Podcast appearances and mentions of Joel Tudor

In today's episode Joel Tudor details his time at P.Diddy's parties and Chas explains the phenomena of going soft with age while Flick twists an ovary thanks to a thorough jackhammering, Raimana learns why the caged bird sings, and the boys pinpoint the exact age when sharing a room on a surf trip become inappropriate. Plus Barrel or Nah?! Enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of the Swell Season Surf Podcast, host Tyler Breuer and co-host Paul Colbert engage in a profound discussion with Ken Lewis, a key figure in San Diego's surf, skate, and music scene. Ken Lewis has been described as a pillar in the San Diego surf/skate/music community. Ken shares his life story, from growing up as the son of a spear fisherman in La Jolla Cove to becoming a skate shop owner, Tavarua boatman, and a 30-year industry veteran. He reflects on mentorships from legends like Bird Huffman and Skip Fry, overcoming disenchantment with surfing through skateboarding, and his current surfboard rack business. He shares with us some classic stories including surfing with icons like Joel Tudor and Derek Ho, near-drowning experiences, and a transformative battle with having a stroke and managing his depression. Ken emphasizes the importance of supportive surf communities, empathy, and gratitude in his recovery. The conversation also delves into unique surf spots, evolving surfboard designs, and maintaining a balanced perspective on life and happiness. We are so stoked to have Ken on the show and hope you enjoy… To find Ken Lewis you can follow him on Instagram @hanger18  and check out his online shop: www.thesurfboardrack.comThe Swell Season Surf Podcast is recorded by The NewsStand Studio at Rockefeller Center in the heart of Manhattan and is distributed by The Swell Season Surf Radio Network. For more information, you can follow @swellseasonsurfradio on Instagram or go to our website: www.swellseasonsurf.com Music: Artist: NOFXSong: The Separation of Church & SkateAlbum: The War on ErrorismBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/swell-season--3483504/support.

Welcome to the Surf Mastery Podcast, where we delve into the fascinating intersections of life, sports, and the art of mastering the surf. In this episode, our host Michael John Frampton sits down with Matt Parker from Album Surf to discuss the intricacies of surfboard shaping, the evolution of surf culture, and the joys of riding different types of boards.Matt Parker is a seasoned surfer and shaper from Southern California who started crafting surfboards in his garage in 2001. Now, Album Surf is one of the largest surfboard companies, known for its diverse range of high-quality boards. Matt's philosophy on surfboard design emphasizes the harmonious blend of curves and how they interact with the water, aiming to make every board feel like an extension of the surfer's feet and mind. Episode Highlights:The Origins of Album Surf: Matt shares how he started shaping surfboards in his garage in 2001 and grew Album Surf into a renowned company.Philosophy of Surfboard Design: Discussing his unique approach to shaping, Matt explains the importance of creating boards that blend seamlessly with the water.Surfing in Southern California vs. New Zealand: A comparison of surf conditions and the surfing culture in these two iconic locations.The Evolution of Surfboard Variety: Exploring the trend of surfers, including professionals, moving away from high-performance shortboards to experimenting with various types of boards.Educational Insights: Michael and Matt discuss the importance of riding different boards to improve surfing skills and the misconceptions many surfers have about the type of board they should use.Personal Anecdotes and Experiences: Matt and Michael share personal stories about their favorite boards and memorable surfing experiences.Key Quotes:"The surfboard is a constant blending of curves and how they interact with the water, making those curves feel comfortable, like an extension of your feet and your mind." - Matt Parker"Are you actually having fun? That's what it should be about, not just projecting competency and coolness in the lineup." - Matt Parker"It's the best time to be alive as a surfer because you really have more options nowadays than you ever have in the past." - Matt ParkerFollow Matt Parker:Instagram: @albumsurfLinkedin: matt-parker-7877a17Website: albumsurf.comDon't forget to visit our new website for a free PDF download outlining Michael's top five insights from the show, and reach out if you know anyone at YouTube to help resolve access issues!Enjoy the episode and happy surfing!Full Show Transcript:Matt Parker- Welcome back to the Surf Mastery podcast. I am your host, Michael Frampton. Today's guest is Matt Parker from album serf. But before we get into that, a couple of housekeeping items. Firstly, Serf Mastery has a new website, and included on that on the front page is a free PDF download outlining my top five insights from the show and the last eight years or so of focusing on improving my own surfing. Um, so go ahead and download that puppy. Also, does anyone know anyone on YouTube? I have been denied access to my YouTube account and have exhausted all other avenues and have had a dead end. So if anyone knows anyone at YouTube, please reach out. Mike at Serf mastery.com or you can DM me on Instagram as well. Onto the show. Today's guest, like I said, is Matt Parker from album surf. Matt is a surfer from Southern California, and he started shaping surfboards from his garage back in 2001. And now album surf is one of the largest, uh, surfboard companies around. Uh, they specialize in all types of boards. And let me read a little quote from Matt's website, which sort of summarizes the way he thinks about surfboards. This is a quote from Matt. The surfboard is a constant blending of curves and how they interact with the water, making those curves feel comfortable, like an extension of your feet. And your mind is so interesting. There shouldn't be any rules about what a surfboard looks like. I love that quote and you would have seen there's so many pros that when they aren't surfing on tour, they end up on these boards, including one of my favorite surfers of all time, Margo. Yes, one of the best free surfers around. Brendan Marginson is well worth a follow on Instagram as well. He started writing Matt's boards. Anyway, without further ado, I shall fade in my conversation with Matt Parker from album surf. Com two.Matt Parker- How are things? Uh, how are things in New Zealand?Michael Frampton - Are things going swimmingly?Matt Parker- Always there. So you live in the prettiest place on Earth. How could it not?Michael Frampton - Oh, yeah. You're not wrong. Although I have to admit, I do miss California.Matt Parker- Did you have spent time out here before you lived here or just.Michael Frampton - Yeah, I lived in, uh, I lived in Point Dume Malibu for four years. Oh, cool. So I was obviously in a little bit of a bubble surfing Little doom every day, but, uh, you know, the weather, the weather alone in Southern California, I kind of felt like it was a bit monotonous. After four years there, I almost missed winter. But having come back to New Zealand and actually experiencing the four seasons, I take California any day.Matt Parker- Yeah, it's big news. When it rains here. It's like, yeah.Michael Frampton - Yeah, no one can drive in the rain in California.Matt Parker- No. Definitely not, definitely not.Michael Frampton - And then, of course you can't. Well, you're not supposed to go in the water either.Matt Parker- Uh, so. So whereabouts in New Zealand? What part are you at? Like, where do you surf at and all that?Michael Frampton - I'm in a place called Hawkes Bay, which is on the east coast of the North Island. There's nowhere really famous surf wise around here. The surf is pretty average around here, actually. We have a mass. Uh, continental shelf. So the swell comes in with a, uh, just with almost no energy left in it unless it's a certain period that seems to sneak through. Um, so, yeah, around here is not so good for surfing, to be honest. I came back here to, you know, raise the kids and I think, yeah, that sort of thing.Matt Parker- But there's pretty drivable though, right? I mean, you can get. Oh yeah.Michael Frampton - Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's you know if you're willing to drive um then yeah you can get waves, probably get good waves almost every day. Uh, in New Zealand actually, if you're willing to drive and put up with a little bit of weather.Matt Parker- Mhm. Not afraid of a little wind. Right. Find the blowing the right way. Yeah.Michael Frampton - Exactly. Well that's another big thing is I remember in Southern California so many days there's just no wind.Matt Parker- Yeah.Michael Frampton - Where you don't really get that in New Zealand maybe the first two hours of the day there's not much wind, but you'd never get a day where it's glassy until midday, like in Southern California. That's rare here.Matt Parker- Yeah. That's like the prototypical dreamy Southern California fall day where it's kind of glass a little bit offshore in the morning and kind of glassy and nice and sunny and warm all day with fun combo swells. That's kind of the ideal. It's like that a lot. I'm down in San Clemente. It's pretty clean down here, too. We live like a little valley, kind of, uh, that kind of keeps the wind cleaner here. I don't know if it's just protected a little bit from some of the, you know, more beach break spots up in Huntington and Newport, all those spots. But, um.Michael Frampton - Yeah. No, I, I've spent a little bit of time down your way as well. The Surf lowered and I got to interview Archie on my way down there and I spent some time, um, I love surfing Swami's and just that whole Encinitas area. Spent some time down there?Matt Parker- Yeah.Michael Frampton - And, uh, what opened? Part of what I wanted to talk about today was, obviously surfboards. But I remember we interviewed Devon Howard, and so I got to surf with Devon and I was surfing this like it was a Stu Jensen 94. And I would just paddle. I would just paddle right out the back as far as you can at Little Doom and surf it like Sarno, almost just catch the swell and just get long, big sweeping rides. And Devon's like, you should just be on a glider. And I was like, what's a glider? And then so I just, I just went out and bought an 11 foot Josh Hall, and that's pretty much all I surf all of the time.Matt Parker- Even further out. You weren't even like another hundred yards out would catch it even out the back. Yeah. It's amazing.Michael Frampton - Yeah. And then I'm always swapping around boards. But that 11 foot board just taught me so much about surfing. Just the sheer volume and weight and size of the board. Just you have to think about reading the waves so differently and about you know, your the space around you with other people so differently. And then when you finally do jump back on a board, a short board or whatever, I found it so much easier and more fun and easier to sort of be present after having learnt how to surf such a big surfboard. Yo. Have you experienced anything similar with playing around with lots of different boards?Matt Parker- Yeah, I, um, I, obviously I make boards and so I'm always writing something different. You know, most of the time it's rare that I ride the same board two days in a row. Um, and so I'm very used to, like the initial paddle out where, um, I, I can't try too hard, you know what I mean? I kind of have to just. Feel what the board is going to do and just kind of be open to what it feels like once I'm dropping in and just kind of riding the wave. And so it makes me, um, yeah, it's just a good little lesson every time because you can't, you can't force it. And so, uh, you remain a little bit relaxed and not try to do too much, and then you kind of feel it out in every wave is kind of like a you're learning a little bit more about what the board wants to do and what line it wants to take, and trying to figure out where the gas pedal is. And, and, uh, so that's like the discovery part of surfing for me because I surf, I tend to surf the same place every day. And it's a point break down near, uh, lowers and it's kind of a similar wave, but it's kind of a sectional point break that offers some variety. But it's the same place. You know, I'm surfing in the same spot all the time. And so the variety of boards, um, just kind of changes up. Um, it kind of removes expectations sometimes. I think sometimes if you have a board, you've written a ton and you're kind of like, oh, this is the kind of surfing I want to go do. And these are the, you know, these are the turns I'm going to do or whatever. And when you're surfing a little bit more blind to what the board is going to allow you to do, it just kind of, um, keeps you from having expectations. And then you're kind of, uh, you just find fun in different ways and new experiences every time you surf.Michael Frampton - So I think that really good top level surfers are doing that on a much more refined and accurate level because they're always so close to where the wave is breaking. There's so much in the source and they're feeling all those little bumps and nooks and obviously those sorts of boards at that speed are ridiculously sensitive. So if they're not tuned in to that, it's just not going to happen. Whereas you and I are surfing bigger boards a little further away from the power source, we kind of can get away with not being tuned in, but when we do, they're aware.Matt Parker- Yeah, their awareness level is so next level, so high. I like the little nuances and they can feel a lot of they can and can't always communicate verbally, but they definitely know what they're feeling and experiencing in a different way than most regular people.Michael Frampton - Yeah. You know, what I found that's really [00:10:00] interesting is, all of the pros, well, not all of them. A lot of the pros, when you see them out free surfing or when they take a break off tour, then they're not riding high performance shortboards. You know, Josh Kerr is a great example. Um, you know, even Steph Gilmore and Kelly Slater with fire waves just riding different boards as soon as there's not a camera and a judge looking at them, they're like, I'm on this board. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I go down to the local beach and it's waist high and onshore and it's 11 seconds and there's people out there on toothpicks pumping and getting angry. But the pro even the pros when they're surfing good waves, they're not on those high performance short boards. Are you seeing a similar trend overall in Southern California?Matt Parker- Uh, yeah. I mean, well, specifically with everybody that all the, all the guys and gals I make boards for. But no, no one that rides for us really does contest surfing. Most everyone is just kind of free surfing. And so they're definitely on the track of surfing, whatever feels good and experiencing a lot of different things. But yeah, Josh is a perfect example. I don't think he's touched a thruster since his last heat up pipe, honestly, when he retired and that was probably five years ago or something like that. Even in good waves and every kind of wave, whether he's in Indo or wherever it is, he's always writing something different. And uh, I think obviously like high performance shortboards surf. Amazing. We all love to watch surfing. We love watching contests and, you know, the sport of it all. It's always exciting and entertaining and all that. But I think that type of board, um, directs you to one type of surfing. There's, you know, like everyone's trying to kind of surf the ideal way that that board kind of pushes you to. And the judging and the contest structure is kind of, um, positioned around that ideal as well. So I think, um, when you remove that, that box that you're trying to operate in and you don't have to do the same turns and all that, you know, you're just freed up to do whatever you want to do. That's always going to be a more fun option. And for me personally, I am someone who makes boards, it's true. That's my favorite thing, is to see, uh, people that can surf at a world class level, see them surf a lot of different boards and see the different places those boards can go when it's put under the feet of very, very talented people. Because, um, because for the most part, you know, the most, most of the surf media, the most surf contests, you see these very high level surfers riding very similar type of equipment. So.Michael Frampton - Um, yeah, I've always had this analogy in terms of car racing, whereas the pros in a contest, they're in a finely tuned formula one that's customized for their style. Right. And then for some reason, we want to go race around the local racetrack, and we think we need to be in one of those cars. And yeah, sure, that when the average driver is in a high performance car, yes, you can drive it around the track, but man, it's going to be bumpy. It's going to be shaking if you're not constantly turning the car. It's just not going to be as fun as getting in a V8 supercar that's nowhere near as fast or fine tuned, but is a little more. It's got a little more given it still goes fast. So that's what I'm wondering. You see these pros, when they're surfing outside of the contest, they don't necessarily want to be in a finely tuned formula one. They just want to be in a V8 supercar and just have a little less pressure and a little more give. How does that analogy stack up for you? The car racing one?Matt Parker- Well, I like to me surfing really is about the feeling, right? And like the tactile feeling of driving a car that's fast and that wants to go and that you're feeling it. And there's a little bit of like, uh, you know, you're not going to, you're not going to crash right away, you know, like a regular driver. If they went behind the F1 car, they're probably going to crash pretty quick because they just can't handle it. Right. It's too technical to drive all that kind of stuff. So you get into something that has a better feel. But it is about the feeling. And you know, ultimately that's what we're chasing every time we surf. That's why we want to get another wave, is because you want to get that feeling again. And uh, and so the same with the pros that can surf at the highest level. You know, they're chasing the feeling the contest is like the job side of it. You know, it's ticking the box I feel in to win and do all that. But if they're freed from that, they're chasing the feeling of going fast and finding a tube and not having to fit in as many turns as they as they need to just to get the score, but to actually do the turn where the wave is, allowing them to or not, or just ride the wave.Michael Frampton - So that makes sense. Well, yeah, because I'm always dumbfounded when you see so many surfers spending so much time and money on taking these high performances. You know, they watch stab in the dark and they want to buy the latest version of the ten short boards that they already own. It really doesn't make much sense to me. And I think things are changing, but there certainly is still a large percentage of surfers that fit in that category. Uh, do you think it's trending the other way with companies like yourself and even, you know, Channel Islands are broadening their range of boards? Um, I.Matt Parker- Think it's for me, it definitely is the best time to be alive, to be a surfer, because you really have more options nowadays than you ever have in the past, and you really can ride anything. When I was when I was young, as a teenager in the 90s, surfing, it really was you. Everyone kind of had the same board. I rode the same board, no matter the conditions. It was like a six, three, 18.5, two and a quarter rockered out shortboard no matter what. If it was one foot, if it was six foot, whatever. So nowadays you really do like I think everyone's kind of experienced like, oh yeah, I can have a little bit more of a diverse quiver and it's okay if I'm riding a fish one day or I'm riding like a little stretched out worm another day, or if I'm riding a shortboard one day or whatever, it's like there's a little bit more, um, versatility and variety and, um, so it's a it's a great time to be alive, to be a surfer in that way. I think, um, uh, I just think that, yeah, there's just less rules, less rules about it, more enjoyment.