Podcast appearances and mentions of Kate Marshall

7.15 am// Jordy Silverstein from Loud Jew Collective at Free Palestine RallyWe revisit a speech from the Free Palestine rally from Sunday 23rd March, where Jordy Silverstein of the Loud Jew Collective spoke about solidarity and the ways in which we in the west can fight against occupation and imperialism in our daily lives.  7.30 am// Manju from Nuclear Free Campaign, Friends of the EarthManju is one of the coordinators of the Nuclear Free Campaign with Friends of the Earth Melbourne. She joins us on the show today to discuss the upcoming event, "No to Nuclear bike ride". To find details about the bike ride event, please go to @foenuclearfree on Instagram or https://www.melbournefoe.org.au/notonuclearbikeride for more details. To see the radiation plume map, visit https://nuclearplume.au/ 7.45 am// Kate Marshall from Health Services UnionKate Marshall is the National Senior Assistant Secretary at the Health Services Union. The union has recently launched its campaign for universal reproductive health leave, calling for an additional 12 days of leave entitlement for all workers. Kate discusses the current costs to the economy, how existing leave entitlements are not sufficient, and the benefits universal reproductive health leave to workers and businesses. More information on the reproductive leave campaign here. 8.00 am// Bee from Vixen Workers Bee is a migrant sex worker, outreach peer support worker for women of cultural and linguistically diverse backgrounds for Vixen and AMSWAG (Asian Migrant Sex Worker Advisory Group) under the Scarlet Alliance. They are also a member of Justice for Our Sisters. Bee talks to us today about Operation Inglenook and the recent increase in ABF raids targeting Asian-migrant sex workers, and the upcoming action on Thursday 17th April outside 808 Bourke St. For more information, please go to @vixenworkers on Instagram. Join the email campaign to end racist immigration raids here. 8.15 am// Yolanda Waters from Divers for Climate ActionYolanda Waters is the CEO of Divers for Climate Action, a new climate advocacy organisation. Yolanda holds a PhD in marine social science and founded the community-led organisation in 2023. Divers for Climate represents the concerns of SCUBA divers, free divers, commercial divers and snorkelers in advocating for climate action and to protect our oceans. SongsSpinifex Gum - Dream Baby DreamRuby Gill - Room Full of Human Male PoliticiansKee'Ahn - Better Things

Quantum computing isn't just about a new type of computer—it's a completely new way of thinking about computing. For decades, classical computers have powered our world, but now we're at a very interesting stage in the history of computing, where we may see in our lifetimes a complete paradigm shift to quantum. Will quantum computers solve complex problems that have been out of reach for classical computers? Will they help us tackle some of the big environmental and public health challenges we face in the coming decades? And on the other side will they create new challenges, particularly when it comes to cybersecurity?  --- Episode Credits Presented by Ann O'Dea Featuring Séamus Davis, Kate Marshall, and Caterina Foti. Interviews by Ann O'Dea and Jenny Darmody Music by Concretism Produced by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shaun & Maurice⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Silicon Republic⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Part of ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Future Human⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Presenting Sponsor: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Hays

Kate Marshall is a Country Landscape Artist from Wagga Wagga NSW. She draws inspiration directly from her literal backyard, overlooking the neighbouring paddock filled with cows, a horse and rolling hills. As a mum of three extremely busy children, Kate enjoys the flexibility that being an artist has to offer, allowing her to paint at any time of day or night. It has been a much welcomed change from the classroom. Kate's work can be seen Australia wide in a number of galleries and giftware shops. The demand on Kate's work is increasingly popular as many of her previous exhibitions have been sell-outs. In this episode we talk Kates journey to this point and why it can be good to get out of your comfort zone.

Hey Bookheads, apologies for the unscheduled hiatus over the last couple of weeks. To make it up to you, we've got a frosty cool episode discussing "The Ice Palace" by Tarjei Vesaas with Kate Marshall. Topics of discussion include the novella as a form, the bewitching power of nature, and the social utility of magical thinking. As always, we hope you enjoy the discussion. You can check out Kate's excellent book, "Novels by Aliens: Weird Tales and the Twenty-First Century" here: https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/N/bo206058572.html

Kate Marshall, Country Club Plaza Council President | 7-1-24See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Kate Marshall – Client Story After 17 years working at GSK, Kate made the big bold move to join Protak Scientific Limited and is now their Technical Director. In this episode we talk about: How Kate believed so much in the technology it enabled her to take the leap to Protak. Overcoming her fear of public speaking and now it is an integral part of her role. Understanding her personality profile which enabled her to flex her leadership and communication effectively. Connect with Kate LinkedIn Kickstart your Intentional Careers Journey Take the Career Accelerator Scorecard: https://scorecard.intentional-careers.com/strategy Register for a free Intentional Careers workshop: https://intentional-careers.com/workshop/ Read The Book 'Intentional Careers for STEM Women' Connect with Hannah hannahnikeroberts.com LinkedIn: Hannah Roberts Coaching  Facebook: Dr Hannah Roberts X (Twitter) @HannahNikeR Instagram @drhannahroberts

We kick off Season 6 with Kate Marshall, friend of the show and author of the forthcoming book Novels by Aliens: Weird Tales and the Twenty-First Century. Hosts and producers Chris Holmes and Emily Hyde ask Kate about the pulpy literary history of weird tales and learn how in the 21st-century weirdness emerges as both genre and mood. The conversation roves from the weirdness of the weather to novels that long for the nonhuman and reach for alien perspectives to the genres responding to our climate crisis. Join us to hear about the novelists and critics appearing in Season 6 of Novel Dialogue and to explore our contemporary state of weird.Mentions: --Sheila Heti, Pure Colour --Roberto Bolaño on Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian --Megan Ward, Seeming Human: Artificial Intelligence and Victorian Realist Character --David Herman, Storytelling and the Sciences of Mind --Kasuo Ishiguro, Klara and the Sun --Elvia Wilk, Oval --Olga Ravn's The Employees --Amitav Ghosh, The Great Derangement: Climate Change and the Unthinkable --Colson Whitehead, Zone One Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

We kick off Season 6 with Kate Marshall, friend of the show and author of the forthcoming book Novels by Aliens: Weird Tales and the Twenty-First Century. Hosts and producers Chris Holmes and Emily Hyde ask Kate about the pulpy literary history of weird tales and learn how in the 21st-century weirdness emerges as both genre and mood. The conversation roves from the weirdness of the weather to novels that long for the nonhuman and reach for alien perspectives to the genres responding to our climate crisis. Join us to hear about the novelists and critics appearing in Season 6 of Novel Dialogue and to explore our contemporary state of weird.Mentions: --Sheila Heti, Pure Colour --Roberto Bolaño on Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian --Megan Ward, Seeming Human: Artificial Intelligence and Victorian Realist Character --David Herman, Storytelling and the Sciences of Mind --Kasuo Ishiguro, Klara and the Sun --Elvia Wilk, Oval --Olga Ravn's The Employees --Amitav Ghosh, The Great Derangement: Climate Change and the Unthinkable --Colson Whitehead, Zone One Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/literary-studies

We kick off Season 6 with Kate Marshall, friend of the show and author of the forthcoming book Novels by Aliens: Weird Tales and the Twenty-First Century. Hosts and producers Chris Holmes and Emily Hyde ask Kate about the pulpy literary history of weird tales and learn how in the 21st-century weirdness emerges as both genre and mood. The conversation roves from the weirdness of the weather to novels that long for the nonhuman and reach for alien perspectives to the genres responding to our climate crisis. Join us to hear about the novelists and critics appearing in Season 6 of Novel Dialogue and to explore our contemporary state of weird.Mentions: --Sheila Heti, Pure Colour --Roberto Bolaño on Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian --Megan Ward, Seeming Human: Artificial Intelligence and Victorian Realist Character --David Herman, Storytelling and the Sciences of Mind --Kasuo Ishiguro, Klara and the Sun --Elvia Wilk, Oval --Olga Ravn's The Employees --Amitav Ghosh, The Great Derangement: Climate Change and the Unthinkable --Colson Whitehead, Zone One Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/popular-culture

On The Job is back and with new hosts: Kleo Cruse and Emma Hartley. This episode is for all workers with a reproductive system – yes, that's you! The social stigma attached to menstruation and menopause often means workers are enduring the pain of normal bodily functions in silence. We chat to Ann-Marie Allan from the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union and Kate Marshall from the Health And Community Services Union about how reproductive leave can help ease some of that pain. Keen to have reproductive leave at your workplace? Get things kickstarted by joining your union.Support the show: https://www.onthejobpodcast.com.au/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This author of the book Radiant - Kate tells the brave story of overcoming breast cancer and how prayer and writing has helped her thrive. Here's a little more about that book: Radiant is a poetic exploration of one hopeful person's healing journey through cancer—from missed appointment, to mammogram, to diagnosis, to surgery, chemo, and radiation, through hysterectomy, genetic testing through to wholeness. Kate Marshall Flaherty's luminous poetry is raw, honest yet radiant and life-affirming. The poems are chronological, yet timeless; they are courageous and graphic, yet tenaciously realistic and positive. These poems are unflinching in their exploration of “fear, death, the whole shebang.” They vary in form from odes to eulogies, from free verse to prose poem to “notes to self,” “welcoming angels,” “lighting up the night,” voicing, blessing, questioning, raging, and eventually settling into a radiant space, of acceptance and gratitude.  

If anybody has any interest in leadership, whether that's leading a team or leading a business, then you will love this week's episode! This week's guest Kate Marshall has years and years of experience working with entrepreneurs and business leaders. In this episode, we discuss what some of the traits of the best leaders are, what it is that enables entrepreneurs to achieve what they set out to achieve and what it is they do a little bit differently. We'll also discuss high-performance leadership and the five things that underpin it, how coaching and questioning can help us bring clarity and the questions we should all be asking ourselves in the morning. A fascinating episode, enjoy!

Een gesprek met Robert Bryndza, die internationaal doorbrak met Het meisje in het ijs. We praten over Erika Foster, Kate Marshall, bedreigde misdaadjournalisten, true crime podcasts en het net verschenen deel in de Erika Foster-reeks: Fatale waarheid.

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Season three is back with an incredible guest Artist; Kate Marshall AKA 'From The Paint Shed' in Wagga Wagga NSW.  Kate is a Country Landscape Artist who draws inspiration directly from her surrounding paddocks of cows, horses and rolling hills. Kate recently took the leap from being a full-time Kinder teacher to being a full-time artist and mentor.  Listen up and get to know Kate and her artist journey.  To follow Kate on Instagram you can find her @fromthe_paintshed and @kate_marshall_mentoring and her website: www.fromthepaintshed.com.au   To Follow Abby you can find her @abbylee_artist 

Kate Marshall: Sorry for your loss...with TRE's Giles Brown

Kate Marshall Flaherty is a poet, teacher, editor and performer. She has five books of poetry, including "Reaching V," Guernica Editions and “Radiant,” Inanna Publications. She has been published in numerous Canadian and International Journals and Anthologies, CV2, Grain, Room, Saranac Review, Trinity Review and others. She was shortlisted for the 2021 Mitchel Prize foe Poetry, Arc's Poem of the Year 2019 and Exile's Gwendolyn MacEwen Poetry Prize 2018, Descant's Best Canadian Poem, the Pablo Neruda Poetry Prize, the Thomas Merton Poetry of the Sacred Prize, the Robert Frost Poetry Award and others. You can also connect with Kate on Twitter. As always, we would love to hear from you. Have you tried send me a message on the Eh Poetry Podcast page yet? If you are a poet in Canada and are interested in hearing your poem on Eh Poetry, please feel free to send me an email: jason.e.coombs[at]gmail[dot]com Eh Poetry Podcast Music by ComaStudio from Pixabay --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/ehpoetrypodcast/message

Headlines Call it out Child QPlane crash in Guangxi ProvinceIncrease in Islamophobia in "Australia" FTFJ x SS4C Family Friendly community evening We hear from Kate Marshall, Assistant State Secretary at HACSU, talking about HACSU's recent campaign for Reproductive Health and Wellbeing leave at a panel discussion about severe menstrual conditions and leave entitlements. Shannen Bethune from Liberty Victoria speaks with Phuong about participating in Liberty Victoria's Rights Advocacy Project, publishing a report on menstrual leave, ‘Policy for Equality: Menstrual Pain as a Workplace Issue', the impact of menstruation at work and what rights menstruating employees should have.  Dr Virginia Mapedzahama, critical race scholar and Director of Member Education at Diversity Council Australia (DCA), speaks with Kannagi about DCA's report 'Racism at Work' released on Monday, the importance of anti-racist actions and how whiteness is still our default. Dr Jess Ison, researcher at the Judith Lumley Centre, coordinator of the La Trobe Violence Against Women Network and Gender Studies, Criminology and Legal Studies lecturer, talks with Gen about the ‘Change the Course' report published 5 years ago, which was set out to end sexual violence and harassment at Universities.  Songs - Balance ton quoi - Angèle- Jealous - Camp Cope  

Het detectivebureau van Kate Marshall gaat eindelijk echt van start als zij en haar partner, Tristan Harper, worden ingehuurd voor hun eerste grote zaak.Uitgegeven door BoekerijSpreker(s): Irma Hartog

