Podcast appearances and mentions of Shaun Anderson

This week on Chasin' the Racin' podcast, Dom and Joe are joined by Shaun Anderson who is soon joined by his wife Sarah. These guys are a road racing power couple having both set off down Bray Hill whether that being the TT or the Manx. They chat about both of their careers and hopes for their future both for themselves and their brand new baby Emma and tell us about Shaun's Manx GP win days before Sarah gave birth. Enjoy - CTR x Powered by OMG Racing     Supported by JCT Truck and Trailer Rental     Sponsor of the ep: Pipe Were Bikes Ltd - UK based manufacture of motorbike silencers and link pipes who cater for over 400 bikes with 80 silencer options on most bikes. There are over 80,000 variations in the range. 2024 has seen Pipe Werx's involvement with 4 TT podiums (one being Dom's), 4 x 130+mph laps around the mountain course, 2 BSB championship wins (Lewis Rollo winning Superbike Pathway & Cameron Hall winning Supersport Cup) amongst many riders using Pipe Werx exhausts at BSB, TT, Manx GP - silencing the competition.  If you're interested in sponsoring an episode of the podcast, please don't hesitate to get in touch via email to chasintheracin@outlook.com       ------------       If you would like to get a signed copy of Alan Carter's book please follow the following link below. We ship all merch and the book worldwide!   Shop CTR merchandise & AC book: https://chasintheracin.myshopify.com         CTR Patreon Page: https://patreon.com/MotorbikePod?utm_...         -------------         SOCIALS:       Instagram: @chasintheracinpod       Facebook: Chasin' The Racin' Podcast       X: @motorbikepod

Para-athlete Shaun Anderson will represent South Africa at the 2024 Paralympics in archery.In 2004, Anderson had his arm amputated after a motorbike accident. He picked up archery as a sport while looking for an activity to do with his son, and became motivated to try it out after hearing staff at an archery shop say he could not shoot with one arm.He and many of Team South Africa's Paralympians spoke to EWN ahead of the 2024 Paris Paralympic Games, which kick off on Thursday. Palesa Manaleng, EWN reporter joins us on the line for more on talking to Shaun and other Paralympians See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Miami Marlins vs. Atlanta Braves MLB Pick Prediction 8/2/2024 by Tony T. Marlins at Braves—Shaun Anderson is the starter for Miami. Anderson appeared in four games dealing an ERA of 11.42 with WHIP of 2.77. The righthander fans 13.5% with 1.9% walks. Ground balls dealt at 33.3% with 1.04 home runs per nine innings. A FIP of 3.44 does suggest a massive drop in ERA based on his form. Spencer Schwellenbach to start for Atlanta. Schellenbach has 10 starts, with an ERA of 4.06 and WHIP of 1.06. The righty is striking out 25.5% with 4.3% walks. Ground balls come in at 37.7% with 1.09 home runs per nine innings.

Shaun Anderson allowed six runs on nine hits while notching three strikeouts in his 3 1/3-inning start as the Marlins were shutout 9-0. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Shaun Anderson faced some adversity in his first start for Miami since he was acquired from Texas in May as the Marlins lost to the Nationals 8-1. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this conversation with Dr. Shaun Anderson, Shamir and Niha talk about the greatest black athletes including Michael Jordan, Serena Williams, Lebron James about their approaches to standing up for social justice. Hear Dr. Anderson explain the story behind his book, the Black Athlete Revolt. He explains the genesis of athletes standing up for justice, to today's impact of social media on the social movement. This episode was recorded on Dec 2022. You can buy the Black Athlete Revolt here: https://www.shaunmarqanderson.com/ https://www.amazon.com/Black-Athlete-Revolt-Movement-BlackLivesMatter/dp/1538153246

The Miami Marlins acquired right-hander Shaun Anderson on Thursday and designated right-hander Woo-Suk Go for assignment in a corresponding move. As Ely Sussman explains, Go's inclusion in the Luis Arraez trade was purely about his contract and this should not change our assessment of the deal. The Fish On First podcast is now being presented by MPT College Consulting! They pride themselves on helping clients navigate the college application process. This includes preparation for standardized testing, guidance through high school, assistance with essays and applications, and choosing the right college. Visit them today at mptcollegeconsulting.com to learn more about their services and schedule a free consultation. Follow Ely (@RealEly) and Fish On First (@FishOnFirst) on Twitter. Join the Marlins Discord server! Complete Miami Marlins coverage at FishOnFirst.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this bumper episode, Chris Pritchard and Steve Plater are joined by Northern Irish rider, Shaun Anderson.Shaun tells us what it's like racing against his wife and the nerves he feels when she's competing. A self-confessed TT fanatic, Shaun also talks of how time spent living in Austria helped shape his career and which, in his opinion, is the perfect starting place at the TT when chasing down the leading pack.Next week, we start the countdown to TT 2024, with the first of our Road to TT 2024 special episodes, so head over to ttplus.iomttraces.com now and sign up to TT+ for free! Alternatively, the audio will be available here on this podcast feed at the same time, so make sure you hit subscribe and the notification bell to download that episode as soon as it drops.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and review wherever you listen to your podcasts.www.iomttraces.com is the place for all the latest TT news and features, and search for @TTRacesOfficial for all our social channels. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Ryan Cringle returns for part two of his TT Podcast episode with Chris Pritchard and Steve Plater.In this second section, the Manxman reveals how much money riders actually spend on fuel; what he'd be happy with when TT 2024 comes to a close; and how he's labelled himself a self-confessed ‘bike wrecker'.Our next guest is Shaun Anderson. Part One of his episode is available to watch on TT+ now! Head to ttplus.iomttraces.com to sign up for free. Alternatively, the audio will be available here on this podcast feed at the same time next week, so make sure you hit subscribe and the notification bell to download that episode as soon as it drops.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and review wherever you listen to your podcasts.www.iomttraces.com is the place for all the latest TT news and features, and search for @TTRacesOfficial for all our social channels.Music by Calva Louise - latest album ‘Euphoric' out now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On this episode R&R on Sports, Larry and Howard talk all things NFL, NBA and the WNBA Finals. Then we are joined by professor and author, Dr. Shaun Anderson to discuss the power of athlete activsm. All of this and more on this week's episode of R&R on Sports. 

Dr. Shaun M. Anderson's The Black Athlete Revolt is the first book to take a historical and contemporary look at how Black athletes have used their influence to move beyond protests and create substantial change for Black Americans. As society fights to go from protest to policy reform, the revitalization of athlete activism in recent years has sparked a new platform: The Sports Justice Movement. This book details the ascension of this movement, where it is presently, and what's next.Episode Links:Book: https://rowman.com/ISBN/9781538153253/The-Black-Athlete-Revolt-The-Sport-Justice-Movement-in-the-Age-of-Web: https://www.shaunmarqanderson.com/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SportsDocATwitter: https://twitter.com/shaunmarqspeaks LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shaun-m-anderson-phd-28515414/Joey Pinz Conversations Podcast Information: • Website: https://www.joeypinz.com • Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/joeypinz • Music by Tom Izzo: @wahlsinger  https://tomizzomusic.com  Support our podcast:  • Subscribe: https://joeypinzconversations.com/subscribe/ • How much is this podcast worth to you? Consider $5, $10 or $20/mo with Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/joeypinz  • How about a one-time payment?  • What is the episode worth to you? $25/$50/$100/$500 /$1,000/$5,000 with PayPal (one-time): https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/JoePannone Please subscribe/follow to Joey Pinz Discipline Conversations Podcast: • Spotify, Apple, Google, or others.  Please consider rating with 5 stars if you like it. • Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/joey-pinz-discipline-conversations/id1583997438 • Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/69SFwY3XSwcw9qNvElAn10 • Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xODI4OTA2LnJzcw • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/JoeyPinzDisciplineConversations?sub_confirmation=1Please follow on social media: @TheJoeyPinz • Instagram: @TheJoeyPinz https://www.instagram.com/TheJoeyPinz  • Twitter: @TheJoeyPinz  https://twitter.com/TheJoeyPinz • Facebook: @TheJoeyPinz https://www.facebook.com/TheJoeyPinz • TikTok:  @TheJoeyPinz  https://www.tiktok.com/@thejoeypinz • Minds:  @TheJoeyPinz  https://www.minds.com/thejoeypinz • YouTube:  @TheJoeyPinz  https://www.youtube.com/@thejoeypinzFinally,  join our newsletter: https://joeypinzconversations.com/#newsletterSupport the show

How has sport activism changed in recent years? Are there pitfalls to major corporations pushing social justice efforts? In this series on healthcare and social disparities, Dr. Jill Wener, a board-certified Internal Medicine specialist, anti-racism educator, meditation expert, and tapping practitioner, interviews experts and gives her own insights into multiple fields relating to social justice and anti-racism. In this episode, Jill interviews Dr. Shaun Anderson, an internationally recognized scholar, proud HBCU graduate, and award-winning professor at Loyola Marymount University. They explore the history and future of athletes and activism. As a sought-after expert regarding sport and social issues, he has worked with recognized organizations such as MLB, PBS, ADL, Nike, ESPN, and lectured at several universities. As a scholar, he examines how sport has influenced business, politics, and society. He is also the founder of CSR Global Consulting, LLC, which assists organizations in developing and implementing their social responsibility initiatives. He received his BA from the University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff in Mass Communication, an MSMC from Arkansas State University in Journalism, and a PhD from West Virginia University in Communication Studies (under a W.E.B. DuBois Fellowship). LINKS @shaunmarqspeaks www.shaunmarqanderson.com The Black Athlete Revolt: The Sport Justice Movement in the Age of #BlackLivesMatter by Shaun M. Anderson Forty Million Dollar Slaves: The Rise, Fall, and Redemption of the Black Athlete by William C. Rhoden ** Our website www.consciousantiracism.com You can learn more about Dr. Wener and her online meditation and tapping courses at www.jillwener.com, and you can learn more about her online social justice course, Conscious Anti Racism: Tools for Self-Discovery, Accountability, and Meaningful Change at https://theresttechnique.com/courses/conscious-anti-racism. If you're a healthcare worker looking for a CME-accredited course, check out Conscious Anti-Racism: Tools for Self-Discovery, Accountability, and Meaningful Change in Healthcare at www.theresttechnique.com/courses/conscious-anti-racism-healthcare Join her Conscious Anti-Racism facebook group: www.facebook.com/groups/307196473283408 Follow her on: Instagram at @jillwenerMD Twitter at @jillwenerMD Facebook at @jillwenerMDmeditation LinkedIn at @jill-wener-md-682746125