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Yeah. I guess the question is, the impetus of the show is education and inspiration for better surfing, really. And I guess when I take on a client myself personally, um, one of the first things I say to them is like, why do you want to? Why are you on that board? Like, this isn't you're not surfing double overhead barrels. Like that's what their board's made for. Like just try.Matt Parker- Yeah, I think I've said this before, but I think a lot of, um, uh, just the culture of surfing is a little bit like, no, everyone wants to look competent. Right. And so a lot, a lot of surfing culture is the perception that you put out there. Right? Like, I'm the cool guy. I got the right board, I got I'm not a kook, you know, I'm wearing the right trunk. So I've got the right wetsuit and I've got the right traction pad and whatever it is, I've got the cool label. This is what I'm, you know, because a lot of people are more concerned with what, how others perceive them in the lineup, because sometimes, you know, how you're perceived in the lineup, gives you status and gives you, you know, if you're competent, you can kind of you get more waves and you get a little bit more respect from people around you. And so there's a little bit of a game that people play in trying to, um, project competency and cool and a cool factor. And I'm not a kook. And so sometimes people put too much weight on that and they're more concerned with what they look like on the beach or in the car park than they actually are.Matt Parker- And then the enjoyment they're actually getting out of it themselves, you know, like, are you actually having fun? If you mentioned like the guys that are flapping around and having a miserable time. There's always people out in the water that are having you kind of wonder sometimes. Do you actually like, what are you actually getting out of this? Do you actually enjoy what you're doing? And, uh, I don't know, every different stroke for different folks. People get different things out of it. And maybe that little social status thing is more important than the actual surfing. And I, I think that's obviously short term thinking because and it's like, that's a hollow chase that you're after because you're never going to be satisfied with that. And you shouldn't be. I don't think you should be spending too much time pursuing things for the approval of others. You know, surfing is kind of a solitary pursuit, right? You're you're the one that's doing it, and you're the one that's riding the wave, and you're the one that's having that moment and feeling it. If you're doing it for what other people think about you, I think you're missing. You're missing the point, you know?Michael Frampton - So, yeah, well, I definitely fit it in that category for a while. Um, we all do.Matt Parker- At some point, you know, in a little bit. We all do. You know everyone? No. Like I said, everybody who surfs wants to look competent. Kelly Slater doesn't want to be a kook. He wants to be the cool guy in the lineup. We all kind of have that feeling to a certain degree.Michael Frampton - Um, and there's something to be said, you know, surfing that high performance shortboard in all types of conditions you will develop a very intimate relationship with that surfboard. And when the waves do turn on, you're going to be pretty used to it. And then, you know, you're probably going to have a better surf on that day. Um, but was there a point in your surfing [00:20:00] life where that changed, like where you started riding different boards, more volume, etc.?Matt Parker- Um, yeah. Like I said, I grew up in the like, I started surfing in the late 80s, early, and then through the 90s, I was a teenager and then in the early 90s and, uh, back then it was really about just being competent enough and you just riding what everybody else wrote. And that was really all that was available was just kind of your standard shortboards for, um, I guess for, for me as, like a general public, you know, not in, you know, I didn't have any my dad surfed a little bit when he was young, but I didn't I didn't come from like a long line of family surfing and all that kind of stuff. And so probably I, I started getting curious, more curious about surfboards. Um, and that's kind of what led me into shaping a little bit is that I was interested. I, you know, you get back then this is pre-internet really, you know, but you would get little. To see different little videos. You'd see different things that were just like, oh, you know, like, that looks fun. That looks like more fun. I was surfing Newport Beach. It's two foot closeouts most of the time it's not good. It's, you know, it's hard. Like surfing is hard out there and you're riding equipment that's bad.Matt Parker- So you just have a lot of frustrating sessions and you just like, just gotta, you know, just you would see videos, you'd see guys in good waves. And so that was always like I was interested in, um, trying different boards to get a different experience. You know, I was competent enough, but I was by no means pro or anything like that. I was good enough out in the lineup to get waves and to surf and fine, but it was not. But I always felt like those boards held me back, too, you know, just the normal boards, because they kind of, you know, they you just have like, it can't be this frustrating all the time. So the interest in different boards. So I would go to different shops and I would want to get a board that was different and I could never really find one. You know, it can never really find what I was looking for. And then, um, even when I would order custom boards, you know, from local shapers, you would try to explain what I had in my brain, what I was like trying to go for. And it was never it never like it was probably my fault for not communicating that clearly what I was really after, but it never was it.Matt Parker- And so I was, uh, in design school and art school and taking all these like, sculpture and drawing and painting classes and stuff. And so it was just kind of a natural extension to get a blank and some tools and kind of experiment and just try to make something without any restrictions of what it had to look like, because I was just fooling around, you know. So that was probably the, the, the interest. And that was probably at the time when, like, um, things were coming more online and you had more access to just different things other people were doing. And so you could kind of see, uh, you know, your world was kind of opened up as far as, like, oh, there's like other shapers and all these places making different things. And there are a lot of cool things out there that I just hadn't really experienced and I didn't have. I had never tried or felt or seen in person, but like, it just kind of expanded what was possible. And, the interest level and surfing really grew. And my fun level expanded too, because it was like everything was opened up more.Michael Frampton - Um, and then it sounds like the developer or the birth of album surfboards was quite organic. You saw essentially a gap in the market, right?Matt Parker- Yeah. Why? Initially, for years I was shaping boards with no, no intention of it being a thing, being a business or anything. It was more I just wanted to try different things. And, um, the creation, the creation part of it was really fun, like just designing and trying something and the tactile thing of making something with your hands and then seeing it finished and then going and writing it was very addicting. It was very, um, yeah, just kind of opened my mind a lot. And it was just it's just it made, um, the exploration process of trying different boards, satisfying even if the surf was bad. So in the old days, you know, as a kid when I was a teenager and you're trying to just, like, do all the moves you see in the videos and you're having frustrating sessions because the waves aren't good most of the time, and you're writing boards that aren't good. You just surfing wasn't as fun. And so when I was, when I was making boards and exploring and trying these different types of shapes, just going out and seeing that it worked and making it like get down the line and get the feeling of speed that I was kind of envisioning with it was satisfying.Matt Parker- So the waves didn't have to be good, and my surfing didn't have to be amazing. And I was still, like, very satisfied and validated and surf stoked. I was inspired to go make another board and surf more because I wanted to try out these things that I was, um, that I was playing around with, but. I did that for years. Hundreds, probably a couple thousand boards before it was even, like a real, um, business I was doing. I was a designer by trade, and so I was doing like graphic design work, and that was kind of what my, uh, employment or job focus was, and was making boards was like this side, this just kind of creative art project on the side that I could just have fun with and I could usually like, um, sell, sell one to pay for another one and, you know, find it, you know, put it up like in the used rack at a shop and sell it on consignment. Just turn it over enough to learn the craft without any pressure of having to be a professional at doing it.Michael Frampton - Yeah. So. So did your entrepreneurial journey begin with the album agency?Matt Parker- Yeah, exactly. So that was I was running my own business and just doing client work, client design work that way. And um, the building the surfboards and kind of treating it like my own little micro brand was kind of also an extension of the graphic design side. So I was able to kind of like, you know, you're doing you're doing work on for clients in industries that you're not really interested in, you know, and I was like, here's, here's a chance for me to play around with design and create it and kind of like make this a fun little, like. You know, brand for fun without any, you know, strings attached. Yeah. That's pretty.Michael Frampton - And what inspired you to make the leap? To turn the surfboards into the main business?Matt Parker- Uh, there was just, uh. Well, I was doing it at night, so I would be working, like, in the day, like client work and, um, uh, designing and and, uh, getting projects done. And then I'd go home and have dinner with the family and then put the little kids to bed and go in my garage or go in my backyard and shape at night. And I was doing this a lot. So I was working a lot. I was working a full time plus job and then shaping on the side and demanding just kind of like, you know, we're just kind of we would get out, you know, I was making boards that were probably interesting and that resonated with other people that they hadn't seen either. And there was something unique about what we were doing. And so, um, the age of when we are, you know, in this last 15 years where things are just more accessible and people can find you easier, you know, it just kind of the awareness of what I was doing got out there probably faster than if it was 30 years ago. No, the people in my little community would have known. But then. So then people would just want to order a board, and then that just kind of gets to this, uh, point where, uh, the demand kind of exceeds like the time on the other side. And so just kind of realized like, oh, there's, uh, I think and by that point, too, I had made enough boards and had enough awareness of, like, just the surf industry and kind of where things, where things were that you could kind of see opportunities, uh, or openings in the market. And like, here we have something different to say, and there's people that are interested in what we're doing. So yeah, let's make a little run at it.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Well you mentioned supply and demand. I mean that is why business exists. So obviously the culture is changing. You know, people are more interested in, uh, you know, different shapes. And, uh, I would say a higher level of longevity. You get a much more longevity out of a surfboard like yours as opposed to a pop out, um, white shortboard for sure.Matt Parker- I think the other thing, too, was I made boards. I made some boards for some good surfers, some pros and things like that, and they worked really well. And so there was kind of like this validation of like, oh, okay. Like, I mean, I knew like I was like I said, I was competent enough to know that they worked for my level of surfing, and I was having an amazing time at having fun. And my friends were. But then, um, when you when I made some boards for guys that could surf really well, and then they had more fun on that too. It was kind of like, oh, you know, maybe there really is something a little different that we're doing that does work and makes sense of like we should kind of should follow that path because there's, there's something there that hasn't been tapped into yet, and it resonates with guys that can surf at the highest level. So we should kind of pursue that.Michael Frampton - Um, that leads me into a question I have about let's get into your designs a little bit. So. I remember I first got into surfing fish surfboards. I had a Christiansen fish that I used to surf a lot. And then I remember one day the waves turned [00:30:00] on, um, and rising swell. And next thing, next thing you know, I'm surfing almost double overhead waves. And I find man to to be able to surf that fish in those real good solid waves, I would have to move my feet closer to the inside rail to do a bottom turn, and then I go up to do a top turn. It would just slide outside. This is not the right surfboard, but at the same time, I don't want to be surfing a high performance shortboard. And then you look at someone like Josh Kerr surfing the twins men or the, um, insanity. I think it is in the mentor wise in double overhead waves getting barreled and doing airs on what is, I guess, hybrid or alternative high performance shape. Now, is that the kind of board that only he can ride in those waves? Or is it designed so that anyone can have a good time in those overseas waves?Matt Parker- Well, I think there's a misnomer to me, there was always a misnomer in the marketplace that high performance shortboards are for like real surfing and alternative boards are just, you know, for fun or whatever. And, um, I think if you look at the trajectory of surf of surfboards from, you know, longboards logs up into the early 60s, mid 60s to how quickly it progressed and revolutionized, like what people were riding in such a short window of time. There's so many, um, like, design steps along the way and different types of boards along the way that, like, didn't get their full, uh, fleshing out. Right. So there's a lot of ideas in that time and I, I mean, Twin Fins is a perfect example of that. Like where twin fins were really at like their height from, you know, 78 to 81 or something like that, or, you know, 77, like, what is it, 3 or 4 years or something like that, where twin fins were like the, you know, high performance little hot dog board that people were riding and that was with kind of like, I mean, nowadays, like that window of time is a is a blink, you know, three years. It's like most of us have boards that we've surfed for five, six, eight years. You know what I mean? So three years is nothing. And so, you know, you just see like, oh, the fins they were writing, they didn't have enough time to develop the right fins for them, and they didn't have enough time to think about fin placement and, and designing the rail shape and bottom contour to fit like where that goes and like what type of wave that needs to be surfed in and what blanks were available and different glassing, you know, layups and all that.Matt Parker- It was just like it was just too fast. And so, um, I've always felt like, um, alternative boards, twin fins are not, um, like a, a cop out of, like, I'm just I'm just going to screw around. Like, it's like any sort of design, any, any, any place. I'm going to take a surfboard. There's like an intended, uh, performance or design intention for that concept. And so the concept is meant to perform at a high level. It's just a different way of doing it. And um, and so like with Josh, those boards, like he has more fun and more freedom, more speed, they're easier to turn on a twin fin, you know, and so if you can make them and design it to be able to handle any type of wave, there's there's certainly obviously capable and validated by him and others in those types of waves. And so it's it's just a matter of, um, uh, backing it, backing the concept and then proving the concept and then iterating the idea and the concept enough to prove it out and refine it and get it right so that it actually does work in those types of ways.Matt Parker- But I think sometimes when, uh, like, uh, you know, shapers or whatever, if, if they're focused on one thing, if they're focused on high performance shortboards, their version of a twin fin or a fish is like a is not the main design intention. It's almost like a little, it's like a spin off of their shortboard idea. And it's like they take their shortboard idea and they kind of fatten it a little bit and just put two fins in it instead of three and, you know, maybe make it a swallowtail. We'll call it the alternative board. And to me, I'm more focused on the concept of a high performance swim fin that maybe surfs better or is more of an advantage than a shortboard would be in those waves. And so it's like, how would I design it? Where do the fins go? What does that mean for the bottom contour? Like what dimensions are we talking about. You know, and so there's so like the funnest thing about surfing is there's so many variables in the, in the types of waves in the swell and the wind conditions and the interval and the where you're surfing, the type of surfing you want to do. And so there's kind of like these endless rabbit holes of design and conceptual thinking. You can go down and create whatever. And it's so fun too, because I mean, I think surfers should be, should be very grateful and realize how fortunate that we all are.Michael Frampton - That we we we.Matt Parker- Um, participate in this pursuit where we can make all sorts of different things all the time. I mean, if you're like, if you're driving or you're, uh, skiing or whatever it is, it's much more difficult to you're not going you're not going to go make a, a ten different concepts of skis that you're going to go try out every time, every different time you go surfing. But with the surfboards you can make, you know, I can go surf today, have a session out there, get the pros and cons of the Board of Writing. I come back to design something based on that idea, shape it that day, gloss it, and be surfing something next week.Michael Frampton - Mm.Matt Parker- Something that I was intending to design for. That's just like a, it's just a cool thing that we're, we all kind of. And surfing small enough surf industry is small enough that if you're, uh, uh, motivated like you can have access to any of that, it's relatively, you know, for what that is for the for the, uh, access to that kind of R&D and design like options for different types of boards. It's relatively expensive, not super cost prohibitive. You know, if you're if you're into it, if you're committed to it, it's affordable enough. You can, you know.Michael Frampton - Mhm. Yeah I think the importance of a quiver is. Yeah I mean I don't know whether that's why you chose the name album. But you know it makes me think of a good album like Pearl jam ten which is ten really good songs, all with different moods but still the same album. You know, you can sit, you can sit down and listen to the album, or you can sit down and listen to one song and I almost see a. A surfboard quiver is like that. It's, you know, has ten surfboards that are for you, but for the different types of moods and the waves that you're surfing. But it does make me think, because there's also that Swiss Army knife surfboard that kind of does pretty good in most waves and tends to excel in sort of head high. Good waves, for sure. What's that? What's that surfboard for you within your quiver? What would that Swiss army knife board be?Matt Parker- Well, that would probably be like a board I would travel with. Right. Because you're something that you would have that you'd want to have, um, versatility for. And that would probably be like Victor's model. Like a banana. Bunches like a quad, asymmetrical quad. It's kind of a hybrid. It's definitely a performance board, but it definitely is easier to go fast. And it paddles a little bit better. And it turns out to be super easy. And it's versatile in a lot of kinds of ways. Um, it's probably something like that. Um, honestly, uh, if you have the right mindset, though, almost any board in your quiver should be able to fill that slot, I think.Michael Frampton - Yeah, that's a good point.Matt Parker- Yep. It's all I mean, there's a to me there's there's, um, you know, there's sometimes there's people sometimes we all do it where we're no matter what board you're surfing, people try to surf the same way. Right. They have like they're the way I bought them turned. This is my turn. I do, and this is my little re-entry idea. And you'll watch them out there. And it doesn't matter if they're riding their fish or mid length or short board or whatever it is, they kind of surf the same. And uh, that's fine. That's totally fine. But I, I think it's good to, um, be a little bit more open to what the board wants to do and the type of surfing that board is going to allow you to do and, and how it might open up the kind of surfing you do and the enjoyment you get out of that kind of surfing so that it makes you a little bit more versatile in what your approach is like. Victor Bernardo, who writes for us, is like is a really good example of that because I think a lot of times people when they're like when they're building a quiver, they are a little bit too