01:56 - Episode Intro: Who is Casey Watts (https://twitter.com/heycaseywattsup)? * Happy and Effective (https://www.happyandeffective.com/) 02:25 - “Gay” vs “Queer” * Cultural vs Sexual * Black vs black * Deaf vs deaf 06:11 - Pronoun Usage & Normalization * Greater Than Code Episode 266: Words Carry Power – Approaching Inclusive Language with Kate Marshall (https://www.greaterthancode.com/words-carry-power-approaching-inclusive-language) * Spectrum of Allyship (https://aninjusticemag.com/the-differences-between-allies-accomplices-co-conspirators-may-surprise-you-d3fc7fe29c?gi=decb57b48447) * Ambiguous “They/Them” 16:36 - Asking Questions & Sharing * Ring Theory (https://www.everhomehealthcare.com/post/ring-theory-and-saying-the-right-thing-in-2020) * Don't Assume * Take Workshops * Find Support * Set Boundaries * Overgeneralization * Do Your Own Research – Google Incognito (https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/95464?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop) 28:16 - Effective Allyship * Reactive vs Proactive * Parenting * Calling Out Rude Behavior – “Rude!” * Overcoming Discomfort; Getting Comfortable with Being Uncomfortable * Recognizing Past Mistakes: Being Reflective * Stratejoy (https://stratejoy.com/) * Celebrate Progress * Apologize and Move On * Microaggressions: Prevention & Recovery (https://www.happyandeffective.com/workshops/list/avoiding-microaggressions) * happyandeffective.com/updates (https://www.happyandeffective.com/updates) Reflections: Mannah: The people on this show are all willing to start and have conversations. Casey: I will make mistakes. I will find more support. Mandy: Reflection is always a work in progress. It's never done. Keep doing the work. People are always evolving and changing. This episode was brought to you by @therubyrep (https://twitter.com/therubyrep) of DevReps, LLC (http://www.devreps.com/). To pledge your support and to join our awesome Slack community, visit patreon.com/greaterthancode (https://www.patreon.com/greaterthancode) To make a one-time donation so that we can continue to bring you more content and transcripts like this, please do so at paypal.me/devreps (https://www.paypal.me/devreps). You will also get an invitation to our Slack community this way as well. Transcript: PRE-ROLL: Software is broken, but it can be fixed. Test Double's superpower is improving how the world builds software by building both great software and great teams. And you can help! Test Double is hiring empathetic senior software engineers and DevOps engineers. We work in Ruby, JavaScript, Elixir and a lot more. Test Double trusts developers with autonomy and flexibility at a remote, 100% employee-owned software consulting agency. Looking for more challenges? Enjoy lots of variety while working with the best teams in tech as a developer consultant at Test Double. Find out more and check out remote openings at link.testdouble.com/greater. That's link.testdouble.com/greater. CASEY: Hello, and welcome to Greater Than Code, Episode 268. I'm Casey, and I'm here with co-host, Mannah. MANNAH: How's it going? I'm Mannah and I'm here with Mandy Moore. MANDY: Hey, everybody. It's Mandy and today, I'm excited because we are doing a panelist only episode. So our host and panelist, beloved Casey Watts, is going to take us through Casey did a LGBTQ panel for Women Who Code Philly a couple weeks ago and it went really great. He offered to do a show to talk about the subject in more depth on the show. So we're here to do that today. So without further ado, why don't you give us a little intro, Casey? CASEY: Sure. I'm going to start by talking about who I am a little bit and why I'm comfortable talking about this kind of stuff. My name's Casey, I'm a gay man, or a queer man. We can get into the difference between gay and queer [chuckles] in the episode. I live in D.C. and I really like my community groups that I'm in to be super inclusive, inclusive of people of all kinds of backgrounds and all the letters in LGBTQIA especially. MANDY: That's awesome. So right there, you just gave us an in. Can we get into the difference between gay and queer? CASEY: Yeah. I love it. People lately use the term “queer” as an umbrella term that represents all the letters in LGBTQIA especially younger people are comfortable with that term, but it is reclaimed. Older people, it used to be a slur and so, like my cousin, for example, who's older than me hesitates to use the word queer on me because she knows that it used to be used to hurt people. But queer people like this as an umbrella term now because it is just saying we're not the norm in gender identity, or sexual, romantic orientation, that kind of stuff. We're not the norm. We're something else. Don't assume that we're the norm and then it's not describing all the little nuances of it. It's just like the umbrella term. So I'm definitely queer and I'm gay. Another distinction that I really like to make and that's cultural versus specifically what the term means. So I'm gay and that I'm attracted to other men, but I don't hang out at gay bars and watch RuPaul's Drag Race like the mainstream gay man does in media and in life. I know a lot of people who love that I'm not comfortable there. I don't like it. I think drag queens are fun I guess, but they're also really catty and mean and I don't like that, and I don't want that to rub off on me personally. Instead, I hang out in groups like the queer marching band which has a ton of lesbian women, bisexual, biromantic people, asexual people, intersex people, and trans people and has all the letters in LGBTQIA and I love that inclusive community. That's the kind of group I like to be in. Some of the gay men there talk about RuPaul's Drag Race, but it's like a minority of that large group. I love being in the super inclusive cultures. So I'm culturally queer, but I'm sexually romantically gay. So depending on what we're talking about, the one is more important than the other. I have a story for this. Before the pandemic, I got a haircut at a gay barber shop. It's gay because D.C. has a lot of gay people and there's a gym above the barber shop that's pretty explicitly gay. They cater to gay people. They have rainbows everywhere. I got my hair cut and this woman just kept making RuPaul's Drag Race references to me that I didn't get, I don't get it. I don't know what she's saying, but I know the shape of it and I told her I don't like that and I'm not interested in it. Please stop. She didn't because she was assuming I'm culturally gay, like most of her clientele and it was really annoying and she wasn't seeing me, or listening to what I was saying and I was not seen. But she's right I was gay, but I'm not gay culturally in that way. Does that make sense? That's kind of a complex idea to throw out at the beginning of the episode here. A lot of people take some time to get your head around the cultural versus sexual terms. MANNAH: Yeah. That is interesting especially because with so many identities, I guess that's true for every identity where there's a cultural element and then there's some other thing. For instance, I'm a Black man and no matter where I hang out, or what I'm interested in, I'll always be a Black man, but there is associated with both masculinity and specifically, Black masculinity. CASEY: Yeah, and I like the – lately, I've been seeing lowercase B black to mean a description of your skin color and uppercase B Black to mean a description of the culture and I like that distinction a lot. It's visual. Deaf people have been using that for years. My aunt's deaf so my family has a deaf culture. I'm a little bit deaf culture myself just by proxy, but I'm not deaf. I'm capital D Deaf culturally in amount. Her daughter, who she raised, my deaf aunt, is culturally Deaf way, way more than the average person, but not fully because she's not deaf herself. So there's all spectrum here of cultural to experiencing the phenomenon and I was happy to see, on Twitter at least, a lot of people are reclaiming capital B black. And for me, it's capital Q Queer and lowercase G gay. That's how I distinguish into my head—culturally queer and I'm sexually gay. MANNAH: So one of the things, I've been thinking about this since our intro and for those of you listening, our intro is scripted and as simple as it was like, “Hey, my name is Mannah,” and passing it off to Mandy. Generally, when I introduce myself – I just started a new job. I introduced myself with my pronouns, he/him, because I think it's more inclusive and I want to model that behavior and make sure that people around me are comfortable if they want to share their pronouns. I do think that this is championed by the queer community and as a member of that community, I'd just love to hear your take on people being more explicit with that aspect of their identity. CASEY: I love the segment. Pronouns is a huge, huge topic in this space lately especially. I like to start from here, especially with older audiences that we used to have mister and miss in our signatures and in the way we address letters and emails, and that's gone away. So including pronouns is a lot like just saying mister, or miss, but we've dropped the formality. I'm glad to be gone with the formality, but we still need to know which pronouns to use and it's nice to have that upfront. I like and appreciate it. I try to include pronouns when I remember it and when I'm in spaces where that's a norm. I like to follow that for sure every time there. But I'm not always the first person to introduce it. Like if I was giving a talk and there were 30 older white men in the audience who've never heard of this idea, I might not start with he/him because I want to meet them where they're at and bring them to the point where they get it. So I'm not always a frontrunner of this idea, but I love to support it, I love to push it forward, and help people understand it and get on board. It's like there's different stages of allyship, I guess you could say and I really like helping people get from a further backstage to a middle stage because I don't think enough people are in that space and there are plenty of people getting people who are in the middle stage to the more proactive stage. Like, “We should use pronouns!” You hear that all the time in spaces I'm in. It's possible I can get pushback for that kind of thing, like even meeting people where they're at, and that frustrates because I want to be effective. I don't want to just signal that I'm very progressive and doing the right things. I want to actually be effective. I give workshops on this kind of thing, too. That's where we're coming from for the today's talk. MANDY: I think on the last show, it might have been Kate Marshall who said that normalizing pronouns is really important to do, but not just when there's an obvious person in the room who you're not sure. Maybe we even started off on the wrong foot on the show by not saying, “Hi, I'm Mandy, my pronouns are she and her.” Just adding that in to normalize it would be a really good step, I think. CASEY: Yeah, love it. Here's where I like to come with my role. Say, “Plus one, I love that idea. Let's do it now.” I like to activate the idea once it's in the room, but it takes someone brave to bring it up in the first place and it's a different amount of social energy, maybe in a different head space you have to be in to be that first person. But being the second is also very important and I like to help people understand that, too. If you're the second person, that's still being helpful. Maybe you can become the first person in some groups, but I want to celebrate that you're the second person even. That's great. Yeah, I think that's a good change we could do. MANNAH: You mentioned allyship and I think that that is why am so proactive in introducing myself with pronouns because I do present as a traditional man. Well, maybe not traditional, but I present as a man and I have the ability to deal with some of that pushback. We talk about superpowers on the show. I feel like one of my superpowers is I am willing to engage in those conversations, even if they are difficult. CASEY: Mm hm. MANNAH: So I can use my powers for good by starting that conversation perhaps, or starting to build that norm. Whether, or not I am doing it for anyone in particular, it is important for me to do it wherever we are. So I think that just wherever we can make spaces more inclusive with the way we can conduct ourselves and our language, it's important. CASEY: I have a framework to share that's kind of related to that. So there's a spectrum of allyship—that's my title for it anyway—that goes from an active detractor all the way over to an active supporter of an idea. In this case, the active supporter would be getting pronouns to happen in a space where they're not happening. And then in the middle, maybe you're neutral, not doing anything. In the middle on either side, there's a passive – like you're not doing anything, but you kind of support the idea. You're kind of against the idea, but you're not taking any action. And then on the active part, there's even a split between and being proactive and reactive. So for pronouns, I guess the way I'm self-describing here is I'm a reactive pronoun person. For better, or worse, that's where I'm at on that spectrum and that's where I like to help move things along. So I can talk to people who are more maybe passively against the idea because I'm not so far on the right. I like to use the spectrum for another purpose, which is moving people from one space to the next is valuable and often invisible. If you can get someone to be loudly against pronouns to just be quiet, that's a step forward. You've persuaded them a little bit to go in that direction, or if they're there to neutral, or neutral to passively supportive, but quiet about it. A lot of this kind of progress with people who aren't active supporters is invisible and that can be really frustrating for people; it feels like you're not making any progress. So for people who are allies and want to be allies, there's a step forward you can do for yourself, which is getting yourself from being reactive to being proactive. But you're not just helping the people in the room, but helping people who could be in the room, or might be in the future. Reactive to proactive. MANDY: I've been doing that a lot with just actually referring to everybody as they/them no matter if I already know how they present, or not. That, to me, is just the most inclusive way to refer to people in general. CASEY: Yeah, that's generally a safe practice, but there are people who don't want to be called they/them. MANDY: Hmm. CASEY: For example, I have some friends who… Let's imagine a trans man who wants to be considered he/him, they are very invested in this and they want the – If you keep calling them, they/them, even if they correct you, “He/him is my pronouns,” then they're going to be upset about that, pf course. But it is a safe, starting point because the ambiguous they is just generally, it's good grammar, the APA endorses it even. You're allowed to use they when it's ambiguous by grammar rules. But if you know someone's pronouns and it isn't they/them, it's generally better to use those because they prefer it. MANDY: Yeah. That's what I meant. If somebody says to me, “I would prefer you call me she/her, he/him.: But when I'm first, like if I'm even talking to say my dad and I'm talking about work, I would be like, “I have a friend, they did this.” CASEY: Yeah. That's ambiguous day and that's perfectly appropriate there. MANDY: Yeah. But as far as like addressing somebody on a regular basis who wants to be referred to as one, or the other, I have no problem doing that. I've just been training myself to use ambiguous terms because I see and I think it's wonderful. My daughter's 12 and almost all of her friends are non-binary. So when I meet them, or I'm talking about her friends for me, it's just more, I don't want to say easy. I don't want to make it sound like I'm doing it, like taking the easy way out, but I'll just be like, do the they/them stuff to have the conversation and then once I find out more, we can transfer over to the he/him, she/her as I'm corrected, or being asked to do one, or the other. CASEY: Right, right. It's definitely safer to assume you don't know than to assume someone's gender based on how they looked, for sure and the ambiguous they is perfect for that. Even for people who use they/them as pronouns, there's a switch in my head at least—you probably feel it, too—from ambiguous to specific. Like now I know they/them is their pronouns. MANDY: Yeah. I've had no problem. When my daughter has brought new people over, who I know are non-binary, I will say to them even if I already know, because she's told me, I'll be like, “What pronouns do you prefer?” And every single time these are 12-year-olds, 13-year-olds, they're like, “Thank you for asking.” CASEY: Yeah. MANDY: Because a lot of times, I feel it's not very accepted yet. So when I hear, or when they hear me say, “How would you like me to refer to you?” They smile so big. CASEY: Yeah, you're treating them like the individual person they are. MANDY: Exactly, and they're like, “Thank you,” and now I'm known as the cool mom. [laughs] CASEY: Ah. Great. [laughs] Yeah. If I could snap my fingers and change a behavior of mine, that would be one. I would consider everyone's pronouns unknown until they tell me and it also varies by context. I don't even want to trust secondhand. Like if Mandy, you said he for Mannah before I met him, I wouldn't assume that's his pronouns. If maybe you are assuming, or maybe you heard it from someone and they were assuming, or maybe based on context, it's different. I want to hear it from the person, ideally. MANDY: Yes. CASEY: I also don't necessarily want to go around asking for pronouns actively all the time. I'd rather us offer them upfront, or have them in our usernames, or something so it's less verbiage in the air about it. I like it to be normalized. We don't have to think about it. That's a dream state. But for now, I'd rather ask people directly than assume anything. But it's a hard habit because I've been trained from school and everything, since a young age, to assume someone's gender and not to use they at first. That's what we've been trained and I love this trend of untraining that. Ambiguous they is accepted and we should start with that. MANDY: I love seeing people proactively put pronouns in their Zoom profiles, or their Zoom names and at conferences, I love the conferences having badges, or stickers. CASEY: Yeah. MANDY: I love that. CASEY: It's helpful. MANNAH: I want to change directions slightly and go back to something you said about the spectrum and how we move people – I don't remember the exact words you used, the two polar opposites. CASEY: Yeah. MANNAH: But how to move people towards a more inclusive mindset, let's say and wherever you are on that spectrum, you might not know how to move forward and the way to kind of deal with that, you might have questions. I just want to hear from you how you would like to be approached with questions around how do you feel about pronouns, or whatever it might be relating to your culture, or your, I guess, I'm going to say sexual identity. CASEY: Yeah. MANNAH: People are unsure how can they approach you with questions in a way that's respectful and a way that will allow them to learn more about you? CASEY: Good question. I feel like you're reading my mind a bit here. I want to start with another framework that you might have heard of. It's the circles of grief Ring Theory. Like if someone just lost their parent, then you need to pour support into that person who's closest to them and if you're outside like a more distant family member, or a friend, pour support in and then the grief gets stumped out. That's the framework, generally. So there's a lot of rings. People who are closer to it are affected more directly and people who are outside are affected more indirectly. That applies to asking people personal things, too. So I'm directly affected by being queer and I've been discriminated against and people have said bad things to me before. To ask me about it and to bring up those feelings could harm me in some way so you can't just assume everybody's comfortable talking about their experience. Like, “Tell me about how you feel about your dead mother.” It wouldn't be sensitive either because they're experiencing the pain directly, but sometimes people do want to talk about that and they're comfortable, they processed it, and they want to help spread the word. So I'm one of those people; you can ask me anything. Even if you don't know me, you can DM me on Twitter. Anyone listening, ask me a question about queer things. I'll point you to a resource, or answer it myself. I'm offering because I'm comfortable at this point. But a lot of people aren't and, in that case, you could ask if someone's comfortable, that's not a bad idea, or you could ask people who are in further circles out. Like you don't need to ask a queer person about queer experiences if you can read about it in an article online, or watch a documentary, or talk to friends who have other queer friends and they know some things about it. It's not as good as secondhand experience hearing from someone with firsthand experience, but you're causing less harm by making the ideas come up again. So you have a range of ways you can find out more about what it's like to be queer and I encourage you to think about all the different ways you can learn about a thing. You don't have to depend on the person who has [chuckles] this negative experience to do it. Another way you can learn more is by doing workshops, like the ones that I facilitate. So I was thrilled to have a good audience at Women Who Code Philly, actively asking question and learning things, and that's a space where you're supposed to ask questions and learn. I've heard of some people have peers they can talk to like peer support; people you can go to, to ask questions like that. Like my cousin asks me questions sometimes about her kids and that's like peers. Some companies actually have support groups like a weekly, or monthly meeting for people in the company to ask these questions that they have [laughs] and they don't know where to ask them and they can all learn from it. I've seen in some Slacks, there's a Diversity 101 channel in one of the Slacks I'm in people can ask questions like when would you, or would you not use this word? That's a space dedicated to asking questions like that and if someone like me wants to go in and contribute, I can answer questions there, but I don't have to. I know I'm welcome to, and I know I'm not pressured to, and that's a great middle ground and that's a lot of options. You've got to figure out what works for you, who you have around, who you can offer the support to, and who you can ask for the support from. Both directions. MANDY: It's great to have someone like you offering to do that and take on because it is of emotional labor and sometimes when people are curious, I know for me as being bisexual, some people are just like trying to – they're asking out of curiosity, but it's more like, “Give me the dirty details,” or something like that. CASEY: Yeah. MANDY: Sometimes it's like, “We just want to know because I don't – so I want to know what it's like for you,” and I'm like, “I'm not going to share just because –” right now, I am in a monogamous heterosexual relationship. Normally, if I was in a single state, a lot of people just try to ask questions that sometimes can be, I find it more inappropriate and they want to know because they're interested in the salacious details, or something like that. CASEY: Right. MANDY: That rubs me the wrong way and I can usually tell when somebody is asking, because they're genuine, or not. CASEY: There's a big difference between asking to get to know you as a person in the context you're in with the background you have versus asking for salacious gossip. [laughs] MANDY: Yeah. CASEY: And the one is much more kind than the other. It sounds like you've done a good job setting boundaries in these situations saying, “That's not appropriate. I'm not answering that. Sorry about it,” or something like that. MANNAH: Not sorry. CASEY: Not sorry. MANDY: Well, in the same token, it's something that bothers me, too because I feel like a lot of times, I just don't even tell people that I'm bisexual. CASEY: Yeah. MANDY: Because it's easier to not answer the questions because once you open that can of worms, then everybody comes at you and wants to know this and wants to know details. “Have you ever done this?” Or, “Have you ever done that?” It rubs me the wrong way again. CASEY: Right. MANDY: So sometimes I feel almost resentful. I feel resentful that I can't be my full self because it causes people to just ask and the whole conversation, or the whole time I spend with them is focused on this one thing and it's like for me, it's just not a big deal. CASEY: Right, right, right. Like on my Twitter profile—I like to use this as an example—I list out like 10, 15 things about myself on my Twitter profile and there is one little rainbow flag emoji in there at the end and I'd rather you talk about any of the other things probably. I'm willing to share that I'm queer and rainbow I affiliate with, but so much more to me, [chuckles] I'd rather you learn about me before that. MANDY: Yeah. CASEY: But it's the newest, novelist thing to those people who don't otherwise get exposed to it. They fixate on it sometimes and that, they might not realize, can be harmful. It can hurt people like you. It does hurt people. [chuckles] MANDY: It absolutely does. It makes me uncomfortable. So it's not an aspect that I talk about much, especially living in rural/suburban Pennsylvania. It's something that I just kind of, aside from my internet friends and tech community, that a lot of people still don't know about me. CASEY: Right. I can imagine not wanting to share. I used to not share my sexuality either in a lot of contexts and still when I go somewhere like the south, if I go to a place that has more bigotry around, I'm not holding my partner's hand there. I might get attacked even, that happens still in certain environments, they don't get it. Okay, I want to acknowledge that people asking these questions might have good intentions and they're making a mistake and I want to explain what I think the mistake is. MANDY: Yes. CASEY: People want to be treated as individuals, but you can go too far in that extreme and treat someone like an individual and ignore their background. Like it doesn't matter that you've been queer. It doesn't matter that you're Black. It doesn't matter, I'm just going to treat you like an individual. Ignoring all this background is its own kind of overgeneralization in a way is ignoring that background and context. And then there's another way you can do an exaggeration, which is only focusing on that background in context and ignoring the person's individual traits and their individual experiences. The best thing to do is to treat them like an individual who has this context and background putting them both together. So maybe these people are trying to understand you better by understanding this context. Maybe—I'm being very generous— [chuckles] some of these people are probably not this, but some people honestly want to know more about your context to understand you and that's thoughtful. They're just going about it in a way that's not the most helpful, or kind to you and I appreciate those people. But then there are other people who want to use the background and context to overgeneralize and just treat you as a member of this group, a token member, and that is a problem, too. So it's like two ingredients and if you put them together, that's the best and a lot of people focus on one, or the other too much. The individual experience versus the group background context experience. MANNAH: Yeah. That was really well put. I do think that as I said earlier, I'm someone who is very willing to have these. However, the downside of that is that becomes who you're and instead of the entire human being and the other – to take it a step further, some people are uncomfortable with that identity, or uncomfortable thinking about those things. Think about the discrimination that you might face and rather than confront it, or address it, they would rather just not deal with you, or limit their interact. CASEY: Right, yeah. MANNAH: So this is not a question for Casey, this is just something to the group. How can we navigate that and wanting to being willing to share of ourselves, but recognizing that there is some social backlash that can come from that? CASEY: I think my number one thing I want allies to understand is they can support each other in being allies and it can take work to be comfortable talking to each other, to support each other. You don't have to just depend on the queer people to learn queer about things. If one of you learns and one ally learns, they can teach another ally the concept, or the idea, or share how to navigate it. I did a Twitter poll for this, actually. Not a huge sample size, but still. A lot of people only have 1 to 3 people they can talk to about things like this. That's very few and they might not cover all the different situations. So that's my number one thing to help people navigate it is get so support, find support, be support for other people and you'll get support in return for that, too. That's your homework. Everyone, write this down. Find 10 people you can talk to about inclusivity related topics, 10 people. MANDY: And Google exists for a reason. So always, when things come up, I like to Google and I've gotten push back about that several times. “Well, I don't want to put that stuff into my search engine because then all of a sudden, I start getting gay targeted ads,” or something. CASEY: That's true. That's a real concern. [overtalk] MANDY: And I'm, “It's not –” Well, hello, incognito mode. CASEY: Right. MANDY: Thank you, everyone. That's a thing. Use it. [laughs] CASEY: Yeah, and you don't have to feel icky using incognito mode. You can use it because you don't want to ads tracking you. MANDY: Exactly. CASEY: Some people use it for everything. They never use the regular browser mode because they don't want the tracking. It's work to learn things about other people and so, that's why I like to focus on the support part. If you get support from people, maybe you can both be looking up stuff and sharing articles with each other, and that's really multiplying the effects here. MANDY: Absolutely. MANNAH: So we started homework for allies. I think now it might be a good time to talk about what makes good ally. We talked a little bit about how it can feel voyeuristic. Mandy, you talked about how people asking questions can sometimes feel a little picky and we talked about some better ways to asking questions. But are there any other ways that either both, all of us would like to see people be more effective ally? CASEY: Yeah. I want to call back to an earlier point. I want to see more people switch from being reactive to being proactive. To being the first voice. Me included, honestly. Whenever you can get away with it and whatever helps you be proactive, do those things, which might be the support thing I keep talking about. Getting support to be more proactive, becoming accountable to people. If you're already an ally, I'm assuming you're being reactively supportive some of the times. A lot of the people I talk to, who consider themselves allies, would agree, but taking that next step. And there's a different spectrum for each issue, like pronouns is one. Pronouns being shared in meetings. How proactive, or reactive are you for that? I don't even know. There are thousands of things [chuckles] that you can do to become more proactive. MANDY: I would like to say for allies, teaching our children love and not hate. I see a lot of nastiness coming from children and that comes from parents. It's really sad to see sometimes the amount of people who don't – they just spew hate and they're like, “I'm not referring to this person as a pronoun.” Like, “They/them, no. They're a this, or they're –” It saddens me to no end when you are around children to model nasty behavior and I think if you are not the person doing that yourself and you're around it, and you see somebody say something and say, “That's not okay, don't. Do you understand how you sound? Do you understand what you're saying? Do you understand that you're having an effect on everyone around you by giving your nasty opinions and that kind of thing?” CASEY: Yeah. I've got a one word, one liner thing that I like to pull out and I'm proud every time I say it. “Rude,” and I can walk away. It can happen in the grocery store. Someone can say something. It doesn't matter the nuance, what's going on and how I might explain it to them in fuller language. I can at least pull that one word out, rude, and walk away and they are called out for it. I'm proud whenever I can call someone out. MANDY: Yeah. CASEY: I don't always do it, though. The stakes can seem high and it takes practice. So this is homework, too. If you see someone and saying something hurtful to another person, it's your responsibility if you dare claim this to defend the other person and call the person rude, or however you would say the same thing. Say something. MANDY: Yeah, say something. MANNAH: I think that that can be really hard for allies. CASEY: Yeah. MANNAH: And if I had one piece of advice for allies, it would be that sometimes allyship is uncomfortable and that is something that you have to navigate. You can't pick and choose when you're going to… Well, that's not true. There's some discretion, but recognize that being a part-time ally, or a tourist in that space has an effect on people and not confronting your own insecurities, or your own feelings limits your effectiveness in allyship. CASEY: Yeah. It can be a deep question to ask yourself what made me hesitate that one time and what can I do to not hesitate helping next time? You can journal about it. You can talk to friends about it. You can think about it. Doing something more than thinking is definitely more helpful, though. Thinking alone is not the most powerful tool you have to change your own behavior. Yeah, it is uncomfortable. One thing that helps me speak up is instead of focusing on my discomfort, which is natural and I do it, for sure, I try to focus on the discomfort of the other person, or the person directly affected by this and I really want to help that person feel seen, protected, heard, defended. If you think about how they're feeling even more, that's very motivating for me and honestly, it helps in some ways that I am a queer man, that I have been discriminated against and people have been hateful toward me that I can relate when other people get similar experiences. If you haven't had experiences like that, it might be hard to rally up the empathy for it. But I'm sure you have something like that in your background, or if not, you know people who've been affected and that can be fuel for you, too. People you care about telling you stories like this and it is uncomfortable. [chuckles] Getting comfortable with that discomfort is critical here. MANNAH: One of the things that is very uncomfortable is, I think that as we go through life, we all grow is being reflective on the times when maybe we're not inclusive, or maybe were insensitive. At least being able to those situations, I feel like is a great first step. CASEY: Mm hm. MANNAH: Saying, “Hey, I said this about this group of people,” or “I use this word.” Maybe you didn't fully know what it meant and recognized the impact at the time, but being able to go back and be reflective about your behavior, I feel like is a very important skill to help become a more well-rounded individual. CASEY: Yeah. Agreed. And it's a practice. You have to do it. The more you do it, the easier it gets to process these and learn from them. It's a habit also, so any of the books that talk about learning habits, you can apply to this kind of problem, too. Like a weekly calendar event, or talking to a friend once a month and this is a topic that comes up. I don't know, there are a ton of ways you can try to make this habit, grow and stick for yourself, and it varies by person what's effective. But if you don't put it into your schedule, if you don't make room and space for it, it's really easy to skip doing it, too. MANDY: Yeah. It's amazing to look back. Even myself, I'm not the same person. I was 10, 15 years ago. I'm sure. Even as being a bisexual person that back in high school, I called something gay at one point just referring to, “Oh, that's gay.” CASEY: Yeah. MANDY: I'm sure I – [overtalk] CASEY: I'm sure I did it, too. MANDY: I'm sure I've said that. Knowing that I'm not that person anymore, recognizing that, and looking back at how much I've grown really helps me to come to terms with the fact that I wasn't always woke on this subject. We do a lot of growing over our lives. I'm in my 30s now and I've done so much growing and to look back on the person who I used to be versus the person I am now, I get very proud of how far I've come. Even though it can suck to look back at maybe a specific instance that you always remember and you're like, “Oh my God, that's so cringy. I can't believe I did that.” Having those moments to be like, “Well, you know what, that might have happened in 2003, but this is 2022 and look how far you've come.” CASEY: Love it! Yeah, growth. MANDY: Like that just makes me feel so good. CASEY: Yeah. We need the growth mindset. MANDY: And having discussions like this is what has gotten me to this place. Entering tech. I entered tech 12 years ago. I know this because my daughter's 12 and I always like, I'm like, “Okay so when my daughter was born, I got into tech. That's when I started actually becoming a decent person.” [laughs] So I measure a lot of my timeline by my daughter's age and it's just amazing to go back and see how much you've grown. Honestly, you should – another piece of homework, if you can just sit back and think about who you were before and who you are now and reflect on that a bit. MANNAH: We talked about normalizing pronouns, but I think it's also important to normalize sharing that story that you just told. I know I had a similar story where wherever I am on the wokeness scale, I was definitely much less so a couple years ago. I just did not have the same – I did not have enough experiences. I did not think about things in the same way. I did not challenge myself to be empathetic as much as I do now. It is a process and we're all somewhere on that journey. Who you are, like you said, 10 years ago is not necessarily who you are now. If it is, I don't know. I hope I'm not the same person in 10 years. I hope I'm always growing. So to make sure to share with others that it is a process and you don't wake up one day being woke. It is something that takes work and a skill that is developed. MANDY: Oh, you definitely have to do the work. Every year, I do a program. It's an actually a wonderful program. It's called Stratejoy. I can put the link in the show notes. But every year there's this woman who you sit down, you take stock of the last year and she asks a lot of deep questions. You journal them, you write them down, and then you think about what do I want to see? What can I improve? What do I want to do? How can I do so? And then we have quarterly calls throughout the year and really sit down, write it down, talk about it, and reflect on it because it is work. A lot of people make fun of people who read self-help books and I love fiction books just as much as the next person, I want to get away and read before bed at the end of the night, too. But it's really important for me to read books that make me feel uncomfortable, or make me learn, or make me think. I read a lot of books on race. So You Want to Talk About Race was one I read and it had a profound effect on me to read that book and take stock of myself and my own actions. It can be hard sometimes and it can cause anxiety. But I think in order to grow as a person, that's where you need to be vulnerable and you need to say, “No, I'm not perfect. I've done this thing wrong in the past and I don't know this, so I'm going to do what I can to educate myself.” CASEY: Another thing I hear a lot is some people say, “You should not celebrate any progress you make. You should always just feel bad and work harder forever.” Do you ever hear that kind of sentiment? Not in those words. MANDY: Yeah. CASEY: But if you ever say, “I learned a thing and I'm proud of it, here's what I learned,” there's someone on the internet who's going to tell you, “You are terrible and wrong and should do even better. Forget any progress you've made. You're not perfect yet,” and that is so frustrating to me. So here's something I'd like to see from more woke allies is less language policing, more celebrating of people who make progress. A lot of it's invisible, like we talked about on the spectrum. I do like when people get called out for making mistakes, like there's an opportunity for learning and growth, but you don't have to shame people in public, make them feel really bad about it, and embarrassed in front of the whole company. You could maybe do it privately and send a message to the companies talking about the policy in general like, “Don't use this word, don't do this thing.” You can do it very tactfully and you can be very effective. You don't have to just be PC police to the extreme. But if you are PC police to the extreme, I'm glad you're doing something. That's good. But you can be more effective. Please think about how you can be really effective, that's my request for all my woke friends. It can go overboard. It can definitely go overboard, being a language police. MANDY: Yeah, and it can make people who are trying to quit. CASEY: Right. That's a huge risk. I want to give all this a caveat, though, because if – here's an example from a friend's company. There was a presentation and there ended up being a slide with Blackface on it, which if you don't know is a terrible, awful thing that makes Black people feel really bad and it makes the person showing it seem like they are malicious, or oblivious and it shouldn't happen. And then we were wondering like, “What should someone have done in that situation?” Call it out, for sure and move on publicly is a good call there to protect any Black people in the room feel like they're being protected and heard, but not necessarily shaming the person and giving them a 5-minute lecture during that. You can be effective at getting the person not to do it again in private later calling it out to defend the people in the room. Protecting is goal number one for me, but what can you do to change the company culture effectively is a piece that I see a lot of people skipping. If you are just 5 minutes yelling at a person that might make them shut down, you're not being your most effective. So it's a hard walk to balance protecting people, calling people out, and changing the culture. But it's possible and it's work. I guess, it's really two things you're balancing, protecting the person, making them feel part of the group included and cared for versus changing the culture of the group and of the individual. We want both outcomes, ideally. But if I had to pick one, I'm going to pick protecting the person first and then the larger change can happen afterwards. MANDY: Yeah. And if you do mess up, which I've done. I've accidentally misgendered somebody and I felt terrible. All night, I kept apologizing to this person and finally, this person took me aside and said, “You're making it worse by keeping apologizing. Let it go.” CASEY: Yeah. MANDY: So also, not rehashing and banging your head against the wall multiple, multiple times. Apologize and move on. MANNAH: Yeah. If your apology is sincere, then you shouldn't need to repeat it multiple times. Make sure that the person you're apologizing to hears it and make whatever amend need be made. But I do think if you over apologizing, it's more for you so you feel better than it is more for the person that you potentially offended. CASEY: Right and I don't expect you to know that without having thought about it like you are right now. Take this moment and think about it deeper. This is intriguing to you. It is natural to want to apologize forever, but it is also harmful and you can do better than that. I offer a lot of workshops in this vein. Like there's one called Bystander to Upstander. There's another LGBTQIA inclusion where I go through a whole bunch of charts and graphs. There's one called preventing and recovering from microaggressions where you can practice making a mistake and recovering from it in a group. The practice is the key here, like really making a mistake and recovering from it, getting that the muscles, the reactions, the things you say to people, it does take work to get that to be a practice. Even if you already agree you want to, it's hard to put it into practice a lot of the time. I give workshops, including these, for community groups a couple times a month and if you want to get updates on that, that's at happyandeffective.com/updates. Also, I do these for companies so if you think your company would benefit from having these kinds of discussions, feel free to reach out to Happy and Effective, too. That's my company. MANNAH: Well, with that, I think it'd be a great time to move to reflections. What do y'all think? I think this whole episode has been one big reflection to be quite honest, but does anybody want to share anything in particular that has stood out to them throughout the hour we've just spent together? MANNAH: I'm happy to kick it off. I think that we've made some really good suggestions around how people can create more through their own actions. Create more inclusive environments. I do want to say that these are not things that are kind of stone. There are a lot of ways. Everybody's an individual, every situation is different, and I don't want to be prescriptive in saying you have to do certain things. I do want to say that when I'm speaking, this is my experience and these are things that I think can help. So please don't take what I say to be gospel. They are suggestions and if you disagree with them, then I'm happy to have that conversation. But recognize that the people speaking on this panel don't necessarily have the answers, but they are people who are willing to start this conversation. CASEY: The thing I want people to take away is—and you can repeat after me, everyone—I will make mistakes. Good, good. I heard it. I will find more support. Awesome. You're great. Okay. You're on the right path for this now. Mandy, over to you. MANDY: This is not something that you do once and you're done. This kind of reflection and this kind of work is always going to be a work in progress until the day you're no longer here. It's not something you can read a book and be like, “Okay, I did that. I'm good now. I know things.” It's constantly changing and evolving and you need to do the work. You need to have empathy for others and realize that everybody is constantly changing and just because somebody isn't one ting one day, they might be something the other day. I tell my daughter all the time because she's very unsure about who is she and I'm like, “You don't have to know right now. Just because you think you're this, or you're this right now, in 2 years, you might feel differently and you might be this.” So people are always evolving, always changing, and that doesn't just go for how you present either your gender identity, or sexual identity but it also just goes for who you are. I always try to grow as a person and the work is never done. CASEY: No one has all the answers, no one knows everything, and anyone who says they do is lying because it's going to change. It will change. MANDY: Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Mannah and Casey for having this conversation today. I know it's uncomfortable, I know it's a hard thing to talk about, and I'm so grateful that you both showed up to have it. If we want to continue these conversations, I invite anybody who's listening to reach out to us. If you'd like to come on the show to talk about it, reach out to us. We have a Slack channel that we can have private conversations in. You can find that at Patreon.com/greaterthancode and donate as little as a dollar to get in. We do that so we keep the trolls out and if you cannot afford a dollar, please DM any one of us and we will get you in there for free. So with that, thank you again for listening and we will see you all next week.