Shaun Marq Anderson Given how little we are taught about Black history in general it's not surprising that most of us, me included, have relatively little knowledge of the role that Black athletes have played in the social justice movement before the late 20th century. But since the Reconstruction Era Black athletes have been pushing the envelope, trying to move us towards justice and equity. Shaun Marq Anderson and I talked about the history of Black athlete activism and how the Sports Justice Movement has been evolving over the years as well as his new book, The Black Athlete Revolt. From Black jockeys who first raced in the Kentucky Derby to Colin Kaepernick and the Black Lives Matter movement Black athletes have used their voices and public platforms to address inequities. From the flamboyant to the subtle the movement has been as diverse as the athletes participating in it. As Black athletes refuse to follow Fox anchor Laura Ingraham's directive to "shut up and dribble" their impact in their communities and the larger world continues to grow. This conversation was not only informative but fun as Shaun told me about some real characters in the history of Black athletes. Have a listen, I think you'll really enjoy it.  For a written transcript of this conversation click here. About Shaun: Shaun Marq Anderson, is a global authority on sport and social responsibility Shaun says that sport is a microcosm of society, a catalyst for conversations about business, politics, racial injustice, environmental sustainability, and other pressing social issues. Shaun researches these contemporary problems in the context of sport to determine the most effective strategies and methods to solve them. As a consultant, he has used his work to help renowned brands such as Nike, ESPN, and Major League Baseball on their social responsibility initiatives. Action Steps: 1) Reach out to retired athletes taking action on causes that you care about and explore how you might connect with them. A lot of these athletes are becoming the liaison in their teams' community development arm.  2) What are the specific policy reforms that are currently being discussed that you can add your voice to with letters to the editor, letters to your legislators, and/or raising community awareness of the conversations that are happening around legislative changes.  3) Pay attention the intersecting issues of race and gender and support women's teams in their fight for justice. Connect with Shaun: https://twitter.com/ShaunMarqSpeaks https://www.instagram.com/shaunmarqspeaks/     Credits: Harmonica music courtesy of a friend.   

Dr. Shaun M. Anderson is an award-winning Associate Professor of Organizational Communication and Advisor for the Institute for Business Ethics and Sustainability at Loyola Marymount University. He is an internationally recognized scholar that examines how sport has influenced business, politics, and society. He is also the founder of CSR Global Consulting, LLC, which assists organizations in developing and implementing their social responsibility initiatives. Shaun and I talk about some of our favourite teams we support, we discuss whether athletes should be social activists, and we also talk about how social sports programmes work and benefit the community. In addition, we talk about his new book which is called The Black Athlete Revolt: The Sports Justice Movement in the Age of #BlackLivesMatter (Rowman and Littlefield, 2023) examines the revitalization of athlete activism since the BLM movement began. Further, it explores how athletes have shifted their activism from protest to conversations on policy reform. If you want to find out more about Dr Shaun Anderson follow the links below: https://www.shaunmarqanderson.com/about-me https://www.linkedin.com/in/shaun-marq-anderson-ph-d-28515414/ https://twitter.com/ShaunMarqSpeaks https://uk.bookshop.org/contributors/shaun-m-anderson

Dr. Shaun Anderson - Internationally recognized scholar, proud HBCU graduate, and award-winning professor at Loyola Marymount University – joins Tavis to unpack his new text "The Black Athlete Revolt: The Sport Justice Movement in the Age of #BlackLivesMatter." (Feb 8th)

Dr. Shaun M. Anderson is an internationally recognized scholar, proud HBCU graduate, and award-winning professor at Loyola Marymount University.   As a sought-after expert regarding sport and social issues, he has worked with recognized organizations such as MLB, PBS, ADL, Nike, ESPN, and lectured at several universities.   As a scholar, he examines how sport has influenced business, politics, and society. He is also the founder of CSR Global Consulting, LLC, which assists organizations in developing and implementing their social responsibility initiatives.   His forthcoming book, The Black Athlete Revolt: The Sport Justice Movement in the Age of #BlackLivesMatter (Rowman and Littlefield, 2023) examines the revitalization of athlete activism since the BLM movement began. You can learn more about Shaun via his website shaunmarqanderson.com and connect with him on Twitter and Instagram For more information about James Roberts (the host of the podcast), visit jamesowenroberts.com and connect with him on Facebook, Twitter, Linkedin, Youtube, Tik Tok and Instagram

When thinking about the history of the struggle for racial equality in America, prominent individuals such as Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, Rosa Parks, Harriet Tubman, and Frederick Douglass often come to mind. However, sports have also been a vehicle to driving American society forward, with key moments including Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier in Major League Baseball, Muhammad Ali refusing to go to war in Vietnam, and Tommie Smith flashing the Black Power fist at the 1968 Olympics.These acts were met with vitriol at the time, but these athletes made their mark on and off the field by pushing society forward. When Colin Kaepernick began kneeling instead of standing for the national anthem to open a dialogue about Black people and policing in America in 2016, it also angered a significant portion of the NFL fanbase and franchise owners. Kaepernick has not played in the NFL since then, despite being 29 at the time, never officially retiring, and having made a Super Bowl appearance as a starting quarterback. Before Kaepernick, former NBA player Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf similarly sat for the national anthem as a silent protest for his religious beliefs. He was also met with derision and left the league two years later at age 28.On today's WorkInSports Podcast, we examine the societal impact of Black athletes throughout American history to contextualize today's climate of athlete activism. VP of Content and Engaged Learning Brian Clapp speaks with Dr. Shaun Anderson, Associate Professor of Organizational Communication at Loyola Marymount and author of The Black Athlete Revolt. The two discuss:• Sports' role as a catalyst for bringing societal issues to light• The history of athletes, particularly Black athletes, using their voice to drive societal change and why that movement stopped in the 80s and early 90s• The price Black athletes like Abdul-Rauf and Kaepernick pay for speaking out• The effectiveness of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion programs in what specifically?Enjoy the full episode for an enlightening perspective on the impact of Black athletes on society. Subscribe to the WorkInSports Podcast for more sports career advice, and check out our YouTube channel for additional content!

Dr. Shaun Anderson grew up in Arkansas and it wasn't easy to say the least. He was homeless twice. He attended both an HBC (Historical Black College) and a PWI (Predominately White Institution). He was the first and last African-American to be in his doctoral program. And sadly, he had to deal with so much racism at the University of West Virginia, it took him a couple of years to heal from the trauma from all the gas lighting, lies, and public humiliation on social media. Years later when Dr. A. attended a conference, someone that was in his program, much to Dr. Anderson's surprise apologized to him for how he was treated. Dr. Anderson, who is an Assistant Professor of Organizational Communication and Faculty Advisor for the Institute of Business Ethics and Sustainability at Loyola Marymount University, has a 4.5 (out of 5) rating on RateMyProfessor.Com where many of his former students call him hilarious, relatable, and caring. He earned tenure a year early and aside from the classes he normally teaches, Dr. Anderson is researching a number of issues as it relates to sport and brand activism. This includes but is not limited to, athlete activism, sports and politics as well as sports and community development He teaches courses in, race and culture in sport, communication consulting, and sport in society. He also studies complex platforms of sports and social responsibility and is the founder of CSR Global Consulting. He's worked with nike espn and major league baseball regarding social injustice initiatives and is the author of The Black Athlete Revolt. You can find him on Twitter @ShaunMarkSpeaks or on his website at, www.shaunmarqanderson.com. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/the-sports-deli/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/the-sports-deli/support

Dr. Shaun M. Anderson is an award-winning Associate Professor of Organizational Communication and Advisor for the Institute for Business Ethics and Sustainability at Loyola Marymount University. He is an internationally recognized scholar that examines how sport has influenced business, politics, and society. He is also the founder of CSR Global Consulting, LLC, which assists organizations in developing and implementing their social responsibility initiatives.Support Shaun: https://www.shaunmarqanderson.com/Check out our LIVE EventsSend us feedback at media@amplifyrj.comJoin our Mighty Networks platform to connect with other people doing this work!Rep Amplify RJ Merch You can connect with Amplify RJ:Email list, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Website, Reading list, YouTube, and TikTok!SUPPORT by sharing this podcast, leaving a rating or review, or make a tax-deductible DONATION to help us sustain and grow this movementSupport the show

While 61 percent of Americans say that athletes have a right to free speech and it is their decision to speak out for social justice, 35 percent call sports their "escape" and don't want to see any commentary other than sports. In addition, 36 percent say that athletes speaking out hinders their desire to watch games. These were the findings of a Seton Hall Sports Poll conducted November 13-16 among 1,506 American adults, geographically spread across the country. The Poll has a margin of error of +/- 3.2 percent. Shaun M. Anderson is an Associate Professor of Organizational Communication and Faculty Advisor for the Institute of Business Ethics and Sustainability at Loyola Marymount University. His teaching and research interests are focused on the effective use of corporate social responsibility within and outside of organizations, particularly, sport organizations. He has published in the Psychology of Popular Media Culture, International Journal of Sport Communication, and Sport Marketing Association conference proceedings. His latest book chapter entitled, Protest and Public Memory: Documenting the 1968 Summer Olympic Games, will be published in the upcoming book entitled, Sporting Realities: Critical Readings of the Sport Documentary. In addition to this, his work has been featured in popular press outlets such as Huffington Post, Medium.com, Western City Magazine, and WorldPolicy.org. Also, he has worked with organizations such as PBS, Football University, Major League Baseball, and the Anti-Defamation League regarding incorporating social responsibility initiatives. In 2018, he was named the Black Enterprise magazine “Modern Man of Distinction” for his commitment to work on social responsibility. He joined me this week to have an in-depth discussion about the intersection of sports, social responsibility, promoting a culture of inclusion and the athletes responsibility in advancing societal issues forward. For more information: https://www.shaunmarqanderson.com/ Twitter: @ShaunMarqSpeaks

Black athletes have used their influence to force social change for over 100 years. Today's Sport Justice Movement is the next iteration of this tradition. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/james-herlihy/message