narrow in scope or what like range, they're they're going for like I it happens all the time where I'll have people that they kind of they want their fish and their short board and a twin fin and everything to kind of be all within, like a little volume range, like, here's my leader, here's the leader I [00:40:00] ride, and my boards need to be within 30 to 30 1.5l.Matt Parker- And they try to fit like all their boards. And it's like, I think you're missing out if you're thinking about it in that way. So Victor is this perfect example because he's a young man, 26, 27 years old, the highest level professional surfer can surf as well as anybody in the world. Um. Competed on the show, did all that stuff right. But if you look at his quiver, it is like. From five 0 to 8 zero and everything in between. I mean, obviously he has access to a lot of boards, which helps. It makes it easy to ride a lot of stuff. But still his mindset is like his, if you were just talking about what volume he writes, he writes from 29l to 42l, you know what I mean? So his range is like this and these are all. Different types of what I would call performance sports. So even yesterday or this week we were in Hawaii.Matt Parker- He's still there right now. But we were on the North Shore this past week and he was riding A68 bungee roundtail, which is normal. His normal version is like a five 8 or 5 nine, and he was riding the six eight roundtail version that was plus volume. It was actually one of Brendan Morrison's boards that Margo left there in Hawaii. When Margo went back to Australia, Victor took it out and got a couple amazing waves of pipe, you know, on that on that board. And so it's just I and definitely not limiting his performance, actually enhancing his performance because it was something that unique that he wouldn't have maybe taken out normally, but it just kind of opened up his surfing. And I think if you remain a little bit more, um, open, open to what the board wants to do and what the waves are asking you to do, you will just have more fun. Yeah. Surfing gets to, like you were saying, just like it started right when you're riding the glider and then you go jump onto your shore board, your surfing is better because you're kind of your fundamentals are better. Your timing is a little different. You know, your mindset is a little different.Michael Frampton - So yeah, I think every board you ride opens up. You have to read the waves a little differently and look for different lines. And like you said, your timing has to be better. Or maybe it can be more lax or you're looking for a different type of wave or whatever. So I think it really just helps you to read the ocean better. I think that's the main reason why different surfboards, uh, can improve your surfing when you jump back on your favorite board because you just read the wave with more detail. Writing that glider changed my realization of how big and how fast of a section I can actually make because those boards go ridiculously fast. Um, yeah. And I surprised myself many times with what I could, what section I could get around and that literally translated to surfing other boards. I'm going to try and make that section. I'm going to get a bit lower and stay on the whitewash a bit longer. And lo and behold, surfing that big crazy board just had me making different types of waves and changing my whole perspective on reading the ocean. Um, it sounds like I agree with that. It sounds like Victor Victor needs to go longer as well.Matt Parker- He does. He rides bigger. But I think the point of a querer is to make you surf as much as possible. So no matter what the waves are, you have the right board to have fun that day. And that's really the, to me, the thing that improves you as a surfer the most is water time. So if you're surfing a lot, if you're surfing more days than you're not, you're going to get better. You read the ocean better your time, your timing is better, your strength, your paddle strength is better. All that stuff kind of comes into play the more you surf. And so if you have a quiver that motivates you to want to surf and makes you kind of no matter what the waves are, you're like, oh, I'm stoked to go out today because I have the right board and I'm going to have more fun. And you see those guys struggling and you're having fun and they're miserable. It's like, oh yeah, you made the right choice, and you have the right board to just get out in the water a lot.Michael Frampton - Yeah, I think you nailed it that that's that is the point of a quiver. So it's as simple as that. And you're right. I mean, the best thing that ultimately that you can do for your surfing is not only to surf more, but to surf more waves. And if you're on the right surfboard for the condition, you are going to catch more waves when it's knee high. Here at my local point break and there's no one out, I'm I'm literally giddy because I have an 11 foot Josh Hall and no one can compete with that because no one.Matt Parker- How did you ship that thing to New Zealand? How did you get that point there? That's what I want to know.Michael Frampton - Yeah, I know, it.Matt Parker- Just.Michael Frampton -I, I filled a container with all of my stuff. So I've got, I've got my weight, I got my weighing rich nine eight and everything. Everything here. So how. How would you if I just asked you an open question? What is a surfboard?Matt Parker- Uh, well, there's the, you know, it's foam and fiberglass and resin and all that. Right. Uh, but I think it's just it's a tool to allow you to go ride the waves. So whatever that is, it, um, comes in, comes in many forms, that's for sure. Yeah. Uh, I think it's, uh, depending on, you know, the a surfboard for pipeline, like we were where we were at last week is not a surfboard for Upper Trestles, where I surf most every other day. Very, very different tools for those different, different types of waves. And so I think it's a tool that gets you to, to catch a wave and ride a wave. Yeah.Michael Frampton - Simple. How would you describe your current relationship with surfing in the ocean, and how has it evolved over the years?Matt Parker- Um, I surf a lot. To me, it's the most important thing in my job as a designer and shaper and surfboard manufacturer is being in the water as much as I can. So I, I surf 5 or 6 days a week. And, uh, it's kind of a like daily ritual getting out there. And so I surf a lot. Um, I, I'm 47 now, so I'm definitely past my peak of, uh, I've my, my better my best days are behind me as far as, like strength and ability level and all that kind of stuff. But I definitely have more fun surfing now than I ever have in my life. And, uh, I get more enjoyment out of it and I have a better perspective on it. And so, um, you just appreciate different things about sessions that you, you skipped and you missed when you're young and immature. And so, you know, with age comes wisdom. And so I definitely yeah, I appreciate it. Every session I go out I just have a better mindset for, uh, just appreciating the opportunity to go out and surf. I live in a place where I have things like surf boards to ride and just waves most every day that are rideable. It's a real blessing. So I think that my mindset makes me appreciate it more now than ever. So. Mhm.Michael Frampton - Yeah I like that. What's I'm going to go back to. So we talked about the Swiss army, the single board. What if you could take what if you could choose three boards to travel with or just to have what those three boards be.Matt Parker- It's, you know it's funny we were because we're talking about quivers. Right. And I'm actually like, I, I don't have a great quiver because I don't have boards. I hold on to that long. The problem for me is that I'm always, uh, I'm always doing R&D and and working on new models and new boards. And so it's, it's ever changing. So my answer would probably be that if you asked me next month, it would probably be different than it would be a month ago. So it changes all the time. But if I was going to like where we live, going down to Mexico, go down there all the time and surf the points, I would for sure take some form of a fish. I've been riding, um, a version of Asher Pacey's Sunstone with a little hip, and I've been riding it as a quad a bunch lately, and I've been riding it with, um, twin fin like upright twin fins in the lead boxes and little small trailers and the quad trailer boxes, and been having a good old time on that, so I would definitely bring one of those. I'd probably bring a, uh, like a bigger board, like, uh, like one of Margot's models in Vesper or a Delma, which is like a stretched out, kind of like a slot channel. Concave bonds or little bottom quad. I definitely bring one of those. I can hang in good surf, too. And they're really nimble, easy to turn for a big board. I'll ride those six, 8 to 7, 2 to 7, four, seven, six. I have an 80I take out on that all the time. Um, definitely take that. And then I'd probably take something asymmetrical, some sort of a disorder model, which is like my high performance kind of like foolish rails outlines shifted and [00:50:00] or a bungee. Like I was saying, it's probably something to at least like to cover the bases. Yep.Michael Frampton - Okay, cool. I'm taking a whale shark, a Vespa and an insanity.Matt Parker- Oh that's good. That's a good call to the, uh, yeah. The whale shark would tick that glider box for you for sure. Uh, so I.Michael Frampton - Want one so bad just by reading the description. That's it. Yeah.Matt Parker- Uh.Matt Parker- When you're talking about that build up of that section and you're just in so early and you have fun for me, the fun of those boards is that kinetic energy of like, the speed building, like you build the speed and maintain the speed and build the speed some more. And it's just a very satisfying feeling. It's just me and I. We make longboards and I enjoy longboarding. But I prefer it if I'm riding a big bull like a big board. I prefer a glider for a big twin, like a whale shark. I have a little bit more fun just because I. I probably surf more off the back foot than I do in a walking and walking the nose and all that kind of stuff.Michael Frampton - So yeah. Same. Yeah. It's amazing if you, if you got your if you're used to it and you get your timing right, you can step back on an 11 foot board and do a cutback. And like it's so satisfying in the and you're right, it's the main reason the maintenance of the momentum of one of those big boards is such an incredible feeling. And it's amazing what sections you can make. And I've had some of the longest rides ever. Oh, I bet in and on what most people would seem as unmakeable waves just by taking that high line and trusting it. It's uh. Yeah, it's an incredible feeling.Matt Parker- Riding gliders is like it's own form of riding a foil board. It's like you're almost ride those boards. You ride those waves that, um, you know, no one else can really get into depth. Length of ride is insane on those. Yeah.Michael Frampton - And it's, um, Joel Tudor says it's the ultimate goal, right? Is Skip Frye.Matt Parker- Oh, yeah, for sure.Michael Frampton - It's the end game.Michael Frampton -Uh, but it's, uh, I mean, I've, I've surfed that board in. I was a few years ago. We had it in Malibu. There's a little doom. There's an outer reef that breaks when you get those, those 18 second northwest swells. I took my glider out there and it was double overhead barreling, and I was like, wow, maybe I shouldn't have bought this. But I managed to get such a high line and set the rail so early that I could just avoid the barrel and still have and still catch the waves and have such a rad time. So there's such versatile boards if you know how to surf them.Matt Parker- And you're doing your own step offs.Michael Frampton - Basically.Matt Parker- Oh it is towed in out the back. Yeah. It's just like being able to paddle that fast. It's amazing.Michael Frampton - Oh yeah. And that's the thing. You can pedal around so much. That's what I like about them so much too if you can see a section over there. You can just paddle over to it.Matt Parker- And that board's going to last you forever. 20 years from now, you'll still be searching roughly. You'll have that. You'll have that thing forever. Yeah. Which is special.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Was that so? Obviously it sounds like you've experienced writing. Was that the inspiration for the whale shark writing? Gliders.Matt Parker- Yeah. Just write just just because like I was saying, I'm not like I'm not a longboarder. That's walking on the nose. And you know, I'm more into just trim and glide and that feeling. And obviously you want to have a board that you can ride for us on those longboard days when it's really small and it's just soft and just little open faces. And so that was my preference was to ride that style of board. And so it was. It's just for me it's like an extension of the fish. Obviously it's taking A56 fish and making it ten six and so on. So the same kind of principle is a little bit for me. It's just putting it with a really long rail and with a different, you know, sort of rocker to fit that wave face.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Yeah. Just a side note for listeners, if you haven't written a longboard or a log, don't go out and buy a glider. It's, it's get used to a long board first because there are a lot of surfboards. And you're if you don't know how to ride them, you're just going to hurt someone.Matt Parker- You're nine. Four was a perfect little entry point.Michael Frampton - Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Now soft tops. I wanted to ask you about soft tips. You guys are making soft tops. I haven't seen or touched or ridden one of your soft tops, but they look quite different to the Cosco or the int style ones. What's your point of difference with soft tops?Matt Parker- We make them in a few different places. We have uh, some that we make that are like injected foam. And so it's where we actually took my shape to board and we made a mold, I shaped a few boards and we made molds off of these finished shaped boards. And that allows you to really put in design detail into that mold. And so like one of them has a little channel bottom, you can put real thin boxes in them. Um, they're obviously not high performance because they're phonies, you know what I mean? But there's a different mindset. There's the right day for that. Even if you surf well, obviously for beginners, they're great because you can surf them into the sand and they just float easy to catch waves. They're kind of a little bit um, they're a little bit slower. So the pacing of them kind of matches the wave when you're just kind of learning to like, ride the trim and ride the like the speed of the wave. So for people, learning is great, but for people that know how to surf, it's like those days when it's closing out and it's on the sand, or you just want to go out and have fun and fool around.Matt Parker- It's something different. So, um, so those ones we do and those are made in the US and there's just like injection foam molded soft tops. And then we also make some in Peru that are, uh, by the surfers in Peru, which are pretty sick. They're kind of more, they've got, um, a foam core and they have stringers and they're kind of like a slick bottom, like, uh, like some of the soft tops, you see. But they actually have like, real shape and they have a better flex to them. And there's real thin boxes. And those are kind of like, uh, a kind of a cool in-between where if you're like a kid or you're someone who's like kind of progressing, it's a great board to kind of progress on because you can actually turn them and you can surf them pretty decently and they're less, you know, less expensive and all that. They're made in a surf country by surfers, which is pretty cool.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I've got a 96 INT that I absolutely love. Um and I've always huh.Matt Parker- Ah It is got really good.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Yeah.Michael Frampton - And it lasted quite a while actually. It's still going. I actually surfed it every day when I was doing lessons for a long time and then would just end up catching loads of waves on it. I love them so much because it's a boat, right? The nine six int, it's a thick, big surfboard, but because it I think because it flexes so much, it's you can ride it in lots of different types of waves and actually have it actually really turn it much easier than the same amount of surfboard if it was a stiff sort of a is that why? And then you watch Jamie O'Brien surf them and pipe like.Matt Parker- Well, it's just funny.Matt Parker- It's sometimes it looks like he has the right board for them which is insane. He's obviously a.Matt Parker- Freak but that's.Matt Parker- But to me the point of it is, it's like it's a mindset thing. When you're riding those boards, you're kind of like, you're not you're definitely not trying to win a contest. When you're riding one of those, you're definitely going out there to have fun and kind of goof around, which is really good. This is a good reset for surfing, I think, as you kind of, you know. You can't try too hard. We just.Matt Parker- Got out there and.Matt Parker- It's much easier to kind of give, give a wave away to someone else. You're not you're not going to be back paddling people to get waves when you're on those. And so you're it's just it's a good mindset to reset and have fun on them. And that's why it's amazing how many sessions you have on those where you have a lot of fun, because your mindset is in a good place and you're not you're not overdoing it, you're not overcooking it, and you're better. Perspective.Michael Frampton - Yeah, yeah, I guess you're not too worried about it cracking. If you miss time, something close to the sand or the board hits you a little bit, it's not as bad. Yeah, I've always enjoyed it. I've always enjoyed the novelty of riding a soft top. And it's stoked to see you guys making some, some, some more refined looking ones.Matt Parker- Yeah. I mean, the idea is obviously still there. The point is that they're soft tops. But if we can kind of come at it from a different angle, there's no need for us to go to the same factory that Wave storm or Cat surf makes and then just put different graphics on a soft top. Those already exist, right? Like we don't need to just have our that's just another commodity. We don't, we don't need to make another one of those. But if we can like if we can make something that's a little unique or that offers something different from everything else that's out there, and it gives a different feeling and we explore different things, then cool. We'll try it out and we'll give it a go. So.Michael Frampton - Um, cool. Well, Matt, thank you so much for your time. I got one more question I want to leave you with before we sign off, which is what's your best and worst surf advice? That you ever received?Matt Parker- Yeah, I would see. I would say me too. But the worst would be.Matt Parker- I mean, the. Matt Parker- Best would definitely be like we've been talking about is like, uh, I've said this and I've said this before, this is kind of like my running theme a little bit as far as, like, choose the board, you know, when you're going to decide what you're going to ride. Like, think about if there was no one else on the beach and no one else is out in the water like you're talking about that day when you're happy and you're the only one out. Like, what would you actually ride? What do you actually really have the most fun surfing on? And that could be a short board. It could be a high performance short board. You could be. That's the day you take it out because you're not, you know, you're kind of kooky on it, but you want to get good and that's what you want to get out of it. But to me it's like I pick the board that if I don't do it to for the approval of others, you know, like choose what you really want to ride and what you really want to experience and just go do that and go have fun and I think you'll have the most fun. Um, I'm trying to think, like what? Uh, maybe that, um, you need to have an epoxy board for a wave pool. That's the worst.Matt Parker- That's that. That's it. I don't know how applicable that is, but.Michael Frampton - I think it's going to be more and more applicable very soon.Matt Parker- Well, I think and maybe that goes in line with what I think there are in surfing. There shouldn't be hard and fast rules. You know, sometimes there's like these perceptions and there's hard and fast rules like this is what you got to do and this is the way you gotta do it. And I don't like surfing. Doesn't have to like who says who don't have to do.Matt Parker- It's that way.Michael Frampton - Yeah. There's a famous surfer I can't remember. Is it Kelly Slater? I think he surfs a door.Michael Frampton - Yeah, you can. You can surf anything. Even an old door.Matt Parker- Exactly, exactly. I know a table. I think he surfs a table, like upside down.Michael Frampton - Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And isn't there a video with Taj Burrow and Chris Ward all surfing, all sorts of objects. Yeah. So yeah, there's no rules, right?Matt Parker- Like, why are we doing this? What are we doing this for? We want to have fun. Just be out in the ocean. So.Michael Frampton - Yeah. Exactly. Uh, well, Matt, thank you so much for your time, man. Appreciate it.Matt Parker- Yeah.Matt Parker- Great to chat with you. Cool.Michael Frampton - All right. Simple as that. Thanks, man.Matt Parker- Yeah. Good to meet you.Michael Frampton - You too. Guy Kawasaki on the Surf Mastery Podcast