01:48 - Kate's Superpower: Empathy * Absorbing Energy * Setting Healthy Energetic Boundaries * Authenticity * Intent vs Impact 10:46 - Words and Narratives Carry Power; Approaching Inclusive Language * Taking Action After Causing Harm * Get Specific, But Don't Overthink * Practice Makes Progress * Normalize Sharing Pronouns * No-CodeConf (https://webflow.com/nocodeconf) * No-CodeSchool (https://nocodeschool.co/) * Gender Expresion Does Not Always Equal Gender Identity 21:27 - Approaching Inclusive Language in the Written Word * Webflow Accessibility Checklist (https://webflow.com/accessibility/checklist) * Asking For Advice * Do Your Own Research/Work 29:18 - Creating Safe Places, Communities, and Environments * Absorbing and Asking * Authenticity (Cont'd) * Adaptation to Spaces * Shifting Energy 42:34 - Building Kula (https://kulayogadenver.com/) While Working in Tech * Community Care, Mutual Aid-Centered Model * Using Privilege to Pave the Way For More People * Alignment Reflections: John: The dichotomy between perfectionism and authenticity. Arty: Words carry power. Kate: Having an open heart is how you can put any of this into action. This episode was brought to you by @therubyrep (https://twitter.com/therubyrep) of DevReps, LLC (http://www.devreps.com/). To pledge your support and to join our awesome Slack community, visit patreon.com/greaterthancode (https://www.patreon.com/greaterthancode) To make a one-time donation so that we can continue to bring you more content and transcripts like this, please do so at paypal.me/devreps (https://www.paypal.me/devreps). You will also get an invitation to our Slack community this way as well. Transcript: PRE-ROLL: Software is broken, but it can be fixed. Test Double's superpower is improving how the world builds software by building both great software and great teams. And you can help! Test Double is hiring empathetic senior software engineers and DevOps engineers. We work in Ruby, JavaScript, Elixir and a lot more. Test Double trusts developers with autonomy and flexibility at a remote, 100% employee-owned software consulting agency. Looking for more challenges? Enjoy lots of variety while working with the best teams in tech as a developer consultant at Test Double. Find out more and check out remote openings at link.testdouble.com/greater. That's link.testdouble.com/greater. JOHN: Welcome to Greater Than Code. I'm John Sawers and I'm here with Arty Starr. ARTY: Thanks, John. And I'm here with our guest today, Kate Marshall. Kate is a copywriter and inclusivity activist living in Denver. Since entering tech 4 years ago, she's toured the marketing org from paid efforts to podcast host, eventually falling in love with the world of copy. With this work, she hopes to make the web a more welcoming place using the power of words. Outside of Webflow, you'll find Kate opening Kula, a donation-based yoga studio, and bopping around the Mile High City with her partner, Leah. Welcome to the show, Kate. KATE: Hi, thank you so much! ARTY: So we always start our shows with our famous first question. What is your superpower and how did you acquire it? KATE: My superpower, I've been thinking about this. My superpower is empathy. It can also be one of my biggest downfalls [laughs], which I actually think happens more often than not with any superpower. I once heard from a child, actually, they always seem to know best that too much of the good, good is bad, bad. [laughter] So it turns out sometimes too much empathy can be too overwhelming for my system, but it has really driven everything that I've done in my career and my personal life. As for how I acquired it, I don't know that you can really acquire empathy. I think it's just something you have, or you don't. I've always been extremely intuitive and if you're going through something, it's likely that I can feel it. So I think I'm just [laughs] I hate to steal Maybelline's line, but I think I was born with it. JOHN: You talked about having a downside there and I've heard – and I'm curious, because most people talk about empathy as a positive thing and wanting more people to develop more empathy, but I'd to love hear you talk a little bit more about what you see the downsides are. KATE: Yeah. As someone who struggles with her own mental health issues, it can be really overwhelming for me to really take on whatever it is you're going through. Especially if it's a loved one, you tend to care more about what they're feeling, or what they're going through and an empath truly does absorb the energy of what's happening around them. So although, it does influence a lot of the work that I do, both in my full-time career and opening my yoga studio and everything in between, it's also hard sometimes to set those boundaries, to set healthy, really energetic boundaries. It's hard enough to voice your boundaries to people, but setting energetic boundaries is a whole other ballgame. So it can tend to feel overwhelming at times and bring you down if the energy around you is lower than what you want it to be. ARTY: So what kind of things do you do to try and set healthy, energetic boundaries? KATE: Ah. I do a lot of what some people would call, including myself, woo-woo practices. [chuckles] Obviously, I practice yoga. I teach yoga. I'm super passionate about holistic, or energetic healing so I go to Reiki regularly. I'm in therapy, talk therapy. All of those things combined help me build this essentially an energetic shield that I can psych myself up to use any time I'm leaving the apartment. If it feels a high energy day, or if I'm meeting up with a friend who I know is going through something, I really have to set those boundaries is. Same thing kind of at work, too. So much of the time that we spend in our lives is spent at work, or interacting with coworkers or colleagues and same thing. Everyone's going through their own journey and battles, and you have to carry that energetic shield around you wherever you go. JOHN: One way I've often thought about having those sort of boundaries is the more I know who I am, the more what the limits of me are and the barrier between me and the universe is. So the work that I do, which includes therapy and other things, to understand myself better and to feel like I know what's me and what's not me, helps me have those boundaries. Because then I know if there's something going on with someone else and I can relate to it, but not get swept up by it. KATE: Yeah. It's so funny you say that because I was actually just having a conversation with a friend a couple weeks ago that has really stuck with me. I was kind of feeling like I was messing up, essentially. Like I was not fully able to honor, or notice all of the triggers of the people around me. I think especially at the end of the year and as a queer person who is surrounded by queer community, it can be really tough around the holidays. So that energy can just be generally more charged and I was finding it difficult to reconcile with my idea of perfection in that I really want to honor every person around me who has triggers, who has boundaries that maybe haven't been communicated, and it almost feels like you're almost always crossing some sort of line, especially when you're putting those perfectionism expectations on yourself. My friend was like, “I don't think it's as much about being perfect at it as much as it is feeling like you're being authentically yourself and really authentically interacting with those people.” I don't know if I can really voice what the connection is between being able to honor triggers and boundaries of the people around you and feeling like your authentic self, but there's something about it that feels really connected to me. As long as you're trying your best and feeling like you're coming from a place of love, or connection, or compassion, or empathy whatever feels most to you, that's really all we can do, right? JOHN: Yeah. I feel like that authenticity is such a tricky concept because the thoughts that you're having about wanting to be perfect and take care of everyone and make sure you're not triggering anybody and not stepping on any of your own things, that's also part of you that is authentically you. You may not want it to be that way, but it still is. [laughs]. ARTY: Yeah. JOHN: So I still don't have a really clear sense in my mind what authenticity really is. I think probably it settles down to being a little bit more in the moment, rather than up in the thinking, the judging, the worrying, and being able to be present rather than – [overtalk] ARTY: Totally. JOHN: Those other things, but it is tricky. KATE: Yeah. It can be tricky. Humans, man. [laughter] It really is like being a human and part of the human experience is going to be triggering other people. It's going to be causing harm. It's going to be causing trauma to other humans. That's just part of it. I think the more you can get comfy with that idea and then also just really feeling like you're doing everything you can to stay connected to your core, which usually is in humans is a place of love. You're rooted in love for the people around you. How could you criticize yourself too much when you know that you're coming from that place? ARTY: I feel like things change, too as you get feedback. In the context of any intimate relationship where you've got emotionally connected relationship with another person where you are more unguarded and you're having conversations about things that are more personal, that have at least the potential to hurt and cause harm. Like sometimes we do things not meaning to and we end up hurting someone else accidentally, but once that happens—and hopefully, you have an open dialogue where you have a conversation about these things and learn about these things and adapt—then I think the thing to do is honor each person as an individual of we're all peoples and then figure out well, what can we do to adapt how we operate in this relationship and look out for both people's best interests and strive for a win-win. If we don't try and do that, like if we do things that we know we're harming someone else and we're just like, “Well, you should just put up with that,” [laughs], or whatever. I think that's where it becomes problematic is at the same time, we all have our own limitations and sometimes, the best thing to do is this relationship doesn't work. The way that we interact causes mutual harm and we can't this a win-win relationship and the best thing to do sometimes is to separate, even though it hurts because it's not working. KATE: Yeah. I feel like sometimes it's a classic case of intent versus impact, too. Like what's your intention going into a conversation and then how does that end up actually impacting that person and how can you honor that and learn from that? That's actually one thing that I love so much about being a writer is that words do carry so much power—written word, spoken word, whatever it is. They hold so much power and they can cause harm whether we want them to, or not. Part of being an empath is caring a lot about people's lived experiences and I really see it as more than putting – being a writer and doing this every day, I see it so much more than just putting words on a page and hoping signs up for the beta, or watches the thing registers, or the conference. It's words can foster connection, words can build worlds for people; they can make people feel like they belong and I believe that I'm on this planet to foster that connection with each other and with ourselves. So it all connects for me. It all comes back around whether we're talking about being in a romantic relationship, or our relationship with our parents, or our caregivers, or the work that I do every day it all comes back to that connection and really wanting to make people feel more connected to themselves, to each other, and like they have a place with words. ARTY: Yeah. It's very powerful. Words and narratives, I would say too, just thinking about the stories that we tell ourselves, the stories that we tell one another that become foundational in our culture. It's all built upon were words. Words shape the ideas in our head. They shape our thoughts. They shape how we reflect on things, how we feel about things, and then when people give us their words, we absorb those and then those become part of our own reflections. KATE: Yeah. ARTY: We affect one another a lot. I think that's one of the things I'm just seeing and talking to you is just thinking about how much we affect one another through our everyday interactions. KATE: Yeah, and I think a lot of this comes down to – there's something you said earlier that resonated in that it's really about the action you take after you cause the harm, or after you say the thing that hurts the other person and it's less about – and that's what made me say intent versus impact because you see the impact, you acknowledge it, and you make a decision to lessen that next time, or to be aware, more aware next time. This is really at the core of all the work I do for inclusive language as well. It's just the core principle of the words we use carry a lot of power. And I was actually just chatting with someone in the No-Code space. We connected through Webflow a couple weeks ago and he said, “I think people are so scared to get it wrong when it comes to inclusive language,” and I experience this all the time. People freeze in their tracks because they don't know how address someone and then they're so scared to get it wrong and they're like, “Oh, so sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,” and they're so apologetic. And then that makes it worse and it's just a whole thing. In this conversation, we were talking specifically about misgendering people. My partner is non-binary. They're misgendered every single day when we go to restaurants, when we are just out and about. So this is something that is a part of my life every day. I told him that fear is so real and I carry that fear, too because I don't want to hurt people because I want to like get it right. It comes back to that perfectionism, that expectation that I put on myself, especially as a queer person to get it right all the time. But so much of the good stuff lies in how you approach it and then how you fix it when you mess it up. Like, it's not so much about the thing, it's about the way that you approach it. If you approach inclusive language with an open mind, an open heart, and a real willingness, like true willingness to learn, that's what's important going into it and then you're already doing the work. You're already an ally. You're already however you want to put it. And then when you use an ableist word, or you use a racist word, or you misgender someone, your actions for following that speak volumes. I think we can really get caught up in the action itself and it's more about how you go into it and then how you try to fix it. ARTY: So I'm thinking for listeners that might identify with being in a situation of being in the headlights and not knowing how to respond, or what to do. Other than what you were just talking about with coming at it with an open heart, are there any specific recommendations you might have for how to approach inclusive language? KATE: Yeah. Yeah, I have a couple really, really good ones. So often, the way to speak more inclusively, or to write more inclusively is just to get more specific about what you're trying to say. So instead of saying, “Oh, that's so crazy,” which is ableist, you can say, “Oh, that's so unheard of.” That's a good example. Or instead of unnecessarily gendering something you're saying like, “Oh, I'm out of wine, call the waitress over.” It's server instead of waiter, or waitress. You kind of start to essentially practice replacing these words and these concepts that are so ingrained into who we are, into society at large, and really starting to disrupt those systems within us with challenging the way that we've described things in the past. So just essentially getting more specific when we're speaking. When it comes to misgendering people specifically, it's really important to not be overly apologetic when you misgender someone. I can give an example. If a server, for example, comes up to me and my partner and says, “Can I get you ladies anything else?” And I say, “Oh, actually my partner uses they/them pronouns. They are not a lady,” and they say, “Oh my God, I'm so sorry. Oh shit!” And then that makes my partner feel bad [chuckles] for putting them in that position and then it's kind of this like ping pong back and forth of just bad feelings. The ideal scenario, the server would say, “Oh, excuse me, can I get you all anything else?” Or, “Can I get you folks anything else?” Or just, if you're speaking about someone who uses they/them pronouns and you say, “Yeah, and I heard she, I mean, they did this thing.” You just quickly correct it and move on. Don't make it into a production. It's okay. We get it. Moving on. Just try not to overthink it, basically. [laughs] Get more specific, but don't overthink it. Isn't that like, what a dichotomy. [laughter] JOHN: That ties back to what you were saying about perfectionism also, right? Like you said, you freeze up if you try and be perfect about it all the time, because you can't always know what someone's pronouns are and so, you have to make a guess at some point and maybe you're going to guess wrong. But it's how you deal with it by not making everybody uncomfortable with the situation. [laughs] KATE: Yeah. JOHN: And like you said, ping pong of bad feelings just amplifies, the whole thing blows out of proportion. You can just be like, “Oh, my apologies.” Her, they, whatever it is and then very quickly move on and then it's forgotten the next minute. Everything moves on from that, but you're not weeping and gnashing and – [laughter] KATE: Yeah. JOHN: Well, it means you don't have to keep feeling bad about it for the next 3 days either, like everyone can move on from that point. KATE: Right. Yeah, and just doing your best to not do it again. JOHN: Yeah. KATE: Once you learn, it's important to really let that try to stick. If you're having trouble, I have a friend who really has trouble with they/them pronouns and they practice with their dog. They talk to their dog about this person and they use they/them pronouns in that. Practice really does make perfect in this – not perfect, okay. Practice really does make progress in this kind of scenario and also, normalize sharing pronouns. JOHN: Yeah. KATE: It's more than just putting it in your Zoom name. It's more than just putting it in your Instagram bio. A good example of really starting this conversation was during Webflow's No-Code Conf, our yearly conference. It was mostly online and we had a live portion of it and every single time we introduced someone new, or introduced ourselves, we said, “My name is Kate Marshall, my pronouns are she/her, and I'm so happy to be here with you today.” Or just asking if you don't know, or if you're in a space with someone new, you say, “What are your pronouns?” It's really is that easy. Webflow made some year-round pride mech that we launched over the summer and we have a cute beanie that says “Ask me my pronouns.” It's like, it's cool to ask. It's fine to ask and that's so much better than unintentionally misgendering someone. It's going to take some time to get there, but normalize it. JOHN: Yeah, and I think there's one key to that that has always stuck out of my mind, which is don't ask pronouns just for the people you think might have different pronouns than you would expect. KATE: Yes. JOHN: Make it part of all the conversations so it's not just singling somebody out of a group and saying, “I want to know your pronouns because they're probably different.” That's not good. KATE: Right, because gender expression does not always equal gender identity. JOHN: Yeah. KATE: You can't know someone's gender identity from the way that they express their gender and that's also another huge misconception that I think it's time we talk more about. JOHN: So we've been talking a lot about conversations and person-to-person interactions and inclusive language there. But a lot of what you do is it on the writing level and I imagine there's some differences there. So I'm curious as to what you see as far as the things that you do to work on that in the written form. KATE: Yeah. So this is actually a really great resource that I was planning on sharing with whoever's listening, or whoever's following along this podcast. There is a really wonderful inclusive language guidelines that we have published externally at Webflow and I own it, I update it regularly as different things come in and inclusive language is constantly evolving. It will never be at a final resting point and that's also part of why I love it so much because you truly are always growing. I'm always learning something new about inclusive language, or to make someone feel more included with the words that I'm writing. This table has, or this resource has ableist language, racist language, and sexist language tables with words to avoid, why to avoid them, and some alternatives and just some general principles. I reference it constantly. Like I said, it's always evolving. I actually don't know how many words are on there, but it's a good amount and it's a lot of things have been surfaced to me that I had no idea were racist. For instance, the word gypped. Like if you say, “Oh, they gypped me” is actually racist. It's rooted in the belief that gypsy people are thieves. [chuckles] So it's things like that we really kind of go deep in there and I reference this constantly. Also, ALS language is a really big consideration, especially in the tech space. So instead of – and this can be avoided most of the time, not all of the time. We do work with a really wonderful accessibility consultant who I run things by constantly. Shout out to Michele. Oh, she was actually on the podcast at one point. Michele Williams, shout out. Lovely human. So a good example is instead of “watch now,” or “listen now,” it's “explore this thing,” “browse this thing,” “learn more”. Just try not to get so specific about the way that someone might be consuming the information that I'm putting down on the page. Stuff like that. It truly does come down to just getting more specific as just a general principle. JOHN: So it sounds to me some of the first steps you take are obviously being aware that you have to mold your language to be more accessible and inclusive, then it's informing yourself of what the common pitfalls are. As you said, you have consultants, you've got guides, you've got places where you can gather this information and then once you have that, then you build that into your mental process for writing what you're writing. KATE: Yeah, and truly just asking questions and this goes for everyone. No one would ever – if I reached out to our head of DEI, Mariah, and said, “Mariah, is this thing offensive?” Or, “How should I phrase this thing to feel more inclusive to more people?” She would never come back at me and say, “Why are you asking me this? You should already know this,” and that is the attitude across the board. I would never fault someone for coming to me and asking me how to phrase something, or how to write something to make it feel better for more people. So it's really a humbling experience [laughs] to be in this position. Again, words carry so much power and I just never take for granted, the power essentially that I have, even if it is just for a tech company. A lot of people are consuming that and I want to make them feel included. JOHN: Yeah. The written face of a company is going to tell readers a lot about the culture of the company, the culture of the community around the product. KATE: Yeah. JOHN: Whether they're going to be welcome there, like what their experience is going to be like if they invest their time to learn about it. So it's really important to have that language there and woven into everything that's written, not just off the corner on the DEI page. KATE: Yeah. That's what I was just about to say is especially if you're a company that claims to prioritize DEI, you better be paying close attention to the words that you're using in your product, on your homepage, whatever it is, your customer support. I've worked with the customer support team at Webflow to make sure that the phrasing feels good for people. It truly does trickle into every single asset of a business and it's ongoing work that does not just end at, like you said, putting it on a DEI page. Like, “We care about this,” and then not actually caring about it. That sucks. [laughs] JOHN: Oh, the other thing before we move too far on from last topic, you're talking about asking for advice. I think one of the keys there, a, being humble and just saying, “I would like to know,” and you're very unlikely to get criticized for simply asking how something can be better. But I feel like one of the keys to doing that well is also not arguing with the person you've asked after they give you an answer. KATE: Right. Yes. Especially if that person is a part of the community that your words are affecting, or that your question is affecting. It's such a tricky balance because it's really not the queer community's job to educate people who are not queer about inclusive language. But when that person is willing to share their knowledge with the you, or willing to share their experience with you, you've got to listen. Your opinions about their lived experience don't come into that conversation, or shouldn't come into that conversation. It's not questioning the information that you're given, but then it's also taking that and doing your own research and asking more people and having conversations with your friends and family trying to widen this breadth of information and knowledge as a community. Like I said, kind of dismantling the things that we're taught growing up by capitalism, by society, everything that kind of unnecessarily separates and then doing better next time. I've actually had conversations with people who are very curious, who come to me with questions and then the next time I interact with them, they're just back to factory settings. That's so disappointing and just makes me feel like my energy could have been better spent having that conversation with someone who is more receptive. So I think it really is just about being open to hearing someone's experience, not questioning it, and then really taking that in and doing the work on your own. JOHN: Yeah, and part of that doing the work is also for the things that you can Google for the things where you can look at it from the guide, do that first before asking for someone's time. KATE: Yeah. JOHN: So that they're not answering the same 101 questions every time that are just written in 15 different blog posts. KATE: Yes. Especially if you're asking a marginalized person to do the work for you. JOHN: Yeah. KATE: Intersectionality matters and putting more work on the shoulders of people who are already weighed down by so much ain't it. [laughs] ARTY: Well, I was wanting to go back to your original superpower that you talked about with empathy. We talked a lot about some of these factors that make empathy of a difficult thing of over empathizing and what kind of factors make that hard. But as a superpower, what kind of superpowers does that give you? KATE: Ah, just being able to really connect to a lot of different people. I mentioned earlier that I believe it's my purpose, it's my life's work on this planet at this time to connect people to themselves and to each other. The more asking I can do and the more absorbing I can do of other people's experiences, the better I am at being able to connect with them and being able to make them feel like they belong in whatever space I'm in. I can't connect with someone if I don't try and get it. Try and get what they're going through, or what their experiences are. That's why I do so much time just talking to people, and that's why I love yoga and why I want to start this studio and open this space. Because we live in a world where we don't have a lot of spaces, especially marginalized communities don't have a lot of spaces that feel like they're being understood, or they're truly being heard, or seen. Me being an empath, I'm able to access that in people more and therefore, bringing them closer to safer spaces, or safer people, safer communities where they really feel like they can exist and be their full, whole, and complete selves. It's really special. ARTY: We also touched this concept of authenticity and it seems like that also comes up in this context of creating these safe spaces and safe communities where people can be their whole selves. So when you think about authenticity, we talked about this being a difficult and fuzzy word, but at the same time, it does have some meaning as to what that means, and these challenges with regards to boundaries and things. But I'm curious, what does authenticity mean to you? How does that come into play with this idea of safety and creating these safe spaces for others as well? KATE: Yeah. I feel like there's so much in there. I think one of the biggest things to accept about the word authenticity, or the concept of authenticity is that it's always changing and it means something different to everyone. We are all authentic to ourselves in different ways and at different times in our lives and I think it's so important to honor the real evolution of feeling authentic. There are times and days where I'm like who even am. It's like what even, but there's always this sort of core, root part of me that I don't lose, which is what we've been talking about. This ability to connect, this feeling of empathy, of compassion, of wanting to really be a part of the human experience. That, to me, kind of always stays and I feel like that's the authentic, like the real, real, authentic parts of me. There are layers to it that are always changing and as people, we are also always evolving and always changing. So those different parts of authenticity could be what you wear that make you feel like your most authentic self. It can be how you interact with your friends, or how you interact with the person, getting your popcorn at the movies, or whatever it is. Those can all feel like parts of your authentic self. That means something different to everyone. But I think that's such a beautiful part about it and about just being human is just how often these things are changing for us and how important it is to honor someone's authenticity, whatever that means for them at that time. Even if it's completely different from what you knew about them, or how you knew them before. It's this constant curiosity of yourself and of others, really getting deeply curious about what feels like you. ARTY: I was wondering about safety because you were talking about the importance of creating these safe communities and safe environments where people could be their whole, complete selves, which sounds a lot like the authenticity thing, but you trying to create space for that for others. KATE: Yeah. Well, the reality of safety is that there's no one space that will ever be a “safe space for everyone,” and that's why I like to say safer spaces, or a safer space for people because you can never – I feel like it's all coming full circle where you can never meet every single person exactly where they need to be met in any given moment. You can just do your best to create spaces that feel safer to them and you do that with authentic connection, with getting curious about who they are and what they love, and just making sure that your heart's really in it. [chuckles] Same with inclusive language. It's all about the way you approach it to make someone feel safer. But I do think it's an I distinction to remember. You're never going to be safe for everyone. A space you create is never going to be safe for everyone. The best you can do is just make it safer for more people. ARTY: When I think about just the opposite of that, of times that I've gone into a group where I haven't felt safe being myself and then when you talk of about being your complete whole self, it's like bringing a whole another level of yourself to a space that may not really fit that space and that seems like it's okay, too. Like we don't necessarily have to bring our full self to all these different spaces, but whatever space we're a part of, we kind of sync up and adapt to it. So if I'm in one space and I feel the kind of vibe, energy, context of what's going on, how people are interacting, the energy they put forth when they speak with whatever sorts of words that they use. I'm going to feel that and adapt to that context of what feels safe and then as more people start adapting to that, it creates a norm that other people that then come and see what's going on in this group come to an understanding about what the energy in the room is like. KATE: Yeah. ARTY: And all it takes is one person to bring a different energy into that to shift the whole dynamic of things. KATE: Yeah. The reality is you'll never be able to change every space and I think that's such a good point. It makes me feel like saying you have to be protective of your energy. If you go into a space and it just doesn't feel right, or there's someone who is in the room that doesn't feel safe to you, or that doesn't feel like they're on the same page as you, it's okay to not feel like you need to change the world in that space. Like you don't always have to go into a space and say, “I'm going to change it.” That is how change is made when you feel safe enough. That's why it's so important to foster that energy from the jump. That's just a foundational thing at a company in a yoga studio, in a home, at a restaurant. It can be changed, but it really should be part of the foundation of making a safer space, or a more inclusive space. Because otherwise, you're asking the people who don't feel safe, who are usually marginalized people, or intersectionally marginalized in some way. You're asking them essentially to put in the work to change what you should have done as the foundation of your space. So it's a such a delicate balance of being protective of your energy and really being able to feel out the places where you feel okay saying something, or making a change, or just saying, “No, this isn't worth it for me. I'm going to go find a space that actually feels a little bit better, or that I feel more community in.” ARTY: And it seems like the other people that are in the group, how those people respond to you. If you shift your energy, a lot of times the people that are in the group will shift their energy in kind. Other times, in a different space, you might try to shift energy and then there's a lot of resistance to that where people are going a different way and so, you get pushed out of the group energy wise. These sorts of dynamics, you can feel this stuff going on of just, I just got outcast out of this group. Those are the kinds of things, though that you need to protect your own energy of even if I'm not included in this group, I can still have a good relationship with me and I can still like me and I can think I'm still pretty awesome and I can find other groups of folks that like me. It definitely, at least for me, I tend to be someone who's like, I don't know, I get out grouped a lot. [laughs] But at the same time, I've gotten used to that and then I find other places where I've got friends that love me and care about me and stuff. So those are recharge places where I can go and get back to a place where I feel solid and okay with myself, and then I'm much more resilient then going into these other spaces and stuff where I might not be accepted, where I might have to be kind of shielded and guarded and just put up a front, and operate in a way that makes everyone else feel more comfortable. KATE: Yeah, and isn't it so powerful to feel cared for? ARTY: I love that. KATE: Like just to feel cared for by the people around you is everything. It's everything. That's it. Just to feel like you are wanted, or you belong. To feel cared for. It can exist everywhere is the thing. In your Slack group, or whatever, you can make people feel cared for. I have never regretted reaching out to a coworker, or a friend, or whoever an acquaintance and saying, “Hey, I love this thing about you,” or “Congratulations on this rad thing you just launched,” or whatever. It's the care that's so powerful. ARTY: I feel like this is one of those things where we can learn things from our own pain and these social interactions and stuff. One of the things that I've experienced is you're in a group and you say something and nobody responds. [laughs] KATE: Yeah. ARTY: And after doing that for a while, you feel like you're just shouting into the void and nobody hears you and it's just this feeling of like invisibility. In feeling that way myself, one of the things I go out of my way to do is if somebody says something, I at least try and respond, acknowledge them, let them know that they're heard, they're cared about, and that there's somebody there on the other side [chuckles] and they're not shouting into the wind because I hate that feeling. It's an awful feeling to feel invisible like that. KATE: Awful, yeah. ARTY: But we can learn from those experiences and then we can use those as opportunities to understand how we can give in ways that are subtle, that are often little things that are kind of ignored, but they're little things that actually make a really big difference. KATE: Yeah, the little things. It really is the little things, isn't it? [laughs] Like and it's just, you can learn from your experiences, but you can also say, “I'm not doing this right now.” You can also check out. If you are giving and giving. and find that you're in the void essentially, more often than not, you can decide that that's no longer are worth your time, your energy, your care, and you can redirect that care to somewhere else that's going to reciprocate, or that's going to give you back that same care and that's so important, too. JOHN: Yeah, and it sounds like starting a yoga studio is not a trivial undertaking and obviously, you're highly motivated to create this kind of an environment in the world. So is there anything more you'd like to say about that because that ties in very closely with what we're talking about? KATE: Yeah. It's so weird to work full-time and be so passionate about my tech job and then turn around and be like, “I'm opening a yoga studio.” It's such a weird, but again, it's all connected at the root, at the core of what I'm trying to do in this world. The thing about Kula is that it's really built on this foundational mutual aid model. So being donation-based, it's really pay what you can, if you can. And what you pay, if you're able to give an extra $10 for the class that you take, that's going to pay for someone else's experience, who is unable to financially contribute to take that class. That's the basis of community care, of mutual aid and it's really this heart-based business model that is really tricky. I'm trying to get a loan right now and [chuckles] it's really hard to prove business financials when you have a donation-based model and you say, “Well, I'm going to guess what people might donate per class on average.” So it's been a real journey, [laughs] especially with today's famous supply chain issues that you hear about constantly in every single industry. I have an empty space right now. It needs to be completely built out. Construction costs are about triple what they should be. Again, coming from this real mutual aid community care centered model, it's really hard, but I have to keep coming back. I was just telling my partner about this the other day, I have to keep coming back to this core idea, or this real feeling that I don't need to have a beautifully designed space to create what I'm trying to create. When I started this, I envisioned just a literal empty room [chuckles] with some people in it and a bathroom and that's it. So of course, once I saw the designs, I was like, “Oh, I love this can lighting that's shining down in front of the bathroom door.” It's like so whatever, stereotypical. Not stereotypical, but surface level stuff. I really have had to time and time again, return to this longing almost for a space that feels safer for me, for my community, for Black people, for disabled people, for trans people, for Asian people; we don't have a lot of spaces that feel that way and that's just the reality. So it's a real delicate balance of how do I like – this is a business and I need money, [laughs] but then I really want this to be rooted in mutual aid and community care. It comes back to that car and that inclusivity, creating authentic connections. It's tricky out there for a queer woman entrepreneur with no collateral. [laughs] It's a tricky world out there, but I think we'll flip it someday. I really think pioneering this idea, or this business model at least where I'm at in Denver, I think it's going to start the conversation in more communities and with more people who want to do similar things and my hope is that that will foster those conversations and make it more accessible to more people. JOHN: Yeah, and I think every time someone manages to muster up the energy, the capital, and the community effort to put something like this together, it makes it just slightly easier for someone else a, they can learn the lessons and b, they're more examples of this thing operating in the world. So it becomes more possible in people's minds and you can build some of that momentum there. KATE: Yeah. And of course, it's really important to note and to remember that I come from a place of immense privilege. I have a great job in tech. I'm white. I am upper middle class. Technically, I'm “straight passing,” which is a whole other concept, but it is a thing and this is the way that I'm choosing to use my privilege to hopefully pave the way for more people. I do not take for granted the opportunity that I'm given and like I said, intersectionality matters and all of that, but I still have a lot of privilege going into this that I hope turns into something good for more people. ARTY: It also takes a special kind of person to be an entrepreneur because you really have to just keep on going. No matter any obstacle that's in your way, you've just got to keep on going and have that drive, desire, and dream to go and build something and make it happen and your superpowers probably going to help you out with that, too. It sounds like we've got multiple superpowers because I think you got to have superpowers to be an entrepreneur in itself. KATE: Yeah. I don't know, man. It's such a weird feeling to have because it just feels like it's what I'm supposed to be doing. That's it. It doesn't feel like I'm like – yes, it's a calling and all of that, but it just feels like the path and that, it feels more, more natural than anything I guess, is what I'm trying to say. The more people follow that feeling, the more authentic of a world, the more connected of a world we're going to have. I see a lot of people doing this work, similar things, and it makes me so happy to see. The words of one of my therapists, one of my past therapists told me, “Always stick with me,” and it was right around the time I was kind of – so I'd started planning before COVID hit and then COVID hit and I had to pause for about a year, a little bit less than a year. It was right around the time I was filing my LLC and really starting to move forward. It was actually December 17th of last year that I filed my LLC paperwork. So it's been a little over a year now. He told me, “How much longer are you willing to wait to give the community this thing that you want to give them? How much are you willing to make them wait for this space?” And I was like, “Yesterday. Yesterday.” Like, “I want to give people this space immediately,” and that has truly carried me through. This supply chain stuff is no joke. [laughs] and it has really carried me through some of the more doubtful moments in this journey. Yeah, and I feel like, man, what powerful words. Like, I just want to keep saying them because they are such powerful words to me. How much longer are you willing to make them wait? And it's like, I don't want to. [chuckles] So I guess I'm going to go do it. [laughter] Throw caution to the wind. [laughs] JOHN: Well, I think that ties back into what you were talking about is as you were thinking about designing the space and what kind of buildout you're going to need, and that can be a guide star for what actually needs to be there. What's the actual MVP for this space? Does it need a perfect coat of paint, or is what's there good enough? Does it need all the things arranged just so in the perfect lighting, or does it just need to exist and have people in the room and you can really focus in on what's going to get you there? And then of course, you iterate like everything else, you improve over time, but. KATE: Right. JOHN: I love that concept of just cut out everything that's in the way of this happening right now as much as possible. KATE: Yeah, and what a concept, I think that can be applied to so many things. Who am I trying to serve with this thing and what do I need to do to get there? It doesn't have to be this shiny, beautiful well-designed creation. It just needs to serve people. The people that you want to serve in the best way possible, and for me, that's getting this space open and actually having it in action. ARTY: I think once you find something that feels in alignment with you, you seem to have lots of clarity around just your sense of purpose, of what you want to move toward of a deep connection with yourself. One thing I found with that is no matter how much you get rejected by various groups in the world, if you can be congruent and authentic with yourself and follow that arrow, that once you start doing that, you find other people that are in resonance with you. They're out there, but you don't find them until you align with yourself. KATE: Yeah. Community. Community is so powerful and I love that you just said alignment because that really is truly what it is. It's finding the thing that makes you feel like you're doing something good and that feels authentic to your core, to those core principles of you that never really change. The things that are rooted in love, the things that are rooted in compassion, or whatever it is you care about. Community, that alignment is absolutely key. It's also, when I say I was born with my superpower of being an empath, this desire to create this space feels, it feels like I was also born with this desire, or born with this alignment. So I feel like so many times it's just going back to the basics of who you are. ARTY: Like you're actualizing who you are. KATE: Yeah. Like full alignment, enlightenment, that all kind of falls into place when you're really making the effort to be connected to your core. ARTY: It seems like a good place to do reflections. So at the end of the show, we usually go around and do final reflections and takeaways, final thoughts that you have and you get to go last, Kate. JOHN: There are a whole lot of different things that I've been thinking about here, but I think one of the ones that's sticking with me is the dichotomy between perfectionism and authenticity, and how I feel like they really are pulling against one another and that, which isn't to say things can't be perfect and authentic at the same time. But I think perfectionism is usually a negative feeling. Like you should do something, you're putting a lot of pressure, there's a lot of anxiety around perfectionism and that is pretty much an opposition to being authentically yourself. It's hard to be in touch with yourself when you're wrapped up in all those anxieties and so, thinking about the two of them together, I hadn't made that connection before, but I think that's something that's interesting that I'll be thinking about for a while. ARTY: I think the thing that's going to stick with me, Kate is you said, “Our words carry so much power,” and I think about our conversation today out just vibes in the room and how that shifts with the energy that we bring to the room, all of these subtle undercurrent conversations that we're having, and then how a sort of energy vibe becomes established. And how powerful even these really little tiny things we do are. We had this conversation around inclusive language and you gave so many great details and specifics around what that means and how we can make little, small alterations to some of these things that are just baked into us because of our culture and the words that we hear, phrasing and things that we hear, that we're just unaware of the impact of things. Just by paying attention and those little subtle details of things and coming at things with an open heart, regardless of how we might stumble, or mess things up, how much of a difference that can make because our words, though carry so much power. KATE: Yeah. And the thing you just said about having an open heart is truly how you can put any of this into action, how you can remain open to learning about authenticity, or what it feels like to not fall into a trap of perfectionism, or how to speak, or write, or interact more inclusively with other human beings. I feel like being open, being openminded, being open-hearted, whatever it is, is just really a superpower on its own. Remaining open and vulnerable in today's world is hard work. It does not come naturally to so many people, especially when you're dealing with your own traumas and your own individual interactions and maybe being forced into spaces where you don't feel safe. To remain open is such a tool for making other people feel cared for. So if that's the goal, I would say just being open is truly your superpower. JOHN: I think that's the quote I'm going to take with me: being open is the key to making people feel cared for. KATE: Yes. I love that. ARTY: Well, thank you for joining us on the show, Kate. It's been a pleasure to have you here. KATE: Thank you so much. This has been just the energy boost I needed. Special Guest: Kate Marshall.