  Exclusive interview with Paul Edouard Bertin, Director of Champagne BILLECART-SALMON about being the Seven generations of the same Billecart-Salmon Champagne family and house which was started by his many times great grandparents in 1818 in Ay outside Epernay in northeast France.   Rui Morais, CFO at Dis-Chem Pharmacies takes Bruce Whitfield through the interim financial results.  Dis-Chem beefs up its interim dividend after a jump in profit despite high inflation and interest-rate hikes squeezing consumer spending.   Shaun Anderson, Ambassador of the Embassy at Order of Champagne in Africa on the future for Champagne in Africa.   Benedict Maaga, head of Corporate Reputation & Integrated Communications at Absa on the lender's involvement with the Absa Champagne in Africa Festival 2022.   Lorraine Geldenhuys, Wine maker and senor lecture at the The Elsenburg Agricultural Training Institute – on everything champagne and blind tasting   Chris Weylandt, CEO at Weylandts is this week's shapeshifter on his career path and growth of the business. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Brian is out this week so Justin takes us through the news and what he liked and didn't like including Corbin Carroll's hot start in Arizona and Josh Hader's struggles in San Diego. Our "Fudge-ing Awesome Moment of the Week," presented by the Original Fudge Kitchen, goes to Nathaniel Lowe for being named AL Player of the Week. Finally, our top 5 this week is a starting 5 of baseball players if we had to construct a basketball starting lineup with them (:31 - 12:31). Then, we welcome on our guest for this week, Toronto Blue Jays pitcher Shaun Anderson (12:31 - 55:06). Shaun talks about his time at the University of Florida, his MLB debut for the Giants, his eventful 2021 season, and much more.    Sponsors- The Official Sponsor of Breaking Bats: The Original Fudge Kitchen Shipping fudge, saltwater taffy, sweet treats, and more across the country. https://fudgekitchens.com/   Som Sleep Som Sleeps beverages are specially formulated to promote relaxation, maintain a normal sleep cycle, and support healthy sleep patterns. Go to https://getsom.com/ and enter the code "BATS" at checkout for 10% off your order.   Presented by Not For Long Media https://www.notforlongmedia.com/   Music Credit: Intro: Coming Home; Written by Scott Woodruff and TJ O'Neill; Performed by Scott Woodruff; Courtesy of Stick Figure Outro: Weight of Sound; Written by Scott Woodruff and TJ O'Neill; Performed by Scott Woodruff and TJ O'Neill; Courtesy of Stick Figure

This week, we are sharing a replay from almost a year ago. Our one and only male guest that has been on Un[Phased] has his new book coming out imminently, so we wanted to remind our listeners of Dr. Shaun Anderson and his message. Dr. Anderson is an associate professor of organizational communications and author of the forthcoming book, The Black Athlete Revolt: The Sport Justice Movement in the Age of #BlackLivesMatter. He reminds us that sport and politics have always been mixed; athletes have long used their public platforms to call out social injustice. The difference now however is that, through social media and other outlets, athletes can control the way that they are engaging in the narratives around social injustice. The next step for all of us in the sporting community, is to begin to use these platforms to push towards engaging in true policy reform. It is not an easy fight; we are pushing against a systematic regime that has been in power for ages, but by educating ourselves, building a platform and speaking out, we can begin to make positive changes in sport and society. ***If requiring a transcript, please email amelia@livefeisty.com*** **Support the Podcast** Get 20% off at http://insidetracker.com/feisty (http://insidetracker.com/feisty) Use code livefeisty15 for 15% off at https://www.orca.com/ (https://www.orca.com/) Register for the 2022 Verizon New York City Triathlon at https://www.nyctri.com/ (https://www.nyctri.com/) Subscribe to the https://livefeisty.com/category/podcasts/feisty-womens-performance-podcast/ (Feisty Women's Performance Podcast )to catch our limited Title IX series! Get a FREE heart-rate monitor with the purchase of a Hammerhead Karoo 2. Visit http://hammerhead.io/ (hammerhead.io) and use promo code UNPHASED at checkout

Joining us this week is Shaun Anderson- part acrobat, part Youtuber, part medical student from Nevada, Las Vegas! This one's for all the premeds that give up their nonmedical hobbies to spend more time on classes and activities that will make them “appealing” to med schools. Sayeed has been there, I've been there, we hope after listening to this episode you won't get stuck there. Don't ditch your idea for a cooking social media page just because you're premed. Don't ditch your love for painting just because you're premed. Don't drop out of your awesome dance team just because you're premed. Regardless of whether they're medically related, your passions are what you should be spending your time on. More so than working some job in a hospital that you find boring because some reddit forum said you need 1000+ hours of clinical experience to get into med school. Paying less heed to these standards set for premeds makes you stand out more, makes you more successful as a student, and most importantly makes this a happier part of your life. Testament to this is Shaun's experience devoting himself fully to acrobatics as a college student. And it's that devotion, rather than any of the usual accolades premeds chase, that got him into med school. Join us for a continuation of this conversation and discussion on topics such as switching from Pre-PT to Pre-Med, being an efficient student researcher, and having a well-rounded life in med school. For more from Shaun, check out his YouTube channel: Shaun Anderson

Join Shaun Anderson, Steve Kenyon with Greener Pastures Ranching and Jay Byer with Gateway Research Organization as they discuss electric fencing systems! If you want to get in on these Virtual Networking Sessions live, they are happening every second Wednesday night at 6pm MST. Register at www.gatewayresearchorganization.com.

Join me and David Weisman, CEO of Powered by 12 as we dig into his inspiring ENTREPRENEURIAL JOURNEY. David has a unique story, DISCOVERING HIS PASSION at an early age and scaling it to become ONE OF THE BEST KNOWN VINTAGE BRANDS in the industry. Powered By 12 is loved by many A list celebrities including Pete Davidson, Shaun Anderson, and Ace Hood.In this episode you'll hear WHAT IT REALLY TAKES TO BE AN ENTREPRENEUR, and how MINDSET and FAILURE play a HUGE ROLE IN ACHIEVING SUCCESS. David tells us how the LOVE AND SUPPORT he received from his parents INFLUENCED HIS SUCCESS, and established a WORK ETHIC like no other. We also discuss the importance of NETWORKING & how to build CUSTOMER TRUST & LOYALTY. If you are looking for tips on how to network and increase sales,  this episode is for you!CONNECT WITH MATT ROSENTHALInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattrosenthal_/Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmN6yR0cuOGs6xBPTeznOeALinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-rosenthal-mindcore/CONNECT WITH DAVID WEISMAN:Email: davdweisman18@gmail.comEbay: Powered By TwelveInstagram: @poweredby12Physical Showroom:120 NE 4th StFort Lauderdale, FL  33301United StatesABOUT MATTDigging In is a podcast that uncovers the secrets to success in life, business, and health. In this weekly show, Matt Rosenthal, CEO and seasoned entrepreneur digs in with guests as they share powerful stories about what it takes to be a success. Everyone has untapped potential, and this podcast delivers a roadmap that will inspire, motivate and educate you on your personal journey.Matt Rosenthal is the President and CEO of Mindcore Technologies. In this position, Matt provides his clients with creative and transformative technology solutions. His passion and experience have a substantial impact on the businesses he works with. Matt also prides himself on being a trusted advisor to his clients as he delivers high-impact and creative ideas, strategic guidance, and thought leadership. Matt's fulfillment as a business owner and advisor lies in the satisfaction he feels when he has made a difference and truly helps others.Visit https://mind-core.com for more information.Be sure to subscribe to the podcast on Spotify!https://open.spotify.com/show/6oiWfrl9pQgUYeDKafUYE2

Host Connor Newcomb is joined by Robert Portnoy, the Play-by-Play Voice of New Mexico Lobos Athletics, to discuss Baltimore Orioles 12th round draft pick RHP Justin Armbruester. Connor and Robert talk:-How Armbruester's stuff could play even better in the bullpen-His high intensity on the mound-How he uses the data and the person he is off the fieldThen, Connor breaks down the Orioles latest roster moves, including adding Richie Martin back to the active roster and releasing five minor-leaguers, including Cody Carroll and Evan Phillips.But first, Connor recaps the Orioles 13-1 loss to the New York Yankees on Tuesday night and gives you the five things you need to know from the game, concerning Alexander Wells, Keegan Akin, Shaun Anderson, and others.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKED15,” and you'll get 15% off your next order.BetOnline AGThere is only 1 place that has you covered and 1 place we trust. Betonline.ag! Sign up today for a free account at betonline.ag and use that promocode: LOCKEDON for your 50% welcome bonus.Rock AutoAmazing selection. Reliably low prices. All the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you.Wild AlaskanRight now you can get $15 off your 1st box of premium seafood when you visit WildAlaskanCompany.com/MLB.FreshlyRight now, Freshly is offering our listeners $40 off your first two orders when you go to Freshly.com/LockedOn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Host Connor Newcomb is joined by Guerry Smith, the Tulane Beat Reporter for the New Orleans Advocate, to discuss two Baltimore Orioles draft picks — SS Collin Burns and RHP Keagan Gillies. Connor and Guerry talk:-Where all of Burns' power came from this season-How Burns added a great hit tool to an already-stellar defensive skill set-Why Gillies fell to the 15th round despite having MLB-ready stuffBut first, Connor recaps the Orioles 7-3 loss to the Miami Marlins on Tuesday night and gives you the five things you need to know from the game, concerning Spenser Watkins, Conner Greene, Shaun Anderson, and others.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKED15,” and you'll get 15% off your next order.BetOnline AGThere is only 1 place that has you covered and 1 place we trust. Betonline.ag! Sign up today for a free account at betonline.ag and use that promocode: LOCKEDON for your 50% welcome bonus.Rock AutoAmazing selection. Reliably low prices. All the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of Cloud & Culture, Shaun Anderson and Brandon Blincoe of VMware Tanzu Labs share lessons they've learned while helping large retail clients modernize their online and in-store operations. Among other things, they discuss the nuances of inventory management, the best strategies for integrating systems after acquisitions, and the potential benefits of running Kubernetes clusters inside stores.