Welcome to Surf Mastery Podcast, where we explore the fascinating intersections of life, sports, and the pursuit of challenges. In this episode, our host Michael John Frampton sits down with Guy Kawasaki to discuss the joys and trials of picking up surfing at 60, his unique philosophy on parenting and life, and the profound lessons learned along the way. Guy Kawasaki is a speaker, avid surfer, and respected author. His notable works include The Art of the Start, Enchantment: The Art of Changing Hearts, Minds, and Actions, and Wise Guy: Lessons from a Life. He is well-known for his influential role as Apple's Chief Evangelist in the 1980s and his significant contributions to Canva. Beyond his professional achievements, his passion for surfing, which he took up in his 60s is a profound metaphor for life's lessons. Episode Highlights:Surfing at Sixty: Guy shares his inspiring journey of starting to surf at the age of 60, motivated by his children's passions. Unlike many parents who impose their hobbies on their children, Guy believes in embracing what his children love, leading him to take up surfing and hockey later in life.Parenting Philosophy: Guy discusses his approach to parenting, emphasizing the importance of supporting and engaging in his children's interests rather than directing them.Life Lessons from Surfing: Surfing has not just been a sport for Guy but a source of life lessons. He talks about the complexities and unpredictability of surfing, drawing parallels between managing waves and life's challenges.Humorous Anecdotes: From confusing directions underwater to humorous interactions in the surf community, Guy brings a light-hearted perspective to the challenges of learning to surf.Persistence and Adaptability: Guy reflects on the broader implications of persistence in surfing, comparing it to career and personal life, where adaptability and resilience are crucial.Insights on Book Writing: Discussing his concise approach to writing, Guy emphasizes the importance of distilling vast amounts of information into accessible insights, mirroring his practical approach to life.Key Quotes:"Rather than me forcing them to take up what I love, I let them determine what I should take up based on what they love.""The first time I actually caught a wave and stood up, it was magic. Where else can you get this feeling?""You can sit out there in the water looking for that perfect wave all day and never turn and paddle. The same thing applies to life."Follow Guy Kawasaki:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/guykawasaki/Website: https://guykawasaki.com/Full Show Transcript:Michael Frampton: Welcome back to the Surf Mastery podcast. I am your host, Michael Frampton, and today's guest is Guy Kawasaki. You may have heard that name. He's very famous in Silicon Valley, especially for his early role and involvement with Apple. He's gone on to do a lot of projects since then. Too many to mention in this short intro, but one of his most recent projects is a very successful 200-plus episode podcast called 'Remarkable People', and he recently released a new book called 'Think Remarkable'. Based on those interviews, and the main reason that I wanted to get him on the show is because he started surfing at 60. Yes, six zero. Started surfing at 60. So yes, Guy has a very unique perspective on beginning surfing, and I was very excited when he accepted the invite to come on the show, and he did not disappoint. So without further ado, I will fade in my conversation with Guy Kawasaki. Hello, Guy, how are you?Guy Kawasaki: I'm good. I can hear you now. Yes.Michael Frampton: Excellent. And I've got you. Right. And it's recording. It looks like all the technical stuff is out of the way.Guy Kawasaki: Don't get overconfident. The day is young.Michael Frampton: It sure is. Well, and your lust for surfing. That's also quite young. Starting at 60. My gosh, that is. That's very late in life to start surfing. What inspired you to start?Guy Kawasaki: What inspired me was that my daughter in particular became an avid and competitive surfer. And I kind of have a different parenting perspective and philosophy. I think many parents, what they do is they inadvertently or advertently force their kids to take up what they're interested in. So if you're a golfer, your kid's golf, you're a surfer, your kid's surf. If you are a, I don't know, physicist, your kids take up physics or violin or whatever. Yeah, in my family it worked differently. So rather than forcing the kids to take up what I loved, they would force me to take up what I said that wrong rather than I take up what I could speak English. English is my first language rather than me forcing them to take up what I love. I let they determine what I should take up based on what they love. And so they loved surfing and they loved hockey. So I took up hockey at 44, and I took up surfing at 60 because that's what my kids are into.Michael Frampton: Oh, I love that, you're a good dad and that's an awesome philosophy and I actually have the same philosophy my kids got into football when they were quite young, and I just started playing with them, even though I never grew up playing it. I never liked the game, but now I actually love the game and have a strong appreciation for it.Guy Kawasaki: So when you say football, you mean American oblong football or European-like round waffle? Oh okay. Okay. Soccer.Michael Frampton: Yeah.Guy Kawasaki: Because if you took up American football at a late age, it's hard to get 20, 21 other guys out there with helmets killing each other so.Michael Frampton: Oh yeah. It's a rough sport. I mean, I grew up playing rugby, so I'm no stranger to that sort of world. But, it's not something you do when you're a or certainly not something you take up when you're older. It's a brutal sport.Guy Kawasaki: So I think.Michael Frampton: That thing can be pretty brutal, too. I mean, I'm sure you've had some gnarly wipeouts in your learning curve.Guy Kawasaki: Well, listen, my sweet spot is maybe 3 to 4 at the most. Okay? Like, I am perfectly happy at 1 to 2ft. My daughter surfs at Mavericks and stuff, but that's not me, but I will tell you that, there have been times where in, like, a one-foot wave, I fall down and I lose perspective and reference and I'm like paddling, trying to get back up to the surface and I hit my head on the bottom because I was going the wrong way. I've done some very kooky things, I assure you.Michael Frampton: So I'm interested to know, like, you're a smart guy. I'm sure when you decided to start surfing, what was your first entry point like? Did you get a lesson with someone? Did you just buy a board and jump in? How did you go about it?Guy Kawasaki: Listen, when you start surfing at 60, well, one would hope that in 60 years you've acquired some kind of street smartness. So you figure out that, you're just not going to go to Costco and buy $150 board and then go out to Mavericks and decide to surf and, you know, with your goggles and your GoPro and your helmet and your zinc on your face. So the first thing I did was I took lessons. I took lessons in Hawaii, I took lessons in India, I took lessons in Santa Cruz. I took lessons at Cowell's and at Jacks. I kind of figured out that, when you start that late, you've got to accelerate the pace. And the way to accelerate the pace is to get instruction. Not by hanging out with Groms all day, trying to surf during the summer.Michael Frampton: Yeah. So you sort many different opinions on instructions as well. That's a great strategy. Was there one particular lesson that stood out to you?Guy Kawasaki: Every lesson was difficult. I started paddle surfing. I don't know why I started paddle surfing, but anyway, so I started with paddle boards and then a surf instructor here in Santa Cruz was just who was coaching my daughter at the time. He definitely established the, should I say, pecking order in surfing, and let's just say that paddle boarding is beneath prone surfing. And so it was a constant humiliation. So at one point I just got tired of being humiliated. And I said, all right, so throw away the paddle, give me a narrow board, and off I go. He for months, was pushing me into waves, because I don't know, to this day, I think the hardest thing in surfing is knowing where to sit and when to turn. It's just like I barely understand it, and when I'm out there and I'm with experienced surfers and they turn and they catch a wave that I don't even see the wave. I'm like, what are they turning for? And then not only that, they turn and they catch a wave that I barely can see. And they only paddle twice and I'm paddling like freaking 50, 60 times trying to get up there, it's a different world.Michael Frampton: Oh, it sure is. And you nailed it. I mean, no matter what level of surfer you are, getting into the wave or choosing the right wave and getting into it in the right spot, that's always the hardest part. Because once you're standing up, once you're standing up on the right part of the wave, surfing is really simple and quite easy.Guy Kawasaki: Yeah, yeah. Well, it's a mystery to me. With surfing, there are so many variables, right? I mean, there's the wave. Well, even the wave, there's the height, there's the direction, there's the speed, Are you at the peak, are you on the shoulder. That's just the wave. And then you're going to think of the wind and you got to think of the other kooks in the water and then you got to worry about, we have a ten-inch fin and it's, it's negative one tide and all the kelp is sticking out. So that's not going to work. Well I mean there's so many variables. It's such a cerebral sport.Michael Frampton: Oh yeah. Now has and if so how has surfing made your life better?Guy Kawasaki: Oh absolutely. I mean, I surf every day. In fact, today I might surf twice. And here's like a Guy Kawasaki typical kind of story. So I have Méniere's disease. Méniere's disease has three symptoms, which is, sporadic attacks of vertigo, tinnitus, which is the ringing in your ear and hearing loss and so basically, my ears are all messed up, and it's not surfer ears or anything like that because I have only been surfing ten years, so it's not from surfing. This is a pre-existing condition. So if you said to somebody if you have middle ear issues and vertigo and deafness and tinnitus and all that kind of stuff, why don't you take up ice hockey and surfing? That's the perfect sports for you. The two sports that require balance the most I took up with the bad ears, huh?Michael Frampton: Wow. So you like when someone tells you you can't do something that you see as a challenge?Guy Kawasaki: I didn't listen. I mean, people have told me that I cannot do a lot of things, and quite frankly, they were right. So it's not a matter of proving them wrong. I will just say that, like the first time I played ice hockey, and the first time I actually caught a wave and stood up, it was magic. It was like Holy shit, this is like, where else can you get this feeling? It's like magical to be standing on a wave and somehow, like, you don't have to do anything like nature is pushing you forward. In my case 12 to 15 miles an hour. I mean and you don't need a hill to do that, like skateboarding when you fall on the pavement, it's a lot different than falling in the water. So, surfing is just magic. It's the most fun I think you can have legally.Michael Frampton: I agree, and so do all of our listeners. But it's also one of the it's also one of the most challenging things that you can. I mean have you is that's a good question. Is surfing the most challenging thing you've that you do?Guy Kawasaki: It is by far the most challenging thing I have ever tried to learn to do by far because there are so many variables. There's so many external variables and then there's your internal, there's like your body weight and your body type and your hip flexibility and, it's a very complex cerebral sport and I don't think people who don't surf, they don't appreciate how difficult it is because like basketball, you run and you jump in the normal course of life, right? I mean, ice hockey is like that, too. You don't skate naturally. I mean, that's something you have to learn the fundamentals. You have to learn. So I think part of the attraction for me, for surfing is that it is so hard. If I became immediately good at it, the thrill would be gone but it's taken ten years. I like my dream. Everybody has to have a dream. Right. So my dream is to be able to take four steps and hang ten on the nose. Okay? In ten years, I'm now able to sometimes take two steps. So it's taking me five years per step. So I need another ten years to get the total of four steps. I hope I make it.Michael Frampton: Yeah. Well, Jerry Lopez says that the first 20 years of surfing is just to test if you're really interested.Guy Kawasaki: I interviewed Jerry Lopez for my podcast, I know. I listened.Michael Frampton: Yeah. Great. You did a great job.Guy Kawasaki: Yeah, it's a funny story. You'll appreciate this surfing story. So this weekend we went to a surf meet in Huntington Beach. And on the sidewalk at Huntington Beach, there's, like, the Hollywood Walk of Fame. It's only the surfing Walk of Fame. And there's these, I think, brass plaques for these famous surfers. Right. So I saw Sean Tompson's, I saw Layne Beachley, and I saw Jerry Lopez, and I happen to know all three people because of my podcast. I sent them all messages and they all responded, yeah. Sean Tompson's response was, oh, they spelled my name right.Michael Frampton: Oh, cool. I interviewed Sean a while ago for the podcast and actually see quite a couple of similarities between the book he wrote in the book you wrote is in. You chose not to make it a three-page behemoth full of fluff. And it's such a good book. It's so succinct. And it's the kind of book I'd rather spend 12 hours reading a good book three times, then 12 hours reading a long book once.Guy Kawasaki: Yeah, I hear you and one of the things I think about many nonfiction books is they take 200 to 300 pages to explain one idea. Right? So like you should you should make a prototype very quick with the minimum features and get it out there and then if it doesn't succeed, bring it back and change it fast. Well, I just explained a 300-page book about minimum viable product and pivoting. Right? I mean, what else do you need to know about that concept besides what I just explained in 10s?Michael Frampton: No, I really enjoyed your book. It's definitely one I'm going to go back and reread because it's so succinct.Guy Kawasaki: I want you to know that I am a much better writer than a surfer, just FYI.Michael Frampton: Has surfing taught you anything about other aspects of your life?Guy Kawasaki: Ah, listen, I could. I can interpret almost all of life with using a surfing metaphor. Right? So, one obvious one is you can sit out there in the water looking for that perfect wave all day and never turn and paddle and if you do that, I guarantee you will not catch any waves. Same thing applies to life, right? You can be waiting for that perfect company, that perfect product, that perfect service, that perfect co-founder, that perfect VC and you could, you know, try to make this perfect thing and then that means you will never do anything. Same thing as surfing. Another analogy I would say is that, yes, you try to pick the perfect wave and you turn it the perfect time at the perfect angle and all the perfect stuff. But I think one of the things I learned about surfing is that at some point you turn and burn and then you just need to make that decision, right? Even if it's wrong. Right? You just gotta compensate. You would like to be in the barrel on the face of the wave, but guess what? You're an idiot. You're in the white water, so make the best of it right. And that's another metaphor for life, is that, you got to make decisions, right?Michael Frampton: Yeah, you just kind of describe that in the book by saying, just plant many, many seeds because you're not you don't know which one will eventually eventuate and you catch lots of waves. that's the thing a lot. I've said before on this podcast is that when you watch, a surfing movie, you've got to realize that might only be ten minutes worth of surfing that you're watching but it took a surfer a year worth five hours a day of surfing to get those ten minutes worth of surfing.Guy Kawasaki: Yea. You can apply that to almost everything in YouTube, right? So on the YouTube when they show this is a guy hitting half court shots, they shot him for five hours to get him making a half court shot twice. Right. He just goes out and does everyone like that? Yeah.Michael Frampton: Yeah.Michael Frampton: And surfing is a lot about sort of being in the right place at the right time and when you look at your career, I wonder how much of that's true. in your career?Guy Kawasaki: Oh, my career is more about being in the right place at the right time than it is about being in the right place because of my decision. Okay? I guarantee you that, I call this guys Golden touch, which is not whatever I touch turns to gold guys. Golden touch is whatever is gold guy touches.Michael Frampton: I like that.Guy Kawasaki: So, this is the equivalent of that in a surfing metaphor is sometimes and it's happened to me. Sometimes you just expect to get clobbered, right? And so you turn your back to the wave and you lean back because you're about to get clobbered. And somehow the wave catches you and you get a ride without even trying to get the ride. Yeah, I'm telling you, a lot of people join companies that they had no freaking idea what it was going to do, and they turned out to be millionaires. Like, I don't know, what's this company Google do? I don't know, they needed a facilities manager and I didn't have a job, so I went to work for Google. I was the first Google facilities manager and now come to find out, my stock is worth $50 million. Yeah. I'm so smart now. There have been waves I guarantee you, Michael. There have been waves that I caught that I didn't intend to catch.Michael Frampton: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.Michael Frampton: That happens all the time. And then you sort of, you turn up to the beach and without even knowing it's going to be good and it happens to be good. There's, there's luck involved in everything.Guy Kawasaki: Yeah.Michael Frampton: How do you define luck?Guy Kawasaki: I think luck is, getting back to seeds. Luck is planting a lot of seeds, right? I mean, you don't get lucky by staying on the sand. You get lucky by being in the water. You got to plant a lot of seeds and then, even if you're lucky, you have to take advantage of that luck. So you can't be a dumbass. You can't be a lazy schmuck and luck comes upon you and everything just is automatic. Even being lucky, you need to work hard. You need to be prepared. You need to be ready. If your board is not waxed and you're not sitting in the water. Yeah, you could be the most lucky guy in the world. You're still not going to catch the waveMichael Frampton: Yeah. And you have to be sort of looking for those opportunities as well, don't you?Michael Frampton: Yeah, I remember reading a book about luck and they did a test where they left a $20 bill sort of in the corner next to a sidewalk. And 95% of people just walk straight past. But then the person that noticed it considered themselves lucky, but really they were sort of open to or just being observant and looking for those opportunities.Guy Kawasaki: So you're saying those people saw it and didn't pick it up or they didn't see it at all?Michael Frampton: They didn't notice it? Yeah.Guy Kawasaki: Wow.Michael Frampton: That wasn't directly in the middle of the sidewalk. Obviously, everyone would see it. But, the corner of it's just sticking out and if you consider yourself a lucky person, then your peripheral vision is actually more likely to pick up on little things like that.Guy Kawasaki: I hate to tell you, but this is, it's a related story, not necessarily the same story, but I'll tell you something to this day. If I were walking down the street and I saw a penny on the ground, I would pick up the penny, I really would. I think that a penny doesn't make a lot of difference to anybody, but. Okay. But it's just the principle that you should never leave money.Michael Frampton: Yeah. No, I like that. That's a good metaphor, too. Like, if you're surfing in a crowd and a wave comes your way and it's. You probably should just take it rather than wait for the next one.Guy Kawasaki: Well, I have to say that, being deaf, I have a cochlear implant that's like, we can do this interview, but you can't wear a cochlear implant in the water. So being deaf in the water, there are some advantages to that. So like number one, Jerry Lopez says you should never be talking in the