ND stages a trialogue this week with MacArthur "Genius" Cristina Rivera Garza and Notre Dame critics Kate Marshall and Dominique Vargas. Professor Rivera Garza recalls roadtripping through Mexico in a bochito (a Volkswagen). For her, such drives became the mother of literary invention: there was no car radio and when family conversations died down, the window (and not an iPhone) became the screen that occupied her. In a more serious vein, CRG, Kate, and Dominique also discuss the role of linguistic mobility and translation in bringing Rivera Garza's novels and essays to English-speaking audiences. CRG reflects on how books change when they cross languages and reminds us that the United States is the second largest Spanish-speaking country in the world. This episode productively estranges us from a number of received narratives about national monolingualism and experimental writing. Professor Rivera Garza rejects the notion of aesthetic individualism and the idealized image of the solitary writer. She declares that language always has plural roots and her work is underpinned by the belief that we only become individuals when community fails. Mentioned in the Episode Juan Rulfo Rosario Castellanos Ramón López Velarde Virginia Woolf Marguerite Duras Suzanne Jill Levine & Aviva Kana, Translators of The Taiga Syndrome Sarah Booker, Translator of Grieving: Dispatches from a Wounded Country Transcript available here. Aarthi Vadde is Associate Professor of English at Duke University. Email: aarthi.vadde@duke.edu. John Plotz is Barbara Mandel Professor of the Humanities at Brandeis University and co-founder of the Brandeis Educational Justice Initiative. Email: plotz@brandeis.edu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