Host Connor Newcomb is joined by two guests on the show to talk about the Baltimore Orioles two most recent waiver claims.First, Joel Penfield, a podcaster for Royals Farm Report, joins the pod to talk about INF Kelvin Gutiérrez and his time with the Royals. Then, Ben Kaspick, the Host of the Locked On Giants, joins the pod to talk about RHP Shaun Anderson and his time with the Giants.But first, Connor recaps the Orioles 10-2 loss to the Toronto Blue Jays on Wednesday night and gives you the five things you need to know from the game, concerning Matt Harvey, César Valdez, Austin Hays, and others.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKED15,” and you'll get 15% off your next order.BetOnline AGThere is only 1 place that has you covered and 1 place we trust. Betonline.ag! Sign up today for a free account at betonline.ag and use that promocode: LOCKEDON for your 50% welcome bonus.Rock AutoAmazing selection. Reliably low prices. All the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you.Fully Loaded ChewFully Loaded Chew is offering LOCKED ON “TEAM” listeners a special offer – Rightnow you can try a can for just $1. Go to www.fullyloadedchew.com and use promo code: “LockedOn” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Host Connor Newcomb is joined by Joe Doyle, the Director of MLB Draft Content at Prospects Live, to preview the 2021 MLB Draft and discuss who the Baltimore Orioles might select with the No. 5 overall pick. Joe and Connor talk:-Why HS shortstop Kahlil Watson is going to the Orioles in most mock drafts-Why the Orioles should still take a catcher like Henry Davis despite having Adley Rutschman-Could Kumar Rocker still be in the mix for Baltimore?-Plus, will the Orioles go under slot again? And much more!But first, Connor breaks down all of the Orioles roster moves that were made over the weekend, including a look at Kelvin Gutierrez and Shaun Anderson — the two newest Orioles.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKED15,” and you'll get 15% off your next order.BetOnline AGThere is only 1 place that has you covered and 1 place we trust. Betonline.ag! Sign up today for a free account at betonline.ag and use that promocode: LOCKEDON for your 50% welcome bonus.Rock AutoAmazing selection. Reliably low prices. All the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you.Fully Loaded ChewFully Loaded Chew is offering LOCKED ON “TEAM” listeners a special offer – Right now you can try a can for just $1. Go to www.fullyloadedchew.com and use promo code: “LockedOn” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of Cloud & Culture, Shaun Anderson and Felicia Schwartz of VMware Tanzu Labs explain the state of application modernization among financial services firms. They draw from firsthand knowledge working with large customers to explain the threats these firms face, the opportunities they're trying to capture, and how using processes like the Swift methodology helps them maximize their efforts and even evolve their IT culture.

In this episode of Cloud & Culture, Shaun Anderson of VMware Tanzu Labs walks us through the Swift method—a successful approach to application modernization that he helped create. Through a series of exercises, Swift helps teams identify the target behaviors and goals for their applications, and the optimal approach for delivering them.

Join us on this week's Black Doctors Talk Podcast which features our guest, Dr. Shaun Anderson. Dr. Anderson speaks to us on the topic of communication and organizational social responsibility, specifically in the professional sports arena. Dr. Anderson is currently an Assistant Professor of Organizational Communication at Loyola Marymount University as well as an author and the CEO of CSR Global Consulting, LLC where he focuses on helping organizations create strategic plans for corporate social responsibility initiatives. During the podcast, Dr. Anderson shares many personal experiences that provide inspiration and purpose for his personal and professional journey. Lessons learned from failures, doubts, and life-changing experiences have contributed to his success and his commitment to hold organizations accountable to be intentional with the social responsibilities efforts in the communities where they exist and serve. In the midst of BLM, injustice, and inequity, the conversation touches on the importance of sports organizations to advocate for inclusion and diversity within organizations and professional athleticism by advocating for Black athletes to do more than bounce, throw, or catch a ball. Dr. Anderson writes, consults, and teaches these perspectives while he remains on the front line by working with organizations like MLB, PBS, Anti-Defamation League, and others to ensure these conversations remain essential and prioritized. Dr. Anderson received his PhD in Communication Studies under a W.E.B. DuBois Fellowship from West Virginia University (2016). He holds a Master of Science in Mass Communication from Arkansas State University (2008) and a Bachelor of Arts in Mass Communication from the University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff (2005). He met his lovely wife while at West Virginia University and they currently reside in Los Angeles, California.

On today's Locked On Giants podcast, host Ben Kaspick talks about the San Francisco Giants' acquisition of LaMonte Wade Jr. in a trade with the Minnesota Twins. The Giants sent right-handed reliever Shaun Anderson to Minnesota to complete the swap. In Wade Jr., the Giants add an optionable young left-handed outfielder with athleticism and a rare combination of plate discipline and contact skills. It's an ideal foundation for the Giants' savvy hitting coaches to work with. Wade Jr. figures to surpass Steven Duggar on the Giants' outfield depth chart, and should compete for a spot on the Opening Day roster.Also discussed on today's show is the Dodgers' acquisition of ace right-hander Trevor Bauer, a move that, as Ben explains, doesn't change much for the San Francisco Giants. The 2021 PECOTA projections are also analyzed.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors! Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKEDON,” and you'll get 20% off your next order.BetOnline AGThere is only 1 place that has you covered and 1 place we trust. Betonline.ag! Sign up today for a free account at betonline.ag and use that promocode: LOCKEDON for your 50% welcome bonus. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Shaun Anderson stops by the podcast and in this interview you'll hear about his off season preparation during a covid season, his passions outside of baseball, but also a very important message from him to all giants fans.

On this episode of The Funnville Nine driven by AAA, Richmond Flying Squirrels play-by-play broadcaster Trey Wilson discusses the "Class of 2019," the group of Flying Squirrels alumni who made their major league debuts during the 2019 season. The episode features San Francisco Giants pitchers Shaun Anderson, Sam Coonrod, Conner Menez, Sam Selman, Logan Webb and Tyler Rogers. Hear the stories of their first times taking the field as major leaguers in their own words, as told to Wilson during Spring Training with the Giants in Scottsdale, Ariz. back in February and March of 2020. 