lineup. You should always be focused on surfing. Well, I hardly talk in the lineup because I cannot hear. So there's no sense talking, so that helps. And then let's just say that like every other kook in Santa Cruz, I drop in on people, okay? And then when they yell at me, I cannot hear. It doesn't bother me at all. They can yell all they want. I don't even hear.Michael Frampton: Interesting. I wonder, do you think that there could be an advantage? Because then, you know it is an advantage.Guy Kawasaki: Yeah. Because like, if I heard the person yelling at me and telling me to go f myself, then it would get in my head and I'd be pissed off and there'd be an argument. And who knows where that would lead? But now I just like, I'm deaf. I literally people have been like, jabbering at me and I said I'm deaf. I don't know what you're saying. I just paddle away. So if anybody's listening to this from Santa Cruz and you yell at me and I ignore you, that's what's happening.Michael Frampton: Do you sometimes purposely take it out, when you're doing other things to increase your focus?Guy Kawasaki: Oh, my implant?Michael Frampton: Yeah.Guy Kawasaki: No, i am blessed with a form of OCD that when I get focused on something, whether it's writing or editing or, anything like that. I can be anywhere. I can be in the middle seat of Southwest Airlines in row 35, and I can concentrate. It's not a matter of what I hear, so I never have to do that. Ijust lose touch with reality. It's the same thing when I speak, I have gone on stage with a migraine headache. I've gone on stage feeling sick but it just takes over me. And I'm just, like, in a zone. Deshaun Thompson zone.Michael Frampton: Have you always been like that or is that something that you've had to work on and foster?Guy Kawasaki: I can't remember. I think it just comes with repetition. I don't think I was born like that. I don't think anybody is born like that, but I certainly have it now.Michael Frampton: Is there a bigger picture behind that though? Like, is there a driving force that sort of allows you, to keep trudging forward?Guy Kawasaki: Well, for a while, I have four kids, so for the longest time my motivation was four tuitions. Now, as of next week, only one tuition will be in play, so that has reduced the pressure. But I guess I am just driven. I have a high need for achievement. Like this podcast, I do 52 episodes a year with no revenue,Guy Kawasaki: On paper you'd have to say, Guy, why do you do that? Why do you kill yourself doing a podcast? And I'm just driven. It's just driven by achievement. And in a sense, the same thing applies for surfing. For me, I do a lot of dry land training and stuff because I'm 60. I got to catch up, right? So I can't just get out there and automatically assume everything's going to work. So, the secret to my success in life, surfing, or to the extent that I am successful in surfing, the secret to my life is grit. I am willing to outwork anybody.Michael Frampton: There's also if you're doing dry land training, then there's a lot of podcasts as well. There's a lot of preparation that goes into that.Guy Kawasaki: Yep. Nobody can out-prep me.Michael Frampton: Oh, okay.Michael Frampton: I'm interested to know what does your dryland training for surfing look like?Guy Kawasaki: Oh, okay. I could do even more, but, I practiced pop-ups. I'm trying to constantly increase flexibility. I do more than anybody I know, but I know I could do so much more. It's just that in the last year or so, this book has just taken over my life, too. But, I'm telling you, I am going to hang ten. I'm going to hang ten and then I'm going to drop dead right after that and everything will be fine.Michael Frampton: Oh, funny.Guy Kawasaki: They're just going to get, I've seen them take dead bodies off the beach at Jax and the fire department comes and they put you in a little one of those. Is it a sleigh? What do they call it? One of those baskets. They bring the dead body up from the cliff in a basket, that's all. They're going to take me out of Jax, okay?Michael Frampton: You're die-happy then?Michael Frampton: Death on the nose. Yeah.Guy Kawasaki: He was so shocked. He hung ten. He had a stroke and died.Michael Frampton: Yeah, well.Michael Frampton: You get the right wave, get the right board. You'll get there for sure. It's a good goal.Guy Kawasaki: I have to tell you, though, it's much more likely that I, apparently hit my head on the ground and drowned then I hang ten on my last ride.Michael Frampton: Oh, I've got a feeling that you'll get there.Guy Kawasaki: Well, yeah, I hope so.Michael Frampton: So out of all you've done so many podcast episodes, like over 200, is there any is there any commonalities between all of these guests?Michael Frampton: Oh yeah.Guy Kawasaki: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in a sense, the commonality with 250 episodes reduced to. Yeah, that's 5000 pages of transcripts, so that 5000 pages of transcripts has come down to 170 pages in a book. There's a lot of commonality and the lessons of the book reflect the commonality and at the highest level, the commonality is that to be remarkable, you need to have a growth mindset. You need to be willing to pay the price and be greedy and finally, you need to be gracious to be remarkable and that just happens over and over again with those 250 guests.Michael Frampton: How do you how do you define grit?Guy Kawasaki: Grit is the ability to do something when you are not necessarily getting positive results and nor do you necessarily enjoy it, but you just are willing to pay the price.Michael Frampton: So, is there an element of faith or hope that goes with that? or delusion?Michael Frampton: In my case, it's a delusion with surfing.Guy Kawasaki: But you know what? One thing I figured out is it doesn't matter why you're gritty. It's just that you're gritty. You could be stubborn. You could be OCD, you could be delusional. You could be whatever. But as long as you just keep putting it out, that's all that matters.Michael Frampton: Okay, and then grace, how do you define grace?Guy Kawasaki: Grace is when you come to this realization that you are successful in life, and you are fortunate because there are teachers and coaches and mentors and bosses. There are people who opened the door for you and because somebody opened the door for you, you should open the door for somebody else. So it's a sense of moral obligation to the world to pay back society.Michael Frampton: Okay, how would you define grace in the surfing world?Guy Kawasaki: I could. Okay, I yeah. I could tell you some really great stories here. So at 38, there are some surfers who are really quite good. I would love to be as good as them. And they are so good that they can catch a wave and they can surf the whole face. They can catch it in front of Jack's house, and they could go all the way to like Purves or to like practically the hook, right? They can take the face the whole way, and some of them do and you know what? When you're at Jack's and there's a lot of beginners and novices, there are lots of people who are going to catch the wave and get in your way on the face and that's just the way it is at Jax. Jax is for kooks and beginners, right and so these really good surfers, they can take the whole face and they get really pissed off with people and they yell at people and they scream and they push people off and all that, and I just don't understand that and believe me, I've been one of those people who've been pushed and yelled at and what I don't understand is like, okay, if you are so freaking good, go to first or second or go to the hook, but you're just trying to be a big dog in this little shit pond.Guy Kawasaki: So like, what is your problem? and like, everybody's out there, they're just trying to have a good time, learn how to surf, catch a few waves. So like what? Why are you being such an asshole? Then it's like, Guess what? There's nobody from the WSL sitting up on the East cliff looking for people for the WSL. So I hate to tell you, I can drop in on your face and I'm not going to affect your professional surfing career, so just shut up and go to second or first. That's my attitude. They completely lack grace and I have a theory that the better you are, the more gracious you are. It's the middle ground, right? So when you're really a beginner and lousy, you don't know what the hell you're doing. When you get kind of good, that's when you figure, I'm the big dog. I can get the face, I can hang ten, I can do cutbacks and all that. But then when you get really, really good, you say, I want to help other people enjoy surfing. And I'm going to help them and coach them and encourage them. You don't yell at them. The really good surfers don't yell at you.Michael Frampton: Yeah, I love that definition and I totally agree. Yep. Joel Tudor is famous for saying that the ultimate goal is Skip Frye.Guy Kawasaki: Skip Frye was like that?Michael Frampton: He still is.Michael Frampton: He's still out there surfing every day. He's in his 80s and he just glides gracefully along on his.Guy Kawasaki: But does he yell at somebody if a kook dropped in on him? No.Michael Frampton: No, of course not.Michael Frampton: He's been surfing so long that you just wouldn't. I think sometimes surfers also, I think a graceful surfer has the sort of demeanor about them that just you would feel bad dropping in on them because they're so graceful and they're not taking every wave. Does that sort of make? Yeah.Michael Frampton: But if you're out there trying to take every wave and yelling at people, you're actually more likely to get dropped in on again and again and again. So thank you. Thank you CCTV.Guy Kawasaki: Oh, God.Michael Frampton: I think part of this is a lot of those people, they surfed, 20, 30 years ago when there just was one-tenth of the amount of people in the water, and they kind of expect it to be like that still, even though you're right, you're right. They can go for it. They can drive half an hour and go somewhere else where it's more difficult and where there are less people.Guy Kawasaki: Half an hour, they could paddle 500 yards to the right and they could be someplace else like that, but I think a lot of those people, they realize that, at Jax, they stand out, but if they went to first or second, they would be at the bottom of the pile again. Right? And they would be yelled at not doing the yelling and they cannot adjust to that.Michael Frampton: So yeah, that doesn't feed their ego.Guy Kawasaki: Yeah. The second peak is my Mavericks.Michael Frampton: That's. yup, Okay.Michael Frampton: So that's Grace, and well, I quite like how you've defined compassion as a combination of empathy and grit. I really liked that definition. Can you speak a bit more on that?Guy Kawasaki: Well, the empathy part is easy, right? I mean, when you think of compassionate people, they can empathize. They can feel what you're feeling. They can understand, they can relate right, but the difference between empathy and compassion, I think, is that you want to go from empathy to compassion, which is the higher level. It means that you not only feel for the other person, you're actually do something. So a compassionate person does something and an empathetic person just feels something and that's the difference.Michael Frampton: Yeah. That's. So it comes back to doing again.Guy Kawasaki: Yep.Michael Frampton: Yeah.Guy Kawasaki: That's a recurrent theme in my books.Michael Frampton: Yeah. And I also really liked your Ikigai. You sort of, I like how you reframed that.Michael Frampton: Sort of do what you love, right?Michael Frampton: And then be willing to improve to go push through the shit sandwich to improve, but also to not expect to get paid for it.Guy Kawasaki: Well, see, I think that, now listen. I am Japanese American, but I don't want to give you the impression that I spent 20 years studying with Buddhist monks, and I truly understand Japanese and all that because I'm just as American as Donald Trump Jr. But I'll tell you something that lots of people define Ikigai as you draw three circles, which is what you love to do, what you're good at doing, and what you can get paid at, and in the middle of those three is what your ikigai should be, because you can get paid, you like it, and you're good at it. I disagree with that definition. My definition is that Ikigai means that you are not good at it. You cannot get paid at it, and you may hate it because you're not good and not getting paid at it, but you still do it, and that for me is surfing, right? I'm not good at it. I love doing it. Sometimes I hate it and I'm never going to get paid for it. So if you're under those conditions, if you still surf every day, you could probably bet that it's your Ikigai or something you truly, truly love, because it's not because it's the money. It's not because it's easy. It's only because you love it.Michael Frampton: Yeah I really like that it's a good twist on, because I was very aware of Ikigai. I think everyone is nowadays. It's become quite part of pop culture, but it was a really good reframing. I really liked that. Allan Langer.Guy Kawasaki: The psychologist.Michael Frampton: Yes. How did she change your perspective on things?Guy Kawasaki: Okay, so Ellen Langer. She made a brilliant observation to me that we spend so much time trying to make the right decision, but what we should do is make our decisions right, and going back to that surfing analogy. So, yeah, spend your whole life or the whole session in the water trying to make the right decision, but what you should really do is turn and burn and make that decision right, which means that you can compensate by turning the board or paddling harder or softer or, popping up, fading and then going right, or who knows, right? But Ellen Langer is all about, yes, take your best shot but then make your decision, right, and I think that is a very good prescription for how to lead a remarkable life. You've got to make your decisions right.Michael Frampton: Do you mean by that, as in, once you've made a decision to accept it and sort of trust that, it is right?Guy Kawasaki: Well, I don't know about trust, but, I think the reality is that you never can make the exact perfect decision because the future is unknowable and there's so many variables. So I'm not saying that if you got married to somebody and that person is physically abusive? I'm not saying stick in the marriage and make the decision right? Okay. There are some things. There are limits to these things right, but to think that the grass is always greener and to think that, perfection lies in the next wave, not this one. I think that's suboptimal. At some point, you just got to make it right.Michael Frampton: Yeah, so it's kind of about being present really.Guy Kawasaki: Yes. Yes.Michael Frampton: Yeah, interesting. Is meditation part of your life?Guy Kawasaki: No, no. Like, Marc Benioff in his interview talked about meditation and all that. I don't have time for meditation, right? I'm a doer. I'm not a meditator. What can I say? Hmm. Maybe I should meditate more. Maybe I could hang ten.Michael Frampton: I would argue that you said yourself, earlier that even in the middle seat, in cattle class on an airplane, you have the ability to focus on something.Michael Frampton: Yes, Most people meditate in order to get more of that, I think.Guy Kawasaki: Well, then I was born with it.Michael Frampton: Yeah. You're lucky. I see the statue in the background and is Buddhism part of your life?Guy Kawasaki: No, it's just I am in a closet that I've made into a sound studio, and I wanted to have an interesting background. So, I have tried dozens of things I like. I have this lamp, I have this fake flower. I have fake flowers. I have the lamp, I have bamboo, I have vases, I've tried all kinds of stuff. Yeah, I'm constantly experimenting to get, like, you have that surfboard back there, but I don't have space for a surfboard.Michael Frampton: So you're a little bit of an interior designer.Guy Kawasaki: You know what? I don't want to tell you how many hours I have spent trying to make a good background, putting all this soundproof foam, getting this stuff here, like, it would probably be measured in days, in days.Michael Frampton: Oh, no. It's a good thing. I think it looks good and, your voice is coming across with no echo. So, well done.Guy Kawasaki: Well, I once spent a few weeks trying to make sure that the video and audio were perfectly synced because I was getting a case where the audio was about two frames behind the video, and the way you test that is you do something like you clap and you see when your hands hit, and then you look and you see if there's a spike of the clap matching that exact moment right, and it wasn't. It was two frames off, and that just freaking drove me crazy, and then finally I found something that you can add frames of delay for the video or, I don't know, vice versa, whatever it was. Yeah, I'm a little nuts that way.Michael Frampton: Oh, you got to get that sort of stuff right though I think it does matter. Is that sort of a bit of a perfectionism that you speak about there?Guy Kawasaki: A bit. I'd say there's a freaking wheelbarrow full.Michael Frampton: If there was one message that you hoped someone got out of your most recent book. What is that?Guy Kawasaki: I hope people realize that it's not about deciding you want to be remarkable. The way it works is you make a difference. You make the world a better place. And if you make the world a better place, then people will believe you are remarkable. So it's not a which came first. It's just an order. You make the world a better place. People will think you're remarkable. So the focus not on being remarkable as much as making a difference.Michael Frampton: I love that. Guy. Thank you so much. Congratulations on.Guy Kawasaki: I might go surfing a second session.Michael Frampton: Awesome.Guy Kawasaki: Thank you.Michael Frampton: I'll have links to all of, everything of Guy in the show notes. Uh, thanks for tuning in, everyone.Guy Kawasaki: All right. Thank you very much for having me. All the best to you.Michael Frampton: All right. Thank you. Guy. Awesome. Really appreciate your time. Thank you. Bye bye. Guy Kawasaki on the Surf Mastery Podcast