ND stages a trialogue this week with MacArthur "Genius" Cristina Rivera Garza and Notre Dame critics Kate Marshall and Dominique Vargas. Professor Rivera Garza recalls roadtripping through Mexico in a bochito (a Volkswagen). For her, such drives became the mother of literary invention: there was no car radio and when family conversations died down, the window (and not an iPhone) became the screen that occupied her. In a more serious vein, CRG, Kate, and Dominique also discuss the role of linguistic mobility and translation in bringing Rivera Garza's novels and essays to English-speaking audiences. CRG reflects on how books change when they cross languages and reminds us that the United States is the second largest Spanish-speaking country in the world. This episode productively estranges us from a number of received narratives about national monolingualism and experimental writing. Professor Rivera Garza rejects the notion of aesthetic individualism and the idealized image of the solitary writer. She declares that language always has plural roots and her work is underpinned by the belief that we only become individuals when community fails. Mentioned in the Episode Juan Rulfo Rosario Castellanos Ramón López Velarde Virginia Woolf Marguerite Duras Suzanne Jill Levine & Aviva Kana, Translators of The Taiga Syndrome Sarah Booker, Translator of Grieving: Dispatches from a Wounded Country Transcript available here. Aarthi Vadde is Associate Professor of English at Duke University. Email: aarthi.vadde@duke.edu. John Plotz is Barbara Mandel Professor of the Humanities at Brandeis University and co-founder of the Brandeis Educational Justice Initiative. Email: plotz@brandeis.edu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