On today's Locked On Giants podcast, host Ben Kaspick talks about the San Francisco Giants' 10-5 thumping of the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim in Joey Bart's debut. Bart was a calming presence behind the plate, and he seemed to frame pitches well and made some nice blocks. He also collected his first major-league hit, a ringing double down the left field line that was hit 109.5 mph. It was the fastest extra-base hit for the Giants all season. As exciting as it was for Bart to make his debut, some of his teammates stole the show. The Giants continued to pound left-handed hitters with a right-handed-heavy lineup penciled in by manager Gabe Kapler, and put together by president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi and general manager Scott Harris. Those three, along with the new hitting coaches, deserve a lot of the credit for the Giants' offensive resurgence this season.Wilmer Flores, signed by Zaidi and Harris in the offseason to the first multi-year deal handed out under the new regime, continued to stay red hot with a two-run home run in the first inning. It was a down and in mid-90s fastball and Flores hit it out to left-center. Austin Slater also stayed hot, collecting two hits including a leadoff double in the first inning. Brandon Crawford hit his 100th career home run in this game, and opposite field shot against right-hander Julio Teheran. Believe it or not, Crawford has now been an above-average hitter on the season by FanGraphs' wRC+. Kevin Gausman started on the mound for the Giants. He wasn't as dominant as he's been at times, allowing nine hits and four runs in 5.1 innings, but he did continue to show swing and miss stuff and collected eight strikeouts. Kapler let him pitch through the Angels' order a third time, and Gausman allowed four hits including a home run that turn through the order. It was another example of a starting pitcher performing worse the deeper he pitches in a game, even when he was strong the first two times through. The Giants' bullpen made things too interesting in the seventh inning. Shaun Anderson again threw up and in to Mike Trout, which caused the Angels dugout to erupt in anger. Both benches were warned by the umpires, and Trout ended up tripling to left field later in the at-bat. Anderson then walked two more batters, and Wandy Peralta was summoned and walked in a run. He ended up getting out of it and throwing a 1-2-3 8th, but Anderson and Peralta made things too interesting in the 7th. Jarlin Garcia pitched a clean inning to wrap things up in the 9th. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's Locked On Giants podcast, host Ben Kaspick talks about the San Francisco Giants' much-needed win over the Angels on Tuesday afternoon. Coming into this game, the Giants had lost their last three games in which they had a 9th-inning lead. They blew a five-run 9th-inning lead on Friday, a three-run 9th-inning lead on Saturday, and a one-run 9th-inning lead on Monday. So the Giants hoped for a nice, easy win on Tuesday, and that's exactly what they got. Mike Yastrzemski hit a leadoff home run and made a game-altering catch that saved two runs. He's looked like a National League MVP frontrunner all season. He may not have the star power to hold off the likes of Fernando Tatis Jr. or Mookie Betts, but Yaz's MVP-like season should be recognized. He enters Monday leading the majors in FanGraphs WAR. Trevor Cahill started the game for the Giants. It was Cahill's second appearance with the Giants. His first start came on the road against the Astros, and he pitched okay but struggled with command and walked four in two innings. This time around, Cahill was sharp. He went four strong innings, allowing just one run and striking out four. Cahill joins a Giants rotation that is surprisingly decent. Kevin Gausman, Johnny Cueto, Logan Webb, Tyler Anderson, and Cahill give the Giants a chance every night. Drew Smyly should help, too, whenever he's able to come back from his index finger strain. The only Giants starter who has struggled mightily is Jeff Samardzija, who's on the IL with a shoulder injury.Giants veterans helped fuel the offense in this 8-2 win. Pablo Sandoval hit a two-run homer on a neck-high fastball, Brandon Crawford pitched in with a couple of doubles, and Brandon Belt and Evan Longoria also got in on the action. The Giants led 8-1 going into the bottom of the 9th, which still didn't feel totally comfortable given how their last three 9th-inning leads had gone. Shaun Anderson was brought in after Caleb Baragar, Sam Selman, Wandy Peralta, and Jarlin Garicia pitched clean innings in support of Cahill. Anderson, however, threw two pitches near the head of Mike Trout. It was immediately questioned whether the throws were on purpose, after Longoria was drilled in the back by a fastball earlier in the game. If intentional, Anderson should be punished and reprimanded. However, it's entirely possible that the up-and-in pitches were unintentional. Manager Gabe Kapler said after the game, "We don't throw at people. It's not who we are." Anderson ended up walking Trout and allowing a run, but ultimately he got the final three outs of the game.Rock AutoAmazing selection. Reliably low prices. All the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's Locked On Giants podcast, host Ben Kaspick talks about the Giants' thrilling 7-6 win over the San Diego Padres on Wednesday. Donovan Solano hit a three-run home run with two outs in the 8th inning that tied the game, and Mike Yastrzemski hit a leadoff home run in the bottom of the 9th to walk off the Padres. In both at-bats, the pitcher had the platoon advantage. This was a big theme in this game, as manager Gabe Kapler elected not to go with his normal platoon-heavy lineup at a few positions to start the game. Austin Slater started in right field instead of Joe McCarthy, and Donovan Solano started at third base instead of having Mauricio Dubón or Jaylin Davis in the lineup. Those moves proved to be instrumental in the Giants' comeback, as Slater and Solano had key performances in the win.Johnny Cueto started on the mound for the Giants, and he wasn't particularly sharp. He issued three walks and allowed four hits, and he wasn't able to escape the 4th inning. Shaun Anderson allowed a three-run home after Cueto departed in the 4th, but Tyler Anderson tossed 3.2 scoreless innings in relief after that. Tyler Rogers pitched a scoreless top of the 9th against the heart of the Padres lineup before Yastrzemski hit his walkoff shot in the bottom of the inning. It was Yastrzemski's second home run of the game. Left fielder Alex Dickerson also hit a triple and a home run earlier, and he drew a key walk in the 8th inning that helped set up the game-tying home run by Solano.The Giants will get reinforcements today, as first baseman Brandon Belt and third baseman Evan Longoria are expected to be activated from the injured list. McCarthy will likely be sent back to the alternate site, and the Giants must take someone else off the active roster as well. Additionally, according to The Athletic's Andrew Baggarly, those around the Giants organization expect top catching prospect Joey Bart to be added to the major league roster in the near future, possibly as soon as Friday. The additions of Bart, Belt, and Longoria could give the Giants lineup a real boost, when paired with upstart performers like Yastrzemski, Dickerson, Solano, Slater, and Wilmer Flores.cbdMDOur friends at cbdMD have an amazing duo that can help you relax, regroup, and recharge when life gets chaotic. And to make it even easier cbdMD is offering all our listeners 25% OFF your next order when you use the promo code LOCKED ON MLB at checkout. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's Locked On Giants podcast, host Ben Kaspick talks about the Giants' unlikely series split against the Dodgers in Los Angeles. After losing the first two games by a combined score of 17-2, the Giants were looking like a team that was already unraveling. But against two lefty starters on Saturday and Sunday, the Giants were able to put out a more competitive lineup that was heavy on right-handed hitters. Despite all the criticism this team has taken from pundits and fans, the righty lineup is competitive, and the Giants' pitching proved to be instrumental in two big wins against the Dodgers.On Saturday, Logan Webb made is season debut and pitched great. He was filling up the strike zone with all of his pitches, and he proved to be tough on Dodgers hitters. The Giants' offense put consistent pressure on lefty Alex Wood, and they were able to jump ahead to a 5-1 lead in the early innings. This got a bit dicey for the Giants in the late innings. Donovan Solano committed a two-out error that directly led to two runs, and Trevor Gott allowed a leadoff home run to Will Smith in the bottom of the 9th, but the Giants held on for a 5-4 victory. It was their first of the year and the first for new manager Gabe Kapler in a Giants uniform.On Sunday, a nationally televised ESPN game, the Giants again put consistent pressure on left-handed starter Julio Urias. They weren't able to put too many runs on the board though, and it was a tight game throughout. Starting pitcher Drew Smyly pitched well through 3.1 innings, mixing in a mid-90s fastball, a big curveball, and a cutter. All three pitches were competitive and kept the Dodgers in check. He got into and out of trouble in a long third inning. Shaun Anderson looked dominant again in relief (as he did on Saturday), and the rest of the Giants' bullpen again held tough against a potent Dodgers lineup. Mauricio Dubón and Donovan Solano delivered clutch two-out hits, which ultimately gave the Giants a 3-1 lead that would be the final score. Trevor Gott earned his second save in as many days, pitching through a leadoff double and a 3-1 count on the next hitter. He retired Mookie Betts on a fly ball and blew a fastball past Max Muncy to finish out the game.Next the Giants come home for a six-game homestand against the Padres and Rangers. All eyes, however, are on the situation with the Miami Marlins, who have had an outbreak of Covid-19 on their team. Fourteen players and coaches have reportedly tested positive in the last two days. Their game against the Orioles and the Yankees-Phillies game (the Marlins were in Philadelphia when the outbreak occurred) have been postponed.cbdMDOur friends at cbdMD have an amazing duo that can help you relax, regroup, and recharge when life gets chaotic. And to make it even easier cbdMD is offering all our listeners 25% OFF your next order when you use the promo code LOCKED ON MLB at checkout.Rock AutoAmazing selection. Reliably low prices. All the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today on the show we are very lucky to be joined by Chris Umbel and Shaun Anderson from Pivotal to talk about app transformation and modernization! Our guests help companies to update their systems and move into more up-to-date setups through the Swift methodology and our conversation focusses on this journey from legacy code to a more manageable solution. We lay the groundwork for the conversation, defining a few of the key terms and concerns that arise for typical clients and then Shaun and Chris share a bit about their approach to moving things forward. From there, we move into the Swift methodology and how it plays out on a project before considering the benefits of further modernization that can occur after the initial project. Chris and Shaun share their thoughts on measuring success, advantages of their system and how to avoid roll back towards legacy code. For all this and more, join us on The Podlets Podcast, today! Follow us: https://twitter.com/thepodlets Website: https://thepodlets.io Feeback: info@thepodlets.io https://github.com/vmware-tanzu/thepodlets/issues Hosts: Carlisia Campos Josh Rosso Duffie Cooley Olive Power Key Points From This Episode: A quick introduction to our two guests and their roles at Pivotal. Differentiating between application organization and application transformation. Defining legacy and the important characteristics of technical debt and pain. The two-pronged approach at Pivotal; focusing on apps and the platform. The process of helping companies through app transformation and what it looks like. Overlap between the Java and .NET worlds; lessons to be applied to both. Breaking down the Swift methodology and how it is being used in app transformation. Incremental releases and slow modernization to avoid roll back to legacy systems. The advantages that the Swift methodology offers a new team. Possibilities of further modernization and transformation after a successful implementation. Measuring success in modernization projects in an organization using initial objectives. Quotes: “App transformation, to me, is the bucket of things that you need to do to move your product down the line.” — Shaun Anderson [0:04:54] “The pioneering teams set a lot of the guidelines for how the following teams can be doing their modernization work and it just keeps rolling down the track that way.” — Shaun Anderson [0:17:26] “Swift is a series of exercises that we use to go from a business problem into what we call a notional architecture for an application.” — Chris Umbel [0:24:16] “I think what's interesting about a lot of large organizations is that they've been so used to doing big bang releases in general. This goes from software to even process changes in their organizations.” — Chris Umbel [0:30:58] Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode: Chris Umbel — https://github.com/chrisumbel Shaun Anderson — https://www.crunchbase.com/person/shaun-anderson Pivotal — https://pivotal.io/ VMware — https://www.vmware.com/ Michael Feathers — https://michaelfeathers.silvrback.com/ Steeltoe — https://steeltoe.io/ Alberto Brandolini — https://leanpub.com/u/ziobrando Swiftbird — https://www.swiftbird.us/ EventStorming — https://www.eventstorming.com/book/ Stephen Hawking — http://www.hawking.org.uk/ Istio — https://istio.io/ Stateful and Stateless Workload Episode — https://thepodlets.io/episodes/009-stateful-and-stateless/ Pivotal Presentation on Application Transformation: https://content.pivotal.io/slides/application-transformation-workshop Transcript: EPISODE 19 [INTRODUCTION] [0:00:08.7] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to The Podlets Podcast, a weekly show that explores Cloud Native one buzzword at a time. Each week, experts in the field will discuss and contrast distributed systems concepts, practices, tradeoffs and lessons learned to help you on your cloud native journey. This space moves fast and we shouldn’t reinvent the wheel. If you’re an engineer, operator or technically minded decision maker, this podcast is for you. [EPISODE] [0:00:41.0] CC: Hi, everybody. Welcome back to The Podlets. Today, we have an exciting show. It's myself on, Carlisia Campos. We have our usual guest hosts, Duffie Cooley, Olive Power and Josh Rosso. We also have two special guests, Chris Umbel. Did I say that right, Chris? [0:01:03.3] CU: Close enough. [0:01:03.9] CC: I should have checked before. [0:01:05.7] CU: Umbel is good. [0:01:07.1] CC: Umbel. Yeah. I'm not even the native English speaker, so you