Welcome to Surf Mastery Podcast, where we explore the fascinating intersections of life, sports, and the pursuit of challenges. In this episode, our host Michael John Frampton sits down with Guy Kawasaki to discuss the joys and trials of picking up surfing at 60, his unique philosophy on parenting and life, and the profound lessons learned along the way. Guy Kawasaki is a speaker, avid surfer, and respected author. His notable works include The Art of the Start, Enchantment: The Art of Changing Hearts, Minds, and Actions, and Wise Guy: Lessons from a Life. He is well-known for his influential role as Apple's Chief Evangelist in the 1980s and his significant contributions to Canva. Beyond his professional achievements, his passion for surfing, which he took up in his 60s is a profound metaphor for life's lessons.Episode Highlights:Surfing at Sixty: Guy shares his inspiring journey of starting to surf at the age of 60, motivated by his children's passions. Unlike many parents who impose their hobbies on their children, Guy believes in embracing what his children love, leading him to take up surfing and hockey later in life.Parenting Philosophy: Guy discusses his approach to parenting, emphasizing the importance of supporting and engaging in his children's interests rather than directing them.Life Lessons from Surfing: Surfing has not just been a sport for Guy but a source of life lessons. He talks about the complexities and unpredictability of surfing, drawing parallels between managing waves and life's challenges.Humorous Anecdotes: From confusing directions underwater to humorous interactions in the surf community, Guy brings a light-hearted perspective to the challenges of learning to surf.Persistence and Adaptability: Guy reflects on the broader implications of persistence in surfing, comparing it to career and personal life, where adaptability and resilience are crucial.Insights on Book Writing: Discussing his concise approach to writing, Guy emphasizes the importance of distilling vast amounts of information into accessible insights, mirroring his practical approach to life.Key Quotes:"Rather than me forcing them to take up what I love, I let them determine what I should take up based on what they love.""The first time I actually caught a wave and stood up, it was magic. Where else can you get this feeling?""You can sit out there in the water looking for that perfect wave all day and never turn and paddle. The same thing applies to life."Follow Guy Kawasaki:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/guykawasaki/Website: https://guykawasaki.com/Full Show Transcript:Michael Frampton: Welcome back to the Surf Mastery podcast. I am your host, Michael Frampton, and today's guest is Guy Kawasaki. You may have heard that name. He's very famous in Silicon Valley, especially for his early role and involvement with Apple. He's gone on to do a lot of projects since then. Too many to mention in this short intro, but one of his most recent projects is a very successful 200-plus episode podcast called 'Remarkable People', and he recently released a new book called 'Think Remarkable'. Based on those interviews, and the main reason that I wanted to get him on the show is because he started surfing at 60. Yes, six zero. Started surfing at 60. So yes, Guy has a very unique perspective on beginning surfing, and I was very excited when he accepted the invite to come on the show, and he did not disappoint. So without further ado, I will fade in my conversation with Guy Kawasaki. Hello, Guy, how are you?Guy Kawasaki: I'm good. I can hear you now. Yes.Michael Frampton: Excellent. And I've got you. Right. And it's recording. It looks like all the technical stuff is out of the way.Guy Kawasaki: Don't get overconfident. The day is young.Michael Frampton: It sure is. Well, and your lust for surfing. That's also quite young. Starting at 60. My gosh, that is. That's very late in life to start surfing. What inspired you to start?Guy Kawasaki: What inspired me was that my daughter in particular became an avid and competitive surfer. And I kind of have a different parenting perspective and philosophy. I think many parents, what they do is they inadvertently or advertently force their kids to take up what they're interested in. So if you're a golfer, your kid's golf, you're a surfer, your kid's surf. If you are a, I don't know, physicist, your kids take up physics or violin or whatever. Yeah, in my family it worked differently. So rather than forcing the kids to take up what I loved, they would force me to take up what I said that wrong rather than I take up what I could speak English. English is my first language rather than me forcing them to take up what I love. I let they determine what I should take up based on what they love. And so they loved surfing and they loved hockey. So I took up hockey at 44, and I took up surfing at 60 because that's what my kids are into.Michael Frampton: Oh, I love that, you're a good dad and that's an awesome philosophy and I actually have the same philosophy my kids got into football when they were quite young, and I just started playing with them, even though I never grew up playing it. I never liked the game, but now I actually love the game and have a strong appreciation for it.Guy Kawasaki: So when you say football, you mean American oblong football or European-like round waffle? Oh okay. Okay. Soccer.Michael Frampton: Yeah.Guy Kawasaki: Because if you took up American football at a late age, it's hard to get 20, 21 other guys out there with helmets killing each other so.Michael Frampton: Oh yeah. It's a rough sport. I mean, I grew up playing rugby, so I'm no stranger to that sort of world. But, it's not something you do when you're a or certainly not something you take up when you're older. It's a brutal sport.Guy Kawasaki: So I think.Michael Frampton: That thing can be pretty brutal, too. I mean, I'm sure you've had some gnarly wipeouts in your learning curve.Guy Kawasaki: Well, listen, my sweet spot is maybe 3 to 4 at the most. Okay? Like, I am perfectly happy at 1 to 2ft. My daughter surfs at Mavericks and stuff, but that's not me, but I will tell you that, there have been times where in, like, a one-foot wave, I fall down and I lose perspective and reference and I'm like paddling, trying to get back up to the surface and I hit my head on the bottom because I was going the wrong way. I've done some very kooky things, I assure you.Michael Frampton: So I'm interested to know, like, you're a smart guy. I'm sure when you decided to start surfing, what was your first entry point like? Did you get a lesson with someone? Did you just buy a board and jump in? How did you go about it?Guy Kawasaki: Listen, when you start surfing at 60, well, one would hope that in 60 years you've acquired some kind of street smartness. So you figure out that, you're just not going to go to Costco and buy $150 board and then go out to Mavericks and decide to surf and, you know, with your goggles and your GoPro and your helmet and your zinc on your face. So the first thing I did was I took lessons. I took lessons in Hawaii, I took lessons in India, I took lessons in Santa Cruz. I took lessons at Cowell's and at Jacks. I kind of figured out that, when you start that late, you've got to accelerate the pace. And the way to accelerate the pace is to get instruction. Not by hanging out with Groms all day, trying to surf during the summer.Michael Frampton: Yeah. So you sort many different opinions on instructions as well. That's a great strategy. Was there one particular lesson that stood out to you?Guy Kawasaki: Every lesson was difficult. I started paddle surfing. I don't know why I started paddle surfing, but anyway, so I started with paddle boards and then a surf instructor here in Santa Cruz was just who was coaching my daughter at the time. He definitely established the, should I say, pecking order in surfing, and let's just say that paddle boarding is beneath prone surfing. And so it was a constant humiliation. So at one point I just got tired of being humiliated. And I said, all right, so throw away the paddle, give me a narrow board, and off I go. He for months, was pushing me into waves, because I don't know, to this day, I think the hardest thing in surfing is knowing where to sit and when to turn. It's just like I barely understand it, and when I'm out there and I'm with experienced surfers and they turn and they catch a wave that I don't even see the wave. I'm like, what are they turning for? And then not only that, they turn and they catch a wave that I barely can see. And they only paddle twice and I'm paddling like freaking 50, 60 times trying to get up there, it's a different world.Michael Frampton: Oh, it sure is. And you nailed it. I mean, no matter what level of surfer you are, getting into the wave or choosing the right wave and getting into it in the right spot, that's always the hardest part. Because once you're standing up, once you're standing up on the right part of the wave, surfing is really simple and quite easy.Guy Kawasaki: Yeah, yeah. Well, it's a mystery to me. With surfing, there are so many variables, right? I mean, there's the wave. Well, even the wave, there's the height, there's the direction, there's the speed, Are you at the peak, are you on the shoulder. That's just the wave. And then you're going to think of the wind and you got to think of the other kooks in the water and then you got to worry about, we have a ten-inch fin and it's, it's negative one tide and all the kelp is sticking out. So that's not going to work. Well I mean there's so many variables. It's such a cerebral sport.Michael Frampton: Oh yeah. Now has and if so how has surfing made your life better?Guy Kawasaki: Oh absolutely. I mean, I surf every day. In fact, today I might surf twice. And here's like a Guy Kawasaki typical kind of story. So I have Méniere's disease. Méniere's disease has three symptoms, which is, sporadic attacks of vertigo, tinnitus, which is the ringing in your ear and hearing loss and so basically, my ears are all messed up, and it's not surfer ears or anything like that because I have only been surfing ten years, so it's not from surfing. This is a pre-existing condition. So if you said to somebody if you have middle ear issues and vertigo and deafness and tinnitus and all that kind of stuff, why don't you take up ice hockey and surfing? That's the perfect sports for you. The two sports that require balance the most I took up with the bad ears, huh?Michael Frampton: Wow. So you like when someone tells you you can't do something that you see as a challenge?Guy Kawasaki: I didn't listen. I mean, people have told me that I cannot do a lot of things, and quite frankly, they were right. So it's not a matter of proving them wrong. I will just say that, like the first time I played ice hockey, and the first time I actually caught a wave and stood up, it was magic. It was like Holy shit, this is like, where else can you get this feeling? It's like magical to be standing on a wave and somehow, like, you don't have to do anything like nature is pushing you forward. In my case 12 to 15 miles an hour. I mean and you don't need a hill to do that, like skateboarding when you fall on the pavement, it's a lot different than falling in the water. So, surfing is just magic. It's the most fun I think you can have legally.Michael Frampton: I agree, and so do all of our listeners. But it's also one of the it's also one of the most challenging things that you can. I mean have you is that's a good question. Is surfing the most challenging thing you've that you do?Guy Kawasaki: It is by far the most challenging thing I have ever tried to learn to do by far because there are so many variables. There's so many external variables and then there's your internal, there's like your body weight and your body type and your hip flexibility and, it's a very complex cerebral sport and I don't think people who don't surf, they don't appreciate how difficult it is because like basketball, you run and you jump in the normal course of life, right? I mean, ice hockey is like that, too. You don't skate naturally. I mean, that's something you have to learn the fundamentals. You have to learn. So I think part of the attraction for me, for surfing is that it is so hard. If I became immediately good at it, the thrill would be gone but it's taken ten years. I like my dream. Everybody has to have a dream. Right. So my dream is to be able to take four steps and hang ten on the nose. Okay? In ten years, I'm now able to sometimes take two steps. So it's taking me five years per step. So I need another ten years to get the total of four steps. I hope I make it.Michael Frampton: Yeah. Well, Jerry Lopez says that the first 20 years of surfing is just to test if you're really interested.Guy Kawasaki: I interviewed Jerry Lopez for my podcast, I know. I listened.Michael Frampton: Yeah. Great. You did a great job.Guy Kawasaki: Yeah, it's a funny story. You'll appreciate this surfing story. So this weekend we went to a surf meet in Huntington Beach. And on the sidewalk at Huntington Beach, there's, like, the Hollywood Walk of Fame. It's only the surfing Walk of Fame. And there's these, I think, brass plaques for these famous surfers. Right. So I saw Sean Tompson's, I saw Layne Beachley, and I saw Jerry Lopez, and I happen to know all three people because of my podcast. I sent them all messages and they all responded, yeah. Sean Tompson's response was, oh, they spelled my name right.Michael Frampton: Oh, cool. I interviewed Sean a while ago for the podcast and actually see quite a couple of similarities between the book he wrote in the book you wrote is in. You chose not to make it a three-page behemoth full of fluff. And it's such a good book. It's so succinct. And it's the kind of book I'd rather spend 12 hours reading a good book three times, then 12 hours reading a long book once.Guy Kawasaki: Yeah, I hear you and one of the things I think about many nonfiction books is they take 200 to 300 pages to explain one idea. Right? So like you should you should make a prototype very quick with the minimum features and get it out there and then if it doesn't succeed, bring it back and change it fast. Well, I just explained a 300-page book about minimum viable product and pivoting. Right? I mean, what else do you need to know about that concept besides what I just explained in 10s?Michael Frampton: No, I really enjoyed your book. It's definitely one I'm going to go back and reread because it's so succinct.Guy Kawasaki: I want you to know that I am a much better writer than a surfer, just FYI.Michael Frampton: Has surfing taught you anything about other aspects of your life?Guy Kawasaki: Ah, listen, I could. I can interpret almost all of life with using a surfing metaphor. Right? So, one obvious one is you can sit out there in the water looking for that perfect wave all day and never turn and paddle and if you do that, I guarantee you will not catch any waves. Same thing applies to life, right? You can be waiting for that perfect company, that perfect product, that perfect service, that perfect co-founder, that perfect VC and you could, you know, try to make this perfect thing and then that means you will never do anything. Same thing as surfing. Another analogy I would say is that, yes, you try to pick the perfect wave and you turn it the perfect time at the perfect angle and all the perfect stuff. But I think one of the things I learned about surfing is that at some point you turn and burn and then you just need to make that decision, right? Even if it's wrong. Right? You just gotta compensate. You would like to be in the barrel on the face of the wave, but guess what? You're an idiot. You're in the white water, so make the best of it right. And that's another metaphor for life, is that, you got to make decisions, right?Michael Frampton: Yeah, you just kind of describe that in the book by saying, just plant many, many seeds because you're not you don't know which one will eventually eventuate and you catch lots of waves. that's the thing a lot. I've said before on this podcast is that when you watch, a surfing movie, you've got to realize that might only be ten minutes worth of surfing that you're watching but it took a surfer a year worth five hours a day of surfing to get those ten minutes worth of surfing.Guy Kawasaki: Yea. You can apply that to almost everything in YouTube, right? So on the YouTube when they show this is a guy hitting half court shots, they shot him for five hours to get him making a half court shot twice. Right. He just goes out and does everyone like that? Yeah.Michael Frampton: Yeah.Michael Frampton: And surfing is a lot about sort of being in the right place at the right time and when you look at your career, I wonder how much of that's true. in your career?Guy Kawasaki: Oh, my career is more about being in the right place at the right time than it is about being in the right place because of my decision. Okay? I guarantee you that, I call this guys Golden touch, which is not whatever I touch turns to gold guys. Golden touch is whatever is gold guy touches.Michael Frampton: I like that.Guy Kawasaki: So, this is the equivalent of that in a surfing metaphor is sometimes and it's happened to me. Sometimes you just expect to get clobbered, right? And so you turn your back to the wave and you lean back because you're about to get clobbered. And somehow the wave catches you and you get a ride without even trying to get the ride. Yeah, I'm telling you, a lot of people join companies that they had no freaking idea what it was going to do, and they turned out to be millionaires. Like, I don't know, what's this company Google do? I don't know, they needed a facilities manager and I didn't have a job, so I went to work for Google. I was the first Google facilities manager and now come to find out, my stock is worth $50 million. Yeah. I'm so smart now. There have been waves I guarantee you, Michael. There have been waves that I caught that I didn't intend to catch.Michael Frampton: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.Michael Frampton: That happens all the time. And then you sort of, you turn up to the beach and without even knowing it's going to be good and it happens to be good. There's, there's luck involved in everything.Guy Kawasaki: Yeah.Michael Frampton: How do you define luck?Guy Kawasaki: I think luck is, getting back to seeds. Luck is planting a lot of seeds, right? I mean, you don't get lucky by staying on the sand. You get lucky by being in the water. You got to plant a lot of seeds and then, even if you're lucky, you have to take advantage of that luck. So you can't be a dumbass. You can't be a lazy schmuck and luck comes upon you and everything just is automatic. Even being lucky, you need to work hard. You need to be prepared. You need to be ready. If your board is not waxed and you're not sitting in the water. Yeah, you could be the most lucky guy in the world. You're still not going to catch the waveMichael Frampton: Yeah. And you have to be sort of looking for those opportunities as well, don't you?Michael Frampton: Yeah, I remember reading a book about luck and they did a test where they left a $20 bill sort of in the corner next to a sidewalk. And 95% of people just walk straight past. But then the person that noticed it considered themselves lucky, but really they were sort of open to or just being observant and looking for those opportunities.Guy Kawasaki: So you're saying those people saw it and didn't pick it up or they didn't see it at all?Michael Frampton: They didn't notice it? Yeah.Guy Kawasaki: Wow.Michael Frampton: That wasn't directly in the middle of the sidewalk. Obviously, everyone would see it. But, the corner of it's just sticking out and if you consider yourself a lucky person, then your peripheral vision is actually more likely to pick up on little things like that.Guy Kawasaki: I hate to tell you, but this is, it's a related story, not necessarily the same story, but I'll tell you something to this day. If I were walking down the street and I saw a penny on the ground, I would pick up the penny, I really would. I think that a penny doesn't make a lot of difference to anybody, but. Okay. But it's just the principle that you should never leave money.Michael Frampton: Yeah. No, I like that. That's a good metaphor, too. Like, if you're surfing in a crowd and a wave comes your way and it's. You probably should just take it rather than wait for the next one.Guy Kawasaki: Well, I have to say that, being deaf, I have a cochlear implant that's like, we can do this interview, but you can't wear a cochlear implant in the water. So being deaf in the water, there are some advantages to that. So like number one, Jerry Lopez says you should never be talking in the lineup. You should always be focused on surfing. Well, I hardly talk in the lineup because I cannot hear. So there's no sense talking, so that helps. And then let's just say that like every other kook in Santa Cruz, I drop in on people, okay? And then when they yell at me, I cannot hear. It doesn't bother me at all. They can yell all they want. I don't even hear.Michael Frampton: Interesting. I wonder, do you think that there could be an advantage? Because then, you know it is an advantage.Guy Kawasaki: Yeah. Because like, if I heard the person yelling at me and telling me to go f myself, then it would get in my head and I'd be pissed off and there'd be an argument. And who knows where that would lead? But now I just like, I'm deaf. I literally people have been like, jabbering at me and I said I'm deaf. I don't know what you're saying. I just paddle away. So if anybody's listening to this from Santa Cruz and you yell at me and I ignore you, that's what's happening.Michael Frampton: Do you sometimes purposely take it out, when you're doing other things to increase your focus?Guy Kawasaki: Oh, my implant?Michael Frampton: Yeah.Guy Kawasaki: No, i am blessed with a form of OCD that when I get focused on something, whether it's writing or editing or, anything like that. I can be anywhere. I can be in the middle seat of Southwest Airlines in row 35, and I can concentrate. It's not a matter of what I hear, so I never have to do that. Ijust lose touch with reality. It's the same thing when I speak, I have gone on stage with a migraine headache. I've gone on stage feeling sick but it just takes over me. And I'm just, like, in a zone. Deshaun Thompson zone.Michael Frampton: Have you always been like that or is that something that you've had to work on and foster?Guy Kawasaki: I can't remember. I think it just comes with repetition. I don't think I was born like that. I don't think anybody is born like that, but I certainly have it now.Michael Frampton: Is there a bigger picture behind that though? Like, is there a driving force that sort of allows you, to keep trudging forward?Guy Kawasaki: Well, for a while, I have four kids, so for the longest time my motivation was four tuitions. Now, as of next week, only one tuition will be in play, so that has reduced the pressure. But I guess I am just driven. I have a high need for achievement. Like this podcast, I do 52 episodes a year with no revenue,Guy Kawasaki: On paper you'd have to say, Guy, why do you do that? Why do you kill yourself doing a podcast? And I'm just driven. It's just driven by achievement. And in a sense, the same thing applies for surfing. For me, I do a lot of dry land training and stuff because I'm 60. I got to catch up, right? So I can't just get out there and automatically assume everything's going to work. So, the secret to my success in life, surfing, or to the extent that I am successful in surfing, the secret to my life is grit. I am willing to outwork anybody.Michael Frampton: There's also if you're doing dry land training, then there's a lot of podcasts as well. There's a lot of preparation that goes into that.Guy Kawasaki: Yep. Nobody can out-prep me.Michael Frampton: Oh, okay.Michael Frampton: I'm interested to know what does your dryland training for surfing look like?Guy Kawasaki: Oh, okay. I could do even more, but, I practiced pop-ups. I'm trying to constantly increase flexibility. I do more than anybody I know, but I know I could do so much more. It's just that in the