ND stages a trialogue this week with MacArthur "Genius" Cristina Rivera Garza and Notre Dame critics Kate Marshall and Dominique Vargas. Professor Rivera Garza recalls roadtripping through Mexico in a bochito (a Volkswagen). For her, such drives became the mother of literary invention: there was no car radio and when family conversations died down, the window (and not an iPhone) became the screen that occupied her. In a more serious vein, CRG, Kate, and Dominique also discuss the role of linguistic mobility and translation in bringing Rivera Garza's novels and essays to English-speaking audiences. CRG reflects on how books change when they cross languages and reminds us that the United States is the second largest Spanish-speaking country in the world. This episode productively estranges us from a number of received narratives about national monolingualism and experimental writing. Professor Rivera Garza rejects the notion of aesthetic individualism and the idealized image of the solitary writer. She declares that language always has plural roots and her work is underpinned by the belief that we only become individuals when community fails. Mentioned in the Episode Juan Rulfo Rosario Castellanos Ramón López Velarde Virginia Woolf Marguerite Duras Suzanne Jill Levine & Aviva Kana, Translators of The Taiga Syndrome Sarah Booker, Translator of Grieving: Dispatches from a Wounded Country Transcript available here. Aarthi Vadde is Associate Professor of English at Duke University. Email: aarthi.vadde@duke.edu. John Plotz is Barbara Mandel Professor of the Humanities at Brandeis University and co-founder of the Brandeis Educational Justice Initiative. Email: plotz@brandeis.edu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/literature