have to bear with me. Shaun Anderson. Hi. [0:01:15.6] SA: You said my name perfectly. Thank you. [0:01:18.5] CC: Yours is more standard American. Let's see, the topic of today is application modernization. Oh, I just found out word I cannot pronounce. That's my non-pronounceable words list. Also known as application transformation, I think those two terms correctly used alternatively? The experts in the house should say something. [0:01:43.8] CU: Yeah. I don't know that I would necessarily say that they're interchangeable. They're used interchangeably, I think by the general population though. [0:01:53.0] CC: Okay. We're going to definitely dig into that, how it does it not make sense to use them interchangeably, because just by the meaning, I would think so, but I'm also not in that world day-to-day and that Shaun and Chris are. By the way, please give us a brief introduction the two of you. Why don't you go first, Chris? [0:02:14.1] CU: Sure. I am Chris Umbel. I believe it was probably actually pronounced Umbel in Germany, but I go with Umbel. My title this week is the – I think .NET App Transformation Journey Lead. Even though I focus on .NET modernization, it doesn't end there. Touch a little bit of everything with Pivotal. [0:02:34.2] SA: I'm Shaun Anderson and I share the same title of the week as Chris, except for where you say .NET, I would say Java. In general, we play the same role and have slightly different focuses, but there's a lot of overlap. [0:02:48.5] CU: We get along, despite the .NET and Java thing. [0:02:50.9] SA: Usually. [0:02:51.8] CC: You both are coming from Pivotal, yeah? As most people should know, but I'm sure now everybody knows, Pivotal was just recently as of these date, which is what we are? End of January. This episode is going to be a while to release, but Pivotal was just acquired by VMware. Here we are. [0:03:10.2] SA: It's good to be here. [0:03:11.4] CC: All right. Somebody, one of you, may be let's say Chris, because you've brought this up, how this application organization differs from application transformation? Because I think we need to lay the ground and lay the definitions before we can go off and talk about things and sound experts and make sure that everybody can follow us. [0:03:33.9] CU: Sure. I think you might even get different definitions, even from within our own practice. I'll at least lay it out as I see it. I think it's probably consistent with how Shaun's going to see it as well, but it's what we tell customers anyway. At the end of the day, there are – app transformation is the larger [inaudible] bucket. That's going to include, say just the re-hosting of applications, taking applications from point A to some new point B, without necessarily improving the state of the application itself. We'd say that that's not necessarily an exercise in paying down technical debt, it's just making some change to an application or its environment. Then on the modernization side, that's when things start to get potentially a little more architectural. That's when the focus becomes paying down technical debt and really improving the application itself, usually from an architectural point of view and things start to look maybe a little bit more like rewrites at that point. [0:04:31.8] DC: Would you say that the transformation is more in-line with re-platforming, those of you that might think about it? [0:04:36.8] CU: We'd say that app transformation might include re-platforming and also the modernization. What do you think of that, Shaun? [0:04:43.0] SA: I would say transformation is not just the re-platforming, re-hosting and modernization, but also the practice to figure out which should happen as well. There's a little bit more meta in there. Typically, app transformation to me is the bucket of things that you need to do to move your product down the line. [0:05:04.2] CC: Very cool. I have two questions before we start really digging to the show, is still to lay the ground for everyone. My next question will be are we talking about modernizing and transforming apps, so they go to the clouds? Or is there a certain cut-off that we start thinking, “Oh, we need to – things get done differently for them to be called native.” Is there a differentiation, or is this one is the same as the other, like the process will be the same either way? [0:05:38.6] CU: Yeah, there's definitely a distinction. The re-platforming bucket, that re-hosting bucket of things is where your target state, at least for us coming out of Pivotal, we had definitely a product focus, where we're probably only going to be doing work if it intersects with our product, right? We're going to be doing both re-platforming targeted, say typically at a cloud environment, usually Cloud Foundry or something to that effect. Then modernization, while we're usually doing that with customers who have been running our platform, there's nothing to say that you necessarily need a cloud, or any cloud to do modernization. We tend to based on who we work for, but you could say that those disciplines and practices really are agnostic to where things run. [0:06:26.7] CC: Sorry, I was muted. I wanted to ask Shaun if you wanted to add to that. Do you have the same view? [0:06:33.1] SA: Yeah. I have the same view. I think part of what makes our process unique that way is we're not necessarily trying to target a platform for deployment, when we're going through the modernization part anyway. We're really looking at how can we design this application to be the best application it can be. It just so happens that that tends to be more 12-factor compliant that is very cloud compatible, but it's not necessarily the way that we start trying to aim for a particular platform. [0:07:02.8] CC: All right. If everybody allows me, after this next question, I'll let other hosts speak too. Sorry for monopolizing, but I'm so excited about this topic. Again, in the spirit of understanding what we're talking about, what do you define as legacy? Because that's what we're talking about, right? We’re definitely talking about a move up, move forwards. We're not talking about regression and we're not talking about scaling down. We're talking about moving up to a modern technology stack. That means, that implies we're talking about something that's legacy. What is legacy? Is it contextual? Do we have a hard definition? Is there a best practice to follow? Is there something public people can look at? Okay, if my app, or system fits this recipe then it’s considered legacy, like a diagnosis that has a consensus. [0:07:58.0] CU: I can certainly tell you how you can't necessarily define legacy. One of the ways is by the year that it was written. You can certainly say that there are certainly shops who are writing legacy code today. They're still writing legacy code. As soon as they're done with a project, it's instantly legacy. There's people that are trying to define, like another Michael Feathers definition, which is I think any application that doesn't have tests, I don't know that that fits what – our practice necessarily sees legacy as. Basically, anything that's occurred a significant amount of technical debt, regardless of when the application was written or conceived fits into that legacy bucket. Really, our work isn't necessarily as concerned about whether something's legacy or not as much as is there pain that we can solve with our practice? Like I said, we've modernized things that were in for all intents and purposes, quite modern in terms of the year they were written. [0:08:53.3] SA: Yeah. I would double down on the pain. Legacy to us often is something that was written as a prototype a year ago. Now it's ready to prove itself. It's going to be scaled up, but it wasn't built with scale in mind, or something like that. Even though it may be the latest technology, it just wasn't built for the load, for example. Sometimes legacy can be – the pain is we have applications on a mainframe and we can't find Cobol developers and we're leasing a giant mainframe and it's costing a lot of money, right? There's different flavors of pain. It also could be something as simple as a data center move. Something like that, where we've got all of our applications running on Iron and we need to go to a virtual data center somewhere, whether it's cloud or on-prem. Each one of those to us is legacy. It's all about the pain. [0:09:47.4] CU: I think is miserable as that might sound, that's really where it starts and is listening to that pain and hearing directly from customers what that pain is. Sounds terrible when you think about it that you're always in search of pain, but that isn't indeed what we do and try to alleviate that in some way. That pain is what dictates the solution that you come up with, because there are certain kinds of pain that aren't going to be solved with say, modernization approach, a more a platformed approach even. You have to listen and make sure that you're applying the right medicine to the right pain. [0:10:24.7] OP: Seems like an interesting thing bringing what you said, Chris, and then what you said earlier, Shaun. Shaun you had mentioned the target platform doesn't necessarily matter, at least upfront. Then Chris, you had implied bringing the right thing in to solve the pain, or to help remedy the pain to some degree. I think what's interesting may be about the perspectives for those on this call and you too is a lot of times our entry points are a lot more focused with infrastructure and platform teams, where they have these objectives to solve, like cost and ability to scale and so on and so forth. It seems like your entry point, at least historically is maybe a little bit more focused on finding pain points on more of the app side of the house. I'm wondering if that's a fair assessment, or if you could speak to how you find opportunities and what you're really targeting. [0:11:10.6] SA: I would say that's a fair assessment from the perspective of our services team. We're mainly app-focused, but it's almost there's a two-pronged approach, where there's platform pain and application pain. What we've seen is often solving one without the other is not a great solution, right? I think that's where it's challenging, because there's so much to know, right? It's hard to find one team or one person who can point out the pain on both sides. It just depends on often, how the customer approaches us. If they are saying something like, “We’re a credit card company and we're getting our butts kicked by this other company, because they can do biometrics and we can't yet, because of the limitations of our application.” Then we would approach it from the app-first perspective. If it's another pain point, where our operations, day two operations is really suffering, we can't scale, where we have issues that the platform is really good at solving, then we may start there. It always tends to merge together in the end. [0:12:16.4] CU: You might be surprised how much variety there is in terms of the drivers for people coming to us. There are a lot of cases where the work came to us by way of the platform work that we've done. It started with our sister team who focuses on the platform side of things. They solve the infrastructure problems ahead of us and then we close things out on the application side. We if our account teams and our organization is really listening to each individual customer that you'll find that there – that the pain is drastically different, right? There are some cases where the driver is cost and that's an easy one to understand. There are also drivers that are usually like a date, such as this data center goes dark on this date and I have to do something about it. If I'm not out of that data center, then my apps no longer run. The solution to that is very different than the solution you would have to, "Look, my application is difficult for me to maintain. It takes me forever to ship features. Help me with that." There's two very different solutions to those problems, but each of which are things that come our way. It's just that former probably comes in by way of our platform team. [0:13:31.1] DC: Yeah, that’s an interesting space to operate in in the application transformation and stuff. I've seen entities within some of the larger companies that represent this field as well. Sometimes that's called production engineering or there are a few other examples of this that I'm aware of. I'm curious how you see that happening within larger companies. Do you find that there is a particular size entity that is actually striving to do this work with the tools that they have internally, or do you find that typically, most companies are just need something like an application transformation so you can come in and help them figure out this part of it out? [0:14:09.9] SA: We've seen a wide variety, I think. One of them is maybe a company really has a commitment to get to the cloud and they get a platform and then they start putting some simple apps up, just to learn how to do it. Then they get stuck with, “Okay. Now how do we with trust get some workloads that are running our business on it?” They will often bring us in at that point, because they haven't done it before. Experimenting with something that valuable to them is — usually means that they slow down. There's other times where we've come in to modernize applications, whether it's a particular business unit for example, that may have been trying to get off the mainframe for the last two years. They’re smart people, but they get stuck again, because they haven't figured out how to do it. What often happens and Chris can talk about some examples of this is once we help them figure out how to modernize, or the recipes to follow to start getting their systems systematically on to the platform and modernize, that they tend to like forming a competency area around it, where they'll start to staff it with the people who are really interested and they take over where we started from. [0:15:27.9] CU: There might be a little bit of bias to that response, in that typically, in order to even get in the door with us, you're probably a Fortune 100, or at least a 500, or government, or something to that effect. We're going to be seeing people that one, have a mainframe to begin with. Two, would have say, capacity to fund say a dedicated transformation team, or to build a unit around that. You could say that the smaller an organization gets, maybe the easier it is to just have the entire organization just write software the modern way to begin with. At least at the large side, we do tend to see people try to build a – they'll use different names for it. Try to have a dedicated center of excellence or practice around modernization. Our hope is to help them build that and hopefully, put them in a position that that can eventually disappear, because eventually, you should no longer need that as a separate discipline. [0:16:26.0] JR: I think that's an interesting point. For me, I argue that you do need it going forward, because of the cognitive overhead between understanding how your application is going to thrive on today's complex infrastructure models and understanding how to write code that works. I think that one person that has all of that in