last year or so, this book has just taken over my life, too. But, I'm telling you, I am going to hang ten. I'm going to hang ten and then I'm going to drop dead right after that and everything will be fine.Michael Frampton: Oh, funny.Guy Kawasaki: They're just going to get, I've seen them take dead bodies off the beach at Jax and the fire department comes and they put you in a little one of those. Is it a sleigh? What do they call it? One of those baskets. They bring the dead body up from the cliff in a basket, that's all. They're going to take me out of Jax, okay?Michael Frampton: You're die-happy then?Michael Frampton: Death on the nose. Yeah.Guy Kawasaki: He was so shocked. He hung ten. He had a stroke and died.Michael Frampton: Yeah, well.Michael Frampton: You get the right wave, get the right board. You'll get there for sure. It's a good goal.Guy Kawasaki: I have to tell you, though, it's much more likely that I, apparently hit my head on the ground and drowned then I hang ten on my last ride.Michael Frampton: Oh, I've got a feeling that you'll get there.Guy Kawasaki: Well, yeah, I hope so.Michael Frampton: So out of all you've done so many podcast episodes, like over 200, is there any is there any commonalities between all of these guests?Michael Frampton: Oh yeah.Guy Kawasaki: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in a sense, the commonality with 250 episodes reduced to. Yeah, that's 5000 pages of transcripts, so that 5000 pages of transcripts has come down to 170 pages in a book. There's a lot of commonality and the lessons of the book reflect the commonality and at the highest level, the commonality is that to be remarkable, you need to have a growth mindset. You need to be willing to pay the price and be greedy and finally, you need to be gracious to be remarkable and that just happens over and over again with those 250 guests.Michael Frampton: How do you how do you define grit?Guy Kawasaki: Grit is the ability to do something when you are not necessarily getting positive results and nor do you necessarily enjoy it, but you just are willing to pay the price.Michael Frampton: So, is there an element of faith or hope that goes with that? or delusion?Michael Frampton: In my case, it's a delusion with surfing.Guy Kawasaki: But you know what? One thing I figured out is it doesn't matter why you're gritty. It's just that you're gritty. You could be stubborn. You could be OCD, you could be delusional. You could be whatever. But as long as you just keep putting it out, that's all that matters.Michael Frampton: Okay, and then grace, how do you define grace?Guy Kawasaki: Grace is when you come to this realization that you are successful in life, and you are fortunate because there are teachers and coaches and mentors and bosses. There are people who opened the door for you and because somebody opened the door for you, you should open the door for somebody else. So it's a sense of moral obligation to the world to pay back society.Michael Frampton: Okay, how would you define grace in the surfing world?Guy Kawasaki: I could. Okay, I yeah. I could tell you some really great stories here. So at 38, there are some surfers who are really quite good. I would love to be as good as them. And they are so good that they can catch a wave and they can surf the whole face. They can catch it in front of Jack's house, and they could go all the way to like Purves or to like practically the hook, right? They can take the face the whole way, and some of them do and you know what? When you're at Jack's and there's a lot of beginners and novices, there are lots of people who are going to catch the wave and get in your way on the face and that's just the way it is at Jax. Jax is for kooks and beginners, right and so these really good surfers, they can take the whole face and they get really pissed off with people and they yell at people and they scream and they push people off and all that, and I just don't understand that and believe me, I've been one of those people who've been pushed and yelled at and what I don't understand is like, okay, if you are so freaking good, go to first or second or go to the hook, but you're just trying to be a big dog in this little shit pond.Guy Kawasaki: So like, what is your problem? and like, everybody's out there, they're just trying to have a good time, learn how to surf, catch a few waves. So like what? Why are you being such an asshole? Then it's like, Guess what? There's nobody from the WSL sitting up on the East cliff looking for people for the WSL. So I hate to tell you, I can drop in on your face and I'm not going to affect your professional surfing career, so just shut up and go to second or first. That's my attitude. They completely lack grace and I have a theory that the better you are, the more gracious you are. It's the middle ground, right? So when you're really a beginner and lousy, you don't know what the hell you're doing. When you get kind of good, that's when you figure, I'm the big dog. I can get the face, I can hang ten, I can do cutbacks and all that. But then when you get really, really good, you say, I want to help other people enjoy surfing. And I'm going to help them and coach them and encourage them. You don't yell at them. The really good surfers don't yell at you.Michael Frampton: Yeah, I love that definition and I totally agree. Yep. Joel Tudor is famous for saying that the ultimate goal is Skip Frye.Guy Kawasaki: Skip Frye was like that?Michael Frampton: He still is.Michael Frampton: He's still out there surfing every day. He's in his 80s and he just glides gracefully along on his.Guy Kawasaki: But does he yell at somebody if a kook dropped in on him? No.Michael Frampton: No, of course not.Michael Frampton: He's been surfing so long that you just wouldn't. I think sometimes surfers also, I think a graceful surfer has the sort of demeanor about them that just you would feel bad dropping in on them because they're so graceful and they're not taking every wave. Does that sort of make? Yeah.Michael Frampton: But if you're out there trying to take every wave and yelling at people, you're actually more likely to get dropped in on again and again and again. So thank you. Thank you CCTV.Guy Kawasaki: Oh, God.Michael Frampton: I think part of this is a lot of those people, they surfed, 20, 30 years ago when there just was one-tenth of the amount of people in the water, and they kind of expect it to be like that still, even though you're right, you're right. They can go for it. They can drive half an hour and go somewhere else where it's more difficult and where there are less people.Guy Kawasaki: Half an hour, they could paddle 500 yards to the right and they could be someplace else like that, but I think a lot of those people, they realize that, at Jax, they stand out, but if they went to first or second, they would be at the bottom of the pile again. Right? And they would be yelled at not doing the yelling and they cannot adjust to that.Michael Frampton: So yeah, that doesn't feed their ego.Guy Kawasaki: Yeah. The second peak is my Mavericks.Michael Frampton: That's. yup, Okay.Michael Frampton: So that's Grace, and well, I quite like how you've defined compassion as a combination of empathy and grit. I really liked that definition. Can you speak a bit more on that?Guy Kawasaki: Well, the empathy part is easy, right? I mean, when you think of compassionate people, they can empathize. They can feel what you're feeling. They can understand, they can relate right, but the difference between empathy and compassion, I think, is that you want to go from empathy to compassion, which is the higher level. It means that you not only feel for the other person, you're actually do something. So a compassionate person does something and an empathetic person just feels something and that's the difference.Michael Frampton: Yeah. That's. So it comes back to doing again.Guy Kawasaki: Yep.Michael Frampton: Yeah.Guy Kawasaki: That's a recurrent theme in my books.Michael Frampton: Yeah. And I also really liked your Ikigai. You sort of, I like how you reframed that.Michael Frampton: Sort of do what you love, right?Michael Frampton: And then be willing to improve to go push through the shit sandwich to improve, but also to not expect to get paid for it.Guy Kawasaki: Well, see, I think that, now listen. I am Japanese American, but I don't want to give you the impression that I spent 20 years studying with Buddhist monks, and I truly understand Japanese and all that because I'm just as American as Donald Trump Jr. But I'll tell you something that lots of people define Ikigai as you draw three circles, which is what you love to do, what you're good at doing, and what you can get paid at, and in the middle of those three is what your ikigai should be, because you can get paid, you like it, and you're good at it. I disagree with that definition. My definition is that Ikigai means that you are not good at it. You cannot get paid at it, and you may hate it because you're not good and not getting paid at it, but you still do it, and that for me is surfing, right? I'm not good at it. I love doing it. Sometimes I hate it and I'm never going to get paid for it. So if you're under those conditions, if you still surf every day, you could probably bet that it's your Ikigai or something you truly, truly love, because it's not because it's the money. It's not because it's easy. It's only because you love it.Michael Frampton: Yeah I really like that it's a good twist on, because I was very aware of Ikigai. I think everyone is nowadays. It's become quite part of pop culture, but it was a really good reframing. I really liked that. Allan Langer.Guy Kawasaki: The psychologist.Michael Frampton: Yes. How did she change your perspective on things?Guy Kawasaki: Okay, so Ellen Langer. She made a brilliant observation to me that we spend so much time trying to make the right decision, but what we should do is make our decisions right, and going back to that surfing analogy. So, yeah, spend your whole life or the whole session in the water trying to make the right decision, but what you should really do is turn and burn and make that decision right, which means that you can compensate by turning the board or paddling harder or softer or, popping up, fading and then going right, or who knows, right? But Ellen Langer is all about, yes, take your best shot but then make your decision, right, and I think that is a very good prescription for how to lead a remarkable life. You've got to make your decisions right.Michael Frampton: Do you mean by that, as in, once you've made a decision to accept it and sort of trust that, it is right?Guy Kawasaki: Well, I don't know about trust, but, I think the reality is that you never can make the exact perfect decision because the future is unknowable and there's so many variables. So I'm not saying that if you got married to somebody and that person is physically abusive? I'm not saying stick in the marriage and make the decision right? Okay. There are some things. There are limits to these things right, but to think that the grass is always greener and to think that, perfection lies in the next wave, not this one. I think that's suboptimal. At some point, you just got to make it right.Michael Frampton: Yeah, so it's kind of about being present really.Guy Kawasaki: Yes. Yes.Michael Frampton: Yeah, interesting. Is meditation part of your life?Guy Kawasaki: No, no. Like, Marc Benioff in his interview talked about meditation and all that. I don't have time for meditation, right? I'm a doer. I'm not a meditator. What can I say? Hmm. Maybe I should meditate more. Maybe I could hang ten.Michael Frampton: I would argue that you said yourself, earlier that even in the middle seat, in cattle class on an airplane, you have the ability to focus on something.Michael Frampton: Yes, Most people meditate in order to get more of that, I think.Guy Kawasaki: Well, then I was born with it.Michael Frampton: Yeah. You're lucky. I see the statue in the background and is Buddhism part of your life?Guy Kawasaki: No, it's just I am in a closet that I've made into a sound studio, and I wanted to have an interesting background. So, I have tried dozens of things I like. I have this lamp, I have this fake flower. I have fake flowers. I have the lamp, I have bamboo, I have vases, I've tried all kinds of stuff. Yeah, I'm constantly experimenting to get, like, you have that surfboard back there, but I don't have space for a surfboard.Michael Frampton: So you're a little bit of an interior designer.Guy Kawasaki: You know what? I don't want to tell you how many hours I have spent trying to make a good background, putting all this soundproof foam, getting this stuff here, like, it would probably be measured in days, in days.Michael Frampton: Oh, no. It's a good thing. I think it looks good and, your voice is coming across with no echo. So, well done.Guy Kawasaki: Well, I once spent a few weeks trying to make sure that the video and audio were perfectly synced because I was getting a case where the audio was about two frames behind the video, and the way you test that is you do something like you clap and you see when your hands hit, and then you look and you see if there's a spike of the clap matching that exact moment right, and it wasn't. It was two frames off, and that just freaking drove me crazy, and then finally I found something that you can add frames of delay for the video or, I don't know, vice versa, whatever it was. Yeah, I'm a little nuts that way.Michael Frampton: Oh, you got to get that sort of stuff right though I think it does matter. Is that sort of a bit of a perfectionism that you speak about there?Guy Kawasaki: A bit. I'd say there's a freaking wheelbarrow full.Michael Frampton: If there was one message that you hoped someone got out of your most recent book. What is that?Guy Kawasaki: I hope people realize that it's not about deciding you want to be remarkable. The way it works is you make a difference. You make the world a better place. And if you make the world a better place, then people will believe you are remarkable. So it's not a which came first. It's just an order. You make the world a better place. People will think you're remarkable. So the focus not on being remarkable as much as making a difference.Michael Frampton: I love that. Guy. Thank you so much. Congratulations on.Guy Kawasaki: I might go surfing a second session.Michael Frampton: Awesome.Guy Kawasaki: Thank you.Michael Frampton: I'll have links to all of, everything of Guy in the show notes. Uh, thanks for tuning in, everyone.Guy Kawasaki: All right. Thank you very much for having me. All the best to you.Michael Frampton: All right. Thank you. Guy. Awesome. Really appreciate your time. Thank you. Bye bye.

Un podcast de Bjj Canarias. Hablamos de cómo es el proceso de recuperación de una lesión, más que la lesión en sí!!! Cómo nos afecta, qué podemos hacer al respecto, y muchas cosas más!! 0:00 Introducción 2:48 Cómo gestionamos nuestras lesiones 4:40 Joel Tudor acerca de las lesiones 6:11 Tomar el camino rápido 7:18 Tener en cuenta el futuro 8:35 Cuánto hay que arriesgar 9:14 Las nuevas generaciones 10:19 El aspecto mental 14:05 Las molestias 15:32 Entrenar con miedo 16:27 Mantenerse activo 18:07 Entrenar con lesiones 23:17 Conclusiones Notas: Pasando Guardia - SER UN ARTISTA MARCIAL TAMBIEN ES APRENDER A SANAR. https://www.pasandoguardia.com/2023/01/ser-un-artista-marcial-tambien-es-aprender-a-sanar/ GRIPS&MICS #57 - Las lesiones en el jiu jitsu brasileño desde nuestro punto de vista https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWUpWGKBKVg GRIPS&MICS #37 - ¿Cual es el mejor complemento físico para BJJ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nllRQx_KsHY GRIPS&MICS #14 - Charla con César Borrayo, la mente detrás de Pasando Guardia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sUSBtzqjrQ G&M#341 - Sergio Riquelme - Entrenando como un profesional https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcqDcRdzwEs Realizado por: Gonzalo Samijosky. Jay Kamble. Emiliano Samijosky. Canción: "12 Hours in Addis" - Nana Kwabena Patrocinadores: Island Fighters Shop https://islandfightersshop.com/ Web oficial: https://bjjcanarias.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brazilianjiujitsucanarias/ Instagram: @bjjcanarias Twitter: @bjjcanarias iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/grips-mics/id1469949945 Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/gripsmics Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3eP4LOW2TeGMOBfhm2zC2t iVoox: https://www.ivoox.com/podcast-grips-mics_sq_f1705324_1.html Patreon: https://patreon.com/bjjcanarias

In this episode, we test the knowledge of Joel Tudor and Marley Anderson, with Niall McCaughan making sure it remains civil in the studio! We go through the years from 2003 all the way to 2023 and see if the boys can dig out their Premier League knowledge and take home the title. Play along at home and let us know how many you get right via our Telegram group, or reach out to us on Twitter! If you haven't already, be sure to give us a follow and a five star rating- it helps us massively! Keep up to date with us on our socials here: Twitter: https://twitter.com/FSDPod Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sportsocialofficial/ Telegram Group: https://t.me/FootballSocialWelcome to Football Social Daily - If you haven't already, be sure to give us a follow and a five star rating- it helps us massively! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From Kamakura, Japan, Takuji Masuda has been a progenitor of surf culture since the 1980s. After traveling the surfing world and competing professionally with the Oxbow Longboard team, whose members included Joel Tudor, Duane Desoto, and others, Masuda pursued an interest in storytelling and cultural production. In the 1990s, through his reverence of surf and skate magazines and inspiration from the booming technological innovations of the era, he established his own magazine, Super X Media, published in English, Japanese, and French, influential as a cross-cultural hub for the surf-skate industry. Masuda more recently pursued filmmaking, including his documentary 2016 film Bunker77. In this episode, he sits down with show host Jamie Brisick to talk about how surfing allows you to design a lifestyle that reflects who you are, the fashion industry, art and culture in Los Angeles, Pipeline, what drew him to the Bunker Spreckels story, and the joy of making friends through surfing. 

While Chas is adrift at sea, Devon Howard fills his loafers to provide decidedly more gentle discussion about the leashless ban in Byron, a modern redefining of "priority", being indoctrinated to surf by mom, an update on Joel Tudor's indefinite suspension, and important tips for how to achieve a glorious head of hair and how to dazzle your mother and spouse for Mother's Day. Enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Monday hits hard but not quite as hard as the fall out from an Antonio Conte and Daniel Levy crisis meeting which has seen the Italian depart Tottenham Hotspurs "By mutual consent". The team discuss what's next for Spurs as they seek to appoint their 4th manager in 4 years and we wave goodbye to the 11th managerial departure of the Premier League season. There is also. a look back at Sunday's Euro24 qualifier for England vs Ukraine with potentially the most exciting Three Lions team of a generation taking control of Group C. Plus, as its Monday, Jim Salveson, Joel Tudor and Marley Anderson will be kicking off the week with a traditional Monday moan as they cast an annoying football topic into the sea. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From Harry Kane's Record-Breaking Triumph to Ronaldo vs Messi: Our Podcast is your one-stop shop for the best daily football discussion! Join our experts Jim Salveson, Joel Tudor and Marley Anderson as they dive into Harry Kane's record-breaking achievement with England and contemplate if he is indeed the best England striker... ever. But that's not all, we'll also unpack the age-old question: Should Ronaldo and Messi be constantly compared or appreciated for their unique talents? Plus, we'll briefly preview England's next game against Ukraine and give you insider insight on what to expect. Don't miss out on this episode of Football Social Daily! Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/FSDPod Join our exclusive Telegram group: https://t.me/FootballSocial Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For loggers, jiu-jitsu practitioners, and the international surfing community at large, the name Tudor rings loudly. The youngest surfer to ever win an ASP event, Joel Tudor has gone on to win world titles in 1998, 2004, and 2021. His foray into jiu-jitsu began during a hiatus from competitive surfing after the birth of his son, Tosh. He quickly progressed in the sport with a characteristically nimble athleticism and began winning competitions world-wide. A father, surfer, and fighter, the San Diego native sits down with Jamie Brisick to talk about the nature of performance in competitive surfing and jiu-jitsu alike, why he first gravitated toward logs instead of thrusters, making a name for himself in Hawaii, and his new surfboard factory.