ND stages a trialogue this week with MacArthur "Genius" Cristina Rivera Garza and Notre Dame critics Kate Marshall and Dominique Vargas. Professor Rivera Garza recalls roadtripping through Mexico in a bochito (a Volkswagen). For her, such drives became the mother of literary invention: there was no car radio and when family conversations died down, the window (and not an iPhone) became the screen that occupied her. In a more serious vein, CRG, Kate, and Dominique also discuss the role of linguistic mobility and translation in bringing Rivera Garza's novels and essays to English-speaking audiences. CRG reflects on how books change when they cross languages and reminds us that the United States is the second largest Spanish-speaking country in the world. This episode productively estranges us from a number of received narratives about national monolingualism and experimental writing. Professor Rivera Garza rejects the notion of aesthetic individualism and the idealized image of the solitary writer. She declares that language always has plural roots and her work is underpinned by the belief that we only become individuals when community fails. Mentioned in the Episode Juan Rulfo Rosario Castellanos Ramón López Velarde Virginia Woolf Marguerite Duras Suzanne Jill Levine & Aviva Kana, Translators of The Taiga Syndrome Sarah Booker, Translator of Grieving: Dispatches from a Wounded Country Transcript available here. Aarthi Vadde is Associate Professor of English at Duke University. Email: aarthi.vadde@duke.edu. John Plotz is Barbara Mandel Professor of the Humanities at Brandeis University and co-founder of the Brandeis Educational Justice Initiative. Email: plotz@brandeis.edu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/literary-studies

ND stages a trialogue this week with MacArthur "Genius" Cristina Rivera Garza and Notre Dame critics Kate Marshall and Dominique Vargas. Professor Rivera Garza recalls roadtripping through Mexico in a bochito (a Volkswagen). For her, such drives became the mother of literary invention: there was no car radio and when family conversations died down, the window (and not an iPhone) became the screen that occupied her. In a more serious vein, CRG, Kate, and Dominique also discuss the role of linguistic mobility and translation in bringing Rivera Garza's novels and essays to English-speaking audiences. CRG reflects on how books change when they cross languages and reminds us that the United States is the second largest Spanish-speaking country in the world. This episode productively estranges us from a number of received narratives about national monolingualism and experimental writing. Professor Rivera Garza rejects the notion of aesthetic individualism and the idealized image of the solitary writer. She declares that language always has plural roots and her work is underpinned by the belief that we only become individuals when community fails. Mentioned in the Episode Juan Rulfo Rosario Castellanos Ramón López Velarde Virginia Woolf Marguerite Duras Suzanne Jill Levine & Aviva Kana, Translators of The Taiga Syndrome Sarah Booker, Translator of Grieving: Dispatches from a Wounded Country Transcript available here. Aarthi Vadde is Associate Professor of English at Duke University. Email: aarthi.vadde@duke.edu. John Plotz is Barbara Mandel Professor of the Humanities at Brandeis University and co-founder of the Brandeis Educational Justice Initiative. Email: plotz@brandeis.edu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/latino-studies

ND stages a trialogue this week with MacArthur "Genius" Cristina Rivera Garza and Notre Dame critics Kate Marshall and Dominique Vargas. Professor Rivera Garza recalls roadtripping through Mexico in a bochito (a Volkswagen). For her, such drives became the mother of literary invention: there was no car radio and when family conversations died down, the window (and not an iPhone) became the screen that occupied her. In a more serious vein, CRG, Kate, and Dominique also discuss the role of linguistic mobility and translation in bringing Rivera Garza's novels and essays to English-speaking audiences. CRG reflects on how books change when they cross languages and reminds us that the United States is the second largest Spanish-speaking country in the world. This episode productively estranges us from a number of received narratives about national monolingualism and experimental writing. Professor Rivera Garza rejects the notion of aesthetic individualism and the idealized image of the solitary writer. She declares that language always has plural roots and her work is underpinned by the belief that we only become individuals when community fails. Mentioned in the Episode Juan Rulfo Rosario Castellanos Ramón López Velarde Virginia Woolf Marguerite Duras Suzanne Jill Levine & Aviva Kana, Translators of The Taiga Syndrome Sarah Booker, Translator of Grieving: Dispatches from a Wounded Country Transcript available here. Aarthi Vadde is Associate Professor of English at Duke University. Email: aarthi.vadde@duke.edu. John Plotz is Barbara Mandel Professor of the Humanities at Brandeis University and co-founder of the Brandeis Educational Justice Initiative. Email: plotz@brandeis.edu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/latin-american-studies

This week, Lt. Gov. Kate Marshall and Gov. Steve Sisolak's chief of staff Michelle White come on the podcast to talk about stepping down from their roles —  Marshall to take a job at the White House and White to spend more time with her family. Both women talk about their jobs in the government, … Continue reading "Top state officials depart, anti-racism policy in schools, and high gas prices" The post Top state officials depart, anti-racism policy in schools, and high gas prices appeared first on The Nevada Independent.

This week, Lt. Gov. Kate Marshall and Gov. Steve Sisolak's chief of staff Michelle White come on the podcast to talk about stepping down from their roles —  Marshall to take a job at the White House and White to spend more time with her family. Both women talk about their jobs in the government, … Continue reading "Top state officials depart, anti-racism policy in schools, and high gas prices"

This week, Lt. Gov. Kate Marshall and Gov. Steve Sisolak's chief of staff Michelle White come on the podcast to talk about stepping down from their roles —  Marshall to take a job at the White House and White to spend more time with her family. Both women talk about their jobs in the government, … Continue reading "Top state officials depart, anti-racism policy in schools, and high gas prices"

In this episode, I discuss how POWERFUL it can feel when you are proud of your work. Being proud of your work can come from various sources and that zing of excitement and joy has the energy to motivate you to create more! Get that power baby Artist Shoutout this week goes to Kate Marshall, you can find her Instagram here @fromthe_paintshed and www.fromthepaintshed.com.au  I also give a sneaky shout to @elizabethbellceramics who's work inspired the still life artwork that I am proud of! 

We pay tribute to the amazing and talented LGBTQ authors. This is just the tip of the iceberg of authors that represent this community.Shadow Sands (Kate Marshall #2) Published November 3rd 2020 by Thomas & Mercerby Robert Bryndza The internationally bestselling author of Nine Elms and The Girl in the Ice is back with a nail-biting new Kate Marshall case, a woman with a dark secret and a powerful sense of justice.When Kate Marshall finds the bloated body of a young man floating in the Shadow Sands reservoir, the authorities label it a tragic accident.But the details don't add up: why was the victim there, in the middle of the night? If he was such a strong swimmer, how did he drown?Kate is certain there is more to this case than meets the eye. As she and her research assistant Tristan Harper dig deeper, they discover a bloody trail that points towards an active serial killer hiding in plain sight. People have been silently disappearing for years, and when another woman is taken, Kate and Tristan have a matter of days to save her from meeting the same fate.Scarlet Fever ("Sister" Jane #12) Published November 26th 2019 by Ballantine Booksby Rita Mae Brown "Sister" Jane Arnold hopes to play matchmaker, but winds up playing detective when hunting season kicks off with a murder in a riveting mystery from the bestselling author of Homeward Hound.Every fall, the start of hunting season brings crowds of people to Tattenhall Station. "Sister" Jane Arnold has long served as the proud Master of Foxhounds for the Jefferson Hunt, but this year she's noticed a new phenomenon: the men in their hunting scarlets are having an amorous effect on the women in the club. Delighted, she sets her mind to playing matchmaker, but the joys of hunting season are cut short when a body is discovered.Was the death from illness, as everyone, including Sister Jane, is led to assume? She isn't so sure, and soon, with the help of hunters, horses, foxes, and hounds, she uncovers a nefarious scam involving an inheritance--turning this seemingly innocuous death into a murder.Still Life (Inspector Karen Pirie #6) Published October 6th 2020 by Atlantic Monthly by Val McDermidFrom internationally bestselling author Val McDermid comes a propulsive new Karen Pirie thriller that delves into a historic missing persons case, fake identities, and art forgery.When a lobster fisherman discovers a dead body in Scotland's Firth of Forth, Karen is called into investigate. She quickly discovers that the case will require untangling a complicated web—including a historic disappearance, art forgery, and secret identities—that seems to orbit around a painting copyist who can mimic anyone from Holbein to Hockney. Meanwhile, a traffic crash leads to the discovery of a skeleton in a suburban garage. Needless to say, Karen has her plate full. Meanwhile, the man responsible for the death of the love of her life is being released from prison, reopening old wounds just as she was getting back on her feet.Tightly plotted and intensely gripping, Still Life is Val McDermid at her best, and new and longtime readers alike will delight in the latest addition to this superior series.

Golden Oak Medicine is a boutique style primary care practice owned and operated by board certified geriatricians Dr. Golnosh Sharafsaleh and Dr. Kate Marshall. Conveniently located in South Asheville, Golden Oak Medicine serves adults ages 55 years and older. Through a unique holistic approach, their patients enjoy convenient access to their physicians, coordination with specialists, and personalized healthcare that values their individuals goals. In addition, Golden Oak Medicine's physicians are certified dementia practitioners and skilled in cognitive assessments. Drs. Sharafsaleh and Marshall guide their patients to remain healthy, independent, and happy and to maintain the best possible quality of life.Connect with Dr. G and Dr. Kate at https://www.goldenoakmedicine.com/Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/Mittan)

Ashley talks with Kate Marshall, incredible health, wellness, and fitness coach who also wears many other hats, including a supplement brand that inspires women (and men!), her presence on social media, which is nothing short of inspiring as she leads wellness talks, classes and beyond. Kate opens up about the challenges she has with hormonal imbalances, how creating and sticking with her boundaries has been a game-changer in her life. Plus, she shares a 3 step approach to setting boundaries in the notes below. Enjoy!You can follow Kate on IG at @thekatemarshallACE Wellness Pass - Become a whole new you by may! Go to https://theacecollective.com/wellness and enter promo code WINGWOMAN for 15% off your wellness pass purchase.Aura Nutrition - Go to https://youraura.ca/?p=HyGv-Zv48 and enter code WOO15 for %15 off your next purchase.The GOOD Stuff - Try TGS CBD for yourself to get the best wellness in the game use email  - a clear mind and clearer skin for the win. Email: goodsmanco@gmail.com Subject: WOOSAH to access your 3000ml bottle ($100)Enjoy!

Shadow Sands: A Kate Marshall Thriller : By - Robert Bryndza The moors are a perfect hiding place for a serial killer. And a chilling return to the past for nascent private investigator Kate Marshall in a pulse-racing thriller by the author of Nine Elms. Website : https://gobookmart.com/book-review Follow us : Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/GoBookMart1/ Twitter : https://twitter.com/gobookmart2 Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/gobookmart/ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/gobookmart-review/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/gobookmart-review/support

Welcome to Kids Pod, a podcast where kids get to ask adults the questions they really want to know. Nothing is too rude to ask. You send in the questions and our adults will give kids the answers they want to hear. Kate Marshall is a painter and artist. Her pieces are really bright and cheerful and you can check out all her work online at fromthepaintshed.com.au. We are excited to have her as our guest today on Kids Pod. *If you would like to support Kids Pod to allow us to make even more episodes, you can make a one-off donation for as low as $5 at ko-fi.com/kidspod. There's no obligation and Kids Pod will continue to remain free for all. We want to keep Kids Pod going strong well into the future, so we really appreciate any support you can give. From all of us at Kids Pod, thank you.* If you would like Kids Pod to come to your school to conduct a podcasting workshop, contact us at aimeechan.com. We also ask that you please subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes of Kids Pod. And to help other people to find us and spread the word, we would love it if you would give Kids Pod a 5 star rating and share our link with your friends. Kids Pod was created by Aimee Chan on Wiradjuri land. Intro by Niki Strauss. Cover art by Glen Strauss. If you liked this episode of Kids Pod you might also enjoy Episode 9 with cartoonist and illustrator Mitch Vane. Special thanks to Kate Marshall and all the kids from 4ED and 4C. Thanks for listening.

Kate Marshall took seven weeks leave from her job as a kindergarten teacher to homeschool her three children during the first lockdown. What she didn't expect was to rediscover her love of painting and successfully launch her business From The Paint Shed. Leading up to this point, Kate was experiencing a stressful time at work; feeling overwhelmed, overworked and undervalued. The short hiatus gave her that much needed time to pause, reflect, and paint. Kate has since launched a website, grown her social media presence and had her work represented in local homewares stores. She has generated enough interest in her artwork to reduce her days in the classroom to three a week and dedicate two days to her business. Kate shares with us her business journey, the importance of showing up authentically on social media, the success in sticking to a content plan and setting goals, the positive impact her creative passion is having on herself and her family, and so much more. Meet my friend Kate From The Paint Shed. ### Stay social and connect with OAK Magazine on https://www.facebook.com/oakmagazineau (Facebook) and https://www.instagram.com/oakmagazineau (Instagram). For more inspiring stories, visit OAK Magazine https://www.oakmagazine.com.au/ (website). Hosted by Kimberley Furness, Founder + Editor, OAK Magazine. This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/afriendofmine/message This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

ALL VOLLEYBALL PROGRAMS ARE NOT EQUAL FOR AGES 10 AND UNDER!WHAT SEPARATES THE BRING YOUR OWN PARENT (BYOP®) PROGRAM FROM OTHER YOUTH VOLLEYBALL PROGRAMS? Its mission, methods, program and certification of instructors to ensure the consistency in approach for training youth players.The MISSION AND PHILOSOPHY OF THE BRING YOUR OWN PARENT (BYOP®)program is to provide youth who aspire to be the best they can be with the necessary volleyball skills and life lessons to reach their capabilities. This is a FUN Program to be involved with, and it provides the opportunity to instruct young athletes. The BYOP® program may be a player’s and/or parent’s first venture into the sport.

MARY KATE MARSHALL & CHRISTIANA HOLCOMB  Mary Kate Marshall, Collegiate Track Athlete at Idaho State University Christiana Holcomb, Legal Counsel for Alliance Defending Freedom Female Olympians, Title IX pioneers, and more than 300 collegiate and professional athletes submitted a letter to the National College Athletic Association Board of Governors Wednesday, urging them to reject a recent call to boycott Idaho for passing its Fairness in Women’s Sports Act. In the letter, the current and former female athletes state they have benefited personally and professionally “from a fair and level playing field” and urge the NCAA to protect the integrity of women’s sports, consistent with the promise and purpose of Title IX. Signers include world-class athletes cyclist Jennifer Wagner-Assali, track athlete Cynthia Monteleone, and Title IX pioneer and marathon swimmer Sandra Bucha-Kerscher. The coalition supports biology-based eligibility standards for participation in female sports and opposes efforts to bully or boycott the state of Idaho for passing the first state law that prevents males from competing in women’s sports. In May, the American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit, Hecox v. Little, on behalf of a male athlete seeking to challenge Idaho’s newly enacted law. In June, the ACLU and various female athletes called on the NCAA to boycott Idaho. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Short-term vs. long-term. Instant gratification vs. delayed gratification. Tangible vs. meaningful. Today’s workforce is looking for more than free snacks and the occasional gift card. In this #Perks episode of Crafting Culture, co-host Kate Marshall checks in with Erika Westphal, the Leader of Business & People Ops at WorkSpan. The two chat about: The definition of value-driven growth and how it can be implemented Why people have become more interested in meaningful values than tangible ones How to make sure your company values aren’t just living on a wall The #Perks series on Crafting Culture is brought to you by Zestful. Zestful makes daily recognition and rewards a breeze with its consolidated and easy-to-use employee perks platform. To learn more, visit zestful.com/craftingculture. Listen to this and all our other Crafting Culture episodes with Apple Podcast, Spotify, or on our website.

It seems like the whole country is starting to realize that working from home is possible.  Companies that at one point refused to allow employees to work from home are now realizing that not only is it possible, but can be beneficial.  On the most recent episode of Crafting Culture,we give you 10 actual, real-life health benefits of a flexible #WFH policy. We talk all about:  Why an inclusive workplace is crucial to productivity How much money companies lose annually due to lost productivity from mental health complications How a flexible WFH policy cuts down on pollution and greenhouse gas emissions To listen to this episode and many more like it, subscribe to Crafting Culture on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or follow along on our website.  

There’s only one you in the world. We’re told this from a young age. “Embrace your YOUniqueness.” Why, then, do we assume every group in our organization operates the same way? In this #Perks episode of Crafting Culture, co-host Kate Marshall catches up with Head of HR at Sendoso, Jennifer Knowles. Kate and Jennifer discuss: How to honor the uniqueness of each organizational department Why celebrating our differences matters Living and breathing your core values while accepting departmental differences The #Perks series on Crafting Culture is brought to you by Zestful. Zestful makes daily recognition and rewards a breeze with its consolidated and easy-to-use employee perks platform. To learn more, visit zestful.com/craftingculture. Listen to this and all our other Crafting Culture episodes with Apple Podcast, Spotify, or on our website.  

Employee perks do NOT take the place of salary. They simply add to the appeal of your workplace. In this #perks episode of Crafting Culture, co-host Kate Marshall expounds upon the value of well-implemented perks programs. She discusses: Perks younger generations of employees are interested in Mistakes to avoid when implementing an employee perks program How to help employees take advantage of available perks The #Perks series on Crafting Culture is brought to you by Zestful. Zestful makes daily recognition and rewards a breeze with its consolidated and easy-to-use employee perks platform. To learn more, visit zestful.com/craftingculture. Listen to this and all our other Crafting Culture episodes with Apple Podcast, Spotify, or on our website.  

Where is the line between company culture and just doing business?  Even if it’s a little blurry, there has to be one. Right? After all, you can’t spare someone’s feelings at the expense of the entire company. To explore this paradox further, co-host Kate Marshall of Zestful catches up with Liz Ratto, the head of people at Cedar, Inc. The two discuss: Building a nurturing environment at a startup Navigating the reality of a startup while still catering to its employees Developing a culture that normalizes feedback, growth, and change The #Perks series on Crafting Culture is brought to you by Zestful. Zestful makes daily recognition and rewards a breeze with its consolidated and easy-to-use employee perks platform. To learn more, visit zestful.com/craftingculture. Listen to this and all our other Crafting Culture episodes with Apple Podcast, Spotify, or on our website.

Being part of a new company can be a very ambiguous time. No one’s really telling you what to do — you just hopefully make the right decision. Many times there’s not an established HR role. How do you make sure you’re developing a positive work culture that helps your organization grow? In this #perk episode of Crafting Culture, co-host Kate Marshall catches up with CADRE’s Culture & Events Manager, Catie Case. Catie is one all too familiar with pulling a company’s culture out of — essentially — thin air. The two discuss: Growing in your career as your company also grows. Getting people involved in new work culture initiatives. Coming up with creative culture ideas for your specific organization. The #perk series is co-hosted by Kate Marshall, Head of Content at Zestful. Zestful makes daily recognition and rewards a breeze with its consolidated and easy-to-use employee perks platform. To learn more, visit zestful.com/craftingculture. To listen to this episode and many more like it, subscribe to Crafting Culture on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or follow along on our website.

In the age of remote workers, off-site employees are looking for perks just like on-site team members. But it’s not as easy to engage remote employees with catered lunches or office happy hours. In this #perks episode of Crafting Culture, co-host Kate Marshall of Zestful encourages HR leaders to get creative with perks for remote employees. She also discusses: Examples of creative perks for remote teams What perks modern employees are expecting from their work Why workplaces need to be more flexible today The perk series is co-hosted by Kate Marshall, Head of Content at Zestful. Zestful makes daily recognition and rewards a breeze with its consolidated and easy-to-use employee perks platform. To learn more, visit zestful.com/craftingculture. To listen to this episode and many more like it, subscribe to Crafting Culture on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or follow along on our website.

In addition to writing crime fiction, He has published a bestselling series of romantic comedy novels. His new novel, Nine Elms, the first in my Kate Marshall private detective series has just been published. Author of the international #1 bestseller THE GIRL IN THE ICE, which is the first in his Detective Erika Foster series, and to date, it has sold over one million copies. There are six books in the Erika Foster series.Kate Marshall was a promising young police detective when she caught the notorious Nine Elms serial killer. But her greatest victory suddenly turned into a nightmare. Traumatized, betrayed, and publicly vilified for the shocking circumstances surrounding the cannibal murder case, Kate could only watch as her career ended in scandal.Fifteen years after those catastrophic events, Kate is still haunted by the unquiet ghosts of her troubled past. Now a lecturer at a small coastal English university, she finally has a chance to face them. A copycat killer has taken up the Nine Elms mantle, continuing the ghastly work of his idol.Enlisting her brilliant research assistant, Tristan Harper, Kate draws on her prodigious and long-neglected skills as an investigator to catch a new monster. Success promises redemption, but there’s much more on the line: Kate was the original killer’s intended fifth victim…and his successor means to finish the job.

This week on Crafting Culture, Kate Marshall tells us about the importance of having a strong perk program for your company in order to invest in your employees and retain your best leaders.  She reminds us that not only is a perk program an essential part of your organization, but that picking the right one that fits your team is just as vital. Check out the episode! The Perks Series on Crafting Culture is brought to you by Zestful. Zestful makes daily recognition and rewards a breeze with its consolidated and easy-to-use employee perks platform. To learn more, visit zestful.com/craftingculture. Kate Marshall is the Head of Content at Zestful. You can find other episodes of Crafting Culture here.  

ABOUT THE AUTHOR Robert Bryndza is also the author of the Detective Erika Foster series, which includes the #1 international bestseller The Girl in the Ice, as well as The Night Stalker, Dark Water, Last Breath, Cold Blood, and Deadly Secrets. He has sold over 3 million copies of his books and been translated into 28 languages. In addition to writing crime fiction, Robert has published a bestselling series of romantic comedies. He is British and lives in Slovakia with his husband. Visit his website at www.robertbryndza.com Twitter & Instagram @RobertBryndza #RobertBryndza Facebook: www.facebook.com/BryndzaRobert/ ABOUT THE BOOK - NINE ELMS Inspired by the complex and psychologically twisted relationship between Clarice Starling and Dr. Hannibal Lecter in Thomas Harris's The Silence of the Lambs, Bryndza explores the relationship between a heroine and a charming psychopath—who are devastatingly linked. Kate Marshall is a former police detective and recovering alcoholic, who fifteen years later, is still haunted by the scandal that clouded her victorious capture of the notorious Nine Elms serial killer and ended her career. Now a lecturer at a small coastal English university, she's doing her best to take care of her young son but, given her traumatic past, she must lean on her mother for assistance. Her quiet life is shattered when a copycat takes up the work of the Nine Elms killer, and more bodies turn up under eerily familiar circumstances. Kate enlists her brilliant research assistant, Tristan Harper, and draws on her prodigious and long-neglected skills to catch this new monster. Rules that constricted her as a police detective no longer apply in the private sector. Unwavering in her pursuit, she hopes success will bring redemption, but much more is at stake. Kate was the original killer's intended fifth victim—and his successor is determined to finish the job.

When was the last time your CEO gave you a round of applause for sending an email?  Never? That’s what I thought.  But as silly as it sounds for a CEO to walk around clapping for everybody, what if that kind of attitude is EXACTLY what companies need?  To acknowledge BEHAVIORS instead of just OUTCOMES?  Kate Marshall was on a recent episode of the Crafting Culture podcast, and talked about The link between incentives and productivity,  Why a simple “thank you” might just be what your culture needs, and  The three things you can look for as a CEO or leader to instill this culture at your organization.  The Perks Series on Crafting Culture is brought to you by Zestful. Zestful makes daily recognition and rewards a breeze with its consolidated and easy-to-use employee perks platform. To learn more, visit zestful.com/craftingculture. Listen to this and all our other Crafting Culture episodes with Apple Podcast, Spotify, or our website.  

Kate Marshall sits down to talk about the lessons she learned from studying and becoming a Registered Nurse. Kate breaks down what the nursing test questions are like, how to study for it properly and what books are the best to read for col facts. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.

Kate Marshall, Author, Executive Coach, Speaker and Facilitator by Mastering Your Craft Podcast

Episode 20 Wow, 20 episodes down ! I can't think of a better person to celebrate 20 episodes with than Kate Marshall! Kate and I met through yoga (I used to sub at her studio that she owned) a few years ago, and I have always fan girl-ed over her! She is such an amazing […]

While the narratives around the latest developments about the Mueller Report keep spinning in Washington, work across the rest of the country hasn’t stopped. To talk about those daily efforts, Daniella and Ed are joined in the studio this week by two lieutenant governors – Juliana Stratton of Illinois, and Kate Marshall of Nevada. Free from the distractions of inside the Beltway gossip, Stratton and Marshall speak about the challenges and pursuits that drive their busy schedules. The pair of public servants have the unique task of focusing on how to balance and address the needs of constituents living in their state’s dominating urban cores – Chicago and Las Vegas – as well as in the dozens of rural counties that accompany them. In addition to describing some of their biggest responsibilities, like presiding over the Nevada State Senate – as Marshall does – or leading Illinois’s Justice, Equity and Opportunity Initiative – as Stratton does – the lieutenant governors also pitch the best parts of their state. Everyone knows though that few things can beat D.C. during peak cherry blossom bloom.

Corridors: We spend our lives moving through hallways and corridors, yet these channelling spaces do not feature in architectural histories. They are overlooked and undervalued. Laurie talks to Roger Luckhurst, Professor of Modern Literature at Birkbeck, University of London, whose new book charts the origins and meaning of the corridor, from country houses and utopian communities in the eighteenth centuries, through reformist Victorian prisons to the "corridors of power," as well as their often fearful depiction in popular culture. They’re joined by Kate Marshall, Associate Professor of English at the University of Notre Dame and author of a study of the intriguing place of the corridor in modernist literature. Producer: Jayne Egerton

Non-human, post-human, anti-human. In recent years, historians, political theorists, philosophers and others have increasingly tried to think beyond an anthropocentric perspective to gain insights on a wide range of questions. But these ways of thinking have a long precedent in American fiction. In this podcast, NHC Fellow Kate Marshall, associate professor of English at the University of Notre Dame, discusses how weird fiction, cosmic realism, and pseudo-science fiction have imaginatively grappled with non-human points of view from the late 19th century to the present.

Kate and I met almost a year ago when I was looking for documentary work to add to my editing reel. What transpired was an affectionate friendship between myself, her, and her business partner Camilla Alvarado who I'm sure I'll interview in the future but right now we're talking about Kate.  In this interview we investigate three fictional characters that describe me best, my perpetual victimhood, and my righteous passive aggression. I think we're off to a great start!

Guests Include: Raquel Smith, Financial Aid Advisor for UNLV (University of Nevada Las Vegas) Nevada State Treasurer Kate Marshall.  Kate Marshall was first elected State Treasurer in 2006 and re-elected to second term in 2010. She originally ran on a platform she called the “Marshall Plan,” which included seven main points she would emphasize during her tenure.  The basic tenets were simple: Improve and implement programs that save taxpayer dollars; reduce spending by becoming more efficient; and identify innovative methods for increasing economic development in our state.  By the conclusion of her first term, six of these covenants had been met, with the seventh being achieved with the creation of the state’s first private equity investment fund during the 2011 Legislative Session.A crowning achievement of her term as State Treasurer is the successful sponsorship and passage of Senate Bill 75 during the 2011 Legislative Session, which created the Nevada Capital Investment Corporation and the Silver State Opportunity Fund.  The goal of the $50 million Silver State Opportunity Fund is to capitalize on investment opportunities in Nevada in order to increase funding for Nevada’s K-12 schools, while at the same time spurring economic development and job growth. A minimum of 70% of investments must be made in businesses located in Nevada, looking to expand in Nevada, or in businesses wishing to relocate in Nevada.   Earnings from the fund go to Nevada’s K-12 schools.  To date, commitments have been made to three private equity funds, which have located offices in Nevada.College Scholarship Expert 

Guests Include: Raquel Smith, Financial Aid Advisor for UNLV (University of Nevada Las Vegas) Nevada State Treasurer Kate Marshall.  Kate Marshall was first elected State Treasurer in 2006 and re-elected to second term in 2010. She originally ran on a platform she called the “Marshall Plan,” which included seven main points she would emphasize during her tenure.  The basic tenets were simple: Improve and implement programs that save taxpayer dollars; reduce spending by becoming more efficient; and identify innovative methods for increasing economic development in our state.  By the conclusion of her first term, six of these covenants had been met, with the seventh being achieved with the creation of the state’s first private equity investment fund during the 2011 Legislative Session.A crowning achievement of her term as State Treasurer is the successful sponsorship and passage of Senate Bill 75 during the 2011 Legislative Session, which created the Nevada Capital Investment Corporation and the Silver State Opportunity Fund.  The goal of the $50 million Silver State Opportunity Fund is to capitalize on investment opportunities in Nevada in order to increase funding for Nevada’s K-12 schools, while at the same time spurring economic development and job growth. A minimum of 70% of investments must be made in businesses located in Nevada, looking to expand in Nevada, or in businesses wishing to relocate in Nevada.   Earnings from the fund go to Nevada’s K-12 schools.  To date, commitments have been made to three private equity funds, which have located offices in Nevada.College Scholarship Expert 

See Jane Do sets out to discover how women’s economic influence can create positive change and the steps we need to take to feel more confident around our purchase power. We feature interviews with several extraordinary women including, Maddy Dychtwald, author of Influence: How Women’s Soaring Economic Power Will Transform Our World for the Better, best selling author, Riane Eisler who is creating ways to implement a new economy, Nevada State Treasurer, Kate Marshall and Gina Robison-Billups, founder of The National Association for Moms in Business and Moms Making a Million.