their head all the time is a little too much, a little too far to go sometimes. [0:16:52.0] CU: That's probably true. When you consider the size the portfolios and the size of the backlog for modernization that people have, I mean, people are going to be busy on that for a very long time anyway. It's either — even if it is finite, it still has a very long life span at a minimum. [0:17:10.7] SA: At a certain point, it becomes like painting the Golden Gate Bridge. As soon as you finish, you have to start again, because of technology changes, or business needs and that thing. It's probably a very dynamic organization, but there's a lot of overlap. The pioneering teams set a lot of the guidelines for how the following teams can be doing their modernization work and it just keeps rolling down the track that way. It may be that people are busy modernizing applications off of WebLogic, or WebSphere, and it takes a two years or more to get that completed for this enterprise. It was 20, 50 different projects. To them, it was brand-new each time, which is cool actually to come into that. [0:17:56.3] JR: I'm curious, I definitely love hear it from Olive. I have one more question before I pass it out and I think we’d love to hear your thoughts on all of this. The question I have is when you're going through your day-to-day working on .NET and Java applications and helping people figure out how to go about modernizing them, what we've talked about so far is that represents some of the deeper architectural issues and stuff. You've already mentioned 12 factor after and being able to move, or thinking about the way that you frame the application as far as inputs of those things that it takes to configure, or to think with the lifecycle of those things. Are there some other common patterns that you see across the two practices, Java and .NET, that you think are just concrete examples of stuff that people should take away maybe from this episode, that they could look at their app – and they’re trying to get ahead of the game a little bit? [0:18:46.3] SA: I would say a big part of the commonality that Chris and I both work on a lot is we have a methodology called the SWIFT methodology that we use to help discover how the applications really want to behave, define a notional architecture that is again, agnostic of the implementation details. We’ll often come in with a the same process and I don't need to be a .NET expert and a .NET shop to figure out how the system really wants to be designed, how you want to break things into microservices and then the implementation becomes where those details are. Chris and I both collaborate on a lot of that work. It makes you feel a little bit better about the output when you know that the technology isn't as important. You get to actually pick which technology fits the solution best, as opposed to starting with the technology and letting a solution form around it, if that makes sense. [0:19:42.4] CU: Yeah. I'd say that interesting thing is just how difficult it is while we're going through the SWIFT process with customers, to get them to not get terribly attached to the nouns of the technology and the solution. They've usually gone in where it's not just a matter of the language, but they have something picked in their head already for data storage, for messaging, etc., and they're deeply attached to some of these decisions, deeply and emotionally attached to them. Fundamentally, when we're designing a notional architecture as we call it, really you should be making decisions on what nouns you're going to pick based on that architecture to use the tools that fit that. That's generally a bit of a process the customers have to go through. It's difficult for them to do that, because the more technical their stakeholders tend to be, often the more attached they are to the individual technology choices and breaking that is the principal role for us. [0:20:37.4] OP: Is there any help, or any investment, or any coordination with those vendors, or the purveyors of the technologies that perhaps legacy applications are, or indeed the platforms they're running on, is there any help on that side from those vendors to help with application transformation, or making those applications better? Or do organizations have to rely on a completely independent, so the team like you guys to come in and help them with that? Do you understand my point? Is there any internal – like you mentioned WebLogic, WebSphere, do the purveyors of those platforms try and drive the transformation from within there? Or is it organizations who are running those apps have to rely on independent companies like you, or like us to help them with that? [0:21:26.2] SA: I think some of it depends on what the goal of the modernization is. If it's something like, we no longer want to pay Oracle licensing fees, then of course, obviously they – WebLogic teams aren't going to be happy to help. That's not always the case. Sometimes it's a case where we may have a lot of WebLogic. It's working fine, but we just don't like where it's deployed and we'd like to containerize it, move it to Kubernetes or something like that. In that case, they're more willing to help. At least in my experience, I've found that the technology vendors are rightfully focused just on upgrading things from their perspective and they want to own the world, right? WebLogic will say, “Hey, we can do everything. We have clustering. We have messaging. We've got good access to data stores.” It's hard to find a technology vendor that has that broader vision, or the discipline to not try to fit their solutions into the problem, when maybe they're not the best fit. [0:22:30.8] CU: I think it's a broad generalization, but specifically on the Java side it seems that at least with app server vendors, the status quo is usually serving them quite well. Quite often, we’re adversary – a bit of an adversarial relationship with them on occasion. I could certainly say that within the .NET space, we've worked a relatively collaboratively with Microsoft on things like Steeltoe, which is a I wouldn't say it's a springboot analog, but at least a microservice library that helps people achieve 12-factor cloud nativeness. That's something where I guess Microsoft represents both the legacy side, but also the future side and were part of a solution together there. [0:23:19.4] SA: Actually, that's a good point because the other way that we're seeing vendors be involved is in creating operators on Kubernetes side, or Cloud Foundry tiles, something that makes it easy for their system to still be used in the new world. That's definitely helpful as well. [0:23:38.1] CC: Yeah, that's interesting. [0:23:39.7] JR: Recently, myself me people on my team went through a training from both Shaun and Chris, interestingly enough in Colorado about this thing called the SWIFT methodology. I know it's a really important methodology to how you approach some of the application transformation-like engagements. Could you two give us a high-level overview of what that methodology is? [0:24:02.3] SA: I want to hear Chris go through it, since I always answer that question first. [0:24:09.0] CU: Sure. I figured since you were the inventor, you might want to go with it Shaun, but I'll give it a stab anyway. Swift is a series of exercises that we use to go from a business problem into what we call a notional architecture for an application. The one thing that you'll hear Shaun say all the time that I think is pretty apt, which is we're trying to understand how the application wants to behave. This is a very analog process, especially at the beginning. It's one where we get people who can speak about the business problem behind an application and the business processes behind an application. We get them into a room, a relatively large room typically with a bunch of wall space and we go through a series of exercises with them, where we tease that business process apart. We start with a relatively lightweight version of Alberto Brandolini’s event storing method, where we map out with the subject matter experts, what all of the business events that occur in a system are. That is a non-technical exercise, a completely non-technical exercise. As a matter of fact, all of this uses sticky notes and arts and crafts. After we've gone through that process, we transition into Boris diagram, which is an exercise of Shaun's design that we take the domains that we've, or at least service candidates that we've extrapolated from that event storming and start to draw out a notional architecture. Like an 80% idea of what we think the architecture is going to look like. We're going to do this for slices of – thin slices of that business problem. At that point, it starts to become something that a software developer might be interested in. We have an exercise called Snappy that generally occurs concurrently, which translates that message flow, Boris diagram thing into something that's at least a little bit closer to what a developer could act upon. Again, these are sticky note and analog exercises that generally go on for about a week or so, things that we do interactively with customers to try to get a purely non-technical way, at least at first, so that we can understand that problem and tell you what an architecture is that you can then act on. We try to position this as a customer. You already have all of the answers here. What we're going to do as facilitators of these is try to pull those out of your head. You just don't know how to get to the truth, but you already know that truth and we're going to design this architecture together. How did I do, Shaun? [0:26:44.7] SA: I couldn't have said it better myself. I would say one of the interest things about this process is the reason why it was developed the way it was is because in the world of technology and especially engineers, I definitely seen that you have two modes of thought when you come from the business world to the to the technical world. Often, engineers will approach a problem in a very different way and a very focused, blindered way than business folks. Ultimately, what we try to think of is that the purpose for the software is to enable the business to run well. In order to do that, you really need to understand at least at a high-level, what the heck is the business doing? Surprisingly and almost consistently, the engineering team doing the work is separated from the business team enough that it's like playing the telephone game, right? Where the business folks say, “Well, I told them to do this.” The technical team is like, “Oh, awesome. Well then, we're going to use all this amazing technology and build something that really doesn't support you.” This process really brings everybody together to discover how the system really wants to behave. Also as a side effect, you get everybody agreeing that yes, that is the way it's supposed to be. It's exciting to see teams come together that actually never even work together. You see the light bulbs go on and say, “Oh, that's why you do that.” The end result is in a week, we can go from nobody really knows each other, or quite understands the system as a whole, to we have a backlog of work that we can prioritize based on the learnings that we have, and feel pretty comfortable that the end result is going to be pretty close to how we want to get there. Then the biggest challenge is defining how do we get from point A to point B. That's part of that layering of the Swift method is knowing when to ask those questions. [0:28:43.0] JR: A micro follow-up and then I'll keep my mouth shut for a little bit. Is there a place that people could go online to read about this methodology, or just get some ideas of what you just described? [0:28:52.7] SA: Yeah. You can go to swiftbird.us. That has a high-level overview of more the public facing of how the methodology works. Then there's also internal resources that are constantly being developed as well. That's where I would start. [0:29:10.9] CC: That sounds really neat. As always, we are going to have links on the show notes for all of this. I checked out the website for the EventStorming book. There is a resources page there and has a list of a bunch of presentations. Sounds very interesting. I wanted to ask Chris and Shaun, have you ever seen, or heard of a case where a company went through the transformation, or modernization process and then they roll back to their legacy system for any reason? [0:29:49.2] SA: That's actually a really good question. It implies that often, the way people think about modernization would be more of a big bang approach, right? Where at a certain point in time, we switch to the new system. If it doesn't work, then we roll back. Part of what we try to do is have incremental releases, where we're actually putting small slices into production where you're not rolling back a whole – from modern back to legacy. It's more of you have a week's worth of work that's going into production that's for one of the thin slices, like Chris mentioned. If that doesn't work where there's something that is unexpected about it, then you're rolling back just a small chunk. You're not really jumping off a cliff for modernization. You're really taking baby steps. If it's a two step forward and one step back, you're still making a lot of really good progress. You're also gaining confidence as you go that in the end in two years, you're going to have a completely shiny new modern system and you're comfortable with it, because you're getting there an inch of the time, as opposed to taking a big leap. [0:30:58.8] CU: I think what's interesting about a lot of large organizations is that they've been so used to doing big bang releases in general. This goes from software to even process changes in their organizations. They’ve become so used to that that it often doesn't even cross their mind that it's possible to do something incrementally. We really do often times have to get spend time getting buy-in from them on that approach. You'd be surprised that even in industries that you’d think would be fantastic with managing risk, when you look at how they actually deal with deployment of software and the rolling out of software, they’re oftentimes taking approaches that maximize their risk. There's no way to make something riskier by doing a big bang. Yeah, as Shaun mentioned, the specifics of the swift are to find a way, so that you can understand where and get a roadmap for how to carve out incremental slices, so that you can strangle a large monolithic system slowly over time. That's something that's pretty powerful. Once someone gets bought in on that, they absolutely see the value, because they're minimizing risk. They're making small changes. They're easy to roll back one at a time. You might see people who would stop somewhere along the way, and we wouldn't necessarily say that that's a problem, right? Just like not every app needs to be modernized, maybe there's portions of systems that could stay where they are. Is that a bad thing? I wouldn't necessarily say that it is. Maybe that's the way that – the best way for that organization. [0:32:35.9] DC: We've bumped into this idea now a couple of different times and I think that both