Feargal Brennan, Niall McCaughan and Joel Tudor on Friday duty! The team wrap up 2022 with Premier League action back on the agenda as struggling West Ham host Brentford and Brendan Rodgers heads back to Liverpool. The January transfer window is set to swing open, with Jude Bellingham's future on the table alongside possible Premier League moves for Joao Felix and Memphis Depay......plus the Friday quiz! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nine months after being suspended, 3x World Longboard Champ Joel Tudor breaks his silence to detail precisely why the WSL has obfuscated their reason for his suspension, why they banned commentators from saying his name, how a fight after he burned someone at Pipe led to him becoming a BJJ World Champ, why he regrets partnering with SurfTech, and explains the role that cannabis has played in his wellness and career ambition. Enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In today's episode, we talk with East Coast and Stab High surfer Brad Flora   @doesntmatttttttter .  Brad tells us that there is a full scene of surfers in Maryland,   but he has been spending a lot of time in Indo, and striving to surf every day.  He talks about how he's a surfboard junkie because it's an addiction, but now that he shapes, it helped eliminate the problem @thrash.craft . Brad discusses how he loved Oceanside Ca. for its grittiness, but decided to leave in order to travel. And did Brad and Joel Tudor really share a barrel on a big swell at Swamis"s? Find out!Get your next board from Thrash CraftMusic from the best Surf Rapper of all time @slipperysurfaSupport the showIf you like the QuiverCast here are some ways to help us keep going! I always like Coffee! Buy me a Coffee! Become a Patreon for as little as a Buck a Month! Patreon Find Us: Website: thequivercast.com Instagram: @quiver_cast Facebook: The QuiverCast Twitter: @The_QuiverCast Sound Editing by: The Steele Collective

Feargal Brennan, Marley Anderson and Joel Tudor on Friday duty! Can England get past France in the 2022 World Cup quarter finals as Kylian Mbappe goes head-to-head with Kyle Walker? The guys give their predictions for the crunch clash in Al Khor as French football expert Jeremy Smith offers his view on Les Bleus in Qatar ahead of kick off. Will penalties be on the horizon again for Gareth Southgate? PLUS a England World Cup quarter final quiz special! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ant McGinley, Joel Tudor, and Marley Anderson review the last couple of quarter-final matches in Qatar, and as a new star emerges for Portugal, we think this may be the sunset on Ronaldo's career. And with the Premier League back in a few weeks, we cast our eye over the soon-to-be-open transfer window, plus take a peek into the England camp and see if our team can match the likes of Jack Grealish in our very own Spelling Bee. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jim Salveson is joined by a gleaming Marley Anderson and Joel Tudor as they dissect an impressive England performance, with the Three Lions dispatching Senegal and going through to the quarter finals of the World Cup where they will face France. Although Jude Bellingham is hot on everyones lips after his stunning display on Sunday, Raheem Sterling has been forced to leave the World Cup training camp and return to England. We look ahead at how this could affect Gareth Southgate's team selection going forward and what England's chances are when they go up against the reigning World Champions on Saturday. And there is of course transfer speculation with the window opening in just 26 days time, with Cody Gakpo linked with a move to Manchester United and Youri Tielemans being reportedly pursued by Barcelona! Topics: -Our Monday Moan: Raheem Sterling's unfortunate situation, VAR mayhem in Spain vs Japan and beer throwing at fan parks! -England's performance vs Senegal -Looking ahead to the big quarter final tie with France -Transfer news: Featuring Cody Gakpo, Matheus Cunha and Youri Tielemans. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After a tremendous second half, England blew away a disappointing Welsh side with great performances especially on the wing. Marcus Rashford now has as many goals as Mbappe, and Phil Foden lived up to the hype on his first World Cup start. So England top the group and head to the knockout stages to face Senegal at the weekend, but Southgate has a headache with 5 wingers having scored in the group stages, who does he pick? And after Chesney Hawkes played at half-time, which one hit wonder would you like to see inspire England in the next round? Ant McGinley, Marley Anderson and Joel Tudor attempt to answer all these questions and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Feargal Brennan, Marley Anderson and Joel Tudor on duty! Wales are fighting for World Cup survival as they take on England with Gareth Southgate's side looking to avoid disaster and confirm their last 16 spot. Kyle Walker and Jordan Henderson are tipped to start but will Southgate bring in Phil Foden and Trent Alexander-Arnold in Al Rayyan? Looking into the knockout stage crystal ball, who will they face from Group A, and will it be France in the quarter finals? The guys also react to the FA Cup Third Round draw with five all Premier League ties pulled out of the hat. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Its all about England on today's World Cup Social Daily as England prepare for their final group game against Gareth Bale's Wales! Despite an uninspiring draw vs USA in the last game, Gareth Southgate's team find themselves just needing a draw to progress - but do the team thinks its a done deal? We also take a look at how this January's transfer window might look with just 33 days until the Transfer Window opens and, as its a Monday, the lads have a bit of a Monday Moan with regular feature "Get In The Sea". Jim Salveson, Joel Tudor and Marley Anderson on duty today... get involved! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Feargal Brennan, Marley Anderson and Joel Tudor on duty to preview England's high-stakes World Cup clash with the USA. Gareth Southgate's side hammered Iran 6-2 first time out, with the USA held by Wales, but who will emerge victorious in Al Khor? Mike Rotter joins the team to give the US perspective - as the guys give their Champs and Chumps from the first round of matches in Qatar - PLUS a World Cup quiz special! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Feargal Brennan, Ian Brannan and Joel Tudor on Friday duty! Marcus Rashford saves Manchester United from an embarrassing night in Cyprus, as they scrape past Omonia Nicosia. Arsenal's back up XI made light work of a 3-0 win over Bodo/Glimt in North London and West Ham made it three wins from three in Europe as Gianluca Scamacca bagged the winner at Anderlecht. The guys also flex their quiz muscles on the latest Premier League news this week! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Joel Tudor and Steve McNorton join Ant McGinley as we contemplate yet more goals for Erling Haaland in the Champions League, and a convincing victory for Chelsea over AC Milan. Plus we preview Europa and Europa Conference action for West Ham, Arsenal and Manchester United. There's also a catch up with Tom from Who Got The Assist to help you get the most out of your fantasy football team this weekend. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Feargal Brennan, Jim Salveson and Joel Tudor on Wednesday Champions League duty! Trent Alexander-Arnold answered his critics with a superb winner in Liverpool's 2-0 Champions League win over Rangers - but does it change his England status for the World Cup? Antonio Conte's Tottenham suffered more European frustration as they drew in Frankfurt. In tonight's action, Manchester City host FC Copenhagen as Graham Potter's Chelsea welcome AC Milan to Stamford Bridge. PLUS - Any Question Answered looks at the Premier League side's European chances in 2023 and the latest on Steve Cooper's future at Nottingham Forest Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In today's Fight Club themed episode, Chas and David are overwhelmed by surf rage that's infiltrated our line ups. They unpack Joel Tudor being assaulted by the sweeper at Cardiff, the surfer being nearly drown by a local in La Jolla, the foiler who hatcheted someone at Jax Beach, Vans shot between the WSL's eyes, and You vs last week's lil' anon TikTok'r. Put up your dukes and Enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In today's show David details "The Angriest Man In Surfing" saga, Scott explains his personal run-ins with the offender, and they unpack the ethical justifications and hypocrisy inherent in laying claim to a wave. They then unpack cases for and against the Hedgehog, question why Joel Tudor was watching the Duct Tape from down the beach, and Barton's beard gets measured against those of the world's best known dictators. Enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ant McGinley is joined by Jim Salveson and Joel Tudor as they review the latest transfer activity and rumours in the EPL. Chelsea continue to be linked to a long line of players as Man United still chase that marquee signing. In the final part Ant and Joel catch up with Tom from the Who Got The Assist pod to help them pick their teams ahead of Gameweek 2. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Feargal Brennan is joined by Marley Anderson and Joel Tudor for Wednesday's podcast! Manchester United will not be pursuing a move for Marko Arnautovic this summer but could they make a swoop for Atletico Madrid striker Alvaro Morata to solve their attacking issues? Everton boss Frank Lampard has brought in Wolves skipper Conor Coady on loan at Goodison Park alongside Belgian star Amadou Onana from Lille. Plus the guys answer your social media Premier League questions! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Feargal Brennan, Marley Anderson and Joel Tudor on Friday duty as the new 2022/23 Premier League season edges ever closer. Raheem Sterling's £50m move from Manchester City to Chelsea has kicked off the Todd Boehly era at Stamford Bridge, but has Pep Guardiola made a mistake in offloading the England international? Manchester United star Marcus Rashford is determined to put his injury and form issues behind him in the months ahead as he aims to revive his career at Old Trafford. Plus, Leicester City remain the only Premier League side not to sign any new players this summer, as the pressure grows on Brendan Rodgers to freshen up the Foxes. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ant McGinley is joined by Jim Salveson and Joel Tudor as we review Paul Pogba's time at Old Trafford and new streaming documentary. There's also new signings for Brighton and Arsenal, and another England midfielder could be on his way to Manchester City. Finally, Niall McCaughan chats to Mick from sister podcast "The Koppite" about all things Liverpool. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join Football Social Daily's Jim Salveson, Niall McCaughan, Marley Anderson and Joel Tudor as they pick their winners in the annual FSD awards! Who will scoop the unsung hero prize? Will Jack Grealish win quote of the year for his comments at the Man City title parade? Who has been the biggest let down in 2021/22?! All will be decided... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In today's episode Scott attempts to stay warm below the belt, David advocates for burning kids in the line up for the sake of equality, they then discuss the inequities of the first Trans surf champ, and Joel Tudor returns to harangue the WSL with his most potent insult yet. Enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ant McGinley, Marley Anderson, and Joel Tudor look back over a night of European disappointment for both West Ham and Leicester City. David Moyes watched his side go down to just ten men against an impressive Frankfurt, and took his frustrations out on one of the ball boys, sparking memories of other times they have become the centre of attention. And some harsh refereeing and poor marking saw Leicester go out to Roma in what Jose Mourinho has rebranded the Champions League, even though it is only the third tier of European Competition. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Feargal Brennan, Ian Brannan and Joel Tudor on Thursday duty another evening of Champions League madness in Madrid. Manchester City's Champions League journey has once again come to a shuddering halt as they conceded two added time goals against Real Madrid and fell at the semi-final hurdle again. David Moyes' West Ham head to Eintracht Frankfurt for a crunch Europa League last four second leg showdown with Brendan Rodgers up against former boss Jose Mourinho as Leicester City go to Rome bidding for a place in the first Europa Conference League final. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Now part of the Yew Podcast Network From Sayulita with love. We are back with a jam packed episode covering the @vansurf @joeljitsu Duct Tape Invitational from Sayulita, Mexico. We had an amazing time and got to sit down with some of our favs @lolamignot, @grantnoble_, @saxon___wilson, @toshtudor, and many more. We also have some short takes with @mathieumarechal, @grospiron_zoe, & @finnreyesss. So sit back and listen to a little taste of what went down last week in Sayulita. See you at the red bar in a few hours.   Make sure to check us out at https://www.instagram.com/bodegaboardercrew/ Our YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4lgfJ1S0otI2xIvlyTW1Xg Collection available here http://www.bodegaboardercrewstore.com No need to bust a craze on some waves...there's always more during the next swell.   TRACKS PLAYED THIS EPISODE 1. Cold Rock a Party - MC Light 2. U.N.I.T.Y. - MC Lyte 3. Down the Line - Nice And Smooth 4. Lyrics (Remix) - Special Ed 5. Erase Racism - Ol' Burger Beats 6. Quiet Storm Remix (feat. Lil' Kim) - Mobb Deep 7. Knowledge God - Raekwon 8. Wu-Tang (feat. Method Man) - U God 9. Beat Goes On - Pete Rock 10. Be I Strong - Sizzla 11. Roof Over Mi Head - Sister Nancy 12. You're Too Bad - Jakie Opel   SHORT TAKES Les Champs du Rivage featuring Mathieu Maréchal  https://vimeo.com/694780253   Slow with ZOÉ GROSPIRON https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fOe-cIfRg4   iPhone Surf Edit with Finn Reyes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4hAL2X_JHM&t=7s     Merch available here http://www.bodegaboardercrewstore.com and follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bodegaboardercrew/     ACTION ITEMS FOR THE LGBTQ+ COMMUNITY:  https://www.teensource.org/hookup/lgbt-history-lesson https://www.thetrevorproject.org/get-involved/      

On this episode we explore one of the most consequential movements in surfing, ‘The Longboard Revolution.' From Boomers with disposable income and a taste for nostalgia, to the battle between Joel Tudor's traditionalist style vs Joey Hawkins progressive attack, and the enduring impact on lineups around the world! We trace its rise and importance. Plus, another round of Stump My Bro.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jim and Matt chat with Belal Muhammad and Joel Tudor, and recap all the action from UFC Fight Night: Lemos vs Andrade, on today's episode of UFC Unfiltered! Surfer Joel Tudor joins the show. He discusses the connection between surfing and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, shares stories about training with BJ Penn and Dominick Cruz during their fight camps, and gives his take on how Claudio Puelles was able to pull off a kneebar submission against Clay Guida at UFC Fight Night: Lemos vs Andrade.  Then, Belal Muhammad calls in after his win over Vicente Luque at UFC Fight Night: Luque vs Muhammad 2. Before giving Matt props for his video game accomplishments, Belal shares why the leadup to his rematch with Luque was more difficult than for past fights and explains why he believes Khamzat Chimaev will be his next opponent. He also helps Jim and Matt recap all the action from UFC Fight Night: Lemos vs Andrade, including Jessica Andrade's standing arm-triangle submission win in the main event, and Maycee Barber's decisive victory against Montana De La Rosa.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Feargal Brennan, Marley Anderson and Joel Tudor on Tuesday Football Social Daily duty as Manchester City prepare to host Real Madrid. Pep Guardiola is facing a string of injury concerns ahead of tonight's with fans nervously awaiting his starting XI at the Etihad Stadium. Leeds United find themselves back down in the Premier League relegation dog fight following their 0-0 Monday night draw at Crystal Palace. Plus new Manchester United boss Erik ten Hag is rumoured to be setting up Zoom calls with his new squad this week. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Feargal Brennan, Marley Anderson and Joel Tudor on Tuesday duty ahead of a busy midweek schedule of Premier League action. Manchester United go to Anfield to try and stop the Liverpool juggernaut with Jurgen Klopp's side able to go top with a win on Merseyside. Reds star Virgil van Dijk claims it is 'almost impossible' to win four major trophies in one season but we check out Liverpool's chances of rewriting history next month. Plus Manchester City reportedly agree a Premier League record breaking deal to sign Erling Haaland this summer and Arsenal captain Alexandre Lacazette claims he is considering his future options in North London. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Feargal Brennan, Marley Anderson and Joel Tudor on duty as Chelsea face a mountain to climb in their Champions League quarter final second leg at Real Madrid. Thomas Tuchel claims the Blues face an 'almost impossible' task in Madrid after losing 3-1 at Stamford Bridge last week as they aim to defend their European title. The gang also look at the latest Championship promotion picture with Fulham and Bournemouth looking odds on to seal the automatic spots but can either Nottingham Forest, Luton Town or Nottingham Forest join them in the Premier League next season? Plus the latest transfer gossip with Paul Pogba linked with PSG on a free, Manchester City chasing Spanish international Mikel Merino and Brighton keen on Danny Ings to solve their goal scoring issues. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ant McGinley, Joel Tudor and Ian Brannan look back on some of the more memorable attempts to spice up footballing draws ahead of the biggest of them all for the Qatar World Cup. In part two, they are joined by Joe Jordan-Richardson of Who Knows Wins, and he tells us how we can make our own prediction leagues with our friends, and maybe even win their money while we are at it. If you want to know more, you can download the app from all the usual places or read about it here: https://www.whoknowswins.com/how-it-works And we've crunched all the injury numbers to find which team has suffered the most absentees this season. The answer may just surprise you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the gap between the international games and the return of the Premier League, Ant McGinley, Joel Tudor and Marley Anderson find themselves discussing health, the environment and physics, all through football. Firstly prompted by a meeting happening today which is expected to lead to 5 substitutes being the norm from next season, they ask if there is any argument for keeping it at three, and if they do change, why stop there? We expect that Manchester United flying out to Australia pre-season will generate a lot of criticism in terms of a carbon footprint, but in terms of the brand, and the opportunities for fans to see their favourite teams, is this going to become a regular occurrence. And with the ball for the World Cup in Qatar being revealed, we wonder just how much science can go into a ball, and take a little nostalgia trip to discuss some of our favourites. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ant McGinley, Joel Tudor and Marley Anderson look back over a busy night of international football. First up, it was a comfortable night for the Three Lions at Wembley as they beat The Ivory Coast 3-0. Jude Bellingham was outstanding, but Harry Maguire had to contend with booing from his own fans. Elsewhere Mo Salah was blinded by laser pointers and missed a penalty as Senegal booked their place at Qatar 2022 at Egypts expense, and Portugal overcame North Macedonia thanks to the United combination of Fernandes and Ronaldo. Finally, Christian Eriksen has been making headlines again, returning to the stadium where he collapsed last summer, to show he is back to his best with another goal. Brentford will hope to seethis form continue for them in the Premier League. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Feargal Brennan, Marley Anderson and Joel Tudor on Tuesday duty previewing a huge night of international action with plenty of Premier League interest. Gareth Southgate has promised yet more changes as England take on Ivory Coast at Wembley tonight in the Three Lions final game of 2021/22. Cristiano Ronaldo, Sane Mane and Mo Salah face crucial World Cup play off action on w winner-takes-all night across the globe. Plus Barcelona's transfer interest in Leeds United star Raphinha and which Premier League sides are in danger of being picked apart if they are relegated? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Feargal Brennan, Marley Anderson and Joel Tudor on Tuesday duty to dive into some of the big talking points across the Premier League. Everton boss Frank Lampard has opted for a stick over carrot approach in his attempts to inject some life into his struggling side following their FA Cup defeat at Crystal Palace. Chelsea could be offered a full fan allocation for their semi final against Palace but Liverpool and Manchester City fans face a Wembley travel nightmare. And in transfer news, Edinson Cavani is being targeted by Inter Milan ahead of his expected exit from Old Trafford, with Paulo Dybala linked as a replacement and Newcastle eyeing Dean Henderson as their new No.1. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Chas and David catch up after this week's listener get-together/book reading. We reveal Devon Howard's take on the Joel Tudor suspension, Kai Lenny models his career on Kenny G, Parker Coffin's surf career surpasses his 'CTing brother, Matt Banting gets stiffed from a sponsor, and the boys explain why you should never let your spouse shave your back. Plus Barrel or Nah? Enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Feargal Brennan, Ian Brannan and Joel Tudor on duty to look back on a big night in the Premier League title race at Selhurst Park. Manchester City missed the chance to extend their lead at the top against Crystal Palace, as they drew 0-0 in South London, meaning Liverpool can close the gap on City to a point if they win at Arsenal tomorrow. On the other side of the city, Ralf Rangnick's Manchester United will be bidding for a place in the Champions League last 16, as they play host to Atletico Madrid. Plus the latest plans for Old Trafford potentially being demolished to make way for a new home for United and an incoming vote on the return of five substitutions to the the Premier League next season. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

San Diego board builder Stu Kenson has built boards for decades, with Rusty, for Joel Tudor, with JS, and all the while for his own SK Shapes label. Today he joins us to discuss surf culture's recent infusion of "recreationalists", the magic of channels, building Maverick's Guns, and how to surf at a high level into your mid-sixties. Enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Devon Howard joins us to discuss the Malibu Classic, the futile pursuit of earning a living on a longboard, the enigmatic charisma of Joel Tudor, and the potential for a gender inclusive division on the longboard tour. Plus, Scott sets a new and improved mantra. Enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices