your parents used to do that. No. Jill: Steven are you speaking from experience? Where did this peeve come from? Steve: I have spent a lot of time in Detroit. There's a lot of people in Detroit who are, they're just, you know. My dad calls it quietly desperate, which I think is a poem or some crazy quote from some car guy somewhere. Jill: Quietly desperate.

Planning the Rest of Your Life Today Jack Butala: Planning the Rest of Your Life Today. Every Single month we give away a property for free. It's super simple to qualify. Two simple steps. Leave us your feedback for this podcast on iTunes and number two, get the free ebook at landacademy.com, you don't even have to read it. Thanks for listening. Steve: Jack Butala here from Land Academy. Welcome to our Cash Flow from Land Show. In this episode, Jill and I talk about planning the rest of your life today. Jill, is there anything more important than this to do today? Jill: No. Steve: I still do it sometimes. Jill: I love it. Steve: Before we really get into, let's take a question. Jill: Okay. Brian from Seattle called in and asked, "You guys are great. I am all in. How can I convince my wife?" Steve: He's all in. Have you talked to him? Jill: I have talked to him and this is true. Steve: Of course it is, I know. I'm wondering if he's like, is he a member? Jill: [crosstalk 00:00:41] Steve: Is he a member is what I'm asking. Jill: Yeah he is. This is why I actually threw this in here because this is real and I think this comes up more than you realize Steven. Steve: Oh, you're qualified to answer this more than me. Jill: I am qualified to answer this because this is what I told Brian on a couple things. One, have her call me. No, seriously. There's something to be said for that. We women look at things differently. Steve: Really? Jill: You're so silly. Nice. Oh my goodness. All right. We all know it's true. Our gut, we have these things. We see things differently and it's a good thing. You know, if you, how do I say this? When you're looking at something, you want your wife's input. A, she might pick up on something that you missed, so that's a really good thing. Have her evaluate the situation, or the investment, or whatever it is with you. Then, for that reason. B, she better be on board or it's not going to work, so you want her to be all in. That's a good thing. Here's what I tell Brian, a couple things. A, I'm happy to talk to her. B, get her involved, listen to her. C, if she's not sure that this is something, that would be to doing our just buying and selling land and making a profit, agree on a dollar amount. Say hey sweetheart, I want to spend five hundred dollars, buy a property, make some money. I'm going to show it to you as a working example, what do you think? Because that's what he did and she was like, "Oh, I'm in." Steve: That's good. Jill: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Steve: You know, I'm going to have two points to make here. One, you should never get into any partnership or stay in one, whether it's in marriage or a business partnership or any two people doing anything if you're not better together. Jill: True. Steve: Sometimes you find out about that later and you make some changes, but two people have to be better together, so if his wife's concerned it's not a bad thing, it's a good thing, right? Then, my second point is, I have a peeve, you want to hear what it is? Jill: Uh oh, yes. Steve: Don't just say, no you're not going to get into the land business. Say, you know what? I love your spirit. I don't want to work at this job the rest of my life either, but land's not my thing at all, but I would love to own an ice cream shop, or I would love to buy skyscrapers. Land is too small. Let's go bigger. Let's provide a solution too, not just like a bitch. Jill: What your peeve is, just people that just shut down ideas for no reason? Steve: Yeah, or just say no. Like remember your parents used to do that. No. Jill: Steven are you speaking from experience? Where did this peeve come from? Steve: I have spent a lot of time in Detroit. There's a lot of people in Detroit who are, they're just, you know. My dad calls it quietly desperate, which I think is a poem or some crazy quote from some car guy somewhere. Jill: Quietly desperate.

How to Teach and Learn - Education in the 21st Century Jack Butala: How to Teach and Learn - Education in the 21st Century. Every Single month we give away a property for free. It's super simple to qualify. Two simple steps. Leave us your feedback for this podcast on iTunes and number two, get the free ebook at landacademy.com, you don't even have to read it. Thanks for listening. Steve: Jack Butala here from Land Academy. Welcome to our Cash Flow From Land show. In this episode Jill and I talk about modern education. How to teach, and learn, and educate in the 21st century. Jill this is not your grandfather's classroom. I don't- Jill: Or mine. Steve: Or yeah, exactly. Jill: Not even mine. Steve: I've been waiting to do this show for a long time. Before we get into it, let's take a call. Let's take a question from a caller. Jill: You just made me think about, when you said my grandfather's class, you might think you, it makes me think of Little House on the Prairie. It could have been that. Steve: Oh, my God. You know where I got that line, a long time ago? Jill: Yeah, where is that? Steve: It's was the Oldsmobile tagline for years and years and years; this is not your grandfather's Oldsmobile. Jill: You know what Steven? That line would have been really good for our clichés the other day. Steve: Yeah. Come up with something better Steve. That's what she's really saying. Jill: Yeah. That's kind of what I'm saying. Steve: Think a little harder Steve. I know you got it in you. Jill: Not our classroom even. You know what? Hold on a moment. I think right now, I'll get more into it in a minute, but I even think that right now that the classroom, in four years even a lot changes. It used to be ten years for big changes. You know what I mean? Now the gap is getting smaller I think. The kids that are graduating college right now, four years from now what those kids are going to be going through is going to be leaps and bounds. Steve: Before e get into this topic, let's take a question from a caller. Jill: Thanks a lot. That would be Jill, back on track. Okay, all right, all right. Okay, Kelly from Kansas called in and asked, "Can I do this part time and keep my day job? I'm not unhappy, but I'd like to slowly start building up my plan B." Steve: Excellent. Jill: I like that. Steve: I think you're more qualified to answer this than me. Jill: Is it because I work part time? Is that where you're going with this? Steve: No, that's not where I was going, but that's true too. Jill: Thanks a lot. I rolled in here like right before the show. Steve: Yeah. That's what happens. We have a lot that goes into this. It's not just 30 minutes of horsing around. Jill: Do you know what though? Here's my point though. I'm mentally here. I may not physically be here. Correct? I'm in the car, we're talking. Steve: There's a lot of work to this. Jill: I know. Okay. Steve: You can sub out, here's the thing about podcasts and radio shows, there's a lot you can sub out. You can sub out the sound engineering, but you can't sub the talent out, or the writing. All right? There's some stuff that goes on. It doesn't sound like, it sounds like this is just we sat down with the tape recorder and did this. Maybe that's good or bad, I don't know. Jill: [inaudible 00:02:44] we talk about over coffee. Steve: Yeah, but if you don't like that kind of show, you're probably not listening to this anyway. Jill: Exactly. Steve: That's fine. Jill: Okay. Thank you. All right, so Kelly, can you do this part time and keep your day job? Absolutely. We have a number of people in our community that this is their end goal, sooner versus later, but we tell everybody, "Don't quit your day job yet. Let's make sure you get this going, you get in the system, you're financially stable, and then it's stupid for you to keep your day job," so for you Kelly, you can tone it up,

How to Teach and Learn - Education in the 21st Century Jack Butala: How to Teach and Learn - Education in the 21st Century. Every Single month we give away a property for free. It's super simple to qualify. Two simple steps. Leave us your feedback for this podcast on iTunes and number two, get the free ebook at landacademy.com, you don't even have to read it. Thanks for listening. Steve: Jack Butala here from Land Academy. Welcome to our Cash Flow From Land show. In this episode Jill and I talk about modern education. How to teach, and learn, and educate in the 21st century. Jill this is not your grandfather's classroom. I don't- Jill: Or mine. Steve: Or yeah, exactly. Jill: Not even mine. Steve: I've been waiting to do this show for a long time. Before we get into it, let's take a call. Let's take a question from a caller. Jill: You just made me think about, when you said my grandfather's class, you might think you, it makes me think of Little House on the Prairie. It could have been that. Steve: Oh, my God. You know where I got that line, a long time ago? Jill: Yeah, where is that? Steve: It's was the Oldsmobile tagline for years and years and years; this is not your grandfather's Oldsmobile. Jill: You know what Steven? That line would have been really good for our clichés the other day. Steve: Yeah. Come up with something better Steve. That's what she's really saying. Jill: Yeah. That's kind of what I'm saying. Steve: Think a little harder Steve. I know you got it in you. Jill: Not our classroom even. You know what? Hold on a moment. I think right now, I'll get more into it in a minute, but I even think that right now that the classroom, in four years even a lot changes. It used to be ten years for big changes. You know what I mean? Now the gap is getting smaller I think. The kids that are graduating college right now, four years from now what those kids are going to be going through is going to be leaps and bounds. Steve: Before e get into this topic, let's take a question from a caller. Jill: Thanks a lot. That would be Jill, back on track. Okay, all right, all right. Okay, Kelly from Kansas called in and asked, "Can I do this part time and keep my day job? I'm not unhappy, but I'd like to slowly start building up my plan B." Steve: Excellent. Jill: I like that. Steve: I think you're more qualified to answer this than me. Jill: Is it because I work part time? Is that where you're going with this? Steve: No, that's not where I was going, but that's true too. Jill: Thanks a lot. I rolled in here like right before the show. Steve: Yeah. That's what happens. We have a lot that goes into this. It's not just 30 minutes of horsing around. Jill: Do you know what though? Here's my point though. I'm mentally here. I may not physically be here. Correct? I'm in the car, we're talking. Steve: There's a lot of work to this. Jill: I know. Okay. Steve: You can sub out, here's the thing about podcasts and radio shows, there's a lot you can sub out. You can sub out the sound engineering, but you can't sub the talent out, or the writing. All right? There's some stuff that goes on. It doesn't sound like, it sounds like this is just we sat down with the tape recorder and did this. Maybe that's good or bad, I don't know. Jill: [inaudible 00:02:44] we talk about over coffee. Steve: Yeah, but if you don't like that kind of show, you're probably not listening to this anyway. Jill: Exactly. Steve: That's fine. Jill: Okay. Thank you. All right, so Kelly, can you do this part time and keep your day job? Absolutely. We have a number of people in our community that this is their end goal, sooner versus later, but we tell everybody, "Don't quit your day job yet. Let's make sure you get this going, you get in the system, you're financially stable, and then it's stupid for you to keep your day job," so for you Kelly, you can tone it up,

3 Reasons We all Need a Great Land Engineer Jack Butala: 3 Reasons We all Need a Great Land Engineer. Every Single month we give away a property for free. It's super simple to qualify. Two simple steps. Leave us your feedback for this podcast on iTunes and number two, get the free ebook at landacademy.com, you don't even have to read it. Thanks for listening. Steve: Jack Butala here for Land Academy. Welcome to our Cash Flow for the Land show. In this episode Jill and I talk about the 3 reasons we all need a great land engineer. Here's a prelude. To make great and timely acquisitions decisions, that's number one. Create top notch pictures and maps and maybe most importantly, to call out presentation quality attributes in the property that you buy. You know how professional people see stuff that we don't sometimes see? Jill: Mm-hmm (affirmative) I do. Steve: I love this. Jill, I love quality map engineering. I think it's one of the focal points that makes or breaks a good operation. Before we get into the details let's hear a question from a caller. Jill: Sure. Okay, Fred from Indianapolis called in and asked, "I've been listening for awhile now and I'm looking for my cabin lot to retire. How can this help me?" He is ... we have a couple of people that are ... Steve: Yeah, we do. Jill: ... About our program and listening and learning this to be able to do that. Steve: Can I answer this? Jill: Yeah. Steve: We get enough calls and questions from people who don't really want to start real estate companies like our members now. They just want exactly what this caller wants, they want to really get a great deal on a primary residence or a property to build a cabin on at any point in their life. Hey Fred, don't wait for us. Jill and I have decided we are going to do an educational program that's very specifically for people who just want to do one or two deals. A way scaled down version of how to do a mailer and things like that. Don't wait for us to complete that, because lord knows it's kind of far down on the list of programs that we're ... upon request programs that Jill and I are creating. Yes, the answer is heck yes. When you really do the math, the price of the education and the price of the data to implement what you're talking about will save you times ten. Jill: That's true. Steve: If you save $10,000 and our stuff is way less expensive than that, but I'm just using that number. If you implement our program and you buy a lot of $10,000 less than you expected, I mean ... Jill: You've won. Steve: Like times 5, it's 5 times more than the education costs. Jill: Exactly. Steve: If you do it the way we suggest that you do it, you're more likely going to save $20-$30-$40,000. Jill: What I love, too, is I have had a number of people that said, "Wait a minute, so here's what I did, I had 4 lots in the area that really piqued my interest, so I bought all 4. I'm living on this one, I put my cabin on this one, I sold the other 3 and guess what, it paid for it times ... and then some!" I'm like, "Brilliant!" Then they're out, they're happy. Steve: Then you're not retired anymore, because this is your new business. Jill: Well, you could keep going, that's true. Steve: You realize how easy it is and how little time it takes after you know what you're doing. After the learning curve. Jill: Yeah, after you do a couple of deals, you're right. You get into it and it's not hard. You could just sit. In his situation you could just sit and wait for the home runs to land in your lap and only act on those. Steve: Yeah, we have members who do that all the time. "I want to make $10,000 on every deal I do and I don't need to do a lot of deals." So they let the little ones go. Jill: Exactly. Steve: They feed them to the rest our community on success plans. Jill: Kind of like I do sometimes. Steve: We have a deal board. We have this thing called Deal Board for our members...