Chris and Shaun have brought this up. It's a little prelude to a show that we are planning on doing. One of the operable quotes from that show is the greatest enemy of knowledge is not the ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. It's a quote by Stephen Hawking. It speaks exactly to that, right? When you come to a problem with a solution in your mind that is frequently difficult to understand the problem on its merit, right? It’s really interesting seeing that crop up again in this show. [0:33:08.6] CU: I think even oftentimes, the advantage of a very discovery-oriented method, such as Swift is that it allows you to start from scratch with a problem set with people maybe that you aren't familiar with and don't have some of that baggage and can ask the dumb questions to get to some of the real answers. It's another phrase that I know Shaun likes to use is that our roles is facilitator to this method are to ask dumb questions. I mean, you just can't put enough value on that, right? The only way that you're going to break that established thinking is by asking questions at the root. [0:33:43.7] OP: One question, actually there was something recently that happened in the Kubernetes community, which I thought was pretty interesting and I'd like to get your thoughts on it, which is that Istio, which is a project that operates as a service mesh, I’m sure you all are familiar with it, has recently decided to unmodernize itself in a way. It was originally developed as a set of microservices. They have had no end of difficulty in getting in optimizing the different interactions between those services and the nodes. Then recently, they decided this might be a good example of when to monolith, versus when to microservice. I'm curious what your thoughts are on that, or if you have familiarity with it. [0:34:23.0] CU: What's actually quite – I'm not going to necessarily speak too much to this. Time will tell as to if the monolithing that they're doing at the moment is appropriate or not. Quite often, the starting point for us isn't necessarily a monolith. What it is is a proposed architecture coming from a customer that they're proud of, that this is my microservice design. You'll see a simple system with maybe hundreds of nano-services. The surprise that they have is that the recommendation from us coming out of our Swift sessions is that actually, you're overthinking this. We're going to take that idea that you have any way and maybe shrink that down and to save tens of services, or just a handful of services. I think one of the mistakes that people make within enterprises, or on microservices at the moment is to say, “Well, that's not a microcservice. It’s too big.” Well, how big or how small dictates a microservice, right? Oftentimes, we at least conceptually are taking and combining services based on the customers architecture very common. [0:35:28.3] SA: Monoliths aren't necessarily bad. I mean, people use them almost as a pejorative, “Oh, you have a monolith.” In our world it's like, well monoliths are bad when they're bad. If they're not bad, then that's great. The corollary to that is micro-servicing for the sake of micro-servicing isn't necessarily a good thing either. When we go through the Boris exercise, really what we're doing is we're showing how domain-based, or capabilities relate to each other. That happens to map really well in our opinion to first, cut microservices, right? You may have an order service, or a customer service that manages some of that. Just because we map capabilities and how they relate to each other, it doesn't mean the implementation can't even be as a single monolith, but componentized inside it, right? That's part of what we try really hard to do is avoid the religion of monolith versus microservices, or even having to spend a lot of time trying to define what a microservice is to you. It's really more of well, a system wants to behave this way. Now, surprise, you just did domain-driven design and mapped out some good 12-factor compliant microservices should you choose to build it that way, but there's other constraints that always apply at that point. [0:36:47.1] OP: Is there more traction in organizations implementing this methodology on a net new business, rather than current running businesses or applications? Is there are situations more so that you have seen where a new project, or a new functionality within a business starts to drive and implement this methodology and then it creeps through the other lines of business within the organization, because that first one was successful? [0:37:14.8] CU: I'd say that based on the nature of who our customers are as an app transformation practice, based on who those customers are and what their problems are, we're generally used to having a starting point of a process, or software that exists already. There's nothing at all to mandate that it has to be that way. As a matter of fact, with folks from our labs organization, we've used these methods in what you could probably call greener fields. At the end of the day when you have a process, or even a candidate process, something that doesn't exist yet, as long as you can get those ideas onto sticky notes and onto a wall, this is a very valid way of getting – turning ideas into an architecture and an architecture into software. [0:37:59.4] SA: We've seen that happen in practice a couple times, where maybe a piece of the methodology was used, like EventStorming just to get a feel for how the business wants to behave. Then to rapidly try something out in maybe more of a evolutionary architecture approach, MVP approach to let's just build something from a user perspective just to solve this problem and then try it out. If it starts to catch hold, then iterate back and now drill into it a little bit more and say, “All right. Now we know this is going to work.” We're modernizing something that may be two weeks old just because hooray, we proved it's valuable. We didn't necessarily have to spend as much upfront time on designing that as we would in this system that's already proven itself to be of business value. [0:38:49.2] OP: This might be a bit of a broad question, but what defines success of projects like this? I mean, we mentioned earlier about cost and maybe some of the drivers are to move off certain mainframes and things like that. If you're undergoing an application transformation, it seems to me like it's an ongoing thing. How do enterprises try to evaluate that return on investment? How does it relate to success criteria? I mean, faster release times, etc., potentially might be one, but how was that typically evaluated and somebody internally saying, “Look, we are running a successful project.” [0:39:24.4] SA: I think part of what we tried to do upfront is identify what the objectives are for a particular engagement. Often, those objectives start out with one thing, right? It's too costly to keep paying IBM or Oracle for WebLogic, or WebSphere. As we go through and talk through what types of things that we can solve, those objectives get added to, right? It may be the first thing, our primary objective is we need to start moving workloads off of the mainframe, or workloads off of WebLogic, or WebSphere, or something like that. There's other objectives that are part of this too, which can include things as interesting as developer happiness, right? They have a large team of a 150 developers that are really just getting sick of doing the same old thing and having new technology. That's actually a success criteria maybe down the road a little bit, but it's more of a nice to have. In a long-winded answer of saying, when we start these and when we incept these projects, we usually start out with let's talk through what our objectives are and how we measure success, those key results for those objectives. As we're iterating through, we keep measuring ourselves against those. Sometimes the objectives change over time, which is fine because you learn more as you're going through it. Part of that incremental iterative process is measuring yourself along the way, as opposed to waiting until the end. [0:40:52.0] CC: Yeah, makes sense. I guess these projects are as you say, are continuous and constantly self-adjusting and self-analyzing to re-evaluate success criteria to go along. Yeah, so that's interesting. [0:41:05.1] SA: One other interesting note though that personally we like to measure ourselves when we see one project is moving along and if the customers start to form other projects that are similar, then we know, “Okay, great. It's taking hold.” Now other teams are starting to do the same thing. We've become the cool kids and people want to be like us. The only reason it happens for that is when you're able to show success, right? Then other teams want to be able to replicate that. [0:41:32.9] CU: The customers OKRs, oftentimes they can be a little bit easier to understand. Sometimes they're not. Typically, they involve time or money, where I'm trying to take release times from X to Y, or decrease my spend on X to Y. The way that we I think measure ourselves as a team is around how clean do we leave the campsite when we're done. We want the customers to be able to run with this and to continue to do this work and to be experts. As much as we'd love to take money from someone forever, we have a lot of people to help, right? Our goal is to help to build that practice and center of excellence and expertise within an organization, so that as their goals or ideas change, they have a team to help them with that, so we can ride off into the sunset and go help other customers. [0:42:21.1] CC: We are coming up to the end of the episode, unfortunately, because this has been such a great conversation. It turned out to be a more of an interview style, which was great. It was great getting the chance to pick your brains, Chris and Shaun. Going along with the interview format, I like to ask you, is there any question that wasn't asked, but you wish was asked? The intent here is to illuminates what this process for us and for people who are listening, especially people who they might be in pain, but they might be thinking this is just normal. [0:42:58.4] CU: That's an interesting one. I guess to some degree, that pain is unfortunately normal. That's just unfortunate. Our role is to help solve that. I think the complacency is the absolute worst thing in an organization. If there is pain, rather than saying that the solution won't work here, let’s start to talk about solutions to that. We've seen customers of all shapes and sizes. No matter how large, or cumbersome they might be, we've seen a lot of big organizations make great progress. If your organization's in pain, you can use them as an example. There is light at the end of the tunnel. [0:43:34.3] SA: It's usually not a train. [0:43:35.8] CU: Right. Usually not. [0:43:39.2] SA: Other than that, I think you asked all the questions that we always try to convey to customers of how we do things, what is modernization. There's probably a little bit about re-platforming, doing the bare minimum to get something onto to the cloud. We didn't talk a lot about that, but it's a little bit less meta, anyway. It's more technical and more recipe-driven as you discover what the workload looks like. It's more about, is it something we can easily do a CF push, or just create a container and move it up to the cloud with minimal changes? There's not conceptually not a lot of complexity. Implementation-wise, there's still a lot of challenges there too. They're not as fun to talk about for me anyway. [0:44:27.7] CC: Maybe that's a good excuse to have some of our colleagues back on here with you. [0:44:30.7] SA: Absolutely. [0:44:32.0] DC: Yeah, in a previous episode we talked about persistence and state of those sorts of things and how they relate to your applications and how when you're thinking about re-platforming and even just where you're planning on putting those applications. For us, that question comes up quite a lot. That's almost zero trying to figure out the state model and those sort of things. [0:44:48.3] CC: That episode was named States in Stateless Apps, I think. We are at the end, unfortunately. It was so great having you both here. Thank you Duffie, Shaun, Chris and I'm going by the order I'm seeing people on my video. Josh and Olive. Until next time. Make sure please to let us know your feedback. Subscribe. Give us a thumbs up. Give us a like. You know the drill. Thank you so much. Glad to be here. Bye, everybody. [0:45:16.0] JR: Bye all. [0:45:16.5] CU: Bye. [END OF EPISODE] [0:45:17.8] ANNOUNCER: Thank you for listening to The Podlets Cloud Native Podcast. Find us on Twitter at https://twitter.com/ThePodlets and on the http://thepodlets.io/ website, where you'll find transcripts and show notes. We'll be back next week. Stay tuned by subscribing. [END]See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Analyzing the state of the Giants' pitching. Shaun Anderson and Tyler Beede have provided promise, but the starters have mostly struggled and figure to get worse if/when Madison Bumgarner is traded. Meanwhile, headlined by Will Smith, the Giants bullpen has been among the best in baseball—and they have depth in the minor leagues. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Analyzing Shaun Anderson's strong start, as well as other relevant game notes from the Giants' 4-2 win over the Padres. Kevin Pillar showed that he can still play against lefties, and Mike Yastrezemski continued to scuffle. Alex Dickerson will probably join the team sooner rather than later. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Analyzing the Giants' 7-3 loss to the Mets in the series finale. Shaun Anderson recovered from a brutal 1st inning to pitch into the 7th, but he probably stayed in one batter too long. The bullpen allowed his leadoff walk to score, and Mark Melancon imploded in the 8th. A struggling Giants outfielder who should be on thin ice is also discussed. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Analyzing the offensive explosion in Baltimore, Shaun Anderson and Jeff Samardzija's strong starts, and who the Giants will take 10th overall as the MLB Draft gets underway tonight. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Analyzing the Giants' thrilling 4-3 walk-off win against the Braves. Their three-run, 9th-inning rally capped by Joe Panik is discussed at length, as is the second consecutive strong start by Shaun Anderson. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Breaking down Shaun Anderson's solid debut in the Giants' 4-3 win over the Blue Jays. The fact that the team has a clearly discernible plan is also discussed.Music Credit:Released by Tasty RecordsArtist: TheFatRatSong: XenogenesisYouTube: https://youtu.be/2Ax_EIb1zks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Analyzing the Giants' 7-3 loss to the Blue Jays, and why the fact that the opener didn't work in one instance does not mean it was a bad idea. Shaun Anderson's promotion to the big leagues is also discussed.Music Credit:Released by Tasty RecordsArtist: TheFatRatSong: XenogenesisYouTube: https://youtu.be/2Ax_EIb1zks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices